People Who See

In our second conversation with marriage and family therapist Molly LaCroix, she again uses the lens of Internal Family Systems to teach us how to approach our own internal worlds with curiosity and compassion. She discusses her new book, Journey to Shalom, and how reimagining the sacred stories of scripture can help us build a bridge to our own internal world. If you loved our first conversation with Molly, don't miss it! 

Today we talk with Kristyn Komarnicki and Shae Washington of Oriented to Love, a dialogue program of Christians for Social Action. These dialogues are a brave space for Christians of different sexual orientations, gender identities, and theological convictions to pursue unity that is deeper than agreement, and to practice discerning the image of God in someone you disagree with. Kristyn and Shae teach us how to approach our own “other” with the posture of a learner and embrace the pain and vulnerability that comes with true intimacy and relationship. They help us reframe conflict not as something to be feared or avoided but as an opportunity for maturing in Christ. 

In today's interview, Alice Fryling, one of the most influential voices in modern spiritual direction, shares her story and how she discovered the art of spiritual listening and spiritual direction. She explains that the essence of spiritual direction is listening. And when we listen to people, we love them - and love heals. It is a healing ministry. She describes the mystical experience of direction in which you come alongside another and help them listen carefully to the whispers and direction of God. We hope you enjoy this beautiful conversation about the sacred, gentle, mystical experience of spiritual listening. 

Today we welcome back one of our favorite guests, ethicist Dr. David P. Gushee! In this interview we dig more deeply into his story of being cancelled by the evangelical subculture after changing his mind on LGBTQ+ theology, and how he has rebuilt after evangelicalism. He offers a vision of Christian humanism in which the infinite value of the human moves back to the center of our theology. Throughout this conversation we explore different ways of practicing Christian community that help break the stranglehold evangelicalism has had on what it means to be Christian. We hope it helps you forge a new path and a new way forward after evangelicalism. 

If you feel ecclesiologically homeless in the larger church landscape and unsure where you fit, but know that you're not ready to give up on the church. If you want to be a part of reimagining what the church looks like for our current moment - this conversation is for you! Today we talk with Keri Ladouceur, cofounder of the Post-Evangelical Collective - a community built to help you reimagine a new way forward. Keri shares her story of being shattered by faith, when all of her ways of being fell short, and how she is wrestling to cultivate Beloved communities full of mutual flourishing through the Collective. We hope their values of the way of Jesus, full inclusion, holistic justice, deep and wide formation, and a gracious posture offer you hope for a new way forward.Learn more or get connected with the Post-Evangelical Collective here!

Today Dr. Dwight Radcliff, Academic Dean for the William E. Pannell Center for Black Church Studies at Fuller Seminary shares his story, his calling, and own personal journey from CD burning youth pastor to hearing David's cries in the voice of Biggie and Tupac. We learn about Dr. Radcliff's “Hip-Hop Hermeneutic” - a bi-focaled lens that brings nitty-gritty full humanity to scriptural interpretation. Dr. Radcliff reminds us that if the word of God is alive, it's full of emotion, and looking at scripture through the lens of hip-hop highlights the deep emotions reflected in both scripture and hip-hop. This conversation invites us to ask bigger questions and to give attention and influence to the experiences that form the Black worldview.

Have you ever felt like a ministry refugee? Like your spiritual home became uninhabitable and you were forced to flee? Today we interview Dr. Cameron Lee, a professor at Fuller Theological Seminary, who uses the image of “ministry refugee” to name the experience of so many who have lost their spiritual homes and are left feeling war-torn, traumatized, and lost. Dr. Lee uses his background as a marriage and family therapist to look at the church through the lens of a family system. Through this lens he helps us examine the systems that created the toxicity and abuse that creates so many refugees. He teaches us how to offer grace and hospitality to those who have lost their homes, how to create safe spaces, and hope for healing the system.

In today's interview, Chris gives voice to the deep feelings and burning questions of evolving faith. He describes the deep feelings of loneliness, the loss of identity and the wondering, “How did I get here?” Yet by embracing the mess and letting go of certainty, he unearthed a more beautiful vision of God's love. By sharing his story, Chris reminds us that this journey of evolving faith is simply what honest faith looks like - and invites you to join him on that journey.Read Chris's full Facebook post on our blog here!Learn more about Spirituality Groups or sign up today here!Learn more about one-on-one Spiritual Direction here!

