Podcasts about allender center

What do you do when the very place that was supposed to nourish your soul becomes a source of deep harm? In this deeply moving and necessary conversation, therapist, pastor, and trauma specialist Rachael Clinton Chen joins Dr. Alison Cook to talk about the pain of spiritual abuse—and what it looks like to begin healing from it. Whether you've experienced overt harm in a religious setting or carry subtle wounds from spiritual messaging that shaped your identity in unhealthy ways, this episode offers a gentle, powerful invitation toward healing, dignity, and reclaiming your voice. Rachael shares: Her own story of healing from spiritual abuseWhy spiritual pain is often so hard to name How systems of control in churches and families silence women and survivors The importance of embodiment and “coming home to yourself” in healing A theological lens for honoring your anger, grief, and truth If you've ever questioned your worth because of how faith was used against you—or wondered how to hold onto your spirituality while confronting the harm—you're not alone. This episode is full of insight, validation, and hope for your journey.

On this episode: Nate Luau's at Presbyterian Church. Aaron withholds his “arr,” he wants it so bean something. This week, Nate and Aaron interview Gail Stucker. Gail is an Allender Center trained story work coach working with individuals, couples, and groups. She shares her story of finding Jesus in para-church ministries. Gail shares her experiences of “purity culture” not being fireworks, relationship bliss, and all the promises from Ephesians. Discussing that if men don't feel desired, they would rather be mowing the lawn. Gail talks about how her heart changed towards herself and others after seeing others and being seen in story work. And finally, she walks us through how to discuss his and her feelings and needs.Links: Gail StuckerBooks Mentioned: God Loves Sex: An Honest Conversation About Sexual Desire and Holiness The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and DelightSept. 12-14, 2025 Austrian Retreat Nov 7-9, 2025 Santa Fe, NM Samson Summit Nov 7-9, 2025 The Wild & Sacred Journey, Womens RetreatSponsor: Life Works CounselingIf you have thoughts or questions and you'd like the guys to address in upcoming episodes or suggestions for future guests, please drop a note to piratemonkpodcast@gmail.com.The music on this podcast is contributed by members of the Samson Society.For more information on this ministry, please visit samsonsociety.com. Support for the women in our lives who have been impacted by our choices is available at sarahsociety.com.The Pirate Monk Podcast is provided by Samson Society, a ministry of Samson House, a 501(c)3 nonprofit. To enjoy future Pirate Monk podcasts, please consider a contribution to Samson House.   amazon.com The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight [Allender, Dr. Dan B., Call, Dr. Steve] on Amazon.com. FREE shipping on qualifying offers. The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight (148 kB) https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Rooted-Marriage-Cultivating-Intimacy-Healing/dp/1400344468     Samson House Store Samson European Retreat: RAV 47 — Samson House Store 38 hours + 5 meals + 3 Samson meetings + 1 mountain ascent = 47 lives changed forever     Samson House Store 2025 Samson Summit — Samson House Store Join us for an unforgettable weekend to explore your story, deepen your relationships, and live out your story as fully as God intended. When: November 7-9, 2025 Where: Camp Glorieta , a 2,400-acre campus located about 15 miles southeast of Santa Fe, New Mexico Lodging Options Available.        

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Every marriage is an ongoing story with its own highs and lows, joys and difficulties. Depending on which season we are in, we may start to see marriage as the best thing that has ever happened to us or the source of our angst. If you've been following our journey for a while, you know that my husband Mark and I share openly about the struggles as well as the victories in our marriage. God has used every obstacle we've encountered to grow us in so many ways.The truth we hope you walk away with today is that marriage is actually our ultimate invitation to grow.  If we allow it, God will use our marriage to shape us into someone who is deeper, healthier, and more rooted in Christ. Our guest believes wholeheartedly that if we are willing to examine the stories of our past that are influencing the present, we can write a new story for the future.Dr. Dan Allender has a long history in the therapy world. As the author of over two dozen books and the founder of The Allender Center, he believes that true healing and restoration occur when we courageously step into our stories of pain.In this episode, you'll hear:The value of vulnerably stepping into each other's pastsWhy it's important to disrupt destructive patternsOne of the key factors to resolve any conflictAnd more!These principles have proven so beneficial in our marriage. We hope this conversation helps you write a new story for your own relationships.Find resources mentioned and more in the show notes: jillsavage.org/dan-allender-248You're invited to our Transform Weekend June 6-8, 2025 or October 17-19, 2025. Learn more and register here.Check out our other resources: Mark and Jill's Marriage Story Marriage Coaching Marriage 2.0 Intensives Speaking Schedule Book Mark and Jill to Speak Online Courses Books Marriage Resources: Infidelity Recovery For Happy Marriages For Hurting Marriages For Marriages Where You're the Only One Wanting to Get Help Mom Resources: New/Preschool Moms Moms with Gradeschoolers Moms with Teens and Tweens Moms with Kids Who Are Launching Empty Nest...

What does it mean to objectify yourself? Sam Jolman explains objectification, why and how we objectify ourselves, and what healing and repentance can look like. Sam Jolman (MA, LPC) is a trauma therapist with over twenty years of experience specializing in men's issues and sexual trauma recovery. His writing flows out of this unique opportunity to help people know and heal their stories, and find greater sexual wholeness and aliveness. He received his master's in counseling from Reformed Theological Seminary and was further trained in Narrative Focused Trauma Care through the Allender Center at The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. Sam lives in Colorado with his wife and three sons. Fun fact: Sam and Drew attend the same church! Learn more at samjolman.comBuy Sam's book: The Sex Talk You Never Got: Reclaiming the Heart of Masculine SexualityWrite a review of The Sex Talk You Never Got: https://amazon.com/review/create-review?&asin=1400243904Listen to Sam's first Husband Material interview: It's Good To Be Aroused (with Sam Jolman)Support the showTake the Husband Material Journey... Step 1: Listen to this podcast or watch on YouTube Step 2: Join the private Husband Material Community Step 3: Take the free mini-course: How To Outgrow Porn Step 4: Try the all-in-one program: Husband Material Academy Thanks for listening!

If you've experienced the healing power of engaging your story—through a Story Workshop, Recovery Week, Narrative Focused Trauma Care® (NFTC) training, or a Story Group in your own context—you may have found yourself wondering: Why does this work feel so deeply transformative? What's actually happening here? In this special episode, we're pulling back the curtain on a groundbreaking, multi-year research project that's beginning to explore those very questions. Dr. Danielle Zurinsky of the Allender Center and Dr. David C. Wang of Fuller Theological Seminary join Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to share what they're discovering so far—and why this moment matters. This work is part of a broader initiative we're calling the NFTC Model Research & Publication Project. It's an ambitious, long-term effort to clarify, codify, and formally articulate the core framework of Narrative Focused Trauma Care. Grounded in the decades-long work of Dr. Dan Allender, this project is about more than research—it's about building a foundation that allows this healing model to be recognized, trusted, and shared more widely. In today's conversation, we're letting you in early—before the publications—because we want this process to be rooted in relationship, transparency, and shared vision. Whether you're a practitioner, a past participant, or someone simply curious about the impact of story, you're part of this unfolding journey, too! And if your own healing has been shaped by story engagement with NFTC, this is a chance to be part of something bigger. You can support the continuation of this growing body of research—fueling everything from the team of scholars and writers to expanded training opportunities and broader recognition in therapeutic, academic, and spiritual spaces. You can visit theallendercenter.org/give to contribute at any financial level. We are currently fundraising to support the next phase of this project's continuation. Your contribution will help ensure this work continues—so more people, families, and communities can experience the deep transformation that comes through engaging their stories with courage and care. To learn more about NFTC, visit theallendercenter.org/nftc

Sometimes, when you feel stuck, and overwhelmed, you don't need more and better information. Sometimes you need to engage your story, to better understand how the past influences the present. That's what we talk about with Adam Young. Adam Young is a therapist who focuses on trauma and abuse, and the host of The Place We Find Ourselves podcast. He currently serves as a Fellow and Instructor at The Allender Center.  Adam is the author of Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Story with Kindness Changes Everything.Also, check out his mini-conference hosted each month. Adam explains the concept of story work as a therapeutic and spiritual practice that helps individuals understand how their past experiences shape their present. He emphasizes the importance of approaching one's story with kindness and the role of attachment, neuroscience, and spirituality in the healing process. They also delve into the significance of exploring familial, cultural, and spiritual narratives to achieve wholeness and integration, or 'Shalom.' Additionally, Adam provides insights into addressing common resistance to story work and the importance of leaders engaging in this process to foster supportive community environments. He concludes by sharing information about his ongoing mini-conference series aimed at helping individuals delve deeper into their stories.Stay Connected: Check out our Attaching to God 6-Week Learning Cohort. Join the Embodied Faith community to stay connected and get posts, episodes, & resources. Support the podcast with a one-time or regular gift (to keep this ad-free without breaking the Holsclaw's bank).

Today Dan and Rachael welcome longtime friend and Allender Center Facilitator Adam Young, LCSW, to the podcast for a deeply moving conversation about the unexpected plot twists that shape our stories—and how they can become sacred invitations to connection, healing, and transformation.   Adam, who is a counselor, author, podcast host, and an NFTC Certified Instructor & Facilitator with the Allender Center, joins us to talk about his new book, Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything.   He vulnerably shares about a life-altering moment that brought him to his knees, and ultimately, into deeper communion with God. Together, Adam, Dan, and Rachael explore why revisiting the painful parts of our stories isn't a detour from growth, but the very path that helps us make sense of who we are today and imagine who we're becoming. Whether it's the story of our family of origin, our bodies, our culture, or our relationship with God, Adam offers practical and grace-filled ways to approach our histories with kindness instead of shame. Join us for today's conversation to consider how you can engage your past with even more courage and kindness—and to discover freedom, healing, and hope along the way. If you haven't already, don't wait - order your copy of Adam Young's new book, Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything:  https://adamyoungcounseling.com/ or https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540904695/  ==== More Resources from the Allender Center: Free Guided Story Exercise – Take the next step in engaging your story with a free guided reflection and writing resource: theallendercenter.org/story Join a Story Workshop – Go deeper in your healing journey with others at an upcoming Story Workshop: theallendercenter.org/workshops    

Your past is not truly past; it is still impacting you today. In this episode, Dr. Carol talks with trauma therapist and licensed clinical social worker Adam Young to explore how making sense of your story can lead to freedom, meaning, and transformation. We unpack the ways your past still holds power over you—often in ways you don't even realize—and why resistance to facing your story is so common. Adam Young shares insights into how memory works, why certain moments from your past feel “stuck,” and how your brain and body hold onto experiences and bring them into the present. You'll especially appreciate our discussion of God's role in your story - not as a spiritual bypass, but as a fully honest and yet deeply kind way of finding your relationship with God in your story. Connect with Adam Young on his counseling website, on Facebook, or Instagram. Learn more about the Allender Center. Find Adam's book Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything Find out more about Dr. Carol Ministries in-person intensives - a safe place to unpack your story and experience Jesus coming into your story to bring healing and wholeness. Dr. Carol loves to hear from you. You can send a confidential message here.

