Podcasts about Sikhs

What does Gurbani actually say about Seva and why are Harteerath Alhuwalia and Ravi Singh getting it completely wrong? In this episode of The Sikh Renaissance we go directly to Guru Amardas's Shabad on Seva and let Gurmat speak for itself. Using the Bihar flooding incident as a launching point we expose how liberalized Sikhs have turned Seva into an Instagram charade that serves their own ego rather than the Guru's Panth. Guru Amardas is unambiguous. The only supreme Seva is Seva of the Guru and his Sikhs. Everything else is Manmukhi. Sikhi unfiltered. No apologies.

Crying After Stroke: What Bobby Chaggar’s Recovery Taught Him About Grief and Strength The night his stroke happened, Ramandeep “Bobby” Chaggar didn’t feel what he expected to feel. No pins and needles. No dramatic collapse. Just a left arm that wouldn’t answer him anymore.  He limped to the kitchen anyway, poured a glass of water, and brought one back for his wife because that’s what you do, even when your body has just stopped taking instructions from half of itself. It wasn’t until the ambulance service ran him through the BFAST test over the phone that the word “stroke” entered the room. A right ischaemic pontine stroke, in December 2023. He was, by his own account, in the best health of his life at the time: no blood pressure issues, no diabetes, cycling a hundred kilometres most weekends. Growing Up Believing a Stroke Meant You Were Gone Bobby grew up in an era and a family where a stroke wasn’t something you researched; it was something you heard about secondhand. “That particular cousin’s father’s grandfather had a stroke, and he’s gone,” is how the news used to travel. Nobody around him distinguished a stroke in the brain from a stroke in the heart. There was no internet to check, only the flat, final verdict that passed between relatives: he’s done for.  It’s a belief he carried into his own stroke, even as his medical training Bobby spent years as a veterinary surgeon in India before qualifying in Australia told him something else was happening. That veterinary background is exactly why he recognised what was going on in his own body faster than most people would. It didn’t make the belief disappear. It just meant he was fighting it from the inside while everyone around him was still catching up. Why His Arm Seemed to Move Then Stopped In those first disorienting hours, Bobby was convinced his arm had started moving again. He filmed it and sent the video to his sister as proof, he thought, that he was already turning a corner. By morning, the movement was gone. “It was like a bad dream,” he says. “I was like, what was that?”  What he was seeing wasn’t recovery. Doctors later explained that in the earliest hours after a stroke, the body can still fire off remnant spinal reflexes old movement patterns held in the spinal cord that can briefly activate on their own, independent of the brain damage that’s actually occurred. It’s a strange, almost cruel mechanism: the body offering a flicker of hope before the real work of recovery has even started. The Physio Who Promised Him He’d Walk Again Bobby spent 45 days in rehabilitation at Parkville, six months in a wheelchair overall, and credits one moment above almost everything else: his first physiotherapist he calls her Hannah sitting on the floor, moving his foot, and telling him he would walk again. It mattered enough that his book was originally going to be titled Walking with Hannah, before privacy considerations changed the plan. His son, who narrates the audiobook, still opens the acknowledgements by thanking her directly. Learning to Cry Again This is the part of Bobby’s story that speaks most directly to what so many stroke survivors go through and rarely say out loud. In his culture, and in his family, showing emotion, especially for the men expected to be providers and caretakers, wasn’t really an option. When his father died in 1997, he was told to be strong for his mother and sister. When his mother died in 2013, he was told the same thing again. “I’ve been told that stroke is a part of grief, and you should not suppress your feelings.” It took his brother-in-law showing up every day to help him with basic care showering, dressing, the things that felt hardest to accept before something shifted. His own psychologist eventually gave him the instruction that reframed everything: put on your own life jacket first, before you try to save anyone else. It’s advice Bobby now extends to every caregiver he talks to: the person supporting a stroke survivor needs their own support too, or they burn out trying to hold everything together. He isn’t alone in this. Bill has spoken openly on the podcast about his own experience with unexpected, involuntary crying after a neurological injury, and how much energy goes into reassuring the people around you that the tears don’t mean something is wrong. For Bobby, permission to cry didn’t erase the culture he was raised in. It just meant he stopped fighting it. A New Normal, On His Own Terms Bobby’s recovery is full of small, deliberate acts of reclaiming identity. He got his first tattoo not long after his stroke, partly, he says, because people notice ink before they notice a limp. He’s spent years slowly making peace with not tying a turban the way he used to, calling himself, with real affection, a recovering “turbanator.” He built his own incline-and-decline walking circuit near his home and quietly upped the difficulty every fortnight, the same instinct that now has him choosing stairs over the lift at the allied health course he’s completing. Running, he says flatly, is overrated. He can’t do it anymore, and he’s decided that’s fine. It’s the same acceptance that let him and his family move to Perth just one month after his stroke, and then move back again when isolation made the recovery harder than the geography ever was.  None of it looks like the version of recovery he grew up believing in, the one where a stroke simply meant a story was over. Bobby’s version has a motorbike with a sidecar he now rides himself, a book he wrote one voice note at a time because typing with one hand wasn’t fast enough, and a fairly simple message for anyone who asked him to just think positively: some things are still hard, and that’s allowed to be true at the same time as everything else.  If you’re navigating your own recovery or supporting someone who is, Bill’s book, The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened (recoveryafterstroke.com/book), walks through ten practical tools for rebuilding after a stroke. And if trauma has made your world feel smaller than it used to be, Bill’s newest book, Your World Doesn’t Have to Stay This Small, is written for exactly that.  