Podcasts about kj ramsey

Brian Lee shares his personal story of experiencing spiritual abuse and what led him to start Broken to Beloved, an online summit and support resource for survivors. Register for the Broken to Beloved Summit January 23-26, 2024 HEREBrian Lee is a pastor, coach, and speaker. As a survivor of spiritual abuse and religious trauma, he has spent his time since leaving vocational ministry in 2021 working to provide recovery and resources for fellow victims and survivors. In 2023, he created and founded Broken to Beloved, a nonprofit organization that exists to help other victims and survivors through its Annual Summit and seasonal Cohorts, while also providing trauma awareness and safeguarding practices to pastors, leaders and churches.Based in Richmond, VA, Brian loves to go on outdoor adventures with his family, explore their neighborhood, community, and city, find good parks, enjoy good food, and have fun together. As a coffee snob and addict, he could always use another cup. Transcript (Transcript is unedited for typos or misspellings): Katherine: hey, Brian. Brian: Hey, Katherine. How's it going? Going? All right. How about you? Doing, Katherine: doing well, doing, doing okay for doing okay. Or a Tuesday. Brian: It's just for the end of the month slash year slash the world is losing its mind. Katherine: Right. I know like there's been a lot of moments this week where somebody will say something about Christmas and I'm like, Oh, that's, that's on Sunday.Yes. Okay. We are, we are still, there is still Christmas. Yes. Well, thanks for joining me. I am really excited to talk to you about your summit that you are hosting and curating in January for Spiritual Abuse Awareness Month. At the time this episode comes out, it will already be January. So I'm really excited to hear about that.I got to participate in that [00:01:00] last year. We'll be participating again this year. Great time to just connect with other people working in this spiritual abuse, recovery, religious trauma, recovery space, and also. Spiritual Abuse Awareness Month for folks who are not aware is in January. And we were talking before we started recording about when we first heard about Spiritual Abuse Awareness Month.When, when was it for listeners that you first Brian: heard about it? I just learned about it last year because, and I, but to be fair, I've only been doing this work for about a year now. I wish I knew about it sooner. And I think we were both saying it's like, we can't find who originated this thing. But it's been around for at least 20 years, which to me is crazy.Yeah. I learned about it because of Aaron hung, who's an artist who was doing that whole AZ trauma recovery series on her Instagram page. And I was like, spiritually, it'd be some awareness a month. That's a thing. And then the more I dove into it, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is absolutely a thing. And it's been around a long time.Why do we not know more about it? Katherine: Exactly. I was wondering too, when, [00:02:00] when did that book, the oldest probably. Documented writing about spiritual abuse is probably the subtle power of spiritual abuse. I Brian: think that's what I was thinking. Yep. And that was, I think it was written in the 90s. I want to say, okay, I'm going to look for a publication date because I want to be sure.But I remember reading it thinking I was like, did they just write this like a year ago? And it's like, no, it's been around for a very long time. Yeah, Katherine: yeah, yeah. And then even just like the reality that PTSD. Was not an official diagnosis until the 80s. Brian: Yes. Katherine: Yes. We're very new in this trauma world. Yes.We're all very new to this. This is a new, new territory for all of us. Did you, did you find the Brian: date? Amazon says the publication date is 2005, but that seems late to me. I feel like it was before that. It has a very nice Katherine: cover. Brian: It does! Which is why I feel like it is. So now I'm opening my Kindle to look for the actual copyright date on the inside of it.Yeah, Katherine: maybe that was the most [00:03:00] recent Brian: publication. That's what I'm wondering. Library, look for the yellow book right there. The yellow book. Yeah. That's what I call it. The yellow book. Copyright page. 1991. You were right. Boom. Boom. First time. Katherine: First time. Yeah. So I guess that's the first time that that became something Brian: that.People and for reference to me that feels like 10 years ago, but it's 32 years ago.Yes, I know that tells you how old I am feel like that long ago, but because it wasn't it wasn't Katherine: Yeah, I know because i'm like i've lived Yeah, I've lived longer in the 2000s than I lived in the, in the, in the, in the 1900s, 1900s or so. Brian: It's been a while. How dare you? Yes, we are, we are, we're getting, we're getting up there.We're getting up there. Yes, yes we are. [00:04:00] Speaking of Katherine: age, actually I have nothing. Nothing to say about it. I'm just trying to segue talking about broken to beloved, which is your summit that's coming up and to get us started. I would love to hear whatever you feel comfortable sharing about your spiritual abuse story and how can you, you said that you discovered this word, right?Or this phrase, spiritual abuse, this term fairly recently, when did you, maybe just to start out, when did you first hear the term and did you have an aha moment like many of us Brian: do? Gosh, when did I first hear the term? I honestly don't even know, but it was probably from one of the books that I started reading that validated that experience for me.It might have been K. J. Ramsey's book The Lord is My Courage, and I read it more as a, oh, maybe this will help me in a [00:05:00] dark season, and that's one of my favorite psalms anyway, so, and then I didn't realize she was going to go into their whole spiritual abuse story, and then I am a person who reads all the footnotes and then goes and finds all the primary resources and reads those, so Katherine: that's favorite reader.They were like, we put this in here for you. Brian: Yes. Well, and that's, I love footnotes. So, so because of her, I think is, is how I found the subtle power of spiritual abuse. And then from there, I went down the rabbit hole. I mean, something's not right. Redeeming Power, Church Called Tove, Try Softer, Narcissism Comes to Church, you know, all these books.And now in the last two years, I've read over 40. Five books on that topic, which seems overwhelming because it kind of is, but it all came out of my personal experience, right? So I left my last church in July of 2021. I had been there for just about three years, I think. And I walked into that church.[00:06:00] My wife and I have both moved here saying to each other it would be really nice if this works out And if it doesn't because we've already been hurt before I think we're done with ministry for a while Which feels kind of crazy to walk into a church saying that like this is the last stop Yes.Basically. Yeah. Not indefinitely, not forever, but for a while, we're going to just give this a break because we're done. And so, you know, my story goes back over 10 years now, I think I worked at a Christian college as the marketing, as the graphic designer for the marketing department. I had also attended and graduated from that college, which isn't unusual.But it was a completely different experience being a student there than it was being on staff there. And I didn't know what to do with the cognitive dissonance of looking at leaders that I respected and admired Who seemed to preach the gospel and talk about servant leadership and humility and all these things But then I would be sitting in meetings I was like I don't know who this person is who is so [00:07:00] angry and belittling and demeaning and authoritarian and all these pieces And so finally leaving that environment I need to ask you a Katherine: question, just like following up on that, because I feel like that's such a common theme of like the, what you preach and what you teach is not who you are.And I just, I just hear that all the time. And just was talking to someone about the other day about her father, who was a pastor and he. He was a pastor and he would preach these things about like parenting and then he would like not be that type of parent. And I'm just curious from the experience that you had what, what is your take on that of like, why, like, you obviously know what's right.Where, where is this disconnect happening because you can preach it enough to convince people then what's happening here. What's your Brian: [00:08:00] take on that? My take for the last two or three years now has been, it all boils down to the need for power and control. And this message is going to work and this message is going to work.And so the secondary or maybe even tertiary word that comes out of that is optics. It all comes down to optics and the way things look and appear so that I can maintain power and control. And so if I can maintain this image of, then I will continue to have power and control and influence over these people as long as they don't see behind the curtain.And if they do see behind the curtain, it doesn't matter because I control them anyway because I'm their boss, right? Or because I am their spiritual authority or leader or whatever it is. So I, it's wrecking. Man, there's so many ways I can go so the last pastor I had would often say things like when I first started.It's like you have to recognize the hats that you wear when you walk into a room. So I know that I'm the [00:09:00] pastor. So I know that there's a power dynamic. So I had to be aware that when I'm leading a conversation or that there's going to be a shift in something somewhere. But then this is the same guy who would absolutely manipulate that power dynamic.Yeah, or pretend that he was the servant or the victim or the low man on the totem pole is like you don't get it both ways. Like so. So I know that you cognitively know these things to be true. And yet I see you do the polar opposite. And then use those things to twist them to your advantage. Yes. In the way of whether ignorantly or intentionally, both are worse, harming someone else in the process.Katherine: Yeah, and that is the crux of spiritual abuse and why it is devastating and so damaging and so complex and so confusing is like these people are preaching these good messages that they are aware are quote unquote good messages, but [00:10:00] using that intentionally to manipulate and control people. So then these good messages.suddenly become infused with this thing that makes us just terrified. Brian: Poison. It's poison. Katherine: Yeah. And we're just, we're just like, I can't even engage with this, even though some of this stuff is really good, you know, that. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and yet it just causes this. Massive cavern of, of just fear and doubt and trauma.Brian: Yes, I think that's where a lot of the confusion comes from, too, is because, because so much of it is truth, right? Or is based on quote, good intentions or scripture or whatever it is, but then you see it manipulated and twisted. So now you don't know what to believe or what's true or good anymore.Right, and you can't Katherine: trust good people who are saying absolutely, it's like absolutely walk into a room and you're like, are they good or [00:11:00] not, you know, just, just being able to trust, even just what people say and like, and then you're kind of in evangelicalism and church culture, you like you walk into a church and and everyone's believing the same thing.Well, Are, are they, are they, are we, are we all on the same page here? I talked to someone the other day that like teaches their children just because someone is a pastor doesn't mean they're interpreting scripture actually accurately. And I was like, okay, that's a very wise thing to teach your child, but so sad that you're saying.has led you to teach that to your child. Brian: Yeah. Yeah. Same. Well, and I've heard, I've heard parents and other people just like, because normally we instruct our kids to pay attention or listen to the grownups. And I've heard other grown up, other adults and friends say, it's like, actually, that's not always true because grownups won't always tell you the right thing to do, or they might be wanting to hurt you in some kind of way.And it's like, I hate that we have to teach our kids that, but it's, that's [00:12:00] the way of the world today. And it's just really unfortunate and sad and grieving. Katherine: Yes. When you're allowed to be afraid of Santa Claus. Yes. Brian: Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Yes. That's okay if you're afraid. So trust your gut on that one.Yeah. So anyway, so I went through that experience three times in three different environments. Three times. The first time, not necessarily in a row, but very close. So the first time at a college with an older leader, mentor, figure, admired. Second time with a, someone who very young and then I had a short break for about two years and then ended up where I was now with someone who's basically my contemporary.But it's just getting it, getting hit from all sides of it. And I had had enough. So when we left, when I left the church in July of 21, I was like, I am absolutely done for a while and I've got to figure all of this out because I don't know why it keeps happening to me, you know, a result of all the gas lighting is like, it must be my fault.So it must be something wrong in the denominator. [00:13:00] Exactly. And we had already been seeing our counselor therapist for a while. So we just kind of dove into the topic head first. It's like, I just, I'm in a tailspin. I don't know what to do. Like, I don't know which way is up right now, and I just help. Just help.And she, she is a trauma informed therapist, which was extreme. I'm grateful for, because that's not why we started going to her. But that helped to process all of this stuff and then finding these books and finding these resources and chasing the rabbit holes got me to the place was like, okay, I can name spiritual abuse.I can define it. I can name trauma and define it. And after about a year and a half. Of doing that work and processing through the trauma and the abuse. I was like, I think I might be in a place where I feel like I'm doing better and I'm not doing great, but I'm definitely better than I was. And I think I actually have a framework for how I want to help other people because everywhere around me, I see people dealing with the same thing.And I hate that we're all here. Katherine: [00:14:00] Absolutely. Did you have, when you were like doing research, did you have something that you, how are you defining it at the time? You just calling it church hurt. What were you Googling? Brian: What were the things that you? Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, I think it starts with church hurts.That's kind of the phrase that people hear. And then once I got my brain around the term spiritual abuse, I was like, Oh, okay. And then of course everyone quotes, the body keeps a score. So I forced myself through that one. And then through that one learned, learned trauma and then found books on religious trauma and started doing that whole thing.So just coming up with definitions and just kind of collecting all these in a master Google doc for my brain and figuring it out from there. Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. And then at what point did you say? Yeah. So you said that I want to help people and help make sense of this. Where did the vision for broken to beloved come from?Cause last year was the first year, right? April, wait, I guess that's this year, right? [00:15:00] Brian: Yeah, it is. Yeah. April of this year. Yeah. 20, 23 at the time. So it didn't start as broken into beloved. It started as a six week cohort, which I call through, which is based on the children's book. Going on a bear hunt because we can't go around it.Can't go over it. You just got to go through it. Right. And that came up from a friend, Amy. I was speaking at her summit. She does an Enneagram summit and I also do Enneagram coaching, but she said, what do you want to talk about? I was like, this sounds crazy, but. Do you want to talk like, can I talk about like spiritual abuse?She goes, what? We have to do that. And so it just got all my wheels turning and then that's what kind of turned into the cohort. So I, I created a framework for a six week cohort to lead people. You know, and the story of that is like, because I over identified myself as broken for so long, I literally walked into this last church interview with the pastors and elders and said, Listen, they were like, hey, why should we hire you?And my answer was, well, actually, you [00:16:00] don't want to hire me because I'm damaged goods. Let me just disqualify myself to you now because you don't want me because I'm broken and I'm really damaged. So you don't want me here. And so I recognize that I was wearing that as my identity. And so through KJ Ramsey's book, through all these other books that identified Wade Mullin, something's not right and all these other things, it's like, Oh, okay, so maybe I'm not the problem.Yeah, maybe there's stuff broken in the system and it's not to say I'm not blameless for a lot of things because I certainly am but it was Developing a framework for what does it look like to move out of my brokenness and to actually name the things that have happened to Me because we can't heal what we can't name.So naming things is really important Recognizing where I am in time and space so that I can pull myself to the present and recognize when I'm safe when I'm not When I'm triggered or activated when I'm not And then using all the polyvagal theory stuff that she includes in there. And then [00:17:00] recognizing how embodiment is so important and breath practices and mindfulness things and moving forward so that we can recognize, identify, and then embrace our belovedness as our actual identity, not our brokenness.So the cohort came first in October of 2022. It went really, really well. I did it again in January of 23, which is the beginning of the year that we're recording. And so coming out of those two cohorts, I was like, man, it seems like there's an audience for this and a need for it. And all the books that I have read have done a really great job defining terms for me.They do a good job of validating experiences and telling stories. I've read almost nothing that offers what now? Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Like, I just don't know what to do. Like, okay, great. Thanks for sharing the information, but what do I actually do now? Cause I still feel stuck. So the whole point of the broken to beloved summit, which came from the bookends of the cohort of starting broken and ending beloved [00:18:00] was to invite all the authors that I had read and the resources that I had found online, get them in one place and just say, great.What now? What now? What now? And to make it practical, right? So the whole tagline I use for everything is finding a pathway toward healing and wholeness. When Katherine: you were describing yourself as broken when you would walk into these interviews, what did that mean to you? Was that yeah, expound on what that meant and then how is that showing up for Brian: you?I don't know if I've ever been asked that question. I just felt broken. Like my whole brain was. I'm just unsure of what to believe or what was right or wrong. I'm also an Enneagram One, which is very right wrong, black white minded. I always think I have to do things the right way. So for me It was always a, well, if I was fired from this place, or if I had to leave because I was so toxic, what did I do wrong?But other people [00:19:00] loved me, and it was just this group, so maybe it was, maybe it was them, but maybe it was me, but I'm not sure, and I think I'm really good at my job. And people tell me I'm good at my job, but the pastor just told me I'm not and that he needs to replace me because the board told him so even though they've never given me feedback in any of my reviews that anything needed to change when I've been asking for them for years.So it's, it's all that kind of stuff that in your brain messes with you. It's also the the second place that we left, we were friends with. The pastor and his wife, we graduated together. We were alumni together. I was like, we thought we were friends. We hung out at each other's houses. And then to do something like that and to feel so stabbed in the back, really It was a, it was just kind of whiplash, right?It's like, what, what, what happened there? And so what's wrong with me and what's wrong with my relationships? Cause I thought we were okay, but apparently not because then this happens. So walking into this last interview to just say, Hey, I'm damaged goods. I'm broken. I mean, that's really what it was. And then I had [00:20:00] had two years at another church where I.Genuinely thrived for two years. And I was like, Oh, there's actually a different way to do things. Yeah. And I didn't realize that. And then we experienced more trauma. One of our best friends passed away tragically in a car accident. And so that threw everything into tailspin and dealing with the aftermath of that.So it was just kind of like, Hey, we're really not in a good place right now for a transition or for something to change. And yet I felt so. Bound is not the right word I'm looking