Watermark's Church Leadership Podcast

We keep asking why the next generation is leaving the Church, but Grant Skeldon thinks we're asking the wrong question. Instead, we should be asking, how are we discipling the next generation? In this episode of the Church Leadership Podcast, recorded live at the 2025 Church Leaders Conference, Grant calls us to stop handwringing over what is wrong and to start identifying what is working. He explores key discipleship moments for raising up the next generation leaders and what you can do to help develop more young leaders in the church. Link to the printable Young Leader CLC Handout.Here is the link to apply to our Young Leader Cohort.

Seventeen centuries ago, a courageous pastor named Athanasius, and the historic Council of Nicaea defended an important truth of our faith—that Jesus is both fully God and fully man. In this unique episode, John McGee sits down with Rob Barry, Garrett Wikle, and Grant Wilkie to unpack why the Council of Nicaea (325 AD) still matters for your faith, your leadership, and the life of the Church. Recommended Books on Church History: • Church History in Plain Language – Bruce Shelley • In the Year of Our Lord: Reflections on Twenty Centuries of Church History – Sinclair Ferguson • The Story of Christianity, Volume 1 – Justo González • The Story of Christianity, Volume 2 – Justo González • Christianity: The Biography – Ian J. Shaw • A Pocket History of the Church – D. Jeffrey Bingham • 50 People Every Christian Should Know – Warren W. WiersbeHelpful Videos and Messages: • Irish Heresies Video (YouTube) – A fun and memorable explanation of early church heresies. • Contending for Our All by John Piper (Desiring God)  

Have you ever felt like you needed just one more thing to truly make an impact? In this solo episode, John McGee shares a refreshing reminder from his years in ministry: you already have everything you need to glorify God—and to lead with joy. Whether you're dealing with tight budgets, limited staff, or facility space, this episode is for you. 

Money can be a sensitive topic for ministry leaders—but it doesn't have to be. In this episode, John McGee, Dave Bruskas, and John Cox share personal stories and practical wisdom on stewarding personal finances with integrity, cultivating contentment, and planning for the future. Whether you're leading a church or just starting in ministry, this honest, grace-filled conversation will challenge and equip you to lead well—both in your budget and your heart. 

In this episode, John McGee sits down with Emma Dotter (Join the Journey Director) to unpack why Gen Z works differently, how we (often unknowingly) contributed to that shift, and what you can do to build trust, call them up, and help them thrive. Whether you're leading a team, mentoring young leaders, or just trying to understand the next generation in your church, this conversation will give you clarity, encouragement, and practical steps forward.

Leaders want to make the right decisions, but past mistakes can lead to overcorrection—fixing one problem while creating another. In this episode, John McGee unpacks how this happens in our hiring, theology, and leadership transitions, and how to avoid reactionary decisions. Learn to make thoughtful adjustments that lead to lasting impact. 

Church growth is exciting—but it also brings leadership challenges. Maybe you're feeling the weight of too many decisions, struggling to keep up with relationships, or realizing that what worked in the past isn't working anymore. You're not alone—every growing church faces these moments. The real question is: How will you lead through it? In the latest episode of Church Leadership Podcast, John McGee, Dave Bruskas, and John Cox share insights on: ✅ Why churches stall—and how to break through ✅ How to delegate without losing control ✅ The leadership shifts every growing church must make 

Ever feel like you don't belong in the role you've been given? You're not alone. In this episode, John McGee and Dave Bruskas dive into the realities of imposter syndrome—how it shows up in leadership, why it happens, and how to push through it. With personal stories, biblical wisdom, and practical strategies, they remind us that insecurity is a universal challenge, but it doesn't have to hold us back. Tune in and be encouraged: what's hard today will become easy tomorrow if you lean in. 

In this episode of the Church Leadership Podcast, John McGee unpacks the roles of APEST found in Ephesians 4:11-13 —Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Shepherds, and Teachers —and how these leadership giftings shape the church. He explores their strengths and challenges, explaining why a balanced team is essential for both growth and sustainability. Whether you're planting churches or leading teams, this episode will help you recognize, empower, and collaborate with different gifts for maximum impact. 

In today's fast-paced culture, it's easy to feel the pull toward the next big opportunity. As a follow-up to December's episode, Knowing When to Leave, this episode dives into the topic of knowing when to stay and the value of long-term leadership in ministry. If you're wrestling with the decision to stay or go, this episode offers practical wisdom and encouragement to embrace the long game in ministry—and experience the joy it brings.

Urgency can make or break a leader. In this episode of the Church Leadership Podcast, John McGee unpacks the topic of urgency and why it is the secret weapon of great leaders by driving motivation and action. Tune in for encouragement and practical steps to help you lead with urgency, embrace meaningful goals, and move your organization away from complacency. 

