Podcasts about allender center

Cathy Loerzel is the co-founder and Executive Vice President of The Allender Center, an organization focused on healing trauma through the power of story, psychology, and theology. She works closely with Dr. Dan Allender to train therapists, pastors, and leaders in narrative-focused care. Cathy is also the co-author of Redeeming Heartache: How Past Suffering Reveals True Calling, which explores how pain and trauma can become sources of purpose and restoration. With a background in counseling and community development, she is known for her compassionate, insightful approach to helping people understand their stories and reclaim their identities. Beyond her leadership and writing, Cathy is a frequent speaker and teacher on topics of redemption, identity, and relational wholeness. http://www.worshipcircle.com

Bio: Jenny - Co-Host Podcast (er):I am Jenny! (She/Her) MACP, LMHCI am a Licensed Mental Health Counselor, Somatic Experiencing® Practitioner, Certified Yoga Teacher, and an Approved Supervisor in the state of Washington.I have spent over a decade researching the ways in which the body can heal from trauma through movement and connection. I have come to see that our bodies know what they need. By approaching our body with curiosity we can begin to listen to the innate wisdom our body has to teach us. And that is where the magic happens!I was raised within fundamentalist Christianity. I have been, and am still on my own journey of healing from religious trauma and religious sexual shame (as well as consistently engaging my entanglement with white saviorism). I am a white, straight, able-bodied, cis woman. I recognize the power and privilege this affords me socially, and I am committed to understanding my bias' and privilege in the work that I do. I am LGBTQIA+ affirming and actively engage critical race theory and consultation to see a better way forward that honors all bodies of various sizes, races, ability, religion, gender, and sexuality.I am immensely grateful for the teachers, healers, therapists, and friends (and of course my husband and dog!) for the healing I have been offered. I strive to pay it forward with my clients and students. Few things make me happier than seeing people live freely in their bodies from the inside out!Rebecca A. Wheeler Walston, J.D., Master of Arts in CounselingEmail: asolidfoundationcoaching@gmail.comPhone:  +1.5104686137Website: Rebuildingmyfoundation.comI have been doing story work for nearly a decade. I earned a Master of Arts in Counseling from Reformed Theological Seminary and trained in story work at The Allender Center at The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. I have served as a story facilitator and trainer at both The Allender Center and the Art of Living Counseling Center. I currently see clients for one-on-one story coaching and work as a speaker and facilitator with Hope & Anchor, an initiative of The Impact Movement, Inc., bringing the power of story work to college students.By all accounts, I should not be the person that I am today. I should not have survived the difficulties and the struggles that I have faced. At best, I should be beaten down by life‘s struggles, perhaps bitter. I should have given in and given up long ago. But I was invited to do the good work of (re)building a solid foundation. More than once in my life, I have witnessed God send someone my way at just the right moment to help me understand my own story, and to find the strength to step away from the seemingly inevitable ending of living life in defeat. More than once I have been invited and challenged to find the resilience that lies within me to overcome the difficult moment. To trust in the goodness and the power of a kind gesture. What follows is a snapshot of a pivotal invitation to trust the kindness of another in my own story. May it invite you to receive to the pivotal invitation of kindness in your own story. Listen with me…     Danielle (00:17):Welcome to the Arise podcast, and as you know, we're continuing on the intersection of where our reality meets and today it's where our reality meets our resilience. And how do we define that? A lovely conversation. It's actually just part one. I'm thinking it's going to be multiple conversations. Jenny McGrath, LMHC, and Rebecca Wheeler, Walston. Join me again, look for their bios in the notes and tag along with us. I thought we could start by talking about what do we see as resilience in this moment and what do we see, maybe like I'm saying a lot now, what do we see as the ideal of that resilience and what is actually accessible to us? Because I think there's these great quotes from philosophers and our ancestors, but we don't know all their day-to-day life. What did it look like day to day? So I'm wondering, just kind of posing that for you all, what do you think about resilience? How does it intersect with this moment and how do we kind of ground ourselves in reality?Rebecca (01:33):Rebecca? Coffee helps. Coffee definitely helps. It does. I have coffee here.(01:42):Me too. I would probably try to start with something of a working definition of the word. One of the things that I think makes this moment difficult in terms of a sense of what's real and what's not is the way that our vocabulary is being co-opted or redefined without our permission. And things are being defined in ways that are not accurate or not grounded in reality. And I think that that's part of what feels disorienting in this moment. So I would love for us to just start with a definition of the word, and I'm guessing the three of us will have different versions of that.(02:25):So if I had to start, I would say that I used to think about resilience as sort of springing back to a starting point. You started in this place and then something knocked you off of where you started. And resilience is about making it back to the place that you were before you got knocked off of your path. And my definition of that word has shifted in recent years to a sense of resilience that is more about having come through some difficulty. I don't actually bounce back to where I started. I actually adopt a new normal new starting place that has integrated the lessons learned or the strengths or the skills developed for having gone through the process of facing something difficult.Jenny, I love that. I feel like it reminds me of a conversation you and I had many moons ago, Rebecca, around what is flourishing and kind of these maybe idealistic ideas around something that isn't actually rooted in reality. And I love that that definition of resistance feels so committed to being in reality. And I am not going to erase everything I went through to try to get back to something, but I'm actually going to, my word is compost or use what I've gone through to bring me to where I am. Now, this will not surprise either of you. I think when I think of resilience, I think somatically and how we talk about a nervous system or a body and what allows resilience. And so one of the ways that that is talked about is through heart rate variability and our ability for our heart to speed up and slow down is one of the defining factors of our body's ability to stay resilient.(04:42):Can I come to a state of rest and I think about how rest is a privilege that not all bodies have. And so when I think about resilience in that way, it makes me think about how do I actually zoom out of resilience being about an individual body and how do we form kind of more of a collective sense of resilience where we are coworking to create a world where all bodies get to return to that level of safety and rest and comfort and aren't having to stay in a mode of vigilance. And so I see resilience almost as one of the directions that I'm wanting to move and not a place that we're at yet collectively. Collectively meaning whoJenny (05:41):I say collectively, I'm hoping for a world that does not exist yet where it gets to be all bodies, human and non-human, and the ways in which we allow ecosystems to rest, we allow a night sky to rest. We allow ourselves to become more in rhythm with the activation and deactivation that I think nature teaches us of more summer and winter and day and night and these rhythms that I think we're meant to flow in. But in a productive capitalistic society where lights are never turned off and energy is only ever thought about and how do we produce more or different energy, I'm like, how do we just stop producing energy and just take a nap? I'm really inspired by the nat ministry of just like rest actually is a really important part of resistance. And so I have these lofty ideals of what collective means while being aware that we are coming to that collective from very different places in our unresolved historical relational field that we're in.I would say there's a lot I'd love about that, all of that. And I, dear use of the word lofty, I feel that word in this moment that causes me to consider the things that feel like they're out of reach. I think the one thing that I would probably add to what you said is I think you used the phrase like returning to a state of rest when you were talking about heart rate and body. And if we're talking about an individual ability to catch my breath and slow it down, I can track with you through the returning to something. But when we go from that individual to this collective space where I live in the hyphenated existence of the African American story, I don't have the sense of returning to something because African hyphen American people were born as a people group out of this horrific traumatic space called the transatlantic slave trade.(08:15):And so I don't know that our bodies have ever known a sense of rest on us soil. And I don't know that I would feel that that sense of rest on the continent either having been there several times, that sense of something happened in the transition from Africa to America, that I lost my africanness in such a way that doesn't feel like a place of rest. And sometimes we talk about it in terms of for certain people groups, land is connected to that sense of rest for Native Americans, for indigenous people, for certain Latin cultures. But for the African American person, there's not a connection to land. There's only maybe a connection to the water of the transatlantic slave trade. And then water is never at rest. It's always moving, right? So I stay with you and then I lose you and then I come back to you.Danielle (09:25):That feels like a normal part of healing. I stay with you, I lose you and then I come back to you. I think resilience for me has meant living in this family with my partner who's a first generation immigrant and then having kids and having to remind myself that my kids were raised by both of us with two wildly different perspectives even though we share culture. And so there's things that are taught, there's things that are learned that are very different lessons that I cannot be surprised about what might be a form of resilience for my child and what might be a struggle where there isn't groundwork there.(10:22):I remember when Luis came to the United States, his parents said to him, we'll see you in a couple weeks. And I used to think my young self, I was like, what does that mean? They don't think we're going to stay married or whatever. But his dad also told him, be careful up there, be careful. And if Luis were here to tell this story, he said it many times. He's like, I didn't come to the United States because I thought it was the best thing that could happen to me. I came to marry you, I came to be with you, but I didn't come here because it was the best thing to happen to me. When his family came up for the wedding, they were very explicit. We didn't come here, we're not in awe. They wanted to make sure people knew we're okay. And I know there's wildly different experiences on the spectrum of this, but I think about that a lot. And so resilience has looked really different for us.(11:23):I think it is forming that bond with people that came here because they needed work or a different kind of setting or change to people that are already here. And I think as you witness our culture now, handle what's happening with kidnappings, what's happening with moms, what's happening with people on the street, snatching people off the street. You see that in the last election there was a wide range of voters on our side on the Latinx Latina side, and there was a spectrum of thoughts on what would actually help our community. But now you're seeing that quickly contract and basically like, oh shit, that wasn't helpful. So I think my challenge to myself has been how do I stay? Part of resilience for me is how do I stay in contact with people that I love that don't share in the same view as humanity as me? And I think that's an exercise that our people have done for a long time.Rebecca (12:38):Say that last sentence one more time, Danielle.Danielle (12:42):Just like, how do I stay in contact with people that I love that don't share my view of humanity, that don't share the valuation of humanity? How do I stay in contact with them because I actually see them as human too. And I think that's been a part of our resiliency over many years in Latin America just due to constant interference from European governmental powers.Rebecca (13:16):That partly why I think I asked you to repeat that last sentence is because I think I disconnected for a minute and I want to be mindful of disconnecting over a sentence that is about staying connected to people who don't value the same things that I value or don't value or see humanity in the way that I see in humanity. And I'm super aware, part of the conversation that's happening in the black community in this moment, particularly with black women, is the idea that we're not going to step to the forefront in this one. We are culturally, collectively, consciously making a decision to check out. And so if you see any of this on social media, there's a sense of like we're standing around learning line dances from Beyonce about boots on the ground instead of actively engaging in this moment. And so I have some ambivalence about whether or not does that count as resilience, right?(14:28):And is it resilient in a way that's actually kind to us as a people? And I'm not sure if I have an answer to that yet. In my mind the jury is still out, right? There are things about black women stepping to the side that make me really nervous because that's not who we are. It's not historically who we have been. And I am concerned that what we're doing is cutting off parts of ourself. And at the same time, I can tell you that I have not watched a news program. I have not watched a single news recording of anything since November 2nd, 2024.Danielle (15:13):I can just feel the tension of all of our different viewpoints, not that we're in conflict with one another, but we're not exactly on the same page either. And not that we're not on the same team, but I can feel that pull. Anybody else feel that?Rebecca (15:35):Does it feel like, I would agree we're not on the same page and in some ways I don't expect that we would be because we're so different. But does that pull feel like an invitation to clash or does it feel like it is actually okay to not necessarily be on the same page?Danielle (16:06):Well, I think it feels both things. I think I feel okay with it because I know you all and I'm trying to practice that. And I also think I feel annoyed that we can't all be on the same page some sense of annoyance. But I don't know if that annoyance is from you all. I feel the annoyance. It feels like noise from the outside to me a bit. It is not you or Jenny, it's just a general annoyance with how hard this shit is.Rebecca (16:45):And I definitely feel like one of the things I think that happens around supremacy and whiteness on us soil is the larger narrative that we have to be at odds with one another that there isn't a capacity or a way that would allow us to differentiate and not villainize or demonize the person that you are or the community that you are differentiated from. And I think we haven't always had the space collectively to think about what does it mean to walk alongside, what does it mean to lock arms? What does it mean to pull resources even with someone that we're on the same team, but maybe not at the same vantage point.Jenny (17:47):I have two thoughts. Three, I guess I'm aware even my continual work around internalized white saviorism, that part of my ambivalence is like where do you each need me? Are we aligning with people or are we saying f you to people? And I can feel that within me and it takes so much work to come back to, I might actually have a third way that's different than both of you, and that gets to be okay too. But I'm aware that there is that tendency to step into over alignment out of this savior movement and mentality. So just wanted to name that that is there.(18:41):And as you were sharing Rebecca, the word that came to mind for me was orthodoxy. And I don't often think of white supremacy without thinking of Christian supremacy because they've been so interlocked for so long. And the idea that there are many faith traditions including the Jewish tradition that has a mid rash. And it's like we actually come to scripture and we argue about it because we have different viewpoints and that's beautiful and lovely because the word of God is living in all of us. And when orthodoxy came around, it's like, no, we have to be in 100% agreement of these theologies or these doctrines and that's what it means to be Christian. And then eventually I think that's what it means to be a white Christian. So yeah, I think for folks like myself who were immersed in that world growing up, it feels existentially terrifying because it's like if I don't align with the orthodoxy of whiteness or Christianity or capitalism, it viscerally feels like I am risking eternity in hell. And so I better just play it safe and agree with whatever my pastor tells me or whatever the next white Republican male tells me. And so I feel that the weight of what this mindset of orthodoxy has done,Rebecca (20:21):I'm like, I got to take a breath on that one because I got a lot of stuff going on internally. And I think, so my faith tradition has these sort of two parallels. There's this space that I grew up in was rooted in the black church experience and then also in college that introduction into that white evangelical parachurch space where all of that orthodoxy was very, very loud and a version of Christianity that was there is but one way to do all of these things and that one way looks like this. And if you're doing anything other than that, there's something wrong with what you're doing. And so for me, there are parts of me that can walk with you right through that orthodoxy door. And there's also this part of me where the black church experience was actually birthed in opposition to that orthodoxy, that same orthodoxy that said I was three fifths of a person, that same orthodoxy that said that my conversion to Christianity on earth did not change my status as an enslaved person.(21:39):And so I have this other faith tradition that is built around the notion that that orthodoxy is actually a perversion of authentic Christian expression. And so I have both of those things in my body right now going, and so that's just my reaction I think to what you said. I feel both of those things and there are times when I will say to my husband, Ooh, my evangelical illness is showing because I can feel it, like want to push back on this flexibility and this oxygen that is in the room through the black church experience that says I get to come as I am with no apology and no explanation, and Jesus will meet me wherever that is end of conversation, end debate.Danielle (22:46):I don't know. I had a lot of thoughts. They're all kind of mumbled together. I think we have a lot of privilege to have a conversation like this because when you leave a space like this that's curated with people, you've had relationships over a long time maybe had disagreements with or rubbed scratchy edges with. When you get out into the world, you encounter a lot of big feelings that are unprocessed and they don't have words and they have a lot of room for interpretation. So you're just getting hit, hit, hit, hit and the choices to engage, how do you honor that person and engage? You don't want to name their feelings, you don't want to take over interpreting them, but it feels in this moment that we're being invited to interpret one another's feelings a lot. But here we're putting language to that. I mean Jenny and I talked about it recently, but it turns into a lot of relational cutoffs.