Podcasts about Walston

This week Pete, Trey, and Ben are joined by The National Professional Fishing Leagues Master of Ceremonies, and co-owner Big Al!  Al joins us to talk about his journey in fishing from the Big Bass Bash to The League.  Al shares how he got started, grew his love for fishing, and about the travel involved in being the MC and helping to ensure the league runs as smooth as possible.   He also shares some insight into what it is like to be a small business owner, owning a Tournament Organization and everything it takes to make it run! Support those who help to make this possible!   Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week on The OneCast Pete and Trey are in studio and joined by Captain Dana with Reel2Reel fishing and Podcast.  Dana talks about the challenges of starting to guide, the ongoing drama with the Department of Marine Fisheries, mismanaged resources, and how anglers are their own worst enemies.   Dana talks about the downfall of fishing with social media and how you can be a light in the darkness.  Captain Dana the #averagetroutguy Check out Captain Dana on all socials: Captain Dana on Instagram Captain Dana on Facebook Reel2Reel Podcast on Spotify Support those who help to make this possible!   Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week Pete, Trey and Ben are joined by The National Professional Fishing League pro Seth Ellis.  Seth joins us to talk about his 5th place finish in the NPFL Stop 2 on Lake Norman.   Seth shares some secrets to reading bed fish, the baits he caught them on, and his mentality going into it.  Also joining us in studio is Goat Wood Farms owner Chad Erickson to give his perspective on being a title sponsor and the value gained from sponsoring an angler.  Support those who help to make this possible!   Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week on The OneCast Ben interviews Pete and Trey who break down their experience at the Fishers of Men National Championship!  The guys also discuss the recent Elite Series Event on the Albemarle Sound and Kyle Welchers huge victory! Support those who help to make this possible!   Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week on The OneCast Pete, Ben, and Trey recap the 2025 Bassmaster Classic! Congratulation to Easton Fothergill on becoming a Bassmaster Classic Champion! Support those who help to make this possible!   Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week on The OneCast we are joined to wrap up our conversation with NPFL Pro Dylan Freeze.  Dylan talks about why the NPFL, his struggles, and his small victories in his return to fishing.  Dylan talks about going from leaving fishing with no such thing as live scope or forward-facing sonar to returning to the sport in the peak of its use.   We also talk about our opinions on some of the hot topics of bass fishing today! Follow Dylan on Social Media Dylan on Instagram Dylan on Facebook Support those who help to make this possible!   Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week on The OneCast Pete, Trey, and Ben are joined by Dylan Freeze who is in his second season with The National Professional Fishing League.  Dylan joins us to talk about how he got into bass fishing in Ohio, nearly qualified for the Elite Series, and then quit fishing for nearly a decade.  Dylan talks about personal struggles during this period with legal trouble, alcohol, and relationships.  Then a return to fishing turned it all around! This is a great conversation that so many can relate to.  Let us know your thoughts and join us next week for Part 2 with Dylan Freeze! Follow Dylan on Social Media Dylan on Instagram Dylan on Facebook Support those who help to make this possible!   Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week on The OneCast we record a live episode answering your questions about Fishing.  We talk about throwing a kegger at Jeffs house, the FOM National Chamionship, and some of our favorite pre-spawn baits.  There also may be some bed fishing tips! Support those who help to make this possible!   Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week on The OneCast we talk about the recent drama in tournament BASS fishing, the rulings, and our opinions on the incidents.  We also talk about what we think organizations can do better to help curb some of the public backlash.  Support those who help to make this possible!   Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

Blake Walston discusses pitching in meaningful games for the Arizona Diamondbacks last year, leaning on the veteran pitchers on the team and what he is working on in spring training.

This week on The OneCast the guys break down the 2025 National Professional Fishing League season.  With 6 stops around the country starting in South Carolina on the Giant Factory that is Santee Cooper. Pete, Ben, and Trey give their predictions on the winners of all 6 stops, AOY, and how they think each lake will set up! Support those who help to make this possible!   Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week on The OneCast Pete, Trey, and Ben break down the 2025 Elite Series.  We give our prediction on the winners of each event, AOY, and ROY!  We talk about a schedule that sets up differently from recent years including visiting some Florida fisheries later in the year than normal.  What are your predictions for the 2025 BASSmaster Elite Series? Support those who help to make this possible!   Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week on The OneCast we are joined by NPFL pro Josh Hooks.  Josh talks about his success in central North Carolina, spills some juice, and goes into his journey into The National Professional Fishing League.  Josh also talks about the rumors and accusation that come along with local success, and the joy in showing his abilities as an angler around the country.  Support those who help to make this possible!   Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week on The OneCast Pete, Trey, and Ben are joined by Dylan and Stephen from Hobie Eyewear.  Hobie Eyewear has created an innovative and environmentally responsible frame with the Hull Float, which has a frame made of 100% upcycled kayak plastic.  Not only are the frames made of upcycled plastic but the hard case is also made of the same material.  Each purchase also supports the Fish America Foundation to keep our nations waters clean and full of life for us to enjoy! Grab yours today at the link below! Support those who help to make this possible!   Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week on The OneCast Pete, Trey, and Ben breakdown the 2025 MLF BPT!  We talk through some rule changes, the schedule, and give our tournament predictions! What are your predictions for the 2025 BPT season? Support those who help to make this possible!   Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week on The OneCast NPFL Pro Josh Watkins wife Cheryl Watkins talks about being the spouse not only of a professional angler but also of a career soldier in the US Army who fishes for the US Army Outdoor Team.  Cheryl talks about the ups and downs on the angler and how it impacts not only Josh but family while Josh stays on mission, fishes, and transitions from his time in service of 20 years.   Cheryl talks about living room marriage proposals, balancing time doing what she loves, and how she stepped up to help the Army Outdoor team and their mission.  Support those who help to make this possible!   Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

Kristina Ellis wife of NPFL Pro Seth Ellis joins The OneCast.  Kristina joins us to talk about what it is like to be the wife of a touring professional angler.  She goes into the struggles of sponsorships, her husband not updating weigh tracker live, home life while he is away, and the unique challenges she faces as a wife of a Professional Angler.  She also shares what she would pick for Seths walkout song, what name she thinks fits him, and shares her thoughts on the D-Team. Support those who help to make this possible!   Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

This week on The OneCast Pete and Trey talk about the Post Christmas funk, winter fishing, and what our favorite Christmas gifts received and given were! Support those who help to make this possible!   Terry Carpenter Licensed NC Realtor at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston.! Terry is available for all your central NC Real Estate, if you are in the market for a home in the Raleigh Area reach out to Terry at carpentert@hpw.com! Deep Dive App!  Download the Deep Dive App today from your phones app store to get the inside track on where to fish, what to throw, weather, wind, water clarity, and so much more!  Deep Dive App helps you catch more fish! Carolina Waters!  Check out Carolina Waters for all your performance fishing gear, casual t shirts, and headwear.  Use the code TheOneCast and Save 20% off your order. Hobie Eyewear! If you are looking for highly affordable and high quality polarized glasses to keep you safe on the water look no further than Hobie Eyewear!  Use the link to save 15% off your order! OneCast Fishing! Head over to  OneCast Fishing and use the code TheOneCast at checkout to save 10%!  Join the snagless revolution, catch more fish and lose less tackle! Join the conversation and our community where we work to build the culture of anglers helping anglers OneCast at a time head to The OneCast Community on Facebook Head over and follow us on Instagram for behind-the-scenes videos, studio tours, and sneak peaks of what's coming!  The OneCast on Instagram Help us to continue to grow a culture of Anglers helping Anglers OneCast at a time! If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health and is thinking about harming themselves, reach out  (912)270-3726 (800)273-8255 Support these great organizations who are helping those who help keep us safe and free to talk about fishing! Special Operations Bass Anglers Take a Warrior Fishing Inc. FX3 Inc Heroes' Harvest For His Glory Outdoors Hosts Social Media Pete on Instagram Trey on Instagram  

Trigger Warning: Proceed only if you are comfortable with potentially sensitive topics.This is not psychological advice, service, or prescriptive treatment for anxiety or depression. The content related to descriptions of depression, anxiety, or despair may be upsetting or triggering, but are clearly not exhaustive. If you should feel symptoms of depression and/or anxiety, please seek professional mental health services, or contact (in Kitsap County) Kitsap Mobile Crisis Team at  1-888-910-0416. The line is staffed by professionals who are trained to determine the level of crisis services needed. Depending on the need, this may include dispatching the KMHS Mobile Crisis Outreach Team for emergency assessment. In the Words and Voice of Rebecca W. Walston:Anticipatory intelligence  is a phrase that I heard at a seminar talking about racial trauma. The speaker whose name I can't remember, was talking about this idea of a kind of intelligence that is often developed by marginalized people. And because this was a seminar on racial trauma in the United States, her examples were all primarily around racialized experiences as the United States understand that sense of racialized society. And so the idea of anticipatory intelligence is the amount of effort or energy that we put in emotionally, mentally, psychologically, to anticipating how our bodies and the stories that they represent will be received in a space that we are in before we get there.Speaker 1 (00:18):Welcome to the Arise podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, and spirituality. In this episode, I get to interview my dear friend, Rebecca Wheeler Walston, and we are talking about anticipatory intelligence. I think all of us, or at least most of the people I speak with lately when I'm like, how are you doing? They're like, and they're like, well, that's a complicated answer. And it definitely is. There's an underlying sense of unease, of discontent, of just a lack of surety, about what is going to come next in the new year that I think I haven't felt for a long time. The collective sense that I have right now as you listen to this episode and take a sneak peek into some of the conversations Rebecca and I have had for a while, I encourage you to be kind to your body Again. I've put in previous episodes, resources, get out, get mental health care, spend time with friends, play, go play pickleball, get out in the snow, read a good book, text a friend, call a friend.(01:37):Do the things that connect you back to life giving activities. Find your spiritual practices, light candles, take a bath. All these things that therapists often say are helpful. I mean, maybe it's you go hug a tree or put your feet, your literal bare feet in the dirt. I don't know what it is for you, but leaning on the people and the resources in your area and also leaning on things that connect you back to groundedness, to feeling in your body. And so those are the things that I do. I enjoy lately eating Honey Nut Cheerios. Sounds weird. I love Dry Honey Nut Cheerios. I don't know why, but I let myself indulge in that. So again, I'm not prescribing anything to anyone. This is not a prescription, a diagnosis, a treatment plan. It is saying, how can you find ways to ground yourself in really good healthy ways that you can actually care for your good body?(02:50):I don't enjoy talking about anxiety. I don't love it. In fact, talking about it sometimes I feel really anxious in the moment my heart starts pounding, I get sweaty hands, et cetera. And yet there is something grounding for me about stepping into shared realities with my friends or neighbor, colleague or family. And so this is a reality that Rebecca and I have been talking about. What is anticipatory intelligence? And I'm going to let her jump in and start it off here. Hey, Rebecca, I know you and I chat a lot, and part of our talks are like, Hey, how you doing? Hey, how am I doing? And a while back when I reached out to you and said, Hey, let's do this thing way before the election on anxiety and race. And you're like, wait a minute. I want to talk about this thing called anticipatory intelligence. And so I want to hear about that from you. What is that?Speaker 2 (03:51):Hey, Danielle, as always, Hey, hey,(03:56):Post 2024 election, I'm going to just take a huge breath and say that I've had this low grade sort of nausea in my gut for at least a week, if not longer. So yeah, let's talk. So anticipatory intelligence is a phrase that I heard at a seminar talking about racial trauma. The speaker whose name I can't remember, was talking about this idea of a kind of intelligence that is often developed by marginalized people. And because this was a seminar on racial trauma in the United States, her examples were all primarily around racialized experiences as the United States understand that sense of racialized society. And so the idea of anticipatory intelligence is the amount of effort or energy that we put in emotionally, mentally, psychologically, to anticipating how our bodies and the stories that they represent will be received in a space that we are in before we get there.(05:23):So it's that notion of I'm a black woman, I'm getting ready to go to a function that I anticipate will likely be predominantly white. And the kind of internal conversation I have with myself about what that's going to feel like look like to enter the question in my mind of how safe or how dangerous might the environment be to me racially? So the first piece of anticipatory intelligence is that sort of internal conversation that we may be having with ourselves as we step into a circumstance. The second piece of that is when we arrive in the space and we start to read the room,(06:12):Read the faces of the people in the room, and this work of how close was my hypothesis or my theory about my reception in the room to what I'm actually seeing and feeling and hearing in the room as I enter the space is that sort of second piece of anticipatory intelligence. And then the third piece of it is really this question of how do I navigate that answers to those first two questions? And so what is my body, my brain, my emotions, my spirit, my gut, all of it doing with what I'm reading of the faces in the room and the reaction to me being there could be a positive space. I could get there and realize that the people in the room are all receptive to my presence and what I'm reading and feeling is a sense of welcome and warmth and an invitation for all of me to be in the room. And then what does that feel like in terms of the letdown of anxiety and the ability to absorb that sense of welcome and to participate in that sense of welcome? Or it could be a hostile environment. And what I'm reading is something that isn't welcome,(07:44):Something that feels like fill in the blank, resentment, who knows?(07:53):And then what does my body do with that? What does my gut do with that? What does my emotions, what does my spirit do? And how do I react and respond to what I'm actually reading in the room? So you can hear that sense of three steps, and sometimes that can happen over a matter of days, weeks as we build up to something. Sometimes that can happen in a matter of seconds as we enter a room, but the amount of effort and energy that is expended and the idea that you can actually develop a very well thought through grid for this as a kind of intelligence that can be yours individually might belong to your group. Collectively idea of how we anticipate and then how we engage a space based on and in this race, it could be extended to gender,Speaker 3 (08:58):ReligionSpeaker 2 (09:00):In this day and age, probably politics and any other places where we find intersectionality of the pieces of our identity.Speaker 1 (09:11):I had to take a deep breath because it is this giant reframing and pathologizing of what a lot of us walk around with, which is an internal disruption as we move from space to space.Speaker 2 (09:29):Yeah, I think that's true. And I mean, I think about it as a black woman, as a black mother raising two kids, I have taught my kids this notion of, I didn't call it that there's too many syllables and SAT words, but I have taught my kids a sense of pay attention to people and places and sounds and vibes and nonverbal communication and verbal communication and learn to interpret and decipher and then do what is necessary to keep yourself safe and do what is necessary to enjoy and participate in places where you're actually welcome.Speaker 1 (10:17):When that intersects with the concepts of Western psychology, let's say, where we're as a part of that system, there's this constant move to how do we heal anxiety, how do we work towards calm? How do we work towards finding a quote safe space? And I think it's becoming more and more evident in our current society. It's evident to many before, but I think some people are jostled into the reality that there might not be that safe space or you might have to understand anxiety differently than the western psychological framework. Have you thought about that?Speaker 2 (11:04):Yeah. I mean, couple of things, right? Is that in western sort of psychological space, the phrase that's usually engaged is something called hypervigilant. This idea that the time you spend reading a room and your sense of threat and the need to be vigilant about your own safety, the concept of hypervigilance is to say that you're overreactingSpeaker 3 (11:36):ToSpeaker 2 (11:37):The space and you have a kind of vigilance that is unnecessary. You have a kind of vigilance that is a trigger to some threat that doesn't actually exist. And therefore you as the person who is doing this anticipatory work, needs to rea acclimate to the room and engage the room as if you are safe and to reimagine or recalibrate your sense of threat to an idea that it doesn't exist and it's not there. And one of the things that I would pose is that's a false reality for marginalized people in the United States. The sense of a lack of safety is present and it's real. And therefore, could we be talking about a necessary kind of vigilance as opposed to an over reactive hypervigilance?(12:45):So that's kind of one way that I think is a necessary exploration, and it requires the country to wrestle with the truth and the why and how of the lack of safety for marginalized people, whether that is on racial lines or gender lines or whatever power structure we are engaging. There's always the question of those in power and those who are not. And if in that moment you are in the category of the disempowered and the disenfranchised, then a sense of your own vigilance might actually be the wisest, kindest thing you can do. And the error of modern psychology to pathologize that is the problem. The other thing that I think about because you use the word safety, and I did too often, and of the growing belief that the idea that I can be safe in an absolute sense is probably a misnomer at best, an illusion at worst. And so there can there be this sense of safer environments or safe ish environments or even the suggestion that I've heard in recent years of a sense of bravery instead of safety, the ability for the space, the room to hold, the idea that if there's a power differential, there's going to be a safety differential.(14:31):And so the question is not am I safe? The question is the level of courage or bravery that I may need to access in order to step into a room and note that there is a certain amount of of safety.Speaker 1 (14:50):And I think that can be played out on all levels. I mean, I attended a training on immigrant rights and one of the things they mentioned is that ICE has the ability, the immigration service has the ability to use a digital format on online form to write their own warrant. Now, we know that regular police cannot write their own warrant.(15:16):We know that ice can also obtain a warrant through the courts, but when you have an empowered police body to write their own warrant, even if you're not in an immigrant, what is a sense that you're going to actually be safe or you're going to walk into a room where there are those power differentials no matter what your race or ethnicity is. If you are not of the dominant class, what's the sense that you're going to feel safe in that power differential? I think as I hear you say, I don't want to go to the extreme that it's an illusion, but I do agree that each step out is a step of bravery. And some days we may have the bravery and the data points that say, despite this anticipation of potential harm, I'm going to be able to work through that today and I'm going to be with people who can work through that with me, even through the power differential. And I think in the coming days, and there's going to be times when we say I can't step into that space because of what I anticipate, not because I'm a coward, but because it may lead to more harm than I can metabolize.Speaker 2 (16:27):Yeah, I mean the word safe has its problem. So does the word brave, right? Because again, the weight of that word is on the marginalized person in many ways to push path, the power differential and show up anyway. And there's something about that weight and the imbalance of it that feels wildly unfair, but historically true.(17:00):And so what I love about your sense of there might be some days I do not have it in me, and then can we come to that moment with the reverence and the kindness and the sanctity that deserves for me and my individual capacity to say I don't have it today? And I say that knowing that most of us come from, I come from a cultural backdrop, a collective story around blackness and the black bravery and black courage and black power and black rights. That doesn't always give me space to say I don't have it in me. I don't have that bravery today. I don't have access to it. I come from a cultural narrative that screams we shall overcome in a thousand different ways. And so you can hear in that both a hope and then a demand that you find the capacity in every moment to overcome. And we don't have a lot of stories where you get to say, I don't have it. And I have some curiosity for you as a Latino woman, do you have those stories, those cultural narratives that give you permission to say, I don't have access to the kind of bravery that I need for today?Speaker 1 (18:40):That's a really good question. As you were speaking, I was thinking of the complexity of the constructed racial identity for Latinos, which is often a combination as you know, we've talked about it, a lot of indigenous African and then European ancestry. And so I often think of us coming into those spaces as negotiators. How do we make this okay for dominant culture folks? Can we get close enough to power to make it okay? Which is a costly selling out of one part of ourselves. And I think the narrative is like when you hear nationally, why do Latinos vote this way even though the electoral percentage is so low compared to dominant culture folks? So I think the question we have to wrestle with is what part of our identity are we going to push aside to fit in those spaces? Or sometimes the role of negotiator and access to privilege can lead to healing and good things.(19:53):And also there are spaces where we step into where that's not even on the table. It's going to be an option. And so can we step back and not have to be that designated person and say, actually, I can't do any negotiations. I don't have the power to do that. It's kind of a false invitation. It's this false sense of you can kind of belong if you do this, but you can't really belong. I want you to vote for me, but then in 30 days, 60 days, I'm going to deport you at risk to be arrested. So you have to vote against your own best interest in order to be accepted, but after being accepted, you're also rejected. So I think there's a sense for me as I ramble through it, I don't know where that permission comes from to step back, but I think we do need to take a long hard look and step backSpeaker 2 (20:57):Just listening to you. I have a sense that the invitation to your community is a little different than the invitation that has been extended to my community. And of course the extension of that invitation coming from the power structures of the western world of America, of whiteness. I hear you saying that if I'm mishearing you, let's chat. But what I hear is the sense of this notion that you can negotiate for acceptance, which I think is an invitation that has been extended to a lot of ethnic groups in the United States that do not include black people. Our history in the United States is the notion of one drop of black blood lands you in this category for which there will never be access. And I say that also knowing that part of the excitement of a candidacy of someone like Kamala Harris is the notion that somehow we have negotiated something or the possibility that we actually have negotiated a kind of acceptance that is beyond imagination. And in the days following the election, some of the conversation of literally she did everything that she has, all the degrees, she has the resume, she has this, she has that, and it wasn't enough to negotiate the deal(22:53):And the kind of betrayal. And so I started this by saying, oh no, y'all over there in Latinx spaces get to negotiate something we as black people. But I think that there's a true narrative in post civil rights post brown versus board of education that the negotiation that we are in as black people is if we get the degrees and we build the pedigree, we can earn the negotiated seat. And I think other ethnic spaces, and you tell me if this feels true to you, the negotiation has been about bloodline.Speaker 1 (23:50):Yeah, absolutely. And adjacent to that negotiated space is the idea that you wouldn't have to anticipate so much that you could walk in and feel safe or that no matter where you think about any of the presidential spaces, that Kamala Harris could walk in and she could be acceptedSpeaker 2 (24:15):And that she would bring all the rest of us with her. Yeah.Speaker 1 (24:29):I wanted to believe that this election was based on issues. And I wanted to believe that no matter where you stood on certain things that you could see through that Trump was going to be a deadly disaster for bodies of color. And yet that's not what happened.Speaker 2 (24:55):Yeah, I think, right. And my first pushback is like, he's a problem. He's a disaster not just for bodies of color. And I think there was some segment of the country making the argument that he is a detriment to a kind of ideal that affects us all regardless of race or creed or color or gender. And I am still trying to make meaning of what it means that that's not the choice we made as a country. I'm still trying to, in my head, logically balance how you could vote against your own interests. And I was watching a documentary this weekend, the US and the Holocaust, and one of the things that is true in that documentary is the fact that there has always been a strain of American life that voted against its own interest. That notion is not new. And if I try to think about that in psychological terms, I mean, how often have you seen that as a therapist, a client who makes decisions that are clearly against their own interest? And the therapeutic work is to get to a place where that is less and less true,Speaker 1 (26:38):Which I mean, I know we'll record a part two, I think of the collective meaning we are making out of this, that the sense that in the voting against our own self-interest, I can speak from my cultural background, you may say goodbye to your grandma or your brother. You may say goodbye to the friend down the street that runs a restaurant. And what does that do to your psyche? It's nothing new. We've been asked to do that for centuries. This is not new. This was introduced when colonial powers first arrived and we're asking for loyalty in exchange for some kind of a false hope of true safety. And yet when we experience this anxiety or this anticipatory intelligence, I think our bodies aren't just speaking from what's happening today, but the centuries of this was never, okay.Speaker 2 (27:48):See, again, I'm hit with that sentence reads different to me when I hear you as a Latino woman say, that's not a new negotiation for us. We've been asked to vote against our own interest from colonial days. And what does that cost you? I want to cry for that story of an immigration that sounded like it was voluntary and never actually was. And I say that feeling in my own experience, the trajectory of enslaved Africans were asked to negotiate something very different than that. What is the cost? It'll be a different kind of cost. There is a section of the black community that voted against our own interest in this election, and what does that mean and what's the story that we're telling ourselves around it in order to justify a choice? The consequences of which I think have yet to be made clear for any of us. I know that there's this anticipated, we can say the word mass deportation and think that we can anticipate the cost of that. And just from the few conversations you and I have had over the last week, I don't think any of our anticipatory work will be anywhere close to the actual cop.Speaker 1 (30:11):I think you're right. I think we will do our best based on what we've lived and tried to do for one another and for our own families to anticipate what we need, but we won't escape.Speaker 2 (30:38):I think the other thing that I think about is the cost is not just to Latinx people. There is a cost to all of us that are in proximity to you that is different and arguably far less. But I think we're missing that too. I think we're underestimating and miscalculating. There's a science fiction book that was written, I read it in college by the author's name is a guy named Derek Bell. He's a lawyer, and he wrote a book called Faces at the Bottom of the Well. And there's a chapter in the book's, a collection of short stories. There's a short story about the day all the Negroes disappeared. And the story is about this alien population from another planet who is disenchanted with the treatment of enslaved Africans. So they come to earth and they take everybody black. And the story is about what is no longer true of the planet because Africans are no longer enslaved. Africans in the US are no longer in it, on it. And all the things that are no longer true of American life, the things that will never become true of American life because of the absence of a people group. And I think that, again, we can say the phrase mass deportation and think we have some sense of what the cost of that might be. And I think we are grossly underestimating and miscalculating all the things that will not be true of American life.Speaker 1 (32:33):Yeah, I think I don't have words. I don't have a lot of explanations or what our kids will, what they're learning about life. I know we have to pause. Okay. Okay.Speaker 2 (33:09):Part two, to comeSpeaker 1 (33:10):Our cucumber. I'll catch you later. As you can see, we ended this podcast on a difficult note, and it's not a space that Rebecca and I are going to be able to resolve, and we are going to continue talking about it. So tune in to our next episode in part two. And I really think there's a lot of encouragement to be found in setting a frame and setting space for reality and what we are facing in our bodies and understanding ourselves and understanding as collectives, how this might be impacting us differently. Rebecca and I aren't speaking for everybody in our communities. They're not monoliths. We are speaking from our particular locations. Again, thank you for tuning in and I encourage you to download, share, subscribe, and share with others that that might be researching or thinking about this topic. Talk to you later. Bye.  Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

