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Welcome to the Beyond Your Research Degree podcast from the University of Exeter Doctoral College! The podcast about non-academic careers and all the opportunities available to you... beyond your research degree! In this episode PhD student Debbie Kinsey talks to Gemma Edney, a University of Exeter alumni. An experienced project manager and events manager, Gemma now works at St George's, The University of London.    Music from https://filmmusic.io 'Cheery Monday' by Kevin MacLeod (https://incompetech.com) License: CC BY (https://creativecommons.org/licenses Podcast transcript   1 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:19,000 Hello and welcome to the Beyond Your Research Degree podcast by the University of Exeter Doctoral College 2 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:27,000 So I'm Gemma. I did my PhD in film studies finished last April. 3 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:37,000 So April 2019 was when I was awarded. I submitted the September before that, so I sort of stopped the actual physical researching and writing 24/7. 4 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:46,000 In September 2018, immediately after submitting, I got a job at the student information desk. 5 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:54,000 Here I am organising graduation. Which sounds more stressful the more I think about it. 6 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:59,000 But I actually think organising graduation is actually quite stressful. 7 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,000 But so I did that. 8 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:10,000 So I did that immediately after submitting completed my corrections while I was doing that, and then continued doing that for a little bit. 9 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,000 I was looking for jobs here and there. 10 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:19,000 The plan originally was academic jobs, so I was looking for those. 11 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:27,000 There weren't very many. So and the more I looked at, to be honest, the less I wanted any of the jobs that did come up looking. 12 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:35,000 So then in October last year, I decided to apply to the civil service fast stream scheme. 13 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:42,000 And finally, it's the longest application process ever. But finally, I found out in February that I've been successful. 14 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:50,000 So I'll be starting there in September, which is about the change of direction, but is, I think, a good move for me. 15 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:55,000 So, yeah, that's kind of where I am in my journey at the moment. 16 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,000 Yeah. So you were initially you working kind of in university, you know, you said. 17 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:04,000 Well, yeah, initially looking for research type jobs but now decided to move outside. 18 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:10,000 Yes. Yeah. So I worked throughout my PhD anyway, um, 19 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:19,000 part time at the university and then that's sort of how I ended up with the job that I ended up with once I had submitted. 20 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:27,000 I wasn't in a position I could once I'd finished, just do sort of a seminar here and there or like one or two seminars a week. 21 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,000 I needed an actual job full, full time hours. I did. 22 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:38,000 Originally, I was offered teaching in the year that I, I submitted, but it was only one seminar a week. 23 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:44,000 And so I had to say no because I needed more than just one seminar a week and I 24 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:49,000 wasn't able to take a full time job and also do a seminar a week because funnily enough, 25 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,000 the university don't like to employ people or more than a full time contract. So. 26 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:59,000 So I wasn't able to do that, which was a shame, because I do really I do miss teaching is one of the things I really miss. 27 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:04,000 But I carried on looking. I was constantly looking for jobs. 28 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:09,000 I was never under the impression that I was gonna do graduation organisation forever. 29 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:14,000 That's not something that I thought was on my future plan, really. 30 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:22,000 So I did carry on looking for jobs. But the more I looked to be honest, the more it's they were all fixed term. 31 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:30,000 They were all part time. Some of them were fixed term and part-time. And it just wasn't something that I wanted. 32 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:41,000 After doing four years of PhD, I was ready to just actually know where I was going and where I was gonna be and have a bit more stability. 33 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,000 And it was just one of those things that gradually I came to the realisation that actually, 34 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,000 although I would have loved to stay in academia, it wasn't the top of my priority anymore. 35 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,000 And I think that's okay. I think that's fine to have come to that realisation. 36 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,000 It took me a while to come to that to come to that realisation. 37 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:04,000 But yeah, it's not something that I have no regrets about stopping looking for academic jobs. 38 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,000 There was a point where I just anything came up I went, I didn't want that job. 39 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:15,000 I just looking at the looking at the job description and looking out the work involved and things, that's not I don't think I want it. 40 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:21,000 And when that just kept happening, I thought, yeah. I didn't want any of these jobs. 41 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:28,000 So I started looking outside. And to begin with, I was a bit sort of I felt a bit lost in the. 42 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,000 I had been aiming at this for so long and done this one path. 43 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:38,000 And then I thought, OK, what am I going to do now? What do I even do? 44 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:44,000 And so I look for things sort of within universities and I'm sort of more student support kind of roles and things. 45 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:49,000 But again, there was just nothing that really struck me. I got there were a couple of jobs. 46 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:57,000 I went for that I think I would have really enjoyed it, but I came second for all of them. 47 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:06,000 Which was lovely that they told me that. And also awful that they told me that because I'd have rather come last and just been told, no, it's not so. 48 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,000 But then I sort of thought, well, maybe I don't need to work at a University at all. 49 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:17,000 Maybe all other things. And I actually started looking more at graduate schemes and thinking more. 50 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,000 Is there anything that also like PhD I'm still a graduate. 51 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,000 II can still apply. And there are various things there. 52 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,000 And there are various schemes that actually sort of market themselves. 53 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:36,000 at PhD graduates, as well as other graduates of other levels as well. 54 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:42,000 And so I started sort of looking at much more widely than I had been before. 55 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,000 And I actually heard about the civil service scheme on a train. 56 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:54,000 Just people behind me were talking and I was really nice. So they were sort of just talking about their current roles and everything. 57 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,000 And I was thinking, oh, like sounds interesting. Like what the scheme that they're on. 58 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:05,000 And I had a look at it. And it's actually designed not just for fresh undergraduates that are leaving university 59 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:11,000 but for a career changes and people are all different stages of their careers. 60 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:12,000 And I quite liked that. 61 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:21,000 It specifically says we are not just a graduate scheme and we're not just for 20 and 21 year olds that have just finished their degrees and things. 62 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:26,000 So I sort of looked into it and to be honest, just that and an application on the off chance. 63 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:33,000 And then, I mean, it's a very long process. So the longer I went into it, the more I said I actually really want this 64 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:34,000 I want I want a place. 65 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:41,000 And so, yeah, it was as soon as I sort of got more more involved in the process and through the application, the more I thought, yeah. 66 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,000 I think this is a really good move for me, 67 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:52,000 something that I think I can apply myself to and having a bit more experience beyond sort of having through my page. 68 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:59,000 The experience I've got and through working elsewhere as well, I think we'll actually be really beneficial. 