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Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest Roxxy Haze Lawrence Killebrew This Week We Discuss Noisy Neighbors vs Nosey Neighbors Work With People 15-20 Years Older vs 15-20 Younger Attend A White Potluck vs 6 Hour Time Share Presentation

Podcast for a deep examination into the career and life choices of Eddie Murphy & Jim Carrey. An old nemesis tries to rebrand themself, but the hosts aren't falling for it. Lev thinks termites are causing issues with his soundboard and watches the film 'Mouse Trap' to get inspiration for how to exterminate pests. Why would he be using an electronic device made out of wood? Find out on this week's episode of 'What the Hell Happened to Them?' Email the cast at whathappenedtothem@gmail.com Disclaimer: This episode was recorded in September 2025. References may feel confusing and/or dated unusually quickly. 'Meet Dave' is available on DVD, Blu-ray, & Multi-format (which is really just the first two things): https://www.amazon.com/Meet-Dave-Blu-ray-Eddie-Murphy/dp/B001F7Q4IE/ Music from "Popcorn" by Music with Analise   Artwork from BJ West   quixotic, united, skeyhill, vekeman, murphy, carrey, versus, vs, meet, dave, rock, carey, old, union, banks, macguffin, johnson, caan

  Welcome to the Prehospital Emergency Care Journal Podcast! In this PEC Podcast Deep Dive, Rebecca Cash and Maia Dorsett interview Dr. Tony Fernandez about his recent PEC paper comparing initial prehospital adenosine doses of 6 mg versus 12 mg for presumed SVT. We explore the study's origins, dataset design, and results—including the finding that starting with 12 mg was associated with higher rates of cardioversion and fewer redoses without an increase in complications. Along the way, we discuss the quirks of EMS data, why some “standard” practices exist without strong evidence, and how retrospective studies fit into the bigger picture of protocol change. For those whose interest in study methods was piqued, here's a great short primer on odds ratios versus relative risk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWtzaKYFg00&t=175s Featured Article Fernandez, A. R., Bourn, S. S., Duncan, D., Slovis, C. M., Crowe, R. P., Treichel, A., & Myers, J. B. (2025). Comparing Prehospital Adenosine Initial Dosing of 6 mg Versus 12 mg for Presumed Paroxysmal Supraventricular Tachycardia (PSVT). Prehospital Emergency Care, 1–6. https://doi.org/10.1080/10903127.2025.2504521

Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest Roxxy Haze Dion Lack Young Deuces  This Week We Discuss Never Pay For Gas Again vs Never Pay For Electricity Again Run A Marathon On A Road Of Legos vs Be A Barehanded Cleaner At A Petting Zoo  S/o To Our Sponsors Better Help https://betterhelp.com/squadd Get 10% Off Your First Month Ava Download The Ava App Today Promo: SQUADD

How does status infiltrate all of our decisions, and how is status allocated in a networked society?Toby E. Stuart is a professor at the Haas School at UC Berkeley and also the author of the new book called Anointed: The Extraordinary Effects of Social Status in a Winner-Take-Most World.Greg and Toby discuss the influence of social status on various aspects of life, including consumer behavior, resource allocation, and decision-making. They explore the concept of the Matthew Effect (how status leads to more status), the interplay between status and merit, and the implications of prestige in different fields such as academia, venture finance, and entertainment. The episode also examines the role of status in creating inequality and the potential benefits and challenges of implementing measures to reduce the impact of status in decision-making processes.*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:The big shift why we trust the painter over the painting12:17: What do you do when you have to make a choice about something, but you have no real ability to evaluate its quality? Right? And, you know, that is true of so many things. Like, it is true of a hotel room you have never seen before, or a restaurant you have never been to before, or, like, you know, which of these things are going to be good? And in the book, I make the argument that what you do—I call it the Big Shift—is, if you walk into a museum, say, and you see a piece of art on the wall, I mean, you know it is in the museum, but you do not know whether it is high quality or not. But then you see the artist's name, and what you do know is, it is a Picasso, and I have heard of Picasso, and he is a very famous artist. And, in theory, he makes excellent art. And because of that, this is a very good picture. This is an amazing piece of art. But what you just did there is you took the identity of the artist and you assigned it to the art itself.Status exists only in relationships08:41: Status is a resource that is created in a social system. So individuals and groups give status to members, but it does not exist absent the social relationship. And right there, you can see the link to social networks, because flows of deferences are forms of relationships.Born on third base privilege and status56:16: So there is still today the prosperity gospel, and people who are successful often believed that it was a form of pre-ordination, like they were destined to get whatever they have, you know. But the other part of it is, you know, is best summed up by, you know, this quote I have always loved. I think, you know, the providence is occasionally debated, but it is often attributed to Barry Switzer. You know this one, and it goes: he refers to someone and he says, like, “You know, that guy was born on third base, and he has always thought he hit a triple.” Right? And that is what we call privilege these days—where you have all of these advantages. You were born with the advantages, you did not earn them, but you think you did, and therefore you attribute your status to your own merit. Versus what actually happened is you were born on third base; you did not ever hit the triple.Status on steroids in the digital age42:19: What happens when we have these digital platforms? When we have digital platforms, like anybody can get onto Spotify or Pandora or Apple Music or whatever, and they can find any piece of music literally created. Just like, you know, 99.9% of all recorded music exists on these platforms. And so you can find anybody's music. And so anywhere in the world, you can listen to the oboist—that one oboist who is the greatest in the world. So the globalization of the audience changes the nature of what happens in the marketplace, so to speak, and in a radical way. And then, if you have a cumulative advantage process which pushes people up to the top, that unfolds on steroids if you are looking at a global digital marketplace versus the way the world used to work.Show Links:Recommended Resources:Matthew EffectNetwork TheoryRobert B. ParkerWine RatingJohn Strutt, 3rd Baron RayleighRichard Wrangham - UnSILOed Episode 5Alexis de TocquevilleCaste SystemJohn D. RockefellerReformed ChristianityGuest Profile:Faculty Profile at Berkeley HaasTobyStuart.comLinkedIn ProfileBerkeley ExecEd ProfileSocial Profile on InstagramSocial Profile on XGuest Work:Anointed: The Extraordinary Effects of Social Status in a Winner-Take-Most WorldGoogle Scholar PageResearchGate Page

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Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest David Murphy Donny Big Irish Jay This Week We Discuss Punched In The Face By Mike Tyson Once vs Chased By A Swarm Of Hornets For 5 Minutes Have A Permanent Injury From A Crime vs A Failed Sexual Exploit Help A Struggling Man Pastor Grow Membership vs Help Your Worst Ex Find Love S/o To Our Sponsors Cash App Download CashApp Today Use Code Secure10 At Sign Up Recieve $10 FREE After You Send A Friend $5 Blue Chew Blewchew.com Promo: SQUADD Prize Picks Get $50 In Lineups After You Post Your First $5 Lineup Download PrizePicks Today Promo: SQUADD

Jaws is back in theaters and the box office has capsized. Plus loads of movie news on a special Labor Day edition of Versus hosted by Alan Ng along with special guest co-host The Angry Badger. Hilarity ensues.

Podcast for a deep examination into the career and life choices of Eddie Murphy & Jim Carrey. Joe has trouble finding the point of this week's movie since it is the size of a speck. Patrick gets lost down a rabbit hole of Whovian biology. Lev tries to invent a cancerless cigarette so he can look cool. Will he look "Tony Leung" cool? Find out on this week's episode of 'What the Hell Happened to Them?' Email the cast at whathappenedtothem@gmail.com Disclaimer: This episode was recorded in August 2025. References may feel confusing and/or dated unusually quickly. 'Horton Hears a Who' is available on DVD & Blu-ray (which looks a lot like a DVD): https://www.amazon.com/Horton-Hears-Who-Family-Icons/dp/B019WMTVO2/ Music from "The Lorax Rap" & "Green Eggs and Ham Rap" by Wes Tank   Artwork from BJ West   quixotic, united, skeyhill, vekeman, murphy, carrey, versus, vs, horton, hears, who, seuss, elephant, carey, conspiracy, carrell, burnett, geisel

You're listening to Burnt Toast! Today, my guest is Ash Brandin of Screen Time Strategies, also know as The Gamer Educator on Instagram. Ash is also the author of a fantastic new book, Power On: Managing Screen Time to Benefit the Whole Family. Ash joined us last year to talk about how our attitudes towards screen time can be…diet-adjacent. I asked them to come back on the podcast this week because a lot of us are heading into back-to-school mode, which in my experience can mean feelingsss about screen routines. There are A LOT of really powerful reframings in this episode that might blow your mind—and make your parenting just a little bit easier. So give this one a listen and share it with anyone in your life who's also struggling with kids and screen time.Today's episode is free but if you value this conversation, please consider supporting our work with a paid subscription. Burnt Toast is 100% reader- and listener-supported. We literally can't do this without you! PS. You can take 10 percent off Power On, or any book we talk about on the podcast, if you order it from the Burnt Toast Bookshop, along with a copy of Fat Talk! (This also applies if you've previously bought Fat Talk from them. Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)Episode 208 TranscriptVirginiaFor anyone who missed your last episode, can you just quickly tell us who you are and what you do?AshI'm Ash Brandin. I use they/them pronouns.I am a middle school teacher by day, and then with my online presence, I help families and caregivers better understand and manage all things technology—screen time, screens. My goal is to reframe the way that we look at them as caregivers, to find a balance between freaking out about them and allowing total access. To find a way that works for us. VirginiaWe are here today to talk about your brilliant new book, which is called Power On: Managing Screen Time to Benefit the Whole Family. I can't underscore enough how much everybody needs a copy of this book. I have already turned back to it multiple times since reading it a few months ago. It just really helps ground us in so many aspects of this conversation that we don't usually have.AshI'm so glad to hear that it's helpful! If people are new to who I am, I have sort of three central tenets of the work that I do: * Screen time is a social inequity issue. * Screens can be part of our lives without being the center of our lives. * Screens and screen time should benefit whole families.Especially in the last few years, we have seen a trend toward panic around technology and screens and smartphones and social media. I think that there are many reasons to be concerned around technology and its influence, especially with kids. But what's missing in a lot of those conversations is a sense of empowerment about what families can reasonably do. When we focus solely on the fear, it ends up just putting caregivers in a place of feeling bad.VirginiaYou feel like you're getting it wrong all the time.AshShame isn't empowering. No one is like, “Well, I feel terrible about myself, so now I feel equipped to go make a change,” right?Empowerment is what's missing in so many of those conversations and other books and things that have come out, because it's way harder. It's so much harder to talk about what you can really do and reasonably control in a sustainable way. But I'm an educator, and I really firmly believe that if anyone's in this sort of advice type space, be it online or elsewhere, that they need to be trying to empower and help families instead of just capitalizing on fear.VirginiaWhat I found most powerful is that you really give us permission to say: What need is screen time meeting right now? And this includes caregivers' needs. So not just “what need is this meeting for my child,” but what need is this meeting for me? I am here recording with you right now because iPads are meeting the need of children have a day off school on a day when I need to work. We won't be interrupted unless I have to approve a screen time request, which I might in 20 minutes.I got divorced a couple years ago, and my kids get a lot more screen time now. Because they move back and forth between two homes, and each only has one adult in it. Giving myself permission to recognize that I have needs really got me through a lot of adjusting to this new rhythm of our family.AshAbsolutely. And when we're thinking about what the need is, we also need to know that it's going to change. So often in parenting, it feels like we have to come up with one set of rules and they have to work for everything in perpetuity without adjustment. That just sets us up for a sense of failure if we're like, well, I had this magical plan that someone told me was going to work, and it didn't. So I must be the problem, right? It all comes back to that “well, it's my fault” place.VirginiaWhich is screens as diet culture.AshAll over again. We're back at it. It's just not helpful. If instead, we're thinking about what is my need right now? Sometimes it's “I have to work.” And sometimes it's “my kid is sick and they just need to relax.” Sometimes it's, as you were alluding to earlier, it's we've all just had a day, right? We've been run ragged, and we just need a break, and that need is going to dictate very different things. If my kid is laid up on the couch and throwing up, then what screen time is going to be doing for them is very different than If I'm trying to work and I want them to be reasonably engaged in content and trying to maybe learn something. And that's fine. Being able to center “this is what I need right now,” or “this is what we need right now,” puts us in a place of feeling like we're making it work for us. Instead of feeling like we're always coming up against some rule that we're not going to quite live up to.VirginiaI'd love to talk about the inequity piece a little more too. As I said, going from a two parent household to a one parent household, which is still a highly privileged environment—but even just that small shift made me realize, wait a second. I think all the screen time guidance is just for typical American nuclear families. Ideally, with a stay at home parent.So can you talk about why so much of the standard guidance doesn't apply to most of our families?AshIt's not even just a stay at home parent. It's assuming that there is always at least one caregiver who is fully able to be present. Mom, default parent, is making dinner, and Dad is relaxing after work and is monitoring what the kids are doing, right? And it's one of those times where I'm like, have you met a family?VirginiaPeople are seven different places at once. It's just not that simple.AshIt's not that simple, right? It's like, have you spent five minutes in a typical household in the last 10 years? This is not how it's going, right?So the beginning of the book helps people unlearn and relearn what we may have heard around screens, including what research really does or doesn't say around screens, and this social inequity piece. Because especially since the onset of COVID, screens are filling in systemic gaps for the vast majority of families.I'm a family with two caregivers in the home. We both work, but we're both very present caregivers. So we're definitely kind of a rarity, that we're very privileged. We're both around a lot of the time. And we are still using screens to fill some of those gaps.So whether it's we don't really have a backyard, or people are in a neighborhood where they can't send their kids outside, or they don't have a park or a playground. They don't have other kids in the neighborhood, or it's not a safe climate. Or you live in an apartment and you can't have your neighbors complain for the fifth time that your kids are stomping around and being loud. Whatever it is—a lack of daycare, affordable after school care —those are all gaps. They all have to be filled. And we used to have different ways of filling those gaps, and they've slowly become less accessible or less available. So something has to fill them. What ends up often filling them is screens. And I'm not saying that that's necessarily a good thing. I'd rather live in a world in which everyone is having their needs met accessibly and equitably. But that's a much harder conversation, and is one that we don't have very much say in. We participate in that, and we might vote for certain people, but that's about all we can really do reasonably. So, in the meantime, we have to fill that in with something and so screens are often going to fill that in.Especially if you look at caregivers who have less privilege, who are maybe single caregivers, caregivers of color, people living in poverty—all of those aspects of scarcity impacts their bandwidth. Their capacity as a caregiver is less and spread thinner, and all of that takes away from a caregiver's ability to be present. And there were some really interesting studies that were done around just the way that having less capacity affects you as a caregiver.And when I saw that data, I thought, well, of course. Of course people are turning to screens because they have nothing else to give from. And when we think of it that way, it's hard to see that as some sort of personal failure, right? When we see it instead as, oh, this is out of necessity. It reframes the question as “How do I make screens work for me,” as opposed to, “I'm bad for using screens.”VirginiaRight. How do I use screen time to meet these needs and to hopefully build up my capacity so that I can be more present with my kids? I think people think if you're using a lot of screens, you're really never present. It's that stereotype of the parent on the playground staring at their phone, instead of watching the kid play. When maybe the reason we're at the playground is so my kid can play and I can answer some work emails. That doesn't mean I'm not present at other points of the day.AshOf course. You're seeing one moment. I always find that so frustrating. It just really feels like you you cannot win. If I were sitting there staring at my child's every move in the park, someone would be like, “you're being a helicopter,” right? And if I look at my phone because I'm trying to make the grocery pickup order—because I would rather my child have time at the playground than we spend our only free hour in the grocery store and having to manage a kid in the grocery store and not having fun together, right? Instead I'm placing a pickup order and they're getting to run around on the playground. Now also somehow I'm failing because I'm looking at my phone instead of my kid. But also, we want kids to have independent time, and not need constant input. It really feels like you just can't win sometimes. And being able to take a step back and really focus on what need is this meeting? And if it's ours, and if it is helping me be more present and connected, that's a win. When I make dinner in the evening, my kid is often having screen time, and I will put in an AirPod and listen to a podcast, often Burnt Toast, and that's my decompression. Because I come home straight from work and other things. I'm not getting much time to really decompress.VirginiaYou need that airlock time, where you can decompress and then be ready to be present at dinner.I'm sure I've told you this before, but I reported a piece on screen time for Parents Magazine, probably almost 10 years ago at this point, because I think my older child was three or four. And I interviewed this Harvard researcher, this older white man, and I gave him this the dinner time example. I said, I'm cooking dinner. My kid is watching Peppa Pig so that I can cook dinner, and take a breath. And then we eat dinner together. And he said, “Why don't you involve her in cooking dinner? Why don't you give her a bag of flour to play with while you cook dinner?”AshOf all the things!VirginiaAnd I said to him: Because it's 5pm on a Wednesday and who's coming to clean the flour off the ceiling?AshA bag of flour. Of all the things to go to! VirginiaHe was like, “kids love to make a happy mess in the kitchen!” I was like, well I don't love that. And it was just exactly that. My need didn't matter to him at all. He was like, “h, well, if you just want to pacify your children…” I was like, I do, yes, in that moment.AshWell, and I think that's another part of it is that someone says it to us like that, and we're like, “well, I can't say yes,” right? But in the moment, yeah, there are times where it's like, I need you to be quiet. And as hard as this can be to think, sometimes it's like right now, I need you to be quiet and convenient because of the situation we're in. And that doesn't mean we're constantly expecting that of them, and hopefully that's not something we're doing all the time. But if the need is, oh my God, we're all melting down, and if we don't eat in the next 15 minutes, we're going to have a two hour DEFCON1 emergency on our hands, then, yeah, I'm gonna throw Peppa Pig on so that we can all become better regulated humans in the next 15 minutes and not have a hungry meltdown. And that sounds like a much better alternative to me!VirginiaThan flour all over my kitchen on a Wednesday, right? I mean, I'll never not be mad about it. It's truly the worst parenting advice I've ever received. So thank you for giving us all more space as caregivers to be able to articulate our own needs and articulate what we need to be present. It's what we can do in the face of gaps in the care system that leave us holding so much.That said: I think there are some nitty gritty aspects of this that we all struggle wit, so I want to talk about some of the nuts and bolts pieces. One of my biggest struggles is still the question of how much time is too much time? But you argue that time really isn't the measure we should be using. As you're saying, that need is going to vary day to day, and all the guidance that's been telling us, like, 30 minutes at this age, an hour at this age, all of that is not particularly germane to our lives. So can you explain both why time is less what we should fixate on? And then how do I release myself? How do I divest from the screen time diet culture?AshOh man, I wish I had a magic bullet for that one. We'll see what I can do.When I was writing this and thinking about it and making content about it, I kept thinking about you. Because the original time guidelines that everyone speaks back to—they're from the AAP. And they have not actually been used in about 10 years, but people still bring them up all the time. The “no time under two” and “up to an hour up to age five” and “one to two hours, five to 12.” And if you really dig in, I was following footnote after footnote for a while, trying to really find where did this actually come from? It's not based on some study that found that that's the ideal amount of time. It really came from a desire to find this middle ground of time spent being physically idle. These guidelines are about wanting to avoid childhood obesity.VirginiaOf course.AshIt all comes back, right?VirginiaI should have guessed it.AshAnd so in their original recommendations, the AAP note that partially this is to encourage a balance with physical movement. Which, of course, assumes that if you are not sitting watching TV or using an iPad, that you will be playing volleyball or something.VirginiaYou'll automatically be outside running around.AshExactly, of course, those are the only options.VirginiaIt also assumes that screen time is never physical. But a lot of kids are very physical when they're watching screens.AshExactly. And it, of course, immediately also imposes a morality of one of these things is better—moving your body is always better than a screen, which is not always going to be true, right? All these things have nuance in them. But I thought that was so interesting, and it shouldn't have surprised me, and yet somehow it still did. And of course it is good to find movement that is helpful for you and to give your kids an enjoyment of being outside or moving their bodies, or playing a sport. And putting all of that in opposition to something else they may enjoy, like a screen, really quickly goes to that diet culture piece of “well, how many minutes have you been doing that?” Because now we have to offset it with however many minutes you should be running laps or whatever.So those original recommendations are coming from a place of already trying to mitigate the negatives of sitting and doing something sort of passively leisurely. And in the last 10 years, they've moved away from that, and they now recommend what's called making a family media plan. Which actually I think is way better, because it is much more prioritizing what are you using this for? Can you be doing it together? What can you do? It's much more reasonable, I think. But many people still go back to those original recommendations, because like you said, it's a number. It's simple. Just tell me.VirginiaWe love to grab onto a number and grade ourselves.AshJust tell me how much time so that I can tell myself I'm I'm doing a good job, right? But you know, time is just one piece of information. It can be so specific with what am I using that time to do? If I'm sitting on my computer and doing work for an hour and a half, technically, that is screen time, but it is going to affect me a lot differently than if I'm watching Netflix or scrolling my phone for an hour and a half. I will feel very different after those things. And I think it's really important to be aware of that, and to make our kids aware of that from an early age, so that they are thinking about more than just, oh, it's been X amount of minutes. And therefore this is okay or not okay.Because all brains and all screens are different. And so one kid can watch 20 minutes of Paw Patrol, and they're going to be bouncing off the walls, because, for whatever reason, that's just a show that's really stimulating for them. And somebody else can sit and watch an hour and a half of something, and they'll be completely fine. So if you have a kid that is the first kid, and after 20 minutes, you're like, oh my god, it's not even half an hour. This is supposed to be an okay amount. This is how they're acting. We're right back to that “something's wrong. I'm wrong. They're bad,” as opposed to, “What is this telling me? What's something we could do differently? Could we try a different show? Could we try maybe having some physical movement before or after, see if that makes a difference?” It just puts us more in a place of being curious to figure out again, how do I make this work for me? What is my need? How do I make it work for us?And not to rattle on too long, but there was a big study done in the UK, involving over 120,000 kids. And they were trying to find what they called “the Goldilocks amount of time.”VirginiaYes. This is fascinating.AshSo it's the amount of time where benefit starts to wane. Where we are in that “just right”amount. Before that, might still be okay, but after that we're going to start seeing some negative impacts, particularly when it comes to behavior, for example.What they found in general was that the Goldilocks number tended to be around, I think, an hour and 40 minutes a day. Something around an hour and a half a day. But if you looked at certain types of screens, for computers or TV, it was much higher than that. It was closer to three hours a day before you started seeing some negative impacts. And even for things like smartphones, it was over an hour a day. But what I found so so interesting, is that they looked at both statistical significance, but also what they called “minimally important difference,” which was when you would actually notice these negative changes, subjectively, as a caregiver.So this meant how much would a kid have to be on a screen for their adult at home to actually notice “this is having an impact on you,” regularly. And that amount was over four and a half hours a day on screens.VirginiaBefore caregivers were like, “Okay, this is too much!” And the fact that the statistically significant findings for the minutia of what the researchers looking at is so different from what you as a caregiver are going to actually be thrown by. That was really mind blowing to me.AshRight, And that doesn't mean that statistical significance isn't important, necessarily. But we're talking about real minutiae. And that doesn't always mean that you will notice any difference in your actual life.Of course, some people are going to hear this and go, “But I don't want my kid on a screen for four and a half hours.” Sure. That's completely reasonable. And if your kid is having a hard time after an hour, still reasonable, still important. That's why we can think less about how many minutes has it been exactly, and more, what am I noticing? Because if I'm coming back to the need and you're like, okay, I have a meeting and I need an hour, right? If you know, “I cannot have them use their iPad for an hour, because they tend to become a dysregulated mess in 25 minutes,” that's much more useful information than “Well, it says they're allowed to have an hour of screen time per day so this should be fine because it's an hour.”VirginiaRight.AshIt sets you up for more success.VirginiaAnd if you know your kid can handle that hour fine and can, in fact, handle more fine, it doesn't mean, “well you had an hour of screen time while I was in a meeting so now we can't watch a show together later to relax together.” You don't have to take away and be that granular with the math of the screens. You can be like, yeah, we needed an extra hour for this meeting, and we'll still be able to watch our show later. Because that's what I notice with my kids. If I start to try to take away from some other screen time, then it's like, “Oh, god, wait, but that's the routine I'm used to!” You can't change it, and that's fair.AshYes, absolutely. And I would feel that way too, right? If someone were giving me something extra because it was a convenience to them, but then later was like, “oh, well, I have to take that from somewhere.” But they didn't tell me that. I would be like, Excuse me, that's weird. That's not how that works, right? This was a favor to you, right?VirginiaYeah, exactly. I didn't interrupt your meeting. You're welcome, Mom.Where the time anxiety does tend to kick in, though, is that so often it's hard for kids to transition off screens. So then parents think, “Well, it was too much time,” or, “The screen is bad.” This is another very powerful reframing in your work. So walk us through why just because a kid is having a hard time getting off screens doesn't mean it was too much and it doesn't mean that screens are evil? AshSo an example I use many times that you can tweak to be whatever thing would come up for your kid is bath time. I think especially when kids are in that sort of toddler, three, four age. When my kid was that age, we had a phase where transitioning to and from the bathtub was very hard. Getting into it was hard. But then getting out of it was hard.VirginiaThey don't ever want to get in. And then they never want to leave.AshThey never want to get out, right? And in those moments when my kid was really struggling to get out of the bathtub, imagine how it would sound if I was like, “Well, it it's the bathtub's fault.” Like it's the bath's fault that they are having such a hard time, it's because of the bubbles, and it smells too good, and I've made it too appealing and the water's too warm. Like, I mean, I sound unhinged, right?Virginia“We're going to stop bathing you.”AshExactly. We would not say, “Well, we can't have baths anymore.” Or when we go to the fun playground, and it's really hard to leave the fun playground, we don't blame the playground. When we're in the grocery store and they don't want to leave whichever aisle, we don't blame the grocery store. And we also don't stop taking them to the grocery store. We don't stop going to playgrounds. We don't stop having baths. Instead, we make different decisions, right? We try different things. We start a timer. We have a different transition. We talk about it beforehand. We strategize, we try things.VirginiaGive a “Hey, we're leaving in a few minutes!” so they're not caught off guard.AshExactly. We talk about it. Hey, last time it was really hard to leave here, we kind of let them know ahead of time, or we race them to the car. We find some way to make it more fun, to make the transition easier, right? We get creative, because we know that, hey, they're going to have to leave the grocery store. They're going to have to take baths in a reasonable amount of time as they grow up into their lives. We recognize the skill that's happening underneath it.And I think with screens, we don't always see those underlying skills, because we see it as this sort of superfluous thing, right? It's not needed. It's not necessary. Well, neither is going to a playground, technically.A lot of what we do is not technically required, but the skill underneath is still there. So when they are struggling with ending screen time, is it really the screen, or is it that it's hard to stop doing something fun. It's hard to stop in the middle of something. It's hard to stop if you have been playing for 20 minutes and you've lost every single race and you don't want to stop when you've just felt like you've lost over and over again, right? You want one more shot to one more shot, right?People are going to think, “Well, but screens are so much different than those other things.” Yes, a screen is designed differently than a playground or a bath. But we are going to have kids who are navigating a technological and digital world that we are struggle to even imagine, right? We're seeing glimpses of it, but it's going to be different than what we're experiencing now, and we want our kids to be able to navigate that with success. And that comes back to seeing the skills underneath. So when they're struggling with something like that, taking the screen out of it, and asking yourself, how would I handle this if it were anything else. How would I handle this if it were they're struggling to leave a friend's house? I probably wouldn't blame the friend, and I wouldn't blame their house, and I wouldn't blame their boys.VirginiaWe're never seeing that child again! Ash I would validate and I would tell them, it's hard. And I would still tell them “we're ending,” and we would talk about strategies to make it easier next time. And we would get curious and try something, and we would be showing our kids that, “hey, it's it's okay to have a hard time doing that thing. It's okay to have feelings about it. And we're still gonna do it. We're still going to end that thing.”Most of the time, the things that we are struggling with when it comes to screens actually boil down to one of three things, I call them the ABCs. It's either Access, which could be time, or when they're having it, or how much. Behavior, which you're kind of bringing up here. And Content, what's on the screen, what they're playing, what they what they have access to.And so sometimes we might think that the problem we're seeing in front of us is a behavior problem, right? I told them to put the screen away. They're not putting the screen away. That's a behavior problem. But sometimes it actually could be because it's an access issue, right? It's more time than they can really handle at that given moment. Or it could be content, because it's content that makes it harder to start and stop. So a big part of the book is really figuring out, how do I know what problem I'm even really dealing with here? And then what are some potential things that I can do about it? To try to problem solve, try to make changes and see if this helps, and if it helps, great, keep it. And if not, I can get curious and try something else. And so a lot of it is strategies to try and ways to kind of, you know, backwards engineer what might be going on, to figure out how to make it work for you, how to make it better.VirginiaIt's so helpful to feel like, okay, there's always one more thing I can tweak and adjust. Versus “it's all a failure. We have to throw it out.” That kind of all or nothing thinking that really is never productive. The reason I think it's so helpful that you draw that parallel with the bath or the play date is it reminds us that there are some kids for whom transitions are just always very difficult—like across the board. So you're not just seeing a screen time problem. You're being reminded “My kid is really building skills around transitions. We don't have them yet.” We hope we will have them at some point. But this is actually an opportunity to work on that, as opposed to a problem. We can actually practice some of these transition skills.AshAnd I really like coming back to the skill, because if we're thinking of it as a skill, then we're probably more likely to tell our kids that it's a skill, too. Because if we're just thinking of it as like, well, it's a screen. It's the screen's fault, it's the screen's fault. Then we might not say those literal words to our kids, but we might say, like, it's always so hard to turn off the TV. Why is that, right? We're talking about it as if it's this sort of amorphous, like it's only about the television, or it's only about the iPad, and we're missing the part of making it clear to our kids that, hey, this is a skill that you're working on, and we work on this skill in different ways.VirginiaI did some good repair with my kids after reading your book. Because I was definitely falling into the trap of talking about screen addiction. I thought I was saying to them, “It's not your fault. The screens are programmed to be bad for us in this way” So I thought, I was like at least not blaming them, but being like, we need less screens because they're so dangerous.But then I read your book, and I was like, oh, that's not helpful either. And I did have one of my kids saying, “Am I bad because I want to watch screens all the time?” And I was like, oh, that's too concrete and scary.And again, to draw the parallel with diet culture: It's just like telling kids sugar is bad, and then they think they're bad because they like sugar. So I did do some repair. I was like, “I read this book and now I've learned that that was not right.” They were like, oh, okay. We're healing in my house from that, so thank you.AshOh, you're very welcome, and I'm glad to hear that!I think about those parallels with food all the time, because sometimes it just helps me think, like, wait, would I be wanting to send this message about food or exercise or whatever? And if the answer is no, then how can I tweak it so that I'm sending a message I'd be okay with applying to other things. And I like being able to make those parallels with my kid. In my household right now, we're practicing flexibility. Flexibility is a skill that we're working on in so many parts of our lives. And when I say we, I do mean we. Me, everybody is working on this.VirginiaParents can use more flexibility, for sure.AshAbsolutely. And so like, when those moments are coming up, you know, I'm trying to say, like, hey, like, what skill is this right now? Who's having to be flexible right now? Flexible can be a good thing, right? We might be flexible by saying yes to eating dinner on the couch and watching a TV show. That's flexibility. Flexibility isn't just adjust your plans to be more convenient to me, child, so that I can go do something as an adult. And coming back to those skills so they can see, oh, okay, this isn't actually just about screens. This applies to every part of these of my life, or these different parts of my life, and if I'm working on it here, oh, wow, it feels easier over there. And so they can see that this applies throughout their life, and kind of feel more of that buy in of like, oh, I'm getting better at that. Or that was easier. That was harder. We want them to see that across the board.VirginiaOh, my God, absolutely.Let's talk about screens and neurodivergence a little bit. So one of my kiddos is neurodivergent, and I can both see how screens are wonderful for them at the end of a school day, when they come home and they're really depleted. Screen time is the thing they need to rest and regulate. And they love the world building games, which gives them this whole world to control and explore. And there's so much there that's wonderful.And, they definitely struggle more than their sibling with this transition piece, with getting off it. One kid will naturally put down the iPad at some point and go outside for a bit, and this kid will not. And it creates more anxiety for parents. Because neurodivergent kids may both need screens—in ways that maybe we're not totally comfortable with, but need to get comfortable with—and then struggle with the transition piece. So how do you think about this question differently with neurodivergence? Or or is it really the same thing you're just having to drill in differently?AshI think it is ultimately the same thing, but it certainly is going to feel quite more heightened. And I think especially for certain aspects of neurodivergence, especially, I think it feels really heightened because of some of the ways that they might be discussed, particularly online, when it comes to how they relate to technology. I think about ADHD, we'll see that a lot. Where I'll see many things online about, like, “kids with ADHD should never be on a screen. They should never be on a device, because they are so dopamine-seeking.” And I have to just say that I find that to be such an ableist framing. Because with ADHD, we're talking about a dopamine deficient brain. And I don't think that we would be having that same conversation about someone needing insulin, right? Like, we wouldn't be saying, like, oh yeah, nope, they can't take that insulin. VirginiaThey're just craving that insulin they need to stay alive.AshA kid seeking a thing that they're that they are somehow deficient in—that's not some sort of defiant behavior. VirginiaNo, it's a pretty adaptive strategy.AshAbsolutely, it is. And we want kids to know that nobody's brain is good or bad, right? There's not a good brain or a bad brain. There are all brains are going to have things that are easier or harder. And it's about learning the brain that you're in, and what works or doesn't work for the brain that you're in.And all brains are different, right? Neurotypical brains and neurodivergent brains within those categories are obviously going to be vastly different. What works for one won't work for another, and being able to figure out what works for them, instead of just, “because you have this kind of brain, you shouldn't ever do this thing,” that's going to set them up for more success. And I think it's great that you mentioned both how a screen can be so regulating, particularly for neurodivergent brains, and then the double-edged sword of that is that then you have to stop. VirginiaTransition off back into the world.AshSo if the pain point is a transition, what is it really coming from? Is it coming from the executive function piece of “I don't know how to find a place to stop?” A lot of people, particularly kids ADHD, they often like games that are more open-ended. So they might like something like a Minecraft or an Animal Crossing or the Sims where you can hyperfocus and deep dive into something. But what's difficult about that is that, you know, if I play Mario Kart, the level ends, it's a very obvious ending.VirginiaRight? And you can say, “One more level, and we're done.”AshExactly. We've reached the end of the championship. I'm on the podium. I quit now, right?But there's a never ending series of of tasks with a more open-ended game. And especially if I'm in my hyper focus zone, right? I can just be thinking, like, well, then I can do this and this and this and this and this, right?And I'm adding on to my list, and the last thing I want to do in that moment is get pulled out of it when I'm really feeling like I'm in the zone. So if that's the kind of transition that's difficult. And it's much less about games and more about “how do I stop in the middle of a project?” Because that's essentially what that is.And that would apply if I'm at school and I'm in the middle of an essay and we're finishing it up tomorrow. Or I'm trying to decorate a cake, and we're trying to walk out the door and I have to stop what I'm doing and come back later. So one of the tricks that I have found really helpful is to ask the question of, “How will you know when you're done?” Or how will you know you're at a stopping point? What would a stopping point be today? And getting them to sort of even visualize it, or say it out loud, so that they can think about, “Oh, here's how I basically break down a giant task into smaller pieces,” because that's essentially what that is.VirginiaThat's a great tip. Ash“Okay, you have five minutes. What is the last thing you're going to do today?” Because then it's concrete in terms of, like, I'm not asking the last thing, and it will take you half an hour, right? I'm at, we have five minutes. What's the last thing you're wrapping up? What are you going to do?Then, if it's someone who's very focused in this world, and they're very into that world, then that last thing can also be our transition out of it. As they're turning it off, the very first thing we're saying to them is, “So what was that last thing you were doing?”VirginiaOh, that's nice.AshThen they're telling it to us, and then we can get curious. We can ask questions. We can get a little into their world to help them transition out of that world. That doesn't mean that we have to understand what they're telling us, frankly. It doesn't mean we have to know all the nuance. But we can show that interest. I think this is also really, really important, because then we are showing them it's not us versus the screen. We're not opposing the screen, like it's the enemy or something. And we're showing them, “Hey, I can tell you're interested in this, so I'm interested in it because you are.” Like, I care about you, so I want to know more.VirginiaAnd then they can invite you into their world, which what a lot of neurodivergent kids need. We're asking them to be part of the larger world all the time. And how nice we can meet them where they are a little more.AshAbsolutely. The other thing I would say is that something I think people don't always realize, especially if they don't play games as much, or if they are not neurodivergent and playing games, is they might miss that video games actually are extremely well-accommodated worlds, in terms of accommodating neurodivergence.So thinking about something like ADHD, to go back to that example, it's like, okay, some really common classroom accommodations for ADHD, from the educator perspective, the accommodations I see a lot are frequent check ins, having a checklist, breaking down a large task into smaller chunks, objectives, having a visual organizer.Well, I think about a video game, and it's like, okay, if I want to know what I have available to me, I can press the pause menu and see my inventory at any time. If I want to know what I should be doing, because I have forgotten, I can look at a menu and see, like, what's my objective right now? Or I can bring up the map and it will show me where I supposed to be going. If I start to deviate from what I'm supposed to be doing, the game will often be like, “Hey, don't forget, you're supposed to be going over there!” It'll get me back on task. If I'm trying to make a potion that has eight ingredients, the game will list them all out for me, and it will check them off as I go, so I can visually see how I'm how I'm achieving this task. It does a lot of that accommodation for me. And those accommodations are not as common in the real world, or at least not as easily achieved.And so a lot of neurodivergent kids will succeed easily in these game worlds. And we might think “oh because it's addicting, or the algorithm, or it's just because they love it” But there are often these structural design differences that actually make it more accessible to them.And if we notice, oh, wow, they have no problem knowing what to do when they're playing Zelda, because they just keep checking their objective list all the time or whatever—that's great information.VirginiaAnd helps us think, how can we do that in real life? AshExactly. We can go to them and say, hey, I noticed you, you seem to check your inventory a lot when you're playing that game. How do we make it so that when you look in your closet, you can just as easily see what shirts you own. Whatever the thing may be, so that we're showing them, “hey, bring that into the rest of your world that works for you here.” Let's make it work for you elsewhere, instead of thinking of it as a reason they're obsessed with screens, and now we resent the screens for that. Bring that in so that it can benefit the rest of their lives.VirginiaI'm now like, okay, that just reframes something else very important for me. You have such a helpful way of helping us divest from the guilt and the shame and actually look at this in a positive and empowering way for us and our kids. And I'm just so grateful for it. It really is a game changer for me.AshOh, thank you so much. I'm so glad to hear that it was helpful and empowering for you, and I just hope that it can be that for others as well.ButterAshSo my family and I have been lucky enough to spend quite a lot of time in Japan. And one of the wonderful things about Japan is they have a very huge bike culture. I think people think of the Netherlands as Bike cCentral, but Japan kind of rivals them.And they have a particular kind of bike that you cannot get in the United States. It's called a Mamachari, which is like a portmanteau of mom and chariot. And it's sort of like a cargo bike, but they are constructed a little differently and have some features that I love. And so when I've been in Japan, we are on those bikes. I'm always like, I love this kind of bike. I want this kind of bike for me forever. And my recent Butter has been trying to find something like that that I can have in my day to day life. And I found something recently, and got a lovely step through bike on Facebook Marketplace. VirginiaSo cool! That's exciting to find on marketplace, too.AshOh yes, having a bike that like I actually enjoy riding, I had my old bike from being a teenager, and it just was not functional. I was like, “This is not fun.” And now having one that I enjoy, I'm like, oh yes. I feel like a kid again. It's lovely.VirginiaThat's a great Butter. My Butter is something both my kids and my pets and I are all really enjoying. I'm gonna drop a link in the chat for you. It is called a floof, and it is basically a human-sized dog bed that I found on Etsy. It's like, lined with fake fur.AshMy God. I'm looking at it right now.VirginiaIsn't it hilarious?AshWow. I'm so glad you sent a picture, because that is not what I was picturing?Virginia I can't describe it accurately. It's like a cross between a human-sized dog bed and a shopping bag? Sort of? AshYes, yes, wow. It's like a hot tub.VirginiaIt's like a hot tub, but no water. You just sit in it. I think they call it a cuddle cave. I don't understand how to explain it, but it's the floof. And it's in our family room. And it's not inexpensive, but it does basically replace a chair. So if you think of it as a furniture purchase, it's not so bad. There's always at least a cat or a dog sleeping in it. Frequently a child is in it. My boyfriend likes to be in it. Everyone gravitates towards it. And you can put pillows in it or a blanket.Neurodivergent people, in particular, really love it, because I think it provides a lot of sensory feedback? And it's very enclosed and cozy. It's great for the day we're having today, which is a very laid back, low demand, watch as much screen as you want, kind of day. So I've got one kid bundled into the floof right now with a bunch of blankets in her iPad, and she's so happy. AshOh my gosh. Also, it kind of looks like the person is sitting in a giant pita, which I also love.VirginiaThat's what it is! It's like a giant pita, but soft and cozy. It's like being in a pita pocket. And I'm sure there are less expensive versions, this was like, 300 something dollars, so it is an investment. But they're handmade by some delightful person in the Netherlands.Whenever we have play dates, there are always two or three kids, snuggled up in it together. There's something extremely addictive about it. I don't know. I don't really know how to explain why it's great, but it's great.AshOh, that is lovely.VirginiaAll right, well tell obviously, everyone needs to go to their bookstore and get Power On: Managing Screen Time to Benefit the Whole Family. Where else can we find you, Ash? How can we support your work?AshYou can find me on Instagram at the gamer educator, and I also cross post my Instagram posts to Substack, and I'm on Substack as Screen Time Strategies. It's all the same content, just that way you're getting it in your inbox without, without having to go to Instagram. So if that's something that you are trying to maybe move away from, get it via Substack. And my book Power On: Managing Screen Time to Benefit the Whole Family is available starting August 26 is when it fully releases.VirginiaAmazing. Thank you so much. This was really great.AshThank you so much for having me back.The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow me on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, and Big Undies.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Farideh.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiasolesmith.substack.com/subscribe

