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If you love an episode that spirals into laughter, chaos, and fiery debate, this one's for you. Andy, Rick, and Sarah dive headfirst into the most Googled running questions, unpacking them one by one. Expect big laughs, spirited discussions and genuinely useful tips and advice - all rolled into one!The Running Channel Podcast tackles one big topic each episode, amongst helpful tips and light-hearted chat on the latest news in the running world. Hosted by Sarah Hartley (amateur runner) and Andy Baddeley (former pro runner) alongside Rick Kelsey (recovering runner), the TRC Podcast is friendly, jargon-free, and the perfect accompaniment to your runs.Join The Running Channel Club for exclusive additional podcast episodes, bite-sized courses, live Q&As and so much more! Head to The Running Channel ClubFor all enquiries contact podcast@therunningchannel.com .If you liked this, please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And leave us a 5* review and rating, it really helps us get discovered.We're on YouTube too, so check us out there: www.youtube.com/runningchannel .Mentioned in this episode:Wahoo KICKR RUNScott Running

Happy Shane Hollander Day! Is Gentleman Jack coming back? We Googled Eagle Sex for You! Please subscribe, rate and review! You can find us on Instagram and Facebook @shenerdsoutpodcast, on Twitter @SNOPodcast and on Bluesky @shenerdsout.bsk.social. You can send us an email at shenerdsout@gmail.com! We have merch! Go to www.SheNerdsOut.com for all your SNOPing needs. Anne Hicks-Bleecker is our Producer and @nerdybutch manages our social media. 

“What does it really mean to be an expert in America today?” That's the question Sandy throws at Tricia as they kick off a lively, laugh-out-loud episode of The Sandy Show! From the moment the mics go live, Sandy and Tricia's chemistry is electric—playful banter, witty jabs, and genuine warmth set the tone for a morning that's as unpredictable as it is entertaining.This episode is packed with nostalgia and surprises. Sandy and Tricia take you on a whirlwind tour of 2006, reminiscing about the year Pluto lost its planet status, Twitter was born (with a hilarious story about Lance Armstrong's introduction), and Dexter changed the way we binge-watch TV forever. Tricia's confession—“It was like the second part of my life began when I discovered binging”—will resonate with anyone who's ever lost a weekend to a great show.But it's not all throwbacks! The duo dives into the upcoming Super Bowl, teasing celebrity-packed commercials featuring Lady Gaga, Kendall Jenner, Emma Stone, Pete Davidson, and more. Tricia's take on Andy Cohen's nerds candy ad (“I will officially boycott nerds candy. Even the nerds clusters? I cannot.”) is a must-hear moment that'll have you laughing out loud.Sandy's quirky observations—like the most-Googled winter storm recipe (white chicken chili!) and the “expertise” Americans claim in reality TV—spark hilarious debates. Tricia's candid reactions (“I do not watch reality television because it makes me so uncomfortable.”) and Sandy's playful ribbing keep the energy high.The episode also delivers heartfelt insights, from the importance of mixing up your workout routine (thanks to a Harvard study) to the surprising health risks of being a night owl. And don't miss the jaw-dropping story of a forgotten lottery ticket worth $50,000—Tricia's outrage is pure gold!Memorable Quotes & Moments:“You're only as old as you think you are.”“I loved Tom Selleck. Magnum PI and the shorts and the Ferrari. The mustache. Loved everything about Tom Selleck.”“I will officially boycott nerds candy. Even the nerds clusters? I cannot.”“It was like the second part of my life began when I discovered binging.”Why Listen?This episode is a rollercoaster of nostalgia, pop culture, and real-life laughs. Sandy and Tricia's dynamic is infectious, their stories relatable, and their insights both hilarious and thought-provoking. Whether you're a morning go-getter or a high-maintenance night owl, you'll find something to love—and laugh about—on The Sandy Show.Call to Action:

Kiera is joined by Dr. Paul Etchison to talk about changing the mindset of turnover = failure. This transition is part of the evolution of leadership. Both Kiera and Dr. Etchison share their own experiences in remaining true to core values, and keeping their definitions of success separate from whether a team member stuck around or not. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is an extra special day. I have one of my faves and every time we podcast, people say, you two just seem like you love each other so much. And I really do. I've been to this man's practice. We've been friends in the industry for I don't even know how many years pre-COVID. That's a long time. And we've been on each other's podcasts a lot. He has an incredible podcast. He's an incredible human, incredible friend, incredible mentor. I got the one and only Paul Etchison on the podcast today. Welcome. How are you today, Paul?   Paul Etchison (00:28) Hey, I'm good. And I was just thinking about how you mentioned like the pre-COVID thing. You texted me a picture of when you came into my practice for two days. And it was like before COVID. And what was funny about it, and I don't know if it's funny or not, but like I looked at it and half of my team has turned over. They're all new people. So I know. ⁓   Kiera Dent (00:36) cute.   Mm-hmm.   It's real life, Paul. That's real life. It is funny and isn't because I go back and I used to   be embarrassed about that. So let's just kind of highlight on that. I used to actually be very embarrassed of like, my gosh, I don't have senior team members. And like, I hate the question. There was a hot minute. The Dental A Team felt like I was Johnny Depp in the middle of the ocean and my boat was full blown on fire. And I was like, I just hope another one shows up soon. Like I hope something comes. ⁓   And then I realized that's business ownership. Like that's real life. And yes, we built these great cultures, but you outgrow team members and team members outgrow you in life circumstances. And I'd rather be honest and real rather than perfect. And so the fact that like teams shift in a lot, mean, shoot, I used to have this vision board, Paul, you want to hear how ridiculous this was? And I took the team and I put them in the one year, the three year, the 10, and I just had this like same team follow with me. That lasted me for like six months. And I was like, rip this thing up.   Paul Etchison (01:31) Yes.   You   Kiera Dent (01:40) It's   gotten better, it's stabilized, but I think that that's real life. So thanks for talking about it.   Paul Etchison (01:44) It's hard,   yeah, I mean, we look at it and I think like the beginning of my practice career, I had very little turnover, but it was, I had to put so much into keeping that. Like it was such a hard thing to keep going. there was a lot of team members that I kept and I was able to make them happy and I was able to have it be a productive relationship and they were good at the practice. But sometimes I look back on it I'm like, man, it was just, that was a lot of energy I put into one person. I should have just moved on.   So that's how I practice now. It's different. There's a little bit more turnover and I think that's normal and that's part of business ownership. So we're okay.   Kiera Dent (02:16) What changed in your mindset for that? I have so many questions for you today. You guys, Paul and I, when we get on the podcast, it really is just like a free for all. And Paul has no clue. I have a full plan of what I'm asking you today, ⁓ but it's going to be a free for all rift of business ownership of teams. How did you change that perspective? Because I think so many people chalk that up to, I'm a failure of a boss if I've got turnover. Like I had a doctor the other day on a coaching call and she's like, Kiera,   Paul Etchison (02:19) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (02:42) What am I going to do for PR? Like I've got people turning over and how do I PR this? So anything is twofold. One, how did you get like mentally change that mindset? Cause I think it's a big mental game.   Paul Etchison (02:54) Yeah, for me, was everything that I've done in my career as far as like leadership growth and stuff, I think has always stemmed from some period of just struggle and burnout to some extent. It was like, I got to the point where I was taking everything that happened at the practice personally, every upset person at upset employees, they're bothered about something. They're they always, I mean, they're telling you how you should be doing things that not realizing that there's very complicated solutions. And sometimes there's not perfect solutions. A lot of times there's   perfect solutions. So I think what changed for me is I started looking at it from a point of my mental sanity saying I can't attribute my feelings on the happiness of all these team members anymore.   And all I need to do is just be very clear on what I want, be very consistent with the way that I treat them and hold them to that standard. But ultimately, I'm putting the ball in their court. It's up to them. And if they want to play ball, cool. If they don't, that's cool too. We can still be friends and you can go to some other office where it's more to your liking. But the biggest change for me was just realizing I can't be everything to everybody. And I did it for a long time and it was really exhausting. And I worked through that and I feel a lot better   it.   I think my team   is better for it.   Kiera Dent (04:08) Yeah, no, I don't disagree. And I'm glad you talked about that. It's been fun. think Paul, you felt like, I don't know, a big brother to me when we met and I came out to your practice and the fun things we've been able to do together and just the differences. ⁓ I think as we've grown up in the industry together, but I, I admired that because I always thought you had this amazing team. And I think to hear your version and then my version at the same time was very similar. I just realized like,   We got a killer team. Like this is an amazing company. And I think when I evolved to you're so lucky to work here, you're so like not in an egotistical way, but I think in a confidence way of like, this is a great place and we're going to attract people. I started realizing like I had confidence to make offers of what we actually wanted to pay versus what I felt like I had to chase to get people to be here. ⁓ we pivoted and I used to like chase all the time and try to be everything for everybody. And then I'm like,   Why am I doing this? Kiera, like you have built a company and a culture and a space that people love. And yes, there are changes and I will continue on forever evolve. I don't think that we're a perfectly set company, but I think that we're a pretty great, awesome place to work. And I think when I became centered, confident in me and what I was providing in the culture without having to be everything, I noticed I actually attracted a way different type of employee. I attracted somebody who wanted that same style. They, it,   It was like no more like games. think in like compensation and all this, it was more just centered. It was like, this is what we do and this is who we are and I want great people. And I also think it was very much attributed to like, got dialed in on core values. And I was like, I'm sticking to these. These are like rock solid. do not deviate from that. And if you don't fit. Fantastic. There is another opportunity, like go find your dream place and we're going to find our dream team member. And I say that in a very like confident, hopefully not egotistical. And I think you, sounds like you did a similar thing, but I.   I will say, I think you go through a space of realizing you're not a failure. It's an evolution. I think of, of leadership. It's almost like going from, I don't want to say immature. It's more like children and how's they grow. Like, I don't think a little baby is a failure for having that knowledge and that mindset. And I think some of us, are toddler baby owners. Like we've never done this before. We don't know. So we're going to have a different mindset. And then you just start to morph and evolve just like   Children grow up and they morph and evolve into these teenagers, into these college students, into like the prime of their life. To me, that also feels like a maturity of leadership as well to being confident with that.   Paul Etchison (06:42) Yeah,   I love that you point that out too, because we do, we hear a lot of complaints from our team members and then we start to, it starts to add up and then we start to really doubt.   Did we really create a great work environment? I mean, we just had an all day meeting maybe about two months ago, maybe six weeks ago,   like that. And one of the questions I asked, we use this thing called Slido. It's just in real time, you put on a PowerPoint slide and everybody can vote on their phone. There's a million like programs that do this. But I asked the whole team anonymously on a scale of one to 10, how fun is it to work at Nelson Ridge Family Dental? And I was terrified to throw that   Kiera Dent (07:03) Thank   Paul Etchison (07:19) there. I had no idea what people were going to say.   Kiera Dent (07:20) I don't blame you.   Paul Etchison (07:22) It was everybody was like eight, nine. There was like three or four sixes. Now I have 30 something team members.   So the   Kiera Dent (07:29) Yeah.   Paul Etchison (07:30) of it was very good, but it was, it was scary.   if you would have asked me what I thought it was going to   Kiera Dent (07:35) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Paul Etchison (07:37) I did not think it was going to be that good because the squeaky wheel gets the grease. This, you know, that's what we hear. That's what we focus on. And it reminds me of this one coaching client I had, cause I coached dentists as well. had a coach coaching client named Isaac and he did very similar to you.   choir practice, he really got deep into the foundational core values of this is what the practice is. And   turned over his entire team and he said, I feel like such a failure. I feel like everybody's leaving. I feel like I'm just turning everybody off. Patients are coming in and asking where everybody is. I just don't think my leadership's good. And I told him, just hang through,   Hang, you'll find your people. And then six months later, he was like, I cannot tell you how much I love my team. And so I think the message of what you and I are saying, Kiera, is that no matter   Kiera Dent (08:12) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Right.   Paul Etchison (08:22) what you want to do with what kind of vision you have for your practice, your team's out there. They are there. They are waiting for someone to take charge and just make it a big deal that that's the type of people we have at this practice.   Kiera Dent (08:26) Mm-hmm.   Paul Etchison (08:33) So if anyone's listening thinking like, have this issue at my office, get those core values out, talk to the team about it. Don't just like leave it on a document, bring it up with ⁓ a meeting and say, guys, this is what I truly want.   And sometimes apologize. I'm   I haven't been holding everyone to the highest regard or the highest standard, but I'm ready to do it and I need your help. So I love that you brought up those two points. Those are amazing things and I think everybody struggles with that.   Kiera Dent (08:55) Yeah.   I think, and I think that that's something that I feel you and I both strive to do is tell people feel like they're not alone. I think so many doctors feel like I'm the only one out there. I'm the only one who can't keep my team there. I'm the only one who has team turnover. And like, this is not the path that we were even on my radar to head, but I think it's obviously the most important path for people to hear. ⁓ I think Paul, it's the no judgment. It's the hang through it. It's, ⁓ having a guide, a mentor who's been there, done that, done that successfully. I mean, you and I can both like,   Gosh, you like grit through that and it's painful. But I also believe that while yes, painful, I feel it's an evolution of soul that you actually internally are craving. I don't believe that we rise to the call until we're ready. Like Kieran 2020, when I'm sitting on Johnny Depp like boat in the ocean, it was on fire. I was not ready for the call and the evolution that came in 2024 for me.   Like I just, wasn't ready for it, but come 2024. And I think it's a, it's a shedding, it's a shifting. It's a, like, I call it like the skin sloughing. Like it's like a snake, like you're leaving it behind. It's, I watched penguins when I was in Antarctica, like small flex there, Paul. Like the Antarctica trip was pretty rad. And we watched it. Right? We went to Antarctica. Penguins are so cute and they smell terrible. Like they're like little ketchup bottles that just squirt poop all day long. And it's disgusting.   Paul Etchison (10:11) I was just going to follow up on that. Whoa.   Kiera Dent (10:25) but they were molting when we were there and they just looked absolutely miserable. Like they sat there and they told us like, please don't touch the penguins. like, these look just, they're like, it's very painful for them. They're having to completely molt off all of these feathers. And I think that that's how I feel a lot of business owners are like, are you going through that molting process? But again, just like those penguins, just like us, I really do believe that when we're ready to be called to that higher level, one, you're not alone, two, you don't have to go through it alone.   Three, it's normal and it's part of growth, but like, there's also, you don't have to grow until you actually want to. Like, it sounds like Isaac was just ready. Like, I'm ready, I'm done. Like, I've hit my limit. I was ready, I was done. I was like, we are having a complete culture shift. Like, we're done and like, it needs to evolve. Sounds like you had it. But I also feel, and I don't know how you feel, Kieran 2020, Kieran 2024, even into 2025, leadership culture company.   keeps evolving. don't feel like I have as many of those like huge molting in 2020, huge molting in 2024, 2025. It's more of a shift in a refinement rather than a full molt. But that's, think how, at least for me, that's how I think I view leadership is.   Paul Etchison (11:37) Yeah, totally agree. It's like we go through these stages of leadership growth. And I remember for me, like leadership all the way up to COVID was like system, system, systems, consistency with team. And my team grew to like 35, 40 people and it got really unmanageable. And then when we came back from COVID from being shut down, I really wanted to try to do something different. And I wanted to keep that. ⁓   I just loved when we were shut down for COVID. I loved how it felt. It felt easy. And I said, I want that, but I don't want that craziness when we open up again. And when I did, I started to feel that same craziness. And I was going to therapy at the time. And like the therapist will tell you, just change your expectations. Don't take everything personally. And what I learned through that is there's no amount of therapy that can   broken leadership   Is that I had systems, I had consistency, but my team   had outgrown those systems. We needed more systems of leadership. So the next stage in my leadership was learning how to lead leaders and truly delegate and truly give them the autonomy to do everything. And when we did that, everything got so much better. there was parts of me that was like, I'm not the right person for this level of organization. not the right person for this size of a dental office. I'm just too anxious. I take   Kiera Dent (12:41) Mm-hmm.   Paul Etchison (12:59) too personally. And ultimately, I think it was just I   Kiera Dent (12:59) you   Paul Etchison (13:02) set up, I didn't set up my organization the proper way. So that was the next level up for me. And I think that's me shedding my skin finally once and for all to learn how to lead leaders. And who knows what's   Kiera Dent (13:14) Paul, I think that you are actually a really good example of letting go of control. How do you do that? Like,   I remember talking to you one day, this is offline, hopefully I'm not oversharing. And you're like, a lot of people say, like, what are you going to do if you retire? And I know you sold your practice to a DSO and you're like, I've never looked back. Like it was great. Um, you're like, I'm actually the person who's okay to just like sleep in and do nothing. Like I really am okay with that. Like, how did you let go of that control with your team? Um, knowing that they weren't going to do it exactly like you, like, I think people have this in theory. They try to do it, but.   Paul Etchison (13:23) No, of course not.   Kiera Dent (13:49) Like that's another molting. That's another really hard gap to go from full control. You're in charge of everything to I'm stressed out. Now I'm going to let team members take over and maybe you're, maybe you're an anomaly, maybe you're a unicorn, but how did you do it?   Paul Etchison (13:59) Yeah.   I think it's like we talked about the growth, but I think where we screw up as practice owners when we do this is we get upset that the team members are not doing exactly the way that we would do it. And there needs to be some wiggle room. There needs to be a lot of forgiveness. But ultimately, there's got to be clarity. And not enough practice owners are having the conversations with their team members. Like I always say, like, I'm coaching dentists all the time, and they're telling me about these issues they're having at their practice. And I'm saying, well, why do you think that is? And the answer is like, well, it might be this.   kind of think it's this and it's like, well, get curious, ask, ask your team. So for me, it was about telling my team what's expected and when   Kiera Dent (14:36) Mm-hmm.   Paul Etchison (14:42) didn't meet expectations, instead of like dancing around it, just going right at the   getting curious, what is going on with this? What is, why is this not happening? And then always like, you know, if you ask the right questions, the next step for any leadership, any leader is to validate their perspective.   no matter what it is and that will go so far. If you take one thing out of this podcast, do that. When your team members share something with you or if you're getting curious, asking them why things are happening, how they're feeling about something, validate their experience and watch how much they open up and they're.   open to behavior change and other options. And then that allows you the opportunity to then ask and invite participation in the solutions. What do you think we should do?   I noticed our cancellations are getting up there. Like, what are we doing about this?   What do you see happening? Getting curious. And they're saying, well, I don't know. Like, I got to ask some more   OK. And then validate their experience. I totally see how maybe you got busy with your other things and you haven't been asking your team. But we've got to ask the team and find out just so many little things.   For me, was getting out of the way, being clear with expectations. But then instead of trying to go around my leads and my leaders, my practice and go around them and deal with the other other teams myself, I let them do it and I let them fail and I help them and I support them.   And I think I know there's a lot of like team members that listen to your podcast, Kiera. I would hope if you're listening to this and you're team member, I would hope you understand how valuable you are to an owner. If you can take things, find solutions and hold your, your team members, your fellow coworkers to a certain standard, like you would be so valuable. Everyone's like, well, how can I get a raise? How can I contribute more value? I would people on my team, my leaders that do this for me, they are so valuable to me and every owner.   is just waiting for somebody to step in and fill that role. I mean, every practice could use   Kiera Dent (16:38) team members, their number one objective is to make their doctor happy.   every day, all day. That's like what my job is. That's what I want to do. That's how I want to serve. That's how I want to help out. ⁓ And I think as owners, I think it can be easy to see all the problems in your team. But I think it's what pair of sunglasses do I want to put on? Do I want to put on the one where I see like, what's wrong is just as available as what's right. Both are always available in every single scenario, every single situation. And so what are we bringing to the table and how are we looking at these different things?   How are we guiding our teams? How are we guiding our leaders? How are we showing up as leaders? How are we like, what is the filter I'm putting on every single day? Like those, those two sunglasses are right there as you walk out the door and which pair are you choosing to put on? Cause you're going to influence impact and create a team. No matter what we see what we want to see. And I believe that we create our own realities. I believe that reality is what we believe it is. And so, ⁓ I think shifting that seeing that, and I think having just a bigger plan, a bigger vision. know when I got very crystal clear of where am I headed?   What is my role? Like, this is gonna sound funny, Paul. I literally Googled like, what does a CEO do? I think doctors come out of school, like you're a doctor, like you do the dentistry, like that's what I'm supposed to do. And I remember one day I was sitting there and I'm like, what is the CEO even supposed to do? Like, I don't even know, like, like really, like where is a CEO, like dictionary, like job description, I realized, got it. It's profit, vision, and culture. Like those are really my main things. Stay out of the weeds and like go for it. And...   Paul Etchison (17:43) you   Kiera Dent (18:04) That's what I'm bred to do. Bring the great ideas, bring those different pieces. That's my job. That's my responsibility. I think dentists also have the second tier of you do dentistry too. So you are a clinician in there and then you have those pieces. But driving culture, driving a culture of accountability of fail, fail forward. like, gosh, I just read this really awesome book and they said, we measure it by outcomes, not activity.   Like just stuff like that. Like you start to become this person who wants to evolve your culture, evolve who your team is, evolve who you are as a person. And I think Paul, even in just knowing you, I think there's been an evolution of who you are as well. ⁓ I think that is just, and hopefully I've evolved too, like fingers crossed there's been an evolution and I'm not as quite, I don't know. I think we keep the best of ourselves. And then I think just evolve into our 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 levels. I guess I just asked the questions of   Paul Etchison (18:42) Absolutely.   Kiera Dent (18:58) I think you've got a fascinating story. You were full, full practice owner. You were in there. You sold out to a DSO. You're still in your practice. You still train. You, you've evolved. If you were sitting back when I met you, what would you tell that Paul of what you know today that would have made that whole experience, whether you're selling, whether you're growing, evolving. I mean, you have a very large practice. It's been real fun to watch you and your practice and everything. What would you have told that Paul?   Paul Etchison (19:27) Yeah, and this comes up a lot with my coaching clients. A lot of people ask me that. And one of the things, if we're looking at our practice, and I'm going back to the beginning, is if we want to sell our practice, if we want to cut back our days, if we want to have the most profitable practice ever, a lot of the times the strategy is identical. We're just trying to go through and create more freedom for ourselves as practice owners by empowering our team, getting them to do a lot of the responsibility.   Kiera Dent (19:48) Mm-hmm.   Paul Etchison (19:57) to be accountable for a lot of the stuff. So I think if I could go back and tell myself again, man, first of all, just stop taking everything so personal. And you come in and you look at it with these different lens of leadership and maturity and all these leadership skills. It's not just at the practice. It shows up in your relationships with your spouse, with your friends, with your kids, like all these things. Like it's all intertwined. But I would have much earlier got the leaders going in my practice because one of the things   Kiera Dent (20:16) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Paul Etchison (20:27) happen through my practice sale is I just like I mentioned I felt like it wasn't I'm not cut out for this I'm sick of being miserable I'm sick of being stressed I'm sick of taking it home and I'm sick of taking it out on people that I love and so when I sold it I said okay I'm on my three-year exit plan I'm getting out of here I'm moving on I don't know what I'm gonna do but I'm gonna move on so I said you know my associate partner Dr. Kathy she owns part of the practice too   I'm gonna pass it to her and maybe she won't be able to do it as well as me. But I need to set this up so she is just, I wanna bless her with this amazing practice that runs on its own. And in the process of setting that up with my leaders, I realized, dang, I don't know if I would have sold. And I'm still happy I sold, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I would have, but that's what I would have tried to do early in my career. I would have went, who are the leaders? ⁓ The whole thing with like the Dan Kennedy of the who, not how. Not how do we do it, but who's gonna do this?   Kiera Dent (21:11) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.   Right.   Paul Etchison (21:25) And I would have leaned into that a lot more because I think I would have been a lot happier. I would have been able to enjoy the journey more. But at the same time, it's like we learn from our mistakes and you got to make the mistakes to learn from. So it's like, so that whole Catch-22, would I change anything? I don't think so because I wouldn't be, if I didn't have the same experience, I wouldn't be the person I am today. But man, I wish I had learned it earlier. That's for sure.   Kiera Dent (21:45) Sure.   It's fair. And I'm actually happy to hear that because I feel like this is like the DSO conundrum and like the cell. And I'm happy to hear you say that because it validates what we try to coach on to. So many doctors are like, I'm just going to sell. And I'm like, well, let's just look at this. If you sell, let's look at what your life will look like on the other side of it. Let's look to see where you are today. And really, let's get to the root of why do you want to sell? And I think, Paula, if we would have asked you that same question.   Why did you wanna sell? My hunch is it was all these problems, all these issues. It was just like, I'm sick of it. Like, let's just pass this on. Let's move on. When a great leader, a great office manager, a CEO, a CFO could have easily come in, taken over for you. You could have had the exact same scenario. You just would have owned it and had more options on the table. Like you said, it's not right, it's not wrong. But I think like for everybody listening, I think today is a good reflection of one, are you going through a molt? Like, are we molting anywhere?   ⁓ and do we, or do we need to molt? Like, is there something we need to shed, let go of identity wise? And then two, I like to do this reflection a lot. And I encourage a lot of people to do it. It sounds like Paul, you do it. Like when we're in these issues in these problems, are we stopping and pausing and asking like, what is the root? Not the symptom, the top line symptom is like, I'm so stressed. And I got this and this and this, but like, do we ever stop and pause to dig to that route and find out   what is really at the root. For me, I often have many journals that are like this, this, this, and I just like list it all out of all these things are frustrating me. But what I'm trying to do is find what is a thread? What is the piece in that that's causing the chaos because then we go fix that. And that's what I love in practices because 99 % of the time what people tell you on the top line, so coaching offices, coaching doctors, coaching teams, like Paul, you know this, I know this. What people tell you at the top is not really what's the problem.   It's the bottom layered, there's something rooted, there's something under there. These are just symptoms on the top. Same thing with patients and case acceptance, right? It's the up at the top, what they're telling you is not really what they're feeling. And all you gotta do is just dig under, find out what that root is and stress and that will go away. And so Paul, thank you for, I just am curious. I've always been curious, like, would you have done something differently? Of course we never can, like, no, we're not going to. But if I could go back and tell that younger self things, like,   Kyri, get rid of your ego, honey. Like trust your team, trust that team to do amazing, trust them to do better than you are, trust them to be better than you, trust them to make better decisions than you do, because I want to create that kind of a team and me believing that is going to ultimately turn my team into that. They have the whole study about teachers with kids and IQs and like if they believe that they have a stronger IQ without doing anything different, that child actually ends up with a higher IQ. Well, why don't we take that same principle and apply it to our teams and see what happens.   Paul Etchison (24:23) Yeah.   It's so true. And I love that you say like the reflection that you did, because I noticed this with my coaching   is that there's a lot of, there's a lot of how, how do we do this? How do we fix this? But I think anyone listening, if you just sat down in a dark room, maybe not dark room, but you're sitting down in a quiet room for 30 minutes and you reflect it, what do I really, you know, I do this with my coaching clients. We call it a practice clarity and frustration exercise. What do we, what really bothers you with the practice? What is it that really just, you know, grind your gears,   it down and it sounds simple but once you write it down you can like visually see it and start to brainstorm for solutions and you start to make this progress that not only affects the way your practice runs but the way that you're the way that you feel and I think ultimately as practice owners we need to realize that the CEO hat you mentioned what does a CEO do we need time for that and we don't have time for that when you're doing four or five days of dentistry that's why when I'm working with clients the first thing I'm gonna do with a practice owner is I'm gonna get them down to three days clinic   Kiera Dent (25:10) Mm-hmm.   Paul Etchison (25:27) And it always works. so inefficient. There's so many things we can do with scheduling and efficiency and production that we can get you down to three days clinical. But now you've got that extra day to put on that CEO hat, to reflect on the things, to write down and figure out what your plan of attack is. I mean, that's what I've got a workshop coming up in February that that's focused on that. How do we get you down to three days? And that's all I want to do in this three day workshop. We're, of course, doing these reflection activities. But I think this is over the course of my career and working   Kiera Dent (25:27) Mm-hmm.   Paul Etchison (25:57) with people, that's what I've seen moves the needle the most. We need time and we need to give the energy where it's due. And it's not, we   be 100 % clinician. It just doesn't work that way.   Kiera Dent (26:09) Yeah, no, Paul, I love that. And think that's such a fun thing. I think dentists need this. Dentists need to have their vision, have their clarity. But I think from today, the wrap is it started out with a photo, unexpectedly, of this is what we're ⁓ kicking the day off of, going from where we were to where we want to be, ⁓ looking at that, reflecting back, seeing. Because   Paul Etchison (26:23) Yeah. How do we get here?   Kiera Dent (26:34) There's a client that you and I both know. They're pretty well known ⁓ that we work with. whenever I work with, gosh, it's so many practices. I think there's like 300 employees and I'm like, gosh, I remember all their names every time. ⁓ But they talk about how sometimes the best learning is just remembering. Remembering where we've been, remembering where we're going to go, remembering things that we've learned looking there. So it's like remembering where I've been so that way I can kickstart and project into where I need to go.   using your team to get there. Your team wants to be your best asset for that. So Paul, those are kind of my wrap thoughts. I know today has just been a real fun day. Always enjoy a good podcast with you. Any last thoughts you have?   Paul Etchison (27:15) No, you know, I would just close it off with   having the listener just believe, just believe in the possibility of what's going, what is possible with your practice. ⁓ There was a point where we talked about reflection. I reflected and I said, I wrote down everything I do at the practice and I wrote down how many of these activities bring me joy and how many of them I hate. And I believe it was something like 80 % of them I hated. So that's no way to live your practice life. You spend a lot of time at work. So why not do the reflection and put the time and energy into   Kiera Dent (27:38) Mm-hmm.   Paul Etchison (27:45) Making your practice a better place to be at it's not just gonna affect you. It's gonna affect your family. It's gonna affect your team ⁓ There's big your ripples that come from this little thing So I would say sit down find a coach find a mentor read some books it is possible believe in yourself and It all starts with the planning so sit down and write down some things journal love it   Kiera Dent (28:09) Journal it up. Well, Paul, I appreciate you so much.   I ⁓ just love what you're doing for our community. I love the things that we're able to accomplish together. ⁓ And yeah, guys, check him out in Dental Practice Heroes podcast. He's got some great stuff over there as well. ⁓ Paul, so good to have you on the podcast. I think you mentioned the event in February. If people want to know more about that, how do they connect with you on that?   Paul Etchison (28:35) Yeah, go to DentalPracticeHeroes.com slash freedom. So that's where the information on the three day workshop, it's going to   awesome. And I'm doing a money back guarantee. If you don't think you liked it, if you don't like what you signed up for, I'll give you all your money back. I believe in it that much. And I know from me coaching for the past six years, I know this is what produces results. So go check that out,   more about the courses, check out the podcast. And I'm always happy to talk to any listeners if they want some help or they just want to find out what we're more about. Please just go to the website, DentalPracticeHeroes.com.   dot com.   Kiera Dent (29:06) Amazing. Paul, thank you so much for being on the podcast. For all of you listening, I hope you do take the time to reflect. I do hope you think about where you want to go and what you want with your life. And just appreciate you guys all being here. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.  

