Economics & Strategy Podcast

In this episode we're gonna talk about data science! Lots of data science. To help, we welcome double demon and professional in the field, Ian Burke. Ian works in consulting and has a front row seat helping a wide range of clients solve complex business problems using data science as his tool. Consultants often engage with clients across a variety of industries. In doing so, they can play an important role through their learned understanding of industry standards & best practices and by helping apply technological advancements and innovative strategies that elevate industries. Ian is certainly moving the needle on both those fronts.  Listen in to hear how he does it.

Say Hello to Winny Lucas. Winny is a long-time member of the DePaul community as a student, teacher, and staff member and works at Stanford University. She joins us this month for a conversation on immigration, curiosity, creativity in a technical world, and education; lots of education! As a young woman, Winny left Shanghai for a full-ride scholarship at DePaul and ended up being part of an important transformation of this university. Along the way she accumulated three graduate degrees and a lot of experience in the digital cinematic arts, where she still works today. She is a prime example of luck being a matter of preparation meeting opportunity, and that gratitude is a choice. I'm a fan!  Listen in!

This month we have 2020 MBA alumnus Anthony Wojtal, Budget Manager at Chicago Public Schools (CPS). Anthony leads the budget team for the country's third largest school district and after 12 years has a veteran's perspective to offer. CPS delivers a public good and, as such, must serve everyone in its district equally, without exclusion. For this reason, it's a fool's errand to compare them to private firms that make such choices to maximize profit. So, how does CPS focus its organization when they cannot choose the services they offer, or customers they serve? The answer, an endless pursuit of operational efficiency with the guidance of a strong mission. Listen in to hear how, year after year, CPS delivers more with less using the most common approach there is, efficiency.

Our February edition of the Economics & Strategy Podcast hosts 2020 strategy alumna Julia Weigard, Director of Network Transformation for NewGround International. NewGround is a design and build firm with a strong focus on retail financial institutions. One of the most tried and true strategies in business is to build strength in one space – whether geographic or product space – and expand slowly into adjacent and related opportunities. If done well, this can compound your initial strength and, potentially, create economies of scope for your firm; a rare but significant competitive advantage. Listen in to hear Julia discuss her work and how she's been doing her part to achieve that.   A great listen for sure!

It's a cold January in Chicago but we're happy to have MBA alumnus Matt Robins on for a conversation on technology sales.  Matt works with NetApp's AWS Alliance team and has spent his entire career in technical sales. He tells us why "sales is hard" but also how his  business strategy & decision making concentration focused his efforts. Time is a finite resource, so using it more efficiently is a sure path to better outcomes. He also shares how getting his MBA was so valuable in helping him distinguish good opportunities from bad, see internal management decisions through a different lens, and understand how changes in pricing models, like software subscriptions, can be a rare win-win.   Have a listen!

For the holiday season we are joined by MBA alumnus Michael Kremer, Vice President of Marketing for the American Concrete Pipe Association. In this wide-ranging discussion, Michael shares knowledge gained over a 20+ year career in marketing, and how luck played a part in his story. The role of luck in life and business is often overlooked or underweighted. Many fall victim to this fallacy - myself included. However, luck rarely arrives for those not prepared to see it or capitalize on it. That's the role of strategy; to prepare for and navigate towards the range of opportunities most likely to present themselves. So, how do you prepare to meet luck with gratitude? Listen in.  

This month, Marty Friel joins us for our second Check In episode in this podcast series. Marty is a MS-EPA graduate and veteran financial advisor with Ameriprise Financial and his original episode aired on 3/9/21. In that episode, Aaron Pagel hosted Marty for a great conversation on how and why he pursued this career and what strategy is responsible for his success. Here we take the chance to review Marty's progress and focus in on how growth, and the challenges that come with it, have impacted his work. Marty gives us some sage perspective on how he manages growth and updates on what advice he might give others seeking to join him in his chosen field.  It's full of great knowledge and wisdom from someone who has been in the arena for quite some time.   Give it a listen.

Edith Freeze is a Community Scientist at Northwestern University's Fienberg School of Medicine and a fierce champion of environmental rights. Her career is the product of endless curiosity, a thirst for education, and hustle. Her passion for environmental issues comes directly from her experiences growing up in Ecuador and a reverence for her Andean Indigenous roots. This double demon joins to explain how she balances her work as an empirical researcher in healthcare with her long-standing advocacy for environmental rights. These two parts both complement and overlap each other and allow her to make contributions is ways that may not be possible without traveling her unique journey.    Give it a listen.