for, but I'm going to use it by the whole idea of. If God wants to do something here, I don't want to close the door and say no.And I don't say that to over spiritualize anything or myself, but it's just the words that came out of my mouth at the time. So we just kind of kept going with the process. And I remember the first several weeks slash months of having started this job, just trying to be really vulnerable with people and honest, just like, listen, I, I don't come here pretending I'm perfect in any [00:21:00] way I'm really broken right now and we need help. Just so you know that, and I might have some answers or help for you, but I'm coming at it from a position of brokenness and the more I do this work, the more I recognize how okay that really is.Katherine: Yeah, and it kind of sounds like as you're describing. What brokenness was to you? It sounds like trauma, but it sounds like internalized trauma of this is somehow my fault, like these outside messages and this trauma that I'm experiencing is due to something. Brian: Yeah. Potentially. Well, and isn't that part of the toxic theology that a lot of churches teach is like that you are responsible for your sins and how they label everything as sin.So if something bad happened in your life, it must be your fault because you weren't holy enough. You didn't pray enough. You didn't whatever [00:22:00] enough. Right. And it's like not. Not taking into account any of the effects of abuse where the abused actually did nothing. It's like when a woman gets raped, Oh, what were you wearing?How did you contribute? What perfume do you have? It's like, come on, really? But that's where I was mentally, emotionally, all the things. Katherine: Yeah, and that thin layer of, like, you must be sinning or God is, like, sanctifying you and is allowing these happen, these things to happen to, like, grow your faith or, you know, and, like, getting to that place, naming, as you said, getting to that place where you just, you're just able to point out it and to say this was not okay, period.Like should never have happened. We should never should never have had to go through this like this was never an okay thing when you got to your church, the last church and you like was this the church that you were [00:23:00] saying I am broken and I am damaged goods. Yes. And then that Brian: obviously didn't go did not pan out.Was Katherine: that used against you Brian: was what part used against me? The fact that you were Katherine: open about your brokenness. Brian: Yes and no, I would say by the pastor. Yes, because I think in the kindest way I can say this possible, he's a master manipulator. So I think he knew us coming in and me saying those things up front and they pitched themselves very much as, oh, well, we are a healing church.We're a place where people come so they can just receive and sit back and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. And but then, you know, six months, two months, four months, two years later, they're saying, Oh, you're still praying for that thing. You're not healed yet. Are you not over that yet? Right? It's that kind of stuff.And so those are the major red flags that go up. It's like, maybe this is not such a great place. Katherine: Absolutely. Absolutely. So pitching themselves as a healing place and then, and then not. [00:24:00] Not so Brian: much. Yeah, maybe you used to be but not so Katherine: much today. How would you say? broken to beloved is Creating a space that you would say is just like healthier than that Like how how are you seeking to make that a healthy space for Brian: people?Mm hmm. That's a great question. Thank you I don't know cuz I'm still figuring it out. One of the first words that comes to mind is honesty and trying to be honest about Whatever it is that we are feeling or naming or experiencing because one of the things I've learned is that when we try to push away or repress any of those things, we often get ourselves in trouble because it's something is trying to be expressed there.And it doesn't mean that we. Allow rage or ranting to take place just because because there are safe places to do to do that too, but probably not within a general community, right? Within an intimate relationship, [00:25:00] maybe, but not within a an open space. So I think the honesty piece is one of them. I think the openness is another.Another word that comes to mind is kindness. I think there was an interview I did last year with David Gate, who does all that kind of typewriter poetry, which I love. And he said something that really has stuck with me ever since. And it's this idea that you can have all these progressive, or not progressive, all these fundamentalist Christians.Or conservatives or evangelicals or whatever you want to call them who go through this process of abuse and or trauma and then deconstruction and then leave the church or whatever it is, but they don't actually examine or change anything and they just switch over to progressive liberalism or progressivism or whatever it is, and they're still fundamentalists at heart.Absolutely. And I think the fundamentalist piece, the certainty that so many people carry. Doesn't make room for curiosity [00:26:00] and kindness which I think embodies a lot of what I'm trying to do is to be open and curious and kind because I also see voices online who just come across as angry all the time.It's like, I get it. There's room for that. I'm angry too. But, and there are times that I drive by the church and I'm like, can we just burn it all down? Sure. Right. I feel all that, but it doesn't, I don't feel helped or served by it. Yeah. The Psalms, when I did an interview this morning, and the Psalms are 75 to 80 percent imprecatory and lament, so there's plenty of room for honest, raw emotion, but there's also a time and place for it, and it doesn't have to be public, and I don't, actually, here's, here's a good thing, I don't need everyone to agree with me.Because your experience is your own and you need to figure out how you're going to process it. Here's how I've processed mine and I'm not going to prescribe anything to you that you should do it this way too. But I'm going to approach it with openness [00:27:00] and kindness and curiosity and hopefully safety.Yeah. Katherine: Yeah. And I think like that. Openness, kindness, curiosity can create that safety and, and, and having that space where people can come on their own journey and find their own, their own, yeah, like find their own, their own path. And, and, and that's also just sort of like, Anti the opposite of what we experienced in the church of like, only me, the person with the, you know, title can tell you what is helpful and what, what God is really saying and putting that agency back into each individual person is sweet.Not what we were taught church and we were taught not to trust ourselves in the church context. And so, yeah, I love that, that openness, openness, kindness, and curiosity. I love it. What are some of your hopes and [00:28:00] dreams for the summit?Brian: I hope that it's helpful. I hope that it feels practical for people. I hope that people walk away with a sense of, I mean, the three words I use most often are hope, healing, and wholeness. And I say that knowing that there is real harm done when others try to prescribe a timeline to your healing. That healing is not a destination, right?And I think Laura Anderson just wrote about this in her book. It's like healing is not a destination. It's not an arrival point. It's something that we are just Doing probably for the rest of our lives. So when I say that, it's not like, Hey, show up to the summit and you will be healed. Absolutely not. But I do hope it gives you really practical tools that you can walk away with and say, Oh, this thing will help me.Right. This thing will help me to take a step. And so we had 1, 200 people register last year, which blows my mind for trying something for the first time. [00:29:00] So I it would be great to have as many or more. Not because of numbers, because God knows I hate numbers because so many churches are driven by it. But the idea that people are helped.And and moved in that direction of healing and wholeness and hope, I think so many of us who go through this kind of abuse or trauma walk away feeling so isolated, broken, like you're saying, with a lack of agency or not empowered that my hope is that you walk away with a sense of hope, feeling empowered and a sense of agency to take control of something in your life because so much of it has been stripped away from you.I think those are the kinds of things I hope for. Yeah, Katherine: absolutely. And I think even just the reality that we can like walk into a space and it's, you know, 18 or whatever speakers all speaking on something similar. And so there's this awareness that like, at least all of these people have, have, have some experience with this thing.I've gone through this or understand this and that [00:30:00] validation of like, yes, oh, people are talking about this. And people see this as something that is really important and causes a lot of pain and deserves attention, deserves an entire summit. I think that that in itself is, is So validating and so helpful.What's, what is some information about this? What can you tell us about how folks can find the summit register if they're ready for it?Brian: Sure. We do have dates. We will be January 23rd through 26th. Last year was 3 days. I learned that was too short to pack that many speakers talking about trauma and abuse. So I'm spreading it out over 4 days and I'm inviting less speakers. So it's not so overwhelming every day. If you go to BrokenToBeloved. org slash subscribe, you can join my mailing list, which is where I'll probably send information first. Or you can just follow me on Instagram, which are where I post when I have time to[00:31:00] at BrokenToBeloved.Okay. All Katherine: right. I'll all of this information in the show notes Brian: so folks can read it. Thank you. Katherine: And I'm very excited to be there and to be a part of it, watch all of the speakers. And is there anything else that you want to share about broken to beloved the cohort. Your journey, Brian: anything? No, I, I mean, we are like you, a 501 C three.So if you're looking for someone to support or an organization, this is the work that we're trying to do. So you can just go to same broken to beloved. org and you can find all the stuff there. I'm super grateful for you and your work and having stumbled across you last year. I, I love and support the stuff that you're doing as well.Grateful to have you at the summit twice now. Um, And just love doing the work with you. Katherine: Yeah, so I'm glad to partner in this with you as well. Thanks so Brian: much. Thank you.

