Curling Legends Podcast

George Fink is unflappable. Raised on a farm in Saskatchewan, he began curling with his family on a two sheet club with natural ice. George won the Brier and World Championship in 1966 as third for Ron Northcott. The team, which included Bernie Sparkes and Fred Storey at front end, started as an entry into the Edmonton carspiel. George explains how the team came together and touches on his many other accomplishments, including winning five carspiels over his playing career.

John Cullen joins Kevin to discuss his new podcast series Broomgate: A Curling Scandal. John explains how the project came together, what he learned through the experience and what surprised him. John shares stories left out of the show and they discuss how sweeping is impacting the sport today. Following the talk with John, Warren Hansen provides his memories from two of the craziest Briers in history. The 1993 Brier featured an unexpected procedure to break the four-way tie for first place. The resulting Friday night fiasco was preceded earlier in the week by a secret visit from ice maker Shorty Jenkins. In 1994, the newly written Brier rulebook produced a stalemate between Rick Folk and Russ Howard on choice of stones ahead of the playoffs, all leading to a confrontation the night before Sunday's championship final.

Dorenda Bailey did it all by twenty-two. Growing up in Moosejaw, a provincial High School championship was followed by multiple collegiate victories representing the University of Saskatchewan. Junior girls curling was limited to regional events in the sixties but the women's ranks offered a chance to become a national champion. When Dorenda's sister Cheryl moved to Saskatoon in 1969 they were joined by Linda Burnham and Joan Andersen at front end and everything fell into place. The first step was beating defending Canadian champion Joyce McKee to win northern Saskatchewan. Next, the squad rebounded from a first game loss to win the best of three against Pauline Klaudeman from the south. Recently married and six months pregnant, Dorenda (now Schoenhals) was headed to the 1970 Canadian Ladies Curling Association Championship in Calgary. Beginning with long slides which were considered "un-ladylike" at the local club, to practice and fitness training, their team blazed a trail for young women in curling. Dorenda explains what to do with free beer when your team drinks milk and orange juice, finding uniforms for a teammate who wears jeans and how to balance your delivery while pregnant.

Jim Waite learned honour in curling at an early age. Playing lead in a bonspiel final, their opponent's last stone picked and Jim's skip, Don Anderson, allowed Alfie Phillips Sr. to throw it again. Jim got his purple heart in 1968, winning Ontario as second for Don Gilbert. He later moved to officiating, becoming chief umpire for several Canadian and World championships and in 1993 became the national coach for the Canadian men's team. Jim shares tales from his playing days to his four Winter Olympics including Gushue's phone calls, Team Harris pratfalls, and an oddly timed lunch between Kevin Martin and Pal Trulsen.

Susan Seitz kept knocking at the door. After winning an Alberta Junior Championship in 1968 it would take 13 years and several close calls before capturing her first women's provincial championship. Susan and third Judy Erickson, second Myrna McKay and lead Betty McCracken, travelled east to St. John's for the last CLCA Championship (Scott Paper took over sponsorship the following year). A win in the final game over local favourite Sue-Anne Bartlett was followed by a trip to Perth, Scotland for the third women's world championship. Susan shares stories from the early days to the Calgary curling scene of the 1970s, covering all the highs and lows of over five decades in curling.

Larry McGrath rode horses to the curling club. His father would take him via horse and sleigh on Saturday mornings to practice on a sheet of natural ice in Dodsland, Saskatchewan. Larry honed his skills in local bonspiels as a teenager and eventually came up against the famous Richardsons, and won. He initially found success teaming with Darlene Hill, John Gunn and Marlene Dorsett to win back-to-back Canadian mixed championships in 1967 and '68. Another mixed title came in 1971 (with Marlene replaced by Audrey St. John) but a purple heart still evaded him. Larry would reach his only Brier in London in 1974, falling just one game short of a playoff with Alberta's Hector Gervais. Larry shares stories from his early days to the many events and carspiels (he won three), being a driver for Paul Gowsell (and his opponent in the famous "pizza" game) and dealing with Russ Howard's headsets as player representative for the CCA in the 1980s. Larry passed away on August 20, 2023.