(23:55):I can't talk to you because X, I can't talk to you because X, I don't want to read your news article. And a lot of times they're like, Danielle, why did you read Charlie Kirk? And I was like, because I have family that was interested in it. I've been watching his videos for years because I wanted to understand what are they hearing, what's going on. Yeah, did it make me mad sometimes? Absolutely. Did I turn it off? Yeah, I still engage and then I swing and listen to the Midas touch or whatever just like these opposite ends and it gives me great joy to listen to something like that. But when we're out and about, if we're saying resiliency comes through connection to our culture and to one another, but then with all the big feelings you can feel just the formidable splits anywhere you go, the danger of speaking of what's unspeakable and you get in a room with people you agree with and then suddenly you can talk. And I don't know how many of us are in rooms where resilience is actually even required in a conversation.Rebecca (25:15):It makes me think about the idea that we don't have good sort of rules of engagement around how to engage someone that thinks differently than we do and we have to kind of create them on the fly. When you were talking Danielle about the things you choosing to read Charlie Kirk, or not choosing to listen to something that reflects your values or not, and the invitation in this moment or the demand that if someone thinks differently than me, it is just a straight cutoff. I'm not even willing to consider that there's any kind of veracity in your viewpoint whatsoever. And I think we don't have good theology, we don't have good vocabulary, we don't have good rules of engagement about when is it okay to say, actually, I'm going to choose not to engage you. And what are the reasons why we would do that that are good reasons, that are wise reasons that are kind reasons? And I think the country is in a debate about that and we don't always get the answer to those questions and because we don't get it right then there's just relational debris all over the floor.Jenny (26:47):I'm just thinking about, I am far from skilled or perfect at this by any means, but I feel like these last couple years I live in a van and one of the reasons that we decided to do that was that we would say, I think I know two things about every state, and they're probably both wrong. And I think for our own reasons, my husband and I don't like other people telling us what is true. We like to learn and discover and feel it in our own bodies. And so it's been really important for us to literally physically go to places and talk to people. And I think it has been a giant lesson for me on nuance and that nobody is all one thing. And often there's people that are on the completely opposite side of the aisle, but we actually look at the same issues and we have a problem with the issues. We just have heard very, very different ways of fixing or tending to those issues. And so I think often if we can come down to what are we fearing, what is happening, what is going on, we can kind of wrestle there a little bit more than jumping to, so what's the solution? And staying more in that dirt level.(28:22):And not always perfectly of course, but I think that's been one of the things in an age of the algorithm and social media, it is easy for me to have very broad views of what certain states or certain people groups or certain voting demographics are like. And then when you are face to face, you have to wrestle. And I love that when you said, Daniel, I see them as human. And it's like, oh yeah, it's so much easier to see someone as not human when I'm learning about them from a TikTok reel or from a news segment than when I'm sharing a meal with them and hearing about their story and how they've come to believe the things they've believed or wrestle with the things they're wrestling with.Rebecca (29:14):Two things. One, I think what you're talking about Jenny, is the value of proximity. The idea that I've stepped close to someone into their space, into their world with a posture of I'm going to just listen. I'm going to learn, I'm going to be curious. And in that curiosity, open handed and open-minded about all kinds of assumptions and presuppositions. And you're right, we don't do that a lot. The second thing that I was thinking when you mentioned getting into the dirt, I think you used the phrase like staying in the darker sort of edges of some of those hard conversations. That feels like a choice towards resiliency. To me, the idea that I will choose of my will to stay in the room, in the relationship, in the conversation long enough to wrestle long enough to learn something long enough to have my perspective challenged in a real way that makes me rethink the way I see something or the lens that I have on that particular subject.(30:33):And I don't think we could use more of that in this moment. I think probably our friendship, what started as a professional connection that has over the years developed into this friendship is about the choice to stay connected and the choice to stay in the conversation. I know when I first met you, we were going to do a seminar together and someone said, oh yeah, Jenny's getting ready to talk on something about white people. And I had 8,000 assumptions about what you were going to say and all kinds of opinions about my assumptions about what you're going to say. And I was like, well, I want to talk to her. I want to know what is she going to say? And really it was because if she says anything crazy, we right, we all have problems, me and you, right? And the graciousness with which you actually entered that conversation to go like, okay, I'm listening. What is it that you want to ask me? I think as part of why we're still friends, why we're still colleagues, why we still work together, is that invitation from you, that acceptance of that invitation from me. Can we wrestle? Can we box over this and come out the other side having learned something about ourselves and each other?Jenny (32:10):And I think part of that for me, what I have to do is reach for my lineage pre whiteness. And I have this podcast series that I love called Search for the Slavic Soul that has made me make more sense to myself. And there's this entire episode on why do Slavic people love to argue? And I'm like, oh, yes. And I think part of that has been me working out that place of white woman fragility that says, if someone questions my ideas or my values or my views, I need to disintegrate and I need to crumple. And so I'm actually so grateful for that time and for how we've continued to be able to say, I don't agree with that, and we can still be okay and we can still kind of navigate because of course we're probably going to see things differently based on our experiences.Danielle (33:16):That is exactly the problem though is because there's a lot of, not everybody, but there's a lot of folks that don't really have a sense of self or have a sense of their own body. So there's so much enmeshment with whoever they're with. So when then confronted and mesh, I mean merging, we're the same self. It adds protection. Think about it. We all do it. Sometimes I need to be people just like me. It's not bad. But if that sense of merging will cost you the ability to connect to someone different than you or that sees very different than you, and when they confront that, if they're quote alone physically or alone emotionally in that moment, they'll disappear or they'll cut you off or they'll go away or it comes out as violence. I believe it comes out as shootings as we could go on with the list of violent outcomes that kind of cut, that kind of separation happens. So I mean, I'm not like Jenny, that's awesome. And it doesn't feel that typical to me.Rebecca (34:36):What you just described to me, Daniel, I have been going like, isn't that whiteness though, the whole point, and I'm talking about whiteness, not the people who believe themselves to be white, to quote taishi quotes. The whole point of whiteness is this enmeshment of all these individual European countries and cultures and people into this one big blob that has no real face on it. And maybe that's where the fragility comes from. So I love when Jenny said, it makes me reach back into my ancestry pre whiteness, and I'm going, that needs to be on a t-shirt. Please put it on a t-shirt, a coffee mug, a hat, something. And so that's sort of Taishi Coates concept of the people who believe themselves to be white is a way to put into words this idea that that's not actually your story. It's not actually your ancestry.(35:43):It's not actually your lineage. It's the disruption and the eraser and the stealing of your lineage in exchange for access to power and privilege. And I do think it is this enmeshment, this collective enmeshment of an entire European continent. And perhaps you're right that that's where the fragility comes from. So when you try to extract a person or a people group out of that, I don't know who I am, if absent this label of whiteness, I don't know what that means by who I am now I'm talking like I know what I'm talking about. I'm not white, so let me shut up. Maybe that means Jenny, you could say if I misunderstood you misquoted, you misrepresented allJenny (36:31):The No, no, I think yeah, I'm like, yes, yes, yes. And it also makes me go back to what you said about proximity. And I think that that is part of the design of whiteness, and even what you were saying about faith, and you can correct me, but my understanding is that those who could vote and those who could own property were Christian. And then when enslaved black people started converting to Christianity and saying, I can actually take pieces of this and I can own this and I can have this white enslavers had a conundrum because then they couldn't use the word Christian in the way that they used to justify chattel slavery and wealth disparity. So they created the word white, and so then it was then white people that could own property and could vote. And so what that did was also disable a class solidarity between lower socioeconomic white bodies and newly emancipated black bodies to say, no, we're not in this together struggling against those that own the highest wealth. I have this pseudo connection with bodies that hold wealth because of the color of my skin. And so then it removes both my proximity to my own body and my proximity to bodies that are probably in a similar struggle, very disproportionate and different than my own because I have white privilege. But it also then makes white bodies align with the system instead of co-conspirator with bodies working towards liberation.Rebecca (38:32):I do think that that's true. I think there's a lot of data historically about the intentional division that was driven between poor people in the colonies and wealthy people in the colonies. And I say people because I think the class stratification included enslaved Africans, free Africans, poor whites, native American people that were there as well. And so I think that there was a kind of diversity there in terms of race and ethnicity and nationality that was intentionally split and then reorganize along racial lines. The only thing that I would add on the Christian or the faith spectrum is that there's a book by Jamar TBE called The Color of Compromise. And one of the things that he talks about in that book is the religious debate that was happening when the colonies were being organized around if you proselytize your slave and they convert, then do you have to emancipate them?(39:43):Because in England, the religious law was that you could not enslave or in put a believer into servitude in any form, whether that's indentured servitude or slavery. Well, I got a problem with the premise, the idea that if you were not a Christian in medieval England, I could do whatever I wanted to. The premise is wrong in the first place. The thought that you could own or indenture a human to another human is problematic on its face. So I just want to name that the theological frame that they brought from England was already jacked, and then they superimposed it in the colonies and made a conscious decision at the House of Burgess, which is about a mile from where I'm sitting, made a conscious decision to decide that your conversion to Christianity does not impact any part of your life on earth. It only impacts your eternity. So all you did was by fire insurance, meaning that your eternity is now in heaven and not in hell, but on earth I can do whatever I want. And that split that perversion of the gospel at that moment to decide that the kingdom of God has nothing to do with what is happening on earth is something we're still living with today. Right? It's the reason why you have 90 some odd percent of evangelicals voting for all kinds of policies that absolutely violate every tenant of scripture in the Bible and probably every other holy book on the planet, and then still standing in their pulpit on Sunday morning and preaching that they represent God. It's ridiculous. It's offensive.Danielle (41:38):I just feel like this is proving my point. So I feel like other people may have said this, but who's kept talking about this exchange for whiteness? Bro, we're in the timeline where Jesus, their Jesus said yes to the devil. He's like, give me the power, give me the money, give me the bread. And if you want to come into their religion, you have to trade in how God actually made you for to say yes to that same temptation for power and money and whatever, and erase your face's. One comment. Second comment is this whole thing about not giving healthcare to poor families.(42:20):I hesitate to say this word, but I'm reminded of the story of the people that first came here from England, and I'm aware that they were starving at one point, and I'm aware that they actually ate off their own people, and that's partly how they survived. And it feels the same way to me, here, give us the power, give us the control, give us the money. And we're like, the fact is, is that cutting off healthcare for millions of Americans doesn't affect immigrants at all. They're not on those plans. It affects most poor whites and they have no problem doing it and then saying, come, give me your bread. Come give me your cheese. Come give me your vote. It's like a self flesh eating virus, and(43:20):I am almost speechless from it. There's this rumor that migrants have all the health insurance, and I know that's not true because Luis legally came here. He had paperwork, he was documented, got his green card, then got his citizenship, and even after citizenship to prove we could get health insurance, when he got off his job, we had to not only submit his passport, but his certificate that was proof of citizenship through the state of Washington, a very liberal state to get him on health insurance. So I know there's not 25 million immigrants in the country falsifying those records. That's just not happening. So I know that that's a lie from personal experience, but I also know that the point is, the point is the lie. The point is to tell you the lie and actually stab the person in the back that you're lying to. That just feels dark to me. I went off, sorry, that's kind of off the subject of resilience.Rebecca (44:36):No, I have two reactions to that. The first one is when we were talking just a few minutes ago about the exchange for power and privilege, it's actually a false invitation to a table that doesn't actually exist. That's what, to me is darkest about it. It's the promise of this carrot that you have no intention of ever delivering. And people have so bought into the lie so completely that it's like you didn't even stop to consider that, let alone the ability to actually see this is not actually an invitation to anything. So that is partly what I think about. And if you read the book, the Sum of Us, it actually talks about Sum, SUM, the sum of us. It actually talks about the cost, the economic cost of racism, and each chapter is about a different industry and how there were racist policies set up in that industry.(45:49):And basically the point the author makes is that at every turn, in order to subjugate and oppress a community of color, white people had to sacrifice something for themselves and oppress themselves and disenfranchise themselves in order to pull it off. And they did it anyway because essentially it is wealthy white, it's affluent white male that ends up with the power and the privilege, and everybody else is subjugated and oppressed. And that's a conversation. I don't understand it. The gaslighting is got to be astronomical and brilliant to convince an entire community of people to vote against themselves. So I'm over there with you on the limb, Danielle,Jenny (47:16):Yeah, I am thinking about Fox News and how most impoverished white communities, that is the only source of information that they have because there isn't proximity and there isn't a lot of other conversations. It is exactly what Tucker Carlson or all of these people are spewing. And I think fear is such a powerful tool, and honestly, I don't see it as that different than early indoctrination around hell and using that to capitulate people into the roles that the church wanted them. And so it's like things might be bad now, but there are going to be so much worse quote because of the racial fear mongering of immigrants, of folks of color, of these people coming to take your jobs that if you can work, people who are already struggling into such a frenzy of fear, I think they're going to do things drastically vote for Trump because they think he's going to save the economy because that's what they're hearing, regardless of if that is even remotely true, and regardless of the fact that most white bodies are more likely to be climate refugees than they are to be billionaire friends withRebecca (48:59):So then what does resilience look like in the face of that kind of fearmongering?Jenny (49:24):This is maybe my nihilistic side. I don't know that things are going to get better before they get far worse. And I think that's where the resilience piece comes in. I was like, how do we hold on to our own humanity? How do we hold onto our communities? How do we hold onto hope in the reality that things will likely get worse and worse and worse before some type of reckoning or shift happens,Rebecca(50:23):Yeah. There's actually, I saw an Instagram post a couple months ago, and I want to say it was Bruce Springsteen and he was just lamenting the erosion of art and culture and music in this moment that there's not art in the Oval Office, that there's not, and just his sense that art and music and those kinds of expressions, actually, I don't think he used the word defiance, but that's the sentiment that I walked away with. That is a way to amplify our humanity in a way that invites proximity to cultures and people that are different than you. This whole argument that we're having right now about whether this election of Bad Bunny makes any sense and the different sort of arguments about what the different sides that people have taken on that, it's hilarious. And then there's something about it that feels very real.Danielle (51:31):Yeah, I had someone told me, I'm not watching it because he's a demonic Marxist. I was like, can you be a Marxist and be in the entertainment industry anyway? Clearly, we're going to have to talk about this again. I wrote an essay for good faith media and I was just, I couldn't wrap it up. And they're like, that's okay. Don't wrap it up. It's not meant to be wrapped up. So maybe that's how our conversation is too. I dunno. Jenny, what are you thinking?Jenny (52:13):I have many thoughts, mostly because I just watched one battle after another last night, and I don't want to give any spoilers away, but I feel like it was a really, it's a very million trigger warnings piece of art that I think encapsulates so much of what we're talking about and sort of this transgenerational story of resilience and what does it mean whether that is my own children or other children in this world to lean into, this probably isn't going to end with me. I'm probably not going to fix this. So how do we continue to maybe push the ball forward in the midst of the struggle for future generations? And I think I'm grateful for this space. I think this is one of the ways that we maybe begin to practice and model what proximity and difference and resilience can look like. And it's probably not always going to be easy or there's going to be struggles that probably come even as we work on engaging this together. And I'm grateful that we get to engage this together.Danielle (53:35):Well, we can always continue our thoughts next week. That's right. Yeah, Rebecca. Okay, I'll be locked in, especially because I said it in the podcast.Rebecca (53:48):I know. I do agree with that. Jenny, I particularly agree having this conversation, the three of us intentionally staying in each other's lives, checking on each other, checking in with each other, all that feels like this sort of defiant intentional resilience, particularly in a moment in history where things that have been our traditional expression of resilience have been cut off like it In recent US history, any major change happened, usually started on the college campus with public protests and public outcry, and those avenues have been cut off. It is no longer safe to speak out on a college campus. People are losing their degrees, they're getting kicked out of colleges, they're getting expelled from colleges for teachers are getting fired for expressing viewpoints that are not in line with the majority culture at this moment. And so those traditional avenues of resilience, I think it was an intentional move to go after those spaces first to shut down what we would normally do to rally collectively to survive a moment. And so I think part of what feels hard in this moment is we're having to reinvent them. And I think it's happening on a micro level because those are the avenues that we've been left with, is this sort of micro way to be resistant and to be resilient.Danielle (55:31):As you can see, we didn't finish our conversation this round, so check out the next episode. After this, we'll be wrapping up this conversation or at least continuing it. And at the end in the notes, their resources, I encourage you to connect with community, have conversations, give someone a hug that you trust and love and care for, and looking forward to having you join us.Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

