A Better Story

When Brit Barron fell in love with her wife, she was a pastor at an evangelical megachurch. As you might guess, it wasn't the kind of place that would've allowed, much less nurtured their relationship. She sat down to talk about that experience, and, even more, what it's like to make impossibly hard choices that lead to freedom. To hear even more of her story, check out her new book Worth It. You can find out what she's up to at https://britbarron.com/.

Why are Donald Trump's most loyal supporters from a group that claims to follow a non-violent, impoverished Middle Eastern man (a.k.a. Jesus)? Kristin Kobes Du Mez (Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University) has a few well-researched suggestions. She unearths years of sexism, racism and militant nationalism within white American Evangelicalism that help us understand how we got here and how we can change it. We hit the highlights in this conversation, but to get the full picture, check out her book Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation. You can see more of her work at https://kristindumez.com/.

From an early age, we're wired to connect, particularly with our parents. Amy (author, advocate) and Jeffrey Olrick (psychologist) join the podcast to talk about how attachment works and how it invites us into more human ways of parenting. Whether you're in the middle of parenting or reflecting on how you were parented, their insights are eye-opening and life-giving. To dig deeper, make sure to check out their new book The 6 Needs of Every Child: Empowering Parents and Kids Through the Science of Connection. You can find out more about their work at https://www.growingconnected.com/ and follow them on Facebook and Instagram.

In the United States, the last three years have been catastrophic for immigrants and refugees and the systems that are meant to welcome them. With misinformation everywhere, Karen Gonzalez is here to clear a few things up. She helps us understand how “just get in line” isn't an option for most and how refugees are being intentionally mistreated. She also gives us insights from the Hebrew and Christian scriptures and helps us answer the question, “What can I do to help?”. Make sure to check out Karen's book The God Who Sees: Immigrants, the Bible, and the Journey to Belong and get in touch with her at https://www.karen-gonzalez.com/.

Andre Henry is about the work of social change, particularly when it comes to undoing racism. He sat down to talk about that work - push back, hope, nonviolence and more. Along the way, he gives us several history lessons, plenty of reading recommendations, and a new understanding of an old story.  To find more about Andre, visit http://www.andrerhenry.com/ and check out his podcast, Hope and Hard Pills.  Resources Mentioned in this Episode: Mothers of Massive Resistance by Elizabeth Gillespie McRae On Grand Strategy by John Lewis Gaddis Blueprint for Revolution by Srdja Popovic The Radical King by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Cornel West (Editor) This is what an antiracist America would look like. How do we get there? by Ibram X Kendi

Dr. Jennifer Kaalund (womanist scholar, Iona College faculty) helps us understand how identities are negotiated, especially for early Jesus followers. She unpacks the complex identities that made up the recipients of Hebrews and 1 Peter, seeing parallels with the African American Great Migration. Along the way, she helps us understand some of the ugliest passages in the Christian scriptures. To hear more from her, check out her book, Reading Hebrews and 1 Peter with the African American Great Migration, or find her commentaries on Working Preacher.

Lyz Lenz (journalist, author) set out after the 2016 election to explore what the hell was happening with faith and politics in middle America. What she found was complex, infuriating, deeply human and more personal than she expected. The fracture lines emerging throughout the country were undeniable in her own marriage. She sat down to talk about all of it- faith, politics and divorce. She unpacks these realities in her incredibly compelling new book God Land, which you should absolutely order.

Michael Gungor (The Liturgists, Gungor) stopped by to talk about THIS, which happens to be both the title of his new book and a way of describing what exactly is going on here. This one gets weird in all the best ways!

For Barbara Brown Taylor (best-selling author, teacher, Episcopal priest), what started as a university teaching role turned into something sacred. Exploring other religions with her students became a transformative experience. In the end, it made her a better neighbor, gave her a broader understanding of the divine and rooted her deeper in her own tradition. Barbara sat down to talk about this experience, which she writes about in Holy Envy. If you enjoy the conversation, be sure to pick up the book and visit https://barbarabrowntaylor.com/ to find out when Barbara's book tour will be near you.

