Unthinkable Courageous Stories

Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 1Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 2Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 3Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 4FamilyLife Today® Radio TranscriptReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Out of the Depths Day 1 of 4 Guest:                            Ed Harrell From the Series:         The Sinking of the USS Indianapolis________________________________________________________________ Bob:                Sixty years ago this week on the night of July 30, 1945, just weeks before the end of World War II, a Japanese submarine launched torpedoes that would sink the USS Indianapolis.  Marine Ed Harrell was on board that night. Ed:                  When I actually left the ship, and there I prayed that somehow the Lord would see me through what lie ahead, and yet I had the foggiest idea that I'm going to be out there for four-and-a-half days.  There's times when you pray, and there's times when you pray, and there is a difference. Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, August 1st.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  Of the nearly 1,200 men who were onboard the Indianapolis on that night only 317 survived.  Ed Harrell was one of the survivors, and we'll hear his story today.                         And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Monday edition.  Dennis? Dennis:          Bob, I want you to imagine with me a pretty dramatic scene.  Just consider yourself being 20 years old, you're a Marine, you're tough, you're physically fit, but you're alone, you're in the ocean, you've just lost your ship, and you and about 80 others are floating in the middle of the night in the ocean in lifejackets.  We're going to hear a story – one of the most compelling stories I think I've ever heard from a gentleman who joins us on FamilyLife Today – one of the survivors of the USS Indianapolis. Bob:                A man who doesn't have to imagine what you just described because he lived through it. Dennis:          That's exactly right.  Ed Harrell joins us on FamilyLife Today.  Welcome to the broadcast, Ed. Ed:                  Thank you so much.  It's a delight to be with you. Dennis:          Ed is not only a survivor, but he was a businessman for 38 years.  He's served as a member of the board of trustees at Moody Bible Institute, a great ministry.  He and his wife Ola, who have been married since 1947 – that's a lot of years, that's a lot of years, live in Paris, Tennessee.  They have two children, eight grandchildren, and four great-grandchildren. Ed:                  That's right. Dennis:          You've lived quite a life, Ed, but you're one of the few, one of the few survivors of that tragedy.  Take us back, first of all, to when you signed up.  Why in the world did you sign up to be a Marine?  It was 1943, is that right? Ed:                  That's right, 1943.  I don't know that I can even know why I really did at the time, but I knew that the war was getting pretty close to home, it sounded to me.  In fact, when I heard that the Japanese and the American forces were having quite a battle at Midway, I was thinking that Midway was maybe between San Francisco and Hawaii, and so I thought, you know, they're getting pretty close to America, so, actually, I had just finished my junior year in high school, and I volunteered then for the Marine Corps. Bob:                You were 17, 18 years old? Ed:                  I was 18 when I – I actually became a Marine when I was 18. Bob:                You know, Ed, my son is a junior in high school, and the thought of my son saying, "I'm going to sign up to be a Marine in the middle of this kind of conflict, as a parent, I'm not sure I'd endorse that plan.  Were your parents behind it? Ed:                  Yes, I think they pretty much agreed.  Dad pretty much agreed.  They didn't necessarily want to see me leave, but they knew, too, the little Silvertone radio that we had was telling us quite a bit what was happening in the Pacific, and I didn't have much problem convincing them that I wanted to go.  In fact, I have two grandsons in the Marine Corps today. Dennis:          Do you remember that time when you said goodbye to your dad? Ed:                  I do.  My dad was 37 or 39 years old, and I thought he was an old man then, but I told him goodbye at the bus station. Dennis:          Did you hug? Ed:                  Yes, yes, we did. Dennis:          Were there tears? Ed:                  There were some tears, there were some tears. Dennis:          What did he say to you? Ed:                  I don't know that I can remember what he said, but I'm sure that the advice that he gave me, he was a fine Christian man, and I'm sure it was some good, solid advice that he was giving me. Bob:                Why the Marines?  Why did you pick them instead of the Army or the Navy or the Air Force? Ed:                  I wondered sometimes why if I picked the wrong one, but I really don't know.  I even considered, after I got in the Marine Corps, that I would be a paratrooper.  After I got through sea school, then they said – after I got through boot camp, they said, "You're going to sea school," and I didn't know what that meant, either, but I went through sea school, and then they said, "You're going aboard a large combatant ship," and so I waited, then, until the Indianapolis was in port and caught it at San Francisco. Dennis:          Before you left to join the Marines, you made another decision that was a life-altering decision. Ed:                  Yes, I did.  Yes, I did.  On the 1st of August, 1943, already a Marine and yet hadn't shown up even for my boot camp, I went to church on that Lord's Day morning, and seeming the Lord was saying to me, "Your last chance, your last chance," and the preacher preached a message, and he gave an invitation, he pronounced the benediction, and I sat there, I knew that my heart was not right with the Lord, and knowing that I was going into combat soon that I had to get things right with the Lord.  I know the pastor came back and sat down by me there.  Everyone else had left the building except two people – one was my wife later to be, and my mother-in-law later to be, and they were back in the back of the building there praying, and the pastor turned to a Scripture, Acts 16:31, which simply says, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved."  He said, "Ed, do you believe that?" Well, I was brought up in a Christian home and Sunday school, church all the time, but really never trusted the Lord as my own personal Savior.  And so he goes over that a time or two, and he said, "Ed, God who cannot lie, is making you a promise, and He simply says believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, the finished work of Christ on the cross for you, and He promises to save you."  And then he would look at me and said, "Do you believe that?"  And I said, "Yes, I believe that," and he said, "But does the Lord save you?"  "No."  Well, he went over it a time or two and there, in the quietness of that little pew there in the church, I trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal Savior.                         So later now, when I'm getting into the story of the actual sinking of the ship, I could really look back and rely on the faith and trust that I had in the Lord to care for me, even there in the water those days. Dennis:          Yeah, in fact, there's a line in your book, which basically says this – "The same Jesus Christ who became my Savior was now going to be the same Jesus Christ who saved my life." Ed:                  That's right.  When I actually left the ship, you know, abandoned the ship, I trusted the same Lord to take care of me there as I stepped over the railing and stepped into the water, and brought up in a Christ home and knew some Scripture.  But the Lord brought to mind there as I was about to abandon ship and seeing many of the boys actually jumping on each other in a desperate rush to get off the ship, and I hung onto that rail for a little while, and I prayed and oftentime I say when I give talks is that there's times when you pray, and there's times when you pray, and there is a difference.  And there I prayed that somehow the Lord would see me through what lie ahead, and yet I had the foggiest idea that I'm going to be out there for four-and-a-half days.                         But here from memory of His Word that he brought to mind – "Peace I give unto you not as the world give unto you, let not your heart to be troubled.  Don't be afraid."  And yet I'm scared to death.  And as I left the ship, then I left with the assurance I felt – God didn't speak to me in any audible form in any way, but just the assurance that I had from repeating His Word back to my heart, I knew that He was going to care for me. Dennis:          You did end up joining the Marines then, and you boarded the USS Indianapolis in San Francisco. Ed:                  In San Francisco. Dennis:          At that point, you had not been to war, you had not been in any battles, but that was soon to change, wasn't it? Ed:                  That's right.  Of course, to get aboard a large combatant ship like that, you know, that ship, you know, was 610 feet, 8 3/4 inches, and four or five stories high, and that's going to be my home, you know, for a time.  And then after I got aboard, then to see all those big guns that I'm going to have to learn how to fire those things, and I think I say in my book the biggest gun that I'd ever fired was a double-barreled shotgun, and yet here I'm going to be firing five-inch guns and 40 millimeter guns, so I'll be trained to do those things.                         Then I was at Saipan – actually, I was at Enewetak and Kwajalein Islands there in the Marshalls, then the first, really, combat was at Saipan then at Tinian and at Guam.  The sea battle of the Philippine Seas, that was at Palau, at Iwo Jima, at Okinawa, and later three air strikes on Tokyo and then, lastly, I was Marine guard that guarded the two atomic bomb – components of the bombs that we took over to our B-29 base on the island of Tinian. Bob:                And you didn't know, when you got on board the Indianapolis in San Francisco Harbor, you didn't know what else was on board with you.  You didn't know that you had … Ed:                  We did not know. Bob:                … the two atomic bombs that were going to be dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Ed:                  We knew it was top-secret cargo.  We understood, even, that the captain of the ship didn't know what we had; that he had been told that what he had, we needed to get it to the forward area – that every hour would save lives, and I was a guard that guarded – or, actually, I was a corporal of the guard, and I stationed guards both on the two places that we had the components of the bomb. Bob:                San Francisco to Tinian – how long a trip is that in the water? Ed:                  We made a record speed run.  We traveled those 5,400 or so miles in 10 days. Bob:                Wow. Ed:                  So, can you imagine a heavy cruiser traveling, like, 32 miles an hour across the Pacific?  So we made a record speed run to Tinian Island and got rid of our cargo. Dennis:          And you got rid of the cargo, made the turn, and you were to participate with another ship? Ed:                  We received orders at CENPAC there in Guam, the Central Pacific Command, to proceed to the Philippines, but we were to – yes, we were to join up with the USS Idaho, I think, three days later, to make a gun re-practice as we went into the Philippines, because the main invasion of Japan was to take place in November of '45. Dennis:          We're not going to go into the detail that surrounds, really, a great controversy about the USS Indianapolis, because some information was withheld about the enemy being in the waters – enemy subs – and you guys sailed into harm's way without realizing it.  But you were in the process of making your way to join up with the USS Idaho, and it was really an uneventful trip.  You weren't even going all that fast at that point, right? Ed:                  As I mentioned, we had traveled 32 knots going into Tinian, and then when we received orders then to go on to the Philippines, Captain McVay requested, or they gave him permission to travel only at 17 knots, to slow down, because we had nearly burned the motors up, you know, getting the cargo over.  So we had slowed back to 17 knots going on to the Philippines. Dennis:          You were one day away from connecting with the USS Idaho, and was it the middle of the night? Ed:                  Well, we were to have met them the next day in the daytime, but we encountered Commander Hoshimoto at about five minutes after midnight on the night of July 30, 1945. Bob:                Now, where were you when that happened?  Were you asleep in your bunk? Ed:                  No, the Indianapolis was a pretty modern ship, but we did not have air-conditioning, and in order to get any sleep at night, you went topside.  So I was on watch 'til 12:00.  At 12:00 I went to my locker, and I got my blanket, and I went topside, and I went up under the barrels of number 1 turret, and I took off my shoes and used kind of the arch of my shoe as a pillow, and I rolled up in my blanket, and it was about five minutes or so after midnight that the first explosion, we took the first torpedo.  And about as long as it would take Commander Hoshimoto to say, "Fire one, fire two," and he fired six, but two of them hit us, and the first one cut the bow of the ship off.  If you could see the picture of the ship, you could see that those barrels on number 1 turret, forward big 8-inch guns, they're about 18 feet long, and I'm sleeping right down on the deck under the barrels of those guns and looking forward of me, maybe 25, 30 feet or so, the bow of the ship is cut off – about 50 feet.  Some said 65 feet, but I don't think it was that much.  I think it was more of a 40 feet or so.  The bow of the ship was cut off, so we became a funnel, then, as we were moving through the water, and then the second explosion then was aft of me, nearly midship and close to the marine compartment, and it made a big gaping hole.                         And, of course, since we had no air conditioning, we were traveling at a – you might say, at an open condition in that all of our bulkheads down below were open, and they had to be open or else we would suffocate without air conditioning.  So that was a death blow, likewise, because as we were moving forward in the water, all of that water … Dennis:          It just poured in the front. Ed:                  It was rushing in, and even before I could get back to my emergency station, which was back at midship, the bow of the ship is already under.  I mean, the deck of the bow of the ship, like, the first 100 yards or so, is already under. Dennis:          Was there still light on the ship at this point, or had the torpedoes knocked out the electricity. Ed:                  All the electricity was knocked out. Dennis:          So you're in the middle of the night … Ed:                  But we had light in that there was an inferno below decks.  They say that number 2 turret took a hit, and the magazine in number 2 turret had exploded and came through all the way up so that it was just a big fire, a big blaze, coming up through there.  And then most other places below decks forward of midship was an inferno.  And so you get a certain amount of light, you know, from that. Dennis:          You said when the torpedoes hit, and the boat blew up, blew the front end off, that there was a huge amount of water that went up in the air, and it drenched you and ultimately kept you from burning up? Ed:                  I think two things – number one, of course, I believe in the providence of God, number one.  I had the blanket around me, and that protected me, no doubt, maybe from much of the blast of the fire at the first explosion, and then all of the water, then, from that first explosion that went up in the air, I don't know I could imagine 50 to 100 feet plus, then all of that coming back down.  Well, I was drenched, you know, with all the water, as it came back down, and that kind of protected me somewhat, I'm sure, from much of the flash burn that many were getting. Bob:                Ed, when something like that happens, it's disorienting at first.  You're thinking, "Did something explode down in the engine room," you're kind of trying to get your bearings.  How long do you think it was before you realized, "We're under attack, we've been hit," and you caught a sense of what was going on? Ed:                  I think immediately when we were hit, I wondered, "We aren't firing at anyone," and then just those three explosions, and no one now is firing back at us.  So we had to have either hit a mine or we had to have been hit by a torpedo.  And then realizing nearly immediately that forward part of the ship was cut off, and I could hear the bulkheads breaking down below and they, to me, were a death blow.  You could imagine, you know, with all that water, with the ship still moving 17 knots or so, and the funnel there coming – all of the water coming in, and the bulkheads breaking, you knew that the ship was doomed, and as I began to make my way, then, back to my emergency station, which was back to midship, and there were those that were coming from internally coming out, and that part of the ship, really, was kind of the officers' quarters up there. Many of those were in the flash burns, and as they came out, literally, flesh was hanging from their face and from their arms, and they were in panic and begging for someone to give them some help.  But, you know, that's not my responsibility, and I have to make my way to my emergency station, which was on the quarterdeck.  And, of course, when I get to the quarterdeck, then, I'm realizing that the ship is already under forward part, and there's no question that it's sinking.  So as word actually came to abandon ship, I had made my way to the port side, and there on the quarterdeck, there's a steel cable, a rail, as we call it, and I got ahold of the rail, and I hung on there and said my prayer, you know, before I actually stepped over the rail and stepped about two big, long steps and jumped into the water feet first. My kapok jacket then came up over my head.  If you could visualize that the deck of the ship now is listing so that you step over, and you walk down the keel of the ship, walk down the side of ship, and so I could have nearly walked to the water, but I walked down closer to the water, and then jumped in feet first and then began to come up and push that oil back that was on the water and then to try to get my head up above that, and then swam away from the ship about maybe 50 yards, and then we began to congregate, you know, in little groups.  The ship had still been moving, so boys had been getting off maybe for two or three or four minutes.  I actually watched the ship as she went under. Bob:                Did you think this was it for you? Ed:                  I wondered, and yet I really felt – and I don't say this in any boasting way of any kind, but I really had the assurance that somehow, some way, that I would make it. Dennis:          You felt like God … Ed:                  I felt assurance that – "Don't be afraid, don't be afraid.  I'm with you," and I think when you hear all of my story, you'll see the various times that He came to my assurance that "I'm still with you," all the way through – the different things that happened for the next three days. Bob:                Yes, and we're going to hear the rest of your story over the next couple of days.  Of course, it is told in the book that you've written called "Out of the Depths," which is a compelling story of God's faithfulness in the midst of remarkable adversity, and I want to encourage our listeners, you can get a copy of the book from us when you contact us here at FamilyLife.                           Go to our website at FamilyLife.com.  Down at the bottom of the screen there's a button there that says, "Go."  You click on that button, it will take you right to a page where you can find information about ordering Ed's book.  Again, it's called "Out of the Depths."  We also have our conversation this week with Ed Harrell available on CD.                           We also have a book that our friend, Chip Ingram, has written that is a reflection on pivotal chapters from the Psalms where David experienced the same thing that you've talked about, Ed, which is the presence of God in the midst of trial and adversity.  He's written a book called "I Am With You Always."  It's a book that reminds us that the Lord is faithful to hear the cry of our heart; that He is there for us in times of great trial like you experienced.                          In fact, any of our listeners who wanted to get your book and Chip's book together, we'd send them the CD that has our conversation with you.  We'd send it along at no additional cost.  Again, go to our website, FamilyLife.com, click the "Go" button at the bottom of the screen.  That will take you right to the page where there is more information.  Or call 1-800-FLTODAY.  That's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and we've got folks on our team who will be happy to let you know how you can have these resources sent to you.                         You know, speaking of resources, Dennis, one of the most requested resources we've had in our FamilyLife Resource Center this year has been two CDs from a conversation you and I had with Shaunti Feldhahn.  She wrote a book called "For Women Only."  It was based on the research she had done, conversations with more than 1,000 men about the deepest needs and the deepest longing in men's hearts.  And that conversation really resonated with a number of our listeners.  This month we are making that two-CD set available to any of our listeners who would contact us in August to make a donation of any amount to the ministry of FamilyLife Today.                         It's our way of saying thank you for helping to support this ministry.  We are listener-support, and it's your donations that keep us on the air in this city and in cities all across the country.  So this month, if you can go online to make a donation or call 1-800-FLTODAY to make a donation, just mention that you'd like the CD set for women.  In fact, if you're donating online, when you get to the keycode box just type in "CD," those two letters, and we'll know that you want to have these CDs sent to you.                         Again, our website is FamilyLife.com or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY to make a donation, and we appreciate you standing with this ministry financially.                         Well, tomorrow we're going to begin to hear the story of how Ed Harrell and others survived for four days afloat in the Pacific.  I hope our listeners can be back with us for that.                         I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.  On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll see you tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.                          FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.  ________________________________________________________________ We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.  However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would   you consider donating today to help defray the costs?        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Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 1Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 2Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 3Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 4FamilyLife Today® Radio TranscriptReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Out of the Depths Day 2 of 4 Guest:                           Ed Harrell From the Series:         Mercy at Sea________________________________________________________________ Bob:                Sixty years ago this week, Ed Harrell was afloat in the Pacific.  His ship, the cruiser USS Indianapolis, had been sunk by Japanese torpedoes.  Many of the crew members had not escaped. Those who had, found themselves battling for their lives on the open seas with no help in sight.  What was in sight were sharks. Ed:                  You can't imagine, and I can't explain, you know, the feeling that you have.  You know that at any moment that the shark could get you, and you wonder, you know, am I going to be next?  You know, you pray and you pray more, and you pour your heart out to the Lord, and just hope and pray that somehow, some way, that He will be faithful to the promise that you feel that He's made to you and that you'll be able to endure. Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, August 2nd.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll hear a powerful story today of courage and faith as we speak with one of the survivors of the USS Indianapolis.                         And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.  I somehow missed this in my study of U.S. history.  I don't know that I ever was aware that on the night of July 30, 1945, just weeks before the end of World War II, a Japanese submarine, I-58, launched a spread of torpedoes at the USS Indianapolis in the Pacific Theater. Two of those torpedoes found their mark and, in less than 15 minutes, this cruiser sank in the Marianas, and there were almost 1,200 men on board the ship.  More than 800 of those men did not survive the attack or the days that followed that attack.  And I don't know, Dennis, that I'd ever heard about that battle or about the sinking of the ship, but it's truly a compelling story, especially when you consider that some 300 men were rescued days later. Dennis:          Yes, and we have one of those men who was rescued back with us.  Ed Harrell joins us again on FamilyLife Today.  Ed, welcome back. Ed:                  Thank you. Dennis:          I want to express my appreciation for you, as a veteran, just for serving our nation and also for coming here on our broadcast and telling the story, a dramatic story, of what has to be one of the most phenomenal survival stories, really, Bob, in all of the World War II and maybe in the history of the United States.  I mean, what you had to endure and go through.  But we'll get to that in just a moment.                          Ed is a businessman, was on the board of trustees of Moody Bible for a number of years.  He and his wife Ola [ph] have a couple of children and a number of grandchildren and great-grandchildren, and he is a survivor of the USS Indianapolis.  Ed, I want you to take our listeners back, because you shared earlier the story of standing on the deck of this boat – this great, massive boat, over 600 feet long, at midnight as it's sinking in less than 15 minutes.  What were you hearing at that moment?  It's pitch black, there's a little bit of light from the fires that are burning midship, but what was the sound like?  Was it of screams of people?  Were there explosions? Ed:                  There were still explosions going on for a good while.  In fact, when the ship actually went under there were still explosions that were taking place below deck.  I don't know that I'm waiting to listen to see what might be taking place.  I am eager to get off, and I make my way, then, to the port side and hung onto that rail and said my prayer before I entered into the water, and I knew, beyond any shadow of doubt, that the Lord had, through the Spirit, was bearing witness with my spirit that He was with me and that I would make it, somehow, some way.                           I know, later on, when I was interviewed, they asked me, "What were you thinking out there?  Did you think that you were going to make it?"  And I said, "I thought of the 30-day leave that I would get for being a survivor and be able to go home," because I hadn't been home for a good while, and I was thinking about going home, frankly. Bob:                You had one what you've described as a kapok jacket, a life preserver, is that what that was? Ed:                  That's right. Bob:                And I guess I'm wondering – were there lifeboats on board the ship?  Were there inflatable rafts?  Was it "man the lifeboats?" Ed:                  No word of that kind was given.  In fact, you didn't have time, they didn't have time.  