Marketing For Learning®

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You've built an amazing learning product - now what? In this episode, Ashley and Hannah break down why marketing isn't just a bolt-on to learning but a fundamental part of making it successful. They dive into how positioning, messaging, and audience research can transform a learning experience from nice to have to unmissable. Expect insights on emotional triggers, behavioural science, multi-channel campaigns, and why generic messaging just won't cut it. Plus, plenty of playful banter, pineapple references, and a reminder that “learning” alone isn't a selling point. SHOW NOTES: The AIDAL Model – A previous episode covering the AIDAL (Attention, Interest, Desire, Action, Loyalty) framework, which was a key part of the discussion on structuring marketing campaigns. Behavioural Science in Marketing for Learning® – Relevant when discussing FOMO, urgency, and how to create demand for learning. Strategic Marketing for People Functions course 

Your favourite duo is back to discuss a contentious topic in L&D: The Technology Trap. Of course, we all know technology is a critical tool in forward thinking L&D teams, but can it solve all of our issues? (Shock horror, Ash and Han don't think so!)  In this episode we discuss:  The importance of understanding the user experience and the need for root cause analysis to understand engagement challenges.  Why audience centricity is key for future-proofing your L&D function.  The importance of aligning your strategy, to the business goals, then finding the right tech to enable your strategy.  So whether you're a tech lover, or hater, or somewhere in between... we're sure this ep will give you loads of food for thought!   

In this fantastic ep, Ash and Georgie Cooke dive into the crucial link between employee experience and L&D, covering everything from culture and management to learning opportunities. They explore why audience insights matter, how to personalise learning, and the necessity of aligning L&D with business goals. The conversation also tackles blended learning, accessibility, and the challenges of measuring impact, urging L&D to rethink success beyond just engagement metrics. Links:  Georgie Cooke's LinkedIn Lima Delta's website  Ash's LinkedIn Our Strategic Marketing Course   

In the second episode of our series "From Training to Transformation: Redefining L&D's Role" Ash and Han delve into the critical role of stakeholders in transforming L&D from a cost centre to a strategic business partner. This ep is jam-packed with practical tips and insights including: Why it is critically important for L&D to align to the business goals. How you can engage with senior leaders and find out the crucial insights needed for success.  The power of shifting from a training-needs mindset, to a performance-needs approach. Whether you're a seasoned L&D pro or just starting your career, this episode will challenge you to think differently about how L&D can truly serve as a driver of business success. Happy listening!    LINKS: Strategic Marketing for L&D Programme Ash's LinkedIn  Han's LinkedIn 

New Series! From Training To Transformation: Redefining L&D's Role.  We're so excited to announce our new multi-episode podcast series on L&D transformation. Our first episode kicks off with Derek Mitchell, Analytics Partner at Novo Nordisk.  In this episode Derek discusses the critical role of data in L&D. He emphasises using data to proactively identify training needs, personalise communications, and measure the impact of learning initiatives. He also highlights the importance of moving beyond traditional metrics like course completions to focus on performance, skills growth, and behaviour change.  It's a fantastic episode, and definitely sets the scene for this crucial series!  Links:  Derek's LinkedIn Ashley's LinkedIn  Strategic Marketing for L&D Course     

Grab your tissues... because this is the final time you'll hear from Ash & Han in 2024!

What are the big L&D trends of 2025? Well we don't know... but Han asked Chat GPT, and unsurprisingly she didn't like it's answer. So in this episode Han discusses the 'trends' we see year after year, and what she thinks should be the trend of 2025.   

For all you lifelong, lucky listeners we're giving you 10% off our new 'Strategic Marketing for L&D Leaders' course, which kicks off on March 5th, 2025. It's our Masterclass, but it's getting a facelift and a much bigger emphasis on strategic marketing. Lots more information on our website if you want it.  If you want a 10% off voucher, just message Ash on LinkedIn and tell her you want to join the #PineappleArmy. We'll do the rest!  P.S. Sorry for the weird promo - normal service resumes next week!  

