Podcasts about epa

In a heart-wrenching courtroom scene, relatives who believed their loved ones may have been among the 190 decomposing bodies discovered at the Return to Nature Funeral Home watched as the owners, Jon and Carie Hallford, appeared before a judge to face a litany of disturbing charges. The Colorado Springs-based funeral home's facility in Penrose, a quiet Rocky Mountain town, became the epicenter of an unprecedented scandal that has left families in turmoil.    Accused of abusing corpses, theft, money laundering, and forgery, the Hallfords stood in orange jail clothes and handcuffs, remaining silent during a brief court hearing. The revelations surrounding the funeral home have sent shockwaves throughout the community.  The disturbing discovery unfolded when investigators unearthed dozens of stacked bodies at the facility, with some dating as far back as 2019, according to federal affidavits. Families who entrusted their loved ones to the funeral home were told that their relatives had been cremated, but court records allege that they received substitute materials, not their loved ones' ashes.    Heather DeWolf, a grieving mother, attended the hearing and held up a photo of her late son, Zach DeWolf, who passed away at the age of 33 in 2020. Return to Nature had handled her son's remains, and she expressed her profound grief and disbelief: "I don't view them honestly as human at this point. I don't believe a human could do this." She recalled the heartbreaking moment she rocked a container, thinking it held her son's ashes, only to question its contents now.    While the FBI has privately told many families that their loved ones were among the decaying bodies, the full extent of how the bodies were mishandled remains unknown to the public. Defense attorneys have objected to the unsealing of affidavits, and the decision on whether to make them public awaits a future judge's ruling. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has announced plans to demolish the Return to Nature funeral home in Colorado, where authorities uncovered the nearly 200 decaying bodies.  Initially, the Fremont County Department of Public Health & Environment declared the funeral home a public health risk, and now the EPA is stepping in to address the hazardous situation. The agency had scheduled an evaluation of the property in mid-November, but the decision to demolish the building in January 2024 was announced last week. The goal is to remove biological and hazardous materials discovered within the structure safely.    The Hallfords were arrested in Oklahoma, where they had allegedly fled to avoid prosecution. They are currently in police custody, held on a $2 million bond each, and face numerous charges, including about 190 counts of abuse of a corpse, theft, money laundering, and forgery.    Jon Hallford is represented by the public defender's office, which has declined to comment on the case. Carie Hallford is being represented by attorney Michael Stuzynski, who has also declined to comment.    In the aftermath of the grim discovery, authorities have been working diligently to identify the remains. Various methods, including fingerprints, dental records, medical hardware, and DNA, are being employed to establish the identities of those affected.  The shocking revelations have raised questions about the practices of Return to Nature Funeral Home, which offered cremations and "green" burials without embalming fluids. The company, founded in 2017, faced numerous financial crises, including missed tax payments, eviction notices, and lawsuits from suppliers.    When state officials reached out to Jon Hallford after receiving reports of a foul odor, he admitted to having a "problem" at the site and claimed to practice taxidermy there, according to an order dated October 5. However, the extent of the problem and the circumstances surrounding the bodies' mishandling have yet to be fully disclosed to the public.    The FBI's involvement intensified when Jon Hallford ceased using his phone on the day of the funeral home's search, leading authorities to believe he was attempting to evade law enforcement. The subsequent tracking of Carie Hallford's phone to Oklahoma led to the discovery of Jon Hallford's car at his parent's residence and the issuance of a federal court warrant for the couple's arrest.    As the legal proceedings unfold, the nation watches with a mixture of sympathy for the grieving families and a demand for accountability in this deeply disturbing and unprecedented case. Want to listen to ALL of our podcasts AD-FREE? Subscribe through APPLE PODCASTS, and try it for three days free: https://tinyurl.com/ycw626tj Follow Our Other Cases: https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com The latest on Catching the Long Island Serial Killer, Awaiting Admission: BTK's Unconfessed Crimes, Delphi Murders: Inside the Crime, Chad & Lori Daybell, The Murder of Ana Walshe, Alex Murdaugh, Bryan Kohberger, Lucy Letby, Kouri Richins, Malevolent Mormon Mommys, Justice for Harmony Montgomery, The Murder of Stephen Smith, The Murder of Madeline Kingsbury, and much more! Listen at https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com

In a heart-wrenching courtroom scene, relatives who believed their loved ones may have been among the 190 decomposing bodies discovered at the Return to Nature Funeral Home watched as the owners, Jon and Carie Hallford, appeared before a judge to face a litany of disturbing charges. The Colorado Springs-based funeral home's facility in Penrose, a quiet Rocky Mountain town, became the epicenter of an unprecedented scandal that has left families in turmoil.    Accused of abusing corpses, theft, money laundering, and forgery, the Hallfords stood in orange jail clothes and handcuffs, remaining silent during a brief court hearing. The revelations surrounding the funeral home have sent shockwaves throughout the community.  The disturbing discovery unfolded when investigators unearthed dozens of stacked bodies at the facility, with some dating as far back as 2019, according to federal affidavits. Families who entrusted their loved ones to the funeral home were told that their relatives had been cremated, but court records allege that they received substitute materials, not their loved ones' ashes.    Heather DeWolf, a grieving mother, attended the hearing and held up a photo of her late son, Zach DeWolf, who passed away at the age of 33 in 2020. Return to Nature had handled her son's remains, and she expressed her profound grief and disbelief: "I don't view them honestly as human at this point. I don't believe a human could do this." She recalled the heartbreaking moment she rocked a container, thinking it held her son's ashes, only to question its contents now.    While the FBI has privately told many families that their loved ones were among the decaying bodies, the full extent of how the bodies were mishandled remains unknown to the public. Defense attorneys have objected to the unsealing of affidavits, and the decision on whether to make them public awaits a future judge's ruling. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has announced plans to demolish the Return to Nature funeral home in Colorado, where authorities uncovered the nearly 200 decaying bodies.  Initially, the Fremont County Department of Public Health & Environment declared the funeral home a public health risk, and now the EPA is stepping in to address the hazardous situation. The agency had scheduled an evaluation of the property in mid-November, but the decision to demolish the building in January 2024 was announced last week. The goal is to remove biological and hazardous materials discovered within the structure safely.    The Hallfords were arrested in Oklahoma, where they had allegedly fled to avoid prosecution. They are currently in police custody, held on a $2 million bond each, and face numerous charges, including about 190 counts of abuse of a corpse, theft, money laundering, and forgery.    Jon Hallford is represented by the public defender's office, which has declined to comment on the case. Carie Hallford is being represented by attorney Michael Stuzynski, who has also declined to comment.    In the aftermath of the grim discovery, authorities have been working diligently to identify the remains. Various methods, including fingerprints, dental records, medical hardware, and DNA, are being employed to establish the identities of those affected.  The shocking revelations have raised questions about the practices of Return to Nature Funeral Home, which offered cremations and "green" burials without embalming fluids. The company, founded in 2017, faced numerous financial crises, including missed tax payments, eviction notices, and lawsuits from suppliers.    When state officials reached out to Jon Hallford after receiving reports of a foul odor, he admitted to having a "problem" at the site and claimed to practice taxidermy there, according to an order dated October 5. However, the extent of the problem and the circumstances surrounding the bodies' mishandling have yet to be fully disclosed to the public.    The FBI's involvement intensified when Jon Hallford ceased using his phone on the day of the funeral home's search, leading authorities to believe he was attempting to evade law enforcement. The subsequent tracking of Carie Hallford's phone to Oklahoma led to the discovery of Jon Hallford's car at his parent's residence and the issuance of a federal court warrant for the couple's arrest.    As the legal proceedings unfold, the nation watches with a mixture of sympathy for the grieving families and a demand for accountability in this deeply disturbing and unprecedented case. Want to listen to ALL of our podcasts AD-FREE? Subscribe through APPLE PODCASTS, and try it for three days free: https://tinyurl.com/ycw626tj Follow Our Other Cases: https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com The latest on Catching the Long Island Serial Killer, Awaiting Admission: BTK's Unconfessed Crimes, Delphi Murders: Inside the Crime, Chad & Lori Daybell, The Murder of Ana Walshe, Alex Murdaugh, Bryan Kohberger, Lucy Letby, Kouri Richins, Malevolent Mormon Mommys, Justice for Harmony Montgomery, The Murder of Stephen Smith, The Murder of Madeline Kingsbury, and much more! Listen at https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com

AlabamaAdvocacy group commends Tuberville for standing up for unborn lifeSen. Katie Britt endorses Donald Trump on the day of the GOP debates in ALCongressman Strong opposes new EPA rule regarding sales mandate on EVsCongressman Moore says FBI getting away with religious targetingCongressman Carl calls out Google Maps for removing pregnancy centerCarl and Moore set date to debate each other in Daphne this coming JanuaryF35 fighter jets arriving at Dannelly Field in Montgomery as transition beginsNationalKevin McCarthy to leave officer 10 months early, at end of DecemberAnother record day of illegal crossings at US Mexico border, over 12,000Defense secretary seeks more funding for Ukraine, some GOP refuseLawsuit filed against the US State department for its censorship tacticsFederal judge dismisses case in AZ to remove Trump from primary ballotParents of boy called racist by Deadspin media hire lawyer to get retraction

It's been nearly 10 months since the derailment of a Norfolk Southern freight train and the subsequent “controlled release” and burnoff of toxic vinyl chloride changed life forever for the residents of East Palestine, Ohio. While the media, politicians, and the public have largely moved on, people living in and around East Palestine have been abandoned by Norfolk Southern, by their state and federal governments, and left to rot in the toxic fallout. We cannot forget about them. In September of this year, TRNN Editor-in-Chief Maximillian Alvarez was invited to the Harvard Law School to participate in an all-day event titled "Storytelling for Justice—East Palestine," where he conducted a live Working People interview with Chris and Jessica Albright, two residents of East Palestine whose lives have been turned upside down by the derailment. After recording and publishing that live show, we've kept in touch with the Albrights as they and their family continue to do whatever they can to pick up the pieces after Norfolk Southern shattered the life they knew before Feb. 3. In this episode, we talk once again with Chris and Jessica about their lives before the derailment, and about the hell they've been living through ever since. Read the show notes and transcript of this podcast here.Post-Production: Jules TaylorHelp us continue producing radically independent news and in-depth analysis by following us and becoming a monthly sustainer:Donate: https://therealnews.com/donate-podSign up for our newsletter: https://therealnews.com/newsletter-podLike us on Facebook: https://facebook.com/therealnewsFollow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/therealnews

Phytality founder Mark Pages, joins Mason for an illuminating conversation around the profound health promoting benefits of marine phytoplankton and other plant based sources of omega-3. The pair discuss the history and resurgence of marine phytoplankton as a life giving superfood, its primordial origins, and its potential as a sustainable dietary replacement for other more commercialised, processed and anti-environment sources such as those derived from fish and krill oils. Mark and Mason cover the controversy surrounding marine phytoplankton and the importance of ensuring its purity and quality. Mark breaks down the manufacturing processes used at Phytality to ensure the finished product is both highly bioavailable and nutritionally rich. Emphasizing the vital need for a balanced intake of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, especially when aiming to reduce inflammation and support cardiovascular health. Mark draws our attention to the potential risks of consuming excess dietary omega-6, highlighting the importance of mindful choices for overall well-being. The antioxidant properties of phytoplankton are also spoken to, particularly the benefits of zeaxanthin and lutein, and their impact on eye health. With an overall emphasis on the necessity for high-quality, bioavailable sources of omega-3 in the daily diet. An incredibly informative chat today.   Mark & Mason discuss: - The history and resurgence of marine phytoplankton as a superfood. - The primordial origins of marine phytoplankton. - The health benefits of marine phytoplankton. - The importance of purity and quality when sourcing phytoplankton. - Phytoplankton, plant protein & nutrient bioavailability. - The importance of maintaining a balanced omega-3 to omega-6 ratio when consuming omega rich foods.   Resource guide Guest Links Phytality Website website Phytality Instagram Phytality LinkedIn Mentioned In This Episode Phytoplankton Introduction from Woods Hole Oceanographic InstitutionMarine Planktonic Cyanobacteria OriginWorld's Biggest Oxygen Producers Living in Swirling Ocean Waters Study: Appearance of Fatty Acids In Human PlasmaStudy: Maintaining Low Omega-6/Omega-3 Ratio for Reducing the Risk of Autoimmune Diseases, Asthma, and AllergiesStudy: Benefits of Omega-6 and Omega-3 Fatty Acids on Human Health: An Update for 2021What Impacts The Conversion of Alpha-linolenicacid (ALA) To DHA and EPA? How Industrial Agriculture Affects Our SoilPhytality Phytoplankton Growing ProcessPhytality Production FacilitiesThe Biochemistry Of Fats YoutubeRhonda Patrick On The Benefits of Omega-3sSuperfoods Book, David Avocado Wolfe Related Podcasts A Plant Based Approach That Works with James Newbury & Matt Legge (EP#187) Connect With Us SuperFeast InstagramSuperFeast FacebookSuperFeast TikTok SuperFeast Online Education   Check Out The Transcript Below: https://www.superfeast.com.au/blogs/articles/phytoplankton-superfood-of-the-sea-with-mark-pages-ep-212    

Where the levels are higher and what the EPA is recommending.