I could look up and see life rafts hanging, and those kapok jackets hanging, but no word was given to cut those loose, and I never saw a life raft.  There were floater nets, likewise, that later floated up, and they spread them out, and boys could somewhat stand in those – not completely, but at least it would keep the sharks from coming up through after them.  And then the life rafts, then, some of those floated loose, but I never saw a raft, I never saw one in the water the whole time. Dennis:          That first moment you hit the water, you burst through the surface, you got clear of the oil so you could breathe.  Did you begin swimming away from the sinking ship at that point?  I mean, again, to those of us who are laymen, a ship going down is supposed to create some kind of vacuum or – and suck survivors back down after it.  Did that occur? Ed:                  That was my thinking, and I was I a rush – not necessarily a good swimmer, but I was in a rush to get away from the ship, and I got away from it maybe 50 yards, then, to turn, then, to watch it as it sank.  I could still hear some explosions as it was going under.  Then, actually, as the ship went under, and all of that water that was in the bow, you know, you can imagine the ship is going down and all the water in there, as it's pushing up through the ship, the ship is giving a real – I call it kind of a whissing sound in that that area is pushing out, and a tremendous amount of air is coming out of the ship as it went under, and I could hear that.  But that was about – no suction.  Different ones claim that they actually were pulled under and some with kapok jackets were pulled under, and then the kapok jacket then pulled them back up.  So it wasn't the suction that I had been led to believe that would be the case in such a sinking. Bob:                And it's the middle of summer in the South Pacific, so I'm imagining that water temperature may have been warm?  Although you had a blanket around you when you were on board ship.  Was it chilly? Ed:                  Well, we were traveling, you know, right out in the open about 17 knots, so 15 miles an hour, so to speak, and I needed that blanket around me to keep the chill off of me, because it would be a little chilly and, yes, at night the water was cool.  In fact, the water in the Pacific at that time was about 85 degrees and, of course, if you stay in the water, you know, long, at 85 degrees then your body temperature is going to drop to 85 degrees or close to that.                         Yet, in the daytime, then, you're going to warm up to 100 degrees.  So you burn up in the daytime, and you're desperate for water because you're swimming most of the time.  You're either swimming to stay in a group, or you're swimming to get back into a group when you've come upon a swell, and you've kind of been separated.  And you can imagine, you know, when we had 50 or 70 or so boys, and you go up on a swell 20-feet high, and that breaks away, then you're separated maybe by 50 yards.  So just nearly immediately, even the first day, we learned that we needed to take our kapok jackets and kind of hook onto each other and stay and keep – even keep some of those – in fact, we had some that didn't have life jackets, and we had some boys that were injured, and we'd try to keep them in the center of our group or else we were separated completely. Bob:                How big was your group that you were linked together with?  That first night you swam over to a group and I'm sure started talking about what do we do and how do we prepare for whatever is ahead.  How many guys were around you? Ed:                  There were 80 in our – the best that we could count, there were 80 in our group and, of course, again, it's night, right after midnight, but the best that we could take inventory, there were 80 of us.  I had two other Marines with me, and one of them had been blown up against the bulkhead.  He had multiple breaks in his body, and he couldn't stand for me to even hardly touch him, to give him any assistance.  But he did have a life jacket, and then the other Marine buddy, then, had gone into the water head first and had gotten all that oil, then, in his eyes, and he's going to suffer with that, now, the next few days – tremendous suffering that he experienced the next few days. Dennis:          Do you remember the dawn on that first morning? Ed:                  I can remember the dawn very well the first morning, because we had company.  We had sharks, and we had lost maybe a dozen or so boys that night … Dennis:          … of the 80? Ed:                  Of the 80, and yet we still had their kapoks and them with us, and then sometime, then, up in the morning there – I don't recall just exactly how and when we did it, but we removed their dogtags and someone supposedly kept those, and then we released them and gave them, you know, a so-called proper burial there at sea, and someone – there was an officer or two there with us that someone would say The Lord's Prayer, and that was about the extent of their burial, and then – it was up in the day, maybe a little bit later before the sharks really began to come around us too much.  And, really, they didn't seem to want to attack our group.  As long as we stayed in a group, they didn't bother our group. But if someone would stray from the group – and that's another reason why we tried to fasten ourselves together and form a circle to keep everyone intact – if someone would break loose and swim out, then, all of a sudden, you would hear a bloodcurdling scream, and you'd look and see that kapok jacket went under, and then suddenly, then, it would come back up and there would be sharks and there would be fighting over the remains there for a little bit.  So that began to take place all that first day. Dennis:          That had to be absolutely terrifying.  I mean – I can't even begin to fathom how fear would grip an individual but also a group of people.  I mean, you'd see the dorsal fins above the surface, circling you? Ed:                  We'd see them circling us and nearly, at any given time, if maybe you didn't see them, and you'd wonder, "Well, maybe they've gone."  Just put your head in the water and, of course, you could see them – you know, maybe there would be 20, you know, 12, 15-foot sharks swimming around down under you.  Whether they are attacking you or not, you know, you're still frightened to death.  They would be swimming under you and around you and even through the group.  Then, you know, you draw your feet up tight, you draw your gut up, and you're so tense that – well, you can't imagine, and I can't explain, you know, the feeling that you have when you know that at any moment that the shark could get you. And maybe the next moment, your buddy that's within five feet of you, a shark hits him and takes a leg off or disembowels him or an arm is gone, and yet you wonder, you know, "Am I going to be next?"  And yet, you know, you pray more, and and you pour your heart out to the Lord, and just hope and pray that somehow, some way, that He will be faithful to the promise that you feel that He's made to you, and that you'll be able to endure.  But you wonder, too, how much longer, you know, can you endure?  And then when you see, you know, maybe by the second day that 20 of them or so are gone, and by the third day at noon, there are 17 of us. I had a sailor come up to me and said, "Hey, Marine, see that island over there?  I just came from over there."  He said, "Captain Parks [ph], Lieutenant Stouffer [ph], Sergeant Cromley [ph], they're over there.  They're having a picnic.  They want you to come over," and, you know, you would hear him, and you would think that he knows exactly what he's talking about but, you know, you've seen what's been happening here for these two days and see the boys that had succumbed to drinking some of the their salt water and then see, within 15 minutes, after they have had a good drink of salt water, you'd see them begin to hallucinate and begin to thrash in the water and begin to scream and yell and just all kinds of contortions, and then you knew what is going to happen. I know this one that saw my Marine buddies out there, he swam away, and he got away maybe 25 yards and, all of a sudden, that bloodcurdling scream, and I looked to see, and saw that kapok jacket go under, and a little bit later then the kapok comes back up with part of the body still fastened to the kapok jacket. Bob:                There had to be just an ongoing cycle of fear and grief.  I mean, fear because sharks are all around you.  You don't know if there's anybody that even knows you're out there, what's going to happen to you?  And then the grief – these are buddies.  These are guys you lived on board ship with, even if you hadn't met them before, for the last 24 hours, you've been in the water with these guys.  You're in a foxhole, and to watch them swim away and watch a shark take their life over and over again.   Ed:                  That's right. Bob:                The grief in your heart – how did you handle that emotional trauma? Ed:                  You had to keep praying, and I know my one Marine buddy that actually did make it – not in my group – later, he left us, and – but, anyway, he was a survivor, and he tells in his testimony that Harrell – I actually was his squad leader, and he said, "Harrell, he was always praying and quoting Scripture," and he called me a hard-shell Christian.  I told him later, I said, "You could have called me a hard-head Christian.  But he called me a "hard-headed Christian.  He was always praying and quoting Scripture."                         And he was asked, "Do you think that did any good?  Did that help to save you?"  And he said, "Well, we survived, and I think it did." Dennis:          You quoted the 23rd Psalm over and over and over again. Ed:                  Right. Dennis:          That brought comfort to your soul? Ed:                  You know, when you think of the psalm, you say, "The Lord is my shepherd, He maketh me to lie down" – the words "He" the personal pronoun, the Lord.  And then after you say it a time or two, then you say, "The Lord is MY shepherd.  He maketh ME to lie down in green pastures."  And so you apply it to your own heart, and then you feel that He hears you and that He responds and then you see a buddy then go, and then you're spared, and then you feel that the Lord, that somehow, some way, has given you assurance that He's still with you, that you're going to make it.                         And then on the second day, you know, when you're so thirsty that you're tongue begins to swell in your mouth, and you get to where you can't talk properly, and you're praying for water, swimming in it, but you know that you can't drink it, you know the poison that it contains, especially in a dehydrated body, and you've seen your buddies drink some of that.  I saw boys, as they would hold – tear off some of their clothing and take some water and put it up in that piece of cloth and put their head down under it and drink some of that, thinking that maybe it's got some of the salt out.  They were desperate for water.  And yet maybe in 15 minutes, then you begin to see them jerk and quiver and thrash in the water, and then they began to be not too coherent, and they began to imagine all kinds of things. And so I knew I couldn't drink that, but then you pray for water, and it was sometime that second day that we had prayed and even as a group we prayed.  I often say that there's no such thing as an atheist in foxholes and no atheist out there.  Everybody either prayed, or they would ask you to pray, and we prayed.  And so we're praying for water.  We have to have it, or else we aren't going to survive, we think.  And then after our little prayer meeting, then to look up and see a little cloud out in the distance, and seeing, as it got closer and closer, and as it got closer, you know, you could see that it's raining.  And you open your mouth heavenward, you know, and you thank the Lord, and you take your hands, and you put up to your mouth, and you kind of funnel the water as that little cloud moved over.  I don't know whether I got two or three tablespoons full of water, but nevertheless I got some water there on that second day, and then there were other reminders later in the other days where the Lord gave me assurance that He was with me. Dennis:          It's been 60 years.  I'm listening to you tell this story with emotion that seems as fresh as though it happened yesterday – the Lord is my Shepherd, He leadeth me, He restores. Ed:                  Right. Dennis:          And, you know, in hearing your story, there has to be listeners right now who may not be in the middle of an ocean, but they're in the middle of a crisis, and they're encircled, and it's pain, it's panic, it's chaos, it's bedlam.  The Lord is still the same Good Shepherd.  He invites you to come unto Him, and He'll lead you beside the quiet streams and the green pastures, and He will restore.  But you have to take Him at His word, and you have to pray that prayer, Ed, like you prayed – "The Lord is MY shepherd," I am praising, He does lead me and for that person right now, I just would invite you.  Maybe you've given the 23rd Psalm 100 times, maybe you've read it, memorized it, maybe it's time to believe it and to express it. Bob:                I don't know if you've seen it, but our friend, Chip Ingram, has written a new book called "I Am With You Always," which explores pivotal chapters from the Psalms, and the design is to help all of us understand that in the midst of adversity, in the midst of trial – King David went through great trials.  God was with him.  When we go through trials, God is with us.  When you went through your trials out in the Pacific 60 years ago this week, God was with you, Ed.                           And we've got Chip's book in our FamilyLife Resource Center.  In fact, we've got the book you wrote, as well, called "Out of the Depths," which tells the story of the sinking of the Indianapolis and your survival of that disaster.  Any of our listeners who want to contact us to get both of those books, we'll send you at no additional cost the CDs that have our conversation this week with Ed Harrell.  And, in fact, they have expanded material, because we are not able to include all of the interview in our broadcast time.  So you'll get the complete interview with Ed Harrell when you contact us.                         Go to our website, FamilyLife.com.   At the bottom of the screen you'll see a little button that says "Go" with "Today's Resources" around it.  Click that button, it will take you right to the page where you can get more information about these resources.  You can order online.  Again, the website is FamilyLife.com, and you click the "Go" button at the bottom of the screen.  Or if it's easier to call, you can call 1-800-FLTODAY.  That's 1-800-358-6329, 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and someone on our team can help you get these resources sent out to you.                         When you do contact us, if you're able to make a donation for the ministry of FamilyLife Today during the month of August, there is an additional resource we would love to send you as a thank you gift.  Back a few months ago, we had a conversation with Shaunti Feldhahn, who is the author of a book called "For Women Only."  We featured that interview on FamilyLife Today back in the spring, and it was immediately well received by our listeners.  I think they found it very helpful.  Shaunti had done research with more than 1,000 men, asking them about what is at the core of what a man needs in a relationship with his wife, and some of the responses were surprising, very revealing.  We'd like to send those two CDs to you as our way of saying thank you this month when you make a donation of any amount to support the ministry of FamilyLife Today.                         Just ask for the CDs for women when you call 1-800-FLTODAY or if you're online, and you're filling out a donation form, just type the two letters "CD" in the keycode box, and that will let us know that you'd like to have the Shaunti Feldhahn CDs sent to you.  Again, our website is FamilyLife.com, or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY and, again, thanks in advance for whatever you are able to do in terms of helping with our financial needs during the month of August.                         Well, tomorrow we're going to be back to continue our conversation with Ed Harrell.  We'll hear about how you almost gave up hope on the third day that you were at sea.  In fact, some of the guys who were with you did give up hope.  We'll hear more about that tomorrow.  I hope our listeners can be back with us for that.                         I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.  On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll see you tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.                          FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.  ________________________________________________________________ We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.  However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would   you consider donating today to help defray the costs?         Copyright © FamilyLife.  All rights reserved.       www.FamilyLife.com

Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 1Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 2Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 3Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 4FamilyLife Today® Radio TranscriptReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Out of the Depths Day 3 of 4 Guest:                        Ed Harrell From the Series:       Survival in the South Pacific ________________________________________________________________  Bob:                Sixty years ago this week, Ed Harrell was one of a few hundred men floating in the Pacific following the sinking of the USS Indianapolis.  In the four days that he was afloat, Ed saw some of his fellow sailors drift away from the group to be eaten by sharks.  Some who tried to swim toward an imaginary shore who never came back.  For Ed, the memories are vivid. Ed:                  I can see it today, and I think maybe I'd like to look at it and say that the Lord reminds me, even today, of those incidents, and as He reminds me of those, then they help to strengthen my faith and my resolve to live a life for Him today. Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, August 3rd.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  Where did Ed Harrell's hope come from when it appeared all reason for hope was gone?  Stay with us.                         And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.  You know, we've heard a story this week, Dennis, about a ship under attack.  And then we've heard about the ongoing horror and terror of living in the middle of the ocean, bundled up with your buddies, hooked with your lifejackets to one another as the sharks encircle you in the waters and wondering, "Does anyone even know we're out here or will we die at sea?"  No food, no fresh water except for a thundercloud that comes by and gives you a little bit of a rain shower.  You hear a story like this, and you wonder where does the will to survive in the midst of that come from?  I think of myself and think, "When would I just lay my head back and say, "Okay, I'm ready to die.  I'd rather do that than keep living like this." Dennis:          Yes, in fact, there's a story that Ed Harrell, who joins us again on FamilyLife Today.  Ed, welcome back to the broadcast. Ed:                  Thank you. Dennis:          There's a story you tell, Ed, of a Marine buddy who was ready to do the very thing Bob was talking about.  He was ready to quit, and you kind of – the picture I had from reading your book was you kind of grabbed him by the life jacket and looked him in the eyes, and you gave him a reason to believe. Ed:                  I pretty much gave him an ultimatum, really, in that he had tried to convince me that he was going to commit suicide.  He'd gone into the water head first and all of that oil in his eyes and then, you know, you can imagine – you take your hand, and you try to rub that oil out, but the more you rub your eye, you're rubbing salt in, and you're kind of taking that salt that's in the water, you're grinding your eyeballs with that.  And then the sun then, you know, beaming off of that water, then through the daytime.  By the second day, Spooner was determined that he was going to commit suicide, and he mentioned that two or three times.                         Anyway, I recall that I just got ahold of Spooner, and I turned him to me, and I kind of looked him squarely in the eye, and I said, "Spooner, there's only two of we Marines out here, and whenever a sailor is gone, there's still going to be two Marines, and you're going to be one of them with me," and I kind of turned him to me, and I fashioned – hooked his lifejacket then onto mine, and I swam with him then through that night, and then – it was sometime then the third morning that he wanted me to release him, and he made a vow to me that he would fight for life as long as there was breath in him because of him being able to survive as long as he had through that night, and I released him, then, the next day. Bob:                You and some 300 of your shipmates survived in the waters in the Pacific from the time that your boat was attacked just after midnight on the 30th of July in 1945 when the Indianapolis went under in about 15 minutes.  You survived for a period of, what was it, four days, five days? Ed:                  It was four-and-a-half days, yes. Bob:                And you survived that, as you've already shared with us this week, there was – was it just a single rain shower that passed over that gave you a little bit of water? Ed:                  Right, that's all the rain that we had the whole time I was out there, that's right. Bob:                So you're in salt water, you had a few tablespoons of fresh water in a four-and-a-half day period – any food? Ed:                  Well, let's come to the next day.  The third day, when there were 17 of us, and we had literally had a prayer meeting.  I mean, nearly everybody prayed. Bob:                You'd started with 80, and now you're down to 17. Ed:                  Right.   Dennis:          The sharks had picked off that many? Ed:                  That's right – well, sharks and – you mentioned somebody giving up – you know, I saw any number of boys that maybe at one minute you'd think, "Well, they're still alive," and just a little bit later you'd see that they just all of a sudden – seemingly, they just allowed their head to drop into the water, and they didn't have the energy to raise up, and they didn't care.  I recall that third day that we had had a prayer meeting, and everyone nearly was praying, and some would ask that you would pray for them, you know, they had – some had some children back home that they had never seen, and so on, and they were desperate to make it.  And, you know, "If you make it, and I don't make it, will you go by and see my family" and – "but don't tell them the gruesome things that are happening."                         Anyway, we'd had a prayer meeting, and we got through with a prayer meeting there on that third day, and then we came upon the swell, and we looked off to a distance, and we could see that there looked like a little makeshift of a raft that was coming into our group.  And after a period of time, we yelled at them, and they back at us, and it wasn't long until they made it into our group.  There were five sailors, and they had a makeshift of a raft consisting of, like, two 40-millimeter ammunition cans and three crates, like, a wooden slatted potato crate or an orange crate.  And as they came into our group, I recognized that there were lifejackets that they had taken off of boys that had already expired, and they had squeezed those out the best that they could, because a life – a kapok jacket will last, maybe, 48 hours, but we've already long passed that.                         So when they came in our group, they said that they were swimming to the Philippines; that if we could get close enough to the Philippines that maybe someone would see us.  And, at that time, we were nearly convinced that no word had gotten out, and yet 50 years later we found out that it did.  But, anyway, they wanted to know if anyone wanted to join them – swim to the Philippines, pushing that little raft. Bob:                That was hundreds of miles away, right? Ed:                  Probably 500 miles.  We didn't know that.  So I looked at my buddy, Spooner, and I said, "Spooner, I'm going to go.  I'm going to join them," and he said, "Harrell, if you go, I'm going to go," and so here are two Marines and five sailors began to say goodbye to our 15 other sailors, and we're going to swim to the Philippines, we thought.  So here we start. Dennis:          Was there anything said by the guys you left?  Did they say, "That's foolish to do that? Ed:                  They did.  They thought it was foolish.  They said the sharks will get you, and, well, you know, they've already gotten the bigger part of us, and there was really no – seemingly, no advantage to just stay and somewhat hope against hope and do what we can. Dennis:          So you swam out past the perimeter where those sharks had been circling that group of boys? Ed:                  We left our group and, after an hour or two, then, swimming, actually, I recall that after we had gone a distance we could see the sun setting in the west, and we thought, "Well, we'll be able to see the moon, we'll be able to see the Southern Cross, we'll be able to see the sun now as it sets, and we can tell that we're going to the Philippines, and the Philippines are big enough that we're bound to get in close enough that someone will see us."                         Well, after we had gone a good distance, we came upon a swell, and I could look off into at a distance, and I saw some debris out at the starboard side out maybe a couple of hundred yards or so, and a 100 yards ahead of us, and I called it to the attention of the others.  And at first we thought, "Well, it's one of our buddies out there," but then as we got closer, we could tell that it was debris of some kind, not one of ours, and so, you know, you pray for food.  What's the possibility, you know, could there be food out there, and so we prayed.  And I know I said, "I tell you what, if you'll keep going straight, I'm going to swim out and get that.  If it's just a crate, then we'll bring it in and fasten it onto our others here, but let's hope and pray that it could be food."                         Well, they thought I was foolish again, because the sharks maybe would get a straggler out there, but, really, I felt a real compelling force that says, "Go for it.  Go and see what it might be."  And I know, as I swam and got closer and closer to that crate, I'm praying for food, I'm praying for water, anything, you know, and as I got close enough that I could see those potatoes in that crate.  Kind of in desperation, I didn't pause to thank the Lord for what I'm about to eat but, in desperation, I'm making my way to those potatoes, and I reached in to get that first potato.  Kind of in the agony of defeat, all that rotten potato began to squeeze through my fingers, and as I kind of squeezed that in despair then, all of a sudden, it was solid potato on the inside.  You know, that was some food that I needed, some starch, and some water in that.                         Then I began to peel some of them, then, and fill my dungaree pockets full, and then I began to make my way back, then, to my buddies, with still a lot of potatoes in the crate.  We had a feast.  Oftentimes, I talk to young people, I say, you know, we had a picnic and no ants to bother us. Dennis:          You had sharks, though. Ed:                  We had sharks, we had sharks. Dennis:          You describe in your book that on more than one occasion, the sharks would be circling, and you would look up, and there would be a dorsal fin headed straight toward you. Ed:                  Right.  I know, many times, I had a fin coming straight toward me.  I knew that I was looking into eternity the next second, and yet as he got to me, he just went under, and I felt the dorsal fin as it hit me, and then him to go by.  