Podcasts about seawall development

In this episode, Jeff Cherry converses with Thibault Manekin CEO of Seawall Development in Baltimore. Thibault shares how his journey began with two pivotal questions: "Why are we so divided as human beings?" and "What are the creative ways we can bridge those divides?" These questions guided him through his formative years in Baltimore and later inspired founding the nonprofit Peace Players, which aimed to unite children from conflicting backgrounds through sports. Later Thibault felt compelled to explore the city he had previously overlooked. He realized that real estate, often a source of division, could be a powerful tool for community empowerment, leading him to establish Seawall Development, emphasizing conscious capitalism. He discusses using real estate for community empowerment, inspired by his experiences in Baltimore and South Africa. Thibault recounts overcoming challenges, engaging communities, and securing funding for impactful projects. The episode also touches on Thibault's involvement in the Baltimore Band of Brothers (B3), fostering deep connections and personal growth. The discussion highlights blending purpose with profitability to drive meaningful social change. About Thibault Thibault has traveled the world with his passion for bringing people together with a love of sports to help create Peace Players, a nonprofit with the mission of bringing together children from war-torn countries around the world through basketball and dialogue. PeacePlayers has since worked with over 75,000 youth from over 20 countries around the world and has trained over 2,000 coaches/changes agents. The program has won numerous global awards, including the 2007 ESPYs Arthur Ashe Courage Award. Later he started Seawall focusing its energy and resources on providing discounted apartments for teachers, collaborative office space for non-profit organizations, workforce housing, community-driven retail, public markets, launchpads for chefs, and creative space for charter schools. In 2011, Thibault was honored by President Obama's White House as a Champion for Change and Seawall's projects have received numerous local and national awards. Learn more about:  Peace Players: https://www.peaceplayers.org/  Seawall: http://www.seawall.com/ Podcast: Larger Than Yourself    Desert Island Albums/Artists List "Redemption Song" by Bob Marley "Southern Cross" by Crosby, Stills and Nash "Brown Skin Girl" by Beyoncé (from The Lion King) "What a Wonderful World" by Louis Armstrong A song by The Notorious B.I.G. (specific song not mentioned) Follow us on social media: IG: @capitalismtheremix LinkedIn: Capitalism The Remix  

Featuring Thibault Manekin, the Founder of Seawall Development in Baltimore, a social entrepreneur, and author of Larger Than Yourself:  Reimagine industries, Lead with Purpose, and Grow Ideas into Movements. (Recorded 3/4/22)      

Today it's Midday on Development.  A little later in this hour, Tom speaks with Klaus Philipsen, an architect, urban planner and the president of ArchPlan, Inc., a design firm in Baltimore. He also hosts The Community Architect blog and he's the author of Baltimore: Reinventing an Industrial Legacy City.  Philipsen discusses the proposal to revive the old "dollar house" homesteading program in Baltimore City and the different urban development strategies that might help move the needle on the more than 15,000 vacant properties scattered throughout the city. Klaus Philipsen joins us on our digital line. But we begin with a Baltimore developer who has for several years built homes and commercial properties in Remington, an historic neighborhood that borders the Johns Hopkins University Homewood Campus. He's also involved in reviving Lexington Market on Baltimore's West Side and other projects. Thibault Manekin is the co-founder of Seawall Development. Drawing on his experience running basketball leagues in South Africa and other countries that was premised on the assumption that playing together heals deep-seated wounds, Manekin has thought about how to bridge the Black and White divide in Baltimore, and transform not just buildings, but lives. He's just published a new book, Larger Than Yourself: Reimagine Industries, Lead With Purpose, & Grow Ideas into Movements. Thibault Manekin joins us on Zoom. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today on Midday, we turn our attention to development projects here in Baltimore. We begin with Lexington Market. It opened in 1782. It’s the oldest continually-running market in America. It has survived the Civil War, the Great Depression, and a six-alarm fire in 1949 that devastated its main buildings. Its storied history notwithstanding, Lexington Market is badly in need of a makeover. That makeover is underway: a $40 million dollar re-imagining of the market that is slated to be finished by 2022. The first of two rounds of vendor applications to be part of the next chapter of the market has just been completed. Some have voiced concerns about gentrification, fearing that African American and immigrant communities will be priced out of the new space. But officials with Seawall Development, who are overseeing the project, promise affordability and diversity. Tom's first guest today is Thibault Manekin, co-founder and CEO of Seawall Development. He joins us on Zoom from Brazil to describe his company's collaborative approach to re-imagining Lexington Market. Later in the program, we consider some development projects that haven't fared as well as Lexington Market. After the unrest following the death of Freddie Gray in 2015, several West Baltimore communities were targeted for economic redevelopment and revitalization. One highly touted idea was Innovation Village, near Mondawmin Mall. Launched in 2016, Innovation Village was billed as a business and tech hub that would spur investment into West Baltimore, attract startup companies, and provide residents with much-needed amenities and jobs. Today, the Innovation Project is stalled. Another ambitious development project in West Baltimore is Madison Park North, on North Avenue near the entrance to I-83. The eight-acre site was cleared a few years ago to make way for a grocery store, apartments, and health care facilities, but construction has still not commenced. Ethan McLeod, associate editor at the Baltimore Business Journal, has reported on the problems that have bedeviled these development projects, and he joins us on Zoom.

