The Place We Find Ourselves

Dr. Hillary McBride talks about her new book titled, Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing. Topics covered include: our deep human need to belong, the inherent goodness of your heart (despite what you may have been told), how healing should not be defined as “something going away,” and the importance of witnessing your emotions and letting them unfold. Hillary and I are co-hosting the Spiritual Trauma conference on Saturday, June 7, 2025. You can learn more here.

I am joined today by author Jay Stringer to talk about sexual stuckness/difficulties/struggles. Healthy sexuality is deeply tied to the degree to which we have made sense of our story in our family of origin. Sadly, so few of us have ever been asked to connect the dots between our past life story and the sexual difficulties we face in the present. Today, Jay and I try to connect some of those dots. If you want to understand your sexual story in more depth, please sign up for The Sexual Attachment Conference on May 3rd, 2025. We want to help you understand and transform some of the sexual difficulties you may be experiencing either individually or as a couple.

Today's episode is different. Dan Allender takes over the podcast to interview me about my new book titled, Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything. Topics covered include: how to respond when we fail those we love, how the book launch re-enacts core dynamics in my life, how to listen to the story your body is telling you, as well as your sexual story and your collective story.

John Eldredge returns to the podcast to talk about his newest book titled, “Experience Jesus. Really.” Topics covered include: how to live as an ordinary mystic (someone who experiences the sweet presence of God on a regular basis), why you don't need to understand something to experience it and benefit from it, the importance of turning toward Jesus with the parts of our hearts that are not doing well, and how the presence of Jesus heals even the fragmented and traumatized parts of us.

I am joined today by my friend Gail Stucker who is a trauma-informed story coach. Gail generously shares a story about herself as an 8th grader. Topics we cover: taking your story seriously when you don't believe you have any “capital T” trauma, longing for the delight of your parents, blessing your desire for delight as a good thing even though the unmet longing is agonizing, blessing anger at those who have harmed us, listening to the sensations in our bodies, and honoring what our hatred is telling us.

You have a story and that story matters. Your story in your family of origin significantly affects the way you think, feel, and act in the world today. This is why Dan Allender says, “It is time to listen to your story.” What if healing begins by listening to your story? By reflecting on the experiences in your growing up years, you can better understand why your brain has been shaped in the way that it has. If you want to experience more of the healing power of understanding your own story, join Dan, Cathy, and myself in Atlanta, GA, on Saturday February 22, 2025, for the StoryWork Conference. The conference will be live streamed if you can't make it to Atlanta. You can register by going to adamyoungcounseling.com. CEU's are available for therapists.

I am joined today by Dr. Dan Allender and Dr. Steve Call to talk about the complexities of marriage relationships. Dan and Steve recently co-authored a book titled, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight.” If you are committed to the growth of yourself and your spouse, marriage will be hard. Today, Dan and Steve talk about how the look and feel of our present marriages are tied to each partner's past story. We also discuss stuckness, shame, neurons, and blessing/cursing.

I dive into a detailed explanation of avoidant and ambivalent attachment. I explain why and how a child develops each of these insecure attachment styles. I then outline how you are supposed to know in adulthood if you have an avoidant or ambivalent attachment style. Your attachment style (secure, avoidant, or ambivalent) profoundly affects how you experience relationships and how you express yourself in relationship. And your attachment style develops based on your relationship with your primary caregivers.

The fundamental premise of story work is that your past story is affecting your present life. This is just as true for your collective story as it is for your individual story. Your present day to day life is deeply affected by the past story of the collective to which you belong. The story of America bears great glory and great sin, just like the story of Mexico, Poland, and Thailand. Every culture contains deep goodness and every culture contains deep sin. Part of the story of America includes destroying the original dwellers of this land, and then exploiting black laborers so that white people could build wealth. If you live in America, these aspects of our collective story have profound effects on present day to day life.

Memory is the way in which a past experience affects how the mind will function in the present. There are two layers of memory: explicit and implicit. There are two key attributes of implicit memory that are critical to understand. First, implicit memories are created whether you are paying attention or not. In other words, when you were a child, you recorded tons of information about your environment without trying to. It just happened. Because that's how the brain works. Second, when you recall something that is stored in implicit memory, you do not have the sensation of recall. You don't have that sense in your body of “I'm thinking back in time and remembering something.” When we leave home and set out into the world, we carry within us a storehouse of implicit memories. And those implicit memories tell us what to expect around every bend. 