Does everybody just know the value of L&D? That's what most learning professionals seem to think. And shock... Han disagrees.  It's time L&D stopped assuming everybody knows our value... now is the time to prove it. In this episode, Han is going to cover: The danger of assumptions. Why data is your best friend. Why it's time to own our craft and align with the business goals. If you're ready to step up, take ownership, and do something different. This is the ep for you.   Happy listening friendos

When we mutter the phrase "internal comms" to many of our clients, we see them shudder. "Do we have to get them involved? They're always a blocker to our plans!" We've heard it all before... So in this ep, Ash and Han address why internal comms *must* be involved in your marketing for learning initiatives, and how to make the whole thing smoother.  Happy listening guys!    LINKS: Internal comms, friend or foe?

Welcome to the 2nd edition of our Sunday Surgery - our brand new feature on the Marketing for Learning pod. These episodes are designed to help real L&Ders tackle their real challenges in a free consultancy session with Ash and Han.  In this session Vesta Charleshouse, Learning Coordinator at AMICULUM (and marketing for learning masterclass alumni!) joins Han to discuss getting more from what she has with her marketing approaches. From casting the net wider with influencers, to using MailChimp for email marketing, this episode is a juicy one. Oh also, if you want to come on the Surgery and get a free consultancy session with Han or Ash, just email us at hello@maas-marketing.co.uk. It's completely free, it'll just cost you the time a recording takes!  NOTES:  Vesta's LinkedIn Han's LinkedIn  Come on our surgery: hello@maas-marketing.co.uk 

Inspired by a chat with Laura Overton at World of Learning, Han is here this week to talk to you about making 'movements' in L&D, alongside your marketing efforts. And it's all about relinquishing control and enabling your people to do it themselves!   LINKS: Han's LinkedIn The Influencer Marketing Episode

Hot off the back of World of Learning, Han is here to set the record straight: Marketing for Learning is for ALL businesses, no matter your size! You have an L&D team? Fab. Now think about marketing.  Simples.    Links: Han's LinkedIn Our personas ebook

James Blunt is a musician who knows how to get attention. In this episode Ash examines why his latest PR stunt is a masterclass in marketing and virality.  SHOW NOTES James' video on X  Marketing Masterclass info

Welcome to the first edition of our Sunday Surgery - our brand new feature on the Marketing for Learning pod. These episodes are designed to help real L&Ders tackle their real challenges in a free consultancy session with Ash and Han.  In this first session Louise Donnelly, Senior Learning Manager and Stephen Clark, Learning Technologies Manager bring a challenge our gals have seen time and time again: "We're building a thing, what do we call it?"  So, what's in a name? Let's explore, shall we...  Oh also, if you want to come on the Surgery and get a free consultancy session with Han and Ash, just email us at hello@maas-marketing.co.uk. It's completely free, it'll just cost you a recording so others can benefit from our conversation!  NOTES:  Louise's LinkedIn  Stephen's LinkedIn  Come on our surgery: hello@maas-marketing.co.uk 

WOWZERS. Episode ONE HUNDRED. We can't quite believe we've hit this milestone. So to mark the occasion, Han has handpicked the best bits from all 100 episodes, to share with you today. From campaigns to mindset - this episode covers it all. So grab a glass of fizz! - or a brew if you'd prefer - and share the next 30ish minutes with us as we toast 100 episodes of the Marketing for Learning® podcast.   LINKS:  Han's LinkedIn Ash's LinkedIn  Full episodes: Beyond Bums On Seats: Solving The Engagement Challenge How Would A Marketer Do L&D? Storytelling With Nick Shackleton-Jones L&D's Awareness Problem Creating Demand For Learning UX Design In Learning & Development Why Think Like A Marketer How To Create A Learning Campaign Data In L&D: An Interview With NilesNolen  