69 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:06,000 So, yeah, there are absolutely no regrets on the journey I've taken to get to this point. 70 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:12,000 But it just took me a little bit of time to come to come to the realisation of what I sort of wanted and needed. 71 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,000 To be honest, this is for my own personal wellbeing. 72 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:21,000 I think this is a really good decision. And ever since I've sort of had the plan of life. 73 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:27,000 Now I know that I'm going somewhere else. I'm going off in this direction. Sort of felt almost lighter. 74 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,000 Yeah, this is great. I haven't felt that for a while. So that's where. 75 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:37,000 Good. This kind of thing where it's important to think that not just the things you enjoy, that you really enjoy teaching. 76 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:46,000 So what kind of life you want. Yeah. And a lot of the academic opportunities and I like them around you and finding just didn't fit with the kind of life. 77 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:52,000 Yeah, absolutely. And I'm like, I think there are people that can say, yeah, 78 00:07:52,000 --> 00:08:00,000 I'm happy to go through a few years of temporary contracts in the hope that I can then go on to a permanent one eventually. 79 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,000 And that's great. And that is originally what I thought I would have to do. 80 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:08,000 But the more I thought about it, the just the more I think I don't I don't want to have to. 81 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:16,000 As soon as I go into a job, I start looking for another one, because that's pretty much all I have done. 82 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,000 So throughout my PhD, I was on sort of temporary contracts anyway, 83 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,000 which didn't matter because they were part time and I was always, always able to get another one. 84 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:32,000 But then I was immediately looking for jobs as soon as I had finished and then immediately looking for other jobs. 85 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,000 Once I got the one I was in and I was just done with the job search. 86 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,000 If I'm honest, there's only so many applications I can start and then maybe fill out. 87 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:45,000 And then the competition obviously is always so high. 88 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:57,000 So just for my own for my own sake, I thought it's okay to have priorities the on going into a research job or an academic job. 89 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,000 I still I've still continued to do some research when I have the time. 90 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:07,000 I mean, having a full time job makes that less likely. But I've got an article coming out soon in a journal and things like that. 91 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:15,000 I still really like my research. I haven't completely fallen out of love with everything I've done, but it's much more. 92 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:20,000 I can do it on my own terms. There's no pressure or I can do what I want when I want. 93 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:28,000 If someone likes it, they'll publish it. Great. But there's no sort of expectation that I have to get so many publications out. 94 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,000 I have to get this experience in order to get this job. I might only have for six months. 95 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,000 And that's having that knowledge as much. 96 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,000 It's just so much calmer in my life. Yeah. 97 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,000 And it sounds like looking at said you were feeling a bit lost when you made that decision. 98 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:49,000 Like when. Sure. Went to. Yeah. Graduate schemes. Kind of gave you that structure to that. 99 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:55,000 It did. Yeah. It was never it was never something I had even considered at all. 100 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:59,000 I thought, no, I'll stay if I do. I'll keep looking for academic jobs. 101 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:04,000 And if I don't get an academic job, I'll still look in sort of student support 102 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:09,000 And it was only when I thought, why, why do I have this weird thing that I have to stay? 103 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:14,000 Within a university, maybe I don't have to work at a university. It was only then. 104 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:22,000 And obviously there are so many jobs and you have to try and structure it somehow. 105 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,000 Then I sort of thought, well, maybe let's look at the schemes out there. 106 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:31,000 And there are, as I said, there are some that do actually market themselves as PhD level. 107 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:40,000 And they say that they'll give you like a salary increase if you've got a PhD over a bachelors or a masters, so that there are schemes out there. 108 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,000 And I was when I discovered that, then I thought, oh, okay, well, maybe I can look at some of these. 109 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:51,000 I mean, investment banking isn't what I'm actually interested in. So I didn't apply for quite a lot of them. 110 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,000 But there are still schemes out there that value these. 111 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:01,000 There are there's more resources, I think, for science PhDs than there are for humanities PhDs 112 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,000 In terms of moving into industry or moving outside of universities. 113 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:11,000 But there are schemes out there and there are there are people that have made the move, too. 114 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:18,000 So, yeah, I think discovering that was was really good as a way of at least starting to structure my search. 115 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:23,000 And then I had just a lucky train journey. So what was the process like? 116 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,000 You said it was quite an involved process. Yeah. So it's a really involved process. 117 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:36,000 So I sent the initial application in in October and then I had to go through two rounds of online tests, 118 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:41,000 which are so it's not really verbal reasoning or anything, which is why I expected it to be. 119 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:48,000 It's kind of they give you a scenario and you have to say which decision is more more valid or you have to sort of say what you would do, 120 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,000 that kind of thing. And then if you pass that, there's a video interview, 121 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,000 which is one of the strange experiences I've ever had because there wasn't a person on the other end. 122 00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:04,000 It's just a pre-recorded question, which then you have certain time to answer the question in and then off your recording goes. 123 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:12,000 So I was sitting in my kitchen sort of looking at my wall, trying to answer, trying to answer questions was a very strange experience. 124 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:20,000 But I did that. And then after that, there's an assessment centre where you actually meet people for the first time 125 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,000 and you're with lots of other people that are also applying to the scheme. 126 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:32,000 You go through various tasks. And and then after that, I waited for 10 weeks and then eventually found out the outcome because they have so 127 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,000 many people that they have to they have to set marks for each of the different schemes, 128 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:43,000 because within the within the whole fast stream scheme, there are fifteen individual streams that you apply for. 129 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:49,000 So they have to sort of set pass marks and gradually narrow the bands and until they have the right number and things like that. 130 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:57,000 So it takes a long time, but it was thankfully worth worth it in the. 131 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:04,000 It has been it was a long process. But Handily, I found out that it was two days after my birthday, which was nice. 132 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:11,000 And also the day before I had an interview for another job, which is fixed term until August. 133 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:16,000 So that's just doing is doing graduation at another university in London. 134 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:22,000 So that was it was quite. I applied just because it was it's more money than I was. 135 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:30,000 I'm on at the moment. And I thought, well, why not? And then but I probably wouldn't have taken it because it's only fixed term until August. 