Eugene Hritzuk walked over to curl after hockey practice. Planted in goal with no face mask, the team took shots at him. After one puck whizzed past Eugene's ear and another hit him in the collarbone, it was time to try a safer sport. Strapping on suspenders and gnawing on straw from his corn broom, Eugene went to battle in the Saskatchewan playdowns and eventually won his first purple heart in 1985. He returned to the Brier in 1988 with Del Shaughnessy, Murray Soparlo and Don Dabrowski where they defeated Paul Savage in the semis and faced Alberta and the Ryan Express in a classic championship final. Eugene shares stories from that era and reflects on his early attempts to build a players association with Ed Lukowich. 

Hersh Lerner says if you're not nervous it's BS. Hersh grew up in Winnipeg, learning to curl at the Maple Leaf Curling Club. His talent for golf was matched by his prowess on the ice, scoring three 8-enders in one season. Joined by Coleman Staniloff, Robert Lemecha and Allan Dudar, Hersh first won a purple heart in 1963. The crowd in Brandon was stunned watching the Richardsons of Saskatchewan dismantle Manitoba 16-4. The Lerner squad didn't recover that week, finishing 3-7. Vowing he'd be back, Hersh returned in 1966, again with Robert and Allan and now joined by Bob Dudar at lead. They finished 6-4, defeating eventual winner Ron Northcott from Alberta but losing close games to Bob "Pee-wee" Pickering of Saskatchewan and runner-up Joe Gurowka of Ontario. Before talking to Hersh (43:50) Kevin sits down with the guest from episode 24, Wally Ursuliak and his friend Will Pacarynuk. "Lucky" Will, aka "Fudgie", has spent the last few years writing WALLY-san , a history of Wally's life and legacy.

George Karrys bought The Curling News. February 15, 2023 was the 25th anniversary of the Olympic men's curling final in Nagano, Japan. George and teammates Mike Harris, Richard Hart and Collin Mitchell of Canada won a silver medal after losing to Patrick Hurlimann of Switzerland. Five years later, George purchased the Canadian Curling News from Doug Maxwell. This episode looks back at the history of The Curling News, its origin dating back to 1957 and how George became the custodian of this legendary journal of curling. Follow the column "Buried Treasure" and Curling Legends Podcast Facebook page where host Kevin Palmer digs into past issues of The Curling News, sharing articles and photographs while tracing the evolution of the sport.

  Heather Houston isn't a stereotypical skip. She never felt a need to be the centre of attention, often avoiding the limelight. When Heather and Lorraine Lang formed a new team in 1987 with Diane Adams and Tracy Kennedy at front end, quick success made it difficult to evade public attention. After winning the Scott Tournament of Hearts in 1988, they became the first Team Canada to win the Scotties again in 1989. Heather shares her thoughts on skipping, finding success, dealing with disappointment and asks the question, "if you didn't win would you have had as much fun?". 

Al Hackner always concentrated on the game. His deep focus, cool demeanor and absence of emotional display led to his nickname "the Iceman". Al's partnership with third Rick Lang in 1979 led to four trips to the Brier final in the next 6 years. They won their first in 1982 with Bob Nicol and Bruce Kennedy at front end and later recruited Ian Tetley and Pat Perroud to capture their second Canadian and World championship in 1985. Al reflects on his famous double takeout against Pat Ryan at the '85 Brier in Moncton and shares many stories from his long career. The episode concludes with a recording of Arnold Asham performing "The Hack Came Back".

Joe Gurowka believes curling associations need to engage players. He shared this perspective in his retiring address as Ontario Curling Association (OCA) president in 1984. Joe's career as a player and administrator covers over half a century. He skipped Tom Howat, Ken Ingo and Donald Mackey through the Ontario Tankard in 1966 and narrowly lost the Brier in an extra-end playoff to Ron Northcott of Alberta. In a return trip to the Brier in 1976, Joe acheived the rare feat of shooting 100%. He went on to win his first Canadian Seniors Championship in 1986 as third for Earle Hushagen and added two more Seniors titles and a Masters playing second for Jim Sharples. Joe held many roles as a builder, including president of the Canadian Curling Association but it was during his time as president of the OCA that he was entangled in controversy with Ed Werenich during the 1984 Provincial Tankard and the legend of curling's version of “deep throat” was born.

