Podcasts about KJ

Jess here! A while back, Sarina and KJ talked about how much they enjoyed Tess Gerritsen's novel, The Spy Coast, and Sarina reassured KJ she'd enjoy book two of the series even more. I had never read a Tess Gerritsen novel, and while I'd heard her name before and vaguely understood she wrote thrillers, I was starting from square one when I downloaded the audio version of The Spy Coast. Now, I'm not an international spy thriller kind of gal. In the abstract, I understand the allure of books like Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy or Six Days of the Condor. Spies! Intrigue! International [almost exclusively men] of mystery! But they have never really floated my proverbial boat. That said, I loved Tess Gerritsen's spies and the world they inhabit. There's a sense of place - nay, a downright LOVE of place - and a retiring, rural New England domesticity that spoke to this retiring, rural New England reader. Book two, The Summer Guests, is even more rooted in Maine, on its history and the social dynamics of its natives and its summer people. Once I tore through those first two books, I went back to Gerritsen's first book, The Surgeon, one of Time Magazine's top 100 thriller/mystery books of all time and the first in the Rizzoli & Isles series, consequently made into a long-running television series. Gerritsen has a fascinating career trajectory, lots to talk about regarding pantsing and plotting, where the ideas come from, and lots of other geeky details about the writing life. I hope you enjoy it as much as we did. Find Tess at Tessgerritsen.com, or on Bluesky, @TessGerritsen Transcript below!EPISODE 462 - TRANSCRIPTJennie NashHey everyone, it's Jennie Nash, founder and CEO of Author Accelerator, the company I started more than 10 years ago to lead the emerging book coaching industry. In October, we'll be enrolling a new cohort of certification students who will be going through programs in either fiction, nonfiction, or memoir, and learning the editorial, emotional, and entrepreneurial skills that you need to be a successful book coach. If you've been curious about book coaching and thinking that it might be something you want to do for your next career move, I'd love to teach you more about it, you can go to bookcoaches.com/waitlist to check out the free training I have—that's bookcoaches.com/waitlist. The training is all about how to make money, meaning, and joy out of serving writers. Fall is always a great time to start something new. So if you're feeling called to do this, go check out our training and see if this might be right for you. We'd love to have you join us.Multiple SpeakersIs it recording? Now it's recording, yay. Go ahead. This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone. I don't remember what I'm supposed to be doing. All right, let's start over. Awkward pause. I'm going to rustle some papers. Okay, now—one, two, three.Jess LaheyHey, this is Jess Lahey, and this is the Hashtag AmWriting Podcast. This is the podcast about writing all the things—short things, long things, poetry, prose, narrative nonfiction, fiction, creative nonfiction, queries, proposals. This is the podcast about writing all the things. More than anything else, this is the podcast about the writing life and about getting the work done. I am Jess Lahey. I'm the author of The Gift of Failure and The Addiction Inoculation. And you can find my journalism at The Atlantic and The Washington Post, and my bi-weekly (formerly bi-weekly) column at The New York Times, The Parent-Teacher Conference, ran for about three years I am joined today by Sarina Bowen, who has written 50-odd books. She has written lots and lots of romance, and her most recent addition to the world of publishing has been her thrillers, Dying to Meet You and The Five Year Lie. And she has a book coming out this fall called Thrown for a Loop. The reason I am recording this intro on my own—which, as you may know if you've been listening, is highly unusual for us—is because I know myself. And I know when I'm really excited to talk to someone on the podcast; I'm going to flub the intro. I'm going to forget something. I'm going to forget to introduce them altogether. So today, I'm doing that first, so I don't mess it up. A while ago on the podcast, you may have heard Sarina and KJ read some books by an author named Tess Gerritsen. I had heard of Tess Gerritsen, but I had never read any of her books. I just hadn't yet. I haven't read Nora Roberts yet. I haven't read—there are lots of authors I haven't read yet. And sometimes you don't even know where to start. So when Sarina and KJ recommended Tess Gerritsen's new series set in Maine—the first one being The Spy Coast and the second one being The Summer Guests—I figured I had a good place to start. And you know, as a New Englander, I love a good book about New England, and that was the start of my interest in Tess Gerritsen's work. I have gone back to the beginning and started with her book The Surgeon, which was her first book in the series that became the Rizzoli and Isles Series, as well as a television show. Tess Gerritsen has a—she's written through 33 books at this point. And as I now know, she has also directed a documentary called Magnificent Beast about pigs, which I listened to this morning while I was vacuuming the house. I loved it. She also—she has a lot to say about genre, about publishing, about second careers, about a writing place, and about process. So let's just jump right into it. I am so excited to introduce to you today, Tess Gerritsen. So from the perspective of what our listeners love—this podcast, the Hashtag AmWriting Podcast —is super geek. People who love the nuts and bolts and the dorky details of the writing life. Sarina has a past life in finance, and so she tends to be, like, our “no, but let's talk about the numbers” kind of person. I'm just the research super dork, which is why I spent my morning watching your documentary about pigs.Tess GerritsenOh my god! (Laughing)Jess LaheyMagnificent Beast. I—I've joked in the past that if I could, I would probably just research things in—in, you know, maybe there'll be a book out there, maybe there won't, but I would research things and—and just learn as much as I could. And so I loved—loved—your Magnificent Beast documentary. I thought it was fantastic. But one of the reasons that we wanted to talk to you, just from the very beginning, is that we feel like you do some pretty incredible world-building and relationship-building with your places and your characters. And so I just—I would love to start there, mainly with the idea of starting with the real nuts and bolts stuff, which is, like, what does an average writing day look like for you? And how do you, sort of—how do you set that up? What does it look like, if you have an average writing day? Maybe you don't.Tess GerritsenWell, it's hard to describe an average writing day, because every day is—there are days when you sit at your desk and you just, you know, pull your hair. And there are days when you get distracted by the news. And there are many days when I just do not want to write. But when I'm writing, the good days are when my characters are alive and talking to me. And it's—it's—you talked about world-building and character-building. That is really key to me. What are they saying to me? Can I hear their voices? And it sounds a little—a little crazy, because I am hearing voices. But it's those voices that really make characters come alive.Jess LaheyI—You have said in other interviews that you are very much—sorry to those of you who hate the terms—that you are very much a pantser. And you are sitting on this interview with a consummate plotter. Sarina is our consummate plotter. So could you talk a little bit about how those character—how those voices—influence, you know, the pantsing of the—of the book, and—and how that works for you?Tess GerritsenWell, I mean, it is weird that I am a pantser. And it's funny—I think that people who are plotters tend to be people who are in finance or in law, because they're used to having their ducks lined up, you know. They—they want everything set up ahead of time, and it makes them feel comfortable. And I think a large part of becoming a pantser is learning to be comfortable with unpredictability. Learning to just let things happen, and know you're going to take wrong turns, know you're going to end up in blind alleys—and yet just keep on forging ahead and change direction. So I suppose that what helps me become a pantser, as I said, is hearing a character's voice. If, for instance, when I wrote The Spy Coast, the first thing I heard about that book was Maggie Bird's voice. And she just said, “I'm not the woman I used to be.” And that's an opening there, right? Because you want to find out, Maggie, who did you used to be? And why do you sound so sad? So a lot of it was just—just getting into her head and letting her talk about what a day-to-day life is, which is, you know, raising chickens and collecting eggs and becoming—and being—a farmer. And then she does something surprising in that very first chapter. There's a fox that's killing her chickens, so she grabs her rifle and kills it with one shot. And that opens up another thing, like—how are you, a 62-year-old woman, able to take out a rifle and kill a fox with one shot? So it's—it's those things. It's those revelations of character. When they come out and they tell you something, or they show you they—they have a skill that you weren't aware of, you want to dig deeper and find out, you know, where did they get that skill?Sarina BowenAnd that is a really fun way to show it. I mean, you're talking today with two people who have also kept chickens.Multiple Speakers(All laughing)Jess LaheyAnd had foxes take their chickens, actually.Sarina BowenOh yes, because the two go together.Tess GerritsenYes.Sarina BowenBut yes, I admit I have never shot a fox, and maybe wouldn't.Jess LaheyI have yelled very loudly at a fox, and he actually—I have to say—really mad respect for the fox, because he took one look at me—he did drop the chicken that I was yelling at him for grabbing—and then he went across the street, around the neighbor's house, around the back of the other neighbor's house, and came at the exact same chicken from the other side of the house, where I couldn't see him out the window.Tess GerritsenOh, they are so smart. They are so smart.Jess LaheySo smart. Sarina, it sounded like you had something— you had something you wanted to add, and I interrupted you when we were talking about pantsing and we were talking about world-building and characters speaking to you.Sarina BowenWell, I just had thought that it was a lovely moment to explain why I was so excited to read this book after I heard Tess speak at Thriller Fest 2024, in a packed room where there was nowhere to sit except on the floor. You told the audience a little bit of a story from your real life that—that made you want to write that book. And I wonder if you could tell us what that was, because for me—I mean, we were only five minutes into your talk, and I'm like, oh, I'm—I'm going to download that tonight.Tess GerritsenWell, yes, it was. A lot of my books come from ideas that I've been stewing over for years. I have a folder called the ideas folder. It's an actual physical manila folder. And if I see something in an article or a newspaper or a magazine, I'll just rip it out and stick it in there, and it sometimes takes a long time before I know how to turn this into a book. So the idea for The Spy Coast is a little bit of obscure knowledge that I learned 35 years ago, when I first moved to Maine. My husband is a medical doctor. He opened up a practice, and when he would bring in new patients, he would always get an occupational history. And he used to get this answer—this very strange answer—from his new patients. They would say, “I used to work for the government, but I can't talk about it.” And after he heard that three times, he thought, what town did we land in? And who are these people? And we later found out that on our very short street, on one side of us was a retired OSS person, and on the other side was retired CIA. A realtor told us that our town was full of CIA retirees. So, I mean, of course you want to ask, why did they get here? What are they doing here? What are their lives like? I knew there was a book in there, but I didn't know what that book was. I needed 35 years to come up with the idea. And what I really needed to do was become old and—and realize that as you get older, especially women, we become invisible. People don't pay attention to us. We are over the hill. You know, everybody looks at the young, pretty chicks, but once you start getting gray hair, you fade into the background. And with that experience myself; I began to think more and more about what it's like to be retired. What is it like to be retired from a job that was maybe dangerous, or exciting, or something that you really risked your life to—to achieve? So that was—that was the beginning of The Spy Coast. What happens to CIA retirees—especially women—who are now invisible? But that makes them the best spies of all.Jess LaheyYeah, and we have—we did this really cool thing, this really fun thing for us on the Hashtag AmWriting Podcast. It's like a supporter-only thing, where we call First Pages, where very brave authors—very brave writers—submit their first page to us, and we talk about it and decide whether or not we'd want to turn the page. And you have an incredible skill on your first pages. You're very, very good at first pages. And I was thinking about The Summer Guests, that you had this wonderful line that I'm going to read now:Purity, Maine, 1972. On the last day of his life, Purity police officer Randy Pelletier ordered a blueberry muffin and a cup of coffee at the Marigold Café,Which immediately reminded me of my very, very favorite line from all of literature—my very favorite first line—which is Irving's first line from A Prayer for Owen Meany, in which he ruins the story for you right there in the first line:I am doomed to remember a boy with a wrecked voice—not because of his voice, or because he was the smallest person I ever knew, or even because he was the instrument of my mother's death, but because he is the reason I believe in God.There is this incredible power to first lines. And I'm sort of wondering where—how first lines happen for you. Do they happen first? Do they happen last? Do they happen along the way?Tess GerritsenFirst lines usually happen last. I—it's—I will write the whole book, and I'll think, something's missing in that first chapter. How do I open this up? And, you know, there are things that make lines immediately hypnotic, and one of those things is an inherent contradiction—something that makes you think, wait, okay, you start off this way, but then all of a sudden, the meaning of that line switches. So, yeah, it starts off with, you know, this guy's going to die. But on that last day of his life, he does something very ordinary. He just orders coffee at the local café. So I think it's that contradiction that makes us want to read more. It's also a way to end chapters. I think that—that if you leave your reader with a sense of unease—something is about to go wrong, but they don't know what it is yet—or leave them with an unanswered question, or leave them with, as I said, a contradiction—that is what's page-turning. I think that a lot of thriller writers in particular mistake action for—for being—for being interesting. A car chase on the page is really very boring. But what's interesting is something that—you could feel that tension building, but you don't know why.Sarina BowenI have joked sometimes that when I get stuck on a plot, sometimes I will talk at my husband and—and say, “you know, I'm stuck here.” And he always says, “And then a giant squid attacked.” And it—of course I don't write books that take place where this is possible, so—but it never fails to remind me that, like, external action can sometimes be just, you know, totally pointless. And that if you're stuck, it's because one of your dominoes isn't leaning, you know, in the right spot. So...Tess GerritsenYeah, it's—it's not as much fun seeing that domino fall as seeing it go slowly tilting over. You know, I really learned this when I was watching a James Bond movie. And it starts off—you know, the usual James Bonds have their cold open to those action and chasing and death-defying acts. I found that—I find that really, in that movie anyway—I was like, Ho hum. Can we get to the story? And I found the time when I was leaning forward in my theater seat, watching every moment, was really a very quiet conversation aboard a train between him and this woman who was going to become his lover. That was fascinating to me. So I think that that transfers to book writing as well. Action is boring.Jess LaheyYou and Sarina do something that I feel, as a writer; I would probably not be very good at, which is creating that unease. I—Sarina in particular does this thing... I've read every one of Sarina's books, as a good friend is supposed to do. And I text her, and I say, Why don't they just talk about it and just deal? Get it out in the open! And she's like, you know, we just got to make these people uncomfortable. And you both have this incredible talent for helping—keeping the reader, uh, along with you, simply because there is this sense of unease. We're slightly off-kilter the whole time. And yet in me, as a people pleaser, that makes me very uncomfortable. I want people to be happy with each other. So how do you—if you get to a place where you feel like maybe things aren't off-kilter enough, or things aren't off-balance enough—how do you introduce a little bit of unease into your—into your story?Tess GerritsenWell, I think it comes down to very small points of conflict—little bits of tension. Like, we call it micro-tension. And I think those occur in everyday life all the time. For instance, you know, things that happen that really don't have any big consequence, but are still irritating. We will stew about those for—for a while. And, you know, I used to write romance as well, so I understand entirely what Sarina is doing, because romance is really about courtship and conflict. And it's the conflict that makes us keep reading. We just—we know this is the courtship. So there's always that sense of it's not quite there, because once the characters are happy, the story is over, right?Sarina BowenYeah.Multiple Speakers(All laughing)Sarina BowenAlso, writing the ends of romance novels is the least interesting part. Like, what...? Once the conflict is resolved, like, I cannot wait to get out of there.Tess GerritsenRight, exactly. You know, I—I pay attention to my feelings when I'm reading a book, and I've noticed that the books that I remember are not the books with happy endings, because happiness is so fleeting. You know, you can be happy one second, and then something terrible will happen. You'll be unhappy. What lasts for us is sadness, or the sense of bittersweet. So when I read a book that ends with a bittersweet ending—such as, you know, Larry McMurtry Lonesome Dove—I ended up crying at the end of that book, and I have never forgotten that ending. Now, if everybody had been happy and there had been nobody to drag all those miles at the end, I would have forgotten that book very quickly. So I think—I try—I always try to leave the end of the book either bittersweet—I mean, you want to resolve all the major plot points—but also leave that sense of unease, because people remember that. And it also helps you, if you have a sequel.Sarina BowenThat's so interesting you've just brought up a couple of really interesting points, because there is a thriller—I actually write suspense now—and one of the books that so captured my attention about five years ago was killing it on the charts. And I thought it was actually a terrible book, but it nailed the bittersweet ending. Like, the premise was solid, and then the bittersweet ending was perfect, and the everything between the first chapter and the last chapter was a hot mess, but—but—um, that ending really stuck with me. And I remember carrying it around with me, like, Wow, they really nailed that ending. You know, and—and maybe that has, like, legs in terms of, like, talking about it. And, you know, if it—if—if it's irritating enough, like, the tension is still there—enough to, like, make people talk about it—it could actually affect the performance of that book. But also, um, one thing that I really love about this series—you have—what is the series title for the...?Tess GerritsenMartini—The Martini Club.Sarina BowenThe Martini Club, right? So The Martini Club is two books now. I inhaled the first one last summer, and I inhaled the second one this summer. And The Martini Club refers to this group of friends—these retired spies. And of course, there are two completely different mysteries in book one and book two. And I noticed a couple of things about the difference between those mysteries that was really fun. So in the first case—or in one of the two cases, let's see—in one of them, the thing that happens in their town is actually, like, related to them. And in the other one, it's kind of not. So to me, that felt like a boundary expansion of your world and your system. But also, I just love the way you leaned into the relationship of these people and their town in such a way. And how did you know to do that? Like, how—what does your toolbox say about how to get that expansiveness in your character set? Like, you know, to—to find all the limits of it?Tess GerritsenThat—you know, so much is like—it's like asking a pole-vaulter how they do it. They just—they have just—I guess its muscle memory. You don't really know how you're doing it, but what I did know was—with age, and because I love these characters so much—it really became about them and about what is going to deepen their friendship? What kind of a challenge is going to make them lean into each other—lean on each other? That's really what I was writing about, I think, was this circle of friends, and—and what you will do, how much you will sacrifice, to make sure your friends are safe. No, you're right—the second book is much more of a classic mystery. Yeah—a girl disappears. I mean, there was—there were—there were CIA undertones in that, because that becomes an important part of the book. But I think that what people are—when people say they love this book—they really talk about the characters and that friendship. And we all want friends like