Podcasts about Northern Alberta

Listen to Rev. Dr. Ray Aldred, a respected theologian, pastor, and teacher being interviewed by Rev. Dr. Andrew Stirling. Ray is a status Cree from Swan River Band, Treaty 8, and is the Director of the Indigenous Studies Program at the Vancouver School of Theology. In this episode, Ray talks about the gospel being the central foundation of our faith, and how that translates into any heart language, resulting in transformed lives.Read the transcript: biblesociety.ca/transcript-scripture-untangled-s10-ep3---Learn more about the Canadian Bible Society: biblesociety.caHelp people hear God speak: biblesociety.ca/donateConnect with us on Instagram: @canadianbiblesocietyWhether you're well-versed in Scripture or just starting out on your journey, The Bible Course offers a superb overview of the world's best-selling book.  This eight-session course will help you grow in your understanding of the Bible. Watch the first session of The Bible Course and learn more at biblecourse.ca. ---Rev. Dr. Ray Aldred is a husband, father, and grandfather. He was first ordained with the Christian and Missionary Alliance in Canada and is now ordained with the Anglican Church of Canada. He is status Cree from Swan River Band, Treaty 8. Born in Northern Alberta, he now resides with his wife in Richmond, British Columbia, Canada. Ray is the Director of the Indigenous Studies Program at the Vancouver School of Theology whose mission is to partner with the Indigenous Church around theological education.Formerly, Ray served as the Assistant Professor of Theology at Ambrose Seminary in Calgary, Alberta and a former chairperson and board member for Indigenous Pathways. He is a former Director for the First Nations Alliance Churches of Canada, and is now a committee member, where he works to encourage Indigenous churches. Ray has also had the privilege of addressing several college conferences and meetings. His passion is to help as many people as possible hear the gospel in their heart language.Ray and his wife, Elaine have also been involved in ministry to help train people to facilitate support groups for people who have suffered abuse. Elaine and Ray have also coordinated Marriage Encounter. Ray and Elaine have four adult children, Jenny, who has graduated from the University of Regina and the Alliance University College, a school teacher, is married and lives in Richmond, British Columbia, Canada; Raymond, who is pursuing a PhD in Philosophy at McGill University; Catherine, has earned an MA in Religions Studies at McGill University; and Rueben who works in the Oil Field in Northern Alberta.

In this episode, we welcomed Indigenous influencer James Jones (aka Notorious Cree), a dancer and youth educator. James Jones is Nehiyaw from Tall Cree First Nation in Treaty 8 Territory in Northern Alberta, Canada. Listen as we discuss dance and performance as a form of free expression, and emphasize the significance of preserving Indigenous cultures. James Jones seeks to pass on tradition to the next generation and uses social media to reach a wider and diverse audience. You can find James Jones @NotoriousCree on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook.A transcript for this episode can be found here:https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/i6e5W9owikxqqFacdB3TINRUwqP9ohW36UOA3h9ky1udqI40KaUrJw79Tb7gaKmXUioJlnq4TOlOqIiXsehel4bCnaE?loadFrom=SharedLink

Sports change lives but access isn't equal for everyone. In this episode of TSI Today, host Chad Tomaschefski visits Sports Central in Edmonton to chat with Janna Tominuk about how they're providing free sports equipment to kids in need across Northern Alberta. Learn how you can support the movement, donate gear, or get involved in making sports accessible for all. Watch now and help bring the game to every child!#YYCBusiness #TSIToday #SportsForAll #SupportingCommunities #YouthSports #SportsCentral #PlayItForward #AlbertaNonprofit #AccessToSports #CommunityImpactAbout our Guest: Janna Tominuk is a passionate advocate for youth sports accessibility and a key leader at Sports Central, an organization dedicated to ensuring every child can play, regardless of financial barriers.You can connect with Janna on LinkedIn and visit Sports Central! About Chad and TSI Today: Chad is the Chief Growth Officer at Tridon Communications. He brings his unique global insights into complex international business models, and expertise at refining customized programs for the ever-evolving technology driven world to the show.You can connect with Chad on LinkedIn! TSI Today highlights the changes and challenges businesses face when implementing ever-evolving technologies, as experienced by fellow local entrepreneurs and business leaders. The goal of the show; lifting up the industry and companies in the industry by bringing awareness to the technology and best practices. Sponsored by Tridon Communications. TSI Today is also the ideal choice to showcase your expertise. Promote your services and know how on TSI Today and:· Reach a global audience via the YYC Business website and the MegaPixxMedia YouTube channel. · Gain additional viewers of your TSI Today episodes through free publication on YYC Calgary Business social media platforms. · Download your TSI Today episode to your personal and company social media pages.Episodes are also available in podcast format and you can listen to them on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and Google Podcasts. Filmed and edited by ENTA Solutions.

On Today's episode of The CLS Experience, Connor Beaton, the visionary behind Man Talks is unpacking shadow work and how to navigate toxic masculinity. We unravel the concept of the shadow self and how confronting the darker, often hidden facets of our personalities can lead to profound transformation. Let's go deep. On today's episode of The CLS Experience we have a very exclusive treat. Born and raised in Alberta, Canada, his journey is one of transformation AND self-discovery, BIG facts. From working in the frozen gravel pits of Northern Alberta, singing opera around the world, to becoming a market leader at Apple, his diverse experiences have shaped his unique perspective on life and manhood, which I deeply admire. His dedication to personal growth led him to diving deep into the realms of the human psyche, shadow work, and the transformative power of self-awareness. This journey culminated in the founding of ManTalks in 2014, an initiative that has grown into a global online men's group, a top-ranked podcast, retreats, courses, and MUCH more. Through ManTalks, he seeks to support men in their journey towards mental clarity, relational communication, and realizing their fullest potential, NO big deal. His no-BS attitude, coupled with a compassionate understanding of human limitations, has made him a sought-after coach, facilitator, teacher, and speaker. He's just a juggernaut in all facets of life, and a terrific human being. Please welcome the insightful, brilliant and handsome, the curious and transformative, Connor Beaton.10:49 - Unpacking the Shadow21:03 - Mastering Influence and Acceptance25:00 - Developing Competency and Facing Resistance32:20 - Exploring Dark Shadows With Support37:44 - Navigating Personal Darkness and Toxic Masculinity48:13 - Understanding Male Suicide and SupportGrab a copy of Connor's Book here: https://mantalks.com/book/To join our community click here.➤ To connect with Connor Beaton follow Connor on Instagram➤ Order a copy of my new book The Reinvention Formula today! ➤ Join our CLS texting community for free daily inspiration and business strategies to elevate your day, text (917) 634-3796To follow The CLS Experience and connect with Craig on Social Media:➤ INSTAGRAM➤ FACEBOOK➤ TIKTOK➤ YOUTUBE➤ WEBSITE➤ LINKEDIN➤ X

Looking for Spirituality with Rev. Dr. Ray Aldred Luke 2:41-52 Reverend Doctor Ray Aldred is a husband, father, and grandfather. He was first ordained with the Christian and Missionary Alliance in Canada and is now ordained with the Anglican Church of Canada. He is status Cree from Swan River Band, Treaty 8.  Born in Northern Alberta, he now resides with his wife in Richmond, British Columbia, Canada.  Ray is the director of the Indigenous Studies Program at the Vancouver School of Theology whose mission is to partner with the Indigenous Church around theological education.  Ray's passion is to help as many as possible hear the gospel in their heart language.

Tonight I will be welcoming Waylon and Reno from Albert, Canada. I will also be speaking to Angel from GA. Reno writes "Hey Wes, been a listener of your show for a while now and I had a strange encounter on Thanksgiving (Canadian thanksgiving Oct 14th). Been hesitant to contact you about it but I thought you might want to hear it. I'm located in Northern Alberta. I'll start from the absolute start, my brother and a family friend went hunting around two years ago a few miles from my family friends house down an overgrown cut line that turns very swampy. My brother and him are avid hunters. It rained the night before and the ground was very soft as they went in on ATVs so my brother got off to see how bad one spot was to cross and noticed large footprints in the ground spacing around 8 feet apart in a straight line. They both never seen anything like that before so after leaving my brother came back to the spot and casted the track (I can send photos of the tracks and the print he casted) Fast forward to this Thanksgiving. Our family friend now lives in a different location, with a butcher living at that house. The butcher got a blood infection around a month before Thanksgiving and was in the hospital, so nobody was staying at that house for around a month. Me and my brother went to that place at around 11pm on the night before thanksgiving to use his smokehouse to smoke a biscuit for thanksgiving the next day. I stayed in my truck that was parked towards the overhead doors listening to music while it smoked while my brother stayed in the shop. I'm not very easily creeped out at all but the entire time I kept looking over my shoulder into the woods. I just had an eerie feeling the entire time sitting waiting for the meat to finish smoking. We finished up went back to my place in town and cooked it. Fast forward to Thanksgiving day. Me and my brother went back at around 2pm in the afternoon to use the shops butcher equipment to cut and package the meat. While my brother was inside I went to my truck to charge my vape. Across the gravel road lies a run down yard where a farmer has a run down trailer without siding with white paper exposed half blowing off and a couple of old beat up trashed vehicles. As I looked up after plugging in my vape I noticed through an opening in the trees there was a black figure that resembled a head moving out from behind the trees looking at me and moving back in, doing this continuously. I only noticed it because the white siding paper was directly behind it so it really stood out and it was the only thing moving because there was no wind that day. I stared at it for a few minutes trying to figure out what I was looking at and my brother eventually came looking for me and I pointed it out to him. We came to the conclusion that it was probably a person on a deck moving stuff in and out of the trailer. He went back inside and I kept looking at it and waved. About a minute after my brother went inside and after I waved this figure really started swaying fully into the opening and back behind the trees. I heard on your podcast of them doing this sort of thing but I blew it off thinking yeah right this has to be a person. I'm always teasing my brother about Bigfoot and now I'm seeing this from a yard that's a 10 minute drive from town? I eventually went inside helped my brother pack the meat and we left. There was no vehicle parked on the road or in the yard when we drove by and there was no deck on the side of the trailer where I saw the figure. That creeped me right out. We went back the next day to check out the yard and see if we could see if there was any evidence of something being there. We didn't find anything but I dropped my brother off exactly where the opening was and went back to the same spot in the yard where I stood the previous day to gauge how tall this was (I thought there was a deck where it was because it was so high up). There was an old junk truck near the opening and my brother stood inside of the door and put his hand all the way in the air and I could see the bottom of his fingers through the opening. After seeing that I got chills man. My brother is 6'3'' so whatever we saw was extremely tall. Would love to come on the show and talk about it if you'd like, don't want to use my actual name though. I feel like here in Northern Alberta Bigfoot encounters aren't too uncommon, I've heard accounts from family friends and my grandfather had a man that worked for him with a strange encounter building a dam with a family of the workers work from the other side of the river."   Angel writes "I writing to let you know of some encounters I have had over the years. My first encounter took place in Gordon County , Sugar Valley Ga near Johns Mountain in the early fall of 2013 when this encounter took place it was myself, my ex husband, my mother, and inlaws, we were in what they call the upper field checking on the pumpkins they had planted after my in laws got done checking on everything we were all standing around talking when all of sudden a tree falls, keep in mind we hadn't had any rain in weeks and the ground was super dry, and no wind was blowing, I made the comment it's weird the tree just falls and jokingly i said maybe its a bigfoot and my mother in law laughs it off and states trees fall all the time, I remember my father in law as well having to put scarecrows up to get animals out of the crops, i remember several times him saying the watermelons and pumpkins being spilt open in halves it appeared something had purposely spilt them open and were eating the inside , this property boarder's the WMA . the second incident happened in a different area of the same property, a few weeks after the tree fall, my ex husband and I had just pulled in our drive way when his cousin came running out of the house with his shotgun saying something tall and dark was trying to get the chickens , he had fired his shot gun towards the chicken coop, and the upright figure ran off, i asked him was it a bear and he said no a bear doesn't run upright on 2 feet, i went into the house and came out a few minutes later to get something out of the car when i noticed a huge footprint, i called my ex husband and his cousin over to look at it and his cousin said thats no average foot print. keep in mind it had been raining and the footprint was very distinct that was the only noticeable foot print as the rest of the area was grassy. we guessimated the footprint was about 14 inches in length, and about 8 inches in width after noticing the footprint we just brushed it off an went back into the house, nothing else happened after that. the final incident happened in the winter of 2013 in a little community in gordon county ga called nickelsville on hwy 136 , me and my niece had just left my parents house and it was right at dusk my niece was driving and had turned onto hwy 136 off of hwy 225 heading back towards Resaca when a large upright hair covered creature crossed the road in front of us the creature crossed from left to right and took 2 steps to completely cross the road, my niece freaked out slammed on breaks and stopped in the middle of the road and asked what fuck was that , we were both shocked and terrified at what we had just seen, my niece was so upset that i had to drive home. we guessimated it to be around 7 feet tall. it scared my niece so bad that she didnt wanna go on that road for a long time, keep in mind this about 20 miles from fort mtn where there has been numerous sasquatch encounters."

Conversations In Ken's Café with Christine Campbell from ALUS   Christine Campbell Senior Hub Manager, Western Hub   Christine liaises with our community coordinators and serves as a management resource for local ALUS projects throughout Alberta. Christine has extensive reclamation and project-management experience with collaborative research groups working in the Athabasca Oil Sands Region. She has also worked extensively with non-profits, chairing boards for animal rescue and many local events and initiatives. Christine obtained her B.Sc. in Biological Sciences from the University of Calgary, where she focused on wildlife conservation and genetics, and holds a Diploma in Animal Sciences. An entrepreneur with her own consulting agency, Christine continues to act as wildlife and biodiversity expert and advocate for First Nations stakeholders in Northern Alberta. Christine is based in Calgary, Alberta.   https://alus.ca/ https://x.com/ALUS_Solutions https://www.facebook.com/ALUSCanada https://www.youtube.com/user/ALUSCanada https://www.linkedin.com/company/alus-canada/   Your Host Ken Somerville “It's All About The Biology” https://www.instagram.com/kensomerville/ https://twitter.com/KenSomerville1 https://www.itsallaboutthebiology.ca Contact email itsallaboutthebiology@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/ken-somerville-6b9945239/ https://www.facebook.com/itsallaboutthebiologytour   Help support the mission: patreon.com/user?u=104510089   Discount codes available at: https://www.itsallaboutthebiology.ca/discountcodes #flowers,#plants,#nature,#gardening,#garden,#growing,#koreannaturalfarming,#naturalfarming,#jadam,#naturalfertilizer,#naturalfarminginputs,#permaculture,#regenerative,#foodforest,#biodynamic,#bioactive,#organic,#notill,#knf,#organicgardening,#urbangardening,#containergardening,#homegardening, For Full: Disclaimer

In this episode of the Forty Drinks Podcast, Fran Caudron opens up about her upbringing in a strict Catholic family, her early marriage to an addict, and the subsequent emotional turmoil. She discusses how her deep dive into different spiritual paths, including evangelical Christianity and a transformative retreat, helped her rediscover hope and strength. Fran also highlights the importance of community, the powerful impact of somatic experiences, and the lifelong process of self-improvement through programs like the 12-step initiative. Fran's story illustrates the ongoing journey towards inner peace and happiness.Guest Bio Fran Caudron spent a 34 year career as a highly skilled, creative, and motivated master elementary educator in Northern Alberta, Canada; from which she recently retired and continues to work as an adult educator and healer through hypnotherapy.She is humbled and fortunate to have had a wealth of collaborative opportunities working alongside Indigenous elders and community leaders. Open minded and responsive to the impact and influence of culture, experiences and family on student learners, she has a proven success rate at supporting and teaching diverse learners and Indigenous students. Her leadership is based on collegiality, creativity and awareness. With a strong background in teaching Indigenous students and diverse students from high risk environments, her pedagogy aligns with the holism of mind-body-spirit, and how students, parents and the community can teach educators, and together, heal the education system.Fran experienced intense internal spiritual growth through surrendering to the 12 step program of recovery, and furthered her growth with a masters in Religious Education. She is a trained hypnotherapist and in her weekly vlog called “Hopenning” she interviews authors and healers who promote hope and inner spirit healing.Today, Fran thrives by creating an attitude and environment of gratitude, resilience, and forgiveness. She teaches pre-service teachers from Indigenous and other backgrounds through the University of Alberta on-line and next September, in-person and she continues to promote recovery through her work with the 12 steps and by healing the inner child.Turning Forty and 12-Stepping My Way to HappinessFran Caudron joins Stephanie to share her story of resilience and transformation after leaving a controlling marriage marred by addiction and betrayal. Raised in a traditional Catholic family and influenced by evangelical beliefs, Fran initially felt trapped in a life that didn't align with her true self. Her story unfolds as she learns to break free from deeply ingrained beliefs, rebuild her identity, and find healing through a weeklong retreat, spiritual exploration, and the strength of community. This episode dives deep into themes of accountability, self-love, and the power of somatic experiences in processing buried emotions.Episode Highlights:Roots of Restriction: Fran's upbringing in a strict Catholic family and subsequent involvement in evangelical Christianity added layers of control and suppression, especially around the roles of women and the stigma of divorce.Marriage as a “Fix”: In her early twenties, Fran believed marriage and children could “fix” existing relationship issues, a notion that only led to deeper despair.The Breaking Point: At 38, Fran's discovery of her husband's infidelity was the final push she needed to seek a new life for herself and her daughters.Healing Through Retreat: A transformative retreat on Vancouver Island introduced Fran to somatic healing, where she learned to process and release her pent-up anger and pain, finding solidarity with others who shared similar emotional struggles.Building a New Life: With the support of a 12-step program, Fran redefined her values and set boundaries that allowed her to grow spiritually...

Through the eyes of 12 year old cousins enjoying summertime fun on a Cree Reservation in Northern Alberta, Canada, middle grade readers learn about the atrocities of Indian Residential Schools, history not widely known in Canada and the United States. Transcript here

https://suespeaks.org/ Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon - and Abraham Maslow. It's closer than you think. I wrote earlier this week about how Maslow's hierarchy of needs had a profound effect on me in my early years. I discovered Maslow's hierarchy of needs when I was eleven years old. Understanding that hierarchy as an eleven-year-old made me feel that I was enlightened; like I knew something most other people didn't. I didn't know the whole story. Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a very useful tool. However, I had never considered that it comes from a very distinct worldview with its own assumptions and biases. That doesn't make it wrong or evil, just incomplete. I only recently learned how incomplete. In 1938, Maslow traveled to Northern Alberta, Canada where one of four Blackfoot (also known as the Siksika) Nations is located. This was the traditional territory of the Blackfoot Nation. Maslow spent six weeks with the Blackfoot Nation as part of his research. Analysis of his work shows that he really didn't understand their ways of knowing. It appears that Maslow may have been influenced by the Blackfoot. Later in his life, he questioned his hierarchy, but it does not appear he based his hierarchy on their worldview. A common criticism of Maslow's hierarchy is that it is rather individualistic, and comes from an individual-centered society, not a collective-focused society. Maslow found the Blackfoot “a very generous people” and said, “They seem definitely not to have any major anxieties or repressed aggression.” These were things he was expecting, because they were prominent in the world he came from, and he found it odd that a culture could be less anxious and less aggressive than what he had known from his previous experiences. Maslow describes their society as unusual. From his point of view, it was. Maslow experienced the Blackfoot people from a very Euro-centric point of view. He didn't come out and say that their culture was inferior, but by calling it unusual he seems to be categorizing it as something “less than” his own. I'm not being overly critical of Maslow. He was a man of his time, and I'm not surprised by the reactions of a white man in an Indigenous culture 80 years ago being one of misunderstanding and bemusement. He isn't dismissive of the Blackfoot people. He liked and admired them. But he didn't seem to get it. He didn't seem to understand that the Blackfoot way of looking at the world could be superior to his in some ways or could lead to better outcomes. Maslow's perspective was narrow. He had not had many cultural experiences outside of European traditions. He didn't understand their culture. It looks like he may have understood them better later in life, but we will get to that. First, let's learn more about the Blackfoot worldview.

The new silesaur Gondwanax was named from Southern Brazil and may show a transition between silesaurs and neornithischians; The new tyrannosaurid Labocania aguillonae helps solidify Labocania as a true tyrannosaurid; Plus a new huge Pachyrhinosaurus skull and a new Mesozoic swimming bird.For links to every news story, all of the details we shared about Kwanasaurus, and our fun fact check out https://iknowdino.com/Kwanasaurus-Episode-515/Join us at www.patreon.com/iknowdino for dinosaur requests, bonus content, ad-free episodes, and more.Dinosaur of the day Kwanasaurus, a silesaur known for its teeth and jaws that seem like they were evolved for eating plants.In dinosaur news this week:A new, giant, Pachyrhinosaurus (ceratopsian) skull nicknamed “Big Sam” was found in Northern Alberta, CanadaThere's a new silesaur, Gondwanax paraisensis, from Southern BrazilThere's a new tyrannosaurid species, Labocania aguillonae, from Northern MexicoThere's a new euornithean bird, Shuilingornis angelai, is one of the earliest known birds with semi-aquatic features Our 2024 Holiday Gift Guide is available now! Find the perfect gift for the dinosaur enthusiast in your life (or yourself). This year's guide features real dinosaur teeth, a color your own dinosaur postcard book, dinosaur collectibles, toys, and more! Head to iknowdino.com/the-ultimate-dinosaur-holiday-gift-guide/ to see the full list of gift ideas.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

All the way from Northern Alberta, Canada, Mae Renfroe shares her message of hope found only in Jesus and this hope kept her anchored even as she experienced 3 losses in 3 years. Tune in and you will be encouraged. Plug into her website to learn more about Mae @ www.maerenfroe.com If you have a story of God's deliverance, healing and restoration or a response to His love and want to share, visit https://bit.ly/eteypodcast To learn more about how you can purchase my books including newest journal - The Gladitude Journal visit https://bewindijackson.com/books To learn how you can travel more for less, visit https://againstalloddspcs.com/travel To subscribe to our newsletter visit www.againstalloddspcs.com --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bewindi-aquilla-bobb/support

ABOUT THIS EPISODE: In this episode, we revisit our interview from 2019 with Darrel McLeod. Darrel passed away this week and his loss is being felt by the writing and reading community across Canada. Darrel's books were captivating and vulnerable letting people into his life and stories. Darrel McLeod was the author of Mamaskatch, Peyakow, and A Season in Chezgh'un. A Season in Chezgh'un is a finalist for the 2024 Ethel Wilson Fiction Prize. ABOUT DARREL McLEOD: Darrel J. McLeod is Cree from Treaty-8 territory in Northern Alberta. Before deciding to pursue writing, he worked as an educator, chief negotiator of land claims for the federal government and executive director of education and international affairs with the Assembly of First Nations. He holds degrees in French literature and education from the University of British Columbia. He is the author of two memoirs: the award-winning Mamaskatch (2018; winner of the Governor General's Literary Award for Nonfiction; shortlisted for many other major prizes; translated into French and German editions), followed by Peyakow (2021) which was also shortlisted for several literary prizes. He currently lives in Sooke, BC, and divides his time between writing and singing in a jazz band. ABOUT MEGAN COLE: Megan Cole the Director of Programming and Communications for the BC and Yukon Book Prizes. She is also a writer based on the territory of the Tla'amin Nation. Megan writes creative nonfiction and has had essays published in Chatelaine, This Magazine, The Puritan, Untethered, and more. She has her MFA in creative nonfiction from the University of King's College and is working her first book. Find out more about Megan at megancolewriter.com ABOUT THE PODCAST:Writing the Coast is recorded and produced on the territory of the Tla'amin Nation. As a settler on these lands, Megan Cole finds opportunities to learn and listen to the stories from those whose land was stolen. Writing the Coast is a recorded series of conversations, readings, and insights into the work of the writers, illustrators, and creators whose books are nominated for the annual BC and Yukon Book Prizes. We'll also check in on people in the writing community who are supporting books, writers and readers every day. The podcast is produced and hosted by Megan Cole.

Girls Inc. of Northern Alberta, former RMWB Councillors Mike Allen and Sheldon Germain, and former Mayor Don Scott all join the show to pay tribute to Jane Stroud.