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Setting up an IC-DISC the right way can mean the difference between maximizing tax savings and having issues down the road. In this episode of The IC-DISC Show, I sit down with Brian Schwam, IC-DISC specialist and tax attorney, to walk through the complete IC-DISC setup and compliance process from start to finish. This conversation was inspired by a CPA request for a comprehensive guide covering every step of the IC-DISC journey. Brian breaks down the entire process chronologically, from the initial consultation to determine if a business qualifies, through the critical formation steps that can make or break your IC-DISC. We cover proper capitalization requirements, the infamous 90-day election window, why non-interest bearing bank accounts matter, and the draconian 60-day payment rule that catches many businesses off guard. He explains the difference between simple and transaction-by-transaction calculations, sharing an example where detailed analysis increased a client's commission from $4 million to $17 million on $100 million in export sales. Whether you're a CPA learning about IC-DISC for the first time or a business owner considering this strategy, Brian's systematic approach demonstrates why working with a true specialist matters when navigating these complex regulations.     SHOW HIGHLIGHTS A detailed transaction-by-transaction calculation increased one client's IC-DISC commission from $4 million to $17 million on the same $100 million in export sales. Missing the 90-day election filing window requires a private letter ruling costing $35,000-$40,000 to fix, making it cheaper to just set up a new IC-DISC. The 60-day payment rule requires paying at least 50% of your estimated commission in cash or promissory note within 60 days of year-end to avoid disqualification. Setting up an IC-DISC with no par value stock is a fatal error that will cause the IRS to reject your election, regardless of everything else done correctly. A non-interest bearing bank account is essential because even $1.50 of interest income can disqualify your IC-DISC if no commission is paid that year. Export sales typically need to reach $3-5 million before an IC-DISC makes economic sense, though exceptions exist for businesses with exceptionally high profit margins.   Contact Details LinkedIn - Brian Schwam LINKSShow Notes Be a Guest About IC-DISC Alliance Brian SchwamAbout Brian TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dave: Good morning, Brian. Welcome to the podcast. Brian Hey, good morning David. Good to be here. Dave: So I, I now refer to you as the Bob Hope of the podcast because I believe that Bob Hope holds the record for the most appearances on the Johnny Carson Show. So that's why you're like the Bob Hope of the podcast. You have more appearances than anyone else with today's appearance. Brian That's good company to be in if you're of a certain, if you're of a certain age. Dave: Yeah. And I'm not even sure you and I are quite old enough to even be of that certain age. Brian I probably never saw him on Johnny Carson. Dave: Yeah, me too. So this is an episode that was requested by a CPA of one of our clients who was retiring and he had a new. Partner taken over and he said, Hey Dave, can you send over a link to the episode that just goes through all the details of the IC disc from start to finish? And I'm like, well, we don't have that episode, but it's a great idea. So that's what's behind this. So let's start at the very beginning. Somebody calls you up and says, Hey Brian, I need an IC disc, or I want an IC disc. What's the very first step? Brian Very first step for me is to say why. Dave: Okay, Brian tell me about your business. Dave: Okay. Brian You know, do you have qualified export receipts? Do you have qualified export property? That those are very complex areas. And some people might think they do when they don't, and others might think they don't when they do. Dave: Okay. Brian And more likely than not, they heard about IC disc from. Somebody they met at a, you know, business leader meeting or something and somebody said, oh, hey, I have an IC disc. You should have one. Dave: Okay. Brian And not everybody can utilize one, but there's many out there that can utilize 'em that do not. Dave: Okay. And do you charge anything for that consultation? Brian No, because to me it's just a fact finding. Dave: Okay. So step one, figure out if their fact pattern warrants having an IC disc. Brian Right? Right. Well, it's, it's actually, that's one step. If you deter, if we determine that yes, an IC disc makes sense because they do have qualified export property, they do have qualified export receipts, then we have to talk about volumes. Because, you know, if you have 500,000 of export sales, most like more likely than not. Disc isn't gonna make sense. Dave: Economic sense when Brian you factor Right. Economic, the Dave: costs Brian not right. There's not enough benefit to offset the cost at that, at that level, most likely. Of course. It [depends on what, what it is they're selling. Dave: Sure. Do you have a rule of thumb you typically use? Is it like three or 5 million where it typically makes sense or every case Brian For most, for most businesses, that's sort of the range that where it starts to make sense, but there are always exceptions to that. Dave: Sure. Brian So like I had a client that had, you know, 600,000 of export sales, but their bottom line profit was 80%. Dave: Okay. Brian So in that instance, hey, it made sense, but for most companies that have 600,000 of export sales, it, it probably doesn't make sense. Dave: Okay. So let's say they have 5 million of exports, good margins, looks like it makes economic sense. What's the next step then? Brian Well then we talk about what is the tax structure of that exporting company? Is it a flow through entity? Is it a C Corp? And how is it owned? Sometimes [00:04:00] it's owned by a foreign company that makes things way more complicated. Okay. It's owned by a combination of different shareholders, some of which are individuals, some of which are corporations. So that can be complicated. And sometimes it's just a, it's just a pass through entity that's owned by, you know, let's say it's an S corporation that's owned by a family owned. Dave: Sure. Brian You know, so you, you can have a lot of different fact patterns and that will dictate a lot of things with, with respect. Dave: Okay. Brian To how the disc is organized. Dave: Might that also be the time? You inquire as to whether multiple discs might make sense for their structure, or do you typically just focus on kind of getting the initial disc in place and then exploring that over time? Brian Probably the latter. Dave: Yeah. Brian Initially I, you know, the goal is, you know, do you have enough activity? Do you have the right kind of activity? What kind of benefit is it that you think you can, we can get for you? And then, okay, if the answer to all those are in the positive, then it's like, okay, how should this disc be owned based on what we're trying to achieve and where should it be set up? Because that also can have a lot of negative surprises if you set it up in the wrong place. Dave: Yeah. So let's say and I think there's some rules of thumb like if if the. Exporting company is a C corp, you typically don't want the C Corp to own the disc, is that correct? Brian That is, that is correct. And that's because a C corporation pays tax on a dividend. It receives from the IC dis, so effectively there's no benefit. Dave: Okay. So with a C corp, typically it would be the individuals, individual or [individuals that Brian are Oh, the, the shareholders typically, Dave: yeah. Brian You know, possibly a management group could be involved as well, but typically we're talking about the shareholders of the C corporation. Dave: Yeah. And the shareholders of the disc do not necessarily have to mirror the shareholders of the C corp. Right. Brian That is sort of up in the air. I, I prefer that to be the case, but it doesn't have to be the case. Dave: Yeah, like in a simple example, census C Corp owned by one person and when they set it up, they wanna add a couple key employees to it. Brian Yeah. That, that, that's probably fine. You know, there's some old revenue rulings out there from the early 1980s that have a bad fact pattern, which the IRS held that the structure created gift tax issues, but that was like a mom and a dad and a son and a daughter, and mom and dad set up a disc and then gave the stock to the son and the daughter. And, and so that, that's, I see that's a bad fact pattern. What you described is a completely different fact pattern. There's no donative intent in that fact Dave: pattern. Yeah. Okay. In Brian fact, that I have a client that started out where the disc and the C Corp was. It did have mirror ownership, but over time, that has changed dramatically. But still, there's no donor of intent because we have all these unrelated families that own shares in the company in this quote company. And when there have been redemption opportunities over the years, they have the choice redeemed, the disc shares redeemed. The, the C corp shares redeemed them both. So some of like kept their dis shares, but gotten rid of the C Corp shares and vice versa. But really without the donative intent, plus some court case you know, precedent, I, I'm not [00:08:00] so concerned about that issue. Dave: Okay. Now let's switch gears and let's say it's a flow through an S-Corp partnership et cetera. Do you typically want the individuals to own it in that situation? Say that the company has three shareholders, would you just make them the three owners of the disc? More often than not, no. Okay. And why is that? Brian Because it, you get the same benefit by making the disc a subsidiary of the S corporation without some of the extra complexity associated with having the disc be owned by the shareholders. Now that, that's, that's preferred, but there are also situations where that doesn't make sense. Dave: Okay. Brian So let's say the, the S corporation is in California and the shareholder lives in Texas, or Florida. Or Nevada. Dave: Okay. Brian So they might want that dividend income flowing directly to them so that there's [00:09:00] no state Oh. So that there's no state income tax on the dividend. Dave: Sure, sure. Brian Okay. Okay. Yeah. So again, it's just another fact you need to uncover in the process of trying to figure all this out. Dave: Okay, so you've met with the client, you've figured out a disc makes sense, you've dug further you figured out the ownership structure of the disc. That makes sense. So then I guess you have to figure out where to incorporate, huh? Brian Yeah. And that again, there are good states and bad states. Dave: Okay. Brian Some states will tax an IC dis as a regular C corporation, you wanna avoid those states. Some states don't have an income tax at all, and those are good states to deal with. Dave: Okay. Brian And the three, you know, I'd say there's three states that are predominantly viewed as positive, and that would be Delaware, Texas, and Nevada. Okay. They're all fairly similar. For filing. And, and none of them have a corporate income tax on the dis so that's, that's all good in terms of not adding additional costs to the, the structure. Dave: Okay. So I'm in Texas and thus you, it seems like most of my clients end up incorporating in Texas. Do you just so here we are January 8th. We're recording this of 2026. So do you just do you just get around to doing it anytime before the end of the year and then you could use the disc the whole year? Is that how it works? Brian It's not how it works. It's generally a prospective opportunity. So you wanna get that entity formed as quickly as possible. Dave: Okay. Yeah. I've had people, I've heard [00:11:00] people say that if you don't do it on January 1st, you just have to wait till the next year. Brian No. That, well, that's certainly not true. And from any date forward that you set it up, you can certainly get benefits or shipments. Okay. That they, but one other item that I forgot to mention earlier, they also like to ask if the, if the related supplier entity, which is the exporter, if they're an accrual based company or a cash basis, Dave: ah, Brian that's an, that's an incredibly important issue Dave: Sure. Brian Dealt with. That's why. Dave: Okay. Brian Because the disc is an accrual base taxpayer by default. Dave: Yeah. Okay, we'll get into that when we get further around the, Brian okay. Dave: I think about when I was a kid, there was a, there was a Saturday morning TV series I think called schoolhouse Rock. And one of the episodes was how, how a bill becomes a Law [00:12:00] And there's the whole steps, the Brian episode, everybody remembers. Dave: Yep. Yep. So everybody our age at least. Okay, so you've got the disc set up and say you do it in Texas and let's say they make the decision January 8th, takes a few days to, you know, just kind of get stuff, you know, information from the client set up. And let's say you get it set up January 15th, so then they're good to go, huh? They can just start using that disc and away we go. Anything else? Ha. That has to be done Or is it, is it that some Brian on the, on the surface, yes, that's true. Dave: Okay. Brian But beneath the surface, there's other things that have to take place. Dave: Okay. What's the next thing that has to happen after you've formed the disc? Brian Well, you have a, there's a 90 day window to file a disc collection with the IRS. That's probably the most critical thing that has to happen. You have to file an actual paper form with the IRS to elect disc status for the company, because the company, when you set it up, it's just a corporation. Without that election, it's not a disc. Dave: And that election, is this the famous form 48, 76 dash a, is that said election, Brian famous or infamous in some cases, Dave: yes. Yeah. Okay. So you have to, so you just well, you just go to the IRS website. Download the form, send it in, bing, bam. Boom. You're done. You're good to go. Brian Not exactly. Dave: Okay. That's the Brian first Dave: step. Brian Skip. That's the first step. But the I mean, first of all, when you're setting up the disc, you have to make sure you incorporate it properly. Dave: Okay. Brian I kind of glossed over that. Dave: And what are some of the elements of proper incorporation? Brian Well, for example, when you go to a, the Texas website or any other secretary of State website to organize the company, because it can be done all online, [00:14:00] like the default is always, you know, no par value stock, right. Brian If you just select the default, you are going to have a problem because Okay. Dis rules require, you know, par or stated value of $2,500 on the, issued an issued an outstanding stock of, of the disk. So I had a client that came to me years ago. They had set up a company in, well, they used Wyoming, which is also possible to use, and it's not a bad jurisdiction. And they had, he had his quote unquote friend that who was an attorney, set it up for him. And there were some issues with the DISC collection and it went back and forth and then ultimately took a look at the articles of incorporation and it had, you know, $1 power stock, 1000 shares. Dave: Ah, that's a problem. Brian That's, [00:15:00] yeah. So no matter what happened with the disc election and the back and forth with the IRS, the disc election was ultimately never approved because the entity didn't meet the requirement. Having enough outstanding capital stock. So you have to have one and it can only have one class of shares. So there are, you know, there are some hoops you have to jump through in terms of not doing things incorrectly or doing things correctly. So you have to make sure there's one class of stock, $2,500 par value. There can't be foreign sales corporation in the same patrol group, which years ago was a big deal, but now it's not really a big deal because those have been gone for many years and almost nobody has one left. Not, not really an issue there. And what, you know, those are the formation matters that, that mattered, that are important to make sure you, you meet when you form the entity. Okay? If it's formed wrong, right from the get go, you have a problem. If [00:16:00] it's formed correctly, then the next step is yes, file a disc election. Dave: And, but before you file the disc election, there's a step we're missing, right? Doesn't the DISC election require. To put the corresponding EIN for the distance. Oh yes. I mean, I just assumed we, yeah, you obviously you have to apply for an ID number for the new entity that does not come automatically with the incorporation. Brian 'cause that's done with the state as opposed with the IRS yes. Dave: Yeah. And that's become more challenging. It used to be pretty easy to get an EIN you could apply under a corporate name or Brian yeah. But there, there's a, you know, there is an online portal with the IRS to get an EIN for a domestic company. So it's not, it's not Dave: terrible. Yeah. Brian It's not terrible. Dave: Yeah. So you have the EIN that you need for the 48 76 ae. Brian Right. Dave: You have you have 90 days, Brian you have the proper capitalization. Dave: Yeah. Brian You figured out who's gonna own the disc because the, the disc collection is. Signed, you know, it's not just made by the disc entity. It's made by the disc entity, then consented to by the shareholder. So you have to make sure that all that takes place. I can't tell you the number of times where somebody filled out part one, the disc signed it, and then the shareholder forgot the consent to it. And if you don't do the 48 76 dash eight correctly, you get it filed timely. It's an extremely expensive fix to try and get that Dave: rectified. Brian Generally, you have to try to get a private letter ruling, which will grant an extension of time to file the late disc collection. Dave: Okay. Brian And that's that's an expensive process. It's a 25 to $30,000 exercise to [00:18:00] file the private letter, really. Plus you have to pay a user fee to the IRS of 10,000, 11,000. Dave: Wow. Yeah. It seems that seems inconvenient at, at best. Brian And for most companies, they're better off just setting up a second dose Dave: Sure. Brian As opposed Dave: to process, Brian because how much volume there is. Dave: Yeah. Yeah. And I understand the IRS itself refers to these as a, a paper entity. So I guess since it's a paper entity, that's it. No need to fuss around with a bank account or actually have to capitalize it with actual money is there. Brian It's, it's recommended, but you're right, it's not required. There's no requirement in the disk rules to set up a bank account. Dave: Okay. Brian So there it could simply have. A receivable receiv for the capital stock. And that can be, its working capital doesn't have to have a bank account, but that's sort of a misnomer that people think it must have a bank account. Okay. In the original regulations, that was a requirement, but when the regulations are finalized, the requirement was removed. Dave: Okay. But practically speaking, it you probably wanna have a bank account. Brian Yes. Practically speaking, it makes all the sense in the world to have a bank account, a non-interest bearing bank account. Dave: And why is the non-interest bearing important? Brian Well, it, it has to do with one of the annual requirements of a disc. That 95% of its receipts have to be qualified export assets. I'm sorry, receipts. And so let's say in a year the company decides. You can't always decide not to use the DIS even though you've got it in place. So let's say the company says, well we're not gonna use the, this year we had a loss. In our business there's no using. Dave: Okay. Brian We say, okay, and then the DIS bank account earned a dollar 50 of interest income. Dave: Okay, Brian well 100% of the receipts are now not qualified receipts. Okay. Income and no other revenue. If there was a non-interest bearing bank account, it would just have no receipts and then it would be fine. But the earning, the dollar 50 of interest would disqualify that. Dave: Okay. So non-interest bearing account and then I guess the dollar amount in the bank account, what you start with, $2,500 initially. Brian Yeah, pretty much keep it there forever. Dave: But, but it doesn't matter if you end up, oh, if you're a little lazy and you forget to distribute all the money and you end up with 50 grand at the end of the year, that, that's not a problem, is it? Brian It is. Dave: It is. Everything's a problem Brian with you, Brian, because everything, 'cause the, these rules are draconian and everything can become a problem. So a commission dis anyway, a comm, [00:21:00] you know, a paper entity commission dis doesn't need $50,000 of working capital. And the IRS would hold that, that that's not a qualified export out. Like having too much working capital in DIS will cause it to fail. The other test, which is the 95 qualified export asset test 2,500, you know, an amount of cash equal to the capital stock is fine. Dave: Sure. Brian Amounts above that start to, you know, raise questions as to whether. That's reasonable working capital or not? Given that the entity's a paper entity, it doesn't really have any expenses. Maybe some bank fees. That would be about it. In most cases, it really doesn't need cash sitting. Dave: Yeah. Yeah. So maybe 3000, 3,500 to account for some bank fees or, Brian yeah, at most, yeah, we start getting about 5,000. It really starts to [00:22:00] look questionable. Dave: Okay. Oh, I just realized, I think in the initial assessment there was a step we forgot and that's, do they want to make it a buy sell disc or a commission disc? What percentage of your clients are commission discs? Mine a hundred percent. That's Brian 99%. Dave: Yeah. So we're just stepping ahead assuming that it would be a commission disc, Brian right. I mean, the only time you would really have a buy sell disc. 'cause if you have a business where. They're buying inventory from unrelated parties. And all the inventory is manufactured in the US and all of it is export. Dave: Yeah. Brian Okay. That, that, that I do have, like I said, two clients that have adopted that structure. One was commissioned disc with an S-corp and they converted, they merged the S-corp into the disc and just became an operating disc. You know, and that's a little different than a buy sell disc. I mean, an operating disc. People think of buy, sell dis an operating disc for the same thing. They're really not. I mean, 'cause you could have a, the equivalent of a commission disc, but have it be by sell where it could buy product from its related exporter and then export it. Dave: Okay. Brian It's possible that, that, that tho that fact pattern, I don't have any clients in. Dave: Okay. Brian It's possible. Dave: Okay. So we've got the election filed and then at some point the IRS will send the taxpayer letter approving the election, right? Brian Correct. That is, that was true. Dave: And then so we've got the, the B and usually it makes more sense to have the disc bank account at the same bank as the operating company, right? Brian It typically does, Dave: yes. Yeah. And we'll get into that when we get further into the operation of the disc. Okay. So it's all set up. And elections filed, election approved. So now certainly we're done with incorporation and government governance matters, right? Brian No. No, Dave: not yet. Brian Not yet. Not yet. Okay. We still have to make sure there's a a call, a related supplier agreement or disc commission supplier agreement in place between the, the exporting entity or entities and the disc itself. This document is, it's not, again, it's not required in the regulations, but it is recommended. It gives the related supplier a lot of flexibility in how it uses the disc and if it uses the disc and it gives it unilateral powers to decide not to use the disc. It also lays out the, you know, sort of boil legal boilerplate language about an inter intercompany agreement between the two business. Dave: So you could just go to chat GPT and have them spool up a one page sales agent agreement. Is that right? Brian Maybe. I don't know. I haven't tried that 'cause I don't wanna teach chat GPT how to, how to do that, but because every time you ask it a question, you teach it, right? Dave: Sure. Brian General, no, it's a pretty specific agreement and it has very specific provisions in it. Provisions and so somebody that knows what they're doing really needs to draft them. Dave: Okay. Okay. So this is kind of pointing away from just having your general corporate attorney who's never heard of a disc, do all that quote paperwork. Brian Yeah. I never recommend. I always recommend that a specialist do it, namely myself take care of it. Dave: Okay. Yeah. 'cause you are, in addition to having an accounting background, you're also a tax attorney, correct? Brian Correct. Dave: Correct. Okay. Brian Yeah. And you know, some of the documents that need to be created, yeah. That can be done by a general corporate attorney like bylaws and those as well and or other organizational documents that aren't disc specific can only be done by any attorney. But but if, but really it doesn't make sense to split that work up amongst different attorneys. Dave: Okay. Sure. Brian It all sort of be done by the same party to make sure that it's, that everything gets taken here. Dave: Okay. Brian And timely because there's a 90 day window to get this, in my opinion, to get this all done. Dave: Yeah, to co to coincide with the election filing. Brian Right. Because typically I don't provide any of the documents, including the election, to the, to the client until all these things are done. Dave: Yeah. Oh, I see. Sure, sure. Because then there's, Brian you know, they have to sign the disc election and there's all these other documents they need to sign and put in a minute book. And so rather than piecemeal it, we just give it to them all at once. Dave: Okay. So they've got their binder with all their signed documents or a signed copy of the 48 76 A that was filed a copy of the approval from the IRS. So now finally, are we ready to get started using our disc? Is there. Brian Collection the I. Yeah. As you've probably seen in the news, things are changing at the postal service as far as postmarks and what they can be relied on as when something was considered filed. So they're not promising the postmark things that they, you drop them in the mail anymore. Dave: Oh, really? Okay. I hadn't heard that. Brian Yeah. So it's recommended to go, like, walk it to a counter and have it hands stamped with [00:28:00] a postmark. Yeah. But more importantly, and unfortunately not everybody listens to this, send the form certified mail return receipt requested. 'cause many times document is sent to Kansas City and they lose track. Oh, we never got your dis election. We can't process your dis return, whatever. And then there's proof that it was sent and then they have to, you know, find it basically. Dave: Okay. Or Brian at least accept it, maybe even if they never find. Dave: Yeah. Brian But there's one other thing about the disc and that we didn't talk about and, and I'm reminded of it because something you asked me in passing last week, which is something about the year end of the disc, the year end of the disc must coincide with its principal shareholder. So if I have a C corp that's a fiscal year, but the owners of the disc aren't gonna be [00:29:00] individuals, that disc will be a calendar year disc. Dave: Sure. Brian Not be a fiscal year company. And you know, if. It's owned by, let's say an S corp that has a fiscal year, then the disc will have a fiscal year. It, it must have the same year as its principalship. Dave: Okay. Yeah. Good. Thanks for the reminder of that. Brian And sometimes the disc collection gets filled out incorrectly. Somebody assumes one thing and, and then when a return is filed, the IRS, they're like, they, they dunno what to do. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Now finally, do we have a little bouncing baby disc to be delivered to its proud parents? I think so. Dave: Okay. Okay. Okay. Brian And that's usually, it's usually about three to five months after it was formed. Dave: Okay. Brian Is when it started eating solids. Dave: Okay. Alright, so now we've got the disc set up and 9:45 AM I'm, I'm sorry, I keep touching my watch and it says the time, apparently it's time to just take off my watch. Okay. So now, so let's just say that they have not yet set up the bank account. They've done everything else, and now it's time to set up the bank account so they, you know, call their local banker. They get it set up at the same bank, so it can be on the same online banking platform. And then they fund it. And does it matter where the funding comes, comes from for that bank account? Can they just like say the company. I mean, can just anybody fund it? Say there's three shareholders, can just one shareholder write a check for $2,500 to fund it? Or how does that all look? Brian Well, I mean, there, there will be a subscription agreement that shows how much each shareholder owes for their shares, and each shareholder should pay for them. Okay. Can't just be one. Dave: Okay. So we have the bank account set up, we're ready to go. And so now we're at the end of the year, or approaching the end of the year. Let's say we're in November of 2026. Anything we need to do before the end of the year Brian for an accrual based taxpayer? No. Okay. There's nothing paid to do, but before the end of the year. Dave: And what about for a cash basis? Brian For a cash basis, taxpayer, if we want a deduction in 2026. We need to pay the DIS in 2026, so Dave: we Brian would need to gather information in order to estimate a DIS commission for 2026 before the end of the year. Dave: Okay. So cash basis, that's what we need to do by the end of the year. Accrual basis. Basis, no. Do I need to do [00:32:00] anything by the end of the year? Brian You don't need to. You have an option to, if you'd like to, if you wanna have an idea of what the disc commission might be, or you actually wanna pay it before the end of the year, but there's no requirement. Dave: Yeah. And if you don't, and if you don't pay it by the end of the year, you get a deferral benefit Brian possibly. Dave: Yeah so say, say you did a hundred million of exports and your commission was $20 million. You just get to defer that whole thing till the next year, right? Brian No, Dave: no. Brian, all you say is No. Every good idea have you just say No. Brian It could defer 10% of it to the next year because only the income related to 10 million of export sales can be deferred, and it'd be a little less than 10% because the disc wasn't there the whole year. So we'd have to prorate that 10 million for the number of days the disc existed. And then some sliver can be deferred, but the rest of it is gonna be taxed to the shareholders as a deemed dividend Dave: in the current year. In the Brian current. Dave: Okay. Brian Then not taxed when physically distributed in the following. Dave: Okay, so we have an accrual tax payer. We get into the to 2027, and let's say they're extending their corporate return and they're planning to file that in August of 27. So we're done. We don't have anything else to do before August. Right? Brian That's not true either. Dave: Brian, Brian you're Dave: killing me. Brian Yeah, well, it, I mean, it depends. If nothing was done before the end of the year, then something needs to be done within the first 60 days after the accrual base taxpayer. Or, you know, let's say the cash base taxpayer says, I don't [00:34:00] care if I get my deduction next year, so I'm not gonna pay anything this year. Something needs to be paid at this within 60 days of the end of the year. Dave: So is this one of those things like the sales agent agreement, that that's just recommended? Brian No, this is required. Dave: Required. Okay. Brian Yeah. This is required. This is, this is one of the hot buttons the IRS will try to use to disqualify your disc. Dave: Okay. Brian So the disc accrues a receivable at the end of the year, even though it doesn't know the amount at the end of the year for all, for, for disc purposes and books an an accrual for the income at the end of the year. That accrual or the receivable is only a qualified export asset if, if the payment rules around that receivable or satisfy. Dave: Okay. Okay. Brian One Dave: rule Rules. Rules. There's always rules. Brian Yeah. It's very draconian. You have a 60 day rule and a 90 day rule. 60 day rule says you must pay a reasonable estimate of the disc commission to the disc within 60 days of the end of the year in cash or. It could be cash, it could be a note. Dave: And reasonable is just any old amount. You just put your finger in the air and ah, I think a hundred dollars is reasonable. Brian Again, that's not the case. There is a safe harbor for what is reasonable, and that safe harbor is f at least 50% of the final commission amount that you Dave: determine. But how do you know that in February Brian you have, Dave: if you're not preparing the corporate, Brian you have to try to compute an estimate before the end of FE Dave: and you have to nail it exactly at 50%. So if you think the commission's gonna be $1,217,412, you need to pay exactly 50% of that, Brian at least. [00:36:00] Dave: Oh, at least. So you could pay more. At Brian least you could pay more. And we always recommend maybe paying 75 to 80%. Dave: Okay. Brian Because if you pay whatever you pay. That amount is gonna be your limit. So if you thought it was gonna be a million and you paid 500,000 and it turns out to be 1,000,500, too bad. So sad, you only paid 500,000, you're capped at a million. Dave: Okay? I mean, that's the safe harbor. I suppose there might be circumstances where, where one could argue that they maybe the first year of the disc, and you know, they, they, Brian you can argue it, you can try to argue it, but there's no guarantee that the IS will accept any of the arguments. And the private letter rulings that exist from the 1970s would imply that they, they're really not going to accept just about any rationale for being reasonable other than that 50% bright [00:37:00] line safe harbor. Dave: Okay so you make the payment, Brian make that payment, and. Dave: Can you just book a journal entry? Do you, do you actually have to really move the money? It sounds like a hassle. Brian I mean, in, in general you have to, you have to either create a note or move cash. Dave: Okay. Brian Okay. Dave: But that might be a lot of money though. Like what if, what if it's like $2 million and million? The company only has a million dollars in the bank. Brian They could use the same capital multiple times. Dave: Oh, okay. Brian And roundtrip the money as many times as they need to, or like I said, use the, use the promissory note. Dave: Okay. Brian Short term promissory note to satisfy that requirement because it does say cash or property. Dave: Okay. So we get through February, we've made our, our 60 day payment. We've, we've, you know, sh sh we've, we, instead of doing 50%, we did about 80% of what we thought it was gonna be to give us some cushion, and now we can go take a vacation till the till the corporate returns ready. Brian Yeah. I, I, I think so. Dave: Okay. Brian I think so. Dave: Okay. So it's time to now. So it's time. Now, if they extend that corporate return, I guess they're gonna have to extend the disc return as well. Brian Well, the disc return is due September 15th as a matter of course. Dave: Oh, Brian are handy. There are no extensions. So really as far as the disc and its compliance goes, once you make that 60 day payment, there's really not much you can or should do or are able to do until the related entities tax return. Prepared. [00:39:00] So a lot of times they'll say, well, that's not gonna be done till September 15th, and we have to have a discussion about how that doesn't work because the disc return has to be done by September 15th, but in order to do the disc return, you need to basically a completed within it supplier returns. So then we have to work backwards from September 15th to figure out like when's the latest they can have that, that other return done in order Dave: to Brian get the disc return done. Now that's relatively easy in the past through context because all those pass through returns are also due September 15th on extension. Dave: Sure. Brian Whereas a C corporation, it's not so easy because the extended due date for a C corporation, if it's a calendar year is October 15th. So it may be that you have to file a disc return with a made up number on time and then amend it after. Okay. After September 15th. I've done that a number of times. Dave: Okay. So that makes sense. Brian Because as is good as CPAs are, they're deadline driven. So if a return is due October 15th, they're unlikely to have it done by the end of August. Dave: Yeah. Okay. So it's time to file the disc return. I assume the CPA firm probably has that disc return and their standard tax software with all the other forms. So you just have the CPA go ahead and prepare the disc return. I've looked at it, it's a short return. It's like 10 pages long. So you just go ahead and have the CPA prepare the disc return, then bing, bam, boom, you're done. Brian Could do that. Dave: Okay. Is there a drawback to doing that? Brian Yeah, it would probably be wrong. Dave: Okay. Why do you say that? Now, remember [Brian, we have a lot of CPAs who we have very good relationships with that we share clients, you know, saying that they're probably gonna do it wrong. I mean, heck, I don't really wanna annoy all my great CPAs we work with Brian Well, okay, but it, well, it's just a fact. It'll probably okay Dave: be Brian wrong because they might see one or two or three a year. They, they think they know what all the different terms on the district return mean, but they're not as familiar with that as they are with a S Corp return or a partnership return, or 1120. So they do what they think is right, and it may be right, it may not be right. So again, I, in my opinion, you want a specialist preparing the district return. Dave: Okay. Brian Okay. Because we know exactly how it's supposed to be filled out. And then if, if the calculation is done on a transaction by transaction [00:42:00] basis, there's this schedule P that gets attached to the return. Well, if you don't do a T by T, there's one Schedule P. If you do a T by T, there could be thousands of them. So I don't think CPAs and their software are equipped to complete thousands of schedule Ps and attach Dave: Yeah. Brian To the district. Dave: No, good point. And you're, you're getting your your enthusiasm to get to T by t had me, you got a little ahead of me. 'cause I was gonna ask, so client says, Hey, we have a desk. Our accounting department's busy. What's just the bare minimum of information we need to send you? What's the bare minimum? Brian Bare minimum would be qualified export sales. Dave: They just need to send you a number. Brian Yes. Dave: Then you take that number and how hard can it be? Right. Just take the, Brian it's not, it's not necessarily that hard at that point. Dave: Yeah. But say the profit on those sales [00:43:00] is the average profit of the company and taxable profit. And you compute the disc commission, you go through the Schedule P and compute the disc commission and pick the higher of the two numbers that you, that you compute. So you would just be like the final draft, corporate return and that total export number, you know, dollar amount for the year. And, and that's really all you need to, to do. That's Brian the bare bone. That's the bare bones, yeah. Dave: Okay. And that's what some people would call the standard calculation or a simple calculation, Brian I'd call it simple. Yeah. Dave: Okay. And that's also known as the 4% 50% calculation in some circles. Right. How does that work? Brian Well, it's also known as the safe harbor calculation in certain circles as well. Back to that, Dave: back to that safe harbor again. Brian Yeah. But that's actually not a safe harbor, so that's why I bring that up. Dave: Okay, well Brian that's the safe harbor calculation. I'm like, no, it's not. It's just the [00:44:00] calculation. There's nothing safe harbor about Dave: it. Okay. Brian Okay. It's just the rules that are found in the code and regs for computing and disc commission, and they're the two predominant methods. 4% of sales and the 50% of net profit, Dave: you just cherry pick whichever one works better. Brian Yeah, but the 4% method has limitations. So Dave: more limitations probably. Why? Why can't this just be simple? You said it was the simple calculation and now you're already telling me there's inherent complexity. Brian Even if it's simple, it's not totally simple. Dave: Okay. Okay, Brian so the, and I've seen this done wrong. Millions, well, not millions, hundreds of times, and I can say it is hundreds of times. Client computes the 4% method just by choosing 4% of sales. They don't look at what their net income is on the, on the [00:45:00] activity. They just say, oh, I'm allowed to use 4% of sales. The limit there is you cannot create a loss. There's something called the no loss rules. You can't create a loss with a disc commission if one doesn't already exist. So if the profit on, say, on the sales are 2% of sales, you can't take 4% of sales. You're limited to 2% of sales. And if, for example, you have a loss of the company, you're limited to zero. But I've seen situations where that's completely ignored. Dave: Okay? Brian Properly computed this commission of 4% of sales, but it should have been something less or possibly zero. Dave: Okay? So more complexity, but the good news, that's the extent of the complexity. One, schedule P, 4%, 50%, you know, make sure you, you don't create a loss. Now we're, we're all done. Pop. You [00:46:00] know what, what? Dusted and dusted and delivered we're, we're good to go. They've maximized their dis commission, right? And we're all done. They have a nice 10 page return to send to the IRS. Which by the way, can they file that electronically, that return? Brian Fortunately, there are no provisions for electronic filing of the disc return. It must be, Dave: what is this, the 1970s or something? Brian Pretty much Dave: Okay Brian with, with regard to the disc? Yeah. And, and some other forms. Yeah. But the, the, the benefit of that, here, I'll give you a benefit. The benefit of the fact that you must file a paper return is they can have an electronic signature on it. Okay. It doesn't have to have a wet signature. Dave: Okay? Okay. Brian So you could theoretically, for example, send your client the return using DocuSign, have them sign it. You print it, you file it for, Dave: okay. Okay. But, but now we're finally done. It's signed, it's done. And they say, boy, thank you very much, Brian. You've done, your team did a great job, and boy, I really appreciate, you know, we had 10 million of exports. We have all kinds of variability in our profit margins. And, but thank you very much. You, you created the amazing $400,000 or you calculated the 400,000 disc commission. Thank you very much. I couldn't imagine you went above and beyond. I couldn't imagine you could have done anything more. And then what do you say? Do you graciously say, oh, you're welcome. It was our pleasure. Brian I would graciously say, you know, we, we've just computed your minimum disc commission. Dave: Okay, Brian not your maximum. Because you have Dave: vast, lemme guess. Lemme guess. There's more complexity coming. Brian More complexity, which relies on more data being. Pulled from the client's [00:48:00] records to, to allow for a calculation of the DISC commission at a more detailed level, ideally at a line item by invoice level, Dave: line item. That sounds like a lot of work. Brian It can be. Can be a Dave: lot. What if the client says, our accounting department's busy? Sounds like we're gonna have to spend weeks gathering all this data for you. Eh, it's just, we're too busy, it's not worth it. What do you say then? Brian I gu I almost can guarantee you it will be worth it. Okay. Because looking at the detail is likely to cause at Disconnect commission to be anywhere from 50 to three, 400% higher than what it otherwise would've been. Now, unfortunately, in that first year, since you've already filed with a certain number, you're limited to two times what you paid in that 60 day window. But going forward. You know, there's no limit. Dave: Okay. Brian Whatever we compute can be your disc commission. So different industries have different amount of variability and t and transaction by transaction calculations have different impacts depending upon the industry, the profitability of the business, how many products they have, who they sell to. But it can vary. But I'll give you an example of one that we worked on recently where company had a hundred million of export sales. They took 4% of sales, and they've been taking 4% of sales year after year, after year, after year, after year, Dave: okay. Brian They brought us in like three weeks before the district return. Dave: Okay. Brian And we went through the calculations and we actually calculated 17 million Dave: as opposed to 4 million. Brian As opposed to four. Dave: [00:50:00] Yikes. That's a big difference. Brian It's a huge difference. And fortunately they were, you know, well, I mean they were very pleased with the result. And so now on a going forward basis, we're not doing 4% of sales. Dave: Okay? But you still have this. But if they were able to get a $17 million commission, then that means their corporate taxable income must have been at least 17 million. 'cause didn't I hear you say the disc commission cannot cause a loss. Brian It cannot cause a loss at the level at which you're computing the commission. So there's no, you're killing me, Brian. Just more complexity. Yeah. Well, it's very complex area. There's, there's no overall no loss rule. Like if you, you can, as long as you're meeting the rules as they're written, you can cause your entity to go into a loss position. Now, this particular instance, it did not do that, but [00:51:00] you could do that. Dave: Okay. And then if you get into a loss position, there are other non disc complexities that come into play that impact whether you want to maximize the loss in that entity or you want to target a particular loss in that entity. And that's not something that we get involved with, but we're certainly sensitive to it. Sure. Sure. And so you're saying for this client, even though I've heard some people say you've got the simple calc and then the hard calc. And so you'd wonder why would anyone do the hard calc? Well, it's because their commission went from 4 million to 17 million, which saved them hundreds of thousands of dollars. You created hundreds or millions of dollars with additional tax savings. Brian Right, right. Dave: Okay. Brian And by the way, after the first conversation we had with them, they said, oh [00:52:00] yeah, this is not something we can do. The accounting department said, this is not something we can do. Then the owner said, this is something you're gonna, Dave: it's funny how that, how that works. Okay. And then I'm guessing this extra work. You, you're probably gonna have to create another schedule P or two. So now the disc return, it's gonna be 10 pages. It's what? 20 pages? Is that kind of a typical page count? Brian No, it could be Dave: no. Brian Thousands of pages. Dave: Thousands. I mean, Brian, a ream of paper is 500. So thousands would be reams of paper. Brian Yes. I've had some returns that have like 15 binders of paper. Dave: Yikes. Brian Yeah. Just goes in a big box and I'm sure the IRS types, all those schedule Ps into their, Dave: I'm sure they do. Okay. So the return gets filed, so the return's ready. You take that box, you just slap a you print off a postal label online, drop it off at the post office. And you're done, right? You just give it to carrier, Brian understand, Dave: carrier, carrier your house or whatever. Brian Well, you can send it via FedEx. You can send it via UPS. And actually, in some ways, I think that might be better these days than the postal service. Dave: And why do you have to do that? Can you just slap, I mean, if you have your 15 binders, couldn't you just put a hundred stamps, you know, on the, the box and ship it in because they'll get it, right? I mean, it's not like they're gonna lose it or anything. Brian They might, they could very well lose it. And you definitely want proof of delivery and you want proof of mailing. So again, it's a certified mail if you're using the postal service or if you're using a private carrier like FedEx, you know, you get all that documentation about when it was shipped and when it was delivered.[00:54:00] Dave: Okay, well now at least we're finally done. Right? You ship it off. The CPA pulls the numbers from the disc return, puts it on the corporate and shareholder returns. Now we're done. It's gone to the IRS. We never have to think about it again. Right. Brian I'm not sure if that's a trick question or not, but in some ways that could be true, Dave: right? Yeah. But it, but I guess you could get audited, right? Brian Could get audited by an agent who has no idea what they're doing, which is typically the case. Dave: So that's why you want your CPA defending you in that case. 'cause then it's like the blind leading the blind. Brian No, I think it's better if someone with site is involved. So again, the specialist who did the disc work should represent the taxpayer or be involved with the representation of taxpayer in the case of the audit. Dave: Okay. Brian And the should be involved. Because really what's under, what's really in question is the [00:55:00] deduction on that entity's tax return. The dis itself doesn't pay tax. So they rarely audit a dis quote. Dave: Okay? So if I break it down, you to do it really right? You need a specialist to guide you on the initial structure of the disc. You need another specialist to set up the, the disc. You need another specialist to do all the paperwork, make sure the document's correct another specialist to prepare the return, and then another specialist to defend you. So is that about right? So do you need like five different people to make sure everything's done right? Brian? Isn't there some way that you could just have one person that could just do it all for you and be done with it? Brian Well, of course. Dave: Okay. Finally, finally, I get a simple answer, Brian right? So if you, if you engage a disc specialist, that [specialist should be able to do all that. Dave: Okay? Brian Okay. Now, not every disc specialist is created equally. Dave: Sure. Brian You know, I brought up during our conversation that there are some non disc things that can also add complexity to the situation. Not every disc specialist will be sensitive to those things. Not every disc specialist will understand those things. So the benefits that like our organization brings is that. Least myself in particular, I didn't always just do IC disc work. I, I, I have a well-rounded knowledge of all of the, of the tax world. And so I am sensitive to non disc things. You know, for example, you know, another example, oh, a company has a lot of export sales. You would think it's a no brainer. They should have a dis, they should use the dis. They should, they, they should want to convert that ordinary income to qualified dividend [00:57:00] income. Well, what if the S-corp is owned by an ebit? What if there are passive shareholders? All of those things impact whether the disc commission actually helps or hurts their tax situation. And I would get, I would venture a guess that, you know, if you went out and Googled, you know, I see this specialist, you would find a handful. At most that understand all that stuff and how all it all interplays together as opposed to the multitude of those that won't understand any of it. Dave: Okay. Brian So I think a, a disc specialist that is sensitive to all the other tax rules is, is definitely something that is valuable. Dave: And you probably want someone with some experience who's done maybe, you know, what a dozen disc returns in their career, maybe 50 if they're really good. Like how many, how many have we done organization wide? Probably Brian probably 10,000. Dave: 10,000? Well, that's a lot more than 50. Brian Yes. Over the years it's probably close to that number. And we've probably claimed billions of dollars of just deductions and saved clients, hundreds of millions of dollars of tax. And, and I'm proud to say that every dollar we've ever claimed we've. Okay. Dave: So Brian I've never had an adjustment from the IRS. Dave: Well, that sounds like a, a good a good record. So bottom line, Brian that's, that's the best you can come up with a good record. I'd say it's Dave: well, I didn't wanna say a perfect record. I didn't want to jinxy. Brian No, but it's, it's, it's, it's pretty outstanding record. Dave: Yeah. It's a, it's an impressive record Brian because there are also just providers out there that say, well, you know, Dave: it's the Wild West. Brian The wild west, the IRS doesn't really understand it, so let's be as aggressive as possible. And, and that's not the way we approach it. Dave: Yeah. Wow. Well, this has been this has been a lot. So really it's that simple. So the person who wants to just do all this themselves, we've laid out the whole playbook for them. Brian Yeah. The only simple thing they have to do is call us. Dave: There you go. That is it. Yeah. And, and oh, the other thing, not only are you the Bob, hope you now have moved from number two to number one for the most experienced icy disc guy. I know now that Neil Block is retired. Brian Well, that's, I don't know if that's a plus or not. Whether I'll take it just means I've been doing it a long time myself. So Dave: yeah, Neil was, I think my second, first or second guess. And and I was just happy. 'cause his billing rate back then was like $1,500 an hour. I was just glad I didn't get a bill a month later for him being on the podcast. But he, [01:00:00] he did it for exactly 50 years at one firm, baker and McKinsey in Chicago. He had one office, one phone number, like the whole 50 years. Brian Yeah. That's, Dave: that is something you don't see much anymore. Brian Definitely not, no. It's, but it's very, that's. That's very cool. And Neil is a very, you know, is a very intelligent savvy guy. Dave: Yeah, that is for sure. Well, Brian, anything else that we didn't cover that you can think of? Brian I can't think of anything. I think we covered a, a great deal here. Dave: Okay. Brian Can't think. Dave: Well, I, I'll let Brian we omitted. Dave: Well, great. Well, hey, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. And I'll let you get back to your, your exploration of your yard there. Brian Yeah. I feel like, it's funny I shrunk the kids. Dave: I know. Well, hey, well, well again, thanks again, Brian. We all appreciate your time. Brian You're welcome. Have a good day. Dave: You too.