Coming at you LIVE from LEARNING LIVE 2024... Ash and Han discuss one topic that has come up numerous times during this event: Market Research. No, it's not a sexy topic. But it's critical for your marketing for learning® success. So in this bitesized episode, we tell you how and why research is so important in L&D.   LINKS: Our latest ebook Han's LinkedIn Ash's LinkedIn 

Why do things go viral? How come humans seem to want to do something just because everyone else is? It's because of the psychological phenomenon called 'the bandwagon effect'. Ash explores with you what the bandwagon effect is, and how we can start to use this cognitive, unconscious bias to our advantage in marketing for learning®.    NOTES & LINKS:  What is the bandwagon effect? Ep 13 - L'Oreal's learning culture with Caroline Fitzpatrick Ep 56 - Leveraging FOMO for impact Ashley's LinkedIn 

In this ep, Han is joined by Sam Goodman, L&D Manager at ITPEnergised. Sam is a teacher, who has transitioned over to L&D – and for that reason he has a super interesting take on engagement at all stages of the learning experience.  This episode covers a range of topics, including: Contextualising learning for your audience The power of humility in learning and marketing  How a marketing mindset will help L&Ders And as Han promised in the ep, here's the link to the Learner Personas guide. Han's LinkedIn  Sam's LinkedIn 

Competitions are a great tactic to boost engagement, right!? Welllllllll... Han disagrees. And in this podcast episode she explains why. Listen in to learn more about: The cobra effect The pitfalls of incentivising learning When you can use competitions or incentives (but Han is still reluctant!)  LINKS: Han's Linkedin The AIDAL episode of the podcast And a lil' shout out to Tom McDowall and his podcast, Instructional Design Tips

Ever struggle to find inspiration for your marketing for learning efforts?

Want to better understand what in the heckiddy heck your people are doing on your learning platforms? Then you need to start monitoring bounce rate. Ashley tells all in this short, exploratory episode!  Ashley's LinkedIn  Google Analytics 

No, Han hasn't had a complete leave of her senses while Ash is away. But she really does think there are some instances where marketing won't help L&D... particularly if: Your learning experience is pants You haven't changed your thinking You aren't thinking long-term! So if you want to know the pitfalls to avoid, this ep is for you. Happy listening!

What if we told you that we have one, really easy trick to make your learning land better with your audience? Well you're in luck. Because that's exactly what Han's bringing to the podcast today. And it's all about terminology. If you want to get them to walk the walk, you've gotta talk their talk.    LINKS: Han's LinkedIn 4 P's Podcast 

The question of the day: Why is engagement still L&D's biggest challenge? Well it's no surprise that Han's got an opinion on this topic and she's here to give her two cents (including the fact she doesn't think marketing for learning® is the sole solution to the engagement challenge). 

Every time Pinocchio lied, his nose got longer. The outputs and impact of his lie was immediate. And although that stopped Pinocchio lying, might bringing the outputs and impact of learning into the immediate term make people learn MORE? Han thinks so, and in this episode, she explains why.   LINKS: Han's LinkedIn Seth Godin's newsletter about the Pinocchio protocol. Choice Hacking

It's story time with Han this week, as she lets us in on a client conversation that really got her cogs turning. In this bite sized ep, Han delves into demand generation, and how it might help all L&Ders (and stakeholders!) think differently about marketing for learning®.   

Has Han lost the plot? Or should L&D really be eating dog food? OK. She doesn't mean it literally, but eating your own dog food means using your product or service in the way a user would use it. And that means that L&D need to start learning – using the platforms and services we want our people to use.  This bitesized episode will help you understand why using your own learning products helps L&D teams: Market their offering accurately and authentically  Improve empathy with their target audience Enhance, tweak and adapt their learning products.  Happy listening! 

Have you heard the news? We won the Awareness Campaign of the Year award at the British Training Awards with our friends at Capgemini University!