"Send us a message! (questions, feedback, etc.)"Suffering. We don't like it. Most of us probably don't even like the word. Suffering brings to mind experiences of abuse, neglect, rejection, abandonment... traumatic events that lodged themselves into our lives as long-term traumas. How do we get away from suffering?Our guest CATHY LOERZEL gives an answer many won't like. We don't get away from suffering. It is inevitable and unavoidable in this life. We are made for perfect care, yet none of us receives care perfectly or completely. But the fact that suffering is going to be part of life doesn't have to be defeating or depressing.As a speaker, coach, co-founder of The Allender Center, and co-author (with Dan Allender) of Redeeming Heartache: How Past Suffering Reveals our True Calling," Cathy has given us a gift as she helps us understand what it's like to "make friends with the reality of suffering." Our conversation visits how to "be with" the suffering we face, and to see how God meets us, heals us, and changes us as we walk through whatever kind of suffering we encounter.Cathy's websiteRedeeming Heartache (on Amazon)Retreats & Workshops offered by The Allender Center#cathyloerzel #storywork #storyworkcoach #redeemingheartache #suffering #trauma #addiction #healing #recovery #grace #gospel #transformation #awaken #awakenrecovery #awakenpodcast #whatwereallywant #wwrw  #connection #conversation  Support the showAwaken websiteRoots Retreat Men's IntensiveRoots Retreat Women's WorkshopAwaken Men & Women's support meeting info (including virtual)