The way you begin your morning not only sets the tone for your entire day, but it can also dictate your health outcomes and level of success. The science-backed benefits of having a solid morning routine include better energy levels, enhanced productivity, higher sleep quality, and lower stress levels. On today's show, you're going to learn about one of the most powerful and effective morning routines that can change your health, help you reach your goals, and so much more. Today's guest, Hal Elrod, is an international speaker, personal development expert, and author of the bestselling book, The Miracle Morning. Hal joins this episode of The Model Health Show to share the powerful science behind morning routines, and practical and effective strategies you can use to transform your life.  You're going to learn about the morning routines of the most successful people in the world, practices you can implement to improve your life, and how to craft a morning routine that works for you. If you're ready to unlock your potential, creating an intentional morning ritual is a powerful starting point. So listen in, implement what resonates with you, and enjoy this interview with the one and only, Hal Elrod! In this episode you'll discover: Why starting your day off right is so important. How a morning ritual can help you show up as your best self. The one quote that changed Hal's life. What the biggest disconnect in our society and how it impacts our success. Two personal anecdotes that taught Hal to turn pain into purpose. What the five-minute rule is. The acronym SAVERS. Which personal development tool is the most misunderstood. How morning exercise can increase your cognitive ability and focus. The magic of journaling. How to utilize the six-minute Miracle Morning. Ways to customize your morning routine. The two biggest misconceptions about affirmations. Three steps to create affirmations that are practical and results oriented. The inspiring story of how Hal beat cancer. How to use visualization to reach your goals. Ways to stop accepting mediocrity in your life A powerful method for using affirmations to override your human nature. Items mentioned in this episode include: Beekeepersnaturals.com/model -- Save on raw honey & other natural remedies! HVMN.com/model -- Save 30% on your first subscription order of Ketone-IQ! The Miracle Morning: Updated & Expanded Version by Hal Elrod -- Preorder today! Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki The Miracle Morning Movie Connect with Hal Elrod Website / Facebook / Instagram  Join TMHS Facebook community - Model Nation  Be sure you are subscribed to this podcast to automatically receive your episodes:  Apple Podcasts Stitcher Spotify Soundcloud   Thanks to our Sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Beekeeper's Naturals. Right now, we're in the midst of cold and flu season, alright. Cold and flus for some reason, because of marketing, they get a whole season dedicated to colds and flus. But the bottom line is, we do wanna make sure that we are taking care of our immune system, fortifying things, and making sure that our bodies are resilient in the face of anything that we might be exposed to. Now, as the statement says, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So we wanna make sure that we're being proactive and focus on prevention. One of the things that I do proactively, especially during this time of year, is utilize one of the most renowned products for fortifying the immune system from bees called propolis. A study published in the peer reviewed journal, Antiviral Chemistry and Chemotherapy, revealed that propolis has significant anti-viral effects, specifically in reducing viral lung infections. Now, quality is everything when it comes to propolis, and the propolis that I utilize is the Propolis Throat Spray from Beekeeper's Naturals, go to beekeepersnaturals.com/ model. That's beekeepersnaturals.com/model, you get 20% off their incredible propolis immune spray. Now again, this is something that I use on a regular basis. I also make sure that my family is getting their sprays in, and it's backed by really solid science, and the proof is in the pudding, I'm not one of those guys that's just out here getting sicky sick all the time. And I definitely attribute proactive use of this propolis immune spray, it's just really taken things to another level. And if you look at some of the background on this, this is really the immune system for the hive itself. And there's been a resonance for thousands of years, humans have been utilizing this, but the key is also supporting, regenerative beekeeping. Because our bees are being hit hard by all of these different environmental pollutants that have recently, just especially in the last few decades, have been integrating themselves into our environment. And we're talking billions of tons of newly invented toxicants are added to our environment each year. And this is coming from data from the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency, about three billion tons of these toxins from "normal business practices". We're not talking about those big events you might see on the news, we're just talking about day-to-day run-of-the mill, literally events that are impacting our environment and deeply impacting populations of bees. And so investing in companies like Beekeeper's Naturals is something really special because not only are we getting something special for our own health, but we're supporting regenerative beekeeping in a huge, huge way. And by the way, when it comes down to it, especially when we're looking at, okay, we've got a sick kid or maybe we're coming down with something. Typically in our culture, we're turning to these ridiculous, highly refined, all these different chemicals, newly invented compounds, not to mention the drug agents that are a lot of times, not even necessary. And so one of the most popular conventional cough syrups out there on store shelves, you know the one, alright, there's several of them. There's Benadryl, there's NyQuil. I don't even wanna say their names. But they contain things like FD&C Blue number 1, FD&C Red number 40, high fructose corn syrup, propylene glycol, saccharin sodium. Like multiple forms of refined sugars and sweeteners and all of these again synthetic chemicals that are anti-health. And there are certain things that have been proven. These are backed by science to be equally as beneficial, but far less toxic. The combination of first and foremost, honey... Let's talk about that. A randomized double-blind placebo-controlled study revealed that raw honey, that's the key, was able to outperform placebo and significantly reduce cough frequency and severity at night and improve sleep quality. The cough syrup from Beekeeper's Naturals should be a staple in your cabinet because it also contains several other science-backed nutritional sources, including elderberry. A double blind placebo-controlled study, published in the peer reviewed journal, Advances in Traditional Medicine found that after 48 hours of treatment with elderberry coughing was relieved in 31% of patients versus the placebo. It works, it works if you work it. So highly recommend getting yourself some of these resources. You don't wanna wait around until you need it, make sure that you have it on hand. And also they have some incredible lozenges for you as well without all those highly refined sugars and chemicals. They're doing so many good things. Go to beekeepersnaturals.com/model, that's beekeepersnaturals.com./model for 20% off store-wide.   This episode is brought to you by HVMN. I wanna share something with you that has been fueling my workouts recently. Numerous studies, including a study published by the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology, aka, the FASEB Journal have found that exogenous ketones can be up to 28% more efficient in generating energy than glucose alone. And because of this something that, listen, there are so many different supplements that are out there on the market, very few things do you experience a change the first day. Now this isn't true for everybody, but for me, this was the case. I was shocked. I actually took time stepping away from everything else that I was doing as far as supplementation around training. Gave myself a break, and then did this with a lot of focus and intention to see, hey, what are the kind of results that I could see by utilizing Ketone-IQ? And I was really just blown away. My stamina was significantly increased, but more so my recovery afterwards, it was really impressive. I just felt like I could do so much more than I normally do. And I'm somebody who really prides myself on being a high performer and being able to really challenge my limits and do exceptional things. And so to do what I was typically doing and didn't have energy left in the tank, I was just like, wow, this is something special. I need to tell more people about this. So right now, you can head over to hvmn.com/model, and they're going to give you 30% off of your first subscription order. It'll be taken off automatically at checkout. And I'm telling you, this is the real deal. Go to hvmn.com/model checkout Ketone IQ today.

Let's talk about lead, the EPA, Biden, and moving forward.... --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/beau-of-the-fifth-column/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/beau-of-the-fifth-column/support

It's officially the last month of 2023 and we're reviewing yesterday's much anticipated launch of the Cybertruck and interviewing the dealer behind a letter to the President.Show Notes with links:Tesla's long-awaited Cybertruck is finally here following a highly publicized launch event at the company's Austin, TX factory yesterday.  With a starting price tag 50% above initial estimates the futuristic truck has an uncertain future.Pisces range from $60,990 to $99,990 across three variants. The top model, 'Cyberbeast,' is slated for next year, alongside the all-wheel drive version starting around $80,000. Entry-level model expected in 2025 at approximately $61,000.Elon Musk claims the Cybertruck offers "more utility than a truck" and speeds "faster than a sports car." In the demo, it out pulled an F350 Diesel and bea a Porsche 911 in a race…while towing a Porsche 911The longest-range variant estimates 340 miles, extendable to 470 miles with an additional battery pack, falling short of the originally touted 500 milesThey also did a half-baked redo with a glass strength demo where a baseball was thrown at the window to demonstrate its durabilityOur favorite review is from popular tech YouTuber Marques BrownleeYesterday we covered the EV Voice of the Customer letter, which urged President Biden to reconsider aggressive EV targets and was signed by almost 4000 dealers. Today, we're joined by Mickey Anderson, President and CEO of Baxter Auto Group and leading force behind the letter.The letter expressed concerns over the EPA proposal pushing EV sales to 60% by 2030 and 67% by 2032.The letter, titled “The Voice of the Customer,” is meant to show the political powers that the dealer is closest to the customer and ready to speak on their behalf.Hosts: Paul J Daly and Kyle MountsierGet the Daily Push Back email at https://www.asotu.com/ JOIN the conversation on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/company/asotu/ Read our most recent email at: https://www.asotu.com/media/push-back-email ASOTU Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/automotivestateoftheunion

U.S. stocks were mixed Thursday. Plus, Microsoft gets a board position at OpenAI, the EPA requires forever chemical reporting, and the UAW works to unionize 13 automakers.

The Israel-Hamas truce has expired.USA TODAY Justice Department Correspondent Aysha Bagchi breaks down the real stakes of Donald Trump's New York civil fraud trial.The EPA proposes removing all lead water pipes.Elon Musk sends a vulgar message to advertisers leaving X after an antisemitic post.We meet the USA TODAY Network's new Beyoncé Reporter, Caché McClay.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It's This Week in Bourbon for December 1st 2023. Potential site for ‘bourbon complex' hits the market in Shively, the Frazier History Museum is opening a special holiday exhibition Spirited Design featuring Old Forester's Mid-Century Decanters, and Heaven Hill Distillery announced the release of the Fall 2023 edition of Old Fitzgerald.Show Notes: Owensboro 21 pallets of bourbon that were reported missing have been located Potential site for ‘bourbon complex' hits the market in Shively The Frazier History Museum is opening a special holiday exhibition called Spirited Design: Old Forester's Mid-Century Decanters Buzzard's Roost Repeal Day Event Four Roses bourbon has launched its first-ever consumer advertising campaign The Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board warns about fakes Commissioners of the Oregon Liquor and Cannabis Commission reviewed changes to the agency's Chance to Purchase program Heaven Hill Brands announces two company facilities received the EPA's first-ever ENERGY STAR certification The Kentucky Bourbon Trail received a Gold Traverse for its "Book Now, Bourbon Later" digital marketing campaign Old Forester is releasing the rarest bottle it has ever produced – a decanter to honor the brand's 150th anniversary Castle & Key Distillery and Kentucky Black Bourbon Guild (KBBG release of The Untold Story of Kentucky Whiskey, Chapter 3 Broken Barrel Whiskey Co. has introduced Honey Smoke Reserva Jack Harlow joined forces with Knob Creek Jack Daniel Distillery introduces Distillery Series Selection #12, a Straight Tennessee Whiskey Finished in Oloroso Sherry Casks Fall 2023 edition of Old Fitzgerald Bottled-in-Bond Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey at 8 years old @frazierhistorymuseum @oldforester @buzzardsroostwhiskey @heavenhillbrands @heavenhilldistillery @kentuckybourbontrail @castleandkey @_kbbg_ @brokenbarrelwhiskey @jackharlow @knobcreek @jackdaniels_us Support this podcast on Patreon

Joe's Premium Subscription: www.standardgrain.comGrain Markets and Other Stuff Links-Apple PodcastsSpotifyGoogleTikTokYouTubeFutures and options trading involves risk of loss and is not suitable for everyone.Matt's Nashville Meeting: https://www.agmarket.net/events/2024/...

Independent investigative journalism, broadcasting, trouble-making and muckraking with Brad Friedman of BradBlog.com

Vinyl Institute, Inc. v. EPA

Live—from the campus of Hillsdale College in beautiful Hillsdale Michigan— this is Scot Bertram in for Steve on the Steve Gruber Show for   –Friday December 1st 2023—   —Here are 3 big things you need to know—   One —  Israel and Hamas have ended their seven-day truce.  The Israeli military said Friday that it has resumed combat in the Gaza Strip, and claims Hamas violated the truce when it fired a rocket toward Israeli territory.  Israeli airstrikes have been reported in Gaza City, and drones have been reported over southern Gaza.     Two—   A new rule from the EPA would require utilities to replace lead drinking water pipes within ten years.  The new lead and copper proposal would require utilities to replace the lines regardless of the lead levels registered in water samples.  The EPA is aiming to have a final version of the rule by next fall.     And number three — Congress is debating whether to expel New York Republican George Santos.  The House is expected to vote on it today, making it the third time this year the House has considered ousting Santos.  This comes after a House Ethics Committee found evidence Santos violated federal law by misusing campaign funds.    

The EPA moves closer to a decision about year-round sales of E15. We continue our coverage from the Milk Business Conference by looking at price pressures and a farm that is all about cow comfort and the latest technology.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Karolina har varit i Köpenhamn och upplevt den legendariska Nyhavnskroen, Sofia ger oss en inblick i revy-SM och det visar sig att det finns en Årstarevy. Dessutom pratar vi EPA och Sofia berättar ALLT om sina nya linser som kommer göra succé i Musikhjälpen. Tänk att ni finns

Hey everyone we hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving and welcome you back to YPS Podcast!

This show aired on Thursday, November 30th, 2023 on 107.9 and 980 The WAAV in Wilmington, NC. Guests include Jennifer Nassour and Donna King. EPA rescinds approval of Chemours importing GenX, Elon Musk Doesn't Care, and more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to Thursday as we say farewell to November. Today we talk about Shawn Fain's return to the headlines as well as a letter that was signed by 4000 dealers and sent to the President. We also pay our respects to a legend. He's baaaaack! After a hard fought and successful effort in recent negotiations with Detroit's Big 3, Shawn Fain and the UAW are putting on a full court press to unionize every other non-union automaker with a rather public initiative as workers at 13 non-union automakers will be announcing simultaneous campaignsEven the new EV entrants are being looped in as Tesla and Rivian are in the mixFain said in a video: "To all the auto workers out there working without the benefits of a union, now it's your turn." The money is there. The time is right," he added. "You don't have to worry about how you're going to pay your rent or feed your family while the company makes billions. A better life is out there."Tesla CEO Elon Musk, said when asked about the union effort, "I disagree with the idea of unions." and continued that if Tesla is unionized, "it'll be because we deserve it and we failed in some way."Multiple other OEMs released statements pointing to their history of treating employees well and saying unions will make it more challenging to do soNearly 4,000 U.S. dealerships have collectively urged President Biden to reconsider aggressive EV targets, focusing on current challenges in consumer adoption and infrastructure readiness.The initiative, led by Mickey Anderson, CEO of Baxter Auto Group and a broad group of Dealers, representing various states and car brands, expressed concerns over the EPA proposal pushing EV sales to 60% by 2030 and 67% by 2032.The letter, sent on Tuesday begins with appropriate title “Voice of the Customer” and continues; "What I and other dealers identified early on is that the voice of the customer was really absent from this entire conversation, and there's no way that we'll have a scalable solution if we don't have consumer adoption.""Electric vehicle demand today is not keeping up with the large influx of BEVs arriving at our dealerships prompted by the current regulations. BEVs are stacking up on our lots."We're going to take a moment to pay our respects to a legend. Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's right-hand man and a pivotal figure in building Berkshire Hathaway Inc., passed away at 99. Renowned for his simple yet profound advice on business and life, Munger's three key rules for success are timeless and instructive.First rule: Don't sell anything you wouldn't buy.Second rule: Don't work for anyone you don't respect and admire.Third rule: Only work with people you enjoy.Hosts: Paul J Daly and Kyle MountsierGet the Daily Push Back email at https://www.asotu.com/ JOIN the conversation on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/company/asotu/ Read our most recent email at: https://www.asotu.com/media/push-back-email ASOTU Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/automotivestateoftheunion

Recent changes to animal food regulations and how such changes could affect the animal food industry in 2024 are among those topics on the minds of today's animal food facility managers and operation/mill personnel. The big question being, of course, is how these latest regulatory requirements might impact business and the feed industry overall. With us in this episode of Feedstuffs in Focus to talk about the feed education component of the upcoming International Production & Processing Expo (IPPE) and what's on the industry's radar when it comes to regulation and enforcement is Gary Huddleston, Director of Feed Manufacturing and Regulatory Affairs for the American Feed Industry Assn. Among other things, Huddleston is involved in pulling together the Feed Education Program held each year during IPPE in Atlanta. He also is coordinator of AFIA and Feedstuffs Feed Facility of the Year annual awards program. Adding to the excitement, this year's winner in the commercial dry category will be announced during the feed education session on Wednesday morning of IPPE.This episode is brought to you by International Production & Processing Expo, a collaboration of three shows representing the entire chain of protein production and processing. Make your plans today to join the feed, meat and poultry industry in Atlanta, Ga., on Jan. 30-Feb. 1, 2024. To learn more at ippexpo.org. For more information, on this and other topics, we invite you to visit our websites - www.beefmagazine.com, www.Feedstuffs.com,  and www.NationalHogFarmer.com.  

