Podcast appearances and mentions of doug wilson

Robert Netzly joins Steve today on the podcast to discuss investing in a different light, the Light of the Bible. Should we as Christians be more careful with our investments, and if so, how? Here is the free tool that Robert spoke about towards the end of the video for seeing if what you're invested in is God-honoring: https://inspireinsight.com/about You can learn more about his book here: (Canonpress) https://tinyurl.com/4cwnrzeh We hope that Grounded has been a help to your walk with our Lord. in Christ, the Grounded Team

Straight White American Jesus digs into the Minnesota church protest that's been framed as “anti-Christian”—and explains why that framing collapses on contact. Brad Onishi and Dan Miller connect the dots between City's Church, ICE, Doug Wilson's theological orbit, and the ideology behind The Sin of Empathy, showing how a strain of Christian nationalism produces pastors who see no contradiction between pulpit ministry and state violence. What looks like an isolated protest turns out to be part of a much larger story about power, theology, and the weaponization of “law and order,” with unsettling links that stretch from Minneapolis to Washington, D.C. From there, the conversation widens to the ICE occupation of the Twin Cities, the general strike, and the moral backlash unfolding across religious lines—Catholic clergy, mainline Protestants, and everyday residents standing watch in subzero temperatures to protect their neighbors. Brad and Dan confront the human cost of these policies, including the detention of a five-year-old child and the warrantless arrest of a U.S. citizen, and ask what it means when empathy itself is declared a sin. The episode closes by zooming out to Davos, Trump's open flirtation with dictatorship, and what it means to live in a moment of rupture—not transition—where democracy is being tested not in speeches or elections, but in the streets. Subscribe for $5.99 a month to get bonus content most Mondays, bonus episodes every month, ad-free listening, access to the entire 1000+ episode archive, Discord access, and more: https://axismundi.supercast.com/ Linktree: https://linktr.ee/StraightWhiteJC Order Brad's book: https://bookshop.org/a/95982/9781506482163 Subscribe to Teología Sin Vergüenza Subscribe to American Exceptionalism Donate to SWAJ: https://axismundi.supercast.com/donations/new Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Watch the rest of the Doug Wilson & Friends collection on Canon+: https://canonplus.com/video-series/26878

Weight loss saving airlines money, real-time Packers commentators during Bears game, Jeremy Roenick talking about his mentor Doug Wilson, a 142-year-old man, chasing down an emu, and recreating an old-time musical sound are among the Minutiae topics discussed this week by Rick and Dave. [Ep416]

Steve caught up with Virgil Walker during the Fight Laugh Feast Conference, and the covered a multitude of topics, from Christian Nationalism, the recent funerals of some Christian heroes, to Virgil's gracious exit from his role at G3 to what he is up to now. We hope that Grounded has been a help to your walk with our Lord. in Christ, the Grounded Team

