Pearls & Swine Podcast

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Bringing Hope and Healing to Targets of Abusive Leadership in Christian Organizations. Giving voice to our blogs! Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

Kelly Dehnert


    • Feb 7, 2026 LATEST EPISODE
    • weekly NEW EPISODES
    • 9m AVG DURATION
    • 155 EPISODES


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    Latest episodes from Pearls & Swine Podcast

    Bowing the Knee to Pharisaism: It Never Goes Well

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 7, 2026 8:58


    Pharisaism cannot be mollified. Paul, nor Jesus, ever makes excuses for it. Pharisaic teaching and practice are destructive.

    The Effective Leader: Temperance, Empathy, and Humility

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 4, 2026 8:08


    A friend of mine says, "Leadership is easy when things are easy. But real leadership happens when things are difficult."It is in those challenging times that the real heart of the leader becomes evident. All sorts of airs can be put on when everyone is getting along, the production is going strong, relationships are amicable.

    Followership: Obedience to Toxic Leadership

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 2, 2026 6:08


    Scripture is full of twists and turns that help us navigate the complexities of our world. One such twist is how Scripture handles "turning the other cheek" (Matthew 5:39). Do we with toxic leaders?

    Hypocricy: Boasting of Rightness, Living Wrong

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 31, 2026 7:40


    One of the most damaging things to an organization is a leader who is a hypocrite. The Oxford Dictionary defines hypocrisy as the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

    James and Oppression 4: Hear the Cries

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 27, 2026 8:13


    In this four-part series on the book of James I have sought to look into how the brother of Jesus handles the evil of abusive behavior and motives. This final installment looks at how James wraps up his theme. It is very helpful in providing the prescription for leaders seeking to turn from abusiveness.

    James and Oppression 3: Concupiscence

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 24, 2026 9:02


    In the American church we have a determined focus on desires for wrongful sex, but James—the writer of the book by that name in the New Testament—has a distinctively different focus: broken relationships. He zeros in on fights of which there are many between a toxic leader and his/her subordinates.

    James and Oppression 2: The Center of Toxic Leadership

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 24, 2026 5:22


    In this second look at the book of James, we will consider the center of toxic leadership. As was noted in part one of this series, much teaching in leadership circles looks at the outward behavior of the leader as the standard. But that isn't the standard for Christians.

    James and Oppression 1: Murderous Words

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 12, 2026 7:54


    The book of James has profound insights on oppressive leadership, hypocrisy, and the power of words in Christian contexts. This is the first in a series on James and oppression.

    What's Their Problem: Diagnosing Toxic Leaders

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 12, 2026 18:47


    Have you wondered why your boss acts the way he does? This is a study of personality disorders and other behavioral problems toxic leaders commonly have.

    Submission and the Harsh Boss: 1 Peter 2:18

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 7, 2026 9:29


    In my own experience with toxic leaders, it was common to hear 1 Peter 2:18 quoted or paraphrased by those who wished to protect the authority of leaders. But there is much more to the passage than meets the eye.

    The Heart of Leadership: Seeing Subordinates as Souls

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 7, 2026 10:10


    What would leadership look like if the leader viewed his or her subordinates as living souls? What does that even mean?

    On Forgiving Because You Have Been Forgiven: There are Qualifications However

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 21, 2025 10:40


    According to much of Scripture on forgiveness, the one who needs forgiveness, needs to ask for forgiveness in order to receive it. But there is another kind of forgiveness.

    Jealousy and Leadership: A Toxic Mix

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 17, 2025 5:50


    For the leader who considers his authority questioned whenever another human being in his orbit receives accolades for his or her skills, the temptation to not only covet but attempt control over that gifted one is a problem.

    The Gold Standard: When Unacceptable is Better than Those Others

    Play Episode Listen Later Nov 12, 2025 4:49


    In the domestic violence world it is common to hear, "Well at least he doesn't hit her." We see the same dynamic in the organization when fellow leaders, boards, or even co-workers suggest that the boss isn't as bad as the last guy.

    A Servant vs. a Do[e]g: Complicity with Toxic Leaders

    Play Episode Listen Later Oct 1, 2025 9:36


    How do organizations develop systemically abusive leadership? Whether in Nazi Germany or a church in a small town, followers can have a huge impact.