Kissinger obituary, Suicide hotline, Penny Lane sign returned, EPA lead pipes, Alberta children intervention services, Russia-Finland border, Golden mole and more

Businesses inducted into the Makers program, local police participate in the "Stuff the Squad" donation event, Pritzker proposes $1 billion plan to EPA, new restaurant opening in Champaign. Hosted by Emily HuffmanStories by Kate Morris, Adelyn Mui Joaquim O'Malley-Macias, and Peter Derrah. Music by Outbox

Welcome to Episode 180 of Autism Parenting Secrets. This episode sheds light on why you will want to pay extra close attention to the cleaning products you use in your home.We're joined by Kelly Vlahakis-Hanks, President and CEO of ECOS.ECOS offers eco-conscious cleaning products made with safer ingredients.Kelly has been widely recognized for her influential voice in the green movement, corporate social responsibility, and sustainable manufacturing.Under her leadership, ECOS has become a model for green businesses in the U.S. and has won many awards for its innovations in safer green chemistry, including the EPA's Safer Choice Partner of the Year five times.Also joining this conversation is Kristine Waldren, Sr. Director of Corporate Communications and Government Affairs at ECOS.  Kristine shares her insights from her journey to support her child on the spectrum.These two powerful women make the case for ACTION.Because cleaning your home with toxic chemicals is NOT OK.The secret this week is…A Healthy Home Starts With SAFE Cleaning ProductsYou'll Discover:A Big Assumption That You CAN'T Make (4:51)The Logo You Want To See on Cleaning Products (8:09)The Color That Does NOT Mean Clean (14:12)The Link Between Chemicals and Behaviors In Kids (17:35)The Origin Story of ECOS (24:00)How You Can Make Your Voice Heard (27:12)The Many Ways ECOS Is Leading The Way (33:12)About Our GuestKELLY VLAHAKIS-HANKSAs President and CEO of ECOS plant-powered cleaning products, Kelly Vlahakis-Hanks is passionate about human and planetary health. She leads four manufacturing facilities across the U.S. as well as a European manufacturing platform. Kelly is widely recognized for her highly effective leadership at ECOS and her influential voice in corporate social responsibility, safer chemistry, and sustainable manufacturing. Kelly led ECOS to become a climate-positive company in 2021 after achieving carbon neutrality, water neutrality, and TRUE Platinum Zero Waste certification. ECOS is also the first manufacturer to receive LEED® Zero certifications in net-zero energy, carbon, and waste. As a woman of African American and Greek descent, Kelly has made environmental and social justice a cornerstone of ECOS's mission. Kelly supports the green economy by creating sustainable manufacturing jobs across the U.S. and offering excellent wages and family-friendly benefits. Kelly received her undergraduate degree at UCLA and her MBA at Chapman University. She's been featured on CNN, CBS News, ABC News, FOX News, NBC News, Bloomberg, and MarketWatch and in publications such as Fortune, Entrepreneur, and the Los Angeles Times. She's received several awards for her sustainable leadership, including Entrepreneur Magazine's 100 Powerful Women in 2020 and Conscious Company's World-Changing Women in Conscious Business.KRISTINE WALDRENKristine Waldren is the Sr. Director of Corporate Communications and Government Affairs at ECOS®, the maker of plant-powered cleaning products, where she blends her experience in communications and public policy with her passion for protecting the health of people and the planet.  Kristine guides the company's internal and external communications in partnership with many ECOS teams and community stakeholders, with a focus on sharing ECOS's leadership in sustainable manufacturing, green chemistry, and inclusive company culture. She also plays a key role in ECOS's partnership with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and its Safer Choice program, the gold standard of third-party safety certification.https://www.ecos.com/References in The Episode:Feature film A Green Story tells the story of Kelly's father, Van Vlahakis.Additional Resources:Take The Quiz: What's YOUR Top Autism Parenting Blindspot?To learn more about Cass & Len, visit us at www.autismparentingsecrets.comBe sure to follow Cass & Len on InstagramIf you enjoyed this episode, share it with your friends.

AirNow lets you get air quality data where you live.

In this week's deep dive, Nate Liss and Alexander MacKenzie analyze quarterback passer ratings and offensive EPA, highlighting buy-low candidates with league-winning potential in 2024. Brock Purdy is still too cheap

The well-being of creatures protected under the Endangered Species Act is a high priority for transportation agencies. That's good for the critters, and for agency operations as well. 

On Tuesday, the Mayo clinic is unveiled a new five billion dollar campus. But officials say it won't be your average hospital. Residents sound off on years of health concerns after an EPA report found violations at a south Minneapolis metal foundry. The cold weather is setting in. But for those with chronic pain, it can be more than just a nuisance. But what's the connection? A doctor joined us to explain. Removing a diseased Ash tree isn't cheap. A new grant is aiming to cover the cost. But not everyone impacted will get relief. A local organization is collecting stories of southeast Asian immigrants who fled after the fall of Saigon to share the experiences of the diaspora. We heard more from them.

Show Notes: Have you ever wondered what the difference is between these two herbs? Sometimes recipes will say they can be used interchangeably and sometimes they will call for both. Turns out they are similar in ways but different in others. This week, we'll talk all about what I learned about these two herbs. Herb Planting Cheat Sheet - https://journeywithjill.net/herbchart    (*links below contain affiliate links, which means if you click through and make a purchase, we will earn a commission at no extra cost to you.)   Wood Prairie Family Farms A small family farm on the edge of Maine's North Woods is located just six miles from the Canadian border. For over 45 years they have dedicated themselves to time-honored organic regenerative farming practices and building up the fertile soil of Wood Prairie Family Farm. Certified Organic by MOFGA (USDA-Accredited) since 1982. Their organic crops are sold to customers like you through their website and their FREE mail order catalog.  Check them out and use my code JILL5 for 5% off.   Zone Protects Zone Protects picaridin-based insect repellents are EPA registered and have worldwide, proven, 12-hr protection against mosquitoes, ticks, flies, fleas, chiggers, gnats and no-seeums. Zone Protects insect repellents are safe for adults, children, pets and pregnant women. Use my code JILL10 for 10% off your order   My Products: 2024 Complete Garden Plannerhttps://journeywithjill.net/shop/ Vegetable Gardening for Beginners Book: https://amzn.to/3TZeJux Products I recommend: Recommended Brands & Products page: https://journeywithjill.net/recommended-brands-and-products/ https://www.amazon.com/shop/thebeginnersgarden Connect with Jill:    Sign up for Friday Emails: https://journeywithjill.net/gardensignup YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/JourneywithjillNet/videos  The Beginner's Garden Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebeginnersgarden/ Link to Beginner's Garden Podcast past episodes: https://journeywithjill.net/podcast  

In collaboration with industry giants and support from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Enko Chem is revolutionizing the agricultural industry by accelerating the development of safer and more effective herbicides, disease protection, insect control, and yield enhancement solutions. Tom Meade, Chief Science Officer at Enko Chem joins host Victoria Meyer on The Chemical Show to share insights on their target-based discovery platform, the importance of data in their research, and the challenges and advantages of integrating DNA and chemistry.Killer Quote: "In order to revolutionize crop protection chemistries, we need to embrace the power of data, technology, and collaboration. By combining these elements, we can accelerate the development of safe and effective solutions that address the challenges facing our agriculture industry." - Tom MeadeJoin us to learn more about the following this week: Chemistry's key role in global agricultural industry, food security, and crop protection Target based discovery in agricultural , leveraging techniques built in pharma Utilizing data and AI in the agricultural industry  The role of regulators including EPA and USDA in AgChem Prioritizing safety in agricultural innovation In this episode, Victoria and Tom delve into Enko's mission to shorten the development timeline for crop protection chemistries while exploring the challenges and advantages of their target-based discovery platform, which aims to identify specific targets for herbicides and pesticides. Tom also shares the importance of data in Enko's research and development process, as well as their use of automated systems and machine learning models. This episode is sponsored by Clariant. Are you grappling with the lightning pace of regulatory and compliance changes in the printing inks industry? Do you want to know more about PFAS, supply chain transparency and extended producer responsibility? Check out Episode 137 of The Chemical Show to learn about PTFE-free solutions with Clariant and NAPIM. ***Don't miss an episode: Subscribe to The Chemical Show on your favorite podcast player. ***Like what you hear? Leave a rating and review.***Want more insights? Sign up for our email list at www.thechemicalshow.com. Wondering how we produce our podcast? Transistor.fm is our podcast publisher of choice. Try it for free here: https://transistor.fm/?via=victoria We use CastMagic.io to create ShowNotes, Newsletters, Social Media posts and more. Check it out here: https://get.castmagic.io/ean5etivmzi1 We use Descript to edit and transcribe each podcast episode. Follow this link to learn more: https://www.descript.com/?lmref=DdZ2MA

Episode length: 28:46 Author: Young et. al. Publication: A mobile app to capture EPA assessment data: Utilizing the consolidated framework for implementation research to identify enablers and barriers to engagement Perspect Med Educ June 2020. Tech is never a solution for poor educational design. But, good educational design can fail because of logistics. Voting for Methodology and Educational Impact: 22:50