Join Tim Sweet in an enlightening conversation with Peter Root, co-founder of Wildfire Robotics. They delve into the intersection of technology and wildfire management, emphasizing how a relationship-based approach can revolutionize traditional methods. Peter shares his journey from oil and gas drilling to creating a groundbreaking robotic snake designed to combat wildfires. This episode highlights the critical role of leadership in fostering innovation and building strong relationships with both technology and the environment.Peter Root discusses the importance of understanding and adapting to the changing nature of wildfires, influenced by climate change and human expansion. He explains how Wildfire Robotics' innovative technology offers a proactive and strategic solution to wildfire management. This episode offers leaders ways to cultivate valuable relationships and how to take your own adventure into real life. About Peter RootPeter Root is the co-founder of Wildfire Robotics, a company dedicated to innovating wildfire management through advanced robotics. An engineer by training, Peter moved to Alberta in 2013 and has since developed a passion for creating technologies that can significantly impact communities affected by wildfires. His work combines his love for the outdoors with his expertise in robotics, aiming to provide safer and more efficient fire management solutions.Resources discussed in this episode:Startup TNTFirewall Robotic Snake--Contact Tim Sweet | Team Work Excellence: WebsiteLinkedIn: Tim SweetInstagramLinkedin: Team Work ExcellenceContact Peter Root | Wildfire Robotics: Website: wildfirerobotics.comLinkedin: Peter Root--Transcript:Peter 00:01You got to get to something of value as fast as you can. And so we did that, I think by design, which was actually very fulfilling as well, you know, as a sometimes impatient engineer, I love that we could get feedback on what we're building so quickly. Tim 00:18I'd like to ask you some questions. Do you consider yourself the kind of person that gets things done? Are you able to take a vision and transform that into action? Are you able to align others towards that vision and get them moving to create something truly remarkable? If any of these describe you, then you, my friend, are a leader, and this show is all about and all for you. I'm Tim Sweet, welcome to the Sweet on Leadership podcast. This is episode 38.Tim 00:49Hi, everybody, I hope you're having a great week. Joining me today is Peter Root. I am really excited to welcome Peter to the show today, Peter and I met a while back when he was part of Startup TNT here in Calgary. He's an all-around, pretty exciting guy with an exciting technology that he's bringing into the world. And I'm just so glad that he can come on the show today. And we can chew around some leadership ideas in the context of his experience and what he's going through right now. So, thank you very much for joining me, Peter. Peter 01:21Thank you very much for having me. Tim 01:22So, for the benefit of everybody that's listening, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and Wildfire Robotics?  Peter 01:29Sure. So, I'm an engineer by training and I moved to Alberta in 2013. And I grew up on Vancouver Island. So, I have a passion for being outdoors, you know, those two places are, are quite good Mecca is for exploring the outdoors. And I didn't have a firm relationship with wildfires until about 2016. And I think a lot of people in Alberta, that was a pivotal year. And I had two friends who live there and they got the call to evacuate. And they had to leave within 15 minutes. And through before that time, I built sort of technologies in oil and gas drilling and a bunch of different areas and really grew passionate about building robotics, things that you can control to do novel things and to automate tasks or mechanized tasks that led me into this wildfire world. So, it really hits a lot of key passions of mine, which are being outdoors, robotics, and something that can give back to communities, you know, especially communities that have been affected by wildfires in the past. Tim 02:24So this would have been Fort Mac, back in the day, Fort McMurray. Massive fire in an entire city, for those of you that aren't aware. Northern Alberta was evacuated, there was a fair amount of destruction. And we realized just how hard it was to react in certain environments. And this is only increasing as we're seeing the effects of climate change and warming. And we seem to be on a trend right now. So, this is, you know, this is something that's in the news last year, it's going to be in the news this year, we're there. But I can imagine seeing your friends having to evacuate and seeing the human toll that made this foray into a brand new innovative technology possible for you. Tell us a little bit about the innovation that you brought, and how you would sort of conceptualize that? Peter 03:16Before I go there trying to do a startup is no easy task. And so you want to make sure that you're doing something that you care about. And something that has an impact. Doing something in wildfire is very meaningful, and can provide a lot of feedback in good and bad ways when you do it. So, it's a good place to be. So, the innovation actually comes from my co-founder and partner. His name is Allan Richardson. He was actually my boss before we joined together doing this. And he's innovated a lot in his career in different areas, but primarily in oil and gas drilling, which is directional drilling. So, you're trying to punch something through the earth and steer it where you need to go. And then you're distributing fluids or communication signals along the length of it to do various things. And if you can take that concept of putting together long, skinny things and going kilometres into the earth, just thinking about doing that on land. And instead of oil and gas things, you're moving water or retardant. And instead of fracking for fluids, you're spraying water strategically. So, you can stop the advance of a fire or you can mop up a fire or you can monitor the perimeter of a fire so that if things flare up again, you can address it. And the way that we get that thing that long conduit there is through a robotic so, we have a really long robotic snake and it can go long distances over rough terrain. And that can be you know, a kilometer, two kilometers, 10 kilometers. And then we can remotely control the distribution of water anywhere along its length. And so that's where the innovation came from. Really it was taking something that worked well in oil and gas drilling, said hey, can we leverage all of the knowledge and skills that we've accumulated and can we put it into something else and apply that something different? And it's a great place to start because you know certain elements of technology that will certainly work because you've seen it work before. But then you have new challenges, you know, especially the terrain that you're going through is quite challenging in a lot of these fire prone areas. Tim 05:07What we'll do is we'll put up a link to your site so that people can visit and take a look at exactly what this large robotic snake looks like, as it's crawling between trees and dragging hose behind it and these kinds of things. It is phenomenal. It's really, really interesting. And you and I talked a lot about first principles and the importance of those. And I'm hearing that now as you're going through sort of dissecting, well what hasn't been applied in a in a fire context, in a sense, right now. Can you tell us a little bit about how that thinking from yourself or from Allan was adopted as you seek to both develop this thing, but also then share it story and explain to people why it's different and how it overcomes some constraints that we've accepted for years?  Peter 05:59Yeah, I want to back up to and talk about fire a little bit before I talk about that first principle. I think it's important. And you mentioned it a little bit after I mentioned Fort McMurray. But it does seem, you know, I think the general person can sort of observe that these fires have gone from something that I didn't know much about, to something that I hear about and smell and feel the effects of every year, or I know someone who was evacuated. And it seems like it was about 10 years ago, where that switch was flipped. It really changed everyone's perception. So, people started looking at it. And so did Allan and I. We really looked at, well, why are these fires happening the way they are now and what's different than before. And there's really three main factors. So, one of the factors is that we have over-suppressed fires, we have been so good at putting them out for about 100 years that we've exacerbated fuel accumulation, instead of letting fires do their natural and inevitable thing where they go and they are low-intensity fires, they burn just along the forest floor, but not the actual big trees, they reduced fuel loads, they actually, they actually provide some ecological benefit to certain types of species that has been curtailed by our efforts. The second thing is there are more things we care about where fires burnt, we have humans have expanded on the landscape at an enormous pace. Where do we want to live, we want to live in the forest we want to live where there's a nice view, we want to live in the mountains and those are all places that are fire-prone and need fire. And so now there are more things to protect when fires burn. So, if a fire does get out, there's a higher likelihood that it will interact with something we care about. And then the third thing is related to a shift into drier and hotter summers. There's about a three to six-week increase in the total length for fires to burn. And a big factor of that is that there's less water moisture in the air during the summer, you just increase the likelihood of a high fire weather severity. So, dry, high winds, those two things together, and then ignition events, both human-caused and natural. This just all leads to a fire environment, which is much more severe and unpredictable than before. And so then, unfortunately, it's only typically when you have approaching a crisis that people start to think outside the box and start to look for other areas where they may be able to improve what they're doing. So, if you're if you're doing a really good job at wildland firefighting for a long time, you may not think that you need to change. And certainly, I think that was the case for a long time, it was very well managed. But there's a collective opinion that we need to put more fire back in the landscape, not less. So, more low-intensity fire, more prescribed burns, more cultural burning and it is indeed true. There's a lot of studies supporting this. And so part of the paradigm shift for us that we're trying to both educate ourselves on but also educate is that we want to provide a very reliable separation means for fire containment, both for wildfires, manage fires, which are wildfires that are then allowed to go where they can, and prescribed fires and do that in a way that doesn't have much personnel overhead is low risk, has high reliability, and doesn't have a huge impact on the ecosystem. Because bulldozers certainly do you're clearing large swaths of land to remove fuel. And so we had to educate ourselves a lot about wildfire. But now it's like, hey, we have this new tool that can do a bunch of new things. And I think the trick for us was really just finding people who believed in us and what we were doing, and then working with them on the fire, to actually learn and develop and really get to a really strong solution. Tim 09:34What's really interesting about what you've just said there is this isn't just about reacting to the way things have always been. Your role in this or what you're becoming part of is a brand new approach to how we think about fire generally. So, what's really interesting is that the technology is not just about prevention, it's actually about helping us better manage the entire resource and what we're doing and that confluence between, you know, increased fuel load, drier conditions, and then our proximity to all of these things requires that we try a different approach, overall, not just in this one aspect of things. And so that different approach is going to require more nuance, more options, more flexibility, these kinds of things. And that's really what it sounds like you are beginning to provide. When I go back to that previous thought, when you think about entering this new era of relationship with fire, what then do you find is the most challenging aspect? Peter 10:45I really liked that you said relationship with fire because that's what it needs to be. It can't be fight the fire, it needs to be a relationship with a fire. So, good on you, and that's a great message for everyone thinking about fire generally, is it's going to be a relationship. And, you know, perhaps that's the word too, for us. It's the relationships that we are building and working on, that will allow us to be part of the solution. Because I firmly believe that there's no sort of Immaculate Conception of technology. You have an idea you might be on your way there. It's when you find someone who has expertise in that domain, and then they get interested, then you work together to go deploy it, you know, our objective is to deploy as many miles as possible, in as many different terrain conditions as possible, with as many different vegetations as possible, as many him fire behaviours as possible. Because only through all of that, well, we learned enough to be really good. And we are only allowed to do that once we build relationships with the people who do that for their livelihood. And the one other comment I had to this is that one of the challenges with fire, especially if you're doing a piece of equipment or method that has safety implications, as in this thing needs to be reliable to protect people's lives, which it does, your barrier to entry to try to go out and learn is a lot higher. And I think we've gotten over the hump with some key people and some key areas. But we would love to do that in more areas. Tim 12:15Right, so, have the chance to get out and prove the technology because people are going to be putting their trust in this thing, in a sense. If you look at a fire hydrant on the corner of your block, you know what that's there for. If you look at a smoke detector, you know what that's there for people have a relationship with these things. Albeit crisis-based, right? So, it seems to me that there's a couple of different facets then that you're having to enter on. One is augmenting people's, as we say, relationship with fire or their conceptualization of that, but it's not just reactionary, this needs to change. So, then they see the reason why this new technology has a place. And then the second thing is to get out there and actually see it, or see the difference it's making and see that that technology is learning and evolving as it will because it's brand new so that then they can see the obvious application for it in their own minds, and say, Okay, now this makes sense. I understand why we would use something like this, I understand why we may use it as part of a controlled burn program or something along those lines. And I know what it does for me, I know why it's there. I know what I'm getting from it. I get enamored by the technology itself, and just how many rules it breaks. In a sense, you know what I mean? Like, well, literally, you know, you think about what a firefighting response or a fire control response looks like right now we think about big trucks, we think about planes dropping water, or people rappelling out of helicopters, and using shovels and doing all these kinds of things. And this is a completely different animal in a way, it's a totally different idea around an approach. And when we have those brand new ideas, getting people to open the door is challenging. So, when you look ahead from that perspective, you had mentioned that you've got some good key relationships in place and those are happening. Managing a company or yourself and your partner Allan going forward. The experience of having to bring that to market, tell us a little bit about your actual experience like how has that changed you? What has it changed in the way that you approach people or problems or say from your your oil and gas days? What's been the net learning? Peter 14:42I think then if I can sum it up in a sentence, then I'll expand on it is sort of ruthlessly pursuing the thing of value. So, that means finding the thing of value and then making the thing of value. And my example of that is we picked up a prototype size for a first version and everyone has to do this, say, well how, you know, how capable is this thing going to be. And I do think we made the right decision. But we made it pretty small, pretty low capacity. But what that allowed us to do was we could design things and manufacture them and by manufacture, I mean, we built them within days, or fractions of days or weeks, not months, or years. And when you're building hardware, that's really critical. So, there were circumstances where we had designed something up, and we were looking at all the components that we need to do that. And one of the things took a week and we said, no, we're going to redesign so it takes a day to get here. And that was cool because that has shortcutted learnings probably by an order of magnitude. And I don't think we would have actually had a prototype that was compelling enough if we hadn't designed it in that way, like designed by lead time. At least right now. I think there's points in the future where then you can shift that to a bit more optimization, but there's no point optimizing too much right now. When you're running a startup, you have a runway. You have a limited time to get from this point in time, we just said, Yeah, I'm going to do this thing, to where you have a line of sight on either funding or revenue. We've talked about it before, about hardware being a little bit of a different animal than software, because for whatever reason, people tend to need to see the hardware working to believe it. And I think there's a lot of faith in software right now that it can do these amazing things, which you can. I mean, AI has been pretty wonderful to work with, for some things for a lot of people. And it looks like magic, really. But it seems like there's disbelief in hardware until you actually have it. So, you have to hedge your bets a little bit, go out there with something you believe in and then try to massage from there. And so that's, that's a little bit harder. And so for me that the biggest learning difference from an oil and gas environmental, though there are similar things there. But it was just, you know, you got to get to something of value as fast as you can. And so we did that, I think by design, which was actually very fulfilling as well, you know, as a sometimes impatient engineer, I love that we could get feedback on what we're building so quickly. Tim 17:10I mean, I think we are at this really interesting intersect right now of people's tolerance for risk, it actually being fairly low, and people's patience, and that also being fairly low. And we talk about collectively as a society that people's attention spans are limited. But what I'm hearing and what I see is that, you know, back in the day before we had AI, and we had a lot of virtual products and things that would exist on your phone, but you could install an app, and you could uninstall it as quickly as you would otherwise. And there's very few things that we are on this huge adoption curve, but many of them are not going to impact us in some major way. And so you know, it looks good on paper is fine, unless, it's the difference between your house burning down and not. And so I remember years ago working with some leaders from General Dynamics who were in a defence contract, and they were developing a walkie-talkie, like, this is old technology, it took them years to bring it over. But I remember talking to them about the design specs for this handheld radio that troops would be using. And one of them said, it all looks good on paper but can the thing drive a tense spike into the ground? I said, that's interesting. Tell me about that. He says, Well, we have to plan for as many contingencies as we can and we have to also understand that if it's in somebody's hand, and it can be used as a device to hammer in a tent spike, we have to make sure that it's not going to fall apart. Is it going to pass a field test because that's what's going to determine whether or not the troops will actually accept this thing and whether or not it will be reliable or not. I did a lot of military history in my early days, and there was a lot of lessons that come out of when privateers are promising big things from implements of war. I remember one was called the McCallum shovel and it was this Canadian design where the designer of this trench shovel had the brilliant idea of it being a doubling as a piece of armour that they could pick up over the edge of the trenches with. And so he put a hole with a door right in the middle of the shovel. The thing wasn't thick enough to stop a bullet. So, it wasn't good as a piece of armor and it was a shovel with a big hole in it. So, it didn't do a great job of digging either. And, you know, it's again, one of those things. It's like looks good on paper. But you don't want to be the guinea pig, trialing it you want to see it work. And so that practical application that going and seeing how this thing responds to the world and how people develop a relationship with it is really important. The other thing that I thought was really profound about what you said was that there's no point optimizing right now. We're taking this piece at a time, you're taking a modular approach, we call this theory of constraints all the time, you know, exploit the thing that is the bottleneck or the thing that's holding you back. And I'm reminded of an expert that I talked to around the formation of habits. And he said, you know, when we're trying to get a person to adopt a new lifestyle/principle of going to the gym, you don't judge the person on whether or not they went to the gym and had an optimized workout, first. You first lay in, can they get up in the morning, even if they drive to the gym, turn around and go home, that's better than if they didn't go at all. Because we have to first work at being less than optimal. You have to develop the habit before you get good at it. So, go in and risk it being you know, the technology is a little bit different, but focus on what matters first, and then work in the optimization. Because if you go for perfect, originally, what do they say, it's always that perfection is the is the enemy of progress, right? We want to focus on getting it done in a virtual space. So, I think those are two really important things, right is that, as you say, get off paper, get out of the virtual world, and then go where the work is done or go see it work. Build that relationship while in development, but then also a relationship with the people observing it. And then focus on what you need to. On that virtual point, though, let me ask you that. When you are out looking for funding, or in the context you and I met, you were up against software, right? Do you see that? That people's relationships with an innovative, durable object versus software is very different? Do you see that the, be it investors or potential customers, have a different kind of relationship with it? Or am I imagining that? Peter 21:58No, you're spot on. Very different relationships from most people I meet actually between the two. And I think, especially so because what we're building is more akin to almost military hardware, then sort of other types of hardware that are built like drone-based things, or Agtech or something like that, because they have this sort of human life aspect of it. So, it adds another layer of complexity and difficulty to the hardware equation. But certainly, you know, I'll admit there's more overhead for making a piece of hardware than there is a piece of software. I do believe there's more upkeep on some software because you have to constantly be, you know, making sure it integrates with all the new implementations of all sorts of different codes, that's made its way to hardware now too, because you're constantly updating software, look at modern EVs, or modern cars, they have updates over the air. So, you're constantly updating and keeping alive that piece of software. But I think though, what hardware offers which software doesn't, which investors do understand, but they want to see you a little bit further along until they sort of recognize this as something to celebrate. But the protective moat is much larger, the barrier to entry to build a wildfire-fighting robot is very high. Because not only do you need to know a bit about fire and a lot about robotics, you have to have the connections and someone that believes in you to actually get out there on the fire and learn the right things. That is no small thing to go do. But if you do it and you do it successfully, then you have built very durable relationships in that space that then lend themselves to a very durable business. So, I think you have to be a bit more patient with hardware. But know that I think that the potential benefit of that thing can bring, and the sustainable business that I can create are quite compelling. Tim 23:51We talked about innovation, and I'm starting to see this business that you're involved in, in the technology, you're trying to bring in a very different lens, just through the course of this conversation. You know, when we think about, when we think about a lot of software, or you know, the adoption of marketplaces or new ways that we're going to interact with our phone or manage our phonebook or whatever, you know, whatever. Like, these things are all faster pencils, in many ways. They're things we already do and it's convenience. You're involved, if we strip everything else away, you're involved in creating something that in 100 years could be as ubiquitous in a forest as a firefighting plane or a pump truck or shovel. Like we're talking about something that would be part of the landscape in the way that the automobile became part of the landscape. Right? Sure there's been lots of innovations, but there was the first automobile that people were like horseless carriage, what the hell, right? Like this is something that A. again, I'm a practical guy. I think practically this thing makes all sorts of sense. And so it's like, why didn't this exist before? So, that's like one of the things on my, you know, get good at making it. But why wouldn't you do this? Right? If you can have a Roomba, you can certainly have a self-directed hose that's gonna put itself somewhere. I mean, hey, you know, you could even have small-scale stuff that waters lawns, I don't know. But why wouldn't you do this? Because it just seems so logical when you're talking about firebreaks. They're big, and they're long. And well, great. Let's do this. And so that creating something, though, that's that profound. And as you say, you're taking a huge chunk, you got to know a lot about fires, and you got to know a lot about robotics, and you've got to have the relationships in place to do it. And you're disrupting, in a great way, how people think about this other option that makes a ton of sense. But man, what a lift, like it's not. It's not like it's not like say, hey, you know, you want a better way to whip eggs. It's not, it is a huge lift. And I think it's a great lift. You know, talk about gumption man. So, I mean, I hope for the people listening that they can get a sense of, and I can't wait till all of you listening, get a chance to see this thing, videos and whatnot, because it is cool. Let's talk a little bit then as we sort of head towards our wrap-up here. If you were to think of the well, so I mean, one of the takeaways is that relationships here are key, right? Getting into the right spaces, and then not just opening up business but opening minds is such a huge piece here. So, first of all, what would something that wildfire robotics is, is on the cusp of right now that you'd like people to be aware of? Or how would you like them to spread the word? What's something that you would like people to shout from the rooftops? Peter 27:01Well, we're about to do a bunch of work with Alberta wildfire. And this means taking our team and our alpha prototype, and eventually our next version out to real fires, and interacting with them and the people there in a real way. And that, to me, is the most exciting part of running the business. This is where I wanted to be like, you know, three years ago, but I'm finally here. And this is where I think the relationships get solidified. You know, we've built the beginning up, but this is where we show them that, hey, we can come, we'll bring our thing, and then we'll improve it next time we're out here. And we're going to do that until it's something of such extreme value that you'll never kick us off again like that's where we want to get to. And we're at the beginning stages of this. And we're also in an environment now where it's really fun. Like, there's nothing more fun to me, than going out to a wild area with a bunch of hardworking people who have been containing and interacting with a wildfire, which is such an extreme event and such an admirable profession, to be around those people and then to be able to bring them something new, and work collectively to build it. What's more fun than that? So, I'm really excited about that portion of it. And you know, we are still looking for people to help out on this. So you know, if this is something of interest, like, come talk to me, there's lots of fun things to do in wildfire.  Tim 28:18I think what I want us to follow up on but when you say that, I would say you've got a story developing here, you've got a hero's quest developing here. This is an adventure that you're on, you're going to have several destinations, all of these different things that are happening. And if people want to follow along with your story, where's the best place to do that right now? And would that be something that you'd be interested in people getting more in touch with? Peter 28:47Yeah, and so I don't think I've done a good enough job at that yet. But with these trials, I will be sharing information, right now I do that on LinkedIn, through myself. I don't do that through our company, webpage there. But maybe I'll look to other means to share this because it is something that I think a lot of people care about. Tim 29:07I think so many people are going to care about this. And so, Peter, I think as we move forward when that story starts to flesh out, and I want to have you back, I want us to talk about that. About getting people into your story, get them following along and all of those things because it is that relationship that we need to think about. We'll put your deets down in the in the show notes. So they can reach out to you on LinkedIn. If they're just listening today. What's your handle on LinkedIn? Peter 29:36It's something complicated but look up  Peter Root Wildfire Robotics. Tim 29:39They'll find it alright. We'll have all these in the show notes. If I was to ask you what's one wish that you have for the people listening today? What would it be? Peter 29:48Take your own journey. It's a lot of fun, very humbling. You learn a lot. It's sobering in all the right ways. So yeah, take your own adventure. Tim 29:58Awesome. Take your own adventure and do it in real life. Peter 30:01Yeah. Do it in real life. Tim 30:02Yeah, no kidding. Right on. Alright, little tradition here that we do at the end of every show. One is I'm going to ask you a question that comes from our previous guests. In this case, it was Jeff, he was asking, and this is directed at you, and then we can talk a little bit about how a person arrives there. But what do you want your leadership legacy to be? When you think, far off into the future? People are thinking about you and what you accomplished, and how you did it. What do you want people to be saying? Peter 30:31Sustainable leadership, just in the sense that you got to be making a whole bunch of decisions on things that you may not have any experience with. And that's very taxing. And then you also you're innovating, you're coming up with new things. And there's an expectation, I think that generally, you do that at the cadence of sort of pure output work, like just something that you need to be at 100% all the time. And that's really not realistic. If you really think about your best innovations or your best work in life, it's ebb and flow, there's periods of high productivity, followed by recovery. And I think I want to make the people who have worked with me, and will work with me in the future to know that that's what I believe in, so that they can lead a more fulfilling life, because I think if we just grind all the time, we grind ourselves down. And so I think there's more productivity to be seen, if you accept this natural flow of high productivity and rest periods, while still working. But just just know that, like, you know, there's gonna be super intense periods, and we all got to be on but if we were on for the past year, Full Tilt, we won't be ready for that period. And I want to make sure that my teams know that and that other people take on the same thing. Tim 31:46I love that I can't wait to introduce you to the work of Richard Young, he's been on the show a couple of times, he works with Olympic athletes, and works with sustainable high performance, something that I've brought into my practice. But you know, one of the metaphors for that is training, like you would for a marathon. You're going to perform, you're gonna have these periods of performance where you're delivering. But then as you say, there's this recuperation. And then there's this conditioning and training and practice and learning new things and honing your craft. And then there's a period of performance where you deliver, and then getting comfortable with that cyclic nature of things. Right. Awesome. Love that. Peter, what would be a question you would have for the next guest? Keep in mind that this can be any type of person that we bring on who we feel has unique and sometimes eclectic leadership. Peter 32:39Well, you know, I think because the topic of our chat here has been really, a lot of it's been about relationships, I would ask them, how do they build trust in their business, both with the people who work for them, and their customers and their investors? Tim 32:55Awesome. I think that that is something that a lot of people would be very interested in answering. I will make sure that I pose that question to the next guest. And I'll put together some resources that I have that I think might be helpful for the people that are on that same quest. Peter Root, Wildfire Robotics, man, this one was a scorcher. It was fun. You are, you know, a lot of flame, not a lot of smoke. A lot of good stuff here. I really appreciate it and I hope you had fun. Peter 33:28I did. Likewise. Thank you very much. Tim 33:29All right, can't wait to have you back.  Tim 33:31Thank you so much for listening to Sweet on Leadership. If you found today's podcast valuable consider visiting our website and signing up for the companion newsletter, you can find the link in the show notes. If like us, you think it's important to bring new ideas and skills into the practice of leadership. Please give us a positive rating and review on Apple Podcasts. This helps us spread the word to other committed leaders. And you can spread the word too, by sharing this with your friends, teams and colleagues. Thanks again for listening and be sure to tune in in two weeks time for another episode of Sweet on Leadership. In the meantime, I'm your host, Tim Sweet, encouraging you to keep on leading.

Meet Kenzie, a 23-year-old Indigenous woman from Northern Alberta a new graduate with her Bachelor of Social Work degree. Kenzie is passionate about her culture, spirituality and manifestation practices and embodies a commitment to both personal growth and well-being. Nicole was actually Kenzie's grade 7 teacher a decade ago, tune in to hear how Kenzie has experienced growth, love + loss, a spiritual journey and has become a master attractor. Connect with Kenzie here: https://www.instagram.com/kenziedachuk/ Find out the FASTEST way to grow your business (without sacrificing more time or adding more 1:1 clients!) Take The Quiz Here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.myalignedpurpose.com/quiz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Find out the FASTEST way to grow your business (without sacrificing more time or adding more 1:1 clients!) Take The Quiz Here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.myalignedpurpose.com/quiz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

I'm honored to welcome in a new partnership to the podcast. Are you familiar with OLIPOP soda? Please go to www.drinkolipop.com, use promo code JAYREELZ for 15% off of your purchase. Wrapping up another week as I have one last podcast in the Sunshine State, recapping, reviewing and previewing all that's happening in the sports world. On deck: (2:48) As I conclude my tour of Florida, my remote takes me inside (due to construction and a Metrorail train passing by every few minutes) on another hot, sunny summer day in Miami. The acoustics weren't great in the room that I was recording, so my apologies to those listening if there were any echoes or issues in regards to the latest edition of the podcast. (4:19) A promo for OLIPOP soda. Please see the offer above. (5:56) Sports is starting to pick up a little bit as August is on the horizon, but baseball is still front and center here in late July. I cannot believe what the New York Mets did to their crosstown rival, New York Yankees over the past couple of days. They won a close one on Tuesday and last night took the Bombers to the back of the woodshed as they completed a season series sweep in dominating fashion. Now, both teams have to gear up for even bigger series this weekend with division rivals as the Mets play four at home vs. Atlanta. While the Yankees go up to Boston to play the Red Sox for three. How will they fare as both NY teams are either being chased or chasing in the Wild Card standings? I'll go through the struggles of the Orioles in Miami. The reeling Mariners. The oncoming Rangers in the AL West. There are some intriguing series to keep an eye on (Dodgers-Astros, Guardians-Phillies, Pirates-D'backs) as we're approaching the final weekend of the month. (25:29) NFL Training Camps are open for business. You have quite a few key players holding out (i.e. Trent Williams, Hasan Reddick and Jordan Love) the latter, the most interesting because how much will he get with only one full season under his belt? There were two more retirement announcements (Raiders WR Michael Gallup. Eagles LB Brandon Graham at the end of the year) And the greed of the NFL crops up as there have been high level talks of increasing the season to 18 games in the future. You know how I feel about this. I'll get into all of it as football is back in our consciousness. (35:01) The NBA has officially announced their new media deal with ESPN/ABC, NBC & Amazon Prime for the next eleven years worth $76 billion dollars. TNT feels snubbed based on what they said that they've countered Amazon's offer and should still broadcast games after next season. Is this the end for TNT? Can they still negotiate considering this already a done deal. Also, the WNBA signed a new deal as well (11/$2.2 billion, could go up to 3 billion) Is it time for yours truly to start taking notice on a league that has received plenty of attention over the past couple of years? Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau signs a three year extension. And Andrew Nembhard of the Pacers cashed in on a good playoff run with a three year/$59 million dollar deal. (42:26) A high profile signing in Edmonton for the front office as former Blackhawks GM Stan Bowman will take his talents to Northern Alberta, but this comes after a two year suspension from the NHL for his involvement in the alleged sexual harassment case back in 2010. Was this a good move by the Western Conference Champions? (45:36) With the Olympics beginning tomorrow night, I'll preview as much as I could when it comes to what'll take place in Paris over the next two and a half weeks. One big question going into the Games, how much pressure with the USA Men's Basketball Team face as they're the favorites to come home with the Gold Medal? Please subscribe, leave a rating and post a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Audacy, Amazon Music and iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. For daily shorts, weekly vlogs and then some, please subscribe to my YouTube channel at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMucZq-BQrUrpuQzQ-jYF7w If you'd like to contribute to the production of the podcast, please visit my Patreon page at: www.patreon.com/TheJAYREELZPodcast   Many thanks for all of your love and support.   Intro/outro music by Cyklonus. LINKS TO SUBSCRIBE, RATE & REVIEW: APPLE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-jayreelz-podcast/id1354797894 SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/7jtCQwuPOg334jmZ0xiA2D?si=22c9a582ef7a4566 AUDACY: https://www.audacy.com/podcast/the-jayreelz-podcast-d9f50 iHEARTRADIO: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-the-jayreelz-podcast-43104270/ AMAZON MUSIC: https://www.amazon.com/The-JAYREELZ-Podcast/dp/B08K58SW24/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+jayreelz+podcast&qid=1606319520&sr=8-1

ABOUT THIS EPISODE: In this episode, host Megan Cole talks to Darrel McLeod. Darrel is the author of A Season in Chezgh'un, which is a finalist for the 2024 Ethel Wilson Fiction Prize. In their conversation Darrel talks about how writing fiction changed his writing practice, and how he began developing his novel's character, James. Visit BC and Yukon Book Prizes: https://bcyukonbookprizes.com/ About A Season in Chezgh'un: https://bcyukonbookprizes.com/project/sonnets-from-a-cell/ ABOUT DARREL MCLEOD: Darrel J. McLeod is Cree from Treaty-8 territory in Northern Alberta. Before deciding to pursue writing, he worked as an educator, chief negotiator of land claims for the federal government and executive director of education and international affairs with the Assembly of First Nations. He holds degrees in French literature and education from the University of British Columbia. He is the author of two memoirs: the award-winning Mamaskatch (2018; winner of the Governor General's Literary Award for Nonfiction; shortlisted for many other major prizes; translated into French and German editions), followed by Peyakow (2021) which was also shortlisted for several literary prizes. He currently lives in Sooke, BC, and divides his time between writing and singing in a jazz band. ABOUT MEGAN COLE: Megan Cole the Director of Programming and Communications for the BC and Yukon Book Prizes. She is also a writer based on the territory of the Tla'amin Nation. Megan writes creative nonfiction and has had essays published in Chatelaine, This Magazine, The Puritan, Untethered, and more. She has her MFA in creative nonfiction from the University of King's College and is working her first book. Find out more about Megan at megancolewriter.com ABOUT THE PODCAST: Writing the Coast is recorded and produced on the territory of the Tla'amin Nation. As a settler on these lands, Megan Cole finds opportunities to learn and listen to the stories from those whose land was stolen. Writing the Coast is a recorded series of conversations, readings, and insights into the work of the writers, illustrators, and creators whose books are nominated for the annual BC and Yukon Book Prizes. We'll also check in on people in the writing community who are supporting books, writers and readers every day. The podcast is produced and hosted by Megan Cole.

In this episode of Small Business School, I share some key lessons that I am pulling away from the recent forest fire in my Northern Alberta, Canada community. There have been a lot of people complaining about how things have been handled at the government level and I think that as business owners we also need to take them to heart! Let's get into it!Topics Covered:Under Promise, Over Deliver. Why it's crucial to manage expectations honestly and deliver more than you promise to build trust and reliability.The importance of proactive and transparent communication with your clients to avoid misunderstandings and build strong relationships.How showing genuine care for your community and avoiding opportunistic behaviour can foster loyalty and long-term success.How to rebuild trust if it's been damaged, and why maintaining it is essential for sustainable business growth.Implement these lessons in your business operations to enhance customer satisfaction and business resilience.I hope you find these insights valuable and can start applying them to your business today!Staci's Links:Instagram. Website.The School for Small Business Podcast is a proud member of the Female Alliance Media. To learn more about Female Alliance Media and how they are elevating female voices or how they can support your show, visit femalealliancemedia.ca.Head over to my website https://www.stacimillard.com/ to grab your FREE copy of my Profit Playbook and receive 30 innovative ways you can add more profit to your business AND the first step towards implementing these ideas in your business!