How can you be a person of peace in a world that demands you take sides? In today's episode, pastor Joel Fredrikson offers practical steps for navigating conflict and escaping the black-and-white, tribalistic mindset that dominates our (church) culture. In the face of a culture that views compassion and curiosity as weakness, he offers a different way of thinking about peacemaking that is rooted in the life and teachings of Jesus. He rejects the formulaic mindset of “3 Simple Steps to Peacemaking” and instead offers a practice of staying close to God in the process.Want to become a person of peace? Sign up for the Spiritual Listening Cohort today! 

Do you wonder why Christians talk so much about love, but can fail to be loving when you need it most?Due to fear of vulnerability, Christians often struggle with being a supportive presence in one another's lives during times of suffering.In this conversation with Molly LaCroix, a licensed marriage & family therapist, author, & speaker, we explore how to love God and others by loving all parts of yourself. By looking at the roots of our vulnerability, Molly offers practical ways to transform fear into love through connection.Connect with Molly on Instagram @mollylacroixlmft or at her website, mollylacroix.com 

On her 31st birthday, Whitney Simpson had a stroke, and she experienced God in an MRI machine. In this conversation, Whitney shares how that moment led her into a deeply embodied spirituality. Her story invites you to use your body to listen for God - to know how your body and your spirit intertwine. She teaches you how to be present to yourself so that you can be present with God. Her gentle reminder is that it is impossible to be connected to your spirit and disconnected from your body. Today, as a spiritual director and yoga teacher Whitney invites you to use your whole self to listen for God.Connect with Whitney on Instagram @whitneyrsimpson or at exploringpeace.com or whitneyrsimpson.com. 

 As humans we are driven by the fundamental need to connect. In this interview, Krispin Mayfield, author and licensed professional counselor, uses attachment science as a framework to understand how that need to connect impacts the ways you interact with God. He describes the three attachment styles - Anxious, Shutdown, and Shame-based - and offers practical tools to heal your attachment with God. If you are longing to not only know that God loves you, but feel and experience that love, attachment science can offer a way forward. Buy his book here!

Today Esther sits down with Danielle Shroyer - spiritual director, author, speaker, and former pastor. We chat about her most recent book Original Blessing: Putting Sin in its Rightful Place and dig into questions like… What would it look like if you decided you wanted to let go of the idea of original sin?Can you believe in original goodness and still be an orthodox Christian?What does Genesis 3 mean if it doesn't mean you are fundamentally broken?Why did Jesus come into the world if it wasn't to pay the price for your total depravity?How might you live differently if you were rooted in Belovedness?You can find her at danielleshroyer.com, and @DanielleShroyer on Twitter and Instagram. Buy the book here!

Today we bring you our conversation with Kristin Barnett, Operations Director of the non-profit Neighborly. Neighborly is a relationship-based poverty relief organization advocating for biblical justice. Their mission is to deinstitutionalize charity by helping you become friends with those at a disadvantage.Kristen shares the story of Neighborly and how it has grown and evolved by humbly listening to the needs of its people. She teaches you about Neighborly's fundamental belief that helping work is not simply about meeting a need, but rather an invitation to enter into the messiness of relationships. She offers suggestions on how to shift your mindset away from one-time help and toward relationship-based models of helping that blur the lines between “us,” and “them.” Connect with Neighborly here!BIO: Kristin Barnett is a follower of Jesus originally hailing from Washington D.C., now living in Tallahassee, Florida. She and her husband James are raising two young sons, 14 chickens, and are respite foster parents. She is currently the Operations Director of the nonprofit Neighborly, overseeing the day-to-day tasks as well as all refugee initiatives. Kristin is passionate about inviting believers into a deeper understanding of who God is and how he cares for His people, particularly the foreigner and those in the margins. 