Josh Dickey is an experienced finance professional, DePaul MS-EPA alumnus, veteran of the Federal Reserve in Washington DC and our guest this month. Josh has great stories to tell about his career, time at the Fed, and current work at the fuel cell manufacturer Hyzon Motors. Hyzon focuses on producing zero-emission heavy duty trucks; a nascent market with huge potential. Like many new markets, though, the path ahead isn't always crystal clear. How do you get where you want to go, when the destination doesn't exist yet? Hyzon has a solid strategic plan to build around its core fuel cell technology & expertise that maintains flexibility, leverages strong IP, and fixed costs, and can provide significant scale economies if or when this market blooms. Listen in to hear how they're doing it. 

Our guest this month is Nuna Becic. Nuna is the embodiment of resilience, effort, and passion! Qualities earned from life experience as an immigrant, mother, MBA, and marketing professional. She currently handles strategic alliances at Logitech and has an interesting story of getting there. This story includes terrific role models, some luck, and a lot of hard work. A LOT! Her current role uses her business strategy concentration to help Logitech create mutually beneficial strategic alliances that open new markets, leverage firm advantages, and efficiently fill market gaps. Any business alliance brings risk, but Nuna serves as a point of continuity to maximize the benefits while minimizing any risk. Listen in to hear how?

2024 summer break brings our first guest with a B.A. in Economics Ryan Polak. Ryan is Associate Director for Purchasing at Bell Flavors & Fragrances; a developer and manufacturer of ingredients in many consumer products who sits in the upstream market of the consumer product makers. Clients rely on Bell's scientific expertise to be successful, and their food scientists rely on Ryan to deliver raw materials at scale and on budget. That requires him to constantly gather market intelligence on who has what, where, how much of it and at what price. Unfortunately, there isn't just one answer to that question and that keeps him very busy. Listen in to hear how.

June is part 2 with Luke Balderson and a great discussion on leadership and organizational culture. We explore how Luke made the connection between these two interdependent concepts and how they create sustainable business success. The servant-based leadership model discussed here begins at the top and requires discipline to scale and maintain. However, done well, this model, of selflessly developing and enabling talent, creates a self-sustaining culture in its likeness and the benefits are significant. These human and organizational benefits become assets that, from a resource-based view, provide a competitive advantage hard for others to overcome. Treat your people well, I think I've heard that before?

For May, we begin a two-part interview with Business Strategy & Decision Making alumnus Luke Balderson. This part 1, dives deep into Luke's multidecade career in the far reaching and fascinating industrial gases industry. Luke is a composed, experienced, and highly capable executive in a sector that demands clear thinking and strategic insight. These skills were honed by a remarkable father, a natural inclination to listen and learn, and an education that enables him to synthesize information into a strategic framework. Success in business necessitates understanding the value proposition for your customers, employees, and suppliers, and this can only be accomplished through curiosity and active listening! Interested? Give it a listen.

For Episode 51, MS-EPA graduate Roxy Kozyckyj joins us. Roxy is Senior Director, State Government & Regional Affairs for the advanced medical technology association AdvaMed and has spent most of her career in healthcare policy, from advocacy, to intern, to analyst, capitol hill fellow, and finally lobbyist. This experience gives her the ability to see how policy goals that serve everyone, require working, step-by-step through the interested parties. Roxy openly admits game theory plays a role in her work and backward induction seems to fit well. Think of it this way, start with a policy goal, navigate backwards solving each preceding step, the resulting path theoretically achieves the desired outcome. Sounds strategic to me. Give it a listen. 

It's the end of winter term, and we're talking insurance; you'll be surprised by what you hear. Andrew Zarkowsky, MBA 2018, is Technology Industry Practice Leader for the insurance giant The Hartford and specializes in underwriting technology firms. In this episode, Andrew explains what's unique about insurance for technology firms and shares how today's insurance companies rely on technology, data, and research to forecast risk and prevent client losses. Andrew also has an interesting story to tell about his MBA journey and the value of pacing while pursuing your MBA. It's a story of balancing life, school, and work, and simultaneously super charging you're learning. It's a great strategy for anyone who wants to make the most of your learning. Give it a listen. 