 Season 6 episode 18 rebecca  j...and therapy - 1_8_26, 10.27 AMThu, Jan 08, 2026 10:40AM • 57:28SUMMARY KEYWORDSemotional metabolization, existential threat, destabilizing changes, social media, information overload, Venezuela crisis, racial identity, colonization, anti-blackness, white privilege, immigration policies, historical context, white supremacy, interdependence, narrative controlSPEAKERSSpeaker 3, Speaker 1, Speaker 2 Jenny  00:30I think something I'm sitting with is the impossibility and the necessity of trying to metabolize what's going on in our bodies. Yeah, and it feels like this double bind where I feel like we need to do it. We need to feel rage and grief and fear and everything else that we feel, and I don't think our nervous systems have evolved to deal with this level of overwhelm and existential threat that we're experiencing, but I do believe our bodies, Yeah, need space to try to do that, yeah,yesterday, I was sitting at, I don't know what's gonna happen to people anyway, Rebecca  01:45Pretty good. I'm okay. It like everyone. I think there's just a lot of crazy like and a lot of shifting to like, things that we could normally depend on as consistent and constant are not constant anymore. And that is like, it's very, 02:11I don't even have a word I want to say, disconcerting, but that's too light. There's, it's very destabilizing to to watch things that were constants and norms just be ripped out from underneath. People on like, every day there's something new that used to be illegal and now it's legal, or vice versa. Every day there's like, this new thing, and then you're having to think, like, how is that going to impact me? Is it going to impact me? How is it going to impact the people that I care about and love? Yeah, Danielle  02:52Jenny and I were just saying, like, maybe we could talk about just what's going on in the world right now, in this moment. And Jenny, I forgot how you were saying it like you were saying that we need to give our bodies space, but we also need to find a way to metabolize it so we can take action. I'm paraphrasing, but yeah, Rebecca  03:30And I would agree, and something else that I was thinking about too is like, what do you metabolize? And how do you metabolize it? Right? Like, in terms of what's happening in Venezuela, I have people that I count very dear to me who feel like it was a very appropriate action, and and people who are very dear to me who feel like absolutely not. That's ridiculous, right? And so, and I'm aware on that particular conversation, I'm not Venezuelan. I'm not I'm very aware that I stand on the outside of that community and I'm looking in on it, going, what do I need to know in order to metabolize this? What do I not know or not understand about the people who are directly impacted by this. And so I, like, I have questions even you know about some of the stuff that I'm watching. Like, what do you metabolize and how do you come to understand it? And in a place where it's very difficult to trust your information sources and know if the source that you're you're have is reliable or accurate or or complete in it, in its detail, it feels those are reasons why, to me, it feels really hard to metabolize things i. Jenny  05:06There's this like rule or like theory thing. I wish I could remember the name of it, but it's essentially like this, this graph that falls off, and it's like, the less you know about something, the more you think you know about it, and the more confident you are. And the more you know, the less confident you are. And it just explains so well our social media moment, and people that read like one headline and then put all these reels together and things talking about it. And on one hand, I'm grateful that we live in an age where we can get information about what's going on. And at the other end, like, you know, I know there, there's somewhere, some professor that's spent 15 years researching this and being like it is. There's so much here that people don't know and understand. And yeah, it feels like the sense of urgency is on purpose. Like that we just have to like it feels like people almost need to stay up to date with everything. But then I also wonder how much of that is whiteness and this idea of like, saviorism and like, if I'm just informed, then I'm doing my duty and like what I need to do and and what does it look like to slow down and be with things that are right in front of US and immediate, without ignoring these larger, transnational and global issues. Yeah, it feels so complicated. Rebecca  06:55I do think the sense of urgency is on purpose. I think that the overwhelming flood of information at this time is not just a function of like social media, but I think, I think the release of things and the timing of things is intentional, I think, and so I think there's a lot of Let's throw this one thing in front of you, and while you everybody's paying attention to that, let's do 10 other things behind closed doors that are equally, if not more, dangerous and harmful than the thing that we're letting You see up front. And so I think some of that is intentional. So I think that that sense of almost flooding is both about social media, yes, but it's also about, I think some of this is intentional, on purpose, flooding Jenny  08:01I think it's wise to ask those questions and try to sort of be paying attention to both what is being said and what is not being said. Rebecca  08:16Yeah, it may makes me think, even as you named Venezuela like my understanding is that that happened either the day of or the day before Congress was supposed to explain why they had redacted the Epstein files, and it just the lengths that they will go to to distract from actually releasing the files and showing the truth about Trump and Epstein and everyone else that was involved is, Speaker 2  08:52well, yeah, yeah, yes. And there's something in me that also wants to say, like it what happened around Venezuela might be 09:32and its natural resources is not a small thing. And then I was reminded today by someone else, this is also not the first time this country has done that. It might be the first time it was televised to the world, but so I don't Yes on the distraction. And I agree with you times 1000 10:09hard about this moment, is that there's all this stuff that's happening that's like absolutely we would be looking at, how do you possibly put any of that in any sense of order that it makes any sense? Because, yes, the FC, I mean, it's horrific. What we're talking about is likely in those files, and if they are that intent on them not coming out, if it's worse than what we already know, that's actually scary. Danielle  10:44Yeah, I agree that this isn't new, because this is it feels like, you know, Ibram X kendi was like, talking about, hey, like, this is what I'm talking about. This is what I'm talking about. And it feels as though, when we talk, I'm just going to back up, there's been this fight over what history are we teaching, you know, like, this is dei history, or this is, you know, critical race history. But in the end, I think we actually agree on the history more than we think. We just don't disagree on where we should take it. Now, what I think is happening is that, and you hear Donald J Trump talk about the Monroe Doctrine, or Vance talk about Manifest Destiny, or Stephen Miller, these guys talk about these historical things. They're talking about the history of colonization, but from a lens of like, this was good, this was not a mistake. Quote, slavery was not necessarily a bad thing. You have like Doug Wilson and these other Christian nationalists like unapologetically saying there was slavery. It's been throughout all time. This was, quote, a benefit people, you know, you have Charlie Kirk saying, you know, in the 1940s like pre civil rights movement, quote, I think he said, quote, black people were happier. He has said these things. So in my, in my mind, yes, they, they're they're saying, like, we don't want X taught in schools. But at the same time, they actually, we actually kind of agree on history. What we don't agree on is what we should do with it, or or who's in com, who's in control. Now, I think what they're saying is, this was history. We liked it, and we don't like the change in it, and we're just gonna keep doing it. I mean, they literally have reinstated the Monroe Doctrine, which is so racist, it's like, and manifest destiny is like, so fucked up to, like, put that back in place, like Rebecca said, I'm not, I'm not negating the murder that just happened in Minneapolis, but this concept that you you can tell who's human and that these resources belong to us, the only person human in the room, then, is the White man. I don't know. Does that make sense? It Rebecca  13:24makes me think of you know, when you talk about sort of identity formation, or racial identity formation, when you are talking about members of the majority culture and their story is, is this manifest destiny? Is this colonization and and the havoc and the harm that that they engaged in against whole people groups in order to gain the power? Do they, sort of, on a human level, metabolize the their membership in that group, and what that group has done the heart the and that it's come by its power by harming other people, right? And so in order to sort of metabolize that you can minimize it and dismiss it as not harmful. So that's the story, that slavery is not a bad thing, and that black people are happier under slavery, right? You can deny it and say that it didn't happen, or if it did, it wasn't me. That's Holocaust deniers, right? That didn't happen. I think what we're looking at now is the choice that some of the powers that be are making in order to metabolize this is to just call what is evil good, to just rewrite. Not the facts, but the meaning that that we draw from those facts. And then to declare, I have the right to do this, and when I do this, it makes me more powerful, it makes me a better leader, and it establishes rules and norms about right versus wrong. I think they're rewriting the meaning making as a way to kind of come to terms with what what they've done. And so I think that statement by the Vice President about you no longer have to apologize for being white in this country is actually about more than an apology. That was that is now, a couple of weeks later, after watching what happened in Venezuela, watching what happened in Minneapolis, watching what they're doing about Greenland, you go like, that's just a statement that we're going to do whatever the heck we want, and you cannot stop us, and we will do it without apology, and we will make you believe. We will craft a narrative that what is wrong is actually right, Jenny  16:43it just, it's, it's wild to me that our last time, or two times ago that we were talking, I was talking about Viola liozo, who was the white woman who drove black people during the bus boycott and was murdered, and the what feels like is being exposed is the precarity of white privilege, like it is Real. It exists, and so long as white people stay within the bounds of what is expected of them, and Renee good did not and I think that that is it Rebecca  17:36exposes what's already true, that I think racism and race are constructs to protect the system, and so if, no matter what your melanin is, if you start to move against the system, you immediately are at risk in a different way, and yet still not in the same way. You know, like there are already plenty of people who have died and been disappeared at the hands of ice. What happened is not new. What is new is that it did happen to a white woman, and it reveals something about where we are in the fulcrum, tip, I think, of of power and what's happening? 18:30because I think the same, like you said, is true during the Civil Rights Movement, right that in there, they're really they're most of their stories we don't know. There's a handful of them that we know about these, these white the people who believe themselves to be white, to quote on history codes, who were allies and who acted on behalf of the Civil Rights Movement and who lost their life because of it. There's probably way more than we know, because, again, those are stories that are not allowed to be told. But it makes me wonder if, if the exposure that you're talking about Jenny is because we were at some sort of tipping point right, in a certain sense, by the time you elect Obama in oh eight, you could make the argument that something of racial equality is beginning to be institutionalized in the country, right? I'm not saying that he solved everything and he was this panacea, but I'm saying when the system, when the people in the system, find a way to bring equilibrium. That's the beginning of something being institutionalized, right? And, and, and did that set off this sort of mass panic in the majority culture to say that that cannot happen? Mm. Yeah, and and, so there is this backlash to make sure that it doesn't happen, right? And to the extent that it's beginning to be institutionalized, that means that some members of the majority culture have begun to agree with the institutionalism of some kind of equilibrium, some type of equity, otherwise you wouldn't see it start to seep into the system itself, right? And it means that there are people who open doors, there are people who left Windows cracked open there, you know, there are, right? I mean, somebody somewhere that had the key to the door, left it unlocked, so, so that, so that a marginalized community could find an entrance, right? And and so it does make me think about, are we? Are we looking at this sort of historical tipping point? And what's being exposed is all these people are the majority culture who are on the wrong side of this argument. We need you to get back in line. I mean, if you read ta nehisi Coates book, eight years in power, he makes a sort of similar argument that that's what happened around reconstruction, right? You have the Emancipation Proclamation being signed, slavery is now illegal in the United States, and there's this period during reconstruction where there's mass sort of accomplishment that happens in the newly freed slave community. And then you see the rise of the Ku Klux Klan and the very violent backlash. This is not going to happen. We're not. We're not. And when, when I say what happened during Reconstruction, is like again, the beginning of the institutionalizing of that kind of equilibrium and equity that came out of the Emancipation Proclamation. Right? My kids were part of a genealogy project a few years back, and one of the things that they uncovered is they have a ancestor who was elected to this 22:27and while he was in office, he was instrumental in some of the initial funding that went to Hampton to establish Hampton University, right? And so that's the kind of institutionalized equity that starts to happen in this moment, and then this massive violent backlash, the rise of the Ku Klux, Klan, the black codes. We this is not going to happen. We're not doing this right. And so it does make me wonder if what we're actually looking at the exposure that you're talking about, Jenny is like the beginning of the this sort of equilibrium that could happen when you when things start to get institutionalized and and the powers that be going No way, no How, no dice, not doing that. Danielle  23:21I think that's true, and especially among immigrant communities. I don't know if you know, at the beginning, they were saying, like, we're just going after the violent criminals, right? And this morning, I watched on a news source I really trust, a video of a Somali citizen, a US citizen, but as a Somali background, man pulled over by ice like he's an Uber driver in Minneapolis. And they like, surrounded him, and he's like, wait a minute, I thought you were going after the violent criminals. And they're like, Well, you know, like, Are you a US citizen? He's like, Well, where's your warrant? And they're like, we're checking your license plate. He's like, well, then you know who I am. And then they want him to answer, and they keep provoking and they're like, Oh, you have a video on us. And he's like, Oh, you have a GoPro. He's like, I thought you were just going after violent criminals, you know? And they're like, no, we want to know if you're a US citizen. So in a sense, you know, there was all this rhetoric at the beginning that said, we you have to do it the right way. And I remember at the very beginning feeling afraid for Luis like, oh, man, shit, we did this the right way. I don't know if that's really guarantee. I don't think that's a guarantee of any guarantee of anything. And it's not doing well paying all the bills like it's expensive to become a citizen. It is not easy. Paying all the bills, going to the fingerprints, get in the test, hiring a lawyer, making sure you did it. Like cross, all your T's dot, all your eyes, just to get there and do it. And then they're saying, you know, and then they're saying, Well, prove it. Well, what do you have on your record? Or people showing up after having done all that work? They're showing up to their swearing in to be US citizens. And they're saying, Sorry, nope. And they're like, taken by ice. So you can see what you're saying. Rebecca first, it says violent criminals. Yeah, and you know, you have to have like, an FBI fingerprint background check. You had to do this, like, 10 years ago. Whenever Luis became a citizen, that's like, serious shit, you get your background check. So by the time you're into that swearing in, they know who you are, like you're on record, they know who you are, so they've done all that work. So this is not about being a criminal. This is about there's somebody successful that's possibly not white, that has done all the right things, paid all the fees, has the paperwork, and you don't like them because they're not white. And I think that's directly related to anti blackness. Rebecca  25:40Yeah. Say more about the anti blackness, because we started this conversation talking about Somalis and and Somalis are only the latest target of ice, right? It started with people of Latino descent. So how does that for you come down to anti blackness? Oh, for me, Danielle  26:02I see it as a as a projection. I can't tolerate my feelings about, quote, people of color, but let's be more specific about black people, and I can't tolerate those feelings. And for a time, I think we were in this sliver of time where it was not quite it was still like gaining social momentum to target black folks, but it was still a little bit off limits, like we were still like, oh, it's the criminals. Oh, it's these bad, bad guys. I know it's just the Latinos or, Oh, it's just this, this and this and this. But then if you notice, you start watching these videos, you start noticing they're like, they're grabbing, like, Afro Latinos. They're like, they're like, pushing into that limit, right? Or Puerto Rican folks they've grabbed, who are US citizens? So now you see the hate very clearly moving towards black folks. Like, how does an untrained $50,000 bonus ice agent know if, quote, a black person, quote, you know, if we're talking in the racial construct, has a Somali background or not, right? Right? It actually feels a little bit to me like grooming, right? Rebecca  27:24I I've asked myself this question several times in the past couple of years, like, and if, and I think some of the stuff that I've read like about the Holocaust, similar question, right? Was like, is racism really the thing that is that is driving this or is it something else, like at the at the heart of it, at the end of the day, are you really driven by racialized hate of someone that is different than you? Or is that just the smoke screen that the architects of this moment are using because you'll fall for it, right? And so I do think like you start with the criminals, because that's socially acceptable, and then you move very quickly from the criminals to everybody in that ethnic group, right? And so you see the supreme court now saying that you can stop and frisk somebody on the basis of a surname 28:22or an accent, Rebecca  28:26right? And it feels very much like grooming, because what was socially acceptable was first this very small subset, and now we've expanded to a whole people group, and now we've jumped from one country to another, which is why I think you know MLK is quote about injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. If you're going to come for one subset, you will eventually come for everyone, until the only subset is those in power versus those that aren't. Danielle  29:05Or just, let me just ask you this question then, so you got he's enforcing immigration bans on certain countries. Guess who the where the majority of those countries are located, Africa. Now, why didn't he do that with Latin the Latin America? It's very interesting, Rebecca  29:29and my fear is that it's coming right again. It's socially acceptable in this country to be anti black. Everyone understands that, and then you move from anti black to anti everybody else. And what you say is this, this people group is closer to black than white, and for that reason, they're out too, which is also not a new argument in this country. Jenny  29:58It makes me think of someone you. To this illustration, then I will not get it probably exactly how it is, but it was basically like if I have a room of 10 people, and I need to control those 10 people, I don't need to control those 10 people. I need to make a scapegoat out of three of them, and then the other seven will be afraid to be that scapegoat. And I feel like that is a part of what's going on, where, viscerally, I think that, again, like white bodies know, like it is about race and it's not about race, like race is the justification of hatred and tyrannical control. And I really love the book by Walter Rodney, how Europe underdeveloped Africa. And he traces like what Europe, and I would include the US now has done to the continent of what is so called Africa, and it didn't in the end, that it was used to create race and racism in order to justify exploitation and of people and resources. And so it's like, yeah, I think at the end of the day, it's really not about race, and it is because of the way in which that's been used to marginalize and separate even from the construction of whiteness, was to try to keep lower socioeconomic whites from joining with formerly enslaved black people and indigenous people to revolt against the very few people that actually hold power, like there are way more people that lack power. But if, if those in power can keep everyone siloed and divided and afraid, then they get to stay in power. Danielle  32:01That's where I come back to history. And I feel like, I feel like these guys like JD Vance and Stephen Miller love our history and hate the parts of it that are leading towards liberation. For people, they love that they love the colonization. They talk about it. They've there's a fantasy. They're living in, this fantasy of what could be, of what was for one set of people, and that was white men. And they're enacting their fantasy on us in some ways, you know, I think the question of, you know, Jenny, you always deal with bodies, and, you know, you're kind of known for that shit, I think, I think, just like, but the question of, like, who has a body when, when? Like, when does the body count? You know, like, when does it matter? And it feels like that's where race becomes really useful, 33:09because it gets to say, like, you know, like, that white lady, that's not really, that's not really a murder, you know. Or, you know, George Floyd, like, Nah, that's not really it, you know, just com, and they knew there's so many other lynchings and murders. Like, we can't cover them all. I just think it's just speaks to, like, who, you know, another way to say it'd be like, who's human and who's not. Jenny  33:42And like I sent you. Danielle, there was a post yesterday that someone said, those white lives matter. People seem to be really silent right now. And it just exposes, like the the hypocrisy, even in that and the, I think, the end of not the end, because racial privilege is still there, but, but this moment is exposing something, I think, as you're naming Rebecca, like it feels like this really scary tipping, and maybe hopeful tipping, where it's like there's enough, maybe fear or grasping of power, that there's enough desperation to execute a white woman, which historically and now, I think it says something about where we are in this moment. And I don't know exactly what yet, but I think it's, it's very exposing. Rebecca  34:43Yeah, but my what floats across my mind when you say that is really what has been the narrative or trajectory for white women? Because I think if you start to pull on stories like Emmett Till. 35:01Soul, and you realize what has been done in the name of protecting white women that doesn't actually feel like protection, right, right? And so, so again, you almost have this sense of like white femininity being this pawn, right? And you and you can have this narrative that that sounds like it's protection, sounds like it's value, but really it's not right. I only pull that out and use it when it when it gives me permission to do what I really want to do, right? 35:43And so in this moment. Now, you know, I mean, Emmett Till died because he was accused of looking inappropriately at a white woman, right? More recently, that incident with the the bird watcher in Central Park, right? I mean, his freedom is is under threat because of a white woman and, and then how do we go from that to ice killing a white woman and, and what like you said? What does that actually say about the value of white women, Was it, was it ever really recognized by the powers that be, right? Or is that like a straw man that I put up so I can have permission to do whatever I want? Jenny  36:36Absolutely, yeah, I think the trope of protecting white womanhood. It's it's always given women privilege and power, but that is only in proximity to white men and performing white womanhood. And you know, as you were talking about, the rise of lynchings, it did begin after reconstruction, and it really coincided with the first movie ever shown in theaters, which was Birth of a Nation they showed, yeah, white men in blackface, sexually assaulting a white woman, and the absolute frenzy and justification that that evoked was, we're protecting our white women, which was really always about protecting racial and class privilege, not the sovereignty of the bodies of white women, Rebecca  37:33right, right? And so we're back to your original thought, that what now is exposed, you know, with what happened in Minnesota is it's not really about protecting her and she's expendable. She is, quote, a domestic terrorist 37:56now so that we can justify what we're doing, Jenny  38:15which I think subconsciously at least white bodies have always known like there is something of I am safe and I am protected and I am privileged, so long as I keep performing whiteness. Rebecca  38:39I mean, the thing that scares me about that moment is that now we've gone Danielle from the criminals to the brown skinned citizens to white women who can be reclassified and recast as Domestic Terrorists if you don't toe the line, right? They're coming for everybody, because, because now we have a new category of people that ice has permission to go after, right? And again, it reminds me, if you look back at the black codes, which, again, got established during that same time period as you're talking about Birth of a Nation, Jenny, it became illegal for black people to do a whole host of things, to congregate, to read all kinds of things, right to vote, and in some states, it became illegal for white people to assist them in accomplishing any of those tasks. I Yeah, Danielle  39:53I mean, it's just the obliteration of humanity like the. Literal like, let me any humanity that can you can connect with your neighbor on let me take that away. Let me make it illegal for you to have that human share point with your neighbor. I really, that really struck me. I think it was talking about the the Minnesota mayor saying they're trying to get you to see your neighbor as like, less than human. He's like, don't fall for it. Don't fall for it. And I agree, like, we can't fall for it. I'm mean, it's like that. I Jenny  40:45don't know if you know that famous quote from Nazi Germany that was, like, they came for the Jews. And I didn't say anything because I wasn't a Jew. They, you know? And we've seen this, and we've all grown up with this, and the fact that so many people collectively have been like, well, you know, I'm not a criminal, well, I'm not an immigrant, well, I'm not, and it's like it this beast is coming for everybody, Rebecca  41:13yeah, well, and I, you know, I think That as long as we have this notion of individualism that I only have to look out for me and mine, and it doesn't matter what happens to anyone else. That is allowed the dynamic that you're talking about Jenny is allowed to flourish and until we come to some sense of interdependence until we come to some sense of the value of the person sitting next to me, and until we come to some sense of, if it isn't well with them, it cannot possibly be well with me. That sort of sense of, Well, I'm not a criminal, I'm not a Jew, so I don't have to worry about it is gonna flourish. 42:09Yesterday, I jumped42:12on Facebook for a second, and somebody that I would consider a dear friend had a lengthy Facebook post about how in favor he was of the President's actions in Venezuela, and most of his rationale was how this person, this dictator, was such a horrible person and did all of these horrible things. And my first reaction was, like, very visceral. I don't, I can't even finish this post like, I just, I mean, this is very visceral, like, and, and I don't want to talk to you anymore, and I'm not sure that our 20 plus years of friendship is sufficient to overcome how, how viscerally I am against the viewpoint that you just articulated, and I find myself, you know, a day later, beginning to wonder, Where is there some value in his perspective as a Latino man, what, what is his experience like that, that he feels so strongly about the viewpoint that he feels? And I'm not saying that he's right. I'm saying that if we don't learn to pause for a second and try to sit in the shoes of the other person before dismissing their value as a human. We will forever be stuck in the loop that we're in, right? I don't you know, I don't know that I will change my opinion about how much as an American, I have problems with the US president, snatching another leader and stealing the resources of their country. But I'm trying to find the capacity to hear from a man of Latino descent the harm that has been done to the people of Venezuela under this dictator, right? And I have to make myself push past that visceral reaction and try to hear something of what he's saying. And I would hope that he would do the same. I. Danielle  45:06I don't have words for it. You know, it just feels so deep, like it feels like somewhere deep inside the dissonance and also the want to understand, I think we're all being called, you know, Rebecca, this moment is, you know, this government, this moment, the violence, it's, it's, it's extracting our ability to stay with people like and it's such a high cost to stay with people. And I get that, I'm not saying it isn't, but I think what you're talking about is really important. Rebecca  45:57like you said, Jenny earlier, when you were talking about like, the more you know about something, the less confident you are, right? It's like, I can name, I am not Venezuelan, right? I can name I don't even think I know anybody who's from Venezuela, and if I do, I haven't taken the time to learn that you're actually from Venezuela, right, right? And I don't know anything about the history or culture of that country or the dictator that that was taken out of power. But I have seen, I can see in my friend's Facebook post that that's, it's a very painful history that he feels very strongly about. I so mostly that makes me as a black American, pause on how, on how much I want To dismiss his perspective because it's different than mine. Jenny  47:22I yeah, it also makes me think of how we're so conditioned to think in binaries and like, can there be space to hold the impossible both and where it's like, who am I to say whether or not people feel and are liberated or not in another country? I guess time will tell to see what happens. But for those that are Venezuelan and that are celebrating the removal of Maduro like can that coexist with the dangerous precedent of kidnapping a leader of a foreign country and starting immediately to steal their resources and and how do we Do this impossible dance of holding how complex these these experiences are that we're trying to navigate Rebecca  48:29and to self declare on national TV that like you're the self appointed leader of the country until, until whenever right some arbitrary line that you have drawn that you will undoubtedly change six times. I mean the danger of that precedent. It is I don't have vocabulary for how problematic that is. Danielle  48:57I don't mean to laugh, but if you didn't believe in white supremacy before, I would be giving you a lesson, and this is how it works, and it's awesome. Jenny  49:10And like you're saying, Rebecca, like I love books are coming to me today. There's another one called How to hide an empire and it Chase. It tracks from western expansion in what is now known as the United States to imperialism in the Philippines, in Puerto Rico, like in all of these places where we have established Dominion as a nation, as an empire, and what feels new is how televised and public this is, that people are being forced to confront it, hopefully in a different way, and maybe there can be more of this collective like way to psych it. This isn't what I'm supporting, because. I think for so long, this two party system that we've been force fed has a lot of difference when it comes to internal politics in the United States, but when it comes to transnational and international politics, it's been pretty much very similar for Democrats and Republicans in terms of what our nation is willing to do to other nations that we are conditioned not to think about. And so I think there's a hope. There's a desire for a hope for me to be like, Okay, can we see these other nations as humans and what the US has always done since the beginning. Rebecca  50:45you know, there's what actually happened, and then there's the history book story that we tell about what happened, right? And it like, it like what Danielle said. It appears to me that white supremacy is just blatantly at play, right? Like they're not hiding it at all. They're literally telling you, I can walk I can walk into another country, kidnap its leader and steal its resources. And I will tell you, that's what I'm doing. I will show you video footage of me intercepting oil tankers. I right like, and I will televise the time, place and location of my meeting with all the oil executives to get the oil um and and I'd like to be able to say that that is a new moment in history, and that what feels different is that we've never been so blatant about it, but I'm not sure that's true, right? I would love to have a time machine and be able to go back in some other point in time in American history and find out what they printed on the front page of the newspaper while they were stealing Africans from Africa or all the other while they were committing genocide against all the Native American tribes and all the other places and countries and people groups that the United States has basically taken their people and their resources. And so I don't know if this is different. I don't because, because the history books that I read would suggest that it is that right, but I don't. You can't always trust the narrative that we've been taught. Right? When I think there's an African proverb but as long as history is told by the lion, it will always favor the lion. Jenny  52:55I love you. Really good to be with you. Love you. Bye. Bye. See You Bio: Jenny - Co-Host Podcast (er):I am Jenny! (She/Her) MACP, LMHCI am a Licensed Mental Health Counselor, Somatic Experiencing® Practitioner, Certified Yoga Teacher, and an Approved Supervisor in the state of Washington.I have spent over a decade researching the ways in which the body can heal from trauma through movement and connection. I have come to see that our bodies know what they need. By approaching our body with curiosity we can begin to listen to the innate wisdom our body has to teach us. And that is where the magic happens!I was raised within fundamentalist Christianity. I have been, and am still on my own journey of healing from religious trauma and religious sexual shame (as well as consistently engaging my entanglement with white saviorism). I am a white, straight, able-bodied, cis woman. I recognize the power and privilege this affords me socially, and I am committed to understanding my bias' and privilege in the work that I do. I am LGBTQIA+ affirming and actively engage critical race theory and consultation to see a better way forward that honors all bodies of various sizes, races, ability, religion, gender, and sexuality.I am immensely grateful for the teachers, healers, therapists, and friends (and of course my husband and dog!) for the healing I have been offered. I strive to pay it forward with my clients and students. Few things make me happier than seeing people live freely in their bodies from the inside out!Rebecca A. Wheeler Walston, J.D., Master of Arts in CounselingEmail: asolidfoundationcoaching@gmail.comPhone:  +1.5104686137Website: Rebuildingmyfoundation.comI have been doing story work for nearly a decade. I earned a Master of Arts in Counseling from Reformed Theological Seminary and trained in story work at The Allender Center at The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. I have served as a story facilitator and trainer at both The Allender Center and the Art of Living Counseling Center. I currently see clients for one-on-one story coaching and work as a speaker and facilitator with Hope & Anchor, an initiative of The Impact Movement, Inc., bringing the power of story work to college students.By all accounts, I should not be the person that I am today. I should not have survived the difficulties and the struggles that I have faced. At best, I should be beaten down by life‘s struggles, perhaps bitter. I should have given in and given up long ago. But I was invited to do the good work of (re)building a solid foundation. More than once in my life, I have witnessed God send someone my way at just the right moment to help me understand my own story, and to find the strength to step away from the seemingly inevitable ending of living life in defeat. More than once I have been invited and challenged to find the resilience that lies within me to overcome the difficult moment. To trust in the goodness and the power of a kind gesture. What follows is a snapshot of a pivotal invitation to trust the kindness of another in my own story. May it invite you to receive to the pivotal invitation of kindness in your own story. Listen with me…Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.Rebecca A. Wheeler Walston, J.D., Master of Arts in CounselingEmail: asolidfoundationcoaching@gmail.comPhone:  +1.5104686137Website: Rebuildingmyfoundation.comI have been doing story work for nearly a decade. I earned a Master of Arts in Counseling from Reformed Theological Seminary and trained in story work at The Allender Center at The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. I have served as a story facilitator and trainer at both The Allender Center and the Art of Living Counseling Center. I currently see clients for one-on-one story coaching and work as a speaker and facilitator with Hope & Anchor, an initiative of The Impact Movement, Inc., bringing the power of story work to college students.By all accounts, I should not be the person that I am today. I should not have survived the difficulties and the struggles that I have faced. At best, I should be beaten down by life‘s struggles, perhaps bitter. I should have given in and given up long ago. But I was invited to do the good work of (re)building a solid foundation. More than once in my life, I have witnessed God send someone my way at just the right moment to help me understand my own story, and to find the strength to step away from the seemingly inevitable ending of living life in defeat. More than once I have been invited and challenged to find the resilience that lies within me to overcome the difficult moment. To trust in the goodness and the power of a kind gesture. What follows is a snapshot of a pivotal invitation to trust the kindness of another in my own story. May it invite you to receive to the pivotal invitation of kindness in your own story. Listen with me… Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