In the final episode of the year, host John McGee expresses gratitude to listeners for their selfless service to Christ and others. He acknowledges their impactful work and extends heartfelt thanks for their dedication, both seen and unseen. We will see you all in 2025!

Struggling to discern if it's time to step away from your current role? In the next episode of the Church Leadership Podcast, John McGee and Dave Bruskas (Director of Re:generation at Watermark) dive into the challenges of navigating career transitions in ministry. From recognizing the impact on your family and addressing unresolved conflicts to aligning your desires with God's will, they offer practical wisdom and spiritual guidance for making these tough decisions. Don't miss this insightful conversation on how to leave well—or stay with purpose. Recommended Resources:Eugene Peterson, "Under the Unpredictable Plant"Eugene Peterson, "Working the Angles"Bruce Waltke, "Finding the Will of God"Justin Lester, "Necessary Endings"Gary Thomas, "When to Walk Away"Episode 115 - How to Leave a Job Well

Join the Church Leadership Podcast as we celebrate Watermark Community Church's 25th anniversary by exploring the inspiring history of Re|engage. Since its inception in 2006, our marriage enrichment ministry has transformed the lives of over 137,000 couples across 650 churches. Hear powerful personal stories of change and discover how this gospel-centered discipleship program strengthens marriages, fosters community and accountability, and aims to impact one million marriages. www.reengage.org

In this episode of the Church Leadership Podcast, John McGee and Caitlin Van Wagoner dive into Watermark's Master Calendar system. They chat about how it keeps the church mission-focused and resources in sync, tackling the ups and downs of growing organizations. Tune in to hear about the power of solid planning, the importance of leadership buy-in, and how teamwork makes ministry more impactful.Designation Service MenuMaster Calendar Process Explained

In this session from Church Leaders Conference, John and Pam McGee share the importance of prioritizing your marriage as your first ministry. He emphasizes evaluating one's ministry, the significance of character and competency in leadership, and the necessity of being content and intentional in your marriage. CLC Giveaway Blocks

In this episode, we dive into “Watermarkisms;” the phrases and sayings that help shape the culture at Watermark Community Church. John McGee and Ashley Lawrence unpack the importance of the words we choose, how they influence your team, and create a culture of ownership.Watermark's Owners ManualPopular Phrases We Say Around Watermark:1. Ride Along2. Think Like an Owner3. Last 2%/ 24-Hour Rule/ Widen the Circle4. Preach, Pray, or Die5. Faithfulness of the Leader, Faithfulness of the Team6. Farkle/ That's a Way to Lose!/ High-Risk High-Reward7. Find the One8. How's Your Ministry?9. Stay in the Ring With Me10. All Hands on Deck11. The Most Important 100 are the Next 100Bonus: Knock Your Socks Off

In this week's episode of the Church Leadership Podcast, Dave Bruskas (Director of Re:generation) shares his personal journey of working in ministry and the hardships he has faced along the way. Listen to be reminded of God's faithfulness and sustaining presence, and be encouraged of the ways He uses our challenges to shape our faith and leadership. 

On this week's episode of the Church Leaders Podcast, explore the reasons behind faith deconstruction and gain insight on supporting those going through it. Key themes include church hurt, justification for sin, politics, intellectual doubts, cultural pressures, and personal experiences, with in-depth discussion on understanding truth, authority, and offering empathy. The discussion highlights the importance of being pastoral, patient, and loving while pointing individuals back to scripture during this process. 

Creating a strong culture is crucial for any organization, including churches. In this week's episode of the Church Leadership Podcast, John McGee and Dave Bruskas explore how leaders must clearly define and communicate the desired culture, recognize and correct behaviors that align or conflict with it, and consistently reinforce it over time. 

In this episode of the Church Leadership Podcast, John McGee is joined by Luke Friesen (Senior Director of Operations) and John Cox (Executive Pastor) to discuss strategies for navigating economic slowdowns and decreased giving. Learn how strong communication, building reserves, and finding creative solutions will help you lead confidently through financial uncertainties.

People who see the world in unique ways and have original problem-solving approaches are a huge asset to any team. But if you want to help your creatives reach their full potential, you need to understand how to best engage with them. John McGee, Caitlin Van Wagoner (Senior Communications Director), and David Penuel (Creative Director) discuss maximizing creative gifting in the church on this week's episode of the Church Leadership Podcast.  Downloads:CLC Breakout Slides - The Creative Process

Creativity matters because we are called to reflect our Creator God. Many of us, however, think of creativity as being accessible only to the talented few who fit a certain stereotype. This week on the Church Leadership Podcast, we gathered some of our staff's best creative minds to demystify the creative process and explore how we can harness it for God's glory.  Downloads:Creativity is a Remix by Kirby Ferguson (Ted Talk)A Technique for Producing Ideas by William Young

When news of a pastor's moral failure breaks, it's appropriate to grieve for the pain the sin has caused and the damage God's reputation has suffered. On this week's episode of the Church Leadership Podcast, John McGee and Dave Bruskas wrestle with their own complicated feelings about recent scandals and explore how we can lead ourselves well—avoiding self-righteousness and reorienting ourselves to truth.  

