Podcasts about so trevor

A week ago, Dr Jen Frahm, a Melbourne-based global expert in change and organisational transformation, posted the following tweet: @jenfrahm - Twitterz - thoughts on who has done a good job of being associated w multiple brands? eg portfolio of biz? I have Dr Jen Frahm, Agile Change Leadership Institute, Busting Silos & about to add another - curious who manages the brand side well? Does visual coherence matter? Jen's tweet resonated with Trevor Young, the host and publisher of Reputation Revolution. As someone who writes about, and works closely with, professionals who have built businesses off the back of their personal brand, Trevor has seen first-hand the dilemmas that come with commercialising one's reputation, for example: Personal brand vs business brand - which should receive more priority?Should I be developing a series of products as sub-brands, or not?And what about building bona fide sideline businesses instead of products - will this detract from my personal brand? So many questions, and no right or wrong answer, of course. A lot depends on your personal circumstances and your goals. So Trevor thought it would be a good idea to get Jen on the podcast - along with her friend and colleague, branding specialist, Kate Ware, from BuzzPop Brands. The idea was: "Let's just have a chat about this and share our thoughts and ideas on the podcast." So that's what this episode is about: an informal 'roundtable conversation' between Trev, Jen and Kate, in which they dissect the pros and cons of collaborative sideline businesses, sub-branded ventures and product ecosystems, and what's the most effective way to build out the business behind one's personal brand. CONNECT WITH JEN: TwitterLinkedInWebsite CONNECT WITH KATE: TwitterLinkedInWebsite

While we were in Boston, we sat down and recorded an episode going over ALL of the games we played at PAX. Unfortunately, that episode file crashed and was lost. So Trevor, Frank, Logan, and Cameron sat down to re-record the highlights. 0:00 Introductions 2:26 Day One Highlights (Animal Crossing, Cyber Shadow, She Dreams Elsewhere, Wasteland 3, Dunk Lords, Skate Story, Hindsight 20/20, The Red Lantern, Doom Eternal, Kana Quest, Black Skylands, Liberated) 24:19 That Nerdy Site's Best of PAX East (Fall Guys) 35:37 Day Two Highlights (The Artful Escape, Stronghold: Warlords, Season, Forest Cathedral, Those Who Remain, Deliver Us the Moon, Until You Fall, Wintermoor Tactics Club) 1:02:36 Day Three Highlights (Mayhem in Single Valley, Ghostrunner, PHOGS, Skyhill Black Mist, Welcome to Elk, Shovel Knight Dig, Shovel Knight Pocket Dungeon) 1:18:51 Day Four Highlights (Greak: Memories of Azur, Floppy Knights, Maneater, Klang 2, Raji: An Ancient Epic, Disaster Report 4, Spiritfarer, Monstrata Fracture) 1:45:52 Closing Thoughts Support on Patreon: patreon.com/thatnerdysite Follow the Nerds: Trevor: @TrevorJStarkey Cameron: @revcabbott Logan: @LeftyLoggy Frank: @irrelevantjokes That Nerdy Site: @thatnerdysite

You literally need the struggle and resistance to change your body. And the same rules apply to changing our brain. And so it's a call to action! Look, getting better isn't pretty and it's not only okay for it to be a bit ugly, it's unnecessary! The same tactics that we use to change our body with fitness and working out... those are the same rules that apply to changing our brain. So many times when we try to learn something, we try it twice, it doesn't work and then we just stop?! That would be the equivalent of doing like one set of curls. And then wake up in the morning like, oh, not bigger. I guess I can't grow. Nobody would do that!! People in the fitness world notice that, like literally, anyone can make any muscle stronger if they work it out! And… the same rules apply to skills. In today’s BPT Podcast I talked with Trevor Ragan from the “Learner Lab” and Train Ugly. Trever interviewed Michael merzenich. He's known as the father of neuro plasticity, which is like, the building blocks for all skill and development. Neuroplasticity shows how when we learn something, we're actually building new connections in our brain. And this guy has been studying the brain since the late 60s, early 70s. And during the conversation, one of the most profound things he said, like, with 100% certainty, absolutely anyone can get better at virtually anything! We know it can bring up a little fear and anxiety to create change… We address that too! Researchers have a technique they call Reappraising fear. Look into the research of fear, anxiety, stress, one of the worst possible things to do with those emotions is to try to suppress them. Yet 91% of people think that that's the best thing to do with them. We assume that something's wrong, that we're not ready, that we're not prepared that this isn't the right thing to do. But the truth is like, that's literally just a part of our brain. It's called our amygdala. And that's its response to anything that takes us out of our comfort zone. And so this tactic of reappraising fear is to help people understand feeling uncomfortable, doesn't mean you're doing something wrong. And it doesn't mean you can't do this. It means you're human. Like literally the human response to anything that stretches us out of our comfort zone is discomfort. And so like that seems simple, but it's like a superpower skill and tool that we can use to help us become better learners. Help us make bigger changes! The essence of a growth mindset is what I believe - I can grow. That's an essential fuel source to making a change the opposite of a fixed mindset that like, I can't learn that I can't do that. If I'm operating from those limiting beliefs, I'm probably not going to take a sustained action that goes for learning... that goes for working out. Now, the interesting thing, and the topic that we're digging into now is how actually the beliefs of the person in charge the beliefs of the leader can also become like self fulfilling, just like the beliefs of the individual. So Trevor interviewed Robert Rosenthal, he's in his 90s he's still a professor in California and he researches what they call the Pygmalion effect. And the Pygmalion effect basically shows how the Applications of the person in charge could become self-fulfilling prophecies. What the hell does that mean??? Check out today’s podcast with Trevor Ragan and find out! --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/phil-t9/message

James:  Hey audience, this is James Kandasamy from Achieve Wealth Podcast. Today, we have Coach, Trevor McGregor from Vancouver, British Columbia. But you know, he's been seen all over in the US, in a lot of conferences giving keynote speeches. So Trevor is a real estate coach, a consultant, a keynote speaker and many other things. Trevor, why not you tell the audience what do you do and what are the things that I missed out?   Trevor: Oh, well, thank you very much, James. Great to be on your show. I love your show. And yeah, you know, predominantly, my background is in business. I worked in the Fortune, you know, Fortune 500 company; it wasn't a Fortune 500 company itself, but I worked in corporate. It felt like a Fortune 500 company because I did a little bit of everything as the director of operations. I was involved in everything from marketing to finance, HR, site selection; you name it, I did it. And at the same time, as I was working in corporate, I also became a real estate investor. So I started investing in condos, townhouses, duplexes, fourplexes, single family homes. And at the same time, I also really got into personal growth. I was studying the likes of Tony Robbins and Jim Rohn, a little bit of Napoleon Hill. And so, I had this trifecta going of corporate, of real estate, and a personal growth that eventually morphed into me doing a little bit of coaching in corporate and in real estate and in personal growth. I went on to start working with Tony Robbins. For those of you that know Tony Robbins, he's a business strategist and he loved that I had a background in business, a background in real estate and that I was big into personal growth. And so at some point in my career, I decided to just leave the corporate world and just end up doing coaching, consulting, keynote speaking and full-time real estate investing. And that's really what I do today. James: Very interesting. So I believe that success in anything that we do is 80% psychology mindset and personal growth, internally, right? So tell us about the steps that any real estate investor needs to achieve his dream or his or her dream to become a really successful real estate investor. I mean, you have coached a lot of people, so why not we go through the list of what are the most important things that any real estate investors should look at?   Trevor: Absolutely. I'll be happy to. And I guess it all starts with understanding that there are two things. So I'll share two things before we get to the list, James, because I'm telling you, I've coached real estate investors all over this beautiful blue planet. You know, the majority of them have been in the United States, some in Canada, some in Europe, some in Australia, New Zealand, even as far away as Asia. And after doing over 20,000 coaching calls, that's an actual statistic, I found that it really boils down to just two things. You know, the first thing is to really have what I call a high-performance mindset. You've got to get what's right between the ears before you can even go out there and do the second thing, which is modeling; modeling best practices. You know, learning from people like you, learning from reading great books, attending conferences. Because if you can show up with a powerful mindset and you can model best practices, you can really take your real estate portfolio through the roof. Does that make sense?   James: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So let's go to more things in how the journey can be started, right?   Trevor: Yeah. Well, absolutely. And I call it the seven simple steps to extraordinary real estate success. Because again, I've identified that if you do these seven things, you're going to be wildly successful in real estate. And if you miss one of these seven things, it can take you a long time to get to your ultimate outcome. So the very first thing that I always talk about, and it's always number one with people, whether you are new to real estate investing, maybe you are an expert at it, is that there's always something going on where we need to confirm with your mindset. Because we all have limiting beliefs, we all have doubts, we all have fears, we all have anxiety. And oftentimes we'll say things like, you know, it's tough to find great deals, right? Or maybe you've heard all the good deals are gone, or that it's hard to raise money nowadays because there's so much competition Or what if the market crashes?  And so those are all questions that if you don't get your head around those things, they can literally paralyze someone and stop them in their tracks. So what I come in is I come in as a coach and I take a look at things like, well, what are your beliefs? What are your values? What are your rules? How were you answering those questions? Because I'm telling you that there's a new way of thinking and behaving that you've got to really latch onto. Because if you don't, those limiting beliefs are going to hold you back. Does that make sense?   James: Yeah, that makes sense. But where do you think people get the limiting belief? I mean, it seems to be everybody having it, right? And how can they cure that limiting belief?   Trevor: Well, limiting beliefs come from what we perceive as being true, right? So if someone says, "Oh, it's hard to raise capital."  You've got to ask, "Is that really true?"  And the answer for some is, "Yeah, it is hard to raise capital."  And from others you go, "Well, other people have seemed to raise capital so I might just investigate how they're doing it."  Let's take James Kandasamy if we take a look at how much money you've raised in your time, I mean, there was a time where you had raised $0 and now you've gone on to raise tens of millions of dollars. So I always say to ask the question, is that really true? Is it hard to raise capital or do you maybe need to find a mentor or a coach like James or take James's program to really find out how other people are doing it? And that's the one thing that you've got to remember is for every problem that you've got or that you're facing, somebody does have the solution. But you can't sit there and think that it can't be solved. I mean, it's imperative that you really understand. That's why coaching and mentoring exists. And that's what I love about you, James, is you do all of this in your own real estate deals and you're an expert at it.   