Today is part 2 of the conversation with Rachel Clinton Chen about healing from spiritual abuse. Rachel discusses ways our cultural values have influenced leadership in churches, often valuing charisma over genuine pastoral care, which sometimes leads to spiritual abuse. We also discuss what to do in the case of people unintentionally contributing to spiritual abuse - sometimes due to their own unresolved trauma. Love and Humility have to be a part of the conversation! Finally we talk about the new online course available through the Allender Center. See the links below for significant resources available for you. RESOURCES:Find out more about the Allender Center at the Seattle School of Theology and Psychology with a link to their podcast  HERESpiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course -  This six-lesson course, complete with reflective practices and deep dive panel discussions, helps you engage your body, mind, and spirit as you unpack the harm caused by spiritual abuse.Story Workshop for Spiritual Abuse & Healing - Our mission at The Allender Center is rooted in the belief that our stories are best understood and healed when we share them with others. We're honored to introduce the new Story Workshop for Spiritual Abuse & Healing—an immersive experience designed to guide you through the complex process of healing from religious trauma and spiritual harm and reclaiming your faith. This is a three day virtual workshop held May 16-18, including large group teaching and small group story work with a seasoned facilitator. Free Checklist: How to identify the signs of spiritual abuseContact Cyndi Parker through Narrative of Place.Join Cyndi Parker's  Patreon Team!

Today we are talking about the sticky subject of spiritual abuse in the church. To lead us on the journey is Rachael Clinton Chen. Rachael is devoted to addressing the harm of abuse – especially spiritual abuse – at the intersection of trauma, healing, embodiment and spiritual formation. She leads the Story Workshop for Spiritual Abuse & Healing and recently developed the Allender Center's Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course, inviting survivors of spiritual abuse to journey together towards healing and reclamation.RESOURCES:Find out more about the Allender Center at the Seattle School of Theology and Psychology with a link to their podcast  HERESpiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course -  This six-lesson course, complete with reflective practices and deep dive panel discussions, helps you engage your body, mind, and spirit as you unpack the harm caused by spiritual abuse.Story Workshop for Spiritual Abuse & Healing - Our mission at The Allender Center is rooted in the belief that our stories are best understood and healed when we share them with others. We're honored to introduce the new Story Workshop for Spiritual Abuse & Healing—an immersive experience designed to guide you through the complex process of healing from religious trauma and spiritual harm and reclaiming your faith. This is a three day virtual workshop held May 16-18, including large group teaching and small group story work with a seasoned facilitator. Free Checklist: How to identify the signs of spiritual abuseContact Cyndi Parker through Narrative of Place.Join Cyndi Parker's  Patreon Team!

Take a brief survey for the show to influence future episodes.Note: I have listeners of all faith backgrounds that listen to the podcast. This episode is coming from a christian perspective so if that's something that doesn't fit what you're looking for, check out the other episode that dropped this week or join me back here next Tuesday for a conversation that you don't want to miss!Every relationship has its highs and lows, but we often don't know what to do with our "lows," or how we ended up there. In today's conversation, I sit down with therapist and author Dan Allender to discuss his new book, Deep-Rooted Marriage. He shares how deeper intimacy can be a source of healing and joy. More often than not, the hidden forces fueling conflict and disconnection stem from the unresolved stories of our past. But if we're willing to examine them with honesty and courage, we can begin to rewrite a new, more hopeful story for the future.Links Discussed in This Episode |Podcast Episode: Diary of a CEO with Paul BrunsonConnect with Dan:InstagramWebsiteBook: The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight About Dan|Dr. Dan Allender is a pioneer of a unique and innovative approach to trauma and abuse therapy. He earned a master of divinity from Westminster Theological Seminary, followed by a Ph.D. in counseling psychology from Michigan State University. Dan served on the faculty of the Biblical Counseling Department at Grace Theological Seminary from 1983 to 1989 and at Colorado Christian University from 1989 to 1997. In 1997, Dan and a cadre of others founded the Seattle School of Theology & Psychology, where he served as president from 2002 to 2009. In 2011, he established The Allender Center with the mission of fostering healing and equipping leaders and mental health professionals with the courage to confront others' stories of harm. Dan has authored or co-authored over two dozen books and continues to serve as a professor of counseling psychology at the Seattle School.Episode Sponsors |The Minimalist Moms Podcast would not be possible without the support of weekly sponsors. Choosing brands that I believe in is important to me. I only want to recommend brands that I believe may help you in your daily life. As always, never feel pressured into buying anything. Remember: if you don't need it, it's not a good deal!Enjoy the Podcast?Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your fellow mothers so that they can be inspired to think more and do with less. Order (or review) my book, Minimalist Moms: Living & Parenting With Simplicity.Questions |You can contact me through my website, find me on Instagram, Pinterest or like The Minimalist Moms Page on Facebook.Checkout the Minimalist Moms Podcast storefront for recommendations from Diane.If you've been struggling with motivation to declutter or work through bad habits that keep you stuck, I'd love to help you achieve your goals! We'll work together (locally or virtually) to discover what areas in your life are high priority to get you feeling less overwhelmed right away.  For more info on my processes, fees, and availability please contact!Our Sponsors:* Check out Armoire and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Avocado Green Mattress: https://www.avocadogreenmattress.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/minimalist-moms-podcast2093/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender, a pioneer in Christian counseling and founder of The Allender Center, joins Dr. Alison to explore the raw, real work of marriage, trauma, and intimacy. Known for his groundbreaking book, The Wounded Heart, Allender has spent decades teaching how personal trauma shapes relationships. And on the very day of his 48th wedding anniversary, he openly shares how these dynamics continue to play out in his own marriage. In this episode, we dive into: * The surprising (and hilarious) fight he and his wife had the night before their anniversary * Why marriage is both heaven and hell—and why that's actually a good thing * The childhood wounds that have impacted his own marriage * Why logic doesn't help when we get emotionally hijacked * How to fight well and grow through conflict Check out The Deep Rooted Marriage anywhere books are sold. Have a question for Dr. Alison? Leave it here. Find a full transcript and list of resources from this episode here. If you enjoyed this episode, you'll love: Episode 137: The Mindful Marriage—Overcome Pain Cycles and Discover the Surprising Secret to Lasting Love with Ron and Nan Deal Thanks to our sponsors: Go to Quince.com/bestofyou for 365-day returns, plus free shipping on your order! Go to AquaTru.com and enter code BESTOFYOU at checkout to get 20% OFF any AquaTru purifier! Contact Restoring the Soul today and learn how their Intensive Counseling Process can jump start your journey to the place you want to be. As a special gift for The Best of You podcast listeners, download their free pdf "5 Ways Unresolved Trauma May Be Derailing Your Relationship." Turn back time on the appearance of your skin with Purity Woods's Age-Defying Dream Cream. Go to puritywoods.com/BESTOFYOU or enter code BESTOFYOU at checkout for an additional 10% off your first order. Music by Andy Luiten Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Adam Young is a trauma therapist and the host of The Place We Find Ourselves podcast. He is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) with master's degrees in social work and divinity. Adam regularly speaks at conferences and currently serves as an instructor and facilitator with The Allender Center in addition to his private practice. He lives in Fort Collins, Colorado, with his wife and two children. His new book, Make Sense of Your Story, is available now. Key Topics: - What it means to engage in “story work” and why it matters - How to feel your unfelt feelings - The concept of your body as a “truth-teller” and how not to dismiss the information it gives you - How to dig into what your body is telling you - Why Christians are uncomfortable with the idea of listening to their bodies - The problem with minimizing and spiritualizing your story - Understanding your story with God - Moving towards shame instead of away from it - How making sense of your story impacts all your relationships Learn more about Adam at https://adamyoungcounseling.com/ and buy his new book wherever books are sold. Get Erin's FREE Food is Mood Guide here: https://mailchi.mp/055b20577ebc/food-is-mood-guide

Today Heather Creekmore interviews an author, therapist, and pioneer in the trauma and abuse world, Dr. Dan Allender. As we wrap up our month-long series on marriage, today Heather and Dr. Allender explore how our past traumas impact our marriage, how our hurts from our family of origin may have actually impacted who we chose to marry, and how we can help our spouses heal and name their own woundings so that together we can have more than just a "good marriage," we instead can grow together as a couple who is able to honor and delight in each other.

In this powerful conversation, Rachael Clinton Chen, a trauma care practitioner and co-host of The Allender Center Podcast, joins us to discuss the deep impact of spiritual abuse and the church's responsibility in creating safe spaces for healing. With a heart devoted to addressing the harm of abuse, especially spiritual abuse, Rachael shares her insights on trauma, embodiment, and spiritual formation, and how the church can be a place of reclamation rather than harm. As a contemplative charismatic and advocate for justice, mercy, and humility, Rachael offers wisdom on navigating the complexities of healing in faith communities. Join us as we explore the intersection of trauma and spirituality, and discover how we can begin to rebuild the church as a sanctuary for true restoration. In addition to exploring the healing potential within faith communities, Rachael highlights the critical role that churches can play in cultivating trauma-informed spaces by first acknowledging the realities of abuse. By recognizing the power differences that often exist between leaders and congregants, churches can begin to dismantle harmful structures and create more equitable environments. Rachael emphasizes that addressing abuse openly, offering validation to survivors, and empowering individuals to reclaim their voice are essential steps in transforming communities. By fostering humility, transparency, and a deep commitment to justice, churches can become spaces where trauma is not only acknowledged, but where healing is actively nurtured, restoring trust and hope in the process. For more information on Rachael's work, check out the Allender Center's Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course. Also check out the Allender Center Podcast or Rachel's bio!

