Podcasts about CRO

Favour Obasi-ike, MBA, MS breaks down website anatomy, emphasizing that a "pretty" site is useless if it doesn't function technically. He explains the psychology of website navigation, detailing three types of scrolling: eye paths, scroll paths, and decision zones. Guest speakers advocate for starting with a simple, high-converting one-page website on platforms like Wix, rather than getting overwhelmed by complex builds. The conversation also covers the importance of proper logo linking, customized social media icons, and integrating live chat to reduce friction and boost sales.>>

The marketing funnel you've built your whole strategy around? It never described how people actually buy. It was a tidy oversimplification, and in a world of zero-click search and AI-saturated channels, it's never held up worse.In this episode, Amber sits down with Udi Ledergor — Gong's first marketer, now Chief Evangelist, author of Courageous Marketing, and the guy who ran a Super Bowl ad and coined a category on the way to $500M in ARR.Udi's argument cuts against the "hack-everything" reflex of modern GTM: brand isn't a vibe, it's trust, and trust is the only thing that makes a buyer go straight to you instead of crawling through a funnel. What this episode covers:Why brand comes down to one thing, trust, and how raving fans replace the funnel entirelyThe unconventional bets behind Gong's brand: the Super Bowl spot, the bulldog, the 2021 enterprise rebrandWhy Courageous Marketing never mentions AI on purpose, and what makes a marketing principle timelessThe two-headed dragon: what actually fixes sales and marketing alignment (hint: do you know how your CRO takes their coffee?)Why a marketing team not working from the same data as sales is committing a crime against its own companyHow AI agents now prove marketing's hard impactThis episode unpacks exactly why the companies winning right now are the ones people demand their employer buy.-----------------------------------------------------

What if the wrong turn that changed your life wasn't even yours to take? In this episode, Justin Gray, serial entrepreneur and Managing Partner at In Revenue Capital, shares how five exits worth more than $500 million in enterprise value all trace back to one unexpected introduction at a Phoenix bar. His girlfriend at the time ran into a founder, turned down a job offer, and said: talk to my boyfriend instead. That detour led Justin to employee number six at a fintech startup, his first liquidity event, and everything that followed. Today he invests in early stage B2B vertical SaaS companies, not just with capital but with his team's hands deep in the work alongside founders every single day.   [00:03:30] What He Does and Who He Serves Serial entrepreneur with five successful exits worth over $500 million in enterprise value Managing partner at In Revenue Capital, an early stage B2B vertical SaaS venture fund Invests at seed and Series A with a hands-on operator-immersive model Two portfolio companies have already exited since the firm launched in 2023 [00:05:00] How He Got Here Wanted to be a writer in college; pivoted to business and marketing when the money wasn't there Left school four credits shy of a degree; graduated into the post-September 11th job market Took a string of marketing jobs he hated; became a self-taught Swiss Army knife of go-to-market Frustrated by the siloed, arts-and-crafts lane that marketing was stuck in [00:08:00] The Startup That Changed Everything Joined a five-person payments startup in 2006 as employee number six Took three to four months to evaluate the decision; it turned out to be the best of his life Grew the company from roughly $1 million to $294 million in annual revenue Cashed out his equity and went on to found four more bootstrapped companies [00:13:30] What Inspires Him: Upleveling People Running a services firm taught him that people are the most important asset in any business Created a phantom equity program at LeadMD; half the enterprise value went to employees at exit Over a third of those employees have since gone on to start their own companies The freedom to build something is what most people need; liquidity is the key that unlocks it [00:17:30] How In Revenue Capital Actually Works Does not maintain a traditional venture fund; operates under a fundless sponsor SPV model Flies into new portfolio companies for a day and a half workshop after closing Builds a three-pillar assessment framework using market data, portfolio benchmarks, and AI One firm partner is currently serving as CRO for a portfolio company full time [00:23:30] What the Engagement Looks Like Day to Day Founders have the team on Slack, email, and phone; communication is always on Helps with hiring, messaging, pricing, customer success, CRM rollouts, and deal cycles If there is one thing that creates outsized value, it is helping founders hire the right people Knowing what great looks like at each stage is context most first-time founders don't have [00:28:30] The Relationship That Changed Everything: The Founder at the Bar His girlfriend ran into a founder at the Coach House bar in Phoenix; a disagreement led to an apology The founder offered her a job; she declined and said: my boyfriend hates his job, talk to him That introduction led to the payments startup, the first liquidity event, and everything after Without that random bar encounter, Justin says he would still be sitting in a cubicle [00:33:30] The Painful Lesson That Came With It The same founder later invested in two of Justin's subsequent companies out of shared camaraderie Their definitions of success were completely different; misalignment became costly and painful Justin had to buy the founder's half back at multiple seven figures he didn't have earmarked for that The lesson: alignment on goals, exit paths, and vision must come before any partnership [00:38:30] Final Word: Unscalable Things Drive Success Hosts the Cheat Code and Friends podcast with relationships-driven conversations Published The GTM Cheat Code in February 2025; a national bestseller about doing unscalable things All of In Revenue Capital's deal flow comes through venture partners who trust the team The model: provide value to partners first and the doors open on their own   KEY QUOTES "The sixth ingredient that builds a great tech ecosystem, more important than all the others, is context. You have to know what great looks like." - Justin Gray "Everyone thinks they need to only do things that scale. But if you create a culture of hyper value, reward first and revenue second, the relationships open every door." - Justin Gray CONNECT WITH JUSTIN GRAY Website: https://www.inrevenue.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/inrevenue   Thanks for tuning in! If you liked my show, please LEAVE A 5-STAR REVIEW, like, and subscribe! Find me on: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | iHeart Radio | Stitcher

Join us for a special episode hosted by Geoff Campbell who is standing in for Matt Bertram, we focus on the part of marketing most teams ignore: turning existing traffic into real phone calls, form fills, and sales. We break down a simple conversion framework, why dynamic website messaging works, and how to think about proof, positioning, and AI search as buyer behavior changes. • traffic times conversion rate equals customers as the core lens for SEO and CRO • treating an agency website as proof of competence and a trust signal • the “practice what you preach” mistake that costs agencies better clients • the reality of wearing every hat and why teams and cash flow matter • productizing a service into SaaS by solving our own lead generation problem • fixing the “blocked toilet” problem before buying more traffic • answering four questions fast: who you are, what you do, why choose you, how to contact you • using dynamic messaging by time, intent, and customer situation to lift conversions • adding specials, testimonials, video, and clear calls to action without clutter • building attribution with codes and tracking to learn what really drives leads • scaling SaaS with proof first, then outbound, ads, and partner channels • narrowing the ICP to high-traffic, lead-driven, high-value businesses • using design and presuasion to match the buyer you want • simplifying pages like a movie teaser so skimmers become readers • watching AI search emerge as a new visibility layer on top of SEO Guest Contact Information: Website: irwinhau.comLinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/irwinhauInstagram: instagram.com/haudoyoudoMore from EWR and Matthew:Leave us a review wherever you listen: Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or Amazon PodcastFree SEO Consultation: www.ewrdigital.com/discovery-callWith over 5 million downloads, The Best SEO Podcast has been the go-to show for digital marketers, business owners, and entrepreneurs wanting real-world strategies to grow online. Now, host Matthew Bertram — creator of the LLM Visibility Stack™, and Lead Strategist at EWR Digital — takes the conversation beyond traditional SEO into the AI era of discoverability. Each week, Matthew dives into the tactics, frameworks, and insights that matter most in a world where search engines, large language models, and answer engines are reshaping how people find, trust, and choose businesses. From SEO and AI-driven marketing to executive-level growth strategy, you'll hear expert interviews, deep-dive discussions, and actionable strategies to help you stay ahead of the curve. Find more episodes here: youtube.com/@BestSEOPodcastbestseopodcast.combestseopodcast.buzzsprout.comFollow us on:Facebook: @bestseopodcastInstagram: @thebestseopodcastTiktok: @bestseopodcastLinkedIn: @bestseopodcastConnect With Matthew Bertram: Website: www.matthewbertram.comInstagram: @matt_bertram_liveLinkedIn: @mattbertramlivePowered by: ewrdigital.comSupport the show

Most brands expand into the US and treat it like the same business with a different shipping label. Outway learned it is not.Taylor Fraser is the Chief Growth Officer at Outway, the Canadian performance sock brand. In this episode he breaks down why Outway now runs Canada and the US as two distinct businesses, why he dropped retargeting on Meta entirely, and why a sub eight-figure brand cannot optimize its website to growth.What you'll learn:Why Outway swapped the CMO role for a Chief Growth Officer and split growth into performance, retention, and e-commerceWhy Canadian and US customers buy so differently, and how Outway split the two businesses on the backend and frontendWhy the team runs no retargeting and lets the algorithm handle itWhy simple store-wide discounts beat clever BOGO offers, and why the mystery pair became a "golden handcuffs" attachWhy you cannot CRO your way to growth under a certain revenue line, and what to do insteadWhy Outway rides external moments like Mother's Day and Prime Day instead of manufacturing its own salesHow the team uses AI daily for reporting, data pulls, and custom dashboardsWho this is for: DTC operators, growth and performance marketers, and founders selling across more than one country.What to steal: the two-businesses framework for cross-border selling, and the decision to stop manufacturing fake sales and ride moments customers already care about.Timestamps:00:00 Meta Doesn't Need Retargeting Campaigns13:06 How Andromeda Changed Meta Ads18:11 The Creative Volume Debate21:08 Why Scaling in the U.S. Is Harder Than Canada35:20 Why More Ads Beat CRO for GrowthSubscribe to DTC Newsletter - https://dtcnews.link/signupAdvertise on DTC - https://dtcnews.link/advertiseWork with Pilothouse - https://dtcnews.link/pilothouseFollow us on Instagram & Twitter - @dtcnewsletterWatch this interview on YouTube - https://dtcnews.link/video

Neste episódio do Vamos de Vendas, Gustavo Pagotto recebe Hiram Damin, CRO da B2B Stack e uma das maiores referências em Customer Success da América Latina, para uma conversa sobre como transformar dados em ações práticas para aumentar retenção, expansão de receita e rentabilidade dos clientes.Ao longo do episódio, Hiram explica por que muitas empresas ainda olham apenas para aquisição de clientes enquanto ignoram a principal fonte de crescimento sustentável: a própria carteira. Ele mostra como estruturar uma operação de Customer Success do zero, quais dados buscar primeiro, quais métricas realmente importam e como evitar o erro de acumular dashboards sem gerar mudanças reais no negócio.A conversa também aborda temas como churn, lifetime value, ICP, Health Score, onboarding, Voice of Customer e o papel do CRM na gestão da jornada do cliente. Hiram compartilha exemplos práticos sobre integração entre vendas, financeiro e Customer Success, além de explicar como identificar clientes com maior potencial de retenção e expansão usando dados confiáveis.

Stephen Halasnik, Managing Partner of Financing Solutions, speaks with nonprofit leaders and finance professionals about the real-world financial challenges organizations face, including nonprofit cash flow gaps, funding delays, working capital shortages, and the need for stronger fundraising decisions. In this conversation, Shahar Brukner, Founder and CRO of Impala, explains why having more fundraising data does not automatically lead to better fundraising outcomes and how nonprofits can turn information into actionable intelligence.  

Subscribe to DTC Newsletter - https://dtcnews.link/signupBraydon from Pilothouse joins for a fast AI check-in on what the team is actually shipping right now. Not theory. The exact tools, prompts, and workflows behind their current creative output.If you run growth or creative at a DTC brand or agency, this is a look at how one team is collapsing production time on landing pages, video ads, and founder content using AI.The sub-agent "council" prompt: rewrite a landing page eight ways, with each sub-agent playing a role (copywriter, CEO, customer, CRO expert), then have the council rate the versions and a final decision maker pick the winner.How to keep Claude fast on long projects: ask the chat to summarize itself into a markdown file, then carry that into a fresh chat instead of letting one thread balloon.Higgsfield as a model aggregator: one place to run VO3, Kling, ElevenLabs, and image models, with one-click image-to-video and multiple aspect ratios.The founder avatar workflow: build a 30-second explainer with B-roll and slow zooms, clone the founder's voice in ElevenLabs, and ship it the same afternoon.Why Braydon leans into obviously-AI creative (claymation, Pixar-style) instead of trying to pass synthetic people as real.How Meta's Andromeda rewards ads that improve the scroll, and why social boosting organic winners is finding new scale.Who this is for:DTC operators, growth marketers, and agency creative leads who want a current, practical AI workflow rather than a hype reel.What to steal:The sub-agent council prompt, the Higgsfield image-to-video and voice-clone pipeline, and the social boosting approach to finding ad winners.Timestamps:00:29 Fable AI and One-Shot Development06:54 Higgsfield for AI Creative Production10:33 New AI Advertising Disclosure Rules13:15 AI Search, SEO, and Answer Engines14:33 How Andromeda Rewards Better Ad ExperiencesSubscribe to DTC Newsletter - https://dtcnews.link/signupAdvertise on DTC - https://dtcnews.link/advertiseWork with Pilothouse - https://www.pilothouse.co/?utm_source=AKNF621Follow us on Instagram & Twitter - @dtcnewsletterWatch this interview on YouTube - https://dtcnews.link/video

Enterprise AI buying has moved quickly, but durable adoption still depends on context, security, workflow fit, and measurable business impact. Daniel Simon, Enterprise Account Executive at Glean, joins John Kaplan and John McMahon to discuss what it takes to sell AI in complex enterprise environments, why multi-threading matters more when buyers are evaluating broad organizational change, and how strong sellers build trust by tying use cases to productivity, governance, and ROI instead of relying on product excitement alone. Daniel Simon is an Enterprise Account Executive at Glean, where he works with large enterprises on AI adoption, knowledge discovery, and productivity across complex organizations. He brings experience selling enterprise technology into multi-stakeholder buying environments. Connect with Dan: LinkedIn Resources mentioned: The Qualified Sales Leader by by John McMahon  The Go-Giver by by Bob Burg  Key takeaways from this episode:  00:00 – Introduction 02:40 – What it really takes to move from product fluency to business impact in enterprise sales. 06:35 – Why many sellers mistake a strong champion for a qualified enterprise deal. 08:47 – A look inside how AI can expose qualification gaps without replacing sales fundamentals. 18:12 – What leaders often overlook about context as the real differentiator in enterprise AI. 30:51 – Why face-to-face engagement quietly creates leverage in a crowded AI market. 42:58 – Dan Simon's perspective on why consumption-based pricing raises the bar for customer success. 57:12 – Why AI will amplify strong sales discipline and expose weak execution. Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results. This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale. Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

No Linha de Passe desta quarta (16), nossos comentaristas analisam tudo de Neymar em campo no treino de hoje da Seleção Brasileira, tudo sobre a estreia de Cristiano Ronaldo na Copa do Mundo, com o empate de Portugal e ainda tem o JOGAÇO entre Inglaterra x Croácia. Vem com a gente! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

O acordo de paz com os Estados Unidos prevê uma ajuda bilionária ao Irã e a renúncia a armas nucleares. As principais economias do mundo cobraram das empresas de tecnologia mais controle nas redes sociais. O presidente da Câmara admitiu que viajou em jatinho de Daniel Vorcaro, a convite de Ciro Nogueira. O Banco Central reduziu a taxa de juros pela terceira vez seguida. A Copa do Mundo ferveu com a estreia dos astros do futebol. Harry Kane marcou duas vezes na vitória da Inglaterra sobre a Croácia. Cristiano Ronaldo decepcionou no empate entre Portugal e a República Democrática do Congo. A Argentina enlouqueceu com a atuação inesquecível do craque Messi. Enquanto isso, em Nova Jersey, Neymar treinou com a Seleção.

01. Calvin Harris & Jazzy - Satisfy 02. Meduza & Rani - Silence 03. Cat Dealers Feat. Ceres - Test Drive 04. C - Ro, Don Bnnr - Welcome To The Club 05. Oliver Heldens & Sam Harper - Satisfy 06. Micah & Elyff - Move Ya Body 07. Rich Cardix - Up & Down 08. DJ Antoine - Work Your P 09. Dubdogz, Zaark - Stolen Dance 10. Benny Benassi & Dualite - California Dreamin 11. Jon X Juste X Jaxstyle - Turn The Lights Off (Afrojack Remix) 12. Jake Dile X DJ Baur - Fantasy 13. Global Deejays - Sex on the Streets 14. Robin Schulz & Marten Horger - Arizona 15. Disco Lines X Maesic Feat. Mason & Princess Superstar - Push It (extended Mix) 16. Inntraw, Sarah De Warren & Ej3000 - Someone's Bitch 17. Mariz, Moonphazes, Mikaa - Watch It (Original Mix) 18. Ofenbach, Starsailor - Four To The Floor (Extended Version) 19. Yves V & Chester Young X Suburbia - On The Mic 20. Skytech & Mentum - Concrete Jungle 21. Armin Van Buuren - Let The Music Guide You (ReOrder pres.Crowd+ctrl Extended Remix) 22. Kryder - Eivissa

Before working with MEDDICC, Microlise's sales forecast accuracy sat at 25%. Today it's 85%.In this episode, MEDDICC CEO Andy Whyte sits down with Mike Blackburn, CRO at Microlise, to find out what actually changed. Not just the numbers, but the language, the culture, and the mindset that comes with knowing your forecast is real.Mike shares how he went from dismissing MEDDIC when he first encountered it to becoming one of its biggest advocates, and what it took to embed it across a GTM team in a way that actually stuck.You'll learn:✅ Why Mike resisted MEDDIC early in his career and what changed his mind✅ How Microlise used MEDDPICC as a common language across the full GTM team✅ What great deal reviews actually look like vs the ones that are just concealing weaknesses✅ How to identify and test a true Champion✅ What it takes to stand out early in a sales career

I sat down with Malte Landwehr, who left VP of SEO at Idealo to become CPO and CMO at Peec AI, the platform that tracks what ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and Google AI Overviews actually cite. We open on the strangest finding of the year. GummySearch, a Reddit analytics tool that shut down last November, now sits behind about 0.1% of all ChatGPT citations. From there we get into why clicks are the wrong way to measure AI search, why your local brand keeps losing to US ones, why scaled AI content rockets then crashes, and why Malte says SEO is dead as a default growth channel.Guest ProfileMalte Landwehr is CPO and CMO at Peec AI, an AI search visibility platform that runs daily prompts across ChatGPT, Perplexity, Gemini, Google AI Overviews, Claude, and Grok. He spent more than twenty years in search and product, including five years as VP of SEO at Idealo and five years as VP of Product at Searchmetrics. In his first six months at Peec AI, the company grew from roughly $500K to $5M in ARR.Chapters[0:00] Intro[1:15] Leaving one of Europe's best SEO jobs for AI search[5:07] Why clicks are the wrong way to measure ChatGPT[8:22] Which answer engines actually matter[12:34] GummySearch: a dead product winning ChatGPT citations[18:33] Listicles and the English-language fan-out bias[23:48] Advertorials, local results, and Mount AI content[33:50] Digital PR over technical SEO[36:27] ChatGPT Shopping is scraped Google Shopping, and the MCP contest[42:16] SEO is dead as a default channel, and the chunking moveKey TakeawaysStop measuring AI search by clicks. In an LLM, clicking is optional, so ChatGPT can look like 1% of your traffic while shaping most of your buying journeys. Measure the influence on the decision, not the visit.What gets written about you offsite now matters more than your own technical SEO. Grounding pulls from Reddit, G2, Wikipedia, YouTube, and news, so digital PR is the bigger lever for how AI describes and recommends you.One citable paragraph beats a chunked article. Put your main claim near the top in two or three declarative, self-contained sentences that name the entities. Do not shred a whole article into one-line bullets.Notable Quotes"In a web search, clicking is part of the intended user journey. In an LLM, clicking is completely optional." Malte Landwehr"They didn't gain visibility as a brand. They now have power over what brands are recommended by LLMs." Malte Landwehr, on GummySearchResourcesPeec AI: https://peec.aiPeec AI research blog: https://peec.ai/blogMalte Landwehr's website: https://www.maltelandwehr.deFuture of AI Shopping webinar with Malte Landwehr (Peec AI): https://peec.ai/webinars/future-of-ai-shoppingConnectMalte Landwehr on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/landwehr/Peec AI: https://peec.aiNo Hacks is a publication about the agentic web. Articles, a weekly podcast, and a newsletter for SEO, CRO, and web professionals who want to stay visible, trusted, and findable as agents take over. Hosted by Slobodan "Sani" Manic.Subscribe at https://nohacks.co/subscribe

01. Calvin Harris & Jazzy - Satisfy 02. Meduza & Rani - Silence 03. Cat Dealers Feat. Ceres - Test Drive 04. C - Ro, Don Bnnr - Welcome To The Club 05. Oliver Heldens & Sam Harper - Satisfy 06. Micah & Elyff - Move Ya Body 07. Rich Cardix - Up & Down 08. DJ Antoine - Work Your P 09. Dubdogz, Zaark - Stolen Dance 10. Benny Benassi & Dualite - California Dreamin 11. Jon X Juste X Jaxstyle - Turn The Lights Off (Afrojack Remix) 12. Jake Dile X DJ Baur - Fantasy 13. Global Deejays - Sex on the Streets 14. Robin Schulz & Marten Horger - Arizona 15. Disco Lines X Maesic Feat. Mason & Princess Superstar - Push It (extended Mix) 16. Inntraw, Sarah De Warren & Ej3000 - Someone's Bitch 17. Mariz, Moonphazes, Mikaa - Watch It (Original Mix) 18. Ofenbach, Starsailor - Four To The Floor (Extended Version) 19. Yves V & Chester Young X Suburbia - On The Mic 20. Skytech & Mentum - Concrete Jungle 21. Armin Van Buuren - Let The Music Guide You (ReOrder pres.Crowd+ctrl Extended Remix) 22. Kryder - Eivissa

Ócáid bhailiúcháin airgid á heagrú ar mhaithe le Croílíne Chois Fharraige.