What does it look like for indigenous people to worship God with the fullness of who they are? In this interview, Dr. Kenny Wallace shares his story as an African-American Choctaw Pawnee who is living out his Christian faith in the way that was gifted to him as an indigenous person. Dr. Kenny helps us explore what it means for indigenous people to worship God in ways that honor their culture and identity. Dr. Kenny graciously answers our questions as we dive into the messiness of exploring racism, cultural appropriation, and the ways in which we have become too comfortable worshiping God only in white, Western ways. Join us as we begin to unravel our biases and learn that the way we've always experienced Christianity might not be the only way.Learn more about NAIITS here!Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

Today we sit down with Dr. Vince Bantu, Assistant Professor of Church History and Black Church Studies at Fuller Theological Seminary. Dr. Vince shares his story of growing up in racially segregated St. Louis with the idea that he needed to leave his culture and context behind in order to truly follow Jesus. He helps us unpack the ways whiteness has overtaken our understanding of what it means to be Christian. Dr. Vince powerfully reminds us that there is no way of following Jesus that is uncultural because God sees and intends each person to follow Jesus according to their own culture. He shows us the necessity of unraveling white culture from our theology and honoring and embracing other ways of knowing and following God. We explore the ways that we as white Christians can surrender our power and submit to people of color to teach us about what it means to be Christian. Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

 Today Beth and Esther sit down with one of their favorite seminary professors Dr. Larry Caldwell to talk about how we can interpret the Bible in culturally relevant ways. Whether you're a person in ministry wondering how to make the gospel relevant in your context or a person who's always been intimidated by biblical interpretation because you're never sure if you're “doing it right,” this conversation is for you! Dr. Larry helps us unpack questions like how do we honor and value the way other people view and experience the world even if it's not the way we view or experience the world? And how can our biblical interpretation honor those views and experiences? What does the gospel look like to someone who views the world differently than we do, and how can we help them to follow Jesus in a way that's meaningful to them? Dr. Larry reminds us to slow down, embrace the discomfort of the unfamiliar, and do the hard work of understanding what our people actually need from biblical interpretation.Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

Does God's call to love our enemies apply even to our theological enemies? In this conversation, Dr. David Williams, president of Taylor Seminary, helps us to expand our notion of hospitality to include welcoming the theological stranger. How do we, as Christians, display the reality of God's kingdom in the way we treat each other? How do we earn the right to speak the truth by listening well? Does our listening show our love, or our desire to win the theological argument? And what is at stake if we don't learn to listen and love well? Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

  In this episode, co hosts Esther and Melissa sit down to talk about People Who See's Beloved Cohort. Esther shares the story of how she designed the cohort and what it has meant to her to begin to see herself as the Beloved of God. She shares who she designed the cohort for, and how she believes beginning to see oneself through Eyes of Love changes everything. Melissa shares her experience of being a part of the Beloved cohort, and how finding an identity rooted in Belovedness has helped her experience healing from toxic theologies of self.To learn more about the Beloved cohort, or sign up to be a part of a Beloved cohort, visit our website here.Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC 

If you are wondering how to remain Christian after Evangelicalism, this interview is for you. Today we sit down with renowned author and Christian ethicist Dr. David P. Gushee as he shares his story of being forcibly propelled from Evangelicalism after calling for LGBTQ+ inclusion. Through his book After Evangelicalism, Dr. Gushee helps us to expand our vision of what Christianity can be, and charts a theological course for those of us wondering what's left after evangelicalism. You can connect with Dr. Gushee and subscribe to his newsletter at davidpgushee.com or @dpgushee on social media. Buy the book here!

Today we interview Amanda Waldron - a Faith Deconstruction & Reconstruction Mentor + Clinical Social Worker. You can find her at the intersection of mental health, social work, and theology. She supports thoughtful Christians and communities who are wrestling through big doubts and questions and hope to stay within the Christian faith while finding more ease and wonder in the process.  Her goal is to help people ask different questions and widen the lens of what can be possible in their Christian faith. If you've found yourself in the midst of a big deconstruction, if someone in your life is deconstructing, or if you're just wondering what all the fuss is about - this interview is for you!Learn more on her website here or follow Amanda on Instagram @heyamandawaldronMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In this interview, self-described pastor + spiritual misfit Joy Vetterlein shares her story of moving from poster child for Christianity to spiritual misfit - from growing up in the church and working in ministry to embracing a faith free of religious rules. If you have ever felt like you just don't fit in the versions of Christianity you've been handed, Joy is here to help you name your experience, feel a little less alone, and embrace your identity as a spiritual misfit. Find Joy on her website or on Instagram.Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

