Podcast appearances and mentions of jay shafer

Jay's mission is simple: to make a significant impact on people from all walks of life and to change lives for the better.  He is living this mission out in real time as his team is currently within reach of their goal to provide one million meals to families in need. And they are reaching that goal while also providing healthy nutrition to people in need of making a health change.Jay Shafer is the CEO and Founder of Zurvita, which produces a range of health and wellness products. You can follow their progress towards building health on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.You can visit all of our sponsors here.You can support my efforts to bring you episodes about health and wellness topics via Patreon.Follow me via All In Health and Wellness on Facebook or Instagram.Find my books on Amazon: No More Sugar Coating: Finding Your Happiness in a Crowded World and Confidence Through Health: Life the Healthy Lifestyle God DesignedMusic credit: Ryan The Son, hear more from Ryan The Son on Instagram, YouTube or SpotifyProduction credit: Social Media Cowboys

A fun episode about an entrepreneur's journey with TINY HOUSES! Everything you want to know about quitting the 9-5 and the niche community of tiny house builders. Even better, place yourself in the story and get inspired to begin your next project, no matter what it is!  If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co . And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:The beginning of building a Tiny HomeDecluttering and creating space The switch from hobby to business Applying what you already know to create the next thing or a new bizThe bond shared through aspirationsThe market and audience of tiny homesThe Tiny House DecisionsEpisode References/Links:Tiny House Decisions courseFollow Ethan on IGFollow Ethan on TwitterGuest Bio:Ethan Waldman is a tiny house author, speaker, and teacher. He built his own tiny house on wheels in 2012, and has been passionately helping future tiny house dwellers on their own journeys ever since. Ethan's guide, Tiny House Decisions, has helped thousands of readers answer the big questions about tiny houses and plan each system in their future home. He's also the creator and host of the Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast, a show that brings you conversations with tiny house luminaries, builders, and DIYers.  If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.Be It Till You See It Podcast SurveyResourcesWatch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!Lesley Logan websiteBe It Till You See It PodcastOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley LoganOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTubeProfitable PilatesSocial MediaInstagramFacebookLinkedInEpisode Transcript:Lesley Logan  Hey Be It babe, what's up? Okay, so today's guest is very specific topic. Okay. It's a very specific topic, and I'll let him introduce what his specific topic is. But the reason I wanted to have him on whether or not you see yourself in this specific topic, doesn't matter. I want you to practice seeing your journey, seeing your dreams, seeing your visions, seeing your goal in someone else because that is how we learn. It is. So, sometimes we want like a roadmap, a blueprint of some kind, where we go, "Okay, step A, step B, step C." But some of the best ideas I've had have been from other industries, from other people's goals, other people's questions, from other people's ideas that had nothing to do with what I'm doing. Because often, we get a little stuck in where we are. And we're like, "Well, that everyone doesn't like this. That's how I have to do it." But some of the best inspirations you're gonna get are from seeing yourself in other people's situations. So I challenge you with this episode. If you are like, "Oh, Lesley, thanks so much. This isn't for me." Keep listening. Also, I freaking love his BE IT action item at the end. It is definitely towards what he is doing. But I think we all can do it. So like, it'll be really easy for you to see yourself in that. But again, challenge yourself. And if you're like, "Oh my God, yes, this is what I've been doing." Because I'm thinking of three listeners right now I know who are doing this. Great. Enjoy. He's a wealth of knowledge. And I'm so so excited. But I'm truly inspired by him. His perseverance, his authenticity and, and the journey that he's on. I think we can all learn and glean something from this, I can't hear wait to hear what you did with this interview, with this information. And so let us know at the @be_it_pod, tag us there, make sure to leave us a review. And if you really like our guest, he has a podcast too. So you can go ahead and listen to his and do a favor if you'd like his, leave a review. I know I say this a lot and then in every podcast, here's the deal. Reviews matter. I get to read every single one of them and they're so much fun. The team reads them all. And we share them around the whole office and it's well the virtual office and it is a lot of fun. So thank you for listening. Thank you for being you. And here is our guest, Ethan Waldman.Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Hey, Be It listener, I have the one and only Ethan Waldman here. I'm super excited to have him because I saw I saw what he was doing. And I thought, that's what a lot of people, think about doing, talk about doing and then maybe have a million reasons why they wouldn't do it. So I wanted to bring him on to maybe inspire you. And if you don't see yourself in his particular situation, you can use all these things for anything else you're putting obstacles in the way. So Ethan, thanks for being here on the Be It pod. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you're up to?Ethan Waldman  Sure. Hey, everyone. Thanks for having me, Lesley. I'm Ethan Waldman. And the thing that I am passionate about is tiny houses.Lesley Logan  Yeah. Okay. So because I've, before I got rid of a TV, many moons ago, they like had tiny houses on TV shows like people talk about tiny houses, like, did you grow up in a tiny house? Like, was it easy... I have so many questions. How did you get in the tiny house?Ethan Waldman  Yeah, I did not grow up in a tiny house. And it was not easy. I think it's kind of funny. Like, if I knew now how hard it was to build my own house, I probably never would have done it. So I'm almost glad that I didn't know. About 10 years ago now or actually more than 10 years ago, I was a couple of years into a corporate career, kind of the thing that I studied in college. I was doing the like living in a cubicle from nine to five kind of thing. And I just, I wasn't really happy. I just, I love the outdoors, I love, you know, skiing and being on the lake and just doing these things that require like the precise alignment of weather conditions. And it always really bothered me, when I had to be at my desk, doing work that really wasn't that time sensitive, when what I really wanted to be doing was like skiing that morning. And so I started to really become interested in entrepreneurship, interested in having my own business. And I had already started kind of a side hustle a side business. But I was still renting, you know, an expensive house with a friend. I hadn't really changed anything about my lifestyle and hadn't really taken many steps. Really big steps towards like leaving my job and like really changing things up. And so around, you know, sometime in 2011, I found a blog called Rowdy Kittens, written by Tammy Strobel and her and her husband, I know she has she likes cats. She has a bunch of kittens. ... her husband Logan had, they didn't build it themselves. But they had hired a company headed by this person named Dee Williams to build them a tiny house. And so I kind of just went down the rabbit hole reading about Tammy and Logan's Tiny House learning about Dee Williams who is kind of like the like the godmother of The Tiny House Movement. Learning about Tumbleweed Tiny homes, it's kind of this guy Jay Shafer, just like all these kind of OG tiny house people and learning about like, hey, like, these houses are small, they are, you know, DIYable, anybody can learn to build their own house, like there are workshops you can take, you can buy the plans. And I, I just realized that, you know, building a tiny house and living in one would drastically lower my, my monthly expenses. Like if I could own my own home outright with what I had in savings, and I had enough in savings at the time to take it on. That I'd be able to leave my corporate job, and did not have to come up with a business idea that would pay me what I was making in the corporate career because that's difficult to go from, you know, corporate career to ...Lesley Logan  Oh working for yourself and making (Ethan: working for yourself) the income (Ethan: Yeah) at the same time. Yeah. No, (Ethan: Yeah) there's, there's like, you can do a little as someone who's done it, you can do a little bit of like, bridging (Ethan: Yeah) a little bit. And then you're working seven days a week, most of the time all the time. (Ethan: Yeah) You're not doing your snow stuff that you want to do. (Ethan: Yeah. Exactly.) And then you still have to eventually make the leap and there's gonna be a gap.Ethan Waldman  Yeah, yeah. So the tiny house like was my gap, was my gap thing.Lesley Logan  I love it. So, (Ethan: Yeah) so you built it yourself, by yourself? Did you have help?Ethan Waldman  Yeah, so I started off. So my budget was such that like, I had to do it all myself. And like, when I was three months into the project, and like recognized that I was basically nowhere, I realized that I needed help. Because like the house really, it's it's I had at that point I had made like pretty significant investment in a trailer that's like several $1,000 and materials and I came to the realization that until it's an actual house, you invest all this time and money and it's not really worth anything, so you need to get it done. And so I actually put out an ad on Craigslist and found kind of a local jack of all trades type person who, who really worked with me the whole build, and, you know, I would hire him his name was Jason, like, one or two days a week, he would kind of get me started on the next step, whatever next thing it was kind of show me how to do it, and then kind of turned me loose.Lesley Logan  That's cool. I actually, thanks for sharing that part. Because I think no matter what a project is, like, do like we, I mean, the DIY is great, because you can have, you can stay in your budget, you can do things that (Ethan: Yeah) like, but then eventually, there's going to be things you don't know how to do. And it's either going to cost you more time, which is more money eventually on like silly things, saying that you can't move in because now you're paying rent at the other place, or it's gonna cost you money to sort in the timespan to hire someone. So that's really cool that you're able to find someone who can kind of like, do it with you.Ethan Waldman  Yeah, it was really helpful. And I, you know, I credit Jason with with helping make it happen. I don't know what would have happened if I didn't hire him. I mean, it still took 14 months.Lesley Logan  Okay, that was my next (Ethan: Yeah) 14 months. That's a that is a lot longer than you probably expected.Ethan Waldman  Oh, yeah. Like my housemate at the time was a woodworker who had done construction. And when I was talking to him about it, he was like, "Oh, yeah, you could build that in like three months, and I'll help." And not only didn't he help, it takes a lot longer than three months. You could do it in three months if you really, if you knew how to build already, and you work full time on it, like, (Lesley: Yeah, like that was your nine to five.) Yeah, I mean, I tell people in my training materials that it's it's like 1000 to 1400 hours of work to build a tiny house. So (Lesley: Yeah) you just have to divide, you have to divide that 1000 hours out over a period of time. (Lesley: Yeah.) Often when a couple builds a tiny house together on the weekends, it takes them about a year.Lesley Logan  Yeah. Okay. So now we're even living in your tiny house about 10 years now?Ethan Waldman  Well, we're 10 years down the road. I don't live in my tiny house anymore, actually. Now it is the cool thing about tiny houses, I knew that I might never live in it forever. Or I knew I wasn't gonna live in it forever. But I also knew that I like never wanted to get rid of it. Because it's, it's such an asset to me. You know, I built my whole business around educating people on how to plan and build tiny houses. But now also, I've I've found my way into this really sweet situation, I found a landlord who is open to letting us do Airbnb. So basically, I've turned the tiny house into, you know, another piece of my business in terms of income.Lesley