136 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,000 Without the guarantee that I'll have somewhere to go afterwards. 137 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:42,000 But I then yeah, the next day I had the interview and I said, yes, I would take this role if asked, because I've got time, I've got somewhere to go. 138 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,000 And so I say things kind of all fell into place, 139 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:52,000 which was nice because before that things hadn't really felt like they were falling into place at all. 140 00:13:52,000 --> 00:14:02,000 But yes. So that kind of brought my leaving Exeter forward by quite a large, large amount of time, which I will obviously be sad to do 141 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:09,000 I've been here for a really long time. But yeah, I think it's a good move for me to sort of just go. 142 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:14,000 And for once, it's kind of I'm just putting myself first completely as a completely selfish decision that 143 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:20,000 I'm just gonna leave and do something else for five months and then go and do something else. 144 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:28,000 So it's yeah, it's good for me to have a bit of change of scenery and and work out work out what I'm good at again. 145 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:38,000 Yeah. Did you find, say, during the process of applying anything, you applied things from your so p h d time. 146 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:44,000 Yes. Anything learnt skills or how did you sort of transfer this sort of university academic speak I guess. 147 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:53,000 Yeah. Different industries. So I mean I think being able to write well is something that I don't think you can 148 00:14:53,000 --> 00:15:01,000 under estimate writing applications and being able to talk about your experience from 149 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,000 when you go to conferences and people say also you also tell me about you tell me 150 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,000 about your research and you have to suddenly think of something that you hadn't. 151 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:14,000 Considered and this really High-Powered person is asking you about you and you think you need to make yourself sound intelligent. 152 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:22,000 That's really good for interview. So I'm sort of thinking on your feet about examples of things you've done is really helpful. 153 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:28,000 The most helpful thing, though, I think, is just the general project management of doing a PhD. 154 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,000 A PhD is a project and it goes on for a really long time. 155 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:40,000 And you have to manage your time. You have to manage the individual tasks that make up the whole and knowing how to do that. 156 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:49,000 And just that process is so helpful not just for applying and telling people that you're good at project management, but also for in the workplace. 157 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:54,000 I would not be able to organise graduation without any kind of experience of project management. 158 00:15:54,000 --> 00:16:04,000 So it's things like that that I think people don't realise that you're not just go to writing articles and researching a very niche topic. 159 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:09,000 You're also good at thinking more widely and planning really far ahead. 160 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:20,000 Projects go on. These projects go on for years and you know where you are at any given time and can sort of even if not to other people, to yourself. 161 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,000 You can always, you know, 162 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:28,000 roughly when you think you might be finished and sort of you might tell you might tell people that it's a slightly different time. 163 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:34,000 I know I did that. I think I would give a date and then in my head, maybe not that day. 164 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:39,000 But that ability is just so helpful and is an example. 165 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:47,000 that I give in interviews all the time. When people say, oh, tell me about how you manage your workload. 166 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:52,000 Okay, let me tell you a story. Let me tell you all about my PhD 167 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:57,000 So that is by far the thing I apply the most. 168 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:04,000 And just in general, I think having a bit more experience of communicating with people, of having interviews, 169 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:10,000 of applying for things, applying for grants or sort of travel scholarships, things like that. 170 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:23,000 And just a bit more experience of how that process works in writing about the benefits of certain of certain ventures and just in general helps. 171 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,000 I spoke to some people at the assessment centre for the Civil Service. 172 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:33,000 And I mean, I was very flattered because to begin with, they said, what are you studying? I thought, oh, nice. 173 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:39,000 And they said, you know, they'd found the interview really difficult because they weren't sure what to say. 174 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:44,000 They didn't have any concrete examples for things and they weren't sure what to 175 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,000 expect when in a one to one situation with an interview or anything like that. 176 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:53,000 But as a student, you have one to one situations all the time with your supervisor. 177 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,000 And I mean, I don't know about anyone else, but my supervisor used to ask me questions. 178 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:04,000 I did not know the answers so that I had never I hadn't considered before then. 179 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:10,000 And actually that was a real benefit that I had had that experience. I am quite good now at thinking on my feet. 180 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:17,000 When someone asked me a question, I don't know the answer. But that's not something that everybody has. 181 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:25,000 So it's it's those little things that actually can help in terms of applications and talking to people and communicating, 182 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,000 which I don't think you think about very often when you're doing a PhD 183 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:34,000 It's kind of thinking about these sort of general skill terms think about it Like what you're doing is actually project management. 184 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,000 Yeah. Not just working on a PhD. It's this way. Yeah, exactly. 185 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:46,000 Like, really useful generalisable skills. I think sometimes when people say if they I know that when I spoke to family 186 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:51,000 who didn't know what a PhD was and I found it really hard to explain to them. 187 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:55,000 And it's only sort of since finishing that I go it's a really big project and it 188 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:00,000 takes three to four years and you have to plan each individual task and they go, 189 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:09,000 oh, okay. But sort of while I was doing my PhD, I'd say, oh, it's like a big essay like that doesn't cover it at all. 190 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,000 And, you know, trying to explain that, I'm sitting at my computer reading books and writing and people. 191 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:20,000 Okay, I don't really understand what that is and how that counts as work. Yeah. 192 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:28,000 So it is only sort of since finishing I have been able to explain my PhD in terms that aren't just academic. 193 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:38,000 So kind of finding something to be useful if people thought about how to articulate what the individual which is generally just what is a PhD 194 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,000 Yes. Is what it is. Exactly. And I think I don't think there's enough out there. 195 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,000 I don't think people focus on these transferable skills much. 196 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:52,000 There's a lot of emphasis on transferable skills, undergraduate level, 197 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:57,000 because the range of subjects that people do, as I've asked, but I think there is a PhD level, 198 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:06,000 there's less of an emphasis on it because there's an expectation that you'll go on to continue researching, even though so many people don't. 199 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:13,000 That was another thing I felt when I. Was first coming to the realisation that I didn't think I wanted to stay in academia. 200 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:18,000 And I was thinking, well, does this make me a failure? Am I now a failed academic? Is that what I'm going to be called? 201 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:25,000 No. It was only when realising actually how many people I knew that had moved outside of academia. 