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Country located primarily in North America

  • 967PODCASTS
  • 2,230EPISODES
  • 42mAVG DURATION
  • 1DAILY NEW EPISODE
  • Nov 29, 2021LATEST
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Latest podcast episodes about u s

Barbarian Noetics with Conan Tanner
Strategy of Tension: Counter-Revolutionary Psychological War (Gladio, Condor, etc.)

Barbarian Noetics with Conan Tanner

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 29, 2021 85:23


What's up to my surreptitious servals and surly-pincered stag beetles! Welcome back to the BNP and thank you for joining! To my patrons: y'all are the sand bar in my cabana cove and the dichotomy in my yin-yang unified field! This episode is a solo mission, and in addition to some zany audio tidbits I also have a subtly seasoned veggie dish for you. The topic? Strategy of Tension. What is it, what are its consequences and why should you care? I argue we should care quite a lot actually because no genuine re-distributive societal shift will be allowed to occur unless we can identify and neutralize this counter-revolutionary tactic. Ok so what is it? When right wing forces of reaction instigate chaos or even carry out acts of terrorism against their own people, with the express intent of blaming the violence and chaos on left wing political movements, this is what's referred to as the Strategy of Tension. Put another way: "The strategy of tension is a tactic that aims to divide, manipulate, and control public opinion using fear, propaganda, disinformation, psychological warfare, agents provocateurs, and false flag actions.The strategy of tension has been utilized by right wing forces of reaction many times, and these programs are matters of historical record. I'm going to get into more details in the episode but just a few examples are Operation Gladio in Italy, Turkey and W. Europe after WW2. Gladio was a U.S. and NATO backed campaign of false flag terror, deployed to sabotage left-wing political movements at a time when the European Communist & Socialist parties were crazy strong and popular, the Communists having been key warriors in the battle against Italian and German fascism. Another example of Strategy of Tension is Operation Condor, a U.S. backed campaign of political repression and state terror involving intelligence operations and assassination of opponents, officially implemented in 1975 by the right-wing dictatorships of the Southern Cone of South America. The program served to derail and uproot grassroots opposition movements which sought to reverse the brutal neoliberal economic policies of the previous era. Help the BNP stay on the air and help me afford groceries! For as little as $1/month or as much as $50/month, you can become a part of the elevation of the human spirit. Go to www.patreon.com/noetics to sign up!Can haz followers? Check out my spruced up IG at new handle: barbarian_noeticsDon't forget to rate, review and subscribe, and thank you for spreading the word and telling a friend about the BNP! One Love,ConanTRACKLIST FOR THIS EPISODE Dykotomi - Corvid Crunk Aretha Franklin - Freeway of LoveMegan Thee Stallion - Eat It Baba Zulu - CecomCurtis Mayfield - No Thing On Me Immortal Technique - 4th BranchCurtis Mayfield - Power for the PeopleYellow Magic Orchestra - InsomniaMick Jenkins, Noname, Dally Auston, Saba - Realer than Most Rebel Diaz - Historias VerdaderasVIDEO: http://metanoia-films.org/counter-intelligence/LINKS & SOURCES:https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Strategy_of_tensionhttp://www.truthmove.org/content/operation-gladio/http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/chile/operation-condor.htmSupport the show (http://www.patreon.com/noetics)

[Abridged] Presidential Histories
23.A.) How Benjamin Harrison won his way to defeat, an interview with Charles Calhoun

[Abridged] Presidential Histories

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 29, 2021 54:07


Is it possible to win your way to defeat? Benjamin Harrison and the 51st Congress might say so. After passing almost all the legislation they had campaigned on in 1889, American voters dealt them crippling defeats in 1891 and 1893. What went wrong?Join me as I interview Charles Calhoun, a retired distinguished professor of History at East Carolina University, a past president of the Society for Historians of the Gilded Age and Progressive Era, and the author of Benjamin Harrison, on how Benjamin Harrison and the Republican Party won their way to defeat.Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/AbridgedPresidentialHistories)

The Steve Gruber Show
Steve Gruber, The collapse of the economy is only getting started. as the Biden Administration begins to drown in its ever expanding failures

The Steve Gruber Show

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 24, 2021 11:00


Live from the no panic zone—I'm Steve Gruber—I am America's Voice—God Bless America this is the Steve Gruber Show—FIERCE AND FEARLESS – in Pursuit of the truth—   Here are 3 big things you need to know right now—   ONE—  Could chewing gum be the answer to stop the spread of Covid and end the pandemic—well—it just might be—   TWO— Nancy has a new palace—and I mean palace—now that she has helped destroy California—she wants some real leadership in her rapidly approaching retirement—so she wants Ron as her Governor—   THREE— The collapse of the economy is only getting started—as the Biden Administration begins to drown in its ever expanding failures—   The New Energy Crisis will dwarf the 1970's and is being driven by the reckless and out of control spending driven by the Green New Deal—   The Socialist Democrats do not care if they bankrupt the country—seriously—Nancy Pelosi just bought a $25 Million dollar 11,000 square foot mansion in Florida—what does she care if you cannot fill up your care or pay your heat bill? That ain't her problem—   But the American people are about to set a record for the biggest swing in U-S history—tossing out Democrat and rewarding Republicans with 80 seats in the house—and at least 6 seats in the Senate—and it could be more—   Why—well let me count the ways—   Lets begin with what completely out of touch sounds like—from the President and all the clowns in the car—  

[Abridged] Presidential Histories
23.) Benjamin Harrison 1889-1893

[Abridged] Presidential Histories

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 22, 2021 49:22


When it comes to politicians, promises made + promises kept is supposed to = reelection, right? For Benjamin Harrison and the 51st GOP Congress, this common sense equation failed in a major way. After passing more legislation than almost any Congress in U.S. history, Harrison and the GOP majority were sent packing in one of the most lopsided congressional wipeouts ever. Why?Follow along as Harrison serves in the Civil War, enters politics, wins the White House, and passes a raft of major legislation - some of which we still live under today - only for the voters to reward him by punching his pink slip. Oh, and he'll acquire the country's first overseas territory, too. Imperialism, here we come!Bibliography1. Benjamin Harrison – Charles W. Calhoun2. Grover Cleveland – Henry F. Graff3. The President and the Assassin: McKinley, Terror, and Empire at the Dawn of the American Century – Scott Miller4. T.R. the last Romantic – H.R. BrandsSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/AbridgedPresidentialHistories)

Craig Peterson's Tech Talk
Do You Think There's Nothing You Can Do to Keep the Bad Guys Out?

Craig Peterson's Tech Talk

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 19, 2021 53:45


Do You Think There's Nothing You Can Do to Keep the Bad Guys Out? What a week. The FBI got hacked. Homeland security supposedly is sending out emails about hackers in your network. This is what we're going to talk about to start with today. What are these new emails, and how are they trying to con you? [Automated Transcript Follows] This is a little bit concerning. We know that the FBI's email system got hacked. And for everyone sitting there saying, well, gee, if the FBI gets hacked, there's no way my business can survive an attack. Remember that the FBI is a huge, huge target. They have so many systems, so many people, and the bad guys really, really would love to send an email out as though they are the FBI. [00:00:49] And, they did, they used, they used the FBI's email servers to send out some of these fake emails. I thought that was kind of funny, but be that as it may, the FBI closed. But there are things you can do to protect yourself, to protect your email. And my wife and I have been working diligently on a guide. [00:01:13] Now, you know that I protect businesses. I work closely with the FBI, been doing cyber security for more than 30 years. I kind of hate to admit it. But, uh, you know, you know, I've been on the internet for more than 40 years. So I've been at this for a very, very long time and there are things you can do. So we're making available a guide. [00:01:38] So she's taken a lot of my teachings and is boiled it down. It looks like it's going to be 25 ish pages. And it's just the essential things, the primary things that you can do. To stop your email from getting hacked, your bank accounts, et cetera. There are some pretty simple things you can do. So we're putting that together, and we're also putting together a Bootcamp and both of these are free. [00:02:07] Okay. Absolutely free. And in the bootcamp, again, this book isn't about selling you all of the, my services and stuff. It's giving you. Actionable things you can do. Yes, you can do. You don't need to be the FBI or a cybersecurity expert to do them, but five things you can do that will, I don't know, 10 X, your cybersecurity, really? [00:02:35] It it's, it's that big a deal. And it's going to take you less than an hour to do all of this stuff. So for those people who like the boot camp, so we're going to have. And, uh, you know, one of these zoom things and we're going to do it live and I'm going to explain it to you, spleen it. And you're going to have some homework before the bootcamp, because I want you to have some skin in the game too. [00:03:02] Right. You're not paying me or anything. So I want to make sure that you've done your homework so we can quickly. Go through all of the stuff that we need to cover in the boot camp and people who are interested in kind of being the example, which means they are going to get more information than anybody else. [00:03:21] You can also say, Hey, listen, uh, yeah, please use mine as an example. So we'll look at all of these different things. We're going to focus in on that first bootcamp primarily on. The stuff with passwords, you know, what should you do? How should you do it? How can you tell if your password has been stolen? If your email accounts been compromised, all of that sort of thing. [00:03:44] And you need to be on my email list in order to find out about this stuff. Right. And in fact, when you sign. I've got three special reports that Karen and I wrote that are really going to be helpful for you. These are three that we've been using with our clients for years, but again, actionable. To do right, is not some marketing sales guy trying to sell you the latest, greatest piece of antivirus software that doesn't work. [00:04:18] So you can get that. If you go to Craig peterson.com right now slash subscribe. If you want the deep link, Craig peterson.com/subscribe. We'll go ahead and sign you up. I have a little automated sequence. It's going to send you the emails with all of the attachments. We got one, that's kind of an introduction to Karen and I, you get to see both of us. [00:04:44] And, uh, it's a really cool picture of when we're on vacation one time and you can get all of that again. It's free. This is the free newsletter. This isn't the paid newsletter. Craig peterson.com. Slash subscribe. All right. So I can help you out with all of that free content. And I have lots of it. I'm on the radio every week talking about free, right. [00:05:08] And you can avoid these things. So like, I kind of hate to bring up this FBI hack because as I discussed again with Karen this week, I, I don't want people to feel like there's nothing that they can do. I have a friend, her name's Laura and she's in one of my mastermind groups. And Laura is, was listening to me because another mastermind member got hacked and it had like, what was it? [00:05:36] $45,000 ultimately stolen from him. And we helped them out. And so I was explaining, okay, so here's the things you can do. And. Basically all she heard was, uh, I'm never going to be able to do this. And, and she's a technical person. She teaches people how to become business analysts, which is pretty technical, right. [00:06:00] There's a lot of steps involved in doing business and analyst work. And so I was really surprised to hear from her that she had. The securing herself was just too hard. You know, the FBI gets hacked, et cetera. And so that's why when I came to this realization, the bottom line is, yeah. Okay. It can be hard if you're like me and you've been in doing this for 30 years, you've got the curse of knowledge, right? [00:06:30] So you, you know, all of this stuff, this isn't for you. If, if you know everything, okay, this is for people who. Quite understand what's going on. Definitely don't understand what they should do. Don't know what they should buy. They don't know how to use the free stuff that Microsoft and apple give you and how to pull it all together. [00:06:52] That's what I want you to be able to understand, and we spend time every. Going through this and every newsletter. I have a, an opening now that is a lot about three to five minute read. If that it can be very, very quick read and is helping you to understand some of the things that you can and should do. [00:07:16] So you'll get that as part of the newsletter. Again, Craig peterson.com. That's in my free newsletter. You should see the paid newsletter. Uh, it's a big deal because it's your life. It's a big deal because it's your business. It's a big deal because it's your job on the line. And most of the time, and when I pick up a new client, it's somebody who's kind of the office manager. [00:07:42] Well, frankly, more than your office manager, sometimes the business owner, you know, owner operator says to the office manager, Hey, we got to do something about cybersecurity and then I get. Saying, Hey, can you do a cyber health assessment for us and that cyber health assessment, which we'll do for almost anybody out there will tell you the basic self. [00:08:05] Okay. Here's what you got to do. You've got to update this. You should turn off this software or you should do this and that with your firewall so that they have. I a little checklist, right. That they can run through. That's the whole idea behind one of these cyber health assessment. And then what happens is they say, okay, well, let's, let's talk some more and we go in and talk with them, talk with the owner. [00:08:32] Do they want to do, help them put together a more detailed plan and then they are off and running so they can do it themselves. They can hire someone, they can have us do it for them, whatever seems to make the most sense, but it's very important. To do it, to do something because sitting there trusting the Google's going to take care of you or apple or whomever, it is, uh, you know, trusting Norton antivirus is going to take care of. [00:09:04] I was reading a quote from John McAfee. He's the guy that started the whole antivirus industry. Now, of course, he passed away not too long ago, under suspicious circumstances, but he came out and said, Hey, listen, antivirus is. Because right now this year, these weren't his stats. These are stats published. [00:09:24] You can find them online. Just duck, duck, go them. Yeah. I don't use Google for most things. Uh, and you'll find that the antivirus is ineffective 77, 0% of the time. So, what do you need to do? Well, you need to listen to me here because I am going to help keep you up to date here. Some people are auditory listeners. [00:09:46] You need to make sure that you get the newsletter so that you get the weekly updates and you find out about these free trainings and special reports that we put together. Makes sense to you and you can attend the boot camps where we cover the basically one hour meetings on zoom, just like you're used to, and we cover one or more specific topics and we do it live and we use your information. [00:10:17] The information you want us to have a, do you want us to share? So how could that be better? And it's the same sort of stuff, but deeper dives and more interactive obviously than radio. And you can listen to me here every week. I think it's important that you do, and you understand this stuff. So anyways, ramble, ramble. [00:10:37] It all starts with email. How do you keep your emails safe? You might remember years ago, you, people were getting broken into and emails were sent out using their accounts. Well, that happened decades ago and it's still happening today. So. Right now, Craig peterson.com. I promise you. I am not a heavy marketer. [00:11:01] Okay. You're going to get good, actionable information that you can put to use in a matter of minutes, Craig peterson.com/subscribe. [00:11:13] Our intelligence monitoring indicates exfiltration of several of your virtualized clusters in a fist sophisticated chain attack. Your, I am trying to put on this like official voice. Right. And it didn't do so well anyways, that's what we're going to talk about, right now. [00:11:29] This is an email that came from the department of Homeland security warning about hackers in our network. [00:11:37] Okay. The subject line here, the one I'm looking at, and this is a, the justice week urgent threat. In systems read the email goes on. We tried to black hole, the transit nodes used by this advanced persistent threat actor. However, there is a huge chance you will modify as attack with fast flux technologies. [00:12:01] I don't know if that ties into a flux capacitor or not, which he proxies through. Uh, multiple global accelerators. So this is somebody who doesn't really know what they're talking about. They're just throwing up big words. We identified the threat actor to be. Somebody whom is believed to be in of course, whom wrong usage of the word here, uh, is believed to be affiliated with the extortion gang, the dark overlord, comma, uppercase. [00:12:33] We highly recommend you to check your systems and IDs monitoring. Be where this threat actor is currently working under the inspection of the MCC. I see, as we are dependent on some of his intelligence research, we cannot interfere physically within four hours, which could be enough time to cause severe damage to your infrastructure. [00:12:59] Stay safe. USDA department of Homeland security, cyber threat detection and analysis network analysis. Total control panel. So this is classic when it comes to scammers. And the classic part is that you could do. Is the grammars bad. The wording is confusing, his punctuation is wrong and he's throwing out all whole bunch of words that are used when it comes to hackers. [00:13:35] You know, there are things like advanced, persistent threats. That's one of the biggest problems in fact, businesses have today. But in reality, the way he used it, Incorrect now that's something I would notice cause I've been doing this stuff for more than 30 years, but the average person is never going to notice something like this. [00:13:59] So it's been pretty, in fact, pretty successful now, a little different than usual here. These fake messages don't have attachments. They don't have phone numbers. They don't have web links. Therefore what? Well, your email filter is not going to look at them and say, oh, these look risky. These URL links are going to risky sites. [00:14:26] I'm going to block it. Right. That's what we do. We have the advanced email filtering from Cisco that we use for our client, or that includes their amazing artificial intelligence for phishing and stuff. So an email like this is not go. To trigger those types of alarms. So they're saying don't panic, avoid contacting the FBI for further details and ignore the accusations that are made in the email. [00:14:55] This is so focused though. So is a cybersecurity company. They have, they have a lot of stuff. They have some pretty good stuff. It's not, um, there's not. But spam house is tracking it. Now, if you've ever been blacklisted, it's called black Coleen really by people who might've used your domain to send spam, or maybe you're a spammer, you've heard of spam house and I've been blacklisted before inappropriately. [00:15:25] The good news is my. That I use for emailing is about 30 years old as well. So it's got a pretty good reputation over the years, but spam house is saying now that this is a scam they've been tracking it. It's a well-known scam and it's been widely circulated. To those office managers that I said are often the people who call us when there's a cybersecurity problem, or we get calls from office managers when something doesn't look right with the emails. [00:16:01] And we have a client that had been getting these weird emails and. We were called saying, what's going on, have a look. We looked and we found all kinds of problems. Right? So that again, an office manager approaching us and thinking everything's fine because they had Norton and they had the more advanced Symantec stuff and it didn't catch. [00:16:27] Any of this really nasty stuff, but that's part of what Spamhaus does. And they're looking at it and saying, oh, okay, wait a minute. Now we're seeing these emails come out. They are definitely not coming from, uh, fbi.gov, which is what the return address is. And so spam house tags, it spam. Assassin's going to tag it and, and it's not even going to make it. [00:16:56] Anything, but a log on are our email filter. So a number of people have received it. If you've received this email, I'd love to know it because they really are trying to go after the people who are a little bit more into this now, how do they find them? Apparently? They have stolen the email addresses by scraping them from public sources. [00:17:22] So databases, uh, published by Aaron, for instance, the American registry for internet numbers. And I'm assigned my own number is CP 2 0 5 because I was so early on by Aaron they're the guys that have been managing. The basic internet domain stuff here in the U S for very long time. And it also doesn't mean by the way that Aaron had any sort of a breach. [00:17:47] And really just showing that the crooks behind this disinformation campaign have really been focusing on people who appear to be in network administration, because those are the email addresses and names that Aaron is going to have. So why are they doing this? Why are they sending it out into it's frankly, it's kinda hard to tell some of the emails have a QR code in them. [00:18:18] Now that is intriguing because here's how, again, how a lot of these basic email filters work, they look at it, they say, well, what links are in there? How many links, how much of the email is a graphic? And they understand while it's going to internet bad guys.com. There's the link right there. Forget about it. [00:18:42] I'm not going to forward this email to the intended recipient, but if there's a QR code in that email to almost every email filter out through. It only looks like a graphic. So might've been a picture of your mother as far as it knows. Most of them are not very smart. So w you getting an email, having a QR code in it and saying, oh, that's kind of interesting. [00:19:07] Let's check out that QR code. That's where the hazard com. All right. So be very, very careful fake news like this. It's not only unfair to the people who are accused in it, which is what happened here. There can be accusing your own it department. They can be accusing. People within your department, which is typically what's happening and then what they may try and do now that you don't trust your, it people, your security people, because they're mentioned by name in the email, but remember their names are probably scraped off of. [00:19:47] That you don't trust them. And now they attack you and you don't trust that you've been attacked. Right? So fake news, a term coined by Hillary Clinton during her campaign, but that's exactly what it is entirely fake. So this email, if you get one from Homeland security about threat actors in your systems, almost certain. [00:20:12] Fake fake, fake, fake stick around. We've got a lot more coming up. Don't forget to subscribe. Get my weekly newsletter. I'm going to be published and even more, I think probably starting next month. I'm going to be sending a couple emails out a week because I got to get you guys up to speed so that you're ready for the upcoming bootcamp. [00:20:35] Everybody knows about the chip shortage, right? Uh, computer chips. They're just hard to find. I'm hearing all kinds of ads from Dell lately on the radio. And they're saying just buy now. Well, they're not selling new high-end machines anymore. The white house. This is a story from the verge has allegedly kinda stepped in about Intel's plans to increase chip production. [00:21:04] And you'd think that the white house would be encouraging chip production. Considering the shortages, the justice week, it came out Tesla hasn't been delivering their electric cars. Without USB ports. Other manufacturers are no longer providing you with an electric window for your car. It's a crank window. [00:21:28] Car manufacturers did it to themselves, frankly, by stopping orders for chips during the lockdown, thinking that somehow people wouldn't need cars anymore. And yet their sales of cars went up and when they go. Yeah. Guess what happens to the price? The price goes up, right? Inflation. You have more money chasing fewer goods. [00:21:52] So they really nailed themselves. Don't feel so sorry for some of these car manufacturers. We need more chips. I mentioned one of the manufacturers of PCs, the many of us use in our offices and, and Jews in our homes. Dell is a good company. They have been for a long time. However, you gotta be careful when you're buying computers because Dell makes very low end computers all the way up through good solid servers. [00:22:22] Same. Thing's true with. P Hewlett, Packard, excuse me, Hewlett Packard. Remember those guys back in the day? Yeah. They also make everything from cheap computers that you never would buy should not buy all the way up through really good ones. It's kind of like going to Walmart, you go to the Walmart and you don't want to buy any of the computer sitting there with one exception. [00:22:48] And that is the Chromebook. If you buy a mid tier Chromebook at Walmart, you're going to get a good little computer. Doesn't run windows, doesn't run Microsoft office word, et cetera, but it can still edit those documents. And it's a very good machine that is kept up to date. Just watch the price $110 Chromebook, probably isn't going to last. [00:23:12] It doesn't have much storage on it, et cetera. A $2,000 Chromebook is probably major overhead. So go somewhere in the $400 $500 range for a Chromebook, which is by the way where they're selling some of the laptops, windows, laptops, same price point. I, again, that's why I just wouldn't buy any of that. So we need more chips. [00:23:37] We need higher end chips. They are very hard to get our hands on right now. We're talking about electrification of everything. And if you've heard me on the radio during morning drive time, you know, I've been just bemoaning how the government's putting the horse before the. They're out there saying electric, electric, electric, and shutting down pipelines and coal mining and coal power plants. [00:24:04] Although coal is one of the cleanest energy sources nowadays because of all of the scrubbing that's going on with the output of the coal plant. And also of course, they're, they've been stomping. Most of the nuclear plants from coming online, even though the new. Technology in nuclear is impossible to fail. [00:24:26] They use basic physics to make sure that these things aren't going to do a Jane Fonda, a China's syndrome thing. Okay. So it's just crazy. We don't have the electrical. Even if we put up, it would take literally millions of wind farm, our turbines, and obviously millions of rooms and fields covered with solar cells. [00:24:54] We would still need nuclear. We would still need other sources of power because the sun doesn't shine all the time and the wind doesn't blow all of the time. This is just completely backwards. People aren't thinking it through. It's again, it's the knee jerk. And of course they're investing heavily. They being the Congress, people of themselves, particularly those Congress people like the Al Gore's of the world and Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, because they are forcing a move to this technology that isn't ready for prime time. [00:25:31] And at the same time, we are trying to buy electric cars. How are we going to charge them? How are we going to run our homes? It's like Europe, people froze to death last winter in Europe. It's going to happen again this year. And the thing about what happened in Texas last year. Yes. Some of that was because they weren't prepared, but guess what else happens? [00:25:55] Sometimes the wind isn't blowing in Texas. So there's, there's just all kinds of problems. So Intel is saying, well, we got to increase our chip production. Intel's main business right now, by the way, seems to be moving towards making chips on behalf of other people, other companies, rather than making their own chips. [00:26:20] Isn't that kind of interesting. And the industry, the chip fab industry, the ones that fabricate the chips, make the chips are spending about $2 billion a week. According to the latest numbers I saw to try and expand the manufactured. Well, apparently Intel went to the white house because they want some of our tax dollars. [00:26:44] You know, the money they'd take at the point of a gun. They want some of that so that they can build their business, build it back better. And apparently some sources close to the situation told Bloomberg that Intel. Posed making silicone wafers in a Chinese factory, which could start production towards the end of next year. [00:27:12] But in a move that I agree with had the Biden white house, apparently Intel was strongly discouraged due to potential security issues. Yeah, no kidding. Some major security issues here. We don't want to give away our technology to make this leading edge stuff. Think about the U S. We were always the country that people came to for technology. [00:27:43] I mentioned this week on the radio, the cotton gin way back when look at how much labor. That, uh, that cut look at the internal combustion engine. And again, the Teamsters, the horses, the cleanup crews in New York city. Right. All of that went goodbye pretty much because of technology and people got higher technology. [00:28:10] Jobs and everyone became more efficient and that's, what's supposed to happen right now when right now based basically we have stagflation in other words, prices are going up, but we're not getting any more productivity out of it. That's a real problem. And that's why they keep talking about the problems we were having in the late seventies. [00:28:31] And I remember those well, I remember gas lines sitting there in California waiting to buy gas. It was incredible what was happening out there. So Intel thinks it needs to secure funding from the federal government in order to ramp up the production. Bloomberg announced, Orwell said that Intel currently has no plans to produce silicone wafers in China after discussing it with governor. [00:29:01] Officials and it will instead consider other solutions. Now I hope those other solutions are to make those plants, those chip fab plant here in the United States. Let's put ourselves back on a leading edge footing here. Google moved its artificial intelligence lab to China talking about. Anti American thing to do moved it to China, artificial intelligence. [00:29:31] That's something we need. The us needs to be the world leader in some of these technologies. And frankly, we're not the leader anymore. It's it frankly, a shame. So you can check this out. It's on the verge. You'll also find it up on my website. Craig peterson.com. Make sure you sign up for the newsletter so you can get all of these little trainings, you know, five minutes a weekend can make a big difference. [00:30:03] Craig peterson.com. [00:30:05] Hey, I don't want to depress anyone, but Bitcoin is now a 13 year old teenager. And back in January, 2009, Bitcoin was priced at well. Wow. [00:30:19] January 3rd, 2009 is when it was launched. And E Bitcoin was priced at you ready for this point? [00:30:30] Zero 8 cents each. Okay. So, uh, the, uh, uh, and because of that, a lot of people. I have been seen, well, you know, we, we've got to get into this and that in fact, Elon Musk has been kind of pushing up the price of another digital currency. All of the initial price increases in Bitcoin were due to fraud. [00:30:57] According to a lot of reports and we can get into those if you'd like fraud. Yeah. That's a great way to launch a whole new product. And they also played some other games. For instance, the biggest driver of Bitcoin price for a long time was crux. For ransomware. Yeah. People had to buy ransom and pay ransoms. [00:31:25] How do you pay a ransom while usually it was with Bitcoin and that meant you had to turn us dollars or other foreign currencies into Bitcoin. And as economists in the white house, don't seem to understand when there is more money tracing, a limited commodity, the price of the commodity goes up, whether it's gasoline, food, or Bitcoin, and that's exactly what happened. [00:31:58] Percentage wise, how much of an increase has there been in the value of Bitcoin? Um, uh, let me see here. You see if I can figure this out 7 billion, 750000000% increase. Isn't that something now of course we don't all have these magical glasses that let us look forward to kind of figure it out. Out, but it's based on this peer to peer electronic cash system that was written about by, uh, someone or a group of people that went by the pseudonym of Natasha Nakamoto. [00:32:42] And there've been a few people over the years who have claimed that they are the person that started it and maybe one of them is, and may be, none of them are who knows, but this was first published, October 31st, 2008. So about a month later is when it started to trade and it is just incredible here. [00:33:04] Bitcoin was really perceived initially. Threat by government and financial institutions. I think it's still perceived as a threat. My government, they are able to track Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies in many cases and the way they track it as well. If you have Bitcoin, what good is it? Unless you can use the Bitcoin to either buy something or to traded for us dollars or another hard currency, that's how they're tracking. [00:33:38] Without getting into a lot of detail here, but it's interesting to look at because the Bitcoin white papers proposing a solution to prevent what they were calling double spending. And when you don't trust a third party necessarily, and that's where we got these logs, if you will, the. Uh, balance sheets that were being used to track everything. [00:34:06] And then you had the voting, you had to have 50% of these systems that were tracking all of the transactions, agree on a transaction, et cetera. And that's actually been a problem for Bitcoin because of the. Intermediaries, you have to go through or get to approve your transaction. It's a, frankly, a problem that's really slowed down transaction. [00:34:34] So you can't just go like with a credit card and pay for something that's done. It can take your day or more. Now it's interesting that we're getting close to the ultimate limit of Bitcoin offerings. The blockchains mind blocked number 707,000. Which by the way, offered a mining reward of six and a quarter Bitcoins. [00:35:01] So think about that. Well, it costs you more to mine, Bitcoins than they're worth. If you're trying to do it in the Northeast. Pretty much anywhere in the United States. So don't just run out and start doing it. My son and I, I don't know, five, eight years ago, something like that, we decided we'd start trying to do some mining and we did, and we didn't find any Bitcoins and it was just cooking some machines. [00:35:28] And so we said, forget about it. And we gave out on it. It does have a hard cap. Then it's got a ways to go. I said, it's approaching. It is, but there's 21 million Bitcoin is the hard cap and the community that maintains the software and maintains Bitcoin because it is a committed. Has it been modifying the rules as time went around at about how many Bitcoin you get when you're mining something, into solving these problems and, and how the blockchain works and how many honest and dishonest mentions were in the original Bitcoin white paper and how can they reject invalid blocks? [00:36:18] So there's a lot of technical stuff going on and it's changing. All of the time. And ultimately it's the consensus mechanism that has been slowing it. So when it costs you more to mine, a Bitcoin than you get for it. So let's do a little bit of math here. If we say that how much is a Bitcoin worth right now? [00:36:42] So we say current value of Bitcoin. I'm typing it in right now. So it's about $57,000. Per Bitcoin. If we say 57,000, uh, here we go. 57,000 times, what did I say? Six and a quarter, right? So $362,000 equivalent is what they, the person who mined this block was paying. That sounds pretty good. Doesn't it? Yeah, it really does. [00:37:17] It adds up quite, quite quickly. But when you consider that it costs more to mine, a Bitcoin than it costs, then you, then you get to paid for it. 350, $6,000. That's a lot of electricity on a lot of hardware. And because of that, China has. Down Bitcoin mining operations, because it uses so much electricity and in the United States and in some other countries, but here in the U S and in the UK, some of these Bitcoin mining operations have been buying. [00:37:54] Coal powered power plants, coal fired power plants so that they can produce their own electricity so they can make it worthwhile to mine. So things are going to change. They're going to be changing the rules. As I said, we've got a total of 21 million Bitcoin ultimately. And so far we've only just mined numbers, 707,540. [00:38:21] So the interchange, the rules, I'm going to keep an eye on this because that's kind of an interesting one. Elon Musk, his quote is Crip. Cryptocurrency is fundamentally aimed at reducing the power of a centralized government. And that by the way, can be one of the main reasons that Bitcoin hasn't been really adopted in the mainstream yet. [00:38:42] And Ilan has all kinds of tweets. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, he says, Bitcoin is my safe word. Isn't that? Something he's been primarily the guy behind Dodge coin, which is yet another crypto currency, D O G. Coyne D O G E coin doge, I guess, coin. And you can find that online. I think it has new doge even publicly traded while it's certainly traded as a crypto. [00:39:12] Okay. So doge coin right now is worth 22 cents. It's down from its month, week, and day highs. I'm looking. Here. Yeah. Yeah. So it's gone up and down. It's been worth more. Yeah. A couple of weeks ago. So that's part of the problem with it. If you don't have money that you can absolutely waste, don't buy this stuff and I'm not an investment advisor, but I've never bought any Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency. [00:39:46] And the problem is, and from my perspective that it is not real at all. Yeah, you can say, look at this, I could have made 7000000% on that. Well, you could do the same thing almost if you had, instead of buying a brand new Tesla model as, uh, you know, eight years ago, seven years ago, and paying $77,000 for that. [00:40:11] If you had bought $77,000 worth of Tesla stock, you'd be in the millions of dollars in value. Right? And so we've got the Raven company out there. I don't know if you know these guys or not. I watched a motorcycle show. They're going from the tip of south America all the way on up to San Diego. And they had this reveal and electric truck, which is really quite cool. [00:40:39] Well, they are public right now. They just won. And they have a market capitalization. In other words, a value of ribbon, which has only made a couple of dozen vehicles. That's it? Total. And they're owned by people who work for the company. Their market capitalization is 50% more. Then most of the major manufacturers out there, it's just crazy how much it is worth and why it's because people are looking at it saying, well, Tesla appreciated 7000000%. [00:41:19] Ravion's going to do the same. And by the way, they are cool cars. I love the idea behind. Uh, you know, electric vehicles. It's just that we got the cart before the horse who don't have the electricity. We're not making the hard decisions. We're just ripping stuff out. It's absolutely crazy. By the way, they had a 15% drop in the value of their shares on Wednesday. [00:41:45] Uh, it'll go up. It'll go down. But it's, uh, w it's something we got to test remember? Okay. Cryptocurrency is not it yet of Tesla. Stock is worth something will probably always be worse. Something cryptocurrency is worth something, but tomorrow may be worth zero, and don't go crazy. These market caps of startup companies that have never done anything being worth 50% more than major us auto manufacturer. [00:42:18] What that's crazy. [00:42:19] Clothing prices have been going up. In fact, apparel prices were up 4.2% in the last 12 months. That's as of August, we've got cotton going up. There's a whole bunch of things that are going up and a company out there called dress X thinks it has a solution for all of these prices. [00:42:40] Everything's been going up, I put some gas in my car the other day. I have a, you might know, of course, a 1980 Mercedes and my wife drives a nice little Ford edge, not a particularly big SUV, kind of a guess a mid-size SUV. And I put, I think it was about 15 gallon Zan and it costs me more. 55, $0. I can't believe it. [00:43:12] We used to have a little diesel little Volkswagen Passat diesel. We would drive around and we were getting pretty close to 60 miles per gallon, around town. And diesel was about a buck, a gallon, and it cost 20 bucks to fill the silly thing up. And we could drive all the way down to New York city and back on. [00:43:31] $20 worth of diesel one fill up. Okay. Uh, none of that's true anymore, is it? And we're looking at some increases. It's not like the kind of increase we've seen in certain foodstuffs or gasoline or eating oil. Apparel prices are up and there there's a company out there that thinks that maybe they have a bit of a solution for you. [00:43:56] It's called dress ex I found a video online of a young lady. Who's got a lot of followers, interesting lady. And she was trying them out. She'd tried a different dress or different clothes every day for a month. No, I did not watch all of the video, but I got the basic idea. And the idea is that people are buying digital clothes. [00:44:25] Now I think of that for a minute. Would you pay for a designer? And maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't pay for designer dress, but you know, already like, and AOC is dress that she wore, you know, the lady of the people, uh, only cost. What, w what is it? $30,000. Per seat for her to go to that banquet. And I think her dress was like five or $6,000. [00:44:53] Well, you can get a dress just like AOC. That's designed by a high-end fashion designer for somewhere between 40 and $60. Okay, but it's a virtual dress. It's not a real dress, not in the real world. It's interesting what they're doing and trying to do. If you have used some of these online sites like Instagram, they have various types of what they call filters. [00:45:21] So you can put a filter on you and there's like a makeup filter, for instance, that makes you look like you're all made up, right. That gets rid of all of the blemishes on. In, and there's other filters that do backgrounds and do different things and make you look like you're a kitty cat or whatever. [00:45:41] They'd all kinds of crazy things. Well, this company called dress ex has now come out with filters that you can use in their app. And they don't work too well right now, but people have been buying these digital close to. Now you don't wear them out. Okay. This is really like the King's new clothes. You might remember that story. [00:46:06] Right. And if all you have on are your digital clothes, you don't have anything on. However, what it does is if you're using their app and you're moving around, uh, and with their app, Paste these clothes on you. And it's a little funky right now. It's not the best, but you can bet that's exactly where it's going. [00:46:32] And it reminds me of a blues, Bruce Willis movie. Can't remember the name of it. And, uh, it's I think really bringing up a whole, a whole type of. Dysphoria that I think people are going to have more and more where you're living in this artificial life and that artificial life that you're in now that's called SIRA gets, I was just looking up as we were talking, uh, that artificial life that you're in is so nice. [00:47:05] You don't want to live. In the real world. And I'm starting to see this now with things like dress X, which you'll find online, address x.com. You can now wear anything you want. You can use the filters that are available generally to change. Parents to change your ethnicity, to change anything you want. [00:47:28] And if you ever saw Sarah gets, it was a very interesting movie. I liked it. I watched it because I generally like Bruce Willis and Rosa Mon pike, who were the two primary actors in this movie. But in the movie, everybody was just sitting there. And they were in these 3d chairs. And while you're in that chair, you could be anybody anywhere doing anything and literally anyone. [00:47:57] And so you're sitting in the chair, you can see around you, it looks real, it feels real everything about it is real, at least for the most part, but in reality, And none of it's real. And these people, they, some of them got out of those chairs and while they were out a nasty things happen to them. In fact, it was, he was a cop and they were, uh, investigating some murders of these people who were again, using what they were calling. [00:48:30] Sarah gets nowadays with what our friends over at face. Or doing, you are going to see it called something else. Uh, Facebook, in case you didn't know Facebook changed its name. Now Facebook, Facebook is still Facebook, but the parent company kind of like Google split kind of off and change the company name, uh, Facebook did the same thing. [00:48:56] They're calling it. And the idea is to have this meta universe where again, just like in surrogates, nothing is real, just like on dress ex you can wear any fashions you want to, and instead of paying thousands of dollars, you pay tens of dollars, basically. Now I mentioned that their video isn't very good. [00:49:21] At least not yet over address X, but you can go to dress X. You can take photos of yourself and send them to dress X. They will go ahead and put whatever clothes you want to be. On you it's basically. Yeah, it's Photoshopping, but they do a pretty good job in general. I looked at a whole bunch of them, but it, uh, you know, it, it looked pretty real. [00:49:48] You don't have to consider the fit. You don't have to worry about how big you are because all of these clothes adjust, infinitely a store. Doesn't have to stock a bunch of them. So we're moving. This whole metaverse idea and these digital clothes, which are really a thing nowadays is vice said, vice.com. [00:50:12] We're moving more and more to this unreal world and some real unreal fashions too. I'm looking at some of them and it's, it's hard to even describe them. It looks like there's all of these. Things growing all over the clothes that are coming out and just doing all kinds of weird things. So there you go. [00:50:36] I'm note on fashion. I'm looking right now at a picture that's right in front of the metropolitan museum of art in New York, and a lady is wearing one of the. Digital dresses. Now they tell you what you should be doing. And when you take that picture is aware of skin tight clothes so that they can match the digital close to you a little bit better. [00:51:01] But, uh, w w we'll see, she's saying that in this project, Tweet at the, in front of the mat, she's saying I just can't wait for the met gala. What it'll look like in 21, 21, because you know what, she's not wrong about this. It's really coined to change. There's some real cool stuff. Go to my website. If you want to see this, you can find it on vice, but I have a link to it. [00:51:24] Just look for this. Show notes and you'll find it right there. In fact, you're getting even search for on my website because I have everything transcribed. Just look for digital clothes because there are thing now. Hey, I also want to talk a little bit here about. The, uh, the next little article, which is what's happening right now with apple. [00:51:48] And you've probably heard about these ID cards in Austria right now, they are stopping people randomly and asking for their papers. They want your papers. If you are, have not been, they call it vaccinated. It's not a vaccine. Really. It's still funny to see the CDC change to the definition of vaccine, just so it meets their jab standards. [00:52:16] But, uh, if you're not vaccinated, there's an immediate, it's about of $3,500 fine that the police officer will issue to you. And of course, there's police everywhere. Just stopping people randomly and asking for their papers. Well, apple is making various us states that have decided they want to use a digital ID card. [00:52:43] For customer support and also for some of the technology. Now, the initial idea behind this, and Apple's been working on it for a while, is that you can have your driver's license in the iPhone wallet, app, more secure. It's certainly more convenient for most people. Sometimes you might forget your wallet, but most people don't forget their iPhones. [00:53:10] Yeah. The feature when combined with Apple's biometric security measures really could also cut down on fraud. So we've got about a half a dozen states right now that have signed up with apple and our pain part of the freight for these things. And when they pull you over and ask for your papers, you'll have them right there in your iPhone. [00:53:32] Isn't that handy stick around. We got more to talk about. Thanks for joining. Today and visit me online. Craig peterson.com. Stick around.

Townhall Review | Conservative Commentary On Today's News
The Authoritarians Know They Only Have a Limited Time While Biden is in Office to Accomplish Their Goals: Hugh Hewitt with Arkansas Senator Tom Cotton

Townhall Review | Conservative Commentary On Today's News

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 18, 2021 13:42


Hugh Hewitt Arkansas Senator Tom Cotton, member of the Senate Armed Services Committee on gas prices, President Biden's meeting with China, Chinese, Russian aggression, and foreign espionage in the U.S. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sub Club
Ron Schneidermann, AllTrails - Growing an App to 1M Paid Subscribers

Sub Club

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 17, 2021 52:00


Our guest today is Ron Schneidermann, CEO at AllTrails, the ultimate guide for outdoor adventures. AllTrails was early to the consumer subscription space, launching a $3/month premium tier way back in 2012. Ron joined as CMO and COO in 2015, and then took over as CEO in 2019, helping to grow AllTrails to over 1 million subscribers and tens of millions of active users worldwide.On the podcast, we talk with Ron about the magic of consumer subscriptions, experimenting with freemium strategies, and how private equity isn't always as bad as you've been led to believe.In this episode, you'll learn: How to refine and optimize your freemium strategy Two things you need to keep an eye on as a founder The pros & cons of outside funding vs. organic growth How Ron fast-tracked AllTrails' profitability Links & Resources Accenture Hotwire Yelp Liftopia Alex Honnold Spectrum Equity Ron Schneidermann's Links Ron Schneidermann's LinkedIn page AllTrails Celebrates 1 Million Paid Subscribers! (January press release) AllTrails' website AllTrails is hiring Follow AllTrails on Twitter Follow us on Twitter: David Barnard Jacob Eiting RevenueCat Sub Club Episode Transcript00:00:00 David:Our guest today is Ron Schneidermann, CEO at AllTrails, the ultimate guide for outdoor adventures, AllTrails was early to the consumer subscription space, launching a $3 per month premium tier, way back in 2012. Ron joined as CMO and COO in 2015, and then took over as CEO in 2019, helping to grow AllTrails to over 1 million subscribers and tens of millions of active users world.On the podcast, we talk with Ron about the magic of consumer subscriptions, experimenting with freemium strategies, and how private equity isn't always as bad as you've been led to believe.Hey, Ron! Welcome to the podcast. 00:00:59 Ron:Thanks for having me.00:01:00 David:Yeah. Really looking forward to the chat today. I wanted to kick it off, and most people know what AllTrails is, and it's a fantastic brand. It kind of tells you what it is right there on the tin. What's your pitch? We're in 2021, post pandemic.Give us the short version of what AllTrails is. What does it mean? 00:01:21 Ron:Yeah. So AllTrails is a free app and website that helps you find trails all over the globe, so you can spend more time enjoying the outdoors, and spending time in nature.00:01:34 David:That's awesome.00:01:35 Jacob:That's a very nice mission. That's way more beautiful than helping developers make more money. Both are important, but I can smell that. It smells, “piney” and I like it.00:01:46 David:Yeah, it smells like the Colorado forest. I haven't been hiking forever, and doing all the research to chat with you today was like, oh man, I need to go hiking more.00:01:55 Ron:I heard there's a great app for that.00:01:57 David:I heard that.So, I did want to also ask about your journey to AllTrails. You got there fairly early, and then grew in, and you're now CEO. Tell me, off the bat, what led you to AllTrails way back in 2015 when it was just six people?00:02:20 Ron:Yeah. To answer that I'm going to go a little bit further back in time. My first job right after college was at Accenture, at a global management consulting firm. It was great. A good jumping off point, and I learned a ton. I didn't know anything going into that job. You know, you get the rubber stamp and it opens doors.By the end of my third year there, I kind of had a realization. Epifany is a little too strong a word, but I just kind kinda realized I can't take a job just for money again. The amount of time and energy that I was putting into it, and the lack of work-life balance, it really made me rethink who I want to be. Who does working Ron want to be?So, I was able to parlay that Accenture job into a biz dev role over at Hotwire, an online travel company. That was really where it opened my eyes. Like, I am so much happier, and I am honestly so much better when I'm working at something that I'm just personally passionate about.That guiding principle has really held through throughout my career trajectory. From Hotwire, I want to do my own startup in the ski space. I love to ski. So, I did that for nine years. It was a ton of fun. Then I was over at Yelp, doing growth for a bit. I love finding non-chain restaurants, and supporting mom and pop businesses, and stuff. I live in Yelp, so that was great.Then, when the opportunity for AllTrails presented itself, it was just kind of a no-brainer. Of course I'm going to take this.I'll say this to you, one little addendum, one of the things I learned along the way, too. I am not a zero to one guy. That is not when I am at my best. It just causes me stress and anxiety, and just, figuring out how to keep the lights on for another day.So, again, knowing kind of that sense of self knowing. Like, alright, I'm best at B to C. I'm at my best when I'm using products I personally want to use and like talking about. I like hypergrowth, and I think that's probably my sweet spot.So, it starts to all align when AllTrials showed up.00:04:34 David:Yeah. And then how did that go from? You joined the company as COO, right? And then, what was the progression inside the company to eventually taking over as CEO?00:04:45 Ron:Yeah. So if you want to demo and COO, I dunno why I really wanted to have both, like, I didn't want to just be CMO in a vacuum, but not have any ownership or agency over kind of team composition and strategy and stuff. So I thought that it was really. Really important. And when you're a six person company, it's pretty easy to grab titles.It's not like how to take it from anyone.00:05:08 Jacob:I was going to ask, like, I mean, it's, it's not like you see this a lot where it's like a six person company and they had like five C-levels and you're like, okay. Yeah, sure. Like, like my title, for example. But like, I'm kind of curious, like, you know, you like your background, you founded a company, like you were like a real CX whatever.Right? Like it's not like it was fake. So how did, how did that, how did you go as like an executive, like choosing your next thing? That'd be a hell of a pitch to get you to like join a tiny little like, team like that.00:05:36 Ron:You know, I think I, I spent a lot of time thinking through again. I don't know, I, to be perfectly honest, I was, I was a little bit bored at the end of my tenure at Yelp. I love Yelp. It's a great company, but it was just, it was too big for me. And so I spent a lot of time thinking through what's next again?That whole question, like zero to one. Do I need, do I need to start something myself or what? So the smallness didn't bother me. I actually really liked the smallness cause it was almost like, it was almost like a cheat code. Like I got to do a startup, like basically from scratch, but I didn't have to do it from scratch.And then.00:06:09 Jacob:They had, they had a kernel of something at00:06:11 Ron:They did, they did. And you know, it was actually to, to give my predecessor credit. It was, it was actually more than that. Like they had, they had solid product market fit from a monetization perspective. And then what really got me across the line with their product channel. And I feel like that's often overlooked and that's something you kind of pick up in time.Like it's not just like, is this a product people are willing to pay money for, but just straight up, how are you going to get this out to market? And can you, can you do it in a way that is, you know, viable and scalable and, and ultimately, you know, going to be, be more efficient than, you know, it's kind of like net out, right?Like the whole LTV to CAC thing and everything that00:06:49 Jacob:Yeah. It's, it's something more efficient than paying for every single install. Right.00:06:53 Ron:Exactly. And so. You know, I, it felt like there was good bones, you know, maybe it was like a fixer upper kind of house. but it had good bones, like it had, it had the foundation in place. And I could see, you know, back in 2015, the product sucked, it sucked. and, and what was shocking after I came was how bad the data was.I didn't realize that when I was kind of doing my own diligence, but it was00:07:20 Jacob:You mean like analytics on the internally, what the company knew about itself or you mean like the, the, the trail00:07:25 Ron:The trail data, like the trail data that we were showing, you know, and that's that's subs high consequence. and so that was like a hard pivot, within a couple months, like, all right, this is, you know, all hands on deck thing.We're not doing anything else until we figure this out. but again, it just, it felt like there was a diamond in the rough, in this one. You know, I've been here six years now and I can say like, unequivocally, this is the highlight of my career. Maybe I just got lucky. I don't know. But, man, like, yeah, this has been a really, really great run so far.00:07:59 Jacob:I was just going to ask about the, that channel and monetization fit. I mean, I guess this was maybe I'm jumping ahead in our agenda here, but, but yeah, they were already charging a subscription before you got there. Right. And in terms of like monetization, maybe like describe that model a little bit and, and how that has changed.00:08:20 Ron:Yeah, I had never done this subscription business before coming here. So this was my first subscription business. And I'll tell you, you guys already know this. I'm sure your listeners already know this too. subscription businesses are magical. Oh my goodness. Compared to like e-commerce or you're trying to re when, you know, the transaction every single00:08:40 Jacob:I know I was looking at Hotwire just now, when you mentioned it. And I was just thinking about like, how many of those there were at that era, right? Like, and still are like, when you had to book a hotel on Google and they're like, oh, here's 15 different sites. You can actually like book it through it's like Wolf,00:08:53 Ron:Oh, so tough. Same with Liftopia. Liftopia the ski startup. There was the same thing. Right. you know, but, but with a much smaller niche and segment, and then, and then Yelp is, you know, they're, they're kind of the media model and then trying to, you know, kind of pivot more towards like B2B and subscriptions for businesses and value added services and stuff.And coming here doing a consumer subscription business, an annual subscription, the auto renew. It's like an annuity, like it just builds up every single year. Like obviously, like you can't take retention for granted and I'm sure we'll talk about that, but you know, just, if you're able to kinda, you know, do a, do a pretty good job on the retention side and you see this thing build up And just.Raise the tide every single year that I've been here and have it just, is that much more momentum that just gets like brought into each new fiscal year for us. It's just, it's incredible. It is incredible. the leverage that it offers. So that was cool. That was definitely a, 00:09:51 Jacob:One of those good bones.00:09:54 David:Yeah. And that's what I was going to ask you say the bones were good. Yeah, AllTrails had launched their subscription in 2012. So about three years before you joined, what was the state of that? And that's really early in the kind of consumer subscription software space. Was there a lot of push back was like, how was traction, chargebacks and things like that was the bones were there, but were there some serious doubts or questions in your mind as to how this subscription app space was going to play out? 00:10:28 Ron:Yeah, I mean, so can I share a secret with you guys? I honestly didn't know that our subscription business loss in 2012, until you guys showed me the research that you did leading up to this, I had always thought that, it launched with our ass. We launched our apps in, I think early 2015, I joined in September, 2018.And I just lumped everything together just in that, you know,00:10:53 Jacob:Yeah. It's yeah,00:10:54 Ron:Yeah. So I, I, I had always thought that it, that we had launched it when our apps launched, but I guess we were on the cutting edge, the bleeding edge, the subscription space here.00:11:05 Jacob:So, so, but that, then I'm, then I'm correct to assume that, you know, if you launched a description 2012 was on the web, if you didn't have apps until 20, 20, 15. Right. Right. Which, I mean, my, my experience, I guess I've been on old trails website, but like my vast majority of experience has been on the web.Right. Because I'm like, or sorry on the, on the phone because I'm going for a hike and I'm like, I need a map and like, boom, there's AllTrails. Right. Which I guess is that channel fit. You're talking about.00:11:27 Ron:Yeah. And that's been, that's been one of the cool things when I started. So a couple, a couple, I guess, data points, just to show like, sort of that, that snapshot in time of 2015, we probably had 20,000. subscribers at that point, maybe a million cumulative registered users since 2010, when we first launched and maybe 20,000 active paying subs.And in January of this year, we put out a press release. We don't normally do that, but it was two pretty cool milestones. We had cracked 25 million registered users and a million paying subs at the start of this. So, you know, again, like the, the, the unlock has been really cool and very, very powerful. but the other thing, like you said, like this was, you know, a web driven subscription business.At first, when I, when I first started here. probably 70% of our, of our web traffic was desktop desktop to mobile 70 30. And obviously that's inverted, since then, and then Mo the, the, the mobile apps, the native apps are by far the best form factor for what we're trying to do. Like you said, Jake would like take it with you on the go, the navigation, the GPS stuff, everything baked in there.And so that's become really the workhorses of, of subscription business and, and of our overall, UDC flat.00:12:42 Jacob:Yeah. I mean, it's so helpful. you guys have good SEO when you search a trail, it comes up on AllTrails. Right. But that's, I would imagine like this stage probably mostly like demand gen for the app,00:12:53 Ron:That's exactly it. No, that's exactly it. Right. So our se our legacy SEO, this is what, again, one of the beauties of being around for 11 years and counting, we have this amazing legacy SEO and that's, that was that product channel fit that brought me here was the sales pitch was he just showed me Google analytics.And he just like, look, look at all of this for your00:13:12 Jacob:Just like a hyper-local very valuable data, right. Index. And if you're, if you're the winner, that's a great real estate to00:13:20 Ron:I know. And, and so what we've been doing obviously as, sort of consumer behavior has changed and gone mobile first is, we're able to parlay all of that mobile first SEO traffic it's, incremental organic app installs, and that's a huge driver. Of our business. We get millions and millions of incremental app installs that we don't pay a dime for every mom's.00:13:42 Jacob:Yeah. And going back to your point, like yeah. Not having to push. Up the hill completely is a bit, you know, you think about a Compounding annuity analogy as you made, right? Like the cost of that compounding really, you know, if you net out the whole asset, right? Like that's going to be a big part of it is like, how much does it cost to push that that, that, that flywheel up a little bit. 00:14:02 Ron:It's a moat for business too, you know, you're around long enough and you're doing something good. You're going to see a ton of competitors start flooding into the space, which is great as validation of what we're doing, but the product market fit product channel fit conundrum is, is real.It's real. And you know, I see really great products, you know, beautifully designed products that just crank can't crack the code on either of those. And then they kind of, you know, whether on the line, right? Like see it all the time.00:14:31 David:No, that was actually my next question is that in those early days, and you already said when you joined and when y'all launched the apps in 2015, they were crap. So take me, how did you go from this crap up and what experimentation, what pain, what suffering did 00:14:53 Jacob:There's some, there's some old, there's some like a old guard at, at all trials that are going to listen to this and be like, crap. They were great.00:15:00 David:But what did it take and what was the approach to, to find you, you had some level of product market fit, but then to actually build a great product around those early signs. 00:15:12 Ron:There, there are a couple of philosophical things that we decided immediately. One was around funding. Do we want to go take funding, and try and do this faster? Do we want to do this kind of organically? And my predecessor had done a small seed round. I think he raised 3 million bucks in 2012.And we were still kind of drafting off of that. And then there was a little bit of subscription revenue and then a whole bunch of just, you know, classic entrepreneur head on the swivel stuff. Like let's throw a bunch of shit up on the wall. Like, let's see what we can do. So there's, you know, a media play and programmatic ads.Whatever, right. Just trying to buy time more than anything. Right? Like keep the servers running for a little bit longer. But we decided we very intentionally decided not to take funding. We wanted to control our own destiny. And part of it to be clear, part of it was the handshake agreement with the original founder, was to grow it and sell it.He wanted us to, to, to sell it. And so, so then if that was kind of the. The Mandy. And I was like, well, why would we even just, you know, deal with the, the opportunity cost and the headache of going out and trying to raise funds, as a pain in the ass. So, you know, it was like, let's just, let's put our heads00:16:22 Jacob:Especially, especially for our consumer subscription company in 2015, like00:16:27 Ron:Right? Yeah.00:16:28 Jacob:Ben kind of been party to that. It's not, it wasn't easy. Let's put it that way.00:16:32 Ron:Tried doing it in 2005, by the way I was with Liftopia was insane anyways. but so we decided to put our heads down and just say super scrappy, super scrappy, super lean. And so, it just came down to like relentless prioritization and essentially what we ended up doing was triaging sort of a different funnel metric each quarter.Right. So one quarter is. We've got to tackle bounce rate. All right. Now we've got to tackle signup rate and now we've got to tackle pro conversion rate. And now we've got to talk over attention and we just kind of spent cycles, through 2016 and through 2017, just each, each quarter, just like laser focus in on that one metric and do what we can and then move.And it worked because by the end of 2017, we actually achieved profitability. Which was cool, which was really, really great. You know, like we wanted again, when you've been around the block long enough, you talked to enough entrepreneurs, you've seen, you've seen enough. there's so many examples of people going and getting too much funding too soon, and then they develop bad habits, right?Yeah. Let's get a little hot in here. Is it.00:17:36 Jacob:I never heard of that.00:17:39 Ron:So, you know, but so you see it right? Like that you, you get the, unsustainable growth channels, again, the product channel fit question, like how are you actually going to bring this to market? And how are you going to do it when that VC money dries up? Like, is this actually00:17:50 Jacob:Five X that VC money, right.00:17:52 Ron:Right? Is this sustainable?Or you're just connecting yourself to the next round of00:17:56 Jacob:You can put yourself in a, in a dead man's corner, right. Where you're not your, market's not big enough, whatever you end up killing and otherwise like really great business,00:18:05 Ron:Totally. And I, you know, I'd seen that, I'd seen that. I really didn't want to do that here. It felt like because so much of our growth was coming through SEO. It felt like obviously there's an opportunity, which we later unlocked on the ASO side of things. It felt like even beyond both of those though, it's just like word of mouth and PR and viral loops and network effects.00:18:27 Jacob:Product market fit as a broad thing, right? Like growth kind of have you have a really good product and it serves a niche, like grit just starts to start to go.00:18:36 Ron:And especially organic growth, right? Like, and that was really the big key as like, do we need to be like one of these DTC companies and just raise millions of dollars for Instagram ads? Or can we, can we do something that's more sustainable for the long haul? And that was, that was one of the bats.The other big bet that we placed was, from a brand positioning perspective. You know, when I came in the app was definitely geared towards like the through hikers and search and rescue and, and the hardcore, like, you know, back country folks. And the challenge with, with, with that segment is that there's always these, you know, really esoteric and extreme product requirements that they want because they're they're edge cases.They're by definition, all edge cases. And in this space in particular, a lot of them. Kind of living the, you know, the van life, life, you know, trying to live as frugally as possible. and so they don't want to really pay you any money either. It's like this isn't a good growth segment. We got, we gotta rethink this one.And so, I've told this story a lot, you know, this strong man to this day still is, is my wife where like she likes going outside with me. You know, she's always down to go on a high. you know, spend time outside. We have three kids, totally trying to raise them on the trail. we have a dog who loves being on the trail and, but, but if I'm not there, you know, she's, she's not going out there.Right. So it's like, okay, okay. Maybe here's the play. Like what, what if we use technology? Kind of tear down the barriers for entry, like instill confidence, whether through like product functionality or content, but really make it so that someone like my wife and the hundreds of millions of people around the globe, like her who, who know that they feel better when they time spend in nature.They're just a little scared to do it. Like, can we help augment that? Can we help supplement that? And I think that's going to be the unlock. And that was the big bet. That was the other big bet that we placed in 2015. And you know, 00:20:30 Jacob:And just to summarize that, I understand it's like to kind of not ignore these like extreme users that are on the edge on the edges, you know, serve them, but maybe not in the way that they would want, but like let's focus on, you know, this larger segment. I mean, I think that's the thing, even some good founder advice is good for founders.Sometimes doesn't always apply. Like B to C stuff sometimes where it's like, yeah, like, listen to your most vocal users often. There's something there, but like with an ounce of like moderation, because yeah. They can lead you in really strange places. And think about the network. Think about the like user.Maybe you're not talking to her, her the next year saying next a hundred million users that you have to get. and that's potentially a much bigger surface area. And that doesn't mean you're going to abandon those court users. Like they might grumble a little bit and they might not be totally served by your use case.And like, that's maybe just life. but, but you know, you've now potentially, like if you think about the, you know, the mission of just getting people outdoors, like you've achieved that much better by going for this much larger market segment. Right.00:21:31 Ron:Yeah, and they're not mutually exclusive. It's just which one are we prioritizing? Which one are we preferencing? And how are we, you know, what kind of language are we? Are we using lingo or not? Right. Are we making this accessible for everybody or not for imagery? Right. Are we doing like, you know, Alex, Honnold like dangling one handed off of a cliff,00:21:51 Jacob:Or just, or just a picture of the N the end cap at an REI, Right. Like,00:21:56 Ron:Yeah. Yeah. Or, or just like, you know, a family like smiling and having fun out in nature together, you know, like, all right. It doesn't cater to the core, but they're not necessarily going to like walk away because they see that stuff either. 00:22:07 Jacob:Right. I mean, and that comes to. Channel fit As well, right? Like not your products fit and your products oriented for, and that like B to C you kind of, you can't divorce the two, like you can't have totally independent marketing and channel channels for the product itself, which maybe you could get away with a little bit in B2B.But, but, but they, but they don't necessarily have to be like completely like linked, you know, you can kind of serve both niches on the, on the product side to your point.00:22:34 David:And speaking of getting more folks out in the mission of AllTrails. I'd love to hear about your freemium strategy, because that's a huge part of it. Like what early on, what was your approach? And then how did that evolve over time? As far as what features you do give away for free to kind of reach the broadest audience possible, and then what things you pay wall to actually get paid? 00:22:57 Jacob:And, and, and I'd like to highlight how Ron, when we asked you to describe AllTrails, you put free in the name, which I'm sure was very intentional. Right? You said it is a free app, right? It is not a premium app. I mean, it is a premium app, but the highlight the free. So00:23:09 Ron:Yeah,00:23:10 Jacob:That framing, what, what, tell us about your free app.00:23:13 Ron:There's, this is a, this is, an ongoing. Like not debate, but, it's an open question always. And we're constantly like asking our employees and our board, like let's challenge our assumptions here just because we did something a certain way last year. Doesn't mean we need to do it this way.Like let's constantly reevaluate this, for us, there's sort of three main buckets we have. Free on authenticated users and then we have free registered users. So kind of that registration wall is like the first key funnel, metric. And then there's, pro subscribers, right? So we have two, two kind of core, success metrics.One is registration rate and one is pro conversion rate. And then what goes in front and behind the paywall and the red wall, the registration wall. Constantly influx constantly. And plus we actually just did this really fun workshop a couple of weeks ago, internally here. It was like the history of AllTrailss pro and just showing kind of which features started when I, you know, again in 2015, like what was the pro feature set?How much of those? We actually ended up pulling in front of the red wall and new features that we put back behind the paywall. So I feel like we're constantly in a state of experimentation here. we've been, we've been experimenting with that since day one. We've been experimenting with pricing also on day one.And there's still, I don't feel like we've cracked the code at all at all. When I, when I first started here, I'll chose pro was 50 bucks a year and I spent the first, like two months just trying to get as, as much like, obviously all the quant data that I could get my hands on, but as much qualitative data as I could get to.So reading every app store review, every Reddit thread, every blog post. Talking to customers, all of it. And aside from everyone telling us that our data socked and, you know, we can, we got them lost. So we got them tickets from the park ranger for telling them to bring a dog when it's not that currently, whatever it was.The other piece of feedback that we got was like 50 bucks, like it's way too much. And so we immediately started testing pricing and, and, and we tested it at 30 bucks a year and we tested that 15 bucks a year to kinda all right. If we really just take that price down is, the in incremental, purchase rate, gonna offset, you know, the, the change in that revenue per transaction.They were about to wash it, which was really interesting from a net revenue perspective, 15 bucks a year versus 30 bucks a year was, was basically flat. But we went with 30 because it gave us more maneuverability. We could do more. for the folks who were like price sensitive, do do discounting, intro offers, whatever.At 15, we really couldn't go any low, lower. So it's just like, this is it for everybody all the time. but even that we're revisiting now and thinking through like, all right, maybe are there other different tiers? We've never done monthly before. So what is, what is a world in which there's a monthly price?I don't, I don't love it. I mean, again, annual is magic. Like why mess with a good thing, but there is a cohort of users, especially outside of the U S where that's a pretty high00:26:16 Jacob:Oh, I mean, I live in the Midwest. Like I would, I only need your app from, from April to November. Right. Like I really don't need to pay all year.00:26:24 Ron:For the two weeks in00:26:25 Jacob:Yeah. I, but I mean, I think there's the counter argument there of the simplicity. It's like, yeah, sure. But. Whatever your value is. So your, your, your, this is the price.I really, I I've seen that effect before on the price experimentation, you just end up with the same area under the curve. Like, no matter how you move it, and some apps are like that, some apps are not. but I do think it's really fascinating, the wisdom of crowds, right. And just how, like, they know like the, the, the, the masses have priced and valued your products.And then just like showing that like, it's very efficient, right. No matter where it goes, then you can come down to like, It's almost a good place to be. Cause then yeah, you have that like opera, you can choose where you want it to price. You can basically, you're freed from the like fiduciary duty of like maximum extraction.And you can like, like, just focus on like, okay, what's gonna what's right. For us for some of those goals on company growth and stuff like that. If it was right for the mission. And then like also give yourself some like tactical opportunities in terms of discounting and other stuff like this, and then positioning as well.Like what is it? I think that's almost as important. It's like, how do you use. How do you see all trials? Like how do you see it as like, what's the value of perception? Like a $30 skew and a 50 and a 15, those are very different. Right. And those are, you know, I think about consumer goods on those scales.That's like each one of those things has like a different, like, feel to it.00:27:43 Ron:Totally. And, and then on top of it, though, our business is driven by UGC, right? We have this classic UGC flywheel. And so obviously we know our pro users are more engaged, but a ton of engagement comes from our free users as well. And so you can't kind of, turn the squeeze on them too hard without like really fundamentally damaging the business.00:28:05 Jacob:What kind of user generated content? Is it like pictures and updated and stuff or what? What's00:28:10 Ron:Yeah, ratings, reviews, photos, recordings, you know, and then there's this also this virtuous cycle that we have, this beautiful relationship we have with our users, where they, they help us create as well as Curie our trail Content. So that's the thing with trail content, just to go down this rabbit hole for a second, Joe Content, super fluid, like it's not like streets that are, that are relatively static.You know, a trail is you get, you get flooding, you get fires, you get maintenance, you get development, down trees, whatever. Like they're constantly in a state of flux. And it's really, really hard to stay on top of it. We can't do it alone. And so we00:28:49 Jacob:And there's no, it's not like, it's not like roads where there's like a national database, right. Of like uniform data00:28:55 Ron:Yeah, no, not at all. Right. so we, we do. We have this like really beautiful symbiotic relationship with our, with our users, you know, and, and it's kind of like, we both get value from each other and we're both very transparent about like the relationship, like you guys help us and you help the community.Right. And we'll package it. We'll, we'll keep improving and investing in the product experience and everything else. and again, like, this is where it seems to be working, but this is when, when we were talking about. Th th the choke points in the funnel and that, that red wall and the broken version Weill, this is the thing that's top of mind over all of it. 00:29:30 David:Yeah, that's great. I did want to move on and talk about in 2018, AllTrails raised, 75 million led by spectrum equity. And so I'm curious about that, about that story. So, I know, you know, the plan was to sell and then you've shared on other podcasts that, part of that was the founder taking, taking some money kind of his exit event.But I'm really curious just from like a company building perspective. I think so many founders and entrepreneurs think, oh, if I can just. More money. If I can just hire more people, everything's going to be easier. but I imagine that's not the full story. So I'd love to hear about the raise, but then also kind of how that changed the company and changed the trajectory.00:30:18 Ron:Yeah. So like I said earlier, right. That the handshake agreement was to grow and sell it. So we knew going in exactly what the deal was. and once we hit profitability in 2017, it kind of felt like, all right, it's probably next year. It's probably our year. And we got an inbound from one of the big tech companies early, you know, probably end of Q1 of 2018.And so I was like, all right, game on, right? This is it. We'll go get a bank. we'll run a formal process here. And we started going through it. We started going through it. This was actually, it was fun, right? Like I got to put together sort of like, all right, here's our top 100 strategic partnerships broken out by category, broken out by vertical.Here's like the, you know, the accretive value here is, you know, the, the investment credit. It was like a really fun thought exercise. You know, we're talking to online travel companies and real estate companies, and obviously like the retailers and just so many different types of companies out there. And we ran a process and it was, it was fun.But, and as we were going through it, well, a couple things happen. One is our business really took off. Like it was a breakout trajectory year for us. So that always helps. Anytime you, you meet with someone, you share your plan and then you come back a month later and it's like, Hey, actually, Outperforming outpacing.So your price just went up. so that was, I mean, that was great. Like a great position to be in. I've never had leveraged like that. And the other, the other thing was like, we could walk away at any point. If we, if we didn't like it, I had done a lot of fundraising before and that I've never had a position of, of leverage like that.So that was cool. But as we were going through the process and talking to these different strategic acquires, the other thing that kept jumping out was like, I don't want to just go be middle management at some big company that I already like have chosen not to work out anyways, because it doesn't align with what I want to do with my time.And so, you know, we're kind of going through, it's like, is this really, is this it is this the only path? and we're talking to our bankers about it and like, you know, there's a, a huge ecosystem of financial investors that are really excited about this consumer subscription space. let's, let's do a spike there.And so we started talking to somebody. Different financial firms out there. And that's where it got really, really interesting. you know, I think, I think we all probably have preconceptions about like private equity groups, like, you know, I know, right.00:32:36 Jacob:Just, it then the light dimmed here. When you said00:32:39 Ron:I know, cause a lot of the classic ones, they're just there in your shorts about like your bottom line expenses and micromanaging and telling you to cut costs and00:32:47 Jacob:That's, that's the, that's the, the stereotype at least.00:32:50 Ron:Totally right. but there's this whole class of growth equity shops out there and, and we, we sort of plugged into it and I would squarely put spectrum equity and that one, and the first time we talked to them, it was so clear. They're like, you guys, aren't thinking big enough. It's like, what? I love that.Okay. Let's talk growth. You know, like you guys need to be thinking global. Right. And it was just like, there was so much alignment around. This, this opportunity in front of us. And instead of like pulling the rip cord and just kind of being absorbed and integrated into something else, it's like, how about, like, we really make a, make a run at this.And so the more we talk to them, the more it's was like, yes, hell yes. And it wasn't just from like, a funding perspective, you know? Cause if it was just that like again, then you just do an auction and you just see whoever's the highest. But we really wanted, like I needed a partner. I wanted a value added partner that I wanted someone who could bring in, you know, a sense of community, not have to reinvent the wheel all the time.That's always nice when you can plug into our portfolio of similar companies and just pick their brain. All right. Like how did you guys00:33:54 Jacob:Yeah. I mean, that's an under, that's an underappreciated aspect of raising versus like going at your own. It's like the network, like it's, I think feces oversell it, but maybe founders undervalue it. Right? Like00:34:05 Ron:A hundred percent. Couldn't agree more. It does. It really does. and so yeah, we kinda went, yeah. I, I feel incredibly fortunate that we were able to partner up with spectrum equity. And so David two question, I have, it's like it for us, it was this huge unlock. It was this huge online. Like we have another partner, we're going to be more formal, with our board structure and, you know, the, the sort of like metrics, which is great, like we needed to level up, and our corporate diligence and everything.And they've been, they've been a partner and we've, we've grown the board. We've added more expertise. And again, like the, the portfolio being, being sister companies with, with like Headspace and the not worldwide and survey monkey, whatever, like these cool companies that I respect and be able to, you know, hit up the CEO and be like, okay, how did you guys deal with this?Because like you said, like there are a ton of challenges that come when you're going through that, you know, that the slope of the curve at that point, right? Like the true hyper-growth curves. All right. You know, we can't fall back on, on money as an excuse, you know, like it's purely an execution play and how do we do more faster?And that's honestly like, that's my, I think one of the coolest things I can say about my board, that the single biggest piece of feedback I get from them where they're just like yelling at me all the time and a great way. It's like, you gotta do more faster. Why aren't you doing more faster? Right. Like that is the mantra here because everyone sees this opportunity.It's ours, it's ours to go take. Right. But we got to execute and do it as fast as we can.00:35:33 Jacob:Yeah. That's that's, I mean, I'll say as somebody recently constructing a board, like that was sort of my cause as a founder and as a CEO, like you're always, you're just, you're you're at, you should be at the limits if you're doing your job. Right, right. Like you should be kind of feeling at least like thinking, you know, what your limits are and what the company's limits are.And it's nice. Even if there isn't anything more you can do. It's nice to have some people who like, ostensibly are aligned with you to be like, Are you sure there's not more right? Like, is there anything like, are you doing like, could, could you change this? Like, could you go go faster potentially? And sometimes the answer's no, but it does always kinda, you leave those board meetings going like, like maybe there is like, maybe there is some way we could do this, like better or faster, right.00:36:10 Ron:Yeah. And then you build a team, right? And that leads back to like the team growth. And this, you know, this is our third year in a row of, of doubling head count. Hopefully next year will be our fourth year in a row. And all of the leverage, I'm a big believer, like two things are the lifeblood for companies like ours.One is culture and the other is momentum. And you can't, if you lose either of them, Right. Like, you cannot take your eye off of either of those as a CEO, as a founder, whatever it is. and so like building both, you know, they, they got to go hand in hand, or you can sacrifice culture as you're doing the internal hypergrowth.00:36:43 Jacob:Have an exit strategy, right?00:36:45 Ron:Exactly.00:36:46 Jacob:Going to last very long.00:36:47 Ron:Because you'll never get it back. That's exactly right. But, but generating momentum through like value added hires and raising the bar or bringing, you know, a bringing in a plus, I love being the dumbest person in the room. That's my favorite thing at all. Choose walking in there. It was like, all right, I'm going to learn something.Someone's going to teach me something cool. and building a team.00:37:06 David:So it sounds like the biggest unlock for y'all taking the money was just the ability to hire faster, hire better folks, offer better pay. but was there anything else that you feel like taking funding helped unlock for AllTrails? Did you, were you able to spend Mo did you start spending more on, on user acquisition or ramping anything else out? 00:37:27 Jacob:Can I ask a clarifying question without like you sharing your term sheet or whatever, but like D w like these, these deals can be very different than like a venture deal, right. Where like, almost always all of it hits the books and it's dilutive, meaning that the company gets the money, but this was like kind of a buyout for the founder as an alternative to a sale.It's like, did you guys structure it? So some hit the books and not, or was it all to the founders or how did it, whatever you're comfortable00:37:50 Ron:We, we hardly took any primary capital in 2018. I didn't, I didn't want it. I don't want it. Like I liked our organic trajectory. I didn't want. And obviously I've gotten to know spectrum a lot better. They're not built from the CNA, but you take money from a VC. And the expectation is like the success metric is suspended as hard and aggressive as possible because they're incentivized to keep you hooked, you know, on the next round.And I wanted to, you know, accelerate more like on the product development side of things, but I didn't want to get stuck in a, a growth model that's dependent on unsustainable paid acquisition. Right. So. almost the entire deal with secondary capital, which was great, which was00:38:33 Jacob:And for the financial illiterate IME, like 18 months ago,00:38:37 Ron:Yeah,00:38:38 Jacob:The company gets the money. Secondary would be somebody who's already a shareholder gets the00:38:41 Ron:Exactly the people on the cap table. so it was buying out the founder, buying out the original investors, like really cleaning it out. It was a new chapter, a new book altogether. At that point and, you know, start sort of starting together. I think, you know, to the question earlier, in terms of like the other value as like, I really can't stress enough, just the strategic value add that I was able to get like, again, because as a founder or as a CEO or as an example, You're kind of stuck in your own head a lot and you can talk to other founders, but you know, there's this like culture, especially in Silicon valley, like, oh bro, coaching it.Yeah. I mean just crushing it, you know? No, one's, you know.00:39:19 Jacob:I didn't, you didn't have to put air quotes around culture there, but like, I could hear the00:39:24 Ron:Yeah.00:39:24 Jacob:I'm called.00:39:25 Ron:You know, and very few people are like really open and transparent, about the challenges and what have you. And so being able to go in. and have this board that I trust that I feel like we're all aligned. I've had boards, you know, especially VC backed boards, where you get like a different, you know, venture capitalists from every round that you do.Like you have a lot of misaligned incentives. You have a lot of sharp elbows in a room.00:39:47 Jacob:I was gonna say, there's a lot of, you know, these are all competitors in a lot of cases, right? Hopefully you pick well, and you have people that are professionals, but like you can totally end up in a situation where you have frenemies,00:39:57 Ron:Yeah, you're watching your back at your own boards. That's a horrible way to live. Whereas with this one, it was so clean. It was like, we were owned by spectrum. This is great. I work at on their behalf. This is great. We've got the two of them there's me. And then, and then, but to their credit, they're like, let's bring on two more operators.And so, you know, they didn't care about like, well, we have to have 51% plus of the seats. It was just like, no, let's just surround ourselves with really awesome. And so we got, you know, we got the former CEO of ancestry, who, you know, they know a thing or two about, subscription businesses. And then we got the COO of Robin hood and obviously like they know a thing or two about hyper-growth and everything else.And again, like, so it's almost like it's this team, you know, it's like this dream team we're just collectively, like they're helping me chart stuff. Like see things. I wouldn't have been able to see on my own, whatever the pattern00:40:45 Jacob:Yeah.I mean, I think it's, it's, it's a good story in the sense that like, I think, I think we think too terminally sometimes about companies, right? Like it's like, they're born, they are grown and then they get sold and then they die usually like nine times out of 10, right? Like it's, it's not often that an intern, like I say, all goes well and the integration goes, well, some spectrum of results.Right. But this is a result where I think you, you guys have a company that's two important. To let die, right? Like if you had sold, I don't know what, you know, your fangs or whoever was like, I'm sure I could see any number of massive tech company wanting this to be a part of their data set or part of their like social, like aspect of whatever.It's just, I could see a plugging into a lot of things, but you know, to get Google's exciting acquisition today and not saying you guys. Talking to Google or not, but as an example, like their exciting acquisition today is tomorrow is like, you know, happy trails, blog posts, right. That actually a good name for the, the shutting down AllTrails, acquisition at Google blogposts.But, but the, you know, and this is a, this is a path where, you know, people who are passionate about the mission, the employees and the users, like can kind of, you know, get that exit that people are looking for. But without like jeopardizing. Thing that's important. And like, maybe this is very hippie, right?But like, I think there is some aspect of companies that's beyond like the capital value and beyond like, even like the culture, but like actually achieving the mission and, and making that change in the world or providing that service. That's, that's, that's more important than, you know, Hypergrowth or whatever.And look, I mean, we should get into talking about now, like posts around, but it sounds like you guys are in hyper-growth anyway. Right. So it didn't, it's not like it's, it's this false dichotomy of right. Like either you're like raising for venture and you're like going at it really hard or Like you're a lifestyle business or, you know, whatever.And it's just like, Maybe, whereas maybe us like lampooning, this straw man of a false narrative has like most of the talking about this to like make that is the, the, the totality of the false dichotomy is us talking about it. But I really think this is a great example of like one of those like interesting, you know, outcomes and, and stories.So it tell us about what's happening now. 00:42:52 David:I appreciate you sharing that specifically because even in researching it, I listened to a couple of your other interviews. I still assume that that the. A pretty big primary chunk that, that went into the balance sheet of the company and then it accelerated it from there. So it's an even more interesting story to me that that raise was mostly secondary.So from the $3 million seed way back in, whatever it was 20 12, 20 13, it really has been an almost bootstrapped company and becoming what it is today on. Little capital is really incredible and it really kind of speaks to consumer subscription space and, and how you can operate and go big without spending a ton of money.If you do it right. If you don't, if you don't just plug into Instagram and blow $5 million of VC money acquiring the wrong users, if you actually talk to them and build a good product and everything else. but I did00:43:55 Ron:Well, and I was just stay on top of not only that at the first board meeting that we had with. I, I walked in and I said, Hey, you know, this is great high five super-stoked, we're also, I think we should donate 1% of our revenue to environmental causes. I know you guys just shelled out a whole lot of money, but would that be okay?And to their credit, they're like Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. And you know, one of the first things we did post-transaction was signing up for 1% for the planet, you know, like there there's totally a different path here. I didn't realize it. And I think it's cool for people.I don't know. I, I wish I heard this earlier in my career. Like there are, like you said, like there's not a dichotomy, like there's so many different ways to do this. I think we have. Fetishizing almost, or like putting on a pedestal this whole like massive VC round kind of stuff, you know, and there's a time and a place for it, for sure.But like, that's not the success metric in and of itself, like more often than not, especially for earlier companies, the death knell. And so I think that, I'm always, you know, I get, I get hit up by people, you know, for whatever I'll all the time talking about this kind of stuff. And so I was like, dude, if you can boot shop, if you can control your own destiny, like do it, you know, find right partners that are gonna unlock growth and everything else.Don't fall, don't fall victim to that. Like, just that story that you think is like the classic Silicon valley startup story, which is you go out, you raise a big round and you have an IPO. It never works. It never works that way00:45:19 Jacob:Who would do that?00:45:20 Ron:To too many man.00:45:22 Jacob:We're running out of time. I do want to know. So you're talking about like doubling and so I'm guessing like the pandemic, like we've seen across the ecosystem has been really, especially, I can imagine there's two aspects to it, right? Like one your digital service.And then secondly, like you're very good compatible with like, social distancing. So did you like think you would be having this conversation for whatever four years after the spectrum, deal like doubling every head count every year? Cause that's typically not what private equity companies growth rates look like.00:45:51 Ron:I know. No, it was, I mean, so I'll preface this by saying we were incredibly fortunate during COVID and sometimes you just get lucky. Sometimes you get like, there's a ton of great companies out there that just like how to pull sales reps out of the field, or we're an equip for like the supply chain issues or whatever it was.Right. Like, Well, like you said, we're digital first company. we, we already, we had a somewhat distributed workforce, so we already like using zoom and slack and going fully remote. Like we, we saw no, no drop in productivity. Now granted like when, when the world shut down mid-March that was a little bit scary.But we knew it would be temporary. I, you know how long no one really knew. Bye bye. Mid April, we were going to our board and saying like, look like, I know things look a little bleak right now. Like the, the machine has fully ground to a hall, but we think actually like this is going to be an insane accelerant.Once things open back up, there's nothing to do. Like you said, it lends itself perfectly to social distancing. You know, people who can't travel anymore. Like, all right, we're going to explore our local state parks now, you know, like we'll scratch that. It's that way I got three kids and you know, school is canceled and obviously, you know, summer camps forget.What are we going to do? What are we going to do with these kids? And it's like, we're going to run them ragged on the trail, you know, every weekend we're just going on the trail and we're running them ragged and00:47:10 Jacob:There's a good ad campaign in there. Just00:47:11 Ron:Totally right. And so,00:47:13 Jacob:Sleeping kids in the back of a Subaru Forester and it's like,00:47:16 Ron:Yes, exactly. So, I mean, you know, we made, we did make a big strategic decision, to get in front of it and, and start hiring like crazy, and just make, you know, make a play, make a play. And, and again, Sometimes you get lucky. you know, that works, that works all these companies around us, that we were never able to like really poach from or whatever.Something like we're able to go grab their talent. Like not just from people who are like, oh, but people were actively working there who were just like, I don't want to do this with my life anymore. I like spending time outside. I had the number of people, the number of inbound applicants that like write in their cover letter.I was looking at which apps I use the most. And I just started applying to those jobs. You know, I think that there really is. It's like really. Great. And I applaud it and I love it. And I hope it never stops people like taking more agency and control over their career and not just like reactively, you know, just doing whatever leftovers00:48:10 Jacob:Yeah. I mean, the geographic unlock of remote, I think is a big part of that. Right. Cause suddenly like you're, you can just literally go on your phone and pretty probably today, nine times out of 10, you're going to be able to work for that company depending on your like, you know, locale or like time00:48:22 Ron:Totally.00:48:23 Jacob:It wasn't that way two years ago,00:48:25 Ron:Not at all, not at all. Exactly. So, a lot changed. A lot has changed in this time. With all of that, with the big accelerant they were seeing on the usability side through 2020, there is, I think David, you had asked this like pre pre-show, you know: there's two big questions hanging over our business as we went into 2021.One is, are the registered users who we got last year during COVID are they going to convert to pro like our conversion to pro happens over time? We look at a lot of stuff through a cohorted basis, and it goes up and to the right. It will take years for some users across the line to go pro, but it's great.It just keeps going up. So, are the folks who signed up when there was nothing else to do, are they ever going to convert to pro or not? The other big question is: all the folks who converted to pro in the height of the pandemic in 2020, once the world opens up, are they going to retain? Or, are we going to have the bottom drop out from under us?These were two questions hanging over our heads. We have a seasonal business, it follows the sun pretty much. So, as we headed into May, June, July of this year, thankfully that the answer for both was a resounding “yes.” The folks who signed up last year are converting at a higher rate than normal.The folks who subscribed are retaining at higher rates than normal, too. And I think it's kind of more of a testament to how the zeitgeists has changed a little bit post pandemic. Being outside just makes people feel good. I guess it's that simple. It's not very complicated.You feel better when you spend time outside, and people are just incorporating it into their regular routines.00:50:08 Jacob:Yeah. It's interesting. For positives and negatives, I think you came up three cherries, right? It just really lined up, and then it's continued. You're talking about the hiring thing, too. Like a lot of habits changed during COVID, and I don't think anything will necessarily go back. Especially if people have found a new, happier, maximum for their lives. You guys are part of that. That's great. and that seems like, I dunno, we don't have total good analytic quantitative data on this, but it doesn't seem like the whole boosts from last year totally collapsed.It seems like it just was like an accelerate, and I think other industries would sort of back that up. 00:50:54 David:Yep. Well, we're coming up on time. Is there anything else I should've asked you? 00:50:59 Ron:No, this was fun.00:51:00 Jacob:You guys are probably hiring, right?00:51:02 Ron:We're hiring like crazy right now. Yeah, absolutely.00:51:06 Jacob:AllTrails?00:51:07 Ron:Yeah.00:51:08 Jacob:There you go.00:51:08 David:Any particular roles you want to shout out? 00:51:11 Ron:We're always starving for great engineering talent. Android, iOS, front end, back end dev ops, security, all of it. PMs, product designers, mapping designers, customer support, the full gamut. The entire company, every department is hiring right now.00:51:28 David:Well, it sounds like a really fun company to work for. We'll put links to your job page and to your personal LinkedIn, and a few other places in the show notes, but this was really fun chatting with you today, Ron. Thank you so much for taking the time. 00:51:41 Ron:My pleasure guys. Thanks for having me. This was fun.