Today, we dive into the power of reckoning with our personal stories - the formative experiences and wounds from our past that shape who we are today, often in ways we don't fully understand. My guest, Adam Young, has spent years helping people make sense of their stories, to find freedom and wholeness. As Adam shares, the truth is, our past isn't just the past - it's deeply woven into our present. The feelings, fears, and patterns we carry from childhood can profoundly impact our relationships, our mental health, even our sense of calling. But the good news is, our brains have an incredible capacity for change and integration. Through curiosity, kindness, and the support of others, we can begin to uncover the hidden narratives that have been subtly steering the course of our lives. And in doing so, we open the door to a deeper, truer version of ourselves - one that can finally step into the unique purpose we were made for. This is a conversation about the transformative power of reckoning with our stories, no matter how messy or painful they may be. It's about finding the courage to face our past, so we can step more fully into our future. So join us as we make sense of our stories. Adam Young is a therapist who focuses on trauma and abuse, and the host of The Place We Find Ourselves podcast. Adam is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) with a Master degree in Social Work (Virginia Commonwealth University) and Divinity (Emory University). Adam is the author of Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Story with Kindness Changes Everything. He currently serves as a Fellow and Instructor at The Allender Center. Adam lives in Fort Collins, CO, with his wife and two children.Adam's Book:Make Sense of Your StoryAdam's Recommendations:The Prophetic ImaginationGenesis: InterpretationSubscribe to Our Substack: Shifting CultureConnect with Joshua: jjohnson@allnations.usGo to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.Follow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Threads, Bluesky or Email jjohnson@allnations.us, so we can get your creative project off the ground! Email jjohnson@allnations.us, so we can get your creative project off the ground! Faith That Challenges. Conversations that Matter. Laughs included. Subscribe Now!Breaking down faith, culture & big questions - a mix of humor with real spiritual growth. Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify Faith That Challenges. Conversations that Matter. Laughs included. Subscribe Now!Breaking down faith, culture & big questions - a mix of humor with real spiritual growth. Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifySupport the show

"Marriage can be heaven, and marriage can be hell." -Dan Allender Anyone who is married knows that marriage can reach the extremes of human experience, and sometimes even in the same day. It's the lab in which we grow personally, and where we grow together. It's also the place where everything can fall apart. Today Dan Allender of The Allender Center joins us to explore the transformative power of marriage, particularly in midlife. He talks about the deep work of understanding one another's stories, the role of trauma in relationships (even if you feel like you don't have any), and the necessity of dealing with emotional triggers. Dan is both funny and deeply inspiring. He is an expert at the top of his field, and also the first one to reveal and share what he is experiencing in his own imperfect marriage. You will gain insight into the complexities of relationships, the importance of change-agents in marriage, the dynamics of conflict resolution, and come to a fresh understanding of how fighting for marriage is deeply spiritual work. SOME THINGS YOU HEARD ON THE SHOW: The Deeply Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Healing, Intimacy, and Delight by Dan Allender and Steve Call Unwanted by Jay Stringer website-Dan Allender Quotes from the episode: 35% of divorces are "gray divorces," meaning they involve couples 50 years of ago and older. Our brains have the power to change, but only by engagement deeply within what we'll call our right hemisphere, our emotional portions. If there is not a fabric of forgiveness, then we are in deep waters without a paddle. Difference is where almost all conflict begins. 70 % of the conflict in marriage does not have a right answer. You grow in trust by the capacity to deal with conflict, not to resolve, but to a deepened understanding. And to a deepened understanding allows us to allow difference to continue to occur.but without either the fear or the judgment that's often there. I hope the sense of having work to do is kind of like, I get to put my foot on the neck of evil here. Hell no, I do not want something that has lingered in my body and my heart and my mind to continue to shape something of how I respond to the future. QUESTIONS TO HELP YOU RISE What part of your story can you re-engage with your spouse in order to work toward greater healing? Hint: think about what triggers you. What part of your spouse's story can you re-engage? If 70% of all arguments don't have a "right answer," how can you adjust how you've been approaching a conflict area with your spouse? The change agents Dan lists in his book are humility, honesty, kindness, curiosity, defiance, and an intention to bless. What one is most needed right now in your marriage? How can you "stand on the neck of evil" and push past a particularly difficult part of your marriage? LET'S CONNECT! Did you like this episode? Let us know and leave a review on itunes or share it with a friend. Or message us on Instagram – we'd love to hear from you! Get the Daily Dozen Checklist -12 habits that will immediately make you happier and healthier

Today, on Karl and Crew, we went straight to the root of our weekly theme of marriage, with a discussion about looking beyond the surface when addressing issues within your marriage. Do you and your spouse ever have explosive arguments over little things? Those little things may be rooted in a deeper issue that hasn’t been openly addressed or resolved. God wants us to go to the root of the problem and create a new foundation with Him so that healing can begin. Dr. Dan Allender joined the conversation as he provided insight into how those small arguments stem from deeper and bigger issues. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist who focuses on marriage, trauma and sexual abuse. Dr. Allender also is the co-founder of The Allender Center and an author. He has authored several books including, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we went straight to the root of our weekly theme of marriage, with a discussion about looking beyond the surface when addressing issues within your marriage. Do you and your spouse ever have explosive arguments over little things? Those little things may be rooted in a deeper issue that hasn’t been openly addressed or resolved. God wants us to go to the root of the problem and create a new foundation with Him so that healing can begin. Dr. Dan Allender joined the conversation as he provided insight into how those small arguments stem from deeper and bigger issues. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist who focuses on marriage, trauma and sexual abuse. Dr. Allender also is the co-founder of The Allender Center and an author. He has authored several books including, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we went straight to the root of our weekly theme of marriage, with a discussion about looking beyond the surface when addressing issues within your marriage. Do you and your spouse ever have explosive arguments over little things? Those little things may be rooted in a deeper issue that hasn’t been openly addressed or resolved. God wants us to go to the root of the problem and create a new foundation with Him so that healing can begin. Dr. Dan Allender joined the conversation as he provided insight into how those small arguments stem from deeper and bigger issues. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist who focuses on marriage, trauma and sexual abuse. Dr. Allender also is the co-founder of The Allender Center and an author. He has authored several books including, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we went straight to the root of our weekly theme of marriage, with a discussion about looking beyond the surface when addressing issues within your marriage. Do you and your spouse ever have explosive arguments over little things? Those little things may be rooted in a deeper issue that hasn’t been openly addressed or resolved. God wants us to go to the root of the problem and create a new foundation with Him so that healing can begin. Dr. Dan Allender joined the conversation as he provided insight into how those small arguments stem from deeper and bigger issues. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist who focuses on marriage, trauma and sexual abuse. Dr. Allender also is the co-founder of The Allender Center and an author. He has authored several books including, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we went straight to the root of our weekly theme of marriage, with a discussion about looking beyond the surface when addressing issues within your marriage. Do you and your spouse ever have explosive arguments over little things? Those little things may be rooted in a deeper issue that hasn’t been openly addressed or resolved. God wants us to go to the root of the problem and create a new foundation with Him so that healing can begin. Dr. Dan Allender joined the conversation as he provided insight into how those small arguments stem from deeper and bigger issues. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist who focuses on marriage, trauma and sexual abuse. Dr. Allender also is the co-founder of The Allender Center and an author. He has authored several books including, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we went straight to the root of our weekly theme of marriage, with a discussion about looking beyond the surface when addressing issues within your marriage. Do you and your spouse ever have explosive arguments over little things? Those little things may be rooted in a deeper issue that hasn’t been openly addressed or resolved. God wants us to go to the root of the problem and create a new foundation with Him so that healing can begin. Dr. Dan Allender joined the conversation as he provided insight into how those small arguments stem from deeper and bigger issues. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist who focuses on marriage, trauma and sexual abuse. Dr. Allender also is the co-founder of The Allender Center and an author. He has authored several books including, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we went straight to the root of our weekly theme of marriage, with a discussion about looking beyond the surface when addressing issues within your marriage. Do you and your spouse ever have explosive arguments over little things? Those little things may be rooted in a deeper issue that hasn’t been openly addressed or resolved. God wants us to go to the root of the problem and create a new foundation with Him so that healing can begin. Dr. Dan Allender joined the conversation as he provided insight into how those small arguments stem from deeper and bigger issues. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist who focuses on marriage, trauma and sexual abuse. Dr. Allender also is the co-founder of The Allender Center and an author. He has authored several books including, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

At the Allender Center, we love stories—and this week, we're honored to hear from Charlie Peacock as he shares his own. His brand-new memoir, “Roots and Rhythm: A Life in Music,” offers a deep dive into the journey that shaped his legendary career. A Grammy Award-winning music producer whose work has shaped the sound of multiple generations, Charlie opens up about his journey through music, his creative process, and the stories behind his life — and the stories he's chosen to tell in his memoir.  Join us for a conversation that explores artistry, spirituality, identity, and the cost of seeing the world in a different way. You can find Charlie Peacock's latest book, Roots & Rhythm: A Life in Music, wherever books are sold.   === Find the transcript for this episode and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast

Neither you nor your spouse entered marriage as a blank slate. Most married people don't realize the extent to which the past experiences of both you and your spouse, especially trauma, form the foundation of most of the conflict between you. Dr. Carol talks with Dr. Steve Call, clinical psychologist, author, and graduate professor at the Allender Center, about dealing with the roots defining your marriage. Your past stories can become the fruitful ground from which redemption and true intimacy can grow. Find out more about Dr. Steve Call at the Reconnect Institute, on Facebook, or Instagram. Get the book Steve coauthored with Dr. Dan Allender The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight Check out our brand new Sexpectations online course. Discover your pathway to sexual wholeness as you explore your sexual story. Dr. Carol loves to hear from you. You can send a confidential message here.

In this insightful episode, we sit down with renowned psychologist and author Dr. Dan Allender to explore the complexities of anxiety—its roots, its impact, and the path to healing. Drawing on his vast experience and wisdom, Dr. Allender shares transformative insights on understanding anxiety, confronting its emotional and spiritual dimensions, and discovering ways to break free from its grip. Whether you're struggling with anxiety or simply seeking a deeper understanding, this conversation offers valuable tools for navigating life's challenges with courage and hope. Dr. Dan Allender is a renowned author, speaker, and therapist known for his work in the field of trauma, emotional healing, and Christian counseling. As a pioneering figure in the integration of psychology and theology, Dr. Allender has focused much of his research and writing on how individuals can heal from deep emotional wounds and trauma through understanding their story and the redemptive power of God.Dr. Allender founded The Allender Center at The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology, where he trains professionals and offers workshops aimed at helping people understand the impact of their past experiences on their present lives. His work emphasizes the importance of telling one's story, recognizing the ways in which shame, brokenness, and sin affect mental health, and finding freedom and healing through Christ. For more questions and inquiries, reach us at reachus@amcc.org or visit us on our website at nativeexiles.com.

Becky Allender sits down with Rachael Clinton Chen for a one-on-one conversation. Becky reflects on how she and Dan have experienced profound transformation in their marriage, particularly since the Allender Center was founded in 2011. It was during this time that they began practicing the fundamentals of story engagement within their own relationship—a journey that not only changed their lives but also inspired the Marriage offerings at the Allender Center.  No matter what season you're in—whether your relationship is new or you've been married for decades like Dan and Becky—there's always something new to learn. Every step offers a chance to meet one another with greater kindness, compassion, and understanding. Next week, Dan will rejoin the podcast conversation, but today, we hope you enjoy this episode with Becky and Rachael as they share their wisdom and reflections on marriage and connection. Listener Resources: Check out Hidden in Plain Sight by Becky Allender. Read some of Becky Allender's blog posts. Pre-order your copy of The Deep-Rooted Marriage by Dan Allender and Steve Call.  