202 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,000 I know more people that have moved outside of academia than have stayed in it. 203 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:38,000 And it was only when realising that realising that I didn't call them failed. Actually, it was it it was fine. 204 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:43,000 But we do I think we need to have a bit more focus on the fact that lots of people 205 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:50,000 don't continue in a university role or in a in a research based role after their PhD 206 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,000 And that that's okay. 207 00:20:52,000 --> 00:21:04,000 And that a PhD is more than just a research degree is is a feat of product management and time management and managing your own workload 208 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:13,000 and your time and managing to work independently while also having the stresses of the institution or trying to do some teaching. 209 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,000 Or if. 210 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:22,000 If you've got funding bodies that want to know exactly what you're doing and when, then it's there's so much more to it than just the actual thesis. 211 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:28,000 Yeah. Like, I think sometimes it's couched in terms of being like, oh, this is research training, this is your training. 212 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,000 But actually I'm pretty sure the majority of PhDs don't go on. 213 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:39,000 Yeah. Become academics. Certainly the majority that I know aren't academics and some have. 214 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,000 And that's great. Yeah. But lots haven't 215 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:48,000 And they've gone into all kinds of different industries. 216 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,000 And I think. Yeah. I think we need to talk about that just a bit more really. 217 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:59,000 Because it was when I found myself Googling like, what happens if I don't go into academia with a PhD 218 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:07,000 And then like there's a few blog posts and a few things saying, oh, you know, this is what your PhD actually means in terms of skills. 219 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:12,000 And I went, oh my goodness, I have skills. I'm just writing about film studies. 220 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:18,000 So which I knew, I knew I had skill film studies, but. 221 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:23,000 But it's nice to actually have that. I have someone to say it's fine. 222 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:30,000 Yeah. There are other jobs and other jobs that will value your experience as well. 223 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:37,000 Yeah. That will value your experience. And they might like especially like say in your case, fit better with your life. 224 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,000 Yeah. Like, yeah. I think it's okay to put yourself first, 225 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:52,000 which is something that I didn't do during my PhD really at all and wasn't something that I was doing when I first started looking for jobs. 226 00:22:52,000 --> 00:23:02,000 And it was coming to the realisation that I had absolutely no desire to apply for a job that was called what was it called? 227 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:13,000 It was called an unestablished teching fello. I like the fact that that job title even exists, made me go, oh, no, I don't think so. 228 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,000 And I think it's okay to come to that conclusion, I think. 229 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,000 But that's not what I want to say. Yeah. 230 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,000 Like, I've got a partner, I'm ready to maybe buy a house, 231 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:30,000 but actually plant down some roots somewhere rather than constantly wondering where I'm going to be next. 232 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:38,000 So that's that's an okay realisation that I have come to. 233 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,000 And yes, I do miss the teaching. The teaching is the part of it that I do miss. 234 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:48,000 But there are so many in any of the jobs that I would have applied for. 235 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,000 There was so much teaching, plus that it's never just teaching. 236 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:59,000 And that's the same in any teaching profession. And that's not just universities that's teaching in general. 237 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:06,000 And there are always parts of it. I went, oh yeah, I don't think I want that. 238 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,000 But I'm going into the say the stream I'm very into in the civil service is HR. 239 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,000 So it's still really people focussed. And I'm gonna be training, 240 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:22,000 I'm going to be teaching people things and I can use my skills in those ways rather than rather than teaching undergraduates specifically. 241 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,000 Yeah. Is again, thinking about it, the skills and the things you enjoy in broader terms saying, yeah, 242 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:32,000 teaching is not just in schools and university yet it's also training, you know, everywhere. 243 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:39,000 Really. Yeah. And it was sort of when I was thinking about that and I was thinking, yeah, I want to work with people. 244 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:46,000 Definitely I want and I would love to be able to have some kind of teaching role in that. 245 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:53,000 But I don't want to be a school teacher. I know lots of school teachers and I think it's admirable, but it's not something I could ever do. 246 00:24:53,000 --> 00:25:01,000 So and I think, oh, well, what am I going to do then? And then I was thinking, well, actually, I've gone to training, such as in my job. 247 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,000 So people run those. That's that's a thing that people do. 248 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:10,000 And yeah. So it was coming to the conclusions. Really? 249 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,000 I just needed to start thinking outside the box a bit more. 250 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:19,000 And there aren't just certain jobs that you have to go in to that there's all kinds of all kinds of roles that 251 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:26,000 you can fulfil and still work with people and still train people and have pass on knowledge and things like that. 252 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:36,000 So, yeah, that's. It's been a long time coming, but it's realisations that I gradually made over sort of the last year. 253 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:46,000 Yeah. And if, say, someone else, or even just know your past self kind of in the middle of their PhD trying to figure out what they want to do next. 254 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:54,000 Is there any kind of experience you can recommend them getting or anything that you think would be helpful for them to think that would do? 255 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,000 I think just thinking about overall what you'd like from a job. 256 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:08,000 So I'm in very broad terms, so I'd like to be able to manage someone or I'm not interested in management, 257 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,000 but I would like to work with people or in some kind of training capacity. 258 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:18,000 So very broad terms that on are neither academic nor non academic. 259 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:27,000 First of all, just to give you a better idea of any kind of sector that you might be able to go in, cause I certainly to begin with was very limiting. 260 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:34,000 I was I limited myself to sort of higher education. It's a sector I feel really strongly about. 261 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,000 And so I thought, yeah, fine, higher education. 262 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:45,000 But there are so many different roles within higher education that you still need to have sort of an idea of what you want to do. 263 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,000 And I think it's okay to be choosy about jobs. 264 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:54,000 There was a period of time where I sort of just applied for anything I thought I was vaguely qualified for. 265 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,000 But then I thought, actually, would I want this job at all? And I really thought about it. 266 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:07,000 The answer was no. So having an idea of at least the kind of role you want and then having a look at what's out there and thinking, 267 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:13,000 okay, so I want to work with people, well, that can mean what kind of people do I want to work with? 268 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,000 And then that can point down all kinds of different roads that sort of aren't what you expected. 269 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:22,000 I certainly three years ago would never have said that I was gonna go into H.R. and the civil service. 270 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:30,000 That's not something that I had ever considered, but sort of just don't feel like you need to limit yourself. 271 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:35,000 And thinking in those broad terms can help that, I think. 