Marketing Trends
Maximizing Email Engagement with Cynthia Price, VP of Marketing, Litmus

Marketing Trends

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 17, 2021 44:29


When there's a problem, the sooner you know about it, the better. And this doesn't just relate to high-level problems. The quicker you can identify that something is an issue and rectify it, the quicker you can get to making a meaningful difference towards your end goal. This is the case for email marketing. If the subject line of your email is causing a trend towards a lower than usual click rate, you've got to improve that in real-time. To do this, Cynthia Price, the VP of Marketing at Litmus, focuses her attention on good content marketing. How does she do this, by analyzing and reacting to data based on real-time campaign performance? The end result is a content marketing campaign that originates from high-performing blog posts.“Over the course of the past three months, that campaign that started as a blog post turned into a giant revolving door of great content. We've now done two webinars that map up to it. Sales is consistently sending updates to prospects. We hope everybody who touches that content becomes a customer, but ultimately we see the value in sort of the bigger picture of just providing something to the industry that is hard to untangle in order to figure out.” Untangling complex email campaigns and getting the most you can out of them is imperative in today's marketing world. In this episode of Marketing Trends, Cynthia explains to me why email continues to prove its value in the marketing mix, how marketers can maximize its ROI, and you can turn those declining open rates into success. I'm excited for you to learn more about how to stay on the cutting edge of email. Let's get to it!Main TakeawaysContent Marketing and Thought Leadership: If you can put your mind to the task and address the new problems that no one has addressed before you can assume a role of thought leadership while focusing on some of the broader issues the industry is seeing. Don't wait for someone else to be the leader on how to address new industry changes, industry regulations, and any unforeseen circumstances. Outline a reasonable roadmap of solutions and create an entire content campaign around it to achieve the ultimate marketing goal, giving real value to your audience.Strategic ABM Marketing: If you're going to try to tap into the powers of ABM marketing you need to be very selective about the scope of customer you're targeting. Use data, not feelings to make the best list of prospects. It's okay to have lofty goals on your client prospect list, but stay focused on the size of businesses that you can best serve. You'll both be getting the maximum benefit out of this relationship.Bringing Community to the Scattered Email Marketing World: If your company can be a leading voice in your industry, that's a big win. The way things were designed for email marketing campaigns wasn't like the way they're done for web pages or really anything else. The email world was a bit scattered before Litmus brought marketers together, creating community, bringing resources, and giving a definite answer to things that there was a lot of confusion around before.Key Quotes“Over the course of the past three months, [this] campaign started as a blog post; it wasn't really a campaign per se. It turned into a giant revolving door of really great content where we've now done two webinars that map up to it. We've got a big downloadable piece of content and sales is consistently sending updates to prospects. hen we can react to what's happening in the world around us and really provide some value, we certainly hope everybody who touches that content becomes a customer, but ultimately we see the value in sort of the bigger picture of just providing something to the industry  that is hard to untangle in order to figure out.”“One of the reasons I joined Litmus is that Litmus did a really good job over the years before I was here of being a leader in the space and being a voice. Email marketing is such a complicated, weird world to live in because the people who are designing emails know this inside and out, but mail designed for email is different than designed for the web. It's somewhat archaic. There are over a hundred email clients that they're trying to design for. There's just all this confusion. Litmus had done a really good job over the years of finding a place for that community to gather together both virtually and in live events, finding resources for them that really speak to things; there wasn't a definitive answer on a lot of these things out there and let us sort of help ‘uncloud' some of the murkiness there.”“We went back to the drawing board and let the data inform who should be on that list [of prospects]. You look at your close one report from the last year, and we're only going after those industries. We're only going after those size companies. Start really small, as small as ABM will allow you to go and then build from there and, and still have some of those wishlist customers on the list, but the bulk of the list needs to be informed by data.” “We made the critical mistake of 1.) doing a lot of building before we tested anything out and 2.) we didn't put a solid marketing plan together for it, nor did we have a plan to iterate for it. We wanted it to have a bigger impact  on marketers than it did. And I think part of it was that it was, it was fun. It was quirky, but it probably wasn't providing a value on the back end for them to share it with their friends and, and think about it in a bigger way ...Also, we didn't really have a plan B.““We just put out an email engagement report that looks on the backend of everything.  It looks like open rates. We always say, don't take this and everybody send an email at 8:00 AM in the U S because then it breaks [down]. [There's] interesting trends where, first thing in the morning is the best time in the US for open rates, whereas 3:00 PM is the best time in the UK. That's just behavioral information about people. I think as we get further and further down this A.I. path, depending on what third party data does or doesn't allow us to do, we're going to get a lot smarter about those kinds of things as well.”BioCynthia Price is the VP of Marketing at Litmus. Her team grows and supports the Litmus and email community through content marketing, demand generation, and events. She has been in the email marketing industry for over 10 years, previously as VP of marketing at Emma, an email service provider. She has a passion for authentic communications and the power of email at the heart of the marketing mix.To learn more, click here: {{URL of detail page on found on www.mission.org}}---Marketing Trends podcast is brought to you by Salesforce. Discover marketing built on the world's number one CRM: Salesforce. Put your customer at the center of every interaction. Automate engagement with each customer. And build your marketing strategy around the entire customer journey. Salesforce. We bring marketing and engagement together. Learn more at salesforce.com/marketing.   

Pass the Salt Live
Coach Dave LIVE | 11-16-2021 | WHEN ALL THE ANTS STAND UP – AUDIO ONLY

Pass the Salt Live

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 16, 2021 30:08


LINKS FROM TODAY’S SHOW: Enemies within the Church: https://enemieswithinthechurch.com/ “Slander” according to Webster 1828: http://www.webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/slander  New Orleans upholds mandate block: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10197077/U-S-appeals-court-affirms-hold-Biden-COVID-19-vaccine-mandate.html 5th Circuit Court of Appeals with Tony Spell: https://coachdavelive.video/video/3091/prayer-and-praise-over-pastor-tony-spell?channelName=Bobbylee Bug’s Life clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLbWnJGlyMU Murder […]

Random but Memorable
Crypto Stolen House Disgust

Random but Memorable

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 16, 2021 35:02


It's a particularly icky round of Ridiculous Requirements on this week's episode, and an all-new extended Watchtower Weekly. And you asked for more security news so we're going to give it to you! (Please don't blame us for any additional side-effects of disgust...)In other news *shuffles papers on desk* we're also joined by 1Password's very own Phil Letourneau. Settle in as Phil takes us through the history behind our new password secure sharing tool and gives some top tips on how to use it. PSST – you won't want to miss it!

[Abridged] Presidential Histories
22.A.) Mugwumps, scandals, and the stunning campaign of 1884, an interview with Ted Kohn

[Abridged] Presidential Histories

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 15, 2021 28:38


How do you break a 28-year losing streak? It takes good strategy, a bit of luck, and sometimes whatever the heck a mugwump is.Join me as I interview Ted Kohn, the Dean of the College of Liberal Arts at Norwich University and a historian of the Gilded Age in American History, on how the Democrats ended an era of Republican rule. Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/AbridgedPresidentialHistories)

Craig Peterson's Tech Talk
Is Your Firewall Actually Protecting You? What Should You Be Doing?

Craig Peterson's Tech Talk

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 12, 2021 84:27


Is Your Firewall Actually Protecting You? What Should You Be Doing? New stats are out this week. So what's the number one vector of attack against us? Our Firewalls. And they're failing. So, what's going on. And what can you do about it? [Automated transcript follows] [00:00:16] And of course, I'm always talking about cyber security, because if you ask me that is one of the biggest problems we have in business. [00:00:27] Today. Well, yeah, you got to find employees. In fact, uh, it's almost impossible to find them in the cyber security space as well. And it's been hard for years. So I try to keep you up-to-date here. We've got boot camps that are coming up and you are really going to like them. We've been working on some supplemental materials for it. [00:00:47] And of course these boot camps are always free, so you can join it. You can have your friends come and learn the. Basics. It's not one of these high sell things. Right. I, I got a little letter in the mail this week saying, Hey, you can come and get a free steak dinner. And of course it's kind of like a timeshare, right? [00:01:09] Jay, you have to listen to the pitch. Yes. Stay over. On us. And you are going to be sitting there for four hours listening to this crazy pitch that's going on. That's not what my bootcamps are. Anybody that's been to. One of them will tell you we work on it. I explain it. You know what you have to do, how you have to do it, the wise, the winds, the wherefores. [00:01:35] So if you would like to learn more for yourself, Make sure you sign up Craig peterson.com sign up for my newsletter. And when a bootcamp is coming up, I will be sure to tell you about it in the newsletter so that you can attend. And it's important to, to understand that this is yeah. Aimed at business, the, these boot camps, but almost everything businesses have to do or shouldn't be doing the same thing applies to you in your. [00:02:08] So, if you are a small business person, if you're someone who has some it experience, and you've been assigned to worry about cyber security, this is for you. If you are a very small business and you're kind of the Jack of all trades, and you've got to worry about cybersecurity, this is for you. And I just got. [00:02:31] This week from someone on my email list who is retired and she was talking about her husband and her, they don't have any kids, no errors. They're trying to protect their financial investments. And of course I responded saying, Hey, I'm not a financial investment advisor, but I can certainly give you some cyber security input, which I did. [00:02:53] And you can ask your questions as well. I'm more than glad to hear them. And you probably, if you've sent them in, you know, I always answer them now. My big man, a few days might take me a week, but I will get around to it. And I try and respond to the emails. Sometimes I answered here on the radio show or on my podcast, but usually it's via email me. [00:03:17] At Craig peterson.com. And of course, that's also on my website, Craig peterson.com. And that's also my name Craig Peters on.com. So let's get into the firewall thing. When you have a network, you are connecting that network to your computers, maybe. To your security cameras, to your printers that you have, maybe there's a lock system. [00:03:44] Maybe there's more, all of this stuff is interconnected and it's all rather well and good. You can have a whole lot of fun with it, but it is not as particularly good if you can't get out to the internet. So what do we do? We hook our network, whether it's home or if it's business to the internet. Now, you know, all of this stuff so far, right? [00:04:06] You're following me. The internet is actually inter connected networks. In case you didn't know, there are now millions of networks that are connected on the internet. There are core networks out there. We were my company like number 10,000. I think it was, uh, a S an R a S number autonomous system. So we were fairly early on. [00:04:32] And of course, as you know, I've been on the internet in various forums since the early 1980s and helping to develop the protocols, but it is important to remember it is an interconnected network of networks. You might ask why? Well, the bottom line is you aren't connecting your network with other networks that have malicious software on them. [00:04:58] Maybe they're just poorly configured. Maybe they're causing a denial of service attack effectively because there's so badly configured. But whatever the case may be, you are still exposed. If you look at the traffic that's coming to your router. So your router is sitting at the edge of your network connected to your internet service provider. [00:05:19] So it might be Comcast or Verizon or a whole slew of others. But your network is connected via a router. Then the router knows how do I get my data from the input to the output or from the output to the input, if you will upstream and downstream data, that's what the router is for. And if you look at the data on your router and most of us can't, but if you were able to, what you will see is hundreds of thousands of internet packets coming to, and from your. [00:05:55] Router your endpoint every day. Usually these are bad guys doing what are called scans. They do port scans. They're primarily looking for services. So what do you, do you have a firewall now in many cases, you'll get a device from your Janette service provider that has a router built in and has a firewall built in, and it has wifi. [00:06:19] All of this stuff, all built in together makes life all nice and warm and fuzzy and Catalina, doesn't it. But in reality, it's not necessarily a good thing to have it all in one, because you're definitely not going to get the best of breed and router or firewall or wifi, but that's a different story. What is that firewall for that router? [00:06:41] Of course, it's getting all this internet traffic and anything that's on the internet that is. I'm trying to get to you is going to go through the. And anything that you are trying to send up to the internet, like for instance, to try and get a web page or something is also going to go up through that router. [00:07:02] So how do you protect yourself time? Was that there wasn't really much of a way to protect yourself. And frankly, there weren't a lot of reasons. To try and protect yourself. And the internet was just this wonderful open thing, lots of fun and played around a lot. Back in the early nineties, it was, it was just a joy in the late eighties to, to be connected up to the internet and then bad guys started doing bad things. [00:07:30] We took the concept of what you have in an automobile and applied it to the. If you're driving your car, your in the passenger compartment and that passenger compartment is hopefully warm in the winter and cool in the summertime. And you are protected from that big mean nasty engine that's in front of you, or if you're driving an electric car from those mean nasty batteries that are probably below you in that car and what's between you and the. [00:08:04] Of course a firewall. And the idea is to keep the nastiness of that engine, all of the heat, the oil, the grime, the wind, everything else is associated with that engine. Keep that away from you so that you can now drive that car just comfortably in that controlled climate of the passenger compartment, that concept was then applied to the inter. [00:08:30] And in fact, I designed and implemented one of the first firewalls ever made way back when and the firewall in the internet Partland is very similar to the car in the car. You have some protrusions through that fire. Don't you, you you've got a steering wheel. How does that get up to the front of the car? [00:08:53] Well, it goes through the firewall and around that steering wheel, of course there's some EBDM, some rubber type stuff that helps stop anything from coming through right next to that steering column. Same, thing's true with the brake pedal and the gas pedal. At least it used to be. Nowadays, it's so much of this as drive by wire, that the only thing going through the firewall is a wire and there's no mechanical linkage. [00:09:24] Unlike my car, which is a 1980 Mercedes-Benz diesel. Where yes, indeed. Direct linkages to everything. So the firewall in the cars protecting you from the nastiness in the engine compartment and the firewall, when it comes to your internet is doing something very similar. Think about your house for a minute, you have a house with doors and windows. [00:09:53] I would hope. And a chimney and maybe a couple of other protrusions that are going outside of the house. Well, you have some similar problems and when it comes to the internet and when it comes to the firewall, With your house, sir. Sure. You could post a guard out front, a whole series of them. You've got a dozen guards out front and they are all guarding that front door. [00:10:19] But if no, one's watching the back door, if no one's paying attention to the windows, there's still ways for the bad guys to get in. And that's what we're going to talk about. How does the internet firewall tie into this analogy of cars and the analogy of your home? Because it's a very important point when you get right down to it. [00:10:44] We need to understand this because the number one tactic reported this week by MITRE and Cisco is exploitation of public facing application. So I'm going to explain what that is. What's your firewall can do for you and what you should do for your firewall. A stick around. We've got a lot more coming up. [00:11:09] I want to invite you to go. Of course, right now, online to Craig peterson.com. Once you're there, just sign up for mind's newsletter. Simple Craig peterson.com. [00:11:25] This week, we found out what the top five tactics are that are most frequently being used by bad guys to attack us. This is done by MITRE and Cisco systems. Number one, public facing applications. What does that mean? [00:11:42] We've been talking about this report, but really what we've been delving into is how data flows on your network, whether it's a home network or maybe it's a business network, how does this whole mess work? [00:11:58] And when miters talks about the biggest problem here, 91% of the time being what's called an exploit of a public facing application, what does that mean? We went through the basics of a firewall and a router. So all of the data coming from the internet, coming into the router, then handed to the firewall. [00:12:24] Any data going out, goes into the firewall. And then the. So that's the pretty simplistic version. And of course the firewall on your network does a similar thing to the firewall in your car. It stops the bad stuff, at least it's supposed to, but your home and your car both have different ways of getting. [00:12:48] Past the firewall in the house. It's your doors and your windows in the car. Of course, it's where the steering column goes through where the brake pedal and the gas pedal go through the clutch, all of that stuff that perch, um, permeates, it goes through. That firewall. And of course, you've probably, if you're been around for awhile, you've had leaks coming through your firewall and, uh, you know, how poorest they can be sometimes. [00:13:18] Well, we have the same type of thing on our internet firewalls. Every home has doors and what we call the doors in on the internet is similar to what they call them. On the, in the Navy, on the water, the reports. So think about a porthole in a boat, or think about a, a door, a port, which is the French word for door. [00:13:45] What happens on the internet? For instance, if you're trying to connect to Craig peterson.com, you are going to connect to a specific port on my server. So the address typically, uh, is going to be resolved by DNS. And then once it gets to the server, you can connect to port 4 43. You might try and connect to port 80, but I'll do a redirect, but that's neither here nor there. [00:14:12] So you're going to connect to that port four 40. So my firewall has to say, Hey, if somebody is coming in and wants to get to port 4 43, which is called a well-known port, that's the port that all web server. Listen on. So if someone's trying to get to my port, my web server on port 4 43, let them in. But if someone's trying to get to another port, don't let them in. [00:14:48] Now there's multiple ways to respond or not respond. I can talk about that right now. That'd be for deep dive workshop, but the idea is. Each application that you are connecting to, or that your providing has. Part of the problem that we've been seen. And this is a very big problem is that people are not changing the administrative passwords on their machines. [00:15:20] So administrative passwords mean things like admin for the username and admin for the password on your firewall. So. Your firewall, if you have what's called when admin enabled, what that means is someone on the wide area network. In other words, The internet, someone on the internet or on the, when can connect to your firewall and control it. [00:15:51] This is, as you can imagine, a very big thing, and it is something that we cover in one of our workshops, explained it all and all of the details and what to do, but most businesses and most people have not properly configured their firewalls. When we're talking about number one, problem, 91% of the time being an exploit against public facing applications. [00:16:18] What that means is they could very well just be trying to connect to the administrative interface on your firewall. Unfortunately, they will often offer. Change the software on your firewall. So they won't just reconfigure. They'll just change it entirely. And they'll do all kinds of evil things. Again, we're not going to get into all of that and what to look for and what can happen. [00:16:44] But number one thing everybody's got to do, and I saw some stats this week as well, that made me want to bring the. Most people and most businesses about two thirds have not changed the default passwords on the hardware that they have. Now it can understand sometimes the kids confusing. No question about. [00:17:07] But if you don't change the password on something that's public facing, in other words, something that can be reached from the internet or again, the wide area network. I know there's a lot of terms for this, but something that someone else can get at from outside your network. And it's the default password like admin admin, you could be in a whole lot of. [00:17:35] So check that right now, please double check that triple check that because even if you have a router from a big internet service provider, again, like the Comcast Verizon's, et cetera of the world, they will almost always have it set up. So you can change that administrative password and Jewish. Now I, again, for clients, I have some different advice than I have for, for just regular users, but make sure you change that. [00:18:09] And here's the second part of the problem. What happens if you have a business and let's say you're not hosting your own website, like I've been doing for a couple of decades and how three 30 years, I guess now. Um, and so you've got your website hosted at some. Web height site, hosting place, you know, Gator or one eye and one eye and one or GoDaddy or whatever. [00:18:35] Okay. So, okay. That's fine. So let's not inside our network. Uh, w we don't worry about the security because that's the vendor's problem. Now we're talking about, okay, what happens. My users who need to work from home. This gets to be a very big problem for so many people, because work from home is important. [00:19:00] So what are you going to do? Well, basically in most cases, unfortunately, businesses are just exposing an application to the internet. So they might, they might. Terribly configured networks, where there is a direct connection that goes right to the files. So you connect to a port on their firewall and it immediately redirects it internally. [00:19:30] Remaps it to the file server. And some people are really, really clever. Alright. Or so they think, because what they'll do is they'll say, okay, well, you know, that, that normal port number. Okay. So I'm going to move. Port number. So you're going to connect to port 17, 17 on my firewall, and it's going to connect you to the file share on my file server so that people from home can just connect to port 17, 17, and ta-da, there are all the files and yeah, we're, we're using passwords, so it'll be okay. [00:20:06] It'll be fine. Um, but, uh, guess what it isn't for a few. Different reasons are we're going to be talking about those here in just a minute. Yeah, I want to encourage you right now. Take a minute. Go online. Craig peterson.com. You'll find lots of information there. I've got 3,500 articles, all searchable, Craig peterson.com. [00:20:32] But more importantly, make sure you sign up for my newsletter. Craig peterson.com/subscribe. So that you can keep up to date on everything that is important in all of our lives. [00:20:51] We're talking about firewalls at home at the office, what it means to have public facing services, really applications, people working from home. How can you make it easy for them and hard for the bad guy? [00:21:15] Many businesses had to quickly change the way their computers were set up because of course the lockdown and people working from home. [00:21:26] And, um, unfortunately. Many mistakes were made. And some of this, in fact, I'm going to talk a lot of this problem up to these managed services providers break, fix shops. My, my fellow information technology contractors, if you will, because they didn't know any. Most of these people have been computer people, their whole lives, right. [00:21:55] They played with PCs when they were young and they might've taken a course or two and wow. MCSC certified. Believe me, this is not something that a straight up MCSC or. And frankly, most of the it certifications can really understand or really handle the cybersecurity can be done, but there's so many things they overlook just like what I was just talking about, exposing a file server directly to the internet. [00:22:29] I mentioned, okay. While they thought it was going to be safe because there's a username and password, but there's a couple of huge problems here. Problem. Number one. When you're exposing a service to the internet, like for instance, the files server, you are exposing software that may have exploitable, but. [00:22:54] And again, going back to those stats from earlier this week, more than half of all of the systems that are out there are not patched to date. It's so bad that president Biden just ordered the federal government agencies to apply patches some as old as three years. So what happens now? Well, the bad guy scan, and guess what they found. [00:23:23] Port that you thought was just so clever because it wasn't the standard port number for that service. Maybe it's SMB or CIFS or something else. And, uh, they found it because they scan, they look, they see what the response is that tells them what type of a server sitting there. And then they try, well, let me see. [00:23:45] There's the zero day exploits, but why bother with those? Let's just start with the good old standard ones. And unfortunately, because so many machines are not patched up at all, let alone properly patched up. You, they end up getting into the machine. It's really that simple, just because it's not patched up. [00:24:08] How does that sound? Huh? Yeah, it's just plain, not patched up. It's not available for anyone to be able to use anybody to be able to access. Right. It there it's not restricted. So the passwords don't matter if you haven't patched your systems. And then the second problem is that. Are brute force attacks against so many servers out there. [00:24:36] And most of the time, what we're talking about is Microsoft, but, you know, there's the share of bugs kind of goes around, but Microsoft and really, they get nailed a lot more than most beet, mainly because they're probably the number one out there that's in use today, not in the server community, certainly, but certainly also in the. [00:24:59] It's been, you know, small businesses, that's all they know. So they just run a Microsoft server and more and more, you kind of have to run it because I, I get it. You know, there's so many apps that depend on the various functions that are provided by the active directory server at Microsoft and stuff. So we, we do that for our customers as well. [00:25:19] So are you starting to see why the brute force against a server will often get them in and the smarter guys figure out what the business is? And then they go to the dark web and they look up those business emails. Addresses that they have that have been stolen along with the passwords that were used. [00:25:43] That's why we keep saying, use a different password on every site because that stolen password now. Is going to be tried against your service, your, your file server. That might be there. You might be trying to have a VPN service that the people are VPN in from home. You might have remote desktop, which has been. [00:26:08] Abject failure when it comes to cybersecurity, it's just been absolutely terrible. So you might have any of those types of things. And if they've got your email address and they've got the passwords you've used on other sites, which they've stolen and they try them, are they going to work? Odds are yes, because most people, I got another set of stats this week. [00:26:36] Most people use the same password for every site out there or every type of site. So they might get a second, most common is they use one password for all of their social media sites. They use another one for all of their banking sites. So we cover this in some depth in our bootcamp so that you understand how to do the whole password thing. [00:27:03] And what I recommend is a piece of software called one password. I don't recommend that you just use one password for everything. I was misunderstood by someone the other day. You mean just w w I use one password for everything. Yeah, you do. And then I talked to them a little bit more because I thought that was an odd question. [00:27:24] And it turned out, he was thinking, you just have the one password, like, like, you know, P at sign SSW, zero RD. Right? You use that everywhere. No, there's a piece of software go to one password.com. That's what I recommend as a password manager. And I show you how to use that and how to use it effectively in my bootcamp. [00:27:48] Absolutely free. Just like the radio is free. I'm trying to get the information out to as many people as possible, but you gotta be on my list. Craig peterson.com. Make sure you go there. So I've explained the basics here of what happens. We have a door open or windows, open ports on our servers, on our firewalls at home. [00:28:15] And at work. So the thing to do, particularly if you're a business, but even if your home user is check that firewall configuration. And let me tell you something that probably won't come as a surprise. Most of these internet server. The providers are in the business to make as much money as possible. And cybersecurity is very much secondary. [00:28:40] They know they talk about it and they talk about software defined networks and things that sound really cool. But in reality, what they give you is. Configured very well and is going to expose you. So make sure you go in, they will set it up. For instance, if they're providing you with television services, they'll set it up so that they can just bypass your firewall and get into the cable box that they installed in your house. [00:29:09] Yeah. Obviously that's not something they should be doing because now they are opening you up to attack. What happens when there's a cybersecurity problem with the cable box? We've seen this problem too, with television vendors where they poke a hole out through your firewall so that they can then gather statistics and do firmer updates and everything else. [00:29:34] It's insane. It really is. These vendors are not thinking about you. They're not thinking about the consequences. It is a very, very sad situation, but now you know what to do and how to do it. Okay. I explained today, firewalls. I explained router. I explained ports, which should be open, which should not be open. [00:29:58] And the reasons why I even mentioned passwords, I get into that in a lot of detail in my bootcamp, Craig peterson.com to get on that waiting list. Craig peterson.com, just subscribe and you'll be kept up to date. [00:30:14] There has been a whole lot of discussion lately about Metta. You might've heard. In fact, you probably did that. Facebook changed its name to Metta and they're aiming for something called the metaverse. So what is it exactly and what's it going to do for or to you? [00:30:32] The metaverse oh my gosh. I had a great discussion this week about the metaverse this came out in, um, and originally anyways, in this novel called the what was it now? [00:30:47] A snow crash. That's what it was 1992, Neil. Stevenson or Steffenson. I'm not sure how he pronounces it, but in this book, which was a cyberpunk model and I've, I've always thought cyber punk was cool. Uh, is the metal versus an imaginary place that's made available to the public over the world wide fiber optics network. [00:31:13] And it's projected onto virtual reality goggles sound familiar yet. And in the. You can build a buildings park signs as well as things that do not exist. In reality, such as vast hovering overhead light show, special neighborhoods were three where the rules of three-dimensional spacetime are ignored and free combat zones where people can go hunt and kill each other. [00:31:42] Great article about this in ARS Technica this week. And, uh, that was a little quote from the book and from the article. Phenomenal idea. Well, if you have read or seen the movie ready player one, and I have seen the movie, but a friend of mine this week said the book is so much better. So I'm going to have to read that book, ready player one. [00:32:06] But in it, you have these people living in. Dystopian future where everything is badly worn down, the mega cities, people building on top of each other and they get their entertainment and relaxation and even make money in. Prison time by being inside this virtual world, they can go anywhere, do anything and play games, or just have fun. [00:32:39] One of the vendors that we work with at my company mainstream has this kind of a virtual reality thing for. I kind of a summit, so people can go and watch this presentation and I think it's stupid, but they, you walk in. And it's, uh, this is just on a screen. They're not using like those Oculus 3d graph glasses, but you walk into an auditorium. [00:33:13] So you've got to make your little avatar walked on. Dun dun, dun dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, and then go to an empty seat. And then you have to make your avatar sit down. Right? I, I have never played a game like this. I never played second life. Never any of that sort of thing. It was kind of crazy to me. And then I was doing a presentation, so I had to go Dundon then, then, then the, up onto the rostrum there and stand behind the podium and, and then put my slides up on this virtual screen. [00:33:49] It was ridiculous. I have a full television production studio here in my, in my lab. Right. And that's, this is where I do the radio show. This is where I do my television appearances. This is where I do pretty much everything. Right. And so what I can do is I can split screen with my face, with the desktop. [00:34:12] You can see my desktop, I can draw on it, circle things, highlight things or whatever I want to do. Right. But no, no, no, no. I was in their virtual reality. And so all I could do is. I have the slides come up. In fact, I had prepared beforehand, pre-taped it? A, the whole presentation, but I couldn't play that video. [00:34:37] No, no, no. I had to show a slide deck, you know, death by PowerPoint. I'm sure you've been there before. It's very, very frustrating in case you can tell for me, well, we've seen this type of thing. I mentioned some of the things like that. I'm in second life. I'm sure you've heard of that before. Sims is another one you've probably heard of before. [00:35:01] These types of semi metaverses have been around a very long time. And, and in fact, all the way on back to the nineties is Habbo hotel. G I don't know if you ever heard of that thing, but it was non-line gaming and social space. I helped to develop one for a client of mine back in the early nineties. [00:35:23] Didn't really go very far. I think it was ahead of its time. It's it's interesting right now, enter. Mark Zuckerberg. Do you remember a few years ago, mark Zuckerberg had a presentation. He was going to make this huge announcement, right? They bought Oculus. What was it? It was like crazy amount of money. And then he came in the back of the hall. [00:35:50] And nobody noticed he walked all the way up to the front and nobody even saw him because they were all wearing these 3d glasses. And of course, today they are huge. They are awkward and they don't look that great, the pictures inside, but the idea is you can move your head around and the figures move as your head moves, almost like you're in the real world. [00:36:13] And that's kind of cool and people thought it was kind of cool and they didn't see Zuckerberg because they all had these things on. And the inside was playing a little presentation about what Facebook was going to do with Oculus. Well, they just killed off the Oculus name anyways here a couple of weeks ago, over at Facebook about the same time that got rid of the Facebook name and went to meta. [00:36:39] The Facebook product is so-called Facebook and it appears what they are going to be doing is taking the concept of a metaverse much, much further than anyone has ever taken it before. They're planning on there's speculation here. Okay. So, you know, don't obviously I don't get invested. I don't give investment advice, investment advice. [00:37:10] Um, but I do talk about technology and, uh, I've been usually five to 10 years. I had so take that as well. They as the grain of salt, but I think what they're planning on doing is Facebook wants to become the foundation for Mehta versus think about things like world of Warcraft, where you've got the. Gain that people are playing. [00:37:39] And it's a virtual reality, basically, right? It might be two D, but some of it's moving into the three-dimensional world. Other games like Minecraft and roadblocks, they have some pretty simple building blocks that people can use network effects and play your creativity to make your little world and the ability. [00:38:04] To exchange and or sell your virtual property. That's where I think Mr. Zuckerberg is getting really interested now because if they can build the platform that everybody else the wants to have a virtual world builds their virtual world on top of. Man, do they have a moneymaker? Now? People like me, we're going to look at this and just poo poo it. [00:38:35] I I'm sure I'm absolutely sure, because it will be another 20 years before you really think it's. You know, some of these scifi shows have talked about it. You know, you can feel someone touching you, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. That's going to be very crude for a very long time. And now CGI is pretty good. [00:38:57] Yeah. You watch the movies. CGI is great, but that takes weeks worth of rendering time on huge farms, clusters of servers. So it's going to take quite a while. Looking at the normal advancement of technology before this really becomes real. Now there have also been us court cases over who owns what in bad happened with Eve online. [00:39:28] Second life where disagreements over player ownership of the virtual land created by the publisher, which was Linden labs. When. And I've also mentioned in the past how our friends over at the IRS have tried to tax some of the land that you own inside these virtual worlds. So ownership, do you really own it? [00:39:55] Does it really exist? What would non fungible tokens maybe it does. And these non fungible tokens are. Basically just a check, some verification, I'm really oversimplifying of some sort of a digital something rather lately. And initially it was mostly pictures. And so you had a picture of something and you owned that and you could prove it because of the blockchain behind it. [00:40:27] But I think this is where he's really interested because if he can build the base platform. Let the developers come up with the rules of what's it called it a game and come up with what the properties look like and how people can trade them and sell them and what kind of upgrades they can get. Right. [00:40:48] So let's nothing Zuckerberg has to worry about. Uh, Metta or Zuckerberg then worries about, okay. So how do we collect money for these? How do we check with the transactions? Uh, somebody wants to buy those sort of Damocles. How does that transaction work and how do we Facebook Metta? How do we get a slice of the act? [00:41:16] You got to believe that that's where things are going. And if they have the ability to make this base platform and be able to take characters from one part of a developer to another part of the developer, you could have worlds where Gandalf might be fighting bugs bunny. Right? Interesting. Interesting and Warner brothers, all these movie companies would probably be coming out with complete virtual reality. [00:41:49] So when you're watching James Bond, you're not just watching James Bond, you can look around, you can see what's happening. People sneaking up behind. And ultimately you could be James Bond, but that's decades away. I think a good 20 years. All right, everybody. Thanks for sticking around here. Make sure you go online. [00:42:11] Craig peterson.com/subscribe. Get my weekly newsletter. Find out about these free boot camps and other things that I have. So we can keep you up to date and keep you safe. [00:42:25] We already talked about Metta and their name, change the metaverse, but there's something else. Facebook did this last week that surprised a lot of users, something they started in 2010, but has been controversial ever since. [00:42:41] We had a pretty big announcement, frankly, this last week from our friends over at Facebook, not the one where they change their name and the. [00:42:51] Basically trying to create a metaverse platform. That's going to be the one platform that rules the world. Although those are my words by the way. But Facebook has announced plans now to shut down a decade old. Facial recognition system this month. We'll see what they do with this. If they follow through entirely, but they're planning on deleting over 1 billion faces that they have already gone through and analyzed. [00:43:26] You might remember. In 2010, Facebook had a brand new feature. It started announcing, Hey, did you know that so-and-so just posted your picture? Is this you? Is this your friend, is this sewn? So do you remember all of those questions? If you're a Facebook user back in the day? Well, they were automatically identifying people who appeared in digital photos and suggested that users or users tagged them with a click we're going to get to and admitted here. [00:43:57] Uh, and of course that then linked the Facebook account for. The picture that you tagged to the images and let that person know. And of course Facebook's ultimate goal is to get you to stay on long, as long online, as long as possible. Because if you're online, you are going to be looking at ads that are aimed primarily at. [00:44:18] Well, facial recognition has been a problem. We've seen it a worldwide. I just read through a restatement from the electronic frontier foundation, talking about facial recognition and the problems with it, how some people have been arrested based on facial recognition and held for over a day. We'll have cases where the police use to kind of a crummy photograph of them from a surveillance video sometimes also from a police car, in some areas, the police cars are continually taking video and uploading it to the internet, looking for things like license plates, to see if a car. [00:45:00] Parking ticket that hasn't been paid or it hasn't paid us registration all the way through looking at faces, who is this person? And some in law enforcement have kind of thought it would be great to have kind of like Robocop. You remember Robocop, not the ed 2 0 9. There was also in that movie. That's also very scary, but when they look at someone who's on a street at autonomous. [00:45:24] Pops up in their glasses, who it is, any criminal record, if there any sort of a threat to et cetera. And I can understand that from the policemen standpoint. And I interviewed out at the consumer electronic show, a manufacturer of. That technology, it was kind of big and bulky at the time. This was probably about six or eight years ago, but nowadays you're talking about something that's kind of Google glass size, although that's kind of gone by the wayside too. [00:45:54] There are others that are out there that you. Facial recognition. Technology has really advanced in its ability to identify people, but you still get false positives and false negatives. And that's where part of the problem becomes from they have been taking and they been private companies primarily, but also some government agencies they've been taking pictures from. [00:46:21] They can find them. We've talked about Clearview AI before this is a company that literally stole pitchers, that it could get off the internet. They scan through Facebook, Instagram, everywhere. They could find faces and they tied it all back in. They did facial recognition. On all of those photos that they had taken and then sold the data to law enforcement agencies. [00:46:49] There's an app you can get from Clearview AI. That runs on your smartphone and you can take a picture of someone in the street, clear view. AI will run that face through their database and we'll tell you who it is, what their, what their background is, where their LinkedIn page is their Facebook page, wherever it found them online. [00:47:13] Basically what they've been doing. Now Clearview had a problem here this last couple of weeks because the Australian government ordered them to delete all facial recognition, data belonging, to anyone that lives. In Australia. Now that's going to be a bit of a problem for clear view, because it's hard to identify exactly where people live just based on a photograph. [00:47:40] And the United Kingdom is also considering doing this exact same thing. Now, clear views have been sued. They violated the terms of service from Facebook and some of these other sites that I mentioned, but they did it anyway. And clear view was. To destroy all the facial images and facial templates they had retrieved about any Australian. [00:48:08] I think that's probably a pretty good idea. I don't like the idea of this data being out there. Well, if your password is stolen and we're going to be talking about that in our bootcamp, coming up here in a couple of weeks about how to determine if your username or your password is stolen. But, uh, and of course, if you want to get that. [00:48:29] Bootcamp and go to that. There's no charge for it, but you have to know about it. And the only way is to sign up. You have to make sure you're on my email list@craigpeterson.com. But what happens when your email address is stolen or your password, or both are stolen from a web. Oh, typically they end up on the dark web. [00:48:50] They sell personal identification for very little money. In some cases it's only a few dollars per thousand people's identities. It is absolutely crazy. So the bad guys are looking for that information, but you can change your password. You can change your email address, but if your facial information is stolen, Can't change your face. [00:49:18] If your eye print is stolen, you can't change your eye. I have a friend who's pretty excited because he got to go right through the security at the airport ever so quickly. Cause all they had to do was scan his eyeball. Well, that data is valuable data because it cannot be changed. And it can, in some cases be replicated. [00:49:41] In fact, the department of Homeland security and the transportation safety administration had the database of face print stolen from them in 2019. To about 200,000 people's identities were stolen, the face sprints. It's just absolutely crazy. And this was some, a vendor of us customs and border protection. [00:50:05] And it, it, you can't write down to it. I read the detailed report on it just now. And the report that came out of the federal government said, well, it went to a contractor who. Took the data, all of the face prints off site over to their own site. And it wasn't encrypted when they took it over there. But it does mention that it was taken from an un-encrypted system at customs and border protection. [00:50:34] So wait a minute. Now you're blaming the contractor that you hired because it wasn't encrypted and yet you didn't encrypt it yourself either. I, you know, I guess that kind of goes around, but they want to. They want your biometric information just as much as they want anything else. Think about your phones. [00:50:53] Nowadays, apple has done a very good job with the biometrics and the fingerprints and making sure that that information is only ever stored on the phone. It never goes to apple, never leaves the phone it's in what apple calls, the secure long term. And if you mess with it at all, it destroys itself, which is part of the problem with replacing a cracked screen yourself on an iPhone, because you're going to disturb that secure enclave and the phone will no longer work. [00:51:24] That is not true when it comes to many other devices, including most of your Android phones that are out there. It is. So if the bad guys have. Your face print, they, and they can create 3d models that can and do in fact, go ahead and fool it into letting you in that that's information they want. So why are we allowing these companies to like clear view AI? [00:51:52] And others to buy our driver's license photos to the federal government, to also by the way, by our driver's license photos, by them from other sites and also our passport information. It's getting kind of scary, especially when you look into. China has a social credit system. And the Biden administration has made rumblings about the same here in the U S but in China, what they're doing is they have cameras all over the place and your faces. [00:52:27] And they can identify you. So if you jaywalk, they take so many points off of your social credit. If you don't do something that they want you to do or be somewhere, they want you to be, you lose credits again, and you can gain them as well by doing various things that the government wants you to do. And. [00:52:49] And ultimately, if you don't have enough social credit, you can't even get on a train to get to work. But the real bad part are the users. This is a minority in China and China's authorities are using. Us facial recognition, technology and artificial intelligence technology. Hey, thanks Google for moving your artificial intelligence lab to China in order to control and track the users. [00:53:19] Absolutely amazing in the United States law enforcement is using this type of software to aid policing, and we've already seen problems of overreach and mistaken IRS. So Facebook to you're leading a billion of these frameworks. If you will, of people's faces biometrics. Good for them. Hopefully this will continue a tread elsewhere. [00:53:46] Well, we've talked a little bit today about firewalls, what they do, how your network is set up. If you miss that, make sure you catch up online. My podcast@craigpeterson.com, but there's a whole new term out there that is changing security. [00:54:03] It's difficult to set up a secure network. [00:54:07] Let's just say mostly secure because if there's a power plug going into it, there's probably a security issue, but it's difficult to do that. And historically, what we've done is we've segmented the networks. So we have various devices that. Maybe be a little more harmful and on one network, other devices at a different level of security and many businesses that we've worked with, we have five different networks each with its own level of secure. [00:54:38] And in order to get from one part of the network, for instance, let's say you're an accounting and you want to get to the accounting file server. We make sure your machine is allowed access at the network level. And then obviously on top of that, you've got usernames and passwords. Maybe you've got multifactor authentication or something else. [00:54:59] I'll make sense, doesn't it? Well, the new move today is to kind of move away from that somewhat. And instead of having a machine or a network have firewall rules to get to a different network or different machine within an organization. There's something called zero trust. So again, think of it. You've, you've got a network that just has salespeople on it. [00:55:25] You have another network that might have just your accounting people. Another network has your administrative people and other network has your software developers, et cetera. So all of these networks are separate from each other and they're all firewalled from each other. So that only for instance, at county people can get to the accounting server. [00:55:44] Okay, et cetera. Right? The sales guys can enter the sales data and the programmers can get at their programs. And maybe the servers that are running their virtual machines are doing testing on what was zero trust. It is substantially different. What they're doing with zero trust is assuming that you always have to be authentic. [00:56:11] So instead of traditional security, where, where you're coming from helps to determine your level of access, you are assuming that basically no units of trust. So I don't care where you're coming from. If you are on a machine in the accounting department, We want to verify a lot of other information before we grant you access. [00:56:38] So that information probably does include what network you're on. Probably does include the machine you're on, but it's going to all. You as a user. So you're going to have a username. You're going to have an ID. You're going to have a multi-factor authentication. And then we're going to know specifically what your job is and what you need to have specific access. [00:57:04] Because this follows the overall principle of least privilege to get your job done. Now you might've thought in the past that, oh my gosh, these firewalls, they're just so annoying. It's just so difficult to be able to do anything right. Well, zero trust is really going to get your attention. If that's what you've been saying. [00:57:23] But here's an example of the traditional security approach. If you're in the office, you get access to the full network. Cause that's pretty common, right? That's not what we've been doing, but that's pretty common where we have been kind of working in the middle between zero trust and this traditional you're in the office. [00:57:41] So you can potentially get it. Everything that's on the off. And if you're at home while all you have to do is access a specific portal, or as I've explained before, well, you are just connecting to an IP address in a hidden port, which won't remain hidden for. So maybe in a traditional security approach, the bouncer checks your ID. [00:58:08] You can go anywhere inside this club and it's multi floor, right. But in a zero trust approach, getting into the club, having that bouncer look at your ID is only the first check, the bartender or the waiter. They also have to check your ID before you could be served. No matter where you are in the club and that's kind of how they do it right now, though, they'll make a mark on your hand or they'll stamp it. [00:58:35] And now they know, okay, this person cannot get a drink for instance. So think of it that way, where every resource that's available inside the business independently checks whether or not you should have access to. This is the next level of security. It's something that most businesses are starting to move towards. [00:58:57] I'm talking about the bigger guys, the guys that have had to deal with cybersecurity for awhile, not just the people who have a small business, most small businesses have that flat network that. Again about right. The traditional security approach of all you're in the office. So yeah, you can get at anything. [00:59:15] It doesn't matter. And then you, you have the sales guys walking out with your client list and who knows what else is going on? Think of Ferris, Bueller, where he was updating his grades and miss days at high school, from his home computer. And you've got an idea of why you might want to secure. You are network internally because of, again, those internal threats. [00:59:40] So keep an eye out for it. If you're looking to replace your network, obviously this is something that we've had a lot of experience with. Cisco is probably the best one out there for this, but there are a few other vendors that are pretty good. If you want to drop me an email, I'll put together a list of some of the top tier zero. [01:00:02] Providers so that you can look at those. I don't have one right now, but I'd be glad to just email me M e@craigpeterson.com. We can point you in the right direction, but if you have an it person or department, or whether you outsource it to an MSP, a managed services provider, make sure you have the discussion with them about zero. [01:00:28] Now, when I'm looking at security, I'm concerned about a bunch of things. So let me tell you something that Karen and I have been working on the last, oh man, few weeks. I mentioned the boot camp earlier in the show today. And one of the things that we're going to do for those people that attend the bootcamp is I think incredible. [01:00:49] This has taken Karen so much time to dig up. Once she's done is she's worked with me to figure out what are the things that you need to keep tabs on. Now, again, this is aimed primarily at businesses, but let me tell you, this is going to be great for home users as well. And we've put together this list of what you should be doing. [01:01:15] About cybersecurity every week. And in fact, a couple of things that are daily, but every week, every month, every quarter, every six months and every year, it's a full checklist. So you can take this and sit down with it and, you know, okay. So I have to do these things this week and this isn't. Response to anything in particular, it does meet most requirements, but frankly, it's something that every business should be doing when it comes to the cybersecurity. [01:01:53] It includes things like passwords. Are they being done? Right? Did you do some training with your employees on fishing or a few other topics all the way on down to make sure you got some canned air and blew out the fan? In your workstations, you'd be amazed at how dirty they get. And he is the enemy of computers that makes them just fail much, much faster than, than 82, same thing with server. [01:02:22] So it is everything. It is a lot of pages and it is just check she'd made it nice and big. Right. So even I can read it. But it's little check marks that you can mark on doing while you're going through it. So we're doing some more work on that. She's got the first couple of iterations done. We're going to do a couple more, make sure it is completely what you would need in order to help keep your cyber security in. [01:02:50] But the only way you're going to get it is if you are in the BR the bootcamp absolutely free. So it was this list, or of course you won't find out unless you are on my email list. Craig Peterson.com/subscribe. [01:03:06] One of the questions I get asked pretty frequently has to do with artificial intelligence and robots. Where are we going? What are we going to see first? What is the technology that's first going to get into our businesses and our homes. [01:03:22] Artificial intelligence is something that isn't even very well-defined there's machine learning and there's artificial intelligence. [01:03:33] Some people put machine learning as a subset of artificial intelligence. Other people kind of mess around with it and do it the other way. I tend to think that artificial intelligence is kind of the top of the heap, if you will. And that machine learning is a little bit further down because machines can be programmed to learn. [01:03:54] For instance, look at your robot, your eye robot cleans the floor, cleans the carpet. It moves around. It has sensors and it learned, Hey, I have to turn here. Now. I robot is actually pretty much randomly drew. But there are some other little vacuum robots that, that do learn the makeup of your house. The reason for the randomization is while chairs move people, move things, move. [01:04:22] So trying to count on the house, being exactly the same every time isn't isn't exactly right. Uh, by the way, a lot of those little vacuums that are running around are also sending data about your house, up to the manufacturer in the. So they often will know how big the house is. They know where it's located because you're using the app for their robot. [01:04:47] And that, of course it has access to GPS, et cetera, et cetera. Right. But where are we going? Obviously, the little by robot, the little vacuum does not need much intelligence to do what it's doing, but one of the pursuits that we've had for. Really since the late nineties for 20, 25 years are what are called follower robots. [01:05:13] And that's when I think we're going to start seeing much more frequently, it's going to be kind of the first, um, I called it machine learning. They call it artificial intelligence who you really could argue either one of them, but there's a little device called a Piaggio fast forward. And it is really kind of cool. [01:05:34] Think of it almost like R2D2 or BB eight from star wars following you around. It's frankly, a little hard to do. And I want to point out right now, a robot that came out, I think it was last year from Amazon is called the Astro robot. And you might remember Astro from the Jetsons and. This little robot was available in limited quantities. [01:06:01] I'm looking at a picture of it right now. It, frankly, Astro is quite cute. It's got two front wheels, one little toggle wheel in the back. It's got cameras. It has a display that kind of makes it look like kids are face, has got two eyeballs on them. And the main idea behind this robot is that it will. [01:06:23] Provide some protection for your home. So it has a telescoping camera and sensor that goes up out of its head up fairly high, probably about three or four feet up looking at this picture. And it walks around your one rolls around your home, scanning for things that are out of the normal listening for things like windows breaking there, there's all kinds of security. [01:06:50] That's rolled into some of these. But it is a robot and it is kind of cool, but it's not great. It's not absolutely fantastic. Amazon's dubbing the technology it's using for Astro intelligent motion. So it's using location and mapping data to make sure that Astro. Gets around without crashing into things. [01:07:18] Unlike that little vacuum cleaner that you have, because if someone loves something on the floor that wasn't there before, they don't want to run over it, they don't want to cause harm. They don't want to run into your cats and dogs. And oh my maybe lions and bears too. But, uh, they're also using this computer vision technology called visual ID and that is used. [01:07:41] With facial recognition, drum roll, please, to recognize specific members of the family. So it's kind of like the dog right in the house. It's sitting there barking until it recognizes who you are, but Astro, in this case, Recognizes you and then provide you with messages and reminders can even bring you the remote or something else and you just drop it in the bin and off it goes. [01:08:08] But what I am looking at now with this Piaggio fast forward, you might want to look it up online, cause it's really. Cool is it does the following, like we've talked about here following you around and doing things, but it is really designed to change how people and goods are moving around. So there's a couple of cool technologies along this line as well. [01:08:35] That it's not, aren't just these little small things. You might've seen. Robots delivery robots. The Domino's for instance, has been working on there's another real cool one out there called a bird. And this is an autonomous driving power. Basically. It's a kind of a four wheel ATV and it's designed to move between the rows of fruit orchards in California or other places. [01:09:01] So what you do to train this borough robot is you press a follow button on it. You start walking around the field or wherever you want it to go. It's using, uh, some basic technology to follow you, cameras and computer vision, and it's recording it with GPS and it memorizes the route at that point. Now it can ferry all of your goods. [01:09:29] Around that path and communicate the path by the way to other burrow robots. So if you're out doing harvesting or whether it's apples out in the east coast, or maybe as I said out in California, you've got it. Helping you with some of the fruit orchards. It's amazing. So this is going to be something that is going to save a lot of time and money, these things, by the way, way up to 500 pounds and it can carry as much as a half a ton. [01:09:58] You might've seen some of the devices also from a company down in Boston, and I have thought that they were kind of creepy when, when you look at it, but the company's called Boston dynamics and. They were just bought, I think it was Hondai the bought them trying to remember. And, uh, anyway, These are kind of, they have robots that kind of look like a dog and they have other robots that kind of look like a human and they can do a lot of different chores. [01:10:33] The military has used them as have others to haul stuff. This one, this is like the little dog, it has four legs. So unlike a lot of these other robots that are on wheels, this thing can go over very, very. Terrain it can self write, et cetera. And they're also using them for things like loading trucks and moving things around, um, kind of think of Ripley again, another science fiction tie, uh, where she's loading the cargo in the bay of that spaceship. [01:11:05] And she is inside a machine. That's actually doing all of that heavy lifting now. Today, the technology, we have a can do all of that for us. So it is cool. Uh, I get kind of concerned when I see some of these things. Military robots are my favorite, especially when we're talking about artificial intelligence, but expect the first thing for these to be doing is to be almost like a companion, helping us carry things around, go fetch things for us and in the business space. [01:11:40] Go ahead and load up those trucks and haul that heavy stuff. So people aren't hurting their backs. Pretty darn cool. Hey, I want to remind you if you would like to get some of the free training or you want some help with something the best place to start is Craig peterson.com. And if you want professional help, well, not the shrink type, but with cyber security. [01:12:06] email me M E at Craig peterson.com. [01:12:10] Just in time for the holidays, we have another scam out there and this one is really rather clever and is fooling a lot of people and is costing them, frankly, a whole lot of money. [01:12:26] This is a very big cyber problem because it has been very effective. And although there have been efforts in place to try and stop it, they've still been able to kind of get ahead of it. There's a great article on vice that's in this week's newsletter. In my show notes up on the website and it is talking about a call that came in to one of the writers, Lorenzo, B cherry, um, probably completely messy and that name up, but the call came in from. [01:13:03] Supposedly right. Paid pals, uh, fraud prevention system. Someone apparently had tried to use his PayPal account to spend $58 and 82 cents. According to the automated voice on the line, PayPal needed to verify my identity to block the transfer. And here's a quote from the call, uh, in order to secure your account, please enter the code we have sent to your mobile device. [01:13:32] Now the voice said PayPal, sometimes texts, users, a code in order to protect their account. You know, I've said many times don't use SMS, right? Text messages for multi-factor authentication. There are much better ways to do it. Uh, after entering a string of six digits, the voice said, thank you. Your account has been secured and this request has been blocked. [01:13:57] Quote, again, don't worry. If any payment has been charged your account, we will refund it within 24 to 48 hours. Your reference ID is 1 5 4 9 9 2 6. You may now hang up, but this call was actually. Hacker they're using a type of bot is what they're called. These are these automated robotic response systems that just dramatically streamlined the process for the hackers to gain access into your account. [01:14:31] Particularly when you have multi-factor authentication codes where you're using. An SMS messages, but it also works for other types of one-time passwords. For instance, I suggest to everybody and we use these with our clients that they should use something called one password.com. That's really you'll find them online. [01:14:54] And one password.com allows you to use and create one time password, same thing with Google authenticator, same thing with Microsoft authenticator, they all have one-time password. So if a bad guy has found your email address and has found your password online in one of these hacks, how can they possibly get into your PayPal account or Amazon or Coinbase or apple pay or. [01:15:26] Because you've got a one time password set up or SMS, right? Multifactor authentication of some sort. Well they're full and people and absolute victims. Here's what's happening. Th this bot by the way, is great for bad guys that don't have social engineering skills, social engineering skills, or when someone calls up and says, hi, I'm from it. [01:15:51] And there's a problem. And we're going to be doing an upgrade on your Microsoft word account this weekend because of a bug or a security vulnerability. So what, what I need from you is I need to know what username you're normally using so that I can upgrade the right. So we don't, it doesn't cost us a whole bunch by upgrading accounts that aren't being used. [01:16:15] So once the account name that you use on the computer and what's the password, so we can get in and test it afterwards, that's a social engineering type attack. That's where someone calls on the phone, those tend to be pretty effective. But how about if you don't speak English very well? At all frankly, or if you're not good at tricking people by talking to them, well, this one is really great. [01:16:44] Cause these bots only cost a few hundred bucks and anybody can get started using these bots to get around multi-factor authentication. See, here's how it works. In order to break into someone's account, they need your username, email address and password. Right? Well, I already said. Much many of those have been stolen. [01:17:07] And in our boot camp coming up in a few weeks, we're going to go through how you can find out if your username has been stolen and has been posted on the dark web and same thing for your password. Right? So that's going to be part of the. Coming up that I'll announce in the newsletter. Once we finished getting everything already for you guys, they also go ahead and buy what are called bank logs, which are login details from spammers who have already tricked you into giving away some of this information. [01:17:41] But what if you have multi-factor authentication enabled something I'm always talking about, always telling you to do. Well, these bots work with platforms like Twilio, for instance, uh, and they are using other things as well, like slack, et cetera. And all the bad guy has to do with that point is going. [01:18:07] And, uh, say, they're trying to break into your account right now. So they're going to, let's get really, really specific TD bank. That's where my daughter works. So let's say you have a TD bank account. And the hacker has a good idea that you have a TD bank account knows it because they entered in your username and password and TD bank was letting them in. [01:18:32] But TD bank sent you a text message with that six character code, right? It's usually digits. It's usually a number. So what happens then? So the bad guys says, okay, so it's asking me for this six digit SMS