Matthias Roberts is a queer  psychotherapist (in Washington State) and the author of both "Holy Runaways:Rediscovering Faith After Being Burned by Religion" and "Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms". He is one of my favorite friends I met in graduate school, a human deeply committed to connection and curiosity,  and someone who I deeply admire. With Matthias, I feel a sense of belonging and openness to understanding the world and holding space for that curiosity which is so threatening elsewhere. Rebecca W. Walston is an African American lawyer, who also holds a MA Counseling, an all around boss babe. Rebecca runs a Law Practice and serves as General Legal Counsel for The Impact Movement, Inc.  She is someone who fiercely advocates for others freedom and healing. She is a dear friend and colleague, who anyone would be lucky to spend a dinner with talking about almost anything.Trigger Warning: Proceed only if you are comfortable with potentially sensitive topics.This is not psychological advice, service, or prescriptive treatment for anxiety or depression. The content related to descriptions of depression, anxiety, or despair may be upsetting or triggering, but are clearly not exhaustive. If you should feel symptoms of depression and/or anxiety, please seek professional mental health services, or contact (in Kitsap County) Kitsap Mobile Crisis Team at  1-888-910-0416. The line is staffed by professionals who are trained to determine the level of crisis services needed. Depending on the need, this may include dispatching the KMHS Mobile Crisis Outreach Team for emergency assessment. Speaker 1 (00:18):Welcome to the Rise podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, and spirituality. Today we're continuing our conversation on election humanity and politics. I have two guests today. I'm very excited about it. Matthias Roberts, who's a queer psychotherapist in Washington State, and the author of both Holy Runaways and Beyond Shame. Actually, he's one of my favorite friends I met in graduate school. I don't know if he knows that he's a human, deeply committed to connection and curiosity and someone I deeply admire with Matthias. I've always felt this sense of belonging and openness to understanding the world and holding space for that actual curiosity, which has seems so threatening elsewhere. So I want to thank Matthias for joining me and taking time out of his morning. And Rebecca Wheeler Walstead holds an MA in counseling an all around boss babe. Rebecca runs a law practice and serves as general legal counsel for the Impact movement, and she is someone who fiercely advocates for others freedom and healing. She's a dear friend, obviously she's a colleague and she's someone that anybody would be lucky to spend a dinner with talking about almost anything. So thank you, Rebecca, for joining me today.(01:40):I can say that for myself in my own experience, my anxiety is heightened overall and feelings that I can keep at bay with regular normal coping mechanisms such as exercise. It takes to me a little bit more and I have to offer myself a lot more grace in the process. I encourage you no matter where you are, to engage these topics with grace towards your own self, towards your neighbor, towards your family, and towards whoever's in your proximity. We won't get things done overnight no matter who we are, and we will get them done if we become more aligned and care more for those in our proximity, that means our neighbor. So if you're feeling or experiencing anxiety around the election or family or other triggers, I want you to encourage you to seek out and find someone to speak with. Maybe you need a mental health professional, maybe you need a spiritual advisor. Maybe it's your coach and it's something related to business. Maybe you need to go see your doctor for aches and pains you've been having. I don't know what it might be for you, but don't hesitate to reach out and get the help you need. We're going to jump into the conversation and voices from across the country. We are all different and we're not meant to be the same. I hope you find pieces of you in each of their stories. Hey, Rebecca. Hey, Matthias. Thanks for being with me today.Speaker 2 (03:06):Daniel, thanks for havingSpeaker 1 (03:07):Us. I just thought we would talk about this really amazing subject of politics and humanness because we're so good at it in the United States. Yeah, right. Y'all thoughts on that? Even as I say that, just politics and being human, what comes to mind?Speaker 2 (03:34):For me, there's almost a dual process happening. I think about my first thought was, well, politics are, but then I also thought about how when we separate institutions out from people, especially in the way that corporations tend to separate out how they become anti-human so quickly, and not that politics is necessarily a corporation, but I think there's a form of it. There's something corporate about it. And so I think about that juxtaposition and maybe the dichotomy there between, yeah, it's human, but I think it's also anti-human in the ways that it has to, I think almost by definition, separate from maybe these places of deep feeling or nuance in order to collapse all of that experience into something that people can rally on.Speaker 3 (04:51):I think there's something dehumanizing about our current politics, but I think that that is about power. I think when politics becomes about the consolidation of power or the perpetuation of power or the hanging on to it sort of desperately, then it no longer is about the people that the institutions and the country was built to serve and protect. And so I think there are all these ideals in our politics that on paper and in theory sound amazing, but when people in their humanness or maybe in the worst of our humanness step away from other people and not just people as sort of this collective generalized, but the actual person in front of you, the actual person in front of you and the story that they have and the life that they live, and how decisions and theories and ideals will impact the actual person in front of you. And when politics becomes about collecting power and maintaining that power at all costs, then it's no longer about people. It's no longer about lives. It's no longer about stories, and all those things become expendable in the name of the consolidation and the maintenance of power. And I think that at its heart is a human question. It's a question of selfishness and self-serving and maybe even self idolatry.Speaker 1 (06:49):I think that I agree, Matthias, I've been thinking a lot about, because in my family it's been a lot of comments like, well, we shouldn't talk about politics because we're family. I'm like, wait a minute, wait just a minute. Because the very politic that is being said from one angle is hurting the humanity of this other particular family member. How do we make sense of that? How do we say politics isn't a very human, the impact is meant to impact humans. The power is meant to impact humans, so the political sphere has become so toxic to us.Speaker 3 (07:40):Yeah, I think that sentence, we shouldn't talk about politics because we're family. It says more about maybe our fragility as a culture in this moment and our inability to have hard conversations without feeling like the difficulty of them fractures, relationships and familial bonds in ways that cannot be repaired or restored in any way. And I think it is also a statement about the toxicity of our politics that we have allowed it to get to a place where it actually threatens those kinds of familial bonds in some sense, you want go back to, you remember that book that was big in the nineties? All I ever learned about life I learned in kindergarten, right? All I ever needed to know, it reminds me of that because raising kids, I would raise my kids to say, there isn't anything on this earth that should fracture your bond as siblings. I raised them to believe that. I insisted that they engage the world from this vantage point that come hell or high water do or die is you and your sister. That's it. And it doesn't matter what happens in this world, there should never be a scenario in which that isn't true. And we have arrived at this place where people honestly believe that your political affiliation somehow threatens that.(09:19):That's sad and sad feels like a word that's not heavy enough to articulate. There's something wrong, really wrong if that's where we are,Speaker 2 (09:35):I think it speaks perhaps to our inability to do conflict well, and I'm the first, I don't do this all with my family at all. I'm terrible at conflict with my family, at least in the arena of politics. But I think about, I wonder if some of the fracturing that we say, I don't think it's all of it by any means, but is that reality of, because we can't have these conversations in our immediate family, it's getting projected into the wider, I mean, it has to play out somewhat. It is going to, that's the nature of it. So because we can't do it locally, it is having to play out on this grand scale. Rebecca, as you said, sad. I think it's horrifying too.Speaker 1 (10:44):It's what?Speaker 2 (10:45):Horrifying.Speaker 1 (10:46):Yes. It's very dangerous to be honest.Speaker 2 (10:54):It's very, yeah, those bonds, we have the familial bonds. Those are protective in some ways when we remove that, we remove those protections.Speaker 1 (11:11):I think we've been practicing at a society, and I'm talking particularly about the United States at ways of removing those bonds in multiple spheres of the way we've thought about life, the way we think about another person, the way we judge each other, the way we vote in past elections. I mean, the civil rights movement is pushing against that notion that family means dehumanizing someone else. And so even this idea of, I'm not even sure if I can say it right, but just how we've constructed the idea of family and what do our shared values mean. In some sense, it's been constructed on this false notion that someone is worth more than another person. Now, when that person shows up as fully human, then I think we don't know what to do with it.Speaker 3 (12:11):Yeah. I think something you said, Mathias about we don't do conflict well, right? I think rarely is any issue, black and white. Rarely is any issue. So clear cut and so definitive that you can boldly stand on one side or the other and stay there in perpetuity without ever having to wrestle or grapple with some complexity, some nuance. And I think maybe part of what we don't do well is that right? Somehow we've gotten to this space where we have maybe an oversimplified if that, I'm not even sure that's a good word, perspective on a number of issues as if there isn't any complexity and there isn't any nuance and there isn't any reason to pause and wonder if context or timing would change the way we think about something, right? And nor do we think that somehow changing your mind is no longer acceptable.(13:20):I think about, I saw a number of interviews with Kamala Harris. People talk to her about, well, why'd you change your mind about this or that? Why'd you change your perspective about this or that? And then part of the conversation was about when did we get to this place where growing and learning and changing your mind is bad for someone who is in the profession of holding public office since when can you not get in public office, learn some things differently, meet some new people, understand the issue better, and go, you know what? I need to change the way I think about this, but we are there. All of a sudden it means you're not fit for office, at least as it has been applied to Kamala Harris in this particular and even before her. The notion of a flip flopper is again to say you can't somehow change your mind.Speaker 2 (14:21):So that makes me start to then think about some of the myths, and I mean that deeper theological myth in the sense of not that it is untrue, but more in the sense of how it permeates culture. That's when I say myth and we have this idea or many people have this idea of a God that doesn't change, a God who doesn't change his mind as the ideal of there is right there is wrong, and the ideal is no change. And we have examples and scriptures, at least I believe, of a God who does change his mind, who sees what happens and change is what he does. And I think those can be compatible with maybe some ideas that maybe God doesn't change, but we also have examples of God changing his mind. But I think that has permeated our world of something unchanging is better than someone who or something who does change. And I wonder what that impact has beenSpeaker 3 (15:38):That made me pause. I certainly come out of a faith background of hold to God's unchanging hand. I mean, I can come up off the top of my head with a dozen different examples of the notion of he does not shift, he does not change. And the kind of comfort or solidity that can be found in this notion that we're not subject to the whim of his mood in any given time, but what you said causes me to think about it and to think about what does it mean to say that we live in a world where there is a God who can be persuaded by something in the human context that will cause him to respond or react differently than perhaps his original mindset is. I'm going to walk away from this conversation pondering that for a while. I think,Speaker 2 (16:30):Yeah, there are stories of that in scripture.Speaker 3 (16:36):The one that comes to my mind is the story of, and I'm not going to get all the names correct, so whoever's listening, forgive me for that. But the story that comes to my mind is the prophet of old who is pleaded with God for more time on earth, for more space to be alive and walk the earth as a human being. And God granted his request. And again, now there's a bit of a paradigm shift for me. What does it mean to say that I live in a world where there's a God who can be persuaded? I think the other thing when you said about a God who changes his mind, what comes up for me is also a God who holds extremely well the nuance and the complexity of our humanness and all that that means. And so often I find it's sort of the pharmaceutical attitude that we can have that things are rigid and there's only one way to see it and one way to do it. And if you ever watch Jesus's engagement with the Pharisees, it's always actually the problem is more complex than that. Actually the question you're asking is more than that. And so what matters less is the rule. What matters more is the impact of that rule. And if we need to change the rule in order for the appropriate impact, then let's do that.Speaker 1 (18:08):It's kind of gets back to something I've been learning in consultation, talking about this idea. I think we're talking about very young spaces collectively for our society. If I was to put it in that frame, the idea of as a child, a very young kid, even into your teenagers, you need to know something solid. You need to know that's not changing. That's the rule. That's what I got to do. And it's the parent's responsibility to make meaning and metabolize nuance for you and help you process through that. But one of our first developmental things is to split. This is good, this is bad, this person is safe, this person. That's a developmental process. But in somewhere we got stuck,Speaker 3 (18:54):It brings to my mind, you've heard me reference raising kids. And so I raised my kids to say this idea that you have to be respectful and thoughtful in your choices. And I always told my kid that so long as you are respectful and thoughtful in your choices, your voices will always be heard and welcomed kind of in our home. And so my daughter approached me, she's making an argument about something that I absolutely did not agree with her final conclusion. I was like, there's no version of anybody's universe where you're doing that, right? And she says to me, but you said if I was thoughtful and I was respectful that I could assert my position and I have been respectful in my tone and I've been thoughtful in my position. And she was absolutely right. Both had been true, and I found myself having to say, okay, now I sort of backed myself into a corner.(19:58):She followed me into it and the conversation ended up being about, Hey, that's true. Those are the parameters, but you're older now and the things that you're making decisions about have more impact and they're more nuanced and complex than that. So we need to add a couple more things to your rubric, and it's a hard conversation to have, but it makes me think about that developmental piece that you're saying, Danielle, that when we're younger, there's certain sort of bright line rules and the older you get and the more complex life gets, the more you need to be able to actually blur those lines a little bit and fudge them a little bit and sometimes color outside of the lines because it is the right thing to do.Speaker 2 (20:48):I think that movement from that really kind of rigid split into Rebecca what you're talking about, it requires that grappling with grief and loss, it requires that sense of even if I followed the rules, I didn't get what I wanted. And that is we have options there. We can rage against it and go back into the split, you are bad. I'm good, or actually grapple with that. I did everything I was supposed to and it still didn't work out in that words, it doesn't feel good and grieve and feel the pain of that and actually work with those parts of ourselves. And there is so much that our nation has not grieved, not repented from, and we are in the consequences of that.Speaker 1 (21:53):I was just thinking that Mathias, it's like we're asking one another to make meaning, but we're at a very base level of meaning making. We're trying to first discern, discern what is reality, and a lot of times we don't share reality, but when you're a baby, the reality is your caregiver hopefully, or even the absence of you become accustomed to that. And so I think we've become accustomed to this sense of almost this indoctrination of a certain type of religion, which I would call white evangelical Christianity, where they're telling you, I can make sense of all of this from the perspective of race. I can do that for you. Whether they talk about it explicitly or not, they're like, I can tell you what's good and bad from this perspective, but then if you add in how do you make sense of all the Christians vote for Trump and 84% of African-Americans are going to vote for Kamala Harris. I grew up thinking, are those people not Christians? I didn't know as a kid, I was raised with my father. I didn't understand, didn't make sense to me, but I thought, how could so many people as a child, I actually had this thought, how could so many people not know Jesus, but go to church and how could all these people know Jesus and say they're going to heaven? It never made sense to me.Speaker 3 (23:19):I mean, what you're saying, Danielle, is probably why there is a very clear historical and present day distinction between white evangelism and the black church. That's why those two things exist in different spaces because even from the very beginning, white evangelicalism or what became white evangelicalism advocated for slavery, and Frederick Douglass learned how to read by reading the scripture at risk to his own life and to the white slave owner who taught him how to read. And once he learned to read and absorbed the scriptures for himself, his comment is there is no greater dichotomy than the Christianity of this world and the Christianity of scripture. And so your sense that it doesn't make any sense is as old as the first enslaved African who knew how to understand the God of the Bible for him or herself and started to say out loud, we got problems, Houston.Speaker 1 (24:39):Yeah, I remember that as a young child asking that question because it just never made sense to me. And obviously I understand now, but as a kid you grow up with a certain particular family, a Mexican mom, a white father. I didn't know how to make sense of that.Speaker 3 (25:04):I mean, you say, oh, even now I understand and I want to go. You do. I don't explain that to me. I mean, there's a certain sense in which I think we're all in many ways, and I say all the country as a whole church, the American church as a whole trying to make sense of what is that, what was that and what do we do now that the modern sort of white evangelical movement is essentially the Christianity of our entire generation. And so now that that's being called into question in a way that suggests that perhaps it is white and it's religious, but it might not in fact be the Christianity of the Bible. Now what do we do? And I've spent some time in recent years with you, Danielle, in some Native American spaces in the presence of theologians who reckoned with things of God from a Native American perspective.(26:09):And if nothing else, I have learned there's a whole bunch. I don't know about what it means to walk with the God of the Bible and that my native brothers and sisters know some things I don't know, and I am kind of mad about it. I'm kind of angry actually about what it is they know that was kept from me that I was taught to dismiss because the author of those ideas didn't look like the white Jesus whose picture was in my Bible or on the vacation Bible school curriculum or whatever. I'm sort of angry at the wisdom they hold for what it means to be a follower of what I think in many native spaces they would refer to as creator, and that was withheld from me. That would've changed the way, enhanced the way I understand this place of faith. And something that white evangel and evangelicalism expressly said was heresy was of the devil was to be ignored or dismissed or dismantled or buried.Speaker 1 (27:31):I mean, you have Tucker Carlson referring to Trump as daddy in a recent speech. So you then have this figure that can say, Hey, little kids, don't worry. Your worldview is okay. It's still right and let me make sense of it. I can make sense of it for you with X, Y, Z policies with racist rhetoric and banter. I can do anything I want. I can show up in Madison Square Garden and replicate this horrific political rally and I can do it and everybody will be okay with it, even if they're not okay, they're not going to stop me. So we still have a meaning maker out there. I mean, he is not making my meaning, but he's making meaning. For a lot of folks.Speaker 3 (28:29):It is even worse than that. There's a couple of documentaries that are out now. One's called Bad Faith, the other one's called God and Country, and in one of them, I think it was Bad Faith, and they're talking about the rise of Christian nationalism. For me, as a person of faith, one of my biggest questions has always been, there's nothing about this man's rhetoric that remotely reflects anything I ever learned in every Sunday school class and every vacation Bible school, in every Bible study and every church service I've ever been to. He is boldly antithetical to all of it.(29:06):And he says that out loud, right back to his comments about, no, I've never asked God for forgiveness because I've never done anything that warranted forgiveness that is antithetical to the heart of evangelical Christianity that asserts that the only way to God and to heaven in the afterlife is through the person of Jesus Christ. And so every person has to admit their own sin and then accept Christ as the atonement for that sin. And he bluntly says, I don't do that. Right. So my question has always been, I don't get it right. Two plus two is now four in your world. So how are 80% of evangelicals or higher voting for this man? And in that movie, bad faith, they talk about, they make reference to the tradition of Old Testament scripture of a king who is not a follower of God, who God sort of uses anyway towards the bent of his own will.(30:18):And there's probably a number of references in Old Testament scripture if I was an Old Testament theologian, some of the people who have invested in me, I could give you names and places and dates. I can't do that. But there is a tradition of that sort of space being held and the notion what's being taught in some of these churches on Sundays and on Wednesday night Bible study is that's who he is. That's who Trump is in a religious framework. And so he gets a pass and permission to be as outlandish and as provocative and as mean spirited and as dare I say, evil or bad as he wants to be. And there is no accountability for him in this life, or the next one, which I don't even know what to say to that, except it's the genius move to gaslight an entire generation of Christians that will probably take hold and be with us for far longer than Trump is on the political landscape.Speaker 2 (31:29):I am not fully convinced it's gaslighting. On one hand it is. They're saying one thing, doing another. It absolutely is by definition. And I think growing up in white evangelicalism, there is, at least for the men, I think an implicit belief, I don't even think it's explicit. It's becoming explicit that they get that past too. It functions on those passes, those senses of we don't have to hold up to accountability. And I think we see that in all the sexual abuse scandals. We see that in the narcissism of so many white evangelical pastors. There is this sense of, as long as we're in this system, there isn't accountability. And so you can say one thing and do another, and it doesn't matter. You have God's authority over you and therefore it's okay. And so I think there's something, I'm right there with you, it doesn't make any sense, but I think it's also quite consistent with the way that authority has been structured within thoseSpeaker 1 (33:14):Spaces that you said that I felt like, I don't know if you ever get your heartbeat right in your neck, but I had it right there. Oh, yeah. I think that feels true. Yeah, it's gaslighting, but also it's meant to be that way.Speaker 3 (33:39):Do you think that that's new math or is that at the inception? What do you attribute the origin of that? And I don't disagree with you, I'm just sitting here like, damn, okay, so where does that come from and how long has it been there?Speaker 2 (34:04):I don't know. I have guesses. I think, how do you enslave an entire people without something like that and then found literal denominations that are structured on these power and authority? It goes back to what you were saying at the beginning, Rebecca, it's about power and accountability supports power.Speaker 3 (34:50):Yeah. Have you read The Color of Compromise?Speaker 2 (34:59):There's a documentary by that same name, right? The filmSpeaker 3 (35:02):There might beSpeaker 2 (35:05):See the film. Yeah.Speaker 3 (35:07):So he makes a comment in the book. He is writing this chapter about sort of the origins of the country and the country is as the colonies are being formed before it is a country, the colonists are in this sort of public debate about slavery and Christianity. And at least in tissie's research, there's sort of this group of colonists who come to the United States or what will become the US for the sake of proselytizing, evangelizing who they term savage, native and then enslaved Africans. And they're having this public conversation about does the conversion of a native or an African to Christianity remove them from slavery, essentially? Can you theologically own someone who's a profess child of God?(36:32):And Tse says that the origin of that debate has to do with an old English law that said that you can't enslave someone who is of the faith. And I remember reading that and thinking to myself, there's something wrong with the logic that you think you have the right to own any human being regardless of their faith belief system or not. There's something wrong with the premise in general that you believe as another human being, you have the right to own or exercise dominion over another human soul. So those are the things that go across my mind as I listen to you talk and propose the notion that this issue has been there, this flaw in the thinking has been there from the beginning.Speaker 1 (37:40):I was just thinking, I am reading this book by Paola Ramos about defectors and how Latinos in the US have moved to the far right, and she makes a case that the faith of the Spaniards told them that in order to achieve superiority, they should basically make babies with the indigenous peoples of the Americas. And they went about and did that. And then I know we always think popular literature, the United States, oh, India has this caste system. That's what people say, but really Latin America has a really complex caste system too. And to which after they brought over, and Rebecca and I know Matthias, you guys know this, but after they brought over stole African human bodies, a majority of them came Latin America, what we know as Latin America, they didn't come here to the United States to the continental us. And so then you have this alliance then between, and I'll bring it back to politics between these mixed Spaniards with indigenous folks also in enslaving Africans.(38:56):So then you get to our political commentary and you're recruiting Latinos then to join the Evangelical white church movement. And they've often been demonized and excluded in spaces because of citizenship, which adds its own complexity where African-Americans, now they have citizenship right now on the current day, but then you have these Latinos that it can be born or they're brought over on daca. So then you have this complexity where not only is there this historical century hating of African-Americans and black folks in Latino culture, but you also have this sense of that to get ahead, you have to align with white folks to come against African-Americans. You have all of that in the mix, and also then you also have to deny yourself and the fact that you have African heritage and indigenous heritage, so it's this huge mind fuck, right? How do you make sense of that colonial jargon in the political landscape? And then how does a Latino think, how do they actually encounter the nuance of their humanity and all of that, but complexly set up by the Spanish who said, we're going to enslave this X people group. In the meantime, we'll just mix our mix with this certain race, but the white people will be more dominant. And so you see that all comes into the United States politic and who gets to be human and who gets not to be human.Speaker 3 (40:44):I mean, in some ways, Daniel, you're pointing out that, and I think this goes back to math's point of several minutes ago, none of this is new under the sun. All of this is just current day manifestations or reenactments of a racialized dynamic that's been in play since forever, since even before maybe even the American colonies, right? Because what happened in terms of the transatlantic slave trade in Latin America predates some of that.Speaker 2 (41:18):Yeah. I mean, I think about England colonizing a huge portion of the world under the name of their faith that requires quite a distancing from accountability in humanity. Then you get an extreme fringe of those folks starting their own colonies.Speaker 3 (41:47):I mean, it does make me think, and my Pentecostalism is about the show, but it does make me think that there's something about this whole dynamic that's starting to feel really ancient and very old patterns that have been in place, and to me suggests from a spiritual standpoint, an enemy that is organized and intentional, and I have begun to wonder less than a week out from the election, what's the game plan if the election doesn't go the way I hope it does? What happens if America decides to give into its lesser urges as it has done in the past, and choose a path that is contrary and antithetical to its ideals what we're going to do? I ask that not even from a practical standpoint as much as spiritually speaking, how am I going to breathe and how am I going to make meaning of what you do with a world where that's the reality? We were talking before we got on air about the rally in Times Square and we can rail against it all we want, but there was hundreds of thousands of people there saying, yeah, let's do that.Speaker 4 (43:40):That scares me. AndSpeaker 2 (43:52):It doesn't go away. Even if Harris wins, I think your question of what do we do if Trump wins? It's a sobering question. It's a terrifying question, but I think it's also a very similar question of even if she wins, what do we do? What do we do? These people don't magically disappear.Speaker 1 (44:30):We're going to have to do no matter what. I just feel like there has to be some sort of, like you said, Mathias, just processing of the grief of our past because it's chasing us. You can hear it in each of our stories. It is just chasing us what we've been a part of, what we've been asked to give up. And I think America, well, the United States, not America, but the United States is terrified of what it would mean if it had to face that kind of grief.Speaker 3 (45:23):I don't know about that, Danielle, because for there to be terror would mean that you have had some conscious admission that something is gravely wrong. And I'm not even sure if we're there yet. I think America as a whole has a whole lot of defense mechanisms and coping mechanisms in place, so they never even have to get that far. And I don't know what you call that, what comes before the terror, right? Because terror would mean some part of you has admitted something, and I just don't know if we're there. And that's just me meandering through a thought process. ButSpeaker 1 (46:19):Oh, that's scary too, right? I think you're probably right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think we're going to bump up against our time. I know, Mathias, you have something coming up too, but any final thoughts? I don't expect us to solve anything or wrap it up, butSpeaker 2 (46:47):I'm just noting how I'm feeling and there's something both sobering and grounding about this conversation. I don't think we've covered really any kind of necessarily new territory, but to continue to speak these things, it's so brain, but it's also like, okay, we can ground ourselves in these things though. These things are true and it's terrible, but when we ground ourselves, we have ground just, and that feels different from some of the up in the air anxiety I was feeling before coming to this coverage, just the general anxiety of the election that is so pervasive. So that's a shift.Speaker 3 (47:53):I think I found myself looking back a lot in recent days back to the history of the story of African hyphen Americans in the United States, back to some fundamental things that I learned about my faith early on. And I have a sense of needing to return to those things as part of grounding that regardless of what happens in the next week or the next several months or even the next six months, we have been here before as a country, as a people, and we have survived it, and we will do so again. If I think about the black national anthem, God of our weary years, God of our silent tears, and I have found myself needing to return to those traditions and those truths, and I think I'll stay there for as long as my mind and my body and my emotions will allow me to as a way of breathing through the next several days. I mean, talk to me on November 6th. That might be in a very different place, or January 6th or January 20th, but for today, I find myself looking back, I have some curiosity for each of you. What are those traditions for you, in your own spaces, in your family, in your culture, in your people? What are the things that have grounded you in the past, and can they ground you again going forward?Speaker 2 (49:43):I'm sitting here finding myself wanting to come up with some beautiful answer. And the reality is I don't know that I have a beautiful answer. It's a difficult task.Speaker 1 (50:00):Yeah. I mean, no, we're wrapping up. I can't give you anything clever except I think what comes to mind is I often just tell myself just the next hour, the next day, sometimes I don't even think about tomorrow. I tell myself, don't rush too much. You don't know what's in tomorrow. Today's going to be okay. So I kind of coach myself up like stay in the moment.Speaker 3 (50:38):And in all fairness, Danielle, your people, if you will, are facing a very different kind of threat under a Trump presidency than mine are, and that is, I'm firmly of the belief if he's going to come for one of us, eventually he will come for all of us. But I'm also very aware that the most pressing existential threat is coming against people of Latinx descent people who very well may be American citizens, are facing the potential reality that won't matter. And so your sense of blackness gay through the next hour, I'm good. I have a lot of respect for what these days are requiring of you. Thank you.Speaker 1 (51:43):Thanks for hopping on here with me, guys.Speaker 2 (51:47):Thank you.   Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