It's a question many of us have pondered - could that learning module have just been an email? How much of my learning is actually just information that I could communicate in a different way? In this podcast, Ashley invites two industry experts to talk about the world of learning and whether L&D REALLY could be replaced by marketing and comms.  SHOW NOTES:  Dr Heidi Kirby's LinkedIn Heidi's BLOC podcast Loren Sanders' LinkedIn  Loren's book  Ashley's LinkedIn  

Han and Ash often offer up a lot of criticism for how things are done in L&D. So could they do it better? This episode the ladies examine what they'd do in a senior L&D role, using their marketing brains. Very interesting chat indeed. NilesNolen Learning Triage flowchart Hannah's LinkedIn Ashley's LinkedIn

Han and Ash keep telling you to 'take your learning hat off'... but what on earth does that mean?! In this pod, Han dives right into what it means and how you can up the empathy with your target audience.  Short and sweet. Just like the pod host. Although that would more likely be short and sassy... whatevs.    LINKS: Han's LinkedIn  Learner Persona Ebook

Ah yes, another year, another Learning at Work Week. Cue a flurry of marketing activities.  This week Ash raises an important question: Is LAWW doing more harm than good, or should we be doing marcoms around this? Not quite an Ashley rant, but nearly

We've spoken about the value proposition canvas (VPC) a few times on the pod. But in this ep, Han's shaking things up – and she thinks she's come up with the perfect VPC for L&D. One that's going to help you make real marketing magic.

People Experience roles are on the rise and L&D is in a constant state of shift. In this unique conversation Ash chats to Josh Novelle, VP of People Experience and Insight at HSBC to discuss the role of L&D in modern enterprises, and what we need to do to remain relevant and valuable to the businesses we service. What a crackin' conversation! Josh's LinkedIn Ashley's LinkedIn 

Brand hierarchies (aka, brand architecture) are an essential element of marketing for learning®, and also grossly overlooked by you L&D folk. In this short episode Ash discusses what brand hierarchies are, why they're important and why it's absolutely critical to establish how all your corporate brands interplay with each other BEFORE you start big pieces of marketing work.  Save yourself a headache, start up those brand hierarchy discussions early and really understand what you can actually do from a branding perspective from the outset, instead of trying to figure it amidst a project! 

In this super juicy episode, Ash is joined by Sarah Hatton, Chief Learning Officer at The LPI, to discuss their recently released 2024 Learning Survey. Ash and Sarah discuss what's changing in L&D, the direction of travel of our industry, and what we need to do to stay future focused. Happy listening! LINKS: The LPI Learning Survey 2024 Sarah's LinkedIn Ash's LinkedIn 

Do marketing campaigns work for L&D? Well yeah, of course they do! But not everyone's convinced... In this podcast episode, Han sets the record straight on why campaigns are a great decision for all L&D teams.

We're about to get musical in this episode... or are we? Don't worry, this podcast won't subject you to Han's karaoke singing (even though she thinks she's great at it...) but she will be talking about the importance of HUM, SING, and SHOUT. Using these 3 words, you'll translate your marketing for learning® strategy into a consistent, compelling and easy to use marketing plan. What more could you want? Happy listening!    LINKS: Han's LinkedIn Profile How do create a learning campaign

Want to influence your audience's behaviours? Then you need to use behavioural science. A happy marriage of sociology, psychology, behavioural economics and more, behaviour science is the research-backed approach to impacting changes in behaviour. In this meaty ep, Ash delves into behavioural science, and shows you how to start applying some of its principles to L&D.  A hefty, tip-filled episode. Noice.    SHOW NOTES: Here's everything Ash referenced in this pod... Ashley's LinkedIn  Nudge podcast episode  Oglivy's Behavioural Science Annual 2023 Behavioural Science Principles Encyclopaedia  The Stanley Cup viral response Episode 56 - Loss Aversion & FOMO Milgram Obedience Experiment 

We've all heard the saying “consistency is key”, haven't we? And this old adage is just as important in marketing for learning as it is in every other aspect of life. In fact, in marketing circles, the “rule of seven” is often spoken about – and it's a rule that L&D needs to adopt. In this episode Han helps you apply the rule of 7 to your L&D function #YoureWelcome    Links: Han's LinkedIn Rule of 7 Blog

How the tables have turned... This week, Hannah sits in the interview seat. In a recording from the BLOC podcast, Han is interviewed by Heidi Kirby PhD, discussing all things marketing for learning®. From personas and employee-centricity, to L&D taking more accountability of their budgets – this podcast covers it all.  LINKS: Han's LinkedIn Heidi's LinkedIn The BLOC podcast MAAS' Learner Personas guide.