Rebecca A. Wheeler Walston, J.D., Master of Arts in CounselingEmail: asolidfoundationcoaching@gmail.comPhone:  +1.5104686137Website: Rebuildingmyfoundation.comI have been doing story work for nearly a decade. I earned a Master of Arts in Counseling from Reformed Theological Seminary and trained in story work at The Allender Center at The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. I have served as a story facilitator and trainer at both The Allender Center and the Art of Living Counseling Center. I currently see clients for one-on-one story coaching and work as a speaker and facilitator with Hope & Anchor, an initiative of The Impact Movement, Inc., bringing the power of story work to college students.By all accounts, I should not be the person that I am today. I should not have survived the difficulties and the struggles that I have faced. At best, I should be beaten down by life‘s struggles, perhaps bitter. I should have given in and given up long ago. But I was invited to do the good work of (re)building a solid foundation. More than once in my life, I have witnessed God send someone my way at just the right moment to help me understand my own story, and to find the strength to step away from the seemingly inevitable ending of living life in defeat. More than once I have been invited and challenged to find the resilience that lies within me to overcome the difficult moment. To trust in the goodness and the power of a kind gesture. What follows is a snapshot of a pivotal invitation to trust the kindness of another in my own story. May it invite you to receive to the pivotal invitation of kindness in your own story. Listen with me… Rebecca (01:12):Say, oh, this is for black women, and then what? Because I quoted a couple of black people that count. I don't want to do that. And also I'm still trying to process. When you run a group like that for, and it's not embedded in something like a story workshop or a larger kind of thing, the balance of how do you give people the information and still leave room to process all of that. I'm still trying to figure out what does it look like? What does it feel like? What does it sound like? And I won't be able to figure, it's not like I can figure it out before the group and you know what I mean? You just have to roll with it. So yeah,Danielle (02:01):All those things. That's so hard, man. Man, dude, that's so hard. It's so hard to categorize it. Even What's the right time of day to hold this? What are the right words to say to tell people, this is how you can show up. And even when you say all those things and you think you've created some clarity or safety or space, they still show up in their own way, of course. And they may not have read your email. They may have signed all this stuff and it may not be what they want. Or maybe it changes and it becomes something even more beautiful. I don't know. That's how I've experienced it.Rebecca (02:39):It's all those things, and I think, and this is what I want to do, this is taking this work into a community and a space that is never going to show up in Seattle for all a thousand reasons. And soDanielle (02:56):Thousands of dollar reasons,Rebecca (02:58):Right? Thousands of dollar reasons. And so this is what I want to do. And so the million dollar question, how do you actually do that with some integrity? How do you do it in a way that actually, I don't even know if I could say I know that I want it to produce a particular result is just when I started doing this on my own, I had a lot of people reach out to me and go like, this is amazing. This is a brilliant, this is something I've been looking for without knowing that's what I've been looking for. Do you know what I mean? I think that that's true, sort of that evangelical refugee space. That's true right now. I think it's appealing on those levels. I think for people who would not necessarily go to therapy for the hundred of reasons why that's an uncomfortable thing. Culturally, this feels like it has a little more oxygen in the room,Danielle  (04:20):And I'll turn my screen off. I'll make the call and then yeah, then I want to hear a little bit about your business, more about your group, and I, I'd love to just, I want to focus this whole season on what is reality in the realm of faith, culture, life therapy, religion, if you're in a religion versus a faith. Yeah. Just those what is our reality? Because I think even as you talk about group, it's like what is the reality for that group of people for accessing care? So that's the overall season theme.Speaker 2 (05:00):Okay.Speaker 1 (05:02):How does that sound for you?Speaker 2 (05:03):That sounds great.Speaker 1 (05:04):Yeah. I know you have a lot of thoughts,Speaker 2 (05:07):But we do good bouncing off each other's thoughts. Me and you were good.Speaker 1 (05:13):So tell me how you started your own business.Speaker 2 (05:16):That's a good question. There's probably a long answer and a short answer. The long one is that I went and got a master's in marriage and family from a seminary 20 plus years ago, and by the time I finished my degree, I chose to go back to being a full-time attorney. And there's a story there, as there always is, that has to do with me almost being kicked out of theSpeaker 3 (05:55):ProgramSpeaker 2 (05:56):Because someone lodged a complaint against me as a person. The stated reason behind the claim was that my disability was a distraction to clients,(06:09):And I was absolutely undone and totally shredded, all just completely undone by the entire ordeal experience, all of it. It just really undid me in a way that I don't know if I could have put the pieces together then, but I think that played a huge part in me going, I'm going to go back to my original career, which was being an attorney, and I will put this down and I don't know. And so it's 20 plus years later, I still have that whatever was the inclination inside of me that made me say, this work is the kind of work I want to do is still there. And so I think this time around I felt empowered, I felt supported. I felt like I had people and community around me, people like you and lots of people that was like, I can actually do this, and I don't necessarily need the permission of an institution or the rubber stamp of another person to actually take what I have learned about living life and offer it to someone else. So I find myself now the owner and practitioner of solid foundation story Coaching, and we're going to see where the Lord leads and we're going to see where we end up.Speaker 1 (07:38):Okay. When in any moment, I might have to hop off here, you said nine 10 to nine 15, but what do you imagine then for your first offerings? I know you jumped in a little bit at the beginning and we kind of touched on it, but what are your first, what's your desire? What are you trying to offer?Speaker 2 (08:00):That's a good confusion too. I think a couple of things. I come from a very conservative evangelical Christian background that is also, there's these parallel roots in my background that are rooted in the black church. And every once in a while I can feel my evangelical why and what and why, and what I think the short answer is just care. You asked me what do you want to offer? And that I think my answer is care for a lot of reasons. When I look at my own story and my own life and my own path, there are lots of ways and places where I can identify. I didn't have the care that I needed. I didn't have the support that I needed to get where I wanted to go, sort of maybe unscathed, maybe in the shortest path possible with the least amount of obstacles as a woman, as a person of color, as a black American woman in the church, in as a person with a disability, all kinds of ways in which there were places in ways that I needed care that I didn't get. And even with all that being said, once, twice, maybe three times the exact right care at the exact right moment from the person who was capable and willing to give it, and it only takes one person at just the right time to offer just a few minutes of care and what is impossible becomes possible,(10:01):And what is too painful to breathe through becomes something that you can now face head on. So I think in some way, maybe it's paying forward what those people who offered me care gave to me, and now it's my chance to give it back.Rebecca (10:37):Right? Yeah. I mean, if I were going to go for the obvious, the things that we are most comfortable talking about at this moment in our country's history, to women who have faced misogyny in its most simplistic and its most complex and twisted ways to black folks and all that we have faced and struggled through to people of color. There are all kinds of ways in which out of my own story, there are corners that I recognize. And what do I mean by that, right? I have lived my life as an African-American woman, and so there are corners in life that I have come to recognize. That moment when you recognize that somehow this moment, which should be simple and just human has become racialized, and you catch it by a glance, a look, a silence that lasts too long, and you go like, oh, I know exactly where I am.(11:53):I may not know the person in front of me, but I know people like them, and this experience begins to feel familiar, and I know what this corner looks like, and I know what it sounds like, and I know where the dip in the sidewalk is, and I know where there's this pothole that if you step in it the wrong way, you're going to twist your ankle. I know exactly how long you have to cross the street before that flashing red hand comes up. The ways in which, because you've been here before because you've struggled in a familiar moment, you know what it looks like and sounds like and feels like,(12:33):And because it is familiar, then perhaps you can offer something of wisdom or kindness to someone who's new to that corner who doesn't quite know how to navigate it. So I can say that about being black, about being a woman. There are all kinds of things in my own story that have made these corners familiar to me. So yes to all of those things, all of those kinds of people, that there's something I have in common with the parallels of their story that I can say, Hey, I know this corner and I have a flashlight and I can shine my light in front of your path so you can take another step.Danielle (13:17):How do you feel in your body as you say that?Rebecca (13:22):I feel good. It feels like me. You say, how do you feel in your body? Why would you ask that question? What do we mean by that? Which is part of this work, which is being able to recognize when I'm comfortable in my own skin and when I'm not, and being able to recognize why that might be true in any given moment. And so this part feels good to me. It feels like steps I was trying to take 20 years ago that got hijacked and sidetracked by what happened to me in grad school. And it feels like work that I was meant to do because of the corners that I know. So I feel good. I can breathe deep.Danielle (14:12):How do you know when you feel good? What tells you you're feeling goodRebecca (14:16):For me? That I can take a full deep breath. I have come to recognize that shallow breathing means I am not comfortable, so I can take a deep breath and it doesn't feel restricted to me that that's probably, for me, the most notable thing is to say that. And because I am not doing a lot of self editing, I feel okay saying what I have say. I don't have a lot of self-talk of like, Ooh, don't say that or don't say that. Yeah,Danielle (14:57):Which feels like something you can give your participants. I think I mentioned to you, I really wanted to hear about what you're up to business, but it really feels to me like a special kind of work in this season. And I know I mentioned, I was like, well, what's the reality of this season? Could you speak about the intersection of your work and what you see as the reality of our current climate?Rebecca (15:29):So when you first said that to me, my first reaction is go like, oh, I know what my reality is as a black woman, as a mother of two kids, as somebody that lives a mile from where the first enslaved Africans set foot on us soil. I have a very clear sense of my reality, but I'm also going like, and I'm sitting across from you, Danielle, who I know in this moment is living a very different reality as a Latino woman. And so the one thing, or sort of the second thought that comes to my mind after my first reaction, I know what my reality is, is something that I learned recently. I did a webinar and I moderated a panel, and one of the individuals on the panel is a Latino pastor. I'll call him Pastor Carlos. And one of the things that he said to me is that if my truth in any given moment is crafted at the expense of another human, my truth cannot be the absolute truth.Yeah. Now I'm paraphrasing a little bit. So Pastor Carlos, if you hear this, and please forgive me for the paraphrase, but what settled in me from his remarks is that if my truth in any given moment comes at the expense of another person, my truth cannot stand as the absolute truth. And he went on to say something of truth must always be defined in the context of community that we cannot discern what is reality, if you will, in a given moment without having that discussion and framing those contours in the context of community and connectedness to other people. So I could tell you my truth as a black American woman in 2025, and I already know, I know my sense of what is true in my world is going to look and sound and feel different than what is true for you in this moment. Right?Danielle (18:03):Talking about reality, I feel that even despite our different truths, you and I find ourselves touching ground like physical ground, touching energy, spirituality in the same way, not thinking the same. I don't mean that, but living in a space where you and I can connect and affirm one another's actual experiences in the world, actual day to day. I can tell you about a neighbor, you could tell me about work or one of your kids, and there's a sense that you haven't lived that exact, you're not with me in my house, I'm not with your kid in their school, but there's a sense that we can touch into a reality. We're in the ground somewhere together. So I'm wondering, what do you think makes that possible for us to share that space?Rebecca (18:57):I mean, it might be I part the willingness to share, and I don't mean, well, maybe I mean that in both senses of the word, the willingness to be shared in terms of vulnerable, I'm willing to tell you. And so when you ask me, Hey, how are you? When I say, Hey, Danielle, what's up with you? It's more than just the flippant, oh, I'm good. I'm cool. Right? It is this intentional move to slow down for 60 seconds or 60 minutes and go like, here's really happening with me.(19:38):And the other sort of piece of that, when I say the word share, I mean the willingness for there to be a little wiggle room in what I understand to be true. And that's not to say that I will take your truth and replace it with mine and obliterate my experience, not suggesting that I'm saying that my truth and your truth are going to butt up against each other and in the place where they touch, what do we do with that friction? Does that friction become a point of contention, a point of disagreement, a point of anger, of judgment where I villainize you and demonize you and other you? Or does that place where my truth and your truth rub up against each other? Does that become a place of learning? Does that become a place of flexibility of saying like, huh, I never thought about it the way you thought about it. Say more. And my experience between you and I is that there has been a willingness for years to go. What do you know about the world that I don't know? What do you see that I don't see? And how does your perspective actually alter if even just a little bit what I believe or know to be true of the world?Danielle (21:04):Yes, I agree with you. I think we find ourselves in a time though where the sharing of our reality feels unique, where groups, even groups, we would call them bipoc or black, indigenous people of color. You even see skirmishes between groups. And so I think it's laid in one with so much fear. Number two, with so much hypervigilance. And again, I'm not saying none of those things aren't warranted, but I think a group like yours or therapy or somatic work hopefully opens us up to be able to see the humanity of another person.That make sense or what do you thinking when I sayRebecca (21:49):No, it does. When you were talking about in this moment, it feels unique for groups to kind of share their experience. It caused me to kind of think about why is that right? And I don't think that's an accident. I don't think it is a coincidence. I think that there are powers that are crafting these sort of larger narratives that suggest that we have to be at odds with each other, that there isn't a way for us to see each other and recognize one another's humanity without there being this catastrophic threat to my own humanity. And I think part of why it feels so unique in this moment is because I think we're having to do some pretty significant work to fight against that larger narrative that would suggest that we can't be friends, that we must be enemies.Danielle(22:49):Yeah. What do you feel as you say that? I mean, when you say that I feel like I want to cry, I want to be angry, I want to be choked up, and those are all familiar for me. They're familiar for me.Rebecca (23:08):Well, mostly I feel a kind of loss. And what do I mean by that? I saw this clip on Instagram recently where it's a family. They're probably white, Caucasian American family sitting down to dinner at a table, the table's full of food,(23:33):And there's a bowl of strawberries on the table, which in my house during this time of year, there's forever. There's always strawberries in my house anyway. And so somebody says the blessing over the food, dear God, thank you for the food and the hands that prepared it, this sort of common blessing that is also an everyday occurrence at my house. Literally the words, God bless the food and the hands that prepared it. And then it cuts, the video cuts from the scene of this family, it tucked away safely in their kitchen to a migrant worker in a strawberry field who is being pursued by ice agents. And he says, you're welcome very much for the strawberries. And then the video ends that makes me want to cry, and it makes me think of you. And because that's not a thought I ever thought about when my kids pray, thank you for the hands that prepared it. The thought that went through my mind is like they're praying for me as the mom who cooked the food, who washed the strawberries and sliced them and put them in a bowl and set them on the table, never occurred to me until I saw that video I about the person who picked the strawberries and placed them in the container that found its way to my grocery store that found its way to my kitchen table.(25:08):And so now I wonder, what else do I not know? What else have I missed my entire life? What else did I not catch? And what does that mean for this moment in history when there are literally ice checkpoints in the city where I live?Danielle (25:39):I think to survive this moment and what I hear from my people, we have to take ourselves out of the reality of the moment somehow. You still had to get up and you had to make yourself some scrambled eggs. You have to eat your strawberry, you get to eat your strawberry. We're both at work today, et cetera. And whenever we touch into that other space, we have to let the energy process through us or we won't make it. And I think that process allows us to share a reality, the movement of energy allowing it. It's not like we can live in that state all the time, but I think there's certain segments of the population that don't allow anything in. They can't because otherwise it would contradict their view of faith or what's happened.Rebecca (26:31):Yes. Which I think is why I would do something like offer a group a story group, because it is the opportunity to intentionally take a few minutes to create the space to allow that to process through us.Danielle (26:49):So how do people then, Rebecca, find you? They're enjoying this conversation. I want to hear more from her. I,Rebecca (27:01):So I have a website. It's called Rebuilding my foundation.com. I have Instagram solid foundation Coach is my Instagram site. So two me an email, check out the website, join a group,Danielle (27:26):Join a group. What about people like, Hey, I want to hang out with Danielle and Rebecca. What does that look like? Oh,Rebecca (27:35):Yeah. I mean, we're good for at least once a year doing something together. So it sounds like maybe we need to pull a conversation together, maybe a group together, maybe like a two hour seminar workshop space, which we did last year. We did one with a few other of our friends and colleagues called Defiant Resilience. Again, to create this space where people could process what was happening in this moment in history with people who are safe ish, right? We can't ever really promise safety, but we create some sense of parameters that allow you to take a step or two.Danielle (28:25):Rebecca, what do you say to that person? I get these calls all the time. Well, I can't go to therapy. It's too much money. Or I don't know about group. I don't trust people. If people get stuck, what is one way you even got yourself unstuck to even start?Rebecca  (28:40):Oh, yeah, true. First thing I'd say is if group sounds too risky and not going to lie, you and I both know it's risky.(28:55):You're taking some risk. So if that feels too big of a step, guess what? You get to be where you are. And then I'd say try it one-on-one session. Try it once, see how it feels. It is definitely something that I do. I know it's something you do too, where before you would recommend even that somebody step into a group that you might meet with them 2, 3, 4 times one-on-one once or twice to kind of see, this is what it would feel like to talk to another person about things that we have been taught you're not supposed to talk about. And slowly give a person the opportunity to decide for themselves what good care.You're allowed to say, this doesn't feel like good care to me, so I'm not going to do it today or tomorrow. And how amazing it can be to have somebody go, I love that you advocated for yourself, and I absolutely intend to respect that boundary because for so many of us, we either were taught not to set boundaries or when they were set, we have the common experience of them just being obliterated on a regular basis. So even that opportunity to reach out once, try and decide it's not for you, can actually be a moment of empowerment.Danielle (30:25):Yeah, I guess I think when I'm stuck, it's usually like we call some of those sticky points, like trauma points even. So I wouldn't say it doesn't always have to be major, some huge event, but I think there's often been, for me, there's a fear of getting help, whether it's a medical doctor or a therapist or a group or whatever it may be. Or if I have to call the county for something, I'm like, are they going to listen me? Are they going to believe me in all these kinds of situations and will they care what I have to say?Rebecca (30:58):Yeah. I think too, when you say fear of getting help, I go like, oh yeah, ding, ding. Right? I mean, some of that, at least for me, the narrative that can be around black women is that we have it all together at all times. We got it under control. And so the notion that I wouldn't have it under control all by myself, like 24 hours a day, seven days a week, the notion that I would have to request that someone else step in and assist means admitting something about myself that I don't feel comfortable admitting that I've been taught is not where I'm allowed to live. And so that also I think can be part of this fear. I don't know if that's true for you. Tell me how does that land?Danielle (31:49):Yeah, absolutely true. But it goes across so many realms where sometimes advocating for yourself, whether it's getting a question answered at a shoe store, to buying paint, to getting, I don't know, going to the er, the common themes I had my gallbladder recently removed, and two nurses told me that if I had been a man, I would've been seen faster. Because men, they believe men more about abdominal pain, and I think it's because there's maybe more expression by men of what pain is. And I don't know this for sure. I don't have a scientific research behind it, but part of me wondered, is it because my pain was indicated by my blood pressure, not by me telling them that's how they knew it. So I think that's one reason we have to really pay attention to our bodies, and I think wherever we are, we're not used to being believed, or even if someone knows, if they care, again, whether it's from going to pay a parking ticket, so going to the doctor, I just think across the board, people that are female are generally not as welcome to express how they're feeling and what's going on. Just some thoughts.Rebecca (33:11):Yeah. Again, right. It is that part where there's this larger story at play that impacts how we move individually and what we feel like we're permitted to do or not do, say or not say. You and I have talked about this before, that question of will they believe me is a kind of anticipatory intelligenceYou're trying to anticipate how you will be received, how your words will be believed, how your story will be read in any given context, and who has time, your gallbladder. And so I would imagine you're in this excruciating pain and you're having to not only tend to that, but are you going to believe me? Right? And what if the blood pressure indicator had not been there, right?Danielle (34:07):Yeah. Yeah. All of us are different. Okay. Rebecca, I'm going to put all your info in the notes. People are going to light up your phone. They're going to light up your email, and I do believe we'll be doing something collaborative in the future. Absolutely. Yeah. With other co-conspirators.Thank you for joining us today. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for listening to the raw conversations we're having, and I just encourage you to get in conversations with your friends, your family, people around you, people you really disagree with, maybe even people you don't like. Try to hold yourself there. Try to have those conversations. Try to be able to receive the difficult comments. Try to be able to say the difficult things. Let's keep working on moving towards one another.   Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