On this episode: Aaron interviews Mark and Michelle Hollingsworth. Our Guests: Mark and Michelle are trauma trained at the Allender Center and Art of Living Counseling Center in narrative focused healing as marriage counselors. They come from experience, navigating and recovering from an affair. They discuss offloading the burdens of trauma and secrets. Mark and Michelle talk about shame in the ministry, lack of Christian and church support, and navigating people that don't know what to do with the pain. We learn how to bless the process of healing, and that everyone's process is different. They also talk about when and how to share with children. Links:   Soul Reserve 2025 Samson Summit Sponsor: Life Works Counseling   If you have thoughts or questions that you'd like the guys to address in upcoming episodes or suggestions for future guests, please drop a note to piratemonkpodcast@gmail.com.   The music on this podcast is contributed by members of the Samson Society and www.fiftysounds.com. For more information on this ministry, please visit samsonsociety.com.  Support for the women who have been impacted by our choices is available at sarahsociety.com. The Pirate Monk Podcast is provided by Samson Society, a ministry of Samson House, a 501(c)3 nonprofit. To help support the vision, please consider a contribution to Samson House.

You have a story. Your sexuality has a story. Adam Young explains why and how to engage your sexual story: desires and disappointments, arousal, emotions, shame, abuse, and your war with hope. Adam also gives us a preview of the workshop he will lead at The Porn Free Man Conference on "Engaging God About Your Story." This episode is incredible!Adam Young is a therapist who focuses on trauma and abuse, and the host of The Place We Find Ourselves podcast. Adam is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) with a Master's degree in Social Work (Virginia Commonwealth University) and Divinity (Emory University). Adam is the author of Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Story with Kindness Changes Everything. He currently serves as a Fellow and Instructor at The Allender Center. Adam lives in Fort Collins, CO, with his wife and two children. Buy Adam's new book here:Make Sense Of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything (this is a paid link)Learn more at adamyoungcounseling.com~~~You're invited to The Porn Free Man Online Conference!When: Friday, January 10 and Saturday, January 11, 2025Get your free ticket now at thepornfreeman.com~~~Take the Husband Material Journey... Step 1: Listen to this podcast or watch on YouTube Step 2: Join the private Husband Material Community Step 3: Take the free mini-course: How To Outgrow Porn Step 4: Try the all-in-one program: Husband Material Academy Thanks for listening!

With Christmas just around the corner, it's easy to get lost in the comforts of gifts, gatherings, and familiar holiday carols. Yet in today's podcast, Dan and Rachael remind us that the true celebration of Christmas means embracing the profound disruption Jesus brought to the world—a call to love, bless, and challenge the status quo, even in a world often defined by hatred and division. This conversation invites us to see Christmas as more than a season of comfort. It's a time of transformation, calling us to step into the work of love, justice, and restoration. Merry Christmas from all of us here at the Allender Center! We'll take a short break on the podcast next week, and will return on December 27th with a year-end reflection from Dan and Becky Allender.  

Today, Chris and Christina continue to discuss "The Big Six", a podcast episode of Adam Young's The Place We Find Ourselves.In his episode, The Big Six, Adam talks about the way children's brains development based upon the level of care and kindness in the family environment. The "Big Six" are the six things you needed from your parents:AttunementResponsivenessEngagementAbility to Regulate Your AffectAbility to Handle Your Big EmotionsWillingness to Repair HarmShow sponsor: Lori E Kenney CPA Firm. (loriekenney.com)Podcast: The Place We Find Ourselves by Adam Young; The Big Six, Episode 159, airdate July 15, 2024.Adam Young (licensed clinical social worker with a master degree in social work (Virginia Commonwealth University) and Divinity (Emory University), host of podcast The Place We Find Ourselves and Fellow with The Allender Center).