In this episode of Hunters & Unicorns, hosts Simon Kouttis and Ollie Kuehne sit down with Olivier Zieleniecki, Global Vice President of Partners at MongoDB, to discuss why the future of enterprise sales will be built around partnerships, ecosystems, and AI. As cloud marketplaces, hyperscalers, and AI continue reshaping how software is bought and sold, Olivier explains why traditional sales frameworks are no longer enough on their own. The next generation of sales leaders must learn how to leverage partner ecosystems, build strategic alliances, and create value beyond a single product or transaction. Drawing on nearly 20 years of enterprise software experience, Olivier shares how MongoDB scaled through partner-led growth, why partnerships are becoming a force multiplier for revenue, and what future CROs need to master to stay relevant in the AI era. In this episode: • How AI is changing enterprise sales • Why partnerships are becoming critical to growth • The evolution of partner-led revenue • How hyperscalers changed software buying • What great enterprise sellers do differently • Why future CROs must understand ecosystems • Strategic partnerships vs transactional selling • Building long-term customer value in the AI era • The future of software go-to-market   About Olivier Zieleniecki: Olivier Zieleniecki is the Global Vice President of Partners at MongoDB, leading the company's worldwide partner ecosystem strategy. Over the course of his career, he has helped scale enterprise software organizations while building strategic partnerships that drive long-term growth. About Hunters & Unicorns: Hunters & Unicorns explores the strategies, leadership lessons, and growth playbooks behind the world's most successful software companies through conversations with elite founders, operators, and GTM leaders. With thanks to our sponsors Aurasell. Timestamps: 0:00 — Trailer 1:20 — Introduction 3:10 — How Software Selling Is Changing 5:12 — How Hyperscalers & AI Are Reshaping the Landscape 7:50 — How Partner Complexity in Deals Has Changed 10:24 — Olivier's Career Journey Into Channel 13:57 — Why These Choices Are Setting Him Up for CRO 15:25 — Strategic vs Sourcing — What's the Difference 17:50 — How to Measure Partner Impact & Influence 19:20 — How Enterprise Sellers Should Work With Partners 21:30 — What Sellers Are Getting Wrong With Partners 23:15 — What Best Practice Actually Looks Like 27:43 — Has the Partner Team Ratio Changed at MongoDB 28:58 — How AI Is Impacting the Partner Ecosystem 30:57 — How AI Channel Strategy Differs From Cloud Alliances 32:40 — Will Classic Sales Principles Survive the AI Era 34:44 — The Guiding Principle Behind the Wizard of Oz Nickname 36:54 — How Partner Landscapes Differ Globally 38:31 — Biggest Predictions for Channel by 2030 40:35 — Tools to Track & Measure Partner Success 43:23 — Should Channel Become a Letter in MEDPIC 44:26 — Closing

Anthropic, the company that built Claude, just accidentally published the full source code of their most important product. And it was their second data exposure in five days. What does this teach every organization buying AI tools right now? Kip Boyle shares the best takeaways from CRO's AI governance training and explains why the risk of AI isn't the AI itself. Your host is Kip Boyle, CISO with Cyber Risk Opportunities.   Subscribe to Inflection Point -- https://cr-map.com/inflectionpoint/ SecureWorld AI Security PLUS course -- https://www.secureworld.io/events "Gears Don't Guess: The Executive's Practical Guide to Thriving in the Face of AI Hype and Risk" (forthcoming book, Fall 2026) AIR-MAP AI Risk Assessment -- https://air-map.io

Shawn Mullahy, newly appointed CEO at Zumper, joins Harvey for a conversation about taking over from Founder, Anthemos Georgiades, and moving towards a new business and revenue model that fills houses faster.00:00 Intros and Zumper changes04:35 Zumper's strategic shift under new leadership10:08 AI Integration and Future Business Model17:02 Challenges in Lead Attribution and Customer Engagement22:01 Investor Perspectives on AI Innovation30:13 Transition from CRO to CEO and Team Dynamics36:00 Future Trends in Rental Markets and Closing Thoughts

AI may change software overnight, but company building still takes time.Ryan Smith explains why, despite the pace of AI, “the race is going to be way longer than anyone thinks.”He reflects on Qualtrics surviving multiple market cycles and ultimately being acquired by SAP for $8 billion days before going public.Guest: Ryan Smith, co-founder QualtricsConnect with Ryan SmithXLinkedInConnect with Joubin:XLinkedInEmail: grit@kleinerperkins.comFollow Grit: LinkedInX​Learn more about Kleiner Perkins

Fox's $22 billion acquisition of Roku is one of the biggest media and advertising technology stories in years, and it could fundamentally reshape connected TV. In this special breaking news episode of the AdTechGod Pod, AdTechGod is joined by Kyle Dozeman Co-Founder & CEO at Kovva  and former CRO of PubMatic, Richie Hyden (SVP of Publisher Solutions at Viant Technologies), and David Nyurenberg (SVP at InterMedia Advertising) to discuss the strategic implications of the deal. This episode covers why Fox made this move, what Roku's 100+ million household footprint brings to the table, and why identity, audience data, and operating system ownership may be more valuable than streaming content itself. They also discuss how the acquisition could transform audience targeting, measurement, content discovery, programmatic advertising, and Fox's ability to compete with giants like Amazon, Google, Netflix, and Disney. Will this create a new advertising powerhouse? How will brands, agencies, and publishers be affected? And five years from now, will this be remembered as a content play, an identity play, or the deal that changed connected TV forever? Tune in for expert analysis on one of the most consequential acquisitions in the history of streaming. Key  topics Fox's acquisition of Roku and its strategic implications The role of identity and audience data in the deal Impact on content distribution and platform dynamics Changes in ad tech and programmatic buying Future of streaming, content, and advertising Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Acquisition 01:50 Understanding the Strategic Importance of Roku 06:21 Identity and Audience Data: The Core Asset 10:16 The Impact on Ad Placements and Market Dynamics 14:01 Advertiser Perspectives on the Acquisition 16:55 Transparency in Advertising: A New Era? 21:18 User Acquisition and Market Positioning 23:19 Future Implications of the Acquisition 26:22 Looking Ahead: The Next Five Years Interested in attending Marketecture Live Chicago on September 23, 2026?. Attendance is free for qualified brands and agencies, and early bird pricing ends soon for everyone else.  Register now to secure your spot at chicago.marketecturelive.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does great leadership actually look like? Can you make a difference even if you're in the middle of the hierarchy? "If you think you're too small, you've not spent the night under a bedsheet with a mosquito." In this episode, educator and Deming practitioner Balaji Reddie explains why W. Edwards Deming was far more practical about leadership than many people realize. Drawing on both The New Economics and Out of the Crisis, Balaji shares stories and examples that bring Deming's 17 principles of leadership to life. From creating trust and joy in work to understanding variation, coaching people, and improving systems, this conversation challenges conventional management thinking and offers a clear path toward transformation. TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.2 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz and I'll be your host as we continue our journey into the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. Today I'm continuing my discussion with Balaji Reddie, who is an educator and trainer in the teachings of Dr. Deming and quality management generally. And the topic for today is Principles of Leadership. Balaji, take it away.   0:00:27.9 Balaji Reddie: Good morning. Thank you so much, Andrew. We had left our last session with that, we'd be dealing with this. And of course, Dr. Deming gave us the outline of Profound Knowledge and he gave us 14 points. He also gave us the deadly diseases and the 16 Obstacles. So people often talk about the diseases, but very often they forget the obstacles. And there are 16 of them which he highlighted for us. And if you think that they're outdated, they're as relevant as they ever were. So you need to keep revisiting those. I think if you start working on removing the obstacles, it's like you're taking your foot off the brake rather than pressing on the accelerator.   0:01:11.3 Balaji Reddie: So you're removing the things that actually stop you before you actually take things forward. But nevertheless, we start with point number 14 where he says, take action to complete, to make the transformation. And he says that there should be a critical mass of people that you need to educate and train and get them on the same page as you are. I'm gonna quote Hazel Cannon here, who is current president of the British Deming Forum. And she talks about the time when she was very young and she attended the Deming four-day seminar, I think in Birmingham. And at the end of those four days, she was overwhelmed as you normally are when you hear how the man speak. And he spoke... He wanted you to make drastic changes. It's not just tinkering here and there.   0:02:08.2 Balaji Reddie: And so she went up to him and she said, "I'm really taken up by what you just said." And then she made a statement, "I'm too small to make these changes in my organization." I believe she worked as a lab assistant in a chemical manufacturing company. They used to make chemicals for cosmetics. So she said, "I'm too small." And Deming just interrupted her and said, "Never think you're too small. If you think you're too small, you've not spent the night under a bedsheet with a mosquito." So make a change where you are and take it from there. So I would like to now quote Dr. Deming from Out of the Crisis. This is Plan for Action: Take action to accomplish the transformation. So he writes there, there are three points and then I'll come to what he writes below that.   0:03:01.8 Balaji Reddie: So he says, "Management in authority will struggle over every one of the above 13 points, the deadly diseases, and the obstacles. They will agree on their meaning and on the direction to take. They will agree to carry out the new philosophy. Management in authority will take pride in their adoption of the new philosophy and in their new responsibilities. They will have courage to break with tradition, even to the point of exile among their peers." So he talks about courage. He talks about courage of conviction. And then he says, "Management in authority will explain by seminars and other means." So I think he leaves it to people of the ways and means. And now today there are a lot of means of doing that. DemingNEXT is one of them. And he says, "To the critical mass of people in the company why change is necessary and that the change will involve everybody."   0:04:00.9 Balaji Reddie: Now he writes something very interesting. He says, "This whole movement may be instituted and carried out by middle management speaking with one voice." So he gave instructions. Why are people saying that he did not tell us what to do? It is just that he expected maybe a lot. And now let's get to that middle management and what he expected. He says here... Let's see here. I'm coming to chapter four now in The New Economics where he says, "A System of Profound Knowledge. The aim of this chapter: the prevailing style of management must undergo transformation." So we just heard that, that what we need to do. And he says, "A system cannot understand itself. The transformation requires a view from the outside. The aim of this chapter is to provide an outside view, a lens that I call a System of Profound Knowledge.   0:04:59.7 Balaji Reddie: It provides a map of theory by which to understand the organizations that we work in." Then he says, "The first step is transformation of the individual. This transformation is discontinuous. It comes from understanding the System of Profound Knowledge." Then he says that "the individual, once transformed, will set an example." So setting an example, I believe, is doing the right thing under adverse circumstances, when you stick to your principles despite the fact that there is an easier way out. As they say, choosing a path between good and bad is easy, you choose good. But good and better, you need to make the right choice. And that needs profound knowledge. "So be a good listener," he says, "but will not compromise. Continually teach other people and help people pull away from their current practice and beliefs and move to the new philosophy without a feeling of guilt about the past."   0:06:02.7 Balaji Reddie: So he explains to us what was needed here, right? And he says this is what we actually need to do. Now I'd like to, I mean, I'll be referring to a document. I don't know how we're gonna get this to people, but for the Principles of Leadership. All right, I think I'll have to send this over to you later, but we will do that. So in the Principles of Leadership, just come to them. I am quoting again from both Out of the Crisis and The New Economics. So you will find this there when he speaks about what needs to be done. Modern Principles of Leadership. And he says, "The modern principles of leadership will replace the annual performance review. The first step in a company will be to provide education in leadership." So that would be introducing people to profound knowledge from what we just heard. Then he said, "The annual performance review may then be abolished." Of course, that will take time. "Leadership will take its place, and this is what Western management should have been doing all along."   0:07:12.6 Balaji Reddie: So he says, "The annual performance review sneaked in and became popular because it does not require anyone to face the problems of people. It is easier to rate them, focus on the outcome. What Western industry needs is methods that will improve the outcome." And he says, "Suggestions follow." So first, institute... The first principle. "Institute education in leadership: the obligations, the principles, and methods." And so I think introduction to the System of Profound Knowledge will help. And then after profound knowledge has been sort of brought to the notice of... Of bringing to the notice of the people then you get into perhaps teaching them about 14 Points, et cetera.   0:07:57.8 Balaji Reddie: Comes the second principle. He says, "Ensure more careful selection of people in the first place." So choosing the people, he says again, now here's where it requires you to understand the purpose of what you're doing, purpose of your organization, purpose of the people you're looking out for and making this change. Because when you know your purpose, you know the aim, then you can choose people in the right way. And I believe he said this somewhere, it's a combination of education, training, skills, and experience. So we need to combine these four factors in choosing the right people. Then he says, after selection of the people, ensure better training and education. So we fine-tune all of their... He says a complete background. He said their aspirations, their goals.   0:08:54.2 Balaji Reddie: I kind of borrowed this idea from a company here in India where they had this thing called roles, responsibilities, and objectives. And they used to meet once in a month, but once in a year they used to decide. So the top management, the HR, would sit down with each and every employee and say that, "In this calendar year, this is what we intend to do and this is what we expect from you." And in turn, they used to ask the employee, "What do you expect from us? Because this is what we want from you." And then the employee had a chance of putting forth what he or she wanted, the management, what help they needed. And I think this is where we have to be... It's a give and take. And they didn't just meet once a year; every month they would meet and the question was, "How are we doing?" not "What have you done?"   0:09:51.1 Balaji Reddie: So I think it wasn't a traditional appraisal. If there was any appraisal, it was appraising what top management were doing or intended to do and not so much the employee. I thought that was a good move. So that's what we need to do here: better training and education. Principle number four states: "A manager understands and conveys to his people the meaning of a system. He explains the aims of the system. He teaches his people to understand how the work of the group supports these aims." Now, here's where, you know, when you talk about, say, hiring people in the first place, when you bring in new employees, I believe that there should be a special session by people inside the company who have stayed the longest, who served the company the longest, especially during their bad days. Because the employees need to know what really happened and how the company survived and how we were resilient, we came back despite all the problems that we had.   0:11:00.7 Balaji Reddie: And the historical perspective, especially if there's someone who's in touch with the founding members, that would be a great boon. I know nowadays we talk about the older companies, obviously none of the founders are there, but if there is such a person, exchanging those ideas with the young employees would definitely make a difference. So they would then understand the purpose, the aims, and how your work supports these aims. I think it's the best way to do that. But what I see right now in companies and I'm being very specific about this, because today when new employees join the company, they have an orientation, they have onboarding, as they call it, but that's done by a rookie, someone who's just joined the company and is just making...   0:11:46.8 Andrew Stotz: [0:11:46.8] Following a checklist?   0:11:48.1 Balaji Reddie: Exactly. Like a PowerPoint presentation. They don't talk about the history of the company. And I think there has to be an emotional connect before there is a logical or an intellectual connect. That emotional connect, I think, then makes you feel that pride and you feel good about coming to work and you say, "Oh, I did not know." So I believe this fourth principle is important in that sense, in the way to do that. Now, he says that... Principle five says he helps...   0:12:19.7 Andrew Stotz: By the way, do you know what chapter are you in?   0:12:23.9 Balaji Reddie: Oh, I have combined.   0:12:27.9 Andrew Stotz: Okay.   0:12:29.4 Balaji Reddie: I took some of the text... Okay. If you want to see here, this is management of people, all right? In that chapter. So I've taken... There are 14 principles there, management of people. In the new edition of The New Economics. It appears...   0:12:48.2 Andrew Stotz: So chapter six.   0:12:50.2 Balaji Reddie: Chapter six, yeah. That's chapter six...   0:12:51.8 Andrew Stotz: Yep.   0:12:52.6 Balaji Reddie: All right. And he talks about pictorial effect of transformation, and then he talks about management of people, role of a manager of people. So there were 14 there, but in Out of the Crisis, the first three which were there, he did not include here.   0:13:10.0 Andrew Stotz: Okay. I just just asked...   0:13:11.0 Balaji Reddie: So I just included those. Yeah. No, so that when people read the book, they could read it clearly, right? So, yeah. So he says now principle number five, which in Economics is principle number two or three, right? He says "he helps his people to see themselves as components in a system, to work in cooperation with preceding stages and following stages toward optimization of the efforts of all stages towards achievement of the aim." So we want optimization, not compromise. So you need to sit together. Just if I were to ask a simple question to you, Andrew, and without thinking, if I were to try to answer this question... Okay. I presume you know how to make a cup of tea.   0:13:58.7 Andrew Stotz: Yes.   0:14:00.1 Balaji Reddie: So what is the first step?   0:14:02.7 Andrew Stotz: For me, boil water.   0:14:04.6 Balaji Reddie: Boil water. And what if I say that's not the first step?   0:14:12.0 Andrew Stotz: Well, first of all, I think you probably have more experience with tea than I do, but I have more experience with espresso, probably. But anyways, go ahead and tell me.   0:14:20.9 Balaji Reddie: Okay. The first question is, whom am I making a cup of tea for? So what I just tried to convey is it's not natural to think about the customer. And so the first step is, for whom is the cup of tea? If it's the person...   0:14:30.8 Andrew Stotz: Grandma.   0:14:40.7 Balaji Reddie: That's right. If she's diabetic, then you would not need sugar. So you gather the ingredients accordingly. If he wants black tea, you don't take milk, right? And that's the point he's trying to say here. When you look at different stages, every every person has a customer. So the first question is, who is my customer?   0:15:07.1 Andrew Stotz: Right.   0:15:07.4 Balaji Reddie: And that part of profound knowledge, understanding psychology, I mentioned this last time, is empathy. The word empathy captures this. So you go to the next process as, "Whom am I doing this work for?" and sit down with that person and say, "What do you expect from me? How may I help you?" And that's what decides what you're gonna do. So this this fifth principle here, that he helps his people see themselves as components, I think this is important. The next process is your immediate customer, and the rest of them are customers in a very oblique sense. But what you do is critical to the next person in line, right? So you always spend extra time with that person and of course the other people down the line who your work is gonna be impacting over a period of time, right? But these are the... This is the first step you find out. So who's my customer? So that's principle five.   0:16:09.0 Balaji Reddie: Principle number six: now this comes under psychology again, that a manager of people understands that people are different from each other. He tries to create for everybody interest and challenge and joy in work. Now, if you look at the theory of knowledge, what exactly did he give us when he brought that component of profound knowledge into play? He says that theory is a statement that conveys knowledge by relating cause to effect. So I repeat, theory is a statement which conveys knowledge by relating some cause to some effect. It fits without fail all the observations of the past and helps us predict the future with the risk of being wrong.   0:17:04.7 Balaji Reddie: So I'm gonna repeat this whole statement again. Theory is a statement which conveys knowledge. How? By relating some cause to some effect. It fits without fail all the observations of the past and helps us predict the future with the risk of being wrong. So no amount of examples can establish a theory, and even one example can lead to either abandonment of the theory or modification of the theory. That's what he kept saying. Now, how does this work? So he says it's a system of learning, and all of us have this built in, right? Now, he came from the school of Clarence Irving Lewis, Mind and the World-Order. And if you read that book, Lewis says all knowledge is a priori, it's based on what you already know.   0:18:00.9 Balaji Reddie: For example, let me take this example here. Now, suppose I were to start describing the road to my house. Now, you've not been here, but if I start saying that the road bends towards the left and then there is a command you get to see, now you start constructing a picture in your head based on what you have already seen. It's not the same. That's your theory, right? And then when you actually visit, you say, "Oh, it's the difference between theory and what I actually saw," and then you change your theory. So theory is... It's natural. All of us think naturally like this. And that's why he says here that people are different from one another and we need to celebrate those differences. All of us are born with the system of learning, but not all of us learn the same way.   0:18:49.8 Balaji Reddie: There are some who learn by watching, there are some who learn by doing, there's some who learn by reading, there's some who learn by writing. For some people, one word is enough. You utter a word and they say, "I got it." And for some people, you have to repeat the statement maybe 10 times, 11 times, and then the 12th time you repeat it, they say, "Okay, I got it." Now, is that wrong? We're just different, right? And that's why he says here that we need to understand the learning process of people. And when you understand the learning process of a person and then put that person in the right job, you'll have to stop that person from working. That was his definition of joy in work. People enjoy their work when they realize it resonates with them.   0:19:40.4 Balaji Reddie: And how does that resonance come in? When you under... And because this is so difficult to do, we just throw the responsibility on them by saying, "Here's the target." So the target actually distracts them when actually you should be working on understanding their learning process. So it's a lot of hard work. And sometimes people are motivated enough to discover it themselves, which is great, but we need to create that atmosphere for them to enjoy their work. So interest, challenge, et cetera, he tries to optimize. Now, here's the key. This is beautiful. He tries to optimize family background, education, skills, hopes, and abilities of everyone.   0:20:21.7 Balaji Reddie: So this is not ranking people, very clear. It is instead recognition of differences between people and an attempt to put everybody in a position for development. I think this is one of the most important principles in getting things done. When I teach this to the HR students in my college, I keep saying that I don't think you should call this science as human resource management, because the definition of a resource is obtain it, shape it, use it, and throw it away. We don't wanna do that. I think we should change the title of that department to Department of Learning, because that's what exactly this is all about, and it's learning in both ways where you are trying to understand their process of learning and in effect, you're trying to understand how the company is going to be learning.   0:21:17.0 Balaji Reddie: So you put this in... So this principle, he says, combine all of these things: family background, education, hopes, I love that word. Because if you see one of the things that people talk about, customer satisfaction, I think Deming was the only person who said customers should be happy. Not just satisfied, happier, right? Now comes the next principle. "He is an unceasing learner." So you can never say, "I know it all." Unceasing learner, he encourages his people to study. And I think this fits Dr. Deming himself. He made no excuses to learn. "May I not learn," he would keep repeating that. And I remember Bill Cooper getting irritated and said, "The last time I met you, you said this, and now you're saying this. I got that on tape." He said, "Well, you got this on tape now." He said that, "I do, I learn. And as I learn," he said, "that could have been under different circumstances that I said that, but I'm saying this."   0:22:22.4 Balaji Reddie: And so you keep learning. And he encourages his people to study. The word is study. And he provides, when possible and feasible, seminars and courses for advancement of learning, encourages continued education in college or university for people that are so inclined. So I think this bit is in many places getting to be a part of the systems in most companies. I've seen that happen now, which is a good sign. But it doesn't end there, there are a lot of other things to do. This was the Principle 7 in the list of 17. Now comes Principle 8, and this is so difficult to look at. He says "he's a coach and a counsel, not a judge." You judge people, they shut up.   0:23:15.4 Balaji Reddie: So he says coach and counsel. When they need help, guide them, show them the path. Sometimes maybe you need some help in doing that, well, go ahead. So that was principle number eight. Principle number nine says "he understands a stable system. He understands the interaction between people and the circumstances that they work in. He understands that the performance of anyone that can learn a skill will come to a stable state." Now, this is amazing. He said this way back in the 1950s when he was in Japan teaching them the control chart, where he took one example where he says that further training to the worker and the process was still in control. And he says, "I think he's reached the limit of his learning. He perhaps needs to be taken to another process or maybe given something more challenging so that we can develop the learning process."   0:24:17.6 Balaji Reddie: So he was speaking about this way back in the 1950s, which today you can say comes under understanding psychology through variation. And he says, upon which furthest the lessons will not bring improvement of performance, and a manager of people knows that in this stable state, it is distracting to tell the worker about a mistake, because he says you'll actually then demotivate someone. So these three principles...   0:24:44.1 Andrew Stotz: Because a mistake may be just normal variation, or are you saying... Okay. Yep. Okay.   0:24:51.0 Balaji Reddie: Yeah. I mean, it could be anything, right? But if you are highlighting that when he's already reached a stable state, it could just work in a detrimental way, the opposite direction.   0:25:05.4 Andrew Stotz: Ultimately you've reached your goal. A steady state is fantastic.   0:25:07.4 Balaji Reddie: A steady state. And then now you say if you want him to... Anything better here, I think you need to move him out from there, since maybe he needs to be given something either more challenging or whatever it is. But use of psychology and variation together. If people are saying that he spoke about this in the 1990s, he actually spoke about this in the 1950s in Japan. And I have proof. If you go and check Elementary Principles of the Statistical Control of Quality, the series of lectures that he gave in Japan, you will see this in one of the chapters, very clearly stating what needs to be done.   0:25:47.9 Balaji Reddie: Now we come to the next principle, which is... I don't know how to explain this, but it's amazing. He says that "the leader has three sources of power: authority of office, knowledge, and personality and persuasive power, tact." So authority, that's your title, knowledge, and personality. Now, personality, persuasive power, and tact is more of a personal thing. It is something that is an attribute. Authority is the title you're given. I think the only thing that you can really work on is your knowledge. And he says that a successful manager of people develops knowledge and personality and persuasive power, does not rely on authority of office. He nevertheless has obligation to use his authority, a source of power, for him to bring changes. He says that maybe some drastic changes to equipment, to materials, to methods, and to reduce variation.   0:26:55.0 Balaji Reddie: So he attributes this to a gentleman, Dr. Robert Klekamp, or Klekamp, I don't know how to pronounce that. So he says, "He in authority, but lacking knowledge or personality, must depend on his formal power. He unconsciously fills a void in his qualifications by making it clear to everybody that he's in position of authority, his will be done." So I think he said if things needed to be done and if he's being guided the right way, then he has to bring his authority into power. I think this brings me to one of the interactions he had with... Was it James McDonald at Ford? When he made him stand up and asked him, "What is your job?" And he said, "I'm vice president, manufacturing," and he sat down. Deming said, "Stand up. That's your title, not your job." And then for the next half an hour, he grilled him on what his job was. And after half an hour, he still didn't get an answer. He said, "You don't know what your job is. Do you think other people in the company know what their jobs are? I think you're running a mess here."   0:28:02.2 Balaji Reddie: So Jim McDonald, instead of feeling insulted, took it in a very different way. Though he said, "I did feel that I wanted to resign and just walk out of there," but he said, "I knew this man was onto something." And that kind of thing of authority of office, I think he did not like if people used it for the wrong reason, but he wanted them to develop knowledge, personality. Personality, well, I think again, on the soft side, persuasive power tact. Not all of us have that, but I think we are living in a knowledge economy, so knowledge would be the key here. And he also says that if you're in a position of authority, use this to get the right work done.   0:28:47.3 Balaji Reddie: Then next he says "he will study the results with the aim to improve his performance as a manager of people." So when the system is not getting what it's supposed to do, then he does not put the blame on the people. He says, "I have... I may be going wrong somewhere." I'd like to share an example of my father in Japan. My father was in Japan in 1964, I said this last time. And he was on this Asian Overseas Technical Scholarship, AOTS. And they run these courses even today. They have three-month, six-month, nine-month, and one-year courses. And from what I remember my father telling me, it's integrated in the sense, I think he was there for six months. So during the morning sessions, they used to have classroom training, sitting in a classroom. And in the afternoon, post-lunch, they would go and work in a company, and that was like their intern. And so it was a combination of theory and practice taking place almost every day.   0:30:02.4 Balaji Reddie: Now, what happened there was on the first day... And that's where he started working with Showa Electric, and said they were called the interns. So on the first day, he was taken to the company and was introduced to his supervisor. The supervisor took him on the shop floor and introduced him to the team that he would be working with. And then, while he was leaving, that supervisor said, "I just need to tell you this, that we also form what is called as a quality circle." And this was... The quality circle movement started in 1962, so '64, the quality circle. And so my father said, "I don't know what you're talking about." And he said, "Well, this is something new. So would you like to be a part of it?" Because quality circle is voluntary, not mandatory. They make you a part of the quality, so if you want to be a part of the quality circle. It's not imposed on you.   0:31:05.0 Balaji Reddie: So my father said, "I need to talk to my teacher, my sensei, at the class." He said, "Yeah. You can talk to him." So he went back to the class the next day in the morning, he asked the teacher, the sensei, that this is what they said. He said, "Oh, it's a very good system. You can become a member of the quality circle." So on the second day, he said, "Yes, I'll be a member of the quality circle." "Great," he said. Now, on the third day, his actual work started. Now, they used to make television screens, CRO, et cetera. And one of the steps there was soldering. They had to solder. And the soldering was the dip soldering. You had to take the printed circuit board and dip it into the solder bath and take it out. Of course you were to... There was a technique.   0:31:52.8 Balaji Reddie: And so his job was that. His first job that he was assigned is to do soldering on these PCBs. And so the supervisor himself sat with my father and demonstrated 10 to 15 times how to do it. Then he told my father, "Now you do it." And then he was guiding him, and he made him make around 10 pieces until he said, "Okay. Now you're getting it right." Okay. Now he said the ground rules. If by any chance you press it down too hard or you keep it too long because of the extreme heat, there will be a superficial crack on the PCB. And that would not be something that affects the customer right away, but over a period of time, it can result in the board cracking and the radio not working. So when you see a superficial crack, you're supposed to pull the cord. There was a cord there. And when you pull the cord, the supervisor will come and help you. Fine.   0:32:56.1 Balaji Reddie: Now my father started doing his work, and his fifth or sixth piece developed a crack. Now, he said, I don't want to sound derogatory, but the Indian in me caught up. Should I report this? What would he think? I hardly left this man alone, and his fifth piece is a rejected piece. And he said, I did not want to pull that cord. But then... He said that, he told me, "Please pull the cord," I decided, let me go ahead and pull it. So when he pulled the cord, a red lamp went on there, and there's a big siren that went on. And the supervisor came running and turned off the siren and turned off that lamp and said, "What happened?" My father showed him the crack. So he said, "Okay, no problem." He put it aside. He demonstrated to my father 10 times again how to do it. And then he made him do it 10 times till he said, "Ah, see, you did this." And he got it right. Now he said, "Let's continue production."   0:33:58.8 Balaji Reddie: Now they went away and now my father got it right. After an hour or so, or maybe two hours, they had their tea break. And they were sitting around a table. Now, this was the quality circle. So the supervisor got up and started speaking in Japanese. Now, this was my father's third day there, so obviously he did not understand what was going on. The only thing he knew that they were referring to him because they could not pronounce his name properly. So instead of Reddie, he was being called Leddie. So Leddie-san, Leddie-san, Leddie-san. So my father said, "I knew he was talking about me." And he said, "I felt so ashamed, I was looking down at my cup of tea rather than looking up." And then when I looked up, he said, all of them were looking at him in admiration and the thumbs up sign. And he was wondering what the hell just happened.   0:34:51.0 Balaji Reddie: And at the end of it, when that supervisor stopped speaking, they all clapped. They clapped. And as they dispersed, each one came and held his hand and they went away. And now my father told the supervisor, "What did you tell them? Did you tell them I made a mistake?" He says, "Yes, yes, I did tell them that." He said, "Then why are they complimenting me? Why are they... Why did they clap? Why did they clap for me? Why are they shaking my hands?" He says, "They're shaking your hand, they're clapping, and they're complimenting because you pulled the cord." So he said, "What do you mean?" He says, "Well, we have a saying here, here in Japan, if after explaining to a person 10 times how to do something, if the person still makes a mistake, then there's something wrong in the way I explained it." So this bit over here is he will study results with the aim to improve his performance as a manager. Don't blame the other guy. What am I doing wrong?   0:35:54.0 Andrew Stotz: You hired him, you train him.   0:35:56.4 Balaji Reddie: Yep. So when Jack Welch used to say, "Sack the bottom 10% of the people every year," and he called them dead wood, well, I would say when you hired them, they weren't dead. You killed them. So that was principle number 11. Now principle number 12 is where he combined both variation and psychology together. He said "he will try to discover who, if anybody, is outside the system, in need of special help." So he draws a normal curve. I'll pass on this document to you so you could share it along with the podcast. And he says here that people belong to the system. These are people who need not be ranked. But a person outside the system on the lower side needs special help. People outside the system on the higher side, well, we need to take the system to that level to improve the system.   0:37:08.4 Balaji Reddie: So he talks about that. He says this can be accomplished with some simple calculations. If there be an individual with figures on production or on failures, special help may be only simple rearrangement of work. It might be more complicated. He in need of special help is not in the bottom 5%. He's clean outside that distribution. So he's trying to use the understanding of variation in a very different sense to understanding people. And he says that we try to reduce that variation in performance between people. That's the job of the system. So this is principle 11 and 12.   0:37:51.0 Balaji Reddie: Now you come to principle 13: "he creates trust." And that creates trust, I would believe, it's a two-way process. And he creates an environment that encourages freedom and innovation. That is the environment where people are unafraid to make mistakes. Because we learned that theory is not the opposite of practice; it's a guide to better practice. And we need all of us working together. And that trust, I think, has got a very funny meaning in my country. I keep joking about this. In India, trust is we will lie a little less to each other. But that's not what this is. We need to be straight honest with each other. And honest is you can only do that by example. Like what happened in my case. I remember when we had installed the ERP system in our company, and there are interlocks. And I remember there was a backlogged order. And I knew that because when we did not deliver the order on time, I negotiated with the customer and I got the delivery date postponed.   0:39:08.0 Balaji Reddie: Now I was trying to test the ERP that month. So I said, let me see if the ERP can capture this because it should show it as a backlogged order. But it showed it as an order that was to be delivered on the new adjusted date. And I said, "How did that happen?" Because that should not have changed. And so I called my assistant. I said, "This should be in backlog. Why is it showing me as a spillover order?" And he said, "No, I changed the date." I said, "Why did you do that?" And he said, "No, because the finance guy will get angry with me." And I said, "That is my problem." I said, "When I told you you're not supposed to change that date..." And I removed his administrative powers in changing the date so that he could not change the date in the system.   0:40:01.7 Balaji Reddie: I removed his powers. And he apologized profusely and said, "Please let me." I said, "No." So till the day I resigned, I kept it. I said, "You're not gonna be doing this because it's not a question..." I said... If I had succumbed to that Andrew, they would have lost my trust. They would have thought that, "Oh, Balaji just talks. He doesn't walk the talk." I said, "No, you're not supposed to do this. We are trying to go by a system. Let's go by the system." So I think you can only create trust through example, through demonstration, if I may say so, and especially under adverse circumstances that you need to demonstrate this.   0:40:46.1 Balaji Reddie: Principle number 14: he says "he does not expect perfection." I think that even he said it in principle of variation. Principle 15: he says "he listens and learns without passing judgment on him that he listens to." This is an extension of the previous points. Principle number 16: he will hold an informal, unhurried conversation with every one of his people at least once a year, not for judgment, merely to listen. The purpose would be development of understanding of his people, their aims, their hopes, and their fears. This meeting will be spontaneous and not planned ahead. So there should be no bias, like an audit.   0:41:41.5 Andrew Stotz: Right.   0:41:42.2 Balaji Reddie: And lastly, principle number 17: "he understands the benefits of cooperation and the losses from competition between people and between groups." So these were the 17 principles of leadership, the beginning of transformation. I think there can be nothing more to do than this. He was so clear in what he wanted us to do. I wonder why people say that there was no method.   0:42:16.5 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. He definitely outlined a lot of stuff there. One of the questions I had for you on that list is, what do you say to people that say that he's kind of a dreamer? The idea that you can sit down with your employees and have this time and everybody's so busy and just talk about your fears and your goals and all that stuff where we live in this age of, we've gotta get the result, we've gotta be focused. How do you respond to that?   0:42:51.1 Balaji Reddie: Well, I say give this a try. All right? You've done it your way, right? You've done it... Let's just forget about it, and you're seeing what's happening. You want a change, you gotta do something different. So why don't you go by what this man is saying? And if you say that, you know, a dreamer or whatever, well, I'd like to quote John Lennon here: "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."   0:43:16.8 Andrew Stotz: Yep. Yep. Yep. And what do you say for people that feel that you gotta have these targets and goals and KPIs to get the most out of people? And when we think about what Deming's talking about, we're talking about this intrinsic motivation. But it's scary for people to think. It's a lot more comfortable to have these goals and structures than what you could argue is a little bit more unstructured. And how do we balance that? And obviously Deming wasn't saying don't have goals.   0:44:02.1 Balaji Reddie: Yeah, yeah. I think Henry addresses this very well in his 12-day course where he has a specific section on goals, et cetera. And he talks about how Deming said that there are some things called facts of life. Facts of life is, okay, we need to turn out, we need to generate so much of revenue this year because we need to pay for all our salaries and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then we need to have some money for the future. So we need to make so much of money this year. Now that's not a goal, that's a fact of life. But when you are bringing that number out and showing that to everyone, please also indicate to them how we intend to achieve that. Don't just leave it to them and say we need to do this.   0:44:54.4 Balaji Reddie: Okay. I'll give an example here. I don't want to sound... It may sound a little self-serving, but okay, take it in the right spirit. I remember when we had our first strategic meeting at my company, and my boss... Okay, was... He said... I think 20 of us sitting in the room and he said, "Last year, our target was 30 million and we're getting there and we're doing a great job. So this year we're gonna aim for 45 million." Now when he said that, I just put my hand up and he said, "Yes." So I said, "Why 45 million?" And he just stared me down and he looked up at everyone and said, "That's it. Meeting dismissed." He just walked out. These are those days when you had... You know the OHP? You know the overhead transparencies, the projector?   0:45:56.9 Andrew Stotz: Oh, yeah. Overhead transparencies, yep.   0:45:58.8 Balaji Reddie: Yeah. So he had the transparencies, and he just took them and walked out. And all the guys came to me, "Are you mad? You're questioning the owner of the company? Are you nuts?" And I was thinking, "God, what did I say wrong?" And then we started going back to our cabins, and when I sat down at my desk, the phone rang, and it was boss. And he just uttered one word, "Come." So when I was walking towards his cabin, I was thinking to myself, "Nice company, nice friends." And then I knocked on the door, and he said, "Yeah, yeah. Come in." He said, "Sit down." And then he said, "Shut the door." He said, "What the hell were you trying to do today? Are you trying to mock me?" I said, "Please, why would I want to mock you, boss? I wouldn't want to mock you. I just wanted to know why 45 million."   0:46:52.9 Balaji Reddie: He says, "All right." And so he took out what is called the blue book, where we have the yearbook, what happened in our country in the last one year. We have these books that get written, right? So he said, "Look, this is growth in our country in industry. This is our... Sector that we are in, and we are in the organized sector in this industry. And the year-on-year growth for the last five years has been this, and this year the expected growth is so much. And can I expect at least 3 or 4% of that growth?" I said, "Of course, why not?" He said, "That, son, is 45 million." So I said, "Why didn't you tell me this? That's all I wanted to know." He said, "You think these asses..." He was referring to my other colleagues... "Would understand?" I said, "Boss, if I can understand, they can understand. It's one and the same." "Okay. Let's meet tomorrow."   0:47:52.1 Balaji Reddie: So the next day we met again. And he said, "Yesterday, when I uttered 45 million, this genius asked me why, and so I'm gonna tell you why." And he went on to explain. After he finished explaining, my sales guy... Sorry, my marketing guy got up and he said, "I have something to share." "Okay, please come forward." He put the transparency. And he had listed there the top 10 selling items in my company based on revenue, based on profits, and based on quantities. Top 10 for each. There were three products that were common to all the three. So obviously he was sending a message to us, that we had to attain our targets, at least by focusing.   0:48:44.8 Balaji Reddie: The moment he showed that, he underlined these three, the sales guy put his hand up and said, "Yes." "That second product you underlined, our competitor is selling it as a package with another product, but we don't seem to have that on our list." So the R&D guy got up and said, "Could you tell me what the part number..." And he says, "It's part number so-and-so." He said, "Hang on, I've already developed that." You know what was happening, Andrew? We were talking to each other. And that meeting went on for three and a half hours. And at the end of the three and a half hours, all of us knew how to attain 45 million.   0:49:23.8 Andrew Stotz: I thought you were gonna ask a question on the second day, "Hey, boss, so 45 million, why is there no market share gain of our business that we're growing faster than the industry?"   [laughter]   0:49:41.4 Balaji Reddie: So anyway, but this was... This is what I think goals should be transparent in this sense, that why are we giving you this number? And more importantly is the discussion that happens is how are we gonna do this? It just doesn't happen by itself, right? And if you leave it to people, they start distorting numbers, right?   0:50:03.8 Andrew Stotz: Yeah.   0:50:04.2 Balaji Reddie: As Brian Joiner said, "Distort the data, distort the system, or distort both."   0:50:12.2 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. And we're working on a growth plan for my coffee business.   0:50:19.0 Balaji Reddie: A growth.   0:50:19.6 Andrew Stotz: And really what it comes down to is three things. Number one, are we as the owners gonna hire more salespeople? Because salespeople bring in revenue.   0:50:36.3 Balaji Reddie: Right.   0:50:37.0 Andrew Stotz: Number two, are we as the owners going to develop together with the rest of the team a higher value-added offering...   0:50:50.6 Balaji Reddie: Wow.   0:50:50.8 Andrew Stotz: That we can bring more value than what we're bringing right now, which would bring potential customers to us and allow us to sell more easily. Or are we as the owners going to buy another company?   0:51:07.8 Balaji Reddie: Oh, okay.   0:51:09.2 Andrew Stotz: So those are the three things. And Dale and I have been discussing each one of those in a lot of detail, testing out and debating and discussing. But those are the type that... When it comes to growth, that's just... We know the growth we can produce with no change. And that's in line with the inflation rate or whatever the economic growth, for sure. But as long as we don't lose people on our team or something like that. But to go to our team and say, "How are we gonna grow faster?" Well, that whole point is we can see. Also the other thing is that we can see bigger about the industry sometimes. Sometimes they see something at a small level that they bring back to us and think, "Whoa, wait a minute, that's something valuable." And yeah, so we're getting ready for our final decisions on where we're gonna go with that. But yeah, without that type of change, we're not gonna reach the type of growth that we want to get. And really our idea is 5x growth in five years.   0:52:19.9 Balaji Reddie: Okay.   0:52:20.5 Andrew Stotz: And in order to do that, we have to have a completely different level of quality, service, product, thinking. And so, yeah, it's fun... It's challenging. Anyways...   0:52:32.9 Balaji Reddie: Right.   0:52:33.2 Andrew Stotz: So how do we wrap this up? What is it you want people to take away? You've shared a lot of different stuff. What would you like them to take away from it?   0:52:42.0 Balaji Reddie: Yeah. One, I'm trying to shatter that myth that Deming did not tell us what was to be done. I think he was very clear and we need to reread and reread. And we have to take these as guidelines. You may come up with your own method, but see these as a guideline by and large to put you on the right path. And once you do that, you may develop something which works for you, and that's what he wanted. But let us not just say that he only philosophized about things. I think he was very clear in his head. He just wanted us to do things our own way because nobody understood our problems better than we ourselves. And he was just showing us how to understand things around.   0:53:32.6 Balaji Reddie: He wanted us to know, to understand what we do not know. Through these principles, we can address some of the gaps. Perhaps we were getting a few things wrong. So point number 14, take action to accomplish the transformation. I think it begins with leadership. So point number seven comes into the picture. It begins with training and education. Point number six comes into the picture and it also brings in point number 13, which is learning and development. And education and training is different from learning and development. Training can be very company specific and you can measure the outcomes of training, but you cannot measure the outcomes of development because that takes time.   0:54:19.8 Balaji Reddie: So you need to have some things going in your favor. And for that you need to choose, and he told us how to do that. And yes, he wanted top management to be a part of this because he said those in authority need to do this. But that one sentence that middle management can commence, it can commence there, is a telling statement. So he knew it was possible.   0:54:45.0 Andrew Stotz: That's great. And I like that. Commence. That there's... It's not necessarily gonna be completed by middle management, but middle management can start right now, right where you are. So that's a great way, that's a great way to end with the start. So, Balaji, I want to thank you on behalf of everyone at the Deming Institute. And it's an interesting discussion and I'm enjoying it very much. And for listeners out there, remember to go to deming.org and also there, jump on DemingNEXT to continue your journey. This is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming, and that is: "People are entitled to joy in work."   0:55:32.1 Balaji Reddie: Oh, yeah. Andrew, I think saying thank you on behalf of the institute, I am also a part of the institute.   0:55:38.5 Andrew Stotz: Of course. Of course. You are. I appreciate it. Okay.