Dr. Jared Longshore discusses with Steve the differences and some of the classically contested texts for these two persuasions of baptism. Consider following Steve's suggestion to watch both viewpoints (we have them both linked below). Watch the Paedo vs. Credo Baptism Grounded Episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwmjD2GymiY&list=PLQSjPkXroH070SqzMGSrJF-_W9tdXyGDF&index=54 And also check out Jared Longshore's 3-Part Series on why he is no longer a Baptist: https://canonplus.com/tabs/nqn/video-series/55468 Please watch and consider both viewpoints! in Christ, the Grounded team

“Spare the rod, spoil the child”—but what does that actually mean today?Pastor Doug Wilson joins me to cut through the confusion of modern parenting. We discuss what the Bible really says about correction, the meaning of “the rod,” and how discipline—including spanking—can teach obedience and point kids to Christ without fear or shame. In a culture obsessed with therapy and emotional safety, Pastor Doug explains what parents aren't being told about raising faithful, strong kids.Thank you to our sponsors!TAYLOR DUKES WELLNESS — Use code ALEXCLARK for 10% off your purchaseGEVITI — Use code ALEX to get 20% off your first purchaseJASPR — Use code ALEX for $400 offCOWBOY COLOSTRUM — Use code ALEX for 25% offOur Guest:Pastor Doug WilsonPastor Doug's Links:WEBSITEINSTAGRAMXFACEBOOK

A turning point is hitting the conservative movement, and it's tied to theology as much as it's tied to Politics. Alan Smith and Jeff Rowland lay out why Replacement Theology is showing up on big platforms, how it shapes foreign policy, and why it pushes an America-only mindset that weakens support for Israel. They also draw a clear line between healthy dialogue and the kind of compromise that erases biblical distinction between the church and Israel. This episode covers the influence of figures like Doug Wilson, the pull of libertarian isolationism, and the internal fight over who steers the movement next. The warning is simple, ditching Israel isn't a bold new idea, it's a Disaster with a long track record. Watch for the full discussion and stay tuned for the next episode as the conversation continues. Website: kingdompropheticsociety.org Daily Unplugged Podcast: smithandrowlandshow.podbean.com Listen on Amazon, Apple, or Spotify. #ReplacementTheology #Israel #ConservativePolitics #ChristianPodcast #TurningPointUSA

Crosspolitic is at AmFest 2025! We're here talking with Doug Wilson ( @blogmablog4870 ) and Seth Gruber ( @SethGruberShow ). Sign up for the FLF 2026 Holy Wars Conference for Early Bird pricing! https://tickets.flfnetwork.com/holy-wars-conference

Crosspolitic is at AmFest 2025! We're here talking with Doug Wilson ( @blogmablog4870 ) and Seth Gruber ( @SethGruberShow ). Sign up for the FLF 2026 Holy Wars Conference for Early Bird pricing! https://tickets.flfnetwork.com/holy-wars-conference

Happy Holidays! We're taking the week off from recording, so enjoy this replay about visionary leadership!!In this episode, Sharona and Boz interview Doug Wilson, principal of Avondale High School in Michigan, about his advice on implementing building-wide grading reform. This discussion touches on ways of being a visionary leader, how to move towards culture change around grades, and advice to administrators (and teachers!) on how to question our practices with an eye towards improving kids' learning. Join us for this fascinating conversation to move forward with grading reform.LinksPlease note - any books linked here are likely Amazon Associates links. Clicking on them and purchasing through them helps support the show. Thanks for your support!Materials from Doug Wilson supporting Grading Reform (Google Folder Link)Building Thinking Classrooms, by Peter LiljedahlResourcesThe Center for Grading Reform - seeking to advance education in the United States by supporting effective grading reform at all levels through conferences, educational workshops, professional development, research and scholarship, influencing public policy, and community building.The Grading Conference - an annual, online conference exploring Alternative Grading in Higher Education & K-12.Some great resources to educate yourself about Alternative Grading:The Grading for Growth BlogThe Grading ConferenceThe Intentional Academia BlogRecommended Books on Alternative Grading:Grading for Growth, by Robert Talbert and David ClarkSpecifications Grading, by Linda Nilsen

Top headlines for Tuesday, December 23, 2025In this episode, we explore the diverse Christian perspectives on Israel with insights from Rev. Douglas Wilson, examine the U.S. military's latest strikes on ISIS in Syria following the deaths of three Americans, and uncover the story of a Tennessee pastor who abruptly closed his church and failed in a bid to retain its assets.00:11 Doug Wilson rebukes 'unhinged' Candace Owens at AmFest01:05 US strikes ISIS targets in Syria after 3 Americans were killed01:58 Misconduct lawsuit against New York church dismissed02:48 Christian man threatened with arrest after sharing beliefs03:36 Pastor shuts down church without warning congregants04:23 Ex-police officer arrested for sharing meme sues sheriff05:08 Nicki Minaj says she's reignited her relationship with GodSubscribe to this PodcastApple PodcastsSpotifyOvercastFollow Us on Social Media@ChristianPost on XChristian Post on Facebook@ChristianPostIntl on InstagramSubscribe on YouTubeGet the Edifi AppDownload for iPhoneDownload for AndroidSubscribe to Our NewsletterSubscribe to the Freedom Post, delivered every Monday and ThursdayClick here to get the top headlines delivered to your inbox every morning!Links to the NewsDoug Wilson rebukes 'unhinged' Candace Owens at AmFest | PoliticsUS strikes ISIS targets in Syria after 3 Americans were killed | WorldMisconduct lawsuit against New York church dismissed | Church & MinistriesChristian man threatened with arrest after sharing beliefs | U.S.Pastor shuts down church without warning congregants | Church & MinistriesEx-police officer arrested for sharing meme sues sheriff | U.S.Nicki Minaj says she's reignited her relationship with God | Entertainment

Crosspolitic is at AmFest 2025! We're here talking with Doug Wilson ( @blogmablog4870 ) and Seth Gruber ( @SethGruberShow ). Sign up for the FLF 2026 Holy Wars Conference for Early Bird pricing! https://tickets.flfnetwork.com/holy-wars-conference

Liberty Dispatch ~ December 19, 2025In this episode of Liberty Dispatch, we celebrate episode 350 and host Andrew DeBartolo's final show with our friends Drs. Joseph Boot, Aaron Rock, Peter McCullough, Robert Malone, Lawyer John Carpay, and Pastors Doug Wilson and Alex Kloosterman. In it, we talk about Bill C-9, the conservative civil war, the “dank” Right, Christian nationalism, vaccines, and how to think Christianly about all things. For full access to all our content, including all seven of the full-length interviews for this show, become a paid subscriber at: https://ldcanada.substack.com. Opening & Intro (00:00–02:34)Welcome & Introduction (01:28–10:27)Interview 1 - Thinking Christianly ft. Rev. Dr. Joe Boot (10:271–26:22):Ezra Institute: https://www.ezrainstitute.com/;Buy Think Christianly Now!: https://ezrapress.ca/products/think-christianly-developing-an-undivided-mind;Segment 1 - Our First Show Together (26:22–42:32):“These Bills are Insane!” | Liberty Dispatch: https://rumble.com/vwv7cv-these-bills-are-insane.html;Interview 2 - Bill C-9 ft. JCCF's John Carpay (42:32–57:31):Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms (JCCF): https://www.jccf.ca/;Interview 3 - What is a Nation? ft. Rev. Alex Kloosterman (59:07–01:14:15):Alexander Kloosterman | Dominion Press: https://substack.com/profile/69829905-alexander-kloosterman?utm_source=mention;Segment 2 - Our Favourite Guest (01:14:15–01:24:33):EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW ft. JAMES COATES & TIM STEPHENS: https://rumble.com/v1wq8m0-exclusive-interview-ft.-james-coates-and-tim-stephens.html?e9s=src_v1_s%2Csrc_v1_s_o&sci=1768fbbd-2853-4f3e-aeef-964777f2db10;Interview 4 - ACIP & the Vaccine Schedule ft. Dr. Robert Malone (01:24:33–01:38:45):Dr. Robert Malone Website: https://www.rwmalonemd.com/;Interview 5 - Recovering from COVID Madness ft. Dr. Peter McCullough (01:40:48–02:00:22):Dr. Peter McCullough's Website: https://mcculloughfnd.org/Segment 3 - The Real Life Impact of Liberty Dispatch (02:00:22–02:07:53):Interview 6 - Biblical Principles for Political Practice ft. Rev. Dr. Aaron Rock (02:07:53–02:21:55):Harvest Bible Church: https://harvestbiblechurch.ca/Segment 4 - What's Next? (02:21:55–02:36:16):Interview 7 - Saving Christian Nationalism from Itself ft. Rev. Doug Wilson (02:36:16–02:53:41):Blog & Mablog: https://dougwils.com/;Canon Press: https://canonpress.com/Conclusion (02:53:41–03:16:03)Outro (03:16:03–03:16:32) SHOW SPONSORS:New Sponsor! Genesis Gold Group: https://bibleandgold.com; Invest with Rocklinc: info@rocklinc.com or call them at 905-631-546; Diversify Your Money with Bull Bitcoin: https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/dispatch; BarterPay: https://barterpay.ca/; Barter It: https://www.barterit.ca/; Get freedom from Censorious CRMS by signing up for SalesNexus: https://www.salesnexus.com/; SUBSCRIBE TO OUR SHOWS/CHANNELS:LIBERTY DISPATCH PODCAST: https://libertydispatch.podbean.com;https://rumble.com/LDshow; CONTACT US: libertydispatch@pm.me STAY UP-TO-DATE ON ALL THINGS LD:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/liberty_dispatch/; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LibertyDispatchCanada; X: @LDCanada - https://x.com/_LDCanada; Rumble: https://rumble.com/LDshow; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@libertydispatch Please LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, RATE, & REVIEW, and SHARE it with others!

Liberty Dispatch ~ December 19, 2025 In this episode of Liberty Dispatch, we celebrate episode 350 and host Andrew DeBartolo's final show with our friends Drs. Joseph Boot, Aaron Rock, Peter McCullough, Robert Malone, Lawyer John Carpay, and Pastors Doug Wilson and Alex Kloosterman. In it, we talk about Bill C-9, the conservative civil war, the “dank” Right, Christian nationalism, vaccines, and how to think Christianly about all things. For full access to all our content, including all seven of the full-length interviews for this show, become a paid subscriber at: https://ldcanada.substack.com. Opening & Intro (00:00–02:34) Welcome & Introduction (01:28–10:27) Interview 1 - Thinking Christianly ft. Rev. Dr. Joe Boot (10:271–26:22): Ezra Institute: https://www.ezrainstitute.com/; Buy Think Christianly Now!: https://ezrapress.ca/products/think-christianly-developing-an-undivided-mind; Segment 1 - Our First Show Together (26:22–42:32): “These Bills are Insane!” | Liberty Dispatch: https://rumble.com/vwv7cv-these-bills-are-insane.html; Interview 2 - Bill C-9 ft. JCCF's John Carpay (42:32–57:31): Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms (JCCF): https://www.jccf.ca/; Interview 3 - What is a Nation? ft. Rev. Alex Kloosterman (59:07–01:14:15): https://substack.com/profile/69829905-alexander-kloosterman?utm_source=mention; Segment 2 - Our Favourite Guest (01:14:15–01:24:33): EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW ft. JAMES COATES & TIM STEPHENS: https://rumble.com/v1wq8m0-exclusive-interview-ft.-james-coates-and-tim-stephens.html?e9s=src_v1_s%2Csrc_v1_s_o&sci=1768fbbd-2853-4f3e-aeef-964777f2db10; Interview 4 - ACIP & the Vaccine Schedule ft. Dr. Robert Malone (01:24:33–01:38:45): Dr. Robert Malone Website: https://www.rwmalonemd.com/; Interview 5 - Recovering from COVID Madness ft. Dr. Peter McCullough (01:40:48–02:00:22): Dr. Peter McCullough's Website: https://mcculloughfnd.org/ Segment 3 - The Real Life Impact of Liberty Dispatch (02:00:22–02:07:53): Interview 6 - Biblical Principles for Political Practice ft. Rev. Dr. Aaron Rock (02:07:53–02:21:55): Harvest Bible Church: https://harvestbiblechurch.ca/ Segment 4 - What's Next? (02:21:55–02:36:16): Interview 7 - Saving Christian Nationalism from Itself ft. Rev. Doug Wilson (02:36:16–02:53:41): Blog & Mablog: https://dougwils.com/; Canon Press: https://canonpress.com/ Conclusion (02:53:41–03:16:03) Outro (03:16:03–03:16:32) SHOW SPONSORS: New Sponsor! Genesis Gold Group: https://bibleandgold.com; Invest with Rocklinc: info@rocklinc.com or call them at 905-631-546; Diversify Your Money with Bull Bitcoin: https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/dispatch; BarterPay: https://barterpay.ca/; Barter It: https://www.barterit.ca/; Get freedom from Censorious CRMS by signing up for SalesNexus: https://www.salesnexus.com/; SUBSCRIBE TO OUR SHOWS/CHANNELS: LIBERTY DISPATCH PODCAST: https://libertydispatch.podbean.com; https://rumble.com/LDshow; CONTACT US: libertydispatch@pm.me STAY UP-TO-DATE ON ALL THINGS LD: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/liberty_dispatch/; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LibertyDispatchCanada; X: @LDCanada - https://x.com/_LDCanada; Rumble: https://rumble.com/LDshow; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@libertydispatch Please LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, RATE, & REVIEW, and SHARE it with others!

Liberty Dispatch ~ December 19, 2025In this episode of Liberty Dispatch, we celebrate episode 350 and host Andrew DeBartolo's final show with our friends Drs. Joseph Boot, Aaron Rock, Peter McCullough, Robert Malone, Lawyer John Carpay, and Pastors Doug Wilson and Alex Kloosterman. In it, we talk about Bill C-9, the conservative civil war, the “dank” Right, Christian nationalism, vaccines, and how to think Christianly about all things. For full access to all our content, including all seven of the full-length interviews for this show, become a paid subscriber at: https://ldcanada.substack.com. Opening & Intro (00:00–02:34)Welcome & Introduction (01:28–10:27)Interview 1 - Thinking Christianly ft. Rev. Dr. Joe Boot (10:271–26:22):Ezra Institute: https://www.ezrainstitute.com/;Buy Think Christianly Now!: https://ezrapress.ca/products/think-christianly-developing-an-undivided-mind;Segment 1 - Our First Show Together (26:22–42:32):“These Bills are Insane!” | Liberty Dispatch: https://rumble.com/vwv7cv-these-bills-are-insane.html;Interview 2 - Bill C-9 ft. JCCF's John Carpay (42:32–57:31):Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms (JCCF): https://www.jccf.ca/;Interview 3 - What is a Nation? ft. Rev. Alex Kloosterman (59:07–01:14:15):Alexander Kloosterman | Dominion Press: https://substack.com/profile/69829905-alexander-kloosterman?utm_source=mention;Segment 2 - Our Favourite Guest (01:14:15–01:24:33):EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW ft. JAMES COATES & TIM STEPHENS: https://rumble.com/v1wq8m0-exclusive-interview-ft.-james-coates-and-tim-stephens.html?e9s=src_v1_s%2Csrc_v1_s_o&sci=1768fbbd-2853-4f3e-aeef-964777f2db10;Interview 4 - ACIP & the Vaccine Schedule ft. Dr. Robert Malone (01:24:33–01:38:45):Dr. Robert Malone Website: https://www.rwmalonemd.com/;Interview 5 - Recovering from COVID Madness ft. Dr. Peter McCullough (01:40:48–02:00:22):Dr. Peter McCullough's Website: https://mcculloughfnd.org/Segment 3 - The Real Life Impact of Liberty Dispatch (02:00:22–02:07:53):Interview 6 - Biblical Principles for Political Practice ft. Rev. Dr. Aaron Rock (02:07:53–02:21:55):Harvest Bible Church: https://harvestbiblechurch.ca/Segment 4 - What's Next? (02:21:55–02:36:16):Interview 7 - Saving Christian Nationalism from Itself ft. Rev. Doug Wilson (02:36:16–02:53:41):Blog & Mablog: https://dougwils.com/;Canon Press: https://canonpress.com/Conclusion (02:53:41–03:16:03)Outro (03:16:03–03:16:32) SHOW SPONSORS:New Sponsor! Genesis Gold Group: https://bibleandgold.com; Invest with Rocklinc: info@rocklinc.com or call them at 905-631-546; Diversify Your Money with Bull Bitcoin: https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/dispatch; BarterPay: https://barterpay.ca/; Barter It: https://www.barterit.ca/; Get freedom from Censorious CRMS by signing up for SalesNexus: https://www.salesnexus.com/; SUBSCRIBE TO OUR SHOWS/CHANNELS:LIBERTY DISPATCH PODCAST: https://libertydispatch.podbean.com;https://rumble.com/LDshow; CONTACT US: libertydispatch@pm.me STAY UP-TO-DATE ON ALL THINGS LD:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/liberty_dispatch/; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LibertyDispatchCanada; X: @LDCanada - https://x.com/_LDCanada; Rumble: https://rumble.com/LDshow; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@libertydispatch Please LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, RATE, & REVIEW, and SHARE it with others!