This week on the pod, the gang settles in to the project and describes their experience with Gord's 3rd solo release, The Grand Bounce.Transcript:Track 1:[0:01] Hey, it's Justin. You know and love us on the Discovering Downey podcast, right? So come hang out with us in person for the finale. Join us for Long Slice Brewing Presents, a celebration of Gord Downey at The Rec Room in downtown Toronto on Friday, July 19th. Craig is coming from Vancouver. Kirk is coming from LA. I'm driving from Vermont. And JD is like walking down the street or wherever he lives in Toronto. Tickets are available now on our website at discovererndowney.com. And when you get your tickets, that means you can come hang out with us and our very special guest, Patrick Downey. And you can bid on some incredibly cool silent auction items, all while jamming along with tragically hip cover band The Almost Hip. And most importantly, helping us raise money for the Gord Downey Fund for Brain Cancer Research. Crack open a long slice, put on some Gord tunes, take a journey with us on Discovering Downey, and then crack open another long slice on July 19th and hang out with us in the 6th. I always wanted to sound cool and say that. For more information, follow us on all the socials and visit DiscoveringDowny.com. Cheers.Track 2:[1:23] Thanksgiving. Victims and their victim-ears sit down to Turkey hungry for punishment full of mercury fullimate, serene after the screaming. Grace makes the mouth make shapes it's never made before. We give thanks for the poetry we read and write all day. For freeing us to drink with impunity a toast to no punishment replaces Amen. The prayer is swallowed away for the silence and the quiet carving serene after the was screaming, a little violent, but turkey nevertheless.Track 1:[2:08] Welcome, music lovers. Long Slice Brewery presents Discovering Downey.Track 2:[2:16] Hey, it's J.D. here and welcome back to Discovering Downey. This is an 11-part opus with a focus on Mr. Gord Downey, the late frontman of the Tragically Hip, but somebody who also gave to the world an extensive solo discography. Eight records in total. But have you heard them? That was what I sought out when I enlisted my friends Craig, Justin, and Kirk to discover Downey. These three are giant Tragically Hip fans, but they had little to no exposure with Gord's solo oeuvre. So every week, we get together and listen to one of the records in chronological order and see what we think. Did we miss out? Or did we make the right choice? We're going to find out on Discovering Downey. This week, we're going to dive into Gord's third solo release. This, with The Country of Miracles, it is the grand bounce. Now let's go to the team.Track 1:[3:27] Justin St. Louis, how are you doing this week? Week i'm worn out man and uh i'm ready for this thing to to take over my life tonight and just be back in the normal and enjoy the music and enjoy talking about it with you guys love it yeah kirk where are you headed off to next yeah actually heading off to the big apple nyc i'm uh going to be chaperoning my uh my youngest and they're going to be performing at carnegie so very proud pops Pops. And, uh, we just got back from a really cool trip in Memphis and Nashville and they did really, you know, they did fantastic there. So I've been surrounded by music and, um, that's inspired me, but I'm gonna, you know, concur with Justin and say, I'm definitely looking forward to a discussion about this album. I mean, uh, it's been a pretty cool journey so far, but this, I think this is gonna, this album is going to spark a pretty good conversation in my opinion. So, but doing well and looking forward to traveling again. It'll be interesting for sure. Craig, how are things on the left coast, motherfucker?Track 1:[4:36] Not too bad. Just got back from a family trip to Disneyland that was six years in the making. We tried it, you know, in 2020 and it didn't work out. And so we finally made it down with the kids and spent a few days in LA at the end of the trip and was lucky enough to have Kirk from Chino drive all the way out to LAX and we hooked up for.Track 1:[4:59] Little conversation and yeah, it was cool. It was a good time. Yeah. So first time meeting in person, which was a great night. It was really cool. Yep. No, it worked out actually great. I just got back from that trip with a choir that I'd mentioned and then, uh, hadn't seen my mom in a bit and she was actually staying, um, uh, doing some pet sitting at a house in garden Grove that had some good memories. So it kind of was a half, half the distance to LAX. So it worked out perfect to go and meet you and and i appreciated uh appreciated you giving up some time from your family for a little bit to have a good conversation so and i know it'll carry over tonight well this week on discovering downey we're here to discuss and dissect the june 2010 released from gord and his band the country of miracles consisting of the usual suspects canadian musicians oh.Track 2:[5:48] Man i'm gonna butcher this julie duaron right is that right yeah so she's on vocals guitar and bass then there is gourd's frequent collaborator josh finlayson.Track 1:[6:02] Dale morningstar on lead guitar dave clark on drums and dr p on keyboards chris walla a former member of death cab for cutie turned the knobs on this release but where do you start with the grand bounce it's been seven years and three albums since Gord's last outing, and The Country of Miracles sounds as though they've been chomping at the bit to jam with Gord yet again. This album, to me, is a band album as much as it is a Gord solo affair. As a result, it sounds more cohesive than the previous two releases. While it rarely reaches the heights of Battle of the Nudes, it is a remarkably consistent effort. It's worth noting that the songs on The Grand Bounce seem more structured and maybe even more thought out as three to four minute rock songs that are reminiscent of Gord's day job, The Tragically Hip. There's an energy on this record that's palpable. Perhaps it's the shorthand of working with the same band for three consecutive records?Track 2:[6:58] I'm not sure, but it's there. Now, once we get into the songs on this 50 minute, 13 song opus.Track 1:[7:06] It's tough not to get caught up in the sonic presence that Walla brings to the table. There's a depth to the maturity, And I'll use the term again, a cohesiveness that wasn't as pronounced on the prior two efforts. While the grand bounce is a perfectly fine listen, it's only after letting it grow on you. For me, it sat growing on me since I did the fully and completely podcast. And that to me is when it shows its real prowess, creating earworms and hooks that reel you in and invite you over for dinner just to hang out with the music.Track 1:[7:40] But what do our friends Craig, Justin, and Kirk have to say about the Grand Bounce? Let's not waste any more time and get right to them. Kirk from Chino, talk to me about your first experience with the Grand Bounce. Yeah, well, after we had finished up talking about Battle of the Nudes, I had had some travel for work, and then I was getting some other stuff ready for a very busy week. So I didn't get to jump on to a listen right away. I mean, it was a number of days. But I was doing a walk at night and, you know, cool walk with the dog and had it in my AirPods. And just right away, I was really taken by it. I really felt the maturity of it, you know, very reminiscent of what you had mentioned, JD, in your lead up to, you know, the discussion about the album is it just had a maturity to it. The band, it felt like a band album, exactly what you said. and I, as much as I loved the first two albums, I just felt a comfort. Like the whole time I've listened to this album, which is, I don't know, maybe 15, 20 times at this point, it just, it's a warm blanket to me. It's like, it now is okay.Track 1:[8:57] It's okay, I can like Gord Downie as a solo artist. You know, I just had a great experience with it. I really, really loved it. I could spend a lot of time talking, but I want to hear what the other guys have to say about it. Well, Craig, what do you think? Yeah, this was really a grower for me. I wasn't sure when I first put this on. I didn't think I would like it as much as I do. And overall, I really love this album. I have maybe a couple of critiques, which we'll get to later. Later but my my journey with this album actually goes back to 2015 when you may remember jd that we had a bunch of target stores open in canada in whenever 2010 maybe and they only lasted about four or five years and they went went under and when they were closing down they had cds on sale for five dollars you can get any it could get any cd and i happened upon the grand balance and And actually the next album we'll be doing next week and pick those both up for five bucks. And they sat on open for many years and I just opened them for this podcast. So I I'm lucky enough to have an actual podcast.Track 1:[10:05] Physical copy and the liner notes that came in them so i may be able to offer a few little nuggets um one i would just want to mention off the top chris walla is actually mentioned as a member when it says the country of miracles are and it lists all the members plus him so i believe he was playing guitar on wow much of the album wow very cool some of those videos he was playing so that i'm not surprised by that and i love that thank you for sharing because this is actually the only album that I couldn't get. I tried to get vinyl of everything, but I don't have a CD. So everything has been streaming or online.Track 1:[10:41] And I watched several videos with interviews and he talked specifically about the inlet, the vocal or the lyrics. And you just showed a picture of it, Craig, and it's not the standard sizing that you normally get. So I appreciate you sharing that. That was pretty cool. And I think also what I learned with this album is again, just to trust Trust, you know, Gord, you know, you may not like it right away, but give this album a good listen if you haven't before. It took longer to grow on me than the other two, but highly recommended. Yeah i think a good strategy with this record is to listen the fuck out of it for like two or three days and then put it on the shelf for a week and then pick it up and there's something like kirk was saying that's comforting about it you come back to it and you're like whoa this is really fucking way more hooky than i imagined when i first listened to it but let's uh talk to our friend mr st louis what do you say on the matter of discovering downey v the grand bounce So I also had the word warmth written down, and I did take your strategy, JD, of I listened to it probably 10 times. I started immediately after recording our last episode, which is how I had done the previous. I was like, okay, this is not Battle of the Nudes.Track 1:[12:04] And I immediately heard what I thought was Bob rock sound. But then I realized this isn't Bob rock sound and neither were those other two albums. This is the era that Gord was in with the hip and all of the Bob rock haters probably owe him an apology because this is the type of stuff that Gord was writing at that time. And so it did feel familiar and it did feel comforting and it did feel warm and I liked it. I also, you know, during this time, um, when the album came out i was listening to kings of leon and mumford and sons and stuff like that and there's a lot of that in this in this sound and i you know i was a uh death cab for cutie fan at the time and you know postal service and all that stuff i mean so it was very contemporary for for when it came out and it felt like it belonged in that 2010 range but.Track 1:[12:58] For me, it was a big letdown after Battle of the Nudes, because that album was so damn good. And because we didn't have seven years between recording these episodes for our musical tastes to change, it was like, whoa, this is a massive shift from what we had just digested into this new album. I don't hate it, but I don't think I love it.Track 1:[13:20] Wow. Yeah. I don't see it as such a massive shift. It's going to be interesting as we get into the track by track. Should we do that now, gentlemen? Let's go for it. Let's do it. Okay, the first track on the record is a great one for me in the sense that winter has ended. But when I think about winter, I think about that. I think about Gord standing on the edge of Riverdale Park and having somebody discuss this east wind with him, this strong east wind that blows in and is very cold. And we're going to hear from Craig first on this one. So, Craig, what do you think of the east wind? This is the one song off the album I was familiar with. I had seen maybe a video, I'd heard it quite a few times, and I love it. I think it's a great opener. I want to point something out really quickly that you guys wouldn't necessarily know without the liner notes, but there are Roman numerals, one through four, throughout the album. And at first I thought maybe it was to do with the record I thought maybe the four-sided record which it is, I looked it up but the.Track 1:[14:29] There's three songs per side on the records, and it doesn't quite jive with the numbers in the booklet. So what I think is, I've come up with a little story around, this isn't a concept album by any means, but it's definitely got a story to it. And so I've actually listed what I think the story is about, and I think section one is about a move. And so you've probably done the research too and and gourd at the time was moving up to glenora on the um on the great one of the great lakes so this this first section i think all the songs kind of relate to moving uh the east wind maybe not as much but also interestingly enough the east wind is the only song that doesn't have lyrics printed out in the booklet and i'm not really sure why that would be what yeah so there's a quote at the top it does say the the quote about the east wind is the laziest wind, but right under that is track two. And if you saw some of the video research or YouTube, he talked about it was a neighbor who was a farmer who was describing the east wind, the laziest wind.Track 1:[15:40] So I found that very interesting, Craig, when you proposed the theory of the story. Because I could think to several of the different interviews and different discussions about different songs and how he's definitely pinpointing some real life things that are happening. Like you mentioned the move and, and, uh, obviously some discussions about relationships and, and then he's got his kids involved in some of these songs too. So you may be onto something, my friend. Another theory theory I have is that maybe this song is meant to be like a little bit of an introduction sort of before the story starts. And maybe that's why it didn't have the lyrics in here or maybe it's a misprint who knows, but the song itself musically is, is great. Uh, very much a band jamming again, like we're used to from the previous two albums, but just more layering, more production.Track 1:[16:30] I really love how the guitars are layered. From my count, there's five guitar players on this track, including one who I couldn't find any mention of anywhere on the internet. Someone named Edgar Lewis played guitar, and I believe he plays the guitar at the end, the little guitar melody, the sort of New Order style melody at the end. I couldn't find anything about who he might be. The name Edgar, of course, made me think of Gord's middle name. So not sure if there's a connection there. But yeah, I could not track this person down online. Anybody out there knows who Edgar, what his name is? I apologize. What's his name again? Edgar Lewis or Louie.Track 1:[17:10] Edgar Louie. If you know who Edgar Louie is, shoot us an email at discoveringdowneyatgmail.com. I wonder if he's an acquaintance of Chris Swala. Possibly. Although they did record in Kingston, so it would have been quite the trip for one little guitar melody. But yeah, maybe he was someone working in the studio. Maybe he's a friend of the band or who knows. But yeah, the Chris Walla production is very noticeable on this song. The way things are, you know, I think Gord even mentions in an interview, he just keeps layering things every few bars and very evident. The drums are a good example of this in the song. They come in kind of lightly, but they're still pretty intense. And then the toms come in, and you've got that really almost tribal beat for the first few bars once the whole band kicks in. And then you get just sort of a regular beat. But it's always driving forward. There's always momentum with the drums. It's always picking up momentum right through the end of the song and really strong playing all together. Such a solid song. I think the second part of that build, when I first heard it, was like, oh, this is sort of like maybe some of the tone that was on Battle of the Newts, where it was kind of subdued and subdued.Track 1:[18:31] Just there. And then there's this massive sound, which really works. I do love the song a lot. And I believe you that there's five guitars in it. Um, cause if you have earbuds in and turn it up, you, you feel it. Yeah. And while the chords are quite simple, when you really listen, there's actually a lot going on, even with Gord's guitar. And I feel like on this album, he has matured as a player. You can tell, you know, he's got another seven years of experience and we never did really talk about on the previous episodes his guitar playing but when he first started playing guitar in the hip it was a bizarre thing to watch his strumming patterns it was so awkward to watch him as a guitar player and i'm not even sure he was really too much in the mix back in the early days but he has grown so much as a guitar player he's playing a lot in open tunings i believe i've read that open c was his favorite so i think a lot of the songs on this album or an open C. I noticed in the videos he was playing a Tele for much of this session rather than acoustic.Track 1:[19:33] And yeah, there is a lot of subtleties to the guitar playing, even though it's basically two chords through the whole song. I was going to mention, Craig, and we've all obviously did our research and saw the YouTube, but the bathhouse sessions when they were recording. And, and I'm honestly, it's like, it's a question to this group. They, they were all isolated, but they were all playing live. And you had mentioned how much he was playing guitar. And in the, that little six part series, I loved how Gord was so committed to playing guitar, as you had mentioned. Like there was typically when you're recording an album like you want to do the the vocal and the guitar separately and he was nope i'm going to do it together because the guitar strumming was creating some of the cadence of the vocals and and i loved how or i felt like that was demonstrated there so i think that's a great point that you brought up craig that he was really focused on that playing yeah that makes this album easier to sing to we had mentioned whether i don't remember if it was on air or off air, but we had all had trouble singing along with the first two albums. And this one is much more poppy and rhythm driven. And I think you're absolutely right, Kirk, that him playing the guitar as he sings and it's in every take really kind of made that happen. I also did notice if you, it's really low in the mix, but when this track first starts, somebody says, no more takes.Track 1:[21:01] Like, we have to do it this time, you know? I really, I picked up on that and I enjoyed it, especially after watching that six part series. I'm gonna jump on your story theme, Craig, and Moon Over Glenora.Track 1:[21:14] The next song on the album.Track 1:[24:18] I absolutely love this song right and he talks about the ferry ride and that really goes along when you think of the east wind and being off the lake and then now talking about the ferry, uh justin what'd you think about this song oh man this song solidified my crush on julie this is, such a great track and the duet through every word and then the live performances of this song that i I was able to find on the, on the hips now for plan a record, there's one lyric that's, we don't want to do it. We want to be it talking about the music and they are absolutely the music while they're playing the song. And it's just a lot of fun. And it's like a, it's like going to a club show, which it probably was. I really did love the song. And for me, the ferry ride across Lake Champlain is just a part of life here when you're going over to New York and it just, just talking about the spotlight, finding the ice in the water. I've been on that ferry and the song is really, I think, about two people falling in love, not knowing that they're falling in love. And they're kind of bickering and arguing about it. And they get outside in the ferry and it's cold and it's terrible and you got to stay warm, so let's complain about something.Track 1:[25:29] And they talk about the wolf and they've killed the wolf by the end of the ferry ride. You know um it's the the imagery is really cool and the dead lake right isn't that the last the ocean is dead the ocean is dead yeah yeah it's a great little song i really do love it but i think the star is julie and this really she's fantastic yeah i uh story-wise i actually had almost the opposite thought to me it was maybe um a couple falling out of love and maybe this is the the cracks are starting to show. Like maybe it's not totally fractured yet. And again, I'm not saying that this is about Gord or, you know, I don't know too much about his personal life, but I do know parts of this are inspired obviously by true events, you know, the move to Glenora. Did anyone watch the interview with Gord with Kim Mitchell? If you guys even know who that is? Yeah, I did. Do you know who he is?Track 1:[26:26] Well i had to look it up i didn't know who he was immediately and i got confused because it was that little two-part interview and he had mentioned something about being and i think like saint paul minnesota and it threw me off because it said toronto but then in the second part they they confirmed they were talking in toronto um the one thing sorry and i hopefully i don't derail your thought but the one thing that i loved on that particular interview is the reverence that gordon had for that particular guy so i definitely had to look him up you know to see the songs that he was involved with and and he was uh you know as he mentioned in that he's a hero so sorry go ahead i just wanted to bring him up because he's a you know a classic canadian artist i'm wearing my my cancon shirt here and uh he was definitely a a big part of you know the music scene here in in the 80s and 90s i guess i brought it up because um this was a song that he mentioned really loving that you know kim really loved it also i found it really interesting I'd never heard this before, but Gord references a song that the two of them wrote together.Track 1:[27:29] And by the sounds of it, it's a song that was never released. So it sounds like Kim Mitchell had a song he wrote and then Gord wrote the words too. And so there may be an unreleased song out there, or maybe if a listener's heard this or has any idea how to track this down, I'd love to hear it. So that was my only thing I wanted to add. Oh, and also Dale does some really really cool guitar, little shots on, on this sort of beat two and four. And then he does these little muted scrub scrubs. I'm not even sure how to.Track 1:[27:58] How to put in words what that sound is i'm you know what i mean kind of like a pick almost like a pick slide into the the bends i mean i don't know it it's almost it's a it's a technique it's not it's a rhythmic pattern that he's doing yeah and with with some notes in there but they're sort of muted but anyways i thought that added some nice accent but i agree with with you justin that julie really steals the show on this one it's such a good song on many of the songs on this album that combination of voice, to me, that was what I had mentioned earlier about how much I enjoyed this album, is when you feel that the band is now a band and you feel that connection. But we are so used to hearing Gord as part of the hip and that amazing combination of vocals that he has, you know, with Paul and then obviously with the guitar phrasing and how the hip is the hip and you can hear that. And I think with the vocals that he has with her on many of these albums, but especially on this particular album and several of these songs, to me, that really solidified like, okay, this is a great combination of musicians that are doing fantastic things. So I so appreciated this song.Track 1:[29:19] Another, Gord has that ability to do like an upbeat rhythm and kind of like Pascal's Submarine that we talked about in the last album, where it's kind of a dark subject, but it's a very upbeat song. So I really felt that with this particular song. I couldn't help but think, as he said, the ocean is, as they were repeating, the ocean is dead at the end. I was just thinking about all the water songs that Gord has and how water must be his Roman empire. There are a couple things that come up on this album over and over. Water is one, color is another.Track 1:[29:57] Um, and day and night is a third thing. There was a fourth, I can't remember right now, but there was some definite themes through the entire album. Kirk, what did you think when you first heard as a mover? What I loved specifically about as a mover is the buildup. I think Justin may have referenced in, in some of the, those interviews where, um, how the production was every four bars, you got to get something new. So this really was uh okay you know you get the train feeling that's going on it's that moving it's the transformation it's the sorry not transformation but him him relocating to glenora as we'd mentioned now we're going into this as a mover and you know this these lyrics not just specifically for this song but for for this all album and i think in one of our messages together.Track 1:[30:53] It was hard to pin down some connections on some of these there there are some that are that are there but I agree with that that that guidance on that so as a mover to me loved it you know the sarcasm hey baby want to kiss closes it out with that that that particular theme and it's It's a driving, great rhythmic song. Another thing that was clear in my memory in some of the interviews that we got to see was he was so excited about this album in that it was genre-less, right? You can't just say it's a country album. You can't just say it's a pop album. You can't just say it's a jazz album. It has a little bit of everything. And he even talked about touring for this particular album, that they were doing a bunch of festivals and that they were jazz festival, a pop festival, a rock festival. It was different. So he was pretty proud of that fact. And I got that feeling with that as a mover. Justin, what was your take on the song? So I found a note somewhere that when Gord was writing this album, he was reading a book about Custer. And the title of the album, The Grand Bounce refers to a phrase that was coined during the Custer's involvement, whatever, in the 1860s. Whenever they deserted the cavalry, they called it the Grand Bounce. And desertion and moving and all this stuff really tie in together and –.Track 1:[32:22] This song is kind of what really sparked my thinking about that. Like, you know, this is, there's something happening here and yes, the, the train, you feel like you're on a train as soon as the song starts. And, um, it's definitely a different sound. This song is way different than anything that Gord had put out previously. And I know, again, I, it, it kind of rubbed me the wrong way a little bit. I mean, I've, I've come into all this with an open mind, but it was like, what is he trying to do here? It didn't, the production of this album, And the sound of the songs just did not match up with the first two albums. And this doesn't even match up with anything else that's on this album. And my first reaction was, is he trying too hard with this song to sound different? But it certainly has grown on me. But the theme of moving and desertion and the grand bounce itself, this song tied the album title together for me. Craig, what do you think? In the lyrics, you've got the wife, you know, not wanting to move and you've got the kids wanting to move all that, you know, wanting to go everywhere. And he says he's in the middle, he's got no opinion. So I kind of like that tension in here. I also love the line where he rhymes pressure and less sure. Oh, and he does it in this low register the second time through?Track 1:[33:44] I'm even less sure. And when he says it, he's almost talking it. It's so great. Yeah. And I know I mentioned to you guys in text that when I first heard this song, I was not a fan.Track 1:[33:58] And JD, you were a bit surprised by that. And then it just grew and grew and grew on me. Like more than any other song on the album. I love the song now. I really was not a fan at first. Just love the whole feel of it. And the little drum shuffle with the brushes. And i think what i didn't like at first was just the chorus there was something weird about just those words as a mover it's just not very smooth sounding it doesn't roll off yeah and so that that kind of bothered me at first but really it's whatever feelings i had about it have totally changed now i think it's totally yeah it's a really cool song i was with you that you know At first, I just didn't like it. But then I remembered the song is now 14 years old. And when it came out, I was listening to Mumford & Sons and I was into that sound. And this could be on one of their albums.Track 1:[34:50] And I had to force myself to transport back to that time period. And I would have loved the song back then. And also the, you know, the title as a, as a mover, it made me think like a double meaning could be like a mover is also a dancer. And the next song we have is the dance and its disappearance. And this was another song that I didn't love at first. It's still not one of my favorites on the album, but once I read the lyrics, once I got into the CD booklet and started trying to figure out what it was about, I started to appreciate it a lot more. And so I just want to read you this quick quote in the booklet. There's a quote from Crystal Pite, who I believe is a dancer. And she writes.Track 1:[35:38] It is an extreme expression of the present, a perfect metaphor for life. And it goes on. Once I kind of got what that phrase meant, it just started making sense. And when you watch the live videos of this song, every single performance of this, Gord has something to say about people in the audience with their cell phones. And he's very appreciative when there's not too many people with their cell phones. And he talks about, if you're filming this on a cell phone, you're getting 10% of the experience. Put it away.Track 1:[36:08] And there was one show in Victoria and I wrote down what he said. He says, you like that things disappear as they're happening. I don't see any phones in the air trying to capture 10%. Your brain can handle it. Let it resonate. Let it sink in. Wait till tomorrow, the day after, it'll be all right. Yeah. And I love that message. Yeah, me too.Track 1:[36:26] Fuck. Kirk? This song, when I first heard it, and we've had this discussion on some of the other albums, You know, can this be a hip song? And that opening little riff on this particular song was very hip-like. And there was another interview that I had looked up, I think Alan Cross was his name. And he had even had mentioned that on this particular, he wrote simply a hip-like song. So I think that was one thing that I appreciated is there was not any fear anymore. Like, it's okay because I am the guy who writes the stuff for the hip. So there's going to be songs that sound hip like, and I think he embraced it. But I think that I, the thing that I loved about this, and as I mentioned on the other songs and you guys as well is the, the harmonies with, with, with Julie on this, like that's okay. This is Gord Downie. This is that sound where with the hip it's, this is what I sound like when I sing with Paul or whoever's doing the backup. And I believe that he really captured that in this album, but that song as well. So that was one thing that I noted in my research on this particular song. I think this is my favorite tune on the record.Track 1:[37:41] Gord had that theme, let it disappear into the night and let it happen, use it up. That is a decades-long theme in whatever he's done, and I love the message. I also love the word a squirrel. Holy crap. What a great way to convey that you can't settle down. My mind a squirrel. Holy crap. Did anyone else look up Sudbury yellow? Speaking of colors, I mentioned earlier that color is a huge theme throughout the whole thing. Also tying into the cover art, which was actually a painting by Gord Downie himself. So I think art was much on his mind during the recording of this album. And there is different mentions of colours in so many different songs. So Sudbury Yellow references the colour of the staircase at Sudbury Hall in England. And when you look up a picture of it, it's a very striking yellow. It's actually pretty neat to look up. And also another great So he rhymes the word orange with door hinge. Yeah. Blood orange with door hinge. Yeah. That's great. And I did notice the color theme throughout this and, and art is again, a decades long theme with, with Gordon. And there are many more examples through and we'll get to that.Track 1:[38:57] Well, let's stick with you, Justin, and move forward to The Hard Canadian. When I think of this song, I always, I can close my eyes and I picture, this is going to be lost on the two Americans, I apologize, but I picture Relic from The Beachcombers as The Hard Canadian.Track 1:[39:16] Beachcombers was a CBC show based in the West Coast, and there were some hard-living fishermen type, and there was one character who was sort of a scoundrel, and his name was Relic, And he just looked like a hard Canadian. He looks like the lyrics to this song. But Justin, what do you think of the hard Canadian?Track 1:[39:34] So I had two trains of thought on this. And one was that I thought Gord might have been singing about himself and just the fuck you today kind of thing. But I also thought it was about the weather, maybe in the winter. And go out to the plains and it's brutal out there. And the hard Canadian weather doesn't care about you. You know, and yeah, so the hard Canadian in my weather theory is the hard Canadian don't give a damn about you. What's a windswept face to the elusive presence of the sun to the hard Canadian? Like, you know, it's winter all the time in some places. It's dark all the time in some places, you know, north of 60, right? And it's the line, whether he's just mean or willfully dense, like the weather is controlling itself. self. It was like Mother Nature or whatever is doing this on purpose to test you. Let's see if you come out the other side. Again, the art theme, there's the quote, and it's in quotations from life nothing to death nothing, refers to a piece of art by Frank Stella, which is, forgive my Spanish here, but de la nada vida a la nada muerte. Is that how you'd say it? But that's what it translates to, from life nothing to death nothing. And it's this massive piece of art that's It's very 1965 looking and it's just another theme in there. And I don't know how it ties in other than it's a.Track 1:[40:59] You know, foreboding dark quote. That's just my, I don't know. That's my interpretation of it. But you know, Gord obviously was going through some stuff too. And, and it, it felt like this was almost a third person narrative of a first person point of view. There was two songs on the album that I'm familiar with. The hard Canadian is the first time I heard it. I had definitely had heard it before, but had not, you know, process that it was not a hip song. I think I thought it was like a deep cut hip song or something when I heard it years ago. But the other one is, and I know we'll talk about it, The Night Is Forgetting.Track 1:[41:36] He would sing it when he would do hip songs. He would sing some of his gourd songs. So when I read that story or heard about that story, I'm like, I know I've heard that song before when they played out here in LA or whatever. So, but anyway, the hard Canadian, what he had mentioned was it was Mike, Mike Clattenberg trailer park boys. That's that, that's it's one of the series that I haven't watched. I've watched letter Kenny and I've watched, you know, several other Canadian, but I have not watched the trailer park boys. And he had mentioned that it was one of the guys I guess is one of the creators and he's like yeah I got this new thing and it's hard Canadian it's dope and and so when I'd heard that description I immediately thought of like if you guys are familiar with letter Kenny like Wayne is he's hard Canadian it's just gonna smoke a you know go out and smoke and have a puppers have a dart yeah having a dart exactly so that that was the imagery that I got from it I want to point out that this is the first song in section number two lyrically in the lyric booklet.Track 1:[42:39] And I just noticed that there's a quote here from Walter von Tilburg Clark, night is like a room. It makes the little things in your head too important. And I just realized that's the second verse of the East wind. And then I glanced forward section three has the lyric from the third verse. So the lyrics from the East wind are in here, but they're, they're heading each sections. And so in my mind, and they're quotes from other authors. Is that what it is? Yeah. It was, um, he said that song was made up of the East wind I'm talking about was made up of quote, like three quotes that he, that he loved. And I had seen that somewhere. Yes. And so the hard Canadian to me is like what JD said, like I'm picturing like a relic type. I had a baseball coach when I was a kid who he's this older guy and he always had like this about one inch left of a, of a homemade smoke. And, uh, and that, that line where he says, takes a puff of puff of nothing and pick something from his tongue. Like I just picture Mr. Heller, my baseball coach who, you know, for four years, you know, first 10 minutes of practice, you don't wear a glove. You're, you're passing the baseball just with bare hands and, and just thinking back to those, those times, there was another line that I want to bring up the silences.Track 1:[43:55] He don't listen to them. Do you think that's a reference to Pascal? Maybe that's interesting. Uh, I hadn't thought that, But because I'm thinking now my mind is a squirrel and I, I'm almost thinking this is about, you know, that, that, you know, rural Canadian, um, you know, like a relic type. And in my mind, Gord is trying to say maybe that, that there's more, more to that person than, than maybe meets the eye. I don't be so quick to judge when he says he, he blurs the image, drags his brush through the wet pigment. To me that line saying you know don't be so quick to judge the hard canadian well right at the end he mentions remembering someone too and that's absolutely you know makes sense and i know a lot of hard frenchmen that are from quebec that have been through hell and you get down to it and they're just you know beautiful soft men inside but you got to get through seven layers of onion to get there.Track 1:[44:56] And that really ties perfectly into the next song, which is Gone.Track 1:[48:41] Because it has a very similar story behind it, which I'll get into it a little bit. But Kirk, what were your thoughts on Gone? Yeah, no, I love that you actually had mentioned that you're going to get into more of the meaning of it. Because I have some thoughts and ideas, but what I really wanted to talk about on this particular one, from the musician side, that I absolutely loved about it is – I'll give the note that I wrote. And I can't remember exactly who it was that mentioned it to Gord, but he said it sounded like a moose in the distance.Track 1:[49:16] And when you listen to this tune, which is a beautiful tune, another great example of the harmonies, it's another one where you just hear the range of Gord's vocals that are just phenomenal and how he can cover the spectrum with that. But the fact that Dale Morningstar was using a theremin and had several different layers of the theremin recorded on that and you hear it. And then when you get confirmation of it, you go back and listen to it and you go, oh, wow. Right. Because there's only a few songs out there that we all know and love that have the theremin. Right. There's only what the Beach Boys and Led Zeppelin or the, you know, have have really pulled it off. So it's cool to see them jump out from a musician standpoint, musicianship standpoint.Track 1:[50:05] The other thing that I wanted to mention before, and I definitely want to hear Craig's thoughts on the meaning of it, was that Gord had mentioned in one of his interviews that this and I think The Night Is Forgetting, he called it the grandma and the grandpa. So he'd had these songs for a long time and he'd matured with them. And so I think that that anticipation of so much time between the two albums, but then having songs that came, you know, at different points along the way. And I just felt like this one had, it had marinated and it was, what was presented was what had, he had settled on, because I think that happens anyone who's done music creation. You're, you write it with a thought, a producer takes a look at it, an engineer takes a look at it, the rest of the band, and it becomes something different.Track 1:[50:55] Anyway, Craig, your thoughts on some of the meaning behind it. In the booklet, there's a quote from a Polish writer named Bruno Schultz. And it says, He had not been rooted in any woman's heart. He could not merge with any reality and was therefore condemned to float eternally on the periphery of life in half real regions on the margins of existence. And apparently this was in reference to his own father. So again, coming out of the last song, it seems to kind of tie into that idea of, at the end of The Hard Canadian, where there's someone he was remembering. So this idea of, there's actually the lyric in the song, gone and feeling half real on the edge of your life. And that ties directly to that quote. quote musically the bridge that there's a building bridge with uh julie singing backup and.Track 1:[51:48] Really really great songwriting and this was another song that really grew on me it's just such a catchy kind of fun fun song uh justin what did you think no i loved it right from the beginning it yeah it builds and it starts really slow and then it gets really slow again in the middle and it's quiet. I didn't dive too deeply into the lyrics, but there's definitely, you know, this is a life story kind of thing. And maybe at the end of it. Yeah. I just, I really love the way the song made me feel and that's only surface deep, but sometimes that's all you need in a song. And I don't know, I could listen to this one over and over. And I have. Okay. Kirk, how about the drowning machine? What are your thoughts there? I think we have another nautical disaster, could we call it, on this next song? Yeah, yeah. Through Drowning Machine. Drowning Machine. Until I actually looked it up, I didn't really know what it was talking about. But apparently, the Drowning Machine is like a common name for a weir, which is a low head dam, which if you've seen pictures of them, basically what happens is the water just cycles. And just if you get if you end up going over one of these dams you're.Track 1:[53:02] Pretty much not getting out and so gourd had apparently read a story about um about some girls being saved from the the bow river in alberta and um there was actually i i kind of looked up this this bow river and there's this this notorious um spot on the river where where i believe it said had 14 deaths in 30 years and they actually had a there one story there was there was actually a boom across so if you if you're totally out of you know if you miss all the signs and you you keep going down you can grab on to this boom at one point a storm had washed it washed it away and so a couple of men died in in i believe 2007 because the the boom had been washed out and so finally they did some construction and they and they have now made it into uh an area called the Harvey, this is called the Harvey passage. And apparently people go there to do white water rafting. And there's actually two kind of, um, passages that go through now two channels, uh, at different levels of, you know, for, for different levels of experience, um, for, for rafters. I had, I had done some research on the, um, Glenora song and there's a very treacherous river that it's like, Hey, don't go there, fly over it.Track 1:[54:20] And this reminded me of, reading about that, it reminded me of Niagara Falls, just the immense force of the water at the bottom. And you're not going to get out of there if you go over the falls.Track 1:[54:37] We had a deer camp when I was a kid on the Huntington Gorge here in Vermont. And there's a plaque with a list of 30 or so names of all the people that have died in the gorge. And our deer camp was the spot where the state police would fish the bodies out of the river every time there was one that ended up there you know we we couldn't get to the to the camp because they would use the front porch to be their their base of operations oh yeah wild and i i have to say at the end um there is some lead guitar at the end by dale that really at this point in the album when I was, especially on first listen, when I wasn't totally jiving with some of the earlier tracks, this song was the one that immediately I loved, like right off the bat. And hearing that guitar when Dale finally cuts loose and really leans into that dissonance, I felt like, okay, I'm starting to get this. And Kirk, what did you think of this? Yeah, I am fascinated, obviously, with Gord's fascination with water and the nautical side of things. But again, I think this song was just another great example of their time together and how they really... And I don't know if you guys noticed this.Track 1:[55:58] I don't think they played this on that six-part one, but I really enjoyed that it wasn't like a monarchy. You know, it wasn't Gord was given direction. It was everyone was involved. And I really loved the different parts that you would see with Chris Swala and his just subtle, nice guy production tips. So, um, I really love that interaction of, of how now that they've been done.Track 1:[56:25] A couple albums together and now it had been a little bit. And I also read something about how, yeah, they wanted to definitely get that indie vibe and they definitely wanted to have a variety of different styles of music, but how they also, you know, they're also very accomplished musicians and they've spent some time with some big bands and have played in some pretty, pretty big arena. So they could bring that to the songwriting and, and, and, and the music within this. So, and I really felt that too, moving into Yellow Days, which was the next one.Track 1:[1:00:51] I love this tune. This tune to me, and maybe I'm hearing something wrong, but there was almost kind of like a jazz bossa nova, just a real kind of amazing groove to it. And I also loved hearing about the story about Josie Dye, I think was her name. And they had had a passing at a festival way back when, when I think she was a hip fan and he was just walking around and that that that's That's actually part of the lyrics in this particular tune. But I love this song. He talks about it in some of the interviews and the descriptions about just the Canadian summers and how much the Canadians love that summer, but it goes by so quick.Track 1:[1:01:36] And so they're really just trying to make the most of every time they have good weather and they have a good moment and also keeping with Craig's color theme, which I love that you brought that up and along with the storytelling that's going on uh you know this is the here we are and and enjoying that summertime and almost reminiscent of them recording this album right for the two weeks i think in august and in 09 so justin did you dig this song yeah because we have the same summer and winter pattern that that you guys would up north today you know inside baseball we're not recording this in the summer when this is coming out we're recording it well before and it was the first warm day this year and I wore shorts and it was only 61 degrees outside. It was very windy. I shouldn't have had shorts on. But you take those moments and you wrap your life around them when you can get them. And 61 felt like 81 today. And I know the Canada gray because we have that here. It's Canada gray. Even as it's warm today, it's Canada gray outside. And just the imagery of it is wonderful. wonderful yeah and i mentioned the earlier the you know the theme of of days and nights so you know that's very obvious here uh and going into the next song and um.Track 1:[1:02:53] A couple of things, Kirk, when you were saying, you know, that beat at the start, I had the same thing. I was actually trying last night to figure out what type of beat this really was. The word that came to my mind was Calypso, but then I looked it up and it was not correct. But like this South American, like it's something I've heard. Bossa Nova was what came to my mind. So, you know, Calypso Bossa Nova, it's definitely a Caribbean feel. And, you know, the fact that it's on a Gord album, you know, again, just really talks to, you know, we had your hardcore on the last one and now we're doing Calypso Bossa Nova, you know, jazz type stuff. It's brilliant in my opinion. It reminded me of my grandmother's organ, you know, had those big tab buttons that there's a there's a pre-programmed beat and it's really bad not that the song's bad but on the organ it is yeah kirk your story about the you know everyone you know in this you know having so few.Track 1:[1:03:54] Summer days in certain parts of canada it reminds me of back in 96 my band was was in winnipeg we were playing you know this show at a you know the club that all the you know the all the decent bands played at and so we were really excited about playing this this club and uh it was on a weekend we thought like this is great and it turns out it was the the long weekend in august and everyone in town leaves for the for the lakes and there was nobody in town like not just for our show but anywhere it was just bizarre so those are the the yellow days of winnipeg well let's Let's continue on with you, Craig. Keep this wagon wheel going and talk about Night is Forgetting, which is a great title. Yeah. So, so again, the day, day and night theme and we go from yellow days and tonight is forgetting.Track 1:[1:04:46] And it was really bugging me this song because I'm like, I know that I know this song and I couldn't figure it out. And then I felt so stupid a week ago when I actually looked in my, on my phone and I had the hip version of this, which is from about, I think 2005, it was just a single. As far as I know, it was just released out of nowhere. It was, uh, I think it was left over from in between evolution. Okay. So, so I did have it. So I definitely been listening to it, you know, in the past, but it never was a song that, that interested me very much. So this one again, grew on me. I think I prefer this version now. It's, it's a little more upbeat. I love the piano. So, so shout out to Dr. P, John Press, who I don't think we mentioned last, last episode, but he is such a great player. I actually looked him up last night. I couldn't find too much about him online.Track 1:[1:05:38] And he is so tasteful. He never overplays until this is like, it was almost like someone said to me, you know, just, just let loose. And you can actually see, I'm sure you guys saw on the, on the bathhouse videos, you can see him rehearsing this on his own, kind of coming up with a part and man, he nails those, those runs. It's very impressive. It's so good. So I wrote, or I heard, and I could have definitely stole it, but I heard piano flurries. And that's exactly what it sounds like as a piano flurry when it starts driving. That's exactly what my note says. Yeah, piano flurries. And the one line that stuck out with me or to me was the dew drops on the luminous veil. And I know he mentioned this in the Alan Cross interview and the luminous veil being the suicide barriers they put up on the Bloor Street street viaduct in Toronto. I guess it was a place where there was just mass amounts of suicides, just 500 suicides and they finally put up this barrier.Track 1:[1:06:41] It's a 10 minute walk from my house, the Luminous Vale. When you guys come here, I'll show you the Luminous Vale. At night, it's very pretty, but in sort of a, I don't even know, like an eerie way because Because the sections that hold the guy wires up all look like crosses. Yeah, it's heavy, man. And so my last thing about this song, in one of the interviews, Gord, he mentions that he read a quote from, I believe, Thomas Jefferson saying something about war is forgetting another country's resources.Track 1:[1:07:19] And he said, I just replaced war with night. On the hip version of this, he actually does sing war is forgetting in the last chorus. us. So he changes that for this version. But I was actually looking up quotes from Jefferson last night. I didn't find anything that resembled such an idea. So if any listeners know what he was referencing here, I'd love to hear from you. So when Gord passed, there was an interview on some news, whatever, with Ron McLean from the CBC, or I don't know if he's the CBC anymore, more, but I knew him from Hockey Night in Canada growing up. And what I think was a quote that Gord said, but I've never been able to find it attributed to Gord, was, night takes the chances, day the reward. I love that quote. And he wrote an op-ed about Gord's passing that included that line as well. And it's just a beautiful line. And I sort of.Track 1:[1:08:19] Think of myself with my work that way. I sleep three hours a night just because that's how my body works. And I'm up till one in the morning and then I get up at 5.30. But I also love that forgetting and forgetting are really just a great sound in the song that can be interpreted in any possible way. Yes, I love that part of it. And as I mentioned earlier, this was one of the songs that I know I had heard before. And honestly, until I just recently had either read or heard that it was a hip song or that it was used on a couple of hip shows, I feel 100% positive that one of the shows that I saw, they played this. I haven't gone back and look at all the set list yet, but I feel pretty confident of that. So yeah. But just love the musicality of the song. I mean, that's the only thing I would add is just the musicality is insane. I have created this little thing that I've called Gord's Annunciation Era, where he's got a section of his career with a hip where he absolutely nails every letter in every word. And think of the lonely end of the rink, and it's a very hard – and this song is a great example of that. You know he says every letter in every word in every phrase and it's just a it's very distinct this this section of maybe eight or ten years of his career whether it's with the hip or solo.Track 1:[1:09:46] And I just love how he really makes his body be an instrument with words. And also the line, he says, weird undercurrent, we're undercurrent. And again, another reference to water in a way, but just thought that was a neat little turn of phrase there. Yeah, he's so good at that. And he changes just little tiny tweaks throughout this album in many different songs with words and lyrics and how he, it sounds the same on first two or three listens. And then you realize, oh no, this is a completely different set of words. Christmastime in Toronto, he did that too on the last album. And at the very end of this song, I love how he's singing over and over. Night is forgetting and then forgetting. And then there's one time when they totally phrase it differently. There's pauses.Track 1:[1:10:37] Do you know what I mean? I mean, the very last line, I think it is just a neat little, I love songs that have just one little quirk like that. Yes, yes, absolutely. You know what? It really goes back to, I'll be leaving you or I'll be leaving you tonight. I mean, right from the beginning, right? It's just a really cool trick that he's always done. Well, another, one of the other tricks that he's famous for is invoking his children and lullabying them. The next song, Moon Show Your Lashes, to me is just the process of writing some of these lullabies and things about his children. That's what it means to me. Mr. St. Louis, how about you? I took it as his battle with insomnia, you know, which is also a common theme throughout his career.Track 1:[1:11:25] And yes, I definitely picked up on the thing. Like, you know, there's a, there's a book that my wife and I love called go the fuck to sleep, you know, talking about your kids, like just give us a break, man. And tonight, in fact, before we recorded, my daughter was taking a bath and she's trying to speak Spanish and she's yelling it and asking my wife questions in the other room in Spanish. And I walked in and Linda looks up at me and whispers, she needs to shut the fuck up. You know, just those moments of give it a rest, kid. But I think that it could be interpreted either way that like, yeah, he's talking about his kids. Like just, okay, relax. We get it. moon slow your lashes.Track 1:[1:12:09] But, you know, I think, The way that I took it was more of Gord by the lamp with a notepad trying to come up with the next song and wondering, you know, there's the line, what must he think? And no more, I think he thinks. And kind of judging himself or his work before it's even completed and just not being able to reconcile that. For what it's worth, I love the lyrics in this song. I friggin' hate the tune. I hate this song.Track 1:[1:12:39] It's so annoying. And I don't know what it is about it. And it's such an earworm. And it's the one I can't get out of my head. I can't stand the song. Get out of here. Wow. Actually just blown away by what Justin said, because I absolutely love the tune. Me too. And I think it's that 2010s, as you mentioned, you know, like there's such a massive influence from all of them individually as artists, but obviously Death Cab and that influence, but I think what they were listening to at the time. And so I mentioned that I really liked this album. So, you know, there's, there's no real duds on it for me. So, I mean, there's little things of course that I could critique, but to me, this particular album and, and, and even this song like this, this one's really up there. For me you know i'm still trying to decide what's going to be my favorite song from this and it's the first time that i didn't know instantaneously i particularly i enjoyed you know again just how it made me feel it gave me that that just that cool this is where we're at in this this time in music like it was it was it had it has some heavy lyrics but it it's i mean not crazy heavy but it was an upbeat song, I think, overall. So I appreciated it. So there was a story, Gord, in one of the interviews online I found.Track 1:[1:14:01] Talks about a radio essay he was listening to by, by someone named Neil McDonald. And he was talking about a woman who would go up to a place called high level Alberta. So when they, when he says high level in the, in the book, in, in, in the song, I had noticed in the booklet, it was capitalized. So it actually is a place up in Northern Alberta. And this woman would go up to um, Northern Alberta and, um, make, make some money. You can probably imagine how she's making her money and, and she would do this in order to support her kids. And, uh, and then when she got back to her kids, I just want to want to hold and smell. And another crazy example of how Gord writes these like incredibly upbeat, like you hear it and you fall in love with it because it makes you feel good, but it's dark AF.Track 1:[1:14:52] It's just got some real, real, real just black undertones in some of it, but the music just keeps you going. And that line that says, when, not if, after, when I get out of high level, when, not if. Yeah. And forget the, in the bridge, I think it is the forget the hawks, jaguars, the knife lickers and creeps. And yeah, it just really changed my perspective of the song and and yeah that that juxtaposition between the the sort of cute music and the dark lyrics some some more themes of um you know burgundy the color burgundy dance dance so again dance is the the one earlier that i was forgetting when i was talking about themes so themes on this album water you've got day and night you've got color and you've got dance and this song has a couple of those things in it and and to me it was like you know the things we do for our family oh like i like i said i i really love the story in the song and the lyrics and trying to figure out what i think i thought but just the tune i can't do it i don't know why man i'm sorry i'm i'm i'm not totally crazy about this song uh it's not my lead i'm actually we passed by my my least favorite without me saying but but to me um The Hard Canadian is the weak link on this album. To me, it's just a... Oh, wow. Yeah, it's just... I think it's the chord progression has just so been done before. Yeah, I'm not in love with it either. And that's the one song that I was familiar with on this album. This song, I wasn't too much of a fan of at first, but I do really like it now. It has grown on me, especially I think hearing that story. Well, are we ready to jump into Retrace?Track 1:[1:20:11] This song, my note, it just says vocally amazing. That's the note I have.Track 1:[1:20:18] I'm sure there's an amazing meaning behind the whole song. I really don't care. I just want to hear Gord sing the main line. I retrace my steps. And it just puts me in this amazing, wonderful, just warm place like we talked about in the beginning. And even Gord in some of his interviews talked about how the process and these songs were company to him. And that's what I felt with this retrace, this tune. And again, another great pairing from harmonies and also great build. And also, as we'd mentioned before, where that whole theory of every four bars coming up with something new, the retrace song, it definitely had additions and installations to create this. I just, yeah, maybe I'm dating myself, but I don't know if you guys are familiar with the band, the Smithereens.Track 1:[1:21:17] Kind of had a Smithereens vibe to it. Had a Lou Reed vibe to it. I know that there'