The Solarpreneur
Running a $116M Solar Company (then starting again from scratch!) - Jerry Fussell

The Solarpreneur

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 12, 2021 85:10


DOWNLOAD SOLCIETY APP NOW! Speaker 1 (00:00:03):Welcome to the Solarpreneur podcast, where we teach you to take your solar business to the next level. My name is Taylor Armstrong and I went from $50 in my bank account and struggling for groceries to closing 150 deals in a year and cracking the code on why sales reps fail. I teach you to avoid the mistakes I made and bringing the top solar dogs, the industry to let you in on the secrets of generating more leads, falling up like a pro and closing more deals. What is a Solarpreneur you might ask a Solarpreneur is a new breed of solar pro that is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve mastery and you are about to become one.Speaker 2 (00:00:41):What's going on Solarpreneurs? We have another fantastic episode and we alive here in Las Vegas, Nevada here in, uh, a man of the hour, his mansion here, just hanging out. So we've got Mr. Jerry Fussell on the show, Jerry. Thanks for coming on with us today.Speaker 3 (00:00:57):Yeah. Thanks for driving up too. I appreciate it. It's how far from San Diego? It's like five hours. Five hours. Yeah. So thanks man, for coming up and hanging out. Glad to have you here at the house. And, uh, thanks for jumping on a podcast with me, man.Speaker 2 (00:01:09):Yeah. I love it. And know Jerry has been treating me to pop tarts and a sandwich. Isn't all, all the pizza I can handle here. So, Hey man,Speaker 3 (00:01:18):It's definitely a house that we house door knockers a lot because pizza and Pop-Tarts and sandwiches that'sSpeaker 2 (00:01:26):Okay. I had more, more food than the first door knocking the house I was in. That's true. All we had was eggs. Pretty much.Speaker 3 (00:01:32):We have a lot of those too. Okay.Speaker 2 (00:01:33):So they got it all, but I know it's been an awesome time here, so yeah, we'd been able to shoot some content and just kind of hang out here with Jerry and his guys. And, um, and the other big announcement we have before we kinda jump into things here is, um, Jerry, he, with his company Pi Syndicate, they are the first ever sponsors of the Solarpreneur podcasts. So, uh we're yeah, I'm happy about it. And we're going to let Jerry talk a little bit about that and then also is partnering on it, but, um, just like the summary of it, they are a, well, I guess you can say, well, it's just a summarized version. Do you want to tell our listeners what pipes in the syndicate is real quick?Speaker 3 (00:02:12):Yeah. Yeah. So Pi Syndicate is more of a supportive kind of mastermind. Um, we didn't start a truly make money. I already have some successful solar companies. My, one of my partners, Mikey, Lucas and Austin already have successful businesses. The reason why we started it is because we realized that about 85% of the guys in the industry that are top earners. So the guy's making, you know, over $150,000 a year, ended up leaving the industry and they have no money. They don't own any real estate. They don't have any money in savings. And about half of them owe money to the IRS. So when we talk about why we work, you know, it's a fun job going door to door, selling stuff. There's a ton of reasons why we all work, but when it comes down to it, if it didn't actually pay us any money, we would all stop.Speaker 3 (00:02:57):And that's eventually what happens is guys get burnt out because the money is not, not good enough to overcome the fact that they owe money on taxes or that they haven't really accumulated any wealth. And it's just, you know, just like you and I, we both probably hopped around to different houses. You know, door-knocking across the country, it's not indicative of saving money. It means that we go buy a BMW when we get enough money or we, we go out to fancy dinners or whatever, we're going to spend the money on. Or we buy our wife a $20,000 wedding ring when we propose because we're making money and guys, uh, leave the industry. Eventually majority of people end up not door knocking forever. Some of us love it. Some of us love it for five years and it's time to move on. And the sad thing for us is when they do move on, they put a lot of sweat and work into the job and they leave the industry with nothing to show for it.Speaker 3 (00:03:47):And these are guys making the top one, 2% of income earners in the entire country, and they're not having any money in savings and investments. And so that's, our mission is to change that we want to, within five years of working in the solar industry, have a plan for retirement in place where a guy can walk away from the door to door, industry, Copia, dentist, whatever he wants to do, and still have a substantial financial portfolio with investing and savings and emergency funds and all the things you need. Also a credit score, enough income to buy your first house. You know, all the things that companies don't really educate their, uh, door knockers on and their sales guys on is really the gap that we fill within the industry. We're kind of selective, but at the end of the day, we want to hang out with cool people that are knocking doors.Speaker 3 (00:04:32):It's just the coolest, single job to meet people that live differently, right. That wake up every day, excited to go to work. Cause if you don't, you quit within three months, probably. So if you're there a couple of years and you're a top earner, you're a guy want to hang out with and be around. And so that's what the mastermind is about is hanging out and being together. The reason I'm so excited to sponsor the podcast is because we feel like you're adding value. Whether it be a new guy that's 30 days in the industry, or maybe just thinking about going into solar, I've heard guys tell me that they've listened to your podcast to make a decision, even to accept a job in the solar industry, which is really cool. But then I would say your normal audience is one of two things, either kind of new to solar.Speaker 3 (00:05:16):And they're looking to see what podcasts are out there. And then the other one, which is strange is like the really seasoned guys like me that just want to hear good conversations with guys that are still in the field door knocking. Part of the reason why I respect you so much is because not only do you do a podcast, but you're still out door knocking virtually every day. So the content is fresh. It's, it's exactly what's going on to help you make money. And when you have guests on the conversations you have with them, um, definitely flow very well because you're doing the same job as them. So it's real life questions. It's real life answers about how to make more money, how to be more consistent in solar. And that's what we really preach is consistency and hard work. And that's the same thing.Speaker 3 (00:05:56):The podcast help brings people that listen to it. So we are super pumped to be a sponsor. And we look forward to being a sponsor for years to come and all the success in the world. We know you're going to hit 500 listeners, um, uh, 500,500,000 listeners. Uh, pretty soon as our goal has a sponsor. So we're going to be boosting some of the marketing and stuff to help you get there because literally everyone in solar right now, everyone in door to door needs to be listening to a mentor, tell them how to do their job better. And we feel like you're a great guy to do that for us.Speaker 2 (00:06:26):I love that. Appreciate that, Jerry. Absolutely man. And yeah, no, it goes without saying too, it's like you were saying so many guys just get out of this and reminds me of the NFL or something. We've all heard like guys in the NFL. I think I heard a stat that like, I don't know some crazy number of them are broke within a couple of years after they can't get out of the NFL. And I feel like door to door is very similar in that guy is making insane amounts of money knocking doors, but let's be honest. We're probably not all going to be doing this stower, you know, retirement age. No. So that's, what's so cool about what you're doing with Pi Syndicate is you're teaching guys how to really hang on to that money and turn that money into future investments in keep a hold of it. Because a lot of people that aren't, you know, super smart with itSpeaker 3 (00:07:08):And, you know, to be clear, um, I wasn't super smart with it either. I started out door to door when I was 19 selling, um, cable, internet door to door and it only paid $30 a sale or something like that. But you could go out and sell 10 of them a day. It's still really good money. And then I became a regional manager and started to make even better money. And, you know, a few hundred thousand dollars was flowing in and I was making all this money. And um, then 26 years old came around. I had my first child and, uh, talking with my wife, I decided to go out and get a real job. I had been in door-to-door for about six years was killing it, making hundreds of thousands dollars a year. I had literally had about a million dollar net worth. And I thought I was doing awesome.Speaker 3 (00:07:51):Right? And then I decided, well, I really want to do something. So I got a job at a children's home. I was working on a college degree and within a year I was completely broke. Um, just completely devastatingly broke, you know, eating ramen noodles again, I'm like, dude, I have a professional college level job. And now me and my wife, uh, are back to eating beans and rice. And we're like, is this what real life is supposed to be? But this is what everyone tells you to go. Do you know what I mean? But what happened is I was living a lifestyle based on being a door to door guy and not everyone stays at door to door guy forever. And so that transition for me was extremely difficult when I realized that I, I thought I want to do something out of it. I thought I wanted a real job, um, that everyone talks about.Speaker 3 (00:08:35):And I'm so glad that I found my way back. And so the first time I engaged with a publisher to write a book, I thought, for sure, my book's title was going to be millionaire by 25 and broke by 26. Um, to really explain why to manage your money better, how to take care of your money. Cause it was a hard life lesson, but it's almost identical to the majority of guys in the door to door industry. And we're not talking about the guy that makes it 30 days and quits. We're talking about guys that are making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, selling solar pest control roofing. Um, they're not going to last forever. They always think that they want to go do something else. And at, at that point, I don't know of a single another occupation without like being a brain surgeon that you can go and make 300 K a year.Speaker 3 (00:09:20):Like it's just not going to happen. Maybe over 30 years of building it up, even being on wall street, building up, being with a trading company or something like that, you can get there, you know, over years of dedication and working hard with your clients, maybe insurance, you know, there's some things that you can build up this business and make hundreds of thousands dollars, but there's nothing I can think of that you can leave door to door, knowing nothing about anything besides sales and make 300 K year. So there's always going to be this turmoil in your life where you decide to get out of sales. And for me it was, you know, I didn't want to work after five o'clock. I wanted to go home at five, o'clock have dinner with my family. I thought that was the American dream, you know, to have, uh, a normal job.Speaker 3 (00:10:00):I'd get off, go home, eat dinner, have a dog, walk the dog. And uh, I learned very quickly over about a year eating beans that, uh, the American dream wasn't so fun. And I decided to go back to work. But I, at the same time realized there's guys that are not going to decide to go back to work. There's going to be guys that are super happy to make 50 to a hundred thousand dollars a year, but their lifestyle is going to have to change. And just like the NFL players, it was hard for me to adapt my lifestyle to the lower income. So when my wife wanted to go out for anniversary, we still spent $250 on dinner. You know, we still bought, you know, $200 shoes instead of $50 shoes. Like all the things that we had trained ourselves to budget for were all incorrect.Speaker 3 (00:10:43):And we had never had to live on a budget being 21 years old and making 200 grand a year. You don't really have to budget. You just spend your money on whatever you want. And then you're like, oh man, I ran out of money. I need to go knock more doors. And you just can't keep the money coming in. Um, it's not a very smart way longterm to live. So my goal is to get with people that are 18, 19 25, really, you could be 35 and this is the first time you're in door to door. And you're like, this is a lot of money. Those are the guys that we want to help. And they're the same audience that you're trying to help too. So I think there's a lot of alignment there just helping guys get to that next level. So we're excited to help them for that.Speaker 2 (00:11:19):I love that. And yeah, we've had a couple of finance guys and things like that. Come on. But yeah, this is kind of the first, um, you're the first people I've seen really put together kind of mastermind style and help people at this level, which is awesome. So that's why,Speaker 3 (00:11:34):You know, yeah. And the whole thing, the whole thing about Pi Syndicate is it's sharing a lot of the resources for my company, but, you know, we made last year was 151 million. And so the revenue is very large, but then that means I spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on legal, on CPAs and advisors. You know, I spent $400,000 last year on mastermind groups. Um, you guys don't have the resource to do that. You're doing really good Taylor, you're killing it. You're in the top of the industry. You're still not going to go out and drop a hundred thousand dollar retainer on an attorney cause you don't need it. Right. It just doesn't make any sense. Your wife would be like, are we getting a divorce? Why do you need the a hundred thousand dollars retainer? Um, so it's just something that you don't think you need until you need it.Speaker 3 (00:12:15):Right? And so it's much better to have my legal team on standby to have our CPAs answer really hard questions to have my tax strategies that you normally only invest in. If you make, you know, $10 million in profit a year or more, uh, be available to you guys. And we do it in a mastermind setting so that we can share the knowledge, um, pretty openly, but with only guys that we want to hang out with, right? There's some guys in masterminds, I'm sure you've been to events and things. You're like, I'd rather not go hang out with a guy afterwards. So we definitely want to make it a group of guys where we stay together for a really long time. And then we want to see your businesses grow, you know? And, um, I would love to see your podcast. I was saying 500,000 listeners earlier.Speaker 3 (00:12:56):I'm not joking about that. I'd love to see your podcast expand to grow. You know, when people talk about the solar guys are listening on podcasts, that should be at my let you know, Jordan Bell Ford and Taylor Armstrong like that. I mean, that's really, when it comes to selling, how many viewers do you need to have listening? And because it's a lot of valuable things, I literally think anyone not listening to your podcast is probably selling the wrong thing. Like they're, they're probably selling cars. They're probably selling watches at a jewelry store, probably selling cell phones. And they're all listening to the wrong podcasts. They think that ed, my let's going to make him rich or grant Cardone and they're not, solar's going to make him rich and they need to be listening to the right box.Speaker 2 (00:13:33):Okay. There's no doubt about that. I mean, I always say we're the Navy seals of the sells industry. No one's selling like we are so we can learn how to sell solar. Then it's like, I mean, that's why we got so much money in this and yeah, yeah. I can translate to anything else to,Speaker 3 (00:13:46):For sure. Yeah. And we definitely have to get good. We got to hone our skills because, um, it's not about how much money even make per job. It's about how much money you make at the end of the year. And we know that this is the gold rush right now. Um, but the guys that made the most money during the gold rush, you know, you've heard the saying that they sold the shovels and they were the support guys. They built the businesses around it. And so yes, we need to be Navy seals. But the reason to hone our skills that much is because it's not going to pay this much forever five years down the road, let's say the average commission is, you know, a thousand dollars a job then instead of 2,500 or more now, um, that's going to be devastating for someone that hasn't hone their skills.Speaker 3 (00:14:26):If they're used to a 5%, 10% close rate and they think they're killing it because they live in California and they're making serious money per sale, uh, that's not going to be around forever. And so the reason why you have to hone your skills is yes, it's nice to make a million dollars a year. This year, selling solar by having a 40% close rate would be awesome. Right? But the real reason is because, um, in five years you're going to have to close at a 40% rate to make the same amount of money you're making today. So if you, this is the training time, view it as a quick start bonus viewed. As you know, the companies are encouraging you to get out there and sell. It's not going to be like this forever. The whole, the law of supply and demand means that the more people that want to sell solar, the less money the companies will pay to sell for us to sell solar.Speaker 3 (00:15:08):Now they're always going to have all commission jobs. So you're always going to be able to make serious money selling solar, you know, look at the other industries, the pest control, the roofing a thousand dollars per sale is still super competitive. And I really believe that's probably where we're going over the next five years. And so we've got to hone those skills because a lot of us that are selling four jobs a month, five jobs a month, a thousand dollars a sell is not going to cut it. We need to be selling, you know, sitting in three appointments a day and selling, you know, one of those a day. Then we start still making good money. Even with the money being turned down, we're still turning out 200,000 a year or more. Um, even when the industry changes, we also need to prep our skills because there's a few times where your skills mean more than just, um, what you can do with them.Speaker 3 (00:15:53):Navy seals end up retiring from the Navy seals. They go into contracting work and there's companies that will pay them millions of dollars to train other people how to do those skills. So when we talk about honing our skills, it's not just about what you can do with the skills, it's about how you can leverage that to help others. And when we, when we talk about even the big guys in sales grant, Cardone never made as much money as he's making until he made a decision to help other people make money. And, uh, same thing with a lot of the other trainers, right? They could go out. There's only so many hours during the day. So, um, they're only gonna make so much money guys like ed, my left that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars, did it by having thousands of people underneath of him selling stuff.Speaker 3 (00:16:35):And that's really what we have to think is I have to get my skills to a level where I can leverage that to help others and in helping others solve the problem, they're going to give me a small amount of a percentage of the problem I solved. So if you help them make a thousand dollars, maybe they're willing to give you a hundred bucks, but while you can only run five appointments a day, guys that are on your teams, running stuff for you could be running hundreds of appointments a day. So it's just the economies to scale are where it's going to be at. So I encourage the guys, listen to this podcast and, um, and really being interested in solar to hone your skills, stop thinking about even your close rate today. Think about what it'll allow you to build in a year and two years and three years, because the economy is not always going to stay the same. So your skills have to up-level. Yeah,Speaker 2 (00:17:20):No, I agree. A hundred percent. And that's why I talk about on the podcast too. I, I encourage all the people listening. I'd go out and teach your teams to sell, develop that skill, to like present to others, to teach other people, you know, they've got all sorts of things. Like you can go to the Toastmasters, the speaking trainings, things like that. I think that's a huge skill to learn because yeah, we're not always going to be, like you said, making as much as we are in solar necessarily right now. So it's important for people that develop those other skills, which are money-making skills, presenting others, training other people, and then you have a whole different set of skill set you can do when maybe solar isn't as good. So, um, yeah, that's huge, Jerry. And, um, we're going to have your partner Austin in, he's going to also talk about pipes and they get to, so we'll leave, um, some, some stuff for him to talk about that too. Um, but yeah, with you, I wanted to hear, I know you talked about a little bit about your background, how you started in selling, but I wanted to hear, how did you transition, uh, specifically into solar sales? And can you talk about how you started your first company with that? And this is obviously super.Speaker 3 (00:18:22):Yeah, so it was a, it was a rough, um, transition. I had, um, gone home and I was selling ADT as a director level. So nice house, no debt. Um, I had everything we needed was making 200,000 a year, thought it was at the top of my game. Um, and then a solar company kept stealing my top reps. So I managed a three or four state region. Um, and they kept stealing reps and it was always my best ones, always the guys that were making 30 deals a month now, all of a sudden our solar reps. So I decided to go to this company because I'm pretty mad. So I'm just going to walk in, I'm a straight forward guy and say, Hey, stop selling my people. I train these people, you know, it's unfair. And the guy said, let me vent for a little while.Speaker 3 (00:19:06):Then he goes, well, don't you ask yourself why they are selling solar? Don't you want to know how much money you could make selling solar. And so I listened to the pitch and I was like, dang, it it's a good pitch. That's way more money than security. Right. And so I was like, okay, I need to take this seriously. So I go home and I talked to my wife and say, Hey, I think we have to make this transition. I had already noticed some of the writing on the wall. ADT had actually not brought on more customers than it canceled since the time that I've been there over the few years that I've been there. And so that was worrying, you know, if we couldn't outsell the cancels, that's a bad thing. And so how ADT dealt with it as they would acquire other companies and kind of fluff their numbers because they're publicly traded.Speaker 3 (00:19:47):So it never looked like they lost subscribers. Um, but it wasn't because of sales. We could not outsell the cancels. Yeah. And so that doesn't sound sustainable to me. So I had already had some fear that no matter how good we sold, it was just a matter of time, five years, 10 years, 20 years down the road that nobody's going to want to buy security door to door for $60 a month payment. Right. So I was just a little bit worried. So I went home and I talked to my wife and we decided to go ahead and me take an offer, you know, and, and go into that. I accepted the offer within the first 30 days. Um, I thought it was going to make all kinds of money and I made one sale. And some, my wife's like, you gotta tell me what's going on here.Speaker 3 (00:20:32):This is crazy. I would also driving three and a half hours to get to the field. So I was at the time because we were trying to save money. I was like, I'm going to do this as cheap as physically possible. I'm going to drive back and forth, you know, as much as I can. And if I have to, I'll just sleep in the car, get up, knock turf in the morning and, and go at it. I had a, a nice SUV. So I lay a whole air mattress. One of those that you see on Amazon where you pump them up, you know, they cover the seats. I was like, this is going to be cool. Yeah. Just hit the doors. It's parked right there. So I was grinding, right. I was not going like 12 hours a day. And uh, my only break for air conditioning was like, maybe go watch a movie or something like that.Speaker 3 (00:21:10):Well, I was like, if you watch a movie, why can't you just go get a hotel? I'm like, well, maybe it's 12 bucks. Like I don't want to stay in a $12 hotel. That's disgusting. And, uh, but it was a grind right. For a whole month and I made one deal and I thought, this is, this has gotta be over. I think our average commission back then was $1,500. So I traded somewhere around $20,000 a month. In that first month I went down to about 1500. And of course you don't get it until they install it. So they gave me like a little bit and they were like, oh, and you'll get the rest just whenever we don't know. And I'm like, oh, I'm in trouble. ADT was like, next day, you know, somebody would be out there installing it. So I misunderstood that coming into solar.Speaker 3 (00:21:48):Where was, where were you selling that? Kansas city. Okay. Yeah, not a great market. It was only about six years ago. Okay. So, and, um, they had a huge rebate in Kansas city and the rebate had gone away the month I started. So we went from having, I think the state level was up to a $2, a watt rebate then had gone down to a dollar watt and then it kind of went away. Well, $2 watt rebate is huge. So our average sell price was like $3 a watt. And, um, between the rebate and the ITC at the time was 30%. We literally were giving away solar for free. So when I accepted the job, I thought I was going to go door to door and just give it away for free. And then like the week I started, they're like, Hey, the rebate's gone away.Speaker 3 (00:22:28):You really guys, it's not free anymore. You need like 25 to $30,000 on every deal. And I'm like, what? I thought we gave stuff away for free. Well, what's going on with this. And so it kind of changed the game really quickly on me. Uh, I adjusted though. So then, um, once I figured out how to sell, I realized that it was a lot about understanding the benefits, understanding the tax taxes, really understanding how much money they would save because I was so new. It allowed me to adjust faster than the guys that have been doing it two years with this huge rebate and everything. And so the next, uh, three months I had made about a hundred sales, I think 102 sales in the next three months. So it really kicked in and I did really, really well. What's strange is you have these self limiting beliefs though.Speaker 3 (00:23:15):I always believed in ADT that I had to sell 30 deals a month and I really peaked out around the same thing. So it's almost like this mindset that I was a 30 deal a month, a rep I carried over into solar as well. And it's just recently that I realized that mindset's completely wrong listening to some of your podcasts with guys. I think you said recently you had someone on that sold 68 deals in a month. So more than double, more than double what I was selling. So I looked back saying, man, I wonder if I totally just carried over a self-belief from selling security that had nothing to do with solar, but I consistently would put up 30 deals a month. The cool thing about solar is there's commercial too. So my last month I killed it. Um, commission wise, I probably would've made somewhere around 280 5k in 30 days.Speaker 3 (00:24:00):So it was incredible. I went home, talked to my wife, we're super excited. We're like, man, this is it. We're making, we love this company. The company's like, Hey, by the way, we can actually afford to pay you that much. And we're nine months behind on install. And I'm like, oh wow, that's crazy. Some of you listening have probably heard words similar to that before, um, from a solar company. So I decided really quickly to go out on my own. Cause I was like, how much worse can it be if they can't pay me? And it takes nine months to install, I'm sure I can do better than that. So, um, the trouble was, I had to walk away from all of that commission and then, um, didn't have a lot of money in the bank. And so cause you know how far behind commissions are.Speaker 3 (00:24:41):So really I walked away from even more than that. And um, but I had no debt on my house and everything. So we had to sell our house. We had to cash out, 401k, invest, everything we had into starting a solar company. And when you tell your wife that it's time to sell the dream house, to go door to door again and sell more solar, it was a hard conversation. I'm so thankful that she supported me through that though and made that leap. Um, it took about three more years of making really minimal amount of money. I think I pulled maybe $30,000 a year out of my company. Okay. The first six months I, uh, you couldn't hire an EPC like you can now they just really didn't exist. Right? And so I had to hire a, uh, NAVSUP trainer to come in and train me to install.Speaker 3 (00:25:25):So the next six months I installed all my own jobs, uh, realized really, really quickly that I was bad at paperwork. So I had to hire administrative shin assistance and people do net metering. And then I realized I didn't like talking on the phone. So I had to hire, uh, an admin person to answer the phone. Then I had to hire, um, um, a phone sales person to answer all the incoming calls. And I'm like, man, this is crazy. Now I have like 14 people that work for me. I gotta, I gotta start making a lot more sales. So, uh, it was kind of the, you know, they say the, the mother of invention is necessity and that was it. I had to learn how to sell a lot more just to support the company, but selling 30 jobs a month, you know, a lot of solar companies don't even do that much.Speaker 3 (00:26:06):So me myself could go out and support my whole company, but then I just kept growing it. You know, when I brought on other sales guys and, but I stay very conservative. So a lot of owners, you know, brag about their, their fancy watches or the drive fancy cars right away. I always knew this was a long-term play for me. And if I was going to expand faster than my competitors, I had to do it, um, through really being wise with my resources. And so I reinvested almost all the money for three years. We lived on about $30,000 a year. Now I had retired from the military. So I lived in California, man. No, no. I lived in Missouri. Yeah. And started the company headquarters. I also had my military retirement. So the medical and I had some pinching coming. So I had more money that, but out of the company, I only pulled the very minimum that my CPA told me.Speaker 3 (00:26:52):I had to pay myself to be legitimate where I wouldn't have probably pay myself anything. And that allowed me to reinvest in marketing and tools and a better management. And you know, it's kind of crazy there for a while that everyone at my company was making more money than me. But at the same time, I knew that long-term, I was gonna make a lot more money than everyone else. So, you know, that's the old saying that you've all heard, but do things that others aren't willing to do. So that later on you can do a lot. And so that's what was able to happen in my life is that there's three years of really investment allowed us to build out a fully integrated solar company. And we were able to get into things that other companies weren't, you know, we go as far as doing the customer's taxes for up to five years after they buy solar, we do internal financing.Speaker 3 (00:27:35):Um, 2020, we did $50 million in internal solar, solar loans, ourselves without paying finance fees. So you just can't do that without a significant amount of resources, but you only have a significant amount of resources when you don't spend resources. And so it was, um, one of those things that we just chose to stay in Missouri, live frugally, know all of our installers. We have a very different, uh, formula to install. They all live out of Missouri and making 2020 $5 an hour in Missouri is incredible. You know, that they can live really well by their home buy nice cars. They live really well. And so they're willing to travel out of Missouri, take the solar panels and go to Minnesota or go to Florida or go to Texas or go to they'll drive all the way here to Vegas to, to install solar panels. Now we try to rack up several jobs in the same week and our teams are really well-trained.Speaker 3 (00:28:25):So a team of three guys can install a job in one day and so they can stack up, um, you know, two teams can travel out here to Vegas knockout, you know, quite a few jobs in 10 jobs in a week and then travel back, you know? And so it's just a different way to look at business. So we try to solve problems, not necessarily spending more money on it, but how do we actually solve the problem? You know, and the most people would say, well, let's just hire a big EPC in Vegas or California or Florida, because that's easier. Cause that also costs a lot of money. And so we make a lot more money in a lot more profit margin because of that. We're also what I would call a white glove service with doing the customer's taxes. So make sure your benefits to the client.Speaker 3 (00:29:07):We are probably one of the more expensive solar companies in the country, um, which is a hard thing, right? Like it's, it's means that some sales reps don't want to work for us because they want to sell for a more competitively priced company. What we do is a process called value stacking, where we believe that once your value stack exceeds the price, that it doesn't matter what the price is, the client will buy it. So we just try to deliver such a tremendous amount of value that we're still able to sell at a higher price. And then we have a very good margin and then we reinvest that margin. And so last year we were able to break $101 million in revenue. I'm extremely profitable. And uh, we owe no money. We have no debt. We have three years of operating capital on hand at all times now.Speaker 3 (00:29:51):So we're the only, debt-free um, three years worth of capital company. I know of specifically in solar, it's nearly unheard of, um, through COVID we had, um, 24 dealerships that were sub-dealers basically under our brand and we were able to support all of them and their reps through COVID. We're able to support all of our staff, even though we shut down operations for install, all the installers cup paid, all the office workers got paid. Wow. And so it's something we're pretty proud of, but it's also means that while other companies buy Ferrari's, I'm still going to be here in 10 years so they can enjoy their Ferrari's and I'll enjoy my, my safety net, uh, money in the bank. It also allows me to have money to help other companies. So I'm an investor in over 50 companies at this point and, um, own equity in those.Speaker 3 (00:30:36):And so, um, those create passive income streams for me, which help, but it's also just a way that I can help other companies because they need the money. And they, unfortunately, most of them weren't good at saving money. They were the guys buying the Bentleys or Ferrari's. And so they come to me and, uh, ended up needing to, to borrow some funds. And I'm happy to do it as long as it's going to help the company and help them longterm. And obviously it helps me if I can own a chunk of their company as well. For sure.Speaker 2 (00:31:01):And now that's one thing I've noticed about you. Jerry is you're very giving gay. I mean, I'm not part of your company or anything, but I come in here, Jerry treats me like family and he's like, dude, all I'll get you a hotel. First thing he says, when I come into their house here, it's like, Hey, I'll get you a hotel room. We don't have like the best beds and stuff here. I'm like down, like, dude, I'll sleep on my couch, no longerSpeaker 3 (00:31:22):Talking about it. And this is a house for doorknockers I ever real bad, but everyone else has twin size bunk beds. And there's a bunch of, bunch of them upstairs, but we were thinking, Hey man, this guy just drove five hours and now he's going to sleep in a bunk bed. We all kind of had this moment where we're like, we probably should have thought this thing through. So we were like, do you want to hotel? Are you cool? And he's like, no, I'm cool. And then right after he said, he's cool. I see one of our guys carrying in a queen size, like Peloton matches. I'm like, thank goodness that somebody went out and bought a bed for this guy. So, um, but yeah. So thanks for saying that, man. I, I believe in this, this theory about investing where, um, if you're investing in the right people, um, there's no bad investment.Speaker 3 (00:32:04):And so even though it may not make monetary sense today or tomorrow, I invest my time, energy and resources and money into people that I want long-term relationships with. Because even though you don't work for me and you may never work with me, or we may never do anything specifically together, maybe you, um, send me a referral and you're like, Hey, am I coming? He doesn't cover Maine because it's the polar opposite side of the country from San Diego. Could you, do you want this referral in Maine? And absolutely I would. And I'll figure out a way to get in and installed a main, even though my install crews, if they're listening right now, we're like, what's Jerry talking about, I don't want to go to Maine. We would figure it out and make money on it. So I just believe in being very giving.Speaker 3 (00:32:44):And I think people will reciprocate that now I'm not stupid about it. I don't give to everybody. I, I give of my time. Um, most sparingly my time is the resource that I can't get back money. I can make more of time. I can't. And so I invest my time into things like the mastermind into my company and to the people I mentioned or indefinitely into things like this podcast, which I think is going to bear fruit for both your podcast and my companies. So by being a sponsor. And so I look forward to, uh, developing our relationship and um, giving him next week, he's going to email me and be like, Hey man, I really need a new Tesla. I was just wondering if he could spot me 120 K cause it's a plan.Speaker 2 (00:33:23):Yeah. I'm not, that'd be the sponsor. Find me a TeslaSpeaker 3 (00:33:28):It's company is going to be like, why is the side of your Tesla say Pi Syndicate on it? That's really weird.Speaker 2 (00:33:35):Yeah. But no, I, I definitely agree with that cause um, I worked with, you know, several different companies at this point too. And um, we were having conversations before this out. You know, some people are more giving stuff than others. And uh, so I think it pays dividends as long as you're smart about it. Like you're saying is just be that guy. That's not like the cheap guy. That's like, oh, this guy is going to nickel and dime me. But if you're investing into relationships, especially, you know, on business level, um, I think it pays dividends. Like I just, matter of fact, last week I did my, a church mission in Columbia down there and that's one of the things and you know, these south American countries, a lot of them are super poor. And so I get hit up all the time about people, ask them for money and stuff like that. So yeah, you gotta get ready, selects selective. But I just sent, you know, 500 bucks last week for a family's funeral that I knew down there and yeah, like, they're like, oh, um, we'll pay you back. We promise, I know 99% chance. They're not going to be, they're not going to pay me back because you know, yeah.Speaker 3 (00:34:31):I've decided, I've decided that, um, I do sometimes give loans, but if, if it's, if you like that, and I think that you're right, you know, there's a good chance. They won't be able to pay you back. I'm very upfront with it and say, it's a gift. And then say, if you're ever at a time in your life where you can give something to somebody else, go ahead and do that because they're going to feel guilty if it's dead, right. They're good people. I'm sure they are. And eventually that's going to wear on them and it's going to impact their life negatively because they're not going to pay you back. Chances are, um, cause they may not have the resources and stuff like that to do that. And so, so think about doing stuff like that as gifts I give my time, lot, I gift things, not connected to any type of repayment.Speaker 3 (00:35:12):Um, and gifting seems to reward me a lot better than loans. So now in businesses, if you want, um, a hundred thousand dollar loan, I'll do that too, but that's a lot, normally stuff like that as somebody in need it, you know, give it as a gift and um, you'll see dividends of that. It also helps you feel a lot better right away. Like it felt good giving them a loan if you had made the decision to just give it to them as a gift, which is basically, it sounds like what you did. But if you had said that in your head, I'm going to give it as a gift and tell them I'm giving it as a gift. It would have had a little bit more positive impact even in your inside yourself. Um, you know, the gratitude that you felt, being able to help someone.Speaker 3 (00:35:48):And so it's a cool way to, to manage your money like that. That the thing that I, uh, one of the things I talk about when I talk about gifting though, is my time. And so I don't know if you've ever heard a term called time vampires, but I, I definitely believe in the concept that there's some people that just siphon away your time. And so while I'm very free to help people and to mentor them and stuff like that, be selective on who you help. Just like you said, you get hit quite a bit for money, the same thing with time. And you're an influential person. You have a lot of value to add to other people's lives, but you have to start being selective. And one of the rules that I've set for myself is that I only interact daily on a day to day basis with 10 people.Speaker 3 (00:36:29):So if I ever get to a point where I'm talking to someone every single day, I either need to figure out if there's somebody I'm mentoring or if they're somebody that needs to be communicating with one of my 10 people. Um, and I have a wife and four kids. So that means I only have five people outside of that to communicate with on a day-to-day basis. So my, my intimate little work circles about five and it makes for some hard decision-making. I talked to the general manager of solar solutions. Um, she's in training for all intensive purposes. She's the CEO. And, uh, I've talked to her one hour in the last week and she's running a multimillion dollar company for me. And I trust that she's doing a great job. Um, but I don't have time. Day-to-day, she's not by any means a time vampire she's listening, but, um, I don't have time.Speaker 3 (00:37:17):So, but making those decisions, even when they're hard decisions like not to talk to your GM every single day, um, mean that it makes it much easier to make a decision about talking to a friend from high school that just wants to chat about video games or fantasy football. Yeah, I cut. I cut them out pretty quickly because if I don't have time for, you know, my GM, I really don't have time for them either. And so setting up some type of structure in your life to make decisions based on time and who you're going to invest time in is very, very important to go a lot further in life if you invest your time correctly.Speaker 2 (00:37:50):Yeah. I agree. That's a good point. So yeah, for all our listeners, I think it's a good thing to do. If another thing I've talked about is just, you know, a time audit, just really tracking what you actually did with your hours, how you spent your time. It's a lot of times we think we're being super productive, smart with our time, and then we actually check it. We just spent two hours talking about fantasy football to someone or, you know, playing a game on the phone, whatever, things like that.Speaker 3 (00:38:15):Yeah. With strangers now that I, uh, last year I had done the math on, you know, how much money I was making per hour that I worked. And the number was much, much larger than what I had previously thought about it being. And, um, in the last few years, it's led me to really, really feel guilty about wasting my time. So like, I, I love video games. I love world of Warcraft back in the day and things like that. There's zero chance that I could open up a computer, get on world of Warcraft tonight and play for four hours without having this tremendous amount of guilt. You know, just because my time is, I know what my time's worth right now. And if someone would ask me, Hey, would you give me $25,000 to play world of Warcraft? I would say, no, I'm not going to give you 25 grand to play a video game. But that's exactly what we do in investing our time and activities that don't actually generate income or generate a better relationship with those around us is it's time that we're really, really stealing from ourselves. Yeah.Speaker 2 (00:39:12):A hundred percent. So now that's a good, a good point with that. And so going back a little bit at Jerry, um, something I wanted to ask you about, we were talking before we started recording here is just like you're saying, um, so many people just sell their prices low. Um, you said you're like one of the higher price companies that sell solar. And I think that's awesome. I started out with the company that was kind of similar to that. They tried to bundle in like some solar cleaning in some like a, I dunno, yearly checkup type things dated. It kind of found some loopholes around it. And I think it made a few customers mad cause they put in the fine print that they would only do that if the customer like contacted them. And It was kind of a, maybe not.Speaker 3 (00:39:54):Yeah. The whole thing about being the most expensive company is you also have to do the best job. And so you can get away with that. What's crazy is it's easier if you're a good salesperson to sell being the most expensive than it is being the cheapest. The only person that thinks it's easier to sell being the cheapest are bad salespeople. That's what it comes down to. You're probably not listening to this podcast. If you think the only way to sell is by lowering the price. That's probably not your target audience. People are trying to learn. They're trying to get better. We grade sales reps, um, AB and C sales reps, um, see sales reps are sell by being cheap. And that's how we remember it. If the only way that they can sell is by being the cheapest in the room and they're not selling based on anything else.Speaker 3 (00:40:39):Then they're a C sells rep. There is definitely room in the solar industry for C sales reps. So if you sell based on price, don't feel bad about it. Just either educate yourself to get better or find a company that really is the cheapest. And that's where you need to, to be out, to make money. Um, be sales reps are those that, um, really are good at one or two things. They either technical experts or they are expert closers. And it's one of two things they're either the best closer in the whole world. I would refer to like, um, Mike O'Donnell or, uh, Taylor McCartney, you know, incredible closers, but I know more about solar than either one of them. So the other, the other B sales rep is, um, someone that, um, is very, very technical. I would look at, um, you know, um, quite a few people in the marketplace that I would look at Jake Hess would be the one that comes to mind, very, very technical, closer, you know, through, um, his academy.Speaker 3 (00:41:34):He trains people how to be very technical. And then the AA sales rep is those that combine both. So yes, Taylor and Mike can definitely answer those technical questions or they know how to pivot really well. And so they're a sales reps because at the end of the day, phenomenal closers and they know everything they need to know about solar to get the sell closed. Now Taylor's kind of bizarre because he does know it just a little bit, but he's that good of a sales rep that he's still in a sales role. And I was talking about something one day. He's like, I don't even know what you're talking about. It's like, okay, I guess I'm more of a technical sales rep instead of as good of a closer isSpeaker 2 (00:42:11):PESI oh, you asked him one time. Like, I don't even know what an inverter is.Speaker 3 (00:42:15):That's what he told me. That's what we were talking about us. I went different numbers, to be honest, I don't know what you're talking about. He's like, but I sold the last 14 doors I knocked on and I was like, wow, that's a that's okay. There's definitely some benefit. I noticed that they and Jake has been hanging out and I'm like, well, uh, hopefully those guys learn a lot from each other because of your powerhouse. Um, but yeah, and so the sales reps are like that. We specifically hire the sales reps because they have to be good closers and they have to know a lot about the technical side. Cause we have to justify our higher price. And um, explain why we're higher. One of the things is we give her a warranties instead of just fake claims. We also give free maintenance, but we give a 25 year true labor warranty.Speaker 3 (00:42:56):Um, anything that goes wrong. A lot of guys in the solar industry don't realize, but they're selling, what's called a workmanship warranty. And under a workmanship warranty, you would assume that if say a panel stops working, that the company would come out and fix it for free without charging the customer a fee, the truth is a workmanship warranty covers bad workmanship. So if they installed it incorrectly, which caused the panel to stop working a good company would come out and fix it. But a good company would do that for free. Even without a warranty in writing, they would say, yeah, you're right. That's our fault. Let us fix that. So it's pretty much just acknowledging that, Hey, we're a good company, which is, which is nice of them to say there's a 20 five-year workmanship warranty, but, uh, under the warranty and most of the terms of that panel stops working.Speaker 3 (00:43:39):It's the manufacturer's fault. You would have to pay that solar company labor to come out and replace that solar panel. And there's almost zero sales reps that understand that concept. And I guarantee you no homeowner understands that concept. So when they get into these 25 year loans, when you talk about company evaluations and how to evaluate the value of a solar company, those that give away a workmanship warranty are basically locking in that customer on a service plan for the next 25 years, that increases the company evaluation because they know they're going to make X amount of money servicing that system over the next 25 years at a company like mine. It actually decreases our company value because we know that the relationship with that client will just cause, um, cost over the next 25 years. So, um, was very few companies like ours that are giving free labor away, true free labor for the whole time, but we definitely do.Speaker 3 (00:44:32):And so we align ourselves up with even our battery manufacturers are full 25 year warranties. So everything we do as a 25 year warranty or more included with labor too. So even the solar panels and the batteries, if we were to go out of business, uh, they'll hire an electrician to come out and service it. So it's just a different pitch, but a good sales rep always feels more comfortable being the guy saying, I'm the best buy for me, then I'm the cheapest, you know, let's, it's a good deal. Let's do this, you know? So you'll kind of weed, weed out those people that aren't quite as.Speaker 2 (00:45:03):Yeah, I know. Yeah. It's interesting. If you go to these like marketing conferences and stuff, and then the online marketing and they say, there's no competitive advantage to being like, you know, unless I made all of the pack pricing, you're either like the cheapest or you're in the most expensive and you add more value, but there's no like advantage at all as being kind of like middle soSpeaker 3 (00:45:23):No, and you kind of disregard all the middle companies too. Um, and so I, I definitely think one of our strategies is we know we're going to be the most expensive. So we get that out of the way right away. We tell them we are, we actually tell them to shop around. And if they choose to go with a cheaper company, we'll even pay $50 per quote, that they give us from the other companies that they've shopped around with. So we encourage them to give us, go shop around with four quotes and then we'll come back and be the final one in the door, propose our price a hundred percent of the time. They're expecting us to undercut the cheapest bid. Um, cause they think it's a gimmick, right? You're giving me these quotes, you're going to undercut their price and then try to close me a hundred percent of the time.Speaker 3 (00:46:01):We make sure we're more expensive. In fact, if we're not the most expensive person, we raise our price by a thousand dollars and make sure because it's easier to sell in the most expensive. Now, not everyone buys though. And so just like a car lot, you you're the most expensive your Lamborghini dealership or whatever. That's how we treat it. But at the end of the day, if you say it's too expensive and you're getting ready to walk out, we say, hold on, wait a minute. Let's see if we can throw something else in. So we try to do value, add. So we may replace their air conditioner or we may help replace the roof or whatever it is. But very rarely will we do just a straightforward discount. We're never going to be like, okay, you're right. Let us let us price it out for $10,000 cheaper. There's probably not going to be us, but we'll win.Speaker 2 (00:46:42):Yeah. I think that's awesome. Because especially in California, there's no excuse for people to be selling like rock bottom prices. I mean, San Diego, you can sell a system, you know, $6 a watt, super expensive, and you're still saving them. You're still cutting their bill by 30%. Yeah. So it's like these companies that try to sell rock bottom line, what are you guys doing? We're still saving the customers.Speaker 3 (00:47:03):I think we all need to be on the same team, right? Like, um, I think there's places out there for the cheapest guys. The problem is, um, those guys need to go move to Missouri or Kansas or somewhere with 10 cent per watt, kilowatt hours of they want to sell cheap California. You're not competing against each other. You're competing against a utility company. So $6 a watt is completely fair price to charge. If you're versing the utility company, what that allows you to do as a company is make more profit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with profit. If you're helping the client, because that means you can take that profit and go make more clients. You can spend more money on marketing. You can spend more money on paying your people. You can spend more money on office space. You can do everything you can to grow.Speaker 3 (00:47:47):And at the end of the day, we all want to have more solar customers. We all believe the solar is good for the environment. And so at the end of the day, our mission is to sell as many people as we can. And people get twisted. People that are new to business think selling cheaper will help them sell more. It absolutely will. Not their resources you gain from selling a fairly priced product. That's beating out your competitor, which is the utility company is the correct price. And so I would never charge somebody. One of my ethical roles is I never charge more than what they're paying on the utility company. So solar solutions is a little different. They have to be able to pay the system off within 10 years through savings. And they have to be able to have a payment that's cheaper than their utility bill from day one, or we won't quote them.Speaker 3 (00:48:30):The system will tell them that they w we don't advise them to go solar in California. That wouldn't happen very often though. It's so good of a deal for everybody. Even as $6 a watt, you should be doing that, just make sure you're not going out and buying Ferrari's. You need to be reinvesting that money in yourself. And for you specifically in your podcast and your recruiting budget to help others come on board, because you're not going to be able to sell a prices like that forever. And we know that. So you use those resources to expand, to grow, to really make a dent in the industry. And it's so cool. I, I learned something from you earlier. We were talking to our guys about how saturated Las Vegas is. I don't think anyone would argue that San Diego's, if not the most saturated market, one of the most saturated markets in the United States, very cool market.Speaker 3 (00:49:17):And you still go out and door knock every day, and you still run into people that need solar and once solar. So it's incredible. We, we need to stop thinking of the scarcity mindset, where we're competing against other solar companies. We're still not even in San Diego. We're not. Um, and the truth is you mentioned it too, but those companies may knock the door once and you're going to knock the door five or more times. And so, um, I'm okay with competition as long as I'm better than them. And it sounds like you're, you're beating them so that that's healthy competition. Um, and so I think that that's a really cool thing to think about. We all need to keep our prices higher because in San Diego, if you can sell $6 a watt in the most competitive thing in the whole United States, that everybody should be pricing their structure out right below the utility company, let's do better than the utility company. But that means I operate in mainly the Midwest states. That means we don't sell as high in Kansas. We don't sell high in Texas. We don't sell as high at all in Tennessee. So it, it just all depends on where you're at, what their pricing is because the utility is the competitor, not, not the other solar companies. Yeah.Speaker 2 (00:50:21):I think that's a good rule to go by though, cause you don't want to charge them way more than they're paying forSpeaker 3 (00:50:26):Electricity. Heard some interesting guys pitch it. And if they knocked on my door, their ride, I probably would've bought it cause they're good enough to pitch, pitch it as an investment. Um, my individual role with investing is I want my money back within 10 years. I want it to completely be liquid. And, and that's really comes into about a 7% compounded interest rate or above. And so, um, I wouldn't personally make an investment that, that wasn't going to happen. I put all my money into investments like that. So why would solar be anything different if I'm going to put it on my house? I still want that kind of ROI. And so, um, I think I just ethically on a personal side, uh, that's translated to the ethics of my company to say, look, we're not going to sell it unless, unless they meet the standard for Jerry thinking, it's a good thing.Speaker 3 (00:51:13):Right? And that's my standard. There's, there's been some guys though that I talked to that view it as a financial investment in states that have very low prices and I don't think they're wrong. And there's also a lot of speculation about the price of utilities, really jumping up over the next three years. A good friend of mine, Mike [inaudible] talks about it. He's extremely convincing, right? Like he's the guy that I've listened to enough where I'm like, you know what, even if they are spending $20 more a month, Mike's probably right. It's, it's going to be okay. It's just not a company thing that we do. So that's our litmus test is we try to price it right below. Um, but definitelySpeaker 2 (00:51:48):Don't price it a dollar 85 watt. I think we can all agree that if you're the guy out there selling at a dollar 85, a watt, you need to listen to the podcast more often and learn how to sell more because there's no reason to do that. And at the end of the day, what I tell customers that are getting an incredible deal as I run the numbers and I say, Hey, your sales reps making $500 on this deal. Uh, who is it? Oh, it a power I've never heard of power. That's interesting. It must be a power app. Um, the sold out for a $500 commission. And I say, think about this, it's a 25 year agreement. Uh, you, you need customer service for the next 25 years. If something goes wrong, right. They're like, yeah, nice. Well, how much do you think the $21 a year is going to buy you in time for that guy to pick up the phone and answer your questions?Speaker 2 (00:52:33):The truth is, think of his commission, like prepaying to have an advocate for you for the next 25 years. And in my opinion, $500 is not enough money for a 25 year relationship. So we need to pay our reps well enough that they're do very good customer service or the company needs to make enough profit that they take that role on themselves. That the rep isn't the one responsible for customer service and taking care of. Cause if we sell somebody a $25,000 system, it is definitely our responsibility to take care of them for the next 25 years. Like that's, that's just the way it is. That's our job. Yeah. So yeah, I just got a call actually like a couple hours ago from Gaia sold four years ago. Call me just barely ins. Yeah. Luckily I made more than 500 bucks, but yeah, that's a good point though. Like I'm only making 500 bucks and it's a guy that's taken up all this time. That's time suck then. Uh, yeah. It's um, like you want to be making, you know, your time worth some money for sure. Yeah. Um, and yeah, the other thing that's, uh, I forget, I forget the question. I was going to ask you where I was going with.Speaker 3 (00:53:41):Well, we were talking a little bit, uh, before we started and you were, you were basically saying, um, you know, why did I step away from solar solutions? And, um, you know, I thought that was a really interesting question that I wanted to say for the podcast. Yeah. So the reason why is because I, I believe that the solar industry is at its peak right now. I think it's incredible. It's the new gold rush. Everyone we know in sales should be going into solar right now. It is the biggest opportunity. If you're not telling your friends and family members and neighbors, neighbors, that they should be selling solar, and they're working at a library or they're working at Starbucks, you're doing them a disservice. You should be so convicted that it's time to get into solar, that I needed to transition what I'm doing to align with that.Speaker 3 (00:54:26):So if I believe everybody should get into solar, that I need to build a company that isn't one of the most difficult sales processes that requires a rep like you with all your knowledge, to go out and sell for $6 a watt, I would need to do something more moderate. So energy co is meant to recruit anybody. You know, we're here at a recruiting class. I'm glad that you're able to say Hey to them while you were here. And there's some kids are now in this class that are 18 years old. There's not a lot of solar companies. I'd be excited about hiring a 18 year old. Right. And I had to go back to a training model that allowed me to recruit literally anybody off the street. Like I worked in a Starbucks that teacher, the person that's struggling. Cause they got a degree in psychology and they haven't worked since they graduated.Speaker 3 (00:55:12):They're like, what just happened? I paid all this money for a degree and I don't have a job. I wanted to go back to the days, like when we worked at security or pest control that literally anybody could do it. Right? Like you just had to knock doors. Solar gets more complicated than that sometimes. And so our whole concept here at energy co is a division of labor. So we split it into the, the setter, the educator and the closer they work together as a team, you know, there's a whole bunch of people that can set cause anybody can set just like in pest control security. He just got to say, even if they're terrible and they're like, Hey, do you want solar? Eventually somebody's going to say yes. Whereas the educator's a little bit harder. You've got to explain the one-on-ones and how solar works.Speaker 3 (00:55:51):But there are a whole bunch of second grade teachers out there that would absolutely love to make money per job. Um, in 30 minutes of work, right? And then our closers are definitely the rarest people. It takes a very specific skillset. And so w

Murder Murder News - The Listen Edition
Murderer Randall Saito's Hospital Escape

Murder Murder News - The Listen Edition

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 12, 2021 53:14


Today marks four years since Randall Tashio Saito's escape from the Hawaiian psychiatric hospital where he was being held. Saito had murdered 29-year-old Sandra Yamashiro in a random attack in 1979, and had taken a plea that made history in Hawaii. Angelina and Aurora weave through the twists and turns of Saito's trial, the anonymous testimony that nudged his case closer to justice, and the details of his mysterious escape in November 2017.Writing and research by Aurora Cady.Original music and audio production by Louis Levesque.For inquiries: louis14levesque@gmail.comF O L L O W  U S ! ! !I N S T A G R A M -- @murdermurdernewsT W I T T E R --  @mmurdernewsF A C E B O O K -- https://www.facebook.com/mmntruecrime/T I K T O K -- @murdermurdernewsY O U T U B E -- MurderMurder NewsJoin our Facebook Group | to chat about true crime, and to join our virtual book club!Check out MurderMurder.news for the latest breaking true crime news!For business inquiries: murdermurdernews@gmail.comSubmit a  spooky story: https://murdermurder.news/story-submission-form/---LINKS + SOURCES:https://staradvertiser.newspapers.com/image/271697564/?terms=Sandra%20Yamashiro&match=1https://www.newspapers.com/image/271951955/https://staradvertiser.newspapers.com/image/271799170/?terms=Sandra%20Yamashiro&match=1https://staradvertiser.newspapers.com/image/271620580/?terms=Sandra%20Yamashiro&match=1https://staradvertiser.newspapers.com/image/354263390/?terms=Sandra%20Yamashiro&match=1https://staradvertiser.newspapers.com/image/265004087/?terms=randall%20saito&match=1https://www.newspapers.com/clip/15101261/honolulu-star-bulletin/https://staradvertiser.newspapers.com/image/262520814/?terms=Sandra%20Yamashiro&match=1https://staradvertiser.newspapers.com/image/271659573/?terms=randall%20saito&match=1https://staradvertiser.newspapers.com/image/262520814/?terms=randall%20saito&match=1 https://staradvertiser.newspapers.com/image/556101004/?terms=randall%20saito&match=1https://wildabouttrial.com/tag/randall-saito/https://staradvertiser.newspapers.com/image/262540125/?terms=randall%20saito&match=1https://staradvertiser.newspapers.com/image/265004087/?terms=randall%20saito&match=1https://staradvertiser.newspapers.com/image/273703411/?terms=randall%20saito&match=1https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/36845640/escapee-had-a-cell-phone-change-of-clothes-and-paid-in-cash/https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/36865361/psychopathic-killer-says-he-escaped-from-state-hospital-because-its-not-safe/https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/36855242/im-shook-up-vigilant-cabbie-helped-authorities-find-hawaii-escapee/https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/36835133/in-light-of-escape-security-a-concern-at-the-hawaii-state-hospital/https://staradvertiser.newspapers.com/image/512943813/?terms=randall%20saito&match=1https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/ap-top-news/2021/05/07/5-year-prison-term-for-hawaii-psychiatric-hospital-escape https://fruitloopspod.com/2019/03/14/s2-e19-randall-toshio-saito/Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/murdermurdernews)

Focus on Europe | Video Podcast | Deutsche Welle
Refugees stuck in Albanian hotels

Focus on Europe | Video Podcast | Deutsche Welle

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 11, 2021 4:26


Afghan refugees being sheltered in Albanian hotels are waiting to find out what's next for them. The uncertainty surrounding their future is a heavy burden to bear.

Ten Cent Takes
Issue 19: The Sandman Book Club (part 3)