A conversation with Tim Hwang about historical simulations, the interaction of policy and science, analogies between research ecosystems and the economy, and so much more.  Topics Historical Simulations Macroscience Macro-metrics for science Long science The interaction between science and policy Creative destruction in research “Regulation” for scientific markets Indicators for the health of a field or science as a whole “Metabolism of Science” Science rotation programs Clock speeds of Regulation vs Clock Speeds of Technology References Macroscience Substack Ada Palmer's Papal Simulation Think Tank Tycoon Universal Paperclips (Paperclip maximizer html game) Pitt Rivers Museum   Transcript [00:02:02] Ben: Wait, so tell me more about the historical LARP that you're doing. Oh, [00:02:07] Tim: yeah. So this comes from like something I've been thinking about for a really long time, which is You know in high school, I did model UN and model Congress, and you know, I really I actually, this is still on my to do list is to like look into the back history of like what it was in American history, where we're like, this is going to become an extracurricular, we're going to model the UN, like it has all the vibe of like, after World War II, the UN is a new thing, we got to teach kids about international institutions. Anyways, like, it started as a joke where I was telling my [00:02:35] friend, like, we should have, like, model administrative agency. You know, you should, like, kids should do, like, model EPA. Like, we're gonna do a rulemaking. Kids need to submit. And, like, you know, there'll be Chevron deference and you can challenge the rule. And, like, to do that whole thing. Anyways, it kind of led me down this idea that, like, our, our notion of simulation, particularly for institutions, is, like, Interestingly narrow, right? And particularly when it comes to historical simulation, where like, well we have civil war reenactors, they're kind of like a weird dying breed, but they're there, right? But we don't have like other types of historical reenactments, but like, it might be really valuable and interesting to create communities around that. And so like I was saying before we started recording, is I really want to do one that's a simulation of the Cuban Missile Crisis. But like a serious, like you would like a historical reenactment, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's like everybody would really know their characters. You know, if you're McNamara, you really know what your motivations are and your background. And literally a dream would be a weekend simulation where you have three teams. One would be the Kennedy administration. The other would be, you know, Khrushchev [00:03:35] and the Presidium. And the final one would be the, the Cuban government. Yeah. And to really just blow by blow, simulate that entire thing. You know, the players would attempt to not blow up the world, would be the idea. [00:03:46] Ben: I guess that's actually the thing to poke, in contrast to Civil War reenactment. Sure, like you know how [00:03:51] Tim: that's gonna end. Right, [00:03:52] Ben: and it, I think it, that's the difference maybe between, in my head, a simulation and a reenactment, where I could imagine a simulation going [00:04:01] Tim: differently. Sure, right. [00:04:03] Ben: Right, and, and maybe like, is the goal to make sure the same thing happened that did happen, or is the goal to like, act? faithfully to [00:04:14] Tim: the character as possible. Yeah, I think that's right, and I think both are interesting and valuable, right? But I think one of the things I'm really interested in is, you know, I want to simulate all the characters, but like, I think one of the most interesting things reading, like, the historical record is just, like, operating under deep uncertainty about what's even going on, right? Like, for a period of time, the American [00:04:35] government is not even sure what's going on in Cuba, and, like, you know, this whole question of, like, well, do we preemptively bomb Cuba? Do we, we don't even know if the, like, the warheads on the island are active. And I think I would want to create, like, similar uncertainty, because I think that's where, like, that's where the strategic vision comes in, right? That, like, you have the full pressure of, like, Maybe there's bombs on the island. Maybe there's not even bombs on the island, right? And kind of like creating that dynamic. And so I think simulation is where there's a lot, but I think Even reenactment for some of these things is sort of interesting. Like, that we talk a lot about, like, oh, the Cuban Missile Crisis. Or like, the other joke I had was like, we should do the Manhattan Project, but the Manhattan Project as, like, historical reenactment, right? And it's kind of like, you know, we have these, like, very, like off the cuff or kind of, like, stereotype visions of how these historical events occur. And they're very stylized. Yeah, exactly, right. And so the benefit of a reenactment that is really in detail Yeah. is like, oh yeah, there's this one weird moment. You know, like that, that ends up being really revealing historical examples. And so even if [00:05:35] you can't change the outcome, I think there's also a lot of value in just doing the exercise. Yeah. Yeah. The, the thought of [00:05:40] Ben: in order to drive towards this outcome that I know. Actually happened I wouldn't as the character have needed to do X. That's right That's like weird nuanced unintuitive thing, [00:05:50] Tim: right? Right and there's something I think about even building into the game Right, which is at the very beginning the Russians team can make the decision on whether or not they've even actually deployed weapons into the cube at all, yeah, right and so like I love that kind of outcome right which is basically like And I think that's great because like, a lot of this happens on the background of like, we know the history. Yeah. Right? And so I think like, having the team, the US team put under some pressure of uncertainty. Yeah. About like, oh yeah, they could have made the decision at the very beginning of this game that this is all a bluff. Doesn't mean anything. Like it's potentially really interesting and powerful, so. [00:06:22] Ben: One precedent I know for this completely different historical era, but there's a historian, Ada Palmer, who runs [00:06:30] Tim: a simulation of a people election in her class every year. That's so good. [00:06:35] And [00:06:36] Ben: it's, there, you know, like, it is not a simulation. [00:06:40] Tim: Or, [00:06:41] Ben: sorry, excuse me, it is not a reenactment. In the sense that the outcome is indeterminate. [00:06:47] Tim: Like, the students [00:06:48] Ben: can determine the outcome. But... What tends to happen is like structural factors emerge in the sense that there's always a war. Huh. The question is who's on which sides of the war? Right, right. And what do the outcomes of the war actually entail? That's right. Who [00:07:05] Tim: dies? Yeah, yeah. And I [00:07:07] Ben: find that that's it's sort of Gets at the heart of the, the great [00:07:12] Tim: man theory versus the structural forces theory. That's right. Yeah. Like how much can these like structural forces actually be changed? Yeah. And I think that's one of the most interesting parts of the design that I'm thinking about right now is kind of like, what are the things that you want to randomize to impose different types of like structural factors that could have been in that event? Right? Yeah. So like one of the really big parts of the debate at XCOM in the [00:07:35] early phases of the Cuban Missile Crisis is You know, McNamara, who's like, right, he runs the Department of Defense at the time. His point is basically like, look, whether or not you have bombs in Cuba or you have bombs like in Russia, the situation has not changed from a military standpoint. Like you can fire an ICBM. It has exactly the same implications for the U. S. And so his, his basically his argument in the opening phases of the Cuban Missile Crisis is. Yeah. Which is actually pretty interesting, right? Because that's true. But like, Kennedy can't just go to the American people and say, well, we've already had missiles pointed at us. Some more missiles off, you know, the coast of Florida is not going to make a difference. Yeah. And so like that deep politics, and particularly the politics of the Kennedy administration being seen as like weak on communism. Yeah. Is like a huge pressure on all the activity that's going on. And so it's almost kind of interesting thinking about the Cuban Missile Crisis, not as like You know us about to blow up the world because of a truly strategic situation but more because of like the local politics make it so difficult to create like You know situations where both sides can back down [00:08:35] successfully. Basically. Yeah [00:08:36] Ben: The the one other thing that my mind goes to actually to your point about it model UN in schools. Huh, right is Okay, what if? You use this as a pilot, and then you get people to do these [00:08:49] Tim: simulations at [00:08:50] Ben: scale. Huh. And that's actually how we start doing historical counterfactuals. Huh. Where you look at, okay, you know, a thousand schools all did a simulation of the Cuban Missile Crisis. In those, you know, 700 of them blew [00:09:05] Tim: up the world. Right, right. [00:09:07] Ben: And it's, it actually, I think it's, That's the closest [00:09:10] Tim: thing you can get to like running the tape again. Yeah. I think that's right. And yeah, so I think it's, I think it's a really underused medium in a lot of ways. And I think particularly as like you know, we just talk, talk like pedagogically, like it's interesting that like, it seems to me that there was a moment in American pedagogical history where like, this is a good way of teaching kids. Like, different types of institutions. And like, but it [00:09:35] hasn't really matured since that point, right? Of course, we live in all sorts of interesting institutions now. And, and under all sorts of different systems that we might really want to simulate. Yeah. And so, yeah, this kind of, at least a whole idea that there's lots of things you could teach if you, we like kind of opened up this way of kind of like, Thinking about kind of like educating for about institutions. Right? So [00:09:54] Ben: that is so cool. Yeah, I'm going to completely, [00:09:59] Tim: Change. Sure. Of course. [00:10:01] Ben: So I guess. And the answer could be no, but is, is there connections between this and your sort of newly launched macroscience [00:10:10] Tim: project? There is and there isn't. Yeah, you know, I think like the whole bid of macroscience which is this project that I'm doing as part of my IFP fellowship. Yeah. Is really the notion that like, okay, we have all these sort of like interesting results that have come out of metascience. That kind of give us like, kind of like the beginnings of a shape of like, okay, this is how science might work and how we might like get progress to happen. And you know, we've got [00:10:35] like a bunch of really compelling hypotheses. Yeah. And I guess my bit has been like, I kind of look at that and I squint and I'm like, we're, we're actually like kind of in the early days of like macro econ, but for science, right? Which is like, okay, well now we have some sense of like the dynamics of how the science thing works. What are the levers that we can start, like, pushing and pulling, and like, what are the dials we could be turning up and turning down? And, and, you know, I think there is this kind of transition that happens in macro econ, which is like, we have these interesting results and hypotheses, but there's almost another... Generation of work that needs to happen into being like, oh, you know, we're gonna have this thing called the interest rate Yeah, and then we have all these ways of manipulating the money supply and like this is a good way of managing like this economy Yeah, right and and I think that's what I'm chasing after with this kind of like sub stack but hopefully the idea is to build it up into like a more coherent kind of framework of ideas about like How do we make science policy work in a way that's better than just like more science now quicker, please? Yeah, right, which is I think we're like [00:11:35] we're very much at at the moment. Yeah, and in particular I'm really interested in the idea of chasing after science almost as like a Dynamic system, right? Which is that like the policy levers that you have You would want to, you know, tune up and tune down, strategically, at certain times, right? And just like the way we think about managing the economy, right? Where you're like, you don't want the economy to overheat. You don't want it to be moving too slow either, right? Like, I am interested in kind of like, those types of dynamics that need to be managed in science writ large. And so that's, that's kind of the intuition of the project. [00:12:04] Ben: Cool. I guess, like, looking at macro, how did we even decide, macro econ, [00:12:14] Tim: how did we even decide that the things that we're measuring are the right things to measure? Right? Like, [00:12:21] Ben: isn't it, it's like kind of a historical contingency that, you know, it's like we care about GDP [00:12:27] Tim: and the interest rate. Yeah. I think that's right. I mean in, in some ways there's a triumph of like. It's a normative triumph, [00:12:35] right, I think is the argument. And you know, I think a lot of people, you hear this argument, and it'll be like, And all econ is made up. But like, I don't actually think that like, that's the direction I'm moving in. It's like, it's true. Like, a lot of the things that we selected are arguably arbitrary. Yeah. Right, like we said, okay, we really value GDP because it's like a very imperfect but rough measure of like the economy, right? Yeah. Or like, oh, we focus on, you know, the money supply, right? And I think there's kind of two interesting things that come out of that. One of them is like, There's this normative question of like, okay, what are the building blocks that we think can really shift the financial economy writ large, right, of which money supply makes sense, right? But then the other one I think which is so interesting is like, there's a need to actually build all these institutions. that actually give you the lever to pull in the first place, right? Like, without a federal reserve, it becomes really hard to do monetary policy. Right. Right? Like, without a notion of, like, fiscal policy, it's really hard to do, like, Keynesian as, like, demand side stuff. Right. Right? And so, like, I think there's another project, which is a [00:13:35] political project, to say... Okay, can we do better than just grants? Like, can we think about this in a more, like, holistic way than simply we give money to the researchers to work on certain types of problems. And so this kind of leads to some of the stuff that I think we've talked about in the past, which is like, you know, so I'm obsessed right now with like, can we influence the time horizon of scientific institutions? Like, imagine for a moment we had a dial where we're like, On average, scientists are going to be thinking about a research agenda which is 10 years from now versus next quarter. Right. Like, and I think like there's, there's benefits and deficits to both of those settings. Yeah. But man, if I don't hope that we have a, a, a government system that allows us to kind of dial that up and dial that down as we need it. Right. Yeah. The, the, [00:14:16] Ben: perhaps, quite like, I guess a question of like where the analogy like holds and breaks down. That I, that I wonder about is, When you're talking about the interest rate for the economy, it kind of makes sense to say [00:14:35] what is the time horizon that we want financial institutions to be thinking on. That's like roughly what the interest rate is for, but it, and maybe this is, this is like, I'm too, [00:14:49] Tim: my note, like I'm too close to the macro, [00:14:51] Ben: but thinking about. The fact that you really want people doing science on like a whole spectrum of timescales. And, and like, this is a ill phrased question, [00:15:06] Tim: but like, I'm just trying to wrap my mind around it. Are you saying basically like, do uniform metrics make sense? Yeah, exactly. For [00:15:12] Ben: like timescale, I guess maybe it's just. is an aggregate thing. [00:15:16] Tim: Is that? That's right. Yeah, I think that's, that's, that's a good critique. And I think, like, again, I think there's definitely ways of taking the metaphor too far. Yeah. But I think one of the things I would say back to that is It's fine to imagine that we might not necessarily have an interest rate for all of science, right? So, like, you could imagine saying, [00:15:35] okay, for grants above a certain size, like, we want to incentivize certain types of activity. For grants below a certain size, we want different types of activity. Right, another way of slicing it is for this class of institutions, we want them to be thinking on these timescales versus those timescales. Yeah. The final one I've been thinking about is another way of slicing it is, let's abstract away institutions and just think about what is the flow of all the experiments that are occurring in a society? Yeah. And are there ways of manipulating, like, the relative timescales there, right? And that's almost like, kind of like a supply based way of looking at it, which is... All science is doing is producing experiments, which is like true macro, right? Like, I'm just like, it's almost offensively simplistic. And then I'm just saying like, okay, well then like, yeah, what are the tools that we have to actually influence that? Yeah, and I think there's lots of things you could think of. Yeah, in my mind. Yeah, absolutely. What are some, what are some that are your thinking of? Yeah, so I think like the two that I've been playing around with right now, one of them is like the idea of like, changing the flow of grants into the system. So, one of the things I wrote about in Microscience just the past week was to think [00:16:35] about, like sort of what I call long science, right? And so the notion here is that, like, if you look across the scientific economy, there's kind of this rough, like, correlation between size of grant and length of grant. Right, where so basically what it means is that like long science is synonymous with big science, right? You're gonna do a big ambitious project. Cool. You need lots and lots and lots of money Yeah and so my kind of like piece just briefly kind of argues like but we have these sort of interesting examples like the You know Like framing a heart study which are basically like low expense taking place over a long period of time and you're like We don't really have a whole lot of grants that have that Yeah. Right? And so the idea is like, could we encourage that? Like imagine if we could just increase the flow of those types of grants, that means we could incentivize more experiments that take place like at low cost over long term. Yeah. Right? Like, you know, and this kind of gets this sort of interesting question is like, okay, so what's the GDP here? Right? Like, or is that a good way of cracking some of the critical problems that we need to crack right now? Right? Yeah. And it's kind of where the normative part gets into [00:17:35] it is like, okay. So. You know, one way of looking at this is the national interest, right? We say, okay, well, we really want to win on AI. We really want to win on, like, bioengineering, right? Are there problems in that space where, like, really long term, really low cost is actually the kind of activity we want to be encouraging? The answer might be no, but I think, like, it's useful for us to have, like, that. Color in our palette of things that we could be doing Yeah. In like shaping the, the dynamics of science. Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:01] Ben: I, I mean, one of the things that I feel like is missing from the the meta science discussion Mm-Hmm. is, is even just, what are those colors? Mm-Hmm. like what, what are the, the different and almost parameters of [00:18:16] Tim: of research. Yeah. Right, right, right. And I think, I don't know, one of the things I've been thinking about, which I'm thinking about writing about at some point, right, is like this, this view is, this view is gonna piss people off in some ways, because where it ultimately goes is this idea that, like, like, the scientist or [00:18:35] science Is like a system that's subject to the government, or subject to a policy maker, or a strategist. Which like, it obviously is, right? But like, I think we have worked very hard to believe that like, The scientific market is its own independent thing, And like, that touching or messing with it is like, a not, not a thing you should do, right? But we already are. True, that's kind of my point of view, yeah exactly. I think we're in some ways like, yeah I know I've been reading a lot about Keynes, I mean it is sort of interesting that it does mirror... Like this kind of like Great Depression era economic thinking, where you're basically like the market takes care of itself, like don't intervene. In fact, intervening is like the worst possible thing you could do because you're only going to make this worse. And look, I think there's like definitely examples of like kind of like command economy science that like don't work. Yes. But like, you know, like I think most mature people who work in economics would say there's some room for like at least like Guiding the system. Right. And like keeping it like in balance is like [00:19:35] a thing that should be attempted and I think it's kind of like the, the, the argument that I'm making here. Yeah. Yeah. I [00:19:41] Ben: mean, I think that's, [00:19:42] Tim: that's like the meta meta thing. Right. Right. Is even [00:19:46] Ben: what, what level of intervention, like, like what are the ways in which you can like usefully intervene and which, and what are the things that are, that are foolish and kind of. crEate the, the, [00:20:01] Tim: Command economy. That's right. Yeah, exactly. Right. Right. And I think like, I think the way through is, is maybe in the way that I'm talking about, right? Which is like, you can imagine lots of bad things happen when you attempt to pick winners, right? Like maybe the policymaker whoever we want to think of that as like, is it the NSF or NIH or whatever? Like, you know, sitting, sitting in their government bureaucracy, right? Like, are they well positioned to make a choice about who's going to be the right solution to a problem? Maybe yes, maybe no. I think we can have a debate about that, right? But I think there's a totally reasonable position, which is they're not in it, so they're not well positioned to make that call. Yeah. [00:20:35] Right? But, are they well positioned to maybe say, like, if we gave them a dial that was like, we want researchers to be thinking about this time horizon versus that time horizon? Like, that's a control that they actually may be well positioned to inform on. Yeah. As an outsider, right? Yeah. Yeah. And some of this I think, like, I don't know, like, the piece I'm working on right now, which will be coming out probably Tuesday or Wednesday, is you know, some of this is also like encouraging creative destruction, right? Which is like, I'm really intrigued by the idea that like academic fields can get so big that they become they impede progress. Yes. Right? And so this is actually a form of like, I like, it's effectively an intellectual antitrust. Yeah. Where you're basically like, Basically, like the, the role of the scientific regulator is to basically say these fields have gotten so big that they are actively reducing our ability to have good dynamism in the marketplace of ideas. And in this case, we will, we will announce new grant policies that attempt to break this up. And I actually think that like, that is pretty spicy for a funder to do. But like actually maybe part of their role and maybe we should normalize that [00:21:35] being part of their role. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. [00:21:37] Ben: I I'm imagining a world where There are, where this, like, sort of the macro science is as divisive as [00:21:47] Tim: macroeconomics. [00:21:48] Ben: Right? Because you have, you have your like, your, your like, hardcore free market people. Yeah. Zero government intervention. Yeah, that's right. No antitrust. No like, you know, like abolish the Fed. Right, right. All of that. Yeah, yeah. And I look forward to the day. When there's there's people who are doing the same thing for research. [00:22:06] Tim: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah when I think that's actually I mean I thought part of a lot of meta science stuff I think is this kind of like interesting tension, which is that like look politically a lot of those people in the space are Pro free market, you know, like they're they're they're liberals in the little L sense. Yeah, like at the same time Like it is true that kind of like laissez faire science Has failed because we have all these examples of like progress slowing down Right? Like, I don't know. Like, I think [00:22:35] that there is actually this interesting tension, which is like, to what degree are we okay with intervening in science to get better outcomes? Yeah. Right? Yeah. Well, as, [00:22:43] Ben: as I, I might put on my hat and say, Yeah, yeah. Maybe, maybe this is, this is me saying true as a fair science has never been tried. Huh, right. Right? Like, that, that, that may be kind of my position. Huh. But anyways, I... And I would argue that, you know, since 1945, we have been, we haven't had laissez faire [00:23:03] Tim: science. Oh, interesting. [00:23:04] Ben: Huh. Right. And so I'm, yeah, I mean, it's like, this is in [00:23:09] Tim: the same way that I think [00:23:11] Ben: a very hard job for macroeconomics is to say, well, like, do we need [00:23:15] Tim: more or less intervention? Yeah. Yeah. [00:23:17] Ben: What is the case there? I think it's the same thing where. You know, a large amount of science funding does come from the government, and the government is opinionated about what sorts of things [00:23:30] Tim: it funds. Yeah, right. Right. And you [00:23:33] Ben: can go really deep into that. [00:23:35] So, so I [00:23:35] Tim: would. Yeah, that's actually interesting. That flips it. It's basically like the current state of science. is right now over regulated, is what you'd say, right? Or, or [00:23:44] Ben: badly regulated. Huh, sure. That is the argument I would say, very concretely, is that it's badly regulated. And, you know, I might almost argue that it is... It's both over and underregulated in the sense that, well, this is, this is my, my whole theory, but like, I think that there, we need like some pockets where it's like much less regulated. Yeah. Right. Where you're, and then some pockets where you're really sort of going to be like, no. You don't get to sort of tune this to whatever your, your project, your program is. Yeah, right, right. You're gonna be working with like [00:24:19] Tim: these people to do this thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think there actually is interesting analogies in like the, the kind of like economic regulation, economic governance world. Yeah. Where like the notion is markets generally work well, like it's a great tool. Yeah. Like let it run. [00:24:35] Right. But basically that there are certain failure states that actually require outside intervention. And I think what's kind of interesting in thinking about in like a macro scientific, if you will, context is like, what are those failure states for science? Like, and you could imagine a policy rule, which is the policymaker says, we don't intervene until we see the following signals emerging in a field or in a region. Right. And like, okay, that's, that's the trigger, right? Like we're now in recession mode, you know, like there's enough quarters of this problem of like more papers, but less results. You know, now we have to take action, right? Oh, that's cool. Yeah, yeah. That would be, that would be very interesting. And I think that's like, that's good, because I think like, we end up having to think about like, you know, and again, this is I think why this is a really exciting time, is like MetaScience has produced these really interesting results. Now we're in the mode of like, okay, well, you know, on that policymaker dashboard, Yeah. Right, like what's the meter that we're checking out to basically be like, Are we doing well? Are we doing poorly? Is this going well? Or is this going poorly? Right, like, I think that becomes the next question to like, make this something practicable Yeah. For, for [00:25:35] actual like, Right. Yeah. Yeah. One of my frustrations [00:25:38] Ben: with meta science [00:25:39] Tim: is that it, I [00:25:41] Ben: think is under theorized in the sense that people generally are doing these studies where they look at whatever data they can get. Huh. Right. As opposed to what data should we be looking at? What, what should we be looking for? Yeah. Right. Right. And so, so I would really like to have it sort of be flipped and say, okay, like this At least ideally what we would want to measure maybe there's like imperfect maybe then we find proxies for that Yeah, as opposed to just saying well, like here's what we can measure. It's a proxy for [00:26:17] Tim: okay. That's right, right Yeah, exactly. And I think a part of this is also like I mean, I think it is like Widening the Overton window, which I think like the meta science community has done a good job of is like trying to widen The Overton window of what funders are willing to do. Yeah. Or like what various existing incumbent actors are willing to [00:26:35] do. Because I think one way of getting that data is to run like interesting experiments in this space. Right? Like I think one of the things I'm really obsessed with right now is like, okay, imagine if you could change the overhead rate that universities charge on a national basis. Yeah. Right? Like, what's that do to the flow of money through science? And is that like one dial that's actually like On the shelf, right? Like, we actually have the ability to influence that if we wanted to. Like, is that something we should be running experiments against and seeing what the results are? Yeah, yeah. [00:27:00] Ben: Another would be earmarking. Like, how much money is actually earmarked [00:27:05] Tim: for different things. That's right, yeah, yeah. Like, how easy it is to move money around. That's right, yeah. I heard actually a wild story yesterday about, do you know this whole thing, what's his name? It's apparently a very wealthy donor. That has convinced the state of Washington's legislature to the UW CS department. it's like, it's written into law that there's a flow of money that goes directly to the CS department. I don't think CS departments need more money. I [00:27:35] know, I know, but it's like, this is a really, really kind of interesting, like, outcome. Yeah. Which is like a very clear case of basically just like... Direct subsidy to like, not, not just like a particular topic, but like a particular department, which I think is like interesting experiment. I don't like, I don't know what's been happening there, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Natural, natural experiment. [00:27:50] Ben: Totally. Has anybody written down, I assume the answer is no, but it would be very interesting if someone actually wrote down a list of sort of just all the things you [00:28:00] Tim: could possibly [00:28:00] Ben: want to pay attention to, right? Like, I mean, like. Speaking of CS, it'd be very interesting to see, like, okay, like, what fraction of the people who, like, get PhDs in an area, stay in this area, right? Like, going back to the, the [00:28:15] Tim: health of a field or something, right? Yeah, yeah. I think that's right. I, yeah. And I think that those, those types of indicators are interesting. And then I think also, I mean, in the spirit of like it being a dynamic system. Like, so a few years back I read this great bio by Sebastian Malaby called The Man Who Knew, which is, it's a bio of Alan Greenspan. So if you want to ever read, like, 800 pages about [00:28:35] Alan Greenspan, book for you. It's very good. But one of the most interesting parts about it is that, like, there's a battle when Alan Greenspan becomes head of the