In this video, we sit down with Brian Williams from Hockey Stick Advisory to break down how B2B companies can actually build partnerships into a real revenue channel, not just a logo wall.We cover:→ Why partnerships needs to be a top down strategic decision, not a side experiment→ The foundations most companies are missing before they even hire a partnerships manager→ How to pick the right partners using a capacity, commitment, mutual customers and capability matrix→ Why partnerships takes a two year cycle and how to set realistic expectations with your leadership team→ How AI is changing the way partnership ops and rev ops teams work togetherIf you are a B2B marketer, CRO or founder who knows partnerships should be part of your growth mix but has no idea how to actually build it out properly.Tune in and learn:→ How to align your whole leadership team on what partnerships is and what it isn't→ How to validate your partner categories before you activate anything→ What a mutual success plan looks like and how to operationalize partners like a sales team→ Why referral leads close faster and how to make that engine predictable→ How to build a line of sight to partnerships ROI that your CFO and CRO will actually get behind-----------------------------------------------------

In this today's segment, Dan Sperring, founder and CEO of Align ICP, breaks down a mistake most revenue leaders make when defining their ideal customer profile. The instinct is to chase the highest lifetime value customers, but those segments are often the hardest to win, the slowest to close, and the first to break when the market shifts. This clip focuses on how to balance three critical factors inside your ICP: lifetime value, ease of acquisition, and market health. Dan explains why ignoring any one of these creates pipeline risk, and how leaders can avoid over-rotating into segments that look great on paper but fail in execution. For leaders responsible for predictable growth, this is about making smarter tradeoffs, not just better targeting. Dan Sperring is the founder and CEO of AlignICP, a company focused on helping revenue teams align around high-value customer segments to drive predictable growth. He brings experience across customer success, revenue leadership, and scaling SaaS businesses through product-market and go-to-market alignment. Connect with Dan: AlignICP LinkedIn Books mentioned: The Innovator's Dilemma by Clayton M. Christensen The Innovator's Solution by Clayton M. Christensen and Michael E. Raynor Predictable Revenue by Aaron Ross and ​​Marylou Tyler  Amp It Up by Frank Slootman Tools and podcasts mentioned: clay.com zoominfo.com The Science of Scaling Podcast Listen to the full episode: Aligning Pipeline to Ideal Customer Profile with Dan Sperring Get the Force Management framework for aligning your ICP, sales motion, and customer lifecycle around high-value use cases and measurable business outcomes: The Predictable Revenue Framework: Guide for Leaders Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results. This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale. Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

What does it take to build high-performing sales teams in an AI-driven world? In this episode of Sales Lead Dog, Christopher Smith sits down with Leala Dueno, CRO and Founder at LATTIX, to discuss sales leadership, team development, mentorship, CRM strategy, AI, and what it takes to create repeatable revenue growth. Leala shares lessons from her journey building and scaling sales organizations, leading enterprise growth initiatives, and helping companies navigate the evolving relationship between data security, AI, and business growth. The conversation explores the realities of sales leadership, the importance of resilience, how to manage up effectively, and why CRM and AI are transforming the future of sales organizations. What You'll Learn • How great mentors can accelerate career growth • Why ego often becomes a barrier to sales success • The mindset needed to overcome setbacks in sales • Lessons from building and scaling high-performing teams • How successful leaders manage up and influence stakeholders • Why CRM must evolve beyond a system of record • How AI is changing sales operations and decision-making • The risks organizations face when adopting AI • Why data quality is critical for growth and forecasting • Leadership principles that help teams perform consistently About Leala Dueno Leala Dueno is the CRO and Founder at LATTIX, a company building trust infrastructure for the AI era. She is a revenue leader and startup operator with extensive experience building and scaling sales and account management teams across global technology organizations. Throughout her career, Leala has led enterprise growth initiatives, developed go-to-market strategies, and managed multimillion-dollar portfolios across technology services and AI-driven solutions. At LATTIX, she is helping define a new category at the intersection of data security, AI, and zero-trust infrastructure, enabling organizations to securely share, control, and trust their data across increasingly complex environments. Her leadership approach focuses on building repeatable revenue systems, developing talent, and helping organizations adapt to the rapidly changing technology landscape. Connect with Leala Dueno LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lealadueno/ Learn More About LATTIX: https://lattix.com About Sales Lead Dog Sales Lead Dog is hosted by Christopher Smith, CRM technology and sales process expert, and founder of Empellor CRM. Each episode features sales leaders who have separated themselves from the rest of the pack, sharing how they achieve success with their teams and their CRM strategy. Unless you are the lead dog, the view never changes. Connect and Learn More All episodes and show notes: https://empellorcrm.com/salesleaddog/ If this episode brought you value:

Consumption pricing and AI adoption are forcing revenue teams to prove value faster, with less room to hide behind contracts, pilots, or broad technical promises. Seong Park, Senior Vice President of Customer Support and Services at Cursor, joins John Kaplan and John McMahon to examine how customer success has become a consultative, technical, and commercial function in modern go-to-market. The conversation explores why post-sale execution is now central to retention, how teams need to embed into customer workflows, what finance scrutiny means for consumption models, and why the fundamentals of pain, champions, outcomes, and evidence still matter in a market moving at unusual speed. Seong Park is the Senior Vice President of Customer Support and Services at Cursor. His background spans pre-sales, customer success, and go-to-market leadership across companies including MongoDB, ThoughtSpot, and now Cursor. Connect with Seong: LinkedIn Key takeaways from this episode:  00:00 – Seong Park's perspective on how pre-sales, open source SaaS, and customer success shaped his view of enterprise go-to-market. 02:26 – Why consumption models force revenue teams to re-earn the customer's business through usage and realized value. 08:00 – The value realization test every revenue leader should care about: what happens if the solution gets unplugged. 11:04 – Why workflow depth quietly becomes a moat in enterprise accounts. 18:04 – Why the real selling often starts after the customer signs. 23:50 – A look inside where Cursor is finding technical go-to-market talent, and what it takes to build that talent into customer-facing operators. 34:38 – Why finance scrutiny quietly changes the standard of proof for AI investments. 52:00 – The three things post-sale teams need to understand before value delivery can begin. Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results. This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale. Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