The fox eyes the thrush chirping to the Irish & Celtic Music Podcast #661. Subscribe now! Conor Mallon, Blackthorn, Fialla, Maggie's Wake, Charlene Adzima, Runa, The Crowfoot Rakes, The Drowsy Lads, Telenn Tri, Clare Cunningham, Ramblxr, Elias Alexander & Maura Shawn Scallion, Shades of Green, Drumspyder, Fig for a Kiss GET CELTIC MUSIC NEWS IN YOUR INBOX The Celtic Music Magazine is a quick and easy way to plug yourself into more great Celtic culture. Enjoy seven weekly news items for Celtic music and culture online. Subscribe now and get 34 Celtic MP3s for Free. VOTE IN THE CELTIC TOP 20 FOR 2024 This is our way of finding the best songs and artists each year. You can vote for as many songs and tunes that inspire you in each episode. Your vote helps me create next year's Best Celtic music of 2024 episode. You have just three weeks to vote this year. Vote Now! You can follow our playlist on Spotify to listen to those top voted tracks as they are added every 2 - 3 weeks. It also makes it easier for you to add these artists to your own playlists. You can also check out our Irish & Celtic Music Videos. THIS WEEK IN CELTIC MUSIC 0:06 - Conor Mallon “Mist from the Moyle” from Unearthed 3:43 - WELCOME 6:40 - Blackthorn “Mazurka/Sally Gardens” from Here's To You 9:49 - Fialla “The Creggan White Hare” from Home & Away 15:50 - Maggie's Wake “Adaptation” from Maggie's Wake 18:27 - Charlene Adzima “Einini” from The Initiation 20:40 - FEEDBACK 24:29 - Runa “The Fox” from When The Light Gets In 29:48 - The Crowfoot Rakes “Hector the Hero” from Off She Goes 34:19 - The Drowsy Lads “Johnny Todd” from Wide Awake 38:18 - Telenn Tri “Weasel's Revenge set” from The Cat's Meow 43:53 - THANKS 45:32 - Clare Cunningham “Wherever you are I will go” from ON MY WAY (AR MO BHEALACH) 49:03 - Ramblxr, Elias Alexander & Maura Shawn Scanlin “Wildflower” from Wildflower 53:00 - Shades of Green “White Picket Fences” from Conversations We Never Had 56:27 - Drumspyder “Silver Spear” from Green Mantle 1:00:33 - CLOSING 1:02:08 - Fig for a Kiss “Thrush” from Wherever You Go 1:06:46 - CREDITS The Irish & Celtic Music Podcast was produced by Marc Gunn, The Celtfather and our Patrons on Patreon. The show was edited by Mitchell Petersen with Graphics by Miranda Nelson Designs. Visit our website to follow the show. You'll find links to all of the artists played in this episode. Todd Wiley is the editor of the Celtic Music Magazine. Subscribe to get 34 Celtic MP3s for Free. Plus, you'll get 7 weekly news items about what's happening with Celtic music and culture online. Best of all, you will connect with your Celtic heritage. Please tell one friend about this podcast. Word of mouth is the absolute best way to support any creative endeavor. Finally, remember. Reduce, reuse, recycle, and think about how you can make a positive impact on your environment. Promote Celtic culture through music at http://celticmusicpodcast.com/. WELCOME THE IRISH & CELTIC MUSIC PODCAST * Helping you celebrate Celtic culture through music. I am Marc Gunn. This podcast is for fans of Celtic music. Not just the big names you've probably heard of. But also the Celtic bands in your neck of the woods, at your festivals. It is here to build a diverse Celtic community and help the incredible artists who so generously share their music with you. If you hear music you love, please email artists to let them know you heard them on the Irish and Celtic Music Podcast. Musicians depend on your generosity to keep making music. So please find a way to support them. Buy a CD, Album Pin, Shirt, Digital Download, or join their communities on Patreon. You can find a link to all of the artists in the shownotes, along with show times, when you visit our website at celticmusicpodcast.com. Live music promo for ICM If you are a Celtic musician or in a Celtic band, then please submit your band to be played on the podcast. You don't have to send in music or an EPK. You will get a free eBook called Celtic Musicians Guide to Digital Music and learn how to follow the podcast. It's 100% free. Just email Email follow@bestcelticmusic and of course, listeners can learn how to subscribe to the podcast and get a free music - only episode. Episodes are booked up through June.   Plastic Free July. Plastic Free July® is a global movement that helps millions of people be part of the solution to plastic pollution – so we can have cleaner streets, oceans, and beautiful communities. Will you be part of Plastic Free July by choosing to refuse single - use plastics? THANK YOU PATRONS OF THE PODCAST! You are amazing. It is because of your generosity that you get to hear so much great Celtic music each and every week. Your kindness pays for our engineer, graphic designer, Celtic Music Magazine editor, promotion of the podcast, and allows me to buy the music I play here. It also pays for my time creating the show each and every week. As a patron, you get ad - free and music - only episodes before regular listeners, vote in the Celtic Top 20, stand - alone stories, you get a private feed to listen to the show or you can listen through the Patreon app.  All that for as little as $1 per episode. A special thanks to our new and continued Patrons of the Podcast: James Dolan, Pam Kosty HERE IS YOUR THREE STEP PLAN TO SUPPORT THE PODCAST   Go to our Patreon page. Decide how much you want to pledge every week, $1, $5, $25. Make sure to cap how much you want to spend per month. Keep listening to the Irish & Celtic Music Podcast to celebrate Celtic culture through music. You can become a generous Patron of the Podcast on Patreon at SongHenge.com. TRAVEL WITH CELTIC INVASION VACATIONS Every year, I take a small group of Celtic music fans on the relaxing adventure of a lifetime. We don't see everything. Instead, we stay in one area. We get to know the region through its culture, history, and legends. You can join us with an auditory and visual adventure through podcasts and videos. This fall, I'm taking a very small group of invaders to taste whisky and hike the hills and dales of Scotland. We still have two spots open. Learn more about the invasion at http://celticinvasion.com/ #celticmusic #irishmusic #celticmusicpodcast I WANT YOUR FEEDBACK What are you doing today while listening to the podcast? Please email me. I'd love to see a  picture of what you're doing while listening or of a band that you saw recently. Email me at follow@bestcelticmusic. Stan Berry emailed: “Good morning from Northern Alberta. I just got back from another trip into the wilds of Northern British Columbia. It snowed last week while I was driving up but cleared up in a couple of days leaving everything very wet and sloppy. There must have been over 100 pounds of mud on my vehicle. The bears are out and I have seen a couple of black bears along the roads. The bush is very dry this year and one place where I normally see trumpeter swans and other aquatic birds is completely dry. I will include a couple of photographs from this time last year. There is great concern about the potential wildfire situation this summer. I truly enjoy listening to the podcasts while I drive. Unfortunately, I have been unable to download the last couple of them. Has there been a change in the way they are posted? Please give my warmest regards to your family. I regret that I was unable to journey to the states this spring as there have been a number of changes on behalf of some of my clients.” Carl C emailed: “I'm disappointed you needed to do this after all these years. It detracts from the quality of the podcast.” Thank you Carl for writing. I really appreciate the feedback. As I emailed when you wrote, I am still testing the ads. I have decided I don't prefer them at the beginning of the show. So at present, at least, I'm not doing that. As I continue to test, I will only have them at the end of the show. Right now, I am leaning on the idea of keeping those on the show. Because even a little bit of money helps with finances. But I will make a final decision in July or August when I should have some better understanding of the results of my tests. Timothy Potts of Clay Babies emailed a photo: “Hi Marc, You played one of our songs last year on your show. We just released a NEW ALBUM of CELTIC FIDDLE TUNES!!! We are very excited! We recorded the whole thing live on New Year's Eve as if we were playing at a session. Here is a link to the Bandcamp page: If you play any of the sets, I'd recommend track one or track three. On November 1st my wife gave me a Celtic Podcast shirt, pint glass and some recordings for my birthday. I've been enjoying them (see attached pic)!”  

It was so great to have Chad and Eileen back on the podcast to give us a very detailed overview of their six week trip to Alaska. Even better, they are planning on returning for an entire season so they let us know what they are doing differently to prepare for their next journey. Price It's no secret that Alaska is expensive. They share how even though they anticipated to spend a little more here, they still underestimated it. Internet If you want to have some sort of internet connection while you make the drive to Alaksa, Starlink is your best bet. They mentioned how they had very poor service, and even if they didn't need to use it, knowing they could fire up Starlink if they needed to gave them peace of mind. Things to Do From boat rides, plane rides, and hiking, they stayed very busy. They admit they didn't do a ton of excursions, but since Alaksa is such beautiful place to be, they really didn't need to. We discussed a few things they are looking forward to doing next time as well. 3, 2, 1 Countdown 3 Things to Bring to Alaska ·        Bug spray, fly swatter, bug net ·        Blackout curtains, eye mask ·        Binoculars 2 Things to Be Prepared For ·        Bugs and mosquitoes ·        Bears 1 Thing You Can't Leave Alaska Without Doing ·        The plane ride or jumping in a lake Chapters 00:00 Introduction 01:00 How much time did you spend in Alaska and what did you cover? 02:00 How much time should someone spend in Alaska and when should they go? 04:00 How was it bringing your dog with you to Alaska? 07:15 Sightseeing plane ride in Alaska 09:30 How did you get to Alaska with your van? 13:00 Favorite camping spots? 14:45 How expensive is it in Alaska? 15:15 What activities did you do in Alaska? 18:30 What is there to do at night in Alaska? 20:15 How long did it take to adjust to it not getting dark? 23:30 How was the food scene in Alaska? 24:30 How are you preparing differently for your next trip to Alaska? 26:00 What are three things people should bring to Alaska? 27:45 What are two things people should prepare for before they visit Alaska? 30:15 How are the roads in Alaska? 32:00 What can't you leave Alaska with out doing? Chad and Eileen on Social: ·        Miles Van Life: https://www.instagram.com/themilesvanlife/ ·        Eileen's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eileenrosemiles/ ·        Eileen's Website: https://www.eileenrose.me/ ·        Eileen's Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-inward-journey/id1666397129 ·        Chad's IG: https://www.instagram.com/chadmmiles/ ·        Chad's Podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2228949/share Locations ·        Fairbanks: https://www.explorefairbanks.com/ ·        Denali National Park: https://www.nps.gov/dena/index.htm ·        Hatche Pass: https://www.alaska.org/detail/hatcher-pass ·        Anchorage: https://www.anchorage.net/ ·        Kenai Peninsula: https://www.travelalaska.com/Destinations/Regions/Southcentral/Kenai-Peninsula ·        Whittier: https://www.alaska.org/destination/whittier ·        Hope: https://www.alaska.org/destination/hope   To Do: ·        Boat Trip to Juneau: https://alaskafjordlines.com/ ·        Plane Ride: https://www.katair.com/ ·        Katmai Bear Viewing Tours: https://katmaiair.com/   Restaurants ·        Karstens Public House: https://www.westmarkhotels.com/denali-food/ ·        Anchorage Breweries: https://www.anchorage.net/restaurants/breweries/   Camping ·        Dyea Flats: https://www.alaska.org/detail/dyea-campground   Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/sky-toes/gently-comes-tomorrow License code: JNNG98EA42W634JP   *All content from atravelpath.com, including but not limited to The Travel Path Podcast and social media platforms, is designed to share general information. We are not experts and the information is not designed to serve as legal, financial, or tax advice. Always do your own research and due diligence before making a decision.   Transcript Host: All right, Chad and Eileen, welcome back to the Travel Path Podcast.   Guest: Hi, we're happy to be back. So, in case you missed the first episode, we talked about all their van life adventures, and we took a pretty deep dive into some of the finances and a lot of the things that people don't think about with van life, including routines or lack of routines, getting kind of out of the routines you're used to living at home, and transitioning to van life. So, if you haven't listened, give it a listen. For part two, travel tips, we're talking about one destination. So, Chad and Eileen, what destination are we talking about today?   Guest: We're going to talk about Alaska.   Host: All right.   Guest: Our favorite place in the world for sure.   Host: So, I guess that's what made you decide to share about Alaska today, is just how much you love it?   Guest: Yeah, and I think last summer, we made our first trip up to Alaska, and we spent about six weeks there. And it was such an overwhelming experience trying to figure out and plan for all the things that we might need to go there, and so maybe we can make it a little bit simpler for people by sharing today.   Host: Awesome. How much time did you guys spend in Alaska, and what did you actually cover when you were there?   Guest: So, we spent a total of about six weeks in Alaska. That doesn't include the drive up or the drive back, but our six weeks in Alaska, we covered quite a bit. So, we went up the more northern route. We started in Fairbanks, and then we made our way south from there. So, we hit Denali National Park, we went to Hatcher Pass, we went to Anchorage, down to the Kenai Peninsula, and then on our way out of Alaska, we went down to Skagway and took a boat trip to Juneau as well. So, we covered quite a bit of it.   Host: Yeah, you certainly did. So, would you say for someone who is living this van life journey or taking a cross-country trip, how much do you think six weeks is a really good time for them to experience Alaska? Or would you say plan more or you could plan less?   Guest: We are going back for the entire summer, but I know that's not realistic for everyone, but you probably will fall in love with it as well and want to go back for longer. But we do feel anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks is enough time to get the most out of it and see, you know, the Denali National Park, which is our favorite place, and then the Kenai Peninsula for sure. So, four to six weeks would be good.   Host: Yeah, good. So obviously, you know, if you're going to really enjoy the national parks and probably have a great time, you want to go in the summertime when it's not the dead of winter. What are some of those seasonal highlights for you guys, at least when you were there?   Guest: Well, yes, you 100% need to see Alaska in the summer because in the winter, it is, I think, it's four or six hours of daylight, and the rest is all dark. And so in the summer, you get 20 hours of daylight. So, you have longer days in the summer. It's actually wild how long they are. We tried to see the Northern Lights, and it never got dark enough. So, that's what's great, though, about the summertime is the days are long, and you can start a hike at 4 p.m., for example. It's beautiful. There's a lot of fish out in the rivers that you can catch and enjoy fresh. There's beautiful flowers, and everything is just beautiful in the summer. So, there's lots of wildlife that are out in the summer. So, you're looking, if you're planning on going up to Alaska, your window to be there is about mid-June through September 1st. Outside of that, you're going to run into some colder temperatures. But when we were there, we were there mid-July through about September 1st, and I mean, it was beautiful, 60, 70-degree days. We had a lot of sunshine while we were there, so the weather is definitely a highlight if you're there in the summertime.   Host: Yeah, sure. And then you're traveling with Sadie, your dog. So, do you feel like she was able to go on all these hikes with you? Were there any restrictions that you kind of got snagged on?   Guest: She couldn't enjoy the Denali National Park hikes with us. But Hatcher Pass, for example, is a hidden gem south of Denali, is that right? Okay. And it's beautiful, and it honestly reminded me of Switzerland, even though I've never been to Switzerland. I've only seen photos, but it's just beautiful, stunning mountain ranges, super green, and she could hike with us there. So, we figured out a lot of places where she could adventure. And I mean, Alaska in itself is beautiful no matter where you go outside of the park. So, she could be everywhere with us. And they do say traveling with a dog or traveling in a pack does spook the bears away and animals away too. I don't know, we never had that encounter, thank goodness, with a bear. But it's good. They actually, it's good to travel with your pets and hike with them.   Host: So perfect, now diving just a little bit deeper into some of the things and places that you guys actually went to in Alaska. Do you have any highlights or spots that you think maybe you should spend a little more time or a little less time in that you went to?   Guest: I think the area that we'd like to spend more time in would be the Kenai Peninsula. It's an incredible place because you've got some beautiful mountains and you're right on the ocean, so you've got the mix of both. The climate's really interesting, and some of the little towns are fascinating. The little town of Whittier and the little town of Hope were these unbelievable places that it's hard to imagine exist. So, that area has got so much natural beauty, there's national parks down there, so the Kenai Peninsula is definitely an area that we spent a fair amount of time. We were there for maybe a week or so, but we definitely would like to go back and spend some more time. And Denali National Park is just an incredible place. You get to go see Mount Denali, which is an unbelievable sight, as long as you can see it, which you need to have a clear day in order to be able to see it. But that was an area—I actually have family in that area—so we hung around there for probably about two weeks and just really enjoyed it. And if you want a really unique experience while you're there, we would definitely recommend flying. So, we went for a flight in a small six-person plane, and it just gave you this incredible view of all the natural beauty that's out there and a really unique perspective.   Host: I remember seeing that Reel, it looked awesome.   Guest: It was, I still dream of it to this day. And when we go back, we're running to that small plane and going for another flight. I do want to say, though, I think, nothing against Fairbanks, but it's just another typical town. That's something that we wouldn't really recommend you don't need to go. We think that, yeah, spend more time down in Denali area, Hatcher Pass, Kenai Peninsula, and you'll be golden.   Host: Awesome. Now, speaking of that plane ride, because if anybody goes and looks at your Instagram and sees what that looks like, it's going to absolutely be on their bucket list. What do you remember, cost-wise, to do something like that? Like, what should someone prepare for?   Guest: So this is where it's not going to be very helpful because my cousin is a pilot, and so, shout out to Greg, he lives out there, and so he operates an air taxi service and operates a lodge within Denali National Park, so we got to fly for free. However, if you are looking to fly, you're looking to pay probably about $250 per person for like an hour sightseeing flight. So, it's not necessarily cheap, and it is absolutely worth it because the things that you will see are unbelievable. So, would still recommend, but I know that's not a super helpful answer. I will say, too, the Denali National Park, there's a road closure right now, and it will be closed for a couple more years. And so it's just the best way to see more of the park because, sadly, you can only drive in. It's still gorgeous, of course, but you can only drive in to a certain point, and then they make you turn around because it's not safe. The, I don't know how to explain it, but the road kind of just collapsed on itself, I guess. So, yeah, you definitely want to take that plane ride. And I'm someone who was really fearful of flying, and it was so peaceful once you just get distracted by how beautiful it is. And it's really, really beautiful, and you just can't think about how scared you are. So, it's worth it.   Host: Perfect. And you said Greg operates a company that'll actually take people out to do this, right?   Guest: Yeah, so his company is Kantishna Air Taxi, and so they offer private sightseeing flights, and he's a great pilot.   Host: Awesome. We'll put his information in the show notes, and then tell him Chad sent them.   Guest: That'd be great.   Host: So, as far as transportation to actually get there, obviously, you can fly in. There's tons of ways. But you guys are taking yourself converted van. So, what was that process like for you to actually drive into Alaska, and what did you need to prepare before?   Guest: So, there's two primary routes that you can take if you're going to drive to Alaska. One of them is the Alaskan Highway that starts in Dawson Creek, Alberta, and takes you through Northern Alberta into the Yukon Territory and then over into Alaska. That route is a little bit more commercialized. It's the most popular route to take. And so, there's just some more options for food or more options for lodging and more stops for gas along that route. We came that way back from Alaska down through Canada. The other route that you can take is the Cassiar Highway, which runs along the western part of Canada and takes you up through British Columbia. That route, in our opinion, is more naturally beautiful. It is also very remote. There was a period of three or four days as we were driving. This was during the work week, so we were driving maybe three to four hours per day, but there was a three to four day period where we did not have cell phone service one time. So, it is very remote. There's not a ton of options for lodging or for gas. So, you definitely would need to be in a van or an RV if you want to go that route so that you can find random spots to stay. And you need to have some pretty off-grid capable. But if that is the case, that was the route that we enjoyed the most. Going through the mountains of British Columbia was unbelievable. It was really, really nice, and that's probably the route that we will end up going back when we head back there this summer.     Host: Very good. I guess that's why in episode one that you guys did, you talked about getting the Starlink, and you're glad you had it going into Alaska, right?   Guest: 100%. Yeah, we talked to a couple of people that had gone to Alaska before, so that's a great tip too, you know? If you're thinking about going to Alaska, reach out to us for sure, and we can tell you all our tips and tricks. But someone said, "No, you for sure need a Starlink because there's just complete dead zones." And, yeah, anytime you pass a gas station, fill up no matter where you're at. And yeah, it's quite the adventure. As far as what else we'd recommend planning, I mean, if you have something like Starlink, then of course you can get access to the internet everywhere, and that gave us a little bit of peace of mind so that if something were to go wrong as we were traveling and we were in more remote places, you know that you could hop on the internet and you could get in contact with whoever you needed to. Otherwise, I would say just plan for the fact that gas is really expensive, especially in that part of Canada and in Canada in general. So, the cost of gas is going to be very high. That's something to plan for. And then as far as like your food and what you're bringing with you and some of your rations with water, you'll just want to be a little bit more intentional about some of those things because it is more sparse and it's more remote. And so, have a plan for food, pack a lot more dry food that you can have access to as you're traveling just in case you go longer spells without having access to a grocery store. But those are some of the things that I think would be a good idea to think about.   Host: Yeah, very good. Good tips. I like that. And then as far as once you got into Alaska, I assume you probably stayed the majority of the time in your van. Maybe you stayed with your family a little bit. But did you guys have any spots that were like these amazing spots you need to go find them to park your van at for the night? Or were there any campgrounds that you stayed at?   Guest: Oh, my goodness. There's so many spots that we loved. On our way up there, there's a spot in the Yukon that was really sketchy to drive down to, but we loved it. And the other thing, if you're going to caravan with people, definitely have walkie-talkies because that just makes it so much more fun when you see a black bear or see a moose. That's also something, definitely have walkie-talkies. And we used that when we were driving down this sketchy road to this beautiful spot in the Yukon. And then in Alaska itself, I mean, there's just... we... you can stay at Hatcher Pass, you can stay in... there's a place in Seward where we loved, and it's super flat, so there's a ton of different vans and Airstreams and all sorts of campers there too. We didn't stay in any campgrounds, though. I don't think we did. There's a spot called the Dyea Flats, which is if you go to Skagway, a really, really beautiful place, one of our maybe favorite camp spots that we had. So, we did a lot of... I mean, the nice thing about driving to Alaska is that there's tons of options of places to stay because you can stay pretty much anywhere. So, when you think of BLM or Forestry Service land out west as you're going through British Columbia and the Yukon and when you're in Alaska, that's a majority of what's out there. There's not many people, so you can just go to little pull-offs or if you find a place where you can fit your rig, for the most part, you can probably stay there. So, you can kind of get off the beaten path and find some really unique places to sleep and stay for a night or stay for a few days.   Host: Yeah, very cool. So it sounds like as far as finding a spot to sleep, you don't have to worry about shelling out a ton of money for that. Gas is a little bit expensive, but as far as other costs in Alaska, what do you guys feel like? Were you spending way more on food or do you feel like it was pretty comparable to other places you've been?   Guest: We were spending a lot more on food for sure. We went to this one small grocery store, I remember, and I felt like they had things shipped in from Costco but then jacked up the prices. So definitely, food is expensive because the grocery stores are really far away from each other. And those will definitely be the two biggest things to plan for: food and gas. Your typical food and gas budget for a month, I would multiply them by probably one and a half and expect that that's probably about what you'll pay for as you're traveling to Alaska and back. And then, of course, it's just kind of discretionary from there. But if you want to eat out, if you want to do activities, things are definitely a bit more expensive as you're going through those different areas. So those would be good things to plan for from a budgeting standpoint.   Host: Yeah, sure. Besides the plane, were there any other activities that you guys did indulge in while you were there?   Guest: No, yes, there wasn't. Frankly, we were on a budget on our trip last summer, and you know, some of that was because we didn't know or realize how expensive gas would be, how expensive food would be. So we didn't really necessarily plan for that, which meant we had less money to spend doing things. But there's tons of activities that you could do if you wanted to. Go whitewater rafting, or if you wanted to go on a boat ride, or if you wanted to go fishing, there are a lot of things that you could do up there. I was going to say, our boat ride, that's why I said no, yes. We did do a boat ride from Skagway to Juno through the Inside Passage. Oh my gosh, it was beautiful. And thanks to my mother-in-law, Chad's mom, that was our birthday gift, I believe, or Christmas... yeah, birthday gift. So yeah, we had some... we were definitely budgeting, and there was... we had a couple of friends that did the plane ride to Katmai, I think it's called, and we would love to do that this summer because that's a place where you can go fly another small plane, beautiful experience. And then there's tons of grizzly bears that are enjoying salmon right in the river, and it's all... there's electric fences, I believe, to just kind of keep you safe. I mean, the grizzlies are super focused on the fish, so everyone's pretty much safe, but it's a beautiful, really cool experience. And honestly, the only way I think I'd want to see a grizzly, but so yeah, there's that trip that people can look forward to. And then I would love to do the whitewater rafting, but so maybe this summer we'll be able to do that. But yeah, all we did last time was the plane ride and the boat trip. I highly recommend that.   Host: For sure, that's awesome. And I mean, you're in Alaska, so especially in the summer, like, put your hiking boots on and start walking.   Guest: Like, that's an adventure in itself. And I think that's the thing, is that you don't necessarily... all of those things are options. I'm sure we didn't get to do many of them, but they would be incredible experiences. And every day, you can just walk out of your van door or whatever your rig is, and there's just natural beauty all around you. And there's tons of free activities and places to explore, so we never found ourselves running out of things to do.   Host: Very cool. Now, obviously, you were there in the summer, so you have a little bit more sunlight than we might be used to, but what was there to do at night?   Guest: Stay outside, because it's light out. One of my favorite memories is we were in Alaska with DJ and Garen, and we were all sitting around a campfire, and Chad was basically falling asleep in his chair. He's like, "I'm ready to go to bed." And I said, "Why?" And it was because it was almost midnight, but it was super light out. So, I mean, at night, you just... you stay outside and hang out, or try to catch the Northern Lights. I mean, those are a huge thing up there, but it honestly didn't get dark enough where we were, so to the point where you could start a four-hour hike at 6 p.m. and you would still finish it with daylight, and you would be fine. So, the answer to what you can do at night is pretty much everything that you could do during the day, which is a very unique experience.   Host: I love that. Normally, we ask, where is a good sunrise or sunset spot? But I mean, those happen so quickly and all together. Probably that... did you even see a real sunrise or sunset when you were there?   Guest: That's a good point. I'm trying to think... I mean, we may... well, we may have seen a couple, but the thing about the daylight, so it is like 20 hours of daylight. So, technically, that means that for four hours, the sun has gone below the horizon. However, it doesn't ever get fully dark. So, I think, like Eileen might have mentioned at one point or maybe in the past episode, there was one night where we tried to see the Northern Lights. We stayed up till about 2:30 a.m. and went to bed realizing that it was never going to get dark enough that wasn't going to be possible. So, um, yeah, starting to get brighter.   Host: That's got to be a weird thing to get used to. How long did it take you to just get used to it being bright all the time? And at what point did it start getting dark?   Guest: It's a very weird thing to get used to. Your internal clock just gets very thrown off. So, I would say for the first probably two or three weeks, it took us a long time to acclimate to it. And your body doesn't feel tired. It'll be 10:00 and it's still very bright out. And so, your body's like, "Well, I don't think it's time to go to bed." So, back to trying to force yourself into some semblance of a routine, we found that that helped, trying to go to bed at 10:30 or 11 o'clock every night. We would definitely recommend having blackout curtains or magnetic shades that you can put on your van or your rig or using something like an eye mask or an eye pillow so that you need to create darkness because it won't be there like you're used to. It's weird.   Host: That's good tips, though, because I mean, everyone knows that in the summer, Alaska's bright, but actually hearing from someone who stayed there for an extended time, like, yeah, no, it really is bright, and you need to bring that eye mask or something. I think that's a really good tip and just something to be prepared for.   Guest: Yeah. And I remember even driving at 8:00 p.m. or 9:00 p.m., right, and the sun was still in your eye. So, 100% bring sunglasses, um, because it's just wild. It's always out, which is beautiful, but it's really... it's weird, for sure. And so then what's kind of odd is, since there's such a huge swing going from 20 hours of daylight in the summer and then 20 hours of darkness in the winter, around late August and September, you start experiencing the difference, and it starts changing. And if you're from the lower 48, you're used to maybe the sunset changes two, three minutes per day, and up in Alaska, it was changing as much as like 8 to 9 minutes per day. So, all of a sudden, a week goes by and it's getting dark an hour earlier. So, when we left in September, I think it was getting dark by like 8:30 or 9:00 p.m. So, it is amazing how it starts to swing. But if you're going there in June, July, early August, it's still going to be pretty bright up.   Host: Wow, that's fascinating. Yeah, and I can't even imagine going there in the wintertime when it's the exact opposite. It would drive you crazy.   Guest: We did meet a couple of those people that can handle it. Actually, his cousin Greg who lives there, he leaves in the winter because yeah, it's just... it's too dark. And we talked to a couple of folks that do stay the whole year, and they say that they never go anywhere without their headlamp. And some of them try to convince us that it's beautiful, which I'm sure it is in its own way, but that would be so hard, I think.   Host: Yeah, yeah. I don't know how it could be beautiful if it's pitch black the whole time.   Guest: The moonlight's... well, the Northern Lights.   Host: Yeah, you can probably see the Northern Lights all day, right?   Guest: Basically. That's funny.   Host: So transitioning now into food, did you guys stop at grocery stores, cook in your van a lot? Just cost-wise, were there any spots that you stopped or found along the way that were great?   Guest: We definitely cooked in our van a lot. For periods of that trip, our meals in the van became very simple things like ramen or things like cereal or whatever it may be that didn't involve a lot of cooking or things that could stay fresh for a long period of time. So, we relied on a lot more boxed things or canned goods just because sometimes we didn't know when we were going to have availability to a grocery store. So, we did a lot of camping or a lot of cooking in our van. There was one restaurant in particular that was outside of Denali National Park called Carston's Public House that we really liked, and we recommend that people go check that out. And there's another brewery that we went to in Anchorage, but I'm drawing a blank on the name of it.   Host: So, Anchorage is actually home to quite a few breweries and distilleries, so if craft brews are your thing, you might want to check it out. I'll put a link in the show notes for more.   Host: I know we talked about quite a bit of things. Are there any things you're doing differently to prepare yourself for this next trip now that you've already been there for six weeks?   Guest: That's a good question. Relaxing, yes, relaxing. I was freaked out about the bear situation, truly. And it's not as bad as you would think. People say you have to be more afraid of moose. But I pictured in my mind that there would be bears everywhere you look, and there wasn't. So, relaxing, that's a good answer. Yeah, I mean, just relaxing from the standpoint of knowing that it's not going to be as intense or as extreme as we thought it was going to be. Relaxing and knowing that when you get there, a city like Anchorage is a very big city. It's going to have all of the big box stores that you're used to. It has all the things that you're used to in the lower 48. So, you're not traveling to like a third world country or something like that. You can find the things that you are used to. If you need to get packages or we navigated all of those things while we were in Alaska. And so, relaxing, I think we'll just approach the whole thing with a little more ease, and that'll feel really good. Awesome, that's a good point. Yeah, just kind of relaxing, taking it easy, and then also budgeting. You've been there once. You're preparing more to spend one and a half times what somebody might expect to have to pay if they hadn't gone before.   Host: So great, we can transition to the 3-2-1 Countdown, the final three questions of the podcast. We might have brought up a few things here, but what are three things people are bringing when they're going to Alaska?   Guest: Bug spray or bug protectant as a whole is what we want to recommend. So, bug spray, fly swatter, and bug nets. We're actually getting some of those soon because there are a lot of mosquitoes, and they're huge. Yeah, we'll say it again, the blackout curtains and eye mask. You've got to have some kind of plan for making your rig dark. So, whatever that's going to look like for you, you'll want to think about that, or else you're going to have a really difficult time sleeping, and that will be a challenge. And then, our last thing is binoculars, which the cool people in Alaska call them "binos." And that's so you can see hopefully some wildlife from afar and at a safe distance, right? So, binoculars for sure.   Host: Cool. Did you get to see it all your last time out? I mean, the big... the grizzly bears, the moose, the wolves?   Guest: Yeah, we did not see a grizzly bear in Alaska, which was disappointing. We did see one on our trip back, actually once we got back into the US, in Montana. But otherwise, we saw tons of black bears, we saw quite a bit of moose, we did see wolves. So, we saw a good mix of things but not a grizzly when we were in Alaska. So, hopefully this summer will be different. Really? I don't know, we don't have to hope, a grizzly, maybe from afar through the electric fence, right? Through the binos.   Host: What are two complaints or things people wish they had prepared more for when venturing to Alaska?   Guest: We probably talked about a few of them. Yeah, so we're going to go back to the bugs. That is something that you want to be aware of. They are everywhere. There's nowhere that you can go that you're going to be able to get away from them. The mosquitoes are huge, they are nasty, they are persistent. And so, having tons and tons of bug spray on you, having solutions to try to keep them out of the van is very helpful. But that's just, I think, one of the most common complaints. And if you go on any social media and just look up videos of the mosquitoes in Alaska, you'll see some pretty crazy stuff. But that is something that you are going to want to be aware of. It's worth it, though. I mean, and I think there were days or locations where they were worse or if it was windy, I feel like they weren't out as much. But I remember, I was cutting his hair in the middle of nowhere, and I was getting eaten alive, and thankfully, the haircut wasn't too bad, but the mosquitoes are really distracting and annoying. But bug spray does work, so definitely just bring a lot of that bug spray. And then the second thing is bears, again, for sure. Definitely just think about safety and peace of mind. So, having something like bear spray was something that we had with us at all times. Anytime, you know, if you're parked off the road somewhere and if you've got animals around or dogs, since you do have food in your van that you can't always keep airtight, you just want to always be bear-conscious and animal-conscious in general. So, that's something that I guess could be a sort of complaint or something that at least you'll want to think a lot about and be very conscious of. Hiking in groups is really great, and just talking a lot is good too. Those were some of the tips. So, we would always just say "hi bear" or talk or sing, and that was in the beginning when we were really anxious, I'm talking about myself, I just always talking. But just doing those things helps. And then having the bear spray just helps you feel a little more safe.   Host: How are the roads? I had heard people, they've said if you go to Alaska, have a spare tire, and if you have room, bring a second spare tire. But there's... you said there were two main roads to kind of get through. Were they rough or how did you maneuver that?   Guest: They're not great. So, a spare tire would definitely be a good idea. Also, plan for your windshield taking some pretty serious dents from rocks. We probably picked up ten different dents in our windshield of all different sizes, and one of them led to a pretty big crack in our windshield. So, yes, having a spare tire is a great idea. And not that there's a whole lot that you can do about your windshield, but that's something to just think about and probably going to be a reality as well. So, the roads are not great, especially... there are sections of them that are very, I'm going to call them bouncy. I mean, there's like really big hills. It's a roller coaster, to the point where there's moments where our van was like two wheels would go off the ground, and then you'd slam back down. So, yeah, the roads are not great, so that's something to just be aware of. You will need to at points drive slow, even though you're in the middle of nowhere and there's nothing around. But spare tires are definitely a good idea.   Host: Do you have 4x4?   Guest: No, we don't, and we were fine. I mean, you have to know some of your limitations with that, but there weren't any roads... the main roads getting to and from Alaska, you don't need four-wheel drive. After everything we just mentioned, it's like... you have to know that it's stunning, right? There are bears, there are mosquitoes, there's all this stuff, the roads are terrible. But it goes to show you how epic it is. So, it's worth it.   Host: Yeah, no, there's bears, mosquitoes, the roads, but yet not only did you guys do that, you're going back for another three, four months. Clearly, it's worth it. All right, guys, one last question: what is one thing you cannot leave Alaska without doing?   Guest: The plane ride, for sure. You have to get up in the air and see Denali National Park from a plane. It's stunning. You will not believe your eyes, and highly, highly recommend it. The other thing I'm going to say is go jump in a lake or a river. I think you've got to go out and just experience the nature, and I mean, those are some of the lakes and rivers are about as fresh as it gets up there. So, go jump in one. It's a great experience.   Host: Nice, awesome. And we'll have to have you guys back on after you guys do your six-month or your summer adventure up there, and we'll talk about what you guys did that time. So, yeah, well, great. Guys, thanks again for coming on. One last question, where can our audience find out more about you?   Guest: We are @TheMilesVanLife on Instagram, and I'm @EileenRoseMiles. That's my personal Instagram. And then I am ChadMMiles on Instagram, and I have a podcast that is called "A Level Deeper."   Host: All right, sweet. Everybody go check them out. Chad and Eileen, thanks again.   Guest: Thanks, guys.   Host: Thank you.   Guest: Appreciate you both.