Daniel and Jack pick through Sam Harris' disgracefully friendly interview with right-wing fundamentalist and Hegseth-inspirer, Christian Nationalist pastor Doug Wilson. Content Warnings Episode Notes: Harris's release of his interview with Wilson: https://youtu.be/kRQ6Tcw9maM?si=hQEOhfyk_V7jMoyS Note: At one point in our episode, Daniel states that Wilson also posted the interview with Harris on his own channel, and this seems to be a mistake.  Oops. Harris' response to his interview with Wilson: https://youtu.be/3qjNXaKjcc8?si=D_9Gkbq7PXKO7wnQ Wilson's response to the interview on his own channel: https://youtu.be/AWgWkZjbYRw?si=2KuiQcvoiVrSal08 Behind the Bastards episodes on the Hegseth book: https://youtu.be/FUU8NTFHCvk?si=ZCjOM6Mjtp1X9dPy & https://youtu.be/1HKE8cBYokY?si=1QrNOJZWcKvcq-mR  Fundie Fridays episode on Doug Wilson: https://youtu.be/6dhaNeJ9UDw?si=y_CcsEb2Dc0rR8QG Texas 'sodomy' case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas Show Notes: Please consider donating to help us make the show and stay ad-free and independent.  Patrons get exclusive access to at least one full extra episode a month plus all backer-only back-episodes. Daniel's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/danielharper/posts Jack's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=4196618&fan_landing=true IDSG Twitter: https://twitter.com/idsgpod Daniel's Twitter: @danieleharper Jack's (Locked) Twitter: @_Jack_Graham_ Jack's Bluesky: @timescarcass.bsky.social Daniel's Bluesky: @danielharper.bsky.social IDSG on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-dont-speak-german/id1449848509?ls=1

Coinbase Asset Management's hashrate loans allow miners to borrow against their entire mining facility. Subscribe to the Blockspace newsletter! Welcome back to The Mining Pod! Today, Doug Wilson, Head of Credit Investments at Coinbase Asset Management (CBAM), joins us to talk about their new hashrate backed loans and how they differ from traditional loans for Bitcoin miners. Doug breaks down CBAM's flexible collateral package, which allows miners to post their facilities and bitcoin as collateral. We also discuss the broader capital markets for crypto, the impact of institutionalization and ETFs, the importance of regulatory and tax clarity, and the untapped potential of the stablecoin economy to drive efficiency in payments and finance. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com **Notes:** * LTV typically 50-70% for Bitcoin loans * Up to 50% hash rate collateral * Coinbase Asset Management registered Q1 2023 * Coinbase is a wholly owned subsidiary * Bitcoin mining is a commodity industry with commodity margins Timestamps: 00:00:00  Start 00:02:37  What does CBAM do? 00:03:26  Hashrate Loans 00:06:25  Hashrate definition 00:08:25  Bitcoin industry stigma 00:10:25  Data centers as collateral? 00:12:44  Current & future state of lending 00:14:44  Rates & specifics 00:18:49  Target clients 00:20:08  Retail loans 00:22:07  DeFi? 00:24:30  Competition from TradFi 00:25:56  Stablecoins 00:28:03  Future of stablecoins? 00:28:41  Regulations 00:31:16  Future of capital markets products? 00:32:49  Taxes

Subscribe to the Blockspace newsletter! Welcome back to The Mining Pod! Today, Doug Wilson, Head of Credit Investments at Coinbase Asset Management (CBAM), joins us to talk about their new hashrate backed loans and how they differ from traditional loans for Bitcoin miners. Doug breaks down CBAM's flexible collateral package, which allows miners to post their facilities and bitcoin as collateral. We also discuss the broader capital markets for crypto, the impact of institutionalization and ETFs, the importance of regulatory and tax clarity, and the untapped potential of the stablecoin economy to drive efficiency in payments and finance. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com **Notes:** * LTV typically 50-70% for Bitcoin loans * Up to 50% hash rate collateral * Coinbase Asset Management registered Q1 2023 * Coinbase is a wholly owned subsidiary * Bitcoin mining is a commodity industry with commodity margins Timestamps: 00:00:00  Start 00:02:37  What does CBAM do? 00:03:26  Hashrate Loans 00:06:25  Hashrate definition 00:08:25  Bitcoin industry stigma 00:10:25  Data centers as collateral? 00:12:44  Current & future state of lending 00:14:44  Rates & specifics 00:18:49  Target clients 00:20:08  Retail loans 00:22:07  DeFi? 00:24:30  Competition from TradFi 00:25:56  Stablecoins 00:28:03  Future of stablecoins? 00:28:41  Regulations 00:31:16  Future of capital markets products? 00:32:49  Taxes

In this episode, I sit down to review a video by Doug Wilson on singleness, celibacy, marriage, pornography, and God's purpose for you as a young believer in Jesus Christ. To access the sources for this episode, visit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB0LPjO9gC0https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/books/singleness-as-affliction-2.htmlTo become a subscriber of this podcast, visit:⁠⁠https://anchor.fm/seth-hensley/subscribe⁠

FOREVER is the new sponsor of Stories from Real Life. Please visit their site here.Episode Summary: In this powerful conversation, “The Judas Effect” author Amy Hawk shares her deeply personal journey of faith, identity, and finding her voice in the conversation around Christian Nationalism. Amy opens up about the emotional and relational cost of confronting harmful ideologies within the church. Together, we explore how patriotism, politics, and faith became entangled — and we name names, like Charlie Kirk, Doug Wilson, Joel Webbon, and Megan Basham.Topics Covered:* Amy's early faith formation* The turning point that sparked her awareness* What Christian Nationalism actually is* Why it resonates so strongly in churches today* The personal cost of speaking out* Who are Doug Wilson and Joel Webbon* How the gospel gets distorted* The path toward hope and healingWho This Episode Is For:People navigating questions of faith, politics, identity, and courage.Anyone raised in the church who feels the tension of this moment.Resources Mentioned:Amy's website Podcast Sponsor FOREVER Get full access to Melvin E. Edwards at storiesfromreallife.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode, I sit down to review a video by Doug Wilson on singleness, celibacy, marriage, pornography, and God's purpose for you as a young believer in Jesus Christ. To access the sources for this episode, visit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB0LPjO9gC0https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/books/singleness-as-affliction-2.htmlTo become a subscriber of this podcast, visit:⁠⁠https://anchor.fm/seth-hensley/subscribe⁠

In this powerful conversation, Tia Levings shares the harrowing true story behind her memoir A Well-Trained Wife—how she was groomed in a fundamentalist evangelical church, survived church-sanctioned domestic abuse, and made a midnight escape from a violent marriage. Joined by Amy Hawk and Pat Kahnke, Tia describes how Bill Gothard's teachings, Doug Wilson's Christian patriarchy movement, and the toxic promises of evangelical purity culture shaped her life. From megachurch culture to cult-like control, she unpacks the spiritual manipulation that left her without a sense of self—and the long journey of reclaiming her voice. If you've experienced religious trauma, domestic violence, or the disillusionment of high-control Christianity, this interview offers both a mirror and a lifeline.

Doug Wilson (Postmillennialism) and Keith Foskey (Amillennialism) have a friendly debate of eschatology. (originally aired in 2023)

Doug Wilson (Postmillennialism) and Keith Foskey (Amillennialism) have a friendly debate of eschatology. (originally aired in 2023)Watch all of our videos and subscribe to our channel for the latest content >HereHere

Doug Wilson (Postmillennialism) and Keith Foskey (Amillennialism) have a friendly debate of eschatology. (originally aired in 2023)

Send us a text This week Greg sat down with Doug Wilson. Doug is a Pastor, Writer, and Theologian. They discussed the biblical boundaries for sarcasm and the serrated edge, practical advancements post-millennials can look to in the last 50 years, how pastors with large ministries deal with scrutiny and time management, and of course the 19th Amendment. Enjoy! Click HERE for your free consultation with Dominion Wealth Strategists Click HERE for the best cigars 1689 Cigars has to offer! Click HERE for your complete seating and furnishing needs from K&K Furnishing Covenant Real Estate: "Confidence from Contract to Close" Facebook: Dead Men Walking PodcastYoutube: Dead Men Walking PodcastInstagram: @DeadMenWalkingPodcastTwitter X: @RealDMWPodcastExclusive Content: PubTV AppSupport the show Get your free consultation with Dominion Wealth Strategists today! The only distinctly reformed wealth company! CLICK HERE! 1689 Cigars: The absolute best cigars on earth! Check out out the Dead Men Walking snarky merch HERE! Build something for God's glory through Covenant Real Estate! Greg Moore Jr. can help you buy, sell, and invest! Call him at (734) 731-GREG or visit www.covenant.realestate

Send us a textThis week Greg sat down with Doug Wilson. Doug is a Pastor, Writer, and Theologian. They discussed the biblical boundaries for sarcasm and the serrated edge, practical advancements post-millennials can look to in the last 50 years,  how pastors with large ministries deal with scrutiny and time management, and of course the 19th Amendment. Enjoy! Click HERE for your free consultation with Dominion Wealth Strategists Click HERE for the best cigars 1689 Cigars has to offer! Click HERE for your complete seating and furnishing needs from K&K Furnishing Covenant Real Estate: "Confidence from Contract to Close" Facebook: Dead Men Walking PodcastYoutube: Dead Men Walking PodcastInstagram: @DeadMenWalkingPodcastTwitter X: @RealDMWPodcastExclusive Content: PubTV App

Send us a text This week Greg sat down with Doug Wilson. Doug is a Pastor, Writer, and Theologian. They discussed the biblical boundaries for sarcasm and the serrated edge, practical advancements post-millennials can look to in the last 50 years, how pastors with large ministries deal with scrutiny and time management, and of course the 19th Amendment. Enjoy! Click HERE for your free consultation with Dominion Wealth Strategists Click HERE for the best cigars 1689 Cigars has to offer! Click HERE for your complete seating and furnishing needs from K&K Furnishing Covenant Real Estate: "Confidence from Contract to Close" Facebook: Dead Men Walking PodcastYoutube: Dead Men Walking PodcastInstagram: @DeadMenWalkingPodcastTwitter X: @RealDMWPodcastExclusive Content: PubTV AppSupport the show Get your free consultation with Dominion Wealth Strategists today! The only distinctly reformed wealth company! CLICK HERE! 1689 Cigars: The absolute best cigars on earth! Check out out the Dead Men Walking snarky merch HERE! Build something for God's glory through Covenant Real Estate! Greg Moore Jr. can help you buy, sell, and invest! Call him at (734) 731-GREG or visit www.covenant.realestate

Sam Harris recently had Doug Wilson on his podcast where he brought up 2 "kill shots" against Christianity. One is women's right to vote. The other is slavery. While I think Doug did a decent job explaining household voting as a reasonable and ideal alternative to our current voting system, he left a LOT to be desired in his defence of Biblical slavery. The first conversation is good, and something we've talked about here at Family Teams, so I hope you'll watch it and get a sense of why household voting could work. But the second one is very important. Not because it's culturally relevant today, necessarily, but because so many atheists and libertarians think that there's a glaring moral hole in the Bible as it relates to slavery. We MUST be able to defend how the Bible talks about slavery, and I give my version of what I think Doug should have said here. On this episode, we talk about: 0:00 Intro 1:43 Doug Wilson responds to whether women should vote 13:16 Boomers and individualism 17:28 How to think about slavery as Christians 36:54 The only abolitionists were Christians Subscribe on Substack ➡️ https://jeremypryor.substack.com Follow Jeremy on: Instagram: https://instagram.com/jeremympryor/ X: https://x.com/jeremympryor Resources Mentioned: Sam Harris & Doug Wilson Full Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRQ6Tcw9maM JOIN THE FAMILY TEAMS ACCELERATOR: https://familyteams.com/accelerator --- Welcome to Jeremy Pryor's Podcast, or what I like to call, "Jeremy Pryor Unfiltered." We are excited to bring you seasons of content all the way from Tolkien to Theology, from Business to Family. If you like to contemplate deep philosophical ideas across a wide range of topics, you've come to the right place. Make sure to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube so you don't miss out on future episodes!

Each week, we answer questions sent in to us at http://www.KeithFoskey.com as well as interact with live comments. Come join the fun!Questions and Timestamps:Follow-Up for Lectio Divina 16:19Thoughts on Sam Renihan's Public Confession 21:20Was Jesus an Illegal Immigrant? 29:17How to Harmonize the Gospel Records? 36:35Why do Pastors avoid politics? 45:45How should parents manage their kids video games? 53:05Are role playing games like D&D sinful? 1:00:00How to support a younger pastor 1:09:32Question about Federal Vision and Doug Wilson's Theology 1:17:12Should a woman read scripture and pray in worship? 1:37:15Can a woman hold a pastoral title and be acceptable? 1:37:15Does the letter to Smyrna refer to all Jews in general? 1:55:14Understanding the Law Gospel Distinction 1:59:57Question about struggling with sexual sin 2:06:00Two questions about self defense and the use of deadly force 2:12:10Followup On Christian Anarchy 2:18:15What do I think about caning? 2:24:25Support the Show: http://www.buymeacoffee.com/Yourcalvinisthttps://www.TinyBibles.comYou can get the smallest Bible available on the market, which can be used for all kinds of purposes, by visiting TinyBibles.com and when you buy, use the coupon code KEITH for a discount.Love Coffee? Want the Best? Get a free bag of Squirrelly Joe's Coffee by clicking on this link: https://www.Squirrellyjoes.com/yourcalvinistor use coupon code "Keith" for 20% off anything in the storeDominion Wealth Strategies Visit them at https://www.dominionwealthstrategists.comhttp://www.Reformed.Moneyand let them know we sent you! https://www.HighCallingFitness.comHealth, training, and nutrition coaching all delivered to you online by confessionally reformed bodybuilders and strength athletes.Visit us at https://www.KeithFoskey.comIf you need a great website, check out https://www.fellowshipstudios.com