272 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:41,000 But it can be a it can be a scary place to try and just go. I need a job. 273 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:54,000 I don't know where I am. So, yes, I resisted the urge at one point just to sort of send out a CV and say needs job wll, travel. 274 00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:01,000 But yeah, thinking about that in more broad terms and then being able to pinpoint your sort of top five. 275 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:07,000 So I wanted a permanent job or at least something that would lead to a permanent job. 276 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:12,000 And that was really high up on my list of priorities. And then as soon as you've got those priorities, 277 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:20,000 you know sort of what jobs you can apply for and what jobs really aren't worth the application process, 278 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:26,000 because often, especially with academic jobs, I found I was putting my absolute all into an application only to be turned down. 279 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:32,000 And there are only so many rejections you can take before you start taking it personally. 280 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:38,000 So I think and on all of those, I have seen no doubt that really my application, 281 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:43,000 if you read if you read between the lines, you could see that it was not the job that I wanted. 282 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:49,000 And churning out applications will do that sort of you'll become very generic. 283 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:55,000 So having those sort of top five things that you're looking for that you won't compromise on. 284 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,000 So I want a permanent job. I want to work with people. 285 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:05,000 To be honest, they were my top two things. I wasn't really that fussed after that. 286 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:13,000 But at least something, at least some kind of priority will then help you draw your line as to what you apply for and what you do. 287 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:18,000 Yeah. So just spending some time really reflecting on what matters to them as well. 288 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,000 Yet priorities and and thinking about whether you stay in academia or not. 289 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,000 Like, where do those priotities fit in. Yeah, absolutely. 290 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:34,000 And I mean, to begin with, one of my priorities was I want to be able to carry on my research. 291 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:41,000 And flexible working options are certainly that that covers that. 292 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:46,000 I have no desire to completely give up research altogether. 293 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:52,000 I've spent so long researching and it's part of what I do. And I think it's part of me as a person. 294 00:29:52,000 --> 00:30:02,000 So I have no desire to completely stop. But the ability to do it in my own time and research exactly what I want when sort of inspiration 295 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:08,000 strikes is I think will be better for my research as a whole and better for me and say. 296 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:13,000 A flexible working option is always better. 297 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:19,000 So I at the beginning of this year, in my current role, had flexible working, approved where I worked. 298 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:27,000 Condensed hours. They worked longer, longer hours on four days and then had a day off each week, which meant that I could do whatever I wanted. 299 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,000 I didn't have to do research. There were days I did not. 300 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:38,000 But then there were also days that I sort of sat down with my computer again and got my academic head back on and. 301 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:45,000 And I've got an article coming out hopefully soon, depending on whether they accept my recent corrections. 302 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:51,000 But yeah. So that's that's something that I've been able to keep hold of. 303 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:59,000 And and sort of keeps part of my academic identity in a way, because it is an important part of me. 304 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:04,000 And it's not something that I haven't. As I say, I haven't grown to hate my research. 305 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:13,000 That's not what's happened at all. But those priorities have sort of helped change the way I look at the job search in general. 306 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:18,000 Yeah. So kind of spending some time reflecting on your priorities. 307 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:26,000 And then also revisiting them in case they do. Yeah. Like, originally, your priority was to get an academic job that kind of shifted and then. 308 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,000 Yeah. Thinking about how you can integrate all these different things. 309 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,000 So it's not like if you do still want to research, you won't necessarily have to just shut a door. 310 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:41,000 Yeah. Absolutely. No one. I don't know anyone, not even academics who only research for their entire time. 311 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:51,000 And then they go. This is my researching time and that's it. So sort of you don't you don't have to close doors to anywhere. 312 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:58,000 I think there's absolutely nothing that says that you have to be a lecturer at a university in order to be published as an academic. 313 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:03,000 So it's a there's you shouldn't limit yourself. 314 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:13,000 I don't think. It's okay to say I'd like to be sort of a casual research and do it as a hobby rather than rather than do it as my only job, I think. 315 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:18,000 I think in many ways I would be better as a casual researcher. 316 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:28,000 So, yeah, I think just keeping being mindful of what you want and what your initial reactions are two things. 317 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:34,000 Certainly when I started realising I was looking at jobs and going, there's a job that I could apply for. 318 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,000 Do I really want this job? 319 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:42,000 And suddenly realising that I was hesitating so much more on job applications and going, maybe I should listen to myself a bit more. 320 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:48,000 I clearly don't want this job. Let's not spend three days working on an application for it and sort of just. 321 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,000 Yeah, being aware of what your own gut feelings are about things, 322 00:32:52,000 --> 00:33:03,000 because I started realising that actually being happy in what ever job I was doing was actually much more important to me than the job itself. 323 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:10,000 And it has made such a difference since having something fall into place. 324 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:17,000 I have been like a different person and everyone has noticed. 325 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:28,000 And I will be so sad to leave Exeter and I don't know what I'm going to do when I actually have to leave because I will have to probably be prised away. 326 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:35,000 But it's it's good to stretch out of it and go in a different direction sometimes. 327 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:40,000 That's what people need. Sometimes I think it's okay to have you can feel both these things. 328 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,000 You can feel a desire to move to something else and still feel sad. Yeah. 329 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,000 It's not like, oh, you should only look elsewhere if absolutely hate it. 330 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:59,000 Yeah. I think was the thing. You don't have to sort of taking a change of direction doesn't have to be out of loathing for what you currently have. 331 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:06,000 It can just be, you know. Well, I think it would be really great if I did this for a bit, and that's fine. 332 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:13,000 But I don't think I don't think we really talk about any directions in terms of when people are doing a PhD 333 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:21,000 It's kind of. Finish your thesis and then all after that, you'll go into a researching post, which is not the case. 334 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:28,000 It's not as easy for anyone, but it's kind of the expected trajectory. 335 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:34,000 And yeah, I think no one ever sort of mentions that sometimes people don't want to do that, and that's fine. 336 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:40,000 And maybe we can maybe we can talk a little bit more about what people might do if they 337 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,000 decide they don't want to go into a  PhD can be used as a trial at the end of the day. 338 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:55,000 If you don't if you decide at the end of it that you don't like the process of researching, then you don't have to stay in research. 