James: Yeah. It's very tricky, right? So there are so many reasons that even I was giving, sometimes I have self-talk and would say, Oh, that's no deal. Well, I really have to force myself to think that, okay, I need to be finding different ways to find deals. That's not like there are no deals, you just have to think differently and ask different questions.   Trevor: It's really true because today alone, I mean, if we take a look at today, somebody that owns an apartment building somewhere today is going to be diagnosed with heart disease or cancer, right? And they're gonna want to sell their property. Tomorrow, somebody's going to be getting divorced and they're going to need to sell their property. Tomorrow or the next day, someone's going to be going, man, it's too hot to live in Texas. My wife and I are ready to move to Florida and live on the coast where it's a little bit cooler. So you've got to believe that as the Baby Boomers age, and as people come up with real-life conditions like heart disease, cancer, divorce, moving, there's going to be more and more apartments for sale every day because that's what's happening to these apartment owners. So again, you've got to condition the belief system to believe that every day there are new great deals about to come online. Does that make sense?   James: Yeah. It's all about belief systems and I think it will appear, right? And I think you always have to think about how can you do things differently from everybody else. And a lot of times people are just want to be handholding. They want someone to hold their hand and show them...basically, they want to be fed by the spoon. Everything you want to be given just like that. It's not how it works. I mean, for example, when I started in multifamily in 2015, it was hard to find deals. Everybody say it's pricey. I used to buy deals, the deals and my market used to be like 55 a door and that was like expensive and I had to find different ways to buy deals at 35 a door. But the thing is it has been pricey since 2015. If you think the market is hot right now in 2019, I tell you it was really hot, even in 2013, 2014. It has always been hard. There was no such thing as it was easy last time. So, you know, it's going to be always difficult. You just have to find some different value proposition and do things differently from everybody else to get ahead. And that's what I did even in 2015. I used to start looking for direct to seller marketing, which nobody else was doing. I did find deals and that's how I penetrated the market. Otherwise, I would have been complaining and talking the same thing all over again.   Trevor: Well that's it. And people don't know what they don't know until they know. And I'll say that again: People don't know what they don't know until they know. And you have to absolutely start out by putting one foot in front of the other and starting to get some traction. Starting to look at, well, what are the different areas I could get a deal, find a deal, talk to a broker, go direct to seller? I mean for the committed, there's always a way; would you agree?   James: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for the committed and people who want to really, really be successful. A lot of people out there, like to be successful or they want to be, but there is no requirement for them to be successful. It's not like do or die. So it's not like breathing for air when you're underwater. When your head is pushed underwater, you want that air. That's how you should feel it when you want to be successful. So if you have that feeling then you will be successful. But if you want to be like, yeah, I mean, you know, if you are taking it lightly and if you want to be or you like to be successful, then, of course, you're not going to be successful.    Trevor: That's it.    James: Yeah, absolutely. So let's go for the second step after the mindset. What do you think is the next one that is very critical? Trevor: Well, I'll tell you, this is a big one too, James. And it really is what I call a lack of a strategic plan. And that means, as real estate investors, we've got to start with the end in mind. We've got to start with our outcome, we've got to get crystal clear on what it looks like. Are we going to invest in state or out of state? Are we going to invest with a partner or by ourselves? Are we going to look for properties that are in B class or C class? Are we going to look for things under a hundred doors or over a hundred doors? And so, I always remind people to sit down with a pen and a paper and get clarity on what their ultimate outcome looks like. And then from that place, we can reverse engineer it and start building the steps to move in that direction. Does that make sense?   James: Yeah. Yeah. Correct. And I think it also helps the person when they communicate with other people. So let's say when they're very, very specific with their goal, it helps them a lot. Like when they talk to a broker, if they say, I need a hundred unit in a C location with a C minus a property or B and a C location and I want this kind of expense ratio. Then that's definitely going to be very, very helpful for the broker to really, really give you the deal that you want. So what do you think?   Trevor: No, you're spot on. And again, you're going to start to really understand that the 80/20 rule applies; where 80% of people are just phoning up a broker and saying, what have you got for me? Whereas 20% of the people are going into that call with the broker with a lot of specificity like you would do: here's what I want, where I want it, what my budget is, here's my team. We've got capital ready to deploy and we're ready to take down a deal. Because let's face it, the world has sped up so fast and there's so much competition out there that if you can't speak intelligently to a broker and tell them what you really want and where you really want it, he's going to go give it to someone else who is specific. Does that make sense?   James: Yeah. Yeah. And I've seen brokers where I started talking to them for the first time, they call me immediately because even though they do not know who am I, but they said, well, your sentences tells me that you know what you're doing and you know exactly what you want, which is very important. Alright then, I want to buy a multifamily deal. I want to buy an apartment. So that's so high level.  But how do you think they should sentence it? I'm trying to think through this question here, how do you think a newbie or a new person who is trying to get into this business should phrase the requirement?   Trevor: Absolutely. So, it's a great question, James. And I think that today you can do it solo, but it's a lot easier to do it with a partner. Somebody like you where they might be able to say that my partners and I are looking for X, Y, Z. Because the first thing out of a broker's mouth is, do you have experience? Have you done a multiunit apartment deal before? And instead of saying, this is my first time and the broker going, Oh God, here we go again. It's literally, yes, my partners and I have done three deals or my partners and I have done seven deals or we currently own X number of doors. Even though the partner may own the doors and it's your first time kind of hanging onto the coattails of the partner, it's still credibility.  So you never want to lie to them but you do want to really take a look at, well, if I was to partner with someone who's already done what it is I'm trying to do, could I go faster? Because at the end of the day, and even as a master platinum coach, and again doing 20,000 coaching calls with real estate investors, I know that the whole goal is to turn decades into days. And it could take you years to break through with the broker on your own, where you partner with the right team and you can turn decades into days and really start putting yourself out there in a great way. Does that resonate?   James: Yeah, that resonated. So I'm trying to get your thoughts. Why do you think it's important to get a mentor rather than trying on your own?   Trevor: Well, again, I think that it's really, really intelligent to read books, listen to podcasts like yours, go to real estate events and really understand that if you could really turn those decades in today's, why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you want to have a coach or a mentor or an accountability partner or somebody in your tribe that has already done what it is you're trying to do? Because my mentor and coach, Mr. Tony Robbins says, "Success leaves clues."  And again, if we take a look at your success and Shante success, I mean, you've gone on to do, you know, I don't even know what you're currently sitting at, James, you'll have to tell me.   James: I've got like 1300 units.    Trevor: Yeah. That's a lot of units, not to mention, you're also a coach, you're also a speaker, you're also an author. You've got great training programs. So if I could learn from a guy like James Kandasamy or not, I mean the choice is obvious. I want to absolutely take a sneak peek behind your curtain and see what you've learned so I can turn those decades into days.   James: Yeah. It's crazy. I've met people who are really, really smart and I've talked to them about coaching, but somehow, some people just do not want to do coaching. I don't know why they think it's a bad thing. Because I had a lot of coaches, a lot of mentors. And a lot of times these people want to try to come into the business and do the business on their own, but they're not very, very successful until now. Because they can do auxiliary work, they can do the ecosystem work, but they can't be the primary keepers. I mean, coaching itself takes a lot of time. I can teach you 'A', I can teach you G but I can't teach you A to Z unless you go through the entire program. And A to Z will take you to become a true person who knows everything. We're on the top of the food chain, that's what I would say as an operator.  So sometimes people learn how to raise money or sometimes people learn how to do asset management or how to underwrite, but nobody really learns everything. So a coach would be able to tell you what's the fastest way to go from A to Z and don't make the mistakes. I think they can avoid a lot of mistakes and in the commercial real estate industry, it's just multimillion-dollar business. You know, you're handling investor's money if you're doing syndication, it's very, very key that you get someone that you can trust and have gone through that path and can tell you what are the traps to avoid. So I think that's very important. Trevor: Yeah, well, that's the main thing. I mean you talk about people really having three different modalities. Some people want to go out there and be the guy that finds the deal or the gal that finds the deal. Some are underwriters and the real numbers people and they want to work with the numbers and make sure it's all the numbers jive. The third type of person who wants to run and manage the asset. Maybe the fourth type of person wants to raise capital.  So again, at the end of the day you've got all of these core modalities, but there's all these submodalities like contracts and due diligence and really legal and financial analysis. Like at the core, where you're really protecting your earnest money or protecting time. Because I think time and money are the two greatest commodities in this game we're playing, called multifamily real estate. So when you think of checklists, when you think of really understanding and appreciating where do people succeed and also where do people fall down, I think it's like absolutely paramount to you being able to go further faster. Would you agree?   James: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Let's go to number three. What do you think is number three?   