None of us are capable of making ministry fruitful, but we're still charged with putting in the work and waiting in faith for God to bring the growth. In a special message at the Church Leaders Conference this Spring, John Elmore encouraged us to work alongside God's Spirit and His other faithful workers in this great “co-mission.” 

Church leaders are the first to extol the importance of biblical fellowship, but we aren't always the best at practicing it. This special message from Harris Creek Baptist Church pastor Jonathan “J.P.” Pokluda, first given at CLC 2024, calls leaders to drop any pretenses and embrace the God-given gift of Christian accountability. This isn't a race you can run well alone. 

If you weren't able to join us at the Church Leaders Conference this year, check out pastor Timothy Ateek's opening mainstage message on prayer as a spiritual checkpoint. Without attentive care, it's easy to let your spiritual priority drift from enjoying God's presence through prayer. We kicked off our time together by taking a hard look at ourselves and discussing how we can get back on-course if we've drifted. 

We wrapped up the “Things I Didn't Learn in Seminary” podcast series this week with an episode on how to lead and serve in your first and most important ministry: your family. Shepherding your family well--listed in 1 Timothy as a leadership qualification--can be challenging. Whether you have a spouse and kids or hope to someday, it's worth preparing to face these occupational hazards with eyes wide open.   

Ever heard the joke, “I love ministry—it's people I can't stand”? It's funny because interacting with people can be difficult, but people are our ministry, and the way we interact with them matters immensely. In this week's episode of the Church Leadership Podcast, John McGee and Dave Bruskas talk about the nuances of interpersonal exchanges, drawing from years of real-life ministry experience.

"The Rule of Life" Reference

A lot of us go into ministry unconsciously believing that we just need to know how to teach and preach well, when in fact, leadership involves a huge amount of team management and goal-setting. In this week's Church Leadership Podcast, John McGee and Watermark Director of re:generation Dave Bruskas return with more things they didn't learn in seminary that have been invaluable in their pastoring careers.

Seminary is invaluable for a pastor, but some aspects of ministry can only be learned through hands-on experience. This week's episode of the Church Leadership Podcast kicks off a new 6-part series covering things we've learned on the job: how to handle a confession, what to say at a hospital visit, and much more. 

Many of us have set ambitious goals for 2024. While it's great to learn new skills and accomplish new things, the best way to have an impact is simply to be faithful. In this week's episode of the Church Leadership Podcast, John McGee reminds us that Jesus honors faithful servants—not accomplished servants or goal-crushing servants. 

At some point, most of us will end up working under someone we don't see eye-to-eye with. In this week's Church Leadership Podcast, Watermark Resources Project Coordinator Ashley Lawrence breaks down how examining your motivation and mindset can empower you to take the right action steps. Actionable Steps:1. Be a champion, not a criticizer  - Are you gossiping and complaining or praying for your leadership and bringing solutions?  - Commit to put effort behind the decision that was made, even if it wasn't your first choice. 2. Receive and give feedback  - We need to be able to receive feedback before we can give it.  - It's important for leaders to have people in their corner who can tell them the hard truth. Be one of those people.  - When you have feedback, always ask "Can I ask you a question" or "Are you open to feedback?"  - It's not loving to withhold feedback from people you care about, if you love your leadership, help refine them.3. Assume the best about your leadership team  - If you consistently negatively interpret their actions or motives, that's only going to make you more bitter4. Find people that are thriving  - Who around you is highly motivated, loves what they do, and wants to encourage others?   - Ask these people questions and learn from them!  - If you don't have anyone like this around you, be the catalyst! It's contagious.5. Pray constantly  - If you feel frustrated by your leadership team, pray for them - it's much harder to be bitter towards someone when you pray for them.