 Spiritual Abuse, Christianity and the Election with Guest HostChristian Nationalism and Spiritual Abuse: A 90 minute workshop with Jenny McGrath (click here to register)w/Danielle S. Castillejo and Jenny McGrathAre you confused about what is going on in the US? Do you feel triggered about past spiritual abuse when you see certain elected officials and faith leaders using harmful rhetoric? Are you wanting understanding and tools to navigate this present moment? You are not alone!  Danielle Castillejo and I have been researching the various tributaries of white supremacy via Christian nationalism and spiritual abuse for years now. We are devastated to see what is playing out post Trump's election, but we are not surprised.In early 2025 Danielle and I will be beginning groups for individuals who are wanting to process, grieve, and learn more about spiritual abuse and it's various intersections with race. For now we are offering an introductory workshop to help individuals feel empowered to know what is going on. This workshop is hybrid- you can join online or in person in Poulsbo, Washington.We will not be giving all of the answers, but we will be giving a framework of “purity culture” and how that has fostered violence based on race, gender, ethnicity, and sexuality since the inception of the US. What is going on right now is not new, but many people are awakening to it for the first time.Stay awake. Come learn with us how we can resist, together. Note: This workshop will be recorded and made available for future purchase. Speaker 1 (00:13):Welcome to the ARise podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, and the church. And tune in and listen to this conversation today. Hey, thanks for joining me today. We've been talking about getting together, I think, in this format on a podcast since before the election, but obviously the election happened. It was a hectic season. I know for me, and I know for you, I want to hear about how that has been as well. But even just as we were kind of saying hello, we're leading in, I could tell like, oh man, shit, there's so many emotions that possibly come up. So we talked about talking about spiritual abuse, the election, and the role of Christianity in that. And for me, it's been so confusing. I grew up a really strict evangelical church. When Fox News appeared on the scene, my dad was watching Fox News and I was watching Fox News, and I've been trying to trace back, did I ever have any dissonance with this?(01:22):And I remember some of the first things when I was a kid, like reading a Time magazine about the election and wondering to myself, why do Christians, the Christians I was with, why do they support Republicans? Why are they against social programs? And then when the Iraq war was going on, it felt very clear to me that SDA Hus saying that they were lying about what was happening in the Middle East. But I didn't understand how all of the Republicans that were kind of pushing this narrative about Iraq, why didn't anybody even ask just simple history majors becauseSpeaker 2 (02:02):It'sSpeaker 1 (02:02):Obvious. So those are kind of some of the origins. I remember kind of questioning my roots and questioning the narrative of say, Fox News. And now I know there's, there's Charlie Kirk, there's all these other podcast out there kind of rebranding Fox News talking points. But I mean, where that intersected with faith for me is just like, well, how do I even talk about a character like Jesus with someone from that old place when I don't really know if we're talking about the same person anymore? In fact, it's fairly clear to me that it's not the same guy. And who's that guy in the Bible? It's been very confusing for me, but I'm just curious, how do you even open up to think about those questions and kind of the topics?Speaker 2 (02:51):Yeah, I mean, I resonate with the confusion and definitely feel that too. And I think it's one of those things where when I try to pull it apart and get some footing on where I'm at and what I think about it, it is hard to know where to start. Even your words about, okay, Fox News came out, my dad's watching this. I'm watching this. I'm a little confused, but also not quite sure what to make of it or how to even approach the dissonance that I'm experiencing. It goes back so far and so in the air water that it feels hard to disentangle. But I mean, I'm with you and feel so much of that same confusion. And I think even being in a red state, very red state, very conservative, very evangelical area, it's almost as if the Jesus and the political views are not for many.(04:09):And I am sure this is not limited to this area, but one of the things I experienced is it's not even, you can't even question, you can't even ask the question, the question of, wait, what's actually happening here? What is someone who actually has a degree in history in Middle Eastern politics? You can't even ask those questions because those questions are a sign that you're doubting or that you've moved to the other side. And so there's such a blindness, and if you go away from us, you're wrong. So much fear. And to pull Jesus apart from that, it very much does feel like a different, we're talking about a different Jesus, which is super disorienting, right? Because we might use the same verses or verses from the same Bible or we celebrate the same holidays, or it feels very disorienting and very confusing.Speaker 1 (05:21):Yeah. I think this idea that Jesus was about love or is something of love, that he was defiant towards religious Pharisees and the people that were persecuting others in the name of religion, it's very interesting then to see one part of my family feel like they're being persecuted and in response to that persecution, they're asking for a king. Or maybe the thing that came to me was the crowd chanting when Jesus was getting ready to be crucified. And the crowd, they're like, the Romans are like, well, who do you want? And they're like, of course we want Barbi. We want the insurrectionist. We want the murderer, the cheater. That's the person we want. Let's kill Jesus. I'm not equating our political figures to Jesus and Barbi, but the idea that we will take even hearkening back to the Old Testament times that we'll take, we need a king, give us a king that somehow the politics, we need politics to save us that Jesus isn't enough anymore. And I don't know when that kind of gets mixed together, the power almost becomes unbearable to fight against, especially if you're on your own.Speaker 2 (06:40):Yeah. Yes. I was actually thinking about this morning how much I think, and I don't know enough about international politics to speak to anything outside of the us, but it feels like our spirituality, especially within the evangelical church in the US, has gotten. So I, I don't know that I would necessarily call myself an evangelical anymore, but that body, which carries a lot of weight, a lot of numbers, a lot of passion in our country, the spirituality has been so fused with politics that it does feel like we need a certain political movement to save us. And I think that could be said on the other side too, in some ways, and I guess in my own, as I've tried to parse out where am I at, where is my spirituality, politics are important, and I feel that we need to vote in line with how we feel, where we find ourselves in terms of our spirituality. And yet Jesus is the rescuer, not a certain political party. And what does that mean? I don't even know how to exist in the midst of where we're at today with that being true, and then it feels so hard to pull apart.Speaker 1 (08:23):Yeah, I mean, for me, I know it hearkens back to so many other places in my life, I've felt powerless against a huge system, or I think specifically in churches where the goal is to has often, well, my experience or the churches that I've been in, the goal has been to preserve the power of a particular pastor or a particular set of pastors and to shield them from any consequences of any ways they might act in the community or individually one-on-one for instance with women. And then I've had the feeling in these circumstances where I just have to take it. I have to take it. I have to move on. I have to accept that God works in this way, that all things work together for good. And that's the same feeling I have right now post-election, that feeling like, okay, this is what's meant to be. This is what God has ordained. You should just take it. And I'm having that similar feeling,Speaker 2 (09:32):Which is not right. That's not, of course, I mean, I'm resonating with what you're saying and feel that deeply, and that is a deep part of my story as well. And of course our bodies go to that. Our bodies are going to go to that story of, okay, this is how we function in the midst of this powerlessness of being within this system or up against this thing that we don't have any, what's a response to it? It feels insurmountable. So yeah, there's so much in me that's like, okay, God's still in control, but even though that feels very familiar in my body, I think as I've done work, and it also doesn't like no, no, something in me is saying, no, no, no, that's not, can't just kind of in a Christian coded scripture, coded way, settle and be okay with what is happening, even though I don't know what to do in a lot of ways, in the midst of that tension, I'm not settled, and I'm not that old pad answer, padded answer of, yeah, God's in control. Everything is going to be okay. Everything works for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose.(11:13):It's not settling me,Speaker 1 (11:16):Right? Because it's not the same scripture if you're white as if you're black or brown or that's true, that scripture means very different things. If you're from white majority power and you say that scripture, you might have the finances and whatnot to deal with coming or the access to education, for instance. But if you're brown, you actually have to give up access to resources that can help your family, like literal, physical, pragmatic resources and be asked to be okay with that for that verse. That's a very different theology than for two sets of people.Speaker 2 (11:53):And it's why as I'm sitting with my clients and the work I do as a therapist, often it is the black and brown clients who are not, they haven't been able to digest this and just move on. It still, it's right here. This is the reality that we're in the middle of, and that is coming, and it is so much easier as a white person to just call on that verse, call on that scriptural ideal because we're not being cost things that those with less privilege are. AndSpeaker 1 (12:44):At the same time, what does it ask you? I can think of some examples for me, but for you in your location, what does this movement ask you to normalize or to make? Okay. Can you name specific things or general things that you can thinkSpeaker 2 (13:03):The movement of the election outcome and what's coming? What's happening?Speaker 3 (13:08):Yeah,Speaker 2 (13:15):That's a great question. I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is just kind of going back to this concept that it's really hard to put words to, let me think for a second. So I think going back to answer this is exposing, right? Because it forces me to go back to the comfortable way that I used to view the world. I do think that that is having grown up in a hyper conservative evangelical world that's very red. There were certain ways that I had to tamp down any dissonance that I felt and being super faith oriented that often included a faith perspective. And so, yeah, I think some of the concepts or the ideas that I don't adhere to anymore, and that I was, Danielle, this is so hard to put words to this idea that there's I privilege and suffering. That sounds so gross, but I think there's so many mental gymnastics, even if I'm trying to articulate it, it's really hard because I might look at somebody less privileged than me in those days and think, well, they've got to work harder, but that's part of what they're being gifted. But at the same time, I would say that and hold that while being, not viewing myself that same way because I didn't, wasn't experiencing that lack of privilege that would've required me to work harder, to move forward, to be empowered, to change my outcome. So I don't know that I'm putting good words to what I'm feeling and thinking, butSpeaker 1 (16:14):I think I'm even thinking of, of how it's asked me to normalize that women don't need consent even for sex. It's not only that this was normalized through the president, but it was normalized through, it's been further reinforced through his cabinet picks. And this idea that it almost feels like to me, and I don't know if this is what it's intended to do, but the impact it's having on me is like, look at all the perpetrators I can nominate. And there's no consequence for that. This is okay, people are still shouting, this is God's will. This is God's will.Speaker 3 (17:07):Yeah.Speaker 2 (17:13):Yeah. I mean, as you're naming that, I can see your activation and I feel it too, right? It's going back to that and incredible powerlessness.Speaker 1 (17:39):And then the idea that somehow believing in Jesus is you can believe in Jesus and someone who commits rape or I sexual assault or abuse or human trafficking, that is a get out of jail free card. They can still be the leader. They can still be in charge, which from my experience is the truth in churches.Speaker 2 (18:12):It brings up the question in me, what are we doing? What is happening internally for us to make those jumps? And when I say us, I mean the people that would, and I years ago would've found myself in that camp, what was happening internally that could be so blatantly shown, and yet I'm going to put all my eggs in that basket regardless, because somehow that still can align with a mission of love and care and welcome and hope. I find the psychological mechanism there, which is rooted in a lot of what we know, white supremacy, patriarch, we know some of that, but just that the dissonance that has to be either just cut off from consciousness or somehow jumped over it is really interesting to me.Speaker 1 (19:26):Can you speak to that from a psychological standpoint, maybe in general terms, when you're in an abusive situation, what is that process like? Because what we're kind of describing, right?Speaker 2 (19:37):Yeah. It's so true. Yeah. Well, I mean, if in a harmful relationship and I'm under threat, and that threat can look a lot of different ways. It could be a sense of physical harm, emotional harm, sexual harm, spiritual harm, whatever that threat level is, it's going to activate nervous system responses in me that are good and are there to try to keep me safe. But that might include the typical fight flight, or it could include freeze or fawn, which all again, are good responses that our brain goes to try to keep us safe, but it requires certain parts of our brain to activate and other parts of our brain to not have quite so much energy put toward them. So my ability to think clearly and logically about what's happening is going to be much lower if I'm in a harmful situation, especially if this is repeated and we're talking about a relationship, this relationship not only includes harm, but also includes something good, which most harmful abusive relationships do. So yeah, psychologically, we're just not functioning on all levels if there's a threat of harm.(21:12):So I guess to your point, some of, and maybe not much of what is happening and people who I think truly, I don't know, I want to say that there are people who truly value the teachings of Jesus and want their life to be about him, and yet our things aren't functioning the way they should, not thinking clearly about what's happening. And they're such a dissociated kind of numbness too, which I think is a response that comes when we're being threatened. But I also think that then there is a commitment to it, a commitment to look away, a commitment to, in our privilege, just turn away from what we might in moments of safety, have questions about or see issues with. We can just, oh, I'll just look the other way. So I don't know if that gets at what you were asking, but feels multifaceted. It feels like there's kind of the response part, but then there's also a decision made.Speaker 1 (22:43):I think about that when we're in a position where we don't have power to make the choice we need to get out of it. Say we're a child and we're with an adult or in a job and maybe we need the job for money and we have an abusive employer, or maybe we're in a church system and we are under a threat of losing community or maybe access to work or resources. That pattern, I think of where you have to attach, maintain contact with the person that can hurt you to access some of those good things we're talking about. And at the same time, you have to detach in one of the ways you're talking about. You go into that learned trauma response from the harm that's also coming at you. So you almost have to split that off from the good things like the good and the bad things get split. If that happens over a long period of time, you become accustomed to doing that with maybe certain types of harm, for instance. And so I think about it, even in our bodies, some people drink scalding hot water or scalding hot cotton. Not saying it's wrong, but over time, your taste buds get numbed to that. You can numb out those initial burn sensations.(24:01):And so I think of that when I think of spiritual abuse or when our politics gets mixed up with normalizing, misogynistic and sexually abusive behaviors when we're elevating people that engage in these kinds of harms and saying, well, that's going to be okay for them, actually, let's give them more power. That's way if those are systems you're coming out of where abuse has been normalized or you've been told like, Hey, just follow, don't pay attention to your senses or your gut or your body, then by the time it gets here, you're going to be asking a lot less questions. You're not going to have the warning signals maybe going off. Yeah,Speaker 2 (24:45):Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. And even going back to when you were naming what's Asked, what you're being asked to normalize that women don't get to have consent for sex or they can be mistreated and sexually harmed, and it doesn't really matter, even as you were naming that, I could feel in me that learned trauma response is still there in some ways of when I see these reports of cabinet members and all the stuff that's coming out that people are saying, there's still something in me that's just like, oh, yeah, of course. No big deal. That doesn't stick. And that is not where I end, but there is an initial response in me that is not surprised, that even thinks Well, of course. And it's not a position of That's okay. Yeah, it's really interesting. It's hard to put words to, but it is not as alarming as it should be at times.Speaker 1 (26:03):I think it's good to talk it out, even though it finds both of us without words, because how often are we able to have a conversation like this where we actually be wordless and someone can just talk with us?Speaker 3 (26:16):That's true.Speaker 1 (26:17):Majority of our lives, we have to spend working or taking care of others or surviving making food. I think that's probably why I wanted to just have a conversation like this, because it's not like it's just going to free flow. We're talking about statistics in a sport. It's not the same thing.Speaker 2 (26:35):Yeah, it's very true. And every piece is so interwoven, I think, for me, with my own story and things on a personal level, and then moving out the systemic levels of family and church and then bigger systems. So it does feel hard to put words to, but it is really, I think it is very worthwhile to stumble around and try to find words.Speaker 1 (27:14):Yeah, I mean, you and me we're not experts.Speaker 2 (27:17):No, nope.Speaker 1 (27:22):I was so glad you said personal story because there were things I thought like, oh, this is resolved. I am cool with this. And then it was the day after the election, and I found myself sitting in silence for just a long periods of time about anything to say. I didn't really have a clear thought, likeSpeaker 2 (27:41):A hundred percent. I mean, I think even, I haven't had a ton of conversations about it, honestly. I've kind of sat with folks as they've processed, but I have not taken a lot of space to process. And I think for at least a good week, I didn't have, there was really no way to put words to what my inner experience was. There was a lot of tears and a lot of silence and a lot of dread. But just this feeling of, if I even try to put words, I don't have words for this right now. And yeah,Speaker 1 (28:29):I think that's So partly is the, so insidiousness of spirituality that relies on power to be enforced is that it can tap into all those other tender places in us.Speaker 2 (28:55):Yeah. I mean, yes, it just feels like such a bind and so hard to locate. I think for me, I've got my own spiritual stuff like shifting and have been processing stories of spiritual harm, and I'm still in the midst of that. So that was already there, and then you add this layer on top of that, and it just feels really hard to even have the comforting personal spirituality to anchor to in the midst of all this powerlessness and not comforting in a numbed out split off way of everything's going to be fine, but I can anchor to a creator. I can anchor to a savior. I can anchor to something bigger than me that feels even hard to access.Speaker 1 (30:06):I was thinking about that. I was on Instagram and my family follows some hyper conservative podcasters. So I was watching, I look at that just to get an idea, what are other people thinking? And they were glory to God and Jesus answer by prayer. And I was wondering back in Nazi Germany who voted for Hitler and who had those same prayers and who had those same answers or colonists that came to the United States and raped and murdered and pillaged, and they felt like, oh, wow. God did this for me. I just felt like, wow. We literally think nothing alike. Yeah,Speaker 2 (30:55):And it's hard when you've got folks like that in your family. What commonality are we even standing on anymore? And maybe there's not any,Speaker 1 (31:12):I like to think that the commonality, I tell myself the commonality is that we both believe we're human and the humanity is shared between us, but I'm always not so sure about that if I believe we're both human. Do you actually believe that? I'm unsure,Speaker 2 (31:30):Right? Well, yeah, because I think that belief in our humanity has to require that, that we believe in another's humanity, right? That the dignity of another, and that feels far away. I am not sure how much access people, yeah, it's hard. I don't know the right words to use there, but I don't know how common that is right now.Speaker 1 (32:12):What do you do to find grounding for yourself or to comfort maybe in general or if you have any specifics?Speaker 2 (32:22):That's a good question. I think it's hard right now. I think I'm noticing how I am noticing the lack of grounding. I'm noticing how hard it is to be still, how hard it is to just relax, how hard it is to sit in silence, how hard it is not to grab my phone or eat or those are the things right now, that quick comfort, dopamine boost that I'm turning to. I think it is really, I don't think right now I've figured it out. I mean, I try to move my body every day. I think that is not stillness, but that is a grounded moment for me. And I think when I noticed, honestly in these days, for me, when the emotion has space to come up, letting it come up and not having all the words for it, but being in touch with my tears and in touch with the feeling of powerlessness feels grounded.Speaker 1 (33:44):So the feeling of powerlessness, being in touch with that feels grounding to you?Speaker 2 (33:49):Yeah.Speaker 1 (33:50):Can you say any more about that?Speaker 2 (33:53):Well, it feels real, right? It feels real. It feels real. It feels like in that moment, I'm not trying to numb it. I'm not trying to escape it. I'm not trying. I'm in a complex of like, oh, I can fix this somehow. And I think knowing that, even in those moments, I mean, those are very solitary moments for me. There's not a communal, that's not communal experience for me. But I think in those moments, there is something in me that knows I'm not the only one that's feeling that, and that feels grounding. I think what I've encouraged my clients to do who are reckoning with the fear terror, really disappointed feelings, all that they're coming out of the election with, I've encouraged them. Do you have folks who feel the same that you can just be with in this moment? Can we have community in the powerlessness? Not to stay there, but I do think our humanity has, for those of us who believe in the dignity, us and others around us as humans, we've taken a toll. Our bodies have taken a toll through this, and we need to know that in the midst of this powerlessness, we're not the only ones feeling it, that it feels like a moment of we've got to have other people around us to keep moving and respond, however that looks.(35:41):How about you?Speaker 1 (35:46):I think for me, every morning, just very, it might seem little, but every morning I've been going to the waterfront out here and taking pictures of the same scene, just, I can't even call it a sunrise because pre 7:00 AM it's like dark, dark, dark here in the winter, like dark, dark, dark at 4:00 PM I know it sounds silly, but I've been doing it. It just feels good. Just like, what does that look like? What does it like for me? What do I notice? It always seems to shift a tiny bit, and I like that. Otherwise, I'll text a friend or say, my day is shit, or This really good thing happened. I don't need anybody to make anything better for me because they really can't. But I just want someone to know so I'm not alone.Speaker 3 (36:32):Yeah.Speaker 2 (36:35):Yeah. Good. I like the thought of anchoring to nature, and there's something, I think for me, in the tender places of my own spirituality, being in nature, I can feel the closest to that, the closest to God, the closest to something of hope, something of, and I hope that's real, or at least I hope that it's real. I hope that it's real. You know what I mean? I hope that's not cheap. I like that.Speaker 1 (37:24):I like how you don't have to prove it, man. I hope that's it.Speaker 3 (37:29):Yeah.Speaker 1 (37:32):It feels like the opposite of that's been what's happening to us. Someone's trying to prove it to us.Speaker 2 (37:42):Yeah. How have you handled for you, what have you noticed in terms of taking in news updates? Do you keep yourself pretty open and pretty constantly accessing those things, or have you noticed the need to pause? How's that played out for you?Speaker 1 (38:03):Yeah. Over the weekend, I took a break. It just kind of thought about fun and good things, and I saw a lot of news stories flash across that I was interested in, but I was like, man, I'm not going to read that. That's not going to feel good. But prior to the election, I felt like I remember having this feeling in the last presidency of Trump that every day something bad happened or that every day something happened that I didn't know what to expect. And I think once he's in office, just let the bad things happen so I can know what it is. But right now, I don't know. And there's a lot of talking, but we don't know what's going to happen. So I'm trying to stay a little bit less engaged now because I am trying to stay informed on the things I need to stay informed on, but less engaged in that way. What about you?Speaker 2 (39:01):Yeah. It is funny, as you mentioned that his last presidency, what you felt, I remember feeling a palpable sense of relief when Biden came into office because it was like, I think I felt the same thing you felt without putting those words around it. It was just this constant, every day there was something else. Every day there was some shock or ugh. So whether that was realistic or not, I felt relief when he wasn't in office anymore, which took some time. But yeah, I feel that tension too of, well, I want to be informed, but also there is a lot of unknown. There is a lot of kind of talk that's not able to come into fruition yet, and it feels like, for me, it drives my anxiety, it drives my dread. So holding that tension of being informed, but not staying so connected to all the possibilities that I'm unwell and not able to do my job or love my kids or those things. Yeah.Speaker 1 (40:17):Yeah. Right.Speaker 2 (40:20):Yeah. I mean, there's so much weight. I think as we're just in our conversation, there's so much weight in my body, so much weight in my stomach, so much tightness in my throat. It's such a, there's so much dread,Speaker 3 (40:40):Right?Speaker 1 (40:42):Yeah. And I think that's, that's the thing that's different that I think it's good for us to keep naming. This isn't like PTSD where the trauma happened and it's in the past. This is an ongoing thing that hasn't stopped yet. So I think at the same time, it's ongoing. We'll often have these traumatic symptoms that we might call PTSD, but for us to expect ourselves or you or I expect someone else to just be over it, I don't think that's necessarily fair.Speaker 2 (41:22):Yeah. And I think in the midst of that, trying to be kind with ourselves and gentle, acknowledging what we are in the midst of and tending to our bodies and giving ourselves a pass and moments when we need to eat a good meal and just talk about whatever it is with a friend or with our families holding onto our humanity and our dignity in that way too. Those really important.Speaker 1 (42:07):Well, are there any final thoughts you want to leave folks with? I mean, I know we can't wrap this up. I know we'll likely have more conversations, but this is kind of our opening. Any final thoughts?Speaker 2 (42:23):I mean, I think just that encouragement, speaking to myself too, of being kind, being kind to ourselves, but also to other people. Not being okay with injustice, but remembering the humanity and even, I don't know, it feels hard to do, but remembering somebody's humanity, even if they're not honoring mine, the kind of person I want to be. That's hard. But I do think that that feels really important.Speaker 1 (43:09):That feels good. I think for me, I try to, like I said, find some grounding in myself and then find some folks that I can just be myself with, even just one person for the day that I can express one real emotion with one real thought, even if it's joy or happiness, but someone I know that will celebrate that with me. Or if I'm sad, someone I know I can actually cry with or just tell it, like say I'm sad today. Yeah.Speaker 3 (43:44):Yeah.Speaker 1 (43:46):Well, thank you for joining me. So good to be here on Monday, December 9th, just a week from now, Jenny McGrath of Indwell Counseling, and I link is in the notes, are going to be doing a little workshop, like one-off thing on Christian nationalism and spiritual abuse. If you're confused about what's going on in the us you feel triggered about past spiritual abuse, when you see certain elected officials and faith officials using harmful rhetoric, or are you wanting to understanding and tools to navigate this present moment, you're not alone. As you heard in our conversation. It can be very difficult. And so we just decided, hey, we'd offer this little workshop, talk a little bit about it. And then in early 2025, Jenny and I are going to be getting some groups for individuals who want to process and grieve and learn more about spiritual abuse and its various intersections with race. This is not new work for Jenny and I. We've been having this conversation for many years now, and we're also not experts. We're not here to solve all the problems or be the only resource for you, but you're invited to join. If cost is a problem, please reach out. We'll see what we can do.    Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