Sam Blond is the Co-founder and CEO of Monaco, the revenue engine for startups.Sam is one of the best sales operators in tech. He spent four years as CRO at Brex, where he helped scale it to a ~$12B valuation, ran sales at Zenefits before that, and got his start at EchoSign.If there's a modern GTM playbook, Sam helped write it. Our conversation walks through how AI has rewritten a big chunk of it. But most importantly, we talk about what hasn't changed.We get into the sales work AI is now better at than humans, and why Sam thinks 90% of startups misdiagnose their bottleneck as conversion when it's really demand gen.He explains why he doesn't measure early brand marketing at all and trusts anecdotes over attribution, walks through the full Monaco launch playbook including the Super Bowl box-truck story, and shares a rev-ops insight from Brex, including how they figured out a specific ICP converted at 4x the rate of another.Thank you to Numeral, Flex, Amplitude, and Merge for supporting this episode.Numeral: The end-to-end platform for sales tax and compliance https://www.numeral.comFlex: Get premium banking and a net 60 day credit card at 0% APY https://home.flex.one/referral/bananacapitalAmplitude: AI analytics, all you have to do is ask https://www.amplitude.comMerge: Every modal. One API. Total control. Check out Merge's Agent Handler. merge.dev/turnerTimestamps:(0:00) Scaling Brex to $12B(1:14) How AI speeds up prospecting and TAM building(5:19) Using AI to get more leverage(9:15) Incubating Monaco at Founders Fund(12:56) Innovator's dilemma in AI(15:57) Why AI companies build full platforms, not wedge products(23:30) Revenue is just a math equation(27:18) Two ways AI increases conversion rates(36:56) AI will never replace spending time with customers(39:46) Don't measure the impact of brand marketing(49:03) Your marketing must be different (and hard)(58:39) Customer discovery calls and working with design partners(1:03:03) The zero to 100 launch(1:11:00) Monaco's launch playbook(1:19:00) Send gifts that are unique and social(1:22:17) Naming your company(1:28:04) Founders should send early outbound(1:32:38) How multi-channel augments AI outbound(1:39:42) Using intent signals and outreach timing to increase conversions(1:43:28) Two common ways founders mess up when scaling revenue(1:50:22) Monaco's Forward Deployed AE'sReferencedTry Monaco: https://www.monaco.com/Careers at Monaco: https://jobs.ashbyhq.com/monacoSam's launch post: https://x.com/samdblond/status/2026420015793320129?s=20Follow SamTwitter: https://x.com/samdblondLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-blond-791026b/Follow TurnerTwitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovakLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovakSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

In Episode 191 of Facts vs. Feelings, Ryan Detrick, Chief Market Strategist at Carson Group, and Sonu Varghese, Chief Macro Strategist at Carson Group, go live from Chicago with Jeff Kilburg, Founder and CEO & CIO at KKM Financial, and Jim Bianco, President at Bianco Research, for a wide-ranging conversation on where markets stand now and what could matter next. The episode centers on the bull market's concentration in AI and large-cap tech, the durability of the rally, the role of active management, and why diversification may need to look different than it did a decade ago.The conversation also digs into earnings momentum, cross-ownership in AI, the impact of higher bond yields on long-duration assets, and whether software is being transformed or disrupted by AI.From bubbles and breadth to bond yields, oil shocks, and portfolio construction, the episode connects live market commentary to the forces shaping returns underneath the surface.Jump to:0:00 — Live Crowd and Big Questions1:48 — What A Bubble Really Means6:00 — Earnings Momentum and AI Optimism12:35 — Circular Ownership and AI ROI16:05 — AI Replaces Software or Adds Cost21:55 — 60/40 Is Not Dead Just Different30:10 — Return Stacking and Better Diversifiers36:30 — Oil, Inflation Volatility, and Bonds41:40 — Concentration, Active Picks, And Dispersion47:20 — Hard-Won Advice and Closing ThanksConnect with Ryan:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryandetrick/• X: https://x.com/RyanDetrickConnect with Sonu:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonu-varghese-phd/• X: https://x.com/sonusvarghese?lang=enQuestions about the show? We'd love to hear from you! factsvsfeelings@carsongroup.com

In this episode of CRO Spotlight, Warren Zenna sits down with MK Marsden, CEO of Sales-Sleuth, to diagnose the root causes of the modern B2B sales crisis. They explore how the shift toward cheap, automated mass communication has eroded buyer trust and forced buyers to rely on independent research. As buyers become increasingly overwhelmed by digital noise, revenue leaders must fundamentally rethink their outbound approaches.The conversation tackles the systemic issues created by misaligned software solutions and arbitrary key performance indicators. MK argues that treating complex sales relationships as a series of isolated events—measured by clicks, opens, and call volumes—has detached sellers from true relationship building. When finance teams and software engineers dictate sales metrics, organizations lose sight of genuine buyer satisfaction.To counteract this dysfunction, leaders need to empower their teams with deep insights before a conversation ever occurs. The discussion shifts toward leveraging advanced sales intelligence platforms that analyze public buyer signals, eliminating the need for cold discovery calls. By equipping sellers with accurate data regarding a prospect's technical environment and immediate needs, companies can level the playing field.Ultimately, restoring effectiveness in sales requires a commitment to long-term value over instant gratification. Warren and MK highlight the challenges newly appointed revenue leaders face when balancing immediate expectations against the time required to genuinely turn a strategy around. They conclude by discussing how measuring long-term impact and sustained trust is the only sustainable path forward for modern businesses.

“We're not hiring less because of AI. We just expect each hire to be more productive.” Is AI shrinking your marketing team, or just changing who belongs on it? Connor Rolain (Head of Growth, HexClad) and Cody Plofker (CEO, Jones Road Beauty) get into how two of the most operator-driven brands in ecommerce are rethinking their AI marketing team structure heading into the second half of 2026. They cover which roles are compressing, which are expanding, and what it actually looks like to build a leaner growth team that outputs more. Cody breaks down the CRO program he runs with one person that used to require six. Connor explains why HexClad hired more people after building an AI-powered seeding system, not fewer. And both share how they think about headcount requests now, and what they make teams prove before saying yes. Powered By Motion Creative Benchmarks 2026 https://motionapp.com/thumbstop-pulse/creative-benchmarks-2026?utm_campaign=marketing-operators&utm_medium=sponsor&utm_content=creative-benchmarks-2026&utm_source=marketing-operators-podcastAftersell https://9ops.co/4i3bb5 Haushttps://www.haus.io/operators Richpanelhttps://9ops.co/richpanel Operators Newsletterhttps://9operators.com/

In today's MadTech Daily, we discuss Portugal fining telecoms companies over ad collusion, The Trade Desk's CRO stepping down after seven months, and software buyouts falling to pandemic-era lows amid an AI-driven market rout

In this episode, Jason and Tara Di-Cristo-Schmitt from Houzz talk about her journey from rep at ADP to CRO, what she learned about authentic leadership and transparency at HubSpot, how she prioritized her first 90 days as a first-time CRO, and her weekly rhythm for managing hundreds of reps. Check out more free content and get help with outbound at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://outboundsquad.com.⁠

Description The Future of Tech is Here. Subscribe to our Newsletter:https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this presentation from Ultimate Partner Live, industry analyst Jay McBain breaks down the monumental macroeconomic shifts rewriting the tech sector in 2026. https://youtu.be/r0qTDyw97Gs As the industry rapidly approaches a $6.07 trillion valuation, driven by massive AI infrastructure investments from Sam Altman and the “Magnificent Seven,” traditional sales and channel models are fundamentally collapsing. McBain reveals how buyer demographics have transformed to an integration-first millennial base, why marketplace ecosystems now command over half of all partner-funded deals, and how a tiny elite of just 1,000 tech service providers control two-thirds of global tech revenue. Learn the exact mechanics behind how Microsoft out-partnered AWS to win 26 straight quarters of dominant growth and how your business can deploy an algorithmic early warning system to capture massive wallet share before competitors even step into the boardroom. Key Takeaways Over half of the Fortune 500 companies vanish every 20 years because their leadership fails to anticipate macroeconomic technological cycles. The true opportunity in the $6.5 trillion AI boom lies not in single vendor products, but in the hardware, software, services, and telecom ecosystem surrounding them. Indirect tech sales are undergoing a structural shift toward direct cloud hyperscaler models driven heavily by Nvidia's core infrastructure client base. Modern business deals are won or lost months before the point of sale based on the average of 6.3 partners surrounding a customer’s environment. Over 51% of tech buyers are now millennials who prioritize software integration capabilities and digital marketplaces over traditional human sales interactions. Tech service economics are pivoting aggressively away from upfront margins toward point-based multi-partner funding across subscription cycles. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags Nvidia AI buildout, $7 trillion AI opportunity, cloud ecosystem decade, Microsoft vs AWS growth, multi-partner cloud deals, digital marketplace migration, millennial B2B buyers, B2B tech subscription economics, tokenized micro consumption, tech services wallet share, hybrid cloud infrastructure, 28 customer moments, IT services industry growth, telecom spend breakdown, channel chief strategy, managed service providers MSP, global systems integrators GSI, software integration first, point-based vendor incentives, automated co-selling workflows Transcript JAY McBAIN AUDIO PODCAST [00:00:00] Jay McBain: So to go back to that story about the 53% of companies who are gonna fail, one of us is gonna be asked to write the book, but chapter one is always you Blame the CEO. [00:00:13] Vince Menzione: We just came back from Ultimate Partner live in Bellevue, Washington, where we hosted incredible leaders for two amazing days. Come join us for this next session where we explore the tectonic shifts we’ve all been seeing. With that, I am incredibly blessed to invite a friend of mine to the stage. I have a quick little side note, like I found an old LinkedIn post from this gentleman from like many years ago, like 20 years ago. [00:00:39] Vince Menzione: And I wasn’t really that nice to you on that LinkedIn post. Like, oh, like this is before Jay became the Jay, that we all know Jay to be j. But he was in the space and I was at Microsoft doing something and he reached out about something. It was kind of rude, Jay. I was like, oh my gosh. I can’t believe. But Jay has been a great friend. [00:00:54] Vince Menzione: When we started the podcast back up, uh, during COVID we started doing podcasts together. When we moved to the studio, Jay was the first person in the studio. He’s always got a spot, uh, at our events. He’s s Spot Art, and, and he’s a great friend and supporter of Ultimate Partner Jay McBain. For those of you who don’t know him, Jay, welcome. [00:01:13] Vince Menzione: Thank you, sir. [00:01:22] Jay McBain: 31 days ago, we landed Artemis two. The furthest humans have ever been away from the planet Earth 57 years ago. We landed on the moon in the 56 years. Between those two moments, the tech industry has been the fastest growing industry in the world. Every single year we moved from the space race to the technology race, and we’re just getting started. [00:01:46] Jay McBain: If you’re old enough, you’ll recognize the mainframe and mini era for 20 years. You’ll recognize a young disheveled Bill Gates showing up in Boca Raton, Florida for, uh, August the 12th, 1981 launch, where Bill thought that every one of us would’ve a PC in our home, and IBM thought they were gonna sell 10,000 of them to hobbyists. [00:02:12] Jay McBain: 1999, a small startup from an executive who just left Oracle in San Francisco named Mark Benioff. A couple of years later, Jeff Bezos went into a boardroom and said, listen, we’ve spent a lot of money building infrastructure to our busiest day, Christmas, black Friday. You’re telling me this stuff sits idle 10 or 20% for the rest of the year. [00:02:35] Jay McBain: Why don’t we rent that out to others? Got laughed outta that boardroom and then got made of fun of on magazine covers. Maybe you should just tend the store, let the adults talk about technology. In March of 2023, our neighbors, our friends, our family saw DeepFakes. They saw poetry, they saw music, and they came to us as tech people and said, did we just light up Skynet? [00:03:03] Jay McBain: Now every one of these 20 year eras, this is the Taylor Swift version of our industry. Every single one of these eras triggers the fastest growing product in history. Today it’s actually Chacha bt first to a billion users. It triggers a new, richest person in the world, bill Gates, to Jeff Bezos. Now, Elon Musk is the first to sign a trillion dollar pay package, and it’s not for car. [00:03:27] Jay McBain: It’s not for cars. It also triggers a most valuable company in the world change. And today that’s nvidia. These are monumental changes in our industry and they’re monumental changes in partnering every single time. And it also links to our customers. If you take a 20 year view of business, one era, and, and think about the AI era, you know, at the start of it here, if you’re to grab the Fortune 500 magazine from 20 years ago and start to flip through it, 53% of the companies in there no longer exist. [00:04:06] Jay McBain: Every 20 year cycle, we lose over half of the biggest companies in the world. These are the companies that have very deep pockets to buy their way outta problems. If you’re not in the Fortune 571% of tech companies don’t make it 10 years. These are the changes that cost industries. There are changes that cost really big companies and the decisions we make, the trends we’re in right now, in 2026 will be written about in the future. [00:04:39] Jay McBain: This new era, a lot of big numbers being thrown around. Vince’s best friend talk about a six and a half trillion dollar AI opportunity, but it’s not Microsoft’s tam. Microsoft is chasing about a trillion dollars of this. And the ecosystem, the hardware, the software, the services, the telecom is gonna make up the rest. [00:05:04] Jay McBain: It is an ecosystem. Every time these big numbers are thrown, the word ecosystem is always thrown around it. Not to be outdone, Sam Altman’s talking about a $7 trillion build out. The world economy this year, the world GDP will be 126. These are material numbers to world GDP, but even better, they’re both larger than our entire industry is today. [00:05:27] Jay McBain: So what took 56 years of the fastest growing industry this year will be $6.07 trillion. Big numbers, but it’s easier to think about it in terms of a dollar that our customers spend in that dollar. They’re gonna spend 25 cents on hardware. They’re gonna spend 25 cents on software. So for anyone that read the memo 15 years ago, that software’s gonna eat the world, there’s still a dollar a hardware to run every dollar of that software. [00:05:57] Jay McBain: And whether you’re thinking humanoid robots or whichever future you’re envisioning, there’s going to be a dollar of hardware to run every dollar of software for the next 20 years. There’s over 25 cents now in IT services, and in many cases, these services are growing faster than the product categories and just under 25 cents in telecom, that’s how it breaks out today. [00:06:19] Jay McBain: And this industry, which took 56 years to get to this point, is gonna double in size in the next three to five years. We already have two and a half trillion of that seven raised and being spent. Part of the reason Nvidia is the most valuable company in the world. Now our industry, uh, you talk about ultimate partnerships. [00:06:40] Jay McBain: Our industry traditionally, and world trade by the way, is 75% indirect. The dealerships, the agencies, the brokers, the resellers, the retailers, the franchisees, the gas stations, the grocery stores, the pharmacies, all 27 industries sell indirect. You gotta think back the last time you bought something direct. [00:07:01] Jay McBain: Well, I bought a Dell from that dude in the nineties. Cool. Well, Dell Technologies is now 60% indirect. Well, I bought insurance. Direct is 15 minutes. Could save me 15%. Well, Geico last year sold more insurance through agencies and brokers than they did direct. This is the world now. We used to be 75% indirect four years ago. [00:07:26] Jay McBain: Then it went to 73.2, then it went to 70.1 and it then it went to 66.7. By the way, marketplace is in these numbers indirect. It’s not marketplace causing this change. It’s one company, Nvidia. Nvidia has seven customers. The magnificent seven, uh, half of them are in the room right now that every morning we wake up to a hundred billion dollars press release about this $7 trillion buildout. [00:07:56] Jay McBain: What’s interesting is indirect sales in our industry is growing by revenue. It increases every year, just not at the pace that this AI build out is happening direct with seven companies. But the reason we’re all here, and I think the core reason that Vince is building this community is this, you know, Microsoft forever has measured and been very vocal. [00:08:21] Jay McBain: About 96% of their deals have partners in them. Kind of who cares, who collects the money. We care about the moments, the 28 moments before the customer makes a purchase. We care about every 30 days forever, because two thirds of our industry, over $4 trillion now is subscription consumption based. Winning a customer today is only winning the first 30 days. [00:08:46] Jay McBain: We care about this cycle. We care about who surrounds our customer. So six years ago, I stood on a big stage and said, you know, we went through a decade of sales. You know, in 1999, you thought you were born to be a salesperson. You’re managing your territory with your gut. Well, a few years later, you were introduced to the science of selling. [00:09:07] Jay McBain: You know, 10 years later you thought as a marketer, you sit around a cocktail party joking with your friends, 50% of my marketing dollars are wasted. I just don’t know which 50%. Really funny. In 2009 until every 58-year-old CMO got replaced by a 38-year-old growth hacker. Coming in with Marketo and Eloqua and Pardot and HubSpot, and 15,505 as of yesterday, MarTech and iTech tools, ninjas in marketing, they wouldn’t let a nickel go through without measuring. [00:09:43] Jay McBain: Now we understand 96% of deals and partners that surround it. No deal is gonna be won or lost in this era without partnering effectively. So we had to have this decade of the ecosystem. One of the ways we’re tracking is by outsiders. You know, Salesforce every year publishes the state of sales and they’ve got, you know, the number one CRM in the world. [00:10:05] Jay McBain: So they get to go talk to all the CROs, all the salespeople in the world. And as of this year, a couple months ago, 94% of every salesperson in every industry in the world uses partners every single day. You wanna see what this number was six years ago. Also, 89% of salespeople around the world don’t think they’re going to club this year without partners. [00:10:29] Jay McBain: So this is a big moment for us, halfway through the decade ecosystem, but we’re only halfway through. We’re starting to understand now at a more granular level. What partnering means. It’s not theory, it’s not flywheels. It’s not really cute. McKinsey slides that we keep showing to our board saying how important partnering is. [00:10:51] Jay McBain: We’re trying to get to the very specific level of the 6.3 partners on average that surround the deal and what they’re doing. How their business model works, and that’s average if I’m working on a public sector deal. I was at a Red Hat conference yesterday talking sovereignty. If I’m in an enterprise or a large public sector deal, it’s north of 10 partners in the deal. [00:11:15] Jay McBain: So we’re starting to understand what used to be this, this, you know, you’ve been the fastest growing industry for 56 straight years. Every single professional services person in every industry has come in to join the fund. Over 90% of accountants are tech services firms. Over 90% of marketing agencies are tech services agencies. [00:11:36] Jay McBain: All of this 250,000 software companies, a million emerging comp tech companies, the half a million VAR that have been in that traditional channel. The managed service providers, all of these 20 different partner types, millions of companies, tens of millions of people competing for 6.3 spots. Around the customer. [00:11:58] Jay McBain: That’s it. Luckily, there’s 141 million global customers to compete for. There’s, there’s some open slots that you can go find, and that’s the point. Our industry never had our own Fortune 500. We always talk to, you know, these partners and GSIs are doing this and SI are doing that. And we never really had a view of capability and capacity or what our own TAM was inside of that partnering. [00:12:25] Jay McBain: And so we set out and we would’ve loved, you know, chat GPT or Gemini or Claude or any of those tools to do this. But there’s one problem in partnering with AI is that it doesn’t know one partner from the next. There’s a big digital sameness problem in our industry that every single partner, whether it’s Larry in the White van or Accenture, with 786,000 employees all say they do all things to all people all the time. [00:12:53] Jay McBain: 98% of them, 99% of them are private companies that don’t share their p and l. You can’t go into Microsoft’s LinkedIn system and find out how many employees, ’cause it’s a block system, it AI can’t see into it. So it just sees, and it’s a great pattern matching. Google, SEO can’t figure out who’s who, nor today can the large language models. [00:13:14] Jay McBain: ’cause all the things they’re trying to match, the transformers are trying to match. It all looks the same. Every tweet, every ebook, every website, every digital history looks the same. So this took us thousands of people hours across two years to do, to dig into every p and l to dig into every dollar of what they’re doing. [00:13:33] Jay McBain: But what was interesting is only a thousand partners in our industry do two thirds of all tech services. When you get into enterprise, it goes up to 80 to 90%. The partners in the middle, in Blue do more tech services. The 30 of them than the 970 partners in white on the outside, the 970 partners in White do more tech services than the next million combined. [00:14:03] Jay McBain: This is our industry in a nutshell. Every time we talk to a a vendor, every time we talk to a partner, every time we talk to a distributor, we’re now talking names, faces, and places. You you wanna talk sovereignty. Yesterday in Atlanta, 90% of sovereign conversations in public sector in the globe is handled by these companies here. [00:14:26] Jay McBain: Forget about how much you do with these partners today. You wanna chase the next column, which is the wallet share. And I was a channel chief for 17 years. I get the weekly report and I see a million dollar partner, another million dollar partner, sorted top to bottom. You don’t know which partners which, which of those million dollar partners is doing 1.2 million in your category. [00:14:46] Jay McBain: They deserve a baseball cap and a front row seat at your event as an MVP. The next partner right next to them is doing 10 million in your category. They’re only doing a million with you. ’cause customers are pulling them into it. Nine times outta 10. They’re leading with your competitor. So I don’t want that list anymore. [00:15:03] Jay McBain: I want the new list, which is showing me those $9 million opportunities. And I as a board member, as A CEO, as a CFO, as a CRO, I wanna see this list. And then I want to talk people, processes, programs, technology. What are we gonna do to go get our fair share of that 9 million? Where’s our lowest hanging fruit? [00:15:24] Jay McBain: How do we double our pipeline? How do we double the size of our company in three years? It’s all right here. Let’s have very specific conversations and move away from flywheels and move around from force multipliers and and things like that in partnering. Let’s figure out how this partner community is surrounded. [00:15:45] Jay McBain: What do 10 million people who have to be smart in front of their customers every single day, what do they read? Where do they go and who do they follow? It’s the law of a few. This is the old Malcolm Gladwell of tipping point 10 million people in the broader channel. A hundred percent of our TAM comes down to only a thousand watering holes. [00:16:08] Jay McBain: 12% of that entire audience. Doesn’t sound like a lot, but it’s over A million. People love podcasts. Number one way they learn the Joe Rogan effect. In our industry, there’s 121 podcasts. These are all public lists. You can go get on my LinkedIn newsletter on canals, oia. But there’s 121 podcasts that drive him forward. [00:16:28] Jay McBain: Really high up on that list, actually number one on the list is ultimate partner, Vince. That’s how I met. ’cause I asked people, 10 million people, you love this. You walk your dog, you drive to work, you listen to podcasts. I’m not the biggest podcast fan. It’s not number one on my list, but it’s number one on theirs. [00:16:44] Jay McBain: They say, you know, you gotta meet this guy, Vince. It’s unbelievable how great these podcasts are. They’re ultimate. [00:16:54] Jay McBain: Then I talked to Vince and said, but Vince, you know, 35% of your community, the 10 million people love to come to events like this one. The hallway conversations, the hotel lobby bar last night. This is what we love to do, especially post pandemic. It’s the number one way we learn. We learn from our peers, we learn from those around us, and, and the learn from the conversations we have here. [00:17:17] Jay McBain: We always remember these moments, you know, years and years later. There’s 352 choices. I’m going to five of them this week in five different cities. It’s a lot of coverage, but again, it’s a tighter li list of how people work. The magazine lists 106 of them associations like Conter. Now the GTIA peer groups, there’s 15 different spheres of influence, but only a thousand places. [00:17:43] Jay McBain: I could walk you through billionaire, after billionaire, after billionaire in this industry and show you how they did this. How did Arne Bellini at ConnectWise? How did Austin McCord at Datto, how did Nerdio become a unicorn? How did threat locker and huntress move away from 6,500 cyber companies and become unicorns over and over and over again? [00:18:05] Jay McBain: It’s only one slide. Unicorns and billionaires are made here, and a lot of people don’t get it. So walking away from Bellevue, a thousand partners, top down, a thousand watering holes, bottoms up. You’ve covered a hundred percent of your tam. You do it better than 10% of your competitor, 10% better than your competitors. [00:18:27] Jay McBain: You win. You carry that on your resume into the next company. You get a bigger job at a bigger pay scale. Let’s just walk through some examples. Cyber 91.7% of it goes through the channel. Huge channel audience. You know, if you’re in MarTech, it’s only 10%, but this one happens to be all channel, but that’s not the story. [00:18:48] Jay McBain: For every dollar that the 6,500 cyber companies are trying to close, there’s $2 in services. Plot twist, the products are grown at 11, the services are grown at 12.6. Your partners are growing faster than you are, and they will continue to for the next, at least five years, probably 10. So when I’m here, five years from now, you’ll hear in me talk about a three to one split in cyber and then a four to one split in cyber. [00:19:18] Jay McBain: Now, when we’re in Miami a couple days ago is CrowdStrike, they’re talking about a $7 and 5 cent multiplier, chasing that two to one up higher. You look at managed services. Here’s a fun story. Managed services. 82% of customers who are man, uh, outsourcing more this year than last year. 650 billion in size. [00:19:38] Jay McBain: This is bigger than the entire SaaS industry. Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, Marketo, NetSuite, HubSpot, 250,000. Others. This is bigger. It’s also bigger than all the Hyperscalers combined, not just AWS, Microsoft and Google, but Alibaba and Oracle and everybody down the list. This is a massive market also growing at double digits. [00:19:59] Jay McBain: So these are some big things and obviously we’re watching, you know, week in and week out, quarter in, quarter out, the Battle of Software and Battle of the Hyperscalers and things like that, and who’s growing at what pace and, and how partnering is connecting to all of this. You know, we watched a moment really early in the pandemic where Microsoft started growing faster than AWS and they haven’t stopped since 26 straight quarters. [00:20:27] Jay McBain: And you ask customers and say, you know, does Microsoft have a better product? And in most cases they say no. You know, AWS had a five year head start. Well, did they have a better price? Well, no, actually most cases Microsoft’s more expensive. Well, did did they have better promotion? Was their Super Bowl ad better? [00:20:44] Jay McBain: No, they’re both kind of crap. So you kind of ask the questions of what’s the only difference that could create growth above the leader in the market? Well, it’s place. More of the 6.3 partners are walking into those keyboard room meetings and drawing clouds up on the wall and labeling the Microsoft than they are AWS. [00:21:03] Jay McBain: Very simple. It’s never been about product. The best product in our industry has never won. And now the best way forward is that partnering moment, and this is the moment. So to go back to that story about the 53% of companies who are gonna fail, one of us is gonna be asked to write the book. And it could be the book like Kodak, they invented the product that ended up killing them. [00:21:26] Jay McBain: And it’s a woe is me story, but chapter one is always you blame the CEO. How could they not see those trends happening in 2026? How could they, you know, were they blind? Were they stuck in their own, you know, innovation chamber? Innovator’s dilemma, were they stuck in their own boardrooms? Why couldn’t they see? [00:21:46] Jay McBain: Well, chapter two, you, you blame the board. They have fiduciary responsibility, outsider view, and how could they not see it? But really, this is the future right here. If you take this slide and apply it 10 or 20 years from now to every failure and every success, these are the chapters of the book. Your buyer is now a millennial. [00:22:05] Jay McBain: As of last year, the 51% of our market is bought by people born after 1982. Different psychology, different behavior, different journey, different criteria, their integration. First buyers. The buy a product, 80% as good as the next one. If it works better in their environment. 94% of people won’t buy a car unless it has CarPlay or Android Auto. [00:22:26] Jay McBain: New Buyer. You have to be more integrated than your competitors. That’s a partnering story. The 6.3 partners. If you heard cyber, you need some great channel partnerships, but you need the other 5.3 partners as well, the consultants, the advisors, the designers, the architects, the implementers, the integrators, the manner service, all of the other partners. [00:22:44] Jay McBain: You need to know more of them than your competitors do, and have them label clouds with your name in them. You need better alliances. Even if you compete, you only compete in the morning. You’re best friends by the afternoon. You have to be tight with the hyperscalers, tight, with the big SaaS platforms, tight with cyber, tight with distribution, there are layers, seven layers to every deal. [00:23:04] Jay McBain: You gotta be tight in and have better alliances than your competitors. And then it all comes to the 28 moments, which I’m gonna end on, but the go to market of all of this, the co-selling, co-marketing, co-innovation, co-development, co keeping. This is it. Your product has to be good enough that somebody’s gonna renew it. [00:23:21] Jay McBain: Your Super Bowl has to be, you know, ad has to be good enough that people don’t, you know, shame you on social media. Your pricing has to be somewhere in a country mile of the bell curve of what the customer wants to pay. But successor failure is just here and platforms are synonymous with partnering. [00:23:40] Jay McBain: It’s our role now in the decade of the ecosystem to drive our companies forward. Marketplace. It’s probably the most predict, you know, great prediction we ever made. You know, growing at 82% compounded, it’s hard to predict ’cause it doubles almost every year. We were almost exact to the decimal point. Five years later now till 2030, we’re watching a second story, which is more interesting. [00:24:02] Jay McBain: If 96% of all deals have partners inside of them and there’s private offers and multi-partner offers and distributor sellers record all these funding mechanisms or services as a product. As of last week, over 50% of all deals in marketplaces now have partner funding. It means that while money changes hands differently, the respect and the recognition of what partners do is in the deal. [00:24:26] Jay McBain: We think that’s going to 59, but at some point, that’s gonna have to hit 96. ’cause to run the best programs, whether it’s an indirect sale, whether it’s a direct sale, whether it’s a marketplace deal, it doesn’t matter how money changes hands. What matters is we recognize the 6.3 partners. They’re not only making the deal happen bigger and faster, but renewing and enriching that every 30 days forever. [00:24:48] Jay McBain: When we watch, you know, billion dollar clubs and when we read all the press releases and all the hubbub about how fast this is growing and who, which companies are behind all this. When I’m quoted in some of these press releases, it’s because of this. You know, CrowdStrike, you know, brags are a billion dollars in a single year, but inside of that, they’re showing that 91% growth in marketplaces, which is pretty phenomenal for any company to almost double in size every single year. [00:25:17] Jay McBain: What’s more phenomenal is they’re growing the channel piece of it, 3548%. That green part of it is growing. Companies that understand platform and have people and processes and programs and technology to do it are winning. And they’re getting recognition and partners are starting to join the Billion Dollar Club who don’t sell a product, but are also winning at Extreme Scale. [00:25:44] Jay McBain: So talk about those partner 1000 and who are leaning in to win at this level. As well as everything changes, traditional billing moved into subscription models, moved into consumption models. Now we’re being tokenized to death multi it’s, it’s in this mode of micro consumption. There’s no chance there was little chance in subscription consumption that would be resold. [00:26:09] Jay McBain: You don’t buy Netflix from the cable guy in the white van. There’s zero chance when you’re buying tokens at a buck a piece that that’s going through any indirect sale. This continues to grow. Now the tectonic shifts is what happens when money changes hands differently. These old programs that we used to all write hundreds of different boxes, we checked every day on deal reg and trainings and all the other things are changing. [00:26:35] Jay McBain: To this, you’ll get these slides, by the way, in high res, inside of this now is the customer. For the first time ever, 45 years later, we have the customer in the middle of what we do, the 28 moments in green before they buy the seven layer stack and the partners inside it. The implementation. The integration, the managed services in a cycle that never ends, and two thirds of our industry. [00:26:55] Jay McBain: With the customer in the middle, we can now move money around to the different moments. It’s not all landing in front or backend margins or market development funds or new customer bonuses or spiffs. It’s landing where it needs to land. Over 400 companies now, pretty much led by Microsoft 400 companies are in a point system right now and 400 more. [00:27:18] Jay McBain: We’re working kind of behind the scenes to get that announced in the next 12 months. This is a total changeover in terms of how economics work and partners are yelling over half of us. I don’t care. Don’t call me a VAR anymore. Don’t call me an MSP. Don’t call me a regional system integrator. I do the consulting over half the time. [00:27:36] Jay McBain: I do the design, I do the implementations, I do the managed services, and 44% of us are vibe coding. On weekends. We’re not happy. Just on the services side. We wanna join the seven layer tech stack as well. These are partners growing faster than their vendors by understanding this cycle and where to show up and where the money is in ai. [00:27:56] Jay McBain: And the number one thing they’re asking for is not more leads, which they did for 45 years. The number one thing is now recognized for what I do. I’ve never just been a cash register. We’re completely now past this idea of a channel being a channel of distribution, and now a channel being this platform for the future. [00:28:16] Jay McBain: As we lay that on top of ai, the first couple of years of AI has really been consumer driven. The 95% failure rate that MIT reported last year is now 70%. That’s the failure to get from proof of concept to production. That 70 will be 50 by the summer we’re moving now in business, the maturity rates are going up at the end customer and in 88% of cases, that’s because of the channel. [00:28:43] Jay McBain: They’re working with partners. They’re not vibe coding themselves and working in little skunkwork groups. They’re working with partners to make it happen, and it now becomes the partner’s number one growth opportunity. I can grow at 11 or 12% in cyber every year. Compounded I can grow in 10% in managed services. [00:29:03] Jay McBain: You know, those are great double digit growth ’cause my customers are growing at 2.7% and I can go four x my customer, but I can go 10 x my customer if I have the right services built around ai. And this compounded growth rate and that big number in 2 20 32, 267 is what’s got those top 1000 partners obsessed. [00:29:25] Jay McBain: And your companies are leading with ai. Now you need to connect to those AI services. You need to get partners on this scale of growth. And they will be adding your name inside every cloud. They write on every whiteboard, but 82% of partners around the world, you know, we survey 25,000 of them aren’t ready, and they’re blaming vendors for not being ready, and they’re telling them exactly the workshops and the training that they need to get ready for this cycle. [00:29:53] Jay McBain: 82% of our entire partner, tens of millions of people, aren’t ready to grow at 35% and they need our help. Last thing I’ll say about AI is it’s the first time from client server to cloud, edge to cloud that it’s been segment driven. SMB alone has one, you know, six different segments, one to nine, 10 to 24, 25 to 49, et cetera. [00:30:18] Jay McBain: Mid-market into enterprise. No one that runs a restaurant is calling Jensen to buy a GPU to put next to the stove. No one’s calling Sam or Dario or anyone at Anthropic or OpenAI directly. They’re waiting. If you run a restaurant with all the people running around with tablets, you’ve invested in toast or square or clover or one of the platforms to run your business. [00:30:41] Jay McBain: A hundred different things. And you’re gonna wait for toast to work with a hyperscaler and build out the capabilities genetically. So when they see a spike in Uber Eats orders, they automatically place a food order and automatically change the staffing to deliver on it. That’s what the restaurant’s waiting for, and there’s no one calling and having a big a agent conversation. [00:31:03] Jay McBain: But even if you go into hundreds of people in medium sized business, every one of the vice presidents have their tech stack already built. I talked about the marketing person already, but the HR leader has one, and everybody’s got their seven layer stack. They’re not calling to buy a GPU and they’re not calling to, you know, bring in open AI directly or, or anthropic. [00:31:22] Jay McBain: They’re waiting for the platform they built to integrate together ag agenta capabilities. Everybody’s in wait mode up until enterprise and public, large public sector. So we are looking at this market and at 90% of that AI market is run by those thousand companies, and the rest of the millions of partners are helping in terms of how these businesses are gonna change at that level. [00:31:46] Jay McBain: Here’s where I end. You know, the 28 moments used to be a theory. It used to be a flywheel. How do we buy a car? [00:31:55] Vince Menzione: Well, we Google it, [00:31:57] Jay McBain: 81% of us now, 94% of us use large language models. We find out that there’s 365 brands of car. I’d have to test drive one every day of the year to get through them all. So we start narrowing these things down. [00:32:09] Jay McBain: We configure it. We put our rims on it, we color it. We download the invoice price. We download the backend rebates this month, whether I buy it in May or June, we find out what 5,000 people paid for our exact car within 50 miles of us. And then we don’t wanna go to the dealer because we know more than the salesperson, the manager ever will. [00:32:26] Jay McBain: We know what we’re gonna pay within, you know, dollars or cents. Just carvana the car. Hand me the keys. Let’s just forget the whole eight hour back and forth. I’ll get you a deal thing. I’m smarter than you in technology. Our customers are smarter than us, smarter than salespeople. That’s why 75% of millennials don’t wanna talk to a salesperson. [00:32:48] Jay McBain: They want to end digitally, and by the way, they’re not gonna send a fax after 28 digital moments. They’re gonna end on a digital marketplace. This is all demographics. It’s not hard to see where it’s going, but we’re getting into names, faces, places again. What if every dollar of your tam, the board, the CEO, runs around with their big multi-billion dollar number, they’re chasing? [00:33:09] Jay McBain: What if every single deal looks the exact same? This is a deal with AstraZeneca, A real deal, real customer spending millions of dollars. We know it starts in October, it ends in April. It’s a six month cycle. We see what they read, the MQ ls at the beginning. We see the sales demo moments. We see ISV, but we’ve never had the light blue boxes. [00:33:30] Jay McBain: What if we as a team could overlay the 6.3 partners in this deal? And when you find out a couple things. Here’s where I end. In December, five deals were one, three of them by NTT. The person at NTT probably coaches AstraZeneca’s, you know, kids’ soccer team. They probably have a cottage together at the lake. [00:33:50] Jay McBain: For the last 20 years, if the person at NTT worked at Deloitte, Deloitte would’ve run this deal. But Software One and Yash are both there, so we understand that when they were drawing clouds up on the wall in the boardroom in December, this deal was won and lost there. It was not won and lost at the point of sale. [00:34:09] Jay McBain: So what if you knew more about this and could see every dollar in your tam? You had an early warning system that this was happening. Two things jump out at this now that we’re in Bellevue. AWS was touched twice in this deal, directly in the marketing cycle and the sales cycle. AWS lost this deal. Here’s an example of Microsoft winning a deal with Microsoft never being touched. [00:34:34] Jay McBain: For some reason, NTT who won, who won AWS’s partner of the year a couple years ago led with Microsoft, so did Software one, Microsoft’s biggest reseller in Europe, and as did Yash, they all led with Microsoft and without Microsoft, knowing Microsoft took a multimillion dollar deal away from their competitors by winning in December. [00:34:53] Jay McBain: That’s one. Second. These partners didn’t just show up other than soccer and cottages. They didn’t show up in December. It went closed one in their CRM system. Back in the summer, August, September, we already knew AstraZeneca was in market, spending millions of dollars. We didn’t need them to read an ebook or go to an event to find that out. [00:35:17] Jay McBain: We knew it because it was closed one. They’re spending hundreds of thousands of dollars times five in December to know what to do at the end. This is an early warning system that’s better than any MQL, better than any SQL. And if you could give your company these level of view into their pipeline with an early warning system that I can work with those partners for months before they ever show up at the customer’s boardroom. [00:35:44] Jay McBain: This is it. Talk about 47% winners. This takes you from not only surviving the AI era to being a top five platform winner. Thank you very much. [00:36:01] Vince Menzione: Until next time, we’ll see you in person. Hopefully at our next event.