Anthony Benenati, founder of City Yoga and That's Not Yoga®, shares his personal evolution from his earliest experiences with yoga to developing a practice that meets each individual where they are. In this conversation, he explores breaking limiting ideas about yoga, uncovering its deeper meaning, and building genuine human connection through mindful movement. He also reflects on how curiosity, learning, and purposeful steps can lead to lasting change. This is a conversation about healing, empowerment, and finding a practice that truly serves you. If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:Anthony's journey into yoga and the pivotal moments that shaped his path.Breaking common stereotypes and misconceptions about yoga.Understanding the true purpose of yoga beyond the poses.How yoga fosters authentic community and connection.The power of desire, knowledge, and action in creating transformation.Episode References/Links:Anthony Benenati's Website - https://thatsnotyoga.comAnthony Benenati's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotyoga Tiny Habits: The Small Changes That Change Everything by BJ Fogg - https://a.co/d/3edLCLcGuest Bio:Anthony Benenati is the founder of City Yoga, The first Anusara yoga studio in California and That's Not Yoga® , a culmination of three decades of study and practice in the Hatha Yoga tradition. Anthony's philosophy is simple; fit the yoga to the student, not the student to the yoga. He believes that it isn't about the style of yoga you practice, rather, the effectiveness of that style for your body. Yoga practice should help you transform, not cause more suffering. Anthony draws from a deep knowledge of the different classical styles of modern yoga and other modalities to construct a path of healing and transformation for their student. Anthony has trained in Kundalini, Ashtanga, Iyengar, Anusara and Viniyoga. He specializes in Yoga Therapeutics and tailors the practice so your body uses its natural movements to heal itself from pain and suffering. He has taught globally and has trained thousands of students. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/ Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Anthony Benenati 0:00  One of the misconceptions about yoga is that anything goes, right, and that is so far from the truth. If yoga is about anything, it's about setting meaningful boundaries.Lesley Logan 0:12  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Lesley Logan 0:51  All right, Be It babe. I am so stoked for you to hear today's interview. Our guest today is actually a dear friend of Brad and mine, and he is a person we have quoted on the podcast before, and he's someone we said, we have to get him on the pod. And guess what? We did it. And also, I can't believe this is the first time he's on the pod. I feel like he'll be a regular conversation, because it's just really fun to hear him share his perspective, and he is an amazing yoga teacher. And this is as much of a yoga podcast as it's not a yoga podcast episode, because we talk a lot about what really is yoga, and what does it mean to have a yoga practice, and what is it trying to teach us? And if you think you know what yoga is I'm gonna challenge you to listen, because I think it's really easy for us to have been fed something that it's not and then not realize, like, the amazing benefits that it has. And so I'm not gonna say anymore, because this episode is just one of my favorite it's gonna go hands down and one I'll quote in the future. And I knew that when I brought him on, I just knew that we would have an amazing conversation, and this is hopefully going to entertain, educate and inspire you. So here is Anthony Benenati. Lesley Logan 2:09  All right, Be It babe, I'm really excited. This person is actually a dear friend, like I know I've said that about some guests, but usually they're a dear friend of like, a couple moments. This person I've known for like, 10 years, and Brad has known him much longer, he's been a regular in our lives. Anthony Benenati, you are one of the best yoga teachers I know, but also so much more than that. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you rock at? Anthony Benenati 2:33  Well, first of all, thank you for having me on. What an honor. Who am I? Anthony Benenati, you said my name. I am, believe it or not, a yoga teacher, a professional yoga teacher. I've been doing this for 32 years now, which, when I tell people that I teach yoga, they they have immediate this vision of what that might be. Lesley Logan 2:56  Yes, you should be in white. Anthony Benenati 2:59  I should be in white or. Lesley Logan 3:02  With a glow. Anthony Benenati 3:04  It's not very serious or, right? Everybody has their assumptions of what yoga is, which, my job is to help educate and instruct on what the practice truly is versus what it has become. The practice that sort of everybody knows now, versus really, what it truly is and what its goal is.Lesley Logan 3:29  Yeah, I feel like we could also, like, talk about that for hours, because I had someone send me a reel of a guy on a Reformer with a, like, stationary bike in his hands and feet. And it was a joke. It was like an April Fool's joke. And he was like, okay, guys like, this class, we get cardio and core and like, he's holding the bike, he's it's obviously a joke. But like someone sent it to me, and I'm like, the fact that this is so hilarious that people who've never done Pilates before are sending this to me, tells me that what people think Pilates is has strayed far from what Pilates is. So I feel like I can understand that. And I find myself constantly educating people a little bit like, well, that yes, those are Pilates exercises and so, but it's not the inherent reality of it is. And so I feel like I understand that plight, that that journey you're on, in a little bit. Anthony Benenati 4:18  You and I have had this conversation many times before, because you're so close to the source of it, and and that's what I love about what you do, what you teach, and where I am, and what I teach, is that there's a lineage, and you're very close to the source, and the closer you are to the source, the more authentic the teaching, the further down the line you get disconnected from that core source. Then everything starts to get watered down and miscommunicated. Lots of stuff gets forgotten. Lesley Logan 4:55  Yeah, well, it's like the game of telephone, like, I mean, like when you play that game in school, like, you, the further it goes down the line. Anthony Benenati 5:03  The more warped it gets. Lesley Logan 5:04  Yes, yes. And it's funny, but also, like, that is the reality. Can we take a step back? Because, like, a yoga instructor of 32 years, that is a long time. And I think, like, there's not many of you. I mean, there's many of you, probably in India places, but like, there's not many of people who've had that many decades and and have studied the way that you have like, did you grow up like doing yoga? Did you want to be a yoga teacher?Anthony Benenati 5:32  No, this story is, is pretty remarkable. No, I did not grow up with yoga. In fact, I didn't really understand what yoga was until I was literally introduced to it after I moved here to L.A. So I've been in L.A. since 1991 before that, I was in the military. I was in the Air Force. And when I was in the Air Force, I was a competitive power lifter, and I played sports all my life. So my body was pretty wrecked in my 20s. I had a shoulder surgery and a knee surgery already, and I remember I was waiting tables, and I had met this girl, and I was taken by the way she sort of carried herself. She was she walked very upright, almost Royal. And I thought, you know, it's L.A., everyone's moving to LA to become an actress. And I thought, okay, this girl, right, she's like telling her family, I don't want your money, I'm moving to L.A. and I'm going to be an actress. So I asked her, and she laughed in my face, and she lifted up the back of her shirt, and she showed me a 13-inch scar on her spine. And she told me that when she was young, she had this incredible S curve in her back, and she was in a full body cast from her neck all the way down through her torso. And I said, oh, my God, that that sounds painful. And I said how do you move? You can't, I haven't seen you bend. She goes, I can't. The only thing I can bend is my hips. I can turn my hips, but I cannot bend my back. I said, well, what do you do for relief? And she said, I do yoga. And I was like, Well, explain what's that and how does that help you? And she said, I'd love to explain it, but I don't think I can. Why don't you just come to a class? So I did, and you know, me then, I was really big. I had all this muscle mass, right? And I went to my first class, and I could not finish, could not finish the class. It kicked my butt. And I was so, my ego got, got triggered. And one of the things that's important for me as a teacher now when I teach my students is that there is, yoga doesn't see things in good and bad. Yoga see thing, sees things in does it work or not? And at the time, ego served me, because it made me go back, and it made me go back and it made me go back. At the time, the reasons because I think I was going to get it, and that's fine for whatever, for whatever reason someone enters into the practice is fine, you're there. That's the important part. We can work on the why and the why always evolves as you get along through the practice. But for me, I tell people, ego brought me to yoga and it it kept me there.Lesley Logan 8:34  Yeah, I think, isn't it interesting, like, because I'll have I work with teachers, and they're like, oh, I don't want to work with people who want to lose weight. And I'm like, I, you don't have to promise them anything you can't do. But if, if that brought them into the space, I would much rather you a non like someone who's not going to manipulate or use them or lie to them to be the safe landing for them to find a movement practice that can help them love the body that they have, you know? So I'm not here to be I won't take you if you want to lose weight. I'll just say, here's the science of weight loss, here's how I can fit in and and here's how I don't, you know, but this is what we can do together and like building that trust. And if that's what brought them in, and that's what got them to keep coming at the beginning, but then they stay coming because of how it makes them feel, and then they become a person who doesn't worry about that, because they actually care more about how they feel than how that what the scale says. Like, to me, that's kind of like that same thing. Like, I think too often people are wanting to turn away that negative energy, that negative energy in air quotes, because that's not what something is. But really it's like, you can't just, you don't, we don't get to decide how people come to us. Anthony Benenati 9:48  Right. Lesley Logan 9:49  All we can do is like, kind of be a space for them to evolve and learn the what, what, what they wanted, what they're here, what we can teach them. Anthony Benenati 9:57  Yeah, I'm glad that you said that. I'm glad that you said that to create the space, because that's exactly what it is, isn't it? It's like we want to create a safe space for them to explore them, and not come in with this bunch of judgment that I'm putting on to them so that they feel uncomfortable. I want them to feel as comfortable as they can. Starting anything new is difficult. We all know that. Let's not make it harder. Lesley Logan 10:22  Yeah, yeah. I also like that you said there's like, there's not bad or good.Anthony Benenati 10:28  That's a radical, that's a radical idea for people. In the West, we are programmed this is good and this is bad. I can even hear, you probably hear this in your students' languages too. Oh, that's my bad side, or I have a bad leg, or I have a bad shoulder. And I'm careful with that, careful with the languaging. It's not bad. It may be injured, it may be weaker, it may be tighter, but that doesn't mean it's bad.Lesley Logan 10:55  Yeah. And I, well, I, there was a years ago, like years ago. I can remember where I was driving, but I can't remember the name of the podcast, I was in traffic on San Vicente trying to get to Wilson Boulevard, and I was listening this podcast, and they talked about how, like, we have to be mindful of how we talk about our body, because our body is listening. And they have done studies that, if you like, say, I gained weight, I'm someone who can't lose weight, like, I I'm fat. All this your bod, those people who say that they actually have seen that they produce fat cells, like, that's what they do, right? Versus like, they also, like, told people, like, oh, you had this knee surgery. And the person goes, oh, I had knee surgery, so my knee is better. They didn't have knee surgery. They literally didn't give it to them. They just pretended they put them under they had controls, don't worry there's other things, but. Anthony Benenati 11:42  The placebo effect. Lesley Logan 11:44  What you tell your body like really does matter and and I studied with BJ Fogg, who's the found who wrote Tiny Habits, and he's really the leading scientist on habits that everybody has been stealing from and, not stealing, it's the wrong word, they probably study with them, but at any rate, he said there's no such thing as a bad or good habit. Everything serves you. Every like the habits you don't like about yourself, if you don't like that you scroll on the internet. If you don't like that you binge-watch NetFlix that they'll all the habits we have serve us, they provide something because your brain actually doesn't want to be around anything that causes judgment or shame. So it, it's seeking, like, oh, like, maybe it's comfortable for you to it's soothing to just binge out and watch something you get you get to avoid the other thoughts you have, or with certainty, which we all are looking for and and so he said, If you so, you can't ever say I have a bad habit or I don't want to have good habits. They're just all habits. And then there might be habits you prefer and habits you'd like to get rid of. Anthony Benenati 12:42  Right. I think in the context of the yoga conversation, yoga would simply ask, do your habits serve you? And that's another way to say it, right, whether it's good or bad, is it serving you? Lesley Logan 12:54  Yes. Anthony Benenati 12:55  So maybe at the end of the night, you've had a really shitty night and you need a drink, and most people would go, oh, my God, you teach yoga. You don't drink, right? There's another stereotype. Lesley Logan 13:06  Yeah. Anthony Benenati 13:07  But does that drink serve you in that moment? Is it going to control you? Is it going to take over? No. May it take the edge off and allow you to process the things that you're going through? Sure. Are there other ways to process it? Yes. But not everybody can just be like, you know what, I'm super stressed, and I'm just going to sit and meditate. That's not that's not realistic. Lesley Logan 13:30  Yeah, yeah. Anthony Benenati 13:31  It's not realistic for somebody, you have to meet people where they are, yeah, yeah, and make the changes gradually. Lesley Logan 13:38  Well, I mean, do you have to meet yourself where you are? Anthony Benenati 13:41  Well, yes. True.Lesley Logan 13:44  That's a bigger, that's so huge. I just, you just mentioned something I thought it would be really good timing, like, since there is the stereotype of what yoga is, especially in the West, especially in big cities, oh, actually, even now, because the way things work in rural areas. It's just franchises so like so, what is yoga really?Anthony Benenati 14:08  Okay. How long is this podcast?Lesley Logan 14:11  We can have you back for another. We can split it up. Anthony Benenati 14:13  Part two. On its most basic level, yoga is a practice. It's been, well, the iteration that we know as yoga today has only been around a couple of 100 years prior to that, prior to the last 5000 years with yoga, yoga has been a ritual, a path, a practice to transcend the known or the physical, to transcend it to, instead of saying I am my body, yogis back then would say, I am not my body. And then they would use the practice to try and extricate themselves from their body. So, a free soul, you can think of it that way, the soul that inhabits me is limited by this physical boundary, and I'm going to use the yoga practice to liberate myself from this physical, literally, prison, is how they thought of it. But things evolved, and as things do over hundreds and thousands of years, consciousness changes, and societies evolve, and mindsets change, and even language changes. So yoga now has become a physical practice to help the body and the mind connect. So there's a saying that if you keep the body to cool the mind, most people, they start thinking a lot when they stop doing. And that's why a lot of people are just doing all the time, do, do, do, do, do, and there's no room for thinking. And then when they stop doing, all of these thoughts start coming up, and they don't know how to deal with them, so they just start doing again. Which is, I guess, a way of pushing things down so that you don't have to deal with it. Lesley Logan 16:05  Yeah, yeah. Anthony Benenati 16:06  Yoga gives us a invitation to try something else. Iit's a, it's an invitation to be like, how does my body work? And how does it work better? And not for the sake of the practice itself, but how is it going to help my life? Even if you do yoga every day, let's just say you do 30 minutes of yoga every day. There's 23 and a half other hours. What else are you going to do? Hopefully your yoga practice is serving that.Lesley Logan 16:37  Yeah, yeah. 30 minutes everyone is 2% of your day. If you want to do the math, it's 2% so if you can't give 2% of yourself to something that helps you become better, the other 98% like, I love that. I love the way that you described it. I think that it's really true. And I think it kind of like takes it away. Because I think people get caught up in the process of yoga, the poses, or the styles, and that's just all process which no one really, like, in the world of marketing guys, sells nothing. No one cares about the process. They care about the transformation, the the idea of like, you know, you said, like, breaking free of this limiting thing that would be like the thing, the promise. Let's go back. You, we kind of got, you got the ego kept you going to yoga. Why did you, like, did you know you wanted to be a teacher? Like, did you, I, because I had the same thing. I went to Pilates kicking and screaming, to be completely honest, and I thought it was a bullshit infomercial workout. And then I loved it, and then I kept going back, because I felt really good. And it wasn't till someone said I should be a teacher that I even thought about being a teacher. So how did you become a teacher? I mean, like, 32 years, take us back.Anthony Benenati 17:46  That's exactly, that's exactly, right, it was my teacher at the time that had told me. He told me after class. Now this was, you know, maybe a year, year and a half into starting with him. But he said, you know, because we've had multiple conversations, not just in the classroom but outside, we'd go and have tea or whatever. And he goes, have you ever thought about teaching yoga? And I said, absolutely not. I mean, why would I? Why would I do that? I barely know the practice. He says, I understand that, and I can get you more information, but I see something in you that I think will help other people. And I think what he saw, and after teaching a whole bunch of teacher trainees myself, the most effectual teacher is someone who understands how people get to the practice. And what I mean by that is if, for instance, if I grew up in the yoga tradition and my parents were teachers, and I had been doing yoga all my life, and I never really understood the struggle of a tight body, of not being able to do the poses, of not understanding the language, of having no connection to yoga, whatsoever. Then I couldn't offer that to anybody else coming into the practice, because I would, I, some of the teachers that I train who are super flexible, for instance, they never understand what it's like not to be so it's hard to have empathy for the student that is having a very difficult time doing the most basic movement. And I think empathy is such an important factor to be a great teacher, you have to be able to put yourself in their shoes. Lesley Logan 17:47  Yeah, yeah. Anthony Benenati 17:47  Or barefoot as it, in the yoga studio.Lesley Logan 17:47  Yeah, yeah. I agree. Like, I think, I think, you know, I used to be embarrassed by, like, how I thought so negatively about Pilates, and when I realized it was actually probably the way that made people trust to even try it out, like, I also thought it was bullshit. So, you know, I got it. And then the other thing, like, I do have one of those hypermobile bodies, but I fractured my tibial plateau right before I met and I remember, like, all this fear about, like, what that meant for my Pilates practice, what that meant for my weight training, my running, everything right? Was like, fear going on. And then I also realized in my own healing, how easy I was giving it to people with knee surgeries. Because I was just like, okay, like, don't move this in time thing and so I have an injury, I was like, oh, there's actually a lot of things they can do. There's like, so much like, and there's also so much they can't do, but like, you know, like, we don't have to, like, push them, but at the same token, like, we can challenge this body because it got injured for a reason. There was an imbalance, and that's why that happened.Anthony Benenati 18:11  Correct, correct. And we're here to address that imbalance, right? A lot of times, yoga is translated as union, which is a very simple, and it's not a direct translation. The root word of yoga is actually thousands of years old, and it's yuj, Y-U-J and it means to yoke. Now this is an old fashioned term. You know the yoke when they used to yoke the horse to the cart or the ox to the cart. Lesley Logan 21:02  I'm nodding, because I did do the Oregon Trail, and that is where I learned yoga. Anthony Benenati 21:06  Okay, there you go. So that's the image that I want people to have here, and it's very important, because what you have, so yoga, at that point, becomes an action. It's a verb. It's not just a noun. What is it? But what is it doing? It's joining. But what is it joining? It's joining two different things, right? The cart and the horse. Now, alone, these two things serve purposes, don't they? But if you connect them, then you can do incredible things that neither one of these things could do by themselves. So in the yoga practice, we say one and one never equals two. It always equals three, because there's you, there's the thing, and then there's the thing you guys are creating. So it's you and Brad as individuals, and it's your marriage, which is a living entity. And it has a life of its own. And if you don't feed and nourish that third thing, not only will it die, but then you're broken apart again.Lesley Logan 22:15  Yeah. Yeah. You should become a counselor as well.Anthony Benenati 22:18  What do you think after class is about? When people feel comfortable with you, they come after class and then they start telling you about deeper issues, right, things that not the body, but the why, the why that they're here. Why are they struggling? Why are they having a hard time? I was actually listening to one of your previous podcast this morning, as we were taking me and my wife were taking a walk, Ashley, around the lake here, and we were listening, and it was the client, or the person you had on that had stage four cancer. Lesley Logan 22:54  Oh, yeah. Anthony Benenati 22:55  And I remember you said something, and it was very astute. You said that. Well, you didn't know how many, and I looked it up, we have about 60,000 thoughts a day, and you said about 95% of them are negative, right? And it's true. It's like we have these same repetitive thoughts all throughout the day, and the majority of them, the vast majority of them, are negative or repeat from the day before and the day before and the day before. And at what point do you start addressing this and start changing the narrative? Yoga is the invitation to start learning that you can that there is an issue first and then the tools to change them. Lesley Logan 23:43  Yeah.Anthony Benenati 23:45  So I love yoga as a verb, as an action, not just a thing like we can name it, and you can't just name it and make it yo. You can't just put goats in the room and call it yoga. It's not. Lesley Logan 24:01  Yeah, I'm with you on that. I mean, like, because it's cute everyone and so don't at me. It is adorable, and if it gets people in, sure, but also, like, you're now paying attention to the goat, not you, which is like, another distraction that, you know, I think, like, I think, I think it's really easy, people want to distract themselves from all that's going on. Like, first of all, you've been a teacher since the 90s, so in L.A., which means use your studio was around during lots of things. Like, you know, I don't, I don't remember when, like, the riots were, if your studio is open, but then there was, like, 911 and. Anthony Benenati 24:46  The riots werre '92 so it was just after I got here, so I opened the studio in '99 so 911 happened for us, and that was a remarkable time. Obviously, the next, Gulf War happened, and lots of other things. And, you know, the studio became a community. It became a place for people to go, even if they just wanted to sit and be in the room, let alone practice. I remember the practice after 911 people just wanted to sit and gather and cry and talk and rage and not move. They didn't want to move their bodies. They just needed community. They felt so detached.Lesley Logan 25:24  Yeah. I mean, I wasn't any, I wasn't in a practice at the time, but I remember, because we were in California, so you're so removed, but you're not, you know? And so I can see how, like, your space can be that. And I think, like, it's so cool and also so big to have us to do a practice that can be so many things for people. It can be the community that they need, it could be the safe space that they share, and it can be a constant, like, it's there, no matter when things are good or when things are bad. And we don't have a lot of those things, right? Like, there's not there's not a lot of places or things you can do even when times are good and when times are bad, and I know you're gonna tell me good and bad, but like, you know, in the in the happier, joyful times versus, like, the sadder times.Anthony Benenati 26:09  Right, now we're in a really difficult time, and we've been here before. 2008 we were here the last time this particular President was in office. We were here. And we go through these cycles, and they're not unlike other cycles throughout the history of life, and we will have more. And it's not always positive, it's not always happy, it's not always on the incline. Sometimes it takes a dip. And you and I both know that that's really where you're tested. You're tested in the dips. You're never tested when things are great, and you're never going to change when things are comfortable either. Change only happens when you're uncomfortable.Lesley Logan 26:47  Yeah, it's really true. One of the my favorite things that you would bring up when we were in class is talking about, like, you know, you can't have love without hate, the equal opposite. And I was hoping you can, like, dive into that a little bit for us. Because I think, one, I actually think since these several moments of 2008 and 2016, and and now it's really easy for people to not see good and so it makes me go, like you guys, like you're seeing all the hate. Like, are you recognizing it's equal opposite. But I also, like, I think it's hard. I think people are always waiting for another shoe to drop, as opposed to, like, noticing when things are are also going well. But anyways, I wanted to know if you could, like, just share a little bit about that, because my listeners haven't heard that, and it was my favorite things. Like, Brad brought up your, like, Saturday morning classes today in a call with people, and he said, like, there'd be like, 50 people in this room, and you know, like you would often bring that up, and it was always around the same time that, like, something not great was going on. We all just felt it, whether it was in the city or the world. And like, you have to remind yourself of those things. Anthony Benenati 27:53  It ties into the whole good and bad thing, because it's a reframing of thought. Like, you have to really reframe this idea that even, even if it's something that you don't like, it's serving something. So it's a basic function of physics, like, things wouldn't exist if it didn't have an opposite, right? You wouldn't know joy if you didn't know pain, you wouldn't know laughter if you didn't know sadness, you wouldn't have anything to reference it to. So your capacity to love is directly related to your capacity to hate, to feeling these negative, quote, negative feelings versus these positive. They're there to balance each other out, and it's the idea is that it's your choice which one you want to feed. You remember Star Wars, right? Think about the force. The force is this, is this neutral thing, and it's how you choose to use it. They were all using the same force. But the lesson was, am I going to use this to help empower and further and engage, or am I going to use this for selfish and personal and destructive reasons? Same energy, how do you use it? So rather than wasting your time on whether something is good or bad or right and wrong, it really serves you to think, is this serving me? Because, like you said earlier, at some point in your life, it served you, whether it was to keep you safe when you were a child, for instance, maybe you were in a really bad home life, and you learned coping mechanisms. You learn, for instance, maybe how to shut it out, right, and how to go into your own cave, which is, which is very easy for me to do. If things get too much, I tend to remove myself and go back into this little cave. Well, you can't do that when you're in relationship. Yeah. Well, you certainly can't do that for very long, right? You need tools like, yes, I need to go take 10 or 30 minutes to myself, but I'll be back. It's that communication, to let that other person know I'm not leaving you. I'm not not communicating with you, but I do need to take care of myself. So it's changing, the languaging around this. So it helps me to think, for instance, this bad time that we're having right now, it's temporary. Now, temporary may mean years.Anthony Benenati 27:55  Yeah, I know I had a like, a thing, like, like, a little mantra card that's, everything, everything, everything is temporary. And I'm like, and temporary does not mean two seconds, two minutes, two weeks.Anthony Benenati 30:02  Exactly. There is no time limit on temporary, but it will end. Things always do. Things always change, but it was helpful to me to look at kind of life in that different way. I wasn't raised like that. I was raised as a Catholic, so it was always guilt and shame and right and wrong and very linear thinking, very black and white thinking, very dualistic, instead of this idea that maybe it's not so black and white, maybe there is the gray. And I think we're all learning that extremism on either end is not the path. So, far right or far left, we're not going to get anywhere because we're isolating. We have to find a way to start communicating again and finding common ground and stop making other the problem. Lesley Logan 31:41  Yeah, yeah. Anthony Benenati 31:43  That's my that's my I think that goes on and off the mat. Don't look at your body as a bad thing. Don't look at it as something that you need to conquer or change, or that somehow there's something wrong with you. How can I enhance myself? How can I make me who I am, and everything that I am that may not be somebody else, but very unique to me. How can I make myself even better, a better version of me, not, not somebody else. I don't have to be somebody else. I just have to be the best me I can be.Lesley Logan 32:18  Yeah. That makes me think of like, I interviewed a happiness strategist, and I was like, you know, I was like, this is interesting, because, like, like, can you be happy all the time? And she's like, well, of course not. She's like, like, she's like, she's like, but she said your ability to be happy is as directly related to how uncomfortable you can get, like, how comfortable withuncomfortable. You can get like, that's, can you like, what's your resilience? And she, you know, and I think, like, I think a lot of people have been outsourcing so long how they feel based on, like, what's going on out in the world, and not going back to like, how can I make myself the best version? Because we can affect the people around us more easily when you were talking about other it made me think you guys Google the Heineken commercial. It's quite long, but they literally took, like, people of opposite extremes and like, they took a guy who, like, voted against gay marriage, and then they took a lesbian and they put them in a room together, and they have to, like, build a desk, right? And like, and they, a table, or they build something. And the guy, like, this one guy is like, completely, I got this. I like, I can do these things, right? And she's like, and like, so they have to work together to build this thing. And like, each personal strengths have to do it, and then they have to sit down and have a beer. And at the end, the people who like when they interviewed them before they met the person they're building with, it would be like, I don't understand transgenders. I think they have to know rights, blah, blah, blah. And then they meet someone who's transgender, but they just built this desk together, and you watch this person go, well, let's have another drink and like, so it's really fascinating that, like, if we can actually stop, you know, being on the opposite sides, we can actually be together, and you get to know people, you're more likely to hear them and listen to them and realize we're kind of like what you think has been influenced by so much, by other people who are louder and you you actually love people who are around you more than you know, you know? And so I think that's what's so beautiful about a yoga class, or even Pilates classes, they can attract people from all sides of a spectrum and have a shared experience. And you know, because, and the more they get to know themselves, the more ideally, and this may be the idealist in me, like they think about caring for others, because they can, because once you've, once you've taken care of you, you actually have the capacity to actually care about other people.Anthony Benenati 34:45  Oxygen mask, baby. It's all about putting on your oxygen mask, right? You got to put yours on first. You can't help anybody else if you're passed out. But I like what you said there, too, because Yoga does want to meet people where they're at. I remember, I had this woman in class. She always sat up front and in the beginning of class, at that time, we would chant the sound of om in the beginning of class, just to settle the class and get things going. And she would never chant, and that's fine. You don't have to, right? It's again, everything's an invitation. But she did come up to me after class one day, and we had a conversation, and I asked her why, and she says, well, you know, I'm a devout Jew, and I feel like I'm sort of disrespecting my tradition if I'm doing something I don't understand. And I said, well, I'm so glad that you brought that up. First of all, yoga doesn't care what you believe. You can believe you know, Orange is God, and you can still practice. Yoga doesn't require a belief, it just requires a willingness. And I said, well, you're a devout Jew, so what are you comfortable saying? And she said, well, shalom. And I said, Well, what's in the middle of shalom? And she said om. And I said, exactly. So from that point on, we would chant om, and she would chant shalom, and she would just hold the om. It, for some reason, it gave her permission. It was totally fine with everybody else, and then she felt included. That was a wonderful story. Lesley Logan 36:19  I love that. I think also giving people permission, right? Like, I think that's what, you know, people can have permission to move their body, but also be in practice. Like, that's why it's called a yoga practice, and I think that's what it does so well, something that, like, I call it a Pilates practice, and there are a lot of people like me who call it practice, but there's also a lot of people who don't understand that, and they don't call it that, and they're like, I gotta get this. And it's like, no, what are you talking about, like, you're never gonna like, you don't get that. Like, it's your body. Your body's different every single day. Like, there are days like, at 6am I do Pilates, and at 8am I work out with you, and my body between those two hours is very different. And I'm like, whoa. I, what happened on my dog walk that this is no longer an option. I do, I do like that. Okay, I want to go into, because I think, like, you have had so many chapters in your yoga career, and what how you are, how you are teaching yoga now, is very different than what you did for the majority on your studio and things like that. Like we talk about some, be it till you see it moments and like, kind of like, what your what are you being till you see it, right now?Anthony Benenati 37:20  You're right. I did go through a lot when you when you have a studio for that long, you know, you go through a lot of changes, including me and my original partner, we split, and then there was that moment where you had to decide who's going to fight for this, who's going to get the studio, because we both wanted it, and that was that was all about desire. Do you really want this? And how bad do you want it? And then after that, there were other things that came up every time you're being tested. And you will be tested no matter how committed you think you are to whatever it is that you think you want, you're going to continue to be tested. And it just is a way to reaffirm, do I really want to be it? Do I really want to do this? For me now, you're right. It is different. My body is different. My practice is different, and not in a bad or a good way, just different. This is the different body than it was when it was in my late 20s. Being it now is, for me, is really being about being authentic, being authentic to the moment, being authentic to my students, but really being authentic to my own inner voice. And every time I get on the mat, the first thing I tell my students is, listen, listen to your body. It's going to tell you something different today than it did yesterday. If you come onto the mat with an agenda, most of the time, you're going to be disappointed, because you don't know that your body's ready to do those things that day, that particular day, maybe you need something completely different than you thought. We have to be open to that. And then the day I decided that my time of studio ownership was over, that was a tough one. That was a really hard day. But the moment I decided to make that shift, I felt so much more freedom. Yoga had changed, you know, it really had become corporate. At this point, it was being completely watered down. People were barely doing teacher trainings and leading yoga classes, and it just became too much of a struggle to do the business of yoga versus being the teacher. You know, when you own your own business, you never are not working. That's the thing. It's 24/7 right? You don't get to clock out and go home and forget about it. Lesley Logan 39:50  Yeah, there's a reason why I like, watch White Lotus. I'm like, because I'm not where I can't work and watch White Lotus like, this is me being awesome. That's how it serves me. Even if it, like, gives me a little stress and anxiety, I'm like, but I'm not working, so I get it, no, like, I mean, like, yeah, and then I I, I'm where I'm married to someone I work with. So it's never, it's never off. Yeah, but I, thank you for sharing that, because, I mean, like, I think a lot of people, there's an aspiration to start something or do something or own something. But as you said, you've evolved. Not only has yoga evolved, but you've evolved. Your body has changed. And I think sometimes we forget that as we evolve, we outgrow some roles, you know, and like, just like you outgrow clothes, like you outgrow, like you outgrow a role, and it's like owning a studio serves such a good purpose, like a good purpose at the time, like you had a partner and a family and, like all these things. And then it also got to a place where it's like all this is changing, and I have, too, you know, but that's so hard to like, because it's like a light switch. Anthony Benenati 40:58  Yeah. Well, you know, I had felt it, but not really paid attention to it. And you know how your body does, your body will jump in there and it'll call your attention. And I literally had my one and only panic attack at that moment. It was like, oh yeah, this is a sign you are not in a good place. This, this, this, it's time to get out. It's time this, this had run its course. And that was a hard decision to really give up the thing that you worked so hard to create. But it was also learning that that was separate from who I was, that we were not inextricably connected, that we were these individual things, and we did create a third thing, but that third thing was dying, and it was time to change into something else.Lesley Logan 41:46  Yeah, yeah. What are you most excited about right now?Anthony Benenati 41:51  Oh my gosh, we are empty nesters. That's the most, 25 years of being a parent.Lesley Logan 41:59  I had someone I just interviewed. She's like, I'm a bird launcher. She's like, I've launched all my birds. They're all birds. They're all launched. Like, the positive of that.Anthony Benenati 42:10  It is so true. We are so excited about this next chapter for us, which is freedom in a lot of different ways, right? I mean, you're never not the parent, but they don't need you every day anymore. They need you when they need you and and happy to be there when they do. Like this morning, my youngest called from college, and she stayed on the phone for over an hour. And she just needed feedback. She needed to connect. She didn't necessarily need a ton of advice. She just, you could feel that she needed connection. For now, for me, it really is about this next chapter. Your lives are a bunch of chapters, and at being, you know, 50, I'll be 58 this year. It's a very I know, right? Yeah, I can't believe it myself, but this idea now that I can make choices solely for me or solely for us as a couple and not oh my god, what are we going to do with the kids, and is this child going to come? Or are they not going to come, or are we going to do this all together, that we can make these choices for ourselves, I'm really excited about that. That's the personal aspect of it. Professionally, professionally, things have changed, you know, ever since covid, everybody went online, and which is great. It's a great way to connect to everybody, but I still feel the need to be in the classroom, yeah, and we do those in persons, and we do those yoga retreats, and we do those monthly workshops, just so that people can have that feeling of connection and community again. Lesley Logan 43:52  Yeah, I think that's why we do our tours, too. Like, I love being online, because I can impact people without having to travel as much. And also, like, I need to see bodies in three dimensions.Anthony Benenati 44:03  Right. How do you make an adjustment with you can't see and touch? Lesley Logan 44:06  No, I'm literally going so if I was there, I would hold your arms still. Imagine I'm like, is your child around? Can they grab your arms and hold them? Hold their hold their arms. Okay. Now go.Anthony Benenati 44:18  That's so good. Lesley Logan 44:19  You know, but like, I think, I think that's why, like, I like the idea of, like, really reframing what's good or bad. Because, like, I think it could be so easy, like, back before the pandemic, like, oh, online is terrible. You can't have those things. But we, Brad and I used to, like, call you just be on the phone. Because I was like, I can't handle the traffic. I can't but I want you. So just, just be on just be on speakerphone, and we'll mute ourselves, and we'll be, you know, but like, when the pandemic happened, I was like, oh, I love this, because now I can have access to the people, I don't live in the same town as you, and I, Brad and I still get to have that practice with you, and I think, but also, yeah, we miss, like, actual hugs and actually seeing people, and you have to be more intentional. But I think that that, I think then we are more intentional, you know, so that is also cool.Anthony Benenati 45:08  Yeah, we really mourned the day you guys left.Lesley Logan 45:12  When we moved from L.A. to Las Vegas was during the pandemic, and we didn't actually have a mourning, because nothing was actually happening in person, the more like it was a year and a half later when things opened back up and we were not part of the opening back up that was like, so it was a delayed mourning, a delayed grief for us. Okay, obviously, we're gonna all catch up, guys. We're gonna take a brief break, find out how people can find you, follow you, do yoga with you. Anthony Benenati 45:39  Great. Lesley Logan 45:40  All right, Anthony, where do you hang out? Like, are you on the Instagram? Or is there just a simpler way? How can people do yoga with you or learn more about what you're doing? Where do you where can they go? Anthony Benenati 45:52  Well, they can go to my website, which is, thatsnotyoga.com and of course, there's a story behind that, because that's a pretty bold statement, which was intentional. One of the misconceptions about yoga is that anything goes, right, and that is so far from the truth. If yoga is about anything, it's about setting meaningful boundaries. So if you take a bunch of energy and you narrow it, you're going to increase the flow of that energy. Just think of water. Take a lake. Narrow the boundaries. It becomes a river. Narrow the boundaries even more, becomes a raging river. So most people think that if you limit their choices, then you're limiting their freedom. But I call it the Cheesecake Factory theory. Walk into a Cheesecake Factory and you sit down, and they literally throw you down a book. And they're like, okay, what do you want? And you can have anything. The book is like, an inch thick. And I just get overloaded because there's too many choices. I much prefer to go to a restaurant where they just print the menu that day and there's six things on it, and you can have this, this or this, and I'm like, great, I'll have that. The narrowing of your choices actually gives you more freedom, because you're constantly saying no to a bunch of things while you're saying yes to a limited amount of things, right? Like being in marriage, you're saying yes to Brad and no to everybody else. It's this process that continues throughout your entire day, right? What am I letting in? What am I consciously keeping away? I love that understanding.Lesley Logan 47:42  I love that. So you guys just so you know, because he didn't say it, but I'm gonna say it for him. Brad and I can do yoga online with this man. You do it three times a week. I try to show up twice a week when I'm there. And Brad, we're getting him on the 8 am wake up call. We're working on. Do you remember? Do you remember when he used to do it 6 am? I think we have to remind him that he used to do 6 am yoga. Anthony Benenati 48:03  Absolutely. Lesley Logan 48:03  When the bed was further away from the studio was the the thing. So you guys can do that. You can find that on, on, thatsnot yoga.com. You kind of just gave us a Be It Action Item. But I just want to see like, if there's any other bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. Anthony Benenati 48:18  Okay. The the, the the triad, the triumvirate that we like to follow in the practice, is desire, knowledge, action. Those are my Be It moments. To break it down, you got to want to do something, then you have to learn how to do it, and then you do it, this whole idea of just do it, that's not going to work. Just doing something without knowing how to do it can cause you harm doing something and you don't have the real desire to do it, you're not going to put your best effort in. If you do those three things in that order, you can pretty much do whatever you want to do. You've got to want to do it. You got to learn how to do it, and then you simply have to do it, and you have to commit to doing it over and over and over again to create that meaningful change. Those are my action items. And the thing is, is, if you don't want to do it, don't do it. That's the thing. You're, exactly, more freedom. And that's whole, that's yoga's goal. Yoga just wants you to be more free. But that doesn't mean no boundaries. It means establishing meaningful boundaries, boundaries that are going to channel you in the direction you want to go. And guess what, people, you can always change your mind. You can always change your mind.Lesley Logan 49:48  I mean, that is like that needs to be on people's walls. Because I find like, you know, like, imagine if you never gave yourself permission to change your mind. You might, you might, the world might have lost a yoga teacher that day, because you would have had a panic attack and then a burnout, you know, like, you can change your mind on your schedule, you can change your mind on your goals. You can change your mind on lot of things, like, you know, and that is for the perfectionist, listening. That might be the hardest thing you learn.Anthony Benenati 50:14  I'm speaking to you, perfectionist.Lesley Logan 50:17  Yeah, oh my gosh, Anthony, obviously I could talk to you for hours. And clearly Brad is like itching to walk in this room, you guys, so we gotta let him in so you can say hi to his friend, but thank you for being here, and thank you for just sharing so much of your wisdom. I continue to learn from you. Always. I can't wait to learn more. Someday we're gonna do a joint Pilates, yoga. That is my dream. That is my vision. Maybe on the Summer Tour. Maybe you'll be our L.A. event. So see, you guys, let us know what your favorite takeaways were. Let Anthony know in thatsnotyoga. Let the Be It Pod know and share this with a friend who needs to hear it, because that's how everyone wins. You know, we all can take away something from this, and I'd love to hear what yours are, and you know what to do, until next time, Be It Till You See It. Lesley Logan 51:02  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Brad Crowell 51:41  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 51:46  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 51:50  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 51:58  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 52:01  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Lesley Logan 52:14  I'm interviewing Anthony. Anthony Benenati 52:15  Hi, Brad. Lesley Logan 52:16  Yeah, it's an interview right now. No, we're not done. You're just interrupting. We'll put this in the bloopers. He's come in twice, and I'm like, um. Anthony Benenati 52:24  What's up, buddy? Brad Crowell 52:26  I wanted to say hi. Lesley Logan 52:27  Yeah. Okay, alright, one second, let me get to those Be It Action Items. Okay. We'll talk.Transcribed by https://otter.aiSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest Dion Lack Roxxy Haze Rodney Perry This Week We Discuss Banned From Uber/Lyft vs Every Fast Food Restaurant Have A Partner With A Weird Sexual Kink vs Weird Smell S/o To Our Sponsors Ava Download Ava Promo: SQUADD Blue Chew Bluechew.com/SQUADD Prizepicks Download Prizepicks Promo: SQUADD