Triangulation occurs when a parent requires a child to function as an emotional adult by meeting the parent's adult needs and wants. Were you required to give, give, give to your parent, or was your parent continually giving, giving, giving emotionally to you? In a healthy parent-child relationship, there is plenty of connection—but the parent never imposes their emotional needs on the child. Triangulation results in two deadly dynamics. First, your goodness is consumed by one parent. Second, as a result of being consumed by one parent, you are setup to be envied by the other parent. When triangulation is present in a family, it is common (though not inevitable) for the triangulated relationship to become sexualized. By sexualized, I mean that there is erotic energy between Mom and the chosen son or Dad and the chosen daughter.

Sexuality is an emotionally charged topic. Period. But when you are talking about sexuality for people with a history of trauma, you are stepping into terrain where angels fear to tread. However, if God intends for you to experience overflowing sexual pleasure and lavish sexual freedom, then exploring your sexual story is more than worth it. Human beings are aroused by particular things in the present because of our experiences of being aroused in the past. Your past story can help you understand why you are turned on by the things that turn you on. Your sexual preferences and sexual fantasies are not random. There is a connection between your painful experiences growing up and your present sexual struggles. Sexual harm in the past becomes reenacted in the present. This is because you have neurons... and that's how neurons operate.

I am joined today by therapist and friend Reid Zeller who shares a story about egging cars when he was 16. Behind every story is a backstory. The backstory includes the nature of the environment we grew up in. When religious or spiritual expectations are placed on the shoulders of a child, pressure builds within that child. And when that pressure inevitably leads to a bursting, what results is always a mixture of dignity and depravity. Both. If the podcast has been helpful to you, please consider supporting it financially. 

When you were a child, you were deeply dependent on your primary caretakers. This means that the development of your brain was contingent upon the level of care and kindness in your family environment. Today I identify the six things you needed from your parents, and give examples of each. The “Big Six” things you needed from your parents include (1) attunement, (2) responsiveness, (3) engagement, (4) ability to regulate your affect, (5) ability to handle your big emotions and (6) willingness to repair harm. To download a free document that explains the Big Six, click here.

If you have difficulty regulating your emotion, there is a reason for that! No one comes out of the womb with the ability to regulate their affect. The way you develop the neurobiological structures to regulate your own emotions is by having your affect interactively regulated by another. This is the main gift that a primary caregiver gives to a child. Another name for this gift is “secure attachment.” The essence of secure attachment in adulthood is that you have the ability to both self-regulate and reach for help (that is, receive regulation from another). If the podcast has been helpful to you, please consider supporting it financially by clicking here.

This episode is for people who experience emotional pain but feel like “nothing that bad happened to me growing up. I had a pretty good childhood.” As it says in Jeremiah 6, it is very common to dress our wounds as though they are not serious. One way we tend to minimize our wounds is by comparing our story to someone else who “had it worse.” Another way we minimize our wounds is by spiritualizing away the harmful experiences we endured with sentences like, “God used that terrible experience to shape my character.” What is keeping you from having compassion for the harm you experienced as a boy or a girl? If the podcast has been helpful to you, please consider supporting it financially here.

When I began exploring my story, five objections kept coming up for me. These objections kept me stuck. In today's episode, I respond to each of the five objections. Objection 1: I should focus on the present and the future, not "dwell on the past.” Objection 2: Looking at my story is self-indulgent, introspective navel gazing; I should be focused on God and others rather than focused on myself. Objection 3: Who am I to judge my parents? Jesus says "do not judge.” Besides, I don't want to blame my parents. Objection 4: There's no point in looking at how my parents hurt me because they did the best they could. Objection 5: I can't change what's already happened, so what's the point of looking at the past?

My invitation to you today is simple: to take your story seriously. Engaging your story is the single most important thing you can do to experience healing. When I say "your story," I'm talking more about the individual scenes than the overarching narrative of your life. Your stories—particularly your stories of heartache or harm—have shaped your brain more than anything else. Which means that your past stories are shaping your present life more than you may realize. To support the podcast financially, click here. 

In “As Long As You Need,” author J.S. Park writes that “Grief is not about letting go, but about letting in.” Letting in sorrow, letting in anger, and especially letting in other people who can be WITH us in our pain. This episode is about all kinds of grief—not merely the grief of losing a loved one. One of Joon Park's main points is that we often experience loneliness in the midst of our sorrow and pain. He says, “It is possible to be in a room full of people, but feel more lonely than if the room had been empty. It is to be unseen. Unseen by those close to you is in some ways worse than having no one see you.” 