No matter how many homes you sell or how much money you make, life can throw you struggles you just can't escape. As business owners and parents, our natural response is to try and fix it, but what happens when the situation is one you can't change?  That's what happened to Jim Allen. After facing and overcoming his own health crisis, he's recently been faced with his son's rapid permanent blindness. This is an ongoing situation, and unlike something you overcome, you have to learn a new normal. Instead of trying to fix it, the true task is living with it.  When you're in the thick of something like that, it might be hard to show up as a team leader, but Jim sees it differently. Having a team has actually been helpful.   How does running a team help you both in business and in your personal life? In this episode, he shares his story, his son's story and the mentality that's carrying him through this.    As a parent and as a business owner, I've been able to solve every problem in my path, I can't fix this. You don't escape it and recover, you learn a new norm. -Jim Allen   Three Things You'll Learn In This Episode  -You're a team whether you acknowledge it or not Some highly successful agents would rather not have a team, but ultimately anyone who makes a transaction possible is part of your team. Why is having a team so necessary? -How God got Jim's attention As a team leader who was running fast, what was the event that forced Jim Allen to slow down and focus on what matters?  -You can't fix it, but you can learn to live with it As business owners, we're really good at solving every problem in our path, but there are some things you can't fix. How do you adjust to the new norm?   Guest Bio  Jim Allen is President at The Jim Allen Group. He demonstrates unwavering desire in upholding his honor as the No. 1 General Brokerage Real Estate agent in the Triangle. After obtaining his degree in engineering, Jim embarked upon his real estate career during which he steadily climbed to the position of the top sales and listing agent in the Triangle and is currently ranked #77 nationally by the Wall Street Journal. In 2009 Jim transitioned his business to Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston. Within the first few months, Jim won the International President's Premier Award, which is the highest honor, won by less than one percent of Coldwell Banker sales associates globally. Jim's recipe for success has been his undying passion, commitment and dedication towards his company and employees enabling them to thrive amidst the most challenging real estate environments. To learn more head to https://www.jimallen.com/. 

In this episode, a young farmer tells how he is lucky to be alive after being trapped under a stack of falling bales.Christopher Rolfe was airlifted to hospital following the accident thanks to Kent, Surrey & Sussex Air Ambulance.Chris told his story at the start of Farm Safety Week – the annual campaign by the Farm Safety Foundation and the Yellow Wellies charity.The busy harvest period often sees a spike in the number of farm accidents – including collisions on the road between tractors and other vehicles.As harvest continues, police are conducting roadside are checks on tractors and trailers to make sure they are safe.We learn how the Tilly Your Trailer campaign can ensure your grain and silage trailers are properly maintained and stay on the right side of the law.We also take a look at the prospects for oilseed rape following ongoing concern for the future of the crop in the UK.We've our regular market round-up and all the latest commodity prices.And we find out why King Charles has bestowed the royal title on the Royal Golden Guernsey Goat breed – and what it means for farming.This episode of the Farmers Weekly Podcast is hosted by Johann Tasker with Scottish farmer Sandy Kirkpatrick.Additional reporting by Farmers Weekly arable correspondent Louise Impey.You can contact the Farmers Weekly Podcast by emailing podcast@fwi.co.uk. In the UK, you can also text the word FARM followed by your message to 88 44 0. 

Arizona Diamondbacks vs. New York Mets MLB Betting Pick Prediction 6/1/2024 by Tony T. Diamondbacks at Mets—Blake Walston is the starter for Arizona. Walston has two appearances allowing two earned runs with nine strikeouts but five walks in 8 1/3rd innings. A first round pick in 2019 out of high school who had an ERA of 4.54 and WHIP of 1.68 in 35 2/3rd innings in Triple A this year. He struck out 35 batters with 20 walks at Reno. Sean Manaea is the starter for New York. Manaea in ten starts has an ERA of 3.16 with WHIP of 1.26. The lefthander strikes out 21.7% with 10.1% walks. Ground balls are 33.3% with 0.53 home runs per nine innings.

Welcome to Episode 67 of the WeInfuse podcast! In this enlightening episode, host we sit down with Marie Groves, MS, RD, LD and Angie Walston, RD, LD, CNSC, Co-Founders of Salt and Lyte Nutrition Services. They delve into their journey from clinical dietitians to entrepreneurs, offering invaluable insights on developing successful home parenteral and enteral nutrition programs that ensure excellent patient outcomes and thriving operations. Marie and Angie share their passion for nutrition, the importance of a united team approach, and their innovative strategies for optimizing revenue cycles and sustaining growth in home infusion companies. They also discuss their exciting collaboration with WeInfuse to revolutionize the management of patients needing nutrition support through cutting-edge technology. Tune in to discover how to balance exceptional patient care with efficient operations, and learn practical tips on enhancing your nutrition support services for long-term success. Don't miss this episode filled with expert advice and inspiring stories that can transform your practice!

Contributor: Aaron Lessen MD Educational Pearls: Epinephrine is essential in the treatment of anaphylaxis, but is epinephrine dangerous from a cardiovascular perspective? A 2024 study in the Journal of the American College of Emergency Physicians Open sought to answer this question. Methods: Retrospective observational study at a Tennessee quaternary care academic ED that analyzed ED visits from 2017 to 2021 involving anaphylaxis treated with IM epinephrine. The primary outcome was cardiotoxicity Results: Out of 338 patients, 16 (4.7%) experienced cardiotoxicity. Events included ischemic EKG changes (2.4%), elevated troponin (1.8%), atrial arrhythmias (1.5%), ventricular arrhythmia (0.3%), and depressed ejection fraction (0.3%). Affected patients were older, had more comorbidities, and often received multiple epinephrine doses. Bottom line: All adults presenting with anaphylaxis should be rapidly treated with epinephrine but monitored closely for cardiotoxicity, especially in patients with a history of hypertension and those who receive multiple doses. These results are supported by a 2017 study that found that 9% (4/44) of older patients who received epinephrine for anaphylaxis had cardiovascular complications. References Kawano, T., Scheuermeyer, F. X., Stenstrom, R., Rowe, B. H., Grafstein, E., & Grunau, B. (2017). Epinephrine use in older patients with anaphylaxis: Clinical outcomes and cardiovascular complications. Resuscitation, 112, 53–58. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.resuscitation.2016.12.020 Pauw, E. K., Stubblefield, W. B., Wrenn, J. O., Brown, S. K., Cosse, M. S., Curry, Z. S., Darcy, T. P., James, T. E., Koetter, P. E., Nicholson, C. E., Parisi, F. N., Shepherd, L. G., Soppet, S. L., Stocker, M. D., Walston, B. M., Self, W. H., Han, J. H., & Ward, M. J. (2024). Frequency of cardiotoxicity following intramuscular administration of epinephrine in emergency department patients with anaphylaxis. Journal of the American College of Emergency Physicians open, 5(1), e13095. https://doi.org/10.1002/emp2.13095 Summarized by Jeffrey Olson MS2 | Edited by Meg Joyce & Jorge Chalit OMS II

In this episode, the third in our 3 part series with Second Door Health, we continue our exploration of innovative approaches in physical therapy with Zach, the head of clinical strategy. Having previously discussed the foundations and business aspects with co-founders Scott and Ryan, this conversation with Zach goes deeper into the clinical implications and transformative potential of direct-to-employer healthcare services. Zach shares his extensive background and the pivotal transitions from hands-on clinical work to developing broad-scale health strategies that aim to redefine patient care.We discuss the critical role of personalized care plans, the importance of understanding patient needs beyond the clinical environment, and how physical therapists can leverage their expertise to deliver holistic, impactful health outcomes. The discussion also covers the necessity of integrating educational outreach and behavioral health into physical therapy practice, challenging traditional treatment models.Tune in to gain insights into how physical therapy can evolve from a service-based to a value-based profession, enhancing both patient well-being and professional satisfaction.If you'd like to learn more about Strata EMR & RCM and achieving a 99.99% reimbursement rate for your PT, OT, or SLP Clinic head over to stratapt.com and book a demo with our team!

In this episode of RISE Urban Nation, we're thrilled to welcome Brianna Régine Walston, the powerhouse founder and CEO of Brianna Régine Visionary Consulting and the 2023 Young Entrepreneur of the Year. Brianna shares her inspiring journey from being a passionate advocate for workplace wellness and DEI to becoming a multi-award-winning entrepreneur and brand growth strategist. Listeners will gain exclusive insights into:Strategies for Standing Out: Learn the tactics Brianna employed to differentiate her brand in competitive markets.Passion and Profit: Discover how to turn your passion into a profitable venture with practical advice from Brianna's experience.Overcoming Entrepreneurial Challenges: Brianna discusses the challenges she faced and how resilience led to her success.The Power of Networking: Insights into building effective support systems and leveraging mentorship for business growth.Amplifying Online Visibility: Tips on increasing your brand's digital footprint and connecting with a broader audience.Unique Challenges for Black Entrepreneurs: A candid discussion on navigating the entrepreneurial landscape as a Black business owner.Brianna's story is a testament to the power of vision, determination, and strategic action. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or an established business looking to scale, this episode is packed with actionable insights and inspiration to help you rise to the top.Call to Action: Don't miss this motivational journey of entrepreneurial success. Subscribe to RISE Urban Nation to stay updated on inspiring stories and strategies that empower Black entrepreneurs and beyond. Share this episode with your network and join us in celebrating the achievements and insights of Brianna Régine Walston.Connect with Brianna Régine Walston!Website: www.brvisionaryconsulting.com | www.briannaregine.comEmail: brianna@brvisionaryconsulting.comFacebook: http://www.facebook.com/brvisionaryconsultingInstagram: https://instagram.com/brvisionaryconsulting Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/brvisionaryconsulting/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briannareginewalston/Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@briannaregine?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc Join the Movement with RISE Urban Nation Podcast

#050 Embarking on a career change is not for the faint of heart, and that's exactly why our guest for today is Lindsay Walston, whose leap from physical therapy to real estate is nothing short of inspiring. With the heart of a caretaker and the mind of a savvy investor, Lindsay shares her journey to career happiness.In this episode, we will talk about the 'sunk cost fallacy' and the courage it takes to align passion with profession. For anyone wrestling with the desire for change, this dialogue serves as both a mirror and a map—reflecting your potential anxieties and giving you a new perspective.We will also talk about the real estate business, and Lindsay will share with us the details for first-time homebuyers and new agents. Our discussion offers valuable advice on navigating the agent vetting process, understanding the bond between buyers and agents, and the importance of preparing yourself before entering a new field. For those considering a pivot in their careers, Lindsay's narrative provides both inspiration and a roadmap to success in the world of real estate. For links and show notes, head to: https://rehabrebels.org/050Start your Rehab Rebel Journey! Receive access to FREE monthly progress updates, interview schedule, and a BONUS Top 25 Alternative Careers List for Rehab Professionals when you Start your Rebel Career and be part of the Rehab Rebels Tribe!Join us on Instagram and Facebook or your favorite social media @rehabrebels!Subscribe through Apple Podcast or Spotify!Support the show

Justin Jumps in to a Deep Discussion about Home Security with our Security Advisor Kolby Walston with Advocate Security!we explore DIY technology vs using an advisor like Kolby while exploring your home safety options!

In this episode, Jack welcomes Drew Walston, the Founder, CEO, and Chairman of the Board of Mighty Hero Homes. After over 20 years of serving in various executive roles in the insurance business, Drew felt called to use his gifts to help eradicate homelessness among veterans. From this, Drew took a step of obedience and established Mighty Hero Homes. Mighty Hero Homes exists to eradicate veteran homelessness by providing affordable, permanent, personal homes to all homeless veterans in safe environments with a full array of on-base amenities and wraparound services. Homeless to Home Ownership is the objective for each Base resident.Learn more about Drew and Might Hero Homes at www.jackwwilliams.com/podcast

The Arizona Diamondbacks offense showed up against the A's Spring Training squad on Monday but the pitchers did not. Millard Thomas breaks down the good and bad from Monday's game before diving into if the Dbacks were the smartest spenders this free agency and where the lineup ranks in the NL West. TWITTER:@LO_Diamondbacks@creatorthomas24 INSTAGRAM:millard.thomas123 Follow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms…

In today's episode, we are excited to feature Brianna Régine Walston, the founder and CEO of Brianna Régine Visionary Consulting. As a multi-award-winning entrepreneur and brand growth strategist, Brianna is not just a business leader but also a passionate advocate for workplace wellness and diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). Celebrated as the 2023 Young Entrepreneur of the Year, her insights and experiences offer invaluable lessons and motivation for anyone looking to make a positive impact in the business world and beyond. Join us as we dive into Brianna's story and discover the essence of true entrepreneurial spirit. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/black-gold-podcast/support

Brianna Regine Walston - CEO & Founder of BRVC is a visionary consultant and she works with entrepreneurs and decision makers with brand growth strategies.  More Info: https://www.brvisionaryconsulting.com/ Subscribe to our You-Tube Channel Beepodcast  and our Newsletter https://www.drfrancesrichards.com/ for updates, special events and be a part of this vibrant community of change-makers.  Don't miss out! Tune in to the "Black Entrepreneur Experience" podcast, and be sure to subscribe, share, and listen to our episodes as we navigate the path to entrepreneurial greatness together. Your support helps us amplify the voices and stories that need to be heard. Together, we can create a thriving ecosystem of Black entrepreneurship.

Jimmy McGee and Rebecca Wheeler Walston join me to talk about how they came to understand the importance of trauma and story engagement. If you want to engage your story in more depth, the Impact Movement is hosting an online event called Hope and Anchor Story Weekend. This zoom event will take place Sept 30 to Oct 1. You can find out more here.

Award-winning brand growth strategist Brianna Régine Walston shares tips for building your company's awareness, credibility, and revenues

TELLING A TRU(ER) STORY MASTER CLASSAre you struggling with a traumatic experience or maybe trying to better understand how your past keeps impacting your present?  Are you in a helping profession (mental health professionals,  ministers, spiritual directors, teachers, mentors) and want to learn how to assist others that are navigating traumatic experiences?Introducing a NEW 2-Track professional training from The Art of Living Counseling Center.Final registration closes on February 24, 2023. Don't miss out. https://artoflivingcounseling.com/professional-training/ Cyndi Mesmer Speaker & Facilitator Cyndi Mesmer, LCPC identifies as a white cisgender, able-bodied, straight woman. She is the clinical director and co-owns, with her husband Steve, The Art of living Counseling Center in Crystal Lake, IL. Cyndi worked as a teacher, supervisor and trainer at The Allender Center in Seattle WA. Cyndi has worked in all levels of care for mental health.She has about 30 years of experience working with individuals, families and groups. She primarily works with clients working through trauma, both past and present. She sees the world through the lens of story and invites others to engage their stories in a way that brings more freedom and life, both personal and communal. She is a seeker of racial justice and advocate for other oppressed groups believing that there should be equal rights and flourishing for all humans. You can read more at www.artoflivingcounseling.com Rebecca Wheeler Walston Guest Speaker & Facilitator Rebecca Wheeler Walston holds a Master of Arts in Counseling from Reformed Theological Seminary and currently serves as a Fellow with The Allender Center, facilitating Story Workshops and NFTC. Rebecca also comes to this work through The Impact Movement, a college ministry to Black students, as Impact partners with The Allender Center to bring this work to BIPOC spaces in creative and innovative ways. She lives in Williamsburg, VA with her husband Vaughn and their two children, where Vaughn works as an Engineer and Rebecca runs a Law Practice and serves as General Legal Counsel for The Impact Movement, Inc. Danielle S. Castillejo Guest Speaker & Facilitator Danielle holds an MA in Counseling in Psychology from The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology, is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor Associate in Washington State, story lover, owner of Way-Finding Therapy, podcaster, avid reader, writer, adventurer and advocate.She works and advocates from an anti-oppression lens, holding space for hope, love and repair. She loves the anticipation of Spring and Summer in the Northwest – the long days and sunlight we miss in the dark winters. You can easily find her out on a trail, laughing, cooking with her kids, or working in the yard.If you choose to reach out and we embark on a counseling journey together, it will be one that is co-created. I do not believe that I have all of the answers, nor all of the ideas or intellect to guide you. I trust my body and intuition. I trust your body and intuition. We will work with both narrative and somatic narrative. I believe our bodies tell a story. You can read mine at www.wayfindingtherapy.com DATES OF TRAININGFinal registration closes on February 24, 2023.DATES OF TRAINING & TOPICSMarch 10, 2023 9:00am – 4:00pm CTMarch 24, 2023 9:00am – 4:00pm CTApril 21, 2023 9:00am – 4:00pm CTMay 12, 2023 9:00am – 4:00pmCTWe are excited to offer two interconnected tracks for this training:Track 1:  The Teaching Experience.  Track 1 is for those participants who want to be further educated about trauma and traumas impact on an individual.  There will be four teaching sessions over four Fridays in the Spring of 2023 (see dates above). Each sessions will include interactive teaching and discussion as well as a live story facilitation.  If you are signing up for The Teaching Experience of the Telling a Tru(er) Story Spring Training you will have access to the live virtual training as well as, access to watch or re-watch the recorded teachings at your leisure.  Tier 1 is recommended for individuals who would like to gain further understanding about the nature of trauma, and how it affects us.   It is open to an unlimited number of registrants and no prior experience is needed. Track 2:  The Story Group Experience.  Track 2 includes everything in Track 1 but adds more in depth training through participation in six, 2-hour Story Groups.  Participants signing up for Track 2 will have the opportunity to practice what they are learning in the Track 1 teaching through written story work as well as practicing engaging another persons story of harm.  With this Story Group Experience participants will gain experience both as a reader of a personal narrative and as a Co-facilitator of a fellow group members personal narrative.  As a reader you will gain experience writing two personal narratives, reading your stories within a group setting and receiving feedback and care around your personal narrative.  As a co-facilitator you will gain experience engaging two group members personal narratives and receive coaching and feedback on your facilitation experience from your coach.  The coaching and feedback will be offered in real-time as the facilitation happens and through one follow up Private Coaching Session.  The Story Group Experience is recommended for those participants who have some prior story work experience and would like additional practice engaging stories of harm.  Track 2 is also appropriate for those participants with little to no experience but, have a strong desire to learn how to engage trauma in a group setting and/or want to become a Story Group Facilitator in their place of influence.  For this Spring Cohort we are taking only 30 participants for The Story Group Experience, 15 of these registration spots will be reserved for our BIPOC participants.For Track 2 Participants:You will have (6) 2 hour groups in addition to the Friday teaching schedule.  See schedule below to choose your preferred group times.  You will be with the same group for all 6 sessions and there are 6 participants per group maximum. Track 2 Groups Day and Time Options: (When you apply, you will be asked to pick your first three preferences.)Friday's 4pm- 6pm CST (March 10th, March 17th, March 24th , April 14th, April 21st &  May 12th)Fridays 6pm – 8pm CST (March 10th, March 24th , April 7th, April 21st, April 28th &  May 12th)Fridays 5pm – 7pm CST (March 10th, March 24th , March 31st, April 21st, April 28th &  May 12th)Saturday's 8am – 10am CST (March 11th, March 25, April 15, April 22nd, May 6th & May 13th)Saturday's 10am – Noon CST (March 11, March 25, April 15th, April 22nd, May 6th & May 13th) 

Dr. Zachary Walston the director of quality and research and the orthopaedic residency coordinator at PT Solutions Physical Therapy discusses their orthopaedic residency program, what they do to build their clinicians clinical reasoning skills and how those things have evolved over time. Listen and find out how he has built his clinical reasoning skills and how PTs can build theirs. Helpful research and training: Evidence In Motion Residency and Fellowships Evidence-Based Practice Are Residency Programs the Best Option for Graduates Ad Info: If you want to keep learning beyond what you hear today, EIM offers certifications that elevate your clinical decision making and take you to the next level of patient care and subject matter expertise. I encourage you to check out their website and explore your different options. What's really cool is that you can get 10% off by letting your enrollment advisor know you're a PT Elevated Podcast listener or entering code PODCAST10 in your program application. Details and links to certifications are in the show notes. I encourage you to check it out. Connect with us on socials:ZacharyWaltson.com Website @zachwalston on Twitter zach.walston on Instagram@PMintkenDPT on Twitter@ZimneyKJ on Twitter EIM Website - EvidenceInMotion.com

▶️ Visit to know more: https://www.raphaelcollazo.com/ Welcome, and for all your questions, Raphael Collazo is here to help you with understanding restaurant build-outs with Jeff Walston. If you are interested in learning about the many facets of commercial real estate, whether you're a business owner, investor, or just someone who's curious about the subject, you'll gain value from being a part of the group! In today's episode, Jeff discussed his background and experiences in the commercial real estate industry. Along with that, he also shared insights regarding the contracting items to consider when undertaking a restaurant build-out and some of the obstacles you'll have to navigate. So, watch the full video until the end to learn about the nuances of office real estate. ▶️ If you're interested in learning more about Jeff, check out the following links: ▶ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-walston/ ▶ Website: https://premiseconstruction.com ▶ Email: jeffwalston@premiseconstruction.com If you like the video, please SUBSCRIBE and don't forget to press the bell