Ten Cent Takes

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 11, 2021 77:52


Once again, we're walking the moonlit path of dreams and discussing The Sandman. In this episode, we're talking about the fifth and sixth volumes: A Game of You and Fables & Reflections.  ----more---- Mike: I don't think I'm getting a birthday present. I am relatively certain that they want to fire me out of a cannon into the sun Jessika: Hello. And welcome to Ten cent takes the podcast where we cause whiplash from rapid time leaps, one issue at a time. My name is Jessica Frasier and I'm joined by my cohost, the curious collector, Mike Thompson. Mike: Man, my collection has been growing by leaps And bounds lately. Yeah. COVID has not been kind to my closet free space.  Jessika: Oh, well, and you recently gave me my first short box, So  thing. So  Mike: I'm not sorry.  Jessika: no, don't be, I needed a place for the, my, I looked over at my, at my bookshelf one day and went, oh no, I have a lot of single issues that are just kind of sitting on a shelf. Mike: you know, you're a collector when you just have the random piles of single issues hanging out,  Jessika: I just have random piles of trade paperbacks. And just like, my counter is literally covered. Not only do I have every one of the Sandman series, just like chilling on my counter. I got, um, moon girl and, uh,  um, devil devil dinosaur, and that's just chilling. So I've just got all this stuff, like all over. Mike: Yeah, it's a, it's insidious. It takes over. your life. One issue at a time.  Jessika: Well, what better way to fill a tiny house shaped like a pirate ship than with comics. Mike: Hm. Fair.  Jessika: If you haven't listened before the purpose of our podcast is to study comic books in ways that are both fun and informative. We want to look at their coolest weirdness and silliest moments, as well as examine how they're woven into the larger fabric of pop culture and history. This episode, we are returning to our book club and we will be looking at volumes five and six of the Sandman series. If you haven't checked out the first couple episodes of the series, I highly recommend you go back and take a lesson. It's episodes 15 and 17. Mike: Yeah. And we're covering two volumes at a time.  Jessika: Yes, we are. So 15 was one and two and 17 was three and four. So you're joining us for five and six. So welcome aboard. Mike: Welcome to the deep end of the pool children. you don't get an inner tube and we don't have any water wings. Sorry.  Jessika: There's absolutely no lifeguard on duty. We are not responsible Dulce at this time. Mike: If You are enjoying our podcast, please go ahead and rate and review on whatever platform you're listening on. If that's an option it's especially helpful. If you can rate us on apple podcasts, there's a lot of discoverability, , or if you have overcast, you can always do a star for the episode and that'll push promotion as well. Or if you're a comic fan and you're liking what we're talking about, and you've got some friends who you think would actually enjoy it? as Well, please let them know any little bit helps. We really appreciate all of you who are spending your time with us. Jessika Audio: We also want to support other podcasts that we really like in this space. So this week spotlight is on the last comic shop podcast. Here's a quick review of what to expect from them. If you want us to feature your show, go ahead and drop us off.   Jessika:  before we leave into our main main topic, Mike, what is one cool thing you've read or watched? Mike: I was on hooplah the other day and I came across a new series by Jeff Lemire, who is the guy who wrote Sweet Tooth along with a bunch of other excellent. But it's called Gideon Falls and they have the first five volumes on there. it's a really interesting series. It starts off feeling kind of like a horror supernatural thriller involving a Catholic priest who comes to this town and he's very quickly wrapped up in nefarious things going on and it's really creepy. And then there's a B- story involving a guy who is in this kind of weird dystopian, urban environment, far away from the small town of Gideon falls. as the story continues, it morphs from being a, , supernatural horror murder mystery into a bit more science fiction and mad science while still keeping those original vibes. , and also there's a lot of personal tragedy involved with the main characters. That's really cool to read too, which I mean, that's what Jeff Lemire does is he writes these things that just, they make you a lot of times feel like you need to watch Schindler's list for a pick me up. They're excellent, but they are brutal at times. so after I read that, I then proceeded to read through the, what if omnibus that they had on hooplah and I needed something a little bit lighter to cleanse by.  Jessika: That's very relatable. Definitely been in that situation myself. Mike: but what about you?  Jessika: Well, I have, I recently purchased the book herding cats, which is a black and white anthology comic by Sarah Anderson Mike: like this is the woman who did hyperbole and a half, right?  Jessika: yes. Yeah. And also the one that I've spoken about before fangs. Mike: Yeah. The love story between the vampire and the werewolf.  Jessika: Aha. Aha.  Mike: Yes, I listen.  Jessika: you do, you're very good, probably multiple times because we record and then edit and relisten relisten. And this style of comic is definitely way different than the fangs one. , it's more of a simple design and it's just, it's a really fun time to begin with. I highly recommend her stuff to begin with. So hurting is a part of her Sarah scribbles collection. And if you've seen some of those strips floating around online, they're pretty cute. each page of the book is showing like a small relatable instance about daily. And it's definitely a mood booster. If you're looking for a different palette cleanser, this is definitely it, it kept me giggling the whole way through. And despite it's title, it's definitely not a whole book of cat Comics. I promise. Cause I'm not necessarily a cat person per se. I mean, they're fine, but I'm, I'm not a cat person,  but you will see some in there.  Mike: I'm more of a cat person  than you are  Jessika: You've truly are you are with your little dog  cat.  Mike: the Duchess Sprocket fonts adipose.  Jessika: Oh goodness. The names we give our pets. I swear. I think the most fun part about this book though, is that there's also a section at the back. , and it has advice to young artists and it's complete with Comics to go with the advice, which is super cute.  Mike: Oh, that's awesome. That's really cute.  Jessika: Yeah. That's really sweet. All right. Now onto the meat of our episode, this one's going to be a chunker buckle up everyone. So volume five of the Sandman series is titled a game of you and was published in 1991 and 92 it's composed of issues. 32 through 37 of the Sandman series and was written by Neil Gaiman and illustrated by Sean McManus. Colleen Duran, Brian Talbot and Stan.  We begin our tail in somewhere called the land and voices stadium may needed to find help and that the lane was in great peril and that they were waiting for the person, destined, to save them. Ultimately, one of the voices states their decision to go find the person that is supposed to save them. Meanwhile, Barbie, which was a surprise for me to see her again, is a woken by her neighbor, Wanda. And it's revealed that even though she sleeps, Barbie is unable to dream.  Mike: And we should note who Barbie and Wanda are, because the last time that we saw them was in the doll's house and Barbie at the time had been married to a yuppie named Ken who, when the dream, the vortex, was that what it was the dream for techs.  Jessika: Yeah, it was the dream vortex caused by Rosewall. Mike: Yeah. So when the dream vortex hit and. Ripping everybody's dreams into one another. There's this weird kind of overlap. Ken and Barbie had some sort of a fight. We don't know exactly what about, but it was basically, I think it was tied to the fact that Ken was, he was an eighties, yuppy, Wallstreet, wannabe, and his fantasies involved, things that Barbie found kind of testable. And then Wanda was the landlord, right?  Jessika: No, actually that was a different person,  but, um, Wanda. Yeah, Wanda's a new, person and she's in the new place. The Barbie moves to, Mike: Okay. Like I totally read that wrong. I have spent, I've spent decades thinking that Wanda was the same person as,  Jessika: I  Mike: uh,  Jessika: name now,  Mike: yeah.  Jessika: but he was, he was queer in the sense that he was like cross-dressing, but not necessarily like, he wasn't necessarily trans from my understanding. Mike: Yeah. but the other thing is that on the back of the book, I think they sit there and they refer to the drag queen. for, for this volume,  Jessika: oh, well that's just rude.  Mike: Yeah.  Jessika: That's just transphobic. Mike: yeah. Hold on. Let's, let's take a look at this now.  Jessika: Well, I am going to yell about the transphobia, so we'll , just wrap it up now. We'll get started here. Mike: Yeah, so it's literally the promo text on the back is taken apartment house, add in a drag queen, a lesbian couple, some talking animals, talking severed, head, a confused heroine and a deadly Kuku. So I don't think that's on Neil Gaiman. I think that's more DC comics than anything else,  Jessika: I agree. That was whoever was writing the cover script. Mike: but that is something that, because I read that description, I thought it was the landlord Hal from doll's house, because Hal was someone who clearly was like tight with Barbie and also had a drag persona?  Jessika: there was a one-off statement about how pal gave her be addressed to the landlord for this place where she moved to New York.  Mike: I missed that. Okay.  Jessika: It's again, one of those, you know, I'm glad I could catch something you didn't. Cause it's usually the other way round. Mike: Yeah. No,, but honestly between that and, the, uh, the promo text on the back, I thought that one had moved on from her assigned gender and was now living in her actual identity. But that was clearly not the case. And that was a little confusing to me. But the other thing is that, you know, the art style had changed. And so I wasn't sure if it was just a new artist rendering an old character. So on me.  Jessika: that's caught me a few times though, where I'm like, wait, the art's a little bit different.  Mike: Yeah.  Jessika: Am I like, is this the same character? And I had to kind of suss out who the character was , which is fine. It was easy enough,  Mike: That's kind of shocking that they sit there and still identify Wanda as a drag queen. Like these days  Jessika: yeah.  Mike: anniversary book.  Jessika: Yeah. That was very disappointing to me. didn't realize that. And that just Mike: Not great.  Jessika: Neil, that one probably wasn't Neal.  Awesome. It was God dammit.  Mike: I doubt it was like, I don't, that, reeks of marketing .  Jessika: Well, there are absolutely people who write the, the covers and whatevers. Mike: yeah.  Jessika: So Barbie is living once again, an eclectic type living situation, but has moved to New York. Like we were saying beside Wanda, her neighbors include a lesbian couple named Hazel and Foxglove and a seemingly square bear of a young woman named Thessaly and a middle-aged man named George, who seems to keep to himself for the most part. Barbie also gets very creative with her makeup for the day, painting a black and white checkerboard onto half of her face. And Wanda has decided that spite their lack of money, they should go shopping and at Tiffany's even, Mike: Yeah, I really liked Arby's makeup because it felt very much like what you see on Tech-Talk these days, which is all optical illusions and cool stuff like that. So, Neil Gaiman, oddly prescient, or the 1990s. Jessika: He's doing us good right now. So we quickly cut to the dream realm where Dream is talking with Matthew, the Raven and his son, something happening in a far part of the dream realm, that there was some sort of transition. We zip back to Barbie and Wanda who are on the subway. A woman approaches them for change and Wanda brushes her off. While Barbie throws a of quarters in her cup, the woman becomes very upset when she sees that she is sharing the subway car with a puppy and starts yelling and panicking saying that she doesn't like dogs. The dogs scare her and she exits the car. The first available stop then up the stairs and out of the subway onto the main road, still yelling about not liking dogs. She is immediately face to face with what looks like a giant yellow dog with a large mustache that had to be bigger than a bus. This thing was huge. Mike: Yes,  Jessika: And it didn't even really look like a dog, but that was probably the closest approximation to what you could call it,  Mike: it's kind of this weird amalgamation between a Saint Bernard and a lion.  Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. That's a good way to say it.  Mike: as we learn we have seen him before in Barbie's very kind of like Alison Wonderland meets Lord of the rings dreams that she was having before the events of adult's house.  Jessika: Yes. And we will definitely be talking about those  Mike: No.  Jessika: and the woman upon seeing this huge dog what's herself and then faints meanwhile, Wanda and Barbie have made it to their stop and go forward breakfast prior to their shopping spree. After being asked about the subject, Barbie explains that she hasn't been able to dream after a weird night back where she used to live. And after that point, things fell apart with her relationship with Ken, she said she stopped communicating with him anymore and they weren't really being intimate. And then Ken found another woman and was like bringing the other woman over, even though Barbie was there. It was super wack. Mike: Yeah, And I mean, I dunno, good for her for, knowing right out of that situation. Jessika: Yeah, exactly. She didn't deserve that.  Mike: No,  Jessika: So pan back to giant dog thing who is looking super rough, it. Mike: uh,  Jessika: He's still trying to complete his quest, even though he's limping along, the police are trying to cordon off the area and Barbie and Wanda are passing along that same way. Barbie recognizes her friend calls him by name Martin. And as he's trying to make his way towards her, the police fire on him from multiple angles, he falls in a heap to Barbie's feet and tells her that she needs to go back. The land needs her and gives her the serpentine, which appears to be a large pink stone in an ornate fitting on a necklace, one a pulls away as Martin dies from his injuries. She gets Barbie home and helps her into her apartment. And Barbie realizes that the necklace was from her dreams. And then her whole room fills with blackbirds who turn white, which was, that was a wild thing. And outside the door, George seems very interested in the situation and tries to ask Wanda, but she just brushes him off.  Mike: Right. And it's , kind of creepy, like his demeanor is that he seems like that weird sorta infatuated in cell who's uncomfortably interested in one of his neighbors.  Jessika: yeah, he's like at the door with his head down. He's like post Barbie.  Mike: Yeah.  Jessika: I wish you could see me, everyone. Cause I'm just like girl. then he goes and grabs a whole ass Raven and puts it in his mouth and swallows it whole and grinning the whole time and mentioned the. Mike: Yeah, by that point in time, it's not surprising that he is off in a creepy, supernatural way. there've been enough weird little hints about them throughout the issue.  Jessika: Yeah. He's just kind of a lurking most of the time, which is very strange.  Mike: Yeah.  Jessika: There's a whole lot of other apartment drama, of course. And , Hazel was taken advantage of while drunk and is now pregnant, but hasn't told her partner Fox glove. she's also pretty naive about how reproduction works in the first place, which is super depressing. Like she didn't know basic things. Mike: It felt like she was written to be unbelievably dumb about this one topic, even though she's in a queer relationship in New York, she works as a chef. And when we're first introduced to her, she seems very no bullshit because when we first meet her, it's Wanda trying to get milked for Barbie and Hazel is like, kind of. Antagonistic towards Wanda. And you're not sure if it's because she's possibly transphobic or if she's just not a morning person, because they let Wanda come in and grab some milk and it just seems like they're kind of cranky people who are not thrilled to be woken up in the morning.  Jessika: Yeah.  Yeah.  Mike: But then like later on, she has these moments that are just, literally unbelievably naive and I don't think her character was written like she should have been. I don't know. I, I'm curious if, when they do an audio book of this, if they ever get around to it, how Gaiman's going to rewrite her.  Jessika: Yeah. Same as I, I just think, yeah, there was a lot missing from this character. Just didn't feel like you said believable as a character, just in all of these different pieces to her. So Barbie is still waking out a bit about her experience and with the birds and everything else, and Martin 10 bones, all that stuff, and tries to decompress while watching TV. And she starts drifting in and out of sleep. And by extension in and out of the dream realm, Nuala actually does show up again. I know we had said prior that we weren't sure if she does, but she does, Mike: yeah. And new Allah was the ferry who had been given to Dream as a gift in volume four without her consent, by the way, it was kind of like surprise you now serve the dream Lord,  Jessika: Yeah. You're not coming home with me. Sorry. This is now your problem.  Ugh.  Mike: which, I mean like, admittedly, we all kind of wish that we could do that with our siblings at one point or another,  Jessika: well, Mike: I mean,  Jessika: my brother doesn't listen to this anymore, so it's fine. Oh goodness. So Nuala does show up and she tries to warn Barbie. That shit is about to get complicated at which point Barbie does fall asleep and passes into the dream. cut to creepy George, who is cutting himself open. He pulls open his chest, exposing his ribs, where a bunch of blackbirds had evidently been waiting and subsequently fly out of him. The other members of the apartment complex start having weird and awful dreams and the birds visit each sleeping individually individual thusly catches the bird, trying to harass her and with a glance at ignites in her hand, which affects George. This is the first real glimpse of the idea that thusly may not be the quiet innocuous individual that she first seemed to be. And she then goes to see George at his apartment wielding a kitchen knife. Mike: Yeah, I thought that was really cool. And the thing is, is that that's actually a really good example of kind of game and doing , some misdirection because he doesn't drop any hints about her. All you get the idea of is that she's extremely straight-laced and kind of nebbish for lack of a better term. Jessika: Yeah,  Mike: yeah, and then she just busts out powers and she's really not featured much before this either, which was kinda.  Jessika: yeah, And back in the. Barbie is having to reacclimate herself to her own dream character as she has only the fleeting memories of the night she spent there. And everybody in the building starts to awaken and the birds disappear. They're all shaken after their nightmares. And one by one thusly visits, the apartments of the other residents starting with Hazel and Fox glove followed by Wanda. Leslie already knew the Barbie was in trouble and Wanda used her spare key to get into Barbie's apartment at Besley's urging and Barbie was out hold still in the dream room. Leslie asked Wanda to carry Barbie to George's apartment since Wanda was quote unquote the strongest and then Hazel who I'm sorry, is just dumber than a rock points to Wanda's genitals and says, Hey, you have a thingy, which firstly, take a step back, captain obvious. And secondly, so the fuck what? Mike: Yeah. And it goes back to that thing that we were talking about with Hazelwood. It's like, she is suddenly this very, almost childlike person, even though she is a grown ass adult and a queer relationship in New York city. Like, I dunno, it's, it's not great. It feels. Very clumsy. Jessika: It sure did. And I think childlike is, is probably the best way to put it because it did feel that way. Like she was seeing something for the first time and it's like, girl, Mike: it's like you're pregnant. This isn't the first time you seen one  Jessika: seriously,  Mike: anyway.  Jessika: goodness. The party, Firenze, Georges gross poster size picture of Barbie that he has framed up on his wall  Mike: Yup.  Jessika: and is informed that Thessaly has killed George and he is in the bathtub. So Wanda's freaked out by all of this. Of course, I would also be very freaked out at this. not going to lie to you. Mike: Also we need to, we need to Go back. for a second and it's not that George is dead and in the bathtub it's oh no. George is in the bathtub and they go, oh, is he taking a shower? It's weird that he's taking a shower at 2:00 AM. And she's like, no, no, no, no. I killed him. And his body is in the bathtub and that's when the freaking out happens. Jessika: Yeah,  Mike: I thought that was great. I loved it. Jessika: I did too. Cause definitely left the door open to George's house and everyone's like, George. Hello. Mike: Yeah. No.  Jessika: Oh, of course one is freaked out and she says that she's going to leave and she physically cannot. As if by magic, Leslie also says that she is going to get George to talk and starts the disgusting process of doing so she has to remove his eyes, his face skin, and his tongue, this, she actually bid out, which was fucking as fuck. Mike: Yeah, after it looks like she's kissing his skinless face.  Jessika: Uh, yeah, was horrifying and nails these to the wall and then tells George that it's time to come back and horrifyingly. He does come back and WordStar coming from the face nail to the wall and it's gross. So thusly starts to interrogate him about his plans and he begins to tell the group the CU. Wanda is disgusted and runs to the bathroom where she vomits and the rest of the group seemingly is surprisingly calm about the whole thing. I don't know that I would be personally, so Thessaly who is now out for revenge against the cuckoo for, you know, trying to fuck with her in her sleep states that she needs some menstrual blood and asks Fox glove. And when she asks, why she has to with Besley reveals that she has not been straight in a long time, And that Hazel is pregnant, which they definitely do not have time to deal with at the moment. But hill was obviously shocked and upset by the news. And Wanda is told that she can't go onto the next part of their journey because she needs to watch Barbie. But there seems to be an underlying reason after conversing with a being that seemed to be made of light stating that she needs to seek entry into the dream realm. Mike: Oh so it's actually, um, it's the threefold goddess who the fates basically who keep on showing up throughout. So it's, it's that, mother maiden crone, who normally, when we see them, it's, they're different phases, but they're all kind of part of the same amorphous black shape. So , depending on the artist, it's like, one being, but with like, you know, the three different identities at the same time, but it's also the.  Jessika: Yeah. And I didn't get that. It was those three again, so thank you for, Mike: That's something I caught, like on my second or third read through  Jessika: Okay. Well, I feel better about a thumb. Mike: it's. I mean, it's a fleeting moment. They only show up for like a page maybe.  Jessika: Yeah, yeah. Mike: Yeah.  Jessika: meanwhile, on the street, our friend, the I don't like dogs, lady is pointing out to a passer-by that the moon is acting strange, that it had disappeared from the sky. He states that it must be an eclipse, but she says that it just left. It was not like it gradually blacked out like normal eclipse. So Wanda watches us the three women walk into the light and disappear out of the room and the moon reappears in the sky for our friend on the street, Wanda starts questioning her womanhood because she vomited during the interrogation that somehow has makes her less of a woman. But I would argue that I would do the same. That whole situation was so gnarly. Mike: Yeah. it's very pagan ritually. it feels like, old school kind of like druidic, I'm sure that someone's going to get mad at me for saying this, but , it's very pagan, a cult. I don't know the rituals, but it feels like a lot of those things that you read about and fantasy novels that are set in, like our theory and times.  Jessika: Totally. So the head then starts talking to. back in the dream realm, RB and company are making their way to their destination and have some near misses and find some other dead friends along the way the land has suffered since she has been gone, they talk about the cuckoo and how the bird lays its eggs and the nest of others. And once hatch, the young cuckoos push out the other eggs or young of the bird who initially built the nest while also fesses up to Morpheus about having warned Barbie. But he agrees that she did the right thing, princess, Barbara, and party, get to their destination, the sea and send, lose the parrot to get help. Mike: Yeah. And at this point there's only one other companion left. Who's like a, like an aardvark or an anteater.  Oh, is it okay? That was some  Jessika: It's a rat. It's like a, yeah, some rodent where it like  Mike: and a trench  Jessika: a order. Yeah.  It looks like a reporter of a pie. Mike: Yeah. And, as their journey has been going on, it's kind of like, , the group of friends in the horror movie who are slowly getting picked off one by one. and the one That always gets me is the monkey. And I can't remember his name. But he would scout ahead and then he didn't come back and Barbie at one point asks if they think that he's okay and one of them just goes no, and then they go and find his body and it's like, Hmm. Hmm. Jessika: Yeah. That was really. And back at the apartment, this was a very web flashy, one where it's very back and forth. Uh, back at the apartment, Wanda is talking to George's face and she asks him why she was left behind. He says it's because she's a man stating that the moon Magic that was used can only be used by biological women, which yikes. No, no, no, no, I don't. I don't like that one bed. And George also offhandedly states that they should be concerned about the weather. So back in the dream realm, Luiz has betrayed Barbie and brings armed guards to their hiding place on the lift. And they also killed the last remaining member of the party. So Barbie is dragged away by the guards and then is paraded through the town into a small pink house. Mike: Which is the house that she grew up.  Jessika: It is, yeah. It turns out to be a replica of her childhood home. she is also confronted by someone who appears to be her as a child, which is strange. child Barbie starts explaining that she had basically possessed her dreams and was taking over. Barbie becomes more and more visibly weak from being , in the house and around the young doppelganger. Ann Young Barbie leaves the house with her entourage of large dark plaid guards. Mike: While dragging older Barbie with her.  Jessika: Yeah. So back in New York things have started to get wild. A hurricane that had just left, turned around and heads back into town. The women walk a path of Moonlight to the dream realm where thusly fesses up that she's been around a pretty long time and starts in on her plan for revenge. I would not want to cross this lady. It did not take much for her to get pissed off enough to want to kill people. Mike: I mean, I found it pretty relatable.  Jessika: So they run across one of Barbie's failed companions who tells them that the cuckoo Barbie  Mike: Well, they come across the body and then facily resurrects them in a similar manager that she did to George.  Jessika: Correct. Mike: Yeah. And that's how they're able to get him to talk.  Jessika: So during the walk Fox glove and Hazel discuss their future and Fox glove decides to raise the child as theirs and they make up in a sense. in New York, the storm is raging. George is making terrible transphobic jokes from the wall and the woman outside has been caught in the storm. So one helps a woman get inside out of the storm, in the dream realm, young Barbie, as an acting and plan, and has gone out to the most ancient point of the land. The higher gram that's land her two companions start making their way over, but are met by young Barbie who points them over to the threat quote, unquote, stating that lose is the cuckoo and loses a parrot. I might add. So the fact that she's saying the para did it is actually kind of a good assumption to make a Kuku. Fastly goes over confirms with the bird that she is in fact, the cuckoo and strangles her and snaps her neck. when Hazel asks why she did it, she says that the bird had to be taught a lesson. The lesson was that you don't get a second chance, which yeah. Mike: Yeah, Nestle is, uh, the epitome of don't fuck around.  Jessika: yeah. found out. then young Barbie explains to Barbie and the others that the time has come to do what she had been brought here for. Back in New York are I don't like dogs. Friend is named Maisie and she is rightfully creeped out by George's face on the wall siding, bad vibes, which agreed more transphobic questions on some stories from Maisie about another trans family member she had, . It was just bad news bears. Barbie does a, she is told by young Barbie back in the dream realm and slams the porpoise teen into the large stone HIRA gram. And there's a great explosion at which point it's revealed the young Barbie is actually the cuckoo and that her goal, the whole time had been to get Barbie, to destroy the Portland teen and the high program. And then the cuckoo wouldn't be held in the land any longer breaking the spell and the land would subsequently be destroyed. So the necklace also disappears right off of Barbie's sleeping chest back in. Morphine's appears and Stacy, he created the land and puts Barbie back in control of her own mind as she had been Bewitched by the cuckoo and all of the characters of the land start filing past, ending with one dark haired and scarred woman in white, who clearly had history with dream, like every other fucking woman in here. So vessel, he tries to claim the life of the cuckoo. But dream is like, Nope. And states that he's displeased, that she's caused some major shit. Mike: Yeah, he was. If I remember, right. Dream was upset that she had trespassed into the dream realm without his permission.  Jessika: Correct? Yeah. Mike: And it's also implied that her getting the goddess to grant her and foxglove and Hazel passage to the dream realm resulted in the hurricane.  Jessika: Oh no, that was absolutely implied. Yeah. The implication was that if you pull the moon out of the sky,  you're going to fuck with the tides. Yeah. Yeah. so we turn again to New York where that storm is even fiercer than before. And then there is an explosion of weather from outside and the world starts to. In the dream realm, dream states that he owes Barbie a boon and also reveals that Rose Walker, from , our doll's house volume had partially caused this mess. During that fateful night of converging dreams. Barbie asks that she and the other three women get back safe and sound, and they are sent back and we end volume five with a funeral Wanda's funeral. Barbie was pulled from the wreckage and was able to recover, but Wanda amazi did not make it. The funeral was similarly depressing and not just because Wanda had passed away, but because they were using Wanda's dead name and it cut her hair and had put her in men's clothing. And she was buried by her family who clearly had no idea who she really was nor cared to listen to find out. And even the headstone had her dead name listed. So Barbie took out a bright shade of lipstick and wrote Wanda on the headstone Barbie dreams that she sees Wanda with a smiling pale woman wearing black. And she finally seems happy. Mike: do we ever find out where the funeral is being held? It's just, it's implied that it's vaguely south Midwest.  Jessika: She had to travel.  And it did kind of seem in the south. I don't know that we got an exact location.  Mike: Yeah. It was, it. was somewhere, very God-fearing and intolerance of people that are the least bit different.  Jessika: Yeah. Well, what were your overall impressions of this story and who are your favorite least very characters or events of the fifth? Mike: Uh, you know, this volume is a really, it's an interesting change of pace because up until now, we've gotten stories where even if dream wasn't the main character, he played a really prominent role in the narrative, even if he was sitting in the background and this time around, he really doesn't show up a lot. And when he does, it's kind of just a bookend, the story. It's funny because whenever I talk about something that Neil Gaiman wrote and I'm like, oh, it's not my favorite thing. It's still better than 95% of things that I've read. this is not one of my favorite Sandman stories. Part of it is just because it's, it does provide that, that whiplash that you get where we're pivoting back and forth between the dream realm and New York. And there is a clumsiness too, to a lot of the characters, like we've already talked about Hazel. I feel like new Haven was trying to provide a narrative where someone who is trans is human, because he has several scenes with Wanda where Wanda talks about it and is very adamant that she is a woman and the story, the narrative doesn't judge or mocker for that. But , as you said, George is gross and transphobic, which makes sense. And, Maisie that the homeless lady is kinder. but you know, there, there is still that moment of are you a man or a woman? and then she relates the story about her grandson. it's not explained if he was just very femininely gay or if he was trans. Um, but she sounds like she was supportive of him, but then , he got killed during some sort of hotel hookup, which, I mean, that was a real risk with gay culture. Like, you know, especially during that time. I think it's one of the Columbia, your stories of the overall Sandman series. I don't think it's bad, but viewed through a 20, 21 lens, I think he could stand some revision. I don't know. I, my, my opinion is pretty much my opinion, I think, has the least value in, in any conversation about gender identity, because I'm a CIS white guy.  Back on track, uh, did it, did it, uh, you know, I, I did actually really enjoy how we got to see some of the characters from the doll's house return, especially Barbie. it's really frustrating that I kept on thinking that we had seen Wanda in the doll's house. And it turns out that that was some misleading copy. That kind of made me think that like, oh, sorry. I liked how we got to see more of a strange fairies hill of a dream from that book and how it was spun out into a larger story that had a bunch of twists and turns. I don't know if I had a least favorite character, honestly, like, yeah, the Kuku is a hateful character, but I also thought it was kind of interesting that, that she was trying to kill Barbie so that she could exist. And then I don't think the cuckoo shows up again. I think the cuckoo just like bounces after this, when she flies off. I for some reason, like, I remember when I thought the KUKA was going to come back and be an even bigger batter nastier villain, but I don't think that happens. I could be wrong. It's been awhile, but I don't think it does. I thought was a really great character. Like we already talked about how, the way that they actually reveal that there's a lot more to where character and also how she is just straight out of Fox all the way through the story. and then, I guess, I guess my least favorite character is Hazel's character and it's not because of anything that was really wrong with her role in the story. It was just, she was very clumsily writ.  Jessika: Yeah, Mike: like I said, I think she just comes across as dumb at the most convenient and unbelievable times. It's just, it's too coincidental where at one point she's asking about like, oh, well, don't, you have to kill a rabbit to like, what, what was it like she was asking about like to perform an abortion or,  or  Jessika: see if you're pregnant. Cause that  Mike: yeah. Like, come on, okay.  Jessika: Yeah, actual most ridiculous thing. I know. Mike: , I don't know. Like, do you agree to disagree? Like, I feel like I might be reading too much into this just with my own thoughts, but  Jessika: Oh no I was, I was pretty disappointed in how this whole thing was written. I'm not gonna lie to you. I was disappointed in the transphobia. Let's start there.  Mike: yeah.  Jessika: It just felt like the entire volume, it may have been done with the intention of bringing to light some of the challenges that trans women face like deadnaming or of constantly being told that genitalia is what makes one, a woman or the idea that to do trans correctly, you need to get surgery or the blatant violence against trans people. But I don't think enough was done to highlight someone doing the right thing and giving example of allowing someone to just live their life genuinely. And Barbie is a good example of a somewhat decent advocate, but I wish that the lesbians in the building had done more to be open or even just not completely stupid about the situation. It just felt really TERF-y  Mike: Yeah.  Jessika: Which, you know, to, to explain for any of you who don't know a turf as it's trans exclusionary, radical feminist, which is just a way to say you don't want trans women in your fucking woman club for some fucking odd reason. Mike: Yeah, And I mean, back in 1991, when this was written, that wasn't really a thing like, gender queerness, wasn't really a known thing. It was your transsexual  like, did you ever see the movie soap dish with Sally field and Whoopi Goldberg and Elizabeth shoe and Kevin Klein?  Jessika: No.  Mike: It's a really funny movie up until the last 10 minutes, uh, where it's, it's about the cast of a soap opera and how the behind the scenes stuff is even more ridiculous than what's going on in the soap opera. It's great. But then the last 10 minutes or so it's revealed that the villain who's been pulling everyone's puppet strings, , she's , publicly humiliated by being outed on live television as a trans woman. And that's the punchline. in, 1991, This was considered wildly funny. this is an example of how our views have changed in the past 30 years. for the better where we can look at this and say, this is, this is not great.  Jessika: Yeah. I mean, it's still happening though. And that's it, it's still a very real problem within the, you know, the LGBTQ plus community.  Mike: a hundred percent.  Jessika: Yeah. It's just in the end, I felt like there were no lessons learned by the people who had been the most transphobic. Mike: Yeah, I mean, cause George, we knew was going to be terrible. , and then Hazel and Fox glove, there was no. resolution on that because by the time that they get back, Wanda's dead.  Jessika: Yeah. Yup. And which that also felt refrigerators. Like you're going to kill off the one trans person, like okay. Mike: Yeah. And there's the, the happy ending of, we see Wanda perfect. And in this amazing dress with death, waving goodbye to say farewell to Barbie, which is it's. I mean it's  Jessika: But she, but my problem with that is she looks a little bit different. Like she looks more feminine and  she looks more in it's. That's not necessarily what, and I mean, I'm not trans, so I can't speak to this experience, but to me ha, having known people and talk to their experience, that's not necessarily what they want. They don't want to be a totally different person. They just want to be them genuinely. Mike: Yeah. I mean, I certainly can't speak for people who are trans or gender fluid, or, or anything in that realm. Like that is well outside my wheelhouse. I can just say, I agree with you. It feels achy.  Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and yeah, since, no real lessons , were learned. I mean, maybe that's the real message that people don't fucking learn. And if so, thank you. That's goddamn. Depressing. Mike: Yeah. The one nice moment was when Barbie wrote Wanda's name on her tombstone and the bright lipstick, that was nice because you know, it was loud and it was flamboyant and it was very much everything about Wanda's personality, but it was really dissatisfying as an ending.  Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Did you have a favorite art moment in this volume? Mike: I'm not sure that I had a favorite art moment, but I was really affected every time one of Barbie's friends died or where she found their bodies. like it, it genuinely made me sad. You know, I've already talked about how, when they found per natto, the monkeys corpse and how it was really sad, but Martin 10 bones and his expression right before the cop shot him, because he just looked, it was that look of, oh, I found my friend , and I've got the message, but like, it, uh, it reminded me of the time that I'd take my dog into the vet to put them down.  Jessika: Mm. Hmm. Mike: you know, and that's, it's, it's that moment where you, uh, when you're holding the dog and it's like, oh, everything's okay. And then they give him the shot and he gives you this look just fucking rips you apart every time. So not really, uh, not really a favorite moment, but definitely in effecting one.  Jessika: Oh, you're trying to get me go on to, Mike: Yeah. Um, I dunno. What about you?  Jessika: well, I really enjoyed how they did the color and line work and the moon.  Mike: Yeah, those were cool. Jessika: Yeah, it was neat to see how they use the negative space and implied shapes using lions. And it also made me feel like I was a part of the scene. There was almost like I had to shield my own eyes from the full white pages. Mike: Yeah. that was, that was neat. Jessika: any final thoughts about this volume before we move on? Mike: like I said, it's not really my favorite. I keep thinking about Hazel and Fox glove. And it's interesting because like Fox glove was, , the girlfriend of the woman who put out her own eyes with the forks or , the, the skewers and the diner,  Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. I figured you were going to bring that up. I was, I was like, how can I condense this  crazy story? Mike: Yeah. And so that, I, that was kind of a neat throwback because I remember Fox glove is like a very, it's like a throwaway name or something like that. And then I think her name is Julie shows up in the jacket that she was wearing and her eyes , are not visible during the nightmares when everyone's being plagued by the Cuckoo's Binion's. I will say that moment where Hazel and Fox glove are first in the dreaming and Fox lava sitting there and basically screaming at Hazel about getting pregnant and it feels like it's going to get real ugly. And she's like, when we get back, I'm gonna , call you all sorts of names and tell you how dumb you are and do you know how much it's going to cost for us to raise a baby. and she's like, we're going to have to buy one of those stupid expensive books to name the kid. And I was like, oh, Okay. , and then they're holding hands by the end of that page. And it's, it's sweet. that story continues actually in a couple of mini series about death, that, that game in road. And they're really good. they've got their own sense of tragedy and everything, but they're, they're solid, I don't know, it's not my favorite , but it does a lot of things that are really interesting. And I also think that it leads to some really cool stuff down the road.  Jessika: Let's move on to volume six, Mike: Okay.  Jessika: titled fables . And flections. This was originally published in single magazine form as the Sandman 29 through 31 38 through 40 50 Sandman special one and vertigo preview one between 1991 and 1993. So very much a true compilation written by Neil Gaiman illustrated by Brian Talbot, Stan wool, Craig Russell, Sean McManus, Jon Watkiss, Jill Thompson, Duncan Eagleson and Kent Williams. And this was very much a, an anthology of a bunch of different stories that didn't necessarily tie together as a, an overarching plot like previous volume did. Mike: Yeah. it's very much like dream country just with about double the cost.  Jessika: Yeah, Yeah, exactly. The first story is fear of falling. A musical theater writer and director who is wanting to give up right before his show. While sleeping. He is visited by Morpheus who ends up inspiring him to take the leap of courage. It took to finish his project to completion. Next up was destined mirrors, three Septembers and a January the story of the emperor of the United States. Here's the scene. San Francisco, 1859. Dream is drawn into a contest with his siblings, desire to spare and delirium, to see who could push a man to his death, each trying different tactics to try to lure him into one of those emotions. When Morpheus entered the scene, he basically just gave the man his exact dream. He wanted to be king and Morpheus stated that he was the emperor of the USA. He starts making proclamations about his claim to the throne and starts gaining popularity and the charity of the town around him. And he actually becomes famous for being the emperor and is even sought after, by tourists, visiting San Francisco. He has called crazy at times, but does not fall prey to madness desires, unable to tempt him as he already has everything he dreams of and despair was never in the picture. After his dreams came true. He was truly content and dream had won the contest death swoops in looking stylish as ever and leads. Mike: Yeah. And emperor Norton is actually someone who really existed in San Francisco. Like he's a part of our local history and  Jessika: I  didn't know that. Mike: yeah, no he's emperor, Joshua Norton, the imaginary emperor. he's a really cool part of San Francisco lore and I highly recommend, , reading up on him if he ever get the chance. he's one of my favorite stories about the city that. I grew up in.  Jessika: Oh, I'm definitely gonna look into that now. Cause I mean, I love just a Stone's throw away and I can't believe I've never heard that before. Mike: Yeah.  Jessika: The next story is mirrors Thermador said in England in 1794 with Morpheus, just swooping into the home of Johanna Constantine. And I'm sure that name sounds familiar in the middle of the nights and I'm not going to lie. It was really creepy when he was just like Nabu, all your people are asleep, just you and I. Sugar was like big. Nope. Mike: Yeah.  Jessika: And then he's like, Hey, I have this super dangerous mission. UN she's all, but what's in it for me. And apparently she just believes in vague promises and agrees to help with him and with his family matter that he needs a mortal to intercede in. And it. Then it is post the French revolution. The reign of terror is in full swing and Johannah gets caught sneaking through the town late at night with a decapitated head in a bag, you know, casual Mike: who hasn't been out on a Saturday night with a human head and their satchel come on.  Jessika: Mr. Al of late God. Once you got my bag, nothing you'd be interested in. So She ultimately gets picked up by the law sands head and as kept as a prisoner under a further threat, if she does not tell them where the head is, this whole thing about like her spreading superstitions or some bullshit. Mike: , Yeah, because robes Pierre was all about reason and eliminating superstition and religion. If I remember my high school history,  Jessika: you are correct. Is that whole logic piece, which he was just going off about. So she dreams a little dream and visits, Morpheus and reveals that the head is Morpheus, a son Orpheus,  so Joe had a basically says, this is your fight, but I'm in the ring little hope over here, Hugh the extra creep factor where the law rightfully figures out that she probably hit the head with all the other heads and go tell her to fetch the one they're looking for. Johanna gets the head, props it up, covers her ears. And tells Orpheus to sing. It drives the map, puts them in a trance unclear, but she is able to get away and get Orpheus to a little island paradise where he has previously been. We also come to find out that Morpheus is quite the absentee parent. , it was so sad. There was this part where Orpheus asks Johannah basically does this mean he cares about me and she's like, dunno. Mike: Yeah, it's a, anyone that's grown up with with strained relationships to their parents, like can just feel that gut.  Jessika: Yeah. The fourth story is convergence. The hunt. So we find ourselves this time in a story within a story. Uh, grandfather tells his begrudging granddaughter, a tale about a man named Vaseline who becomes obsessed with finding a Duke's daughter based on a measure painting that was given to him by a Romani peddler, as he goes off in search of this woman, he has never met. He first encounters, the Romani peddler that had given him the miniature she is dead on the forest path, that he just swoops her bag of items and moves off through the forest. He meets several characters along the way, including Baba Yaga and a tall slender librarian, each particularly interested in one of the stolen items. He was peddling one night while hunting a dearest his target is taken out by a woman of the forest who factors into the story a little bit later upon reaching the Duke's mansion. He is led to a dungeon to rot, but is saved by the tall librarian who really, really, really wanted that book because it turns out the book is from the dream realm and Morpheus would be  very, very,  displeased. Should it not be returned? Mike: We've met the librarian before in passing, he's Lucy in the librarian of the dream realm. Like he's the first one that Morpheus basically reintroduces himself to once he gets back to the dream realm preludes and Nocturnes, but like he doesn't show up a lot. , it's one of those things where he's kind of like a central figure to the dreaming, but he doesn't show up a lot in the stories. , I don't remember. I think he may have appeared in passing in season of the mists. I can't remember, but anyway, sorry. His name is Lucien. Like that's, That's all I was trying to,  right?  Jessika: So in exchange for the book, Morpheus takes Vasily to the woman's room, but when he gets there, vastly simply looks at her and gives her the necklace back saying this belongs to you later on in his life. He runs back into the woman who took down the deer while there are both in Wolf form. And at the end of the story, the granddaughter assumes that her grandfather has made up the story to assuage her from dating her current boyfriend. But an ending comment, lets the reader know that the story may have some truth after all. Mike: that was one of my favorite closing modes. I I'm not gonna lie.  Jessika: It was sweet. So our next tale distant mirrors. focuses on Julius. Caesar's next of Ken Augustus, who after a dream decides that he must live one day in the life of a beggar. So he calls upon an actor who happens to be a , little person to assist him in getting into the role for the day and show him the ropes. They start by making artificial boils on their faces and arms. They dress and rags and take to the streets in a dream, he was approached by Morpheus who knew about his troubled past being brutalized by the man. He looked up to the man, a whole empire looked up to, there was also this whole situation with there being two different futures. Augustus had read the prophecies, edited some destroyed others so that that overall people wouldn't know what was truly predicted. And so that he could make his own course of choosing by being a baker one day a year, he was not being watched by Julius and the other gods and therefore could plan without them watching after Augustus's death, the actor who had accompanied him that day wrote the story of his day with the emperor. However, the harsh details of Augustus's life remained a mystery that he himself took to. Next up. We once again, go back in time with convergence. Soft places. If you don't have whiplash yet, just wait. You will get it by the end of this episode. But this time we go to see Marco polo who was lost in the desert and having the most odd dream. He runs into a person who says his cellmate is named Marco polo and they that run into our buddy Fiddler's green or Gilbert, who we saw in the doll's house who tries to impart a lesson on Marco polo. Marco thinks that he is going to be stuck in the dreaming, but when he emerges, he is back with his father and was only a few hundred feet away from the party upon waking Marco forgets the dream. He was just a part of the Seventh story is the song of Orpheus we again, meet Orpheus this time, his head is still firmly attached to his neck and he is going to be married that day. His friend, is also at the wedding along with Morpheus and all of Morpheus as sibling. The bride reminds, era status of his long dead wife. And during the wedding, he requests a private meeting with Eurydice fading, a need for assistance. He states his intention to rape her and goes to grab her, but she needs him and runs off where she steps on and is bitten by a poisonous snake and dies right there. Orpheus realizes that she is no longer around and panics asking if something has happened to her grieving, the loss of his bride Orpheus seeks help from berserk his father than his aunt death, demanding that she bring her back death states that she cannot, that Euridice is any underworld now, and that he is unable to go and come back as he is a mortal after more prompting, she does state that she is able to just not collect him basically. And he would survive coming back from the underworld, but she also tells him that this is not what he wants and that he should go home. Or if he is however, it does the exact opposite and begins his journey to the gate death had described. So he makes his way to the underworld where he's buried across the river sticks and makes his way past Cerberus the three headed dog and through the endless amount of people in the underworld, he gets to Hades and Persephone who asked him for a song. And he asks for his wife back and plays a haunting melody that brings the underworld to a halt. Hades states that he could have his wife back, but that she will follow him as a shadow up and out of the underworld. The one rule was that he could not look behind him before he reached the exit of the underworld, or she would go back down. He made it almost all the way there, but started doubting thinking that he was the butt of Hades, this joke. But when he turned around, he saw Eurydice just before she was dragged back into the other world. Orpheus broke the surface alone and screamed understanding that he had just bought his only chance to have his bride back. Time-lapse Orpheus as many years older and living in solitude, he is visited by his mother, Kelly OB, who had a falling out with Morpheus after he would not assist Orpheus with his quest to bring back your IDC is not interested in talking with her, but she wants him. The picante are on their way and that he should leave as soon as possible. So she disappears and soon after the forest breaks out and cries, a crowd of naked women covered in wine and blood are running right towards him and ask that he take part in their rituals of sex, wine, and eating raw flesh. He states that he cannot participate as his heart belongs to someone else. And they basically say, yeah, we weren't asking. And they literally rip him apart. And eventually decapitate him, sending his head, flying into a river. He, of course can't die. So he's just stuck, literally rolling on a river. Mike: Yeah. It's very much the stories that Orpheus is known for. Everybody knows him from the story of him and URI dicey, but, surprise. There is actually a major part of Greek mythology where he gets ripped apart by boxes, insane followers  and yeah. You're I find you don't want to take part in the ritual. we're going to turn you into one of the ritual supplies and just eat. Yeah,  Jessika: Yeah, pretty much. So Orpheus the head washes a shore and Morpheus comes to see him. He wants to say, goodbye has arranged for Orpheus to be taken care of, but says the he'll never see Orpheus again. His life is his own next is convergence parliament of Rooks.. We visit Daniel and Hippolyta again, she puts Daniel down to nap and he wanders into the dream realm where he goes to the house of secrets and is with Matthew Eve and Abel Eve tells the story of Adam's three wives and Abel after Kane interrupts of course tells a very optimistic and happy version of their story, where everybody got along after all. And after all was said and done, Hippolyta has no idea that Daniel has gone anywhere while he was napping. Mike: we keep getting hints dropped about Daniel and it's gonna play out in a very big way later on.  Jessika: I'm excited. So our last story distant mirrors, Ramadan is about the king of Baghdad, who has everything. Anyone could want ruling over a prosperous city. However, something still feels wrong to him. So he goes down into the secret depths of the palace where numerous wonders were kept. You procures a ball, which holds multitudes of basically like bad vibe entities. He summons Morpheus stating that he would break the ball, therefore releasing all of the bad vibes if Morpheus didn't appear. And when he actually follows through and drops the ball, Morpheus catches, it takes it and asks, why have you summoned me in, what the fuck do you want? The king wanted to trade control of his city in order to ensure that it was going to last forever. Morpheus agreed, but in true Morpheus fashion, he put the city in a jar and left the man to be the king of a city in shambles. So Mike overall impressions of a story, favorite characters or. Mike: Yeah. like I said, this one is a lot like dream country and there's one more volume later on where we get the one-shot stories to provide us with breathers, , , from the overall narrative. They were printed, as they were in, in various orders, but then DC collected them into the different volumes in ways. That makes more sense. but it's interesting because in this case we got a collection of stories without another prolonged round of like soul crushing horror and dark fantasy. I think the anthology volumes actually do a lot to move Sandman from the realm of horror and more into the realm of fantasy, because a lot of the times the individual stories aren't as dark or, as, as brutal. like a lot of times they're a little bit more philosophical or meditative, but I liked them a lot, but I mean, I only own, two issues of Sandman like individual. and one of them is issue number eight, which is the first appearance of death. And the other one is issue 31, which is the one that features three Septembers in a January. The story about . I love that story about Norden. I think that one's great. We already talked about how he was a real person and, he is this really interesting character out of history who is both the epitome , of kind of the magic of a dream and also what you can achieve even when you're faced with a ton of tragedy, because he was actually almost, I think he was basically completely wiped out due to a bad rice shipment and he did die penniless. And at the same time, San Francisco fucking loved him. Like they kept standing, box tickets for him at the symphony on opening night He was arrested once by an officer and the judge actually did immediately dismiss him when he was brought before him. And basically said like, , as an emperor, he is never declared war. He's never tried to invade anyone. He hasn't done terrible things. Other emperors should be like him. And I loved, how desire tried to tempt him with the ghost of a, dead snake oil salesman and the other bit where it turns out he had, like a Chinese information network, , where it turns out that the Chinese populace of San Francisco, which was hugely prevalent at the time, because of the gold rush and. Other things. , I loved the idea that he actually did have , this amazing fantastical life that was already fantastical, but then there were even more elements of fantasy woven into it. and then the other one is, , the parliament of ropes. It's , the story of Cain and Abel and Eve, you know, the purlin or Rooks hits me in a personal way because the bit we're able tells the story about him and Kane and, it's what this person who, who just idolized his brother wanted from the relationship, even though they do have their own strange in certain ways loving relationship, but also Cain murders able on a regular basis throughout the series. And it made me think about, how I stopped talking to my brother a number of years ago, but I still think about him a lot. And I wish that things were different between us, like. I often wonder what things would have been like if we had wound up being slightly different people and I construct those fantasies in my head still sometimes, but yeah. honestly I like this a lot better than I like that. I like the previous volume, because it gives me a lot more to think about, um, I don't know. How do you feel about it?  Jessika: Yeah, I, you know, it's funny as I actually really liked the story of Joshua, the emperor of the United States,  Mike: Yeah.  Jessika: I really like how they kept the narrative bag, leaving the reader wavering between believing that he really had been successful in his reign as the legitimate emperor of the U S or if he was just some sweet old man who was really well-liked well-respected and generally taken care of by this town of other really eccentric. Mike: Yeah. And it turns out the truth is a little bit of both.  Jessika: Yeah, Yeah, I guess so. I mean, he did get out of, out of a core thing, huh? Mike: Well, and when he died, basically, he was going to be put in a Popper's grave. And I believe like the merchants association basically paid for a really Swank funeral and of people  came to the viewing like, you know, but thousands of people turned out for.  Jessika: what I'm going to research this  so sweet.  Mike: Hmm,  Jessika: Yeah. I thought it was really wholesome that he was just so content to have the title of emperor. He didn't have some weird power trip about colonizing or being otherwise oppressive. I would say that that was genuinely refreshing to see him just so content to be valued and validated. Oh shit. That's all I want, Mike: that's all, any of us want. Also, I liked that he hung out with mark Twain and the story, and I don't know if he and mark Twain were friends in real life, but mark Twain was a reporter in San Francisco. after he got run out of the state of Nevada,  Jessika: maybe we'll have to specifically look at up. Well, did you have a favorite art moment in this volume? Mike: I had to, I really liked the art of the hunt, which is the story of the grandfather. Cause it felt really like, it felt really scratchy and you're kind of reminded me of those old European crosshatched wood prints. And then that actually makes sense because I realized it was inked by this guy named Vince Locke. And he's this guy who he actually illustrated a bunch of tabletop role-playing games for white Wolf games in the 1990s. And then he also created the comic that the movie, a history of violence was based off of. If you remember that. Jessika: I do. Mike: but like, I always really liked his style. Like I thought it was really cool and really unique. He's done a lot of other cool stuff as well. He had a comic series called dead world that was a zombie apocalypse kind of comic. If I remember right , well, before the walking dead ever came along like, you know, 30 years. , and then there's the whole issue of Ramadan, which is the story set in Baghdad. so Ramadan was illustrated by P Craig Russell and Russell was a, the first openly gay comic creator. and he's still working today in his art style. It's just, it's one of the most fucking beautiful things you'll ever see. And it's really adaptable into a bunch o

Indagare Global Conversations
Travel Experts Talk: Where to Go in 2022

Indagare Global Conversations

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 11, 2021 46:24


Where should you travel in the new year ahead? Melissa Biggs Bradley talks with travel experts about the top destinations for 2022 from the U.S. and the Caribbean to Europe, Africa, South America, Asia and beyond, Plus, top hotel news, tips on how to navigate the ever-shifting travel landscape in the coming months and much more.

The Steve Gruber Show
Steve Gruber, It‘s all about the economy and it is not doing well.

The Steve Gruber Show

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 10, 2021 11:00


Live from the no panic zone—I'm Steve Gruber—I am America's Voice— I am Fierce and Fearless— I am here to tell the truth—I mean lets be honest—somebody has to—And—I'm the guy—   Here are three big Things you need to know right now—   ONE— A U-S metallurgist has lied about the strength of steel in U-S submarines since 1985—the entire fleet could be at rish because of just one traitor—   TWO— Build back better is a damned joke—when you realize it would result in the highest taxes of any western nation—that's right Joe Bidens plan would make America a desert of economic activity—   THREE— Its all about the economy—and it is not doing well—  

SBS Armenian - SBS Հայերէն
The US opens it borders to those who've had WHO-approved vaccines - ԱՄՆ սահմանները կը բանայ անոնց համար որոնք ՀԱԿ-ի կողէ վաւերացուած պատուաստներ ստացած են

SBS Armenian - SBS Հայերէն

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 9, 2021 3:56


The Biden administration is pushing vaccine mandates for big employers, as the U-S opens it borders to those who've received W-H-O-approved vaccines. Many nations are experiencing a new surge in COVID-19 infections as the world nears the 250 million infections mark. - Պայտըն կառավարութիւնը ճնշում կը բանեցնէ որ մեծ գործատէրեր պարտադրեն պատուաստումը, և միեւնոյն ժամանակ, Միացեալ Նահանգներ իր սահմանները կը բանայ անոնց համար որոնք Համաշխարհային Առողջապահութեան Կազմակերպութեան կողմէ վաւերացուած պատուաստներ ստացած են:

Hometown History
The Hunt for the Friends of Dorothy

Hometown History

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 8, 2021 14:46


We've named this episode after The Hunt for the Red October because it's kind of like that, but instead of a Soviet submarine, the search is on for a powerful sleeper agent, known to the US government only as Dorothy. The year is 1981, and her network of associates has infiltrated the U.S. military to the extent that the Department of Defense has concerns over national security, both at home and abroad. In simpler terms, this episode is about an attempt to uncover and exterminate the presence of homosexuality in the American armed forces.Visit us online at itshometownhistory.comSupport our podcast by becoming a patron at Patreon.com/itshometownhistoryEpisode Sponsor:- Grow your business with Shopify today - go to shopify.com/hometown for a FREE 14-day trial- Download Best Fiends FREE today on the App Store or Google Play

The Steve Gruber Show
Steve Gruber, It really is all about the economy and how much everything costs, how many people are still not working, how the supply chain is like a chain reaction pile-up on the freeway

The Steve Gruber Show

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 8, 2021 11:00


Live from the no panic zone—I'm Steve Gruber—I am America's Voice— I am Fierce and Fearless— I am here to tell the truth—I mean lets be honest—somebody has to—And—I'm the guy—   Here are three big Things you need to know right now—   ONE— One of the world's largest investment firms—will now have to get permission to hire a white guy—no— you heard me right—I am the declared enemy of the socialist left— OK—I accept!   TWO— Where is Governor Gavin Newsome? He has not been seen in public since getting a covid booster shot way back on October 27th—he has cancelled all public appearances too—hmmmm—   THREE— It really is all about the economy—and how much everything costs—how many people are still not working—how the supply chain is like a chain reaction pile-up on the freeway—   This is happening while President Biden is talking about paying illegal aliens hundreds of thousands of dollars—by falsely claiming—the U-S somehow lost their kids—yeah—lost their kids—after they came across the border illegally—   But after the crushing defeats handed to the Democrats all over the country last week—you'd think they would be on track to solve some problems for average Americans—But it is not seeming that way at all—   Not in the least in fact—it seems more like they are ready to rub your faces in it—even as the Presidents approval ratings fall to their lowest level yet—   You would think—the economy might be really important—to make sure—they survive the mid-term elections next year—well—you'd be wrong—  

[Abridged] Presidential Histories
22.) Grover Cleveland 1885-1889

[Abridged] Presidential Histories

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 8, 2021 36:26


What do you do when your party hasn't won a presidential election in 28 years? You find an outsider and roll the dice. Grover Cleveland's political career was less than three years old when the Democratic party nominated him for president in 1884, but that guaranteed a candidate with a clean record - or so they thought. Get ready for a sex scandal that will have Republicans famously taunting, "Ma, Ma, where's my Pa?" and ultimately victorious Democrats rejoining, "Gone to the White House, ha, ha, ha!" Follow along as Cleveland buys his way out of serving in the civil war, jumps into law in politics, and rockets from Buffalo Mayor, to New York Governor, to U.S. President in three short years. He'll lose reelection in 1888, but don't worry, we'll see him again four years later.Bibliography1. Grover Cleveland – Henry F. Graff2. Benjamin Harrison – Charles W. Calhoun3. The President and the Assassin: McKinley, Terror, and Empire at the Dawn of the American Century – Scott Miller4. T.R. the last Romantic – H.R. BrandsSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/AbridgedPresidentialHistories)

Weekend Roundup
Weekend Roundup 11/05

Weekend Roundup

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 6, 2021 39:59


On the CBS News "Weekend Roundup" with host Allison Keyes; Huge new developments in the battle against COVID-19. Pfizer announces an experimental antiviral pill that cuts rates of hospitalization and deaths by nearly 90 percent. CBS's Elaine Cobbe and Dr. David Agus have the latest.The CDC has given a thumbs up to Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine for kids between the ages of 5 and 11. Pediatric expert Dr. Vikas Dharnidharka at Washington University joins Allison with what this means for families. President Biden addressed the nation Saturday morning after the Democratic-led US House passed his $1 trillion infrastructure package. He calls it a monumental step forward, and says it is a once-in-a-generation investment that will create millions of jobs. CBS's Nikole Killion reports on what this means. Allison takes us to the funeral for the late General Colin Powell. In this week's Kaleidoscope, Allison looks at reports of families in Afghanistan being forced to sell their daughters -- or body parts -- in order to afford food. This comes amid the ongoing fallout from the Taliban takeover and U-S withdrawal. We hear from Kevin Schumacher, deputy executive director of the non-profit Women for Afghan Women. Finally, a positive story about climate change and the best known butterfly in North America. Reporter Devin Fehely has the story. This and much more on this week's CBS News Weekend Roundup.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Craig Peterson's Tech Talk
You Know How To Use Fake Email Addresses to Stay Safe?

Craig Peterson's Tech Talk

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 5, 2021 64:01


If you follow my newsletter, you probably saw what I had in the signature line the last few weeks: how to make a fake identity. Well, we're going to take it a little bit differently today and talk about how to stop spam with a fake email. [Automated transcript follows] [00:00:16] Email is something that we've had for a long time. [00:00:19] I think I've told you before I had email way back in the early eighties, late seventies, actually. So, yeah, it's been a while and I get tens of thousands of email every day, uh, sent to my domain, you know, mainstream.net. That's my company. I've had that same domain name for 30 years and, and it just kinda got out of control. [00:00:46] And so we have. Big Cisco server, that exclusively filters email for us and our clients. And so it cuts down the tens of thousands to a very manageable couple of hundred a day. If you think that's manageable and it gets sort of almost all of the fishing and a lot of the spam and other things that are coming. [00:01:09] But, you know, there's an easier way to do this. Maybe not quite as effective, but allowing you to track this whole email problem and the spam, I'm going over this in some detail in. Coming bootcamp. So make sure we keep an eye on your emails. So you know about this thing again, it's free, right? I do a lot of the stuff just to help you guys understand it. [00:01:34] I'm not trying to, you know, just be June to submission to buy something. This is a boot camp. My workshops, my boot camps, my emails, they are all about informing you. I try to make them the most valuable piece of email. During the week. So we're going to go into this in some detail in this upcoming bootcamp. [00:01:55] But what we're looking at now is a number of different vendors that have gotten together in order to help prevent some of the spam that you might've been in. Uh, I think that's a very cool idea to have these, these sometimes temporary, sometimes fake email addresses that you can use. There's a company out there called fast to mail. [00:02:20] You might want to check them out. There's another company called apple. And you might might want to check them out. I'll be talking about their solution here as well. But the idea is why not just have one email address? And if you're an apple user, even if you don't have the hardware, you can sign up for an apple account. [00:02:42] And then once you have that account, you can use a new feature. I saw. Oh, in, in fact, in Firefox, if you use Firefox at all, when there's a form and it asks for an email address, Firefox volunteers to help you make a fake ish email address. Now I say fake ish, because it's a real email address that forwards to your normal regular. [00:03:10] Email address. And as part of the bootcamp, I'm also going to be explaining the eight email addresses, minimum eight, that you have to have what they are, how to get them, how to use them. But for now you can just go online to Google and this will get you started and do a search for Apple's new hide. My email feature. [00:03:30] This lets you create random email addresses and those email addresses. And up in your regular, uh, icloud.com or me.com, whatever you might have for your email address, address that apple has set up for you. Isn't that cool. And you can do that by going into your iCloud settings. And it's part of their service that are offering for this iCloud plus thing. [00:03:57] And they've got three different fi privacy focused services, right? So in order to get this from apple, so you can create these unlimited number of rather random looking emails, for instance, a blue one to six underscore cat I cloud.com that doesn't tell anybody. Who you are, and you can put a label in there. [00:04:21] What's the name of the website that, that, or the, the, a URL of the website, the two created this email for, and then a note so that you can look at it later on to try new member and that way. Site that you just created it for in this case, this is an article from CNET. They had an account@jamwirebeats.com. [00:04:45] This is a weekly music magazine subscription that they had. And apple generated this fake email address, blue one to 600 score Canada, cobb.com. Now I can hear you right now. Why would you bother doing that? It sounds like a lot of work. Well, first of all, it's not a whole lot of work, but the main reason to do that, If you get an email address to blue cat, one, two6@icloud.com and it's supposedly from bank of America, you instantly know that is spam. [00:05:23] That is a phishing email because it's not using the email address you gave to TD bank. No it's using the email address that it was created for one website jam wire beats.com. This is an important feature. And that's what I've been doing for decades. Email allows you to have a plus sign. In the email address and Microsoft even supports it. [00:05:53] Now you have to turn it on. So I will use, for instance, Craig, plus a Libsyn as an example@craigpeterson.com and now emails that Libson wants to send me. I'll go to Craig. Libsyn@craigpeterson.com. Right? So the, the trick here is now if I get an email from someone other than libs, and I know, wait a minute, this isn't Libsyn, and that now flags, it has a phishing attack, right. [00:06:28] Or at the very least as some form of spam. So you've got to keep an eye out for that. So you got to have my called plus, and if. Pay for the premium upgrade, which ranges from a dollar to $10. Uh, you you've got it. Okay. If you already have an iCloud account, your account automatically gets upgraded to iCloud plus as part of iOS 15, that just came out. [00:06:55] All right. So that's one way you can do it. If you're not an apple fan. I already mentioned that Firefox, which is a browser has a similar feature. Uh, Firefox has just been crazy about trying to protect your privacy. Good for them, frankly. Right? So they've been doing a whole lot of stuff to protect your privacy. [00:07:17] However, there you are. They have a couple of features that get around some of the corporate security and good corporate security people have those features block because it makes it impossible for them to monitor bad guys that might hack your account. So that's another thing you can look at is Firefox. [00:07:37] Have a look@fastmail.com. And as I said, we're going to go into this in some detail in the bootcamp, but fast mail lets you have these multiple email accounts. No, they restricted. It's not like apple where it's an infinite number, but depending on how much you pay fast mail is going to help you out there. [00:07:57] And then if you're interested, by the way, just send an email to me, me. Craig peterson.com. Please use that email address emmy@craigpeterson.com because that one is the one that's monitored most closely. And just ask for my report on email and I've got a bunch of them, uh, that I'll be glad to send you the gets into some detail here, but proton mail. [00:08:22] Is a mail service that's located in Switzerland? No, I know of in fact, a couple of a high ranking military people. I mean really high ranking military people that are supposedly using proton mail. I have a proton mail account. I don't use it that much because I have so much else going on, but the advantage. [00:08:45] Proton mail is it is in Switzerland. And as a general rule, they do not let people know what your identity is. So it's kind of untraceable. Hence these people high up in the department of defense, right. That are using proton mail. However, it is not completely untraceable. There is a court case that a proton man. [00:09:12] I don't know if you'd say they lost, but proton mail was ordered about a month ago to start logging access and provide it for certain accounts so they can do it. They are doing it. They don't use it in most cases, but proton mail is quite good. They have a little free level. Paid levels. And you can do all kinds of cool stuff with proton mail. [00:09:35] And many of you guys have already switched, uh, particularly people who asked for my special report on email, because I go into some reasons why you want to use different things. Now there's one more I want to bring up. And that is Tempa mail it's temp-mail.org. Don't send anything. That is confidential on this. [00:09:57] Don't include any credit card numbers, nothing. Okay. But temp-mail.org will generate a temporary email address. Part of the problem with this, these temporary email address. Is, they are blocked at some sites that really, really, really want to know what your really mail address is. Okay. But it's quite cool. [00:10:22] It's quite simple. So I'm right there right now. temp-mail.org. And I said, okay, give me email address. So gave me one. five04@datacop.com. Is this temporary email, so you can copy that address. Then you can come back into again, temp-mail.org and read your email for a certain period of time. So it is free. [00:10:48] It's disposable email. It's not particularly private. They have some other things, but I wouldn't use them because I don't know them for some of these other features and services. Stop pesky email stop. Some of these successful phishing attempt by having a unique, not just password, but a unique email for all those accounts. [00:11:12] And as I mentioned, upcoming bootcamp, and I'll announce it in my weekly email, we're going to cover this in some detail. Craig peterson.com. Make sure you subscribe to my newsletter. [00:11:25] Well, you've all heard is up. So what does that mean? Well, okay. It's up 33% since the last two years, really. But what does that amount to, we're going to talk about that. And what do you do after you've been ransomed? [00:11:42] Ransomware is terrible. It's crazy. Much of it comes in via email. [00:11:49] These malicious emails, they are up 600% due to COVID-19. 37% of organizations were affected by ransomware attacks in the last year. That's according to Sofos. 37% more than the third. Isn't that something in 2021, the largest ransomware payout, according to business insider was made by an insurance company at $40 million setting a world record. [00:12:21] The average ransom fee requested increased from 5,020 18 to around 200,000 in 2020. Isn't that something. So in the course of three years, it went from $5,000 to 200,000. That's according to the national security Institute, experts estimate that a ransomware attack will occur every 11 seconds for the rest of the year. [00:12:50] Uh, it's just crazy. Absolutely. Crazy all of these steps. So what does it mean? Or, you know, okay. It's up this much is up that much. Okay. Businesses are paying millions of dollars to get their data back. How about you as an individual? Well, as an individual right now, the average ransom is $11,605. So are you willing to pay more than $11,000 to get your pictures back off of your home computer in order to get your. [00:13:27] Work documents or whatever you have on your home computer. Hopefully you don't have any work information on your home computer over $11,000. Now, by the way, most of the time, these ransoms are actually unaffiliate affair. In other words, there is a company. That is doing the ransom work and they are pain and affiliate who are the, the affiliate in this case. [00:13:55] So the people who infected you and the affiliates are making up to 80% from all of these rents. Payments it's crazy. Right? So you can see why it's up. You can just go ahead and try and fool somebody into clicking on a link. Maybe it's a friend of yours. You don't productively like some friend, right. And you can go ahead and send them an email with a link in it. [00:14:20] And they click the link and it installs ransomware and you get 80% of them. Well, it is happening. It's happening a lot. So what do you do? This is a great little article over on dark reading and you'll see it on the website. The Craig peterson.com. But this article goes through. What are some of the steps it's by Daniel Clayton? [00:14:48] It's actually quite a good little article. He's the VP of global security services and support over at bit defender bit defender is. Great, uh, software that you've got versions of it for the Mac. You've got versions four of it for window. You might want to check it out, but he's got a nice little list here of things that you want to do. [00:15:13] So number one, Don't panic, right? Scott Adams don't panic. So we're worried because we think we're going to lose our job June. Do you know what? By the way is in the top drawer of the majority of chief information, security officers, two things. Uh, w one is their resignation letter and the second one is their resume because if they are attacked and it's very common and if they get in trouble, they are leaving. [00:15:47] And that's pretty common too. Although I have heard of some companies that understand, Hey, listen, you can't be 100% effective. You got to prioritize your money and play. It really is kind of like going to Vegas and betting on red or black, right? 50, 50 chance. Now, if you're a higher level organization, like our customers that have to meet these highest compliance standards, these federal government regulations and some of the European regulations, even state regulations, well, then we've got to keep you better than 99% safe and knock on wood over the course of 30 years. [00:16:27] That's a long I've been doing. 30 years. We have never had a single customer get a S uh, and. Type of malware, whether it is ransomware or anything else, including one custom company, that's a multinational. We were taking care of one of their divisions and the whole company got infected with ransomware. [00:16:50] They had to shut down globally for. Two weeks while they tried to recover everything, our little corner of the woods, the offices that we were protecting for that division, however, didn't get hit at all. So it is possible, right? I don't want you guys to think, man. There was nothing I can do. So I'm not going to do anything. [00:17:14] One of the ladies in one of my mastermind groups basically said that, right? Cause I was explaining another member of my mastermind group. Got. And I got hit for, I think it turned out to be $35,000 and, you know, that's a bad thing. Plus you feel just so exposed. I've been robbed before, uh, and it's just a terrible, terrible feeling. [00:17:37] So he was just kind of freaking out for good. But I explained, okay, so here's what you do. And she walked away from it thinking, well, there's nothing I can do. Well, there are things you can do. It is not terribly difficult. And listening here, getting my newsletter, going to my bootcamps and the workshops, which are more involved, you can do it. [00:18:03] Okay. It can be done. So I don't want. Panic. I don't want you to think that there's zero. You can do so that's number one. If you do get ransomware, number two, you got to figure out where did this come from? What happened? I would change this order. So I would say don't panic. And then number two is turn off the system that got rants. [00:18:29] Turn it off one or more systems. I might've gotten ransomware. And remember that the ransomware notification does not come up right. When it starts encrypting your data. It doesn't come up once they've stolen your data. It comes up after they have spread through your organization. So smart money would say shut off every computer, every. [00:18:56] Not just pull the plug. I w I'm talking about the ethernet cable, right? Don't just disconnect from wifi. Turn it off. Immediately. Shut it off. Pull the plug. It might be okay. In some cases, the next thing that has to happen is each one of those machines needs to have its disc drive probably removed and examined to see if it has. [00:19:18] Any of that ransomware on it. And if it does have the ransomware, it needs to get cleaned up or replaced. And in most cases we recommend, Hey, good time. Replace all the machines, upgrade everything. Okay. So that's the bottom line. So that's my mind. Number two. Okay. Um, he has isolated and save, which makes sense. [00:19:40] You're trying to minimize the blast radius. So he wants you to isolate him. I want you to turn them off because you do not want. Any ransomware that's on a machine in the process of encrypting your files. You don't want it to keep continuing to encrypting. Okay. So hopefully you've done the right thing. [00:20:00] You are following my 3, 2, 1 backup schedule that I taught last year, too, for free. For anybody that attended, hopefully you've already figured out if you're going to pay. Pay. I got to say some big companies have driven up the price of Bitcoin because they've been buying it as kind of a hedge against getting ransomware so they can just pay it right away. [00:20:25] But you got to figure that out. There's no one size fits all for all of this. At over $11,000 for an individual ransom, uh, this requires some preparation and some thought stick around, got a lot more coming up. Visit me online, Craig Peterson.com and get my newsletter along with all of the free trainings. [00:20:52] Well, the bad guys have done it again. There is yet another way that they are sneaking in some of this ransomware and it has to do with Q R codes. This is actually kind of clever. [00:21:08] By now you must've seen if not used QR codes. [00:21:12] These are these codes that they're generally in a square and the shape of a square and inside there's these various lines and in a QR code, you can encode almost anything. Usually what it is, is a URL. So it's just like typing in a web address into your phone, into your web browser, whatever you might be using. [00:21:35] And they have been very, very handy. I've used them. I've noticed them even showing up now on television ad down in the corner, you can just scan the QR code in order to apply right away to get your gin Sioux knives. Actually, I haven't seen it on that commercial, but, uh, it's a different one. And we talked last week about some of these stores that are putting QR codes in their windows. [00:22:02] So people who are walking by, we even when the store is closed, can order stuff, can get stuff. It's really rather cool. Very nice technology. Uh, so. There is a new technique to get past the email filters. You know, I provide email filters, these big boxes, I mean, huge machines running Cisco software that are tied into, uh, literally billion end points, plus monitoring tens of hundreds of millions of emails a day. [00:22:39] It's just huge. I don't even. I can ha can't get my head around some of those numbers, but it's looking at all those emails. It is cleaning them up. It's looking at every URL that's embedded in an email says, well, is this a bad guy? It'll even go out and check the URL. It will look at the domain. Say how long has this domain been registered? [00:23:01] What is the spam score overall on the domain? As well as the email, it just does a whole lot of stuff. Well, how can it get around a really great tight filter like that? That's a very good question. How can you and the bottom line answer is, uh, how about, uh, using the QR code? So that's what bad guys are doing right now. [00:23:26] They are using a QR code in side email. Yeah. So the emails that have been caught so far by a company called abnormal security have been saying that, uh, you have a missed voicemail, and if you want to pick it up, then scan this QR. It looks pretty legitimate, obviously designed to bypass enterprise, email gateway scans that are really set up to detect malicious links and attachments. [00:24:01] Right? So all of these QR codes that abnormal detected were created the same day they were sent. So it's unlikely that the QR codes, even that they'd been detected would have been previously. Poured it included in any security blacklist. One of the good things for these bad guys about the QR codes is they can easily change the look of the QR code. [00:24:26] So even if the mail gateway software is scanning for pictures and looking for a specific QR codes, basically, they're still getting. So the good news is the use of the QR codes in these types of phishing emails is still quite rare. We're not seeing a lot of them yet. We are just starting to see them, uh, hyperlinks to phishing sites, a really common with some of these QR codes. [00:24:58] But this is the first time we've seen an actor embed, a functional QR code into an email is not. Now the better business bureau warned of a recent uptick, ticking complaints from consumers about scams involving QR codes, not just an email here, but because these codes can't really be read by the human eye at all. [00:25:21] The attackers are using them to disguise malicious links so that you know, that vendor that I talked about, that retail establishment that's using the QR codes and hoping people walking by will scan it in order to get some of that information. Well, People are going to be more and more wary of scanning QR codes, right? [00:25:43] Isn't that just make a lot of sense, which is why, again, one of the items in our protection stack that we use filters URLs. Now you can get a free. The filter and I cover this in my workshop, how to do it, but if you go to open DNS, check them out, open DNS, they have a free version. If you're a business, they want you to pay, but we have some business related ones to let you have your own site to. [00:26:15] Based on categories and all that sort of stuff, but the free stuff is pretty generalized. They usually have two types, one for family, which blocks the stuff you might think would be blocked. Uh, and other so that if you scan one of these QR codes and you are using open DNS umbrella, one of these others, you're going to be much, much. [00:26:39] Because it will, most of the time be blocked because again, the umbrella is more up-to-date than open DNS is, but they are constantly monitoring these sites and blocking them as they need to a mobile iron, another security company. I conducted a survey of more than 4,400 people last year. And they found that 84% have used a QR code. [00:27:05] So that's a little better than I thought it was. Twenty-five percent of them said that they had run into situations where a QR code did something they did not expect including taking them to a malicious website. And I don't know, are they like scanning QR codes in the, in the men's room or something in this doll? [00:27:24] I don't know. I've never come across a QR code. That was a malicious that I tried to scan, but maybe I'm a little more cautious. 37% were. Saying that they could spot a malicious QR code. Yeah. Yeah. They can read these things while 70% said they'd be able to spot a URL to a phishing or other malicious website that I can believe. [00:27:50] But part of the problem is when you scan a QR code, it usually comes up and it says, Hey, do you want to open this? And most of that link has invisible is, is not visible because it is on your smartphone and it's not a very big screen. So we'll just show you the very first part of it. And the first part of it, it's going to look pretty darn legit. [00:28:14] So again, that's why you need to make sure you're using open DNS or umbrella. Ideally, you've got it installed right at your edge at your router at whoever's handling DHCP for your organization. Uh, in the phishing campaign at normal had detected with using this QR code, uh, code they're saying the attackers had previously compromised, some outlook, email accounts, belonging to some legitimate organizations. [00:28:43] To send the emails with malicious QR codes. And we've talked about that before they use password stuffing, et cetera. And we're covering all of this stuff in the bootcamp and also, well, some of it in the bootcamp and all of this really in the workshops that are coming up. So keep an eye out for that stuff. [00:29:03] Okay. Soup to nuts here. Uh, it's a, uh, it's a real. Every week, I send out an email and I have been including my show notes in those emails, but I found that most people don't do anything with the show notes. So I'm changing, I'm changing things this week. How some of you have gotten the show notes, some of you haven't gotten the show notes, but what I'm going to be doing is I've got my show notes on my website@craigpeterson.com. [00:29:35] So you'll find them right. And you can get the links for everything I talk about right here on this. I also now have training in every one of my weekly emails. It's usually a little list that we've started calling listicles and it is training on things you can do. It is. And anybody can do this is not high level stuff for people that are in the cybersecurity business, right. [00:30:07] Home users, small businesses, but you got to get the email first, Craig peterson.com and signup. [00:30:14] California is really in trouble with these new environmental laws. And yet, somehow they found a major exception. They're letting the mine lithium in the great salt and sea out in California. We'll tell you why. [00:30:31] There's an Article in the New York times. And this is fantastic. It's just a incredible it talking about the lithium gold rush. [00:30:43] You already know, I'm sure that China has been playing games with some of these minerals. Some of the ones that we really, really need exotic minerals that are used to make. Batteries that are used to power our cars. And now California is banning all small gasoline engine sales. So the, what is it? 55,000 companies out in California that do lawn maintenance are going down. [00:31:13] To drive those big lawnmowers around running on batteries. They're estimating it'll take 30 packs battery packs a day. Now, remember California is one of these places that is having rolling blackouts because they don't have. Power, right. It's not just China. It's not just Europe where they are literally freezing people. [00:31:37] They did it last winter. They expect to do it more. This winter, since we stopped shipping natural gas and oil, they're freezing people middle of winter, turning off electronics. California, at least they're not too likely to freeze unless they're up in the mountains in California. So they don't have enough power to begin with. [00:31:57] And what are they doing there? They're making it mandatory. I think it was by 2035 that every car sold has to be electric. And now they have just gotten rid of all of the small gasoline engines they've already got. Rolling blackouts, come on. People smarten up. So they said, okay, well here's what we're going to do. [00:32:20] We need lithium in order to make these batteries. Right. You've heard of lithium-ion batteries. They're in everything. Now, have you noticed with lithium batteries, you're supposed to take them to a recycling center and I'm sure all of you do. When your battery's dead in your phone, you take it to a recycling center. [00:32:39] Or if you have a battery that you've been using in your Energizer bunny, and it's a lithium battery, of course you take it to the appropriate authorities to be properly disposed of because it's toxic people. It is toxic. So we have to be careful with this. Well, now we're trying to produce lithium in the United States. [00:33:06] There are different projects in different parts of the country, all the way from Maine through of course, California, in order to try and pull the lithium out of the ground and all. Let me tell you, this is not very green at all. So novel. Peppa Northern Nevada. They've started here blasting and digging out a giant pit in this dormant volcano. [00:33:38] That's going to serve as the first large scale, lithium mine in the United States and more than a decade. Well, that's good. Cause we need it. And do you know about the supply chain problems? Right. You've probably heard about that sort of thing, but that's good. This mine is on least federal lands. What does that mean? [00:33:59] Well, that means if Bernie Sanders becomes president with the flick of a pen, just like Joe Biden did on his first day, he could close those leads to federal lands. Yeah. And, uh, we're back in trouble again, because we have a heavy reliance on foreign sources of lithium, right. So this project's known as lithium Americas. [00:34:25] There are some native American tribes, first nation as they're called in Canada. Uh, ranchers environmental groups that are really worried, because guess what? In order to mine, the lithium, and to do the basic processing onsite that needs to be done, they will be using. Billions of gallons of groundwater. [00:34:48] Now think of Nevada. Think of California. Uh, you don't normally think of massive lakes of fresh water to. No. Uh, how about those people that are opposed to fracking? Most of them are opposed to fracking because we're pumping the water and something, various chemicals into the ground in order to crack the rock, to get the gas out. [00:35:11] Right. That's what we're doing. They don't like that. But yet, somehow. Contaminating the water for 300 years and leaving behind a giant mound of waste. Isn't a problem for these so-called Greenies. Yeah. A blowing up visit quote here from max Wilbert. This is a guy who has been living in a tent on this proposed mine site. [00:35:38] He's got a. Lawsuits that are going, trying to block the project. He says blowing up a mountain. Isn't green, no matter how much marketing spend people put on it, what have I been saying forever? We're crazy. We are insane. I love electric cars. If they are coolest. Heck I would drive one. If I had one, no problem. [00:35:57] I'm not going to bother to go out and buy one, but, uh, yeah, it's very cool, but it is anything but green. Electric cars and renewable energy are not green, renewable energy. The solar and the wind do not stop the need for nuclear plants or oil or gas burners, or cold burners, et cetera. Because when the sun isn't shining, we still need electricity. [00:36:29] Where are we getting to get it? When the wind isn't blowing or when the windmills are broken, which happens quite frequently. Where are we going to get our power? We have to get it from the same way we always have from maybe some, uh, some old hydro dams. Right. But really we got to start paying a lot more attention to nuclear. [00:36:53] I saw a couple of more nuclear licenses were issued for these six gen nuclear plants that are green people. They are green, but back to our lithium mine. They're producing cobalt and nickel as well as the lithium. And they are ruined this to land, water, wildlife, and. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, we have had wars over gold and oil before and now we're looking at minerals. [00:37:27] In fact, there's a race underway between the United States, China, Europe, Russia, and others, looking for economic and technological dominance for decades to come by grabbing many of these precious minerals. So let's get into this a little bit further here. Okay. So they're trying to do good, but really they're not green. [00:37:53] They're they're not doing good. And this is causing friction. Okay. Um, first three months of this year, us lithium miners raise nearly three and a half billion dollars from wall street, seven times the amount raised in the last six months or 36 months. Yeah, huge. Money's going into it. Okay. They're going after lithium from California's largest leak, the Salton sea. [00:38:23] Yeah. Yeah. So they're going to use specially coded beads to extract lithium salt from the hot liquid pumped up from an aquifer more than 4,000 feet below the surface. Hmm. Sounds like drilling aren't they anti drilling to the self-contained systems connected to geothermal power plants generating emission free electricity. [00:38:44] Oh, that's right. They don't have a problem with the ring of fire in California with earthquakes and things. Right. Ah, yeah. Drilling on that and using the, the, uh, It's not going to be a problem. Uh, so, um, yeah, so that you're hoping to generate revenue needed to restore the lake fouled by toxic runoff from area farms for decades. [00:39:08] So they're looking to do more here. Lithium brine, Arkansas, Nevada, North Dakota, as I mentioned already, Maine. Uh, they're using it in every car that's out there, smartphones, et cetera. Uh, the us has some of the world's largest reserves, which is, I guess, a very good thing. Right? A silver peak mine in Nevada is producing 5,000 tons a year, which is less than 2% of the world's supply. [00:39:40] Uh, this is just absolutely amazing going through this. Okay. Um, I know bomb administration official, Ben Steinberg said right now, China decided to cut off the U S for a variety of reasons. We're in trouble. Yeah. You think. Uh, the another thing here in the New York times article is from this rancher and it's a bit of a problem. [00:40:06] He's got 500 cows and calves. Roaming is 50,000 acres and Nevada's high desert is going to have to start buying feed for. This local, mine's going to reach about 370 feet. Uh, here's another kind of interesting thing. This mine one mine is going to consume 3,200 gallons of water. Per minute. Yeah. In, in Baron Nevada, I I'm looking at a picture of this and it is just dead sagebrush. [00:40:37] Oh my gosh. So they're expecting the water table will drop at least 12 feet. They're going to be producing 66,000 tons of battery grade, lithium carbonate a year. But, uh, here we go. They're digging out this mountain side and they're using 5,800 tons of so FERC acid per day. Yeah. They're mixing clay dug out from the ma from the Mount side with 5,800 tons of clay of sulfuric acid. [00:41:10] I should say every day, they're also consuming 354 million cubic yards. Of mining waste. I'm not consuming creating 354 million cubic yards of mining waste loaded with, uh, discharged from this sulfuric acid treatment and may contain. Modest amounts of radioactive uranium. That's according to the permit documents, they're expecting it'll degrade quote unquote 5,000 acres of winter range used by the antelope herd, the habitat of the Sage groves nesting areas for Eagles. [00:41:48] It just goes on and on. It is not. BLM is not, of course stumbled the bureau of land management, but I guess both PLMs are not, and this is a real problem and the tribes are trying to stop it. The farmers are trying to stop it, but Hey, California needs more lithium batteries for their electric cars. [00:42:10] They're electric lawn mowers, leaf blowers, et cetera. So we've got to get that lithium. We've got to get it right away, uh, in order for their green appetite in. Hey get some sanity. Craig peterson.com. Sign up for my newsletter right now. [00:42:28] Doing a little training here on how to spot fake log-in pages. We just covered fishing and some real world examples of it, of some free quiz stuff that you can use to help with it. And now we're moving on to the next. [00:42:44] The next thing to look for when it comes to the emails and these fake log-in pages is a spelling mistake or grammatical errors. [00:42:56] Most of the time, these emails that we get that are faking emails are, have really poor grammar in them. Many times, of course the, the commas are in the wrong place, et cetera, et cetera. But most of us weren't English majors. So we're not going to pick that up myself included. Right. That's why I use Grammarly. [00:43:17] If you have to ever write anything or which includes anything from an email or a document, uh, you, you probably want to get Grammarly. There's a few out there, but that's the one I liked the best for making sure my grammar. So a tip, I guess, to the hackers out there, but the hackers will often use a URL that is very close to. [00:43:41] Where are you want to go? So they might put a zero in place of an O in the domain, or they might make up some other domain. So it might be a amazon-aws.com or a TD bank dash. Um, account.com, something like that. Sometimes the registrars they'll catch that sort of thing and kill it. Sometimes the business that they are trying to fake will catch it and let them know as well. [00:44:16] There's companies out there that watch for that sort of thing. But many times it takes a while and it's only fixed once enough people have reported it. So look at the URL. Uh, make sure it's legitimate. I always advise that instead of clicking on the link in the email, try and go directly to the website. [00:44:38] It's like the old days you got a phone call and somebody saying, yo, I'm from the bank and I need your name and social security number. So I can validate the someone broke into your account. No, no, no, no, no, they don't. They don't just call you up like that nowadays. They'll send you a message in their app. [00:44:55] That's on your smart. But they're not going to call you. And the advice I've always given is look up their phone now. And by the way, do it in the phone book, they remember those and then call them back. That's the safest way to do that sort of thing. And that's true for emails as well. If it's supposedly your bank and it's reporting something like someone has broken into your account, which is a pretty common technique for these fissures, these hackers that are out there, just type in the bank URL as you know, it not what's in the email and. [00:45:32] There will be a message there for you if it's legitimate, always. Okay. So before you click on any website, Email links, just try and go directly to the website. Now, if it's one of these deep links where it's taking new Jew, something specific within the site, the next trick you can play is to just mouse over the link. [00:45:57] So bring your mouse down to where the link is. And typically what'll happen is at the bottom left of your. Your screen or of the window. It'll give you the actual link. Now, if you look at some of them, for instance, the emails that I send out, I don't like to bother people. So if you have an open one of my emails in a while, I'll just automatically say, Hey, I have not opened them in a while. [00:46:25] And then I will drop you off the list. Plus if you hit reply to one of my newsletters, my show notes, newsletters. That's just fine, but it's not going to go to me@craigpeterson.com and some people you listeners being the best and brightest have noticed that what happens is it comes up and it's some really weird URL that's so I can track who responded to. [00:46:53] And that way I can just sit down and say, okay, now let me go through who has responded? And I've got a, kind of a customer relationship management system that lets me keep track of all of that stuff so that I know that you responded. I know you're interacting, so I know I'm not bothering you. Right. And I know I need to respond to. [00:47:13] Well much the same thing is true with some of these links. When I have a link in my newsletter and I say, Hey, I'm linking to MIT's article. It is not going to be an MIT. Because again, I want to know what are you guys interested in? So anytime you click on a link, I'll know, and I need to know that, so I know why, Hey, wait a minute. [00:47:37] Now, 50% of all of the people that opened the emails are interested in identifying fake login pages. So what do I do? I do something like I'm doing right now. I go into depth on fake login. Pages. I wouldn't have known that if I wasn't able to track it. So just because the link doesn't absolutely look legit doesn't mean it isn't legit, but then again, if it's a bank of it involves financial transactions or some of these other things be more cautious. [00:48:13] So double-check for misspellings or grammatical errors. Next thing to do is to check the certificate, the security certificate on the site. You're on this gets a little bit confusing. If you go to a website, you might notice up in the URL bar, the bar that has the universal resource locator, that's part of the internet. [00:48:40] You might've noticed. There's a. And people might've told you do check for the lock. Well, that lock does not mean that you are saying. All it means is there is a secure VPN from your computer to the computer on the other side. So if it's a hacker on the other side, you're sending your data securely to the hacker, right? [00:49:07] That's not really going to do you a whole lot of good. This is probably one of the least understood things in the whole computer security side, that connect. Maybe secure, but is this really who you think it is? So what you need to do is click on their certificate and the certificate will tell you more detail. [00:49:32] So double-check their certificate and make sure it is for the site. You really. To go to, so when it's a bank site, it's going to say, you know, the bank is going to have the bank information on it. That makes sense. But if you go for instance on now, I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into this whole thing. [00:49:51] If you go to Craig peterson.com, for instance, it's going to say. Connection is secure. The certificate is valid, but if you look at their certificate and the trust in the details, it's going to be issued by some company, but it's going to just say Craig peterson.com. It's not going to give a business name like it would probably do for a bank. [00:50:17] So you know, a little bit of a twist to it, but that's an important thing. Don't just count on the lock, make sure that the certificate is for the place you want to contact. Last, but not least is multi-factor authentication. I can't say this enough. If the bad guys have your username or email address and your password for a site, if you're using multifactor authentication, they cannot get. [00:50:56] So it's going to prevent credential stuffing tactics, or they'll use your email and password combinations that have already been stolen for mothers sites to try and hack in to your online profile. So very important to set up and I advise against using two factor authentication with your, just a cell phone, as in a text message SMS, it is not secure and it's being hacked all of the time. [00:51:26] Get an authorization. App like one password for instance, and you shouldn't be using one password anyways, for all of your password. And then Google has a free one called Google authenticator. Use those instead of your phone number for authentication. [00:51:43] I've been warning about biometric databases. And I, I sat down with a friend of mine who is an attorney, and he's using this clear thing at the airport. I don't know if you've seen it, but it's a biometric database. What are the real world risks? [00:52:00] Well, this " Clear"company uses biometrics. It's using your eye. Brent, if you will, it's using your Iris. [00:52:08] Every one of us has a pretty darn unique Iris, and they're counting on that and they're using it to let you through TSA very quickly. And this attorney, friend of mine thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread, because he can just. Right on through, but the problem here is that we're talking about biometrics. [00:52:30] If your password gets stolen, you can change it. If your email account gets hacked, I have another friend who his account got hacked. You can get a new email account. If your Iris scan that's in this biometric database gets stolen. You cannot replace your eyes unless of course you're Tom cruise and you remember that movie, right. [00:53:00] And it's impossible to replace your fingerprints. It's possible to replace your face print. Well, I guess you could, to a degree or another, right. Some fat injections or other things. Could it be done to change your face sprint, but these Iris scans fingerprints and facial images are something I try not to provide any. [00:53:27] Apple has done a very good job with the security of their face print, as well as their fingerprint, because they do not send any of that information out directly to themselves, or do any database at all. They are stored only on the device itself. And they're in this wonderful little piece of electronics that cannot be physically compromised. [00:53:56] And to date has not been electronically compromised either. They've done a very, very good. Other vendors on other operating systems like Android, again, not so much, but there are also databases that are being kept out there by the federal government. I mentioned this clear database, which isn't the federal government, it's a private company, but the federal government obviously has its fingers into that thing. [00:54:27] The office of personnel. Uh, for the federal government, they had their entire database, at least pretty much the entire database. I think it was 50 million people stolen by the red, Chinese about six years ago. So the communists. Uh, copies of all of the information that the officer personnel management had about people, including background checks and things. [00:54:55] You've probably heard me talk about that before. So having that information in a database is dangerous because it attracts the hackers. It attracts the cybercriminals. They want to get their hands on it. They'll do all kinds of things to try and get their hands. We now have completely quit Afghanistan. [00:55:19] We left in a hurry. We did some incredibly stupid things. I just, I can't believe a president of the United States would do what was done here. And now it's been coming out that president Biden completely ignored. The advice that he was getting from various military intelligence and other agencies out there and just said, no, we're going to be out of there. [00:55:46] You have to limit your troops to this. And that's what causes them to close the airbase bog that we had had for so many years. Apparently the Chinese are talking about taking it over now. Yeah. Isn't that nice. And whereas this wasn't an eternal war, right? We hadn't had anybody die in a year and a half. [00:56:05] Uh, it's crazy. We have troops in south Vietnam. We have troops in Germany. We have troops in countries all over the world, Japan, you name it so that we have a local forest that can keep things calm. And we were keeping things calm. It's just mind blowing. But anyhow, politics aside, we left behind a massive database of biometric database. [00:56:40] Of Afghanis that had been helping us over in Afghanistan, as well as a database that was built using us contractors of everyone in the Afghan military, and basically third genealogy. Who their parents were the grandparents blood type weight, height. I'm looking at it right now. All of the records in here, the sex ID nationality. [00:57:13] Uh, date of exploration, hair color, favorite fruit, favorite vegetables, place of birth, uncle's name marker signature approval. Signature date, place of birth. Date of birth address, permanent address national ID number, place of ISS. Date of ISS native language salary. Date of salary, group of salary, police of salary education. [00:57:38] Father's named graduation date kind of weapon. And service number. These were all in place in Afghanistan. We put them in place because we were worried about ghost soldiers. A gold soldier was someone who we were paying the salary of taxpayers. The United States were paying the salaries of the Afghan military for quite some time. [00:58:06] And we were thinking that about half of the. Payroll checks. We were funding. We're actually not going to people who were in the military, but we're going to people who were high up within the Afghan government and military. So we put this in place to get rid of the ghost soldiers. Everybody had to have all of this stuff. [00:58:33] In the database, 36 pieces of information, just for police recruitment. Now this information we left behind and apparently this database is completely in the hand of the Taliban. Absolutely. So we were talking about Americans who helped construct Afghanistan and the military and the Teleman, the looking for the networks of their Poland supporters. [00:59:07] This is just absolutely amazing. So all of the data doesn't have clear use, like who cares about the favorite fruit or vegetable, but the rest of it does the genealogy. Does they now know who was in the police department, who was in the military, who their family is, what their permanent address is. Okay. [00:59:31] You see the problem here and the biometrics as well in the biometrics are part of this us system that we were using called hide H I D E. And this whole hide thing was a biometric reader. Well, the military could keep with them. There were tens of thousands of these things out in the field. And when they had an encounter with someone, they would look up their biometrics, see if they were already in the database and in the database, it would say, yeah, you know, they're friendly, they're an informant. [01:00:08] Or we found them in this area or w you know, we're watching them. We have concerned about them, et cetera, et cetera. Right. All of their actions were in. Well turns out that this database, which covered about 80% of all Afghans and these devices are now in the hands of the Taliban. Now, the good news with this is that that a lot of this information cannot be easily extracted. [01:00:40] So you're not going to get some regular run of the mill Taliban guide to pick one of these up and start using. But, uh, the what's happening here is that we can really predict that one of these surrounding companies like Pakistan that has been very cooperative with the Taliban. In fact, they gave refuge to Saddam, not Saddam Hussein, but to bin Ladin and also Iran and China and Russia. [01:01:13] Any of those countries should be able to get into that database. Okay. So I think that's really important to remember now, a defense department spokesperson quote here, Eric Faye on says the U S has taken prudent actions to ensure that sensitive data does not fall into the Tolo bonds. And this data is not at risk of misuse. [01:01:38] Misuse that's unfortunately about all I can say, but Thomas Johnson, a research professor at the Naval postgraduate school in Monterey, California says, uh, not so fast. The Taliban may have used biometric information in the Coon dues attack. So instead of taking the data straight from the high devices, he told MIT technology review that it is possible that Tolo bond sympathizers in Kabul provided them. [01:02:11] With databases as a military personnel against which they could verify prints. In other words, even back in 2016, it may have been the databases rather than these high devices themselves pose the greatest risk. This is very concerning big article here in MIT technology review. I'm quoting from it a little bit here, but there are a number of databases. [01:02:39] They are biometric. Many of these, they have geological information. They have information that can be used to round up and track down people. I'm not going to mention world war two, and I'm not going to mention what happened with the government before Hitler took over, because to do that means you lose that government had registered firearms, that government had registered the civilians and the people and Afghanistan. [01:03:13] The government was also as part of our identification papers, registering your religion. If you're Christian, they're hunting you down. If you were working for the military, they're hunting new day. And this is scary. That's part of the reason I do not want biometric information and databases to be kept here in the U S Hey, make sure you get my show notes every week on time, along with free training, I try to help you guys out. [01:03:50] Craig peterson.com. Craig peterson.com. Here I am. Cybersecurity strategist and available to you.