Logan  That's so cool. So now people (Ethan: Yeah ...) staying in your tiny house.Ethan Waldman  Yeah. And it's fun, too, because I get so many messages from guests who are like, "Thank you, this helped us figure out like what we wanted in terms of our tiny house." And that's, uh, you know, I tell people, like, if you're thinking about living in a tiny house, and you've never been in one, first see if there's a tiny house festival happening in your area, because that's a great way to see a ton of tiny houses at once. But even better book, one on Airbnb for a night or a weekend and see what it feels like to live there.Lesley Logan  Yeah, that's, that's actually a genius tip. I think everyone should try everything on for size, whether it's a tiny house or a job or a school (Ethan: Yeah) or a relationship. You know, because some things like look really good on the outside and then like, then it's reality. So (Ethan: Yeah) so let's talk about like moving from the house, you were in into the tiny house. And we you alluded earlier, like it wasn't easy. So like, what was the hard, what were the harder parts of like moving into the tiny house?Ethan Waldman  Yeah, I mean, I would say that, that it was the building of the tiny house, that wasn't easy. It took so long that like, I had a lot of time to prepare, (Lesley: Okay) in terms of like, getting rid of clutter and possessions that I that I knew I didn't want. In fact, that was it was one of the very earliest things I could do. Even before I started building, when I was still in the planning phases and saving money. It's like, you can start decluttering and kind of getting rid of the stuff that you don't want right away. And that's makes it easier to move into the tiny house.Lesley Logan  I love that because it's like, it's like you got to live tiny before you were in your tiny house.Ethan Waldman  Definitely. And I think that there is an element of like living in a tiny house that that does make it easier to declutter and downsize. Like when you have the space, you will spread out into it. And so if you try to cram your your, you know, one bedroom apartment life into a tiny house, all of a sudden there's going to be stuff everywhere and it's going to be obvious to you what needs to go but as much as you can do beforehand, the better and and also just for me, it just gave me something to stay motivated about. Like it gave me some tangible things that I could do while I was waiting to start that were actually going to contribute to, to the project.Lesley Logan  Yeah, because you know, like, it doesn't matter what the goal is, right? There's always, it always takes a little longer than we want, or we think, we plan but being able to take little actions every day. So it feels like you're getting closer to the goal is (Ethan: Yeah) rewarding. And, and so I think I love that you pointed that out, I will say it because we went from a 500 square foot apartment with ... (Ethan: That's almost, that's a tiny house.) that's a tiny house. So we have this amazing tiny house. We live (Ethan: Yeah) in this great neighborhood in LA and it's a super super old studio apartment, which is not technically a studio because there wasn't ins... there was a door on the inside. There was a kitchen, full kitchen and then like a dressing room. And then the bathroom was behind the kitchen and had a door too, so there was like, technically you could call it a one bedroom, but the bedroom was in the kitchen as well. So that's why ... (Ethan: Okay) but it also had a back patio and a backyard with a tree. No apartments in LA had this so we could like sort of have an office outside because it's LA. But (Ethan: Yeah) we it was amazing when we moved out to a five bedroom house. Everything we owned, like I like, "Where are these boxes coming from? How did we like where were this packed away?" It was so crazy what we're able to hide even in 500 square feet with (Ethan: Yeah) two dogs. (Ethan: Yeah) We had like three, two guitar, three guitars underneath the bed. Like I didn't even know that we had a trombone under the bed as well. All of that under the bed. So it's kind of shocking. And now that we live in this house, we have spread out. You are correct. You just take up the space you're given.Ethan Waldman  Yeah. I mean, just like an empty room, you're like, "Okay, well, how about like a credenza or an end table or a dresser or something?" And then you're like, "Oh well, I have all these extra drawers? I gotta put stuff in them."Lesley Logan  Yeah. So okay, so you you, you have the corporate job. You've gotten to the tiny house, when (Ethan: Yeah) did you make your entrepreneurship about tiny homes? Was that it from the beginning? Or like, what were you, were you dabbling into some other things? How did that transition happen?Ethan Waldman  Yeah, great question. So, like, many I read The Four Hour Workweek, like back in 2003 or four and was like, you know, (Lesley: Yeah) I was always in the back of my head. Like, I want passive income. I want to like have a business online that makes money while I sleep, which like, isn't real. You have to do work.Lesley Logan  Well, there's a lot of work in the front end, like a lot (Ethan: Yeah, it's true.) more than four hours. (Ethan: Yeah) And then, and then if you like, figure out all the things someone is working more than four hours a week, it just (Ethan: It's true.) might not be you.Ethan Waldman  It's true. No, and I will admit, like, I do wake up and people have bought my eBooks and courses. And so yes, I made money while I slept. (Lesley: Yeah) So that was always in the back of my my head. And I actually started kind of online business, I guess you would call it now like a creator business, it was called Cloud Coach. And the motto was "Live and work in harmony with technology." I've always loved technology. I like teaching people and particularly helping, like small businesses kind of figure out their technology. And so I had this idea, I'll, I'll become a coach. I'll help people learn to use the technology around them. (Lesley: Yeah) And it was, it was going okay, I like I ran the blog and website for a few years, I had a couple, I had a several kinds of productized services. I was doing some web design for people, I even created like a, it was like an online course on how to like, get to inbox zero. And ...Lesley Logan  Oh, I can't wait for Brad to hear this because he is someone who has like always like 1000 emails ...Ethan Waldman  Just archive them all. Start to declare bankruptcy. (Lesley laughs) My advice, my advice now. But yeah, so it just like trucking along. But it wasn't like really making very much money. I was finding that the people who could afford to pay me wanted me to do it for them. And the people who wanted to be coached and learn themselves, which is what I was mostly interested in doing couldn't couldn't pay. (Ethan: Right) So like, I definitely had like lots of free yoga classes and massages and like, music lessons and like, you know I was like doing a lot of like barter, but you know, that doesn't pay the bills. (Lesley: No, you still gonna pay the bills.) Yeah. And so during the build, I was actually able to when I quit my corporate job, which was like somewhat specialized, I was able to negotiate essentially, like a consultancy. And so I like continued to do pieces of my job on a product or project by project basis. (Lesley: Oh great) And that yeah, that really helped to kind of pay the bills while you know, especially once I quit and also as I continued to build the tiny house and it went over budget ... we can talk about. Yeah, as most things do. So it was around, it was around 2013 I knew that the tiny house had a very viable audience. I had started a Facebook page when I was building the house. And by the end of the build, it had something like four or 5000 likes. (Lesley: That's insane.) And like, yeah, this was back in 2012 before the algorithm, when just like posting decent content, like, got you a lot of exposure. (Lesley: Yeah) You didn't have to pay Facebook for that. (Lesley: Yeah) And so I was getting tons of questions like, you know, "Why did you choose that heater versus this heater? Like, what kind of insulation is that? Like, why did you use that?" And so I just decided to apply what I had already learned from doing Cloud Coach about email marketing, about, you know, building a WordPress website, how to put a product online, how to use PayPal, all these things. And, you know, I put up a landing page for, like, a concept of a book that was called and still is called Tiny House Decisions, and got to work writing it. And I launched that in 2014.Lesley Logan  That's so cool. (Ethan: Yeah) That's so cool. So then started with the book, you had the page or you write the book and then like (Ethan: Yeah) and then people started buying the book, or people started asking you for coaching advice, or what was the, how did you end up getting like a business out of it?Ethan Waldman  Well, basically, while I was writing the book, I was starting to do email marketing, starting to publish blog posts, and building up that interest list of people who were like, interested in potentially buying it. (Lesley: Yeah) And so then, I don't think I really made any money in the tiny house world until I self published the guide in, I think it was September of 2014. (Lesley: cool) And like it was, it was the right time. This it was before there were now you can go on to YouTube. And there are hundreds of people who have documented their their full build from start to finish. I would argue that that my book still gives you something that they don't, which is really helping you think through what goes into the house, like planning all the systems and putting it all together before you ever start to build, essentially.Lesley Logan  Oh, you are 100... So this is, so this is my thing. I'm on YouTube. I love it. It's great. We get paid on it. And you can go there and learn a bunch. But you aren't learning how to put things together. You're like watching it's, it's not voyeuristic per se because there can be a conversation, they'd be teaching something. But (Ethan: Yeah) you, there's only so much that free can do, you can have (Ethan: Yeah) all the information but putting the puzzle pieces together are a little difficult. And we have the van right. So before we hit record, my husband talking Ethan about our van. And we had all these like ideas we bought, like we got these we got we did buy some floor plans that were based off of our van. But as we're driving in it without having made any decisions, and we're seeing how the dogs are acting, what they need, what we need, when we're working in it. We're like, "You know, we don't actually want a kitchen on the inside, because I don't want to smell the food while I'm driving around." I'm not actually gonna live in my van, I'm just using it to like, road trip. So you I think you're right, like you're having that book or having any wherever your idea is like having something that helps you make the decisions that work for you is (Ethan: Yeah) going to be more valuable then you know, just getting the tips on where how to how to put it together.Ethan Waldman  Totally, totally. And that's that's essentially what I set out to do in for tiny houses.Lesley Logan  Yeah. So do you and do you have like, I feel like no matter what people's industry is, there's like this, like, boom, and then like, kind of like peters out in plateaus. Do you feel like the tiny house is still on a boom? Or do you feel like it's on and like, people are still intrigued by it? Like, where do you feel it's going for you?Ethan Waldman  I mean, I think for the tiny house industry as a whole it is still kind of on the up. There's there's a lot of new interest in tiny houses. Laws around the country are changing to be more favorable for building and living in tiny houses. And there are many, many, many more companies that are building tiny houses professionally for people, because as more people are attracted to the movement. Not everyone can build their own tiny home, nor should they. (Lesley laughs) It's a major, it's a major undertaking of time and energy. And for many people, their time might be better spent continuing to do whatever it is that they do to earn money and pay someone else to do the dirty work, (Lesley: Yeah) like building the house.Lesley Logan  Yeah, we were big fans of like, hire people whose strengths are your weaknesses. If you're not a builder, hire a builder. (Ethang: Yeah, yeah.) Go to your thing well. Go what do that as well.Ethan Waldman  I think for me and this I know yours, like, trends in online education in general, is that people are less interested in just like buying a PDF. They want community and they want really to be taught they want like a class. So my ebook still sells. And I think it's like in terms of like the dollar to value ratio, it's still like probably the