Today we are talking to Suneet Agarwal, the CEO of the #1 realty team in California. What's his strategy that keeps him at the top and how is he planning on riding this recession?Suneet Agarwal is a real estate coach and CEO of BIG BLOCK REALTY NORTH. He is currently ranked as the #1 agent in Greater Sacramento MLS and is the CEO of Best Sac Homes Group, the #2 mega team in California as ranked by the Wall Street Journal and Real Trends. His 12 years of dedication to his clients and his strong work ethic have made him one of the TOP Realtors in California.Three Things You'll Learn in This EpisodeHow do you make sure everyone knows your name?How are top agents thriving during a recession?Why you need to be making content and developing a brand.ResourceLearn More About SuneetReal Estate Marketing DudeThe Listing Advocate (Earn more listings!)REMD on YouTubeREMD on InstagramTranscript:So how do you track new business, you constantly don't have to chase it. Hi, I'm Mike Cuevas to real estate marketing. And this podcast is all about building a strong personal brand people have come to know, like trust and most importantly, refer. But remember, it is not their job to remember what you do for a living. It's your job to remind them. Let's get startedWhat's up ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this episode of the real estate marketing dude, podcast, folks we're gonna get in today it is fourth quarter.A lot of people are going into hiding right now I'm gonna talk to someone who's not. As the market continues to retract, this guy gets louder and louder and louder. And in all honesty, that's what you need to do in this type of market. Look, I understand 90% of you have never seen a shift before in your industry. In this business. We've been spoiled for the last 12 to 14 years. But although some things may be a little slow right now, it's the stuff that you're going to do today that's going to pay off in the first quarter of next year. Because what's going to happen mark my words folks have been saying for the last four fucking months is that a lot of people are gonna go out of business and the ones who are still standing, they're going to wreak it all. And one of the ways that you're going to do that is by out branding everybody. And I saw a stat this morning this afternoon actually watch what a Jeff Pitzer his videos and his numbers are right on he goes, he goes look, Walston, 1% of people are actually like content creators. 9% of people slightly engaged and the 90% of people just fucking sit there and watch on social media. And it's like, which game do you want to play when you own the attention? And when people naturally just like you're everywhere all the time? Nothing but good happens. And that's what we're going to get into today? How do you take an omnipresent approach, specifically on video and be everywhere all the time? And then how do you use that to build your brand and build a business recruiting a client attraction, it's all the same thing. There's a reason why the most popular agents are always the ones who do the most businesses because they have the most eyeballs or attention. And that's the number one name in the game in real estate. Everyone's selling the same shit. So the one they think of first 85% of the time, that's who's gonna win the deal. So without further ado, we're going to introduce the number one or number two team in California.The top team in California this year, Sydney, it's just a neat Agra. Well, let's welcome back, dude. Yes, happy to friggin be here, man. Let's go. And I love the intro. And it's great. Like all that, like, whatever success I have, which may be something maybe that thing?Is my outlook on this comes from learning from you, brother. Appreciate that. Why don't you fucking send us some damn business, bro. Like, let's go. Alright, soI want to tee this up. Because I've known suneet Before he like, right when he got licensed like Sunnite is probably you know, you're on a lot of stages. Right now you're on you're doing getting called on a lot of events, because he's doing a very high volume. How many appointments did your isa team set last month was like 596? No, last month was down by a fucking lot last month was only like 660. And normally we're like, 7030. And these are appointments. So your agents are going on? And then you know, pitching the services and what not. So that's great. But we're gonna backtrack this because with the amount of success and neat has, you would assume that he's been doing this for 15 or 20 years? He hasn't. Okay. So neat. I remember meeting Sunnite for the first time in a club wealth event. I like to say it was in 2016. That's right. I think just about six years ago, and sunny corners me at the bar. Hey, Mike, how do you run these? How do you run these Facebook ads? Right? Tell me how I'm running all these Facebook ads and Sunnite was all bug big I'd big bug I'd like a little kid just brand new and a candidate.Since then, bro, you're just absolutely dominated. I'm really proud of what you've done and what you've built thanks up there in Sacramento. And I want to unpack it all.Because I you're creating a lot of video content. So I didn't let sneak talk yet. So let's go ahead and introduce a neat right here. And we're gonna lay this up because I want to get into specifically what's happened since you started creating a lot of content. And I want to talk about what's happened with brand and stage presence and all this other stuff. So can you tell everyone who's got your arms? They don't know yet. So I've been licensed for eight years, and I met you two years and my first real estate eventever. And it was really like pivotal. It was the night of the election and I met him and then like they're totally bug eyed and likelike I was hungry and I cornered everybody I said let me buy you a fucking drink beer for my Cuevas. You did let me buy you Let me buy you a beer dude. And let's sit down and talk about Dell or some shit. And let's let's sit there and talk through that journey. You know, like it's all the same stuff.that you always hear about. I listen to books, I immerse myself in education. You know, I was a labcoat agents like rat, you know really learned a lot there learned a lot from you, Mike. And you know, like, there was a time guys, I listened to every fucking podcast Mike had done at that point, back to back to back to back and I absorbed it all. And I did that every day. I quit listening to music. I started a team two years in my sixth year as a real as a licensed real estate agent. I was number fucking one in the state of California.Six years in, and now do I sound like I'm proud of that good, because I am. Right. Like, like, that was a big feat. And, you know, I was able to grow my business through relationships, something that Mike says all the time. Now I'm one of the you know, largest, or I have a huge coaching business. Now, I don't know where I rank, but top 10 For my coaching business, and I'm on a stage like, two times a month.Remember me on stage, bro is I get like nervous. And I used to be like, we used to ask me, Hey, do you want to speak like, for what? How am I gonna talk aboutthat. Now he's doing keynotes. But a lot of this is brand, right?Right. And people confuse what brand is like, Hey,folks, if you don't, you have to put yourself out there if you're gonna grow brand, and I don't believe you could grow brand without content or success. It's either one or the other, you either have something you've did, that's very impressive that everyone wants to know how you did it. Or you create a shitload of content. I don't care about your success or not. When you do a little bit of both, it just goes lights out, which is what's the needs doing. But let's start to the very beginning, I want to go through your recruiting quite a bit. You're building your team. You guys gotta remember when you're recruiting, you're also recruiting other buyers and sellers and clients too, because it's all the same thing. It's a giant popularity competition. Most people probably most of your clients probably don't even know you're creating recruiting content. They just see a real estate guy on video. And they're like, oh, shit, they for all? You know, for all they know, you're probably talking about interest rates.Yeah, well, I mean, we do have that content, too. I don't post that often. But yes, yes. I mean, it's just somebody sounding smart talking about something. Yep. And that's what video does, guys, it positions you as the expert whether or not you know what you're doing. Right. And the more of it you have, the more authority you grow. The more authority you have, the more people that listen to what the hell you say. And then the more people listen what you say the more conversations you're having them were compensated and more business leads to. So walk me through your strategy right now. What are you guys doing?What's your video strategy? Cuz I know you're cutting up a lot of short form, I want to go through short form and long form why short form right now?Sostrategy? Yeah, like, why are we? Why are you going so hard? It's short form right now. And what's it? Let's start. So you started off doing long form. And but you've adapted to know we still do long form we, I mean, we were doing remember five long form a week and it just brutal it just murdering everybody. And that's how I came into this. You were telling me to do content. And we did a years and years and content. And you showed me the ropes. Were sure and still helped us out still to this day. And we did do long form? five a week. And that's and you told me yo bro, that's up. And you're right. But I still did I go you're gonna burn yourself out on it. Yeah, well, I never got burned out. I don't know. But, but I want to go back to five days for the platform a week when nobody else does. So then, you know, shortform gets more and more popular. We started out with Instagram stories. We never fuck with Snapchat, tick tock and reels. And I saw a big opportunity with reels. And I mean, it's a bunch of talking heads with captions like it's getting messy. But you know what? Like, I got fucking what 2.5 million views on a video right now. What was the content on that? Talking about using Jasper? Interesting. Some don't You don't know like some people some videos that you would use the least the ones you expect? Go crazy. And the ones you think are gonna do? Well, don't you just don't know. You just gotta be consistent. What's it? How important is that?Oh, everything I post like, here's the thing. Do I have a big media team now? I have one due to the US. I work with my team. And I got it for vas. We also produce, you know, 20 to 30 pieces of content per day. I have probably 10 plus different platforms that we're pushing content to. I'm just about to start a whole nother brand for my mortgage company.For everything that's that we're doing so we're pushing all you know, like, so the team is producing that. I go to the gym every day, unless I'm traveling.Every day when I'm in between a setSo when I'm doing my warm up, do my warm up or walking over to the weights, I fucking grab one of my videos from my Monday board or my slack channel. And I personally write that little copy on my note bag, copy, paste, you know, sometimes I do it differently, but every morning from the gym, it's religious.Think before you go further doing enough, but go ahead. Before you go forward this is important is that so many people want you to post for me, I always tell them you can't outsource authenticity, you can't have someone post for you many times, it's a lot of times it's very hard to actually get track. Get success with that, because people know it's not you. Like you could just tell by the lead into the post and the content you're writing if you don't post your own stuff. I'm huge on that. Like, I hate when I can't have people post for me because it's like, I have some I'm one of them. I'm like my IG channel my gal will post for me, I'm like, What the fuck was that? I would never say that. Yeah, I mean, so for the, you know, for short form shore.Long Form I've let other people have some liberties with that sometimes. And on mybusiness pages across with four different brands, three different brands right now not Sunil Agarwal, but every other brand that we have instance for our Facebook pages forother people are doing those manual posts, which is fine because I mean, it's not necessarily my face, always but my personal page, which is by far my personal profile, my fucking normal Facebook page, folks, not some business page. When are people gonna get it through their mind? They got to spend money for anybody to see that shit. Right? Crazy 2022 Man, that's like, it's like, having a Facebook business page means absolutely nothing like congratulations.But like on my personal page 100% I turned my Instagram into a creator account. So I could have I could run ads off of it and get more insights. And I'm in my personal Instagram, too it's become a fucking goldmine.Now what what do youyour big pushes is building your team right now. Right? You got a lot of leverage. How is a recruiting play into this? And how do you attract other agents to come join you or see what you're doing and all the above? So, you know, I have I'm very fortunate to where you know, I have this tremendous coaching business with my mentor John Shep lac. So I'm very fortunate of that. And I also recruit and I want every agent in my MLS to hang their license under me in some capacity. Like that's the only goal are you doing it? All of them all of them not I want to present I want Bucky all of them right and coaching business because I really that's fulfilling for me.And how's recruiting going off ofhow is recruiting going on Instagram right now? Well, for people who are sitting at home, they may not be able to see this but I have a picture I have a picture from yesterday. Where is it? I don't know. There's a picture from yesterday that I have where my one of my recruiters says please send out these two contracts went through this one woman went to this one man we track the source guess what both sources were yesterday. IGInstagram Yeah.I like it. Now how are you reaching people though? Because like you just mentioned you have your organic reach and then you have your paid reach so for any broker owner that or team leader all you real and exp peoplelisten to what he's gonna say right like what he's gonna say right here so what why are you how are you getting these people? How are you reaching them? Are you running ads you uploading CSV list? Are you doing it?Soa bulk of all those results is organic, always from my consistency. So let me give everybody a little piece of free advice and you could always pay me if you want more advice I can send you the link after the call.We take American Express Visa and MasterCard yes gladly prefer not to take a max but I'll take it theYour first stepis organiccan consistently people always want to rush to spend money and hey, I used to be that guy and you know that there's still some money out there source of money at the organic will shit on the paid 99% of the time. Yep. The hard part is tell them why that is though. Before you go there tell them why that is organic will always outperform paid the vast majority time. Why is that? I think it's because people already know like and trust you and you're a celebritywellAll right and getting that out paid people see your little fucking sponsored ad in the left in the left corner. It still happens.Butorganic, always wins in every piece of business. And I kicked and screamed, always went for paid traffic always went for the paid solution.And organic. I'm finally realizing this now in my in my career, my history as a marketer. Novice to not pretty fucking professional, right? Is I always went paid fuck organic, I'll just cut I'll just cut the line. No, bro like organic wins. So paid strategy.As a matter of fact, depending on when this is published, I'm doing an event in two weeks where we talk about how to do our paid strategy, the growth mode mastermind.com, December 1 and second in Vegas, where we're going to sit in a workshop and actually build out all the campaigns that where I'm going next. And this is, this is the game changer for me. So if the listeners still aren't doing this, then I've stopped. I don't know what I'm telling you. So I pull every list.Everybody in my CRM, I use follow up boss.I think it's great. I transfer the people from follow up boss to through witley to Facebook Ads Manager, right Willie done that shout out to my boy grant wise.Regardless, I get the information, I get the data out of out of the CRM and enter Facebook. Right Whitley's, the easiest way to do that you do the manual should do if you got a bunch of time, I download the agent list.Right? And I also submitted a make that a Facebook audience. I have many other audiences. But I think those two is this where you start just to keep it easy for everybody. And then I'm going to run a couple of social media campaigns using Facebook Ads Manager, Instagram, and Facebook. And I am going to run them as engagement ads, optimizing for through plays. Andreally, you know, I might do like go to website but it's not a legion. Its engagement. Its brand awareness. It's actually video views. The trick with video views Mike and I wished we'd been doing this longer. And I'm sure you know, but for the good for the viewers.Back in the long form days, we would like water like retarget based on through plays, or somebody watched 25% of the video fucking amazing, right? But now when you got short form, like my amount of 2550 100% views is monstrous.So I need to build that audience. First is those video view audience at the same time at the same audience? I'm running static pictures. Like we're the best agents in town, that the best commission plans different ones for different campaigns. Are you are you running engagement on those two are that's a straight click decider conversion.engagement.Engagement, I want that that's the top of funnel shit which, right.And I'm also running another campaign, another two campaigns, testimonials for our consumers and testimonials bar. He doesn't do best 100% Those who do best but I want them in a different? Well, it's in a different ad set sometimes. Right? It's a different campaign sometimes. But I think it could be as the same. I just want there to be good mix. So what he's doing here, you guys he's he's creating content that gets more eyeballs on it, because he's he's setting up for the play action. So what's part two of this stunning? The part two? Is that conversion? Yep. So and I'd be curious to what what you think about this is now that we're running short form, and we're getting so many longer views? Do you still do 25%? Or do you go like, I could have a great audience of people who watch the whole fucking video sometimes on an 18 second video. So I'm I don't know what the what, here's where I get selfish on the podcast episode is what do you do for video views? Like what what likeI have, so it's a good point. So like, here's one of the things that that like I see on some on our videos, the shorter the video, the higher the view content just because of the watch time that gets pushed through the algorithm. So like it's like, against if you're going on short form, it's actuallymore likely not I won't say hurting all videos good, but it's hurting you more than if less if I were to post a 62nd video versus a 10 second video, I guarantee that 10 second video, just way outperforms the 62nd because it's all based on the consumption of the content. So what's the nits? doing here is these is where like explain this is like think of like football play action pass. Right and really what we're doing in actionbucking play action pass. Well, we gotta get we got it. We got it. I thought you said you're in the gym. I thought you know some of these analogies by now. Yes, yeah. Yeah, so play action. Let me let me just do get elementary here for Mr. Nan sporto here Sunnitea play action as you set up in football, they set up the run, they do a handoff, handoff, handoff, three in a row, and they run the same play just to set up the past so that the defense bites in on it. So it's no different. This is content marketing one on one guys, you create a lot of content, and the people that start watching it are raising their hands for you to sell them their shit. That's why it's like a one two approach. So in the play auction, you get them to bite on the run. So you could open up the paths in the same case with this is that we're creating a lot of content up front was creating a lot of engagement and he's doing it on consumption because the people that are consuming more of his content are more likely to engage in React to him. And what he's really doing is case that casting out a wide net of people raising their hands. Part two, he's going in for the killer the past and he's gonna score a touchdown. Now he can pitch them their stuff because they already have an idea what what he does for a living because that's sort of what you're getting so yes, but I'm so I'm curious as part to a lead magnet or schedule a call. It could be any of the above I've been having a lot of success running five different retargeting campaigns once testimonials once frequently asked questions, once pricing once how it works. And the ones that chose different ads in the same ad for different videos and the same ad set, all running and rotating in between. And they're just objection handlers. They're the same videos that should be on the core pages of your website. Andkeep going, Okay, well, no, then so then you're on, you're getting the video views off of those off of those ads. So there's, I have a couple trains of thought on this. I haven't been running, I'm running. I have a different here's, here's my personal opinion. I'm going to try. I'm not running engagement on my first run. I'm running website clicks. And the reason why I'm running website clicks is because people actually click off Facebook are more interested in what I have to say than not. Yes, I'll have a higher targeted list. No, the cold list. No, it's targeted.Hard good. We're getting really geeky on this. All right. Everyone's like oh, we might have to mastermind about this but after but here's the point guys is that you have to what's your building an audience right? And the more people whether they're agents or consumers that know it's a neat does, the more opportunities he's gonna have. That's I mean, that's it. It's a popularity contest at the end of the day. Now Sunday let's just go let's just retract this let's just pretend you never got on video before and mean you're having a one on one consultation right now and I'm trying to talk you into getting on video What do you think the difference is with your brand right now and your successwhat if you were let's say you never did video before how big of an impact has it made you think you're huge Are you kidding me? No, I wouldn't be anywhere recruiting business coaching none of it when firms someone first meet you what's the first impression? Oh I seem is Do you feel that different? I fucking see you everywhere dude. Yes. And what does that mean you were what there have soldmost times they already know like and trust me do like like they are they are ready when an agent comes in they just want to say oh well let you know that I see you everywhere I say I know you're supposed toquit clicking on my shitwhyI lost my train of thought let me think about let me think back about that. But when your agents are coming in to the office like that difference in like positioning is huge guys like I people like I've been running a lot of ads like I'm in middle in between some services and some recreation of my own but same thing like when people come in or do I see you everywhere it's the first thing that people say I see you ever I see you everywhere and it's such an easy attention getter but why why what struggles people from doing this because mean you talking about this like you hear your mentor Chuck black talk about it grant why he's talking about everyone in their mothers like get on video get on video, but less of like one or 2% of agents are actually doing it. What the hell's the whole day? What are your agents say?For me, too, it's so good. We'll be I'm Chris our content guy here. We're a look. You can count fucking film a video every day for free. Trust me, we don't have much left to say anymore. Right? Like, we're like past that.Oh, great. They even sign up but they don't show up. 100%And the biggest thing I went to people going How long did it take you to start seeing results cuz that's also the biggest hurdle is like people think that it's instant. Like instant credibility. It's like no, dude, this takes three to six months to start building but and that's if you're doing a pretty damn good job at it. But it's the long play you guys you have to work on your business, not necessarily in it. Why do real estate agents need Instagram?vacations so much. I have my own opinion. But why do they have to feel like they're getting leads? Because the reality is that a real estate agent would rather buy 300 leads that they'll never call, then start doing a bunch of videos that 300 of their friends commented on. And no one understood why I was that guy. You we had this conversation, folks, I always knew video was important. And I did little half assed and Mikesell Dude, what the fuck are you doing you guys, your listeners to this podcast? joining the club. Me too. But you got to start listening to what these people say. Like I don't know why why people need instant gratification. I remember my my my mom be explaining that to me when I probably did something bad, right? LikeI mean, he'll look. I want to make money now. I also want to make money tomorrow. And the more shit I can do today, that makes me money tomorrow, well, then a fuck. Good. I'm still making money now just have that mindset, bro. Like,I don't know, I don't think I don't think a lot of people know what it feels like to be cracked. When will when you be a lot of opportunities, I sure have come your way out of the content you're creating, like, that's the best part is like, when you start creating, we have people all the time that get picked up on the news. They get pitched forassaulting every fucking day to like I, you know, like six coaching calls today and get opened another business. And it got approached by another business with a seat with a route with a celebrity, like a TV star in real estate today, right. And we had other ships. So it's everything compounds. And it's just the you know, like I was listening to Hermoza yesterday. And he's all and I've been saying this to like, as the marketchanges. I want insulation. And attention is my fucking installation. And I can control the amount of Yes, I can control the amount of attention I get by doing the damn work. Do I spend money on it? Yeah, but not a lot. I don't have to I use the big view free app or a puppet VSL I did this week. With a big view in the corner. I don't give a fuck, right. And so what what her mosey said was attention is the new oil. Yes. And dude, he's he's right. Like, it's the, it is harder and harder to get. And there is a limited amount and you gotta fucking dig for it. Let's go through ROI on video. It's the biggest pet peeve like how's this gonna pay off? Like, let me just give you guys a real simple formula. Tell me if you agree with us? How's this video gonna pay off? Well, let's just not say let's do 100 videos this year, let's just say let's do eight videos a month, it's a lot more easier for us to get our head around that. Now, if you were to do eight videos a month and you're able to post all of those eight videos on IG Facebook reels, IG reels, tick tock YouTube shorts and just that's just short form content. And you were to do eight months and eat what would be the number of total views, you would anticipate me having to throw a number out there? It doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. Oh god. 40,000 Okay, now of those 40,000 views 20,000 college 20,000 I will say, let's say 20,000. So of those 20,000 views, okay, let's say that they're divided up between, let's say 800 people.Of those 800 people 10 to 15% of them are moving this year and 100% of them have a referral for you. Yeah, this is mathematical guys. This isn't theory that we're talking about. It's just that 80 plus percent of them are going to hire the first one they think of or meet with. I was doing a stat the other day and everyone's like, Oh, I'm gonna go up against so many agents in a listing presentation. Guess how many sellers actually interviewed more than two agentsdo like not a lot less than 1% Guess how many sellers interviewed it knows three or more. It was like 3% Enter interview two and over 80% of AD AD to any foreign in 79% of sellers at different age brackets hired the first day in person they met with so when sneetches said is gold guys he says attention is the new oil 100% It is because without that attention you don't get the opportunity to pitch your shit somebody else does. Yes and there's all that you can control like just get startedon a percent sunny love it dude, any closing thoughts you have for people that are contemplating because right now people are like dude, sales are down. I don't want to reinvest in my business. I'm just gonna go sit in a closet and hide what's your rebuttal? Go get another go. I mean, I'm sure that target is hiring for Christmas alpha at this point.They are. That's the reality of the situation in the market. You guys. This is the time to get loud just know that the majority of your competition is quiet. Mike, every time we log on social media do you see my face? Yeah, I see you on Tik Tok like I every morning when I post I do the same thing. You're at the gym. I'm like usually in between changing a diaper some but when I do that, I post my short in the morningAnd, and just that 15 minutes it takes me 1015 minutes a day and every time I do your faces the first damn thing I see.It's hilarious, but dude, you're fucking crushing it. Congrats on all your success and also like, something that I was missing out on when I wasn't making enough normal posts on Insta and Facebook. So this week I'm trying to do two or three a day. And I tell people omnipresence. Kristen asked me four years ago, what's your Word of the Year? I said fucking omnipresence. I know that Grant Cardone Bo book, and I want people to choke on my face, bro. Right? You got it. You can't escape me. Yeah, I want all that attention, all of it. And if you're not doing that, you better be good at something. I don't know.Yeah, my phone rings with opportunities, from the content that I make. Opportunities like getting to be on this great podcast was such a badass Mike Cuevas. I don't know if you guys need anything. Hit me up on Instagram, Sydney, underscore ADRA wall 916 my website. Sign up if you prefer my list, Sydney, Dagara wall.com We got a bunch of tools I use on there was some good deals. And, you know, catch me on social. Just engage with him any which way and he'll start following you around every place you freaking go. And then you'll see how it works. And then just a matter of you putting in an action, folks, thank you very much for listening to this week's episode. We'll see you guys next week. Don't overthink the content creation thing is very simple. Just start doing it. And you'll get better as you go. If I would have told you what Sydney looked like the first couple of videos that he shot, you would probably laugh.I almost want to get the very first one that you did out there because he wasn't nervous at first. But dude, this is how everybody knows it's not hard. It's new. But you just get used to it and become second nature. So Don't Quit letting your own self get in your own way. Start creating content. You should make a post of that first video.Actually, I think I might do that. That's a really good idea. Actually, we're gonna do that when we hang up this podcast. So thank you folks. Make it real. All right, we'll see you guys next week. Thank you for watching another episode of the real estate marketing dude podcast. If you need help with video or finding out what your brand is, visit our website at WWW dot real estate marketing dude.com We make branding video content creation simple and do everything for you. So if you have any additional questions, visit the site, download the training, and then schedule a time to speak with the dude and get you rolling in your local marketplace. Thanks for watching another episode of the podcast. We'll see you next time.