Today I'm talking to economic historian Judge Glock, Director of Research at the Manhattan Institute. Judge works on a lot of topics: if you enjoy this episode, I'd encourage you to read some of his work on housing markets and the Environmental Protection Agency. But I cornered him today to talk about civil service reform.Since the 1990s, over 20 red and blue states have made radical changes to how they hire and fire government employees — changes that would be completely outside the Overton window at the federal level. A paper by Judge and Renu Mukherjee lists four reforms made by states like Texas, Florida, and Georgia: * At-will employment for state workers* The elimination of collective bargaining agreements* Giving managers much more discretion to hire* Giving managers much more discretion in how they pay employeesJudge finds decent evidence that the reforms have improved the effectiveness of state governments, and little evidence of the politicization that federal reformers fear. Meanwhile, in Washington, managers can't see applicants' resumes, keyword searches determine who gets hired, and firing a bad performer can take years. But almost none of these ideas are on the table in Washington.Thanks to Harry Fletcher-Wood for his judicious transcript edits and fact-checking, and to Katerina Barton for audio edits.Judge, you have a paper out about lessons for civil service reform from the states. Since the ‘90s, red and blue states have made big changes to how they hire and fire people. Walk through those changes for me.I was born and grew up in Washington DC, heard a lot about civil service throughout my childhood, and began to research it as an adult. But I knew almost nothing about the state civil service systems. When I began working in the states — mainly across the Sunbelt, including in Texas, Kansas, Arizona — I was surprised to learn that their civil service systems were reformed to an absolutely radical extent relative to anything proposed at the federal level, let alone implemented.Starting in the 1990s, several states went to complete at-will employment. That means there were no official civil service protections for any state employees. Some managers were authorized to hire people off the street, just like you could in the private sector. A manager meets someone in a coffee shop, they say, "I'm looking for exactly your role. Why don't you come on board?" At the federal level, with its stultified hiring process, it seemed absurd to even suggest something like that.You had states that got rid of any collective bargaining agreements with their public employee unions. You also had states that did a lot more broadbanding [creating wider pay bands] for employee pay: a lot more discretion for managers to reward or penalize their employees depending on their performance.These major reforms in these states were, from the perspective of DC, incredibly radical. Literally nobody at the federal level proposes anything approximating what has been in place for decades in the states. That should be more commonly known, and should infiltrate the debate on civil service reform in DC.Even though the evidence is not absolutely airtight, on the whole these reforms have been positive. A lot of the evidence is surveys asking managers and operators in these states how they think it works. They've generally been positive. We know these states operate pretty well: Places like Texas, Florida, and Arizona rank well on state capacity metrics in terms of cost of government, time for permitting, and other issues.Finally, to me the most surprising thing is the dog that didn't bark. The argument in the federal government against civil service reform is, “If you do this, we will open up the gates of hell and return to the 19th-century patronage system, where spoilsmen come and go depending on elected officials, and the government is overrun with political appointees who don't care about the civil service.” That has simply not happened. We have very few reports of any concrete examples of politicization at the state level. In surveys, state employees and managers can almost never remember any example of political preferences influencing hiring or firing.One of the surveys you cited asked, “Can you think of a time someone said that they thought that the political preferences were a factor in civil service hiring?” and it was something like 5%.It was in that 5-10% range. I don't think you'd find a dissimilar number of people who would say that even in an official civil service system. Politics is not completely excluded even from a formal civil service system.A few weeks ago, you and I talked to our mutual friend, Don Moynihan, who's a scholar of public administration. He's more skeptical about the evidence that civil service reform would be positive at the federal level.One of your points is, “We don't have strong negative evidence from the states. Productivity didn't crater in states that moved to an at-will employment system.” We do have strong evidence that collective bargaining in the public sector is bad for productivity.What I think you and Don would agree on is that we could use more evidence on the hiring and firing side than the surveys that we have. Is that a fair assessment?Yes, I think that's correct. As you mentioned, the evidence on collective bargaining is pretty close to universal: it raises costs, reduces the efficiency of government, and has few to no positive upsides.On hiring and firing, I mentioned a few studies. There's a 2013 study that looks at HR managers in six states and finds very little evidence of politicization, and managers generally prefer the new system. There was a dissertation that surveyed several employees and managers in civil service reform and non-reform states. Across the board, the at-will employment states said they had better hiring retention, productivity, and so forth. And there's a 2002 study that looked specifically at Texas, Florida, and Georgia after their reforms, and found almost universal approbation inside the civil service itself for these reforms.These are not randomized control trials. But I think that generally positive evidence should point us directionally where we should go on civil service reform. If we loosen restrictions on discipline and firing, decentralize hiring and so forth — we probably get some productivity benefits from it. We can also know, with some amount of confidence, that the sky is not going to fall, which I think is a very important baseline assumption. The civil service system will continue on and probably be fairly close to what it is today, in terms of its political influence, if you have decentralized hiring and at-will employment.As you point out, a lot of these reforms that have happened in 20-odd states since the ‘90s would be totally outside the Overton window at the federal level. Why is it so easy for Georgia to make a bipartisan move in the ‘90s to at-will employment, when you couldn't raise the topic at the federal level?It's a good question. I think in the 1990s, a lot of people thought a combination of the 1978 Civil Service Reform Act — which was the Carter-era act that somewhat attempted to do what these states hoped to do in the 1990s — and the Clinton-era Reinventing Government Initiative, would accomplish the same ends. That didn't happen.That was an era when civil service reform was much more bipartisan. In Georgia, it was a Democratic governor, Zell Miller, who pushed it. In a lot of these other states, they got buy-in from both sides. The recent era of state reform took place after the 2010 Republican wave in the states. Since that wave, the reform impetus for civil service has been much more Republican. That has meant it's been a lot harder to get buy-in from both sides at the federal level, which will be necessary to overcome a filibuster.I think people know it has to be very bipartisan. We're just past the point, at least at the moment, where it can be bipartisan at the federal level. But there are areas where there's a fair amount of overlap between the two sides on what needs to happen, at least in the upper reaches of the civil service.It was interesting to me just how bipartisan civil service reform has been at various times. You talked about the Civil Service Reform Act, which passed Congress in 1978. President Carter tells Congress that the civil service system:“Has become a bureaucratic maze which neglects merit, tolerates poor performance, permits abuse of legitimate employee rights, and mires every personnel action in red tape, delay, and confusion.”That's a Democratic president saying that. It's striking to me that the civil service was not the polarized topic that it is today.Absolutely. Carter was a big civil service reformer in Georgia before those even larger 1990s reforms. He campaigned on civil service reform and thought it was essential to the success of his presidency. But I think you are seeing little sprouts of potential bipartisanship today, like the Chance to Compete Act at the end of 2024, and some of the reforms Obama did to the hiring process. There's options for bipartisanship at the federal level, even if it can't approach what the states have done.I want to walk through the federal hiring process. Let's say you're looking to hire in some federal agency — you pick the agency — and I graduated college recently, and I want to go into the civil service. Tell me about trying to hire somebody like me. What's your first step?It's interesting you bring up the college graduate, because that is one recent reform: President Trump put out an executive order trying to counsel agencies to remove the college degree requirement for job postings. This happened in a lot of states first, like Maryland, and that's also been bipartisan. This requirement for a college degree — which was used as a very unfortunate proxy for ability at a lot of these jobs — is now being removed. It's not across the whole federal government. There's still job postings that require higher education degrees, but that's something that's changed.To your question, let's say the Department of Transportation. That's one of the more bipartisan ones, when you look at surveys of federal civil servants. Department of Defense, Veterans Affairs, they tend to be a little more Republican. Health and Human Services and some other agencies tend to be pretty Democrat. Transportation is somewhere in the middle.As a manager, you try to craft a job description and posting to go up on the USA Jobs website, which is where all federal job postings go. When they created it back in 1996, that was supposedly a massive reform to federal hiring: this website where people could submit their resumes. Then, people submit their resumes and answer questions about their qualifications for the job.One of the slightly different aspects from the private sector is that those applications usually go to an HR specialist first. The specialist reviews everything and starts to rank people into different categories, based on a lot of weird things. It's supposed to be “knowledge, skills, and abilities” — your KSAs, or competencies. To some extent, this is a big step up from historical practice. You had, frankly, an absurd civil service exam, where people had to fill out questions about, say, General Grant or about US Code Title 42, or whatever it was, and then submit it. Someone rated the civil service exam, and then the top three test-takers were eligible for the job.We have this newer, better system, where we rank on knowledge, skills, and abilities, and HR puts put people into different categories. One of the awkward ways they do this is by merely scanning the resumes and applications for keywords. If it's a computer job, make sure you say the word “computer” somewhere in your resume. Make sure you say “manager” if it's a managerial job.Just to be clear, this is entirely literal. There's a keyword search, and folks who don't pass that search are dinged.Yes. I've always wondered, how common is this? It's sometimes hard to know what happens in the black box in these federal HR departments. I saw an HR official recently say, "If I'm not allowed to do keyword searches, I'm going to take 15 years to overlook all the applications, so I've got to do keyword searches." If they don't have the keywords, into the circular file it goes, as they used to say: into the garbage can.Then they start ranking people on their abilities into, often, three different categories. That is also very literal. If you put in the little word bubble, "I am an exceptional manager," you get pushed on into the next level of the competition. If you say, "I'm pretty good, but I'm not the best," into the circular file you go.I've gotten jaded about this, but it really is shocking. We ask candidates for a self-assessment, and if they just rank themselves 10/10 on everything, no matter how ludicrous, that improves their odds of being hired.That's going to immensely improve your odds. Similar to the keyword search, there's been pushback on this in recent years, and I'm definitely not going to say it's universal anymore. It's rarer than it used to be. But it's still a very common process.The historical civil service system used to operate on a rule of three. In places like New York, it still operates like that. The top three candidates on the evaluation system get presented to the manager, and the manager has to approve one of them for the position.Thanks partially to reforms by the Obama administration in 2010, they have this category rating system where the best qualified or the very qualified get put into a big bucket together [instead of only including the top three]. Those are the people that the person doing the hiring gets to see, evaluate, and decide who he wants to hire.There are some restrictions on that. If a veteran outranks everybody else, you've got to pick the veteran [typically known as Veterans' Preference]. That was an issue in some of the state civil service reforms, too. The states said, “We're just going to encourage a veterans' preference. We don't need a formalized system to say they get X number of points and have to be in Y category. We're just going to say, ‘Try to hire veterans.'” That's possible without the formal system, despite what some opponents of reform may claim.One of the particular problems here is just the nature of the people doing the hiring. Sometimes you just need good managers to encourage HR departments to look at a broader set of qualifications. But one of the bigger problems is that they keep the HR evaluation system divorced from the manager who is doing the hiring. David Shulkin, who was the head of the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), wrote a great book, It Shouldn't Be This Hard to Serve Your Country. He was a healthcare exec, and the VA is mainly a healthcare agency. He would tell people, "You should work for me," they would send their applications into the HR void, and he'd never see them again. They would get blocked at some point in this HR evaluation process, and he'd be sent people with no healthcare experience, because for whatever reason they did well in the ranking.One of the very base-level reforms should be, “How can we more clearly integrate the hiring manager with the evaluation process?” To some extent, the bipartisan Chance to Compete Act tries to do this. They said, “You should have subject matter experts who are part of crafting the description of the job, are part of evaluating, and so forth.” But there's still a long road to go.Does that firewall — where the person who wants to hire doesn't get to look at the process until the end — exist originally because of concerns about cronyism?One of the interesting things about the civil service is its raison d'être — its reason for being — was supposedly a single, clear purpose: to prevent politicized hiring and patronage. That goes back to the Pendleton Civil Service Act of 1883. But it's always been a little strange that you have all of these very complex rules about every step of the process — from hiring to firing to promotion, and everything in between — to prevent political influence. We could just focus on preventing political influence, and not regulate every step of the process on the off-chance that without a clear regulation, political influence could creep in. This division [between hiring manager and applicants] is part of that general concern. There are areas where I've heard HR specialists say, "We declare that a manager is a subject matter expert, and we bring them into the process early on, we can do that." But still the division is pretty stark, and it's based on this excessive concern about patronage.One point you flag is that the Office of Personnel Management (OPM), which is the body that thinks about personnel in the federal government, has a 300-page regulatory document for agencies on how you have to hire. There's a remarkable amount of process.Yes, but even that is a big change from the Federal Personnel Manual, which was the 10,000-page document that we shredded in the 1990s. In the ‘90s, OPM gave the agencies what's called “delegated examining authorities.” This says, “You, agency, have power to decide who to hire, we're not going to do the central supervision anymore. But, but, but: here's the 300-page document that dictates exactly how you have to carry out that hiring.”So we have some decentralization, allowing managers more authority to control their own departments. But this two-level oversight — a local HR department that's ultimately being overseen by the OPM — also leads to a lot of slip ‘twixt cup and lip, in terms of how something gets implemented. If you're in the agency and you're concerned about the OPM overseeing your process, you're likely to be much more careful than you would like to be. “Yes, it's delegated to me, but ultimately, I know I have to answer to OPM about this process. I'm just going to color within the lines.”I often cite Texas, which has no central HR office. Each agency decides how it wants to hire. In a lot of these reform states, if there is a central personnel office, it's an information clearinghouse or reservoir of models. “You can use us, the central HR office, as a resource if you want us to help you post the job, evaluate it, or help manage your processes, but you don't have to.” That's the goal we should be striving for in a lot of the federal reforms. Just make OPM a resource for the managers in the individual departments to do their thing or go independent.Let's say I somehow get through the hiring process. You offer me a job at the Department of Transportation. What are you paying me?This is one of the more stultified aspects of the federal civil service system. OPM has another multi-hundred-page handbook called the Handbook of Occupational Groups and Families. Inside that, you've got 49 different “groups and families,” like “Clerical occupations.” Inside those 49 groups are a series of jobs, sometimes dozens, like “Computer Operator.” Inside those, they have independent documents — often themselves dozens of pages long — detailing classes of positions. Then you as a manager have to evaluate these nine factors, which can each give points to each position, which decides how you get slotted into this weird Government Schedule (GS) system [the federal payscale].Again, this is actually an improvement. Before, you used to have the Civil Service Commission, which went around staring very closely at someone over their typewriter and saying, "No, I think you should be a GS-12, not a GS-11, because someone over in the Department of Defense who does your same job is a GS-12." Now this is delegated to agencies, but again, the agencies have to listen to the OPM on how to classify and set their jobs into this 15-stage GS-classification system, each stage of which has 10 steps which determine your pay, and those steps are determined mainly by your seniority. It's a formalized step-by-step system, overwhelmingly based on just how long you've sat at your desk.Let's be optimistic about my performance as a civil servant. Say that over my first three years, I'm just hitting it out of the park. Can you give me a raise? What can you do to keep me in my role?Not too much. For most people, the within-step increases — those 10 steps inside each GS-level — is just set by seniority. Now there are all these quality step increases you can get, but they're very rare and they have to be documented. So you could hypothetically pay someone more, but it's going to be tough. In general, the managers just prefer to stick to seniority, because not sticking to it garners a lot of complaints. Like so much else, the goal is, "We don't want someone rewarding an official because they happen to share their political preferences." The result of that concern is basically nobody can get rewarded at all, which is very unfortunate.We do have examples in state and federal government of what's known as broadbanding, where you have very broad pay scales, and the manager can decide where to slot someone. Say you're a computer operator, which can mean someone who knows what an Excel spreadsheet is, or someone who's programming the most advanced AI systems. As a manager in South Carolina or Florida, you have a lot of discretion to say, "I can set you 50% above the market rate of what this job technically would go for, if I think you're doing a great job."That's very rare at the federal level. They've done broadbanding at the Government Accountability Office, the National Institute of Standards and Technology. The China Lake Experiment out in California gave managers a lot more discretion to reward scientists. But that's definitely the exception. In general, it's a step-wise, seniority-based system.What if you want to bring me into the Senior Executive Service (SES)? Theoretically, that sits at the top of the General Service scale. Can't you bump me up in there and pay me what you owe me?I could hypothetically bring you in as a senior executive servant. The SES was created in the 1978 Civil Service Reform Act. The idea was, “We're going to have this elite cadre of about 8,000 individuals at the top of the federal government, whose employment will be higher-risk and higher-reward. They might be fired, and we're going to give them higher pay to compensate for that.”Almost immediately, that did not work out. Congress was outraged at the higher pay given to the top officials and capped it. Ever since, how much the SES can get paid has been tightly controlled. As in most of the rest of the federal government, where they establish these performance pay incentives or bonuses — which do exist — they spread them like peanut butter over the whole service. To forestall complaints, everyone gets a little bit every two or three years.That's basically what happened to the SES. Their annual pay is capped at the vice president's salary, which is a cap for a lot of people in the federal government. For most of your GS and other executive scales, the cap is Congress's salary. [NB: This is no longer exactly true, since Congress froze its own salaries in 2009. The cap for GS (currently about $195k) is now above congressional salaries ($174k).]One of the big problems with pay in the federal government is pay compression. Across civil service systems, the highest-skilled people tend to be paid much less than the private sector, and the lowest-skilled people tend to get paid much more. The political science reason for that is pretty simple: the median voter in America still decides what seems reasonable. To the median voter, the average salary of a janitor looks low, and the average salary of a scientist looks way too high. Hence this tendency to pay compression. Your average federal employee is probably overpaid relative to the private sector, because the lowest-skilled employees are paid up to 40% higher than the private sector equivalent. The highest-paid employees, the post-graduate skilled professionals, are paid less. That makes it hard to recruit the top performers, but it also swells the wage budget in a way that makes it difficult to talk about reform.There's a lot of interest in this administration in making it easier to recruit talent and get rid of under-performers. There have been aggressive pushes to limit collective bargaining in the public sector. That should theoretically make it easier to recruit, but it also increases the precariousness of civil service roles. We've seen huge firings in the civil service over the last six months.Classically, the explicit trade-off of working in the federal government was, “Your pay is going to be capped, but you have this job for life. It's impossible to get rid of you.” You trade some lifetime earnings for stability. In a world where the stability is gone, but pay is still capped, isn't the net effect to drive talent away from the civil service?I think it's a concern now. On one level it should be ameliorated, because those who are most concerned with stability of employment do tend to be lower performers. If you have people who are leaving the federal service because all they want is stability, and they're not getting that anymore, that may not be a net loss. As someone who came out of academia and knows the wonder of effective lifetime annuities, there can be very high performers who like that stability who therefore take a lower salary. Without the ability to bump that pay up more, it's going to be an issue.I do know that, internally, the Trump administration has made some signs they're open to reforms in the top tiers of the SES and other parts of the federal government. They would be willing to have people get paid more at that level to compensate for the increased risks since the Trump administration came in. But when you look at the reductions in force (RIFs) that have happened under Trump, they are overwhelmingly among probationary employees, the lower-level employees.With some exceptions. If you've been promoted recently, you can get reclassified as probationary, so some high-performers got lumped in.Absolutely. The issue has been exacerbated precisely because the RIF regulations that are in place have made the firings particularly damaging. If you had a more streamlined RIF system — which they do have in many states, where seniority is not the main determinant of who gets laid off — these RIFs could be removing the lower-performing civil servants and keeping the higher-performing ones, and giving them some amount of confidence in their tenure.Unfortunately, the combination of large-scale removals with the existing RIF regs, which are very stringent, has demoralized some of the upper levels of the federal government. I share that concern. But I might add, it is interesting, if you look at the federal government's own figures on the total civil service workforce, they have gone down significantly since Trump came in office, but I think less than 100,000 still, in the most recent numbers that I've seen. I'm not sure how much to trust those, versus some of these other numbers where people have said 150,000, 200,000.Whether the Trump administration or a future administration can remove large numbers of people from the civil service should be somewhat divorced from the general conversation on civil service reform. The main debate about whether or not Trump can do this centers around how much power the appropriators in Congress have to determine the total amount of spending in particular agencies on their workforce. It does not depend necessarily on, "If we're going to remove people — whether for general layoffs, or reductions in force, or because of particular performance issues — how can we go about doing that?" My last-ditch hope to maintain a bipartisan possibility of civil service reform is to bracket, “How much power does the president have to remove or limit the workforce in general?” from “How can he go about hiring and firing, et cetera?”I think making it easier for the president to identify and remove poor performers is a tool that any future administration would like to have.We had this conversation sparked again with the firing of the Bureau of Labor Statistics commissioner. But that was a position Congress set up to be appointed by the President, confirmed by the Senate, and removable by the President. It's a separate issue from civil service at large. Everyone said, “We want the president to be able to hire and fire the commissioner.” Maybe firing the commissioner was a bad decision, but that's the situation today.Attentive listeners to Statecraft know I'm pretty critical, like you are, of the regulations that say you have to go in order of seniority. In mass layoffs, you're required to fire a lot of the young, talented people.But let's talk about individual firings. I've been a terrible civil servant, a nightmarish employee from day one. You want to discipline, remove, suspend, or fire me. What are your options?Anybody who has worked in the civil service knows it's hard to fire bad performers. Whatever their political valence, whatever they feel about the civil service system, they have horror stories about a person who just couldn't be removed.In the early 2010s, a spate of stories came out about air traffic controllers sleeping on the job. Then-transportation secretary, Ray LaHood, made a big public announcement: "I'm going to fire these three guys." After these big announcements, it turned out he was only able to remove one of them. One retired, and another had their firing reduced to a suspension.You had another horrific story where a man was joking on the phone with friends when a plane crashed into a helicopter and killed nine people over the Hudson River. National outcry. They said, "We're going to fire this guy." In the end, after going through the process, he only got a suspension. Everyone agrees it's too hard.The basic story is, you have two ways to fire someone. Chapter 75, the old way, is often considered the realm of misconduct: You've stolen something from the office, punched your colleague in the face during a dispute about the coffee, something illegal or just straight-out wrong. We get you under Chapter 75.The 1978 Civil Service Reform Act added Chapter 43, which is supposed to be the performance-based system to remove someone. As with so much of that Civil Service Reform Act, the people who passed it thought this might be the beginning of an entirely different system.In the end, lots of federal managers say there's not a huge difference between the two. Some use 75, some use 43. If you use 43, you have to document very clearly what the person did wrong. You have to put them on a performance improvement plan. If they failed a performance improvement plan after a certain amount of time, they can respond to any claims about what they did wrong. Then, they can take that process up to the Merit Systems Protection Board (MSPB) and claim that they were incorrectly fired, or that the processes weren't carried out appropriately. Then, if they want to, they can say, “Nah, I don't like the order I got,” and take it up to federal courts and complain there. Right now, the MSPB doesn't have a full quorum, which is complicating some of the recent removal disputes.You have this incredibly difficult process, unlike the private sector, where your boss looks at you and says, "I don't like how you're giving me the stink-eye today. Out you go." One could say that's good or bad, but, on the whole, I think the model should be closer to the private sector. We should trust managers to do their job without excessive oversight and process. That's clearly about as far from the realm of possibility as the current system, under which the estimate is 6-12 months to fire a very bad performer. The number of people who win at the Merit Systems Protection Board is still 20-30%.This goes into another issue, which is unionization. If you're part of a collective bargaining agreement — most of the regular federal civil service is — first, you have to go with this independent, union-based arbitration and grievance procedure. You're about 50/50 to win on those if your boss tries to remove you.So if I'm in the union, we go through that arbitration grievance system. If you win and I'm fired, I can take it to the Merit Systems Protection Board. If you win again, I can still take it to the federal courts.You can file different sorts of claims at each part. On Chapter 43, the MSPB is supposed to be about the process, not the evidence, and you just have to show it was followed. On 75, the manager has to show by preponderance of the evidence that the employee is harming the agency. Then there are different standards for what you take to the courts, and different standards according to each collective bargaining agreement for the grievance procedure when someone is disciplined. It's a very complicated, abstruse, and procedure-heavy process that makes it very difficult to remove people, which is why the involuntary separation rate at the federal government and most state governments is many multiples lower than the private sector.So, you would love to get me off your team because I'm abysmal. But you have no stomach for going through this whole process and I'm going to fight it. I'm ornery and contrarian and will drag this fight out. In practice, what do managers in the federal government do with their poor performers?I always heard about this growing up. There's the windowless office in the basement without a phone, or now an internet connection. You place someone down there, hope they get the message, and sooner or later they leave. But for plenty of people in America, that's the dream job. You just get to sit and nobody bothers you for eight hours. You punch in at 9 and punch out at 5, and that's your day. "Great. I'll collect that salary for another 10 years." But generally you just try to make life unpleasant for that person.Public sector collective bargaining in the US is new. I tend to think of it as just how the civil service works. But until about 50 years ago, there was no collective bargaining in the public sector.At the state level, it started with Wisconsin at the end of the 1950s. There were famous local government reforms beginning with the Little Wagner Act [signed in 1958] in New York City. Senator Robert Wagner had created the National Labor Relations Board. His son Robert F. Wagner Jr., mayor of New York, created the first US collective bargaining system at the local level in the ‘60s. In ‘62, John F. Kennedy issued an executive order which said, "We're going to deal officially with public sector unions,” but it was all informal and non-statutory.It wasn't until Title VII of the 1978 Civil Service Reform Act that unions had a formal, statutory role in our federal service system. This is shockingly new. To some extent, that was the great loss to many civil service reformers in ‘78. They wanted to get through a lot of these other big reforms about hiring and firing, but they gave up on the unions to try to get those. Some people think that exception swallowed the rest of the rules. The union power that was garnered in ‘78 overcame the other reforms people hoped to accomplish. Soon, you had the majority of the federal workforce subject to collective bargaining.But that's changing now too. Part of that Civil Service Reform Act said, “If your position is in a national security-related position, the president can determine it's not subject to collective bargaining.” Trump and the OPM have basically said, “Most positions in the federal government are national security-related, and therefore we're going to declare them off-limits to collective bargaining.” Some people say that sounds absurd. But 60% of the civilian civil service workforce is the Department of Defense, Veterans Affairs, and the Department of Homeland Security. I am not someone who tries to go too easy on this crowd. I think there's a heck of a lot that needs to be reformed. But it's also worth remembering that the majority of the civil service workforce are in these three agencies that Republicans tend to like a lot.Now, whether people like Veterans Affairs is more of an open question. We have some particular laws there about opening up processes after the scandals in the 2010s about waiting lists and hospitals. You had veterans hospitals saying, "We're meeting these standards for getting veterans in the door for these waiting lists." But they were straight-up lying about those standards. Many people who were on these lists waiting for months to see a doctor died in the interim, some from causes that could have been treated had they seen a VA doctor. That led to Congress doing big reforms in the VA in 2014 and 2017, precisely because everyone realized this is a problem.So, Trump has put out these executive orders stopping collective bargaining in all of these agencies that touch national security. Some of those, like the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), seem like a tough sell. I guess that, if you want to dig a mine and the Chinese are trying to dig their own mine and we want the mine to go quickly without the EPA pettifogging it, maybe. But the core ones are pretty solid. So far the courts have upheld the executive order to go in place. So collective bargaining there could be reformed.But in the rest of the government, there are these very extreme, long collective bargaining agreements between agencies and their unions. I've hit on the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) as one that's had pretty extensive bargaining with its union. When we created the TSA to supervise airport security, a lot of people said, "We need a crème de la crème to supervise airports after 9/11. We want to keep this out of union hands, because we know unions are going to make it difficult to move people around." The Obama administration said, "Nope, we're going to negotiate with the union." Now you have these huge negotiations with the unions about parking spots, hours of employment, uniforms, and everything under the sun. That makes it hard for managers in the TSA to decide when people should go where or what they should do.One thing we've talked about on Statecraft in past episodes — for instance, with John Kamensky, who was a pivotal figure in the Clinton-Gore reforms — was this relationship between government employees and “Beltway Bandits”: the contractors who do jobs you might think of as civil service jobs. One critique of that ‘90s Clinton-Gore push, “Reinventing Government,” was that although they shrank the size of the civil service on paper, the number of contractors employed by the federal government ballooned to fill that void. They did not meaningfully reduce the total number of people being paid by the federal government. Talk to me about the relationship between the civil service reform that you'd like to see and this army of folks who are not formally employees.Every government service is a combination of public employees and inputs, and private employees and inputs. There's never a single thing the government does — federal, state, or local — that doesn't involve inputs from the private sector. That could be as simple as the uniforms for the janitors. Even if you have a publicly employed janitor, who buys the mop? You're not manufacturing the mops.I understand the critique that the excessive focus on full-time employees in the 1990s led to contracting out some positions that could be done directly by the government. But I think that misses how much of the government can and should be contracted out. The basic Office of Management and Budget (OMB) statute [OMB Circular No. A-76] defining what is an essential government duty should still be the dividing line. What does the government have to do, because that is the public overseeing a process? Versus, what can the private sector just do itself?I always cite Stephen Goldsmith, the old mayor of Indianapolis. He proposed what he called the Yellow Pages test. If you open the Yellow Pages [phone directory] and three businesses do that business, the government should not be in that business. There's three garbage haulers out there. Instead of having a formal government garbage-hauling department, just contract out the garbage.With the internet, you should have a lot more opportunities to contract stuff out. I think that is generally good, and we should not have the federal government going about a lot of the day-to-day procedural things that don't require public input. What a lot of people didn't recognize is how much pressure that's going to put on government contracting officers at the federal level. Last time I checked there were 40,000 contracting officers. They have a lot of power. In the most recent year for which we have data, there were $750 billion in federal contracts. This is a substantial part of our economy. If you total state and local, we're talking almost 10% of our whole economy goes through government contracts. This is mind-boggling. In the public policy world, we should all be spending about 10% of our time thinking about contracting.One of the things I think everyone recognized is that contractors should have more authority. Some of the reform that happened with people like [Steven] Kelman — who was the Office of Federal Procurement Policy head in the ‘90s under Clinton — was, "We need to give these people more authority to just take a credit card and go buy a sheaf of paper if that's what they need. And we need more authority to get contract bids out appropriately.”The same message that animates civil service reform should animate these contracting discussions. The goal should be setting clear goals that you want — for either a civil servant or a contractor — and then giving that person the discretion to meet them. If you make the civil service more stultified, or make pay compression more extreme, you're going to have to contract more stuff out.People talk about the General Schedule [pay scale], but we haven't talked about the Federal Wage Schedule system at all, which is the blue-collar system that encompasses about 200,000 federal employees. Pay compression means those guys get paid really well. That means some managers rightfully think, "I'd like to have full-time supervision over some role, but I would rather contract it out, because I can get it a heck of a lot cheaper."There's a continuous relationship: If we make the civil service more stultified, we're going to push contracting out into more areas where maybe it wouldn't be appropriate. But a lot of things are always going to be appropriate to contract out. That means we need to give contracting officers and the people overseeing contracts a lot of discretion to carry out their missions, and not a lot of oversight from the Government Accountability Office or the courts about their bids, just like we shouldn't give OPM excess input into the civil service hiring process.This is a theme I keep harping on, on Statecraft. It's counterintuitive from a reformer's perspective, but it's true: if you want these processes to function better, you're going to have to stop nitpicking. You're going to have to ease up on the throttle and let people make their own decisions, even when sometimes you're not going to agree with them.This is a tension that's obviously happening in this administration. You've seen some clear interest in decentralization, and you've seen some centralization. In both the contract and the civil service sphere, the goal for the central agencies should be giving as many options as possible to the local managers, making sure they don't go extremely off the rails, but then giving those local managers and contracting officials the ability to make their own choices. The General Services Administration (GSA) under this administration is doing a lot of government-wide acquisition contracts. “We establish a contract for the whole government in the GSA. Usually you, the local manager, are not required to use that contract if you want computer services or whatever, but it's an option for you.”OPM should take a similar role. "Here's the system we have set up. You can take that and use it as you want. It's here for you, but it doesn't have to be used, because you might have some very particular hiring decisions to make.” Just like there shouldn't be one contracting decision that decides how we buy both a sheaf of computer paper and an aircraft carrier, there shouldn't be one hiring and firing process for a janitor and a nuclear physicist. That can't be a centralized process, because the very nature of human life is that there's an infinitude of possibilities that you need to allow for, and that means some amount of decentralization.I had an argument online recently about New York City's “buy local” requirement for certain procurement contracts. When they want to build these big public toilets in New York City, they have to source all the toilet parts from within the state, even if they're $200,000 cheaper in Portland, Oregon.I think it's crazy to ask procurement and contracting to solve all your policy problems. Procurement can't be about keeping a healthy local toilet parts industry. You just need to procure the toilet.This is another area where you see similar overlap in some of the civil service and contracting issues. A lot of cities have residency requirements for many of their positions. If you work for the city, you have to live inside the city. In New York, that means you've got a lot of police officers living on Staten Island, or right on the line of the north side of the Bronx, where they're inches away from Westchester. That drives up costs, and limits your population of potential employees.One of the most amazing things to me about the Biden Bipartisan Infrastructure Law was that it encouraged contracting officers to use residency requirements: “You should try to localize your hiring and contracting into certain areas.” On a national level, that cancels out. If both Wyoming and Wisconsin use residency requirements, the net effect is not more people hired from one of those states! So often, people expect the civil service and contracting to solve all of our ills and to point the way forward for the rest of the economy on discrimination, hiring, pay, et cetera. That just leads to, by definition, government being a lot more expensive than the private sector.Over the next three and a half years, what would you like to see the administration do on civil service reform that they haven't already taken up?I think some of the broad-scale layoffs, which seem to be slowing down, were counterproductive. I do think that their ability to achieve their ends was limited by the nature of the reduction-in-force regulations, which made them more counterproductive than they had to be. That's the situation they inherited. But that didn't mean you had to lay off a lot of people without considering the particular jobs they were doing now.And hiring quite a few of them back.Yeah. There are also debates obviously, within the administration, between DOGE and Russ Vought [director of the OMB] and some others on this. Some things, like the Schedule Policy/Career — which is the revival of Schedule F in the first Trump administration — are largely a step in the right direction. Counter to some of the critics, it says, “You can remove someone if they're in a policymaking position, just like if they were completely at-will. But you still have to hire from the typical civil service system.” So, for those concerned about politicization, that doesn't undermine that, because they can't just pick someone from the party system to put in there. I think that's good.They recently had a suitability requirement rule that I think moved in the right direction. That says, “If someone's not suitable for the workforce, there are other ways to remove them besides the typical procedures.” The ideal system is going to require some congressional input: it's to have a decentralization of hiring authority to individual managers. Which means the OPM — now under Scott Kupor, who has finally been confirmed — saying, "The OPM is here to assist you, federal managers. Make sure you stay within the broad lanes of what the administration's trying to accomplish. But once we give you your general goals, we're going to trust you to do that, including hiring.”I've mentioned it a few times, but part of the Chance to Compete Act — which was mentioned in one of Trump's Day One executive orders, people forget about this — was saying, “Implement the Chance to Compete Act to the maximum extent of the law.” Bring more subject-matter expertise into the hiring process, allow more discretion for managers and input into the hiring process. I think carrying that bipartisan reform out is going to be a big step, but it's going to take a lot more work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.statecraft.pub

Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest Dion Lack Courtney Haynes This Week We Discuss Get An Alert When Your Parents Smash vs They Get One When You Smash Pee Your Pants In Public Once A Week vs Poop Yourself In Private Twice A Week Go On A Date & Not Be Able To See vs Not Be Able To Speak

SHOW NOTES Episode 067 • August 18, 2025     FIRST STRAIN   News ‘n' Notes:   • DCI Finals recap   www.dci.org/scores/final-scores/2025-dci-all-age-class-championships/   www.drumcorpsplanet.com/2025/08/scores-2025-dci-open-class-world-championship-finals/   www.dci.org/scores/final-scores/2025-dci-world-championship-finals/     SECOND STRAIN   Topic: Artificial intelligence, musical creation … and podcasts   www.facebook.com/SeleneKallanWriter/posts/pfbid02tfnBxuD3Wr5ntPf9mFEYkWpEMuX9FAK5QbduAjGTkpi5fDFaEzQ8Z8dhmis2bKabl   www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWpg1RmzAbc     TRIO   This episode's interview guest: MIKE JOLIN   www.linkedin.com/in/michaelpjolin/   www.facebook.com/88thArmyBand     DOGFIGHT   Internet Rabbit Hole: Extra-musical benefits of music in schools VERSUS art for art's sake   www.facebook.com/mercywithgraces.cabural/posts/24729885786618477/     CODA   Topic: Music Venn diagram   pwuth.blogspot.com/2015/08/better-person-better-musician-responses.html     FOLLOW US!   BandWagon RSS feed: feed.podbean.com/heyband/feed.xml BandWagon website: heyband.podbean.com BandWagon on Facebook: facebook.com/profile.php?id=61555170345309 BandWagon on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rhammerton1 BandWagon on BlueSky: bsky.app/profile/heybandwagon.bsky.social Rob (“HammertonMedia”) on Facebook: facebook.com/HammertonMedia   SUBSCRIBE TO BANDWAGON!   www.podbean.com/site/podcatcher/index/blog/eg706GUVzixV   WE GOT MERCH!   Visit www.teepublic.com/user/bandwagon-with-rob-hammerton -or- go to teepublic.com and search “bandwagon”   SEND US YOUR FEEDBACK!   Email: heybandwagon@yahoo.com Voicemail: speakpipe.com/HeyBandWagon

Podcast for a deep examination into the career and life choices of Eddie Murphy & Jim Carrey. Fellow podcaster Valerie Royer returns to the show to talk about another third film in a franchise. Patrick and Joe investigate the cause of this pattern and believe the number 23 to be involved. Lev decides to go to a rave as research for this episode. What did his fact-finding mission unearth? Find out on this week's episode of 'What the Hell Happened to Them?' Email the cast at whathappenedtothem@gmail.com Disclaimer: This episode was recorded in August 2025. References may feel confusing and/or dated unusually quickly. 'Shrek the Third' is available on DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K (also you can get the Shrek quad-pack if you're an addict): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ELI90R0/ Music from "All Star Cover in Classical Latin" by The Miracle Aligner   Artwork from BJ West   quixotic, united, skeyhill, vekeman, murphy, carrey, versus, vs, shrek, third, three, 3, banderas, diaz, transylvania, princess, everett, idle, latin, rave, trolls

In this episode, we tackle the often-taboo topic of…money. Specifically, money blocks – those pesky limiting beliefs that can hold us back in business. We share our personal experiences with money narratives that shaped our views on wealth and success. From feeling guilty about charging for work we love, to the fear of being perceived as "slimy" when selling, we get real about how these beliefs can impact our businesses. You'll hear us discuss the importance of recognizing these narratives and how they can affect your mindset and performance. If you've ever felt stuck in your relationship with money or unsure about how to confidently ask for what you deserve, this episode is for you! Join us as we unpack these themes and encourage you to check in on your own money mindset. Let's break those blocks together!  

What does compassionate action feel like to you? This week we lean into the consciousness of RESOURCING ourselves as we go through the day. Versus depleting. It's a slight recaibration and I believe so much energy lives here. Unlocking the hidden potential with you,  Angela

Podcast for a deep examination into the career and life choices of Eddie Murphy & Jim Carrey. The tables have turned on Patrick when Joe calls him out for his own blasphemy. Patrick wants to atone, but the cursed numbers are threatening what remains of his soul. Lev realizes his math skills aren't as good as he thought. Will he go to night school to improve his arithmetic? Find out on this week's episode of 'What the Hell Happened to Them?' Email the cast at whathappenedtothem@gmail.com Disclaimer: This episode was recorded in August 2025. References may feel confusing and/or dated unusually quickly. 'The Number 23' is available on DVD, Blu-ray, and HD DVD (if you believe in those): https://www.amazon.com/Number-23-Blu-ray-Jim-Carrey/dp/B002CVQAXQ/ Music from "Primacy of Numbers" by Philip Glass   Artwork from BJ West   quixotic, united, skeyhill, vekeman, murphy, carrey, versus, vs, number, 23, twenty, three, madsen, conspiracy, carey, diaz, huston, schumacher

Welcome to The Force Unscripted Podcast, where Star Wars fans share unfiltered discussions, fresh insights, and genuine camaraderie in exploring the galaxy far, far away. Tune in weekly for authentic conversations that celebrate the timeless appeal of Star Wars. May the Force be with you on this adventure!------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Come visit our website and leave us a review, voice note or topics you may want discussed on the show!The Force Unscripted Website------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Be sure to follow us any where you want to get your podcast fix, as well as on Twitter (formerly known as X) where we post updates about the podcast and on Twitch, where we do our live recordings for the podcast!LinkTreeTwitter (Formerly Known As X)Twitch------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------In this episode of "Versus", catch the battle of Mara Jade Skywalker versus Emperor Palpatine between Wen'shi and Exotic.

En este capitulo inauguramos una nueva sección muy larga llamada “Versus” (nombre en proceso) donde veremos quién tiene las mejores películas del mundo de los cómics, la batalla será entre Avengers: Endgame, Thor: Love & Thunder y Los 4 Fantásticos contra Batman: El Caballero de la Noche, El Escuadrón Su!c!d4 y Superman de 2025. ¿Quién quedará campeón de este primer certamen? ¡Descúbrelo! #TrollywoodPodcast  #Podcast #Cine  #Hollywood #Curiosidades

Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest Dion Lack Brandi Denise John Grimes This Week We Discuss One Wish Granted Today vs 5 Wishes Granted In A Year Genius Level Intelligence vs Be A Musical Savant  Live Somewhere With The Most Extreme Seasons vs 98 Degree Location Daily S/o To Our Sponsors Ava App Credit Buildig App Get Better Rates & Pay Off Bills Faster Download The Ava App Today Use Promo: SQUADD

Podcast for a deep examination into the career and life choices of Eddie Murphy & Jim Carrey. Joe betrays the show in the most inhumane way possible. Patrick worries his milkshakes aren't alluring enough and so takes dance lessons from Lev. Is he really a world champion ballroom dancer? Find out on this week's episode of 'What the Hell Happened to Them?' Email the cast at whathappenedtothem@gmail.com Disclaimer: This episode was recorded in July 2025. References may feel confusing and/or dated unusually quickly. 'Norbit' is available on DVD, Blu-ray, and multi(ple)-format: https://www.amazon.com/Norbit-Blu-ray-Eddie-Murphy/dp/B01N0QLNOI/ Music from "Milkshake Brings All the Boys to the Yard" by Damielou Shavelle   Artwork from BJ West   quixotic, united, skeyhill, vekeman, murphy, carrey, versus, vs, norbit, newton, rasputia, racist, crewes, carey, makeup, make-up, youtube, fat, plus, sized

Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest KevOnStage Kevin Tate Donny Comedy This Week We Discuss Fight A Waffle House Employee vs 3 Rounds At Slap Challenge Get In Heaven On RPS vs Coin Flip Save Two Random New Borns vs A Family Member You Don't Like

Ovagen Group Limited, an innovation-led Irish biotech, has announced groundbreaking results from a Yellow Fever virus yield study that could transform the economics of global vaccine manufacturing. Conducted at The Pirbright Institute (UK), a world-renowned centre tackling viral diseases of livestock, the comparative study showed that Ovagen's Germ Free embryonated chicken eggs delivered up to 7,600 doses of yellow fever virus 17D per egg compared to just 422 doses per Specified Pathogen-Free (SPF) Egg using current industry standards. With a current global shortfall of 60 million yellow fever vaccines per year, Ovagen's technology can help scale up production of yellow fever vaccine production by reducing reliance on key raw material inputs such as SPF eggs, antibiotics, and downstream processing resources. More than 140,000 eggs would be required to satisfy the current global shortfall using current industry standards compared with just 7,894 eggs using Ovagen's technology. The improved yield also dramatically reduces the volume of antibiotics typically required in conventional egg-based manufacturing, helping to mitigate risks associated with antimicrobial resistance and lowering overall production costs. Speaking about the results of the study, Dr. Catherine Caulfield, CEO of Ovagen said: "What we have developed isn't incremental, it's a complete rethink of the vaccine manufacturing process. Our germ free egg platform eliminates bacterial contamination and reduces the need for antibiotics in vaccine production, while delivering significantly higher viral yield. This is high-impact science with high-value commercial outcomes." The results of the Pirbright Institute study using Ovagen's technology demonstrated that: Ovagen Germ Free eggs resulted in 7,606 doses of Yellow Fever vaccine per egg VERSUS 6 doses & 422 doses per SPF egg, respectively, from two leading SPF egg suppliers Up to a 5-fold lower interferon beta response, boosting viral replication. The technology offers immediate scalability and significant margins for manufacturers, all while reducing waste and environmental impact. For public health systems and vaccine developers alike, it enables faster response times, lower costs, and increased resilience in the face of a public health crisis. Backed by Enterprise Ireland, Ovagen represents a standout opportunity in Europe's deep tech and biotech sectors. With growing global demand for scalable, clean, and efficient vaccine platforms, the company is now positioned for rapid international growth. Tom Cusack, Head of Industrial & Life Sciences at Enterprise Ireland, said: "Enterprise Ireland is proud to support Ovagen as they continue to scale their innovation and ambition. Their germ-free egg technology shows real potential to drive greater efficiency in vaccine manufacturing, and it's encouraging to see this level of innovation emerging from the West of Ireland. Ovagen's progress highlights the strength of Ireland's biotech sector and the impact that Irish companies can have on global health challenges." Ovagen was founded with the ambitious goal of developing the world's first commercially viable germ-free egg production system for use in biopharmaceutical manufacturing. Having secured over €21 million in funding through a mix of private investment, promoter funds, VC, EU research grants, and EIC Accelerator backing, the company has developed a state-of-the-art facility, secured global patent protection, sales traction and validated significantly higher viral yields compared to industry-standard SPF eggs. See more stories here. More about Irish Tech News Irish Tech News are Ireland's No. 1 Online Tech Publication and often Ireland's No.1 Tech Podcast too. You can find hundreds of fantastic previous episodes and subscribe using whatever platform you like via our Anchor.fm page here: https://anchor.fm/irish-tech-news If you'd like to be featured in an upcoming Podcast email us at Simon@IrishTechNews.ie now to disc...

Herkus Kunčius. „Nepasigailėti Dušanskio“. Išleido leidykla „Versus aureus“.Modernistinės pakraipos lietuvių autorius, užsivertė nepakeliamą naštą – perrašyti Gerąją Naujieną pagal Partijos Programą. Šis romanas – farsas, žlungančių vertybių ir likimų misterija – slepia skaudžią prasmę. Visuomet žmonių istorija yra žaizda, kurią draskome ideologijomis ir tikėjimais, dėl menkos savo egzistencijos pamiršę būtį. Knygos ištraukas skaito aktorius Vytautas Rumšas.

Herkus Kunčius. „Nepasigailėti Dušanskio“. Išleido leidykla „Versus aureus“.Modernistinės pakraipos lietuvių autorius, užsivertė nepakeliamą naštą – perrašyti Gerąją Naujieną pagal Partijos Programą. Šis romanas – farsas, žlungančių vertybių ir likimų misterija – slepia skaudžią prasmę. Visuomet žmonių istorija yra žaizda, kurią draskome ideologijomis ir tikėjimais, dėl menkos savo egzistencijos pamiršę būtį. Knygos ištraukas skaito aktorius Vytautas Rumšas.