In this episode, we had a chance to sit down with author John Vaillant, who recently published a new book about the 2016 Fort McMurray fires in Northern Alberta. The book, Fire Weather: A True Story from a Hotter World, is an in-depth exploration of the fires, which released in June 2023. We not only spoke about his reporting process in the aftermath of a catastrophic wildfire, but we also touched on some of the book's major themes and how these were, in many cases, paralleled by the 2023 fire season in Canada. We even did some deep diving into the oil and gas industry's role in increasingly catastrophic fire seasons, about climate change and how we keep having unprecedented fire seasons—but our processes and protocols aren't catching up with how extreme conditions and fire behavior have become in some cases. We also highly recommend  Fire Weather for those who haven't read it yet. You can pick it up from my favorite local bookstore, Village Books, here. Timestamps: 06:00 - Introduction08:14 - 2016's Alberta Fire Warning of the Future09:42 - John's Thoughts on the 2023 Fire Season12:28 - The Shifting Baseline for Fire Fighting Efforts16:55 - Weather Conditions Affect How Fire Behaves19:26 - People's Humanity Makes Evacuation Efforts Possible23:40 - Humanizing the Evacuation Process25:01 - Interviewing Evacuees28:18 - This Evacuation Changed Everyone's Lives Forever29:34 - The Oil and Gas Industry Connection to Wildfire31:56 - Humans are a Fire Species35:32 - Society's Wealth Comes From Fire37:38 - Gaps in Conversation Surrounding Wildfires40:11 - We Have to Rethink Our Relationship With Fire42:39 - John's Lessons Learned44:12 - Houses Are Made From Petroleum Products46:49 - Firefighting 90s Style Will Not Help Us48:40 - No Precedent for Recent Fire Events51:40 - This Requires a Nuanced Conversation53:45 - Outro

Dr. Jessica Haines is a wildlife scientist, professor at MacEwan University in Northern Alberta and a hunter. Jessica shares talks about how being a scientist helps her as a hunter and vice versa as well as how her students and co-workers react to her being a hunter. Jess talks about the peacefulness of hunting, reading the subtle clues of nature, hunting with dogs and mentoring students who are interested in hunting. Jess is truly an inspirational leader-hunter in Canada's post-secondary education system.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join us for this months livestream with world renowned Instagram Reel expert OWEN LUSH. Hang out and learn all about Owen Lush, living in Northern Alberta, winter living, motorcycle riding, upcoming trips, and so much more! Follow him on IG: owenlush_adv ________________________________________________________ LIVE from the LOONEY BIN is the official livestream of Motorcycles and Pancakes. ________________________________________________________ Follow all things Motorcycles and Pancakes on Instagram and YouTube. Like, subscribe, comment, share.... like seriously! Tell your friends. ________________________________________________________ For guest recommendations, please email motorcyclesandpancakes@gmail.com Make sure the Subject line is Guest Recommendation. ________________________________________________________ Motorcycles and Pancakes and Motorcycles and PODcakes supports Men's Mental Health. Men, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!! Our mental health is so fragile and can take a dark turn extremely quick. If you are or someone you know is struggling with depression and/or suicidal thoughts, asking for help is not a sign of weakness. It is actually an absolute sign of strength. You are worth this life and mean a lot to those who love you. Plese, find help and start living once again. In the United States, dial 988 for the Suicide Prevention Hotline OR dial 911 Websites www.headsupguys.org www.betterhelp.com *Motorcycles and Pancakes and Motorcycles and PODcakes is not affiliated in anyway with HeadsUpGuys or Betterhelp. I just want you to be happy and live! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This has been a Moto-Cakes Media production. All Rights Reserved 2023

In this episode, your host Amy Milne gets real with Jen Garden, Chapter Director for Northern Alberta at Make-A-Wish Canada. Jen has been in the non-profit sector for almost 15 years and her passion for fundraising and building relationships is contagious. Amy and Jen first met in person pre-pandemic at Camp Beyond, a one-of-a-kind conference for non-profit event pros. Jen is a big believer in finding opportunities for personal development which is why she obtained her CFRE Certification in 2021 and is currently working on her Masters in Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership. Jen kicks things off by walking us through her career journey with Make-A-Wish Canada for which she is so grateful. From there, her and Amy dive right into why all non-profits organizations should be creating partnerships with other charities. They talk about how to get the conversation started, the keys to having a successful partnership, and why the benefits outweigh the challenges. Jen gives us some real life examples of Make-A-Wish partnerships - be prepared for a few moments that will tug at your heart strings! Make sure you stick around to the end to hear about why Amy likes to give out small rubber ducks to her colleagues - you don't want to miss it!Want to reach out to Jen to chat further? You can find her on LinkedIn or email her at jen.garden@makeawish.ca.”All we can do is change the world.” – Jen GardenConnect with us:Beyond Fundraising Inc: https://www.startingbeyond.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-milne-8946791/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/milneamyr/https://www.instagram.com/startbeyond/

Father of 2, married for 30+ years and Northern Alberta businessman. He ran as an independent candidate in the 2022 Alberta election for the riding of Camrose garnering 8.5% of the vote. We discuss Alberta today and where he believes things are going off track.  Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast

Wood Buffalo is sweeping epic that tells the tale of an oil sands region in Northern Alberta over the several centuries. The new Theatre New Brunswick play is coming to Saint John and St. Andrews this week. Playwright Len Falkenstein speaks with host Julia Wright about the story and where it came from.

"Turnover and mergers are one of the biggest disruptions in companies. So when you have that factored in, if you have someone who leaves the company, then everything that they've ever done, that human brain of knowledge as well and experience within that company is gone." In this episode, I'm in conversation with Wendy Hamelin, the CEO of Astraea Energy, an advisory firm in the area of high performance organizations. Wendy notes how there is a significant loss of organizational know how when we adopt new technologies that displace human capability (think of how the lowly calculator has eroded our ability to do math by hand). Extend this to an organization scale, as we are now doing with tools like AI, and our organizations are at some risk.  "I use an iPhone, for example, an iPhone is the actual device itself. And then we add our apps to our device. So the hierarchy of information and device software, if we add a hack, or add a hacked app to our iPhone, then that violates the entire phone." Wendy Hamelin is the President and CEO of Astraea Energy, an advisory firm founded in 2014 to provide consulting and advisory service to oil and energy projects in Northern Alberta. Wendy provides safety training and performance improvement consulting services. "If we're onboarding a contractor, we need to remember to off board every single part of that contractor when they're completed." USEFUL LINKS LinkedIn profiles (personal, business):  Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wendyhamelin Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/astraea-energy-inc/ Facebook pages: https://www.facebook.com/astraeaenergy Website:   http://www.astraeaenergy.com/  

It’s located at the gateway to Northern Alberta, Canada—the city of Edmonton. And it’s been billed as Canada’s longest running volunteer-run jazz club, having first started in 1957. This episode explores its history, and features recordings by some of the great artists who have played there. Along with interviews with Marc Vasey, Todd Crawshaw, and…Continue reading Episode 251: The Yardbird Suite Jazz Club, Part 1

Jeff and Elliotte dive into the latest Edmonton Oilers news, including an injury to Connor McDavid and an interesting comment from Evander Kane (00:21). They discuss Rasmus Andersson and the Flames appealing his suspension for charging Patrik Laine (15:43). The Detroit Red Wings come under the spotlight after a big weekend for Alex DeBrincat. What can we make out of the direction of their franchise (25:00)? Next up is a discussion on the Calder Trophy race and the impressive Leo Carlsson in Anaheim plus Elliotte adds to his interview with Elias Pettersson that was released over the weekend (51:00).  They finish up the podcast talking about the Toronto Maple Leafs' and their comeback over the weekend (1:08).Jeff and Elliotte answer your questions in the Montana's Thought Line (55:00).Email the podcast at 32thoughts@sportsnet.ca or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and Jordan McRae and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Dallas Alexander is taking shots at the country music scene by weaving his Métis roots with stories amassed over a decade plus career serving in a tier one special operations unit. Dallas hails from a rough-and-tumble backwoods upbringing on the Fishing Lake Métis Settlement in Northern Alberta. He's serving up a unique sound for today's listeners, and country lovers are in for a gritty-outlaw vibe. Recently, breaking international news with the story of his team's longest Sniper kill shot in military history, which currently holds the world record. A veteran now, and his aim is focused on realizing a lifelong passion: music. @iamdallasalexander Watch on YouTube: https://bit.ly/3opNURn  PATREON: patreon.com/brassandunity  - - - - - - - - - - - - SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS H.V.M.N - 20% off with code BRASS20 - https://hvmn.com/pages/home Mindful Meds - 15% off with code BRASS - https://mindfulmeds.io Brass & Unity - 20% off with code UNITY - http://brassandunity.com  Three Horses Hat Co - 15% off with code BRASS - ⁠https://threehorseshatco.com/⁠ Combat Flip Flops - 25% off with code UNITY - https://combatflipflops.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - SHOP B&U Jewelry & Eyewear: https://brassandunity.com  - - - - - - - - - - - - - Follow #brassandunity - - - - - - - - - - - - - CHARITY Honour House - https://www.honourhouse.ca Vet Solutions - https://vetsolutions.org  Heroic Hearts - https://www.heroicheartsproject.org Warrior Angels Foundation - https://warriorangelsfoundation.org All Secure Foundation - http://allsecurefoundation.org Defenders of Freedom - http://defendersoffreedom.us The Boot Campaign - https://bootcampaign.org The Overwatch Foundation  - http://overwatchfoundationusa.org

On today's show: a pilot has died fighting a wildfire in Northern Alberta. We hear what can be done to support frontline crews that are being pushed to the limit; have you noticed more pink in your life lately? We find out how Barbie-mania has taken over Calgary; we tell you about a bullriding event happening tonight on the shores of Chestermere Lake.

Diane Quartly is a Psychic Medium who has done personal readings for hundreds of clients, has hosted numerous group readings and facilitates classes for both adults and children. Diane lives and works with her husband in Northern Alberta and is the proud mother of three boys. You can learn more about Diane at www.dianequartly.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Soul medicine is about connection. Connection to yourself. Connection to the greater sense of purpose or meaning or even connection to the divine. It is about finding the perspective and not getting stuck in the details of getting it right or wrong. And connection to your heart.Dr. Irina Mihaescu is an award-winning physician advocate and unapologetic mystic enthusiast and a board certified psychiatrist. As a trauma-informed leadership facilitator, sought-after expert and educator, and founder of the Centre for Physician Wellness, she helps empathetic physicians access soul medicine to improve their stamina and wellbeing. She's a blanket-loving introvert and unbusy mother of three, who works predominantly from clear, cold Northern Alberta.Practicing Psychiatrist - Mindfulness teacher & body psychology practitionerhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/1064224207406431/user/586475062Her bio is at the bottom of this link:https://www.centrephysicianwellness.com/courses/mindfulness101Link Tree for her projects:https://linktr.ee/CPW?fbclid=IwAR3BwThDkqSJXfkF5G0ImmxPa4QoQ4oyP8IaBExgu5sz_Em7LKnNbBnDcCw

On today's episode of Locked on NHL, Dane and Brett preview the second-round matchups in the western conference as both series' have tons of storylines heading into Round Two! First, the Seattle Kraken look to continue their historic run as they faceoff against the Playoff's leading scorer Roope Hintz and the Dallas Stars. And, the best player in the world Connor McDavid faces off against Jack Eichel and the Vegas Golden Knights in a battle of the top-two picks from 2015! And finally, while Northern Alberta celebrates Playoff Hockey, the neighbours to the south, Calgary are changing the tune behind the bench, as Darryl Sutter was relieved of his duties on Monday morning; what is the state of the Calgary Flames and what can they do to right the ship going forward? All that and so much more on today's episode of Locked on NHL!Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!GametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNHL for $20 off your first purchase.ebay MotorsFor parts that fit, head to eBay Motors and look for the green check. Stay in the game with eBay Guaranteed Fit. eBay Motors dot com. Let's ride. eBay Guaranteed Fit only available to US customers. Eligible items only. Exclusions apply.Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKEDON15,” and you'll get 15% off your next order.Athletic GreensTo make it easy, Athletic Greens is going to give you a FREE 1 year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athleticgreens.com/NHLNETWORKFanDuelMake Every Moment More. Don't miss the chance to get your No Sweat First Bet up to ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS in Bonus Bets when you go FanDuel.com/LOCKEDON.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's episode of Locked on NHL, Dane and Brett preview the second-round matchups in the western conference as both series' have tons of storylines heading into Round Two! First, the Seattle Kraken look to continue their historic run as they faceoff against the Playoff's leading scorer Roope Hintz and the Dallas Stars. And, the best player in the world Connor McDavid faces off against Jack Eichel and the Vegas Golden Knights in a battle of the top-two picks from 2015! And finally, while Northern Alberta celebrates Playoff Hockey, the neighbours to the south, Calgary are changing the tune behind the bench, as Darryl Sutter was relieved of his duties on Monday morning; what is the state of the Calgary Flames and what can they do to right the ship going forward? All that and so much more on today's episode of Locked on NHL! Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors! Gametime Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNHL for $20 off your first purchase. ebay Motors For parts that fit, head to eBay Motors and look for the green check. Stay in the game with eBay Guaranteed Fit. eBay Motors dot com. Let's ride. eBay Guaranteed Fit only available to US customers. Eligible items only. Exclusions apply. Built Bar Built Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKEDON15,” and you'll get 15% off your next order. Athletic Greens To make it easy, Athletic Greens is going to give you a FREE 1 year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athleticgreens.com/NHLNETWORK FanDuel Make Every Moment More. Don't miss the chance to get your No Sweat First Bet up to ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS in Bonus Bets when you go FanDuel.com/LOCKEDON. FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every so often, we are fortunate to be able to meet people who truly live their life they way many wish they would. For many years I have been awe-struck with the athletes who compete in the PBR (Professional Bull Riders). Their level of athleticism is only matched by their level of courageousness. The idea of riding an animal that is larger and heavier than the average pick-up truck on the highway is beyond comprehension. Years ago, I was fortunate to experience the PBR live. During this experience I had the opportunity to stand 10 feet away from one of the most menacing creatures I have ever witnessed. This beautiful animal weighed more than 1500 pounds, and had a muscle structure that looked as if it were a Marvel Comic creature. It was at that moment that I realized what elite athletes Professional Bull riders must be. The idea of riding an animal with that much power, anger and rage, for 8 seconds, cannot be described with mere words alone. By realizing the fact that athletes who compete on the PBR can die every time they ride, makes this sport more than extreme. Curtis Anderson was one of these incredibly brave and extreme athletes. Curtis was raised in Northern Alberta, Canada on a farm where he attributes the grown and development of his intense work ethic. It would be this sense of work ethic that would help him regain his life. In 2002, while competing in the World's 5th Largest PBR event, the Ponoka Stampede, Curtis Anderson's would embark upon the toughest ride of his life. While riding the bull "Real Handy", Curtis would sustain 2 traumatic brain injuries on one ride. These major concussions would change his life forever. The injuries Curtis sustained caused him to have be medically induced into a coma to help relieve the pressure in his brain. Since his departure from the University of Alberta hospital, Curtis began a rehabilitation process that would last almost 2 decades. The up-hill battles he has had to face and overcome would make many quit and find refuge in the realization that things will never be the same. Fortunately for Curtis, his work ethic and mindset to always push forward and push beyond the boundaries placed before him - caused him to never accept the limits placed upon him. Curtis Anderson has taken his injury and created a life line for so many athletes. Today he shares his story, as well as insight regarding TBI's (Traumatic Brain Injuries), and what it means to live life "Resiliently" to youth/adolescents, College/University students, as well as businesses and corporations. When he is not sharing his story, and lifting up others as they attempt to overcome the limits placed upon them as a result of a TBI, Curtis is working on the Canadian Trail Ride - a non-profit event that tries to raise funds and awareness for those suffering from a TBI. It is because he has chosen to live a life under the motto of "Never Give Up ... Don't EVER Give Up" ... This is not just a saying for Curtis. This is how he has chosen to live his life - every day. It is this same message that he shares with his others. If you are looking for a motivation speaker who can provide a powerful message of what it means to be resilient - contact Curtis Anderson. Motivational Speaker Bio https://www.linkedin.com/in/curtis-anderson-6804b2ab/?originalSubdomain=ca Courage Canada - Trail Ride https://cowboycountrymagazine.com/2022/06/curtis-anderson/ Courage Canada - Trail Ride Videos YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqOUqNTh8W0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOAoo4Hvklc --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/headset-sports/support

A new set of mountain monsters is exactly what we need! Enjoy these allegedly true horror stories about 5 HORRIFYING Things Seen in the Mountains. Follow and review Tales from the Break Room on Spotify and Apple Podcasts! https://pod.link/1621075170 Join EERIECAST PLUS to unlock ad-free episodes and support this show! (Will still contain some host-read sponsorships) https://www.eeriecast.com/plus SCARY STORIES TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 INTRO 1:07 The Mananggal from Synonymous 12:23 Ghost in an Alaskan Home from shaxhs111 19:06 My Grandfather Visited Me from Anonymous 23:04 Watch Dog from The Tear Man 44:20 Possible Wendigo in Northern Alberta from Dyliodus CREDITS: Background music for these stories by: Dark Music LINKS:  Join my DISCORD: https://discord.gg/5Wj9RqTR3w Follow us on Spotify! https://open.spotify.com/show/3mNZyXkaJPLwUwcjkz6Pv2 Follow and Review us on iTunes! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/darkness-prevails-podcast-true-horror-stories/id1152248491   Submit Your Story Here: https://www.darkstories.org/ Get Darkness Prevails Podcast Merchandise! https://teespring.com/stores/darknessprevails Subscribe on YouTube for More Stories! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh_VbMnoL4nuxX_3HYanJbA?sub_confirmation=1 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Six years ago, the wildfire known as "The Beast" devastated Northern Alberta, forcing the evacuations of 88,000 people in the area around Fort McMurray. At the time, Wood Buffalo Brewing & Distilling had to leave behind a pallet of peated malt to escape the fire, but firefighters managed to save both the distillery and the malt, which had absorbed a lot of smoke from the fire. The distillery pre-sold bottles of "The Beast" whisky made from that malt to raise more than $100,000 for local charities in the months following the fire, and while the distillery later closed its doors, distillers Bryce Parsons and Spike Baker returned to Fort McMurray this weekend to deliver on the promise made six years ago. We'll catch up with them on this week's WhiskyCast In-Depth.  

I recorded this podcast while driving home from Northern Alberta. I spent a week sitting in treestands at -20c trying to kill a buck with my bow. I wasn't successful but I learned a ton and I go over my takeaways from the hunt and my thoughts about all the gear I used.   Jay Nichol jay@mindfulhunter.com https://www.mindfulhunter.com/   Merch https://www.mindfulhunter.com/shop   Free Backcountry Nutrition Guide https://www.mindfulhunter.com/tools   Newsletter https://www.mindfulhunter.com/contact   IG https://www.instagram.com/mindful_hunter/   Podcast https://www.mindfulhunter.com/podcast

This week we welcome celebrated poet Billy-Ray Belcourt to discuss his innovative and moving debut novel A Minor Chorus. In the stark expanse of Northern Alberta, a queer Indigenous doctoral student steps away from his dissertation to write a novel, informed by a series of poignant encounters: a heart-to-heart with fellow doctoral student River over the mounting pressure placed on marginalized scholars; a meeting with Michael, a closeted man from his hometown whose vulnerability and loneliness punctuate the realities of queer life on the fringe. Woven throughout these conversations are memories of Jack, a cousin caught in the cycle of police violence, drugs, and survival. Jack's life parallels the narrator's own; the possibilities of escape and imprisonment are left to chance with colonialism stacking the odds. A Minor Chorus introduces a dazzling new literary voice whose vision and fearlessness shine much-needed light on the realities of Indigenous survival.Buy A Minor Chorus: https://www.shakespeareandcompany.com/product/7312862/a-minor-chorus-a-novel*SUBSCRIBE NOW FOR BONUS EPISODESLooking for Friends of Shakespeare and Company read Ulysses? https://podfollow.com/sandcoulyssesIf you want to spend even more time at Shakespeare and Company, you can now subscribe for regular archive episodes and access to complete chapters of Friends of Shakespeare and Company read Ulysses.Subscribe on Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/sandcoSubscribe on Apple Podcasts here: https://podcasts.apple.com/fr/podcast/shakespeare-and-company-writers-books-and-paris/id1040121937?l=enAll money raised goes to supporting “Friends of Shakespeare and Company” the bookshop's non-profit, created to fund our noncommercial activities—from the upstairs reading library, to the writers-in-residence program, to our charitable collaborations, and our free events.*Billy-Ray Belcourt is a writer and academic from the Driftpile Cree Nation. He is an Assistant Professor in the School of Creative Writing at the University of British Columbia. He is the author of four books: This Wound is a World, NDN Coping Mechanisms: Notes from the Field, A History of My Brief Body, and A Minor Chorus.Adam Biles is Literary Director at Shakespeare and Company. Buy a signed copy of his novel Feeding Time here: https://www.shakespeareandcompany.com/product/7209940/biles-adam-feeding-timeListen to Alex Freiman's Play It Gentle here: https://open.spotify.com/album/4gfkDcG32HYlXnBqI0xgQX?si=mf0Vw-kuRS-ai15aL9kLNA&dl_branch=1 Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the stark expanse of Northern Alberta, a queer Indigenous doctoral student steps away from his dissertation to write a novel, informed by a series of poignant encounters: a heart-to-heart with fellow doctoral student River over the mounting pressure placed on marginalized scholars; a meeting with Michael, a closeted man from his hometown whose vulnerability and loneliness punctuate the realities of queer life on the fringe. Woven throughout these conversations are memories of Jack, a cousin caught in the cycle of police violence, drugs, and survival. Jack's life parallels the narrator's own; the possibilities of escape and imprisonment are left to chance with colonialism stacking the odds. A Minor Chorus, Billy-Ray Belcourt's debut novel, introduces a dazzling new literary voice whose vision and fearlessness shine much-needed light on the realities of Indigenous survival.   The event is moderated by Nat Freeman, recorded live on our Crowdcast channel on October 13, 2022. _______________________________________________   Produced by Nat Freeman, Lance Morgan, & Michael Kowaleski. Theme: "I Love All My Friends," an unreleased demo by Fragile Gang. Visit https://www.skylightbooks.com/event for future offerings from the Skylight Books Events team.

Ryan Smyth discusses the honour of joining the Oilers Hall of Fame and looks back at his storied career and his relationship with the fans in Northern Alberta. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sheila Botting is Principal and President, Americas Professional Services at Avison Young that is an Umbrella for the Different Groups of Consulting, Valuation and Project Management. In this episode we talked about: Changes in the Commercial Real Estate Market Office from the Investor's Perspective Avison Young's Vitality Index Reducing Space  Occupiers Liabilities Tenant Inducement Complex Sheila's Returning to Office Forecast  Hybrid Model Workplace Strategy Transcription: Jesse (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name's Jessica galley. And on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time. Ladies and gentlemen, my name's Jesse Regal, and you're listening to working capital the real estate podcast. My special returning guest today is Sheila botting. Sheila is the principal and president America's professional services at Avis and young.   That is the umbrella for the different groups of consulting valuation and project management. Sheila has a, has had a number of different roles in the commercial real estate space spanning from her roles in executive management at Deloitte Kushman and Wakefield and Royal LaPage. Sheila, how you doing today?   Sheila (54s): I'm great. Jessie, how are you doing?   Jesse (57s): Doing fantastic. So the conversation today, I thought it was topical because I think the last time we spoke was the beginning of 2021. And so much has changed in the office and commercial real estate market in general. And I thought it would be great to have you back on to discuss those aspects and have the, and how they have changed. And I know that you have, you know, made these type of discussions and, and presentations with various outlets, wall street, journal, Harvard business review. So I thought you could do the same for us here.   Sheila (1m 29s): Oh, terrific. Thanks so much. So it's all about return to office. You can tell my back background. I have returned to the office today and, you know, two to three days a week, along with everybody else across north America around the globe. And I think that for, for all of us, it's sorting through how do we deal with return to office? What does it look like? What are the key pieces? How do we make it work for our businesses for us personally? How do we embrace this so that it's, you know, dynamic for people and way forward, what we've learned from all of this is it's all changed.   It's not going back, whatever back was, we're not in the nine to five work environment that we once were. Now, it's all about flexibility. It's about building our ecosystem. It's about navigating what it is that we need to do and how we do it. It's understanding, you know, different roles that people have and making sure that they've got the right tools, technology and physical spaces in order to deliver. I thought what I would do today in talking is, is I know you know about this, but to share with all of your audience, something called the vitality index that Avis and young uses across north America.   In fact, the globe, what we do is we measure cell phone data usage in downtown for 26 north American city. So what I thought I'd do is first level set on where are we today? You know, in September, 2022, where have we come from from March, 2020? And what does that return office look like? So I'm gonna share my screen with you. So Jesse Avis and young has something called the vitality index. And what we do is we measure the return to downtown.   So I'm showing this on the screen, really what we're doing from March 2nd, 2020 through to this most recent examples, August 29th, 2022, we measure return to downtown. So we've got mobility data from, you know, various locations, typically eight to 12 locations downtown in the major north American cities, in fact, 26 north American cities. And we see where it is relative to before the pandemic. So you can see on the list, we've got the greens, our Canada, the blues are the United States.   So at the top of our list in Canada, Edmonton, which is in Northern Alberta is down 43.8% from before the pandemic started in March 2nd, 2020. That means that the foot traffic in downtown Edmonton is still down 44% on one end of the spectrum. And that's the best city in north America going all the way to the other extreme. Again, another Canadian city, Ottawa is down 80% from when the pandemic started.   So you think about some of the larger us cities, you know, Boston is down 43.8%. New York is still down 50% Austin down, 52% Chicago down almost 56% east bay, Oakland down 56, San Francisco down 57 and half percent Calgary down 58, Montreal down 59. And, and so on across the board, you know, Washington down almost 63%.   So when you start looking at the data, you realize that as much as people talk about return to office, we have not returned to office, you know, knock your socks off. If somebody says, things are going back to normal. What this is largely saying is that our entire world is not returned. The chart on the right here really shows what that looks like across the board. And it shows that in fact, we have not returned to normal and it looks like in my opinion, it's not returning to whatever we define as normal, anytime soon, at the same time, we can also look at various industry sectors.   So across this bit, if you were to look at say the technology industry, perhaps, you know, faring worse off than finance or some of the other sectors, so absolutely fascinating when you start peeling away the layers of the onion. So I wanted to start with this whole perspective in terms of what does return look like, who is returning, how does it all play out? And the message across the board is right across north America. The 26 cities that we're looking at at best were down, you know, over 43% from before the pandemic.   Yep. So then next natural question is what does that mean for employees and occupiers? The people that, you know, lease space in various markets, that's one whole bundle. Another whole bundle would be the investors and asset managers. What do we do to get people to come downtown? And a third part would be all of the businesses and the governments that are looking at, you know, the downtown business association that thrive on return.   And so, because of course the vibrancy of our downtowns are very core to the fabric of our north American economy. What does that look like? So we can, you know, dive into each one of those segments to understand how to unpack it and what are the various components so that we can think about the future and think about how do we manage our businesses? How do we manage our assets and how do we manage our downtowns   Jesse (6m 59s): When it comes to the vitality index, Sheila, in terms of the, the actual use of the, the cell phone data. I know that, you know, working with Avis and young, we talk about this a lot, but for those that, that kind of wanna understand the cellphone data in a downtown area, it's kind of used as a, as a proxy for a full office building. Is that, do I have that right in terms of how that, how that data is used or, or what it's used to represent?   Sheila (7m 26s): Yeah. So what we'll do is we'll, we'll tag, you know, geo spaces in downtown's various cities, eight to 12 different locations, and we'll, we'll measure the pings on the cell phone data in those locations. So pick a, you know, a downtown financial core office building or a downtown transit hub. In some cases, our clients have us look at hotels and, or even life sciences buildings out in the suburbs. So we can really geofence any type of location for this particular application.   It's been the downtowns of these north American cities that we update, you know, once every two weeks at the beginning, we were doing it every week saying everybody thought, year one, Hey, we're going back. We're going back. Well, it's not happening anytime soon. And so what the data shows us, is it not yet returned to downtown? Yeah. So what does that mean? So from the occupy perspective, you know, the company or the government organization or the business, that's thinking about their space, they think how much space do I need if it's sitting there empty, pick your north American city, because even before the pandemic space was 50% of the time.   So before the pandemic, when we did utilization studies, you know, bums and seats analysis across north American cities, the average seat was 50% of the time. And so that didn't, if you were in some remote location in the middle of the nowhere or downtown New York or Toronto, the same thing would be held true. And that's because the way we work has changed, we're no longer processing paper from the left to the right of our desk. Rather we're engaging, collaborating, doing things in many different ways. And so, because of that, even before the pandemic, people were rethinking how they would devise their workspace.   The pandemic has simply accelerated that overall trend and is forcing us to consider what is the role of the office? What is it we want to be? Are we going create row and farms? Are we going to create a downtown campus for a downtown lab or in a downtown engagement experience, a hospitality experience for our people. And that's really what the pivot is toward is creating these immersive experiences for our people, so that when they do get together, it's easy for them to collaborate, to engage and to solve problems together.   It's not about processing paper off to the right of your desk. Although you could say it's about being on zoom teams, but nonetheless, it's not about, you know, the old ways of working. And so the value proposition that companies are making for their people is where the pivot is. So on one side of the spectrum, we're saying we can get rid of a chunk of our individual workspaces because it becomes about collaboration and teaming. People like me. I can, you know, do most of my heads down work when I'm sitting quietly on my own, away from everybody, as opposed out, you know, bullpen kind of environment.   So you recalibrate how you work. You still get people choice. So, you know, if you, if you need to go to a bullpen or you need to go to the officer, so places to go, but the rotation is toward collaborative spaces. And so with that pivot on space, suddenly you need less space. So first generation in these types of evolutions typically involve anywhere from a 20 to 30% reduction space. Assuming you've got the same employee population, second generation could be as much as 50% reduction in space.   We've had clients reducing their space by 50% through this whole pandemic. And they're saying, you know, we're, we're quite fine. Having people work from home 1, 2, 3 days a week, that's, that's quite fine for us. And so the question comes, how do you entice your people come back to the office because in the war for talent, it's all about providing people flexibility to make choices with how and where they want work, but equally create an incredible environment that they want come back downtown. And they engage with their colleagues and employees to, you know, get their projects and work completed.   So that's literally what the entire market is looking for today. At least the folks that we're dealing with cross all sectors.   Jesse (11m 43s): Jill, I, I have a question on the, so on the work that you were doing, you, you mentioned the utilization studies you've done in the past. And as we know, this predated the pandemic, a lot of companies, they, they operate at, you know, 50, 60, 70% depending on their, on the industry, the company and location, but the, the, excuse me, the studies that you did, where you had companies actually go and reduce space, is that type of reduction, the same, the philosophy, the same as it would be now for reducing space based on low utilization, as opposed to reducing space based on, you know, what we've learned of how we can work differently in the last 12 months, or they are, they separate kind of exercises.   Sheila (12m 27s): I would say all of the above, literally it's a bit of everything. So I think before the pandemic, there were those early adopters, you know, I would suggest that it started originally out of Australia with many of the banks there that went to hot desking, unassigned sitting models. And then, you know, the accounting, big consulting firms went to that model. As many of their people were out in clients, offices. And now it's moved on to financial institutions and public sector organizations, GSA out of Washington embraced government of Canada has embraced this city of Toronto province of Ontario.   So this is literally wide swept across the markets. And that started before the pandemic, all of that was before the pandemic. And now what I see happening is that simply accelerating across all sectors. Now the real question is how much, or how little and what is the right fit. So what might be the right fit for example, law firm, which is very paper intensive to a consulting firm or a financial institution, very different solutions, depending on the industry sector.   And more importantly, the, the type of work that the individual employee and our teams would do. So that's really what we're navigating right now, making sure that the specific solutions for that client group and that industry sector, you know, absolutely apply.   Jesse (13m 48s): Got it. So that was the, so with the workplace workplace, we've talked about the occupy piece here and there a couple other components.   Sheila (13m 58s): So you know, the other components on the occupy, it's about the war for talent. It's about making the right kind of space for your people and, and what resonates across the different generations. And so it's not one size fits all by any, by any stretch of the imagination. You know, you, you really have to think about the different populations, whether it's the veterans, the boomers, millennials, gen X, gen Z, what, what does that entire group need?   So that's a generational distinction. Then you have the whole style of working. So if I'm, for example, if I'm a loud boisterous person, I need to be around. A lot of people I'll have one way that I like to work. Versus if I'm a quiet individual that needs to have walls around me to work, that's a completely different style. And so there's a whole neuroscience attached to understanding those different work styles and then designing appropriate workspaces. And so I think that particular topic has been hyper influenced through the, if I'm working office like that, right?   I like that. Versus if I'm a Garys, outgoing person, you stick me in a quiet place at home, I'm going outta my mind. And so trying to understand those differences become everything. So that's one whole science that's evolving relative to different work stuff. So in some organizations picking engineering firm or law firm where you have many different types of personnel that has one evolution versus our firm, which is brokerage where everybody's a lot more gregarious. So again, very different fits in the marketplace, understanding that, and then quantifying the other big question in the design lies around assigned seating versus unassigned seating.   So if you have population that's hybrid and you're saying, oh, we should have them into work two, three, maybe four days a week. And oh, by the way, while they're in, they're collaborating with others, they're going out to Starbucks, they're meeting in different sessions, then you don't necessarily need to sign seating for those people, right. They can move around based on their schedules for the day. So if I come in in the morning, I need to do some emails versus collaborate with colleagues on projects versus, you know, go to meetings to talk about various topics.   I don't need my assigned seat through the entire day. And that's where the 50% vacancy occurred before the pandemic. So again, that's whole other iteration about the unassigned seating in order to be successful, you need tremendous change management programs. So you could argue the entire world is going through the largest change management program right now, because think about you, you're sitting in your remote office right now, and you're saying quite happy here. You know, I do this and, and give up assigned, sitting downtown and only come downtown.   When I need to, like any day of the week, I have flexibility. I can go my vacation property to work on Fridays if whatever the may be. So that flexibility becomes really crucial in the work for other key components come, you know, I've talked about design, very flexible design, flexible use of space, hot desking, and assigned seating amenities are huge, both within the physical space, over rotation, on hospitality, food, coffee, the quality of coffee in your space becomes everything.   Putting apples out for wellness for the property owners, making sure that you've got an abundance of services and amenities for the employees. So, so that it helps their occupy and the work for talent. And then of course, ESG environmental, social, and governance considerations, making sure that those are all addressed, whether it's well certified or least certified, those become other key anchors for the space.   Jesse (17m 51s): So, so when you talk, when you move on to the, that piece there, where you have investors or asset managers, I mean, it's the, the other side of the, of the same coin. How are you, you know, what is the recommendation or what do you see changing in that side of, of our world and, and what they're thinking about that might be different than the, the occupy side.   Sheila (18m 13s): So it's about taking a sterile office building, right? Think about the old prestigious, even think of, you know, suits the, the great TV show, right? And you think about these wonderful, beautiful marble, you know, marble sterile office buildings. So then you say, how do you take that and inject a hospitality or a hotel like personality, that space, of course, we can do that in the day of the week, throw a coffee shop in the lobby, animate with retail, create events, pizza days, and suddenly you take your lobbies and your big open spaces and you activate them.   So that they're really intriguing for people to be in whether they're inside the lobby walls or outside in the green spaces around the office building. So that's one massive opportunity. So you're managing the asset, but you're also activating the asset at the same time. Some other opportunities lie around, you know, bicycle storage in the base, in the basement, putting incredible retail in whether it's a coffee store, whether it's a fitness center, whether it's a daycare and many other retail amenities in this space, also thinking about, you know, common stairwells right now based building stairwells that are concrete, you know, not terribly nice in many buildings.   Well, what would happen if you painted them, animated them and did some exercise kinda routine running up and down staircases. So it's about taking core asset and doing really cool things with it to make people, you know, want to be there. It's about surprise and delight. And again, so it's, it's turning your asset on its heels to, to operate more like a hotel or, or a hospitality opportunity.   Jesse (19m 52s): Now this, this plays into other roles in real estate transit being one of them. What we've seen with tenants that we've worked with is that really good inviting office space that's well located, has fared not surprisingly much better than, than other asset class on different transit roads that might not be in the path of progression or just connectivity. What are you seeing on the transit front? Is, is that a theme that's, that's persisting through, through the pandemic and, and to now?   Sheila (20m 22s): Oh, absolutely. So it's funny Northwestern university asked me to be involved in workplace because everybody's, so it's specifically on the transportation front, because everybody is so excited about how workplace is influencing the return to downtown transit. Are we using subways and commuter trains? What does that look like? You know, before the pandemic, there were gazillions of, of dollars put into infrastructure investment. Now, suddenly if people aren't using them to the same extent, so you could probably take the vitality index and apply that to a trans situation.   So there's a, a very real example. One of the interesting trends that we found through the vitality index in New York, we actually monitored it on hour by hour basis. And we found that it was less busy during the office Workday, more busy on nights and weekends. So everybody was using transit to go to the theater, to go to restaurants, downtown or weekend events. So the tourism component is alive and well is what we're learning.   It's the office part that is really the challenge. And so on the transit front, I think that's just a sense of, of time and return and population growth. And I think it will take a while for it to return. If you're looking at the vitality index is one of the indicators.   Jesse (21m 46s): So on the, on the office, and, you know, we were talking a little bit before the show here and in industrial multi-res, you know, real estate, you always say is a very local thing, but you could almost make some pretty sweeping claims of how well multi-family industrial has done over the last two years. Office has been that question, mark. And I was speaking to the CIO of, of crowd street, Ian for Mely last week. And we were talking about this. He called it the tenant inducement complex in that we've gotten so large in the amounts of tenant allowance, tenants, inducements for build outs.   And it seems like we're ripping down stuff that we just put in five years ago, where there's this discussion of somehow commoditizing office space in the way that we haven't seen it in the office sector. So that it's more of a plug and play. It's not, you know, every three years or five years that you're ripping out hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of, of build out. What's, what's your take on that? I'd love to get your thoughts.   Sheila (22m 47s): So, yes, of course, because before the pandemic, people were creating cube farms or creating rows and rows and rows of, or warehouses of workers, and that's not what we need, we didn't need it, then we certainly don't need it now. And so now, you know, if you were to, you know, if you watch any of the, the, you know, shows on WeWork and that whole story, but that's the animated environment that everybody wants. So yes, you can create that. And so we have course have a whole flu office practice that thinks about that space, where as a tenant, I can go lease that kind of space.   And I don't have to worry about the leasehold improvements. I can just move into it. Right? And so if you're a, you know, a mid-sized tenant that becomes a really viable solution for you, because you can scale up or scale down based on whatever your requirements are, and you don't need to worry about building space out and all the rest of it. If you're a larger, whether it's a bank or a law firm or a consulting firm, that is your brand, right? Your brand is your space. And so you wanna put your colors and image and reputation around all of that. So again, it depends on what you need, but the movement toward engaged creative spaces absolutely is here to stay.   Jesse (24m 2s): So   Sheila (24m 2s): Gone are the cubes.   Jesse (24m 4s): It's funny, you mentioned WeWork, cuz it was in that discussion. Speaking about Adam, Adam, Newman's new venture with flow. And I think it was 350 million raise for that. And trying to take that to a multi-family, you know, do that the same thing close to the same thing that was done for rework, but for, for residential or multi residential. So for this whole, you know, aspect of workplace strategy coming back to work is, you know, when are we going back to quotations normal? It seems like those, those are just, you know, terms that people have thrown around that when we're really looking at office and the future of, of workplace, it it's that it's not gonna be an either or it sounds like it's going to be a hybrid pun, pun, no pun intended there, but we would love to get your thoughts if you had your crystal ball out here.   And we talk about these timeframes, cuz you made a great point where we're checking the vitality index every week because okay, next week the pandemic's over next week gets over. But if looking kind of soberly at what you're seeing in the marketplace, in terms of workplace environment, return to office, you know, what, what do you tell people or clients when they're asking you, you know, what is your forecast for the next year, two years or or longer if it's, if that is what you think it's going to take.   Sheila (25m 20s): So if today two and half years into the pandemic, we're down 50 to 55 on average, across north America. And oh, by the way, that's up from the 70 to 75% average has taken two and half years in another two and half years, we'll be at the 30 to 40% range on average. It will take a while for people to fully acclimatize, to returning to downtown. I've learned that I can actually get more work done in my home office.   You and I can have this call very effective at it. And so when I come downtown, it's a whole other way of working. And so for the individual, it's about balancing all of those things up. And so when you have millions of individuals making those choices, I think it's gonna take a while to, to return. So then the next question becomes well, is the office dead? You know that, that's the obvious question everybody's asking. And the answer to that is absolutely not. We're social people.   We want to be with our colleagues. Jesse, I love seeing you in the office. Like that's a really important thing. We need to have that connection. So the office is not dead, but it does have to be redefined. And so these giant towers that we have to have to be reimagined for the future so that they become relevant for the next wave of working because that relevance and the value proposition of the office is incredibly powerful. So you can't throw the baby hope with the bath water, you know, think about it 10 years ago or something like that.   Industrial. Wasn't very exciting now, suddenly it's very exciting. And so this two shall pass and the office assets two shall become very relevant all over again because the downtowns in our north American cities are vibrant centers of creativity and innovation and we need to, you know, preserve and protect that.   Jesse (27m 12s): And when it comes to that, that search for talent, you know, there's been different studies of, you know, whether it's two or three weeks of, of commute time, what that equates to in actual time of the year, in the year in terms of what employers will have to trade or what, what needs to happen between employers and employees, if they do go with a hybrid model. So if you know, like Comcast and apple just announced that I don't know if it was mandated, but that they're gonna go with a three day work week. As of now, what do you see that as the, you know, obviously it's dependent on the employer, the, the specific employers, but how do you see that negotiation taking place where some companies do wanna mandate some form of, of presence in the office, maybe not at a full-time basis, but they want to have something there.   How do, how do you see these discussions or how have you seen these discussions play out?   Sheila (28m 2s): So I think, again, it goes back, it depends on the company. Depends on the culture. Depends, depends, depends. So hybrid is here to stay. So then the questions for each company, how do navigate that hybrid? And so saying you've gotta come back five days a week are never going work. That's never going be in my view viable. I think the, the, the opportunity, same flex work schedules, flexible opportunities. I think that will be the theme overall, not thou shall do this because it's been proven that employees, 85% of employees returning to the workplace want flexible work hours.   And if you don't offer that as an employer, they're voting with their feet and going somewhere else. So that becomes table stakes. So then you say, okay, got hybrid. How am I going manage that? How am I gonna mitigate that? Typically what happens is you'll make some kind of a corporate statement, says we'd love to have people to come back two to four days a week, whatever that is. And then each manager, each team then, you know, provides governance for that team based on the type of work that do and based on theirs and that's plays.   That all means for the real estate.   Jesse (29m 24s): It's, it's always a, a wealth of knowledge. Every time we have a discussion, if there isn't anything else that, that you want to add here, I think we kind of, we could talk for another hour here on this stuff. If there's nothing else I thought we would kind of leave it here with where individuals, whether in the commercial real estate space or just, you know, investors, people that are interested in these topics when it comes to workplace strategy, where do you know what typical resources do you point people to? You know, when we're having this discussion aside from obviously going, going out to and young, we have a number of reports that you can get there.   Sheila (30m 1s): So what I I'm addicted to all of the reports. So I think starting with management consulting firms who deal with human resources, human capital, and look at those broad trends, because what we're speaking about are those are those management consulting, human resources trends that we then try to articulate in transition into the real estate world. So why we start there? So whether it's McKenzie, Deloitte, PWC, BCG, or whoever, they all have really highly valuable commentary regarding those big trends.   The other part of this is looking at the large enterprises, understanding what their policy statements are. We're starting to track all that across north America. So we could share what various financial institutions, you know, life sciences company, professional services firms are doing within their space. So understanding that I think is really important and then making your own decisions. And that's really for unoccupied piece for the investors, never before have you had to be so creative, I'm a huge proponent of workshops.   And by workshops engaging your key stakeholders, whether they're occupiers employees or whoever I'm reimagining the office building, what could it look like? Everybody loves to play monopoly. So let's play monopoly with the office building and figure out what the right fit is for your, for your building. Overall,   Jesse (31m 25s): My returning guest today has been Sheila botting Sheila. Thanks for being part of working capital.   Sheila (31m 31s): Thanks Jesse for the opportunity really love again.   Jesse (31m 44s): Thank you so much for listening to working capital the real estate podcast. I'm your host, Jesse for galley. If you like the episode, head on to iTunes and leave us a five star review and share on social media, it really helps us out. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me on Instagram, Jesse for galley, F R a G a L E, have a good one take care.  