this, where we can go and—and—and have martinis together, and then if we—one of us needs to—we'll go help them bury a body.Multiple Speakers(All laughing)Tess GerritsenThat's—they all have shovels, and they're willing to do it. That's the kind of friendship—friends—we want.Jess LaheyWell, and that's funny you mention that—I had an entire question—it wasn't even a question, it was a statement—in here about friendships and being grateful to you for the reminder about the importance of relationships. And this entire podcast was born out of the fact that we were talking writing all the time, and we just wanted an official way to sit down once a week and actually talk about the work. And your work is suffused with just these incredible relationships—whether that's the Rizzoli and Isles—you know, in your first—in the one of your other series—and I'm just—I'm very grateful for that, because we—especially—I think I re—I really crave books about female relationships, especially about older female relationships. And I have been loving your books, and I've—like, as I may have mentioned to you in my initial email—I had—I'm so sorry—never read your books before. And I admitted in the introduction that there are lots of very, very famous authors whose books I have never read. And it's always so exciting to me to dive into someone's series and realize, oh, this person really touches on themes that mean a lot to me, and I can already tell that I'm going to be enjoying a lot of their books to come forward. So thank you for all of the great descriptions of relationships and how we do rely on each other for various aspects of just how we get through all of this stuff.Tess GerritsenYeah—get through life. But you know what's funny about it is that it didn't start that way. For instance, let's go back to Rizzoli and Isles. The very first time they both appear in a book is in The Apprentice. And they don't start off being friends. They start off being—they're so different. As the TV producer once said, “you've really written about Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock.” That's okay—they are—in the books. They are not natural friends. But like real-life friendships, sometimes—just kind of develop slowly, and—and they have their ups and downs. So there are times when—when Jane and Maura are barely speaking to each other because of conflicts they have. But by the time book twelve comes around—or maybe book seven comes around—you know that they would risk their lives for each other. So I think that if you're writing a series like Rizzoli and Isles, or like The Martini Club, it really helps to develop the friendship on the fly and see how they react to certain stresses. The next book, which I just turned in, called The Shadow Friends—it even put—pushes them even further, and it really—it really strains a marriage, because it's—it's more about Ingrid, and an old lover comes back into her life. She used to—they were both spies—and he is, like, hot, hot, hot—Antonio Banderas kind of guy. And here's Ingrid, married to Lloyd, you know, who's just a sweet analyst who cooks dinner for her every night. And I—when I was coming up with that story, I thought, I want to write a book about their marriage. So it wasn't—the plot wasn't about, oh, you know, international assassinations, even though that does occur in the book. It's really about the story of a marriage.Jess LaheyAnd it gives you, it gives you added unease. You know, if you have your two characters not speaking to each other, and you know your readers love those characters and crave those characters to be getting along at some point, then that's just another reason that we're following along. I was just thinking about, uh, Michael Connelly, uh, book the other day, because I really, really like the series he did with Renée Ballard and her relationship with the Bosch character, and how that series is totally about crime, but yet it's also very much about the relationship. And I think I follow—I continue to read those because of the relationship between those two human beings, and less so because of the murder mystery sort of stuff.Tess GerritsenI think it really becomes important if you're dealing also with Hollywood television series. I still remember what the producer first said when he called me up about Rizzoli and Isles. He said, "I love your girls, and I think they belong on TV.” He didn't say, I love your plots. He didn't say, I love your mysteries, you know, all your intricate ups and downs. It was really about the girls. So if you hope to sell to a television series, really, it's about characters again.Jess LaheyAbsolutely.Sarina BowenI was going to ask about longevity, because you have so many books, and you're so obviously still invigorated by the process, or there wouldn't be a book three that you just turned in. So how have you been able to avoid just being sick to death of—of writing suspense novel after suspense novel?Tess GerritsenI refused. That's what it is. You know, I—I don't—I guess I could say that I have a little bit of ADHD when it comes to—to the books I write. I cannot—after 13 books of Rizzoli and Isles, I just had a different idea. And it takes—it takes a certain amount of backbone to say no to your publisher, to your editor, to people who are going, well, when's the next one in this series coming out? And to be able to say, I need a break. I need to do something completely different. So over—how many years I've been a writer—almost 40 now—I've written science fiction and historicals and a ghost story and romantic suspense and spy novels and medical thrillers and crime novels. I've been all over the place, but each one of those books that took me out of what I was expected to do was so invigorating. It was a book that I needed to write. As an example, I wrote a book called Playing with Fire. Nobody wanted that book. Nobody expected that book. It was a historical about World War II, and about music—about the power of music—and having to do with the death camps. I remember my publisher going, "What are you doing?" And, you know, it's—it's true—they're—they—they are marketers, and they understood that that book would not sell as well, and it didn't. But it still remains one of my favorite books. And when you want to write a book, you need to write that book. That's all—even—even if nobody wants it.Jess LaheyI actually was—I'm so pleased that this came up, because that was actually going to be my question, because both you and Sarina have done this—done, you know, 90 degrees—whether it's out of, you know, one genre into another—and that, to me, requires an enormous amount of courage. Because you know you have people expecting things from you. And you in particular, Tess, have people saying, "No, I want the next one. I love this relationship. I want the next one." And—and dealing—you're not just dealing with the disappointment of whether it's an agent or an editor, but the disappointment of fans. And that's a pressure as well. So when I used to do journalism, I remember a question I asked of another journalist was, "How do you continue to write without fear of the comment section?" And essentially, for us, that's our—you know, those are our readers. So how do you find that thing within yourself to say, no, this really is the thing that I need to be writing now?Tess GerritsenWell, that is a really—it's a really tough decision to buck the trend or buck what everybody's expecting, because there's a thing in publishing called the death spiral. And if your book does not sell well, they will print fewer copies for the next one. And then that won't sell well. So you start—your career starts to go down the drain. And that is a danger every time you step out of your tried and true series and do something out of—you know, completely out of the ordinary. I think the reason I did it was that I really didn't give a damn. It was—it was like, Okay, maybe this will kill my career, but I've got to write this book. And it was always with the idea that if my publisher did not want that, I would just self-publish. I would just, you know, find another way to get it out there. And I—I was warned, rightly so, that your sales will not be good for this book, and that will—it will hurt the next contract. And I understood that. But it was the only way I could keep my career going. Once you get bored, and you're—you're trapped in a drawer, I think it shows up in your writing.Jess LaheyI had this very conversation with my agent. The—my first book did well. And so then, you know, the expectation is, I'll write like part two of that, or I'll write something for that exact same audience again. And when I told my agent—I said, "You know, this book on substance use prevention and kids—I—it's—I have to write it. And I'm going to write it even, you know, if I have to go out there and sell it out of the trunk of my car." And she said, "Okay, then I guess we're doing this." And yes...Tess Gerritsen(Laughing) They had their best wishes at heart.Jess LaheyAnd honestly, I love—I loved my book that did well. But The Addiction Inoculation is the book I'm most proud of. And, you know, that's—yeah, that's been very important to me.Tess GerritsenI often hear from writers that the book that sold the fewest copies was one that was—were their favorites. Those are the ones that they took a risk on, that they—I mean, they put their heart and soul into it. And maybe those hurt their careers, but those are the ones that we end up being proud of.Jess LaheyI like to remind Sarina of that, because I do remember we text each other constantly. We have a little group, the three of us, a little group text all day long. And there was—I remember when she first wrote a male-male romance, she was scared. She was really scared that this was going to be too different for her readers. And it ended up being, I think, my favorite book that she's ever written, and also a very important book for her in terms of her career development and growth, and what she loves about the work that she does. And so I like to remind her every once in a while, remember when you said that really scared you and you weren't sure how your readers were going to handle it?Sarina BowenRight? Well, I also did that in the middle of a series, and I went looking for confirmation that that is a thing that people did sometimes, and it was not findable. You know, that was...Jess LaheyWhat? Change things up in terms of—change things up in the middle of a series?Sarina BowenIn the middle of a series. And anyway, that book still sells.Tess GerritsenThat is a great act of courage, but it's also an act of confidence in yourself as a writer. There are ways to do it. I think some writers will just adopt a different pen name for something that's way out there.Jess LaheyIt's funny you should say... it's funny you should say that.Sarina BowenWell, no, and I never have done that, but, um—but anyway, yeah, that's hard. I, uh...Jess LaheyYeah.Sarina BowenIt's hard to know. Sometimes...Jess LaheyWe entertain it all the time. We do talk about that as an option all the time. Shouldn't we just pick up and do something completely different? One of the things that I also—I mentioned at the top of the podcast about, you know, you went off—not only have you done lots of different things in terms of your writing—but you went off and you did an entire documentary about pigs. I have—I have to ask you where on earth that came from and why. And it is a total delight, as I mentioned, and I have already recommended it to two people that I know also love the topic. But, you know, to go off—and especially when you usually, as some of us have experienced—our agents saying, so when am I going to see more pages? or when am I going to see the next book? And you say, I'm really sorry, but I have to go off and film this documentary about pigs.Tess GerritsenYes. Well, you know, I was an anthropology major in college, and I've always been interested in the pig taboo. You know, back then, everybody just assumed it was because, yeah, it was disease or they're dirty animals—that's why they're forbidden food. It never quite convinced me, because I'm Chinese-American. Asia—you know, Asia loves pork. Why aren't they worried about all that? So I was in Istanbul for a book tour once, and I remember I really wanted bacon, and, you know, I couldn't get bacon. And then I thought, okay, I really need to find out why pork is forbidden. This is a—this is a cultural and historical mystery that never made sense to me. The explanations just never made sense to me. It cannot be trichinosis. So I told my son that—my son is—he does—he's a filmmaker as well. And he just said, "Well, let's do it. Let's—we will pose it as a mystery," because it is a mystery. So it took us probably two years to go and—you know, we interviewed anthropologists and pet pig owners and archaeologists, actually, just to find out, what do they say? What is the answer to this? And to us, the answer really just came down to this cultural desire for every—every tribe—to define us versus them. You know, they eat pigs. They're not us, so therefore they're the enemy. And it was fascinating because we—we ended up finding out more about pigs than I was expecting, and also finding out that people who have pet pigs can sometimes be a little unusual.Jess LaheyAnd the people who purchase the clothes for the pigs are also crazy.Tess GerritsenYes. Sew outfits for their pigs and sleep with their pigs. And there was—there was one woman who had—she slept on the second floor of her house, so she had an elevator for her pig who couldn't make it up the stairs, and, you know, ramps to get up onto the bed because they've gotten so fat—they've been overfed. But it was—for me, at the heart of it was a mystery.Jess LaheyAs a nonfiction author whose whole entire reason for being is, "I don't know—let's find out," I think that's just the most delightful thing. And I loved your framing as, "I don't know, we have this question, let's go out there and just ask people about it and find the experts." And that's—oh, I could just live on that stuff. So...Tess GerritsenSo could I. You know, research is so enticing. It's enticing. It is—it can get you into trouble because you never write your book. Some of us just love to do the research.Jess LaheySarina actually has taken skating lessons, done glass blowing—what else have you done? Yoga classes and all—all kinds of things in the pursuit of knowledge for her characters. And I think that's a delight.Sarina BowenYes. If you can sign up for a class as part of your research, like, that is just the best day. Like, you know, oh, I must take these ice skating lessons twice a day for five months, because—yeah—or twice a week, but still.Tess GerritsenYou must be a good ice skater then.Sarina BowenI'm getting better.Tess GerritsenSo you never gave them up, I see.Jess LaheyWell, it's fun because she usually writes about hockey, but she has a figure skater coming up in this book that's coming out this fall. And she's like, "Well, I guess I'm just going to have to learn how to figure skate."Tess GerritsenYeah.Sarina BowenI also—one time I went to see Rebecca Skloot speak about her big nonfiction The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks.Tess GerritsenOh, okay.Sarina BowenAnd she said that all her best ideas had come from moments in her life when she went, "Wait, what?!"Tess GerritsenYes. Yep.Sarina BowenIncluding for The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks. Like, she learned about the cells in high school—she was in high school biology class—and the teacher said, like, "This woman died in the '60s, but we're still using her cells," and she said, "Wait, what?!" And that's—that's what you made me think of with the pigs. Like, I think...Jess LaheyWell, and also your folder of ideas. I mean, I immediately texted Sarina after listening to a podcast where I heard an ad, and the ad made me go, "Oh that could be creepy." And then I'm like, "Okay, this is—this is a plot. This is going in the folder somewhere." And so you have to just think about how those things could unfold over time. And I love the idea of—and even in journalism—there are articles that I've written where I said, this just isn't their time. And then, like, five years later, I'll hear something out there, and I'm like, okay, finally, it's the time for this thing. And there's a reason you put that article in your idea—in your paper—manila folder of ideas.Tess GerritsenWell, I think writers are—we have to be curious. We have to be engaged in what's going on around us, because the ideas are everywhere. And I have this—I like to say I have a formula. It's called "two plus two equals five." And what that means is, sometimes you'll have a—you'll have a piece of information that, you know, there's a book here, but you haven't figured out what to do with it. And you wait for another piece of information from some completely different source, and you put them together, and they end up being like nuclear fusion—bigger than the…Sarina BowenYes!Jess LaheyYes!Tess GerritsenSome of the parts.Sarina BowenMost every book I've ever written works like that. Like, I have one idea that I drag around for, like, five years, and then I have this other idea, and one day I'm like, oh, those two things go together.Tess GerritsenYep.Jess LaheyYeah, absolutely. I think Stephen King mentioned that about Carrie. I think it was like, telekinesis, and that usually starts about the time of menstruation, and it was like, boom, there was Carrie. You know, those two things came together. I love that so much. So you mentioned that you have just handed in your next book, and we don't—we do not, as a rule, ask about what's next for an author, because I find that to be an incredibly intimidating and horrifying question to be asked. But I would love to hear; you know, is this—is this series one that you hope to continue working on? The main series, mainly because we have quite fallen in love with your little town in Maine—in Purity, Maine. Fantastic name for your town, by the way. It's really lovely. It creates such a nice dichotomy for these people who have seen and heard things during their careers that maybe are quite dark, and then they retire to a place called Purity. Is this a place where we can hopefully spend a little bit of time?Tess GerritsenWell, I am thinking about book number four now. I have an idea. You know, it always starts with—it starts with an idea and doodling around and trying to figure out what—you know, you start with this horrible situation, and then you have to explain it. So that's where I am now. I have this horrible situation, I have to explain it. So, yeah, I'm thinking about book four. I don't know how—you never know how long a series is going to go. It's a little tough because I have my characters who are internationally based—I mean, they've been around the world—but then I can't leave behind my local cop who is also a part of this group as well. So I have to keep an eye out on Maine being the center of most of the action.Sarina BowenRight, because how many international plots can you give Purity, Maine?Tess GerritsenThat's right, exactly. Well, luckily…Jess LaheyLook, Murder, She Wrote—how many things happened to that woman in that small town?Tess GerritsenExactly, exactly. Well, luckily, because I have so many CIA retirees up here, the international world comes to us. Like the next book, The Shadow Friends, is about a global security conference where one of the speakers gets murdered. And it turns out we have a global security conference right here in our town that was started by CIA 40 years ago. So I'm just—I'm just piggybacking on reality here. And—not that the spies up here think that's very amusing.Sarina BowenThat is fantastic, because, you know, the essential problem of writing a suspense novel is that you have to ground it in a reality that everyone is super familiar with, and you have to bring in this explosive bit of action that is unlikely to happen near any of us. And those two things have to fit together correctly. So by, um, by putting your retired spies in this tiny town, you have sort of, like, gifted yourself with that, you know, precise problem solver.Tess GerritsenYeah, reminding us.Sarina BowenYeah.Tess GerritsenBut there's only so far I can take that. I'm not sure what the limits... I think book four is going to take them all overseas, because my local cop, Jo, she's never been out of the country—except for Canada—and it's time for her dad to drag her over to Italy and say, "Your dead mom wanted to come to Italy, so I'm taking you." And, of course, things go wrong in Italy for Jo.Jess LaheyOf course, of course. Well, we're going to keep just banging on about how much we love these books. I think we've already mentioned it in three podcast episodes so far in our “What have you been reading lately that you've really loved?” So we're—we're big fans. And thank you so much for sitting down to talk with us and to—you know, one of the whole points of our podcast is to flatten the learning curve for other authors, so we hope that that's done a little bit of that for our listeners. And again, thank you so much. Where can people find you and your work if they want to learn a little bit more about Tess Gerritsen—her work?Tess GerritsenYou can go to TessGerritsen.com, and I try to post as much information there as I can. But I'm also at Bluesky, @TessGerritsen, and what is now called “X”—a legacy person on X—@TessGerritsen, yes.Jess LaheyThank you so, so much again. And for everyone out there listening, keep your butt in the chair and your head in the game.The Hashtag AmWriting Podcast is produced by Andrew Perella. Our intro music—aptly titled Unemployed Monday—was written and played by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their time and their creative output, because everyone deserves to be paid for their work. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Dr. Brett Kessler returns for a conversation with KJ on the latest trends and the developments in the Dental World. We talk AI, Materials, Digital Workflows, Labs, if you're a dentist you do NOT want to miss this episode! Ladies & Gentlemen, you're listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here. Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :)Connect with Dr. Kessler on instagram at @bikodds and email him at kesslerb@ada.orgFollow KJ & NuArt on Instagram at @lifeatnuartdental, you can also reach us via email: kj@nuartdental.comAsk us about our scanner program!Learn more about the lab and request information via our website: https://nuartdental.com/contact