    The Heart of [Abusive] Leadership: Becoming leaders with a desire for the good and the capacity to carry it out

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 11, 2025 5:53


    When seeking change in an abusive leader, it must be kept in mind that he or she is deeply deceived. And this is why abuse advocates have so little confidence in the abusive leader to change.

    Go On and Kiss the Girl: People-Pleaser-Ahab

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 25, 2025 6:23


    I think I have King Ahab figured out...he is a people-pleaser. This is how people-pleasing and leadership can make a mess.

    Ted's Story: A Band of Brothers

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 24, 2025 11:44


    Ted's story is hard to even start the telling. His story is a call to the church to be the church.

    Image Management: Lying to the World

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 21, 2025 8:43


    Image management can be a temptation for churches and Christian organizations. We all want others to see us personally in the best light and that gets transferred into how we market our church or organization.

    Mission Agency Leaders & Matthew 18

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 19, 2025 10:24


    Sandi has worked for mission agencies almost her entire adult career. And she has experienced multiple toxic leaders in nearly all those agencies.

    The 2nd Chair: Suffering a Toxic Leader When 2nd in Command

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 19, 2025 10:39


    Being an Assistant can be very difficult when serving under a toxic leader. Here is some help.

    Sin or Safety: Where is Our Focus?

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 18, 2025 11:25


    When it comes to abuse, are we more focused on sin or safety?

    Shalom: Peace in the Serving

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 23, 2025 10:10


    Beat up relationships, financial struggle, and thankless service are commonplace in our service in God's kingdom. We find shalom (peace) knowing God is in our work. However, there is an added layer of trial when the employee serves under a toxic leader.

    The Golden Rule: How Can Leaders Interpret it Accurately?

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 23, 2025 7:22


    No matter your background, you have likely heard this maxim used. It is simple, to the point, and can be helpful in determining a course of action that is selfless. But is there another interpretation of it that is biblical?

    How Toxic Leaders Respond to Strength: Toxic Leadership Goes from Bad to Worse

    Play Episode Listen Later May 5, 2025 8:35


    The toxic leader will be threatened by the slightest show of strength from subordinates. This was the story of the new king of Egypt in the time following the death of Joseph. But it only gets worse for subordinates.

    Creating a Compliant Mega Church: Mark's Story of Abusive Pastoral Leadership

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 17, 2025 10:22


    Mark was a church planter, establishing an off-site satellite campus. He was hired by a large, multi-campus ministry to resurrect a church with less than twenty members. Mark said there were signs of toxicity he should have seen before he signed on.

    Sinking a Christian Organization: Normal Leadership Failures

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 31, 2025 10:58


    With multiple degrees and experience in psychology and business, Kets de Vries describes several toxic leadership styles in Leader on the Couch. Though he discusses at length narcissistic and anti-social leaders - unfortunately common toxins among leaders - he names several less psychotic leadership destroyers.

    Abuse Strips People of Their Hope

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 30, 2025 8:17


    The stories told by participants in my research of toxic leadership portray a range of damage wrought by abusive bosses. In my experience, there is emotional, physical, and spiritual damage done by toxic bosses to their subordinates. No one is unscathed by their abuse.

    John & Susan: The Power of Pastor

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 29, 2025 9:41


    John and Susan faced abuse from church leadership, leading to rejection and emotional harm. Despite this, they found healing in a new church community, highlighting the importance of addressing spiritual abuse.

    Sheol: For What is Imprecatory Praying Really Asking?

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 28, 2025 6:07


    Praying for those, who are so destructive to other people, to be stopped completely—sent to the grave—is a prayer for the victim and predator. It is for the victim's freedom. And, it is to stop the destruction wrought by the oppressor.

    The Failure of Boards and Preempting Toxic Strikes

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 9, 2025 8:32


    The extent of board dysfunction and lack of accountability is shocking. Boards of organizations are normally given authority and responsibility for keeping their CEOs and chairmen accountable. Yet, among the Christian organization employees who were under abusive leadership with whom I have spoken, only one board did something about the toxic leader.

    Who is the Greatest: Turn and Become Like a Child

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 8, 2025 6:21


    There was a time—and culture—when children were considered more of a bother and thought much more lowly than now. Yet, Jesus used them as a good example. Leaders, learn from the child.

    Change Agents: Who Will Stand Up?

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 7, 2025 5:38


    This is the story of so many who are intimidated by leaders. Followers who fear loss can be easily manipulated. It is how toxic leaders retain their authority over others.