Libby Azzarello joins us in today's episode to chat about relationship-building strategies to make real estate easy and fun for your clients. She also tells a story about a bizarre home with doll-themed rooms, an inflatable palm tree, and a miniature piano. So tune in!   Key takeaways to listen for What you need to know to be a good REALTOR® The importance of having a solid real estate foundation Modern strategies to make real estate more enjoyable for your clients Reasons you should build positive relationships with your customers Why the pandemic was the ideal time to sell buyer-specific properties   Resources mentioned in this episode MLS.com Marriage or Mortgage Artkive   About Libby Azzarello Libby is a Real Estate Broker at Coldwell Banker Howard Perry and Walston. She grew up in the real estate industry, and at a young age, she was taken by the networking and sales process. She has 8 years of combined experience in marketing, public relations, digital/social media strategy, and Real Estate technology. Through her experience with Disney, Chevrolet, and Bright MLS, she has built a strong foundation of customer service, strategy, and creative skills that help her exceed client expectations.   Connect with Libby Website: At Home with Libby Instagram: @athomewithlibby LinkedIn: Libby Azzarello Email: libby@athomewithlibby.com Phone Number: 919-455-6228   Connect with Leigh Please subscribe to this podcast on iTunes or the Podcasts App on your phone, and never miss a beat from Leigh by visiting https://leighbrown.com. DM Leigh Brown on Instagram @ LeighThomasBrown. Subscribe to Leigh's other podcast Real Estate From The Rooftops   Sponsors Follow Up Boss Start your free, all-access trial today. There's no credit card required. For a limited time, Follow Up Boss is doubling the free trial for CSIRE listeners—that's a full 30 days to see how Follow Up Boss helps you close more deals. LINK: Followupboss.com/crazy Instagram: @followupboss Facebook Page: Follow Up Boss Website: https://www.fubcon.com/ #followupboss   Leigh Brown University – New On-Demand TrainingHow to Dominate During This Recession! Enroll Now to get ahead of the curve and learn how to manage changing markets, the action steps for what to do, and most importantly, what to say so that you can secure listings, assist more buyers, and grow your business no matter what the market is doing. Link: http://dominatethisrecession.com

Interest rates are soaring today across the country. Smart investors are using master lease options to acquire property now more than ever before. So, what exactly is a master lease option, and how can I use this investing strategy to acquire property?  Master lease options allow you to control commercial property like apartment buildings, storage facilities, etc., and then buy them at a specified time in the future. You can generally do this with no money down. Bill Walston is one of the most sought-after business and tax strategists in the real estate investing community. He has been an active real estate investor for nearly four decades as well as an author, mentor, and coach. His passion is teaching and creating strategies that help real estate investors do more deals, make more money, and live a tax-deductible lifestyle. Key Highlights: [00:01 - 07:52] Opening Segment • An overview of the benefits of using master lease options • Bill's background and work A business and tax strategist in the real estate investing community His passion to help investors do more deals and make more money [07:53 - 15:23] How to Buy a Property with a Motivated Seller • How sellers have different motivations for selling Find out their motivation for selling and what the net operating income is • A typical master lease option term is five years, and the option can be exercised at any time during that period   [15:24 - 22:49] How to Analyze a Property for a Master Release Option Projection • The key points for analyzing a property to do a projection are getting the numbers from the seller Understanding their financials, and projecting rents • The average expenses for a property are usually 35-45% of the income [22:50 - 32:31] Closing Segment • Why banks are not typically willing to finance multifamily deals • How to use master lease options and creative finance when interest rates soar • The importance of determining your investing criteria Want to connect with Bill? Follow him on Facebook, or email him at bill@billwalston.com. Be sure to grab Bill's freebie, “The MLO Process”. Resources Mentioned: Here are some sources for finding multi-family properties: ·      http://loopnet.com  ·      http://listsource.com  ·      http://cimls.com  ·      http://cityfeet.com  Key Quotes: "The first thing you have to do, regardless of whatever type of investing you're going to do, is to determine your investing criteria." - Bill Walston "With the master lease option method, you can take over property control, and the cash flow, and increase the value of that property without having to own the property itself." - Bill Walston WANT TO LEARN MORE? Connect with me through my website, Instagram, and LinkedIn Or you can send me an email at sharon@sharonvornholt.com  Be sure to check out the Louisville Gals Real Estate Blog and my course Probate Investing Simplified. Learn more about this podcast on iTunes, or Stitcher. If you liked my show, please LEAVE AN HONEST REVIEW, like, and subscribe!

 Bios:Ernest Gray Jr. is the pastor of Keystone Baptist Church located in the West Garfield Park neighborhood of Chicago.  He is a graduate of the Moody Bible Institute with a degree in Pastoral Ministries, and a graduate of Wheaton College with a Master's Degree in Biblical Exegesis.  He completed his PhD coursework at McMaster Divinity College and is currently completing his thesis within the corpus of 1 Peter. Mr. Gray has taught in undergraduate school of Moody in the areas of Hermeneutics, first year Greek Grammar, General Epistles, the Gospel of John and Senior Seminar. It is Mr. Gray's hope to impact the African American church  through scholarship. Teaching has been one way that God has blessed him to live this out.  Ernest is also co-host of the newly released podcast Just Gospel with an emphasis upon reading today's social and racial injustices through a gospel lens. www.moodyradio.org    Jen Oyama Murphy  "My love of good stories led me to Yale University where I received a BA in English. Upon graduation, I felt called to bring individual stories into relationship with the Gospel Story, and I have worked in the areas of campus and church ministry, lay counseling, and pastoral care since 1989. Over the years, I sought a variety of ongoing education and training in the fields of psychology and theology, including graduate classes at The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology and Benedictine University. I also completed the Training Certificate and Externship programs at The Allender Center, and I previously held roles on their Training and Pastoral Care Team, as Manager of Leadership Development, and most recently as the Senior Director of The Allender Center. Believing that healing and growth happens in the context of relationship, I work collaboratively to create a safe coaching space of curiosity and kindness where honesty, care, desire, and imagination can grow. Using my experience and expertise in a trauma-informed, narrative-focused approach, I seek to help people live the story they were most meant for and heal from the ones they were not. I am passionate about personal support and development, particularly for leaders in nonprofit or ministry settings, including lay leaders who may not have a formal title or position. I'm especially committed to engaging the personal and collective stories of those who have felt invisible, marginalized, and oppressed. I love facilitating groups as well as working individually with people. I currently live in Chicago with my husband, and we have two adult daughters.Rebecca Wheeler Walston lives in Virginia, has completed  Law School at UCLA, holds a Master's in Marriage and Family Counseling, is also a licensed minister. Specializing in advising non-profits and small businesses. Specialties: providing the legal underpinning for start-up nonprofits and small businesses, advising nonprofit boards, 501c3 compliance, creating and reviewing business contracts.TJ PoonDr. Ernest Gray (00:41:40):Absolutely. Absolutely. There will be stories told in the next five, no, two or three years now about, this is the fascinating thing I'm trying to wrap my mind around is that it is this, I need to do a more research upon the Ukrainian Russian thing wherein you have, um, my ignorance, you have an apparent Eastern European, you have, uh, you know, have an eastern European kind of, this isn't anything about pigment autocracy, but culturally, I'm op I'm opposed to you because you have Russian descent, and I'm a Ukrainian descent. So upon the, upon the outside, it's not anything that has to do with the, with the merits of, of, of, uh, racial, racial, a racialized racialization. It has more to do with the cultural, um, ethnicity kind of, um, indicatives that create this hostility between the two. And to hear the atrocities that are ongoing right now against, you know, each o against the, the Ukrainian Russian conflict, right now, we're gonna hear about those things and, and, and hear just how egregious they are or whether it's the, um, the tusks and the Hutus in the Rwandan conflict, or whether it's the Bosnians versus the, um, the Serbians. I mean, there's gonna be a lot of that. There's, we, we find that these things occur, um, and that, and that it's, it's all because of these notions of superiority and, and tools of the enemy in order to, to, to divide and conquer. Um, and then coupled with power create, you know, devastating effects. I, I I, I, I think that there's a, um, there's a, there's a, the, the collectivist idea of seeing us all in the same boat with various facets is something that we need to strive. It's not easy to always to do. Um, but it's gotta happen. If we're going to create a, a better human, if we're not creative, if the Lord is gonna work in a way to, to help us, uh, move toward a better humanity, one that is at least honoring may not happen in our lifetime, may not happen until we see the Lord face to face. But at the same time, that's the work that we're, I'm called to is to be, uh, or, you know, to, to be the embodiment of some type of re repa posture, um, modeling for others what it could look like. Danielle (00:44:19):Sure. Yeah. Um, Rebecca and I put this in here, Hurt versus harm. Um, hurt being, and, and again, these, these are definitions coming from us, so I recognize that other people may have a different view and we can talk about that. Um, hurt being in, in, when Rebecca and I were talking about it inevitable in any relationship may cause painful feelings and hurt someone's feelings. Um, harm violating a person's dignity, and it takes energy non consensually from someone So how do individual hurts add to or cement structural power structures and our perspective and experience of harm? How do individual hurts add to or cement structural power structures and our perspective and experience of, of them? Dr. Ernest Gray (00:45:31):Yeah. Um, it's cuz you've got muscle memory hurt, um, over and over and over and over and over of sorts provides a muscle memory, a knee jerk, a kind of , Oh, this is familiar, here we go again. Ow. So I think that's one way, I'll, I'll step back now, but I think that, that it's the body that maintains a powerful memory of the feeling and it feels, and it's gonna be a familiar kind of triggering slash re-injury that until it's interrupted, can create, can see this as, um, broadly speaking, a a, a more, um, yeah, a reoccurring thing that is, that needs to be interrupted. TJ Poon(00:46:27):I'm really mindful of this in my relationships because there's a lot of horror from white people, from white women towards different communities. And so, like in my relationships, you, there's a, there's a mindfulness of like, maybe we have a disruption and at the level of me and this other person, it is a hurt, but it, it reinforces a harm that they've experienced or it feels like, um, feels similar to. And so it's not like we, I it's not like we opt, we can opt out. Like it can't opt out of that collective narrative. I can't say, Oh, well I'm just, you know, this one person. Um, so I, I think that is complex because the individual hurts do contribute. They feel like what Dr. Gray was saying, like it is muscle memory. It's some sometimes where something can feel or just reinforce, I guess, um, what has already happened to us in contexts. Jen Oyama Murphy (00:47:36):I mean, I think the complexity of the relationship between hurt and harm, um, contributes to how hard it can be to actually have meaningful repair. Because I, my experience sometimes, and I, I know I do this myself, that I will lean into the hurt and apologize or try to do repair on a personal one to one level and somehow feel like if I do that, it will also, it also repairs the harm. And that doesn't, that's, that's not true. I mean, it can perhaps contribute to a restorative process or a repair process around the harm, but Right. Just me, um, in charge of a small group repairing for a particular hurt that may have happened in the small group doesn't necessarily address the structure, the system that put that small group together, the content that's being taught, you know, the, the opportunity for those participants to even be in the program, Right. That there is something that's happening at a, at a harm level, um, that my personal apology for something that I did that hurt someone in the group isn't actually addressing. But we can hope that it does or act like it does or even have the expectation, um, that it will. And so the, I love the new, the nuance or the, the clarity between the two definitions that you guys are, um, asking us to wrestle with. I think that's, that's good's making me think just for myself. Like where do I go first, you know, out of my own, um, training or naivete or just like wishful thing, thinking that, that I can't repair systemic harm by apologizing or repairing like a personal hurt. Danielle (00:49:36):Um, I mean, Jen, I've been wrestling with that and, and when I, when I, in my experience, when someone apologizes to me, and I know they're apologizing for personal hurt, but I feel like they haven't said in, in, in a way I can understand often I'm not understanding how do I actually get out of this so we're not pitted against each other again. Mm-hmm. , when I feel trapped in that space and I receive an apology, I often, I, I feel more angry even at, even if I know the person sincerely apologizing, if I'm telling a more true story to you all as a Latinx person, and I've noticed this in my family, I receive the apology, and yet when I have to continue to function in the system, I am more angry afterwards. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , there's a frustration that happens, which then of course is bottled down and it, I often talk to my clients about this, but I was talking to my husband about it. It's like we threw all this stuff in the pressure cooker cuz we do a lot of pressure cooking and put a plastic lid on it. And now the s h I t spread sideways. And that's kind of how it feels when we, now I'm not saying we can do this perfectly or I even know how to do it, but when we address hurt, that's part of systemic harm without addressing the system. I think in my experience, it feels like I'm feeling my own pressure cooker mm-hmm. and I'm not able to contain the spray at different times. Mm-hmm. . Dr. Ernest Gray (00:51:20):Yeah. I think I think about for, I think about for me, the, my, my the, you know, systemizing, systematizing the way in which I associate things, what the right environment, the way in which my, you know, my senses have associated things. I'll have dejavu because I had a certain smell from my childhood and it'll, it could be triggering, right? I smell something and I'm like, Oh man, that reminds me of this moment. All that categorization to me tells me how my brain functions and how mm-hmm. associative. Mm-hmm. , it is for instances, smells, places, um, things that occur. And it's, it's the, it's the ongoing sense of that, especially if we've come out of, um, houses or, um, families where this was it, it was normative for us to experience these things on a regular basis so that any, any hint of it elsewhere outside of that, outside of the confines of that can reignite that same kind of shallow breathing and response. And I don't wanna, um, but, but definitely the advancing of hurt versus harm. It, it, it, the harm the those in whatever that instance is that creates, that, that response outta me lets me know that more that it is, it was the ongoing nature of those things which created the harm. Um, and so it almost asks, I it's first acknowledgement and then secondly saying, What do I need to do to take care of myself in this instance? Where do I need to go? What do I need to give myself in this moment so that I'm not going down this road of, here we go again. I'm in a corner . I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna kind of check out. But, um, I think about the west side of Chicago where I'm ministering, um, and I'm thinking about, you know, just this community that it doesn't really affect them. It, it really doesn't to hear gunshots, to hear, um, to hear, uh, sirens and things like that. These are everyday occurrence so that the, so that the, so that the ongoing nature of what they're used to just has evolved into this kind of numbing sense. But I, but I guess in going back, it is interrupting that, that delicate, um, sequence of events so that it does not cause me to shut down in that moment that I've, that I'm still learning how to do for myself. Right. And I think that in our interpersonal relationships, especially, here's where it meets the road, is in our interpersonal, or even our most intimate relationships, the ongoing hurt and does eventually, uh, you know, cross the line into harm because it has taken away the energy out of that, out of the other person, uh, or or out of us. Um, after such a long time after repeated, repeated instances. Rebecca W. Walston (00:54:31):I, I think what I think I'm hearing everybody alludes this sense of like, can there be an awareness of, of the, where the interpersonal and the individual kind of collides with the collective and the systemic, right? And, and just a more complex understanding of how any incident, however big or small the rupture is. Where is the interplay of those two things? So, so that a comment between two people can actually have this impact that's far more and reverberates with the kind of generational familiarity that that all of a sudden, it, it, it, it, um, we're, we're out of the category. My feelings are hurt and into this space of it feels like something of in me has been violated. Um, and I think it takes a, an enormous amount of energy and awareness on the part of both people, both the person who perpetrated something and the person who was on the receiving end of that, to have a sense of like where they are and where they are and where the other person is to kind of know that and build all to hold it, um, with some integrity. There was a point in which we brought a group of people, uh, to, to view the equal justice initiative, um, landmarks in Montgomery, Alabama, and the conversation and a processing conversation between a white woman and a black woman. And, you know, after having come from the, the National Memorial and Peace and Justice and witnessing the history of lynching, understandably, this black woman was deeply angry, like profoundly angry, um, and trying to manage in the moment what that anger was and, and, and turned to the white participant and said like, I, like I'm really angry at you. Like, I kind of hate you right now. Mm-hmm. , um, two people who are virtually strangers. Right. And, and, and, and for the white woman to have said to her a sense of like, um, I get it. I got it. I'm, I'm white and I'm a woman.And there's a sense in which historically white women called this particular place in the lynching of black bodies mm-hmm. . Um, and also can, can I be in this room in the particularity of my individual story and know that I personally, Right. Um, don't, don't agree with that, stand against it, have not participated actively in it. Kind of a sense of like, you know, and it may have been an imperfect or, or generous engagement, but you can hear the tension of like, how can we both be in this room and hold the collective historical nature of this? And the particularity of the two individuals in the room together hadn't actually been the active participant interrupter. So Yeah. I think it's hard and messy. Danielle (00:57:51):I, I love what, uh, Rebecca wrote. There was, you know, been talking to me about do we imagine Shalom as a return to where we started? Cause the very nature of the disrupt disruption being we cannot return from Eden to the city of God. Um, and Rebecca, I'll let you elaborate on that a little bit more, but when we were talking Rebecca and I, you know, as a mixed race woman, and in those mixes, you know, is indigenous and Spanish and African, and, you know, just this mix, I'm like, where would I return to? Right? Mm-hmm. , what community does a Latinx person returned to? If, if it's a return to Eden, where is, is Eden lost? And so, um, yeah, Rebecca, I don't know if you wanna expand on what you were thinking. Rebecca W. Walston (00:58:43):Uh, I mean, I I've just been wrestling with this in particular, you know, we talk about individual hurt. It's easy to talk about like the disruption that happened in Eden, that what God meant for me individually, what you know, is reflected in the Garden of Eden. The kind of peace and the kind of generosity and the kind of, um, uh, just more that, that is in the Garden of Eden. And, but when I, when I try and so, so there's a depend in which I can step into this work and have this individual sense of like, Oh, you know, I wasn't meant for the fracture and my relationship between myself and my parents, Right? I was meant for something that was more whole than that. So how do I, how do I have a sense of what that was like in Eden, and how do I have a sense of going back to that kind of, that kind of space? But when I translate that into like collective work around racial trauma, I get lost like Danielle, right? In this, this sense that like, um, in, in her book, Born On the Water, um, the author sort of makes this argument that though these African people got on the ship at the beginning in Africa, while they made the journey across the Atlantic and before they landed in the United States, something happened on the water. And there's something in that hyphenated existence that created a new people group in, in a way that like, I can't actually go back to Africa. I like, I can't, I mean, I will go there and for half a second somebody might mistaken me for a, a colored person, right? And if you're inside Africa, that means I'm not fully African. I'm not fully white, I'm somewhere in the middle. But the second I open my mouth, they, they know I'm not African. I'm something else, right? And there's a sense in which I can't actually go back to Eden. There, there's something that happened in the rupture and the displacement that actually makes it impossible for me to return for that, right? And, and I still have that sense of being displaced in the hyphenated existence in the US that makes me, in some ways not fully American either. So what, what is the answer to that? And as I started to wrestle with that theologically, you know, I'm looking at the text going, actually, the, the journey for the Christian is not back to Eden . Like the end game is not back to Genesis, it's to revelation in the city of God. And so that's my sense of this comment is like, do do I pivot and start to imagine repair as not a return to Eden, but onto something else? And, and, and, um, you know, then I begin to suspect that, uh, that, that there's something even in the journey of, of that, that that is a far more value to me that I would want more than just the return to Eden. There's something sweeter having made it onto the city of God. So this is my wonderings. Curious how, how that hits for any of you. Dr. Ernest Gray (01:02:09):I think the, I think you're spot on. And I guess I, I guess it's a maturity mark that says that this continuum, this, this, um, I think you get to a certain and you just realize you never really arrive. And I think this fits within that same conceptual framework of like, you know, hey , you know, you, you could reach the pinnacle of your career. And, um, and yet, you know, it's still not be ultimately satisfying because it's like, is that it? You know, I think I'm on top of the mountain and I, and I guess that's the, that's inherent of human, of human of humanness for me is that I'm, I'm, I'm resigned to thinking about completion and absolute perfection. I'll be perfected when I meet Jesus. They'll be the more work for me to do or work in me to be done. But in the meantime, um, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna be striving, blowing it, striving, um, gaining some, you know, gaining some, um, some skills and learning how to navigate better life and figuring out what works and doesn't work any, uh, as I go, as I age, as I, and hopefully in growing wisdom. Um, but I, I like this idea because there's a sense of, of jettisoning your experiences as though they're irrelevant. No, they're what brought me to this place and they're what's propelling me forward. Um, there's this sense of I might as well give them a hug and bring them with me on the journey, uh, because then they create a sense of meaning and value for me and for those of, uh, you know, for me, uh, as I'm, as I'm making my progress through, through life. So, so, so, um, that to me shows marks of, uh, a sense of maturity and, you know, some restore some restoration. I think, you know, and, and again, it comes down to like this sense of like, you know, the things that have value for us are can, can be worn. You know, Like, my son's got a got, you know, a favorite stuffed animal that is horrible. I wanna wash it every time I see it. You know, it's just like, we get rid of this thing. No, it's just, there's something about this particular stuffed animal that I just cannot part ways with. And so that's, that's kind of how we don't wanna get rid of our vinky or you know, our blanky, whatever it is. We got . Cause we love itself. , TJ Poon (01:04:53):I was really moved when I read this slide and listened to Rebecca and Danielle talking, I think, um, so I named my daughter Eden. And, you know, the, the meaning of pleasure, delight, just that, that the nature of what we were meant for. And in the end, we find it in the city full of people that look like us and not like us. And the image of that is represented there. And just kind of that shifting from like, our delight is found in this garden where it's just as in God, um, to our delight is in this city and, you know, the lamb of God is their light. All these different images that are really powerful and revolution, I think about that. Like that, that has meaningful too. Uh, just a shifting, um, where is our, where is our pleasure? Where is our delight? How do we come to experience that shaone? And who are the people that we experience that through? Dr. Ernest Gray (01:05:53):That's huge. And I, and I, yeah, and I, it's those people that are really part of that, you know, that space for us, that that really kind of helps us to, you know, experience the full, the sum, the full sum of what shalom means for us. I think that that's really important for us to really, for me especially to, to not shy away from that because I, I I, I, my ma my natural inclination would be to just be very isolated and monastic as opposed to engaged in community . But it's experienced in community and it's experienced together, and it's experienced with other shattered people too. Right. Um, and that to me is where I draw strength and energy and, um, you know, peace from as well. So, thank you, tj. I think yours mm-hmm. , I like what you share there. Danielle (01:06:57):I, I guess I would add like, to that, like, I think so much of my experience is being like in this very moment when I feel joy or maybe shalom or a sense of heaven, even in the moment, because unaware of what, I'm always not aware of what will come next. I don't know. Um, yeah. So just the feeling of heaven is in this moment too, with, you know, in the moment that I get to sit with the four of you, this is a piece of heaven for me, a reflection of hope and healing. Although we haven't even explored the ways we might have, you know, rubbed each other the wrong way. I have a sense that we could do that. And in that sense, that feels like heaven to me in spaces where there could, there are conflict. I'm not saying there isn't just a, just, I think in my own culture, the, that's why Sundays feel so good to me. For instance, when I'm with a couple of other families and we're eating and talking and laughing and, you know, the older kids are playing with the younger kids, like, to me, that feels, oh, that feels good. And, and if, if that was the last thing I felt, I would, that would feel like heaven to me. So I, I think there's also that, I'm not saying we're not going to the city of God, but there's just these momentary times when I feel very close to what I think it, it might mean. Mm-hmm. , Rebecca W. Walston (01:08:41):I, I do think, Danielle, I mean, I resonate with what you're saying. I think, I think the text is very clear that there are these moments, um, along the way. Right? I think that's that sense of, yay, do I walk through the valley of the shadow, Right? I, I will be with you. I, I think like wherever you are in the process, along the journey, the moments where you have a sense of, um, I am with you always. Right? And however that shows up for you in a faith, in a person, in a smile and an expression, in deed, whatever, however that shows up, it definitely, like, if I, I do have a sense of like, things we pick up along the way and, and a sense of final destination all being a part of the, the, the healing, the, like, the journey of repair. Um, and, and I start to think about, um, You know, the story of Joseph is a very significant one to me, has very reflected my own story, and then, then will know what that reference means, um, to me in particular by, you know, the, the sense in, in Joseph of like, what sad to meant for evil, God meant for good, right? And the sense of him naming his two sons, Manas and Efram, and one of them, meaning God has caused me to forget the toilet of my father's house. Um, and God has caused me to prosper in the land of my infliction is the meaning of the other son. And so I do think that there's, there's something in the text even that, that is about the journey and the destination being sweeter and holding something more, um, that than had our, our soul existence only been in Eden, Right? I mean, and, and that isn't to say like, I don't wish for that, you know what I mean? Or that I wouldn't love to be there, but, but I, but I mean like, leave it only to God to, to assert this idea that like, um, all of the rupture holds something more, um, that than life without any, without there ever being any sense of rupture. Right? And I think we're in the category of like, the mysteries of God by I, I think. I think so I think there's, there's such value in the journey in the valleys and what we pick up there about ourselves and God and people in it with us. Um, you know, Yeah. Like that, that feels aspirational to me and also feels true in some senses. You're muted, Ernest. I can't, can't hear you. So I said Dr. Ernest Gray (01:11:33):I was low, I was very low when I said that resonates. I, um, I was thinking about, um, you know, for me in the last few years, you know, Covid has done a, has done an, an immeasurable service in many ways. It has been incredibly harmful for a lot of us, but it's been a, it's done an immeasurable service at the same time, um, to reorient us. Um, for me it is increased my, depend my creaturely dependence on God in a way that here to four I would not have been focused upon. Right? I, you know, I spent 12, 13 years in the, in, in the classroom as a professor teaching, uh, on autopilot, um, from God's word, from, um, and teaching students how to study and think and what, what these words in the Bible say and what they could potentially mean, um, to the best of my ability. But that was autopilot stuff. And I felt insulated, if you will. But, but the repair and the why of the repair, why it's important, why, why the, um, the rupture is necessary, and we can call I, I, I would call covid and the time prior to, and subsequent to be very rupturing, I, I would call it as necessary, because it helped me to see my why and why dependence upon God had it be reframed, refocused, re you know, recalibrated so that I could not, so I could get out of a sense of, um, oh, my training prepared me for this to know my, you know, what I am and who I, what my journey has been, did not prepare me for this, and all the attendant features that have come as a result, the relationships that are broken and realizing that they were jacked up from a long , they were jacked up. I just couldn't see them during all those years. Um, but these remind me of the need for God to be embodied, uh, in my life in a way that, um, I had been maybe not as present with. And I think that that's part of the reason why, um, this is my re my why for repair, is that it creates a better, more relational dynamic between me and God that had I not gone through some rupturing event, I would not have appreciated the value of where I'm at with him now. More than that. I think one other thing is that I think that there's a sense too that there's a, um, there's a heightened awareness of all these other aspects that are coming, that are coming about. My eyes are now not as with, you know, blinders on. Now I can look around and say, Wow, this is a really jacked up place. Where can I help to affect some change? Where could I, you know, where can I put my stubborn ounces? Where can I place you know, who I am and what God has put in me, um, in the way so that I can, um, be a part so that I can help, you know, groups that are hurting, people that are hurting communities that are struggling, Um, and the, like, Jen Oyama Murphy (01:15:19):I'm trying to work this out. So I'm just working it out out loud for you all. But, um, I think kind of pi backing off of Rebecca, your, um, juxtaposition between Eden and City of God, and like, why for repair? I think for me, it's the invitation to both humility and hope. And, and for me, humility, um, often in my story and experience has led to what I felt like was humiliation, right? And the way that I learned culturally to avoid that was, um, to not need to repair, to do everything perfectly. To do everything well, to always get the a plus, you know, to, to not make a mistake where I would need to repair. But there's a desperation and hopelessness that comes with that kind of demand or pressure where, um, it's, it is dirty and painful, and it doesn't have that sense of like, Oh, there can be something of the goodness of God that can restore these parts that are dying or dead back to the land of the living. And, um, I think that the idea of that we're move, it's not binary. I'm not completely broken, and I'm not totally healed, and that there can be, um, hope and humility in making that journey. And if I'm able to make that journey with all kinds of different people, um, how much richer and deeper and broader that experience, that growing of humility, I think that can lead to growth and restoration and learning and healing. That just feeds into the hope, right? The hope that yes, I, I will reach the kingdom of God at the end, and there will be kind of the way that what we'll all be who we were meant to be. And there will be such goodness there, all that will continue to grow. Um, if I can stay kind of on that journey and not feel like, um, not give into the poll to be at one place or the other, you know, where I'm either totally broken and there's no hope or completely healed and there's no humility Dr. Ernest Gray (01:17:54):Sounds like a dash to me, a hyphen space, very much so that that hyphen space does so much, it preaches a better word, really does. Then the opposite ends of those two, those two realities are consum, consum, you know, conclusionary kind of places you wanna be. It's the hyphen that where we, where we ought to be. Rebecca W. Walston (01:18:25):Did you, is that word hyphen intentional? I Dr. Ernest Gray (01:18:31):Think so. I think so. It's the interim, well, we call hyphen the interim, you can call it all of that good stuff. Um, I, I think it's because, you know, whether, you know, whenever we, wherever we frequent a cemetery, we always think about how stoic it is to see the name and the date of birth and the date of death. And that hyphen is, that's what preaches the better word, is the hyphen in between what this person and how they went about their, their lives with their, their ups and downs, their navigation through the world for people like, um, people, for people who have been on the receiving end of, um, of trauma pain, um, and racialized, um, uh, this ambi or dis disor dis dis dis disorientation or trauma , we, we realize that they have a lot more weight to bear and that their experiences were far more complex. Um, and so this makes their stories even more winsome and more intriguing for us to learn and know about because we're, we're in relationship with them. Um, but the hyphen is the best place to be. And I find that in many ways, um, that is where real life occurs, and that's where I'm at right now. Um, as, as, as a matter of fact, Rebecca W. Walston (01:19:59):I, I mean, I've, I've heard that it has a very black sermon right there about the hyphen and the dash, right? But it hit me in particular because Danielle knows I often introduced myself as African hyphen American. So that your, that word hyphen hit me in that, in that context. Right. And as I was listening to Jen talk about humility and hope and how she, what she learned of how to settle into that space in her Japanese nest or her Japanese Hy American, I just, it just hit me, it hit me about the hyphenated racialized experience in the US and what you might be suggesting consciously or subconsciously Right. About that being a good place to be. Danielle (01:20:50):Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Jen, when you were talking, I was like, wanting to cry. I can still feel the tears. And I was just like, I felt the literal pull, I think at both end of that spectrum, when you talked through them for yourself, I was like, Oh, yeah, that's where I'm, Oh, wait a minute. Then you described the other end, and I was like, Oh, that's where I am . And I was, I think I was like, I was like, Oh, to sit in that, that interim space, you know, the hyphen space, sometimes I have felt like that space would kill me. Mm-hmm. the shame of not knowing how to be one or the other. Mm. Or to try to hold, or to try to explain to someone, you know, I, I think, what is your wife or repair, Why wouldn't I repair? I think of my own, you know, body. And, and, and when Rebecca's talked about not earnest, and, and you, I, I think like I have to be doing that internal work. I mean, because, you know, as you know, if you live in the body of the oppressor and the impressed , how do you make, how do, how do what repair has to be happening? It it, it's, it's happening. And, and if I'm fearful and wonderfully made, then God didn't make me like this on a mistake. It wasn't like, Oh, crap, that's how she came out. Let me see if I can fix it. Hmm. Um, indeed. So those are the things I was thinking as you were talking, Jen. Hmm. Rebecca W. Walston (01:22:47):I, I think Danielle, you're, you're in that sense on the slide of like, any version of repair must work towards the salvation and their redemption of the oppress, the oppress onlooker. Right. And that there has to be, we, we have to have a sense of categories for all of those things. Dr. Ernest Gray (01:23:10):And the work by each, I wonder, which, you know, I'm always trying to determine which one is gonna be the easier to repair, which, which person are you, the pressor or onlooker? And we would just assume that the onlooker would have the least amount of, but they might actually bear the biggest burden is because they're gonna have to deal with assumptions and biases that they have accumulated that are entrenched and that they don't wanna deal with and come to terms with. That's why it's easier to simply, you know, just lull their response or, or stay silent as the, as the notion below here says it's, it's easier to stay silent, to be, you know, resign, say it's not my issue than it is to get in and, and, and to really unearth whether or not this is actually something in internally that they're wrestling with that's far more scary to do. Um, and the majority of people might have some, this is a generalization, but it seems to me like the majority of people don't wanna really, really do that work, Danielle (01:24:19):Um, because all of us have been onlookers to one another's ethnic pain, whether we like it or not. I know I have absolutely. I've been an onlooker mm-hmm. , Yep. Mm-hmm. . Yep. And, and just, and then that's where you have where to step in is just like, Oh, that does not feel good. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. try to own that. My part in that, Dr. Ernest Gray (01:24:45):Ladies, it's almost a sense of a little bit of a reunion that I've had with you this afternoon, but I do need to go and pick up my two boys. And so for this part, I'm gonna need to jump off of the, um, of this, of this great time together, and hopefully I'll be invited back again so that my, um, so that we can, we can continue the conversation. Danielle (01:25:37):I will. Did you all have any final thoughts? TJ Poon (01:25:44):I've been noodling something since the very first slide, which is just like this distinction. I don't know if it's a useful one between disruption and rupture And how like rupture needs to be repaired, but a lot of times repair can't happen without sub disruption. And, you know, that first slide talks about how we kind of pathologized or like said negative anything that has to do with rupture, but you can't, like, you literally can't, um, repair without disrupting the systems. And I think in white imagination, those things are often made equivalent. Like anything that's disruptive is rupturing uncomfortable. Like, I need, I, I need to fix it as fast as possible. Um, versus no, actually this disruption is an invitation to something different. It's a disruption that actually will lead to an authentic repair or real repair as opposed to like, what calls dirty pain, like silence avoidance. Um, so I've just been thinking about those two different words and what they can mean. Mm-hmm. , Rebecca W. Walston (01:27:07):I like that distinction a lot. It, it feels almost like trying to get at like harm versus hurts, right? And, and try to have a sense of like, um, you know, are we always in the category of this is bad and awful and it needs to see immediately, Right. Or are there places where actually good and we need to let it play it itself out, So, yeah. Jen Oyama Murphy (01:27:35):Mm-hmm. Well, I think that also connects maybe fun too to Rebecca. You are, um, differentiating between like the demand to return to Eden or the like blessing of being on the journey to the city of God. Cause if the demand is to return to Eden, then anything disruptive is gonna feel, not like Eden, Right? But if, if it is about growing and learning and healing and developing on the road to the city of God, then disruption is part of that process, then it's something that may be hard, um, but it's necessary and hopeful or has the potential to be that. Rebecca W. Walston (01:28:22):Yeah. It, it does pivot something for me pretty significantly to be, to be talking about like the, my destination isn't actually Danielle (01:28:40):New ladies are really smart. can bottle all that up. I like that. TJ Poon (01:28:53):I mean, Jen, when you were like, I'm just working this out. And then you said something super deep and profound. I think what I was, what I was struck about what you said was like, um, just the demand to not ever need to repair like that internal pressure demand. And that's, that's how I feel all the time. Like, just, just be perfect and then you all need to repair mm-hmm. . Um, and just what, uh, yeah, just what a demand. What a, a burden. I don't, I don't know all the words, but like, it, it's dehumanizing cuz what it means to be human on this earth is to have disrupt, is to repair. Like you are going need to because we're all, we're all humans. And so there, when you said that, I was like, Oh, that's so important. Danielle (01:31:07):Because everything feels so lost. But I hope that this will be an encouragement to people about a conversation. Hopefully it'll feel like they can access something in themselves where.  