Today I want to talk about the relationship between a CRO and a Chief Product Officer, especially when they share OKRs.The first thing I'll say is that I love shared OKRs. They create accountability, trust, communication, and teamship. They force revenue and product leaders to work through challenges together instead of operating in silos.The challenge comes when the CRO is measured on bookings and revenue while the CPO is measured on adoption and product usage. Both leaders are trying to achieve business growth, but they're often looking at different data and hearing different signals from the market.So how do you solve that tension?For me, it starts with communication. The CRO needs to understand how the CPO prefers to receive feedback and market intelligence. Product teams don't just need complaints—they need patterns, context, and evidence that help them make informed roadmap decisions.This is especially important in HR tech because buyer expectations change quickly. The reasons HR leaders bought software a few years ago may be completely different from the reasons they're buying today.That's why companies need a structured way to gather market feedback and translate it into actionable insights for product teams. When that happens, product leaders gain more trust in revenue feedback, revenue leaders gain more appreciation for product constraints, and both teams become more aligned.At the end of the day, most CRO-CPO conflict isn't about each other. It's about reacting to pressure and trying to hit goals.The best leaders remember that neither side is the enemy. The market is simply providing information, and both teams need to respond to it together.When product and revenue align around what the market is actually telling them, shared OKRs become a true competitive advantage.

Industrial Talk is onsite at SMRP 2025 and talking to Tara Holwegner, Program Leader at Life Cycle Engineering about "Training is key to reliability success". Overview Scott Mackenzie from Industrial Talk interviews Tara Holwegner at the SMRP conference, highlighting IRISS electrical maintenance safety technologies and Lifecycle Engineering's 20-year history in training industrial professionals. Tara discusses the importance of upskilling, reskilling, and training, noting that 25% of respondents to her poll prioritize these issues. She emphasizes the need for a balanced approach to people, process, and technology. Tara also promotes Lifecycle Engineering's Smarter Playbook, which offers resources in five languages and six work streams, aiming to standardize best practices in maintenance and reliability. Outline Introduction and Welcome to Industrial Talk Podcast Scott Mackenzie introduces himself and the Industrial Talk podcast, emphasizing its focus on industry professionals and innovations.Scott welcomes listeners to the podcast, highlighting the importance of celebrating industry professionals.Scott mentions being at the SMRP conference and introduces Tara Holwegner, a recurring guest on the podcast.Tara expresses her excitement about being back at the SMRP conference and shares her background with Lifecycle Engineering. Tara's Background and Lifecycle Engineering Tara explains her role at Lifecycle Engineering, an engineering, maintenance, and reliability consulting firm.She mentions the Lifecycle Institute, which has been training industrial professionals for 20 years.Tara shares her certifications: CMRP, CRO, PMP, and her role as a certified instructional designer.She discusses the importance of building products and services to help professionals reach their full potential in the industry. Challenges and Focus Areas for 2025 Tara shares the results of a poll she conducted about the challenges and struggles professionals will face in the new year.The poll results indicate that upskilling, reskilling, or training is a significant concern for 25% of respondents.Standard work and process optimization, technology additions, and CMMS data integrity are also key areas of focus.Scott and Tara discuss the importance of addressing these challenges to improve reliability and efficiency in the industry. Importance of People, Process, and Technology Scott and Tara emphasize the need to focus on people, process, and technology to achieve reliable operations.Tara highlights the importance of getting the people and processes right before implementing technology.They discuss the role of technology in attracting new talent and the need for public-private partnerships to build interest in the industry.Scott and Tara agree on the importance of storytelling to inspire the next generation of industry professionals. Lifecycle Engineering's Smarter Playbook Tara introduces the Lifecycle Engineering Smarter Playbook, which provides best practices for maintenance and reliability.The playbook includes resources in five languages and covers six work streams with over 400 online resources.Tara mentions the expansion of the playbook to include eight online courses by the end of the year.She explains the playbook's role in helping organizations understand the value of reliable operations and standard work. Operational Readiness and Capital Projects Tara discusses the importance of operational readiness, especially for organizations undertaking large-scale capital projects.She explains the need for designing reliability into new assets and having maintenance plans for the life of the asset.Tara highlights the role of Lifecycle Engineering in helping organizations achieve operational readiness.Scott and Tara discuss the challenges of sustaining reliability and the need for active leadership and commitment. The Role of Leadership and Collaboration Scott and Tara discuss the challenges of leadership churn and the need for consistent commitment to reliability.They emphasize the importance of collaboration and finding trusted advisors to help organizations succeed.Tara shares her experience of Lifecycle Engineering's commitment to helping clients even after projects are completed.They agree on the need for a broad understanding of reliability and maintenance across different roles within an organization. The Importance of Education and Training Tara stresses the importance of continuous education and training for professionals in the industry.She highlights the increased demand for certification programs and the need for organizations to invest in their employees' growth.Scott and Tara discuss the role of technology in enhancing training and education.They emphasize the need for a comprehensive approach to training, covering all levels of an organization. Conclusion and Call to Action Scott and Tara wrap up the conversation by emphasizing the importance of the SMRP conference for industry professionals.They encourage listeners to connect with Tara and other industry experts to learn and collaborate.Scott highlights the role of Industrial Talk in helping organizations tell their stories and succeed.They conclude by encouraging listeners to be bold, brave, and daring in their approach to industry challenges. If interested in being on the Industrial Talk show, simply contact us and let's have a quick conversation. Finally, get your exclusive free access to the Industrial Academy and a series on “Why You Need To Podcast” for Greater Success in 2026. All links designed for keeping you current in this rapidly changing Industrial Market. Learn! Grow! Enjoy! TARA HOLWEGNER'S CONTACT INFORMATION: Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taradenton/ Company LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/life-cycle-engineering/posts/?feedView=all Company Website: https://www.lce.com/ PODCAST VIDEO: https://youtu.be/VAmsGWFdNQU THE STRATEGIC REASON "WHY YOU NEED TO PODCAST": OTHER GREAT INDUSTRIAL RESOURCES: NEOM: https://www.neom.com/en-us Hexagon: https://hexagon.com/ Arduino: https://www.arduino.cc/ Fictiv: https://www.fictiv.com/ Hitachi Vantara: https://www.hitachivantara.com/en-us/home.html Industrial Marketing Solutions:  https://industrialtalk.com/industrial-marketing/ Industrial Academy: https://industrialtalk.com/industrial-academy/ Industrial Dojo: https://industrialtalk.com/industrial_dojo/ We the 15: https://www.wethe15.org/ YOUR INDUSTRIAL DIGITAL TOOLBOX: LifterLMS: Get One Month Free for $1 – https://lifterlms.com/ Active Campaign: Active Campaign Link Social Jukebox: https://www.socialjukebox.com/ Industrial Academy (One Month Free Access And One Free License For Future Industrial Leader): Business Beatitude the Book Do you desire a more joy-filled, deeply-enduring sense of accomplishment and success? Live your...

We sit down with Bridget Winston to unpack what separates a real Chief Revenue Officer from a bookings-focused sales leader, and why the org chart tells you the truth faster than the job title. We get practical about SaaS metrics, AI-driven go-to-market, and the leadership habits that keep teams performing as the playbook keeps changing.• Evaluating a CRO remit by reporting lines and revenue accountability• Using GRR and NRR to diagnose product-market fit and ICP clarity• Treating revenue as a lagging indicator of customer centricity• Preparing for LLM-driven discovery with brand, PR, and earned media• Testing AI tools that shrink territory and quota planning cycles• Shifting budget from paid ads to community-led growth and local events• Turning customer testimonials into repeatable social proof loops• Managing humans and AI agents with specific, camera-ready feedback• Fixing incentives and systems before blaming the team• Creating urgency with day-five impact expectations instead of tired 30-60-90 plansYour org chart can tell you whether you're hiring a true Chief Revenue Officer or just renaming a VP of Sales. We sit down with Bridget Winston, CRO at Patient Now and a three-time CRO, to get brutally clear on what revenue ownership actually means and why “bookings” is a dangerous north star when retention and expansion are what compound.We dig into the SaaS metrics that expose reality fast: GRR, NRR, LTV to CAC, and how boards interpret dashboards when product-market fit and ideal customer profile are still shaky. Bridget shares a sharp reframing that stuck with us: revenue is a lagging indicator of customer centricity. From there, we zoom out to the “SaaS-pocalypse” conversation and what happens to pricing, planning cycles, and revenue per employee as AI turns some companies into dinosaurs and others into cheetahs.Then we get tactical about the LLM era of B2B discovery. If buyers are finding software through ChatGPT-style answers, Reddit threads, G2-style reviews, and YouTube, we need consumer-grade brand building, PR, and community-led growth that creates earned media AI can't ignore. Bridget also breaks down AI tools she's used to compress territory planning and quota work from months to weeks, plus AI coaching that improves call quality and handoffs without blowing up day-to-day operations.We even take a fun detour into Spark Tank wine trivia, then bring it back to leadership: how to give feedback with real specificity, fix systems before blaming people, and set expectations for day-one impact. Subscribe, share this with a revenue leader, and leave a review so more builders can find the show.Bridget Winston:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/bridgetwinston/Bridget Winston is the Chief Revenue Officer at PatientNow, leading go-to-market and customer-facing teams across a rapidly growing vertical SaaS platform in the fast-expanding $20 billion aesthetics and wellness industry.  A three-time CRO with over 20 years of experience, Bridget was formerly the CRO at Chief, where she led membership growth and helped the company reach a $1.1 billion valuation. During her tenure, Chief was recognized by TIME as one of the 100 Most Influential Companies and by Fast Company as one of the Most Innovative Companies. Before that, Bridget served as the CRO at Shutterstock, growing revenue to $300 million.Website: https://www.position2.com/podcast/Rajiv Parikh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajivparikh/Email us with any feedback for the show: sparkofages.podcast@position2.com

Join the FICPA and longtime FICPA member Dan Henn each month as we host dynamic interview-style sessions designed to spark meaningful industry conversations. "The Practitioner's Edge” delivers practical insights for CPAs and professionals in small firms. Each episode explores strategies, trends and real-world solutions to help you run a stronger practice, serve clients better and stay ahead in a changing profession. This month, we're joined by Andy Row, CRO with CPA Site Solutions, to discuss the transformative power of tax automation for small firms. He emphasizes how shifting away from manual data entry allows practitioners to focus on high-value advisory services, ultimately increasing firm capacity without adding headcount. Roe provides a roadmap for firms to navigate the "tax automation journey," highlighting that the most successful practitioners are those who embrace standardized workflows and modern technology to solve the perennial staffing and capacity challenges facing the profession. "Automation isn't just about saving time; it's about creating the capacity to be the advisor your clients actually want you to be." Andrew Roe | LinkedIn   FICPA Members: Discover additional tools and resources in the FICPA Small Firm Suite at Small Firm Suite - Florida Institute of CPAs.