And maybe then – momentarily then – another one would come through and take a buddy next to you, and yet the Lord, you know, spared me, and, you know, you have to be so mindful of all that the Lord does for you through your life and especially on occasions like that. Bob:                Did you ever lose hope?  Day 4 – the fourth night you've been through, did you ever think, "We're not going to make it.  We're going to die out here." Ed:                  Oh, I'm sure I thought that many times.  I wondered how much longer can a body really endure.  I lost about 27 pounds there in those four days, and, you know, how much more can you endure? Dennis:          Hold it – 27 pounds.  How do you lose 27 pounds in four days? Ed:                  I don't know.  There's others that say that they lost 30 or 40 pounds.  But, you know, dehydration does that to you and then, of course, you might think that we aren't swimming all the time, but basically we are swimming or fighting to be able to stay erect and to not allow the water to slosh over on us and get us strangled and cause us to drink the water.  So you're fighting the situation all the time and especially in the daytime, you know, the swells and all. Bob:                You're trying to stay on top of the swells, keep your head up above the water. Ed:                  That's right. Dennis:          Ed, I listened to your ordeal, and you describe in your book how, at this point, it was Wednesday evening.  You'd been in the water 66 hours.  You had to be near death, and your spirit had to be, as Bob was talking about, losing hope.  And yet, as you dawned on the fourth day, all this group of men that you started out with, you're down to one man, right? Ed:                  At the end of the fourth day, right. Dennis:          How did that happen?   Ed:                  Well, I think it would be fair if I back up just a little bit and say that the night before, when we had the raft, and there were five sailors, two Marines, as it got dark that night, we couldn't go; we couldn't see the Southern Cross, we couldn't see the moon, so along about midnight that night, I know we were just hanging onto the raft, didn't know which way to go, and then we hear voices.                           Now, there's times when I think there's some that heard voices, but we were actually hearing some boys, and we knew it had to be ours, and so we began to respond to them – holler out to them and they to us, and so sometime that night, then, there was a Navy lieutenant and I don't know how many as they came into our group, they kind of came in straggling one at a time, so to speak, and as they came in, I think there were maybe five boys, and Lieutenant McKissock, Charles McKissock from Texas, anyway, he convinced us that he was, likewise, swimming to the Philippines.  He said if we can get close enough then maybe someone will see us.  Then we tried to tell him that we were trying to go there with the raft, and at first he convinced us that the raft would be a deterrent, that it would slow us down, but we said, "Yeah, but we've got a spare tire," as we put it.  We've got spare life jackets on the top.                         And the next thing, maybe, that happened right immediately was that there was a certain Marine that had a pocketful of Irish potatoes that began to take the potatoes out of his pocket and share those with McKissock and the others, and then I don't know what happened after that.  I really don't know what happened before morning.  The only thing that I know is that next morning I'm not with Spooner, not with my buddy, Spooner.  I'm not with the raft; I'm not with the boys that I was with.  I'm with Navy Lieutenant McKissock and one other sailor. And now my life jacket will not hold my head out of the water, and I'm having to constantly swim, trying to keep my head above the water, and sometimes in that fourth day that's one of the times that I wondered if I wasn't gone, there, that fourth day, no doubt it got still.  I'm just exhausted and got still or something or the other and, all of a sudden, something hit me, and I just knew it was a shark.  I fell out of the kapok jacket, fell into the water, and, in desperation, the only hope that I had, I guess, was to get that life jacket back down under me, and I was struggling to get that back down under me, knowing that at any time that a shark is going to attack me.  Bu then, as I finally got back into that life jacket, I'm sitting in it.  Then there was just millions on little fish then, about 8 or 10 inches long, that began to come all around me and kind of nudge against me, and the moment I saw them, I knew that they were my friends.  I knew that if they were there, the sharks weren't around me, and I did try to catch a few with my hands to have one to eat, but I was not successful.  Anyway, that was the closer part of the end of that fourth day before rescue finally came that afternoon. Dennis:          Ed, as I've listened to you take us to one dramatic scene after another, I've stared into your face, and I've watched the emotion come and go, much like the swells in the ocean, and I'm amazed here, 60 years later, you're still very emotionally tethered to the experience that you had there.  You mentioned after you had been rescued that you couldn't talk about it for a long time?  Why was that? Ed:                  I don't know that I can answer why.  I found out that I relived it each time – if I try to get into any detail or anything – I can see it today.  I mean, there is no problem of seeing what all was happening, but I try to think above that and think of the positive rather than to look at it from the standpoint that hope was gone and nothing but despair.  And then to see my buddies go as they were going. But I recall that after I was home two years, Dad's closest friend, which was a friend of the family, and one Sunday afternoon he insisted, I guess, somewhat, he began to question me and, out of respect, I think, for him, as a friend, and I started telling it, and I talked maybe for a couple of hours.  And I know when I got through my dad broke down, and he said, "Well, he's been home for two years now, and this is the first I've really known of really what happened."                         But it was the best cathartic that I could have ever experienced, really, because there it kind of set in motion, not only through the years how I've wanted to give credit to the Lord for His providence and His mercy and grace to me in my life, but I wanted to tell others somewhat of the story.  So for the past several years, I've been in, like, 14 different states now, telling, and just kind of reliving. Dennis:          Well, you're in all 50 states right now.  You're telling a lot of people the story.  Psalm 139, verses 7 through 10, I think, have a special power about them because of the scene that you have set for us here.  "Where can I go from Thy Spirit, or where can I flee from Thy presence?  If I ascend to heaven, Thou art there.  If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, Thou art there.  If I take the wings of the dawn, if I dwell in the remotest part of the sea, even there Thy hand will lead me, and Thy right hand will lay hold of me."                         It goes on to talk about darkness overwhelming me.  The thing that – or the person who leads us in the midst of the darkness, in the midst of our chaos, our challenges, our crisis that we face, He is the King of kings, the Lord of lords, the sovereign ruler of the universe who knows the number of hairs on our head, and He cares about us, and He loves us, and He loved you.  He loved you and brought you through one of the most amazing stories I've ever heard. Bob:                You know, I can't help but reflect again on the book that our friend, Chip Ingram, has written that looks at a number of the Psalms of David and reminds us that God is with us in the midst of any affliction, and the book is called "I Am With You Always."  It's a book that we've got in our FamilyLife Resource Center, and I don't know what kind of affliction our listeners are going through, but that reminder, again, that God is with us, that He is for us, that He has not abandoned us.  There are times in life when we have to be reminded of that, and Chip's book does a great job of doing that.                           Again, it's in our FamilyLife Resource Center along with the book that you've written, Ed, which tells the story of the sinking of the Indianapolis and of your survival – four days in the Pacific.  The book is called "Out of the Depths," and we have both books in our FamilyLife Resource Center.  In fact, this week when our listeners order both books together, we will send at no additional cost the two CDs that have our conversation this week with Ed Harrell and, in fact the CDs have more of the story than we've been able to include on the broadcast because of time constraints.  It's something that the whole family can listen to as you travel this summer, or you can use it for family devotions.                         Go to our website, FamilyLife.com.  When you get to the home page, down at the bottom of the screen there's a button that says "Go."  You click on that button, it will take you right to page where you get more information about the resources we've been talking about.  You can order online, if you'd like.  Again, the website is FamilyLife.com or call 1-800-FLTODAY.  We've got folks who are standing by who can help you with more information about any of these resources, or they can take your order over the phone and get the resources sent to you.  Again, the toll-free number is 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.                           We also want to ask you when you get in touch with us, if you're able to help with a donation this month, you need to know that FamilyLife Today is a listener-supported program, and it's donations to the ministry that keep us on the air in this city and in cities all across the country.  You also need to know that we are committed to the idea that you ought to be giving to your local church as your first priority.  So we hope that if you do get in contact with us to make a donation, you're not, in any way, taking money away from your local church.                         But as you are able to help with the financial support of this ministry in the month of August, we want to send you a thank you gift.  Back, a couple of months ago, we sat down with Shaunti Feldhahn, who is the author of a book called "For Women Only."  We had a great conversation with her about things women need to know about their husbands that many women just aren't aware of.  Shaunti had done research on the subject, and many of you got in touch with us after those interviews and requested the CDs, and we thought during the month of August we would make those CDs available to anyone who wants to make a donation of any amount to the ministry of FamilyLife Today.                          You can donate online at FamilyLife.com or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY to make a donation.  You'll need to request the CDs when you make your donation.  If you're calling, just let our team know that you want the CDs for women, and they'll send those to you.  Or you can request the CDs online.  When you get to the keycode box as you're making your donation, just type in the two letters "CD," and we'll send out the interview to you.  And, again, it's our way of saying thanks for your ongoing support of FamilyLife Today.  We appreciate you standing with us financially.                         Well, tomorrow Ed Harrell is going to be back with us to finish the story.  We're going to hear how you were spotted in the water, and it's a remarkable story of God's amazing providence.  I hope our listeners can be with us for that.                         I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.  On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.                          FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.  ________________________________________________________________ We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.  However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would   you consider donating today to help defray the costs?         Copyright © FamilyLife.  All rights reserved.       www.FamilyLife.com     

Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 1Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 2Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 3Stranded in Shark Infested Waters - Part 4FamilyLife Today® Radio TranscriptReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Out of the Depths Day 4 of 4 Guest:                            Ed Harrell From the Series:         Ducks on the Pond: Rescued at Last________________________________________________________________ Bob:                Sixty years ago this week, Ed Harrell and a number of other sailors were pulled from the Pacific.  They had survived four-and-a-half days afloat after the sinking of the USS Indianapolis.  It's four days that, as you might imagine, Ed Harrell has never been able to forget. Ed:                  I have not had nightmares.  I've had many times that I've awakened and have a vivid scene of the happenings, and yet I think my counteraction to that is "Thank you, Lord, for sparing my life and for bringing me through all of this." Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, August 4th.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll hear how God spared Ed Harrell's life today, and we'll hear a remarkable story about a rescue in the middle of the Pacific.                         And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.  You know, Hollywood has told some tales of castaways left on a desert island, folks surviving in the middle of nowhere, and I've seen some of those movies, and you watch them, and they're interesting.  They have never come close to telling the story that we've heard this week. Dennis:          No, I agree, Bob.  Ed Harrell has been with us all this week and has told a story, a compelling story of how God enabled him to survive an ordeal at sea after being a crew member on the USS Indianapolis, which was sunk on the night of July 30, 1945, by a Japanese submarine, and, Ed, I want to thank you again for your service as a veteran, but also for writing this book and for taking us there and giving us a greater appreciation not just for veterans and what they've done to protect our freedom as Americans but also for taking us there and showing us what tough-minded faith in Almighty God looks like.  Because time and time again you've taken us to vivid scenes where you've been at a fork in the road where you've had to trust God, and you'd been at sea for four days in a life jacket.  You'd only had a few tablespoons of water.  You had some rotten potatoes that had come after you'd prayed for some food; been separated from your buddies, and on the fourth day you are virtually alone. Ed:                  No question.  Even with my buddy at the time and, in fact, there were three of us at the tail end there that fourth day and the one then dropped his head in the water, and he's gone, and then it's just McKissock and myself.  And my mind, by now, is beginning to fail me somewhat in that – McKissock, I know, would say to me, "Hey, Marine, you ever been to the Philippines?"  And, "No, I've never been there."  Well, he had, and he promised to kind of take me under his wing when we got there.                          And yet I knew him.  I knew who he was.  I'd served under him, and he was a peach of a guy, and yet, to me, he was Uncle Edwin, and I called him Uncle Edwin.  I had an uncle two years older than me.  I guess I was thinking of the good times in my mind with someone back home, and yet McKissock was Uncle Edwin to me.                                                And then it was sometime then that afternoon, you know, we had seen the planes, heard them at 30,000 feet, and I say to McKissock, "I hear a plane."  And he said, "I hear one, too," and if you can imagine somewhat that you hear a plane, and you know that it's somewhere coming closer, and yet you don't know which direction it is.  And we began to look all around and, finally, we could detect that it's coming from that direction. Dennis:          Was it coming toward you? Ed:                  It was coming toward us, and it was flying about 8,000 feet and, well, what do you do?  I tell you what you do.  You scream, you splash water, you make all kinds of contortions there in the water, hoping and praying that he can see you.  But here he is flying over us, and had he come any further, he would have gone over us, but when he got, like a quarter of a mile or so out here, flying at 8,000 feet, he headed it straight down toward us as if he knew we were there.  But he didn't know we were there – impossible for him to see us.  If we'd had on deer-hunter orange, and he knew we were there, he could not have seen us.                         In fact, the pilot that later picked us up, he said the possibility of him seeing you would be the equivalent of taking the cross-section of a human hair and looking at the end of that human hair at 20 feet.  He said impossible for him to see us. Dennis:          So why did he go into the dive? Ed:                  Why did he go into the dive – that's the miracle of the angel coming for us, and that is the end of the fourth day.  Well, I've talked to Lieutenant Guinn [ph] at different times, and … Bob:                He was the pilot? Ed:                  He was the pilot, and he was flying out of Pulau, and he was flying a land-based plane, something like a B-20, a twin-engine plane, and as he was flying, he had left out that morning, and he had a problem with his antenna that kind of trails at the back of that aircraft.  And the stabilizer on that antenna had come off, and they had put something on, and he went out and tried it, and it didn't work.  They came back in, and then they put something on, and here they go again.                         So as he is flying over us, and here, as I mentioned, here he's coming just at a point that he could nearly dive right down to us, at that point he had gone back to the bomb bay door, and he'd opened the bomb bay door, and he was reeling in the antenna, and while he had that bomb bay door open, he looks down at a split-second there in the late afternoon of the fourth day, when the sun was setting on us late in the afternoon, and he saw the little mirror, so to speak, of the sun hitting on the oil on our clothing, and when he saw that, he thought it was a submarine down there. So immediately he rushes back to take over the controls, and the boys in the aircraft, they yelled back at him, with all that noise, you know, with the motors still revving up, you know, "What is it?  What is it?"  And he said, "Look down there."  And they looked down, and they could see the oil slick.  Well, my story is this – that we see him coming, and as if God had planned it for us, you know, here, when he gets to about a quarter of a mile from us, he heads down, and he comes down, and he circles us.  And as he circles us, then he tilts his wings a few times, you know, and then he leaves us.  He goes back up, and he circles us again up here. And we wondered, "Well, what in the world is he doing up there?"  Well, he can't land on the water, we knew that, but what he did, he came down, and he saw that there was someone down here.  He goes up, and he breaks radio silence to declare, "ducks on the pond."  He didn't know whether we were Japanese or American boys, but he broke radio silence to declare ducks on the pond.  And then he comes back down, then, and he circles us again.  He tilts his wings a time or two to give us assurance, you know, that we know you're there.  We don't know who you are, but we know you're there. And then he drops a life raft in, and in the meantime, then, he has radioed back into Pulau, and the next pilot, then, gets into a PBY that could land in the water, and Adrian March [ph], then, he's on his way, you know, to come and to pick us up.  And sometime later, then, he arrives, and in the meantime the raft that Guinn had dropped – I know, my friend McKissock, had made his way to the raft.  Then he's leaving it, and I wonder what's wrong.  And I get to the raft then, and it was bottom side up.  I try to get it turned over, managed to get it halfway turned over, but the CO2 on it was torn off, so I couldn't inflate it – no food, no water, no nothing – kind of a torn place in it, so it wouldn't even hold me just to stand on that, so to speak, hole in that pile of rubber. In the meantime, then McKissock had gotten far enough away from me that the PBY landed and had picked him up, and then I wondered, well, will he tell them that there's a Marine out there with him?  Well, he did, but it was a period of time that the plane seemingly – I couldn't see it, but he was running the swells – they were, like, 20-foot swells, and he'd run the swells back and forth trying to make his way over to me, and it took a period of time for him to run those to where he could get across, because if he had turned those props into the water, it would have flipped his plane.  And he pulled a no-no when he landed.  It was against all regulations for him to land his plane in the open sea, and yet he did, because as he landed he said he could see more sharks than he saw boys.  And we were scattered over, like, a 75-mile area, and he took reconnaissance of that and could see that there are boys in life rafts, there are boys on floater nets, and there are stragglers.  Then he actually saw shark attack on several boys, and he was determined that he was going to land, and he cleared it with the rest of the crew.  They all voted somewhat that they could take the punishment, but we've got to land. So they landed then and then finally then they came over me and through out a little life ring and picked me up.  I recall that as they got me out of the water, I blacked out or nearly blacked out.  I had no control over myself, and then they got me aboard the plane, then, and they would take me like a sack of feed and set the guy here, and the next guy just stack him against him, and they kept stacking us in there, and then finally it wouldn't hold anymore, and there were still some boys, stragglers out there, and it was getting dusk dark, and they picked up all that they could, all that they could find, and they actually fashioned them out on the wings, and then finally then sometime later in the night, the seas calmed down after night somewhat, and they shut off the motors, and we sat there and waiting until 12 or 1:00 or so in the morning when the little destroyer, Doyle, came in, and they picked us up. When I got aboard the plane, after a moment to board the plane, then I could look across at a Marine, and I could see that it was a blond-haired guy.  I could see he had the eyeballs that were just big red sores, and I knew it was Spooner, and I saw what he was doing.  He had a can of green beans, and he was feeling down on the deck of the ship, and he finally found a stud bolt or something down there, and he took that can of green beans, and he kept hacking away until he knocked a hole in the can of green beans and then he was turning that juice up and drinking it.  I recall saying to him, "Hey, Marine, how about some of your bean juice?" Well, you'd have to know Spooner, but he kind of told me where I could go, and … Dennis:          This is the guy that you saved his life by grabbing him by the life jackets on day 2, right? Ed:                  Yes.  Then I said to him, "Spooner, you don't know who this is.  This is Harrell."  Well, I didn't have to say any more.  He just kind of fell across the plane there toward me and kind of spilled some of his bean juice as he shared that with me.                         I was transferred, then, aboard the Doyle, and sometime that night, 1:00 or so that night. Dennis:          Ed, when he lunged across the floor of that plane to give you the bean juice, was that kind of an emotional – I can't even imagine.  I mean, he's alive, you're alive, it's what you'd said two days earlier.  You said, "You and I are going to get out of here." Ed:                  It was emotional for me as much as, I'm sure, for him – just to see that he made it, you know, because I didn't know anytime that fourth day – I knew not where Spooner might be.  And then to be able to see him there and see that he was alive, and I recognized him as soon as I looked across the plane and saw those eyes, I knew it was Spooner. Bob:                When you first heard that plane, when it started to dive and was tilting its wings at you, you thought, "We're going to be rescued?" Ed:                  Yes. Bob:                I would think you'd just weep. Ed:                  Well, you know, there's times when you weep, and there's times when you weep for joy.  I look back on this, and when I look at the – well, the first day that I had every assurance that somehow, some way, the Lord is going to see me through.  I felt that from the very moment that I went into the water.  And then the second day, when He provided the water for me … Bob:                … the rain shower … Ed:                  … you know, you have to just say "Thank you, Lord, I know that you are speaking to my heart and that somehow, some way, you're going to see me through."  And then on the third day, then, when the little raft came into the group, and you know that your life jacket no longer is holding your head out of the water, and now you have a spare life jacket that He provided for you, and you have to thank Him again.  And then sometime, then, the third afternoon, likewise, when you're starving still for water and for some food, and then for Him to provide half-rotten potatoes, you know, I have to thank, you know, He's still with me. And as I look back on that, you know, I think of the water of life.  You know, if you drink of this water, you're going to thirst again.  If you drink of that salt water, you're not going to make it at all.  But if you drink of the water that I give you, you'll never thirst again.  And then the bread of life, the potatoes that I had – and then when I get to the last day, the plane that came in, well, you know, it's like the Lord says, "Let not your hearts be troubled.  If you believe in God believe also in Me.  In My Father's house are many dwelling places.  I go to prepare a place for you, and since I go to prepare a place for you, I'm going to come again, and I'll receive you unto myself that where I am there you may be also."                         And so here He's coming, for me, at that time, He came for me in the person of Lieutenant Guinn as he came.  So I look back on the whole experience, and I think I have to say that it's a wonderful experience to have lived through, and I just praise and thank the Lord all the time for His mercy and and for His grace – unworthy as I am and yet He saw fit to spare my life through this ordeal. Bob:                You know, you mentioned that it was two years before you shared anything with your father.  We got a letter – you may remember this, Dennis, from a woman whose husband had passed on, and she said it wasn't until the last years of his life, some – almost 50 years after the battle had occurred – that she knew he'd been on Iwo Jima.  They'd gone their whole married life; she had never known that he was in that battle until near the end of his life.                         And I thought to myself as I read that, it was another way that he was protecting and defending by not sharing his story, and yet she wrote, and she said, "Knowing that sure explained some of the nights when he would wake up in terror."  Have you had that experience?  Have you had the nightmares and the terror of remembering some of that? Ed:                  I have not had nightmares.  I have had, many times that I've awakened and have a vivid scene of the happenings, and yet I think my counteraction to that is that "Thank you, Lord, for sparing my life and for bringing me through all of this," and I think maybe – I like to look at it, say that the Lord reminds me even today of those incidents.  And as He reminds me of those, then they help to strengthen my faith and my resolve to live a life for him today. Dennis:          You mentioned that pilot ended up finding 56 survivors on that fourth day.   Ed:                  Right. Dennis:          In total, there were 317 survivors.  How did the rest of them all get picked up? Ed:                  Well, as soon as they picked us up and found out that it was the Indianapolis, then all word went out.  