Goals can be a great motivator — until they start feeling like a prison. In this episode, we're digging into what happens when the very thing that's supposed to inspire you starts holding you back. We'll share how to spot the signs that your goals have become a cage, why flexibility matters, and how to shift your focus so you can keep progressing without burning out or losing joy in the process. If you've ever hit a goal and still felt unfulfilled — or found yourself trapped by your own expectations — this episode will give you a fresh way forward.Enjoy!K+J

In this episode of Unspeakable, KJ continues her account of the tragic case of Samantha Koenig, an 18-year-old barista who disappeared from Anchorage, Alaska, on February 1, 2012. KJ details the events surrounding her abduction by Israel Keyes, offering a chilling narrative of her last moments at the coffee shop and the investigative journey that ensued. Unspeakable Listener Deals!Eric JavitsChic, Provactive, and Iconic-Eric Javits hats are the essence of designer elegance. Made famous by sex and the city and worn by Melania, these travel friendly sun hats and accressories are known worldwide. 20% off for my listeners by using the code UNSPEAKABLE via the link belowEric Javits Designer Hats and AccessoriesSOURCES https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkkX4L9fSg0 https://allthatsinteresting.com/samantha-koenighttps://alaskapublic.org/news/2012-12-05/police-release-detailed-account-of-koenig-murderFollow “Crime Wire Weekly” on it's new channel HERE:Apple Podcasts   https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-crime-wire-weekly/id1815864889 Spotify  https://open.spotify.com/show/3zyrgjtW6gLUVbicJaYXV9?si=0dbf4983938344a2 Amazon Music  https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3738411d-828e-4138-9976-223ab5de2c87/the-crime-wire-weekly

The Voice of "Primetime Noles" former Sunshine Network and current Tampa Bay Lightning anchor Paul Kennedy joins Tom, KJ and Osceola Insider Bob Ferrante as we discuss Doak upgrades, Alabama-FSU, and more just 10 days out from game 1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Badgers football is less than 10 days away and in this episode of the podcast, Alex and KJ talk the big picture. Barry Alvarez believes in Coach Fickell, do you? Let's dive in - Welcome to the IKE Badgers Podcast! Subscribing, leaving a five-star review on the Apple Podcasts, and telling a friend is the #1 way to help the show.Follow IKE Badgers on Twitter for Live-Tweeting of Badgers Football @IKE_BadgersFan of the music? Stream "IKE Music" on SpotifyLearn more about the #1 podcast network in the state of Wisconsin by visiting ikepodcastnetwork.com@welcometoike

Hour 2. KJ Reacts to the Patriots preseason win over the Vikings. Efton Chism looks to be a lock for the roster. Tom Carroll joins the show. What Patriots players is KJ "high" on?

Hour 1. KJ can't help but be excited about Trevor Story's resurgence. Can the Red Sox catch the Blue Jays in the AL East race? Callers and texters weigh in on all things Red Sox

The effort you put into growing—whether it's emotional control, fitness habits, or mindset shifts—is changing you, even if you can't see the results in real time. One day, life will test you… and the “new you” will show up. In this episode, we share a personal story from a day on the water that could have gone sideways—but instead became a win—because of years of small, unseen work. We'll talk about why growth is often invisible in the moment, how to keep showing up for yourself, and how those habits eventually shine when it matters most.Enjoy!K+J

The Podcast is Back, but with some new host. The Youth have taken over. Mason, Kj, and Jaziel share testimonies and inspire other youth on this week's episode of God's United Podcast.

Things go off the rails when actors KJ Apa (Riverdale) and John Owen Lowe (Unstable) drop in on Rob Lowe! After losing their shirts, they get into KJ's Samoan heritage, AI, visitation dreams, the relationship between self-discovery and sobriety, gratitude, and KJ's new film The Map That Leads to You. A certain Schwarzenegger also makes an appearance.  Make sure to subscribe to the show on YouTube at YouTube.com/@LiterallyWithRobLowe! Got a question for Rob? Call our voicemail at 323-570-4551. Your question could get featured on the show!

Khullani Abdullahi is the founder of Techné AI, a Chicago-based consultancy that helps organizations adopt and govern artificial intelligence responsibly. In this episode, KJ and Khullani discuss the realities of AI adoption in business, the coming "white collar depression," and how leaders and organizations can prepare for a rapidly changing future. Khullani shares her journey from Somali refugee to tech entrepreneur, and offers practical advice for navigating disruption, building resilient teams, and staying ahead of the curve. Key Takeaways: [0:00] Extraordinary leadership in the age of AI requires transparency, adaptability, and preparing teams for change. [08:41] Most organizations are unprepared for AI adoption, leading to chaos and confusion; Khullani helps companies move beyond hype to real strategy. [19:56] Khullani’s background as a Somali refugee shaped her drive for security, adaptability, and non-traditional career choices. [38:24] The majority of white-collar workers may become redundant in the next 10 years; only the most creative and adaptable roles will remain. [49:26] Leaders must invest in AI education and create open cultures to ensure their teams’ future success—even beyond their current organization. [25:35] Khullani warns against over-reliance on AI: “Be mindful of striking a balance and ensuring that your own amazing, extraordinary cognitive critical thinking analysis, synthesis skills…that you don’t abdicate all of that beautiful capacity and capability by overlying on the tools.” Quote of the Show [25:35]:“We are seeing human intellectual ability degrade in real time as we outsource more of our thinking to the machines and to the algorithms. I would be very mindful of striking a balance and ensuring that you don’t abdicate all that beautiful capacity and capability by overlying on the tools.” — Khullani Abdullahi Join our Anti-PR newsletter where we’re keeping a watchful and clever eye on PR trends, PR fails, and interesting news in tech so you don't have to. You're welcome. Want PR that actually matters? Get 30 minutes of expert advice in a fast-paced, zero-nonsense session from Karla Jo Helms, a veteran Crisis PR and Anti-PR Strategist who knows how to tell your story in the best possible light and get the exposure you need to disrupt your industry. Click here to book your call: https://info.jotopr.com/free-anti-pr-eval Ways to connect with Khullani Abdullahi: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/khullani Company Websites: https://techne.ai/ How to get more Disruption/Interruption: Amazon Music - https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/eccda84d-4d5b-4c52-ba54-7fd8af3cbe87/disruption-interruption Apple Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disruption-interruption/id1581985755 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/6yGSwcSp8J354awJkCmJlDSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of Unspeakable, KJ explores the tragic case of Samantha Koenig, an 18-year-old barista who disappeared from Anchorage, Alaska, on February 1, 2012. KJ details the events surrounding her abduction by Israel Keyes, offering a chilling narrative of her last moments at the coffee shop and the investigative journey that ensued. Follow “Crime Wire Weekly” on it's new channel HERE:Apple Podcasts  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-crime-wire-weekly/id1815864889Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/3zyrgjtW6gLUVbicJaYXV9?si=0dbf4983938344a2 Amazon Music https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3738411d-828e-4138-9976-223ab5de2c87/the-crime-wire-weekly#israelkeyes #serial #podcast #truecrime #unspeakable

REMASTERED FOR 2025: Our most popular episode of all time. Listen in as longtime Burners talk about the dynamic aspects of thriving in Black Rock City: mental, physical, material, and relational.Andie, kbot, Molly, Stuart, and Vav explore:socks secretsFOMO variantssaying yes and saying nogiving and accepting helpNo Friends Mondayand much more and other and new!Featuring cameos from longtime Burners: Anjelika, Chef Juke, Crimson Rose, DA, Dave X, Halcyon, KJ, and Lulu Lurine.They discuss doing it all, doing it right, and doing it wrong, as access to being real.Don't just pack. Prepare. Here's how to have BRC overwhelm you in a good way.Black Rock City 2025Burning Man JournalJohn Craigie (YouTube) LIVE.BURNINGMAN.ORG

In this episode KJ reviews the legend of the Lake Tianchi Monster. Bill covers a Bigfoot sighting from Marble Mountain which is also the location of one of the best video accounts of a Bigfoot sighting. And finally we will cover some great listener mail. Please join us!Thank you for listening!www.bigfootterrorinthewoods.comProduced by: "Bigfoot Terror in the Woods L.L.C."

In this episode of Gun Talk Hunt, host KJ sits down with Andrew Maxwell, co-host of the Southern Outdoorsmen Podcast, to dive deep into southeastern deer hunting strategies. From the challenges of hunting whitetail in thick pine country to identifying high-value terrain features like thermal hubs and habitat diversity, Andrew shares the woodsmanship skills and scouting techniques that consistently produce results on public land.Whether you're chasing Alabama bucks or looking to sharpen your deer hunting skills anywhere in the country, this episode is packed with proven tips from a seasoned outdoorsman.This Gun Talk Hunt is brought to you by SnapSafe, Timney Triggers, Range Ready Studios, Remington Ammunition, and Savage Arms.About Gun Talk HuntGun Talk Media's Gun Talk Hunt, with Kevin “KJ” Jarnagin, pairs decades of experience with today's latest tools and technology to help you succeed in the field. Whether it runs or flies - no matter what game you pursue - Gun Talk Hunt is a multi-platform podcast that gives today's hunters a voice in the digital world.For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLCGun Talk Hunt 08.11.25Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.

In this episode KJ gets the creep on by covering yet another account with the Black-eyed Children. Bill covers a frightening Bigfoot encounter up in the mountains outside of Boulder, CO. And finally we will cover some great listener mail. Please join us! Thank you for listening! www.bigfootterrorinthewoods.com Produced by: "Bigfoot Terror in the Woods L.L.C."