Agile in Construction: Stop Teaching and Start Doing—The Secret to Agile Adoption in Construction With Felipe Engineer-Manriquez Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "I forgot a couple key things. Number one, they don't have the enthusiasm and love for these new ways of working like I do because they didn't understand the problem that they were in." - Felipe Engineer-Manriquez   Felipe shares a powerful failure story from his early days adopting Lean and Agile in construction. After discovering Jeff Sutherland's "Red Book" and experiencing incredible results using Scrum with his 4-year-old son on a weekend project, he was eager to bring these methods to his construction team. The problem? He immediately went into teaching mode. His boss Nate and the rest of the team wanted nothing to do with Scrum—they Googled it, saw it was "a software thing," and shut down completely. This is what Felipe now calls the "Not Invented Here Syndrome"—people resist ideas that don't originate from their domain. The breakthrough came when Felipe stopped teaching and started doing. He calls it the "ninja Scrum approach"—embodying the processes and tools without labeling them, making work visible, and delivering results.  When he managed $25 million worth of scopes using these methods silently, one project manager named Tom stopped him and said, "We've never come to a project where people held their promises." Within a year, even his resistant boss Nate acknowledged the transformation in a post-mortem review. The lesson: don't teach until people pull for the teaching.   In this episode, we refer to NoEstimates and Scrum: The Art of Doing Twice the Work in Half the Time by Jeff Sutherland.   Self-reflection Question: When you introduce new practices to a team, do you wait until they pull for the teaching, or do you default to explaining before they've seen the value?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

If you've ever Googled handwritten post in the UK and then had a small financial wobble at the prices, you're not alone. Daniella Paolozzi is proud to be a female leader of her handwritten marketing business. Choosing to market using handwritten post does not have to be a luxury beyond your marketing budget. Tune into this podcast to find out why it might be just the best decision you take in 2026!Summary of PodcastIntroductions and Handwritten Direct MailGraham and Kevin introduce their guest Daniella Paolozzi, who describes herself as a "marketing nerd, website whisperer, and pen written direct mail enthusiast." They discuss Daniella's background in marketing and her transition to focusing on handwritten direct mail, which has proven to be a highly effective strategy for her clients across various industries.The Power of Handwritten Mail Daniella explains how handwritten direct mail stands out in an increasingly digital world, evoking a more personal and emotional response from recipients. She shares examples of impressive results her clients have achieved, such as a builder receiving £68,000 in new business from a 5,000-piece handwritten mail campaign. The group discusses how handwritten mail can be more cost-effective than email marketing due to its higher response rates.Personalisation and CustomisationDaniella emphasises the importance of personalisation and customisation in her handwritten direct mail approach. She explains how her team uses technology to scale the process while maintaining a personal touch, avoiding a robotic or generic appearance. The group explores how this level of personalisation and attention to detail can help build trust and engagement with recipients.Daniella's Personal JourneyDaniella shares her personal story, including her battle with cancer at a young age during the COVID-19 pandemic. She discusses how this experience has shaped her perspective and drive to make a positive impact through her business and charitable work, including using sustainable materials and giving back to the community.Podcast Insights and OpportunitiesThe group discusses the challenges of podcast growth and engagement in the current landscape, as well as the potential benefits of transcribing podcast episodes to improve search engine optimization and discoverability. They explore ideas for incorporating the transcript into the podcast distribution and leveraging it for additional content opportunities.The Next 100 Days Podcast Co-HostsGraham ArrowsmithGraham founded Finely Fettled in 2014 to provide data from The UK High Net Worth Database to marketers targeting affluent and high-net-worth customers. He's the founder of MicroYES, a Partner for MeclabsAI, creating lead generation AI Agents & Workflows and introducing the MeclabsAI Platform. Graham also provides an Answer Engine Optimisation solution to get your website in shape to be found by LLMs.Kevin ApplebyKevin specialises in finance transformation and implementing business change. He's the COO of GrowCFO, which provides both community and CPD-accredited training designed to grow the next generation of finance leaders. You can find Kevin on

Today Scott Molchan breaks down why landscapers keep chasing leads that never call — and how fixing your foundation (Google Business Profile, website, reviews) makes every marketing dollar actually work.   You want more jobs, but most marketing fails because contractors skip the basics. In this episode Scott asks the simple question every landscaping business owner should answer: if someone Googled you right now, would you want them to see what shows up? He explains how referrals, door-knocking, and social posts still send people to Google — and why reviews and a legit website are what turn curiosity into a real phone call.   You'll get a clear, no-fluff stack to follow: Google Business Profile → simple website → reviews → social proof → ads. Scott shares why ads don't work without that foundation, what to fix first, and quick wins that build trust so prospects actually call. Perfect for landscaping and lawn-care business owners who want better clients, fewer wasted ad dollars, and more reliable leads.   Take five minutes today and Google your business like a customer. See what shows up, then email Scott at scott@milliondollarlandscaper.com with what you find — he answers these.   Subscribe so you don't miss the next episode on getting your marketing to pull real calls, not just clicks.   Follow Million Dollar Landscaper: Website | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube

Do You Have A Hormone Imbalance? Take my FREE Hormone Symptom Profile Assessment: https://bit.ly/takemyhormonequiz One of the biggest mistakes women make in perimenopause is assuming that everything we're experiencing is “normal.” But just because these symptoms are common doesn't mean they're something you have to live with. Today, we're continuing my new series, The Perimenopause Reset,” where we cut through all the misinformation and cookie-cutter advice and focus on what actually works in perimenopause. In this episode, I'm peeling back the curtain on what's normal in perimenopause…and what's not…and six signs that your shifting hormones may actually be a hormone imbalance. I'll also address some of your most commonly Googled questions, including: ✅ How do I know if I'm in perimenopause or if something is wrong with my hormones? ✅ What symptoms are normal in perimenopause—and what's not? ✅ How do I know if my symptoms are stress or hormones? ✅ What does a hormone imbalance feel like in midlife women? ✅ Why do my labs look normal but I still feel awful? ✅ Why can't I sleep through the night anymore after 40? ✅ Is it normal to feel exhausted all the time in perimenopause? ✅ Why am I gaining weight in my 40s even though I haven't changed how I eat? ✅ How can I tell which hormone is causing my symptoms? If you woke up recently feeling like you're living in someone else's body, this episode is for you.   — NEXT STEPS: Do You Have A Hormone Imbalance? Take my FREE Hormone Symptom Profile Assessment: https://bit.ly/takemyhormonequiz Become a Podcast Insider + Subscribe to The Hot Flash–Hormone hacks, recipes, and lifestyle tips I don't share anywhere else!: https://areyoutheremidlife.com/ Tired of Tossing and Turning? Grab my FREE “Better Sleep After 40” Supplement Cheat Sheet: https://monicalanetopete.kit.com/sleepbetter — *Disclaimer: Information provided in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. The information is not intended or implied to supplement or replace professional medical treatment, advice, and/or diagnosis. I share the strategies that have worked for me, and you are advised to do your own research and speak to your medical provider for care.

In the age of turning to technology over talking with others I was curious what the 10 most Googled questions about childfree living are. So today, I'm giving my most honest responses to the questions people are curious about but don't always feel comfortable asking out loud.What are the benefits of a child-free lifestyle?Does being child-free affect relationships, marriage, and partner compatibility?How do child-free people find community, support, or social groups?This episode breaks down common fears, myths, and assumptions surrounding a childfree life with a few throwbacks to former episodes full of resources of support. If you're new to the podcast or the childfree community this is a great episode to start with! Support the showEmail: claimingzeropodcast@gmail.comIG/FB: @claimingzero

You just walked a patient through the perfect treatment plan. The clinical exam went smoothly. Your explanation was clear. The parent nodded along. Then you open the financial folder and watch their face change. “This feels like a lot of money.” Your stomach drops. Your mind races through rebuttals. You feel the conversation slipping away. Here’s what most treatment coordinators miss: that moment is not the problem. It’s the opportunity. Every objection you hear is a patient asking you to guide them through uncertainty. When you reframe resistance as a request for leadership, everything about your consults changes. Why Patient Objections Happen In Orthodontic Consultations Orthodontic treatment is not an impulse buy. It costs thousands of dollars. It takes months or years. It requires trust in someone who just met your family twenty minutes ago. If patients could confidently make five to seven thousand dollar healthcare decisions on their own, treatment coordinators would not exist. There would be no consult rooms. No case presentations. Patients would click “buy now” and show up for their first appointment. The fact that objections exist proves people need guidance. They want the outcome. They crave confidence. They’re asking you to help them feel safe moving forward. What sounds like resistance is actually uncertainty reaching for direction. When a parent says they need to think about it, they’re not saying no. They’re saying they don’t yet have enough emotional clarity to say yes. When someone mentions cost, they’re not attacking your fees. They’re asking you to bridge the gap between price and value in a way that makes sense for their family. Patient objections in dental practices surface because people care deeply about making the right choice. They care about their child’s smile. They care about their budget. They care about whether this decision will pay off years from now. That care creates anxiety, and anxiety creates questions that sound like obstacles. Your job is not to overcome those obstacles. Your job is to guide people through them. Free Growth Session The Mindset Shift That Transforms Case Acceptance Most orthodontic teams are taught to treat objections as barriers to crush. That language alone creates a fight you don’t need to have. Patients are not pushing back to say no. They’re reaching out for validation so they can say yes. They want to know their concern is normal. That other families have felt the same way. That their fear makes sense. That someone who does this every day understands the weight of the decision sitting in front of them. When a patient says, “This feels like a lot of money,” they’re not attacking your treatment plan pricing. They’re asking if this investment delivers results worth the sacrifice. When they say, “I need to talk to my spouse,” they’re not stalling. They’re honoring the fact that financial decisions this size require partnership. Shift from defending to guiding and watch the entire tone flip. The consult becomes collaborative instead of transactional. Patients lean in instead of pulling away. The energy in the room changes because you stopped treating their concern as a problem and started treating it as a signal. That signal tells you exactly what the patient needs to hear next. Listen for it. How Orthodontic Teams Accidentally Create Resistance Here’s the truth most teams miss: resistance rarely starts when the objection leaves their mouth. It begins earlier in the patient consultation process. Patients do not suddenly decide to object at the financial discussion. Objections are the result of misaligned pacing, unmet emotional needs, or broken rapport that occurred several steps before they said a word. Maybe you rushed through the clinical explanation because you had another patient waiting. Maybe you skipped the step where you ask what’s most important to them. Maybe your body language shifted when you opened the financial folder. These micro-moments stack up, and by the time you present fees, the patient is already guarded. This is why scripts for handling objections fail. Even the best language collapses if the person delivering it feels uncomfortable talking about money or doubts the value of the treatment. Patients sense this instantly. Confidence, or the lack of it, is communicated nonverbally long before you discuss numbers. Your tone, your pace, your posture, all of it telegraphs whether you believe in what you’re offering. When you rush to explain, justify, or counter objections, patients feel unheard. When you lean on memorized responses, they feel managed. Both reactions raise resistance instead of lowering it. People do not buy when they feel guarded. They buy when they feel safe. Safety comes from connection, not convincing. Free Growth Session Why Leadership Beats Language Every Time in Patient Consultations The most effective orthodontic consultations are not driven by clever phrasing. They’re driven by calm, empathetic leadership. Patients trust certainty that’s quiet, not loud. They trust confidence that doesn’t need to prove itself. They trust professionals who believe fully in both the provider and the outcome. That belief shows up in how you hold silence, how you answer questions without defensiveness, and how you stay present when the conversation gets uncomfortable. Empathy must come before explanation. Patients decide emotionally first. Logic only works after anxiety drops. When you lead with education instead of empathy, you overwhelm people who are already nervous. You pile information on top of fear, and fear wins every time. When you lead with empathy, education becomes welcome instead of threatening. Picture a parent sitting across from you. Their thirteen year old needs braces. They’ve already Googled horror stories about pain and cost. They’re worried about whether their insurance covers enough. They’re concerned their kid will hate them for making them wear metal. They’re calculating whether they can afford this and still take the family vacation they promised. Now imagine you open with, “Let me walk you through our payment options.” You just skipped the part where you acknowledge everything swirling in their head. You treated them like a transaction instead of a person. Instead, try this: “I know this is a big decision. A lot of families feel nervous about the cost and the time commitment. That’s completely normal. Let’s talk through what matters most to you, and we’ll figure out the best path forward together.” See the difference? You just lowered their guard. You made space for their anxiety. You signaled that you’re here to guide, not pressure. Now they can actually hear what you say next. This is why objections handled with patience and validation often dissolve on their own. The patient wasn’t looking for a debate. They were looking for reassurance that someone gets it. What High Performing Orthodontic Teams Do Differently High performing teams do not eliminate patient objections. They normalize them. They understand that objections are signals, not problems. Signals that something needs to be clarified, slowed down, or emotionally supported. They don’t view objections as roadblocks. They view them as guideposts showing where the patient needs more help. These teams stay externally focused instead of retreating into their own heads. They watch body language. They notice breathing, posture, tone, and energy. They catch the micro-expressions that reveal doubt before the patient even says a word. They stay in sync with the patient instead of racing toward the close. They treat objections as moments of alignment rather than conflict. Instead of trying to win an argument, they guide the patient back to clarity. They ask open ended questions like, “What part of this feels uncertain for you?” or “Help me understand what’s holding you back.” These questions invite honesty instead of triggering defense. High performers also debrief after tough consults. They don’t just shrug off a “no” and move to the next patient. They ask themselves: Where did I lose rapport? What signal did I miss? How can I improve the orthodontic patient experience next time? This approach doesn’t feel like selling. It feels like leadership. And leadership is what patients are looking for when they walk into your practice. Free Growth Session Five Moves to Improve Case Acceptance In Your Next Consult If objections feel heavy or frequent in your orthodontic practice, start here. Reframe objections internally before responding. They’re not attacks. They’re requests. When a patient voices a concern, pause for one full breath before you answer. That pause lets you shift from defense mode to guide mode. It also signals to the patient that you’re really listening. Acknowledge emotion before explaining anything. Validation lowers resistance faster than information. Say things like, “I hear you. That makes sense.” or “A lot of families feel that way at first.” You’re not agreeing with the objection. You’re acknowledging that it’s real for them. Pay attention to where objections are being created earlier in the process. Many are preventable through better expectation setting and rapport building. If patients consistently object to cost, ask yourself: Did I build enough value before I presented fees? Did I connect treatment outcomes to what they told me they care about? Focus on connection first, solutions second. Patients cannot hear logic when they feel unseen. Spend more time in the discovery phase. Ask what brought them in today. Ask what they’ve heard about braces. Ask what concerns them most. The more you understand their world, the easier it becomes to speak directly to their needs. Build conviction in the outcome, not just the script. Confidence is felt before it’s heard. If you don’t fully believe that your practice delivers life changing results, patients won’t believe it either. Spend time remembering why you do this work. Look at your before and after photos. Read testimonials. Reconnect with the transformation you create every day. That conviction will show up in your voice, your pace, and your presence. Objections Are Where Trust Gets Won In Orthodontic Consultations In orthodontics, trust is not built by avoiding objections. It’s built by how you show up when they appear. When teams stop bracing for objections and start welcoming them, consults become calmer, clearer, and more effective. Patients feel supported instead of sold. Decisions feel aligned instead of pressured. Case acceptance rates climb because people finally feel safe saying yes. Objections are not the moment the sale is lost. They’re often the moment trust is won. Every concern a patient voices is a chance to prove you’re different. A chance to show that you’re not here to push. You’re here to partner. The practices that win are not the ones with the smoothest talkers. They’re the ones with the steadiest leaders. The ones who stay calm when patients get nervous. The ones who listen more than they speak. The ones who make people feel seen, heard, and supported through one of the biggest decisions they’ll make for their family. Your patients aren’t resisting you. They’re asking you to lead. So lead. Start today by changing how you think about the next objection you hear. See it as an invitation. Respond with empathy. Guide with confidence. Watch what happens when you stop defending and start connecting. That’s how you transform case acceptance. That’s how you build a practice people trust. That’s how you create results that stick. Free Growth Session The post Why Orthodontic Objections Disappear When You Do This! appeared first on HIP Creative.