BE SURE TO SEE THE SHOWNOTES AND LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE HERE. Eve Picker: [00:00:12] Hi there. Thanks so much for joining me today for the latest episode of Impact Real Estate Investing. Today marks the first anniversary of this podcast, something I am immensely proud of.   [00:00:36] A year ago, I didn’t know that our audience would grow as it has. In fact, a year ago I wasn’t sure we would have an audience at all.  And I certainly never imagined that I would have the opportunity to talk with so many extraordinary individuals, leaders and movers in their respective fields, all doing remarkable things.  When we started the podcast, I thought we would focus on real estate and the impact it makes.  But I’ve discovered that “real estate” is a very broad industry. I’ve found a horde of people working in fascinating niches around this one big central theme – the built environment we all occupy. [00:01:26] These people work in city planning, on affordable housing, in impact investing, on mobility issues, in fintech, as architects, on sustainable development, on community capital, on equity in communities and in many other niches, pushing the boundaries of the built environment to be better for everyone.  The range of work that is being accomplished, is quite frankly, astounding. [00:01:59] I learned how big, visionary thinkers make cities better. Like Josh MacManus in How to leave places better than you find them. He’s spent quite a lot of time rebuilding downtown Detroit.  Or Tom Murphy, past mayor of Pittsburgh, who showed incredible fortitude in shepherding Pittsburgh from abandoned to reinvented in How to transform a city. And most recently, Avra Jain, who tells us all to look past the working girl on the corner in Beyond the Vagabond. When she looked she saw the future of Biscayne Boulevard.   [00:02:45] Other guests have reminded me of the power of zoning, architecture and design starting with Liz Faletta in By right, by design. Her in depth research on the impact of zoning on housing in Los Angeles provides unexpected insight.   In Atlanta, Eric Kronberg convinced me yet again of the importance of salvaging architecture in The zoning whisperer.   Christine Mondor reinforces the idea that architects can influence the future of cities in The power of design.   And Lorenzo Perez’s creativity as a real estate developer in Phoenix caught me off guard in Real estate artist. His approach to transforming ugly desert architecture into beautiful community spaces is wildly creative. [00:03:44] Let’s not forget the housing crisis. Lots of my guests are all in looking for big solutions. John Perfitt and Jason Neville are tackling homeless housing in Los Angeles by re-introducing iconic architecture, in Hungry for disruption; Molly McCabe describes the unusual approach of the Lotus Campaign in Capital is just a tool. Jonathan Tate takes an architect’s approach by focusing on the value of odd lots and the houses you can build on them in Lead by example. Scott Choppin is tackling multi-generational workforce housing in The contrarian developer, an important niche that has gone unnoticed by other housing developers. [00:04:31] Matt Hoffman is focusing instead on how technology might solve the crisis in 7.4 million short. Rebecca Foster, in San Francisco, is busy saving existing affordable housing through financial tools on Accelerating affordable housing. Brian Gaudio has a modular housing solution in Scaling up. And Thibault Manekin (T-bo) of Seawall Development is focusing on specific communities, affordability and astounding preservation efforts in Choose your own rent. [00:05:22] Across the Pacific Ocean, Australian architect Jeremy McCleod has figured out how to deliver Sustainable, affordable and beautiful housing in a market that most people can’t afford. Fellow Australian, Kris Daff, is tackling the same problem in a different way. He’s Assembling communities and offering them a path to home ownership.   And across the Atlantic Ocean Marc Koehler is turning the architectural design process upside down by first curating communities and then designing a building around them in his Superlofts project.  It’s super fantastic!  [00:06:08] Community development and social equity have moved into the foreground this year, and I expect will even more so next.   Brian Murray is Embedded in community in Philadelphia, working on projects that provide equitable opportunity for everyone. Josh Lavrinc has spent his career squarely focused on Advancing community development, through capital raising and real estate development Emerick Paul Patterson is busy experimenting with inclusionary community tactics in New York. Listen to his love of diversity in Delicious Urban Soup. [00:06:47] In West Virginia, Brandon Dennison is experimenting as only an entrepreneur can, on how to end generational poverty in A bold experiment in coal country. John Folan, who heads a department of architecture, wants to make sure that the next generation of architects understand the meaning of equity. For John, Equity is the thread. Majora Carter has gone from Revitalization strategist to barista in her efforts to bring equity to the South Bronx, one of the poorest zip codes in the country, and where she lives. “Nobody should have to move out of their neighborhood to live in a better one,” says Majora. Sadie McKeown, in Political will and community, has seen firsthand the influence of good and steady political leadership in building better communities. [00:07:43] Justin Garrett Moore has a day job ensuring the quality of public space in New York City.  But on the weekends, he’s knee-deep in redeveloping the community he grew up in. Hear what he’s up against as a black man in Black, white and red(lining). Adam Sgrenci is showing communities how they can control their own destinies, andn educating developers on how to Co-create. Adrian Washington has been developing in Opportunity Zones before they were a thing. He decided a long time ago that Greenfields are boring. And Katie Swenson is the quintessential community architect. Home is the most important community development concept for her. [00:08:43] For insights into economic development and financial inclusion hear Kimber Lanning who is Striving for justice in Arizona or Brian Beckon explain how to raise community capital in Share the wealth. Jorge Newbery is using Fintech to keep people in their homes. He’s saved 10,000 and counting, while Ommeed Sathe sees Big Change in his role at Prudential, helping them to build a billion-dollar impact fund. Lance Chimka who leads an Economic Development Department believes their role should always be First in. Towards growth. Christina Marsh has given herself over to the remaking of Erie in Of service. In Erie. Melissa Koide is researching and advancing ideas on financial inclusion. With Fintech. And Lyneir Richardson, wants to help 1,000 urban entrepreneurs grow their business.   [00:09:55] I’ve learned about mobility in cities, and how it touches real estate and equity, from Karina Ricks, who heads a newly energized Department of Mobility, and from Gabe Klein, a mobility rock star, who convinced me that the future of mobility will be enhanced by data in Mobility is pretty pedestrian. Harriet Tregoning is taking on a leadership role with NUMO, the New Urban Mobility Alliance, and explains why in The reluctant planner. And let’s not forget Donald Shoup, parking czar, who believes that parking is over-rated and under-compensated in Parking not required.  [00:10:38] Others think about investment in ways I never imagined. Janine Firpo is on a personal journey to ensure that every dollar she invests does good. Listen to her explain why in She’s all in. Laura Callanan is squarely focused on Connecting impact and creativity. And Mark Roderick, a crowdfunding attorney, explains how the Securities and Exchange commissions are opening the doors for Democratizing investment. And why its a huge step forward; [00:11:12] For innovation in the building industry listen to Jennifer Castenson, who surely has her finger on the pulse of new trends, in Living the Jetson life;   Or maybe you want to learn about blockchain? Listen to Sandy Selman explain how it might be applied to real estate in Digital twins; and if you are ready to embrace sustainability and saving our planet in the most wholistic way, Sandy Wiggins may just be the one to listen to in Let’s change our mindset. And if you think we need to get back to a former time, listen to Jim Kumon of the Incremental Development Alliance talk about The lost art of small-scale development.  He’s teaching small-scale developers how to get back there all over the country. [00:12:01] Phew. That’s a lot of podcasts.  I’ve enjoyed every interview with every person.  I’m in awe of them all.   But it’s time to take some time off to rest, enjoy the weather and just step back from the extraordinary last few months that has rearranged all of our lives.   We’ll be back refreshed in September with many more amazing people for you to listen to and me to learn from. Thank you so much for joining me.  Now go forth, invest a little in your community and make some change!