This episode is actually part 2 of a conversation I had with KJ where we talked about her book The Book of Common Courage. She shared such wisdom that I wanted to give this portion on the body, pain, and more it's own episode. Enjoy. If you're a fan of the show, please like, subscribe, and leave a positive review on your podcast app.  You can also support me financially on Patreon at: patreon.com/threeblackmen Finally, you can check out my writing at: https://musingsfromabrokenheart.substack.com

In this episode, we sit down with writer and counselor KJ Ramsey to talk about her book The Lord is My Courage, and how to find compassion and courage in the midst of anxiety and fear.   Resources referenced: The Lord is My Courage Get KJ's newest book: The Book of Common Courage   — One of the best ways to support the show is by becoming a Patron. Your support helps us continue producing this show. Follow us on social: Instagram Twitter Editing and support by The Good Podcast Co. If you would like to sponsor this show, email sponsor@thegoodpodcast.co

We continue the conversation on chronic illness and personhood with our friend, the brilliant author and therapist, K.J. Ramsey. K.J. offers profound and practical wisdom on suffering and chronic illness, and she's ennea-fluent. Her books include: This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering LingersThe Lord is My Courage: Stepping Through the Shadows of Fear to the Voice of LoveBook of Common Courage[1:45] What K.J. had for breakfast this morning.[2:30] Linz nerds out with KJ on all things Michigan and Tennessee[4:50] K.J.'s experience with and relationship to suffering. [9:00] K.J.'s complicated relationship with “self care” & needs as signals[12:15] K.J.'s journey as an enneagram Type 4[15:05] Pain as a witness[20:40] The importance of being brutally honest and looking inward[26:30] The importance of language (poetics) as it relates to our stories of pain and suffering[32:00] How we can redeem our language when talking about our bodies[36:00] A practical & somatic example, with Linz as volunteer, of how to have a conversation with our bodies[44:00] How to hold “positive” language (like hope) in a healthy way[48:45] Hope as a team sport[53:00] Managing emotions alongside chronic illness[1:03:00] K.J. reads an excerpt from her most recent book, The Book of Common CourageFollow K.J.'s work (and buy her books!): @kjramseywrites on social media and www.kjramsey.com—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

65: A few poems to celebrate National Poetry Month Featuring Poems by Ellen Everett, KJ Ramsey, Drew Jackson, Wendell Berry, Mary Oliver, and Tanner Olson Ellen Everett Ellen's ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠If Hearts Had Training Wheels: A Poetry Collection⁠ (book) ⁠I Saw You As A Flower: A Poetry Collection⁠ (book) KJ Ramsey KJ's Instagram The Book of Common Courage (Book of Poetry) More Drew Jackson Drew Jackson's⁠ ⁠⁠Instagram⁠ Drew Jackson's⁠ ⁠⁠Website⁠ ⁠Touch The Earth⁠ (Latest collection of poetry) Peace of Wild Things by Wendell Berry Devotions by Mary Oliver Links ⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠: Support the Ministry ⁠⁠⁠⁠Written to Wear⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Clothing Line ⁠⁠⁠⁠Written to Speak⁠⁠⁠⁠ (Website) ⁠⁠Book me!⁠⁠ Inquire about an event Books ⁠⁠⁠⁠Walk A Little Slower⁠⁠⁠⁠: A Collection of Poems and Other Words ⁠⁠⁠⁠Continue⁠⁠⁠⁠: Poems and Prayers of Hope ⁠⁠⁠⁠As You Go⁠⁠⁠⁠: Words for the Unknown ⁠⁠⁠⁠I'm All Over the Place⁠⁠⁠⁠ Find me on⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠,⁠⁠⁠⁠ Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠, and⁠⁠⁠⁠ Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠. Send your questions to writtentospeak@gmail.com Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.writtentospeak.com/podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more. The music for this podcast is by Matt Doering. Find more of Matt's work at ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.mattdoeringmusic.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠ About Tanner Olson Tanner Olson is an author, poet, speaker, and podcaster. He lives in Nashville, TN with his wife Sarah and their dog, Pancake. The mission of Tanner's writing is to spread hope and announce love through written and spoken word poetry. From classrooms to churches to coffee shops to conferences, Tanner has traveled the country performing poetry, delivering messages of hope, and sharing stories. You can find Tanner's work at⁠⁠⁠⁠ writtentospeak.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and @writtentospeak on Instagram.

Have you asked yourself recently the question, "Am I currently whole?". If you have, what then did you do? Suzanne and KJ are going to unpack what courage is, what it isn't, and talk about so much more. If you're new to KJ Ramsey (enneagram 4), you can find out more about her at kjramsey.com where you can also get your copy of The Book of Common Courage. You can also listen to KJ and Suzanne from their first conversation on The Journey back in May of 2022. PLUG TIME! Broken to Beloved online Summit The Gospel for Enneagram online Summit The 2024 LTM Cohort Program Support LTM TODAY'S INTRO: Family Guy (Seahorse Seashell Party S10 E2 FOX) Parks and Recreation (Go Big or Go Home S3 E1 NBC) Gangster's Paradise (feat. L.V.), Coolio KJ Ramsey on TEJ Podcast (May 2022)

Listen along as we look at the reality and ramifications of the resurrection. Notes//Quotes: Galatians 1:1-5 “Jesus never wrote a book, raised an army, or ruled a realm. And yet he has become, by any measure, the most influential person who has ever lived.” Rebecca McLaughlin “It is hard today to understand just how offensive the idea of a crucified messiah would have been to most first-century Jews. Since no one would have made up the idea of a crucified messiah, Jesus must really have existed, must really have raised messianic expectations, and must really have been crucified.” - Bart Ehrman “One could simply dismiss the resurrection as a lie, and declare belief in the risen Jesus to be the product of a deludable mind. However, there is this nagging fact to consider: one after another of those who claimed to have witnessed the risen Jesus went to their own gruesome deaths refusing to recant their testimony. That is not, in itself, unusual. Many zealous Jews died horribly for refusing to deny their beliefs. But these first followers of Jesus were not being asked to reject matters of faith based on events that took place centuries, if not millennia, before. They were being asked to deny something they themselves personally, directly encountered.” - Reza Aslan “This event is psychologically surprising. It would have been as unexpected as Richard Dawkins, the vocal Oxford atheist, suddenly announcing that Jesus appeared to him in his study and that he was now a Christian. While we might think he was crazy, it would be hard to deny that something extraordinary had taken place to bring about such a complete reversal. In fact, the conversion of Paul is even more surprising than the hypothetical conversion of Dawkins, given that Paul embraced not a world religion with billions of followers but a despised, persecuted religious sect with no power and few adherents. Therefore, anyone who doubts the resurrection must provide a plausible account of why Paul underwent such a dramatic conversion in such a short period of time.” Neil Shenvi “The complaint of the depressive individual, “Nothing is possible,” can only occur in a society that thinks, “Nothing is impossible.” The depressive has been wounded by internalized war. Depression is the sickness of a society that suffers from excessive positivity. It reflects a humanity waging war on itself. The exhausted, depressive achievement-subject grinds itself down, so to speak. It is tired, exhausted by itself, and at war with itself. Entirely incapable of stepping outward, of standing outside itself, of relying on the Other, on the world, it locks its jaws on itself; paradoxically, this leads the self to hollow and empty out. It wears itself out in a rat race it runs against itself.” - Byung-Chul Han, The Burnout Society “Paul's point (in writing) is not simply that God is now my Father and I am now His son. God, in Jesus' great work of redemption, was not establishing a series of isolated personal relationships with His individual followers. He was creating a family of sons and daughters—siblings—who are now "all one in Christ Jesus.” The saving work of Christ therefore has a corporate, as well as an individual, dimension. For Paul, the church is a family.” - Joseph Hellerman, When the Church Was A Family "Grace means there is nothing I can do to make God love me more, and nothing I can do to make God love me less. It means that I, even I who deserve the opposite, am invited to take my place at the table in God's family.” - Philip Yancey “This isn't about “going to heaven.” It is about the launch of God's “age to come” here and now, in the midst of the messy “present evil age.” For Paul the “new age” began, when Jesus of Nazareth came out of the tomb on the first Easter morning. The gospel message is all about something that has happened in Jesus, as a result of which the world is a different place. Jesus-followers are summoned to recognize that they now live in that different world and are to order their lives accordingly.” - N.T. Wright Our true Good Shepherd Holds dirty feet in his  God-hands and asks us  To let him love us Down to the dirt Under our toenails  KJ Ramsey  Lord, You are the Shepherd who is always more ready To serve than we are to be served. Wash us with the water of your welcome. Wipe our imaginations clean Of the assumption that we are too dirty to love. May we let you love us down to the dirt under our toenails And the darkness in the crevices of our souls  And so learn the direction of love is down. For you are the God who gets on the ground. KJ Ramsey

On this episode I sit down with author KJ Ramsey and talk about her book, pain, finding God and more. If you're a fan of the show, please like, subscribe, and leave a positive review on your podcast app.  You can also support me financially on Patreon at: patreon.com/threeblackmen Finally, you can check out my writing at: https://musingsfromabrokenheart.substack.com

Evangeline and Mandy sit down at the digital pub table to interview KJ Ramsey—author, artist, and trauma-informed therapist. KJ discusses how her art and recent book of prayers and poems has been influenced by her own story and practice as a trauma-informed therapist. Kj and the cohosts also discuss how grief can be a gateway that helps us connect our own stories to the Great Story. Find KJ at www.kjramsey.com and The Book of Common Courage at BookOfCommonCourage.com 