Kaya Oakes (journalist, author, professor) had a hunch that the Nones, those who don't associate with a religion, weren't awash in a sea of meaninglessness and immorality. A few years ago she sat down and recorded many of their stories, which became her book The Nones Are Alright. She came on to talk about what she found and the changing landscape of religion. You can find more from Kaya at http://www.oakestown.org/ and in America Magazine, The New Republic, Religion News Services and a host of other publications.

Sikhism is an empowering, justice-oriented and generous religion, whose story deserves to be more widely told. Fortunately for us, Inderpreet Kaur from the Sikh Coalition is here to help. She sat down to talk about beliefs, history and practices of Sikhs. After this conversation, you'll definitely want to check out the work of the Sikh Coalition at https://www.sikhcoalition.org/. Donate, learn and get involved in the great work they're doing.

Dr. Tom Oord is back on the podcast to talk about his new book God Can't. If you've ever wondered why God hasn't prevented tragedy, are tired of cliche answers, and you don't want to read volumes of dense theology, this is your book. Plus, Tom talks about some of the quirkier things in Christianity: healing, demons, heaven, hell, the second coming and more! Keep up with Tom at http://thomasjayoord.com/. Don't forget to check out Theology Corner for like-minded voices, and Light Theory if you enjoyed the intro and outro music.

Politics and religion. The topics you aren't supposed to talk about, but can't ignore these days. Nish Weiseth (author, speaker, podcast host) is on to help us understand the disturbing relationship between Evangelicals and right wing politicians in the U.S. and what a faithful response could look like. Nish, along with Amy Sullivan, is the co-host of Impolite Company, a podcast that covers religions and politics with depth and insight. Nish's op-ed pieces have been featured in Cosmopolitan and Christianity Today, and she authored the book Speak: How Your Story Can Change the World. Check out more from Nish at https://www.nishweiseth.com/. Don't forget to head over to Theology Corner for like-minded voices, and check out Light Theory if you enjoyed the intro and outro music.   A couple of great organizations we mention in this episode: Autistic Self Advocacy Network and Refugee Council USA.

How do you raise kids in a Christian environment without leaving them with loads of spiritual baggage? Cindy Wang Brandt is here to help. Cindy is a writer and speaker with a focus on empowering children to develop their own healthy spirituality. Between interviewing experts, curating conversations with thousands of parents, and raising her own kids, she brings wisdom and insight for parents and non-parents alike. You can catch Cindy on her own podcast, Parenting Forward, her website, https://cindywords.com, and on Twitter and Facebook. A huge thank you to Leigh Thomas for the crisp new logo. Check out more of her work at https://www.leighkthomas.com. Don't forget to head over to Theology Corner for like-minded voices, and check out Light Theory if you enjoyed the intro and outro music.

Whether you're changing out old pieces of your faith or just wanting to create a better world, you'll love the work of Catherine Keller (Drew University). Catherine sat down to talk about some of the big ideas she has explored (process theology, mysticism, politics, the environment, the apocalypse), and give us tools for exploring the sacred and building a more just, beautiful and playful world. If you enjoy our conversation, make sure to pick up one of her many books.  Don't forget to head over to Theology Corner for like-minded voices, and check out Light Theory if you enjoyed the intro and outro music.

Kaitlin Curtice (author, mystic) doesn't think mysticism should be an intimidating word. It's less about drawn out spiritual practices and more about paying attention. She sat down to talk about the sacred, noting the gifts of her Potawatomi roots in experiencing God. To hear more from Kaitlin, head to https://kaitlincurtice.com/ and check out her book, Glory Happening. You can also catch her at On Being, Relevant and Sojourners.  As always, many thanks to Theology Corner for promoting the podcast and Light Theory for providing the intro and outro tunes.