How dare you? That's the first question KJ asked Ally Carter, whose name is “synonymous with hilarious action and heart-pounding romance” (TRUE). Is KJ outraged? Hell no. It's a legit question. Ally's books are so so much fun, with wild action scenes befitting a Bond movie (or a Jason Bourne, OBVIOUSLY) and plots that trot the globe while dancing backwards in high heels and KJ really wants to know—how did Ally give herself permission to just go there? To write the dreamy, wild, sure it could happen but also we don't even care because we're so in it story that scares many of us (especially ex-journo KJ, who wastes far far too much time on such non dramatic questions as “but how would someone with that job pay for health insurance? and “technically, how much snow could that unit make in one night?). Also asked: how did you learn to write action so well? Do you take all kinds of crazy self defense classes? Or dissect movie fight scenes in slo-mo? Are you fun to watch a spy movie with, or terrible?I would have asked her if she used to BE a spy…but then she would have had to kill me.LINKSNational Spy MuseumThe Blonde Who Came In from the ColdThe Most Wonderful Crime of the YearThe Blonde IdentityAlly CarterAlly's rec: Netflix: The ResidenceInstagram @theallycarter The newsletterHey everyone, it's Jenny Nash. This episode happens to feature an Author Accelerator book coach. Author Accelerator is the company I founded more than 10 years ago to lead the emerging book coaching industry. If you've been curious about what it takes to become a successful book coach, which is to say, someone who makes money, meaning, and joy out of serving writers, I've just created a bunch of great content to help you learn more. You can access it all by going to bookcoaches.com/waitlist. We'll be enrolling a new cohort of students in our certification program in October, so now's a perfect time to learn more and start making plans for a whole new career.Transcript below!EPISODE 460 - TRANSCRIPTJennie NashHey everyone, it's Jennie Nash, founder and CEO of Author Accelerator, the company I started more than 10 years ago to lead the emerging book coaching industry. In October, we'll be enrolling a new cohort of certification students who will be going through programs in either fiction, nonfiction, or memoir, and learning the editorial, emotional and entrepreneurial skills that you need to be a successful book coach. If you've been curious about book coaching and thinking that it might be something you want to do for your next career move, I'd love to teach you more about it, you can go to bookcoaches.com/waitlist to check out a free training I have—that's bookcoaches.com/waitlist. The training is all about how to make money, meaning and joy out of serving writers. Fall is always a great time to start something new. So if you're feeling called to do this, go check out our training and see if this might be right for you. We'd love to have you join us.Multiple SpeakersIs it recording? Now it's recording. Yay! Go ahead. This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone. Try to remember what I'm supposed to be doing. All right, let's start over. Awkward pause. I'm going to rustle some papers. Okay. Now, one, two, three.KJ Dell'AntoniaHey, I'm KJ Dell'Antonia, and this is Hashtag AmWriting the weekly podcast about writing all the things—short things, long things, pitches, proposals, fiction, nonfiction. We're the podcast about getting things done. And I'm going to be solo this week because I am interviewing, and I'm so excited to interview one Ally Carter, whose name, I'm stealing this from her bio, because it was such a great line—is synonymous with hilarious action and heart-pounding romance. And as someone who's read much of it, I can vouch kids. So Ally's most recent big book that you've probably seen around was The Blonde Identity . Her current book that you're going to want to go straight out and grab is The Blonde Who Came In from the Cold, and her other book that she wrote just for me—because it was like exactly what I needed in a book in that moment and I really appreciate it. I'm glad other people got to read it, but it was really, for me— The Most Wonderful Crime of the Year those are her adult books. She's got a ton of young-adult books, also with heart pounding action and hilarious...wait, heart-pounding romance, hilarious action. I feel those are exchangeable. And even some middle grade if you've got some kids who might be reading in those lines. So Ally does all the things, and we're going to find out how, and immediately be able to do it ourselves. Ha! Ally, thanks for coming.Ally CarterThank you so much for having me, KJ. I appreciate it.KJ Dell'AntoniaWe are super excited.Ally CarterI also wrote The Most Wonderful Crime [The Most Wonderful Crime of the Year] just for me, because it's— that's like, I love a mystery, and I pick them up, and I'm like, this would be great. Where's the romance? And then I love a romance, and I pick it up, and I'm like, where's the mystery? And so that's, that's how Most Wonderful Crime [The Most Wonderful Crime of the Year ] came to be. It is two great genres better together.KJ Dell'AntoniaAlso, it's writers in a—like writers in a mansion, with secrets and surprise identities, and things people can do that no one knows they can do, which is my jam. Yeah, really enjoyed it.Ally CarterThank you.KJ Dell'AntoniaThank you for that. Not that I didn't I love The Blonde Identity. My daughter has it right now, and she's super excited, because I can give her The Blonde Who Came In from the Cold, early, because I might have gotten an early copy. So she'll be reading that on the beach next week after she finishes the first one.Ally CarterThat is some good cool mom points right there.KJ Dell'AntoniaWell, it is, yeah, and they're rare. But that is a great thing about your—I mean, my daughters are 21 and 19, so they're older, but I would have given the blonde books and The Most Wonderful Crime to, you know, a 16... ?... like, they're not—not that I don't actually give some pretty steamy stuff to my kids, but if you're not somebody who does that, they're steamy, but they're not—anyway...Ally CarterYeah, there are books that, like, grandma and mom and daughter can all read togetherKJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, I was just going to say I would give them to my mom too. Yeah. I mean, they're just super fun. Because sometimes the better test is not “Would I give it to my daughter?” It's “Would I give it to my mom?”Ally CarterYou're exactly right. Agreed, agreed.KJ Dell'AntoniaSo my first question is this: how dare you?! Okay, and now you're like, wait, what?! No, seriously, like, your books are—the plots are so out there, and glorious, and outrageous, and the action scenes are wild, and they're sort of everything you fantasize about in a spy romance novel. And as a former journalist, I spend a lot of time sitting around staring at my plot thinking things like, yes, but how would this person have health insurance? And I feel like you've transcended that. So can you talk to me and all of us about how you've, you know, embraced this world of the wild, glorious, fun, and outrageous in your plotting?Ally CarterYou know, that's a—thank you. First of all, that's a lovely compliment. I really credit it toward, you know, how most things are in my life and my career—it was total accident and sheer dumb luck. So 20 years ago—I realized not long ago—like, literally 20 years ago this spring, I saw it. I'd Tell You I Love You, But Then I'd Have to Kill You. And I was, you know, big dumb kid, didn't know what I was doing, sheer dumb luck, had this amazing idea. And most of all, I had an amazing idea at a time when the YA [young adult] genre was just expanding exponentially—like the shelves of shelf space at Barnes and Noble was getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And so it was a big tent, and there was room for everybody. And so I was lucky in that I got in there. I was especially lucky because I had a brilliant editor named Donna Bray. And Donna could see, like the shift coming—like, she could see Twilight and the, like, the move to paranormal, and the move to, you know, moving away from contemporary fiction to genre fiction. And she was like, we have to get this out fast. And so we crashed it. And so I sold it in, like, April or May of 2005, and then I had to go to copy editing in October, and I had—I had 32 pages.KJ Dell'AntoniaSorry, (laughing)Ally CarterAnd a day job!KJ Dell'AntoniaOh, my goodness!Ally CarterSo I had the summer of absolute deadline. I would come home from my day job, I would eat a fast dinner, and I would write till midnight. But this was also back, like, before we really had smartphones in our pockets all the time—definitely pre, like, social media—and so that's what you did. And I'm like, man, if I did that every day, think about how much writing I would get done today.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah.Ally CarterBut because I was so fast, the turnaround there was so fast, I didn't have time to, like, go down a rabbit hole of, well, exactly what type of nylon cord would they use to rappel into such and such—you know, I just got—I made it up, and I got away with it. And so I realized that, you know, I would—I did do a lot of research on actual tradecraft.KJ Dell'AntoniaRight.Ally CarterSo the things like the girl—there's a scene where the girls have to go through the boy's garbage. And there's this—you know, there are scenes where they're, you know, planting bugs and those types of things. Those—I watched documentaries, I read a lot of, like, actual decommissioned, sort of old CIA handbooks and things.. The International Spy Museum has a wonderful reference section, and you can actually order...KJ Dell'AntoniaOh, that's cool.Ally CarterOld, like, World War Two training manuals and things. It's really greatKJ Dell'AntoniaI did not know that.Ally CarterSo I did do that. What I did not do was I didn't worry about, like, the brand name of what you might call it. So as a general rule, I tell my readers, like, the more specific something is in the book, the more likely it is I made it up. So when I'm like, well, then she did the one death ski maneuver—and, like, I don't know what the one death ski maneuver is, but they don't either—I made it up. But the actual sort of bones of what the school would teach and how they would teach, it was very accurate.KJ Dell'AntoniaWell, it must have come in handy because you have another school in the current book.Ally CarterYeah. And it's—it was a little harder, because it is, you know, it's not for kids, and so it has to have a little bit more of an air of sophistication. And I wanted to base it off of the actual CIA training facility, “The Farm,” which is at Camp Peary—which is in the book, what I couldn't figure out were things like, do they sleep in apartments? Do they have a dorm? Is there a are there barracks? Are there, you know, is there, like, a big cafeteria? Are they?KJ Dell'AntoniaVery few people will know what's real, and they can't tell you, right?Ally CarterThey can't tell me. And so I actually, when I was on tour for The Blonde Identity, I was in D.C., and I did a wonderful event, had hundreds of readers there, and they were like my Gallagher Girls who had grown up and now they all are spies. I mean, they like, literally work for the CIA. They're literally with, you know, "I'm with Homeland Security." You know, several of them were like, I can't actually tell you where I work, but you were very popular there and so, and I actually did a like, show of hands, like, if you can say so, how many of you have been to The Farm and, like, multiple hands went up.KJ Dell'AntoniaOh, wow!Ally CarterAnd I'm like we're talking when this is finished. So I got a little bit, but not very much, you know. And I guess the thing also with “The Farm” is, you know, they bring in, like, their actual undercover operatives to train there, but there are a lot of different groups that also use that facility. So, for example, I think I'm not dreaming this. I think this is true. Like, if you are an ambassador or an ambassador's family, and you and you are going, maybe not like the ambassador to London, but if you're going to, like, you know, someplace that could be a little bit dangerous, they'll send you there for, like, evasive driving training and things like that. So you get a little bit of training. So it's not just spies who train at Camp Peary, it's multiple groups.KJ Dell'AntoniaI have a new life goal now, which is to never need evasive driving training.Ally CarterRight?! And see, I kind of want to learn how to do it. I don't want to need it…KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah no, no but no, it's not to need it. I don't want to need it.Ally CarterI want to know how to do it.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah. Well, yeah, you could, you could use it. Yeah, I just—it. I miss—your books inspire the writer in me to remember, like you said, that very few people care what brand of nylon rope you would use to repel, and from there, it's a pretty short step to, you know, whether or not you can really stop a cable car halfway.Ally CarterYeah.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, we're and we're not going to but.. It's just...Ally CarterAnd the way I see it is, if you are the person who knows what brand of rope it is... even if i get the rope right, i could get everything else wrong.KJ Dell'AntoniaYou're either not reading this, or you don't care.Ally CarterYeah. There... This is, this is not for them, probably.KJ Dell'AntoniaOr if it is, it they've they're there, like...Ally CarterThey're there.KJ Dell'AntoniaThat's fine.Ally CarterYou either buying in or you're out. And that's fine. And I—and nothing but respect to the people who do know that? Because now, I grew up on a farm, and so I can't read, like, cowboy books, because I'm like, oh gosh, geez Louise, of course, your barn burned down. You put that hay in there way too soon—you are you really baling green hay?KJ Dell'AntoniaThey're literally haying in my field right now.Ally CarterRight. You know, I'm like, seriously, seriously. This is, you know, you're, you're, you're not. You didn't do a semen test on your bull? Like—you know?"KJ Dell'Antonia"You are not milking that cow. I know how you're supposed to hold your hands."Ally CarterExactly!KJ Dell'AntoniaSee I did.Ally CarterYeah, I'm, I'm not, I'm not here for and so I'm, like, this is the same thing. Like spies have no reason be reading me. I have no reason reading the things that I do know about. Because it's, you know, it's, it's just, you're also, it's not exciting to me. And so I'm sure most spies, you know, there's a line in...KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah it's not a fantasy.Ally CarterYeah, so…KJ Dell'AntoniaIt can't be a fantasy, because you're too stuck on, you know, the...Ally CarterExactly, and so...KJ Dell'AntoniaThe reality that our hay baling chute is broken, and therefore we will need multiple people tomorrow to go around and pick up each individual bale…Ally CarterYeah.KJ Dell'AntoniaAnd put it on a flatbed truck, and drive to the barn, and take each individual bale off the flatbed truck, and then stack them in the barn. Y'all are missing my arm gestures, but Ally knows of which I speak.Ally CarterI know, I know those gestures. You got to buck it up with your knee. It's a whole—it's—it is not easy work. It is very hard work. And so…KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, I'm hoping not to go out there, but I know I will.Ally CarterOh no, you don't want to do that, and you will itch for days.KJ Dell'AntoniaI've done it. I've done it for years and I know I'm going to end up there. It's my birthday tomorrow too.Ally CarterOh no, that's not the…Yeah, so it's the reality. I think it's very easy—also, when reading, as a reader—I hate it when it's very clear that an author has done a ton of research and they're not going to let it go to waste. Yeah. And so there's like, you know, they'll introduce the thing, and then they'll have, like, a paragraph explaining all of the things that they have learned. I'm like, this serves no purpose whatsoever.KJ Dell'AntoniaI also thank my editor for my leaving out the entire history of Prohibition-era alcohol rules between Kansas and Missouri in The Chicken Sisters.Ally CarterYep. See, if you, if you want to write that, the nonfiction is right there, you can— you've got it. So I like to do enough research to inform the story. And, you know, there are definitely things, you know, scenes and lines and wonderful things that have come from the research. But I never do research just so I know, like, what kind of rope it is.KJ Dell'AntoniaRight.Ally CarterI—you know, that's that I think then, then, then also, are you doing research, or are you procrastinating?KJ Dell'AntoniaWell...Ally CarterBecause I think most people are just procrastinating.KJ Dell'AntoniaWe all know the answer to that. So how about the action scenes? You write such great action scenes, but I am also not a reader who's like picturing, well, clearly at this point, he's upside down and her hand. You know, that's not how I read anything. I just kind of go (shwoop) through that. So how do you handle writing them? Are you like slowing down action films so you can dissect the movies?Ally CarterNo, I really don't like writing action scenes. They are hard, and it feels like I've done everything, like they're okay. Well, hey, here we are. We're doing that again, but there. They are. They come with the job. And so I think most of all, you just have to remember, sort of the blocking of it. Like, okay, who is where? The other hard thing that that comes and, you know, movies have it so much easier. Like, you don't need a name for the for the six bad guys, that black Willow...KJ Dell'AntoniaRight,, the one on the right, and the one behind... Yeah, yeah, no.Ally CarterAnd so I'm like, Okay, but how is the reader keeping these different so, you know, like, well, one of them has a has glasses, and the other one has a goatee. Okay, well, then from that point forward, I the author just call them glasses...KJ Dell'AntoniaGlasses and goatee. Right.Ally CarterAnd so you have to remember, like, okay, glasses is down. Goatees still at large, you know, or whatever.KJ Dell'AntoniaIs there a special copy editor for that?Ally CarterThey're not special, but that is definitely can fall into a copy editor's purview, especially things like during that fight sequence. Okay, well, it was 100 pages ago, but it was also yesterday that your heroine got shocked. Is she really fighting at full strength? Oh, ouch, you know. So that type of thing, because, again, reader wise, that's, that was, I've, that was the midpoint. I'm to the climax now. But timeline wise, no, that was yesterday.KJ Dell'AntoniaRight.Ally CarterAnd so the...KJ Dell'AntoniaAnd probably with some readers, reader wise, that was an hour ago.Ally CarterYeah! So...KJ Dell'AntoniaI mean you know, we're eating this up.Ally CarterExactly.KJ Dell'AntoniaSo much faster to read than to write.Ally CarterSo you have to think about those types of things. Like I wrote that two months ago, but nope, it's still right there.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah.Ally CarterSo that's the kind of thing that, you know, again, you can't really worry about in a first draft. Like, let that. That's future-use problem.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah. Now, in contrast to, you know, the wild plotting and the crazy, enjoyable, delicious action, your people feel, you know super, super real. They have, ah, big reasons for being the way that they are, but the feelings feel real. I think that is an amazing um, contrast. Do you start with the, do you start with, like, you know, the person's flaw, or what it would there's some term of art for this which I have forgotten. Or do you start with, I need a person who, or does it vary book by book?Ally CarterThank you. I, you know, it's I spend a lot of time with that.KJ Dell'AntoniaThat's why they work.Ally CarterThank you.KJ Dell'AntoniaNo, seriously, no one. I mean, The Blonde Identity would maybe be fun if it wasn't also, like, you really want her to figure out who she is, and you really want to know why is this happening, and what is up with and like, you want all that for the character you believe in, in her.Ally CarterAnd that's always I find as much about tone as anything, this particular sub- genre, it can go wacky or kooky really fast, like it's very easy. You know, I like to say that spy movies exist on a spectrum that range from get smart to Zero Dark Thirty.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah.Ally CarterAnything along that spectrum is a spy movie. But those could not be more different. And so are we? Are we doing like James Bond, like he's cool and suave, but he also has gadgets, or are we doing like he's, you know, kind of bumbling with gadgets? Or are we doing it's very realistic?KJ Dell'AntoniaWell are we doing Roger Moore James Bond, or are we doing … um…guy who now models for…Ally CarterDaniel Craig?KJ Dell'AntoniaThank you—oy vey—Daniel Craig, which are very different. James Bonds really…Ally CarterVery different James Bonds, because I've heard people the James Bond people talk about the Daniel Craig, James Bond doesn't exist without Jason Bourne.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah.Ally CarterThat's who they looked at and so all of these things, you know. And so when I'm trying to figure it out, and I think that's one of the hardest things about genre bending romance, whether you're bending fantasy and romance or horror and romance, or romance and mystery or romance and action, or whatever, you could only really write in the Venn diagram space, where there's overlap. And so I couldn't, you know, the realistic version of this is not something where people are falling in love, like it's, you know, it's too dark. And it's definitely not a comedy, definitely not a comedy. So you're, you have to find the place where, no, they're in real, actual peril. This is really terrible. This is... they really might dieKJ Dell'AntoniaAnd they understand that.Ally CarterAnd they understand that they get that and also, but they still have time to, you know, okay, well, now I'm going to, you know, now we're going to slow dance, you know, you still have to find those times. And the other thing is, you know, you have to figure out just where on the spectrum you want to be and lean into that. Like, if you want to write, like, the kooky, sort of Agent Cody Banks of it all, then you have to do that. But then you have to realize the other parts of the spy kind of world that you can't touch. And so it's—you're just—you're always threading needles. It's, it is a, it is a task of, of absolutely threading needles all the time.KJ Dell'AntoniaI think that, yeah, when it comes to tone, where on the spectrum do you want to be, is like, like maybe one of the greatest questions that I have heard. And it's just one that, you know, I think we all wrestle with.Ally CarterWell, and I've had people that really don't—people who should get it—who don't get it. So, you know, I was in a meeting one time with some Hollywood producers who were looking at some of my stuff, and I said, “Well, tonally, where do you want it to be?” And they were like, “What do you mean?” I said, “Well, do you want it to be like, you know, Mr. and Mrs. Smith or Bourne Identity?” And they said, “Well, those are the same thing.” And I was like…KJ Dell'AntoniaNo, no, no, no!Ally Carter“This meeting is over. Thank you very much”.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah.Ally CarterIt's... I don't understand how people don't get that, but to me, I spend 90% of my time worried about it. Oh, I remember now what I was going to say earlier. I got my start—and I'm never going to be, like, a full-time or big-time of this—but I've done some screenwriting. . And so there's a screenwriting podcast [Scriptnotes] by two guys who are very big, very dominant—dominant—screenwriter. One of them did, like, the Charlie's Angels movies and the Aladdin remake and all those. The other one does The Last of Us and a bunch of big, like, HBO shows. And, um, they always talk about "the Want song". So in every Disney musical, the first—the first song—sets up the world. It's "Belle," you know, like, you know, wandering through town. The second song is the "whatever she wants." And so, you know Moana, you know, "See the line where the sky and the sea meet, it calls me"—like, Moana wants to travel. She wants adventure. And so I spend a lot of time, when I'm setting up these characters, thinking about what their "Want song" would be. And so, like, for The Most Wonderful Crime of the Year, her "Want song" is, "I want to be Eleanor."KJ Dell'AntoniaRight.Ally CarterYou know she wants to be Eleanor Ashley [from The Most Wonderful Crime of the Year], who is my, like, fake off-brand Agatha Christie, and so that's, that's what you have to think about a lot like, you know, what Alex [from The Blonde Who Came in from the Cold] wants is to sort of be free like she wants, she wants to be enough. She wants to pay her—you know? She has paid her debt for—you know, sort of having been born strong and healthy, where her identical twin has been born very, very sick. And so she, she wants—and she wants to never lay eyes on Michael Kingsley [also from The Blonde Who Came in from the Cold], ever again, who was her, you know, on again, off again, partner, slash love interest. And so that's—you know, that I always start with that, what is their wound? What is the thing that hurt them in the past that they're trying to get over? And what is their want?KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah.Ally CarterAnd almost always, what would they realize over the course of the book is that the thing that they want is not the thing that they need.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah.Ally CarterAnd so that's, that's an Ally Carter book. That's an Ally Carter character progress.KJ Dell'AntoniaThat's it. Now everyone can do it.Ally CarterYeah.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah. Oh, but if it were that easy, everyone would do it, right? Um, no, this... this is amazing and delightful. I hope really helpful for people. I got distracted by taking some notes on what you just said. So, people—for me, for the Post-its on my computer, as well as, oh my gosh, so many Post-its, so many Post-its—let's talk just a little bit about the difference between YA [young adult] and adult when you're—fundamentally—I mean, some people sort of switch genres entirely. You were writing very similarly toned books for different audiences. How? How do you think of that evolution?Ally CarterThat's—in a way—yes, I did switch audiences. In another way, they're the exact same readers. And so that's—that's an interesting and weird thing about YA is, about every three years, you have to make all new readers because they have grown up and they've aged out of you. And even if they haven't aged out of you, they have what I call "cooled out of you."KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, yeah.Ally CarterAnd they're like, I liked those books when I was a little kid, and so current me can't possibly like those books, because those are little kid books. And so I was on the phone during the pandemic with my friend Rachel Hawkins and Rachel had written YA for a long time, and then she switched to adult. And I was talking about... do I...? What do I...? I need to sell something. Do I sell another middle grade? Do I sell a YA [young adult]? Like, what do I sell? And she says, you sell an adult. You sell an adult book that appeals to your Gallagher Girl readers. And I, I said, oh, Rachel, I've spent, you know, 15 years building a career in YA, I've got, you know... And she said, your readers aren't there anymore. They are the girls who read you when they were 12, ten years ago, and are 22 now. And I'm like, oh, that's right, they are. They've grown up. And so I—and I had the idea for “the spy twins” and had tried to do it as YA, and then at one point I even tried to do it as middle grade, and I could never make it work. And the problem wasn't, one of the twins wakes up with amnesia and somebody's trying to kill her—that I could pull off. The problem was, how and why is her identical twin on the run? And what does she have? And, like, you know, she...KJ Dell'AntoniaShe needs a longer history than you can have as a teenager.Ally CarterYeah, exactly. Like, is she actually working for the CIA, like, because then again, we get into Agent Cody Banks territory, then it's, you know, well, we've got a super-secret branch of the CIA who recruits kids. I'm like, no, you don't that's stupid. Like so...KJ Dell'AntoniaAnd she's been there since she was 10, and now she's on the lam.Ally CarterExactly.KJ Dell'AntoniaYou know, and then at age 12, she went rogue.Ally CarterYeah. And then you've got, like, well, no, you know, it's a Parent Trap situation, and one of them was raised by a spy and one of them was raised by ordinary people. I'm like, oh, maybe... I don't know, but, you know, I just couldn't quite make it work. And so I was talking to Rachel, and I said, what am I supposed to do? Just dust off that old spy twin idea, except now, instead of a super-secret organization, she's just on the run from the CIA? And then I was like, wait a second.KJ Dell'AntoniaWell yes!Ally CarterIf she's 30... she can—so every single problem and logic challenge that I had with that premise went away once those characters became 30. And so I just—and it was the easiest writing I've ever done. I feel almost guilty about how easy that book was to write; because I'd been, I'd been working at it and hammering at that idea for so long. And so it was almost like, instead of starting it at the beginning, I started it at the end of the writing process, where you have that one, like, little linchpin thing that you think, oh, but what if I do this? And then the whole plot just...KJ Dell'AntoniaRight.Ally CarterSo I started it there. I started at the...KJ Dell'AntoniaWow!Ally CarterDomino moment. And I'm spoiled, because it'll never be that easy again. But that's, that's how the transition went. And, you know, it's been great because my readers, they're so excited to see me. It's like, they're, I hear from readers all the time, they're like, you know, it feels like you wrote this just for me. I grew up with you, and now you're writing books for me again, and that has been very full circle and very, very fulfilling.KJ Dell'AntoniaThat, that's great. Well, you're writing them for me too. So, love that, and I think for a lot of our listeners—who I really think are going to enjoy this episode.Ally CarterThank you.KJ Dell'AntoniaSo before I let you go, can I ask you what you have read and loved lately?Ally CarterOh, sweet mercy. I have been so underwater, on a—on a book, and it's been the kind of—it's been the kind of deadline and the kind of book... You know how the old adage is so true that you never learn how to write a book—you just learn how to write the book you're writing right now. And so this one has just... and when I get that way, I don't enjoy reading because my inner critic can't turn off. But I will share a show that I loved, and I—they just announced that they're not doing a season two, and I'm heartbroken over it. And that is, on Netflix, there's a Shonda Rhimes show called The Residence, and it's a murder mystery set at the White House. You know, somebody drops dead during a state dinner. And it's got kind of a kooky detective and a wonderful, colorful cast, and it's very, very funny, but it also—it threads that tonal needle, where, like, no, no, there was a murder. This is still serious, but, oh, by the way, I'm going to go look at the body, but first I saw a bird I want to check out, you know. And so it's just—tonally and voice-wise—it does really amazing things. And so if any of your listeners are looking for a really great, like, eight-episode series, it's great. I could not recommend it more—The Residence on Netflix.KJ Dell'AntoniaThat sounds super fun. Well, I am in the midst of The Blonde Who Came In from the Cold. So, you know, I don't normally recommend a book until I know if the writer is going to stick a landing. But I feel quite confident in this one, and have enjoyed—as you can obviously hear from the podcast—the rest of Ally's work. So I am going to just push all of you listeners to, you know, head out there, grab the new one, grab the old one, and have a good time with them.Ally CarterAww, thank you.KJ Dell'AntoniaYou're welcome. Thanks so much for being here. Oh, should people follow you on social media? Do you do anything fun? Are you...?Ally CarterI do nothing fun. I'm not fun at all. I'm mostly on Instagram; I guess at this point I'm the Ally Carter over there. I have a couple of kind of defunct Facebook pages that I update occasionally. I just updated it for the first time, evidently, in two years. So that was fun. I'm on Threads very seldom. I used to be on Twitter and I still have that account I don't update it very often. Um, but yeah—and of course, my newsletter, like the newsletter is—I think we need to come back. We all need to get back to the newsletter, because it will deliver the news directly to your inbox. And so if you want to make sure you don't miss any like, you know, tour events, which, by the way, I'm coming to Boston on tour in a couple of weeks. So looking forward to that a lot. I think its Lovestruck Books? Is that Boston?KJ Dell'AntoniaProbably yeah.Ally CarterYeah.KJ Dell'AntoniaThat's the new romance bookstore there. I've been with Sarina a couple of times, and yeah, it's a great—it is a beautiful store. Like, every detail. Their bathrooms are phenomenal. That's how wonderful this store is. So, very cool. All right, I will link up the newsletter in the show notes, and yeah, about, you know, once every week, I decide to just cancel all the rest of my social media and only do my AmReading email. And then I imagine what my agent would say. And yeah, I don't do it, but...Ally CarterIt's, you know, and I feel like I'm such a broken record, like, oh, you know, go buy my book. Oh, go, you know, I'm going to be here on tour. Oh, this is how you get signed books. But—and I just say over and over and over again—and then inevitably, and this really happened to me one time, I was sitting at the LAX Airport waiting on a flight home, and I got an irate message from a reader that I never come to LA. And I was like, I did an event here last night—like, I was at the Barnes and Noble at The Grove or wherever—last night. And so we said, we—it feels like we are just beating a dead horse letting people know about these things, but it's so easy for things to get lost. And so...KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah! Jess tells the story—that's one of my other co-hosts—about, you know, someone who had come up to her, really one of her biggest fans, “Good new book.” And, “I get your idea, I love this, and I love that you wrote, like, knew a lot.” And then she said, “Oh, well, did you enjoy my latest book?” And they're like, “You have a new book?!”Ally CarterIt happens every time. And so, you know, it's—it's just part of the business at this point.KJ Dell'AntoniaYou've got to do it—it's just part of the business. All right. Well, thank you again...Ally CarterThank you.KJ Dell'AntoniaAnd as always, listeners until next week keep your butt in the chair and your head in the game.Jess LaheyThe Hashtag AmWriting Podcast is produced by Andrew Perella. Our intro music, aptly titled Unemployed Monday, was written and played by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their time and their creative output, because everyone deserves to be paid for their work. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Everyone wants the secret to long-term results—but the truth is, it's not flashy. It's not intense. It's not exciting.It's mundane.In this episode, we dig into the not-so-glamorous habits that actually drive progress—like prepping your food, showing up to lift, walking after meals, and sticking to your plan even when it feels boring.They'll talk about:Why consistency beats intensity (every time)Real-life examples of “mundane” habits that compound over timeHow to push through the funk when you feel stuck or unmotivatedSimple strategies for building systems that lastIf you've been waiting for motivation to show up—this episode is your reminder that discipline is what builds results.Enjoy!K+J