Fed, where basically he's, like, extremely old school. Like, what he wants to do is he literally wants to look at, like, Reams of data from like the steel industry. Yeah, because that's kind of got his start And he basically is at war with a bunch of kind of like career People at the Fed who much more rely on like statistical models for predicting the economy And I think what's really interesting is that like for a period of time actually Alan Greenspan has the edge Because he's able to realize really early on that like there's It's just changes actually in like the metabolism of the economy that mean that what it means to raise the interest rate or lower the interest rate has like very different effects than it did like 20 years ago before it got started. Yeah. And I think that's actually something that I'm also really quite interested in science is basically like When we say science, people often imagine, like, this kind of, like, amorphous blob. But, like, I think the metabolism is changing all the [00:29:35] time. And so, like, what we mean by science now means very different from, like, what we mean by science, like, even, like, 10 to 20 years ago. Yes. And, like, it also means that all of our tactics need to keep up with that change, right? And so, one of the things I'm interested in to your question about, like, has anyone compiled this list of, like, science health? Or the health of science, right? It's maybe the right way of thinking about it. is that, like, those indicators may mean very different things at different points in time, right? And so part of it is trying to understand, like, yeah, what is the state of the, what is the state of this economy of science that we're talking about? Yeah. You're kind of preaching [00:30:07] Ben: to the, to the choir. In the sense that I'm, I'm always, I'm frustrated with the level of nuance that I feel like many people who are discussing, like, science, quote, making air quotes, science and research, are, are talking about in the sense that. They very often have not actually like gone in and been part of the system. Huh, right. And I'm, I'm open to the fact that [00:30:35] you [00:30:35] Tim: don't need to have got like [00:30:36] Ben: done, been like a professional researcher to have an opinion [00:30:41] Tim: or, or come up with ideas about it. [00:30:43] Ben: Yeah. But at the same time, I feel like [00:30:46] Tim: there's, yeah, like, like, do you, do you think about that tension at all? Yeah. I think it's actually incredibly valuable. Like, I think So I think of like Death and Life of Great American Cities, right? Which is like, the, the, the really, one of the really, there's a lot of interesting things about that book. But like, one of the most interesting things is sort of the notion that like, you had a whole cabal of urban planners that had this like very specific vision about how to get cities to work right and it just turns out that like if you like are living in soho at a particular time and you like walk along the street and you like take a look at what's going on like there's always really actually super valuable things to know about yeah that like are only available because you're like at that like ultra ultra ultra ultra micro level and i do think that there's actually some potential value in there like one of the things i would love to be able to set up, like, in the community of MetaScience or whatever you want to call it, right, [00:31:35] is the idea that, like, yeah, you, you could afford to do, like, very short tours of duty, where it's, like, literally, you're just, like, spending a day in a lab, right, and, like, to have a bunch of people go through that, I think, is, like, really, really helpful and so I think, like, thinking about, like, what the rotation program for that looks like, I think would be cool, like, you, you should, you should do, like, a six month stint at the NSF just to see what it looks like. Cause I think that kind of stuff is just like, you know, well, A, I'm selfish, like I would want that, but I also think that like, it would also allow the community to like, I think be, be thinking about this in a much more applied way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:32:08] Ben: I think it's the, the meta question there for, for everything, right? Is how much in the weeds, like, like what am I trying to say? The. It is possible both to be like two in the weeds. Yeah, right and then also like too high level Yeah, that's right. And in almost like what what is the the right amount or like? Who, who should [00:32:31] Tim: be talking to whom in that? That's right. Yeah, I mean, it's like what you were saying earlier that like the [00:32:35] success of macro science will be whether or not it's as controversial as macroeconomics. It's like, I actually hope that that's the case. It's like people being like, this is all wrong. You're approaching it like from a too high level, too abstract of a level. Yeah. I mean, I think the other benefit of doing this outside of like the level of insight is I think one of the projects that I think I have is like We need to, we need to be like defeating meta science, like a love of meta science aesthetics versus like actual like meta science, right? Like then I think like a lot of people in meta science love science. That's why they're excited to not talk about the specific science, but like science in general. But like, I think that intuition also leads us to like have very romantic ideas of like what science is and how science should look and what kinds of science that we want. Yeah. Right. The mission is progress. The mission isn't science. And so I think, like, we have to be a lot more functional. And again, I think, like, the benefit of these types of, like, rotations, like, Oh, you just are in a lab for a month. Yeah. It's like, I mean, you get a lot more of a sense of, like, Oh, okay, this is, this is what it [00:33:35] looks like. Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to do the same thing for manufacturing. Huh. Right. [00:33:39] Ben: Right. It's like, like, and I want, I want everybody to be rotating, right? Huh. Like, in the sense of, like, okay, like, have the scientists go and be, like, in a manufacturing lab. That's right. [00:33:47] Tim: Yeah. [00:33:48] Ben: And be like, okay, like, look. Like, you need to be thinking about getting this thing to work in, like, this giant, like, flow pipe instead of a [00:33:54] Tim: test tube. That's right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, [00:33:57] Ben: unfortunately, the problem is that we can't all spend our time, like, if everybody was rotating through all the [00:34:03] Tim: things they need to rotate, we'd never get anything done. Yeah, exactly. [00:34:06] Ben: ANd that's, that's, that's kind of [00:34:08] Tim: the problem. Well, and to bring it all the way back, I mean, I think you started this question on macroscience in the context of transitioning away from all of this like weird Cuban Missile Crisis simulation stuff. Like, I do think one way of thinking about this is like, okay, well, if we can't literally send you into a lab, right? Like the question is like, what are good simulations to give people good intuitions about the dynamics in the space? Yeah. And I think that's, that's potentially quite interesting. Yeah. Normalized weekend long simulation. That's right. Like I love the idea of basically [00:34:35] like like you, you get to reenact the publication of a prominent scientific paper. It's like kind of a funny idea. It's just like, you know, yeah. Or, or, or even trying to [00:34:44] Ben: get research funded, right? Like, it's like, okay, like you have this idea, you want yeah. [00:34:55] Tim: I mean, yeah, this is actually a project, I mean, I've been talking to Zach Graves about this, it's like, I really want to do one which is a game that we're calling Think Tank Tycoon, which is basically like, it's a, it's a, the idea would be for it to be a strategy board game that simulates what it's like to run a research center. But I think like to broaden that idea somewhat like it's kind of interesting to think about the idea of like model NSF Yeah, where you're like you you're in you're in the hot seat you get to decide how to do granting Yeah, you know give a grant [00:35:22] Ben: a stupid thing. Yeah, some some some congressperson's gonna come banging [00:35:26] Tim: on your door Yeah, like simulating those dynamics actually might be really really helpful Yeah I mean in the very least even if it's not like a one for one simulation of the real world just to get like some [00:35:35] common intuitions about like The pressures that are operating here. I [00:35:38] Ben: think you're, the bigger point is that simulations are maybe underrated [00:35:42] Tim: as a teaching tool. I think so, yeah. Do you remember the the paperclip maximizer? Huh. The HTML game? Yeah, yeah. [00:35:48] Ben: I'm, I'm kind of obsessed with it. Huh. Because, it, you've, like, somehow the human brain, like, really quickly, with just, like, you know, some numbers on the screen. Huh. Like, just like numbers that you can change. Right, right. And some, like, back end. Dynamic system, where it's like, okay, like based on these numbers, like here are the dynamics of the [00:36:07] Tim: system, and it'll give you an update. [00:36:09] Ben: Like, you start to really get an intuition for, for system dynamics. Yeah. And so, I, I, I want to see more just like plain HTML, like basically like spreadsheet [00:36:20] Tim: backend games. Right, right, like the most lo fi possible. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's helpful. I mean, I think, again, particularly in a world where you're thinking about, like, let's simulate these types of, like, weird new grant structures that we might try out, right? Like, you know, we've got a bunch [00:36:35] of hypotheses. It's kind of really expensive and difficult to try to get experiments done, right? Like, does a simulation with a couple people who are well informed give us some, at least, inclinations of, like, where it might go or, like, what are the unintentional consequences thereof? Yeah. [00:36:51] Ben: Disciplines besides the military that uses simulations [00:36:56] Tim: successfully. Not really. And I think what's kind of interesting is that like, I think it had a vogue that like has kind of dissipated. Yeah, I think like the notion of like a a game being the way you kind of do like understanding of a strategic situation, I think like. Has kind of disappeared, right? But like, I think a lot of it was driven, like, RAND actually had a huge influence, not just on the military. But like, there's a bunch of corporate games, right? That were like, kind of invented in the same period. Yeah. That are like, you determine how much your steel production is, right? And was like, used to teach MBAs. But yeah, I think it's, it's been like, relatively limited. Hm. [00:37:35] Yeah. It, yeah. Hm. [00:37:38] Ben: So. Other things. Huh. Like, just to, [00:37:41] Tim: to shift together. Sure, sure, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess another [00:37:44] Ben: thing that we haven't really talked about, but actually sort of plays into all of this, is thinking about better [00:37:50] Tim: ways of regulating technology. [00:37:52] Ben: I know that you've done a lot of thinking about that, and maybe this is another thing to simulate. [00:38:00] Tim: Yeah, it's a model OSTP. But [00:38:04] Ben: it's maybe a thing where, this is actually like a prime example where the particulars really matter, right? Where you can't just regulate. quote unquote technology. Yeah. Right. And it's like, there's, there's some technologies that you want to regulate very, very closely and very tightly and others that you want to regulate very [00:38:21] Tim: loosely. Yeah, I think that's right. And I think that's actually, you know, I think it is tied to the kind of like macro scientific project, if you will. Right. Which is that I think we have often a notion of like science regulation being like. [00:38:35] literally the government comes in and is like, here are the kind of constraints that we want to put on the system. Right. And there's obviously like lots of different ways of doing that. And I think there's lots of contexts in which that's like appropriate. But I think for a lot of technologies that we confront right now, the change is so rapid that the obvious question always becomes, no matter what emerging technology talking about is like, how does your clock speed of regulation actually keep up with like the clock speed of technology? And the answer is frequently like. It doesn't, right? And like you run into these kind of like absurd situations where you're like, well, we have this thing, it's already out of date by the time it goes into force, everybody kind of creates some like notional compliance with that rule. Yeah. And like, in terms of improving, I don't know, safety outcomes, for instance, it like has not actually improved safety outcomes. And I think in that case, right, and I think I could actually make an argument that like, the problem is becoming more difficult with time. Right? Like, if you really believe that the pace of technological change is faster than it used to be, then it is possible that, like, there was a point at which, like, government was operating, and it could actually keep [00:39:35] pace effectively, or, like, a body like Congress could actually keep pace with society, or with technology successfully, to, like, make sure that it was conformant with, sort of, like, societal interests. Do you think that was [00:39:46] Ben: actually ever the case, or was it that we didn't, we just didn't [00:39:50] Tim: have as many regulations? I would say it was sort of twofold, right? Like, I think one of them was you had, at least, let's just talk about Congress, right? It's really hard to talk about, like, government as a whole, right? Like, I think, like, Congress was both better advised and was a more efficient institution, right? Which means it moved faster than it does today. Simultaneously, I also feel like for a couple reasons we can speculate on, right? Like, science, or in the very least, technology. Right, like move slower than it does today. Right, right. And so like actually what has happened is that both both dynamics have caused problems, right? Which is that like the organs of government are moving slower at the same time as science is moving faster And like I think we've passed some inflection [00:40:35] point now where like it seems really hard to craft You know, let's take the AI case like a sensible framework that would apply You know, in, in LLMs where like, I don't know, like I was doing a little recap of like recent interoperability research and I like took a step back and I was like, Oh, all these papers are from May, 2023. And I was like, these are all big results. This is all a big deal. Right. It's like very, very fast. Yeah. So that's kind of what I would say to that. Yeah. I don't know. Do you feel differently? You feel like Congress has never been able to keep up? Yeah. [00:41:04] Ben: Well, I. I wonder, I guess I'm almost, I'm, I'm perhaps an outlier in that I am skeptical of the claim that technology overall has sped up significantly, or the pace of technological change, the pace of software change, certainly. Sure. Right. And it's like maybe software as a, as a fraction of technology has spread up, sped up. And maybe like, this is, this is a thing where like to the point of, of regulations needing to, to. Go into particulars, [00:41:35] right? Mm-Hmm. . Right, right. Like tuning the regulation to the characteristic timescale of whatever talk [00:41:40] Tim: technology we're talking about. Mm-Hmm. , right? [00:41:42] Ben: But I don't know, but like, I feel like outside of software, if anything, technology, the pace of technological change [00:41:52] Tim: has slowed down. Mm hmm. Right. Right. Yeah. [00:41:55] Ben: This is me putting on my [00:41:57] Tim: stagnationist bias. And would, given the argument that I just made, would you say that that means that it should actually be easier than ever to regulate technology? Yeah, I get targets moving slower, right? Like, yeah, [00:42:12] Ben: yeah. Or it's the technology moving slowly because of the forms of [00:42:14] Tim: the regulator. I guess, yeah, there's like compounding variables. [00:42:16] Ben: Yeah, the easiest base case of regulating technology is saying, like, no, you can't have [00:42:20] Tim: any. Huh, right, right, right. Like, it can't change. Right, that's easy to regulate. Yeah, right, right. That's very easy to regulate. I buy that, I buy that. It's very easy to regulate well. Huh, right, right. I think that's [00:42:27] Ben: That's the question. It's like, what do we want to lock in and what don't we [00:42:31] Tim: want to lock in? Yeah, I think that's right and I think, you [00:42:35] know I guess what that moves me towards is like, I think some people, you know, will conclude the argument I'm making by saying, and so regulations are obsolete, right? Or like, oh, so we shouldn't regulate or like, let the companies take care of it. And I'm like, I think so, like, I think that that's, that's not the conclusion that I go to, right? Like part of it is like. Well, no, that just means we need, we need better ways of like regulating these systems, right? And I think they, they basically require government to kind of think about sort of like moving to different parts of the chain that they might've touched in the past. Yeah. So like, I don't know, we, Caleb and I over at IFP, we just submitted this RFI to DARPA. In part they, they were thinking about like how does DARPA play a role in dealing with like ethical considerations around emerging technologies. Yep. But the deeper point that we were making in our submission. was simply that like maybe actually science has changed in a way where like DARPA can't be the or it's harder for DARPA to be the originator of all these technologies. Yeah. So they're, they're almost, they're, they're placing the, the, the ecosystem, the [00:43:35] metabolism of technology has changed, which requires them to rethink like how they want to influence the system. Yeah. Right. And it may be more influence at the point of like. Things getting out to market, then it is things like, you know, basic research in the lab or something like that. Right. At least for some classes of technology where like a lot of it's happening in private industry, like AI. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. [00:43:55] Ben: No, I, I, I think the, the concept of, of like the metabolism of, of science and technology is like really powerful. I think in some sense it is, I'm not sure if you would, how would you map that to the idea of there being a [00:44:11] Tim: research ecosystem, right? Right. Is it, is it that there's like [00:44:17] Ben: the metabolic, this is, this is incredibly abstract. Okay. Like, is it like, I guess if you're looking at the metabolism, does, does the metabolism sort of say, we're going to ignore institutions for now and the metabolism is literally just the flow [00:44:34] Tim: of [00:44:35] like ideas and, and, and outcomes and then maybe like the ecosystem is [00:44:41] Ben: like, okay, then we like. Sort of add another layer and say there are institutions [00:44:46] Tim: that are sure interacting with this sort of like, yeah, I think like the metabolism view or, you know, you might even think about it as like a supply chain view, right? To move it away from, like, just kind of gesturing at bio for no reason, right? Is I think what's powerful about it is that, you know, particularly in foundation land, which I'm most familiar with. There's a notion of like we're going to field build and what that means is we're going to name a field and then researchers Are going to be under this tent that we call this field and then the field will exist Yeah, and then the proper critique of a lot of that stuff is like researchers are smart They just like go where the money is and they're like you want to call up like I can pretend to be nanotech for a Few years to get your money Like, that's no problem. I can do that. And so there's kind of a notion that, like, if you take the economy of science as, like, institutions at the very beginning, you actually miss the bigger [00:45:35] picture. Yes. Right? And so the metabolism view is more powerful because you literally think about, like, the movement of, like, an idea to an experiment to a practical technology to, like, something that's out in the world. Yeah. And then we basically say, how do we influence those incentives before we start talking about, like, oh, we announced some new policy that people just, like... Cosmetically align their agendas to yeah, and like if you really want to shape science It's actually maybe arguably less about like the institution and more about like Yeah, the individual. Yeah, exactly. Like I run a lab. What are my motivations? Right? And I think this is like, again, it's like micro macro, right? It's basically if we can understand that, then are there things that we could do to influence at that micro level? Yeah, right. Which is I think actually where a lot of Macro econ has moved. Right. Which is like, how do we influence like the individual firm's decisions Yeah. To get the overall aggregate change that we want in the economy. Yeah. And I think that's, that's potentially a better way of approaching it. Right. A thing that I desperately [00:46:30] Ben: want now is Uhhuh a. I'm not sure what they're, they're [00:46:35] actually called. Like the, you know, like the metal, like, like, like the [00:46:37] Tim: prep cycle. Yeah, exactly. Like, like, like the giant diagram of, of like metabolism, [00:46:43] Ben: right. I want that for, for research. Yeah, that would be incredible. Yeah. If, if only, I mean, one, I want to have it on [00:46:50] Tim: my wall and to, to just get across the idea that. [00:46:56] Ben: It is like, it's not you know, basic research, applied [00:47:01] Tim: research. Yeah, totally. Right, right, right. When it goes to like, and what I like about kind of metabolism as a way of thinking about it is that we can start thinking about like, okay, what's, what's the uptake for certain types of inputs, right? We're like, okay, you know like one, one example is like, okay, well, we want results in a field to become more searchable. Well what's really, if you want to frame that in metabolism terms, is like, what, you know, what are the carbs that go into the system that, like, the enzymes or the yeast can take up, and it's like, access to the proper results, right, and like, I think that there's, there's a nice way of flipping in it [00:47:35] that, like, starts to think about these things as, like, inputs, versus things that we do, again, because, like, we like the aesthetics of it, like, we like the aesthetics of being able to find research results instantaneously, but, like, the focus should be on, Like, okay, well, because it helps to drive, like, the next big idea that we think will be beneficial to me later on. Or like, even being [00:47:53] Ben: the question, like, is the actual blocker to the thing that you want to see, the thing that you think it is? Right. I've run into far more people than I can count who say, like, you know, we want more awesome technology in the world, therefore we are going to be working on Insert tool here that actually isn't addressing, at least my, [00:48:18] Tim: my view of why those things aren't happening. Yeah, right, right. And I think, I mean, again, like, part of the idea is we think about these as, like, frameworks for thinking about different situations in science. Yeah. Like, I actually do believe that there are certain fields because of, like, ideologically how they're set up, institutionally how [00:48:35] they're set up, funding wise how they're set up. that do resemble the block diagram you were talking about earlier, which is like, yeah, there actually is the, the basic research, like we can put, that's where the basic research happens. You could like point at a building, right? And you're like, that's where the, you know, commercialization happens. We pointed at another building, right? But I just happen to think that most science doesn't look like that. Right. And we might ask the question then, like, do we want it to resemble more of like the metabolism state than the block diagram state? Right. Like both are good. Yeah, I mean, I would [00:49:07] Ben: argue that putting them in different buildings is exactly what's causing [00:49:10] Tim: all the problems. Sure, right, exactly, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But then, again, like, then, then I think, again, this is why I think, like, the, the macro view is so powerful, at least to me, personally, is, like, we can ask the question, for what problems? Yeah. Right? Like, are there, are there situations where, like, that, that, like, very blocky way of doing it serves certain needs and certain demands? Yeah. And it's like, it's possible, like, one more argument I can make for you is, like, Progress might be [00:49:35] slower, but it's a lot more controllable. So if you are in the, you know, if you think national security is one of the most important things, you're willing to make those trade offs. But I think we just should be making those trade offs, like, much more consciously than we do. And [00:49:49] Ben: that's where politics, in the term, in the sense of, A compromise between people who have different priorities on something can actually come in where we can say, okay, like we're going to trade off, we're going to say like, okay, we're going to increase like national security a little bit, like in, in like this area to, in compromise with being able to like unblock this. [00:50:11] Tim: That's right. Yeah. And I think this is the benefit of like, you know, when I say lever, I literally mean lever, right. Which is basically like, we're in a period of time where we need this. Yeah. Right? We're willing to trade progress for security. Yeah. Okay, we're not in a period where we need this. Like, take the, take, ramp it down. Right? Like, we want science to have less of this, this kind of structure. Yeah. That's something we need to, like, have fine tuned controls over. Right? Yeah. And to be thinking about in, like, a, a comparative sense, [00:50:35] so. And, [00:50:36] Ben: to, to go [00:50:36] Tim: back to the metabolism example. Yeah, yeah. I'm really thinking about it. Yeah, yeah. [00:50:39] Ben: Is there an equivalent of macro for metabolism in the sense that like I'm thinking about like, like, is it someone's like blood, like, you know, they're like blood glucose level, [00:50:52] Tim: like obesity, right? Yeah, right. Kind of like our macro indicators for metabolism. Yeah, that's right. Right? Or like how you feel in the morning. That's right. Yeah, exactly. I'm less well versed in kind of like bio and medical, but I'm sure there is, right? Like, I mean, there is the same kind of like. Well, I study the cell. Well, I study, you know, like organisms, right? Like at different scales, which we're studying this stuff. Yeah. What's kind of interesting in the medical cases, like You know, it's like, do we have a Hippocratic, like oath for like our treatment of the science person, right? It's just like, first do no harm to the science person, you know? [00:51:32] Ben: Yeah, I mean, I wonder about that with like, [00:51:35] with research. Mm hmm. Is there, should we have more heuristics about how we're [00:51:42] Tim: Yeah, I mean, especially because I think, like, norms are so strong, right? Like, I do think that, like, one of the interesting things, this is one of the arguments I was making in the long science piece. It's like, well, in addition to funding certain types of experiments, if you proliferate the number of opportunities for these low scale projects to operate over a long period of time, there's actually a bunch of like norms that might be really good that they might foster in the scientific community. Right. Which is like you learn, like scientists learn the art of how to plan a project for 30 years. That's super important. Right. Regardless of the research results. That may be something that we want to put out into the open so there's more like your median scientist has more of those skills Yeah, right, like that's another reason that you might want to kind of like percolate this kind of behavior in the system Yeah, and so there's kind of like these emanating effects from like even one offs that I think are important to keep in mind [00:52:33] Ben: That's actually another [00:52:35] I think used for simulations. Yeah I'm just thinking like, well, it's very hard to get a tight feedback loop, right, about like whether you manage, you planned a project for 30 years [00:52:47] Tim: well, right, [00:52:48] Ben: right. But perhaps there's a better way of sort of simulating [00:52:51] Tim: that planning process. Yeah. Well, and I would love to, I mean, again, to the question that you had earlier about like what are the metrics here, right? Like I think for a lot of science metrics that we may end up on, they may have these interesting and really curious properties like we have for inflation rate. Right. We're like, the strange thing about inflation is that we, we kind of don't like, we have hypotheses for how it happens, but like, part of it is just like the psychology of the market. Yeah. Right. Like you anticipate prices will be higher next quarter. Inflation happens if enough people believe that. And part of what the Fed is doing is like, they're obviously making money harder to get to, but they're also like play acting, right? They're like. You know, trust me guys, we will continue to put pressure on the economy until you feel differently about this. And I think there's going to be some things in science that are worth [00:53:35] measuring that are like that, which is like researcher perceptions of the future state of the science economy are like things that we want to be able to influence in the space. And so one of the things that we do when we try to influence like the long termism or the short termism of science It's like, there's lots of kind of like material things we do, but ultimately the idea is like, what does that researcher in the lab think is going to happen, right? Do they think that, you know, grant funding is going to become a lot less available in the next six months or a lot more available in the next six months? Like influencing those might have huge repercussions on what happens in science. And like, yeah, like that's a tool that policymakers should have access to. Yeah. Yeah. [00:54:11] Ben: And the parallels between the. The how beliefs affect the economy, [00:54:18] Tim: and how beliefs [00:54:19] Ben: affect science, I think may also be a [00:54:21] Tim: little bit underrated. Yeah. In the sense that, [00:54:24] Ben: I, I feel like some people think that It's a fairly deterministic system where it's like, ah, yes, this idea's time has come. And like once, once all the things that are in place, like [00:54:35] once, once all, then, then it will happen. And like, [00:54:38] Tim: that is, that's like how it works. [00:54:40] Ben: Which I, I mean, I have, I wish there was more evidence to my point or to disagree with me. But like, I, I think that's, that's really not how it works. And I'm like very often. a field or, or like an idea will, like a technology will happen because people think that it's time for that technology to happen. Right. Right. Yeah. Obviously, obviously that isn't always the case. Right. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's, there's hype [00:55:06] Tim: cycles. And I think you want, like, eventually, like. You know, if I have my druthers, right, like macro science should have like it's Chicago school, right? Which is basically like the idea arrives exactly when it should arrive. Scientists will discover it on exactly their time. And like your only role as a regulator is to ensure the stability of scientific institutions. I think actually that that is a, that's not a position I agree with, but you can craft a totally, Reasonable, coherent, coherent governance framework that's based around that concept, right? Yes. Yeah. I think [00:55:35] like [00:55:35] Ben: you'll, yes. I, I, I think like that's actually the criteria for success of meta science as a field uhhuh, because like once there's schools , then, then, then it will have made it, [00:55:46] Tim: because [00:55:47] Ben: there aren't schools right now. Mm-Hmm. , like, I, I feel , I almost feel I, I, I now want there to b