    #MeToo and God's Anointed

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 7, 2025 6:26


    After the confrontation of the founder of the organization with two other high-profile Christian leaders, the founder went to his office, got on the phone, and began blackballing Graham to associates across America.

    Church Leadership: Freshly Brewed Coffee or...

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 4, 2025 12:12


    Reading the early part of Paul's letter to Titus is at once like sitting at a brightly lit sidewalk cafe with a freshly brewed coffee in hand and curled up in a corner in depression. We need these kinds of leaders.

    Leadership: Seeking the Glory of Another

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 4, 2025 11:10


    Leaders should emphasize the importance of humility and giving credit to others while encouraging leadership that fosters teamwork and values subordinates' contributions.

    Jeanie's Story: Shepherding Abuse Survivors Takes Wisdom

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 29, 2024 15:09


    It wasn't long after the honeymoon that Jeanie began suffering from her husband Richard's lack of care for his family and she suffered for nearly thirteen years from sexual abuse in their bedroom. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    Neglect in Leadership: Who Will Listen?

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 23, 2024 6:36


    After sharing her unbearable stress, Susan was nearly ignored by her church leadership. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    Laying Down Your Life as a Leader: A Lesson from the Good Shepherd

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 22, 2024 6:08


    The words Jesus gives to the crowds are hard words, but particularly hard for leaders in their cultural context. What would Jesus do? --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    Amelia and Ethan: Reading the Signs

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 21, 2024 11:54


    Ethan said there were red flags he should have seen, and to this day, several years later, lives with a certain guilt that he failed in his calling. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    Embracing Criticism: Are They Words from the LORD?

    Play Episode Listen Later Nov 22, 2024 5:56


    Criticism can be difficult to accept, but leaders should recognize it as potential guidance from God, fostering humility and growth. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    A Covenant of Peace: When the Lord Banishes Toxic Leadership

    Play Episode Listen Later Nov 2, 2024 6:51


    Toxic leadership affects many, but a future promise exists when the Lord will eradicate such leadership and provide true care. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    Advocating: Our Necessary Compassion

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 27, 2024 5:09


    Have you come to know of abuse? Has your friend told you a little of their boss or husband's abusive behavior? Scripture tells us we have a responsibility. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    Toxic Personalities: Disorders and Other Such Rot

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 25, 2024 8:17


    Whether the toxic leader has a personality disorder, or is better diagnosed as an “abuser,” which is not the same thing according to some psychologists, they are exceptional manipulators and refuse to humbly admit their failures. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    Submission and the Harsh Boss: 1 Peter 2:18

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 23, 2024 9:29


    In my own experience with toxic leaders, it was common to hear 1 Peter 2:18 quoted or paraphrased by those who wished to protect the authority of leaders. Does 1 Peter 2 mean that we blindly submit to church and parachurch leaders though they be described as liars, mean, narcissistic, and other nasty characteristics by their followers? --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    Toxic Waste Inside: Creating a Culture for Toxic Leadership

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 21, 2024 8:56


    How do the church and parachurch organizations create toxic work environments? If we know the answer to that question, maybe - just maybe - we can save our witness to a watching world from the pit! --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    Belly to Belly, Cheek for Cheek

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 19, 2024 5:21


    How should the target of a supervisor's abuse "love" him, "do good" to him, and "bless" him? I would suggest Jesus is giving examples of the principle Paul stated elsewhere that we are not to "repay...evil for evil." --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    Living in Liberty: Standing Firm

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 16, 2024 6:36


    John finds it inexplicable that “in America we are in the land of the free and home of the brave, but when [a worker's] liberty is at stake they fail to exercise their liberty.” --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    The Slide into Toxic Leadership 2: Amaziah, King of Judah

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 2, 2024 7:54


    Leaders may begin well. The LORD has given them vision for the organization they have been tasked with leading. But, in time they begin to drink the koolaid of power and self-sufficiency. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    The Slide Into Toxic Leadership: The Story of Jeroboam, King of Israel

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 27, 2024 10:13


    Toxic leadership almost always involves heightened anxiety caused by a fear of losing status or a position of leadership resulting in anger, defensiveness, and blame-shifting when confronted.  --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

    When a Leader Turns Toxic: Asa King of Judah

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 20, 2024 9:02


    There are those leaders who are simply bad. They are toxic to their core and they reap destruction in the workplace. But, there are leaders who begin well and end badly. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kelly-dehnert/support

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