Today, Chris and Christina discuss a recent podcast hosted by Adam Young (licensed clinical social worker with a master degree in social work (Virginia Commonwealth University) and Divinity (Emory University), host of podcast The Place We Find Ourselves and Fellow with The Allender Center).In his episode, The Big Six, Adam talks about the way children's brains development based upon the level of care and kindness in the family environment. The "Big Six" are the six things you needed from your parents:AttunementResponsivenessEngagementAbility to Regulate Your AffectAbility to Handle Your Big EmotionsWillingness to Repair HarmPart one will focus on the first three of the "Big Six". Chris and Christina will define and give examples of each one.Show sponsor: Lori E Kenney CPA Firm. (loriekenney.com)Podcast: The Place We Find Ourselves by Adam Young; The Big Six, Episode 159, airdate July 15, 2024.

When confronting spiritual abuse, it can feel more straightforward to focus on a specific person or leader who may have caused harm. But it's also important to address the systems and cultural contexts that, in their most obvious forms, promote abuse—and in their more subtle forms, allow it to happen or refuse to confront it. In this episode, Dan and Rachael dive into the painful realities of spiritual abuse and the systems that uphold it. They explore how cultural powers—such as patriarchy, white supremacy, capitalism, and purity culture—often intertwine with Christian theology, creating harmful environments that distort our understanding of God and faith. And yet, even in the face of this, there is a call to confront our complicity in these systems with grace and humility.  We hope this conversation is an invitation to wrestle with and address how we've been shaped by harmful cultures and systems and how we may have participated in them – and ultimately, to consider how we can step into a more loving, just, and merciful understanding of God and community. === We invite you to explore the brand-new Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course from the Allender Center. This 6-lesson course, complete with reflective practices and deep dive panel discussions, helps you engage your body, mind, and spirit as you unpack the harm caused by spiritual abuse. Whether you're just beginning to wake up to this reality or have been on a healing journey for years, this course provides a safe and welcoming space to deepen your understanding and work towards healing. Learn more and enroll today at: theallendercenter.org/online-courses