Dana Okano from Hawai'i Community Foundation joins us today to talk about the needs of her home state Hawai'i, and the importance of giving back to the land that rejuvenates you. She dives into the ongoing challenge of supporting environmental and community needs. Dana and Sybil dig deeply into her freshwater initiative and many of the important priorities in Hawai'i in order to donate and support local organizations in a place that many people visit for rejuvenation.Episode Highlights:Tips and strategies for effective giving Leveraging local resources in a place that rejuvenates youFavorite grants and initiativesDana Okano Bio:Dana Okano, PhD, AICP, (she/her) is Director of the Natural Environment sector at Hawai‘i Community Foundation, and is responsible for programs such as the Hawai‘i Fresh Water Initiative, Holomua Marine Initiative, and co-chairs the Hawai‘i Environmental Funders Group. She is also Director of the EPA-funded Hawaiian Islands Environmental Finance Center, providing Technical Assistance to communities across Hawai‘i for their water needs.Prior to joining the Foundation, Dr. Okano worked for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Coral Reef Conservation Program and Coastal Zone Management Program in Saipan, CNMI. Dr. Okano also previously worked as a Planner at County of Hawai‘i Planning Department, and she began her career as a Peace Corps Volunteer serving in Benin, West Africa. Links:Holomua Marine Initiative: https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/holomua/ Hawai'i Makai Watch: http://pupukeawaimea.org/programs/makai-watch Hawai‘i Community Foundation https://www.hawaiicommunityfoundation.org If you enjoyed this episode, listen to these as well:https://www.doyourgood.com/blog/150-pooled-funds-that-protects-sharkshttps://www.doyourgood.com/blog/129-jim-enotehttps://www.doyourgood.com/blog/leveraging-public-dollarsCrack the Code: Sybil's Successful Guide to PhilanthropyBecome even better at what you do as Sybil teaches you the strategies and tools you'll need to avoid mistakes and make a career out of philanthropy.Sybil offers resources including free mini-course videos, templates, checklists, and words of advice summarized in easy to review pdfs. Check out Sybil's website with all the latest opportunities to learn from Sybil at https://www.doyourgood.com Connect with Do Your Goodhttps://www.facebook.com/doyourgoodhttps://www.instagram.com/doyourgoodWould you like to talk with Sybil directly?Send in your inquiries through her website https://www.doyourgood.com/ or you can email her directly at sybil@doyourgood.com