Does belief in God make sense in a world where terrible things happen? Or in the midst of an ever evolving scientific knowledge of the universe? Dr. Tripp Fuller (Homebrewed Christianity) thinks process theology has some pretty helpful tools for exploring those questions. He sat down to talk about process theology, an understanding of the cross that isn't terrible, the Bible in process and the resurgence of God as "ground of being".  Make sure to check out Homebrewed Christianity, in particular their upcoming Theologies of Resistance class with our friend Dr. Robyn Henderson-Espinoza. Don't miss Tripp's upcoming movie, The Road to Edmond, which premiers at the end of July.  As always, many thanks to  Theology Corner and Light Theory.

God is love. So, when we define love narrowly, we miss a lot of God. Thankfully, queerness can help us expand our understanding of love, and of God. Mihee Kim-Kort sat down to talk about how queerness is deeply spiritual and deeply Christian.  To hear more from Mihee, make sure to check out her forthcoming book, Outside the Lines: How Embracing Queerness Will Transform Your Faith, available July 1. You can keep up with her at miheekimkort.com or on Twitter.  Make sure to check out Theology Corner for some really great podcasts and blogs. If you're into the intro and outro music, give Light Theory's music a listen.

What do you do when your faith doesn't match most of the lyrics and style of Christian music? What makes music "Christian" anyway? David Gungor (The Brilliance) sat down to chat about how his music has changed with his faith, how he can still appreciate some aspects of Christian music, and why the word "God" shows up less and less frequently in his music. Check out more from The Brilliance at http://thebrilliancemusic.com/, and look for new music from them this summer.  Also, make sure to check out Theology Corner for some really great podcasts and blogs.

Racism is pervasive. And it's hard to talk about. Austin Channing Brown is here to help. Austin sat down to talk about racism, white supremacy, "safe" white people and more. She explores all of this in her forthcoming book I'm Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness, which is out May 15. Pre-order it now. Seriously. It's vulnerable, truth-telling, beautiful writing, and coincidentally, one of the best books of the year. For real. You can find more from Austin at http://austinchanning.com/.

We love binaries, but they never come close to reflecting the nuances of life, especially when it comes to gender. Dr. Robyn Henderson-Espinoza (scholar, activist, theologian) sat down to talk about the spectrum of gender, theological and biblical perspectives that make room for our trans* neighbors, and how meaningful it was to find the language of non-binary trans.  To hear more from Robyn, check out https://irobyn.com/. Check out Theology Corner for like-minded podcasts and blogs and Light Theory, who provides the intro and outro tunes.

Bust out the birthday cake. The podcast turns a year old today! We're celebrating in all kinds of ways, none of which involve clowns.  First, I'm talking to Sarah Bessey (mystically-minded author and speaker). We're looking at how we begin to reconstruct faith and what it looks like to reclaim some good old fashioned Christian terms...and which ones to leave behind. To hear more from Sarah, check out www.sarahbessey.com and her book Out of Sorts (or just win a copy below). Plus, she and Rachel Held Evans just launched a conference called Evolving Faith. Go to it! Second, we're celebrating by raising money to prevent refugees from experiencing homelessness in Seattle. 100% goes to refugees, and, if every listener gave $10, 500 refugees would have an extra safety net to keep them housed. We've got this, people. Donate HERE, and pass it on. Last, it wouldn't be birthday party without presents. We're giving away a set of books from our favorite guests, including: Womanist Midrash by Wil Gafney Out of Sorts by Sarah Bessey Healing Spiritual Wounds by Carol Howard Merritt The Very Good Gospel by Lisa Sharon Harper Disarming Scripture by Derek Flood To enter to win, head to A Better Story's Twitter or Facebook pages and share the post from this week's episode, or, if you're avoiding social media, just email me at abetterstorypodcast@gmail.com. THANK YOU for a great year.

Dr. Amanda Mbuvi (High Point University) thinks we've been misreading Genesis, especially when it comes to race. We assume the ancient stories share our modern conception of racial identity. When we look closer, we find something much more nuanced, fluid and perhaps helpful for us as we navigate racial inequity today.  You can find even more on the topic from Dr. Mbuvi in her book, Belonging in Genesis. Use the discount code BDFW before April 30 for a 30% discount OR get 75% off if you order before March 31 and follow the instructions listed HERE. Keep up with Dr. Mbuvi at www.amandambuvi.com.  A gigantic thank you to Theology Corner for promoting the podcast and Light Theory for providing the intro and outro tunes.