best 40 bucks you can spend, just because it's like 200 pages long. And if you follow it through, you're gonna have a pretty solid plan for your tiny house at the end. But I've, several years ago, launched an online community called Tiny House Engage. And it's about 100 to 150 people, depending on where we are in in membership. And, you know, that's where I'm providing the like, support, and helping to create a community space for for people who are you know, I, anybody is welcome to join. But I think it's best for people who are like, really sure they want to do it, and on. So like, you're really sure that's like the starting point. We have people who are currently in the middle of their DIY builds, we have people who are working with builders, and we have many people who are living in tiny houses too. So it's a, it's a nice online community.Lesley Logan  That's really cool. And I love how like you keep evolving what your role is in the tiny house industry and how you (Ethan: Yeah) you're like seeing a problem. And you're like solving that problem with your next, your next thing. What, when someone is considering, like, when you consider the tiny house? What were your biggest worries and what were like some of the surprises that you had, because like, I feel like people are like, okay, even if it's not a tiny house, if they're like, "I'm gonna leave my job, or I'm gonna move here," like, people have worries and fears. And then there's like, like surprises. So what what were yours in your move?Ethan Waldman  Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. And I'm trying to put myself back in my, like, late 20s brain of like, 2012, thinking about what I was going to do. I think that I was definitely worried, I was always worried about making enough money, I think my biggest fears were around leaving my job. In a way the tiny house felt like the solution to that problem, not not something that I was worried about. I think that I and then once I started building, I definitely had those fears, like, am I going to be able to finish this? Like is this am I actually going to be able to pull it off. And I think that what has continued to surprise me, to this day is just like that tiny houses inspire kind of a kindness in people. And they kind of bring your community out of the woodwork. And even now with how much more common tiny houses are. If you tell people that you're building a tiny house, they just want to help. They're like, "That's so cool. I've always wanted to do that myself." You know, "Oh, I have a box of hardwood flooring in my basement that like that's leftover from the kitchen renovation? Do you want it? Or like, can I come by and help you one day." It's just like, it always surprises me how people are willing to kind of help when you share a vision like that, that is exciting. And kind of just something a little bit out of the ordinary. But that is an aspirational thing for a lot of people.Lesley Logan  I love that. I actually that, that is actually a wonderful surprise to still like, I love to be surprised by people like our neighborhood (Ethan: Yeah) is not a neighborhood of tiny houses, obviously, we a five bedroom, but their old houses, there are particular style house in a particular neighborhood, everything was built in the late 40s, early 50s. And, and so people will will literally say like, "Oh, hey, we have these pains from the 1960s. If anyone's house needs them, I don't want to throw them away." And I just I love that about people like who are prideful in those things. They want to make sure that those things continue on and go to a good spot. And they and they continue to have their their moments. So I think that's cool that people do that for a tiny house owner. What do you think it is that draws people into wanting to live in a tiny house? Like what's the, what's the awe? Because, you know, like that, it's very interesting how many people, "I wanna live in a tiny house." Like you, you saw it as like a way of solving the fear of money thing. Is it, do you think it's like they see it as solving a problem that they have or?Ethan Waldman  I would say that that the majority of people that I interact with in my community, and just on my email list, the the financial piece is probably the biggest driver for them. Whether it's not wanting to have a mortgage and not be in debt, or just wanting to be able to own a house outright or just own a house, period. You know, even with a loan that's that's more affordable. I think that's the biggest driver. I've been surprised. You know, I always thought when I started the business, that my customers were going to be people like me like 20 something, millennials basically who were, you know, I graduated from college in 2007 right as the like crazy real estate ...Lesley Logan  Oh yeah. I graduated in 2005 and I worked in retail. So ... (Lesley laughs)Ethan Waldman  Yeah ... The idea of, of mortgaging your future to buy a house seemed crazy to me. And so I was like, "This is gonna be all millennials," who are like, burnt and like, just scared to buy, you know, to spend more money. What I'm seeing now is that there are millennials and younger people building tiny houses. But we're not staying in our tiny houses, because like, we're kind of at the beginning stages of our lives, like, we're going to find partners and potentially have families, children, dogs, pets, all these things. It's surprising to me how many boomers are retiring into tiny houses, that's been like, the biggest area in terms of like, students in my courses, people who buy my stuff, people join my community, like, are are like older folks who are actually, like, if you think about it in a much better point in their lives to downsize because, (Lesley: Yeah) kids have grown up, they don't need the space anymore. They're on more of a fixed income, potentially, if they've retired. And so these are actually the people who are like, building tiny houses or buying tiny houses, and they're like, "I'm gonna stay in here until I can't live on my own anymore."Lesley Logan  I think that is, that makes so much sense. And it's, I think it's really cool, I think. Yes, I agree. The millennials probably saw the tiny home as an as an opportunity to have a home that was their own, and then they're like, okay, but yeah, partners and kids in a tiny home gets a little hard. (Ethan: Yeah, yeah) No matter how organized you are, although people in New York apparently do it all the time with their apartments, so (Ethan: Yeah) I must be able to be done. But um, but my Dad is 70 and he's not in a tiny home, but he has he has downsized. And he I can see how for his generation of people, how helpful it would be to have access to a tiny home because you can (Ethan: Yeah) still feel like you have a home. You have this space that's your own. You know, and still have your independence. I think that's really cool. I love that your your stuff is available to multiple generations of people.Ethan Waldman  Yeah, yeah. And I've like, I'm pretty like tech savvy, but I've also like, in my business had to like, sometimes tone it down. Like I there's no Discord community that you can join when you join my programs because like, we always don't know how to use Discord like, you know, that kind of thing.Lesley Logan  My listeners, I swear, half the listeners are like, "Discord?" (Lesley laughs)Ethan Waldman  Yeah. Or Slack. Like I was like, "Oh, create a private Slack group." Like ...Lesley Logan  Oh, well, same. I have my Agency group is on Slack. Because I didn't want to put them on Facebook because I don't want them doing, like going for business coaching. (Ethan: Yeah) And then also seeing like, what, their weird Uncle Rob also wrote on one of their posts. I wanted them to like have a space that like this is safe for you to go. And also no algorithm, right. And everyone is like we have to put them in like us. We put them in a little Slack mini where we train them on Slack and they actually learn how to use Slack.Ethan Waldman  That's awesome.Lesley Logan  Before they come into the main group, otherwise, it's like, waa. (Ethan: Yeah) Yeah, well, um, I think yeah, you'll I mean, with depending with your millennial peeps, you can obviously tone it up and then with the other people just tone it down. But I also just think, even though the world has got, finally gotten online, as like the one as one of the few benefits of the last couple of years, people are still hesitant right and are unsure. And so having your stuff be accessible for that the boomer generation who's like if they have an iPhone, but they're not, they don't consider themselves tech savvy. (Ethan: Yeah) Cool. So what is next for you? Like, what are you excited about now? What are you kind of toying with or kind of being it till you see it now?Ethan Waldman  Yeah, so in November of 21, I piloted kind of a live cohort based course that's based around Tiny House Decisions, like Tiny House Decisions is the framework for the course. But it's seven weeks long with a lot of exercises and worksheets and things and then a weekly, two hour Q&A call, essentially. And so we've run that twice now. I have a co instructor for that. And I'd really like to figure out how to scale that up and get more people into it and potentially create like a self paced version of it.Lesley Logan  Yeah, I I love hearing what people are working on next, because I think people need to hear like they've run it a couple times. And it's not like (Ethan: Yeah) you're like, "Oh, we know how to do it all." Like, it's always testing and tweaking and making (Ethan: Yeah) adjustments and figuring out like, how do we get and how does anything go from being for a small group which is very fun people loved being accessible to the many.Ethan Waldman  Yeah, yeah, (Lesley: Yeah) exactly. And you know the the even just the name of it sometimes you can't find the right name for for a course. And I think I like figured it out between this last one and before we do it the next time so I think I'm gonna rename it Tiny House Accelerator, because that's kind of what it is.Lesley Logan  Oh, it's kind of like what was, like, incubate, what's the accelerator situation in Silicon Valley? Do you know I'm talking about?Ethan Waldman  Oh, yeah, like incubators for (Lesley: Y com?) companies .Y Combinator.Lesley Logan  Y Combinator. There it is. Yeah. (Ethan: Yeah) So yeah, but I like the word accelerator. And it's true. Like, when you're naming anything, because I hate having to name things because things that are cute, like don't work or clever doesn't work. Like it has to be like, it has to be kind of like it has to be SEO friendly and make sense. And but the word accelerator is really great because people that's what people want. They want it to be, like they want the information downloaded fast. (Ethan: Yeah, yeah) I like it. Test it out. You'll have to keep us posted on how it goes.Ethan Waldman  Yeah. Yeah, I will.Lesley Logan  Yeah. All right, everyone. So we're gonna take a quick moment and you're gonna find out how you can take this Tiny House Accelerator course, to get the book. Find out more about Ethan, so one second.Okay, Ethan, where can people find you, follow you, learn more information from you?Ethan Waldman  Sure. Yeah. I'd say like, the best place is thetinyhouse.net. That's my website. I would love for your listeners, since they're already listening to a podcast and they, I presume, understand how to listen to a podcast. Check out my podcast. It's called Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast. And it's been going for over four years. There's 250 episodes, deep interviews with just all kinds of people, van life, sailboat, school buses, tiny houses, professional builders, DIYers, it's like all in there. So like the podcast back catalogue is is a goldmine of of tiny house inspiration and information.Lesley Logan   Oh, my God. Brad's gonna binge out on the next drive.Ethan Waldman  Well, he told me that he already started. So (Lesley laughs)Lesley Logan  Of course he did. (Ethan: Yeah) Of course he did. Sometimes he sees who's coming on the show. And he gets he gets a little. He's like (Ethan: Alright) on a rabbit trail. Yeah, awesome. Okay, well, are you on Instagram or anywhere else on any socials?Ethan Waldman  Yeah, I'm on Instagram and Twitter. Just at @ethanwaldman, my name, Facebook, I'm at Building the Tiny House. I've like I've really, in the last several years, kind of identified that that like using social media doesn't make me feel particularly great. And it also is is a bit of a content hamster wheel. And so I've I've really tried to kind of step away from the content hamster wheel. And, you know, if you follow me on social, you'll, you'll hear about the latest things, but like, the podcast and my email newsletter are like, where you'll kind of be getting the most direct like, word (Lesley: Yes) from from Ethan.Lesley Logan  I hear you on that. I