Audio Siar Keluar Sekejap Episod 166 dibuka dengan promosi Ombak Festival 2025 di Desaru Coast pada 12–14 September. KJ dan Shahril bersama tetamu Karina Ridzuan (CEO Interim DRH) membincangkan pelancongan berasaskan pengalaman, potensi Desaru sebagai destinasi serantau, barisan artis antarabangsa dan ASEAN, aktiviti keluarga, tawaran gastronomi, serta usaha memastikan manfaat ekonomi turut dinikmati komuniti setempat.Segmen antarabangsa mengulas perkembangan di Gaza susulan pengumuman Perancis, UK dan Kanada untuk mengiktiraf Palestin. KS membincangkan perubahan pendirian blok Barat akibat tekanan awam dan liputan krisis kemanusiaan, namun mempersoalkan sama ada langkah ini mampu mengubah pendirian Israel. Analisis turut menyentuh risiko Israel mempercepat pengusiran rakyat Palestin dan kepentingan memanfaatkan momentum sokongan global.Segmen ekonomi memberi tumpuan kepada rundingan tarif Malaysia–AS di era Trump, termasuk penurunan tarif daripada 25% ke 19%, pembelian tambahan pesawat Boeing oleh Malaysia Aviation Group, komitmen besar Petronas membeli LNG dari AS, pelaburan RM70 bilion di AS, serta risiko tarif 100% terhadap semikonduktor. Episod ini menilai sama ada konsesi yang diberi setimpal dengan manfaat diterima dan potensi kesan terhadap eksport negara. Episod ditutup dengan perbincangan kontroversi Rakan KKM bersama Azrul Mohd Khalib, Ketua Pegawai Eksekutif Galen Centre for Health and Social Policy. Skim ini membolehkan pesakit membayar untuk mempercepat prosedur elektif di hospital awam, namun dikritik kerana berpotensi mewujudkan sistem dua lapis, menambah beban petugas, dan menjejaskan prinsip kesaksamaan kesihatan awam.Ingin jenama anda dikenali oleh ribuan pendengar?Taja episod Keluar Sekejap 2025!Hubungi +6011-1919 1783 atau emel ke commercial@ksmedia.my.

Welcome to Sunrise Life, the podcast where we dive into deep conversations with freelance models. In this episode, join us as we talk to KJ, who shares her journey from being a graphic designer to becoming a full-time freelance model. Listen as she discusses her early experiences in the modeling industry, the challenges of balancing art and life, and the unique freedom that freelancing offers. Discover how KJ transitioned from self-photography to professional shoots and how her background in graphic design has influenced her modeling career. KJ opens up about the support and challenges she faced from family and friends, highlighting her father's eventual acceptance of her career choice. She also shares insightful anecdotes about the freelance modeling community, including a humorous mishap with a photographer and the importance of networking and safety. Tune in to learn about KJ's experiences while traveling for work, her take on the evolving modeling landscape with platforms like OnlyFans, and her thoughts on balancing personal privacy with public exposure. Whether you're a model, a creative, or simply curious about the freelance lifestyle, this episode offers an engaging and honest perspective. Check her out on Instagram! https://www.instagram.com/kj_persuasion/  

Bademadrassen er tom for luft og guttene er tilbake i buret. Kjøtt mates inn i sprekken og det ules bak gitteret. Morten har vært nerrafårr, Ole har sett en mann med én arm og Martin har blitt sugd av havet. Kjøh! Ukas middagstips: Grill. Hold på sommeren. Produsent: Jørgen Vigdal

KJ concludes her look into the disappearance of 19-year-old Sade Robinson after a date with Maxwell Anderson. The discovery of a dismembered leg heightens the urgency to find the killer.Follow “Crime Wire Weekly” on it's new channel HERE:Apple Podcasts   https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-crime-wire-weekly/id1815864889Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/3zyrgjtW6gLUVbicJaYXV9?si=0dbf4983938344a2Amazon Music https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3738411d-828e-4138-9976-223ab5de2c87/the-crime-wire-weekly

Tom and KJ discuss Fall Practice standouts, position groups, Gus Malzahn's offense, and more with Osceola Insider Bob Ferrante. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

n this episode KJ reviews the legend of Skin Walkers. Bill covers an evidential Bigfoot encounter from Northern Idaho while hunting. And finally, we will cover some great listener mail. Please join us!Thank you for listening!www.bigfootterrorinthewoods.comProduced by: "Bigfoot Terror in the Woods L.L.C."

Badgers Camp is heating up and some familiar names are standing out! In today's episode of the podcast, Alex and KJ lean into the veterans returning for Fickle's UW squad and how they can play simple and to their strengths. What are you predicting will happen? Running through the Top 25 pre-season and more - Welcome to the IKE Badgers Podcast! Subscribing, leaving a five-star review on the Apple Podcasts, and telling a friend is the #1 way to help the show.Follow IKE Badgers on Twitter for Live-Tweeting of Badgers Football @IKE_BadgersFan of the music? Stream "IKE Music" on SpotifyLearn more about the #1 podcast network in the state of Wisconsin by visiting ikepodcastnetwork.com@welcometoike

We are in August and Packers Family Night is past us. What are the latest rumors coming out of camp and around the NFL? In today's episode of the podcast, Alex and KJ dive into the topic of Micah Parsons, who requested a trade from the Dallas Cowboys. Is this a player Green Bay should swing for? Covering all things Packers and more - Welcome back to the IKE Packers Podcast!Help the show by telling another Packers fan! Other ways to contribute are by leaving a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts and subscribing wherever you get your podcasts.@IKE_Packers on X

In this episode KJ reviews legend of the mysterious Dark Pyramid that is believed to be underground in rural Alaska. Bill covers a couple of Bigfoot sightings including one in the same area that a sighting was reported on a poplular Bigfoot TV show. And finally we will cover some great listener mail. Please join us! Thank you for listening! www.bigfootterrorinthewoods.com Produced by: "Bigfoot Terror in the Woods L.L.C."