Margot McNaull didn't plan to be a jewelry designer, but creating her own engagement ring sparked a mission to empower women through fine jewelry. She joins Lesley Logan to explore self-worth, the symbolism of rings, and why you don't need permission to craft heirlooms that celebrate your life. Margot's story will inspire you to see jewelry as a bold declaration of who you are.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:What sparked Margot's shift from consumer to jewelry designer.What she's learned about self-worth through her own life journey.The psychological barrier of asking permission to invest in yourself.How the Ring Transformations program helps women reclaim their style.Why crafting heirlooms celebrates the important moments in your life.Episode References/Links:Stór by Margot Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/storbymargotStór by Margot Website - https://www.storbymargot.com Margot McNaull's Website - https://www.margotmcnaull.comGuest Bio:Margot McNaull is the founder of Legacy – the luxury ring experience where she empowers women to live a life of legacy. With nearly ten years in the fine jewelry industry and having worked closely with thousands of women, I've witnessed firsthand the transformative moment when a woman finds the ring she's always dreamed of. Margot started her jewelry design journey in the wedding world, collaborating with countless couples to honor and celebrate a pivotal milestone. However, she soon realized that the ring held a deeper significance. It symbolized a moment, a longing—a reflection of the woman who wore it, beyond just a gift from someone else. Margot's passion quickly deepened as she realized her desire to serve every woman who crossed her path. She wanted each one to feel represented in the ring design, to recognize their worth, and to know that every creation was inspired by them. Inspired by this vision, came the Legacy Experience. (https://margotmcnaull.com/legacy) If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/ Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Margot McNaull 0:00  You deserve something that you truly love and truly honors who you are and what you want every day. And so I just think, if you do that for yourself first, before getting into a wedding ring, you're not going to compromise on that wedding ring either. You're going to know what you're doing. Lesley Logan 0:15  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Lesley Logan 0:58  Hello, Be It babe. How are you? We're going to talk about a topic that you might not think has anything to do with being it until you see it. We're talking about jewelry. We're talking about rings. We're going to talk about buying the ring for you, right? And if you're like, oh that, I don't need to do that right now, I would strongly encourage you to listen to it. I think we had a great discussion about worthiness and permission versus discussion. And my single ladies like, what are we waiting for? Right? Why are we waiting for a person to come to our life put a ring on that finger? So it was really fun. It's really powerful. And I know when you see Margot McNaull's Instagram and see all the different ways that she designs rings, I think you'll be inspired to really create your own legacy with that. So here is Margot McNaull. Lesley Logan 0:58  All right, Be It babe, this is really fun. This is a conversation I've been wanting to have for a really long time ever since I met our guest today. It's going to be fun. We've never talked about jewelry and diamonds and worthiness to buy our own. So, Margot McNaull, thank you so much for being here. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you rock at?Margot McNaull 1:55  Absolutely, thanks for having me. So I'm Margot. I started a fine jewelry company about 10 years ago, and I went straight into a big need I saw on the market, which was cookie cutter jewelry pieces and mass produced jewelry pieces, which I absolutely hated. And I, actually, when I was about to get engaged, now, I guess that's like 13 years ago now, I'm getting old.Lesley Logan 2:20  No, not at all. No, because I, I will be married this year, 10 years, and then I'm not getting old yet. Margot McNaull 2:25  There you go. We're not, we're young, we're young. But yeah, I said to my then boyfriend, I said, I don't want you to buy me a ring in North America. I'm Canadian, so we were in Canada. I said, don't buy me a ring in Canada. I want to go to India. I want to buy a ring. And he's like, okay, you know, he doesn't know anything, but he was happy to let me choose because he knew he could never. So we went to India, designed my ring, and I had the most special experience, because I got to select everything myself. And for, you know, listeners who don't know, India is like the Mecca of jewelry. That's where it all flows from. They cut most of the diamonds in the world. They're the experts. So by saying India, we're not saying, like, you know, it's not cheapening anything. It's actually, they value jewelry so much that they, they don't even manufacture 10 karat gold. They don't think that's gold. So, yeah, it's fascinating. So I go there, design it. I'm like, in love with the process, and then I come back and I see all these cookie cutter pieces, and I wanted women to have the experience I had, and that's what actually made me start the business. I was I was not in this at all. I didn't plan to be in it. My own engagement ring design led me to this, and that's how I started in the jewelry world.Lesley Logan 3:38  I mean, what a cool, first of all, I think what a great story to have together with your just your jewelry, your ring alone. I think that there is, there is so much around the ring that should have a good story, and then for you to, like, go into this business after that, having no experience like you went to school for, like, metal making or like, what did, you know what I mean, like, were you nervous about it? Did you, did it feel like a big learning curve? What was the, what was it like to go from like, okay, I designed my own ring, but now I've got to design for other people, so now I'm ordering for like, how was that? How did you do that? How was that journey? Margot McNaull 4:16  Yeah, that was a really intense journey, because it really brought out the self-doubt in me. And the best way to explain what I do to people is it's like the interior designer coming in and making it beautiful after the architect, you know, put up the house. So I'm a little bit of both. I create the structure, I design the structure and how it's going to look, but the what makes our rings and jewelry so unique is actually the little tweaks that I make. It's the, it's, you know, how I see it, and you don't actually need to be a goldsmith for that. And I, what I realize now further along in, is I actually have something very rare and unique. And there are a lot of metal workers out there, and there are a lot of people making jewelry out there that don't have that eye and don't have that ability to make something so like, you know, tweak it in just a way. Like, just today, I flipped the three stone ring, pretty unique custom ring for a client who happens to be a wedding photographer. So of course, she's like, pretty picky about what she wants. Lesley Logan 5:07  Because she's seen it all. She's seen everything. Margot McNaull 5:19  Exactly. So she's like, I do not want that. So she's doing this very cool, unique ring. And I just took, I just flipped it. So all I did was like, go one I saw it I'm like, no, I don't love it. Something's wrong. And I flipped it. And I was like, wow. So these are the little things that I realized a long, you know, it took me a long time to overcome the self-doubt, because I would look around, I would feel like I don't know anything. I don't know what I'm doing, but I think all of that stuff actually made me better at it. But yes, it was a very intense emotional learning curve, I would say. Lesley Logan 5:49  Yeah, because I think like, so here's, this is how I'm going to equate it to my life. Like, I booked commercials and gigs in in L.A. before I took a commercial acting class. Soon as I took the commercial acting class, I went on a string of, like, zero callbacks, and I finally had to go, my agent was like, girl, what is going on? You booked a bunch of stuff before you had any skill, and we gave you skill, and now you suck. And I was, that's how they they actually say things more meaner and more direct. And I said, I said, I think that the class screwed me up. I think I started thinking I had to do it in this form you lay it way when I was just being myself before with what was going on. So I'm just gonna forget everything gal taught me and try again. And I booked a couple more gigs. And then I was like, I don't actually really like this, so I'm gonna quit, but, but, like, I think that, you know, we can tell ourselves a story that we have to, oh, I want to start a jewelry business now. I need to go and take all these jewelry classes, and actually, by you owning that you see, like owning your own eye, and not putting about, like, putting your worthiness on the education or the history of jewelry-making by you just owning what your own skill sets were from your own intuition is what makes you so unique and what makes your experience so unique. Margot McNaull 7:12  Absolutely, it, once you can get there, it's awesome, but, I mean, I can, I know a lot of women struggle with this. I'm right there with you, like, you know, the learning curve and the doubt and overcoming all of that is very difficult. I think it's why a lot of people quit in business as well.Lesley Logan 7:28  Yeah, how did, so, do you, do you remember what your tools were to overcome it? Was it just like deep therapy? Was it journaling? Like, what?Margot McNaull 7:36  Honestly, great question. I feel like it took me a long time, because maybe I didn't implement like, I probably could have had some better tools and done it faster. But what it took me towards, and, you know, I feel like in 10 more years, I'm going to have this amazing story to share about what I'm just entering right now. But when I just started, so I went right into the wedding side of things. I was like, I want to work with engaged couples. Now I'm way more excited, not way more. I love working with women. So now we've really tailored the women, whether it is a woman designing her engagement ring,woman designing something for herself. But back then, I was all wedding, so I went into it thinking, I'm going to make a really cool experience for women to feel special that they have this unique piece that's theirs. The jewelry company is called Stór by Margot, which is a Gaelic word, S-T-O-R which is, my treasure. I wanted them to feel like it was their treasure and it wasn't just another piece from the mall that three other women are wearing at the same time. So I go into that, but it actually completely knocks me off my feet as I'm going through my own journey of self-doubt and realizing, you know, self-worth because it there's actually a really deep psychological issue that appears when women are looking at jewelry and talking to you about jewelry, and it is that they don't feel like they're worthy of it. And this is something that then I had to go into and realize, where do I feel, like, where do I stand? Where's my, how do I feel about my worth? Pretty low. And this is like, years into being married. Have a great husband, great family, but those things aren't going to make you feel worthy. They might help you feel good, but the only person who's going to make you feel worthy is you. And that's why I feel like it took me a really long time to kind of get out of that, but I think it brought me to this conversation, which is exciting, and I'm and I want to spend kind of the rest of my life doing is, you know, talking to women about how worthy they are. And I guess that's the benefit of the slow journey just uncovering. And like I said, I just wanted women to feel happy and excited. And now I see all of the nuances that you should see in my appointments. You can see the in the relational interactions and the doubts and the hesitations. You know. Versus the women who are like in and they're like, this is what I want. I'm getting it. I know I'm strong and but even those women have their moments, right, where you can see through it and but all of it is, I think, how you feel about yourself. Lesley Logan 10:13  Yeah, I, 100% I so agree. I, thank you for sharing that. I think it is. I used to work at a jewelry store. And my jewelry store was, it wasn't like just diamonds. It was more like unique ways of working with diamonds and stones. And so some of our designers, like Kathy Waterman, who, like, makes platinum or 22 karat gold, it looks like ivy that makes the shape of a heart, and this really unique stuff. So, like, even though she would make a few of those pieces, it felt very unique. And so it was really fun. But I would watch women come in by themselves and go, oh, this is a piece that makes me feel so special. And then they might come with their partner or a friend or a family member, and that person's interpret, like, they would almost change how they like something based on if that person would think they were spending too much money, or you're never gonna wear it, or, you know, like that, you can make that far cheaper, like all these different things from the other person's story. And then there'd be the women who came and go, I really love this. They'd write it down. The husband just come in, go, she wants that. That's gonna make her happy. That's exactly, like, so you could see these different relationships. And because I worked at that store for so long, I saw those relationships evolve together or evolve apart, you know, because, and it was really the more she felt firm at what she wanted, and the more it's not like, and I don't mean it's like, he buys her whatever she wants, or she buys for herself whatever, but like, the more confident she was, and the more, the more the partner validated that confidence and validate what they wanted, that, that actually allowed those relationships to be stronger together. And it was just really cool to watch. So my favorite people were the ones that didn't wait for someone to buy it for them, the ones they bought it for themselves. So I want to talk about that, because I know that's where your business has evolved. And our mutual friend, Lauren Zoeller, who's been on the show before, y'all, she designed a piece with you, and I really enjoyed the story of why she got that piece. So can we talk a little bit about why, why you're so excited about women mining their own diamond and like not waiting for the one ring with the one person that.Margot McNaull 12:23  So true. Okay, I love this topic so much. And like I said, our business, there's part of our business that's always going to be rooted in that one ring, because it's, it's a specialty. But where I am personally moving towards is this legacy experience of women designing a piece for themselves, and this is all rooted in what we just talked about. And the concept of the experience is we're going to walk through your own personal journey, and we're going to take all of the tidbits and pieces out of that, and I'm going to do my thing and put that into your final piece, you know, which, which I do think most of the time is going to be a ring, because the main, the good thing about a ring is you see it, right? Because you're using your hands, you're looking at it. It's a reminder, versus a necklace. You don't see that much yourself, right, unless you're looking in the mirror. So there's something about a ring that is so powerful, and it's also seems to be the thing that's always passed down, right? So creating a legacy beyond just something that you know is going to be passed down is almost honoring your journey. And what do you want to do with your life, and what you know, what story do you want to leave at the end, and just encouraging and honoring women to walk through that process and not be afraid to do that, and not like you said, tame themselves because they don't think that they're worthy to do it, or the opinion of someone else. And so what was really great about doing that with Lauren is, you know, she knows, she knows what she wants, she, she's not letting somebody else come in there and tell her what to do. And we got to create this beautiful moment of this big transition in her life, of a ring that actually goes back and the story that came out when we were talking together was just how important her grandmother was in her life, and then we got to put that into the final touches of her ring, and it's going to be her symbol forever, of her mission and how she wants to honor her grandmother. And her grandmother almost called that out in her life when she was younger, and she didn't even know what that meant at the time. So this whole experience of and then working like, I love what you said, because most people haven't worked at a jewelry store, when someone can come in and give themselves permission to just do what they want is a completely different experience and outcome. And going ahead and saying, I deserve it. I want to design my own piece. You know, whether it's a legacy experience, whether you just come one on one, say, I'm finally going to do the thing I wanted to do is very empowering. And there is something about jewelry that I mean, jewelry is one of the only things that lasts, if you think about it, right. There's something about gold and stones and where they come from, and they, they last forever, yeah, and it's really special. Lesley Logan 15:02  Yeah. I think, like, I think that's one of the things, like, what I love about what you're doing, why I wanted to talk with you on the show, is, like, we have so many women listeners. Some of them are in a wonderful relationship, some of them are on their own, and they're, as someone who has a lot of, a lot of amazing jewelry, and I get to look at it. I walk into my room all the time. I wear as many rings as possible because I just, it reminds me of who I am, but also like, yes, there is something that I do. I have no children, but I do hope that someday, you know, when I'm not here for this earth, people will will use my jewelry in different ways, or it will remind them of me. But there's something about having in my jewelry box, I have, like, my grandmother's engagement ring, and I have my father's wedding band. I have these things, and I like want to do something with them at some point someday. But there's just something about, like, we have these things that it has that memory. And if you can create something that is from you, that has all of your worthiness, and then you put it on your finger, and you get to look at it every day. It's like a symbol of reminding of who you are and the worthiness that you have. And I think it can be really easy. We've a lot of people have been raised in material possessions are like a waste of time, but actually, like, sometimes it's the only memory we have of somebody like having, like having built that in and put that together like you did with Lauren, like having that that grandmother's touch inside, kind of brings that legacy around and brings that worthiness, and like you're putting them together, I will say this quick little story. It has nothing to do with diamonds, but does have to do with the ring. We're recording this during the L.A. fires, and on my Instagram the other day the these firefighters were like searching this realist come up, this firefighters are searching in this house for another firefighter. His house burned down while he was fighting someone else, the fire somewhere else, his house burned down, and they found his wedding ring because he wasn't wearing it when he was fighting the fires. He left it at home. And they figured out what part of the house it might be at, and they search through the rubble, and they pull out this ring. And it was so emotional, because, like, they've lost everything, right? They have nothing, but they do have that. And it's just, I'm crying now because, like, even though it's not their, a diamond ring, it's this piece, it's like, gives them some sort of, like, semblance of stability and hope and memories and all that stuff that encompasses it. So I, I really do think that jewelry can have so much more than a material possession. It can have all of you, your history, your life, your journey into a piece. Lesley Logan 17:32  Absolutely, that's such a beautiful story, especially because, oh my goodness, especially because that's a miracle, because it should have melted. So that's kind of insane.Lesley Logan 17:40  Kind of insane, that, like, it should have melted it, right, it was like, in the rubble of a house, there's nothing left, and they found this band, and it's fine, and he put it on his finger and like, and he's and he's like, he's like, he's like, what's your wife gonna say? He's like, well, she didn't know I lost it yet. So now I have to tell her, it's found. But so cute, so cute, so special. Margot McNaull 18:03  So cute.Lesley Logan 18:05  So okay, so tell me, tell us a little bit more, because I think that some people may get overwhelmed by the idea of, like, designing a ring and worthiness. Let's talk about like, what, if we were to do that with you what's the process? How do we make it less overwhelming? How do we, how do we and I guess maybe even, like, what are some things that women should go through to even give themselves permission to do this? Maybe that's a better place to start. Margot McNaull 18:29  Okay, I really love that question, because I, there's one thing that we can all really relate to, and that is, you know, there's no, nobody hesitates now, it's they're, you're like, I want that handbag. I'm buying that handbag in six months. Or, you know, I need a Chanel in my closet like it's everyone has permission now to go and buy these very, very extravagant bags, right? Much more expensive ones than that. And there's no question. Nobody says, I'm not worthy of buying an Hermes bag. Right? So they've overcome that hurdle. But when it comes to diamonds, there's something that stops us. And there, and honestly, I talk a lot, obviously I talk about jewelry a lot, and now it bugs me every time it happens, everybody says, oh, I'll tell my partner, I'll tell my husband, I'll ask them for it. And it's, this is still a thing. It's like we don't feel like we have permission to buy it for ourself yet, right? Sure, a $200 silver ring you're gonna buy for yourself. But why, when you're celebrating something so big, do you not feel like I want that eternity band, you know, like I'm buying that for myself. Or even women, my goodness, well, the idea of the push present, it's like they're still not even asking for their push presents, it's like you almost died putting your kid into this world, at least get her the diamond. So, you know it's, it's, it's a permission issue, and so that's the first thing to overcome is think about that and let that sit with you and really think why do I why am I not giving myself permission? Because, sure, the easy way out is it's expensive. I have to think about it. Yeah, of course, there's a lot of things in life that are expensive that you can plan for. There's also ways to do these rings in this jewelry that are very cost-friendly, you know. And my team can help you figure that out. But there's the I think the issue is, there's, there's a stop so there's, there's a permission issue. Lesley Logan 20:26  I think that's a really, what a, you know, I'm a Pilates instructor. I'm not a therapist, and when people move, trauma really leaves by through movement. And so I've had to up level myself in areas of training so that I can spot when that's happening, and not therapies, because I still don't have that license. But also, like, notice when it's just like, leaving the body, and when it's like, hey, you know here, like, how to handle that, right? And you are, like, going to, like, making jewelry, because, like, it was a great experience. And now it's also like, oh, I also have to be able to identify and help a woman go so maybe you should, like, let's talk about why you think that you can't have this yet, like, why you're not worthy of it now. And it's true, like, maybe you do have to go, okay, I am worthy of it, and I need to buy it in a year after I've, like, that's a different story. But, like. Margot McNaull 21:16  Of course. Lesley Logan 21:16  But it I think that there's a habit, and for the single women like, you're not good, you've got it, you've got it. You have one less thing to think about. But as a married person like I was raised in a house where I hear my mom go, I've had to check with my, my husband check with this. And also, by the way, yes, households have budgets. There are things to check on, but also you could also know what your budget is to spend on yourself and you like that should be a thing that's part of a marital household like my, my husband has his money to spend on his things without checking on me. I have my money spent on my things without checking with him. Then we have our money that, you know, if it's going to be in the household, we have to discuss. But there's not permission there. It's a discussion. And I think that's a difference in that, ooh, we just talked that through.Margot McNaull 22:03  That's it. I love that's it. Jewelry is always lands, most of the time, lands on this, I need to ask permission when it really should just be I just really, I just really want them to know I want it, and it's okay, you know. And we'll decide when I'm getting it. It is not a permission. Lesley Logan 22:22  Yeah, and I think, you know, it's really, it's really interesting is, like most partners, I would like to think, I know that that's not all the case in the world that we're living in today, but most partners actually don't want to, don't want to give you permission. They, they, they want you to have what you want. You know, like, I was asking something of Brad, and he's like, you don't need permission to buy it. You just buy it. And I was like, oh, that's right. Where did that come from? How did that come back? How did that come into me? I've never asked before. Like, who did I just hang out with? You know? So, like, so I think, like, it is, I think it's worth evaluating, if you're listening to this and you're like, I can't do I don't know, like, or you're feeling resistance around this, like, I would just ask, like, are you guys having discussions in your relationship around what you'll invest in, or is one person always asking permission, you know, and like, how can we change that? Because I think that that, you know, is worthy of evaluating and putting you know, some time in journaling and discussion into, so.Margot McNaull 23:20  I love that. Lesley Logan 23:21  Okay, so you, let's like, let's go back to the I want all the women who listen to this to feel worthy and also have something that they have chosen for themselves. So you got into this idea of like, she doesn't have, she can, she can get her own ring. And this is like, with, not the marriage ring, not the left hand finger ring, but another finger ring. What is that like? Who is grabbing these? Who did you think of this for? Like, what? Tell me more about it. Maybe I'll have one. I have an empty finger. I have an empty one.Margot McNaull 24:01  I know. I remember meeting you, and I was like, I love her. She loves jewelry. No finger is unadorned. Except maybe the one we have to fill, but you have to do something with the metal from your parents ring (inaudible). Lesley Logan 24:13  Yes, yeah, we'll have to talk about that, yes.Margot McNaull 24:15  Absolutely. That's perfect. It's like the sentimental piece that you need to add. So what I love about this is there are some women who are doing this for themselves. You know, let's say after, after having a baby, they're saying, I want a ring to commemorate that. I'm like, awesome. Go for it. Good for you. Then there's women like, we mentioned Lauren, who's like, I really want to honor my journey and my legacy, which is super exciting. Now we just started, we actually just really, speaking of the left hand ring finger, we just released ring transformations, which we are incur, basically like giving permission to women to say, this ring from when I got married 10 years ago is not in style and I don't even like it anymore, and revamping it and doing something with it. Lesley Logan 25:01  I love, that. I love that.Margot McNaull 25:02  It's so good. And, you know what's fascinating is us releasing the program. It's like they knew they could do this this whole time. Us saying apply for a ring transformation is like the permission they needed, because so many more people came out of the woodwork and are doing it now, because we, because we said it, you know?Lesley Logan 25:22  Well, I think also, like, it's on your to-do list, but then you're like, it just feels daunting. You're not really sure, you know, you almost like, need the prompt. I love this. I think that's really cool. I also, um, for the women who are, you know, letting go of relationship. I have seen women get beautiful rings, like, divorced rings.Margot McNaull 25:40  Yes, I know I've done that, and there's some funny names for them, and they've done something cool for themselves afterwards, which I love. And then I also hate, you know, because I don't want to just focus on this one finger. I hate when women say, like, you know, if I have a ring on that finger, then someone always ties it to a relationship. And then there's this whole other tangent of, why is this piece of our body belonging to someone else? It's like, I feel sorry for the single women who just want to wear a ring, and if they go on either side, right, people be like, oh, are you with someone? It's so frustrating. Lesley Logan 26:13  Yeah, no, it really is. Also like, I don't know. Maybe it's because I live in California, and people can judge how they want to, but like, I, whenever I wore a ring on that finger before I was married, it wasn't like people, it stopped anyone. Like, I got engaged, and I got more people asking me out on the first date at the Whole Foods in WeHo which, by the way, is where everyone is gay. So I should have been, like, left alone. So, so I would just say, like, I don't think anyone's actually that observant anymore.Margot McNaull 26:39  So true. So true. Yeah? Like, they should have permission to wear whatever they want on whatever finger and celebrate themselves in whatever way they want, right? And it's so interesting, because it's like, at, some women are waiting for that to happen, for that moment, for that someone to give it to them. And like, if you're listening right now, you do not need to wait for that, you know, do it for yourself. And if you do it for yourself first, and that happens later, it's probably going to be even more special because you're honoring yourself first. Lesley Logan 27:09  Yeah, oh I'm into that. I'm so into that. So ladies, put a ring on that finger and just put something that makes you feel powerful and wonderful and special. You know, it's just be it till you see it. And I think oftentimes, like the acting as if you are worthy before you might feel it is also helpful, because it's like, okay, if I did feel worthy, what would I do? What would I wear? What would how would I say yes to this? Would I would I be concerned about putting a ring on that finger or buying myself the ring that I've always wanted? You know, I think that that, and then all of a sudden, you you can, like, start to step into those shoes easily. And so when that ring is ordered and put on that you it doesn't feel foreign. It doesn't feel like something you're embarrassed about. Yeah.Margot McNaull 27:53  Yes, you're gonna love it so much more, too, because I've been working with a lot of couples for many years now. Like you said, they're partial therapist, partial ring designer. And honestly, if you don't go through that process first, you're not going to honor yourself enough in a way to actually get a ring you want to wear. You're going to compromise in ways that, and this is a piece you have to wear forever. This is where now, when, you know, people come without their partners, it kind of freaks me out of it, you know, like when the wearer of the ring isn't there, it'll, because it's so how do you nail all those details without the person wearing it? It's going to be on their body everyday maybe. So you deserve something that you truly love and truly honors who you are and what you want everyday. And so I just think, if you do that for yourself first, before getting into a wedding ring, you're, you're not going to compromise on that wedding ring either. You're going to know what you're doing. Lesley Logan 28:45  Yeah, yeah. And I think, like, what a symbol of a ring, if you've compromised all the way, like, you know, like, what is, what's going to happen? What's the be it till you see it, if everything to the detail of the ring is a compromise, you know? Versus like, I like this. I want this, yeah. Oh, my, oh, I could talk to you forever about jewelry, like, I really could. I got a new emerald, by the way, I'll have to show it to you.Margot McNaull 28:46  Ooh, yes, please. One of my faves. Lesley Logan 29:07  It's so pretty. It's like, I like, I put it on my finger, and I was like, I said, my friend, my the person who made my wedding ring. I was at her house, and I she had it out, and I was like, what is this that I don't need but I truly want? And I put it on. I was like, well, just look at that. And I was like, put, I tried to put, I was like, well, maybe I'll put the pink one on, you know? And then I was like, no, it's the one, I want, the green one. So I just wore it. And I sent a picture to Brad. I said, hey, babe, what do you think about this? And he didn't respond. And I was like, well, you know, silence is admission, like, it's permission. So this is like, I like, and so I bought it. And he's like, oh, what'd you get? And I was like, well, I hope you like that green one. Margot McNaull 29:55  I love that. Yes, I need to see that with your hair, too. Like, green emerald.Lesley Logan 30:00  It is so bright when, when we're done recording, I'll grab it. So anyways, okay, we're gonna take a brief break, because we could talk jewelry forever. But I want to find out some Be It Action Items from you and where people can work with you. Margot McNaull 30:11  Amazing. Lesley Logan 30:12  All right, Margo, where do you like to hang out? Where can people find you, follow you, connect with you, work on a ring with you?Margot McNaull 30:18  Yeah, let's do it. So our I'm most active on Instagram @StorbyMargot. So that's S-T-O-R-B-Y Margot with the T. And my two websites are storbymargot.com and margotmcnaull.com which will be you'll have them up, but my personal brand website, which is more women-focused, and then Stór By Margot is more tailored to the wedding side.Lesley Logan 30:37  Wonderful. Okay, we've talked a lot about some really good stuff, but Be It Action Item, it's the bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps women can take who are listening and the few good men, by the way, we do have a few good men. Margot McNaull 30:51  Love it. Lesley Logan 30:53  We always call them out, they're listening, that they can take to be it till they see it.Margot McNaull 31:02  Love it. Okay, so I'm glad you gave me some time to think about this, but came down to don't give up on yourself, because to go through what you need to go through to be that strong, successful, driven woman, you have to go through some pretty dark valleys, and you do have to look at things in a way that other people maybe don't want to. It's easier not to look at those things, but then you're going to come out with a less powerful message. So the thing that I reflected on was going through a decade where many times I wanted to quit. Well, I'm I very much am not a quitter, I would say, like, I'm more of a beat myself up and keep going. But there would have been times where it would have been easier to quit, and I didn't quit, and instead I had to, like, look deep and figure out what was so uncomfortable and raw. And that's where I'm coming out of, I feel like, in a way. And you know, it seems like 10 years. When you start a business, I mean, you know this, when you start a business, you you'd think you'd be a long way in at year 10, right? Or you look at other people and you're like, man, look how well they did. And honestly, I feel like it's just the beginning, because of all of these things I had to figure out. And if you do not want to look deep into yourself, and you do, do not want to do deep work, definitely don't start a business, because I really, I feel like it's really similar to having kids. It takes a lot out of you, you know, I did both at the same time. So, hence, the very deep, dark valleys of self-reflection and what purpose I wanted to have. But that's what I thought about be it till you see it is I just kept going through the darkness, and I just keep having faith in the process. And that's what I would say in terms of being it till you see it. Because even, I mean, I'm very excited soon to be moving to the U.S. but. Lesley Logan 32:56  Yeah. You're being it until you see it on that U.S. move for, I think, few months after I met you. So it's kind of amazing that it's happening. Margot McNaull 33:06  I'm so excited expanding the business into the U.S. and but in, like some of you know, in Canada, we had the longest shutdowns. We had some of the longest shutdowns in the world. In from 2020-2022 we were still closed January 2022, can you even believe that? Lesley Logan 33:22  It's insane. Margot McNaull 33:23  And running a business at that point in time, you had to be great. And so I was thinking about, you know, life would have been a lot easier if I had given up, but I wouldn't be here today, and I wouldn't be talking about this message that I'm so excited to keep sharing and encouraging women with and so that's my Be It for you, for sure. Lesley Logan 33:44  Yeah, I love that, and it's true. Like, if you don't want to get to know yourself and go through all the dark valleys, there's good too. But like, you don't get the good without the dark. Like, that's just how the world is, how everything is in our lives, then go work for someone else, where you can clock in, repeat things and clock out, because it's, yeah, running, every single day, I learn something about myself. I'm like, oh, I wish I could take that back. I wish I could do that differently. Okay, I get to do that differently next time, but I have to live with what I did this time. Margot McNaull 34:19  Exactly. Lesley Logan 34:20  Yeah, it's, it's interesting, a journey it's a journey. But ladies and gentlemen, please consider, one, your worthiness, for this episode. Two, get the ring that you want for any finger. And three, share this with a friend who needs to hear it. You know, share this with a friend who's like needs to remember that they like are truly married to themselves and and that is how we can, I think, uplift each other and helping those around us feel worthy as well. So Margot, thank you so much. Y'all make sure that you tag any takeaways with Margot, the Be It Pod, share with a friend and until next time, Be It Till You See It. Lesley Logan 35:04  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Brad Crowell 35:46  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 35:52  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 35:56  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 36:02  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 36:06  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Herkus Kunčius. „Nepasigailėti Dušanskio“. Išleido leidykla „Versus aureus“.Modernistinės pakraipos lietuvių autorius, užsivertė nepakeliamą naštą – perrašyti Gerąją Naujieną pagal Partijos Programą. Šis romanas – farsas, žlungančių vertybių ir likimų misterija – slepia skaudžią prasmę. Visuomet žmonių istorija yra žaizda, kurią draskome ideologijomis ir tikėjimais, dėl menkos savo egzistencijos pamiršę būtį. Knygos ištraukas skaito aktorius Vytautas Rumšas.

Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest Young Deuces Dion Lack This Week We Discuss Drink Water That Always Taste Fishy vs Eat Food That Always Taste Fishy Give Up Your Phone For A Month vs Live In Solitude For Three Months Have The Power To Shrink vs Grow

CARL COX curses BLŨ out in an extreme show of brilliantly vile COCKNEY FASHION. CARL COX [unintelligible cockney] BLŪ I have no idea what you just said, or why you're yelling at me! CARL COX (Sarcastically) Well how's this—? “Ello, poppet!” In THE DJ storyline )which is technically storyline a, we've just discovered DJ DILLON FRANCIS used BLU — (originally CC) as a sort of horcrux for his darkest magical intentions. Now the DJS are in a rush to extract this device before time runs out. Wtf did Dillon Francis do? YO HE LITERALLY MADE HER INTO A POPPIT. What the fuck is a poppit. It's like a little fuckin— thing— witches use to store magical energy and when the spell is over you're supposed to destroy them— but he DIDNT and it came to life and it merged with CC! Yooooooo! Who is now blu Tha Gürū, because Chak Chel dissappeared— or sort of dissappeared— to aide in the magical assasination of Let me guess— No don't guess, you could ruin it. What. Don't literally ruin it. The show exists in a multiversial construct which means anything you say, or think, or guess could unintentionally alter the plot, and skew it into an array of infinitely possible dimensions! Oh no! But I already thought! Shh! No you didn't! Just replace those thoughts— with better ones z— I don't have any better thoughts! Well, make some up. Uh— ok! Shh, it's coming back on this is where it gets intense. I thought you've never seen this before I know! But I know it gets intense! Well, how do you know that?! BECAUSE I KNOW THAT ALREADY. {Enter The Multiverse} ENTER THE MULTIVERSE is getting intense. BLŪ WHAT. NO ITS NOT! I can't take it I just can't take it I just can't take it no more I just can't n THE SKY IS FALLING! WHY?' I don't know. Seems pretty intense though, doesn't it. FUCK YOUUUUUU DEADMAU55555555! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!! I am DEADMAU— *powers down* Ah, fuck. KATT WILLIAMS is coaching the NBC GAMES. KATT WILLIAMS Alright, b-ball time! Shirts! Versus skins! you can be skins, Jimmy Fallon. *winks* Ew. She's so fucking gross. I don't get it. Uh— what? No I can't. I'm wearing a suit. I'm sure it's fused to my skin, or something. (This is actually the VICE AGENT version of the dude, who is wired head to toe. If he takes his shirt off, it will blow his cover.) SKINS. Fuck. L E G E N D S HE DUPED YOU! I BELIEVE THAT! He's good at everything! Especially things like that! WE'LL KILL HIM! NO ONE CAN KILL HIM. HE IS IMMORTAL. –doesn't mean we can't try. *dramatic music* [beat] WHAT?! I SAID– I CAN'T HEAR YOU, THERE'S A HELLICOPTER LEVITATING DIRECTLY OVER US! I KNOW! THAT'S WHY I WAS YELLING TOO, IT'S JUST– [Suddenly they realize, it is the he of who they speak hovering in the helicopter.] *GASP* DOn'T. {it's too late. He unloads a clip from an automatic rifle] THOSE ARE BANNED IN EUROPE. YOU COULD HAVE FOOLED ME! I KNOW I COULD HAVE! BECAUSE YOU ARE QUITE OBVIOUSLY EASILY FOOLED! ENOUGH. The helicopter scoops down and unrolls a ladder. W–wait! ARE YOU GETTING IN THE HELLICOPTER WITH HIM?! (dramatically) It appears so. WHAT. YES! YES I AM GETTING INTO THE HELLICOPTER. ARE YOU GONNA SHOOT AT ME *confused* *shurgs* (he gives up) ..of course not. Well then, I believe it is YOU that has been duped. WHAT!??!? GOOD DAY, SIR. Lil Bitz They really nominated Stephen Colbert for an Emmy, and then fired him the next day. What on Earth. What did you do at the party, bro? Be honest! They literally we're like, Wednesday: You're nominated for an Emmy award! Thursday: You're cancelled! Cancelled, bro. How do you cancel the late show? That was David Letterman. The whole point of a show like that is so it goes on forever! Nope, cancelled! Daaaamn. You better win that Emmy now, bruh. {Enter The Multiverse} HOW THE FUCK DID WAYNE BRADY GET IN HERE! I dont know how Wayne Brady got in here! Keep an eye on him. I heard he's polyscientific in his sexual proclivities. Oh. Okay then. L E G E N D S CARL COX curses BLŨ out in an extreme show of brilliantly vile COCKNEY FASHION. CARL COX [unintelligible cockney] BLŪ I have no idea what you just said, or why you're yelling at me! CARL COX (Sarcastically) Well how's this—? “Ello, poppet!” In THE DJ storyline )which is technically storyline a, we've just discovered DJ DILLON FRANCIS used BLU — (originally CC) as a sort of horcrux for his darkest magical intentions. Now the DJS are in a rush to extract this device before time runs out. Wtf did Dillon Francis do? YO HE LITERALLY MADE HER INTO A POPPIT. What the fuck is a poppit. It's like a little fuckin— thing— witches use to store magical energy and when the spell is over you're supposed to destroy them— but he DIDNT and it came to life and it merged with CC! Yooooooo! Who is now Blū Tha Gürū, because Chak Chel disappeared— or sort of disappeared— to aide in the magical assasination of Let me guess— No don't guess, you could ruin it. What. Don't literally ruin it. The show exists in a multiversial construct which means anything you say, or think, or guess could unintentionally alter the plot, and skew it into an array of infinitely possible dimensions! Oh no! But I already thought! Shh! No you didn't! Just replace those thoughts— with better ones z— I don't have any better thoughts! Well, make some up! Uh— ok! Shh, it's coming back on: this is where it gets intense. I thought you've never seen this before I know! But I know it gets intense! Well, how do you know that?! BECAUSE I KNOW THAT ALREADY. {Enter The Multiverse} ENTER THE MULTIVERSE is getting intense. BLŪ WHAT. NO ITS NOT! I can't take it I just can't take it I just can't take it no more I just can't n THE SKY IS FALLING! WHY?' I don't know. Seems pretty intense though, doesn't it. FUCK YOUUUUUU DEADMAU55555555! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!! I am DEADMAU— *powers down* Ah, fuck. {Enter The Multiverse} ICONS KATT WILLIAMS is coaching the NBC GAMES. KATT WILLIAMS Alright, b-ball time! Shirts! Versus skins! …you can be skins, Jimmy Fallon. *winks* Ew. She's so fucking gross. I don't get it. Uh— what? No I can't. I'm wearing a suit. I'm sure it's fused to my skin, or something. (This is actually the VICE AGENT version of the dude, who is wired head to toe. If he takes his shirt off, it will blow his cover.) SKINS. Fuck. L E G E N D S HE DUPED YOU! I BELIEVE THAT! He's good at everything! Especially things like that! WE'LL KILL HIM! NO ONE CAN KILL HIM. HE IS IMMORTAL. –doesn't mean we can't try. *dramatic music* [beat] WHAT?! I SAID– I CAN'T HEAR YOU, THERE'S A HELLICOPTER LEVITATING DIRECTLY OVER US! I KNOW! THAT'S WHY I WAS YELLING TOO, IT'S JUST– [Suddenly they realize, it is the he of who they speak hovering in the helicopter.] *GASP* DOn'T. {it's too late. He unloads a clip from an automatic rifle] THOSE ARE BANNED IN EUROPE. YOU COULD HAVE FOOLED ME! I KNOW I COULD HAVE! BECAUSE YOU ARE QUITE OBVIOUSLY EASILY FOOLED! ENOUGH. The helicopter scoops down and unrolls a ladder. W–wait! ARE YOU GETTING IN THE HELLICOPTER WITH HIM?! (dramatically) It appears so. WHAT. YES! YES I AM GETTING INTO THE HELLICOPTER. ARE YOU GONNA SHOOT AT ME? *confused* *shurgs* (he gives up) ..of course not. Well then, I believe it is YOU that has been duped. WHAT!??!? GOOD DAY, SIR. Lil Bitz They really nominated Stephen Colbert for an Emmy, and then fired him the next day. What on Earth. What did you do at the party, bro? Be honest! They literally we're like, Wednesday: You're nominated for an Emmy award! Thursday: You're cancelled! Cancelled, bro. How do you cancel the late show? That was David Letterman. The whole point of a show like that is so it goes on forever! Nope, cancelled! Daaaamn. You better win that Emmy now, bruh. {Enter The Multiverse} Look at the pale ass people who can afford this place— I'm probably not even allowed there With much dishonor and bad distaste- You'd better stop coming around there If I spend my time out buying your price Mercy to the highest bidder You can call me anything you'd like But just don't call me a quitter If it's talk you want, I've got all the words For a stake, I'll buy you dinner In my house of hands, I've got all nine cards Hey Mary, your husband's a sinner I play all nine holes I lived all nine lives I spend all night In the The Panorama Room Smoke a parliament, parliament I just haven't the heart (The heart) To tell her You were part of it (Part of it) But I just sat down To write my love a letter When you know it's over (You know it's over) But you know you can't Forget her When you know it's over (You know it's over) But you also know That you just can't Forgive her And I just sat down And I just sat down And I just sat down To write my love a letter I write all my best lines In The Panorama Room And I'm back on prime time tonight But it's just lights out If I get back now I just might be up by noon But if I pass out In the town car I went that far As to turn back out For an hour, or a barback Oh wow, I — Look at the time Have a long night out I just lost my life At The Panorama Room It wasn't exactly the phantom But it just might have been Patrick And just like that, I need a back rub And a ballroom gown And an hour of heart talk But I just don't want all that, God I just gotta keep talking Outback from one But what's after all out? I'm no longer lost, I just wanna know How far till the next exit? When's wind a kite to fall back on? How many faxes till it makes sense? Cause it ain't been ten days yet, But I faked maybe seven or eight It is dangerous! A high stakes game, nothing makes sense Till just the end, then it hates to— Just rolls over, the next day raises And all you know is a tunnel And the smoke rising up from the long tail And really no hope goes there at all, But the words to a song And then they cut the lights off It is over; You don't know her, You can't love her— You can't move here, And there's no home sprung out of Hollywood; It was all a hoax, It was all just marxists, And now you really all are on your last dollar to spend, because in the end, truth is currency and we inTelevision really ain't in the business of truth in media; The honesty is honestly just as lost as you and I all are and yet— as proposed, We really are not as one, but so separate that it's possible, your stardust, and my horcruxes Are not that foreign to one another in terms of matter, but fall on us as gospels of one world to a whole other. You know that? It really has been a long drunk drive up the 101 in this classic car with the bucket seats and honest, I'm dying in the intertwined and reading these radio waves just as any old controller, but who knows really when it goes into the ocean, Seemingly out of control, But just turns back to shore, Such as a surfboard. — Seth Rogen. No, no dust— keep moving— It's just sandy beaches and trouble warring No, not now, keep off us— If trouble waves and shadows park this car, A storm is coming. And we were off to shore in the blue classic car, U-turned into her shore like a surfboard on the water. Don't ever do that again. I won't bother. You said “off road.” I didn't know that meant ocean. No, it doesn't go in the ocean. I spoke too soon. {Enter The Multiverse} Do you want me to die, Or bury your love like a secret ther I betray you, And portray you here in such a way as are kings and god, but of ruthless man, you are no honor or, or— worthy of such prize, as I, you ponder? Death seeks you and slowly surely is approaching and is as upon us the dog that barks and the wind that calls and the kiss that waits not as dusk but morning light, and do our calls upon us. And wait you then, these things I have here in my gate, and the knowing of the tide that does not moon, put sorrow? Like a lake it is thus ruined and by my time passed and even ye you, there hath it been not told, as told before the earth will shake with envy, and with pity, and with bore her such pride as slain thy son?! No! You do not any but gasp in these, my words as so you wore but tattered clothes as truths to these, no in mine wealth of heart and rich of soul, yet these bearing little truths have sown our end I wait Here slithers here the snake for singing crickets followed thy sound and thy voice to betray you; And thee I harp as though not to wait my tongue, my pride has pondered on this moment. O, I know and shall to thee my praying the honor of know not I that seek in weighing many days upon us; And though ye as many embark in flight and make my way and wonder where is but here the road to such a comet. Oh shit, he's asking about the other planet. Thank you. Yeah I— There's absolutely no chance in making it. It, by all standard and concept in the construct of time, is not possible. Your kind will be washed and diminished, and our time has come to again rule over our, to she whom you call “Earth”, not as our home, but as our daughter. You have known wise to honor her, our coming. Like omg what the fuck does this have to do with Jimmy Fallon. right. L E G E N D S: ICONS I guess it came through. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR EMMY. Uhh… Thanks? I uh— we didn't win yet. Not with that attitude. Huh. Look at that. I guess you're right! [beat] —but wait, who are you up against? [The Festival Project ™] This is intense. Yeah, I'll say it is… We gotta get to the other side of that portal. I don't think we should be making any— — we should go through the portal—! —plans very seriously— and honestly I'm thinking— Or maybe— you stay here, and I'll go through the portal, and you tell me if you can hear anything once I make it to the other side! I don't know if that…works. What? Why not dude? It'll be great— Cause I don't know anything about portals, and honestly— —I'm thinking— I just want to make it past the Emmy's so I can get laid again—like really laid— I've been… paying… for it. —you want to skip going through a portal so you can get laid? By a decent— and by decent I mean free— lady who just happens to be single and in attendance of the Emmy's or any of the after parties— yes, actually! Yes! No! We have to go through this portal to see what's actually on the other side! I don't have to do anything! No, you don't have to do anything— because I'm going through the portal, and you're just—staying and making sure you tell me if you can hear me! I don't think it's that easy actually! But you don't know until you try. I'm not trying. You're trying. And I'm letting you because you're pressuring me! Shut up. You're starting to sound like one of my interns. If I was one of your interns I would be quitting, and hash tagging you already. If you were one of my interns you wouldn't be paying for company. What's that supposed to mean? Just—- {Enter the multiverse} Stop. What if all whores are just bored workers And all escorts personal massagers— What if all message boards are mating calls And all honor rolls are leader boards, And all board rooms are horse drawn carriages For faraway battlefields, What if nothing I offer even comes close To the dollar value of your most cherished call girl And what if anything I know about her Doesn't conform to my idea of a comfort zone? What if the anxiety you're eyeing me and getting high behind me with is just designed to bind my mind enlightening the lightning strike dividing my entirety? What if I want to know you know my known worth without words or surfaces? What if all I don't know is all of my whole world, And just the dollop of a thought could push you off the wall to fall from the top of the Rockerfeller plaza into art upon the crosswalk? What if I could touch that cross, and walk with the palm of the sword stretched out like a… What were you saying? I don't know something about the handle of a sword turning into another object? What if I could hypothesis not one, but all the conundrums in one stroke of nonsense? Stop already? For what. I was told I could have been bought and sold Had I dressed the part To drive off in the pretty corvette But how dare I not Look just as hard earned As her for dollar signs Although Somebody bought her all of that? What if all you are is just bullets in the gun And a wound for my brain And a heart to heal Without home or a umbrella As the rain comes down so hard It sends whole homes floating? What if all the remarks in my smart ass couldn't call you up in the form of laughter? How about that one? How does your back ache? How was your hour glass. Much much Longer And Harder Than An hour. How I broke my spell? I just shook her hands. I just put my tail In between my legs And departure Marks the time of Our new travel archive But With just the dust of lust From dusk till dawn The one you wanted Climbs upon the forest In another song Or story What you— One, Two, Three dice— The riddle Four, five, Six mice, the honor Six, seven— Someone's disrespected; Lessons! Eight, nine— Oh my, Someone's right behind us. Nor can I stop writing or whining about my desires, and deadlines coming up and signing off, but I'm still crying. So I never sold my sole, And yet, The light from it was stolen; Slamming doors and hard earned apartments, Multipliers and real bad liars And one liners And one sells signed autographed autobiographies Now how about that for a rabbit hole, Seth Meyers? You should work harder on your crossovers Then again, the rule of thumb is to just Put them all on the old drum code And it's just no fun If it's not on suicide watch Don't bother I don't brother, But I learned to love her. You know? Silly little game, this inconsiderate confusion, wind washed galleyways and fisherman to put you under, Degrading you very awaking for the patrons, faking it— No things haven't made sense since you ate it With which way Is the birthday cake? Mistakes the Ace as Satan Lately, anything don't matter but that's a laugh Still no dollar though, no Don't call her out— she just wants courage And witness to slaughter Hers the very lamb of truth And mother's daughter. Put your art to work, This is not a war, it's a fairway And it and your worth, It's a fair game It ain't make sense Till you get 8-6 out a bar that you own Under A. An Alias, B. Under the Name of an Accomplice or otherwise trustworthy partner to which not you call love, but perhaps a co-owner. (Or co-author.) Remember the time now? A shit. I gotta run. Where to? I don't know yet. Grey suit. The whispers of a game Blue tie White stripes Red lips, One aim and he doesn't think twice One name and he doesn't give once Two trips to the hallway, One gun in the holster, One bullet in the chamber, And one number you thought of. Four? …yes. I've got a secret, a dirty little secret. The Rock and The Kite XI {Enter The Multiverse} Copyright The Collective Complex © [The Festival Project, Inc. ™] © 2025 All Rights Reserved -Ū.

Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest Chinedu Unaka John Grimes This Week We Discuss Hit By A Slow Moving Car vs Jumped By Elderly Gang Do Naked & Afraid In Australia vs Be Homeless In Chicago During Winter Eat One For Every Meal; McDonalds vs Indian Food S/o To Our Sponsors Better Help https://betterhelp.com/SQUADD 10% Off Your First Month!

This week The rollout boys cover Drake's wireless fest while discussing how they feel about "What did I Miss" a week later. Who wins a Versus between Twista and Mystikal. Also they try to figure out what's the beef between Nicki and Jay-z. Of course they do a deep dive into the Clipse Album!!! As always, the culture from a Midwest point of view #WWTB

Podcast for a deep examination into the career and life choices of Eddie Murphy & Jim Carrey. Patrick and Joe get a big surprise in the recording studio, but they are disappointed at how small the box containing it is. Lev tries to turn the hosts into a Simon and Garfunkle style singing pair to help him get rich quick. How hungry are audiences for an alpha-gen era American folk rock duo (keeping in mind there will be no autotune)? Find out on this week's episode of 'What the Hell Happened to Them?' Email the cast at whathappenedtothem@gmail.com Disclaimer: This episode was recorded in July 2025. References may feel confusing and/or dated unusually quickly. 'Dreamgirls' is available on DVD, Blu-ray, and HD DVD (if you believe in those): https://www.amazon.com/Dreamgirls-Blu-ray-Jamie-Foxx/dp/B0C1P72T2S/ Music from "Cadillac Car" and "One Night Only (Disco Version)" by Henry Krieger and Tom Eyen Artwork from BJ West   quixotic, united, skeyhill, vekeman, murphy, carrey, versus, vs, dreamgirls, dream, girls, beyonce, hudson, foxx, musical, motown, supremes, ross, carey, football

In this episode Renaldo continues to gather feedback from people on the street in Philly about the DC 33 Union's industrial action Versus the Mayor who many believe should have acted. However, on this episode we spoke with professionals who were against the demands of the DC 33 Workers saying they want too much, and if they get $63000 then professionals will ask for $100k. Maurice Smith joins Renaldo on The Neoliberal Round.https://anchor.fm/theneoliberalA production of The Neoliberal Corporationhttps://theneoliberal.comSupport us: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=USSJLFU2HRVAQ

Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest Kanisha Buss BT Kingsley Mike Damn This Week We Discuss Bionic Arm vs Bionic Leg Live Somewhere It Constantly Snows vs Constantly Rains Spend A Day With Future You vs Past You

Podcast for a deep examination into the career and life choices of Eddie Murphy & Jim Carrey. Patrick and Joe learn that they can make more money with a podcast that's a flop than with one that's a hit. Lev dusts off his old accountant degree to cook some books for them. Unfortunately the degree is dustier than they expected and he literally roasts the accounting ledgers. Can their scheme come back from this poorly timed pun? Find out on this week's episode of 'What the Hell Happened to Them?' Email the cast at whathappenedtothem@gmail.com Disclaimer: This episode was recorded in July 2025. References may feel confusing and/or dated unusually quickly. 'Fun with Dick and Jane' is available on DVD and... that's it apparently (the original has a blu-ray though): https://www.amazon.com/Fun-Dick-Jane-Tea-Leoni/dp/B000E8N8H0/ Music from "Robin of Sherwood Medley" by Clannad Artwork from BJ West   quixotic, united, skeyhill, vekeman, murphy, carrey, versus, vs, fun, dick, jane, enron, baldwin, jenkins, higgins, carey, times, fonda, segel, ebert

Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest Roxxy Haze LouLou Gonzalez Brandon Broady Courtney Haynes This Week We Discus

More Than Conquerors Have you ever experienced gaps in your life between the reality you're living VERSUS the promises you see in the Bible? Romans 8 is loaded with great promises such as, “If Christ is for us, who can be against us?” and “We are more than conquerors…” and yet, our reality doesn't seem to match up with that identity? This week, we continue in our series, ONE HIT WONDERS, and we examine the gap — the gap between the reality of our day-in-day-out lives versus where we feel God is calling us to live as Christians. What we discover is that the gap is because we have an incomplete view of the power of Grace and how it should be at work in our lives, not merely as a “saving” Grace that rescues us but also as an “empowering” Grace that is designed by God to help us elevate our lives, our relationships, our situations, and ultimately the world around us as we manifest more and more of the Kingdom of God on the Earth. Romans 8 Discussion topics Where are you experiencing static in your life? (ie: where do you keep asking God to send “Descending” Grace to “rescue you”?) Relationships? Finances? Job? Health? Addictions? Failures? Etc.?  In those areas, what are some of the typical things you are saying to yourself? (ie: what are your low-frequency scripts?) Some examples: – – “My kids are always so frustrating!” – “My spouse is always so __________ [[fill in the blank]]” – “Why is there never enough money?” – “Well, my Mom/Dad was always sick, so I guess I just got their genes…” – “I guess this is just what getting old looks like…” – “The government always _________ [[fill in the blank]]” – “The world is going to hell-in-a-handbasket…” – “It is what it is…” What is ONE SCRIPT you can rewrite this week to speak Empowering Grace grounded in your Identity of Life in the Spirit? ACTION ITEM: READ ROMANS 8 with Empowering Grace in mind. Check out our other audio series and video playlists that can help you find Jesus in every moment and then discover what's next