How does trauma affect your soul? How does it affect the way you care for your soul? And how do you even begin to care for your soul? How can you show up for someone else in the midst of their trauma? What's the difference between trauma and just a difficult situation? And why isn't the church acknowledging we need trauma-informed care? Are there ways in which the trauma of women and the stories they tell about it are ignored, especially by the church? Can spiritual direction be a critical part of our healing from the spiritual element of trauma? Our guest today, spiritual director Daniele Evans helps us answer these questions and more, so if you've been longing for a safe space to explore, we hope you find this conversation healing. To connect with Daniele, visit her website here!Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

TW: suicide, self-harm In this Interview, Lesli Hudson-Reynolds gives us the gift of their story and helps us more fully understand the complex nature of our relationships with the church. They help us understand that for many, especially those in the LGBTQIA+ community, the church is not only a place of hurt but of trauma, and choosing to return to church is a long, slow, and complicated process of wrestling with trauma and choosing to risk vulnerability. They offer us practical suggestions to overcome the fear and be better companions to those who have experienced trauma in the church. Lesi shares with courage and grace and we're grateful to Lesli for their story. To learn more about Lesli's work with Posture Shift, visit their website here!Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In our final installment of our church series, Pastor Joel Fredrikson challenges us to reject the formulaic, one-size-fits all understanding of the life of faith and instead learn to embrace the long, slow work of ministry that embodies the fierce love of Jesus. He encourages us to use Love as our litmus test for authentic faith and community, and to unravel our cultural values from the way of Jesus. 

In part 3 of our “Why Church?” series, Sara Nelson talks about her journey in ministry as a whole person - as a woman, a mom, and a social worker, and how all of those identities allow her to truly love people as they are. She teaches us about a practical kind of love that drives her ministry and rejects formulas for faith. Sara reminds us that the church should unify rather than divide, and that we are so much stronger together than we are apart. Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In part two of our series, “Why Church?” we talk with Pastor Oscar Mata about how the church can fulfill Jesus's final prayer for his church by cultivating a diverse but united church, and how we can become agents of change so that the church can begin to value what its people actually need: love & belonging over performance & perfection. Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In part one of our series, “Why church?” Pastor Matt Morrison teaches us about church history, gives us some context for the once-every-500-years-church-reform moment we're finding ourselves in, and helps us to imagine (and maybe even help create!) a more vital, faithful, and inclusive church even in the midst of an ever-changing world.Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In our quick season two opener, meet our new cohost, Melissa, hear about our September church series, and get a sneak peak of some of the amazing guests we have coming for you in season 2!

Bye-bye Season One, Hello Season Two!In this quick episode, we say goodbye to Season One and have some special announcements about Season Two, our summer break, and the big changes to come. Be sure to listen and we'll see you in September with some exciting changes for the People Who See Podcast!Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In our season one finale episode, we continue our conversation with Dr. Beth about her doctoral work in spiritual listening, and dig into questions like: How do power and privilege affect spiritual listening? Is spiritual listening appropriate in all situations? How can we learn more about spiritual listening? Resources:The People Who See WebpageFree Spiritual Disciples Handbook (PDF)Music citationMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

Today we have the delight of interviewing our very own Dr. Beth - cofounder of People Who See - about her doctoral work in spiritual listening and answers questions like: What is spiritual listening?Why is spiritual listening so desperately needed in the church right now? How can we find connection in the midst of deep disagreement? Are there tools to help us be better listeners? Resources: The People Who See WebpageFree Spiritual Disciples Handbook (PDF)Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In this episode, we talk more with spiritual director Dawn Dishman about spiritual disciplines, and she leads us through a prayer practice! What do we do when we find ourselves longing for more in our faith? How do we survive the desert moments of our faith?Why don't our current understandings of Christian spirituality include the disciplines? How can the disciplines stretch us to reimagine the ways we connect with God?How would our spiritual lives change if we approached our relationship with God the way we approached other relationships?How can we begin our own journey with the disciplines? Here are some books we reference in the episode! Formed for the Glory of God by Kyle StrobelThe Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark ComerInvitation to Solitude and Silence by Ruth Haley BartonSacred Rhythms: Arranging Our Lives for Spiritual Transformation by Ruth Haley BartonMusic citationMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