Orest Meleschuk could accept when an opponent threw a good stone. But he was less tolerant when chaff from a corn broom turned a terrible miss into a made shot. In 1972 the luck of the chaff fell his way and together with third Dave Romano, second John Hanesiak and lead Pat Hailley, they won the 1972 Manitoba Tankard, Macdonald Brier and Air Canada Silver Broom (world championship). Orest reminisces on that magic season and recalls the famous "Labonte Boot." He shares thoughts on the 1989 Brier and a controversial burnt stone against BC's Rick Folk that may have cost his team (John Usackis, John Hyrich and Sean Meleshcuk) a trip to the playoffs. Plenty of tales from across the decades including his version of "Orest meets Ernie Richardson" along with thoughts on the modern era and why Orest believes curling is in trouble. 

Georgina Wheatcroft always wanted to be an Olympian. Initially kept out of the evaluation camps, she needed a Scotties victory with Pat Sanders in 1987 to qualify for the first ever Canadian Olympic Curling Trials. She eventually reached her goal, winning bronze at the 2002 Olympics in Salt Lake City. Georgina takes us through her journey, the high and lows, the close losses, running out of time at a skins game, and considers she might be the only player to have curled with both Joneses.

Don Lewis was an innovator. Being a curling icemaker in the 1970s was as much art as science. Don learned the craft in Saskatchewan, honed his skills with winter sojourns to Toronto in the early sixties and eventually became head icemaker for 14 Briers and 18 World Championships. He was inducted into the Canadian Curling Hall of Fame in 1989 and later joined the CCA board, becoming President in 2001. Don passed away August 11, 2021. Before talking to Don (29:40) Kevin talks with Warren Hansen about his new book "Sticks 'n' Stones: The Battle for Curling to be an Olympic Sport...". Warren also shares thoughts on Don Lewis and Larry Wood. A guest on Episode 55, Larry passed away on February 15, 2022. 

Erika Brown started young. At the age of 15 she qualified for the 1988 Olympic Games and would compete in her first World Junior Championships a month after her appearance in Calgary. Erika shares her experiences growing up in the first family of Madison curling, playing third for Lisa Schoeneberg and Patti Lank, then returning to skip and reaching the Olympics 26 years after her first appearance. She looks back on a storied career of 14 World Championship appearances and 3 Olympic games, including 4 second place finishes, and the close calls that kept her from reaching the ultimate goal, a gold medal. This episode also includes an excerpt from podcast episode "Galleria Gold"  from Rocks Across The Pond (84:00).

There are many legendary nicknames in curling. The Wrench, Snake, Moose, Arrow, Ice Man and the Round-Mound-Of-Come-Around are only a few.  But you may not have heard the legend of "Rock Bottom". Coach for Team Epping at the 2021 Tim Horton's Brier is Jim Wilson, aka R.B. Jim shares the origin of his nickname, some insight into Team Epping in the Brier bubble and considers a What If? for Wayne Middaugh's 1998 World Championship squad.  

Rae Kells was prepared for the challenge.  Her experience as a probations officer provided ideal training for work as a curling official.  Her steady approach to controversial finishes at the 1993 Canadian Junior Women’s and ’94 Junior Men’s championships led to nearly 3 decades officiating regional, national, and international events, including four Olympic Winter Games.  Rae was inducted into the Canadian Curling Hall of Fame in 2019. Before talking to Rae (30:24), Kevin speaks to Donna Boyle about her involvement with production of the recently released documentary Sticks and Stones: The Battle for the Soul of Curling.

Don Aitken misses corn brooms. With two players pounding in unison, the sound and rhythm was a thing of beauty. In the 1970s, Don practiced on linoleum during summer months and by winter, helped sweep up purple hearts, winning Quebec Provincial titles throughout the decade-first with skip Bill Kent and later Jim Ursel. His Brier championship victory came with Ursel, Art Lobel and Brian Ross, taking the title in their home city of Montreal in 1977. The Hall of Famer shares stories from early junior success and discovering drag effect in the 1960s, up to his final Brier appearances as a skip in the early 80s.