For February, we host yet another successful woman from the economics department's graduate program, Mollie Markham. After a brief learning experience pursuing politics at the front lines in DC, she discovered what she doesn't want in a career. Fully embracing that lesson and, with some great counsel from family, she entered DePaul's graduate program. The rest is or will be legend as Mollie is now a Program Specialist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. Her timing could not have had better, as she entered this role at the start of one of the Feds biggest developments in 50 years; the building of a new instant payment system called FedNOW. Happy, successful, and working on really cool stuff. That's the recipe for a good life right there.

To kick off 2024, we begin a new, and perhaps recurring version of this podcast called Check Ins. Here, we're going to welcome back previous guests to update the topics we discussed in our original interview. For our inaugural episode, we welcome back Dave Ziegelski. Dave is Vice President of Information Technology for National Material L.P.; a partnership of over 30 business units in steel, metals, and related operations that is now one of the largest suppliers of steel in America. That is a high-profile role where there's a lot at stake. Dave, though, has a way of boiling down the complex into simply, straightforward tasks. To me, a sign he's not only very good at what he does, but likely a very good person to work with. Give it a listen

For December we offer part 2 with MBA alumnus, and rail industry veteran Marcin Taraszkiewicz. In this episode we talk about trains, trains, and more trains. Yes, Marcin plays with big toys on big projects, but his work really exists at the nexus of rail technology and client goals. His industry recognized expertise helps clients navigate those often-competing forces towards better project outcomes. These large projects tend to have a host of competing stakeholder interests, and things can get complicated fast. Luckily, markets respond quickly to public priorities and, consequently, there's some cool stuff happening in rail technology.    Big trains and cool technology, what more do you want!? Listen in.....

November begins a 2-part podcast with MBA alumnus Marcin Taraszkiewicz from the global design & engineering firm HDR. In this part 1, Marcin explains how he went from a design focused engineer to senior leader for large, multidisciplinary transportation projects. A transformation that took time, some failure, learning to ask questions, and how to value those answers. He gives some great examples of how being open to learning, by whatever means, he developed skills and interests that he didn't know he had or even wanted. The lesson is that even perfectly designed plans, developed in a vacuum, are often useless without the input of all the stakeholders involved. If that isn't strategic, I don't know what is. Give it a listen.

 October brings in MBA alumna Alla Antonov, to discuss her role as Principal Advisor, Commercial Strategy at the mining giant Rio Tinto. Alla specializes in Rio's borates market. Rio, though, is a global, diversified firm with many products and an interesting business structure of four distinct operational entities and a single commercial team, Alla's home, serving as its primary market interface for all products. This is a great business with competitive advantage and high returns to capital. A nice place to be for any firm but the question then becomes what are you going to do next? Rio Tinto isn't standing idle. They're innovating for efficiencies, embracing technology to lower environmental impacts and continuing to explore the world for the resources it needs. It's a good story and you should hear it.

Let's welcome strategy alumnus Howard Gilman to the podcast. Howard currently serves as Lead Deal Desk Strategist for LinkedIn's Sales Solutions group. LinkedIn, as a firm, is many things though; software company, social media platform, hiring & recruiting services, and more. So, what's the product, and who's the customer? Well, it depends. For Howard's group, it's firm's looking for market intelligence to grow their business but what about the others? Such is the nature of a multi-sided platform. A business model that seeks to create value for distinct groups interacting across a core technology platform. LinkedIn has built a very elegant and focused version of this model. What to know more? Keep Listening!

For August, MS-EPA alumnus Jason Knoespel joins us to discuss his work as Managing Director, Client Analytics at Evolent; a provider of technology, reporting, and intelligence services designed to increase efficiency & patient outcomes for its healthcare partners. Jason talks about his current work, new developments in value-based care, information sharing and big data, and the potential of non-traditional health determinants. Evolving markets do make strategy challenging, but Evolent recently showed its strategic guile by refocusing into value-based, specialty care. Indicating this market could be engaging in value addition; a concept where firms focus on separate & distinct segments and increase value for everyone. A rare economic win/win? Listen in.