Learning through failure is one of the most important aspects of a marketing mindset. In this first mini-series episode Ashley talks through one of her earliest failures as a new marketer, and what she learned from that mistake. Hopefully you can learn from it too!   SHOW NOTES: HubSpot Academy MAAS Educational Stuffs Ashley's LinkedIn

"Can you just...?" is a phrase that sends shudders down any marketers spine. No, marketing is not "just" sending an email, making a poster or zhuzhing something up. It's a strategic process that gets butts a'movin! And that's what we want in L&D, right? So, in this corker of an episode, Han is joined by Emma Hunter, Head of Creative Centre of Competence at Capgemini (phew, say that 10 times fast!) to discuss why proactive marketing is so, so important in marketing for learning.    Links: Han's LinkedIn Emma's LinkedIn 

2023... what a year it's been, hey? And with over 10,000 downloads of the pod this year - Han thought it was time for a round up. With clips from our 12 most listened to podcasts of 2023, this is our present to you, you pineapple-loving marketing for learning® fans. So if you want to hear clips about: Our marketing for learning course taster Han's on why marketing IS a human skill Why PEOPLE should be at the heart of everything we do in L&D How to create personas, brand promises and positioning statements What Pavlovs dog has to do with marketing for learning What Mirjam Neelan, Paula Hughes, Nick Shakleton-Jones, Edmund Monk, Serena Gonsalves-Fersch and Egle Vinauskite think of the current state of L&D. Then grab a cuppa and settle in, because this ones for you. (Ha! Who are we kidding, it's December, get a mulled wine & a mince pie!)

A marketer? On our podcast? Wowzers. We were lucky enough to get some airtime with the Marketing Director at Manpower Group to talk about her own marketing challenges, strategy and her perspective on how employee demands are changing. Sharp, to the point and incredibly talented, in this candid conversation Laura shares her own marketing challenges (and how they're still scarily similar to L&D's). It's a good un. Key links: Laura Card's LinkedIn  Ashley's LinkedIn Manpower's website HubSpot's Academy

So, you've finally got some headcount for a marketing person to join your L&D team. HOW EXCITING!! Don't fall into the trap of hiring someone who could eventually do the job. Instead, hire a real marketer if you really want your marketing for learning® to be successful.  *Cue Ashley rant*  Ashley's LinkedIn

Two years. TWO YEARS! Two whole years of the marketing for learning® podcast. So this week Ash & Han team up for a joint episode to discuss anything and everything L&D, from AI, recruitment and embracing marketing for learning (shock!)  So strap in for a great catch up with this pineapple-loving duo, and we apologise in advance for all the cackling... they just had too much fun

In an uncharacteristic turn of events, Han has a bee in her bonnet in this episode. Talking (ranting) about L&D's obsession with completion rates, Han explains why learning professionals should be thinking beyond tick boxes and smile sheets – and look towards real behavioural and performance change.    Enjoy this bitesized snack for your ear'oles.   Han's LinkedIn 

Wtf is Gen AI and how is it going to impact L&D? Ash was lucky to sit down with leading Gen AI expert, Egle Vinauskite, to discuss her lens on L&D and AI. How it can be used, how it might be used in the future, and the challenges that this is going to bring to us as a learning function.  Heck we even talk about the repercussions on IP and creativity. It's a goodun! This is a meaty conversation and we all learnt a lot - GET THAT IN YOUR EAR'OLES! Egle's LinkedIn Ashley's LinkedIn