Thank you for listening to My Yes Is On The Table, a podcast hosted by Jennifer Hand and Coming Alive Ministries.  Today Jenn welcomes KJ Ramsey to discuss her new book, The Book of Common Courage.  KJ is a trauma-informed licensed professional counselor and author. KJ Ramsey's new book, The Book of Common Courage: Prayers and Poems to Find Strength in Small Moments The Lord is My Courage book Connect with KJ Ramsey: Website, Facebook, Instagram Connect with Jenn: Instagram, Facebook, Website DONATE to Coming Alive Ministries

Welcome to the At Sea podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. The emphasis I've placed so far this season on the practice of poetry actually positions us to have some conversations well to continue some conversations that I care a whole lot about. Really specifically beginning with this episode of Focus, concentrated focus on the intersection and overlap between psychotherapy and religious practice. As someone who's benefited both from therapy and spiritual direction, this intersection is a place I experienced a great deal of life while also coming to a great deal of very complex and really interesting questions about what it means to be me, what it means to be human, what it means to have relationship what it means to be a person of faith.One of my favorite people working in that intersection at that intersection is KJ Ramsay. KJ works at that intersection as a therapist and an author who talks profoundly about issues of faith. And it just so happens, has recently produced a volume of poems and prayers, which makes such a beautiful bridge into the heart of this conversation about what it means to be fully human. To value that which is beyond our understanding and to dig really deeply and thoughtfully into the things we can and should understand, like brain chemistry. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, and I think you will as well. Check it out.Links for KJ RamseyWebsite - https://www.kjramsey.comLatest Book - The Book Of Common Courage

Feeling overwhelmed or stuck in a rut? KJ Ramsey has the answer. In this video, we'll be talking to KJ about her newly released book, "The Book Of Common Courage". She'll be discussing how to find strength in small moments and how to use those moments to build resilience and courage. We'll also have Beth and Jeff join us to talk about how KJ's book has changed their lives and how it can help you find strength in your own life. Join us for this inspiring interview and learn how to find strength in small moments!   Chapter Markings: 00:00 - Introduction 02:11 - Meet KJ 02:50 - KJ's Journey To Her Books 12:08 - Fear is a Strength 19:00-  KJ's book “The Lord is My Courage” 24:44 - KJ's new book “The Book of Common Courage 33:21 - Practicing Prayer   In this inspiring interview, KJ Ramsey, author of "The Book of Common Courage", enlightens Beth and Jeff on how her book can help us find strength and courage in our daily lives. She explains how practicing prayer and reciting poems and psalms can be tools to bring peace and courage in moments of adversity. With her book, KJ offers readers invaluable insight into how they can find their own strength and courage no matter the circumstance. Tune in to this insightful interview with KJ Ramsey and learn more about the power of her work!   Order Beth and Jeff's new book, More Than Your Number: https://amzn.to/3z9OZ7e    Discover your Type, learn what it means, and transform your life with the Discovering You course: https://www.yourenneagramcoach.com/discoveringyou    Learn how your Enneagram Type affects your marriage with Beth and Jeff's book, Becoming Us: https://amzn.to/3vEhyrh    Accelerate your personal growth and spiritual renewal with The Enneagram Collection Journals: https://www.yourenneagramcoach.com/journals  References:It's About Time: The Six Styles of Procrastination and How to Overcome Them https://amzn.to/3Pv1QYg    #Enneagram #KJ Ramsey #PersonalityType`

 Join the Patreon Book Club here: https://www.patreon.com.untangledfaith In the introduction to her book, The Book of Common Courage: Prayers and Poems to find strength in small moments, KJ Ramsey says this: “I titled this book The Book of Common Courage because courage is something we hold in common. Courage is not the possession of the bravest or biggest but the choice to move toward the heart when the mind and body are separated by fear. Courage is the choice to move our fear into communion. When we don't have words we need a witness. We need with-ness.”  Is it possible to be courageous and fearful at the same time? And what does it look like to start with being a compassionate witness to our own pain? Author KJ Ramsey joins Amy Fritz for this discussion.   Topics covered: *Social media boundaries. *Courage as something you can cultivate. *Courage begins by being a compassionate witness to yourself. "When we tell the truth about what we've lived, particularly when we have experienced harm, people will not like having to hear because it requires change."- KJ Ramsey   Links: KJ's newest book, The Book of Common Courage https://amzn.to/3DcwBMw Suzanne Stabile on The Next Right Thing podcast with Emily P. Freeman https://emilypfreeman.com/podcast/253/   Related Episodes: https://untangledfaithpodcast.com/2022/07/06/45-for-the-ones-who-wonder-if-there-really-is-a-good-shepherd-guest-kj-ramsey/   Support the show: Subscribe to my newsletter: https://untangledfaith.substack.com Join us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/untangledfaith This podcast is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. For more information and for 10% off your first month, visit Faithful Counseling- https://faithfulcounseling.com/untangled Where you can find me: Youtube channel- https://youtube.com/channel/UCPfFk-I6QShXXvEpSFaJOvg https://untangledfaithpodcast.com https://instagram.com/untangledfaith  https://instagram.com/amyhenningfritz https://twitter.com/faithuntangled https://twitter.com/amyfritz   Host/Creator: Amy Fritz Producers: Michele Pjanic Phil and Susan Perdue Pam Forsythe Chelle Taylor  

We've all experienced moments of pain and suffering. And while all of us carry different crosses, suffering is something that is part of every one of our stories. But how do you pray when you struggle to find words to express your pain and trauma? How do you validate the emotions you experience in the valleys of life and embrace them as a gift instead of stuffing them down some place deep inside you? And in those hard seasons that seem to stretch on forever, how can you refresh your faith and find peace that lasts? In this episode of Letters to Women, I'm sitting down with K.J. Ramsey. She intimately understands the reality of fear and the reward of courage. A survivor of spiritual abuse and religious trauma who suffers from chronic illness, KJ is a licensed counselor who recognizes the chasm that opens between our hearts and hope when life hurts. Through her struggle with emotional and physical pain, K.J. discovered a route to connection and joy:courage— the practice of trusting we will be held and loved no matter what. We're talking about praying the Psalms word by word, how courage has impacted KJ's journey of trauma and chronic pain, and the importances of witnesses in our lives as women. If you're walking through a valley or a challenging season and want to cultivate courage and compassion and reignite joy, sister, this letter is for you. Topics we talked about in this episode: The inspiration behind KJ's new book, The Book of Common Courage: Prayers and Poems to Find Strength in Small Moments and what it was like to write a book on courage while experiencing chronic illness What courage looks like as a practice How encountering poetry both from the Psalms and other authors helps us enter into prayer—especially in seasons when it's difficult to find words Why the presence of witnesses and the experience of with-ness crucial in seasons of suffering How KJ has witnessed the co-existing of courage and suffering KJ's encouragement to you if trusting others with your story is challenging How KJ lives out the feminine genius in her ordinary, daily life as a woman encouraging others in the practice of finding courage to heal Resources you should check out after listening to this episode: Get a copy of The Book of Common Courage Read KJ's book that came out in 2022, The Lord is My Courage Explore KJ's website and connect with her on social media The Alchemy of Grief by Annamarie Fidel Rice Pick up a copy of the Letters to Women book (and use the code LETTERS at checkout to receive 15% off your purchase!) Check out the sponsor for today's episode, The Little Catholic Box Subscribe and Review Letters to Women in iTunes Are you subscribed to Letters to Women? If not, you should subscribe today! You don't want to miss any of the upcoming episodes. Click here to subscribe in iTunes.

Today's episode looks more deeply at the spiritual abuse KJ Ramsey suffered at the hands of Christian leaders. We begin by talking about the relationship that many Christians have with their emotions. Drawing from her story of spiritual abuse, KJ talks about the pull to silence parts of ourselves in the name of belonging. We each have a deep desire to belong… and the fear of exclusion sometimes keeps us bound to abusive people and harmful churches. KJ explains that when we are wounded by spiritual leaders, we often lose our ability to trust ourselves. If you want to hear more of KJ's story, check out her recently published book titled The Lord Is My Courage. 

I am joined by KJ Ramsey to talk through her new book, “The Lord Is My Courage.” KJ explains why it's so important to be honest and clear about the ways we have been harmed, and how our bodies often reveal truths about our trauma that our minds are afraid to speak out loud. Gabor Mate says that “Trauma is not what happens to us, but what we hold inside in the absence of an empathetic witness.” KJ and I both love that sentence and share our thoughts about it. 