Happy New Year! You may have noticed that in 2025 we had moved toward YouTube as our primary podcasting platform. As we'll explain in the next State of Latent Space post, we'll be doubling down on Substack again and improving the experience for the over 100,000 of you who look out for our emails and website updates!We first mentioned Artificial Analysis in 2024, when it was still a side project in a Sydney basement. They then were one of the few Nat Friedman and Daniel Gross' AIGrant companies to raise a full seed round from them and have now become the independent gold standard for AI benchmarking—trusted by developers, enterprises, and every major lab to navigate the exploding landscape of models, providers, and capabilities.We have chatted with both Clementine Fourrier of HuggingFace's OpenLLM Leaderboard and (the freshly valued at $1.7B) Anastasios Angelopoulos of LMArena on their approaches to LLM evals and trendspotting, but Artificial Analysis have staked out an enduring and important place in the toolkit of the modern AI Engineer by doing the best job of independently running the most comprehensive set of evals across the widest range of open and closed models, and charting their progress for broad industry analyst use.George Cameron and Micah-Hill Smith have spent two years building Artificial Analysis into the platform that answers the questions no one else will: Which model is actually best for your use case? What are the real speed-cost trade-offs? And how open is “open” really?We discuss:* The origin story: built as a side project in 2023 while Micah was building a legal AI assistant, launched publicly in January 2024, and went viral after Swyx's retweet* Why they run evals themselves: labs prompt models differently, cherry-pick chain-of-thought examples (Google Gemini 1.0 Ultra used 32-shot prompts to beat GPT-4 on MMLU), and self-report inflated numbers* The mystery shopper policy: they register accounts not on their own domain and run intelligence + performance benchmarks incognito to prevent labs from serving different models on private endpoints* How they make money: enterprise benchmarking insights subscription (standardized reports on model deployment, serverless vs. managed vs. leasing chips) and private custom benchmarking for AI companies (no one pays to be on the public leaderboard)* The Intelligence Index (V3): synthesizes 10 eval datasets (MMLU, GPQA, agentic benchmarks, long-context reasoning) into a single score, with 95% confidence intervals via repeated runs* Omissions Index (hallucination rate): scores models from -100 to +100 (penalizing incorrect answers, rewarding ”I don't know”), and Claude models lead with the lowest hallucination rates despite not always being the smartest* GDP Val AA: their version of OpenAI's GDP-bench (44 white-collar tasks with spreadsheets, PDFs, PowerPoints), run through their Stirrup agent harness (up to 100 turns, code execution, web search, file system), graded by Gemini 3 Pro as an LLM judge (tested extensively, no self-preference bias)* The Openness Index: scores models 0-18 on transparency of pre-training data, post-training data, methodology, training code, and licensing (AI2 OLMo 2 leads, followed by Nous Hermes and NVIDIA Nemotron)* The smiling curve of AI costs: GPT-4-level intelligence is 100-1000x cheaper than at launch (thanks to smaller models like Amazon Nova), but frontier reasoning models in agentic workflows cost more than ever (sparsity, long context, multi-turn agents)* Why sparsity might go way lower than 5%: GPT-4.5 is ~5% active, Gemini models might be ~3%, and Omissions Index accuracy correlates with total parameters (not active), suggesting massive sparse models are the future* Token efficiency vs. turn efficiency: GPT-5 costs more per token but solves Tau-bench in fewer turns (cheaper overall), and models are getting better at using more tokens only when needed (5.1 Codex has tighter token distributions)* V4 of the Intelligence Index coming soon: adding GDP Val AA, Critical Point, hallucination rate, and dropping some saturated benchmarks (human-eval-style coding is now trivial for small models)Links to Artificial Analysis* Website: https://artificialanalysis.ai* George Cameron on X: https://x.com/georgecameron* Micah-Hill Smith on X: https://x.com/micahhsmithFull Episode on YouTubeTimestamps* 00:00 Introduction: Full Circle Moment and Artificial Analysis Origins* 01:19 Business Model: Independence and Revenue Streams* 04:33 Origin Story: From Legal AI to Benchmarking Need* 16:22 AI Grant and Moving to San Francisco* 19:21 Intelligence Index Evolution: From V1 to V3* 11:47 Benchmarking Challenges: Variance, Contamination, and Methodology* 13:52 Mystery Shopper Policy and Maintaining Independence* 28:01 New Benchmarks: Omissions Index for Hallucination Detection* 33:36 Critical Point: Hard Physics Problems and Research-Level Reasoning* 23:01 GDP Val AA: Agentic Benchmark for Real Work Tasks* 50:19 Stirrup Agent Harness: Open Source Agentic Framework* 52:43 Openness Index: Measuring Model Transparency Beyond Licenses* 58:25 The Smiling Curve: Cost Falling While Spend Rising* 1:02:32 Hardware Efficiency: Blackwell Gains and Sparsity Limits* 1:06:23 Reasoning Models and Token Efficiency: The Spectrum Emerges* 1:11:00 Multimodal Benchmarking: Image, Video, and Speech Arenas* 1:15:05 Looking Ahead: Intelligence Index V4 and Future Directions* 1:16:50 Closing: The Insatiable Demand for IntelligenceTranscriptMicah [00:00:06]: This is kind of a full circle moment for us in a way, because the first time artificial analysis got mentioned on a podcast was you and Alessio on Latent Space. Amazing.swyx [00:00:17]: Which was January 2024. I don't even remember doing that, but yeah, it was very influential to me. Yeah, I'm looking at AI News for Jan 17, or Jan 16, 2024. I said, this gem of a models and host comparison site was just launched. And then I put in a few screenshots, and I said, it's an independent third party. It clearly outlines the quality versus throughput trade-off, and it breaks out by model and hosting provider. I did give you s**t for missing fireworks, and how do you have a model benchmarking thing without fireworks? But you had together, you had perplexity, and I think we just started chatting there. Welcome, George and Micah, to Latent Space. I've been following your progress. Congrats on... It's been an amazing year. You guys have really come together to be the presumptive new gardener of AI, right? Which is something that...George [00:01:09]: Yeah, but you can't pay us for better results.swyx [00:01:12]: Yes, exactly.George [00:01:13]: Very important.Micah [00:01:14]: Start off with a spicy take.swyx [00:01:18]: Okay, how do I pay you?Micah [00:01:20]: Let's get right into that.swyx [00:01:21]: How do you make money?Micah [00:01:24]: Well, very happy to talk about that. So it's been a big journey the last couple of years. Artificial analysis is going to be two years old in January 2026. Which is pretty soon now. We first run the website for free, obviously, and give away a ton of data to help developers and companies navigate AI and make decisions about models, providers, technologies across the AI stack for building stuff. We're very committed to doing that and tend to keep doing that. We have, along the way, built a business that is working out pretty sustainably. We've got just over 20 people now and two main customer groups. So we want to be... We want to be who enterprise look to for data and insights on AI, so we want to help them with their decisions about models and technologies for building stuff. And then on the other side, we do private benchmarking for companies throughout the AI stack who build AI stuff. So no one pays to be on the website. We've been very clear about that from the very start because there's no use doing what we do unless it's independent AI benchmarking. Yeah. But turns out a bunch of our stuff can be pretty useful to companies building AI stuff.swyx [00:02:38]: And is it like, I am a Fortune 500, I need advisors on objective analysis, and I call you guys and you pull up a custom report for me, you come into my office and give me a workshop? What kind of engagement is that?George [00:02:53]: So we have a benchmarking and insight subscription, which looks like standardized reports that cover key topics or key challenges enterprises face when looking to understand AI and choose between all the technologies. And so, for instance, one of the report is a model deployment report, how to think about choosing between serverless inference, managed deployment solutions, or leasing chips. And running inference yourself is an example kind of decision that big enterprises face, and it's hard to reason through, like this AI stuff is really new to everybody. And so we try and help with our reports and insight subscription. Companies navigate that. We also do custom private benchmarking. And so that's very different from the public benchmarking that we publicize, and there's no commercial model around that. For private benchmarking, we'll at times create benchmarks, run benchmarks to specs that enterprises want. And we'll also do that sometimes for AI companies who have built things, and we help them understand what they've built with private benchmarking. Yeah. So that's a piece mainly that we've developed through trying to support everybody publicly with our public benchmarks. Yeah.swyx [00:04:09]: Let's talk about TechStack behind that. But okay, I'm going to rewind all the way to when you guys started this project. You were all the way in Sydney? Yeah. Well, Sydney, Australia for me.Micah [00:04:19]: George was an SF, but he's Australian, but he moved here already. Yeah.swyx [00:04:22]: And I remember I had the Zoom call with you. What was the impetus for starting artificial analysis in the first place? You know, you started with public benchmarks. And so let's start there. We'll go to the private benchmark. Yeah.George [00:04:33]: Why don't we even go back a little bit to like why we, you know, thought that it was needed? Yeah.Micah [00:04:40]: The story kind of begins like in 2022, 2023, like both George and I have been into AI stuff for quite a while. In 2023 specifically, I was trying to build a legal AI research assistant. So it actually worked pretty well for its era, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. So I was finding that the more you go into building something using LLMs, the more each bit of what you're doing ends up being a benchmarking problem. So had like this multistage algorithm thing, trying to figure out what the minimum viable model for each bit was, trying to optimize every bit of it as you build that out, right? Like you're trying to think about accuracy, a bunch of other metrics and performance and cost. And mostly just no one was doing anything to independently evaluate all the models. And certainly not to look at the trade-offs for speed and cost. So we basically set out just to build a thing that developers could look at to see the trade-offs between all of those things measured independently across all the models and providers. Honestly, it was probably meant to be a side project when we first started doing it.swyx [00:05:49]: Like we didn't like get together and say like, Hey, like we're going to stop working on all this stuff. I'm like, this is going to be our main thing. When I first called you, I think you hadn't decided on starting a company yet.Micah [00:05:58]: That's actually true. I don't even think we'd pause like, like George had an acquittance job. I didn't quit working on my legal AI thing. Like it was genuinely a side project.George [00:06:05]: We built it because we needed it as people building in the space and thought, Oh, other people might find it useful too. So we'll buy domain and link it to the Vercel deployment that we had and tweet about it. And, but very quickly it started getting attention. Thank you, Swyx for, I think doing an initial retweet and spotlighting it there. This project that we released. And then very quickly though, it was useful to others, but very quickly it became more useful as the number of models released accelerated. We had Mixtrel 8x7B and it was a key. That's a fun one. Yeah. Like a open source model that really changed the landscape and opened up people's eyes to other serverless inference providers and thinking about speed, thinking about cost. And so that was a key. And so it became more useful quite quickly. Yeah.swyx [00:07:02]: What I love talking to people like you who sit across the ecosystem is, well, I have theories about what people want, but you have data and that's obviously more relevant. But I want to stay on the origin story a little bit more. When you started out, I would say, I think the status quo at the time was every paper would come out and they would report their numbers versus competitor numbers. And that's basically it. And I remember I did the legwork. I think everyone has some knowledge. I think there's some version of Excel sheet or a Google sheet where you just like copy and paste the numbers from every paper and just post it up there. And then sometimes they don't line up because they're independently run. And so your numbers are going to look better than... Your reproductions of other people's numbers are going to look worse because you don't hold their models correctly or whatever the excuse is. I think then Stanford Helm, Percy Liang's project would also have some of these numbers. And I don't know if there's any other source that you can cite. The way that if I were to start artificial analysis at the same time you guys started, I would have used the Luther AI's eval framework harness. Yup.Micah [00:08:06]: Yup. That was some cool stuff. At the end of the day, running these evals, it's like if it's a simple Q&A eval, all you're doing is asking a list of questions and checking if the answers are right, which shouldn't be that crazy. But it turns out there are an enormous number of things that you've got control for. And I mean, back when we started the website. Yeah. Yeah. Like one of the reasons why we realized that we had to run the evals ourselves and couldn't just take rules from the labs was just that they would all prompt the models differently. And when you're competing over a few points, then you can pretty easily get- You can put the answer into the model. Yeah. That in the extreme. And like you get crazy cases like back when I'm Googled a Gemini 1.0 Ultra and needed a number that would say it was better than GPT-4 and like constructed, I think never published like chain of thought examples. 32 of them in every topic in MLU to run it, to get the score, like there are so many things that you- They never shipped Ultra, right? That's the one that never made it up. Not widely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure it existed, but yeah. So we were pretty sure that we needed to run them ourselves and just run them in the same way across all the models. Yeah. And we were, we also did certain from the start that you couldn't look at those in isolation. You needed to look at them alongside the cost and performance stuff. Yeah.swyx [00:09:24]: Okay. A couple of technical questions. I mean, so obviously I also thought about this and I didn't do it because of cost. Yep. Did you not worry about costs? Were you funded already? Clearly not, but you know. No. Well, we definitely weren't at the start.Micah [00:09:36]: So like, I mean, we're paying for it personally at the start. There's a lot of money. Well, the numbers weren't nearly as bad a couple of years ago. So we certainly incurred some costs, but we were probably in the order of like hundreds of dollars of spend across all the benchmarking that we were doing. Yeah. So nothing. Yeah. It was like kind of fine. Yeah. Yeah. These days that's gone up an enormous amount for a bunch of reasons that we can talk about. But yeah, it wasn't that bad because you can also remember that like the number of models we were dealing with was hardly any and the complexity of the stuff that we wanted to do to evaluate them was a lot less. Like we were just asking some Q&A type questions and then one specific thing was for a lot of evals initially, we were just like sampling an answer. You know, like, what's the answer for this? Like, we didn't want to go into the answer directly without letting the models think. We weren't even doing chain of thought stuff initially. And that was the most useful way to get some results initially. Yeah.swyx [00:10:33]: And so for people who haven't done this work, literally parsing the responses is a whole thing, right? Like because sometimes the models, the models can answer any way they feel fit and sometimes they actually do have the right answer, but they just returned the wrong format and they will get a zero for that unless you work it into your parser. And that involves more work. And so, I mean, but there's an open question whether you should give it points for not following your instructions on the format.Micah [00:11:00]: It depends what you're looking at, right? Because you can, if you're trying to see whether or not it can solve a particular type of reasoning problem, and you don't want to test it on its ability to do answer formatting at the same time, then you might want to use an LLM as answer extractor approach to make sure that you get the answer out no matter how unanswered. But these days, it's mostly less of a problem. Like, if you instruct a model and give it examples of what the answers should look like, it can get the answers in your format, and then you can do, like, a simple regex.swyx [00:11:28]: Yeah, yeah. And then there's other questions around, I guess, sometimes if you have a multiple choice question, sometimes there's a bias towards the first answer, so you have to randomize the responses. All these nuances, like, once you dig into benchmarks, you're like, I don't know how anyone believes the numbers on all these things. It's so dark magic.Micah [00:11:47]: You've also got, like… You've got, like, the different degrees of variance in different benchmarks, right? Yeah. So, if you run four-question multi-choice on a modern reasoning model at the temperatures suggested by the labs for their own models, the variance that you can see on a four-question multi-choice eval is pretty enormous if you only do a single run of it and it has a small number of questions, especially. So, like, one of the things that we do is run an enormous number of all of our evals when we're developing new ones and doing upgrades to our intelligence index to bring in new things. Yeah. So, that we can dial in the right number of repeats so that we can get to the 95% confidence intervals that we're comfortable with so that when we pull that together, we can be confident in intelligence index to at least as tight as, like, a plus or minus one at a 95% confidence. Yeah.swyx [00:12:32]: And, again, that just adds a straight multiple to the cost. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.George [00:12:37]: So, that's one of many reasons that cost has gone up a lot more than linearly over the last couple of years. We report a cost to run the artificial analysis. We report a cost to run the artificial analysis intelligence index on our website, and currently that's assuming one repeat in terms of how we report it because we want to reflect a bit about the weighting of the index. But our cost is actually a lot higher than what we report there because of the repeats.swyx [00:13:03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And probably this is true, but just checking, you don't have any special deals with the labs. They don't discount it. You just pay out of pocket or out of your sort of customer funds. Oh, there is a mix. So, the issue is that sometimes they may give you a special end point, which is… Ah, 100%.Micah [00:13:21]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. So, we laser focus, like, on everything we do on having the best independent metrics and making sure that no one can manipulate them in any way. There are quite a lot of processes we've developed over the last couple of years to make that true for, like, the one you bring up, like, right here of the fact that if we're working with a lab, if they're giving us a private endpoint to evaluate a model, that it is totally possible. That what's sitting behind that black box is not the same as they serve on a public endpoint. We're very aware of that. We have what we call a mystery shopper policy. And so, and we're totally transparent with all the labs we work with about this, that we will register accounts not on our own domain and run both intelligence evals and performance benchmarks… Yeah, that's the job. …without them being able to identify it. And no one's ever had a problem with that. Because, like, a thing that turns out to actually be quite a good… …good factor in the industry is that they all want to believe that none of their competitors could manipulate what we're doing either.swyx [00:14:23]: That's true. I never thought about that. I've been in the database data industry prior, and there's a lot of shenanigans around benchmarking, right? So I'm just kind of going through the mental laundry list. Did I miss anything else in this category of shenanigans? Oh, potential shenanigans.Micah [00:14:36]: I mean, okay, the biggest one, like, that I'll bring up, like, is more of a conceptual one, actually, than, like, direct shenanigans. It's that the things that get measured become things that get targeted by labs that they're trying to build, right? Exactly. So that doesn't mean anything that we should really call shenanigans. Like, I'm not talking about training on test set. But if you know that you're going to be great at another particular thing, if you're a researcher, there are a whole bunch of things that you can do to try to get better at that thing that preferably are going to be helpful for a wide range of how actual users want to use the thing that you're building. But will not necessarily work. Will not necessarily do that. So, for instance, the models are exceptional now at answering competition maths problems. There is some relevance of that type of reasoning, that type of work, to, like, how we might use modern coding agents and stuff. But it's clearly not one for one. So the thing that we have to be aware of is that once an eval becomes the thing that everyone's looking at, scores can get better on it without there being a reflection of overall generalized intelligence of these models. Getting better. That has been true for the last couple of years. It'll be true for the next couple of years. There's no silver bullet to defeat that other than building new stuff to stay relevant and measure the capabilities that matter most to real users. Yeah.swyx [00:15:58]: And we'll cover some of the new stuff that you guys are building as well, which is cool. Like, you used to just run other people's evals, but now you're coming up with your own. And I think, obviously, that is a necessary path once you're at the frontier. You've exhausted all the existing evals. I think the next point in history that I have for you is AI Grant that you guys decided to join and move here. What was it like? I think you were in, like, batch two? Batch four. Batch four. Okay.Micah [00:16:26]: I mean, it was great. Nat and Daniel are obviously great. And it's a really cool group of companies that we were in AI Grant alongside. It was really great to get Nat and Daniel on board. Obviously, they've done a whole lot of great work in the space with a lot of leading companies and were extremely aligned. With the mission of what we were trying to do. Like, we're not quite typical of, like, a lot of the other AI startups that they've invested in.swyx [00:16:53]: And they were very much here for the mission of what we want to do. Did they say any advice that really affected you in some way or, like, were one of the events very impactful? That's an interesting question.Micah [00:17:03]: I mean, I remember fondly a bunch of the speakers who came and did fireside chats at AI Grant.swyx [00:17:09]: Which is also, like, a crazy list. Yeah.George [00:17:11]: Oh, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was something about, you know, speaking to Nat and Daniel about the challenges of working through a startup and just working through the questions that don't have, like, clear answers and how to work through those kind of methodically and just, like, work through the hard decisions. And they've been great mentors to us as we've built artificial analysis. Another benefit for us was that other companies in the batch and other companies in AI Grant are pushing the capabilities. Yeah. And I think that's a big part of what AI can do at this time. And so being in contact with them, making sure that artificial analysis is useful to them has been fantastic for supporting us in working out how should we build out artificial analysis to continue to being useful to those, like, you know, building on AI.swyx [00:17:59]: I think to some extent, I'm mixed opinion on that one because to some extent, your target audience is not people in AI Grants who are obviously at the frontier. Yeah. Do you disagree?Micah [00:18:09]: To some extent. To some extent. But then, so a lot of what the AI Grant companies are doing is taking capabilities coming out of the labs and trying to push the limits of what they can do across the entire stack for building great applications, which actually makes some of them pretty archetypical power users of artificial analysis. Some of the people with the strongest opinions about what we're doing well and what we're not doing well and what they want to see next from us. Yeah. Yeah. Because when you're building any kind of AI application now, chances are you're using a whole bunch of different models. You're maybe switching reasonably frequently for different models and different parts of your application to optimize what you're able to do with them at an accuracy level and to get better speed and cost characteristics. So for many of them, no, they're like not commercial customers of ours, like we don't charge for all our data on the website. Yeah. They are absolutely some of our power users.swyx [00:19:07]: So let's talk about just the evals as well. So you start out from the general like MMU and GPQA stuff. What's next? How do you sort of build up to the overall index? What was in V1 and how did you evolve it? Okay.Micah [00:19:22]: So first, just like background, like we're talking about the artificial analysis intelligence index, which is our synthesis metric that we pulled together currently from 10 different eval data sets to give what? We're pretty much the same as that. Pretty confident is the best single number to look at for how smart the models are. Obviously, it doesn't tell the whole story. That's why we published the whole website of all the charts to dive into every part of it and look at the trade-offs. But best single number. So right now, it's got a bunch of Q&A type data sets that have been very important to the industry, like a couple that you just mentioned. It's also got a couple of agentic data sets. It's got our own long context reasoning data set and some other use case focused stuff. As time goes on. The things that we're most interested in that are going to be important to the capabilities that are becoming more important for AI, what developers are caring about, are going to be first around agentic capabilities. So surprise, surprise. We're all loving our coding agents and how the model is going to perform like that and then do similar things for different types of work are really important to us. The linking to use cases to economically valuable use cases are extremely important to us. And then we've got some of the. Yeah. These things that the models still struggle with, like working really well over long contexts that are not going to go away as specific capabilities and use cases that we need to keep evaluating.swyx [00:20:46]: But I guess one thing I was driving was like the V1 versus the V2 and how bad it was over time.Micah [00:20:53]: Like how we've changed the index to where we are.swyx [00:20:55]: And I think that reflects on the change in the industry. Right. So that's a nice way to tell that story.Micah [00:21:00]: Well, V1 would be completely saturated right now. Almost every model coming out because doing things like writing the Python functions and human evil is now pretty trivial. It's easy to forget, actually, I think how much progress has been made in the last two years. Like we obviously play the game constantly of like the today's version versus last week's version and the week before and all of the small changes in the horse race between the current frontier and who has the best like smaller than 10B model like right now this week. Right. And that's very important to a lot of developers and people and especially in this particular city of San Francisco. But when you zoom out a couple of years ago, literally most of what we were doing to evaluate the models then would all be 100% solved by even pretty small models today. And that's been one of the key things, by the way, that's driven down the cost of intelligence at every tier of intelligence. We can talk about more in a bit. So V1, V2, V3, we made things harder. We covered a wider range of use cases. And we tried to get closer to things developers care about as opposed to like just the Q&A type stuff that MMLU and GPQA represented. Yeah.swyx [00:22:12]: I don't know if you have anything to add there. Or we could just go right into showing people the benchmark and like looking around and asking questions about it. Yeah.Micah [00:22:21]: Let's do it. Okay. This would be a pretty good way to chat about a few of the new things we've launched recently. Yeah.George [00:22:26]: And I think a little bit about the direction that we want to take it. And we want to push benchmarks. Currently, the intelligence index and evals focus a lot on kind of raw intelligence. But we kind of want to diversify how we think about intelligence. And we can talk about it. But kind of new evals that we've kind of built and partnered on focus on topics like hallucination. And we've got a lot of topics that I think are not covered by the current eval set that should be. And so we want to bring that forth. But before we get into that.swyx [00:23:01]: And so for listeners, just as a timestamp, right now, number one is Gemini 3 Pro High. Then followed by Cloud Opus at 70. Just 5.1 high. You don't have 5.2 yet. And Kimi K2 Thinking. Wow. Still hanging in there. So those are the top four. That will date this podcast quickly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love it. I love it. No, no. 100%. Look back this time next year and go, how cute. Yep.George [00:23:25]: Totally. A quick view of that is, okay, there's a lot. I love it. I love this chart. Yeah.Micah [00:23:30]: This is such a favorite, right? Yeah. And almost every talk that George or I give at conferences and stuff, we always put this one up first to just talk about situating where we are in this moment in history. This, I think, is the visual version of what I was saying before about the zooming out and remembering how much progress there's been. If we go back to just over a year ago, before 01, before Cloud Sonnet 3.5, we didn't have reasoning models or coding agents as a thing. And the game was very, very different. If we go back even a little bit before then, we're in the era where, when you look at this chart, open AI was untouchable for well over a year. And, I mean, you would remember that time period well of there being very open questions about whether or not AI was going to be competitive, like full stop, whether or not open AI would just run away with it, whether we would have a few frontier labs and no one else would really be able to do anything other than consume their APIs. I am quite happy overall that the world that we have ended up in is one where... Multi-model. Absolutely. And strictly more competitive every quarter over the last few years. Yeah. This year has been insane. Yeah.George [00:24:42]: You can see it. This chart with everything added is hard to read currently. There's so many dots on it, but I think it reflects a little bit what we felt, like how crazy it's been.swyx [00:24:54]: Why 14 as the default? Is that a manual choice? Because you've got service now in there that are less traditional names. Yeah.George [00:25:01]: It's models that we're kind of highlighting by default in our charts, in our intelligence index. Okay.swyx [00:25:07]: You just have a manually curated list of stuff.George [00:25:10]: Yeah, that's right. But something that I actually don't think every artificial analysis user knows is that you can customize our charts and choose what models are highlighted. Yeah. And so if we take off a few names, it gets a little easier to read.swyx [00:25:25]: Yeah, yeah. A little easier to read. Totally. Yeah. But I love that you can see the all one jump. Look at that. September 2024. And the DeepSeek jump. Yeah.George [00:25:34]: Which got close to OpenAI's leadership. They were so close. I think, yeah, we remember that moment. Around this time last year, actually.Micah [00:25:44]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. Yeah, well, a couple of weeks. It was Boxing Day in New Zealand when DeepSeek v3 came out. And we'd been tracking DeepSeek and a bunch of the other global players that were less known over the second half of 2024 and had run evals on the earlier ones and stuff. I very distinctly remember Boxing Day in New Zealand, because I was with family for Christmas and stuff, running the evals and getting back result by result on DeepSeek v3. So this was the first of their v3 architecture, the 671b MOE.Micah [00:26:19]: And we were very, very impressed. That was the moment where we were sure that DeepSeek was no longer just one of many players, but had jumped up to be a thing. The world really noticed when they followed that up with the RL working on top of v3 and R1 succeeding a few weeks later. But the groundwork for that absolutely was laid with just extremely strong base model, completely open weights that we had as the best open weights model. So, yeah, that's the thing that you really see in the game. But I think that we got a lot of good feedback on Boxing Day. us on Boxing Day last year.George [00:26:48]: Boxing Day is the day after Christmas for those not familiar.George [00:26:54]: I'm from Singapore.swyx [00:26:55]: A lot of us remember Boxing Day for a different reason, for the tsunami that happened. Oh, of course. Yeah, but that was a long time ago. So yeah. So this is the rough pitch of AAQI. Is it A-A-Q-I or A-A-I-I? I-I. Okay. Good memory, though.Micah [00:27:11]: I don't know. I'm not used to it. Once upon a time, we did call it Quality Index, and we would talk about quality, performance, and price, but we changed it to intelligence.George [00:27:20]: There's been a few naming changes. We added hardware benchmarking to the site, and so benchmarks at a kind of system level. And so then we changed our throughput metric to, we now call it output speed, and thenswyx [00:27:32]: throughput makes sense at a system level, so we took that name. Take me through more charts. What should people know? Obviously, the way you look at the site is probably different than how a beginner might look at it.Micah [00:27:42]: Yeah, that's fair. There's a lot of fun stuff to dive into. Maybe so we can hit past all the, like, we have lots and lots of emails and stuff. The interesting ones to talk about today that would be great to bring up are a few of our recent things, I think, that probably not many people will be familiar with yet. So first one of those is our omniscience index. So this one is a little bit different to most of the intelligence evils that we've run. We built it specifically to look at the embedded knowledge in the models and to test hallucination by looking at when the model doesn't know the answer, so not able to get it correct, what's its probability of saying, I don't know, or giving an incorrect answer. So the metric that we use for omniscience goes from negative 100 to positive 100. Because we're simply taking off a point if you give an incorrect answer to the question. We're pretty convinced that this is an example of where it makes most sense to do that, because it's strictly more helpful to say, I don't know, instead of giving a wrong answer to factual knowledge question. And one of our goals is to shift the incentive that evils create for models and the labs creating them to get higher scores. And almost every evil across all of AI up until this point, it's been graded by simple percentage correct as the main metric, the main thing that gets hyped. And so you should take a shot at everything. There's no incentive to say, I don't know. So we did that for this one here.swyx [00:29:22]: I think there's a general field of calibration as well, like the confidence in your answer versus the rightness of the answer. Yeah, we completely agree. Yeah. Yeah.George [00:29:31]: On that. And one reason that we didn't do that is because. Or put that into this index is that we think that the, the way to do that is not to ask the models how confident they are.swyx [00:29:43]: I don't know. Maybe it might be though. You put it like a JSON field, say, say confidence and maybe it spits out something. Yeah. You know, we have done a few evils podcasts over the, over the years. And when we did one with Clementine of hugging face, who maintains the open source leaderboard, and this was one of her top requests, which is some kind of hallucination slash lack of confidence calibration thing. And so, Hey, this is one of them.Micah [00:30:05]: And I mean, like anything that we do, it's not a perfect metric or the whole story of everything that you think about as hallucination. But yeah, it's pretty useful and has some interesting results. Like one of the things that we saw in the hallucination rate is that anthropics Claude models at the, the, the very left-hand side here with the lowest hallucination rates out of the models that we've evaluated amnesty is on. That is an interesting fact. I think it probably correlates with a lot of the previously, not really measured vibes stuff that people like about some of the Claude models. Is the dataset public or what's is it, is there a held out set? There's a hell of a set for this one. So we, we have published a public test set, but we we've only published 10% of it. The reason is that for this one here specifically, it would be very, very easy to like have data contamination because it is just factual knowledge questions. We would. We'll update it at a time to also prevent that, but with yeah, kept most of it held out so that we can keep it reliable for a long time. It leads us to a bunch of really cool things, including breakdown quite granularly by topic. And so we've got some of that disclosed on the website publicly right now, and there's lots more coming in terms of our ability to break out very specific topics. Yeah.swyx [00:31:23]: I would be interested. Let's, let's dwell a little bit on this hallucination one. I noticed that Haiku hallucinates less than Sonnet hallucinates less than Opus. And yeah. Would that be the other way around in a normal capability environments? I don't know. What's, what do you make of that?George [00:31:37]: One interesting aspect is that we've found that there's not really a, not a strong correlation between intelligence and hallucination, right? That's to say that the smarter the models are in a general sense, isn't correlated with their ability to, when they don't know something, say that they don't know. It's interesting that Gemini three pro preview was a big leap over here. Gemini 2.5. Flash and, and, and 2.5 pro, but, and if I add pro quickly here.swyx [00:32:07]: I bet pro's really good. Uh, actually no, I meant, I meant, uh, the GPT pros.George [00:32:12]: Oh yeah.swyx [00:32:13]: Cause GPT pros are rumored. We don't know for a fact that it's like eight runs and then with the LM judge on top. Yeah.George [00:32:20]: So we saw a big jump in, this is accuracy. So this is just percent that they get, uh, correct and Gemini three pro knew a lot more than the other models. And so big jump in accuracy. But relatively no change between the Google Gemini models, between releases. And the hallucination rate. Exactly. And so it's likely due to just kind of different post-training recipe, between the, the Claude models. Yeah.Micah [00:32:45]: Um, there's, there's driven this. Yeah. You can, uh, you can partially blame us and how we define intelligence having until now not defined hallucination as a negative in the way that we think about intelligence.swyx [00:32:56]: And so that's what we're changing. Uh, I know many smart people who are confidently incorrect.George [00:33:02]: Uh, look, look at that. That, that, that is very humans. Very true. And there's times and a place for that. I think our view is that hallucination rate makes sense in this context where it's around knowledge, but in many cases, people want the models to hallucinate, to have a go. Often that's the case in coding or when you're trying to generate newer ideas. One eval that we added to artificial analysis is, is, is critical point and it's really hard, uh, physics problems. Okay.swyx [00:33:32]: And is it sort of like a human eval type or something different or like a frontier math type?George [00:33:37]: It's not dissimilar to frontier frontier math. So these are kind of research questions that kind of academics in the physics physics world would be able to answer, but models really struggled to answer. So the top score here is not 9%.swyx [00:33:51]: And when the people that, that created this like Minway and, and, and actually off via who was kind of behind sweep and what organization is this? Oh, is this, it's Princeton.George [00:34:01]: Kind of range of academics from, from, uh, different academic institutions, really smart people. They talked about how they turn the models up in terms of the temperature as high temperature as they can, where they're trying to explore kind of new ideas in physics as a, as a thought partner, just because they, they want the models to hallucinate. Um, yeah, sometimes it's something new. Yeah, exactly.swyx [00:34:21]: Um, so not right in every situation, but, um, I think it makes sense, you know, to test hallucination in scenarios where it makes sense. Also, the obvious question is, uh, this is one of. Many that there is there, every lab has a system card that shows some kind of hallucination number, and you've chosen to not, uh, endorse that and you've made your own. And I think that's a, that's a choice. Um, totally in some sense, the rest of artificial analysis is public benchmarks that other people can independently rerun. You provide it as a service here. You have to fight the, well, who are we to, to like do this? And your, your answer is that we have a lot of customers and, you know, but like, I guess, how do you converge the individual?Micah [00:35:08]: I mean, I think, I think for hallucinations specifically, there are a bunch of different things that you might care about reasonably, and that you'd measure quite differently, like we've called this a amnesty and solutionation rate, not trying to declare the, like, it's humanity's last hallucination. You could, uh, you could have some interesting naming conventions and all this stuff. Um, the biggest picture answer to that. It's something that I actually wanted to mention. Just as George was explaining, critical point as well is, so as we go forward, we are building evals internally. We're partnering with academia and partnering with AI companies to build great evals. We have pretty strong views on, in various ways for different parts of the AI stack, where there are things that are not being measured well, or things that developers care about that should be measured more and better. And we intend to be doing that. We're not obsessed necessarily with that. Everything we do, we have to do entirely within our own team. Critical point. As a cool example of where we were a launch partner for it, working with academia, we've got some partnerships coming up with a couple of leading companies. Those ones, obviously we have to be careful with on some of the independent stuff, but with the right disclosure, like we're completely comfortable with that. A lot of the labs have released great data sets in the past that we've used to great success independently. And so it's between all of those techniques, we're going to be releasing more stuff in the future. Cool.swyx [00:36:26]: Let's cover the last couple. And then we'll, I want to talk about your trends analysis stuff, you know? Totally.Micah [00:36:31]: So that actually, I have one like little factoid on omniscience. If you go back up to accuracy on omniscience, an interesting thing about this accuracy metric is that it tracks more closely than anything else that we measure. The total parameter count of models makes a lot of sense intuitively, right? Because this is a knowledge eval. This is the pure knowledge metric. We're not looking at the index and the hallucination rate stuff that we think is much more about how the models are trained. This is just what facts did they recall? And yeah, it tracks parameter count extremely closely. Okay.swyx [00:37:05]: What's the rumored size of GPT-3 Pro? And to be clear, not confirmed for any official source, just rumors. But rumors do fly around. Rumors. I get, I hear all sorts of numbers. I don't know what to trust.Micah [00:37:17]: So if you, if you draw the line on omniscience accuracy versus total parameters, we've got all the open ways models, you can squint and see that likely the leading frontier models right now are quite a lot bigger than the ones that we're seeing right now. And the one trillion parameters that the open weights models cap out at, and the ones that we're looking at here, there's an interesting extra data point that Elon Musk revealed recently about XAI that for three trillion parameters for GROK 3 and 4, 6 trillion for GROK 5, but that's not out yet. Take those together, have a look. You might reasonably form a view that there's a pretty good chance that Gemini 3 Pro is bigger than that, that it could be in the 5 to 10 trillion parameters. To be clear, I have absolutely no idea, but just based on this chart, like that's where you would, you would land if you have a look at it. Yeah.swyx [00:38:07]: And to some extent, I actually kind of discourage people from guessing too much because what does it really matter? Like as long as they can serve it as a sustainable cost, that's about it. Like, yeah, totally.George [00:38:17]: They've also got different incentives in play compared to like open weights models who are thinking to supporting others in self-deployment for the labs who are doing inference at scale. It's I think less about total parameters in many cases. When thinking about inference costs and more around number of active parameters. And so there's a bit of an incentive towards larger sparser models. Agreed.Micah [00:38:38]: Understood. Yeah. Great. I mean, obviously if you're a developer or company using these things, not exactly as you say, it doesn't matter. You should be looking at all the different ways that we measure intelligence. You should be looking at cost to run index number and the different ways of thinking about token efficiency and cost efficiency based on the list prices, because that's all it matters.swyx [00:38:56]: It's not as good for the content creator rumor mill where I can say. Oh, GPT-4 is this small circle. Look at GPT-5 is this big circle. And then there used to be a thing for a while. Yeah.Micah [00:39:07]: But that is like on its own, actually a very interesting one, right? That is it just purely that chances are the last couple of years haven't seen a dramatic scaling up in the total size of these models. And so there's a lot of room to go up properly in total size of the models, especially with the upcoming hardware generations. Yes.swyx [00:39:29]: So, you know. Taking off my shitposting face for a minute. Yes. Yes. At the same time, I do feel like, you know, especially coming back from Europe, people do feel like Ilya is probably right that the paradigm is doesn't have many more orders of magnitude to scale out more. And therefore we need to start exploring at least a different path. GDPVal, I think it's like only like a month or so old. I was also very positive when it first came out. I actually talked to Tejo, who was the lead researcher on that. Oh, cool. And you have your own version.George [00:39:59]: It's a fantastic. It's a fantastic data set. Yeah.swyx [00:40:01]: And maybe it will recap for people who are still out of it. It's like 44 tasks based on some kind of GDP cutoff that's like meant to represent broad white collar work that is not just coding. Yeah.Micah [00:40:12]: Each of the tasks have a whole bunch of detailed instructions, some input files for a lot of them. It's within the 44 is divided into like two hundred and twenty two to five, maybe subtasks that are the level of that we run through the agenda. And yeah, they're really interesting. I will say that it doesn't. It doesn't necessarily capture like all the stuff that people do at work. No avail is perfect is always going to be more things to look at, largely because in order to make the tasks well enough to find that you can run them, they need to only have a handful of input files and very specific instructions for that task. And so I think the easiest way to think about them are that they're like quite hard take home exam tasks that you might do in an interview process.swyx [00:40:56]: Yeah, for listeners, it is not no longer like a long prompt. It is like, well, here's a zip file with like a spreadsheet or a PowerPoint deck or a PDF and go nuts and answer this question.George [00:41:06]: OpenAI released a great data set and they released a good paper which looks at performance across the different web chat bots on the data set. It's a great paper, encourage people to read it. What we've done is taken that data set and turned it into an eval that can be run on any model. So we created a reference agentic harness that can run. Run the models on the data set, and then we developed evaluator approach to compare outputs. That's kind of AI enabled, so it uses Gemini 3 Pro Preview to compare results, which we tested pretty comprehensively to ensure that it's aligned to human preferences. One data point there is that even as an evaluator, Gemini 3 Pro, interestingly, doesn't do actually that well. So that's kind of a good example of what we've done in GDPVal AA.swyx [00:42:01]: Yeah, the thing that you have to watch out for with LLM judge is self-preference that models usually prefer their own output, and in this case, it was not. Totally.Micah [00:42:08]: I think the way that we're thinking about the places where it makes sense to use an LLM as judge approach now, like quite different to some of the early LLM as judge stuff a couple of years ago, because some of that and MTV was a great project that was a good example of some of this a while ago was about judging conversations and like a lot of style type stuff. Here, we've got the task that the grader and grading model is doing is quite different to the task of taking the test. When you're taking the test, you've got all of the agentic tools you're working with, the code interpreter and web search, the file system to go through many, many turns to try to create the documents. Then on the other side, when we're grading it, we're running it through a pipeline to extract visual and text versions of the files and be able to provide that to Gemini, and we're providing the criteria for the task and getting it to pick which one more effectively meets the criteria of the task. Yeah. So we've got the task out of two potential outcomes. It turns out that we proved that it's just very, very good at getting that right, matched with human preference a lot of the time, because I think it's got the raw intelligence, but it's combined with the correct representation of the outputs, the fact that the outputs were created with an agentic task that is quite different to the way the grading model works, and we're comparing it against criteria, not just kind of zero shot trying to ask the model to pick which one is better.swyx [00:43:26]: Got it. Why is this an ELO? And not a percentage, like GDP-VAL?George [00:43:31]: So the outputs look like documents, and there's video outputs or audio outputs from some of the tasks. It has to make a video? Yeah, for some of the tasks. Some of the tasks.swyx [00:43:43]: What task is that?George [00:43:45]: I mean, it's in the data set. Like be a YouTuber? It's a marketing video.Micah [00:43:49]: Oh, wow. What? Like model has to go find clips on the internet and try to put it together. The models are not that good at doing that one, for now, to be clear. It's pretty hard to do that with a code editor. I mean, the computer stuff doesn't work quite well enough and so on and so on, but yeah.George [00:44:02]: And so there's no kind of ground truth, necessarily, to compare against, to work out percentage correct. It's hard to come up with correct or incorrect there. And so it's on a relative basis. And so we use an ELO approach to compare outputs from each of the models between the task.swyx [00:44:23]: You know what you should do? You should pay a contractor, a human, to do the same task. And then give it an ELO and then so you have, you have human there. It's just, I think what's helpful about GDPVal, the OpenAI one, is that 50% is meant to be normal human and maybe Domain Expert is higher than that, but 50% was the bar for like, well, if you've crossed 50, you are superhuman. Yeah.Micah [00:44:47]: So we like, haven't grounded this score in that exactly. I agree that it can be helpful, but we wanted to generalize this to a very large number. It's one of the reasons that presenting it as ELO is quite helpful and allows us to add models and it'll stay relevant for quite a long time. I also think it, it can be tricky looking at these exact tasks compared to the human performance, because the way that you would go about it as a human is quite different to how the models would go about it. Yeah.swyx [00:45:15]: I also liked that you included Lama 4 Maverick in there. Is that like just one last, like...Micah [00:45:20]: Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, it is the, it is the best model released by Meta. And... So it makes it into the homepage default set, still for now.George [00:45:31]: Other inclusion that's quite interesting is we also ran it across the latest versions of the web chatbots. And so we have...swyx [00:45:39]: Oh, that's right.George [00:45:40]: Oh, sorry.swyx [00:45:41]: I, yeah, I completely missed that. Okay.George [00:45:43]: No, not at all. So that, which has a checkered pattern. So that is their harness, not yours, is what you're saying. Exactly. And what's really interesting is that if you compare, for instance, Claude 4.5 Opus using the Claude web chatbot, it performs worse than the model in our agentic harness. And so in every case, the model performs better in our agentic harness than its web chatbot counterpart, the harness that they created.swyx [00:46:13]: Oh, my backwards explanation for that would be that, well, it's meant for consumer use cases and here you're pushing it for something.Micah [00:46:19]: The constraints are different and the amount of freedom that you can give the model is different. Also, you like have a cost goal. We let the models work as long as they want, basically. Yeah. Do you copy paste manually into the chatbot? Yeah. Yeah. That's, that was how we got the chatbot reference. We're not going to be keeping those updated at like quite the same scale as hundreds of models.swyx [00:46:38]: Well, so I don't know, talk to a browser base. They'll, they'll automate it for you. You know, like I have thought about like, well, we should turn these chatbot versions into an API because they are legitimately different agents in themselves. Yes. Right. Yeah.Micah [00:46:53]: And that's grown a huge amount of the last year, right? Like the tools. The tools that are available have actually diverged in my opinion, a fair bit across the major chatbot apps and the amount of data sources that you can connect them to have gone up a lot, meaning that your experience and the way you're using the model is more different than ever.swyx [00:47:10]: What tools and what data connections come to mind when you say what's interesting, what's notable work that people have done?Micah [00:47:15]: Oh, okay. So my favorite example on this is that until very recently, I would argue that it was basically impossible to get an LLM to draft an email for me in any useful way. Because most times that you're sending an email, you're not just writing something for the sake of writing it. Chances are context required is a whole bunch of historical emails. Maybe it's notes that you've made, maybe it's meeting notes, maybe it's, um, pulling something from your, um, any of like wherever you at work store stuff. So for me, like Google drive, one drive, um, in our super base databases, if we need to do some analysis or some data or something, preferably model can be plugged into all of those things and can go do some useful work based on it. The things that like I find most impressive currently that I am somewhat surprised work really well in late 2025, uh, that I can have models use super base MCP to query read only, of course, run a whole bunch of SQL queries to do pretty significant data analysis. And. And make charts and stuff and can read my Gmail and my notion. And okay. You actually use that. That's good. That's, that's, that's good. Is that a cloud thing? To various degrees of order, but chat GPD and Claude right now, I would say that this stuff like barely works in fairness right now. Like.George [00:48:33]: Because people are actually going to try this after they hear it. If you get an email from Micah, odds are it wasn't written by a chatbot.Micah [00:48:38]: So, yeah, I think it is true that I have never actually sent anyone an email drafted by a chatbot. Yet.swyx [00:48:46]: Um, and so you can, you can feel it right. And yeah, this time, this time next year, we'll come back and see where it's going. Totally. Um, super base shout out another famous Kiwi. Uh, I don't know if you've, you've any conversations with him about anything in particular on AI building and AI infra.George [00:49:03]: We have had, uh, Twitter DMS, um, with, with him because we're quite big, uh, super base users and power users. And we probably do some things more manually than we should in. In, in super base support line because you're, you're a little bit being super friendly. One extra, um, point regarding, um, GDP Val AA is that on the basis of the overperformance of the models compared to the chatbots turns out, we realized that, oh, like our reference harness that we built actually white works quite well on like gen generalist agentic tasks. This proves it in a sense. And so the agent harness is very. Minimalist. I think it follows some of the ideas that are in Claude code and we, all that we give it is context management capabilities, a web search, web browsing, uh, tool, uh, code execution, uh, environment. Anything else?Micah [00:50:02]: I mean, we can equip it with more tools, but like by default, yeah, that's it. We, we, we give it for GDP, a tool to, uh, view an image specifically, um, because the models, you know, can just use a terminal to pull stuff in text form into context. But to pull visual stuff into context, we had to give them a custom tool, but yeah, exactly. Um, you, you can explain an expert. No.George [00:50:21]: So it's, it, we turned out that we created a good generalist agentic harness. And so we, um, released that on, on GitHub yesterday. It's called stirrup. So if people want to check it out and, and it's a great, um, you know, base for, you know, generalist, uh, building a generalist agent for more specific tasks.Micah [00:50:39]: I'd say the best way to use it is get clone and then have your favorite coding. Agent make changes to it, to do whatever you want, because it's not that many lines of code and the coding agents can work with it. Super well.swyx [00:50:51]: Well, that's nice for the community to explore and share and hack on it. I think maybe in, in, in other similar environments, the terminal bench guys have done, uh, sort of the Harbor. Uh, and so it's, it's a, it's a bundle of, well, we need our minimal harness, which for them is terminus and we also need the RL environments or Docker deployment thing to, to run independently. So I don't know if you've looked at it. I don't know if you've looked at the harbor at all, is that, is that like a, a standard that people want to adopt?George [00:51:19]: Yeah, we've looked at it from a evals perspective and we love terminal bench and, and host benchmarks of, of, of terminal mention on artificial analysis. Um, we've looked at it from a, from a coding agent perspective, but could see it being a great, um, basis for any kind of agents. I think where we're getting to is that these models have gotten smart enough. They've gotten better, better tools that they can perform better when just given a minimalist. Set of tools and, and let them run, let the model control the, the agentic workflow rather than using another framework that's a bit more built out that tries to dictate the, dictate the flow. Awesome.swyx [00:51:56]: Let's cover the openness index and then let's go into the report stuff. Uh, so that's the, that's the last of the proprietary art numbers, I guess. I don't know how you sort of classify all these. Yeah.Micah [00:52:07]: Or call it, call it, let's call it the last of like the, the three new things that we're talking about from like the last few weeks. Um, cause I mean, there's a, we do a mix of stuff that. Where we're using open source, where we open source and what we do and, um, proprietary stuff that we don't always open source, like long context reasoning data set last year, we did open source. Um, and then all of the work on performance benchmarks across the site, some of them, we looking to open source, but some of them, like we're constantly iterating on and so on and so on and so on. So there's a huge mix, I would say, just of like stuff that is open source and not across the side. So that's a LCR for people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.swyx [00:52:41]: Uh, but let's, let's, let's talk about open.Micah [00:52:42]: Let's talk about openness index. This. Here is call it like a new way to think about how open models are. We, for a long time, have tracked where the models are open weights and what the licenses on them are. And that's like pretty useful. That tells you what you're allowed to do with the weights of a model, but there is this whole other dimension to how open models are. That is pretty important that we haven't tracked until now. And that's how much is disclosed about how it was made. So transparency about data, pre-training data and post-training data. And whether you're allowed to use that data and transparency about methodology and training code. So basically, those are the components. We bring them together to score an openness index for models so that you can in one place get this full picture of how open models are.swyx [00:53:32]: I feel like I've seen a couple other people try to do this, but they're not maintained. I do think this does matter. I don't know what the numbers mean apart from is there a max number? Is this out of 20?George [00:53:44]: It's out of 18 currently, and so we've got an openness index page, but essentially these are points, you get points for being more open across these different categories and the maximum you can achieve is 18. So AI2 with their extremely open OMO3 32B think model is the leader in a sense.swyx [00:54:04]: It's hooking face.George [00:54:05]: Oh, with their smaller model. It's coming soon. I think we need to run, we need to get the intelligence benchmarks right to get it on the site.swyx [00:54:12]: You can't have it open in the next. We can not include hooking face. We love hooking face. We'll have that, we'll have that up very soon. I mean, you know, the refined web and all that stuff. It's, it's amazing. Or is it called fine web? Fine web. Fine web.Micah [00:54:23]: Yeah, yeah, no, totally. Yep. One of the reasons this is cool, right, is that if you're trying to understand the holistic picture of the models and what you can do with all the stuff the company's contributing, this gives you that picture. And so we are going to keep it up to date alongside all the models that we do intelligence index on, on the site. And it's just an extra view to understand.swyx [00:54:43]: Can you scroll down to this? The, the, the, the trade-offs chart. Yeah, yeah. That one. Yeah. This, this really matters, right? Obviously, because you can b