339 00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:01,000 And you said you worked part time alongside doing a part-time PhD 340 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:09,000 Did doing that help at all with you? Kind of. I think it kind of helped me. 341 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:20,000 Come to the realisations that there was other work that existed and kind of helped keep me grounded in the real world as well as in academia. 342 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:31,000 There were certainly times when it was hard to juggle my two my two identities of academic and not academic. 343 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:38,000 But I think it did help to a certain extent that I thought, well, I've been doing this throughout my PhD anyway. 344 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,000 There's clearly nothing wrong with doing the two. 345 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:50,000 So why can't I do the two forever? And just because my PhD is finished, it didn't mean that my interest in research finished. 346 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:59,000 But it certainly made me more aware of the fact that there are other roles that I am suited to. 347 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,000 I absolutely loved all of the all of the temporary jobs I did during my PhD 348 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:10,000 There was nothing that I thought I never doing with ever again. And so it did help to a certain extent. 349 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:16,000 There was also, I think, the fact that I was working and then I needed a full time job. 350 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:23,000 Obviously, there was left. I had less time to think about whether I would go into a teaching post where research pays. 351 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:28,000 There wasn't anything that was immediately available as soon as I finish my PhD 352 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,000 And therefore, it was going to be non academic. And I knew that and that was fine. 353 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:38,000 I still continue to look for academic jobs, but it was certainly quicker in that immediate period. 354 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,000 I didn't have sort of any time at all. I didn't have months of going. 355 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:47,000 OK, well, I've got this very small amounts of teaching. 356 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,000 Will it maybe go anywhere else? Like, could I try and extend it in any way, 357 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:59,000 which I know that I know people that that they've had to do that process where they've had sort of two seminars a week or a few hours teaching a week. 358 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,000 And that's been fine for a little bit. And then they've got to the point where they've gone. 359 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:06,000 Well, now I need something more than that. But I don't know if I'm gonna be offered it. 360 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:14,000 And I don't know if if there's a process for it. So my my sort of immediate cut was very I was much quicker. 361 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:19,000 I said, well, I need a full time job. There isn't currently one available. There's one here. 362 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:30,000 And that's where I went. But again, it's it's still my skills hasn't changed because I've left academia. 363 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,000 I am still the exact same person I was when I was doing my PhD 364 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:40,000 And I think that took me a little while to realise that actually doing a non-academic job didn't make me a different person. 365 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:49,000 I was still a doctor and I still have that vocation and I'm still using stuff from doing a PhD 366 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:55,000 So, yeah, that took me a little bit longer. The acknowledgement of the non-academic world was quick, 367 00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:01,000 but the acknowledgement that I wasn't a different person in their world was quite a long time, really. 368 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,000 Then that came. That came afterwards. 369 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:11,000 So kind of thinking about your identity as an academic and what it means if you're not in academia and your interests and skills. 370 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:17,000 And I guess a bit like you were saying before, you have you develop all these generalisable massive generalisable skills in a PhD 371 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:22,000 which aren't necessarily always talked about as much they should be. And I guess the same goes for your identity. 372 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,000 Yes. Like, you are just a human. 373 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:34,000 Yes, exactly. And sort of I sort of put myself in a box of PhD these students, for such a long time and became. 374 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:39,000 By the end of my PhD So good at trying to explain what that meant. 375 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:48,000 And trying to justify the fact that it is a job doing a PhD, because so many people don't understand that actually doing PhD is a job. 376 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:54,000 And it's it can sometimes be draining, saying, yes, I'm a student, but I'm also I'm not really a student. 377 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,000 Well, you think I'm saying when I say I'm a student is not what I am. 378 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,000 And sort of put a I had myself I am a PhD student. 379 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:07,000 That is what I am. This is what I do on a day to day basis. 380 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:11,000 Sometimes outside of that, I also go and work and do all of these other things. 381 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,000 But in my head, that was it was just two separate things. 382 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:21,000 It was two separate completely two separate roles that I did when no, I was still the same person in both of those roles. 383 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:26,000 And it's just that I did research and one of them and I didn't do research at another. 384 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:32,000 But I still put I've managed and I still taught people how to do things. 385 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:40,000 It was just not teaching students about film. It was teaching staff about systems. 386 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:47,000 You know, it's the same skill and it's still I use the same skills that I did for my PhD for every other role. 387 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:57,000 But I haven't I hadn't even considered that that was the case while I was doing my PhD which sounds really silly in hindsight. 388 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:02,000 Of course, I wasn't literally two different people. I can feel like that sometimes. 389 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:10,000 I think that you can be so involved in your PhD project that it's kind of like looking through a tunnel. 390 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,000 And when you're in that tunnel, there's nothing else. 391 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:22,000 You're not. You're not outside of it in any way. And everyone that even sort of mentions your PhD or comes into that tunnel with you would never leave. 392 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:27,000 It was like that's that's the only context in which you in which you refer to them. 393 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:39,000 But that's not that's not the case. And it's once I realised that maybe I could use the skills I was using during my PhD for other things. 394 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:46,000 I became a lot more enlightened in my own job search and sort of thinking about what I wanted and 395 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,000 realising that I could use it to my advantage rather than thinking about myself as a failed academic, 396 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,000 which is for a while. Why? So I thought, wow. So yeah. 397 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,000 So it's kind of thinking about what your priorities are in general. 398 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:03,000 And then also thinking about what skills you actually do have from your PhD 399 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,000 kind of decompartmentalising it. Yeah. 400 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:12,000 PhD life to actually even though for you you were doing it literally at the same time it still was like this. 401 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:19,000 Yeah. And I said things are kind of pointing out how you think about what you're doing and how that fits your priorities and what jobs there. 402 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:25,000 Yeah, absolutely. And yeah decompartmentalising is exactly why I would say because I had, 403 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:33,000 I had completely compartmentalised my life into little boxes that sort of okay today I'm putting on this hat and then I will 404 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:39,000 put on another hat and then I'll go home and I might put on another hat because no one wants to talk about the PhD all the time. 405 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:47,000 So it's realising that actually maybe you can just wear one hat and you're different things with that. 406 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:58,000 So it is. Yeah, definitely part of my journey especially and has been very helpful in sort of the last 407 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:03,000 year where I've come to terms with with what I originally had deemed as failure. 