BE SURE TO SEE THE SHOWNOTES AND LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE HERE. Eve Picker: [00:00:13] Hi there, thanks so much for joining me today for the latest episode of Impact Real Estate Investing.   Eve: [00:00:19] My guest today is Thibault (Tee-bo) Manekin, the founder and CEO of Seawall Development. Seawall is rolling out the red carpet for teachers. They are building high quality, affordable housing, which in itself is a big task. Layer that with the inclusionary design process they employ and the fact that they are creating this housing by restoring large and stunning vacant buildings and seawall is altogether fantastic.   Eve: [00:00:55] Be sure to go to evepicker.com to find out more about Thibault on the show notes page for this episode. And be sure to sign up for my newsletter so you can access information about impact real estate investing and get the latest news about the exciting projects on my crowdfunding platform, Small change.   Eve: [00:01:15] Hi Thibault, I'm really excited to talk to you today.   Thibault Manekin: [00:01:20] Hi Eve, I'm excited to talk to you, too. Thank you for having us.   Eve: [00:01:23] It's a pleasure. So, you started your company by building quality, affordable housing for teachers, and that's a really targeted mission and I'm wondering what led you to this work?   Thibault : [00:01:36] Yes, I probably have to go back a little further than that. When I first graduated from college at around 21 years old, I helped, with two buddies, we started an international non-profit organization called Playing for Peace. It's called PeacePlayers Today. And the idea is that we would go to war-torn countries and we would use sports to get kids from two sides of a conflict, meet each other, finding common ground and eventually becoming friends. So, we raised about eight thousand dollars and was enough to get on a plane to Durban, South Africa, at the time, where we were going to try to get, use sports to get black kids and white kids post-apartheid meeting each other, finding common ground, becoming friends. And it had an amazing run with that organization, really grew it to be quite international. We had a program in Northern Ireland with Protestant and the Catholic kids, Cypress, the Middle East, with Israeli and Palestinian kids.   Thibault : [00:02:36] So in all of my travels with PeacePlayers, one of the reoccurring things that I continued to notice was that real estate had done more to tear us apart than bring us together, especially with my experience in South Africa, seeing what the apartheid government had done with townships and informal settlements. And then, as I would make trips back to my home city of Baltimore, seeing the negative effects of redlining. So I came back, I think it was around 2006 and I asked my dad, who's a hero of mine, to go out to dinner and I pitched this idea of starting a company, a real estate company, but with the idea of really reimagining the real estate industry all together so that everything that we did used buildings and the built environment to empower communities, unite our cities and help to launch really powerful ideas. You know, I had seen the impact of reimagining the sports industry to bring people together, especially young people, and I wanted to do more with it. And if real estate was indeed the most powerful connected industry on the planet, then truly reimagined, there'd be the opportunity to bring people together in ways that possibly hadn't been done before.   Thibault : [00:03:53] So, we launched this company. And, you know, we had an amazing dinner conversation around what we were going to focus on first. And my dad did spend a long time in real estate but was really passionate around education. And he had done a ton of listening to all of these new teachers and first year teachers that were showing up to Baltimore, maybe for the first time, and were having a really tough time figuring out the city. Figuring out where to live, figuring out who to live with, figuring out their classes and jumping into arguably what's the hardest profession on the planet, educating the future generation. He basically was like, there's a great opportunity to continue to listen to this community of educators and provide them what they're asking for, which at the time was collaborative, affordable, well located, funky housing that would take the mystery for them out of where to live, provide them the ability to live some place special with like-minded people, which hopefully, over time, would translate to them agreeing to stay in the classroom for longer, falling in love with education, falling in love with our city of Baltimore, and maybe even making a permanent investment in buying their own home once they had a better lay of the land and been able to save some money as a result of staying in one of our projects.   Eve: [00:05:20] So, basically really supporting the pool of teachers who serve our city and, our cities, and really can't afford to live in them anymore.   Thibault : [00:05:29] That was the idea behind it. And we coupled it with a similar thread that we'd been listening to, which was that there were all of these non-profits focused on kids and education and supporting the school system. Programs like Teach for America and Playworks and Wide-angle Youth Media and Baltimore Urban Debate League. They were spread out in dozens of buildings all over Baltimore all essentially doing the same kind of work around kids but with no ability to really deeply collaborate. And so, these non-profits who focused on kids and education and come to us and said it would be amazing if we could all be located under one roof, if we could share resources and have free conference rooms and training facilities that we don't need all of the time but that we need throughout the day at different times. And so, our first project ended up becoming called the Center for Educational Excellence. We've always looked for a cooler name than that but that's the one that's kind of stuck. And it was a adaptive reuse of one hundred thousand square foot collapsing old factory building that got turned into about 40 apartments for teachers and thirty thousand square feet of collaborative office space for the non-profits underpinning the success of the school system.   Eve: [00:06:43] That's a pretty big project to tackle for a first project.   Thibault : [00:06:46] It was funny. Yeah, we look back on it and, you know, when we first started the company, which is called Seawall, we weren't sure if it was ever going to make it. And we had kind of said that we would, you know we'd been listening to teachers for so long, we'd probably buy a little four-unit row home and converted it into four apartments for teachers and that would be the first thing that we would do, which would probably cost four or five hundred thousand dollars. And our first project ended up costing 20 million dollars and we had no business taking on a project of that scale. And, you know, we can get into the movement that came as a result of it and what really propelled us forward. But that was, yes, that was our first project.   Eve: [00:07:31] How do you involve teachers in the process of creating these buildings? You've done three now, right? Three for teachers, is that correct?   Thibault : [00:07:39] We have, we have. So, everything that we've ever done has been built inside out. And what we mean by that is that we start with the end users, the people that are going to be living and working in our buildings. It's important for us that they have a sense of pride, of authorship and ownership in what's getting created. So, we start out by deeply listening to those people that are going to be occupying our spaces. And we let them drive the direction and the program of the space. We don't ever pretend to have any of the answers. Our job's to be quietly behind the scenes, asking the questions that held their thinking forward in a way that results in a finished product that makes them really proud and allows them to be more successful in whatever it is that they're doing.   Thibault : [00:08:29] So in the case of the teachers, we assembled a group of, a focus group of about 10. We walked them through the collapsing building as we first bought it. They worked with our design team over the course of twelve months to design every square inch of their apartments. We let them pick their own amenities they needed like a resource center in the building that had access to copiers and laminating machines and staplers and hole punchers, so that they could plan their lessons within the building and not have to run out to Kinko's in the middle of the night. We did the same thing with our non-profits. We let our teachers choose their own rents based on the salaries that they had and what felt like an affordable rent for them to be paying. And we really spent a ton of time with both the teachers and the non-profits from day one, letting them design what is their building.   