Do You Have A Hormone Imbalance? Take my FREE Hormone Symptom Profile Assessment: https://bit.ly/takemyhormonequiz Studies show women spend an average of six years shrugging off perimenopause symptoms before realizing what's actually going on. Six. Years. Now, I'm no mathlete, but that's six years of wasted time, money, and energy spent second-guessing our bodies… for relief that feels temporary at best. Today, we're kicking off my new series, The Perimenopause Reset”— where we cut through the noise and focus on what actually works in perimenopause. In this episode, I'm peeling back the curtain on the habits, beliefs, and outdated strategies I want every woman in perimenopause to leave behind in 2025 and address your most commonly Googled questions, including: ✅ Why am I gaining weight in perimenopause even though I'm eating less? ✅ Can you have a hormone imbalance even if your blood work is normal? ✅ Why do I have so many symptoms at the same time? ✅ Is too much cardio bad for hormones in perimenopause? ✅ How does caffeine impact your hormones? ✅ Should I be counting macros after 40? ✅ Why can't I sleep through the night in perimenopause? If you're starting the new year more exhausted than motivated, this episode is for you. — NEXT STEPS: Do You Have A Hormone Imbalance? Take my FREE Hormone Symptom Profile Assessment: https://bit.ly/takemyhormonequiz Become a Podcast Insider + Subscribe to The Hot Flash–Hormone hacks, recipes, and lifestyle tips I don't share anywhere else!: https://areyoutheremidlife.com/ Tired of Tossing and Turning? Grab my FREE “Better Sleep After 40” Supplement Cheat Sheet: https://monicalanetopete.kit.com/sleepbetter — *Disclaimer: Information provided in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. The information is not intended or implied to supplement or replace professional medical treatment, advice, and/or diagnosis. I share the strategies that have worked for me, and you are advised to do your own research and speak to your medical provider for care.

Dangerous Dames & Privacy Academy's Glenn Meder Expose the Three Biggest Threats and Deliver Simple, Powerful Steps to Protect Yourself In this practical, no-fluff episode of Dangerous Dames, hosts Courtenay Turner and Dr. Lee Merritt welcome Glenn Meder from Privacy Academy to break down the three core threats stealing your privacy today: Hackers & Scammers — always hunting your data for profit Big Tech — monetizing every click, search, and purchase Big Brother — government surveillance turning "safety" into total control Glenn explains why these threats all want the same thing — your newest, freshest data — and why "they already have everything" is the myth keeping people complacent. He shares his story (sparked by COVID's coordinated tyranny via technology) and delivers real first steps: cover your camera and mic (with mic locks and webcam covers), stop unnecessary data leaks, and understand why even "free" tools like VPNs are only part of the puzzle. The Dames and Glenn emphasize self-responsibility, critical thinking, parallel systems, and local action — because privacy is 21st-century self-defense. Exclusive for Dangerous Dames listeners: Join the Privacy Academy Webinar on January 14th, 2025 at 7pm CST for a one-hour course on why privacy matters, five immediate actions, and live Q&A with Glenn and Eric Meder. Register here (Dangerous Dames exclusive link): ⁠https://event.webinarjam.com/92859/register/3yn56fk0⁠ Key Takeaways from the Episode: The three threats all want your latest data — stop the flow now Simple tools: camera covers, mic locks, de-Googled phones Why COVID was the launchpad for digital tyranny Optimism through action: personal steps + local resistance + faith Too hot for YouTube — watch the replay and archives at ⁠https://thedangerousdames.com⁠ Support the show — use code “DANGEROUS” at our affiliates:⁠Medical Rebel Shop⁠ ⋅ ⁠RNC Store⁠ ⋅ ⁠Defy the Grid⁠ ⋅ ⁠MyRedLight.com⁠ ------------------------------------- ▶Follow & Connect with ⁠Dr. Merritt⁠ ▶Follow & Connect with ⁠Courtenay⁠(Secure your copy of her book “⁠The Final Betrayal: How Technocracy Destroys America⁠”, a #1 Amazon Best Seller, also available at ⁠Technocracy.news⁠ ) — Courtenay Turner & Dr. Lee Merritt Let's get dangerous. Dangerous Dames ©2026. All rights reserved. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you've ever Googled a dream and got five different "meanings," you've met the problem. In this episode I show you the solution—the only tool that reliably moves you from "I have no idea" to "Oh my gosh, that's it." We'll cover why most dream dictionaries are trash, how to spot an accurate symbol dictionary, and where to get mine (web, app, and a limited-time $0.99 Kindle deal). Then I put it to work on a listener dream: Bus Ride • Turmeric Bath • Flooded Building (spiritual leadership, channeling mandate, health flags, early-life trauma).   What you'll learn The 3 reasons a real symbol dictionary supercharges interpretation How accuracy self-validates across your dreams Why "only the dreamer knows" and projective dreamwork slows you down Live analysis using the exact method I teach   Resources • Search the Dictionary (web): https://healingthroughdreams.com/dictionary/ • Aisling Dreams App (iOS—free): https://apps.apple.com/us/app/aisling-dreams/id6753309760 • Aisling Dreams App (Android—free): https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dream_analysis.aisling_dreams • Kindle Book (promo to Jan 9): https://www.amazon.com/How-Interpret-Your-Dreams-discover-ebook/dp/B004G5Z39I/   Chapters 00:00 The one thing you must have to interpret a dream 00:28 Why most dream dictionaries stink (and how to spot it) 01:55 Where to search my accurate dictionary online 02:35 $0.99 Kindle promo & built-in lookup hack 03:01 London story: suits, shiny shoes… and brutal blisters 04:03 Free app (23 updates and counting) 04:11 The 3 reasons a real dictionary wins (symbols, validation, wisdom) 05:57 Example entry: Lion = Spiritual Leadership 07:41 Garbage books, contradictions, and "personal association" traps 11:20 "Only the dreamer knows"? My live radio takedown 13:17 Why projective dreamwork stalls beginners 16:12 Why some "experts" say no dictionaries (and why they're wrong) 18:33 Calls to action: search, app, Kindle 18:46 Listener dream: Bus Ride · Turmeric Bath · Flooded Building 19:12 "Equinox Benedict" = aiming for a blessed horizon 20:20 Bus vs. subway: choose spiritual leadership over autopilot 21:30 Swimming class: facing spiritual fears 21:41 Transit police & the $200+ fine: channel more—outside your comfort zone 23:38 Mom on the bus: the "I'm behind" anxiety link 24:23 Pink handbag: speak from the heart, receipts = karma handled 25:26 Turmeric bath & orange: digestive/immune flag to address 26:34 Flooded floors 1–2: early-life trauma that keeps you in your head 27:31 Wrap + next steps

When your year’s earnings are stolen and you need a quick way to make some cash on the cheap, you invent chocolate chip cookies. Dave Young: Welcome to the Empire Builders Podcast, teaching business owners the not-so-secret techniques that took famous businesses from mom-and-pop to major brands. Stephen Semple is a marketing consultant, story collector and storyteller. I’m Steven’s sidekick and business partner, Dave Young. Before we get into today’s episode, a word from our sponsor, which is, well, it’s us, but we’re highlighting ads we’ve written and produced for our clients. So here’s one of those. [North Texas Gutters Ad] Dave Young: Welcome to the Empire Builders Podcast. Dave Young here, along with Stephen Semple. Gosh, Stephen just keeps coming up with topics that are just so near and dear to my heart, and I think I might know the essence of this. Is it an empire? We’re going to talk about the birth of the chocolate chip cookie. Stephen Semple: Sure, but what’s the empire? There’s a lot sold? Dave Young: There’s a lot of… Boy, if you would have invested in chocolate chip cookies back in the day, think how much you’d have today. I’m guessing this has to do with Toll House- Stephen Semple: Yes. Dave Young: … and the inn… Was it an inn or a woman’s name? Stephen Semple: Yes. Inn. Dave Young: It was an inn. They’ve told the story I think on the bags or something. Anyway, have at it. I’m all in on chocolate chip cookies. Stephen Semple: So it’s the late 1920s and cookies have actually emerged as a business. The National Biscuit Company, Nabisco- Dave Young: 1920s. Stephen Semple: … yeah, has been a top seller for the last 20 years with their Oreo, mainly bought in stores, not made at home. Basically, to really understand the birth, we’ve got to go back to Whitman, Massachusetts, to Ruth Wakefield, who taught Home Ec, and she was also college-educated and she was interested in cooking. Ruth, her husband Ken, quit their job, invest their life savings into converting a 19th-century old home into a restaurant. They want to create a restaurant of their dreams, has these seven tables, doing traditional New England food, even has a kid’s menu with a dessert menu, but by the time they open the doors, it’s 1930. They’ve invested two years in doing this. Dave Young: Oh, no. And? Stephen Semple: And they’re down to their last few dollars. Now, they had picked a location with lots of traffic. They had picked a location that was basically where wealthy people traveled from Boston to Cape Cod and went through this area. They called the restaurant the Toll House. Now, because it was located on an old toll road, it was not the toll building, but it was located on an old toll road. Dave Young: Sure. Stephen Semple: Things started slow, but word got out and it started to get busy and they were known for their desserts, including the simplest. They did this butter pecan cookie that came with ice cream. Soon, customers are requesting the cookie without the ice cream. So they add cookies, they add these cookies as a standalone dessert. It’s 1935. It’s Labor Day. It’s the end of season. They’ve got lots of cash. They’ve done really well, and they are robbed. Dave Young: Oh, no. Stephen Semple: All their money is gone. They’re now at this crisis point because they’re the end of the season- Dave Young: Were they keeping all their money in a cookie jar? Stephen Semple: Perhaps. Basically, it’s the end of the season, they have no money, and they need to make something that is affordable, but it won’t cost much to make so they can create cash. They start with the butter pecan cookie, but then, she has this idea of a chocolate cookie. Dave Young: Yeah, pecans are expensive. Stephen Semple: Right, right. So Ruth says, “Okay, here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to take a baker’s chocolate bar. I’m going to cut it up and add it to this cookie.” That was the idea. Now, they’re made out of baker’s chocolate, which is unsweetened, and it didn’t work out so well, and so they then started taking a Nestle semi-sweet bar and they took basically an ice pick to that and chip it away and let small pieces into it, which then created this sweetness without it being overly sweet. Dave Young: Yeah, because you’ve got the sweetness of the sugar and the dough and all of that working for you, too. Stephen Semple: Yeah, and they called them chocolate crunch cookies. Dave Young: Chocolate crunch cookies. Stephen Semple: Because remember it was the pecan. They were still a pecan with the chocolate chips. Dave Young: Oh, okay. Stephen Semple: And people started asking for the recipe. In fact, Boston Globe newspaper published the recipe and the recipe went crazy. Now- Dave Young: Sure. Stephen Semple: … enter Edouard Muller, who’s the Nestle CEO, and he’s in the US office. Sales are down 60% because war breaks out in Europe, not down in the US, but he wants to break into the US market because the US market is small for them at that point. He sees this sales spike in the Northeast. He’s like, “There’s this 500% increase in sales around Whitman, Massachusetts area.” Dave Young: Of Nestle chocolate. Stephen Semple: Right. He’s like, “What’s going on with that?” So he approaches them about buying the rights for the recipe. Dave Young: Okay. Didn’t know you could do that, but sure. Stephen Semple: Well, and in many ways, one could argue it was published by the newspaper, so it was in public domain, but he approaches them and he says, “Look, I want the rights to this recipe.” They pay her a dollar for it, plus hire her as a consultant, publish the recipe on the package and share the name of the restaurant so it also promotes the restaurant. That’s the deal they cut. Dave Young: Toll House. Yeah. Okay. Stephen Semple: Nestle changes how their bar is made, making it easier to cut up, and they rebrand and sales drop. Dave Young: Sales dropped? Stephen Semple: Yeah. Because what they find is the texture’s all wrong, people can’t break it along the lines of the bar and all this other stuff. So they have this crazy idea: why not just sell the broken pieces? Dave Young: Sure. Stephen Semple: And they start off calling them Nestle Toll House Morsels. Dave Young: Yeah, brilliant. Stephen Semple: The other thing he does is he gets it out of the candy aisle and puts it in the baking aisle. Because that was the other problem is it was sitting in the candy aisle. Dave Young: It’s where it belongs. Yeah. Stephen Semple: Put it in the baking aisle. Sales soar. Now remember the story of Ruth chipping off the chocolate? So why’d they call them morsels? People, because they knew the story, were calling them chips. Dave Young: Chips. Chocolate chips. Stephen Semple: Right. Now global sales in Nestle in 1945 rise 125% to 225 million, which would be about four billion today. During the war, they advertise, “Bake for your soldiers overseas,” and offer this as a recipe. Now, following World War II, we come into the convenience age and we have the new Nestle CEO, Carl Abegg, who does pre-made cookie doughs, and he launches those in 1955. And here’s the thing. When we talked about this as being the birth of the chocolate chip cookie, up until 1950, the bestselling cookie was Oreo. Dave Young: Really? Okay. Stephen Semple: Yeah. 1955, Oreo is no longer the favorite cookie that has been for decades, is now the chocolate chip cookie. Dave Young: In a package like Chips Ahoy or something? Stephen Semple: Yeah. Well, just like chocolate chip… Yeah, just basically that ends up becoming the category. Dave Young: But you couldn’t make Oreos. Stephen Semple: Well, that’s true. That’s true. But the point is, it starts to shift. Now Nabisco starts to also want to enter the race with something new. Lee Bickmore wants to get into this game, but now not with a prepackaged chocolate chip cookie. The problem was, how do you make something shelf-stable, can’t use eggs and butter, they are hard and not chewy but they still taste good, they’re crispy rather than chewy? He does this test market with children and parents, and they also remove the nuts from the original recipe. So now what they’ve got is they’ve got this hard, crispy cookie with no nuts in it, and they decide to package that up. Well, what’s a great fun name to put on it? Chips Ahoy. Dave Young: Chips Ahoy. Yeah. Stephen Semple: Right? Fun way to emphasize a large number of chocolate chips. Dave Young: And it’s all chips. Yeah. Stephen Semple: Yeah. They advertise on kids’ shows and magazines. They have a cookie man as the character, and they advertise there’s 16 chips in it. Dave Young: So kids are breaking them apart, counting them. Stephen Semple: Yeah. That was Nabisco entering the race, and then basically Nestle does these attack ads saying the real Toll House cookie needs to be baked at home, and so this whole chocolate chip cookie war happens. But the part I wanted to talk about on this was what I thought was really interesting was the evolution of this idea of a chocolate chip. Dave Young: Stay tuned. We’re going to wrap up this story and tell you how to apply this lesson to your business right after this. [Using Stories To Sell Ad] Dave Young: Let’s pick up our story where we left off, and trust me, you haven’t missed a thing. Stephen Semple: What I thought was really interesting was the evolution of this idea of a chocolate chip. It came from this person having this restaurant, making the desserts, hit this point where, holy smokes, we’ve got to come up with something that is small-priced, that we can easily make, that we can create some cash, and she just decides, “Well, I’m just going to hack some stuff off of this bar of chocolate.” Advertises the recipe, it gets no one. And the smart part, we’ve got to give Nestle… It would be one thing to say this is all a creation of Ruth Wakefield, we have to give Nestle some credit here. They noticed a sales increase in a particular market where they were doing nothing different and they went, “Hmm, we should investigate this.” They discovered this idea about the recipe and they approached her. And then, when they did the sales of it and it didn’t work, they recognized, “Maybe we need to do something different.” Look, it’d be easy for a lot of businesses to go, “Well, that’s just a Massachusetts thing,” and dismiss it rather than going, “Okay, let’s actually do it in chips and let’s actually get it into the baking aisle rather than the candy aisle.” So to me, there’s two stories here. There’s Ruth Whitmore’s story in terms of the crating of this chocolate chip and the recipe, but there’s also the story of Nestle who did not give up on the idea and figured a few things out that really brought it into the mainstream. Dave Young: Yeah. If you can’t sell your product on its own, figure out what people are using it for and help with that, help people make more of that. Stephen Semple: Yes. Edouard Muller deserves some of the credit on this as well, as well as Ruth. Dave Young: Yeah. I think it’s interesting that Nestle always called them, they still call them morsels. Stephen Semple: They do. Dave Young: I had a dog once that ate a bag of chocolate chips, and that’s what we always called them was chocolate chips. Stephen Semple: Correct. Dave Young: Nobody in the home ever calls them morsels. Stephen Semple: And I think on the packaging, aren’t they chocolate chip morsels or something? Dave Young: No, they’re morsels. Stephen Semple: Oh, they still are morsels. Dave Young: I still looked it up, they’re Nestle Semi-Sweet Chocolate Morsels. We could dive into the nuance of that, but it’s almost like Kleenex, right? Maybe they didn’t want chocolate chip. Maybe they wanted chocolate chip to just remain as the generic- Stephen Semple: Maybe. Dave Young: … name for these little pieces of chocolate, and the morsels, they wanted to keep that identity. I don’t know. I don’t know, but it’s interesting. I just quickly Googled, and Nestle has the recipe on and the story on their website and they- Stephen Semple: They do. Dave Young: … show the ingredients as a bag of chocolate chip morsels. Stephen Semple: They still honor that story, yeah. Dave Young: Yeah, it’s amazing. By the way, the dog turned out okay. Stephen Semple: That’s good. Dave Young: It was a little dachshund. By the way, you’re not supposed to give chocolate to dogs. My kids were eating a bowl of chocolate chips and left it on the floor. Stephen Semple: Oh, dear. Dave Young: This poor little dachshund ate them and it wasn’t pretty for a while. Stephen Semple: What was the dachshund’s name, Dave? Can you remember? Dave Young: Oh, gosh, that was… Stephen Semple: Chip? Dave Young: No, I think it was Dixie maybe. We should’ve called her Chip. It happened on a cold night during a blizzard and we ended up having to get the veterinarian out of his house. He went down and met us and gave her a sedative because she was just shaking like a leaf on a tree. Stephen Semple: Yeah? Wow. Dave Young: I won’t tell you why we had to put her in the bathtub. Stephen Semple: No, we don’t need that. Dave Young: The chocolate was- Stephen Semple: We don’t need that part of the story. Dave Young: … rocketing out the other end of the dog. Where were we? Chocolate chip cookie. Stephen Semple: What’s interesting here is it would be easy to sit there and say Ruth didn’t get a great deal on this because it led to this massive product for Nestle at the same time. It’s one of those ones that’s hard to say because what I wasn’t able to find out is what the consulting agreement looked like in terms of how much was she being paid on that, because who knows, that might’ve been a lot of money. Again, it’s one of those ones, I thought it was interesting because so many companies today… One of the biggest challenges that I have with finding these stories is so many companies today have given up telling the origin story, like how did this idea come to be? One of the things that’s interesting is, now it might be a legal obligation, but one of the things that’s interesting is Nestle’s still telling the story of the origin of this idea of the morsels, that it came from this person and this place. I actually think they need to lean into it more, but companies are not telling, they’re not telling these early stories. They’re very, very hard to find. What we know is people connect with those stories. They’re interesting, right? “Oh, this thing happened.” And don’t tell it in a phony way, tell it in an authentic way. So I commend Nestle for still telling that story and honoring that story and having that original recipe, and I think war companies need to be telling that story, and it can be the origin of a business, can also be the origin of a product. Dave Young: Well, here’s what we know about story. In terms of memory in humans, a well-told story becomes autobiographical vicarious memory. So when I hear the story of the Toll House cookie recipe and the struggles of owning a restaurant on a busy road and the Depression, and then you finally invent this cookie that people end up loving, the little part of me experiences that story. Stephen Semple: Right. Dave Young: Right? Stephen Semple: Yeah. Dave Young: And when I bite into one of those cookies, if I might remember that story and go, “Oh, this is the cookie that those people along that toll road were eating back in 1935.” Businesses think that all I need to do is tell you how the cookie tastes and what it’s made of, and you’ll be great with that, but no. The story seals it in my memory. It literally becomes part of my memory because it was told to me in story form. And that’s a powerful, powerful lesson. Even if you’re a plumber or veterinarian, we want to know your origin story. If you’re a veterinarian, there’s no way you became a veterinarian because you hated pets. Stephen Semple: Yes. Dave Young: Right? You fell in love with the idea of helping animals at some point in your life. I want to know that story, right? Stephen Semple: Look, I’m going to put a plug in right now. Go over to usingstoriestosell.com, sign up for a 90-minute starter session, and we’ll help you tell that story. We’ll help you figure it out. You’ll walk out at that 90 minutes for the first draft of what we call your origin story. There’s a little bit of homework and whatnot you have to do, but go over to Using Stories to Sell and we’ll help with that story. Again, one of the things I found is interesting is Nestle still telling that story, and so many companies have moved on from telling it. Look, I think they could tell it better. I think they could tell it with more emotion. I commend them for doing it. Look, Budweiser does that in an interesting way every time you see the Budweiser wagon with the draft horses pulling- Dave Young: Yeah, with the Clydesdales. Stephen Semple: With the Clydesdales. That’s a way of saying,” “Hey, we’ve been around as a company for a long, long time,” in this really simple manner of using that. It’s brilliant, and people connect with it. Dave Young: Yeah. We love it. We love story. Stephen Semple: Yeah. Dave Young: It’s basically our operating system. Stephen Semple: It really is. It really is. Dave Young: It is. Well, thank you for the story of Toll House. Stephen Semple: All right. Awesome. Thanks, David. Dave Young: I feel like I don’t need a cookie because I’ve been watching my calorie intake. It’s working. Stephen Semple: There you go. Dave Young: I’m not going to have a cookie, but I’m going to think about a cookie. Stephen Semple: Well, and Dave, you’re doing really well. Dave shared at the beginning of this about how you’re fitting into some clothes that you’ve… Look, anytime we fit into some old clothes that we haven’t worn in a long time, that’s a good damn day. Dave Young: I agree. This is a pullover that I got at Whistler up in Canada almost 20 years ago. 2006 is when I was up there. It looks brand new. I could sell it as vintage. Probably should. Stephen Semple: There you go. You’re looking good, Dave. Dave Young: Thanks, Stephen. Thank you for another exciting episode of The Empire Builders. We’ll talk to you next time. Stephen Semple: All right. Thanks, David. Dave Young: Thanks for listening to the podcast. Please share us, subscribe on your favorite podcast app and leave us a big, fat, juicy five-star rating and review at Apple Podcasts. If you’d like to schedule your own 90-minute empire building session, you can do it at empirebuildingprogram.com.

In this episode of Remnant Radio, we debunk the“prophetic words” from Jeremiah Johnson. Joined by guest co-host JonMark Baker with the Minor Prophets Podcast and Michael Miller, we clarify up front that this is not a cessationist critique—everyone on the panel affirms and practices continuationist gifts, including prophecy. Our aim is to model biblical “testing and weighing” (1 Cor. 14:29; 1 Thess. 5:19–22) for the health of the church.We walk through multiple clips from Johnson's “2025” prophecy, assessing whether the claims are genuinely prophetic, testable, and rooted in sound exegesis—or whether they function as “words of obvious,” built from current events and broadly plausible predictions. We also address methodological red flags, including numerology-style reasoning, vague claims that cannot be meaningfully verified, and the way certain segments appear to preempt criticism by framing accusations as “Leviathan” twisting words. Along the way, we discuss the importance of judging not only the content of a prophetic word but also the prophet's credibility and fruit, especially when public prophecy has a track record of harm, manipulation, or failed predictions.How to Test Prophecy Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMsjeViSScFHAxEWVUTMiJvLHWHF7hOE1 Join the conversation, test everything, and hold fast to what is good.00:00 Introduction02:15 Why charismatics must test prophecy04:30 How bad prophecy damages the church07:15 Trump as a “wartime president” prophecy10:05 Assassination warnings and predictable claims11:55 Israel conflict prophecy evaluated12:50 Candace Owens “Spirit of Jehu” prophecy14:40 Kanye West prophecy that backfired16:15 Mike Bickle and “passing the crown” prophecy19:05 Explaining “words of obvious”20:55 Can this be Googled? Testing modern prophecy24:00 Numbers 25 and Matthew 25 for 202525:45 Sexual sin prophecy and obvious trends27:10 Misusing Mephibosheth in prophecy31:00 Allegations of spiritual manipulation33:45 Bob Gladstone and the Charlotte church plant37:15 Failed accountability and oversight49:35 Increasing angelic activity claims51:10 Leviathan, accusation, and twisting words54:40 Does this prophecy point to Christ or the prophet?57:45 Biblical tests for false prophecy (Jeremiah 23 & 28)01:00:30 Public prophecy versus local church prophecy01:03:45 Why we are not against prophecy01:05:00 The cost of untested

Done for you business foundations in 90 days!You don't need to figure out all the tech before you start your business. You just need to start.If you're a healthcare professional thinking about leaving your job and starting your own business, chances are you've Googled this question more than once:“How do I start a business?”And then closed the tab because it was too overwhelming.Here's what I hear from people like you all the time:“I don't know what needs to happen first.”“I'm not a tech person—I don't even know where to begin.”“I'm still working full-time. How am I supposed to set all this up on the side?”“I want to look professional, but I feel like a beginner.”I get it. The back-end of running a business, including email, scheduling, payments, client forms, and website, can feel like a second full-time job.That's why I created a done-for-you service that sets up your business systems for you so that you can step into entrepreneurship without the tech stress.

Do You Have A Hormone Imbalance? Take my FREE Hormone Symptom Profile Assessment: https://bit.ly/takemyhormonequiz If you've been popping Advil lately like it's M&M's just to get through the day, you are not alone!  According to the latest research, nearly 100 million Americans between the ages of 20 and 64 suffer from chronic pain. And, up to 70% of all chronic pain sufferers are women (no surprise there!) In today's episode, I'm peeling back the curtain on how perimenopause and menopause can accelerate inflammation in our bodies–plus, the exact 3-step protocol I take my clients through to nourish, detoxify, and optimize their hormones and ease pain naturally. In this episode, I‘ll address your most commonly Googled questions, including: ✅ Why do my joints hurt more in perimenopause or menopause? ✅ Can a hormone imbalance cause joint pain and body aches? ✅ Why am I suddenly stiff and sore even when I haven't worked out? ✅ Why does my body hurt even though my labs are “normal”? ✅ What's the connection between cortisol, inflammation, and chronic pain? ✅ Can low estrogen cause joint pain or arthritis symptoms? ✅ Why does pain flare when I'm stressed, tired, or not sleeping well? If you're 1 in 5 of all women suffering from chronic pain, this episode is for you! — EPISODES MENTIONED: EP 8 | Do Hormone Balancing Supplements Work?: https://pod.fo/e/233fc7 EP 14 | Is Estrogen Dominance Causing Your Hormonal Weight Gain? 3 Quick Tips To Move The Scale: https://pod.fo/e/23e32f EP 15 | Hypothyroidism And Weight Gain: 3 Healthy Hacks To Help Shed Those Extra Pounds: https://pod.fo/e/240c5f EP 17 | The Hidden Cause of Hormonal Weight Gain in Women Over 40: Adrenal Fatigue: https://pod.fo/e/24389 EP 20 | Menopause, Sleeping Problems, and Post Menopausal Weight Gain: Is Low Estrogen to Blame?: https://pod.fo/e/248b3b EP 36 | Hormone Hot Topics: Got Menopause? Take A Cold Plunge!; The 30-Minute-A-Day Habit That Can Increase Your Life Expectancy; PLUS Actress Jenny Garth Blames Her Arthritis on Perimenopause: https://pod.fo/e/2656cd — FREE RESOURCES: Do You Have A Hormone Imbalance? Take my FREE Hormone Symptom Profile Assessment: https://bit.ly/takemyhormonequiz Become a Podcast Insider + Subscribe to The Hot Flash–Hormone hacks, recipes, and lifestyle tips I don't share anywhere else!: https://areyoutheremidlife.com/ Tired of Tossing and Turning? Grab my FREE “Better Sleep After 40” Supplement Cheat Sheet: https://monicalanetopete.kit.com/sleepbetter — *Disclaimer: Information provided in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. The information is not intended or implied to supplement or replace professional medical treatment, advice, and/or diagnosis. I share the strategies that have worked for me, and you are advised to do your own research and speak to your medical provider for care.