 In our July episode MBA alumna Amy Wilson joins us to discuss her work at the market leading cloud services provider Amazon Web Services (AWS). Amy sells AWS offerings to state and local governments that operate in Windows environments. In this increasingly competitive industry, there are reasons why this segment would seem difficult to crack; even for AWS. So how do they overcome these difficulties? Using the strategic principle of looking ahead and reasoning back. AWS looked ahead to each stage of client interactions, anticipated obstacles (perceived or real), and designed optimal responses to reinforce their market leading strengths. Leading with your strengths, I like that! You should give it a listen.

This episode welcome's strategy alumnus Dain Rideau. As a Product Manager for autonomous vehicle developer Torc Robotics, he works on connecting vehicles to information. Torc, a subsidiary of industry leading OEM Daimler Truck, focuses on self-driving trucks and while this space is filled with strategic uncertainty, this OEM partnership is a strategic marvel. Why? During uncertainty, a leading firm's priority is to protect its position. This partnership allows Daimler to participate in the advancement of autonomous technologies in its own vehicles. Simultaneously protecting its position and embracing the change, whatever that looks like. Smart! Listen in.

This month we meet Liam Bruno, a Double Demon currently serving as Senior Manager for Procurement at Walgreens. Liam's focus is on integrating ESG into day-to-day operations. ESG is, of course, well established and proven to create value when executed well, but there are many obstacles. Still, forward thinking firms like Walgreens are widening their definition of stakeholder to include social and environmental interests; seeing the potential payoff of cooperation between this wider interest group. In essence, Liam's role is seeking, what economic theory calls, a Pareto optimal solution, where all these interest groups are served while taking away from none. How does he do that? Listen in.

In this episode we meet entrepreneur Philip Costa Hibberd. Philip designs and builds robotic process automation, or RPA, for clients in the finance industry. He solves a productivity problem by automating rote computer tasks often done by highly paid analysts. This is a great example of firm-level microeconomics where investments change production functions and the allocation of resources towards more efficient use. Seems intuitive but nice to see theory meet reality. Efficiency is always a strategic imperative and not just in perfectly competitive markets. Philip helps his clients get there. He's also got a terrific outlook on life and business that's worth hearing too. You should listen!

In this Part 2 with Aaron Pagel, we learn more about his practice of wandering, and how ultimately that inspired him to ask an interesting question; what is hype? Turns out, isolating hype as a function itself, apart from its context, is relatively uncharted territory with little precedent or literature to lean on. So, he decided to enter a PhD program and find out for himself. The open-ended, scholarly research process is the perfect sandbox to create and test these ideas. Is this a final destination? Maybe, maybe not, but that inspiration resulted from the curiosity before it, and whatever is next will result from the same. And so, it goes. Want to be inspired? Listen in…

This month, I'm delighted to welcome my friend and creator & original host of this podcast Aaron Pagel. Aaron is currently pursuing a PHD at University of Oregon in Management Strategy with emphasis on Hype. However, his path getting there was anything but a straight line. He joins us for part one of a two-part interview to discuss his unorthodox career path, lessons learned along the way, and where he's going now. His story is a reminder that opportunity comes in unexpected ways, and at seemingly random times. However, good decisions at those moments are made easier with varied experience, openness to change, and even a little creativity.  Life's short, enjoy the ride and make sure you listen in!

To start the year, I spoke with DePaul MBA Alumna Paulina Costa, Sales Director – Americas at Kalsec. Paulina has always been a natural in sales but completing her MBA positioned her to become sales lead for Kalsec's entire Latin American territory. Kalsec is a global provider of taste and sensory solutions. Which means, they research, test, and produce the all-natural ingredients used by CPG companies to ensure their products are safe and delicous. This critical input market has seen some consolidation of late. Fortunately, Kalsec enjoys some competitive advantages, that allow them to defend existing markets while expanding into new ones. Want to hear how? Settle in and give it a listen!

For December's episode, I was honored to speak with US Military Veteran, Double-Demon, and MBA Strategy Alumna Rachel Burke. Rachel's impressive combination of career experiences landed her at the seemingly perfect spot as Director of implementation at the Industrial AI firm Uptake. Here we discuss that combination, Uptake's fascinating work, and why her role is a great example of the strategic concept of specific investments. These types of investments, whether human or physical, signal a commitment to clients and also lower the relative cost of outsourcing vs internalizing things that may be beyond the efficient boundary of a client's organization.