Trigger Warning: Proceed only if you are comfortable with potentially sensitive topics.This is not psychological advice, service, or prescriptive treatment for anxiety or depression. The content related to descriptions of depression, anxiety, or despair may be upsetting or triggering, but are clearly not exhaustive. If you should feel symptoms of depression and/or anxiety, please seek professional mental health services, or contact (in Kitsap County) Kitsap Mobile Crisis Team at  1-888-910-0416. The line is staffed by professionals who are trained to determine the level of crisis services needed. Depending on the need, this may include dispatching the KMHS Mobile Crisis Outreach Team for emergency assessment. In the Words and Voice of Rebecca W. Walston:Anticipatory intelligence  is a phrase that I heard at a seminar talking about racial trauma. The speaker whose name I can't remember, was talking about this idea of a kind of intelligence that is often developed by marginalized people. And because this was a seminar on racial trauma in the United States, her examples were all primarily around racialized experiences as the United States understand that sense of racialized society. And so the idea of anticipatory intelligence is the amount of effort or energy that we put in emotionally, mentally, psychologically, to anticipating how our bodies and the stories that they represent will be received in a space that we are in before we get there.Speaker 1 (00:18):Welcome to the Arise podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, and spirituality. In this episode, I get to interview my dear friend, Rebecca Wheeler Walston, and we are talking about anticipatory intelligence. I think all of us, or at least most of the people I speak with lately when I'm like, how are you doing? They're like, and they're like, well, that's a complicated answer. And it definitely is. There's an underlying sense of unease, of discontent, of just a lack of surety, about what is going to come next in the new year that I think I haven't felt for a long time. The collective sense that I have right now as you listen to this episode and take a sneak peek into some of the conversations Rebecca and I have had for a while, I encourage you to be kind to your body Again. I've put in previous episodes, resources, get out, get mental health care, spend time with friends, play, go play pickleball, get out in the snow, read a good book, text a friend, call a friend.(01:37):Do the things that connect you back to life giving activities. Find your spiritual practices, light candles, take a bath. All these things that therapists often say are helpful. I mean, maybe it's you go hug a tree or put your feet, your literal bare feet in the dirt. I don't know what it is for you, but leaning on the people and the resources in your area and also leaning on things that connect you back to groundedness, to feeling in your body. And so those are the things that I do. I enjoy lately eating Honey Nut Cheerios. Sounds weird. I love Dry Honey Nut Cheerios. I don't know why, but I let myself indulge in that. So again, I'm not prescribing anything to anyone. This is not a prescription, a diagnosis, a treatment plan. It is saying, how can you find ways to ground yourself in really good healthy ways that you can actually care for your good body?(02:50):I don't enjoy talking about anxiety. I don't love it. In fact, talking about it sometimes I feel really anxious in the moment my heart starts pounding, I get sweaty hands, et cetera. And yet there is something grounding for me about stepping into shared realities with my friends or neighbor, colleague or family. And so this is a reality that Rebecca and I have been talking about. What is anticipatory intelligence? And I'm going to let her jump in and start it off here. Hey, Rebecca, I know you and I chat a lot, and part of our talks are like, Hey, how you doing? Hey, how am I doing? And a while back when I reached out to you and said, Hey, let's do this thing way before the election on anxiety and race. And you're like, wait a minute. I want to talk about this thing called anticipatory intelligence. And so I want to hear about that from you. What is that?Speaker 2 (03:51):Hey, Danielle, as always, Hey, hey,(03:56):Post 2024 election, I'm going to just take a huge breath and say that I've had this low grade sort of nausea in my gut for at least a week, if not longer. So yeah, let's talk. So anticipatory intelligence is a phrase that I heard at a seminar talking about racial trauma. The speaker whose name I can't remember, was talking about this idea of a kind of intelligence that is often developed by marginalized people. And because this was a seminar on racial trauma in the United States, her examples were all primarily around racialized experiences as the United States understand that sense of racialized society. And so the idea of anticipatory intelligence is the amount of effort or energy that we put in emotionally, mentally, psychologically, to anticipating how our bodies and the stories that they represent will be received in a space that we are in before we get there.(05:23):So it's that notion of I'm a black woman, I'm getting ready to go to a function that I anticipate will likely be predominantly white. And the kind of internal conversation I have with myself about what that's going to feel like look like to enter the question in my mind of how safe or how dangerous might the environment be to me racially? So the first piece of anticipatory intelligence is that sort of internal conversation that we may be having with ourselves as we step into a circumstance. The second piece of that is when we arrive in the space and we start to read the room,(06:12):Read the faces of the people in the room, and this work of how close was my hypothesis or my theory about my reception in the room to what I'm actually seeing and feeling and hearing in the room as I enter the space is that sort of second piece of anticipatory intelligence. And then the third piece of it is really this question of how do I navigate that answers to those first two questions? And so what is my body, my brain, my emotions, my spirit, my gut, all of it doing with what I'm reading of the faces in the room and the reaction to me being there could be a positive space. I could get there and realize that the people in the room are all receptive to my presence and what I'm reading and feeling is a sense of welcome and warmth and an invitation for all of me to be in the room. And then what does that feel like in terms of the letdown of anxiety and the ability to absorb that sense of welcome and to participate in that sense of welcome? Or it could be a hostile environment. And what I'm reading is something that isn't welcome,(07:44):Something that feels like fill in the blank, resentment, who knows?(07:53):And then what does my body do with that? What does my gut do with that? What does my emotions, what does my spirit do? And how do I react and respond to what I'm actually reading in the room? So you can hear that sense of three steps, and sometimes that can happen over a matter of days, weeks as we build up to something. Sometimes that can happen in a matter of seconds as we enter a room, but the amount of effort and energy that is expended and the idea that you can actually develop a very well thought through grid for this as a kind of intelligence that can be yours individually might belong to your group. Collectively idea of how we anticipate and then how we engage a space based on and in this race, it could be extended to gender,Speaker 3 (08:58):ReligionSpeaker 2 (09:00):In this day and age, probably politics and any other places where we find intersectionality of the pieces of our identity.Speaker 1 (09:11):I had to take a deep breath because it is this giant reframing and pathologizing of what a lot of us walk around with, which is an internal disruption as we move from space to space.Speaker 2 (09:29):Yeah, I think that's true. And I mean, I think about it as a black woman, as a black mother raising two kids, I have taught my kids this notion of, I didn't call it that there's too many syllables and SAT words, but I have taught my kids a sense of pay attention to people and places and sounds and vibes and nonverbal communication and verbal communication and learn to interpret and decipher and then do what is necessary to keep yourself safe and do what is necessary to enjoy and participate in places where you're actually welcome.Speaker 1 (10:17):When that intersects with the concepts of Western psychology, let's say, where we're as a part of that system, there's this constant move to how do we heal anxiety, how do we work towards calm? How do we work towards finding a quote safe space? And I think it's becoming more and more evident in our current society. It's evident to many before, but I think some people are jostled into the reality that there might not be that safe space or you might have to understand anxiety differently than the western psychological framework. Have you thought about that?Speaker 2 (11:04):Yeah. I mean, couple of things, right? Is that in western sort of psychological space, the phrase that's usually engaged is something called hypervigilant. This idea that the time you spend reading a room and your sense of threat and the need to be vigilant about your own safety, the concept of hypervigilance is to say that you're overreactingSpeaker 3 (11:36):ToSpeaker 2 (11:37):The space and you have a kind of vigilance that is unnecessary. You have a kind of vigilance that is a trigger to some threat that doesn't actually exist. And therefore you as the person who is doing this anticipatory work, needs to rea acclimate to the room and engage the room as if you are safe and to reimagine or recalibrate your sense of threat to an idea that it doesn't exist and it's not there. And one of the things that I would pose is that's a false reality for marginalized people in the United States. The sense of a lack of safety is present and it's real. And therefore, could we be talking about a necessary kind of vigilance as opposed to an over reactive hypervigilance?(12:45):So that's kind of one way that I think is a necessary exploration, and it requires the country to wrestle with the truth and the why and how of the lack of safety for marginalized people, whether that is on racial lines or gender lines or whatever power structure we are engaging. There's always the question of those in power and those who are not. And if in that moment you are in the category of the disempowered and the disenfranchised, then a sense of your own vigilance might actually be the wisest, kindest thing you can do. And the error of modern psychology to pathologize that is the problem. The other thing that I think about because you use the word safety, and I did too often, and of the growing belief that the idea that I can be safe in an absolute sense is probably a misnomer at best, an illusion at worst. And so there can there be this sense of safer environments or safe ish environments or even the suggestion that I've heard in recent years of a sense of bravery instead of safety, the ability for the space, the room to hold, the idea that if there's a power differential, there's going to be a safety differential.(14:31):And so the question is not am I safe? The question is the level of courage or bravery that I may need to access in order to step into a room and note that there is a certain amount of of safety.Speaker 1 (14:50):And I think that can be played out on all levels. I mean, I attended a training on immigrant rights and one of the things they mentioned is that ICE has the ability, the immigration service has the ability to use a digital format on online form to write their own warrant. Now, we know that regular police cannot write their own warrant.(15:16):We know that ice can also obtain a warrant through the courts, but when you have an empowered police body to write their own warrant, even if you're not in an immigrant, what is a sense that you're going to actually be safe or you're going to walk into a room where there are those power differentials no matter what your race or ethnicity is. If you are not of the dominant class, what's the sense that you're going to feel safe in that power differential? I think as I hear you say, I don't want to go to the extreme that it's an illusion, but I do agree that each step out is a step of bravery. And some days we may have the bravery and the data points that say, despite this anticipation of potential harm, I'm going to be able to work through that today and I'm going to be with people who can work through that with me, even through the power differential. And I think in the coming days, and there's going to be times when we say I can't step into that space because of what I anticipate, not because I'm a coward, but because it may lead to more harm than I can metabolize.Speaker 2 (16:27):Yeah, I mean the word safe has its problem. So does the word brave, right? Because again, the weight of that word is on the marginalized person in many ways to push path, the power differential and show up anyway. And there's something about that weight and the imbalance of it that feels wildly unfair, but historically true.(17:00):And so what I love about your sense of there might be some days I do not have it in me, and then can we come to that moment with the reverence and the kindness and the sanctity that deserves for me and my individual capacity to say I don't have it today? And I say that knowing that most of us come from, I come from a cultural backdrop, a collective story around blackness and the black bravery and black courage and black power and black rights. That doesn't always give me space to say I don't have it in me. I don't have that bravery today. I don't have access to it. I come from a cultural narrative that screams we shall overcome in a thousand different ways. And so you can hear in that both a hope and then a demand that you find the capacity in every moment to overcome. And we don't have a lot of stories where you get to say, I don't have it. And I have some curiosity for you as a Latino woman, do you have those stories, those cultural narratives that give you permission to say, I don't have access to the kind of bravery that I need for today?Speaker 1 (18:40):That's a really good question. As you were speaking, I was thinking of the complexity of the constructed racial identity for Latinos, which is often a combination as you know, we've talked about it, a lot of indigenous African and then European ancestry. And so I often think of us coming into those spaces as negotiators. How do we make this okay for dominant culture folks? Can we get close enough to power to make it okay? Which is a costly selling out of one part of ourselves. And I think the narrative is like when you hear nationally, why do Latinos vote this way even though the electoral percentage is so low compared to dominant culture folks? So I think the question we have to wrestle with is what part of our identity are we going to push aside to fit in those spaces? Or sometimes the role of negotiator and access to privilege can lead to healing and good things.(19:53):And also there are spaces where we step into where that's not even on the table. It's going to be an option. And so can we step back and not have to be that designated person and say, actually, I can't do any negotiations. I don't have the power to do that. It's kind of a false invitation. It's this false sense of you can kind of belong if you do this, but you can't really belong. I want you to vote for me, but then in 30 days, 60 days, I'm going to deport you at risk to be arrested. So you have to vote against your own best interest in order to be accepted, but after being accepted, you're also rejected. So I think there's a sense for me as I ramble through it, I don't know where that permission comes from to step back, but I think we do need to take a long hard look and step backSpeaker 2 (20:57):Just listening to you. I have a sense that the invitation to your community is a little different than the invitation that has been extended to my community. And of course the extension of that invitation coming from the power structures of the western world of America, of whiteness. I hear you saying that if I'm mishearing you, let's chat. But what I hear is the sense of this notion that you can negotiate for acceptance, which I think is an invitation that has been extended to a lot of ethnic groups in the United States that do not include black people. Our history in the United States is the notion of one drop of black blood lands you in this category for which there will never be access. And I say that also knowing that part of the excitement of a candidacy of someone like Kamala Harris is the notion that somehow we have negotiated something or the possibility that we actually have negotiated a kind of acceptance that is beyond imagination. And in the days following the election, some of the conversation of literally she did everything that she has, all the degrees, she has the resume, she has this, she has that, and it wasn't enough to negotiate the deal(22:53):And the kind of betrayal. And so I started this by saying, oh no, y'all over there in Latinx spaces get to negotiate something we as black people. But I think that there's a true narrative in post civil rights post brown versus board of education that the negotiation that we are in as black people is if we get the degrees and we build the pedigree, we can earn the negotiated seat. And I think other ethnic spaces, and you tell me if this feels true to you, the negotiation has been about bloodline.Speaker 1 (23:50):Yeah, absolutely. And adjacent to that negotiated space is the idea that you wouldn't have to anticipate so much that you could walk in and feel safe or that no matter where you think about any of the presidential spaces, that Kamala Harris could walk in and she could be acceptedSpeaker 2 (24:15):And that she would bring all the rest of us with her. Yeah.Speaker 1 (24:29):I wanted to believe that this election was based on issues. And I wanted to believe that no matter where you stood on certain things that you could see through that Trump was going to be a deadly disaster for bodies of color. And yet that's not what happened.Speaker 2 (24:55):Yeah, I think, right. And my first pushback is like, he's a problem. He's a disaster not just for bodies of color. And I think there was some segment of the country making the argument that he is a detriment to a kind of ideal that affects us all regardless of race or creed or color or gender. And I am still trying to make meaning of what it means that that's not the choice we made as a country. I'm still trying to, in my head, logically balance how you could vote against your own interests. And I was watching a documentary this weekend, the US and the Holocaust, and one of the things that is true in that documentary is the fact that there has always been a strain of American life that voted against its own interest. That notion is not new. And if I try to think about that in psychological terms, I mean, how often have you seen that as a therapist, a client who makes decisions that are clearly against their own interest? And the therapeutic work is to get to a place where that is less and less true,Speaker 1 (26:38):Which I mean, I know we'll record a part two, I think of the collective meaning we are making out of this, that the sense that in the voting against our own self-interest, I can speak from my cultural background, you may say goodbye to your grandma or your brother. You may say goodbye to the friend down the street that runs a restaurant. And what does that do to your psyche? It's nothing new. We've been asked to do that for centuries. This is not new. This was introduced when colonial powers first arrived and we're asking for loyalty in exchange for some kind of a false hope of true safety. And yet when we experience this anxiety or this anticipatory intelligence, I think our bodies aren't just speaking from what's happening today, but the centuries of this was never, okay.Speaker 2 (27:48):See, again, I'm hit with that sentence reads different to me when I hear you as a Latino woman say, that's not a new negotiation for us. We've been asked to vote against our own interest from colonial days. And what does that cost you? I want to cry for that story of an immigration that sounded like it was voluntary and never actually was. And I say that feeling in my own experience, the trajectory of enslaved Africans were asked to negotiate something very different than that. What is the cost? It'll be a different kind of cost. There is a section of the black community that voted against our own interest in this election, and what does that mean and what's the story that we're telling ourselves around it in order to justify a choice? The consequences of which I think have yet to be made clear for any of us. I know that there's this anticipated, we can say the word mass deportation and think that we can anticipate the cost of that. And just from the few conversations you and I have had over the last week, I don't think any of our anticipatory work will be anywhere close to the actual cop.Speaker 1 (30:11):I think you're right. I think we will do our best based on what we've lived and tried to do for one another and for our own families to anticipate what we need, but we won't escape.Speaker 2 (30:38):I think the other thing that I think about is the cost is not just to Latinx people. There is a cost to all of us that are in proximity to you that is different and arguably far less. But I think we're missing that too. I think we're underestimating and miscalculating. There's a science fiction book that was written, I read it in college by the author's name is a guy named Derek Bell. He's a lawyer, and he wrote a book called Faces at the Bottom of the Well. And there's a chapter in the book's, a collection of short stories. There's a short story about the day all the Negroes disappeared. And the story is about this alien population from another planet who is disenchanted with the treatment of enslaved Africans. So they come to earth and they take everybody black. And the story is about what is no longer true of the planet because Africans are no longer enslaved. Africans in the US are no longer in it, on it. And all the things that are no longer true of American life, the things that will never become true of American life because of the absence of a people group. And I think that, again, we can say the phrase mass deportation and think we have some sense of what the cost of that might be. And I think we are grossly underestimating and miscalculating all the things that will not be true of American life.Speaker 1 (32:33):Yeah, I think I don't have words. I don't have a lot of explanations or what our kids will, what they're learning about life. I know we have to pause. Okay. Okay.Speaker 2 (33:09):Part two, to comeSpeaker 1 (33:10):Our cucumber. I'll catch you later. As you can see, we ended this podcast on a difficult note, and it's not a space that Rebecca and I are going to be able to resolve, and we are going to continue talking about it. So tune in to our next episode in part two. And I really think there's a lot of encouragement to be found in setting a frame and setting space for reality and what we are facing in our bodies and understanding ourselves and understanding as collectives, how this might be impacting us differently. Rebecca and I aren't speaking for everybody in our communities. They're not monoliths. We are speaking from our particular locations. Again, thank you for tuning in and I encourage you to download, share, subscribe, and share with others that that might be researching or thinking about this topic. Talk to you later. Bye.  Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