Do You Have A Hormone Imbalance? Take my FREE Hormone Symptom Profile Assessment: https://bit.ly/takemyhormonequiz What if sugar cravings in perimenopause aren't about sugar at all? What if they're our body's way of asking for something else—and we've just been answering the wrong question? In today's episode, I'm peeling back the curtain on what sugar cravings really mean in perimenopause—and how to calm them without cutting carbs. In this episode, I‘ll address your most commonly Googled questions, including: ✅ Why am I craving sugar so much in perimenopause? ✅ Why do sugar cravings get worse in midlife? ✅ Why do I crave sugar even when I'm not hungry? ✅ How does hormone imbalance contribute to sugar cravings? ✅ Do carbs cause sugar cravings? ✅ Why do cravings get worse when I cut carbs? ✅ How does blood sugar affect sugar cravings? ✅ Can stress cause sugar cravings? ✅ How do I stop sugar cravings without cutting carbs? If you're craving sugar even when you're not hungry (or you're cutting carbs but still dealing with intense cravings), this episode's for you. — EPISODES MENTIONED: 104 | Are Carbs Killing Your Metabolism? The 3 Protein Rules That Fuel Fat Loss in Perimenopause: https://pod.fo/e/35ea0c 105 | The 4 Biggest Metabolism Mistakes You're Probably Making in Perimenopause (And How to Fix Them):https://pod.fo/e/362da4 — FREE RESOURCES: Do You Have A Hormone Imbalance? Take my FREE Hormone Symptom Profile Assessment: https://bit.ly/takemyhormonequiz Become a Podcast Insider + Subscribe to The Hot Flash–Hormone hacks, recipes, and lifestyle tips I don't share anywhere else!: https://areyoutheremidlife.com/ Tired of Tossing and Turning? Grab my FREE “Better Sleep After 40” Supplement Cheat Sheet: https://monicalanetopete.kit.com/sleepbetter — *Disclaimer: Information provided in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. The information is not intended or implied to supplement or replace professional medical treatment, advice, and/or diagnosis. I share the strategies that have worked for me, and you are advised to do your own research and speak to your medical provider for care.

Allen, Joel, and Yolanda recap the UK Offshore Wind Supply Chain Spotlight in Edinburgh and Great British Energy’s £1 billion manufacturing push. Plus Ørsted’s European onshore wind sale, Xocean’s unmanned survey tech at Moray West, and why small suppliers must scale or risk being left behind. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! You are listening to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by build turbines.com. Learn, train, and be a part of the Clean Energy Revolution. Visit build turbines.com today. Now, here’s your host. Allen Hall, Joel Saxon, Phil Totaro, and Rosemary Barnes. Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host Allen Hall in Charlotte, North Carolina, the Queen City. I have Yolanda Pone and Joel Saxon back in Austin, Texas. Rosemary Barnes is taking the week off. We just got back from Scotland, Joel and I did, and we had a really great experience at the UK offshore wind supply chain spotlight 2025 in Edinburgh, where we met with a number of wind energy suppliers and technology advocates. A Joel Saxum: lot going on there, Joel. Yeah. One of the really cool things I enjoyed about that, um, get together the innovation spotlight. [00:01:00] One, the way they had it set up kind of an exhibition space, but not really an exhibition. It was like just a place to gather and everybody kind of had their own stand, but it was more how can we facilitate this conversation And then in the same spot, kind of like we’ve seen in other conferences, the speaking slots. So you could be kind of one in ear, oh one in year here, listening to all the great things that they’re doing. But having those technical conversations. And I guess the second thing I wanted to share was. Thank you to all of the, the UK companies, right? So the, all the Scottish people that we met over there, all the people from, from England and, and around, uh, the whole island there, everybody was very, very open and wanting to have conversations and wanting to share their technology, their solutions. Um, how they’re helping the industry or, or what other people can do to collaborate with them to help the industry. That’s what a lot of this, uh, spotlight was about. So from our, our seat, um, that’s something that we, you know, of course with the podcast, we’re always trying to share collaboration, kind of breed success for everybody. So kudos to the ORE [00:02:00] Catapult for putting that event on. Allen Hall: Yeah, a big thing. So, or Catapult, it was a great event. I’ve met a lot of people that I’ve only known through LinkedIn, so it’s good to see them face to face and. Something that we’ve had on the podcast. So we did a number of podcast recordings while we’re there. They’ll be coming out over the next several weeks, so stay tuned for it. You know, one of the main topics at that event in Edinburg was the great British Energy announcement. This is huge, Joel. Uh, so, you know, you know, the United Kingdoms has been really pushing offshore wind ambitions for years, but they don’t have a lot of manufacturing in country. Well, that’s all about the change. Uh, great British energy. Which is a government backed energy company just unveiled a 1 billion pound program called Energy Engineered in the uk, and their mission is pretty straightforward. Build it in the uk, employ people in the uk, and keep the economic benefits of the clean energy transition on British soil. 300 million pounds of that is really [00:03:00] going to be focused on supply chain immediately. That can happen in Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England. It’s a big promotion for the UK on the wind energy side. I see good things coming out of this. What were your thoughts when you heard that Joel Saxum: announcement, Joel? The offshore wind play. Right. It’s like something like this doesn’t happen to economies very often. Right. It’s not very often that we have like this just new industry that pops outta nowhere. Right. We’re, we’re not making, you know, it’s like when, when. Automotive industry popped up in the, you know, the early 19 hundreds. Like that was this crazy new thing. It’s an industrial revolution. It’s all this new opportunity. So offshore wind in, in my idea, same kind of play, right? It’s this new thing or newer thing. Um, and as a government, um, coming together to say, Hey, this is happening. We have the resources here. We’re gonna be deploying these things here. Why would we not take advantage of building this here? I mean. Any politician that says I’m bringing jobs or I’m bringing in, you [00:04:00] know, um, bringing in funds to be able to prop up an industry or to, uh, you know, start a manufacturing facility here or support an engineering department here, um, to be able to take advantage of something like this. Absolutely right. Why offshore this stuff when you can do it Here, you’ve got the people, you have the engineering expertise. It’s your coastline. You’ve operated offshore. You know how to build them, operate ’em, all of these different things. Keep as much of that in-house as you can. I, I mean, we’ve, we’ve watched it in the US over the last few years. Kind of try to prop up a supply chain here as well. But, you know, with regulations and everything changing, it’s too risky to invest. What the, it looks like what the UK has seen over there is, well, we might as well invest here. We’ll throw the money at it. Let’s, let’s make it happen on our shores. The Allen Hall: comparison’s obvious to the IRA Bill Yolanda and the IRA bill came out, what, A little over two years ago, three years ago, roughly. We didn’t see a lot of activity [00:05:00] on the manufacturing side of building new factories to do wind. In fact, there was a lot of talk about it initially and then it. It really died down within probably a year or so. Uh, you know, obviously it’s not a universal statement. There were some industries model piles and some steelworks and that kind of thing that would would happen. But sometimes these exercises are a little treacherous and hard to walk down. What’s your thoughts on the UK government stepping in and really. Putting their money where the mouth is. Yolanda Padron: I think it’s, I mean, it’s, it’s great, right? It’s great for the industry. It’ll, it’ll be a great case, I think, for us to look at just moving forward and to, like you said, government’s putting their money where their mouth is and what exactly that means. You know, not something where it’s a short term promise and then things get stalled, or corporations start looking [00:06:00] elsewhere. If every player works the way that they’re, it’s looking like they’re going to play right now, then it, it could be a really good thing for the industry. Allen Hall: Well, the, the United States always did it in a complicated way through tax policy, which means it runs through the IRS. So any bill that passes Congress and gets signed by the president, they like to run through the IRS, and then they make the tax regulations, which takes six months to 12 months, and then when they come out, need a tax attorney to tell you what is actually written and what it means. Joel, when we went through the IRA bill, we went through it a couple of times actually, and we were looking for those great investments in new technology companies. I just remember seeing it. That isn’t part of the issue, the complexity, and maybe that’s where GB Energy is trying to do something different where there’s trying to simplify the process. Joel Saxum: Yeah. The complexity of the problem over here is like that. With any. Business type stuff, right? Even when you get to the stage of, um, oh, this is a write off, this is this [00:07:00] for small businesses and those things, so it’s like a delayed benefit. You gotta plan for this thing. Or there’s a tax credit here, there. Even when we had the, um, the electric vehicle tax credits for, uh, individuals, right? That wasn’t not something you got right away. It was something you had to apply for and that was like later on and like could be. 15 months from now before you see anything of it. And so it’s all kind of like a difficult muddy water thing in the i a bill. You’re a hundred percent correct. Right. Then we passed that thing. We didn’t have the, the rules locked down for like two years. Right. And I remember we had, we had a couple experts on the podcast talking about that, and it was like, oh, the 45 x and the 45 y and the, the C this and the be that, and it was like. You needed to have a degree in this thing to figure it out, whereas the, what it sounds like to me, right, and I’m not on the inside of this policy, I dunno exactly how it’s getting executed. What it sounds like to me is this is more grant based or, and or loan program based. So it’s kinda like, hey, apply and we’ll give you the money, or we’ll fund a loan that supports some money of with low interest, zero [00:08:00] interest, whatever that may be. Um, that seems like a more direct way, one to measure ROI. Right, and or to get things done. Just just to get things done. Right. If someone said, Hey, hey, weather guard, lightning Tech. We have a grant here. We’d like to give you a hundred grand to do this. Or it was like, yeah, if you put this much effort in and then next year tax season you might see this and this and this. It’s like, I don’t have time to deal with that. Yolanda Padron: Yeah. We might also just change the rules on you a little bit, and then maybe down the line we’ll see where we go. Yeah. It does seem like they’re, they’re setting up the dominoes to fall in place a bit better. This way. Yeah, absolutely. Joel Saxum: That’s a, that’s a great way to put it, Yolanda. Let’s setting up the dominoes to fall in place. So it’s kinda like, Hey. These are the things we want to get done. This is what we wanna do as an industry. Here’s a pool of money for it, and here’s how you get access to it. Allen Hall: A lot’s gonna change. I remember, was it a couple of months ago, maybe, maybe a year ago, time flies guys. Uh, we were just talking about. That on the way home from [00:09:00]Scotland, like how many people have had in the podcast? It’s a lot over 60 have been on the podcast as guests. Uh, one of the people we want to have on is, uh, Dan McGrail, who’s the CEO of Great British Energy because, uh, we had talked about with Rosemary the possibility of building turbines all in. The uk, they have blade factories. All this stuff is doable, right? They have technology. This is not complicated work. It just needs to be set up and run. And maybe this is the goal is to just run, it may maybe not be OEM focused. I I, that’s what I’m trying to sort through right now as, is it vestas focused? Is it GE focused? Is it Siemens Keesa focused? Is there a focus or will these turbines have GB energy? Stamped on the side of them. I would Joel Saxum: see love to see support for sub-component suppliers. Yeah, I would too. Yeah. The reason being is, is like that’s, that’s more near and dear to my heart. That’s what [00:10:00] I’ve done in my career, is been a part of a lot of different, smaller businesses that are really making a difference by putting in, you know, great engineering comes from small businesses. That’s one of my, my things that I’ve always seen. It seems to be easier to get things done. In a different way with a small business than it does to engineering by committee with 50 people on a team faster, sometimes better. Uh, that’s just my experience, right? So I would like to see these smaller businesses propped up, because again, we need the OEMs. Yes, absolutely. But also spread it around, right? Spread the wealth a little bit. Uh, you know, a, a factory here, a factory there, a engineering facility here. The, uh, you know, an execution plant here. Some things like that. I would love to see more of these kind of, uh, spread around like the, like GB energy’s money spreads around, like fairy dust. Just kind of plant a little here, plant a little in this city, make a little here, instead of just lumping it to one or lumping it into one big, um, OEM. And that doesn’t necessarily [00:11:00] have to be an OEM, right? It could be a blade manufacturer that I’m talking about, or. Or a big, big gearbox thing or something like that. We need those things, and I, I’m all for support for them, but I just don’t think that all of its support should go to them. Speaker 7: Australia’s wind farms are growing fast, but are your operations keeping up? Join us February 17th and 18th at Melbourne’s Poolman on the park for Wind Energy o and M Australia 2026, where you’ll connect with the experts solving real problems in maintenance asset management. And OEM relations. Walk away with practical strategies to cut costs and boost uptime that you can use the moment you’re back on site. Register now at W OM a 2020 six.com. Wind Energy o and m Australia is created by Wind Professionals for wind professionals because this industry needs solutions, not speeches. Allen Hall: If you haven’t booked your tickets to Wind Energy o and m Australia 2026, you need to be doing [00:12:00] that. Today, uh, the event is on February 17th and 18th in Melbourne, Australia. Uh, we’ll have experts from around the world talking everything o and m, and there’s so many good people are gonna be on the agenda, Joel, and a lot of big companies sponsoring this Joel Saxum: year. Allen Hall: You want to give us a highlight? Joel Saxum: Yeah, so like you said, Alan, we have a ton of sponsors going to be there and, and I’d like to say the sponsors. Thank you ahead of time. Of course. Right. We’re, we’re, we’re super excited for them to get involved because as we’ve put this event together. We’re trying to do this no sales pitches, right? So we wanna do this, not pay to play. We want people here that are going to actually share and learn from each other. And the sponsors have been kind enough to get on board with that message and follow through with it. So, like our lead industry sponsor Tilt, uh, Brandon, the team over there, fantastic. Um, they have, they’re, they’re the, their key sponsor here and they’re supporting a lot of this. So the money’s going to applying in experts from all over the [00:13:00] world, putting this thing together. Uh, so we have an, uh. A forum to be able to talk at, uh, C-I-C-N-D-T. From here in the States, uh, we’ve got Palisades, who’s another operator in the, uh, Australian market, uh, rig com. ISP over there doing blade work and it just keeps rolling down. We’ve got squadron on board, squadron’s gonna do one of the coffee carts. Um, so I know that we’ve got a limited bit of tickets left. I think we are 250 in the venue and that’s what the plan is. I think we’re sitting at about half of that leftover. Allen Hall: Yeah, it’s getting close to running out. And I know in Australia everybody likes to purchase their tickets at the last minute. That’s great. And but you don’t wanna miss out because there is limited seating to this event. And you wanna go to WMA w om a 2020 six.com. Look at all the activities. Book some tickets. Plan to book your travel if you’re traveling from the United States or elsewhere. You need a couple of weeks [00:14:00]hopefully to do that ’cause that’s when the airline prices are lower. If you can book a a couple of weeks ahead of time. So now’s the time to go on Woma 2020 six.com. Check out the conference, get your tickets purchased, start buying your airline tickets, and get in your hotel arranged. Now’s the time to do that. Well, as you know, war has been selling off pieces of itself after setbacks in the America market. Uh, sounds like two heavyweight bidders are looking for one of those pieces. Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners and ENG G are allegedly competing for Seds European. Onshore Wind business, a portfolio valued at roughly 1 billion euros. Supposedly the bids are gonna be due this week, although nothing is certain in a billion dollar deals. This is a little bit odd. I understand why Stead is doing it, because they’re, they’re trying to fundraise, but if they do this. They will be essentially European offshore wind only [00:15:00] with some American onshore and a little bit American offshore. Not much. Uh, that will be their future. Are they gonna stay with America one onshore or, and American offshore? Is that a thing? Or they just could, could be all European offshore wind. Is that where Osted is headed? It’s a complicated mix because, you know, they’re, they’re, they’ve negotiated a couple of other deals. Most recently to raise cash. They’re supposedly selling, uh, another set of wind farms. I dunno how official that is, but it’s, it seems like there’s some news stories percolating up out there trying to raise more cash by selling large percentages of offshore wind farms. Where does Joel Saxum: this all end? I don’t know. The interesting thing is like if you looked at Ted, uh, man, two years ago, like if you Googled anything or used a jet, GPT or whatever it was like, gimme the. Three largest wind operators in the world. They were the top three all the time. Right. And, and most valuable. At one point in time, they were worth like, [00:16:00] uh, I don’t wanna say the wrong number, but I, I thought, I thought 25 billion or something like that. They were worth. ATS at one point in time. Market share. Allen Hall: Yeah, Joel Saxum: I think that seems right. So like they, they were huge and it just seems like, yeah, they’re trying to survive, but in survival mode, they’ve just kind, they’re just dwindling themselves down to being just o just a small offshore company. And, or not small, but a small, just a, just a siloed offshore company. A large offshore company. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, like, even just, there was, there’s another article, um. Today we’re, we’re talking here, CIP and Engie looking to buy their European onshore business. They’ve also are putting up like, uh, was it greater Ang of four in Taiwan for, for sale as well. So, I mean, like you said, where does it stop? I don’t know. Um, CIP is an interesting play. Uh, an Eng, CIP and Engie kind of battling this one out ’cause the CIP management team is a bunch of ex or said people, so they know that play very well. Um, ENGIE of course, being a big French [00:17:00] utility. So that one will sell, right? They’re, their European offshore or onshore assets will be gone shortly. Uh, they’ll be sitting with a bunch of offshore assets that they own and partially own around the world. Uh, and of course their, their, I think their US onshore fleet is about a gigawatt, maybe a and a half. Um, that could be the next domino to fall. You don’t, I, sorry, Yolanda, I used your, your, your, uh, euphemism from before, but, um. That they’re actively parting ways with some stuff. I don’t know when it stops. Allen Hall: It is odd, right? EOR has basically stopped a lot of renewables. Stat Craft has pulled back quite a bit. Another Norwegian company. A lot of the nor Northern European companies are slowing down in wind altogether, trying to stick to onshore for the most part. Offshore will still be developed, but just not at the pace that it needed to be developed. There is a lot of money moving around. Billions [00:18:00] and billions of, of euros and dollars moving. And I guess my, my thought is, I’m not sure from a market standpoint where Orid is headed, or even Ecuador for that matter, besides maybe moving back into oil and gas. They never really left it. The direction of the company is a little unknown because these, uh, news articles about sales. Are not really prefaced, right? It’s just like, all right, Taiwan, we’re selling more than 50% of the projects in Taiwan. We’re out, we’re selling European onshore pow, which there’d been some rumors about that, that I had heard, but nothing was really locked in, obviously, until you really start seeing some reliable news sources. Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners is an interesting play just because it kind of keeps it. Up in Denmark and not in France with Engie. That’s what I’m, in my [00:19:00] head. I’m thinking Sted is not likely to sell it to Engie just because they’re French. This is a national, uh, security issue for Denmark Sted. Is it, I I how Engie is involved in this maybe to help set a, a baseline of what the valuation is so that CIP can then purchase it. Do you see CIP losing this, Joel? Joel Saxum: No, I don’t think so. I think, yeah, I think CCIP has to land with this one and, and CI P’s been building a portfolio quietly, building a, not, I guess not quietly, they’ve been building a portfolio for the last few years. It’s pretty stout, uh, pretty fairly sizable. Right? And it, it’s an interesting play watching this for me because you, you see all these people kind of rotating out. And it, and it has to do with the, the, in my opinion, it has to do with the macroeconomics of things, right? Once, when you develop something and you get through, like in, into the teething pain cycle and all that kind of stuff. [00:20:00] The asset is not designed to have a 50, 70%, you know, margin, right? That’s not how wind works. Wind, wind operates of small margins and a lot of times in the early, a early stages of a project, you end up running into issues that eat those margins away. So when you’re talking about small margins, they’re six to 10% is what you kind of see. Um, and it’s pretty easy to eat away a 6% or a 10% margin. If you have some kind of serial defect you have to deal with, uh, or that, that the OEM’s fighting you on and, and you know, whether or not they take responsibility for it or you have to pay for it. A lot of times those processes can drag out for 12, 24, 36 months until you get made whole. So the early state, the first, you know, five years of a lot of these projects, five to eight years, are very expensive. And then once you get through kind of those things and the thing starts just chugging. Then you actually are starting to make money, and that’s where CIP P’S buying these assets is in that years after it’s gone through its teething pains and the company that developed it is like, man, [00:21:00] we need to get outta this thing. We’ve just been burning through cash. Then CI P’s kinda swooping in and grabbing ’em. And I think that this is another one of those plays. Allen Hall: So they’re gonna live with a smaller margin or they’re gonna operate the assets differently. Joel Saxum: The assets may be being operated better now than they were when they started, just in that, in, they exist, the starting company simply because the, some of the issues have been solved. They’ve been sorted through the things where you have early, early failures of bearings or some stuff like the early fairings of gearboxes. Those things have been sorted out, so then CIP swoops in and grabs them after the, the teething issues that have been gone. Allen Hall: Does evaluation change greatly because of the way horse did, manages their assets? Up or down? Joel Saxum: I would say generally it would go up. Yeah. I don’t necessarily think it’s dependent on o and m right now. I think it’s just a, it’s a time to buy cheap assets, right? Like you see, you see over here in the States, you see a lot of acquisitions going on. People divesting, they’re not divesting because they’re like, oh, we’re gonna make a ton of money off this. They may need the cash. They’re [00:22:00] divesting in, in, um, what’s the term, like under duress? A lot of them, it may not look like it from the outside in a big way, but that’s kind of what’s happening. Yolanda Padron: Yeah, I think it’ll be really interesting to see, uh, you know, there were a lot of layoffs in Ted and Europe as well, so seeing if maybe some of the people who can make those assets perform better. Come back just with a different t-shirt on. Allen Hall: As wind energy professionals staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it difficult. That’s why the Uptime podcast recommends PES Wind Magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit PES wind.com today in this quarter’s, PES Wind Magazine, which you can download a copy at PES [00:23:00] wind.com. There’s an article by Xan and they were, uh, contracted by Ocean Winds to evaluate the sea floor from. The sea floor at Moray West, which is way, way, way up north on the northern end of Scotland. A pretty rough area, Joel. And, but what ex Ocean did was they used unmanned survey equipment to monitor the ocean floor where the mono piles were gonna replace for the Moey West Wind Farm. That is a really difficult area to operate any sort of boat, but. Uh, the reason we’re doing this remotely unmanned was that it, it gave them sort of a, a less costly way to get high resolution images of the sea bottom. This is interesting because ocean wind was developing more a West apparently hadn’t used anything like this before, but the results, at [00:24:00] least from what I can see in PS win, look Joel Saxum: great. Yeah. This is a technology that’s been, um. Man, it’s been under development by a lot of companies in the last six, eight years. And now it’s starting to get to the point where it is, I mean, we’re, we’re TRL nine plus, right? There’s a lot of these solutions out there that are commercially ready. Xans been a top of this list since, man, since I was playing in that oil and gas world, to be honest with you. Like 20 18, 20 17, uh, really cool looking boats. That’s besides the point. Uh, but when they show up at trade shows and stuff with ’em, you’re like, ah, oh, that thing’s neat looking. Um, but it, it, it, it solves all kinds of problems, right? So when you go offshore and you’re just gonna do, say you’re just gonna go out there and do multibeam, so you’re just gonna do echo sound where you’re just looking to see depths and what’s on the sea floor. The minimum kind of vessel you need for that is 10 to 15 meters long. You need probably two to six people on that vessel. And that’s just, if you’re going out doing shift work, if you’re staying out there [00:25:00] and working 24 7, that vessel grows to. 30 meters instantly, right? So now you’re burning thousands and thousands of dollars in fuel. You’ve got food on board. You got all, it’s just a pain to put this vessel out there. You take all of those people out of harm’s way. You take all the costs away and they, and you put two of them, or one or two of them on shore in a facility, and then you put this three meter vessel out there that’s fully autonomous. No people, but collects the same style of data. I mean, it’s a no brainer, right? So you’re getting the same style of data and if, and the thing’s working 24 7, there is no need to have someone sleep. There’s a not a technician issue. There’s not, none of this is, is a problem anymore. Nobody’s getting seasick, right? So you’re sitting, you’re, you’re sitting back on shore, uh, going to work, uh, with no PPE on, um, having a, having a coffee from Starbucks down the street. And you’re running this thing 24 7, you’re collecting all [00:26:00] that fantastic data. Uh, it is just, like I said, it’s a no brainer. Now, now they’re getting to the stage where they’re putting ’em out as swarms, so you can cover whole fields. You’re doing live cable inspections. It’s, it’s pretty fantastic. So Exo ocean’s really making the next generation of robotics o offshore. Allen Hall: Yeah. And that’s gonna drive down the cost of energy. These kind of developments make huge strides in lowering costs, and this is why you need to read PES Win Magazine. So there’s a. Great articles all throughout the magazine. This quarter’s issue is, is Heavy with articles. Get your free copy@pswin.com today. As you know, in the wind industry, survival has always belonged to those who can keep up, uh, and Sorn freeze. Nuon knows better than most with his decades of experience at LM Wind Power and Uzon. He now chairs two Danish subcontractors, Polytech and Jupiter. Bach. Uh, his message to smaller suppliers in, in a recent article is. Pretty blunt. It [00:27:00]says the manufacturers, big OEMs want fewer partners and larger partners who can take on more responsibility. And if you cannot invest and grow with those manufacturers, you’ll be left behind the winners. It says it will be those who stay close to the turbine makers and adapt as the industry evolves. Joel, this is a really interesting discussion that, uh, Soren put out there. Obviously he’s invested in Polytech and Jupiter, Bach, uh, to great suppliers obviously, but small businesses are where a lot of the key technologies have been driven over the last five, six years. In wind, or more broadly the last 20 years in wind, a lot of great technology has come out of places that you wouldn’t have thought of. The OEMs have not been the bastion of innovation. I would say it [00:28:00] is necessary. You have both, wouldn’t you think? You have to have the small business innovation to prove out ideas and to show that they work, but you also have to have the large manufacturers to implement those ideas more broadly without either one of them, nobody wins. Joel Saxum: I fully agree and I think that one of the things that’s a little bit, uh, more of a granular comment there is. I think sometimes you need the OEMs and the other suppliers within the supply chain to open their doors a little bit, right? So this is, this is me wearing my, my small business, small innovative business, uh, in the wind industry cap. And that is, man, sometimes it is hard to get a conversation with a large subsupplier or with an OEM when you have something that can help them. And they just don’t want to communicate, don’t want to help. It’s just our way or the highway kind of thing. And if you watch, like we, so the podcast gives us an kind of, or not [00:29:00] gives us, it forces us to have kind of an op, an opportunity to look at, you know, what are the, what are the financial statements of some of these OEMs? What are the financial statements of some of their large sub-suppliers? You know? ’cause if they’re located in countries where that stuff is public knowledge, you can see how and what they’re doing. And if you, if you look at business in a general way where you rely on one customer or two customers to, for your whole business, you’re gonna be hurting. Um, especially in the way we look at things or what we’re seeing in the wind industry right now is if you’re, if you are a large company to say you do a hundred million in revenue and your customers are ge Vestas. Depending on what happens regulatory wise, in some random country somewhere your a hundred million dollars could shrink to 50 real quick. Um, so I don’t think that that’s a great way to do business. I think, you know, having a bit of diversification probably helps you a little bit. The OEMs Allen Hall: have a particular job to do. They need to deliver turbines onsite on time and create power for their customer. That’s our main [00:30:00] focus. They are a generator. Driven company, they make generators on steel towers with a propeller system basically. Right. Just simplify it way, way down. There’s not a lot of technology in that itself. Obviously there’s control systems, obviously there’s electronics involved, but the concept from this basic fundamentals is not difficult to to grasp. The difficulty is in execution. Showing that that product can last for 20 years, and that product can last in different environments. Australia, United States, up in Scandinavia, Canada, way down south and Brazil. There’s some really rough environments there and the OEMs are relying upon in industry, uh, guidance from like the IECs and then the dvs, uh, uls Tube. Nord. Uh. Bvs where they’re trying to make these turbines comply to a [00:31:00] set of essentially regulations, which just simplify it. You can do that. But as we have seen historically in the wind industry, if you make a turbine that just meets those requirements, you do not necessarily have a successful product. You have a product that is marginal, and as Yolanda has pointed out to me numerous times, there’s a lot of real issues in wind turbines. That probably could have been solved five years ago by small mobile companies with outside of the box ideas that could have given the OEMs a huge advantage, especially in blades. Yolanda Padron: Yeah, and I think a lot of these companies are, they’re looking at things from a different point of view, right? They’re smaller companies. You have people who could know the product, they know the real issue that’s going on on the ground. They know. Kind of what they need to do, what the next step is to move forward in their solution.[00:32:00] Right? But it’s not like it’s a, a company where you need 30 people to sign off before you can go onto the next stage, and then you need 30 more people to sign off before you can get funding to do something else. And so yes, the OEMs are doing a good job in their scope. If they’re meeting their scope, they are doing a good job. You know, if I, if I take like bread and cheese, then yes, I have a sandwich, right? Like, it might not be the best sandwich in the world, but I have a sandwich. So like, they’re making the sandwich and that’s great. But if you want something to, to actually work and to last and to, to give everybody else the, the idea that. You know, wind is profitable and we can all benefit from it. You have to get all those different layers in there, right? You have to make [00:33:00] sure that you know, if you have a big lightning issue, then you get the right people in the room to get that retrofit in there to solve your lightning issue. If you have a big leading edge erosion issue, then you get those right people in the room to solve everything, and it’s not always going to be a one size fits all. Right, but you do need those smaller companies to, to be in the room with you. Joel Saxum: I’m a hundred percent agreeing with you, Yolanda, and I think that this is the issue here is that at some level then an OEM, an OEM engineering head would have to admit that they’re not the end all be all, and that they may have got a couple of things wrong. And what, what I would love to see and who, and maybe maybe ask you this question, who of the major four Western OEMs. Do you think would be open to like an industry advisory board? Nordex, you think it’s Nordex? I think Yolanda Padron: that’s the closest one so far that we’ve seen. Right? Joel Saxum: Yeah. I, I, I agree with you, and I’m saying that because I don’t think any of the other ones would ever admit that they have an [00:34:00] issue, right? They have attorneys and they have problems, Allen Hall: so they really can’t, but I, I think internally they know that they haven’t optimized their production, they haven’t optimized their performance out in the field. They’re trying to improve availability, that’s for sure. Estes has spent a great deal of time over the last year or two improving availability so that the money is being spent. The question is, do they have all the right answers or the overspending to get to the availability that they want to deliver to their customers? That’s a great question because I do think that we we’re just in Scotland and there’s a number of technology companies in the UK that I think, wow, they should be implementing some of these. Ideas and these products that have been proven, especially the ones that have been out for a couple of years, they should be implemented tomorrow, but they’re not yet because they can’t get through the door of an OEM because the OEM doesn’t want to hear it. Joel Saxum: Yeah, agreed. Agreed. Right. Well, well, like I, the, the, the example that keeps popping into my mind is Pete Andrews and the team over [00:35:00] at Echo Bolt, simply because they have a solution that works. It’s simple. They’ve done the legwork to make sure that this thing can be optimized and utilized by technicians in the field around the world. But they, it just like, they haven’t gotten the buy-in from, from whoever, uh, that it seems to be, you know, there’s a hurdle here. Uh, and that hurdle may be the Atlantic Ocean. I don’t know. Uh, but I would love to see, I would love to see their, uh, solution for bolted connections, uh, and monitoring bolted connections kicked around the world because I think you could save. Uh, the wind industry a ton, a ton, a ton of money. And that is an example of a small business full of subject matter experts that made a solution that can solve a problem, whether you’re an OEM or you’re an operator or whatever. There’s there that’s there, utilize them, right? Those are the kind of things that we need in this industry. Yolanda Padron: And it’s also those smaller companies too that will look at your feedback and then they’ll say, oh. Okay, do I need to adjust here? [00:36:00] Did I not focus on this one parameter that your specific site has? Right. And you don’t see that from the OEMs ’cause they have so, uh, they have so many problems that they’re trying to tackle at once that it gets really difficult to, not just to hone in on one, but to, to tell everybody, oh, I, I have this perfect solution for everything. Here you go. Allen Hall: Right. I think there’s an internal conflict in the engineering departments and manufacturing departments of any OEM, regardless if it’s in wind or in any other industry, is that they have a system to make this product and they’re pretty confident in it, otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it. They don’t want to hear outside noise is I, I would describe it as noise. Like, uh, if you have a great solution that would help out their manufacturing process. But I work here, I know how, I know the ins and outs that that new idea by a small company won’t work here. Those [00:37:00] barriers have to be knocked down internally in the OEMs. The OEM management should be going through and saying, Hey, look, if I find me the manager of this operation, if I find a company that could help us and save us money, and you’re being a roadblock, guess what? See ya. Hit the road because there is no way you can let those opportunities pass you by. In today’s marketplace, you need to be grabbing hold of every opportunity to lower your cost, to improve your product availability, to improve your relationship with your customers. How do you do that? Quickly, you look at the companies that are providing solutions and you grab them, grab them, and hold on for your life and listen to what they have to say because they have probably done more research into your product than your people have. That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. If you [00:38:00] found value in today’s discussion, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show and we’ll catch you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

Have you ever been on a date with an English speaker and found yourself searching for the right words to express your feelings? Or perhaps you've scrolled through relationship advice online and thought, 'I wish I could understand this better'? If so, you're not alone, and you're in the right place.Free Transcript: https://adeptenglish.com/lessons/english-speaking-practice-top-relationship-questions-2025/In today's subscription podcast, we'll dive into the language of love and relationships. We'll pick up essential phrases like 'honeymoon phase' and 'monogamy', and we'll unravel the nuances of terms like 'exclusive', 'open relationship', and 'toxic'. And here's the thing: listening https://adeptenglish.com/english/listening/ to native speakers discuss these topics is a brilliant way to boost your fluency!No more skipping ads! Subscribe and enjoy 8 new, ad-free English lessons every month. You can listen on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It is easy to sign up and start learning. Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/adeptenglish/subscribe Apple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/learn-english-through-listening/id1134891957FAQ: https://adeptenglish.com/faq/subscription-faq/With insights from my background as a therapist, we'll not only learn https://adeptenglish.com/company/learning-system/ the vocabulary but also explore the concepts behind them. We'll navigate the early stages of romance, delve into the complexities of commitment, and unpack what makes a relationship toxic, or rather unhealthy, all while absorbing sophisticated language that native speakers use every day. (Fascinating stuff, by the way.)So press play, and let's explore the language of love together while taking your English to the next level.#ESLPodcast #PsychologyInEnglish #EnglishFluency #EmotionalLanguage #LearnEnglish #B2English #C1Vocabulary #RelationshipsInEnglish

We dive into courageous reinvention with Dr. Kari Borgmann, tracing how a lifetime in accounting turned into a trilogy about love, loss, and second chances. Craft, fear, and practical writing habits meet hope, research, and a surprising new ghost romance set in Ireland.• moving from accounting career to authorship• channeling fear and grief into story• reinvention in midlife and identity shifts• writing process between plotting and discovery• building a trilogy with a planned ending• editing for clarity, depth and sensory detail• the power of support in long marriages• new project: Irish ghost mystery romance• where to buy books and upcoming eventsPlease go give those books a five-star review when you read them! https://amzn.to/4rTeTW3Support the showElsa's AMAZON STORE Elsa's FAITH & FREEDOM MERCH STORE Elsa's BOOKSElsa Kurt: You may know her for her uncanny, viral Kamala Harris impressions & conservative comedy skits, but she's also a lifelong Patriot & longtime Police Wife. She has channeled her fierce love and passion for God, family, country, and those who serve as the creator, Executive Producer & Host of the Elsa Kurt Show with Clay Novak. Her show discusses today's topics & news from a middle class/blue collar family & conservative perspective. The vocal LEOW's career began as a multi-genre author who has penned over 25 books, including twelve contemporary women's novels. Clay Novak: Clay Novak was commissioned in 1995 as a Second Lieutenant of Infantry and served as an officer for twenty four years in Mechanized Infantry, Airborne Infantry, and Cavalry units . He retired as a Lieutenant Colonel in 2019. Clay is a graduate of the U.S. Army Ranger School and is a Master Rated Parachutist, serving for more th...