This episode is basically a therapy session for us all. We discussed Chapter 7 of What Cannot Be Lost: Honest to God. What does it mean to be honest with the Lord and those around us? And how can we tell who is safe to be vulnerable around? Let's discuss.  Register for the Dallas Event: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/book-launch-q-a-event-with-melissa-zaldivar-and-bethany-barnard-tickets-458825368027

Deconstruction around suffering often happens because our theology and lived experience do not match up. Why would a loving and good God allow so many terrible things to happen in the world? Paul, Alyssa and Larry take on this challenging topic and talk about their own experiences. Sources: This Too Shall Last, by KJ Ramsey “There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.” - Stephen Hawking, Stephen Hawking Was an Atheist. Here’s What He Said About God, Heaven, and His Own Death, com Summary of Job, The Message Bible, by Eugene Peterson Peace is a Practice, by Morgan Harper Nichols A Grace Disguised, by Jerry Sittser Where is God Where it Hurts? by Philip Yancey Community Groups: GriefShare, Divorce Care, Overcome – org

Today KJ Ramsey and I discuss Religious Trauma and Spiritual Abuse

I started reading "The Lord is My Courage," by KJ Ramsey, last week and quickly realized, it would be on a short list of books that did some profound life-changing work deep in my heart that permanently changes my trajectory of faith.  As I've deconstructed a lot of the unhealthy lenses taught to me by fellow brothers and sisters in those unhealthy cultures themselves, my view in how I see our wonderful God was turned upside down for the better as I truly grappled with God's love and what that means, that God loves me.   Where I have felt a bit stuck, was learning how to pursue and relate to my drastically upgraded view of God.  This book truly seems to be filling in lots of gaps.  Jesus is the shepherd who will seek me when I'm lost; until I'm found.  I can trust this.  The shepherd is God. -- Joey Enjoy these conversations?  Check out the digital community version of Pastor With No Answers Podcast,  Bear W/ Community, only patrons have access to:Read about it HERE.Watch a quick video HERE.   Join HERE.   These perks may change your life.KJ Henry (guest) / Instagram / Book / Website Joey Svendsen (host) / Instagram / Twitter / Facebook / E-mailPodcast SocialsPWNA Discussion Facebook Group / YouTubeANNOUNCEMENTS / LINKS4 Week Experiencee-mail the PWNA team here.Thanks //  Derek Minor for theme song and Joel Hamilton / Joel Hamilton + friends for other music.Support the show

Type 4s are the Introspective Individualist. In this episode, you'll see that Type 4s share the same Core Motivations in being seen and loved for exactly who they are – special and unique. But each person has a unique story and set of circumstances that cause various parts to show up in different ways according to their EIP (Enneagram Internal Profile). Thank you to our guest, K.J. Ramsey (Type 4). Connect with KJ: New Book: The Lord Is My Courage — K.J. Ramsey - https://amzn.to/3cq0KxO Social Media: @kjramseywrites Preorder our new book, More Than Your Number, by Beth and Jeff McCord: https://amzn.to/3z9OZ7e Discover your Type, learn what it means, and transform your life with the Discovering You course: https://www.yourenneagramcoach.com/discoveringyou Learn how your Enneagram Type affects your marriage with Beth and Jeff's book, Becoming Us: https://amzn.to/3vEhyrh Accelerate your personal growth and spiritual renewal with The Enneagram Collection Journals: https://www.yourenneagramcoach.com/journals #Enneagram4 #Type4 #KJRamsey

What is hope without hardship? What is story without suffering? What is community without understanding? Today's guest, therapist and author KJ Ramsey walks us through: -her experiences with autoimmune disease and disability -how we can find God in nature and friendship -Why success can sometimes become a burden -How we can keep hope alive when things feel like a dumpster fire You will love KJ! This interview is life-giving and full of wisdom. And laughter, of course.

Does God hear us when we hurt? As she's walked through pain from an autoimmune disease and an abusive church experience, author and trauma therapist KJ Ramsey has discovered she meets Jesus in her story not in spite of her suffering, but because of it.   Quotes “The suffering in our stories becomes a place where we get to encounter God—God Himself. Jesus made pain into a portal, and when I can sit down trying to find the purpose in my pain, I get to step through that portal again and again.” —KJ Ramsey “My faith has ebbed and flowed and grown and changed so much over the years and will continue to.” —KJ Ramsey “I've actually experienced Jesus come near to me and show me His own broken heart and broken body and it's been a process of getting to see Jesus again and again. It's not that my faith was small and then grew seeing Jesus once, but that every time that my heart is broken again, Jesus shows me His again, too.” —KJ Ramsey   KJ Ramsey's LinksKJ Ramsey's website KJ Ramsey's Facebook KJ Ramsey's Twitter KJ Ramsey's Instagram   Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Lord is My Courage: Stepping Through the Shadows of Fear Toward the Voice of Love by KJ Ramsey   Connect with Sally Lloyd-JonesJesus Storybook Bible Facebook Jesus Storybook Bible Instagram  Sally's website Sally's Facebook Sally's Instagram

Author and therapist K.J. Ramsey has experienced her fair share of “church hurt,” but she doesn't want you to call it that. On this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church, Lathan and K.J dive into why it's important to call church hurt what it really is: trauma and spiritual abuse. Together the two also hit on what it means to be truly beloved by Jesus, how our feelings can actually point us back to God, and why the relationship between our body and our spirituality is so vital. This is an ongoing conversation we all need to be part of, regardless of what our experiences with church and spiritual authority have looked like in the past. Episode Timeline: [0:29] What “beloved” means to K.J. [1:29] Clearing the Confusion: Psalm 23[4:21] The problem with the term “church hurt” [13:30] Why does pain have to become personal before we do something? [19:14] Defensiveness of the church [27:02] K.J.'s word for the one wounded sheep [31:43] The most fascinating thing about the body according to K.J. [36:21] The desire for kindness from church authority [41:09] K.J.'s Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: The Lord is my Courage This Too Shall LastSocial: Stay connected with K.J. through her website, on Instagram, or subscribe to her Substack, Embodied. 

Author KJ Ramsey joins Amy Fritz to talk about KJ's new book The Lord Is My Courage: Stepping Through the Shadows of Fear Toward the Voice of Love. This is for you if you've ever struggled with knowing what to share and when to share your experience of spiritual abuse. This is for you if you've walked through the valley and wondered if the Good Shepherd was actually “good” because your own experience with those supposed to be shepherds left you hurting. KJ Ramsey is one of the kindest and most insightful voices I listen to in regard to spiritual abuse. I can't wait for you to listen. Time stamps: [00:02:58] What's it like to have Ryan (KJ's husband) becoming more known as he shares his voice with the world? [00:05:43] The writing process and working out your thoughts in public. [00:10:12] How do you decide what to share and when to share it? [00:17:00] How raw should we be when sharing our stories? [00:19:50] Aren't we just airing dirty laundry? [00:21:25] We don't have to so tightly guard this thing that Christ has promised will prevail. [00:25:20] Using Psalm 23 as the scaffolding of The Lord is My Courage. [00:34:15] Where are the shepherds? [00:35:50] Goodness and love are hounding us. [00:38:30] Feeling less of a concern to gatekeep about getting everything right.   Resources: The Lord Is My Courage: Stepping Through the Shadows of Fear Toward the Voice of Love This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering Lingers Narcissism and the System it Breeds by Dr. Diane Langberg This podcast is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. For more information and for 10% off your first month, visit Faithful Counseling here. Are you interested in starting a podcast? Our sponsor, Libsyn, makes it easy. As a friend of the Untangled Faith podcast, when you sign up with Libsyn, you get your first month of hosting for free. Sign up here and use the code: FRIEND.  This episode is made possible by the support of the Untangled Faith membership community. For more information and to access the bonus audio with KJ visit: Untangled Faith Podcast is creating a podcast. | Patreon   Newsletter signup Paypal Donation Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Host/Creator: Amy Fritz Producer: Michelle Pjanic Related Episodes: 7: Pastoring People Who Have Experienced Church Hurt. Guest: Ryan Ramsey   27: Ryan Ramsey- A message for people who have lost their faith community & for those who care about them.

If you believed your body was unsafe, the source of sin, what caused others to stumble, this episode is for you. With kindness and clarity, KJ Ramsey leads us back to a God who made us for safety. In this episode we learn that: there is no division between our minds and our bodies your body is the place where God personally resides it is impossible to trust without a felt sense of safety practices that help us regulate how to cue safety Partner with us for $3/month to get a ticket to the Green Room! We meet on Friday July 1 (US, 10pm EST) and Saturday July 2 (Australia, 12pm AEDT) to talk all things purity culture recovery. Get a ticket here. Full show notes here (including resources about tapping) Instagram Twitter K.J. Ramsey is a trauma-informed licensed professional counselor and writer whose work offers space to see every part of our souls and stories as sacred. She holds degrees from Covenant College and Denver Seminary and is the author of This Too Shall Last. Her writing has been published in Christianity Today, RELEVANT, The Huffington Post, Health Central, Catalyst, and Fathom Magazine on the integration of theology, psychology, and spiritual formation. She and her husband, Ryan, live near Denver, Colorado. Connect with K.J. online at kjramsey.com and across social media @kjramseywrites. 