Bios:Ernest Gray Jr. is the pastor of Keystone Baptist Church located in the West Garfield Park neighborhood of Chicago.  He is a graduate of the Moody Bible Institute with a degree in Pastoral Ministries, and a graduate of Wheaton College with a Master's Degree in Biblical Exegesis.  He completed his PhD coursework at McMaster Divinity College and is currently completing his thesis within the corpus of 1 Peter. Mr. Gray has taught in undergraduate school of Moody in the areas of Hermeneutics, first year Greek Grammar, General Epistles, the Gospel of John and Senior Seminar. It is Mr. Gray's hope to impact the African American church  through scholarship. Teaching has been one way that God has blessed him to live this out.  Ernest is also co-host of the newly released podcast Just Gospel with an emphasis upon reading today's social and racial injustices through a gospel lens. www.moodyradio.org    Jen Oyama Murphy  "My love of good stories led me to Yale University where I received a BA in English. Upon graduation, I felt called to bring individual stories into relationship with the Gospel Story, and I have worked in the areas of campus and church ministry, lay counseling, and pastoral care since 1989. Over the years, I sought a variety of ongoing education and training in the fields of psychology and theology, including graduate classes at The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology and Benedictine University. I also completed the Training Certificate and Externship programs at The Allender Center, and I previously held roles on their Training and Pastoral Care Team, as Manager of Leadership Development, and most recently as the Senior Director of The Allender Center. Believing that healing and growth happens in the context of relationship, I work collaboratively to create a safe coaching space of curiosity and kindness where honesty, care, desire, and imagination can grow. Using my experience and expertise in a trauma-informed, narrative-focused approach, I seek to help people live the story they were most meant for and heal from the ones they were not. I am passionate about personal support and development, particularly for leaders in nonprofit or ministry settings, including lay leaders who may not have a formal title or position. I'm especially committed to engaging the personal and collective stories of those who have felt invisible, marginalized, and oppressed. I love facilitating groups as well as working individually with people. I currently live in Chicago with my husband, and we have two adult daughters.Rebecca Wheeler Walston lives in Virginia, has completed  Law School at UCLA, holds a Master's in Marriage and Family Counseling, is also a licensed minister. Specializing in advising non-profits and small businesses. Specialties: providing the legal underpinning for start-up nonprofits and small businesses, advising nonprofit boards, 501c3 compliance, creating and reviewing business contracts.TJ Poon serves with Epic Movement, where we both serve on the People & Culture Team (HR). TJ is the Director ofPeople & Culture and and also serves on Epic's leadership team to provide her leadership, wisdom, vision and direction for the ministry.Danielle:SO on screen and feel free to add to your introductions. Uh, Ernest, um, Dr. Gray is someone I'm met Yeah. Um, on screen during one of our cohort, um, virtual weekends and just listening to him talk, I think he was in the Caribbean when he was giving us the lecture mm-hmm. and talking about theology, and I was frantically taking notes and eventually resorted to screen shooting, like snapping pictures of the screen as he was talking. Uh, and then like quickly texting some friends and my husband to say, Hey, I was learning this that. And so that was kinda my introduction to Dr. Gray. And then we of course had a chance to meet in Montgomery. Um, yes, my respect just, uh, grew for you at that point. Um, the ability for you to be honest and be in your place of location Absolutely. And show up and show up to present, it felt like a theology that had life, and that feels different to me. So, um, thank  Dr. Ernest Gray:Thank You for that.  Thank you for that. No, I'm, it's a pleasure to join you all. I, I see some familiar faces and I'm excited to be with you all, and, um, yeah, I'm, um, yeah, I'm, I'm thankful that you thought me, um, thought my voice would be, uh, would be relevant for this conversation. So I'm, I'm grateful to be here and, um, yeah, I'm, I'm here to, um, to both participate and to, um, to learn as much as I can in this moment, so thank you.  Danielle:Mm. You're welcome. Um, and then there's Rebecca Wheeler Walton who is the boss, and she's both smart and witty and funny and kind and extremely truthful in the most loving ways, and so have highest regard for her. Back when I answered the phone, Luis would be like, Is that Rebecca  Yeah. Um, yeah, and tj, uh, TJ had gotten to know TJ over the last year and, um, you know, she's kind of introduced as like an admin person, but I've quickly learned that she, her heart and her wisdom are her strongest attributes and her ability just hang in the room in a tough conversation, um, has, I've just had an immense respect and hope for, for the future by, in getting to know ut j mm-hmm. touching. Yeah. And then at the top, y'all on my screen is Jen Oyama Murphy. She was my first facilitator at The Allender Center. Um, and she showed up in her body and her culture, and I was like, Man, that is freaking awesome. Um, and I wanna, I wanna do what she's doing with other people in this world. Um, Jen loved me and has loved me, and I don't think it can be overstated how wise and patient she is. Um, and just like when I say the word intuition, I mean it in a sense of like, deep wisdom. And, and that's, that's like, I keep searching. Like I wanna have access to that me. So, so thank you, Jen. Yeah.  Jen Oyama Murphy :Hmm. Gosh. Thank you, Danielle. Thanks. Well, I'm, I feel very privileged to be a part of the conversation, so thanks for inviting me.  Danielle:Yeah. So, I mean, I, Ernest you probably didn't get a chance to watch this clip, but it's this clip we're not gonna show. We talked about it. It's about, um, it's the border and there's like a three minute time, um, like timer for people to cross the border and hug each other and interact with one, one another on the southern border. And so there's like a tiny clip of this here. And, um, it's Latinx Heritage Month, and it felt really important to me to have a diverse conversation around repair, because Latin X is, um, Asian, it's black, white, it's European, it's white, it's indigenous. And I feel like, you know, in this conversation, what does repair look like for a Latinx person? And what, what does arriving, you know, to heaven mean, you know mm-hmm.  Dr. Ernest Gray:Indeed.  Danielle:So, yeah. So that's kind of where I'm coming from. And I have the slides up, but I, you know, I wanna hear your all thoughts on, on it, you know? Do you mind hitting the next slide, Tj?  Dr. Ernest Gray:Very good.  Danielle :Do you want me to keep moving? ? Yeah. Um, this is this guy that isn't red in, uh, Western psychology, although he was European descent and lived in El Salvador. He was murdered by, um, CIA operatives in El Salvador. And, uh, he was a liberation psychologist. And partly part of the reason he wasn't as well known here is because he gave almost all his lectures in Spanish on purpose. Hmm. Because he wanted to be rooted in a Latin American tradition. Um, and so I thought it was important to just lay the foundation for what rupture and repair means. He had a real vision for psychology to be a liberating movement, not just one that maintains like, Here, let me get you healed so you can function in this oppressive system. Like, um, yeah.  Dr. Ernest Gray :You know, I think about that kind of, um, movement, which seems to me has always been very much so a part of, you know, this resilience, this resilience push amongst indigenous people, groups, communities. It, it, it is a, it is a sense to regain their, um, their humanity when they've been trampled on, when that humanity has been trampled on. And so there are different epox I think that I've seen as of recent, um, where we see that this has come to a head. You know, I'll never forget the, in the, the ministry of, um, Dr. Cera Na Padilla, um, who was, who just passed a couple of years ago. And, um, I was fortunate to have a class by him, but it was his eyeopening class, uh, a world Christian perspective that gave me the ability to, um, um, hear just how liber the gospel can be and how restorative to the humanity of people groups that have been trampled upon, uh, actually is.  So I think that repair in many ways is just the, is just the acknowledgement that, hey, something in me is not right. And, um, it's not any one person. It feels as though this is a, um, this is the water in which I'm swimming, Like the water I'm in is like rotten. Um, and, and I wanna be rejuvenated through a, a water that, that refreshes and rejuvenates my life. Um, and that, that that water that it seems to be about is my aka the systemic kind of components that have trampled upon, um, indigenous groups. But that first step is acknowledgement, saying, Hey, um, something's broken in me. And it's not any one person. It's more of a system. It's more of the water in which I'm in. Um, that needs to be, uh, ameliorated. It needs to be, um, you know, I, I need it. It, I can't live like this. I can't, I can't, I can't live like this anymore.  Um, I think as well, there's, there's a lot of things that I think are many, very much so, um, um, you know, kind of tied to this, this equilibrium. I think, um, when I, when I hear about these struggles and I hear about how people are trying to, um, go for at least make sure that they are, um, pursuing their inherent dignity and worth it, it, it shouldn't seem as though it, it's such a, um, a, um, there's so much resistance to that work. I mean, where, as human beings, we really want to be affirmed. We wanna be loved, we wanna be cherished, very, very basic things. Um, but to have, but to have resistance to that amongst systems also shows that we, we've got to pull together to be able to make a, uh, a concerted effort towards bringing back a type of, um, um, regenerative and healing kind of ethic to our communities that are shattered, that have been broken.  And I, and I, and I, and I, and I personally see this right now as it relates to, you know, my community, which is African American, and I personally feel this, especially when I think about, um, people who are in survival mode and making bad choices. I always wanna pause and, and tell people, Listen, do not, don't, don't blame the victim. I mean, you're looking at William Ryan's book here as Right in front of me blaming the victim, Right. And I, I don't wanna, I don't wanna blame the victim because they don't, people don't wake up in the morning and think, you know, I wanna go out here and commit crime. I wanna do things I don't want, I don't wanna do these things just because I'm inherently, um, you know, um, malevolent person. No, I wanna do these things cause I'm, I'm trying to survive.  And, and it, and there, that signals to me as well that there's something broken, uh, in the social order. And that these communities in particular, the most vulnerable ones, uh, shouldn't be subjected to so much, um, to, to these things, to, to where they have to resort to violence, crime, or, um, you know, pushing against laws, unjust laws, if you will, uh, that people see is, um, oppressive. Shouldn't we should demo dismantle the laws that, that create these things. So that was a very, Forgive my thought, forgive my, um, thought, thought there, but I, I just wanted to kind of think and, and draw out some, some, some broad strokes there.  Jen Oyama Murphy:Yeah. I, I resonate with that a lot, Dr. Gray. I mean it, like, we've all been trained in kind of this narrative, um, therapeutic way of working with people. And so much of my experience has been looking at that story only as that story and not being able to look at it within a culture, within a system, and even within the context in which that story is being read. So if you are a person of culture in the group, you probably are at best, one of two in a group of eight mm-hmm. . And that has a story and a system all to itself. So even the process of engaging someone's story, even if you are mindful of their culture and the systemic story that that's in, you're also then in a, in a story that's being reenacted in, in and of itself, you know, that, um, I mean, Danielle and Rebecca know cuz they were in my group.  Like, you, you have best are one of two. And even within that too, you're probably talking about two different cultures, two different systems. And so that sense of, um, having repair, healing feel really contained to not just your story, but then a dominant structure within where that healing is supposed to happen. Like, it's, it's the water. Most of us have swarm in all our life, so we don't even know right. Where the fish that's been in that water all the time. And so we don't even know that that's happening. And so when, when the healing process doesn't seem like it's actually working, at least for me, then I turn on myself, right? That there's something bad or wrong about me, that, that what seems to be working for everyone else in the room, it's not working for me. So I must be really bad or really broken.  And it doesn't even kind of pass through my being of like, Oh, no, maybe there's a system that's bigger than all of us that's bad and broken. That needs to be addressed too. So I, I love what this cohort is trying to do in terms of really honoring the particular personal story, but also then moving out to all the different stories, all the different systems that are connected to that personal story. I'm, I'm grateful for that. And it's hard work, hard, hard, complicated work that it's full of conflict, Right. And math, and it's not gonna have five steps that you can follow and everything's gonna work out well for, for everyone. I mean, it's, it's gonna be a mess. You guys are brave.  Dr. Ernest Gray:This final statement here about overthrowing the social order not to be considered as pathological. Um, you know, that, that, that last part there, uh, the conflicts generated by overthrowing the social order not to be considered pathological people. I mean, I think that there's a sense that people really don't want to have to resort to this language of overthrow if these systems were not malevolent from the very first place. Right. And, and I think about this, how, how the exchange of power has become such a, has created such a vacuum for, um, the most vulnerable groups to be, um, um, you know, maligned taken advantage of, pushed under the bus or where's eradicated, um, without, with, you know, with impunity. And I think about that, that there, there has to be, in many ways when we see the e the various, um, TIFs and the various, um, contests that arise around the, around the globe, there seems to be a common theme of oppressive oppression, power abuse, um, and then it's codified into laws that are saying, Well, you're gonna do this or else.  And I guess that's, it's, it's almost as if there's a, a type of, um, expectation that this is, this is the only means that which we have to overthrow social orders that need to be, um, uh, eradicate need to be done away with. So, so there's, there's a lot of truth to this, this, this, this last part especially as well. Um, but I, I think that's what we see, um, constantly. One of the things that's popping in my mind right now is the ACON in South Africa. Um, and they're, they're dominant, The Dutch domination of South Africa and the indigenous group there, the, the South Africans, um, of af of, of, um, of black descent and how their struggles have ha have, you know, just constantly been, um, you know, so, so, so rife with tension and there's still tension there. And so it just takes on a different form.  I, I think that there's a lot of things that we can learn from the various contests, but we might, when we strip away layers of the onion, we might find that a lot of it is the way in which this power dynamic and power exchange, or lack thereof, is actually going on. Um, and again, we can call that what we want to, we can say it's Marxist. We can say it's, um, you know, um, critical, but critical theory helps us to, helps us with some of this to see in which power way in which power is leveraged and the abuse of it. Lots of it.  Rebecca W. Walston :I mean, I think, um, Ernest, if I can call you back if I've earned right quite yet, maybe not . Oh,  You got that right . Um, I, you know, I think what, what what hits me about your statement is, is, is the sense that, um, that there's that power and a sense of overthrow inextricably tied together in ways that I, I don't think they should be, I do not think that they were meant to be. Um, and I, it, it makes me think of a conversation that I had with the Native American, uh, uh, um, friend. And we were, we were together in a group of, um, diverse people watching, um, a documentary about a group of multi-ethnic, a multi-ethnic group engaging around race and racism. And we were watching the, um, this group of people sort of engage about it. And, um, I was, by the time the thing was over, like I was full on like angry, all kinds of things activated in me a around the Black American experience.  And I turned to this Native American guy sitting next to me, and, and I said, I'd like to know from you, what is your version of 40 acres in a mule? A and, and I said, you know, in, in my community, like, we have a thing about 40 acres in a mule, that kind of encapsulates a, a, a sense of what was taken from us as, as enslaved Africans, and some sense of what it means to, to start to repair that breach, right? And, and to give some sense of restitution. And it's codified in this sense of 40 acres and mule given to freed, uh, newly freed Africans as, as a way to, to launch into a sense of free existence. And I said to him, If I were you, I'd be like, pissed. Yeah. I, as an indigenous man, like, I'd want all of my stuff back, all of it, all of the land, everything. Like all the people, everything, everything. And so, I'd like to know from you, what is your version of 40 acres in the mill? What's your measurement of what it would look like to start to, to repair and to return to indigenous people? What was taken from them?  Hmm. And this man looked me dead in my face and said, We, we have no equivalent because the land belongs to no one. It was merely ours to steward, so I would never ask for it back.  Dr. Ernest Gray:Wow. Floored. Mm-hmm.  Rebecca W. Walston:A and I'm still by that it's been maybe six, seven years. And I've never forgotten that sentiment and the sense that, um, I, I wanted to sit at his feet and learn and not ask more questions. I just, and just the sense of like, what could my people learn from the indigenous community and how might it allow us to breathe a little deeper and move a little freer it? And so I, you know, I hope you guys can hear that as not like a ding against my community and what we're asking for, but just a sense of for how another people group steps into this question of rupture and repair that is radically different from, from my experience, and causes me to pause and wonder what must they know of the kingdom of God that would allow them to hold that kind of, that kind of sacred space that feels unfamiliar to me,  Dr. Ernest Gray:That is quite revolutionary. And if are representative of this type of, and again, those are just, those are just the terms we use to, to talk about repair and, um, and re restoration. I wonder if the, if see what I, what I'm struggling with is that what we are, what we wrestled through as an African American context was, and the vestiges is of, um, ownership. It's ownership and, um, ownership of bodies and ownership of land. And the indi, the aboriginal people of America, the Native Americans, they have this really robust sense of it belong. If that's the case that belongs to no one, my next question would be then, and again, if I'm thinking about ownership, well, that it's the damning sense of what ownership did to their communities, how they were decimated, how they were ransacked, how, how, um, you know, the substance abuse has ran rampant.  So if from, if it were me, I would ask a follow up question to this individual and ask why. Well then if the land is not an issue and it's not a, it's not a monetary thing that needs to be repaired, what about the damage? How will we go about putting a value upon or putting some type of thing upon the decimation of, of communities, the, um, the homes. Let's take, you know, Canada is r in pain, especially with the Catholic church and what was done in certain orphanages. Okay. And so, um, if not a monetary thing, what would be the re another response to repair the brokenness that the people have experienced? And I, and I, I don't, I understand the land is one thing, but there's also a people that have been shattered absolutely, absolutely shattered. And, and I think that still remains a question for me.  And again, it's a perennial question that is affecting multiple communities. Um, but these are felt more acutely, especially as, um, you know, Africans, uh, in the transatlantic route. And, and, and aboriginal native Americans who were, who are, um, you know, no one discovered them here. But this ownership piece is something that I think is what is inherent to whiteness, and it has created this vacuum. And why we need to have a sense of, um, you know, how it impacts every single debate. Every single debate. I would go down a rabbit trail about, you know, gospel studies and New Testament studies, but that's just, it's all, it's there too. It's, it's right there, too.  Danielle:TJ, can you hit the next slide? I think we're into that next slide, but I think what I'm hearing, and then maybe Jen has a, a follow up to this, is, I, I think part of my response from the Latinx community is we're both perpetually hospitable and perpetually the guest. Mm. Mm-hmm. We don't own the house. Mm. And we, and yet there's a demand of our hospitality in a house that's not ours. Mm. And there's a sense of, I think that comes back to the original cultures that we come from, of this idea that you showed up here, let me give you food. Let me, let me have you in, let me invite you in. And in the meantime, you took my, you took my space and, and you put a, you put a stake in it that said, Now this is mine and you're my guest. And now there's different rules, and I may be polite to you, but that does not equal hospitality. Right. And so, and I don't know, I don't have the resolution for that, but just this feeling that, that Latinx communities are often very mi migratory. Like, and, you know, we have, then you get into the issue of the border and everything else. But this idea that we, we don't own the house, and yet there's a, there's an, there's a demand for our hospitality wherever we go.  Rebecca W. Walston:What's your sense, Danielle, cuz you said, um, both there's a demand on the hospitality and also something of that hospitality hearkening back to your indigenous culture from Right. In the place where you're not a guest, you're actually at home. So is that a both and for you  Danielle:Mm-hmm. , because I think that's the part that's, that's robbed the meaning, The meaning that's made out of it is robbed. I think sometimes the hospitality is freely given. And, and that's a space where I think particularly dominant culture recognizes that. Right. And so there's, there's the ability to take, and then, then there's the complicity of giving even when you don't want to. And also like, then how does a, and this is very broad, right? And the diaspora, right? But the sense of like, the demand, if you don't give your hospitality then at any point, because you're the perpetual guest, they can shut you out and you can never return. So I haven't quite worked that through, but those are some thoughts I was having as you all were speaking.  Dr. Ernest Gray:Mm. I think that's, I think that's very keen, uh, you know, as a keen observation, my wife is, you know, from a Caribbean context, and so there's the hospitality notion wherein it's, I mean, that's just, it's irrespective of what you feel. This is just what you do. And so I think that it's, when it's taken advantage of or hoisted upon people in a way that is saying, Oh, you must do this, that harm can enue. But, um, there's a, there's a, for me, it's, it's, it's really, really foreign to, from the outside looking in to understand how that culture, um, has, um, historically genuflected or just kind of, um, it can become a part of weakness. It can become a part, or it can be become abused. Especially when this is an expectation of the culture. Um, and I think that's where the harm lies, is that there, there has to be some measures of, of like,  When conditions are, are, you know, almost in a sense of like, this isn't automatic. And it, and then there needs to be some kind of, some kind of ways in which it can remain protected. So that's to not be abused by those who know that this is an expectation of the community. Um, but yeah, that's, that's from the outside looking in, it's hard. My only connection is through, you know, my wife and her culture and seeing how that is, you know, I don't care what's going on inside. You know, you're gonna, you're gonna be hospital, You're gonna host, you're gonna continue to be, you're gonna reach out. You're gonna continue to be that person because that's what's expected of you.  Jen Oyama Murphy:I mean, Danielle as a Japanese American. I mean, I feel that bind of, I mean, it's not even perpetual guest for, I think Asians often. It feels like perpetual alien. Um, and, and yet, you know, there are cultural expectations and norms, you know, among the Japanese, around what it looks like to welcome someone into your home, what it means to be gracious and deferential, and that, So there's a whole culture that's, um, informing of a way, a style of relating that I think to Dr. Gray's point can be taken advantage of. Um, and can, I think be in some ways, consciously or unconsciously used by, um, that culture to kind of escape wrestling with the experience of, of marginalization and abuse and trauma. Because there's a culture that can give you some sense of safety and containment and soothing. If you go back to what, you know, um, culturally, I mean, after the internment camps, the incarceration of the Japanese during World War ii, that's exactly like what happened is the, the idea of, you know, being polite, being deferential, working hard, using productivity as a way to gain status and safety, and in some ways, right, taking the bait to, to be, to like out white, white people.  We're gonna be better citizen than the white people. And like, what that cost the Japanese Americans who, if you had asked them what kind of repair did they want, they would say none. We're just so grateful to be able to be in this country. It, you know, the, the grandchildren of the people that were incarcerated that kind of ly rose up and said like, This is wrong. And so it's just, it, it feels so complicated and like such a, such a math, um, in it. And that's where I feel like, um, learning not just the, the white Asian story, right? But having exposure and experiences and relationships with, um, a variety of different ethnicities and being able to learn from their histories, their culture, their way of, um, engaging trauma, working through a healing process, and not staying in a single lane in my culture only anymore than I wanna stay in a single white Western culture only.  But being really open to learning, growing. I mean, my experience with you, Danielle, and you, Rebecca, even in my group, right, opened me up to a whole different way of engaging story and working with the, um, methodology that we had been learning. And I'm so grateful I wouldn't have had to wrestle or contend with any of that if I hadn't been in relationship with both of you who have a different culture than I do, and a different style relating and a different way of responding to things than I do. That was so informative for me in broad slu, um, opportunity to really first own that there is a rupture, and then what it looks, what it could look like to repair. And that I didn't only have two, two options like my Japanese American way or the, the White Western way that I had learned all my life.  Rebecca W. Walston:I resonate with that, Jen. I think that, um, what comes to my mind is the sense of Revelation seven, nine, um, and at the throne of grace at the end of this, that identifying monikers every tribe and every tongue mm-hmm. . And, and it causes me to wonder why that moniker, why is it that the identification that the throne of grace is tribe and come. Right? And, and I think it hints at what you just said, this sense of like, there's a way in which this kind of hospitality shows up in each culture, um, in, in a way that I think each culture holds its own way of reflecting that text, um, in a way that is unique, um, in the sense that we won't have a full and complete picture of hospitality until we have a sense of how it shows up in every tribe and every time. Um, and, and so I love that that image from you of like, what can I learn from, from you as a Japanese American, and what can I learn from Danielle? What can I learn from tj? What can I learn from Ernest and, and how they, they understand, uh, and embody that with, with the sense of like, my picture will be a little bit clearer, a little bit more complete for having, having listened and learned.  And I, I do think we're talking in terms of hospitality about sort of, to me, the connective tissue between a erector and a repair is really a sense of resiliency. And, and it feels to me a little bit like the, there's a way where we can talk about hospitality that is really about, um, something of a God given capacity to navigate a rupture, whether it's individual or collective in a, in a way that allows for hopes, for pushes, for some sense of repair. And, you know, I was listening to Ernest talking, you know, I feel like I can hear Michelle Obama saying, when they go low, we go high. Right? And that is a, that is, it's a, it's a different kind of hospitality, but it feels like, feels like hospitality than the infant, right? It, it feels like I won't give in, um, to, to this invitation to join the chaos. I, I, I will, um, be mindful and thoughtful and intentional about how I move through it so that I don't find myself, uh, joining joining in it, but actually standing against it. And that, that feels very hospitable to me. To, to stand on the side of what is true and right. And honoring and, and, and not not joining the fray.  Danielle:You can see how our collective ruptures that we've all described, and I know TJ, you haven't spoken yet, um, how our trauma rubs up against one another and likely is in a heated moment, is very triggering.  If I'm in a, if Jen and I are in a space where we feel like we have to stay, keep our heads low, because let's say I have a family member, um, who's undocumented, right? Or Jen has a memory of, I don't know, a traumatic experience dealing with dominant culture. And we're with, you know, like you say Rebecca, like our African hyphen American friends, and they're like, Come on, let's go get it. Mm-hmm. , you can feel the rub of what repair might look like, and then there's a fracture between us. Mm-hmm. . If we don't, that's, I mean, and then the hard thing that I've been challenged lately to try to do is stay really close to my experience so I have a sense of self so that I can bring that full self to you and say like, I feel this way, and then I can more, more be able to listen to you if I can express a more truer sense of what I'm feeling. Does that make sense?  Dr. Ernest Gray:Perfect.  I think, I think, um, yeah, I, I, I think about the triggering aspects of how we have been collectively kind of retraumatized. You know, when you think about, you know, this since Trayvon Martin and and beyond here in America with African American context, we've just been trying to figure out how to stay alive and t-shirts keep printing regarding, um, you know, can't go to, can't go to church, can't go to a park, can't do this, can't do that, can't breathe. And it's almost as if it's, it's exhausting. Um, but it's entering into that space with other groups, other communities that creates a sense of solidarity, which is sorely needed. Because we would assume, and we would make this as this assumption, like, Oh, well, you don't have it so bad. That's not true. It looks different. It feels different. And until we can, at the same time, um, I like what you said about own, what we are feeling while we are in that moment, it allows us to at least get it out there so that we can then be active engagers with others and not just have our own stuff, you know, uh, for stalling, any meaningful connection.  I wanna think that there's a sense that, um, because, you know, our expressions in every way, whether it's hospitality or whether it's in the way in which we deal with, um, the various cultural phenomenons that we're closely associated with, is that these create the mosaic. If we, back to Rebecca's idea of Revelation seven, nine, these re these is why I love mosaics is because the full picture of our, um, similar, similarly expressed experiences do not look the same, but when they're all put together, eventually we'll see the, the picture more fully. And I think that that's the key is that it, it's so easy for us to be myopic in a way in which we look at everyone else's, or especially our own, to where we can't see anybody else's. That that creates this isolation, insular kind of isolation idea of, Well, you don't have it as bad as I do. Or they're not as, they're not as shaken as this community or that community or this community. Um, and wherein there's some truth to that, Um, if we're going to regain a sense of human, our full humanity, we've gotta figure out ways to, to do that active listing so that our ours doesn't become the loudest in the room.    