Inside Sources with Boyd Matheson
U.S. Economy Isn't Out of the Woods Yet

Inside Sources with Boyd Matheson

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 5, 2021 10:42


The October jobs report released today seemed to indicate that the trajectory of the U.S. economy had turned a corner and was headed in the right direction. But Utah State Representative Robert Spendlove, who is also an economist, says there are some significant groups of people being left behind.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Murder Murder News - The Listen Edition
Anatoly Moskvin's Dollhouse

Murder Murder News - The Listen Edition

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 5, 2021 42:35


This week Angelina and Aurora unwrap an especially disturbing case from Russian true crime history.  Ten years ago, on November 2nd, 2011, Anatoly Moskvin was arrested. The historian and polyglot was a renowned linguist, writer,  and contributor to a number of Publications -- but he hid a dark secret. Moskvin's doll-making hobby was not what it appeared. Writing and research by Angelina Villeseche.Original music and audio production by Louis Levesque.For inquiries: louis14levesque@gmail.comF O L L O W  U S ! ! !I N S T A G R A M -- @murdermurdernewsT W I T T E R --  @mmurdernewsF A C E B O O K -- https://www.facebook.com/mmntruecrime/T I K T O K -- @murdermurdernewsY O U T U B E -- MurderMurder NewsJoin our Facebook Group | to chat about true crime, and to join our virtual book club!Check out MurderMurder.news for the latest breaking true crime news!For business inquiries: murdermurdernews@gmail.comSubmit a  spooky story: https://murdermurder.news/story-submission-form/---LINKS + SOURCES:https://7news.com.au/news/world/russian-man-lived-with-girls-mummified-corpses-turned-them-into-dolls--c-1536329https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8904599/Graverobber-stole-girls-corpses-doll-collection-refuses-apologise-parents.htmlhttps://allthatsinteresting.com/anatoly-moskvinhttps://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-15653074https://medium.com/the-mystery-box/the-doll-house-of-human-corpses-b49ca89c19c8https://vocal.media/criminal/moskvin-the-doll-collectorhttps://nypost.com/2020/11/03/russian-grave-robber-who-kept-bodies-of-26-girls-wont-apologize-to-parents/https://medium.com/our-weird-wonderful-world/the-russian-doll-collector-d91456ec2ad7https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Moskvinhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6681825/Russian-bodysnatcher-stole-corpses-29-girls-turned-dolls-set-walk-free.htmlhttps://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13087066/graverobber-stole-corpses-dressed-dolls-refuses-apologise-parents/Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/murdermurdernews)

Happy Valley Hustle
Nick Gilson -- Shredding The Status Quo With Gilson Snowboards & Skis

Happy Valley Hustle

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 3, 2021 45:39


Nick Gilson's eponymous company is a testament to persistently adapting and tirelessly committing to a vision. Gilson Snow Inc. makes products from locally sourced wood and does it in the U S of A. Hear him discuss the importance of learning from failure, contributing to your community and building a team of people who are smarter and cooler than you. ▶️ MAKE your podcasting dreams happen with hosting from Buzzsprout.Make sure you always Hear The Hustle: Web: https://www.billzhustle.com/podcast/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HappyValleyHustle/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/billzhustle Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/billzhustle/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billfzimmerman/ Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched! Start for FREEDisclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

[Abridged] Presidential Histories
21.A.) The Life and Times of Chester A. Arthur, an interview with Scott Greenberger

[Abridged] Presidential Histories

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 1, 2021 44:11


Chester A. Arthur is a 19th-century American politics version of Breaking Bad mashed with Darth Vader's redemption story.Ok. There's no meth or space sorcery. But there is a seemingly noble man who jettisons his values when they get in the way of making a buck. (Ok, a LOT of bucks). And then,  after a lifetime of proving himself a good-for-nothing scoundrel, he turns into a redemption story when thrust into the presidency with the future of the nation on the line.Join me as I interview Scott Greenberger, executive editor of Stateline, the daily news service of the Pew Charitable Trusts, and author of The Unexpected President: The Life and Times of Chester A. Arthur, on why Arthur fell from grace, and the factors that inspired his redemption at a time when the entire country had given up on him.Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/AbridgedPresidentialHistories)

Craig Peterson's Tech Talk
How Ransomware, Trojanware, and Adware Hurt You

Craig Peterson's Tech Talk

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 29, 2021 85:09


How Ransomware, Trojanware, and Adware Hurt You. And Why ExpressVPN Isn't Safe to Use. Ransomware, Trojanware Adware. What's the difference between these different types of malware.? And when it comes down to our computers, which should we worry about the most and which should we worry about the most? [Automated Transcript Follows] [00:00:17] There are a lot of different types of malware that are out there and they're circulating and scaring us. [00:00:23] And I think for good reason, in many cases, ransomware of course, is the big one and it is up, up, up. It has become just so common. Now that pretty much everybody is going to be facing a serious ransomware attack within the next 12 months. The numbers are staggering. And what are they doing while now they're getting you with the double whammy. [00:00:50] The first whammy is they encrypt your data. Your computers are encrypted, everything on them. So you can't use them anymore. Bottom line. Yeah, they'll boot they'll run enough in order to be able for you to pay that ransom. But any document that you might care about, any PDF, any word doc, and the spreadsheet is going to be encrypted. [00:01:14] And the idea behind that is. You have to pay in order to get that decryption key about 50% of the time. Yeah. About half of the time. Even if you pay the ransom, you'll get your data back the rest of the time. No, you you'll never see it again. So what do you do about that type of ransomware? Well, obviously most people just pay the rent. [00:01:39] But that's gone up as well. We've seen over a hundred percent increase in the amount of ransom people happy. So what's the best thing to do. What's the easiest thing to do in order to help you with this type of ransomware while it's obviously to have good backups. Now I'm going to be doing a bootcamp. [00:02:00] We're going to talk about this and a workshop. I really want to get going with these one week long workshops. So we'll do a, at least a couple of times a month in these boot camps that we'll do pretty much every week here, but they're coming up fairly soon. You'll only know about them. If you are on my email list, that is Craig peterson.com and the number one thing that you can do to. [00:02:27] You when you're hit with this type of rent somewhere, because if you're not taking all of the other precautions, you should be digging under really good that you're going to get hit the better than 50%. And once you do is have a good backup, and I want to warn everybody because I've seen this again and against people just keep making this mistake, probably because they don't get it. [00:02:51] They don't understand why and where and how, when it comes to ransom. The mistake is they do a backup to a local desk. Now, many times the backup is on a thumb drive or USB drive. So you just go to the big box store. You go to Amazon, you order an external drive. You're just amazed how cheap they are. [00:03:16] Nowadays. Once you've got that drive, you plug it in. You turn on some backup software. Maybe it's something you've used for some years, maybe. If you have a Mac, you're just using the built-in backup software. Even the windows operating system now comes with some built-in backup and you think you're off and running because every so often it back. [00:03:40] If we're using a Mac is smart enough to not only back up your whole machine, but as you're editing files, it's going to go ahead and make a backup of that file as you're editing it. So if there is a crash or something else, you're not going to lose much. I just love the way apple does that. Huge problem. [00:03:59] Because if the disc is attached to your machine, or let's say that disc is on a file server, cause you're smart, right? You set up some network attached storage of some sort and your machine has access to it. And so you're sending it off of your machine to a central. Well, you still got a problem because if your machine can read or more particularly right to a location on your network or locally, that ransomware is going to also encrypt everything, it can find there. [00:04:37] So, if you are sharing a network drive and you get ransomware, when you remember the odds are better than 50%, you're gonna get it. Then what happens? What would this type of ransomware it not only encrypts the files on your computer, but encrypts them on the backup as well. And it also encrypts them on any of the. [00:04:58] File servers or network attached storage the, to have on your network. So now everything's encrypted. You wonder why someone and people pay the ransom? Oh, that's a large part of the reason right there. And I keep saying this type of ransomware because there isn't another type of ransomware and they usually go hand in hand. [00:05:21] The bad guys were not making enough money off of holding your files. Rants. So the next thing the bad guys have done is they've gone to a different type of extortion. This one is, Hey, if you don't pay us, we are going to release your files to the world. Now they might do it on a dark website. They might do it on a publicly available site, which is what many of them are starting to do now. [00:05:51] And you're going to either be embarrassed or subject to a lot of fines or both, because now if your files have. Confidential information. Let's say it's your intellectual property. Now, anybody who bothers to search online can find your intellectual property out there. If you have anything that's personally identifiable information. [00:06:18] And it gets out. Now you are subject to major fines. In fact, in some states like California and Massachusetts, you are subject to fines. Even if the bad guys don't post it online. So that's the second type of ransomware and it's a bad type. And usually what'll happen is the bad guys, get their software on your machine and they can do it in a number of different ways. [00:06:45] One of the popular ways to do it now is to just break in because. Our businesses, we've, we've set up something called remote desktop, and we're using remote desktop for our users to get in. And maybe we're using some form of a VPN to do it with, or maybe we've made the mistake of using express VPN. And, uh, we have that now connected up to our homes and we think that that's keeping us safe. [00:07:13] And I got a few things to say about that as well. These VPN services. What happens now while Microsoft remote desktop has been under major attack and there are some major flaws. Some of these were patched more than a year ago now, but according to recent studies, 60%, almost two thirds of businesses have not applied the patches. [00:07:42] You know, th this is basic stuff. And I understand how hard it can be and it can be confusing and you can break your systems, but you have to weigh that against well, what's going to happen if our systems are broken into, because we didn't apply the patch. So that's the second type of ransomware and that's what most people are afraid of and for good reason. [00:08:07] And one of the things we do for businesses and we do ransomware audits, we have a look at your systems, your firewalls, et cetera, and make recommendations to. Man. I got to talk about this too, cause it really upset me this week. I signed up for a webinar just to see what was going on. There's a company out there that sells these marketing systems to managed services providers. [00:08:33] And I, I, I had to turn it off like instantly because it was just such. Garbage that they were telling managed services providers MSPs to do. I couldn't believe it. So this guy was talking about how, again, I turned it back on and I said, Hey, I've got to watch us anyways, because I need to know what's going on. [00:08:54] And this guy was telling these managed services providers, how they can double their clothes. I couldn't believe this guy. Cause he was saying that what they do is they offer to do a ransomware audit for businesses and they say, normally we charge $6,000 to do a ransomware audit, but I tell you what we'll do it for you for. [00:09:20] Now, this is a guy that he had an MSP managed services provider. Apparently he had started it and he was bringing in more than $1 million per month in revenue. Can you imagine that monthly recurring revenue over a million dollars? And so he's telling people businesses, Hey, I have a $6,000 audit that we'll do. [00:09:47] For free, Hey people, how long have we said, if you're not paying for something your, the product remember Facebook, right? Google, Instagram, all of those guys, Twitter, you don't pay for it, but your information is the product. So what's this guy doing well, guess what? His audit, it's going to show his audit. [00:10:10] It's going to show that you need him. And he's sucked in hundreds of businesses and he didn't even know what he was doing when it came to the audits or protecting them. It is insane. What's going on out there. I am ashamed of my industry, absolutely ashamed of it. You know, I've got my first attack, successful attack against my company back in 91 92. [00:10:42] And I learned this stuff because I had to, and I help you guys because I don't want you to get stuck. Like I was so important, important word of advice. If you want to nod it, go to someone that charges you for the audit. That's going to do a real one. It's going to give you real advice that you can really need and use rather than, Hey, you knew do use me. [00:11:11] Because my free audit tells you so, so many scams. [00:11:15] What is ad where in what is crypto, where these are two types of real, kind of bad things. Won't gray areas, things that are hurting us, our mobile devices, our businesses. And our homes. [00:11:32] Adware is also a type of malware that's been around a long time. But it does live in a gray area. [00:11:42] And that gray area is between basically marketing and, uh, well outright fraud. And I don't even want to call it just marketing because it's very aggressive market. What they will do with add where is they? They will have some JavaScript code or something else that's embedded on a webpage, and that's usually how you get it. [00:12:09] And then once it's in, in your browser, it sits there and it pops up things. So it'll pop up an ad for this, pop up an ad for that, even if it's. Uh, part of the site that you're on right now, and it can live for months or years on your computer. We've known for a long time about ad where on the windows environment and how it has just been just terribly annoying at the very least Microsoft and genetic Explorer. [00:12:40] One of the worst web browsers ever. Perpetrated on humankind was well-known for this. And of course, Microsoft got rid of internet Explorer, and then they came up with her own symposer browser, the edge browser that was also openly scorned. And so Microsoft got rid of their edge browser and switched over to basically Google Chrome chromium, and then changed his name to the edge browser. [00:13:11] And so you think you're running edge, but you're kind of not, you kind of are. So they did all of that in order to help with compatibility and also to help with some of these problems that people have had using that Microsoft browser online, very, very big problems. So what can you do about it and what does it do to you and where can be very. [00:13:37] You might've had it before words always popping up again and again and again on your browser, just so crazy knowing it it's insane, but it can also be used to spy on where you're going online and potentially to, to infect you with something even worse. Sometimes some of this ad where we'll purposely click on ads, that the people who gave you the ad were, are using as kind of like a clickbait type thing. [00:14:09] So you go to a website and it was. Automatically click certain ads and click on unbeknownst to you, right? It's as though you went there so that people have to pay for that ad. And sometimes aids are very, very complicated. Sometimes they'll use. In order to drive a competitor out of business or out of the market, because the ads are so expensive because so many people are supposedly clicking on the ads. [00:14:40] But in reality, you didn't click on the ad. You're not going to see that page that you supposedly clicked on, and it's going to cost that advertiser money, whole bunch of money. You might not care. Right. But it is. Ad ware over on the Mac, however, is the only real malware menace at all I had to where is something that choosed fairly frequently on the Mac? [00:15:09] It is pretty darn easy to get rid of. And as a general rule, it doesn't work very well on the Mac. Although I have seen some cases where it got very, very sticky. Where someone ended up installing it, it wasn't just running in the browser, but they installed it on their Mac, which is something you should never do. [00:15:29] But apple has some things in place to help stop any of this from happening. And it's gotten a lot better. I haven't seen this problem in a couple of years, but apple is using the signature based blocking technology called export. They also have at apple, this developer based notarization of apps. And so the run of the mill malware, which includes most of this Al where really can't find a foothold. [00:15:57] But I want to remind everybody that if they can get Al add where onto your computer, they might be able to get something worse. So you really got to keep an eye out for no two ways about it. There are some companies out there, for instance, there's this one. Parrot, which is a program linked to this Israeli marketing firm that gains persistence on your browser and potentially could gain root access to the Mac system. [00:16:30] So careful, careful on all fronts now. Anti-malware stuff that we use for our clients is called amp, which is an advanced malware protection system. That's been developed by our friends over at Cisco it's amp is very, very good. Unfortunately, you cannot get it unless you buy it from somebody like us and you have to buy so many seats for some of this stuff, it gets gets expensive quickly. [00:17:00] Um, if you can't do that much, a lot of people like Malwarebytes, there are some very good things about it, but be careful because in order for this to work, this is Railey parrot software to work. It has a fake install. So again, it's just be careful if you know how apple installed software, you know that unless you have instigated it, it's not going to be installed. [00:17:30] You're not just going to see an installer. And say, Hey, we're apple install us. Right? Apple just does it in the background when it comes to updates patches. But they're very sneaky here trying to install things like the Adobe floor. Player, which has been deprecated. Deprecated is completely now gone from Mac systems and from windows systems, you should not be using flash at all anymore. [00:18:02] It was very, very bad. So up becomes you, you go to wound stole the leaders flash player, or, and I'm sure they're going to change this or something else, right? It won't be flashed in a future. It'll be a Adobe. Would you also don't need on a Mac. So anyhow, that's what you got to be careful of ad were still a big problem in windows. [00:18:25] Not much as much as it used to be. Uh, thanks to the change to Google Chrome, which Microsoft has rebranded as of course its own edge browser. Much of a problem at all on Macs, but be very, very careful in either platform about installing software that you did not start installing. Now earlier this year, there's a security firm called red Canary that found something that's been named silver Sparrow. [00:18:58] That was on a. 30,000 Mac computers. And apparently the developers for this malware had already adapted it to apples and one chip architecture and have distributed this binary, this program as a universal binary. Now in the macro, the member doesn't just use Intel. It used to use power PCs and then it used Intel. [00:19:21] And now it's using its own architecture for the chips themselves. So a universal binary is something that will run on Mac Intel based and Mac architecture base. But, uh, the bottom line is that this proof of concept. Malware, if you will had no payload. So we know it's out there, we seen it now on almost 30,000 Mac computers, but at this point it's not really doing much, much at all. [00:19:53] So. These are malicious search engine results and they're directing victims to download these PKGs, which are Mac packaged format installers based on network connections from your browser shortly before download. So just be very careful about all of that. It can be something as annoying as malware or something as a malicious. [00:20:17] Well, potentially as ransomware. Particularly if you're running windows, Hey, if you want to find out more about this, if you want to get into some of my free courses here, we got free boot camps coming up. Make sure you go to Craig peterson.com/subscribe. More than glad to send you my show notes, a little bit of training, and of course, let you attend these free bootcamps that are now to sell you stuff, but solve problems for you. [00:20:49] Hey, if you use VPNs to try and keep yourself safe, particularly if you use express VPN. Wow. What just came out is incredible. It is anything but safe and secure. [00:21:06] Express VPN was purchased by a company called Cape K A P E. Cape is a company that had changed its name because oh, things were bad. [00:21:19] Right. It was originally founded under the name of cross writer. And you might've seen notices from your anti-malware software over the years for everything from Malwarebytes on saying that, oh, it blew up. To this cross writer piece of malware, most of the time it's ad ware, but it is really interesting to see because this company was founded by a person who was part of the Israeli secret service. Right? So it wasn't of course not. It's not called the secret service over there in Israel. And it, frankly, it compares to our NSA, you know, no such agency. Yeah. It's part of unit 8,200 in the Israeli intelligence military. And it's been dubbed, of course, Israel's NSA. Teddy Saggy, which was one of these investors also was mentioned in the Panama papers. [00:22:24] Remember those? We talked about those back in 2016, those were leaked and that showed these law firm, this one particular law firm in panel. And that we're sheltering assets for people all over the world. And so now that express VPN is owned by this company that is, this company built entirely by intelligence agents for almost a billion. [00:22:55] Dollars in cash and stock purchases. That's a much, they sold express VPN for almost a billion dollars, which is kind of crazy when you think of it as a VPN service, but makes a lot of sense. If you're going to want to monitor what people are doing, where they're going, maybe even break into their systems or better choice than a VPN provider and the. [00:23:20] The company has been buying up VPN providers and is now the proud owner of express VPN. If you attended my VPN workshop that I had, oh, it's probably been a year and I'm going to start doing these again. I promise, I promise. I promise, but you know how much I just like VPNs. In fact, one of you guys, I'm sorry, I forgot your name. [00:23:46] Send me. A couple of weeks ago now about VPNs and saying, I know how much you disliked VPN look at this article. And it was talking about this whole thing with express VPN. So they just now all over the place, the discussions online about what. Been to hear who the founder was, the CEO, the CTO, this growing portfolio that they have in Sunbrella of ownerships, that now is centralized in a multiple VPNs. [00:24:15] Now, Cape technology only started acquiring VPN companies about four years ago. And they've been in business now for over a decade. And what were they doing before? They started buying VPN companies? While they own VPN companies. Oh, they were a major manufacturer and distributor of. Malware of varying types. [00:24:40] Now the first part of the show today, of course, I was explaining some of the differences, like ad words, et cetera, so that you could understand this story. Right? Ghulja that? So you can understand this. That's what these guys have been doing. It's absolutely crazy. So the F the co-founder of Cape technology and former CEO started his career in information technologies while serving in the Israeli defense forces. [00:25:08] As I mentioned, Israeli intelligence Corps under unit 8,200 it's that unit is responsible for. Dean what's called signal intelligence and data decryption. Now we have signal intelligence here as well, and that's basically intercepting signals, figuring out what's being said, what's going on? Where they are, the size of the forces, et cetera. [00:25:32] I have a friend of mine, a young lady who is in signal intelligence in, I think it's the Navy, but every part of our military has it is. However, our military doesn't directly control VPM services like express VPN that can be used in a very big spike capacity. That's what I'm really concerned about. Now. I also, I found an interesting article on zero hedge about this, uh, you know, this company express, VPN being acquired. [00:26:06] But they're also pointing out that companies that were founded by former operatives of unit 8,200. That again, the Israeli version of the NSA included. Ways Elbit systems, which is right in my hometown of Merrimack, New Hampshire and slews of other startups now ways. Right. I, I used ways I recommended people to use it and of course, Google bought it a few years back and that's when I stopped using it, but it was really nice. [00:26:39] It worked really well. And I had no idea the information was likely going to. The Israeli defense Corps. Oh my goodness. There's spy agencies, uh, and a bunch of other startups, by the way. It's estimated that there have been over 1000 stack tech startups that came out of the people working at unit 8,208. [00:27:07] Again, they're CIA NSA, uh, guys, their spine on everybody. You can, you believe that? And they've been bought by a mentioned Google, but other companies like Kodak, PayPal, Facebook, Microsoft have bought them. So in addition to the thousands of companies, according to zero. Uh, unit 8,200 has also fostered close working relationship with the U S government, which you would expect, right? [00:27:33] Edward Snowden. You remember him? He disclosed leaked documents. He obtained, which included an agreement between the NSA and the Israeli defense force. The agreement showed that the U S intelligence. Agency would share information. It collected under domestic surveillance operations with it. Israeli counterpart. [00:27:53] You remember we talked before about the five eyes, seven eyes searching eyes. It's up in the twenties. Now these countries that spy on each other citizens. For the other countries, right? Yeah. Your information might not be collected by the U S government, but the U S government gets it by buying it from private contractors, which it says it can do because we're only barred from collecting it ourselves. [00:28:17] We can use private contractors that collected on you. And also by going in partnership with foreign government. Because again, we can't collect that information, but we can certainly have the Israelis or, or the Brits or the Australians or Canada. They could collect it from. Can you believe this, how they're just stretching these rules to fit in what they want to fit. [00:28:39] Okay. Completely ignoring not only the constitution, but the laws of the United States. It's, it's just absolutely incredible. So critics of this unit, Eddy 200 attested that the Israeli intelligence outfit routinely uses the data received from the NSA by providing it to. Politicians Israeli politicians for the basics of blackmailing. [00:29:06] Yes. Blackmailing others. Yes. Indeed. Other whistle blowers have revealed any two hundreds operations have been able to disrupt Syrian air defense systems, hack Russia. Cap Kaspersky labs. You remember I told you guys don't use Kaspersky antivirus and has outfitted several Israeli embassies with Glendale, seen surveillance systems, cleanse Stein. [00:29:31] However you want to pronounce it. By the time Cape technologies acquired his first VPN company. Uh, the CE original CEO had left and he went on to found cup pie before leaving as it CEO in 2019, it goes on and on, uh, bottom line gas, SWAT express VPN, which is advertised by so many conservatives. Now looks like it is actually part of a spy operation. [00:30:01] So sign up now. Craig peterson.com. Craig peterson.com/subscribe. You're going to want to attend my free VPN webinar. Hey, I don't have anything to sell you when it comes to VPNs. I just want you to know the truth. [00:30:17] Labor shortages are making businesses turn direction. And now that we're laying off people or firing them because they didn't take the jab, what are businesses going to do? Well, I have news for you that reduced workforce, well, guess what?. [00:30:34] U.S. Businesses are really seriously moving to automation. [00:30:39] Now they've been doing this since the start of this whole lockdown. They were doing it even before then. I tell the story of when I was in France, a boom went four or five years ago now, and I stayed off the beaten path. I was not in the touristy areas. I speak French. So I went just where the. I decided to go, my wife and I, so we rented a car and we spent a month just kind of driving around where do we want to go next to, or do we want to go next? [00:31:08] It was a whole lot of fun. And while we were there on a Sunday, I came to realize that these small French towns have no restaurants open on Sunday, nothing at all, talking about a bit of a culture shock. That's not true. There was one restaurant opened in the town and that restaurant was, and McDonald's. [00:31:30] So when I go to McDonald's here a few years ago in France, central France. And when I walk in, there's nobody at the counter, but they're all. Oh, half a dozen kiosks out front. So you go and you order your hamburger, whatever might be, or your drinks, et cetera, right there in the kiosk, you pay for them riding the kiosk. [00:31:53] And there's some people working out back that are then making the hamburgers or the milkshakes or coffee, whatever you ordered and bringing it up to the front. And then they just put her right there for you to grab that simple. And this was of course, pre. Down days, I assume that it has gone even more automated. [00:32:14] Uh, they're in France, but hard to say. And I've seen the same thing here in the us. I was out in Vermont just about a month ago and I was riding with a buddy of mine, motorcycle riding, couple of buddies, actually. And we stopped in this small. Town. And we went to this little breasts, breakfast restaurant and the breakfast restaurant had maybe four or five tables inside. [00:32:42] And you just sat at the table. No waitress came up, but there's little sign with the QR code. So it said a scan, the QR code to get started. So you scanned it, it knew based on the QR code, which table you were at, and it showed you the menu that was in effect right then and there. So the lunch menu or the breakfast or the all day, you got to pick it and then you selected what you wanted. [00:33:08] It used whatever payment you wanted. I used apple pay. And in order to pay for my breakfast and my buddy ordered what he wanted. And then out came a waitress who delivered the food. Once it was already in the drinks, it was very automated. It allowed them to cut back on some people and others, this small restaurant, they probably had one last waitress, but when you kind of had in the shifts. [00:33:33] Days and vacation days is probably two waitresses. So they're saving some serious money because a system like this that you just scan a QR code and do the order and it prints up in the kitchen is cheap compared to hiring. Well, of course, it's hard to hire people, especially in the restaurant industry nowadays heck and in my business where we go in and we do analysis of computer networks and systems, it's almost impossible to find people that are really well qualified that understand the regulations that apply to these different businesses. [00:34:10] So it's like, forget about it. There's more than a million of these jobs open right now. And just in this cybersecurity. Well, September mark, the end of the real lockdown induced unemployment benefits workers. Didn't just flood the labor market as we kind of expected. And we have now few, we have more people now. [00:34:38] Who are out of the workforce. Who've decided not to look for a job than we did in 2008. So that's telling you something 2008 during the great recession. Interesting things are about to happen, but there's a great little article that I found in. Times this week, and it's talking about this quality local products company out of Chicago, the prince logos on merchandise, like t-shirts water bottles, you know, the little stress balls, all of that sort of stuff. [00:35:10] And he said prior to the pandemic, we had over 120 employees. That's the co-founder talk in there. And he said, Primary focus was on growth. We simply plugged any holes or any efficiencies that we could along the way with human capital, bringing people in. But once the lockdown happened, of course, all of a sudden now you don't have the access to employees you had before. [00:35:36] So they had a huge decrease also in business. So those two went hand in hand. They let a lot of people go and they use the opportunity to program many of the previous manual and human controlled activities into computers. So now 18 months later, yeah, two weeks to flatten the curve. Right? 18 months later, the company employees, 83 workers. [00:36:03] And as managing a workload, that's pretty much the same as pre lockdown. So they went from over 120 employees down to 83. So basically they cut 40 employees from the workforce. That's a whole lot of quarter of the workforce gone. They don't need them anymore. So that's going to help produce more profits for them. [00:36:27] A lot more profits. Cause usually automating. Yeah, it can be painful, but it usually has major paybacks and that's exactly what it had for them. And they're saying that they anticipate that they can reduce employees even more by the end of this year and get their head count below. 50 now 50 is a magic number. [00:36:48] So it was a hundred when it comes to employees. Well, one is like the biggest magic number because when, once you have one employee, you all of a sudden have to comply with all kinds of rules, regulations, state, local, federal. But if you hit 50 employees, you have the next step of major new regulations that are gonna affect your business. [00:37:09] And then when you hit a hundred employees, Even more, so many people try and keep their businesses below 50 employees because it's just not worth it to have all of those regulations, additional regulation, taxes, and everything else. Another company, this is a California based property management. The managing more than 90,000 commercial and residential properties. [00:37:33] And what they've done is they added a chat feature to the website, the company's called sea breeze. And he says, even though we have the live chat, you can still reach us outside of business hours. Well, You are using the chat or you can call us either way, but they're saying people like the simple form and someone gets back to them as soon as they can. [00:37:57] So they're avoiding now having staff available 24 7 to respond to chat messages and to respond to the voicemails and phone calls that come in. So it's pretty good all the way around, frankly, new shopping models are in place. I'm looking at a picture of a business and it has. Of course, a window up front and in the window they have jewelry. [00:38:21] This is a jewelry store and they've got QR codes in front of each of these pieces of jewelry right on the inside of the window. So if you're interested in finding out more about that piece of jewelry, Just scan the QR code. It'll take you to the right page on their website and we'll even let you buy the jewelry and they will mail it to you again. [00:38:46] How's that for? Great. If you have a business in a tourist jury area and you don't want to be open until 11:00 PM at night, your story can keep selling for you. Even when you're close. This is window shopping, taken to an extreme, very simple. To do as well. This company is called full me waiter. Obviously they've got a bit of a sea theme here. [00:39:10] So once someone orders the jewelry and the other merchandise sent right to them, or they can have it set for pickup in the store, when they next open it's phenomenal. They're calling. Alfresco shopping space, right from the sidewalk. So businesses again are returning to pre pandemic levels and he, this guy is available in the store by appointment only he's loving it. [00:39:37] And he says that customers have been so satisfied with this QR code window shopping contract. That he wrote a guidebook. You can get it@scantshopsolution.com or excuse me, scan, just shop solution.com. I misread that. So any retailers who want to use this method, if you don't know what QR codes are, or you don't know how to code it into a website, et cetera, she's got webinars she's taught on it and she's got the guide book. [00:40:05] I think this is great. Right? So she's now making some money on. Explain to other people, how she did this. It's phenomenal across industries. Epic times is saying the staffing shortages could be temporary, but as firms are further embracing, embracing automation and all of its benefits, some of these jobs that people just don't want anymore may actually be going away. [00:40:33] And I think this is ultimately a problem. We had, uh, you know, again, I'm older generation, right? Us baby boomers. We had opportunities when we were younger. I had newspaper routes. I had the biggest drought in the area. I can't remember. It was like 120 homes. It was huge. It took me hours to do, but I made money. [00:40:56] I learned how to interact with people. I knew, I learned how to do bill collection, how important it was not to let customers get too far behind on their bills. Although I have been slack on that one, I'm afraid, but it helped me out a lot. So, what are kids going to do that need to learn a work ethic that need to be able to have a job, make the mistakes, maybe get fired a once or twice or, or three times maybe learn how to interact with customers. [00:41:27] Everyone, I think can benefit from some retail experience. Get that when you're young and if these jobs don't exist, then. Or the younger generations here, are they just going to be trying to find jobs they can do with Instagram? Right? They're all I know. A few kids who have said, well, I'm a social media influencer and you look them up and okay. [00:41:50] So they got a thousand people following them. I have far more than that, but you know, it, that's not a job. It's not going to last. Your looks are only going to last so long. Right now you start having a family and you start working hard outdoors, et cetera. There's a lot of things that make that all go away. [00:42:09] So I think many businesses now we're going to continue to accelerate our plans program out and. A lot of weld pain positions, as well as these entry-level positions in the next five or 10 years. Really? I don't even know if it's going to be 10 years retool retrain our workforce, or everyone's going to be in for a world of hurt. [00:42:33] Hey, make sure you subscribe. So you're not in a world of hurt. Get my latest in news, especially tech news and cybersecurity. Craig peterson.com. [00:42:46] In this day and age, if you don't have a burner identity, you are really risking things from having your identities stolen through these business, email compromises. It's really crazy. That's what we're going to talk about. [00:43:03] An important part of keeping ourselves safe in this day and age really is con to confuse the hackers. The hackers are out there. They're trying to do some things. For instance, like business, email compromise. It is one of the biggest crimes out there today. You know, you hear about ransomware and. It hits the news legitimately. [00:43:26] It's very scary. It can really destroy your business and it can hurt you badly. If you're an individual you don't want ransomware. Well, how about those emails that come in? I just got an email in fact, from a listener this week and they got a phone call. His wife answered and it was Amazon on the phone and Amazon said, Hey, listen, your account's been hacked. [00:43:54] We need to clear it up so that your identity doesn't get stolen. And there's a fee for this. It's a $500 fee. And what you have to do is just go to amazon.com. Buy a gift card and we'll then take that gift card number from you. And we'll use that as the fee to help recover your stolen information. So she went ahead and did it. [00:44:20] She went ahead and did all of the things that the hackers wanted and now they had a gift card. Thank you very much. We'll follow up on this and. Now she told her husband, and of course this isn't a sex specific thing, right. It could have happened to either one. My dad fell for one of these scams as well. [00:44:44] So she told her husband or her husband looked at what had happened and said, oh my gosh, I don't think this is right. Let me tell you, first of all, Amazon, your bank, various credit card companies are not going to call you on the phone. They'll send you a message right. From their app, which is usually how I get notified about something. [00:45:10] Or they will send an email to the registered to email that. Uh, that you set up on that account. So that email address then is used by them to contact you right. Pretty simple. Or they might send you a text message. If you've registered a phone for notifications, that's how they contact you. It's like the IRS. [00:45:35] I was at a trade show and I was on the floor. We were exhausted. And I got no less than six phone calls from a lady claiming to be from the IRS and I needed to pay right away. And if I didn't pay right away, they were going to seize everything. And so all I had to do. Buy a gift card, a visa gift card, give her the number and she would use that to pay the taxes it and this lady had a, an American accent to one that you would recognize. [00:46:10] I'm sure. And it's not something that they do now. They do send emails, as I said. So the part of the problem with sending emails is, is it really them? Are they sending a legitimate email to a legitimate email address? Always a good question. Well, here's the answer. Yeah, they'll do that. But how do you know that it isn't a hacker sending you the email? [00:46:42] It can get pretty complicated. Looking into the email headers, trying to track. Where did this come from? Which email servers did it go through? Was it authenticated? Did we accept? Did the, uh, the provider use proper records in their DNS, the SPIF, et cetera, to make sure that it's legitimate. Right? How do you follow up on that? [00:47:07] That's what we do for our clients. And it gets pretty complicated looking at DKMS and everything else to verify that it was legitimate, making sure that the email came from a registered MX server from the, the real center. There is a way around this. And this has to do with the identities, having these fake burner identities. [00:47:33] I've been doing this for decades myself, but now it's easy enough for anybody to be able to do. There are some services out there. And one of the more recommended ones. And this is even the New York times, they have an article about this. They prefer something called simple log-in. You can find them online. [00:47:57] You can go to simple login dot I O. To get started now it's pretty darn cool. Cause they're using, what's called open source software it's software. Anybody can examine to figure out is this legitimate or not? And of course it is legitimate, but, uh, they it's, it's all out there for the whole world to see. [00:48:17] And that means it's less likely in some ways to be hacked. There are people who argue that having open source software means even more. In some ways you are, but most ways you're not, anyways, it doesn't matter. Simple login.io. Now, why would you consider doing this? Uh, something like simple login? Well, simple login is nice because it allows you to create dozens and dozens of different email address. [00:48:51] And the idea is with simple log-in it will forward the email to you at your real email address. So let's say you're doing some online shopping. You can go ahead and set up an email address for, you know, whatever it is, shopping company.com, uh, that you're going to use a shopping company.com. So you'd go there. [00:49:13] You put in two simple log-in, uh, I want to create a new identity and you tag what it's for, and then you then go to some, um, you know, shopping company.com and use the email address that was generated for you by simple login. Now you're a simple login again. Is it going to be tied into your real email account, wherever that might be if using proton mail, which is a very secure email system, or if using outlook or heaven forbid Gmail or one of these others, the email will be forwarded to you. [00:49:52] You will be able to see that indeed that email was sent to your. Shopping company.com email address or your bank of America, email address, et cetera, et cetera, that makes it much easier for you to be able to tell, was this a legitimate email? In other words, if your bank's really trying to get ahold of you, and they're going to send you an email, they're going to send you an email to an address that you use exclusive. [00:50:22] For bank of America. In reality, you only have the one email box that is over there on wherever proton, mail, outlook, Gmail, your business. You only have that one box you have to look at, but the email is sent to simple login. Does that make sense? You guys, so you can create a, these alias email boxes. It will go ahead and forward. [00:50:49] Any emails sent to them, to you, and you'll be able to tell if this was indeed from the company, because that's the only place that you use that email address. That makes it simple, but you don't have to maintain dozens or hundreds of email accounts. You only have the one email account. And by the way, you can respond to the email using that special aliased email address that you created for the shopping company or bank of America or TD or whomever. [00:51:22] It might be, you can send from that address as well. So check it out online, simple log-in dot IO. I really liked this idea. It has been used by a lot of people over, out there. Now here's one other thing that it does for you, and this is important as well. Not using the same email address. Everywhere means that when the hackers get your email address from shopping company.com or wherever, right. [00:51:56] pets.com, you name it. They can not take that and put it together with other information and use that for business, email compromise. Does that make sense? It's it makes it pretty simple, pretty straightforward. Don't get caught in the whole business email compromise thing. It can really, really hurt you. [00:52:19] And it has, it's one of the worst things out there right now, dollar for dollar it's right up there. It, by the way is one of the ways they get ransomware into your systems. So be very careful about that. Always use a different email address for every. Website you sign up for. Oh, and they do have paid plans like a $30 a year plan over at simple IO will get you unlimited aliases, unlimited mailboxes, even your own domain name. [00:52:50] So it makes it pretty simple, pretty handy. There's other things you might want to do for instance, use virtual credit cards. And we'll talk about those a little bit. As well, because I, I think this is very important. Hey, I want to remind everybody that I have started putting together some trainings. [00:53:12] You're going to get a little training at least once a week, and we're going to put all of that into. We have been calling our newsletter. I think we might change the name of it a little bit, but you'll be getting those every week. And the only way to get those is to be on that email list. Go to Craig peterson.com/subscribe. [00:53:35] Please do that right. I am not going to harass you. I'm not going to be one of those. And I've never been one of those internet. Marketers is sending you multiple dozens of emails a day, but I do want to keep you up to date. So stick around, we will be back here in just a couple of minutes. And of course you're listening to Craig Peterson. [00:53:59] And again, the website, Craig peterson.com stick around because we'll be right back. [00:54:05] One of the best ways to preserve your security on line is by using what we're calling burner identities, something that I've been doing for more than 30 years. We're going to talk more about how to do that right. [00:54:20] We've talked about email and how important that is. I want to talk now about fake identities. Now, a lot of people get worried about it. It sounds like it's something that might be kind of sketchy, but it is not to use fake identities in order to confuse the hackers in order to make it. So they really can't do the things that they. [00:54:46] To do they can't send you fishing ear emails, particularly spear phishing emails. That'll catch you off guard because you're using a fake. How do you do that? Well, I mentioned to you before that I have a thousands of fake identities that I created using census data. And I'm going to tell you how you can do it as well. [00:55:13] Right? There's a website out there called fake name a generator. You'll find it online@fakenamegenerator.com. I'm on that page right now. And I'm looking at a randomly generated identity. It has the option right on this page to specify the sex. And it says random by default, the name set, I chose American the country United States. [00:55:44] So it is applying both American and Hispanic names to this creative. And now remember it's doing the creation based on census data and some other public data, but it is not giving you one identity of any real. I think that's important to remember, and you're not going to use these identities for illegal purposes. [00:56:11] And that includes, obviously when you set up a bank account, you have to use your real name. However, you don't have to use your. If you will real email address, you can use things like simple login that will forward the email to you, but we'll let you know who was sent to. And if you only use that one email address for the bank, then you know that it came from the bank or the email address was stolen from the bank. [00:56:40] Right. All of that stuff. We've talked about that already. So in this case, The name has come up with for me is Maurice D St. George in Jacksonville, Florida even gives an address, uh, in this case it's 36 54 Willis avenue in Jacksonville, Florida. So if I go right now, Uh, two, I'm going to do use Google maps and I am going to put in that address. [00:57:11] Here we go. Jacksonville willows avenue, all the guests. What there is a Willis avenue in Jacksonville, and it's showing hoes from Google street view. Let me pull that up even bigger. And there it is. So ta-da, it looks like it gave me. Fairly real address. Now the address it gave me was 36 54, which does not exist. [00:57:40] There is a 365, but anyways, so it is a fake street address. So that's good to know some, if I were to use this, then I'm going to get my. Uh, my mail saying why about I pass? So, uh, Maurissa tells you what Maurice means, which is kind of neat. It'll give you a mother's maiden name. Gremillion is what a gave me here, a social security number. [00:58:06] So it creates one that passes what's called a check sum test. So that if you put it into a computer system, it's going to do a real quick check and say, yeah, it looks. To me. So it's was not just the right number of digits. It also passes the check, some tasks. Well-known how to do a check sum on their social security numbers. [00:58:27] So again, it's no big deal. And remember, you're not going to use this to defraud anyone. You're going to use this for websites that don't really need to know, kind of give me a break. Why do you need all this information? It gives me a phone number with the right area code. Uh, and so I'm going to go ahead and look up this phone number right now. [00:58:50] Remember, use duck, duck go. Some people will use Google search and it says the phone number gave me is a robo call. As I slide down, there's some complaints on that. Uh, so there you go. So they giving us a phone number that is not a real person's phone number, country code, of course one, cause I said United state birth date. [00:59:13] Oh, I was born October 7th, year, 2000. I'm 20 years old. And that means I'm a Libra. Hey, look at all this stuff. So it's giving me an email address, which is a real email address that you can click to activate or right there. Again, I mentioned the simple login.io earlier, but you can do a right here and it's got a username and created for me a password, which is actually a pretty deep. [00:59:41] The password. It's a random one, a website for me, my browser user agent, a MasterCard, a fake MasterCard number with an expiration and a CVC to code all of this stuff. My height is five six on kind of short for. Uh, my weight is 186 pounds own negative blood type ups tracking number Western union number MoneyGram number. [01:00:11] My favorite color is blue and I drive a 2004 Kia Sorento and it also has a unique ID. And, uh, you can use that wherever you want. So the reason I brought this up again, it's called fake name generator.com is when you are going to a website where there is no legal responsibility for you to tell them the true. [01:00:39] You can use this. And so I've, I've used it all over the place. For instance, get hub where you have, uh, it's a site that allows you to have software projects as you're developing software. So you can put stuff in, get hub. Well, they don't know to know, need to know who I really am. Now they have a credit card number for me. [01:01:01] Because I'm on a paid plan. I pay every month, but guess what? It isn't my real credit card number. It isn't the number that I got from fake name generator. My credit card company allows me to generate either a single use credit card numbers, or in this case, a credit card. Number four, get hub doc. So just as an example, that's how I use it. [01:01:24] So if get hub gets hacked, the hackers have an email address and a name that tipped me off right away, where this is coming from. And if the email didn't come from GitHub by no, they either sold my information to a marketing company, or this is a hacker. Trying to manipulate me through some form of his fishing scheme. [01:01:47] So I know you guys are the breasts and best and brightest. A lot of you understand what I'm talking about and I'm talking about how you can create a burner identity. And let me tell you, it is more important today to create a burner identity. Then it has ever been at any point in the past because frankly burner identities are one of the ways that you can really mess up some of the marketing firms out there that are trying to put the information together, these data aggregator companies, and also the hackers. [01:02:24] And it's really the hackers that were off up against here. And we're trying to prevent them from. Getting all of this information. So when we come back, I want to talk about the next step, which is which credit cards can you get? These single use card numbers from? Should you consider using PayPal when my Google voice be a really good alternative for you? [01:02:52] So we're going to get into all of that stuff. Stick around in the meantime, make sure you go to Craig peterson.com/subscribe. Get my newsletter. All of this. Is in there. It makes it simple. It's a simple thing to do. Craig peterson.com. And if you have any questions, just email me M e@craigpeterson.com. [01:03:20] Having your credit card stolen can be a real problem for any one of us. It gives the bad guys, a lot of options to spend a lot of money very quickly. We're going to talk right now about virtual credit cards. What are they, what does it mean? [01:03:37] Virtual credit cards come in two basic forms. [01:03:41] One is a single use credit card, which was quite popular back when these things first came out and another one is a virtual credit card that has either a specific life. In other words, it's only good for 30 days or that can be used until you cancel it. If you have a credit card, a visa, MasterCard, American express discover all of the major card issuers will give you the ability to reverse any charges that might come onto your cards. [01:04:19] If your card is stolen or missing. Now that makes it quite easy. Doesn't it? I want to point out that if you're using a debit card, as opposed to a credit card, there's not much challenging you can do with the credit card. You can say, I am not going to make my pain. And, uh, because of this, that, and the other thing, this was stolen, et cetera, they can file it as a disputed charge. [01:04:46] They can do an investigation find out. Yeah. I'm you probably were not at a bus terminal down in Mexico city, which happened to me. 'cause I was up here in New Hampshire, quite a ways down to Mexico city. And so they just reversed it out. That money never came out of my bank account because it was on a credit card. [01:05:08] If I were using a debit card. That money would have come right out of my account. Now, mind you, a bus ticket in Mexico city is not very expensive, but many people have had charges of many thousands of dollars. And if you need that money in your checking account, and you're using a debit card, you got a problem because your check for, well, if you ever have to pay rent again, red check is going. [01:05:38] Bound because they just empty it out to your bank account. So now you have to fight with the bank, get the money back. They will, they will eventually refund it, but it could make some of you. Transactions that you might've written a check or something, it'll make them bounce. And that could be a real problem. [01:05:57] These, it could make them bounce. So using a credit card is typically less of a hassle online. So why would you want to use a virtual card or also known as a master credit card? Masked and may S K E D? Well, the main reason behind this is to allow you. Control payment. I've used them. In fact, I use them exclusively on every website online. [01:06:29] And I'm going to tell you the names of some of them here in just a couple of minutes, but I use them all of the time. And part of the reason is let's say, I want to camp. Uh, service. Have you ever tried to cancel a service before and you have to call them many times, right. And so you're, you're arguing with somebody overseas somewhere who doesn't want you to close the account. [01:06:53] And of course the. Bump you up to the next level person who also doesn't want you to close the account. And so you have to fuss fuss, fuss, fuss. Have you ever had that experience and I'm sure you have. It just happens all the time. So with using the virtual credit card, Well, the advantage to me is, Hey, if you are going to try and fight with me, I don't care because I'm just going to cancel that credit card number. [01:07:24] So I don't have to cancel my credit card. I don't have to have the company reissue credit card for me. I don't have to do any of this sort of thing that makes my life pretty easy. Doesn't it? And so, because of that, I am now I think in a much better. Place, because it just, I don't have to fight with people anymore. [01:07:43] So that's one of the reasons I used it. The other big reason is if it gets stolen, they can cause less harm. Some of these credit card it's virtual credit cards are set up in such a way that you can limit the amount that's charged on them. Do you like that? So if you are using it on a site that maybe is charging you $50 a month, no problem. [01:08:09] $50 a month comes off of the credit card. And if someone tries to charge more bounces and then hopefully you find out, wait a minute, it just bounced on me right now. Then next step up is okay. It bounced and. Uh, I am just going to cancel the card and then you issue a new credit card number for that website. [01:08:32] So an example. In my case has get hub.com. We keep software up there and they charge me every month if get hub were to get hacked and that credit card number stolen I'm I really don't care because there's almost nothing that can happen. And if good hub doesn't properly cancel. My account, I can just cancel the credit card and, you know, let them come after me. [01:08:57] Right. This isn't going to happen. So then it's also called a master credit card number because it's a little safer than using your real credit card details. I also want to point out something about debit card. I went for years with no credit cards at all. Nowadays, many of my vendors will take a credit card for payment. [01:09:20] And in fact, give me a bit of a better deal. And then with the credit card, I can get 2% cash back, which I use to pay down the credit card. Right. It couldn't get any better than that, but when you're using a debit card, what I always. Is I had two accounts that I could transfer money between at the bank. [01:09:42] So I had one checking account. That was my main operating, if you will account. And then I had another checking account where I would be. Just moving money out of it. Or you could even do it with a savings account, but some banks, they only let you do so many transactions a month on a savings account. So the idea is I know that I have this much in credit card obligate while debit card obligations for this month, that money is going to be coming out. [01:10:11] So I make sure that. In the debit card account to cover the legitimate transactions I know are coming up and then I keep everything else in the other account. And then I manually transferred over every month. So that's how I dealt with the whole debit card thing. And it worked really well for me. Bottom line. [01:10:30] I think it's a really great. So there you go, who are the companies that you can use to do this? I've used some of these before all of them have worked really well. If you have a capital one credit card, they have something called Eno, E N O, and it's available to all capital one card. You know, even has an extension for your web browsers. [01:10:59] So if it notices you're on a webpage, it's asking for credit card number, it'll pop up and say, do you want me to create a credit card number or a virtual one for this websites you can make your payment. Does it get much easier than that? Citibank has something they call a virtual credit cards available to all Citibank card holders, master pass by MasterCard. [01:11:23] That's available to any MasterCard visa, American express discover Diner's club card holders, credit, debit, and prepaid cards by their way. So you might want to check that one out. Uh, yeah, so that's the only one I see on my list here. That will do it for debit cards, Masterpass by MasterCard American express checkouts, available to all American express card holders. [01:11:51] Chase pay available to all chase card holders, Wells Fargo, wallet, uh, visa checkouts, available to all visa, MasterCard, and American express and discover color card holders, credit and debit cards. Plus. Prepaid cards. Okay. So it does do the debit cards as well. Final that's all owned by Goldman Sachs and is not accepting any new applicants and entro pay. [01:12:19] Also not accepting new applicants. There's a couple online. You might also want to check out our Pyne. Premium Al buying. I'm buying a, B I N E blur premium. You might want to check that out as well. All right, everybody make sure you check me out. Craig peterson.com/subscribe. [01:12:43] We're going to wrap up how you should be using these burner identities of few more tips and tricks that are going to help keep you safe from the hackers that are out there. So here we go. [01:12:58] There are a lot of hackers out there. [01:13:01] The numbers are just astounding. The cost of these hackers coming in and stealing our information is just unbelievable. And it goes all the way from big corporations, from things like the colonial pipeline, the U S government all the way on down through you and me. I want to tell you a little story about a friend of mine. [01:13:28] He is about 75 years old and he supplements his income by driving for Uber eats and one other company. And so what he'll do is someone puts in an order for food somewhere. He'll go pick it up and then he'll drive it to where whoever wanted wanted, whoever ordered it. Now, there are. Pricing number of scams with this. [01:13:55] So he's very careful about some of that orders, a cookie, for instance, because it's usually a bit of a scam anyways, we won't get into those, but I'll tell you what happened to him. His information was stolen online as it was probably yours. Mine I know was as well. So it's all stolen. What do you do? While in his case, what ended up happening is they managed to get into his email account. [01:14:27] Once they're in his email account, they now had access to the emails he was getting from one of these companies. Now it wasn't the Uber eats guy. He was, there was another company. So let's just explain this a little bit. Uber eats sends him a request for him to go ahead and do a double. So, you know, go to the restaurant, pick it up and take it to this client's house. [01:14:54] And in order for him to register, he had to register an email address. Now, of course, he uses the same email address for everything, all of the. Now, personally, that drives me a little bit insane, but that's what he does. And he has just a few passwords. Now. He writes them down a little book and heaven forbid he ever lose the book so that he can remember them. [01:15:24] He just wants to keep his life simple. Right. He's 75. He's not technophobic, but you know, he's not up on all of this stuff. What he found was a paycheck didn't show. And it was an $800 paycheck. We're talking about real money that he should have had in his. It didn't show up. So he calls up the company and says what happened to my paycheck and their record show? [01:15:53] Yes, indeed. It had been paid. We paid you, we deposited right into your account. Just like you asked. Yeah. You know, ACH into the account. Great. Wonderful. What had happened is bad guys had gone, gained control of his email address and use that now. Because they figured, well, I see some emails in his account from this food delivery service, so, well, let's try and see if this email address that we're looking at right now. [01:16:26] All of his emails let's look and see. Okay. Yeah. Same. Email address and same password as a used ad at this email address. Yeah, it worked. Okay. Great. So now we have access to this guys food delivery account. So they changed. The bank account number now, easy enough to confirm, right. They change it and send you an email. [01:16:54] Hey, I want to make sure that it was you until the bad guys, the hackers click out, yada yada. Yeah, it was me and then delete the email. So he doesn't see it. And now his $800 paycheck. In fact, I think there were a couple of different checks is deposited directly into the bad guy's bank account and. The money of course is transferred out pretty quickly. [01:17:18] Now the, that guys, these hackers are using what are called mules. You might be familiar with that in the drug trade. They'll have a third party deliver the drugs just to mule. They don't know what all is going on. They probably know the delivering drugs in this case, most of the meals are useful idiots of which there are many in this country. [01:17:43] Unfortunate. Uh, political and otherwise. And these people are convinced that all they need to do is transfer the money into this account so that the hackers can then pull it out. And you know, now they're going to take care of their grandmother who is stuck in the hospital and they have no way to pay for it. [01:18:07] And they can't transfer the money out of the country during. That's one of the stories they use for people. And in many cases, these meals know what they're doing. The FBI earlier this year arrested a whole group of mules out in California that were purposefully transferring the money. They knew what they were doing. [01:18:28] So his money was now out of the country. No way to get it. And this food delivery company was not about to pay him. So it, isn't just the big guys it's you and me as well. So what I want to talk about right now is multi-factor authentication. Now. You guys are the best and brightest. I hope you understand this. [01:18:54] If you have questions, please reach out to me. I am more than

Murder Murder News - The Listen Edition

Actress Dominique Dunne was strangled to death by her abusive boyfriend, John Sweeney, on October 30th 1982. Aurora and Angelina review the red flags leading up to Dominique's murder, the ties her story has to Halloween, and how her case inspired her already-famous father, Dominick Dunne, to pursue a career in the realm of True Crime. This episode also features a tribute to our friend and major supporter of MMN, Jenni Robertson, who we recently lost to domestic violence.Writing and research by Aurora Cady.Original music and audio production by Louis Levesque.For inquiries: louis14levesque@gmail.comF O L L O W  U S ! ! !I N S T A G R A M -- @murdermurdernewsT W I T T E R --  @mmurdernewsF A C E B O O K -- https://www.facebook.com/mmntruecrime/T I K T O K -- @murdermurdernewsY O U T U B E -- MurderMurder NewsJoin our Facebook Group | to chat about true crime, and to join our virtual book club!Check out MurderMurder.news for the latest breaking true crime news!For business inquiries: murdermurdernews@gmail.comSubmit a  spooky story: https://murdermurder.news/story-submission-form/---LINKS + SOURCES:Make a donation to the GoFundMe for Jenni and James RobertsonMake a donation to Austin-based shelter SAFE (Stop Abuse For Everyone)Domestic Violence Resources in the USA:https://www.thehotline.org/get-help/http://centerforpreventionofabuse.orgCanada:https://endingviolencecanada.org/getting-help-2/http://ncadv.org/resourcesUK:http://helpline.org.ukhttp://refuge.org.ukhttp://respect.uk.netAre you the abuser?https://www.mentalhelp.net/abuse/are-you-the-abuser/https://au.reachout.com/articles/dealing-with-your-own-violent-behaviour---https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominique_Dunnehttps://www.grunge.com/585554/the-tragic-death-of-poltergeist-actress-dominique-dunnehttps://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/1984/03/dunne198403https://www.ihorror.com/remembering-the-tragic-death-of-poltergeist-star-dominique-dunne/https://filmdaily.co/obsessions/true-crime/dominique-dunne/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Griffin_Dunnehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominick_Dunnehttps://www.biography.com/news/the-poltergeist-curse-its-heeerehttps://www.fanpop.com/clubs/dominique-dunne/articles/139077/title/who-dominique-dunnehttp://www.dddis.de/dominique-dunne-site/Biography/biography.htmlhttps://medium.com/the-true-crime-edition/injustice-for-dominique-dunne-66f5bac3998bhttps://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-12-03-mn-453-story.htmlhttp://www.laalmanac.com/communications/cm01x.php https://www.steinandmarkuslaw.com/homicide-laws-in-california/https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/women-and-crime/id1485129718?i=1000466520293 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-dominick-dunne-revived-interest-in-marthSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/murdermurdernews)

News In Context
Objectivity, Bias, and Doing Journalism Well, Pt. 2 with Tom Rosenstiel

News In Context

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 29, 2021 29:27


In this episode, we continue our conversation with Tom Rosenstiel, journalist, press critic, and co-author of the seminal book on Journalism, The Elements of Journalism, which is now in its third edition. Rosenstiel is also the author of ten other books, including four novels. He is currently the Eleanor Merrill visiting professor on the future of journalism at the Phillip Merrill college of journalism at the University of Maryland. In Part 1 of our conversation, we focused on many issues affecting U-S journalism, including the health of the industry and how things have shifted. We also discussed the role of politics, and the diminishing of local news, on the health of the journalism industry. In addition, we began our conversation about the role of objectivity and bias in journalism - what those words were meant to mean, and what they've become, as well as a discussion of opinion versus opinion journalism. Rosenstiel reminds us that opinion journalists are indeed journalists who were trained in the art of doing journalism well. We continue our conversation on objectivity and bias, as well as how journalism can play a more effective role in better informing the public.