K.J. Ramsey is a trauma-informed licensed professional counselor and author whose work offers space to see every part of our souls and stories as sacred. She holds degrees from Covenant College and Denver Seminary and is the author of This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering Lingersand The Lord is My Courage: Stepping Through the Shadows of Fear Toward the Voice of Love. K.J. writes at the intersection of theology, psychology, and spiritual formation to guide us in recovering the rhythm of resilience through nervous system regulation and the wonder of communion with God. She and her husband Ryan, along with their two exceptionally cuddly dogs, Merton and Resa, live near Denver, Colorado where K.J. listens for the liturgy of life in wildflowers, sunsets, sorrow, and church. Connect with her online at kjramsey.com and across social media @kjramseywrites.

Today on The Conversation, Adam talks with author & therapist, KJ Ramsey, about the ugly side of our experience with church— church trauma & spiritual abuse. KJ shares so much wisdom about what church trauma and spiritual abuse look like, how to recognize it in yourself or someone else, & what to do if you've experienced church trauma. They also discuss what pastors, bosses, and leaders can do to understand how people you lead experience your presence, and for pastors and leaders to process your own (church) trauma as well.This is a painful topic for so many. Wherever you are today, this episode will equip you with the tools to start to get curious, to name what you've experienced and acknowledge it to yourself, to share with a friend, or to share with a counselor.Get a copy of KJ's new book, The Lord Is My Courage, here: amzn.to/3b3aPQg

Oooooh, you're going to hear in Suzanne's voice how excited she gets in today's episode because of the greatness of the guest, Enneagram 4, KJ Ramsey. KJ is a trauma-informed licensed porfessional counselor and author whose work offers space to see every part of our souls and stories as sacred. They'll talk some in this episode about one of her books, This Too Shall Last, and she has a new book coming out soon: The Lord Is My Courage. Find out more about KJ at kjramsey.com TODAY'S PLUG! Dallas and Denver, The Enneagram Journey Toward Wholeness is coming to you! What are people saying about the book and podcast tour so far? "This weekend wasn't what I was expecting, and it was exactly what I needed." Join Suzanne as she teaches along side her newest book, The Journey Toward Wholeness, and learn from and with her and her guests on The Enneagram Journey podcast as the show is recorded live. Visit lifeinthetrinityministry.com/tour22 for information and tickets for the stops in June in Dallas and July in Denver. See you there! We hope you listen to the information about From Intentional To Intuitive, Suzanne's biggest event of the year in August at FUMC Dallas or join online. Visit suzannestabile.com or lifeinthetrinityministry.com for more information and registration. This is the event that your Journey has been leading you to. Today's Introduction: "Dinner Party", The Office Season 4: Episode 13 From The Enneagram Journey with guest Meredith McDaniel, February 2020 Pain from the anime and manga series, Naruto

When we cannot hold onto hope, we can ask to be heard. When we can no longer bear the weight of brokenness, we can let someone hear our sighs and cries.  "Scripture says that faith comes by hearing, but I know it also comes by being heard." @kjramseywrites shares a beautiful message on the power of allowing our weaknesses to be witnessed.Leave KJ a comment: https://incourage.me/?p=223255Getting ready for Easter? At dayspring.com, you'll find just the right resources to experience Jesus in a whole new way this season. From meaningful cards and gifts to Bibles and beautiful jewelry, DaySpring has just what you need to get your heart and home ready to celebrate. Use code PODCAST10 to get $10 off your order at dayspring.com! The (in)courage podcast is brought to you by DaySpring, makers of your favorite cards, books, and gifts. Visit them today at DaySpring.com. 

We're thrilled to finally share with you that we're adding three new writers to the (in)courage family! Please join us in warmly welcoming Barb Roose, Kayla Craig, and KJ Ramsey to (in)courage! Read and leave a comment on today's article to welcome them: https://incourage.me/2022/04/introducing-three-new-incourage-contributors.htmlGetting ready for Easter? At dayspring.com, you'll find just the right resources to experience Jesus in a whole new way this season. From meaningful cards and gifts to Bibles and beautiful jewelry, DaySpring has just what you need to get your heart and home ready to celebrate. Use code PODCAST10 to get $10 off your order at dayspring.com!The (in)courage podcast is brought to you by DaySpring, makers of your favorite cards, books, and gifts. Visit them today at DaySpring.com. 

Joy and sorrow can coexist. But how do you live within the intersection of the two?  KJ Ramsey, Enneagram 4w5 and Author of This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering Lingers, joins me for a vulnerable conversation about suffering and faith, the tension between joy and sorrow, and finding redemption when we learn to truly live in the middle.   K.J. Ramsey is a licensed therapist, writer, and recovering idealist who believes sorrow and joy coexist. Her writing has been published in The Huffington Post, Health Central, Catalyst, and Fathom Magazine on the integration of theology, psychology, and spiritual formation. She and her husband live in Denver, Colorado. Follow K.J.'s writing at kjramsey.com and across social media at @kjramseywrites.

Dr. Mitsch continues his interview with author, KJ Ramsey, about suffering and grace.  

Dr. Mitsch interviews author and therapist, KJ Ramsey, whose book, "This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace when Suffering Lingers" was the basis of a wide-ranging conversation about suffering, pain, lament, and grace.  

I was setting up to interview an upcoming guest when she told me “I'm sorry I'll have to be pretty strict with the hour and leave right away. I'm seeing my therapist right after this.” “Absolutely,” I told her.  “We'll probably talk for 45 min.”“Great. I'm really looking forward to this session with her.” Now, it's not just of note that this guest was looking forward to her therapy session; but also of note that this guest is a Spiritual Director. Therapy is not for “weak” people. Therapy is for people Who wants to live into their strengths. Therapy is not for “broken” people Therapy is for people who want to want to live healed and whole. Therapy is not for “sick” people Therapy is for people who value their health. Part of what I think you'll hear in my conversation with KJ Ramsey is that posture towards therapy and what is now often called “self-care.”  The practice and belief that confessing and facing my shortcomings is an expression of health and strength. Check it out. 

Episode 044 - Your Suffering is Sacred (With K.J. Ramsey) Are you allergic to happy clappy Christianity? There's a good reason for thats. Churches that ignore suffering are ignoring Jesus. Many churches are not good at holding suffering. People who find themselves in extended suffering — maybe living with depression or anxiety, other mental health issues, or even invisible chronic illness — sometimes find there's not a place for them in the church. In this episode, I talk with KJ Ramsey who has particular experience with this, and we talk about the gospel according to suffering. Show Notes "There needs to be more room in the Body of Christ to stand in the ground of our sorrow and see our suffering Savior." - KJR"We prefer to keep death out of sight and any reminders of the decay in our bodies or being less than dazzling, we want to hide and pretend it doesn't exist but the good news is that's not the way of Jesus." -KJR"If you're in a church where they say 'This table is for all,' but you're not actually included, leave. You don't need to stay in a community that crushes you...You are not faithless if you need to walk away." - KJR"To deconstruct the 2x4s of a house that was never actually God's house is a gift that you give to your future self." -KJR Follow KJ Ramsey & Get her Book K.J. Ramsey (BA, Covenant College, MA, Denver Seminary) is a licensed professional counselor, writer, and recovering idealist who believes sorrow and joy coexist. She is the author of This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering Lingers, and her writing has been published in Christianity Today, RELEVANT, The Huffington Post, Fathom Magazine, Health Central, and more on the integration of theology, psychology, and spiritual formation. She and her husband live in Denver, Colorado. At her website: http://www.kjramsey.comInstagram: @kjramseywritesTwitter: @kjramseywritesFacebook: @kjramseywritesGet her book, This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering Lingers OTHER LINKS You can also watch and share the video version on Youtube. Today's Sponsor Untangle Workbook: A guided journaling process for untangling emotions and finding wisdom - If you're like me, you might not have really been equipped to face difficult feelings. Distraction and denial were my favorite emotional tools. Projects. Video Games. TV. Social Media. More Work. Anything to not feel the discomfort. Learning how to sit with my feelings and understand what they really meant has been life changing. I wanted to share that with people I work with, so I wrote this little journal. The first 30 pages teach you the basics of how emotions work in our bodies and our brains, and how make meaning out of all of that. Then you learn a step-by-step template that guides you through processing an emotional reaction. Find My Stuff Get The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer and Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World - This little book is free for you by opting in to my email list.The Wisdom of Your Heart: Discovering the God-given Purpose and Power of Your Emotions.Untangled Heart Course Online. Discovering your Authentic Core Values: A Step-by-step Guide Subscribe to my Email List. You'll get a free copy of a little book called The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer & Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World.Subscribe to The Apprenticeship Way on iTunes and all other podcasting apps.Find a video version on my Youtube Channel.