Trevor: Yeah, number three. I know it's the following in, it's called systems for support. Yes. Systems for support. Because you can't just go out there and freestyle today, you've got to create systems.Systems that might include a team. Systems that might include who's responsible for what. Systems that might include technology. Systems that remind you, when are you supposed to reach out to that broker again? When are you supposed to drive neighborhoods? When are you supposed to go to meetups? I mean, most people get up on Monday morning and go, gosh, what should I do to move my real estate business forward this week? And James, I call that hopium. You know, that's hoping you're going to find a deal, hoping you're going to find an investor. And if you want to play in the upper echelon of real estate, you've got to have tried and true systems where all that stuff's laid out well in advanced Monday morning. And when Monday morning comes, you start working on the urgent and important activities. Does that make sense?   James: Yeah. Yeah. It's very important. I mean, I think when I was starting up, I'm just sharing my experience because you brought up things that bring back memories. So when I started up, I was doing Excel sheet, everything. I even invested in management and all that. But as I grew bigger, I knew time was very important. You don't want to waste a lot of time and some things you can use for you to scale. Like even like all my investment management right now, there's a tool that I use right now. So no more doing Excel. So yeah, I mean even in the past six months, I put in a lot of time into creating systems and processes and procedures on my vertically integrated company so that we can scale. So, yeah, absolutely agree. Are there any tools that you recommend to create this kind of system?   Trevor: Well, it can be simple tools. It could be Excel. For somebody who's starting out, there are other underwriting programs. If you want to be a little bit more sophisticated, you might need CRMs to keep track of your investors because you're not just reaching out to two or three people. I mean, oftentimes we say that going out there and raising capital is a lot like flipping over a card from a deck of cards. And James, I know you've heard this cause we worked together, but you might go out there to an investor group or you might go to a meetup or you might go to a conference and you might literally share a unique opportunity with somebody and see if they want to put some money in. And every time you ask someone whether they want to come in on a deal, I call it, it's almost like you're flipping over a card. And sometimes you're going to flip over that card and you're going to get a two or three and they're not going to invest. Then you get somebody that might be an eight or a nine and they were close to investing, but they don't want to come in. And you keep flipping over cards and keep flipping over cards until you find an ACE. And an ACE is where you get an investor that literally comes in and puts 50 or a hundred or 250 candy or deal. And then you got to keep going out there and flipping cards. But if you don't know when your next conference is, if you don't know when the next meetup is, if you don't know who you're going to be getting in front of in the local community or maybe other parents of your children's, you know, maybe your children's have friends who have parents or professionals or doctors or whatever, I'm telling you, you're really running a risk of finding a great deal and then not being able to fund it. And that would be a tragedy today. So, people will always say to you, would you rather find the deal and then the investor or find the investors and then the deal? And it's almost a chicken and an egg. I always say I'd love to have a pool of people that are ready to invest so that when I know I've got that deal that I can move quickly on it. How would you speak to that, James?   James: Yeah, so I think yeah, I did the same as well. I mean, I tried to add value to a lot of investors and get them wanting to be in my list. Because they get so much value, they want to know what's happening. They want to know like how does the tax benefit comes in? How does asset protection come in? So I do a lot of webinars. So I give a lot of values and build that database with my investors. And it's also building a trust system because a lot of times, I think investors really want to work with someone they already know. They know, like and trust. And I've seen many, many times people come and ask me out of the blue, you want to invest with me? I said I do not know you man so how am I going to invest? It's just so difficult. So, yeah, I would agree with you, you need to have a group of investors first, then you go and find the deal. At least give them hope that you're looking and always give value to the investors so that they know that you are really caring for them.   Trevor: That's it. It's really all about adding value, adding massive value, adding more value than your competitor adds. And I'm telling you that that's really what makes the world go round. We're all here for nothing more than to grow and to contribute. And if you want to grow, you've got to be ready to contribute. And if you want to grow, you also have to be ready to have others contribute.  And that really does lead to number four, which is what I call having pillars for support. And pillars for support or where you start assembling your team. Do you have the person that can sign on the deal? Do you have the lender? Do you have the investors? Do you have the appraisers? Do you have the underwriters? Do you have the property managers? Do you have the general contractors, the roofers, the plumbers, the landscapers? You know, the same thing with a really good attorney. Same thing with a really good CPA, who knows all the tax advantages of real estate. I mean, if you're not assembling your pillars of support, you're really gonna miss out on optimizing and maximizing the performance. Does that make sense?   James: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I would add more to that. It's like when you have pillars of support, if you have a mentor, the mentor can tell you exactly who you want. I mean, you can get a PPM lawyer, but who's the best out there? The mentor can tell you because they've already gone through that phases of trial and error. Same thing with lenders as well, who's the best lender to work with you? And that's a lot of nuances in each of these, which can change your deal dramatically. If you don't underwrite properly, it can change your deal. If you don't have the right lender, it can change your deal. It also gives you an edge in terms of a buying deal in this market. If you know somebody that other people do not know or there are some things in that one person, you know that no one else knows, it gives you an edge in terms of winning deals. And there are so many nuances and everybody has their own style and it's not written in any book. I probably need to write a book one day. There's just so much of a value proposition on specific lenders, specific lawyers, specific underwriting techniques that people have gone through this and would know that not many people know. So yeah, I would agree to get in all the team establish, but at the same time, if you have a mentor, you will absolutely know who's the best team out there for you.   Trevor: That's it. And that's a huge part of real estate today. And it's paramount. It's an absolute must and not a should. Otherwise, you face a lot of challenges and then those challenges end up costing you money and those challenges end up costing you time. And not just your money but again, if you're using OPM or other people's money, the last thing you want to do is have to go back and explain that you didn't hire the best of the best for capital preservation or to make sure they redline anything in the deal that doesn't work or whatever. So it's a huge, huge part of what people really need to consider when they go out there and start doing this in a major way.   James: Got it. Let's go to number five.   Trevor: You got it. Number five is my favorite category and it kind of speaks to the last two, but it's officially called poor time management. Because James, here's the truth. I can tell the quality of an investor's outcomes by where they spend their time. And I'm going to be just completely honest with you that we all have the same amount of time. We've got something called, The Rule of 168 and what does that mean? Well, it means we all have 168 hours a week. Now, wee sleep for a bunch of those. We eat, we pay the bills, we spend time with the wife, the kids, the husband, the kids. But what are you doing with the rest of your time? Because you've got to make sure that you're not just doing lower-value activities, but you're doing higher-value activities. Things that can get you deals, things that can get you to meet different apartment owners, things that could get you in front of more brokers, things that can help you turn in more LOI, things that can help you really find a unique tribe of other investors. Where you're not just going out there and spending your time looking at individual investors but maybe you tap into someone who got a really nice big Rolodex so we can optimize and maximize our time.  Because at the end of the day, most people fall down here and they're not doing the things that they should be doing. They're doing busy work. For a lot of people, they think they're being productive but in an eight hour day, if you look at the statistics in America alone, people are only productive for about three hours of every eight hour day. And I'm certainly not saying that to you or me because I know how hard you work and you know how hard I work. But really, I would ask the listeners to really get crystal clear on, where am I spending my time and is there an opportunity to take it to a new level? Does that resonate? James: Yeah, it resonated very well. But let me give you some experience from time management. I used to work in one large company, the largest semiconductor company. And you know, after a few years I realize everybody's busy for nothing. There's so much of meetings and we are busy with meetings and when we're having meetings we are doing another work. So everybody in the meeting is on the laptop doing something else and the is still running. And there was another meeting to tackle too many meetings. There was a meeting, task force to reduce meeting. And the meeting task forces meeting too many times and at the end of the day, they got killed. So I mean, I left the company, I went to another much more smaller company, which is much higher efficiency and they don't have...they have half an hour meeting, nobody does work during the meeting, it's so much efficient. And I realized, wow, I missed so much of my time, you know, many, many years working in the first company and it's just ridiculous. You're a W2 employee, you are working on this big corporate bureaucratic company and you realize, half of your life is gone in meetings. You get paid and all that but what's the point? I mean, you are losing time throughout your life. And it's just so much of difference between a large company and small company, which runs much more efficiently. And yeah, time is something that is like a bank account where you deposit 24 hours everyday, but you're losing every day as well. You're losing all the money. You can't take it back. So imagine that kind of every day you start back early morning, you put back 24 hours and you can't really take it out again because it disappears at the end of the day. So either you use that whole 24 hours or it disappears at the end of the day.   Trevor: I think that's it. And really what I would say to the listener there, James is really, check-in with yourself, whether you're being outcome-focused or whether you're being task-focused because there's a big difference. If you're outcome-focused, you're really going, okay, what is the outcome for this meeting I'm about to go into? What do I need to achieve? Or if you're picking up the phone, you've got to start with, what's the outcome of me making this call? What am I really trying to get? Or what's the outcome of going to this meetup? Or what's the outcome of sending in this LOI? Or what's the outcome?  Whereas task-based people are just busy working off of a to-do list. They're just trying to get things done rather than really focus on, does this really help me go further faster? So I encourage everybody to get crystal clear on becoming an outcome-based thinker rather than a task-based thinker. Does that make sense?   