Terry Jones wanted to have fun. As a kid he ran errands for the press box during the local baseball tournament and saw the thrill of being a sportswriter. Over his career "Jonesy" has covered it all, including succeeding Don "Buckets" Flemming as the curling scribe for the Edmonton Journal. Terry shares a secret to Don's success, reveals his own origin story, then weaves a history of curling in Northern Alberta, by way of his book World Curling Capital. A limited release, some copies are still available and can be purchased by contacting Curling Alberta. Terry was inducted into the Canadian Curling Hall of Fame in 2019. This episode also includes Kevin's commentary on recent discourse about changing the Brier and Scotties (69:24) and an excerpt from podcast episode "Run it Back: 1997 Brier Final" from Rocks Across The Pond (85:50)

Elaine Dagg-Jackson pursued her passion to coach curling. The decision led her to amazing experiences across the globe and eventually her dream job as National Women's Coach with Curling Canada. Her introduction to the sport came from father Lyall, winner of the 1964 Brier and World Championship. Her first trip to the Scotties was in 1987 as the alternate for Pat Sanders, but it was her work with Julie Sutton in the early 90s that would raise her coaching development to new levels. Elaine shares how her path in curling was not always clear and reflects on the moments that ultimately led to her becoming one of the first professional coaches in the game.

Bert Gretzinger has a few stories to tell. Born in Winnipeg, he spent his middle-school years in Calgary and eventually landed in Vancouver, winning his first purple heart as vice for Bernie Sparkes in 1976. After moving to Kelowna, Bert next won the BC Provincials in 1989 with Rick Folk. They lost to the Ryan Express in the Brier final and when Pat moved to Kelowna, Bert was willing to drop to second to form a new team. With Gerry Richard at lead, their team of skips would compete in three straight Briers, including back-to-back finals against Russ Howard in 1993 and '94. Bert would finally skip a team to a Brier in 1999 and fall one game short of a chance at the Olympics in 2001. Bert tells stories of car spiels, calcuttas and his version of the rock handle controversy at the 1994 Brier. He also shares a lesson in gamesmanship from Bernie Sparkes.

Resby Coutts is a real life Les Nessman. Farm reporting was the primary job but having been a member of the Murray Nye team that lost the final of the 1981 Manitoba Tankard, curling was added to his radio duties. Resby shares how starting early at a one sheet club sparked a lifetime in the roaring game. We cover his playing years, the Brandon "Olympic" Trials, the story behind the first Brier and many other tales of Manitoba curling history. Resby is helping to fund the Manitoba Curling Hall of Fame. Go to https://www.canadahelps.org/en/charities/manitoba-curling-hall-of-fame-museum-inc/p2p/most-notable-teams/ before December 5th to contribute and vote on Manitoba's Most Notable Team. You can also visit his website at http://www.thecurler.com/.

Lindsay Sparkes was driven by a desire to improve rather than by competition. Leaving figure skating for curling she replaced judges with a scoreboard and by focusing on her own ability, eventually the winning took care of itself. Joined by childhood friends Dawn Knowles, Robin Klassen and Lorraine Bowles, Lindsay skipped her young team to the Provincial and Canadian Championship in 1976. They repeated in 1979, with the added pressure of representing Canada at the first ever Women's World Championship in Perth, Scotland. Lindsay shares stories from those early years and her later success, winning the Worlds and Olympics with Linda Moore, and why she stepped away from competition and became a national coach.

Glen Jackson was young and brash but made a mature decision when it mattered. A coin flip to determine who would be third for Paul Gowsell on their high school rink went to Neil Houston and Glen chose to stay with the team. Joined by Kelly Stearne at lead, the long haired teenagers with their push brooms would go on to win Canadian and World Junior Championships while taking home cash from some of the greatest teams of the era. Glen shares his version of legendary Gowsell stories like the van, the Van Winkle, the dog and the pizza. Before talking to Glen (30:45), I speak with transplanted Canadian living in Scotland, Doug Wilson (4:02). Doug works through his personal psychoanalysis of curling strategy with other curling fans on his Facebook group Daily Curling Puzzle.

Matt Hames was a mad man. Once a copywriter, just like fictional TV character Don Draper, Matt gave up three martini lunches at Bay and Bloor for six packs and road trips to bonspiels in Thunder Bay and a chance to make the Olympics. After falling short to reach the 1997 Olympic Trials with John Base, Matt landed with Scott Patterson and kept pursuing curling for a time, but eventually life took him to Upstate New York. We discuss Matt's journey and also how we met; not on the ice in 1995 when I lived in Toronto, but on his Curling Zoom party, which has become a twice weekly event during the COVID-19 pandemic. Before talking to Matt (40:57), I catch-up with my guest from Episodes 7 and 8, Warren Hansen (14:55). We discuss his new podcast with Kevin Martin, Inside Curling (hosted by Jim Jerome), and delve into Canada's Curling Hall of Fame. We also discuss rule changes, such as freezing a centre guard to discourage the tick-shot. My article that examines this rule (mentioned in the show) can be found at http://curlwithmath.blogspot.com/2020/05/ruling-final-end.html To find out how to join Matt's Zoom Curling Rewatch, go to https://www.facebook.com/curlinglegends