Sara Arslan sorgt gerade überall für Gesprächsstoff. Parallel zum Erfolg von „Take me Späti“ eskaliert der öffentliche Streit mit ihrem ehemaligen Management. Es geht um Geld, Ownership, Credits und die Frage, wem ein Creator-Format wirklich gehört. Mit „Take Me Späti“ hat sie ein Interviewformat geschaffen, das stark von Internetkultur und unangenehmer Direktheit lebt. Die Clips gehen millionenfach viral, Künstler wie Cro oder Mark Forster setzen sich freiwillig ihren Fragen aus und geraten dabei immer wieder sichtbar aus ihrer Komfortzone. Im Podcast spricht Sara offen über den Konflikt, ihre Zeit im Jurastudium, frühen Internet-Fame auf Ask.fm und warum sie glaubt, dass Shisha-Cafés die beste Vorbereitung aufs Interviewen waren. Hier die Folge auf YouTube anschauen! Worüber gesprochen wird: * Der Streit um „Take me Späti“ und die Ownership-Frage * Wie Sara virale Interviews fast komplett unvorbereitet führt * Warum Gäste sich sich auf ihre direkten Fragen einlassen * Öffentlichkeit, Hate und Selbstbewusstsein im Internet * Von Ask.fm bis Podcast-Hype: Saras Weg ins Rampenlicht Timecodes:  00:00:00 - 00:04:10 Intro 00:04:10 - 00:21:10 Zwischen Jura, Ask.fm und Internet-Fame 00:21:10 - 00:32:30 Wie „Take me Späti“ entstanden ist 00:32:30 - 00:43:49 Warum ihre Interviews so gut funktionieren 00:43:49 - 01:16:32 Streit um Ownership und Ex-Management In der Folge erwähnt:  Baby got Business auf YouTube Take Me Späti Laura Abla La Familia House of Reality Take Me Späti Folge mit Cro Take Me Späti Folge mit Mark Forster Chicken Shop Date Werbung: Hier findet ihr alle aktuellen Supporter unseres Podcasts & aktuelle Rabattcodes. Social Media Editing Crash Kurs am 23. Juni 2026 Reels schneiden, die nicht nach Trial-and-Error aussehen? Im Crash Kurs lernst du Editing-Workflows, Tools und Techniken für Content, der auf Social Media funktioniert. Der Invest liegt bei 890 € (zzgl. MwSt.) pro Kurs. Also, worauf wartest du? Sichere dir jetzt deinen Platz! Hier findest du mehr über uns:  Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Impressum⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week I welcome Alisa Scharf, Chief AI Officer at Seer Interactive, to the podcast, to ask the question she fires back at every client who walks in wanting to "win at AI visibility." Her answer flips the whole project: fix what the models get wrong about you before you chase the category terms. We got into her research on why lower-authority websites earn more citations, why LLMs recommend a brand only 2.3% of the time, and the gap nobody is tooling for: getting an agent to actually use your website, not find it.About the GuestAlisa Scharf is Chief AI Officer at Seer Interactive, where she runs the AI practice across the agency's client accounts. Her team's research spans hundreds of thousands of pages and tens of thousands of prompts, and she argues that citations are a leading indicator, not a business outcome.Chapters00:00 - The first question Alisa asks a new client04:08 - Brand accuracy: what models get wrong about you06:57 - Defense wins championships09:54 - The brand accuracy audit13:12 - Why lower-authority websites get cited more15:57 - Citations are page two of Google19:37 - LLMs recommend a brand 2.3% of the time21:49 - The agentic browsing tooling gap28:13 - Losing 30-80% of organic traffic37:31 - How a 15-year-old brand catches up40:24 - What we will get wrong in 12 months43:18 - Where to find AlisaKey TakeawaysDefense before offense. Pick five factual prompts about your own company, founding, location, what you sell, who you compete with, and run them across ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini. Fix what the models get wrong before you spend a dollar chasing category terms.Citations are a leading indicator, not a result. They swing by month and by model. Real success shows up in direct traffic, branded search, and brand recognition, none of which sit neatly on a dashboard.Visibility is not readiness. Getting cited and getting an agent to actually buy, book, or provision on a customer's behalf are two different problems. Most providers sell the first and call it the second.Notable Quotes"You can flip an old house and turn it into a really impressive place to live. You can't flip an old house and turn it into a skyscraper.""Everything we just spent the last 10, 15, 20 years learning is now doing you a disservice, because you really have to turn to a fresh page and say, where is my audience?"ResourcesSeer Interactive: https://www.seerinteractive.comSeer insights and research: https://www.seerinteractive.com/insightsNo Hacks EP 222, Wil Reynolds, AI visibility is a vanity metric: https://nohacks.co/episode/222-ai-visibility-is-a-vanity-metric-with-wil-reynoldsNo Hacks EP 225, Matt Biilmann on agent experience: https://nohacks.co/episode/225-every-website-already-has-an-agent-experience-and-most-are-bad-with-netlify-ceo-matt-biilmannSparkToro: https://sparktoro.comConnect with Alisa ScharfLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisascharf/X: https://x.com/alisa_scharfBio: https://www.seerinteractive.com/people/team/alisa-scharfNo Hacks is a publication about the agentic web. Articles, a weekly podcast, and a newsletter for SEO, CRO, and web professionals who want to stay visible, trusted, and findable as agents take over. Hosted by Slobodan "Sani" Manic.Subscribe at https://nohacks.co/subscribe

"A CRO told us the word our customers cared about most was extensibility. I'm a marketer — I've never used that word in my life."When was the last time marketing had a real say in what got built? In most B2B SaaS companies, engineers and founders own the product, and marketers inherit whatever comes out the other end. Matt Sciannella and Liam Moroney explore what it would look like for marketers to genuinely influence product direction — not by taking over, but by asking the questions nobody else is asking. Keywords: B2B marketing strategy, product marketing, market research, customer discovery, SaaS go-to-market.