408 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:11,000 And now I have no regrets whatsoever. So now you wouldn't call it academic failure? 409 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,000 No. Something else is there? No. 410 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:24,000 I mean, someone I know did say I did say to me that there are lots of people in the civil service who are in academic rehab. 411 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:33,000 But I didn't think I. I don't think I want to call it rehab, because that makes academia sound even worse than I even think it is. 412 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:38,000 So I don't think I mean, I don't need to go into rehab for academia. 413 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:42,000 But no, I don't know if there's a word. A word for. 414 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:51,000 But just there is this there is this idea that if you don't go into an academic job, that you have somehow failed at academia. 415 00:42:51,000 --> 00:43:00,000 I mean, you can't fail at academia. That's not a thing. And everyone has their own has their own journeys and their own priorities in life. 416 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,000 And I think as long as you have found out what yours are. 417 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,000 And it might be that your priority is getting the academic job. 418 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:14,000 And that's fine. That's there's nothing wrong with that either. But if it's not your priority, that is also okay. 419 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:19,000 And we although there won't be people around that tell you that that's okay. 420 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:29,000 Is okay. And having at least having an idea of what your priorities are is just so it's just so important. 421 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:37,000 Because for for years my priority was finishing my PhD and that was really all I thought about for the whole time. 422 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,000 And then when I eventually finished it, I went, well, what now? 423 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:50,000 What do I do? And there's the weird interim period anyway, when you submit and then you have nothing to do because you can't read it straight away. 424 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:59,000 Why? I don't know anyone that would do that to themselves. And if if they were, I would strongly recommend not doing it. 425 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:04,000 But there's sort of that weird time where you have literally nothing to do. 426 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:13,000 Until then, you prepare for the viva. And then you invariably get corrections today, which that was. 427 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:18,000 It was a hard time trying to complete the corrections while also in a full time job. 428 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,000 But I did it and that was fine. 429 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:28,000 Luckily, my corrections were only minor, so I was able to do it sort of of an evening over the course of a couple of weeks. 430 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:33,000 And. And that was all fine. And then it kind of all well then just ended. 431 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,000 I thought, well, is that it? Now, why am I not an academic anymore? 432 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,000 And the answer is no. 433 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:52,000 I am still very much an academic in that I like to do research and I still classed myself as academically minded if there is such a thing. 434 00:44:52,000 --> 00:45:00,000 But I'm just not working in academia and I'm much happier for it, I think. 435 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:16,431 And that's it for this episode. Join us next time when we'll be talking to another researcher about that career beyond their research degree.  

SHR # 2359 :: How To Be Your Own Bodybuilding Coach : Dr. Scott Stevenson, PhD - So many people make little progress until they hire a coach. Why is that? What does a coach bring to the party? Is it possible to do it all yourself? The answer is yes but you've got to learn these things first.

SHR # 2359 :: How To Be Your Own Bodybuilding Coach : Dr. Scott Stevenson, PhD - So many people make little progress until they hire a coach. Why is that? What does a coach bring to the party? Is it possible to do it all yourself? The answer is yes but you've got to learn these things first.

I talk a lot about the power of your thoughts and the power of yours words. This has been the single most powerful thing that I’ve done on my journey through self discovery to living fully alive. And it’s watching what comes out of my mouth. I think about the power of my words, and how important it is to train our brains, train yourself to believe something, that’s all our beliefs are anyways, something that we’ve told oursevles over and over again enough times that we believe it is true. Our words are so powerful. They literally create neuropathways in our brain that end up being the road map to our entire life. It’s how we interpret our lives, by the affirmations we are affirming to ourselves every day. You are already saying affirmations every day whether you realize it or not. The stories you tell yourself every day: This is a really hard week. I’m so exhausted. I’m so stressed out. I’m so overwhelmed. There aren’t any people in my town that I’d want to be friends with, money doesn’t grow on trees, I’ve always been broke, I’m so sick, it’s just genetic, people are so stupid, no one will want to buy this from me, I can’t speak to save my life, I’m so awkward... These are all affirmations. Everything coming out of your mouth is an affirmation. Your brain can’t judge for you. And when they are unconscious, you never have any control over what these affirmations are. They are default. The same things that were taught to you by your parents, church, school, friends, environment, culture etc - and they could be the cause of some really deep pain in your life. It takes everything you say or think as fact. It’s up to YOU to challenge your thoughts and rewrite them if they aren’t what you want to be true. So I want to help you effectively train your brain so that you DO have choice over your life. Choice over what you are affirming. So that you are affirming things that are life giving. That you choose to believe the best about who you are, and the best about the world. Because it’s all relative. BEACH BALL STORY So let’s train our brains the way we want to. That rigs life in our favor. Let’s exercise our creative agency, and affirm some powerful beliefs in our life. But before I share 4 tips on supercharging your affirmations… I’ll have to explain one of the biggest problems with them. People will create these great affirmations and start saying them daily. They sound good, they are formulated correctly, they should be working. BUT HERE IS THE Problem with affirmations: When you say something over and over again but your BODY doesn’t believe it - it’s going to be incongruent and it won’t take root. If your physiology isn’t engaged, you body says NOPE. We can’t get there. There is discord and you can’t really believe it. So the secret is engaging your body. Y’ALL THIS IS PROFOUND. When you learn how to do this, it will be a game changer for your affirmations. It will actually rewire your brain so quickly. And it will knock fear in the face. It will create a state that is magnetic. That pulls things to you. That manifests what you are working on creating. The secret is in the body. Just saying your affirmations is not enough. And this is why Tony Robbins changed the name from affirmation to INCANTATION. It’s a small but POWERFUL distinction. “An incantation is not only that you speak it, but you embody what you are saying with all the intensity that you can. And then you do it with enough repetitions that it sticks in your head. If you don’t change your physiology you won’t get anything.” - Tony Robbins We don’t hope to be in a good state, we demand it. And we do this through engaging our bodies. We are signaling to our central nervous system that we are READY! When you say your affirmations from now on, you have to get your body in a peak state. So I want to share with you my 4 secrets to supercharge your affirmations by engaging your BODY. 4 Secrets: Stand up - engage your whole body - One of Tony’s incantations “God’s wealth is circulating in my life, it flows to me in avalanches of abundance, all my needs, desires and goals, instantaneously appear by infinite intelligence for I am one with God and God is everything!" Energy/Emotions - actor playing out a role. We want every affirmation to generate an emotion. Because our emotions are like magnets. They call in the same vibration. Emotions are just vibrations. And we create them. If I told you to get really sad right now, could you do it? Yes or no? YES. If I told you to get happy right now could you do it, yes or no? Yes. Even though positive emotions feel a little harder sometimes because we don’t have as much practice feeling them. And our negative emotions are often much easier to get to because we’ve just practiced them to the point where it feels easy and natural. But our emotions are magnets. When we feel love - we attract love. When we feel generosity we attract generosity. It colors our lens. It’s what we experience, it’s what we see. It’s a state we are in. But we can CREATE emotions and energy. Like an actor... Shake your head up and down for yes FEEL gratitude - elevated feeling at the end. Visualize it. Feel it as though it were already true. Pause after the hype to slow down and feel the gratitude in your heart. What does gratitude feel like? Where do you feel it? Train your body! “The heart generates the largest electromagnetic field in the body… The electrical field is about 60 times great in amplitude than the brain waves. The magnetic component of the heart’s field, which is around 100 times stronger than that produced by the brain…can be measured several feet away from the body.” -Rollin McCraty, PhD So y’all the secret is in your physiology - so use this to your advantage. When you work out - do your affirmations. When you’re in the car - scream your affirmations. Find places where you can get to an elevated emotion and move that body as you affirm to your brain your best life! YES YES YES!  