John Ferguson developed management skills from behind the tee-line.  Dealing with a contentious boardroom seemed easy after numerous years as vice for two of the most eccentric skips in curling history. As third for Paul Gowsell, John won the 1977 Canadian Juniors and 1978 Uniroyal World championships. He eventually teamed with Ed Lukowich and joined by Neil Houston and Brent Syme, they won the 1986 World Championship and captured the bronze medal at the 1988 Olympics in Calgary. John shares stories from across his curling days and gets to reminisce while watching a clip from Fast Eddy Curling Tips.

Guy Hemmings found curling by accident. Having moved to Montreal for University, during a Sunday morning walk he saw a sign to try curling at the Outremont Club. This chance encounter would eventually lead him to skip Quebec to the Brier finals. Twice. Guy, along with Pierre Charette, Guy Thibaudeau and Dale Ness, won over the crowds in Winnipeg (1998) and Edmonton (1999) with their play on the ice during the day and in the Patch each night. Guy shares his passion for the sport and describes what it's like being a celebrity in Western Canada while going unnoticed in your hometown.

Alison Goring likes to be around people. Socializing was also a form of sports psychology. She couldn't face the alternative of quiet solitude in a hotel room the night before a big game.  Alison won the 1983 Canada Winter Games and Canadian Juniors with Kristin Holman (now Turcotte), Cheryl McPherson and Lynda Armstrong.  Seven years later, with Andrea Lawes at second, Kristen, Cheryl and Alison would break through, winning Ontario and the Scott Tournament of Hearts. Her last Scotties ended with a finals loss to Sandra Schmirler in 1997; that team included Kim Moore along with Lori Eddy and Mary Chilvers of the 2 Girls and a Game podcast. Alison shares stories across her career including her greatest miss, how to over manage a time clock and tips for getting bar service at the infamous Welton Beauchamp Bonspiel. Cheryl joins for a brief cameo at the end as we try to recall who they beat in the final of the 1990 Ontario Tankard. Sparked by Alison's lesson from Ed Werenich at the 1990 World Championships, the episode begins with an inquest into the history of drag effect and this fascinating last rock from the semi-final of the Moncton 100 Bonspiel.  

Julie Skinner was always driven. Recognizing this, she was hesitant to return to curling when Kelley Law asked her to play third years after she'd stepped away. With the support of her family, Julie jumped head first into her second act and it led to a World Championship and Olympic medal. We discuss the early success with wins at two Junior Canadian Championships including a World Juniors in 1988, followed by her first Scotties victory in 1991. Julie explains why she left in her prime, why she returned then left again, and all the hurdles that came along the way including the bizarre method used to determine tie-breakers at the 1992 Scotties.

Don Bartlett returns for more conversation. He shares thoughts on the Brier boycott era and Team Martin with Carter Rycroft. Don discusses the Ferbey Four, playing a bonspiel with Paul Gowsell, split times and 5 rock Free Guard Zone. You can also hear Don Bartlett on Episodes 39 and 40.  

Peter Gallant never took to skating. His father was a hockey coach and while his older brother reached for a stick and puck, he chose a broom and slider. His choice led to nine Brier appearances with Prince Edward Island and a Canadian Mixed title in 1987. Peter started coaching with son Brett,  winning a Canadian Junior Championship in 2009. Years later Peter landed a role with South Korea where he coached Team Kim Eun-jung to a silver medal at the 2018 Winter Olympics in their home country. Peter shares stories from his early years, the Brier experiences and provides a glimpse into PEI curling history.

Ray Grant's father Andy felt one trip to the Brier was enough. After skipping Ontario at the first Regina Brier in 1955, Andy's experience was so fantastic he believed every competitive curler should be given a chance to go. However, they did return to the 1958 Brier in Victoria, with Murray Roberts now skipping. A loss to Northern Ontario in their final draw kept them from what could have been a three team play-off with Alberta's Matt Baldwin and the young Terry Braunstein Rink from Manitoba. Ray returned as skip to his third Brier in 1965 in Saskatoon. He shares stories of those years, trips on the Brier train, great teams they faced and the many big moments along the way.  