Today we are so excited to introduce you to Dawn Dishman, Beth and Esther's spiritual director! In this interview, she shares her story of discovering spiritual disciplines and helps us to answer questions like: What is spiritual direction? How does spiritual direction differ from coaching, counseling, or discipling? What are spiritual disciplines? How can spiritual disciplines change the way we view our spiritual lives? Here are some books we reference in the episode! Formed for the Glory of God by Kyle StrobelThe Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark ComerInvitation to Solitude and Silence by Ruth Haley BartonSacred Rhythms: Arranging Our Lives for Spiritual Transformation by Ruth Haley BartonMusic citationMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In part two of this conversation we dig into meaningful questions like: Why does Christianity tend to believe that the body is bad, and how can we begin to believe that our bodies are good? How has purity culture affected the way we see our bodies?How can we stop comparing traumas? How can we be good companions to survivors of trauma?Can God understand the pain of survivors of sexual violence? How can churches become more trauma-sensitive? TW: This episode includes content about sexual violence and trauma that may be difficult for some listeners. Sometimes this material can be challenging even when we least expect it. If you notice anxiety or difficult thoughts arising please give yourself space to pause, breathe, or even walk away if needed. In our life journey we are all healing from something. As we dialogue about some of life's most painful experiences please be mindful of what your body needs and know that you are loved.Here are the resources we referenced in the episode! The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der KolkChristian Practical Wisdom: What it is, Why it Matters by Bonnie Miller-McLemoreThe Dinah Project: A Handbook for Congregational Response to Sexual Violence by Monica ColemanWounded Heart: Hope for Adult Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse by Dan AllenderHow Survivors of Abuse Relate to God: The Authentic Spirituality of the Annihilated Soul by Susan Shooter Music citationMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In part one of our conversation with Sumer Bingham Musick, we hear Sumer's story, we learn about her dissertation research, and ask questions like: What is embodied theology? Does the body matter to God?What is the place of the spiritual in the midst of physical healing? Did Jesus experience sexual violence? How can the church better care for survivors? TW: This episode includes content about sexual violence and trauma that may be difficult for some listeners. Sometimes this material can be challenging even when we least expect it. If you notice anxiety or difficult thoughts arising please give yourself space to pause, breathe, or even walk away if needed. In our life journey we are all healing from something. As we dialogue about some of life's most painful experiences please be mindful of what your body needs and know that you are loved.Here are the resources we referenced in the episode! The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der KolkChristian Practical Wisdom: What it is, Why it Matters by Bonnie Miller-McLemoreThe Dinah Project: A Handbook for Congregational Response to Sexual Violence by Monica ColemanWounded Heart: Hope for Adult Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse by Dan AllenderHow Survivors of Abuse Relate to God: The Authentic Spirituality of the Annihilated Soul by Susan Shooter Music citationMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In part two of our conversation with Rev. Dr. Teri McDowell Ott we talk about about how to have hard conversations, we ask questions like: How can the church be better at having hard conversations? What is the role of privilege in these conversations? What is the difference between peacekeeping  and peacemaking?What if conversations don't go well? Is there a magic formula that will ensure these conversations go well?How do we overcome the fear of having these conversations?Here are the books we reference in the episode! Teri's Book Necessary Risks! Teri's Article for the Christian CenturyThink Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know by Adam GrantAll About Love by bell hooksJust Us: An American Conversation by Claudia RankineMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In part one of our conversation with Rev. Dr. Teri McDowell Ott, we discuss her book, Necessary Risks, and her article, “A liberal daughter discusses White privilege with her conservative father.” In this half of the conversation we ask questions like:What kind of risks do we need to take as Christians to be liberated from our fears? How can we re-center our lives to focus on thought leaders of color?What is a dominator culture and how does it change our conversations? What is the role of power and privilege in hard conversations?Here are the books we reference in the episode! Teri's Book Necessary Risks! Teri's Article for the Christian CenturyThink Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know by Adam GrantAll About Love by bell hooksJust Us: An American Conversation by Claudia RankineMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In part two of our interview with Alyssa Catalfino, we ask questions like: What assumptions have we made about Gen Z? What assumptions have others made about us? How can we learn to listen to those who are different from us? How can those of us who are older learn from those who are younger? How would we change if we saw all people as made in the Image of God? Music citationMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In part one of our interview with Alyssa Catalfino, we have the honor of hearing her story and digging into questions like:What does Gen Z need from the church? How can we hold space and grace for the church? How can we reject stereotypes and see others as whole people?What can we learn from Gen Z? How can we learn to listen to Gen Z? Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