Stevens Roundtable:  Melissa Larson & Stevens Transport's Innovative Recruitment Strategies Welcome back Melissa Larson to the podcast who now serves as the Director of Driver Recruitment at Stevens Transport. In this episode, Melissa shares her journey within the company, the challenges of leading a diverse team, and her goals for driver recruitment. Learn about Stevens Transport's unique training process, its benefits for new drivers, and the opportunities for career growth. Melissa's passion for trucking and career development shines through as she discusses the company's commitment to providing state-of-the-art equipment and creating a positive, cohesive work environment. Russell Connor Eyes Transition Trucking Award with Stevens Transport Trucker Tim Cicciarelli sits down with Russell Connor, a proud military veteran eyeing the 2025 Transition Trucking award. Russell shares his journey from 25 years in the Army to joining Stevens Transport, all thanks to the Troops Into Transportation program. Discover why Russell chose Stevens and the impact a new Kenworth T680 could have on his life. This heartwarming discussion delves into the support from Stevens Transport and the excitement of possibly winning the award. Tune in to hear more about Russell's inspiring transition from military to civilian life. Become a Team Driver for Stevens Transport Discover the transformative world of team driving with Stevens Transport in this insightful discussion. Learn how driving with a partner boosts efficiency, earning potential, and safety, while allowing for nearly constant travel and the enjoyment of America's stunning landscapes. Understand how federal regulations intersect with teamwork logistics, enabling over 5,500 miles a week. Insights on rest strategies, like bunk bed sleeping arrangements, are shared. Stevens Transport explains the advantages of choosing your driving partner and how this approach can elevate your trucking career. Explore team driving's benefits and start your journey to success now. Earn More/Team Up - https://vimeo.com/1020240977 Driver Spotlight: Kelvin "KJ" Johnson Stevens Transport celebrates Kelvin "KJ" Johnson on reaching 4 million miles. KJ has been with Stevens since 1997, working to build a successful career on the road. In this video he shares his story, highlighting what keeps him motivated and the importance of having a supportive team like Stevens Transport. See the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3ifZb2HLF8&list=PL3XfhTDM6LvNKhGiJ65RrK8cb27AZifo3 Stevens Transport August 2025 New Bulletin Stevens Transport brings you the latest updates on the transportation industry in our Monthly News Bulletin! This month, Stevens Transport is gearing up for National Truck Driver Appreciation Week and celebrating recent promotions. You can read more about these stories and others in our quarterly Birdseye Newsletter here: https://www.stevenstransport.com/news/ See the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI3klZ_h2QY Tip of the Steven's Cap - Kevin Collins on 2 major Milestones! Double the celebration, double the success! Please join us in congratulating Kevin Collins on two major milestones, his lease completion with Stevens Transport Contractor Division AND celebrating 10 years with Stevens Transport!  See the celebration here on the Stevens Transport on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/StevensTransport Stevens Transport Employment Resources Pilot/Flying J Rewards App: https://pilotflyingj.com/rewards Become a Driver for Stevens Transport For questions on whether you meet our driver qualifications, please call our Recruiting Department at 1-800-333-8595 or visit: www.stevenstransport.com/drivers/ Stevens Transport 9757 Military Parkway, Dallas, TX 75227 http://www.stevenstransport.com/ http://www.becomeadriver.com/ Driver Recruiting: 1-800-333-8595.  Apply Here: https://intelliapp2.driverapponline.com Paragon Leasing Technician Careers: https://www.stevenstransport.com/careers/fleet-maintenance-jobs/

シリーズの最終回では、「自分にとっての発想とは？」をめぐるやりとりが中心となります。KJ法やクリエイティブの分類を起点に、二人それぞれがどんなふうに発想をしているのか、自覚的に振り返る時間に。 将棋やテニス、小説執筆、村上春樹のオーディオブック体験など、話題は多岐にわたりながらも、自然と“発想”や“創造”についての考察が深まっていきます。それぞれの「発想の型」が違うことに気づいたり、 情報を整理してから考える人と、言葉にすることで考えがかたちづくられていく人の違いを語り合ったりと、 一冊の本をきっかけに、自分の思考の癖や手触りを確かめる回となりました。

KJ checks in on the Patriots. Also hear from Tom Carroll on what he has seen at Patriots training camp.

KJ gives his take on the Red Sox trade deadline.

In this episode of Gun Talk Hunt, KJ sits down with Gary Killingsworth—Gun Talk's own draw-tag lottery champ—who managed to land not one, not two, but THREE highly sought-after hunting tags in a single year.From Oregon's coveted Mount Emily elk unit to Central Oregon blacktail deer and Willamette Valley hunts, Gary shares how he built his strategy, what gear he's relying on, and tips for maximizing your draw odds. Whether you're chasing over-the-counter opportunities or managing your preference points portfolio, this is a must-watch for hunters serious about next season's draw.This Gun Talk Hunt is brought to you by Savage Arms, Remington Ammunition, SnapSafe, Timney Triggers, and First Person Defender.Be sure to check out the Gun Talk / Ammunition Depot Collab page for great deals:ammunitiondepot.com/guntalkGet 5% off any order at Optics Planet with code GUNTALK.Check out the NEW First Person Defender YouTube channel HERE.About Gun Talk HuntGun Talk Media's Gun Talk Hunt, with Kevin “KJ” Jarnagin, pairs decades of experience with today's latest tools and technology to help you succeed in the field. Whether it runs or flies - no matter what game you pursue - Gun Talk Hunt is a multi-platform podcast that gives today's hunters a voice in the digital world.For more content, subscribe to Gun Talk at guntalktv.com, on Gun Talk's Roku, Apple TV, iOS app, Android app, or find Gun Talk on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, X and guntalk.com. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLCGun Talk Hunt 08.02.25Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.

THIS WEEK's BIRDS: Cheikh Tidiane Fall w/ Bobby Few et al.; bop from Johnny Griffin;  post-bop from Charles Davis; Szilárd Mezei w/ Quartet; new compositions from Jason Kao Huang and large ensemble; Ethiopian pop, new & vintage, from Tilahun Gessesse, Afework Nigussie, Abyssinia Band;  trombonist Craig Harris & Nation of Imagination (Turkish/expeirmental vocal jazz); new music from Ivo Perelman w. Matthew Shipp (duo) & Ivo Perelman w. Quartet; orchestral composition from Muhal Richard Abrams; ghazals from Tahira Syed & Ghulam Ali; Tian Niu  (disco from South-East Asia); Peter Bruun, Søren Kjærgaard & Jonas Westergaardand; Greek vocal from Gerolykoi & Stella Haskill; and, of course, ever, lots of mumbling and so much, much more. Catch the BIRDS live on Friday nights, 9:00pm-MIDNIGHT (EST), in Central New York on WRFI, 88.1 FM Ithaca/ 88.5 FM Odessa;. and WORLDWIDE online via our MUSIC PLAYER at WRFI.ORG. 24/7 via PODBEAN: https://conferenceofthebirds.podbean.com via iTUNES: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/conference-of-the-birds-podcast/id478688580 Also available at podomatic, Internet Archive, podtail, iheart Radio, and elsewhere. Always FREE of charge to listen to the radio program and free also to stream, download, and subscribe to the podcast online: PLAYLIST at SPINITRON: https://spinitron.com/WRFI/pl/20922833/Conference-of-the-Birds and via the Conference of the Birds page at www.WRFI.ORG https://www.wrfi.org/wrfiprograms/conferenceofthebirds/  Join us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/conferenceofthebirds/?ref=bookmarks Find WRFI on Radio Garden: http://radio.garden/visit/ithaca-ny/aqh8OGBR

Brian Gilman is the Chief Marketing Officer of ThetaRay, a fintech company that provides AI-powered solutions to detect and prevent financial crimes like money laundering, fraud, and terrorist financing. In this episode, KJ and Brian Gilman explore how AI is transforming the fight against financial crime in the banking industry. They discuss the limitations of legacy rules-based systems, the power of AI-driven pattern recognition, and the future of compliance and risk management. Key Takeaways: 03:00 – The State of Financial Crime 20–30% of global financial transactions may be linked to crime. $4B+ in fines for money laundering in 2023 alone. 07:00 – How AI Changes the Game AI identifies hidden patterns and criminal networks. Reduces false positives, enabling secure growth in high-risk markets. 10:00 – Marketing Disruptive Tech Messaging to C-suite: focus on pain points and compliance needs. The shift from traditional marketing funnels to meeting-based metrics. Quote of the Show (19:00): "AI has been one of the greatest enablers, but it has also been one of the greatest levelers of technology that I've ever seen. “ – Brian Gilman Join our Anti-PR newsletter where we’re keeping a watchful and clever eye on PR trends, PR fails, and interesting news in tech so you don't have to. You're welcome. Want PR that actually matters? Get 30 minutes of expert advice in a fast-paced, zero-nonsense session from Karla Jo Helms, a veteran Crisis PR and Anti-PR Strategist who knows how to tell your story in the best possible light and get the exposure you need to disrupt your industry. Click here to book your call: https://info.jotopr.com/free-anti-pr-eval Ways to connect with Brian Gilman: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bgilman1/ Company Website: thetaray.com How to get more Disruption/Interruption: Amazon Music - https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/eccda84d-4d5b-4c52-ba54-7fd8af3cbe87/disruption-interruption Apple Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disruption-interruption/id1581985755 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/6yGSwcSp8J354awJkCmJlDSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this chilling episode of Unspeakable, KJ probes the disappearance of 19-year-old Sade Robinson after a date with Maxwell Anderson. The discovery of a dismembered leg heightens the urgency to find the killer.Follow “Crime Wire Weekly” on it's new channel HERE:Apple Podcasts   https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-crime-wire-weekly/id1815864889

Training Camp is under way and in today's episode of the podcast Alex and KJ dive into the juicy topic of camp so far: new CB Nate Hobbs. Hobbs has brought an intensity to practice that some are saying is too intense. Is this good for the locker-room or are things starting to break down in Green Bay? Let's dive in - Welcome back to the IKE Packers Podcast!Help the show by telling another Packers fan! Other ways to contribute are by leaving a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts and subscribing wherever you get your podcasts.@IKE_Packers on X

In this episode KJ reviews a series of encounters with a cryptid known as Amomongo or the Bigfoot of the Phillipines. Bill covers a Bigfoot sighting from Oregon near Black Canyon and Wolf Mountain. And finally we will cover some great listener mail. Please join us! Thank you for listening! www.bigfootterrorinthewoods.com Produced by: "Bigfoot Terror in the Woods L.L.C."

KJ reacts to the Sox win last night but he can't help but feel like something is missing. He goes through which Sox players he would save and which ones he would trade. he also tells a Hulk Hogan story.

KJ is joined by Tom Carroll to talk about the Pats training camp so far. Which position groups scare him the most and would you rather, most likely to, and Either/or

Get ready for a deep dive into the world of cartridges, competitions, and hunting strategy! In this episode of Gun Talk Hunt, KJ is joined by Seth Swerczek of Hornady and the Hornady Podcast. They break down how to choose the right cartridge for NRL Hunter matches and the upcoming hunting season.KJ shares how competing in NRL Hunter events has transformed his real-world hunting approach, while Seth offers exclusive insight into how Hornady's bullet construction has evolved over time — from old-school to modern-day precision.Check out the Hornady Podcast here: https://www.hornady.com/podcastThis Gun Talk Hunt is brought to you by SnapSafe, First Person Defender, Timney Triggers, and Remington Ammunition.Check out the NEW First Person Defender YouTube channel HERE.About Gun Talk HuntGun Talk Media's Gun Talk Hunt, with Kevin “KJ” Jarnagin, pairs decades of experience with today's latest tools and technology to help you succeed in the field. Whether it runs or flies - no matter what game you pursue - Gun Talk Hunt is a multi-platform podcast that gives today's hunters a voice in the digital world.For more content, subscribe to Gun Talk at guntalktv.com, on Gun Talk's Roku, Apple TV, iOS app, Android app, or find Gun Talk on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, X and guntalk.com. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLCGun Talk Hunt 07.26.25Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.