James: Yeah, that makes sense. So can you give some example? Let's say if someone go to a conference, what are the outcomes that they can plan to get from the conference?   Trevor: I think that's a great question. Maybe you want to come out of there with 10 new contacts, 10 high-level contacts. Maybe you want to learn the next greatest thing about what's going on in the market. Maybe there's someone from Marcus and Millichap who's presenting there that puts up all these graphs and you start to see where millennials are not moving into and places where millennials are moving into. Maybe it's something about cap rates. Maybe it's something about legal or financial analysis or my favorite one, how to keep more money out of Uncle Sam's hand and put it into yours. Because I think real estate is the greatest wealth vehicle on the planet and there's so many tax advantages. But if you don't go a conference going, I'm going to come home with one or two new things about how to really optimize my taxes, you could be missing out. Versus just going to a conference to go to a conference and thinking, well, I'll just soak up whatever I can soak up here and that's it. Does that make sense?   James: Yeah. Yeah. I'm guilty of that. Sometimes I go somewhere and I don't really think about what outcome do I want. So I need to improve on that too. But that's really good advice because I think, as you said, time is very limited. You want to make sure you get outcomes for any action that you spend time on. Especially when you are getting away from your family.   Trevor: Especially if you're on a weekend conference or you going to fly to a different city or if you're spending a lot of money. I mean, the money's important, but you can always make more money, James, you can't get your time back as you alluded to.   James: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to ask you a dangerous question. You have been to many, many conferences for real estate. So without naming names, I mean, what kind of real estate conference that you think is the most beneficial for a newbie to start up in this syndication?   Trevor: Oh, that's a great question. I think you want to find somebody who has got, what I would say as a heart-centered tribe and what do I mean by that? Well, it's somebody that isn't just putting on a conference to make money, but somebody who's putting on a conference to really teach, to really coach, to really train, to really mentor, to really facilitate. And it's not where the speakers stand on stage and just pound you with information, information, information, information. Because I like those events where the newbie can go and do a lot of networking; have lunch, have dinner, ride in an Uber with somebody else because it's really, first of all, the human experience. And I think real estate is really not about being in the real estate business, it's about being in the relationship business. But secondly, I find that the events where you can go and have some networking time or break into small groups or do some focus groups or really have panels that talk about best practices, those are the types of events where I see newbies going into and coming out of there going, Oh my God, that was worth it  and more. Because it's not just the information they got, it's the transformation that they see in other people who have already started to do what it is they want to do. And they get inspired, they get engaged, they get enrolled, they get compelled and say, well, if they could do it, is it possible that I could do it? And those are the best types of events for people to go to.   James: Got it. Got it. Awesome. Okay, let's go to number six.   Trevor: You bet. Number six is all about leverage. It's all about outsourcing. It's all about that old model being broken of try to be everything to everyone. So what do I mean by that? Well, if my passion is going out there and finding great deals, and that's what I'm really good at and that's what I love spending my time doing, then that's what I should do. And that means I might give the outsourcing to someone else. That means I might give the underwriting to someone else. That means I might give the asset management to someone that's maybe really good at managing the asset.  So I'm a big believer that if you try to do every single thing yourself...I think it's good to understand it and have a taste of it but at the end of the day, what are you really good at and what do you love doing? And then are you able to outsource or delegate some things to other people who are passionate about what they do? What do you think of that?   James: Yeah. I mean, I was doing a lot of things on my own and actually we got really, really busy. I mean managing almost a hundred million dollars in assets and what I've learned for the past one year, I think well maybe one and a half years I've started outsourcing. I have like three VA's right now helping me all the way all over the world and they're really good. It takes time to train them, but once they're trained, they are really, really helpful. And I'm trying to focus a lot more on the most important stuff that can play to my strength and that's really good advice. Got it. So let's go to number seven.   Trevor: Yeah. The final one, number seven, is really all about taking massive action. It's where the rubber meets the road. Because you can get rid of limiting beliefs and you can create a plan and you can create systems for support and you can literally figure out what you're going to do with your time, you can leverage things to other people. But if you're not out there driving neighborhoods, talking to brokers, go into conferences, hiring a coach, learning the tax advantages, you're really fooling yourself.  Because when I say take massive action, notice I'm throwing in the word 'massive', right? It's not like, do a little bit and then stop and then do a little bit and then stop. I believe that momentum breeds momentum and the more you get excited about it and fired up about it and you go out there and do it, it's amazing to see how  investors, whether they're new, intermediate, or even veterans can really put the ball in the hoop and really find some great deals out there. The other thing that's kind of an extension of that is to have some sort of accountability. Whether that is a partner, whether that is a coach, whether that's a mentor. I mean, most people find that they get excited for a little while and then the going gets tough, James and then the path of least resistance kicks in and they find themselves watching Netflix every night instead of going out there and going to the meetups, going out there and driving neighborhoods. So you've gotta be very, very careful that it takes massive action, course-correct as you go. And then make sure you've got some system of accountability so that you stay on track.   James: Yeah. That's why I like a grant Cardone's 10 X, right? Because it's just a representation of taking massive action. Why are you looking at 1X or 2X 3X and that drives a lot of action, a lot of effort from your side. So I think that's what it means. A 10 X is not really, you know, he's asking you to really hit 10 X. Because it's not like not realistic. Of course, it's possible but I think the thing is, your thought process and the amount of work that you put in to go to that 10X, represent massive action. And I think that's important. I think mentors and coaches are very important because they hold them accountable. When someone is holding you accountable, you are like answerable to someone.  If you're on your own, you are like, okay, I can do whatever I want. So that's what happened. Even when I was doing my single-family, because single-family, you own everything. And sometimes we don't even look at financials, money come in, sometimes we lose money in cashflow. We don't really care. But when you have passive investors with you in multifamily, we are like looking at finances every day because now we feel very accountable to everybody. Because we are syndicating and holding passive investors and people trusting you. So that accountability factor is very, very key to have in yourself to be successful.   Trevor: That's it. That's it. And if you follow these seven simple steps and you really maybe go back and rate yourself on a scale of one to 10, where are you with your beliefs? Where are you with knowing your outcome? Where are you as systems for support and on and on and on. If you rate that out of 70, it's going to give you a score and then you're going to be able to start to take a look at how to close that gap. Because we're all humans and we all want more. We want more deals, we want more money, we want more fun, we want more love, we want more experience and travel. And I really do believe that you can have it all in real estate, but you're gonna need to really own those seven simple steps. And not just that one time, you've got to check in with them at least once a week or once a month. And then keep moving forward with what it is that you want to achieve.   James: Awesome. Awesome. That's absolutely a lot of value, Trevor. So why not tell our audience how to get hold of you?   Trevor: Absolutely. Thank you. It's really simple to reach out. There are two ways you can do it. You can simply go to my website, which is trevormcgregor.com. Or if you ever want to have a call and you're somebody who is serious about scaling your real estate and taking it through the roof. And right now, James, my clients collectively that I have in front of me right now, own $1 billion worth of real estate. So they're really serious about growing their portfolio and having a big impact. Anyone who's interested in playing at the next level and needs a high-level coach to help support that, you can simply go to www.coachwithtrevor.com. You can fill in your details, click the send button and we can set up a complimentary 45-minute call where I can hear more about what's working for you, what's not working for you, and we'll show you how to close that gap. And at that time, if you want to hear more about my coaching, I'd be happy to share it with you. But my main intention is to give you massive value on that call.   James: Awesome. Awesome. All right, Trevor, thanks for coming in on the show. I'm sure you added a lot of value to our listeners and audience and happy to have you here. Thank you.   Trevor: Thank you for having me on, James. And the final thing I'll say is, you know what? Have passion and have hunger. Because if you're passionate about real estate and you're hungry to go to the next level, that's where possibility lives. So thanks for having me on.    James: Awesome. Thank you.