In Episode 5, Karrie named the first step to healing involves connection with our own story. This week, Karrie is joined by Cathy Loerzel, one of the co-founders of the Allender Center, as well as an author, speaker, and story work coach, to continue the discussion of using story work as a tool for healing and how reconnecting to our story can lead us back to our true self . When do we know we need to look at places in our stories? When behaviors and patterns keep arising that prevent us from being who God wanted us to be. Why can't we just know something happened? Why do we need to go through a story at a granular level? Cathy explains that when trauma becomes embedded, we sometimes need to feel it again with an empathetic witness in order to process out what has been stored in the body. Kathy and Karrie share more about the consequences of stored trauma and how maladaptive behavior is created. We are sharing all of the resources mentioned here if you'd like to learn more: Redeeming Heartache by Dan Allender and Cathy Loerzelhttps://a.co/d/bak3lliWhole Brain Child by Daniel Siegel and Tina Payne Brysonhttps://a.co/d/hA5GQhRThe Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolkhttps://a.co/d/cbNMbzfBrain Talk by David Schnarchhttps://a.co/d/gaK3Z0xTo learn more about the work of Cathy Loerzel visit her on Instagram @cathy.loerzelSacred Interruptions Retreathttps://www.sacredinterruptionretreats.comKarrie's Instagram: @karriescottgarciaKarrie's Website: karriegarcia.comFreedom Movement Instagram: @freedom_movementFreedom Movement Website: wearefm.orgSign up for Freedom Movement Trainings: https://www.wearefm.org/trainingsFind Story Work Retreat info & sign-ups:https://www.karriegarcia.com/work-with-karriePurchase Karrie's book Free & Fully Alive!https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310366445?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_A6200T1AKD7FS2PZ8VA1Book Karrie for Speaking Engagements:https://www.karriegarcia.com/book-karrie Music by Tanya Godsay

What does it take to cultivate real transformation in a faith community? Not just busier programs or better Bible studies, but real change – mind, body, and soul? In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen talk with Petra Malekzadeh, Facilitation Development Manager at the Allender Center, about what it looks like to bring story work into the life of a local church.  Drawing on her years of ministry leadership and her training in Narrative Focused Trauma Care®, Petra shares both the challenges and beauty of inviting people to engage their stories as part of discipleship. Listen in to explore: Why story work belongs at the heart of spiritual formation The importance of leadership buy-in and shared language How to navigate resistance and build trust What becomes possible when vulnerability is honored This conversation invites you to imagine a church where story work isn't a side ministry—it's how we grow into the people God is calling us to be.  

Join Christa for a crucial conversation with Rachel Clinton Chen, MDiv and faculty at The Allender Center, about spiritual abuse and its unique impact on marriages. Rachel brings both professional expertise and Type 2 heart-centered wisdom to this difficult but necessary topic. Discover how spiritual abuse differs from general church hurt, the specific challenges it creates for couples when one spouse's faith is shaken while the other's remains intact, and how partners can support each other's healing without minimizing their experience. Rachel shares insights on rebuilding trust in your own perceptions, navigating intimacy after spiritual trauma, and finding hope for post-traumatic growth. Whether you've experienced spiritual abuse yourself, are supporting someone who has, or want to better understand this critical issue, this conversation offers validation, practical guidance, and hope for the healing journey. Rachel's marriage to Reverend Michael (a beautiful 2-9 pairing) provides unique perspective on how couples can walk through spiritual trauma together while protecting their relationship during vulnerable seasons. Rachel has graciously offered our listeners 20% off The Allender Center's Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course here with code enneagrammarriage20 through December 2025. https://theallendercenter.org/offerings/online-courses/spiritual-abuse-and-healing/ Check out The Allender Center Podcast here, https://theallendercenter.org/category/podcast/ Find other courses and connections at The Allender Center at The Seattle School here: https://theallendercenter.org/ Find Rachel Clinton-Chen on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/rachaelclintonchen/?hl=en Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What do you do when the very place that was supposed to nourish your soul becomes a source of deep harm? In this deeply moving and necessary conversation, therapist, pastor, and trauma specialist Rachael Clinton Chen joins Dr. Alison Cook to talk about the pain of spiritual abuse—and what it looks like to begin healing from it. Whether you've experienced overt harm in a religious setting or carry subtle wounds from spiritual messaging that shaped your identity in unhealthy ways, this episode offers a gentle, powerful invitation toward healing, dignity, and reclaiming your voice. Rachael shares: Her own story of healing from spiritual abuseWhy spiritual pain is often so hard to name How systems of control in churches and families silence women and survivors The importance of embodiment and “coming home to yourself” in healing A theological lens for honoring your anger, grief, and truth If you've ever questioned your worth because of how faith was used against you—or wondered how to hold onto your spirituality while confronting the harm—you're not alone. This episode is full of insight, validation, and hope for your journey.

On this episode: Nate Luau's at Presbyterian Church. Aaron withholds his “arr,” he wants it so bean something. This week, Nate and Aaron interview Gail Stucker. Gail is an Allender Center trained story work coach working with individuals, couples, and groups. She shares her story of finding Jesus in para-church ministries. Gail shares her experiences of “purity culture” not being fireworks, relationship bliss, and all the promises from Ephesians. Discussing that if men don't feel desired, they would rather be mowing the lawn. Gail talks about how her heart changed towards herself and others after seeing others and being seen in story work. And finally, she walks us through how to discuss his and her feelings and needs.Links: Gail StuckerBooks Mentioned: God Loves Sex: An Honest Conversation About Sexual Desire and Holiness The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and DelightSept. 12-14, 2025 Austrian Retreat Nov 7-9, 2025 Santa Fe, NM Samson Summit Nov 7-9, 2025 The Wild & Sacred Journey, Womens RetreatSponsor: Life Works CounselingIf you have thoughts or questions and you'd like the guys to address in upcoming episodes or suggestions for future guests, please drop a note to piratemonkpodcast@gmail.com.The music on this podcast is contributed by members of the Samson Society.For more information on this ministry, please visit samsonsociety.com. Support for the women in our lives who have been impacted by our choices is available at sarahsociety.com.The Pirate Monk Podcast is provided by Samson Society, a ministry of Samson House, a 501(c)3 nonprofit. To enjoy future Pirate Monk podcasts, please consider a contribution to Samson House.   amazon.com The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight [Allender, Dr. Dan B., Call, Dr. Steve] on Amazon.com. FREE shipping on qualifying offers. The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight (148 kB) https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Rooted-Marriage-Cultivating-Intimacy-Healing/dp/1400344468     Samson House Store Samson European Retreat: RAV 47 — Samson House Store 38 hours + 5 meals + 3 Samson meetings + 1 mountain ascent = 47 lives changed forever     Samson House Store 2025 Samson Summit — Samson House Store Join us for an unforgettable weekend to explore your story, deepen your relationships, and live out your story as fully as God intended. When: November 7-9, 2025 Where: Camp Glorieta , a 2,400-acre campus located about 15 miles southeast of Santa Fe, New Mexico Lodging Options Available.        