They broke radio silence everywhere, and any ship within a couple of hundred miles or so; that is, a destroyer or something that could move fast, they came to the scene.  And when the USS Doyle, the ship that picked me up, when it got closer and closer, what did he do, Commander Claytor, he turned on his powerful spotlights up on the under part of the clouds, and you can imagine what that did to that whole area.  It was just like a mushroom with lights underneath the clouds.  And for the boys that were out there, they knew that rescue was there, and that gave them the hope that they needed.  And some of those had to go through another night.  It would be dangerous, you know, as dark as it was, to try to take some kind of a craft out there and maneuver around without hitting someone.  But that gave them hope through the night until the next morning.                         Now, I was picked up aboard the Doyle off the PBY.  I know, as they took me aboard, there was a couple of sailors that there's no qualms about them getting dirty or anything, and, of course, we were grease monkeys, really, with all that oil and all on us.  And I recall that they took my arms and put them around their neck, and they drug my feet, and they took me down below deck, and then they began to – they stripped off my clothing, and then they began to take something like a diesel fuel or kerosene, and they began to wash that oil off of me.  And then they had to be so careful with all of the saltwater ulcers that I had, and then they put me in – a Marine being put in Navy skivvies.  So they put their Navy underwear on me, and then … Bob:                You were okay with that, at that point? Ed:                  I was okay.  In fact, may I just say that I met the guy, after 57 years, I met the guy aboard the Doyle that actually cleaned me up, and he took me, then, to his bunk and gave me his bed, and then the corpsmen then came, and they had a cup of sugared water, warm sugared water, and they gave me a couple of tablespoons full or so of warm sugared water to kind of rehydrate me, I guess. Bob:                Did it taste pretty good? Ed:                  It tasted wonderful, it tasted wonderful. Bob:                Sixty years after this happened, how many of the survivors are still alive? Ed:                  A week or so ago, I got a report.  I think there was 97 of us still alive. Bob:                Spooner? Ed:                  Spooner's gone.  There's five of we Marines.  Nine of we marines survived out of – there were 39 of us aboard, and nine of us survived, and of the nine there are five of us still living today. Bob:                How about McKissock? Ed:                  No, McKissock's gone.  And, by the way, McKissock was not a believer at the time, and McKissock told me later, he said, "Harrell, I went home, and I got to look at all that the Lord had brought me through there," and he said, "I was a churchgoer.  I went to church all the time, but I was really not a believer."  And he said, "Finally, I just had to get down on my knees and thank the Lord and tell Him that I trusted Him as my Savior because I know that He had a purpose for my life."  And he became a real Christian friend of mine as long as he lived.  He passed away four years ago, maybe. Dennis:          Well, Ed, wow.  I'm exhausted from treading water here with you.  But I have to say, what a great story.  What a great story of faith and redemption, God's providential care, and how you have faithfully given Him the credit and the honor for doing that.  I'm grateful for your book and just pray that God will give you many great years of health and many more great-grandchildren, and I appreciate you being with us here on FamilyLife Today. Ed:                  Thank you so much, my delight, my pleasure to be with you. Bob:                And, you know, if any of our listeners this week have missed portions of this story, we've got our interview with Ed available on CD.  In fact, it's on two CDs, and we've been able to include on the CDs material that we weren't able to fit on the radio because of time constraints.                           We also have the book that you've written, Ed, which is called "Out of the Depths."  It tells the story of the sinking of the Indianapolis and of your rescue along with the rescue of the other sailors and Marines who were in the water 60 years ago this week.  Go to our website at FamilyLife.com if you're interested in getting a copy of Ed's book or the CDs of our discussion.                          At the bottom of your screen when you're on our website, FamilyLife.com, you'll see a little button that says "Go."  Click on that button, and it will take you to a page where there is more information on Ed's book, on other resources that we're recommending this week.  You can order online at FamilyLife.com, if you'd like, or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY and someone on our team can answer any questions you might have about these resources, or you can order over the phone as well.                         1-800-FLTODAY is the number.  The website, again, is FamilyLife.com, and let me encourage you, especially if you weren't able to hear the complete story, to contact us and get a copy of the book and the CDs as well.                         And then let me also ask you consider this month making a donation to FamilyLife Today.  We're a listener-supported program.  Your donations are what keep us on the air.  We are asking folks if, during the month of August, you could make a donation to help with our financial needs.  We'd like to send you a thank you gift.  A few months ago we had Shaunti Feldhahn in our studios, and we visited with her on a book that she's written called "For Women Only."  It's based on research that she has done with more than 1,000 men all across the country asking them about what they need most from their wives.                         This month we're going to make those available to you as a thank you gift when you make a donation of any amount to FamilyLife Today.  You can donate online at FamilyLife.com or you can call 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY to make your donation.  When you do, be sure to request the CDs for women, or if you're online, when the keycode box comes up, type in the two letters "CD," and we'll know that you'd like to have the Shaunti Feldhahn CDs sent to you.  And let me say thanks in advance for your support of this ministry.  It is much needed, and it is appreciated.                         Well, tomorrow we're going to talk about some very profound theological ideas that even a three-year-old can begin to catch onto.  We'll explain what we mean tomorrow.  I hope you can be back with us for that.                         I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.  On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll see you tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.                          FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.  ________________________________________________________________ We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.  However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would   you consider donating today to help defray the costs?         Copyright © FamilyLife.  All rights reserved.       www.FamilyLife.com                             

I Survived My Suicide - Part 1I Survived My Suicide - Part 2I Survived My Suicide - Part 3FamilyLife Today® Radio TranscriptReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Life in Spite of MeDay 1 of 3 Guest:                           Kristen Jane Anderson From the Series:         On the Edge of Hopelessness________________________________________________________________­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­Bob:  Kristen Jane Anderson was 17 years old and was ready for life…to be over.  When she heard a ‘Freight Train' approaching at the park where she was sitting; she decided to lay her body across the tracks. Kristen:  When the train stopped I wasn't sure if I was alive or dead.  I remember just opening my eyes and unclenching my fists and starting to look around because I didn't know what to think.  I didn't know what it was like to die!  Obviously I just had no idea what to think.   When I was looking around, I looked behind me; to my right…and I saw my legs about 10 feet behind me on my right.    Bob:  This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, September 8th.  Our host is the President of FamilyLife and I am Bob Lepine.   Kristen Jane Anderson joins with us today to share a remarkable story of survival and of faith. And welcome to FamilyLife Today!  Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. We are going to hear a remarkable story today.  A story of where there is hope!   Actually to start things off, I want to read a Bible verse.  This is one of my favorite Bible verses. Dennis:  I would feel better if you had a real Bible opened; I mean, instead of reading it off your iPhone. Bob:  I love carrying this around. Dennis:  You do!  You really do!  You get a grin on your face when you scroll down to the passage Bob: It is a little awkward when I am up front in my church reading from my iphone, but it is…. Dennis:  You do it there too?  Bob:  Yeah!  This is the way I read my Bible now.  And I love it!   Dennis:  Okay!  Bob:  1 Peter 2:9 says, “You are a chosen race a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His own possession …. ‘(And this is the part that I love)' …….that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.” I think the story we are going to hear about this week is one of those out of darkness into marvelous light stories. Dennis:  I think you are right, Bob, and I think that our listeners; regardless if they are dealing with something troubling or challenging in their lives right now or rather if things are going well, they need to hear this story.  It is the story of a young lady who joins us on FamilyLife Today, Kristen Jane Anderson, joins us today on FamilyLife Today.  Kristen, welcome to the broadcast! Kristen:  Thank you for having me on. Dennis:  Kristen is a graduate of Moody, almost; right?   Kristen:  Right!  Dennis:  Almost a graduate of Moody Bible Institute!  She is a popular speaker to college students and women's events all around the country.  She has been featured on Oprah, which we had some fun talking about before we came on the air here. Bob:  She was comparing you and Oprah …wasn't she? Dennis:  She was!  She was! She was…. And you actually asked her, “which was a bigger treat, to be on our broadcast …… or her (Oprah) TV program? Bob:  And let's move on shall we? Dennis:  She has written a book called, Life In Spite of Me.  I am just going to cut right to the chase here.   Kristen, I am going to ask you to take us to January 2.  You were in a park and it was dark and it was icy cold there and it was the most dramatic day of your life. Kristen:  Yes!  I was at the park and I was there because I didn't feel like I could go home.  I didn't want to go home.  I didn't want to get in trouble and I thought I was going to disappoint my parents again.  I was at the park just kind of trying to waste time and to figure out what I was going to do next and I was swinging on the swings and as I was there I started to think about why I was there.   Why did I feel like I couldn't go home?  Why did I feel the way that I did inside?  I was struggling and then I remembered that in the park that I was in that you were supposed to be out of the park after the sun goes down.  I knew that the police come and patrol the park and if you're in the park after dark they make you leave.   The reason I was there is that I didn't want to go home, so I looked around to see where else I could go and I saw that there had been a set of train cars parked on the edge of the park.  I knew that they had been there for about 3 weeks.  I walked over to the train cars and I sat on one of them.  Then I started to think about a thought process that I had had about 3 months beforehand.  It was after one of my friends had taken his life.  He had taken his life by hanging himself in the cemetery. Dennis:  You were 17 years of age? Kristen:  Right!  I had no idea how to handle it and I didn't understand it.  I remember thinking, “I don't know how he could ever do that.  How could he ever take his life?”  And then I thought, “I don't know how he could do it the way that he did it, especially that way.”   But then my thought process changed and I started to think, “Well if I was ever going to do it, how would I do it?”  I went through a lot of different things in my mind that I had heard about in school or on TV; different ways people try to end their lives and none of them seemed like they would work or be good enough, until I heard the train go by my parent's house.   I heard the whistle blow and I felt the house just kind of shake.  I could feel the power of the train and I thought, “That is one way that I would never live through it.”  It just kind of snapped in my mind and I never thought about it again until sitting on the train that day.  And that is when I started to consider suicide, by train, as the answer to my pain. Dennis:   So, at that point what did you do?   I mean, how long did you have in advance warning that the train was coming? Kristen:  Oh!  I saw it coming; I probably had a minute before it got to me.  I didn't know how long it would be before the next train came and it was freezing out and I knew I couldn't stay outside much longer.  So, right before it got to me, I made the impulsive decision to lay down on the tracks.  It wasn't something I had decided before it started coming.  I made the decision right before it got to me to lay down on the tracks.  I got off the train that I was on.  I walked down the rocks that those tracks were on.  I walked up the tracks that the other train was on.   And I laid down right before the train …got to me. Dennis:  How did you lay across the track?  Kristen:  I lay between the tracks.  My head and my body were between the tracks and my legs were hanging over.  I closed my eyes.  I clenched my fists and I turned my head in the opposite direction that the train was coming.  I just tried to push down all the fear and the shame and I just laid there.  I mean, it was only a fraction of a second … before it ran over me.   Bob:  So, you could see it coming and you just laid down on the tracks with it coming? Kristen:  Yes.  Dennis:  So, I have got the picture in my mind at this point… Here is a 17 year old girl who is hopeless.  Who has really lost hope about her life and you are going to end it in, as you said, an impulsive decision; to lie down on the tracks in front of a train.  Was the ground shaking as it …?   Kristen:  Yes!  I felt the ground shaking.  I felt the tracks shaking.  I felt the wind of the train and I heard it roaring over me.  I felt it begin to suck me upward almost into itself which is really what should have happened, because 33 Freight Train cars went over me at 55 MPH.  So, I should have been sucked up into the train and basically torn to pieces.   I guess that's what happens normally when a train is going that fast with the way that I was positioned.  I felt my body begin to rise upward and I then I felt it begin to be pushed down into the ground; like there was this tremendous weight or force or wind beginning to push me down. Dennis:  You know…I have 4 daughters…., I know that as a teenager, young ladies can; as Bob said earlier, can believe those voices.  And that there is really a battle going on for the souls and for the lives of young people today.  I have never, ever talked ….to a young lady, however, who… acted on those and obviously, today is alive ….to be able to tell the story of what took place.   There is more to this story that we want to share, but I want to take our listeners back to the home you grew up in.  Just talk about the spiritual condition of that home, what you learned about God, what you believed about God, and your relationship with your parents.   Bob:  Yes!  How you got to where you got.  I mean, was there any spiritual background in your home growing up? Kristen:  Yes!  I grew up going to church.  I remember going to youth group and things like that, but I didn't know the difference that God can make in my life.  When things started to go wrong I had lost about 3 friends and my grandmother within a year ½ of time.  I lost one friend in a motorcycle accident.  I lost one in a car accident.  I lost one to suicide and I lost my grandma just because of her age.  Also, in that period of time I was being stalked by 2 young men and I was raped by another.   Bob:  Oh man!  Kristen:  So, I had no idea how to handle that.  I had a really hard time believing it.  I kind of tried to forget about most of it, I just didn't know how to handle any of it and I felt like everyone else was handling everything fine.  My family, my friends, they just all seemed fine.  I remember asking my mom one time, “How do you do it?”  I remember her telling me, “You just do it;” because I didn't know how to handle it.   Dennis:  There was also something occurring in your family that you have not mentioned here that was adding to your despair; and that was what your dad was going through.   I mean from the time you were a little girl, your daddy was under a dark cloud of depression.  Can you comment on that? Kristen:  I was in about 5th grade when I found out that my dad was diagnosed with depression.  He was grateful when he found out because he knew something was wrong with him.  He was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism and depression, but I did not know what that meant.  I remember thinking, “Well you are not sad all the time, why are you depressed?”  I remember thinking, “Even being sad a little bit, why he would be sad, because he had us – we had our family.”   But I didn't understand the struggle that he was in.  I remember in high school I would come home and he would be sleeping; I remember that he just wasn't there for me.  I knew that he loved me and that he was present, but I didn't have much of a relationship with him.  I had a very close relationship with my mom, though.   Dennis:  And you know I am listening, Kristen, to the emotions that are coming back that are a decade old.  This was a traumatic time in your life and having to deal with trying to sort through… suicides, deaths, rape, and even your father's inability to connect with you. Bob:  Did your family know about the rape? Kristen:  No! They didn't!   I didn't tell anyone. Bob:  So, you are processing a lot of this just locked down inside yourself? Kristen:  Right!  That is one of the things my mom mostly talks about; she wishes she would have known.  They were trying to get me help.  They knew something was wrong, but they didn't really know what had happened or what was bothering me so much.  They asked me, but I wanted to be tough; I didn't want to have problems, so I didn't talk about my problems.  I tried to be the person that helped everybody else ….and I kept all my problems to myself. Dennis:  You were how old at the time? Kristen:  I was 16!  It was the summer of my 16th birthday.    Dennis:  And your response to that; I am sure you have found out now after sharing your story on college campuses,  is not out of the ordinary.  There is a lot of this occurring, and there is a lot of secrets being kept in the closet. Kristen:   Yes!  There are!  Dennis:   Because of shame and fear and what might happen. Kristen:  Right!  Bob:  But to stuff all of that inside a 16 year old soul and with all that you were going through, it is no surprise that it erupted.  I mean, looking back on it now, and I mention the demonic influence and we can't discount that, but the life's circumstances and again, it all getting kind of compressed and pushed down.  You can see where somebody gets to a point where they go, “why stay?' Kristen:  Yes!  It just ate away at me.  I had held on to hope, but it was getting less and less and less.   And, that one moment was the moment that I had lost hope. Dennis:   You didn't have a faith in Christ at that point to process all the evil that was occurring to you and around you and to your friends.  So, there was no ability to interpret and to make sense and to have understanding at that point.   Kristen:  Right!  I wasn't even trying to do it myself because I couldn't make any sense of it.  If I would have had a relationship with God, I know that I would have went to Him for understanding.  I didn't even know that He offered understanding or comfort or wisdom or strength in difficult times.  So, I just tried to stuff it down and to handle it all myself. Dennis:  And to the parent, right now, who is listening and they are saying, “Man, I wonder if this is taking place in my daughter or possibly my son?”  What would you say to a mom, a dad; who has maybe sensing something is up, something has happened, but can't break through. Kristen:  I would tell them to talk to their son and daughter and actually specifically if they have had suicidal thoughts.  Ask them on a scale of 1 – 10, how much hope they have.  Ask very specific questions because when you ask kids how they are doing, they are usually going to tell you they are fine.  Or they are going to tell you on a surface level, but if you ask the tough questions they will tell you how they are really doing.   I think that it is really important that parents listen and they don't judge them and they don't react in an extreme way.  They need to be very, very understanding.  I know that most of the adults and youths that talk to me; talk to me because they know that I understand.  I think kids need their parents to understand, they need their grace and they need them to pray with them and model a relationship with Christ for them.  Help them know how they can go to God for strength and for comfort and for understanding in difficult times.   Bob:  Kristen, as you were laid out across those railroad tracks, your legs dangling out off the tracks, train is coming; did you remain conscious through the entire point of impact?  You said it was 33 cars at 55 mile per hour; there must have been a couple of minutes that the train ….. Kristen:  Yes!  I was conscious the whole time.  I remember it all completely!   Bob:   Were you thinking, “Well, I must be about to die soon?” Kristen:  Yes!   I was waiting to die.  I thought it – “Any minute now…”  Actually when the train stopped I wasn't sure if I were alive or dead.   I remember just opening my eyes and unclenching my fists and starting to look around because I didn't know what to think.  I didn't know what it was like to die!   Obviously I just had no idea what to think.   When I was looking around, I looked behind me; to my right and I saw my legs about 10 feet behind me on my right.   I knew they were my legs because they have these brand new bright white tennis shoes on them that I had just gotten for Christmas.  But, it just seemed like it wasn't real, this couldn't be happening, this had to be a horrible nightmare – and this couldn't be happening.   I kind of tried to gather myself and I crawled out from underneath the train.   I looked down at my legs to see if they were actually gone.   In that moment this tremendous peace just came over me and I started hearing this song, “Amazing Grace,” playing over and over in my head and I just thought, “I must be dying!  I must be going to heaven!  That could only be music from heaven!”   What I feel like God was doing is just meeting me in that moment and showing me, “Kristen, you don't need your mom, you just need Me!  You don't need your mom, you just need ME!  I am the only ONE who can help you in this circumstance!”   So, I remember just resting in that peace though.  I think I might have started to lose consciousness because the next thing I remember is feeling a Firefighter take my hair off of my face and pull it behind my ear.  I had not heard him come up to me, but when he did that I opened my eyes and looked  up at him and he kind of stumbled back because he…. wasn't expecting me to be alive.   I remember just feeling anger and fear rise up in me because I didn't want anyone to see me like this.  I didn't want anyone to help me or save me.  I was embarrassed too!  I just didn't know what to think or feel or do, but he radioed to all the other medical personnel of my location, my status, and they tried to call …Flight-For-Life.   But they couldn't bring in Flight-For-Life… because the weather was too bad, so they did something that they had never done since; that wasn't protocol that they had never done before.  They blocked all of the intersections and roads from where I was to the closest hospital that could take me.  That was normally a 45 minute drive, but the police report says they got me there in 8 minutes.   Dennis:  “Hmmmm” Kristen:  So, I think, I can only attribute that kind of speed to God!  I definitely see Him in those details!   When I got to the hospital, the doctors and nurses were kind of in shock because I had lost 8 pints of blood; and scientifically you are supposed to die after you lose 5.  Not only was I alive, I was talking.  I knew my mom and dad's phone number and my sister's phone number; things like that and they were writing them down so they could tell them what had happened to me.   I remember looking up to the man in the white coat next to me who I assumed to be the doctor and asking him if he thought I would l live.  I remember him telling me, “he didn't know.”  He says that he said that because he knew that I needed to fight… I could die… but that to live I needed to fight …because I shouldn't have been alive and …..Nobody knew how much time I had left. Bob:  Were you still thinking at that time, “Well, I guess I will die soon?” Kristen:  I was hoping that I would die in surgery.  Or something like that. Dennis:  I am listening to your story here and I am seeing you smile; I am also seeing you cry.  And it is because in the midst of this trauma you found …the God of the universe and you found… redemption and you found that personal relationship with Christ and instead of hearing a song about, “Amazing Grace,” you now sing it!  Kristen:  Exactly!  Dennis:  Yeah!  And you have found the ONE who did bring hope!  We want to share more of that story later with our listeners.  I am just wondering, Bob, if there is a person now, who doesn't know Christ and where they are.  I would just encourage them to give us a call and let us put some literature in your hands so that you can come into a personal relationship with Christ.  There just may be somebody listening right now who may be on the precipice of what you were doing and I don't want them to have to go through the trauma that you went through to find Christ. Bob:  The reality is that there are circumstances that come in life that lead us to despair.  I think Dennis, about the book of “Psalms” and the times that David the psalmist found himself in those moments where he cried out with the kind of desperate anguish that you described, Kristen.  The kind of hopelessness that he felt and that you felt.  And yet, the message of the gospel is a message of hope in the midst of despair; that the circumstances of this life are not the defining reality that shapes our existence.  I just want to encourage listeners if you are at a point of hopelessness and despair and you don't have settled in your own heart the reality that there is God who loves you, who is in control of life, and who knows what He is doing; and who walks with you through the valley and brings you out on the other side.   If you don't know that God; if you don't have a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ, I want to encourage you to call us at 1800-FLTODAY and ask for a copy of the book, Pursuing God.   It is a book that we will send you, at no cost and that will introduce you to what it means to have a vital relationship with Jesus Christ.  Again, call 1-800-FLTODAY and ask for a copy of the book, Pursuing God, and we will send it to you at no cost and we pray that God will use this book to bring hope and help in the midst of whatever circumstances you find yourself in.   And then let me encourage you to go online at FamilyLifeToday.com; to find out more about Kristen's book, Life in Spite of Me.  It is her story and it is an extraordinary story of hope after of what she intended as a fatal choice!   Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com; for more information about Kristen's book.  There is also information about other resources that we have on depression and on suicide.  You will find it on FamilyLifeToday.com; or if it is easier to call us toll-free, 1-800-FLTODAY.  Do that, call 1800-358-6329.  That's 1-800 F as in “family” L as in “life” and then the word TODAY.  And we can make arrangements to have the resources you need sent to you. Now, let me just mention to you that we have heard from many of our listeners  over the last week who have gotten in touch with us to get more information about our  Valentine's week Love Like You Mean It  cruise that we are going to be taking February 14-18, 2011.  Dennis and Barbara, Crawford and Karen Loritts are going to be on the cruise with us; along with Kirk Cameron and Shaunti Feldhahn, Big Daddy Weave, Selah, Point of Grace.  It is going to be a great week-long cruise for couples.    Last week and again this week we have been letting FamilyLife Today listeners  know that you can sign up for the cruise ; and we have got a limited  number of cabins still available, but you can sign up basically for half-price.  It is Buy-One-Get-One free.  Your stateroom is half-price when you sign up this week.   If you want to take advantage of this special offer for FamilyLife Today listeners, when you sign up you have to type, my name, “BOB”…in the promo-code box on the online registration form.  Get more information when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link to the Love Like You Mean It cruise and then  make plans to join us Valentine's week, February 14-18, 2011 for the FamilyLife – Love Like You Mean It cruise; again more information online at FamilyLifeToday.com. And, be sure to join us back tomorrow.  Kristen Anderson is going to be here again, and we are going to hear about the hope that followed the despair in her life.  I hope you can be here with us for that! I want to thank our engineer today Keith Lynch and our entire broadcast production team.  On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.  We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today.  Hope for tomorrow. ©Copyright 2010 __________________________________________________________________We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.  However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would   you consider donating today to help defray the costs?  Copyright © FamilyLife.  All rights reserved.www.FamilyLife.com     