Exploring innovation where education meets entrepreneurship. About Durga Suresh-Menon Durga Suresh-Menon, Ph.D., is Head of School at New England Innovation Academy. An energizing, dynamic and growth-minded educator with a record of inclusive leadership and passionate storytelling, Dr. Suresh-Menon joins NEIA with over two decades of collaborative higher-education experience, academic program development and a unique understanding of what makes students successful. She has a rich background in higher education, leadership, curriculum development, and academic excellence. Before joining NEIA, she served as Dean of the School of Computing and Data Science and Dean of Graduate Education at Wentworth Institute of Technology, as well as an Associate Professor, where she led efforts to implement progressive learning strategies and interdisciplinary curriculum that promoted innovation and global awareness. She is recognized for her work fostering a culture of growth, development and innovation, ensuring that a STEAM curriculum remains aligned with the ever-evolving technological landscape and industry demands. Fluent in multiple languages, Dr. Suresh-Menon loves to connect with tech-minded students and parents from all backgrounds, and brings a global perspective and collaborative spirit to NEIA's academic community. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hello.neia/ Twitter: https://x.com/helloneia Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HelloNEIA/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/durga-suresh-menon/ About John Camp (he goes by Camp) Camp has been teaching in independent schools for over 25 years. His experience includes English and writing classes as well as interdisciplinary courses such as “The Art and Physics of Time Travel.” At St. Mark's School, which bestowed him with The Trustees Chair and the Kidder Faculty Prize, Camp served as the Director of Experiential Learning and Associate Director of The Center of Innovation in Teaching and Learning. A pair of his pedagogical mantras include “I aim to teach what cannot be Googled” and “I expect you to work hard, so I work hard.” He has a B.A. English/Creative Writing from Middlebury College and M.A.L.S. from Dartmouth College. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hello.neia/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HelloNEIA/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/campsm/ Resources https://neiacademy.org/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-england-innovation-academy/  John Mikton on Social Media LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmikton/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/jmikton Web: beyonddigital.org Dan Taylor on social media: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/appsevents  Twitter: https://twitter.com/appdkt  Web: www.appsevents.com Listen on: iTunes / Podbean / Stitcher / Spotify / YouTube Would you like to have a free 1 month trial of the new Google Workspace Plus (formerly G Suite Enterprise for Education)? Just fill out this form and we'll get you set up bit.ly/GSEFE-Trial

Bobby kicks things off with a hot take on Michigan head coach Sherrone Moore getting fired and his theory on the reason he was caught. Todd McShay then jumps on to break down next year’s quarterback class and who he believes will ultimately go No. 1 in the NFL Draft. Plus, the guys play a “Top 25 Most Googled Celebs of 2025” game that turns into a mix of bad guesses, surprise hits, and a few names nobody saw coming. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook App today: https://dkng.co/bobbysports If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/MI/NJ/PA/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/NH), 888-789-7777/visit http://ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-877-770-STOP (7867) (LA), 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), visit OPGR.org (OR), call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA). 21+ (18+ WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/LA/MI/NJ/ NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. N/A in NH/OR/ON. New customers only. Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min $5 wager. $200 issued as eight (8) $25 free bets. Ends 9/19/22. See http://draftkings.com/sportsbook for details. Follow the Show: @25WhistlesSports Follow the Crew: @MrBobbyBones @ProducerEddie @KickoffKevin @MikeDeestro @BrandonRayMusicSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Have you ever tried to travel with food sensitivities, and it was so hard to eat within your guidelines that you simply gave up (or just couldn't find a way to do it)? For me, I'm gluten free, dairy free, and grain free — or I know that one wrong restaurant choice means bloating, constipation, acid reflux, or feeling totally wrecked for the next 2-7 days. Suddenly a trip that's supposed to be fun becomes a game of, “What can I actually eat?” If you've ever Googled things like gluten free travel tips, dairy free travel tips, healthy travel snacks, traveling with food restrictions, or even how to avoid bloating while traveling — this episode is for you. Traveling with food sensitivities does not have to be stressful. You don't need to simply eat less and feel hungry all the time. And you absolutely do not need to spend your whole vacation worrying about where the next meal is coming from. Today, I'm sharing my 5 best tips for traveling with food sensitivities — the exact strategies I use as someone who eats gluten free, dairy free, mostly grain free, AND still wants to enjoy good food, feel amazing, and not get stuck with bloating or symptoms the whole trip. We're going to talk:What foods to pack (and why your purse is basically your emergency blood-sugar kit)How to pick restaurants when you're gluten free, dairy free, or avoiding sauces, breading, or mystery oilsWhich cuisines are secretly the easiest to eat out with food sensitivities — and which ones will sabotage you fastHow to build simple, safe travel meals so you feel good the whole tripAnd how to manage food sensitivities on vacation without being the “difficult” one in the group. If you've ever felt overwhelmed by eating out, nervous about traveling with food allergies, or tired of coming home from a trip feeling heavy, bloated, or off — this episode is for you. TIMESTAMPS:00:00 - Introduction: Traveling with Food Sensitivities 01:03 - Top 5 Tips for Traveling with Food Sensitivities 02:08 - Welcome to the Better Belly Podcast 03:16 - Personal Strategies for Low-Anxiety Travel 05:11 - Tip 1: Bring Your Own Food 08:31 - Tip 2: Pack Food in Small Containers 11:48 - Tip 3: Choose the Right Restaurants 18:25 - Tip 4: How to Scan Menus 22:05 - Tip 5: Staying at Airbnbs or Other Homes 32:29 - Conclusion: Taking Ownership of Your Health EPISODES MENTIONED:232// Is Sodium Deficiency Causing Your Bloating and Constipation? HEAL YOUR GUT TODAY!Option #1)

Bobby kicks things off with a hot take on Michigan head coach Sherrone Moore getting fired and his theory on the reason he was caught. Todd McShay then jumps on to break down next year’s quarterback class and who he believes will ultimately go No. 1 in the NFL Draft. Plus, the guys play a “Top 25 Most Googled Celebs of 2025” game that turns into a mix of bad guesses, surprise hits, and a few names nobody saw coming. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook App today: https://dkng.co/bobbysports If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/MI/NJ/PA/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/NH), 888-789-7777/visit http://ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-877-770-STOP (7867) (LA), 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), visit OPGR.org (OR), call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA). 21+ (18+ WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/LA/MI/NJ/ NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. N/A in NH/OR/ON. New customers only. Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min $5 wager. $200 issued as eight (8) $25 free bets. Ends 9/19/22. See http://draftkings.com/sportsbook for details. Follow the Show: @25WhistlesSports Follow the Crew: @MrBobbyBones @ProducerEddie @KickoffKevin @MikeDeestro @BrandonRayMusicSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“Why are people obsessed with serial killers—and what does that say about us?” That's just one of the thought-provoking questions Ben Rogers, Jeff “Skin” Wade, Kevin “KT” Turner, and Krystina Ray tackle in this laugh-out-loud episode of The Ben and Skin Show.The crew dives into Wikipedia's Top 20 Most-Read Articles of 2025, and the list is as bizarre as it is fascinating. From MrBeast's internet dominance to Ed Gein's chilling Netflix resurgence, and even a surprise entry for the United States (yes, people Googled that), the conversation spirals into hilarious tangents about pop culture, movies, and why everyone suddenly cares about Thunderbolts and Superman.

Do You Have A Hormone Imbalance? Take my FREE Hormone Symptom Profile Assessment: https://bit.ly/takemyhormonequiz When did weight loss become a full-time job?!!! Here's what no one ever bothered to tell you about weight loss and perimenopause: Gaining weight in midlife isn't just about calories. It's driven by multiple hormonal and biological shifts that change how our bodies store fat, use fuel, and slow down our metabolism. In today's episode, I'm breaking down the four biggest metabolism mistakes you're probably making in perimenopause—and how to start to fix them. In this episode, I‘ll address your most commonly Googled questions, including: ✅ Why am I gaining weight even though I haven't changed anything? ✅ Is weight gain during perimenopause hormonal? ✅ Why is it harder to lose weight after 40? ✅ I'm eating less—so why am I still gaining weight? ✅ Why am I not losing weight with intermittent fasting? ✅ How does muscle loss affect metabolism in women? ✅ How often should women over 40 eat to lose weight? ✅ What's the best exercise for weight loss after 40? ✅ I'm eating more protein—so why is my metabolism still slow? If your metabolism feels slower than your family volunteering to clean the dishes after Christmas dinner, this episode's for you. — FREE RESOURCES: Do You Have A Hormone Imbalance? Take my FREE Hormone Symptom Profile Assessment: https://bit.ly/takemyhormonequiz Become a Podcast Insider + Subscribe to The Hot Flash–Hormone hacks, recipes, and lifestyle tips I don't share anywhere else!: https://areyoutheremidlife.com/ Tired of Tossing and Turning? Grab my FREE “Better Sleep After 40” Supplement Cheat Sheet: https://monicalanetopete.kit.com/sleepbetter — *Disclaimer: Information provided in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. The information is not intended or implied to supplement or replace professional medical treatment, advice, and/or diagnosis. I share the strategies that have worked for me, and you are advised to do your own research and speak to your medical provider for care.

This week on The Nourished CEO, I'm breaking down the 10 major trends that will define the online health and wellness industry in 2026. You've probably heard people say the industry is shifting, but almost no one is explaining what that actually means for you as a practitioner, coach, or expert. Today, I'm unpacking exactly what's changing, why it matters, and how to adapt in a way that makes your business feel clearer, simpler, and more profitable. If you've been feeling like old strategies aren't working anymore, or you're noticing that clients are becoming more overwhelmed and more selective, you're not imagining it. These trends are already unfolding, and the entrepreneurs who learn to simplify, personalize, and focus on real transformation are the ones who will thrive in 2026. Timeline Summary [00:00] – Why 2026 will look different for online wellness entrepreneurs and why old strategies are losing effectiveness. [03:18] – Trend #1: The Great Opt Out of traditional health insurance and what the shift to cash pay and concierge models means for your business. [10:56] – Trend #2: Why session-by-session healthcare is fading and transformation-based programs are gaining momentum. [15:49] – Trend #3: Clients want less information and more implementation. How to create a minimum viable offer that gets results without overloading people. [20:15] – Trend #4: The breakdown of trust in healthcare and how listening and personalization set you apart. [25:45] – Trend #5: On-demand expert access. Why asynchronous support is becoming more valuable than more calls. [29:52] – Trend #6: Long-form content is making a comeback and why serious buyers are moving away from short-form social media. [35:36] – Trend #7: The "trust recession." Why buyers are more discerning and how to communicate what truly makes your approach different. [39:52] – Trend #8: How I use AI ethically to organize my thoughts and streamline communication without outsourcing my voice. [45:08] – Trend #9: Hyper specificity and why niching is essential for marketing, messaging, and paid ads in 2026. [48:35] – Trend #10: Simplicity and elegant systems. Why reducing complexity is the only way to stay profitable without burning out. Top 5 Quotes From This Episode "People are exhausted by the noise. They're done with cookie-cutter protocols and they're not paying premium prices for information they could have just Googled." "If you're still using the same strategies that worked even two or three years ago, you're going to feel like you're running uphill in the wrong direction." "Your clients want the best possible results with the least amount of extra work, and if your offer feels like a second full-time job, they're out." "With AI everywhere, anyone can look like an expert. Buyers want to know why they should trust you and what makes your approach different." "Simplicity isn't optional anymore. It is the only way your business will stay profitable without draining your life." Links & Resources Connect with me on Instagram: @lauraschoenfeldrd Apply for the Nourished Business Accelerator: https://www.lauraschoenfeld.com/nba-apply Interested in working together 1:1? DM me "PRIVATE" on Instagram to learn more If you enjoyed this episode or it helped you get clearer about your strategy for 2026, it would mean so much if you rated, followed, reviewed, or shared the podcast. Your support helps more health and wellness entrepreneurs build aligned, ethical, profitable businesses that support the life they actually want to live.

While everyone else thinks Indiana QB Fernando Mendoza's viral interview was cringe, Bobby is somehow an even bigger fan of him and explains what it is about that moment that stuck with him. Things get a little dicey when Eddie admits he’s keeping a secret from his wife—and tries to justify why he hasn’t told her yet. Then the guys play a game trying to guess the most Googled athletes of 2025… and it does not go well. Guesses are all over the place; logic flies out the window, and somehow, they still feel confident until the real answers show up. It’s loose, honest, and one of those episodes where you really hear how they think when nothing’s scripted. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook App today: https://dkng.co/bobbysports If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/MI/NJ/PA/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/NH), 888-789-7777/visit http://ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-877-770-STOP (7867) (LA), 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), visit OPGR.org (OR), call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA). 21+ (18+ WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/LA/MI/NJ/ NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. N/A in NH/OR/ON. New customers only. Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min $5 wager. $200 issued as eight (8) $25 free bets. Ends 9/19/22. See http://draftkings.com/sportsbook for details. Follow the Show: @25WhistlesSports Follow the Crew: @MrBobbyBones @ProducerEddie @KickoffKevin @MikeDeestro @BrandonRayMusicSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Search it up! The answer is at your fingertips. Here's what everyone wanted to know about this year - from political scandal to the creamiest avocados.

The Most Googled Things Of 2025.

This week on Two Parents & A Podcast, we're joined by Emily Oster — bestselling author, economist, and the data-driven voice behind ParentData.org— to separate pregnancy facts from fear-based fiction. From sushi and soft cheese to caffeine, deli meat, and yes — even a little wine — Emily breaks down what's actually backed by research vs. what's just outdated “pregnancy police” rules we've all heard. We also get into nausea myths, Ozempic, Botox, NIPT false positives, elective inductions, epidurals, and the real risks people should pay attention to. If you've ever felt overwhelmed by conflicting pregnancy advice, Googled something you immediately regretted, or wondered what really matters for a healthy pregnancy — this one's going to bring so much relief (and maybe give you permission to enjoy that Diet Coke again!!!). Timestamps:  00:00:00 Welcome back to Two Parents & A Podcast! 00:00:44 Introduction to Emily Oster 00:03:25 How did an economist become one of the most trusted voices in pregnancy? 00:07:07 What's the #1 pregnancy rule that doesn't make sense once you look at the research? 00:10:16 How much of the advice we hear is truly backed by research vs. just old-school caution? 00:11:02 Is there any truth to “more nausea = healthier pregnancy”? 00:15:50 What's the real risk with deli meat and listeria today? 00:19:02 Can pregnant women safely eat sushi? 00:24:40 Soft cheeses & runny eggs 00:25:12 How much caffeine is safe during pregnancy? 00:26:54 Can you drink alcohol during pregnancy? 00:28:30 Can you smoke, vape, or eat gummies during pregnancy? 00:30:18 Can you take Ozempic, get Botox, or use retinol during pregnancy? 00:33:48 What is the #1 thing to avoid during pregnancy? 00:35:07  How accurate is NIPT really? (False positives explained) 00:38:45  Elective inductions at 39 weeks — what does data say? 00:45:09 Do epidurals affect labor progression? 00:45:40 Vitamin K shot & newborn eye ointment — what parents need to know 00:46:30 Should women eat their placenta? 00:49:16 Rapid-fire: Diet Coke, spicy food, stress, flying & prenatals 00:51:45 What pregnancy myth do you wish would disappear forever? 00:52:34 Thank you for listening!  #twoparentsandapod --------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you to our sponsors this week: *Manukora: Get up to 31% off plus $25 in free gifts with the Starter Kit at https://www.manukora.com/TWOPARENTS. *Magnetic Me: New customers get 15% off at https://www.magneticme.com with code TWOPARENTS. *SKIMS: Shop Alex's favorite pajamas at https://www.skims.com/TWOPARENTS. #skimspartner *Aura Frames: $35 off with code TWOPARENTS — shop perfect holiday gifts at https://on.auraframes.com/TWOPARENTS. *Kachava: Get 15% off your next order at https://www.kachava.com with code TWOPARENTS. --------------------------------------------------------------- Listen to the pod on YouTube/Spotify/Apple: https://www.youtube.com/@twoparentsandapod https://open.spotify.com/show/7BxuZnHmNzOX9MdnzyU4bD?si=5e715ebaf9014fac https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/two-parents-a-podcast/id1737442386 --------------------------------------------------------------- Follow Two Parents & A Podcast: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/twoparentsandapod TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@twoparentsandapod Follow Alex Bennett: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/justalexbennett TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@justalexbennett Follow Harrison Fugman: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/harrisonfugman TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@harrisonfugman Find our guest: Website | https://parentdata.org/ Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/profemilyoster TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@profemilyoster --------------------------------------------------------------- Powered by: Just Media House – https://www.justmediahouse.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Roz is fired up that no one noticed his fresh haircut, Maurie calls Alaskans living in weeks of darkness, and the team dives into the five most Googled relationship questions. Plus, Mocha admits his candy obsession, Jag tops Spotify Wrapped with 149,000 minutes of listening, and we hear wild stories from VIP club nights to a nurse framing her late husband's tattoo. Add in interviews with the cast of Canada Shore and George Springer, and this episode is packed with laughs, surprises, and unforgettable moments!

While everyone else thinks Indiana QB Fernando Mendoza's viral interview was cringe, Bobby is somehow an even bigger fan of him and explains what it is about that moment that stuck with him. Things get a little dicey when Eddie admits he’s keeping a secret from his wife—and tries to justify why he hasn’t told her yet. Then the guys play a game trying to guess the most Googled athletes of 2025… and it does not go well. Guesses are all over the place; logic flies out the window, and somehow, they still feel confident until the real answers show up. It’s loose, honest, and one of those episodes where you really hear how they think when nothing’s scripted. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook App today: https://dkng.co/bobbysports If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/MI/NJ/PA/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/NH), 888-789-7777/visit http://ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-877-770-STOP (7867) (LA), 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), visit OPGR.org (OR), call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA). 21+ (18+ WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/LA/MI/NJ/ NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. N/A in NH/OR/ON. New customers only. Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min $5 wager. $200 issued as eight (8) $25 free bets. Ends 9/19/22. See http://draftkings.com/sportsbook for details. Follow the Show: @25WhistlesSports Follow the Crew: @MrBobbyBones @ProducerEddie @KickoffKevin @MikeDeestro @BrandonRayMusicSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week on The Pete the Planner Show, we tackle a classic early-retirement temptation: what happens when you want out of the workforce before 59½, but almost all your money is locked inside qualified retirement accounts? A listener from Dayton writes in with solid savings, a paid-off home, and a serious case of “I can't do this job anymore.” The problem? He wants $80,000 a year in retirement income, but he's only 54 — and bridging those five and a half years before penalty-free withdrawals is tougher than people think. We break down his real numbers, explore strategies like 72(t) distributions and Roth conversion ladders, and explain why early retirement is often less about “Can I quit?” and more about “Can I cash-flow the gap years without blowing up my future?” If you've ever dreamed of early retirement (or Googled ‘how bad is the 10% penalty really?'), this episode is for you.

Thursday – We celebrate Jim's birthday! We review the most Googled list of 2025. Rauce Thoughts on interesting comedy gigs. We talk Christmas movies and winning the lottery. Date Night Guide with Dani Meyering with date night ideas that are mostly holiday themed. Plus, JCS News, the Froggers Football Forecast, JCS Trivia & You Heard it Here First. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Thursday – We celebrate Jim's birthday! We review the most Googled list of 2025. Rauce Thoughts on interesting comedy gigs. We talk Christmas movies and winning the lottery. Date Night Guide with Dani Meyering with date night ideas that are mostly holiday themed. Plus, JCS News, the Froggers Football Forecast, JCS Trivia & You Heard it Here First.

Jonathan Peterlin and Nick Pedone talk about how Shedeur Sanders was the most Googled celebrity of 2025.

#899. Kaitlyn is joined in-studio by her longtime friend (and former fertility nurse!) Whitney Bischoff Angel, fresh off a girls' weekend, to talk all things fertility and women's health. From egg freezing and endometriosis to postpartum, loss, and the emotional side of every phase—nothing is off the table.Whitney shares insights from nearly 20 years in fertility nursing, why she chose not to pursue the influencer path, and she opens up about her not-so-great experience on The Bachelor and how it shaped the life she has now. They also dig into the questions so many women have but rarely get clear answers to: – What's the first step if you're curious about fertility support? – Do SSRIs or mental health meds impact pregnancy? – When should you consider freezing your eggs? – Should you freeze them even if you're not sure you want kids? – What about PCOS, male factor infertility, endometriosis, or surrogacy?And of course, some surprise guest walk-ins lead to an unexpected Titanic conspiracy chat—because why not?It's real, informative, and full of the conversations women wish they heard more often. Tune in!If you're LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE!Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these deals!Booking.com: Head over to booking.com and start your listing today! Get Seen. Get Booked on Booking.com!Better Help: OTV listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com/VINE.Bombas: Head over to Bombas.com/vine and use code vine for 20% off your first purchase.The Real Real: Get $25 off your first purchase when you go to TheRealReal.com/vineProgressive: Visit Progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance!Wayfair: Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. Wayfair. Every style. Every home.EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: (18:10) – Why Whitney didn't become an influencer and chose to focus on her career in fertility.(32:40) – When to consider freezing your eggs, the ideal age range, and why earlier is better.(38:38) – Eggs vs. embryos: How to maintain autonomy over your fertility choices.(43:20 ) – Tips for TTC (trying to conceive) with PCOS, male factor infertility, and tracking cycles effectively.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Elaine Burke, Host of the "For Tech's Sake" podcast, discusses Spotify Unwrapped and Google's most searched for 2025 in Ireland.

Word(s) of the Year…  Bed Rotting and Rat People…  Wikipedia top five stories…  Googled relationship questions answered…  Top movies from last weekend…  Avatar Fire and Ash may be the last?...  Katy and Justin holiday planning…  New Headline fresh from the wire...  Email: Chewingthefat@theblaze.com   www.blazetv.com/jeffy$20 off annual plan right now ( limited time )   Who Died Today: Fuzzy Zoeller 74 / Dmitry Nuyanzin 30 /Gramma the Galapagos Tortoise 141-142?…   Joke of The Day… Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on Nacho Fitness Coach, we're talking about weighted vests — or more accurately, the internet's obsession with convincing everyone they need one. We break down what these things actually do, why they've suddenly become the new personality trait on TikTok, and whether strapping 20 extra pounds to your body is helping you reach your goals… or just helping influencers sell gear.Sara brings the facts (and a rant, obviously), explaining why running already gives your joints 12–15 times your bodyweight and maybe—just maybe—you don't need to toss a vest on top of that. Meanwhile, Caleigh discovers that the pockets are perfect for snacks, which is honestly the strongest argument for buying one.We dig into marketing vs. reality, strength training vs. shortcuts, and why people will do absolutely anything except lift heavy weights. If you've ever Googled “weighted vest benefits” after seeing a hot girl jog with one, this episode is for you.Moral of the story? If TikTok told you to do it… maybe double-check with two tired moms and a microphone first.Connect with us on social media!Instagram | TikTok | Threads | Youtube | Facebook | X (Twitter) | WebsiteThis podcast offers health, fitness, and nutritional information and is designed for educational and entertainment purposes only. You should not rely on this information as a substitute for, nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your health, you should always consult with a physician or other healthcare professional. Do not disregard, avoid, or delay obtaining medical or health-related advice from your healthcare professional because of something you may have heard on this podcast. The use of any information provided by Nacho Fitness Coach podcast is solely at your own risk.

Do You Have A Hormone Imbalance? Take my FREE Hormone Symptom Profile Assessment: https://bit.ly/takemyhormonequiz Most midlife women think carbs are the enemy… but the real problem isn't the carbs—it's protein (or a lack of it.) Because once we hit our 40s, those same bagels and banana bread we inhaled in our 20s suddenly hit our metabolism a lot harder once our hormones start to shift. In today's episode, I'm breaking down the three simple protein-timing rules that stabilize blood sugar, support your hormones, and get your metabolism working for you again—even in a carb-heavy season. In this episode, I‘ll address your most commonly Googled questions, including: ✅ Why does my metabolism seem slower in my 40s? ✅ Do carbs slow metabolism? ✅ Why does the scale jump whenever I eat carbs? ✅ Why do I crave carbs so much in perimenopause? ✅ How do I stabilize my blood sugar in perimenopause without giving up carbs? ✅ Why do I crash every afternoon in perimenopause — even when I eat breakfast? ✅ How much protein do midlife women actually need to lose weight? If every holiday carb you consume seems to go straight to your stomach, this episode's for you. — FREE RESOURCES: Do You Have A Hormone Imbalance? Take my FREE Hormone Symptom Profile Assessment: https://bit.ly/takemyhormonequiz Become a Podcast Insider + Subscribe to The Hot Flash–Hormone hacks, recipes, and lifestyle tips I don't share anywhere else!: https://areyoutheremidlife.com/ Tired of Tossing and Turning? Grab my FREE “Better Sleep After 40” Supplement Cheat Sheet: https://monicalanetopete.kit.com/sleepbetter — *Disclaimer: Information provided in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. The information is not intended or implied to supplement or replace professional medical treatment, advice, and/or diagnosis. I share the strategies that have worked for me, and you are advised to do your own research and speak to your medical provider for care.