I am joined today by author Jay Stringer to talk about sexual stuckness/difficulties/pain. Healthy sexuality is deeply tied to the degree to which we have made sense of our story in our family of origin. Sadly, so few of us have ever been asked to connect the dots between our past life story and the sexual difficulties we face in the present. Today, Jay and I try to connect some of those dots. If you want to understand your sexual story in more depth, please sign up for The Sexual Attachment Conference on May 4th. We want to help you understand and transform some of the unique sexual difficulties you may be experiencing either individually or as a couple. 

I am joined today by Dr. Hillary McBride to discuss excerpts from her new book titled, “Practices for Embodied Living.” Topics covered include: how to feel your feelings, being alive in your body (eroticism), and the story of your relationship to your sensuality and sexuality. Finally, I ask Hillary about her beautiful claim that we often find the Holy precisely in the places we were told not to look (including in our bodies).  

Pastor and counselor Mike Boland shares a story from when he was 15 years old. It's a story about the interplay of longing for connection and, at the same time, dreading what will be required of him in return. We talk about grooming, and the war of ambivalence that rages in one's body in the midst of abuse. You can find out more about Mike's work at therestinitiative.org.

The opposite of trauma is not "no trauma;" the opposite of trauma is connection. To be human is to be wounded. However, wounds heal naturally when the environment is right… and the right environment for healing is the empathic presence of another person. God made our brains and nervous systems to need one another. This is particularly true when it comes to engaging your story. You cannot engage your story alone. Sitting in your favorite chair with a journal, a Bible, a cup of coffee, and a good view out your window is not sufficient to heal your wounds. But the attuned presence of another human being can change your brain. 

Today I focus on two important ways that your body tells you things. The first is through your affect. Whenever your affect becomes dysregulated, your body is letting you know valuable information about your present environment… and about your past story. Dysregulation makes implicit memory known. And the second way that your body communicates with you is through impulses. Your body has impulses… impulses that it would like you to take more seriously than you probably do. Support the podcast.

You have a story and that story matters. Your story in your family of origin significantly affects the way you think, feel, and act in the world today. This is why Dan Allender says, “It is time to listen to your story.” What if healing begins by listening to your story? By reflecting on—and engaging—the experiences in your growing up years, you can better understand why your brain has been shaped in the way that it has. These are the topics that Dan, Cathy, and I explore in today's episode. If you want to experience more of the healing power of understanding your own story, join the three of us in Atlanta, GA, on Saturday February 3, 2024, for the StoryWork Conference. The conference will be live streamed if you can't make it to Atlanta. You can register by going to adamyoungcounseling.com. CEU's are available for therapists. 

Your body knows things that your enskulled brain does not. Moreover, if you listen, your body will tell you important things—things that will help you heal. Your body is a truth teller. It is the trustworthy prophet from within. In today's episode, I explain why it's so important to listen to your body… and how to do it.  Support the show

Friend and fellow therapist Matthias Roberts joins me today to share a very vulnerable story involving triangulation with his mother. How does an adolescent boy answer his Mom's questions about his homosexuality when Mom is disgusted by it? This is a story about Matthias' deep love for God… and the torment he felt as a result. We talk about Matthias' immense hope that God would “heal” his sexuality and how he came to feel God's blessing rather than shame. Support the podcast

Therapist and fellow podcaster Vanessa Sadler shares a story from when she was 11 years old. As children, all of us needed to belong—to feel “a part of.” If we did not receive sufficient attunement from our primary caregivers, we likely experienced high levels of loneliness. The dilemma is that it may not have felt like loneliness because it was such a normal part of your life. Vanessa talks candidly about her loneliness growing up, as well as how she came to experience significant healing from that loneliness. You can follow Vanessa on Instagram @abidinginstory. Support the show

I am joined today by therapist Jenny McGrath who is passionate about helping people heal from the damage of purity culture. One byproduct of purity culture is a disconnection from your body and a distrust of your body. If you feel shame about your body, or especially shame about your sexuality, this episode will hopefully help you. For those who want to dive deeper into these things, please consider signing up for Jenny's Embodied Sexuality course. You can use coupon code “PLACEWEFIND” to save $60 off the cost of the course.  Support the podcast

Matthias Roberts joins me today to talk about his book Holy Runaways: Rediscovering Faith After Being Burned By Religion. Topics covered include: why belonging is so crucial for each of us, how to trust when you've been betrayed by others so many times before, and why it's hard to open ourselves to actually receive care when it is available. 