​ @InterestingTimesNYT  Christian Nationalism vs Clown World | Interesting Times with Ross Douthat https://youtu.be/WAYWbbSeIhE?si=JpYiT_PnOce0iP07   @samharrisorg  Sam Harris & Christian Nationalist Doug Wilson FULL EPISODE (443) https://youtu.be/kRQ6Tcw9maM?si=YCLDepysQD6Ev_CL   @TowardCRCCanada  Shiao Chong, "God With Us: A Christianity Canada Needs", Keynote, All Canada Church Summit, 2025 https://youtu.be/-oT_zZn7UJY?si=Mke--q4tgH-E5xyi   @EducatingForLiberty  The Case for Techno-Optimism? | Project Cosmos EP:03 https://youtu.be/WlO6S6oesac?si=fOuysPquVAUpfIti    https://www.livingstonescrc.com/give Register for the Estuary/Cleanup Weekend https://lscrc.elvanto.net/form/94f5e542-facc-4764-9883-442f982df447 Paul Vander Klay clips channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX0jIcadtoxELSwehCh5QTg https://www.meetup.com/sacramento-estuary/ My Substack https://paulvanderklay.substack.com/ Bridges of meaning https://discord.gg/Cu5GvywY Estuary Hub Link https://www.estuaryhub.com/ There is a video version of this podcast on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/paulvanderklay To listen to this on ITunes https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/paul-vanderklays-podcast/id1394314333  If you need the RSS feed for your podcast player https://paulvanderklay.podbean.com/feed/  All Amazon links here are part of the Amazon Affiliate Program. Amazon pays me a small commission at no additional cost to you if you buy through one of the product links here. This is is one (free to you) way to support my videos.  https://paypal.me/paulvanderklay Blockchain backup on Lbry https://odysee.com/@paulvanderklay https://www.patreon.com/paulvanderklay Paul's Church Content at Living Stones Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh7bdktIALZ9Nq41oVCvW-A To support Paul's work by supporting his church give here. https://tithe.ly/give?c=2160640 https://www.livingstonescrc.com/give

For those watching on Youtube, there are some technical glitches in the video, but the audio is mostly fine. Jeremy's microphone settings weren't in the right place, so there's some noticeable clipping. Also, Jeremy's voice was not in the best shape during this recording. But we trust everything will be alright! In this episode, Jeremy responds to a recent promo video for a discussion between Doug Wilson and Gary Demar on the subject of eschatology. Jeremy takes the opportunity to launch into a bit of a Bible study about one item in particular that is brought up as a main point in the video: the Christian's future judgment. For more discussion on this topic, see the article written by Jason Bradfield over at reformation.blog: https://www.reformation.blog/p/darrens-surprise-garys-shrug-and Do Theology is part of Foundations Media. Learn more at https://foundationsmedia.org https://dotheology.com https://store.dotheology.com https://www.buymeacoffee.com/DoTheology Contact Us: show@dotheology.com https://twitter.com/dotheology https://facebook.com/dotheology Subscribe to the podcast: https://linktr.ee/DoTheology 0:00 Introduction 1:30 Preterism 3:30 Context of the Video 7:13 Confusion about Judgment 17:46 Confusion about Timing 21:19 Confusion about the Day 25:17 Romans 14 28:43 Second Corinthians 5 33:44 First Corinthians 4 38:35 Revelation 19 43:41 First Corinthians 3 51:23 John 14 55:10 Uniqueness of the Pre-Trib View 1:02:46 Conclusion #Theology #Podcast #EndTimes #Eschatology #Judgment

Alan Smith and Jeff Rowland react to a recent conversation between Doug Wilson and atheist Sam Harris and talk through the fallout for modern evangelicalism. They compare Wilson's claim to be an “Absolutist” rather than a “Literalist,” tackle questions about inerrancy, inspiration, and who really wrote Scripture, and explain why your view of the Bible reshapes everything from the Rapture to Eschatology, Christian Nationalism, and Politics. If you hunger for clear, plain teaching on God's word, this episode is for you. Share your thoughts in the comments and let us know if you see the Bible as God's own words or a mix of divine and human opinion. Website: kingdompropheticsociety.org Daily Podcast: smithandrowlandshow.podbean.com #SmithAndRowlandShow #DougWilson #ChristianNationalism #BibleTeaching #Eschatology

Doug Wilson scores the opportunity to be on Sam Harris' podcast, getting an opportunity to address Sam's audience with the gospel. Does he know his audience? Does he make good use of it?   @samharrisorg  Sam Harris & Christian Nationalist Doug Wilson https://youtu.be/m1xxzRG_hms?si=47Y_dVi2h8j4_17N    https://www.livingstonescrc.com/give Register for the Estuary/Cleanup Weekend https://lscrc.elvanto.net/form/94f5e542-facc-4764-9883-442f982df447 Paul Vander Klay clips channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX0jIcadtoxELSwehCh5QTg https://www.meetup.com/sacramento-estuary/ My Substack https://paulvanderklay.substack.com/ Bridges of meaning https://discord.gg/Cu5GvywY Estuary Hub Link https://www.estuaryhub.com/ There is a video version of this podcast on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/paulvanderklay To listen to this on ITunes https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/paul-vanderklays-podcast/id1394314333  If you need the RSS feed for your podcast player https://paulvanderklay.podbean.com/feed/  All Amazon links here are part of the Amazon Affiliate Program. Amazon pays me a small commission at no additional cost to you if you buy through one of the product links here. This is is one (free to you) way to support my videos.  https://paypal.me/paulvanderklay Blockchain backup on Lbry https://odysee.com/@paulvanderklay https://www.patreon.com/paulvanderklay Paul's Church Content at Living Stones Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh7bdktIALZ9Nq41oVCvW-A To support Paul's work by supporting his church give here. https://tithe.ly/give?c=2160640 https://www.livingstonescrc.com/give