How to Integrate #BeFirst into YOUR Training #BeFirst can be a little daunting at first. When and where do you implement the training? How? AND how and when is the best time to get the most benefit? What do you pair it with? Gym session? Skill session? Seperate to anything else? Well we have the answers for you right here and its very simple. #BeFirst was created by a Neuro Performance specialist who works WITH athletes. So we know how much athletes have on their plate. We know athletes want a lot of bang for their buck AND we know athletes like quick results without getting into over training. #BeFirst is designed in APP form so that you can use it anywhere anytime. Of course you can use it when you get a few minutes. The more the better. BUT there are also great reasons to integrate #BeFirst into your other training sessions and its very easy to do. The MAIN reason for the integration of #BeFirst is Neural. You are training neural pathways all the time. These pathways can be great skills that you have practised for years and are second nature, or they can be skills that need more work and refinement. For example, When a pathway in the brain is very refined and perfected, that pathway can be paired with a pathway that is not as excellent. This pairing can help the less defined pathway become stronger. Think of it as a good pathway giving a crappy pathway a helping hand. This is happening in your BRAIN simply by doing a skill or movement your are really good at, then a skill or movement you are NOT as good at. THIS HELPS the crappy skill (pathway) improve faster. To quote “During the initial studies of stimulation induced plasticity, it was noted that when a weak input, that was insufficient to induce synaptic plasticity on its own, immediately followed a strong input, the weak input could be strengthened. Therefore when a neuron is already sufficiently stimulated by one pathway, it becomes sensitised to inputs from addition pathways. In other words, if a synapse from neuron A is strongly driving neuron B when an input from neuron C arrives, then the synapse from neuron C will increase in strength. This is what we mean by “neurons that fire together wire together” Jeffrey Kleim, PHD So find the features in #BeFirst that you are best at. And use those features by pairing them with a skill you are still trying to improve in. ALSO If you find a feature in #BeFirst that you really struggle with. Pair it with a skill or movement you are really good at. This will help speed up your improvement. For example - If you are very very good at squats, and you know your peripheral vision is poor, Do a full set of squats at a decent weight (not an easy weight) Then use RECOGNITION in #BeFirst The good pathways will assist the weaker ones! Integration of #BeFirst in a GYM session Most athletes hit the gym 2-6 times per week for some type of strength training to supplement the needs of their sport. #BeFirst can slot into your gym routine fairly easily. SUPREMACY is designed to assist you in tracking and graphing your most common athletic benchmarks. Use Supremacy each time you train these lifts. You can also use features that complement your focus for the session. ACCELERATE features can be paired with sessions that have a focus on power and speed, such as sessions involving bigger compound lifts and especially those involving olympic lifts Eye work can also supplement a strength and conditioning routine. FUSION can give you more stability, accuracy and neural drive. Skills sessions #BeFirst can be used to assist with the practice of your specific skill set. Again you can use your best skills (pathways) to enhance the skills that you struggle with by pairing them together. "Cells that fire together, wire together. Cells that fire out of sync, lose their link." For Example, ANY Sports specific skill with Dynamic recognition Fusion Dynamic speed test Stroop test or Switch - to add cognitive load Or work on your visual processing skills with RAPID REACT - Don’t forget we have two eyes so try rapid react with your weaker eye. The #BeFirst GUIDE is included in the app itself. It gives you the list of highest priority features for YOUR SPORT. We recommend you begin your integration with the highest priority features first. Check out the guide and start! Try out a few of the examples. Then email us on hi@be-first.co to let us know how you are getting on. Want more specific sessions tailored to you? Contact hi@be-first.co to discuss individual programs using Neuro Performance techniques and #BeFirst. #BeFirst……. Because nobody remembers last. Be-First.co  website: www.SaberWaves.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/saberwavescoaching Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saberwavesCoaching Twitter: https://twitter.com/saber_waves

Host: Jack Lewin, MD Guest: John Rumsfeld, MD, PhD So much of our clinical interaction with patients revolves around the collection, analysis and application of information. On a much broader scale, data registries work to assemble the information from each and every one of these clinical encounters. In this age of information, there is so much data at our fingertips, it is easy to be excited about the potential. How are we harnessing the information available to us, toward the improvement of clinical outcomes? Dr. John Rumsfeld, professor of medicine at the University of Colorado School of Medicine, and chief science officer for the National Cardiovascular Data Registry, an initiative led by the American College of Cardiology Foundation, talks with host Dr. Jack Lewin.

Host: Jack Lewin, MD Guest: John Rumsfeld, MD, PhD So much of our clinical interaction with patients revolves around the collection, analysis and application of information. On a much broader scale, data registries work to assemble the information from each and every one of these clinical encounters. In this age of information, there is so much data at our fingertips, it is easy to be excited about the potential. How are we harnessing the information available to us, toward the improvement of clinical outcomes? Dr. John Rumsfeld, professor of medicine at the University of Colorado School of Medicine, and chief science officer for the National Cardiovascular Data Registry, an initiative led by the American College of Cardiology Foundation, talks with host Dr. Jack Lewin.