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme of “Who Are You” with a discussion about identifying and healing from trauma with Jesus with Dr. Dan Allender. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist whose services have focused on marriage, trauma, and sexual abuse for over 47 years. He is also a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Seattle School. Dr. Allender is also the cofounder of The Allender Center, where Dr. Allender’s teaching, training, and writing can help others with a vision of healing and transformation. He has also written several books, including “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” We also heard a new set of Dad jokes during “Ally Thinks It’s Funny.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Every marriage is an ongoing story with its own highs and lows, joys and difficulties. Depending on which season we are in, we may start to see marriage as the best thing that has ever happened to us or the source of our angst. If you've been following our journey for a while, you know that my husband Mark and I share openly about the struggles as well as the victories in our marriage. God has used every obstacle we've encountered to grow us in so many ways.The truth we hope you walk away with today is that marriage is actually our ultimate invitation to grow.  If we allow it, God will use our marriage to shape us into someone who is deeper, healthier, and more rooted in Christ. Our guest believes wholeheartedly that if we are willing to examine the stories of our past that are influencing the present, we can write a new story for the future.Dr. Dan Allender has a long history in the therapy world. As the author of over two dozen books and the founder of The Allender Center, he believes that true healing and restoration occur when we courageously step into our stories of pain.In this episode, you'll hear:The value of vulnerably stepping into each other's pastsWhy it's important to disrupt destructive patternsOne of the key factors to resolve any conflictAnd more!These principles have proven so beneficial in our marriage. We hope this conversation helps you write a new story for your own relationships.Find resources mentioned and more in the show notes: jillsavage.org/dan-allender-248You're invited to our Transform Weekend June 6-8, 2025 or October 17-19, 2025. Learn more and register here.Check out our other resources: Mark and Jill's Marriage Story Marriage Coaching Marriage 2.0 Intensives Speaking Schedule Book Mark and Jill to Speak Online Courses Books Marriage Resources: Infidelity Recovery For Happy Marriages For Hurting Marriages For Marriages Where You're the Only One Wanting to Get Help Mom Resources: New/Preschool Moms Moms with Gradeschoolers Moms with Teens and Tweens Moms with Kids Who Are Launching Empty Nest...

What does it mean to objectify yourself? Sam Jolman explains objectification, why and how we objectify ourselves, and what healing and repentance can look like. Sam Jolman (MA, LPC) is a trauma therapist with over twenty years of experience specializing in men's issues and sexual trauma recovery. His writing flows out of this unique opportunity to help people know and heal their stories, and find greater sexual wholeness and aliveness. He received his master's in counseling from Reformed Theological Seminary and was further trained in Narrative Focused Trauma Care through the Allender Center at The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. Sam lives in Colorado with his wife and three sons. Fun fact: Sam and Drew attend the same church! Learn more at samjolman.comBuy Sam's book: The Sex Talk You Never Got: Reclaiming the Heart of Masculine SexualityWrite a review of The Sex Talk You Never Got: https://amazon.com/review/create-review?&asin=1400243904Listen to Sam's first Husband Material interview: It's Good To Be Aroused (with Sam Jolman)Support the showTake the Husband Material Journey... Step 1: Listen to this podcast or watch on YouTube Step 2: Join the private Husband Material Community Step 3: Take the free mini-course: How To Outgrow Porn Step 4: Try the all-in-one program: Husband Material Academy Thanks for listening!

If you've experienced the healing power of engaging your story—through a Story Workshop, Recovery Week, Narrative Focused Trauma Care® (NFTC) training, or a Story Group in your own context—you may have found yourself wondering: Why does this work feel so deeply transformative? What's actually happening here? In this special episode, we're pulling back the curtain on a groundbreaking, multi-year research project that's beginning to explore those very questions. Dr. Danielle Zurinsky of the Allender Center and Dr. David C. Wang of Fuller Theological Seminary join Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to share what they're discovering so far—and why this moment matters. This work is part of a broader initiative we're calling the NFTC Model Research & Publication Project. It's an ambitious, long-term effort to clarify, codify, and formally articulate the core framework of Narrative Focused Trauma Care. Grounded in the decades-long work of Dr. Dan Allender, this project is about more than research—it's about building a foundation that allows this healing model to be recognized, trusted, and shared more widely. In today's conversation, we're letting you in early—before the publications—because we want this process to be rooted in relationship, transparency, and shared vision. Whether you're a practitioner, a past participant, or someone simply curious about the impact of story, you're part of this unfolding journey, too! And if your own healing has been shaped by story engagement with NFTC, this is a chance to be part of something bigger. You can support the continuation of this growing body of research—fueling everything from the team of scholars and writers to expanded training opportunities and broader recognition in therapeutic, academic, and spiritual spaces. You can visit theallendercenter.org/give to contribute at any financial level. We are currently fundraising to support the next phase of this project's continuation. Your contribution will help ensure this work continues—so more people, families, and communities can experience the deep transformation that comes through engaging their stories with courage and care. To learn more about NFTC, visit theallendercenter.org/nftc

Sometimes, when you feel stuck, and overwhelmed, you don't need more and better information. Sometimes you need to engage your story, to better understand how the past influences the present. That's what we talk about with Adam Young. Adam Young is a therapist who focuses on trauma and abuse, and the host of The Place We Find Ourselves podcast. He currently serves as a Fellow and Instructor at The Allender Center.  Adam is the author of Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Story with Kindness Changes Everything.Also, check out his mini-conference hosted each month. Adam explains the concept of story work as a therapeutic and spiritual practice that helps individuals understand how their past experiences shape their present. He emphasizes the importance of approaching one's story with kindness and the role of attachment, neuroscience, and spirituality in the healing process. They also delve into the significance of exploring familial, cultural, and spiritual narratives to achieve wholeness and integration, or 'Shalom.' Additionally, Adam provides insights into addressing common resistance to story work and the importance of leaders engaging in this process to foster supportive community environments. He concludes by sharing information about his ongoing mini-conference series aimed at helping individuals delve deeper into their stories.Stay Connected: Check out our Attaching to God 6-Week Learning Cohort. Join the Embodied Faith community to stay connected and get posts, episodes, & resources. Support the podcast with a one-time or regular gift (to keep this ad-free without breaking the Holsclaw's bank).

Today Dan and Rachael welcome longtime friend and Allender Center Facilitator Adam Young, LCSW, to the podcast for a deeply moving conversation about the unexpected plot twists that shape our stories—and how they can become sacred invitations to connection, healing, and transformation.   Adam, who is a counselor, author, podcast host, and an NFTC Certified Instructor & Facilitator with the Allender Center, joins us to talk about his new book, Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything.   He vulnerably shares about a life-altering moment that brought him to his knees, and ultimately, into deeper communion with God. Together, Adam, Dan, and Rachael explore why revisiting the painful parts of our stories isn't a detour from growth, but the very path that helps us make sense of who we are today and imagine who we're becoming. Whether it's the story of our family of origin, our bodies, our culture, or our relationship with God, Adam offers practical and grace-filled ways to approach our histories with kindness instead of shame. Join us for today's conversation to consider how you can engage your past with even more courage and kindness—and to discover freedom, healing, and hope along the way. If you haven't already, don't wait - order your copy of Adam Young's new book, Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything:  https://adamyoungcounseling.com/ or https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540904695/  ==== More Resources from the Allender Center: Free Guided Story Exercise – Take the next step in engaging your story with a free guided reflection and writing resource: theallendercenter.org/story Join a Story Workshop – Go deeper in your healing journey with others at an upcoming Story Workshop: theallendercenter.org/workshops    

Your past is not truly past; it is still impacting you today. In this episode, Dr. Carol talks with trauma therapist and licensed clinical social worker Adam Young to explore how making sense of your story can lead to freedom, meaning, and transformation. We unpack the ways your past still holds power over you—often in ways you don't even realize—and why resistance to facing your story is so common. Adam Young shares insights into how memory works, why certain moments from your past feel “stuck,” and how your brain and body hold onto experiences and bring them into the present. You'll especially appreciate our discussion of God's role in your story - not as a spiritual bypass, but as a fully honest and yet deeply kind way of finding your relationship with God in your story. Connect with Adam Young on his counseling website, on Facebook, or Instagram. Learn more about the Allender Center. Find Adam's book Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything Find out more about Dr. Carol Ministries in-person intensives - a safe place to unpack your story and experience Jesus coming into your story to bring healing and wholeness. Dr. Carol loves to hear from you. You can send a confidential message here.

Today is part 2 of the conversation with Rachel Clinton Chen about healing from spiritual abuse. Rachel discusses ways our cultural values have influenced leadership in churches, often valuing charisma over genuine pastoral care, which sometimes leads to spiritual abuse. We also discuss what to do in the case of people unintentionally contributing to spiritual abuse - sometimes due to their own unresolved trauma. Love and Humility have to be a part of the conversation! Finally we talk about the new online course available through the Allender Center. See the links below for significant resources available for you. RESOURCES:Find out more about the Allender Center at the Seattle School of Theology and Psychology with a link to their podcast  HERESpiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course -  This six-lesson course, complete with reflective practices and deep dive panel discussions, helps you engage your body, mind, and spirit as you unpack the harm caused by spiritual abuse.Story Workshop for Spiritual Abuse & Healing - Our mission at The Allender Center is rooted in the belief that our stories are best understood and healed when we share them with others. We're honored to introduce the new Story Workshop for Spiritual Abuse & Healing—an immersive experience designed to guide you through the complex process of healing from religious trauma and spiritual harm and reclaiming your faith. This is a three day virtual workshop held May 16-18, including large group teaching and small group story work with a seasoned facilitator. Free Checklist: How to identify the signs of spiritual abuseContact Cyndi Parker through Narrative of Place.Join Cyndi Parker's  Patreon Team!

Today we are talking about the sticky subject of spiritual abuse in the church. To lead us on the journey is Rachael Clinton Chen. Rachael is devoted to addressing the harm of abuse – especially spiritual abuse – at the intersection of trauma, healing, embodiment and spiritual formation. She leads the Story Workshop for Spiritual Abuse & Healing and recently developed the Allender Center's Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course, inviting survivors of spiritual abuse to journey together towards healing and reclamation.RESOURCES:Find out more about the Allender Center at the Seattle School of Theology and Psychology with a link to their podcast  HERESpiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course -  This six-lesson course, complete with reflective practices and deep dive panel discussions, helps you engage your body, mind, and spirit as you unpack the harm caused by spiritual abuse.Story Workshop for Spiritual Abuse & Healing - Our mission at The Allender Center is rooted in the belief that our stories are best understood and healed when we share them with others. We're honored to introduce the new Story Workshop for Spiritual Abuse & Healing—an immersive experience designed to guide you through the complex process of healing from religious trauma and spiritual harm and reclaiming your faith. This is a three day virtual workshop held May 16-18, including large group teaching and small group story work with a seasoned facilitator. Free Checklist: How to identify the signs of spiritual abuseContact Cyndi Parker through Narrative of Place.Join Cyndi Parker's  Patreon Team!