INTRODUCTION: Cheyenne Mihko Kihêw (they/them) is a Two-Spirit Indigi-queer, born and raised in amiskwacîwâskahikan (Edmonton). Inspired by their own lived experiences with meth addiction and street involvement in their teen years, Cheyenne has dedicated their life to community-based work. They were the first in their family to attend university, holding a BA in Sociology from MacEwan. Currently, they are the Community Liaison for Edmonton 2 Spirit Society, a role that affords them the privilege of incorporating many of their passions into their work and is supporting their own journey of cultural reclamation. Cheyenne is the current Two Spirit Warrior regional titleholder 2021/2022, alongside Rob Gurney. They are also the current Chair of the Board of Directors for Boyle Street Education Centre, their former high school to which they accredit much of their achievements. Cheyenne is unapologetic in their identity as a nêhiyaw, fat, and queer femme and lives loud and proud. ***PHOTO CREDIT*** All My Relations Photography:  https://www.facebook.com/allmyrelationsphoto  INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):  ·      Cheyenne's Story·      Being Born Into Trauma·      Using Crystal Meth As A Teenager·      Are Your Drugs For Pleasure Or Pain?·      Surviving Abusive Adoptive Parents·      The Benefits Of Forgiveness ·      The Benefits Of Chosen Family·      The Toils Of Being A Homeless Youth·      The Triflingness Of The Department Of Veteran's Affairs·      Freedom In Becoming An Emancipated Teen   CONNECT WITH CHEYENNE: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tugs.cuchina/  CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comWebsite: https://www.DownUnderApparel.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonPinterest: https://www.pinterest.es/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/Email: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com  DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      OverviewBible (Jeffrey Kranz)o  https://overviewbible.como  https://www.youtube.com/c/OverviewBible ·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o  https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ ·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino  https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com  ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net VETERAN'S SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS ·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org ·      What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg  INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Hello? Hello. Hello. Are you beautiful souls out there? I love you so much. Thanks for joining me another week. For another episode, I'm super excited to have back with me again, the wonderful Cheyenne Miho. And today we're gonna be talking about their personal life story. Their history entails a lot of early life trauma and extreme abuse. They've been through everything from early life, meth addiction to abuse of adoptive parents who would do things like with whole food and lock them in their bedroom. [00:01:00] Cheyenne's situation was so terrible that the legal system allowed them. To emancipate themselves at the age of 16. Look, y'all healing can be a super long journey and Shahan is definitely on their way.Please listen to their share. Hello? Hello. Hello. All my lovely little fuckers out there and welcome back to the sex drugs in Jesus podcast. To see how I did that. I said, fuck in Jesus in the same sentence. And I know he is most pleased with me standing up on his throne at the right hand of God, applauding me as I give a fuck about Jesus on today.Cheyenne, do darling, how are you doing today? Cheyenne: hello? I'm great. How video1970169709: are De'Vannon: you? I'm fan fucking, you know, I love the cuss. Cussing is very cathartic and healing. Even people out there have not seen the history of swear words on Netflix [00:02:00] narrated by Nicholas cage. I need you to check it out that way you can understand why the fuck I cus so fucking much.So I have back with me today. Cheyenne, be Hoku. And he's coming to us from up there in Canada, Edmonton two spirit society. We did a show with her before and she really gave us a good breakdown on the indigenous history, you know, of Canada. And she gave us some good definitions and everything like that told us what two spirit meant and all these different things.She ed us. And so today we have her back on to talk more about her, her personal struggles and everything like that. And I'm so proud of her for being so transparent to go over the topics that we are going to talk about today. Cheyenne, is there anything you'd like to say right now? Cheyenne: It's just great to be back.Just a gentle reminder that my pronouns are they them that I don't usually her pronouns. De'Vannon: Okay. Sorry if I [00:03:00] messed that up or Cheyenne: something, but no, that's okay. Yeah. It's just it's yeah, it's kind of important. Also. You might hear my cat, he's still adjusting to our move. We just moved into a new place last week.And so he is a little anxious. He's an anxious baby. So he might hear him meowing or he might jump up at some point. De'Vannon: I love cats. I wish I could own every cat in the world. I have two, they go out into their special Playhouse whenever I do meetings because my cats are hell needy. And there's no way they let me get through a one hour conversation without causing a scene.so Cheyenne: I just have a door that I could close but I don't have that anymore in my new office space. So we're just rolling with it. . De'Vannon: Give us a little brief, very quick rundown on the, the society that you work for and kind of what y'all do. Cheyenne: Yeah. So I work for the Edmonton two-spirit society. I'm the community liaison, and we're a really small nonprofit organization in Edmonton, Alberta.We're traditionally known as a [00:04:00] Misu west Gein. And we primarily serve any indigenous person who identifies as two-spirit or queer trans gender diverse, sexually diverse as well as their kinship circles. So supporting family members, their networks and understanding their loved one, a little better.So we provide access to like things like ceremonies, culture and other social events. And as well as a wide range of like mental health and social support. So we're still a bit of a baby organization, but we have a lot of big plans for the next few years. De'Vannon: See there, they do all the things. And so.And again, the first episode I shot with her, we have a lot more info on all of that and a lot of information in the showy notes. So today we're, we're gonna talk about your history, very chaotic history. And but you know, we plant seeds and dirt and mud and all this crazy shit, you know, and out of that dirt and feel comes up [00:05:00] the most beautiful things that we all use to sustain ourselves off of.And so there's nothing wrong with having issues because, you know, they make us who we are. So when we wrapped up our last conversation several weeks ago, we. You know, got onto the, the happy trail about you and stuff like that. And I learned some things about you that I didn't know. So you have a history of meth addiction as do I, I don't know what they call her in your neck of the woods, but down here they call her Tina, you know, miss tea T Cheyenne: I mean, it's been a while since I was in that circle back in my day, we used to call it jib or pin are kind of like two of the, the common terms here, but I've also heard like ice or, you know, the usual ones, but yeah.Jib or pin are like the ones that I De'Vannon: always used. Mm-hmm are these, they call her that [00:06:00] fucking bitch, you know? Cause she, she ruins things. And so so what would age range was, was the meth addiction? What age range was this? Yeah. Cheyenne: So like you said, my, my background is messy and complicated, but I started using math at age 14.And it took me about three years. So I was into my 17th year when I finally was able to stop using. De'Vannon: Okay. Do you remember who got you into it for the first time or how that oh yeah, Cheyenne: I remember the exact moment. Oh yeah. 100%. I, so I grew up in a really violent household, just a trigger warning for anyone listening that my story does come with, like child abuse and trauma and all those hard things.As well as like indigenous trauma and [00:07:00] residential schools, all of that's a part of my story. So I left home at 14. I was adopted by my aunt and uncle and we can talk a little bit more about that. But I was adopted by my biological aunt and her husband and brought into their family. And after like a sustained well of like physical abuse in the home, I decided to leave at age 14.And so I was kind of living on the streets for a little while there prior to getting placed into a group home. And it was during that initial time that I had on the streets. And so I had met some person like on, I think like Nextopia, which was like a popular social media. It was like Facebook, but way before Facebook.And it was like made here in Edmonton. So it was like our own little social media that we had. And so I had met this guy and we like started dating or whatever. I was 14, he was like 16. But we were both unhoused at the time. And so we were like hanging out on the streets and he had this gay man that he was friends with.And in Edmonton, I don't know where you live, but in Edmonton, it's common. And particularly in the inner [00:08:00] city for there to be what we call rooming hoses. So it's just like a building full of like isolated suites that have enough room for like a bed. It's a small little kitchenette and usually the bathroom is down the hall.And so they're quite small. You can't really fit a lot of people in there, but my boyfriend at the time, and I moved in with this gay guy and he had about like four other queer men living there with him. And my boyfriend would like go and try and find work during the day. And so I was often like hanging out with these queer guys and one of them one day was like, Hey, you wanna come for a hoot?And I was like, I smoked cannabis at the time and was like, and I thought I knew about drugs. Like I had heard a lot about the acids and the, the ketamines, but I hadn't really tried anything to that point, other than weed, I smoked a lot of weed and he is like, Hey, you wanna come for a hoot? And then like, he's like taking me to the bathroom.And I was like, yeah, I figured it was just gonna be cannabis. And he pulled out a light bulb and like had like his whole little setup and started pouring the crystals in. And I was like the. Fuck is that and I was just fascinated by the [00:09:00] whole process and it was just like extra sketchy, cuz we were in this bathhouse like bathroom in this rooming house.Not a bathhouse. We were not in a bathhouse. I, I was underage at this time. So that was my first time using it. I didn't really know what I was getting myself into. And it was like harmless enough, but I can trace the following three years back to that moment and not really understanding what it was.And like I said, just being so fascinated by the whole process and being like instantly brought into it.De'Vannon: I dunno how it was for you, but it wasn't until after, you know, I went through traumatic experiences that I became open, you know, to drugs and stuff like that. Cuz people had been offering them to me all my life and I always said no. Do you feel like had you. You know, you're basically homeless at the time.Do you think that if you were at home in a more [00:10:00] supportive situation that you would've accepted that, or, you know, from him. Yeah, Cheyenne: I think about that a lot, because I was born into trauma. Right. I was born into grief and that's not even just an indigenous thing. It's just like, my family is so broken. And like, we're doing a lot better now.I just wanna preface that I have a fairly decent relationship with my aunt and uncle now. We haven't quite worked through a lot of this stuff yet. I'm hoping that will come. And if they listen to this, I love you. But you know, growing up in a home where the people that were supposed to care for me, because they had adopted me, they instead of like providing a safe space for me, they further traumatized me.Right. And so I also have ADHD. And I think it's really important to note that I was already on Ritalin at a really young age. I, I think they had me on Ritalin at. Grade one. So I was already on subs like stimulants. I had already been using stimulants for a number of years prior to actually having that first encounter with [00:11:00] meth.So like, I think my likelihood of getting into it probably would've been a lot more dis decreased, but just by understanding my family's history with addiction, my own history with substances that were prescribed to me, I likely probably still would've engaged in that, but maybe not as early or not as aggressively than I had, but I mean, it's all speculation, right?De'Vannon: I'm here from some, I'm here for some speculation this morning. I'm here from some specul. I am, I really am this ING. Cuz what I'm thinking is like, you know, drugs, you know, release so much dopamine in different chemicals. Yes. Chemicals in us that make us feel all yummy. You know, when we're walking around feeling bad and miserable, it creates like an emotional deficit and drugs feel that void it's, you know, it's a complete opposite direction.And, you know, and there seems to me to be like a [00:12:00] pattern and a trend to people who are generally unhappy or who wrestle a lot in life and struggle who like tend to find drugs and cl to them. Now, when I was going through it, I didn't realize that that's what I was getting out of the drugs. I thought that I was just partying and having to get time.I didn't realize that I was actually trying to make myself feel better and numb pain. And so I wanna point that out. Cause I'd like people to be aware, you know, sometimes you're just partying for the sake of part and there's nothing more than a fucking party, but sometimes you're actually trying to to patch over trauma, but you're not really addressing the issue.And then as soon as you sober up, you're gonna want more because then the pain comes back. Cheyenne: Yeah. Yeah. It's like such a temporary fix to that heavier stuff that we carry around, you know, and I think for a long time, that's actually what it was for me, you know? And when I was unhoused and using meth, a lot of times it was also to stay awake, cuz I was walking around all night and didn't have anywhere to sleep.And so [00:13:00] you're trying to wait it out until like the, the local drop in opens, you know, so you need to be up and alert all night. And so it was helpful for that. But you know, when I did quit smoking meth, I didn't stop using drugs. Like I wanna be super clear about that. Like I stopped using meth at 17, but I still used other substances for a number of years.And even to this day, I'm not totally sober and very open that I, I use cocaine a couple times a year. I use mushrooms a couple times a year, but it's not at all where I'd start on a Friday and finish on a Monday, you know in my twenties, like when I was raving a lot and really partying hard. And I think at that time I was masking the trauma and I was masking that pain and not really conscious of it and aware of it.So as much as I'm like, oh yeah, I'm just partying. No, I'm actually just needing to start dealing with my stuff and I'm not quite there yet, you know? I'm there now, but it's, it's taken me a little while to get there. De'Vannon: so then it require, I'm thankful that you're there. It requires like, you know, a gut check moment or several of them, [00:14:00] because, you know, as a drug dealer, when I was a drug dealer, I I'd say probably 95% of my clientele, you know, was probably going way too hard on the meth and all the other drugs that I was selling them.And I only had very few who were like, they only did meth or G or whatever I was selling on their birthdays or when they travel, you know, most people didn't have that sort of discipline, but that discipline does exist. But the thing is, if you're already doing drugs and you're actually doing it in a balanced, fun way, if a traumatic experience happens, you could slip into this.Into this, what we're talking about, where you're now, what was once just fun. You're actually now using it to deal with the trauma and you may not be consciously aware of it. And so if something really bad happens, I would say probably stop the drugs for a moment until you get your shit sorted out so [00:15:00] that you don't overlap that pleasure of the drugs and get it mixed in with whatever bad thing has befallen you.Yeah. Cheyenne: If I find that I'm having a tough time in life, or if I'm struggling, stressed out, mental health is bad. I know that that's not a time to reach for substances or alcohol. Right. It's really in a moment of recreation, I'm at a music festival. It's like a celebrate. I don't even really wanna say celebratory, but it's, you know, a more intentional kind of move as opposed to, I'm just trying to like deal with my stress in a, in a, in a trauma response kind of way that I'm used to.So I'm pretty good now at, at understanding the difference there. And like I say, I don't I try to avoid substances if I'm not doing well in my head. cause I know it's a slippery slope. De'Vannon: And so I wanna walk down the path that you're talking about. You know, it sounds like you basically harm reduced yourself to a point where you can manage the different narcotics and substances.I don't think drugs are bad. [00:16:00] I think they can become bad for certain people. And it's for us to understand when the shit's gone too far, when you need, you need to dial it back or stop. Now, what you've done goes against a lot of conventional. I won't call it wisdom because I don't find it to be very wise, a lot of conventional advice, like the anonymous movements and shit like that.Try to give out and where, and they say once an addict, always an addict you know, and I just don't believe in that. And so. So I, I love that you're being transparent and telling the world that yeah, I used to be strung out on meth and you know what, now I'm able to just do me a couple of bumps of cocaine a year and be good with that or whatever may come along.But what do you think about how, you know, oh, here's the kitty let's Cheyenne: Steve don't show De'Vannon: them your bubble please. Hey Steve. Yeah, it's happy Friday. He's like, look at his ass[00:17:00]Cheyenne: ass, a small, he in a house. So he is really curious about everything right now. De'Vannon: Yeah. So what are your thoughts about he has stripes like my, like my eldest cat, Felix. What are your thoughts about how the anonymous movement like crystal meth anonymous? Alcoholics anonymous tries to keep people under that thumb of always being an addict forever and saying, if you ever use anything ever again, and RA a rock will happen in your life.Cheyenne: Yeah. I mean, I have, I have friends and family that are in the program. And it, it, if it works for them, it works for them. But in my personal experience, in trying to use those programs, it was very shameful. I was like taught to feel shameful of my decisions, taught to feel shameful of my trauma responses.And I just, I, I also don't resonate with religion as we spoke about before. And so a lot of those programs are centered around go. And even though it's like good orderly direction, it still has like a religious undertone to me. Which [00:18:00] makes me feel uncomfortable just in general. But the whole idea of like, you know, a relapse is like the end of the world, or, you know, you have to like repent, anytime you'd make a mistake.There's just like a lack of humanity there, or like an imposition of shame that we don't need to hold. Right. Like I Tru I do believe in harm reduction because I've seen the benefits in my own life and how it's. Like been a benefit to the community that I serve. And I don't feel that those programs honor that space of harm reduction or that space of like meeting people where they're at and, and, and understanding their traumas.You're standing up in these rooms and you're talking about your pain, but. It's not therapy. Do you know what I mean? Like it's not a substitute for actually sitting down and working through your traumas because the people in that room are not equipped to support you through that process because they also need someone else supporting them.So peer based education, peer based support is definitely beneficial, but at some point we also need to realize that like those rooms, you know, there's not a lot of success rate that [00:19:00] come out of them. You need to actually be like attending them. And there's like a lot of research around the productivity of these, of these spaces.And they're not super. Great. Like they, they tend to lead to relapse a lot more actually. And I think that's really worth noting. Like you're going into these rooms thinking that you're gonna get better. And at some point you might just be retraumatizing yourself by listening to these stories and putting yourself back on that path, which then is then shamed if you use again.So I don't really resonate with those rooms, but again, I, I honor and respect that it does work for some people. Some people really need that rigidity in the routine to be able to say on their path. I'm not one of those people. So it didn't really work for me. I found that what got me to where I'm at today was.My, my mom, like my biological mom, she was an addict for many years. Had a pretty severe addiction to alcohol and you know, injection drug use contracted Hep C at one point during the poor, the process of her drug use. And that's why she didn't raise me. Right. But so [00:20:00] she tried the rooms when she was getting sober, but it was really having support from her family that got her there.And that's what got me to where I'm at. So if I'm having a rough time or if I need support, I call my biological mom and we talk about it. And it's just a really open Frank conversation. And I really appreciate that she can hold that space for me because, you know, she had to take accountability to the harms that she also caused me that got me to the point where I need to talk about this stuff.Right. So she's able to like actually come to terms with what she's done, her choices, how it's impacted me, and then now my choices, if all of that makes sense. Welcome to my long winded responses. Again. De'Vannon: Hey, use all the fucking winds you want. Cheyenne: Blow through mm-hmm De'Vannon: so let me, let me, let me think, let me think.Let me think. So I'm gonna throw a little bit of shade at the anonymous movements. You know, I found them to be very negative and I'm saying this because there's probably somebody out there listening. [00:21:00] Who's new with this whole fighting addiction and everything. And the anonymous movements might be one of the first things that someone throws at them or something like that.And it just reminded me so much of being in church, you know, where they think that their way is better than any other way. And they're not willing to be open minded and take a second look at things. And it's just so Just so bad, you know, and like you said, when I would, I would go to the meetings feeling happy by the time the shit was over, I would feel heavy and depressed.Like I wanted to go get high, you know, from listening to the, a bunch of grown ass men, bitch and moan, you know, and everything like that. And it just, it never worked for me. I did not like re you know, calling yourself an addict every time. The whole point is to get over being an addict where they don't believe you can ever be healed, but at the same time, what sentences are gonna say, what sense is gonna do for me to sit here and say, I'm an addict every damn day.You know? Cause sometimes they want you go to meetings three times a [00:22:00] day. It's like you're reaffirming the negatives thing that you're trying to get away from. But if it, if, if it's a program trying to keep you under their foot and under their thumb, then it works great for their agenda, which is the same thing.The church does a lot of times as they have the, the members in a certain way, that you can never really be free of them. It's like, you always are gonna need them for some reason. And I also found them to be hypocritical because all the, all the shit they talk about drugs, the pots of coffee that they would go through, you know, at every meeting and how they chain smoke cigarettes and shit outside.I said, okay, let me get this straight. I'm not supposed to do cocaine or meth or anything, never again for the rest of my life, but you can smoke five packs of cigarettes and drink 10 gallons of coffee a day. Okay.Cheyenne: yeah, it is. It is quite hypocritical. Yeah. And, and like, [00:23:00] even to the, the amount of like donuts or sugar that they provide, you know, and I'm not saying don't feed people, like, obviously we should feed people in these faces, but like, it is ironic that they then, you know, encourage other basically you're just substituting your one addiction for something else.Right. And I think that's too, is the rooms also become an addiction of it's. So I think that's kind of my other issue with them is that because we're not really teaching people how to build their toolkits up, to respond to traumatic moments or stressful moments, we're actually just creating further dependency onto the rooms.And so then you're not actually helping them be able to maintain it when there's no access to a room or when that's not a, an option, because then, then what's the next option to them. It's the room, drugs, the room or alcohol. Right. And it doesn't have to be like that. There's a whole other spectrum of supports that exist between the room and the drugs.De'Vannon: Mm. And so help me understand, how was it like [00:24:00] growing up, like in an adopted home? Did you know that your mother was out there somewhere? Did she reappear randomly out of nowhere? One day? Cheyenne: Yeah, she was in and outta my life. So I can like start from the beginning. So yeah, like my grandparents were both on my mother's side, I don't know my biological father, so I've never met him.I don't know anything about his family. When him and my mother were together they, she, he was quite abusive to her. And so he was actually it got to the point where she was too scared to tell him that she was pregnant with me because she thought that he would basically just. Forced her to abort or beat her up to miss Carrie.And so he actually went to jail and so she fled Vancouver and came back to Edmonton and had me here without the knowledge of my father. So whether or not my father knows I'm alive, I have, I have no idea. But so my mother on my mother's side is all indigenous say for like one or two family [00:25:00] members through the line that were, were settler.And so we come from drift Powell, CRE nation in Northern Alberta. I was not born and raised there because my grandmother's only experiences with the residential schools and abuse. From her partner, my grandfather she left the reserve at a young age when my mom was really young and raised all her children in Edmonton.And it was very like an intentional thing where she didn't want us to grow up on the reserve. She wanted us to have better access, to supports and grow up in a healthier way without the violence, which didn't necessarily work cuz some of that trauma. So deep-rooted right. We just carry it between family members, between generations.And so my mother struggled with substances, as I mentioned and tried really hard to take care of me for the first couple of years, brought me back to British Columbia and there's like this weird timeline in my story where I actually. Don't know what happened to me. So there was some sort of incident in Parksville where my mother was living at the time and social services got involved and, and I don't know the true story, but I've heard that [00:26:00] I was found like in a pile of pills in a hotel room, I've heard that my mother was like passed out on a couch in an apartment and social workers found me.So I don't really know the actual story. No, one's really kind of given me clarity, but my grandmother came to BC and brought me back to Edmonton. And then I was raised by my aunt and uncle. And so I knew that I was adopted. Like they didn't try to hide that from me. And my mom was really struggling with alcohol at the time, particularly.And so my household that I was growing up in was alcohol free. So that was one good thing about my home. There was a lot of cannabis in my house, but I had three siblings that were my biological aunts children. And they had it slightly better than I did, I would say. But my mom would like come in and out.So she took me back again in grade three. I can't remember how old I was in grade three. Like, I don't know, eight maybe. And she took me back and brought me back into her care. And then one day she just never picked me up from [00:27:00] school. And I was waiting and waiting and waiting and she had relapsed and was back out on the streets partying.And so I ended up back in social services and I was actually at a foster home for a few months before my aunt and uncle took me back in. So my mom was, was in and out of the picture. She would come to like the odd family events and stuff, but it was mainly my aunt and uncle that were, were raising me and, and doing so in violence at that De'Vannon: time.Okay. I'm on that violence from the aunt in just a second. So having never met your father. How, how do you feel about that? Do you have peace about that? I ask because so many times I come across people who really, really, really have a big problem with not knowing one or both of their parents. Where are you on that?Cheyenne: Yeah, it does bother me. Not so much because I wanna know him, like if he was treating my mom poorly and was like, my mom was [00:28:00] terrified of him. I don't necessarily wanna know that person. But he has a family. I have grandparents on that side. I know I have two half brothers I don't know their names, so my dad's name was Walter Adams and he was born in Scarborough, Ontario, and that's like the only information that I have about him.And then he had two sons. I haven't been able to find any other information out. And I refuse to do like one of those DNA things, cuz I don't want them having my DNA on the that's like a colonizer tactic, not giving them my DNA. But it's been a thing of like what medical. Things are in my, in my family's history that I should know about what culture am I from?Right. There could be a whole beautiful thing that I could be immersing myself in. Maybe my family's Scottish or Irish, or I have no idea. So it would be lovely to be able to connect with what other parts of my heritage exist. And also too, like who do I look like? Like I know, I look like my mom, I can see my mom and myself, but I'd love to know what my dad looked like, because it would just give clarity about who am I as a [00:29:00] person.And like, how did I get this beautiful brain of mine? And where does my personality come from? Cuz it doesn't always match my mom and right. So like there's stuff like that where I'm like, I would love to know who is Cheyenne, but there's a half of me that I'll never know. So there's a half of me that I'll never understand where it came from and it doesn't work quite like that genetics and stuff.It's not half and half, but you know, I'm, I'm just always curious about how I got to be the person I am and I can see a lot of my mom and myself, but I also see a lot of what's probably my dad. De'Vannon: I heard you say you felt like the the DNA test was, is a colonizer tactic. Tell me about that. Well, it's just, they keep Cheyenne: your day in DNA on file.And they're using it. I mean, it is pretty cool that they're using DNA now to like solve cold cases and like that kind of thing, but like, they keep your DNA on file and they can use that for however they wish. Like that just makes me feel UN uneasy. I just, yeah, I don't know. like, like, it feels like a colonizer, like just like gaining in control by containing [00:30:00] DNA.Like it's like my ultimate that's as intimate a part of me as you can get. De'Vannon: I can understand that. And you, you know what, there's no reason why you're not right. Cuz what you're saying is once it's out there, it's out there and you really don't know who the fuck has it. Cheyenne: yeah. That's my issue with it is where does it go?And like I say, like I don't have issues with law enforcement using it to, to solve murders and get justice for people. But at the same time I feel like if my consent should be given for that and I guess when they take your DNA, they probably have some sort of consent form and that's on the release form.I'm guessing. I'm not sure I've never tried. Cause I'm just, it, it makes me nervous. De'Vannon: so when you say like, so your aunt and uncle were the people who adopted you, who were abusive to you, you know, I'm getting like you know, do you mind telling us like how was, were they like withholding food from you, locking you in a closet or hit, you know, hitting you.[00:31:00]Yeah, Cheyenne: it was never like, I wanted to be super clear. Like I love my aunt and uncle, and I wanna acknowledge that my aunt came from the same like violent background that my mother did. Right. So she carried a lot of that stuff forward. My uncle has some stuff that was never really revealed to me, but he was going through some stuff out of him.I'm not trying to excuse their behavior. It's just a way of me trying to understand and process what happened to me. And I still hold a lot of love for them. And again, if they're listening, I love you. But I, I, I talk openly about what happened to me because that's who Cheyenne is. And if you didn't want me to talk about it, then you shouldn't have done it.Okay. And that's my that's my bottom line is like, if you didn't want me to talk about my hurt, then why did you hurt me? Because I was a child. And so yeah, it, it, it, I, because I have ADHD, I have a lot of behavioral problems and no one really sat down with us and explained what ADHD meant. Right. And they never really [00:32:00] explained rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria, or explained executive dysfunction or all like the complexities of ADHD.Usually people think like, oh, they can't sit still. And like, you see me, I'm fidgeting with something all the time. I'm never really sitting still, but ADHD is actually really. Impactful on so many parts of my life. And now as an adult, I understand that. But as a kid, my behavioral issues that came from ADHD, but also from a place of trauma and me trying to like fit into this world that I didn't, as I mentioned last time, I feel like I'm the in between person, right.I'm always in between kind of everything. And that was even in my childhood. And so whenever I would do something or if I, I, and I'm trying to, like, when I look back at my childhood, I'm, I'm trying to pinpoint exact moments of things that I did. And I can never remember what I did. I just remember the abuse after.And that's like really telling, because it was probably something super mild that I did. So some of the punishments that I would receive were yep. Having fooled food with help from me. So a big tactic was taking away my [00:33:00] mattress and just leaving me on a two, like a plank, like a plywood, my bed frame and locking me in my room and I wasn't allowed to play with anything or talk to anybody or, or anything.So it was isolation by myself in my room, like like you're in the hole or something in jail, you know? And they wouldn't feed me. They wouldn't nothing. And one time I remember I was playing with a pencil crayon and my uncle came in to check on me and saw me with a pencil crayon and beat me with a pencil crayon.And so I had like bruises and, and everything. And I had to go to camp that, that week. And so I went to camp with all these bruises and had to lie and say that I like fell off my bike and it was like a whole thing. But, so that was a big one was lots of like physical violence. Lots of like manipulation of like, you know, calling me a slot or like using really like, like aggressive language or towards me, weird like psychological stuff where they would one time they pretend to abandon me.We were going on a camping trip and they drove away without me and left me [00:34:00] standing in the yard. And I was abandoned as a child by my mother. Right. So not growing up with my mom, I have abandoned in trauma. And so when they left me, it's like something that I'm processing in therapy right now.Going back to that, that moment of like, they was a joke to them. But to me it was traumatizing because I still carry that now, like 30 years later, you know, of like, they just drove away, but they came back like 10 minutes later, you know? Yeah, lots of like, or if I didn't wanna eat something, we weren't allowed to leave the table until we ate it.So I fucking hate zucchini. I will not eat zucchini. I hate fish because it's a trauma around that. Right. Like being forced to sit there and. You're not allowed to eat anything else. And if you didn't finish eating it, then you'd go to bed without any other food. You'd come back in the morning and you'd go back to the table and have to finish eating that.And so step zucchini is my fucking nemesis. I hate it. Just because of that. So yeah, lots of like physical violence, lots of like mental, emotional stuff. Like psychological stuff. [00:35:00] Yeah. And from a young age, like it started as, as early as I can remember. I don't even remember when it started, but yeah, young and it carried right through until I would say I was in grade six.And that's because my, my sister, my cousin, she got social services involved. She had run away to my grandmother's house and social services were contact and they did an investigation. And so the physical violence stopped at that point, but the, the emotional violence was still continuing. And so I was 14.I was in grade seven or grade nine. Sorry. When I, when I made the decision to leave the house. So the physical violence had stopped at like 12. But yeah, the mental, emotional stuff carried through throughout junior high. De'Vannon: I, so, you know, I, I, I have so much respect for you. You're able to have such a positive attitude and everything like that about, you know, towards these people, kudos to you.So what was it like having a mother who was on and off of [00:36:00] drugs like that? Do you remember how that affected you or I just Cheyenne: remember being like, why doesn't she want me. Like, why doesn't she love me? Right? Like that's, that's I think the biggest thing that I took away of like, nobody wants me, my mom doesn't want me, my dad doesn't want me.And then now these people who are supposed to care for me, who made the choice, they chose to bring me into their house instead of loving me and protecting me, they further traumatized me. And so I think that was the thing that I struggled with the most as a kid of like, not understanding why everything was happening to me and not understanding why choices were being made for me.And where was my mom? Like, and then when she did come in, she would be drunk or she'd have a new boyfriend and like, it would just be uncomfortable, you know? So like, yeah. I just remember just always wondering, like, what's next like, why, why is this happening? Like, and I just block out a lot of my childhood.There's a lot of like memories that I just don't have. And a part of that is an ADHD thing. Just cuz I have a terrible time forming [00:37:00] memories. But I think I've just shut down a lot of my childhood. And I remember some of the heavier traumatic moments, but some of the good times are gone too.You know, like I try. I'm figuring it out. But yeah, it's just, you know, it was a lot of confusion for my childhood of like, why doesn't she wanna get better? Why doesn't she want me, why doesn't anybody want me, you know?And that's like a hard thing to carry as an adult. Like even still being chronically single for three years. You're like even still, nobody wants me, you know, but I know that's not at the end of the day, that's not true. It's just, you know, things you carry forward from your De'Vannon: past. I have every belief that you are going gain the strength you need to totally overcome at all.And so I'm curious. So we have all of this fuckery that, that didn't happen. Would you have the experience once you broke away [00:38:00] from your aunt, uncle and you were now homeless, you know, a homeless youth, did you find like a community in a sense of family out there in the streets that you felt like you had found for the first time?Yeah. Cheyenne: I would say in particular, like we had our straight family, you know, we would like, like ride around on our BMXs and hang out in the square and play ack and smoke meth and stairwells, you know, I had that crew, but it was when I started raving that I really found myself and I really felt like I found a community.So I started going to the after hours when I was like 14, but I would like always get kicked out. Cause I was, they had passed a bylaw that it was 16 plus. So I had a couple years to wait, so I would go in, they'd kick me out. And so everybody knew me in the parking lot to hang out in the parking lot a lot.But that was where I really started to find a community for the first time where I felt like I was like loved and welcomed. And for all of my. Weirdness all my flaws, all my eccentric nest that I bring to the table that was like [00:39:00] welcomed in the rave community, because a lot of the people that we shared space with were also coming from background similar to mine, or coming from spaces where they were the, the black sheep, the ostracized one, the, you know, and so I think that was the space where I was like, oh, I, I actually belong in this world.And, and then that's okay that I exist.De'Vannon: Honey, the, the tears you're shedding right now are not in vain. You know, I feel like, I feel like they're healing you, you know, I see those tears and I appreciate appreciate them because I believe they're healing you. And also, I believe you're shedding tears for other people too. Who've gone through the similar things.And so, and I love how you're just letting 'em flow. You're like, you know what? This is me. They call me cry Cheyenne: in for a reason. always crying. De'Vannon: let it go, honey, let it go. Let it go. Let it go. Cheyenne: Well, and I think it's important [00:40:00] that people hear my story because, and that's why I don't shy away from talking about the harder stuff.Even though I know it's like other people's story too. It's, it's very much my story. And I think that if someone can hear my story and know that like you're gonna be okay, like it's gonna be okay, you don't have to be what other people tell you that you are or who you've been made out to think that you are like, you're just so beautiful and perfect the way you are.And like, no matter how much other people beat you, like that's never, they're never gonna beat that out of you. Like that's yours to own. And I think I've had to really accept that. None of those things were my fault, everything that happened to me, some of the decisions I made when I started using meth and like living on the streets and being more violent, those were my choices that I have to own, but I didn't ask my aunt and uncle to beat me.I didn't ask to be adopted. I didn't ask to be born. Right. And so a lot of that staff I had to really just separate mm-hmm my. My choices from their choices. And so that's why I say, if you don't want me to talk about my story, then don't hurt me. [00:41:00] Like, if, if you don't want that to be part of my story, then don't make it part of my story.And I think that goes like with any person that comes into my life now, it's not just about my aunt and uncle it's about anybody, you know, like, and I've had really good conversations with my biological mom. Like I said about everything that she's done about the abandonment and about how it's impacted me now as adult.But I haven't quite had that conversation with my aunt and uncle yet. And so I know it's coming. And I don't know if it's gonna go in a positive direction or Renee. I don't know if it's like gonna be a make or break for our relationship, but I'm ready to have the conversation. I still have a few more therapy sessions before I, I get to that point, but I'm, I'm almost there to have the conversation of like, this is what you did and this is how it's affected me.And I just need to hear you be accountable for it. Right. And like, I love you. I forgive you, but I, I need you to hold space for my pain.De'Vannon: I commend you on your bravery. You you gotta. You you gotta walk ahead of you, but [00:42:00] but you know, but you're doing everything that you can do because you can't really control it, what anyone else does, but at least, you know, you have a strong sense of peace knowing you exhausted every possible means to sort it all out.And then you haven't acccess to anger. You haven't become bitter, you know, or anything like that. And that's something that I'm noticing, and that can happen to people by it'll just get angry and stuff like that, and not really do anything except for stay angry. But what, one thing, one good thing I did learn from my sponsor and crystal meth anonymous is that bitterness and resentment it's like me drinking poison and expecting someone else to die.so, so, so however it is that you do it. Y'all let that bitterness go. Let it go. Let it go. Let it go. Let it go. I like stay on this, the, the, the, the, the homeless, like, youth experience, because I'm, I'm thinking about like, say [00:43:00] chosen family and things like that. So like, so like when the biological family doesn't quite work out in.Sometimes I see people who just cannot get over their biological family. Be it sisters, brothers, cousins, moms, dads, whatever. I dare say. I think some people have an addiction to family. Okay. I, I, I do believe that. What do you think about chosen family? Because there's a lot of people. There's a lot of us, black sheepy ones.Okay. It's never gonna work out with us in our biological family. And I just think it's time we come to terms with that. Cheyenne: yeah. It's, it's the dependency thing. We're like we're indoctrinated to believe that our family is like, we need to be right or die with our family. No matter how much they hurt us. And I just can't get on board with that.Like it's like being in a toxic relationship, being with an abusive partner, we wouldn't say, oh no, you need to stay with them because you love them. Right. We would say, no, that person is hurting. You, you need to separate yourself [00:44:00] from them. That person does not bring you joy, separate yourself from them.And I think that's the same with the family. You know, like I say, it it'll be a make or break conversation with my family because like, it's, it, it, it, it just has gotta happen. But I think that's why I love my chosen family so much, you know like particularly the rave community helped me for so many years, and now I have a drag family and like The drag community has been so much just so loving and caring and comforting for me.And I've only been doing drag since August. And so I found a chosen family, even within that small group of people and it was instant. It was like, they were just like, yeah, I see you. And I love you for who, who you are. And so I'm, I'm a firm believer in chosen family as well. I think we need to make spaces for ourselves that bring us joy, Marie condo, that shit.If, if, if your family does not spark joy, fucking, just move on and, and find someone who does carry you. Someone who is willing to love you in your messy times, someone who is willing to say, Hey, you're fucking up. How do we fix that? [00:45:00] Someone who can call you in and, and, and cry with you and love with you and celebrate with you.And if your family's not willing to do that and accept you for who you are, then it's okay to step away. Like, and I, and I firmly believe that. De'Vannon: And we're not saying it won't take some counseling and some talking through because it, oh, no Cheyenne: therapy, like, please get, get a therapist, please. De'Vannon: Cause it's like, when you leave biological family, it's almost like they've died in a way.And, and I, and I found, I had to like mourn the loss, you know, of a certain sibling of mine when, when there was just no path forward for us because of bitterness that they hold towards me and they refused to talk through it. You know, it felt like it was like, it was like attending a funeral for them.And it was, and I had to, you know, you know, I talked to my counselor and everything about that and, you know, we were able to find peace and resolution. I was curious like your aunt and uncle are they like, [00:46:00] do they say they're like religious people. Not at all. Cheyenne: No, no, no, no, no, not at all. No, we, we did not grow up with religion.My grandmother was the religious one. And so I spent much of my youth, like I said, in going to church and choir and like doing all the things. But my family was never really there at church. They would go like once a year, but in the last couple of years, a lot of my family has been really embracing our indigenous side, which has been beautiful to see.So not quite going to ceremonies and stuff yet, but you know, rejecting Canada day, rejecting religion you know, even starting to reject the religious holidays, which has been really great for me because I'm like, I feel bad that I'm not coming to Christmas dinner, but like I'm not celebrating Christmas anymore.It's just not my thing. It's not for me. I don't believe in it. But yes, it's been really great to see them embrace the indigenous kind of side of things. And, and thankfully religion. Wasn't a big part of my story outside of like the earlier part of my years.[00:47:00]De'Vannon: So, so then you get into a group home, so you're no longer homeless. So when you were homeless, like you said that you were like smoking meth to walk, you know, to stay up all night. It reminded me when I was, when I was homeless in Houston, I would constantly have meth in my system. And so I would just walk and walk and walk and walk and walk, you know, that's when I walked myself down to 127 pounds, you know, everything like that.And it was whew. I was barely here. This, this, this girl was barely here. And sohow often did you eat? Because for me it was about like maybe every five, seven days or so. I might come across food. Do you remember. Cheyenne: Well, see, I had a unique experience because I was in high school at the time. So I was still attending classes and I, I love my high school there. It was the boil street education center.And they have a meal program, [00:48:00] so they feed their students breakfast and lunch, and that was a big way of getting me into school. So I was like living in like the river valley. I would hike up the stairs in the morning, come out of the, come out of the ravine and go to class and, and be able to get a hot breakfast and a hot lunch.And so school, as much as I wasn't so engaged in the material. It could keep me there because they would feed me. And they're smart. It was a very intentional thing for them. And even to this day, the school still feeds their students. Two meals a day. They have hamper programs, they have supports for their students.And so when I was, when I was homeless, it was like a really big thing for me, was to be able to go and eat Monday to Friday. And then Saturdays, it would depend if I would make it to the soup kitchen or not. There would be days when I wouldn't make it to school or wouldn't make it to soup kitchen and I'd go without food.Or when school was off during the summer, so they have more of a year round program. So they're really only off for part of July and August. And so there would be that short brief of time where I wouldn't have two [00:49:00] meals a day. And. From 14 to 16. So when I was 16, even though I was still using meth, my biological mom was sober by that point.And so she got a new home. She got like an apartment and I moved in with her for a while. So I lived with her for a year while I was still using meth. And I was still very street involved. I had a space to go home and sleep in, but I was still like very much out and about on the street all hours of the night and day.But I was getting food at that point. So, De'Vannon: and you said in the was it a hamburger program you said? I couldn't quite hear. Yeah. They call it a ham, a hamper program. Cheyenne: Yeah. We have hamper programs yeah. At the school as well. I'm actually the board of directors for the high school. I'm still involved with the school.I just really believe in the work that they're doing because they saved my life. Like it was boil street being like, yeah, you're tweaked out. You're, you're a sketchy wild child, but we're gonna just love you and accept you as you are. And again, that's where my earliest [00:50:00] introductions to harm reduction came from, was through the school of like, yeah, you're clearly sketching, but you're still allowed to be here.It wasn't like, oh, you're high on meth. You need to leave. It was like, oh, you're high on meth. Let's sit you down here and support you and give you extra attention so that, you know, you are going to be okay. Like, we make sure that you're okay. And I just really appreciated that approach. So they, I would say they saved my life and they fed me, which I really appreciated.De'Vannon: yeah, my God. I had too many doors closed in my face when I. High on meth and everything like that. I'm so glad you had a different experience and I didn't have enough sense to go and find, like, I didn't know that there was one stops and places you can go and shower and stuff like that. I tried to eat at the shower was Cheyenne: harder De'Vannon: for me.Yeah. I tried to eat at the veteran's affair. It's like a soup kitchen that my cousin had told me about. I eat there like once and the next time I went back, they told me I was dressed too good. And so they turned me away. So they, so they [00:51:00] wouldn't let me eat because I looked too good at the, at the veteran's affairs.And so. They were I Cheyenne: didn't forbid I, how people look De'Vannon: nice. yeah. Like, and I think what it was is from where the drug rate had happened. I think, you know, when you're homeless, you show from house to house, sometimes you might pick up a shirt here, pair of jeans there, that sort of thing. And I think some of my clothes may have been recycled back to me from when the drug rate happened.My shit got scattered all over Houston. And so I was able to piecemeal a decent outfit together. I just, you know, and I just felt really good about myself for that one day at that one time. And you know, so I'm thinking I'm looking good. I'm gonna get me something to eat. You know, I haven't shot up meth yet.Otherwise I wouldn't have an appetite and they're like, Leave. And so I had to sit there and watch everybody eat, not once, but twice. And then I was denied food. And so I was like, you know what? Back to the streets I go then . And so Cheyenne: And I'm guessing that was run by some sort of, you said ministry. Oh, no veterans.[00:52:00] So not religion based? No. Okay. A lot of RSU kitchens here are religion based. Two in part, part, two of the main ones are run by like churches. De'Vannon: You have them, they might be like under like a Catholic archdiocese or something like that. But the ones that are like that here are not very religious. Like they might say a prayer when all the homeless people get in there, otherwise disadvantaged people get there to eat, but nobody's like coming around, handing you out little Bibles or anything like that.No, this was a government facility. I'm a veteran of the United States air force at a veteran's affairs. Kitchen. And I was denied food there even as a veteran. Yeah. That's all that was, there was veterans. It was a place just for veterans. And so, but they told me that's so frustrating. I wasn't looking trashy enough for their, for their liking and Cheyenne: so gross.[00:53:00]De'Vannon: Okay. So then. So then you got emancipated at the age of 17. Talk to me about that process. I think it's abundantly clear why you probably wanted to be emancipated, but there's something you'd like to say about the why I'd also like to know the, how. Cheyenne: Yeah. So when I left home at 14 and by the time I then began living with my mom at 16.So in those years I was like in and out of group homes. I had some charges that I received as well for some stuff. So I was like in and out of the young offender center as well, never more than like a couple days or a week. I had 2, 2, 2 instances where I was in jail. But it was like going through group homes and going through like just constantly in and outta group homes.And like, I always just felt like I'd just rather be on the streets. I would much rather be like, and I, I think part of that was like I had what's that disorder. Oh, I can't remember what it's called anywheres, like pressed. What is I [00:54:00] can't remember the name anyways. I just didn't take to authority very well.And I think it's because when you grow up in violence and you grow up, like constantly being told how to think or act, or, you know, being punished for trying to be yourself you know, authority just is there's conflicting there. Right. And so I just didn't really like being in group homes. And so I was talking to my social worker at the time.And I had a lot of bad social workers over the time as well. Like they just didn't really want to actually like sit with me or support me. They would just throw a food voucher my way, or throw a clothing voucher my way and then, or throw me in a group home. And that would be it, there was not really a lot of like dignity coming from conversations with social workers.And so when I talked to my social worker about it and I said, I think I'm ready to like, not be a part of the system anymore because I had been my whole life. Right. My mom. Adopted me out to my aunt and uncle. So I already had child welfare involvement from like a young age. And so for me, it just [00:55:00] made more sense to separate myself from the state, so to speak.So I did have to go through a court process. I remember it being fairly easy. Because at that point I was living with my biological mom. And I was, I think I was actually 16 when I emancipated cuz I was still using at that time. But I just remember the court process being really easy. And I remember just being really like, that's it like, there's like, okay.You're and, but I mean, it, it cost me some support, so I didn't get like any sort of food or clothing vouchers anymore. I didn't have any financial assistance from, from child welfare or anything like that. So there was like a whole side of supports that I, I could have probably accessed. I think now it's up until 23 is when you can access those supports.At that time it was probably like 18 or 19. So I still had a few more years of support, but for me it just made more sense to be independent. And I was so fiercely independent because my whole [00:56:00]life, everybody that was supposed to care for me, let me down. And so at that point I also felt like the system had also let me down.And so I just rather do the things on my own. And I've been doing things on my own ever since I've been, I left home at 14 and I'm still living alone and I'm, I'm very independent. I don't ask for a lot of help. It's hard for me to ask for help. So that's a, a thing I'm, I'm learning to work through now of like being comfortable asking for help.But for many years it was like, I just wanted do my own thing and getting out of the system was the best way to do that. So I'm glad I emancipated, but it's not the great move for everybody. Right? Like some people might need additional supports moving forward. And I don't know what it's like in the states.And I, and again, this was a number of years goes, I don't even know what the emancipation process would be like now, if it would still be as easy for somebody, but I think they just saw a traumatized child who was willing to do it on their own. And it was easier to wipe themselves clean of it, not having to deal with it anymore.Right. De'Vannon: Well, [00:57:00] you know what, here's the freedom. I am so glad that you feel free. And so it's so quintessential to our mental health and our emotional wellbeing. And I think I'm like you in terms of bucking against authority, you know, because I grew up in an abusive home too, that I went to the military, not to mention all the influence of the church and this every day I'm, I'm particular about whose authority I come under.Like, and I, it is a miracle. I even made it out of the military. It was an honorable discharge because it's not that I don't like being told what to do, but I'm very particular because a lot of people wanna control others and they're not really qualified or all that competent. And so that I agree like for, but you know, for a long time, I.Well shit. That's why I'm in business for myself because I really, I really don't like being told what to do, just fuck it. I don't. What, so you, you, you did say that you lived in group homes. What, what would you say to anybody currently? Who's like a youth living in a group home because I know that came with this own set of [00:58:00] struggles and everything like that.Just what advice would you give. Cheyenne: I think looking back there were some group homes that I probably could've actually thrived in if I would've just given it a little bit of more of a chance. And so I think it like really comes down to your own intuition. If a space doesn't feel safe, like talk to your workers, talk to your support systems about that.And I, I, I just like the streets seem like a better option, but it might not be right. Like a lot of stuff happened to me on the streets as well. That was violent and abusive. And I did a lot of violent and abusive things when I lived on the street as well. Like you're in survival mode all the time.Right. So I don't know if I have like, necessarily like advice. I would just say like, Just do what feels what's going to keep you safe. And just like, remember that you're loved, like somebody out there loves you who like, and it may not seem that way when you're in a group home, everything feels really isolating and scary.And like I have social anxiety. And so it was already [00:59:00] awkward enough to be in these spaces with new people every few weeks. And like other youth who are just as angry as you are, you know? Yeah. I just like, it's just about finding ways to keep yourself safe and recognizing that it's okay to sometimes ask for that help.And that not all authority or not all group homes are out to get. Yeah. Even though it fucking seems that way when you're a kid I really wish I would've had more of an understanding of the disabilities I have and how I respond to authority. You know, and even my attachments, my attachment disorders and stuff like, yeah.I, I, I think it's really important that we start to understand who we are. And I think if you're in a group home that can feel really overwhelming. And so I don'