This month DePaul MBA alumnus Dan Jungels and I discussed how to successfully enter new markets. A topic Dan knows well as he was fortunate enough to go straight from the Business Strategy & Decision Making classrooms into the exact challenge he'd been training for. In his current role as Manager of Renewable Energy Strategy and Business Development at the manufacturer Panduit, he has helped plan, executed, and continually adapt to just such an expansion. In this episode we learn Panduit's process and how they leveraged firm specific and usage flexible resources to find the best target for expansion. This is an interesting one, you should listen in.

In this episode I hosted DePaul MBA alumnus Dave Ziegelski, Vice President of Information Technology at National Material LP, to discuss his career in IT and the increasingly important role it plays in strategic planning. It IS a digital world and IT touches everything in it, connecting resources & people through process & data. Through Dave's career he's accumulated both deep knowledge and some healthy perspective on the subject. While his knowledge has earned him a seat in the strategic planning process, his perspective reminds him that for all of ITs big potential, it always best to start by listening to people and solving their problems first. An important lesson for sure, you should listen in.

To welcome a new academic year, I was joined by MBA alumna Alison Tinnon, Senior Campaign Manager at StudioNorth. As an agency-based marketing professional Alison helps other firms navigate their own strategic goals. This puts her right at the nexus of markets and firms and economists love that! It also requires a clear understanding of both a firm's current positioning in the eyes of customers & competitors and, tactically, how to get them where they want to go. In this episode, Alison describes why the tools of Economics are uniquely applicable in her role and how they help her see things more clearly. It's a really great example of the power of economics in business strategy – you should listen!

In this late summer edition, DePaul MSEPA Alumni Carsten Raaum and I discuss his research work at the real estate giant CBRE. In his role as Associate Research Director, Global Research he studies macroeconomic issues, and analyzes their potential impact on global markets and industry sectors; a super interesting role to be sure. For strategy development, this kind of information is vision and, in the right hands, can serve as a divining rod to opportunity. While few will ever find a strategic panacea, well-informed business leader can make better decisions one at a time and even see new connections that help solidify their strategic plans.

This month, I caught up with DePaul MBA Alumna Brittany Strebel; Lincoln Operations Manager at Ford Motor Company. I was lucky to attend graduate school with Brittany and learned quite a bit from this smart, composed and savvy woman. In this episode, Brittany takes us through her 10+ year career at Ford and describes the current transformation taking place at the legendary automaker. A transformation dictated by changing market preferences and full of opportunity for growth and innovation. By embracing such change, Ford illuminates its lineage as an industry disruptor and signals management's awareness that good strategy means if you're standing still, you're falling behind!

To cap off the academic year, I talked with DePaul MBA Alumnus Bryan Davis, Senior Treasury Manager at Ryan Specialty. Bryan has many strengths and a lot of experience in the strategically vital area of Treasury Management. This episode serves as a reminder that strategic plans are only as good as the people executing them. Like links in a chain, if each business area isn't aware of, and prepared for the what, when, and how of their firm's strategic plans, those plans are likely to fail. We discuss the critical role of Treasury in that model of success and highlight the reality that strategic success really does take a village.

This month I talked with DePaul MBA Alumnus Anthony Palcheck; Strategic Business Development Advisor at Zebra Ventures, the venture capital arm of Zebra Technologies. Zebra has been on a roll and, as you'll hear, that success results from a series of good decisions made by leadership with a clear vision and good communication skills. Their success pivoting from a hardware manufacturer to a vertically integrated solutions provider is a masterclass in business transformation and working your way up the value chain.

This month I was delighted to discuss alternative energy with DePaul MBA Alumnus Doug Edgar, VP of Operations at White Harvest Energy. In this discussion we explored Doug's background, the obstacles he faces prophesizing alternative energy solutions, and discovered how value creation, value capture, and coopetition coexist to benefit all of White Harvest Energy's stakeholders.

In this episode I had the good fortune to speak with DePaul Alumnus Kelly Kester. Kelly currently serves as Senior Manager - Corporate Strategy & Business Development at Cardinal Health. We reviewed her unique career journey and discussed how Cardinal Health uses vertical strategies to offer both value to their customers & provide safe harbor from a highly competitive core business.  