I'm excited to work with Microsoft once again as the presenting sponsors of the AI Engineer World's Fair! We'll streaming live from MS Build today for a special crossover pod with our friends at No Priors and the one and only Satya Nadella. However we did not hold back with this interview - we asked all the burning questions about uptime and Copilot that we know you have in your minds. Lets go!For almost two decades, GitHub has been the home of software, where both open source and closed flow, through commits, pull requests, reviews, actions, etc.This ecosystem flourished as open-source maintainers and contributors would continue shipping code for the benefit of the community. However as coding agents began to ship mass quantities of code - growing 1400% in 2026, it marked a new era that was both extremely exciting and challenging for GitHub.While these agents help more people ship more projects, they also significantly increase the floor of how much code is shipped, how often it is shipped, how many people commit code, and basically orders of magnitude multiples in every dimension of GitHub infrastructure:Now GitHub inevitably experiences more pressure on their infrastructure which was originally designed around human developers moving at human speed. This has resulted in a very publicly notable uptime story:So it begs the question of whether current systems around code can absorb what AI produces. Can CI/CD keep up when every idea becomes a build? Can open source maintainers survive floods of AI-generated slop contributions? Can GitHub preserve the human social contract of software while becoming the operating layer for agents?Which brings us to the perfect person to answer these questions: GitHub COO Kyle Daigle. In this episode, he joins swyx to unpack what happens when AI doesn't just autocomplete code, but starts changing how companies operate, how open source works, how pull requests get reviewed, and how GitHub itself has to scale. We go deep on GitHub's internal AI workflows: micro-skills, WorkIQ, MCP, Slack, Teams, email, Copilot workflows, the new Copilot desktop app, CLI, cloud agents, and how Kyle uses agents to look backwards across company context before deciding what to do next. Kyle also reflects on GitHub's history building webhooks, APIs, Actions, npm, Dependabot, and Semmle, why the AI era is breaking GitHub in new ways, how Actions became a general-purpose compute layer, and what Copilot becomes after code completion.Full Video PodWe discuss:* Kyle's expanded role across GitHub* How AI got Kyle coding again after years in leadership* Why GitHub rolls out AI through existing workflows instead of forcing new tools* WorkIQ, MCP, Slack, Teams, email, and GitHub as company context* Why massive “mega-skills” are giving way to small, atomic micro-skills* How AI changes summarization, communications, marketing, and analyst work* Why former developers in leadership may have a unique advantage in the AI era* Kyle's “15 agents on Saturday” workflow* How Kyle built an AI-generated executive presentation for CRO/CFO teams* Why AI changes the chief of staff role without removing the human work* GitHub Actions, webhooks, arbitrary code execution, and secure agent compute* The npm acquisition, supply-chain security, 2FA, and token invalidation* Slop forks, vendoring, and whether AI agents change dependency management* What pull requests become when most PRs come from agents* Prompt requests, vouching, AI review, and trust in open source* What counts as a “developer” when AI lowers the barrier to building* GitHub Spark, low-code, and why GitHub refuses to hide the code* 14x commit growth, Actions load, databases, monorepos, and availability* Copilot's evolution from completion to CLI, desktop app, cloud agents, and SDK* Context, memory, rules, and making GitHub “act like Kyle wants it to act”* Ambient AI, OpenClaw, enterprise security, and the new operating system for agents* What swyx should ask Satya Nadella about Microsoft's AI futureKyle Daigle* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyledaigle* X: https://x.com/kdaigleTimestamps00:00:00 Introduction00:03:36 Why AI Got Kyle Coding Again00:07:04 Running GitHub with AI: WorkIQ, MCP, Slack, Teams, and Skills00:15:39 The Golden Age for Former Developers in Leadership00:17:31 15 Agents on Saturday and AI-Generated Executive Work00:20:20 How AI Changes the Chief of Staff Role00:21:45 GitHub's History: Actions, npm, Webhooks, and Open Source00:28:45 Slop Forks, Vendoring, and AI Dependency Management00:33:57 Pull Requests, Prompt Requests, and Trust in Agent-Generated Code00:41:21 GitHub Stars, 200M+ Developers, and the New AI Builder Wave00:45:15 GitHub Spark, Low-Code, and Why GitHub Still Shows the Code00:47:38 GitHub's Hardest Era: 14x Growth, Reliability, and Scale00:59:21 Actions as the Compute Layer for CI/CD and Automation01:02:04 The State and Future of GitHub Copilot01:08:24 Ambient AI, Background Agents, and the Future of the SDLC01:13:09 OpenClaw, Enterprise Security, and the New OS for Agents01:18:03 Build Announcements, WorkIQ, FoundryIQ, and Microsoft Context01:21:41 What Should swyx Ask Satya?TranscriptIntroduction: Kyle Daigle's Expanded Role at GitHub and MicrosoftSwyx [00:00:00]: We're here with Kyle Daigle, COO of GitHub. Welcome.Kyle [00:00:07]: Hey, thanks for having me.Swyx [00:00:08]: You're not just CEO of GitHub. People know you as that. You have a new role.Kyle [00:00:11]: So I have an expanded role now. I've been working at GitHub for thirteen years and doing all things developer. Joined as a developer myself. And now, I'm also responsible as the CMO of Developer for Microsoft. And so all the kind of learnings and passion for developers and how we work with them and how we communicate and how we bring our products to market, we're also bringing that expertise to the broader Microsoft ecosystem and helping every developer that uses a Microsoft product or would like to have a sort of similar experience that they've had with GitHub over the years. So it's a different role in some ways, but it's also just building on the experience that I've had at GitHub of just sort of tell the truth, be authentic, show people how to use it and then let the products speak for themselves. Now just doing that with, all of Microsoft.Swyx [00:01:09]: We'll be releasing this in conjunction with Build. You got lots of stuff planned, and we can sort of touch on that whenever it's appropriate. I think one of the interesting things is I rarely meet a COO who's also a CMO. I think you're a very outward facing and you're very confident publicly. That's rare. Do you actually view yourself as COO? What's What is your thing?From GitHub Developer to COO/CMO: Building the Platform and Operating GitHubKyle [00:01:33]: I think for me, it's been funny. The titles have always been, a— have always felt a little strange to me. I joined GitHub as a developer? I wrote so much of theSwyx [00:01:46]: Let's bring that up. You wrote the back ends?Kyle [00:01:48]: I was going through, I was going through, some old photos, when folks were talking about how things were being built or how there was a build GitHub. I built, webhooks and worked with teams building the API, built the platform layer. Anything that integrated with GitHub, up until really twenty eighteen, I built or ran the engineering teams. And that's kind of where my the beginning of my passion always was helping people build things, deliver them to, their customers. And so being a developer, building for developers was always super unique. In a— I think as my role expanded, it became my ability to talk to not just developers, but also enterprise customers or business leaders and have this translation layer. And then through all those years, GitHub has always operated pretty uniquely. Post-pandemic, working remotely was not as novel as it was when GitHub started in two thousand and eight. But all that expertise of running remote teams, doing it well, became this sort of bigger role, ultimately turning into the COO role of how do we operate GitHub in the way that GitHub's always operated after the Microsoft acquisition. And kind of so on from there. So like for me, I think the— I've, I still code. I love coding but the problem has always been, people. It's a much harder problem to both support our own employees, a harder problem to communicate to developers and enterprise buyers what we're building why it matters, ‘cause those are two very different messages. And so getting to work in the mix of COO, CMO, also just being a dev, I think is what's kept me at GitHub for so long.AI Workflows for Leadership: Commits, Retrospectives, and ContextSwyx [00:03:40]: Apparently, you have— your commits have gone up. What's this? What's going on?Kyle [00:03:45]: Rui's called me out pretty aggressively. So I think— as you can imagine, right, you can see my normal era of being a dev In the twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen era, and then moving into management, and then ultimately the COO role. I think what you see there is me, really getting back to coding thanks to AI. I— similar to, attaching problems between how to market and how to operate a business and how to code, I find, building agents and workflows that are connecting very disparate problems to be what's driving this. So that's, some of it's writing software. A lot of it is, connecting a ton of a different data sources to, help me out. But that is completely me really diving in on the AI side in trying out our tools, trying out everyone's tools, But building for me, building for the non-technical leader, though I'm technical and how we're, able to use these tools more than just the simple, call and response that I think a lot of the non-technical, your employers, you have to get— you have to use AI, and so everyone uses, ChatGPT or Copilot or Claude or whatever. To really get into, how is this going to help me out, it— I find that it's not the I need to write a blog post, I need to those simple examples. Helping people find the workflows of, “Okay, I need you to go through all the PRs today. I need you to go through everything that we've posted online. I need you to go through what we did the last three months. Go through all of my Obsidian notes for any mentions of this then go through my transcripts at work.” We use, Teams, so, using WorkIQ, go call that MCP server, grab all the transcripts, go through all the Slack, and then build me out the plan of, what this week's messaging actually was. That's something that was, impossible because for me, I find AI in a what most of this launch here is actually, less building forward. It's actually, a recursive loop backwards. I'm always looking at what had happened first. Go back through the week and tell me what we did, what worked, what didn't work? And then tell me in the next three or four days-What would you tweak based on this sort of like looking backwards and then looking ahead a little bit? I find that to be so much more valuable, especially for like non-technical, because that retrospection is actually LLMs are very good at that. Like finding all the patterns, pulling them out, and then applying that retrospection to just a couple of days or just like a short period of time. Is all a bunch of apps that I've built and launched a bunch of, internal tools. I use the new, GitHub Copilot app, the desktop app with workflows. Every time I crack open my laptop, it's running workflows for me. It's just a ton of different stuff and of course, it all ends up on, it all ends up on GitHub.Swyx [00:06:47]: Of course. That's where, that's where, stuff is hosted. Man, there's so much to ask you. I was going to leave the how do you run a company with AI thing at the end. I have to ask one— double click one thing. You said, you are looking back at the week. You're, you're understanding what happens. When you say we That's three thousand people. How?Rolling Out AI Internally: Skills, CLIs, and Company ContextKyle [00:07:09]: I think when we started rolling out AI internally beyond engineering, right? One of the things that I was really, passionate about is like we have to do this in a way where no one has to change how they work. I don't want to have to teach you a tool. I don't want to have to teach you something new. And so for us, we tried out a few tools. Most of them don't work because I got to get you on board? I got to teach you how to use it. What we've actually ended up doing is we've built like a set of skills internally. We have we each have our set of skills, and we've just been distributing even to the non-technical folks, the CLI. And then effectively, we're just giving it access to like read about everything that we're writing. So that's for us, that's usually GitHub, Teams, Email, and Slack. So Teams for, video chat, generally speaking.Swyx [00:08:03]: Teams and Slack?Kyle [00:08:04]: so we use Teams for video communication, but we don't use it for chat. W-we— GitHub for a long history, right? We're alwaysSwyx [00:08:13]: Also SlackKyle [00:08:14]: Talking about ChatOps and like everything is built into Slack. Like every command, every flow.Swyx [00:08:18]: So even though you have been acquired for I don't know, eight years nowKyle [00:08:22]: we stillSwyx [00:08:23]: You still use Slack?Kyle [00:08:23]: it's a purpose-built tool for us, and I think the reality is that moving off of it would be so bluntly expensive? Simply because all the tooling is, baked in with that paradigm. And they both have their pros and cons but they don't work the same way at all. We still use a bunch of different tools Because it's the purpose-built tools that We need. And thenSwyx [00:08:47]: Well, the same doesn't go for the rest of Microsoft, presumably.Kyle [00:08:50]: like the like various teams like operateSwyx [00:08:53]: They make their own decisionsKyle [00:08:54]: Various ways. I think it just matters what you're trying to what you're trying to do. But we do we do work across kind of every tool that we use, and then by giving everyone access to all of that context and the new WorkIQ MCP server, which is quite cool if you do live in the M365 like world. I can ask it all these backwards-facing questions, and it's incredibly important for our teams that are working remotely. There's a lot of stuff you miss when you're not in an office, and we are spread out all over the world. So most of that is looking back. And then we post, we post either auto-automatically into GitHub issues or discussions, these sorts of like findings or like our industry reports. Like what's happening this morning, today, yesterday. A little automation gets run. We'll use the app. We might use GitHub Actions like with, our agentic workflows just to go do that run, and then we push it into GitHub, and w-we keep having a conversation. So usually for us, it's about that sort of like looking back, looking forward on the non-technical side. And then of course for a lot of those folks, it's also building an app, pushing it to GitHub pages or pushing it somewhere to host it et cetera. But it's just like enabling everyone with that power of it's going to take me a week to figure this out. Instead, we're going “Okay I built a skill. Let's put it into a repo. We'll all share that skill together, and then we'll use the CLI or now the app-” “just to run it.”Micro Skills vs. Mega Skills: How GitHub Uses AI at WorkSwyx [00:10:26]: All right. I think, I think we're going straight into like the team management and productivity thing. I think a lot of people are getting various levels of LLM psychosis. How do you manage the bloat of skills? Like everyone Has their thing, and they're Like trying to promote it to the rest of their peers in their org, right? And obviously, whoever becomes a skill influencer internally becomes like an AI leader, right? Of sorts. I assume you have those.Kyle [00:10:50]: like I think we haveSwyx [00:10:52]: And I assume it's a mess a Yeah.Kyle [00:10:54]: there's like I— like I think the reality is there's two pieces. Like first is I think that we're ending the era of these like massive, beautiful, perfect skills that are just like not any of those things. ‘cause for a while, right every tweet every day is like go download the skills, the perfectly managed thing to do this entire workflow. And I think that like what we've found and what— I was just with my team, this week, and we were talking about the skill side, and we're really talking about these like incredibly micro skills that are just doing one thing for us very well Versus a skill that's going to do I said, that full report. That doesn't really exist on our side anymore. It's usually how do— like a single skill that's going to identify the most important marketing information given any MCP server. Like this is the most important thing. Less about stitch a bunch of tools together and have it produce this mega output because then weeks go by, months go by, things change, and you want to tweakSwyx [00:11:58]: It's brittleKyle [00:11:58]: Your mega skill and you're screwed? You can't do that. And so now we're really just talking about the Legos we're using and just letting the instruction book be something we're all putting together. Whereas I think a lot of AI skills for a while have been that mega instruction book style.Swyx [00:12:15]: I've, thought a lot about Postel's law. I don't know if that's a term that is, means things to folks. It's the idea that you should be liberal in what you accept and strict in what you output, right? And I think that's like a good framing principle for skills. This is my skills, obviously on GitHub. I feel like everyone should have like how like some repos In GitHub are special repos? I feel like we should sort of reify the slash skills and everyone like give it some kind of special presentation. Anyway, so, yeah, this is one of those like download Download anything, transcribe anything, and then you can string together the atomic skills that do one thing well Into like some kind of orchestration skill that calls other skills. I assume, does that match?Kyle [00:12:56]: I like I think so. I think that theSwyx [00:13:00]: Summarize anything.Kyle [00:13:01]: Like I think the- For me, summarizing something for I do communications and PR and analyst relations and marketing and customer activities, and so my summarize everything is very different for each one of those like Contexts. What ‘Cause if I'm summarizing something for an analyst, that's a very different thing than, probably how I'm going to summarize something for like a customer meeting or an engagement. So that's I think like the difference when we're talking about the like the tools I might use on Saturday or the skills I might use on a Saturday when it's just for Kyle. Yeah, those are kind of like they have an atomic actual tool underneath or maybe skill, and then Kyle cares about X. But I think when we're talking about work and enabling the the marketers, communicators there, it's the atomic, this is what good summarization is, and then this is what I care about as for marketing for communications For whatever. And that I think is like the interesting matrix problem when we go from like a developer set of concerns to all kinds of different professions, is that what that word means to me is different than it means to you is different than it means to the analyst or the salesperson, and that's where I think the matrix mess is that we're starting to like still starting to find. It's about these mega skills but they're all just slight permutations, but those permutations are really important. It's the difference between someone reading this and going “Did AI make this?” what Or “This makes total sense, and I would expect this when I'm giving a briefing to Gartner,” or like whatever else.Swyx [00:14:37]: I think the beauty of it maybe is that you don't have to be that careful about what goes in there. It doesn't have to exactly fit as long as it like roughly is contained in there. I used to complain about plugin hell, basically. Like when you have a framework and then you have a hundred things that you need to integrate, everyone does like the GitHub used to be bloated full of these things. And now we don't need them anymore ‘cause now you just use skills.Former Developers in Leadership: AI as a Creation MultiplierKyle [00:15:00]: And like I think the most magical thing is the just that like I can just also crack it open. Like Like yes, I could go like change the how the plugin is coded, or like I could go do that now with AI, but I think there's just something more magical about getting a response back and being “That's not right,” and then you just crack the skill open, you just type English words and it's different. That building block is just, I think very unique. Once I get everyone to kind of understand how to best how to best make those changes to get the most power out of them.Swyx [00:15:36]: Is there a— you have a your peer group that Of people like you. Is there a common framing for Something I'm feeling is, which is true, is that is this a golden age for former developers who are now in leadership? Because you can wield the tools, you would know the right words, you're maybe not too close to the details. Doesn't matter. But like you're more effective than someone who doesn't come from that background.Kyle [00:15:59]: I think that like the secret has always been your ability to identify patterns and solve problems, and I think that for folks that like myself that don't code day to day anymore, that has made me successful as a developer, made me successful as a COO and now CMO. And so now that I have access to get and write code, I'm now applying that sort of like pattern finding and problem solving, and I know enough still about how to then go and say, “Oh, I want to make an app, but I don't want to break into jail or create something that's not going to be able to work or to be deployed scale or whatever.” that ability to apply all that additional business knowledge and still code I think is what makes that so interesting to me. Slightly different than I think some of the other like technical leaders that became business leaders and now are going back to their apps and updating them. Good for them? But I think the more, much more interesting thing is, well, now I have this whole new set of expertise over ten plus years. Why not take that and use that as a developer with these AI tools? So I definitely think that makes me more powerful, but I think that's true for like every dev as well. Most of the dev friends I still have also have some other underlying skill and passion. There's really talented, very kind of linear computer science software devs, absolutely. I just find that the folks that came from a different career, went to school for something else, went off and did this random thing, and then became a software dev, or were a dev, did a random thing, came back. Learning that extra set of information, learning those extra skills, and now having the power of an AI where I can crank up fifteen agents on Saturday while my kids are doing lacrosse, That's like really powerful. And I think it gets me back to that feeling of like creation, and it's very hard to replicate that in most other senses? That first time you build an app and you click it and you show someone that's magical. And so being able to do that not just in code, but across all kinds of different assets that's, that's huge. We were doing we're doing our every year we do our revenue planning. We talk about okay, what is it going to look like for next year? And of course as you imagine, there's, slideshows everywhere talking about what are we going to talk about, what's the narrative, et cetera. And so as you said I'm “Okay, well, I could probably just like build something to build this and then that way I don't have to go build the whole spreadsheet or I have to pass it to my team.” So we went through this process, and I got all the information and used the skills I mentioned. I built like a little app just to make it so I could look at some of the information in a SQLite database, more easily. And I ultimately built this entire presentation without touching any of it and I was “Okay, I'm just going to present this to our CRO, the CFO, their teams,” without mentioning I'd built it with AI. I like built a skill to make it look very much not AI driven. Just not pretty.AI-Generated Presentations, Human Taste, and the Changing Chief of Staff RoleSwyx [00:19:03]: Like a design. Yeah.Kyle [00:19:03]: Not pretty. But just like very clearly not AI. Kind of like don't do anything interesting.Swyx [00:19:08]: That's, yeah, that is valuable.Kyle [00:19:08]: Just go Exactly. We did the whole thing through. It used my notes from Obsidian, it used all the context I mentioned before, the plans, and Never came up once that it was AI generated.Swyx [00:19:20]: It didn't matter.Kyle [00:19:20]: Never once. D It didn't matter. And so now I takeSwyx [00:19:23]: This is a toolKyle [00:19:23]: I can take that tool and go, “Look, I don't want you to go build slideshows.” They're just helping us share information with each other. If this thing can do it With a little bit of crafting from you and then we can look at it together, awesome. There's no value in all that extra work. I think that the ability to, make it look humanly bad and and build a little app to, manipulate the data I think is part of, that upside for devs that are now in leadership roles. Because, the thing that I feel like I said before, this that's all a people, that's all a people problem. I know if you've used a coworker or not to build a slide deck, unless you spent a bunch of time to not do it.Swyx [00:20:07]: I know, but like it was so, I think there's a certain charm to just being blatantly AI. ‘Cause I think that you're well, you're just honest about There may be mistakes here that I cannot vouch for. So how much value is there? But anyway I think, actually the real question I want to ask is, there's a— You were a chief of staff To Thomas. And in the pre-AI world, the that job would've been a chief of staff job of like Can you prep me these slides and all that? And now you do it yourself.Kyle [00:20:35]: I still, I still have a chief of staff. Because, the difference is it's sort of the discussion every time we have some sort of technology evolution is it's not that the jobs the roles don't all go away, they just change? And so yeah, I don't have someone spending all their time building out slides for me and presentations ‘cause I don't need that anymore. But now I need that person that is able to go and find all the different connections between humans in those discussions to help me find out, okay, I should be meeting with this group and this team, and they have an opportunity, and I'm going to be in San Francisco today, I'm going to be in Seattle tomorrow. Those sorts of human connection aspects are still incredibly valuable and has always been a big part of that chief of staff role. But now just like chiefs of staff are not opening up, letters to process, they're doing emails. What It's the same thing. And now they're, they're not building out as many of these presentations because they have the the ability to have a AI take it on for, and share that with me and great. Let's keep moving ‘cause it's allowing us to go faster and make better decisions more quickly.Swyx [00:21:45]: Awesome. Well, so we can dive into more sort of, Productivity insights as you go. I did want to do a little bit of a brief history of colleague and hub. Because, we started here. And then you also involved the NPM acquisition. I did, I do want to touch upon that. And then more recently, I just want to bring up to present day where we're having uptime issues Which transparently we've already Addressed publicly, but we'll, we'll discuss in the pod. Did I miss anything? Like what, any other major highlights? Obviously, it's, it's a lot of years to cover.A Brief History of GitHub: Webhooks, Actions, Acquisitions, and Platform EvolutionKyle [00:22:15]: No the I think one of one highlight was right before the acquisition closed in twenty eighteen, I got to launch the first version of ActionsSwyx [00:22:27]: OhKyle [00:22:27]: At GitHub Universe. So it was OSwyx [00:22:29]: They're that young?Kyle [00:22:30]: It was October of twenty eighteen, I think. Yeah. Yeah.Swyx [00:22:33]: Gee, Jesus.Kyle [00:22:34]: I got to I was the engineering leader on that project and got to launch that. And then, yeah, we did acquisitions of NPM you said, Semmle, Dependabot Pul Panda a whole bunch of things. That was a bigSwyx [00:22:47]: Pul Panda.Kyle [00:22:48]: Abi is doing well.Swyx [00:22:51]: DX. Holy crap.Kyle [00:22:52]: Did well on DX. I and like that was a that was the big shift, after the acquisition. I had to join the sort of business side.Swyx [00:23:00]: So I need to hit you on some of these things ‘cause you were there. Right? And how often do I get to talk to someone who was there? But yeah, Actions. Is that the number one source of security issues on GitHub?Kyle [00:23:11]: Oh, sh I think that the number one source of, security issues is probably like all, the literal code in everyone's like underlying repositories. I would say back further than that is, if you remember I had to show in this graph was this is, I'm, didn't say this before, this is ultimately webhooks.Swyx [00:23:30]: You yeah.Kyle [00:23:31]: Like circa whatever it was.Swyx [00:23:32]: It says Hookshot in there.Kyle [00:23:32]: I forget. Yeah. Yeah, Hookshot's in there. And so like back then, it says GitHub Services. Do you see, it says Hookshot FE for front end, and then it says GitHub Services. GitHub Services back in the old days, right? You we had a repository that was Ruby code, and you could write any Ruby code in there, and then we would execute that On your behalf As a service, and then that way if an if you were trying to integrate with something, it didn't we would run it for you.Swyx [00:23:57]: And of course no containers ‘causeKyle [00:23:58]: No, ‘cause it wasSwyx [00:23:59]: Well, no containersKyle [00:24:00]: Twenty fourteen. And so there was some isolation obviously, but it was mostly the separations on the server level. That's like an example as long as the very old version of Pages, which ran on its own containerization infrastructure, not on Actions.Swyx [00:24:15]: Which like all-time great product.Kyle [00:24:16]: Pages powers the internet at this point to some degree. Those were places where like clearly there were no like issues like to my knowledge. But it was those things where I'm looking at and going “Okay, well we can't be running arbitrary Ruby code,” like on everyone's behalf. Then containerizing all of that up intoUh into actions now where yeah the containerization, is r-really good. The pinning most folks aren't pinning it the like to a particularSwyx [00:24:48]: ImagesKyle [00:24:48]: Sha, et cetera like their workflows, and so that's a big that's a big place Of pain for folks if they're just doing similar to any dependency management, just V1 or newest or latest, I think. But, that journey from that day to “Okay, we're just going to run all this arbitrary code, and, it'll basically be okay,” to now, no, we have, really good containerization. We have a new, underlying, ag-agent, containerization, service. It's like we're using it under the hood. It's through Azure. They recently announced it. The Azure, Dev Compute, but it's, very fast, very fast compute to be able to, spin up your own cloud agents, or whatnot. We're using it under the hood for some parts of the new,Swyx [00:25:36]: Microsoft Dev Box?Kyle [00:25:37]: No. Dev Compute, yeah.Swyx [00:25:41]: Hmm. Not finding it just yet.Kyle [00:25:44]: Oh, it's, it's in there somewhere.Swyx [00:25:46]: All right. Well, we'll cut that out.Kyle [00:25:47]: Sorry. But with, Dev Compute, you can, run, really fast, spin up really, small VMs really quickly, so you're doing a tool callSwyx [00:25:58]: Same conceptKyle [00:25:58]: Just do it containerize exact-exactly. So we're using that so definitely moving that direction to protect us from every every piece of code that we're ultimately running.Swyx [00:26:07]: look, that grows into the full SDLC? Code hosting was just the start and and then it's grown beyond that. Let's talk about NPM may-maybe ‘cause I think that's also, a very major point in the industry. I do think, it was looking for a home. It was, kind of struggling as a business, right? I don't know, I don't know how you would characterize that whole acquisition and how itNPM, Package Security, and Keeping the Internet RunningKyle [00:26:33]: like when we were talking to the team, I think the big thing for the both of us was to find a way to keep NPM, which was basically powering the internet then and way more so now to some degree running. Keep it going keep continuing to scale. It was having scaling problems, if I recall, back at that time. They were doing some rewrites. ItSwyx [00:27:00]: that's cute compared to now.Kyle [00:27:01]: Well, that's the thing is like when I'm talking to folks now, there's there's so many more underlying uses of NPM than there were back when we had them join in with GitHub. But that was ultimately the goal. It was really okay, we used to have pages. We have, the world's code. Let's make sure that we can keep NPM running well for the world. And we put a bunch of time and investment into fixing some of the underlying backend, changes, some of which we talked about some of the manifest work, et cetera. And then now, really trying to bring the the security posture of NPM up to speed. But, it is a unique challenge in that every move that we make to make it more secure will break a lot of people. And security is paramount. And also, we take it very seriously. We're, the any time that we have a problem with GitHub or we make a change that makes us more secure but hurts, there's, a snow day for developers or a really bad fire that they have to go put out. And so we've, have changed the 2FA policies. We've changed the way the tokens work. When we find tokens that have been exposed or potentially, exposed, we invalidate them, andSwyx [00:28:22]: I love that feature in GitHub. Yeah, it's greatKyle [00:28:23]: That creates issues, but, the but that's the thing is we're trying to push the community, forward without necessarily, doing something that is going to break the contract that's been for 15 years or close to it or some amount of years on NPM.Slop Forks, Vendoring, and the Future of Open Source Supply ChainsSwyx [00:28:43]: I think the— So now we're talking about, open source and publishing. And I think there's something here with what people are calling slop forks, which, I think Malta from Vercel is doing. And, part of me thinks, well, the way to get past any vulnerabilities, we just, let's just get rid of the concept of NPM. And we only publish source code. And anytime you want to import it you have your coding agent look at it and then adapt whatever subset you're going to use into your vendor it. But, the AI vendor it. Is that realistic? I don't know. Is it— Will that solve all our security issues? I don't know.Kyle [00:29:24]: I don't think it'll solve I so Mitchell was just talking Mitchell Hashimoto Was just talking about this today, and I think that I-in some ways, it's all all things, old or new again? Yeah, absolutely vendoring everything. Like I do I do remember twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen.Swyx [00:29:42]: This is Yeah. Let's, we must return toKyle [00:29:43]: That's what is We were vendoring everything. We were having actual discussions around, or at least I remember we were “Should we take this full thing?” “Why is this so big? We only need this one file.” And so I do think there's something true there where having either taking only what you need or the dependencies just getting incredibly small over time, I think will help to some degree, but it's not going to solve the fundamental problem, I don't think, because the vulnerabilities in an agent looking at them, there's time and time again, there's a million different ways in which we can convince an agent that this thing is, secure or not and pull it in. Or we can do static code analysis or runtime testing to say whether the code works or not. That is, I think, the step that needs to continue to be, invested in. The question is just on, how much scope. Should it be this enormous project that I'm pulling down, or should it be this piece? Either most companies are running some amount of security checking on the on the packages that they're bringing in or vendoring. That I think won't change. That's like what advanced security does to some degree, Socket does some degree. Like everyone is doing a piece of that. How we each do that like especially when we're talking to enterprise customers, is just like very different. No there's no one wants one single way to do it. And I think that's always been GitHub's, unique position in the world. I talk a lot to maintainers, I talk a lot to folks about this. It's we're— we rarely start like a process and a practice and like push it onto the community. We usually wait for the sort of like RFC process socially or literally, everyone agreeing, and then we'll cement something in. Because otherwise we'reMaintainers, RFCs, Vouching, and the Social Layer of TrustSwyx [00:31:35]: That fits your role in the ecosystem, yeahKyle [00:31:36]: We're GitHub. Yeah, we don't want to shape the whole thing. We want it to be figured out. But like how do you balance that like sort of Role in the industry to keep everything as secure as is possible and make sure that you're you're not going to be compromised as a human, ‘cause that's usually how it all happens. And Not not create a process or lock us into a flow that you're not going to or like Mitchell's not going to or other open source projects aren't going to like. That's always been a tricky balance for us, and I think that's something that we haven't talked about enough is we're not going to be able to fix everything for everyone in a way that everyone is going to like. So tell, help us, tell us what is working. When Mitchell was talking about, the Upvote, the upSwyx [00:32:22]: I was going to bring up his thing. Yeah.Kyle [00:32:23]: I forget what it Yeah. When he's talking to us, I was chatting with him and talking to him about this and I put it on Twitter and we talked to, also over DM, was “We're going to keep working.” but I think the important thing is I do actually want to hear what isn't working for you. And as, be as specific and clear for your project as is possible. And to every piece of credit over the many years that we've known each other through the industry, he's always done that and I appreciate that ‘cause there are places that we need to fix up, and we hear from him, and we'll fix up just like we do all other kinds of maintainers. But that that process between making those types of improvements and being more secure and like creating, I forget what he calls it's not the proof process, not the claims process. Do what I'm talking about? He has that he his projects have a way for you to kind of like,Swyx [00:33:13]: VouchKyle [00:33:13]: Vouch. Thank you. Yeah. He has like the vouch system for saying, “Hey, you should accept my PRs.” That's beenSwyx [00:33:20]: I just built this into GitHub. I don't know.Kyle [00:33:22]: Well, see, but that's the thing is that you say that and like he and his community really likes this and then I'll go talk to other maintainers and other maintainers, globally, and they're “No, this doesn't work for me.” And that is the tension, but also the kind of beauty of GitHub, depending on which way you look at it is we want to help maintainers, so we create all these tools to let you have more control over how much you take in from AI and PRs. But you can also use this. What You can go use this project, and if it takes off and becomes the kind of mostly standard, then yeah, we probably wouldn't enforce it but we would add it in because that's the flow that we tend to do?Swyx [00:34:02]: I hear a lot of people don't know the history of the pull request. And like like that's how, that's something that GitHub standardized basically.Kyle [00:34:08]: Yeah. It was a very messy process Like beforehand, and now the we have the benefit of it being the process? And now we have to go and Figure out the next best process or what adaptations change, or what does a pull request look like when eighty percent of your PRs are just coming from your agents and not From other devs?Swyx [00:34:31]: Do you like the prompt request idea from Peter?Kyle [00:34:34]: like I think that for each like each idea I think has its merits. I'm not, I'm not avoiding saying anything good or bad, but I feel like I've seen a version of we have that we have entire Thomas' store. Take all the assets of what you've built and put that in. I think that's got great ideas. There's all these various permutations of the PR flow, but I think the reason why there's not a single answer is ultimately we're trying to codify trust. We're trying to say “Okay, if Sean reviews this I'm going to trust it because you're Sean or you're the senior dev or you're the whatever.” And right now, when we are working in a flow where an agent writes code and another agent reviews code and then Kyle goes and looks at it the trust is kind of diffuse. And most of the tools that we're talking about are talking more about verification flows. We have more assets to look at, so I can probably say whether this is a good PR or not. But that still doesn't solve, I think, the human problem of I'm looking at a PR and I want to know if I can trust it. And we're still, we still tend to use human signals for that? Mitchell approving it or Kyle approving it or whatever. And so I think that's, I think that's why most of these options haven't really solved it is because, it's a social problem ultimately. It's a it's a human problem to review it and agree. Or you fully trust the tool and you're imbuing that tool with full trust Which I think in some cases that absolutely exists.AI-Generated PRs, Trust, and the Waymo AnalogySwyx [00:36:08]: And so like in the same way that there will be a tipping point in society when we don't allow humans to drive anymore Because machines are measurably better than Than humans. I'm looking for that tipping point, right? Like Mythos is ridiculously expensive. Someday we'll have Mythos on a desktop. I don't know. Will, does that change the equation?Kyle [00:36:30]: I think it's more I took a Waymo here, and I was on my phone and not looking around at all. There are other, self-driving, vehicles that I would not trust while, staring at the road. And I think that trust is something that isSwyx [00:36:48]: Is this a Zoox thing? What is itKyle [00:36:50]: I think that is both. I think that is both. LikeSwyx [00:36:53]: There's Zoox in this robo taxi. That's it. It'sKyle [00:36:56]: Well, depending on what level Of self-driving. But, my point is sort of that I think part of that is I strongly believe that's, a mixture of verifiable proof. Like how many accidents, how much data, and so on, and the human aspect of how I feel when I'm in this car, what it tells me, et cetera. And so that's why I think some of the like Some of these some of our AI tools tend to, imbue me with more of that feeling of trust, even if the data says this is 100% accurate. I feel like it takes more time for us to go, “Should I trust this or not?” And that's in the soft sense of, startups with high agency, weekend projects, and open source. And then there's enterprises and regulated industries and everything else, and that is an even harder problem to go solve because even when it is fully verified, not only do you have to have trust from the humans on the team, you probably have to have trust from multinational,Swyx [00:37:55]: Oh my GodKyle [00:37:55]: Multi governments around the world and regulating agencies. And so that's where I feel like until we tip over to your point on the sort of like human EQ side of it. I feel okay this feels okay I've been proven enough. Then the ball will start to roll a lot faster, where we'll end up getting to the “Okay, we can trust this,” and feel good about it in the Most difficult of cases.Reputation, Sponsors, Stars, and Bot Activity on GitHubSwyx [00:38:18]: If human trust is the thing that matters, I feel like GitHub as the developer social network could maybe do more there. Like vouchers are one system But, we have star counts, and then we have Contributor rights, and that's it. And I feel like there should be more in that space. I don't know if there's any other design decisions there.Kyle [00:38:37]: I think that one of the places that we don't really expose right now in this sort of way is, some degree of like hard trust and support, which would like for me is like sponsors is a good example of that.Swyx [00:38:49]: Ah.Kyle [00:38:49]: It like costs you something. To prove that I believe in your project and I trust you To some degree or I want to support you at the very least.Swyx [00:38:56]: Solve payments for open source. Why not?Kyle [00:38:58]: I think that I think that like as we keep moving forward, right, there's more and more projects where I'm, adding more and more dollars into sponsors personally because I want to like support them, but I also like know of I've probably never met them in person, but, I know of enough of their work that I want to support them. I think the thing that I don't love about stars or commit counts or anything else is ultimately, even with all of the various, abuse and de-spamming and deduplication work that we do or anti-abuse work that we do, these are all, not active social signals. They're passive ones that are ultimately gamifiable. And you may trust me, but another open source maintainer may not. And on what heuristic should you be, trusting me? That I think, is kind of where some of our thinking is right now. What signal from me is most important to you? You— If you can define that potentially, honestly in an agentic workflow that's what we see some of these open source projects do, where you have GitHub actions, and then you have like an agentic workflow that's calling AI, and you're setting these rules. Like if Kyle has submitted and gotten accepted PRs across any given project and has a social handle tied to his account in GitHub, and that social account's older than a certain amount. Really complex measures that matter to you ‘cause most open source projects have that heuristic built into their heads, if not written down in the contributing guidelines. You could take that and then go apply that and then just say, “Oh, we're not going to accept this PR.” Building something that is, I think, malleable to everyone's needs, is a little bit better, rather than going “Hmm, this account's too young.” Because what happens? The attackers just go and go and create a multitude of accounts, and they wait Until it ages up. Needs to have a certain amount of stars. That's how star inflation happens. Need to have a certain amount of reposSwyx [00:40:46]: Oh my God. YeahKyle [00:40:47]: With PRs. They all just create repos and submit PRs to each other, and then they come in and do something nefarious. And so, it's hard. It's hard to find the measure. So I think we're, we're looking more at how can we provide you tools so you can kind of choose what's best for you. And of course, we'll give you some standards. But the trust vector, gets down to I don't know, some version of like human digital ID like everyone's been talking about. Like how do I prove that it's meSwyx [00:41:13]: Give me your eyeballsKyle [00:41:14]: On the internet. Give me your eyeballs. Exactly.Swyx [00:41:18]: The I got to keep moving on Topics, but obviously I can go all day on this stuff because, I've been involved in GitHub and open source My entire professional career. Stars. Very superficial. Everyone knows it. But I think time to one hundred thousand stars is the fastest I've ever seen. Like people just reached that in I don't know, months. And then like at the same time I don't trust it right? Like how many of these are real or bot or like whatever. I don't know how to ask this but like what can we do about it? LikeKyle [00:41:49]: JustSwyx [00:41:49]: Is stars broken? Is stars fine?Kyle [00:41:51]: I think that there's kind of two, there's like two pieces. Obviously we're constantly like trying to find ways in which like your users are producing spam, which would, I would include like be like only doing star gamification. When we find them, we pluck ‘em out and we,Swyx [00:42:08]: But it's like a Whac-A-MoleKyle [00:42:10]: It's a hundred percent like a Whac-A-MoleSwyx [00:42:11]: There's no wayKyle [00:42:11]: Now, powered by AI to be helpful. But I think more so what I'm seeing is, a lot of the like fastest time to X tends to be because we're now inviting so many more people into like software development on GitHub That like the zeitgeist is just swarming? And it'sSwyx [00:42:32]: It's not just developers anymoreKyle [00:42:33]: And it's not you and I. Like like however you want to say like what a developer is it's not just folks who have been coding for a very long time. It's folks that have maybe started coding or only joined in since the AI era. And nowSwyx [00:42:44]: what's the latest Octoverse number? I know eighty million was my lastRem- member that a number of developers on GitHubKyle [00:42:50]: Oh, we're over 200 million now.Swyx [00:42:53]: Okay. Well, so you see?Kyle [00:42:55]: Like over 200 million developers now.Swyx [00:42:56]: But it's not developers, right? It's, it's people with a GitHub account.What Counts as a Developer in the AI Era?Kyle [00:43:00]: So, so this is, this is the biggest debate that I would say, everyone loves to have at GitHub at this point. From my perspective, right, I think that there's, there's clearly a difference between, professional enterprise developer and then developers. But I think that I think that the idea that we should be I don't know, splitting hairs or segmenting developers in the early era of software development is, not worth our not worth the time. SoSwyx [00:43:29]: When you get into gatekeepingKyle [00:43:31]: 100%Swyx [00:43:31]: What is a developer?Kyle [00:43:31]: 100%. ‘Cause I wasn't a developer when I started writing code? I was going toSwyx [00:43:36]: Oh, no. I made— I cloned a thing, seven years before I learned to code. And then I and then I wrote about my learning to code journey, and people Just called me a fraud ‘cause I had a GitHub account. And I'm “Well, no, I just use GitHub, but I don't know-” “I didn't know what I was doing.”Kyle [00:43:49]: I I remember that. I remember those sets of posts, and like that's, that's b******t. So I fight very clearly on the line of, if you create code, if you have an idea and you create it into some way of, I'm, I'm going to run it and use the app right now, you may still use AI in that moment, but that's okay. At some point you're going to do the next thing. You're going to create a big— You're going to have to learn about this database. You're going to fix a bug, whatever. We're all on some same journey, and those people are also hearing about the great new agent skill package or a new CLI tool or a new whatever. And those projects are going up because you want to be a part of this moment, just like I wanted to be a part of the Ruby community when Ruby was popping off when I started becoming a developer, and now I can just click the star button. And so I think that yes, there's clearly some amount of like spamming and game gamification that we're working against, but I really think we're just seeing this whole new cohort of folks that are moving from technology to technology because they're not working on a 20-year-old software application. They're working on a side app that they built on the weekend for their friends or for their new idea or whatever. And that's how you see these enormous charts going up and to the right with With stars.Swyx [00:44:59]: I think something that's remarkable is the persistence or, that GitHub extends to those folks. Usually when I see platforms go into a new audience, they usually have to, have like a second platform with a different name that wraps the main platform. But somehow GitHub has been able to sort of persist and extend, and it's friendly and whatever? So it's, it's nice.Spark, Low-Code, and Always Showing the CodeKyle [00:45:19]: I that's partially why I think as we've tried to move into I don't know, more like low-code-y things. We so we started working on Spark as like a way to, build an app and run it. I think that the reality is that we anytime we try to, kind of put even a veneer on top of it without when we put a veneer on top of something, we still always show you the code. That's kind of like a tenant. We're never going to, hide the code from you ever, because whatSwyx [00:45:52]: Why would you?Kyle [00:45:52]: That's, yeah, that's the whole point? However, I think that what we learned with things like Spark is that really the value of Spark for most devs is, easy runtime. And you may have a runtime or a host that you're going to use for that or you just build something and run it but, the package of making that even more simple isn't really needed for folks that are trying to build software and not just trying to build, an app, which is, slightly different, a slightly different goal. So I want to get you in, I want to get you comfortable. I think the best thing for me as, someone that did not traditionally come into software dev way back, I want anyone to be able to breach that chasm and not be in the I don't know, I feel like we're, we're still in an era of, STEM. I've got a 12-year-old and an eight-year-old, and it's “We got to get ‘em into STEM,”? Over and over. And I like I do, I do the things that good parents do. I was “Oh, you want to do coding?” “Yes, I want to do coding.” Do coding classes. But now they're just not afraid of doing software. And that's, I think, the thing that's honestly kept me at GitHub for so long. Anyone should be able to go and build a thing, just like I can go change a light switch in my house. I'm not going to go into the breaker box ‘cause I'll probably kill myself? But, I can go change that light switch. Everyone should be able to go and say, “This fricking app doesn't do what I want. I want it to work like this.” And that I think, is what's kind of kept us all connected with GitHub through the years and some and during the easiest of times or in the hard times because of that opportunity of, we're the home for all developers, and we want everyone to be able to have that feeling that we've had of, had an idea, I created it and holy s**t here it is.Swyx [00:47:37]: Here it is. All right, I'm going to try to do more spicy questions.GitHub's Hardest Scaling Moment: Growth, Agents, and UptimeKyle [00:47:42]: Great.Swyx [00:47:42]: Is it an easy time now or a hard time?Kyle [00:47:45]: Oh at GitHub? It's a hard time. Like, it's a hard time and also, I was just with my team and I said, “This is also, the best and most exciting time that I think I can remember at GitHub.” BecauseSwyx [00:47:57]: Best of times, worst of times. It's never oneKyle [00:47:59]: ‘cause we've we were talking about Octoverse reports and, usually we do an Octoverse report once a year, and we look at the numbers, and we say, “Oh my goodness.” I was at Universe in October saying, “This was the fastest year of growth that we've ever had,” right? And now we're doing more in a month than we did in a year last year.Swyx [00:48:20]: You're talking about PRs.Kyle [00:48:21]: Commits.Swyx [00:48:21]: Commits, yeah.Kyle [00:48:22]: PRs. Kind of like you name it by roughly every measure that we're looking at, there's some amount of sort of growth that is much bigger, and that is breaking our system in new ways, not old ways. Like webhooks were always notoriously, unreliable over the years?Swyx [00:48:38]: Whose fault is that?Kyle [00:48:39]: not anymore mine, but for a period of time, I'm sure you could pull up a tweet that was “It was me. I'm sorry.” but, now, that got rewritten at a scale level that is still working and is not having problems today. Now what we're finding isn't just the isn't the-The simple stuff that folks are on the sometimes on Twitter or on the internet are “Hey, why is this like this?” Sure. There's absolutely silly problems that we shouldn't exist. But now we're talking about, unique, novel permission problems that happen only at a scale across all different objects or whatever, that now we have to go rewrite this underlying system. And so it's, there are problems that yeah, caught us off guard, which I think I said. Like the growth is astronomical, but also we're making such material progress in that I'm excited once we're once we've kind of like reimagined the underlying foundation layer, or pieces of it at least, what's going to be possible when it's not just all of us and all the new people that are being developers and all of their agents and all the tools like working together. Because that'll still happen in that in that GitHub tool, that GitHub community. But it's a it's a hard day anytime we can't give you what you're looking for. We have the same problem internally. We operate through github. Com. Of course, we have backups when things go down and whatnot for our own operations but we feel it too. If it's not working it's not working for us, and that's kind of like the promise of dogfooding for GitHub. It's always been true. We're using the same tool you're using. We're not using a super secret version. We and so we also need it to be great for us for our customers of course for open source. And now an exponential growth of agents, Doing it too.Swyx [00:50:32]: I wanted to load for audio listeners who maybe haven't seen your tweets, whatever. So one billion commits in twenty-five. Now it's two hundred and seventy-five million per week on pace for fourteen billion this year, if growth remains linear. Is that still the pace? I don't know. It's been aKyle [00:50:48]: it's, it's speedingSwyx [00:50:50]: Roughly.Kyle [00:50:50]: It's still speeding up.Swyx [00:50:51]: It's, it's April, so yeah.Kyle [00:50:51]: Exactly. This was in April.Swyx [00:50:53]: All right. So basically you have fourteen x growth, right? Year on year on year. And I think that's a scaling issue. I think, I'm going to like try to really steel man this thing. People have experienced fourteen x growth. They haven't had your downtime. And that's like— C-can we go dig into that? Why? Like what's the— what broke? What are we doing to fix it? Like just anything for the community to reassure them.Why GitHub Reliability Is Breaking in New WaysKyle [00:51:18]: so there's a Like I was saying, there's a couple different places that we've seen the growth issues. Some of the growth issues, which is why we're t— I was talking about pushing hard on more CPUs is in actions in particular. More tools, more agents, more PRs mean more builds, more builds mean more CPUs. And so we are expanding through not just our data center, but obviously we were talking about moving to Azure and moving to, adding an additional cloud compute because we simply need more CPUs. Not as much GPUs. We definitely need GPUs too, but now CPUs are becoming a factor.Swyx [00:51:53]: It's very CPU heavy.Kyle [00:51:54]: Underneath the hood when it comes to some of the underlying services, we've been breaking up over the years our database infrastructure, so that way we have, more cognitive separation between our the various services. The place that we continue to have pain is in, permissioning. And so right now m-many of our permissioning layers sit into a database that we like internally call MySQL One, and old Hubbers will know what I'm talking about. And so we've been pulling things out of MySQL One for many years, because like and we use we use Vitess and we use other technologies to shard and we do it as one bigSwyx [00:52:31]: Famous thing, PlanetScale was born from this andKyle [00:52:32]: A hundred percent. Sam Old Hubber and friend. And so finding these opportunities to like break this out and then do that globally. The other thing that I think is interesting and both a unique opportunity and tricky is we also run everything I just talked about in a black box container with GitHub Enterprise Server for people that work on-prem. So we take everything I just said, and we also do it on-prem, and we also do all of that and we do it in a data residence setup for customers that need to have their data in a single location. Each of these has the unique characteristic around how we're sort of storing that data in MySQL or in a permissioning setup. That's where some of these outages have oc-occurred, where you're seeing it more like across the board rather than just like the one pieceSwyx [00:53:17]: Filling the databaseKyle [00:53:17]: Isn't quite working. Exactly. And so part of it is that. I think there's been some other places where agents are much more or more projects appear to be moving towards monorepo versus we were going the other direction for many years in the industry. Repos were smaller, but there were more of them, and now we're seeing the opposite. Repos are bigger, and there's, not fewer of them per se ‘cause there's new growth, but, we're just seeing many more big repos. Big repos, big monorepos have always had, a unique performance problem. Because each one, is slightly different if, particularly if the underlying blobs are incredibly big Inside the repos. And so we've done a ton of work that you pro— like most people haven't probably experienced, unless you're in this case of the monorepo. But that Git, infrastructure layer improvement does help the overall, system because, many of the improvements that make monorepos work better make all repo infrastructure work better. And so, I could kind of keep going down the line where it's another thing where we're moving out of, We're changing how we do j I'll just say job queuing for lack of a better, explanation changing the underlying technologies there.Swyx [00:54:32]: I spent two years being a job queuing guy, so.Kyle [00:54:34]: And so it's kind of a little bit of a little bit of piece by piece, and it's mostly because as we were— as it was built, we built everything in a way that assumed, I guess in some ways that the size of the pipe of work was going to remain the same. There's just going to be more people coming through each of those pipes. But instead now in places whereA git push was, generally a certain size for example, is now, no longer true.Swyx [00:55:03]: Oh, yeah.Kyle [00:55:03]: OrSwyx [00:55:05]: I push a thousandKyle [00:55:06]: On the average. 100%Swyx [00:55:06]: A thousand line commits like dailyKyle [00:55:07]: Same thing with PRs. Like PRs same thing. And like we've talked about optimizing that and making changes where, and there were technology choices that did not work there? And it got slow, and it didn't It was not fast. It did not do what the users wanted. And so we've been reeling that all out and going “Okay, that's just not right. Let's stop putting good money after bad and do it the do it the right way or the right way now.” So there's It's a it's a lot of things, not quite when I've experienced scale at GitHub historically, it's almost always two options that we've used. We go vertical scaling, particularly with databases, right? And we go horizontal scaling. Oh, we just have more people using this service. Great. We're going to add more servers, and we rack them in our data center, or we use it in a cloud. And now we're sort of in a like diagonal, where like vertical doesn't really work anymore. Horizontal isn't work either because we're all We all have some CPU or GPU constraints in the world now, and now we have to go in and like crack open services that have been running for 10 or 15 years and go, “Okay, the rules of this service have legitimately changed, and now we have to rewrite them.” None of this is an excuse. This is like we're We have to do the work. We have to make it better.Swyx [00:56:22]: actually as an infra guy, I'm “This is like one of the most fascinating scaling challenges I've ever seen.”Kyle [00:56:26]: That's that's, that's the thing that's the thing that it's hard for Like when we weren't talking about it publicly, and I was like I came out, and I was “Hey, I just want to explain what's going on.” Part of it comes from a very old GitHub ethos, which is it's our it's our uptime. It's down. W What I know you're a developer, so you're, you're inclined to want to understand more what's going on. But at the same time us going “Hey, this service didn't, perform the way we expected, and now we have to go change it,” we weren't We're not trying to hide anything from you i