I Survived My Suicide - Part 1I Survived My Suicide - Part 2I Survived My Suicide - Part 3FamilyLife Today® Radio TranscriptReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Life in Spite of MeDay 2 of 3 Guest:                             Kristen Jane Anderson From the Series:         A Flicker of Hope________________________________________________________________­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­Bob:   When she was 17 years old, Kristen Jane Anderson sought to end her life by lying across a railroad track as the train was approaching.  Miraculously, she survived; although her legs were severed.  She was soon to realize that God had a purpose for her life.   Kristen:  Three months after I lost my legs, I was out of the hospital.  We went back to church that Sunday.  A woman came up to me who had heard about what happened to me.  She told me that I would have gone to hell if I died.  It was very difficult at the time, but I am very grateful that she was that bold at the time because it helped me see my need for Him.  It helped me think about where I would have gone eternally.  “If I had died, where would I go?”  I had never thought about it more than at that time in my life. Bob:  This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, September 9th.  Our host is the President of FamilyLife Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  Kristen Jane Anderson joins us today to share a story of beauty from ashes and redemption from tragedy.   Welcome to FamilyLife Today; thanks for joining us.  I have read the statistics about teenage suicide, about teens who overdose on a handful of pills from the medicine cabinet or who do violence to themselves in some way to take their own lives. Dennis:  Right. Bob:  I don't know that I have ever heard a story like the one we are hearing this week. Dennis:  Yes.  We have a guest with us this week who is willing to tell a profound story, quite a drama.  Kristen Jane Anderson joins us on FamilyLife Today.  Welcome back. Kristen:  Thank you. Dennis:  Kristen, you have written a book called Life, In Spite of Me.  As our listeners heard earlier, that really is an understatement.  A lot of things had taken place in your life that had left you hopeless, right? Kristen:  Yes.  A lot of things happened.   Dennis:  Yes.  Your father was struggling from depression as you grew up as a little girl and as a teenager.  You had three friends, as a teenager, who lost their lives—one to suicide.  You had a couple of guys stalking you—one who raped you.  You were hopeless and no one knew it.   Kristen:  No.  My family especially knew something was wrong with me because it wasn't in my character to not come home when I was supposed to.  I had started drinking and smoking and things like that.  That wasn't anything I had done before.  I also stopped playing soccer.  That was something that I loved to do, and so they knew something was wrong with me.  They just didn't know how much was wrong inside and how I was feeling. Bob:  You say they knew something was wrong.  If you were to look back and say, “There had been something going back in my heart and soul for a month...three months...six months.”  What? Kristen:  I think that it was a lot going on that whole period of time, but I think the last six months before my attempt were the worst.  I think I just kind of died inside.  I didn't care about my life or anything anymore.  I drove around hoping somebody would hit me.  I wanted my life to end.  I didn't want to take it, though.   People would ask me how I was doing.  I would say, “I'm here.'  Kind of like, “Isn't that good enough?”  I had just a much more negative and a little bit of a bitter attitude.  That wasn't my normal demeanor, but at the same time I still had a smile on my face.  So people really were confused. Bob:  Here it is the second day of the New Millennium, January 2, 2000.  It is a cold day.  You left the house, sitting in a park, just thinking about life.  The impulse—really—it was an impulse hits you.  Dennis:  Yes.  I want to make a comment about that because I have read this before that a number of suicides that occur among young people are done, not in a sense of really thinking it through, but just deciding at the spur of the moment. Kristen:  Right.  For me, it was.  I could never have made that as a rational decision.  If I was going to do it, it would have had to be impulsive.  I think that most people would think that way.  I think most kids, especially.  They know that suicide is wrong.  They can never rationalize it enough to think it is okay or it is right. Bob:  You didn't think about writing a note saying, “It's all over.”  You didn't have time. Kristen:  No.  I didn't have time and I wasn't worried about other people.  I was in a very selfish place. Bob:  So you went and laid across the railroad tracks with a train coming.  Did the conductor see you dive across the tracks? Kristen:  Yes.  The police report says that the conductor said to the engineer, “Did you see that yellow flash?”  The engineer said to the conductor, “Yes. I think we just hit someone.”  The yellow flash that they saw was this yellow jacket that I had on—my winter coat. Dennis:  It was a new coat that you had just gotten for Christmas was it, or was that the jeans you had gotten? Kristen:  Right.  The coat was new; the shoes were new.  All of it was new actually.   Bob:  So you dove across the tracks.  The conductor, the engineer said, “I think we just hit somebody.”  They put on the brakes, brought the train to a stop? Kristen:  Yes.  Then they called 911. Bob:  And came back finding you lying on the tracks, legs severed—one below the knee and the other... Kristen:  They didn't come to find me, but the paramedics found me. Bob:  Okay.   Kristen:  Yes, but with my legs severed.   Bob:  You have already shared with us this week that you were in record-time taken to the nearest hospital in your area—wheeled into surgery. Dennis:  Still wanting to die. Kristen:  Yes. Bob:  And still thinking that was probably where you were headed.  What is the next thing that you remember?   Kristen:  The next thing I remember was waking up in Intensive Care.  I was in surgery all night long.  The next thing I remember was waking up—opening my eyes, trying to figure out where I was.  I saw my mother, my dad, my brother, my sister, and my brother-in-law all in the room, their arms crossed and their faces looking down at the floor.  I couldn't understand where I was or why everyone looked so unhappy.   Then my mom ran to the side of my bed.  She said, “Honey, we are so glad you are okay.”  I remembered what had happened the night before.  I said, “Mom, they cut my clothes and they cut my coat.”  She said, “Oh, honey.  It's okay.  We are just glad you are here.  We can get you new ones.  Don't worry about that.”  She couldn't believe that I said that. I also wasn't thinking about the fact that I had lost my legs.  In that moment I hadn't really understood the reality of it yet.   Dennis:  Were you angry at that point that you were alive? Kristen:  It was interesting because at this point everyone was so happy to see me, and they were so happy I was alive.  I had mixed emotions.  I was beginning to be a little bit grateful that I lived, but I was still hoping that I would maybe slip away.   Bob:  Even in that moment, your desire to die—the thing that had propelled you onto the tracks—the thing that was still with you when the paramedics found you—now you are recovered; your family is there.  They are saying, “We are just so glad you are here;” and you are still thinking, “I just want to go.  I just want to be done with this.” Kristen:  One of the things they have told me since then is that they were worried.  If I didn't want to live my life with my legs, how was I going to want to live my life without my legs?  That is kind of the place I was in.  I didn't want to live my life with all my other problems and now I didn't have my legs!  How was I going to do that?  I didn't think I could do that. Bob:  So the despair that had kind of come upon you impulsively was now gripping you in terms of just wanting it all to be over and life to end.  There was still no sense of any kind of hope for the future for you. Kristen:  It was small.  It was very small.  I didn't know what the future held, and because I was on a lot of medication—my emotions were very numb, which was good and bad at the time.  It caused me not to think a lot—not to feel a lot; but I had hope, more than anything, in people.   My hope was because people told me, “There is a reason you are here.  God kept you here for a reason.  There is something you are supposed to do here.”  That was really encouraging to me.  I didn't know why He kept me here or what I was supposed to do here; but I kind of held on to that because I realized that because of how much blood I lost and because of how many cars had run over me as fast as they did—all the scientific details—I knew I should have died; but I was alive.  That did speak some volume to me about God and His faithfulness and His goodness and His love for me.  I had a small hope that was growing.  Dennis:  There is one more emotion that you undoubtedly had to experience because you mentioned earlier that what kind of propelled you onto the tracks was you were really thinking about yourself.  You didn't write a letter to your family members say, “Goodbye.”   Kristen:  No.  I thought about them on the tracks.  I thought, “They will get over me,” or things like that.  I was worried how they would feel, but I was more consumed with my own pain.   Dennis:  When you finally kind of came to, and the drugs began to wear off, undoubtedly you began to experience some shame.   Kristen:  Yes. Dennis:  And some embarrassment at what you tried to accomplish but didn't.  I mean, you were alive!   Kristen:  Right.Dennis:  And even though God was at work in your soul, how did you handle that? Kristen:  It was a really hard for thing for me.  I actually didn't remember laying on the tracks for a long time.  People told me that the police report said it was an attempted suicide and everyone assumed it was, but I didn't remember doing it.  I had a really hard time accepting that for a long time, but I began having flashbacks.   Eventually I had a full flashback where I remembered laying on the tracks.  That was devastating for me because I did not want to believe that I would do something like that; but it brought me closer to God because I started crying out for Him.   I knew—I just felt so broken—I was so full of shame—I was so embarrassed.  I was so overwhelmed, but I had started to work through some of the stuff that had happened before my attempted suicide in counseling so now I started to work through my actual attempted suicide. Bob:  You said that you grew up in a home that was a church-going home and that you had been in church but you had not really heard about a personal relationship with Christ.  In these times of despair and dealing with the circumstances you lived with, what were the influences that were drawing you in the direction of God? Kristen:  Three months after I lost my legs, I was out of the hospital on a weekend visit before my next surgery.  We went back to church that Sunday.  A woman came up to me, who I didn't know, who had heard what had happened to me; and she told me I would have gone to hell if I had died.  I had never thought about that before. Dennis:  Wait.  Wait a second.  You are talking about somebody at church came up to you and said you would go to hell? Kristen:  Right. Dennis:  How did that hit you? Kristen:  It was very hard for me because I had never thought about whether or not I would have gone to hell if I had died.  I thought about it a little bit, but not really, because everyone around me told me, “Kristen, you would have gone to heaven.  Don't worry about it.”  They assured me of that, but I began to worry when she told me that there was a chance I could have gone to hell.  I didn't just want to accept the “feel good” answer or think naively about it.  I wanted to know if I would have died, where I would have been.  If I would have been in hell right then, I wanted to know it.  So, that is when I really started asking God where I would have gone.   Very shortly after that, a couple, who were friends with my sister, came over to have dinner with my parents and me just to encourage us after everything that had happened.  I found out that the man was studying in seminary to be a pastor.  I took that as my opportunity to ask someone if he thought I would have gone to hell if I had died.  He told me that every single one of us are created to be in a personal and intimate relationship with God, but because of our sin, because of the wrong things we have done, we are separated from Him eternally.  But that is why Jesus died for us—to pay the penalty for our sins—to reunite us with God.   Growing up in church, I had heard—I believed in God.  I believed Jesus was the Son of God and I knew that He died for my sins, but I never knew that there was a choice I needed to make or that I was created to be in a personal, intimate relationship with Him.  When this man told me this, I knew what he was telling me was truer than anything I had ever heard in my life, but I didn't want to just take his word for it.   I asked him to show me in the Bible.  He showed me a lot of different passages, but the verse that stood out to me the most was John 14:6.  That is where Jesus says, “I am the Way and the Truth and the Life.  No one comes to the Father but by Me.”  I just knew that was exactly what I needed to know.   I knew that the Father was in heaven—I knew that is where I wanted to go, but I knew that I had never made a personal decision to accept Jesus into my heart or my life or become a Christian.  I didn't have a relationship with Him; so that night, sitting on the floor of my parents' dining room, I accepted Him into my heart and into my life.   From that moment forward, I know that God was with me and the Holy Spirit was inside of me, working in many ways.  He brought all these different people into my life.  I ended up having a Christian counselor when I wasn't even seeking a Christian counselor.  She spoke a lot of truth into my life.   I went to a community college at the time.  I met this woman who just shined with more love and light and joy than anyone I had ever met in my life.  I remember going back from meeting her one day and saying, “God, I want to know You the way that lady knows You.”   What I felt Him telling me was, “Kristen, you have to let me be your best friend.  You have to start going to Me for everything.”  I was still going to my friends and my doctors and my parents before Him; but He was the One who created me.  He was the One who knew me.  He was the One who made me.  He knew my problems more than I did or anyone else did, and He knew the answers more than anyone else did.   So I started going to Him before everyone else.  I started centering my life around Him, putting Him first.  I got involved in a really good Christian church where I started to grow spiritually.  The closer I got with Him, the more I began to experience the joy and peace and contentment—just a love for life—like I never had before. Bob:  What is the timeframe from what we are talking about—it was January when you attempted suicide. Kristen:  Then it was March when I became a Christian—March of 2000.  I still struggled with suicidal thoughts and depression for about three years.  It was March 2003 when I started going to that church.  So my relationship with Him was very immature, but I was growing in that time. I think one of the biggest reasons I struggled in those three years with depression after my attempt is because I didn't know how important it was to be part of a Bible-believing, Gospel-preaching church—be a part of the body of Christ.  I didn't know how much having Christian friends would help me.   I also didn't know how real Satan was and that it was his desire to destroy me and mess with my life.  I didn't realize how important it was for me to read the Bible every single day.  I wasn't practicing a lot of things that I know would have been helpful for me in growing in my relationship with God. Dennis:  I find it interesting that God would use a woman who came up to you and who told you that you were going to hell.  Looking back on that, as offensive as that sounds here in this studio today, what are your thoughts about what that woman did and how God used that in your life? Kristen:  It was very difficult at the time, but I am very grateful that she was that bold at the time because it helped me see my need for Him.  It helped me think about where I would have gone eternally.  If I died, I never thought about it more than at that time in my life.   Dennis:  Was she loving as she said it, or was she condemning as she said it? Kristen:  She was just very frank. Bob:  You think of saying that to somebody who is three months' out of the hospital in a wheelchair, no legs; and just walking up and saying, “You know, it is a good thing you lived; because if had died, you would have gone to hell.”  It is bold.  Some people would say it is insensitive to say that; but you are sitting here going, “No.  It was sensitive to the real needs in my life.” Kristen:  I needed to hear it.  She could have said those words in a nicer way, but it was what I needed to hear—regardless.   Bob:  Kristen, the three years from when you trusted Christ in your parents' living room.  I have to ask you about that.  Were your parents sitting there as this seminary student is unveiling the gospel for you?   Kristen:  Yes. Bob:  What are they thinking? Kristen:  I have no idea what they were thinking.  I think they were all just focused on me.  They weren't thinking for themselves; they were just thinking... Bob:  ...maybe this will help Kristen. Kristen:  Right.  Exactly. Bob:  In their presence, did you pray that night? Kristen:  It was after the couple left and after my parents were doing their own thing.  They didn't know that I was accepting Christ as I sat on the floor that night.   Bob:  Did you say the next day, “Mom, Dad, I prayed last night to become a Christian”? Kristen:  I didn't tell them, but I told my best friend.   Dennis:  But you did tell somebody. Kristen:  Yes.   Bob:  The next three years you continued to battle, primarily because you didn't get plugged in.  Is that right? Kristen:  Yes; definitely.  I actually tried going to a number of churches, but they weren't wheel-chair accessible.  I never felt like I fit in there for one reason or another, but I visited this church that I ended up going to once before I ended up going back.  I knew that God wanted me to go there.  It was a whole year in between when I went back.  I knew that is where He wanted me to be finally.   Dennis:  Kristen, in listening to your story—the older I get, the more aware I am of how many people are hurting.  You have already said how many people have read your book and written you and have given it to other people because there are a lot of hopeless people—a lot of people who need to have hope born in their hearts, like He was born in your heart.   I think what I would like you to do is just to speak directly to that person who is listening who is pretty hopeless, who needs Christ.  Maybe he or she has been going to church; maybe they haven't.  Maybe they stumbled onto this broadcast, but they need to find the One who can redeem them from hell and from their sins and have hope born in their lives. Kristen:  If you are struggling with pain in your life, or with suicidal thoughts, or with depression, I want you to know that there is a reason you are here.  God created you for a purpose.  No matter what you are going through, it is temporary.  You are not alone.   He has tremendous plans for you.  There is hope in Christ that surpasses anything in this world.  He has so much hope for us.  He has so many plans for us—every single one of us.  Nobody is an accident, including you.  There is a reason you are here.  I just want to encourage you to, “Hold on.  Seek God with all of your heart.”  I know you will find Him.  He will bring you out of the depths of despair like He has me.   Dennis:  I just want to re-read that passage that was shared with you by that young man who was going through seminary, John14:6:  “Jesus said to him, ‘I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life.  No one comes to the Father except through Me.'”   Jesus Christ is the person at the center of Christianity.  He is the One who makes it possible for us to have a relationship with God.  He will meet you at your point of despair.  There is nothing you are facing, nothing you are going through, that is bigger than the God Who loves you.   My encouragement to that listener is to cry out to God in prayer—a simple prayer.  “Lord, be merciful to me, a sinner.  I want to know Jesus Christ as my Lord, Master, and Savior.”  If you do that, I have it on the authority of this book, the Bible, that He will meet you there; and He will save you from your disappointments, your sin—how you have offended God—and bring you into a right relationship with God. Bob:  There are probably some things you need to do—some next steps you need to take, as Kristen has talked about here today, so that you don't find yourself spiritually stagnant.  Many of those steps are outlined in a book we would like to send you at no cost—a book called Pursuing God.  This is a book we send out to those who are considering what it means to have a relationship with Jesus Christ.   Whether you have been in church throughout your life or not, if the spiritual lights are just starting to come on in your life, call us at 1-800-FLTODAY and let us send you a copy of the book Pursuing God by Jim Elliff.  It is our gift to you; and it is our hope that God will use this book in a powerful way to bring you into a relationship with Jesus and to help you walk in that relationship as His child, as you put your trust in Him.  You can request a copy of the book by calling 1-800-FLTODAY; that is 1-800-358-6329.   Let me also encourage you to go to our website FamilyLifeToday.com.  You can get information there about Kristen Anderson's book Life in Spite of Me—extraordinary hope after a fatal choice.  There are also other books we have listed on the website that talk about the issue of depression and suicide.  Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the resources we have available.  You can order online if you would like; or again, you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to request the resources you have heard us talk about today.   Let me also mention that today and tomorrow are the last two days you have an opportunity to sign up and join us on the FamilyLife Love Like You Mean It cruise which we are going to be taking in February of 2011, actually Valentine's week, February 14-18.  Dennis and Barbara Rainey are going to be on the cruise, along with Crawford and Karen Loritts, Kirk Cameron is going to be there, Shaunti Feldhahn is going to be there.  We are going to have music from Selah and Point of Grace and Big Daddy Weave.   It is going to be a great week for couples.  The FamilyLife Love Like You Mean It cruise.  The ship is almost full.  We have a limited number of cabins still available.  If you sign up by tomorrow, you can save 50 percent on your stateroom.  It is a buy one; get one free arrangement for the cruise.  All you have to do to take advantage of the special for FamilyLife Today listeners is type my name—type “BOB”—in the promo code box on the online registration form.  We hope you will get more information by going on FamilyLifeToday.com.  Click on the Love Like You Mean It cruise link, and we hope you will sign up and join us.  We look forward to seeing you as we set sail next February on Valentine's Day.   Let me also encourage you to be back here tomorrow.  Kristen Anderson is going to join us again, and we are going to talk more about her life following her attempted suicide and about the hope that she has found.  I hope you can tune in for that. I want to thank our engineer today Keith Lynch and our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our host Dennis Rainey; I'm Bob Lepine.  We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today. FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock Arkansas Help for today.  Hope for tomorrow. © 2010 FamilyLife __________________________________________________________________We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.  However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would   you consider donating today to help defray the costs?  Copyright © FamilyLife.  All rights reserved.www.FamilyLife.com     