Trigger Warning: abuse, spiritual abuseIn part two of our conversation with Regina Brunz, MA - a counselor specializing in spiritual abuse - we move from “What is spiritual abuse?” to “What can we do about it?” and tackle questions like: What is the role of intent in spiritual harm? What do I do if I think I've been spiritually abused? How can we be good companions to someone who has been spiritually abused? Why is community so important in calling out spiritual abuse? Does intent matter with spiritual abuse? What do I do if I think I have spiritually harmed someone? Why is spiritual abuse so rampant right now? Here are some resources to learn more! A Church Called Tov: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community from Emotional and Spiritual AbuseIf you're interested in connecting with Regina as a counselor, visit her website https://www.reginabrunzcounseling.com/ to learn more about her practice and schedule a consult. Music citationMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

Trigger Warning: abuse, spiritual abuseToday is part one of our conversation with Regina Brunz, MA - a counselor specializing in spiritual abuse. She helps us answer questions like: What is spiritual abuse? What are the markers that can help us identify spiritual abuse? How does spiritual abuse differ from emotional or psychological abuse? What are the symptoms of spiritual abuse? Here are some resources to learn more! A Church Called Tov: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community from Emotional and Spiritual AbuseIf you're interested in connecting with Regina as a counselor, visit her website https://www.reginabrunzcounseling.com/ to learn more about her practice and schedule a consult. Music citationMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In part two of our conversation with Melissa Cran, we hear more of Melissa's story and dig into questions like: Where do we see God in the stories of gay Christians? How do Side A and Side B Christians interact with each other? Do we really believe it's ok to disagree on this topic? How can we hold space for those we disagree with? How do we create a church culture that is more inclusive of the LGBTQ+ community?How can we change the definition of family within the church? Melissa's resources! Families at the Crossroads: Beyond Tradition & Modern Options by Rodney R. Clapp Redeeming Singleness: How the Storyline of Scripture Affirms the Single Life by Barry DanylakWashed and Waiting: Reflections on Christian Faithfulness and Homosexuality by Wesley HillTorn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate by Justin LeeSister Outsider: Essays and Speeches by Audre LordeClowning in Rome: Reflections on Solitude, Celibacy, Prayer, and Contemplation by Henri Nouwen Heavy Burdens: Seven Ways LGTBQ Christians Experience Harm in the Church by Bridget Eileeen Rivera Outlove: A Queer Christian Survival Story by Julie RodgersMusic citationMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

Today we continue listening to the stories of LGBTQ+ Christians with our interview with the amazing Melissa Cran! In part one of this interview, Melissa shares her story of her relationship with the church and we dive into questions like: What are Side A and Side B as they relate to the LGBTQ+ community? What does it look like to move from Side B to Side A? What does deconstruction look like for a gay Christian? What does it feel like to be asked to choose celibacy? How can the church support celibate gay Christians? Melissa's resources! Families at the Crossroads: Beyond Tradition & Modern Options by Rodney R. Clapp Redeeming Singleness: How the Storyline of Scripture Affirms the Single Life by Barry DanylakWashed and Waiting: Reflections on Christian Faithfulness and Homosexuality by Wesley HillTorn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate by Justin LeeSister Outsider: Essays and Speeches by Audre LordeClowning in Rome: Reflections on Solitude, Celibacy, Prayer, and Contemplation by Henri Nouwen Heavy Burdens: Seven Ways LGTBQ Christians Experience Harm in the Church by Bridget Eileeen Rivera Outlove: A Queer Christian Survival Story by Julie RodgersMusic citationMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In part two of our interview with podcaster and pastor Josh Proctor, we explore questions like: What does community look like for Side B Christians? Is “homosexual” an acceptable word to use? And how can we learn to use our language more thoughtfully? How can the church become a relevant voice in the LGBTQ+ conversation? How can the church better care for LGBTQ+ Christians? What resources are available for Christians to educate themselves? How can we be a safe space for someone to come out to? Here are some resources to learn more about Side A and Side B! Life on Side B PodcastLife on Side B BooklistPosture ShiftGuiding FamiliesReformation ProjectRevoiceChanging Our Mind by David P. GusheeMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