think (Ethan: Yeah) even though I'm in the hamster wheel of content creation, for a lot of our other brands, (Ethan: Yeah) you get the most up to date and info sooner if you're listening to the pod or the newsletter. (Ethan: For sure, for sure.) Because like, I there's something about it that feels like I'm writing a letter or I'm on a phone call (Ethan: Yeah) versus like, I'm putting this thing together to hopefully get your attention and hopefully answer a question that you may not be asking yourself today but you might be asking me yesterday. Yeah, I hear you. Okay, before I let you go, Ethan, you've been a wealth of just inspiration. BE IT action items, so we'd like to leave our listeners with bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps they can take to being it till they see it, whether it's in a tiny home or anything else.Ethan Waldman  Yeah, I would say so I'll answer that question based on that you're interested in, in living in a tiny home. I challenge you to, to, you know, pick up a book or not about decluttering and downsizing and start start doing that. Because if you are feeling like a tiny home is far into your future in terms of saving up the money for it or just having the time to build it. Down, you know, lowering your footprint, just even in the house that you live in now is a great start to living tiny, and it's an actionable step that you can take now.Lesley Logan  Yeah. And I also think like, even if you don't want to live tiny, we can all use a little decluttering and lowering of our footprint (Ethan: Oh yeah.) on this planet. Yeah. Well, that is, I love that. Thank you so much.Ethan Waldman  You're welcome.Lesley Logan  All right. Well, everyone, how are you going to do this in your life? How are you going to use the tips, the things, the stories that Ethan has told you? Let us know by tagging the @be_it_pod on Instagram, you can tag @ethanwaldman. Obviously, if you're on his newsletter, you can actually just reply to an email and tell him there. And let us know because you know, whether or not you want to live in a tiny home, I hope you can see like the journey that Ethan went on and how it's taken him to where he wants to be. And then sometimes we want to know the entire design from start to finish. It doesn't always work. It doesn't work that way ever actually. So so I hope it was an inspiration for you and taking the steps that you want and being it till you see it.That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day! 'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'. Brad Crowell  It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli. Lesley Logan  Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing. Brad Crowell  Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi. Lesley Logan  Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can. Brad Crowell  And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.Transcribed by https://otter.aiSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Today, you'll get the inside scoop on what it's like to live in AND to be a founding member of an intentional community. My guest, Mike Moore, has lived in his community for over 25 in a ground-bound tiny house designed by Jay Shafer. Full show notes and images at thetinyhouse.net/214In This Episode:Breakups: Who stays and who has to go?Cluster zoning is a mutually beneficial arrangementAn informal but effective selection processWhat is a legacy clause?Considerations for ADA compliance and aging in placeThinking about living in (or starting) an intentional community? Listen up!This Week's Sponsor: Tiny House DecisionsTiny House Decisions is the guide that I wish I had when I was building my tiny house. And it comes in three different packages to help you on your unique tiny house journey. If you're struggling to figure out the systems for your tiny house, how you're going to heat it, how you're going to plumb it, what you're going to build it out, then tiny house decisions will take you through the process systematically and help you come up with a design that works for you. Right now I'm offering 20% off any package of Tiny House Decisions for podcast listeners. Head over to https://www.thetinyhouse.net/thd and use the coupon code tiny at checkout!

Over the last two decades, tiny homes have taken up a firm place in the collective consciousness and despite no single definition, they generally refer to small buildings (less than 400 sq ft) where space is maximized to create a long-term residence. The wider tiny house movement has gained immense popularity among various demographic groups, and is underscored by a minimalist ethos that “less is more” utilizing formal design and architectural concepts. However the main assumption is that homeowners can increase affordability while reducing the impact of their environmental footprint. Proponents of the movement are keen to work alongside policy makers and planners to address a number of complimentary housing issues. For example, as a solution to a growing housing shortage and affordability crisis in large cities and conurbations on a global level. Also, as a temporary form of housing for frontline workers and to meet the demands of a rising digital workforce. Indeed the tiny house movement is not only gathering momentum but it's also confronting these challenges head on. Tiny homes have a small footprint but they offer a great deal to those people with an open mind; In particular, to adventurous homeowners, to investment property owners and to individuals looking for a simpler lifestyle or vacation. In this episode we invite Jennifer McCarthy, President and Founder of Teacup Tiny Homes based in Lethbridge, Alberta to explain various aspects of the operational side of her business. She discusses the plan models which her company designs and builds; How conforming to the latest building and efficiency codes produces a more sustainable Tiny House; How smaller spaces can be maximized to make them look and feel bigger, and her leadership insights regarding the Tiny Home Industry. We trace the origins of the tiny house movement from early thinkers and adopters such as Sarah Susanka and Jay Shafer, who both influenced the broader conversation about creating a better, more thought out space, emphasizing quality over quantity. We introduce fascinating research which confirms the growing trend of conventional houses getting bigger over the past five decades. New US homes today are 1,000 square feet larger than in 1973 and living space per person has nearly doubled. Interestingly, while houses are getting bigger, family size is getting smaller. We also cite a UCLA social science study reprinted in 2017 which highlights the effects of consumerism and material culture, explaining how empty space has been repurposed for storage use. But on a darker note, how consumer societies are drowning in a “culture of clutter.” In contrast, Tiny Homes offer homeowners the opportunity to value, quality of space over quantity of square footage. Clearly Tiny Homes are an alternative to traditional forms of housing by making us re-examine the underlying housing trends which have created undue societal pressure for decades but most importantly, how we view our quality of life

Alexis Stevens is the co-founder of tiny house expedition, the DIY tiny house, dweller and advocate. Along with our partner Christian Parsons, they inspire others to rethink housing through thought, provoking storytelling, educational events, and resource sharing.Their work includes the acclaimed educational documentary [00:01:00] series. Living tiny legally. Living, tiny legally. It was featured on Washington post NPR business, insider parade magazine, curved entry, hugger. Cool. What were some of your takeaways from listening to this episode? Well, I'm in a real kick right now with mobile dwellings.So it's really fun to banter with Alexis who is equally wonky about tiny house on wheels regulations. The tiniest moment is very fractured and stealthy by nature. So it's fun to try to anticipate how the stealthy movement will actually play out. In the future technology has enabled mobile dwellings, like RVs vans, tiny homes, and park model RVs to be far more convenient and practical than they would have been for living 20 years ago.And I expect that we will look back almost consoling only to the days when tiny houses on wheels weren't even legal to live in, in residential zones. And think how weird it was that we didn't allow people to live in mobile dwellings. Kelsey, what were some of your takeaways? Alexis is incredibly personable and we had a great time chatting with her.She has traveled the country in search of knowledge [00:02:00] and experience of how tiny house communities are collecting and advocating to improve local regulations, to make this lifestyle more accessible. Let's get to our interview with Alexis. Kol Peterson: As, as Kelcy was introducing you, my Alexa device was responding and I was like,oh shoot, ,that's going to happen this whole episode -got unplug that. That that must be so annoying. It is so annoying. Alexis Stephens: We recently filmed in like three tiny houses with Alexas and they had to turn them off and yeah, it gets old and Alexa got creepy. I don't know if it was because I was there and she felt competition, Kol Peterson: What a bummer, huh? [00:03:00] I mean, you can change for your own self. You can change the name of Alexa to somebody else, but like everybody else is still going to have the default Alexa. So it's going to pester you for the rest of your life. Your bio was just read, but let's just hear a little bit about your personal endeavors with living in tiny homes. Some people have a little bit of context for your history, with the you know, living in one. Alexis Stephens: Sure. Back in 2014 Christian and I ordered our, our trailer and built our tiny house over the next nine months.And he was the main builder, but I helped, I learned a lot of new skills and we had a lot of great help for friends and family. And like so many people in tiny houses, we fell pretty hard down the rabbit hole. Before we decided to build and research like crazy for, you know, for personal choice to simplify.It was a time in my life that where that just felt so right, [00:04:00] but I'm just an all or nothing person. And as I was researching, you know, I really fell in love with the movement and how creatively tiny homes are being used to address personal and community needs. And so I got the idea to travel around with our tiny house and document the movement.And so I pitched Christian on both at the same time, I was like, let's build a house. Like I want to build a house and I have this documentary idea. Do you want to do it with me? Because we'd only been dating for a year at that time when I pitched it. Fortunately he was a really good sport and really loved the idea of it.The rest is history. And after we finished our house at 2015, we ended up traveling for about four and a half years zigzagging across the United States, peaking into Canada. And it had just the most wonderful adventure. And most of that was around documenting as much as we could of the tiny house movement, the people, communities legal action that was happening.And then of course we threw in some, some fun stuff [00:05:00] and some family visits, but I'm really happy to say that now we just traveled three months out of the year and have a home base in central Oregon. Kol Peterson: Awesome. So this is not going to be so much focused on your personal experiences but rather the tiny house movement at large and specifically the regulatory things that are occurring in the U S so, and, you know, tying that into ADUs to some extent, but just more generally legalization of tiny homes on wheels.We're going to talk about your specific documentary series on that later, but let's talk more about the nuts and bolts of it. So can you attempt to define tiny homes on wheels? Alexis Stephens: Yeah, absolutely. You know, the term tiny house is a slippery one. That's for sure, especially in the media, but a tiny house on wheels, also known as a movable tiny house is built on a trailer using traditional housing materials and techniques for the most part, but at its core, it's a hybrid [00:06:00] structure that has a lot in common with like a travel trailer, as far as mobility, but with more durable materials construction, more kin to a traditional house than at RV, which makes it more suitable for a year round living, you know, think insulation, you know, is a big one.The difference between an RV and a tiny house is night and day it's, it's a residential house versus a camper. It's, that's what we're talking about. Kol Peterson: Would you say that there's a universally agreed upon definition of a tiny house on wheels in terms of size? Obviously it's on wheels. Aside from that, is there any other like core definitions that we should bear in mind or is it kind of all over