Welcome to FASD Family Life, the podcast for families by families where we get real about raising children and youth with Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder. I'm your host, Robbie Seale, FASD Educator, advocate and mom of five children, three of who are diagnosed with FASD.  I know the struggle is real, but so is success.  Whether this is your first episode, or your 83rd, I invite you to settle in and join me for a cup of coffee as we learn about a very special resource in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Research & Resource Editions of the FASD Family Life podcast are designed to give you information on a variety of FASD networks, resources, training events, and conferences, as well as fascinating FASD studies for your participation and interest.SUBSCRIBE NOW to make sure you never miss an episode!In this Research & Resources Edition of FASD Family Life Research & Resources edition I am delighted to speak with Avnit Dhanoa, Youth Services Program Coordinator with the Elizabeth Fry of Northern Alberta. I met Avnit at a meeting of the Edmonton FASD Network in January 2022. I was intrigued by the efry programs she summarized at the EFAN meeting , and when she mentioned the STOP-Lifting program I knew I wanted to learn more.  https://www.efrynorthernalberta.com/G.I.R.L.S. Empowered and Strong (GES) is a program for teenage girls who want to address issues they are facing and become empowered to make strong and positive choices for themselves and their futures. The goal of this program is to provide girls, ages 12 to 17, with the skills and knowledge they need in order to make healthy life choices, thereby preventing future involvement in the criminal legal system. GES addresses the realities that teen girls face in their daily lives. The program is FASD friendly and is designed to be able to meet the unique needs of girls with this diagnosis while building emotional, intrapersonal, and interpersonal skills for all girls. https://www.efrynorthernalberta.com/girls-empowered-and-strong#:~:text=G.I.R,other%20important%20issues.For more information please contact:GES Program CoordinatorAvnit DhanoaOffice Phone: (780) 784-2200Cell Phone: (780) 904-8052     E-Mail: Avnit.Dhanoa@efrynorthernalberta.comEdmonton Fetal Alcohol Network (EFAN)https://edmontonfetalalcoholnetwork.org/Support the show

Kathy Tuccaro's story of Dreaming Big can change your life now inspires people to make the necessary changes in their own lives to improve their self-worth. She is passionate about personal growth and believes that anyone can change their circumstances and overcome their obstacles if they truly desire to do so. All her efforts and focus is about encouraging, inspiring, and motivating others that “Change is Possible” if only they would BELIEVE in themselves! She is a woman of great passion, vision and purpose and it is this combination that has led her from the “Dark Night of Soul” into the “Light of Success”! In addition to being a motivational speaker and Author, Kathy has her Nursing Diploma and worked on Surgical/Medical/Geriatrics units for 13 years.She also has her certificate in Occupational Health and Safety and works full time as a Heavy Equipment Operator in Northern Alberta, Canada.She drives a 400 tonne 797F Caterpillar Truck, a 208,000 litre (52,000 gallon) water truck up as well as a 24M Grader (the biggest one the world)She has always believed in dreaming bigger than the average population, and today she has proven it literally by driving “THE BIGGEST EQUIPEMENT IN THE WORLD!”

Retired USFWS pilot biologist, Fred Roetker, joins the DU Podcast from Fort Chipewayan, Alberta, deep in the Canadian boreal forest for a real-time update on progress and conditions encountered during the 2022 waterfowl breeding population survey. Although 2022 is proving to be one of the later springs in recent memory, boreal wetlands are in good to excellent condition and ducks are once again being counted across this diverse and massive landscape. www.ducks.org/DUPodcast