I Survived My Suicide - Part 1I Survived My Suicide - Part 2I Survived My Suicide - Part 3FamilyLife Today® Radio TranscriptReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Life in Spite of MeDay 3 of 3 Guest:                          Kristen Jane Anderson From the Series:         And Then God...________________________________________________________________­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­Bob:  At age 17, Kristen Jane Anderson survived a suicide attempt.  Today, more than ten years later, she has a powerful message for those who find themselves in despair. Kristen:  If you're struggling with pain in your life or with suicidal thoughts or with depression, I want you to know that there's a reason you are here, that God created you for a purpose.  No matter what you're going through, it's temporary.  You're not alone.   He has tremendous plans for us, every single one of us.  Nobody is an accident including you.  There is a reason you're here.  So, I just want to encourage you to hold on, to seek God with all of your heart, and I know that you will find Him.  He will bring you out of the depths of despair like he has me. Bob:  This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, September 10th.  Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey and I'm Bob Lepine.  Kristen Anderson joins us today to give a reason for the hope that is within her.  And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.  We've been hearing a remarkable story of God's redeeming work in the heart and the life of a young woman this week.  A young woman who attempted suicide by laying across railroad tracks, and miraculously, God spared her life.   But, I'm just thinking, here we are at a point in the unfolding of this story where all of a sudden, life has meaning and purpose, joy and hope.  There's just this one bummer, and that is, “I don't have legs anymore.”  I don't mean to sound crass or trivial about it but… Dennis:  It's the result of what took place. Bob:  Here is hope re-dawning but, I'm in a wheelchair with no legs.  Life is going to be very different from here on out because of a decision I made—an impulsive decision—trying to end my own life. Dennis:  Well, that young lady joins us again on FamilyLife Today; she's the author of the book, Life in Spite Of Me.  Kristen Jane Anderson joins us again on FamilyLife Today, Kristen welcome back.  I just have to tell you, I really appreciate your willingness to go back and revisit some very painful moments both emotionally and physically as you shared about that attempt at suicide. Kristen:  Thank you; I really appreciate you having me on. Dennis:  I wanted to ask you, just as you have processed the loss of your legs like Bob is talking about here, people who lose a limb experience what's called “phantom pain”?  Kristen:  Yes. Dennis:  Or they have the feeling, the phantom is as though their legs are still there? Kristen:  Right. Dennis:  Do you experience that? Kristen:  Yes. I always feel like my legs are still there.  It's really interesting.  It's not like they feel normal or anything.  But it feels like they're still there.  It's very interesting. Bob:  Are there times you'll wake up in the middle of the night and without stopping to think about it, think “I'll just swing my legs out and get up out of bed”? Kristen:  Not as often as I used to.  In the beginning I used to always be really surprised by my wheelchair next to my bed.  But now I'm pretty used to it.  Every once in a while I'll think, “I want to go for a run.”  Or something like that, that I can't do any more. Bob:  The thing that I keep thinking about here is, at a point when your life experienced a radical transformation, you trusted Christ, you began to understand what it means to follow Him and to give your life to Him, and you're a new creation in Christ.  The thing is, the old you had legs, the new you doesn't.   Kristen:  Right. Bob:  How do you process that? Kristen:  The thing that helped me the most was learning that I was whole in Christ, whether or not I had legs isn't what made me whole.  He was more than enough for all of me, I didn't need anything more.  The more that I trusted Him, and I put my faith in Him, the more I just felt whole.  I realized I was going to fine without my legs.  I was going to be fine as long as I had Him.  I didn't need them as much as I needed Him. Dennis:  You said before we came into the studio, that you've been working with—is it a physician who creates prosthetics? Kristen:  Yes, he's called a prosthetist. Dennis:  You've been working with him for four years? Kristen:  Longer actually.Dennis:  Actually longer than that?  Yet, it's interesting to see your demeanor.  You have some opinions about why they have not been able to fit you with legs at this point. Kristen:  Yes.  I'm a difficult case to fit.  But I think that everything happens for a reason, and I think there's a reason I'm not walking now.  As I've tried to think through that, pray through that and see what the reasons might be, I feel like, it's just not God's time yet.  I think that He has used my story and me in a way that he had planned to use it with me in my wheelchair.   It has also taught me a tremendous amount of patience, and it has made me a lot more humble for me to be in my wheelchair. Dennis:  I'm listening to you say that, and I'm flashing back to the story of January 2nd, 2000, when you were draped across the railroad tracks and described something supernaturally, almost pushing you down as the train ran over you.  Even though your legs were severed, you lost them.  The condition of the young lady who had laid down on that track was without hope. Kristen:  Right. Dennis:  … had no purpose. Kristen:  Right Dennis:  The woman today who has no legs has a mission.  She's on a mission.  You're smiling.  There are a lot of people who would say “I don't get that.  How can you smile about that?  Do you really believe that God has a purpose?  Even in a self-described act of selfishness in trying to take your own life?” Kristen:  Only God can give me this kind of joy.  Only knowing Him and having a relationship with Him.  Nothing compares to knowing Him.  I am on a mission now.  You're right.  Because I want people to know that no matter what pain they're going through, no matter what they're feeling, no matter what they have in their past, or they're doing now, God can help them.   He can heal that pain, he can bring them out of their situations and their disappointments and he can make them whole again.  He can give them a purpose.  He has a purpose for them.  When He made them, when He created them he had a plan for their lives. Bob:  But, here's my question for you.  The joy that you're talking about, the hope the purpose, do you have that because you know you're supposed to, because you're a Christian—do you know what I'm saying?  It's like… Dennis:  And she goes to Moody Bible Institute… Bob:  I mean, I go to church and they've been telling me, “You find your joy and your hope in Christ so I guess I need to, and I'm on a mission so I need to tell people that I have hope and joy…” Dennis:  I wish people could see her face right now. Bob: “…because that's my job now.” Kristen:  No, that's not me at all.  I will tell you what I think no matter what.  That's just actually how I feel.  I tried to find joy in every other area of my life, and nothing else brought me joy.  Seeing myself through His eyes, and seeing the world through His eyes and accepting Him into my life, and having Him at the center of things just make everything work a lot differently; it changes everything for me. So, I'm excited because I know Him.  I'm happy because I know that I'm exactly where I need to be.  I have joy because He has forgiven me, because He gave me a second chance over and over and over again. Bob:  So you've got more joy with no legs than you ever had when you had your legs. Kristen:  Undoubtedly.  I wouldn't trade what's happened to me, what I've learned to have them back. Dennis:  As you talk to young people around the country, are you seeing a need for them to find the same spiritual legs that you have found.   Kristen:  Yes.  Every time I share my story with young people or older people.  They all come up to me—almost every single one of them—and tell me that they struggled with suicidal thoughts and depression at one time, they are now struggling or they know somebody who has.  So, they want to know how to help them or they want to know how they can be helped.   Suicide and depression is an epidemic in our culture.  Eight out of ten people think about suicide and one out of ten try.  It's the third cause of death of those between the ages of 15 and 24.  I just want to make any difference that I can in the lives of those people, and those statistics.  I know that they don't have to choose suicide as the answer, it's not an answer.  It's not a choice to even consider.  I want people to realize that there is another way, there is a much better way, it is the only way and that is through Jesus Christ. Bob:  One of the ways in which you've seen God demonstrate what He's doing in your life happened when you were baptized right? Kristen:  Yes.  When I was baptized, I shared my story for the first time, and it really helped me realize His faithfulness through all of it.  He did all of these little things to bring me into a relationship with Him. Dennis:  I want to just stop you for a second.  I want to put a timeline on this.  Your accident happened January 2, 2000.  You began a relationship with Christ in March, right?  How long before you were baptized? Kristen:  It was three years later.Dennis:  So you'd had some time to truly think about this decision you'd made, before you told your story publicly. Kristen:  Right.  I didn't even know that people were encouraged to get baptized after they accepted Christ until I started going to a church where I learned that.  So, everything—you couldn't have really seen the fruit in my life until I really started growing spiritually once I got to that church.  But when I shared my story, at my baptism that day, I cried like crazy.   At the end of it, they gave an invitation for people who had not accepted Christ yet, who wanted a relationship with Him, who wanted a new life with Him, and wanted to know they would go to Heaven.  My mom raised her hand that day at my baptism.  That was just the beginning of God bringing every single one of us in my family to Him.  It was an incredible time. Bob:  Did you know that?  Did you see her out in the congregation raising her hand? Kristen:  I saw her.  I was actually two people down from her at that time.  It was at the end of the service. Bob:  What did you think? Kristen:  I just remember thinking, “Thank you God, thank you God”  just giving Him praise.  I saw Him doing amazing things in my family.  I knew that the closer we all were with Him, the better our family life would be, and the more healthy we would be.  I just knew the difference it would make in our hearts and in our lives.  I wanted her to forgive herself. Dennis:  Oh, yes. Kristen:  She blamed herself for what I did and I knew it wasn't her fault.  I knew it wasn't my dad's fault.  It wasn't anyone's fault but my own.  I took full responsibility for it and I knew that if she could feel Christ's forgiveness, she could begin to forgive herself. Bob:  Was she the first person in your family to come to faith? Kristen:  Yes. Bob:  Who was next? Kristen:  Then it was my dad, then it was my brother. Dennis:  Before you go on to that.  Your dad had a special nickname for you. Kristen:  Yeah—How do you know this? Bob:  We do our research on stuff like this. Dennis:  What was that nickname?Kristen:  He called me “Speedy Two-Shoes.”   Dennis:  Why did he say that? Kristen:  Because I would run around the house and up and down the stairs and everything, like crazy. Dennis:  But he came to faith in Christ, too? Kristen:  Yes. Dennis:  Was that dramatic for him to place his faith in Christ? Kristen:  It has been incredible.  He is one of the largest encouragements in my life now.  He loves Christian radio, he listens to radio all the time, he reads his Bible all the time, he's always speaking… Bob:  Can we say hi to him right now?  We just want to say hi to your dad if he's listening to the radio. Kristen:  He's just an incredible blessing.  I cannot believe—he always says that he praises God for what He's done in my life.  He's just so grateful for the way He turned my life around, for the way Jesus turned my life around and for the ways he is using me now. Bob:  What was the turning point for him?   Kristen:  In Christian radio actually.  He listened to Moody radio a lot and that was the biggest thing for him.  He started reading his Bible.  When I started going to church, I brought my mom with me, and she brought my dad with her.  That's when it all happened.  Then, he brought my brother to a men's conference and that's when my brother became a Christian. Bob:  Wow. Dennis:  I'm just thinking, Bob.  You think back to the trauma of what Kristen has been through, the lack of hope that you had as a young person.  If somehow we could have come to you and told you what was going to occur, would you have believed it as a 15, 16, 17 year old young lady?  Would you have believed your family would be transformed by Jesus Christ? Kristen:  No.  I wouldn't have believed it. Dennis:  How are they more of a family today than they were back then? Kristen:  We're more of a family because we talk about things now.  We talk about real life.  We talk about what's hurting us, what helps us, what God is doing in our hearts and in our lives.  We pray together and we support each other and we encourage each other.  We did some of that before, but it was a lot more surface level, there were a lot more walls.  Now we are just completely real with each other, and we have Jesus at the center.  He just makes it all work in a completely different way. Dennis:  And it works perfectly.  There is never any conflict or any disappointment or… Kristen:  No.  It doesn't work—nothing is perfect.  But, it is completely different.  It is a lot easier now.  We know from scripture a much better way to handle problems and we know that God is with us.  We know He's going to carry us through whatever we face.  We know that he commands us to forgive one another, so we do that.  We mean it, and we love each other more. Bob:  You shared your story publically for the first time at your baptism.  But then people started saying, would you come share your story with this group or with that group.  Did that take you by surprise?  Were you a little uncomfortable with that at first? Kristen:  It was very surprising for me.  I wasn't expecting that at all.  But, because they heard me share my story at my baptism, they knew my story and they knew that it might help some young people.  That's why I decided to share it for the first time after my baptism.  It was at a high school youth group in my church.  I really just did it because I wanted them to learn from my mistakes, and didn't want them to have to have anything like that happen to them before they had a real growing relationship with Christ.  I just wanted to help them in any way that I could help them grow.   So, I shared my story and after I shared my story, almost all of them came up to me and told me that they were struggling.  They were reaching out for help because they didn't know how they could face another day or another year.  They were all in different situations.  I wanted to help them all, but I couldn't do that.  But, I began helping as many kids as I could.  I began speaking at other churches and youth events where I was invited to speak.   Bob:  You began helping them how?  What were you doing? Kristen:  I was just talking with them, I was just being there for them.  I was just loving them.  They just needed somebody who understood and who could give them, godly advice.  So I tried to do that as best as I could as I was growing spiritually. Bob:  We don't realize how huge that is in the life of a teenager, for somebody to come along and say, “I'll listen, I'll talk.  Just share whatever you want to share.” Dennis:  Yes, but what really gave you the credibility, is that you were willing to be authentic.  I mean, you are a living testimony, a living illustration… Kristen:  I didn't pretend like my life was perfect, or like it ever was.  I told them exactly what it was, and what it is now. Dennis:  If I was a parent, listening to you right now, I think I might be a little afraid.  No, seriously, for young people today growing up in this culture, why do you think young people today seem to be more susceptible to what you're calling “hopelessness and suicide, and despair”?   Kristen:  I think they're more impressionable.  I think they think more about what other people think about them.  They are not content with who they are.  They have all the pressures of media to look this way, or get this car or whatever it is.  They don't think they are ever good enough.  They don't think they'll ever amount to anything.  They think that they aren't beautiful, they think that they're not special, they don't know that God made them, created them for a purpose or for a reason.   I think that, I would be scared as a parent for those reasons too.  I think that the best thing that parents can do, though is to be authentic with their kids just like they want their youth leaders to.  They need to be the first encouragement in their lives after Christ.  Not the youth pastor, not the youth leaders, they need to be involved, they need to ask the questions, they need to have the real vulnerable talks, and they need to be open to whatever they are saying, whatever they're going through, and whatever their friends are going through.  They need to keep the lines of communication open, I guess, because that was one of the problems for me.  I didn't feel like my mom would understand.  I thought she would think badly of me, or of my friends.   Bob:  You started, not only speaking at youth group or some places around town, but now you are getting invitations to travel and speak.  And you spoke at the chapel at Moody Bible Institute.  You spoke in Christian colleges, I mean it started to just snowball for you. Kristen:  Yes, I was getting more requests to share my story specifically, than I could even go.  I couldn't go all the places I was being invited.  Bob:  Then at one point, you got a call to come share your story in an unusual setting. Kristen:  Yes, I got a call to share my story on Oprah, and that was in 2006. Dennis:  There was only one condition that you gave the producers of Oprah, it was the condition that you would appear on the program. Kristen:  I told them that I would be on the show if they would let me share Jesus and my faith, because, that was the biggest part of my story.  That was my story, I couldn't change it. Dennis:  You didn't have anything to say if you couldn't talk about Him. Kristen:  Exactly. Dennis:  I want to go to a bigger issue of your future.  I have a feeling there is a listener or two wondering, “I wonder what her dreams are for her life.”  Tell us what you'd like to do, and be long haul.  You want to be a wife?  A mom?  Huh? Kristen:  I think that God created me to be a wife and a mother more than anything else.  But I also think that He made me to help bring other people into a closer relationship with Him.  So, that is my main focus, my main drive right now before I get married and have children.   Dennis:  But if you meet the right guy, you are beaming right now.  If you meet the right guy, you're going to go to a Weekend to Remember® marriage getaway.  You're going to go through the pre-married section. Kristen:  Yes. Dennis:  You already had some coaching on this.  And she's grinning.  We'll stop right there, Bob. Bob:  I think that's wise of you to do. Dennis:  I think it is. Bob:  Yes.  Dennis:  Well, I just want you to know, I really admire you and your courage.  I think it could have been very easy for a young lady in a hospital bed, waking on January 3, 2000, to have just, given up, and maybe gone ahead and died.  But somehow God pursued you and gave you a flicker of hope.  You didn't give into hopelessness but took something that was really a wrong choice, a bad choice at the time, and you turned to Him.  I'm just thrilled to hear your story of redemption, Kristen, and, to hear of God's work in your life.  I hope you'll not only share Jesus Christ with the hundreds of thousands  of folks who'll be listening to FamilyLife Today, but also millions through your book, and other speaking engagements that God gives you.  Thanks for being on our broadcast.   Kristen:  Thank you so much.  It was a pleasure to meet both of you. Bob:  I have to tell you, I think there are a lot of people who have heard you share your story this week who are thinking, “Boy, I'd love to read her story.  But more than that, I know someone who could really benefit from reading Kristen's story.”  The book you've written is called Life in Spite of Me, we've got it in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.   Let me encourage you to go online at FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on how to order a copy of Kristen's book.  We also have other resources on depression and on suicide.  You can find those when you go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com or if you need help, if you're looking for something specific, call 1-800-FL-TODAY and talk to someone on our team about what resources we might have available, either online or something we can send out to you.   Again, the toll free number 1-800-358-6329. That's 1-800 F as in “family” L as in “life” and then the word TODAY.  Or go online at FamilyLifeToday.com.   Now, I need to remind listeners, today is the last day that you can sign up for our FamilyLife Love Like You Mean It Cruise, that is going to be sailing from south Florida on Valentine's Day, February 14th, 2011.  Dennis and Barbara Rainey are going to be on board the ship, along with Crawford and Karen Loritts, Kirk Cameron, Shaunti Feldhahn, Mary Ann and I are going to be there as well.  Music from Point of Grace and Selah, and Big Daddy Weave.  It's going to be a great week for couples and we hope you can come along.   I say today's the last day to sign up, actually you can sign up after today, but two things are happening.  First of all, the ship is starting to fill up, and secondly, today is the last day for the buy-one-get-one-free half price offer that we're making to FamilyLife Today listeners.   If you sign up today, and you type my name, type “BOB” where you see the promo code box on the online form, you will save 50 percent on your stateroom costs.  So, again get more information by going online at FamilyLifeToday.com, click the link to the Love Like You Mean It cruise, and get signed up today.  Then we'll see you Valentine's Day as we set sail from south Florida. And with that we've got to wrap things up for today.  I hope you have a great weekend.  I hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend.  I hope you can join us back on Monday.  Paul Miller is going to be here to help us unravel the mystery of prayer, and talk about what we can do to have a richer, deeper, prayer life.  We'll talk about that Monday, I hope you can be with us. I want to thank our engineer today Keith Lynch and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you Monday for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today.  Hope for tomorrow. © Copyright 2010 __________________________________________________________________We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.  However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would   you consider donating today to help defray the costs?  Copyright © FamilyLife.  All rights reserved.www.FamilyLife.com     

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Captured For Ransom in the Philippines - Part 1Captured For Ransom in the Philippines - Part 2Captured For Ransom in the Philippines - Part 3FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Love Finds a Way to the Philippines Guest:                         Gracia BurnhamFrom the series:       In the Presence of My Enemies (Day 1 of 3)  Bob: Martin and Gracia Burnham had served for years as missionaries in the Philippines. Back in 2002, they got away for a few days of rest and recuperation when, one morning, the door of the cabin where they were staying was kicked in. Gracia: We knew that we were in big trouble, and we knew that we were being kidnapped; but we didn't know by whom. And then, when we realized it was the Abu Sayyaf, we knew what was going to happen because everyone follows all those hostage situations. It's like one starts, and then it ends. Everybody breathes easy for a bit. Then another one starts, and another one ends; and here it was us in the middle of this. Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, July 1st. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We'll hear from Gracia Burnham today about the events that led up to the kidnapping and the 12-month hostage ordeal that she and her husband went through. Stay with us. 1:00 And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. It was back more than a decade ago that we had the opportunity to sit down and talk with Gracia Burnham. Together, with her husband, Martin, Gracia had been held captive for more than a year by Islamic terrorists in the Philippines. Her story had been followed by the American media. It was a powerful, compelling story and a story of God's grace and His very real presence in the midst of suffering. We thought it would be good to revisit that story and listen back to what stands out for us as one of the most compelling programs we've featured on FamilyLife Today in our 20-plus years of ministry.  2:00Here is Part One of our interview with Gracia Burnham, originally recorded in 2003. [Previously Recorded Interview] Dennis: We are going to feature a story over the next couple of days, Bob, that, personally, I've been looking forward to hearing the rest of the story. I don't know that I've ever heard of a couple getting away for a romantic weekend that was interrupted in such a dramatic way. I mean, picture yourself in full-time ministry overseas and needing a break. Now, that occurs in missionary staff, and they need to get a break. So this couple decided that they would find a cool spot. They found a cool spot and were sleeping when there was a [knocking sound] at the door. 3:00 And the rest of the story is—man! It's a story of faith, of courage, of suffering that—well, I was riveted by the book, In the Presence of My Enemies, written by Gracia Burnham. And Gracia joins us on FamilyLife Today. Gracia: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Dennis: Gracia, I really have been looking forward to meeting you. Barbara watched me read your book; and she said, "That must really be good!" Bob: A page-turner? Dennis: It is. Gracia and her husband Martin served with New Tribes Missions for more than 17 years.  Gracia: Yes. Dennis: They have three children. I want you to tell us about that romantic getaway. You really needed it; didn't you? Gracia: Well, yes. New Tribes Mission Aviation—Martin was a jungle pilot—had been after Martin to become their new chief pilot from the Philippines. He'd just been in the States two weeks.  4:00 The Palawan pilot's dad died. That pilot had to go home to the States for a funeral, which meant that there were Bible translators that needed to get from one village to another; and there were kids that needed to get home from Faith Academy—there was a busy flight schedule on Palawan. Martin called me from the States and said: "I'm not going to be able to come home. I'm going to have to go to Palawan and fly."   So, I cleared up my schedule and went to meet him in Palawan. I got someone to take care of the kids where we live, but I knew that he would have jet lag and would need some time to rest. Bob: Right. Gracia: So I called our co-workers on Palawan and said, "Where is a good place where we can go for, you know, just even 24 hours, so Martin can rest, and sleep, and get ready for a heavy flight schedule?" They told me about Dos Palmas, a resort that was an island all of its own, off the coast of Palawan.  5:00 To get there, you had to take kind of a fishing vessel. I told my friends to book us in, and then they told me the price. It was right on the tip of my tongue to say, "Oh, could you just find us a place in town?" And I didn't say it because our anniversary was coming up; and I justified the cost by saying, “This will be our anniversary treat.”  And we did. We went to Dos Palmas and had a wonderful time—a beautiful meal / it was really, really nice—and went to bed that night. Then, even before dawn the next morning, that knock on the door—the pounding on the door—woke us up. Three men with M-16s ran into the room and took Martin immediately out. Then a guy came over to me, and pointed his weapon at me, and said in English, "Go, go, go!"   6:00 I said: “No, no, no! I don't have clothes on.” I was just trying to grab something right there by the bed. I grabbed what I'd had on at the beach the night before—just shorts and a t-shirt. They took me right out the door. They emptied all the little cottages that we were staying in that were on stilts over the water. When they emptied all those out, there were 20 of us hostages—3 Americans and the rest were Filipinos. As we pulled away from the dock, they raised their weapons in the air. I guess there were about 15 of these guys. We knew, right away, it was the Abu Sayyaf. They're a Muslim terrorist organization which funds itself by kidnapping and ransom. Dennis: Yes. Gracia: But they'd never been known to be on Palawan.  7:00 We always avoided the hot spots in the Philippines. For some reason, the Abu Sayyaf chose Palawan and Dos Palmas. Bob: So, was it not until that moment on the boat, with the guns raised, that you knew who these people were and what the agenda was? Gracia: Yes, that's when we knew who they were. Bob: Prior to that, when somebody is in your bedroom with a gun pointed at you, what are you thinking? Gracia: Well, we knew we were in big trouble. We knew that we were being kidnapped, but we didn't know by whom. Then, when we realized it was the Abu Sayyaf, we knew what was going to happen because we read the newspapers. A year before, they had taken a bunch of European business people from an island down closer to Malaysia, and everyone follows all those hostage situations. It's like one starts, and then it ends; and here it was us in the middle of this. 8:00 Dennis: Let's leave the speedboat for a moment, and let's go back to when you and Martin met—all the way back to the beginning of your relationship.  Gracia: Yes. Dennis: You both were really missions-minded from the very beginning; weren't you? Gracia: Yes, we were. Martin grew up on the mission field. His parents are tribal missionaries. When Martin was a little boy, they moved their family to the Philippines and started working with the Ibaloi tribe—a tribe up in the mountains, where there are no roads. To reach those people, they built a small airstrip. That's how they would get their supplies—a pilot in a bush plane would bring their supplies, and their medicines, and stuff to them.Dennis: Martin grew up with that? Gracia: Martin grew up there. He went off to boarding school at Faith Academy, which was a very common thing to do back then—people didn't really home school back then. 9:00 Dennis: Yes. Gracia: When he graduated from high school, he went to Calvary Bible College in Kansas City. That's where I met him. I was a Calvary student, and we got to know each other. I liked Martin because he was different. A lot of the guys I knew—you know, they really cared about how they looked and had to be—we didn't us the word, "preppy," back then, but they were—you could tell they were just trying their best to be preppy. [Laughter] Well, Martin truly wasn't. He loved jeans, and flannel shirts, and cowboy boots. He was just himself, and I just really liked that. We got to know each other and— Dennis: It started out as a friendship. Gracia: Yes; yes, for sure. Dennis: And then when did he ask you out?  Gracia: Ha! Dennis: When it really became a relationship—you became an item for him. Gracia: Well, I broke up with this guy—you know the story—my heart was broken.  10:00 I had just broken up with this guy and thought: “You know, I will never date again. That's it—my life is ruined."  And the very next day, Martin walked into the Dean's office, where I was the Dean of Students' secretary, and asked me if I wanted to go to the fall concert, of all things. Well, I decided to say, “Yes.” Dennis: Your broken heart was not healed, but— Bob: A little salve on it pretty quick. [Laughter]  Did you, prior to knowing Martin, did you have a missions' orientation? Gracia: Oh, I did. My favorite books were the books about Amy Carmichael and Mary Slessor—you know, who went into tribes in Africa and told the chief off. Those were my heroes. [Laughter] I always had a heart for missions. 11:00 Bob: So, your friendship with Martin, which was beginning to grow and increase / his friendship with you, growing and increasing—both of you with a heart for the field—there had to be conversations, in those early days, about where you thought you were both headed in service to the Lord. Gracia: Yes, I'm sure there were. I just really fell in love with him, truly. I was thrilled that he was going to be a missionary; but if he had chosen to be an airline pilot, I would have been happy with that because I just wanted to be with him—if that makes any sense. Dennis: And you were married. Gracia: Yes. Dennis: And how long, then, before you headed off on your overseas adventure? Gracia: We crop-dusted for one summer in Nebraska so he could get some real good training for the mission field. Then we, right after that, we went into New Tribes Mission training; and their training is quite extensive.  12:00 You go to—they call it Missions Institute now—it used to be called Boot Camp. You go for a year of Boot Camp just to see if you can live in Spartan conditions—I guess is what you would call it.  Bob: Well, I have to imagine a young bride at Boot Camp.  Gracia: Oh, my goodness! Yes! [Laughter] Bob: You know—part of the romance of being married—you can think about: “The mission field will be exciting. It will be fun,” but about the 40th time you're carrying the slop water up the hill, did you have some doubts? Did you think, "Couldn't we serve the Lord in some other capacity?" Gracia: I had doubts about whether I could do it. There were several girls in my shoes—who had just gotten married and gone off to Boot Camp—and, you know, it came time to cook. I didn't know, really, how to cook yet. I remember buying a chicken—you know, if you buy a whole chicken, it's cheaper. I got the chicken home, and I didn't know how to cut it up.  Bob: Yes. Gracia: So, you know, I had to go to the neighbor and say, "Could you teach me how to cut up a chicken?"  13:00 How good that was—you know, on the mission field, you end up catching your chicken, and plucking your chicken, and cutting up your chicken. [Laughter] So, you have to learn someday. Bob: But there was never any thought of "I don't know that I want to live for the next 10 years / 15 years in conditions like we're simulating here at Boot Camp"? Gracia: No, no, I was happy to do that. Bob: I mean, you're not talking about, “What kind of wallpaper do you want in the kitchen?” Gracia: No, oh, my goodness. Bob: You know, and a lot of young ladies grow up dreaming of that domestic life. Gracia: Yes; well, you know what? I really loved Martin. It might not make a whole lot of sense, but I was happy to do anything God had called him to do. Maybe I wasn't going to have that little house, with the white picket fence; but life was going to be good because I would be with him, and I would be doing what God had called us to do. 14:00Dennis: You then went to the Philippines, and Martin began to fly. And the reason I wanted to say that is—I want to read a paragraph from your book that struck me because it gives us a glimpse into the character of the man you married. You write:  "Before long, Martin knew everything about every missionary. He knew who was struggling financially; he knew which husbands and wives weren't getting along; he knew who was discouraged with language study because they weren't catching on as fast as they had hoped; he saw the newborn babies; he got to congratulate missionary kids on their home school projects; he met villagers who had recently become believers. Martin was the perfect person to hear it all. He just had a heart for everyone he came in contact with, and everyone who knew him loved him.” He was more than a pilot!  Gracia: Yes. Dennis: I really like that because, you know, we think sometimes that a pilot for New Tribes Mission is just going to be on a task—flying supplies in / flying people in and out. Gracia: Yes. 15:00 Dennis: And yet he took an interest in the people he served. Gracia: Yes. You know, Martin used to say: “We didn't think of ourselves as the ‘real missionaries.'  In our minds, the real missionaries were the people in the tribe—learning the language, doing literacy, doing medical, learning a new culture, planting churches, doing Bible translation. We were just there to keep the tribal missionary in the tribe—that was our goal.” Dennis: In the midst of all these flights, in and out, God was growing your faith at the same time. In fact, there's a story you tell about a time when you were moved to pray for Martin during one of these trips. Gracia: Yes. That was one year just before Christmas. I think it was his last flight before Christmas break.  16:00 It was kind of an unusual flight for us because it was a businessman who wanted a flight to Davao. Martin took him and our buyer. The buyer is the person who buys everything for these eight to ten families that you service out in the jungle—he just buys, all day long, and boxes things up and makes sure they're in the hangar on the right day.  Martin was about ten minutes into his flight; and he called me and he said, "We have a problem here.” Then there was silence. I waited and nothing happened for a minute. I called him back and said, “Are you going to tell me what your problem is?” And he said: “I'm losing oil pressure. Something's wrong here. I'm above the clouds—so I don't know what's below us." A few minutes later, he called and said, "I've turned the engine off because we were pumping oil overboard.”  17:00 Before the engine seized on its own, he turned it off. He had just broken through the clouds, and he could see the valley below him. Well, now, he was just gliding into the valley. Bob: And our listeners need to understand that, when you turn off the engine on a plane, you don't just go into a nose dive—you glide for a while. Gracia: You glide; yes. Bob: So he was able to control the plane and keep it flying—  Gracia: Yes. Bob: —even though the engine was off. Gracia: Yes. We have an interesting photo—the buyer took a photo of the stopped propeller. It was so quiet in the cockpit and, especially, that businessman was very quiet. They started gliding into the valley, and Martin started looking. There was an SIL Wycliffe Bible Translators' Center down in that valley.  18:00 Martin said, "I'm going to try to make it to the SIL base"; and he did. He said he cleared their fence by about 50 feet—he said—and came to a dead-stick landing. He had called them ahead to tell them about the emergency. They said they had a hallelujah meeting when he got on the ground. [Laughter] Bob: I bet his wife, on the other end of the radio, was having a hallelujah meetin'. Gracia: She was. Oh, Martin!—you know, he always had a sense of humor. That day, when he came home—you know, it could have been a dramatic: “Oh! I was so worried about you!” He walked in the gate. He looked at me, with this twinkle in his eye—he glanced at his watch—and he said, “I told you I'd be home by 10:00.” You know, it was just— Bob: —just another day. [Laughter] Gracia: That's how he was—he just always saw the good. Bob: But didn't you, in the back of your mind, after moments like that, think, "We've done enough here"? 19:00                                                                               Gracia: No, I never thought that. In fact, that was the best Christmas we ever had because we were enjoying each other so much. We knew that things could have happened much differently, and we had the most wonderful Christmas. No, we never talked about not doing that again. We loved what we were doing. Bob: But the next time—he might not have made it to the base. Gracia: That's true. Bob: And that's just part of how you live. Gracia: These things happen, I guess; huh? Those things happen in America—you can go off to work, and you have no guarantee that you're going to come home at night. Dennis: Yes, the folks— Gracia: You just forget— Dennis: —on September 11th—you know, the same thing— Gracia: That's right. Dennis: —God has a plan for us.  Gracia: Yes. Dennis: We just live under the illusion thinking we're in control. We're really not in control.  20:00 And you're going to hear a dramatic story, over the next couple of days, that, if you were in the middle of that story—as I had to put myself and my wife Barbara—and I had to think, "How would I have translated what was happening?" It was such insanity to think of being captured and kidnapped by a terrorist group and to watch the conditions under which Gracia and her husband lived for more than a year.  Today, there are people listening to us who are living in circumstances—that may not be in a jungle spot in the Philippines—but they are in a jungle of their own. The God of the universe wants to reach out to you and let you know He wants to take the insanity and make sense of it. He wants to teach you to trust Him. Jesus Christ is alive from the dead. It's not a myth / it's not a story that somebody made up—He's here—He's alive / He can guide you even through the darkest moment. 21:00 [Studio] Bob: I think about the hundreds of thousands—really, millions of people who heard a testimony of your faithfulness back when this happened in 2002. In the years since then, Gracia has written a book called In the Presence of my Enemies. It was a New York Times best-seller that sold more than 350,000 copies.  In fact, you have—since the book was published, you have gone back and revised it, and updated it, and included information in the book about a return trip to the Philippines that you have taken since all of this happened. We've got copies of the updated version of the book, In the Presence of my Enemies, in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.  If our listeners are interested, they can go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the screen that says, “GO DEEPER.”  22:00 You'll see information about Gracia's book right there. You can order it from us, online; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to place your order. Again, FamilyLifeToday.com is the website. The toll-free number is 1-800-358-6329. The title of the book is In the Presence of my Enemies, written by our guest today, Gracia Burnham. You know, I think one of the things that Gracia's story illustrates is the importance of us having a firm foundation, spiritually, in our lives because none of us knows what's around the corner. None of us knows what's coming tomorrow for us—what events / what circumstances we may have to face. The time to pour a solid spiritual foundation in your life is not when the storms are coming—it's before they come so that, when the storms come, you can stand firm and find your hope and your strength in Christ. 23:00 We're committed, here at FamilyLife, to helping you with that. Our goal is to provide practical biblical help for your marriage and your family, day-in and day-out. We want to effectively develop godly families who change the world, one home at a time. And we're grateful that there are listeners, like you, who share that burden and who have joined with us in this ministry as financial supporters. We're listener-supported. More than 65 percent of the funding that we need to operate this ministry comes from people making donations—either as monthly Legacy Partners or as folks who contribute, from time to time, in support of the ministry. In fact, if you'd like to make a donation right now, it's easy to do. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper right-hand corner of the screen that says, “I CARE,” and make an online donation. Or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make your donation over the phone.  24:00 Or you can mail your donation to us at FamilyLife Today, PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. Our zip code is 72223.  Now, tomorrow, we're going to hear more about the 12-month ordeal as Martin and Gracia Burnham were in captivity, held by Islamic terrorists in the Philippines. We'll hear more of that story tomorrow. I hope you can tune in for that. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.  We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?   Copyright © 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com    

Captured For Ransom in the Philippines - Part 1Captured For Ransom in the Philippines - Part 2Captured For Ransom in the Philippines - Part 3FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Getaway Takes a Wrong Turn Guest:                         Gracia BurnhamFrom the series:       In the Presence of My Enemies (Day 2 of 3)  Bob: Back in 2002, for more than 12 months, missionaries Martin and Gracia Burnham were held hostage, having been kidnapped by an Islamic terrorist group.  Gracia: For the first few weeks, we were both chained together to a tree. Then they saw that I wasn't going to go anywhere without Martin, and they quit chaining me. Bob: The Burnhams lived for months in the remote jungles of the Philippines, always under the watchful eye of their captors and always on the run. Gracia: We never knew when the guns were going to start blaring—you know, they had found us again; and we would start running. Many times, we would lose everything in one of those gun battles because we weren't prepared every moment. When there are bullets whizzing over your heads, you don't think, "Oh, I have to get my brush, and I need to get my clothes that are drying on the bushes." 1:00 Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, July 2nd. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We'll talk today with Gracia Burnham and hear a dramatic, compelling story of her life in captivity. Stay with us. And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition. We're spending some time this week revisiting a program that was originally recorded and first aired in 2003, as we had the opportunity to sit down with Gracia Burnham. She and her husband Martin had been in the news that year because they had both been kidnapped and held by Islamic terrorists in the Philippines for more than a year. That capture had ended with a rescue attempt. Gracia's husband, Martin, was actually killed in that rescue attempt. 2:00 Gracia shared her story in a book she had written called In the Presence of My Enemies. Honestly, the story she shared was so powerful, it's one of those programs that listeners have talked about for years since it was aired. We wanted you to hear the story again. So here is Part Two of our conversation from 2003 with Gracia Burnham. [Previously Recorded Interview] Dennis: Gracia Burnham has joined us here for a second day. She is the author of In the Presence of My Enemies. She and Martin served in the New Tribes Mission Ministry in the Philippines for more than 17 years. Gracia—welcome back to FamilyLife Today. Gracia: Thank you very much. 3:00 Dennis: When we left off on the story yesterday, you had decided to greet Martin to help him get over his jet lag at a nice, romantic island; but in the middle of the night, you were awakened by a terrorist group who kidnapped you and threw you on a boat, along with 20 others? Gracia: Yes, there were 17 others—there were 20 of us. Dennis: In a boat that was not that large. Gracia: Yes, it was totally overloaded, which is typical for the Philippines, though. They overload everything.  Dennis: The boat ride lasted how long? Gracia: All day long—sun-up to sundown. And then, they transferred us onto a fishing vessel that they had commandeered—which was bigger—but by the time you got 20 hostages—and I think there were about 20 Abu Sayyaf and 10 or 20 fishermen—that vessel was overloaded too. For the next three days, we were out across the ocean on that fishing vessel. Bob: What did you and Martin talk about as you were on the boat? I mean, you had to be kind of trying to figure out: “What's going to happen? How long is this going to go? How do we get out of this?” 4:00 Gracia: You know, we weren't doing a whole lot of talking because we were trying to figure things out. We were trying to listen more than talk. Dennis: You said that, on that boat, the hardest thing, however, were your three children— Gracia: Yes, yes. Dennis: —and the memory of what was being taken away from you, at that point. Gracia: Yes. Right away, the words I'd spoken to my kids: "We'll be gone for one week," came back to me. I knew we weren't going to be gone for just one week. I knew it was—this was going to take a while. I felt so bad for them, and I started praying for them. Bob: And did you think that the ordeal would end—did it typically end with a ransom being paid?  Is that what had happened with the Europeans? Gracia: Yes. It always ended with a ransom being paid. 5:00 Bob: And so, did you think, “That's what will happen—somebody will come up with the ransom”? Gracia: Well, when they were going around the hostages—talking to each one, asking them, you know: “How much can your family pay for you?”—they got to Martin and me. They said: "We will treat you differently. We will ask for political concessions for you, and we will deal with you last." I kind of wish now that we had just said, "Well, you give us the phone; and we'll try to get a ransom together."  Bob: Yes. Gracia: We knew that New Tribes Mission would not pay a ransom. We never expected that because that would put all the missionaries in danger. Bob: Yes, I want to ask you about that because, after you got back, there was an article that appeared in Christianity Today—. Gracia: Oh, yes. Bob: —just because some folks may have read that. Gracia: Yes. Bob: There was some concern that maybe your heart was that New Tribes should have paid a ransom. Gracia: Yes, I don't know how that happened.  6:00 We had a really great interview, but somehow what I meant to say never got communicated in Christianity Today. That article really broke my heart because, in that article, it basically said I had issues with New Tribes Mission; and if they had paid a ransom, Martin would still be alive; and Martin had died needlessly. I never said those things—that's not my heart. The thing that bothered me most about the Christianity Today article is that I don't feel like God got any glory from that article. If that doesn't happen, we wasted a year in the jungle. Bob: Yes. Gracia: That's what hurt me most, I think. Bob: So your heart was—New Tribes should not pay a ransom— Gracia: No. I knew they wouldn't. Bob: —and it's appropriate not to—it puts other missionaries in jeopardy, as you said.  Gracia: Yes. 7:00 Bob: And so if they're not going to do that, you're there at your own peril. Gracia: Oh, yes; and we knew that / we understood that. Bob: It's what you'd signed up for at one level. Now, you never expected it would happen—it doesn't happen to most missionaries—but in the back of your mind, you always knew there is, at least, the possibility that “We could be in danger,”—and that was okay. Gracia: Yes, for sure. Yes, that's part of the job. Dennis: You landed on an island. That began, really, your jungle trek. Gracia: Yes. Dennis: I mean—on, and on, and on you ran from the Philippine Army.  Gracia: Yes. Dennis: Explain to our listeners what the living conditions were like. I mean, it was as primitive as I've ever heard anyone describe it. Gracia: Well, we basically had the clothes on our back. We would walk all day, trying to get to a safe area—"safe."  8:00 Now, most of the Abu Sayyaf guys had hammocks. When it got time to rest or time for the night, they would put their hammocks up between trees. For the first six months, Martin and I just slept on the jungle floor—wherever we happened to be. We didn't have possessions—we didn't have soap—we didn't have, really, anything. Bob: Were you given time to bathe in a river / to shampoo your hair?—there was no shampoo. Gracia: Well, every once in a while, they would let us take a bath.  Bob: Was that a weekly bath that maybe you got? Gracia: Maybe weekly—not usually weekly—every several weeks. I remember—once, Martin went six weeks without a bath. Dennis: The things you treasured were what I found interesting—I mean, a bar of soap/ a toothbrush— Gracia: —a toothbrush, a brush for my hair / a comb—those were wonderful things to have. Bob: And were you wearing the same pair of shorts / same t-shirt that you had put on the night you were captured? How long did you wear that? 9:00 Gracia: Well, pretty much that's what I wore for weeks and weeks. I should explain that our clothes would come and go. You know, what you had on your body is what you had. We never knew when the guns were going to start blaring—you know, they had found us again—and we would start running. When the bullets start whizzing— Dennis: —and when you say, "they had found you again," we're talking again about the Filipino Army. They were in pursuit of this terrorist group, trying to catch them, and free you all. Gracia: Yes. And we never knew when another "encounter"—they called it—was going to start. Many times we would lose everything in one of those gun battles because we weren't prepared every moment. When there are bullets whizzing over your heads, you don't think, "Oh, I have to get my brush— Bob: "I need to pack now." [Laughter] 10:00 Gracia: Yes; "I need to get my brush, and I need to get my clothes that are drying on the bushes." So, our belongings would come and they would go.  Dennis: Many times, Martin would sleep chained or tied to a tree. Gracia: He was always chained to a tree. They had handcuffs for him. At night, they would put a chain through the handcuffs and chain him to a tree. Dennis: But not you? Gracia: Well, for the first few weeks, we were both chained together to a tree. And then they saw that I wasn't going to go anywhere without Martin, and they quit chaining me. Bob: I'm guessing that sleeping with handcuffs on, chained to a tree, is not your preferred method—not the most comfortable way to try and sleep. Gracia: Oh, no; and neither is the jungle floor—you know, we could always find the root if there was a root on the ground—we would find it right where our ribs were. It's like we could never find a flat place—there was always something poking us. 11:00 Dennis: Were you covered with mosquito bites? Gracia: Oh, yes. Oh, for sure. Dennis: I think of the Philippines—I mean, did they just buzz you all night long? Gracia: Yes, they did. We had, for most of our time, what we called malongs. They are big, long pieces of material that have been sewn up the middle to make a tube. Dennis: Kind of like a sleeping bag? Gracia: Kind of—just one-ply—one piece of material. Dennis: Right. Gracia: And that was our blanket. We would just cover as much of us as we could with those malongs to keep the mosquitoes off; but it is also the tropics—and you just start sweating in there. You know, the sweat just starts dripping. So, you can choose to have mosquitoes in your ears and all around, biting you; or you can choose to be sweaty and hot. Dennis: And it would rain too. 12:00 Gracia: Yes, many times we walked and sat in the rain, and we would just be soggy until we drip-dried. Bob: Did your captors feed you? Gracia: They fed us when they had food. There was never enough food. When we first started out, there were about 120 Abu Sayyaf; and that's a lot of people to feed.  Bob: Yes. Gracia: That's a lot of sacks of rice. Bob: So, you would go sometimes days without anything to eat? Gracia: Yes; yes, we would. Bob: Gracia, there had to be, in the midst of this—nights, or days, or times when you are physically exhausted, you are starving, you are covered with mosquito bites—and you are crying out and going, "Lord, I cannot survive this." Gracia: Yes, I said that a lot. And the crying out—I cried a lot. You know, the Abu Sayyaf didn't even like to see that. They hated to see me sitting around crying, but I did it a lot. 13:00 Dennis: Were they cruel to you? Gracia: Yes; I don't know how you define cruelty. On one hand, they were very kind; and if they ate, we ate. But I remember—like, one instance, my reaction to the stress, and the gun battles, and the living conditions was stomach trouble and diarrhea—you know, I always had problems.  One night, I knew I was going to have to go into the forest in the night because I had diarrhea. I told the guy, as he was chaining me: "Could I just be free tonight?  I won't go anywhere. I'll be here in the morning." They refused, and they chained me anyway. I had to go to the bathroom in the night—I thought, “What do I do?” I called my guard, who had the key—who could let me free—he wouldn't let me free.  14:00 To me, that was cruel. They could have let me go to the bathroom. Bob: Their hope with you and with the other hostages was that someone would step forward and pay a ransom. Was that happening? Were there hostages being set free because ransoms were being paid? Gracia: Yes. One by one, the hostages were set free when their families came through with a payment. As time went on, we saw that these political concessions they wanted were not going to happen for us. Bob: Yes. Gracia: And it got to be where they wanted a ransom. Bob: How soon was the earliest hostage set free? Was it a month into the ordeal—do you remember? Gracia: No; one couple was released like less than a week into our captivity. Dennis: Yes. Gracia: And it took about another week for a couple more / and another week for a couple more—then it was several months. 15:00 Bob: How long before it was just you and Martin? Gracia: Six/seven months. Actually, it wasn't just me and Martin—it was me, and Martin, and Ediborah Yap, a Filipina nurse, who had been taken with us, until the end. Dennis: Even in the midst of the cruelty / the suffering, there were moments of brilliant sunshine. It came one day in the form of some letters from your children. Gracia: Yes. Four times during our captivity, mail came into camp in the jungle. How did that happen?—I have no idea. Bob: The Filipino government can't get in and rescue you, but they can get the mail through—alright. Gracia: But mail did come through. That was so neat, and we always loved those letters. We would read them over, and over, and over. Dennis: Well, I want you to read Jeff's letter to you guys— .Gracia: Okay. Dennis: —because I want our listeners to hear this letter.  