We pick up with Curt sharing about Cora's experience in a story group. Specifically, we talk about about why Cora's intense bouts of panic were her body's way of saying “something is wrong and needs care and attention.” We also talk about a woman named Cheyney who experiences deep healing as a result of taking in the acceptance and embrace of other group members in the precise moment when she is feeling intense shame. This is how neural networks get rewired. This is how healing happens. We need other people.

Curt Thompson returns to the podcast to talk about how we heal from trauma. In short, trauma and emotional pain begin to heal when our stories are witnessed by an empathetic other. Curt shares a story from his newest book about a woman named Cora, who is disconnected from her emotions and finds it very hard to receive care from Curt. Curt's newest book about suffering and healing is called The Deepest Place. 

Jimmy McGee and Rebecca Wheeler Walston join me to talk about how they came to understand the importance of trauma and story engagement. If you want to engage your story in more depth, the Impact Movement is hosting an online event called Hope and Anchor Story Weekend. This zoom event will take place Sept 30 to Oct 1. You can find out more here.

Jenn talks about how she often felt excluded and on the outside during childhood—“I felt so far from people all the time. I felt so far from myself. I was always over-thinking, never in my body.” As she grew into adulthood, Jenn became opposed to weakness. However, something in her broke after having children and not being able to hold it all together. In today's episode, Jenn shares a story from first grade and links her childhood trauma to her adulthood struggles.

I am joined today by my friend Rebekah, who shares a story from when she was six years old. Topics covered include: feeling like there is something wrong with you but not knowing what it is, self-doubt about how you see reality, difficulty trusting your gut, learning to listen to your body and to trust the information that it is giving you.

Fellow therapist Mary Ellen Owen joins me today to share her journey with sorrow. Like many people with trauma, it took Mary Ellen years to find her tears, years to befriend her sorrow. Although she cognitively knew that grief was necessary for healing, something within her said “hell no” to feeling the unfelt sorrow. In this final episode in a series on grief and sorrow, Mary Ellen shares how she came to befriend her sorrow. In the words of Fredrick Buechner, “Whenever you find tears in your eyes, especially unexpected tears, it is well to pay the closest attention. They are not only telling you something about the secret of who you are but, more often than not, God is speaking to you through them of the mystery of where you have come from and is summoning you to where, if your soul is to be saved, you should go to next.”

I am joined today by Heather Stringer, who has lots of experience creating rituals that heal. Heather begins by describing two rituals: one focused on recovering from sexual assault and the second focused on preparing for a double mastectomy surgery. Heather and I talk about why ritual is so unfamiliar to many of us, and the healing that occurs when we begin to move our bodies in particular ways, especially when others are present to bear witness to the ritual. 

I am joined by Cathy Loerzel to talk about how to engage another person's story. Effective story engagement is not a magical skill that some people have and some people don't. It can be learned. Today we give a preview of some of the principles and tactics of effective story engagement. If you want to learn more, consider joining us on Saturday, May 13, for a zoom conference on How to Engage Another Person's Story. You can sign up here.

Jay Stringer joins me to talk about the relationship between our current sexual difficulties and our story in our family of origin. Sexual struggles are rooted in our stories—and, very often, our stories of attachment to our primary caretakers. As Jay puts it, “When it comes to sexual struggles, there are always two story lines at play: there is the story line of your present sexual struggles, and then there is the story line of your growing up experiences which set you up for those present sexual struggles.” If you want to explore your sexual story in more depth, please sign up for the Sexual Attachment Conference on May 5-6. You can sign up here. 

In order to heal from sorrow, we need to move our bodies as we participate in rituals of honoring and releasing our sorrow. A ritual is a sequence of bodily movements and symbolic actions performed with emotion and intention for the purpose of healing and transformation. By the end of this episode, I hope you have a good understanding of what a ritual is and why rituals work. And I hope you begin to develop an imagination for how to do rituals, what it actually might look like for you. You can perform a ritual by yourself. However, rituals are more powerful—and more healing for the community—when others are involved as witnesses to your pain.

This is part 2 in a series of episodes on how to engage our sorrow and grief in a way that brings healing. The focus today is on the four conditions needed to allow us to work with sorrow and grief. First, we need to own that our sorrows and griefs matter and should be taken seriously. Second, we need to gradually move from a posture of contempt toward our sorrow and grief to a posture of compassion and kindness and welcome. Third, we need to find a few people who can be the village for us… this will allow us to risk sharing our sorrow and grief with other people. And, fourth, we need to move our bodies in a way that allows for the integration and release of our sorrow and grief. 