In this illuminating episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse and Tony explore Jesus' parables of the mustard seed and leaven found in Matthew 13. These seemingly simple parables reveal profound truths about God's kingdom—how it begins imperceptibly, grows irresistibly, and transforms completely. The hosts delve into what these parables teach us about God's sovereign work in both our individual spiritual lives and the broader advance of His kingdom in the world. Believers can find hope in understanding that God intentionally works through what appears weak and insignificant to accomplish His purposes. This episode offers practical encouragement for Christians who may feel discouraged by the apparent smallness of their faith or ministry impact. Key Takeaways The kingdom of heaven begins in small, hidden, or seemingly insignificant ways, but grows powerfully through God's sovereign work. The mustard seed illustrates the kingdom's visible expansion (extensive growth), while the leaven highlights its internal transformative influence (intensive growth). Both parables emphasize that God's kingdom often appears to "disappear" initially but produces outsized results through His work, not our own. These parables provide encouragement for times when the church feels weak or our personal faith feels insufficient—God's power is made perfect in weakness. God's kingdom transforms both outwardly (extensive growth illustrated by the mustard seed) and inwardly (intensive growth shown by the leaven). Cultural transformation happens most effectively through ordinary Christian faithfulness rather than flashy or provocative engagement. Christians should not despise small beginnings, recognizing that faithfulness rather than visibility is the true measure of fruitfulness. Understanding Kingdom Growth: From Imperceptible to Unstoppable The parables of the mustard seed and leaven powerfully illustrate the paradoxical nature of God's kingdom. In both cases, something tiny and seemingly insignificant produces results far beyond what anyone would expect. As Tony noted in the discussion, what's critical is understanding the full comparison Jesus makes—the kingdom isn't simply like a seed or leaven in isolation, but like the entire process of planting and growth. Both parables involve something that initially "disappears" from sight (the seed buried in soil, the leaven mixed into dough) before producing its effect. This reflects the upside-down nature of God's kingdom work, where what appears weak becomes the channel of divine power. For first-century Jewish listeners expecting a triumphant, militaristic Messiah, Jesus' description of the kingdom as beginning small would have seemed offensive or disappointing. Yet this is precisely God's pattern—beginning with what appears weak to demonstrate His sovereign power. This same pattern is evident in the incarnation itself, where God's kingdom arrived not through military conquest but through a humble birth and ultimately through the cross. Finding Hope When Faith Feels Small One of the most practical applications from these parables is the encouragement they offer when we feel our faith is insufficient or when the church appears weak. As Jesse noted, "God is always working. Even when we don't feel or see that He is, He's always working." The kingdom of God advances not through human strength or visibility but through God's sovereign work. These parables remind us that spiritual growth often happens imperceptibly—like bread rising or a seed growing. We may go through seasons where our spiritual life feels dry or stagnant, yet God continues His sanctifying work. Just as a baker must be patient while bread rises, we must trust the invisible work of the Holy Spirit in our lives and in the church. When we feel discouraged by apparent lack of progress, these parables assure us that God's kingdom—both in our hearts and in the world—is advancing according to His perfect timing and plan. As Tony explained, "The fact that it feels and looks and may actually be very small does not rob it of its power...in actuality that smallness is its power." God deliberately works through weakness to display His glory, making these parables powerful reminders for believers in any era who may feel their impact is too small to matter. Memorable Quotes "We shouldn't despise small beginnings. Let's not despise whatever it is that you're doing in service to God, to your family, to your churches, especially in the proclamation of the gospel... Faithfulness and not visibility—that's the measure of fruitfulness." — Jesse Schwamb "The Kingdom of Heaven is at work not only in our midst as a corporate body, but in each of us as well. God's grace and His special providence and His spirit of sanctification, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of holiness and the one who makes us holy. He is doing that whether it feels like it or not, whether we see outward progress or not." — Tony Arsenal "What cultural transformation looks like is a man who gets married and loves his wife well, serves her and sacrifices for her, and makes a bunch of babies and brings them to church... We transform culture by being honest, having integrity, by working hard... without a lot of fanfare, without seeking a lot of accolades." — Tony Arsenal Full Transcript Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 468 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse. Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother. Jesse Schwamb: Hey, brother, you and I have said it over and over again. One of the incredible truths that the Bible conveys about the kingdom of God is that it's inaugurated in weakness. It's hidden. It advances irresistibly by the sovereign work of God through the Word and the Spirit. It transforms both individuals and nations until Christ's reign is fully revealed in glory. And so as we're about to talk about parables today, I can't help but think if that's one of the central positions of the Bible, and I think we both say it is how would you communicate that? And here we find Jesus, the son of God, our great savior, you know where he goes. He goes, mustard seeds and yeast. So that's what we're gonna talk about today. And if you're just joining us maybe for the first time or you're jumping into this little series, which is to say, we do know tiny series, this long series on parables, you, I go back to the last episode, which is kind of a two-parter because Tony and I tried this experiment where we basically each separately recorded our own thoughts and conversation, almost an inner monologue as we digested each of those parables, both the one of the mustard seed and then the leaven sequentially and separately. And now we're coming together in this episode to kind of talk about it together and to see what we thought of the individual work and to bring it all together in this grand conversation about the kingdom of God that's inaugurated and weakness and hiddenness. [00:02:31] Affirmations and Denials Explained Jesse Schwamb: So that's this episode, but it wouldn't be a episode without a little affirming. And a little denying it seems, 22, we should this, every now and again we pause to say why we do the affirmations and denials. Why, why do we do this? What, what is this whole thing? Why are we bringing it into our little conversation every time? Tony Arsenal: Yeah. I mean, it, it, at its core, it's kind of like a recommendation or an anti recommendation segment. We take something that we like or we don't like and we spend a little bit of time talking about it. Usually it ends up taking a little bit of a theological bent just 'cause that's who we are and that's what we do. And we use the language of affirmations and denials, uh, because that's classic, like reformed confessional language. Right? If you look at something like the, um. I dunno, like the Chicago statement on Biblical and Errancy, which was primarily written by RC sprawl, um, it usually has a, a statement, uh, of doctrine in the form of things that we affirm and things that we deny. Um, or you look at someone like Turin, a lot of times in his, uh, institutes of elected theology. He'll have something like, we affirm this with the Lutherans, or we affirm that or de deny that against the papus or something like that. So it's just a, a little bit of a fun gimmick that we've added on top of this to sort of give it a little bit of its own reformed flavor, uh, onto something that's otherwise somewhat, um, Baal or, or I don't know, sort of vanilla. So we like it. It's a good chance for us to chat, kind of timestamps the episode with where we are in time. And usually, usually, like I said, we end up with something sort of theological out of it. 'cause that's, that's just the nature of us and that's, that's the way it goes. That's, and that's what happens, like when we're talking about stuff we. Like when we're together at Christmas or at the beach, like things take that theological shift because that's just who, who we are, and that's what we're thinking about. Jesse Schwamb: By the way, that sounds like a new CBS drama coming this fall. The nature of us. Tony Arsenal: The nature of us? Yeah. Or like a, like a hallmark channel. Jesse Schwamb: It does, uh, Tony Arsenal: it's like a a, I'm picturing like the, the big city girl who moves out to take a job as a journalist in like Yosemite and falls in love with the park ranger and it's called The Nature of Us. Jesse Schwamb: The nature of us Yes. Coming this fall to CBS 9:00 PM on Thursdays. Yeah. I love it. Well, this is our homage to that great theological tradition of the affirming with, or the denying against. So what do you got this week? Are you affirming with something or you denying against something? [00:04:55] No Quarters November Tony Arsenal: I'm affirming. This is a little cheeky. I'm not gonna throw too much, much, uh, too much explanation. Uh, along with it. I'm affirming something. I'm calling no quarters, November. So, you know, normally I'm very careful to use quarters. I'm very careful to make sure that I'm, I'm saving them and using them appropriately. And for the month of November, I'm just not gonna use any quarters. So there'll be no 25 cent pieces in my banking inventory for the month. Oh. So I'm, I'm making a little bit of fun. Of course. Obviously no, quarter November is a tradition that Doug Wilson does, where he just is even more of a jerk than he usually is. Um, and he, he paints it in language that, like, normally I'm very careful and I qualify everything and I have all sorts of nuance. But in November, I'm just gonna be a bull in a China shop, um, as though he's not already just a bull in a China shop 95% of the time. So I'm affirming no corridors. November maybe. No corners November. Everything should be rounded. Jesse Schwamb: That's good too. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. No, no. Quatro November. Like we don't do anything in Spanish. No fours in Spanish. I don't know. Okay. I'm just making fun of that. I'm just making fun of the whole thing. It's such a silly, dumb enterprise. There's nothing I can do except to make fun of it. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I think that's fair. That's basically the response it deserves. This time, we, we brought it up for several years going, it's such a strange thing. [00:06:13] Critique of Doug Wilson's Approach Jesse Schwamb: It's hard not to see this thing as complete liberty to be sinful and then to acknowledge that. Yeah. As if somehow that gives you, reinforces that liberty that you're taking it, it's so strange. It's as if like, this is what is necessary and probably we'll get to this actually, but this is what is necessary for like the gospel or the kingdom of God to go forward is that kind of attitude at times. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And I will say this, I do always look forward every year to seeing what he sets on fire. 'cause the, the videos are pretty great. I'm not gonna lie. Like the video quality is, is certainly compelling. Um, and you could say it's lit is another little punny way to get at it. Uh, I, I haven't seen it this year. I mean, that's, we're recording this on November 1st, so I'm sure that it's out. Uh, I just haven't seen it yet. But yeah, I mean, it's kind of, kind of ridiculous, uh, that anyone believes that Doug Wilson is restraining himself or engaging in lots of fine distinctions and nuance. You know, like the rest of the year and November is the time that he really like holds back, uh, or really doesn't hold back. That's, that's just a silly, it's just a silly gimmick. It's a silly, like, I dunno, it's a gimmick and it's dumb and so I'm gonna make fun of it 'cause that's what it deserves. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I think that's right. You know, I was thinking recently because as you said, the counter just rolled over. And generally this time of year I end up always watching that documentary that Ligonier put together on Martin Luther, which is quite good. And I think it does, has a fair treatment of him, including the fact that he was so bombastic and that he was very caustic with his language. And I think they treat that fairly by saying, oh, that some of the same things that we admire in somebody can be some of the very same things which pull them into sinful behavior. And there's no excuse for that. And, and, and if that's true for him, then it's true for all of us, of course. And it's definitely true for Luther. So I think this idea, we need to be guarding our tongues all the time and to just make up some excuse to say, I'm not gonna do that. And in some way implying that there's some kind of hidden. Piety in that is what I think is just so disturbing. And I think most of us see through that for what exactly it is. It's clickbaits. It's this idea of trying to draw attention by being bombastic and literally setting things on fire. Like the video where he sets the boat on fire is crazy because all I can think of is like, so if you judge me, one more thing on this, Tony, 'cause I, I, when you said that, I thought about this video, the boat video implicitly, and I've thought about this a lot since then. There's a clip of him, he sets the boat on fire and it's kind of like him sitting on the boat that is engulfed in flames looking out into the sea, so, so calmly as if it's like an embodiment of that mean this is fine, everything is fine, this is fine. Right? Yeah. And all I can think of is that was great for probably like the two seconds that somebody filmed that, but guess what happened immediately after that? Somebody rescued you by putting out the fire on the boat. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: It's just like insanity to presume that, encapsulating that single moment and somehow conveying that he is a great champion, pioneer advocate of things of the gospel by essentially coming in and disrupting and being caustic and that him setting thing on fire makes everything better is a mockery, because that's not even exactly how that shoot took place. Yeah. So I, I just really struggle with that, with the perspective he is trying to bring forward. Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I mean, I'm dubious whether or not there was actually any fire involved. Well, that's, I think 95% of it is probably camera magic, which is fine. Like, I don't know. That's fine. Like, I don't want Doug Wilson to burn up. That's, that wouldn't be cool either. But, um, yeah, I mean, like the fruit of the spirit is love, joy piece patience, kindness, good as gentleness, setting things on fire and being a jerk in November, apparently. And I, I just don't, I, I've never fully understood the argument. Um, and this is coming from someone who can be sarcastic and can go over the top and go too far. And, and I recognize that about myself. I've just never understood the argument that like, it's okay to be a jerk sometimes. Or, or not even just, okay. It's necessary to be a jerk sometimes. Exactly. Um, there's a difference between boldness and being a jerk. And, you know, I think, um, the people who, who know me well are gonna like fall off their chairs. I say this like, Michael Foster is actually someone who I think. Does the boldness with a little bit of an edge. I think he actually does it really well. And just like all of us, I, you know, he, he probably goes over the line, uh, on occasion. Um, and, and, but I think he does the, I'm just going to be direct and straightforward and bold. And sometimes that might offend you because sometimes the truth is offensive. Um, I think he does that well. I think where we go sideways is when we try to couch everything in sort of this offensive posture, right? Where, where even the things that shouldn't be offensive, uh, somehow need to be made offensive. It, it's just, it's dumb. It's just, um, and I'm, I'm not saying we should be nice just for the sake of being nice. I think sometimes being nice is. When I say nice, I mean like saccharin sweet, like, like overly uh, I don't know, like sappy sweets. Like we don't have to be that. And uh, there are times where it's not even appropriate to be that. Um, but that's different than just, you know, it's almost like the same error in the wrong direction, right? To be, just to be a jerk all the time. Sometimes our words and our behavior and our actions have to have a hard edge. And sometimes that's going to offend people because sometimes the truth, especially the gospel truth is offensive. Um, but when what you're known for is being a jerk and being rude and just being offensive for the sake of being offensive. Um, right. And, and I'll even say this, and this will be the last thing I say. 'cause I didn't, I, I really intend this just to be like a, a jokey joke. No quarters, November. I'm not gonna spend any quarters. Um, I don't know why I was foolish enough to think we weren't gonna get into it, but, um. When your reputation is that you are a jerk just to be a jerk. Even if that isn't true, it tells you that something is wrong with the way you're doing things. Right. Because I think there are times where, and I'll say this to be charitable, there are times where Doug Wilson says something with a little bit of an edge, and people make way too big of a deal out of it. Like they, they go over the top and try to condemn it, and they, they make everything like the worst possible offense. And sometimes, sometimes it's, it's just not. Um, and there are even times where Doug says things that are winsome and they're helpful and, um, but, but when your reputation is that you are a jerk just to be a jerk, or that you are inflammatory just to get a reaction, um, there's something wrong with your approach. And then to top it off, when you claim that for November, like you explicitly claim that identity as though that's not already kind of your shtick the rest of the year. Um, and just, it's just. Frustrating and dumb and you know, this is the guy that like, is like planting a church in DC and is like going on cnn. It's just really frustrating to see that sort of the worst that the reformed world has to offer in terms of the way we interact with people sometimes is getting the most attention. So, right. Anyway, don't, don't be a pirate. N November is still my way. I celebrate and, uh, yeah, that's, that's that. Jesse Schwamb: That's well said. Again, all things we're thinking about because we all have tendency to be that person from time to time. So I think it's important for us to be reminded that the gospel doesn't belong to us. So that means like that sharp edge, that conviction belongs to Christ, not to our personalities. So if it's tilted toward our personalities, even toward our communication style, then it means that we are acting in sin. And so it's hard for us to see that sometimes. So it does take somebody to say, whoa. Back it down a little bit there and you may need to process. Well, I'm trying to communicate and convey this particular truth. Well, again, the objective that we had before us is always to do so in love and salt and light. So I agree with you that there is a way to be forthright and direct in a way that still communicates like loving compassion and concern for somebody. And so if really what you're trying to do is the equivalent of some kinda spiritual CPR, we'll know that you, you don't have to be a jerk while you're doing it. You don't have to cause the kind of destruction that's unnecessary in the process. Even though CPR is a traumatic and you know, can be a painful event by it's necessary nature, we administer it in such a way that makes sure that we are, we have fidelity to the essential process itself, to the essential truths that's worth standing up for. Yeah, it's not a worth being a jerk. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. [00:14:37] Practical Application of Parables Tony Arsenal: Jesse, let's, let's move along. What are you affirming or denying tonight Jesse Schwamb: and now for something much lighter? So, my, my affirmation I share at the risk of it being like so narrow that maybe nobody will actually want to use this, but I actually had you in mind. Tony, I've been sitting on this one for a little while 'cause I've been testing it. And so we're, we're just gonna run like an actual quick experiment 'cause I. I'm guessing you will find this affirmation useful and will come along with me and it and might even use it, but you and I are not always like representative of all the people in the world. I say that definitely tongue in cheek. So we're a little bit nerdy. We love our podcasts and so occasionally, I don't know if this happens to you, I'm guessing it does, but I want to capture like a moment that I heard while podcast is playing on my phone. Maybe somebody says something really interesting, it's great quotes, or it's mathematical nature and I wanna go back and process it. And so generally what I do is I, I don't know, I stop it. I try to go back and listen to it real quick if I can, or maybe I can't because running, driving, all that stuff. So. When I hear something now that I want to keep, I just cry out to my phone. I have an, I have an iPhone, so I say, Siri, you could do this with Google. Take a screenshot. What happens is the phone captures an image of my podcast app with a timestamp showing of course what's being played. Then I forward this image, this is the crazy affirmation part. When it's time to be alive, I forward this image to a certain email address and I get back the text transcript of the previous 90 seconds, which I can then either look at or file into my notes. What is this email address sent it to you. Well, here's the website so you can go check it out for yourself though. Website is actually called Podcast Magic App, and there's just three easy steps there, and this will explain to you how you actually get that image back to you in the format of a transcript. And the weird thing about this is it's, it's basically free, although if you use it a lot, they ask for like a one-time donation of $20, which you know me, I love. A one time fee. So I've been using this a lot recently, which is why I've been sitting on it, but it is super helpful for those of you who are out there listening to stuff. They're like, oh, I like that. I need to get that back. And of course, like you'll never get it back. So if you can create this method that I've done where you can train your phone to take a snapshot picture of what's on the screen, then you can send it to Podcast Magic at Sublime app, and they will literally send you a transcript of the previous 90 seconds no matter what it is. Tony Arsenal: That is pretty sweet. I'll have to check that out. Um, I don't listen to as many podcasts as I used to. How dare you? I just, the I know. It's, it's crazy. Where do we even do it Feels like heresy to say that on a podcast that I'm recording. Yes. Um, Jesse Schwamb: we've lost half the audience. Yeah. Tony Arsenal: Well, yeah. Well, the other half will come next. Um, no, I, I, I just don't have as much time as I used to. I, I live closer to work than I used to and um, I'm down to, we're down to one car now, so, um, your mother is graciously giving me a ride to work. Um, 'cause she, she drives right past our house on the, the way and right past my work on the way to her work. Um, but yeah, so I guess I say that to say like, the podcast that I do listen to are the ones that I really wanna make sure I'm, I am, uh, processing and consuming and, uh, making sure that I'm kinda like locking into the content. Jesse Schwamb: Right. Tony Arsenal: So this might be helpful for that when I do hear something and I do think, like, it's hard because I use matter, which is great, and you can forward a podcast to matter and it generates a whole transcript of the entire episode, which is great. Um, but I don't often go back and, you know, a lot of times, like I'll go through my matter, uh, queue and it'll be like three weeks after I listened to a podcast episode, I be like, why did I put this in here? Right? I get that. I don't wanna listen to the entire 60 minute episode again to try to remember what that special thing was. So I just end up archiving it. So this might be a good middle ground to kind of say like, I might set, I might still send it to matter to get the whole transcript, but then I can use this service to just capture where in the transcript actually was I looking for? Um. It's interesting. I'll have to look at it too, because you can, you can send, uh, through Apple Podcast, the Apple Podcast app and through most podcast apps, I think. Right? You can send the episode with the timestamp attached to it. Yes. So I wonder if you could just send that, that link. Okay. Instead of the screenshot. Um, you know, usually I'm, I'm not. Uh, I don't usually, I'm not driving anymore, so usually when I'm listening to a podcast I have, my hands are on my phone so I could actually send it. So yeah, I'll have to check that out. That's a good recommendation. Jesse Schwamb: Again, it's kind of nuanced, but listen, loved ones, you know what you get with us, you're gonna get some, it could be equally affirmation, denial that Doug involves Doug Wilson, and then some random little thing that's gonna help you transcribe podcasts you listen to, because life is so hard that we need to be able to instantly get the last 90 seconds of something we listen to so that we can put it into our note taping at note taking app and put it into our common notebook and keep it. Yeah, there you go. Tony Arsenal: There's a lot of apps. There was actually a, a fair number of apps that came out a while ago that were, they were trying to accomplish this. Where you could, as you were listening to the podcast, in that app, you could basically say, highlight that and it would, it would highlight whatever sentence you were on. But the problem is like by the time you say highlight that you're already onto the next sentence, you now you're going back trying to do it again. And I didn't find any of that worked really seamlessly. It was a lot of extra friction. So this might be kind of a good frictionless or less friction way to do it. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I'm totally with you. [00:20:08] The Kingdom of Heaven Parables Jesse Schwamb: I mean, speaking of like things that cause friction, there's no doubt that sometimes in Jesus' teaching on the parables that he himself brings the heat, he brings a little friction in his communication. And since you and I basically did go through each of these parables, we don't have do that again on this conversation. In fact, what I'm looking forward to is kind of us coming together and coalescing our conversation about these things, the themes that we both felt that we heard and uncovered in the course of talking through them. But I think as well ending with so what? So what is some real good shoe leather style, practical application of these ideas of understanding the kingdom of God to be like this mustard seed and like this lemon. So why don't I start by just reading. Again, these couple of verses, which we're gonna take right out of Matthew chapter 13. Of course, there are parallel passages in the other gospels as well, and I'd point you to those if you wanna be well-rounded, which you should be. And so we're gonna start in verse 31 of chapter 13. It's just a handful of verse verses. Here's what Matthew writes. Jesus puts another parable before them saying The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field. It's the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown, it is larger than all the garden plants and becomes a tree so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches. He told them another parable. The kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman took and hid in three measures of flower till it was all leavened. Alright? Yeah. So Tony, what do you think? Tony Arsenal: Uh, I mean, these are so like, straightforward. It was almost, it, it felt almost silly trying to like explain them. Yeah. One of the things that, that did strike me, that I think is worth commenting too, um, just as a, a general reminder for parables, we have to be careful to remember what the parable is saying, right? So I, I often hear, um. The smallness of the mustard seed emphasized. Mm-hmm. And I think your, your commentary, you did a good job of kind of pointing out that like there's a development in this parable like it, right? It's a progression and there's an eschatology to it, both in terms of the, the parable itself, but also it comments on the eschatology of the kingdom of heaven. But it's not just that the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. It's the kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sewed in his field. Right? It's that whole clause that is the, the kingdom of heaven is like likewise, the kingdom of heaven is not just like leave, it's like leave that a woman took in hidden in three measures of flour till all was leavened. So when we're looking at these parables. Or when we're looking at really any parable, it's important to make sure that we get the second half of the, the comparison, right? What are we comparing the kingdom of heaven to? You know, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a sower who sowed seeds among, you know, in three types of four types of soil. This kingdom of Heaven is like, this is like that. We don't wanna miss part of the parable because we latch on to just like the first noun, and that follows the word like, um, but I think these are great, these are great little, um, parables that in some ways are almost like, uh, compliments or ex explanations of the other parables that we're looking at too. They, they explain to us something more about what the Kingdom of Heaven is using similar kinds of analogies that help us flesh out the parables that are surrounding them. So the Kingdom of Heaven. You know, again, we always want to caution against kind of like overinterpreting, the parables, but the, the parable of the sower is talking about the seed that is sewn into the field, right? And then there's the parable of the wheat and the tears, and there's seed again. And we, we might have a tendency to sort of miss the nature of the kingdom in a certain sort of dynamic. This fleshes this out. So we might think of like the parable of the sowers, like we don't know what, what proportion is of good soil, you know, good soil versus bad. We know that there's three types of soils that are bad soils or unproductive soils and one type, but we don't know like how much of the soil is, um, like what percentage of the field is that. Similarly, like we don't know what percentage of the field was wheat and what was weeds. This is kind of reminding us that the, the kingdom of heaven is not found primarily in the, um, the expansiveness of it. Right. It's not, it's not initially going to look like much. It's going to initially start out very small. Right. And in some ways, like in both of these, it appears to disappear entirely. Right? You sow a grain of mustard seed. I don't, I've never seen a mustard seed, so, but it's very small. Obviously you sow that into the ground. You're not gonna find it again, you're not gonna come back a week later and dig up that seed and figure out where you sewed it. Um, similarly, like you put a, you put a very small amount of yeast or lemon into a three measures of flour. You're not gonna be able to go in even probably, even with a microscope. You know, I suppose if you had infinite amount of time, you could pick a every single grain of flour, but you're not gonna be able to like go find that lemon. It's not gonna be obvious to the eye anymore, or even obvious to the careful searcher anymore. So that's what the kingdom of heaven is like in both of these. It's this very small, unassuming thing that is hidden away. Uh, it is not outwardly visible. It is not outwardly magnificent. It is not outwardly even effective. It disappears for all intents and purposes. And then it does this amazing thing. And that's where I really think these, these two parables kind of find their unity is this small, unassuming thing. That seems ineffectual actually is like abundantly effectual in ways that we don't even think about and can't even comprehend. Jesse Schwamb: Right? Yeah. I would say almost it's as if it's like, well, it's certainly intentionally, but almost like offensively imperceptible. And I think that's the friction that Jesus brings with him to the original audience when he explains it this way. So again, from the top, when we said this idea that the kingdom of God is imperceptible, it's hidden, it grows, it conquers, it brings eschatological resolution. And I'm just thinking again, in the minds of the hearers, what they would've been processing. I think you're spot on. I liked your treatment of that by focusing us to the fact that there is verb and noun and they go together. We often get stuck on the nouns, but this, that verb content means that all of this, of course, is by the superintendent will of God. It's volitional. His choice is to do it this way. It is again, where the curse becomes the blessing, where it's the theology of the cross or theology of glory, where it is what is small and imp, perceptible and normal by extraordinary means becomes that which conquers all things. And so I can. Picture, at least in my mind, because I'm a person and would, would wanna understand something of the kingdom of God. And if I were in a place, a place of oppression physically and spiritually living in darkness, to have this one who claims to be Messiah come and talk about the inauguration of this kingdom. My mind, of course, would immediately go to, well, God's kingdom must be greater than any other kingdom I could see on this earth. And I see it on the earth that the sun rises. And cast light across provinces and countries and territories in a grand way. And then we have this kingdom of God, which, you know, theory, the, the sun should never set on it and the sun should never be able to shine, but on a corner of it. And it doesn't have provinces or countries, it doesn't even have continence, but it has, it encapsulates worlds. And it doesn't stretch from like shore to shore or sea to shining sea, but from sun to sun or star to star from the heavens to the earth, its extent couldn't be surveyed. Its inhabitants couldn't be numbered. Its beginning, could never be calculated because from Tard past, it had no bounds. And so I'm just thinking of all these things and then like you said, Jesus says, let me tell you what it's really like. It's like somebody throwing a tiny seed into a garden. Or it's like a woman just making bread and she puts yeast into it. These seem like not just opposites, but almost offensive, I think, in the way that they portray this kingdom that's supposed to be of great power and sovereign growth, but it comes in perceptibly and how perfect, because the one who's delivering this message is the one who comes imperceptibly, the person of Christ preaching the gospel and the hearts of believers. But that grows into a vast and global proportion, and that of course, that aligns exactly with so many things you and I have talked about in process before. These doctrines are providence and sovereign grace, that God ordains the means that is the seed and ensures the outcome, which is the tree. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, um, you know, I don't, I don't know of any affinity with mustard seed in like the Old Testament law, but there's, there's a sort of a reversal of expectation here too, because although Levin is not always associated with like impurity, um, I think most Jewish listeners would immediately have a negative connotation with Levin for sure. Right? So when, when all of a sudden he's comparing the Kingdom of Heaven to leaven it, it becomes sort of this, um, the reason Levin is so pernicious and the reason that in the Old Testament law, you know, they're, they're, they're not just not making their bread with leave for the, for the Passover. They have to like sweep out their whole house. They have to empty all their stores out. They have to clear everything out. And that's not just because like. In, in, in Old Testament, sort of like metaphors, leaven does get associated with sin, right? Uh, and that gets carried on into the New Testament, but just the actual physical properties of leaven is like, if there's any little bit of it left on the shelf or even in the air, like even on your hands, it's can spoil the whole batch. It can cause the entire batch to go a different direction than you want it to. And in a certain way, like the Kingdom of Heaven is like that, right? Um. [00:30:21] The Resilience of God's Kingdom Tony Arsenal: You hear about, um, you hear about situations where it seems like the presence of God's people and the, the kingdom of God is just, it's just eradicated. And then you find out that there's actually like a small group of believers who somehow survived and then like Christianity is thriving again like 50 years later. Um, you can't just wipe out the kingdom of heaven because it is like leaven and any small remaining remnant of it is going to work its way back through the entire batch in a way that is, uh, mysterious and is somewhat unpredictable and is certainly going to surprise people who are not expecting it to be there. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. [00:31:04] Understanding Theological Concepts Jesse Schwamb: One of the things I really picked up in your treatment of that, that kind of drew me in in a special way was, you know, we think of some theological terms. We have really, I think, strong. Rubric for processing them, and especially like their multifaceted nature. So for instance, when we think about sanctification, we often talk about positional and progressive. And those are really helpful ways to understand a concept that brings us into modeling where it's finite and precise to a degree that allows us to understand it and comprehend it with a greater degree of confidence. And knowing it's many parts, because it is many parted. [00:31:36] The Parable of the Leaven Jesse Schwamb: And I was thinking as you were talking about the leaven, how the kingdom of heaven here that is inaugurated by Christ, that comes by the power of the Holy Spirit is growth and always deny that. But what you drew out for me was I think we're definitely seeing in that this idea of the intensive growth and then of course in the. Parable of the mustard seed. It's more extensive growth and they're both important. So they're in consummate harmony. It's not just like one recapitulating the other. And what that made me think about was even as you were speaking now, this really interesting difference, you know, the woman is taking this, again, talking about the verb, there's two nouns here actually. There's like the, the proper pronoun of the woman there is the act which she's doing, which she's taking the leaven and working it as it were like into the flower. I just did like a weird motion here on the camera if you're watching on uh, YouTube. Sorry about that. [00:32:28] Practical Lessons from Bread Making Jesse Schwamb: Almost like I was giving CPR, but she's working it into this meal or this flower and the working it from within outwards and that working itself like changes the whole substance from the center to the surface of this meal. Now I was thinking about this 'cause you noted something about bed bread. Bread baking in yours. And I did actually just a couple weeks ago, make some bread and the recipe I was using came with this like huge warning. Some of the recipes are like this, where when you're using some kinda lemon, most of the time we're using yeast. You have to not only be careful, of course, about how much yeast you put in because you put in too much, it's gonna blow the whole thing up. You're gonna have serious problems. You're not gonna make the bread anymore, you're gonna make a bomb, so to speak, and it's gonna be horrible. You're not gonna want to eat it. But the second thing is the order in which you add the ingredients, or in this recipe in particular, had very explicit instructions for when you're creating the dry ingredients. When you have the flour, make a little well with your finger and delicately place. All of the yeast in there so that when you bring the dough together, when you start to shape it, you do it in a particular way that from the inside out changes the whole thing so that there's a thorough mixing. Because the beauty of this intensive change is that. As you know Tony, like there's so many things right now in my kitchen that are fermenting and I talked about before, fermenting the process of leavening something is a process of complete change. It's taking something that was before and making it something very different. But of course it retains some of the essential characteristics, but at the same time is a completely different thing. And so it's through a corresponding change that man goes to whom the spirit of God communicates His grace. It's hidden in the heart and chain begin, change begins there. You know, the outward reformation is not preparing a way for inward regeneration. It's the other way around that regeneration, that reformation on the outside springs from a regeneration that's on the inside, growing out of it as a tree grows from a seed as a stream flows from the spring or as leave, comes and takes over the entire lump of dough. [00:34:26] The Power of Small Beginnings Jesse Schwamb: It's amazing. This is how God works it. We again, on the one side we see the kingdom of heaven. That is like the manifestations of his rule in rain coming, like that seed being sown and growing into this mighty tree. It brings shade. The birds come nest in it. And that may be a reference Allah to like Ezekiel or Daniel, the Gentiles themselves. There's that inclusion. And then to be paired with this lovely sense that, you know what else, anywhere else, the power of the kingdom of heaven is made. Manifest is in every heart in life of the believer. And so the Christian has way more in religion in their outer expression than they do anybody else. Because the inner person, the identity has been changed. Now you and I, you and I harp all the time on this idea that we, we don't need some kind of, you know, restoration. We need regeneration. We don't need to be reformed merely on the outside by way of behaviors or clever life hacks. We need desperately to be changed from the inside out because otherwise we. Where it's just, I don't know, draping a dead cold statue with clothing, or all we're doing is trying to create for ourselves a pew in the house of God. What we really need is to be like this bread that is fully loving, that grows and rises into this delicious offering before the world and before God. Because if you were to cut into this outwardly looking freshly baked bread and find that as soon as you got through that delicious, hard, crispy crust on the outside, that in the inside all it was, was filled with like unprocessed, raw flour, you would of course say, that's not bread. I don't know what that is. But that's not bred. What a great blessing that the promise that God gives to us is that the kingdom of God is not like that. It lies in the heart by the power of God. And if it's not there, it's not anywhere. And that though the Christian May at times exhibit, as we've talked about before, some kinda hypocrisy, they are not essentially hypocrites. Why? Because the Kingdom of God is leavening us by the power of the Holy Spirit. That gospel message is constantly per permeating that yeast through all of who we are, so that it continues to change us. So that while the natural man still remains, we are in fact a new creation in Christ. So to start with, you know, bread and or not bread to end with bread, but to start with flour and water and yeast and salts, and to be transformed and changed is the intensive power of the growth of the gospel, which is with us all our lives, until we have that beautific vision. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, um, you know, to kind of take a, a pivot maybe to the practical, I think this is, this is not the point of the parable necessarily 'cause the parable. I think there's a lot that these parables have to say to us about like, personal, individual growth, but they really are about the growth of the kingdom or the, the, maybe necessarily the growth of the kingdom. I think that's there too. But really like the nature of the kingdom as this sort of like, hidden, hidden thing that then grows and creates big results. [00:37:34] Encouragement in Times of Darkness Tony Arsenal: I, I think this is a, this is a parable that should encourage us. Like absolutely for sure we should look to this and, and be encouraged because. It is not the case. Um, I know there are lots of people who wanna act as though like this is the worst time anyone has ever lived in, and everything is the worst as it's ever been. It's, this is not even close to the worst time that the church has ever existed in, um, there are, it's funny, um, we'll give a little plug. Some of our listeners have started their own new show called Over Theologizing, and, um, it, it was, it was funny listening to the second episode they had, um. Pete Smith was on there and they were saying, like, they were talking about like, how do you feel about the nature of the church? And Pete was like, it's fine. Like it's great out here. Like there's lots of churches, lots good. Like I, I think that there are pockets in our, in our world, um, particularly, you know, my, my former reference is Western World and in the United States and in some senses in, in Europe, um, there are certainly pockets of places where it's very dark and very difficult to be a Christian, but by and large it's not all that challenging. Like, we're not being actively persecuted. They're not feeding us to the lions. They're not stealing our businesses. They're not, um, murdering us. You know, like I said, there are exceptions. And even in the United States, there are places where things are moving that direction. But there are also times when the church is going to feel dark and small and, and like it's failing and, and like it's, it's weak. And we can look at these parables and say, the fact that it feels and looks and may actually be very small does not rob it of its power that does not rob the kingdom of heaven of its power. It in, in actuality that smallness is its power, right? Leave is so powerful of an ingredient in bread because you need so little of it, right? Because that it, you can use such a small quantity of lemon to create such a, a huge result in bread. That's the very nature of it. And it, its efficacy is in that smallness. And you know, I think the mustard seed is probably similar in that you, you don't need to have, um. Huge reaping of, of mustard seed in order to produce the, the crop that is necessary, the trees that are necessary to, to grow that. So when we look around us and we see the kingdom of heaven feeling and maybe actually even being very small in our midst, we should still be encouraged because it doesn't take a lot of leave to make the bread rise, so to speak. And it doesn't take a lot. And, and again, like of course it's not our power that's doing it, that's where maybe sort of like the second takeaway, the baker doesn't make the bread rise by his own like force of will, right? He does it by putting in this, this agent, you know, this ingredient that works in a sort of miraculous, mysterious way. It's obviously not actually miraculous. It's a very natural process. But I think for most of history. So that was a process that probably was not well understood, right? We, we, people didn't fully understand why Bread did what it did when you used lemon. They just knew that it did. And I think that's a good takeaway for us as well, is we can't always predict how the kingdom of heaven is gonna develop or is gonna operate in our midst. Um, sometimes it's gonna work in ways that seem to make a lot of sense, otherwise it's gonna seem like it's not doing anything. Um, and then all of a sudden it does. And that's, that's kind of where we're at. Jesse Schwamb: I like that. That's what a great reminder. Again, we all often come under this theme that God is always working. Even when we don't feel or see that he is, he's always working and even we've just come again on the calendar at least to celebrate something of the Reformation and its anniversary. Uh. What again, proof positive that God's kingdom will not fail. That even in the places where I thought the gospel was lost or was darkens, even in Israel's past in history, God always brings it forward. It cannot, it will not die. [00:41:26] Faithfulness Over Visibility Jesse Schwamb: So I wanna tack onto that by way of, I think some practical encouragement for ministry or for all believers. And that is, let's not despise small beginnings. Like let's not despise whatever it is that you're doing in service to God, to your family, to your churches, especially in the proclamation of the gospel. This is from um, Zacharia chapter four, beginning of verse eight. Then the word of the Lord came to me saying, the hands of the rebel have laid the foundation of this house. His hands shall also complete it. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent me to you. For whoever has despised the day of small things shall rejoice and shall see the plumb line in the hand of Zabel. So I love this encouragement that is for all Christians. That's one. Again, God is doing all the verbs like just. For one last time for everybody in the back. God does all the verbs. Yeah, and in so doing, because he is doing all the verbs, he may, but he chooses to start with small things because again, he is always showing and exemplifying his glory and he does this in these normative ways. It's a beautiful expression of how majestic and powerful he is. So let's embrace those things with be encouraged by them. The gospel may appear weak or slow in bearing fruit, yet God guarantees its eventual triumph. God guarantees that he's already stamped it. It's faithfulness and not visibility. That's the measure of fruitfulness. So if you're feeling encouraged in whatever it is that you're doing in ministry, the formal or otherwise, I would say to you. Look to that faithfulness, continue to get up and do it, continue to labor at it, continue to seek strength through the Holy Spirit, and know that the measure of his fruitfulness will come, but maybe in a future time, but it will come because this is what God does. It's God doing all the work. He's the one, he's essentially the characters needs of these parables, sowing the seed, working in lemon. Yeah. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And I think, you know, like I said, the, the parables are not necessarily about individual personal growth. Um, but I, I think the principle that is here applies to that as well is I think oftentimes we feel like, um. I'll speak for myself. There are have been many times in my walk as a Christian, um, where it just feels like nothing's happening. Right? Right. Like, you just feel like it's dry and like you, you're, you know, you're, you're not like you're falling into some great sin or like you've walking away from the faith, but it just feels sort of dry and stale and like God isn't doing anything. And, um, I've only ever tried to bake bread once and it was a, it was just a terrible, terrible failure. But, um, I think one of the things that I've. I've read about people who bake bread is that there is a level of patience that has to come with it, right? Because oftentimes it seems like the bread isn't rising. It seems like the, the lemon is not doing what it's supposed to do until it does. Right? And like, if you take the bread out of the oven every couple of minutes to check and see if it's rising, it's never going to rise. It's never going to do what it's supposed to do. And, um, you know, I think that is kind of like the Christian life in microcosm too, is we, we have these spiritual disciplines that we do. We pray, we read the scriptures, we attend faithfully to the Lord's Day service. And oftentimes it doesn't feel like that's doing anything right. But it is. The Kingdom of Heaven is at work in not only in our midst as a corporate body, but the kingdom of heaven is at work in each of us as well. That's right. God's, God's grace and his, uh, special providence and his spirit of, of sanctification, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of holiness and the one who makes us holy. Um, he is doing that whether it feels like it or not, whether we see, um, outward progress or not. If the spirit dwells within us, he is necessarily making us holy and necessarily sanctifying us. Um, and and so I want us to all think about that as we, we kind of wrap up a little bit here, is we shouldn't be. I, I don't wanna say we shouldn't be discouraged, um, because it's easy to get discouraged and I don't want people to feel like I'm like, you should never be discouraged. Like sometimes the world is discouraging and it's frustrating, and it's okay to feel that, but we should be able to be encouraged by this parable. When we look at it and we remember like, this is just. This is just the parable form of Paul saying like, God glories by using the weak to demonstrate his strength. Exactly right. He, he is, his power is shown in, in using the weak and frail things of this life and this world to accomplish his purposes. And so when we are weak, when we are feeling as though we are failing as Christians, we should be able to look at this and say, well, this is what the kingdom of heaven is like. It's like a tiny mustard seed, a tiny mustard seed of faith that grows into a large tree. It's, it's like this little little spark of leave that God puts in us and it's hidden in us and it leavens the whole loaf. And that's us, right? And that's the church, that's the kingdom. It's the world. Um, God is at work and he is doing it in ways that we would not ordinarily see. Even the person who has this sort of like explosive Christian growth. That's not usually sustained. I think most people when they first come to faith, especially if they come to faith, you know, as a teenager or a young adult, um, they come to faith and they have this like explosive period of growth where they're like really passionate about it and on fire. And then that, that passion just kind of like Peters out and you kind of get into like the, the day in, day out of Christianity, um, which is not, it's not flashy. It's not sexy, it's not super exciting. It's very boring in a lot of ways, like right, it's, it's basic bread, it's basic water. It's hearing a, a person speak and it's, it's reading words on a page. But when the Holy Spirit uses those things, he uses them faithfully to finish the work that he started. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. The spirit's work of leavening, it continues quietly, but it powerfully, yeah. And we shouldn't despise that quietness or that smallness that I think is altogether a gift of God. And again, we're talking about the one who embodies the perfect will of God, who came and condescended to his creation was like us in every eight, where every way without sin. This is the one who became, I think as Paul writes in Galatians, a curse for us. And so again, this blessedness arises out of, again, what I think is this offensive means. And if that is the model that Christ gives to us, we ourselves shouldn't despise that kinda small beginning or even despise the sacrifices we're often called to make. Or those again, I would say like offensively and auspicious kinds of beginnings. All of that is peace wise, what it means to be a follower of Jesus. And there's a beauty in that. And I would say, I want to add to what you said, Tony, 'cause I think it was right on, is this idea that's easy to be discouraged is. It doesn't require any explanation. I, I, I'm totally with you. If you were to pick up any, or go to any kind of website and just look at the headlines for their news reporting, you're going to find plenty of reasons to be discouraged and to feel melancholy. And yet at the same time when I think we, you and I talk about these things, what I'm prone to consider is what Paul writes elsewhere to the church in Corinth, where he says in two Corinthians chapter 10, we destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ. Being ready to punish every disobedience when you're disobey, when you're obedience is complete. And so what I think that applies to us in this particular case is understanding that this is the promise of God. Like you're saying, you and I are saying. Discouragement happens. And yet the truth is that small inauspicious beginnings in the kingdom of heaven always result in outsized gains that God never ceases to work. That he's always with us, that he's always for us. Then we do have to take captive those thoughts that lead us into kind of a disproportionate melancholy that pull us away or distract us from this truth of God, the knowledge of God, which is that he is super intending, his sovereign will completely over every molecule in the universe because this is what the Kingdom of Heaven does. And so that gives us, I think as I said last week, hope and evangelism we're storming those gates of hell we're coming for you like because there is a triumphalism in Christ that will be manifested in the final day. It's the reformed understanding of the here but not quite yet. [00:49:57] Cultural Engagement as Christians Jesse Schwamb: And like the last place that Le that leads me to like some practical, I think application is, and I wanna be careful with this, so I'm curious for your opinion. It's cultural engagement. You know, if we're thinking about this, leave permeating this dough, this tiny seed growing to overtake the garden, then I think believers should labor to continue to bring biblical truth into every sphere. So your family, your vocation, arts, politics, everything under Christ's lordship. I think sometimes that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be. As we've talked about the top of the show, really outspoken in a provocative kind of way. I think sometimes, again, that same quiet though, consistent work that the Holy Spirit does that's powerful in leavening us is the same thing that we can do with just our attitudes at work or our attitudes in our family, or our willingness to serve or our kind words. Of course, it does require us to preach the gospel using words. It also means that the power of the leaven is that quiet power. It doesn't jump outta the bread. It doesn't boast, but it is present. So maybe I'm saying Christians, let's be present, and leavening means to be present with the attitude and the mind of Christ. What? What do you think? Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I think that's, um, I think that's right on, you know, um, it, it's not quite a parable, but Christ, Christ commands his people to be like salt and light and true. Um, and, and by saying that the kingdom of heaven is like leaven, you know, like a, a measure of leaven that was hidden away in three measures. Um, he's also commanding us to be like leaven, right? And he is commanding us to be like the, the mustard seed because that is what we are. And I think, um, we shouldn't think that we can cloister off or sequester off the kingdom of heaven from the rest of culture and create like, um, I'm not quite, uh, I'm not quite to the point where I'm, I'm a transformational in the sort of like Tim Keller sense, but I do think that. We, and I don't like this word, but I'm not sure of a better, a better way to say it, but like, we like to set up these little Christian ghettos where like we, we isolate ourselves culturally into these little subcultures and these little sort of cordoned off areas of culture. Um, where we, we actually then strive to look just like the culture that's around us, right? Right. We subsection off Christian music and although it's, you know, typically it's like a decade behind the curve in terms of what music is good, we're really just doing the same music as the rest of the world. We just baptize it with Christian language. Like, I remember my, my youth pastor in high school rewrote the song closing time to Be Quiet Time. And like that was like, that was like the most Christian thing he could do at the time, was rewrite the lyrics to a song. But like, that's, that's absolutely not what cultural transformation looks like. Right. Well, cultural transformation, and maybe I'm channeling a little bit of, of Michael Foster here, what cultural transformation looks like. Is is a man who gets married and loves his wife, well, serves her and sacrifices for her, and makes a bunch of babies and brings them to church, right? Like that's, that's cultural transformation. And in our culture, like that is a very counter-cultural way to do things. It's actually very counter-cultural. There have been times when that's not particularly countercultural and there probably will be times again where it is. And actually it seems like our broader American culture is moving away from the sort of like two kids, two kids and a dog is a, is a bygone era fantasy. And now it's like two single people living in a house together with a dog. Um, you know, and, and that's not to say that that's the only way to be, to transform culture, right? That's just one example of sort of the most mundane, natural thing is actually the way that we do it. Um. We transform culture by, um, by being honest, having integrity, yes. By, um, working hard, right? Yes. Going to work, doing your job well, uh, without a lot of fanfare, without seeking a lot of accolades, um, and just doing a good job because that's what God commands us to do when he tells us to honor our employers and to be good, faithful bond servants in the Lord. Um, that is also very, uh, that also will transform culture. Um, you know, I think we think of cultural transformation and we, I think we immediately go to, for better or worse, we go to like the Doug Wilsons of the world and we go like, that guy's engaging the culture. Well, yeah, I guess in a certain sense he is. Um, or we, or we go to. The Tim Keller's of the world where they are, they're engaging culture in a different way. But I think for most of us, for most Christians, our cultural engagement is very nor like very normal and very boring. It's living a very ordinary, quiet life. Um, you know, what does Paul say? Work quiet life. Mind your own business. Work with your hands, right? Like, don't be a busy body. Um, like that's, that's actually the way that culture is transformed. And that makes perfect sense. We will have to come back and do another episode on this sometimes, but like, that makes perfect sense. When you think about how God created Adam and what he was supposed to do to transform and cult, cultivate, right? The word cultivate and culture come from the same roots to transform and cultivate the entire world. What was he supposed to do? Plant a garden, tame the animals, right? You know, bake babies. Like, it's, it's not, um, it's not. Rocket science, it's not that difficult. And again, we are all called to different elements of that. And God providentially places us in situations and in, in life, you know, life circumstances, we're not all gonna be able to fulfill every element of that. But that's where this, that's where this becomes sort of the domain of the church, right? The church does all of these things in the culture, and I don't mean the church as institution. I mean like the people who are the church. They do all of these things in very ordinary, normal ways, and that will, that will transform the culture. Um, right. You, you show me a. And this is not, you know, by God's common grace, there are lots of really nice people out there who are more or less honest and have integrity and work hard at their jobs. So it's not as that, that's a uniquely Christian thing. But you show me a, a, a person who is known to be a Christian and works hard as honest is straightforward, is kind, is charitable, is self-sacrificial in, in all arenas of their life. Um, people will notice that and they will see it as different and they will associate it with Christianity. They will as