When it seems like fear is the fuel most of us run on, Adam Hamilton (pastor, author) offers some pretty excellent alternatives. He looks at fear from practical, spiritual and psychological angles, not to make our fears magically disappear, but to keep them from driving us.  Adam is the pastor of The United Methodist Church of the Resurrection in Leawood, Kansas, the largest mainline church in the country. He has also authored over a dozen books, including his latest, Unafraid, and Making Sense of the Bible, one of the best overviews of the Bible around.  As always, don't forget to check out Theology Corner and Light Theory.

Tsh Oxenreider (author, podcaster, entrepreneur) is on this week talking about vocation: what it is, how we find it and how God may not be as worried about it as we are.  Check out Tsh's latest book, At Home in the World, and her brand new podcast, Women's Work. Keep up with her at The Art of Simple.  Don't forget to check out Light Theory, who provided the intro and outro jams, Theology Corner and CXMH Podcast.

Carol Howard Merritt (writer, pastor, speaker) has experienced toxic faith, but she has also found healing. She sat down to talk about some of her story, how we can all tend to our spiritual wounds and some helpful replacements for the faith we leave behind. Our conversation is based on her book Healing Spiritual Wounds. Go read it. Seriously. If you want to hear more from Carol, check out https://www.carolhowardmerritt.org/.  And, of course, if you're into the intro and outro music, check out Light Theory.

Richard Beck (psychologist, writer) knows that we're not wired to befriend those who are radically different than us. Yet, he still thinks it's worth doing, especially if you're trying to follow Jesus.  He sat down to talk about why it's so easy to dehumanize others and how we can start to move against that tendency. He even helps prepare you for those contentious political discussions you're going to walk into over the holidays.  To dig deeper, check out Richard's latest book, Stranger God, as well as his past books Unclean and Reviving Old Scratch. You can also hear from him weekly at http://experimentaltheology.blogspot.com.

Lisa Sharon Harper (author, activist, speaker) thinks much of Christianity has underestimated the good news. In our conversation, she digs into scripture and finds a message that speaks to every area of life, from the spiritual to the political. Our conversation is based off of Lisa's book, The Very Good Gospel, which is most definitely worth your time. To hear more from Lisa, visit freedomroad.us and lisasharonharper.com. As always, a big thanks to Light Theory for the intro and outro jams.

Byron Bland (Stanford University) has spent his life negotiating peace. Working with leaders from Northern Ireland, Israel and Palestine has led to four questions that can foster peaceful relationships. Byron sat down to talk about peace, relationships and the four questions, which are: 1. Are the parties willing and able to envision a shared future? 2. Are the parties willing and able to embrace the risks involved in creating trust about motives and goals? 3. Are the parties willing and able to accept painful losses and acknowledge that the other side will also be accepting similar losses? 4. Are the parties willing and able to accept what they believe is less than ideal justice and work together to rectify the most egregious injustice that living together in peace will impose? As always, a big thanks to Light Theory for the intro and outro music.

An all powerful, all loving God and tragedy don't seem to jive. Dr. Tom Oord (theologian, author) is here to give us options. He sat down to explain open and relational theism, and, more specifically, how love, especially divine love, doesn't control others. If you're a fan of what Tom lays out, check out his book The Uncontrolling Love of God. You can even get a free audio version at https://homebrewedchristianity.leadpages.co/uncontrolling-love-of-god-audio-book/. You can keep up with him at thomasjayoord.com. As always, a big thanks to Light Theory for the intro and outro jams.

The Bible contains some pretty disturbing takes on gender, but Rev. Wil Gafney, Ph.D. (Brite Divinity School) doesn't shy away from these texts. She wrestles with them, questions them and illuminates them in unexpected ways. We sat down to talk about her latest book, Womanist Midrash. By the end of the episode, Wil had unpacked stories from across the Hebrew scriptures in a way that helps us confront gender based violence today. For more from Wil, check out www.wilgafney.com and her books Womanist Midrash, Daughters of Miriam and Nahum, Habakkuk and Zephaniah in the Wisdom Commentary series. As always, a huge thanks to Light Theory for the intro and outro tunes.