the map? Alexis Stephens: The term is, is still squishy, so to speak. And, but I will say that in tiny house, on wheels or movable tiny house zoning ordinances it is starting to get a little bit more formalized.And in most of most of those you know, what I, a version of what I said and more formalized language [00:07:00] is, is becoming more widely accepted. Typically they'll say a chassis instead of a trailer. And, and in some areas, particularly California, they do like to distinguish a tiny house from an, a traditional RV, because, well, I'm sure we'll get into this word later.They are trying to discourage, you know, RVs in backyards and, and want something that looks like a cottage that resembles an ADU. Kol Peterson: So what roles do you see tiny homes on wheels playing in housing, a formal legal housing on residential properties?Alexis Stephens: You know, I love a tiny house on a residential property because it's so, so flexible is great as a caretaker unit and not necessarily, you know, it could go either way. It could be like your mom, your mom, you know, comes to live in your backyard. Cause you've had a baby and she just can't stand to be away, but you maybe can't send, have her in the house.You know, or vice versa where you, you or a [00:08:00] nurse comes and lives in a backyard in a temporary fashion to take care of someone. We just visited someone in Eldorado Hills, California doing just that. Her parents health is starting to wane and she lives on their property, but doesn't plan to be there forever.So very, very flexible. Yeah. Besides this, the caretaking idea is just another housing option. A long-term more affordable housing option. That's very mutually beneficial for the homeowner and the tiny dweller. You know, I think sometimes people look down on tiny houses on wheels in this like temporary mobile fashion that they are as, you know, taking advantage not paying their fair share.When in reality, the majority, I mean the majority of tiny houses in my personal experience on residential property are helping pay the mortgage, the property taxes. We just visited a great situation where a woman was divorced, a single income. [00:09:00] What is she going to do? Her whole life is there.And so she welcomed a couple of tiny houses onto her property to pay her bills. Kol Peterson: So sounds pretty similar to ADUs in that way. How would you differentiate the roles that tiny houses on wheels and ADUs can play in housing on residential properties?Alexis Stephens: You know, it's, there's a lot of similarities, like you said. I think the main difference is the flexibility, you know, it's flexible infill housing that can be removed as needed, which is kind of, kind of great because you know, dedicating to an ADU is a very long-term permanent situation where, you know, this, the cost of it alone, you know, I mean, you're not going to want to take it down once it's up where a tiny house like it, you know, if you need it to back could be gone for when you need to sell the house or if your situation changes.Kol Peterson: And I'll chime in with a couple of responses after my questions, because I have a lot of thoughts about this [00:10:00] too. So forgive me. So I would also say that tiny homes on wheels are vastly less expensive than ADUs in general. And B to your flexibility point. There, this opens up this whole other marketplace of potential things that don't yet exist, but marketplace actors such as third parties that could own the tiny houses and lease it to either the dweller or to the owner of the property could exist.Whereas with with ADUs, you could theoretically come up with some way to do that, but it would be really challenging. Tiny homes on wheels definitely afford some really innovative new business models. Alexis Stephens: Yeah, excellent points. You know, the cost is a big one. You know, it's, it's incredible how much money you can save when you, when you skip the foundation.And the price range of tiny houses. This is so great. I know people complain about that, but you really can get something that's suitable to you. And the loans are just becoming more available all the time. Kol Peterson: This wasn't one of my questions, but like how much does a tiny house costs, what is the range that you offer? And then can you briefly [00:11:00] speak to this financing option? Alexis Stephens: Sure the range is tricky because it varies greatly on size customization. The materials used. Also, we got the pandemic factor, you know, with prices going up. So I'll try to be a little bit more generous you know, on the low end from a builder $50,000 and that, and that might be pre pandemic times, but we'll say low ends, $50,000 high-end it's $115,000.The majority I would say would be probably between 65 and 90 from a builder. Now, if you have the time ability, ability to learn a place to build, you can build for much less by being resourceful. We certainly did. Of course I was many years ago, but we use a lot of salvage and reclaim materials that we got for free or low cost. Oftentimes the cost was our sweat equity into like tearing down the walls off an old farmhouse. [00:12:00] Those opportunities still exist, but it's just not accessible or realistic for everyone Kol Peterson: And financing? Alexis Stephens: So financing. So there are a number of credit unions who will lend for a tiny house. They're the biggest player.And then a number of personal loan. Oh, what's the word I'm looking for? That you can get personal loans from a lot of like online sources now. I would say the most, well-known right now is Liberty Bank of Utah. Even though the Utah bit, they service the nation and they work with a number of builders, they require certification.There's still feasibility, I think, for a DIYer, but they have very reasonable, reasonable terms. They do 15 to 20 year loans. So something that could be paid off much quicker maybe than a 30 year loan and I'm blanking on the, on the exact rates or whatnot, but they're lending all the time, which is fantastic.Now I'm like, oh, yay. [00:13:00] There's like a couple of handfuls, you know, I know this is a, a big country, but that's a big difference from a few years ago. Kol Peterson: Yeah. And I mean, there's both financing opportunities emerging as well as like insurance opportunities emerging. And we don't go into too many details on that, but one point I'll just make for people on the call and maybe you can respond to this.It's like ADU construction, loan financing is based on like GSE sponsored you know Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac sponsored Types of loans, whereas this type of loan is not secured against a property, is that correct? Alexis Stephens: Exactly. Yep. These are unsecured loans you know, personal loan. So, you know, there's ups and downsides with that.Oh, I also have to give a shout out to one of my favorite nonprofits is Operation Tiny Home. They have a fantastic grant program as a down payment assistance grant program. And what, you know, you think, well, what's the down payment on a tiny house, you know, for some people it's a drop in the hat, but for a lot of people who really do need to get into affordable housing and can't [00:14:00] afford a monthly, tiny house payment. And you know, probably a lot lease too, they, they struggle with the upfront money and that's where operation tiny home comes in. They're also launching a secondary grant program. If you haven't heard of them, I highly recommend you check it out.Kol Peterson: People sometimes ask me like how many people would actually want to really want to live in an ADU. And I'm like pretty much any one and two person household could definitely live in ADU. It's not, it's not that big of a deal to downsize to 800 square feet or 1000 square feet or whatever.And, you know, that might seem like a weird concept to downsize to an ADU, but once you've been in an ADU, you see that they're actually just like, you know, decent, a good size, comfortable, luxurious. Tiny homes on wheels are a little bit different. They're significantly smaller, oftentimes 200 square feet.So with that factor in mind, but other factors as well, what percentage of the US population would realistically consider living in a tiny house on wheels if they were just as [00:15:00] legitimate as a single family house in terms of the legal structure for doing so? Alexis Stephens: Yeah, those are really good question. You know, for, I like to preface by saying, I often find that tiny houses on wheels work really well for a number of people for a season of their life: starter home, retirement home, transition out of divorce. Raise my hand here. There's a lot of ways that tiny house would fit, but not forever. For most people. Fortunately, there was a study done at the end of 2020 by a Fidelity National Financial affiliate and it's not a huge sampling, I think only 3000, but nonetheless 56% said that they would consider living in a tiny home.That's huge. I think. And I mean, and more than that 86% said they were considering it as a first time home or as a retirement option. And I do feel like that reflects where we are awareness wise of tiny houses, [00:16:00] say from 2014 to 2021, you know, the shows helped make it cool, you know, with a lot of unrealistic expectations, but now people, you know, it's, it's rough out there.And I think, you know, a lot of people living in a room for most of their adult life, you know, in a shared housing situation, you know, if you think about it in that context, all the single people out there, there's more single people than ever people without children. And if you're used to having your roommate.What's that difference between a room in a tiny house, really at the end of the day, except that you get a kitchen and a bathroom?Can you review some of the common regulatory barriers that tiny houses on wheels suffer from in terms of placing them on residential? Yeah. So I mean, very generically building code requirements zoning, you know, but you know, I'll dig into that more. I think really what I've heard the most [00:17:00] is cities just saying, "I don't know how to deal with the tiny house. Like where does it fit? Is it an RV?" And there's a lot of communities that are very opposed to having RVs around. And so I think, and there's a reluctance to. There's a reluctance to go outside of the box, you know, because it requires more work and a lot of aggravation from maybe say some NIMBY groups who don't want, you know, poverty, you know, poor people, housing, as some people see it close to them, because it really what's amazing to me is that you can create a tiny house zoning ordinance overnight.I mean, it doesn't take long. I mean, in the, the ones that exist out there, it can happen in two months. It can happen in two years. You know what the difference is is people, I'll just be frank, bitching and moaning about it, because it's not that hard, especially now where you have templates for big cities, small cities you know, it's really easy to [00:18:00] copy and paste. I think it's important to note, which, you know, this is pretty elementary, but you know, there are still a minimum square footage requirements. And, you know, in certain areas that especially who work on outdated versions of, of building code you know, I, I really love seeing the California and I think we might get into this later, California is embracing like some RV standards because building departments are overloaded.And so I can't understand that this is a real challenge because figuring out how to use the residential building code to apply to a movable structure is really tricky. You know, the IRC, appendix Q can address a movable tiny house from the trailer up, and then really you can use alternative means and methods to address the trailer.But it, it just is something that requires a lot of extra work that I, I don't think cities are that willing to do.Kol Peterson: Some of the common barriers , going into the building codes a little bit, from my vantage are things like minimum headroom [00:19:00] requirements. Like you have to have six foot eight inches of headroom on the lower level, not to mention the upper level and tiny house. And the wheels are 13 and a half feet high because they have to be road legal in order to be pulled down the highway once in their life or twice in their life or whatever.And it's almost impossible, therefore, to fit a legal second story, which is by default where most sleeping areas are in tiny homes on wheels, because you don't want to put it on the ground level because there isn't enough space because it's such a small structure because it can only be eight and a half feet wide.And that's just one example of a building code regulation that doesn't really mesh well Alexis Stephens: Yeah, and actually I'm such a tiny nerd that I realize maybe not everyone knows what appendix Q is. So appendix Q was created for houses 400 square feet and, and below