Lesley Logan and Brad Crowell reflect on the inspiring conversation with values-driven changemaker Kate Galli. From standing up for animals to staying grounded in joy, this episode explores what it takes to lead with purpose. Learn how Kate uses her voice, energy, and optimism to drive meaningful change—while still staying connected to community, compassion, and self-care.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:Exercises for managing lower back pain in Pilates classes.Kate Galli's journey into plant-based living and how it deepened her purpose.How she transitioned from being an “angry vegan” to a compassionate advocate.The ABC Method's role in fostering mindset shifts and habit change.Why identifying core values is essential for aligning with your goals.Episode References/Links:Ask Iliza Anything Podcast - https://beitpod.com/askilizaeLevate Workout and Q&A - https://lesleylogan.co/elevatewaitlistAgency Mini - https://prfit.biz/miniOPC Summer Tour - https://opc.me/tourUK Mullet Tour - https://opc.me/ukCambodia October 2025 Waitlist - https://crowsnestretreats.comTaylor Made at Pilates Anytime - https://www.pilatesanytime.com (use code: LLogan for a 30-day trial)Submit your questions - https://beitpod.com/questionsKate Galli's Website - strongbodygreenplanet.comHealthification Podcast - https://beitpod.com/healthificationEp. 528: Stephanie O'Dea - https://beitpod.com/stephanieodea If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/ Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/ Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Brad Crowell 0:00  I was thinking, passion doesn't necessarily equal anger, even though it's associated with high energy. And then you just said the word compassion, which is more in line with what we want. Compassion still includes the word passion.Lesley Logan 0:14  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Lesley Logan 0:53  Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the empathetic convo I had with Kate Galli in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now and go back and listen or listen to this and go listen to that. It's kind of fun how the episodes work like that. If you're in the OPC app, you can easily see them and pick and choose. If you're in an Apple app, it kind of serves you in whatever order you're at so there you go. But it's quite fun. We'll get into her thing. I actually, because of her, have been putting tofu in my breakfast. So, yeah. Brad Crowell 1:29  Oh, love that.Lesley Logan 1:30  This is a woman. This is the person who said. So today is June 26th 2025 and it's National Handshake Day. So finally, a day that's not a fucking nightmare. If you listened to last week, this should be more uplifting. National Handshake Day. This is they always start with the thing, and it drives me crazy. Brad Crowell 1:48  Every year on this day. Lesley Logan 1:49  On this day, it's just like, it's like chatting before it happened. National Handshake Day is celebrated on the last Thursday of June each year, falling on June 26th this year. And yep, yep, we covered that already, and we're glad that this common greeting is getting a place in the spotlight after all the year that it has been around. Not only is the handshake the most universally recognized form of greeting, but it also has come to mean different things in different cultures, which is why learning more about it will come in handy. Pun intended. Throughout history and across different cultural contexts, the handshake is in practice, an expression of peace or goodwill, and is almost like a common language that binds us together the world over. That's a way, that's a weird sentence. It's no wonder, then, that we want to make a big deal about this innocuous gesture. Sociologically, the handshake has come to be a symbol of things hidden below the surface, as you can tell a lot about the person the way they shake. Brad Crowell 2:45  By the handshake. Lesley Logan 2:46  Yes, perhaps for this reason, secret handshakes have also become popular, giving people a sense of belonging to a particular group. However you view the handshake, one has to admit that it deserves its own day. Brad Crowell 2:58  It sure does. Lesley Logan 2:59  Just owing the sheer frequency of its use in our daily lives.Brad Crowell 3:02  Yep, yep. Sans Covid, when no one did any handshakes ever it was the wave.Lesley Logan 3:07  Well, now, and now everyone does fist bumps or like people don't shake hands, like there's like the germaphobes will never shake hands. Brad Crowell 3:11  Yeah, never again. Lesley Logan 3:13  I will be honest. I almost rather go for a hug than a handshake, like, I just feel kind of weird about it, mostly with women, obviously. Second, I don't really. Brad Crowell 3:25  Hi, friend, handshake.Lesley Logan 3:26  Hi friend. Also, I gotta be honest, I fucking hate a dead fish handshake. And I also do not give me the bunny hand, like I'm gonna kiss it, you know, some, some girls, yeah, like they give you their hand. They give you their hand like this, and then you're supposed to like, like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that. I'm supposed to say, What am I supposed to do? Brad Crowell 3:32  She's supposed to take it underneath and kiss their hand.Lesley Logan 3:50  Yeah, but, but you're giving it to me. I'm not gonna kiss your hand. Brad Crowell 3:54  What? Why not?Lesley Logan 3:55  No, no, not even yours. So I get but I was listening to Iliza Shlesinger's podcast, and she was talking about how, like, hand, she obviously, because she's got kids, and so she's always sick. She's like, comedy shows. She's meeting people, and so, like, they have rules about no hugging, no handshakes. And she's like, we used to shake hands to make sure the other person doesn't have a gun in it. So like. Brad Crowell 4:14  We did? Lesley Logan 4:14  That's what she said and she's like, such a historian.Brad Crowell 4:17  Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Lesley Logan 4:17  You know. Brad Crowell 4:18  I know what she's talking about. Lesley Logan 4:19  Tell me. Brad Crowell 4:21  In the Wild West, it was like the under the table situation. And also you specifically used you shook with the right hand only because I think the left hand was used to wipe your ass.Lesley Logan 4:33  Right because it also assumed that most people are right-handed, and then you use right hand for your gun. Brad Crowell 4:37  Yeah, exactly. So I'm pretty sure there's some history, some historicity to that claim. Lesley Logan 4:44  Yeah, yeah. Brad Crowell 4:47  But anyway, luck us, definitely.Lesley Logan 4:49  Everyone's left hand was just covered in shit back then.Brad Crowell 4:50  I think that's not quite the same thing, but yeah.Lesley Logan 4:58  Oh my God, thank God we don't live back then, guys, it must have smelled like shit. Like, just whenever I think about whenever I, like, look at, like a castle situation, I'm like, this place reeked of shit. There's no way.Brad Crowell 5:11  Also probably like, ice, fricking cold. Lesley Logan 5:13  Oh, well, that and when we were at the one castle in Scotland, like everyone, including kids, was given like, liquor every day because it helped kill the germs that were like in the water and the food or something like that. So and most people were like, just not enough water for the peasants. They just drank anyway. Brad Crowell 5:27  The king had a shit hole in his throne. Lesley Logan 5:30  Yes, he did have a shit hole in his throne. That's why they call it a throne. And in front of people, they would just get up and pick up their skirt and sit down on the toilet and take a pee or take a poop or whatever. But, you know, anyways, and then, besides the gangrene that was going on. Back to this. Brad Crowell 5:43  Weird. Lesley Logan 5:45  I will just say I would love to shake your hand, but you got to shake it back. And also don't squee. The men who squeeze really hard to make sure they I know that they're strong. It's like, well, now you're, what I know you are as a dick. That's what I know. Like, there's, it's a, there's a there's a talent to the fucking handshake.Brad Crowell 6:01  There's a lot you can know. All right, let's move on. So upcoming event. Lesley Logan 6:05  We are doing a lot very, very soon. Brad Crowell 6:07  All right, stick with us here right now. It is June 26th so in just a few weeks, July 9th, we're gonna be hosting an eLevate workout, a Q&A workshop. So if you don't know what eLevate is, no biggie, that is Lesley's mentorship program for Pilates teachers. Okay? It's a 9-month program. It's an amazing way for you to get to the method more across all the different pieces of equipment, and it will 100% change your confidence. I mean, like night and day, dramatic difference, and it's perfect if you're a new teacher or you've been teaching for a really long time. This is a great program. We've been doing it for years, and it's probably our favorite program run. We're going to be doing just a Q&A and hang so a workout and you could ask questions. July 9th.Lesley Logan 6:49  Alumni will be there and they'll answer your questions, and they're great. They do have the kindest of hearts like, that's why they come.Brad Crowell 6:54  So come, go to lesleylogan.co/elevatewaitlist elevate waitlist.Lesley Logan 6:59  And that's live online, and then also live online on July 17th is Agency mini Mini.  Brad Crowell 7:03  That's right. Lesley Logan 7:03  Agency Mini number 11. Brad Crowell 7:05  Profitable Pilates is back. Lesley Logan 7:08  And it's prfit.biz/mini and it is a three day business coaching workshop. There will be two events that have live times on them, but you can off, obviously, watch replays wherever you are. It's really, really great. Look, the summer is slow for most Pilates instructors, except for like, the family travels, but it's a perfect time to work on your business and get your questions answered so that the last half of the year can be what you want it to be to set you up for next year. So prfit.biz/mini to get on the waitlist, and that way you'll get the early bird pricing. And then in person, we're coming out.Brad Crowell 7:42  OPC Summer Tour kicks off July 25th in Phoenix. We're gonna do a massive rectangle. We're gonna do Phoenix to San Diego, all the way up the coast of Vancouver, that's right into Canada. Then we're gonna cut across through Calgary, and then back down to Vegas. From there, I don't know. I think it's like close to 5000 miles, I think.Lesley Logan 8:01  You are planning this Hon. I literally, I was, people are like, where is this at? I'm like, I don't even know. Brad Crowell 8:01  We have 19 stops. Lesley Logan 8:01  Oh, whoa, 19. Brad Crowell 8:01  Yeah. Lesley Logan 8:02  This is almost as big as winter tour. Brad Crowell 8:07  It's, it is almost as big as winter tour.Lesley Logan 8:14  But a little shorter, thank goodness, because I don't think I could do two full month long tours, but this is good.Brad Crowell 8:20  This was a little over three weeks. So. Lesley Logan 8:23  Yeah. Brad Crowell 8:23  It's gonna be amazing. Lesley Logan 8:23  And we're going to Canada. Brad Crowell 8:23  We're going into Canada. I'm excited first time for us to tour up into Canada.Lesley Logan 8:27  Get the dogs paperwork ready to go into Canada and get them back in the States.Brad Crowell 8:34  Yep, yep. And then in September, we're getting on a plane.Lesley Logan 8:38  Oh, did we tell them where to go? opc.me/tour Brad Crowell 8:40  Go to opc.me/tour opc.me/tourLesley Logan 8:45  And then in September, we're getting on a plane. We're going to the UK. We have two cities in the UK. It's our Mullet Tour. And mullet means business in the front, Pilates in the back. And so we'll have a business workshop each day, and then Pilates workshops each day. Don't worry, there's more Pilates workshops and business workshops, but U.K., we're trying. We got to help you out.Brad Crowell 9:04  2/3 Pilates 1/3 biz don't worry that'll work.Lesley Logan 9:08  And there's a workout so you can get a 2-day pass at Leeds. There's only three spots left at the time we're recording this. Don't know what that means when it drops in your ears. Brad Crowell 9:15  That's true. Lesley Logan 9:16  And then Essex also space super limited. But we did open up day passes so you can buy a Tuesday-only pass or Wednesday-only pass. Brad Crowell 9:22  Yeah, or you can get both. Lesley Logan 9:23  Or you can get both, you'll save if you buy both. So opc.me/ukBrad Crowell 9:28  opc.me/uk and then finally inLesley Logan 9:31  We're going to Cambodia in October.Brad Crowell 9:32  October we're heading back across the world, and we want you to come join us. It is obviously our favorite place to be. Lesley Logan 9:39  We're gonna go to Scotland, come home, go to Chicago, go to Cambodia. Brad Crowell 9:46  Oh, yeah, we're going to P.O.T in Chicago. Lesley Logan 9:46  Yeah, we are, we are. We'll tell them about that later. They haven't announced that yet, so until they announced that, we can't announce it. Cat's out the bag.Brad Crowell 9:53  Oops, anyway, yeah, come with us. Go to crowsnestretreats.com crowsnestretreats.com to come hang. I mean, I've already been on a bunch of conversations with people talking about it. I know people are worried about travel right now, international travel, especially with like, the perception of Americans around the world due to our government making stupid decisions. Lesley Logan 10:17  We actually have been treated very well. Most people are worried for us. So they're not, like, they're they're mostly worried, and also, like, we've already gone there and come back during this administration and have had not any problems, so we don't anticipate any problems. So we also did it during March of 2020, and were, the threat of getting in the country, so it was real, and we walked right in.Brad Crowell 10:38  Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, the conversations we've been having with people haven't been that. The conversations have been more about like, are, you know, is it going to be problems for Americans traveling? Honestly, I still think it just comes down to you being cool or being an asshole. If you're an asshole, you're gonna have problems. Lesley Logan 10:56  But also, if you're an asshole, you're not listening to this podcast. Brad Crowell 10:58  Yeah, that's probably true. Lesley Logan 10:59  Pretty true. Brad Crowell 11:00  Send this to an asshole. Send this episode.Lesley Logan 11:00  I don't, don't. I was actually even worried, personally, was worried about our Canada tour stops. I thought, will they sell? We have to spend so much money on lawyers to make sure we can do everything appropriately. AndBrad Crowell 11:07  We're almost already sold out in Vancouver.Lesley Logan 11:17  Vancouver is almost sold out. So like, I will say, I actually think most people understand that we, the majority of us, are not happy with how things are going, and we are not these people. So just, just know you'll be.Brad Crowell 11:32  Yeah, but it's also like the experiences that we've had, during tumultuous times, have not prohibited us from traveling, right? So, you know, we would encourage you to, you know, get on a call with me if you have any questions about it, worried about it, come join us. Cambodia is going to be epic trust me. Lesley Logan 11:53  Oh, yeah, it's so beautiful. And also, when we're there, because we've gone so many times during administrations like this. It is like the most you don't, you're so relaxed, you don't really even you don't the news can't even really get to you, because even if it does, you hear chickens, and then you hear the birds and the parrots, and you're sweating and the motos, and you're like, I'm so far from that, like that there's nothing I can do about that while I'm here. Brad Crowell 12:17  It's called a retreat for a reason. Lesley Logan 12:21  It's really helpful. It's really helpful for your heart. I mean, I always I'm so relaxed. Brad Crowell 12:28  I'm already getting warm fuzzy feeling. Lesley Logan 12:30  I know. So come, crownestretreats.com to snag your spot.Brad Crowell 12:34  All right. And we did have an audience question this week. Thank you for sending this in. We had, I don't know how to say this, um, ayeletregev6703 ayeletregev6703 on YouTube asks, hi, during a class. Lesley Logan 12:50  Hi.Brad Crowell 12:51  Hi, during a class, what kind of exercise would you offer to someone who can't do the teaser due to lower back issues? Well, great question. Thank you for asking. Lesley Logan 13:01  Yeah. So first of all, if, first of all, the way I teach Pilates is that every exercise is going to be accessible to people at some point when they're ready. So my teacher, Jay Grimes, always said, you want to bring people up to an exercise, don't bring exercise down to a body, right? So if someone has lower back issues and they can't do the teaser, I actually wouldn't modify the teaser necessarily for them. I would have them repeat an exercise that was safe for their back, that would build up their strength, their stamina and their connections. Brad Crowell 13:24  They should just quit. Lesley Logan 13:30  Shut up, and that way, first of all, they can keep moving. And then second, it would be figuring out, like, is this lower back issue permanent? Is this like a chronic issue? They're never it's never going to go away. Is it what it is? Brad Crowell 13:50  Surgery kind of thing. Lesley Logan 13:46  And so then it's like, should they, should they even be doing flexion at all? Should they, can they do teaser with their feet on the wall? Should they just always do something else, or is it just that they are not, they're of a tight back and just not ready for it, yet? Because then we can roll like a ball into teaser, roll like a ball in a teaser, right? And that's a great way of doing it. So what I think is really important is there isn't one way to answer this question, because I don't know who we're talking about.Brad Crowell 14:09  It's true. So that's a little tough, but I do think you know the whole idea, as a non-Pilates teacher here, the whole idea of Pilates is that it's a system, right? And what I know from sitting on the sidelines and watching the eLevators come through our house, literally, our house, and work things out, is that that if they're if they can't do teaser, because they're just not there yet, that's okay. It's totally okay. They don't need to do teaser, right? It's not like, you know, teaser, to me, is like handstand in yoga, you know, it's not necessarily like changing your world. It's part of a system. It's one of the poses that you yeah, sure you want to get to it eventually. But if you, you know, if you can't do teaser, it doesn't mean you can't do Pilates, right? So, you know, if you take that approach to it, you can, you as a teacher, can help them get to that pose over time, and you can help them get to that if that's their goal, that's fine, you know. But there might be other things that you want to take them to, first because of their lower back issues,Lesley Logan 15:18  Yeah. And I, first of all, well said, babe. So many people are like, Go, Brad, but, but I think, like, you know, here's the thing, clients come to a class and you specifically about a class. And so everyone thinks that, oh, everyone in the class is doing the exact same thing. Like I was talking to someone in eLevate, they're like, oh, but I need everyone to, like, do it at the same time, because it looks really good. And I was like, uhm.Brad Crowell 15:42  We could skip all that. Lesley Logan 15:43  We don't care what it looks like as a beauty, a form of beauty, I care, are they connected? Brad Crowell 15:48  Right. We're not synchronized swimming here. Lesley Logan 15:50  Yeah. And so if that's the way you're teaching your classes, some people will like that. But to be completely honest, a lot of people are not going to actually get the benefits of Pilates in that fashion, in that form. So it's really important. Brad Crowell 16:02  The 1980s are calling. They want their synchronized workouts back.Lesley Logan 16:05  Yeah, so what I, so I would, this is how I always started every class, not every exercise is going to be for you. So when in doubt, leave it out. It's actually brave and courageous to replace what you can't do yet with something that you can, something that you did that was challenging, right? And if you need specific assistance with an exercise, we can talk about it. We can give options at the end of class that you can use. And so with this person with lower back issues, maybe they need to take a private or stay after class one day to figure out what is their teaser. So maybe it is a modified teaser, but maybe it's actually double straight leg stretch, or maybe it's that they do swimming instead, right? What is it that they do? And then that way they are empowered to be autonomous and independent. And I promise you, it is going you will survive people doing different things at the same time, because they're gonna feel so good, and they're gonna come and go. That was the best class, and it's gonna make you love what you're doing, because now you're actually affecting real change in them, and not just like, well, let's just bend their knees and now they can do it, right? Like, that's, like, that's a Rachel Taylor Siegel, highly recommend everybody watches Taylor Made on Pilates Anytime you can use LLogan for a 30-day trial. It's in the Legacy Project. And what I learned from Rachel Taylor Siegel, she said, let's talk about modifications. She said modifications are like borrowing money from the bank. Some loans have higher interest rates than other loans, right? So if you get an SBA loan, you're looking at a couple percent, like real low, and so it's really easy to pay that loan off over time. In fact, that loan allows your business to grow, and so that kind of a loan is like going not just accelerate you, but just strengthen your business, gonna allow you to create a really good foundation, right? Versus a payday loan, those like 40% interest loans, or 30% interest loans, or the credit cards, the ones we get in the mail with our amazing credit score. It's like, why would I sign up for this 35% credit card? Are you crazy?Brad Crowell 18:09  Yeah, I did get one for for 29.99 Yeah, or 30. It was like, it was like shocking. Lesley Logan 18:19  That's it when I was in college and college when I had no credit. Brad Crowell 18:22  I never saw one that high ever. Lesley Logan 18:22  I guess that's true. I think it was like 18%. Brad Crowell 18:23  Yeah, they were like, 20% everyone's like, oh my God, they're stealing from you. Now they're, now they're like, 30 and it's normal. I'm like, holy cow, bananas. Lesley Logan 18:30  Yeah, you'll know, yes, so, but that, so just take that bananas and then think about that as a modification for an exercise. So now we're stealing from them. Now we're actually not providing them with the ability to ever not need that modification. In fact, they will have to keep just like those payday loans.Brad Crowell 18:45  Ever not, never, not. So they will always need the modification. Lesley Logan 18:45  Yeah, just like, well, if you let me finish my sentence, it was going to be just like when you do the payday loans once, what I've heard, what I've understood, is why they're so bad is that once you need them, you automatically need the next one and the next one, because now you're like, stuck, you're stuck and you're in debt. So my dear, thank you for this question. I hope it gave you something to think about. If you're an OPC member and you have a lower back issue, you can actually film yourself doing an exercise. You, actually, it could be any issue, but you can film yourself doing an exercise, and I can give you feedback on it. We don't answer client questions in OPC because it's all about you. So there's that. But if you guys have questions, go to beitpod.com/questions to send in your win or your questions, we'll answer them here, and we'll shout your wins out on Friday. beitpod.com/questions. Brad Crowell 19:30  Stick around. We'll be right back. We're gonna dig into that convo with Kate Galli. Brad Crowell 19:38  Okay, let's talk about Kate Galli. Kate is a health coach, author and podcast host who's passionate, who is passionate about helping vegans and plant-based curious people live the with strength, confidence and joy. After years of working in both fitness and in the mindset space, Kate now helps others create meaningful lifestyle changes by aligning their health goals with their values. She's the creator of Strong Body, Green Planet, and host of the Healthification Podcast, where she shares strategies for powerful, compassionate living through her signature ABC method. Kate focuses on building habits that not only feel good, but also do good for the mind, for the body and for the planet.Lesley Logan 20:24  Okay, I thought she was so cool, because, first of all, a lot of what she is talking about with her journey of being a vegan, and then where she's at now is a lot of be it till you see it in like being vegan-curious or plant-based curious. I think a lot of us could lend ourselves to at least, if you're not going to go full vegan considering, like, what changes you can make for the planet. I think we all have to be considerate of that. You'll also be considerate of your body and what you're allergic to and all those things. So don't at me. I can't eat that because I got this allergy. I see you okay. In fact, Kate sees you because she's not an angry vegan anymore.Brad Crowell 20:59  Yeah, that's the thing that was like, I, actually, I'm not gonna lie, like I was listening to it. I was like, okay, you know, I'm in and then she shared her story, and I was like, wow, you know. And if you, if you, if you haven't gone back and listened to the episode, it is gut-wrenching and powerful. And she says it quickly, relatively quickly, but it's worth a listen. So go back and take a listen to Kate's story. Lesley Logan 21:25  I think the cadence of this episode coming out after Stephanie O'Dea's slow living episode is really important, because there's a couple things like, that, I'm like, I'm thinking about with Kate that kind of can go back to Stephanie. First of all, you cannot shame or judge yourself into a goal, right? And so and and, and. Brad Crowell 21:46  Nor can you shame others into a goal.Lesley Logan 21:49  Correct. And Kate said, we get this drive and this focus and this purpose, we just go and go and go. And she's like, it's effective until it isn't. And that's the same thing that, like Stephanie was saying, like, we we, like, want to go, like, so fast, but like, things will happen in time. And so she transformed in this, like, angry vegan. And then she became more compassionate, because she realized her approach was actually not effective in convincing anyone. In fact. Brad Crowell 22:13  Also, she was like, fried emotionally, like, so fried. She was like, I can't, I can't even be the angry, you know, like, person that I was anymore. I just can't do it.Lesley Logan 22:24  Yeah, I think, like, how many of us have been, like, so passionate about something that we get angry? I know I do. I know I do not talk politics with some of my family members because I get so angry that they cannot see the perspective that I see it from. I just can't I, like, literally, I'm just like, I'm losing, I'm missing out on that part of my life, because I need to figure this out for myself, because I cannot be compassionate in this moment. But you know what? I'm giving myself permission, that's okay. But I think it's like, she, she really, where she was able to change to is being a lot more compassionate, and then that allowed her to be more helpful in helping other people see ways that they can become vegan, or ways that they can make things a little bit more plant-based, or be or just change the way that they want to work out so that they're now it's almost like, it's like, you can't, you don't get, you can't get bunny like, bees about honey, like that kind of a thing? Brad Crowell 23:22  Yeah, you did mention that on the interview, and then you apologized for all the vegans out there who aren't necessarily in a honey. Lesley Logan 23:29  I know. Brad Crowell 23:30  I had a good laugh about that. Lesley Logan 23:32  Well, some are not okay with honey.Brad Crowell 23:35  Yes, no, it's you're, you're not wrong, but I just thought it was a really funny analogy in the moment. But you're right. You know, you get more bees with honey than you do, you know, without. So, you know, it's the kind of like the kill them with kindness, kind of a yeah approach. And I think.Lesley Logan 23:51  I really hated that growing up, my mom always, like, kill with kindness. And I'm like, that's not working.Brad Crowell 23:59  But, but, you know, she talked about the frustration with the relationship with her father, and how, like she was able to learn from her mom, you know, and how her mom's approach shifted her own approach, you know, out and about in the world.Lesley Logan 24:22  Yeah. And I also want to say, because she said, whatever we care about yelling at people about how wrong they are is never going to get them to want to join us. I just want you to know that, like I still believe you should protest, because it's not about convincing the person driving by. It's about convincing the politicians we're protesting again. So I just want to say protests matter, but. Brad Crowell 24:39  Yeah, they do. Lesley Logan 24:40  But if your neighbor isn't seeing how the way that they're voting or the way that they're eating or the way that they're you know, mowing their lawn in the middle of the night is affecting things that you care about. Yelling at them isn't going to get them to stop. You do have to figure out. You have to understand a little bit more about why they think the way they think, or why they do the way they do, so you can actually have a compassionate conversation that allows them to see how what you're trying to offer them is going to help the same goal that they have.Brad Crowell 25:08  That's actually really interesting. And I wonder about the etymology of these words here now, because I was thinking passion doesn't necessarily equal anger, even though it's associated with with high energy. And then you just said the word compassion, which is more in line with what we want. Compassion still includes the word passion. So, you know. Lesley Logan 25:29  Do you ever want to take, like, an etymology class? I want to take a handwriting class. They don't teach kids anymore, but I want to learn, and I want to take an etymology class.Brad Crowell 25:40  Well, so, but you know, like you can still be passionate without being angry. You can be compassionate and have passion, you know. So I think, you know, shifting her approach has sounds to me like a it's made her more effective, and it sounds like just a happier person.Lesley Logan 26:01  Yeah, she she is so lovely. Brad Crowell 26:04  So, good for her. Lesley Logan 26:04  And I will say, like, ever since I've talked with her, I've been really more thoughtful about, what are we eating? Do we need that? How? How do I get 150 grams of protein a day if I'm not having chicken? What does that look like? You know. Brad Crowell 26:18  I love that you were digging into how to get protein. You were talking about on the episode of like. Lesley Logan 26:24  Yeah, I asked her. I was like, I need. Brad Crowell 26:26  Like, what do I do? What's a side? What's a dessert? What's it? What? How do we do this? You know? And she, she did make the parallel between, you know, like, let's say there's like, a muscle dude at the gym, and if he decides to go plant-based, switching from like, steaks to, you know, she said he's got to be eating something comparable in, you know, that's going to fill him up, or he will just lose weight. You know, there's no question about that, but there are ways to do it, and that's what kind of, that's when the conversation really went down that rabit hole in a good way. Lesley Logan 26:26  Many, many bodybuilders who are plant-based like. Brad Crowell 26:26  I mean, Eddie. Our friend Eddie is like, six-three and was, like, a football player in the, you know, he's.Lesley Logan 26:37  Yeah, I think he's like a be it till you see it. You have to, like. Brad Crowell 27:09  In the military, guy's a beast. You know, he was a vegan for, I don't know, I think seven or eight years, like, solid. But he would eat like, half a freaking lasagna a night, you know,Lesley Logan 27:20  Right. Like, you have to get calories Well, and that's all kinds of calories, but I think it's just being intentional. And I think what I again, why I wanted to have her on, is it's a be it till you see it approach, like she has those baby steps, which allows you to, kind of, like, figure it out.Brad Crowell 27:35  Well, when she was talking about the ABC method, I thought it was pretty clever. She said, she, you know, when she was going through this personal transformation, she came up with this method that helped her prioritize her happiness and find a more effective way to pursue her purpose, more effective meaning people would listen. And she said, moving from angry, which was ineffective, to compassionate, which is effective. Her method is called the ABC method, and so A stands for awareness, B stands for brainstorm, and C stands for commitment. So she's, awareness, she's recognizing the negative trajectory of continuing down her current path. B, she's brainstorming, identifying ways to stop the habits that she used to do. And specifically she was talking about posting on Instagram, like posting angry stories, setting herself up to be attacked, even though she believes very strong, strongly in these things, you know. But and then she shifted, and she said, hmm, I wonder if, instead of sharing all the negative stories, I could share positive stories and see how that would have an impact. Right? So she began sharing happy stories and making vegan recipes, sharing vegan recipes that actually taste amazing to you know, like present an option that, instead of creating shame and like frustration, trying to guilt people into, you know, whatever, instead it's like, hey, did you know that it can actually be amazing? Did you know that it can taste awesome? You know? And so she started sharing recipes, and she said her third step is commitment, making a public commitment to the new approach, you know, drawing a line in the sand and saying, hey, I'm making this decision. So good for her. I love that ABC method. You know, I thought that was I thought it was clever. I thought it was a great way to, like, actually create a line in the sand of your life and be like, I've made this decision to change this thing. Lesley Logan 29:41  I think it can be used for so many things. Her ABC method, it's so you can just, it's just great. And it's also part of, like, how we learn, just, it's from the mindset training that I did it's very aligned with, like, how people's mindsets can be changed. Loved it. Loved it all.Brad Crowell 29:57  Awesome. Well, stick around. We'll be right back. We're gonna dig into those Be It Action Items. Brad Crowell 30:03  Welcome back. We're gonna get into these Be It Action Items with Kate Galli. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Kate? She said, if you want to make it easy to incorporate plant-based proteins into your meals, she shares she's got a 5s strategy, okay? She describes it as a way of setting it into your meals. Here are the five S's, star, scatter over, stir through, side and source. What does this mean? Star means plant-based protein is the main component of the meal, meaning lentils in a curry, or marinated tofu. So you've got your star ingredient, effectively, that's what the star means. Scattering over by adding plant-based protein sources such as hemp seeds or pumpkin seeds over your regular meal. So once you've got your meal, you can put something on top of it, and that also adds more protein. You can stir it through mixing plant-based protein, plant-based protein powder, say that five times fast, into a meal or a drink. I mean, this is pretty straightforward. Think about like a smoothie in the morning or soup or cereal. Lesley Logan 31:13  I even, even I put protein in my coffee because I'm trying to get so much protein in, I put it in my coffee with my creatine and my fiber, guys, because, you know, like, that's just a hard thing to get to.Brad Crowell 31:26  And the collagen.Lesley Logan 31:27  Yeah, like, I put it all in there, and it's in this my tasty coffee. And it's actually gotten me to stop going out to get coffee, because they won't have what I need to put in it. And I got to put all this in it. So.Brad Crowell 31:33  That's true. You could also have it as a side, having a portion of a plant-based protein on your side, such as edamame or crispy chickpeas. And I know you're a huge fan of crispy chickpeas. We literally got some after this interview, ourselves. Lesley Logan 31:50  I'm obsessed with crispy chick. I wonder how we can make it ourselves. I'm sure we could just do an air fryer. It is, guys, 50 chickpeas is like 10 grams of protein or something like that. Maybe it's only six, but I think it's 10. At any rate, it's like, two handfuls and it you're fuller than if you had snacked on some chips, right? And I got.Brad Crowell 32:08  It's also not like, it's not bad for you, like, you know, deep fried chips or something. Lesley Logan 32:12  And it's good for the environment. I can't have potatoes, so I have been, I like, have been like, over here, what? I just want to snack on a little munchie, and I can have those. Brad Crowell 32:22  Crispy chickpeas, all right. And then source. Finally, the last S is source, using sauces made with protein-rich ingredients, which could include, like self silken tofu, or you could put edamame inside the guacamole. Lesley Logan 32:36  Yes, where is this town that we used to get that guacamole that had edamame? Brad Crowell 32:40  Oh, it was, it was they have one. Lesley Logan 32:43  Oh, True Food. Brad Crowell 32:44  True Food. Lesley Logan 32:44  True Food. Yeah, and then they mess with those chips. So annoying. But the edamame with the. with the guac with edamame is there, and it's great.Brad Crowell 32:54  Pretty tasty. I dig it. But yeah, what about you? Lesley Logan 32:56  Okay, she said, if you haven't, if you haven't figured out what your personal values are, you need to because you gotta elicit them. She said, your values are the emotional states you're naturally drawn to, like love, freedom, truth or integrity. And so when you are planning your day or making decisions like, your values are these filters for those things and you need to align them with your most important goal or vision, and so even more importantly, align them with your daily actions. We actually talk about values a lot in Agency. Talk about it a lot in our business, coaching retreats and things like that. And so I love this. In fact, I just led a values webinar for Agency members. It'll be in the curriculum so you can figure out what are your values? Because it's like, well, what are, what are, how do you choose them? Like, I have to, you know, have to have names for it. What is it? So you can, Agency members can check that out. But I love this Be It Action Item. Elicit your own personal values if you haven't yet. Kate Galli.Brad Crowell 33:49  You know, it's funny. I thought it was interesting to compare this to a business, right? We talk about this for business owners, you got to know your mission, vision, values. I never thought about it once about my personal values. Lesley Logan 34:04  What? Brad Crowell 34:05  Yeah. Lesley Logan 34:06  Brad? Really? Brad Crowell 34:08  Well, in the same way I've never been like, here are my five values that matter the most to Brad. You know, I always think about it through the lens of my company first. So I thought it was interesting. Lesley Logan 34:20  We gotta do that. You gotta, you gotta do the exercise.Brad Crowell 34:24  We gotta do the exercise, y'all, I gotta sprinkle in some values. I'm gonna, I'm sourcing them now, but I'm gonna sprinkle them in, scattering them over.Lesley Logan 34:31  It won't be that complicated, because, I mean, we have different values, but my values were how the business's values came about. They were like, they're not exactly the same, but it's like another word for it that would be more business-like than what my personal values are, but I think that you get to, you get to do the exercise. Keep us posted on your Be It Action Item, babe.Brad Crowell 34:54  Sounds like a plan. Lesley Logan 34:54  I'm Lesley Logan. Brad Crowell 34:54  And I'm Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 34:54  Thank you so much for being here. How are you going to use these tips in your life? We want to know, we want to know what you what your takeaways are. We want you to send them in to the beitpod.com/questions, share this episode with a friend who needs to hear it. That's how this podcast continues to grow, so we can continue getting amazing guests. Brad Crowell 35:15  And if you haven't yet, leave us a five star review, please. Lesley Logan 35:16  Yes, that is like a gift. Brad Crowell 35:16  It's a huge gift.Lesley Logan 35:19  I know it's hard to do. I know it's hard to figure out where to do it, but if you could just do it, because here's the deal, we want to get some amazing guests, but we actually have to tell them where our podcast stands. Because people are busy, and they want to know if it's even worth their time. And so every download matters, but also.Brad Crowell 35:36  And every time you share the episodes, it matters every time, every time. We're so grateful. So thanks for doing all that. Lesley Logan 35:42  Yeah, all right, until next time, Be It Till You See It. Brad Crowell 35:44  Bye for now. Lesley Logan 35:46  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Brad Crowell 36:28  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 36:33  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 36:38  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 36:45  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 36:48  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Welcome back to 'Don't Cut Your Own Bangs!'    In this lively and heartfelt episode, Danielle Ireland chats with Ashlyn Thompson from the Parent Empowerment Network. Ashlyn shares her journey from growing her nonprofit organization to the emotional rollercoaster of her daughter's complex medical journey.    Get ready to explore how pain can be an unexpected teacher, the magic of community support, and why tapping into creativity can be your secret weapon against anxiety. Filled with laughs, valuable insights, and touching moments, this episode is a treasure trove of wisdom and joy. Tune in and enjoy the ride!   00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview 00:20 Ashlyn Thompson's Journey and Nonprofit Growth 01:10 The Importance of Community and Support 01:37 Embracing Big Feelings and Finding Joy 02:52 Welcoming Ashlyn Back and Discussing Growth 05:44 Navigating Pain and Empowerment 09:51 The Power of Perspective and Decision Making 14:27 Balancing Life and Nonprofit Work 21:21 The Role of Pain as a Teacher 30:48 Finding Comfort in Movement and Nature 33:09 Returning to Basics 33:35 Reflecting on Past Decisions 35:20 The Role of Pain and Fear 38:20 Parent Empowerment Network 44:25 Creativity as a Lifeline 49:21 Embracing Emotions 53:07 Don't Cut Your Own Bangs Moment 01:01:20 Conclusion and Resources   Ashlyn Thompson interview links Ashlyn Thompson, a passionate advocate and storyteller, is co-founder of the Parent Empowerment Network, a nonprofit providing emotional and mental health support to parents navigating pediatric medical complexities. She also co-hosts theEmpowered by Hope podcast, which equips parents with practical tools, resources, and a strong sense of community—delivered with a heavy dose of humor and hope to empower them as their child's best advocate. Ashlyn's fire for advocacy was ignited by her daughter Emery, who was born with bladder exstrophy. After Emery nearly died following a major surgery at just seven weeks old, Ashlyn became a fierce voice for patient safety. Unwilling to accept the limitations of domestic medical care, she discovered a surgical option in the U.K. that wasn't available in the U.S. at the time. In early 2023, Emery became the first American to undergo this procedure—and thanks to Ashlyn's relentless advocacy, that surgery is now available in America. When she's not advocating or recording podcasts, Ashlyn moonlights as a budding driveway chalk artist, chaos coordinator for her spirited family, and an avid nature lover. Chocolate is her daily vitamin, ADHD is her superpower, spiders and small talk are her sworn enemies, and she firmly believes laughter and boldness are two of a parent's greatest tools.   Parent Empowerment Network:  The Parent Empowerment Network exists to support, encourage, and educate parents of children with medical complexities—empowering them with community, knowledge, and confidence to be their child's fiercest advocate. www.ParentEmpowermentNetwork.org Empowered by Hope podcast on all major podcast streaming platforms: https://parentempowermentnetwork.org/podcast/   Social Media:  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Parent-Empowerment-Network/100083218456295/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/parentempowermentnetwork/   She is Charlotte book by co-founder, Emily Whiting:https://parentempowermentnetwork.org/she-is-charlotte-book/ DANIELLE IRELAND, LCSW I greatly appreciate your support and engagement as part of the Don't Cut Your Own Bangs community. Feel free to reach out with questions, comments, or anything you'd like to share. You can connect with me at any of the links below.   Website: https://danielleireland.com/   The Treasured Journal: https://danielleireland.com/journal   Substack: https://danielleireland.substack.com/   Blog: https://danielleireland.com/blog/   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danielleireland_lcsw   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/danielleireland.LCSW   Podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@danielleireland8218/featured “Don't Cut Your Own Bangs” is about creating a community around, and familiarity with, the messy middle—that uncertain and often chaotic and uncomfortable time in the middle of a process or journey. The messy middle is replete with ambiguity and challenges, but it's also where the hard and rewarding work happens.   Transcript [00:00:00] Danielle: Hello. Hello, this is Danielle Ireland and you are watching or listening to Don't Cut Your Own Bangs. I am so excited to be back in the interview seat. We've done some solo cast. It's been a blast. But Ashlyn Thompson is here with me today, and we just wrapped an incredible conversation. Ashlyn came on as a guest to talk about her work with Charlotte's Hope Foundation a couple of years ago. [00:00:26] She was about ready to embark right in the interview we were, she was. Days away from embarking on a trip to the UK for her daughter having a surgery with the only surgeon in the world who performed the specific type of surgery that her daughter needed. Her daughter's made a full recovery. It's a beautiful story we're gonna get into in this episode, but what I'm truly, if you could imagine even beyond that beautiful story, what I'm so excited to introduce to you and to that I was so grateful to witness and learn from. [00:00:53] Is that Ashlyn has grown her nonprofit organization, not no money in organization, but yes, a nonprofit organization that at the time, two years ago when we last checked in with her, was called Charlotte's Hope Foundation. It has grown. It's expanded, and it's evolved, and it's now the Parent Empowerment Network. [00:01:10] She and her co-founder also have a podcast for that same work, and what I love about the work that they do. They create community connection space and resources for parents and families raising children or any provider helping a child navigate medical complexities. And that sounds like such a hard and heavy and challenging topic. [00:01:33] And it is. But what Ashlyn embodies is. The work that I really wanted to bring to this season and this new phase of don't cut your own bangs, which I want big feelings to feel less scary. I want approaching them to feel possible. And then with that in mind, wherever possible, as much as possible, finding lightness, levity, and joy. [00:01:54] However we can do it. And I'm telling you, in this episode we did that. We accomplished that. We talk about important things, we talk about heavy things, and Ashland is vulnerable in a way that is inviting. But also something we can all learn from. And through the specificity of her life experience and what she's learned, there are universal nuggets that we can all find value in. [00:02:17] I know I did, and this was such a beautiful place to share, and we laughed. We had joy, we smiled . I hope that this topic invites you and encourages you to lean in and tune in because there are so many great nuggets of this. Thank you for being here, and I can't wait for you to sit back, relax, and enjoy. [00:02:38] Ashlyn Thompson [00:02:39] Hi. Yes, I know. Big jumps for both of us. I know. I feel like we're, it does feel like a lifetime ago. It I mean, in many ways it is. It's like we're, I mean, I'm still, me and all the key players are still playing. Right. But it does feel like a different life in a way. And I, with that in mind, I just wanna officially welcome you back. [00:02:55] Yes. Welcome. Ashlyn Thompson. Oh, thank. Don't cut your own bangs. I am so excited that you're here for many reasons, but the thing I'm most excited about is I think that. Building something or starting something creates a certain amount of effort and energy. Sustaining something, growing with it, breathing new life into it, that's a different part of a different element of a creative process. [00:03:17] And that's something I think specifically I'm really excited to talk to you about because you're parent Empowerment Network, which has it, it exists to support, encourage and educate parents and caregivers of children with medical complexities. And that was, it already was in existence when we, right, when we recorded the first time. [00:03:34] But it has grown. Grown. I went to a gala, people, she's throwing a gala fundraiser for her for her network. And so, I mean, I wanna hear about all the twists and all the developments of that, but more specifically the context I wanna provide for us and for this conversation. The thing that I'm really excited about, , and why I feel really passionate about bringing this to video. [00:03:57] Is that I want to help make big feelings feel less scary. Yeah. And I want to make, approaching them feel possible. And then with that in mind as much and as often as possible, laugh as much as possible. Amen. And so, right? So like, you are swimming in the trenches with people and even in your own life with people who are holding and making space for heavy things. [00:04:23] Yes. And yet there is a bright smile on your face. There's a twinkle in your eye. You laugh and you smile. And I wanna, and I don't know how to articulate what that is, but I want to, I wanna, that's something I wanna make space for in this conversation too. So it's important and it's big and it's emotional for sure, but also like, let's allow levity too. [00:04:42] Absolutely. I am so excited to be continuing our conversation, and I'm also really happy to know that. The person who's sitting here with you today is very much a different person from two years ago. And I feel like I have gone through multiple versions of myself just in the past two years. And that's one of the things that I truly celebrate about, not just the journey of parent empowerment network, but I think just growing and evolving as a human spirit, experiencing this life is recognizing that I say this phrase to only certain people, but I act, I feel compelled to share it now. [00:05:26] I feel like I have died a thousand times. And greeted so many versions of myself. But every time I rise into that extroversion and realize who I am, I like that person more and more. And. I feel like one of my greatest accomplishments just this past year has been truly settling into a, knowing a deep belief that life is meant to grow through, not go through. [00:05:58] And that change, that pivot of how I see the next big thing that comes up has been such a grounding force for me and has really helped me feel like I'm actually sitting in the driver's seat of my car. I don't know what I'm going to pass as I'm on this highway. In life. And sometimes life yanks me off on an exit I didn't plan. [00:06:23] And those exit ramps are typically the next lesson. But I'm grateful to be at a point where I can now see the next really hard thing emerging and not wanna hit reverse. Wow. Wow. Not that I like it all the time. No, God. But I can appreciate that this isn't out to crush me. This isn't here to take me down like I used to feel. [00:06:53] , Wow. There's a lot to unpack there for. Thank you so much for sharing that, but also not going in reverse. I wanna make a mental note, not going in reverse. The next version of me, I like better, and this is not here to crush me. Right. The, there's something, I got chills. I got full body chills when you, the la with the last thing that you said, because when I'm working with clients, there is this element and this is something. [00:07:18] I promise I'll come back to that original point there. There's an element of the work that I do where, and I'm sure you get this in your own way too, with like hearing stories from families who are holding really hard and heavy things. I think when I meet people for the first time, a common response is, wow, I don't know how you do what you do, or I don't know how you listen to that all day. [00:07:36] Or Oh man, and I think, yes, sure. There, there are certainly days and clients or moments where those stories are making space for people's big, heavy, painful experiences. Right. Is can be a lot at times. Far less anymore. But I think more than anything the va like, I feel so lucky to have the experience a hundred maybe even thousands of times over hurt people's pain. [00:08:03] And I know what pain sounds like. Yes. And there are different types and one thing that I absolutely believe to be true is that our pain is not personal. Our story is personal, right? But pain is not personal. And the events of our life, even things that happen to us, it's, there's it's almost shifting out of a, and I hope I can say this within the context that, that is heard with love. [00:08:27] But shifting out of a victim mentality right into it. Because being victimized or being stricken with grief or holding something hard like that is absolutely real. And also knowing that this is happening to me, but this is not gosh, what are the words I'm trying to find. It, what I'm hearing is you recognize how hard this is. [00:08:51] Whatever that insert blank. I recognize how hard this is, and I'm not going to make this pain so precious that I don't also see it as temporary. Yes, exactly. But there's something, so I think there's something really powerful and there's so much nuance to that because I certainly don't want to, people can be victimized, but the victim mentality is one of, in my professional experience it's one of the more challenging headspace to, for someone to walk out of. [00:09:21] Agree. It's really hard. Exactly. It shrinks your world. So, so much. That's well said. And we experience that very often. We really fo I mean we say all the time, you know, we are non diagnosis specific, non prognosis specific with the families that we work with, and we focus on the parents or the parent role, which could be performed by a sibling, a grandparent, a friend, an adopt, a lot of different people, but. [00:09:51] What we really found early in our journey and what helped us evolve into parent empowerment network was that recognition that, like you pointed out, pain is not it's not customized to your experience. The feeling, the emotional and physical experience relationship with pain is common through all of us, and it actually is a way that we can connect with each other when we recognize that. [00:10:18] When we stop comparing one another's pains. Now, don't get me wrong, if your kid got a bump on the head versus your kid needs a, you know, brain surgery. Right. Those are different. Yes. Very different. Yes. But most of the time we're not dealing with that. And what we have found is that when somebody is in that victim mentality, which is understandable, I think that's a, very important aspect to acknowledge when you're feeling like a victim, why is this happening to me? Or why is this happening to my child? Because I'll be the first to say, it's never okay when your child is hurting or sick or in harm's way or worse. I will never be okay with it. But when we say stuck in a victim mentality, our ability to problem solve goes from about here to here. [00:11:08] Yeah. And then your child is really the one who suffers. And I hate, it's a hard truth. But we have to face that truth because when we can help a parent start to find glimmers of hope, start to see that there's a way to build on quality of life rather than cure. Then you start to see this new version emerge where they are truly, you know, empowered advocates for their child. [00:11:45] There's something that I heard in what you said too, that a lot of times when I'm working with clients who are maybe knee deep in anxiety or depression, for example. I think why can be a powerful question, but I think a misplaced why is a really exactly damaging question. Like, why me? Why them? [00:12:02] Why this, why now? Because those are questions you can't answer that only lead to a defeating answer. Exactly. And usually another question or shame, but what I'm hearing a lot in when you. When you can kind of broaden your focus and sort of release that constriction from why you then can open yourself up to a different type of question. [00:12:23] How can I, exactly. How can I get through today? How can I get through this moment? What is needed most of me now? What do I need now? Right. And those types of the what and the how. Who do I need to show up for? Is it me? Right. Is it them? Who do I need to ask for help? Who has information that I need? [00:12:43] Those types of questions don't eliminate the pain, but it broadens the scope Yes. Of, of your field of vision. And I know that though, like, 'cause you are here in many ways. Oh, I hope it's okay to use this term. But I hope that you're here as an expert and you're also the executive Hope director of of the power impairment network. [00:13:05] And I think a lot of times. What we would imagine as the worst possible case scenario. Like the worst thing we could imagine would be something happening to our kids. This has been your lived experience. This has been your business partner's lived experience. And for, even though you have a podcast as well, where you really create a space and content and a community that helps people with that very specific set of circumstances, that Right. [00:13:33] I would imagine it's like. The best and worst club to be a part of. So we always say, we're so sorry you're in this club. Yes. But we're so glad you found us. Yes. Like it's the yes, we're really sorry, but at the same time, like, welcome home, welcome. And so I think a lot of the, a lot of the people who tune in to don't cut your own bang, I don't know how many would have this specific life experience. [00:13:57] Right. And if you do, oh my gosh, what a gorgeous resource you have in Ashlyn. Oh, thank you. And the Parent empowerment network and their podcast. But I do think that even in something like this, in within the specificity of everything you're saying, there is such a broad truth that I think we can all access and find value in. [00:14:16] And, yeah. So just thank you for all of that. And I want to, okay. I wanna shift a little bit to the growth of the parent Empowerment network. Right. Because, so when I originally started this podcast, what I was, what I really motivated me, one was I was terrified of becoming a therapist and having worked as a creative, and I just wanted to surround myself with other people who, who were building things, right? So that I could sort of sneak in my own needy questions. Like, how did you do it? How did you figure it out? What happened when you were scared? Like, what happened when your computer crashed? Oh my gosh. And you went from newly building something to, you have really grown. [00:14:53] Yes. You have really grown. And I wanna know having experienced the, you know, the gala that Right. That you that you threw that was so lovely. I wanna know . What led to the growth over the last two years? Because you're still momming, you're still life. Yeah. Your daughter is still being you. [00:15:08] I mean, like your life is still life and Yes. Life is still lifeing. How, in the midst of your lifeing, how have you also continued to grow this? And I really wanna know like what fueled your fire. And just tell me more about that story please. Yes, absolutely. So at the beginning of this, you know, when we started talking, you were very talking about how I'm sitting here smiling and I mean, I am fully, I am genuinely full of joy in this moment. [00:15:35] And I think I know actually that comes from being in something like we have with Parent Empowerment Network, which has been truly its own huge like business, right? We are called a nonprofit, but let me tell you, I mean, it is straight up business. [00:15:57] Is what it is in a lot of ways, and. That's the worst possible name for a tax category. It totally is. Because it's so confusing. Nonprofit doesn't mean no money. Right. Exactly. It's so confusing. We do not exist for free. Is great an idea as that sounds. I want that to be the slogan for every nonprofit. [00:16:16] I just, 'cause we don't exist for free. Right. You know the whole, you get what you pay for. It's, yeah. That's a whole other conversation. We're not gonna spend too much time there today. We should have a part two then. There we go. I'm okay with that. All right. So for that, what I think the biggest lesson that has. [00:16:33] Emerged from this journey just since we were, you know, you and I were talking a couple years ago when we were actually still called Charlotte's Hope Foundation. Yes. Which was our initial name. Yes. Because we had an idea for something that was this big at the beginning. And the name Charlotte's Hope Foundation fit that in theory. [00:16:52] But the thing I'm most proud of my, of Emily Whiting, who's my co-founder, fellow mom, fellow sister, fellow savior, at times the best thing we have done is allowed ourselves permission to grow and shrink as needed. And that's what we've done throughout this journey. It has not been a step process. [00:17:15] There have been countless times where we have grown two or three steps, been bigger, you know, working with international teams of surgeons, pulling together collaborations that have never been done, and then. There have been times where we have pulled back and we haven't released an episode for six weeks. [00:17:33] We have had maybe two or three social posts because our lives were on fire or just demanded all our attention, but it didn't mean we had to stop. I need to, oh my gosh. I don't know how many of you listening or watching can relate to that. I, there is a relationship I have with the expansion and contraction of output where if I'm not putting something out, producing something, making something that it really does a number on my sense of self worth. Right. And self esteem. And that is something that I'm still actively healing and repairing, because I definitely know the facts. I know. The really bumper stickery, self helpy sounding talk. [00:18:26] And I believe it. It's not that I, I don't hear it and think like, yeah. Right. It's just that there's a more practiced version of me, right. That has just had more at bats operating in a certain way. And then life in many ways rewards you for that. In theory. In theory. And I don't mean the like the laurels, like you get the the kudos pat on the back accolades but there is a cost, right? [00:18:47] There is a cost. And I think, in the I this past year I wrote a children's book called Wrestling a Walrus. And this the act of writing this book was something that I didn't realize that in the contraction, or even like in the I love the visual of the caterpillar becoming the butterfly. [00:19:09] 'Cause there's a two week process where the caterpillar is literally, we talk about the messy middle in this podcast and think, thank you Brene Brown, wherever you are for creating language and context for us for this very conversation. 'cause so much of this is inspired by that, but that gooey, mushy middle where it's not a butterfly, it's literally goo and it's Exactly, and it, and, but in that place, there is magic happening there. [00:19:33] Even if it, even though it looks like a pile of shit, right. Like, it's, there's magic happening there. I'll say the impetus or the inspiration, the. It was tough moments with my daughter, moments where I didn't feel like I was doing anything. Right. It like hitting the wrecking ball of, you know, being a parent of a toddler and a parent of an infant like that was, there's not enough grace in any space to help you go through that without serious, you know, support. [00:20:02] There were, I had some victim mentality at that point in time, even, and all things can be true at once. But all of that was what I experienced before I had the idea to write the book. And had I not had that experience, I wouldn't have been able to do that. Exactly. I don't think it would've been the same. [00:20:16] And [00:20:16] , and I promise this whole podcast isn't an ad for the book, but like, I really believe in this damn book and I love it so much. And I love that you talk about that expansion and contraction for yourself. And that you doesn't, it doesn't mean you have to stop. 'cause I think a big reason why I maybe avoided picking up the torch again and doing this podcast like I left it for so long, or I abandoned it for so long, or can I still do it right? [00:20:41] Like all of that stuff. And then yeah it. Yeah. Doubt doesn't mean you're done. No. And taking a pause doesn't mean you're stopping forever. But yeah. I mean, you can't just exhale forever. You can't just output like you eventually have to breathe in. Exactly. And that relationship is very necessary. [00:21:00] And so, I mean, everything you're saying is exactly what I need. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. And it, that lesson doesn't come easily. Nope. But I think another element of that, you know, building off of what you were just talking about, pain and discomfort and naturally shying away from it. [00:21:21] I challenge anybody in life to just take a moment to consider pain as a potential teacher, as a professor, rather than pain as an enemy, or pain as a destroyer. Right. If you ask yourself. Why does this feel painful? Because how many times do we all experience in our life something that really gets under our skin, but whether it's a spouse or it's a friend or a coworker and they seem totally unfazed by it, [00:21:56] and that used to be something that bothered me. I was kinda like what's, am I ever sensitive? Or like, what is my thing? And I grew up always hearing, not necessarily even from my parents, but I feel like. Teacher schools and saved by the bell commercials about find what you love in life and you'll never work a day in your life. [00:22:16] And that was great in theory, but I'm a very eclectic person. Yep. I love a lot. And all I was getting was a lot of burnout. That's also like saying like, love your kids and you'll never have a hard day with them in your life. You're like, no bs. No. I love my kids. But like, you know, oh my gosh, kids are the greatest, hardest thing of life. [00:22:33] Right. Right. But I think the same is true. Like , I never stopped loving this. Right. But I don't always have control over the life around. Right. But it's a, I think allowing things to be a part of you, not all of you, is really important. Yeah. And I think it's so easy to define ourselves by that output. [00:22:53] For me and Emily, the word is often it's impact. Are we actually making an impact? And the thing that helped us. Become okay with hitting the pause button when we needed to, and not officially throwing in the towel. Don't get me wrong, there were conversations about it, but we were always very honest with each other and we held each other accountable that if you are feeling like this is not jiving with your life, if it's not jiving with you personally, or it's not good for your family at this moment, let's hit the pause button and talk about it. [00:23:26] But realizing that if we only help each other while working on this, Emily and I, that's helping our kids, that's helping our families. And there's a domino effect from that goes from that. And if that's all we ever do, what's bad about that? You said something that I, it still stuck with me and it will probably be the title of this episode. [00:23:49] Pain is a Professor. Yes, it is. And I wanna go back to that because something that I talk about in my sessions a lot is that your emotions never lie to you. Now your thoughts are very different. Yes. Your thoughts can go a, now granted, we need to think critical thinking is important. [00:24:04] We probably need more critical thinking, but thoughts happen to us all day, every day, constantly. Right. I don't remember what the statistic is. I think we have roughly like eight thoughts a minute, something like that. I'm surprised it's not . Maybe that's just a DH adhd. And that could be too, like, yeah, there, maybe there's a spectrum. [00:24:18] Maybe it's eight to 80 thoughts a minute. Give or take. Give or take a hundred. But so thoughts happen to us now. We can certainly consciously choose what to focus on and what we think. But thinking happens, the emotions are in response to what we're thinking and believing. Exactly. And they never lie. [00:24:35] Right. And I But something you said like pain as a professor. And I like the thought that emotions are energy in motion. Yes. And they always have something for you to learn. There's something for every emotion. There is something it wants you to know. Right. And when you're not feeling good are we have more pain receptors in our body, unfortunately. [00:24:55] We have more pain receptors in our body than we do pleasure receptors. Like, and so when pain is activated, it just has a firmer grip. There's something that Martha Beck talks about that I love. It's called the, I think she calls it the Viper in the box of puppies. So if you were to imagine like, and enough said, right. [00:25:10] Done. You get it. But you hand, if I handed you a box full of like 15 adorable, gorgeous little puppies, I mean, it's, they're the most abundant, silly, loving, fuzzy source of love, safety, pleasure. I could really go for that right now. I mean, would it, that should be a, I'm hoping there's one hiding around somewhere. [00:25:28] We have a surprise for you, but if I were to then put a Viper in or a cobra in your box of puppies. All you're gonna see is the threat. Exactly. All you're gonna see is the threat. And I think in life, it's like we pop mo most of us more often than not, are probably living in lives with a lot of puppies. [00:25:48] But the viper, the threat is what consumes Oh yeah. So much energy and attention and shifting your focus from one to the other is easier said than done. And I wanna talk to you specifically about how you have found meaning or, and I, when I say success, I don't mean it in like a bullet point sense, but right. [00:26:12] Where you have found access to, you know, the viper, you know, or the cobra, you know, the box of puppies. Right. How you access that. I can certainly share how I have, but my emotions, I. I've learned in time. I don't always know exactly what they're telling me in the beginning, but I trust them enough to know that it's something. [00:26:36] And so the first place I try to access, if I'm not dissociating or avoiding, is to sit with it. Yeah. So usually it's like, I'm I'll just dissociate in my fantasy book or rewatching parks and recreation for the MPH teeth bajillion time. You know, it's just always a Sure bet. Yeah. It's just, it's hard for, life can only be so hard with Leslie Nope and little Sebastian, you know? [00:26:57] So anyway. But I wanna know where you find yourself in that shift. Yeah. Yeah. So you've got my head's like turning, I'm also still picturing puppies to be honest. That's okay. So I actually, I feel like I wanna give an example of something that I experienced last year, so two years ago. [00:27:11] It's crazy to think two years ago I went on this crazy journey to England. I went to London to take my daughter, who was not quite two years old yet to have a surgery over there for her ultra rare condition that was not available in the States. And I had talked to everybody in the States, of course, that had any knowledge about it and all they could tell me was, we don't really know anything about it. [00:27:35] We don't do it here. Kind of you're on your own, go for it. Or don't, we can't say that we would support you. All that matters is I went for it. And fortunately it did end up being the right decision, but I also knew that it could not be the right decision. And what I found on that experience was that I was originally desperate for picking the right way in life to move forward, that I could not make a decision. [00:28:06] I could not possibly move forward unless I was a hundred percent sure. But guess what? Life isn't real big on giving you a guarantee. Yeah. Guarantees with anything. And I think where I, that's where I started to learn that I don't have to have the answers to move forward. I can be looking at that box and I can see, oh my gosh, this could go terribly wrong. [00:28:34] But I think living with a hopeful mindset is something that allows me to keep my eye on that viper and then still interact with the puppies over here. My eye is still trained on it, but what I found is a peace in making my decision. And it was a, that feeling, that gut feeling. You know, it, I, it doesn't matter what you've gone through in life. [00:28:58] I can't believe that there's anybody out there who hasn't just had that. I call it just that knowing in your gut, it's a physical experience and that is something. That has helped me move forward in life. Because here's the thing, guys, nobody can ever stay truly still. And that's where a lot of our pain and discomfort comes from, is fighting moving forward without certainty. [00:29:23] Oh, let's pause right there. Oh my gosh. So there's something that Dr. Becky Kennedy who she has the good, she wrote the book Good Inside, and she's got her own beautiful podcast and work and content. She does. She really she focuses on kids, but she's really working on parents relationship with their inner child and by extension their parenting. [00:29:43] But she talks about something called, I've called it the Gap, but she calls it the learning space. So with kids, most of their frustration, tension and meltdowns happen between meeting a moment or. A moment arising and knowing how to meet the moment. And that learning space is usually the gap in knowing or understanding of this is what's arisen and I don't know how to meet this moment. [00:30:04] Right? And then if their context or their ability to meet it, if the moment exceeds their ability that's usually when there's a lot of pain or big feelings. Right. And I think with adults, that's usually where I see self-doubt, rumination anxiety, self-destructive tendencies. [00:30:23] Come in and you're right. You're, I love that you said we're never really still, I mean, one that's just true based on science and physics. We're never still that's actually one of the, like, there's like two necessary components, maybe three to being a living, being or a living entity. [00:30:36] I think, what is it? Movement, cell division, reproduction, and, I don't know, something else. Hey, anyone here pop off in the comments if you're a science boss, please gold star for you. Please. But but yeah, we're never truly still. And so even when you feel stagnant and stuck and even hearing you say that I'm actually processing in real time, one of the things that I have done that I, I discovered by accident, but probably because my body knew better than my mind did. [00:31:04] I would, it often does. I would take my feelings on walks. I would, I talked about that movement is essential if you are literally feeling stuck. I tell, that's what I tell everybody. Anytime they're spiraling. Which it's understandable. Go for a walk. Even if it is five minutes, walk up and down your stairs. [00:31:22] Or at the least one of my favorite things thank you Instagram reels for sucking up so much of my life at times in the hospital, but sometimes, but it's, sometimes it's, it is the perfect escape. It's okay to let the pressure off of ourselves. But there was this one that I saw it was this therapist who was like in her seventies and she was in Ireland and she's walking around in like this, you know, the quintessential Ireland landscape. [00:31:47] And she said, I tell all of my clients when you have a problem or a worry or something that's making you feel like you need to hurry, walk outside where you can see the sky and look up. Because the moment you remove a ceiling from your view, from your your line of sight, your mind opens with it. [00:32:08] And possibilities grow. And I have experienced that so often. And you think about it where you, when you're in a confined space. It only adds to those feelings of I'm stuck or I'm out of options, or I can't deal with this. But when you go outside and the world is just showing you how big it is and how small you are, there's actually a ton of comfort in that. [00:32:35] There's, I've also read and heard that there's something about the way that our eyes sort of gently move and follow and track side to side. Yeah. The movement around us that activates a similar calming sensation that our body experiences in REM sleep. Because if you're tracking a bird or tracking a squirrel, or just simply seeing like the trees and movement, track your kids. [00:32:55] Right. That'll keep you, your eyes all over the place. Girl. But like, 'cause right now we're facing a computer screen and we're in, we're under lights. Like, it's a very I mean, it's a lovely container, but it's a sterile container by comparison of being outside. And I Right. I do think that sometimes, like, like Lifeing. [00:33:11] It can be hard, and I never wanna oversimplify holding the challenges and moving through the challenges. Right. And yet I think sometimes when something feels overly, when something feels complex and impossible, it's almo. I, my instinct is to abandon the basics. And that is always the place to start. [00:33:32] That's always the place to start, is to go back to the basics. [00:33:35] Knowing what you know now what. Do you think the version of you, I wrote down three years ago, but I wanna go back to two years ago bef, like as you were navigating all the travel plans and the decision to go to the UK for your daughter's surgery, what do you think that version of Ashlyn needed to hear or needed to know? [00:33:55] And then the follow up question to that, after you answers, do you think she would've believed you? [00:33:59] It's really funny that you're asking this question because I actually had a conversation yesterday with a neighbor's daughter who is a film student, and this question has actually been going through my mind a lot lately about, I wonder where my life would be if I'd known this in my early thirties, if I'd known, or if I had known this in my twenties. [00:34:23] And I kept kind of going backwards like, I didn't know this then. Oh maybe if I'd known this. And I kept just, like I said, looking back and then what I realized is. It's so important that I didn't know those things because I had to experience them with the challenges. I had to climb the mountains for the first time to really understand the importance of gaining those skills for myself. So I actually think that Ashlyn, a couple years ago, I may have wanted to hear, I, what I wanted to hear was, you're making the right decision. I wanted to be validated by doctors, by people who I typically refer to as the ones who have the alphabet after their name. [00:35:06] Can somebody please just tell me, check, you know, you're making the right choice. Or this is what I would do if it were my child. And I wanted it so desperately that I, it did almost prevent me from going. But I am blessed that because of other experiences before that, right where pain had started to evolve into a guide for my life, a way of understanding what is most important to me. [00:35:37] It clarifies a lot. Exactly. Because often, you know, pain and fear are often about things we can't control, right? And what it showed me was that I don't need guaranteed outcomes to be able to sleep at night. I know that if I don't give it everything, including the kitchen sink, I won't be able to sleep at night. [00:36:03] I won't be able to look at Emery when she's an adult and tell her. We tried absolutely everything we could to give you the best quality of life, and that's what I needed to be able to give her. In order for me to feel good about the mom I am. And that's what was most important to me at that time. [00:36:23] So it sounds like maybe you trust in your ability to meet the moment enough that you don't think you would've gone back and told yourself anything? No, I think, and that's something that, like I said, I'd been thinking about a lot, like how many times if I'd only known this, if I if I'd only held my boundaries or if, or you know, these standards or, you know, all the things I could have done differently. [00:36:48] But as I said at the beginning of this, I feel like I have lived a thousand lives and become. A thousand new versions of myself, but you don't become your next self without going through something that carves away at you to reveal it. We don't grow through the easy no we stay stagnant. And besides small talk, my biggest fear in life is staying stagnant. [00:37:20] God, can we just let go of small talk? Oh my gosh. We all have a weather app and we all know the traffic patterns at this point. Like, do you know what's so funny about the weather app? I'm gonna use it every day. I treat my husband like the weather app, and we have an Alexa, like in, literally, like, I'll ask him what the temperature is and he'll be like. [00:37:41] Alexa. I just, oh my goodness. It's like those basic the basic like things of moving through life. I don't know why. It's like I've, I have this like faux that's of publicist. I'm like, I don't know what I'm, so what's the weather? I can't look out the window. I can't ask my own Alexa. [00:37:56] I always think, I think it's, I think it's more like, I think it's fair to acknowledge those as high. There's higher priorities that take up front of mind space. That's right. That's right. Things' so focused on the big things. Right? Yes. It's okay. We're not meant to like, you know, and I think that's another, that's one point I feel really compelled to bring up in this conversation based on all these things we've talked about, you know? [00:38:20] Yes. thank you for the chance to share what Parent Empowerment Network does, and the Empowered By Hope podcast is about addressing the real hard, the messy like, because as far as we're concerned, like once you get the news, your child is not okay. You're living in the messy middle from there on out. [00:38:36] And it can make you, or it can break you. And we're there to tell everybody, we promise this will make you. Even with worst case scenario, and that's a bold statement, but, you know, but it's one you've lived and I exactly. And I've seen countless others live, right? But I think it's so important that everybody, you know, I guess my dream would be if everybody could just realize we are not meant to carry pain and hardship and struggle by ourselves. [00:39:07] That's really what Parent Empowerment Network does. That's really what our podcast does, is it directly says to everybody who gets a chance to interact with us or who we have the honor to meet with. It just says, Hey, you are not expected to hold this alone. You know, put some of that on our plate. [00:39:24] Let's hold it together because it'll be better for everybody. It's not just you is like, again, that's what frees you from a victim mentality. You are not the only one who's ever experienced this. Right. You are not the only one who has suffered this way. And in by no means it's not to minimize. [00:39:40] Right. Exactly. It's not belittling it, it's not, it's definitely not dismissing it. But it's meant to serve as a lighthouse. Right. Our stories are unique. Yes, of course. And so that's, and I think that's what is endlessly, I will never be bored having an in-depth. Not small talk with the love of God, but like, I will never I will be endlessly fascinated by other people. [00:40:01] Because the stories are unique. Yeah. But there is a common thread that we can all see ourselves in or relate to. That, it's so enriching. Yeah. It's almost like, maybe because it's spring and, but I'm thinking it's like the pain is like the compost. Yeah. Something has to die in rotten decay in order to nurture something new. To grow. Yep. Exactly. And I, and that pain serves as fur. It's fertilizing the new, the next round of growth. Right. Yeah. It's not making anything vanish or destroying it, it's just, but it has to break down to build back up. I think that's why mosaics are my favorite type of art. [00:40:39] Yeah. I have such a strong connection to any piece that I see that's made up of a mosaic. And I remember that coming true for me when my dad had his massive stroke and. You know, he was completely debilitated, couldn't speak for himself, couldn't move his own body. He lived like that almost two years. But I remember getting really close to a couple key therapists in his life. [00:41:04] And I remember just after he passed, I got them both a small gift. It was these little mosaic art pieces for them. And I said, when I saw those, I knew that this was the right thing because you didn't see my dad as a destroyed person. You saw him as for the broken pieces. He was that to be put back, to be put together into something that was new and beautiful on its own. [00:41:33] And that's what I feel like pain has the ability to do for all of us. It's okay. And I to acknowledge that you are broken. But it's also just as important to acknowledge that you can be remade into something. You, the old you is gone. You know, when we go through something awful hard, unimaginable it's really easy to think that I will feel this way forever. There is a finality that we attach to painful experiences and it takes often somebody from the outside to gently help us realize that's not reality. I often, when I'm in that transition and I'm not aware or I'm just not ready to admit there are either, there's usually it's I there's usually things I wanna carry along with me. [00:42:28] Yep. It's like. Like an old dingy snugly blanket or like a stuffed animal that like has like holes worn in and like an eyes popped off. It's just but I when I've gone through those transitions, it's saying goodbye to maybe friendships that aren't serving me. [00:42:42] Yep. Or titles, roles levels of output expectations, stories, ways of being and the way, and to go back to pain as a professor, which is going to be the title. That it's only when I try to take the old way of being or the old relationship that is no longer serving into my new now reality. [00:43:04] When it feels anything other than good. Yeah. That's information exactly that it's showing me something and. That curiosity over constriction can also for me look like curiosity over criticism. And because that criticism is usually either dialed inward, what's wrong with me? Right. Or what's wrong with them? [00:43:25] Versus , what is happening Exactly. What's going on? What is this showing me? And I would say probably saying goodbye to relationships or friendships has probably been the hardest. Yeah. The hard, because there is this idea that I'm like if I like it, and it's like in a possessive way. [00:43:42] It's, if I like you forever. And I, and of course that is true. I mean, it, there's nobody who's been in my life that's added value that I don't appreciate. Right. But but I think that the shedding. Yeah. It's like I, I want the next thing, but I also don't wanna let the old thing go. [00:43:56] Right. And so it's, I think I've spent a lot of time and energy trying to like, pull that thing with me. Whatever it is and whatever that stage. But I think that there's when you can fully embrace, 'cause what I'm hearing from you is when you can fully embrace I am different now. [00:44:11] Yep. This is different. This mosaic. I'm not, I may not be able to carry water like I was as a vase. Right. But I'm gonna look really great as this. Yeah. And the other thing I wanna shift to before, before I get to your, don't cut your own bangs question. What I wanna ask you, you've mentioned art a couple of different times. [00:44:28] And this is to, to reference Dr. Martha Beck again. She has done a lot of incredible work in the last couple years where a way to. Step out of anxiety is not to try to access calm. 'cause we talked about going for a walk, right? So, because as much as I love these big conversations, it can be sometimes like, what is something tangible I can actually hold onto? [00:44:53] So walking with something we talked about community and connection with something else we talked about, but Art, I wanna talk about that for a moment because that is what my book was for me. Yeah. It was I created something that only that felt like it was to serve me. The process of interacting with that idea was so delightful and so delicious and so fun that I was like, I feel like I'm just the luckiest person that like this is, oh wow, I get to play with this thing. [00:45:21] Yeah. And it wants to play with me. And I don't feel that all the time. Like sometimes it's origami or doodling or coloring with my daughter. But to go back to Dr. Martha Beck's work that the opposite of anxiety is not calm, it's creativity. Oh, I love that. And you have by default really spoken through, like just healing through creating. [00:45:43] Oh, absolutely. And also there's something about, 'cause calm, there's something about calm that like, we must be still, and granted I love meditation, but like, I must be still, I must be calm. But when you are holding something that is buzzing and shaking or heavy or hot, like just some emotions are hot, like you, it's like you wanna move it through your hands or your words or your body and make something, right. [00:46:06] And you made me, she made me this bracelet before we started this episode. So like, it feels like you have a relationship with creativity too. A hundred percent. Creativity is a lifeline. And I feel like, and the most chaotic moments of my life have been the least I'm my least creative and I think it's a really. [00:46:29] Valuable, tangible thing for anybody to take from this conversation is if you are feeling out of control, lean into something as simple as I'm obsessed with those adult, you know, like the coloring books. Yes. You know, for adults to have like tons of different like lines all over the place that you have to be like really specific to keep the marker in there. [00:46:51] It can't, I do get a little bugged when it like bleeds over to the next section, but, , it's okay. I know I'm working through my, , my stressors at that moment. But yes, giving yourself a creative outlet, it's like taking a big drink of water after you've been exercising and you are so parched. [00:47:07] And I also agree that , calm sounds great in theory, but for me I feel like the more important, like the word that's become more important or I'm better able to. Absorb is the idea of am I grounded? Are my feet touching the ground? I can still have a lot going on, but when I'm like rising higher, you know, off the ground, 'cause like, I'm like a bird at this point, just flapping my arms so fast, right. [00:47:35] That I'm actually taking flight. I'm not in my best head space, but when I can just take a moment to literally just ground myself, make sure that my feet are, whether it's in the grass or sit down like this. And a conversation with a friend, somebody who really knows you is a great moment for that. [00:47:53] It's a great way to remind you who you are is somebody else. Sometimes I talk all the time about the value of when you can connect with somebody who feels with you, not just for you. Oh my gosh. It makes the world so much lighter and goodness. I mean, huh. That's probably if I could have answered the question I asked you a little bit ago, what's something that you could have if I could have told my former therapist self, like when I very when I first started, you're there to hold space for people to feel and feel with them. [00:48:23] Right. Exactly. You're not there. It's sacred. Yeah. It's there's nothing, one, it's like, there's nothing I can tell someone who's deeply in pain that they're actually gonna No. , That's, the words are just like, right. It's just noise. Yeah. And not to take anything. I'm sure I have clients who have been impacted by words. [00:48:40] But having a safe space to feel your feelings free of judgment. Is one of the reasons why I love journaling so much, but also doing that in communion Yeah. With another human right who expects nothing of you. I love Elizabeth Gilbert has language I love, like there's no precious outcome. [00:48:57] Like I can, that I can sit and have space with you or I can make plans with you or be, and there's no precious outcome. You don't have to perform for me. Right. You don't have to be anything for me. Like we can just be that is what a gift. Yes, that is. I just want to, this conversation has inspired way too many thoughts, but in the best way. [00:49:15] But something that hit me and then I think we could absolutely move on to Yeah. This the cut your bangs question. But what I've realized even in our conversation is that logic is not loud . our emotions are loud and they get louder and louder. The more we. Push them back the more we ignore them. [00:49:36] Think of your kids until they, when they need your attention. Because they deserve your attention. They do. The best thing we can do is acknowledge those emotions and just, even if it's as simple as, it's totally understandable. I feel this way right now. That is such a freeing sentence. Of course, I feel this way right now. [00:49:58] That was some serious shit that I just went through. Yeah . of course, I feel, and it doesn't have to make sense when those feelings hit the timing a lot of times feelings for me, I've found won't hit until I'm in a safe space much further down the road. Yes. And it's like being T-boned, like yes, totally out of the blue. [00:50:19] But that's also what happens to kids when they have tantrums. Ah, yeah. They'll hold. And then when they're finally either home at the end of the day or something, when the container is so full and they're finally in a place where they feel safe, they'll erupt over an orange peel not being peeled correctly. [00:50:32] Or , or a banana not being peeled correctly. Oh gosh. And it's not that, don't even start me on string cheese. God. Oh God. Parenting is fun. The best, but No, but you're right. Sometimes, I think that's probably why I cry almost with like every movie and TV show I watch. [00:50:47] Yeah. Because the emotions are just always right there and I just need a place to let it trickle out. Right. And that's okay. And I think, but just not judging ourselves for feelings. And then I think once we give that space or the feelings, the sooner we can do that, the sooner that logic, you know, like you, you mentioned multiple times, I know this, then you give logic. [00:51:13] The space that it needs to speak to you in a calm and quiet manner that you can actually trust. And that's where I think that those gut feelings truly come from. Those inner knowings are, when you've allowed space for the emotions first, given them their due. So then the logic can start to talk to you because it's never going to yell for your attention. [00:51:35] No. And I think we want it to, but that's not the way it works. And that's okay. A lot of times things make sense in hindsight, oh gosh, hindsight's 2020. Always. South Park has a great episode. If people if you have just like a dark sense of humor and you wanna laugh at, there's a character called Captain Hindsight and it's really funny. [00:51:54] . So yeah, a lot of times things don't make sense until we're. A little bit more removed from them. Yep. And some what I have found to be helpful, I've noticed you using your hands. Yeah. And I find when I am, when my mind is really active and I need it to stop or slow down or I just i'll sometimes even throw my hands up. Yeah. And I'll say, and even saying. I'm feeling something and just to myself in my kitchen. 'cause I'm almost always , because I work from home, I'm either like in my office or in my kitchen, like I'm feeling something. As soon as you did that, it's gonna show on video. [00:52:25] I like saw from the corner of my eye myself, naturally going, whew. Yeah. Just sound like inhale. Exhale. Yes. It's like something is being felt. Something's happening. I don't know what it is, but something's happening. And I think, in a lot of ways too, like that's how we have these internal smoke signals. [00:52:42] Yeah. And it's the same way, like your smoke detector in your house doesn't know the difference between burnt toast and something on fire, right? But it will beep when it senses. Yeah. When it senses something. And so my body is like sensing something. Is this a threat? [00:52:56] Are we safe? Yes, we're safe. Oh, we're likely. We just needed water. We're just dehydrated. Uhhuh. Or we just, yeah. So any number of things. But that was so good. Thank you. And yes, I would love, love, love to know your don't cut your own bang moment. And for anybody who is new to the podcast, 'cause I think there are some new people here. [00:53:15] Thank you for being here. Don't cut Your own bang moment is a moment where you went all in on something like cutting your own bangs, you grabbed some scissors, you watched a YouTube video, you're like, I got this. And you go, and then, oh no, this wasn't what I thought it would be. But the value in a don't Cut Your own Bang moment is not only that we can share in the silliness of humanity and mistakes, but also like maybe we learn something from it. [00:53:42] So, Ashlyn? Yes. I would love to hear your Don't cut your own bang moment. Oh my goodness. I think that there's probably a plethora of them. Oh, of course. And, let's see here. I'm even, I tried to have one prepared, and then I got excited about the rest of our conversation. Oh my gosh. Don't worry. So, okay I'll share one. [00:53:58] So what's a good, don't a good, oh. I invited my husband to record a podcast with me because I thought it would just be, , fun to bring him back on. And what I realized was I didn't prepare him for it at all. I just set up lights and set up a camera and asked him to sit. And he was so, visibly like he was trying, he was sitting, he was trying. [00:54:23] But I could just tell, again, something's happening. And I could tell he was a little uncomfortable and a little stiff. And I kept, because our eyes look out. My first assumption is, what's wrong out there? And I was like, what are you okay? What's wrong? And he he was , I don't really know what I'm supposed to be doing. [00:54:41] And then I was like. Oh, no, it was snip the bangs. I didn't provide any context. I didn't give him any preparation for what we'd be talking about, why we'd be talking like he had no context. And the whole setup is different, uhhuh. And it was such a humbling, settling moment of context. [00:55:04] It's I'm writing something right now about this idea of play. I'm a freedom loving, freedom seeking play hungry, greedy person right now. I want more play. I could never get enough. But what makes play feel fun and safe is to understand the context. Yeah. , There's rules in a game. [00:55:20] Otherwise, what is it? And I, my first instinct is to buck. Rules. I don't like ingredient lists. I don't like recipes. I just wanna feel my way through it. But, if you wanna make a beautiful croissant, you can't just feel your way through that. There's a very exacting way to do it. And so, it, it was such a one, I'm endlessly grateful for him and his patients with me. [00:55:40] I'm grateful that , our dynamics not new, so he probably knew what was going on, but just did yeah he's pretty sweet that way. But I, it was such a refresher that , if I wanna create a space and container to play safely with people Yeah. I need to give them the context. Absolutely. And it doesn't matter how long I've known someone, how well I know someone. [00:55:59] I laughed at myself because I, the part of the reason why it feels funny to me, but in like a humbling way. I thought the problem was him for like the first 15 minutes. I was like, what dude? Relax. I was like, what? Is he doing it right? [00:56:12] Yeah. like come on. And I was like. Oh no. Context. Zero. Oh my goodness. So that was a great one. Thank you. Okay, I'm gonna do mine in like short seconds because this one just hap this that inspired me perfectly. So my 8-year-old son and I are both going to the same therapist right now. [00:56:30] I'm a believer everybody should have at least an annual checkup with a therapist, but that's a great endorsement. Everyone should have an you annual checkup. You welcome, reach out to Danielle, she's fantastic. If you live in Indiana, by all means. If not, we'll help you find someone. Yes. And also order the book. [00:56:44] Yes, order the book. Get resting the wall risk. Get treasured. Yes. But go on please. So anyway one, one of the things that my I, the reason I love the person we're working with is because she's the first therapist I've worked with when it comes to, with my kids, she actually tells me what I can work on rather than just , you're doing the best you can and like you just love 'em. [00:57:03] And like, yes, I know, but that is not helping me. And so one of the things that got pointed out to me. Was so Cole , has very low frustration tolerance, like more so than is necessarily healthy for an 8-year-old. And of course with all the trauma with our his sister, our journey, it's understandable. [00:57:22] So we're working on that. What she kindly pointed out to me was, okay, we could work on his, but do you also realize that your tolerance for acceptable emotions is about this big? Oh, she's , therapist, be therapist Uhhuh. She's , but there's like a whole lot more emo like, she's , it's like a whole rainbow. [00:57:42] We need a whole arc for acceptable emotions. She's so you need to stop making it your responsibility to control which emotions he experiences. And it's up to you to provide the solid ground for him no matter which emotion comes up for him. And I will say that has changed my parenting in the last week. [00:58:04] More than maybe anything has like faster than anything. Because all of a sudden I'm like, of course it's acceptable that his sister just made him extremely mad. Of course it's understandable that he's jealous or sad or excited or whatever the feeling is, but it also doesn't define him as right or wrong, what emotions he's experiencing in that moment. [00:58:28] And the big thing was the realization that every emotion he experiences is not a direct reflection of who I am as a parent. No. Because that was what I needed to let go of that any emotion that is considered negative that my child has doesn't mean. That I'm doing a bad job as a parent. Oh my God. [00:58:49] That is one. What a beautiful. Don't cut. Thank you. With Dr. Sarah. Yes. Thank you, Dr. Sarah. You'd be therapizing all up in that session. That was so good. And it's the, that to me is a great example that hard truths can always be delivered with kindness. Yeah. But I think the big important thing there is you had the right context. [00:59:12] Exactly. You went to her for that information. Right. It wasn't like someone on the street. But the thing that we can't give someone what we don't have. Exactly. And I actually think that what you just said, if there was ever an endorsement for what. Self-care actually is not the commoditized, right. [00:59:29] Faux sense of, I'm gonna create a problem and I'm going to prescribe collagen. Did you know that the reason why, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah is these things that you need to buy and, oh, my program for blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm gonna, I have all that stuff. I'm not I'm wanna, I wanna keep it in perspective. [00:59:45] I am drinking the same Kool-Aid 'cause I'm getting sent the same algorithm ads that we're all getting sent. Like I'm doing colostrum now. I don't even know. Like, I just, because I was like, my gut might grow up I own, but anyway but I think self-care and the best possible context is when you nurture. [01:00:03] And heal yourself. It becomes the medicine. Yes. Yes. And the offering for the other people in your life that you love most. It's like as you increase your own palette of what you're able to allow yourself to experience, you're then also able to see it in your son and give it to him. That is so beautiful and it's hard. [01:00:26] Sometimes, but it's some God that a well timed, articulated loving truth like that can change your life. Yeah. That is amazing. Thank you. I don't know, we can't top that. That was good. We're good. That was real good. Ashlyn Thompson, thank you so much for coming back and we're going to have you back. [01:00:43] You have to come back. Yes. And you're coming over to Empowered by Hope very soon. I would love that so much. And Yes. And so all of the ways, if you or anyone you know in your life has been impacted by a little one with complex me complex medical issues and you want some support, you want some information, you want some resources. [01:01:01] The link in the show notes will have every way that you can connect with Ashlyn, her business partner, and what was formally Charlotte's Hope Foundation, what is now the Parent Empowerment Network. Pick up all the books, all the resources, everything I talked about too for my stuff is also in there. [01:01:16] But , it's all linked for you there. So I hope that you get what you need and. Thanks so much, . Oh my gosh. [01:01:21] If you've ever wanted to pick up journaling,