Ashley: Hello. This is Ashley here with the Mompreneur Tribe. I am so thrilled today to have someone that's in it kind of different market. You really sometimes wouldn't think of a mom entrepreneur in this area. But here is a mom that is rocking it, is business partner with her husband. Her name is Catie Bird. She is with Harley Davidson of Durango, Colorado. Welcome, Catie. Thanks for being on. I'm just so excited because this is just ... You have such a unique business. So can you introduce yourself please and tell us a little bit about you? Catie: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much first of all for thinking of me and wanting to include me on your podcast, it's a really big honor. I think that being a mompreneur is definitely something to be really proud of and excited for. I'm in about two and a half years of entering that mompreneur role. So I'm still learning quite a lot of what it takes to be a business owner and whatnot. I'm just really grateful to you too for including me in this podcast. Catie: A little bit about me, my name is Catie and I am a southern girl from Texas, was born and raised in South Texas my whole life. And now as of about two years ago, I now live in Southwest Colorado with my husband, Trevor, who he and I have been married for 10 years, celebrated in November. We have two beautiful children. Millie is our daughter. She just turned nine last week and our son Reese, who turned seven recently as well. Catie: My husband, Trevor and I own Durango Harley Davidson here in Durango, Colorado, which is far Southwest Colorado. So if you think about the US map and you're looking in Southwest Colorado, we're right next to the four corners, so where we connect with Arizona, New Mexico and Utah. It's really a pretty amazing place to live as far as landscape, the mountain ranges and the rivers. It's just a beautiful place to be and a really big destination for motorcycle riders. Catie: There's so many wonderful rides that draw people here. So we are mostly a seasonal business, which is a big change for us from coming to Texas because we in Texas ... It's summer basically year-round. So people are riding motorcycle all the time, so things don't really slow down. Here, it's very, very different.We have about six out of the year to really sell, sell, sell, make it or break it before winter hits, and everything basically comes to a halt. So it's definitely a very different way of life in a very different style of business from what we're used to. I think we've done a really good job of adjusting to that and running our business based on that model now of seasonality. So- Ashley: Tell me about how you got there. That was the next thing is like why did y'all leave Texas to go up to Colorado and start out on this business? Because y'all been a part of the Harley Davidson Family for a while now, right? Catie: Yes, yes. My husband, Trevor has been working for the brand, sell Harley brand for gosh, close to 17 years now and with two dealerships back in Texas where we're from. I've never been involved with the Harley business. When I graduated college, I went into the corporate world and I started working for the NBA with the San Antonio Spurs was my first job out of college. Catie: That was a really amazing experience and really learned a whole, whole lot there. Then from then, from there I decided we were ready to start a family. And so I became a stay at home mom for about seven years, which I feel very blessed that I was able to do that as long as I was. All the time while I was staying at home or working with the Spurs, my husband was continuing with Harley Davidson in San Antonio in the New Braunfels area. Catie: Then I kind of started feeling my kids were getting a little bit older, starting Mother's Day out. I was kind of feeling like I was missing something, I love being a wife and a mom, but I was missing a purpose I felt like for myself outside of those roles. My best friend actually has started her own business selling custom men's wear, custom men's wear company. So I jumped on with her. Because I have a love of fashion, I have some merchandising background as well. So I jumped in and started my own business with her selling custom men's wear. So that was really fun and fulfilling. I was able to do it on my own time and still be there for my kids, and be home for Trevor and do the whole mom-wife thing as well. Catie: But just a few years ago, an opportunity kind of arose, Trevor and I had been really praying and thinking a lot about our future and what we wanted for our kids. While he had a partnership in some of the dealerships in Texas, we felt like it was time for us to branch out on our own, with all, with all of his years of knowledge, it was time for us to go and find our own dealership where that could be 100% owned by us and our family. Durango kind of fell in our laps, it's kind of a long story of how that happened. But it has been such a huge blessing. If you would've asked me 10 years ago where I saw myself today, living in Southwest Colorado, owning a motorcycle dealership would never have crossed my mind. Catie: I never grew up around motorcycles. I didn't know really much about them at all other than I would ride with Trevor and we would go places and do stuff. A little bit of the business side from what he would share with me. But that definitely was not in my wheelhouse of plans for myself. So it's kind of really interesting to see where I am now. But I wouldn't change a thing. It's been an amazing blessing for our family to be here. I also never thought I would leave Texas. I've gotten my Southern roots and they are deep. But it's really been fun, a fun adventure to try somewhere new and be somewhere new with meeting different people. There's so many wonderful blessings that have come from it. Catie: But now, when we took over ownership of the dealership back in June of 2017 is when we started, we were just blown away immediately by the team that was already here and in place. All of the managers that were with the business before we took over ownership are still with us today. That's something that Trevor and I are really proud of because this team that we have is in my opinion, the best in the business. Catie: They were really great about transitioning and learning a new way of doing things with our business model and whatnot. They have just really, really made our jobs easy as far as leadership because they all are leaders. They all do a great job. We really are a family here. And that's one thing that sharp and I have always talked about from the beginning is that we want to be a family where we want everyone to feel welcomed, and loved, and supported. Also, we are a family owned business. Our kids are very much involved in everything that we do here at the dealership and combined with them being here all the time and having a strong relationship with our team, we feel really lucky to be here. So that's kind of how we got where we are in a nutshell. Ashley: That's such a leap of faith to leave, be a Texan and leave. I feel like so many ... So many people come to Texas, they rarely leave unless it's a big calling. And you found that calling and y'all left. Now here you are, you're two and half years into this new business venture. But it sounds like you guys are very settled in it. Can you tell me a little bit about your roles? And what it's like being in business with your partner? And how you all divide up responsibilities and then day in and day out of juggling the kids? Catie: Yes, absolutely. So it's really kind of cool how it's worked out because I, to be honest, was not quite sure how it was going to go, working with Trevor 'cause we are together all the time anyway. And I'm thinking, are we going to butt heads? We've never worked together before. How is this going to work? And so it just fell into place in that I know his strengths, his strengths are my weaknesses and kind of vice versa as well. My strengths are kind of his weaknesses. So where Trevor takes over, he handles most of the overlooking things, the motorcycle sales division and all of the finance part of the business, which I am not a numbers person. That is so far over my head, and I will admit it. Catie: That is a big weakness of mine. Being a business owner, it's definitely something that you should know really well. I'm taking the baby steps to really try and dive, dive in and learn more about that side of it. But for now, it's great that I have this partner that does know that side really well so that I can focus on where the other needs in the business are, which are marketing and the merchandise sells, so the general merchandise department. So if any of you who aren't familiar with Harley Davidson or have never been into a Harley Davidson dealership, I'll just kind of explain a little bit of what it looks like. Besides this your showroom floor with all of the motorcycles, the new and used, we also have a very large general merchandise department. Catie: So clothes, fashion, writing gear, your leather jackets, your riding boots, all of your protective gear as well as just your casual gear that you wear when you're not on the bike, so the fashion side of it. There's also a parts department where you can come and buy motorcycle parts and then have them installed in our service department, which we have a really large service department. Very, very wonderful service department. Catie: We get compliments on our team back there all the time on their great service and, and how well that they do. So there's lots of different areas of the business that need to be managed and watched over. So Trevor does sales and finance and I handle all the marketing and the merchandise. And it works really, really well because there wasn't a marketing department here in the shop beforehand, before we took over ownership. Catie: It was kind of a split job between like our accountant. The accountant would kind of do it, the controller and everyone kind of shared responsibilities, which was great. They made it work because again, as a seasonal business, we only have about 10 full-time employees that are here year-round. Then once the season starts to pick up, usually in May, then we add about 10 to 15 more just for the summer. So we grow quite a bit in our peak season and then kind of go down to the skeleton crew in the winter time. But there wasn't a specific person that was handling the marketing. So my degree is in public relations and communication. So it was kind of an easy role for me to kind of just step into and start handling that part of it. Catie: So it's actually been really awesome working with Trevor because we respect each other's strengths and we lift each other up. We always lean on each other because we know that this is make it or break it for us. We moved our family away from everything that we knew to take on this dealership. This is our livelihood. So I know to respect him when he says, "No, Catie, this isn't going to work. We've got to restructure and think of something else," and vice versa. Catie: He does the same with me. So having that mutual respect and trust in each other has really made this partnership work, being able to work with my husband each day. I will say there are those days that he really gets on my nerves. I just go and I just shut myself in my office so that ... 'Cause we are husband and wife. We don't get along all the time and we don't always agree, but we respect each other. Catie: So I know when he's in a bad mood, if he's having a bad day, I'm just going to keep my distance today and I will handle what I need to do and vice versa. So it works. It works for us. Ashley: I like that you pointed out several different things. Being in a partnership with my mom, we've definitely learned that we play off of each other's strengths and weaknesses. So her strengths are some of my weaknesses and my strengths are some of her weaknesses. We really play that to the advantage of our business. Then at the end of the day, when you just have respect for your partner, your business partner, whether it's a parent or a spouse or a friend, it really truly goes a long way in business and being able to trust them that "Hey, this is for the good of the business." And like you said, it's your family's livelihood. It's the same with us. It's, actually two families' livelihood and plus you feel the responsibility of all the employees that you employ as well and their livelihood. Ashley: You want to make it work and make it successful for everyone. So I love those points that you pointed out. And then at the end of the day, not everything's perfect. We're all humans, right? So you really know how to keep your space. Catie: Yeah, absolutely. Ashley: So what is a tip that you would give to fellow mompreneurs that are trying to juggle it all and juggle having a business and kids? And because you were a stay at home mom, lik you are very active in your kid's lives and everything. How do you make it work? Catie: That's a good question and I think that I'm still figuring it out honestly. It's just day by day and for me, like I'm such a Type A planner type person that I feel like I have to have every moment of my day and my week planned out. I'm trying to reverse that and to just like being present in the moment and what I'm doing right then, and focusing on that and not stressing so much about what's going to happen later because I find that when I do that, if I'm at either when the kids are at work with me or if I'm at home with them, my mind is just constantly thinking about the next thing. Okay, what do I have to do next? What do I need to do for the kids next? Catie: Instead of being present right there and jumping down on the floor and making that puzzle with my kid or going outside just to kick the soccer ball with my son. I need to be more intentional and more present. And that's something that I'm really working on. So my advice for other mompreneurs out there is that even if you're not a planner or if you are, I do think it's ... I'm a very big list person. I think like being intentional and like actually scheduling that time even if it's just 10 minutes to give your children like your