For most modern people, the place we find ourselves is in a land where grief and sorrow are unwelcome. Most of us do not feel like the people around us can bear the depth of our sorrow and grief. And since we don't want to risk our sense of belonging—our sense of acceptance—we hide our sorrow and grief. But sorrow and grief are real. In today's episode, I identify some of the types of sorrow and grief that we all carry. Then I discuss the immense cost of denying our sorrow/grief and invite you to consider what it would look like to welcome your sorrow and grief and bring it into the light.

This episode is a joint release of The Allender Center podcast and The Place We Find Ourselves. We have all experienced hurt, abandonment, or disappointment at the hands of our parents or caretakers, whether it was intentional or not. So much of our beauty and brokenness — so much of what makes us human — is tied to our family of origin. In today's episode, Dan Allender and I discuss what it means to begin engaging the harm that we endured during our growing up years. Are we dishonoring our father and mother if we name the hurt we experienced growing up? Should we just “let it go?” If you want to learn more about how to engage your story in your family of origin, please join Dan and I for a 2 hour webinar on February 23, 2023. You can register here.

I'm joined today by theologian and author Pete Enns, who also co-hosts a podcast called The Bible for Normal People. Although we talk about quantum physics at the end, the focus of our conversation is “What do you do when you experience something that calls into question your understanding of who God is and what God is doing in the world?” Pete calls these experiences curveballs, and he suggests that these experiences are good things that cause us to grow and mature in our faith. If you want to hear more about this topic, you can check out his recently published book Curveball.

God created our hearts, minds, and bodies to heal. When the conditions are right, healing will occur. Therefore, it's important to clear away the things that block the right conditions for healing. Today I discuss four of the most common obstacles to healing: minimizing your story, spiritualizing the bad things that have happened to you, self-contempt, and the frenetic pace of your life.

Last year I saw an Instagram post asking people to share stories of Bible verses that had been used against them. The comments section was devastating. I read story after story of how the Bible had been used to do immense harm. The verse that was most frequently mentioned? Jeremiah 17:9, which says, “the heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure.” In today's episode I take a close look at what Jeremiah 17:9 is really saying. I also make some comments about what the Bible teaches concerning whether or not your heart can be trusted. 

Connections between brain regions lead to a healthy and stable brain (and a healthy and stable life). Trauma prevents these brain connections. This is known as fragmentation. In today's episode, I explain how trauma leads to fragmentation in the brain and why fragmentation makes you feel unstable in your day to day life. I then suggest that when we feel unstable, we are drawn toward theologies and worldviews that offer certainty. The fragmentation in your brain resulting from trauma can make you a very dogmatic person. Why? Because, as Dan Allender says, “The more certain you become, the less fragmented you feel.”

Pascale Wright joins me today to share a very vulnerable story from her childhood. The temptation is to view her story as one of neglect… but it's not. We cover a lot of ground today, including: Pascale's ambivalence about longing for care from her therapist and being afraid of his care at the same time, how our family of origin story plays out in the client-therapist relationship, how our family of origin story affects our relationship with God, and the mysteriousness of self-harm.

Today's episode looks more deeply at the spiritual abuse KJ Ramsey suffered at the hands of Christian leaders. We begin by talking about the relationship that many Christians have with their emotions. Drawing from her story of spiritual abuse, KJ talks about the pull to silence parts of ourselves in the name of belonging. We each have a deep desire to belong… and the fear of exclusion sometimes keeps us bound to abusive people and harmful churches. KJ explains that when we are wounded by spiritual leaders, we often lose our ability to trust ourselves. If you want to hear more of KJ's story, check out her recently published book titled The Lord Is My Courage. 

I am joined by KJ Ramsey to talk through her new book, “The Lord Is My Courage.” KJ explains why it's so important to be honest and clear about the ways we have been harmed, and how our bodies often reveal truths about our trauma that our minds are afraid to speak out loud. Gabor Mate says that “Trauma is not what happens to us, but what we hold inside in the absence of an empathetic witness.” KJ and I both love that sentence and share our thoughts about it. 

Many people with a history of trauma find themselves stuck. Stuck in a place of hopelessness about our own healing. It's this sense of “nothing significant is really going to change for me.” The present ordering of your life—the way things are—claims to be the final ordering of your life. Drawing from the book of Jeremiah, today's episode explores the question, “What if God is free to create a new beginning in your life that is underived from your present circumstances?”