Abuse of any kind involves a setup and a breach of trust – and spiritual abuse is no exception.  Whether it stems from personal relationships or institutional settings, spiritual abuse can deeply disrupt our sense of attachment and connection, leaving lasting wounds. These wounds may have their roots in early developmental trauma, making spiritual abuse feel like an echo of past harm. It's not just about the betrayal of spiritual abuse in the more recent past—whether during teen years, college experiences, or adulthood—but about understanding how our earliest experiences have shaped our ability to trust and heal. === We invite you to explore the brand-new Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course from the Allender Center. This 6-lesson course, complete with reflective practices and deep dive panel discussions, helps you engage your body, mind, and spirit as you unpack the harm caused by spiritual abuse. Whether you're just beginning to wake up to this reality or have been on a healing journey for years, this course provides a safe and welcoming space to deepen your understanding and work towards healing. Learn more and enroll today at: theallendercenter.org/online-courses

In this episode, we invite you to take a deep breath and find some grounding through the power of poetry. Whether you're navigating stress or simply feeling a bit unsteady, poetry — reading it, writing it, or even the act of writing any thoughts by hand — can offer profound moments of calm and connection. We're thrilled to be joined once again by Sue Cunningham, an Allender Center facilitator and licensed therapist. Sue wears many hats — poet, life and soul coach, spiritual director — and now, podcast host! Be sure to check out her newly launched podcast, Living Poetry, available wherever you listen to podcasts. We hope this episode feels like a balm for your soul, offering beauty, healing, and practical ways to use poetry to find peace and grounding in this season.  

Sam Jolman (MA LPC) is a trauma therapist with over twenty years of experience specializing in men's issues and sexual trauma recovery. He is also the author of “The Sex Talk You Never Got: Reclaiming the Heart of Masculine Sexuality”. Being a therapist has given him a front-row seat to hear hundreds of men and women share their stories. His writing flows out of this unique opportunity to help people know and heal their stories, and find greater sexual wholeness and aliveness. He received his master's in counseling from Reformed Theological Seminary and was further trained in Narrative Focused Trauma Care through the Allender Center at The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. Sam lives in Colorado with his wife and three sons. LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE IF: You are starved for a healthy conversation on sexuality You have experienced a shame-based relationship with your sexuality You want to learn more about the difference between lust and desire You want insights into how to improve your romantic relationships Follow Sam at: Instagram: @samjolman X: @samjolman www.samjolman.com

Today on Karl and Crew, we continued our theme, "Experiencing God," taking some time to talk more about self-examination. We looked at Matthew 26:36-41, Jeremiah 2:13, and Psalm 139:23-24 as we discussed two important disciplines that can help you experience God more readily. Our guest was Dr. Dan Allender, Professor of Counseling Psychology and co-founder of The Allender Center. He speaks extensively on trauma recovery and faith transformation. Check out this powerful interview and all of the highlights of today's show on the Karl and Crew Podcast. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week, we're sifting through some of the "debris" that can hinder people from moving into the healing process in the wake of sexual abuse.  Dan and Rachael talk about some of the questions that can keep people feeling stuck and silent: What if I don't remember everything? What if my healing journey affects my loved ones? Shouldn't I just forgive and move on? Can I wait until life isn't so busy? What if facing this feels overwhelming? By acknowledging these barriers, you can start to see a way through. Next week, we'll discuss what's needed to begin the healing journey from past abuse. Please note that this episode contains discussions of sexual abuse and childhood sexual abuse, and may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Listener Resources: Explore more podcast episodes including: "The Cost of Engaging Stories of Sexual Abuse," "Connections Between Spiritual and Sexual Abuse," and "Bearing Witness to Stories of Sexual Abuse and Racial Trauma." Read: Healing the Wounded Heart by Dr. Dan Allender Sign up for the Healing the Wounded Heart Online Course from the Allender Center  

Spiritual director and story coach, TJ Poon, sits down with Rachael Clinton Chen to explore the intersection of spiritual formation and White racial identity development.  We'll begin by saying that we are approaching this conversation with a deep sense of responsibility and humility, honoring the voices of people of color who have led the way and are aware that two White people are not experts on racism. This is a complex topic and there will be missteps. Even when the conversations are difficult, we at the Allender Center know that the realities of racism and White supremacy cannot be ignored, and we are committed to holding a space to engage them. In today's episode, TJ and Rachael consider how White-bodied people understand their stories, how their stories and spiritual formation have been influenced by systems of Whiteness, and the challenge of feeling anchored and connected to family histories. They also acknowledge that on this journey of personal and collective healing, White people will inevitably need to confront anxiety, shame, and humiliation in their pursuit of restoration, with a commitment to what TJ calls “joyful anti-racist action.” We hope you'll join us in this conversation with curiosity, compassion, and courage, understanding that ongoing dialogue, learning, and formation are vital to our work with trauma on behalf of the kingdom of God. We invite you to also listen to: Racial Trauma and White Supremacy Becoming an Anti-Racist, Part One Becoming an Anti-Racist, Part Two The Violence of Marginalization