Jess, Sarina, Jennie and Jess are all here to talk about taking a break from various angles: the mechanics angle, the guilt angle, the fear angle, the identity angle and inspiration angle. Mechanics. * Leave yourself notes about the project when you leave off, for example, “The next thing that needs to happen is this…” so when you come back, you know how to get back into the project. This is Sarina's daily practice, but it really helps when she has to leave a project behind. This can be especially helpful when you have to go away for an unexpected emergency. * Jennie adds that the only way you can do this is if you have a place to keep and find those notes to yourself. In one of your 47 notebooks or in the document itself? Or, as Jess adds, on the side of the cardboard box you use for trash in your basement workshop that you almost recycle by accident. * Jennie also notes that you have to have intentionality, to know what you are writing so you can know what comes next, whether that's in your outline, inside outline, or whatever. * Jennie has a little notebook she brings on vacation with her and she downloads those ideas into that just before going to sleep at night when she's away. * These vacation inspiration moments are much like shower thoughts, part of the magic of our brain unhooking, getting into deep default mode network, and becoming its most creative. * Sarina mentioned an article about how walking makes you more creative, also a study in why tapping into the default mode network is so effective as a practice. Fear * The only way to get over this is to sit down and do it. Open the document. Just start. * Jennie points out that getting back into a manuscript when it's disappeared feels horrifying but it's much easier than it sounds and has happened to one of our frequent guests, Sarah Stewart Taylor, when her then-toddler created a password for the document that was not recoverable. She had to give in to the fact that her book was gone, and recreate it out of her memory. Guilt and Identity* It only took Jess until her fiftieth year to figure out that her process - of walking, gardening, beekeeping, musing - is a part of writing, and that's cool. * Can you be a writer if you are not actively writing? Yes, if research, planning, thinking and otherwise cogitating is a part of your writing process. Get over it. The words have to land on the page eventually, of course, but if you are doing both, have grace for the not-actively-writing part of the writing process. #AmReadingTess Gerritsen's series set in Maine (The Spy Coast and The Summer Guests) and, once she finished those two books, Jess went back to The Surgeon, where it all started for Tess Gerritsen. Stay tuned for our interview with her! Andy Weir's Project Hail Mary (Don't watch the movie trailer if you plan to read the book!)Sarah Harman's All the Other Mothers Hate MeAmy Tintera's Listen for the LieRosemerry Wahtola Trommer The UnfoldingRichard Osman's The Thursday Murder Club (coming to Netflix in August!)Janelle Brown's What Kind of Paradise Want to submit a first page to Booklab? Fill out the form HERE.Writers and readers, KJ here, if you love #AmWriting and I know you do, and I know you do, and especially if you love the regular segment at the end of most episodes where we talk about what we've been reading, you will also love my weekly #AmReading email. Is it about what I've been reading and loving? It is. And if you like what I write, you'll like what I read. But it is also about everything else. I've been #AmDoing: sleeping, buying clothes and returning them, launching a spelling bee habit, reading other people's weekly emails. Let's just say it's kind of the email about not getting the work done, which I mean that's important too, right? We can't work all the time. It's also free, and I think you'll really like it. So you can find it at kjdellantonia.com or kjda.substack.com or by clicking on my name on Substack, if you do that kind of thing.Come hang out with me. You won't be sorry.Transcript below!EPISODE 458 - TRANSCRIPTKJ Dell'AntoniaWriters and readers, KJ here. If you love Hashtag AmWriting, and I know you do, and especially if you love the regular segment at the end of most episodes where we talk about what we've been reading, you will also love my weekly Hashtag AmReading email. Is it about what I've been reading and loving? It is. And if you like what I write, you'll like what I read. But it is also about everything else. I've been ‘hashtag am-doing', sleeping, buying clothes and returning them, launching a spelling bee habit, reading other people's weekly emails. Let's just say it's kind of the email about not getting the work done—which, I mean, that's important too, right? We can't work all the time. It's also free, and I think you'll really like it. So you can find it at KJdellantonia.com or kjda.substack.com or by clicking on my name on Substack, if you do that kind of thing or of course in the show notes for this podcast. Come hang out with me. You won't be sorry.Multiple SpeakersIs it recording? Now it's recording. Yay! Go ahead. This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone. Try to remember what I'm supposed to be doing. All right, let's start over. Awkward pause. I'm going to rustle some papers. Okay. Now, one, two, three.KJ Dell'AntoniaHey, I'm KJ Dell'Antonia, and this is the Hashtag AmWriting Podcast, the weekly podcast, while writing all the things—short things, long things, pitches, proposals, fiction, nonfiction. And somebody told me they thought this was a recorded intro. And I just want you to know I do this live every time, which is why there's this, come on, there's more variety here, people, and you should know that. Anyway, here we are, all four of us, for we got a topic today. But before we do that, we should introduce ourselves in order of seniority, please.Jess LaheyI'm Jess Lahey. I am the author of The Gift of Failure and The Addiction Inoculation. And I laugh, because when you said seniority, all I could do was think of us in our little eave space in my old house, down the street from you, not knowing what the heck we were doing. But yeah, we've been doing this for a long time now. You can find my... you can find my journalism at The New York Times, at The Washington Post, at The Atlantic, and everything else at Jessicalahey.com.Sarina BowenI'm Sarina Bowen. I'm the author of many novels. My new one this fall is called Thrown for a Loop, and it will be everywhere that books are sold, which is very exciting to me, and all about me at Sarinabowen.com.Jennie NashI am the newest of the co-hosts, and so happy to be among this group of incredibly smart and prolific and awesome women, and I'm the founder and CEO of Author Accelerator, which is a company on a mission to lead the emerging book coaching industry. And you can find us at bookcoaches.com or authoraccelerator.com.KJ Dell'AntoniaI'm KJ Dell'Antonia. I'm the author of three novels, the latest of which is Playing the Witch Card, and the most televised of which is The Chicken Sisters—Season Two coming soon to a Hallmark network near you. And I'm also the former editor and lead writer of The Motherlode, making me our... well, and Jennie too, like the crossover. I've done too many different kinds of writing—probably should have stayed in my lane. Oh well. And our plan today—as we're recording, it is summer. And a pretty frequent thing that happens in the summer is that you need to put your project down for a little while, because you have house guests, because you're going on the kind of vacation that does not involve working, because you just need a break or you're sick. That's not really a summer thing, but it definitely happens. Anyway, we wanted to talk about how, you know, what—what do you do to make that work better?Jess LaheyI think a lot about being a parent and needing to take a break too. And you know, this is something I talk a lot about with, you know, other writers who are sort of struggling, especially since I read a lot about parenting—who are struggling to—with that guilt of, you know, like, I feel like I owe my time to the words, and I feel like I owe my time to the children. And finding a way to take a break from the words and not feel guilty about not being with the words can be really, really hard, especially when you're going gung-ho on something. So I want to make sure that we figure out a way to have a break without guilt. That's like the big question I get a lot—is, how do you, you know, either from the parenting or the writing side?KJ Dell'AntoniaAnd I was thinking about it more from a mechanics side.Jess LaheyYeah.KJ Dell'AntoniaHow do you put this thing aside for a week or two weeks or even a month? And know where you were?Jess LaheyRight.KJ Dell'AntoniaAnd come back and feel like it does not take you forever to dig in.Sarina BowenYeah. Um, so we've got the guilt question. We've got the mechanics of how to do it. And I would just like to add a layer, which is the fear factor.Jess LaheyYeah.Sarina BowenI have this thing where, when I walk away from a manuscript, I become afraid of it. So it seems scarier when I take a break. Like, even if it's not true—that I don't know where I am or that I become unmoored from the channel of that book and it seems intimidating to go back to.Jess LaheyCan I add one more layer as well? And that's the identity factor. You know, if I identify as a writer, what am I if I'm not actively writing something? And that messes my head up a lot. So I would love to add that added layer in as well and make sure we discuss that.Jennie NashWell, and I have something totally different from all of those, which is that I often find when I go on vacation, I am more inspired and motivated to work on my project than I was in my real life. It tends to light a fire under me. So then I'm faced with that choice of, you know, wanting to really lean into it. And, you know, just like a really small piece of that story is, I love to write on airplanes. I just love it. Give me a very long flight, and it's—I just want to work and not talk to anybody. And, you know, it's awesome. So I feel some guilt around that. When I'm with my family, it's like, don't talk to me, don't watch movies. You know, I'm—I'm enjoying my plane time, doing my work. So I have that reality.KJ Dell'AntoniaWell, that's the choice that you have to start with, is, am I just, you know, can I not? Am I—do I need to accept the reality, which is that this is a beach trip with extended family and some, you know, my—to multiple generations, and I inevitably am going to be the person who is cooking and figuring out where the garbage has to go in the Airbnb? I should, you know, I—I will feel better if I just accept the reality that I'm not going to wake and work. Or, you know, is it a—is it a trip where you can schedule some work time and want to? Or is it a trip where you affirmatively want to give yourself a break? Or is it also, I mean, I sort of think that the last possibility—well, there are probably multiples—is I just want to touch this every day. So I feel like you can kind of—you're like, you're either like, just—no, not going to happen, not going to pretend it's going to happen, not going to feel the guilt. That's the—that's where we are. And there's sort of a, I just want to open the file every day and keep it warm and friendly. And on, you know these three—three days I have an hour.Jess LaheySo let's do this. Let's—let's do mechanics first, since that's the real nuts-and-bolts stuff, and then we'll talk about all the touchy-feely stuff after that. So let's do mechanics first. It sounds like you have thoughts, KJ…?KJ Dell'AntoniaWell, I was actually thinking that Sarina did this pretty recently.Jess LaheyYeah, that's true.Sarina BowenYeah. Like, you know, I, um, I have found mechanically that leaving yourself notes every time you walk away from your manuscript is a good thing. So this is sort of like a best practices in your life idea, where I will have a writing day, and it's done now, and I'm going to get up and go do other things in my life. If I pick up my notebook, and I write down where I am—like, okay, and the next thing that has to happen is this—like, it could be really short or not. But taking better notes about the structure of the thing I'm working on is serving me on so many levels that it just slots right in here. Like, I took a big trip in April, and I thought I might work, but then I didn't, and I really seamlessly came right back in, because I knew where I was, and I avoided a lot of my own fear. So, if the practices that help you become a good day-to-day writer also can be practices that help you in this very instance, the mechanics of picking up your book again are that you left yourself a note right in your document, um, or in your notebook, that says, and here's what I think is supposed to happen next. And, yeah.KJ Dell'AntoniaThat's going to be gold for an unexpected break too, because that happens, you know, right? You get one of those phone calls, and it's a week before you're back or more.Sarina BowenYeah.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah. I love this practice. This is one of those things I forget to do.Jennie NashI feel like I—I feel like I have to add to that a couple things. That the only reason you can do that is, A, if you have a place to take notes, which—which could be your, the document itself that you're working on. But Sarina talked about a notebook, right? You have a place that you know, that you can find that, which is not an insignificant thing to have, or...Sarina BowenCorrect!Jennie NashRight?! Or, in the case of me, it's like, I have 47 notebooks. Well, which one did I put the note in?Sarina BowenRight.Jennie NashBut then the second thing is, I mean, this is something that I find so inspiring about the way you work, Sarina, and it—and it's a thing that I teach—is you have to know what you're writing, you know, in order to know where you are, what the structure is, and what you're doing, and to ask those—like, you have to have done the thought work of what, what it is you're trying to do and what your intention is. Otherwise, you sort of don't ever know where you are or where you're going. So...Sarina BowenRight, but that's on two levels. Like, you could—let's just say you have successfully written yourself an Inside Outline, you know, the way that you do it—you still might need that granular thing.Jennie NashOh yeah!Sarina BowenLike, you might know where you are in the arc of the book, but you might actually need the note that's like, "And now we're going to wash the dishes." I mean, let's please not put that in the novel, but you know what I mean.Jennie NashYeah, yeah. But that intentionality of, on the big picture, what am I doing, and on the small picture—in this chapter, in this scene, in this moment, and with this character—what was I... how'd that fit into the whole? What was I thinking? And those things are not—they're not easy. Like, we're talking about them like, "Oh, you just..." You know, like I was saying, what if you have 47 notebooks? That literally is a problem I have. It's like, I know I wrote this note down, and I don't know where I put it—digitally or analog.Sarina BowenRight. I confess I actually do still have this problem. Like, even with all of my best practices, like, put into—sometimes it's like, well, is that in the document, or is it in my notebook? And then—or I thought about it at four in the morning and actually didn't write it down anywhere. And I'm looking anyway...Jennie NashOh, I do that too. I absolutely do that too. I'm convinced that I left a note while I was driving—that's a thing I often do. I'll leave—I'll have Siri write me a note, and then somehow it doesn't appear, or it's like, I know I did this, I know I asked her to do this... you know.Jess LaheyI actually have—I was doing the recycling, and I realized that I was in big trouble because three sides of a box I'd had down in the basement with me while I was working on a project—I was doing something with my, getting some beehives ready—and I was listening to an audiobook that is research for a project I'm working on, and I had scribbled some really important notes to myself about how I was supposed to start a chapter on. And it was a great start. It was like a whole paragraph on the three sides of the box, with an old Sharpie I found down in the basement. And then I realized I almost recycled, like, some really useful outline stuff.Multiple Speakers[all laughing]Jess LaheySo normally—no, so I actually have them. While you guys are talking about something else, since we do see each other while we're recording this, I'll show you later. But the thing that I normally do is either in the document, like right where I left off, or in my main notebook, because I am so bad at finding those notes that I have strewn all over my office or on the side of a cardboard box.KJ Dell'AntoniaI have had the problem lately of I'm not in a manuscript, and that it's much easier when you're in a manuscript to come back to a manuscript, but I'm in a notebook full of assorted random Blueprint challenge, you know, like trying to—I'm, I'm in figuring out where this is going mode, which means I do a lot of thinking while I'm not working that then hopefully I go and write down. But it also means that I frequently sit down and I'm like, well, am I going to think about who these people are? Am I going to think about what the plot is? What am I going to do? So I've been trying to leave myself like a task, something that will, that will just get me, get me back in, because sometimes that's the problem. I, you know, I open the notebook, and there's no obvious thing to do, and the next thing I know, I'm buying running shoes.Jennie NashWell, since we're talking about nuts and bolts, when I said that I often get inspired when I go away or go on vacation and I want to work, I'm not talking about I'm going to go sit in a library or coffee shop for three hours. What, what I mean by that is I often have ideas that I want to capture, and so I have a little notebook that I bring on vacation, and what I like to do is go to bed early enough that I can download all the things I thought that day. I need that space and time to—if it's, if I'm working on something, it's in my head. It's not going to not be in my head. And so the one sort of new mechanical thing that I, that I do, is have that "vacation notes notebook" with me.KJ Dell'AntoniaI always carry one, and I never use it. So there's that.Jess LaheyI get—I am at my most inspired to write when I specifically can't write, which is usually behind the wheel of my car. So I use, in my car, I have been known to, you know, either scribble on things—which, totally don't do that—or to record myself on my phone. But then, audio things, I'm particularly bad at going back and listening to; that seems like it's just too much work. So those tend to get lost a lot. I need to come up with a better system for that. But it is predictable that if I am in a place where I cannot physically write, I will be at my most inspired to write.Jennie NashJess, that's kind of what I'm talking about. That's what happens to me, is I might say I'm leaving all work behind. I'm going off the grid. I'm not doing the thing. And that's when I most want to do the thing. And I, like, my brain seems to really get inspired. What? What do you think that's about? Is that...Jess LaheyI, you know, I, I was very worried that it was my sort of, um—sorry, what's the word I'm looking for? It was—it's my, my brain's way of saying, "Oh, you couldn't possibly work now, so let's have some of the best ideas so that you seem like a good little doobie writer, but it's physically impossible for you to write now." It's just a really weird thing, and maybe one of the other things I thought about is that I'm often listening to a book that I'm really into, which also inspires me to write. I've been listening to a lot of really great books lately, and you can't listen to a book—even one that inspires you deeply—and actually write at the same time, which is another quandary.Sarina BowenYou know what, though? This is not uniquely your brain messing with you—like, this is shower thoughts.Multiple Speakers[Overlapping: “Mm-hmm.” “Sorry.” “Ohhh...”]Sarina BowenBut everybody—everybody has those great ideas in the shower, and it's because you have unhooked yourself. You are just in there with the shampoo and the conditioner and that razor that you probably should change the blade with, and like, you know, there is nowhere to write and nothing to do. So your brain is like, I am free right now to unclench and actually solve this problem of chapter 17, and that's what—that's what happens.Jess LaheyIt is my duty, whenever we mention this, to bring up that—years ago, Ron Lieber, the write... uh... the "Your Money" columnist at The New York Times, told me that he has a waterproof little whiteboard situation that's— that lives in the shower. He and his wife, Jodi Kantor—amazing writer as well, Pulitzer Prize–winning writer, even— that these would be people who might just need a waterproof whiteboard in the shower with them.Sarina BowenBut would that ruin the magic…?KJ Dell'AntoniaIt might just...Multiple Speakers[all laughing]Jess LaheyIf you had a place to write it down, your brain would—like—be... your brain would say, "Sorry, I'm not coming up with good ideas."Sarina BowenBecause I don't think I am willing to take this risk. I take a lot of risks in my life, but this one—like; we do not mess with the shower thoughts. I think, I think...KJ Dell'AntoniaSo, so what do we do if you didn't do any of this? If what—you know—what are—you're listening to this podcast, coming back from your trip, and you're like, I... was writing... something...Sarina BowenYou know what, though? I almost feel that we should point out the fact that, like, that is kind of unlikely. Like, somebody should feel welcome to take this trip and to have all those thoughts, and even if you didn't write them down on your whiteboard in the shower or on your handy notebook, like, I would argue that unhitching yourself in the first place possibly leads to a lot of creative development that, even if you don't capture it in the moment, is still with you. Like, I had this fantastic trip in April. I thought I was going to work, and then I did not, and it was, like, the best two weeks of my life. So then, the other day, my husband said, “Hey, there's a new article you need to read in The Athletic,” which is a New York Times sports blog, and I have just pulled it up so that we can recommend it, about how walking makes you a better problem solver. And the framing story of this article is about a retired baseball coach, but, um, but then, when they got around to studying it, um, they said this question planted the seed for the first set of studies to measure if walking produces more creativity. In the series of experiments, Oppezzo and Schwartz [Marily Oppezzo & Daniel L. Schwartz] asked 176 college students to complete different creative thinking tasks while sitting, walking on a treadmill, walking outside through campus, or being pushed in a wheelchair. In one example, the students had to come up with atypical uses for random objects, and anyway, on average, the students' creative output increased by 60% when they were walking.Jennie NashThat's so cool!Sarina BowenAnd the article is—it's so cool—it's called An MLB manager found value in long walks. Research suggests it's a ‘brain-changing power'.Jess LaheyI have put a spot for it in the show notes. And I should mention that this is all part of what we call the default mode network. This is the—the part of our brain that is the wandering, most creative part of our brain. And we can get there lots of ways. Walking is a fantastic way to do it.KJ Dell'AntoniaSarina, if you do have the fear of the manuscript when you're coming back to it, like, take—you know, travel back in time to maybe when you were a little less confident in your abilities. What do you do to get past the fear and sit down?Sarina BowenThere is only one solution, and that is sitting down. And I'm not so great at this—like, when, when the fear creeps up on me, in spite of my best intentions, man, I will do anything to avoid that sucker. And then when I finally do, and I wade back in, almost every time my response is, Oh, this isn't so bad. I know where—I kind of remember now. It's going to be fine, you know. But it's so easy to put off work out of fear. It's—it's the—it's the one big obstacle. Like, I don't put work off for other reasons, you know, because I'm tired or whatever. It's because I'm afraid that there's something fundamentally wrong with the project, or fundamentally wrong with me, and that is almost always what's keeping me from doing good work.Jennie NashThere was, back in the day before computers became what they are now, people would frequently lose manuscript drafts. It was just much harder to save your work. And I can't—I can't explain exactly what changed, but it was. People frequently lost huge chunks of their work if they didn't actively back up. And when I was a new coach and working with writers who would lose their manuscripts, they would be—understandably—beyond devastated. And this often was full manuscripts, just unrecoverable, full manuscripts. And it was true that if they sat down to recreate what they'd written, it would really flow from them, for that same reason—it was still in their brain. They—they had—they'd written it, so there was a sense that they had, they owned it, and they could sit down, and it was kind of quite remarkable. And I would confidently say to them, just sit down, start writing. I think it will come to you, and it always did. It's very interesting.Jess LaheyThere's an example—we've interviewed Sarah Stewart Taylor many times now, and she tells the story of, a long time ago, her youngest managed to crawl across the computer in such a way as to create a password for the document itself, and there's nothing that can be done. She was on the phone with Word—with Microsoft—for a long time, and they're like, look, this is a password you created. We can't—that's not recoverable. So she had to go and recreate—I believe she was about a third of the way into a book—but she said that it actually flowed really well, and that, you know, she'd had it, it had been cooking and stuff like that. So that massive fear of, oh my gosh, how am I going to get back into this project when it has just disappeared? It turned out to be not a thing—that it actually came really easily to her.Jennie NashJess, you're bringing all the very weird stories today, and I'm so here for it—notes on boxes, babies making passwords.Jess LaheyYeah, well, and the hard part—the funny part about that—is like, you cannot recreate a toddler, essentially, like bashing away at your keyboard and creating a password that's never coming back. Sorry.Sarina BowenThere is a writer—she once gave a talk that I heard—a very successful young adult author, Cynthia Leitich Smith, and she apparently wrote a discovery draft of the novel to, like, figure out what it was about and then deleted it and started over on purpose.Jennie NashOn purpose?!Sarina BowenYes, and everyone in the room gasped because, of course, you know that I just rather, like, been in a lot of pain. I'd rather have oral surgery than delete my first draft of a novel. But, um... but yeah, if she was unafraid to get back there after that kind of break, then I think we can all handle it.KJ Dell'AntoniaThis is true. I've never deleted a draft, but I have just gone—poofft—"Let's, let's, let's start again." In fact, almost every time. Kind of sad. I'm doing it now, actually, but it's not a full draft. Anyway. So take the breaks, right? That's what we're saying here.Sarina BowenYeah, take the break.KJ Dell'AntoniaYou can break however you do it, you know, whichever thing you pick, and if you don't do what you thought you were going to do, that's cool, too. It's going to—it's going to be fine.Jess LaheyCan I mention something that has—so that now that we've sort of done mechanics, we've done a little bit about the fear thing, the—the identity thing—has been really hard for me, in that I have these two books that I've written, and I've written a bunch and researched a bunch of things over the past couple of years, and people keep asking me, what are you writing? What are you writing? And the reality is, like, I'm not. I'm working on something, I'm researching something, and I've written a lot of things. In fact, now I'm holding up my cardboard box pieces—I found them. But the day—I'm not, like, meeting a 1200-words-a-day goal. And sometimes I feel really... I feel like a fraud. I feel like a massive fraud. Like, what kind of writer is not actually sitting down and writing 2,000 words a day? And that's incredibly difficult for me. Like, I don't deserve to call myself a writer, even though I have a couple of books out there and I wrote—you know—did all this other stuff. But the thing that I have—there are a couple of things that have really helped—and one of those is to understand that and have some grace for myself around what I happen to know full well what my process is. Yes, I wrote a couple of book proposals that didn't turn into books, but it was only through writing the book proposals that I discovered that those books weren't something that I wanted to write, and only through doing all of this research on audiobooks and writing on the side of cardboard boxes. That's the way I've written every one of my books. And it's not—it's just what works for me. And so having a little bit of this, you know, this feeling of insecurity as a writer, I don't think is—I don't think is unique to me. I think a lot of writers feel this, and it's...KJ Dell'AntoniaNo, all the rest of them are...Jess LaheyAll of them are really...KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, no, everyone else is just like, well, of course. No, I'm not an imposter.Jess LaheyBut what's great is when I sit down with other writers and I say, what is an integral part of your process that isn't actually about putting the words on the page? That's not some bogus, like, excuse for not writing. You know, the gardening is part of it, the—the research is part of it, the listening to audiobooks is part of it. The writing—or the walking—is part of it. And it's not just a part of it. It is an incredibly important part of it for me, and—and understanding that and owning that about myself has been really a good thing for allowing myself to not—I'm not productive when I just feel guilty or like an imposter every day. It—that's not good for my process. But none of you ever feel that, right?KJ Dell'AntoniaOr apparently the people around you…Jess LaheyThe other thing that has been—well, the other thing that's been really, really helpful is the—and especially from the parenting perspective—is, or the marriage perspective, or the dog perspective, or the bees perspective, is I need to be fully committed to the thing right in front of me when I'm doing that thing. And if I'm feeling guilty about not being with the words when I'm with my children, or not being with my children when I'm with the words, that is awful, too. And so I have found that when I have to let go of all the other stuff and be fully, 100% in, I'm highly distractible. And so if I'm not fully in the thing, and that—all that guilt of not being over there doing that other thing—that's just taking away from the actual process of writing or researching or whatever it is, or taking care of my bees. I have to be fully in the thing I'm in and not feel guilty about not doing something else. And that's been a growth moment for me, too. It only took me—how old am I? I'm 55 now, and I got there somewhere around 50, I think.Jennie NashThere is also—I mean, I—I love what you're saying, and that is a thing to strive for, for sure—to be, to be present in whatever you're doing. But there is also this idea—I always think of it as mental real estate—that you leave for your project, for your idea, for your writing, for your book. That you, that you have a space in your brain devoted to that, and that you visit, whether or not you're producing words. And I think that that, too, is writing. I think, in some ways, that's more writing than sitting at the keyboard. I mean, I always object to the process of just putting words down. And a lot of the things that challenge writers to do that, because they skip that part—the thinking part and the having-the-part—you know, the real estate-in-your-brain part. And I think this connects to the shower—shower thoughts, right? You're gardening or beekeeping, you're walking, you're thinking, you're writing proposals and throwing them out. You're doing all that, that, that's writing. That's the—that's writing in my mind.KJ Dell'AntoniaAnd it's not... I mean the other thing we do say a lot is, you know, "Good writing comes last."Jennie NashYeah.KJ Dell'AntoniaYou've got to do the other stuff. So you can do it on vacation, or you could not do it on vacation. This—I don't think—we just—maybe I—this was my idea, and I think maybe I just needed the reassurance. I have a couple weeks coming up where I'm probably not going to do anything, and I just needed a reminder that that's cool. That's cool. It's all right. It's going to be okay. That's what I—if y'all could just pat me on the head and say "it's going to be okay."Multiple Speakers[Overlapping voices: “Mm-hmm,” “Sorry,” “Ohhh...”]KJ Dell'AntoniaSix or ten times an hour, that might be about what I need.Jess LaheyWell and one of the other things that has been really cool this summer is I've been on a streak of really good books. And every one of those really good books that I've been reading has made me like, Oh, I could do this. Oh my gosh, I could do that. I could write like her. I could I could write this other thing. And it's, it's all that energy is good and it's all a good thing to sit on a beach and read a book, or sit in the woods and read a book. It's all great.KJ Dell'AntoniaAll right, everybody, go collect some energy. Hey, on that note, who's read something good lately?Jennie NashI want to hear all these great books, Jess.Jess LaheySo I really have been on this roll. I've already talked about Atmosphere in an earlier podcast, the Taylor Jenkins Reid thing. But then I've been on this Tess Gerritsen jag, because we're—I'm interviewing Tess Gerritsen later this week. You guys will get to hear her later this summer. I am... Sarina and KJ, I believe, read the first of her new series that she has set in Maine and with a couple of retired CIA agents and spies in Maine. And then I enjoyed those so much that I went all the way back to the beginning—to her first book, The Surgeon, which I didn't even know was turned into this whole series called Rizzoli and Isles. It's a television show—I had no idea. And now I'm deep into Tess Gerritsen land. I'm still—I found out that there's going to be a movie of the book by the guy who wrote The Martian, Andy...Sarina BowenAndy WeirJess LaheyAndy Weir, thank you. And I was warned very specifically on social media not to watch the preview—the trailer—for the new movie that is going to be coming out with Ryan Gosling later on this summer, because it ruins the book. The book is called Hail Mary… Project Hail Mary. So I very quickly turned away from social media and said, Ooh, I better read the book really quickly before anyone ruins it for me, and I am enjoying the heck out of Project Hail Mary. So it's been really fun. Yeah.Sarina BowenI am reading a book that KJ put into my hands. And the fun part is that I don't remember why she put it into my hands, you know. Like, why did I pick up this book? Like, it happens all the time. It's called All the Other Mothers Hate Me by Sarah Harman.Jennie NashWhat a great title.Sarina BowenYeah, like, I picked up this book, and my husband said, oh my God, what a great title. And so, yes, that's super cool. And it's very voice-y. And the—the flap copy has the—a premise that smacks of a thriller, but the voice isn't like all deep, dark thriller. And so I think maybe the contrast of those two things might be why KJ put it into my hands. But I am enjoying the fabulous writing, and I'm—I'm still at the beginning, but the way she introduces characters is really sharp. So even that alone is like a little master class on introducing characters.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, that was why I gave it to you, was that we'd been talking about, you know, the voice, and also because we'd been talking about, like, funny thrillers versus thriller-y thrillers. And this isn't funny, but it's super voice-y. It reminds me of the one you pressed into my hands, which maybe is a little funnier—Listen for the Lie.Sarina BowenYeah, yeah.Jennie NashWell, I'm reading something very different, which is not—not very beachy. I go to a yoga class that is taught by a middle grade English teacher, and she runs her yoga class sort of like English class, where she always starts with a poem and throughout the class, she refers back to the poem in a very embodied way that you're doing the yoga around. And then she reads the poem again at the end. It's—its spectacular. She's—she's so popular at our yoga studio that you have to, you know, fight your way in. But she read a poem by a woman named Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer—and that's Rosemerry like Christmas Merry, so: Rosemerry. And the book is called The Unfolding. And I say it's very different from what you are all mentioning because this woman experienced the death of her young son and father in very close proximity, and her poems are ostensibly about grief, but they're just filled with joy and hope and delight. And, you know, it's kind of that thing you're talking about, Sarina—that it's—here's a book about tragedy and grief, but it's—there's something about the voice that just is—is fresh. And they're just—they're just stunning, just absolutely stunning. And I have gone and ordered all her books, of which there are—are many. So she's a new voice to me, and I just—I can't get enough of them. They're incredible.KJ Dell'AntoniaWell, here I am going to go back to the fiction summary read-y thing. I am very late to The Thursday Murder Club party, but it is joy. It is so much fun—really your sort of classic Agatha Christie stuff, but way, way funnier and more entertaining, with a dash of elderly spies. So we're on that theme. And then I also want to mention, just because I liked it so much—and I'm not sure I want everyone to read it—What Kind of Paradise by Janelle Brown. This could be your lit fic read of the summer. It's somewhere—but—but it's still a page turner. And I thought the premise was extremely great. Basically, it's: what if the Unabomber had also raised a young daughter with him in the woods on all of his theories, back when the Unabomber was living in the woods, and inadvertently involved her in his first kill before she got away? And now she's an adult looking back at what happened. And Janelle Brown is a Silicon Valley person. She's really steeped in this culture. She really knows this world. It's a really good book—plus super entertaining.Jennie NashI love it.KJ Dell'AntoniaThat's it!Jess LaheyI love it when we have a lot of good stuff, because there have been a couple weeks this year where we were like, I was just let down this time around. But yay, I'm loving this.KJ Dell'AntoniaAll right, I think that's it for us this week, kids. Remember, if you support the podcast, you get bonus content every week right now, because we are killing it. You might get Jess's Soup to Nuts series, where she is coaching a fellow writer on creating a nonfiction proposal that also will work with her speaking career. You can join me and Jennie on a weekly basis as we flail our way through the beginnings of writing a couple of books. And of course, on a monthly basis, we've got the Booklab, where we look at the First Pages of novels submitted by listeners. And if you'd like to submit to the Booklab, that'd be great. Jess will put the link in the show notes.Jess LaheyIndeed, Jess will. And until next week, everyone, keep your butt in the chair and your head in the game.The Hashtag AmWriting Podcast is produced by Andrew Perella. Our intro music, aptly titled Unemployed Monday, was written and played by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their time and their creative output, because everyone deserves to be paid for their work. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode KJ reviews the legend of Stick Indians. Bill covers an account from a highly experienced hunter that was so frightened by a feeling of dread in the Kootenay Forest that he ended up giving up hunting forever after this particular trip. And finally we will cover some great listener mail. Please join us!Thank you for listening!www.bigfootterrorinthewoods.comProduced by: "Bigfoot Terror in the Woods L.L.C."