Take a brief survey for the show to influence future episodes.Note: I have listeners of all faith backgrounds that listen to the podcast. This episode is coming from a christian perspective so if that's something that doesn't fit what you're looking for, check out the other episode that dropped this week or join me back here next Tuesday for a conversation that you don't want to miss!Every relationship has its highs and lows, but we often don't know what to do with our "lows," or how we ended up there. In today's conversation, I sit down with therapist and author Dan Allender to discuss his new book, Deep-Rooted Marriage. He shares how deeper intimacy can be a source of healing and joy. More often than not, the hidden forces fueling conflict and disconnection stem from the unresolved stories of our past. But if we're willing to examine them with honesty and courage, we can begin to rewrite a new, more hopeful story for the future.Links Discussed in This Episode |Podcast Episode: Diary of a CEO with Paul BrunsonConnect with Dan:InstagramWebsiteBook: The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight About Dan|Dr. Dan Allender is a pioneer of a unique and innovative approach to trauma and abuse therapy. He earned a master of divinity from Westminster Theological Seminary, followed by a Ph.D. in counseling psychology from Michigan State University. Dan served on the faculty of the Biblical Counseling Department at Grace Theological Seminary from 1983 to 1989 and at Colorado Christian University from 1989 to 1997. In 1997, Dan and a cadre of others founded the Seattle School of Theology & Psychology, where he served as president from 2002 to 2009. In 2011, he established The Allender Center with the mission of fostering healing and equipping leaders and mental health professionals with the courage to confront others' stories of harm. Dan has authored or co-authored over two dozen books and continues to serve as a professor of counseling psychology at the Seattle School.Episode Sponsors |The Minimalist Moms Podcast would not be possible without the support of weekly sponsors. Choosing brands that I believe in is important to me. I only want to recommend brands that I believe may help you in your daily life. As always, never feel pressured into buying anything. Remember: if you don't need it, it's not a good deal!Enjoy the Podcast?Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your fellow mothers so that they can be inspired to think more and do with less. Order (or review) my book, Minimalist Moms: Living & Parenting With Simplicity.Questions |You can contact me through my website, find me on Instagram, Pinterest or like The Minimalist Moms Page on Facebook.Checkout the Minimalist Moms Podcast storefront for recommendations from Diane.If you've been struggling with motivation to declutter or work through bad habits that keep you stuck, I'd love to help you achieve your goals! We'll work together (locally or virtually) to discover what areas in your life are high priority to get you feeling less overwhelmed right away.  For more info on my processes, fees, and availability please contact!Our Sponsors:* Check out Armoire and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Avocado Green Mattress: https://www.avocadogreenmattress.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/minimalist-moms-podcast2093/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender, a pioneer in Christian counseling and founder of The Allender Center, joins Dr. Alison to explore the raw, real work of marriage, trauma, and intimacy. Known for his groundbreaking book, The Wounded Heart, Allender has spent decades teaching how personal trauma shapes relationships. And on the very day of his 48th wedding anniversary, he openly shares how these dynamics continue to play out in his own marriage. In this episode, we dive into: * The surprising (and hilarious) fight he and his wife had the night before their anniversary * Why marriage is both heaven and hell—and why that's actually a good thing * The childhood wounds that have impacted his own marriage * Why logic doesn't help when we get emotionally hijacked * How to fight well and grow through conflict Check out The Deep Rooted Marriage anywhere books are sold. Have a question for Dr. Alison? Leave it here. Find a full transcript and list of resources from this episode here. If you enjoyed this episode, you'll love: Episode 137: The Mindful Marriage—Overcome Pain Cycles and Discover the Surprising Secret to Lasting Love with Ron and Nan Deal Thanks to our sponsors: Go to Quince.com/bestofyou for 365-day returns, plus free shipping on your order! Go to AquaTru.com and enter code BESTOFYOU at checkout to get 20% OFF any AquaTru purifier! Contact Restoring the Soul today and learn how their Intensive Counseling Process can jump start your journey to the place you want to be. As a special gift for The Best of You podcast listeners, download their free pdf "5 Ways Unresolved Trauma May Be Derailing Your Relationship." Turn back time on the appearance of your skin with Purity Woods's Age-Defying Dream Cream. Go to puritywoods.com/BESTOFYOU or enter code BESTOFYOU at checkout for an additional 10% off your first order. Music by Andy Luiten Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Adam Young is a trauma therapist and the host of The Place We Find Ourselves podcast. He is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) with master's degrees in social work and divinity. Adam regularly speaks at conferences and currently serves as an instructor and facilitator with The Allender Center in addition to his private practice. He lives in Fort Collins, Colorado, with his wife and two children. His new book, Make Sense of Your Story, is available now. Key Topics: - What it means to engage in “story work” and why it matters - How to feel your unfelt feelings - The concept of your body as a “truth-teller” and how not to dismiss the information it gives you - How to dig into what your body is telling you - Why Christians are uncomfortable with the idea of listening to their bodies - The problem with minimizing and spiritualizing your story - Understanding your story with God - Moving towards shame instead of away from it - How making sense of your story impacts all your relationships Learn more about Adam at https://adamyoungcounseling.com/ and buy his new book wherever books are sold. Get Erin's FREE Food is Mood Guide here: https://mailchi.mp/055b20577ebc/food-is-mood-guide

Today Heather Creekmore interviews an author, therapist, and pioneer in the trauma and abuse world, Dr. Dan Allender. As we wrap up our month-long series on marriage, today Heather and Dr. Allender explore how our past traumas impact our marriage, how our hurts from our family of origin may have actually impacted who we chose to marry, and how we can help our spouses heal and name their own woundings so that together we can have more than just a "good marriage," we instead can grow together as a couple who is able to honor and delight in each other.

In this powerful conversation, Rachael Clinton Chen, a trauma care practitioner and co-host of The Allender Center Podcast, joins us to discuss the deep impact of spiritual abuse and the church's responsibility in creating safe spaces for healing. With a heart devoted to addressing the harm of abuse, especially spiritual abuse, Rachael shares her insights on trauma, embodiment, and spiritual formation, and how the church can be a place of reclamation rather than harm. As a contemplative charismatic and advocate for justice, mercy, and humility, Rachael offers wisdom on navigating the complexities of healing in faith communities. Join us as we explore the intersection of trauma and spirituality, and discover how we can begin to rebuild the church as a sanctuary for true restoration. In addition to exploring the healing potential within faith communities, Rachael highlights the critical role that churches can play in cultivating trauma-informed spaces by first acknowledging the realities of abuse. By recognizing the power differences that often exist between leaders and congregants, churches can begin to dismantle harmful structures and create more equitable environments. Rachael emphasizes that addressing abuse openly, offering validation to survivors, and empowering individuals to reclaim their voice are essential steps in transforming communities. By fostering humility, transparency, and a deep commitment to justice, churches can become spaces where trauma is not only acknowledged, but where healing is actively nurtured, restoring trust and hope in the process. For more information on Rachael's work, check out the Allender Center's Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course. Also check out the Allender Center Podcast or Rachel's bio!

Today, we dive into the power of reckoning with our personal stories - the formative experiences and wounds from our past that shape who we are today, often in ways we don't fully understand. My guest, Adam Young, has spent years helping people make sense of their stories, to find freedom and wholeness. As Adam shares, the truth is, our past isn't just the past - it's deeply woven into our present. The feelings, fears, and patterns we carry from childhood can profoundly impact our relationships, our mental health, even our sense of calling. But the good news is, our brains have an incredible capacity for change and integration. Through curiosity, kindness, and the support of others, we can begin to uncover the hidden narratives that have been subtly steering the course of our lives. And in doing so, we open the door to a deeper, truer version of ourselves - one that can finally step into the unique purpose we were made for. This is a conversation about the transformative power of reckoning with our stories, no matter how messy or painful they may be. It's about finding the courage to face our past, so we can step more fully into our future. So join us as we make sense of our stories. Adam Young is a therapist who focuses on trauma and abuse, and the host of The Place We Find Ourselves podcast. Adam is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) with a Master degree in Social Work (Virginia Commonwealth University) and Divinity (Emory University). Adam is the author of Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Story with Kindness Changes Everything. He currently serves as a Fellow and Instructor at The Allender Center. Adam lives in Fort Collins, CO, with his wife and two children.Adam's Book:Make Sense of Your StoryAdam's Recommendations:The Prophetic ImaginationGenesis: InterpretationSubscribe to Our Substack: Shifting CultureConnect with Joshua: jjohnson@allnations.usGo to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.Follow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Threads, Bluesky or Email jjohnson@allnations.us, so we can get your creative project off the ground! Email jjohnson@allnations.us, so we can get your creative project off the ground! Faith That Challenges. Conversations that Matter. Laughs included. Subscribe Now!Breaking down faith, culture & big questions - a mix of humor with real spiritual growth. Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify Faith That Challenges. Conversations that Matter. Laughs included. Subscribe Now!Breaking down faith, culture & big questions - a mix of humor with real spiritual growth. Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifySupport the show

"Marriage can be heaven, and marriage can be hell." -Dan Allender Anyone who is married knows that marriage can reach the extremes of human experience, and sometimes even in the same day. It's the lab in which we grow personally, and where we grow together. It's also the place where everything can fall apart. Today Dan Allender of The Allender Center joins us to explore the transformative power of marriage, particularly in midlife. He talks about the deep work of understanding one another's stories, the role of trauma in relationships (even if you feel like you don't have any), and the necessity of dealing with emotional triggers. Dan is both funny and deeply inspiring. He is an expert at the top of his field, and also the first one to reveal and share what he is experiencing in his own imperfect marriage. You will gain insight into the complexities of relationships, the importance of change-agents in marriage, the dynamics of conflict resolution, and come to a fresh understanding of how fighting for marriage is deeply spiritual work. SOME THINGS YOU HEARD ON THE SHOW: The Deeply Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Healing, Intimacy, and Delight by Dan Allender and Steve Call Unwanted by Jay Stringer website-Dan Allender Quotes from the episode: 35% of divorces are "gray divorces," meaning they involve couples 50 years of ago and older. Our brains have the power to change, but only by engagement deeply within what we'll call our right hemisphere, our emotional portions. If there is not a fabric of forgiveness, then we are in deep waters without a paddle. Difference is where almost all conflict begins. 70 % of the conflict in marriage does not have a right answer. You grow in trust by the capacity to deal with conflict, not to resolve, but to a deepened understanding. And to a deepened understanding allows us to allow difference to continue to occur.but without either the fear or the judgment that's often there. I hope the sense of having work to do is kind of like, I get to put my foot on the neck of evil here. Hell no, I do not want something that has lingered in my body and my heart and my mind to continue to shape something of how I respond to the future. QUESTIONS TO HELP YOU RISE What part of your story can you re-engage with your spouse in order to work toward greater healing? Hint: think about what triggers you. What part of your spouse's story can you re-engage? If 70% of all arguments don't have a "right answer," how can you adjust how you've been approaching a conflict area with your spouse? The change agents Dan lists in his book are humility, honesty, kindness, curiosity, defiance, and an intention to bless. What one is most needed right now in your marriage? How can you "stand on the neck of evil" and push past a particularly difficult part of your marriage? LET'S CONNECT! Did you like this episode? Let us know and leave a review on itunes or share it with a friend. Or message us on Instagram – we'd love to hear from you! Get the Daily Dozen Checklist -12 habits that will immediately make you happier and healthier

Today, on Karl and Crew, we went straight to the root of our weekly theme of marriage, with a discussion about looking beyond the surface when addressing issues within your marriage. Do you and your spouse ever have explosive arguments over little things? Those little things may be rooted in a deeper issue that hasn’t been openly addressed or resolved. God wants us to go to the root of the problem and create a new foundation with Him so that healing can begin. Dr. Dan Allender joined the conversation as he provided insight into how those small arguments stem from deeper and bigger issues. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist who focuses on marriage, trauma and sexual abuse. Dr. Allender also is the co-founder of The Allender Center and an author. He has authored several books including, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we went straight to the root of our weekly theme of marriage, with a discussion about looking beyond the surface when addressing issues within your marriage. Do you and your spouse ever have explosive arguments over little things? Those little things may be rooted in a deeper issue that hasn’t been openly addressed or resolved. God wants us to go to the root of the problem and create a new foundation with Him so that healing can begin. Dr. Dan Allender joined the conversation as he provided insight into how those small arguments stem from deeper and bigger issues. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist who focuses on marriage, trauma and sexual abuse. Dr. Allender also is the co-founder of The Allender Center and an author. He has authored several books including, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we went straight to the root of our weekly theme of marriage, with a discussion about looking beyond the surface when addressing issues within your marriage. Do you and your spouse ever have explosive arguments over little things? Those little things may be rooted in a deeper issue that hasn’t been openly addressed or resolved. God wants us to go to the root of the problem and create a new foundation with Him so that healing can begin. Dr. Dan Allender joined the conversation as he provided insight into how those small arguments stem from deeper and bigger issues. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist who focuses on marriage, trauma and sexual abuse. Dr. Allender also is the co-founder of The Allender Center and an author. He has authored several books including, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we went straight to the root of our weekly theme of marriage, with a discussion about looking beyond the surface when addressing issues within your marriage. Do you and your spouse ever have explosive arguments over little things? Those little things may be rooted in a deeper issue that hasn’t been openly addressed or resolved. God wants us to go to the root of the problem and create a new foundation with Him so that healing can begin. Dr. Dan Allender joined the conversation as he provided insight into how those small arguments stem from deeper and bigger issues. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist who focuses on marriage, trauma and sexual abuse. Dr. Allender also is the co-founder of The Allender Center and an author. He has authored several books including, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we went straight to the root of our weekly theme of marriage, with a discussion about looking beyond the surface when addressing issues within your marriage. Do you and your spouse ever have explosive arguments over little things? Those little things may be rooted in a deeper issue that hasn’t been openly addressed or resolved. God wants us to go to the root of the problem and create a new foundation with Him so that healing can begin. Dr. Dan Allender joined the conversation as he provided insight into how those small arguments stem from deeper and bigger issues. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist who focuses on marriage, trauma and sexual abuse. Dr. Allender also is the co-founder of The Allender Center and an author. He has authored several books including, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we went straight to the root of our weekly theme of marriage, with a discussion about looking beyond the surface when addressing issues within your marriage. Do you and your spouse ever have explosive arguments over little things? Those little things may be rooted in a deeper issue that hasn’t been openly addressed or resolved. God wants us to go to the root of the problem and create a new foundation with Him so that healing can begin. Dr. Dan Allender joined the conversation as he provided insight into how those small arguments stem from deeper and bigger issues. Dr. Allender is a counseling psychologist who focuses on marriage, trauma and sexual abuse. Dr. Allender also is the co-founder of The Allender Center and an author. He has authored several books including, “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on Karl and Crew Showcast.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