Welcome to The Force Unscripted Podcast, where Star Wars fans share unfiltered discussions, fresh insights, and genuine camaraderie in exploring the galaxy far, far away. Tune in weekly for authentic conversations that celebrate the timeless appeal of Star Wars. May the Force be with you on this adventure!------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Come visit our website and leave us a review, voice note or topics you may want discussed on the show!The Force Unscripted Website------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Be sure to follow us any where you want to get your podcast fix, as well as on Twitter (formerly known as X) where we post updates about the podcast and on Twitch, where we do our live recordings for the podcast!LinkTreeTwitter (Formerly Known As X)Twitch------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------In this episode of "Versus", catch the battle of Leia Organa Solo versus Revan between NKDA and Exotic.

Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest Lance Woods Correy B This Week We Discuss Interview Ye vs Charleston White Be A Movie Star vs Music Star Live On A Cruise Ship vs Remote Tropical Island S/o To Our Sponsors INDACLOUD Indacloud.co Use Code: ALLDEF Cash App Download Cash App Use Code:SQUADD

“I don't care what I have to do, they are not going to ignore me. So I would get up, I would walk around the room, I would stand on a chair in the middle of the room, I would shout, I would run, I would scream, I would kick things. If I was mad at the Devil, I would kick something. And if I was happy for Jesus, I would run around, woo hoo hoo! And I mean, people would just come out and be like, ‘Wow, I've never really seen anybody speak like you.' And I'm just like, listen, if you're not listening, I'm not speaking. So, I think Paul said something like, I'll be a fool for Christ. His context was all of the troubles and trials and tribulations he'd gone through in life. But the context of the statement was, in order to reach people with this message, I'll do whatever I have to do.” – Dennis Meador My guest on this episode is the founder and CEO of The Legal Podcast Network, a turnkey podcasting, marketing, and content solution for the legal industry. With nearly thirty years in marketing, over twenty of those focused on white-collar industries, especially the legal sector, he brings extensive expertise in branding, podcasting, and beyond. His name is Dennis Meador, and in this two-part conversation, he'll be sharing his take on branded podcasts and how they improve client engagement, and where he thinks podcasting for specific industries will head in the future. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you're welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you'll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you're getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I'd love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast's main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - Early Memories of Sound and CommunicationWe start things off with Dennis's early memories of sound, including a gospel music tape he heard when he was just five years old. “It got to the point,” he recalls, “where, within a short amount of time, I had every song memorized off of that tape, both sides, every song front to back.” He shares his experiences with public speaking and what he's learned about engagement and connecting with an audience. “I've spoken to two, three thousand a few times, something like that,” he explains, “and you just feel like you're almost shouting into an abyss. Versus like that 300 to 500, you can almost feel the energy and see whether or not people are plugged in all across the whole room.”(0:12:54) - Success in Sales and PodcastingDennis tells us about how he got into advertising and his insights into the industry. “You're helping these businesses,” he tells us. “If you're not ripping them off and you're really producing the product, and it's a good thing, then you're helping these companies.” We talk about how social media has transformed the marketing landscape and the difference between having a large audience and an engaged audience. “If you have 50,000 downloads or views of a show,” he notes, “but they're all over the world and no one calls you, it's not nearly as valuable as having fifty people locally, ten of them calling you, and six hiring you. Fifty could be infinitely more valuable than fifty thousand.”(0:23:34) - Marketing Strategies Through Video...

Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest Dion Lack Chaz Rodgers Brooke Ashley Denise This Week We Discuss Stranded In Racist Town vs Jungle Chased By A Pack Of Zombies vs A Bear Powers Of Spider Man vs Wealth Of Bruce Wayne S/o To Our Sponsors Prize Picks Download The Prize Picks App & Use Code SQUADD Today! BetterHelp https://betterhelp.com/squadd

Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest Mandal Courtney Haynes Dion Lack This Week We Discuss On A Road Trip W/ Low Battery vs Slow Service Live On A Canal Boat vs RV Card Decline While Sneaker Shopping vs Buying Shots For Friends

Introducing the All Def SquADD Cast show “Versus". It's a podcast with the OG SquADD! Each week, the SquADD will debate topics and vote at the end to see what wins. Versus airs every Monday and you can download and listen wherever podcasts are found. Special Guest Jasmine Ellis Herman Wrice  CP This Week We Discuss Bomb Hard In Stadium vs Get Heckled For Your Entire Set Arby's vs Dairy Queen Incredible Success W/ A Job You Hate vs Struggles W/ Your Passion