to address some of those exact things like head height, emergency egress alternative.Vertical access to the loft, you know, allowing for ship's ladder, which take up much less floor space. Cause it's very hard to get a code compliance set of stairs [00:20:00] in a house that's under 300 square feet, you know, most times. And so it really looked at those pain points and, and addressed them and made it much easier.There is a catch it's a fabulous step forward, the catch is, it doesn't encompass everything for instance, you know, in the code, which I find ridiculous there's things like how much room you got to have around your toilet or whatever for servicing purposes has nothing to do with safety. Why is that a requirement?And then the law comes down to the inspector then, right? Having an inspector who looks at what you're doing, let me pause and say that in the Lake Dallas Tiny Home Village in Texas, this is the first community on a local level that adopted the appendix Q and then applied it to moveable tiny houses.And what they did is they require a tie down requirement and that you have to be skirted and have your electrical connection inspected locally. The houses also have to be inspected by a third [00:21:00] party. Now, what I know is a third-party inspector. In this case, he will look at the tiny house. Does it meet the appendix Q? Does it meet the intent of the code? Not so much the letter of the code sometimes. Kol Peterson: I think there's a, as you alluded to, there's a host of different building code barriers, aside from just leaving sleeping lofts, insulation requirements. If you have an eight and a half foot wide, tiny house, you can really only fit two by fours. Two by fours aren't you can't meet the insulation energy code requirements for a lot of jurisdictions.You can't easily put in guardrails to get up to the front deck to get inside to the tiny house. There isn't, as you mentioned, you know, the minimum room sizes of 70 square feet. My opinion is we're trying to put like a square peg in a round hole with this stuff, and I'm really hesitant to try to formalize or squeeze tiny house on wheels, development regulations within conventional IRC codes for all of these reasons.Alexis Stephens: I can really appreciate [00:22:00] that. It does feel that way. And I mean, it's just amazing how dense, you know, the IRC has become over the years and I think you nailed it. It just doesn't, it feels like apples and oranges sometimes. It shouldn't be that hard, but you know, stuff doesn't work on common sense, you know, unfortunately. Kol Peterson: And yet to the average person, it seems very odd that tiny homes on wheels that look cute, look like adorable ADUs, are not allowed. What's your perspective on this in terms of common perception of, you know, 'Hey, why, why shouldn't I be allowed to live in this tiny house?' Alexis Stephens: Yeah, great question. I'm wearing a home is where you park it shirt today. But oftentimes I wear, I have a legalized tiny shirt and I also have a bumper sticker that says that I can't tell you the number of people who stopped me to say, well, what do you mean by that?It's a great conversation starter. So I don't wear it if I don't want to talk to people , I'll tell you that much, because I think people [00:23:00] are like, are very confused by the idea that it wouldn't be allowed. Why not? One, I see it on TV and it's like, I don't, it's like, I'm not trying to talk down to people about, you know, by saying I see it on TV.Therefore it should be a thing, but, but really on a grassroots level, we don't get educated on building codes and zoning and land use and all this stuff. The average person that was very little about that. And I, I think because of that, you know, people miss out on opportunities that exist to them, especially in places where there are ADUs, for instance, because they're not aware of it.If you're not a super nerd. I digress a little bit. You know, I think a lot of common sense kind of people say, well, it seems practical to me is a great idea. I could just stick it in my yard. And voila, , I got a place for the kid when he comes home for college or whatever, people, people understand more and more people understand the flexibility of the use.And so it is kind of [00:24:00] befuddling is that a word that they're not allowed? Kol Peterson: Maybe tell us a little bit about THIA. . And what is the mission of THIA with regard to legalization of tiny homes in residential zones? Alexis Stephens: Cool. So THIA is the tiny home industry association is currently the leading advocacy organization in the United States that we also collaborate with folks in other countries, especially Canada.So we are on a mission to advocate for regulation changes develop standards, promote best practices, basically for the wide spread use of tiny homes as permanent and permissible housing. We try many approaches towards making permanent and permissible housing happen and using different tools that are available, whether it be RV standards, residential standards you know, we focus a lot on the movable tiny house, but we also do, we are huge fans of, [00:25:00] of ADUs.And so I mean, we often do tell people, like if you, if your town is having a meeting on ADUs, a hearing on it, show up, this is for you because the first step and a lot of, a lot of times is to get ADUs allowed. And then, and then that leads the way to having the, the movable tiny house conversation.Kol Peterson: What are some of the current regulatory approaches that you've observed in terms of legalizing tiny homes on wheels on residential properties?Alexis Stephens: The most common right now in the most places. And most of those are in California, but they are sprinkled in cities across the nation is allowing moveable tiny houses as ADUs. So I know I really love that Portland didn't classify them as ADUs so that people can have multiple structures on their property.That makes a lot of sense to me, but where it has I think why the movable tiny houses ADU has really taken off [00:26:00] is, is because that it bypasses the way these ordinances are written, it bypasses the building department in that they require them to be built to RV standards. Oftentime requires a certification and this takes a pressure off of an overloaded building department and allows the permitting to be done on a much more expedited level to, to meet, you know, the.The housing crisis, you know, just, this is, I love about the cities who've embraced this, it's like finally saying, 'Hey, we have a crisis. Maybe we should do something different. Maybe we should allow something and actually expedite it so that people can implement these on their properties much more quickly.' And I think that has a lot of appeal to communities are really struggling.So we try to hit on that a lot at THIA is, you know, look how practical and easy this can be. And yeah, so I that's, that's probably the best approach right now on the whole. And it makes the most sense, especially with land costs, to really focus on getting them on [00:27:00] residential properties and people using the ADU is the best way for people to wrap their head around it.Kol Peterson: The tiny house on wheels being built to as a movable tiny house under the ADU code. Is there other parts that you've seen elsewhere in the country aside from Portland, which we can talk about briefly? Alexis Stephens: Sure. So I mean, there's not, that's not a ton. That's that's the primary one though. There are a few pocket neighborhoods and like I mentioned, Lake Dallas is great. There's another one and Durango, Colorado called Escalante village, both very, very similar where they use planned unit development ordinance they, they put it in an.Not always the most desirable place. So Lake Dallas is just walking distance to downtown. And they use a residential code but amended locally for the, to apply for the trailer to get over that that hurdle. And in those instances, those are cities where the RV [00:28:00] code didn't seem attractive to them.And they like having a place for tiny houses, right. They like, they need a place, they need a park. And part of me doesn't like that because it's like, we shouldn't be pushing them to the fringes, but on the other hand, I've stayed in a lot of tiny home communities and they could be a wonderful environment to live in.So I'm okay. I'm okay with that idea, especially I love Lake Dallas and some of the others you know, they're set up very much like a traditional pocket neighborhood was shared green space and landscaped very nicely. So it does feel like a neighborhood and not like an RV park Kol Peterson: As somebody who's developed like a RV park for tiny homes on wheels. When, you know, one of the issues with, with designating or historically with like both RVs and with tiny homes on wheels would be that you can only do that within commercial zones. Commercial zones are more expensive. And if you can afford to do it in the size lot that you need, it's going to be on the fringe the walkable bikeable area, if at all. And so [00:29:00] like, yeah, it's a problem, you know, from a zoning perspective, if you're designating it designating, you know, RVs or tiny homes solely to parks you're, you know, essentially relegating them out of existence because of the economic, or at least in desirable, walkable bikeable areas because of the nature of how cities are zoned and the cost of real estate.Let's briefly talk about Portland's code innovations. Take a crack at spelling out what you think Portland did differently than other jurisdictions have done with, with in terms of legalizing tiny homes on wheels on residential propertiesPortland is a fabulously progressive ordinance regarding tiny houses and RVs, which began with an emergency housing ordinance a handful of years ago where they temporarily allowed them on residential property with some minimal restrictions. And as it was getting the sunset this year, Great group of [00:30:00] advocates, including yourself you know, help to rally, to push the city, to create a permanent pathway for that.And the city very gladly embraced that. And so now tiny houses and RVs are allowed on residential property with minimal restrictions and tools to help overcome hurdles like hookup fees like sewer hookup fees by providing a grant program. But what's special about this is why they're on residential property.Alexis Stephens: They do not, they are not classified as ADUs. So a homeowner can still build an ADU and have an RV or a tiny house on their property. Which is really wonderful. . I think those are, those are some of the big points. And, and, you know, importantly they're not required to be built to park model RV standards.Kol Peterson: And so when you were really, when you were alluding to the movable tiny homes, you, you mentioned have to build, be built to RV standards. Isn't it true that they have to be built to park model RV standards. And are those the same as RV [00:31:00] standards or is that a category of RV standards? Alexis Stephens: Oh, that's a great question.Both, both are, in some cases, either one is utilized I mean an RVs and RVs, just either a park model, a travel trailer in the, and the main difference, you know, in abroad in broad strokes is size and and you know, just to keep it really simple, you really get in the weeds, but at the end of the day, they're, they're very similar.Kol Peterson: Interesting. Okay. I didn't, I didn't realize that I thought there was maybe more differentiation between the two, but I mean, one, one difference that comes to mind is like motorized non-motorized isn't that? I mean, cause you can have like. A motorized RV, but that's not what we're talking. Alexis Stephens: Yeah. Fair, fair point. In the United States, when we use the word RV, we are referring to motorized and non-motorized RVs and it's true in the, the park model category is never motorized.. Where the travel trailer side of it can be, we'll see, I say travel trailer, but it's [00:32:00] travel trailer, motor home because I had had enough coffee and I'm blanking on the exact names of the codes at this moment and I don't want to say the wrong thing. But when you're outside a park model, it can be motorized. But in any time where you have a tiny house on residential property, they specify a non-motorized RV. Even if they use park model code, they just go out of their way just to say, you know, we don't want a house truck, you know, we're talking about something, built on the chassis period.,Kol Peterson: Of the approaches that you've seen, have you seen any evidence of which ones are actually working in terms of tiny houses on wheels being put on the ground in residential properties? Alexis Stephens: I'll tell you what's widely successful in a range of small cities, large cities, rural counties more urban counties is making the pitch that a tiny house on wheels is no different than an ADU except for the