This month we are thrilled to host DePaul Double Demon, Andy Polacek. Andy is a Senior Economic Research Analyst with Insurance Initiative at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. He speaks with me about how insurance markets develop and how we are currently dealing some highly correlated risks that may defy our standard mechanisms of insurance and de-risking.

In this episode, Erik Lindholm, Digital Transformation Lead at Deloitte, talks with us about how he considers what resources are available and what is the best strategy that is going to maximize the success of those resources. This is called consonance. The musical definition of this is the combination of notes which are in harmony with each other due to the relationship between their frequencies, which is a powerful way to view the relationship between resources and strategy!

This month we are joined by AT&T Vice President of Mobility Customer Care, Jennifer Asplund. Jennifer not only sits in a position that has a 30,000 ft view of a highly competitive industry within one of its most powerful established firms, but she also has over 15 years of experience within AT&T that ranges from front line store operations to product development. The main focus of our conversation is related to the human component of value creation, strategy development, and innovation.

John Adams III is the Inside Sales & Customer Support Manager at Zekelman Industries, a firm that manufactures steel piping for large scale construction projects. The steel industry is a part of well developed supply chain and is highly competitive, making relationship maintenance important and price competition possible. John speaks with me about how his firm creates value without falling into the price competition trap. Surprisingly, one of those value adds is an award winning website!

Jordan Blue is the West Coast Director for AIRINC, a firm that specializes in employee mobility. Employee mobility conjures a pretty clear image of employees moving from place to place. You might think of this as simply a firm that coordinates logistics of employee relocation. This might have been an accurate description at the beginning of this industry, but now that barely scratches the surface.

DePaul MBA alumnus, Jeff Lemonds is the Managing Director at Casappa Corporation, which is a firm that specializes in hydraulic systems. Hydraulics are a very old technology that is inside almost all machinery with moving mechanical parts. Jeff talks with me about his industry's dynamics, how COVID has disrupted the supply chain, and how his firm views the next step of innovation for this very established technology. 

Lead Product Marketing Manager at Esri, Lauren Lipovic speaks with us about the GIS industry, which stands for geographic information system. GIS is one of those services & products that we often overlook, but consider any kind of dynamic map you've encountered. Every single one is GIS and each provides vital information for daily routines, but also massive resource management for large organizations. The applications are endless, and Lauren's job is to understand that demand curve.

Carlie Frisch is a DePaul MBA Alumnus and Client Insights Manager at SPINS, a wellness-focused data technology company. Carlie talks with me about the growth of the ‘naturals' industry within consumer packaged goods. The CPG industry is a very competitive space that must quickly respond to changes in consumer preferences while leveraging massive economies of scale to keep costs low. Yet in the face of those challenges, natural products continue to find ways to successfully innovate and disrupt.

This month we are joined by Senior Manager of Corporate Development at Blue Cross of Illinois, Louise Anderson. Health insurance in the US is a quagmire of complex interactions with lots of moving parts between providers, insurers, governments, and patients. Louise talks with me about how the health insurance industry is organized and how an aging population and the very recent influx of telehealth technology are factors in the industry's response to inflationary healthcare spending and public policy.

Bob Schiller is the Countrywide Product Manager at National General Insurance (an Allstate Company). Insurance is at the foundation of de-risking many other activities, making them more accessible and fueling economic development. That also means that insurance can be inherently slow to innovate. However, technology and consumer preferences have drastically changed in the past decade, which is forcing relatively quick changes for insurance in the forms of M&A, technology adoption, and product development.

DePaul MS-EPA Alumnus, Marty Friel, is a financial advisor with Ameriprise Financial Services which is a highly competitive industry for 2 reasons. Firstly, the service is usually only differentiated by the way products are packaged and the relationships with advisors. Secondly, its hard to judge the quality of an investment strategy even after years of being a client. Marty talks about how using strategy frameworks has super charged his ability to differentiate himself & demonstrate his quality to clients.

In this episode, we are joined by DePaul MBA Alumnus and COO of Equipment International, Bradley Lerner. In Feb 2020, Bradley had recently stepped into his role as the operations leader for a Chicago based firm that sells and services industrial laundry solutions. He began surveying the lay of the land and developing a strategic plan… and then the lockdowns began. One year later, Bradley talks with us about his experience balancing the responsibilities of crisis manager and strategic leader.