19 Nocturne Boulevard
19 Nocturne Boulevard - HALLOW'S EVE - Reissue

19 Nocturne Boulevard

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 28, 2021 30:58


HALLOW'S EVE Good intentions may pave the way to ruin, but when Fran - a precocious 11-year old - sets out to rescue what she fervently hopes is a kidnapped child, Halloween may never be the same! Written and produced by Julie Hoverson Cast List Fran - E. Vickery Bobbie - M. Lane Officer Hooper - S. Connor Grigg - C. Hornaday Bool - B. Poole Kidnappers - J. Harvey & Mr.  Synyster Timmy & Billy - B. Lomatewama & R. LeBoeuf Mrs. Hooper - A. Kirby Thompson - S. Hoverson Ari & News Report - J. Hoverson Music:  Kevin MacLeod (Incompetech.com) Recorded with the assistance of Ryan Hirst of Neohoodoo Studio Editing and Sound:   Julie Hoverson Cover Photo: Jeff Mackay (courtesy of Stock Xchange.com)   "What kind of a place is it? Why it's a suburban street, where else would you find...goblins?"   ***************************************** This was one of the original episodes I had ready for the 2008 Halloween season.  It's set in a sort of 1950s era of classic monster movies.  I never actually specify that, but references to bobby socks and Corliss Archer (an old time radio show) should be a bit of a clue. One silly thing I should note in here is Fred and Bob (and in other episodes June and Kathy as well) - these are my generic names for extra characters who speak but don't really have personalities, and show up in surprising numbers if you look over the cast lists for a lot of my shows.  I found that I would waste time trying to come up with interesting names for all these background characters, and lose my train of thought and it would stall my writing, so I just dub the first such characters Bob and Fred for males and June and Kathy for females, and move on.  Later, they may become more specific and get real names, but often enough they just remain half generic.  I also find it makes them slightly easier to keep track of than "man1" or "woman B" Naming characters is often half the fun.  You see me play with names in many of my shows - D. Meeks in "A Stitch in Time", where Dougie jokes about "D. Meeks inheriting de Earth," or the way so many people in the vampire world of "The Big Dark" took new "vampire names" that are some variation on the characters from Stoker's Dracula. The names of episodes are often some kind of pun or inference, as well.  Not so much Hallow's Eve, but The Big Dark is a riff on The Big Sleep (which was a euphemism for death, in the Chandler novel), and the most difficult title to explain "Crumping The Devil" - crumping being a sort of hip hop adjacent challenge dance, conflated with my vague memory of story about an old woman Mrs. Crump who was so awful the devil wouldn't even take her. ***************************************** ALL HALLOW'S EVE Cast: Olivia, host Barbara "BOBBIE" Chandler [16], babysitter TIMMY Martin, child [9] FRAN Hooper, child [10] BILLY Jones, child [8] OFFICER HOOPER [30s] HOOPER [30s] GRIGG [alien] [adult] BOOL [alien child] FRED [30s], a thug BOB [30s], a thug ARI [8], kidnapped child THOMPSON [50s] RADIO VOICE MUSIC OLIVIA     Did you have any trouble finding it?  What do you mean, what kind of a place is it?  Why, it's a suburban street, can't you tell?  Where else would you find "goblins"?  MUSIC     SOMETHING CHILDLIKE   SCENE 1.    OUTSIDE, STREET SOUND    FOOTSTEPS, COSTUMES BOBBIE    There you go, that one's got a light, now shh! SOUND    CRUNCHING OF LEAVES, THEN FOOTSTEPS ON WOOD. BILLY    [giggles] TIMMY    Shh! SOUND    DOORBELL RINGS.  DOOR CREAKS OPEN. THOMPSON [deep spooky voice] Yeeees? CHILDREN    Trick or Treat!!! THOMPSON [regular voice, pleased] Well, you kids!  Hey Martha, come and look, we've got a ghost and a clown and -- and what are you, little boy? FRAN    I'm a girl.  And I'm a Martian. THOMPSON [amused] Well, fancy that! An invasion right here on our street!  Martha...? MUSIC   SCENE 2.    INSIDE, HOUSE MRS. HOOPER    Looks like we've got more goblins coming, dear! SOUND    FOOTSTEPS RADIO VOICE    --in the five county manhunt for-- OFFICER HOOPER    Just a minute, hun.  Gotta see what they're saying-- RADIO VOICE    --involved in the Stanopopolus kidnapping-- [continues under] MRS. HOOPER    It's not your case.  And it's Halloween.  Just because Bobbie was kind enough to take Fran with her doesn't let you off for holiday spirit.  At least until you go on shift. SOUND    SNAP.  RADIO OFF. SOUND    DOORBELL. MRS. HOOPER    Well? MUSIC   SCENE 3.    OUTSIDE, STREET BOBBIE    Come on punkins, you must be getting tired by now! BILLY    [very tired] I'm not! TIMMY    I slept all day. FRAN    [raring to go] I only have half a bag.  We can't stop yet! BOBBIE    It's almost 9 o'clock!  No one will be up much longer.  CHILDREN    Please! BOBBIE    All right.  Three more houses.  That's all. FRAN    Big houses always have the best treats.  We should go to the Palmer's, the Winchell's and that big one on the corner. BILLY    On the corner?  But, that's ... that's the haunted house! TIMMY    Scaredy cat.  FRAN    Phooey!  It was just empty.  I saw someone moving in yesterday.  BOBBIE    If they just moved in, they're probably not-- TIMMY    Let's make Billy go into the haunted house! BOBBIE    No!  Timothy-- BILLY    No!  I don't wanna-- FRAN    Shut up!  It's not haunted.  Boys are dumb. BILLY    Not haunted? BOBBIE    Look, it's getting cold out here, so let's get a move on, whichever houses you plan to go to.  OK? MUSIC   SCENE 4.    ON PORCH SOUND    TENTATIVE KNOCK ON THE DOOR BILLY    [scared, but hiding it - relieved] No one home! FRAN    I hear something! SOUND    DOOR OPENS SLOWLY CHILDREN    [Gasp] BOBBI    Well, he looks normal enough. GRIGG    [weird foreignish accent] Help you may I? TIM    [giggles] He's funny. FRAN    We're here for candy.  Trick or treat. GRIGG    Please? BOBBIE    Oh, gosh, you're foreign aren't you?  They might not even DO trick or treat where he comes from. FRAN    You have to give us candy or we have to play a trick on you! BOBBIE    That's hardly fair if he doesn't know the rules.  Plus, you said it yourself, they just moved in. GRIGG    Candy?  Schweets?  I have-- BOOL    [child's voice, off mike, accented]  I want to go home!  I hate it here!  Take me home!  [Tails off into gibberish with lots of Ls and Ss] GRIGG    [agitated] My child.  He wants to go back to our old home.  He is not used to this one.  I should go to him. SOUND    DOOR SHUTS TIMMY    [beat] I don't want any foreign candy anyway. FRAN    Bobbie? BOBBIE    No arguments.  Time to go home. MUSIC   SCENE 5.    BOBBIE'S ROOM  SOUND    TAP ON WINDOW BOBBIE    Hank? SOUND    FOOTSTEPS BOBBIE    Hank, this is hardly-- SOUND    WINDOW OPENS BOBBIE    Who's that?  You're too short for Hank. FRAN    [whispered] It's me. BOBBIE    [sarcastic] So it's The Whisperer? FRAN    Me!  Fran! BOBBIE    Fran?  By Crosby, this is way too late for you to be out playing Halloween jokes, even on a Saturday night.  You need to get home - your parents will be worried sick. FRAN    Dad's on patrol. BOBBIE    Oh, great, then he'll be the one to arrest you for something. FRAN    Did you listen to the radio at all tonight? BOBBIE    Only Corliss Archer.  Gee, she has some trouble with-- FRAN    Argh!  The news? BOBBIE    Why? FRAN    The kidnapping news! BOBBIE    Look, let me get my penny loafers on and I'll walk you home. FRAN    The son of a Greek raccoon was kidnapped today.  No, that's not right.  Raccoon, typhoon-- BOBBIE    Tycoon? FRAN    A rich guy.  He was kidnapped from their hotel room. BOBBIE    Was he a tycoon, or just a millionaire? FRAN    [whispered with emphasis]  IT DOESN'T MATTER.  We heard him, and we need to go rescue him. BOBBIE    We did what? FRAN    The kid at the haunted house.  Screaming "I want to go home"?  Does that maybe put some thought into that teased-up skull of yours? BOBBIE    They did sound awfully foreign, but I'm not sure if it's Greek. FRAN    Well it ain't Spanish or Chinese.  Or French.  What else is there? BOBBIE    Don't say "ain't" - it ain't in the dictionary. FRAN    Are you coming, or am I going by myself? BOBBIE    Why me? FRAN    Who else?  Timmy?  [dismissive noise]  Besides, you're the only one tall enough to see in the windows.  MUSIC   SCENE 6.    OUTSIDE, YARD SOUND    CREEPING THROUGH BUSHES BOBBIE    OK, this is silly.  And dirty.  I'm walking‑‑ FRAN    No, we have to crawl!  They'll see us! BOBBIE    No one's looking! FRAN    But the window's open, they'll hear us.  [panic] Shh!  Did you hear that? BOBBIE    [beat, listening, then dismissively] No. FRAN    [grumpy] Ok.  Walk to the window.  Get spotted.  See if I care. SOUND    WALKING CAREFULLY ON GRAVEL.  BUSHES RUSTLE BOBBIE    Fran? FRAN    [off, loud whisper] I'm coming.  Keep your hair on. BOBBIE    Don't worry-- Shh! SOUND    LOUD RUSTLE SOUND    [FROM INSIDE] CLICK, FOOTSTEPS NOTE:  BOOL AND GRIG ARE INSIDE, HEARD THROUGH A WINDOW, WHILE BOBBIE AND FRAN ARE OUTSIDE. EAVESDROPPING BOOL    I down wanna be here.  Go home. GRIGG    "don't", not "down", child.  You need talk some good words, living here. BOOL    No talk.  No stay.  Home! GRIGG    Home is soon enough.  Soon as requirement is received. FRAN    [coming on, loud whisper] What are they saying? BOBBIE    Shh! BOOL    [speaks foreign] BOBBIE    Is that Greek? FRAN    Oh, sure, I'm the expert. GRIGG    [angry] English.  Need to hear normal! BOBBIE    [muttered] Like your English is so good, mister. GRIGG    People must not apprehend you are strange. FRAN    Shh. GRIGG    Sleep, child.  Dream of home. BOBBIE    Now that's just mean. SOUND    DOOR CLOSES FRAN    See?  We've got to rescue him! BOBBIE    But what if--? FRAN    What if he turns up dead like little Charlie Lindburgh?  How you gonna feel then? BOBBIE    You need to stop reading those crime books. FRAN    Argh!  Fine.  Boost me up, and you can go.  I'll figure something out! BOBBIE    No.  I-- I'll help, but only if the kid wants to come.  That's where I draw the line - if he wants to stay, then we'll just...  let your dad know and leave it at that. FRAN    Fine, but who's gonna ask him?  Better do it now, or he might fall asleep. BOBBIE    [sigh, then voice raised a bit, calling quietly] Little boy?  BOOL    [off, gasp] BOBBIE    We're here to -- FRAN    [prompting, whisper] --to take you home. BOBBIE    We're here to take you home! BOOL    [off] Home? SOUND    SCUFFLE AS HE ROLLS OUT OF BED AND RUNS TO THE WINDOW FRAN    Yes, home!  Don't you wanna go home? BOBBIE    Your parents must be worried sick about you. BOOL    What is *lala* parents?  Want home! FRAN    Come on then, we'll get you out of there.  Bobbie, give him a boost. BOBBIE    [sigh] MUSIC   SCENE 7.    OUTSIDE SOUND    NIGHT NOISES, WALKING ON SIDEWALK BOOL    [squeak] SOUND    MILD SCUFFLE FRAN    Put it on!  They won't look twice at us if we got masks on! BOBBIE    It is a little late for-- FRAN    So they'll worry, but they won't-- GRIGG    [way off, unearthly shriek] FRAN    Eep!  That sounds like-- BOOL    [squeak] BOBBIE    What if he has a car? FRAN    Then we duck into the bushes - honestly, does every girl lose her brains when she grows into angora? BOBBIE    It's Acrilon. GRIGG    [slightly closer, shriek] FRAN    Run! BOOL    [squeak, ends in gasp] SOUND    RUNNING FOOTSTEPS MUSIC   SCENE 8.    OUTSIDE, A LITTLE LATER BOBBIE    [whispered] Do you hear anything? FRAN    [listens, then whispered]  Nope. BOOL    [whispered squeak] BOBBIE    [comforting whispers]  Shh. It'll be o-k, kid.  All we have to do is get you safe and then--  [sudden thought]  Say, Fran, what is the plan?  Where are we taking this poor kid? FRAN    [whispered, sarcastic] I thought we'd just lie here under this bush until morning and hope it doesn't rain. BOOL    [a bit too loud] What is *lala* rain? BOBBIE    Rain makes-- [whispered] Rain makes you wet.  We should take him to your father.  He'll know what to do to get him home. BOOL    [plaintive wail, way too loud] Home!  FRAN    [whispered] Great.  Now you've set him off again.  We can't go to pop, cause - being a cop and all - he might just deduce I sneaked out.   BOOL    Holme! Home! BOBBIE    [whispered] Well, you did. FRAN    [exasperated noise, then] Ssh! BOOL    Home-- [cut off in mid-word as a hand is clapped over his mouth, then a squeak] FRAN    [whispered] His parents must be worried sick about him--  we need to get him h-o-m-e. BOBBIE    [whispered] To Greece?  [sarcastic]  I'm pretty sure my folks' car doesn't have that much gas.  FRAN    [whispered] See?  There's still a little smarts under all that fluff!  They're stopping at a hotel downtown. BOBBIE    [whispered] Which one? FRAN    [whispered] The news didn't say - there can't be that many, can there? BOBBIE    [exasperated] Ohhhh! BOOL    [muffled squeak] GRIGG    [distant, shriek] FRAN    [whispered] What is that weird guy doing?  He's not exactly sneaky. BOBBIE    [whispered] Someone's going to-- SOUND    CAR PULLS UP, SINGLE WHOOP OF SIREN FRAN    [normal voice, resigned] --Call my dad.  BOBBIE    It's probably for the best - this bush isn't doing my Acrilon any good. FRAN    All right, but-- GRIGG    [closer, shriek] BOOL    [squeak] BOBBIE    It's all right little boy, we won't let the scary man take you away. MUSIC   SCENE 9.    INSIDE, HOUSE SOUND    RADIO PLAYS IN BACKGROUND FRED    No way!  How could they have found us? BOB    Stay cool.  It's Halloween, it could be anything. SOUND    WINDOW SASH GOES UP BOB    [worried] Stop it. SOUND    REVOLVER HAMMER CLICKS BACK FRED    But it's parked right outside!  I'm not going down for this!  Go check on the kid. MUSIC   SCENE 10.    OUTSIDE, STREET GRIGG    [shriek] OFFICER HOOPER    Ok, that's enough. GRIGG    [caught in mid-shriek] *Haysa?*  [deep breath]  What? OFFICER HOOPER    It's much too late, even on Halloween, to be running around screaming.  Time to go home and sleep it off, pal. GRIGG    Sleep, what?  I am missing child.  Must find.  Child will listen me.  [starts to shriek] OFFICER HOOPER    [cutting off the shriek] Hey!  I'm figuring you're new around here, so you may not understand how we do things in the U-S of A, but if your kid's gone missing, you need to let the authorities - that's me - know about it, so we - I - can help you. GRIGG    Help?  Too many wordsssss.  [wail] Bool! BOOL    [slightly off, squeak] OFFICER HOOPER    Eh? FRAN    [slightly off] SHH! OFFICER HOOPER    What the--? GRIGG    Bool! OFFICER HOOPER     Fran? SOUND    GUNSHOT BOBBIE    [Scream] BOOL    [squeak, quickly muffled] GRIGG    Bool! OFFICER HOOPER    Get down! FRAN    Bobbie, get the kid out of here! OFFICER HOOPER    That you, Barbara Chandler?  Don't you move a muscle! SOUND    GUNSHOT GRIGG    [voice no longer sounds remotely human] WHAT IS THAT NOISE? OFFICER HOOPER    Stay down, sir, and let me handle this. SOUND    QUICK GRAPPLE GRIGG    [intense] YOU ME TELL - IS WEAPON?  HURT MY CHILD? BOBBIE    Heavens to Bette Davis, Fran, it's the kid's real dad! FRAN    Phooey. BOOL    [long squeak] OFFICER HOOPER    [forced calm, but furious underneath] As long as they stay behind my car there, they will be fine, now let go of me and let me stop the idiot who's been shooting up my town. GRIGG    SHOOT ARE GUN ARE DANGER?  OFFICER HOOPER    That's my job.  You stay here, and when it's clear, you can go to your kid.  [raising his voice] Bobbie!  You get those children down behind the car, you hear?  BOBBIE    Yes, sir, Officer Hooper! OFFICER HOOPER    [calling] You're still in trouble.  [to Grigg] You. Stay. MUSIC   SCENE 11.    INSIDE, HOUSE SOUND    RADIO PLAYS UNDER BOB    You idiot!  They weren't here for us! FRED    They won't take me alive!  Federal pen?  Uh-uh! BOB    Fine.  You play at O-K Corral.  I'll be out of the line of fire. FRED    [cold, commanding] Don't. BOB    What?  You gonna shoot me, now? FRED    Bring the kid out here.  We can still do this. BOB    Yeah, we give him back, and they take us alive.  I like that - the being alive part. FRED    Get him! MUSIC   SCENE 12.    OUTSIDE HOUSE OFFICER HOOPER    Throw out your guns and come out with your hands up! FRED    [calling from inside] We've got the kid.  Walk away or we kill him. OFFICER HOOPER     [calling to off]  That's not going to happen.  Let the kid go and I'll put in a good word for you. FRED     [from inside] I've got all the words I need, copper! ARI    [from inside] ow! FRAN    That must be the real Greek tyfoon's son, OFFICE HOOPER    [warning] Fran!?  I told you to-- FRAN    Pop!  I'm going to be a policeman when I grow up, so I figure I should start learning. OFFICER HOOPER    No, you're not, and you shouldn't.  This isn't a game.  Get back over there-- SOUND    GUNSHOT BOTH    [react] FRAN    He hasta run out of bullets ... eventually. OFFICER HOOPER    And how many guns does he have? FRAN    Huh?  [shrug] I dunno. [realizing] Oh. OFFICER HOOPER    See?  Now, get back-- SOUND     GUNSHOT OFFICER HOOPER    [fading out] Oh, heck.  Stay right here.  On this spot, young lady. MUSIC   SCENE 13.    INSIDE, HOUSE, BUT HEARD FROM OUTSIDE SOUND    RADIO PLAYS UNDER BOB    [fading in] You've got the kid, you've got the gun.  Let me go. FRED    Like you say, I've got the kid and the gun - what do I need you around for, ya bum? BOB    Good.  [raising his voice] I'm coming out coppers!  I'm giving myself up!  SOUND     FOOTSTEPS, DOOR OPENS   SCENE 14.    OUTSIDE, SHIFT OF PERSPECTIVE, BUT NO ACTUAL SCENE BREAK BOB    Don't shoot! SOUND     BOB TAKES THREE MORE STEPS, THEN-- SOUND    GUNSHOT BOB    Argh! SOUND    BODY FALLS SOUND     DOOR SLAMS MOMENT OF SILENCE   FRAN    Is that guy ... dead? OFFICER HOOPER    Dammit, I can't even go check.  GRIGG    [incoherent, alien tongue] OFFICER HOOPER    Oh, jeez, not you too?  [speaking slow]  Go back.  Your child is safe.  Bobbie has him, over there. GRIGG    [deep breath, then equally slowly]  This you child? FRAN    I'm Fran.  I'm really really sorry about-- OFFICER HOOPER    Yes.  Much as I may want to deny it, she has my nose. FRAN    [not getting it]  Huh? GRIGG    Much words.  You child? FRAN    He don't speak much English, do he?  OFFICER HOOPER    [sigh] Yes.  Mine. BOOL    [squeak] SOUND    SKITTERING FOOTSTEPS SOUND    GUNSHOT BOOL    [Screamy squeak] SOUND    BODY DROP FRAN    [running off] Hey! Kid! OFFICER HOOPER    Fran!  No! SOUND    [after a moment]  SCUTTLING COMING CLOSER FRAN    [breathing hard] Here.  I think he's OK. BOOL    [whimpering] GRIGG    My child! OFFICER HOOPER    Fran, dammit! FRAN    What?  He coulda got shot! MUSIC   SCENE 15.    INSIDE, HOUSE SOUND    RADIO ON IN BACKGROUND FRED    Kid, you speak English? ARI    A little. FRED    You know I'm gonna shoot you if you don't do everything I say? ARI    Yes. FRED    Good.  MUSIC   SCENE 16.    OUTSIDE GRIGG    Your child is brave heart.  OFFICER HOOPER    That's one word for it. GRIGG    She bring safe my Bool. OFFICER HOOPER    Um, yeah.  Dammit.  I can't tell where that guy is. GRIGG    Some child is hurted there? FRAN    Stolen.  Like we did, except we were only trying to help. GRIGG    [decisive] I help bring child to home. OFFICER HOOPER    At least you're an adult, even if you can't understand English.  [talking loud again] We go in.  You go left - that way - I go right.  Get to wall, up against it, then to door. GRIGG    Ahhhh. OFFICER HOOPER    Does he understand? FRAN    I guess.  He's nodding. OFFICER HOOPER    You don't come with us. FRAN    But I-- OFFICER HOOPER    Give me your hand. FRAN    Are you giving me a gun? OFFICER HOOPER    [heavy sigh] SOUND    HANDCUFFS SLAP ON WRIST, THEN ON DOOR HANDLE FRAN    Hey! OFFICER HOOPER    Now you'll stay put.  [sigh] I'm leaving the key here, in case. SOUND    KEY PUT DOWN ON CAR OFFICER HOOPER    Out of reach.  [loud, to Grigg] We go. SOUND    RUNNING FEET, OFF IN TWO DIRECTIONS SOUND    AFTER THEY LEAVE, JINGLE OF STRUGGLING WITH HANDCUFFS FRAN    [grunting]  Uun uun.  Darn it.  SOUND    SCRABBLING ON THE CAR HOOD, TRYING TO STRETCH FRAN    Hey, Bool? BOOL    Bool! FRAN    Yeah, [talking slow] I'm Fran.  BOOL    Flan? FRAN    Good enough.  Can you hand me that?  BOOL    [Hmm noise] FRAN    [slowly again] Give to me? BOBBIE    [coming on]  You're still here!  Let's get going. SOUND    REACTION INCLUDING RATTLE OF THE HANDCUFFS FRAN     How'd you--? BOBBIE    I went around the block.  I'm no dummy. FRAN    Brilliant!  We should-- BOBBIE    You are not talking me into any more shenanigans. FRAN    [whispered] Bool, get the key!  [Up]  Huh?  No, of course not... I -- BOBBIE    Are you -- chained to the car? BOOL    Kaaaay? FRAN    [too bright] No!  Whatever gave you that idea?  [whispered]  Bool! BOBBIE    Oh-- SOUND    SMALL METAL SCRAPE BOBBIE    --so this isn't the key? FRAN    Oh -- Drat!  BOOL    [squeak] FRAN    Boo-ul! MUSIC   SCENE 17.    OUTSIDE, AROUND HOUSE SOUND    RUSTLE IN A BUSH OFFICER HOOPER    [muttered]  Ok, mister rat bastard kidnapper, let me get a look atcha. GRIGG    [off]  Go? OFFICER HOOPER    [muttered] Oh, good, you know one word. [up, calling very quietly]  Make a noise! GRIGG    [shriek] SOUND    [OFF] CLATTER INSIDE FRED    [from inside] What the hell--?  OFFICER HOOPER    Come out of there with your hands up! FRED    [from inside] What's that noise? GRIGG    [shriek] OFFICER HOOPER    [sudden idea] Uh, what noise?  I don't hear anything. FRED    [from inside] What do you mean--?  You didn't hear that-- GRIGG    [shriek] FRED    [from inside] --that "THAT"? OFFICER HOOPER    [very pleased] Nope.  Don't hear anything. They say some people are bothered more than others by [slight chuckle] haunted houses. FRED    [a bit disturbed] Haunted--? MUSIC   SCENE 18.    OUTSIDE AT CAR BOBBIE    If I unlock it, you have to come home. FRAN    [sounding almost teary]  But- but our dads are in there. BOBBIE    That's what your dad does.  It's his job. FRAN    But it's not Bool's dad's job. BOBBIE    Bool?  Is that your name? BOOL    [sounding mournful] Chob.  FRAN    See? He's upset too. BOBBIE    Is he?  Tell you what, I'll get you home and then we'll call for more police. FRAN    [sniffing]  But I was thinking... tsch.  ohhhh. SOUND    THREE METAL TAPS - key on car BOBBIE    [thinking...]  What? FRAN    [sounding really down] Nothing.  Unlock me and we'll go home - [offhanded] even if we maybe COULD help. BOBBIE    Right. FRAN    Even if maybe our dads end up shot.  [long sniff] BOOL    [squeaky sniff] SOUND    UNLOCKING HANDCUFF BOBBIE    Come on. MUSIC   SCENE 19.    INSIDE, HOUSE SOUND    SHUFFLING FEET AS FRED PACES NERVOUSLY, DRAGGING ARI BACK AND FORTH WITH HIM SOUND    RADIO IN BACKGROUND FRED    [to self] Haunted?  Of course.  That explains so much. ARI    Maybe there is ghosts? FRED    That's what haunted means, ain't it?  And it's Halloween. OFFICER HOOPER    [from outside]  It's late, pal.  Almost the witching hour.  Let's get this sorted out. FRED    Witching--?  OFFICER HOOPER    [from outside]  You know, midnight.  Let's settle this and get that kid home safe and sound. FRED    You're going to tell me I can still get out of this, huh?  What about Bob out there? OFFICER HOOPER    Oh, your friend here? FRED    Friend.  [snort]  yeah. OFFICER HOOPER    Hmm.  Killing him on the doorway of house like that might a been a bad move. FRED    Whadda you mean?  Oh! GRIGG    [long, drawn-out shriek] FRED    Oh!! SOUND    RUSTY CREAK OF DISTANT DOOR, INSIDE FRED    What the heck? ARI    [scared]  Oh no! FRED    Shut up, kid.  I'm trying to listen, you hear me? ARI    [gasp and sniff- trying to stay quiet] FRED    [trying to convince himself] It's those cops.  They're doing this - [up, calling] You're doing this, aintcha, copper? OFFICER HOOPER    Doing what? FRED    [clinging to control] Making the damn noises! OFFICER HOOPER    [pleased with himself] What noises? MUSIC   SCENE 20.    INSIDE, HOUSE, UPSTAIRS [NOTE, THEY WHISPER THROUGHOUT SCENE] SOUND    CREAKING MOVEMENT BOBBIE    [whispered] Frannie, if any of us end up dead, it is entirely your fault.  That door was so loud. FRAN    On purpose.  C'mon, the stairs are over here. BOBBIE    How do you know?  This house-- FRAN    Sleepover two years ago, when Jennie and Sam lived here. BOBBIE    Your father is going to kill me. FRAN    We'll be upstairs - well out of the line of fire.  Now c'mon. BOOL    'mon. FRAN    See, Bool agrees with me. BOBBIE    Yeah.  Like a parrot.  [sigh] SOUND    TIPTOEING FOOTSTEPS MUSIC   SCENE 21.    INSIDE, HOUSE, DOWNSTAIRS SOUND    RADIO MUTTERS IN BACKGROUND FRED    [muttering]  They've probably got the back door covered... ARI    [small voice] You should let me go.  FRED    [about to hit him] Ahh!  SOUND    CREAKING FOOTSTEPS SOUND IN WALL AND CEILING FRED    Shh!  Hell!  What's that? ARI    [scary whisper] Evil spirits.  FRED    [gulp] Really? ARI    Maybe it is your dead friend.  He is very angry, I think. FRED    [weak] Shut up. SOUND    THEIR SCUFFLING FOOTSTEPS FRED    We'll just - Let's go check it out, eh?  I bet even ghosts don't like getting shot. MUSIC   SCENE 22.    INSIDE, HOUSE, UPSTAIRS [NOTE:  STILL WHISPERING] FRAN    OK, Bool, you see this vent? BOOL    See. BOBBIE    Great, now he's Spanish.  FRAN    Sh.  Bool, lean in and make a scary noise, like this...  [she does, and the noise echoes through the vents] BOOL    [like a laugh] Ah!  [leans in, mimics her noise, but it ends in his standard squeak - all echoey] BOBBIE    Did we ever figure out where Bool and his dad come from? FRAN    This isn't the time.  C'mon.  Now, Bobbie,  you creak this door - not too often, just from time to time.  Got it? MUSIC   SCENE 23.    OUTSIDE NEAR FRONT DOOR OFFICER HOOPER    OK, fella, time to come out.  [a beat]  Are  you in there?  [beat]  Oh, darn it all to--, they're gone.  Come on - [slow] help me break in the door. GRIGG    [yes] *Heh*. MUSIC   SCENE 24.    INSIDE, HOUSE, UPSTAIRS FRAN    I'll be right across the hall - now start. SOUND    DOOR OPENS FRAN    Eep! BOBBIE     Oh, no! BOOL     [squeak, which echoes] FRED    Ghosts, eh.  Looks like I got me a bunch more bargaining chips.  All of you move out here in the hall, real slow.  [snarls] Get over there-- ARI    [gasp] SOUND    THUD AS HE HITS THE WALL FRED    Keep your hands where I can see 'em! FRAN    [sarcastic] Of course, I might just have a gun. SOUND    SMACK FRED    Keep your mouth shut! FRAN    [gasps in real pain] BOOL    [mimics her gasp] FRED    You, too! BOOL    Flan! [squeaky growl]  Lalalala! FRED    What the hell's wrong with that kid? BOOL    [growl builds] FRED    [starting to get freaked out] Stop it.  What the hell? BOBBIE    Fran, is Bool glowing? FRAN    [sniff, then uncertain] Um, I think so. BOOL    [shriek which is a childish echo of Grigg's] FRED    [scream of terror] SOUND    GUNSHOT BOBBIE, BOOL, FRAN, ARI - scream, gasp, etc. SOUND    POUNDING FEET COMING UP THE STAIRS GRIGG    [full-on shriek, deeper and very alien] OFFICER HOOPER    Holy cow!  What the--? FRED    The light!   No!  [drawn out scream, which fades into a weird little popping noise] BOBBIE    I guess we--[gasp] might know--[gasp] where they came from, now. OFFICER HOOPER    [suspicious] Where'd he go? GRIGG    I made him nothing.  He try my child hurt.  Your child also. OFFICER HOOPER    Yeah, I, uh, noticed--  FRAN    [excited] Are you guys Martians? OFFICER HOOPER    [exasperated] --but she's clearly fine. GRIGG    I know not Marchan. BOOL    [Part muffled, satisfied] Flan! FRAN    [just as pleased]  Bool! BOBBIE    I don't know what to tell you, Mister - officer, I mean - Hooper.  OFFICER HOOPER    Don't worry, I blame my daughter.  [Back to Grigg]  So we don't have to worry about him coming back? GRIGG    Nothing.  No colme back. OFFICER HOOPER    And what exactly - well - are you? ARI    They saved us, is that not enough? FRAN    Yeah.  They're "good people," as mom would say. GRIGG    No concern, Hooper man.  We no stay now, you see us be do that.  We find more - uh - new home. BOOL    Home?  No!  [plaintive] Flan! GRIGG    [softly] No, Bool.  Go. OFFICER HOOPER    Tell me one thing, Grigg.  You planning to invade? GRIGG    *Haysa*? FRAN    He means are you gonna bring a bunch of people here and try and take over the planet - like in the movies? GRIGG    We hide - no one come with.  Bad place come away.  Alone. FRAN    There! BOBBIE    Are you thinking--? OFFICER HOOPER    [considering] I'm thinking I don't want to try writing this up.  Much easier if we just didn't see anything.  The one guy shot the other, then when he saw it was hopeless, he skedaddled. BOBBIE    But--  what--? FRAN    I didn't see anything.  You, Ari? ARI    No.  I was much too frightened.  He threw me against a wall and then ran off before my head cleared. FRAN    See, Bobbie? BOOL    Bah-bee? BOBBIE    That's kinda cute.  Good thing I-- I didn't see anything else.  Besides, anyone who would do whatever it takes to protect their kid - well, they can't be too bad. OFFICER HOOPER    You're still not babysitting for Fran ever again. BOBBIE    [truly relieved] Oh!  Thank you! FRAN    Hey! MUSIC, CLOSING OLIVIA    Now that you know how to find us, don't be a stranger - we have enough of those already...

Working Capital The Real Estate Podcast
Real Estate Financing, Development and Student Housing, with Andrew Drexler | EP76

Working Capital The Real Estate Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 27, 2021 46:31


Andrew Drexler has been a Part of the First National Financial Commercial Team for over 15 years, and has Originated more than $4 billion in Commercial Financing. In 2020 alone, his team funded over $1 billion in Commercial Mortgages, of which $822 million represented transactions in Ontario and $236 million Represented Transactions in Quebec In this episode we talked about: Andrew's Bio & Background The Real Estate Market Liquidity Debt Markets and Financing of Projects The Retail Real Estate Outlook Remote VS Onsite Work Real Estate Risks and Opportunities Underwriting Apartment Buildings Condo Development The Student Rental Market Canadian and US Real Estate Mentorship, Resources and Lessons Learned Useful links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewdrexler/?originalSubdomain=ca https://www.firstnational.ca/contact-us Transcription: Jesse (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name is Jesper galley. And on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time, or at least an in gentlemen, my name Jessica galley, and you're listening to working capital the real estate podcast. Our special guest today is Andrew Drexler. Andrew has been part of the first national financial commercial team for over 20 years.   Now, for those of you that don't know first national is one of Canada's largest non-bank mortgage lenders offering both commercial mortgages and resident residential mortgage solutions. And correct me if I'm wrong, Andrew, I believe you said that we're over 10 billion in, in mortgage originations.   Andrew (50s): It's going to be pretty close to 10 billion for this year. Yes, we're on the commercial side. It's going to be a very exciting year.   Jesse (56s): Well, first of all, thank you so much for coming on. It's it's great that you're being generous with your time. How you doing today?   Andrew (1m 2s): My pleasure. Good. Thank you. It's a beautiful fall day in Toronto right now. I love fall. It's my favorite season. So it's a beautiful day   Jesse (1m 9s): Transience of that fall season. We get it for such a small amount of time. That makes it so good. Well, it is a, it is false. Yeah, no, absolutely. I appreciate that. It is fall. It's a leaves home opener today. So at least versus Canadians for the hockey fans out there. What we do with, with guests that we have on first and foremost, Andrews, we like listeners to get a little bit of a background into, you know, how you got into the, the real estate space, maybe a little bit of, of your background and how you ended up where you are today.   Andrew (1m 44s): Sure. So, you know, I first got introduced to real estate actually, when I came as a 14 year old immigrant to Canada for Romania, with my family. And it was the first time it occurred to me that you have to pay rent to live somewhere. And I thought that was quite interesting. So I guess I went to school at the university of Toronto and upon graduating, I was very fortunate to meet more the co-founder of first national and, you know, he's a legendary figure in our industry.   He's been a great mentor for me now for 20 years. And so early on in my career Morty and I were looking after one of our largest clients from Israel who came into Canada and bought a lot of real estate in a very short period of time. And so early on, I was exposed to all the different asset classes and because they were short-staffed here, we did a lot for them, not just the financing, but a lot of the acquisition work and due diligence work, you know, and that gave me a really good understanding of both the equity and the debt side. So it's been, it's been a really amazing ride really for the last 20 years, we've worked on some really exciting deals, mixed use deals, construction loans, and pretty much every asset class.   So it's been, it's been quite an interesting last 20 years. We've seen a lot for sure. And you know, I'm excited about where the Canadian industry is. I mean, there, we see a lot of changes, but we also have some challenges going forward. So I think overall though, the industry, the Canadian real estate industry is in a pretty good space   Jesse (3m 12s): For sure. And in terms of coming out of the university of Toronto going, you know, meeting, meeting the, you know, the head of first national, was that your first path into real estate or was there, was there other companies that you work for prior to, to first national?   Andrew (3m 26s): No, that was my first. That was my first job out of university. It was, I was, I was quite lucky. Actually. I started a business lab in university, which led me to meet somebody who then introduced me to the Maury and went, you know, it, this is how the opportunity came about. And it's been, it's been a great opportunity that I really appreciated, you know, first actually has been just such a gold standard in the mortgage industry, Steven Smith and Moya Taz. And they've done a great job of being at the forefront of innovation. And, you know, like you said earlier, I mean, we're going to be close to $10 billion of new mortgages originated this year on the commercial side, the single family side is, is a leader in its space as well.   So we get a really good look at what's going on in the industry, you know, both from the commercial side and the, the, the, I guess the single family side and just the strength and the health of the overall industry. From that perspective,   Jesse (4m 18s): I'm curious to ask, I mean, it's not often you have a seasoned vet. That's been with a company like first national from inception in terms of the, the background that you've seen over the years, first National's evolution to, to what the different places that they lend within the capital stack. How has that evolved over your career there?   Andrew (4m 36s): So we used to be predominantly an apartment lender on the I'm only going to speak from the commercial side cause that's where, where I work, but we are mostly an apartment lender and now we've become, you know, we do retail, we do office, we do self storage, we do student housing and retirement. We've really become a very balanced lender. This is a time. I mean, there's definitely a lot of liquidity in the markets, both for on the equity side and on the debt side, it's a great time to be a borer. If you have existing assets, it's a very difficult time to be a developer, looking for land, looking for new projects, you know, it's become tougher and tougher to make money in real estate, both buying and developing.   But if you do have an existing portfolio, it's a very good time and there's so much liquidity. I don't think I've ever seen this much liquidity in our market, again, both from the, the equity and the debt side.   Jesse (5m 28s): So how has the last year, well, almost two years now, this environment that we've, we find ourselves in, how has that, if, if it has at all changed the way that you look at the debt markets, the way that you look at financing of projects, you know, anything different philosophies changed over the, over the last 18 to 24 months?   Andrew (5m 51s): You know, it's a good question. So I think we've been surprised at how certain asset classes have held up. I think at, you know, we were worried about apartment owners and, and, you know, we were wondering whether people are going to lose their jobs and not be able to pay their rents. And the apartment sector has held up incredibly well. You know, I mean, the government's done their job to, to support people and then people to their credit have done a great job of maintaining their rent payments and not defaulting there. I think, you know, rebel is had its challenges.   You know, obviously people shop differently. Now. I think people are spending less, I think on the office side it's yet to be determined, right? I mean, I, I'm a big believer in the return of the downtowns. I think, you know, we've seen apartment vacancies in the downtown core across Canada go from 0% to 15% almost overnight. I think we're starting to see the return now and nobody's really back at work, but very small people are, people are back in the office. I think that we will go back fairly quickly. I'm so bullish on, on the Canadian major cities.   I mean, I just think when I look around the world, I, I wouldn't rather be, I wouldn't be anywhere else really than, than here. So I think there's a big draw from an immigration perspective, economic perspective, our, our political system is good. Are healthcare systems good or universities are good. So I think, you know, Canada will continue to be a strong point of, of, of entry, you know, industrial of course has been booming. And so that's, we all know that everybody's looking for, for industrial space and, and rents and values and land and cap rates.   Everything is it's at an all time high cap rates at an all time low, of course. So the Canadian market is held up really well. I, I would say my biggest worry is really more around the retail side. I think the, the office side will rebound and I think the office sector for the most part is owned by very large institutional players that have a deep pockets. I think on the retail side, I'm more concerned about, you know, when you lose the mom and pop tenants and when you see some of the anchors that are maybe downsized or not quite taken up as much space, I'm not sure that there's a long list of replacement tenants that are waiting in the wings.   You know, in previous years or decades, there's always somebody new coming out of the U S there's always somebody new coming out of Europe. We just don't seem that anymore. And I'm just worried that that rents probably in the long-term are going to be flat lower than where they are today. And that's assuming the occupancy stays at the level that it's at, but overall the market has been good. I think you certainly put more emphasis now on the strength of the bore and their cashflow abilities. You know, it used to be that somebody got, they had a good net worth, they're good to go, but now it's, you know, they own a bunch of different plazas and they're not quite getting their full, you know, a hundred percent of rent that they used to collect.   So can they still support the loan or what happens when their loans roll over? And they start all of a sudden going to a higher interest rate, you know, which is the next point, which is, you know, I do think unfortunately we're in for a, a period of rising interest rates. I do think that everywhere you look, you know, it screams inflation, and eventually that's going to make its way into the interest rate environment. You know, there's talk about one a day data being, being slowed down or reduced at all levels and malt and other, you know, many countries.   And I think that that ultimately will put pressure on bond yields to move up, which will result in higher interest rates are interest rates can lead to higher cap rates, you know, maybe a reduction in values. And again, the cash flow is, is a big concern. So we're definitely, stress-testing our borders a little bit more, and we're looking very closely at the ability of the property as well to, to support their, that they plan on taking   Jesse (9m 32s): Yeah, in terms of a lot there. But for, for the particular asset class, I'm curious with retail, as you know, we've seen, I think whether in the states, whether it's 26 or 27 square feet per person per capita, and we're somewhere 16 and then, you know, European countries, sub 10. So all that to say that we, you know, a lot of real estate or retail, I think that even prior to COVID, we, we knew it was overbuilt, but now really getting granular. And the ones that at least we see is that the grocery anchored or the good anchor tenant malls or areas experiential areas I think are going to be positive.   But when it comes to you looking at retail as an asset class, are you looking, you know, with much more emphasis on the credit worthiness of, of the tenants and what that tenant profile looks like?   Andrew (10m 21s): Yeah. I think it's, it's the long-term stability of that tenant and trying to anticipate what their long-term needs are going to be. So, you know, when I look at a Canadian tire, when I look at a Walmart, Walmart, which used to be obviously the gold standard, and you have one of those in your Plaza and don't even have to worry about the rest of the tenant roster. I think you, you try to say now, well, where would they be in five years? Do they still need that kind of footprint? Is there a chance that, you know, we're competing with their own sites and they go somewhere else because they need more or less, you know?   And then when you look at the, the, the rest of the tenants and you look at their rents and you even look at the renewal rates, like, are they really going to be getting those rents? You know, considering that, you know, they spend more on cleaning, they spend more on staff, they're doing a little bit less business than they used to. You know, certainly if you go into the mall and all of a sudden you're allowing two people per store, four people per store, you know, what does that do to their bottom line? It's got to impacted, right? And then you add in, again, the extra cleaning Dexter wages, certainly the profit is going to be decreasing.   You start thinking about supply chain issues, you know, where they're getting their, their items that they're selling their merchandise. Does that cost them more? Are they still able to get it on time again, that affects their profit, which ultimately for them to stay afloat, do you need to come back to your landlord and say, Hey, I'm sorry, guys. I want to stay open, but I need to pay a little bit less. So I think it's more about not just happens right now, but it's really what happens two to five years from now. That's really important from a tenant by tenant perspective.   Jesse (11m 56s): Yeah. That makes sense. In moving over onto that office side, do you, do you, well, I'll say this, do you subscribe to the, this, this idea? I think I'm, I'm partial to, I'm also, you know, obviously biased in, in the Toronto downtown market, but the idea that I think that 24 hour cities are going to come back, whether it's the new Yorks, the Las Vancouver, Toronto, I think suburban offices have held up decently. I think it's, it's a lot of the mid tier, you know, the, the class B class C in mid markets that I think are going to be the questionable questionable office is the ones that aren't connected to the suburbs through transportation.   Like you just, you know, having a car and the ones that aren't downtown connected via all the transit that we have here. What are your thoughts on that?   Andrew (12m 43s): You know, for me, the question is about when people are going to feel comfortable being on public transit, right? So I'm a huge believer in that downtown. I'm a huge believer in, in, you know, not just the hybrid model, but a return to work model, because I truly think people need to be around others to brainstorm, to be more creative, to be more productive. I know we've all been very productive for the last year and a half, but the reality is everything's been shut down. You've had nothing to do blood work, you know, but now as things open up, you know, it's easy to, to, you know, not feel as, you know, energetic or enthusiastic plus you've been, you've been locked up at home for awhile.   You know, when you come into the office, is it just a certain level of energy that, that kicks in, right. And I think for the young people, not that, that I'm so old, but for the young people, you really need to be around to hear what's going on, to learn about deals, to learn about what's going on in the market. You just don't get that from the home. And so I do think the office market will come back strongly in the downtowns across Canada. I just, for me, the question is more, is this six months? Is it a year, is a year and a half. And I think the answer depends on when will people feel comfortable being on transit.   Cause you know, everybody thinks they're going to drive into work. I tell you I live 15 minutes away and it takes me 45 minutes now to drive in with 5% of the people being downtown. And so once everybody's back to work, it's just no chance I'm doing a drive in and out of downtown. So, but I I'm a such a believer in the return of the downtowns and, and it goes the same for buildings, right? I mean, people are not going to be working, living in the suburbs for the rest of their lives. You know, if you have family, that's a different story, but the young people, again, who may be moved home or, or bought a place for our way that I just think they'll, they'll want to come back into the downtown, you know, and once their friends are back and the energy's back, you want to be in and around the downtown.   And you know, that will signify the return of that 24 hour city that you're talking about.   Jesse (14m 38s): Yeah. I think that's born out by most of our experience that we've had with our office. We've, we've opened in October, so not too long ago, officially on, on kind of a rotational basis. And there's definitely that feeling that vibe, you know, just kind of interoffice sports are kind of slowly coming back. And I really felt during COVID or that at least the beginning, I really felt for the individuals that were associates and analysts just coming into our industry only, you know, the time where you should be making the most connections speaking with the most people, they were kind of forced to be at home during that time.   Andrew (15m 12s): Yeah. It's very difficult that you just can't learn the same way when you're at home. You know, you try, I mean, I have a team of analysts and you know, we try to get them on calls. You're calling your client, you get them on, but sometimes you don't get the client, you hang up, they call you back. You can't quite just say, hang on, let me put my house on line. And these are learning opportunities where you just around people and you learn, I mean, I've learned so much by, you know, the, the predecessors or the people that are still our company that had been there before me just listening to them. You know, that's how you learn how to talk to clients. You learn what to say, what not to say, you know, you learn about stuff that's going on in the market.   I mean, these are really valuable things that I really hope that the young people see the value in that. And they forget that it's been easy to work in your jogging pants and, you know, get a workout in, in the middle of the day. But hopefully you'll you realize that the importance of, of being in the office?   Jesse (15m 59s): Yeah. I think the interface, zoom, whatever it is, teams it's, they've got, they've done well, but there's definitely those subtleties. I, in terms of, you know, you mentioned interest rates, you know, I think it kind of went under reported with the fed kind of decoupling their, their target inflation. I'm I'm assuming I, I should be, I should be more up on this for the Canadian side of things, but I assume that we will follow something similar to what what's going on in the states right now you mentioned inflation and, and as a result of eventual, upward pressure on interest rates, how do you view, how do you analyze that?   How do you approach that when from a, from a lending point of view?   Andrew (16m 39s): So I think the challenges with the construction projects, you know, where you have, you're trying to underwrite the future value of the asset upon completion. And you're trying to peg a certain interest rate, a certain ceiling rates that you cannot exceed. So you're structuring your construction financing based on the end value. When you have a certain rate that you can't, when you convert to the term that you cannot exceed. And so, you know, the challenge with, with apartment construction is that the projects take so much longer than they used to.   You know, you start off with approval is taking years now, too. So the pre-development takes a lot longer. The construction is taking longer and you know, whether it's COVID related, whether it's supply global supply chain, disruptions related, you know, everything is taking longer. And so, you know, now you're looking at a project that could be five, six years before you get to completion. So we're essentially trying to peg where the interest rates are going to be in five or six years, because that's what we've tied our construction loan to. So I think that's, to me where I have the biggest concerns, we mitigate that by saying, you know, we're really just focusing on large bores that have liquid assets and very good cash flow in their portfolio.   But a lot of these apartment projects are getting to be very significant. I mean, we're doing projects that are, you know, $200 million upwards of $200 million. That's a lot of exposure. You know, you have a, a 50% basis point 50 basis point rise in interest rates, which could impact your cap rate by 25 basis points. You know, that's a lot of, that's a, that's a big value of sling. And I think if you try to say, look, you know, we're going to increase the interest rate in our underwriting by 50 basis points per year. Or if you're trying to Peggy at five years out, that's two and a half percent.   There's no chance that anything today is going to cover. So it's, it's a bit of a balance, right? But I think the biggest challenges in the multifamily sector, I think, you know, industrial, not so much office, but industrial and retail, usually construction is a lot shorter. And usually you have your leases done right at the beginning. So you don't even have to worry about leasing risk at the end. So it's merely just pegging your construction risk and then how quickly you can turn out the debt. But I think apartments though, you do have some, some serious interest rate.   Jesse (18m 53s): Yeah. At least with industrial construction too. I mean, it's a slab of concrete at, at a certain point. And the, the, the construction itself is simpler. I'm curious, Andrew, when it comes to the underwriting of apartment buildings, for those that don't know that the Canadian market is a bit unique, especially in comparison to the states. A lot of our apartments stock is older stock in terms of the actual, when, you know, when you hear that there's a class, a class apartments in whether, you know, it's in Miami or Boston, we really started building a class not very long ago.   So the projects that, that you would finance or that you would look at geographically, where do you find them clustering and what type of, what type of assets in the apartments fear are you financing? Are you lending on?   Andrew (19m 40s): So there it's our asset class that, that transacts the most. So there is a lot of capital chasing apartments. So the existing portfolios are being bought the existing older buildings. There there's a lot of demand for them. There are a lot of international players that are a lot of Canadian REITs. There are a lot of wealthy families and investors that are still looking to acquire multi reds in Canada. And so that's good because you know where your debt is today, and it's been very cheap.   And so you can lock into a 10 year rate and still get some pretty attractive returns. We send a lot of new rental development over the past five years. And the reason for that is because, you know, it used to be that interest rates were high and rents were low, right? We had rent control for many years and there was no incentive to build apartment buildings. And like you said, the apartment stock in our country is very old and we hadn't had new construction for a very long time. And so the shift happened when interest rates started going lower and lower to the point where we were at historically low levels, the financing environment became a lot more conducive to new development.   And a key part for me was that the tenant profile had changed. So tenants right now, whether you're dealing with retirees cashing in, on their home equity, young professionals that either can't afford or don't want to buy a house right now, or international students, these are very sophisticated pennants that have said, you know, I want a nice building. I want a superior HVAC system. I want amenities like rooftop, patios, and barbecue areas where we can entertain friends. I want gyms in our building. And so this level of demand from the tenants has driven the, the, the, the increase in supply of new apartment buildings.   Now, not all new apartments have been luxury. You know, we've built, you know, call it no frills, new apartment buildings as well. You know, new apartment buildings that maybe don't have the same level of amenities. And we've built those, not just in the major cities, on the major transit nodes, but on the outskirts as well. And so those have been really well received. So I think to your point, our rental stock is very old. And anything new that has been brought into the market has been received very well, because there are lots of people that have the ability to pay more for their rent and want to live in nice places.   And, you know, frankly, the units have gotten smaller, but that's okay because you live in a brand new, beautiful building. And again, you have these great amenities and you have people over, they're not going to be in your, an apartment. They're going to be in the, in the common areas. And so we've seen a lot of new developments in, in that sector. The challenge now is will that continue going forward? And I think, you know, the demand side is definitely there. I think the challenge is in those risks that we're talking about, namely interest rate risks, the fact that the projects have taken longer, they're becoming bigger.   And with the construction costs today, escalating rapidly, you know, the returns are now getting to that point where they don't really make sense. And so this all leads to this affordability crisis that we have in Canada, which is both the home ownership, we're home on affordability issue and the lack of affordability on the rental side. And the challenge is that people don't understand that the issue is a supply issue. It's not a matter of cap, the rents, you can increase rents anymore, or you can't get rid of and evictions.   It's not that the issue is that we don't have enough supply and pre COVID. We were pretty close to 0% vacancy rate across the country. Most cities we're going to get there again, as soon as immigration opens up, as soon as the international students are coming back, as soon as people come back into downtowns to the office, that vacancy rate goes back to zero. And yet here we are with facing a, an, an affordability issue again. And so we need to find a way to solve that.   Jesse (23m 28s): Yeah, I think that is kind of the knee, knee jerk reaction. It's it's these symptoms. I think of the problem that you, you go to like rent evictions or these, these type of things where it's it's, the constraint is supply. And I I'd like to get your thoughts just on the, the history, at least of our market. A lot of it has been this shadow market of condo development, being a proxy or a replacement for what should be purpose-built apartment buildings, people that are fully intending on, on renting. Is that, is that dynamic, do you think that's still happening and will happen between the two asset classes and maybe just a follow-up to that?   If so, is that because of the, the ability to build condos is regulatorily easier than, than a purpose-built right now,   Andrew (24m 18s): I'd say that's a complicated question. So I think traditionally, it was easier to do condos because, you know, you would pre-sell, you would have a certain profit built in there and then you'd go get your financing. And then you start construction. You also had a very level of construction industry where costs were an escalating, like they are today. And your, your development timeframe was a lot shorter than it is today. So it was fairly cookie cutter in that once you, the risk was in picking a site in and getting the pre-sales done, once you did your pre-sales and you locked in your profit, then it was just a matter of building it out.   And it was fairly straightforward. The challenge now on the condo side is that, you know, as a lender, I don't even know if I want our borders to pre-sale or to pre-sell the full, you know, 75 or 80% of the building to cover a loan because frankly cost escalations are so high that it's going to eat them through their profit pretty quickly. And then I don't really want them losing their motivation halfway through the project where we funded half. And now all of a sudden there's no profit left. So it's, it's very challenging as a lender to decide, you know, what do you want, do you want pre-sales or not?   Having said that the price is the sale price is seemed to continue to escalate and costs are not slowing down. And, but the, the sales side is not slowing down either. So you're seeing sale prices per square foot that are getting higher and higher in Toronto. So condo projects right now still make sense. The challenge is that the rental side no longer makes sense. And so we need to find a way to continue to enhance, you know, entice, I guess, developers to build the, you know, rental product because we need it.   But I think the difference between the two, I mean, personally, I would rather be in a, in a purpose still rent the building. You've got professional management, you've got a building full of renters that are going to be there. Long-term with the condos, there's constant turnover. People aren't as careful with the buildings, you know, it's just not the same crowd, but having said that they both been successful. And so that tells you that there's a lot of demand for whether it's condos or whether it's new rentals. The idea is that people want to live in newer, nicer buildings with nicer amenities.   And so right now the condo market seems to be really strong. Again, the rental market seems to be picking up as well again. And I think longterm they're both going to continue to be successful. The challenge is, will there be enough enticement to the developers to build rental, or are people all just going to, to condos now and be selling that because you can still make it work from a condo perspective.   Jesse (26m 49s): And as, as asset value is safer, multifamily increase and, and net operating income also continues to increase. Where do we hit that point of like that unaffordable point? And I guess more importantly from a policy perspective, w what do we do to, to ameliorate that aspect of, of what looks like the direction our market's going in?   Andrew (27m 12s): So I think the challenge is, so right now you have a federal government that has a very strong immigration platform, which is great for the economy, which is great for housing. It's really good all around. I mean, you know, as a, as a fellow immigrant, I know that people come here because they want a better life, right? So they come and they want to work hard and they want to, you know, own something, their house or a business. And so it adds a lot of value to the economy. So you want to continue to encourage that. So the federal government has done that. They're also offering financing through groups like CMAT, you know, to encourage development, the provinces are doing their part because they're giving grants at different levels.   And the municipalities are trying as well. They're, they're waiving development charges for affordable units. They're waiving taxes. The problem is that they're operating independently. And as a group, they need to come together to, to sacrifice a little bit more to say, what is it that we can each give up in order to balance the equation that the developers have? Because right now, what the government is offering is not enough to support for the development. I mean, these developers are building two, three, 4% cap rates.   And again, with the longer timeframe, and you were saying five, six years, by the time you're fully leased, that's a lot of time to wait and a lot of risks from an interest rate perspective and cap rate perspective and ultimately valuation perspective. So, you know, if it's barely interesting right now for developer to build, and they're only doing two or three, 4% cap rate, and that's assuming that everything pans out, you're just going to lose them, right? And so what can we do? We need to come together. We need to shorten from a municipal perspective, we need the shorter shorten approval times, you know, approve or reject an application within six months.   It can take two years, you know, maybe entice them, give them more density, but they have to build a certain amount affordable. But then you waive development charges on the full building, not just on the units that are affordable. Maybe you wave Realty taxes on the whole building, not just on the affordable units. These are things that, that have to happen in order for us to, to stimulate development. I mean, ultimately, look, if you're a developer, you have two sides of the equation, right? You have the development side, which right now costs are through the roof, and you need to reduce that.   And so from a government perspective, you can only help with agency self-assessment tax, where you can help out by waving or reducing development charges, or by, by maybe subsidizing land. But then once it's built on the operational side, if you're trying to put a cap on the rent that they can charge, and you're trying to entice them to reduce the rent to an affordable level, you have certain expense line items that can be adjusted. You can't adjust, you can't adjust insurance, which is going through the roof as well. You can't adjust wages.   I mean, again, huge inflationary pressures on wages and the staff. And so the only thing you can do is you can adjust Realty taxes, which is the municipality. So this is my point. Like the, you have to look at both sides, the development costs and the operational side, and, and is at all levels of government, we have to come together and we have to piece it to then entice these developers to provide more housing, which then in turn will, will alleviate your, your housing problem.   Jesse (30m 28s): Yeah, that's interesting because even on the office side, I think they've phased most of them out, but the tiger grants that we have where we're the tax incremental aspects of, of basically assisting whether it was developers or large tendencies with, with the tax piece, it's like, that's only one piece of the equation. And it's funny, we had, we had John Love on the program and other, you know, big name in Canadian commercial real estate, who said the same thing. It was a coordination problem with, with the different provinces that, you know, people need to be talking collectively and, and the federal government and the provinces need to need to work at this project.   Not, not unilaterally, but together. I'm curious if you want to pivot to an asset class. That was how I got started into, into the industry. And I know it's something that I wanted to chat with you about on the student residence, a student rental market in general, I think at the beginning of COVID just like you were mentioning before with our thoughts that apartments might be, you know, might be in trouble. And then it turns out they did pretty well compared to the comparatively. My first thought was when this happened, the first few months was that student rentals were going to get hit the hardest, just in, just in virtue of the nature of the pandemic.   How, how has the student rental market been, what, what has been the experience that you've seen over the last year or two?   Andrew (31m 47s): You know, I think as an asset class, they struggled a little bit and, and frankly, you know, they did because all of a sudden they had no students, right. And, and in the privately owned residences, you know, people stayed in, they weren't sure if they should go home or not. I think in the ones that were either owned by a university or managed by a university, you know, they allowed people to leave and basically let them walk out of their leases. But that's, to me was a shorter blimp. I mean, I absolutely love this asset class. I think it's got the most upside in, in Canadian real estate, you know, student housing to me, you know, when you think of it back when you're younger than me, but when we used to go to school, it was cinder blocks.   It was ugly buildings. It was, you know, poor locations, you know, the, the knock on it was you had eight month leases and you had kids that would just trash the place, right. I mean, that is completely gone. Now, you know, we do so much student housing at first Nash. Then I tell you, these buildings are unbelievable. I mean, you'll have, first of all, the wifi, capacity's huge. And it's the number one, you know, by far most important element in, in the decision of a, of a student. So that's different. They have amenities like gyms and, and, you know, again, these rooftop patios and study rooms and indoor parking and 24 hour security.   So that's from a tenant perspective, it's a dream they're located very close to campus in most cases. And from an operational perspective, I mean, these kids are now, they realize how lucky they are to be in those places. Their 12 month leases, they have parental guarantees. Sometimes they have cross tenant guarantees. So there's no issues with damage. And, and from a demand perspective, there's so much demand, you know, we have, we're, Canada's huge for international students. You know, I'm not sure if you know, but there, I think that the number is 5 million international students and Canada's third behind the U S and Australia.   Our education system is amazing. Our universities are ranked really well in the world. And so there's a lot of demand for these universities. Most of the students that are coming in have money there for them, whether they're paying $750 per month or $800, it doesn't really move the needle too much. And so you have really strong demand and equally important is the fact that it's the one asset class that is a great protection for inflation, right? Because you have 50% turnover every year.   And so unlike retail or industrial or office where you're locked into long-term leases for apartments, where you're maybe five to 10% turnover per year in student housing, you get 50% turnover. So it's the only asset class that allows you to truly capture the inflation should that materialize. So I think from a demand perspective, you're good from an operational perspective, you're good from a inflation perspective, you good? So I I'm very bullish on, on student housing and the quality of these purpose-built buildings are very high.   I mean, as a, as a parent, I can tell you that if my choice was a basement apartment for my kids with three other friends or one of those buildings, it's a no brainer we try to take and I'd be happy to pay more.   Jesse (34m 53s): Yeah, for sure. And I think when I started investing, it was in Waterloo. I went to school out there and that was, I think, kind of when I was finishing, they started to build these purpose built and, you know, pool rooms, gyms, like, eh, like everything you're describing here. And then the other piece is even compared to, in juxtaposition to regular apartments, where you have tenants that will stay in because we still have rent stabilization in Ontario or rent control in Ontario, you have the turnover. So you have the natural mark to market with, with the rents with student rentals that I think gets overlooked probably through the haze of this idea that students are just trashing these places, which it, you know, if you see, if you see the way that they're built today is not the case.   I'm curious when you are for student rentals, because you see a lot of these companies in, in the, in the states and in Canada that are signing up, sorry, they're, they're buying properties, they're developing them. And then they're actually taking on the property management of the companies. Is that, is that something that's being looked at holistically when you're underwriting those deals?   Andrew (35m 59s): Yeah. I mean, look much like seniors, housing, student housing is very much an operational business. So, you know, as much as I love the asset class, I think the caveat is you have to know what you're doing from an operational perspective. I mean, there's a different level of rapport you have to have with your tenants. You interact a lot more. They're very spontaneous. They want things immediately, right? Like they can't, I have a request for something to be fixed and you get two days later, it has to be immediate. You have to address things right away. So there's a different dynamic with your tenants at the same time.   Look, you are getting substantially higher rents because of this. So there's very much an operational component to the business. And I think the good operators don't know how to do that. And they can create synergies, especially if they have a larger portfolio. And so that's really important. So we do look at who the operator is, and it does make a difference that, you know, you're not a one-off and you understand what it's like to be and manage that asset class. You know, I think the more and more we're seeing consolidation in that as well.   I mean, we're, we're, you know, we're happy to have, you know, aligned with some Woodburn who are the top two operators in that field, and we can see how great they are managing their portfolio, because they understand again, how to manage. And they create synergies by having so many buildings in that, you know, a new player out of the U S Harrison street there they're coming in as well. And they've had experienced operating student housing in the U S so you're starting to see international interest in this asset class. You know, there's, there's squad Rio there, RBC, there are people that are large Canadian institutional investors, CPP, you know, who have large international portfolios, and they've never come into the Canadian market because it was too fragmented and it was too small.   And you know, now that there'll be some amalgamation now that you're starting to see players develop bigger portfolios, I think there'll be more interest because somebody that's large can come in and buy a large portfolio versus the one-off, which again is not going to move the needle. So, you know, again, I love the asset class, but I think it's, it's really important to understand the operational aspect of it, to know that what you, you know, when you're going into it, you need really need to know what you're, what you're doing and how you're dealing with   Jesse (38m 13s): On the, on the construction side for, for student rental, are you seeing companies that are building completely from scratch in some of these towns or, or actually buying existing existing properties and, and converting the use or, or, you know, changing something to student residents, whether that's complete change of use or just adding to the existing?   Andrew (38m 34s): Yeah, I think all of the above, you know, we've seen traditionally, it's been the one-off developers that have built, and then they've sold, you know, to the larger players, like the likes of Woodburn and align best. We're seeing these companies partner up with developers now as well for future developments. We have seen, you know, people come in and buy finished products with the hope that they'll be able to acquire more in that market. I mean, there are certain markets that, you know, certainly Waterloo has had a lot of development.   Kingston near Queens has had a lot of development. Toronto has had a lot of development, you know, I think though for the most part, what people don't understand is that these universities are full and the buildings, the good quality buildings are full as well. And so if you're building a good project, I don't think there's a risk for over-saturation. You know, I'm not worried about what a loo being oversaturated, because when you look at the enrollment, it's increasing substantially every year, and these kids again are coming from abroad, or they're coming from Toronto, or they come from Montreal, they come from other cities, they're there for the quality of the university.   And they're gonna pay if they're paying so much for tuition, they're certainly going to pay an extra a hundred dollars a month to live in a brand new purpose-built building over a, you know, an old basement apartment. So I think the good quality buildings in these places are full and the good operators know how to run them, to keep them full. So I'm, I, I do believe that that this will continue. You know, the other thing is some of the universities own buildings on campus, but they're old buildings, you know, they need retrofitting and to do that, you need to really gut them.   You need to empty them and got them and start them almost, you know, from the beginning, which means there's a, they're gonna decrease supply. Right. Which means that you're going to need more, you know, off-campus supplies. So that, that helps as well. The markets.   Jesse (40m 29s): Yeah, for sure. Andrew, we have four questions. We ask every guests at the end of the show and want to be conscientious of your time before we, before we get into that, we'd just love your thoughts on, on where you see opportunity in maybe the, the short to mid term in, in whether it's Canadian market us, you pick,   Andrew (40m 50s): I would say the only asset class that I really like is the one we just talked about, student housing. I just, I liked the protection against inflation. And I liked the fact that your tenants are not rent sensitive. I would say that is probably my only real opportunity. I mean, I still like multi-racial development providing that it's in the right markets and you have a very longterm outlook on it. You know, I don't think you should be building an apartment building if you have a five-year timeframe.   I think if you're a generational investor and you're building good quality real estate, that you're gonna pass through generations, I still like rent a multifamily, but you know, if you're just buying for the short term, I don't like it as much.   Jesse (41m 35s): Gotcha. All right, Andrew, if you're good to go with these all, I'll fire them off at. Yeah. All   Andrew (41m 40s): Right. Let's see it.   Jesse (41m 42s): Okay. What is something that, you know, now in your career, it can be in first national or, or business in general, you wish you knew when you, when you got started in this industry,   Andrew (41m 55s): You know, I would say understanding the, you need to add value to be properly compensated. And I would say, you know, don't be afraid to ask, to get paid, providing the, you add value. You know, most people, you know, they're always uncomfortable too. And I was too, too, oh, I got to talk about fees now. Well, that's who I got to ask to get paid, but you know what? I've come to realize over the years, if you truly add value, you should get compensated for, for your services.   You know, nobody works for free and you know, you should get paid. But the key though is understand how you add value. So understand who you're dealing with and what it is that you can provide to make that person, that company, that board, that developer better, you know, how do you enhance their life? To me, it's about, you know, making people money, saving the money and mitigating the risks. You know, these are the, this is sort of the mantra I live by. You know, when I talk to somebody it's like, can I help you make more money? Can I help you save money? And can I help mitigate your risk?   If you do these things, you're adding value. And if you add value, I think you should get properly compensated for it.   Jesse (43m 2s): What does mentorship mean to you? And what would you, what piece of advice would you give the younger individuals coming into our industry?   Andrew (43m 11s): You know, mentorship for me was huge. I mean, you know, everything I know in this industry started with Maury and I am forever grateful for, for his mentorship and his guidance and his, you know, introduction to people and watching him, you know, how he talked and how he dealt with people. It was, it was really useful for me. I think as a young person, you know, try really hard to be around good people and try to listen as much as you can. You know, there's so much knowledge and the people that had been around in the industry for a long time, they have so much knowledge, you know, of how deals work of real estate of just so many tidbits that you can pick up along the way.   I would say, if he can really put yourself in an office that's surrounded by and surround yourself with good people, you know, really do that, which is why I'm so adamant about people coming back to work. Cause I think that's the only way you can really learn. You know, you're not going to learn by being on a team skull, you know, you need to be there in person. So surround yourself with good people and just be a sponge, try to learn as much as you can also have a really long term outlook. You know, don't focus too much on what am I going to get paid today? You know, what's my job title today. Think about, you know, what is it that you can learn and are you around good people?   Because if you are, then you're going to learn a lot and you're going to, you know, benefit more in the long run. That's   Jesse (44m 33s): Great. What a book recommendation would, would you be able to give our listeners, we can put it up in the show notes,   Andrew (44m 41s): Huh? Atlas drug, but that's about a thousand pages and that takes a really long time.   Jesse (44m 47s): That's hilarious. I, that is the first we've gotten that. That's a, that's pretty good. And that is a long one though.   Andrew (44m 53s): You know, I, I thought the Steve jobs book was interested in the way he constantly challenged the status quo. You know, whether you like them or didn't like him as a person, I just loved the creativity and the ability to constantly challenge that I'm not satisfied with this, make it better. I want this. And every idea of his was always challenged and questioned, but that's how you create new things. Amazing things.   Jesse (45m 16s): I'll take us a month to make, okay, we need it next week. Last question. The, a nice softball first car make and model   Andrew (45m 26s): A Ford tempo, Ford   Jesse (45m 28s): Tempo. I   Andrew (45m 29s): Like it.   Jesse (45m 31s): That's funny. We had a, we had a Ford Fairlane on which I think, I think it was a car that my dad drove back in the seventies, but that's the first Ford tempo right on Andrew for first of all, thank you so much for coming on for individuals that if they're in the area or want to reach out connect, where's the best place for them to go   Andrew (45m 51s): LinkedIn or the first national website? My contact is there,   Jesse (45m 55s): I guess today has been Andrew Drexler. Andrew, thank you for being part of working capital.   Andrew (45m 60s): My pleasure, Jesse. Thank you.   Jesse (46m 9s): Thank you so much for listening to working capital the real estate podcast. I'm your host, Jesse for galley. If you liked the episode, head on to iTunes and leave us a five star review and share on social media, it really helps us out. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me on Instagram, Jesse for galley, F R a G a L E, have a good one. Take care.