Thibault : [00:09:19] I want to add something to that, because there are two other levels that we really focus on. As important as the teachers are, and whoever the end user is for any specific project we're working on, equally as important is the community that we're working with that. At the end of the day, they're the ones that have been staring at these dilapidated, collapsing old buildings and it's critical that they have a seat at the table in helping to shape what those new buildings are going to get turned into.   Thibault : [00:09:50] One of the things that developers are famous for, kind of going into a community and telling the community what they're going to get, and we take the complete opposite approach. In the case of the first teacher housing project, we went to our first neighborhood association meeting, introduced ourselves and explained that a bunch of teachers and non-profits had this idea of creating the first Center for Educational Excellence and that the building that seemed to be a good fit for that was this one building in their neighborhood. And they loved the idea. And for the most part, everyone was thrilled.   Thibault : [00:10:24] And I remember this one young man stood up and raised his hand, kind of defiantly, at the end of the meeting as if he was going to oppose the project and he, he said look, as great as this is, what you're missing is a little cafe or coffee shop on the corner of Howard and Twenty Sixth Street, which is where the project was. And there is no decent place to get a fresh sandwich or a good cup of coffee in this neighborhood and that would be an amazing thing if you guys could figure out a way to program a cafe into the corner there. And then he continued to say that if we brought in a Starbucks that they would throw rocks through the window at night when we weren't there, that it was really important that it be locally owned.   Thibault : [00:11:06] So I'm sitting there, and I think that what this guy is suggesting is a terrible idea. The corner of Howard and Twenty Sixth Street is, at the time, was not a corner that anybody would feel safe walking to. We had programmed a two-bedroom apartment for a teacher to go in, for teachers to go in there. And that seemed way less risky than putting a coffee shop that we really had no control over and just didn't feel like a retail type of location. But the community had spoken up and everybody kind of clapped and applauded and thought that it was a great idea. And so, we listened, and we took out the two-bedroom apartment, made space for a little thousand square foot coffee shop that ended up being one of the most powerful things that we did.   Thibault : [00:11:50] A local co-op started. They called themselves Charmington's, and they opened up this rad little cafe that just was the place to meet in the community. It was the place to have a affordable cup of coffee, to come and chat, big communal tables and just a really beautiful vibe. So inspiring was this little cafe and the co-op and ownership behind it that, jeez, I guess, five or six years ago I was in it and unannounced, President Barack Obama showed up to speak with the owner and they had been working on something together and it was just such an inspiring moment. And it kind of goes to show the power of giving up control of the perceived ownership and authorship of a project to the end users in the community and the momentum that that can build in a project, especially a really complicated project coming to life.   Eve: [00:12:54] So, and I suspect it did more than just give something to the community. It probably added something pretty spectacular to the teacher community, having that.   Thibault : [00:13:03] Yeah, yeah. Charmington's was amazing. You know, they committed to opening up at 6:00 a.m. so that the teachers on their way to school in the morning could stop and get a cup of coffee. One of the things that our management team is, we ended up setting up a property management company to manage every one of our properties because we've interviewed all these third-party property management groups and it felt like if you were about to have a baby, or had a baby, and you were going to give it to somebody else to raise. Like, nobody was going to love it as much as we would. And so, we set up this property management company. One of the things we did is, once a month at like five thirty in the morning, we would post up at the entrance and exit to the building and we'd be there with Charmington's coffees and muffins and bagels and fruit. And we would, like, serve the teachers a cup of coffee and we'd walk them to their cars with their books if they had too much to carry and just kind of send them on their way with like a big hug and a warm smile and a fresh cup of Charmington's coffee.   Eve: [00:14:03] That's a very nice story. So, I have to ask, every developer has stories about putting in an amenity like a roof deck that everyone says they want and then no one uses them, right? So, did that, has that happened at all? The teachers who were involved and the amenities that were requested, have they been used?   Thibault : [00:14:26] Yeah, so look, so the amenities include like fitness centers and lounges and free gated parking. The one amenity that's evolved is the idea of a resource center, right? The room where the teachers can make their, plan their lessons and photocopy. When we first built the building in 2008 or 2009, when it opened, teachers were still going to Kinko's to make photocopies of their lessons. The evolution was that the classroom got more digital and people stopped making photocopies and printing hundreds of pages to hand out to students. And as that trend started, the need for the resource room, for the most part, went away entirely.   Eve: [00:15:19] So amenities evolve, right? And needs evolve it's pretty fascinating. Going back to something you said earlier, which was that you allowed tenants to basically choose their own rent. How did you fill the inevitable financing gap? Because you can't possibly restore a building like that and provide affordable housing without some sort of, I suppose, funny money, right?   Thibault : [00:15:44] Yes. This is a beautiful story and really a learning moment for us. You know, we had set off to do a project that would cost about five or six hundred thousand dollars to start. And we kept striking out. And eventually, a friend of ours pointed us to this collapsing old factory building that was way past our ability to wrap our heads around at the beginning. And we worked with the teachers and they told us what their rents needed to be. And the non-profits the same thing. And then we kind of backed into how much debt we could afford. And so, the number based on the net operating income was that we could afford about six million dollars’ worth of debt. And we went out and had a architect and contractor help us figure out what it would cost to build, this being our first project. And the price tag came back at 20 million dollars, all in for the project. So, we had a 14-million-dollar gap in our capital stack, which to most would have felt insurmountable but we were so driven by this, this movement of providing amazing space for the people doing the most important work in our cities that we were never going to give up on it.   [00:16:54] And we called a good friend of ours from Enterprise Community Partners, Bart Harvey. Enterprise was the brainchild of the late Jim Rouse, A total urban visionary. And we toured him through the building. Most of the people who we toured throughout the building told us we were crazy and that the idea would never work. And we toured Bart through the building and we went out for coffee afterwards and we told him about this fourteen-million-dollar gap and he said, Guys, I know just what to do. You're in good hands now.   Thibault : [00:17:25] And I'll never forget that moment. He started to tell us about Historic Tax Credits, which is a program that for every dollar you invest in keeping a historic building, rehabbing it, the federal and state government give you a tax credit for that which turns into actual equity into the project. There is also something called the New Market Tax Credits, which we knew nothing about, which encouraged commercial investment in low income census tracts. And so, Bart starts telling us about all this and he starts making introductions around the country. And before you know it, the phone's ringing off, ringing off the hook with all these great community-driven lending institutions who want to be a part of the first Center for Educational Excellence. And with Bart's help and Enterprise's help we ended up closing that gap with all of those tax credits. We were still short about a million and a half dollars and we went to the city and state and just pled with them of the importance that this project had to the education community and to the neighborhood that it was going to be located in. And they collectively came up with that last million and a half dollars of, you know, fairly soft money. Certainly, we would owe it back at the end of the day, but the terms were super flexible. It allowed the building to, kind of, really ramp up and stabilize. So, when you kind of have the vision set for you, as hard as it's going to be to get there, there's always a way to push it forward. And it was an incredible learning opportunity for us around really not giving up when things got complicated and pushing forward. no matter how challenging the situation was.   