Today's episode is part one of our four-part series listening to the stories of LGBTQ+ Christians! Check out part one of our interview with podcaster and pastor Josh Proctor to hear his story and dig into questions like: What is it like to be a gay Christian? Do all gay Christians believe the same things about sexuality and Christianity? What are Side A and Side B as they relate to the LGBTQ+ community? How can the church find a theology of sexuality and community that works for everyone? What is a biblical vision of community? What should community look like within the Kingdom of God? Here are some resources to learn more about Side A and Side B! Life on Side B PodcastPosture ShiftReformation ProjectRevoiceMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

Trigger warning: Today's episode is about suffering, and as much as we try to approach it from a place of gentleness and care, if you're feeling especially tender, make sure you're listening in a safe place with safe people.Practically, what do I do when someone I love is suffering? What is my natural reaction to the suffering of others? How do we move into a place of balance and health when we walk with people in suffering? What is spiritual listening and how can it change the way we walk with others in suffering?  Do I have to be a super-Christian to be a good spiritual listener? What is spiritual direction and how can I get a spiritual director?Spiritual Directors InternationalTransforming CenterGrafted Life MinistriesDawn Dishman - our spiritual director! Here are some resources to learn more about spiritual listening! Books: Holy Listening: The Art of Spiritual Direction by Margaret GuentherWalking with Grief by Andy RainePodcasts:The Environmental Listening Podcast: Holy Listening interview with Whitney SimpsonYoutube: Holy Listening Part 1: Prepare and PrayHoly Listening Part 2: Engage and ListenMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

Trigger warning: Today's episode is about suffering, and as much as we try to approach it from a place of gentleness and care, if you're feeling especially tender, make sure you're listening in a safe place with safe people. There is also a mention of suicide, so if that is not a safe topic for you, maybe skip this one. Why do good people suffer? Does suffering mean you're not a good Christian? What does it mean that God is with us in our suffering? How were you taught about suffering? And what does it say about who you think God is? What is the role of community in suffering? How do we walk with people who are suffering? How do we learn the lessons that pain has to teach us? What does the Bible say about suffering? What do we do with Jesus's suffering? Here are the books we reference in the episode! Everything Happens for a Reason: And Other Lies I've Loved by Kate BowlerWhat Does the Bible Say About Suffering? By Brian Han GreggNot the God I Know: How Divorce Taught Me What it Means to be Saved by Esther NissenThe Holy Longing: The Search for a Christian Spirituality by Ronald RolheiserMusic from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In part two of our conversation around the question, “Is Quitting Weakness?” we dig into questions like: What do we do about quitting relationships? What qualifies as “toxic”? What do boundaries actually look like in everyday life? What has Christianity taught us about quitting? How do you reconcile being faithful or being called and quitting? How do we decide what is most sacred in a given situation, and is it ok if what is most sacred for you is not what is most sacred for someone else? Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In today's episode, we share our stories of quitting, and we dig into questions like: How do we learn to listen to ourselves and trust when it's right to quit and when we need to stick it out? How does brain science affect our decisions to walk away or to stick it out?What do you do with the shame of quitting if you quit something and you don't have something else lined up? What happens when others do not and cannot understand why you're walking away from something? Here's the book we reference throughout the episode! Burnout by Emily Nagoski and Amelia Nagoskihttps://www.amazon.com/Burnout-Secret-Unlocking-Stress-Cycle/dp/1984818325/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=burnout&qid=1639320437&sr=8-1 Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC

In part two of our interview with Pastor Jordan Minnich Kjesbo, we dive into questions like: What do I do if I feel like the church just isn't working for me anymore? What are the essentials of the church? What are the markers of how close we are to the heart of God and how do we measure them? How do we view success in ministry and are our models of church driven by success?How can we try to be faithful to what God is calling us to do and, ultimately, how can we stay hopeful while still asking the hard questions?Books we referenced in the episode: Preaching as Local Theology and Folk Art by Leonora Tubbs Tisdalehttps://www.amazon.com/Preaching-Local-Theology-Fortress-Resources/dp/0800627733 What is God Like? By Matthew Paul Turner and Rachel Held Evanshttps://www.amazon.com/What-Like-Rachel-Held-Evans/dp/0593193318 Radiolab Antibodies Part 1: CRISPRhttps://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/antibodies-part-1-crispr Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/your-own-worldLicense code: 1WX6GFMRRZEGMYVC