full attention is important 'cause otherwise, the day can just get away from you and you get busy getting ready for dinner, doing laundry talking to that client on the phone problem solving, doing homework, all of that tha. I find that if I schedule lik okay, from 6:00 to 7:00, that's strictly for Millie and I. Catie: Millie and I are going to sit and we're going to chat about her day. I'm going to give her what she needs right now. That's not going to happen every day. And that's okay. I think we also need to give ourselves as moms a lot of grace and understanding that we're not going to be perfect every day, all the time. The mom guilt is real. I have it all the time. The first year for me going from being a stay at home mom to working full-time in a new place without any other family here to help with the kids and all of that, I was really hard on myself and I felt like I was failing at everything, whether it'd be work or the kids because I wasn't doing it perfectly and I didn't have it all figured out. Catie: But now going into, let's see, we did two and a half years now. Like I'm finally learning that it's okay to not have it all figured out and to not be perfect in everything. My kids are loved. They're happy, they're flourishing in this new place. I rest in grace and mercy in that. Like I know that they are good. I guess the advice is just don't be so hard on ourselves. We're doing the best that we can and that's all we can do. I also think that it's really important for our kids to see us as moms struggling. I think that they need to see that mom isn't perfect but mom tries her best. I think that's important especially at work because my kids are at work with us all the time because we don't have extra help. We don't have other family here or whatnot. So a lot of times after school, they come up here to the dealership and they, luckily it's a pretty cool, fun place to hang out. My son loves to go to the service department and sit there and watch all the technicians work on the motorcycles. Ashley: Yes, a young boy's dream playground. Catie: Yeah. It's cool. I mean, I feel like he's getting an education just being back there, watching these guys work. He's got this engineer brain and it's really cool. He loves that. My daughter, she'll jump in on the sales floor and start folding t-shirts. She's an expert t-shirt folder now. She is very confident and talks to customers. It's so cute because I'll have customers come up to me and ask me if she's my daughter and I'll be like, yes. And they'll say, "Oh, she was so great. She came up to me and said, hi, welcome to Durango Harley Davidson. Can I help you find anything today?" So it's a cool place for them to be. I think they're also learning the value of hard work being here and seeing mom and dad running this business. Catie: But our kids also see our bad days. They see it like when there is an upset customer and they're watching how Trevor and I are resolving that. They're seeing like, if Millie comes back to my office and I'm just way behind on stuff, or I just lost this campaign that I ran just didn't go very well and I'm upset about it. I don't hide it from her. My son still so little, I think he's kind of oblivious to a lot of it. But my daughter, she's very in tuned to emotions and things. She doesn't miss a beat, but I let her see me. I don't try and hide it whenever things aren't going great. I think that obviously for her, her age, I don't show her everything that's bad or horrible. Catie: But I think it's important for kids to see that we're human and that we struggle when we fail. But the important thing is that we don't give up. That's one of our family rules. Birds don't give up, we don't quit. We can fail and that's okay, but there's more honor in failing than there is in not even trying because you're afraid to lose. That's big lesson that we want to teach our kids is you can't be afraid to go for what you want. We didn't make this leap of faith to Colorado with the expectation of failing. But we knew that we needed to do, we needed to make a change and this was where God's leading us. We're here and it's not always going to be easy and it's not always going to be exciting, fun, happy days. Catie: But we stand firm and knowing that we're here for a reason and we've got a purpose here. I just think it's important for our kids to see that we are human. When they see how we react to the problems and to things that are going good or bad, then they're learning as well. I'm hoping, my hope is that one day when they enter the workforce for real, they're going to know the discipline that it takes to be successful and not being afraid of failure because that was a big challenge for me is failing. Catie: Watching my husband throughout his business and his life with Harley Davidson, I've seen him take a lot of risks. We've also had a lot of failures. But I really respect that he's never let that stop him from trying something new and doing what he wants. So watching him go through that has given me the confidence to know that I can do this too. I may not know a whole lot about motorcycles. I do a lot more now than I did two years ago, but I know that I have passion for this brand. I have passion for our business and the people that worked here and our customers. It makes it extremely fulfilling to come to work every day. Ashley: Your passion just now, I am just taken away. When you said the we will show honor, more honor in failing like the life lessons that you just talked about right there and how you're showing that to your kids, it's so impactful. I tell this to my husband sometimes, I'm like taking our kids to work with us, they will learn so much more some days than they ever will in that classroom. Ashley: The life lessons, and you just like nailed it with everything you said and how your kids are involved in the business in the day in and day out, and being a part of it, and seeing your reactions with customers. I absolutely agree with you just because we have a retail store too. My oldest is old enough to come and understand those interactions. You're absolutely right. They're watching our interactions, they're learning from it. Ashley: It can be such a good thing. It can be such a good thing to show that to our kids and just the way you articulated it was so great and just hearing your passion behind it, how it's more than actually just you being a mompreneur and being in partner with your husband. But it's a whole family. It's the whole family there that made the move, that's doing this business together. That's incredible. I applaud you guys. I loved hearing all your passion just now when you were talking about just the tip that you give, it is true. It is so true. And how we be present in our day to day lives for our kids, but also to give ourselves grace. So much grace. Catie: Yeah. Exactly. So much grace. Yeah. We're not perfect and we never will be. But all we can do is just do the best that we can. I'm making it a goal of mine to just not worry so much about everybody being happy and everything being perfect and take me. It's okay. It's okay if they're not ... It's okay that they're here at work with me every day after school this week because I have a lot going on. You know what, that's all right. Because what would they be doing at home besides sitting there watching TV or jumping on the trampoline? They've got stuff to keep them busy here and I can be okay with that. They're going to be just fine. Ashley: Yes. Catie: So yes, grace is a big, big thing. Ashley: Yes. I look at it with our family business is that they could be at home with a babysitter in front of the TV or they could be there interacting with ... It's great communication skills. Catie: Absolutely. Ashley: It's much better than them learning to text or play on the computer. They're learning great communication skills, dealing with customers and learning to talk to our employees. Ttalking respectfully, I feel like that's a great teaching studio for them. Catie: Yeah, 100%. Ashley: Catie- Catie: That was awesome. Ashley: I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation today. I think you provided such wisdom to other fellow mompreneurs and especially that we just need to show ourselves grace. Something I ask all guests is what is a way that we can show up or support your business and you guys during this season? Yeah, how can we support you guys? Catie: Awesome. Well, you can support us if in the way of just follow us like on our Instagram page we actually have a really cool Instagram page. We do all these different lifestyle posts everyday of different motorcycle riders far and wide all around the country, in the world. They're really, really neat. They all have positive messages to them as well. So our Instagram page is @DurangoHarleyDavidson, all one word, no dash or anything. And then you can also check out our website, DurangoHarley.com. But one thing I want to touch on and follow us on Facebook too. Yeah. 'Cause we post a lot on there as well. But we also own a motorcycle rally that happens here every Labor Day weekend. We just finished year two for us. It's actually a rally that's been around for like 26 years or something. Catie: But right when we moved here, it kind of fell out. The previous owner that had some bad business skills kind of had ran it into the ground. But it used to be, there used to be 20 to 30,000 motorcyclists that would come through Durango on Labor Day weekend. It kind of fell apart. So my husband and I, and our marketing partner in the rally, John Oaks really tried hard to rebuild this rally. Catie: Bring it into a new light with different, with newer events like hooligan dirt, dash races. We just did our first ever motorcycle hill climb at Purgatory Resort, which is where our ski mountain here. It was a huge success and it was really, really awesome. I encourage you also to follow Four Corners Motorcycle Rally on Instagram as well. They post a lot of really awesome content, but the rally is a great way to support our local community here in Durango. They would bring a lot of economic success here for that, that one weekend. So that's a great way to support as well, just talking about what it is that we're doing here in Durango for labor day weekend and bringing in that next generation of motorcycle riders and bringing something fun to the community. Ashley: Awesome. So we will. We will ask, we ask all of you listeners out there if you will engage with them. So follow them on Instagram for the Four Corners Motorcycle Rally as well as Durango Harley Davidson on Instagram. I'm going to go check them both out. Then of course I didn't realize that different Harley Davidson dealerships have different websites. So that's good to know. If you are a Harley fan or maybe you have a need to buy a gift for a Harley fan, that's where I am. My dad had a Harley day was then growing up. And so my only purpose I've ever had in life is just to buy gifts. Ashley: So I literally walk up to the counter and just check out. I've never even explored the dealership. I just ordered and picked up there. S go and shop you guys at Durango Harley Davidson. All of this information will be in the show notes as well as if you click through and you got to our show through a social media link, go back to the social media page cause we're going to tag those in the social media pages. Ashley: Catie, I thank you for being a guest on today's show. Listeners, I invite you, you just heard me talk about how we can support Catie and her husband, Trevor in the Durango Harley Davidson dealership, their business. Please go out, engage with them on social media. Ashley: That is something you can do that is free, to support any business. And sometimes you hear a big brand and you think, "Oh, that's just some national brand." No, there's actually families behind these big brands. So the Bird Family owns this dealership. It's family-run. Sometimes people get lost in those big brands, but no, it's actually a family-owned business. So go out and support them. Ashley: And if you liked today's episode, I invite you to hit subscribe and leave us a review. We always are looking for feedback and comments, and want to hear all your great thought and reviews. So thanks for listening and have a great day. Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. To find out more about Ashley, log on to the MompreneurBoutique.com that's the MompreneurBoutique.com.  