Eve: [00:19:18] Yeah, I've done projects like that, they're extremely challenging but very fulfilling. So, have you been able to stick to the choose your own rent mantra? Like, what happens now that the building, I suppose the first building, is stabilized?   Thibault : [00:19:30] Yeah. I mean, look, for sure, you know, the first building's been a great success as a result of that and I'll say, I will point out that when we started leasing the property, the entire building was fully leased nine months before we finished construction. And by the time we finished, there was a waiting list of over 300 teachers waiting to get in. There was clearly a demand for it. I mean, I think that was driven by all these teachers spreading the word and have it go viral organically.   Thibault : [00:20:03] You know, we've got this crazy developer that let us choose our own rent and pick our own amenities. He's building this brand new building for us, it will probably never work, but if it does you've got to get in. And as a result of, kind of, the collective success of the first projects we got invited to do another one in Baltimore, and then we were asked to replicate the model in some other cities across the country. And yeah, across the board, we've held our rents low for teachers. They've certainly crept up. it's been kind of maybe 12 or 13 years since the first project was completed. But we've actually had to artificially freeze the rents, even though expenses continue to go up, to remain committed to the teachers and what seems affordable to them.   Eve: [00:20:49] And so how many units have you built to date?   Thibault : [00:20:52] I think we've probably built around 400 apartments to date.   Eve: [00:21:01] OK, a hefty number.   Thibault : [00:21:02] Yeah, it's a huge number considering where we started. You know, the original goal was to start off a little four-unit apartment buildings.   Eve: [00:21:11] Very different.   Thibault : [00:21:11] We've ended up doing about three hundred million dollars of really transformative, collaborative real estate projects over the last decade.   Eve: [00:21:20] So I have to ask, is there another group of needy tenants that you'd like to serve beyond teachers? It's really interesting because I see that the very targeted mission has actually helped market the projects for you.   Thibault : [00:21:34] Yeah, look, we get a lot of requests to figure out a way to do some sort of similar housing for nurses, right. And first responders and police officers, many of whom can't afford to live in the districts that they're working in. And we've been evaluating that over the years. I think one of the things that's been really fascinating to us is the impact of retail on communities and especially locally owned small businesses that reflect the demographics of the neighborhoods that they're in, or not. Small retail, especially in today's e-commerce world, is increasingly challenging. And finding really creative ways to provide space for these social entrepreneurs and small businesses to take real risk and to get their ideas out in the open is something that I think is really critical, a critical next step and something that we're really studying very closely.   Thibault : [00:22:44] We've done a couple projects around that. And the more we learn and the more challenging we understand it to be, the more inspired we are to figure out ways to continue to push that forward.   Eve: [00:22:57] So what other projects are you working on right now? I think I read somewhere, a market building that you tackling?   Thibault : [00:23:04] We organically happened in to the food hall world. We don't like to think of it as a food hall. About five years ago, a group of chefs in Baltimore approached us and asked us to do for them what we had done for teachers, which was to provide collaborative plug-and-play space at affordable rents where they could focus 100 percent of their energy and attention on what they do great - cooking, good food - and leave the, like, back-end side of running a restaurant to us. And we launched a project called R. House (R period House). It was incredibly successful, and we had 10 chefs open up. We had over 100 chefs apply for the 10 spots and we really looked at ourselves as a launchpad, not as a food hall but a launch pad for creating community and for helping chefs launch really inspiring ideas.   Thibault : [00:24:03] As a result of the work that we did with that, of the success of that project, we were invited to apply for RFP for the redevelopment and really the saving, of the oldest, longest continuously running public market in the country. A project called Lexington Market in Baltimore City that at one point was the place to be in Baltimore. My dad tells stories of taking the trolley down there on Saturdays with his father and literally, you didn't start a weekend before showing up at some point at Lexington Market. That area where Lexington is in, has suffered from significant disinvestment and it's really a shell of its former self and the market was at risk of closing. And so, we responded to the RFP with this idea of, on a citywide scale, doing the deepest listening that we've ever done and helping to breathe a new life back in, in essence, transforming Lexington Market into something that would work for the entire city of Baltimore. It's the largest, most complicated, riskiest project that we've ever taken on. But it's also the most soul fulfilling one that we've ever done. It literally checks every box of things that interest us as a company. And it's pushed us so far out of our comfort zone that the amount of learning that we're doing on a daily basis is so inspiring and I keep telling everybody that asks about it and I keep reminding our team that it's impossible that we're going to get this right the first time, even with the deepest listening that we're doing. A project of this scale and magnitude is going to continue to grow organically. Our job and our role is to set it up, to evolve to be what all of Baltimore expects it to be and wants it to be as they close their eyes and dream of what this project should be.   Eve: [00:26:08] It sounds pretty fabulous. I cannot wait to visit it. When I travel, the local market is always the first place I go because I think it's kind of the life and heart of every city. They’re always fascinating places, I think, so it's really great to hear that it's being revived. Have your plans for housing or housing amenities or the market changed at all with the pandemic? That's a tough question, but I'm going ask - it's a pretty tough time.   Thibault : [00:26:36] It's a beautiful question. We think about it and we talk about it every single day. The challenge with the pandemic is that a plan you make one day is no good by the time you wake up the next morning just because, like, everything is changing so rapidly. I think we're in a really fortunate place because all of the work that we've done has been around providing affordable, kind of, workforce, discounted apartments. And I think there will always be a need for that product.   Thibault : [00:27:11] We are watching it really closely. We're trying to wrap our heads around how we can be even more helpful and supportive in these rapidly changing times, especially as it relates to how people live and interact with each other. But we don't have any of the answers yet, and we're just continuing to ask the questions that help us wrap our arms around what role we can play in that.   Eve: [00:27:35] Yeah, I worry very much about places like the little coffee shop surviving this and I have a number of tenants myself and I've been, sort of, we've been limping through this disaster trying to figure it out. So, it's a big question but let's move on to something happier and that is like, you know, what's your big hairy goal. Where are you going with all of this?   Thibault : [00:28:00] Yeah, look, a lot of people ask us that question for me and for us it's somewhat simple, right? Like, our goal and the work that we do is almost 100 percent driven by the communities that we work in. We want real estate to put the power back into the hands of the communities. So, this neighborhood where we did our first project for teachers, the neighborhood's called Remington in Baltimore City. As a result of the relationship that we formed with the community associations that are there, they came up with this master plan of other things that they wanted to see happen in their community.   Thibault : [00:28:41] And we worked with them, we did a lot of listening and we've slowly but surely been chipping away at that master plan. We've helped to bring the first bank to the community. We've helped to bring the first pharmacy to the community. We've helped to bring the first dry cleaner to the community, the hair shops and hair places, the gyms. And all of it's been done in an incredibly inclusive way where we've just, kind of, continued to ask what else, what else could serve you guys and what else do you guys think that you're missing?   