chassis.And of course, we just talked about all the, the various nuances, but let's face it. The world doesn't run on nuance, [00:33:00] unfortunately, as much as we'd like it to. But Dan Fitzpatrick, who's the president of THIA, is an incredible advocate and we're so lucky to have him. And he, he created this wonderful presentation that all our members have access to and can customize for their local area.But we have seen it's incredible. We have seen how showing how the, the numbers make sense how it could be a really great investment for a primary homeowner to create a spot for a tiny house in the backyard.It really it's really seems to hit home. The key is to change some of the details. So that you're not talking, you're not talking about LA. when you're in a small Texas town, you got to, you got to make it in a way that feels relatable to them. And that's the benefit of where we are today is that so many different size places have accepted it, that you can slightly change the wording to be more appealing. I know this is oversimplified, but like it's incredibly effective. Kol Peterson: Tiny houses on wheels have an embedded DIY [00:34:00] ethos. It's really stemming from the figurative godfather of the tiny house movement, Jay Shafer. What are your thoughts about the differentiation of RVs or similarities to RVs in terms of the development of tiny homes on wheels?Alexis Stephens: Okay. So I guess there's two, two bits here on the differences. You know, a tiny house on wheels, you know, for the most part is highly insulated, sturdy, customizable, huge difference. Okay. This is not really possible in an RV. That's mostly stapled together. I mean, let's face it. That's how most RVs are.Of course you can renovate an RV and it can look beautiful, but it's not going to change the bones of the structure. And a tiny house on wheels can hold up more like the life of a residential structure, unlike an RV that after 10, 15 years is looking pretty rough. Especially without proper upkeep. Now even though they can be moved most only move a tiny house one to three times ever in their ownership of that tiny [00:35:00] house, and that's typically for big life changes. And that's a big thing to point out because unlike an RV, a tiny house does tend to be a little taller and heavier. Though there has been innovation in steel framing kits to help reduce weight of some tiny houses on wheels.But in RV as much more can be much more agile on the road. Not always, there's some beast out there. So that's that really boils it down. There's a very similar footprint, you know, between 16 to 40 foot long, typically eight and a half feet wide. Now I do want to let people know you can build a tiny house that's 10 foot wide with a very low cost wide load permit. It's when you get wider than that, where it gets complicated with moving where you might need to have a follow car and that sort of thing. And the DIY aspect of it. Yeah. So of course, small homes, tiny homes really have been around since forever in its truest sense of just like square footage. And the RV in the 20th century really led the [00:36:00] way to tiny houses as, as artisan and, and creative tinkers started playing around with building different custom things that could, that could be mobile.I think that's really like, that's a really where I think the movable tiny house came from was from totally from the RV world. Just so happens that Jay Schaffer who built a residential style house on a trailer in 1999, really popular, popularized it. Course he was on Oprah. She's a big tastemaker. So, you know, word gets out.But what I love about Jay's roots and, and the creative RV folks is that there's something very American about it, very very much bootstrapping people getting creative and that's like, Jay he's like, 'Wow, okay. Building codes are really restrictive. I dunno where I wanna live. You know, I want to do something that [00:37:00] fits me.That's not available in the market. So he built himself, the teeniest tiniest house on a trailer that he could move around to try to skirt these rules. And you know, on one day you can say, you know, he's rule breaking, but on the other hand, you can say, no, this guy is bootstrapping something that works for him.And that's something that I love about the DIY aspect of the movement. And as it's become more popular, there's less people building their own home, but that's a good thing. And the reason why it's a good thing is not because I don't think you can build a safe home yourself. It's because more people have access to tiny homes than they used to, which means that we're doing something right, because not everyone realistically can build their own home.Kol Peterson: Tell us about the third party certification process that DIY builders can use to build the park model RV standards. Alexis Stephens: Sure. So the real quick, the quick thing about certification, is it certifies that [00:38:00] you're an RV and that just gives you flexibility for, for parking.So you could park an RV park without any problems you can park and cities that have a certification requirement, which is more and more all the time. The main benefit of it is it's accountability, making sure some key things are done correctly. It's definitely not as stringent as building code, but there are third party certifiers like Pacific West Tiny Homes that do a remote certification process for both professionals and DIYers.Kol Peterson: What order of magnitude would you guess there are people actually living full time in tiny homes on wheels and in RVs in the U.S. And I'm not, you know, you might not know the exact answer, but order of magnitude, are we talking a hundred, a thousand, 10,000 or a million Alexis Stephens: Good question. That's a tricky one.RVs is easier because of the RVIA and the way they track things. According [00:39:00] to them, there's maybe more than a million Americans living in RVs full time. I could totally believe that tiny houses on wheels, there are so many people under the radar. We don't have a registration system, but I would say more in the like tens of thousands you know, to be on the safe side,Kol Peterson: What are some aspirations that you have for the tiny house movement in the coming years? Alexis Stephens: I would love to see a cascading ripple effect from what's already been started, which is more local, tiny house ADU ordinances. I love that Oakland is following suit in Portland's footsteps, doing something very similar.I would love to see more people do that because if we want more housing and shelter options, now the way to do it is to make it as easy as possible. And that's what Portland has done. Maine just passed the tiny house state law that says, 'Hey, tiny houses on wheels can be primary and accessory dwellings' .That doesn't solve local [00:40:00] issues.It still has to get, have local approvals. But what it does is it takes away the question we hear all the time. How do I deal with it? Well, the state just told you how you can deal with it now, write it in, get it over with, I mean, so, you know, what's exciting is now having more east coast and west coast examples.There's something for everyone. And so if we can really just get more officials to take this housing crisis, seriously, we can say here's a menu. Which one do you like the best let's let's get this party started. Kol Peterson: Tell us about your new book and your documentary series on legalizing tiny homes and your YouTube channel.Alexis Stephens: So we wrote a book it's coming out September. It's the beginner's guide to tiny houses what you need to know about 400 square foot living or under. It's a really fantastic, thorough overview of all the various aspects of the tiny house world. Useful for people who are complete beginners, but even if you have dipped your toes into the water, I know you're going to learn something new from this book and our [00:41:00] documentary series.So we have a YouTube channel, tiny house expedition, where we cover the, the diverse and dynamic aspects of the tiny house world. And we're now working on third part of our documentary series, living tiny legally. And this one is really going to focus on the implementation of the most exciting tiny house ordinances and laws that exist out there from LA, Portland, Lake Dallas, which is a very small community and to show people what, what does it look like?Because it was, is charming and there's nothing like a charming visual to influence it, but then what are the particulars like? How does the permitting work in the infrastructure? . Kelcy King: That wraps up the interview portion of this episode of the ADU hour. As a reminder, these episodes are the edited audio version of interviews that we conducted via a webinar series. Good news. You can access the full video series via Kol's website, [00:42:00] BuildinganADU.com. Now for the second half of the show I curate questions from the audience that gives our guests the opportunity to dive deeper into a topic or address new ideas and questions.Alexis Stephens: So from Joseph, how has title or deed regarding to tiny homes versus ADUs?Very different, I guess, cause it's personal property bringing personal property. So it's not really associated with those at all. Kol Peterson: And, and, and by extension it's also generally speaking, not going to be taxed as real estate, which is a nice, nice advantage of a mobile dwelling versus fixed dwelling such as and ADU. .Kelcy King: Do you have any experience to share on prefab in tiny houses? Alexis Stephens: Not a lot, but I will say that some of the biggest, tiny house builders or manufacturers out there can, can do multiple kinds of tiny homes like California Tiny House is a great example. And the modular code is very friendly to the tiny house world that they don't call it that, but it can, it can be used to easily build a [00:43:00] movable structure, which is great.Kelcy King: I think this is from Gary and it was from earlier in the show. So I think that you guys touched on it. But just to reiterate, can you recommend a good, tiny home ordinance that might be a good starting point. Alexis Stephens: Good question. It might, to me, it's going to depend on what size community you live in but I will look at what's happening in California. And if you go to the tinyhomeindustryassociation.org, search California on the blog, you're going to see a variety of different size communities. And they're all very similar, but there's some, some nuances, so that's a good place to start.Kol Peterson: And I'm going to give a shout out to Portland's code.. I think it's a different approach. And I think, I think this is one of those areas where there's room for experimentation there isn't, you know, it's not evident yet to me that there's any one best approach yet. And I think we really need more experience with this and more data to support ideas of what is actually going to be the, you know, the best or most effective set of [00:44:00] regulations.But, but that, that not withstanding, I think Alexis suggestion and needing on the T H I is content is, is a good suggestion for now.. Alexis Stephens: Great. Yeah, I agree. It's an all of the above approaches so we can see what sticks Kelcy King: Where do you recommend people get started with figuring out what zoning and permitting requirements are for their area?Alexis Stephens: You want to call your city planning department and ask them you can, a lot of times there's information on the website I've learned. I know people have learned the hard way is that sometimes things don't get updated from the website. So research ahead of time and then verify in person or on by the phone.Kelcy King: Do you know of any tiny houses going into traditional mobile home parks?Alexis Stephens: I do. And Durango, Colorado. Again, this is just one of my great examples because they're so traditional mobile home park and they have Tiny Town. They have a section for movable, tiny houses in it. This is one of, of numerous [00:45:00] examples of this happening.It's one of those grandfathered in old mobile home parks. So I don't think they have any requirements or certification. So it's pretty lax, which is great.Kelcy King: Are there any third-party inspectors who inspect IRC rather than ANSI? Alexis Stephens: Yes. The one-off, I mean, you could probably find them everywhere. I would say if you, if you want Lake Dallas, tiny home village, you go to their website. They, I think they have a link. The third party inspector they use. And they've had a really great experience with him. Really gets tiny homes. Yeah.Kelcy King: For the places that are allowing tiny houses, what requirements are put on the landowners such as concrete pads, what kind of hookups are required? Alexis Stephens: Great question. I know this, this can vary. Sometimes the pad is required. It could be gravel.Doesn't have to be concrete. Sometimes not, but often they are required to hook up to