16:00 I want you to explain the conditions in which you were reading it. Gracia: Okay. The night before, we had been in a gun battle that had lasted all day. We had kind of been trapped by the military in a field. Each way we would go, new gunfire would erupt; and then, under the darkness of night, we snuck out of there and walked all night. Every time we were stopping for a rest, I would go to the bathroom. I took my backpack off once to go to the bathroom. When I came back, the line was starting to move already. I just got in line behind Martin, and then I realized I'd left my backpack behind. I turned around to get it—I could see it. There was a new guard with the group, and he pointed his weapon at me. He said, "No, you go." I said, "My backpack—it's right there," and he wouldn't let me get it.  17:00 I had just lost everything—you know, I had a sheet, I had toothpaste, and I had some underwear. I had just lost everything, and I was heartbroken. I said to Martin: "Oh, Martin, how can you ever forgive me? I've lost everything." And Martin said, "I forgive you, and now you need to forgive yourself."  So, that night—just the heaviness of having lost everything—the next morning we got to a Muslim village. They cooked for us and carried off the wounded for us. As we were sitting there, like, a backpack came into camp with stuff for us. Inside were letters from our children, and every single thing that I had lost the day before was replaced. I couldn't believe it—God just did that for me.  Inside were letters from the kids. Jeff—he was 13 at this time.  18:00 His letter reads: "Hey, my cool parents. We are having fun here with Grandma and Grandpa and all our cousins. Aunt Felicia took us to rent movies just now. It was great. I didn't really enjoy the movie we got, but that's okay. I just wanted to say hi and that I'm looking forward to seeing you again. I'm praying for you. Bye, Jeff (the cool one)." [Laughter] But the letter I love is Zachary's—Zach was 10. He said: "Dear Mom and Dad, how are you? I am fine. We went to Walmart® today. It is fun here. At Mega Mall, we bought two computer games. I will write you back. Love, Zach." “I will write you back,”—[Laughter]—we laughed and laughed. We said: "No! Don't write us back. We're going to be out of here—don't write us back." Dennis: I read those, and I thought how surreal that must have been—to be in the jungle and be hearing about shopping at Walmart.  19:00 Gracia: Yes, it gave us a little glimpse into our children's lives. Bob: Video rentals and computer games. Gracia: Yes, I love it. Dennis: Wow! Bob: Did it also, though, not tear your heart out? Gracia: Oh, yes. Yes, but— Bob: —“they're safe”? Gracia: —but we knew they were fine, and we knew life was normal for them. It felt so good. Bob: But you still gotta get out of there. Gracia: I know. Dennis: I mean—a mother's heart, at that point—that's what, as I read your story here, I just, again, pictured Barbara and how her heart would want to be—“be with my kids / to be with my children—to be a mom—to be a family again.” Gracia: Yes; yes. Dennis: And yet, that had been taken away from you. Bob: And to think, again, Dennis, that this wasn't something that happened because Martin and Gracia were on a vacation—but they were in service for Christ.  Dennis: Right. Bob: This was the reason for the ordeal—because they were faithful followers of Jesus Christ and willing to—even when they went to the field for the first time—to say, “The world behind me, the cross before me—  Dennis: Right. Bob: —you know, “no turning back.” 20:00 Dennis: And I think it's at these points we need to re-read what it means to be a disciple. Jesus said, “If they hated Me, they'll hate you” [John 15:18]. If you're a Christ-follower, then you should expect persecution / you should expect trials and difficulties. Yet, it's in these moments that the Scripture comes back to remind us of the truth: "Let not your heart be troubled: believe in God, believe also in me,” [John 14:1]—Jesus said.  Bob: I think about, Gracia—you reading stories about Amy Carmichael as you were growing up. Gracia: Yes. Bob: And I think about the kids, who are growing up today—they're going to be reading this story. Dennis: Yes. Bob: Yes, Mom and Dad ought to be reading it to them. Gracia: How cool! What a good thought! Dennis: Oh, it's happening. I'm going to tell you—it's going to happen because there needs to be another generation of missionaries. And I believe, Gracia—someday, there will be a young lady who will tell of reading your story— 21:00 Gracia: Oh. Dennis: —and having had God touch her life profoundly to give her the courage and the faith to step out. In fact, I don't believe there will be one lady—I believe there will be many men and women who have drunk deeply from your life, and Martin's, and your courage and your faith. That's really what we wanted to do, here today, on FamilyLife Today—is to challenge families to raise the next generation of missionaries. We have a shortage of missionaries around the world, and we have the greatest news that's ever been proclaimed. If there has ever been a time when it needs to be proclaimed, it's today.  Bob: Yes. Dennis: And I think we just need to be giving our children a vision and a heart for the Great Commission. [Studio] Bob: Yes, and this is a book that can be a tool to help do that. In fact, this is a book that families may want to read together, a chapter at a time, at the dinner table or on vacation this summer. The book is called In the Presence of My Enemies.  22:00 In the ten years since all of this happened, Gracia has had the opportunity to do a revised and updated version of the book that includes information about a trip back to the Philippines—a secret trip that's all in the new version of the book In the Presence of My Enemies. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com if you'd like to request a copy. Click the link in the upper left-hand corner of our website that says, “GO DEEPER.” You'll see a copy of Gracia Burnham's book, In the Presence of My Enemies. Again, the website is: FamilyLifeToday.com. If you would prefer to order the book by phone, our toll-free number is 1-800-FL-TODAY—1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then, the word, “TODAY.” That's 1-800-358-6329. You know, I want to add a quick word here, where I thank the folks who made today's program possible—those of you who are supporters of the ministry of FamilyLife Today—whether it's as Legacy Partners, who give each month, or as folks who, from time to time, will make a donation in support of the work we're doing, here at FamilyLife.  23:00 We're grateful anytime you choose to invest in this ministry. Our goal is to provide practical biblical help for your marriage and your family every day—on this program; on our website; through the resources that we're creating, here at FamilyLife; through the events we host. We're joined in that mission by those of you who support this ministry and help cover the cost of, well, for example, producing and syndicating this daily radio program and keeping it on the air in your community.  If you'd like to make a donation today in support of FamilyLife Today, you can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper right-hand corner of the screen that says, “I CARE.” Make an online donation. Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make your donation by phone. Or you can mail your donation to us at FamilyLife Today at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. Our zip code is 72223. 24:00 Now, tomorrow, we're going to hear about the eventual rescue attempt that was made. After 12 months of captivity, there was an attack on the rebels in an attempt to free the hostages. We'll hear that story from the perspective of one of those hostages, Gracia Burnham, on tomorrow's program. I hope you can join us for that. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.  We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?   Copyright © 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com    

Captured For Ransom in the Philippines - Part 1Captured For Ransom in the Philippines - Part 2Captured For Ransom in the Philippines - Part 3FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Rescued! Guest:                    Gracia Burnham           From the series:   In the Presence of My Enemies (Day 3 of 3)  Bob: Back in 2002, there was a story that made international news—the story of missionaries, Martin and Gracia Burnham, who had been taken hostage by Islamic terrorists in the Philippines. They were being held primarily for money—the terrorists wanted a ransom. Others, who had been taken captive with them, had ultimately been freed because that ransom had been paid. Here is Gracia Burnham. Gracia: My family arranged a ransom. Some of the money came into camp, and there was so much excitement. The leaders of the group called us over, and Martin and I sat down beside them. They said, "There's a ransom been paid for you, but we've decided that it's not enough."  They said, "We're going to ask for more." I begged them not to do that—I told them: "This is not going to end well. Please don't do this." 1:00 Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, July 3rd. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. Gracia Burnham had no idea how prophetic her words to her captors were. We'll hear today about the concluding days of her captivity. Stay tuned. And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us on the Friday edition. Back in 2002/2003, many of us were praying for a husband and wife who had been captured by Islamic militants. They were being held for ransom somewhere in the Philippines. We had heard about this capture—we were praying for Martin and Gracia Burnham.  And then the news came that there had been a rescue attempt.   2:00 I remember it was in USA Today—it made national news—as U.S. forces, together with Philippine forces, attempted to rescue the hostages being held by these Islamic militants. It was not long after that rescue attempt that we had the opportunity to sit down with Gracia Burnham, who had shared the story of her captivity and the rescue in the book she'd written called In the Presence of My Enemies. That conversation is just as compelling, today, as it was back when it just happened, more than a decade ago. This week, we have been listening back to our interview as Gracia Burnham shared her story of the capture and the rescue attempt that happened back in 2003. [Previously Recorded Interview] Dennis: Gracia, welcome back to FamilyLife Today. Gracia: Thank you very much.  Dennis: She has written a book called In the Presence of My Enemies. Gracia, I remember that news report Bob's talking about.  3:00 In fact, I can still remember where I was standing in my kitchen, looking at you on TV, hearing you plead for someone to pay the ransom for you to get out. I remember weeping with you—I thought, "Here is a sister in Christ, and a brother." You know, we had no idea the conditions you were living under, obviously. Bob: You had been taken captive by a terrorist group in the Philippines—a group with ties to al-Qaeda. They had captured you, along with 17 other people for the purpose of funding their operation. This is kind of their annual fundraising drive—is to take hostages and get the payoff. In your case, there wasn't going to be a payoff. Tell us about the videotape that Dennis saw. What were the conditions that led to that being shown on television? 4:00 Gracia: Oh my. Well, one morning, out of the clear blue, we were in a camp. It must not have been too far from civilization because there had been people come in and out of camp—just civilians—bringing notes and stuff like that. They came to us one morning and said: "There is a television reporter here to interview you. This is your chance to make a plea.” Then Abu Sabaya—one of the head guys—turned to me and said, "Gracia, if you could cry or something—that would help."  I looked at him and I said, "Sabaya, how many days of this captivity have you not seen me crying?"  [Laughter] And he said, "Oh, yes, that's going to be no problem for you." Bob: You'd been captive now for six, seven, eight months? Gracia: Yes, seven months, I think. Bob: All the other hostages, with the exception of one other woman— Gracia: —they were gone. 5:00 Bob:   So it was you, and Martin, and this other woman. The funding sources had dried up. This reporter was there to try to help them finish up their fund drive, basically. Gracia: Yes, and we were out of money. A lot of the other leaders had gotten tired of the whole thing and gone home—and taken the money with them—so, we were on our own. We were depending on supporters of the Abu Sayyaf in different villages to feed us. We were going from farm to farm, eating unripe fruit—just whatever we could find.  Bob:   It's hard to imagine a scenario where a television reporter can come in and videotape something; and yet the Filipino government, which had been trying to affect a rescue, couldn't come in and rescue you guys.  Gracia: That is hard to understand, except when you've been in the jungle. You can be several hundred feet from something and not see it for the foliage and everything. I remember—one day, we could hear the military over on the next ridge; but there was no way they could see us or we could see them.  6:00 It's just dense jungle—so it's not that difficult—maybe if their intelligence had been a bit better, they could have found us—but just by sight, trying to find us the way they were finding us, it was going to be a chance thing. Dennis: You mentioned earlier that in order to feed the number of captives, along with your captors, it took a lot of food. They actually killed civilians to be able to provide food for you. Gracia: Yes. There was one day they had us rest in this—kind of a logging area. A group of guys went off. As the day wore on and we sat there, I started to wonder. Then I heard gunfire not very far away. This group came back, and all of them were carrying food—you know, sacks of rice, and treats, and stuff.  7:00 As we got out of there, we started to hear the story—they had waited by the road until a jeepney came along that had just been to the marketplace. They were going to get the food from the jeepney, but someone had a gun on the jeepney and had pointed the gun. They didn't use rifles to shoot that guy—they used machine guns—and just mowed everybody down. It was a massacre. Dennis: It killed like eight civilians. Gracia: Yes. It ended up that some of those civilians—they were Muslims, and some of them were relatives of these guys who had killed them—but you know, they just kind of shrugged their shoulders and said, “That was their destiny.”  8:00 That was always their answer if they killed someone else—“It was their destiny,”— but if anyone ever killed a Muslim, that was an atrocity. I never quite understood how— Bob: Yes, how one works one way— Gracia: Yes, one's an atrocity and one's a destiny. Bob: What were you and Martin thinking, at this point, would be the end game?  I mean—here it's been weeks now—did you figure: “These guys are going to get tired and go home, and we're going to just be released”?  What did you think? Gracia: You know, by then, we didn't know what to think—it had gone on for so long. We just kept asking the Lord to deliver us. It seemed like God would answer every prayer but for us to go home. You know, there would be days we would say, "God, could You just do something really special for us to show us that You still love us?"  Something freaky would happen—like a Coke would come into camp. The other guys wouldn't take it—they'd give it to us—you know, just a gift from God. That happened so many times.  9:00 One day, I told Martin, "Okay, I'm going to start praying for a hamburger because that means, if I get a hamburger, I'm outta here."  And Martin would look at me, with a twinkle in his eye, and say, "Have you prayed for your hamburger today?" You know, right about Easter time, a ransom was paid for us. My family arranged a ransom, and some of the money came into camp. There was so much excitement, and the leaders of the group called us over. Martin and I sat down beside them; and they said, "There is a ransom been paid for you, but we've decided that it's not enough." I begged them not to do that. They said, "We're going to ask for more."  I told them: "This is not going to end well. Please don't do this."  But they hardened their hearts—and they were greedy and asked for more money—but there was money then.  10:00 They hired a fishing vessel to get us off the island we'd been on—Basilan, which by this time, was overrun with soldiers. We were running all the time. They took us to another island. For less than 24 hours, we were in a little fishing village near a city. Someone went into the city to their version of McDonald's®—Jollibee® they called it—and brought Martin and me a hamburger, French fries, and a Coke. It's like God took a baseball bat and hit me over the head and said: "Can't I provide a hamburger for you in the jungle?  Couldn't I get you out of here if I wanted to get you out of here?" 11:00 I think it's then that Martin and I started thinking neither of us was going to get out of the jungle. Our prayers started to change. Our prayer—of course, we always asked God to get us out of there—but our prayers were more focused on, "Lord, would You please teach us what You have to teach us, right now, and help us to be good learners so You can get some glory?" He started to do it—I know it was Him because I had tried and couldn't bring that up, but the Lord put that in me.  Dennis: You didn't have a Bible. Gracia: No. Dennis: There was no access to the Scripture. Gracia: There was nothing—it was what we had in our hearts—and we realized how little we knew. Dennis: All of us have experienced, Gracia, the—well, a prayer that goes unanswered; or a prayer where God says, "No"; or he says, "Wait."  As I was reading your book, I kept thinking, "What must she have been thinking as this ordeal continued on, and on, and on?"   12:00 And you prayed—you prayed on the boat, you prayed on the island, you prayed on the second island / you were being chased. What keeps a person from losing hope in those circumstances? Gracia: I don't know—I remember one of my hardest days—we had prayed with the young girls that weren't married because, one by one, the leaders of the Abu Sayyaf—they would "sabaya" them—that's the word they used. Sabaya means you become their booty of war. One guy would pick one girl, and she would have to live with him—you know, share his hammock and sleep with him. We would pray with these girls, and we would beg God to not let that happen. One by one, that happened. I thought, "How can this be God's plan for these girls?" And you know what?  I guess I don't have any answers.  13:00 I know some things from my experience [emotion in voice]—I know that God will not test you above what you are able. He will, with the testing, make a way to escape, that you can bear it [1 Cor. 10:13]. I chose to believe that God was not going to bring anything our way that we could not bear. The other thing I decided was true is that God is good. I may not feel, right now—like God is good—but He is [Ps. 100:5]. My feelings don't matter. I don't have a lot of answers about unanswered prayer. You know, I haven't become a real theological person through this; but I have become a trusting person—and I'm clinging to what's true. 14:00 Dennis: But the thing I don't want our listeners to miss—you did not lose hope. You may have had a lot of prayers that seemingly went unanswered, or the door was slammed shut, but you never stopped praying. Gracia: No, that's all we had to cling to—was our faith in God—we had nothing else. When you have nothing, you have nothing—but when you have the Lord, you have everything, on the other hand—He was our everything. Bob: Take us to the final night. Gracia: Yes; we had gone nine days without food. I didn't know you could go nine days without food—I thought you go three days, and then you drop dead—but you don't. We had salt, and we had water. The guys knew which leaves we could— Bob: You had to weigh 80 pounds? Gracia: Yes, I definitely didn't have much fat on my body—I'll tell you that. We were skin and bones.  15:00 We were looking for the elusive village—the village where there was—the second ransom was there. They were going to turn us over to civilians, and this was all going to be over; but we were actually kind of lost. Our guide didn't exactly know where we were. We came to some logging roads—in that area of the Philippines, they plow out these roads so these big vehicles can drag logs out of the mountains.  One night, we were going to cross a logging road to get to this village that we thought was over there. I said to my guard: “Could you go tell them not to cross this road? I don't have a good feeling about this. Someone's going to see our tracks and follow us.” Of course, they didn't pay any attention to me. As the sun went down, and no one could see us, we crossed the road—hiked all night.  16:00 There were three kinds of rules with this war: one was we never fought in the rain. We never fought after dark; and they never pursued us—we would have our gun battle—then we would go our way, and they would go theirs.  Well, it clouded up to rain that day. We put our hammocks up, and we put our little plastic shelters over the hammocks to keep the rain off. We laid down for a rest. We didn't know that that morning they'd seen our footprints and had been following us all day. The soldiers came over the hill and opened fire on our camp.  There was no selective gunfire—there never had been before. This was gun battle number 17. I knew what to do right away—I dropped—but even before I got to the ground, I'd been shot in the leg. There was enough rain already that I kind of just slid down the hill and came to rest beside Martin.  17:00 I looked over at him, and he was bleeding from his chest. I knew from experience that leg wounds heal, but chest wounds don't. Dennis: You didn't have any words with him, then? Gracia: No, I didn't say anything to him. Bob:   The two of you had had a conversation—what?—the night before? —as you'd gone to sleep? Gracia: No, just minutes before. When we were sitting down in our hammock to have our rest, Martin had said to me: "Gracia, I don't know why this has happened to us; but Psalm 100 has been just running through my head all day, especially the verse that says, 'Serve the Lord with gladness.'"  He said, "This may not seem like serving the Lord, but let's just choose to serve Him with gladness."  Those are the last words he ever said.  18:00 Well, we prayed together and lay down.  Well, when I didn't hear the languages of the Abu Sayyaf coming from the river, I started moving my hands just very slowly so someone would know I was alive. I didn't want them to be startled and shoot me. Some soldiers saw me right away and came down the hill and started dragging me up to the ridge. As they drug me up the hill, I looked back at Martin. He was white, and that's when I knew he was dead; but, you know, the Lord gave me real grace right then [emotion in voice]. We had been praying that we would get out of there. To be quite honest, we didn't care how anymore—we had just had it.  19:00 Right in that moment, I thought: "This is God's answer. Martin is with Him, and they're going to take care of me."  I just had a real peace. You know what?  That peace has never left me. I have a real peace in my heart that this is God's plan—and it is not how I would have planned it. I would never have had this hostage-thing happen in the first place. I certainly wouldn't have had it go on for a year, and I certainly wouldn't have chosen Martin to die; but you know what?  God is God. I'm not the one that does the choosing—He is the One that does the choosing. I trust Him, and I trust that He is good. Dennis: Gracia, you had one last assignment, however, that would be difficult. That was the assignment of sharing with your children in the Embassy. 20:00 Gracia: Yes, they fixed up my leg and flew me to Manila. I was in the Embassy, and I wanted my children to hear from me what had happened to their dad. I didn't want them to turn on the TV and see the media version. I called the kids, and they had a speakerphone. I just told them the story I had told you. I wondered how they would take that. You know, I could hear the sniffling on the other end, and I could tell they were crying; but right away, I just sensed that God took care of my kids too.  After I was done talking about Martin, they started asking me questions: "Well, how are you?"  I told them I was fine, and everybody was being so kind to me.   21:00 And then my daughter said: "Mom, are you going to have a nervous breakdown?  Because everybody here thinks you are."  I said: "Oh, honey, I had my nervous breakdowns in the jungle. I am through with those, and things are going to be fine now."  And then she said, "Are you going to make us move from here?" You know, it's like the kids were already thinking through how life was going to be, and we had a good conversation. We have had a lot of good conversations, and it's like the Lord is just upholding my children. You know, I think God brought me home for my kids. I don't think God brought me home to do a book tour and to have some great message. I think God brought me home to raise some godly children, and that's my goal. If—I don't care what my children do—if they are godly, and they are following the Lord, then oh my—what more could you ask? 22:00 Dennis: That's right, and we can say we have not lived in vain nor fought in vain. Gracia: Yes, isn't that great? Dennis: Well, Gracia, I want to thank you for being on FamilyLife Today. I want to thank you for sharing your life, not only in this book, but with us over the past couple of days. I have the feeling you have helped some moms and dads, some husbands and wives, and single people. I think they've maybe drunk from a spiritual fire hydrant, Bob. [Laughter] Bob: I'm just thinking: “Problems? I've got no problems!” Dennis: “I haven't got any problems!” I have one last question for you, though, before we let you go.  [Studio] Bob: Let me interrupt you long enough to let our listeners know how they can get a copy of Gracia's book before you ask your last question. The book that Gracia has written is called In The Presence of My Enemies. This was a New York Times best-seller when it came out. We have the book in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center. You can order from us when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to request the book.  23:00 Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. When you get there, click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the screen that says, “GO DEEPER.” You'll see Gracia's book there. Or call 1-800-358-6329—that's 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then, the word, “TODAY.”  Dennis? [Previously Recorded Interview] Dennis: Well, I'm grateful you've shared with our listeners how you can get a copy of this book. I do hope they will read In the Presence of My Enemies to their children. I think we need to raise a generation of young people who have God's heart for the world.  I promised you, Gracia, I had one last question for you: “Will you go back?” Gracia: Well, I would love to go back, and the kids would love to go back; but we're New Tribes Mission missionaries. I was a good pilot's wife, and there is no pilot anymore. I think my ministry—I would want to be in a tribe somewhere, which would mean learning a new language / learning a new culture. So, I would love to go back. 24:00 If God really laid it on our hearts, we would be back there in a minute—the children were born there. When they had to pack their bag that day and get out of the Philippines, they were ripped from their home; and they would love to go back. Dennis: Well, Gracia Burnham, you may have cried your way through the jungle, as you wrote about in your book, and felt like you had your nervous breakdown in the jungle, but you are exactly who I thought you would be. As I told Bob—I said, "I believe she is one gritty warrior for Christ."  You are a warrior for Christ, and I want to thank you for being on FamilyLife Today. Gracia: Thank you. It's been my pleasure. FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.  We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?   Copyright © 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com