Thibault : [00:29:14] So in large part, our work's been driven by the communities that we're in and the cities that we're in and what they collectively think that they're missing. And what role real estate and what role our company Seawall can play in helping them realize their dreams.   Eve: [00:29:30] It sounds like you're having fun. I have to ask; do you think socially responsible real estate is necessary in today's development landscape?   Thibault : [00:29:40] I don't know that necessary is the right word. I think mandatory should be the right word, especially with how quickly the conversation has been changing and especially with how aware we all must be around the inequalities that real estate has spread throughout our communities in our country. To sit on the sideline and pass blame on previous generations for how things are and hope that somebody else is going to fix it, is no longer an option. Now, more than ever, we are fully aware of it and we all have a responsibility to ask what role we can play in helping communities, especially disenfranchised communities, use real estate and buildings to help them achieve what it is their they're after.   Eve: [00:30:35] Yes. So, are there any other current trends in real estate development that you think are most important for the future of our cities? Maybe things that you're not working on?   Thibault : [00:30:48] Look, I think transportation is such an important part around the real estate and urban planning conversation and the cities that have gotten it right, and who are getting it right, are the ones that we all need to look to. Without adequate and exceptional public transportation, so much of this work that we're all doing is just going to have its growth stunted. And I think that's one of the most important things that cities and urban planners need to be thinking through, is exceptional public transportation.   Eve: [00:31:28] Of course, that's shifting rapidly at the moment too, with the pandemic. So, we don't even know really what that will look like. But perhaps the ideal is that, you know, the next time you build a building for teachers, they won't need to have on-site parking. They'll have transit that can get them to their jobs. So, whatever that looks like. Yeah, I totally agree with you. And what community engagement tools have you seen that have worked best? It's always very difficult for most developers to contemplate how to engage a community.   Thibault : [00:32:09] Look for us, it's been really important to come into a community as neighbors and not guests. And we've lived our entire professional career that way. And I think that's really one of the differentiating factors around connecting with communities. Not just, kind of, coming in and being one and done, but spending real time there, sitting on people's front porches and stoops and listening to what it is that they want. Those are the really important lessons that we've learned along the years, over the years, as we've worked in the communities where we have.   Eve: [00:32:52] Yeah, I can see that. It's perhaps not part of the original job description for a developer, but it's certainly a really important one. So, I have one final question, and that's what's next for you?   Thibault : [00:33:08] We've been asking ourselves what's next for us for some time now, and I think that conversation has been amplified given what's going on in the world around us. One of the things that we're really aware of is the unintended consequences of successful development. You know, when we set out to do the first teacher housing project in that neighborhood of Remington, fully supported by the community, it was all high fives and hugs. And then when we worked with the community to start to chip away at their master plan to bring in all of these resources in retail and apartments and office space, all kind of things driven by the neighborhood, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars later, that little, somewhat forgotten community had become one of the premier destinations and places to be in the city. And as a result of that, the gentrification conversation became very real. And one thing that we're really aware of is that we cannot run from it. We are responsible for it. And in hindsight, as well-intentioned as we were, we would have done more from the very beginning to make sure that if the neighborhood succeeded, people that had lived there for generations, the legacy residents, would never be displaced. And there's been incredibly hard lessons learned along the way.   Thibault : [00:34:43] And so, our mandate, and one of the things that we think so much about today, is now that it is what it is. It's not too late. And how can we creatively work with the community to continue to find ways for them to attain their development goals? But in a way that is going to really limit displacement and make sure that nobody's ever kicked out of their store or their office or the home that they lived in for decades. And that's really hard work.   Eve: [00:35:18] It is, it's really hard to balance.   Thibault : [00:35:21] Yeah, it's really hard to balance and it's incredibly vulnerable. But it is something that we're committed to and as we approach new communities and new projects, we're even more aware of it going in at the early stage so that we can plan and get ahead of it if the development projects succeed.   Eve: [00:35:21] So, do you think, I mean I think about this a lot too, do you think government has a role in this?   Thibault : [00:35:44] Yeah, I'm hesitant to pass the blame on to...   Eve: [00:35:49] I'm just saying, you know, by the time a community is feeling the pain of gentrification, it's too late. It's over, right? So, I think a lot about what you could put in place decades before to encourage good development and investment in neighborhoods that need it, and safeguard people who are already there. It's hard to think about. But I think you have to think about a long time before you show up.   Thibault : [00:36:19] You do. And you interviewed a friend of mine, Brian Murray, in Philadelphia that's done things a little bit of the opposite way as us with Shift Capital. They went in and bought millions of square feet of projects with the idea of having gotten in early enough, bought it at the right price, and being able to have the community involved every step of the way as the neighborhood starts to meet its goals.   Eve: [00:36:47] And controlling real estate so they could control what happened to it, right?   Thibault : [00:36:51] Yep. You know, ours has been a little bit of the opposite. We've just been kind of, like, piecemealing things together totally unintentionally, just driven by what the neighborhoods wanted. But as a result of that, and it'd success, now other landlords are taking advantage of the rising tide and not doing it in an inclusive way that honors the people that have been there forever. So, it's a little too late, it's hard to buy anything in that community and invest in it in a way that would keep it affordable. And that's the challenge.   Eve: [00:37:28] It's a huge challenge. I'd love to know what strategy you come up with for your next community. I think it's a really important challenge because not doing anything is bad too, right? These communities need investment because they're disintegrating, and they haven't been invested in for a long time and then when you invest, you become an unhappy player in the gentrification game, which is not what we intend, right Very difficult.   Eve: [00:38:00] Ok, well, thank you very much for this conversation. And I'd love to hear what you're doing next. You're tackling some really huge projects, and I really appreciate what you're doing.   Thibault : [00:38:13] Yes, thank you so much. I've enjoyed listening to some of your past episodes, and it's certainly a little bit of a niche market but you're asking all the right questions. And I've enjoyed learning from your past guests over time so keep up the great work!   Eve: [00:38:29] OK, thanks, Thibault. You have a really great day. Bye.   Thibault : [00:38:32] You too. Thanks so much.   Eve: [00:38:45] That was Thibault Manekin, Seawall believes in reimagining the real estate development industry. They want the built environment to empower communities, unite our cities and help launch powerful ideas. Seawall's projects tackle three things. First, they want to save large, historic and blighted buildings. Second, they want to create affordable communities with rents that are customized to pay checks. And finally, they strive to be inclusive in the communities they work in.   Eve: [00:39:19] You can find out more about impact, real estate investing and access to the show notes for today's episode at my website evepicker.com. While you're there, sign up for my newsletter to find out more about how to make money in real estate while building better cities.   Eve: [00:39:36] Thank you so much for spending your time with me today. And thank you, Thibault, for sharing your thoughts with me. We'll talk again soon but for now, this is Eve Picker signing off to go make some change.