Sub Club
026: Eric Crowley, GP Bullhound - Optimizing Your Subscription App for Growth

Sub Club

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 27, 2021 54:12


Our guest today is Eric Crowley, a tech investment banker with GP Bullhound. With investments in companies ranging from Spotify to Whoop, and clients such as AllTrails, Pinkbike, and Lingoda, GP Bullhound provides transaction advice and capital to many of the leaders in the Consumer Subscription Software space.On the podcast we talk with Eric about his 2021 report on Consumer Subscription Software, the truth about LTV calculations, and the new era of organic user acquisition.In this episode, you'll learn: Was 2020 just a “COVID Bump,” or a shift in consumer behavior? Are the Bumble & Duolingo IPO multiples justified? How savvy developers are adapting to Apple's App Tracking Transparency The truth about LTV The new era of customer acquisition Links & Resources Spotify Whoop AllTrails Pinkbike Lingoda Bumble Duolingo Instacart Match Group Netflix Noom Weight Watchers Tinder The Dyrt Day One Journal Automattic Tech Crunch Scribd Pandora Eric Crowley's Links Follow Eric on Twitter GP Bullhound GP Bullhound insights Eric's LinkedIn GP Bullhound 2021 CSS survey Follow us on Twitter: David Barnard Jacob Eiting RevenueCat Sub Club Episode Transcript00:00:00 David:Hello, I'm your host. David Bernard. And with me, as always, RevenueCat CEO, Jacob Eiting. Our guest today is Eric Crowley, a tech investment banker with GP Bullhound. With investments in companies ranging from Spotify to Whoop, and clients such as AllTrails Pinkbike, and Lingoda, GP Bullhound provides transaction advice and capital to many of the leaders in consumer subscription software.On the podcast, we talk with Eric about his 2021 report on consumer subscription software, the truth about LTV calculations, and the new era of organic user acquisition.Hey, Eric, welcome to the podcast.00:00:56 Eric:Hey, David, Jacob. Thanks for having me back. It's always a pleasure. 00:00:59 David:Yeah. Every year you release this report, so we had to get you back. This is the third annual Consumer Subscription Software Report, and I wanted to kick off just asking you a little bit about the motivation, and where your headspace is in thinking about creating this. Who the target is, and what kind of questions you're asking yourself as you prepare this report.00:01:24 Eric:Yeah. The report is the GP Bullhound Consumer Subscription Software Report. I call it CSS, which is kind of a playoff SaaS. This is the third year I've been writing it, and it started back in 2018. I worked with a company called AllTrails that was starting to monetize really well by selling subscriptions.It was like a light bulb went off in my head. I was like, this is a phenomenal way to provide a consistently improving product to consumers, where the margins are pretty good. It's easy to access a ton of different people globally through the app stores or through the web, and I just got really excited about it.I started putting some notes down on my own, and then GP Bullhound really supported me in saying like, “Hey, this is actually a pretty big trend. There's gonna be some amazing companies built around this space,” and companies like RevenueCat, that are supporting CSS companies, are just as exciting.So, we've been slowly educating ourselves. The goal behind the report is really just to force me to do some thinking about the space. What it looks like. What it will be. As a banker, you can quickly focus on transaction, transaction, transaction, and not really do any long-term thinking about where the world's going.It's putting myself in your guys's shoes. You guys are building RevenueCat not for what the world looks like today, but for what the world looks like in three to five years. I try to take the same approach with CSS, and think about where's the world going to go. So I talked to a lot of smart people as I put the report together. Entrepreneurs, investors, get their opinions.You guys can see their interviews in the report, and then ultimately we publish it. The audience I like to think about is entrepreneurs, people that are thinking about starting a CSS company, or already launched one, and they're looking to improve their metrics, or think about their target audience as entrepreneur-rich.By partnering with them, investing in their businesses, it takes them to the next level. The other way I like to think about it, it's my own personal scoreboard. I love to flip back two years ago and see, was I right about this company? You're publishing in public, so people can always come back to you and say, “Man, you were way off.” So, I look forward to that.00:03:26 Jacob:I remember the F finding the first one, the 2018, I guess, reporter 2019, whenever the first one you put out,00:03:33 Eric:2019, I think that's how we met actually.00:03:36 Jacob:Did you reach out to me or? I think I found it, or I don't remember what it was, but00:03:39 Eric:We've had a mutual friend, Nico introduced us and said, Hey, you guys should talk about this. and then I think we just went off on a two hour tangent.00:03:47 Jacob:But yeah, I remember being, it's still, there's still not a ton of like really focused research or writing on this space. and I think that, that, you know, this will probably won't be true for very long, right. As long as it continues to grow, but like going back to like who it's for. I mean, I imagine it as some, you know, end of the day, if you're employing.Pushing into some kind of lead gen. Right. But it does provide a lot of value for, you know, even if you're not interested in a transaction or whatever, just. Some like holistic data on a space. Cause like, I, the same, I mean, Eric, you said we're, we're thinking three and five years in the future. It's like, I wish like a lot of times I'm thinking like three to six weeks in the future.Right. and so it's even useful, I think, you know, even if you're, you know, I, you know, we're, we're in a bit of an interesting place as a infrastructure provider to be at kind of a bird's eye view, but it. Founder on one of these CSS apps, you know, like it is useful for you to know, like what's the meta environment, how's it evolving, you know?And if nothing else to like connect you with other people who have experimented with things and stuff like that. So, yeah, I think it provides beyond, beyond the, the, the lead gen aspect of it. It provides a lot of value for people. So I'm glad, I'm glad you're, you're still doing it. 00:05:04 Eric:Yeah. And just for any of the listeners, it is free. So you just go to the GP, bullhorn.com website. It's all easy to download and then you can see all our past reports as well. So 00:05:12 David:Yeah, and we'll drop it in the show notes. but, yeah. And, and, and speaking of all that, you know, it, it's something we as RevenueCat want to get more into as well. I mean, just seeing how much value you've created in producing these reports, and we're kind of sitting on a, you know, Processing over a billion dollars a year in, subscription revenue.We've got a lot of interesting data that, that we, that I'm very personally excited to share that we haven't, kind of had the infrastructure to, to do yet, but are, are getting there. And, so hopefully we'll, we'll have our own kind of, state of subscriptions that dives into the data and some of the trends and stuff in a different way than, than your kind of, strategy and higher level look at things.But when one thing that has happened, in the actually. It was announced before your last report, but actually implemented since your last report. And that's the app tracking transparency and iOS 14, which didn't actually ship till iOS. What was it? 14.4 or five or something. So, so we're kind of just now starting to see the impacts of it.And, and, you know, you took a couple of slides in your report to start discussing it. And it really is kind of one of the biggest topics and top of mind for subscription app developers, because it really is a huge shift in the landscape. So I want it to. Start with talking about that. And one of the things you shared in the, in the presentation is that you feel like it's a short-term pain, that's ultimately going to lead to a long-term gain.So I'd love to hear your thinking around what that pain is, but then also what you see the long-term game being.00:07:01 Eric:Yeah, it's a, it's a, great point. And, you know, anytime apple or Google make changes to their, their, their app stores, right. It's a seismic shift throughout the industry because it's something that impacts everyone. And so everyone has to be aware of these changes and then ultimately have a plan for them.And so I think that the change you're talking about David is really the. The implementation of, removing tracking for a lot of, a lot of these businesses specifically, like. And so what the change did with IDFA, is it, it really deprecated the ability for, for marketers within some of these CSS businesses to really accurately target people, specifically using Facebook or some of these other social networks.And so what it's doing is it. It's impacting the conversion rates on, CSS, CSS, businesses, marketing to consumers. And so if you just can't find that person that just is in love with, for example, biking, if you're a Strava marketer, it just takes you a lot longer to find that specific subscribers you might have to market to 10 people now to find two subscribers versus before you can market to five people and find two subscribers.And so it just means marketing efficiencies going down. And that can mean. Growth rates. It can impact conversion rates and ultimately impact just financials of these businesses. And so it's a pretty important consideration for any, CEO marketing team on how they go out and get their, their business in front of consumers.If Facebook's no longer as efficient, they have to find other ways. And so. So my, my thought is like, this is a short-term problem, right? It's something that's going to take people two to three months to adapt and find a new way to reach consumers. But ultimately my hope is for the space is you see the long-term game, which is what I was referencing.People really focus on organic ways of acquiring customers. Right? So instead of just pumping ads through Facebook and trying to find someone who fits a profile, you spend a lot more time really narrowly targeting your demographic, your niche, and then finding ways for them to find your product organically either.You know? So like a company that I work with, we sold a company called Pinkbike and so what they do is they partner with, the trade associations for mountain. And those trails associations now act almost as the marketing partner of pink bike to let consumers know about the fact that all the trail details.Is on, is on the pink bike app or it's called trail forks. And so that's, that's a really powerful, organic customer acquisition tool that they don't have to pay for. And so you're seeing, seeing the same thing happen with, like Strava is doing this, pre.com recently partnered with the NFL. So if your team's got a last fourth quarter fuel goal and you need to get something kicked, you can go to pray.com and submit a prayer for your kicker. I wish I was joking. It's a pretty brilliant idea. So I think this is really good for the sector overall, but yeah. Happy to dive into it. It's it's a fascinating00:09:37 Jacob:We it's a callback to a sub club podcast content, but, Greg, this, the plant app, this is something that they were doing, which is like, we're partnering with, plant nurseries. Yeah. To like, get their app into people's hands. And, yeah, I don't know if it's an earned media or. Bought media, but this is more like this is earned, right?This is like building an audience. You've seen it in the maker community, actually a lot, like in the indie SaaS community, more it's a different game when it has to be consumer scale. Right? Like there's a little bit different. You have to build maybe a bit more than you would in like, oh, just blog about.Built this thing and that's enough to get Indies, but you can apply the same thing, right? It's like produce content, produce something like low investment for users to get engaged with your brand because you're not building an app unless you have some, I mean, maybe you are, but you're not going to build something with very high, like multiples.Like if you're, if you don't have something unique to offer in the first place, but put that into like a more like lightly consumable format, start to build that audience and then make that an on-ramp and yeah, I agree. Like that's, that's something you own, right? Like your brand is. your brand doesn't exist on the app store, right?Like your brand can exist outside of these, like shifting sands and regulations and whatnot, and ultimately is like, you know, going to get reflected in your asset value if that's something you care about. Right. So, 00:10:53 Eric:Yeah, that's a key thing we talk about, right. If any business that we look at that's potentially selling or, or thinking about raising capital, right? It's like, how are you finding your. And if you're, if you're one channel is Facebook, and then consequently, like doing Facebook ads or apple ads on the, on the app store, that becomes pretty challenging.And so you want it to be such a good product, right? So it involves more work upfront. And just as you're talking about Jacob, the product's gotta be better. It's gotta be more efficient. It's got to reach consumers where they are with the problem they have. it becomes a lot more viral and a lot more sticky.So I think, I think it's going to be good for the sector.00:11:26 David:You wouldn't want to name names of course, but I am curious if. Had any clients, or just talks about anybody in the space where they were very reliant on Facebook specifically, and then, and have really struggled as things have changed. You know, I've been seeing some tweets around the, the consumer packaged goods space where some of these CPG companies are really struggling.And so I'm just curious. You know, without naming names, if, if there's any kind of high level things you could share around, apps that have struggled in this new paradigm. 00:12:02 Eric:Yeah. I mean, I definitely can't name names, you know, obviously I keep everything confidential with my clients, but even non-clients, you've seen CACs go up 20, 30%. you see, like, if you think about like conversion rates from installs to subs, That's a big metric of actual intent. Did you find the right user, right?Did someone just click on it and download it? Great. But if they're not actually subscribing that wasn't a successful transaction for you. And so the way I think about this, David is it's the app stores made tracking a lot harder, so it's harder to find your right consumer. So imagine if you're a CPG company, you walk into a grocery.And instead of stuff, being laid out perfectly across the shelves at the right height for you, they just tossed everything in the middle of the store and said, find what you want. Just go pick it out. Right. You're going to have much lower conversion. You're going to have much lower purchase rates because people aren't being targeted with the stuff they want to see.And so I think now you have to find, you know, it becomes more of a specialty situation where you're walking into a store that has stuff for just outdoor gear or very healthy granola. Right. And you're going specifically to that store for that. That's probably better in the long term, for a lot of these companies, 00:13:01 Jacob:Yeah, but there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of folks that have benefited from this ease relative ease, right. And any sort of market disruption is going to be painful. I was like, anecdotally, I mean, David, we've heard on this podcast and elsewhere people who have just like straight up pause acquisition, who are like all re scrambling because yeah.You get it tuned to this very fine knife edge. And I imagine for like consumer physical goods, like DDC stuff, it's even worse because their margins are thinner than software. Right. 00:13:28 Eric:And you've got inventory and everything. Yeah. It's a totally different. 00:13:31 Jacob:But, you know, as you do like you, the market reshuffles and the people, I can figure it out, the fastest are gonna are going to come out the best.So. 00:13:39 Eric:There's going to be a shift though. So people under this is like that seismic shift that just shows how much of your reliance is on maybe one or two channels. Right? Two, two major tech companies sitting here in San Francisco. If you're super, truly relying on those and you're doing great, fine.But if a bump happens, right, how exposed are you? And so like, this will be a benefit. Right. I think it's going to be a huge benefit for Tik TOK. Right? I think people are finding really good ways to acquire customers through tic-tac. And so that's a very interesting channel. I think it'd be really good for influencers, right?If you have people that are very passionate about a certain space and then they go out and, you know, have a very core customer base that loves what they do specifically. It's going to be pretty powerful for them to.00:14:18 David:Yeah, and I was just gonna say, anecdotally, you know, we haven't done a super deep dive in our data, but at a, at a high level, I was. Bracing for our numbers to take a big dip. Like I, I mean, Jacob and I had talked about it in the spring about, you know, how, what is going to look like for RevenueCat, you know, are some of these subscription apps just going to completely unwind and people are apparently figuring it out because you know, it keeps going up until the right. 00:14:49 Jacob:I mean the consumer, the consumer need hasn't disappeared. Right. So maybe if they just weren't driven, you know, it's not going to, it can't just disappear overnight. Right? Like if you never, if you, if you are a Coke fan who never saw Coke out again, and it's like, you're still gonna buy it. Right. Like there's, there's, there's a certain amount of demand.That's just going to find the supply. But, but yeah, no, I mean, it's hard for us to, to definitively say looking at our data and aggregators. Cause there's so much, but they're definitely. Like this summer was definitely slower than we've had in the past. Like on my, as I'm writing my investor updates of the year and each month and stuff looking at it.But yeah, it wasn't like this catastrophic, you know, macro thing. And they were talking about a lot of like, you know, probably outliers that we hear about people who were affected, you know, more than others, but overall. I, I don't think our, I don't think our prediction last year of, of a potential recession was necessarily false.Like it doesn't, it definitely doesn't feel like it's sped up the ecosystem. Right. But it doesn't necessarily feel like a depression, right. Maybe, maybe a slight recession or just the normalization. 00:15:49 David:Looking at our data in aggregate that, some folks use this to their advantage and actually, and, and accelerated because they knew it was coming and they did focus more on product and organic and other things. And so for whatever, you know, losses, there were. Other folks more than made up for that.And that's it kind of the interesting thing about working with so many, I mean, we're closing in on 10,000 apps on revenue cat. And so, you know, you kind of have a pretty broad basket where you, you know, there are going to be winners and losers, but in aggregate subscription apps are just continuing to tick along and do really well. 00:16:26 Eric:David it's like you read directly from bullets on my report. I, I, I completely agree with you.00:16:34 David:Another thing I wanted to dive into was the, the COVID bump. Cause that's, that's another thing that's kind of been on everybody's mind is simultaneous to this. I was 14 and, and this is something we've talked about again internally, with revenue cat, is it. This summer was the, everybody who was vaccinated and, and Delta hadn't kind of bumped yet.And so, you know, may, June and July, there was a big shift socially. kind of it felt like it, especially in the U S that we were coming out of the pandemic. and, and so simultaneous to the app, tracking transparency, going into effect, we had these like societal shift. And then now we're kind of back into it a little bit with the Delta surge, but just curious what your thoughts are on how much of the boosts we saw in 2020 really was dependent DEMEC and then how much of that will actually linger as kind of shifting consumer preferences and shifting consumer spend.00:17:36 Eric:Yeah. I mean, there's, there's absolutely a companies that benefited from us is called the removal of inf in in-person conversations. Right? So like Bumble and DuoLingo, two companies that both went public, right. They both benefited because their, their business model is designed around, not meeting in person for the first couple of conversations.Right. And so. There's no way to say that they didn't benefit. the way I think about it, though, in this, in the CSS space, it's very similar to like the overall e-commerce space, right? Is consumers looked around to find a solution for a problem they're having right. Instacart you couldn't, you couldn't go to the grocery store or maybe you felt less comfortable going to the grocery store.So you tried an Instacart for the first time. Maybe you were, you know, thinking about meeting someone, you know, long-term but you never, you never wanted to try online dating or you couldn't go to the bar. So you tried online dating for the first time and sorry. What the pandemic did was it really opened up people's eyes to other options from what they'd been doing for the last 20 years, 50 years, whatever it was.And so they had to find other solutions to, you know, their demands, their needs. And so I don't, I think it's absolutely a COVID bump, but I still look at it as really as an accelerant of people adopting new products and services that they would have tried in three to four years. but the pandemic kind of pushed them to try something, to move out of their comfort zone and try something new.So, you know, I absolutely think you'll see a little bit of a downshift in, in some of these companies that had a really big boom, right? Like language learning. People had nothing to do for four to five months, especially over some of the winter times. So people tried new hobby, tried language learning, you know, that'll probably go down a little bit, but overall, if you look at it from like a five-year trend, It's going to be up substantially from where it was in 20 17, 20 18, 20 19, and 2020, you know, made it look like a little bit of bump, but eventually I think those companies will continue to grow and surpass what anything they did in 2020. 00:19:21 David:Yeah, that's really interesting.00:19:22 Jacob:I'll back that up as well with the, the unreleased, Jacob looks at graphs and then gives a, gives a hand wavy descriptions of them. But we, yeah, we, we were, I was kind of bracing for it as well. And then I would say this summer was slow and like, David was. We're not sure why. I think it was, I think it was a number of factors things have since picked up again.But I think generally summers are slow for software a and then B. Yeah, I think we were seeing kind of like a little bit of the payback for, for COVID perhaps it's a, it's a vial. I think it's a plausible theory. We don't, it's really hard to prove. but we have not seen, you know, we, we saw our COVID experience was really drastic.And we have not seen. Similar, like back off from that, like, it has been like, it has been like we just compressed six months and I'm saying partially, this is just revenue casts, individual story because of where we were last year. But then I think also it's, it's indicative of the system in general.It's like, I think, yeah, we just compressed a whole bunch of, like consumer behavior change into like a very short period of time. And yeah, we're not gonna be able to keep that up. Right. We're not gonna be able to continue. To, to crunch that in, or we'll run out of consumers eventually. But, but it doesn't look like everybody's, you know, because, you know, I think the story for CSS in general, it's like we've delivered value for people, right?Like it's, it's a good, it's a good product, right? The whole line, not every product is good, but in general it's like a it's, it's a decent deal. And so I, I think more people discovering that. Yeah, it can only get bigger, right.00:20:55 Eric:Yeah, I think we talked about it in our first year, our first time together, right on the last podcast, which is if these businesses are truly making consumers' lives better, this is going to be a very long-term.00:21:04 Jacob:Yeah. 00:21:05 David:And speaking of that, and the two companies you just mentioned, in the, Time since we last spoke, but Bumble and DuoLingo went public and some other consumer subscription, apps went public. so tell me a little bit about your, your perspective on the, the public investor. Excitement for CSS.I mean, we're seeing pretty high multiples in the both of those IPS did, did very well. so what are you seeing in the, in the public investor space?00:21:33 Eric:Yeah, I think, I think the public market has really woken up to this business model, the power of it and understanding, you know, it's public markets. They do a lot of pattern matching, right? If they've seen something be super successful, they look for something that looks similar to that. And so I think a lot of people are waking up to, how powerful Salesforce is not waking up.They're well awake, very aware of SAS businesses. But I think they're seeing that same pattern starts to take, hold on, CSS. It just has different metrics. Right? And so, you know, Bumble's now public, the match group's been public for quite some time. Once I spun out of IAC, you've got Netflix and Spotify, which are fantastic examples of the international global reach of Content, and how consumers are very sticky for something they love.And so. These businesses who can get to scale really quickly, like you nuMe, right, is a competitor to weight Watchers. Weight Watchers has been around for decades, but Newman built a better mouse trap and they acquired customers at a really quick rate. And, you know, they're well over 400 million in revenue and ready for the public market.So I expect them to go public. Pretty soon. And so I think there's going to be a lot of businesses that follow them that are using this, this metric. So, and then that'll cascade all the way through, from public market investors as, as exit opportunities all the way down to, you know, series a series B investors, seeing this business model work and scale.00:22:47 Jacob:Yeah. I mean, I guess my, like, what's your, like, I, I, when, when we started seeing these go public in the last, like couple of years, so, well, I mean, honestly, it's like, Since we started RevenueCat, like was actually the, kind of the first unicorns, even like, I guess Bumble might've been passing unicorn when we got started, but like there weren't a ton and now it's like every, every month there's a funding announcement for a CSS company.That's a, that's a university. I mean, partially that's just like valuations going up and stuff like this, but like, how do you see. The evolution of this market. Long-term, you know, so DuoLingo pops becomes the first, you know, are they going to be like Salesforce and just be dominant in that space forever?Or do you see it being maybe more dynamic than sasses?00:23:31 Eric:I think it's a little more dynamic than SAS for, for a couple of reasons. One, new consumers like to try stuff, right. And so if it's with like a Salesforce or something, right. That integrates into your day to day operations from a business model perspective, right. So if something breaks there, right.Your business. 00:23:47 Jacob:Is very high. 00:23:48 Eric:Yeah, it's a little higher, right. And it's not just you using it. It's your entire business. Right? So you've got 10 people using this product or 20 people or 5,000, depending on the size of your company. Right. In CSS. It's it's you, maybe you and your family. Right? So it's a little bit of a different switching cost.So that's, that's one. However, these companies can scale a lot of. and they can, they don't have like the heavy, heavy cost and, you know, on the sales and marketing side. So I think they have an ability to actually get to profitability a lot faster, especially if they have an organic customer acquisition engine.And so I think that's going to be a big difference between that, between CSS and SAS. 00:24:23 Jacob:So, yeah, you mentioned the metrics are different. What are, what are the metrics that folks are, public investors are looking at for these companies that it might be different from a SAS company?00:24:33 Eric:Yeah. I mean, a lot of them are the same metrics, but the numbers that are like good are different, right? So like on a SAS business model, right. Revenue growth is just as attractive as a CSS business model revenue growth. Right. Everyone wants to see high double digits, triple digit numbers on revenue growth.But like an interesting thing is net revenue retention. Now that's very different, right? In CSS, you typically don't upcharge people or have additional seats be filled because it's just one person. Right. So, you know, maybe you get an. 00:24:59 Jacob:It's not much expansion opportunity. 00:25:00 Eric:Yeah, you can, you can do maybe some, some packages, upgrades, and people are starting to experiment that you can pack it and you can experiment with bump, bundling 00:25:07 Jacob:But it's certainly never going to be greater. It's never going to be net positive, right? 00:25:11 Eric:No, you're never going to see a net positive number where a lot of the SAS businesses, right.People are looking for net revenue, retention, numbers of north of one, 20, 120% net revenue retention 00:25:18 Jacob:I mean the opposite of churn, right. Which if you have a CSS business with opposite, Congratulations. like 00:25:25 Eric:Yeah. You're doing something well, and I haven't found it yet, but yeah, 00:25:28 Jacob:You might be the only one 00:25:29 Eric:Yes, I think that's right. 00:25:31 David:Quick, point though, to counterpoint to what y'all were both just saying, of all the apps, dating app, it's totally slipping my mind. 00:25:40 Jacob:Tinder. partnership. David, look at us. We're like on a wavelength. 00:25:46 David:They, they have in-app purchase. They have consumable in-app purchases to boost your, profile. They're one of the few that I've seen that could potentially actually have a. A a positive, net revenue retention. whereas most subscription apps are just a subscription. it's going to be interesting to see if other subscription apps can pull off that sort of model that you could actually generate a, a net net revenue retention. 00:26:19 Eric:I think you nailed it, David. So that's coming from. Right. I think people first experimented with, Hey, how do I get someone to buy my product every year or every month? Right. And now is how do you make it even better? So they're starting to listen to their core users. And we talk about this a little bit on the LTVs.And what do these people want and what makes this experience even better for them. And I think you nailed it with Tinder, right? It's the most, it's the easiest thing to convince people to, to encourage more is more, you know, more relationships, right? People love more relationships and people are willing to pay for that.And so, you know, then what else, what else could this go down the path of, right. What other options could people pay for additional services? Or what we've seen is like marketplaces or transactions spinning on. Right. So if you have a really passionate user base and they're going out there doing, camping, for example, like on, on the dirt, it's a camping site, right?What about doing a marketplace to buy and sell use tents right now is not a subscription, but now if someone's paying, like, okay, now they bought something through your marketplace and you get 10% of that purchase price. So there's going to be a lot of stuff. I think that happens there, to encourage that, to encourage that LTV numbers start rising, I just haven't seen a ton yet, make it happen above 00:27:26 Jacob:It's a scale problem. I need to do that either be at such scale for that to make sense. So I was going to say for anybody, listening to this, that hasn't reached 20 million in ARR, probably north of that do not add a marketplace to your 00:27:37 Eric:I totally agree with that. Very, very much focused focus, focus. And so I would even say like closer to 50 00:27:43 Jacob:Yeah. I mean, until you're like, how do we get this thing public? Or how do we show, like, how do we show like N plus one revenue streams, right? Like it's kinda more what it's about than it is necessarily the revenue generated. 00:27:53 Eric:I'm just a dreamer though. You're just a realist. I'm here, I'm here. And you're just telling me all that stuff that could go wrong. 00:27:58 David:One of the things you just kinda touched on that I wanted to dive deeper into was, was a truth about LTVs. And I love this slide on the, on your presentation, kind of defining these two cohorts, which I've never heard, defined this way. And I really loved the analogy and I'm going to start sort of stealing it from you and use.And crediting you of course. but in the presentation you define, tourists and locals, and then talk about kind of the importance of identifying these different cohorts. So tell me about Who the locals are and why that matters and who the tourists are and how companies can start, analyzing their data to understand this and better target marketing, better, craft the experience in the app and, and those sorts of things. 00:28:46 Eric:Yeah. So we're going to geek out here guys, and, really go deep into STSS. Right? So this is where, this is where my brain goes sometimes on a Saturday night, which is just exciting. but so the way I've been thinking about CSS a lot, and so the LTV component of CSS, which is lifetime value, Which I'm sure all your listeners are very, very well aware of is kind of like how much money can you make from this consumer over time.Right. And it's a function of your pricing and it's an, a function of your turn rate. And so, a lot of people are very focused on this metric as investors or buyers, right? Because it's effectively, how valuable is your customer? So it's an extremely important metric. The problem with this metric and lots of other metrics is it's, it's derived from an app.Right. It's looking at all your users that come into your, in your ecosystem is paying customers. And then how do they perform over time? and it's, it's driven, it's driven off an average of all your users. And so when I've gone through some of my client's data and you look at their user base, right, we, we quickly discovered there's a, there's kind of two different profiles.And I won't use any names here, but let's just, let's just say it's, a walking company, right? So you're, you've got people that go out and they, they sign up, you have a hundred people that. And 20 of them start walking every day and they're, and they, this is what they love and they're tracking, they're walking and you've got another 40 that do it for like a month or two.And then they kind of drop off and then just like, I'm going to go do biking or skateboarding or something. And I switch and you've got another people that sign up. They subscribed to it because their friend pressured him into it and they hate walking and they're never going to walk again and they turn off immediately.Right. So you kind of have those three different groups, some that are just going to do whatever. Some that do it for two to three months and then leave. And then some that do it the first month. And then say, forget this. I'm never going to use this again. And so the problem is your LTV of each one of those three groups are very, very different.And so what, we've, what we've been guiding investors and entrepreneurs, as they think about their growing their businesses, really find out who those locals are, who those people that are going to come and use your app every day, every week, every summer, whatever, whatever the metric is that you're looking.And find ways to measure that, right? Because ultimately that's who you need to bring to your community. And one, those people make the community run more robust, right? Cause they're constantly contributing feedback into the. To, they're much more likely to stay around with you guys. And so you need to find those tools that they're looking for.Right? Like seeing around the corner and saying like, okay, this person loves walking. What else can I provide them? What about a weather forecast? So now that they are about to go out and walking, you know, what does the weather look like? And, oh my God, this is now, this is my one-stop stop for, for walking.And so I think w we've been guidinGP Bullhound's like if you use the averages as a broad metric and that's great, and you should, because investors are going to want to know that, but, but really dig deep into your, your cohort and understand like who's using this every day, all day and what do they need. And so if you can really identify that and show that LTV to, to invest in.I think you can get people a lot more excited than just like that average LTV, right? Cause this shows them potential of what it can be over three to five years, which is really important if you're two or three year old company. Right. And try to convince someone to invest in you showing them that lifetime value of the tour or the locals is going to be a lot more valuable than that average.00:31:46 Jacob:I mean, if you think about just as the, you know, I think it's one of the, you highlighted one of the hard parts of assessing these businesses early on, is that yeah. Your cohort, your total subscriber base is very heavily biased on like your most recent cohort, because often you're also growing, right?Like that's often, like your most recent cohort might be the size of your first five, you know? just because, and for that reason you can really have scurry looking data. but you know, if you think five years from now, mostly. Those other two groups you mentioned there they'll have turned out from most cohorts.Right? And then the only ones remaining for four years of cohorts will be these locals and these long-term retention. And then your total subscriber base is gonna look very different than it does today. Right. And yeah, I'll admit revenue. I've tried to solve this problem in the product. And we still are trying to solve this problem in the product.It's how do we like show people? Cause you're, you're dealing with a mixed population, right? And like you, you can also also run into a problem with begging the COO or like doing very, like, look, you got to invest in and say like, look, look how great my retention is. If I just ignore them. Bad users. Right?Like, let me just look at the good ones. Right. But there is something there in that. What you're talking about, Eric, that long, that very long-term view is that if these users really do retain for a long time, eventually they will be the lion's share of. Subscriber base. And that churn that we talk about, like, you know, if you're adding 1% of your total user base, the most you can experience off of that as like 1% of churn, right.Versus when you're adding half, you know, if you have 110,000 subscribers and you add 10,000 in a month, that's going to be a huge effect to your overall subscription subscription base. Right. so yeah, I think, I think, you know, we certainly have a lot to build on the tooling side. Right. And I think it goes to what you're talking about.Air. We're very early. Like, I think we've just kind of solved infrastructure, like infrastructure. I mean, I would even say kind of, cause there's a lot for us that we need to do yet. but as far as like data science and actually yeah. Being able to outside of a spreadsheet, understand this stuff. It's it's, it's not trivial.It's not trivial. All 00:33:51 Eric:It's extremely hard. And I think like, cause there's so much more you could do once you've broken those two cohorts into tourists and locals, right? Like how do you acquire the locals versus how do you acquire the tourists? Are tourists coming through like Facebook, apple store and the locals are coming from referrals.Okay. So maybe your Facebook spend, is that even worth doing the spending on right. If they're, if they're turning off after a month or two, you know, subscribers is a vanity metric, right. If they don't. All right. You can grow. We talked about this in our 2020 report. We have like this cheetah versus thoroughbred.Right. And it's really easy to show a ton of growth. And you've got all these subscribers and everything is fantastic. Right. But if those subscribers get tired and they turn off right away, you kind of probably wasted money on them. Right. Maybe you got paid back in a month, right. So you didn't lose like on the CAC spend right in here, but you're not building your business.Right. You're just gonna you're pinching pennies. 00:34:36 Jacob:But not a lot of work. Right? Like it's not actually getting translated into business 00:34:39 Eric:Exactly. So is it better to kind of focus on the product, right? Figure out what those, those, tourists are using and spend less time on the marketing side and really nailed the products like, Hey, you'll probably grow slower, right? And That's an issue. That's a risk you have to take, but maybe you can grow more efficiently, more capital efficiency.00:34:55 Jacob:Capital's free now, so that's not a 00:34:58 Eric:That's a fair point of half my fault, I'll take full responsibility for some of that. Right. 00:35:03 Jacob:I think it's interesting how this like feeds into, you know, kind of going back to targeting and ad targeting how often. Optimized Facebook campaigns on like trial conversion. And that doesn't even that doesn't, that's all your tourists and your locals. I mean, maybe some of those that never even start a trial would be cause, but there's a lot of tourists in that group that started trial right.Or convert a trial. And a lot of people are targeting off of that. Right. And so as these methods become less. Good. it will force it'll force developers to yeah. Maybe do one of these scary things actually talk to users, right? Like actually like find those locals, like go in your analytics. And I think just the thing as you were talking about, I just want to point out that, like, I don't think you necessarily need to define this off of monetization retention either could just be retention, like pure usage retention, but it could also be engagement.Yeah. I think about the way Facebook, Oriented their growth teams very early on, which was like findinGP Bullhound that connected, like that was a really key step for them in their product, was to get people to make like three or four. I forget there's some number of friends and they oriented all of their growth efforts around that.Find the thing that people do in your. Shows that they're engaged and give them opportunities to show that. And then, you know, you can use that as an indicator. Okay. Talk to those folks and actually talk to them, right? Like find out, always put something in your app that lets you reach out to them in some way.And like, have you can get on a zoom call. I've done. It's easier now in SaaS land because like, I, I, I, people I'm an app. People like I know how to talk to them, but when we were, when I was working in consumer. Phone calls were more awkward, right? It was different. You're not going to books like outside of computer land, but still like just incredibly valuable.And, and, and, and I think like, you know, if we want to talk about the way to build the way to fully realize how CSS is going to, I'm just going to go all in on your turmeric, by the way, I said, I'm going to, 00:36:57 Eric:That.00:36:57 Jacob:I'm going to push it. We're going to standardize. But 00:36:59 Eric:It's not trademark, but knock it out. 00:37:01 Jacob:All right. So to fully like, to fully realize the potential to like help problems for people.Like, I think we need to lean into this more of this model. Right. Rather than I've always kind of like had an uncomfortable relationship with how our RevenueCat fits into the like hyper fast monetization stuff. Right. I'm like, get users, check your CAC, put more money into Facebook. Right. And so, the more the industry gets away from that. The happier I am. I don't know. Like you said, maybe it doesn't go quite as fast, but I think the overall Tam will be larger. Right? If we take that approach,00:37:33 Eric:Think that's right. And, you know, I mean, I've talked to a bunch of founders that haven't raised capital. Right. And they build something that like their users love. Right. Like, so I don't know if you guys saw the deal with day one that got bought by automatic braised almost as your outside capital.Right. He built. 00:37:46 Jacob:Big fans that they won. 00:37:47 Eric:Yeah. Yeah. I was a big,I got it's an awesome business and he did that exact same thing. Right. He just listened to his users. He didn't care about vanity metrics grew really nicely. Right. And it wasn't like, you know, he's not getting tech crunch publishing, but that's fine. Right. You know, on an amazing business.And then, you know, I've got a fantastic exit out of it. So I think, I think people are really waking up to that's a very much a possibility here in the.00:38:08 David:Yeah, one thing I wanted to highlight too, in that graph that you made, and for people that are listening to this, you can go to the show notes. We'll have links to the, Eric's presentation and you can find this chart, but to visualize it00:38:25 Jacob:Page 18. it open right here. 00:38:27 David:Following along at home, the, line for the locals drops.So, you know, even, even for locals, you're going to have some turn early on, but then it essentially flat lines. and I'm sure you did that very purposely to kind of illustrate how. How long term some of these, these, this retention can end up being, and it's something we've actually been talking on the podcast about recently is that we're so early in the space.We don't even really know what, how to measure LTV. Cause you're going to have people who ended up subscribing for decades. and years and years and years, if not decades. And so, and, and then, you know, to your point about the cheetah versus thoroughbred, another great chart in the patient number, Jacob Page number00:39:16 Jacob:I 00:39:17 David:Cheetah versus thoroughbred but in that tuna versus thoroughbred, The other aspect to locals, and we're kind of touched on it earlier is that those cohorts start to stack. So when you identify this cohort, that is going to be a very long-term cohort. That's going to stay subscribed and have very low churn. You, you acquire a hundred thousand this year, and then they're still there next year.And you put a hundred thousand on top of that. And those are still there next year. And by year three, you know, you just continue to grow this pie of people who are very, very sticky in the product. And I think that's part of what. you know, what you're talking about with delinquent and Bumble and other companies is like, we're still just starting to understand even as different as this is from SaaS.We're starting to see similar dynamics as far as. Early on the churn is so high, but then you do have this really strong stickiness over the long-term that, that, that can build a really healthy business of people who really love your, your product and really are invested in it and are going to stay for a really long time.So yeah, I just wanted to point that out that, that I, I love that aspect of the chart of how flat that line is for the locals. 00:40:35 Eric:I mean, you, you can see it in your own spending patterns, right? Like how many of you guys have subscribed to Netflix or Spotify for more than five years? I bet it's a good chunk of your listeners. Right? So, I mean, if I look at my phone, right, I'm going to subscribe to all trails for the next decade, 00:40:47 Jacob:Yeah, I've got CSS. I I've started subscribing to in 20 13, 14, like as 00:40:52 Eric:Yeah. 00:40:52 Jacob:It was a thing, 00:40:53 Eric:I've, been a script user for four years and I still download audio books or download other books from like the San Francisco library. Cause I'm probably the cheapest banker of all time. but you know, I still use script 00:41:04 Jacob:It's finding margin, Eric you're finding margin. That's what that is. 00:41:07 Eric:Exactly. I've pinched counties all day.But yeah, so I mean, I, I think those tails David to your point are still being written. And so that's the whole point, right? If you use average LTV and you say, all right, well, we have 30% churn that math means you lose every user in three years, and that's just not how it works. And if with really good businesses that are delivering value, right?And so then once you convince people of that, right, the investment case becomes a very different company.00:41:30 David:And speaking of that, you, you had a great, slide on investor benchmarks. And so I wanted to get to that real quick, tell me about how you, how you thought. These different metrics. And what, and how investors think about these metrics? Because you know, we're talking about LTV and in there you have LTV to CAC of you, you know, for a really strong app, that investor would be super excited about.You're closest to. Six X versus less than three X, you start to cool off. So, yeah. Walk us through each of these metrics and kind of how you think about it, how you think investors think about it, And even how that's kind of maturing as we understand the space better. 00:42:10 Eric:Yeah. And just to note like these metrics are all different for different types of businesses, right? If you've been around for a year, these metrics are very different versus if you've been around for 10 years, right. If you're in high growth, you know, venture back, spending a lot of money, these metrics look very different than if you're a bootstrap business, you know, just trying to inch out.You know, 10% growth a year. Right. So they can be very different. And the important thing is how does the story of your business and what you're trying to accomplish tie to these metrics? Right. So that's what we spent a lot of time talking to founders about is, is what's good based on what you're trying to do.Right. So it's just how you, how do you tell your story through the metrics? but yeah, so a couple of your points on the S on the slide, we talk about like user growth rates, gross margins, LTV to CAC, churn rates, free to paid conversion rate, and then sales efficiency. and then, you know, just to talk about something different, we, we talked about LTV a little bit earlier, but maybe talking about, churn, right.And so like how quickly do people churn off? Right. And so that's, there's a couple different ways to interpret churn, right? It's one, they didn't find your product. Too. They thought it was really expensive. or if they're not turning, they really love something you've put together. Right. And they decided to pay you multiple times for that either monthly or annual.And so what we just try to do is try to tell the story of where the business is at and where it's going by looking at these metrics. And so, you know, that's why it's so important to truly understand these metrics, because if you don't understand the metrics, it's hard to tie that to the story. so we spent a lot of time with any client or even non-clients just talking about this stuff to truly understand, you know, what investors care about.And it's, you know, if someone's buying the business, they may care a very good. They may care about very different metrics for someone who's investing your business for growth, right? So someone's going to put 40%, $40 million on your balance sheet to go grow. They may be focused less on LTV to CAC now because your LTV is not formally formed, right.They don't know how good it is, but they will focus very heavily on churn, which is a reflection of how good your product is and how good you're finding consumers that love your product. Right. So those, those are metrics that they may focus. They made me more comfortable spending a lot of money in the next two years.Right. So your CACs going to look a lot worse because they watched, you acquire a lot of users to make the platform a lot better. Right. And a lot of CSS businesses, right. UGC is a, is a, is a spinoff of user activity on the post. Beautiful uploading photos reviews. They're adding new new items on, on the platform for other users to use.And so it's worth spending more money to get those people in the first two to three years because your platform becomes that much better and that much more valuable, right? So you may be willing to burn down to a, an LTV to CAC of three X or something like that in the near term, or sometimes even two extra one X, because it's a land grab for those.Once you're on their platform right now. You want to see that LTV to CAC, start to move up a little bit, right? So you start to put it to four or five, six X, LTV to CAC. So it's all about where your business is. It's each different stage, but it's important to have a story and a message around why your numbers are, what they are.00:45:03 Jacob:Of the, I have the slides up in third slide, 37 for anybody who's following along at home. all of these as a veteran SAS CSS person, every annual user growth rate, gross margin to be cash I'll clear me, sales efficiency ratio. Can you talk about that one? Cause that one's, that one's, not as a little foreign to me. 00:45:22 Eric:Yeah. It's, it's a, it's more of a metric that's come out of SAS just to be honest. So it's thinking about like, it involves like how, how many users are you gaining? It's how much revenue you're gaining versus how much money are you putting out there? So it's a little bit of a different metric. and most CSS businesses don't get to that yet because they typically don't have heavy sales team.And so we've included it because you're starting to see some of these CSS businesses really start to grow. And so how much revenue gaining versus how much revenue you're losing and how much is it costing you to do that? And so that's when you're starting to get into like the tens to $20 million of, of, marketing spend a year, it's, it's, important to understand like how efficient is that spend being, and this is the best metric 00:46:00 Jacob:We, it says called sales, but you actually throw in marketing, spend in there as well. So it's like all go to market spend 00:46:07 Eric:Yeah. Are using head count, not just like the ad dollars. right. 00:46:10 Jacob:Right. 00:46:11 Eric:It's like a fully loaded CAC number, like 00:46:13 Jacob:Your, all of your people telling Facebook what to do, 00:46:17 Eric:Yep, exactly. Exactly. 00:46:18 Jacob:Content graders, like all that stuff, right? Yeah. 00:46:20 Eric:If you've got a hundred people running around campus, right. Promoting your app. Right. Okay. How much those people cost. Right. So it's an important way to think about how much you grow. And it's a way to think about like how well can you grow a capitally efficient capital with limited amounts of capital.So it's an important one. We look at it, it's typically a later stage, right? So you've gotta be like north of 20 million of 00:46:40 Jacob:So he's going to be super high when you're small, right? Because you're, you're your. 00:46:43 Eric:Sir. Request important. 00:46:44 Jacob:People are discreet. Right. And that you can't, you're not continuous. So, and also your, your, your revenue just grows less because of like, you know, you're smaller, you're less, well-known like, you're less is momentum is things like this. 00:46:56 David:Well, we're starting to run low on time, but there's so much more I want to talk to you about, but just to hit one last thing. I also love this chart you did, of Pandora versus Spotify. It's such a. And encapsulation, really everything that we've been talking about on this podcast is to see how well Spotify revenue has compounded over the past few years versus a Pandora, which, which look was the juggernaut.You know, when, when, when Spotify started. so, so walk us through this chart. And in how and why you think, you know, Spotify was able to, to grow the way they did while Pandora really struggled. And obviously there's a ton of, you know, other business factors and execution and other things. But, but I think overall, this does speak to the power of CSS.00:47:54 Eric:Yeah. And this is, this is something we did back in 2020 when we were just trying to decide like, Hey, what's is this CSS thing real? And, and a big question you get from, from investors. And listen, I think a lot of them have stopped asking this question because the case studies are out there is why would someone pay monthly or annually for something they can get for free?And by get for free, it means listening to, or watch. Right. And so I wanted to see like, alright, graphically or like actually numbers to will people, more companies make more money by making that really hard decision and say, pay me for what I'm giving you first. I'll give you something for free and exchange every half hour, you watch two minutes of ads, right?That's a really hard question to say, because it involves you putting a lot of value in your product. And so entrepreneurs, you know, product developers have to. Is this worth money or am I giving something out to people that, Hey, they'll kind of use it if they get it for free. Right? So it's a, it's a gut check for people to say, like, did I build something that someone will buy?That's hard. That's really challenging. Ask yourself, especially if you've started with advertising. and Spotify, you know, listen, they were a small company based in the Nordics, right. Versus Pandora US-based juggernaut and, and raised a lot of money. Right. That's a tough challenge. And so they took a really tough thing and said like, Hey, we're going to get.And make people pay for our product and we're going to make it better. But the crazy thing that happens though, right, is you make so much more on a user from subscriptions than you do from average. Right on advertising. You're trying to pick up pennies per subscription on some or pennies per user on the subscriber.You're making 10, 20 bucks a month, depending maybe maybe $60 a year for a subscriber. So the amount of users you have compounds so quickly, and then if you have that heavy retention, all of a sudden, you've got these really thick layers of cashflow that come in every year, use that cashflow. You invest it back in.He invested back in product and you do it again and again and again, and all of a sudden you've got a better product. And if you have a better product, people will come to it. And if it's something that they're using daily, right. Why would you not be comfortable like paying five bucks? Right. If I think about like how much my Netflix subscription is, right.It's $11 a month or something like that. Right. Well, I probably watch 10 hours of Netflix a month, right? So I'm paying a dollar an hour to be entertained. Pretty good deal. And so, like, I think if people, people start doing that math and you start to see like how powerful that that subscription is for user versus an ad driven, it becomes pretty interesting.And so I think you've seen this case study play out over and over and over across CSS, where if you build a good enough product, you know, a 10 X product versus the free option, people will pay for it. 00:50:24 David:And Spotify does double dip as well, which is interesting is that they have a good enough free tier and people can listen for free. But they choose to spend, even though they can. And so, so Spotify is a great example of, of double-dipping with a great freemium tier, but then a good enough product in a compelling enough reason that people will pay.00:50:47 Jacob:Yeah, another dimension. I don't know the specifics of Pandora and Spotify. It's like fundraising history, but if you have like the subscriber. Subscription revenue momentum makes capital more easy to access. And you look at some of this. I think of some of the strategic stuff that Spotify has done. Like they got the Beatles on Spotify pretty early on and lets up, they spent big on partnerships and Content and stuff.And if you have momentum, if you have hard dollars, it's a lot easier to go to an investor and be like, Hey, like I want to raise X million dollar. Revenue growth. I have, like, this is very clearly a business. I can remember raising money in the pre revenue is everything era or like trying to raise money.And it was like a lot harder. Right. Cause it was just like hand waves and we're going to grow and like, and now it's like, yeah, for better or worse, you go over the curtain and you show something. Right. But the big benefit too, I think for founders, it's not just for investor, for founders. It's like, yeah, you build a great business.You're building a safety net, right? Like if you can't fundraise, it's not the end of the world. Like you have options. And I think that's part of the reason why also, I mean, now we're getting into fundraising like macro, but that's part of the reason the funding environment is crazy because businesses are sturdier than they've ever been.Like they need capital less than they've ever needed it. Right. And so like, that's why it's gotten cheaper. or, you know, evaluation's gotten higher same thing. Right. So, Anyway. Yeah. And this is a fascinating to put this. I already was not on here, which was my horse. And I was like really pulling for them.And then it gets to a whole different story of why that's not on there. But, but yeah, it's fascinating.00:52:11 David:Well, I think that's a really fun place to end the story of Spotify, one of the biggest juggernauts in the space. We're going to include in the show notes a link to the report, a link to your LinkedIn and Twitter to follow along.Anything else you want to share as we wrap up? 00:52:27 Eric:No guys. Always a pleasure to join you. One thing for your audience users, we are trying to make the GP Bullhound CSS report a resource for founders. This year, for the first time ever, we did include a link to a survey.So, if you want to contribute your data, what we'll do is aggregate everything, anonymize it, and then we'll provide back a summary to users to say, “Hey, here's your LTV to CAC. How does this compare to other founders at this stage?” We are trying to be a resource. I'll probably give you guys that link, if you don't mind. We'd love to have as many people as possible. No pressure.Of course, all of it would be anonymized. This isn't a marketing tactic for us. It's us giving back to the community. We'd love people to take a second to do the survey, but if not, don't hesitate to email me, tweet at me, hit me on LinkedIn with questions, comments, and specifically stuff We got wrong. Absolutely love to hear where we can learn.00:53:22 Jacob:Yeah. 00:53:23 Eric:Because we're not building, we're just talking about what you guys are doing.00:53:26 Jacob:By the time you print this thing, it's like, stuff's changed, right? Like it's changing so fast.00:53:32 Eric:The whole Apple thing when we were publishing was happening everyday. And I was like, this is unbelievable.00:53:36 Jacob:And wait to...00:53:36 Eric:Since July, and I have to change every minute. Yeah. I had to change a PowerPoint. You guys had to change code. So I think one was a lot harder.00:53:44 David:Well, it was great having you on, Eric, and we'll have to make this an annual thing.00:53:49 Eric:Sounds good.You're welcome.00:53:51 Jacob:Yeah, we'll see you next year. 00:53:52 David:See you in 2022.00:53:54 Eric:All right. Thanks David. Thanks Jacob.

The Passionistas Project Podcast
Gabrielle Claiborne: Creating Environments of Belonging Worldwide

The Passionistas Project Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 27, 2021 37:53


Gabrielle Claiborne is Co-Founder and CEO of Transformation Journeys Worldwide, a cutting-edge transgender-focused inclusion training and consulting firm. Her passion is teaching businesses, religious and civic organizations, schools, educational institutions, healthcare providers and municipalities what they need to know to create an environment of belonging for transgender, gender nonconforming and non-binary patients, customers, colleagues, congregants and kids. At Transformation Journeys Worldwide they believe that, when all people are respected and empowered, we all win — and our world becomes a better place. Learn more about Transformation Journeys Worldwide. Learn more about The Passionistas Project. Full Transcript: Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking with Gabrielle Claiborne. Her company Transformation Journeys Worldwide is a cutting edge, transgender focused inclusion, training, and consulting. Her passion is teaching businesses, religious and civic organizations, schools, and educational institutions, healthcare providers, and municipalities, what they need to know to create an environment of belonging for transgender, gender nonconforming and non-binary patients, customers, colleagues, congregants, and kids at transformation, journeys, worldwide. They believe that when all people are respected and empowered, we all win and our world becomes a better place. So please welcome to the show. Gabrielle Claiborne. Gabrielle: Thank you so much for having me. It's such a joy to be with you today. Passionistas: Well, we can't wait to share your story with our listeners and to have this conversation, we've been very excited for it. So what would you say is the one thing you're most passionate about Gabrielle: Most passionate about is making sure that when I wake up in the morning that that I lean into that day with, with every fiber of my being and that I show up and the, and the best way that I can show up in integrity with who I know myself to be authentically, hopefully, and given the opportunity to inspire others, to live their highest, uh, as their highest and best self. That is one thing that I try to do every time I wake up and. Passionistas: Tell us how you help other people do that through your company, Transformation Journeys Worldwide, and the path to starting that. Gabrielle: Early on in my transition. I have always felt purposeful as an individual in, early on in my transition. I wanted to find what was mine to do. And so, uh, as I, uh, as I began exploring, you know, what was mine to do, I actually started seeing a life coach and she. Taught me how to live out of my heart space. And when I started living out in my heart space, I realized that I did not have to find what was mine to do. The more that I showed up authentically and embracing my truth of who I was. Opportunities and doors opened up for me and allowed me to step into new spaces that allowed me to show up more, authentically, more powerfully owning my own voice. And as a result of that seven years ago, uh, my business partner and I coped a transgender inclusion and training from transformation journeys worldwide. So today we help a myriad of organizations, whether it's Fortune 100, 500 companies, whether it's mental or medical health care providers, whether it's educational institutions, spiritual communities, and even municipalities on their journey of transforming their environments into fully inclusive cultures for transgender nonconforming and non-binary individuals. And this has been a labor of love for me in many ways. I guess you could say that I live my work as so to speak. You know, I wake up every morning, not really feeling like I'm going to work because I'm showing up advocating for my trans gender nonconforming and non-binary siblings. And, uh, it just, it gives me a great joy to know that every day that I, that I stepped into this world, that I'm living a purposeful life and I'm hopefully making it possible for someone who is coming behind me and their own journey of authenticity to be a little easier. So we're helping them. These cultures, uh, create these inclusive spaces for these individuals to show up so that they can live authentically in these spaces. So I find great joy and, and a world-changing purpose as a result of that, Passionistas: Talk a little bit about why it's important to give these organizations the tools that they need and that you are offering so that they can create that respectful space for all gender identities and expressions. Gabrielle: Well, the reason it's important is because, uh, this is a growing demographic, uh, just a couple of months. Uh, the Williams Institute came out with a statistic that in the U S there are 1.2 million non-binary individuals. And in 2017, a Harris bowl revealed a statistic that 12% of millennials identify as some form of trans or non-binary. So this is one of the business case reasons for why organizations are really leaning into this conversation. Understanding. What they need to do in order to be an employer of choice for this demographic. So what they're understanding is that this journey of creating this inclusive culture is not only does it not only require a partial cultural competency of their employees. Uh, the employees, excuse me, but it also requires them to look at their organizational cultural competency. So in our trainings, we offer individuals, his strategies and suggestions on how to interact respectfully. With this demographic, understanding how to navigate the conversation around pronouns respectfully, right? Because we can no longer make assumptions around, you know, what pronoun and individual uses, especially those individuals who identify as some form of gender nonconforming or non-binary who uses they, them or theirs, or even ze/hir ze/zir pronouns as their personal pronouns. We also share strategies with them on how to push back on offensive jokes and comments and quality, why this is important for not only the trans and gender nonconforming or non-binary individual in the workplace, but also for those colleagues who may have. TGGNCNB children or, um, family members. Right? So these are some of the reasons why organizations are really leaning into this conversation and, you know, the good thing, the thing that we help our audiences understand is that. Sometimes it requires getting comfortable with being uncomfortable in the spirit of learning to do better. And the good news is, is there a lot of organizations that are really wanting to be intentional in creating, having spaces for these crisis conversations and creating these inclusive cultures? So they're taking it to the next level and looking at things like the policy. There are restrooms, how they connect not only within the four walls of their organization, but how they're showing up outside of their organization through their supplier diversity initiatives, through their, uh, involvement and local LGBTQ, uh, communities like the LGBTQ chamber of commerce or their local pride. So there's a lot of moving parts and pieces. That requires an organization to create this culture. And it is a journey. It is not a destination. And that's one thing. These organizations are really recognizing. Passionistas: What does it mean to you to be able to have this kind of impact on all these different types of organizations and beyond into the culture, beyond their work? Gabrielle: I appreciate you bringing that question up because I'll never forget the first time. That Gabrielle showed up in corporate America, fully aligned, right? I'll never forget sitting in the lobby of our, one of our first clients. And I looked at my business partner. We were waiting on our, our client to come out and greet us. And I looked at her and I said, Linda, do you realize what is just about to happen? We, I am. We are show up in December. Fully authentic for the very first time. And I reflect back over that moment because it was a surreal experience for me. And it's a surreal experience knowing that not only I experienced that, but other individuals have the opportunity to show up in spaces within these organizations who were doing the work to have that same experience. And to know that your. You're moving the needle every time you're showing up, it just, it does my heart. Good to know that I am leaving a legacy for folks that hopefully have a path that is a little easier than the path that I had to navigate. So, you know, again, I wake up every morning feeling like I'm not going to work. I've just feel like that I'm showing up advocating for the. Who needed to be advocated for. So it's just a great joy. And you know, when we have. You know, now that we're seven years into our iteration as a business. Now we're having folks reach out to us as opposed to us reaching out and marketing our services to prospective clients. And knowing that these folks are actually finding us and saying, Hey, we heard you do this work. We want to start the conversation, but we don't know where to start. Can you help us knowing that they're reaching out to us and they're finding us wanting to have these conversations. It just really makes. The work that we're doing all the more rewarding. Passionistas: You said that the transgender community and the nonbinary communities or the demographic is growing. So is the opportunity for businesses like this also growing, do you find that there are more companies reaching out to you and, and what are they asking for? Why do they come to you? Is there a specific reason or incident that makes them reach out to you? Gabrielle: They're recognizing that in order for them to be an employer of choice, that they have to get over. And here's the thing, you know, we all know that the, the workplace demographic is changing. I mean, just in three or four years, millennials will make up 75% of the workforce. And there was a recent pew research poll that, uh, in 2018 that indicated that while millennials personally knew someone, 25% of millennials personally knew someone who uses gender neutral pronouns, Gen Z years, 36% of Gen Z years personally knew someone. Who was, who uses gender neutral pronouns or they, them and theirs as their pronouns. So you can see with the, uh, with the, the advancement of generations, these generations are becoming more gender inclusive. So in order for them to set themselves up as that employer of choice and to attract and retain that talent and the workplace. They're really recognizing the need to get on board and they are doing just that. And so when they approach us, they're, you know, a lot of times our clients don't know what they don't know, so we kind of help them understand, you know, first of all, when we have. That first call with them where we have a disclosure conversation of just kind of where you are on your own journey of understanding gender diversity. We kind of understand from that perspective, how to guide them of where to start, whether it's in a Trans 101 or whether it's a more focused training for HR talent acquisition, or even it, uh, so it depends on where they are meeting them where they are is. But, uh, making sure that they understand, and this is the one thing that we tried to impress on our clients is that this is not just a 60 or 90 minute conversation. This is a commitment to a journey. You know, while you may have a 90 minute one-on-one training with your. There's much more work to do. So there are other organizations like my, my company who are actually working with organizations, setting them up for success or these gender diverse demographics. Passionistas: And so do you work with companies long-term? Do you help them set up kind of ongoing programs to continue the education? Gabrielle: We do all the above. Yes. And you know, we meet a client where they are, by the way, to, to your earlier question. Oftentimes clients reach out to us when someone is transitioning in the workplace. Th this is perhaps their first gender diverse individual who is showing up authentically in the workplace. And so consequently, they want to make sure that they're doing the right thing, not only for this employee, but for all the other employees and colleagues around this individual. So making sure that this is oftentimes. You know, how, why clients are reaching out to us. You know, when they're wanting to wanting support, we're doing a 90 minute one-on-one training with clients. We are actually supporting clients throughout their entire journey of creating inclusive culture for gender diversity individuals, which, uh, requires us to look at training specific trainings. Like I mentioned earlier for HR managers, you know, how does a manager, uh, support. Uh, gender diverse individual on their team, whether they are hired. Or whether that individual transitions on their team, how does a manager support that individual as well as manage, you know, the other members of that team, you know, we offer support for, uh, facility individuals who are creating these, this. All gender restrooms and workplaces understanding, you know, steps that you need to take in order to make them work for not only trans individuals that identify as binary women or men, but also non-binary individuals who identify as some form of male or female or a combination of both. So, uh, it is a journey and we just recently had a client of ours ups. You actually rolled out a, uh, initiative around their dress code policy, making it inclusive for their non-binary individuals. And ups has almost 500,000 employees globally. So we were very instrumental in Hedland helping that client roll out that, uh, inclusive, uh, dress code policy. So that was. We, we felt like that was a huge win for us. So again, meeting our clients where they are and supporting them as their needs come up, that they need support in. Passionistas: So how can people find a Transformation Journeys Worldwide and what can they expect when they approach. Gabrielle: I am all over the social medias. I'm on a LinkedIn. I'm on Twitter. I'm on Facebook. I'm on Instagram. Our website is Transformation Journeys, ww.com. And I'll also let the audience know that we have a wonderful resource. For you to use as a learning tool for you, wherever you are on your journey of understanding and interacting respectfully with gender diverse individuals, we have a lot of, uh, terms and definitions. We have a lot of videos and it's specific for a specific market. So again, we're trying to meet our partners, our prospective clients, where are they? So that they can see themselves in our work and a great way to reach out to us. You can go to our contact page on our website, send us an email, and we will be, uh, responsive to that, uh, inquiry and get back with you. And we can set up a call to talk about next steps. Passionistas: You're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Gabrielle Claiborne. To learn more about her work, visit Transformation Journeys ww.com. If you're enjoying this interview and would like to help us to continue creating inspiring content, please consider becoming a patron by visiting the Passionistas Project dot com backslash Podcast and clicking on the patron button. Even $1 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions. Now here's more of our interview with Gabrielle. You've talked a little bit about living authentically. So why is that so important and how has living authentically transformed your life personally? Gabrielle: I think I have to go back a little bit to answer that question. And I would start at when I was eight years old or even a little younger, you know, I, when I was a young child that I knew that there was something different about. You know, I grew up in a very conservative environment. My daddy is a Pentecostal preacher. I'm actually a fourth generation Pentecostal preacher's kid. So, and this was long before the days of the internet. So I didn't have the language to understand, you know, what was going on inside of me. So consequently, I did what culture expects of a cisgender male to do. I got married to a beautiful. We had three amazing children. I had a very successful career owning multiple businesses in the construction industry, and I was a very prominently. And our church, a large church here in the Atlanta area, Atlanta, Georgia area. And so by all outward appearances, you know, I had life by the tail, but the reality was I was living a life of turmoil because of this internal gender dilemma, which I still had no words to describe. I was 45 years old. I accidentally stumbled across a website showing pictures of trans women. And when I saw these images immediately, That's me. So I spent the next five years doing online research, living between the exhilaration of knowing that's me and the despair of thinking. I can never live my life as a woman that would change my world, turn my world upside down. But after going through all of this turmoil, I finally decided to get help. And it was been in my online research. I found a woman. By the name of Ramona who actually made a living, dressing, biological males as women. Now, this just goes to show you that you can find anything on the internet if you're looking for it. Well, I finally mustered the courage to make an appointment with her. On the day of the appointment, Anzaldua, driving to her home, I was just, I was a nervous wreck, but as soon as she, as soon as she greeted me at her door and ushered me upstairs to her dressing salon, I thought I had died and gone to the cabin. And so she spent the night. You hours dressing me head to toe in my true feminine expression with the clothes, the heels, the wig, the makeup, the jewelry, this says stories. And when she got done, she walked away and I saw myself in the mirror for the very first time I was 45. I was 49 years old and meeting myself for the very first time. And it was in a. That's me. So I answered that question by saying, because I live so long in authentically, I knew, and there were a number of invitations in my life that invited me to get honest with what my heart was saying about who I was as a. Long ago, even though I met myself, you know, 40 years later after living an authentic wide. And so meeting myself the very first time, set me on the course of finding what was mine to do. And it turned my life upside down with my family, with my children, with my parents and sister who by the way, have chosen not to have any contact with me since coming out 11 years. Uh, with my vocation, with my spiritual community. So understanding these perceived risk and pain that I might experience, I realize over the course of the last year or last 11 years, that they pale in comparison to live in an inauthentic life and waking up at the end of the biolife and looking back and saying, did I do all I could do? To be in integrity with who I was created to be. So I've learned that the power of authenticity sets us up for success. Yes. The path to authenticity is not a straight line and yes, it has some bumps and difficulties along the way. But the view on the other side of authenticity is like, no, So Passionistas: Talk a little bit about those bumps. Like give, give some advice to someone who might be contemplating going through this. Not quite sure the steps to take and, and the, and the biggest stumbling block perhaps is that reaction from family and friends. And do you have any advice for people going through that? Gabrielle: First responses by my book. Embrace Your Truth the Journey of Authenticity uh, which came out last year, it is a memoir meets self-help book, uh, which is, uh, uh, a capitulation of my personal transition story. But it's also an invitation to an individ, to those individuals who are looking to embrace an aspect of their own authentic authenticity, whatever that looks. For the, you know, it just so happens that one aspect of my authenticity authenticity is my gender identity. That I am a transgender woman, but I am so much more than just a transgender woman. So the book was written for also the larger audience. But some of the things that I had to learn along the way was I talk about in chapter two, the importance of building a support system, because anytime we undertake a significant aspect of our truth, stepping into our truth a lot of time, that's a lot of times that step or those subsequent steps are going to impact those around us. So it's important to understand that this is not a journey to be traveled. So it's important to build that support system around you. That is going to be there when you can't get out of bed. I remember nights after night, waking up with my pillow drenched with my tears because of the reaction that my family was having. You know, towards my transition and learning, how do I navigate that to be in integrity with who I know myself to be, and at the same time, honor them and honor their journey of where they're trapping and where they are. Right? So this support system is crucial to be able to, to be, be there for you as you're navigating that. Another thing I learned was to honor the voice of my heart. You know, as I was growing up, I was taught to not pay attention to your, your intuition or your feelings because they will mislead you. Oh my goodness. Was I misled because as I've learned over the course of my journey of embracing my true. That it was actually my heart talking to me through, you know, my drains through my bodily symptoms, through my intuitions, our hearts, talk to us in five languages and understanding that I should pay attention to those things in order to live my most authentic life and understanding how to do that. I that's why I had to go see that live coach for a year. And she told me. She taught me how to get out of my head and into my heart and listen to my heart. And what I realized and learned over the course of that year was that I can do that and that my heart will not mislead me. I'll also learn the importance of holding space for those who are in my life and allow them to travel their journeys around. Whatever you don't mind journey of authenticity looks like for me and how it implicates them, right. Or the impacts that it has on them. Because you know, a lot, often times, a lot of friends who are embarking on a similar journey that I've traveled the last 11 years, they asked me say, Gabrielle, how did you navigate this with your family, your spouse and your kids. And I tried. Uh, support them and help them understand that even though this is our journey, it's also their journey as well. And you can't expect them to turn on a dime. You know, when I saw myself for the very first time, met myself in the mirror, it would have been unreasonable for me to then approach my family and say, here I am, this is the new me and expect them to welcome me with open arms. And in fact, it took me two years. Before I actually approached all of my family members and let them know who I was and tenants it's, it's been the last nine years of navigating those journeys with him, holding space for them, allowing them to grieve the loss of the person that they thought they were. Right. And then redefining what it looks like moving forward. You know, one of the, one of the things that we have realized my family speaking, speaking of my children and my ex-spouse, one of the things that we've had learned navigate is, you know, the special rec, uh, dates of recognition that we recognized here in the U S like father's day, you know, how do we celebrate father's day down? Do you, are you still are. Well, what does that work? What does that look like for you? So it's having those courageous conversations often difficult, oftentimes difficult conversations with your kids, understanding that you still want to be there for them as their parent, but finding a place, finding a space, finding a, um, a resolution that works for you. And works for them. So those are just a few things that I've learned over the course of my journey. Uh, I'll share one other bit of information with the audience and that is, I encourage you to also check out my Ted talk, building your courage muscles, because in that Ted talk, I'll talk about three things that we all have to do, regardless of what truth we're trying to unearth within. To step more into our authenticity. And the one is listening to your heart. As I mentioned previously, the other one is not, not necessarily needing to have a roadmap before you take that first courageous step. I know when I came out, I had to listen to my heart and I, it wasn't until I took that first courageous. That I learned what my second and third and fourth steps were. It was that first step that informed those steps. And it, it was after taking that courageous step, that those second, third and fourth steps became a little easier. And as I took those steps, I became, I became more courageous and bold and stepping into those steps. And also the final thing is understanding that, you know, the journey of authenticity is not a destination. The journey of authenticity is just that it's a journey. And we, every day, how we show up today determines our tomorrow. And so it's important to live in the moment, learn what we have to live today, so that as we approach tomorrow, we're setting ourselves up for success. Passionistas: You've been on this journey for 11 years, but in writing the book, was there something that you discovered about yourself from that process that surprised you? Gabrielle: That book has been the most vulnerable piece of work that I've done to date because I laid it all on the line. I, I shared with the reader, the things that, you know, I made mistakes with in my past. And come to terms with those things. I mean, you know, over the course of my journey, I've, I've learned the importance of recognizing and reframing those failures, those disappointments as invitations, as opposed to things that, that I'm not good enough or that I'm, you know, that I should be guilt, uh, shameful for. Right. Uh, but writing the book invited me. Deal a little bit more with forgiving myself and working through that grief process, you know, being gentle with myself. And I will tell you, as I wrote. Aspects parts of this book, parts of the book, there were these feelings that came up again, and I had to, I had to grieve things. I had to go through the forgiveness process and kid, I thought I was done with this. All. I had to learn that there was more work to do. So yeah, writing this book, uh, has been the most vulnerable. Way that I've shown up, but this is one thing I've also learned that it was, it was also a way that I could, that I could show myself and honor, honor, may four, or having navigated those difficult moments in my life. And to, to say, you know, If I can do that, then there's other things that I'm ultimately going to face down the road that I'm going to have to navigate. But I, you know, part, part of writing the book allowed me to build those milestones in my life that I can look back to what I needed courage and, and encouragement and think, well, have I did there, if I made it to there, I can keep moving forward. I can take that next step. So. It is a vulnerable piece of work, but I feel like the more we're vulnerable, I think that invites other folks to be vulnerable with themselves as well. Passionistas: How can we as allies best support the LGBTQ plus community? Gabrielle: Well, a couple of things that you can do is you can educate yourself. The good thing is that there are so many great resources out on the internet right now. That you can, you can invest in your own education. You know, oftentimes I think organizations and individuals make the mistake of relying on their trans friends, their trans family members, their trans colleagues to educate them, but not every trans gender nonconforming. And non-binary individual wants to bear the burden of educating you as an ally. We are, we're all about supporting you in your. But we're also wanting you to take the initiative, uh, and the responsibility, right. To do your own work. And when you do your own work, when you take that initiative to do your own work, you're going to learn a lot. That's why I shared our resources page in the earlier conversation, because it's a great resource that you can use to educate yourself. Another thing that you can do is understand how to use pronouns. You know, like I said, We can automate assumptions about what pronoun an individual uses, especially in our new virtual world, right? If we're on a call with a gender diverse individual and we're not identifying no pronouns, or we're not giving them the opportunity to identify their pronouns, especially in online, your individual that uses . We're not acknowledging them for who they are. So being intentional and creating these spaces to use your, you know, where you can use your pronouns. It goes a long way and normalizing our experience and helping us feel like not only are we safe, but this is a space where we can belong your pronouns in your email signature. If you have bios on your website, but your pronouns there as well. When you introduce yourself, How are you introducing yourself? How do you navigate that conversation with your gender diverse brand family member colleague? And what we recommend is, you know, when you introduce yourself, you say, hi, my name is Gabrielle and my pronouns. Are she her about you? But the, how about you does, is it sends a message to the person that you're talking with. That one, you understand the importance of pronouns and. Did you want to connect with them in a respectful way, and you're not placing the burden on them to educate you on the importance of pronouns, you know? And when, when you start doing this and you know, don't think that you won't make a mistake because the question is not. If it's, when we're kind of all make mistakes in the spirit of learning to do better. And if you make a mistake, you simply apologize. You don't make a big deal about it. You say, look, I'm just. I'm committed. I'm still learning. I'm committed to do better and do better. You know, as trans people, we understand that when someone innocently miss pronouns or mis-genders us and the spirit of learning to do better, as opposed to when someone does it deliberately, you know, another thing that you can do as allies is understand, understand, understand why it's important, not to deadname. Deadnaming us is using our pre-transition name. This is fair. This is considered very disrespectful by trans people. Another thing you can do is afford curious questions about anatomy or surgeries. You know, our anatomy has nothing to do with our identity. There are completely different. It doesn't define who we are as people. And the same thing was surgeries. You know, not all trans gender non-conforming and non-binary individuals may elect to pursue all aspects of physical transitions. One, it may not be their personal journey and two, they may not have the resources to pursue all of these aspects of physical transition. So understand and avoid use, asking questions. Those curious questions goes a long way and showing respect. And those are just a few things that you. Passionistas: So what's your dream for the TGNCNB community? Gabrielle: Oh, my goodness. Monitoring for my community is just what I said earlier is for folks to recognize that we have more in common than not that we are just another expression of the human experience, that our gender identity is just one aspect of all that we bring. So the table of all that we bring to the conversation of all that we bring to a relationship of all that we bring to a workplace. Right? We have, we are, we are qualified individuals. We are competent individuals. And if you give us a chance, we will show you that we can, we can set your organization of. Yeah, we can set yourself your organization up for success. We can create, we can help create an inclusive environment in your organization that improves innovation that improves your collaboration right. And ultimately improves your bottom line, but it starts getting comfortable with getting uncomfortable and having those courageous conversations and re and really understanding. You know who we are as human beings, we are first human beings and then all of the other intersections that we bring, then those that show up. Passionistas: Thanks for listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Gabrielle Clayborne, to learn more about her work, visit Transformation Journeys, Ww.com. Please visit the Passionistas Project dot com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions. Get a free mystery box with a one-year subscription with the code Fall Mystery, and be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests. Until next time stay well and stay passionate.