Show Summary:   (Full Transcript Below) Let’s board that Blind Abilities airlines jet and head back to the enchanted Hills Camp in Napa Valley, ca., where Jeff caught up with another student of the Woodworking for the Blind (WW4B) workshop. In this interview, we meet Trevor Astrope, a Computer Analyst who works for Morgan Stanley, as the Global Lead for their Private Cloud. Yes, he’s a computer Geek! but Trevor is so much more! [caption id="attachment_4024" align="aligncenter" width="300"]Trevor and Jeff sitting outside the Art Barn at EHC.[/caption] He shares his story of life, his education and his views on blindness. He also shares his passion for building his own guitars and how WW4B helped him achieve the skill-level needed to accomplish this.  Hear of his original plan to use only hand tools to craft his guitars, but how WW4B gave him the knowledge and confidence to incorporate power tools as well. Hear Trevor describe his guitar-building process, from his template to his tools, and listen as his passion shines through!   Be sure to set aside a few short minutes for this fascinating interview with an interesting guest, brought to you by Blind Abilities!   Contact   If you wish to reach out to Trevor, shoot him an email. If you want to learn more about WW4B check them out on the web at www.WW4B.org And you can find out more about Enchanted Hills Camphere on the web. Thanks for listening! You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com Send us an email Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Store. Get the Free blind Abilities App on the Google Play Store Full Transcript: Meet Trevor Astrope: Computer Analyst, Woodworker and Guitar Builder, at WW4B and the Enchanted Hills Camp Pete Lane: Hi, folks. Pete Lane here. Welcome to Blind Abilities. Let's go out west again to the Enchanted Hills Camp in Napa Valley, California, sponsored by the San Francisco Lighthouse For The Blind. There, way way up on Veeder Mountain, is where Jeff Thompson connected with his old friend, George Wurtzel to teach a group of blind students the art of woodworking. Pete Lane: Jeff also connected with another one of his woodworking students, Trevor Astrope. Let's meet Trevor and hear about his blindness, his childhood and his passion for computers. Trevor: By six years old, I had optic neuritis, left me with about 10% of vision in one eye and about two percent in one eye. Then, when I was 12, in my good eye, I had the detached retina. My vision went from shadows to light perception to nothing, just over time. I had a teacher's aid group, grade nine, ten and eleven and then in grade twelve, they wanted me to be more independent, so they let her go. While I was in school, I was always into computers. When I went to university, I got a Unix account and taught myself how to use Unix. Unix is an operating system similar, but very different to say, Windows. Most internet servers are running some form of Unix. Pete Lane: And let's hear about Trevor's other passion. His passion for making guitars. Trevor: For me, I wanted to basically have my own custom made guitar. I didn't want a Gibson or Fender logo on it. I wanted my own logo and then I wanted it designed to my specifications. I realized, oh why don't I just try to do this myself because the only way it's gonna be the way I exactly want it, is if I do it. And that's kind of always been my philosophy in life like, if you want something done right, just do it yourself, right? I didn't think blind people could use industrial machinery or even hand tools. I like my fingers, I don't wanna lose them. I'm gonna do this all with hand tools. Trevor: One tool that is really helpful in guitar making is a handheld rotor. So I learned it here and that gave me the confidence to say, "Hey. Yeah, this is easy. I can do this." And it's much more precise and saves a lot of time. Pete Lane: Let's hear Trevor's advice for other members of the blindness community. Trevor: It's always hard starting because people will try to place barriers on you that you may not necessarily have. It's really important to be able prove yourself one way or another. You know that even if it's a short term position or maybe in volunteering, anything that you can sort of prove to people that, "Hey, I can do this." Pete Lane: And now, without further adieu, let's join Jeff Thompson and his guest, Trevor Astrope. Jeff Thompson: Welcome to Blind Abilities, I'm Jeff Thompson. And we're up on top of Veeder Mountain at Enchanted Hills Camp and we're attending the, Woodworkers for the Blind annual event. I believe this is the seventh annual event and this is part of San Francisco Lighthouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired. I'm sitting outside on the deck of the workshop and we're visiting with Trevor Astrope and he's from Montreal. How are you doing, Trevor? Trevor: I'm doing great. Jeff Thompson: Great. Trevor, can you tell what your job duties are, what you do for a living? Trevor: So I work in IT. I work at Morgan Stanley and I work as the global lead for the level three operations team for their private cloud. Jeff Thompson: And you have an interest in woodworking, mostly centered around guitar building? Trevor: Right. So I'm an aspiring guitar builder. I work in my home, primarily in my kitchen/workshop and I'm building guitars primarily by hand with some power tools. So yeah, I come to these workshops to learn new skills that I can take back home with me and apply to my guitar building. Jeff Thompson: That's great. And how did you find about the WW4B Event out here in Enchanted Hills? Trevor: I found out first, by finding WW4B and then, subscribing to that mailing list and joining the group to get access to the website and the articles and then from there, I found out, hey there's a summer workshop. And even before WW4B, I was searching on the internet to find out if there was any kind of blind, woodworking workshops because I did see some YouTube videos where there were people showing videos about teaching blind people woodworking and George [inaudible 00:04:08] one of these people. And I'm like, "Well, how do I get there? How do I find that?" And I searched the internet, I didn't really find anything how to get to these places, but then, I found WW4B and then from there, that's where the workshop is organized through and advertised through and I said, "Ah. That's where I wanna be." Jeff Thompson: And you can find that at, WW4B, and that's the number four, WW4B, the number four, B.org on the web and you can look on there. And if you're interested in woodworking or finding out more about it, that's where you would go. Jeff Thompson: Trevor, you're blind, visually impaired? Trevor: Totally blind. Jeff Thompson: When did this all take place? Trevor: Well when I was six years old, I had optic neuritis, left me with about 10% of vision in one eye and maybe about two percent in one eye, which was just peripheral vision. And then, when I was 12, I had in my good eye, I had the detached retina, which was misdiagnosed and didn't go treated in time and then, my vision went from shadows to light perception to nothing, just over time. Jeff Thompson: So, how was your educational journey with accessibility, alternative techniques? Were you mainstreamed, what was that process like? Trevor: Yeah, so I grew up in a northern community in Canada. I read large print, was a low vision user all through school because I lost my sight when I was in the first grade and I managed pretty well. I had the CCTV enlarger and large print typewriter and that kind of thing because my handwriting was very messy, I was always told teachers couldn't read it. So they always wanted me to type, so I learned to type at a young age. When I was 12 and I lost my sight, I left this town and I moved to Winnipeg, Manitoba and I lived with my grandmother to go to school in the city because there was much more resources there and I can braille my work and then they would translate it. Trevor: And then I started using computers at that point. This is in 1980s around 1985, 1984, 1985 and I started using versabraille, an Apple II computer, then I started doing most of my work with those technologies. And when I eventually went to university, I took the same type of thing, except I had a PC by that point and the newer versabraille and at some point I got, what was the other thing that was called ... Braille and speak. I got a braille and speak for a while too. Jeff Thompson: Do you went to mainstream school through your educational process? Trevor: Right, right. It was all sort of facilitated through the Manitoba Department of Education. They had a special branch that they had consultants that liaison between the school and Manitoba education produced all their own materials. They had their own recording studio and did record books. So any books on the curriculum, they produced. And like I said, I could braille my work, it would ship there and then they'd have people that would translate it and write it all out, in between the braille lines, it would print out what it was and they'd send it back. And there was like maybe two or three day turnaround for that. Jeff Thompson: Oh that's awesome. So did you have a teacher for the visually impaired? Trevor: I had a teacher's aid once I got to high school that did a lot of that work that went back and forth. She learned how to read braille and then she would translate my stuff, she would do tactile drawings, she would do a lot of reading of materials that weren't available or articles or different materials that we had, that was sorta at hawk, she would do that. And she worked part time, so yeah, she worked with me during high school. Through grade nine, ten and eleven and then, grade twelve, they wanted me to be more independent, so they let her go and they wanted me to fend for myself because they knew I was going to university and I wouldn't have those kind of resources around. Jeff Thompson: You had to start advocating and doing it yourself? Trevor: They wanted me to learn to be more independent, so grade twelve I went solo. Jeff Thompson: When you were at university, did you have a student's disabilities office, of sorts? Trevor: Yes, there was. Well, they had a computer center which had PCs with, what was the voice program back then that we used, was it called flipper, something like that? Jeff Thompson: Oh, wow. Trevor: It'd be early 90s I guess. Like I said, I used the versabraille for a long time and then I got a PC. They had this computer room, which had the braille printer and they had a bunch of stuff in there. I went to write my exams there. So the teacher would give the exams, they would put them, usually, on a computer and then I would read them on the computer and answer them on the computer. Jeff Thompson: So, I have a feeling in the years that you were doing this, was it very acceptable or was it standard that people would be going to this computer science fields like you were? Trevor: No, it wasn't. When I first started university, there was a computer programming for the blind course and it was on mainframes. And my first year was the last year of this program because mainframes were being supplanted by PCs, right, and Unix type of systems. So they were a dying system and so, I think what they were finding is that the graduates of these programs were having a difficult time getting employment. I was interested. I used computers all through high school and I did have an aptitude for it, but it was just not something that was open for me because the university I went to ... This is sort of when the Mac and PC were challenging for supremacy and they put their money on the Mac. So all the computer science, computer labs were all Mac and the accessibility just wasn't there. They didn't have voice-over. What was the predecessor to voice-over? I can't remember. Trevor: But anyway, it wasn't something that was really gonna be accessible for me. I took an arts degree, general arts degree in sociology and political science, but meanwhile, while I was studying this, I did have a Unix account and access to the Unix system, which I would access via PC. Then I just taught myself how to use Unix because it just gave me so much more accessibility. Back then it was tell them that you [inaudible] into the library had an interface so I could go and I can search for all the books I needed for my essays and then I can reserve them and then I can just go there and pick them up and they'd have them all ready for me. Then I had a scanner with the [inaudible] software. Jeff Thompson: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Trevor: Yeah. And I had that and then I would scan all my books and all my materials. When I first started with tape based stuff, but my first year in university, all my textbooks were, and I guess everybody can relate to this, they were all one edition behind because they would only re-record it if it was more than two editions out or something. So I'd go write a test and some of the times, the questions would be totally different because they rearranged the chapter numbers. And so, I always had to ask students, "What's ..." Because they'd say read chapters, what, two, four and eight, they'd skip around. [inaudible], "Can you tell me what the titles of those are?" And occasionally one of those chapters would just be totally missing. Jeff Thompson: Looking back at the amount of work that you kind of had to do, just before you can even start doing your homework, like scanning, collecting it, making it organized and getting it ready, then you could start reading it or read it as you go, however you did it. And now, you see people today with the handheld device such as the iPhone or the technology that they're utilizing today ... Trevor: It's totally different now. I thought it was amazing when I got access to Unix and I could