the primary homeowner's sewer. Sometimes they have to go to the street. It depends on the community. It's not always required to have a separate electrical [00:46:00] hookup, like a 30 amp or 50 amp. In some cases you can run directly like extension cord style from the main house.Go cold. You want to, Kol Peterson: Yeah, I'll speak to the utility connection protocols in Portland briefly. Number one, you do not have to have a parking pad at all. You could put it. Grass grass. I wouldn't recommend that recommend hard tap gravel or concrete, but you could do it on grass. You do not have to have plumbing, connections if there's no internal plumbing within the tiny house on wheels or RV. But if there is internal plumbing, then you do have to have a hose connection, which could be the primary house or a dedicated hose bib. For sewer, you would have to do it, a sewer clean out that it is compliant with however they're going to spec out the regulations for that, probably just a clean-out or perhaps a proper RV sewer cleanout.And then you do have to have a dedicated circuit, 30 amp or 50 amp circuit for the mobile dwelling. Kelcy King: Practically speaking, how do you prepare the electric and water [00:47:00] sewer and hookups for a tiny home? Alexis Stephens: Well, I think we discovered a little bit of that. You know, typically a tiny house is going to be like 30 amp or 50 amp.And so I mean, that's, that's very typical. They'll have a water inlet a lot like an RV. So it's really, I dunno, that's about it on that. Yeah. Kol Peterson: Part of the elegance of this is it's so easy and so inexpensive to do the setup for these types of homes. It's going to be, you know, roughly $10,000 to get up, to get the infrastructure and parking pad put in.So again, this is like vastly less expensive than an ADU.. And, and what I'm telling people in Portland now that it's legal is when you're putting in an ADU , you put in a parking pad or put in the connections for water, sewer, and electrical connection for an RV/tiny house. You don't have to use it. It's going to cost almost nothing. And then you can have an ADU and a tiny house on wheels if, and when you want it, but you don't have to put the tiny house on wheels there ever, if you don't want to, because [00:48:00] it's just, it's a marginal cost addition to that type of infrastructural improvement to your property.Kelcy King: Could it be helpful in extending uptake of movable tiny houses to develop ways to make them attachable detachable to foundation? Alexis Stephens: Yes. And that's something that has been explored and you know, is interesting thing. I think it could really be, I mean, you can make it complicated or you can make a really simple, a really simple way I'd say is like, if you had a pad and you had tie downs and then you skirted it and I mean, that's as simple as you can get, you could get more complicated where you're taking off the axles and that sort of thing, but kind of like why.But that is something I, a lot of folks have, have explored to, to overcome that. And it does make a lot of sense if you built to appendix Q standards from the trailer up and you can have affix to some kind of foundation system, it'd be great if they, if a community accepted a mobile home foundation system. Cause that would also keep it very simple. [00:49:00] Kol Peterson: I baulk a little bit at,at tying to concrete pads in that at least in Portland, like there, we don't have hurricanes tornadoes, like, do we really need to do that? I've never seen a need for that. Do you actually think there's a need for that or is that just a way to comply with IRC essentially?Alexis Stephens: I think that's just a comply. It's like a, it's a thing it's like, sure. You want that? Sure. You know, there's a tiny community and North Texas, they have tie-downs because it's high winds in tornado alley, you know, of course you're not going to survive a tornado, but the high winds that come sweeping through there, it makes sense for them.Otherwise it doesn't make a lot of sense in that the trailer the axles and the wheels, you know, are meant to, to hold the weight actually quite nice. When there's a little bit of, of, of wind, you know, it's very sturdy. You don't feel like you're in a boat or anything, but I'm willing to make little compromises to, to make it legal in more places. The thing is like we've parked in so many places. We don't worry about being legally permitted permitted. It doesn't mean we don't want [00:50:00] to, but like, we're just okay with the risk, because at the end of the day, it's a neighbor complaints where we currently are all the neighbors like us, we've proven to be responsible and respectful neighbors.And that works for us. Kol Peterson: Yeah. And you know, part of the elegance of the tiny house movement is it's inherently like a flexible way that if you get busted, you can move, you know, like, and that's, that's part of the beauty of this, the way this whole movement Kelcy King: Betsy would like to know where we can link to the Portland code and any progress in tiny home village ordinances, small camps, parks, or urban infill?Kol Peterson: I'll I'll take the first one you take the second one. The tiny house on wheels regulations for the City of Portland have not yet been posted, but they will be posted by August 1st, 2021, which is when they will be legalized. So that's when you can start to find the real regulations that will be enacted on Portland's website.So you'll just have to Google it. Alexis? Alexis Stephens: In regards to villages and developments a couple favorite examples again, Lake [00:51:00] Dallas Tiny Home village- that's just a killer one. Very different would be Tiny Tranquility, which is on the Oregon coast where they use like a campground ordinance. And he weaved a really fine line with those guys is where he had approved that our tiny house was an RV, but then also how to make the case for them being attractive as a community.So really, really odd. He's a lawyer and he's really good. And his name is Josh Palmer - the developer there, and he'd be a great person to talk to. Kelcy King: Any experience with composting toilets permitted in tiny homes rather than sewer or septic hookups? Alexis Stephens: Composting toilets are allowed in very few places. You know, there is an Oregon you can technically, I don't know, not even a tiny house it's complicated. I think more likely is if you really want one, like you feel passionate about it is that you just have to plumb it and then switch it out. Or go under the radar. How do landlord tenant enforcement situations come into play or also, are there a two-part question? So [00:52:00] we'll, let's start there and then we'll come back to that one. Well, that's a tricky one. If it's an under the radar situation, like so many of us, they, they don't it's just an informal agreement and I think it'd be very hard to have anything legally binding, but you know what, I haven't really explored that topic too much in places where it has been allowed officially and that I would love to Kol, do you have anything on that? Kol Peterson: It's an extremely interesting and complicated question. So I, I think landlord tenant law is going to apply in Portland. But I am not certain how all that's going to play out. I think it's going to be a really interesting process as we go through the formal codification of legalization of mobile dwellings on residential properties. I think it's going to open up a whole new set of questions about that particular issue, because the owner of the residential property might not own the tiny house on wheels. Right? And so are they, you know, so who's, who's responsible for [00:53:00] a roof issue that causes mold in the walls or whatever. Well, it's obviously not the owner of the property if they're not on the tiny house. So anyway, I don't know the answer to that question yet, but it will be litigated over time I'm sure. .Kelcy King: And then last question, are people using any tiny house models for people with disabilities? You know?Alexis Stephens: Yes. Typically more foundation-based is used for that though. I have seen a couple interesting proof of concepts on a movable chassis for that involving ramps and typically a wider, tiny house.But there's some really great non-profit groups, including some habitat for humanity affiliates in this great group in North Carolina, Tiny Houses on Penny Lane is the name of their village. I can't remember the nonprofit name, but they're specifically developing a proof of concept village for tiny homes for people with disabilities.Kol Peterson: I just want to mention that we have a tiny house on wheels that is built to ADA's actual ADA standards. [00:54:00] So it's been done because we did it. 10 feet wide.Kelcy King: What type of vehicle is needed to move a tiny house? Alexis Stephens: Typically, you're going to need a half ton or one ton truck pickup truck. We tow, we through our partnership with U haul. We towed our house for many years with a U- Haul box truck. And it's a great option.If your house is 10,000 pounds or under and bumper pool, I'd like to share that because I think in this day and age of, of fires being so common that if you needed something in a pinch and you don't own a truck, because remember most people don't move. So they hire a professional or typically to do it.But if you're stuck in a situation, you don't know anyone with a pickup truck, U Haul could be an option. If you're not a gooseneck. [00:55:00]

C'est parti pour un nouveau portrait en duo ! Dans cet épisode, j'ai cédé mon micro afin de pouvoir enregistrer ensemble Mylène et Thibaut. Ce n'est ni dans une tiny house, ni dans une forêt que je les ai rejoints, mais bien dans une zone résidentielle en banlieue de Chambéry. Car après deux ans et demi de vie en micro-maison sur roues, ils ont décidé de réemménager dans un appartement conventionnel.  Le prochain épisode examinera sans filtre toutes les raisons de ce choix, mais pour l'instant, on va se concentrer sur le chemin de Mylène et Thibaut. « Chemin » au sens figuré, tout d'abord parce qu'ils retraceront les différentes étapes de leur projet, du plaisir de se projeter jusqu'à la découverte du terrain parfait, en passant par les travaux d'aménagement de leur cocon. Mais aussi « chemin » au sens propre, parce qu'ils nous raconteront le permis remorque et l'odyssée mémorable du transport de la maison dans les Alpes. Bonne écoute ! ___ Ressources en lien avec l'épisode : Ici visite de la tiny house de Jay Shafer La série américaine Tiny House Nation est disponible sur Netflix depuis plusieurs années maintenant. Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

My guest today needs no introduction, but for the uninitiated, Jay Shafer is largely credited with sparking the modern tiny house movement when he built a little house on wheels and launched the Tumbleweed Tiny House Company about 20 years ago. In this interview, Jay will fill us in on what he's been up to lately, riff on the sad state of housing policy, and talk about his latest home: a super lightweight tiny house on wheels that weighs less than 2,000 lbs and cost about $5,000 to build. The post The Past, Present and Future of Tiny Homes with Jay Shafer – #120 appeared first on The Tiny House.

Jay Shafer (@fourlightshouse) is best known as the pioneer of the tiny house movement. He’s the author of the Small House Book and the founder of Four Lights Tiny House Company. His work has been featured on Oprah, The New York Times, The New Yorker and beyond. Jay and I discuss his early influences, the role art plays in his design, what constitutes good design and how he wouldn’t have started living in tiny houses if it weren’t illegal. This leads us to touch upon the social and political aspects of tiny houses in our communities, as well as Jay’s latest project - Tiny Houses for Humanity.

In what is no doubt his most revealing interview to date, Jay Shafer reminds us once again that the tiny house movement is ”not just about the house”. Listen in as Jay waxes poetic about attending art school, civil disobedience, truth, depression, nature, homelessness, money, love, beauty, business and how he fit his entire life into 120 square feet. Like so many of us, his life didn’t follow his expected path. Now, this self-taught icon in the tiny house movement finds himself challenged by his own limitations and facing the dichotomy of his driving desire to promote his newest designs. So, what’s in those mysterious zip lock bags? We’re not telling….

Jay Shafer from Four Lights Tiny House Company gives us the lowdown of tiny house living. He explains why he initially made the choice, how different life has been since and why he has never looked back. Jay also shares practical advice of what you need to know and do in order to transition to a smaller house.

Jay Shafer of Four Lights Houses and author of The Small House Book discusses the "tiny house" movement.