The joy of the Lord is our strength, and lighthearted fun strengthens a team. In this week's episode of the Church Leadership Podcast, Braun Brown and Sean Hill share the importance of not taking yourself too seriously and how church leaders can harness the power of fun to bring people together for effective Gospel work. The last of Watermark's four staff values, having fun is one of our defining traits—and one we think any church can adopt. Watermark's Staff Values

Just like a finger won't survive long if it's severed from the hand, our spiritual health depends on connection to the rest of Christ's body. We're meant to function together, and without unity as one of our core values, our mission will fall apart. Caitlin Van Wagoner and David Penuel join this week's Church Leadership Podcast to talk about how church staff can not only avoid gossip and division, but also pursue each other relationally and prioritize collaboration.  Watermark Staff Values - Download"Resolving Staff Conflict" - David and Caitlin's Talk from CLCConflict Roadmap - Download

Churches that do not encourage their staff to excel are missing an opportunity to honor God and inspire others. On the other hand, churches that pursue excellence for the wrong reasons have made an idol out of something that should be an offering. On this week's Church Leadership Podcast, Watermark teaching pastor John Elmore joins John McGee to talk about faithfully executing our work to the best of our abilities without losing sight of our mission. Watermark Staff Values - Download

Too often, we assume that we don't need to tell church staff to rely on God. But Christians routinely affirm spiritual dependency as a concept without living it out practically, valuing strategy over sensitivity to the Spirit. This week's podcast covers why dependence on God is at the top of Watermark's core values for its staff and what this looks like practically. Watermark's Staff Values - Download

Even in full-time ministry, when imperfect human beings work closely together, conflict is bound to arise. As leaders, we have the opportunity to reflect Christ in a uniquely tangible and powerful way through how we resolve conflict. In this talk, first given at CLC 2023, two of our veteran staff members walk through a conflict they personally experienced and how they were able to restore peace biblically.Conflict Roadmap PDFVideo Download

As fallible humans, anyone who serves in ministry for a significant length of time will have some regrets—opportunities they should have taken, relationships they should have invested more in, and words they should have said (or not said). In this week's Church Leadership Podcast, Watermark Director of re:generation Dave Bruskas reflects on the things he would do differently if he could go back, and how other church leaders can minimize their own regrets.

The seeds you plant when your church is still young can grow into a life-giving, God-honoring community in the years to come. On this week's episode, John McGee recalls the ideas that shaped the early days of Watermark Community Church, the fruit that's come from them, and how you can identify the values that are most important to focus on in your church body. 

This week, John McGee broaches a topic that many church leaders grapple with but hesitate to speak about: feelings of discouragement and burnout in ministry. The weight of guiding a congregation, meeting expectations, and constantly pouring yourself out can sometimes be profoundly exhausting. If you've ever found yourself on the brink of giving up, you might need to be reminded of the truth we shared with thousands of church leaders at CLC 2023: "Don't quit - we're not home yet."  

Your team can be a place of gratitude, where people feel seen and celebrated--or a place of discouragement and drudgery. It largely comes down to what you cultivate. On this week's Church Leadership Podcast, veteran Watermark leaders Braun Brown and Joey Tisdale discuss how to craft a vision for your staff's culture and then nurture it into being.

God has clearly revealed his moral will to us in the Bible. But what about the “should I?” questions that leaders encounter every single day? How do we make decisions that aren't morally black or white, but gray? Watermark Lead Pastor Blake Holmes spoke at CLC this year about a framework for godly decision-making. (Want more content like this? Don't miss CLC 2024--early registration is open now.) Show Notes:Should I? PDF DownloadShould I? Sermon Series - Part 1Should I? Sermon Series - Part 2

Let's be real: at times, ministry can leave us feeling stressed-out, overwhelmed, and out of control. Watermark teaching pastor Timothy Ateek has learned that when it's a struggle to shepherd others, it's more important than ever to find our peace and identity in God's identity as Shepherd.

On this episode of the Church Leader's Podcast, John McGee and Watermark's Senior Director of Community and Pastoral Care, David Dzina, sit down to discuss what it looks like to step into leadership on an underperforming team.

Could you be wasting your most valuable resource? On this week's episode of the Church Leadership Podcast, special guest Jonathan “JP” Pokluda of Harris Creek Baptist Church shares how to maximize your ministry's potential by building a healthy team. 

In our last Church Leadership Podcast, Watermark teaching pastors Timothy Ateek and John Elmore walked us through the ways they prepare messages. This week, we're behind the curtain again to see how they continue to improve their actual sermon delivery. Understanding your audience, getting useful feedback, finding your own unique style—it's all here. 

In this episode of the Church Leader's Podcast, John McGee sits down with Watermark's teaching pastors Timothy "TA" Ateek and John Elmore to discuss their methods of planning when it comes to sermon preparation.

Before he led at Watermark's Young Adult Ministry or preached at Harris Creek in Waco, Jonathan “JP” Pokluda was money-driven and success-obsessed. In this week's Church Leadership Podcast, JP shares how he found himself in vocational ministry with no ladder to climb and had to rethink his whole approach to life.