Lesley Logan welcomes back personal coach and former NASA engineer John Mollura for a powerful conversation on confidence, fear, and self-trust. Together they break down why so many high achievers feel stuck—and how it's not about time management but the fear hiding underneath. John shares how to quiet your inner critic, lean into a curious 'seeker mindset,' and rebuild trust in yourself one small promise at a time.  If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:How fear of failure kept John from setting goals or making plans.The “two-by-four” life moments that forced him to realign his purpose.Why photography revealed a deeper coaching calling after years in corporate life.Why true confidence begins with keeping the promises you make to yourself.Why fear drives the “big three” — perfectionism, procrastination, and overthinking.Episode References/Links:John Mollura's Website - https://www.johnmollura.comJohn Mollura's Free Resources - https://www.johnmollura.com/freestuffEpisode 119: John Mollura - https://beitpod.com/ep119The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks - https://a.co/d/0DUsv01AmeriCorps – https://americorps.govBrand Builders Group – https://brandbuildersgroup.comGuest Bio:John Mollura (pronounced muh-LAURA) is a personal coach and speaker who knows what it's like to feel stuck—despite a resume that says otherwise. For fifteen years he led test operations for NASA missions as a literal rocket scientist before becoming a multi-award-winning photographer, with work featured by National Geographic. But behind the achievements and titles, he battled self-doubt, perfectionism, and the fear of taking the next step. John didn't just break free—he built a framework for lasting change. Through a powerful blend of science, storytelling, and strategy, he doesn't just inspire—he equips people with the tools to take action, build confidence, and create real momentum. Get ready to move from hesitation to action, from fear to confidence, and from stuck to unstoppable. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:John Mollura 0:00  The root of people's lack of confidence is they're not showing up for themselves. Because here's what happens, is we're lying to ourselves. We say I'm going to wake up and go to the gym, or this is the year I'm going to start eating healthier, or I'm going to floss my teeth every night. Like, pick a commitment you've made to yourself. If we continually break these commitments time and time again, well, guess what? Our brain recognizes I can't trust me.Lesley Logan 0:28  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. Lesley Logan 1:10  Hi, Be It babe. How are you? Oh my gosh. Okay. We have a blast from the past, an amazing person, that every time I hear him speak, I'm just like, yes, yes that, yes this, yes, that, oh, say that one more time. So you guys are gonna want to repeat this. This is an episode on perfectionism, procrastination, overthinking, confidence, fear. It's really good stuff. And our guest is John Mollura, and I'm really, really excited. And if you haven't heard from him on episode 120 I highly recommend, after you listen to this one, go listen to that one, and just see how far people come in such a short period of time, we think three years is a long time, and it's like, you know, like, it isn't, it happens quite quickly. So anyways, you're amazing. John's amazing. This episode is for you. Here you go. Lesley Logan 1:57  Be It, babe. We have a blast from the past, and like the past, I cannot believe that it's I can't believe how long this podcast has been on, because it feels like I just got started, and I'm like, still getting my groove, but John Mollura is our guest today. He was from Episode 120, oh my God, okay. John Mollura, in case people haven't been with us since Episode 120, can you remind them? John Mollura 2:16  And you should go back and listen to all those if you have not.Lesley Logan 2:21  Well, they're gonna have to. Because I think we're gonna share, what I'm excited about is to share a journey. Like, whenever I have a guest back on, it's like, we get to, like, see where you are, and people get to go, oh, wow, behind like, you don't see behind the scenes very much, and you don't like, we just think, like, things just happen, and the light switch just turns on, and everything works out. So tell everyone who you are and what you're rocking at now.John Mollura 2:45  Hey, everybody. So second time guest here on the Be It Pod with my good friend, Lesley. And fun fact is I actually live right up the road from her hubby's parents in the first State of Delaware. Lesley Logan 2:58  It's really hilarious. John Mollura 2:59  Right? Small world, small world. So what I am up to? I am a personal coach, and no one is more surprised to see me in that position than me. Lesley Logan 3:08  I don't know. I had to be really honest. We'll go on with your because, but I just want to say, like, your talk, (inaudible) like, three years ago, about imperfection was so good, like, to me, you were like a coach over a photographer. But anyways, tell everyone why you're more surprised.John Mollura 3:28  Yeah, and I'm talking like, longer than, like, the time you and I have been buddies, but like, just throughout my entire life, dude, I, like Forrest Gump-ed my way through, like, never really had a plan, and I came to realize the reason why I never had a plan is because if you didn't have, like, a plan and a target and goals, guess what, you could never fail. And I was so afraid of failure, like I never wanted to, you know, put my name on something, be like, this is what I want to do. So that is why I say I've, -like, Forrest Gump-ed my way through. And I I'm surprised I'm here, because it was never the plan, because I never had a plan. Lesley Logan 4:05  This is so fascinating. I think people just freaking like, were like, caught, like that, like, caught, you know, because you just said, If you don't have a plan, you can't fail. And I'm afraid of failure. And I think there's a lot of people who have been just like, it's a lot going on, it's really hard to make decisions in this time, like, you know, and it's like you can do that for so long, and at some point, like, there's a calling that you have, the universe is going to force you to do it. Do you feel forced?John Mollura 4:38  So I like to call them two by four moments, Lesley, and these are those moments in life where the universe, or God or who, whomever you believe, is kind of orchestrating all this. If you're not paying attention enough, they whack you upside the head with a two by four. And you find yourself in these situations where it's like you're just forced into these changes, and you know you don't have to answer the call, but the price you pay is that you just have this just spiritual discontent with inside of you, and that is such a yucky and exhausting feeling.Lesley Logan 5:13  Yeah, it really is like, and I think anyone listening like, I can think of times when, like, I feel like I got hit by a back truck, and then you're like, why didn't you tell me before the Mack truck came? And then you look back and you're like, there was a little flashlight right there, and then there was this like thing over here. You ignored those so I had to hit you with a Mack truck to get your attention.John Mollura 5:37  Yeah, yeah. There is a story that I like to tell when I'm doing like a small group, and it's like people are like, you know, they they end up at the pearly gates, and they're like, God, why didn't you save me? And that is like, what are you talking about? It's like, I sent, I told you to leave the house before it flooded. I sent you the news report, and you didn't listen. And then when you climbed on your roof. I sent you a boat, saying, hey, get in the boat. And you said no, and then I sent a helicopter, like, what else do you want? So we don't, we don't pay attention to these signs all along the way.Lesley Logan 6:10  We're expecting it to say, John, this is for you. Like, Lesley, this is yours. And the truth is, is that, like, you know, we all get choice. That's what we were given. We were given this choice to listen or to not to listen, and those choices have consequences. So if you choose not to listen, you get hit by a two by four, hopefully before you drown. Hopefully, hopefully you pay attention before you drown. So, tell, can you take us back to some of the two by fours that kind of shoved you this way? John Mollura 6:40  Yeah. Yeah. So, so my my career again, like starting back with my career after I graduated engineering school from Penn State in like 2001 shout out, Nittany Lions, we are, is I ended up working in the space program. Right?Lesley Logan 6:58  Yeah, which is so badass. It's like the, I mean, it's what every kid grows up to wanting being an astronaut, you got to do that without going to space. But, like.John Mollura 7:06  Space Cadet, yes, astronaut, no, but I did get to work with them, and the reason why I literally fell into that job was because I lost out on an internship with Disney in college and taught rock climbing for the summer, and that actually was what bubbled me to the top of the guy who hired me, who was former Special Forces and he said, Hey, look, I'm like, why'd you pick me? Like, I had, like, a decent grade, other than my shining personality and, you know, rapier wit, why did you pick me, Skip? And he said, I don't need another, you know, gosh darn egg head on this team. I need someone I can send out into the field and not get me or themselves killed. He said, you're smart enough. So again, like, you know, I wasn't planning on ever being a rock climbing instructor, but I was offered the jobs I know other options. That's what bubbled me to the top, where I worked in the space and defense industry for 15 years, leading test operations for NASA and working with elite military units, and a big two by four moment came in 2009 right after our first child was born, where, like, I really felt like I wasn't going to be a good dad, just because, you know, my past trials and traumas. And then right after that, one of my best childhood friends intentionally overdosed and passed away, and I was I was a mess. I was an absolute wreck. And, you know, I can remember thinking, Well, maybe he got it right. Maybe I shouldn't be here. And for whatever reason, I said the Serenity Prayer like it popped in my head.Lesley Logan 8:41  Isn't it funny how we all know that prayer, we all know, like, if that prayer is like, right there, it's like, so like, like, we're, I feel like we're born with it, like it's so good.John Mollura 8:49  Yeah, yeah. And for those of you, you know, here's a variation I love is, you know, accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be, you know. And like, as soon as I finished it, I felt this warm sensation and like, you know that that's when I found, like, true religion and freedom. But it wasn't like all unicorns and rainbows and stuff like that. It was quite the opposite. It was where, like the proverbial scales fell from my eyes, and I realized what an a hole I was in life to protect myself. So that started me on this journey of faith and getting my, you know, just seeing how the world saw me, and I built up this like superhero exterior, but really just to protect the wounded person inside. And as I really came to terms with that and started healing, I started realizing that, wow, this job that I have, like you said, which is, like every kid's dream, like, you know, former 80s kid, like you we grew up watching Star Wars and, you know, all the things like that. I was like, this job isn't satisfying me. This isn't this isn't where I'm supposed to be. I'm good at it. I'm world class at it. But, man, I'm just not happy.Lesley Logan 9:58  Yeah, yeah, that's what Gay Hendricks would call from The Big Leap, he would call, like, your zone of excellence, but not your zone of genius. And, like, It's uncomfortable to be in the zone of excellence for a long time. People think you're weird, but like, you just don't like, you're like, I this, I can do this in my sleep, but it's not challenging me. It's not making me feel satisfied. John Mollura 10:19  Right? Yeah, that's not bringing life into me. So I went and, you know, did the responsible thing, and as a now father of three, and got another higher paying job in engineering, and was even more miserable and out of alignment. Lesley Logan 10:32  Just wanted to make sure. John Mollura 10:34  Yeah, just wanted to make sure this is definitely not for you. So almost, almost eight years ago to the day. We're recording this in early April, on April 7th of 2017 was when I walked away from corporate life and turned my side hustle photography in my full time gig. And it, you know, it was filled with a lot of ups and downs. You know, I had the opportunity, like National Geographics featured my stuff. I photograph my Grammy winners, like all the cool things, but it never really took off. Right? So here, you know, we're already up to two, two by four moments. There's, you know, the death of my friend and my spiritual awakening. You know, realizing this, like, dream career wasn't serving me. So if you're counting along, that's two, two by fours to the head, I don't catch on real quick. And then, actually, our initial conversation, and I looked it up, was in January of 2022, shout out, Brand Builders.Lesley Logan 11:34  I know, I know. Oh my God, that is, that is, I mean, we met, I guess, that is crazy. This podcast has been on for a long time.John Mollura 11:42  Yeah, and it wasn't even about the podcast that was about a webinar. You had this like, zany idea to be like, Hey, does anybody want to talk about imposter syndrome? I'm like, What's that? So I, like, Googled. I'm like, Oh my God, that's what I had even like as I was getting, like, letters of commendation from the military, like I felt like I didn't deserve it, and I was like, one screw up away from, like, failing and like everyone seeing I was faking it. So during this photography career, as the photography was starting to slow down, that came into my life, that came into my path, and then that turned into a keynote, and then the keynote turned, you know, into another keynote called elite level confidence. And that started getting traction. Meanwhile, my photography business is going down, right?Lesley Logan 12:30  Yeah, I'm going to challenge you on that second two by four. I think that the second two by four is a door, like a bridge or just like a guide, because I think, like, you would never have been in the room that you were in. So I feel like, maybe there's a second, two by four. And just like, hey, this photography thing is a beautiful hobby, and you're really good at it, and it's another zone of excellence. But like, they're, we're calling you over here. But I just think, like, I think, like, the everything happens for a reason, and you were in that room because of photography, you know, or maybe there was something inside you that was like, calling you to go for more, and maybe you knew about this coaching thing sooner. But I think, like, I wonder, like, would you have gone from engineering to elite level coaching? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I.John Mollura 13:14  Right, I mean, it all falls together. You know, when you're looking back at the path, it's like, oh, that makes sense. But yeah, in the moment you're like, what the heck it's going on here? Lesley Logan 13:23  Yeah, so okay, I remember, because I get your emails, I remember when you're like, oh, I'm not doing this for I'm closing my studio. And I was like, wow, I hope he's not going back to engineering. I'm so happy you're not. But you know, like, I was just like, oh, because I've been in this world long enough and like, it's really, it is really difficult to whatever your passion is, whether you're a photographer, listening or not, like one of my dear friends, like she makes her magic happen as a photographer, but it is you absolutely can get paid for your passion, but you also have to remember, it's still work, you know? And if it's not, if it doesn't serve you and your family, then it's not serving you, and you have to, like, change it. So, okay, how did you be it till you see it, from photographer to coach, because that I feel like, you know, like, how did you address that? How did you come to terms with your heart? How did you tell your family? How to tell people that I feel like people get stuck on like that, but what are people gonna say? What? How do I explain why I changed again?John Mollura 14:20  Yeah, and that was a lot of internal dialog when I was like, oh man, I'm starting to feel this, this just spiritual discontent again. And I'm like, I've wrestled with it. I'm like, are you kidding me, John, like, like you already had, like, a dream everybody wants. Like, you worked in the space program. You literally worked with astronauts and fighter pilots. Like, how cool is that? And then I did photography again. A lot of people like that. They're like, my dream is to be a photographer full time. And I'm like, oh, no, this isn't really filling me up anymore. So that was something I really wrestled with, Lesley, like, like, I didn't want to tell my wife, who's been on this, like, roller coaster with me, like, because I was embarrassed. I'm like, what is wrong with me? Why am I just such a like, you know, then all the negative voices start, right? It's like, you're a malcontent. You're never going to be happy, you know, all the things and but what I realized, what I really leaned into, was the truth of the matter, was, especially after Covid, because the photography I did, like headshots, portraits, things like that. So I was always working with people, and I saw such a change in people's demeanor. Like, I get it. Being photographed is not anyone's favorite pastime, really. But, like barely.Lesley Logan 15:31  I love it, but I'm weird. John Mollura 15:33  Right. Yeah, there's a very small percentage of people, but you know, every photo shoot would start the same. Good luck getting a good picture of me. And it's like, okay, yeah, that before, but there was something different, especially after Covid, where people just had this just lack of confidence in themselves. So I started realizing, like I was doing coaching sessions with people, just to get them comfortable being in front of the lens of the photo shoot they paid big money for.Lesley Logan 16:02  That's insane. I can totally see that 100%, yes.John Mollura 16:06  Yeah. So that's, that's what I really started leaning into. So my first coaching program that I came up with a couple years ago was called Authentic Men of Action. Because, you know, Rory Vaden, who actually brought us together through his Brand Builders was, he always says, you're best suited to serve the you that you used to be. And I'm like, God, I was a mess. So I thought, let me create this program to to work with men, to really help them take action and get after what is important to them and best serve people that are in their lives. And again, it kind of took off. But then, like, women started reaching out, like their girlfriends and wives, and they're like, Hey, can, like, we get in on this? And I'm like, okay, you know, cue all the limiting beliefs, you know, tripping up like, Oh, you gotta know what to say. You're gonna know how to help people. John Mollura 16:52  Almost like, you know when to, like, hit the button. You're like, okay, here they are. Like, just come at me.John Mollura 17:01  Yeah, yeah. And my wife's like, she's like, you know, you're a father to two daughters, you're a great husband. Like, why don't you just see how it goes, John, and quit over thinking this. Like, okay, so yeah. Then I opened the coaching up to the women, and then the keynotes started. Were with which turned into elite level confidence, you know? And it's just been a beautiful progression of just listening and seeing what the need is, and then answering the call and not letting those limiting beliefs stop me. Lesley Logan 17:24  Yeah, I think it like it takes, in the ideal world is like each time you get to know yourself and what you want more, and that each time you be it till you see it, like the space between hearing and limiting beliefs and still taking action, ideally, gets shorter. Like, I actually don't think that you they just go away. John Mollura 17:55  They never go away. Lesley Logan 17:56  I think if you're not a narcissistic, egotistical sociopath, like if you are, they never go away. You just recognize it. You're like, Oh, I know this station. I can actually just turn it off. Like, thank you. You know, like, I get to, I get to turn that off now, and I think that's so interesting. I also, like, was want to highlight, like, I do think that there's a massive confidence problem, and no one is like, you know, the coaches I've worked with, because I worked with a lot, since I'm in the fitness world, there's a lot of people who are like, you are, like, creating fitness programs so women feel confident. And the truth is, as my coach, is correct, no one is actually Googling how to get more confident, right? Like they're Googling, like, weight loss or whatever, but what they are wanting, the byproduct is confidence. Now that we've on the other side of Covid, I do think there's a lot of people who reckon, who are like, defeated, you know, and, and because, especially people our age who, like, you know, graduated, like, went to college in 2001 graduated to the recessions, you know, then once we started getting our legs under us, then Covid hit. Like, it kind of can feel like, if your evidence is every few years you get knocked down, you may as well stay in a safe place which doesn't make you more confident, it makes you have some dissonance, and that is where a lack of confidence comes from. So I do think that more and more people are needing it and even more aware, but they're using the word imposter syndrome and and other things to to describe it. Okay, you've done speeches before because, like, you had, like, you've had the career with, with space and all that stuff. But like, what was it like to give your first keynote under this, like, this iteration, this, like, next level, this, be it till you see it version of you?John Mollura 19:40  Yeah, one of my coaches told me something that really resonated with me, and now I share it with with my clients that want to, like, do keynote speaking. They said the best thing you can do to reduce the nerves is not to focus on yourself, because if you go out there with this mindset of, like, Oh my gosh. I need to, I need I need to, I need to not forget any lines. I need to hit my marks on the stage. I need to. I need to just, just, just, just crush this like, that's when it goes completely sideways, yeah? Because it's all inward focused. So being switching the mindset of like, okay, I'm gonna go out here. I'm well rehearsed. I've done the preparation that I need to do, and I'm doing that not so I look awesome, but so I can best serve everybody that's out in the audience. So the first time I gave that talk, you know, I did like the rotary thing, where I talked to rotary groups and get my legs under me and refined it. The first official time I gave it was to a group of people that had just completed a year of service with AmeriCorps, and they were transitioning out of that volunteer space. And now, you know, going a lot of them going back into whatever organizations they helped with, but also taking this knowledge and going forward, and they and they've changed, during these years of service.Lesley Logan 21:06  Yeah. Who they were when they started is a very different person, you know. John Mollura 21:10  Right, right. So I partnered up with AmeriCorps because they were, the leadership realized that when people would leave, they were they they didn't, they were kind of rudderless, because they weren't the same person going back to their lives they had before. So they brought me in to speak to them. And is a very beautiful thing about like ways we can sabotage ourselves with, with just, you know, whether it's it's perfectionism or having this kind of lone wolf mentality, building walls in our relationship, you know, focusing on, like perfectionism that leads to procrastination and overthinking and all the things it was helping them see and just be aware of these, these things that will pop up.Lesley Logan 21:55  Yeah, yeah. I sorry to hit you off. I think like understanding how we sabotage ourselves is one of the biggest things we could ever do for ourselves. So you mentioned perfectionism, lone wolf. What are some of the other like ways we can we can sabotage ourselves because we look at it as like it's happening to us, but really we're doing it to us.John Mollura 22:17  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and that, that's where you know, my newest free resource that I've is on my website for people, it's The Six Leverage Points for Success, and it talks about, you know, creating legacy for yourself, like, how to honor this future you that is out there. You know, how to build your confidence. And we'll, we'll chat about here in a moment, about, like, the like, the real reason, like, why a lot of folks' confidence is lacking, talking about the ways that we can put more structure into our relationships, because people don't like to say, I'm going to put boundaries up, because that seems, you know, like they're keeping everything else. Like, no, it's not about putting walls up around. It's about putting walls up, but then putting some gates in with some quality guards that are there.Lesley Logan 23:05  Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of freedom in a boundary that people don't see it like they see it like as a cement wall. And it's like, well, it's actually just like, a guideline of how you can treat me in this situation. But okay. John Mollura 23:16  Yeah and then helping people understand the value of like focus, because so often when we're on these journeys, like, what are we doing? We're looking to that person over there, and then we're looking at their Instagram account, and then we're, you know, next thing, you know, you're completely side you know, you've spun yourself into the ground because you're looking at everybody else instead of keeping your eyes ahead. And then then finally, talking about helping people get into action. So that that's, that's kind of, those are kind of the ways that I've realized people have been sabotaging themselves. Like, okay, this is what they are, heads up, because awareness is so powerful. Yeah.Lesley Logan 23:52  Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I I think, like, every time I think, like, something is like, not working, I can actually, if I just, like, take a moment after being upset about what's not working, so, oh, I actually tried to this by myself, or I guided this, like, focusing on, like, where my marks are. Where am I doing this, as opposed to, like, how is this impacting them? Why is this the thing that they need? Like, I can see, like, where I, like, got inwardly focused and sabotaged myself when really, like, I know the answer. And I guess what the cool thing is, you can actually pivot. You can actually just make changes once you're aware. But you have to be aware of these things to see them, yeah.John Mollura 24:34  Yeah and there and there's, there's, there's another component to that, which I found is really powerful, is that it's not just being aware, then it becomes very important that we're not judging ourselves with our awareness. Because when you're judging yourself and you're aware, like, I call that like, that's where the critic lives. Like, these are the people that have had their hearts stomped on, and they're like, never, this is never gonna work. This won't work. No one will want it like that's being judgmental and aware. Where we want to be is we want to shift into, like, what I call being the seeker mindset, which is where you're aware, but then you use, I know, one of your favorite words, which is curious. When we're aware and curious, man, that's where beautiful things happen, right? Yeah, that's where, like, we're a seeker, and we're like, this is where I want to go. I'm not really sure how I'm going to get there, but I'm going to start embracing this journey and seeing what resources and people I have that can help me get to there. And spoiler alert, that there is probably going to shift a little bit, but at least you're going towards that with awareness and curiosity.Lesley Logan 25:34  Oh, I love that you called out the judgment, because I think we can. It's so easy for us to like then be aware oh, here I am being my lone wolf and like, just like, continue going down the judgment zone, which is not where creativity nor confidence can live, by the way, like, judgment and gratitude can't live in the same place. Like, so yeah, it's a whole, it's a whole, those energies don't coexist very well. Okay, so can we talk a bit about confidence? Because, like, I do think, like, I find, first of all, I'm always shocked that people think that people like you or I struggle with confidence. And I think, like, it's really hilarious because, like, I just personally think that they see in us what they want for themselves. And so there's a projection that's happening, and us just doing the thing scared shitless. Like, like, it's what they think is confidence, and really it's like, well, I'm not going around with a sign on my shirt saying I'm scared shitless while I'm doing this, but also I am doing this because I know that if I do this sooner than I think I'm ready, I'm gonna get feedback, and when I get feedback, I can get better. Like, that's actually and then confidence is a byproduct, like, can we because I feel like people have a misinterpretation of what true confidence is. John Mollura 26:51  Right, right. So what confidence is, you know, the definition is a belief in yourself, a belief in your abilities. And I'm going to start this with a question. If I ask you, or most people, I'm sure your listeners are, listeners are all lovely, wonderful people, if I ask you or your listeners, like, when you make a commitment to somebody, like, do you show up to that person you've made the commitment to? Right? Like, pretty much 100% right? What if I tweak that question and said, How good are you at showing up when you've made a promise just to yourself?Lesley Logan 27:31  See, this is interesting, because this is where, like, I'm really good with myself, but I also know that, like, the time, I'm the first born, firstborn daughter, first born grandchild. There's like, the upholder in me is real. Like, if I don't have to tell anyone to do something, I'm going to do it. But that is also where perfectionism lives, so I have to be very mindful of that. Of like, am I doing it because I'm trying to be perfect, or am I doing it because I, like, I said I would do it so. But I actually know from studies that like the most people listening, they don't, they don't keep it to themselves. They keep it for everyone else but themselves.John Mollura 28:08  Right, and that and that right, there is the root, from all the research I've done that's actually the root of people's lack of confidence, is they're not showing up for themselves. Because here's what happens, is we're lying to ourselves. We say I'm going to wake up and go to the gym, or, I mean, this is the year I'm going to start eating healthier, or I'm going to floss my teeth every night. Like, pick, pick a commitment you've made to yourself. If we continually break these commitments time and time again, well, guess what? Our brain recognizes I can't trust me.Lesley Logan 28:44  Oh, there. It's, that's it. That's confidence. It's the ability to trust yourself. John Mollura 28:50  Right. Right? Right? Lesley Logan 28:53  That's so good, yes. John Mollura 28:55  Right, and people, when we're when we get into this headspace of, like, why can't I just do the thing like, why can't I start working out? Why can't I start this business? Why can't I have this critical conversation with somebody? They're like, what I don't understand, what's wrong with me? I work with them all the time that they say this and I say, what's causing it is, obviously the root is, you're not keeping promises to yourself on whatever it is, but because you keep your promise to everybody else, your brain kind of short circuits, because it's like, wait a minute, I do keep my promises. And it's like, no, you don't. So there's this like, weird dichotomy going on in your head, as they say, the only way to rectify that is just start keeping promises to yourself and start giving your brain a new set of data to work with, instead of this old set of data that that you with these promises that you've broken to yourself.Lesley Logan 29:47  Okay, yes to all that, because we get we allow our phones to get new data all the time. We allow scientists to give us new data. We allow so much grace for people to bring in new data and yet for ourselves were like, no, I'm gonna go on that old operating system, like.John Mollura 30:04  Yeah, you're like, working on a Commodore 64. Lesley Logan 30:06  Yeah, oh, yeah. Wait, so this is a funny example. So we've, we got a used car, car of my dreams. It's used, and it is amazing. It is a 2015 that has more technology than my 2020 does. And we, but we were like, Bluetooth-ing to it, which is kind of amazing for a 2015, car to have Bluetooth, right? Kind of amazing. And we're like, oh, it's skipping. I wonder how we update this thing. And it's got, you guys, it has a DVD player. Okay? Car has a DVD player. I didn't know. I was like, oh, it's got a CD player. Were people playing CDs in 2015? No, it doesn't connect to the internet, so it cannot update its system. Like, cannot. I'm gonna have to find some dude, I'm sure it exists here, who, like, can change an operating system. Well, at least that part of the car, right? I'm sure it exists where I live. But it cannot change. However, if we look at that, like, since 2015 how much has technology changed? How much have you changed? How much have you learned about yourself, and if you're still operating off the 2015 version of you, that is going to that is not going to be fun and also going to cause a lot of issues, because the whole world has updated 10 years.John Mollura 31:16  Right. Yeah. And the beautiful thing is, it might sound daunting, like, oh my gosh, I don't want to have to, like, reinvent myself. And how am I going to keep promises to myself? You know, I haven't done the thing that I said I was going to do. How am I going to even start doing it now? And I say, the beautiful thing is, about your brain is it doesn't recognize the magnitude of the promise you keep to yourself, like it doesn't recognize the difference between the promise of like, I'm going to climb Mount Everest or I'm going to floss my teeth every night. All it's doing is kicking the block saying, done, done, done, done, and then eventually you're going to hit, like, a critical mass where you're like, wait a minute. I'm just kind of doing things that I said I was going to do that's wild, because that's the beauty of taking small, consistent actions.Lesley Logan 32:08  Yeah, yeah. It's like, I love that you brought that up. We think we need, like, some sort of big goal to get going. And really, if you are not already consistently hitting things you say you were gonna do that is, like, a recipe for disaster. Like that is a self-sabotage in itself. Like it is, like, if you are, like, wanting to, like, just make sure you put another sabotage. You'll put a goal on. You'll put a habit on. Like, if you don't go the gym every day, you're like, I'm gonna go the gym five days this week. I don't even need a crystal ball to tell you that you won't. It is impossible to go from never putting your gym bag in the car, going to the gym, hitting the red lights, getting out, knowing where the equipment is, to get in a decent workout, to get the dopamine high that makes you want to go back again. Like it doesn't work. If you live in my town, every other day there's a new construction site. So you don't even get to go the same route, you know, so like, but you have to make it small so it's attainable. That's where you know that perfectionism stuff lies, because then people are like, well, if it's not, if I don't do it, if it's not all or nothing, then it's not worth doing. Like, how do you talk to yourself about doing a small thing? What did you do? John Mollura 33:19  Right. And a lot of that comes down to like that, like, you hit the nail on the head, where people are like, well, I don't have time to get in my hour long workout, so I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it tomorrow, because, you know, I strive for excellence, and I if it's not done right, it's not worth doing at all, which I say, time out. Like, what's better? 45 minutes of exercises, and maybe you don't do the squats and the overhead press for another set or zero? Like, it's perfectionism. This, this kind of all or nothing mentality, and I call these the big three, Lesley, there's perfectionism, there's procrastination, and then there's overthinking, right? Those are three big things that just derail us from doing the things that we want to do, or the things we say are so important from us. And the good news is about these three, perfectionism, procrastination and overthinking, is they all have the same root, like we don't focus on perfectionism because we really care so much about whatever it is. We don't procrastinate because we suck at time management. That's the story we tell ourselves. I'm just bad at time management.Lesley Logan 34:31  Yeah, we're not, because there's plenty of proof that you've, like, nailed some things on time, like. John Mollura 34:35  Right, right. We don't overthink because, you know, it's just so important to us that we think of every considerable contingency. The root of procrastination, perfectionism and overthinking, it's fear, and if we get a handle on fear being the root of procrastination, perfectionism and overthinking, now we can get honest with ourselves. We can start telling ourselves the truth of what am I so scared of?Lesley Logan 35:03  Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the question of the day. John Mollura 35:08  Yeah. And it, and it goes back to when we first started here. I said I never came up with a plan, because if you don't have a plan, you can never fail, right? You never, you can never miss your target. So it's the same with procrastination or perfectionism. We find, I bet, if we're honest with ourselves, a lot of things we procrastinate the most on or get, you know, tangled up in perfectionism and overthinking are the things that are probably the closest to our heart and perfectionism, procrastination, overthinking are so convenient ways to hide because if you procrastinate for long enough, you never do the thing. And you can never fail. You try to keep making it perfect, which, spoiler alert, perfection doesn't exist, everybody. Excellence does not perfection. We never have to do the thing. And the reason why these are usually so coupled to the things that are so important to us is because one of our greatest fears as humans, I mean, like we're social creatures, right? One of our deepest fears of everybody is just the way we're wired, is to be kicked out of the tribe, the village, the clan, whatever it is. So a lot of times we resist most putting the things out that show the most of us, because we don't want people to reject us, reject what we're doing, because that taps on a very primal fear.Lesley Logan 36:37  Yes, oh, I mean, I mean, so much so, like, I remember not wanting to put out a YouTube video. My husband's like, you should be on YouTube. It's like, you know, 2014, I was like, no, no no, because people are gonna hate it, and they're gonna wonder, who they who am I to do this? There's other people who in my industry who have been teaching longer, and they should have the time. And he goes, I don't know who those people are. I don't care. You need to be on YouTube. And I remember being so scared, and I did the thing because I had to do it kicking and screaming with him, and no one actually got mad. And I was like, oh, then what am I actually afraid of? You know, like I was afraid of being kicked out of, like, the industry, like people would think that I'm some narcissist who thinks she knows everything, and really, what I do get instead, because I did it, is that people love how I show things imperfectly. I'm quite honest and candid about where I am. I'm very direct, and I'm I invite them to go there's actually, like, your body's gonna look different doing this. And so because, because I was, because I should have as me and focus on like the person viewing it, versus like me, it actually turned out to be the best thing I could ever done, because it's so much more authentic. And what I was afraid of didn't happen. In fact, I got brought into the community more, you know, like, and that's but, you know, here's the thing, it is true that whatever you want to do, you might get kicked out of your tribe. You might. There are, there are people who are assholes, and then probably, if you ask yourself, like, do I really, like, want to be in this tribe, not being my authentic self the and you know what I mean, like, I so you're gonna get a two by four to the head, is really what's gonna happen. But your tribe might come with you. You'd be surprised, like, how many people were like, Whoa, John or Lesley really did the thing. And I'm, I'm inspired by them, they actually might join in.John Mollura 38:31  Yeah, there's, there's a quote by CS Lewis that I absolutely love. You know, the dude who wrote The Chronicles of Narnia is he says friendship is born that moment that someone says, Wait a minute, you too? I thought I was the only one. Right? Lesley Logan 38:50  Well, John, I could talk to you forever about confidence and imposter syndrome. I really do love this topic. I'm so freaking glad this is what you're doing, because your journey has brought you here. And one of the reasons I wanted to have you back on the pod is, like, I think people get so hung up on like, well, I said I was going to be the photographer, so I've got to be the photographer. I made that switch. And the reality is is like, that could have just been the first next step for you. And so I really wanted people to see, like, what can happen. Look what can happen in three in three years. Like, that's kind of insane. Like, it sounds like a long time. It's not a long time. I can't believe this podcast has been this long. I feel like I just started it. So even though. John Mollura 39:36  That's really hitting you deep, isn't it? It's like the fifth time you mentioned.Lesley Logan 39:36  I know I might.John Mollura 39:36  Let's unpack that, Lesley. Lesley Logan 39:36  Well, here's what it is. The unpacking is, I actually don't think I'm getting older. I think I'm the same age I was when I moved to Vegas. Like I, actually, we moved here in June of 2020, so in two months, this will have lived here for five years. And It shocks me every day, because I feel like we just moved here. And so when things like this happen, or I meet my friend's kids I haven't seen a few years, I'm like, oh I have gotten older, and, like, not that I'm scared of getting older. That's not it at all. It's just that I actually haven't noticed that. I haven't noticed how much time has flown. And I think one, it's good to notice it, because you can celebrate all that you have done in the last three years. It's kind of epic, right? And then two, time is always going and so what are we doing with that time? You know, if you are procrastin on something, I hope that the five times I mentioned, like, how long it's been, you realize, if you were with us on episode 120 and you still haven't done the thing you wanted to do, like, this is your sign. John Mollura 40:37  Yeah, here's your two by four. Lovingly swung by Lesley and John. Lesley Logan 40:41  Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I think that's really the unpacking. It's like, I hope that people who have have listened from that episode on have either noticed their sabotaging moments or are going, oh my goodness, it has been three years. Okay. What can I do today? You know, like, what can I do to be it till I see it today? Like, that's what I hope. Let me get this, anyways, we're gonna take a brief break and we can find out where people can find you, follow you, work with you. John Mollura 41:08  Super duper. Lesley Logan 41:10  Hi, John. Where do you hang out? Where can they take your group or your coaching or watch a keynote? Where's it all happening?John Mollura 41:18  Yeah, so they can go to johnmollura.com J-O-H-N-M-O-L-L-U-R-A dot com, and there is a fun little button there that says, schedule a free call with John. And it is truly that. It is a free call with me, because I just love to chat with people and see where they're at. It's not a sales call. It's just, I love having conversations with people about that. So johnmollura.com they can also download the free resources, the six leverage points for success that I talked about, and they can also get my Elite Level Confidence Blueprint. So there's actually two free resources there. They are under the free stuff tab, creatively titled, but yeah. Just love to connect with people. I post regularly on Instagram, little daily things there my thoughts and musings, and sometimes there's just funny stuff or bloopers. So, John Mollura on Instagram.Lesley Logan 42:09  I love it. Okay, you have given us so many things. And obviously those freebies sound like a Be It Action Item all in themselves, but what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps can people take to be it till they see it? John Mollura 42:19  Right. So when you face these decisions, moment to moment, minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day, when you hit those decision points, you need to ask yourself, is what I'm going to do or not do going to cause me to be a hero to the future you? Is it when I meet the future you in the future, is it going to be standing there like downtrodden, tired, disappointed that we didn't go after it, or when you meet the future you, is it going to just like high five you and give you a big hug and say, thank you for honoring me, thank you for doing the thing in that moment.Lesley Logan 42:19  Oh, I love that. Oh, that's so fun. John Mollura 42:38  Yeah, super deep. Lesley Logan 42:48  That's great. I think that's such an impactful way to explore the fear, too. Yeah, guys, how will you use that tip in your life? Make sure John knows. Make sure you share it with the Be It Pod. Also share this episode with a friend. You know those friends who like keep overthinking the thing or procrastinating send it to them, they will only notice at this moment that why you're sending it to them. But like, you know, sometimes people need to hear it from someone else in a different word or just a different time, and so that's how we actually all rise up. We need to do it together. That's what makes your sandbox with your boundaries a more playful place, because everyone is understanding where that's coming from. So thank you for listening. John, thank you for being here. Fun to catch up with you. It's so good. We'll have to, we have to see each other in real life at some point. But, you guys, you know what to do. Until next time, Be It Till You See It. Lesley Logan 43:54  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Brad Crowell 44:36  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 44:41  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 44:46  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 44:53  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 44:56  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Episode Summary Host Tracy Brinkmann reveals how a Phoenix mom of three built a $2,847/month income stream by creating custom GPTs during her kids' naptime. This episode breaks down the exact 3-step system for turning parental pain points into profitable AI solutions, featuring real strategies that work around family schedules without sacrificing precious time with kids. Key Timestamps & Insights 00:00 - Opening 00:51 - Podcast Introduction & Episode Overview 01:20 - The Naptime Entrepreneur Revolution 02:42 - Lisa's Breakthrough Story 04:15 - Step 1: The Pain Point Audit (15 minutes) 06:05 - Step 2: The Naptime Build (45-90 minutes) 06:25 - Step 3: The Family-Proof Launch (30 minutes setup) 08:20 - The Bigger Picture: AI Democratization 09:40 - Whiskered Wisdom: 15-Minute Pain Point Inventory Episode on using AI for Deep Research - https://DarkHorseSchooling.com/EP513 Strategies Shared The 3-Step Parent GPT System Pain Point Audit (15 minutes during morning coffee) Naptime Build (45-90 minutes focused time) Family-Proof Launch (30 minutes setup, then runs itself) Profitable Niches Parents Are Dominating Birthday party planning Meal planning for picky eaters Youth sports team organization School fundraiser coordination Family budget tracking The Family-Proof Monetization Strategy Start pricing at $3-5 per conversation Upload to ChatGPT store Share in relevant parent communities Let word-of-mouth drive growth Resources Mentioned OpenAI GPT Store - Platform for selling custom GPTs AI Escape Plan Newsletter - Weekly strategies for parent entrepreneurs https://DarkHorseInsider.com Facebook Groups - Primary distribution channel for parent-focused GPTs Parenting Forums - Secondary distribution for validation and sales Action Steps to Take Immediate Action (Tonight) 15-Minute Pain Point Inventory: Set timer, brain dump every frustrating task you've Googled as a parent in past month Circle the 3 most frustrating problems These become your first 3 custom GPT ideas This Week Choose your most frustrating pain point Validate demand in 3 relevant Facebook groups Block out 90 minutes for your first GPT build This Month Build and launch your first custom GPT Price at $3-5 per conversation Share in parent communities where your audience gathers Call to Action Join the AI Escape Plan Newsletter - Your weekly roadmap for parents ready to break free from the 9-to-5 grind. Each issue delivers practical, AI-powered strategies to start, grow, and streamline side hustles—all designed to protect your family time while boosting your income. https://DarkHorseInsider.com Key Message: Your goal isn't to become an AI expert—it's to use AI to get your life back. Episode Quotes "The custom GPT market isn't being dominated by tech bros in Silicon Valley. It's being conquered by soccer moms in suburbia." "Your pain points are your profit points. If you're struggling with it, thousands of others are too." "The parents who take action on this simple exercise will be the ones building their first GPT next week." "Stop waiting for the perfect time. Start building during naptime. Your future self and your family will thank you."

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“Sometimes a term is so apt, its meaning so clear and so relevant to our circumstances, that it becomes more than just a useful buzzword and grows to define an entire moment,” the columnist Kyle Chayka writes, in a review of Cory Doctorow's book “Enshittification.” Doctorow, a prolific tech writer, is a co-founder of the tech blog Boing Boing, and an activist for online civil liberties with the Electronic Frontier Foundation—so he knows whereof he speaks. He argues that the phenomenon of tech platforms seemingly getting worse for users is not a matter of perception but a business strategy. For example, “the Google-D.O.J. antitrust trial last year surfaced all these memos about a fight about making Google Search worse,” Doctorow explains, in a conversation with Chayka. A Google executive had suggested that, instead of displaying perfectly prioritized results on the first search attempt, “what if we make it so that you got to search two or three times, and then, every time, we got to show you ads?” But, Doctorow argues, there is hope for a better future, if we can resist complacency; big internet platforms all depend on forms of “surveillance” of their users. “The coalition [against this] is so big, and it crosses so many political lines,” Doctorow says, “that if we could just make it illegal to spy on people, we could solve so many problems.”New episodes of The New Yorker Radio Hour drop every Tuesday and Friday. Join host David Remnick as he discusses the latest in politics, news, and current events in conversation with political leaders, newsmakers, innovators, New Yorker staff writers, authors, actors, and musicians.