Last month, the Labor Department reported a national unemployment rate of 3.5%, the lowest it’s been in 50 years. The unemployment rate is only one metric by which the job market can be evaluated, and many point to its inherent flaws, but the reality for many employers is that filling jobs with skilled workers is harder than it used to be. One estimate has it that there are nearly 70 million available jobs nationally.There are more than 30 workforce development organizations in the Baltimore metro area. Today on Midday, a look at some of those programs, and a conversation with three experts in the employment field about what can be done to scale-up the effective ones, so that more people can be trained for jobs that are in demand, and that pay well.Linda Dworak is the Director of the Baltimore Workforce Funders Collaborative (a member of the Maryland Philanthropy Network) and the author of a report being published this week by the Abell Foundation that suggests ways some of these programs can be expanded to serve more than the 2,700 people currently involved in job training programs…We’re also joined by two people whose organizations offer workforce training.Mike Posko is the CEO of Habitat for Humanity of the Chesapeake. He directs Habitat's HabiCorps program, which trains previously incarcerated individuals in carpentry and construction management;And Tiffani Truss is the Director of Training Services at the Jane-Addams Resource Corporation (JARC), which offers job training in manufacturing.This conversation was live-streamed on WYPR's Facebook Page. Watch the video here; the segment runs from 0:00 to 39:55 on the video stream.Speaking of workforce development: there will be a special event later this week (on Thursday October 24 -- at 4:00pm) at the Peabody Heights Brewery, an initiative called GOOD BUSINESS WORKS will be launched. It’s a collaboration by Baltimore business leaders, workforce experts, and nonprofits who are recognizing businesses that are creating jobs and maintaining equitable and inclusive workplaces. For more information on the event, click here.Another program note about an event in which Tom Hall will be participating tomorrow night (October 23) at the Baltimore Museum of Industry. It’s another in the Great Talk series. The topic tomorrow night is “Baltimore: Not Just an American City: What Baltimore Means, Beyond the Headlines.”The panel will include Andre Davis, the Baltimore City Solicitor, Trif Alatzas, the Publisher and Editor in Chief of the Baltimore Sun, and Thibault Manekin, the co-founder of Seawall Development. Tom Hall will be the moderator. The conversation will begin at 7:00pm. Tickets for individual talks in the series are $15, and can be purchased online or at the door. For details on the event, click here.

Thibault Manekin is one of the co-founders of Seawall Development and original founders of Peaceplayers International. Learn how Thibault has been uniting communities through creative ideas and re-developing the built environment.

Ray Hoffman introduces the guests for this episode. “Is there such a thing as entrepreneurial love? After visiting Thibault and Lola Manekin, I’m inclined to think there is because in talking to Thibault, Co-Founder of a remarkable property development firm called Seawall, and his wife, Lola, who created a wildly popular space known as Movement Lab, I learned about an entrepreneur’s love for the city of Baltimore, an entrepreneur’s love for teachers and abandoned buildings from the 19th century, and for clients and residents of all shapes, colors, and sizes. I first met Thibault and Lola outside of R. House, which used to be a car dealership in the North Baltimore neighborhood called Remington. Upstairs is Lola’s creation, Movement Lab. Downstairs, on the ground floor, is a kind of food court, Thibault’s creation. But, really, it’s a concept kitchen for 11 up-and-coming local chefs. It’s all quite an entrepreneurial love story.”Listen in to hear more of Thibault’s and Lola’s social entrepreneurism.   Key Takeaways: [:22] Ray Hoffman introduces the guests for this episode of This Is Capitalism.[1:21] Thibault describes the strong entrepreneurial spirit of his wife, Lola. [1:50] Lola immigrated to the United States and started working in restaurants, cleaning houses, and babysitting. Following her vision of success was a slow process. [2:25] Lola’s first memory, growing up in Florianopolis, Brazil, was making bracelets with her cousins and selling them door-to-door. Lola was the middle child in her family. [3:14] Lola came to the U.S. through a program in Florida that brought in immigrant students from around the world for four-month jobs. After her four-month program was over, Lola had finished her college degree in natural therapies, so she decided to stay. She went to massage school in Florida and got licensed to do massages. [3:50] Lola tells how she met Thibault in Brazil when she was visiting her family. Then, they began a long-distance relationship between Baltimore and Florida. Thibault eventually convinced Lola to move to Baltimore. [4:36] Thibault’s first renovation project was Miller’s Court; it is Lola’s favorite. Lola describes how it came to be developed from an old building in a dangerous area into a specialized teachers’ apartment building. It set the pattern for future renovation projects. [5:56] Thibault explains how he got involved in teachers’ housing and how Miller’s Court was created from an abandoned tin-can factory with broken roofs and large rats. [8:55] After Seawall bought the property, they moved quickly to finance it, design it and build it, all in about two years. [9:05] Thibault co-founded Seawall Development with his father in 2006. Thibault says he has a vision of uniting the world and bringing people together. Real estate touches everyone. Thibault wants to fight against the division of communities by real estate and reimagine the power of the built environment to unite cities and launch powerful ideas. [10:56] Thibault’s grandfather and his brother started a real estate company in Baltimore at the end of the Second World War. For them, it was never about the transaction; it was 100% about the relationship. People started to really trust them and ask them to do things way outside their comfort zone. [11:32] Thibault’s grandfather and his brother were two of seven children growing up in a two-bedroom apartment above the grocery store their father ran on the first floor. They believed that if they treated people fairly, at the end of the day it would work out. [11:55] Thibault’s father graduated from college with the intention of going into public education. He first took an internship with his dad in the real estate firm and saw that the business was not about earning money at all costs, but about creating deep relationships and helping companies grow. [12:36] Thibault tells how his father had just retired in 2000 when he was invited to be COO of the Baltimore City School System. After his time in real estate, he realized it was time to pursue his lifelong dream. He committed to working long hours, seven days a week to help kids and education. [14:00] He brought together a competent team of people from different sectors with different experiences that touched the school system in some fashion. They went to work and turned the budget from red to being in the black. His position was a two-year interim position so he hired his own replacement. [15:06] Inspired by his father’s work with teachers, Thibault went into business with him to create centrally-located, affordable housing set aside for teachers new to the area who didn’t know the neighborhoods. They also wanted to find a centralized space for education nonprofits. [16:44] The goal was a 5,000 square-foot building. They renovated a 100,000 square-foot building that was more than they expected. It provided a great space for both teachers and nonprofits. [17:03] Teachers were able to design their own apartments and amenities, and choose their own rent. Based on the rent the teachers said they could afford, Thibault and his father reverse-engineered the project to come up with a budget. The budget turned out to be $6 million, which was $14 million short of costs! [17:48] They figured out how to get the $14 million to be able to provide affordable housing for teachers and nonprofits. [18:19] They created a movement by building from the inside-out - from the teachers and nonprofits to community associations, to a team of guardian angels made of attorneys, accountants, banks, and lenders. They found creative financing solutions that fit the needs with historic building tax credits and city, state, and Federal assistance. [19:55] People were helping this project because it wasn’t a “real estate deal.” Thibault and his father led with their purpose. It wasn’t their idea; it was the idea of the teachers and nonprofits. It was such an easy story to tell. Lenders wanted to get involved. [20:26] Not only did their lenders and team want to bring the first project