Dr. Jen Wilcox serves as  Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of the US Department of Energy's Office of Fossil Energy and Carbon Management (FECM). Dr. Wilcox, an expert in carbon capture, authored the seminal textbook 'Carbon Capture' in 2012. Currently on leave as the presidential distinguished Professor of Chemical Engineering and Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania, she also serves as a senior fellow at the World Resources Institute, leading their carbon removal program.In this conversation, we dive into Dr. Wilcox's transition from academia to the Department of Energy and explore the changing mandates under the Biden and Harris Administration. Key topics include direct air capture technologies, underground sequestration, and CO2 storage. The episode also touches on point source capture, technology advancements, tax credits, and incentives for carbon capture, including the extension of 45Q tax credits. Dr. Wilcox provides insights into the commercialization progress for carbon capture, market evolution, and the recent FECM carbon dioxide removal purchase pilot prize.The discussion covers the power and heat requirements of direct air capture (DAC) and point source capture, along with solutions for reducing atmospheric levels of other greenhouse gases, including methane. This is a jam-packed episode that at times, hits topics at a macro level and at other times swoops down deep into technical descriptions of DAC chemistries. Whether you're exploring a career in carbon capture or actively developing technology solutions, there's something for everyone in this episode. In this episode, we cover: [04:13]: Origins of Dr. Wilcox's 2012 book, Carbon Capture[06:16]: Progress of carbon capture technology over the past decade[12:32]: The transition from the Office of Fossil Energy to the Fossil Energy and Carbon Management[24:32]: Overview of direct air capture technologies and chemistries[32:29] Comparison of liquid vs solid sorbents for direct air capture[37:37]: Description of EPA's well classification system[44:36]: Point source capture and the state of carbon capture tech for industrial emissions[53:00]: Extension of 45Q tax credits to incentivize carbon capture[56:21]: DOE's first carbon dioxide removal purchase pilot[58:34]: Considerations around power needs for direct air capture[01:02:10]: Tech for direct air capture of methane and other non-CO2 GHGs[01:05:28]: Dr. Wilcox's parting words on the need to rapidly scale up durable carbon removal solutionsGet connected: Dr. Jen Wilcox  X / LinkedInCody Simms X / LinkedInMCJ Podcast / Collective / Instagram*You can also reach us via email at info@mcjcollective.com, where we encourage you to share your feedback on episodes and suggestions for future topics or guests.Episode recorded on Oct 24, 2023 (Published on Nov 27, 2023)

Today we will talk with two experts on IAQ in schools about the magnitude of the problem in American schools and what can be done. In recent years, comparative risk studies performed by EPA's Science Advisory Board (SAB) have consistently ranked indoor air pollution among the top five environmental risks to public health. Most people are aware that outdoor air pollution can impact their health, but indoor air pollution can also have significant and harmful health effects. EPA studies of human exposure to air pollutants indicate that indoor levels of pollutants may be two to five times — and occasionally more than 100 times — higher than outdoor levels. These levels of indoor air pollutants are of particular concern, because most people spend about 90 percent of their time indoors. Some of the consequences of poor indoor air quality in schools are: increased long-and short-term health problems for students and staff; spread of airborne infectious diseases; degraded student learning environment, which affects comfort and attendance.