Bernie Sparkes loves the Brier. From his first purple heart as second for Ron Northcott in 1966 to his twelfth and final appearance skipping British Columbia in 1987, every visit to the Canadian Men's Curling Championship meant as much as the last. Bernie shares stories of the highs and lows at the top of the sport for over two decades. In between we'll cover Fred Storey sweeping techniques and how to repair blisters, along with practical jokes and the importance of team dynamics. Bernie also reveals a ploy he used to generate offense and explains why it didn't work on Paul Gowsell.

Earle Morris always knew how to prepare. Years before appearing in a Brier he studied the best teams, collecting binders of notes on how to approach the game. Travelling with the military made it difficult to establish himself but eventually Earle skipped Team Manitoba at the Brier in 1980. He won Quebec in 1982 as third for Don Aitken and returned again in 1985 as skip of Ontario, becoming the first player to represent three different provinces at the Brier. Earle shares stories from his upbringing in Saskatchewan, through the Brier runs to his brief tenure with the Canadian Curling Association ahead of the 1988 Olympics in Calgary. We also discuss his development as a coach and thoughts on team chemistry. Stay tuned at the end for an extra tale from the 2005 Olympic Trials and analysis of the final end from the 2009 Mens World Championship.

Pat Sanders was always determined to knock over obstacles.  Still a knee slider when starting university, she changed her delivery and fought to make the school team, later moving from toe slide to flat foot to improve even further.  Reaching the womens ranks, she by-passed the pecking order of positions and skipped at an age most would have started at lead.  In 1985 she won a Canadian mixed as third for Steve Skillings and then led her rink of Louise Herlinveaux, Georgina Hawkes and Deb Massullo to a Canadian and World Championship in 1987.  As Team Canada the following season, their toxic chemistry put them under the eye of the Canadian Curling Association.  Despite a black cloud over the squad, they lost the 1988 Scotties final on last rock.  Pat and Georgina then joined with lead Melissa Soligo and young phenom Julie Sutton as skip. By the late stages of the 1989 Scotties however, Julie had been demoted and Pat skipped the team to a tie-breaker where they lost to Saskatchewan.  Pat shares her thoughts on that era and the renewed joy for curling she found years later competing in Seniors and Masters.

Larry Wood doesn't like puff pieces.  He became editor of the Tankard Times, a daily newspaper at the Brier, on one condition; he wasn't going to pull any punches. As columnist at the Calgary Herald, Larry was scribe to many of the greatest moments in curling history. His first Brier was 1960 in Fort William (now Thunder Bay) and he only missed two in the next 55 years. Larry describes his early days in curling and the path that led him to cover those many Briers, Scotties and World Championships. We look back at some of the great players, ponder the evolution of the sport, and Larry reveals what happened at a secret initiation ceremony in Scotland.

In Part 2 of my conversation with Harvey Mazinke we begin with a Paul Gowsell story, discuss the original Labatt Brier cresting, re-writing of the "burnt stone" rule, hogline officials and the controversy surrounding the qualifying for the 1988 Olympics. Harvey was President of the Canadian Curling Association from 1987-1988 and takes us behind the scenes from that era. We eventually head back to 1975 and '76 for a few more Brier tales.

Harvey Mazinke influenced curling as a player and a builder.  Growing up in Manitoba, Harvey reached the Brier in 1964 with Bruce Hudson, but moved to Saskatchewan a few years later.  Eventually he built a team of Billy Martin at third, George Achtymichuk at second and Dan Klippenstein at lead.  In 1973 they broke through to win the Brier in Edmonton.  The reward was a return trip home to Regina for the World's where an unbeaten record was spoiled by a loss to Sweden in the final game.  In Part 1 of our conversation, Harvey talks about that championship game and how an alarm clock may have changed the outcome.  He explains his role as the first player representative for the CCA and shares details of the change in Brier sponsorship from Macdonald Tobacco to the Labatt Brewing Company in 1980. Harvey also gives new insight on why Brier stones during the 1970s were such a dilemma.