Marketing leaders are being asked to drive more growth with less budget, fewer resources, tighter timelines, and more pressure from every direction while AI is being treated like the shortcut to replace entire marketing teams. But AI will not fix bad strategy, weak alignment, poor customer understanding, or broken marketing fundamentals. In part two of this master class conversation with Matt Hummel, CMO of Pipeline360, the focus moves into what it really takes to become the kind of CMO AI cannot replace. Not by chasing every new tool, adding more MarTech, or hiding behind automation, but by understanding the business as a whole, building trust across departments, speaking the language of revenue, and creating alignment between marketing, sales, product, leadership, and the customer. To lead marketing in a volatile market where expectations keep rising and the old playbook is no longer enough, you need to know how to: • Make sales an ally instead of your bitter rival • Build shared pipeline ownership across marketing and sales  • Communicate risk without becoming defensive • Connect marketing decisions to the larger goals of the business • Set clearer expectations with your team and leadership • Understand resource constraints without using them as excuses • Stay close to customers while leading strategy • Create momentum without pretending there is an easy button The best marketing leaders are not just managing campaigns, tools, reports, and dashboards. They are translating complexity into strategy the business can trust. The reminder is clear: AI will not fix bad strategy. More MarTech will not fix bad marketing. The CMO AI cannot replace is the one who understands the business, earns trust, aligns with sales, leads the team, knows the customer, and gets back to real marketing when everyone else is hiding behind tools. (P.S. If you haven't, listen to Ep. 149 for part one of this masterclass episode) Beyond The Episode Gems: Connect With Matt Hummel on LinkedIn Listen To Troy On Matt's Podcast, Pipeline Brew: The Evolving Role of CMOs & Community Building Visit Pipeline360 website to learn more about how they solve B2B marketers' biggest headaches Buy Troy's Book, Strategize Up: The Blueprint To Scale Your Business StrategizeUpBook.com Discover All Podcasts On The HubSpot Podcast Network Get Free HubSpot Marketing Tools To Help You Grow Your Business Grow Your Business Faster Using HubSpot's CRM Platform Support The Podcast & Connect With Troy:  Rate & Review iDigress: iDigress.fm/Reviews Follow Troy's Socials @FindTroy: LinkedIn, Instagram, Threads, TikTok Subscribe to Troy's YouTube Channel For Strategy Videos & See Masterclass Episodes Need Growth Strategy, A Keynote Speaker, Or Want To Sponsor The Podcast? Go To FindTroy.com  

Great software companies often come from understanding pain points at a very deep level.On Grit, Aman Narang shares how Toast built trust with 171,000+ restaurant operators by helping restaurants manage everything from payments and online orders to staff scheduling and daily operations.He also reflects on lessons around product-market fit and scaling a company before it's fully ready.Guest: Aman Narang, co-founder and CEO, ToastConnect with Aman NarangLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aman-narang-155628/Connect with ToastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/toast-inc/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/toasttab/X: https://x.com/ToastTab?lang=enConnect with Joubin:X: https://x.com/JoubinmirLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joubin-mirzadegan-66186854/Email: grit@kleinerperkins.comFollow on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/kpgritFollow on X:https://x.com/KPGrit​Learn more about Kleiner Perkins:https://www.kleinerperkins.com/

Sales kickoffs can become expensive calendar events if leaders are not clear on what the gathering is meant to accomplish. In this Revenue Builders replay, John McMahon shares his perspective on how CEOs and CROs should think about SKOs, from motivating the sales force and aligning teams around company goals to delivering training that actually prepares reps to execute. He also explains why peer-to-peer knowledge transfer is often the hidden value of bringing the sales organization together, why product presentations should only happen when the value proposition is clear, and how leaders can motivate reps by speaking directly to their daily challenges, career aspirations, and earning potential. John McMahon is a five-time CRO who has led revenue organizations at PTC, GeoTel, Ariba, BladeLogic, and BMC. He is the author of The Qualified Sales Leader and co-host of Revenue Builders, where he brings operator-level perspective on building and scaling enterprise sales teams.  Connect with John: LinkedIn Book Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results. This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale. Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

In this episode of the Site Realities series, Tammy D'Lugin-Monroe continues her conversation with Przemyslaw Wziatek, Country Head for Poland and Ukraine within Clinical Operations at Syneos Health, exploring how sites navigate the complexity of working within large CRO organizations. Together, they discuss the importance of clear communication pathways, operational ownership and timely escalation processes in building strong site partnerships. From reducing communication noise to improving site launch meetings and helping sites quickly connect with the right support teams, the conversation highlights practical ways CROs can create a more seamless and supportive site experience.Listen in as they share perspectives on how thoughtful communication, clarity and collaboration can strengthen trust and improve study execution at scale.The views expressed in this podcast belong solely to the speakers and do not represent those of their organization.  If you want access to more future-focused, actionable insights to help biopharmaceutical companies better execute and succeed in a constantly evolving environment, visit the Syneos Health Insights Hub. The perspectives you'll find there are driven by dynamic research and crafted by subject matter experts focused on real answers to help guide decision-making and investment. You can find it all at https://www.syneoshealth.com/insights-hub. Like what you're hearing? Be sure to rate and review us!  We want to hear from you! If there's a topic you'd like us to cover on a future episode, contact us at podcast@syneoshealth.com. 

Disclaimer: Today's episode is sponsored by Gelt. Content is for educational purposes only. Not advice. Results discussed have not been vetted. Claims made by the guest have not been verified. The views expressed by the guest do not reflect those of the host or this show.—

Warren Zenna is the Founder of The CRO Collective, a B2B consultancy focused on helping CEOs and CROs design stronger revenue strategies, operating models, and CRO readiness. A seasoned revenue leader and advisor, he brings more than 25 years of experience across B2B sales, marketing, digital media, and emerging technology. Warren is also Founder and CEO of Zenna Consulting Group, where he advises companies on organic growth, marketing, and go-to-market strategy. He is the author of What Chief Revenue Officers Actually Do and hosts The CRO Spotlight Podcast, where he explores the evolving responsibilities, challenges, and strategic importance of the modern CRO. In this episode… Hiring a chief revenue officer can transform a growing company — but only if the business is ready. Many organizations expect a CRO to fix revenue problems, yet success depends just as much on structure, authority, and timing. So, how can companies set CROs up to succeed rather than fail? For Warren Zenna, a longtime revenue leader and advisor to B2B executives, the answer starts with CRO readiness: companies must understand when they need a CRO, what authority the role requires, and how the revenue engine must be structured before making the hire. He highlights that many CROs fail not because they lack talent, but because they inherit broken systems without the autonomy, resources, or runway to fix them. The result is a costly mismatch between expectations and execution. Warren explains that companies often hire CROs too early for vanity or too late after complexity has already hardened into dysfunction. A successful CRO needs the ability to align sales, marketing, customer success, revenue operations, and leadership expectations around one cohesive growth strategy. In this episode of the Inspired Insider Podcast, Dr. Jeremy Weisz sits down with Warren Zenna, Founder of The CRO Collective, to discuss CRO readiness and the future of revenue leadership. Warren explains why CROs fail, when companies should hire one, and how AI is reshaping revenue organizations. Warren also shares advice for candidates evaluating CRO opportunities.

Jason Zigelbaum is the solo founder behind Zigpoll—the zero-party data platform trusted by Sony, HP, Kraft Heinz, and Hallmark.  Zigpoll collected over 100 million survey responses and counting. Third-party cookies are going away. Ad platforms are losing signal. Brands that don't collect first-party data are flying blind. Zigpoll fixes that.  Zigpoll makes it dead simple to launch contextual surveys that ask the right questions, at the right time, in the right channel so brands can stop guessing and start knowing.  How brands use Zigpoll:  - Discover how customers found you with post-purchase surveys - Improve products with real customer feedback  - Boost sales with on-site CRO surveys - Recover lost sales with abandoned cart & exit intent surveys  - Segment audiences by demographics and psychographics for higher-ROI campaigns  What makes it easy:  - No code. Installs on Shopify in seconds  - Surveys in any language with built-in translation  - Conditional logic and follow-up questions that dig deeper  - Triggers for post-purchase, abandoned cart, fulfillment, exit intent  - Deliver via SMS, email, or on-site  - Pipes data directly into Klaviyo, ActiveCampaign, Gorgias & more In This Conversation We Discuss:  [00:00] Intro [02:31] Starting with what you already know  [04:35] Uncovering your business blind spots  [07:38] Lowering mental friction for your users  [09:06] Eliminating the guesswork from strategies  [11:07] Callouts [11:07] Catching errors with your users' feedback  [13:35] Segmenting buyers to understand habits  [17:24] Using AI as a powerful force multiplier [22:21] Testing concepts without real users  Resources: Subscribe to Honest Ecommerce on Youtube Survey & feedback platform.zigpoll.com/ Follow Jason Zigelbaum LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/jason-zigelbaum If you're enjoying the show, we'd love it if you left Honest Ecommerce a review on Apple Podcasts. It makes a huge impact on the success of the podcast, and we love reading every one of your reviews!

Scaling is not just about selling more. It is about knowing when the business is truly ready to grow. In this episode of Sharkpreneur, Seth Greene interviews Mark Roberge, Co-Founder & Managing Director at Stage 2 Capital, who shares lessons from helping HubSpot scale from its earliest days to IPO, including why founders often mistake early sales traction for true readiness to scale. He also discusses the role of product value, go-to-market strategy, venture capital, AI, fast-follower opportunities, and his decision to donate the book's proceeds to support mental health. Key Takeaways:→ Product value should take precedence over aggressive revenue growth.→ The startup ecosystem needs greater discipline in revenue growth. → AI is creating major opportunities and societal challenges.→ Fast followers often outperform first movers in the long run.→ Founders need frameworks for scaling, not just ambition. Mark Roberge is a Co-Founder at Stage 2 Capital, the first venture fund supported by over 1,000 top sales and marketing executives. Stage 2 has invested in more than 100 startups, helping founders with proven revenue growth strategies and experienced go-to-market leaders to accelerate their growth. He has also been a member of the teaching faculty at Harvard Business School for over a decade, designing and leading courses on sales, marketing, and entrepreneurship, mentoring thousands of student entrepreneurs, and engaging deeply with the challenges of early-stage growth. Before these roles, Mark was the fourth employee and founding CRO at HubSpot, where he built and scaled the go-to-market organization from zero revenue to a successful IPO, pioneering a data-driven, buyer-centric sales model that has since influenced go-to-market teams worldwide. Connect With Mark:Website: https://www.stage2.capital/X: https://x.com/markrobergeLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markroberge/

Stop losing revenue after the click! Let's find the leak before your next ad. Get your free CRO audit at: https://www.tiereleven.com/cro/service Are you optimizing your site based on what looks good or what actually converts? Most brands are bleeding revenue because their CRO strategy starts with design opinions instead of hard data. If you're copying competitor layouts or A/B testing button colors without first identifying your true 'metric on fire,' you're solving the wrong problem.In this episode, Tier 11's CRO lead, Ned MacPherson, is back for part two of our three-part series. Ned walks through a live data presentation covering engagement rates, funnel drop-off analysis, mobile vs. desktop conversion gaps, AOV benchmarks, and demographic distribution modeling. We also review a real-world case where a brand's mobile add-to-cart rate was nearly half that of desktop, despite a good landing page design. If your CRO audit isn't moving the needle, this episode will show you what you're missing and how to find the one metric that, if fixed, creates a disproportionate impact on your entire funnel. What you'll learn:- Why copying competitor designs is a dangerous CRO mistake - How to identify the single 'metric on fire' that's killing your conversion rate- Key engagement rate benchmarks e-commerce brands should measure against- Why a low mobile add-to-cart rate is often a content problem, not a design problem- How to use mobile vs. desktop funnel data to uncover hidden conversion gaps- The cart-to-checkout friction fix that boosts conversion rates on all devices - The urgency engineering tactic that converts abandoned checkout carts- Why AOV should always be equal on mobile and desktop- How demographic distribution modeling helps in audience segmentation- The step-by-step CRO loop and growth modelMentioned in the Episode:Previous Episode with Ned MacPherson: https://perpetualtraffic.com/podcast/episode-796-stop-redesigning-start-diagnosing-the-cro-method-that-actually-works/ Perpetual Traffic YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@perpetual_traffic?sub_confirmation=1 Listen to This Episode on Your Favorite Podcast Channel:Follow and listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/perpetual-traffic/id1022441491 Follow and listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/59lhtIWHw1XXsRmT5HBAuK Subscribe and watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@perpetual_traffic?sub_confirmation=1We Appreciate Your Support!Visit our website: https://perpetualtraffic.com/ Connect with Ned MacPherson:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nedmacpherson/ Connect with Ralph Burns: LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/ Hire Tier11 - https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now Mentioned in this episode:Apply for an ad spot on Perpetual Traffic for Q1 or Q2. Visit www.perpetualtraffic.com today to secure your spot!Apply for an ad spot on Perpetual Traffic for Q1 or Q2. Visit www.perpetualtraffic.com today to secure your spot!Apply for an ad spot on Perpetual Traffic for Q1 or Q2. Visit www.perpetualtraffic.com today to secure your spot!