And this week  you're going to listen in on a conversation between myself,  Rebecca Wheeler Walston, and TJ Poon. We're all part of a project we've been working on together for over a year now. And, and as part of that project, we're exploring the Latinx experience in, in this time. And so what, what we're doing in this conversation is kind of fleshing out, like, what does it mean to have an intercultural conversation in with the primary lens of Latinx culture?Rebecca Wheeler Walston:Specializing in advising non-profits and small businesses. Specialties: providing the legal underpinning for start-up nonprofits and small businesses, advising nonprofit boards, 501c3 compliance, creating and reviewing business contracts. Rebecca lives in Virginia, has completed  Law School at UCLA, holds a Master's in Marriage and Family Counseling, is also a licensed minister.TJ Poon: Danielle (00:12):Welcome to the Arise Podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, and healing. And this week, uh, you're going to listen in on a conversation between myself, uh, Rebecca Wheeler Walston, and TJ Poon. We're all part of a project we've been working on together for over a year now. And, and as part of that project, we're exploring the Latinx experience in, in this time. And so what, what we're doing in this conversation is kind of fleshing out, like, what does it mean to have an intercultural conversation in with the primary lens of Latinx culture?Rebecca (00:52):Right? It it reminds me what that, um, the, the, the, uh, Latinx woman who we saw this weekend. I don't know, I'm not sure I remember where she's from particularly, but how she was talking about how, like in Spanish, the, the wording is different. Therefore, what I interpret or what I metabolized right, is different. That was brilliant.Danielle (01:18):Mm-hmm. . Okay. I love what you just said, Rebecca. And then tj, I'd like you to hear your thoughts on this, but part of what I think I'm hoping for in saying this is a space for you to even come in and, and say, like, in the African H and American experience, here's where I resonate. Mm. But here's where I don't resonate if you don't resonate. So I, I think this wasn't outright said in the African American experience about the psychological lens, but I do think it was implied and it was there. And so I think this is a chance for us to collaborate and hopefully pull people together despite differences. So that's something I'm wondering about, but I I didn't wanna just throw that out there in the moment.Rebecca (02:11):What do you mean by a psychological lens?Danielle (02:14):Because in the Western European format, pretty much the only person of color I read, and the only person of color I read from a psychology standpoint was re men. Mm-hmm. , every single other person in literature was white, white female, white male philosophers, European philosophers here and there. Someone Spanish, but white. And what I'm saying is that European Americans don't own healing practices. And oftentimes what I've learned in the space of a psychological lens, I've found it in my community that has a far longer history and with different language. And, and so even when we talk about like alignment, I mean, doesn't that sound like Dan Siegel to you? Doesn't that sound like Shar to you? Yeah. But they aren't citing as techs and South American indigenous peoples. And I, I have no doubt that that is likely found in African American communities as well. And so I, I wanted to give the participants, at least La Latinx participants and hopefully bridge some gaps here and have people know, like, I'm not just stepping into a healing practice that is made by European white men. This is a, this healing practice. Actually, European white men, like a lot of things took it and they reworked it in their culture, which fine, but we also own part of that history. We own part of the way we heal. This is not original to it.Rebecca (03:59):That's the part where I feel like, again, like throwing an accusation that such, such as white is, um, among other things, it is problematic because unless you've done the research to, in what you're telling me is that the very origin of something that you're, you're discussing actually came out of European culture and only outta European culture, then the statement is just outright inaccurate, right? Mm-hmm. . And in some ways, you are actually perpetuating supremacy by, by, by perpetuating the, the lie that the thing we're talking about is, is unique to, to people of European or white folk. Right. Or however. Um, and so stop doing that. Right? Right. But, and so, so yeah. So you're asking me what is the African American equivalent to alignment, toka testimonial, andDanielle (05:02):Like trust.Rebecca (05:03):Yeah. You're asking me that?Danielle (05:05):Yeah. Cuz I mean, I don't know. But even in watching high on the hog mm-hmm. , and they're in this, they go to this one church setting, right? I don't know if you remember it. And it's like, got just the pillars left. And it was a, a place where they imagine one of the first quote unquote, first established African churches were in the south, and they talked about they had like, images of people dancing in that space mm-hmm. . And I was imagining that when I wrote this, things like that came to me as perhaps examples of heart to heart listening. Although it didn't look like, let's be honest, when Mexicans are hard to heart listening, we don't sit down. Mm. You know, we're moving around, we're talking, and, and we don't wait for you to finish your sentence necessarily.Rebecca (06:00):Right? So the thing I could say about that, the thing I would say about Plactica, right? Um, twice now, in the past week, I have had an older black woman say to me, I, I came to lay my eyes on you. What they expressly said was to put an eye on you and they point to one eye, right? And it's this sense that I need, I need to see you with my own eyes in order to discern or listen to what is happening in, in the space, right? Mm-hmm. . Um, so I think that, that, that might be the sense of heart to heart listening, right? Like, there's something that happens where, Right. That, that's a part of the alignment is I can read with my eyes the, the space, right? And then this thing about testimonial, what comes to my mind is that the phraseology keeping it real, right?This idea that with there, like the story that is being told needs to be a true story. Mm-hmm. , we have lots of, you know, when you hear the snaps and all this, but the sense that something has resonated in my body with the sense of like, now what you just said is that that's the truth, right? Mm-hmm. and, and, and a problem. If that, if that's not what happens, right? To the point that is a compliment. Oh, he keeps it real. She keeps it real. He keeps it 100. Right? It's the basic sense that you're, you are telling, you're, you're saying the story that you're giving is the true word or trues version of what happened. Um, and probably for the last one, in terms of trust or confidence or inclusion, I, I, I would probably say, um, the, the sense when I be like, Oh, that's my girl and we're here. Right? That's, and again, with the eyes, it's something like these two things. If the first two things happen that leaves the door open for a sense of, there, there is a trust and a confidence in a sense that we are in alignment together. Right? Right. And, um, if one of those three things is not legit, then you are out. We are like, we not here. Mm-hmm. , Do you know what I'm saying? I, I mean that's very, uh, colloquial in the language, but I think the, the, the dynamic is true nonetheless.Right? What's the version? And so there is a sense even that my whole body has to be engaged in the process for me to feel this kind of alignment. I need to see it, touch it, taste it, hear it. Like all of my senses need to be engaged before I feel like I could say, Right? And if I, if I don't have that, I don't know. I don't know you. Right? Like, I d know you like that.Danielle (09:03):Mm-hmm. , tj, any thoughts or anything to add or comments? Not yet that I'm enjoying this conversation. I think one thing I wanted to add for Za, like trust is something that happened at my daughter's Za. Now my fam, they're not my family, but I'm calling them my family. They all came and c and Corte, it's their, um, their daughter and their, and their son-in-law came, the son-in-law's white. He's, and he's, he's joined the family. And, uh, they're always telling me like, Hey, he didn't say hi to so and so, can you help him out? You know? So he didn didn'tDidn't speak. So, uh, that's a big thing, right? To say hi to everybody. I'm always saying, Hey, did you say hi to them? He's like, I think I did like brother, like, you better go do it again. They don't feel like you really sent high. He's like, I waved. I'm like, No. They wanna like, no, thatNo. You gotta like shake your hand. And so they're giving, they're giving him hints, right? But they, they're keeping him. They're not, they're not, they're not pushing him out. And so at the point where the dancing was on and the dj, they requested a song and they're like, Sam, Sam, get out there and dance. And Sam was like, Okay. And it's this, it's this, basically it's this Mexican line dance. And he was right on it. He had the whole dance down and everybody cheered for him. They were like, You're in, you're in. And they were going nuts. And afterwards he was glowing. He was so happy. And it, it wasn't a sense of like, if he didn't do it right, he was gonna be ridiculed. It was just like, you're part of us, you know? Mm-hmm. . And so that's kinda what I think too about trust and inclusion, like the trust to share moments like that with someone, even in fun time times, you know? Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Does that make sense?Rebecca (11:03):It makes perfect sense.Danielle (11:05):Mm-hmm. , I wish you could see this guideline dance.Rebecca (11:08):It makes perfect sense.Danielle (11:11):And by the way, Mexicans do a lot of line dancing and that's,Rebecca (11:15):I mean, you know, black people know a little bit, just a little bit, just a little bit about my, not that much, just a little bit .Danielle (11:27):Okay. So that feels like good. Um, TJ, can you hit the next slide, please? Yep. Um,Rebecca (11:36):I love that word edited.Danielle (11:38):Mm-hmm. . So I think we can talk about, if you're open to this, and TJ you can feel free to hop in here at any moment. Um, what does it mean to edit or fragment a Latinx story? It means to, there's many Asian identities which are subsumed. The African narrative is often edited out or, or almost like tried to blend in. Um, indigenous narratives are also pulled apart and, and edited out within our collective story. And so therefore we hang onto, I think it feels like if we tell those stories as a community, we won't be able to keep up. We'll be too separate. We won't be able to keep up with a dominant culture that will be too far apart to keep up. That make sense?Rebecca (12:34):No, you, you have to give it to me one more time. What's your sense of the, the, the, like, you feel like you can't keep up.And I, I don't think you're being unclear. I think I can't hear you. So go, go ahead.Danielle (12:51):I think we'll be too divided and we're already divided out. We're already set apart as a community, especially in the United States. And it feels like something I've experienced is, if you further complicate my identity, if you ask me to further, Id like, if you ask me to further step into more marginalized, quote unquote marginalized identities, then not only will I be separated from what I need to survive, which feels like whiteness, I will also be further alienated in my community. Mm.Rebecca (13:28):So what, what's the part that you're, you're, I, I think I'm with you and I, and I feel like I can't hear, not cuz you're not being clear, but like that this is the part where the African American lens is really very, very strong. And so there's a part of me that's like, I, what? So, um, so, and I don't think it's, cuz you're not being clear, I think it's because when you're describing is a little bit foreign to, to the, to the African hyphen uh, um, hyphenated experience. So what, what are you saying? Are you, are you, what's the extra fragmented identity that you're saying you don't wanna step into? Like the, the, the, the thought of like Latin Latinx being a mix of like African and Asian and indigenous identity, it's thatDanielle (14:20):Mm-hmm. that there's no space for Latinx. It feels like there's no space for Latinx in dominant culture as it is.Rebecca (14:32):Right?Danielle (14:32):And if then you have to say, Well actually I'm Chinese and Mexican, now, I'm, now I'm not just stepping further away from whiteness, but I'm also stepping outta my community. Cause that's, that's a learned, unacceptable way to identify.Rebecca (14:51):So, so here's my, here's my question about that. Cause it in some ways, okay, so I say African American, right? And we are so severed from our African-ness, I don't, I don't have the invitation to be like, Oh, I'm Ghanaian and you're Nigerian. And, and even if I knew that, I don't have a sense of what that means. I, I don't, I don't carry in my body a sense of like, that means we can't be friends because Nigerian and Ghanaians have this kind of thing in their history or whatever. I don't have that we're, we are so severed from it that there isn't any real way for us to, to go back. And in some ways we don't. I mean, there's a little bit of it, but nobody really, nobody's really, really, really truly, uh, deconstructing the African American identity that far down to the point that it would actually fracture us.Um, so, so in on the one part, the part why I'm having a hard time hearing what you're saying is, is I'm, what I'm saying is that's far from my experience. Therefore it's far from my lens. Right? But also, here's the thing, I wonder, uh, in her book, Born on the Water, right, the author asserts that something happened in the, in the middle passage on the water of the Trans-Atlantic that actually forged a, a third a new people group that was neither African nor American, but somewhere in the middle. And that, and, and, and so by the time they, they step onto us shores it, it, like, she literally talks about what was many, when they entered the ship in terms of their tribes be like, is fused into one in this hyphenated existence. And by the time they get off the ship, it is, it is the creation of a new people group, which is, it's, it's mildly controversial, but not really.Cuz nobody, even though, even though there's a whole sort of back to Africa and I wanna do the 23 and me thing and find out like what tribe from Ghana I came from, it, it isn't really about that kind of fracturing. Right? And, and so there wasn't people, there's something about what she said that resonates with people enough that you didn't hear any real pushback on, on that ideology. So I'm wondering Right. If I'm wondering about that, I'm wondering about that felt experience and lived reality and if the invitation, even in the loudness experience is to not, not not fracture it that much, Right? Is there some invitation in the text and in the lived experience that is about, we we're not going back to Eden. Mm-hmm. We, we like, we are pressing forward to, to the city of God. And when we get there, your, you will be able to hold and there's absolute invitation from Jesus to hold Mexican American Right? In a way that would allow you to note the Asian ancestry and the African ancestry and whatever in the indigenous ancestry with all the honor and celebration it deserves, and not have that be a fracture.Danielle (18:23):Yeah. I don't think I'm seeing that as the fracture. I'm seeing the fracture coming when we don't acknowledge that yes, we're Mexican, but in Mexico there are 16 cast colors mm-hmm. . And a part of that has to do with how dark you are to how light you are to how your eyes look to how, how your nose looks. And, and I think we cannot forget that we are living into that cast system as a people group. And so I think part of the editing is we, we've edited that out. Like, oh yeah, we're all Mexican, but when you get into our familiesRebecca (19:12):It, it ain't that.It ain't that. No, there's a hierarchy.So is not in, in the going towards it. It's, it's the, the fracture is that being in America in the hyphenated existence right. Is there's perhaps an invitation to edit out some, some of the other parts of your culture. And I think that's true across the whole cohort. I think everybody feels that. I think I, I think it's, it's why even though they have con consistently asked us to get into interethnic conflict, it feels really hard to do it right because, uh, and not just conflict between like blacks and Latinos or Asians, whoever, but conflict like within our own culture. Cause black people got colorism too. It's bad.It's real bad.Danielle (20:10):Yeah. Tj, any thoughts or comments?TJ (20:14):Nope. I had a lot of thoughts while we're talking, but I feel like just moving along, it's good.No, I totally do. Yeah. I have lots of thoughts, but I don't Yeah. Helpful to say. Right.It's a good point. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a, the lot of like, um,If, if, uh, only claiming one identity is also your sort of like, ticket to solidarity or like what you build solidarity around, it is very hard to enter into those other more marginalized identities. I, I mean, I think about that for Asian Americans too, Like how even Asian American is like a term that was made up, but, but part of like, the real benefit of it was solidarity, you know, like becoming a group when this wasn't really a group. And so just there that there's, uh, there's a lot of beauty in that and also a lot of like real messed up step in that. And so like if you, if you are, if you have an identity around which there is some solidarity, like we can rally around, you know, this, um, in a place where we're already marginal, already marginalized. Mm. Yeah. I don't know what your motivation for further marginalizing yourself. Do you know what I mean? Cause like you Yeah. So I think that's complex.Danielle (21:55):Yeah. You said that really well, tj mm-hmm. .Rebecca (22:00):I I think it reads different too in, in different communities. Like, but African American, it is, is a term of respect. And it, and it's also a notation that you are an outsider cuz we don't call each other that mm-hmm. , you know what I mean? So, and, and to me, whenever I say like Asian American, I feel stupid. Like I feel like I'm, I'm entering into the conversation in a way that is unintelligent because I, I, I think it's a dishonor to, to slap that name when what I really wanna know is what country are you from and is it better for me to identify you as Japanese American or Chinese American or Taiwanese than it is for me to say Asian American. You know what I mean? Like, I, I just feel the awkwardness of how's this gonna read again, I think because I'm aware none of these are self named monikers. Mm-hmm. , they're all imposed, but, um, by whiteness. And so it always feels awkward.Danielle (23:09):And I mean the additional con conversation for Latinx, even Latinx, I hate that word, but even the additional conversation is how have people of all these various backgrounds had to rally together to fight western intervention in their cities, in their countries, you know? Mm-hmm. . So they have to rally around that. But even that gets confusing because with the infusion of like money and power from the United States or other outside interests, it even splits. It splits people even more. But I think when people get to the United States, they say stuff like, I'm Cuban, you know, or I'm Mexican. There's not, there's a way of surviving in that.Rebecca (23:56):Right. Plus what do you do with the cause like where I grew up, if you are Puerto Rican on the west coast, that made you Mexican, but if you're Puerto Rican on the east coast, you are black. Like end of story, end of conversation. And so even, even that is like Yeah. Like all, yeah. All the, all those lines, it is different.Danielle (24:26):Yeah. So we'll we can step into that, you know, hopefully a little bit more brief cuz we'll probably run out of time. ButTJ (24:35):Like, I walked with my friend when she was, she's Mexican American, but she's also white and she was like, you know, wrestling through how do I identify myself and when these are the categories, it's really hard to like, I don't know, it just that multifaceted identity thing. How do you talk about racialization as like a part of that, um, when the categories are oppressed and oppressor and you pull both of those in your identity. So I don't know, but those were just thinking about that.Danielle (25:13):I think when I hear you, I think back to what Derek McNeil said to me, that we live in a racialized society and addressing race will take us so far, but it's really our, and it has a limit, but it's really being in our cultures is where we will find healing from the actual trauma. So I, I go back to that a lot and that's why I think it's really important for you and I Rebecca, to talk about, you know, when we talk about the first, like the plaquea and the testimonial on for us to root ourselves in some somewhat of culture in the healing. SoRebecca (25:50):No, it's, it, it, yeah. I mean, I think in some ways we've been asserting that the, the, this whole time, right? This idea that like if you're black, you need lean fully in into that and fully into the ways in which your culture, that culture has made you, made, made pathways towards healing for you mm-hmm. , right? In the way that your culture has understood and made meaning out of your story. Um, and, and, and therefore created avenues of, of, of, of, of healing for you. Right? In, in a sense, you're asking what archetypes right? Ha has, has your culture creative for you. Um, and, and, and, and that the more that we do that, the less dissonance we have, right? Mm-hmm. . Um, and in some ways the very creation of sort of the identity of the oppressed, right? Is the, the, the, the very identity that gets created under the force and weight of oppression is that is what healing looks like, right? I mean that, like, the meaning that gets made out of the identity of the hyphenated existence is to define the harm and then define what it looks like to be healed from itin a way that is unique to the story that you have, Right? And then the truth is the same is true for the majority culture, right? I mean, and the, and the work that will have to be done on behalf of our white brothers and sisters is what does it look like to tell a true story and what does healing look like?, right? And, and I think the, the pitfall is if the invitation outta majority culture is to not tell the true story, if the invitation out of the perpetrator culture is to be dismissive and to live in a level of denial for what the true story is, you never get to those pathways or architects of healing because you, you can't admit that harm has actually been done.Is resiliency, Right? It is the God given capacity to navigate the harm that is embedded in your story. Right? And, and it is this sense that Jesus knew in this world you will have trouble. Like, like it's, it's, it trauma is going to hit you. Right? But, but I have embedded in, in, in, in your collective story at a sense of what healing looks like and redemption looks like for you, Right? And, and, and resiliency is your, is really in some ways the capacity to tap into that mm-hmm. and to leverage itDanielle (28:37):Mm-hmm. . So if you hit the next slide, um, tj, then we have this polyvagal chart, which I think says like our different cultures allow us to be in these different states and, and kind of like what we've talked about before, and that's not wrong. And, and I think, I think what's hard about this is that some of our resiliency has been pathologized.Rebecca (29:06):Yes. Very much so. Right? And the, the simple argument that, uh, because our, our whatever reaction we took in the moment was in fact a reaction to something traumatic is the thing that pathologizes it, right? And, and I, I think that's a mistake. It's like to say that we were kicked out of the garden and because of that, we built, we built a response to that severing that the response itself is pathological. Because our goal is to be back where we were in the garden before sin it, that that's not how the story go. That's not how it works, right? I mean, yes, we were excised from the garden, right? And what's pathological is that she ate the damn apple when God said don't do it. That that part is a problem. But, but, but, but the capacity that we developed to live life outside of the garden is not itself pathological simply because it is in reaction to the fact that we no longer live in the garden, Right?That, like, there will be a reaction and there's good reaction and healthy reaction that it, that is in fact resiliency. And then there are other reactions that are pathological that are problematic and that we do need to address, right? Mm-hmm. . But the simple fact that something is a reaction to a traumatic event does not itself pathologizing mm-hmm. , Right? And this is the part where I, I, I, tide tribute has a strong, um, and there's a line in the song where he says, um, something of like, the devil's gonna wish he never messed with me because I, like, I came back stronger and better than I would if, if he would've left me alone in the first place. Right? And so there, there's, there's something I think we're missing in the theological frame that that is like, um, the, there's something that happens in the meant for evil. God moves for good, there's something in whatever that switch is that rotation, that flip that is of significant value mm-hmm., Right? And if we simply pathologize it because it is a reaction to a move of evil, we have missed the, like, the mystery of God in that moment to take a thing that was meant to be our downfall and not only cause us to survive it, but to, but it is that thing that actually makes us better, stronger, more like him, Right? And so, so that in and of itself is good. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. . And so there's something of the ability to move up and down this chart that is, that is freaking brilliantDanielle (31:57):Mm-hmm. . So, so I think I wanna go back to that story in Genesis. And when, you know, they ate the apple and then God came walking through, He, he asked them where they were, and through the conversation he says to them, you know, he finds out that they ate this apple and that that's why they were, you know, wearing, had sewed these fig leaves and made this, this, um, made these like coverings, right? I'm assuming for their body. But that's not, they weren't in trouble for their shame about their body. You know, that's not why he, he kicked them out of Eden. It was for what they did. And then actually when they were out of Eden, he honored that shame. He made them close out of animals. So God actually didn't take them, didn't take their shame and move them through this polyvagal chart and force them to be calm in their body in a certain way.TJ (32:58):I think that's a really important thing to say. Mm-hmm. .Rebecca (33:04):Right? And, and I think there's also a sense in whichThat what, what you're, what that means then is that something was fundamentally altered in Adam and Eve and they never got to go back to the state in which they were in Eden as if it had never happened. Right? And, and I, and I think there's something about the gospel that is, um, that that isn't what, that's not what you're meant for, right? There's a kind of naivete before she eats the apple. Mm-hmm. Right? That we, we don't get to go back to mm-hmm. . And, and there might be some loss there, right. Of, of, of innocence, Right. But there's also something to be gained in the process of having God honor the shame and re reshape it and reimagine it for us. Right? And, and it, um, there's a quote on my Facebook page, something of like, uh, um, a gratitude that I have for my struggle because in it, I stumbled across my own strength mm-hmm.. And, and so there's something, I think I, there's something that we gain in the wrestling and the struggling and the coming out in a place of God honoring where we've been, including the shame that we have felt that that, so you don't ever really get to go back home again, right? Like, you never get to go back to life before the apple, but you do know the grief of having ate the apple, the agony of having eaten the apple and the sweetness of God having restored your relationship to him even after you ate the apple. Right? That, and so there's a different depth to your relationship with Jesus, right? Mm-hmm. , I mean, I think we could feel it in our own marriages even, right? Like it sucked when we fight, but there, but there's something sweet about, about when you get to that place of like, I'm married to a guy in in with whom I can totally blow it. Like, totally blow it. Mm-hmm. and, and, and, and this relationship can hold that.Danielle (35:20):And, and I think I wanna make a like a further point. It's not that they didn't eat meat after this, but God sent Adam to do what was closest to him, which was till the earth because he had made Adam from the Earth, it says that mm-hmm. , he didn't send him to a place of then further shame where he had been caring for animals and implied, now you have to herd these animals. Like I think there's something special in thatRebecca (35:47):That was his job to begin with before Yeah. Before the apple, right? Yeah. Yeah. And, and so there's a sense of it being restored in some capacity.Danielle (35:56):Uh-huh and he literally put chair bins up there, they were never getting back in.Rebecca (36:02):Right? You Right, right. And, and that yes, there's some loss, but that doesn't mean that the progression forward does not bring like a corresponding sweetness that might even overpower the, the sense of loss.Danielle (36:18):And so I think that really fits with the clip from, um, from Incanto because they're not going back to that first city in that town andTJ (36:34):Uh, I think, I think it's, I, yeah, I'm having a lot of thoughts, but I just, I think pointing out that God treats their responses with compassion, cuz I don't think that's how we treat our own reactions. You know? Um, and my, my friend has gone off into this, like, she got in trouble on, um, for her take of like all, all coping is adaptive. Like she's trying to come against this like maladaptive coping label. And she's not saying that there aren't he versions of coping, but that we cope however we can. And then when we're able to cope better, we trade those coping mechanisms for ones that are healthier. And I think, I don't know, I I I'm not qualified to weigh in on that, but I think the point of treating ourselves with compassion, because when you see this chart, at least me, I'm like, well, how, how can I just get to the rest, like to the, you know, how can I move myself through? Um, because all other responses are bad when that's not what, that's not even how God treated Adam and e like, I think that's really important to say. Cause I don't think that's our default response is to like treat our reactions with compassion. And I don't think they change unless you can hold them with compassion.Rebecca (37:54):I would actually argue that our, our body's capacity to move along this chart is, is God, is God given. Right. Right. And there, there's a very appropriate time and a place for fear for, for anything that's on here. Right. Um, I I think, uh, I I don't even think you could argue that we're meant to live in this place of perpetual rest.Jesus is like on day seven, hollered me about rest. Right. But until then, like, you know, so are we right? I I I think like our capacity to move through these things is, is God given in the first place, Right? And some of the ness that we might feel is when there's not a sense of b balance or a sense of home, you know, like of the fluid sort of homeostasis of being able to read a situation and move with agility between the, these phases, right? Um,Danielle (39:00):Or the way perhaps our cultures have been pathologized for staying in different places in this right cycle. And therefore as a practitioner working in a cross-cultural environment, we have to come in with an attitude of first alignment and then willingness to be curious and receive, you know what Ernest said, that customizabilityRebecca (39:24):Right? Right. That plus I think, like I said, I think there's a time and a place for every single thing on here. So some of the pathologizing of communities of color is like, sometimes vigilance is not hyper vigilance, sometimes it's just situationally appropriate vigilance. Right. And, and the problem is that the majority culture is isn't paying attention to the power dynamics in the room. So they are misreading the need for vigilance in the room. Right. And so, and so then I'm not actually in this pathological space of hypervigilance, Right? I'm not in this space of PTSD where I'm actually not on the battlefield. And so my vigilance doesn't make any sense. I actually am, and my body is rightfully reading some sense of threat in the room. The problem is that in your not reading the room, well as you know, as, as a member of the culture that happens to be in power in that moment, you, you're, you're, you're not, you're not being honest about what the dynamics in the room really are. So you miss it. Mm-hmm. , and then you, you know Right. In a way that was like accusatory, like, like you're not, you're not doing the work because you're not, you're doing this and, and that's not necessary. You know what I mean? So Yeah.Danielle (40:49):So I wonder if it'd be possible to even name during this section, and we're talking about Adam and Eve, that when you're the other, like as a culture that's stepping into this experience, that it's possible you may be going up and down this chart, like what is Danielle gonna say? Mm-hmm. , what is Rebecca gonna say? What will happen in this moment mm-hmm. and, and to, for us to honor those bodily experiences. And maybe, you know, how we did with Jenny just slow down and ask mm-hmm. . Cause I will be going up and down this chart during the talk because, you know, there's performance pressure. There's the idea of I wanna honor my culture. There's the idea of how do I interpret myself. So I think it's fair to name that.Rebecca (41:42):Yeah. And that there are really good reasons why Right. That that, you know, and, and how do you step into a sense of self evaluation about how much, what, where's the line for me between like, this is a, a resilient response that I need to honor and where there are places where there's some hypervigilance, right? I mean, not that you wouldn't honor all of it, but to help them start to understand like there, there are resilient reactions and then there are reactions that are more about like being resigned to, to the weight of our collective stories. Right. And the, the text doesn't ask us to be resigned. Right? Right. It, it, it ask us, uh, to, to fight and to persevere, right? Mm-hmm. , um, and to press on towards the mark.Danielle (42:33):And in fact that's where, you know, that's where we can come back to like, God didn't ask Adam to get on with it to like stay naked. Right. And he didn't even call it out as a problem. He's just like, Here man, here's some nicer clothes.Rebecca (42:53):Right. And right. And, and you can almost hear in that a sense of like, like Eden is where you started, but it isn't where you're gonna end up. And, and and, and there is a journey that we will be on together. Right. And so like, there's some things you're gonna need for the journey, including some clothes, right? Not, not, not, I mean, Yeah. Yeah. And, and if we really truly believe that God is omni mission and he knew from the beginning and therefore the apple and the fall not, did not surprise him and that he always had a plan for Right. Jesus was always in the work mm-hmm.And that he always meant for us to end up in Revelation 79 knowing what it would cost us to land it there through that pathway. Right. Then going back to Eden before the fall was, was is not how we're supposed to play this game.Yes. And also, uh, it maybe took us the struggle of the past year to figure out this is the talk.Cause there's something really inviting about Eden is what you're meant for. Like, it's not like that doesn't resonate and it isn't like it isn't true. Right. I mean, it is true that we, we were meant for the splendor of Eden. Right. But it's also true that the game changed.And, and, and then now we're meant for something actually sweeter and richer with more depth than Eden.Danielle (44:51):Mm. That makes me wanna cry. Cause it feels hopeful compared to what I have felt, you know?Rebecca (44:59):Like where it meant for the sense of greater, is he Right? I mean, where it meant for the sense of, and we shall overcome and the only way you get there is cuz there was something you had to overcome. Right. There's the, the like something went gravely wrong in Eden that put an obstacle in your way.Right? And so I think we have, right? Yeah.Danielle (45:25):TJ what are you thinking?TJ (45:28):Uh, I'm thinking about redemption for white people. Like what, what, you know, which is not the focus of this conversation. That's where my,Danielle (45:37):But I think it is actually part of the focus cuz I think we're all too, but you are white and, and you're in white skin, but you're also not white.TJ (45:45):Yeah, I know. Yeah. I, Yep. Super aware. And I, and I think that is like, just as you guys have been talking throughout the few weeks until, until more recently where I just am like, it's, it's like anything that you banish from the table has a lot of powerYeah. And yeah. So even though we're like not gonna devote any of our conversation to this part over here, which is an intentional choice, that actually necessarily means that it's exerting a lot of power over us. Um, so I don't know. I just was thinking about that, like what there is a movement to specific cultures. There's um, there's a recovery work and, and it's something that we're all doing, We're doing it in different ways. Sometimes we're doing it in different spaces, but we are doing itRebecca (46:51):Absent a frame around whiteness white people. And, and the redemption of that story, you, you, you can't in order to have a complete picture of God mm-hmm. and, and, um, and so they treat that as a sacred moment of curiosity around what is it that this culture knows about God that we do not mm-hmm. what parts of him are translated that we don't have words for mm-hmm. . Um, and it made me, it, when he told me that, it reminded me of you, it reminded me of us having some conversations that there's not a word in Spanish for resiliency mm-hmm. . Right. And so I just, yeah. I mean like that sense of like, there are ways that you will see it as a Latinx woman that will go right past my head as a black woman and, and if I'm wise, I will slow down and sit in that moment with you and be like, what do you know that I don't?How has God shown up in your culture in ways that he hasn't shown up in mind?Danielle (48:06):Well, I think it's gonna be good. Thanks for recording this, tj. AndYeah. And I know you gotta go.TJ (48:15):I do. But I appreciate you both. I respect you both. It's been really fun to work with you.Danielle (48:23):I'm glad we got into it because now I I, it, I think we were feeling our way around which, which part of the text gives us this. And I feel like we kind of just felt our way into that, you know? Mm. So that feels good to me, you know?Yeah. Okay. Bye.Rebecca (48:45):You. Thank you.TJ (48:46):Thank you 