Anne Merklinger understands the mind of an athlete. As a swimmer she competed with the University of South Carolina and Canada's national team, a choice that delayed her curling pursuits for four years. Eventually Anne returned to Ottawa and skipped a team that would battle the best in Canada for a decade. Her rink of third Theresa Breen, second Patti McKnight and lead Audrey Frey won four Ontario Provincials, losing a semifinal (1993) and two finals ('98 and '00) at the Scotties Tournament of Hearts. Anne's career in sport management led to a role as director of Canoe Kayak Canada and then to her current position as CEO of Own the Podium, Canada's Olympic development program. We discuss the difficult losses, Ontario rivalries, the early days of the Womens Tour and the positive influence Olympians can have on Canadians.

Bob Weeks joins Kevin to discuss TSN's recent attempt to rank Canada's Greatest Curlers (35:45).  Bob explains how the process came together and they discuss the many challenges of trying to rank curlers from different eras.  Eventually they dig into the categories and compare their choices with the results.  Before talking to Bob, Kevin is joined by Mickey Duzyj, creator of the Netflix sports documentary series LOSERS.  Episode 4 is "Stone Cold", inspired by the first episode of Curling Legends Podcast. It tells the story of Pat Ryan, centered around his epic battle with Al Hackner in the 1985 Brier final. Mickey shares the origins on the series and reflects on his introduction to curling culture. You can hear Pat Ryan on Episode 1 of Curlng Legends Podcast. You can also check out Rick Lang on Episode 48 and get Don Bartlett's story of the Hackner Double in Episode 39. Be sure to get yourself a copy of "The Brier" by Bob Weeks and check out some of his other books, Hurry Hard, Curling for Dummies and Curling, Etcetera

Rick Folk was meant to throw the last rock.  His ability to focus while remaining calm under pressure worked for both golf and curling.  After coming up short in his first two Briers (1978 and '79), Rick, along with Ron Mills and the Wilson Brothers (Tom and Jim) became the first team to lift the Labatt Tankard Trophy in 1980.  Rick's focus was tested at the World Championships in Moncton, where the Labonte Curse had held Canada winless since 1972.  After moving to British Columbia, Rick won four more Purple Hearts, capturing the title and Worlds again in 1994 with Pat Ryan, Bert Gretzinger and Gerry Richard.  Rick talks about his early days in Saskatoon, the battles against Merv Mann, Harold Worth, Les Rogers and Paul Gowsell.  He shares thoughts on the first Olympic Trials of 1987 and the "boring" Brier final of 1989.  Then we dive deep into the controversies surrounding the 1993 and '94 Briers.  Rick explains how ice-makers, tie-breakers, choosing rocks and changing handles had him transforming from Bill Bixby into Lou Ferrigno.

Bob Picken had a voice for curling.  An accomplished skip who nearly won a Purple Heart at the 1963 Manitoba Provincials, Bob became widely known for his other contributions to the sport.  His distinct broadcasting sound covered many Briers and World Championships and his involvement with the CCA and the International Curling Federation helped usher in the Uniroyal World Junior Men's Championship in the early 70's.  Bob shares stories of his curling days and travelling abroad with other crew members of the Canadian curling media: Larry Wood, Scotty Harper, Don "Buckets" Flemming, Larry Tucker, Jack Matheson and "Cactus" Jack Wells, among others.  Bob passed away on January 30th, 2019.  https://passages.winnipegfreepress.com/passage-details/id-261740/PICKEN_ROBERT

Rick Lang had an awkward start with success.  His first purple heart was won as third for Bill Tetley, but he had spared for Tom Todd and the uncertainty of who would go to the Brier hung over that evening's banquet.  Rick did make the trip and their rink would win the 1975 Brier in Fredericton but fall short at the World Championships a few weeks later.  The next season Rick was back on the open market.  Eventually he teamed with Al Hackner and they found immediate success, reaching the 1980 Brier final before losing to Rick Folk. After a heartbreaking loss to Kerry Burtnyk the next season, Rick and Al, along with second Bob Nichol and lead Bruce Kennedy, finally won the Brier in 1982.  In 1985, with the new front end of Ian Tetley and Pat Perroud, Rick and Al once again reached the Brier final and faced Pat Ryan from Alberta.  Rick talks about the most famous shot in Brier history and shares stories from throughout their playing days.  We cover the Olympic Trials of 1987, the transition to coaching and Rick  explains how to react on an airplane when someone thinks you're a rock star.  