go online and search books and find them and read newspaper articles online and find some information like that. I thought that was just totally revolutionary because before that, it was like I said, it was books on tape, that's what I was using and that was really archaic. And now, I see, I mean not only can they access books from ... They don't have to even go to a library, you can just download the books and read them. You just can't compare with available now to what was available then and even then, I thought what was available then was so much better than people before me, right, so it's always improving. Jeff Thompson: And that's kind of interesting because you got hooked up with Unix early on, which gave you access to a lot of stuff people were trying to get to that didn't know anything about Unix. You kind of had a jump start. Trevor: Yeah and I did it out of my own self-interest that this gave me access to information I didn't have access to otherwise. I couldn't read a newspaper and I couldn't get newspaper articles. Just day to day stuff, not just with school, I thought this was amazing. So yeah, I took to it and I learned it and it was great. And then when I graduated, I have a general arts degree, which wasn't very helpful for me finding a job, but it was right in the 90s when the internet was exploding and people who knew Unix were high in demand. So I just naturally found myself doing that kind of work, doing some consulting work in the beginning because it'd be small companies that people who you know, know somebody and they say, "Yeah, we wanna get into an internet. We don't know how. How do we get internet?" "Oh, well I know how to do that. I can get you on the internet, no problem. I could set up a mail. You want an email? Really, I'll set you up in a mail server." Trevor: And fax servers were huge in the 90s. I did a lot of work setting up fax servers for small businesses and stuff like that. And now, nobody uses faxes anymore, but that was a big thing then, too. That's what really helped me. Going to university, yeah I got a degree, which I'll say was a useless degree, but it wasn't useless because if I hadn't gone to university, I wouldn't have learned Unix. I would never would have learned that. Jeff Thompson: Can you explain Unix to the listeners? Trevor: So Unix is an operating system. Similar, but very different to say, Windows or macOS, but more similar to macOS because macOS is a graphical interface built on top of Unix. So it's underlined operating system and it's primarily the operating system that runs the internet. So most internet servers are running some form of Unix, most web servers are running on a form of Unix. Nowadays Linux is pretty much dominated the market and there's various different flavors of Linux, but it's all the same thing when it gets right down to it. It's just how it's packaged. Jeff Thompson: Still the Microsoft operating system, Apple operating standard are just interfaces that the general public uses to connect [crosstalk]? Trevor: It's better for the desktop, right? It's a user productivity tool that helps people access software and prevent nicer menus and more usable interfaces. Whereas Unix, you're not concerned about the interface, you're more concerned about the performance and it was just designed for a server architecture. Windows came from the desktop and then they made a server version from that, but Unix is the other way around. It started out as a server operating system and they made a desktop out of it. Jeff Thompson: What suggestions would you have for someone who is transitioning from high school to college to the workplace? What advice would you have for them? Trevor: For me, it was, like I said, I did a lot of consulting work. So if you have a skill and you have something that you can do, that was a good way to start like project base to say. In my field it was easy because it was sort of a task and, "Oh, okay. We wanna be on the internet, how do we do that?" "Okay. This is what you need. This is what you need." And set it up. But sometimes it's good just to ... You have to just get your foot in the door, right, and then you have to prove yourself and then once you have, then you can build upon that. So that's what I've found. It's always hard starting because people will try to place barriers on you that you may not necessarily have. It's really important to be able to prove yourself one way or another. You know that, even if it's a short term position or maybe even volunteering, anything that you can sort of prove to people that, "Hey. I can do this." Jeff Thompson: Great. Trevor, we both have an interest in music and it seems like it goes back to somewhat guitar style music from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and that was a common thing plus the woodworking and then you mentioned that you wanted to build guitar. What got your interest in manufacturing, building your own guitar? Trevor: I collect guitars and what really got me started is, you can buy guitars in China, which I'll say are generally counterfeits. They will make them as a copy of an existing guitar. But for me, I wanted to basically have my own custom made guitar. So, I didn't want a Gibson or Fender logo on it, I wanted my own logo and then, I wanted it designed to my specifications and it was kind of hit or miss. Well, I only bought two guitars. One was really great and one was ... I got a bit ambitious and I tried to really spec it out to a lot of details, but there was a big communication problem between someone who doesn't speak English very well and someone who doesn't speak Chinese at all, right? So, at that point I realized, "Why don't I just try to do this myself because the only way it's gonna be the way I exactly want it, is if I do it." And that's kind of always been my philosophy in life like, you want something done right, just do it yourself, right? Jeff Thompson: And if you can't afford it, you better be able to make it yourself. Trevor: That too, exactly. Jeff Thompson: So what was your first start? How do you get started? First of all, you're talking woodworking, I used to teach woodworking to students and it was like that's an expectation that shocked them like you're gonna operate machinery. Trevor: Right. I had that same thought, myself like I didn't think blind people could use industrial machinery or even hand tools. I thought, this is very dangerous, I like my fingers, I need them every day. I don't wanna lose them. So I thought, my approach in the beginning was, "I gonna do this all with hand tools. I'm doing it as a hobby, this is not an occupation for me. I'm making guitars for myself, not for anybody else. I have time. I don't have a deadline, so I'm gonna learn hand tools and I'm gonna build the guitars just using hand tools." Plus, I had limited space. So I live in an apartment and I work in my kitchen. I didn't wanna make a huge mess. Hand tools are less messy than power tools ... Jeff Thompson: Now, what you call an apartment is like a condo here, you own the space? Trevor: Sure. I got some ... A little more flexibility. Jeff Thompson: So you can choose what you do? Trevor: Yeah, sure. Jeff Thompson: There you go. Trevor: But it's still an apartment style building, it's apartment style layout. So yeah, so I started with the hand tools and I use nothing but hand tools. And I made a guitar body, not that I finished it, but I just wanted to get the experience. I just use cheap lumber. This is not gonna be my masterpiece, this is gonna be my learning, test piece. So I joined two pine, two by eights, I bought one from Home Depot and they cut it up for me and then, I sawed it by hand to the length I wanted. I glued the two pieces together to make it wide enough for a body. So I learned, okay, this is how you edged one, how to make a plane, I had to make each side to be plane straight, so you could join them together without a gap. So I learned these basic techniques that everybody woodworking needs to know. Of course you get machines to do that, I did it by hand. Trevor: And then I used a special saw, called the bow saw, which is not a bow saw you cut tree limbs because if you do an Amazon search that's what you'll get, but it's an old world tool before the band saw existed is what they used these tools for. So it can cut around. It has handles on the side and you can turn the blade to cut at any angle, any curve you want. And I can even cut 90 degrees with it. I had a guitar template. I bought the template, the shape of a guitar was like on a piece plywood that's quarter inch plywood, gives you the two dimensional shape of the guitar. Made another template of that. Using that template, I used a bow saw to cut another one out and then I placed the pine wood that I glued together, in between. So there was a template on the front and a template on the back. I had to use a drill and I drilled dowels to go through, so I can line the back template up with the front template. Then I used that saw to cut the guitar body. Trevor: And it's very rough because you can't go in a smooth motion when you can't see what you're doing. So I'd have to stop to make sure I didn't go too far out or I wasn't going too far in. So you get kind of a wavy pattern along the lines and then I used these small, little palm planes that are very fine and very small and can get into tight spots, just to clean up the edges and I got it all smooth. And I did the same on a guitar neck, I used a router plane, another hand tool, to cut the trust rod channel, a spokeshave for carving the neck. And that's as far as I got before I came here. Last year was my first, Woodworking for the Blind Workshop and that introduced me to tools. Again, I don't have the space for these big tools that hare here, but one tool that is really helpful in guitar making is a router, a handheld router. I had learned how to use that while I was here. I never would have bought it on my own because I wouldn't have known how to use it. Trevor: So I learned it here and then that gave me the confidence to say, "Hey, yeah this is easy. I can do this." So I've been working with that tool now to do a lot of the work cutting the cavities, cutting the shape and it's much more precise and saves a lot of time. And there's still a lot of room for the hand work and carving the neck using spokeshaves and planing to join wood. I use a combination of hand tools and power tools and as I learn more power tools, I'll probably incorporate more of them into my work. Jeff Thompson: That's really cool. Jeff Thompson: It's like you've had drive like whether it was to get more involved with Unix, gaining access to books and then when you wanna learn something, you go to the resource and you went to WW4B.org and ... Trevor: I've always been self-taught like I taught myself Unix and I taught myself woodworking with the hand tools, but there's a line. I wasn't gonna teach myself on tools that could injure myself that I wasn't confident in. That's what this workshop gives me that confidence to learn stuff and say, "Hey, yeah. This is doable and this is easy." There's a limit that I'll go to, I won't endanger myself in my pursuit of knowledge and skills. Otherwise, I like to learn stuff and I like to learn stuff on my own. Part of the discovery of it. Having people show you stuff is great, but to me, it's the discovery, right? Jeff Thompson: The experience is the best teacher, isn't it? Trevor: Yeah. Exactly. Jeff Thompson: We've been talking to, Trevor Astrope, from Montreal, Canada and he's down here at the WW4B annual sessions. You're attending both of them, there's a beginner's and an advance? Trevor: Yeah. I was in the beginner's last year and I still am a beginner, but I've learned some skills that go a little bit beyond the beginner. And I'm not quite advanced yet, but I would become advanced. So I'm gonna hang out with the advanced woodworkers to learn the skills and tips and tricks from them, so I can become an advanced woodworker. Jeff Thompson: Tap their brains? Trevor: Exactly. Jeff Thompson: And that's what it's all about. Getting experience, learning from others and getting a tool in your hand and doing something. So Trevor, if someone wanted to get ahold of you, yeah, how would they do that? Trevor: Probably the easier way is just send email, Trevor@Astrope, A-S-T-R-O-P-E, .C-A. Jeff Thompson: So, we hope you enjoyed this. We're gonna tune out from the top of Veeder Mountain, out here in Napa, California at the Enchanted Hills Camp. Thanks, Trevor. Trevor: Cool. Pete Lane: This concludes Jeff's conversation with Trevor Astrope. We'd like to thank Trevor for taking time out of his day at WW4B to chat with Jeff and we wish him all the luck in the world with his guitar building efforts. And for all of you out there, thanks so much for listening and have a great day. Pete Lane: For more podcasts with the Blindness Perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com. Pete Lane: We're on Twitter. We're on Facebook. Pete Lane: And be sure to check out our free app, in the Apple app store and the Google play store.  

After our first episode together Trevor Crook got a disturbing review from none other than his wife; Julia. Apparently we forgot to be entertaining. So Trevor and I decided to have another go at it to see if we could entertain Julia. To help we got John of Belmore to tag along as our Entertainment Monitor.

The message you deliver in your marketing can make or break how well it works. Your direct mail, website, ads, you name it… copywriting is THE single most valuable skill you can learn to make your marketing more effective. So Trevor invited on his good friend and world-renowned copywriter Ben Settle (the king of email copywriting) to talk about how you can connect with your audience better in real estate and boost your marketing with better copy.