On Episode 106: The Winter Haven Hug, we speak to Owners of Adlers, Jackleen and Wade Walston. Jackleen and Wade share about their journey to downtown Winter Haven, how collaboration has impacted their business and exciting things coming down the pipeline.

Show Notes This week Clelland welcomes Jeff Walston, with Premise Construction. Jeff walks us through the main differences between commercial construction and residential. He touches on the many pitfalls of the industry, as well as his passion for it that keeps him going. Topics Discussed in this episode: Commercial Construction & General Contracting Contractors vs. Employees OSHA Project Management Tech Cash Flow . Show Links Connect with Clelland! LinkedIn - Clelland Russell FB - @WhytheTrades . Guest Info Jeff Walston - Owner, Premise Construction FB - @PremiseConstructionInc IG - @PremiseConstructionInc LinkedIn - Premise Construction jeffwalston@premiseconstruction.com

Ever wondered HOW photographers get those *incredible* underwater shots you see all over Instagram?Well, wonder no more!This week I'm getting ALL the juicy details from pro underwater photographer, adventurer & ocean conservationist, Taylor Walston, as she takes us behind the scenes of her business and shows you *exactly* how she does what she does…You'll learn…How Taylor got into underwater photography and the key moments which changed her life and set her on her path [4.24]Why following your curiosity and making decisions that are aligned with your soul is crucial for building a unique, uncopyable business that you love (plus why no experience ever goes to waste!) [11.08]The one common piece of influencer-marketing advice that Taylor strategically ignored (and yet was still able to blow up online) [12.51]How to get started with underwater photography, gear recommendations, and the key safety principles you need to understand BEFORE getting started [19.39]Knowing your limits & capabilities in the water, hiring support, and how to build skills such as breath-hold work to help you in the water (whether in a pool, lake, ocean or otherwise) [24.24]A sneak peek into how some of those incredible shots you see on Instagram are created and the gear that will allow you to recreate them for yourself [30.04]How Taylor approaches underwater couples experiences from the planning & concepting, to shooting, to prompts & poses, and generally creating an amazing (and safe!) experience for her clients [36.51], [46.12]Taylor's approach to brand work and how to market yourself to big brands even if you don't have a large social media following or you're just getting started [49.31]Why being in flow as a photographer, whether in water or on land, is so important to your craft [44.27], [55.46]I hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as I enjoyed recording it! It feels so good to learn about a whole new area of photography and it certainly got my creative juices flowing ;) About my guest:Taylor Walston is a full time adventurer and underwater photographer & educator based in Hawaii. She loves documenting love and using her work to spread awareness for ocean conservation. To find out more about Taylor, be sure to check out the links in the show notes below.RESOURCES + LINKS:Taylor Walston's Website - https://taylorwalstoneducation.com/shop Taylor Walston's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/taylorrwalston/ My Online Photography Courses for YouOutsourcing Made Easy: Learn how you can have more time freedom AND financial freedom as a portrait/wedding photographer. Sign up for the waitlist here now! (doors reopen once a year)Crystal Clear Marketing: Learn how you can attract and book your dream photography clients - Sign up here!Intuitive Storytelling for Wedding Photographers: Learn how you can storytell like a pro on wedding days - Sign up here!Say hi to me on social! I would love to hear which episode helped you!Instagram: @saramonikaphotoSubscribeIf you're not subscribed to my podcast yet + you don't want to miss an episode make sure to do so right now before life gets in the way. Click here to subscribe in iTunes!Click here to leave a review!With love + gratitude,Sara

We are, as a general rule, living longer. The average life expectancy of Americans in 1960 was just over 69 years. In 2022, it's 79 years. A team of physicians and researchers at Johns Hopkins University have formed a group to study ways that we can stay healthy as we get older, exploring medical and technological fixes for what might ail us. Dr. Jeremy Walston is the director of the Johns Hopkins Human Aging Project and Raymond and Anna Lubin Professor of Geriatric Medicine and Gerontology at Johns Hopkins. Dr. Walston joins us on Zoom from Baltimore. Dr. Peter Abadir is a scholar at the Human Aging Project. He is an associate professor of Geriatric Medicine and Gerontology at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, and he holds a joint appointment in the School of Engineering. Dr. Abadir joins us on Zoom as well. Folks over 65 who would like to volunteer for the Human Aging Project can contact the team by email at hap@jhu.edu, or by calling the Healthy Aging Studies Unit at 410-550-2113. For more information on pathways to staying healthy in your later years, follow the link to Hopkins' Aging Well Website. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Drew Walston is a man on a mission — to eradicate veteran homelessness in the United States. But is such a worthy cause even possible? The short answer: yes! Take a listen to this episode as Drew not only talks about his goal to help give veterans a home, but also to help instill hope, purpose and community for the brave men and women who have put their lives on the line for our country.     Links ~   Website: http://www.mightyherohomes.org FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/MightyHeroHomes Contact: info@mightyherohomes.org     Keep up with Average Brad ~ http://www.averagebrad.com

Today, on this episode of The Sub2Deals Show, we welcome Special Guest Bill Walston as we discuss the topic of LLCs. There is so much misinformation out there right now on what kind of LLC you need, how soon you need to have one set up, what an LLC can do, and so on...I brought Bill in to give you the real story on when and why you need this tool in your real estate investing business. What You Will Learn * Why Do Investors Need an LLC * When Should You Form Your First LLC * Should You Use a Service to Create Your LLC Mentioned in This Episode Just Getting Started & on a Budget? Get the BEST Deal on Creative Finance & Sub2 Coaching on the PLANET! http://www.7dollarcoaching.com Want to Take Your Investing to the MAX? Take a look at Sub2MAX! Our Premium Group Coaching with William! Learn more and join us at: http://www.Sub2MAX.com Need Insurance for Your Investment Property? Contact Jason & Corey at BIG Insurance! http://www.bhaminsgroup.com Like the Podcast? ❤️ If you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a review on Apple Podcast.