INTRODUCTION: Cheyenne Mihko Kihêw (they/them) is a Two-Spirit Indigi-queer, born and raised in amiskwacîwâskahikan (Edmonton). Inspired by their own lived experiences with meth addiction and street involvement in their teen years, Cheyenne has dedicated their life to community-based work. They were the first in their family to attend university, holding a BA in Sociology from MacEwan. Currently, they are the Community Liaison for Edmonton 2 Spirit Society, a role that affords them the privilege of incorporating many of their passions into their work and is supporting their own journey of cultural reclamation. Cheyenne is the current Two Spirit Warrior regional titleholder 2021/2022, alongside Rob Gurney. They are also the current Chair of the Board of Directors for Boyle Street Education Centre, their former high school to which they accredit much of their achievements. Cheyenne is unapologetic in their identity as a nêhiyaw, fat, and queer femme and lives loud and proud.E2S:EDMONTON 2 SPIRIT SOCIETY (E2S)amiskwacîwâskahikan ᐊᒥᐢᑲᐧᒋᐋᐧᐢᑲᐦᐃᑲᐣWe are an intergenerational society dedicated to the acknowledgment and support of Two Spirit and LGBTQQIA+ Indigenous people and their kinship circles. Our organization offers: Cultural Ceremonies Cultural Competency Training Education Workshops Land Acknowledgments Resource Tabling Sharing Circles Outreach & Referrals Socials & Events  INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): ·      Indigenous Life·      Deculturization/Colonization·      Residential School Scandal·      The Catholic Church's Role In The Torture & Death Of Indigenous Children·      The Indian Act·      Replacement Theory·      The Short Sightedness Of The Rich & Powerful·      Indigenous Ceremonies ·      Two Spirit Defined·      In Between Defined·      Indigi-queer Defined·      Indigenous Vs. Native American CONNECT WITH CHEYENNE: Website: https://e2s.ca/Cell: 587-385-9670Email: communityliaison@edmonton2s.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/edmonton2spiritsocietyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/edmonton_2_spirit_society/Twitter: https://twitter.com/e2s_2  CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonEmail: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Deculturalization: https://bit.ly/3am35bC·      Quannah Chasinghorse: https://cnn.it/3wIItTC·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o  https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ ·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino  https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org  INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Good day. Good day. Good day to everyone out there. Hello. Oh, you beautiful people. I love you. I bless you. I kiss you in the name of the Lord. Hallelujah. Today I am talking with Cheyenne Mikko Kyo, and this beautiful soul is the community liaison at the Edmonton two-spirit society, which is up there in Canada. . So I entered the two-spirit and Digi queer, who was born and raised in [00:01:00] Edmonton. And this episode, we're going to be diving deep into indigenous struggles.We're going to talk about the ongoing search for buried indigenous children up there in Canada. Uh, we're going to get into the Indian act and then the church has a role in all of the evil that has been done to indigenous people.Quite a ways back,please take a close list. Hello? Hello. Hello. Every fucking beautiful body out there. And welcome, welcome. Welcome to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. Hallelujah, tabernacle and motherfucking praise I have with me today. Shagun B O B go keel. Who is the community liaison for the Edmonton two society up in Canada. How the fuck you doing today, girlfriend?Cheyenne: I'm doing wonderful. Thanks so [00:02:00] much for having me so excited to De'Vannon: be here. Hell yeah, this has been a long time. Come in. It has out here. So tell us who you are. I'm super excited. Y'all we're going to be focusing on native American, indigenous peoples a day and getting some head and all of that. What all the different terms are the struggles, the persecution of our native American indigenous people.I'm part native American myself. And so as you can see, you are full blood. And so tell us who you are and what you I'm not Cheyenne: full-blood no, I'm not full-blood. So I'll just introduce myself in my indigenous language. So Cheyenne Mingo county and say godson I Ms. . So I said, hello, all my relatives.My name is Cheyenne NIGO, Q M, or amigo que equate, which is my ceremonial name. It means blood Eagle being and I am from [00:03:00] Edmonton up in treaty six territory in Canada. And I'm not full-blood indigenous, so I'm actually mixed. But I don't know my biological father. And so I have a whole half of my identity that I have no way to relate to.So I'm very focused on my indigeneity for that reason, because there's a cultural background that I'm missing in my life. And so it's really important for me to stay connected to the parts that I am aware of. And so on my mother's side, my maternal side I am from a tribe called the Woodlands Cree in Northern Alberta and treaty eight territory from a reserve called drift pal creation.I was born and raised here in Edmonton, just due to family stuff. And my, my grandmother raising her children away from the reserve very intentionally. And yeah, so I'm, I'm not full blood, but I'm half, not that, but all of that is blood quantum. Like if you have a drop in your, your, your indigenous.De'Vannon: Yeah. So you said she's a Woodland Cree, not to be confused with marble Cree, but[00:04:00]the multi-verse is huge. So you prefer they them, Cheyenne: I do. Yeah. And there's like a cultural reason for that. De'Vannon: What is it? What's the culture? Cheyenne: Well, I met, oh, it's broadly known as two-spirit. But within my, within my culture, cause two-spirit, we can talk a bit more about the intricacies of it. But two-spirit from my own understanding and learning my teaching from my nation.I am one of eight genders. And so that equation, which is part of my name, amigo Cahill, a quail that means like neither man or woman, but all of the genders in one. And so I use they them pronouns to honor that my culture and my gender are inherently tied to each other. And it helps me as a way of stepping outside that binary of man and woman and being a little closer to my cultural.De'Vannon: Okay. So then if someone says like how I did a few seconds ago, like, Hey girl, is that like the wrong? Well, Cheyenne: [00:05:00] I really liked like girl, like when it's like super sassy for me personally, and I can't speak for all, like two-spirit people. Cause obviously I'm just one person from one nation. But like for me, I don't mind like a sassy girl, but I low as being called lady or woman or ma'am or like inherently feminine ones because I have like the female body people like impose that on me.And so I will very quiet, like plays, they not a girl or not a ma'am, but thank you. But when it's like girlfriend, like that's like sassy enough that I I'm cool with De'Vannon: that. Yeah. The games we can get away with anything. So she likes her a good gay girl. Hey girl.Cheyenne: And if I'm in ceremony, like that's like the one spot too, where I'm like, if, if a, if an elder who's running the ceremony, he uses, he, him pronouns for me. That's how that person is seeing me in that ceremony. And so then that's, that's okay. I'm okay with that in a ceremonial context, within reason. De'Vannon: So when you say ceremony, okay.So is this like the Indian powwows that I used to go to where they've got [00:06:00] everything like that? It sounds like you're talking about some high spiritual person who's viewing you in a, through like a, an Oracle lens. So what, when you say ceremony would. Cheyenne: Yeah. So when I'm talking about ceremony so here in Canada, we don't tend to call ourselves Indians.That's like a very, more like American kind of way of speaking of indigeneity. But up here in Canada, our ceremonies, like particularly within my nation, again, I can't speak for all indigenous people because we're not a monolithic group. Right. We all have different teachings and ceremonial practices.But in my teachings a ceremony would be like, I think like a sweat lodge how else are ceremonial? But they've also kind of shifted into more of like a social gathering now. Other types of ceremony could be like a Sundance ceremony or a pipe ceremony a fasting ceremony, chicken dance ghost.There's lots of different kinds of ceremonies. De'Vannon: I know that's right. And we're going to get into lots of different kinds of things. So y'all heard her mentioned two-spirit [00:07:00] indigenous, you was saying the native American is kind of like, you know, an Americanization. The, the culture here. So so Cheyenne is going to break down to us like what two-spirit means in depth.What I wanna, I wanna, we're gonna find out that I want to know what in-between means in Digi queer, and is what the fuck, the differences between native versus indigenous and everything like that. Cause I don't want people looking at me fucking crazy when I address them. But before we get into that, I saw an article that came on on LGBTQ nation which is a great website to keep up with LGBTQ trends and they have a term called the culturalization and the article is talking about basically how.Education systems are low key whitewashing, native American indigenous children. They get them in there. They're cutting their hair as a different way. The things that they show them and everything like that, they're basically turning the native American, indigenous kids white and doing it undercover and have been getting [00:08:00] away with it.What do you think about. Cheyenne: Yeah, that's a big topic here in Canada right now. Because we have our own system of education that was imposed on indigenous children since the 18 hundreds. And that was the Indian residential school system here in Canada. And it was largely based off of the boarding schools that, that article that you're talking about.Highlights. I really recommend folks to go take a look at the article if you're not familiar with the process of deculturalization for students. So here in Canada, the, the idea was that if you took the children out of their home and put them into a school, you could disrupt control continuity. So what that means is you interrupt their learning of their traditional language, their belief systems you interrupt basically all of that cultural development that they would receive by living with their elders, living with their community.And that process in Canada was really, really, really violent. My own grandparents actually were in the residential school system. They both survived, but not without the long-term impacts [00:09:00] of that. So while it also does things like, you know, it helps you forget your language or helps you be ashamed of your indigeneity.Students were coming out of the schools with like sexual abuse, trauma, physical trauma. Some students didn't make it out of the school's life. And so that's where we're at now in Canada is the schools. They're starting to use ground penetrating radar to look into the school yards and finding unmarked graves like mass, unmarked graves, basically.And so of the, I think it's 136 schools here in Canada. They've only gone through a small portion of them, but many, many, many children are being found. And so actually I'm wearing a pin to. This orange pin here, this symbolizes the children who didn't make it home, that symbolizes all of the children who survived.And it's based off of a residential school survivor here in Canada named Phyllis Webb's dad. And she had gotten brought into the school with her little orange shirt. She was so proud and they took the school. The school took her shirt from her [00:10:00] and took away her pride and her dignity and replaced it with trauma.And so I do believe that that process of deculturalization is happening in the schools. And we say a lot now, like in Canada, the last school closed in 1996. But the process is still ongoing because you're seeing indigenous students face higher rates of bullying and suicide within schools than their non-indigenous counterparts.And if you add the like complexity of being queer on top of it, you're queer and indigenous you're like. You're just having like harder outcomes basically. So I think education is used as a way of really separating our students from their belief systems. And it's, it's, it's problematic to say the least, because as two-spirit people, we're, we're still trying to come back from the eraser that happened within Canada, the residential school system we've been here.So it's a hard topic to talk about, but yeah, apologies that I'm going to cough. I am still recovering from COVID. So, De'Vannon: honey, I'm glad you're alive. [00:11:00] Yeah. So I want to date, I appreciate your bonus and your willingness to talk about this difficult subject. I want to dig deeper into the deaths of these children.So let me be clear. The, the, so the kids are showing up in school. Are they getting murdered at the school or were they murdered, murdered somewhere else? Then they dumped the bodies at the school. Cheyenne: So historically the children were actually forced to leave their homes. There wasn't an option. So the RCMP, the Royal Canadian mounted police would come to the homes, take the children and bring them to the school.If the parents weren't going to give the children up, then the parents were imprisoned and the children were brought to school. So many children. Died trying to escape the schools. I'm trying to cross through Canadian terrain, which is obviously in winter, quite cold and harsh. And so was children died that way.But many children died in the schools at the hands of the priests and the nuns that were often running the school. So Catholic church, other denominations were running these schools across Canada. And stock was basically who [00:12:00] was incurring the abuse onto the children, but there was also a another level where the Canadian government authorized.Experimentation medical experimentation on the students, in the schools as well. So some students were being starved. Other students were having their nutrients kind of like being toyed with so that they could figure out how different nutrients impact the body. And they did that on the students, in the schools.So some students died just simply malnutrition not being fed enough or the conditions in the schools were, were quite terrible as well. Like, like quite deplorable you know, very drafty, no weather protection and the nurse, the, the, the nuns and the priests, they good, they were taken care of, but the children yeah, and, and a lot of sexual abuse too.And there's a lot of stories of priests impregnating young women in the schools and then the babies being taken and, and burned in furnaces. So those are bodies that will never recover. But some of the bodies are marked like some of the graves are. And you can find them in records, but a lot of the bodies [00:13:00] are not written or documented anywhere.And there are residential school survivors who never saw their families come out of the schools or saw their families die in the schools and, and know that their bodies will never be found. So it's, you know, a lot of it was at the hands of the people who were running the schools. De'Vannon: I really hate the Catholic church.Cheyenne: It's yeah, it's, it's a hard thing. De'Vannon: I, I, I don't really hate very many things in this life, but th the, then the destruction that churches, denominations of religions, cause this is just load some is the testable is one of the things that I cry out to God. I cry out against churches and denominations.I pray about this, you know, all the time, you know, because who else can really do anything about an organization say as the largest Catholic church or mega churches. So I pray to God specifically for him to do [00:14:00] something about these churches and these preachers that have gone book damn wild, drunk with power, and they have no accountability.They fear nothing. And and I suppose, I think, cause they have a lot of money or whatever the case may be. Don't know, but that, that that's that bullshit right there. It really, really pisses me off, you know, these priests nuns. And I'll tell you the megachurches again, you know, we're supposed to be, would go to these people for a sense of security and help, and everything is supposed to be all right.If it's wrong, everywhere else in the world is supposed to be right when we're in the house of the Lord or in front of somebody who's supposedly his representative or ambassador not getting raped, beat starved. You know, down here kicked out a church for not being straight or fired from volunteering or not being straight the way churches just handle people.I don't attack churches for like having money and stuff like that. Everyone else is already doing [00:15:00] that. I don't want to turn into the guy who's trying to control them, which is the problem I have with them as the way they want to control what the people. So if you want to make money, if people are silly enough to sit there and give it to you and keep buying your books, your regurgitated sermons, and all of that, okay, that's your, you ground, you selling something to another grown person that's on y'all with the abuse of the people that they're trying to conversion therapy, people trying to con you know, make people change to be accepted.And all of that is what I go after the church fourth, the way they treat people in that, that bullshit right there. What you're talking about is absolutely terrible. How, how many years back are these bodies being found? How long ago was. Cheyenne: Well, the first school was in the 18 hundreds, the ground penetrating radar.That was just over a year ago that they started doing this. So the first school was, I don't know the exact date. I apologize. But yeah, it was just last year that they did the first school. And then now where there's just funding happening for all of these different, smaller nations [00:16:00] to also start the process.But the last school closed in 1996. I was already like 10 years old at that point. Right. Like I was alive. If I would've grown up on the reserve, I could have gone to a residential school. I have friends who went to residential schools or went to day schools. Right. A lot of the elders that we work with went through this process as well.So it's fresh. It's, it's like, you think it's from the 18 hundreds, but it's, it's really not like it's, it's fresh in our minds and our hearts. De'Vannon: So these schools were on the reservation. They were not. Cheyenne: They weren't public. Some of them were day schools on the reserve where students just went in for the day and came back out.But the majority of the schools were on the reserve or near the reserve. Sometimes they would be multiple reserves attending one school. And like the earlier schools that we were developed, it's not like how Canada is now, where, you know, we we're, we're quite colonized at this point. And so there's a lot of settlements all over the country.Right. But at that point, Canada was largely empty land. Right. So the schools would be between reserves or settlements. [00:17:00] Yeah. And like they were weren't, they weren't necessarily public, like for non I don't, I'm not aware of non-indigenous students attending the schools unless they were inherently related to the church or the people running the schools.De'Vannon: So then I'm curious. So there was Catholic influence there. What history, how is the Catholic church in native American indigenous people intertwined in the first. Cheyenne: Yeah, well, because the government was working directly with the church, right? So the government developed a document in 1876 called the Indian act and the Indian act is still in progress today was still, still guided by this policy.And it basically the Canadian government gave themselves authority over indigenous peoples. So it determines that indigenous peoples are clearly incompetent of taking care of themselves there and colonized or uncivilized. We need to you know, eradicate them. Basically. They wanted to kill the savages.There's like documentation from the earlier government [00:18:00] of how they wanted to do this. And part of that process was in collaboration with the church. So having the church run, these schools was a way of, Hey, we're moving the government, right? They're not, they're having to provide more staff. But also that indoctrination process, right, because the Canadian government at that time, I was coming from Europe.And so a lot of what they did was based around their religion, very, very Eurocentric religious kind of ideologies that were running these political movements. And so that's kind of how it got intertwined. And there was like a really contentious history now with indigenous people and the church, because the church ran these schools for so long.And so people like my grandmother while she was alive, you know, I couldn't get her to go to a pipe ceremony with me. We didn't go to sweat lodges. She went to church, like she went to church religiously. She was in church every Sunday. I sang in the choir for like a few years before I realized, what am I doing here?Like this isn't for me. And I miss my grandmother. I love my grandmother, but I basically had to recently stop celebrating anything, tied to religion [00:19:00] holidays. Like I don't do Christmas. I don't do Easter. If it's tied to a religion I'm not interested. And that's a way of me honoring my grandmother.Because she was so religious, but that was like that cultural indoctrination, right? The religious indoctrination that she experienced from being in the schools for 12 years. Right. And she didn't talk about the abuse or the violence, but we experienced it in our family that was passed on to us. So I think that's why the religion aspect is tied to us.A lot of our indigenous peoples still honor religion in, in a way that makes sense for them. And that's up to them. We can't say you shouldn't do that because the, the church did this, right. It's a, you know, autonomous decision. But for me personally, as an indigenous person, I don't see how I could honestly honor a religion that caused so much harm in my family.That I'm still feeling the effects of that might generations beyond me will still continue to feel. De'Vannon: So I'm a little confused. So she, you started, you're telling me she was an avid church goer, but she was abused by the, by the church. Yeah. Cheyenne: Yeah. That's, that's how deep some of that trauma is. That's how deep [00:20:00] some of that pain is like.And like I say, hers, her, her experiences in the schools, she wouldn't talk about. She, she, she adamantly the only thing she talked about was the babies being thrown in the furnace basically. De'Vannon: But if, but if her pain came from the religious people, why would she still go to the religious place? Cheyenne: I wish he was alive.So I could ask her because that's something I've been struggling with my whole life. I don't understand how people who have this experience and their families can turn to the church for comfort or for kindness. And, and a lot of indigenous people who will celebrate in religion will like very adamantly speak up about it.Like, you know, they are very much, we had had experienced with an individual recently who works for a very well-known organization for a group called the Maytee, which is a group of indigenous peoples here in Canada. And at one point this individual said, you know, I'm not to spirit. I believe in God, I don't go to ceremony.And he was like in a space full of two-spirit people. And we were like, [00:21:00] what is happening right now? Like, it's so it, I wish I had the answer to that. I don't know. And I think that just goes to how deep some of, some of that internalization and that shame of being indigenous really goes, that comes from having those experiences that you do in the school.De'Vannon: No, At the end of the damn day, all we need is God. I believe in the Trinity. I'm not naive. I know not, everybody's going to believe in God, Jesus Christ in the holy ghost. And I don't really care. I just, but I can only say about me. And so and I don't think anyone's less than me or they're going to burn up and go to hell or anything like that.If they don't believe, like, I believe we just believe differently into story done. I say it all the time. I love hanging out with the Buddhist temple because I like being around other ball bitches. Like me it's fucking the brain. So they had great vegetarian food. So I flux and everything like that, but I'm clear on what I stand for.They don't try to make me worship that that day as Buddha statue they have in the temple, you know, that I don't have to bow to it or anything like that. It's a [00:22:00] very comfortable space and they don't judge me. I don't judge them. We just share thoughts. And so at the end of the day, Oh, I feel like only thing I need is God, you know, my personal relationship with him when I die and everything like that, it's just going to be him.There's not going to be a church. The stand before the judgment throne with me, there's not going to be a dogma or a doctrine or a choir at least not an earthly choir, you know, or anything like that. Do you know the, one of the main pillars of my ministry, Cheyenne, is to get people off of this church and religion and pass their preacher worship leader conference, going book, buying addiction that people have to these organizations and things like that.A lot of it is rooted in fear. They felt like they don't go to church. They're going to burn up and go to hell. And so then I tell these people, where did you get this belief from? Who told you that the person who wants you to keep coming to church? So, you know, I encourage people to do their own research across religions.[00:23:00]And especially the Hebrew Bible to learn how to read the original languages. I'm getting ready to do a show. I'm going to get really deep into exactly who in the fuck interprets the Bible, you know, and things likein it. And I'm like the masses are not represented. And so I don't blame you for saying, fuck Christmas, fuck Easter. You know, Christmas is just a greedy ass holiday buck, an Easter bunnies and chicken eggs. What the hell does that have to do with anything? And so I don't feel like we should have to have a holiday to remind us the worship price or to remind us of his sacrifice is better than nothing at Vanguard for the people who only go to church on Christmas and Easter for fuck's sake, it's better than nothing.You know, I, it was only, it's only been one. Tom. And my life that I have been to someone's house with this was when I was in the military and I wasn't able to come home for leave. [00:24:00] I think it was Thanksgiving where some were where the family who was running, this actually went around the table that acknowledged the reason for the holiday and gave us a chance to express gratitude everywhere else.I've been no matter whose house has been labor day, Memorial day, 4th of July, Christmas, Easter, new year's or whatever. It's just food, alcohol, whatever nobody ever stops to pray for the veterans who died to give you the holiday to say a prayer to Jesus or nothing is just consuming and consumption and more greed.And I don't sound bitter because this is the truth. Isn't, as I'm saying this, how many holidays festivals, people who are listening when you go for labor day, weekend, 4th of July, things that are centered around veterans dying, you know, so that you can have. The holiday. When do you ever give thanks to the veterans, the people who have died, when do you pray for the people who are in the military or anything like that?Do you donate to the veteran service organizations, the disabled American veterans, the DAV, or the American Legion? [00:25:00] What do you do on veteran holidays besides get fucked?Cheyenne: One Thanksgiving to the indigenous people who lost their lives so that you could have the land that you're on now. Right? Like the Thanksgiving is another one. Again, our Thanksgiving here in Canada is a little different because ours isn't centered around pilgrims and all of that, ours is centered around the harvest.And so we're getting thanks to the lens, the abundance that we're getting from the land. Whereas I think your Thanksgiving is based on cultural genocide, right? So it's a bit of a different I think I know there's a big push now for Thanksgiving to be shifted into. Right. I'm thinking more Columbus day as well as the other one.Both of those holidays, I think, are quite contentious in, in your part. Not so much here in Canada, but the two often get quite confused, right. There was no border prior to colonization. Right. That's and I guess that's where the American thing comes from. Yeah. De'Vannon: So yeah, so they're starting to call Thanksgiving [00:26:00] friends giving down here instead of Thanksgiving.I want to say maybe Joe Biden started that or something. You know, our current president. I'm not don't quote me on that, but I think something like that may have come out of the white house, but it's friends giving now. So we're not even calling it Thanksgiving anymore. It's over. It's done with and you have fuck Columbus.Y'all, don't have a fuck Columbus attitude up there. Cheyenne: Don't De'Vannon: do any shit at all. Okay. Cheyenne: We have other we have other like leaders, more of the political side of things, as opposed to like the explorers. So one of the big, like, fuck you people right now is John ate. McDonald's like, fuck that guy. He was candidate.Prime minister. And he was the one who signed a lot of those documents that took the children from their home that forced indigenous people to live this whole new way of being and knowing. Right. So, yeah, fuck that guy like, and Ryerson that's another one. Fuck that guy too. They recently had an event in, in Toronto and they [00:27:00] went to the Ryerson university and they took his fucking head off the statue.And that, that statue head now lives in an indigenous land camp where they're fighting for, for their land. Yeah, it's interesting times here in Canada, but yeah, we we've got different, different leaders that were like, no, fuck that guy. That guy sucks. Like, why are we honoring Johnny McDonald like that?Because the douche bag, he's the OG douchebag like,De'Vannon: oh, gee deuce bag. That's not a title we want. Cheyenne: I know, I think I'll pass on that title. De'Vannon: So, so colonization is something you've mentioned that. So that's basically like our deep, culturalization the way they're trying to turn the indigenous and native American kids. White, low key is colonization. It's the same thing, right?I Cheyenne: would say like, deculturalization deculturalization is like a process of decolonization, right? It's like it's a, it's a piece of the whole deep colonization process, if that makes sense. [00:28:00]De'Vannon: So have you heard of replacement theory yet? Cheyenne: I don't think so. De'Vannon: There's something that's happening down here right now.I'm going to send you a, since we're talking about the evil shit, white people. Right now this, if it's into the conversation, I wasn't going to bring this up, but we just had a shooting down here likely in the last couple of days, I want to say maybe Buffalo, New York or something like that. This fucking white kid went, took his ass online and research places where black people are known to be.If he took his time they were saying on the morning, Joe show on MSNBC this morning that he he went the day before to like the school or mall or church or whatever it was to case the place. And he went there a few hours before the shooting. And then he took out like 10 people. I think he killed like 10 people or something like that.And that's, that's an ongoing story, but you know, this is a white person in these, and he read the manifestos of previous serial of mass shooting people and stuff like that [00:29:00] before. So it was going on down here in the United States. We have all of these white people who feel like they're fearing that they're going to be replaced by everything.Not. And so this whole replacement theory that of nonwhite people should be eliminated in the white people should take over. But what do you think about that theory is as a thing and it's happening now? Cheyenne: Yeah, that my heart goes out to all the people that were impacted by that, but it's just so sad replay like that.It's just so ridiculous. There are a lot of white people in the world. White people have the monopoly on like so much, you know? I, I, yeah, I, it honestly blows my mind that people, I wonder how somebody gets to that point and I have empathy for that person in that he is so wrapped up in this delusion that's like basically just guided by racism, right?Like just, just call it what it is. It's a hate crime. He was a white guy, intentionally targeting a black [00:30:00] community. Right. Like if you're that diluted about skin color, like melanin, like you just have more melanin in your skin then than him. Like, I don't understand. Yeah, I honestly, I'm a little, I'm a little out of words for that one, because it's just, so it's just so out there, like replace in theory, it's.It feels like it's a direct attack on critical race theory, right? Like it's like almost like the, the extremist alternative to critical race theory. But it's like obviously going in the wrong direction. De'Vannon: Well, you know, the Republicans are behind that sort of thing, even though they don't want to say it because that same guy who wouldn't shout of all these people, like I think a year ago he had, he was in a mental health institution for a reason.And there is a law that they could have used for ban him from buying a done and they didn't do it. So he had illegally purchased gun that he modified using some tools from his dad's shed. But the point is somebody who was, who are they? Mental health patient [00:31:00] was allowed to legally purchase a gun who has now killed people and see the white Republicans here don't want strict gun laws.Cheyenne: Right. That's a whole other conversation. We could do a whole podcast on just that. De'Vannon: So y'all, don't hear her for like Democrats and Republicans in Canada. What do you Cheyenne: have? Yeah, like liberals and conservatives, which is like basically the same thing. Like a lot of our leaders. Have, you know, models off of American Republicans.The province that I live in Alberta, we have a premier. His name is Jason Kenney, and this is me taking off my work hat and putting on just my own personal hat because it's nonpartisan. Jason Kenney is also a douchebag and he doesn't really care about much of anybody. So his handling of the pandemic has been terrible the way he honors he's just very fake kind of person, but.Very much like a mini Stephen Harper who was a prime minister and here in Canada for many years, very conservative. And [00:32:00] that individual is very in with a lot of the Republicans in the states. So you know, a lot of our laws here we're, we're really curious about what's going to happen with the overturning of the row because that could also trickle up here in Canada.A lot of what happens in the states impacts is impacted in Canada. And you wouldn't think, but again, borders are imaginary, right? And Canadians aren't that far removed from American politics, unfortunately. De'Vannon: Oh for fuck's sake. I know, I think about this Cheyenne so much, you know, the way white people greet people of every race, but it seems to be heavily white, you know, because the rest of us, you know, we don't, we're not coming from generations of wealth and shit like that, you know?So we're not so comfortable that we have time to go fucking with other people. You know, we're still, we're trying to keep, get, keep our own shit together. This is a comfort and luxury. That's typical for like white people. They've been financially comfortable, so long, medically taken care of [00:33:00]accepted everywhere they go.So they have time to try to attack other people and take them down. When you're trying to build up yourself, your family, your energy is going towards, self-improvement not towards trying to tell a woman what to do with her body or try, you know, not trying to tell people they can or can't get married. We don't have the time.We're too busy trying to survive and come up ourselves. Cheyenne: We're just trying to survive literally. De'Vannon: But in the grand scheme of eternity, You know, the Lord said, what, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and the lose his soul. These people act like that judgment day is never going to come for them or is not going to come at all.Maybe they can build a colony on Mars and skip out on the return of Jesus, you know, can kind of watch it from afar or whatever the fuck they think they're going to be able to do with all these space missions and shit. But but you know, the way they add it has no eternity in the, in the scope. In the perspective, there isn't no eternity, you can't treat people the way these white [00:34:00] people treat people and think you're going to die and have a peaceful afterlife.So it's shortsighted. If I was the devil, I would totally try to trick people into being racist. And I'm a thoughtfulness and hateful in any way, shape or form. And to get them to focus on the things of this. You have rich people who are stepping on people to get even richer. Well, bitch, you can already buy whatever you want.Why the fuck do you want more money? Even if you have to hurt people to get it, you know, it's shortsighted. So you might get all of that here, you know, and you die. And you'd be like the Richard Guy in the Bible, you know, who turned away the people. And then he died and went to hell, you know, what is the point?You know, you can't take it with you. Why so much struggling in this life on things that are going to be temporary anyway. Cheyenne: Yeah. And so much disregard for the humanity and in your peers around you, right? Like at some point money, this overrides so much common sense. [00:35:00] Ridiculous. Yeah. Capitalism. De'Vannon: It's just foolish it testifies against them that they already have it.You know? And then I'm gonna say this about the mega churches and then we'll get into the definitions of things. You know, the book of Jeremiah it It speaks about how, let me see specifically, I can't think of the damn chapter. It's like Jeremiah 21 or 22. And it talks about how God is angry with pastors who, who dismiss people or who just keep on plodding along with their success.And if they lose a member or a sheep or, you know, they hurt people and they don't go to try to make it right. You know, you know, just treat them as collateral damage, you know, just, you know, just a part of doing business. You can't save everyone, but the Lord is not that way. He wants you to stop the whole.To go and get that one loss sheet, not [00:36:00] just keep on trucking along, you know, writing more books and more sermons than selling more music, more worship albums and all the stuff that they do and more tapes and expanding your media empire and getting richer. But you know, you have people, you have churches have caused damage to people.They don't apologize for it. They don't do anything to make it. Right. And that is not okay. Cheyenne: Well, we just got an apology from the Pope. I don't know if you follow that. So there was a group of delegates first nations Maytee and Intuit. So those are our free, like overarching indigenous groups here in Canada, first nation, maintain and unit.And then there's different subgroups within those it's gets complicated. There's lots of indigenous people. Anyways, we had done. Go to the Vatican recently, it was all over the news where they basically we're going to bring their stories to the Pope. It was like kindness. The way Canada has a big history of apologizing for things that they do.You know, they've apologized for many things over the years. The residential schools and all there were all sorts of stuff. [00:37:00] But these delegates were hoping to have, you know, some recognition, not only from the Pope, like not only an apology, but the Pope and the Vatican are holding onto documents. And those are what we were hoping to get was these documents, as well as all of the ceremonial items that were taken from indigenous people when our ceremonies were illegal here in Canada, which was for many years.And so none of those items that were stolen were returned, the documents weren't released, but the Pope did make an apology. But if you read the apology. The language that he used was very specific. He doesn't apologize for the church's involvement. He apologizes for certain individuals activities.And that is a cop-out because it's a way of absolving the entire church, including himself as the Pope, from what happened here in Canada. So apologies are one thing, but like, we need action, right? Like why isn't the Pope here in Canada and he's supposed to be making a trip actually in the coming, I think year it's supposed to be stopping here.It had been Ted, but why isn't he going to these graveyards? Right? Why isn't he going to these quote unquote [00:38:00] schools? We're calling them schools, but they're like concentration camps. Why isn't he going to these, these, these grounds and seeing the bodies in the graves? Why isn't he helping dig? Do you know what I mean?Like, he's never going to do that cause he's a million years old, but that's besides the point is that we got this like apology, but even the apology itself is so convoluted. If from a linguistic perspective, if you break apart the apology, it doesn't mean anything. It's, it's nothing, it's nothing. So yeah, and, and there was a specific.Around two-spirit people like where's the apology for us in particular, right? Because there is a bit of a different impact for two-spirit people specifically here in Canada, De'Vannon: the poke and go fuck himself. Like I literally don't give a damn about the Pope, the Catholic church, and none of that idol worshiping convoluted, religiously diluted and watered down.And Krokus shit that the Catholic church is, you know, just, just, I mean their [00:39:00] amount of like angel worship and stuff like that. Is just, okay. You know, the Hebrew brothers tells us not to pray to angels and when angels would come only to, there's only two names of angels in the typical recorded Bible and that's Michael and Gabriel, the other angels did not give their names.And so I don't know where these people get all of these angels names from and everything like that. And they're praying all of these saints. I mean, offering prayers up to everyone, but God, and I'm all like, Okay. Okay.Jesus said pray to him and him alone. Not the Virgin. Mary, not St. Jude, not Felicia, our trough on Ark Kendrick or whoever else you, you who fucking dead, you know? Cheyenne: Yeah. When I pray, I always say I pray to my ancestors. I prayed to the creator as well, but I don't really know who created me or what that is, [00:40:00] but I have ancestors and I know that they were real and I know that they lived because I'm here and I'm alive.And so that's who I pray to. Cause they're still, they're guiding me and supporting me and loving me. Yeah, I think prayer can be a very like personal thing. Right. And you're right. Like a lot of times it is watered down. Do your prayers before bed, like what does that even mean? Or where's the intention, right?De'Vannon: I agree with what you're saying. I get from a native American perspective, it reminds me of a lot of how it is in Asia, Nina, where they pray to their ancestors, do what you gotta do. But I'm saying if you're going to claim a division of Christianity and tie directly to the Trinity and the Trinity has told you to create to no one, but the father, then you're doing wrong.You, you know, what you're doing is not Christian strictly in the religious I'm talking about in the E and E in the east and Asia are not, you know, Christians specifically like say at the Buddhist symbol, when I go there, they have like a whole altar and everything to the ancestors and stuff. Okay. Pray to your ancestors, but you're not [00:41:00] claiming to follow Jesus Christ in the first place.I would think if you're going to follow him, they act like who you're following, but the Catholic church as a whole. Hodgepodge the whole, then the, all the fucking rules they have. 'em all like we wouldn't have fuck came up with this. And so everyone went to the next shit changes with the wave of his hand.I'm all like at each on of them is supposed to be infallible or whatever the fuck, I don't know, go to HBO. Max, do law, sexy ass. There's a series on that. He called the young Pope and the new Pope. It is interesting as fuck. And everybody, all the down to the poker, smoking cigarettes and shit, and people are fucking everything.And they're really telling you what life is like behind the Vatican and the police in the Vatican and the political scandals and the bullshit and the secrets and the priests fucking, the alter boys and everything like that. Yeah, it's all in there. That shit is good. [00:42:00] Okay. So tell us two spirit. You've talked about it.You're going to go through the definition it's defined to spirit go. Cheyenne: I can't. So the word two-spirit the idea of being two-spirit is that it is generally an indigenous person who is part of like who is gender or sexually diverse. And so the term two-spirit actually is really just a placeholder term.It was developed in it actually came to an elder. Her name is Myra Laramie and she had a pipe vision. So she was in a ceremony, lifting a pipe and you know, saying her prayers, whoever she praised to, I don't know. But in her prayers, she, you know, was asking for some guidance because she was starting to do this work with indigenous queer and trans people and being like, how can we unite us?Because the impacts from residential schools meant that our community was really divided. Folks were like, you know, internalized homophobia, internalized [00:43:00] transphobia. So it was a very underground movement. And there was just, you know, they needed more. And so she received this word. It's an initial, initial nob bay more Winward and it's a niche money dialogue, and that's literal translation is two-spirit.So she brought this that was in 1996. And she brought that term to or 1990, sorry, I'm getting my dates wrong. Anyways. She brought it to the native American gay and lesbian conference. It was their third annual one in Winnipeg, and there was a number of queer and trans indigenous leaders who I look up to now as a two-spirit person.But folks like Barbara brew is Beverly Little thunder and Albert McCloud. And these individuals gathered at the conference and were like, we need a term that helps us to unify our. It is a term that folks can use while they're reconnecting to their own indigenous languages. And it's like, basically something that is there for the [00:44:00] youth, right?Like what is, what is, what can we do? And she said, well, you know, I had this pipe ceremony, like I had this vision and niche money dog is the word that came to me. And so they kind of decided as a group that this would be a term that they would start using. Recognizing that really what we want folks to do is reconnect to their own indigenous language because that's where you start to get into the complexities of what it means to be two-spirit within your own cultural identity.So when I say that, I can't define it. It's because my teachings as a Cree person are going to be different as somebody who's done a Stony SU Navajo, right? Like, so what being two-spirit means to me comes with an own, my own cultural definition. And so that's going to look differently to different people in different nations.And it really depends on how far into your journey you are, how connected. And you are to your community, your culture, your teachings, but also recognizing that a lot of these teachings have been impacted by the residential school system, by the church. Right. And so you have teachings that even seep into our ceremonies now, right.And that's a whole other, we can, we can get into that topic, but so that's kind of how the term [00:45:00] two-spirit was. Developed. And it's, you know, that native American gay and lesbian conference is still happening. They're going to have the 35th annual conference this year and it's now called the international two-spirit gathering.And we hosted it. They had been to two spirits society hosted it last year. So it was really nice to be part of that little piece of history. There's also a lot of roots within HIV advocacy. That that group was originally doing back in the nineties. And so, yeah, it's been a bit of a journey, but really there was a term that was being used because when the settlers arrived, there was a really negative term and it's called Burdoch.And that was a term that was imposed on any gender and sexually diverse person. And it was used as like a, as a slur. So they were like, how do we get away from this damn slur? How do we get a word that's going to empower us and, and support the growth of our community? So that's kind of where a two-spirit spirit comes from.De'Vannon: Oh, shit. I Cheyenne: know even just that one question alone. Good luck. De'Vannon: Well, the, the spectrum, all of that, but maybe you let me have it. And that's [00:46:00]what dos, so when you say this, this lady who received the term two spirit and a vision was raising Piper, are you telling me she was smoking and getting high or something?Was she smoking out of the pipe? Was that, is that what Cheyenne: it is? Yeah, we don't like throw like PCP or whatever in our pipes. Like, again, I don't know what she does in her culture. She might use drugs in her, in her ceremonies. I don't know, but generally a pipe ceremony a pipe is a sacred piece and a tobacco is a medicine in our culture.And so when we put the tobacco tobacco into the pipe or communicating with creator, we're communicating with our ancestors, we're setting an intention in the circle and anybody that's in that circle, you're, you're unified together. And it's really just a way of bringing your prayer. Up and out, and as you smoke, you're inhaling that medicine and you don't have to inhale.You can just hold the pipe to your heart or to your heads. But it's just the process of being in a circle with each other in a ceremony with each other is really important. De'Vannon: That's sounds interesting. [00:47:00] Sounds very sincere, has a very sincere spirit about it. So you hear people like how Cheyenne is talking about.The LGBTQ a to S conferences and things like that. I don't, you know, there may come a time. I guess some conservative people might listen to my show. This is not a conservative show by any stretch of the fucking imagination, not even the least, but it is open to people who might be interested in ulterior or alternative perspectives other than their own.So you see not everything about the gay culture is whatever it is. That's bad about us, that they think we're not just having origins and shooting up crystal meth and taking it up the ass all the time. You know, there's conferences, there's intelligent things that we do. We contribute to society. You know, I say that specifically because when I got kicked out of Lakewood church in Houston, Texas, we're not being straight.Once they found [00:48:00] out, you know, my MySpace page that I was hanging out with Montrose in the gay district and Houston, the lady from who was over the kids, quiet. I'll never forget her fucking words, that fucking cunt. And and I only use con if it's really warranted and she's a fucking cunt and she was kicking me out, she was all like referring to the gay district of Houston.She was like, you can't be doing that. Hanging out there with those people.Wait, wait, what the fuck do you think we're doing? Oh, wait, you have never been okay.Cheyenne: And it's common here too. Like with specific, like, particularly with the two-spirit community a lot of that, like stigma and shame that people experienced and learned from the residential school system is like now in our own communities. So the work that we're doing at Edmonton two-spirit society, Is really trying to reconnect to our own indigenous communities because the two S [00:49:00] LGBTQ community, they, they honor us.They respect us. They brought us in, right. Like we don't have to justify ourselves as much people don't understand. So there's still a lot of learning that has to happen. But in indigenous basis, they're like, well, like there's, these are new teachings. This two-spirit doesn't even mean anything. It's a new term.You know, and like, like those you're just gay. You're just trans like, you know, there's like almost like an alienation of us within our own indigenous spaces. And that's like that whole residential school piece, that's still coming from religion really. De'Vannon: Okay. So explain to me the difference in between native American and Indian.Cheyenne: Yeah. So I use the term native American partially because the term American is a colonial word. The idea that America is these three separate areas. Cause I also include south America as part of the America's right. We use the term turtle island. And so turtle island is basically Canada [00:50:00] United States and all the way down from the top to the tip that's turtle island.And so we use that there's there's stories and beliefs around that, that I'm not going to get into very cultural stuff. But you know, turtle island the fact that we're from this land. Predates the people who came and brought the term America to us. Right. And so here in Canada, a lot of people will say native or, or indigenous first nations, Maytee it?They don't really use native American up here. And I think that's, again, that's that, that separation of Canada versus America, right? Like we don't see ourselves as, as American we're Canadian. And so a lot of people, I can't speak for all indigenous people. Obviously I'm one guy, like I'm just one person.But for me personally, that's how I perceive it. Is that like, I'm not from America, I'm from the land I'm from, I'm from this space. This is my home. And so I'm, I'm indigenous to this land. I'm from this land, this land is mine. And so I don't see myself as an American or Canadian even I'm I'm, I'm Cree first and foremost.I'm [00:51:00] Nikki out. That's that's the Cree word. How we say in the metalanguage De'Vannon: NICU, here's the people who know exactly who the fuck they are. No question was in your voice. You said. I know who the fuck I am.Cheyenne: I'm I'm so grateful that I grew up in Canada of all the places in the world. I didn't grow up knowing war. I didn't grow up knowing, like I grew up in a home that was very violent. I grew up with abuse and, and not having a lot of money, but, you know, I was never starving. I didn't have to struggle for water.You know, like I don't have to there's things that like, that I'm privileged. I carry a lot of privilege being born in a country like Canada. And I honor that, and I recognize that, but I also honor and recognize the flip side of that, that being indigenous in Canada. Is meaning growing up in violence, that means you were born with grief because of the whole history.Right. And we don't have a say in [00:52:00] that. It wasn't my choice. It wasn't my decision to grow up with that pain and the violence in my family. Right. And that's something that I'm actively working against to, to break that cycle and to, to live in what we say a good way. And yeah, so I, I, it's taken a long time to know who I am and I'm still on that path.I'm still on that journey, but I can say it with confidence, like, yeah, I'm, I'm indigenous and I'm, and I'm out of De'Vannon: that. I own that. So indigenous is the purest. Form because when native American has the American in it, and what I'm hearing you say is, well, we not American because we were here first. So indigenous is really the purest of the two.Yeah. I Cheyenne: don't know purist. I don't know if that's the word that I would use, but for me personally, that's how I, and again, you might talk to a different indigenous person, like, especially in, in America where they often refer themselves to Indian, like Indian is, is a, is a word that's owned and used. And I don't personally understand why they use that, particularly elders.I think he was not in the states. Here that's like a slur. Like it's like, you know, the Indian act like it's literally a part of our history that [00:53:00] is still controlling us, still defining us. Right. So like, I'm literally. In engulfed in Canadian politics just by being born, because I'm part of that document.My life is guided by that document. Right. So Indian here has like a negative connotation. We don't have typically use it. Native is like as a, a very common one, but I think indigenous is, is more and more being used. De'Vannon: Okay. Tell me what is in between me. Cheyenne: Yeah. So in between. Speaking for my own personal context.Cause I can't speak for all two-spirit people. And also recognizing that I'm not an elder or an old carrier the in between is just kind of how I've always seen myself. So we actually have eight genders in my culture. And you know, one of those genders is the in-between people. The test you went and walk and the tests you went and walk are a group of people who can like walk between men and women's worlds.You know, but they're there in the center of it. And so my whole life, I was like, I don't feel like quite like a man. [00:54:00] So quite like a woman, I didn't have terms for gender growing up. I always kind of knew. I was like, like queer. Like I was, I was bisexual at 14. Like, you know, I was doing nothing. Now I identify as like, if I use a colonial term it's more pansexual, right?Like I've, but I never had language for gender growing up. And because I didn't grow up in my culture, our family was so impacted by the residential school system that we didn't grow up, going to ceremony. We went to like powwows and round dances, but I didn't grow up on the land. I don't know how to hunt.I don't know how to like, you know, like I, I'm not a pipe carrier. I don't do any of these things. I'm just learning. And I'm just learning my traditional language now. But like, historically I've always felt like I'm just like in this, in this in-between space, I don't know how else to describe it. Like, and I was also adopted at a young age, so it was adopted by my biological mom's biological sister.So I was raised by my aunt and uncle, and that's where I love them. We've come past this now, but that's where a lot of the violence that I was raised with came from them. And so my whole life I've been between my biological mom's family and my [00:55:00] biological aunt's family. And I've always felt like that in between person.So when I started to go. Path of cultural reclamation and learning about my indigeneity from a Cree context. And I learned that there was a gen, like there's a whole group of people that are honored for being in between of, of everything. And if you think of in Cree culture, we, we honor the circle, right?Does the circle of life, the sun, the moon, we all know the circle. And so the in-between person is kind of in the center of the circle and it's not like a power thing. It's not like a privilege thing. It's just a holding the balance. Right. And you need to have somebody there holding it all together.So that's kind of, for me, where it comes from being an being part of the in-between. But I think it really kind of is other people might have different perspectives of that. De'Vannon: Okay. Thank you for that breakdown. The last definition I need from you is individually. Cheyenne: Yeah. Okay. So when did you clear as another one of those ones?So not all indigenous two-spirit or, sorry, let me start again. Not all indigenous people who identify as queer or trans are two-spirit and not all two-spirit people [00:56:00] identify as spiritual sense, right. It really is a very personal process and it really does depend on what your cultural teachings are and how you carry yourself.And so indigent queer is another way of folks who maybe don't feel tied to that two-spirit term indigent queer as a way of honoring their queerness and their indigeneity. So it's just the two terms put together. I often include trans folks and other gender diverse folks within that label of queer, but you know, it doesn't always fit so into, to queer and trans is kind of another thing.It's just, you know, colloquial language that we use when talking about. And I think it's just kind of fun to saying, did you queer like, oh yeah, De'Vannon: I'm thankful for all of the variety, you know, so no one's left out and, you know, new terms of being. All the time. And so this, the beauty in this variety is something conservative assholes will never understand because they don't have happiness residing inside of their hearts.Cheyenne: Yeah. And that diversity, I think is really beautiful. Like I say, when I learned that there were eight genders in my, in my culture that like there's so much [00:57:00] diversity and that, that alone in those teachings it, it it's really empowering and uplifting to know that diversity is honored in my culture.And as I was learning about like our indigenous language, I'm still very new in learning my language. But as I was learning Nikki hallway, when the, the Cree language I was asking about kinship terms because kinship and family is really important in our community. And so there's words for like mother and father that are similar to aunt and uncle, but there's also kinship terms for honoring diversity in relationships.There was like kinship terms for multiple partners. And as a polyamorous person, I'm like even the diversity of how I love is honored in my language. And that's beautiful to me. So I love diversity. I, and I'm so glad. De'Vannon: You know, culture, this is not, you know, they embrace, you know, various sexual expressions Cheyenne: inherited.I mean, so I think like yeah, I, again, I can't speak for every nation [00:58:00] because we're not a monolithic group. And so I can only speak from a CRI perspective and from my own personal learnings. Diversity of so far. And, but there is an individual, his name is Harlan Pruden, highly recommend you look into his work.He's done a lot of research around language, indigenous languages around the world, not just in turtle island, but around the world that honors gender diversity. And there's over 130 unique terms for gender in different nations around the world. And that for me is like, again, beauty is that that diversity has always been there.And I think even though that's talking more specifically about gender, I think we can look at it from a sexuality perspective as well, because if you're in a gender split a particular gender role or filling a gender role in your, your community, but you're also representing as a different gender, right?Like if you're a born male and y