South Sudan In Focus  - Voice of America
South Sudan in Focus - October 26, 2021

South Sudan In Focus - Voice of America

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 26, 2021 30:00


Sudan's Ambassador to the U-S Nureldin Satti says he rejects the military takeover of his country's power-sharing government and will continue to serve as the Sudanese ambassador to the U-S; Protests against Sudan's Monday military takeover continue in several Sudanese towns and cities including the capital Khartoum where young men have erected barricades and are burning tires on streets; Health workers at Bor state hospital are threatening to go on strike over unpaid incentives and poor working conditions

Whitestone Podcast
Finance Focus #12 Stock Markets & Participatory Magic

Whitestone Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 26, 2021 12:45


Have you experienced the participatory magic of stock markets, where you essentially hire an up-and-coming CEO or savvy billionaire to increase your investment? Well, that's a privilege that only the wealthy could do for centuries, yet many ordinary Americans do it all the time nowadays. Join Kevin and renew your mind as he unpacks the participatory magic of stock markets! // Download this episode's Application & Action questions and PDF transcript at whitestone.org.

[Abridged] Presidential Histories
21.) Chester A. Arthur 1881-1885

[Abridged] Presidential Histories

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 25, 2021 51:18


Chester A. Arthur is the most corrupt politician to ever become president. For years, he made a fortune making sure enough money disappeared from the New York City customs house to keep his patron in power. When a backroom deal made him vice president and an assassin's bullet ended James Garfield's presidency and began Arthur's, the nation despaired. But then he got an unexpected letter. One woman - a woman he'd never met - believed he was capable of change. Could Arthur complete the most unexpected transformation in presidential history? Or was American democracy about to be sold to the highest bidder?Follow along as Arthur goes from inspiring Civil Rights lawyer to not-so-inspiring corrupt political crony, to Vice President, to the White House and ponder the age old question - can people change?Bibliography1. The Unexpected President: The Life and Times of Chester A. Arthur – Scott S. Greenberger2. Destiny of the Republic – Candice Millard3. Rutherford B. Hayes – Hans. L. Trefousse4. Grover Cleveland – Henry F. Graff5. T.R. the last Romantic – H.R. BrandsSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/AbridgedPresidentialHistories)

Weekend Roundup
Weekend Roundup 10/22

Weekend Roundup

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 22, 2021 40:00


On the CBS News "Weekend Roundup" with host Allison Keyes; this week, the CDC recommended booster shots for those who have taken the Moderna or Johnson and Johnson Covid19 vaccines. White House Chief Medical Advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci says although people should stick with the shot they got in the first place, it is safe to mix and match. We'll hear from MedStar Health's Dr. Ruth Kanthula, a pediatric infectious disease specialist, who says some will not understand how that works. The American Medical Association says there is another public health crisis -- the short supply of life-saving drugs. CBS's Mark Strassmann reports. Between April and June of this year, Facebook removed 1-point-7 billion fake accounts, some using real people's names and photos without their knowledge. CBS's Dr. Tara Narula tells us scammers are causing big problems for people, including someone very close to her. In our "More Perfect Union" series, CBS's Omar Villafranca introduces us to an Illinois man who is on a mission to learn what unites Americans -- by walking across six states. On this week's Kaleidoscope, a discussion about the use of police force against children. An investigation by the Associated Press, with the help of the Accountable Now initiative, found that children as young as six have been treated harshly by police, which included incidents from 25 police departments in 17 states. Allison is joined by Kristin Henning from the Juvenile Justice Clinic and Initiative at Georgetown Law School. Henning is also author of the book, "The Rage of Innocence." A U-S collector dropped nearly 8-million bucks on the world's largest triceratops skeleton. CBS's Ian Lee with more. Reporter Alex Jensen has a look at the popularity of the Netflix show "Squid Game" and the real life issues it tackles. In Honolulu, the ACLU says police and the public school system discriminated against a 10-year-old Black student by handcuffing and arresting the girl over what it calls a "run of the mill" dispute between children. Reporter Jolanie Martinez with the latest. Officials in Los Angeles are hoping a tiny new village will help with the city's homeless population. CBS's Anthony Pura tells us more. In Indianapolis, Indiana, reporter Eric Graves tells us there's hope in a food desert on the city's Northeast side. If you haven't gone shopping for your Halloween costume, CBS's Naomi Ruchim explains why you need to get a move on. Finally, New Jersey art teacher Timothy Carr has built a following on TikTok by transforming into superheroes like Thor, Wolverine, and the Black Panther, to engage his students. He talks to Allison about how he got started.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Solarpreneur
How to be Ultra Consistent Without Working More Hours - Christian Moroni

The Solarpreneur

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 22, 2021 59:36


Visit Solciety.co now!Speaker 1 (00:03):Welcome to the Solarpreneur podcast, where we teach you to take your solar business to the next level. My name is Taylor Armstrong and I went from $50 in my bank account and struggling for groceries to closing 150 deals in a year and cracking the code on why sales reps fail. I teach you to avoid the mistakes I made and bringing the top solar dogs, the industry to let you in on the secrets of generating more leads, falling up like a pro and closing more deals. What is a Solarpreneur you might ask a Solarpreneur is a new breed of solar pro that is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve mastery and you are about to become one.Speaker 2 (00:41):What's happening. Solarpreneurs. We're back with another episode in this time we have the Brazilian master himself, my man Christian coming on the show. So we got Christian Maru and I thanks for coming on the show with us today, Christian.Speaker 3 (00:56):Oh man. Thanks for having me. I'm I'm super excited actually. It's my very first time speaking in public like this and, uh, I'm super stoked to be, to be here on the show.Speaker 2 (01:08):Yeah, well it's well-deserved because, um, if you haven't seen, if you haven't followed Christian yet, he's been just one of the most consistent like solar sales reps. I've seen, he's consistently hitting big numbers. Um, and we're going to talk about all that today. So he is the number one rep at affluent, right? Is it fluent? Yup. Okay, cool. Making sure I got the name right. And yeah, been doing awesome. And you're soon to start up an office there in Houston. You're telling me here in what 3, 3, 4 months, something like that. You're going to go down there. Yes.Speaker 3 (01:42):Yes. I started, I started with flowing on May 7th and I, after a month and a half, they say, Hey, I feel like you got a lot of potential. There wants to, to expand the company. And they showed me a few places and I chose Houston to be the place to go. Right.Speaker 2 (02:02):Well, my cousins down in Houston, so maybe I'll, uh, he just bought a house down there. So I'd love to get him sold. He's point, he's pulling this, you know, he's moving, he might move in a couple of years, crap. SoSpeaker 3 (02:15):I know how to handle that.Speaker 2 (02:20):I'm his cousin. So I can't like tell him to cut the crap as much, but if I send you to his door, I know you'll get him taken care of.Speaker 3 (02:27):Yeah. I can smell the blood man. I can smell blood from far away.Speaker 2 (02:32):I better watch out. Cause now all my Houston podcast listeners that I heard that are going to be like hitting me up. So put, put a target on his back, but no, that's a awesome man. And so yeah, I mean, again, you've been having a ton of results being super consistent and we're going to get into all that. But do you want to tell us a little bit of your background, Christian? I'm like, I don't know what, how you got started in knocking doors and um, just how you got in the store and everything.Speaker 3 (03:01):Sure. My brother. Um, so on September 1st it tells an 18. That's when I got that's exactly when I got here in this country. So actually tomorrow, I guess it's going to be three years. Hasn't even been three years and just like a lot of international people. And I can relate to a lot of people from my country and from different places and different backgrounds when they get here, they, they get the cleaning jobs. So that's what I was doing. I was cleaning cars, uh, in a dealership. And then we started cleaning offices and Jean, Jean places at night and stuff like that. And it just, you know, I wasn't super happy cause I was working during the day and I was working at night and working multiple jobs and, and I was like, I've done sales in Brazil. Let's put the way I felt like I was successful. My company was doing well. I was running my company for seven years in the security industry. And that's how I started knocking doors. Actually I was knocking doors in Brazil for my, for my own company. Uh,Speaker 2 (04:11):Yeah, like singularity system, like style.Speaker 3 (04:15):Yeah, something like that. And also like pepper spray, like everything that you can have to defend yourself in a situation of risk, just because in my country, actually we're not allowed to have guns and firearms or anything like that. So happen to says you better know some martial arts jujitsu, you know, you better, you better be ready because we just not allowed to have anything. So I realized that here in the U S people could have some stuff. So it just decided to, uh, to do that in Brazil. So instead of knocking doors to talk to homeowners, I was knocking on doors of the police departments. So I'll go to every single city drive to us, small town or anything like that and say, Hey, how do you guys like your equipment? How do you guys like the boots? The Cavilers, the helmets, everything, you know, the gun holsters, like all sort of equipment that law enforcement have. That's what I was doing. I was just the main distributor say. Okay. Okay. And then he was just knocking on doors, visiting police departments. And to be Frank, you gotta be ballsy to talk to this guy.Speaker 2 (05:32):Yeah, that's crazy. That's yeah. It's funny. I'm uh, I'm taking a Brazilian jujitsu class. Uh, right now I just took my third class the other day. I'm beat up, man. Probably can't see on the camera, but I'm, uh, got bruises all over the place. So guys,Speaker 3 (05:50):I can, I can see, I can see the bruises. I did it for a little bit, but I'm more of a couple era. I don't know if haven't heard of martial arts and it's pretty, pretty cool as well. So yeah, that's kind of how I started in dental. I had this cleaning jobs kind of hated. And then I got into sales. I started with T-Mobile and then I, uh, I got a manager position and I was like, okay, that's a little better. What? I realized that I was working in a store and there was no more room for growth because other than that, I was just, I don't know, maybe I should open my own store, but if I do want to do that, that's like 500,000. Uh, and I was like, yeah, I felt like there was no more room for growth and I would have to wait for people. So what I started to do, I started to approach people outside the stores say, Hey, who do you guys use for the phone? And I started like approaching people. And I got a notice saying, Hey, you can do that. You can do that. You got to wait for people to get inside the store. Uh, and that's when I realized that, you know what? I don't want to do diet because even though I was so out of 124 people, I was number one in sales for months and months and months in a row.Speaker 3 (07:18):And by doing that, it's still even being number one. I felt like I couldn't grow anymore anymore. Uh, I, I will have to be just passive and waiting for people. And I was like, no, I want to do something where I can run my own paycheck. So I recruited myself, nobody actually recruited him, recruiting me. I started, I got into the door to door tribe, Facebook group and say, Hey guys, I want to do sales, hit me up.Speaker 2 (07:47):Like, man, I wish I would've seen that post. It probably got, probably got 500 messages.Speaker 3 (07:54):Oh my, oh my. So I sat down with every single pass, controlling the book and I talked to Santiago and Sentire said, Hey, if you just want to learn the job past control is a good way to start. And then if your career, maybe you should look into solar. So I did, I talked to flow in and I talked to a pest control company, decided the past was for me because a lot of my friends that were doing past. So I did pass for a first summer, three months in the summer, broke my arm and yeah, I was arm wrestling. And actually I was I'm wrestling my manager for over 20 bucksSpeaker 2 (08:37):InSpeaker 3 (08:37):An arm wrestling. Yeah. I can send the video so you can post on your page later.Speaker 2 (08:42):Yeah. We'll have to put that. It's like a company in the podcast. That's crazy.Speaker 3 (08:47):Yeah. So I was having, I was having a really good summer, uh, number one, rookie for the company. Um, three months in the summer had like 400 counts. Uh, I was on a pace to just 600, but because it was, I broke my arm with three months and I went back. I had a recovery and then summer was over. So all of the guys, they just came back home and I talked to the owners and say, Hey, I have a goal to do 600 accounts. My very first summer, would you guys let me come back? And then everybody was gone and I flew back to Texas and I, I started working again doing passive control by myself. That was pretty much it. Oh yeah. All of the boys that were home, it was just the owners and myself. So I did go back sold for a little bit. And then the company say, Hey, you know what, you're the only one here. I don't feel like too good choice to have just you here. And then they just sent me home. Wow.Speaker 2 (09:55):Holy cow. Some extreme dries. That's awesome.Speaker 3 (09:59):Yeah. It's just because I had a goal. So something that I want to share, if you'll let me with the, with the people, with the audience, it's just that instead of goals, to be Frank, I had more of a commitment. So I, every time when you, when you see the results that you can get, I would say it's always good to reevaluate your goals because if I didn't reevaluate myself and didn't compare, I was just trying to compare myself to my very best version of myself. I feel like a lot of times we just compare ourselves to other people and that, that can be tricky, you know, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. That can be tricky. So if I, if I take to my original goal, I want it, man. I want it to do 150 pest control accounts. And I sold a hundred my first month. Like, uh, yeah. I was in the country before, like a year, a year, a little over a year. So my English was still, I still have a lot to learn, but where my English was super, super broken, but I just, you know what, sales it's, what's going to pay the most money. So I got, I got a better, I better figure it out.Speaker 2 (11:18):Yeah. That's incredible. So I got to ask, why did you, uh, what brought you out to like the U S in the first place? Why'd you come here? Is that for school or were you just thinking you're going to work or when did you come out?Speaker 3 (11:31):Awesome. That's a great question. So BYU has always been a dream for like all of the LDS families out there in Brazil. Like people just see like, oh my gosh. Like the us in general is just to like live in the dream, you know? And then my wife, she was doing manufacturing engineering in Brazil and she, Hey, what if we go to the U S and I could just go to BYU? And I was like, okay, I support you. And we got here together. And that was initially was for school, you know? And yeah, she was still going to school and work.Speaker 2 (12:08):Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. No, I love hearing the drive ins. I dunno. Would you say like being in Brazil? I think, I don't know. You tell me I never been to Brazil, but I've been to Columbia. Maybe there's some similar stuff. That's where I did my church mission and it's like, I don't know. I'm sure it's similar in Columbia. People had nothing. Um, I imagine Brazil, there's probably a lot of poor parts and stuff like that. So I'm sure you gotta like, you know, scrap for everything and just like, you know, fighting call your way to success and everything. Um, probably more than out here in the U S we have, we have a ton out here compared to, I know a lot of countries down there. So do you think that contributes like your drive? Obviously you have like a ton of drive jelly, keep going where most other people to be bought in is industry. They're not, especially in solar, they're going to hit five, six deals in the month and be satisfied with that because they're making awesome money with that. So what is it? Yeah. What do you think, um, where do you get that drive from? If, if you have any, anything to say about that?Speaker 3 (13:09):Yeah. Um, every time when I think about drive, uh, I remember once I was talking to river rivers keener for like a while, I was just sharing like some personal stuff. And I remember it was just right when he made a post saying if you don't work hard, you're not grateful for the opportunity. That's how I always felt. It's not, I was one of the things that I learned from reading the book, grit from Angela Duckworth, gray, gray, gray book. It's just literally showing me the persistency and the grit and all of that. And when you're grateful for everything that happens. And especially when it come from a different background, I feel like sometimes here in the us, I see people actually complaining, like for not having space in the fridge. And, you know, like I came from a place where like, I will complain to not have stuff from the fridge, you know? Yeah. Sometimes we have the easiest sometimes I just feel like why fear is just so easier and never things just so, so, so cheaper that we take stuff for granted, you know, like we complain for the price of gas now, like three, $4, but in my country, 17, you know?Speaker 2 (14:35):Yeah. That's great. Yeah. That's awesome. And you reminded me, I don't know. Do you know a Leo salesman? He's like, yeah. Have you talked with him fellow Brazilian? He was on the podcast too, actually one of the earlier episodes of the show, but, uh, yeah, it's pretty crazy. He told me too how his dad first came here and same thing. I think he started out in cleaning and started his business and all that. And, um, went through like several bankruptcies, but it's just, uh, I think it's awesome hearing stories like that, of you guys that come from different countries and, um, you're just doing whatever it takes to have success. And, um, yeah, it shows an hours you're working. I asked, uh, I sent river a message because at first I was following you for a little bit, seeing you close all these deals and I'm like, wow, what is this guy doing?Speaker 2 (15:23):Is he on like sells steroids or something close in deal after deal? What is he doing? Um, and so I messaged river. I'm like, man, this guy works with you. What is he doing? And river's just like dared. He just works insane hours. He just goes out there all day, every day. And he's good at sales, but he's just putting in a ton hours. So, I mean, really, I think, do you want to give us idea how many hours are you typically working a week and give us some of your results. You've been getting to be number one rep there.Speaker 3 (15:54):Perfect. Perfect. I feel like, I don't know, uh, coming from passcode trope, I feel like sometimes the solar guys there, I don't want to say people are lazy, but it would just, we just don't work as hard as the farm guys or fast control guys. Exactly. I was eating up a friend say, Hey, what time you guys have meeting? And what time did you go to area? And my friend told me that, uh, his past patrol company, they have been at 9:00 AM and 10 30. They go to area and they work in art, in knife. I've been doing solar for almost almost 10 months now, and I'm never done to add myself. Uh, I work a lot, uh, some things that I might do differently. It's just that once I go to the doors, I just don't stop. And I really mean it. For example, my wife doesn't talk to me when I'm on the doors.Speaker 3 (16:53):And she knows that I just abide by some personal rules and some personal standards that I, I just don't do social media unless I'm posting the deals and talking about that. Like the only reason why I post and I shared that is just for personal accountability. Like it's not for visibility. It's not for the credits. Like I don't, I don't care. I have, I actually have 500 followers. Like I don't care about like how many people I have. Yeah. But you're like, the people I follow, it's just, they bring value. Like I don't follow any celebrity, like any famous people, brands and stuff. I don't have time for that. I just don't. So when I get to work, man, I have a P bottle in my carSpeaker 3 (17:46):And I just, yeah. Like I, or I, I, okay. I can't, I can say like, just being the trees and bushes and stuff, I've done it like so many times I just have a people auto. And then that said, like, I have go to gas stations, zero times I meal prep. I'm following a diet. I started a program a few months ago. I'm sticking to I, if I'm drinking anything, I take it with me. Like I just have everything to be ready for the doors in. And then I just don't stop and say, oh, I talked to 30Speaker 2 (18:21):Homeowners, 30 homers. Nice.Speaker 3 (18:24):That's my go-to. You don't have to be talented. You don't have to be super skilled if you just pull yourself from, in front of 30 people every day. I just feel like there's no way to get the results. And the only way to talk to that many people is just being efficient with the doors, you know, just cherry picking. One of the things that I do, I use my segway a lot. I love it. I wouldn't, I just, man, I don't even, yeah. I don't know. Have you ever used a segway Taylor?Speaker 2 (19:00):Yeah. Yeah. He's it. I, I forgot about it for a little bit, but then say you and river breaking them out. I'm like, man, I ain't gonna pull that thing back out because I forgot how like, you know, quicker and it makes it like more fun on the tours too, to get rejected. Just hop on the segway.Speaker 3 (19:16):Yes. Yes. Especially even if a super hard know what I do every single time. When I hop on my segway, I feel like it's a mental break. Like I don't even feel the no. Cause my brain at that moment is just trying to concentrate on getting on the segway, get it to the next house. See if their shutters are open, see the oils things as they arise, see people's homes, see like how many cars in drive and stuff like that. So it was just a lot of things that comes out automatically to the mind just cause you're used to the job. And that's my goal too. I, I remember being on an adventure with Sam Taggart and he said, and I was asking like, what should I do when I get a super-hard note? And he asked me back, what do you do? And I told him, I just fly to the next door. Like I don't let that get inside my head. I don't wait like half a second. Like whenever they're a jerk, you know? Or like super rude to me. I just two seconds later, I'm on the next door. Right.Speaker 2 (20:17):That's awesome. That's the way to do it. And like all these things, but like people expect, I don't know a lot for a long time. I thought people that were closing tons of deals had some like secret formula, my secret word track they're doing, but you heard it from Christian himself. He's not doing anything. He's just doing like simple things, super consistent. And it's like, I love how you just think of it. Not in like hours work, but no, it's just, I got to talk to 30 people. I got to get in front of 30 people because if I do, that's how I'm going to have success, so I'm going to get it right. And so for our listeners, Christian, um, how long would you say it typically takes you to get in front of 30 or 30 homeowners every day. Okay.Speaker 3 (20:59):That's a great question. So my rule of thumb is just to be driving to an area at three. And in a lot of days, I'm on the doors at three and I work until dark plus one, something that we have part of the culture, just like whenever it gets dark, you just knock one more door and really not more than one door to be just because, yeah, just because of personal standards, but as a company, like, will you just knock until dark plus one? And then yeah, whenever it gets dark, you just be careful the way approach the door. It's just being friendly. You show your badge, you know, you just, yeah. Just the way you carry yourself. Everybody knows the rules and stuff like that. ButSpeaker 2 (21:44):Yeah, that was good. Yeah. And so I did, so you're in a Dallas, right? Cause they're not going to Dallas area. That's where I started. That's where I, uh, uh, I guess got my start in pest control is, and in Dallas actually in, uh, it was pretty brutal. I didn't, I didn't throw it on as many pest accounts as you. I was pretty terrible pest, but um, I remember I got a gun pulled one time in Texas. Those, those Texans are no joke, man. You get guns pulled on you and stuff out there.Speaker 3 (22:15):Yeah. I had first month growing dollars. Same, same, same, same way brother.Speaker 2 (22:23):Yeah. And you got it. You guys got to get like permits and every city to knock out their deer. Right. And they're pretty strict about that.Speaker 3 (22:30):The city and knock sometimes. And again, it's more of a, your attitude. If you feel like you belong the place and you feel like you're all in the area, I feel like everybody's going to be receptive.Speaker 2 (22:43):Yeah. That's awesome. Well, no. So, um, another thing I see you doing a lot of Christian is, um, just getting a lot, a ton of same day appointments. It seemed like almost every deal I see you're posting up on Instagram. It's like same day, same kilowatt, same day 11 kilowatt, just big systems. And they're like majority, same days that looks like. So what do you do? Um, like tell me about that. Do you shoot for same days and what are you doing to get so many same day appointments? Cause that's actually a question I get asked a lot too from our listeners. Okay.Speaker 3 (23:16):Okay. Um, so yeah, average size. It's usually anywhere from nine to 11, that's kind of the average over there. So what we're doing, what I'm doing to get the same days, I don't even allow myself to work differently than that. Like if I'm not same day in you, I don't, I don't actually set the appointment. So it's much more of the way I perceive, uh, going to the events. And again, I think I kind of shared that with you, just listening to podcasts, like your show and many others and listening to people that have been on the job for so long. I just had to learn how to respect and love myself. When I started, I would just feel pity, you know, like, oh I, and that right now, I just feel like everybody's got a Ted story, you know, like who gives a crap? We all got [inaudible] uh, I'm the foreigner I have, I don't know where English and I don't know if I can do solar. So like, man, when I started, my goal was to close 40 deals in the year and then I've closed 60 over the last four months.Speaker 3 (24:37):Yeah. So I just, I just started to believe in myself a little bit more. For example, just the way just the self-talk every time, uh, before I even opened my eyes, that's first thing I do. I try to get myself into peak state. So I repeat a little, like a little mantra that I have for myself. Like I, I, I'm just going to share with you guys. I say today is a good day to make it a great day. Today is a good day to make it a great day. And then on the third time I put more emphasis and I jumped out of the bed and I just get ready. Today's a good day to have to make it a great day. You know? And that gets me to a different state. You know, Tony Robbins called calls it like pig state. And then I have some more stuff. So self-talk is kind of a big thing. I know Taylor McCarthy and a lot of the big players, they talk about that. So after I say that, I also share something else. I say, I'm a great salesman. I sell every day sales come easy to me because I work the hours focused. I'm enough. I weigh my mornings. I weigh my days. I'm winning my life.Speaker 2 (26:03):Boom. I love that. That's awesome. And I know you and river are big on those. I see river doing a lot of stuff like that too. Yeah, it works. I mean, and that NLP stuff. Neuro-linguistic programming. Um, yeah. It's white toner. Have you been to a Tony Robbins eventSpeaker 3 (26:20):Actually. So for August, that's the, I love, I love that you asked that. So for August, uh, fluent, they had a competition. So the number one, like the number, the top performer would get tickets for Tony Robbins. Yeah. So in a month for four now in November, next month I'm flying my wife and I were both flying. Like the company got us tickets hotels, and we're going to Tony Robbins for five days.Speaker 2 (26:48):Wow. That's awesome.Speaker 3 (26:50):It's always, it's been a dream man. Like I I've seen this guy in, like I'm not your guru and a lot of stuff since I was in Brazil, I was like, dude, he's the man. And now I'm going to get to see the legend myself. Yeah.Speaker 2 (27:04):He's the goat for sure. And yeah, you'll have, I've seen them seep speak a few times, but yeah, it's just all the stuff you're saying. Like his event you'll see it as event. And I know you've seen like his documentary and all that, but it's just like screaming and shout and the whole time jumping up and down. So like for managers that are listening to this podcast, make sure you're happy. You're teaching your reps, this stuff. And, uh, Christian just gave you some sweet, um, you know, and contagions manifestations, whatever you want to call them. Souls are good things to repeat. So are you, are you kind of telling yourself those things, like as you get up or as you get out on the doors or just like all the time Christian?Speaker 3 (27:42):Yeah, I repeat that one. Like today is a good day to make it a great day. And then I say three times and I was repeating myself. I'm a great salesman. I sell every day. So when it started, I would say I sell every week because that was my goal. And then I realized that like, why am I selling only every week? Because if I sell every week, I might be sending like four or five, six deals. And like, that's not for me. Like I can do more than that. And it got to a point. I was like, if I'm deciding to sell, just think about the guy. I don't know. Maybe someone listening to this show they've been selling two or three, four or five a month. And then my question is why would you cut yourself short and not sell for the other 25 days of the month? Yeah.Speaker 3 (28:32):I just, I, I kind of like punch myself in the face and I kind of had a serious conversation with myself and that's when everything started to change and I started to same days. So getting back to same days, I want to answer that question. Now I want to share my thought process and how I do it a lot behind the scenes. Like it's not the magical words that that's not, you know, it's just the game. They're like, why did I decide to sell one or two a week? And now I'm telling you, man, if someone, I fun talking to you on the, let's say on a Tuesday and they say, yeah, like, I'm going to be easy. Can you come back on Friday? I'm like, no, sir, I actually can't. So I'm going to show you the calendar. And I actually show my calendar. As you can see, like everybody's been looking into solar, like if you don't want to do this, that's okay. The government, they have a lot of tax incentives. That's okay. Like yes or no, whatever answer works fine with me. My job is to find people that is ready to take the money and take advantage of the program. I've never seen anyone in my life say no to save money. What time is it good tomorrow at four or a six? Boom.Speaker 2 (29:54):There you go. So you're saying that you, you said you don't do next day appointments all like a hundred percent, same days, or do you, do you ever do like next day appointmentsSpeaker 3 (30:06):That I've, I've driven back to houses and then all super solid guy in like four days later and then they no show, like if you just the numbers, like, just think, just trying to get to know your numbers. I think it's important. I know my numbers, like if I don't know my numbers, there's no way for me to increase my closing ratio and stuff like that. So there's a lot of stuff behind the scenes. Like getting to know your numbers, like, oh, how many deals you're closing a month? Cause some people say, oh, I closed. Yeah, you can have a good day. But that doesn't mean really good. Like everybody can have a good day. Everybody can have a good week, but you actually know a guy like for Dick consistency, like four or five months in a row or 10 months in a row, like a year or people being a top performer for years. Those are the guys that, that respect, like, I don't know, maybe selling three or four deals in a day. Yeah. That's good. But if you don't sell a deal next month, that's not good, man. That's not, you know?Speaker 2 (31:10):Yeah. I agree. And that's yeah. That's unfortunately like, like you said, a lot of people in solar, that's the curse of these big commissions. People see the checks coming in and then they don't work after. So that's why I tell a lot of our guys just don't even like, look at how much you're going to make. Like just go out and sell more. Right. It's gotten hit big numbers and do it consistently because that's, what's, that's what's missing. Is guys just hitting their hours and hitting their numbers consistently. Would you agree?Speaker 3 (31:37):Yeah. Yeah. And before I beginning to fall, just go and spend the money on stupid stuff anyway. Yeah. Yeah. It seems I started, you can ask flow in, like I never even touched a paycheck. Never like never, I never touch it because I finally feel like I just, I just invest the money. I like, I know Adam lab, some guys say invest 20% and yada, yada. But if auto manage your money, you can invest a hundred percent of it and just leave legislate broke. Yeah. But that's, that's just, I'm just trying to set myself up for the future instead of like the short-term goals. That's why like I go for same days. I really mean it. I talked to someone if I don't feel like they're a solid lead Taylor, I read her not have the lead then getting like a lead that I know that's not going to sh a no-show waste of time creating the proposal, wait for the proposal to get ready, driving back to the house. And then they know show me right. When I talk to that homeowner, I always, before setting the appointment, I say, Hey, when I come back, I'm going to show you two things. I'm going to show how many panels you're going to need on the roof. You know, where the panels go. And I'm going to show exactly the financial breakdown, how much money you're going to be saving. Uh, if everything makes sense. Is there any reason why you wouldn't move forward with this?Speaker 3 (33:16):I, the reason why I always asked that question. Cause if I take, give me any sort of resistancy, like I don't even set the appointment. That's not for me. Cause when I was doing solar in California, because it was a harder market, I felt like I really had to be a good salesman. You know, it was like, go for the appointment. It's like, cause I know in California you save people money. So if they latch you in, sometimes it's like a terrible lead. Like, dude, I don't want to go solar, but okay. You can come back and then you close the bill, you know?Speaker 2 (33:55):ISpeaker 3 (33:55):Mean this week I had people I've had that happen so many times in California, people like, oh it's solar. I know everything about solar. I will never go solar, but yeah, come back, show me the numbers. And then like, and they signed dogs andSpeaker 2 (34:13):That's awesome. And yeah, it's like, yeah, I forgot what I was going to say. But yeah, just being consistent set in the same days. And um, I think that's a big problem though. Is guys get this rush of excitement? I don't know about you, but when I was starting out, especially in IC in newer reps is they get this almost like rush of excitement when they can say, oh, I set a lead. I set an appointment for tomorrow, went in their head. They know is that this point is like a hundred percent not going to show crop appointments, but they just fill out the form whatever to say. They got an appointment. So I've talked with teams that don't even like recognize appointments booked anymore. We used to recognize and give like a ton of recognition for how many appointments were booked on a day.Speaker 2 (34:57):But now we sort of swapped it up and our teams, we don't even like posts when we book appointments for the most part it's because I don't know. I think, I think guys put too much focus on just that little rush of excitement when you say, oh, I've set an appointment. Or really like, as you know, when solar means nothing until you get it to install. Right. So at the end of the day, installs are king and um, you know, obviously you got to help people with the steps beforehand. But yeah, I agree with that a hundred percent. Um, I think people set way too many crappy appointments and get happy about it. SoSpeaker 3 (35:33):I've done it myself. Like I've done it myself, just trying to trick myself and maybe look really good for the company. Look good for the guys that you work with. But at the end of the day, like only closed deals and installs. That's the only metric that's gonna matter. Like the amount of people you you're getting from and the people you sign up. Oh yeah, I've done it like so many times. It's just that it really depends this tenders. You're holding yourself to, you know, as whenever I decided to like do same days and, and treat my time as the most valuable thing in the world, I felt like everything has changed. Just like, it's not just saying like, I love myself. It's just like, Hey, I don't know if we're going to have solar. I liked listening to the Michael Donner. When he says on his podcast, he was thinking it was, it was going to be the end of the solar. Remember that? I, I, I, I feel like I try to leave like that, like everyday, like, oh, maybe it's the inner solar. I bet I better take it of energy, the opportunity. This is the mother gold rush.Speaker 2 (36:47):Sure. I know the guys who are Trina like that, they're having the success. And so something that I really think is cool that you do Christian is I feel like another big thing you're super consistent on just your teens. I see you post on like, you know, pictures of books or reading workouts you're doing like you were talking about earlier the meal plan. And for me, I think I know myself, um, when I am being super consistent, I'm not as near as consistent as you. So I have a ton of respect for that. But the times where I'm working assistant or is where I'm falling, like both set schedules, those are routines. I'm doing my workouts reading, um, getting my healthy eating in. So for you, how, how big of a big of a factor would you say that is? Like your routines every day in the stuff you do before you go out on the doors, do you want to share a couple of those things that you're doing that maybe help you out just like get in the right mindset to hit the doors consistently every day?Speaker 3 (37:40):Yes. Yes. Taylor, I'm not, uh, you know, uh, I'm closed system when it comes to closing deals. But for example, I'm not the guy that's working out like crazy doing CrossFit. I'm not in the best shape I've lost. I've dropped 25 pounds so far.Speaker 2 (37:58):Yeah. You're not going to CrossFit with river. Isn't that thing.Speaker 3 (38:03):And yeah, he took me, he took me to CrossFit a few times, but it's just too hard for me.Speaker 2 (38:08):That's no joke.Speaker 3 (38:10):Yeah. But something that helped me, for example, the same consistency with some, some people have with the gym I have with the diet and with the meal prep. So I'm trying to get one thing at a time in order in my life. Cause I feel like the way you do one thing is the way you do everything, but there's no way to change everything at once. It's just tapped by stop. So I started with the diet and I, I'm pretty sure that pretty soon I'm going to be the guy just super consistent with working out. Because for the last 10 months I've been taking the cold showers and it's not like I hate it. I hate it. I came from Brazil like there. Yeah. It's like, it's a one country, you know, it's like, yeah. But I, I saw like Dora, Dora guys doing the cold showers, people doing for years.Speaker 3 (39:01):Like, you know what, I'm going to give it a try and then realize that now, like it's not that hard for me anymore. So even when I don't do a whole lot of things, I just, Hey, I've done hard things myself in the past. So even the days when I wake up late, which I do, I don't win the morning every day. I'm not the guy went in the morning everyday. I want to share that with you. But what happens is when it's game time, it's no joke. It's game time. Even when I was doing pest control, uh, it's not, uh, now if you are a little bit of a shame of Shea, uh, saying that, but our meetings was at 10 hours, the guy waking up literally and 9 58, and now I'm serious. My alarm was set for 9, 8 58. I was broke and I was going to brush my teeth for 30 seconds and fly.Speaker 3 (40:01):And for so many times I had to like pee one-on-one and eat it. Yeah. Eat like Marjorie or, or, yeah, just like do crazy stuff, you know, be slammed and punch. And they're like, yeah, that happened. Like, yeah, I was late like a lot of times, but still I was able to be number one by the end of the summer. So it's not only about waking up early or it's not only about winning the morning or really it's just implementing what you do. I don't read 20 books a month. I don't read, I read one book a month sometimes, but whatever I read, I try to implement as well. Yeah.Speaker 2 (40:51):I love that. And that's something my think is really cool too, is you're sharing the wins and the losses. I mean, you don't have to do it all a hundred percent to be number one, Christians. Oh yeah. Some guys think that, oh, I didn't. I missed my morning routine. Well, this day is shot. I'm going to get out on the doors late. Uh, this day's going good. But I think the guys that are having success, they're missing things here and there, but they're still being as consistent as possible. Like if they miss their workout or if they miss out on their cold shower or whatever, they're cutting their losses and they're still gonna make that day as accessible as possible. That's another lesson that I feel like I still need to learn sometimes. I don't know if you get out on late on the doors, don't like consider your whole day shot.Speaker 2 (41:34):Just go out and push as hard as you can for the hours you did get out instead of letting it effect your whole day, which I think is awesome. And you posted the other day, Christian. Um, I think it was on a Saturday. You posted, um, that you got out and knocked the whole day, but you didn't get like, I don't know if it was in a single appointment or a single close. And I thought that was cool, dude. Cause I'm used to seeing you post sale after sale, and then you kept that real scene. You didn't get anything on that. Saturday was that last Saturday you posted that.Speaker 3 (42:02):Yeah. So again, I work three weeks, super hard in a take, I don't know, like a few days off. So, uh, I realized the Saturdays are first solar in my opinion. Cause they can get people home. And because my goal is to same day, I was like, I'm going to be at the door. So what happen is over the last 16 weeks, five weeks I was out. Okay. Cause pretty much once a month, I'm out for training for traveling vacation, whatever it is. So what happened out of the 16 Saturdays? I worked at last of those. So last Saturday was the 11th Saturday. There was always selling and now was, I was trying super, super hard. I did get on the doors like nine, 10:00 AM and I D I didn't stop. Like I, I stopped to eat for three minutes, my meal prep at the guest.Speaker 3 (42:58):I dunno for some of my posts. I was there to just eating at a gas station and I was like, I can't, I'm on a winning streak. You know, like just the momentum that everybody talks about. So I wanted to carry that. Cause now it's a tradition. It's like sailing on. It's not even a question anymore for sure. And yeah, so I was like, I got to find the deal. And then I did, uh, for example, when, uh, when I went to Houston for the first time, it was like a month ago actually my, my first Houston installed is going to happen tomorrow. Nice. Yeah. I realized that I was having consistency consistently, but I never had a two spot in, I, and I've seen a lot of guys just selling three, four deals in a day. I was like, oh crap. How did these guys do that?Speaker 3 (43:53):You know? And I was like, you know what, I'm doing it. And wa and I did it. And then the following day, I sold two as well. Nice. And then the following day, I sold two again. And then, and then I realized that whatever is your standard, try to raise the bar. So what I mean by that, for the listeners that I sell in four or five, six, dude, just like, there's no way you're not selling 10 a month. Like why you're not selling double digits because once you do, you just do it and then it was just do it again and there, just do it again. And then was just going to do it every month because you've done it because you've done it. So, yeah, I like, I've done like 10 and then I get 10 and then 10 and then 12 and then 15 and then 16. And now like, now I want to close 20. I want to close.Speaker 2 (44:53):Yeah. That's true. And yeah, I think that's another miss people like set their standards so low and then they hit it, get complacent. Um, but yeah, I actually just got out of pot and podcasts earlier today with the Alex Hogan hall. And she was talking about that too. Just how competitions help her reps like get to a new level. And then it's like, okay, you saw yourself do 15 in a month during this competition. Like, why can't you do, why can't you do that every month now? So I think that's a key thing for managers, leaders and stuff like that. Get your guys to hit higher levels. And then they see it's possible. It's like they, once they see the four minute mile has been done, then you can't say it's impossible anymore. Like Christian just went out and did it. Right. Just went out and did it. These guys can do it. It's possible. I mean, Christian, you didn't even know, you didn't even know English from selling pest control for crying out loud. Like anyone should be able to hear,Speaker 3 (45:49):I know you don't like roaches. I don't like cockroaches as well. Okay. We got up, we got something in common. Let's get you started. Okay. The trucks are right there. You know, the Johnsons, boom. Yeah. The trucks is going to finish and then you're next on my list. I'll do super cheap. Boom.Speaker 2 (46:05):That's why I left Brazil. There are too many roaches and spiders. That's awesome stuff, Christian. Um, and then like with goals. So can you talk about real quick before we kinda wrap up here with your numbers? What, what type of metrics is there some metrics like, you know, you need to hit to hit your goals every month, like X amount of appointments. Um, is it pretty much just 30 homeowners you're focused on focusing on and then, you know, the rest will fall into place with that or any other metrics you focus on for the month?Speaker 3 (46:39):Yup. Yup, definitely. Um, so when it comes to the numbers, uh, it's important to know your numbers. For example, I'm just going to look, I have my numbers on the notes, on my phone that way. Uh, I always track, I have, uh, I've shared my calendar on social media anywhere to anyone that wants to see my calendar and how it looks like how I have my appointments, how we book it and how I know exactly the outcome. I, what I did. I color coded what I mean by that. For example, every time when I have a showing in blue, I noticed an appointment when they shows a purple. I know it's an appointment that I pitched that didn't close when it shows green. I know the people that I showed. So I have, uh, I have a visual just right in front of me. So it's, it's kind of easy.Speaker 3 (47:29):I just opened my calendar and I know, I know that I'm doing well, and I know that I'm not doing well, and I know what I have to work on. And I know what I have improved because it's visual. I just call her a code in my calendar and knowing that I it's always there. It's always available for example, um, why don't we just go, hold on. I just, I just switched phones. I got a new phone, but it was so busy working. Like I, I had owned the bot for a month, a new phone and the brand new iPad. Like he came out, I got it. And I didn't even open. I was just busy working.Speaker 2 (48:07):I know I got to close more deals than that at bed.Speaker 3 (48:12):I just moved to Utah for like two days or something. It was like, you know what, I'm just going to take the iPad and the iPhone. So I started up, but I remember, I remember, so when it comes to July, I had 41 appointments out of this 41. I have, I don't know, 18 or shows. I had like 14 that I pitched that didn't close. And I had 15 that, a page that did close and I had three, the fail credit. So I realized that August, if I ha if I wanted to have my best month, which I did, I had to do bigger numbers because it's a numbers game. So what I did, I increased my numbers. So for August, I had 62 appointments and out of the 62, 23, no show me, which is 30%. And then out of the people that showed up, I pitched 18 that didn't close and a page 16 that they'd closed. So right now I'm sitting at a 50% closing for the people that I sit down. Wait. Yeah.Speaker 2 (49:14):That's incredible. Yeah. And yeah, that's, that's no secret to, I think a lot of guys forget is like top guys, like you, any top guy that I get on this podcast, that's closing a lot of deals. They all know their numbers like that instantly. So for our Solarpreneurs listeners, um, if you, if you can't like, you know, tell back your numbers right now and go through your ratios, like Christian just did, then you're missing something there. Cause I think that's a huge thing. If you can't know your numbers, you don't know like the back of your hand, how are you going to improve them? That's what Christian has been doing. That's how he's been all day increases numbers. He's just like, oh, I need to sit with more people than it being cheap as ratios the same or improve them. I know my best months and sales.Speaker 2 (49:57):Um, yeah, I've, I've been a mad man about tracking numbers too. So that's that's um, yeah. Huge thing. If people aren't doing that. So a Christian, I know it's getting late. You're in Utah, we're doing a late night podcast right now. So Christians appreciate you for coming on. Um, we went back and forth so glad to finally get you on the show, even though it's, you know, 10 o'clock at night for you. Awesome. But, uh, Christian. So before we kind of wrap up here, where can people find you on social media and connect with you and all that?Speaker 3 (50:29):Yeah. So when I got here in the U S I actually, I didn't have social media for about like two, almost three years now. I still use Facebook, Krisha, moron, and the ground. I that's why I have like 500 people. Just pretty much all door to door people. Yeah. I started needs to grow and like, not like maybe a year ago, stuff like that. I just want to share it. Won't last thing that the numbers, they, they didn't look like this. When I started, like, I will have to sit down with five, six people to close one. So I had to work way, way harder now because it closed at 50% every day, I just got to get inside two houses and that's it, whatever your number is. If you're closing one out of four, just do the reverse engineering. Because a lot of times people, they just do like how much money they can make, but they don't break down with the reverse engineer to see how many people they have to talk to how many hours they have to put in order to get those appointments.Speaker 3 (51:35):Well, how many of these appointments are going to show how many of these appointments are going to cancel? What's your cancellation rate? Like it's important to know that stuff and just backtrack and do the reverse engineer. So cause when it started, I was like, yeah, I want to do 40 deals. And I was like, no, I don't want to do 40 anymore. And then I wanted to do 60 deals. And then I realized that I could do 16 for months. And now, now I want to close way more than that. You know, it's just, yeah, that's pretty much what I, what I wanted to share with the guys that like, it was, it was hard. It was hard, but now I'm just grateful. So we had to push for meetings, Christian Maroney, and I'm available. Like I don't care for work for a different company hours if people, Hey, I'm going to Houston, you are invited to just stay in my place. You can just work with me. I don't care, whatever t-shirt, you're working with. I don't care whatever company, if I can provide any value, if I can. Like, if I, I dunno if I can stand for the industry, if I can support any solar fallow, because I feel like sometimes people they're not happy with their current companies or sometimes people aren't happy, but they still can learn from people, you know? Yeah. Yeah.Speaker 2 (52:49):That's huge. So yeah, no, I think abundance mindset. Um, definitely appreciate that. And um, yeah, like I always tell the story, but a lot of people starting out when I started in solar, didn't have that mindset. They're like, no, if you're from a different company, I'm not going to talk to you. I'm not like sharing anything, company secrets. So I think it's awesome that guys like you now are, you know, just coming from that abundance mindset and willing to share, what's working for you and you know, specific things you're doing and saying on the doors. So a last kind of follow up question that Christian, before we let you go here, um, you, you mentioned that you, you know, increase your closing ratio and improve those numbers a lot. I just been going anything specific that you did to like increase those ratios. Do you think it was just more, experience-based just more time you needed or were you like drill on role playing like crazy? What helped you increase those ratios in your closes and all thatSpeaker 3 (53:42):Fantastic question, Taylor. I love it. I love it. So I learned at a young age, I don't know, probably most of the listeners they know Zig Ziglar. They know Napoleon hill. They know gene rum for me. Like if you're listening to, if you listen to Zig Ziglar and Jim, like, I just compensate with numbers. What I lack in skill, that's it numbers, what are lacking skill? What I mean by that? I just had to get myself in front of a lot of people until I could learn. So what made the change is that along the process, I realized that I just needed to simplify. I was making solar too complicated. I was explaining in a way that people go like, dude, I'm not sure in my car. Did he says a confused mind? We always say no, just make it simple, like stupid, simple in a sense that now every single one of my presentations, I'm pretty pretty a hundred percent confident that if I do my presentation to a third grade, they're going to understand like a hundred percent.Speaker 2 (54:55):Hmm. That's awesome. Yeah. Love that. So Christian, thanks for all the tips you shared. So for Solarpreneurs, keep it simple out there. And guys, it's not rocket science. Christian came from Brazil, barely know in English and he's killing it in this injury. He's one of the top reps in the industry. So do those simple things, be consistent, get out on the doors at the same time, be consistent in your closes, tracked your numbers like a madman. And I think that's pretty much all there is to it. So, uh, so Christian, thanks again for coming on the show and before yep. Before we let you go, I guess we pretty much went through anything, but any, uh, any final tips you want to share with our Solarpreneurs before we say goodbye,Speaker 3 (55:37):My brother, uh, I think, I think that said something that I do know that I also do. I want to share one thing like with the international people, sometimes some guys it's like, oh, like it's hard, no doors, doors for you as well. You know, just believe in yourself. And you have, I've seen so many people just getting to the industry and crushing it. I'll say that's something that I wanted to share as well just believe in yourself, this, this is for you and know your demographics. I know exactly what type of people that I closed at a higher percentage. It better send that you ratio rate. So that's, that's kinda my, the people that I go to. So when I, same days just based on their body language, they, they react. They, they talk to me the way they carried themselves. I can save from closing that deal or no. So if I don't feel like I'm closing, I don't even set the appointment. So just kind of know the people that you close easier. Cause the Indiana, the day, you don't want to be the best salesman in the world. Just go talk to, just look for the low hanging fruit.Speaker 3 (56:48):Just look for the low hanging fruits and that's it.Speaker 2 (56:51):Yeah. I love that. So w what, what are the demographics for you, Christian? What, which ones do you go after?Speaker 3 (56:59):Um, now, now it's getting to a point that I can close. Pretty much everything. It wasn't like as now. I don't, I don't have a demographics, but yeah, in Texas, there's a lot of like, uh, black people. I feel like that's a really good demographic for me. I can connect with this people really, really well, and I haven't closed. So in my country we speak Portuguese, but I learned here in dos. I, I don't close a whole lot of deals in Spanish to be Frank with you. Nah, but I like it's, it's good people. So, but that's not my go-to. I feel like, yeah, I'll say black people, but I, I like, I like styling everyone.Speaker 2 (57:42):Yeah. Let's go. Well, Christian, thanks again, my man. Sorry. I think I've said we're going to wrap up like 10 times and then you keep, you keep, you keep dropping a cold on us. So I'm like, dang, I need to ask him about this. And he follow up withSpeaker 3 (57:56):Very, very first time speaking in public. So I just can't. I just can't hold myself.Speaker 2 (58:00):Yeah, no, you did awesome, man. So I appreciate you guys go give Krishna fall. Let them know you appreciated that episode. And thanks again. We'll be connecting and talk soon, Christian. Thanks for coming on the show.Speaker 4 (58:13):Hey, Solarpreneurs quick question. What if you could surround yourself with the industry's top performing sales pros, marketers, and CEOs, and learn from their experience and wisdom in less than 20 minutes a day. For the last three years, I've been placed in the fortunate position to interview dozens of elite level solar professionals and learn exactly what they do behind closed doors to build their solar careers to an all-star level. That's why I want to make a truly special announcement about the new learning community, exclusively for solar professionals to learn, compete, and win with top performers in the industry. And it's called the Solciety, this learning community with designed from the ground up to level the playing field to give solar pros access to proven members who want to give back to this community and help you or your team to be held accountable by the industry. Brightest minds four, are you ready for it? Less than $3 and 45 cents a day currently Solciety is open, launched, and ready to be enrolled. So go to Solciety.co To learn more and join the learning experience. Now this is exclusively for Solarpreneur listeners. So be sure to go to solciety.co and join. We'll see you on the inside. 

Murder Murder News - The Listen Edition
The Lesbian Vampire Killer: Tracey Wigginton

Murder Murder News - The Listen Edition

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 22, 2021 43:21


Back in 1989, the case of the Lesbian Vampire Killer took Australia by storm. There had been a random attack on an innocent victim in Brisbane one night in October, and a man lost his life in the name of drinking blood. When Tracey Wigginton and her accomplices went to trial, stories of vampirism, satanic panic, witches' covens and dark rituals were on everyone's lips. Angelina and Aurora unpack what exactly went down, why the case was such a sensation, and what happened in the aftermath of one of the most brutal murders in Australian history. Writing and research by Angelina Villeseche.Original music and audio production by Louis Levesque.For inquiries: louis14levesque@gmail.comF O L L O W  U S ! ! !I N S T A G R A M -- @murdermurdernewsT W I T T E R --  @mmurdernewsF A C E B O O K -- https://www.facebook.com/mmntruecrime/T I K T O K -- @murdermurdernewsY O U T U B E -- MurderMurder NewsJoin our Facebook Group | to chat about true crime, and to join our virtual book club!Check out MurderMurder.news for the latest breaking true crime news!For business inquiries: murdermurdernews@gmail.comSubmit a  spooky story: https://murdermurder.news/story-submission-form/-------------LINKS + SOURCES:Killer Instinct: Having a Mind for Murder by Donald GrantBizarrism by Chris MikulMurder in the Land of Oz PodcastThe Lesbian Vampire Killers  - August 25th, 2018https://www.9news.com.au/national/queensland-news-vampire-killer-tracey-wigginton-victim-edward-baldock-who-was-he-family/42ec1e28-cc3d-4a8e-a7db-38ef29dc5f51https://vampyres.ca/how-the-vampire-killer-became-a-bachelor-of-arts/https://amp.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/lesbian-vampire-killer-to-be-released-20111221-1p4z0.htmlhttps://amp.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/11b5u5/im_related_to_tracey_wigginton_lesbian_vampire/https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/shock-revelation-in-brisbanes-infamous-lesbian-vampire-killing/news-story/ac7ebac0af6c24f5a97d73d200078a38https://www.academia.edu/600264/Biting_the_hand_that_breeds_The_trials_of_Tracey_Wiggintonhttps://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/crime-week-dark-secrets-of-australias-lesbian-vampire-murderer/news-story/83ed596770511fa459c4a7feab36ce1chttps://murderpedia.org/female.W/w/wigginton-tracey.htmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracey_Wiggintonhttps://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/true-crime-scene/the-lesbian-vampire-killer-the-dark-secrets-of-tracey-wiggington/news-story/0ac4880487a8b8befcab01ced6eb3122https://www.theage.com.au/national/lesbian-vampire-killer-seeks-jail-transfer-20070331-ge4k59.htmlSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/murdermurdernews)

The Uncurated Life Podcast
132 | LULAWHA? The LuLaRich Documentary

The Uncurated Life Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 18, 2021 33:37


If you've been around the planner world (or shit, the online world) you probably know about LuLaRoe. Amazon Prime released a documentary called LuLaRich chronicling the rise and fall of the MLM - I've got so many thoughts! DISCLAIMER Colorful words may be used. don't be alarmed. NEWSLETTER https://view.flodesk.com/pages/61525a85337f1c2aacf52f6d Etsy Shop Reopens 10/21/21 https://www.etsy.com/shop/CGBPrints FIND ME ON ALL THE THINGS Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/cindyguentertbaldo YouTube - https://youtube.com/c/CindyGuentertBaldo Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/llamaletters/ Discord - https://discord.gg/Rwpp7Ww Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/llamaletters/ Website - www.cindyguentertbaldo.com STUFF I MENTIONED LuLaRich - https://amzn.to/3EWgMbT TFD Video - https://youtu.be/HHK5FuOCGyU The Dream Podcast - https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-dream Inquiries - cindy@cindyguentertbaldo.com   TRANSCRIPTION Hey everybody. Welcome back to the uncurated life podcast. My name is Cindy Guentert-Baldo. If this is your first time here. Welcome if this is not your first time here. Hell yeah. I'm glad that you're back. Blah-blah-blah let's get into today's episode really quick, but before I do, I want to give you a quick announcement.   How many times can I say quick? And this episode who knows, right? The announcement is that this coming up Thursday, October 21st, 2021, my Etsy shop will be reopening. I will have all of the series, one fuckery flowers, my art prints of realistic flowers with naughty words, hidden in them. All of the series one, the flowers that were in the shop before we'll be back with all prints and postcards available as well as a couple of small, new, like stocking stuffer type items, a few bookmarks and vinyl sticker packs.   You can find the link to it in the show notes. And soon in the next few weeks, I will be updating it with limited edition calendars with series two and series one fuckery flowers on them. And then in later November, there will be the launch of series two, which is. Set up 12 new fuckery flowers with prints and postcards, as well as some bundles of things that will include both series.   So if that is something you have been waiting for, or you haven't checked it out yet, my Etsy shop will be linked in the show notes and you can go ahead and favorite it, do all the things and look for it on October 21st. Now let's get into the episode. We're going to talk about Lula rich today. Why is this relevant to the planner world?   Yes, it's fucking relevant to the planner world. If you don't know why it's relevant to the planner world trust, I will tell you about that. So what is Lula rich? Let's start right. Lulu rich is a documentary on Amazon prime. It just came out well, it came out in September and I binge watched all four episodes of it.   It's about the rise and fall of the multi-level marketing company. They interview current and ex. Retailers or consultants. They're the people that are actually part of the multi-level marketing company. They interview former employees of the home office, the corporate side of it, and most interesting.   They interview mark and DeAnn Stedham who are the founders of the company, as well as some of their family members who were put into high level positions within the company. One of the things that I thought was interesting is that the documentary was made by the same people who made the documentary about the fire festival.   So they have had some experience making documentaries about dumpster fires. So what is LuLaRoe in case you don't know? And if you don't know, I. Remarkably jealous of you. LuLaRoe's a multi-level marketing company. If you don't know what multi-level marketing is, and I'm really jealous of you, it is direct sales is another name for it.   Some people call them pyramid schemes. Although in the U S in the laws, there are very specific rules that govern pyramid scheme. Versus multi-level marketing companies, pyramid schemes are illegal. Multi-level marketing companies are not honestly, I don't really see that much of a difference between the two.   And if you really want an interesting, entire deep dive on multi-level marketing companies, I will recommend the first season of the dream, a podcast. They did a limited series on multi-level marketing. That's outstanding. But in general, multi-level marketing is a business model where there is a company that produces something, whether it's it's essential oils like young living or what's the other one.   I don't remember. There's some other fun. Essential oils. I don't give a fuck or like makeup. Some of the most famous makeup ones are like Mary Kay and Avon. Then there's Amway, which is one of the most famous Tupperwares, also multi-level marketing company, but there's all sorts of them. And during the age of social media, they've exploded because of how social media works.   And Lula Roe really leaned into that. We'll talk about that in a second, but in the idea of a multi-level marketing, is that. There's a company that makes some sort of a product rather than sell that product to stores or sell it themselves like wholesale it, they sell it to consultants, quote, independent consultants who are not employed by the company.   They send a contract with the company, but they're not employed by the company. The consultants buy the products at wholesale and then sell them to customers at re. No in and of itself, that doesn't sound like such a problem, right? Except that a lot, or the majority of multi-level marketing companies, the money is not made in the sales of the product.   The money is made in recruiting more consultants underneath you to then by-product from the company and sell to customers. The problem here is a, if the real money is made through recruiting, rather than selling the product. Then the people at the top make the most money and then, but they have to depend on more and more levels of people beneath them.   Hence the term pyramid scheme. The other problem that you run into is that while they say there's like so many people that you can recruit and blah, blah, blah, if you're recruiting your customer base sooner or later, you don't have anybody to sell to now social media, once again has blown this all up because you can reach out to more than just your, your sphere of influence in like your community or whatever.   But like it, it can, a company can really hit like a level of saturation and that's when shit can start to go a little wonky. Now, if you really want to really delve into like the side of people who have been burned by this, besides watching Lula rich, Google, anti MLM, trust me, you'll find all sorts of.   But we're talking about LuLaRoe. So LuLaRoe is a MLM that sells clothing. It started with maxi skirts expanded in to quote, buttery, soft leggings, and then a whole bunch of other things. The. Clothing was mainly geared towards women. And one of the things, one of the like selling points of it was that they had all of these like wild prints for the fabrics that these clothes were made out of.   And that any given print was only going to be. Into like 3000 pieces and then it would be gone. And so retailers will be getting in there. The consultants will get in their orders of prints. And if you got one of the prints that was like a very popular one, then people would want to shop with you. It also supposedly was going to encourage collaboration with other retailers because people would be looking for certain things.   And if you didn't have it, but you had other friends who were consultants, they might have it. So you could serve your customers that way, which is an interesting way to go about it. Okay. Now, one of the things that was, is pretty painful about Lula Rowe is that retailers, which is what they call their consultants.   Um, don't get to choose the prints. They can pick the styles and they can pick the sizes, the prints, however, we're not their choice. They would not know what they were getting until they open their box, which could be very cool except, and Lula rich really. Demonstrates, this really shows a lot of the evidence of this.   Not all of these prints are nice. I've heard people refer to some of them as Doritos leggings. There is a lot of them where the way the leggings were made, it would look super like a badge or a penis because of just the unfortunate way the pieces were stick together. And as time went on, the prince got more and more janky and more and more not desirable.   And so these consultants would wind up with a lot of inventory that they couldn't sell because it was ugly. And then on top of that, the only way to get better inventory would be to order more and more and more. And you can see where this could become a problem. Now there's two things that really are important to understand about LuLaRoe's specifically one because it's clothing and because it's like meant to be an inventory, heavy business, the initial package.   Is like at least $5,000, you have to spend a huge chunk of money upfront and then continually order more and more you with some multilevel marketing companies, you could get a catalog and sell from the catalog and then order as the money comes in, that would be the least risky way to go about things.   But in LuLaRoe, because you don't know what you're getting until you get it, you literally have to buy a bunch of shit in order to sell a bunch of shit. So there's that the second thing to know about LuLaRoe is that it, it really started in the mid 2010s, I believe, right? As Facebook lives and Periscope and things like that were becoming really big.   So. A lot of consultants started to do Facebook lives. They get their box of stuff. They go live on Facebook in their group or on their page where they had a bunch of potential customers. And then they would just show items and people would comment sold and that's how they would sell them. And this just really blew up and a bunch of other multi-level marketing companies hell or use social media now, too.   But it got very big on Facebook very quickly. And this is where the connection to the planter community begins. So. Around 2016 and I could be wrong. It could have been 2015, but I, my best memory is around like late 2015, early 2016, Lula Rowe sorta started to take over the planter community. It started with a few retailers in the planner world, and then they began to recruit from the planner community.   Now I understand why this is. I'm going to generalize a little bit here, but a lot of people in the planter, community or women, especially back then, a lot of people in the planner community are introverted. I'm generalizing. And there's a lot of them that are moms. A lot of them that they, I w I would, I would say that in, especially in like the circles of planner committee that I've run in, like the PGW kind of area.   There were a lot of people that were kind of ripe for the picking when it came to Louisville road, because one of the things that they did well at the beginning was sell clothing that was comfortable and Dorito his side was not like entirely unflattering. But it was comfortable. I got some, I got the maxi skirts because they were the longest maxi skirts with a nice wide band around the belly.   I'm six foot two. It's hard to find maxi skirts that are actually maxi on me, but the Lula ones I got were, they also had a. Irma. That was like a tunic length top that was long enough to cover my plumber's butt crack, which again is very difficult for me to find because of how tall I am. It's just, it's hard for me to find.   And so there were certain items from LuLaRoe that were just there. We're well-suited for me and I was comfortable in them and I appreciated that. And I wasn't the only one now I also had to get into a little bit of that hunting kind of mindset, because I didn't want any wacky prints. I wanted solids.   And so solids were like a big unicorn, especially black leggings. Oh my God. So hard to find. But so the people who came, who were planned or people who got into Lula Rowe had a really great audience for them kind of already there. So those people, they sold their products to planner. People, built groups from planner people and built their teams from planner.   People. The teams are pretty big and there was a lot of them. And LuLaRoe was everywhere. There were all sorts of people like asking about different groups and blah, blah, blah, but it came kind of to a really frothy head at go wild 2017. And now. So the go wild team, the people that put the, the org, the welfare planners, people that put on the actual conference decided that year, that for the plan Gemma party, they were going to rent the little bar, like, like corridor that's at the, uh, the Gaylord hotel in Nashville that the conference was being held at.   There were these three bars, there was a karaoke bar. There was a kind of a club style bar. And then there was a smaller situation. And what they decided to do was rent all three of those out and like close it off to just the people that were coming to play in JAMA. So Erin Condron sponsored the clubs, style bar, Krissyanne designs sponsored the karaoke bar, but that was the third bar.   And remember, this was the second year of go wild and it was only 700 people coming. So the number of like companies that had. Been willing to put large amounts of money into the conference. We're still very, it was a, still a very short list because it was so new. And so they decided to allow a Lula Roe pop-up to sponsor the third.   Now, um, a lot of this is anecdotal evidence. I don't know all of the details behind any of this. This is just like I said, from my observations, from being in the community and being at the event. But. Uh, one of the groups of consultants in the planner community decided that they would as a team. So they were all on a team together.   They were all in one downline. They decided to pool together and sponsor the bar so that they could bring their shit and put all their clothes out and let consultants shop. And it seemed like, you know, a smart financial move for them because so many people in the planner community were buying shit anyway.   So they were going to have them kind of as a, as a captive audience. Right. There were two controversies that came from this one was that at this point, and even to this day go wild does not have a shopping component to it. Every once in a while, there will be like a place you can buy things or like one.   Opportunity to buy things. But one of the reasons they don't have like a vendor hall or haven't had a vendor hall in the past is because they wanted the shop owners who are part of the community to actually get to come and meet their customers and enjoy the conference, not spend their whole time vending.   I think that's a great idea personally, although I do know some people who get sad th