to life, but they also wanted to be part of so many more of these projects and replicate the model across the country. [20:56] Thibault shares some background to his story. Thibault had graduated college and was in touch with a friend of his in Northern Ireland, Sean Tuohey, who was working in a program to bring Protestant and Catholic children together through basketball. Sean was invited to bring the program to post-apartheid South Africa. [21:24] Sean came home to D.C., and he and his brother helped start a nonprofit, at the time called Playing for Peace, and later called PeacePlayers International. Sean went to Africa and Thibault reached out to him by email. Sean replied he was on his way back to D.C., and they had a three-hour lunch discussing the success of the program. [22:20] Thibault helped raise $3,000 from friends and family and went with Sean to South Africa to help. Thibault worked behind the scenes with Sean to help the idea come to life. Nelson Mandela and his organization were their largest supporters and the floodgates were opened. [23:14] PeacePlayers International replicated the model in the Middle East with Israeli and Palestinian children and in Cyprus with Greek Cypriot children and Turkish Cypriot children. Thibault and Sean were living out of their suitcases all this time. [23:34] At 21 years old, Thibault didn’t have any confidence in himself as a leader. He worked with PeacePlayers for six years and learned a lot about himself, about life, about inspiring people, and leading. This translated into Thibault’s professional life, marriage, and family. [24:20] Thibault and his father started their development business in 2000. They knew there would be risks. They closed financing on their first project, Miller’s Court, three months before Lehman Brothers collapsed. Thibault is confident those three months were the key to succeeding instead of failing to launch their first project. [25:08] Seawall wasn’t interested in leasing space to national credit tenants. They wanted to support small nonprofits and teachers. Thibault compares Seawall’s passion for this first project to the passion of a teenager in love for the first time. They were committed to this idea to help the teachers, and so, the children, of the city. [26:10] Thibault talks about the Union Mill project. Everything Seawall does is driven by the community. After Miller’s Court, they had a waiting list of over 300 teachers and 12 nonprofits. They took a larger team of professionals and helpers and started looking for another building. They were armed with all their experience from the first project. [27:09] They knew instantaneously that the Union Mill building was right, that they could do it, and that it would be the next project. [27:16] Thoughtful and inclusive real estate should be able to bring people together. Thibault talks about the R. House project, which is more than a food hall; it’s a launchpad for Baltimore’s most creative chefs. It was renovated with purpose first. [27:45] The Lexington Market downtown is Seawall’s current project. Thibault says it will be the most significant project they will ever do. The challenge is proving a single building that can really unite an incredibly divided city. It’s about massive job creation. It’s about making the city fall in love with a historic, iconic place that has fallen off the radar. [29:07] As Seawall has really dug in and listened to the communities that surround it, they believe Lexington Market needs to become a place where everybody in Baltimore feels welcomed into in a beautifully diverse way. Thibault describes the project details. It will be the main public market in Baltimore with startups and new diverse vendors. [30:20] Thibault explains the process of deep listening they are doing for Lexington Market. They hold a series of town hall meetings city-wide where they discuss important topics such as crime, safety, the environment, recruiting of vendors, diversity of vendors, support to be given to vendors through implementation, vendor selection, and more. [31:20] Seawall’s vision is to be invisible in the Lexington Market project. It should come together organically, led by the people of Baltimore for the market of Baltimore, in Baltimore’s longest-running, most iconic institution. [31:48] Thibault considers working on Lexington Market to be one of the greatest honors and the most significant project in Baltimore to be brought to the Seawall team to bring to life. Thibault predicts that somewhere else, around the world, they will work on a more significant project in the future. [32:24] If Seawall stays true to their purpose, there is an opportunity to help other developers understand that when you lead with your purpose and when you are a part of creating movements, and when you build everything from the inside out, that so much more is possible. [32:42] Movement Lab is Lola’s business. Thibault discusses the space, the amazing, eclectic people, and the inspiring exercises they do. It is a unique space. [33:51] Lola did a TEDx talk, Taking Movement Beyond. She tells about redefining the conversation around fitness. Instead of thinking about a beach body or a weight loss goal, think about fitness being the consequence of moving. Lola describes the various activities available at Movement Lab. [34:51] Lola is from an island in Brazil and movement has always been important in her life - running, dancing, wakeboarding, and being in nature all the time. When Lola moved to Baltimore, walking a treadmill in a gym was not right for her. [35:16] Then Lola learned of the NIA movement and signed up for training right away. She felt completely at home in her body from the first exercise. In Baltimore, there were no NIA classes being taught, so she started promoting it to gyms, yoga studios, church basements, and offering free demo classes. NIA is dance, martial arts, and yoga, to music. [36:18] Fitness is the consequence of all the movement in NIA. Everybody can do it. All the classes in Movement Lab are classes Lola has taken and enjoyed. People of all ages and sizes do it. There’s a sense of accomplishment when people realize that they can hang upside down in an Antigravity® Hammock and flip out of the hammock. [37:17] Thibault tells when he realized there was a business to build out of NIA and movement. Lola taught classes to one, two, a few, or even nobody as if there were 100 people in the room. When she started getting 100 women in a class, Thibault knew she needed a space of her own. [39:00] They started to find the right space for the studio. Lola was focused on reinventing what movement meant, with alternative forms of movement from around the world. Thibault encouraged her to start with yoga that was familiar and she asked why Thibault didn’t start building Walmarts and strip centers. She embraced her differences. [40:00] Seawall doesn’t use the word development. They are social entrepreneurs that happen to use the built environment to empower communities, unite cities and help to launch really important ideas. They will hire people from any field other than development. They are reimagining the industry. They don’t want real estate baggage. [41:41] Thibault Manekin of Seawall; Lola Manekin of Movement Lab, and the world; This is social capitalism.   Mentioned in This Episode: Stephens.com Seawall Development Movement Lab House City of Baltimore Florianopolis, Brazil Miller’s Court Baltimore City Public Schools Baltimore Urban Debate League Playworks SunTrust USBank Enterprise PeacePlayers International Nelson Mandela Foundation The Union Mill Lexington Market Taking Movement Beyond, Lola Maniken, TEDx NIA Walmart Yoga Martial arts This Is Capitalism

A couple of years ago, the mayor of Baltimore announced plans to tear the market down and build, on the parking lot to its south, a big glassy structure to replace it. That plan provoked groans -- not only at the design, but at its estimated $60 million price tag. Earlier this month, officials working on Lexington Market’s renovation came up with a new plan, not as expensive and one, they say, that can be put in place faster. The city chose Seawall Development, the firm behind the R. House food hall and other projects in Remington, to construct a new market for the vendors on the south lot, as before, but not the big glass box. The new plan calls for opening the Lexington Street arcade, built in the 1980s, into a grand pedestrian mall between Paca and Eutaw Streets. The plan would retain the market’s east building, where most of the vendors are now, and offer the west building, across Paca Street, for a separate redevelopment project. In this episode, Dan goes to Lexington Market to speak with two key players: Robert Thomas, executive director of the city's public markets, and Kirby Fowler, president of the Downtown Partnership of Baltimore.Further reading: Klaus Philipsen's Community Architect Daily essay on Lexington Market and Dan Rodricks' August 21 column, ----Shop at Lexington Market, or the rat wins.----