At the Allender Center, we love stories—and this week, we're honored to hear from Charlie Peacock as he shares his own. His brand-new memoir, “Roots and Rhythm: A Life in Music,” offers a deep dive into the journey that shaped his legendary career. A Grammy Award-winning music producer whose work has shaped the sound of multiple generations, Charlie opens up about his journey through music, his creative process, and the stories behind his life — and the stories he's chosen to tell in his memoir.  Join us for a conversation that explores artistry, spirituality, identity, and the cost of seeing the world in a different way. You can find Charlie Peacock's latest book, Roots & Rhythm: A Life in Music, wherever books are sold.   === Find the transcript for this episode and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast

Neither you nor your spouse entered marriage as a blank slate. Most married people don't realize the extent to which the past experiences of both you and your spouse, especially trauma, form the foundation of most of the conflict between you. Dr. Carol talks with Dr. Steve Call, clinical psychologist, author, and graduate professor at the Allender Center, about dealing with the roots defining your marriage. Your past stories can become the fruitful ground from which redemption and true intimacy can grow. Find out more about Dr. Steve Call at the Reconnect Institute, on Facebook, or Instagram. Get the book Steve coauthored with Dr. Dan Allender The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight Check out our brand new Sexpectations online course. Discover your pathway to sexual wholeness as you explore your sexual story. Dr. Carol loves to hear from you. You can send a confidential message here.

In this insightful episode, we sit down with renowned psychologist and author Dr. Dan Allender to explore the complexities of anxiety—its roots, its impact, and the path to healing. Drawing on his vast experience and wisdom, Dr. Allender shares transformative insights on understanding anxiety, confronting its emotional and spiritual dimensions, and discovering ways to break free from its grip. Whether you're struggling with anxiety or simply seeking a deeper understanding, this conversation offers valuable tools for navigating life's challenges with courage and hope. Dr. Dan Allender is a renowned author, speaker, and therapist known for his work in the field of trauma, emotional healing, and Christian counseling. As a pioneering figure in the integration of psychology and theology, Dr. Allender has focused much of his research and writing on how individuals can heal from deep emotional wounds and trauma through understanding their story and the redemptive power of God.Dr. Allender founded The Allender Center at The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology, where he trains professionals and offers workshops aimed at helping people understand the impact of their past experiences on their present lives. His work emphasizes the importance of telling one's story, recognizing the ways in which shame, brokenness, and sin affect mental health, and finding freedom and healing through Christ. For more questions and inquiries, reach us at reachus@amcc.org or visit us on our website at nativeexiles.com.

Becky Allender sits down with Rachael Clinton Chen for a one-on-one conversation. Becky reflects on how she and Dan have experienced profound transformation in their marriage, particularly since the Allender Center was founded in 2011. It was during this time that they began practicing the fundamentals of story engagement within their own relationship—a journey that not only changed their lives but also inspired the Marriage offerings at the Allender Center.  No matter what season you're in—whether your relationship is new or you've been married for decades like Dan and Becky—there's always something new to learn. Every step offers a chance to meet one another with greater kindness, compassion, and understanding. Next week, Dan will rejoin the podcast conversation, but today, we hope you enjoy this episode with Becky and Rachael as they share their wisdom and reflections on marriage and connection. Listener Resources: Check out Hidden in Plain Sight by Becky Allender. Read some of Becky Allender's blog posts. Pre-order your copy of The Deep-Rooted Marriage by Dan Allender and Steve Call.  

On this episode: Aaron interviews Mark and Michelle Hollingsworth. Our Guests: Mark and Michelle are trauma trained at the Allender Center and Art of Living Counseling Center in narrative focused healing as marriage counselors. They come from experience, navigating and recovering from an affair. They discuss offloading the burdens of trauma and secrets. Mark and Michelle talk about shame in the ministry, lack of Christian and church support, and navigating people that don't know what to do with the pain. We learn how to bless the process of healing, and that everyone's process is different. They also talk about when and how to share with children. Links:   Soul Reserve 2025 Samson Summit Sponsor: Life Works Counseling   If you have thoughts or questions that you'd like the guys to address in upcoming episodes or suggestions for future guests, please drop a note to piratemonkpodcast@gmail.com.   The music on this podcast is contributed by members of the Samson Society and www.fiftysounds.com. For more information on this ministry, please visit samsonsociety.com.  Support for the women who have been impacted by our choices is available at sarahsociety.com. The Pirate Monk Podcast is provided by Samson Society, a ministry of Samson House, a 501(c)3 nonprofit. To help support the vision, please consider a contribution to Samson House.

You have a story. Your sexuality has a story. Adam Young explains why and how to engage your sexual story: desires and disappointments, arousal, emotions, shame, abuse, and your war with hope. Adam also gives us a preview of the workshop he will lead at The Porn Free Man Conference on "Engaging God About Your Story." This episode is incredible!Adam Young is a therapist who focuses on trauma and abuse, and the host of The Place We Find Ourselves podcast. Adam is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) with a Master's degree in Social Work (Virginia Commonwealth University) and Divinity (Emory University). Adam is the author of Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Story with Kindness Changes Everything. He currently serves as a Fellow and Instructor at The Allender Center. Adam lives in Fort Collins, CO, with his wife and two children. Buy Adam's new book here:Make Sense Of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything (this is a paid link)Learn more at adamyoungcounseling.com~~~You're invited to The Porn Free Man Online Conference!When: Friday, January 10 and Saturday, January 11, 2025Get your free ticket now at thepornfreeman.com~~~Take the Husband Material Journey... Step 1: Listen to this podcast or watch on YouTube Step 2: Join the private Husband Material Community Step 3: Take the free mini-course: How To Outgrow Porn Step 4: Try the all-in-one program: Husband Material Academy Thanks for listening!

With Christmas just around the corner, it's easy to get lost in the comforts of gifts, gatherings, and familiar holiday carols. Yet in today's podcast, Dan and Rachael remind us that the true celebration of Christmas means embracing the profound disruption Jesus brought to the world—a call to love, bless, and challenge the status quo, even in a world often defined by hatred and division. This conversation invites us to see Christmas as more than a season of comfort. It's a time of transformation, calling us to step into the work of love, justice, and restoration. Merry Christmas from all of us here at the Allender Center! We'll take a short break on the podcast next week, and will return on December 27th with a year-end reflection from Dan and Becky Allender.  

Today, Chris and Christina continue to discuss "The Big Six", a podcast episode of Adam Young's The Place We Find Ourselves.In his episode, The Big Six, Adam talks about the way children's brains development based upon the level of care and kindness in the family environment. The "Big Six" are the six things you needed from your parents:AttunementResponsivenessEngagementAbility to Regulate Your AffectAbility to Handle Your Big EmotionsWillingness to Repair HarmShow sponsor: Lori E Kenney CPA Firm. (loriekenney.com)Podcast: The Place We Find Ourselves by Adam Young; The Big Six, Episode 159, airdate July 15, 2024.Adam Young (licensed clinical social worker with a master degree in social work (Virginia Commonwealth University) and Divinity (Emory University), host of podcast The Place We Find Ourselves and Fellow with The Allender Center).

When confronting spiritual abuse, it can feel more straightforward to focus on a specific person or leader who may have caused harm. But it's also important to address the systems and cultural contexts that, in their most obvious forms, promote abuse—and in their more subtle forms, allow it to happen or refuse to confront it. In this episode, Dan and Rachael dive into the painful realities of spiritual abuse and the systems that uphold it. They explore how cultural powers—such as patriarchy, white supremacy, capitalism, and purity culture—often intertwine with Christian theology, creating harmful environments that distort our understanding of God and faith. And yet, even in the face of this, there is a call to confront our complicity in these systems with grace and humility.  We hope this conversation is an invitation to wrestle with and address how we've been shaped by harmful cultures and systems and how we may have participated in them – and ultimately, to consider how we can step into a more loving, just, and merciful understanding of God and community. === We invite you to explore the brand-new Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course from the Allender Center. This 6-lesson course, complete with reflective practices and deep dive panel discussions, helps you engage your body, mind, and spirit as you unpack the harm caused by spiritual abuse. Whether you're just beginning to wake up to this reality or have been on a healing journey for years, this course provides a safe and welcoming space to deepen your understanding and work towards healing. Learn more and enroll today at: theallendercenter.org/online-courses

Abuse of any kind involves a setup and a breach of trust – and spiritual abuse is no exception.  Whether it stems from personal relationships or institutional settings, spiritual abuse can deeply disrupt our sense of attachment and connection, leaving lasting wounds. These wounds may have their roots in early developmental trauma, making spiritual abuse feel like an echo of past harm. It's not just about the betrayal of spiritual abuse in the more recent past—whether during teen years, college experiences, or adulthood—but about understanding how our earliest experiences have shaped our ability to trust and heal. === We invite you to explore the brand-new Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course from the Allender Center. This 6-lesson course, complete with reflective practices and deep dive panel discussions, helps you engage your body, mind, and spirit as you unpack the harm caused by spiritual abuse. Whether you're just beginning to wake up to this reality or have been on a healing journey for years, this course provides a safe and welcoming space to deepen your understanding and work towards healing. Learn more and enroll today at: theallendercenter.org/online-courses

In this episode, we invite you to take a deep breath and find some grounding through the power of poetry. Whether you're navigating stress or simply feeling a bit unsteady, poetry — reading it, writing it, or even the act of writing any thoughts by hand — can offer profound moments of calm and connection. We're thrilled to be joined once again by Sue Cunningham, an Allender Center facilitator and licensed therapist. Sue wears many hats — poet, life and soul coach, spiritual director — and now, podcast host! Be sure to check out her newly launched podcast, Living Poetry, available wherever you listen to podcasts. We hope this episode feels like a balm for your soul, offering beauty, healing, and practical ways to use poetry to find peace and grounding in this season.  

This week, we're sifting through some of the "debris" that can hinder people from moving into the healing process in the wake of sexual abuse.  Dan and Rachael talk about some of the questions that can keep people feeling stuck and silent: What if I don't remember everything? What if my healing journey affects my loved ones? Shouldn't I just forgive and move on? Can I wait until life isn't so busy? What if facing this feels overwhelming? By acknowledging these barriers, you can start to see a way through. Next week, we'll discuss what's needed to begin the healing journey from past abuse. Please note that this episode contains discussions of sexual abuse and childhood sexual abuse, and may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Listener Resources: Explore more podcast episodes including: "The Cost of Engaging Stories of Sexual Abuse," "Connections Between Spiritual and Sexual Abuse," and "Bearing Witness to Stories of Sexual Abuse and Racial Trauma." Read: Healing the Wounded Heart by Dr. Dan Allender Sign up for the Healing the Wounded Heart Online Course from the Allender Center