You can’t turn on the news without seeing injustice. You can't scroll social media without hearing about injustice. How do women of mission respond to injustice? What do we do? How do we use what we’ve got for the good of others and the glory of God, all the while knowing that we are placed exactly where we’re supposed to be so that we can respond to injustice right now? In this conversation with Jess and Kennesha, we’re defining what justice is and what justice is not. We’re looking to the justifier - Jesus - to teach us how to love people best. And we’re talking action steps for going forward, because we know that what has limited you in the past does not have to limit you now. You can have God’s capacity to love the things He loves. Let it be in us, God. LIsten in on this conversation (this is only the beginning for us!), and know this: we’re on your team. We’re with you. We’re curious, we’re hopeful, we’re ready, we’re lamenting, and we’re prayerful. You have a friend, and we are with you. We quote three of our friends in this episode, and we want to make sure you follow these incredible women! Give our friend KJ Ramsey a follow. She's an incredible writer, and we're so grateful for her voice. Bernice King is a powerhouse, and she's giving us the words we need to hear. Her words in the injustice conversation have encouraged and equipped us. And we also talk about Osheta Moore's peacemaker vs. peacekeeper idea. She's another amazing friend of ours - give her a follow to glean from her wisdom. Some of our top book recommendations on injustice: Reading While Black by Esau McCaulley The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein How to Fight Racism by Jemar Tisby Unsettling Truths by Mark Charles and Soong-Chun Rah Reparations by Duke L. Kwon Be the Bridge by Latasha Morrison

“Spiritually abusive churches don’t set out to be abusive. They set out to be amazing." - KJ Ramsey "

On this Best-Of Mornings with Carmen, Carmen talked with KJ Ramsey about her book "This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering Lingers" and with Rod Dreher about his latest book "Live Not By Lies:  A Manual for Christian Dissidents."

On this Best-Of Mornings with Carmen, Carmen talked with KJ Ramsey about her book "This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering Lingers" and with Rod Dreher about his latest book "Live Not By Lies:  A Manual for Christian Dissidents."

When prayers for healing haven't been answered, the fog of depression isn't lifting, when marriages end in divorce, or grief won't go away, it's easy to feel you've failed God or, worse, He's failed you. Many of us have asked If God loves us, why does He allow us to hurt? We often hear this too shall pass, but what if it doesn't? KJ Ramsey author of This Too Shall Last is on the show today sharing about the pain God hasn't taken away and how we can encounter grace in the middle, where living with suffering that lingers can mean receiving God's presence that lasts.

K.J. Ramsey (BA, Covenant College, MA, Denver Seminary) is a licensed professional counselor, writer, and recovering idealist who believes sorrow and joy coexist. She is the author of This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering Lingers, and her writing has been published in Christianity Today, RELEVANT, The Huffington Post, Fathom Magazine, Health Central, and more on the integration of theology, psychology, and spiritual formation. She and her husband live in Denver, Colorado. Follow K.J.'s writing at kjramsey.com and across social media at @kjramseywrites. Inside today's podcast, I have with me author and therapist KJ Ramsey. I have seen her book pop up in my feed a few times and it always catches my eye. I haven't had the pleasure of reading it yet, but it's on my list. I've been intrigued by the concept of suffering with Christ for years now and I'm always blessed when God reveals new insights to me. KJ, I am thrilled to have you talk with us today about finding a way to dwell in joy despite times of suffering. KJ's recommended Authors and Books: Kathleen Norris, Acedia & Me Eugene Peterson Other Resources: You Don't Have To Be Perfect by Vanessa Luu Truth and Tools Workbook and support group. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/vanessa-luu/support

Writer and therapist K.J. Ramsey explores how we can trust others and the church with our stories of suffering as she offers wisdom from her own difficult path toward healing. K.J. shares how God's grace has become embodied and relational in her life through physical pain and transformative communion with fellow believers in Christ. Note: This conversation with KJ Ramsey was originally released as Episode 26 and was Part 1 of a three-part series in which we explored various theological approaches to suffering and happiness. ...

It is so important to name things what they are. Very often we are slow to call spiritual abuse by its' name. Join Josh and his guest KJ Ramsey for a discussion on how to recognize spiritual abuse and for some examples of things that you may not think of as abuse that are. K.J. Ramsey (BA, Covenant College, MA, Denver Seminary) is a licensed professional counselor, writer, and recovering idealist who believes sorrow and joy coexist. She is the author of This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering Lingers, and her writing has been published in Christianity Today, RELEVANT, The Huffington Post, Fathom Magazine, Health Central, and more on the integration of theology, psychology, and spiritual formation. She and her husband live in Denver, Colorado. Follow K.J.'s writing at kjramsey.com and across social media at @kjramseywrites. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/churchhurts/support

PluggedIn's Adam Holz offers reviews of "Greyhound" and "4 Kids & It," as well looking at look at what values entertainer Kanye West's presidential run offers.  KJ Ramsey, author of "This Too Shall Last," talks about finding God's love and grace when pain and suffering won't abate.

PluggedIn's Adam Holz offers reviews of "Greyhound" and "4 Kids & It," as well looking at look at what values entertainer Kanye West's presidential run offers.  KJ Ramsey, author of "This Too Shall Last," talks about finding God's love and grace when pain and suffering won't abate.

Today's conversation is a very honest and realistic discussion of how transformation actually happens within our suffering. Our guest, KJ Ramsey, brings insight from a decade plus of dealing with AS (ankylosing spondylitis) and the limitations and suffering that come with a long-term chronic illness. Through that insight, she gives us a fresh approach to wisely encountering any type of suffering in our lives.KJ Ramsey is a therapist, writer, and recovering idealist who believes sorrow and joy are necessary friends. Her writings has appeared in Christianity Today, RELEVANT, The Huffington Post, Health Central, Fathom Magazine, The Mighty, and Introvert, Dear. You can find out more about KJ on her websiteHer book This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering Lingers released last week and is available now.Music by Robert EbbensArt by Eric Wright/Metamora Design

Carmen looks at headlines, including the announcement that President Trump will be the first sitting president to speak at the national March for Life march.  KJ Ramsey talks about trusting God when a sought for miracle doesn't happen.

Carmen looks at headlines, including the announcement that President Trump will be the first sitting president to speak at the national March for Life march.  KJ Ramsey talks about trusting God when a sought for miracle doesn't happen.

Therapist and writer KJ Ramsey talks about how both scripture and neuroscience agree on the importance of lamenting in community over losses in  life.  Mark Batterson of National Community Church in Washington DC reflects on double blessings, including in the story behind Handel's Messiah.

Therapist and writer KJ Ramsey talks about how both scripture and neuroscience agree on the importance of lamenting in community over losses in  life.  Mark Batterson of National Community Church in Washington DC reflects on double blessings, including in the story behind Handel's Messiah.

How can we cultivate courage when fear overshadows our lives? How do we hear the Voice of Love when hate and harm shout loud?Through sharing her own wilderness experience of spiritual abuse and religious trauma, therapist and author K.J. Ramsey helps us explore the landscape of fear, trauma, and faith by walking through Psalm 23 phrase by phrase in her new book The Lord is My Courage: Stepping Through the Shadows of Fear Toward the Voice of Love. K.J. helps us see that courage is not the absence of anxiety but the practice of trusting we will be held and loved no matter what.K.J. Ramsey is a trauma-informed licensed professional counselor and author whose work offers space to see every part of our souls and stories as sacred. She holds degrees from Covenant College and Denver Seminary, and writes at the intersection of theology, psychology, and spiritual formation to guide us in recovering the rhythm of resilience through nervous system regulation and the wonder of communion with God. She and her husband Ryan, along with their two exceptionally cuddly dogs, Merton and Resa, live near Denver, Colorado.You can connect with K.J. on her website, and on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.Show notes/linksLeave us a message or ask a question about this or any other episode and we'll answer it on a future episode.Join our online community for free!From our sponsor (that's us!)Check out the Gravity Commons, a place to connect and learn with others in the Gravity community.Check out Gravity Leadership Academy, our 12-month training intensive for Christian leaders who want to bring lasting transformation to their culture.Are you interested in advertising on the Gravity Leadership Podcast? Contact Gino Curcuruto at gino@gravityleadership.com.Connect with Gravity LeadershipJoin our online community (FREE) to get a curated list of interesting and edifying articles each week, plus free resources for leading like Jesus, living on mission, and making disciples. Head to https://gravityleadership.com/join to join us.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy