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In this episode, the focus is on clergy abuse—a topic made even more pressing by recent headlines. The featured guest, Sandy Phillips Kirkham, shares her harrowing ordeal of being abused by a charismatic youth pastor starting at the age of 16. Sandy discusses the grooming process, the five years of abuse, and how she was ultimately expelled from her church while her abuser was merely relocated. She delves into the long-lasting impact of the abuse on her life and her spiritual journey, how she concealed her trauma for 27 years, and how she ultimately confronted her abuser. Sandy also provides valuable insights and actionable advice for preventing abuse and supporting victims within church communities. Her story is also detailed in her book, ‘Let Me Prey on You,' which offers a detailed account of her journey from victim to advocate. 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:47 Welcome to the Podcast 01:32 Introducing Today's Topic: Clergy Abuse 02:17 Sandy Phillips Kirkham's Early Life and Church Involvement 06:22 Meeting the Abuser: The Charismatic Youth Pastor 08:43 Red Flags and Grooming Tactics 13:51 The First Inappropriate Act 16:37 The Abuse Escalates 21:06 The Aftermath and Church's Response 28:15 Life After Abuse: Marriage and Keeping Secrets 32:09 Protecting Future Generations 35:17 The Importance of Sex Education in the Church 36:32 Techniques for Discussing Sex with Children 37:22 Personal Experiences with Sex Education 38:20 Triggering Memories and Emotional Breakdown 40:13 The Journey of Healing Begins 41:31 Understanding Clergy Abuse and Self-Forgiveness 43:52 Confronting the Abuser 47:07 Challenges in Seeking Justice 54:47 Preventing Abuse in the Church 01:00:31 Supporting Victims of Clergy Abuse 01:05:07 Final Thoughts and Resources Sandy Kirkham and her husband Bill enjoy life with their two grown children, two beautiful granddaughters, and two fairly well-behaved dogs. Sandy continues to use her voice to help victims of clergy abuse. She currently serves on the board of Council Against Child Abuse. Sandy has spoken before the Ohio Senate, a Maryland court, and appeared on a local television show in Boston. Her story, “Stolen Innocence,” was told in a documentary produced by The Hope of Survivors. Sandy works with survivors conducting victim support conferences. She has participated in The Voice of the Faithful (VOTF) panels moderated by SNAP (Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests), sharing her perspective from the non-Catholic point of view. Sandy has been a presenter/speaker at major events on clergy abuse including the Hope & Healing Conference. Sandy has earned a certificate of completion from the Faith Trust Institute entitled, “A Sacred Trust: Boundary Issues for Clergy and Spiritual Teachers.” https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/ https://www.facebook.com/KirkhamAuthor/  sandykirkhamauthor@gmail.com  Purchase her book “Let Me Prey Upon You” on amazon: https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/shop/let-me-prey-upon-you/   Link Tree   Website: https://dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/   Sandy Phillips Kirkham [00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels. They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hello. Welcome everyone. Welcome to my regular listeners, as well as some new listeners that have joined us today. I have a great guest for you today. We're going to be talking about clergy abuse today. Religious leader, abuse. Pastor, youth leader. You've seen this in the news recently with all these preachers being arrested or charged with sexual misconduct or rape or [00:02:00] pedophilia. I'm sure you've seen the news. Well, today we're going to hear a story about a woman who's been victimized in that way and she's fighting back. So let me read her bio for you. A church is where an insecure 16-year-old girl should feel welcome, happy, and most importantly, safe tragically. For some, the church can become a place of great harm. Sandy Phillips Kirkham details her account of how charismatic youth minister preyed upon her, a betrayal which left her broken with a shattered faith and the ultimate shame of being blamed enforced from the church she loved. Despite a successful and happy life, is a wife, mother, and friend. Sandy successfully concealed her abuse for [00:03:00] 27 years until a trigger forced her to face the truth. Sandy's story will take you on her journey of healing. Her strength and courage will inspire you. Let me pray upon you her book details. Sandy's journey from innocent 16-year-old, a victim to a survivor, and advocate. We please welcome Sandy Phillips. Kirk, welcome Sandy to the show. Thanks so much for coming on. Well, thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. Wow. So I've been listening to you on the Preacher Boys podcast and thought you had a really great story, and so I wanted to come and bring you on so my listeners can hear your story as well. Mm-hmm. So tell us a little bit about your home and your church environment growing up. Let's [00:04:00] start from the beginning here. Okay. I'm the oldest of five. My parents were divorced when I was about seven, which that was really the impact of my life, of just how it altered everything about that time in my life. Then my mother remarried and we moved in with my stepfather shortly after my father remarried, and so I was dealing with these blended families and it was just very confusing for me at the time, my parents and stepfather did not attend church. So I, I wasn't a part of a church until I was about eight, and that's when my best friend who lived up the street invited me to go with their family, and I went with them and I went every Sunday after that, I absolutely fell in love with church. It was a place that I felt safe. I think it provided for me a place away from home that I felt comfortable and I got attention there. I was very active even as a small child. I went to vacation Bible school, church camp, love Sunday School. I sang in a junior choir. Really, it was a just a great place for me to [00:05:00] be. When I was 13, I was baptized and then my faith really deepened and my involvement in the church became even more so, started teaching Sunday school and teaching vacation Bible school. I started serving on committees with adults and doing more of the activities that would, , just be more in depth than just typical youth group activities. So, it's just no exaggeration to say that if the doors of the church were open, I was there and I loved it. I loved serving God. I felt that was the place for me, and everything about it was brought me joy and peace in the church. Wow. You really, were very sincere in your faith. It was not a fake one. I hear a lot of stories of. Being brought up in the church and being made to go to church and, you just go through the motions kind of thing. But it sounds like it was the opposite for you. It was that you really believed this with all your heart. Was that a fundamental Baptist church you were going [00:06:00] to or what? It was a church, Christ Christian Church, which is similar to the Baptist. It's an independent church. Yeah, that's the church. That was so something happened while you were serving the Lord and loving God. You met your abuser? Yes. Shortly after I turned 16, our church hired a new youth pastor, and from the moment he arrived, he was totally different than anyone we'd ever seen before. He was very charismatic, very dynamic. His sermons were really like nothing we'd ever heard before, and people were just drawn to him. He had a personality that people found themselves wanting to be around him. They wanted to please him. So he was very good at asking people to do things and they didn't hesitate. It, it was just a different kind of atmosphere. When he came to the church, the youth group exploded in numbers. We went from like 25 to almost 200 in a very short time. Even the [00:07:00] adult church was growing because people just came to hear him preach because he was so good at what he did. He was 30, married with two children, but he really acted more like our age group. He dressed like we did. He. Went to our football games at school, he knew our music. So he just, he really, he was tuned into us and in return we found ourselves, all of us being willing to please him and wanna do anything we could to make the youth group and the church better. So when people think of a profile of a child abuser, they usually think, oh, some dirty old man, that his roaming fingers or what have you, but this youth pastor sounded like, okay, he was really good looking and hip and really loved the young people. Mm-hmm. Is that typical of. Well, it's, it's typical in the sense that it's not the, dirty old man hiding in the bushes. Most abusers [00:08:00] are people we know. They're people that we like. They're usually people that, connect with people very well, and that's what makes them so dangerous because they're not obvious with what they do, and they're very good at that. They pretend to be one of us. They pretend to care, but in reality, their goal is to find a way to take advantage of the most vulnerable in, in the group. And so, predators are usually drawn to places where they will find vulnerable people. The gymnastics team is an example of that. The Boy Scouts, anywhere where you can, and certainly the church because we are welcoming into people who are in need. Oftentimes. Then there are many people in the church who are vulnerable to these types of men, and sometimes women. Were there any red flags? That you should have seen or noticed when you were around this youth pastor? Well, he came with so many different ideas and different ways of doing things. And one of the things that he was doing now, this was in the [00:09:00] seventies, so cultures were changing and it was free love and kind of thing. But he came into our church and he expected everyone to hug each other. So we were always hugging each other. And he also expected us to say how much we loved each other and that we love you and not just that I love you in Christ. He would simply walk up, give you a hug and say, I love you. Now you know, that may seem innocent, but that's a little odd for that pastor to be saying those kinds of things. And it also blurs the lines because when you say to someone, I love you, that can be confusing to. Young teenagers and even to vulnerable adults. So, but he did that with everybody. It wasn't like he picked someone else special, but, so the hugging in the contact was kind of a red flag in the beginning. But for me personally, I babysat for his family. His wife worked evenings. Mm-hmm. So one night after he came home, he asked me to go to his basement and listen to a song by Neil Diamond. [00:10:00] Well, it felt a little weird 'cause I'd never. I've been around a pastor that wanted to talk to me about anything but church in the Bible. But I went to the basement. Yeah. I mean a Neil Diamond song. So I went to the basement. I know, but that's a trigger factor for me sometimes. So anyway, I went to the basement and he put this record on and I sat down on the couch and instead of sitting in a chair or another place, he came on the couch and sat very close to me. And I remember feeling uncomfortable, but I didn't say anything. 'cause I thought, well, he is just sitting next to me. It's no big deal. But that's a red flag that I felt because it felt uncomfortable to me. And then the other times that I would babysit for him. His wife wouldn't come home till late in the evening, so he would come home around seven or eight and after the kids were in bed, instead of taking me home, he wanted me to sit and talk with him all evening. So we'd talk about the Bible or we'd talk about church, and sometimes he'd ask me what I thought of his [00:11:00] sermon, which at age 16, I'm flattered that this man has any idea that I would have some opinion about this great sermon that he just gave. So I didn't see anything wrong with that because he's my pastor. But had that occurred with my 30-year-old neighbor down the street, every time I went to babysit, I know I would've come home to my mother and said, okay, this is weird. Mm-hmm. Every time I babysit, this man wants to sit and talk to me all evening. I mean, what interest would I have as a teenager wanting to talk to this 30-year-old married man? But because my pastor was who he was and he tapped into our common connection of the church and God, and again, many times he would give me books to read 'cause he wanted me to get better in my deep, in my spirituality. So I didn't see anything wrong with it because of who he was. And so I just accepted that behavior, which is another tool and technique. They look for ways to get into you. Mm-hmm. [00:12:00] That don't seem obvious. And that was, so those were two red flags for me. Now as far as the congregation goes, I was in his office a lot by myself, but so were other kids, because he would actually call us into his office and say, I want you to come in and tell me what's going on in your life. Talk to me about your problems. Instead of us going to him, he would encourage us to come into his office. So while that probably wasn't a good thing, no one saw it as a bad thing. It seemed normal, but he called me into his office a lot more than the other kids. And later on there were people who did say to me, there were times when I wondered why he said something to you like that, or I noticed something one time. And so I think people notice some things, but no one thought enough of it to say, okay, there's something going on that doesn't seem right. So those were the red flags that I think in the beginning were very subtle. But they were hard to see, [00:13:00] and this is really important to distinguish these things because I was groomed by a guidance counselor in seventh grade. Mm-hmm. But he was one of those dirty old men that, he was doing creepy stuff. Yeah. But I never would have seen myself. A pastor and he's talking about spiritual things and he's talking about God and mm-hmm. He's not talking about sex. He's not watching, you're not watching dirty movies together. No, he's not, buying you sexy lingerie. It's, Hey, he's doing spiritual things. Mm-hmm. It's a setup. It's that grooming process you're talking about. It's pulling someone in to gain their trust, in a very di diabolical way, because he's using the church to do that. That's really scary. That scares mm-hmm. Scares me to death. What were the first times that he did something really inappropriate that you were just like, whoa? Well, the very [00:14:00] first time, was after a youth group meeting that was held in my home. I was the song leader. He put me in a leadership position, and it was very important to him that the evening always go well and that we were to make people feel welcome. And so at the end of the evening, I was nervous because I wanted to make sure that he thought everything went well. And he came up to me in my hallway and began telling me how great the evening was and how proud he was of me. And I was on Cloud nine. I was flattered that he felt that way. I felt good that the evening went so well. And then he just slowly bent down and he kissed me. And it wasn't, it was a kiss, but it seemed somewhat innocent to some extent. And I, I remember thinking, I think he just kissed me. Then my next thought was, well, he's my pastor and I don't think he would be doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And it was just a quick kiss. And he's always hugging people. And so maybe this is just his way of showing his appreciation for the evening. It was really [00:15:00] the only way in my 16-year-old mind that I could justify it because I couldn't think about this man doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And this was a person that everyone loved and thought so highly of, so how could I think he was doing something he shouldn't be doing? So I just let it go. I didn't think anything more about it. I mean, did you have any sex ed or anything? Did you know the birds and bees? Nine. Well, yeah, I'm 16. I did. Yeah, I did. But I wasn't, I hadn't dated much. I wasn't allowed to date till I was 16, so I hadn't had any dating experience. I had one kiss before this with a boy at camp. So I wasn't. Worldly or knowledgeable about all those things. But, and again, it was such a quick innocent type kiss. He didn't grab me, he didn't push me against the wall. I just, and again, I think for me it was okay if he's, if this is more than just a kiss, then what do I do with it? So therefore I'm just gonna say it's [00:16:00] nothing because I don't know what else to do. Um, wow. I let it go. I let it go. But as I babysat for him, he, sometimes when I would leave, he would kiss me and sometimes he wouldn't. So, I didn't see it as a con, kind of a continual thing that he was always wanting to kiss me. He always hugged me. But the kissing became more intense as it went along. So it, it would be another year, before he would have sex with me. And so that grooming process and kind of pushing the boundaries each time he was with me, finally ended with him having sex with me. Oh, wow. Now, some of us listening are like an adult having sex with a child or 16-year-old. Can you unpack that a little bit more, the process of how he got to that point? I mean, that the first time you had intercourse, I mean, did he, you know, go to a hotel with you and you had a candlelight dinner, or was it in the backseat of the car?[00:17:00] Was it an accident? It wasn't an accident. He was very deliberate and I had every intentions of having sex with me that night. I babysat, I was babysitting, I put the kids to bed, I walked down the steps. I assumed that we would go into the living room. Or the family room, sit on the couch and talk about the things we always talked about. But instead, he stopped me at the bottom of the stairs and he took me into the living room, and immediately put me on the floor and began undressing me. Um, and wow, I froze. I, I literally froze and I kept thinking to myself, he's going to stop. He's going to stop. And that the entire time he's whispering into my ear how much he loves me, that he would never hurt me, and that he can, I can trust him. And then he kept asking me, do you love me? Do you love me? And I, of course, I'm answering yes, because well, yes I do, because that's what I've told him for the past year. I, I, I just, I was so confused and what my real reaction was, I froze. Mm-hmm. Um, he, he sort of pushed my head under the [00:18:00] stereo. And so when he is starting to get farther than I thought he would ever go. I blocked, I just blocked it out and I started reading the serial numbers underneath the stereo. Oh my goodness. Just to be thinking of anything else. Um, at one point he then just picked me up and took me upstairs. He literally put me on the bed, penetrated me, and that was it. And I was horrified. I was absolutely horrified. I, I wanted to cry. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to do. Um, he left the room, told me to get dressed, and he would take me home. And I remember sitting on the bed and I put the bedspread around me because I was so embarrassed that I didn't have my clothes on. Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. Um, and then I just remember thinking I just had sex. I'm no longer a virgin. I just had sex with this man and. He took me home. Now, in the [00:19:00] book, of course, I go into a little bit more detail, but Right, he took me home and just before I got outta the car, he said to me, now, you know, this is something between the two of us, you can't tell anyone. And of course I'm thinking, who would I tell? I, I don't want anybody to know. I just did this. So, that was the first time. And then I think I, at that point I kept thinking, you know, I've had sex with him. So now I'm committed to him again. I'm at this point, I'm 17 years old. I'm still like, what do I do with this? I don't, I don't know what to do with this. Um, and he was convincing me that he loved me. He was convincing me that he needed me in his ministry and that God, this was God's will in our lives. He threw that at me. Eventually he would say to me that we were married in God's eyes. I mean, twisting the scripture and using God as a reason that we should be together. And so. I started to accept that. There were a couple times I went to him and told him that I couldn't do this anymore. I felt [00:20:00] guilty. He would respond in one of two ways. One, he would say to me how much he needed me, how much he loved me, and that he couldn't live without me. So that was the guilt part of it. Or he would respond and by saying to me, you know, you're no longer a virgin. No one else is gonna want you. I'm the only one that knows how to love you, and you are committed to me, and this is gonna be the way it is. And I saw no way out. I didn't see a way out. And so the relationship continued for five years. Wow. Five years. It went on for five years. That is a long time. And it, during that time, he became more aggressive physically. Uh, he hit me. He became sexually more deviant. It just progressed. It got worse and worse. And to a point that I finally, I was, my self-esteem was so low. I hated myself for what I'd been doing. So I finally just accepted that this was my life. I knew [00:21:00] I'd never get married. I knew I'd never have children, and this wouldn't be over until he said it was over. This went on for five years and nobody in the church noticed it. Your parents didn't notice it. You know, people say, well, where were your parents? Well, first of all, my parents were thrilled. I was in church. I mean, this was a time in the seventies when drugs were. Prevalent girls were, having free sex. So for them, what safer place could there be than to be in church? So, and they saw his intention toward me and his involvement with me as a good thing. I mean, he would take me on hospital visits with him. I mean, they saw this as being positive. And they knew how much I loved being there and that it was a place that I liked to go. So they didn't see it. And many in the church didn't see it began because who suspects the pastor of such behavior. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And especially in the seventies when this wasn't an open topic like it is now, you wouldn't have dared thought anything like that. And so [00:22:00] it's not uncommon for people in the church, to miss the signs and to ignore what they really do see, because they just can't believe that it would be something that would be happening in their church because then they'd have to do something about it. Yes, exactly. When did it all come crumbling down? It does crumble. Eventually it does. Two elders became suspicious and followed him one night and found us together in a hotel room. And then from then on, the next month and a half was an absolute nightmare for me. Hmm. It was initially hoped that they could keep what he had done, quiet and keep it from the congregation. Now, I have to say one thing before I forget. This wasn't his first incident of sexual misconduct. Oh. Prior to and just after he was awri, he arrived at our church. A young woman from his first church came forward and accused him of sexual misconduct. When he was [00:23:00] confronted by my elders, he didn't deny it. He said it was true. He asked for forgiveness, that it would never happen again. It was a mistake. So within six months. That's when he was kissing me in my hallway. So this, so these elders were aware that this was the second time that there had been an incident with this man of sexual abuse and misconduct. But in spite of that, they tried to keep it quiet in hopes of moving him to another church. And so I was told during that time where I was to sit, how I was to respond to questions. I wasn't to talk to anyone. I wasn't to tell anyone about what had happened, including my parents. And this was all in an effort to keep it quiet. Well, that effort failed. And so it was determined that he should address the congregation. He did it in a very vague way, just simply said that he'd sinned. He'd sinned against God, and he'd sinned against his wife. And that was his confession. That was it. Two days later, he had me meet [00:24:00] him in a hotel room after that confession in front of the congregation. Now. He was moved to the next church. He was given a going away party. There was actually a vote to maybe keep him, but the vote failed and they decided to move him to the next church. About, two weeks, three weeks later, I was called in by the elders, and this is probably the hardest part of my story for me. Mm-hmm. I was called in by the elders and I was told that because of my behavior I was to leave the church. I was devastated. I loved that church. It was the only church I knew, and here I was being told by these two elders that I wasn't fit to worship there any longer. Mm-hmm. He could be forgiven and given a second, third chance. I couldn't be, I was told that to leave the church. I wasn't given any counseling. I wasn't helped in any way. I was simply told to leave and I did. I left. [00:25:00] And that I told people many times, as horrific as the abuse was, having been told to leave, that church had a greater impact on me spiritually than the actual abuse did. I don't think I ever recovered from that. It still haunts me to this day to some extent. That response of the church really devastated me. So that was the crumbling, as you called it? It came crashing down and I would, I left the church. So did that change your perception of God? What was your relationship with God this time? Yes. You were kicked outta the church, but. Well, I felt a disconnect from God. I never blamed God. I never felt like God caused this to happen. I, in fact, I carry the blame and the shame. I felt guilty for what I had done. And so I never blamed God, but because of the relationship being tied in with God and the [00:26:00] prayers that this man would give, and then, you know, he'd give these wonderful sermons about marriage and sanctity of marriage on a Sunday morning after having sex with me the night before. I had difficulty separating all of that, and there were so many trigger factors associated with the church and prayer that God really did. It was hard for me to have any kind of relationship with God. I did. I didn't become an atheist like a lot of victims do, and who become angry at God. I simply just. I just put him on the back burner. I knew he existed, but I didn't have a connection with him any longer. So for 27 years, I, I never prayed. I never opened my Bible. I went to church because when I met my husband, he was a Methodist. And I thought, well, I'll go to the Methodist Church. It's a different denomination. Mm-hmm. I'll just go on. It should be fine. It didn't work that way. I had anxiety attacks in church. I, his [00:27:00] reminders of him were constant, but I forced myself to go. I made sure that I went because I knew when we had children, I wanted them to have that church experience. But every time I walked past the minister's office, I got a knot in my stomach. Oh yeah. It had nothing to do with that minister. But you understand that. I mean, it, but I did that for 27 years. It became my norm. I just knew that when I walked past that office, I was gonna get a knock my stomach, certain hymns. I can tell you what his favorite hymn was, and every time that was played, that's who I thought of. I couldn't pray. It was so, I did have a deep, deep disconnect for 27 years, and I have to tell you, I missed it. I actually mourn that loss of my spiritual life, but I didn't know how to get it back. Because I'm keeping this secret. I'm still carrying guilt and shame. I couldn't forgive myself. I didn't feel worthy to be in church. So with all of that mixed in, I just put myself on autopilot and said, [00:28:00] well, this is the way my life will be and I'll just have to accept it. It just sounds so unfair. Somebody that loves the Lord so much and served in the church and so innocent and being kicked out. Oh, but it sounded like maybe meeting your husband would've been a positive thing for you. How did you guys meet? I actually worked at his office, so I met him there. We dated for about two years, and I just found him to be a kind, loving soul. He was very unassuming. He wasn't arrogant. He didn't, he wasn't a boastful type of person. He didn't like taking credit for things, even though he deserved it sometimes. He was just a good hearted person, and I just, I fell in love with him immediately. I really did. I thought this was a great, great guy. I mean, I will tell you, I have said many times because before I met him, I was on a destructive path. I did not have any self-esteem. [00:29:00] I saw myself just simply as some sex object that, I was only good for that. And so when I met him, he saved my life because he loved me for who I was and showed me that I was worthy. So I've often said to him, you saved my life, and he will respond back with you made mine, and you can't get any better than that. So meeting him was a turning point for me, but I kept a secret from him for 27 years, and I lived in fear that he'd always find out that I'd had this affair with a married man. And I know in my heart that it wouldn't have made a difference to him. But people who've been abused never forget the words, don't ever tell. And I never forgot those words. And I never forgot what the consequences could be if I were to tell someone. Because when my elders found out, they blamed me. And I, I couldn't bear the thought that if I were to tell him. [00:30:00] Somehow he would find fault with me, or I wondered, would he wonder why I didn't feel confident enough to tell him? Would he feel betrayed that I kept a secret? Would he see me differently sexually? All those fears that I had while unfounded were still present in my mind. And so I never could tell him. And I had to do a lot of play acting and pretending, through our married life in the sense that the times I was having trigger factors, I had to hide them. And I know he would've been supportive, but I couldn't see that. Because while trauma affects you at the time of the abuse, it's lifelong. It doesn't leave you. And so I lived with that for 27 years. So did you have. Intimacy issues when you were together? Was that what you're talking about? The triggering? No, I, know a lot of victims do, and that's understandable. I really didn't, because he was so different from my abuser [00:31:00] and I recognized that my abuser was emotionally violent mm-hmm. And physically, he just wasn't loving in any sense of the word. I was simply used for sex. Mm-hmm. And I didn't have that with my husband. And so I could separate that a little bit. But I think the guilt of hiding the secret had an impact on our marriage as far as my able to be intimate with him in an emotional way. I'm really glad to hear that. I, you are not the first person that I've heard that. The victim has hidden a secret from her husband. I passed her and a pastor's wife and her husband did not know. Mm-hmm. Children didn't know, and it was a family member that was the abuser. And I kept telling her, you've got to tell him. Mm-hmm. You know why? It's because, and I was thinking this when I was listening to your, the other shows that you were on. I'm thinking about your children and your grandchildren. If I was abused, [00:32:00] I would be like. How do I keep my children and grandchildren from going through what I just went through, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, that's an interesting thing because most people would assume that my daughter, I would've been all over it and worried sick every time she left the house. Yeah. But I actually had the opposite, reaction because keep in mind, I didn't see myself as an abuse victim. I saw myself as someone who participated, who willingly went into this relationship and stayed in it willingly, which is not the case when you're abused. There's the control, the manipulation, all of those things that play into keeping a victim in a relationship and they see no way out. So for me, I just assumed I got one bad apple in the whole barrel, that this didn't happen to other people and that I had an affair. But my daughter, who I knew, she would never have an affair with a married man, I just knew that. So I. Sent her on [00:33:00] retreats. I sent her to church camp without fear because again, I'm thinking, okay, this just doesn't happen to other people and this is not something I need to be concerned about with her. However, with my granddaughters, it's totally different because now I understand what really occurred and the damage that can occur when you've been abused. And so with my granddaughters, her mom and dad have talked to them, about good touch, bad touch. And I too have talked about to her, but I've been a little bit more probably detailed about it. Mm-hmm. And as she gets older, these men, the techniques change as you get older and they, after they go after teenage girls, so mm-hmm. Hopefully I'll be able to help her understand, what happens when someone's grooming. I want her to understand her personal space, that if you're not comfortable when someone hugs you, it's okay. That's right. Say I, I don't want you to touch me that way. Mm-hmm. Or say if they don't feel comfortable and we put a lot on kids to do that. 'cause here [00:34:00] we're asking a child to say to an adult, no. Mm-hmm. So it's okay to go to your mother or your mom and say, can you tell so and so Uncle Jimmy or whoever it is, I don't wanna be hugged. So we need to make sure our kids understand that their personal space is their space. And if they don't want someone in that space, it's okay to say no. I also think it's important to tell kids that good people can do bad things. Yeah. Because, as we talked about earlier, our abusers are not strangers. They're not mean people. Mm-hmm. They're usually good people. They're usually people who've given us gifts. They're people who help us. They're people who tell us how wonderful we are. So it's hard for children, even adults, to see this individual who. Who on one side is a good individual who does a lot in the church, who's done all these wonderful things. And so we, we have to tell these kids, just because they're a good person doesn't mean they can't do bad things. And so that's kind of the message I hope to get to my granddaughters that I didn't give to my [00:35:00] daughter. And fortunately she didn't have any issues with church or any, anybody abusing her. But I certainly did not, guide her in the right way in that sense because I just, like I said, I just assumed that I was the only one that this would ever have happened to. Well, I think, I hear a lot in the church that they don't teach sex ed because they don't want the kids to go out and have sex. Mm-hmm. And so a lot of these kids are like ignorant as to, what is healthy and what is not proper, yeah. We need to teach 'em that our bodies or are going to respond. They were built that way. God intended us to have feelings. You know, when we are around the opposite sex, that's normal. Mm-hmm. So we need to make sure kids understand. But there are barriers and there are boundaries that need to be taken. But you're absolutely right when we don't talk at it, then we figure it out on their own. And we could, we can all imagine when you're leaving teenagers to [00:36:00] their own devices to figure out things. That's probably not gonna lead in a good spot. No, we have the internet now, which when we, right. When you and I were younger, we didn't have the internet. We didn't have cell phones. No. If you wanted a Playboy magazine, you had to go to that kind of a neighborhood to get something. Yes. You know? Yes. It was a lot more difficult. Yes, absolutely. But too many parents are embarrassed to talk to their children about sex and, you know, everybody listening needs to listen. You need to find a way to talk to them about these things. And one of the techniques that I use with my daughter, just in talking about sex in general, kids don't want to hear their mom and dad talk to 'em about this. So what I did would say, I read a magazine article about this girl who did such and such so that I put it off on something else that's, a non-entity of a person. And I'll say, or Have you ever heard of this? And of course I know she's got a little embarrassed, but I, it opened the dialogue without me coming [00:37:00] out and saying, have you heard of oral sex? Instead, I would talk to her and say, I heard this about this. This is what kids are doing, blah, blah, blah. So you kind of have to find techniques and ways to sneak around it sometimes, but you absolutely need to talk to, because they know it's out there and they're going to experiment. That's just part of being a teenager. Yeah, my parents chickened out. They just gave me a book to read. Same, probably the same book. I got, I forget what it was called. Where did I come from? Or something. It was a cartoon book. Mm-hmm. And I'm grateful for that. And, they just, after I finished the book, do you have any questions? Yeah, yeah. I had a lot of, older people that were friends and I would actually go to my older. Senior citizen friends and ask them questions rather than ask my parents. Right? Yeah, yeah. It's more comfortable that way for sure. Like I said, it's not the topic that we like to talk to with our kids and our kids don't wanna hear it, but being uncomfortable is not an excuse not to do that. And in school you get [00:38:00] the basics of the mechanics of it, but then that ends, that's all you get there as well. And that's not as helpful either. Yeah. The sixth grade menstrual cycle, health class. Yeah, exactly. That's it. They separate the girls and the boys. Yeah. We were all really embarrassed and Yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. Great information. So let's, circle around back to, okay, you've been hiding this secret forever. Mm-hmm. And nobody knows about your past. And then one day you got triggered. So what happened that day? Well, that's the first chapter of my book, and that is one day I was driving to a golf tournament in Tennessee. We live in Cincinnati. I was driving, my daughter was in college. She was playing in a golf tournament. I was driving down there and I was about halfway when I saw an exit sign for the town of Kingsport, Tennessee. And that is the. Town to which my [00:39:00] abuser was sent after he left our church, and it just sent me over the edge. Mm-hmm. All of a sudden I'm thinking, I'm in the town where he lives. Am I close to his house? Am I close to the church where he's now a minister? I mean, even though it'd been 27 years, I thought he was probably still there. I didn't know, but that's what my mind was telling me. I, all of a sudden I felt his presence in the car. I, I could smell him. I could hear him. Oh. I was, it was unbelievable to me what was happening to me. I didn't even know what was happening. I pulled to the side of the road Oh, good. And I sobbed. Yeah. I sobbed for about 20 minutes and I was just trying to figure out what was happening because anytime I had trigger factors before I could manage them, I could control them. I kind of let them happen and then I push 'em back down. Mm-hmm. This one wasn't going back down and I was a mess. I was just an absolute mess. I was able to get through the weekend. I drove back home and all I could think about was, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? [00:40:00] I wanted to stop thinking about him and I couldn't. I spent the next two weeks, really in anxiety. I, my husband would leave for work and I would just walk around the house, wring my hands, trying to figure out why I was feeling the way I was feeling. What was I gonna do with these feelings till at one point I finally decided I was gonna tell my best friend, and I was absolutely petrified to tell her because for the first time in 27 years, I was going to utter the words. I was sexually abused by my youth pastor. And I remember thinking, he's gonna find out and I'm gonna get in trouble. I just, I was 49 years old and I'm still afraid of this man. But I did tell her, it was, it took me a long time to, to get the words out, but I did, she was very supportive. She was very kind. She was patient as she waited for me to tell her. And so that started my journey of healing just by telling that first person. I then told two or three other of my close friends, so the four of us spent [00:41:00] many days and many hours on the screened in porch of one of my friends just letting me talk. Mm-hmm. And being able to express what had happened to me. I wasn't ready to tell all of the story. I mean, there's parts in the book that I won't go into here because they're pretty mm-hmm. Embarrassing and some things that I did. So I wasn't ready to tell them everything, but I told them enough that it helped me start to release what had been done to me. And so that was the first thing that I did, I think. And then the next thing I did, which was so valuable, and I encouraged victims to do it as well, I just read everything I could on clergy abuse or sexual abuse in itself. So I began to learn the terms of grooming, manipulation, gaslighting, and then I could see how he methodically used each one of those things on me to get me to do the things he got me to do, and to stay in that relationship for those five years. And that was huge for me. So [00:42:00] it was, for the first time as I began reading, I understood that I had been abused. Now, it still took me a while to admit that I really was sexually abused because I didn't want that label. I didn't wanna be an abuse victim. And there was a part of me. We all wanna be loved. And so there was still a part of me that I wanted to think that there was some part of him that cared about me, that this wasn't just purely about sex and that he wasn't just using me for his own gratification. And I had to get past that. I had to finally come to terms with, no, this man didn't do the no one who loves you, would do the things he did and ask the things he did of me. So that took me a while, to finally admit, okay, this was an abusive relationship. So I told someone, educating myself, and then I had to learn to forgive myself. I had to let, I had to let go of the guilt [00:43:00] and shame because any guilt and shame belongs squarely on him. This was a man that I should have been able to trust. It was in a place that should have been the safest place on earth for me. And he took advantage of a vulnerable teenager who had, I didn't have a major crisis in my life, but he knew my home life was an upheaval at times. He knew that I didn't see my dad very much. So he used that to against me. And I had to forgive myself for being who I was at the time and being able to respond the way I did for the coping skills I had at the time. Sure. You can look back. I, and I think, why didn't I say this? Why didn't I do that? But I couldn't because of, of the re of the relationship he had created between us. Mm-hmm. I had lost all power. He was in complete control of this relationship, so I had to forgive myself and that wasn't easy either. Then, and I don't know that this is something all victims should do, but I just felt this need [00:44:00] that I needed to confront him. I just felt like I couldn't move past this unless I was able to face him. Now, I had no contact with him for 27 years. I didn't even know if he was still alive, but I hired a private investigator and he found him ministering in a church in Alabama. And so I had my investigator contact him and we set up a time and a meeting that we would meet. And I took my husband, I took my friend who was a counselor and another friend who was at the church at the time. Um, I wanted her at this point. You told your husband at this point, I'm sorry. Yes, that's correct. I, it was probably three months after I told my friends, that I said to him I would like to meet him in his office and talked to him about something and. I was terrified. I don't know how else to say it. I just was so afraid. Not that I needed to be, but I was. And I probably sat there for almost, [00:45:00] I would say, 40 minutes and just cried. I was able to finally get out. I'm okay, the kids are okay, and then I started crying again. He couldn't have been any more supportive, more loving. I remember looking at his face and I said I was sexually abused by my youth pastor, and he didn't. His expression didn't change, and then I said. I was their babysitter and his face just dropped. And for the first time, I could see the pain I was feeling was reflected in his face. It was, I almost wanted to hug him to say, I'm sorry. 'cause I could see how much it hurt him to know that this had been done to me, especially as a baby. I mean, the picture became complete for him once I said that. And so he was very supportive. I think he was worried about me confronting this man, for a couple reasons. But one, I think he was worried that I would be disappointed in his reaction, and that I would be expecting too much of this [00:46:00] person to understand what he did to me and show any kind of remorse, and that I, it would hurt me even more. And one of my fears was that, I was afraid he wouldn't meet me. I was afraid that he was gonna say, no, I'm not gonna meet with you. And my husband said, oh, he's gonna meet with you all right? Because if he doesn't meet with you, you just tell him. Call the church secretary. We'll call every elder. We're gonna, he, somebody's gonna hear your story if he doesn't want to hear it. So he did agree to meet with me. I went down to Alabama and the meeting took place and I said the things that I wanted to say to him. I wanted him to get what he did to me. But he didn't, he never could understand the damage. It was almost as if, okay, I shouldn't have done it and I'm sorry I did it. Okay, now what do you want? It was, get away. You bother me? Yes. And his greatest fear as most narcissist, and I believe he was, narcissistic, but his greatest fear was that I was going to demand that he be removed from the ministry. I mean, that's what he [00:47:00] was most concerned about, how this was going to impact him. And he should have been out of the ministry. So I went to his. Boss. I was told this, and something happened 27 years ago. He, we think he's safe. We're not worried, in spite of the fact that during the meeting he had admitted that there had been multiple occurrences of sexual misconduct throughout his ministry. Not all teenagers, some were most were probably women. And then he said he had gone to therapy because he had been identified as a sexual addict. And I kept thinking, who, what? What world, what world? Does this make sense that a man who has been identified by a psychologist as a sex addict belongs in the ministry? Nope. But here was this church. So I sent a letter to his 11 elders thinking, okay, somebody in this eldership is gonna see this. Is I something's wrong here. Not one responded totally [00:48:00] ignored me. 11 elders totally ignored me. Wow. No worries. So then, I decided to go to his denominational leaders, which were in Indianapolis. And there again, while they were sympathetic to my story and apologize that it happened, they said, we're an independent church. Our churches hire and fire their own ministers. We have no control and if they choose to keep this man, we can do nothing about it. And so what, I was shut down and basically I had no place else to go. I had pretty much. Done everything I could do. And it wasn't my place in the man that he be removed. I expected the church to be, the church was to do the right thing. Exactly. I assumed so naively that once they heard my story and once they understood the background of this man, surely someone would say, this isn't right. But again, keep in mind he's very charismatic. He brings in [00:49:00] people, he brings in money. And to be fair, and probably I'm being a little too gracious, these men are very good at manipulating not only the victim but the congregation as well. They're very good at getting control of the congregation so that they find themselves following this man no matter what he would do. Yeah. And that's basically what happened. There was going to be, I got a four page letter from his boss telling me that, know, I'm going to. Ruin this church if I continue on this path and that I'm going to feel all this guilt because I'm gonna be responsible for the damage that I will do to pe people's spiritual lives. I mean that, it was an incredible, I put the letter in the book, I, because it is so incredibly, hard to believe that someone write that to a victim of abuse. Just So that was What year did that happen? 2004. Okay. So we did have. We did have the internet. Oh, yes. And this was after the Catholic, [00:50:00] church had their, exposure of sexual abuse within their church. So yes, this was, it was out there for sure. This wasn't something that you would think, oh, I can't believe this happened. And again, he had admitted to these past instances. I mean, this wasn't someone who was saying, oh, I don't know what she's talking about. Or, oh, this is the only time it ever happened. He had been in therapy because he was a sexual addict, So he wasn't registered as a sex offender? I guess not. And in my case, at the time of the abuse, the age of consent was 16. So I had no legal recourse because of I was either legally age of consent. Now that has been changed in Ohio. It's now 18. It's now 18, but many states it's still 16. There are several states where the age of consent is 16. Now, the interesting about that is. His contact sexual contact with me was not considered a crime. However, if he had been my high school teacher, it would've been a crime. What, so pastors I know [00:51:00] does not make sense. It does not make a leg of sense. No, it does not. So it, they don't consider him a teacher. They don't cons, they don't, they considered an affair. A mutual. Relationship if he'd been my teacher, that's a different story. So yeah, I had no legal recourse. And that was frustrating. But I couldn't change that. So it was what it was. I just had to accept that he, yes, he belonged in jail. Yes, there's no doubt and should be registered as a sex offender, but I'm not so sure that even if he's registered as a sex offender, these people in Alabama and wherever he is now, would. Even take that as a concern. Well, you know, the millennials now, they'll just, they just post stuff on Facebook and Twitter and call the evening news and they have, yes. News people at their doorstep, right. Ready to mm-hmm. Track this guy's name through the mud. Mm-hmm. But you didn't choose to do that, I guess. No, you know, I'm very careful about naming him in the sense that, part of my story is that I [00:52:00] reconnected with his wife. She actually divorced him after they moved, because again, he committed sexual misconduct. She was 20, I think, at the time, so it wasn't a minor, but that's beside the point. This is a man in a position that, a professional who does not cross boundaries like that. So, to no one surprise, he committed sexual misconduct the third time, so she divorced him. And part of, I guess letting go of some of the guilt that I felt, I wanted to. Connect with her to at least tell her, not that I was responsible for what happened, but how very sorry I was for her pain and suffering as well because she was part of the youth group. I mean, she was there at the church all the time. We sang in the choir together. So it was like I had a relationship with her. Oh wow. To some extent. And of course when, we were found, when he was found out by the elders, she was upset and she of course, didn't wanna have anything to do with me, which is understandable. So I actually think I [00:53:00] also wanted to give her the opportunity to say whatever she felt she needed to say to me if she wanted to. I mean, I didn't know what she was gonna say or react. I thought maybe she'd hang up on me. I didn't know. So I called her one day. My investigator found her phone number and gave it to me, and she couldn't have been any more gracious. I, she never blamed me. She understood as she, as the years went on, what this really was just like I did. She's remarried. She's has a wonderful husband now. And so I visited her several times. We keep in contact. And so part of my not wanting to expose him too much is that it would be hurtful to her. And he does have children. Now. I know that, well, whatever consequences are as a result of this are all on him, but I don't feel the need to add to that. That's not my purpose in speaking out. And so, mm-hmm. I've gone to his church leaders, I've done everything I can to get him removed from the ministry. And nothing, it's just [00:54:00] he's still, I don't know that he's still a pastor, but he still remains in good standing within that denomination to this day. Yeah. I mean, sometimes we have to just let God. Right. Dish out the justice. It may not be in our timeline, it may not be the way that we think it should happen, but Right. He's not gonna get away with this. No. And again, I did my part. Yes. So my conscience is clear and I am able to say I did what I could do and whether or not they removed him, I certainly hope that I maybe put some doubt in some of their minds and maybe questioned their motives in keeping this man. I don't know. But, I feel I did what I could do and I feel good about that. I feel good about that. Absolutely, you should. And what I'm really interested in is, you're trying to keep this stuff from happening to other people, so, I mean, what can we do to prevent some of this stuff? Well, it's [00:55:00] difficult again, because these men are among us as wolves in sheep's clothing, and so they're difficult to spot. But a couple things. I think the first thing I would tell people is if something doesn't seem right. Keep your antenna up. Don't just ignore it or just don't think, oh, well that can't be true because he's the pastor. Mm-hmm. If it's behavior that you wouldn't accept in someone else, or it's something that you would question in someone else, then question it in the pastor or the choir director, whoever it is. Don't be blinded by the person. The persona that they're presenting to you. So that's the first thing I would say is keep your antenna up. The other thing is we, and we're churches, I think are doing better about this, but you've got to have policies in place that say, no, you're not taking a 16-year-old girl on your hospital visit with you. Yes. That's, that's not normal. That's not right. What is she doing going on a hospital visit with you in a car? And of course now we have the texting [00:56:00] and there should be absolutely no texting between a pastor, a youth minister, and anyone in the congregation. And that includes, no, don't forget the meeting for the church luncheon. No, there should be no texting because you, it's too hidden and it's too easily moved to the next step. And that's how it starts. You know, all of the abuse when it's someone you know, it always starts with small things and subtle things. It doesn't, innocent things. Innocent things that, yeah, that, that are innocent. But so that's why, so no texting. Yeah. So put in the policy, those places of, when you take a 10-year-old child to the bathroom, you make sure there's another adult with you. Absolutely. That's for your safety as well as for the child's safety. Mm-hmm. So I, I think we need to be aware. And then I would also say watch for the vulnerable in your, among your church or your group. Watch for the kid that's got issues at home and is looking for a father figure. Be aware that they're going to be more susceptible to someone who's a predator and pay [00:57:00] attention to their cues and kind of keep in touch with them as well in a sense of asking questions and how they're doing and be the kind of a person that they might feel comfortable coming to if something were to happen to them because they're the ones that are gonna be most vulnerable, to a predator. So that's kind of, an overview of what. Maybe a help to try and stop and prevent some of this. Yes, I like lots of video cameras. They're cheap now. You can put a camera, you can hide cameras all over the church facility and Yes. And I think too, talking to this about this issue to the congregation before anything happens, maybe having a person in your congregation who is the go-to person on this topic, who, who's researched what all these grooming and manipulation is so that they are even more equipped to, to notice the signs. So you have a person who's kind of in charge of that topic and then address it to the congregation once a year and say, here's our policy and here's what we expect of our pastors and here's what we would hope you would [00:58:00] do if you notice something. So it just brings it out so that people feel like if there is something that they know is going on or something's wrong, they feel comfortable going to someone about it. Those are all really great tips for leaders and, church members. So what, what if I am listening and I am being subjected to some of this stuff, what should I do? Well, what you need to do and what is the hardest thing to do is to tell someone. Yeah. And it's hard to do because when you're in an abusive relationship, you are being controlled by your abuser. And the narrative is what he is directing. And so he's going to tell you, look, you can tell anybody you want. They're not gonna believe you. And he tells you that over and over again. He's also going to tell you that you are going to be in trouble if you tell anyone. And then there's that problem of you sort [00:59:00] of care about this person. Here's someone that has been helping you, who's been your mentor, and you don't wanna get him in trouble. So with all those dynamics involved, it's very difficult for victims to come forward. But I am telling you, you don't wanna wait the 27 years that I did no. And live with this guilt and the shame and the angst and the anxiety. First of all, it's not worth it. You're not doing anyone any favors, especially yourself, because there is help out there. But they can only help you if you're able to be able to tell someone. And believe me, I understand how difficult that is. It's not easy. Mm-hmm. But I would hope that I hearing my story and others that you will understand that there is help out there and you need to tell someone. 'cause it won't end until you tell someone. And if you need to, you go to someone that you trust. And if you need to, you go outside the church. Yes. You tell someone you know is going to listen to you. [01:00:00] Hey, I tell my listeners, you can call me anytime mm-hmm. And email me and I'm sure you'd say the same thing. Exactly. Reach out to Sandy if mm-hmm. You need somebody to talk to. Mm-hmm. Or you don't know what is the next step I need to take here? Right. It is scary to make First step. It's very scary. Very scary. Absolutely. So then there's the rest of us, those that have not experienced clergy abuse, maybe we're members in the church, maybe we're friends or family. What are some helpful things for us to do to support a victim? Helpful things to say, maybe there's things we shouldn't say, well, that's a yes. First, I would say anytime you're aware of a victim of clergy abuse or anybody who's been abused, whether it's clergy or not, reiterate to that victim that it was not their fault and that there was nothing they could have done, should have done that would've prevented this. And by doing that, you are [01:01:00] telling that person they're free to speak to you. And victims need to hear it over and over again because we do blame ourselves. Children as young as five will blame themselves because they allowed someone to touch them 'cause mommy said not to. And the that guilt in that shame that victims carry, it's difficult to let go of it. So to hear someone say to us, it's not your fault is so freeing. So that's the first thing. The second thing I would say is. Let them know that you will listen to them without judging them, and you will hear their story without being shocked that you are able to say, tell me everything you need to tell me, or Tell me as little as you wanna tell me. Give them a comfort place to go to talk. And then I would say, and this is difficult for people who have spiritual lives or who are part of the church, be very much aware that things such as prayer and Bible reading and [01:02:00] scripture can be very triggering for those who've been abused in the church. Mm-hmm. So things that you would find comforting like prayer. Can be a very major trigger factor for victims. And so instead of saying to a victim, I'll pray for you, or Can I pray with you? The best thing you could say would be to phrase it in such a way as to say, I understand because of what you've been through, prayer can be difficult. And so I would like to pray for you, but I would completely understand if you don't want to pray or you won't, don't even want me to pray for you. And so you've opened up the door to say to this person, wow, I don't have to feel guilty because I can't pray. You know, when we've grown up in the church and we've been told how wonderful church and prayer and all those things are, we still carry that guilt too because we're no longer connected to God. So to have a person on the outside. Recognize that these can be trigger factors is again, a gift. It's a [01:03:00] gift. So those things I think would be the most helpful when dealing with a person of clergy abuse. And give them time. Don't push forgiveness. Don't push trying to get them back into church. 'cause some victims will never be able to go back to church if you let them find their own pace of time and you do it without judging them. And I know that's kind of hard sometimes for Christians and people in the church because we love the church and we find it to be such a wonderful place and we want this person back in the church. Yes. But it, it may not be the best place at that point for that victim. Such valuable advice. I That is awesome. And again, back to like, when you're talking about the sex education, open up the dialogue, you know? Yeah. Bring it up. Bring it up before they bring it up. Again, I read in the newspaper that this girl was molested by, a gym teacher. You know that, that ha I know that happens. And then let 'em know that if. It is, like you said, allowing that comfort to be able to [01:04:00] talk to someone. I think for me it was important to give my side of the story. No one had a clue that he was emotionally and verbally and physically abusive to me. They saw this as a little love affair and that we had this, magic little love affair. Evil temptress. Yes, exactly. And so I wanted them to know the full story. That was important for my healing too. And they did that. And, they welcomed me back to the church. I went back, I've been back a couple times for, a youth group reunion that we had. So, and that was difficult. But again, I thought that was necessary for me to move forward. I had to let go of my past. I had to figure out, not to forget it, but how was I going to incorpo

We had a kwentuhan with Juan Algae last Philippine Startup Week 2025!Juan Algae is the 1st Filipino algal paste for fisheries, created in Miag-ao, Iloilo! Built from research and now being bought and used by aquaculturists all around the Philippines!This episode is recorded live at the Philippine Innovation Hub in Marikina City.In this episode:00:00 Introduction01:06 Ano ang Juan Algae?26:20 How can listeners find more information?JUAN ALGAEWebsite: https://pcaarrd.dost.gov.ph/index.php/quick-information-dispatch-qid-articles/juan-algae-a-microalgal-paste-is-a-cost-effective-feed-for-milkfish-hatcheriesFacebook: https://facebook.com/algaconaquafeedsPHILIPPINE STARTUP WEEKWebsite: https://phstartupweek.comFacebook: https://facebook.com/PhilippineStartupWeekTHIS EPISODE IS CO-PRODUCED BY:Yspaces: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://knowyourspaceph.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apeiron: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://apeirongrp.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twala: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twala.io⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Symph: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://symph.co⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Secuna: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://secuna.io⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SkoolTek by Edfolio: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://skooltek.co⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠MaroonStudios: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://maroonstudios.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠CompareLoans: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://compareloans.ph⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠CHECK OUT OUR PARTNERS:Ask Lex PH Academy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://asklexph.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (5% discount on e-learning courses! Code: ALPHAXSUP)Argum AI: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://argum.ai⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠PIXEL by Eplayment: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://pixel.eplayment.co/auth/sign-up?r=PIXELXSUP1⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (Sign up using Code: PIXELXSUP1)School of Profits: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://schoolofprofits.academy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Founders Launchpad: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://founderslaunchpad.vc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Hier Business Solutions: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://hierpayroll.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Agile Data Solutions (Hustle PH): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://agiledatasolutions.tech⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smile Checks: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://getsmilechecks.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠CloudCFO: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://cloudcfo.ph⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (Free financial assessment, process onboarding, and 6-month QuickBooks subscription! Mention: Start Up Podcast PH)Cloverly: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://cloverly.tech⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BuddyBetes: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://buddybetes.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠HKB Digital Services: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://contakt-ph.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (10% discount on RFID Business Cards! Code: CONTAKTXSUP)Hyperstacks: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://hyperstacksinc.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠OneCFO: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://onecfoph.co⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (10% discount on CFO services! Code: ONECFOXSUP)Wunderbrand: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://wunderbrand.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠DVCode Technologies Inc: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dvcode.tech⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠NutriCoach: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://nutricoach.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Uplift Code Camp: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://upliftcodecamp.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (5% discount on bootcamps and courses! Code: UPLIFTSTARTUPPH)START UP PODCAST PHYouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtube.com/startuppodcastph⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/6BObuPvMfoZzdlJeb1XXVa⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/start-up-podcast/id1576462394⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://facebook.com/startuppodcastph⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://patreon.com/StartUpPodcastPH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠PIXEL: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://pixel.eplayment.co/dl/startuppodcastph⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://phstartup.online⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠This episode is edited by the team at: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tasharivera.com⁠⁠

From wearing polka dots to preparing 12 round fruits, these practices may lack scientific proof, yet they remain deeply rooted in Filipino culture as symbols of hope, prosperity, and protection as the new year begins. - Kahit walang ebidensyang siyentipiko, nananatili ang mga paniniwalang ito bilang bahagi ng kultura at kolektibong pag-asa para sa suwerte, kasaganaan, at ligtas na panibagong simula.

Here are today's top stories on SBS Filipino. - Alamin ang pinakamainit na balita ngayong Miyerkules sa SBS Filipino.

Begoña Montoro, una profesora de español que reside en Hong Kong desde hace doce años, ha compartido su experiencia celebrando el fin de año 2025 en la remota isla de Malapascua, Filipinas. Ante la imposibilidad de viajar a España por la brevedad de las vacaciones, Begoña y su marido, apasionado del buceo, eligieron este destino conocido por sus tiburones zorro, donde la transición al 2026 se vive de una manera marcadamente local y comunitaria.En la isla, la festividad huye de las grandes aglomeraciones y se centra en cenas familiares, música en directo en el mercado y sesiones de karaoke, una de las grandes aficiones de los filipinos. Pese a la distancia, Begoña mantiene rituales como la ropa interior roja, aunque este año ha optado por no tomar las tradicionales uvas debido al gran tamaño y las semillas de la variedad local.Begoña, que echa de menos su "rincón secreto" en la Azohía (Cartagena), describe Malapascua como un lugar de encuentro donde el turismo español ha crecido notablemente, consolidando a Filipinas como un destino exótico de referencia para quienes buscan naturaleza y autenticidad antes de regresar a la rutina académica en el continente.

Here are today's top stories on SBS Filipino. - Alamin ang pinakamainit na balita ngayong Martes sa SBS Filipino.

Here are today's top stories on SBS Filipino. - Alamin ang pinakamainit na balita ngayong Lunes sa SBS Filipino.

This week on Hustleshare, host Ron Baetiong sits down with tech pioneer Dado Banatao, alongside Maria Banatao of the Phildev Foundation, to trace the journey that earned him the title “Bill Gates of the Philippines”—from a rural barrio to engineering school, Boeing, and Silicon Valley. They also dive into Dado's semiconductor breakthroughs, early entrepreneurial setbacks, and the VC framework he now uses to support the next generation of Filipino founders.Resources:LinkedIn (Dado Banatao): https://www.linkedin.com/in/dado-banatao-96ba89b7/LinkedIn (Maria Banatao): https://www.linkedin.com/in/maria-banatao-49721a38/Website (PhilDev): https://www.phildev.org/Links/Sponsors:OneCFO: https://www.onecfoph.co/PLDT Enterprise: https://pldtenterprise.com- MSME Fiberbiz - https://bit.ly/pldtenterprise-ROId-nbsi-fiberbiz - 5G SIM Only - https://bit.ly/pldtenterprise-ROId-nbsi-smart-postpaid Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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On SBS Filipino's Trending Now podcast this week, tributes and condolences poured in for the renowned Filipino engineer and tech inventor of the world's first single microchip set, Diosdado Banatao, who passed away at the age of 79 on Christmas Day. - Sa Trending Ngayon podcast ng SBS Filipino ngayong linggo, bumuhos ang pagbibigay-pugay at pag-aalala sa natatanging Pilipinong inhinyero at inbentor ng unang microchip set sa mundo na si Diosdado Banatao na pumanaw sa edad na 79 noong nagdaang araw ng Pasko.

Here are today's top stories on SBS Filipino. - Alamin ang pinakamainit na balita ngayong Linggo sa SBS Filipino.

Episode overview Episode 2 continues Season 10's thematic journey with a focused conversation on feminism and disaster studies. The discussion explores how feminist thinking reshapes disaster scholarship and practice, challenges dominant canons, and opens space for listening, care, solidarity, and justice-oriented research. Hosts Jason von Meding Ksenia Chmutina Guests Kaira Zoe Alburo-Cañete — Filipino feminist scholar, Senior Researcher at the Humanitarian Studies Centre (ISS, Erasmus University Rotterdam) Susamma Seely — crisis and disaster human services specialist; PhD candidate in Disaster Science and Management (University of Delaware) Key themes Feminism as a pathway for expanding disaster scholarship Reading, curiosity, and discovery beyond disciplinary canons Privilege, access, and barriers to knowledge production Listening, hearing, and acting on marginalized voices Feminist methodologies: reflexivity, positionality, care, and solidarity Decolonial and postcolonial feminist perspectives The personal, emotional, and everyday dimensions of disasters Core discussion highlights Guests reflect on their reading trajectories and how lived experience, storytelling, and curiosity shape feminist scholarship. Feminism is discussed not as a single framework but as a diverse set of approaches that open space for multiple voices, emotions, and forms of knowledge. Kaira Alburo-Cañete discusses bell hooks, emphasizing feminist standpoint epistemology, intersectionality, marginality as a site of resistance, and the role of love, care, and solidarity in disaster research. Susamma Seely discusses Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak, focusing on subalternity, listening as a political act, and the challenge of creating spaces where marginalized voices can be heard and acted upon. The conversation highlights reading as a collective, social practice—through discussion, listening (including audiobooks), and shared curiosity. Participants reflect on how feminist and decolonial perspectives can inform more equitable research partnerships, especially across Global North–Global South contexts.

Get your learning gifts for the month of January 2026

Here are today's top stories on SBS Filipino. - Alamin ang pinakamainit na balita ngayong Sabado sa SBS Filipino.

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Despite being far from the Philippines, many Filipinos in Western Australia continue to celebrate a traditional Filipino Christmas by coming together for potluck Noche Buena, recreating the warmth of family through friendship and community. - Sa kabila ng pagiging malayo sa Pilipinas, pinananatili ng ilang Pilipino sa Western Australia ang diwa ng Paskong Pinoy sa pamamagitan ng salo salo, potluck, at pagbubuo ng isang kunwaring “barangay” na nagsisilbing pamilya tuwing Noche Buena.

Bretman welcomes iconic singer-songwriters AJ & Alyssa Rafael for an episode filled with music, memories, and pure Filipino joy. They talk Christmas tour life in Hawaiʻi, Filipino traditions (including Christmas caroling hustles), how AJ first blew up here, poke cravings, Zippy's orders, and why Hawaiʻi feels like home. Bretman also digs into their marriage, Broadway dreams, Wicked opinions, Disney nostalgia, and their chaotic friendship history.Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. APEX Express and Lavender Phoenix are both members of AACRE, Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality. AACRE focuses on long-term movement building, capacity infrastructure, and leadership support for Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders committed to social justice.   To learn more about Lavender Phoenix, please visit their website. You can also listen to a previous APEX Express episode honoring Lavender Phoenix's name change.    Miata Tan: ​[00:00:00] Hello and welcome. You are tuning in to APEX Express, a weekly radio show uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans. I am your host, Miata Tan. And before we get started, I wanted to let you know that this show was recorded on December 16th, 2025. Things may have changed by the time you hear this. I also wanted to take a moment to acknowledge [00:01:00] some recent gun violence tragedies, not only in the US but globally. As you might be able to tell from my accent, I'm Australian.  Over the weekend, 15 people were killed in Sydney, on Bondi Beach in a mass shooting. The likes not seen in 30 years. . Australia's gun control laws are different to the US in a number of ways that I won't get into right now, but this massacre is one of the few we've seen since the nineties. In the US we've also seen the shooting at Brown University where two of their students were killed by a still active shooter. It's strange. Guns and weapons are horrific. Tools used to take the life of people every day globally. An everyday occurrence now brings a degree of complacency. Although you personally might not have been [00:02:00] impacted by these recent shootings, the wars going on abroad, or government attacks on immigrant communities, and ICE deportation cases taking place here in America, the impact of horrific acts of violence have ripple effects that spread across this country and world. Careless violence motivated by hate for another be that racially charged conflicting ideologies. It's all awful. And I, and I guess I wanted to acknowledge that here at the top of this episode. Profound hatred and judgment toward others is not only incredibly sad, it's self-defeating. And I don't mean to sound all preachy and I understand it's December 25th and perhaps you're sick of the sound of my voice and you're about to change the station. In all honesty, I, I would've by [00:03:00] now. It's easy to tune out suffering. It's easy to tune out violence, but if you're still listening. Today, as many of us are gathering for the holiday ,season, whether or not you believe in a higher power or acknowledge that big guy in a red suit that brings kids presents, I invite you to sit with some of these thoughts. To acknowledge and reflect on the violence that exists around us, the hatred and dehumanization. We as humans are capable of feeling toward one another. Let's just sit here for a moment with that uncomfortability. Now. Think, what can I do today to make another's life [00:04:00] just that tiny bit brighter? Okay. Now to reintroduce myself and this show, my name is Miata Tan and this is APEX Express. A show that honors Asian American communities far and wide, uplifting the voices of artists, activists, organizers, and more. We have two incredible guests today from Lavender Phoenix, a Bay Area based organization supporting queer and trans Asian and Pacific Islander youth. I really enjoyed my conversation with these two, and I'm sure you will as well. And a quick note throughout both of these conversations, you'll hear us referring to the organization as both Lavender Phoenix and it's very cute nickname Lav Nix. Without further ado, here's [00:05:00] my conversation with Yuan Wang, the outgoing director at Lavender Phoenix.   Miata Tan: Yuan, thank you so much for joining us today. Would you be able to share a little bit about yourself with our listeners to get started?  Yuan Wang: Yeah. I'm so excited to be here. , My name is Yuan. My pronouns are she, and they, and I'm actually the outgoing executive director of Lavender Phoenix. You're catching me on my second to last week in this role after about four years as the executive director, and more years on our staff team as an organizer and also as a part of our youth summer organizer program. So this is a really exciting and special time and I'm really excited to reflect about it with you.  Miata Tan: Yay. I'm so excited. I'd love for you to give us an overview of Lavender Phoenix and the work that y'all do, what communities you support,  Yuan Wang: Lavender Phoenix was founded about 21 years ago, and we are based in the Bay [00:06:00] Area. We're a grassroots organization that builds the power of transgender non-binary and queer Asian and Pacific Islander communities right here in the Bay. Right now our work focuses on three major Areas. The first is around fighting for true community safety. There are so, so many ways that queer, trans, and more broadly, uh, working class communities in the San Francisco Bay Area. Are needing ways to keep ourselves and each other safe, that don't rely on things like policing, that don't rely on things like incarceration that are actually taking people out of our communities and making us less safe. The second big pillar of our work is around healing justice. We know that a lot of folks in our community. Struggle with violence, struggle with trauma, struggle with isolation, and that a lot of the systems that exist aren't actually really designed for queer and trans API people, to thrive and feel connected. And [00:07:00] so, we've been leading programs and campaigns around healing justice. And the last thing is we're trying to build a really principled, high integrity leaderful movement. So we do a ton of base building work, which just means that, everyday queer and trans API people in our community can come to Lavender Phoenix, who want to be involved in organizing and political work. And we train folks to become organizers. Miata Tan: And you yourself came into Lavender Phoenix through one of those programs, is that right?  Yuan Wang: Yeah. Um, that is so true. I came into Lavender Phoenix about seven or eight years ago through the Summer organizer program, which is kind of our flagship youth organizing fellowship. And I was super lucky to be a part of that.  Miata Tan: How has that felt coming into Lavender Phoenix? Like as a participant of one of those programs? Yeah. And now, uh, over the past few years, being able to [00:08:00] lead the organization?  Yuan Wang: Yeah. It feels like the most incredible gift. I share this a lot, but you know, when I had come into Lavender Phoenix through the summer organizer program, I had already had some experience, doing organizing work, you know, doing door knocking, working on campaigns. but I really wanted to be in a space where I felt like I could be all of myself, and that included being trans, you know, that included. Being in a really vulnerable part of my gender transition journey and wanting to feel like I was around people all the time who maybe were in a similar journey or could understand that in a really intimate way. I really found that at Lavender Phoenix. It was pretty unbelievable, to be honest. I remember, uh, the first day that I walked in. There were members and volunteers leading a two hour long political education that was just about the histories of trans and non-binary people in different Asian and Pacific Islander communities. So just being in a room [00:09:00] full of people who shared my identities and where, where we were prioritizing these histories was really, really exciting. I think for the years it's just been so amazing to see Lavender Phoenix grow. The time when I joined, we had a totally different name. It was API equality, Northern California, or we called ourselves a pink and we were really focused on projects like the Dragon Fruit Project, which was a, a series of more than a hundred oral histories that we did with elders and other members members of our community. Things like the Trans Justice Initiative, which were our first efforts at really building a community that was trans centered and that was, was building trans leaders. And now those things are so deeply integrated into our work that they've allowed us to be focused on some more, I think what we call like issue based work, and that that is that community safety, healing justice work. That I mentioned earlier. So, it's just been amazing to witness multiple generations of the organization that has shaped [00:10:00] me so much as a person.  Miata Tan: That's really nice. Seven, eight years that, that whole  Yuan Wang: Yeah, I joined in 2018 in June, so you can maybe do, I think that's about seven and a half years. Yeah. I'm bad at math though.  Miata Tan: Me too. So you've been executive director since late 2021 then? This, these few years since then we've seen a lot of shifts and changes in our I guess global political culture and the way conversations around racial solidarity issues mm-hmm. as you've navigated being executive director, what, what has changed in your approach maybe from 2021 till this year? 2025?  Yuan Wang: Wow, that's such an interesting question. You're so right to say that. I think for anyone who's listening, I, I imagine this resonates that the last four years have [00:11:00] been. Really a period of extraordinary violence and brutality and grief in our world. And that's definitely true for a lot of folks in Lavender Phoenix. You mentioned that we've been living through, you know, continued pandemic that our government is providing so little support and recognition for. We've seen multiple uprisings, uh, in the movement for black lives to defend, you know, and, and bring dignity to the lives of people who were killed and are police. And obviously we're still facing this immense genocide in Gaza and Palestine bombings that continue. So I think if there's, if there's anything that I could say to your question about how my approach has changed. I would say that we as a whole, as an organization have had to continue to grow stronger and stronger in balancing our long-term vision. Intensifying urgent needs of right now and [00:12:00] balancing doing the work that it takes to defend our people and try to change institutions with the incredible and at times overwhelming grief of living in this moment. Yeah, you know, in this past year, um. Have been members of our community and, and our larger community who have passed away. Uh, I'm sure there are some listeners who know, Alice Wong, Patty by architects of the disability justice movement that Lavender Phoenix has learned so much from who have passed away. And we've had to balance, you know. Like one week there's threats that the National Guard and that ICE will be deployed and even higher numbers to San Francisco and, and across the Bay Area. And oh my gosh, so many of us are sitting with an incredible personal grief that we're trying to hold too. So, I think that's been one of the biggest challenges of the last few years is, is finding that balance. Yeah. I can say that some of the things that I feel proudest of are, [00:13:00] you know, just as an example, in our healing justice work, over the past four years, our members have been architecting a, a trans, API peer counseling program. And, through that program they've been able to provide, first of all, train up. So many trans API, people as skilled, as attentive, as loving peer counselors who are then able to provide that. Free, uh, accessible peer mental health support to other people who need it. So I think that's just one example. Something that gives me a lot of hope is seeing the way that our members are still finding ways to defend and love and support each other even in a time of really immense grief.  Miata Tan: That's really beautiful and it's important that you are listening to your community members at this time. How do you, this is kind of specific, but how do you all gather together? Yeah, Yuan Wang: yeah. You know, I feel really lucky 'cause I think for the last 10 years we, Lavender Phoenix as a whole, even before I was a part of it, has been [00:14:00] building towards a model of really collective governance. Um, and, and I don't wanna make it sound like it. You know, it's perfect. It's very challenging. It's very hard. But I think like our comrades at Movement generation often say, if we're not prepared to govern, then we're not prepared to win. And we try to take that, that practice really seriously here. So, you know, I think that, that getting together. That making decisions with each other, that making sure that members and staff are both included. That happens at like a really high strategic level. You know, the three pillars of our theory of change that I mentioned earlier, those were all set through a year of strategy retreats between our staff, but also a. 10 to 15 of our most experienced and most involved members who are at that decision making. The same comes for our name, uh, Lavender Phoenix. You know, it was, it was really our core committee, our, our member leaders who helped decide on that name. And then we invited some of our elders to speak about what it meant for them, for us to choose Lavender Phoenix, because it was an homage to the work [00:15:00] so many of our elders did in the eighties and nineties. It also looks like the day-to-day, because a lot of our work happens through specific committees, whether it's our community safety committee or healing justice committee. Um, and those are all committees where there's one staff person, but it's really a room of 5, 10, 15 members who are leading community safety trainings. The peer counseling program, training new members through our rise up onboarding, um, and setting new goals, new strategic targets every single year. So, it's always in progress. We're in fact right now working on some challenges and getting better at it, but we're really trying to practice what governing and self-determination together looks like right in our own organization. Miata Tan: And a lot of these people are volunteers too.  Yuan Wang: yeah, so when I joined the organization there were two staff, two mighty staff people at the time. We've grown to nine full-time staff people, but most of our organization is volunteers. [00:16:00] Yeah. And we call those folks members, you know, committed volunteers who are participants in one of our committees or projects. Um, and I believe right now there's about 80 members in Lavender Phoenix.  Miata Tan: Wow. It's wonderful to hear so much growth has happened in, um, this period that you've been with Lavender Phoenix. The idea of empowering youth, I think is core to a lot of Lavender Phoenix's work. What has that looked like specifically in the last few years, especially this year? Yuan Wang: Yeah, the  Miata Tan: challenges.  Yuan Wang: That's a great question. I think, um, you know, one of those ways is, is really specifically targeted towards young people, right? It's the summer organizer program, which I went through many years ago, and our previous executive director was also an alumnus of the summer organizer program, but that's, you know, an eight to 10 week fellowship. It's paid, it's designed specifically for young trans and queer API people who are working class, who grew up in the [00:17:00] Bay to organize with us and, and really. Hopefully be empowered with tools that they'll use for the next decade or for the rest of their life. But I'll also say, you know, you mentioned that Lavender Phoenix has grown so much in the last few years, and that is such a credit to folks who were here 10 years ago, even 15 years ago, you know, because, the intergenerational parts of our work started years before I was involved. You know, I mentioned earlier the Dragon Fruit Project where we were able to connect so, so many elders in our community with a lot of younger folks in our community who were craving relationships and conversations and like, what happened in the eighties? What happened in the nineties, what did it feel like? Why are you still organizing? Why does this matter to you? And we're actually able to have those conversations with folks in, in our community who. Have lived and fought and organized for decades already. So I think that was like one early way we started to establish that like intergenerational in our work.[00:18:00]  And a lot of those folks have stayed on as volunteers, as supporters, some as members, and as donors or advisors. So I feel really lucky that we're still benefiting in terms of building the leadership of young people, but also intergenerational reality overall because of work that folks did 10 years ago. Miata Tan: That's really important. Having those, those ties that go back. Queer history is so rich, especially in the, in the Bay Area. And there's a lot to honor.  With the intersection between queer and immigrant histories here, I wonder if you have anything that comes to mind. Yuan Wang: I think that queer and immigrant histories intersect in the lives of so many of our, our members and, and the people who are inspiration too. You know, I'm not sure that. I think a lot of listeners may not know that Lavender Phoenix is as a name. It's an homage to Lavender, Godzilla, [00:19:00] and Phoenix Rising, which were two of the first publications. They were newsletters launched back in the eighties by groups of. Uh, trans and queer API, folks who are now elders and who were looking around, you know, learning from the Black Power movement, learning from solidarity movements in the Bay Area, and saying we really need to create spaces where. Trans and queer Asian Pacific Islanders can talk about our journeys of migration, our family's journeys as refugees, our experiences with war, and then also about love and joy and finding friendship and putting out advertisements so that people could get together for potlucks. So yeah, I think, um, there's so much about the intersection of immigrant and queer and trans journeys that have been. Just even at the root of how we name ourselves and how we think of ourselves as an or as an organization today.  Miata Tan: I think today, more than ever all of these [00:20:00] communities feel a little more than a little under threat,  Yuan Wang: we could say so much about that. I think one thing that we're really paying attention to is, uh, we're seeing in different communities across the country, the ways in which the right wing is. Uh, kind of wielding the idea of trans people, uh,  the perceived threat that trans people pose. As a wedge issue to try to build more more power, more influence, more connections in immigrant communities and in the process like really invisiblizing or really amplifying the harm that immigrant, trans and queer. People experience every single day. So I think something that we're thinking about on the horizon, you know, whether it's, uh, partnering with organizations in California or in the Bay Area or across the country who are doing that really critical base building work, power building work in immigrant communities is trying to ask, you know. How do we actually proactively as [00:21:00] progressives, as people on the left, how do we proactively have conversations with immigrant communities about trans and queer issues, about the, uh, incredibly overlapping needs that trans and queer people in all people who are marginalized right now have in these political conditions? Um, how can we be proactive about those combinations and making those connections so that, we can kind of inoculate folks against the way that the right wing is targeting trans people, is fear mongering about trans people and trying to make inroads in immigrant communities. Yeah. That's one thing on our radar for the future. Miata Tan: That's so important. Kind of, breaking down those, those stereotypes Yuan Wang: totally breaking down stereotypes, breaking down misinformation. And yeah, it reminds me of a few years ago Lavender Phoenix held a few conversations with a partner organization of ours where there were some younger folks from our organization who are talking to some older immigrant members of that organization and we're just [00:22:00] connecting about, the sacred importance of, parenting trans and queer kids right now of, you know, and, and just having conversations that actually humanize all of us rather than buying into narratives and stories that that dehumanize and, and that flatten us. Yeah. Um, so that we can defend ourselves from the way that the right wing is trying to hurt immigrant communities and trans and queer communities. Miata Tan: the youth that you work directly with each week. Is there anything as you reflect back on your, your time with Laxs that really stand out, things that folks have said or led conversations in?  Yuan Wang: Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, I, I could, I could celebrate things that I've witnessed every single year. You know, we the young people in the summer organizer program experience so, so much in, in many ways it's kind of like the faucets, like all the way on, you know, like there's, [00:23:00] they're learning so much about skills and values and projects and, you know, just as some examples this last summer, we had a team of summer organizers who helped lead an event that was about COVID safety and disability justice, where people actually got together to build DIY air filters that could hopefully, you know, make them feel safer in their own homes. And, um, in previous years we've had summer organizers work on the peer counseling program. There's so much that folks have done. I think what I actually hear year after year is oftentimes the thing that sticks out the most, it isn't necessarily just the project, it isn't necessarily like the hard skill training. It's people saying every single week during our team check-ins, someone shared an affirmation with me. I felt more seen. It's people saying, you know, I didn't expect that we were gonna do a three hour training. That was just about why it's so important [00:24:00] to ask for help and why that can be so, so difficult for, um, for queer and trans young folks. It's folks saying, you know, even speaking for myself actually. I remember being a summer organizer and one of, uh, my close friends now one of our elders, Vince spoke on a panel for us and, talked about what it was like to be young during the height of the hiv aids crisis, you know, when the government was neglecting to care for folks and so many members of our community were dying without care, were, were passing away without support. And all of the lessons that Vince took from that time holds now, decades later that still make him feel more hopeful, more committed, more full as a person. Um, that meant so much to me to hear when I was 21 and, still feeling really scared and really lonely, about the future. So I think it's those, I, I wouldn't even call them like softer skills, but the [00:25:00] incredible st. Sturdiness and resilience that building long-term relationships creates that seeing people who show you a potential path, if it's been hard to imagine the future. And that building the skills that make relationships more resilient. I feel like it's those things that always stand out the most to a lot of our young people. And then to me, I see them grow in it and be challenged by those things every single year. I feel really good. 'cause I know that at the end of the summer organizer program, there's a group of young, queer and trans API rising leaders who are gonna bring that level of rigorous kindness, attentive attentiveness to emotions, um, of vulnerability that creates more honesty and interdependence. They're gonna be taking that to an another organization, to another environment, to another year in our movement. That makes me feel really happy and hopeful.  Miata Tan: Yes. Community.  Yuan Wang: Yeah.  Miata Tan: . [00:26:00] Looking towards that bright future that you, you shared just now Tina Shelf is coming on as the executive director. What are your hopes for 2026 Yuan Wang: yeah. You know, I'm, I'm so excited that we're welcoming Tina and we're really lucky because Tina joined us in August of this year. So we've had a good, like five months to overlap with each other and to really, um, for all of us, not just me, but our staff, our members, to really welcome and support Tina in onboarding to the role. I feel incredibly excited for Lavender Phoenix's future. I think that in this next year, on one hand, our Care Knock Cops campaign, which has been a huge focus of the organization where uh, we've been rallying other organizations and people across San Francisco to fight to direct funding from policing to. To protect funding that's being threatened every year for housing, for healthcare, for human services that people really [00:27:00] need. I think we're gonna see that campaign grow and there are so many members and staff who are rigorously working on that every single day. And on the other hand, I think that this is a time for Lavender Phoenix to really sturdy itself. We are in we're approaching, the next stage of an authoritarian era that we've been getting ready for many years and is in other ways as so many folks are saying new and unprecedented. So I think, um, a lot of our work in this next year is actually making sure that our members' relationships to each other are stronger, making sure that, responsibility, is shared in, in, in greater ways that encourage more and more leadership and growth throughout our membership so that we are more resilient and less res reliant on smaller and smaller groups of people. I think you're gonna see our program and campaign work continue to be impactful. And I'm really hopeful that when we talk again, maybe in two years, three years, five years, we're gonna be [00:28:00] looking at an organization that's even more resilient and even more connected internally.  Miata Tan: It's really important that y'all are thinking so long term, I guess, and have been preparing for this moment in many ways. On a personal note, as you are coming to an end as executive director, what's what's next for you? I'd love to know.  Yuan Wang: Yeah, that's such a sweet question. I'm going to, I'm gonna rest for a little bit. Yeah. I haven't taken a sustained break from organizing since I was 18 or so. So it's been a while and I'm really looking forward to some rest and reflection. I think from there. I'm gonna figure out, what makes sense for me in terms of being involved with movement and I'm, I'm certain that one of those things will be staying involved. Lavender Phoenix as a member. Really excited to keep supporting our campaign work. Really excited to keep supporting the organization as a whole just from a role that I've never had as a volunteer member. So, I'm just psyched for that and I can't [00:29:00] wait to be a part of Lavender Phoenix's future in this different way.  Miata Tan: Have fun. You'll be like on the other side almost. Yeah,  Yuan Wang: totally. Totally. And, and getting to see and support our incredible staff team just in a different way.  Miata Tan: One final question As you are sort of moving into this next stage, and this idea of community and base building being so incredibly important to your work and time with Lavender Phoenix, is there anything you'd like to say, I guess for someone who might be considering. Joining in some way or Yeah. Where they could get involved, but they're not, not quite sure. Yuan Wang: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think that if you are a queer and trans, API person who is looking for community, um, looking to channel what you care about into action, looking to be with other people who care about you Lavender Phoenix is here. [00:30:00] And I think that there is no more critical time. Than the one we're in to get activated and to try to organize. ‘Cause our world really needs us right now. The world needs all of us and it also really needs the wisdom, the experience, and the love of queer and trans people. So, I will be rejoining our membership at some point and I'd really like to meet you and I hope that we get to, to grow in this work and to, um, to fight for our freedom together. Miata Tan: Thank you so much. We, this was a really lovely conversation.  Yuan Wang: Yeah, thank you so much And also welcome Tina. Good luck. [00:31:00] [00:32:00] [00:33:00]  Miata Tan: That was the Love by Jason Chu, featuring Fuzzy. If you're just joining us, you are tuned into APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and [00:34:00] online@kpfa.org. I am your host, Miata Tan, and today we are joined by the Lavender Phoenix team at a transitional point in the organization's story. Our next guest is Tina Shauf-Bajar, the incoming director of this local organization, supporting queer and trans Asian and Pacific Islander Youth. As a reminder throughout this conversation, you'll hear us referring to the org as both Lavender, Phoenix and Lani.     Miata Tan: Hi Tina. Tina Shauf-Bajar: Hi Miata.  Miata Tan: How you going today? Tina Shauf-Bajar: I'm doing well, thank you. How are you? Miata Tan: Yeah, not so bad. Just excited to speak with you. tell me more about yourself what's bringing you into Lavender Phoenix. Tina Shauf-Bajar: Sure, sure. Well I am the incoming executive director of Lavender Phoenix. Prior to this, I was working at the California Domestic Workers Coalition [00:35:00] and had also worked at the Filipino Community Center and, um, have done some grassroots organizing, building, working class power, um, over the last 20 years, of my time in the Bay Area. And I've been alongside Lavender Phoenix as an organization that I've admired for a long time. Um, and now at the beginning of this year, I was I had the opportunity to apply for this executive director position and talked with un, um, had a series of conversations with UN about, um, what this role looks like and I got really excited about being a part of this organization. Miata Tan: That's super cool. So you, you, you weren't quite in the space with Lavender Phoenix, but moving alongside them through your work, like what were what were the organizations that you were part of when you were, were working in tandem, I guess. Tina Shauf-Bajar: Well the organization that I feel like is most, most closely, relates with Lavender. Phoenix is, [00:36:00] um, Gabriela, which is a Filipino organization. It's a Filipino organization that's a part of a national democratic movement of the Philippines. And we advance national democracy in the Philippines. And, liberation for our people and our homeland. Sovereignty for our homeland. And Gabriela here in the US does organizing with other multi-sectoral organizations, including like migrant organizations, like Ante and youth organizations like Naan and we organize in diaspora. And the reason for that is because many of our families actually leave the Philippines due to, um, corrupt government governance, um, also like foreign domination and exploitation and plunder of our resources. And so many of us actually have to leave our countries to, to survive. And so we're still very connected. Gabriela is still very connected to, [00:37:00] um, the movement in the Philippines. And yeah, so we're advancing liberation for our people and have been alongside Lavender Phoenix for many years. And here we are. Miata Tan: That's beautiful. I love hearing about, all of these partnerships and, and colLavoration works that happen in the San Francisco Bay Area and, and beyond as well. it sounds like you're speaking from a personal place when you talk about, um, a lot of these immigrant communities. Could you speak more to your family background and what brings you into this? Tina Shauf-Bajar: The, the fight for immigrant justice? So I was born in the Philippines and um, I spent my childhood and adolescent since the, in the South Bay of LA and then came here to the Bay Area in the year 2000. Flashing back to when my parents immigrated here, my dad's family first came to the US um, by way of the Bay Area in the late sixties and [00:38:00] early seventies. My dad actually was a few years after he had arrived, was uh, drafted into the military so that they can send him to Vietnam, but instead of going to Vietnam, he took the test to go into the Air Force and traveled everywhere in the Air Force and ended up in the Philippines and met my, met my mom there. And so. That became like they got married and they had me, I was born in the Philippines. I have a younger sibling. And, um, and I think, um, growing up in, in a working class immigrant neighborhood black and brown neighborhood, um, it was always important to me to like find solidarity between. Between communities. I actually grew up in a neighborhood that didn't have a lot of Filipinos in it, but I, I felt that solidarity knowing that we were an immigrant family, immigrant, working class family. And when I was in [00:39:00] college, when I went to college up in, in Berkeley, um, that was the time when the war on Iraq was waged by the US. I got really I got really curious and interested in understanding why war happens and during that time I, I feel like I, I studied a lot in like ethnic studies classes, Asian American studies classes and also, got involved in like off campus organizing and um, during that time it was with the Filipinos for Global Justice Not War Coalition. I would mobilize in the streets, in the anti-war movement during that time. Um, and from there I met a lot of the folks in the national democratic movement of the Philippines and eventually joined an organization which is now known as Gabriela. And so. That was my first political home that allowed me to understand my family's experience as [00:40:00] immigrants and why it's important to, to advance our rights and defend our, defend our people. And also with what's happening now with the escalated violence on our communities it. It's our duty to help people understand that immigrants are not criminals and our people work really hard to, to provide for our families and that it's our human right to be able to work and live in dignity, uh, just like anyone else. Miata Tan: You are speaking to something really powerful there. The different communities that you've been involved with, within the Filipino diaspora, but who are some other immigrant folks that you feel like have really helped shape your political awakening and, and coming into this space, and also how that leads into your work with Lav Nix today?  Tina Shauf-Bajar: When I was working at the Filipino [00:41:00] community center that gave me a, gave me a chance to learn to work with other organizations that were also advancing, like workers' rights and immigrant rights. Many centers in San Francisco that, um, work with immigrant workers who. Wouldn't typically like fall into the category of union unionized workers. They were like workers who are work in the domestic work industry who are caregivers, house cleaners and also we worked with organizations that also have organized restaurant workers, hotel workers. In like non-union, in a non-union setting. And so to me I in integrating in community like that, it helped me really understand that there were many workers who were experiencing exploitation at really high levels. And that reregulate like regulation of, um, Lavor laws and things like that, it's like really. [00:42:00] Unregulated industries that really set up immigrant workers in, in really poor working conditions. Sometimes abusive conditions and also experiencing wage theft. And for me, that really moved me and in my work with Gabriela and the community and the Filipino Community Center, we were able to work with, um. Teachers who actually were trafficked from the Philippines. These teachers actually, they did everything right to try to get to the, the US to get teaching jobs. And then they ended up really paying exorbitant amount of, of money to like just get processed and make it to the us. To only find themselves in no teaching jobs and then also working domestic work jobs just to like survive. And so during that time, it really like raised my consciousness to understand that there was something bigger that wa that was happening. The, [00:43:00] the export of our people and exploitation of our people was happening, not just at a small scale, but I learned over time that. Thousands of Filipinos actually leave the Philippines every day just to find work and send money back to their families. And to me that just was like throughout my time being an activist and organizer it was important to me to like continue to, to like advance poor, working class power. And that I see that as a through line between many communities. And I know that like with my work in Lav Nix that the folks who experience it the most and who are most impacted by right-wing attacks and authoritarianism are people who are at the fringes. And born working class trans and queer people. Within our [00:44:00] sector. So yeah. Being rooted in this, in this principle of advancing foreign working class power is really core to my to my values in any work that I do. Miata Tan: What are some other key issue Areas you see that are facing this community and especially queer folks within Asian American communities today? Tina Shauf-Bajar: The administration that we're under right now works really hard to drive wedges between. All of us and, um, sewing division is one of the t tactics to continue to hoard power. And with Lavender Phoenix being a trans and queer API organization that's building power, it's important for us to understand that solidarity is a thing that that's gonna strengthen us. That that trans and queer folks are used as wedges in, in [00:45:00] conservative thinking. I'm not saying that like it's just conservatives, but there's conservative thinking in many of our cultures to think that trans and queer folks are not, are not human, and that we deserve less and we don't deserve to be recognized as. As fully human and deserve to live dignified lives in our full selves. I also know that locally in San Francisco, the API community is used as a wedge to be pitted against other communities. Let's say the black commun the black community. And, um, it's important for us as an organization to recognize that that we, we can position ourselves to like wield more solidarity and be in solidarity with, with communities that are experiencing the impacts of a system that continues to exploit our people and [00:46:00] continues to view our people as not fully deserving. Not fully human and that our people deserve to be detained, abducted, and deported. That our people deserve to not be taken care of and resourced and not have our basic needs like housing and food and healthcare and it impacts all of us. And so, I see our responsibility as Lavender Phoenix, and, and in the other organizing spaces that I'm a part of that it, it is our responsibility to expose that we are not each other's enemies. Hmm. And that we are stronger in fighting for our needs and our dignity together. Miata Tan: Community. [00:47:00] Community and strength. I'm thinking about what you said in terms of this, the API solidarity alongside queer folks, alongside black and brown folks. Do you have a, perhaps like a nice memory of that, that coming together? Tina Shauf-Bajar: So one of the most consistent, things that I would go to, that's, that Lavender Phoenix would, would lead year after year in the last 10 years is Trans March. And my partner and I always make sure that we mobilize out there and be with Laxs. And it's important to us to be out there. in more recent trans marches. Just with a lot of the escalation of violence in Gaza and ongoing genocide and also just the escalated attacks on on immigrants and increased right and increased ice raids. [00:48:00] And and also the, we can't forget the police, the Police killings of black people. And I feel like at Trans March with Lavender Phoenix, it's also a way for us to come together and you know, put those messages out there and show that we are standing with all these different communities that are fighting, repression, And it's always so joyful at Trans March too. We're like chanting and we're holding up our signs. We're also out there with or you know, people, individuals, and organizations that might not be politically aligned with us, but that's also a chance for us to be in community and, and show demonstrate this solidarity between communities. Miata Tan: It's so beautiful to see. It's, it's just like what a colorful event in so many ways. Uh, as you now step into the director role at Lav [00:49:00] Nix, Lavender Phoenix, what are you most excited about? What is 2026 gonna look like for you? Tina Shauf-Bajar: I am most excited about integrating into this organization fully as the executive director and I feel so grateful that this organization is trusting me to lead alongside them. I've had the chance to have conversations with lots of conversations since, since my time onboarding in August through our meetings and also like strategy sessions where I've been able to connect with staff and members and understand what they care about, how they're thinking about. Our our strategy, how we can make our strategy sharper and more coordinated, um, so that we can show up in, in a more unified way, um, not just as an organization, but, but as a part of a larger movement ecosystem that we're a part of [00:50:00] and that we're in solidarity with other organizations in. So I am looking forward to like really embodying that.  it takes a lot of trust for an organization to be like, look, you, you weren't one of our members. You weren't a part of our staff prior to this, but we are trusting you because we've been in community and relationship with you and we have seen you. And so I just feel really grateful for that. Miata Tan: For an organization like Lav Nix, which with such a rich history in, in the Bay Area is there anything from. That history that you are now taking into 2026 with you? Tina Shauf-Bajar: Yeah, I mean, I think in seeing how Lavender Phoenix has transformed over the last 10 years is really not being afraid to transform. Not being afraid to step even more fully into [00:51:00] our power. The organization is really well positioned to yeah, well positioned to build power in, in a larger community. And so I, I feel like I've seen that transformation and I get to also, I get to also continue that legacy after UN and also the previous leaders before that and previous members and staff, um, we stand on the, on their shoulders. I stand on their shoulders. it's so beautiful, like such a nice image. Everyone together, yeah, no, totally. I mean, just in the last few weeks, I, I've connected with the three executive directors before me. And so when I say. I stand on their shoulders and like I'm a part of this lineage I still have access to. And then I've also been able to connect with, you know with a movement elder just last week where I was like, wow, you know, I get [00:52:00] to be a part of this because I'm now the executive director of this organization. Like, I also get to inherit. Those connections and I get to inherit the work that has been done up to this point. And I feel really grateful and fortunate to be inheriting that and now being asked to take care of it so. and I know I'm not alone. I think that's what people keep saying. It's like, you're not, you know, you're not alone. Right. I'm like, yeah. I keep telling myself that. It's true. It's true, it's true. Miata Tan: Latinx has a strong core team and a whole range of volunteers that also aid in, in, in your work, and I'm sure everyone will, everyone will be there to make sure that you don't like the, the, the shoulders are stable that you're standing on. Tina Shauf-Bajar: Totally, totally. I mean, even the conversations that I've been a part of, I'm like, I'm the newest one here. Like, I wanna hear from you, [00:53:00] like, what, how are you thinking about this? There is so much desire to see change and be a part of it. And also so much brilliance like and experience to being a part of this organization. So yeah, absolutely. I'm not alone. Miata Tan: One final question as with youth really being at the center of, of Lav Nix's work. Is there something about that that you're excited just, just to get into next year and, and thinking about those, those young people today that are you know, maybe not quite sure what's going on, the world looks a little scary. Like what, what can, what are you excited about in terms of helping those, those folks? Tina Shauf-Bajar: Well, for a long time I, I worked with youth years ago before I before I found myself in like workers justice and workers' rights building working class power. I also worked with working class [00:54:00] youth at one point, and I, I was one of those youth like 20 years ago. And so, I know what my energy was like during that time. I also know how I also remember how idealistic I was and I remember how bright-eyed it was. And like really just there wasn't openness to learn and understand how I could also be an agent of change and that I didn't have to do that alone. That I could be a part of something bigger than myself. And so so yeah, I think that like wielding the power of the youth in our communities and the different sectors is I think in a lot of ways they're the ones leaving us, they know, they know what issues speak to, to them. This is also the world they're inheriting. they have the energy to be able to like and lived experience to be able to like, see through change in their lifetime. And you know, I'm, [00:55:00] I'm older than them. I'm older than a lot of them, but, I also can remember, like I, I can look back to that time and I know, I know that I had the energy to be able to like, you know, organize and build movement and, and really see myself as, as a, as someone who could be a part of that. My first week here in, in August I actually was able to, to meet the, the, um, summer organizer, the summer organizers from our program. And I was, it just warms my heart because I remember being that young and I remember, remember being that like determined to like figure out like, what is my place in, in organizing spaces. So they were the ones who really like, radically welcomed me at first. You know, like I came into the office and like we were co-working and they were the ones who radically welcomed me and like showed me how they show up in, in, um, [00:56:00] Lav Nix Spaces. I learned from them how to fundraise, like how Lavender Phoenix does it, how we fundraise. And um, one of them fundraised me and I was like, I was like, how can I say no? Like they yeah. That we need that type of energy to keep it fresh. Miata Tan: something about that that, um. It is exciting to think about when thinking about the future. Thank you so much for joining us, Tina. This was such a beautiful conversation. I'm so excited for all of your work. Tina Shauf-Bajar: Thank you so much.  Miata Tan: That was Tina Shauf-Bajar, the incoming executive director at Lavender Phoenix. You can learn more about the organization and their fantastic work at LavenderPhoenix.org. We thank all of you listeners out there, and in the words of Keiko Fukuda, a Japanese American judoka and Bay Area legend, “be strong, be [00:57:00] gentle, be beautiful”. A little reminder for these trying times. For show notes, please check our website at kpfa.org/program/APEX-express. APEX Express is a collective of activists that includes Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by me, Miata Tan. Get some rest y'all. Good night. The post APEX Express – 12.25.25 -A Conversation with Lavender Phoenix: The Next Chapter appeared first on KPFA.

learn how to express location and talk about people's presence in a particular place

Here are today's top stories on SBS Filipino. - Alamin ang pinakamainit na balita ngayong Huwebes sa SBS Filipino.

Here are today's top stories on SBS Filipino. - Alamin ang pinakamainit na balita ngayong Biyernes sa SBS Filipino.

Despite living in Australia for eight years and becoming an Australian citizen, Denny Geronimo Jr. from Melbourne makes it a point to return to the Philippines every Christmas, saying the Filipino way of celebrating the season is unmatched. - Kahit walong taon nang naninirahan sa Australia at isa nang Australian citizen, pinipili pa rin ni Denny Geronimo Jr. na umuwi ng Pilipinas tuwing Pasko dahil para sa kanya, walang kapantay ang Paskong Pinoy, lalo na kung walang kamag-anak na kapiling sa abroad.

Just when Carmina and Patch thought they've discovered everything they could about Filipino Christmas traditions, they come across Niños Inocentes. And as is true for every other present-day tradition, they found its indigenous roots and the Filipino penchant for simultaneous resistance and humor. Happy Holidays to FilTrip listeners!  Learn more: Beware Ninos Inocentes Day, What is the Feast of the Holy Innocents?, Spooky Christmas Culture, Yawa Yawa Mask of Terror, Pisting Yawa: The Devil who was once a Bisayan Deity, Underneath the Yawa-Yawa Mask, Feast of the Holy Innocents, Día de los Inocentes - Mexico's Answer to April Fools, Why ‘devils' take centerstage in Aklan villages during Christmas, and Historia de las islas e indios de Bisayas.  Visit https://filtrip.buzzsprout.com. Drop a note at thefiltrip@gmail.com. Thanks to FilTrip's sponsor SOLEPACK. Visit thesolepack.com for more details.See https://www.buzzsprout.com/privacy for Privacy Policy.

Honolulu Dep. Fire Chief Jason Samala shares a safety message ahead of the holidays; The Hawaiʻi Community Foundation awards $1.6 million award to assist members of Lahaina's Filipino community affected by wildfires

Lance Katigbak, Principal at BCG Manila, joins Jeremy Au to break down why Filipino households, not individuals, are the true drivers of economic decisions in the Philippines. Drawing from BCG's large scale research on the Filipino family, they explore how family structures shape spending, saving, and borrowing behavior, and why health risk sits at the center of financial anxiety. The conversation covers multi earner and extended households, the role of informal lending, and how overseas Filipino workers remain deeply involved in family decisions from abroad. Lance also explains why most products miss the market by designing for individuals, and how companies can unlock real opportunity by building for the household instead. 03:25 Filipino families fall into six major structures: Nuclear families make up less than half of households, with one earner, dual earner, and multi earner families each representing about a third of the population. 09:07 Informal lenders understand households better than banks: Five six lenders assess family level ability to repay, unlike formal finance that underwrites individuals. 13:01 Debt is driven by medical necessity: Paying off debt is the top priority for the poorest families, with health emergencies as the main trigger for borrowing. 18:35 Overseas Filipino workers anchor household budgets: OFWs send home most of their income and remain actively involved in family decisions through constant communication. 23:17 The Filipino dream centers on family security: Top goals are financial protection against health shocks and starting small stable businesses. 29:16 Spending roles differ by gender: Women often manage savings and budgets while men more often handle investments and hardware purchases. 32:04 Families seek modest upgrades, not luxury: Aspirations focus on stress free groceries, affordable dining out, and daily stability rather than status. Watch, listen or read the full insight at https://www.bravesea.com/blog/lance-katigbak-filipino-money-decisions WhatsApp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VakR55X6BIElUEvkN02e TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jeremyau Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremyauz Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyau LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bravesea Spotify English: https://open.spotify.com/show/4TnqkaWpTT181lMA8xNu0T Bahasa Indonesia: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Vs8t6qPo0eFb4o6zOmiVZ Chinese: https://open.spotify.com/show/20AGbzHhzFDWyRTbHTVDJR Vietnamese: https://open.spotify.com/show/0yqd3Jj0I19NhN0h8lWrK1 YouTube  English: https://www.youtube.com/@JeremyAu?sub_confirmation=1 Apple Podcast  English: https://podcasts.apple.com/sg/podcast/brave-southeast-asia-tech-singapore-indonesia-vietnam/id1506890464 #PhilippineEconomy #FilipinoFamilies #HouseholdDecisions #HealthRisk #OFWLife #FinancialBehavior #EmergingMarkets #FamilyFirst #SEATech #BRAVEpodcast

Stay informed, stay connected — SBS Filipino shares the news and stories that matter to Filipinos in Australia. - Hatid ng SBS Filipino ang mga balita, impormasyon at kwento ng mga Pinoy sa Australia.

Here are today's top stories on SBS Filipino. - Alamin ang pinakamainit na balita ngayong Miyerkules sa SBS Filipino.

Here are today's top stories on SBS Filipino. - Alamin ang pinakamainit na balita ngayong Martes ng umaga sa SBS Filipino

On Usap Tayo, we discussed the different dishes commonly prepared by many Filipinos during Christmas, such as lechon, pancit, and savoury treats including puto bumbong, bibingka and others. Meanwhile, in Australia, because of the hot weather during the Christmas season, chilled cooked prawns are among the most popular dishes served at holiday gatherings. - Sa Usap Tayo, tinalakay natin ang iba't ibang pagkaing madalas ihanda ng maraming Pilipino tuwing Pasko gaya ng lechon, pancit at mga minatamis gaya ng puto bumbong at iba pa. Habang sa Australia, dahil sa init ng panahon kapag Kapaskuhan, malamig na lutong hipon ang isa sa paboritong ihanda.

Stay informed, stay connected — SBS Filipino shares the news and stories that matter to Filipinos in Australia. - Hatid ng SBS Filipino ang mga balita, impormasyon at kwento ng mga Pinoy sa Australia.

In this episode, Junior shares the inspiring story behind Pinoy Musika, a groundbreaking musical project created during his time working in Filipino radio. This album, a blend of his original English-language songs and compositions by one of Hawaii's most respected Filipino songwriters, was more than just music; it became a piece of history in the making. Pinoy Musika became the first Filipino music compilation available in a major retail store in Hawaii, debuting at none other than Sam Goody's.At the heart of this story is Junior's unwavering commitment to one thing: living his dreams. If it's not a part of something he once dreamed about, he doesn't pursue it, and recording producer was one of those dreams. His reasoning is simple: life is short, so why not live your dreams? But dreaming big comes with its own set of challenges, especially in the beginning. The struggle before the success is what tests your resolve. Junior's story reminds us that if you keep going, you eventually reach the part where the dream becomes reality.Being an innovator requires courage and vision. Even if things don't turn out exactly how you imagined, thinking big always takes you further than playing small. The Pinoy Musika project not only uplifted a community through representation but also instilled pride, confidence, and a legacy in every performer who participated. Today, their music lives on forever on iTunes, a lasting tribute to their voices and their heritage.Junior's life-path has always been teaching — even when he tried to run from it. Whether it's inspiring people to honor their culture, recognize their gifts, or finding their voice in life, he continues to teach through action. This episode is a celebration of cultural pride, creative vision, and living with purpose.If you'd like to work with Junior, visit www.hereforyoulifecoaching.com or email him at junior@hereforyoulifecoaching.com.Here For You Life Coaching is a Voicemaster Enterprises LLC company. All rights reserved. © 2025

Stay informed, stay connected — SBS Filipino shares the news and stories that matter to Filipinos in Australia. - Hatid ng SBS Filipino ang mga balita, impormasyon at kwento ng mga Pinoy sa Australia.

Playlist: mabuhay singers - sa paskong daratingFreddie aguilar - ang pasko ay sumapitjoey albert - noche buenamabuhay singers - paskong anong sayafreddie aguilar - pasko na nmang mulisiakol - maligayang paskoapo hiking society - lata lang ang aming tambolmabuhay singers - kampana ng simbahanfreddie aguilar - pasko na namanjose mari chan - christmas in our hearts

"The Budots Three" showcase the thrilling sound of Filipino dance music. If you were on TikTok in the summer of 2024, there is a good chance you heard "Emergency Budots (Paging Doctor Beat)." The DJ Johnrey track spread fast, soundtracking countless dance clips, and just as quickly sparked a wave of corrections. Budots, viewers were told, wasn't new. And most people weren't dancing it right. To understand Budots, DJ Love, DJ Danz and DJ Ericnem are a useful starting point. The three producers have been making Budots music since the early 2000s, developing the genre largely outside formal club infrastructure, and across the trio's RA Mix, the genre's playful character comes into focus. Bouncy like a ball, it's primary elements are clipped vocal samples, pitched-up synth hooks and tightly looped rhythms. Heard in full, RA.1018 plays out as an hour-long joyride, making it difficult to square the music's buoyancy with Budots' earlier local associations with disorder and crime. DJ Love has been central to reframing Budots, positioning it as a form of release for the working-class neighbourhoods he calls home. "People fight in the slums," he told The Face. "I wanted to turn that energy into enjoyment." RA.1018 offers a glimpse into that world. Working collectively as The Budots Three—extra points if you catch the nod to a certain pioneering Detroit outfit—Love, Danz and Ericnem showcase the richness beyond TikTok's compressed snapshots. Across the hour, the mix moves between classic Budots reworks and newer mutations, tracing both the genre's roots and where it might head next. It's Budots, in full view. Find the tracklist and interview at ra.co/podcast/1037 @easternmargins

Here are today's top stories on SBS Filipino. - Alamin ang pinakamainit na balita ngayong Lunes ng umaga sa SBS Filipino.

Here are today's top stories on SBS Filipino. - Alamin ang pinakamainit na balita ngayong Linggo ng umaga sa SBS Filipino.

The FSC NSW celebrated the Hiraya Ball, attended by over 85 students, graduates, and community leaders, and outgoing president Saira Arias shared her experience as a youth leader. - Ipinagdiwang ng FSC NSW ang Hiraya Ball na dinaluhan ng higit 85 estudyante, graduates, at lider ng komunidad, at ibinahagi ni outgoing president Saira Arias ang kanyang karanasan bilang youth leader.

Here are today's top stories on SBS Filipino. - Alamin ang pinakamainit na balita ngayong Sabado ng umaga sa SBS Filipino.

On this week's Trending Ngayon podcast by SBS Filipino, a group of students in the Philippines has gone viral for their ‘reverse carolling'—instead of asking for Christmas gifts, they go door-to-door singing carols and giving aguinaldos away. Meanwhile in Australia, several Filipino groups are also keeping the tradition of Christmas carolling alive. - Sa Trending Ngayon podcast ng SBS Filipino ngayong linggo, viral ang isang grupo ng mga estudyante sa Pilipinas sa kanilang 'reverse carolling', imbes na mamasko, sila ang namimigay ng pamasko sa mga tahanan at tao na kanilang pinagkarolingan. Sa Australia naman, may ilang grupo din ng mga Pilipino ang gumagawa ng pangangaroling.

What is the Filipino American anthem? Is it Bebot by the Black Eyed Peas? P.T.I. by Carl Angelo? Lemonade by Jeremy Passion? Us by Ruby Ibarra? Do You Miss Me? by Jocelyn Enriquez? Todo Todo by Daniela Romo (you know who chose that one!)?? In this TFAL episode, we look at so-called Filipino American anthems...

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Here are today's top stories on SBS Filipino. - Alamin ang pinakamainit na balita ngayong Biyernes ng umaga sa SBS Filipino

University of Texas-Rio Grande Valley (UTRGV) Percussion Professor Francis Favis stops by to talk about his recent PASIC50 Performance during the New Music/Research session (04:05), his job at UTRGV, the unusual school setup, and mariachi music in south Texas (18:20), growing up in Bloomington Normal (IL), his family's deep musical roots, early memories of playing drumset, marching band years, and working the school's computer help desk at his high school (38:30), attending Illinois State for undergrad (52:30), George Mason University (VA) for his master's (01:01:35), the University of Texas at Austin for his doctorate and the OU/UT football rivalry (01:12:50), his first job at Tarleton State University (TX) (01:28:45), and finishes with the Random Ass Questions, including segments on performance, great Filipino food, great and terrible movies, science fiction books and movies, Radiohead, and the dangers of turning pages (01:35:30).Finishing with a Rave of appreciation of the life of musician Raul Malo (02:01:40).Francis Favis links:Francis Favis' Innovative Percussion PagePrevious Podcast Guests mentioned:Megan Arns in 2017Julia Gaines-Montag in 2016Troy Hall in 2020Clif Walker in 2021Andy Bliss in 2023Gary Westbrook in 2017Ivan Trevino in 2022Tom Burritt in 2021Marco Schirripa in 2022Andy Harnsberger in 2022Ben Charles in 2017Bonnie Whiting in 2020Other Links:Nief-NorfCaroline Vaughan-RichardsSophie MathieuMayke NasWouter SnoeiMark RamirezUTRGV facultyJohn KilkennyTony EdwardsAngelo Favis“Immigrant Song” - Led ZeppelinSchool of Rock trailer“The National Anthem” - Radiohead“Believer” = Imagine DragonsPioneer Drum and Bugle CorpsCavaliers 2016 Indoor “Lost Boys”“Shadow Chasers” - Michael BurrittLost tv soundtracksDavid Collier“Fractalia” - Owen Clayton CondonMatt JamesJonathan BisesiJohn Spirtas“Reflections on the Nature of Water” - Jacob Druckman“Burritt Variations” - Alejandro Viñao“Mirage” - Yasuo SueyoshiJerry JunkinBlade Runner 2049 trailerRubber trailerDune - Frank HerbertThe Martian Chronicles - Ray BradburyI, Robot - Isaac Asimov“Crazy” - Le SserafimIn Rainbows - RadioheadThe Bends - RadioheadMonster - R.E.M.Christopher O'Riley Plays RadioheadTransplanted Roots Percussion Research SymposiumRaves:Trampoline - The MavericksAll Night Live, Volume 1 - The Mavericks

Three hundred episodes! Can you believe it?? How did we get here? What an amazing feat! Never did I ever imagine that I would have a podcast let alone release 300 episodes! To celebrate, I have invited my writer-friends and fellow Pinays, Rebecca Mabanglo-Mayor and Tamiko Nimura! In this episode, we talk about what has kept us steady and tethered during this year of upheavals and drastic change. With the new moon and the winter solstice approaching this weekend, we also talked about what seeds we want to plant for the coming season and new year. Bring a cup of tea and tune in to this episode to feel uplifted by listening in on a chat with good friends. Here's to 300!Tamiko Nimura's forthcoming book, A Place For What We Lose, is due out April 28, 2026 from University of Washington Press. Pre-order your copy today and take advantage of their 40% off sale! Go here: https://uwapress.uw.edu/book/9780295754758/a-place-for-what-we-lose/ ===============Today's poems/ Books mentioned:Tarot/Oracle Card: Three of Swords (Reversed)"Samadhi" by Vikus Menon=============== Courses / Exclusive Content / Book Mentioned:Subscribe to mailing list + community: suryagian.com/subscribe and get the 7-day meditation challenge, “Spark Joy in Chaos”Subscribe to “Adventures in Midlife” newsletter: leslieann.substack.comInstagram: @leslieannhobayan Email: leslieann@suryagian.comYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxAeQWRRsSo5E7PBJdZUeoEAYXnAtuyRyKundalini Yoga Classes: https://www.suryagian.com/anchor-amplify-kundaliniSpeak Your Truth: https://www.suryagian.com/speak-your-truth About Tamiko NimuraTamiko is an award-winning creative nonfiction writer, community journalist, editor, and educator with experience in higher education, the arts, public history, and Asian American communities. Her forthcoming memoir, A Place for What We Lose: A Daughter's Return to Tule Lake, will be published by the University of Washington Press.She is the author of Rosa Franklin: A Life in Health Care, Public Service, and Social Justice (Washington State Legislative Oral History Program, 2019) and co-author of We Hereby Refuse: Japanese American Acts of Wartime Resistance (Chin Music Press/Wing Luke Museum, 2021).For eight years, Tamiko coached writing and literature students across a wide range of academic and non-academic settings. Since leaving academia in 2011, she has expanded her work to include public history, social media support, blogging, grant writing, and writing for newspapers and magazines.For more than a decade, she has written a commissioned monthly essay series on Japanese American history, arts, and culture for Discover Nikkei, with a focus on the Pacific Northwest and Washington State.Her areas of specialization include diversity and equity, higher education, Japanese American history, writing and editing, grant writing, publishing, food writing, proofreading, and Asian American issues.===============About Rebecca Mabanglo-MayorRebecca Mabanglo-Mayor's non-fiction, poetry, and short fiction have appeared in print and online in several journals and anthologies including Katipunan Literary Magazine, Growing Up Filipino II: More Stories for Young Adults, Kuwento: Small Things, and Beyond Lumpia, Pansit, and Seven Manangs Wild: An Anthology. Her poetry chapbook Pause Mid-Flight was released in 2010. She is also the co-editor of True Stories: The Narrative Project Vol. I-IV, and her poetry and essays have been collected in Dancing Between Bamboo Poles. She has been performing as a storyteller since 2006 and specializes in stories based on Filipino folktales and Filipino-American history.Rebecca, as Rebecca A. Saxton, received her MFA in Creative Writing from Pacific Lutheran University in 2012, her BA in Humanities from Washington State University in 1998, and her MA degree in English with honors from Western Washington University in 2003.

What if you could turn customer anxiety into confidence and boost conversions with just a few simple design changes? Today we talk about understanding user behavior through data science, and how it can dramatically improve your digital marketing strategy. Join me for a captivating conversation with Mia Umanos, founder of Clickvoyant, where she uncovers the magic behind data science and human behavior. Mia's expertise lies in understanding the nuances of user experience—how design choices and website interactions can trigger emotions that either lead to a sale or a lost customer. In this episode, Mia shares her entrepreneurial journey, discusses how AI is revolutionizing data science, and offers powerful insights into how businesses can create better digital experiences by connecting with customers on a deeper level. Here are the highlights: -Humanizing Digital Experiences: The discussion on how understanding the psychological impact of website design can either reduce anxiety or create friction for users. -The Harvard vs. Yale Example: A compelling comparison of how Harvard's emotional approach to financial aid pages contrasts with Yale's utilitarian design, highlighting the power of connecting with users. -The Role of Subtle Design Tweaks in E-Commerce: Mia shares how simple adjustments—like addressing shipping concerns—can help boost conversion rates in online stores. -The Pitfalls of Over-Automation: An example of how a client's decision to enable multiple upsells at checkout led to a significant decrease in conversions, emphasizing the importance of thoughtful automation. -AI and Mid-Market Businesses: Mia explains how AI can help mid-market businesses gain access to powerful data science tools, previously reserved for larger corporations, to improve customer insights and decision-making. About the guest:  Mia Umanos is a Filipino-American entrepreneur, AI strategist, and data scientist, known for her innovative work in AI-driven marketing analytics and conversion rate optimization. As the CEO and founder of Clickvoyant, an AI-powered analytics platform, Mia transforms raw data into actionable insights, enabling businesses to make informed decisions faster. With over 16 years of experience, Mia has worked with major brands like Apple, Salesforce, and Netflix, and raised $1.4 million in six months while pregnant. She advises companies on integrating AI to enhance human creativity and business growth. Named a Tory Burch Fellow in 2024, Mia is also a passionate advocate for women in AI, particularly from her Filipino heritage, and ensures her company provides flexible, remote jobs to women in the Philippines. Through her work, she aims to create opportunities, equity, and lasting impact. Connect with Mia: Website: https://clickvoyant.com/  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/miaumanos/  Connect with Allison: Feedspot has named Disruptive CEO Nation as one of the Top 25 CEO Podcasts on the web, and it is ranked the number 6 CEO podcast to listen to in 2025! https://podcasts.feedspot.com/ceo_podcasts/  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allisonsummerschicago/  Website: https://www.disruptiveceonation.com/   #CEO #leadership #startup #founder #business #businesspodcast  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Struggles with Self-Worth: Rosalie's Journey from Abuse to Healing Through Faith In this episode host Diana welcomes Rosalie Janelle, host of 'The Good News' podcast, to share her powerful survivor story. Rosalie opens up about her journey from an abusive relationship to finding faith and beginning her healing process through therapy and a closer relationship with God. The discussion covers Rosalie's background, the signs of abuse, the harrowing experiences she endured, and how she was ultimately saved, both physically and spiritually. This episode aims to provide hope and encouragement to those in abusive situations, emphasizing the importance of faith, support systems, and professional help. 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:47 Welcome to the Podcast 01:26 Introducing Today's Guest: Rosalie Janelle 02:31 Rosalie's Background and Upbringing 04:42 College Years and Faith Struggles 07:21 Entering an Abusive Relationship 09:40 Escalation of Abuse 18:16 Struggles with Self-Worth and Infidelity 19:40 A Violent Turning Point 23:39 Realization and Rock Bottom 24:27 The Violent Incident 26:10 Aftermath and Legal Proceedings 26:56 Spiritual Awakening 30:39 Healing Journey 35:19 Therapy and EMDR 40:30 Advice for Those in Abusive Situations 43:31 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Website: www.thegoodnewspodcast.org Email: genaor@gmail.com Social media links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Rosellygenao Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zealouzlysweet/ My podcast: The Good News Podcast www.thegoodnewspodcast.org Available on Anchor, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Breaker, Google Podcasts, Pocket Cast, Radio Public Bio: Roselly Genao is a podcast host, spiritual coach and an operations supervisor in the emergency services industry. Roselly has been serving God faithfully since November 2019, shortly after she survived a traumatic attack on her life. Roselly's affinity is drawing people nearer to Christ through encouragement and inspiration. She currently is the host of The Good News Podcast and is a certified emotional first aide provider. With these means she helps bring people closer to God daily in conjunction with serving God.   Website: https://dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/ [00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels. They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana . She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hello everyone. How are you doing ? I'm glad you joined me today on my podcast. We have a survivor story today. I think you'll be really blessed by her story. Rosalie. Janelle is on the show today. And I hope that you'll listen closely to what she has to share with you. She's the host of the Good News podcast. She's going to bring a raw and honest story of how she got into an abusive relationship and how she got out, how she found the Lord, and how she has started her healing journey. So without [00:02:00] further ado, here's Rosalie. Welcome, Rosalie Janelle to the show. Thank you so much for coming on. No problem. I'm happy to be here. Diana, thank you for inviting me on. Now the tables are turned , you're in the guest chair today? Yes. My first time too, so I'm not used to it. I was just on her podcast, the Good News podcast. Mm-hmm. And uh, that's what podcasters do. We go on each other's shows. Yes. Amen. Absolutely. I'm happy to be here. So tell the audience a little bit about your fine self. Yes, absolutely. So as Diana mentioned, my name is Rosalie Genow. I go by Rose, by trade. I'm a manager of an operation center. And, by night I'm a podcast host of the Good News podcast and, full-time. I'm a believer for Jesus. I love, spreading the gospel, talking to others about the gospel, and what he has done in my life. So that's why I'm here. Awesome. So let's start from the [00:03:00] beginning. What was your family upbringing like? Were you raised in a Christian home? Oh, this question from the beginning. I wasn't, I was raised in a Catholic home. And I say that very loosely because my parents weren't practicing when I was growing up. They mostly like practice, up until the point I was born. And then I got baptized as a baby into the Catholic. Church. But I still went to Catholic school, so we weren't practicing at home, but I went to Catholic school, so that kind of shaped, you know, gave me a little bit of foundation as I was growing up. But weirdly enough, I still, I didn't know God and not when I was younger. So what was, your home like growing up? I mean, it was typical. I don't think that it was, abnormal. I had both my parents, I have, I'm one of three, I have two siblings and I. I don't know. I don't, I wouldn't say it was atypical. It was a loving home. I was involved in a lot of extracurricular activities growing up in [00:04:00] school. I was, involved in, pretty much every group that you could think of. I was a good academic kid. My siblings, they did, have their children, a little on the younger side, so. Towards like my teenage years, I was growing up in the home alone. 'Cause my siblings moved out and started their families. And at that point in time when I was a teenager, I was a little bit of a, I was trouble, I was definitely trouble. I was not making great decisions. I started dating really young. Oh gosh. Probably younger than I should have. And, I think that really started, in my early college years, I really started to make some pretty bad decisions. So it started in my teenage years. So when you went off to college, you said that you had a collapse of your faith. What was your relationship with God like then in your life? Yeah, when I got to college, I wasn't really practicing any kind of religion or [00:05:00] even praying to God. My life was, like I said, I started a tr a path on my life where I was making da bad decisions almost daily. Now looking back, I think it was, the lack of having a relationship with God. But I would say that in the beginning of my college career, I had no relationship with God. I actually was very confused, because I had graduated from a Catholic, high school, and then I went to a Catholic university and I was seeking answers. So I was going to the Catholic mass, almost weekly, but it was kind of like just going through the motions of my, that was in the first year of my, of. The first semester of college and then I went to a girlfriend's church. And it was a non-denominational Christian Church, probably second semester of freshman year. And, that kind of started to change my perspective. On, God and who he was and who Jesus is because, it was so different than the Catholic church. So, mm-hmm. It sparked us an interest, but I would [00:06:00] say not enough for me to do anything about it. Not at the time. Yeah. I can relate. I was raised Catholic. I know it means to go through the motions on the outside and nothing happening on the inside really. So you mentioned you made some bad choices in life. Why do you think that happened? I mean, for me at the time there was definitely, I was definitely going through a lot of stuff, just on the inside because I didn't have any kind of foundation. I didn't have any, belief and a higher power at that point in time. So I kind of saw life for what it was. It felt worthless, it felt like, so I made some pretty bad choices based off that root feeling of just feeling like, you know, there was no purpose for life. And I actually fell into depression. And during college, I was mixed up in bad relationships, through college. And then ultimately I ended up dropping out of college because. I was just making horrible decisions. I was partying all night and all of those things stemmed from the fact that I [00:07:00] viewed life as purposeless and therefore I didn't give myself enough self-worth. Mm-hmm. So, mm-hmm. So it sounds like you were prime target for an abusive relationship that you got into. Would you be able to talk about that? Were there any red flags beforehand? Yeah. So, let's backtrack a little bit. Mm-hmm. So, after college, I actually, was with, a man who was semi abusive. Like we, we had really toxic, arguments. There was a once or twice where there was, physical fights between him and I. And ultimately when I left college, I walked away from that, you know? Mm-hmm. And I left college and I had to move back to Massachusetts. So I went to Seton Hall in New Jersey. And obviously after dropping out and not being able to afford living in New Jersey by myself, I was 20. I had to come back home to Massachusetts. And so when I did come back home to Massachusetts, I kinda just walked away from that relationship in college and I thought that, I didn't [00:08:00] think anything of it, I didn't see that it was an abusive relationship, my college relationship. I didn't think that it was anything outside of the normal. I thought I was like, oh, I'm 20 and I'm passionate. Fast forward probably. Let's see, I don't know how old I was , let's go back, let's go to 2016. Fast forward 2016. I dropped outta college in 2014 and I met a guy. He was actually a friend of a friend, so I met him through my friend and one of my closest girlfriends, honestly. And, and he came highly recommended. She thought she knew him. So she was like, yeah, you should give him a try. You know how to try going out with him, he seems like a good person. And so I did, to your question, and this is like late 2016, we started dating and within the first three months there were certainly red flags. I didn't see them then. Mm-hmm. Or maybe I did and I chose not to, but there was certainly a lot of, things that he didn't like about me. That [00:09:00] he ma he was vocal about from the very start, he, did not accept me for who I was. I come from a really small town, in Massachusetts. That's. Pretty ghetto. And he, often used to refer me to me as like a statistic of that same, city because a lot of people don't, they don't make it out of that city with a college degree or anything like that. And I had dropped out and so he used that, that oh, education target on my back, like to really make me feel bad. And that was only in the first three months. So there was definitely red flags. Did I listen? No. Yeah, I was guilty of ignoring red flags in my abusive relationship too. The relationship progresses, so when did you know the real abuse start? Mm-hmm. What kind of abuses did you endure? Yeah, like I said from the beginning, I feel like even three months in, even though, he wasn't physically, or even at that point, maybe emotionally abusive, but he [00:10:00] was definitely verbally abusive in the way he spoke to me. So I would say as early as those, it took me a really long time to actually understand that was abuse too. So as early as three months in, he was degrading me with words. And oftentimes, I would cry myself to sleep because I didn't know, I believed what he was saying, because I had, such a low self-esteem, such a self, a low self-worth. I believed everything that he said because I was like, well, it must be true. It's silly. But, i'm sorry, I kind of backtracked very common thought process that we deserve being treated this way. That's very common. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But one thing led to another and, eventually the relationship became, emotionally abusive. Like he was very manipulative. He wanted to kind of just. Make every decision for me. And I didn't know he was doing it. He would do it. He was very persuasive. He was very charming. And I actually, when I started [00:11:00] dating him, I started my walk with God. Mm-hmm. And I didn't know that he would be the one thing to deter it because I thought he was a Christian. I thought that he was in the church too. So we would go to church together. Oh, we had the whole deal together. Like it was just a front, and because I was like, oh, well he's, you know, obviously, I didn't marry him, but I also, the fact that I grew up in a Dominican household also played a part to it. I'm sorry if I'm jumping all over the place. No, you're fine. But, yeah, it played a role into the way I viewed men in my life because I thought that they always needed to be the, I'm Dominican, that culture's very, you know, the man is the head of the household, very machista, very, they gotta be the strong leader. And, so because I grew up in that setting, or with those examples, I would say. Not setting because my father was very different. But I saw that all around in the rest of my family. I definitely felt like I needed to have that in my life and I needed to follow [00:12:00] his lead, even though the lead was horrible. And so, I was like, all right, he's leading me anyways. We're going to church together. We're strengthening our faith together. This can't be that bad. That's what I used to tell myself. And there was a couple times that our verbal arguments got physical where he would pin me down. At times he would push me. It was a number of things. I tell myself all the time, I'm not even sure that I remember every single incident because there were so many at this point. And so ultimately. Towards the end of the relationship, he tried to kill me and oh, that's when I had to leave. Well, I didn't have an option. So it, it was a lot of physical, I'm sorry, a lot of verbal. And then ultimately physical abuse. So he was definitely faking it with the church stuff. And yeah, I mean, I don't, I didn't, I don't know. I would say definitely faking it, but also probably struggling on his own, and you mentioned your [00:13:00] background, but. I didn't even have that background of being Dominican or Spanish, but that seems to be a prevalent mindset in American culture, that the man is in charge and you're supposed to do what you're told and put up with it. Yeah, and that's why we don't fight back is because of the society that we are raised in, and then some of us have. An empathetic personality that results in wanting us to help people or maybe fix people. Was that true with you? Oh yeah. Absolutely. Especially by nature. I'm just like a, I'm a helper by nature. I want to help improve anything. I'm a manager, that's what I do. So I, with, when it came to my ex there was, he definitely had some, things internally going on that I thought. I was the answer to that I thought that I could help him with. There was definitely some anger stuff, and some unresolved trauma, so I was like, well. I'm pretty good at this stuff because I didn't, [00:14:00] at that point in my life, I hadn't really gone through much trauma. But I worked in the behavioral health field, so I'm like, I can help, I also love him so I can help. Mm-hmm. So each time that we had an issue I would focus on fixing either myself or trying to plead with him, see my side if I really thought that I was true, but oftentimes I was trying to fix him or I to be. Perfect for each other. For lack of better words. And you mentioned the word love. You loved him. What was your definition of love then? Yes. Well, I definitely, certainly did not know what love was then. Because, and I will say like it has a direct co correlation with the fact that I didn't know Jesus yet. Because I don't truly believe you can experience love without knowing Jesus. My definition of love back then was very, temporal. It was very, I don't even know what's the best word to explain it, but it was shallow. It was just based off of [00:15:00] appearances and what, what you can do for me and what I can do for you type of love. So not at all anything like what the love of God offers us. And I can say that now. I definitely know that I didn't know Jesus then. So I didn't know how to love or be properly loved. You were how old again? Whew. I didn't think about that. Let's see. Early in the twenties, right? Yeah. Yeah. I was 20, 24, 25, 24 when I started dating him. And then 20, oh gosh, I don't know. Yeah, I'm 27 now, so that was two years ago. So I was about like 22 to 26 when I was dating him, or 25. I think all the young people, including myself, when I was in my twenties, I was very gullible and innocent and trusting and yeah, I didn't know what love was and my mother made it very clear that, oh, well you don't, you have no clue what love is [00:16:00] and no mom, I, maybe I don't, but I'm gonna find out. And. You learn as you get older. You learn by experience. You learn when you meet Jesus, you learn how he loved us and how we are to love others. So, don't be too hard on yourself. Right? Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. I hear you. Yeah. No, my mom said the same thing growing up. You don't know. I love is, I think we often hear that and we don't actually understand what it is until we either lack, real love or we experience it for the first time. Yeah, because our parents, they see the people that we date and they're like, oh no, not for my kid. That's not a good choice for you, but we don't listen. Yeah. It actually, it's so funny you mentioned that it actually was different with my ex in that accord because my entire family actually loved him. Really? My entire family actually. Did not. Well, for two reasons. I was never vocal about the abuse. I never actually told everybody the real [00:17:00] truth about what was going on behind closed doors. So that was the first thing. And like I said earlier, he was charming. He would, he was persuasive. He got along with just about everybody. And when I tell you, like most of my family, I'm probably to this day, they still say the same thing. They said, we were shocked. We were surprised 'cause they did not see it coming. Well. Mm-hmm. I think my dad and my stepmother didn't really know the extent of the abuse. They saw some things. And they didn't like him, but they would never interfere out of respect for me. My mother and my sister were a little more vocal about, I don't like him. He, he pushes you around, he bosses you around. He's, he is arrogant and he is rude and. All those things, but mm-hmm. No, I didn't, I didn't listen. So at this point in your relationship you suffered a lot up to this point. Mm-hmm. Would you say that you were an angel at that time? No, I [00:18:00] definitely would not say that. And, before it was really difficult for me to explain this portion of my story because I couldn't do it without guilt or shame because that's what the enemy tries to, ki tries to keep us in shame and secrecy. Mm-hmm. But I mean, in my relationship with my ex, I have, I, I became unfaithful and little. Did I know then because I didn't understand then why I was seeking other men, and I was see, , seeking attention from other guys. It all ties to, for me, it all ties to the fact that I, I had a really low self-esteem and my self-worth was probably on the ground again. I didn't know God, I didn't really have a relationship with him. I, like I was saying I was going to church, but I was just going through the motions 'cause it's what I used to do and I was going to a Christian Church at this time. But it's just based on the foundation that I had from growing up in that Catholic church and I was, I just knew to go through the motions. I didn't really understand that I needed [00:19:00] to practice a relationship with God. So even though I was going to church while I was in this relationship, I didn't know God enough to know the love that he had for me and therefore make better decisions. So I saw other men, I saw, attention from particularly this one other guy, and I got really involved with him while I was with my ex. And ultimately the, that was something that made the abuse worse. Mm-hmm. Because my ex found out about it, and he, there was two occasions where on one occasion, the first time that he found out about the other guy, it was, oh, it was tough. He dragged me outta my bed. I was sleeping and he, Ooh. Just woke me up and dragged me outta the bed because he saw the text messages from the other guy. And I remember in that morning, so me and my ex used to live with a roommate at that time. And I remember in that morning, my, [00:20:00] our roommate, our third roommate, she was at her boyfriend's house. Mm-hmm. So I, but I completely forgot. And when. He dragged me outta bed and I saw how violent he was about to get with me. He had pinned me down to the ground. I started to yell. I started to, well, I tried to start to yell her name out. And then a, like a voice was like, no one's here. In my head, oh, and I felt so abandoned, Diana. Oh, I felt so alone. I was like, oh my goodness, I'm alone. No one's going to know what happened to me if this man does something to me today. And so, the rest of that day was. Horrifying. He got, he was violent, but then also he was violent towards himself. He tried to he tried to hold me hostage by basically selling. Me that he was gonna kill himself. He took a, a knife and mm-hmm. And we were in the kitchen for over an hour [00:21:00] and I was trying to try and deescalate the situation. I must have called his, well his family's not, wasn't in Massachusetts at the time. So they were far. So I, I must have called his sister, his cousin, like everybody trying to get them on the phone too, just. Reason with him. 'cause he wouldn't reason with me at that point in time. And he was also scared. He was scared that he knew, like he had, abused me before and that I was kind of at that breaking point, he's like, I think you're gonna turn me in because it got so bad. And I. At the end of the day, his brother who lived at State over got there. He probably drove down like an hour, which is unheard of. Mm-hmm. And. He deescalated the situation he got, he got him out of the house. He moved everything out that day. So I left to my sister's house so that he can get everything out. And I ultimately went to the police station. I got a restraining order that [00:22:00] day, but that wasn't the end, a for me, I couldn't. I don't know. My definition of love was messed up back then, so I thought that I was still in love with him. So it wasn't even like four days or five days later that I went back to the courthouse and I dropped a restraining order so that I could be with him again, because I thought that, it was a mistake and he was, and I was guilt, I was feeling so guilty because of my my unfaithfulness. So I was like, I felt like I hurt him. I didn't even, I disregarded all the, everything that he did to me. And I just was like, well, I hurt him. I have to go back and help him and want to tend to his feelings. 'cause, he felt betrayed and not loved by me at the time. So. It just blows my mind. It just yeah. That you would go back to fix his problems. Which I think, and I'm sure you agree with me, this just makes it worse. [00:23:00] You going back after all of that. Because you felt guilty, which was misplaced guilt. Okay. That's, it's great that you acknowledged that you made a mistake, but, that doesn't cancel out his abusive behavior. Absolutely. And I thought it did. That's it. I love the word that you used, canceled. For me, that's what I thought it was like, all right, well I did this. So he did that. And, and of course, like I said, going back to what I said earlier, I believed all the things that he told me about me. Mm-hmm. I believed that I, that's what I deserved. And so I didn't see it as, I didn't view it as an issue or a problem. Now, when did you finally come to your senses and say, I've had enough. I'm at rock bottom. I've got to get out of this relationship. I mean, for good. Yeah. It didn't come by my own, choice. And I say that because a lot of people think that, you always just get to walk out of a [00:24:00] abusive a relationship or you just choose to go, and that's not the case. I went back to him and ultimately we had a lot of issues up until the last time that I saw him. And I was still being unfaithful. I was still seeking attention from other men. And so again, at this point, he's not trusting of me. He's still looking through my phone. He's following me at this point to everywhere that I go. And, on the last. Occasion, we went to a party and we went back to his house after the party and we were both drunk. And he went through my phone and he saw a text message from the other guy. And basically that's when he, that's the night that he tried to kill me. He, it was the most violent he had been with me, throwing me around the room, really just using me. As a punching bag. Mm-hmm. And, up until the point where he tried to strangle me and I don't really know how I got out of the str out of his choke [00:25:00] hold. But I did. And then ultimately I ran outside after that and the neighbors were there and the neighbors, they didn't even want to get involved. We lived in an apartment building in a three story apartment building, and I didn't knock on anybody's door because I was afraid. I just didn't know what to do. He took my phone, well he threw my phone out the window. It was just a bad situation, you know? And I was just trying to run out of the building. And when I was trying to run out of the building, there was neighbors coming inside the building. Mm-hmm. And they saw both of us. They saw that his shirt was ripped, they saw me, I had blood, I had, I was probably looking all crazy. Wow. And they. Like, well, we don't really wanna get involved in this. This seems like a, I don't know, I don't even know the words that they use. But instead of calling the police they asked him, they got involved. They said, oh, can you just give her phone back? That's basically what they told him. And I'm like, no, I need you guys to call 9 1 1 because he tried to kill me. He's not going to call [00:26:00] 9 1 1. And so ultimately after some push and pull, whatever. They gave me their phone. I called nine one one. And the ambulance showed up. The police showed up and they detained him. And so back to the question that you asked, when did I choose to leave? Or when did I have enough after this incident? The fact that the Lord delivered me from death because mm-hmm. I don't know how I got out of his choke. He was much stronger than me. He went, we went to through the court, he went to jail. We did all of that. I didn't really have a choice. The relationship had to be over at that point. Mm-hmm. It didn't feel like that for me. Even for months after that. It didn't feel like I, I wanted to leave. And that's the crazy part. That's the part that I was so deep into his manipulation, into his tricks, that even at that point, I felt like I still owed him something. It wasn't until maybe about six [00:27:00] months later that I gave, when I truly gave my life to Christ that I knew. That everything that I had felt about guilt and everything that he had done to me, that it was all wrong. It was so wrong. And I, that's when I knew, but it, it didn't happen immediately. Even I was at the point of death and in the hospital waking up all that. It wasn't the point where I said I had enough. I didn't have a choice at that point to be with him because of the situation, but I would say when I found Jesus was when I really knew that. I deserve so much more. It sounds like you had a lot of codependency going on there. Mm-hmm. And that is a real stronghold. That's almost like brainwashing from a cult. Mm-hmm. If somebody trying to kill you and you're in the hospital and you don't think that, well, I need to get out of this relationship. And everybody would talk to me and everybody would ask me like, what do you wanna [00:28:00] do? I had to sit through court proceedings where he was present and. I was going, I've always been a person who has like, pretty strong morale, even though I didn't mm-hmm. Like I said, like I grew up knowing right from wrong. Mm-hmm. And I knew at the time that the right thing to do was to continue going to court, cooperate so that he would be sentenced and everything go through the trial so that he wouldn't do this to other women. Mm-hmm. I knew that was the right thing to do. I didn't wanna do it though. I didn't wanna be a part of that. I didn't wanna be a part of something that could con particularly like, follow him around for the rest of his life. It was really sick in the beginning. But ultimately I did the right thing, and I look back and I know that it was the correct thing. Because you just have to do it because you just never know if somebody like that is gonna change. You can pray. But you don't know and you [00:29:00] don't want anyone else to fall into that trap. Just looking back at your story, it looks like the Lord intervened in your life. Maybe that was an angel that he sent to get you outta that choke hold. Maybe it was him that put your abuser in jail so you could get out. Did you have anybody else that was on your side or anybody else who helped you? Absolutely. When my family, became aware of what happened because I called them that night and, everybody showed up at the hospital. My mom was there, my aunt, my sister, they all came to the hospital. They just didn't know. They didn't, my sister had guessed a couple things 'cause she had seen him follow me. She had noticed him in the last month or two before that. So she had known something was up, but she didn't know that it was this bad. And, so she was right there. They all of them were right there, but had they known, they, I think they would've been there, before and they would've tried to get me out before. But like I [00:30:00] said, because of my own doing and my own wishes of wanting to be there, I just stayed. I. Without telling them. But my family was, they were really supportive after and during the court and the trials and everything, they were very supportive. And there was one person in particular who was probably key in getting me to go back to the church. Mm-hmm. And, yeah, I consider him an older brother and he, I grew up with around him and he had a church. He has a church in Massachusetts. Well. He goes to a church in Massachusetts and he always invited me. And so, that really was what helped me turn my life around at that point. So tell us how you, found the Lord Jesus as your savior For real now? Yeah. Yeah, for real. And I always tell people, I'm like, I think I got saved in thousand 15, but, and I used to say that before, but now I know that, he really saved me in 2019, not only because of what he delivered me from, but because I knew, I felt it. I [00:31:00] felt his love. I felt. Everything I felt redeemed. So I would say like June of 2019, I, which was only about six months after the incident and I. Was after, after the incident, I was going to church still. I was, like I said, I, there was not really a period of time that I wasn't going to church. I was always going to church, but it was always a through the motions kind of deal, and I never really prayed and I never really, I didn't even read the word I, the only word that I got was on Sundays. And mm-hmm. Then ultimately on, in June of 2019, I said. Something's gotta change because I knew mm-hmm. That everything that I had experienced up until that point and all of my feelings of like still wanting to be with my ex even after everything were, so, they were, they came from a place, an evil place, right? Because I just knew that the Lord wouldn't send me back to that type of relationship. So I. [00:32:00] I started being intentional. I started just like saying, okay, God. I would sit with him in the morning and just say, God, I need you to show me why I'm here. And I kept on asking that question, why I am here and why I'm here. And he didn't answer that question. He answered a DA different question that I didn't even know that I had in my heart. He answered like the questions about. My feeling, my not feeling abandoned. Sorry, how do I say this? He answered my questions about me. Being loved by him. Mm-hmm. And I didn't know I had those questions because I was just like, well, I just, I'm a fixer by nature, so I just wanted to fix all the, I was like, I need my pur, I need my purpose and I need to walk into it. That's it. Yeah. That's what I wanted to do. And I was like, I need to learn how to do this. But by spending time with him daily. And really just getting into his word and learning his character, I learned his love. I learned that he loved me beyond every single thing that I had done. And I was able to walk out of the shame and [00:33:00] fear and guilt that I had wa I had walked in for so long because I, at that point I felt like I had made too many. Bad decisions, too many, just things that I was ashamed of. But when I was spending that time with him, he was like, I don't care about all that. He's like, I love you the way you are. I made you and I'm going to love you no matter what. And slowly but surely, he started to reveal his character to me. He started to reveal my purpose on this earth. And that's when I say that, I really got saved, but there was no like, aha moment. There was no, none of that. It was just like I, I had to start being intentional about it. I had to, if I wanted to see a change, I knew that something different, I had to do something different. Yeah. The Lord's been pursuing you your whole life. He was just waiting for you to Absolutely. Turn around and see him. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So I say that healing is always a journey. There is no I've arrived [00:34:00] or I'm healed a hundred percent. It's a journey throughout our life. How did you start the healing process and what steps did you take besides church? I mean, I really changed my decisions. In my social life I reduced the amount that I was drinking. I used to drink a lot of alcohol that mm-hmm. I remember there was times that I drank alcohol to the point of blackout. So I reduced the amount of drinking I was doing. I reduced I increased the amount of times that I was in church a week. I was in church twice or three times a week rather than just on Sundays. And then. I told my family, I'm making a decision to make church a priority in my life. God, the priority, not just not the church, God, a priority in my life. So ev everything that did not serve that purpose, I tried to just remove out of it. I was in a job that I was unhappy, so I left it. I pursued a job that was. Quiet it, it just allowed me to take a step back from management. It wasn't in the limelight. I [00:35:00] didn't have a lot of pressure, so I could spend a lot of time with God. And then most important, next to God, I took, I started therapy. I did therapy. Mm-hmm. And I did a trauma specific therapy. I did EMDR and I. But that's the second thing next to Jesus that changed my life. So explain what is EMDR for those that don't know what that is? Yeah, I haven't had to explain this in a while, but I'll try my best. It's called, lemme see if I can get this right. It's called eye movement. Desensitizing reprocessing, I think it is. Yes. And it's a yes. I tried. And it's a type of therapy that specifics on specifies on like if you have had childhood trauma or any kind of trauma really, and you use physical movements like tapping or eye movements to walk you through the memories and reprocess those memories and desensitize them. The emotions that are attached to it. So I [00:36:00] did that with the entire experience that I went through with my ex up until the point where he tried to kill me. And a lot of stuff was brought up during that during that year that I did therapy. It was very intense. It was hard work. It is hard, but I believed the Lord. For bringing me to that therapist because it was a very godsend, like it was a referral. And I knew that if I saw it through that on the other side, I was gonna come out the person that the Lord wanted me to come out. And that's exactly what happened. So I tell the listeners that are, there are many different tools for healing. Not everybody chooses the same tool. It's whatever's. Helpful for them and their situation. So you thought that therapist and that technique was really helpful for you, it sounds like. Yeah, because something that I noticed like I said, a lot of. Yes. I wasn't an abusive relationship, but there was some decision making in [00:37:00] my past choices that obviously weren't rooted out of that abusive relationship that came out of a different place. And I had done talk that I, I mentioned I was depressed in 2014 and when, mm-hmm. When I left college, I had. Done talk therapy. I had done all of that and it didn't work. CBT kind of stuff. And so I was like, I need something that's gonna be specific. Look at me just being a fixer and a planner, right? I was like, I need something that's gonna be specific and it's going to target this trauma that I just went through and help me come out a better person. And EMDR is truly if you are, that, if you're looking for results, that's what. You'll get if you apply yourself. I like what you said about there were issues that you had that were not related to the abuse. A lot of people, they wanna ignore those things and blame. Mm-hmm. Everything on the abuse. Well, we are complex creatures, aren't we? Absolutely. Oh. It's not always black and white, cut and dry. There are, aspects [00:38:00] of our personalities, our upbringing that are separate from the abuse that also need to be. Dealt with and healed. Yeah, too. So I'm glad you mentioned that 'cause that is important. But you're admitting that yes, you found the Lord and you're on your journey of healing, but it wasn't all unicorns and rainbows. There were some struggles and that we are going to struggle. Absolutely. Or we just keep going forward, right? Absolutely. It was not a, walk in the park after I made that decision. And especially for me, who was somebody who was battling, I was battling, just sexual temptation, lust desiring to just be in the world, drink alcohol, those things, those were not easy decisions to make. But. I had the strength of the Lord because I was with him and he was with me. Amen. And so I did it. Yeah. But it was not easy because there was, and especially I'm still young. I'm, I was what, 25 when I started making that, those choices. Mm-hmm. To turn to the Lord and. It's [00:39:00] just, it goes against everything that a natural 25-year-old wants. Yes. And you're being honest here, and I'm sure the listeners appreciate that you're being real with us. Yeah, absolutely. You're not pretending that, everything is hunky dory and you're perfect. No, absolutely not. So what is your relationship with God like right now? I think it's awesome. He's my best friend. I talk to him daily. I go to church. I'm involved in my church. I'm a spiritual coach. I have the good news podcast. I don't know. I don't find anything more gratifying than using every aspect of my life to glorify God and to glorify his holy name. And that's what I do every single day. I try at least. Amen. You're definitely different. The new rose looks different than the old rose. Oh my gosh, yes. And I laugh because this is something that. I am still experiencing with people that know me, that have known [00:40:00] me for many years. They're like, you're different now. Mm-hmm. And I get this so often now within my family, friends, they're like, oh, the old Rose wouldn't do this. Or the old, or the old rose was you. I get this a lot was fun. And I'm like, your definition of fun and my definition of fun now is completely different because I no longer want the things that the world has to offer. Yep. The things I used to do, I don't do them anymore. There's a song I put away My child. Just things. Yes. We have a lot of listeners who are listening to your powerful story today, and they're in an abusive situation right now. What advice would you give them right now? Oh, this is hard. I think I, I have so many. We still got 10 more minutes left on. Okay. So I got it. Well, if you don't know, God, that's my first piece of advice is to get to know him. I don't think that I could have gotten out [00:41:00] of my situation without him. I know that. I know that, like I said, my hand was forced because I. Was at the hospital and he was in jail. And it was no other choice, but I think that was God. God really delivered me from death and deliver, delivered me from that situation to get me to the place that I am now. So if you don't know God, it's so important that you have a relationship with him because he's gonna guide you the best. And secondly, trust somebody. Trust any someone in your life and talk to them about it. I didn't. And it made me feel so alone. It made me feel abandoned. Mm-hmm. And I know now that I have a. Army of people who love me and will, go to war for me. And I didn't think that, you think that oftentimes because of the choices that you make and ultimately for me, like, I thought all of my decisions was what warranted that abuse. So we get to a place where we don't wanna reach out for help because we're like, people are gonna look at me and say well, you [00:42:00] did that to yourself, but that's not. I learned that wasn't true. That the people that are there for you, that love you will help you out of it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I tell my listeners all the time, I'm available to help people. I'll help. I'll help you any way I can, and I'm sure that you would say the same thing. Absolutely. Yeah. You would help anybody that reached out to you for help. Yes. I'm always happy to be an a listening ear. I literally, like I said, I'm a spiritual coach, so my phone is on twenty four seven. I answer calls, texts, voice notes, whatever. Yes. Awesome. Rose has her good news podcast. Yes. So you can hear her putting me in the hot seat for a change. And so you can listen to that on her show. How can the listeners connect with you? Absolutely. I am on, well, the Good News podcast, you could go to ww dot the good news podcast.org. You could find it on [00:43:00] iTunes and Spotify, but I'm also on Facebook, Instagram, and I'll have all that stuff in the show notes for everybody. Mm-hmm. Was there anything we left out that you wanted to tell the good folks listening? No, other than just thank you for having me. This has been awesome, and I just hope my prayer is that this, episode blesses somebody and gives them the strength and the courage to, to do what I, to do what I didn't get to do, leave. So, amen. Mm-hmm. Amen. Yes. This has been great. I've enjoyed listening to you tell your story again, and how the Lord's brought you to where you're at now. Thank you. God bless you. God bless you too. And all your listeners, wow, wasn't she great folks? It's an amazing story. So you be sure to reach out to Rosalie and listen to her podcast. I hope this encouraged you. It [00:44:00] sure encouraged me. So thank you so much everybody for tuning in today. We're going to see you next week. God bless you everybody. Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.