Ron Anton was the original boy wonder.  He started skipping a men's team at the age of sixteen.  With his father at third, they reached the semifinals of the Swift Current Carspiel in 1959, holding their own against the great Matt Baldwin.  Matt's third in the event, Hec Gervais, returned to skipping a year later and recruited Ron as his vice.  Joined with Ray Werner and Wally Ursuliak, they would represent Alberta at the next two Briers, winning in 1961.  Ron and Hec teamed up again in 1974, this time with Warren Hansen and Darrel Sutton, winning a second Canadian Championship.  Ron shares many stories from his time with Hector, their battles against the Richardsons and his coaching experience during the 1967 Canadian School Boys with Stan Trout and later with Team Canada at the Calgary Olympic Winter Games in 1988.

Lloyd Yerama would sooner curl than eat.  The second of 13 children, Lloyd grew up in Gilbert Plains, Manitoba, learning to curl on a unique two sheeter that had the hockey rink sandwiched in between.  It was in 1968 that Lloyd and teammates Roy Berry and Jack Yuill picked up Burke Parker as their fourth for the local zone playdowns and found themselves representing Manitoba at the Brier in Kelowna.  Lloyd shares their Cinderella story and what happened next, along with his early tutelage under 1938 and '53 Brier winner Ab Gowanlock. Before getting to Lloyd, Brain Chick joins for a quick chat about his new book "Written in Stone: A Modern History of Curling".  It's an oral history of curling's past three decades as told by forty-eight of the biggest names in the sport.  

Robin Wilson grew up a fighter.  She was active in supporting social change during the early 1970's and, after earning her business degree, applied for positions in male dominant companies. Her path eventually led to one of the greatest sponsorships in sport.  Robin met Lindsay Davie at the North Shore Winter Club while in their early teens.  Robin, her sister Dawn, Lindsay and Lorraine Bowles would eventually capture the 1976 Macdonald Lassie.  In 1979, they won again and were able to represent Canada at the first ever Women's World Curling Championship.  Robin is the Leadership Director for the Sandra Schmirler Foundation.  Visit http://www.sandraschmirler.org/english/in-their-own-words/ to read the incredible stories of babies and parents who are helped by the Foundation.  You can donate online or add a $10 donation to your cell phone bill by texting the word SANDRA to 45678.   

Pierre Charette may have been a little feisty. Regardless of his position for Team Quebec at the Brier (and he played them all) he was intensely focused on trying to win.  During a phenomenal run in the late nineties, he nearly won it all.  Teamed with Guy Hemmings and the front end of Dale Ness and Guy Thibaudeau, Pierre reached two consecutive Brier finals in 1998 and '99.  Pierre reflects on the early days, his Brier experiences, the evolution of the free guard zone and the beginning of the Grand Slams.

Ron Green grew up in the Toronto curling scene of the 1960s. After a close loss in the Ontario school boys, the opposing skip asked if he would join up the following year.  Ron would go on to curl with Paul Savage for over a decade, with three trips to the Brier and a lifetime of memories.  Ron talks about his early heartbreak, just missing out on a Purple Heart in 1969. Then he explains how the team with Paul, Bob Thomson and Ed Werenich was formed and touches on the battles they had, sometimes with their competition, and sometimes with each other.

Linda Moore was always willing to have an open mind.  After losing the Scotties final in 1986, instead of a direct entry to the first ever Olympic Trials, the Moore rink had to participate in the evaluation camp before qualifying to compete.  When told in advance they could be split up as a result, rather than battle the process they went ahead and kept a positive attitude.  The result was a gold medal at the 1988 Olympic Winter Games in Calgary.  Linda reflects on that experience and the lessons that helped get them to that moment.  We cover from Linda's early days as a junior in North Vancouver through to her years as a broadcaster with TSN. Linda shares some Ray Turnbull stories, her thoughts on shooting percentages and explains what led to her departure from the booth.  

Ian Tetley isn't afraid to give his input.  Sometimes a front-end player has to speak out before the wrong shot is called.  According to Ian, his teammates were often too quiet to speak up...so he had to.  His enthusiasm for curling began while watching father Bill win the Brier in 1975.  When he and teammate Pat Perroud got a call to join Al Hackner, he went to his first Brier, and won.  Ian went on to win three World Championships with different skips and left a legacy of double peels (often, it's been said, because he usually missed the first one). We'll discuss the early days in Thunder Bay, the famous Hackner Double in 1985, the first Canadian Olympic Trials, and tales from Toronto during his time playing for Ed Werenich and later Wayne Middaugh.