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Larson and Rich kick off today's episode with an acknowledgment of Christopher Columbus's work and faith. Then they dive into the crisis of fatherlessness and the collapse of masculine responsibility in today's world. They argue the church must recover a joyful, unapologetically patriarchal vision of the household — where men lead generationally and discipleship begins at the family table. “Proof as Moral Obligation” by Doug Wilson "Not Stolen" by Jeff Fynn-Paul "The Book That Made Your World" by Vishal Mangalwadi NYT Interview w/ Doug Wilson

Follow me on X (@chinaadventures) where I post new China city prayer profiles every single day. Send any notes or comments to bfwesten at gmail dot com and find much more, including my missionary biographies, at PrayGiveGo.us! Today I begin by discussing Trump’s visit to Malaysia (today!) and how he is likely perceived by Malaysians (and Asians in general), plus a note about Doug Wilson’s Open Letter to Trump and its availability here in Malaysia (and everywhere). Check out (and share!) Doug's message to Trump at: TrumpRepent.my Next we look at this week’s Chinese cities to pray for (x.com/china.myadventures, PrayforChina.us), including a deeper look at an early missionary to Mongolia (James Gilmour: https://www.missionary.com/articles/who-was-james-gilmour). Pray for China places of the week https://chinacall.substack.com/p/pray-for-china-oct-27-nov-2-2025 Luke McKinney, the Podcast Ninja from the Comedian Next Door podcast, joins me for the second half of the podcast in a conversation we recorded earlier today (Noon on Saturday Malaysia time, Midnight Eastern): The Comedian Next Door Podcast: https://pubtv.flfnetwork.com/tabs/the-pub/podcasts/8295 We discussed our respective NBA teams (Pacers & Thunder) for the first 20 minutes or so, before moving on to a number of China related topics including Hong Kong freedom (or not), the restrictions on Chinese churches, and LeBron and the NBA’s nefarious relationship with China. Finally, the last few minutes of the podcast take us to the topic of deer hunting, but Luke’s only been out two more times than I have (and I haven’t been out at all, here in Malaysia). Subscribe to China Compass and leave a review on your preferred podcast platform. Follow us on X (@chinaadventures), and find much more @ PrayGiveGo.us. Luke 10, verse 2, the harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Talk again soon!

On today's Flyover Conservatives Show, we sat down with Pastor Doug Wilson to confront America's moral collapse and what God requires for national repentance. He explains why abortion, same-sex marriage, and the rise of the administrative state are provoking divine judgment—and how the church has become complicit. Doug reveals the only path left for America to turn away from destruction and return to biblical order.On today's Flyover Conservatives Show, we sat down with Pastor Doug Wilson to confront America's moral collapse and what God requires for national repentance. He explains why abortion, same-sex marriage, and the rise of the administrative state are provoking divine judgment—and how the church has become complicit. Doug reveals the only path left for America to turn away from destruction and return to biblical order.TO WATCH ALL FLYOVER CONTENT: www.theflyoverapp.com TO WATCH ALL FLYOVER CONTENT: www.theflyoverapp.com Follow and Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheFlyoverConservativesShow Follow and Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheFlyoverConservativesShow To Schedule A Time To Talk To Dr. Dr. Kirk Elliott Go To To Schedule A Time To Talk To Dr. Dr. Kirk Elliott Go To ▶ https://flyovergold.com▶ https://flyovergold.comOr Call 720-605-3900 Or Call 720-605-3900 ► Receive your FREE 52 Date Night Ideas Playbook to make date night more exciting, go to www.prosperousmarriage.com► Receive your FREE 52 Date Night Ideas Playbook to make date night more exciting, go to www.prosperousmarriage.comPastor Doug WilsonPastor Doug WilsonWEBSITE: www.cannonpress.com WEBSITE: www.cannonpress.comwww.cannonpress.com WEBSITE: https://dougwils.com/ WEBSITE: https://dougwils.com/https://dougwils.Send us a message... we can't reply, but we read them all!Support the show► ReAwaken America- text the word FLYOVER to 918-851-0102 (Message and data rates may apply. Terms/privacy: 40509-info.com) ► Kirk Elliott PHD - http://FlyoverGold.com ► My Pillow - https://MyPillow.com/Flyover ► ALL LINKS: https://sociatap.com/FlyoverConservatives

Send us a text As we start our episode coverage of the Fight Laugh Feast "School Wars" Conference, we had to start big. Greg sat down with Doug Wilson and discussed the top 5 excuses Greg has gotten from well meaning christians on why they DO NOT homeschool their children. Have you heard these before? Are the valid reasons or are they just excuses? Listen in to hear Doug respond to each one! Enjoy! Click HERE for your free consultation with Dominion Wealth Strategists Click HERE for your complete seating and furnishing needs from K&K Furnishings Facebook: Dead Men Walking PodcastYoutube: Dead Men Walking PodcastInstagram: @DeadMenWalkingPodcastTwitter X: @RealDMWPodcastExclusive Content: PubTV AppSupport the show Get your free consultation with Dominion Wealth Strategists today! The only distinctly reformed wealth company! CLICK HERE! 1689 Cigars: The absolute best cigars on earth! Check out out the Dead Men Walking snarky merch HERE! Build something for God's glory through Covenant Real Estate! Greg Moore Jr. can help you buy, sell, and invest! Call him at (734) 731-GREG or visit www.covenant.realestate

It has been announced that Gary and Doug Wilson will discuss eschatology in a three-hour event in Moscow, Idaho in early November. Gary discusses this opportunity as well as some of the critics voicing their opposition to it due to "platforming heresy." It is a tired play that has been done before.

On last week’s podcast I sat down with Pastor Doug Wilson in Moscow, Idaho. Today I’ve got another special guest for the first half of the podcast, my lovely daughter Abby who just had a birthday this week (hint: she’s old enough to drive but yet an “adult”). Here’s how you can follow her and her artwork: https://www.instagram.com/abriana.isabel_art/ And here’s a book that she illustrated: https://www.amazon.com/Snowy-Love-Story-Timothy-Yeahquo/dp/B0DJBYNP14/ Follow me on X (@chinaadventures) where (among other things) I post new China city prayer profiles every single day. Feel free to send any notes or comments to bfwesten at gmail dot com and find much more, including my missionary biographies, at PrayGiveGo.us! After Abby and I talk all about our adventures in Australia and awful boat rides in Malaysia, we discuss one article that brings up a point in which I disagree slightly with Doug Wilson… China’s Robotics Advances Have Western Executives Terrified https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/10/12/why-western-executives-visit-china-coming-back-terrified/ In the second half of the podcast, I work through the following stories (especially the first): China Detains Influential House Church Pastor https://www.christianitytoday.com/2025/10/ezra-jin-zion-house-church-china-detain/ Pastors and Staff from Underground Church Arrested in China https://www.npr.org/2025/10/12/nx-s1-5571936/zion-church-ezra-jin-arrest-china-christian China’s nationwide SIM farm network directly threatens American critical infrastructure https://www.theblaze.com/news/exclusive-china-behind-massive-nationwide-sim-farm-network-that-directly-threatens-american-critical-infrastructure Chinese SIM farms are radicalizing Americans and destabilizing society, intel experts say https://www.theblaze.com/news/chinese-sim-farms-are-radicalizing-americans-and-destabilizing-society-intel-experts-say Pray for China places of the week (Follow @chinaadventures for daily updates) https://chinacall.substack.com/p/pray-for-china-oct-20-26-2025 Subscribe to China Compass and leave a review on your preferred podcast platform. Follow us on X (@chinaadventures), and find much more @ PrayGiveGo.us. Luke 10, verse 2, the harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Talk again soon!

This week we're looking at Trumponomics, how Nazified the GOP and country at large has become, and Doug Wilson's vision for a theocratic dictatorship Support us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/trillbillyworkersparty

The other day I sat down with Pastor Doug Wilson in Moscow, Idaho to have a conversation on all things China. I was excited to get his perspective, since he has personally lived through much of China’s modern communist history. I was not disappointed. In our 30+ minute conversation, we touched on many topics including the Great Leap Forward, Mao’s Great Famine, Doug’s Submarine Adventures with a Taiwanese crew, the China Legacies of Richard Nixon and Jimmy Carter, the Tiananmen Square massacre (and revival), China’s modern-day revival, C.S. Lewis’s 1946 China optimism vs. Doug’s (short-term) pessimism, Hebrews 13:3 and how to pray for the persecuted, and PrayforChina.us’s helpful strategy! Follow me on X (@chinaadventures) where I post new China city prayer profiles every single day. Feel free to send any notes or comments via email @ bfwesten at gmail dot com Find much more about our work in Asia, including my missionary biographies, at PrayGiveGo.us! Frank Dikotter (Dutch, not German) on China https://www.frankdikotter.com/ https://www.amazon.com/Maos-Great-Famine-Devastating-Catastrophe/dp/1408886367 Jimmy Carter’s Complicated China Legacy https://www.crosspoliticnews.com/news/jimmy-carters-complicated-china-legacy The C.S. Lewis China Letters https://chinacall.substack.com/p/the-cs-lewis-china-letters C.S. Lewis, Burnt Marshwiggle, and the Brainwashing of Richard Wurmbrand https://chinacall.substack.com/p/cs-lewis-burnt-marshwiggle-and-the The NBA, LeBron James, and China https://www.crosspoliticnews.com/news/nba-back-in-bed-with-china Pray for China places of the week (Follow @chinaadventures for daily updates) https://open.substack.com/pub/chinacall/p/pray-for-china-oct-13-19-2025 Subscribe to China Compass and leave a review on your preferred podcast platform. Follow us on X (@chinaadventures), and find much more @ PrayGiveGo.us. Luke 10, verse 2, the harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Talk again soon!

Evangelical pastor and self-proclaimed Christian nationalist Doug Wilson has been preaching for decades that America needs to reclaim its Puritan past. But in 2025, he believes he's “significantly” more influential. Does that mean America is closer to Wilson's goal of theocracy? In this episode, nothing is off limits — even Ross's own salvation.01:36 - Doug Wilson's vision for a Christian nation08:37 - Wilson's ideal theocratic republic19:12 - Theocracy and religious diversity30:50 - Do women have rights in this new republic?36:59 - Christendom and slavery46:50 - How far does Wilson's influence go in a “clown world”?59:54 - Calvinism activism and quietism(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Everything sort of hooked up nicely today on the show, from talking about a Baptist converting to Anglicanism, into providing a response to a Roman Catholic on what true peace is (and how we obtain it) to my responding to Doug Wilson's comments to Ross Douthat on what it means to be a Christian and whether Roman Catholicism presents, or obscures, that reality.

Tim, Phil, & Ian are joined by Doug Wilson to discuss Trump to deploy National Guard troops to Portland, Oregon, Speaker Mike Johnson revealing Trump was an FBI informant against Epstein, ICE raiding a Hyundai factory, and Tuberculosis cases rising in America.   Hosts:  Tim @Timcast (everywhere) Phil @PhilThatRemains (X) Ian @IanCrossland (everywhere) Serge @SergeDotCom (everywhere) Guest: Douglas Wilson