In this episode, Madeline chats with Bill Patenaude, a retired mechanical engineer who used to work for the Rhode Island Department of Environmental Management. During their conversation, they discuss his bachelors degree at the University of Rhode Island, his work at the EPA, his reversion,  getting a Masters in theology, sci-fi books and his debut novel, universal vs. uniform, the importance of reverence during Mass, being counter-cultural, the importance of environmental stewardship, the Church being a refuge and source of charity, the different kinds of love, the importance of service and sacrifice, his love of teaching othersand so much more!During the course of their conversation, they make many references which you can explore. Some of these references include episode 39 of this podcast, Arthur C. Clarke, the Foundation series, the Catechism in a Year podcast, Star Wars, Gran Torino, and Avengers: Endgame.If you're interested in checking out William's writing, you can check out his blog and read his debut novel, A Printer's Choice.

Welcome to the Aphasia Access Conversations Podcast. I'm Jerry Hoepner. I'm a professor at the University of Wisconsin – Eau Claire and co-facilitator of the Chippewa Valley Aphasia Camp, Blugold Brain Injury Group, Mayo Brain Injury Group, and Thursday Night Poets.  I'm also a member of the Aphasia Access Podcast Working Group. Aphasia Access strives to provide members with information, inspiration, and ideas that support their aphasia care through a variety of educational materials and resources. I'm today's host for an episode that will feature Paula Valente and Dr. Assunção (Maria) Matos from the Portuguese Institute of Aphasia (IPA). In this episode, we'll be discussing Paula and Maria's role in building three dimensional social, LPAA in Portugal from the ground up. Biosketch: Paula Valente is a Speech and Language Therapist, social entrepreneur and responsible for the creation of IPA. She realized that there are important gaps in the therapeutic interventions that are offered to the person with aphasia in Portugal. With the support of partners in Portugal and in another countries, and with a team consisting of a speech therapist, a psychologist, a social worker and volunteers, Paula is convinced that the path will not be easy, but it's possible.   Dr. Assunção (Maria) Matos is a Lecturer at the University of Aveiro in Portugal. Her work is grounded in the WHO-ICF model and social, LPAA approaches to aphasia rehabilitation. As one of Paula's teachers, she influenced the development of the IPA and is a crucial partner in the innovative programming that they offer. Take aways: Shift to Social Approach: SLPs in Portugal moved from a medical model to a social approach in aphasia intervention, realizing the limitations of traditional speech therapy alone. Comprehensive Support Program: EPA in Portugal offers a wide range of services, including therapy, psychology, and caregiver support, aiming to enhance the lives of people with aphasia and their families. Limited Services in Portugal: EPA is the sole organization providing such extensive aphasia support in Portugal, serving the entire country, with an emphasis on online services to reach distant regions. Professional Training Focus: Assunção Matos emphasizes holistic training for speech-language pathology students, preparing them for diverse practice settings by exposing them to various intervention approaches. Fundraising Challenges: EPA faces fundraising challenges in Portugal due to limited access to funds and philanthropic support. To sustain their services, they generate revenue through clinical services, therapy programs, online courses, and book sales. They also have associates who contribute annually. Despite challenges, they are working to demonstrate the effectiveness of their approach to gain government support for sustainable funding.   Interview Transcript: Jerry Hoepner: Well, it is my privilege today to have a conversation with Paula and Maria. So, we're going to just begin talking about the programming that they've started within Portugal. And I'm just really excited to have this conversation. I think this is a unique conversation for aphasia access. Because we're really get to talk about the process of building a program within a country from the ground up from scratch. So, I think we're used to stepping into this process partway through and again. This will be a really fun conversation. So welcome, Maria and Paula. And yeah, welcome to Aphasia Access. Assunção Matos: Okay, thank you. Thank you, Jerry, for the great opportunity of being here with you, sharing our experiences and our dreams. It's an honor to be here with you. Honestly, thank you.   Paula Valente: I make my [unintelligible]. It's the same. Thank you very much. Jerry Hoepner: Absolutely. I have to say I was really privileged to have some conversations with Maria and Paula at the IARC Convention in Philadelphia last spring. So got the opportunity to meet there. And obviously really interested in learning more about your work and programming that you started in Portugal. So. we were talking just before this podcast about your name, and then you call it the EPA or the I.P.A. I was saying that in a in English we'd probably call that the Portuguese Institute of Aphasia. But I'll let you explain the name a little bit from the Portuguese standpoint. Assunção Matos: So, IPA is Instituto Português da Afasia the so it's exactly what you were saying in in in English. I.P.A. is known as EPA all over all over the country and it was decided to call the association like this? It was actually it was Paula's decision. Paulo, do you want to say something about it? Paula Valente: No, we just at a name to our legal name is another one, because in when we did the registration of the organization, we had to choose another name. So, our name is Afasia. It's like, if IPA. Afasia Epaphazia. So, our organization of the legal name is Epaphazia. But the trademark Is Instituto to Portuguese Epaphazia. That was the Portuguese Institute of Fascia. When we choose this name it was a little bit scary, remember, as soon, so I don't know if because we were afraid to do. To tell people this is a big thing we are a Institute is an institute is a reference is something that sounds like very credible. And we want to do that. But at the time it was the beginning, and we were like, I hope this will work. So was like, okay, let's do. Let's do, Let's do this with this big name, impressive name. And what's also a strategic name to show the people that we were doing something with something good, something with good basis and good principles, and the with and impact to the person the people with the afasia. So, we were a little bit afraid at the beginning, but with the responsibility we were taking. But I think it was the right choice. Jerry Hoepner: Yeah, I agree. I think it's a great name and thank you for filling in a little bit of that background. In full disclosure. There's no way I could pronounce the Portuguese version of that name. So really happy to have you do that? But yeah, this really speaks to that kind of building from, you know, from the ground up from scratch. Paula, I'm interested in a little bit more on that. How did the EPA or the EPA come about? Paula Valente: Okay. So, I was. I've been a speech therapist since 2008, and I did my practice with a Assunção. She was my teacher in the hospital and maybe she can tell a little bit. She influenced me at the time because when I finish that practice internship, I was convinced that my mission, my life mission, and my professional vocation was to work with people with aphasia in a socio model or in more psychosocial model, because she taught me that in the hospital. So, from there I study about that, I did my master in that field like my master. I'm sorry about my English, so try to understand me, please. My master was about partner training aphasia partner training, communication training. And from there I was convinced that I had to do more to help people with the Aphasia to live better, besides the aphasia I was working at the same time in hospital context, public one. And I was also working in a private clinic with patients with a phase. So, I saw the difference of get to work in more functional and communicative way with the people, with the, with the person, with the patient and his family, and in a medical model. So, I was seeing the differences I was studying, and I thought no, I would love to help the people with the aphasia to in Portugal, because I was also understanding better the public services to this, this to these persons to person with aphasia, and I started to feel that I could do more. Something started to make me dream about a common community program or center and at the time I had to I did the A social internship course, Intensive program training program that give tools that I needed to start making my dream a reality. So, at the time after I did that social entrepreneurship course, I said goodbye to my jobs and I started a pilot project. The name of Pilot project was Aphasia 3D. Because at the time I thought already to work in 3 dimensions, person with aphasia, family and friends and community. So, to achieve a better life with the aphasia I needed to working that 3 levels. So, the pilot project was aphasia 3D was the name but when he I did my pilot project I called was from Zoom at the time she was my teacher, but also she gave me orientation in my thesis master thesis a project and I call, and I talk. I talk with her. We had a conversation about these, and she was a big supporter. So, she at the big since the beginning, she told me. Paula, I am with you and I will help you. I will be on your side. Let's go. So, she was very, very important. Since the beginning, since everything I don't know. So, add in the final of that. Here the pilot project began and we started to invite some people with the aphasia, some family members, some friends of mine to be the social organization. I don't know. How do you say in America. But we, when we, we have to have a group of founders to register our organization to founder organization, we have just say, let me see. I think it's the Board of the Association. Yes, it's like we have the board. We have a structure and we invited people to do that with us. And then, born the organization the ONG EPA institute together the maybe I can now talk more about what we do but maybe someone can explain better how she influenced me to do that, because is also our passion. Assunção Matos: Well, first of all, first of all, I think I need to do a clarification. My name is Maria. I'm also Assunção, so when Paula is talking about this and some, I'm the same person to say and all other people from other countries, what can I say? I started as an speaking language therapist in the nineties and my first job as an SLP was in a cerebral palsy center with children and their families and indicators and in this kind of center we were very already at the time we were very focused in intervention, on communication. So, it was really common to work with the children, with their family members with the augmentative and alternative communication systems, low high technology. So, this was very common for this population already. So when I changed my job 2 years later, and I went to a central hospital with people with aphasia, my idea of working as an SLP was, you know, focused in communication, and not just in speech or language but thinking about people with the aphasia at the time. The medical model of intervention was the strongest one in hospitals in Portugal, maybe around the world. I'm not sure so when I started working with my patients, I thought I have to do more. This is not enough, so I was not happy about what I was doing, because after months and months of therapy my clients, they were just looking the same. They were not improving their functionality, or they were not doing their lives, as I thought they could do if I did something different. So, I start looking. I went to congresses. I went to the International Society. How many different alternative conferences by the time in the Netherlands, and I started looking, for no one uses AAC with the people with the aphasia So I started also looking for papers, and then I could find Linda Worrall, Aura Kagan, Audrey Holland and I started dreaming. So, policies, EPA is my dream, and I used to say that Paula did what I wanted to do, and I was not able to do because I couldn't just quit my job As she did so, I started at the same time I started teaching in the SLP course and in 2000 the ICF appeared. I'm trying to jump, not to be too boring and everything made sense to me. So, I started looking for different ways of working even at the hospital, and I started bringing the family, bringing the family members to the hospital. I started them trying to train my patients with the total communication approaches. I tried to do my best, because it's not easy in a medical context, you know, to change minds and to change in. That's why, Paula, she's saying she came to me as a student. I was doing this this kind of job. I was trying to apply what I've learned from AAC and children with cerebral palsy, and I was doing some experiences with my patients And also suddenly I met some people in in the Isaac Conference that I told you about few minutes ago and I got involved in a multinational project where we were trying to develop a specific software for people with aphasia to communicate better with a portable AAC device, I can say I'm very proud to be involved in in that project. And so that's how I started. That's how I started. Jerry Hoepner:  That's fantastic. It's just been fun listening to your story kind of a microcosm of things that have happened in other countries, I think, in terms of moving from the sense of the medical model isn't meeting the needs of the people that we're serving. I heard, you know, just a little bit of some of my conversations and everyone's conversations with Audrey over the years so we shift from a very medical behavioral approach to one that is more of a social functional approach. I can just hear those same threads kind of being woven into your stories. And just really, really interesting, I mean. Assunção Matos: Sorry. Sorry, sorry, Jerry. It's just to say that in Portugal no one was then I know no one was working in this swaying, in a more social approach. And Internet wasn't like it is today. So it was really hard to get access to the papers. But I also remember buying the book beyond the fascia from the connect in London and I got in love about connect. Yes, I still have it here also. And I decided, I said to my husband, I have to go to London, and I decided to go to the connect and see how they were working, and do the training the trainers course that they were that they were well, I was trying. It was hard, but I was trying to do it in a different way, because I could see my patients after months and months of therapy linguistic therapy it wasn't enough, and I felt I have to do something else. Jerry Hoepner: So insightful. And I think so many people have come to that conclusion about social approaches and the life participation approach. That Doing those impairment-based pieces alone is just not enough right? Not that they don't have a place, but alone. They're not enough. I think it's really great. I was thinking about Paula's thesis on communication partner training, and how that must just sprung out of all of these discussions, and certainly just central to a life participation approach. The other thread that I kind of heard from both of you is this idea of the dream that you started to have to create something to fill this gap? Maria, I like the way that you said that? You know you started dreaming, and Paula made that dream happen. Paula Valente: Maria knows that I am the crazy, 2 of us is necessary courage conditions of obviously, because as the sun sounds said I was married. But I didn't have children yet. So, at the time I thought, Okay, it's now or never, because soon I will have my family, and it will be very difficult for me to do this kind of choices to quit my jobs. Goodbye, my jobs! No, so it's now, and never. My husband was still in love with me so at the time was easy to convince him that I wanted to do that. I quit my job at that time. For the beginning of EPA. I was doing voluntary work. I did all without receiving anything, so that was not easy. Choice but it was necessary. A little bit of courage and a little bit of  craziness like I was. We were doing something that's in Portugal. We don't. We didn't have a big organization behind us or supporting us. So, in terms of giving us the structure or the security to do something. So, It was like doing a house from the 0 from the ground, so didn't have any money at all. So, everything was started from the 0, and it was a little bit scary. And III admit that I was a little bit crazy, but I think and persistence, because the difficulties were, and they are so almost 9 years later it years later, 8 years later, we are here but this is a big adventure, and he in still is Jerry Hoepner: Courage, persistence, a little bit of risk taking I'm not going to say that you were crazy, but those are things that help you move it along, and I can see now why you so connected with Maura Silverman and the Triangle of Aphasia Project.   Paula Valente: Yes, she was the biggest, when I started. I also. II remember very well to be on the aphasia, because the book, because when I started, my internship gave me the book to read, and I was like I come from the school with a medical model mindset, like language and speech, and she gave me the beyond the feature read this. And let's think about this in your internship. So, when I started to, okay, let's think about these programs. This center I went to connect also was my first experience with the center personal experience. And then I contact there numerous centers around the world, mainly in America, of course, but also some here in Europe and Australia to learn from them, to learn from the programs, to learn about the programs, about the social, the about the business model, how they sustain their activities, how they communicate with the community, how they articulate with another organization. So I did a lot of contacts, and I talk with many people and Maura was one of the most the most easiest person. I don't know how to say that sorry was very available, and she talked and she wrote a letter of support. She was incredible, so that was very important to me at the beginning to start to organize the structure of our programs. I can explain how we work at the moment. what we do at the moment. But I want to say also that many things have changed through the years. We learn a lot with experience, with the errors, with the feedback. That person, either. Persons with aphasia and their families told us so. We learn every year we did changes about the protocols, about the instruments about the programs, about the number of persons that we involve, the number of Anyway, many, many changes were done. And I think we will. We will do that kind of adaptations along the way, because they are very important to achieve our goal better. Okay? So, we have to listen to be aware of the impact, the results. The feedback is very important to getting better. Okay? So, what we do now is, I think our better version of the programs but I think maybe in 2 years we will be doing things differently. Jerry Hoepner: That makes sense and I think you approach this whole process in the right way by connecting to those people. And you know everything you said about Maura rings true, right that she's available, and she is excited to get me going and to share my knowledge. So why, so I would love to hear about what you're doing right now. I think you said 9 years it's been so...   Paula Valente: We, 1916 was the founding year. I started the pilot project in 2015. So, I quick myself therebefore. So, it's almost 10 years in this adventure. It's all. But the organization is only 8 years. So, when our main objective with our association, our mission is to improve the quality of life of people with the aphasia and their families so to do, that we have to we organize our working 3 targets out all the targets. Population. Okay, audiences. Okay, we work with people we work with. And for people with aphasia themselves we work with and for family members and friends and we have we have to work to the community to a more inclusive and community communication accessible community. Okay, so we have activities actions in the these 3 main, groups. Okay, for these 3 main groups for the people with aphasia and the families we have. Hmm, 2  responses. Okay, we have resources and information we wanted to give them the more resources, more information about the aphasia, about how to leave with the aphasia, how to recover the path that the different teams that are important to them to learn more about what aphasia is  And now to leave with the aphasia So we work a lot to offer to Japanese to offer resources and information in our websites in our social networks, with lives in the Facebook, with conversations online, with the workshops, with events, to talk about aphasia, to inform, etcetera. So, we work a lot to give them resources and information free for free. Okay, that's when before EPA, It was very difficult to them to find anything in Portuguese. Okay? In the Internet, or in another ways, in books or in La leaflets, leaflets. Okay? So, they didn't have many choices, many options. So now they have. If they go to our website, to our YouTube channel, to our net, Facebook, page, Instagram, they have videos. They have aphasia friendly videos. They have informational videos. They have testimonials. They have documentaries. They have many things in English that we put legend, subtitles. So, we work a lot in this field of information and resources. Okay at the same time for people with aphasia and families, we develop programs. Okay, you call programs in America and we in Portugal, we don't call that programs but we called like therapies. Okay, it's more the term for us. Your programs for us. We call therapies. We develop different therapies to give responses to the aphasia, the necessities, communication, necessities, and the goals of people with aphasia ask us for help. More concrete, more rehabilitation help. So, at the beginning we were doing only group programs. Okay, with many different types of groups. Okay? But at some point, we saw that was not for some people that was not sufficient because they needed help to communicate better, to develop resources for themselves, to adapt better to aphasia to work some psychology, psychological problems or family problems. So, the group conversational groups, communication pho, functional communication groups, they were good, but they were not, some of them to respond to their particular needs. Okay? And we started to do individual sessions with them also. So at the moment we have like a program, a response to them. So, it's like a service. Okay? That when people with aphasia ask for our help to live with aphasia, to have speech therapy. They want to. They ask us for a specialist. So, they see if a specialist team, so they ask us to help them. So, the first thing we do is an assessment, and the that assessment includes not only the language, the impact of aphasia on the language domain, but also in the participation activities like psychological states, family members, networks social network so we have, we do a global holistic assessment and then we have a reunion. We have a session that we call decision reunion. In that decision reunion we discussed with the person with aphasia in an aphasia friendly way. So, with communication, support to conversation, communication and we show the results. We explain what the evaluation show us and we discuss in in with them their main goals and then we make together a plan and that plan is not only to do things in EPA is not that focus. So, the plan is out. What I can do at the moment to feel better, to achieve my goals. Okay, something, some things they can do with our support. But other things they can do outside. So, we also give them another options. We talk with another professionals or organizations, and we help them to make decisions and go through the process. So, if they want to do something with us, we have only three objectives in the center of the process. So, everything they do they do to achieve the objectives that were clarified in that discussion in that conversation initially and then we start doing. They can do with, not with us individual and group sessions of speech, therapy, psychology, neuro psychology, communication training. All of these approaches are personalized. They follow the pace of the evolution of the person and their needs. And we also and they are all very different. So, some of them do only individual start from start doing only individual sessions. Then they go to the groups. Some of them do only groups, some of them do groups and individual. It depends on their path, their situation, their goals, and the in the continuum of care. So, where they are okay, so with the family members is the same. They are very involved since the beginning, so we will offer to them individual or group sessions that go that will help them in their needs. So, from the beginning and along the way we are always talking with them and give them what they need. So we have also caregiver groups and communication training groups and communication training individual sessions everything to promote adaptation to aphasia, to improve the relationships, the well-being, the success of interactions. We promote also meetings with people with the aphasia, and there, another with them. Sorry. We promote. Provide also meetings with another family members and in in group sessions it makes sense. Sorry about my English. Jerry Hoepner: Totally makes sense, Paula. Well, you have a just a breadth of services that you offer, and I know those have evolved kind of over the years, but very collaborative, very person centered. It seems like, you've really thought this through. You've obviously brought upon a lot of resources to do that. A couple of things I wanted to know. One is you mentioned those video resources and other resources. We'll make sure that those are available on the show notes, so people can connect and check those out even if like. I watch some of them and just to get a little taste of what they look for obviously, I don't switch Portuguese, but just valuable just to have those resources. The other thing I'm wondering about is what's the area that you serve. I mean because it seems like you may be one of the only collaborative social programs in your area. Paula Valente: Yes, we at the moment. If you want to say something, please interrupt at the moment we serve. All the country we are. We are not a big country, but unfortunately, people with aphasia in Portugal they don't have many choices, and after the rehabilitation centers or the care the main public centers that in the acute phase they go, they get, they go there, and then they go home. When they go home, the choices to continue the rehabilitation are very few. And we in Portugal we are the only organization that are doing this work, and specifically with aphasia. We people with aphasia. So, we receive calls from all over the country and, but we are in Portugal and that is the second main city in Portugal. So, we have Lisbon. That is the capital, and then we have Porto is another big city, but in North and we are in Portugal. So, we can't see everyone in Portugal, mainly the people that live near us but with COVID we started to do many teletherapy and now we have almost 50 people with aphasia doing online services. So, at the moment, we have also online groups and individual online sessions and consultation sessions that are like a specialty consultation that we do to that families that only want some someone who helps them to decide things to understand what to do next, and that help us help them to decide what to do. So, we do a lot of consultation sessions that are more periodic and we go through. We. We've talked to them through the year to see how things are going. and to give them more information about what they should expect from the rehabilitation, from the therapist, from the communication, and give them psycho education, but also orientate them. We do a lot of that kind of in-service. Okay. So now, we have many people in our presential activities in our center. But we are the only organization in Portugal. So many people from other cities are asking for help and we are trying to go to Lisbon to create some groups and some enlistment. But Lisbon. But it's something that takes time. Okay, so it's another something that will take some time to happen. And this year as soon sound, Maria will start a group also in the university. So, it's something this kind of different points of presential group. Presential groups. I think, will be the next step to give other options to the, to the persons with aphasia in Portugal.   Jerry Hoepner: Wow! What an incredible breadth of services, and literally in in terms of area. I can't imagine serving all of the people with the face that in State of Wisconsin, which is probably smaller than Portugal. So that is that's really incredible. And wow! What a service! And I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about training professionals and students, because I feel like that might be an important step for having a broader network of people that concern people with a phage throughout Portugal. Maria, are you willing to talk a little bit about some of the trainings that you've done with professionals and your connection with the university and training students? Assunção Matos: Yeah, yeah, I can only tell you about my experience. There are other schools SLP, from my perspective. What I tried to teach my students is a bit of every type of approaches, because in one side, I know that when they go to their practices, they will find some places where the medical model is still very active, so I have to prepare them in order to know how to work with people with the phase in a more linguistic approach. But at the same time, I try to tell them about social approaches and about live participation approach. And II it's not easy, because I don't have much time to do it. But I try, you know, I'm a really big fan of the ICF so I try to prepare them to know how to work according to the ICF and how to work in the different domains the ICF suggests at the same time. We have established the Protocol with the IPA at our university, the University of Avairo. So, my final students, some of them those who want to work and wishes to do their practices in the field. Some of them are going to the EPA for 16 weeks and they do their practices there, and also during that that the time they have to develop an investigation project. So, most times I try to see with Paula we share the needs of the IPA, and we try, you know, to go and to work with the students and try to do some investigation that has an impact for the EPA and for the colleagues who work there. And this is this is great work. At the same time, just to finish me and Paula, we have been doing the SCA. The supportive conversation with adults in Canada and since then, we are doing lots of lots of workshops with the health professionals in many different hospitals. I'm also trying to do some investigation about it, because we don't have it in Porto. Well, so I tried to involve my master students and we are, you know, working together, trying to change minds trying to change the settings in order to people with the face you to leave better from the beginning, when they wake up in the hospital. If they have their health professionals prepared to communicate better with them. We read it from other countries, and which really believe it. So, we are trying also to make some changes and I've started also last year. Doing some SCA work with the other students from other courses. In my university we have nursing students. We have physiotherapists. And we have radiology students. So, at the beginning of the of the year we are doing some online courses to prepare them before going to their practical settings and communicate with the people, with aphasia, or with other communication disorders. So, this is my experience. This is what we are trying to do. Jerry Hoepner: Such important work I can't imagine. I've had so many kind thought leaders and researchers and clinicians that have guided me in this process, and that it wait so much of that groundwork out. So, I just can't imagine building that from the start. And what you're doing is so important. Assunção Matos: This year we are planning to start group therapy with people with the face, you know, because I am at the moment I am 100% at university. So I left my hospital and I really miss my patients and I miss, you know, to do the to be an SLP in practice And because there are not many groups in the country, as Paulo was saying. So, we are trying to organize group therapy for people with aphasia, maybe to do also some work with their family members and the idea is to do the group therapy and trying to do some investigation at the same at the same time. Now it's better going to be the challenge for this year for me. Paula Valente: I just want to say that at the beginning we were offering some workshops and training for the professional health professionals about aphasia, about how to communicate, and other topics that are important from for them to manage better the person with the aphasia since the beginning and we started to see that the health professionals. They don't have time to do training and they don't have money they don't have. They don't want to invest in this kind of training. They want training, but they want that accessible for them so it but the accessible means free without costs and preference in their setting. So, we have to go there to give them the training, because if they have to go some an another place, they don't go. So, where LPA was finding these things and was okay, what we can do. So, one of our works was to find funding programs to fund 2 projects that are, that the main objective is train, the health professionals to communicate. And so along these lines, we did a lot of free training in settings like hospitals and rehabilitation centers, and main mainly financed by those kind of funds. Assunção Matos: Let me just highlight that we are not doing this training alone. So, we are involving people with aphasia in the training. So, we, me and Paulo, we explore the more theoretical parts and then we have people with the aphasia, with us who are the trainers in, you know, in in practice. And II also would like to highlight that this is something that we have tried from the beginning to involve people with the phase in their family members. our Vice President is a woman with the aphasia we have some family members that belong to the Board of EPA. And we from the beginning. The idea was, as Paula already said, work with them and for them and I think this is something that is really is really important. And it's very, you know, for us it's very good. It makes us feel very good about it. Jerry Hoepner: Totally agree. And I mean, it is really impressive that the amount of work that we've been certainly important work. And I get the feeling that the 2 of you probably don't sleep a whole lot. You're certainly doing a lot. I don't know a lot of good things, and you're doing them the right way. So maybe I can shift gears one more time. To talk a little bit about the business end of things. cause that's a part of building from the ground up.  Would either, if you like to start talking about your model. Paula Valente: Yes, since the beginning we wanted to be a social entrepreneurship project. So, what is that? We want to solve a social problem that the public services weren't solving. So, we have innovative responses, services, resources but we also have business model near underneath that because we wanted to. We thought, and I think I'm sorry about my English. I can't I my English day. II feel like I have a aphasia because it's like II know everything. I know what I can. I won't say, but I can say it. I don't speak English every day, so I'm sorry I'm not in the academic field, so I don't have many, many opportunities to train my name, my English, what I am saying our goal is to be sustainable and I personally believe and I think that the EPA boards are completely aligned with this is that the solutions that EPA offers to people with aphasia are not only our responsibility to sustain, to provide is something that is a responsibility from all is responsibility. Okay, I, Paul, sound the board. All this, the people involved that we have the responsibility to, because we started that. So, we have the responsibility to provide the organization, and guarantee that all is working. But in the end, the solution doesn't depend only on EPA, we need the community to achieve our goal. We need the people and their families to achieve our goal. So, everyone as responsibility in this this is, I don't have anyone with aphasia in my family. I could have aphasia someday but  is not only my responsibility to bring this to the community, or somebody that has aphasia is our responsibility, because in the end some of us really have aphasia. My family member, my neighbor, also is our responsibility. So, when we started this organization, the social organization. We want it to be sustainable. But we don't want it to be depending on funding on the States because many of our social organization in Portugal. They have the tradition of being funded by the States. They are. They have a lot of funding that comes from the States and that is a problem, because states they don't have many money to owe it. So, they don't do the better job because they don't have money sometimes. Sorry about my English. So, we thought, if you want to do better than the State, we don't,  If they have a responsibility. We want them to participate, but they don't have the only responsibility we have the wrong responsibility. But the piece, the person with the aphasia and their families that are beneficiating from our services. From these services. From this organization they also have to compensate. And as organization, we have to be aware that to be accessible to all okay, we have to be open to different kinds of participation. So, people with aphasia will compensate will pay for some services in different ways, in different measures and that was the difficulty we had to the term to at the beginning. We have to think about how to do that. So, at the moment, we have different recipes.   Jerry Hoepner: If we put maybe multiple different funders sounds like that are contributing. Is that what you mean? Paula Valente: So, we go get money from different our services, clinical services, our programs group programs, okay and individual programs. So, people with aphasia pay for part of it. If go do fundraising to pay another part and our and our objective, our goal is the community, the municipalities and the state pay another part. So, we don't have to lose our sleep. Doing fundraising is very difficult in Portugal, I think, from what I learned from other centers, our reality is different in Portugal. We don't have many we don't have access to fundings and programs and investments. And the philanthropic minds is not something very easy in Portugal, very available. So, we do fundraising in Portugal and do fundraising to help people with the aphasia. What is aphasia? What is that? So that is very, very, very, very, very difficult. So, we need to involve people with aphasia. So, they pay for their services for our services. They pay for our therapies, but they don't pay for resources. They don't pay for information. They don't pay for workshops for some of if events that we do that are open and they are invited to come. But therapy with therapists that we have to pay. They have to pay also we have services. We sell courses some of online courses. We did. In our websites, you can see mainly in Portuguese. But we have online courses with very good programs, very good professionals, international colleagues that help us to do the courses. They are another source of income, not a big one, but they help. We did a translation of some communication books from Aphasia Institute, and then we sell them to give us also some in income. So, we have members of our association and pay a contribution. Yes, like every year they pay a contribution. So, we have, some associates that do pay an annual contribution. We do a lot of fundraising and we try to develop more services to, not to people with the aphasia, but professionals that give us income to sustain the organization. So, it's a hard work. But it's in the beginning, because we, it's difficult to involve the municipalities and the States. In these solutions we have to prove that they are better, or they have major impact in in the lives of the persons with the aphasia, but also in their pockets the state pocket, because we have to prove that our support, our kind of approaches make more difference and the people with the aphasia that stay in the State. The public services consume more resources during more time And they don't go. They don't achieve their goals in the end so we are now trying to show the Government our model of work may for the in the future they maybe support some incorporate some of these approaches in their public services. So, it's another way to support. Jerry Hoepner: Yeah, that's it. I was going to say, yeah, that's a lot of work to do. I mean, you're providing all of the services you're providing a lot of the fundraising and providing a lot of education to students and professionals throughout the country at no charge in many cases. So certainly, this is a grassroots ground up kind of work. it has been a really fun conversation. And I think we did continue this conversation for hours. It sounds like, but unfortunately, we have to close it up at some point. I just want to see if there's any last thoughts that you want to share with our listeners. Assunção Matos: I just want to say that it looks like it is a lot of work but I really believe in what I'm doing. I still dream Paula is doing one of my dreams, but I still dream that in the future, if I have aphasia, I will find one of my students doing the best job with me. This is my, this is my dream. That's why I believe so much in what I'm doing in And I'm always trying, you know, to move on into and to do different things and best things because I really don't want to face the difficulties people with the aphasia yet face in Portugal, because it's different to have aphasia in Portugal, or to have aphasia in Australia, for instance and I want to do my best job so I can enjoy it in the future.   Paula Valente: I just want to say it's really worth working on a live participation approach, because it really makes all the difference in the people. It's an adventure but it's worth it. And I hope that this conversation inspired other colleagues to do the same, or to continue doing the same. Jerry Hoepner: Absolutely. I think that's a great way to end. Thank you both so much. You've been just great to have this conversation with. Really enjoyed it, and I know that our listeners were will enjoy it like you said. I hope this inspires someone else to take on this kind of work. So, thank you so much.   Assunção Matos: Thank you, Jerry. It was a pleasure. Paula Valente: It was a pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity. Jerry Hoepner: You're welcome.   Jerry Hoepner: On behalf of Aphasia Access, thank you for listening to this episode of the Aphasia Access Conversations Podcast. For more information on Aphasia Access and to access our growing library of materials go to www.aphasiaaccess.org. If you have an idea for a future podcast series or topic, email us at info@aphasiaaccess.org. Thanks again for your ongoing support of Aphasia Access.   Resources: Online courses with national and international lecturers: https://ipafasia.pt/formacao/ Mobile application for communication support and functional and social interactions:  https://ipafasia.pt/aplicacao-movel-da-afasia/ Info-graphic videos: https://ipafasia.pt/videos-informativos/

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