Training Camp starts on Wednesday for the Packers and it is always a great time of year in Green Bay, Wisconsin. In today's episode of the podcast, Alex and KJ take what they are hearing heading into the gate and dissect if the mainstream media has any good points. Is this the big year for LaFleur, Love, and Quay Walker? Or are the Packers heading into camp worse off than last year. Answering the difficult questions in the last episode of the offseason. You made it - Welcome back to the IKE Packers Podcast!Help the show by telling another Packers fan! Other ways to contribute are by leaving a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts and subscribing wherever you get your podcasts.@IKE_Packers on X

Dave and KJ talk ESPYs, The Open, Flag Football, and Dustin Poirier's final fight. Support Our Sponsors Green Chef- Make this summer your healthiest yet with Green Chef. Head to Greenchef dot com slash 50TOOMUCHDIP and use code 50TOOMUCHDIP to get fifty percent off your first month, then twenty percent off for two months with free shipping. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode KJ reviews a 2012 video of a swamp ape in the Florida Panhandle that was featured on the television show "The Proof is Out There". Bill covers a Bigfoot sighting from that SalmonBerry Canyon area of Oregon from a gentleman from a lumber trucking company. And finally we will cover some great listener mail. Please join us! Thank you for listening! www.bigfootterrorinthewoods.com Produced by: "Bigfoot Terror in the Woods L.L.C."

This week I sit down with my Sista - the one and only KJ Smith Black. We discuss the beauty and the battle behind the scenes of her biggest season yet. From filming while pregnant to healing through PCOS, KJ opens up about reclaiming her health, her voice, and her faith — on God's time. Whether you're navigating fertility, rediscovering your faith, or simply learning to block with grace and keep your sword ready, this one is for you. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and drop your favorite quote from the episode in the comments!

In this episode of Unspeakable, KJ brings you the FINAL episode in this series, where she takes a deep dive into the death of Boston police officer John O'Keefe and brings you into the investigation of his girlfriend Karen Read to finally answer the question…Did she do it?Follow “Crime Wire Weekly” on it's new channel HERE:Apple Podcasts  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-crime-wire-weekly/id1815864889Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/3zyrgjtW6gLUVbicJaYXV9?si=0dbf4983938344a2Amazon Music https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3738411d-828e-4138-9976-223ab5de2c87/the-crime-wire-weeklySOURCES  https://www.cartwrightfuneral.com/obituaries/John-J-III-JJ-OKeefe obId=29113887 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/236494717/john_j-o'keefe/photo  https://whdh.com/news/john-okeefe-was-a-veteran-officer-and-devoted-father-figure/ https://www.today.com/popculture/officer-who-appeared-police-reality-show-bostons-finest-dies-2d11638373https://www.patriotledger.com/story/news/2014/01/16/two-young-canton-kids-lose/40602672007 /https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/05/07/who-karen-read-trial-murder-case/83476129007/https://www.masslive.com/news/2025/04/these-are-the-20-people-you-need-to-know-to-follow-karen-reads-2nd-trial.html

Alex and KJ are back, this time to dive into the preseason Top 10 lists at each position group. Where does Jordan Love fall when it comes to quarterbacks? Who are some of the best players around the league? What can Green Bay do in the trenches and more - Welcome back to the IKE Packers Podcast!Help the show by telling another Packers fan! Other ways to contribute are by leaving a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts and subscribing wherever you get your podcasts.@IKE_Packers on X