David and Constantine Khalaf are in a loving, Jesus-following, same-sex relationship, which unfortunately means they're not welcome in every church. As writers and journalists, they've begun documenting their relationship as a resource for faith communities and LGBTQ Christians. We talked about their lives, faith, church experiences and, of course, the infamous Nashville Statement, all in hopes that their story helps ground our beliefs in the actual experiences of actual people. You can read their blog at https://daveandtino.com and find them on Patheos at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/modernkinship. As always, don't forget to check out Light Theory's music at https://joehamgeri.bandcamp.com/.

Shane Claiborne (author, activist, all around interesting human) has spent his life trying to act like Jesus really meant what he said, which, as it turns out, has some political implications. Shane talks about what it might look like to faithfully follow Jesus politically in the age of Trump.  For more from Shane, including his books, check out shaneclaiborne.com. To find out more about The Simple Way, the community Shane helps lead, visit thesimpleway.org.  As always, don't forget to check out A Better Story on Facebook and Twitter, and listen to the sweet sounds of Light Theory, who does the intro music, at joehamgeri.bandcamp.com.

Frank Schaeffer (author, artist) knows the toxic role our desire for certainty can play in religion and politics. He has seen it at its worst, and experienced the freedom of letting it go. In our conversation, he talks about how addicting it can be, how it has led us to the age of Trump and the beauty and wonder that can come on the other side of it. Check out his latest book Why I Am an Atheist Who Believes in God and find out more at frankschaeffer.com.

Yolanda Norton (San Francisco Theological Seminary) explains Womanism and shows how reading Ruth as a black woman illuminates the story in unexpected and much needed ways. Of course, don't forget to check out Light Theory's music if you're into the intro tunes: https://joehamgeri.bandcamp.com/.

Because some things are too good for the cutting room floor. Yolanda talks about Huldah, Hagar and Womanist resources, such as:  I Found God in Me: A Womanist Biblical Hermeneutics Reader by Mitzi J. Smith (with contributions from Yolanda Norton) Psalms, Book 2-3 by  Denise Dombkowski Hopkins (with contributions from Yolanda Norton) Womanist Interpretations of the Bible: Expanding the Discourse by Gay L. Byron and Vanessa Lovelace The Woman Babylon and the Marks of Empire: Reading Revelation with a Postcolonial Womanist Hermeneutics of Ambiveilence by Shanell T. Smith An Introduction to Womanist Biblical Interpretation by Nyasha Junior Womanist Midrash: A Reintroduction to the Women of the Torah and the Throne by Wilda C. Gafney

In a time where misinformation about Islam is running wild, Dr. Ghazala Anwar (Graduate Theological Union) talks about the heart of Muslim faith and what it's like to be Muslim in America today.

Arinna Weisman (The Beginner's Guide to Insight Meditation) talks about the vital interplay between her activism and Buddhist practice, offering wisdom for anyone overwhelmed by the injustices of our day. Hear more from Arinna at arinnaweisman.org.

Derek Flood sat down to talk about how to read the Bible and what to do with the horrific things we sometimes find in it. Our conversation is based on his book Disarming Scripture. You can hear more from Derek at therebelgod.com.  Don't forget to check out A Better Story on Facebook and give more of Light Theory's music a listen at https://joehamgeri.bandcamp.com.

Tim Otto (Church of the Sojourners) sat down to talk about spending his life in an intentional community, and what it has taught him about life, others and God.

Mark Scandrette (ReImagine) and I sat down in a San Francisco coffee shop to explore his increased activism in issues of privilege, racism and police violence, and how it has taken on a spiritual dimension for him. We had just come from a press event that honored the lives of the ten individuals killed by SFPD in the last two years, with a particular focus on Amilcar Perez-Lopez.

What's the deal with this podcast? Seriously, another podcast about the Bible? And interviews? Take a couple minutes to find out what A Better Story is all about.