If this episode helped you, you can support the show directly at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke. This blog is for informational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. Please consult your doctor before making any changes to your health or recovery plan. Bobby Chaggar: Learning to Cry After Stroke (Interview) He was taught a stroke meant you were gone. Bobby Chaggar’s story proves otherwise and shows why crying after a stroke is nothing to hide. Highlights: 00:00 Introduction 02:00 Life Before the Stroke 09:28 Rehabilitation Journey 12:00 Crying After Stroke 14:52 Reflections on Recovery and Growth 26:33 The Promise of Recovery and Writing a Book 29:37 Cultural Identity and Personal Beliefs 37:28 Relocation and Its Challenges 41:44 The Importance of Caregiver Self-Care 44:10 Adjusting to a New Normal 51:09 The Journey of Riding Again 57:09 Bobby’s Journey of Unlearning and Grief Transcript: Introduction – Crying after stroke Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (00:00) I realized that I was having a stroke. because it was not their usual pins and needles and there was no sensation. I couldn’t move my arm. I managed to limp. I went all the way to the kitchen. I trudged a little to the kitchen. I had a glass of water, brought a glass for my wife. in the hospital, I thought my arm started moving. And the doctors, and when I got up in the morning, it was like a bad dream. No, it was not moving again. So I was like, what was that? Bill Gasiamis (00:19) Welcome back to Recovery After Stroke. I’m Bill Gasiamis and today I’m talking with Bobby Chaggar, a veterinary surgeon originally from India, now living in Melbourne, who survived a right ischemic pontain stroke in December 2023. Bobby’s story covers a lot of ground, the cultural belief he grew up with, that a stroke simply meant you were gone. The strange confusion of a spinal reflex that made his arm move before it didn’t. Physiotherapist whose promise changed the course of recovery and what it actually took for him as a man raised to be the strong one to let himself cry. Before we get into it, if trauma has made your world feel smaller than it used to be, my new book, Your World Doesn’t Have to Stay This Small, is exactly what it’s about. Search for it on Amazon or tap the link in the show notes to grab your copy today. And one more thing, this show exists because listeners decide it’s worth keeping going. There’s no other funding behind it. If an episode like this one has ever helped you or helped someone you love, even a few dollars a month on Patreon is what keeps these conversations free for the next person who finds themselves Googling this stuff alone at two in the morning, scared, looking for someone who’s actually been through it. That’s all. patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke.. A small amount every month makes a massive difference. But now let’s get into it. Here’s my conversation with Bobby. Bill Gasiamis (01:56) Bobby Chaggar. Welcome to the podcast. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (01:58) Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Bill. Life Before the Stroke Bill Gasiamis (02:00) So you grew up in a house with 22 dogs, three cats and a trilingual parrot as well, right? So what’s the situation there? You’re living with pets. Were you important in your family or Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (02:10) Ha ha. Bill Gasiamis (02:11) did the animals come first? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (02:14) the animals definitely did come first. my mother was also a teacher, but she decided to stay at home and be a stay you know, stay a worker from home mom for for the for the kids. And my parents never used to say no to any patient. So they used to admit everything and anything. And in India also it’s quite common to rehome pets and a lot of times they don’t get proper homes. So we used to say yes to everything. So I I specifically remember this number because my mom had fallen and broken her shoulder once while walking in Labrador. So that day we counted the animals and we said, okay, no, after this, no more. That’s it. And the parrot was trilingual because the kids would play with him, so he wouldn’t know nursery rhymes, he would know the whistles, and then my grandmom’s dialect was Punjabi, so he could he could swear in Punjabi, and he could swear in Hindi because my mom was Hindi. So that’s why trilingual. Bill Gasiamis (03:08) I love that. That’s an awesome way to grow up. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (03:09) Yep. Yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (03:12) Tell me about this bike though. So this Royal Enfield motorbike, what was the deal with that? Why was it coming to Australia? Why was it a big deal on that day? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (03:22) it was gifted to me by it was restored and gifted to me by my wife on my fortieth. And this time on my fiftieth, the guy who had restored it, he’s a friend of mine, he decided to build this sidecar and ship it to me. And it’s a vintage, it’s a nineteen seventy three. So I’ve literally grown up on motorcycles, drive riding them, and I was quite excited about the whole thing. And I was so excited because my son’s school was only five minutes away. So I was always looking forward that I’m gonna drop him off in school in the sidecar. It’s gonna be such a big thing for him. So it was quite cool. So that’s the reason we were expecting it. It took almost two months for it to come via ship. And you know, once a ship leaves the country, there’s no way of live tracking it. There they must must be ways for the guys who are doing it, but for the clients, they have no way. They have no clue. They just talk to the customer care. And you have no idea what’s happening. And suddenly one day it just pops up and they say, Yeah, it’s in customs. Here you go and you have to do this, this and this and come and pick it up. So that’s the excitement. Bill Gasiamis (04:23) So you get that phone call and that’s it. You’re on the bikes here. We’re going to go and get it. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (04:26) Yep, yep, yep. We were just looking forward for the bike. Yep. Bill Gasiamis (04:29) I love it. In your book, you wrote about your culture that when somebody Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (04:34) Mm-hmm. Bill Gasiamis (04:35) has a stroke, most people believe that you’re gone, right? And it seems like you also believe that where does a belief like that come from? And what did you do in the first few hours? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (04:47) You know the first because it’s it’s it’s not I mean in the era I’ve grown up there was not a lot of internet. They were only encyclopedias. So getting information was a little challenge. So as as kids when we were growing up, we were just here that that particular cousin’s father’s grandfather had a stroke and he’s gone. That particular person’s family member has has had a stroke and he’s done for. So you know a few things like that. But there are families who’ve been through stroke. Now I’ve realized and also met them. So they know stroke one could recover from the stroke and one also forgets about it over time. I’ve heard that. But mostly the thought process was because it was not too kind of a disease. And we also did not know what is a stroke in the heart. Some would someone would say he had a stroke in the heart, someone would say he had a stroke in the brain. So we had no idea what that meant. We could just as kids, as growing up people, we just knew that he had a stroke and he’s done for, he’s gone. That’s one. And because of my medical background, my veterinary background, I realized that I was having a stroke. because it was not their usual pins and needles and there was no sensation. I couldn’t move my arm. I managed to limp. I went all the way to the kitchen. I trudged a little to the kitchen. I had a glass of water, brought a glass for my wife. And I’ve also realized, learnt from doctors here that there are remnant spinal reflexes which work for some time. So those reflexes help you I think, navigate the initial few hours. It’s just that’s how we are made. Because I, you know, in the hospital, I thought my arm started moving. And the doctors, and when I got up in the morning, it was like a bad dream. No, it was not moving again. So I was like, what was that? And I have a video of that. I was sending it to my sister. Look, my arm is started to move. Wow, I’m so happy. So they told me that was just a part of the spinal reflex. So maybe that’s what made me go to the kitchen and back. So we called the Ambos and they did the BFAST test. It was FAST initially, but now the acronym has changed to BFAST. so they did that over the phone and they confirmed it was a stroke. And they were they said they’ll be at my place in two minutes. And then we made the second phone call to my brother in law who works with neurointerventional surgeons all over Australia. He’s also vet by education. So I thought he might be the best person to give me advice. And he always used to share his stories of patients, aneurysms, brain things, strokes. So I thought that, you know, he he will fix me, man. So we called Bill Gasiamis (07:10) Yeah. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (07:11) him and he said, Come straight to Royal Melbourne and th that’s where I was. And and the Amus asked me, he they said, Your catchment is northern, but where do you want to go? I said, Please take me to Northern because my brother’s gonna be there. So they drove me to Royal Melbourne and that’s where my journey started. Yep. Bill Gasiamis (07:27) Yeah. My journey started at the Austin hospital, ended up at the Royal Melbourne as well. And I had my surgery there and I learned to walk again at the Royal Melbourne hospital and at their Parkville facility where the rehab was done. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (07:42) Yeah, that’s where I was. Yep. Bill Gasiamis (07:43) Yeah, good experience. Really helpful. So you are also a vet. Okay. A surgeon as well. Are all Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (07:52) Yes. Bill Gasiamis (07:53) vets surgeons? Do they all operate on animals? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (07:56) So in primitive times, the veterin surgery education is made around five types of animals, which is a canine, which is dogs, that that species, filine, which is cats, equines, which is horses, bovines, which is cattle, and one animal from wildlife, and one random fish, including birds. So we have to compare them in all aspects. So when we technically pass out, or rather I would say, When we used to technically pass out in those years, we were supposed to take take care of everything surgeries, medicine, prevention for all these species throughout. And obviously it was a it was a big experience learning practically as we went. Because when my father became a vet, my my grandparents were like, I don’t know whether anybody’s gonna get married to him or not. They they got worried. It was looked so down upon though that profession, you know. So he bought clamor to it. He showed everybody that passion. Can happen. It can happen in bed science also. In India. It must be good in other countries, but that’s all I know about India. Only the rich class had the dogs. The Britishers, they’re the people who were connected to the Britishers when they had gone, when they had left the country. Only that rich class was able to afford dogs because you know it was a poor country. So that’s where he started. Yep, yep. Yep. And now you have specializations Bill Gasiamis (09:05) Yeah, understood. Understood. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (09:08) on around everything. Now you can be a surgeon, you can be a bone surgeon. There’s a friend of mine, he’s a he’s a animal onko oncologist. So things like that. Yep. Bill Gasiamis (09:17) amazing how far things have come. So Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (09:19) yes, definitely. Yeah. Rehabilitation Journey Bill Gasiamis (09:20) the fact that you were kind of a surgeon, even if it was in veterinary surgery, Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (09:28) Yep, yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (09:30) does that kind of medical knowledge that you have make it harder to face what you’re going through? Do you apply those kind of medical skills onto your own condition? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (09:42) I would say it definitely helps in doing research and digging out evidence based study because that’s how we’ve been trained, right? So we have to we have been trained to look for specific information in a specific way. So I thought I think that is what probably helps a little bit extra when someone is from that background. So most of the medical jargon we understand because it’s same. Every all animals are same, mostly, except the ruminants which have four stomachs. So Bill Gasiamis (10:06) Mm-hmm. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (10:07) so So the single stomach animals are mostly similar, and how the physiology of the body works, how the brain works, how the conduction works, all the diseases, they have things like MS, they have things like diabetes. We used to treat them all the time. So yeah, yes, it helps. It does. Yeah. Bill Gasiamis (10:22) Yeah, that’s fascinating. I love it. so give me a little bit of an idea of you’ve gone to hospital. you realize that your arm is moving and now it’s no longer moving. And then how long were you in hospital for? And what was that, experience like what, what was your hospital stay like? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (10:43) I remember I was very emotional. Even now I’m very emotional. If I talk about nice things, I end up crying sometimes. Or I laugh more, I cry more. But I was really worried at that point. I didn’t know what’s gonna happen. My cousins used to call me, my friends used to call me, doctors used to go past and they would tell me that you’ll be fine, man. And you know, that was you’ll be fine was was kind of unbelievable because nothing’s moving. I mean I I don’t know how that’s gonna happen. Bill Gasiamis (11:09) your left side your whole left side was gone. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (11:11) Yeah, I was on the wheelchair for about six months and I was in the same rehab as you just mentioned at Parkwell for 45 days. Bill Gasiamis (11:18) Hmm. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (11:18) And if we must have been to the chapel, which is just behind the Parkville camp campus. So I used to go there every day. My son used to wheel me there. Yeah. So it was it was quite overwhelming for me because I didn’t know what was going on. I had heard that there are these injections which which are given within the golden period. Crying After Stroke And they can just reverse the stroke instantly. But I did not know the concept. So those injections basically work and dissolve the clot which is in the brain. But if if if the stroke is of a bleeder’s type, it can also kill the person. So we were waiting for the MRI. We are waiting for the MRI when’s that gonna happen. And it was unfortunately a Saturday night, Sunday morning. So everything were lined up. You know how the systems are in Melbourne. So all the emergency patients who are dying are first, people who are not dying are second, people who just Got normal things, they’re third. So things like that. So probably that took a little while. So I had my MRI on Monday. So I was in the hospital till Monday. I just had nurses coming in assessing me if I could stand, if I could step forward, step backwards. I mean, obviously they were doing my cognition tests and everything. I got tested for a drug which was is which is called clopedrogel, I think. that is the one which dissolves clots. So they give that as an oral thing to you and they test the blood in the body that whether it responds to that or not. So they are ready for it. As soon as they have the result, they just shoot you with injections. But it was unfortunate that I got diagnosed only in about twenty four hours. And then they moved me to the rehab. I was lucky to get a room and this amazing partner in my room, and that’s that’s when my rehab started. Bill Gasiamis (12:47) What was the cause of the stroke? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (12:48) Nobody knows. I was pr absolutely healthy. I don’t have blood pressure. I don’t have diabetes. I don’t have anything with I was cycling hundred kilometers on the weekend. I was walking my dog twice a day. I was very, very active. Even now I’m very active. I was I was when I was in rehab, obviously I started eating I was eating the same and I was obviously not exercising. So my weight went up to 120 kilos, for example, because my activity was so high. People were literally telling me that you’re eating like a Labrador, man. What happened? What’s happening? I was just like this. And the food in Royal Melbourne rehab is really good. They come to you with a menu and they ask you what you want. And so I was ordering everything I loved. So and I was hearing in one of your podcasts before, it it was literally like that. I had the I’ve had the best time of life in the last two years. Different realization, it’s changed me, and I’ve just had the best time. I always liked exercising. I’ve exercised Bill Gasiamis (13:39) Yeah. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (13:42) exercised so much at the last two years, it’s not even funny. I think he must be listening that I want to exercise. He said, Okay, go for it, man. Bill Gasiamis (13:51) You got to, you, you sounds like you were given, this like massive learning opportunity, but also a scary learning opportunity. Things were really difficult. at one point, but things have kind of progressed. Well, things are going well and that’s awesome. you’ve taken it, you’ve taken it away where this is an opportunity to grow, to learn, to try new things. but what was it like on your on the day that you noticed some movement, like in rehab, I think was that on day 28 or something like that, there was a little bit of, first Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (14:26) I think it was twenty five it was I think. Bill Gasiamis (14:28) voluntary voluntary movement first, first, yeah. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (14:30) Yeah, correct, correct. I still have that video. I remember there was this friend of mine who used to come to the hospital and she used to massage my arm. So that is also called I think it’s called passive passive stretching. And she would really press my arm and she will caught cause me pain. And I’ve been told that I’ve got a good pain threshold. Maybe that’s because of my martial arts training when I was younger. Reflections on Recovery and Growth Bill Gasiamis (14:52) Okay. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (14:53) So she used to press my arm and it was really painful. And I remember my roommate, he he had a problem with his arm, and they had to give him Botox injections to paralyze those muscles. So he could move and the muscles could be pain free. So that’s a that’s a routine thing which they do. So Botox is basically bottleneum toxin, which causes paralysis. and they give it in the muscle which is spas spas which is spasming for the person and it it releases the muscle and they feel better. So I was fortunate that she was there and I remember after her Three, four weeks of massaging my hand, and my wife used to be sitting beside my bed and she used to be pressing on my left leg, I remember. So that particular day I could see my foot move a little like this, b which I could. So that was that was a big one for me. I just cried and I didn’t know what to what to expect. my God. Yep. Bill Gasiamis (15:41) tears of relief. Yeah. that is all often a very good sign. And then, a lot of people kind of built from that. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (15:52) Yeah. Bill Gasiamis (15:53) but were you, were you near the diabetic ward as well? Were you watching people, have amputations walking out after a few days and getting down about that, that they, why are they getting out so quick? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (16:06) So, you know, the the building which is opposite to the rehab facility on Parkville Road on the other side is the diabetic ward. Bill Gasiamis (16:11) Yep. Right. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (16:13) So those patients after their surgeries, after their treatments are shifted into rehab. And I could see that these guys are coming in and because initially I was a little curious that what’s happening here. This guy, you know, he’s he’s got an amputation and he’s just gone. After three days, four days, they would go away. So then they would new new patients come in, they would learn how to walk, then three, four, five days they’ll go away again. So I had no clue what was going on. But then over time I realized there was a diabetic ward. So those were guys was ob obviously coming in because of their neuropathies. They’ve lost some limbs. Some people were lucky, they only lost fingers, some people unlucky, they lost legs, arms sometimes. But it can be it can be quite challenging for them also, you know, certainly because it’s too quick. I I think stroke is still slow. It gets you ready, it gets you going, but it’s it’s slow paced. And now I’m an expert, I know what is gonna work. So I’m still completing three years in December. So With an exercise, I I know the stress and I know the difficulty and and and I can feel it. I can feel it that this will work. So in their in their case they don’t have time. They just lose a limb and they just have to learn in three, four days. Fortunately their brain is okay, so they are more you know, neuroplastic, I would say, but as compared to us. Bill Gasiamis (17:17) So was playing on your mind a little bit, seeing this difference in the way people were rehabilitating after an amputation compared to a stroke survivor. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (17:26) Yes, hundred percent. And considering that one of my family people, my uncles, cousins, far cousin, he had passed on because of this particular problem. And it because of the way the medicines and the medical system is in India, so I saw that he ha also had to be his one of his toes had to be amputated. and he had a neuropathy and then he lost his foot and he eventually died because of kidney problems. So this does happen in diabetic patients, very common. So it I kept thinking of those those days, you know, when I would I would hear of him, we would go and visit him in hospital. So it’s very different. They are Bill Gasiamis (18:02) Hmm. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (18:03) more conservative, they try to save the limb. Here they are more aggressive. They say that we if there’s a the there’s gangrene here, we want to cut from here and we want to make sure that you’re safe. Your life is safe. So they they are more aggressive here. Over there, they say, We’ll try to save this, we’ll try to save this, we’ll try to save this. So it’s it’s different. We have Bill Gasiamis (18:18) Yeah. So I’m to make a few huge assumptions. You’re a male, you’re Indian and your culture probably makes it difficult to accept care, especially when it comes to physical care. you know, being treated as stroke survivor in a rehabilitation hospital, when your left side’s not working means that people have to shower you and, help you at the bathroom and all that kind of stuff. What was that like for you? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (18:47) It was hard. Then that was another time when I was really crying. Maybe it happens to everyone, you know. I’m not special. But I I was I was quite emotional and it took me a couple of days to get used to my brother in law coming in, and he said, I’ll do it for you, man. And he’s he’s a champ. And he would come every day. So it’s in our culture, it’s it’s I think it’s maybe egoistic or maybe it’s how we are. That the elder people or the boys are more looked from a perspective of as providers and caretakers. So I remember when my father passed on in 97, I was told that be strong for your mom, be strong for your sister. And then when my mom passed on in 2013, I was told the same thing: be strong for your sister. But there was one of my friends, one of my uncles, who told me that, you know, you need to do something, you need to have a couple of drinks, go to a corner and just cry it out, man. It’s important. So now I know that grief is important. and I was I’ve been told that stroke is a part of a grief and you should not suppress your feelings. Like I can do with that box of tissues right now. I can go all out. No problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bill Gasiamis (19:50) Yeah, man. I’m the same. was just talking about my situation a few days ago. This happened to me in 2013. Brain surgery was in 2014 and I cry all the time. It’s not really like it’s strange. Have you heard of the super pseudo bulb affect? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (20:06) Which one is that? No, so no, I’ve Bill Gasiamis (20:07) It’s a condition. It’s a condition where people who with neurological injuries tend to cry, or laugh Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (20:14) More. Bill Gasiamis (20:15) more and out of the blue suddenly. And often at the beginning, it’s a very difficult to control. And then later it gets better. But then for me, I, you know, a couple of years ago, I was told to go and do a presentation for the Royal Melbourne hospital neurosciences, gala ball to, to tell them what stroke, sorry, what neurosurgery meant to me, you know, like, I’m only standing there because of neurosurgery without it, I wouldn’t be standing there. My surgeon was in the room. It was 400 people in the room. And I got up and I didn’t make it to the front lectern before I started crying. And then when I got up to say the speech, I was holding on to the lectern, just waiting for the crying to stop just so that I can start the speech. And then through the speech, I had to stop a couple of times. Now I wasn’t upset. I wasn’t sad. was, I was excited, but the 400 people and the, situation talking about me, my family, et cetera, and having to describe what neurosurgery meant to me made it impossible to get through that speech. I got through it, but it was, Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (21:16) Yep, yep, yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (21:20) but it was interesting to go through that, you know, 13 years, you know, 12, 13 years later, like it was, yeah, crazy. So, Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (21:25) Two thirty news, huh? So Bill Gasiamis (21:28) It’s not uncommon, very, very common. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (21:30) So tell me something, is it easy for you to have a poker face? Bill Gasiamis (21:34) If the, not in a, not in a situation where I have to talk about something that’s emotional, that’s about me, my experience. And if my family involved, forget about it. can’t stay out kind of the poker face. No way. Yeah. But I can in a poker game when we’re trying to take somebody else’s money. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (21:52) I think same, same. So it’s similar. I can I can cry on animations also. And my son says that he’s crying, you it’s on animation also. It’s a good movie. Good movie story. And that’s you’re done. Bill Gasiamis (21:59) Yeah. Yeah, I used to cry with the cat tripping over or something Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (22:05) Ha ha ha. Bill Gasiamis (22:06) silly, know, crazy stuff. And my wife would be going, what are you crying about now? I don’t know. I’m just crying. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (22:12) Short short. Bill Gasiamis (22:15) And the difficult part is not me. It’s the people around me thinking that I’m sad or thinking that there’s something wrong. And that’s reeducating them so that they know that’s not what’s happening. what’s today today we’re recording on Saturday on Thursday night. I was in Melbourne at Marvel stadium. there was an electronic dance music festival, 60,000 people in a stadium for a DJ. It Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (22:39) wow. Bill Gasiamis (22:39) was a most amazing electronic dance laser show. It was sensational. Now my wife didn’t see because it was too dark and she was focusing on the show, but you know, I had about three or four moments where I cried. But it wasn’t big cries, it was just tears and excitement and something else happening that made me cry. And I was moved by the fact that I was A, at the event, B, it was such an amazing event that all the people there were having a great time. Like, it was moving rather than sad or upsetting or, Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (23:14) I understand. Bill Gasiamis (23:16) and telling, kind of trying to bring people into understanding that that’s what’s happening. That was the hard part because you know, we’re from a Greek family. They see you cry. Everything’s terrible. Everything’s bad. You know, they don’t know. They don’t know how to deal with it. You know, so you’ve got to reeducate people. That was the hardest part of that experience for me. That’s all it was. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (23:37) No, because I keep thinking that since I was always in sales and I enjoyed my sales, I don’t know if that’s gonna settle down ever with me, my emotions. Bill Gasiamis (23:47) will, it will settle down and then sometimes it will just come out of nowhere and you won’t, you wouldn’t have expected it. Yeah. It changes for a lot of people. remember interviewing one gentleman. can’t remember his name now. And on the, on his wedding day, he told me that he was almost dehydrated from crying so much, you know, and he needed to continue, continue his fluids so that he doesn’t dehydrate. It was. We laughed about it like you and I are laughing. Cause that’s he’s got to that stage where it’s like, wow, you know, it is what it is. Like no big deal. He was totally moved by the fact that he was a alive, able to be at the wedding, get married to the person that he loved. and then, and then later on they had a kid and it was down all downhill again from there, you know, more tears, more crazy stuff. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (24:33) Yeah. Bill Gasiamis (24:34) It’s, it’s, it’s involuntary. And I think it’s actually very helpful for me. It’s helpful to just get it out. Like what your mate said, you know, just go into the corner and have a cry, get it out, and this whole thing, you know, our culture is the same and many cultures are the same. It’s like, you know, the men are not supposed to show emotion. You’re supposed to toughen up, you know, be stronger for everybody else. And nobody checks in with you to say, you know, okay, how are you doing now? That’s That’s just how it is. Many cultures are like that. So who’s Hannah? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (25:05) So Hannah was my first physio who was, you know, it’s it was quite moving for me from that perspective as well. Because I I always thank and thank my stars that I got unwell in Australia. Because there are so many systems here which help younger people like NDIS and got all kinds of help. And and the medical is top-notch. The medicine is top-notch. The first day that I remember they took me to the physio room. I had this pretty girl. I c we couldn’t see them because you know it was post COVID so everybody was still using masks. But I could just see the eyes. And she was so beautiful. So she sat on the floor and she was moving my foot. So it was quite moving for me, even now. Sorry for that. Bill Gasiamis (25:41) Yeah. Yeah. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (25:42) So that was Hannah. Initially, my book was supposed to be called Walking with Hannah. So, but one of my advisors told me that look, if the book becomes really popular, then she is gonna benefit more. Change the name, man. Change it. And there are different privacy laws in Australia. So just to make sure that you are around the privacy laws, don’t put anybody’s name on it. Bill Gasiamis (26:03) Like you’re on the ground. She’s moving your leg or your foot and she makes you a promise that you would walk again. Now that’s a pretty big deal to hear that from somebody who’s in the rehabilitation space trying to help you to recover. And I think at the same time, that’s kind of when you had the realization that you should write a book. how did that come about? What was the, why did that carry so much weight that situation? The Promise of Recovery and Writing a Book Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (26:33) Should I be ready with our tissues? Have you had people who really, really break down badly on a show? Is it okay? Bill Gasiamis (26:39) Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, it’s okay. And yes, they have. Yeah. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (26:43) So I think in that situation For me, only that one promise coming from a physio was a big deal. I wanted to share with my friends, I wanted to share with my clients. I’ve got a lot of good people in my book, and vice versa. So I I wanted to share with all of them what I’m going through. So I was constantly taking pictures, recording voice notes. I was not so good at typing because you know I just had gone from two hands to one hand. So I just couldn’t type. So I was I was doing a lot of voice to text notes, I was writing notes, I was taking pictures, I was taking videos. We are very audiovisual. I am very audiovisual rather. So I was really doing a lot. And then I also have a habit of listening to audiobooks. And I was doing prayers and I was listening to audiobooks. I don’t even remember what book I was listening to. maybe I think it was Andrea Gossi the one. I was listening to that one. Moving story. Good story. So I thought, hey, why why don’t why can’t I convert all this what I’m writing into a book? So and I had ample time. So I thought Bill Gasiamis (27:41) Yeah. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (27:42) I was like, yeah, let’s do it. It was not it was not a business model. It was not Bill Gasiamis (27:45) Yeah. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (27:45) something which will actually make money. There was no thought around it. I just Bill Gasiamis (27:48) Yeah. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (27:48) wanted to write a book. I was just emotionally wanted to write a book. I was just compulsive. I wanted to write a book. That’s it. Done. Yep, yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (27:55) I love it. I know that I know that feeling like same same here when I wrote the first book, Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (28:01) Yes go. Bill Gasiamis (28:01) the unexpected way this joke became the best thing that happened. It was like, I’ve learned all of this stuff. And I kind of don’t want to forget it. I want to have it in one space. I want to capture the moment as well. Like it’s like a time in history, a snapshot Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (28:14) Yeah, yeah. Bill Gasiamis (28:14) of history, you know, that book. And if I can just put everything in a book, then I could well, I could have a book, but then if people want to buy it and it helps them. then that would be a bonus. So it was the idea was about that. And then, of course, when you have a book, you may as well have the best book, and you may as well sell as many copies as possible. Well, what’s the point of having a book otherwise, you know, you want to make sure that it gets sold. So I really relate to what you’re saying about that. My book idea came in hospital as well. So no, the podcast came in hospital as well. I was getting wheeled transferred from the Royal Melbourne. to Parkville and I was waiting in the transit lounge and that is when I had the idea to start the podcast, but I was never going to do it. I don’t think I was going to do it. A friend of mine put the idea in my head later on again. And because of that, the podcast emerged. I had the idea, he reinforced it. And then I went ahead and did it. And the book again was an idea from another friend. You’ve learned all this stuff, know, you know, how, are you going to do with it? You how are you going to… tell other people about it. The podcast was one way and then the book was another way. And of course, then it’s not just about me, it’s about other people as well. Now, if I understood correctly, are you from the religion, the Sikh religion? Did you seek right? Cultural Identity and Personal Beliefs Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (29:37) Yes, I’ve yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (29:40) And in the religion turban is quite important. How was that? How is dealing with that situation where your left side doesn’t work and the use or the need to have a turban on your head, do you kind of deal with that? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (29:57) So I’ve been through times in my life when I was without a turban for a couple of months because I had a ac I had a small unfortunate accident with my Jeep. So I had to cut off a little bit of hair, so I just didn’t bother p going back to the turban initially. So and and I was I’m not very religious, religious. So And I was very proud of my turban because people used to tell me that your turban looks fantastic, man. You’re the best looking Sikh we’ve we’ve seen around, you know. So I was quite proud of it. And I was I used to feel on top of the world with my turban. So every every trip of mine, every travel of mine, I had to pack a couple of turbans and and I’m I think I am O C D. So I used to match it with my shirt. Sometimes I used to match it with my ties. It should should be the same color. Sometimes I’ll match it with my jeans. So you know it was it was quite a task. Every time I’m traveling. But I loved it. Having said that, I decided that my son is not gonna be a turbanator. I called myself a turbanator because of the same reason. I said that’s one thing less to take care of. It’s not that I don’t w want him to be a Sikh. He he realizes he’s a Sikh. He’s a good Sikh. He does what I do in the Sikh Sikh temple as well, which is serve. But from a religious perspective, he’s okay. He you don’t have to have a turban on your head to be that religion. You know, you can be a good person from that religion perspective also. So I was very proud of it and not being able to do it initially was a big blow to my ego or my you know image in my own brain. I lost I lost my identity, I I thought, and and my my prayer consisted of that that you know I hope I can go back to tying a turban. Even you can see I still don’t dye a turban. A lot of my friends tell me that I look good like this. The man bun suits me. But you know, I’m like, okay, go with the flow. Well, let’s see, let’s see. Bill Gasiamis (31:37) Yeah. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (31:38) Yep, yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (31:39) so it’s challenging for people, right? Like if somebody is wearing a turban for their entire lives, then they have a stroke and then they can wear a turban because they can’t tie a turban. Then you can understand why that would be impactful in another way, you know, to their identity, to, their beliefs, to all the things that are associated to a turban. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (32:00) You know, it was it was more like a shame. It was more like Bill Gasiamis (32:03) Uh-huh. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (32:03) a shame of an uncovered head, nothing on the Bill Gasiamis (32:06) Uh-huh. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (32:06) head. Because whenever my father would get up in the morning, he’ll make sure that he just wraps around a cloth around his head. When I would whenever I would get up in the morning, I’ll put something on my head, then I’ll go out. So, you know, we had a smaller version, we had a bigger version, which was a formal more formal thing. So we were always used to having something on the head. So it’s what which was more shame shameful, you know? Yep, yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (32:25) Yeah. Is it personal shame or is it or back in the day was a shame within the community from other people? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (32:33) I think we were we were brought up both ways. So personal shame number one, and a lot of times when we had gone to temples with a cap on my head, for example, some elder would come up to me and they were this is a very conservative community also in those times. You know, they would tell Why you wearing a cap? Just take it off. If you like wearing a cap, you can just cut your hair. Or if you know, Sikhs and smoking don’t go together. So it’s not that the religion says that you can’t smoke. Since they are warriors, they’re supposed to be a warrior race. It was just said that you don’t do any kind of bad thing to your body, just take care of yourself, be healthy. So if if if someone saw a Sikh smoking in public, they will definitely go up to them and tell them that if you are a Sikh, why you smoking, man? You should cut your hair. Just take it easy. So things like Bill Gasiamis (33:10) Uh-huh. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (33:10) that. It was a very conservative society and it was a taboo. Smoking was a taboo, for example. So that’s how we grew up. So that’s the turban part. But I was I was more more spiritual and I was just more Personally ashamed of not being able to do it. Bill Gasiamis (33:23) Yeah. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (33:24) But I think it’s it’s it’s worked well. So I’m I’m kind of in a in a gray area now. You know, I’ve come back to hair. So I I will I will I’m open to tying it again. I want to do it, but I’m not rushing it. I know it’ll Bill Gasiamis (33:34) Yeah. Yeah. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (33:36) happen. It’ll happen one day, 100%. But I’m not Bill Gasiamis (33:38) Yeah. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (33:39) too eager. Yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (33:40) a lot of stroke survivors get tattoos. Did you get a few? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (33:43) yes. This one for example And it’s got my son’s name here. is it? It’s here. That’s Raj, Raj, yeah, that’s his name. So Bill Gasiamis (33:55) Uh-huh. Is that the impact that arm that, the arm that was impacted by the stroke? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (34:00) It’s it’s very funny you asked that because you know we were not very pro tattoo. I mean, to to risk due respect to everybody who’s got a tattoo. It’s not it’s nothing negative. But we we were not very inclined to color our bodies in any r any way, right? When we grew up. So, but but there’s a friend of mine who was visiting me in hospital. He had a few, and he was in New Zealand for a long time. So he was he had that Kiwi influence, he had a Kiwi wife. my first nurse who sat with me and she told me that, you know, you’ll be fine. And she held my hand. So she had a few. So maybe that had my had an effect. And then my brother in law said, he said, just don’t worry, man. When he’s when he saw me upset, he just told me, he You don’t have to be upset, you’re alive. Just just get okay, get a few tattoos, just travel around the world, do that. So, you know, that was that’s just got stuck in me. That okay, I want to do this. So I did it. Got it done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bill Gasiamis (34:52) Was it like also, I Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (34:54) Mm. Bill Gasiamis (34:54) think you mentioned in your book, it was like a bit of a protection. Is this some, is was a way to change the conversation? what other role did it serve? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (35:03) So, you know, at that point I got it done specifically at that point because of the same reason. So I wanted to get it done, but I didn’t know when. So I just thought of it. I remember one day I was walking past someone and he was coming to that table and he sat down and people asked him about his tattoo, which is that which he had on his leg. So I was like, hey. So people are just noticing that. He’s such a gorgeous looking guy, man. He’s well dressed and look at his specks, what he’s wearing. Look at the car, he’s come in. So he was quite polished. So and still he had tattoos. So the it broke the s the usual stereotype, you know? Everything that’s stereotypical. So I thought, yeah, I think this is the right time for me if I want to do it, because people will not notice my little limp. Because I was still limping and I was in a bad way for for at least a year. I was quite negative in my mind. I mean, and especially when I was 120 kilos, I don’t know what to do about do about it because I could not exercise, I could not cycle. Just didn’t know what to do about it. And I could not fast at that time because I I was having so many medicines morning and evening. So it it would call a cause acidity. So I was quite negative end of the spectrum. But that’s the time when I realized when I then I thought that I don’t care about anybody else. I am just doing this, man. So I looked up a few people and this lovely girl who used to come to drive for me, she took me around we were in Perth at that time. So she took me around my house and we went we visited a few places and then there was this lovely gentleman who was coming to Perth and he was apparently from Melbourne. So that was my turning point. So this happened in December. I booked him for for my appointment for for my tattoo in Perth. But then he told me that he he said, look, if you want to move back, if you are moving back eventually, because I had that in my mind. I wanted to move back. So he said if you’re moving back, I’m based out of Melbourne, just come to me there. So that’s when it happened. That was my new year gift to myself. And everybody was so, you know, amazed with my the the thing which I had done on one leg. And they were like, Wow, that’s a good one. Man, where do you do it? I was like, there’s a special guy who does this. So I was just end up talking of that and not of anything else. I was so happy. I think, Bill Gasiamis (37:00) I love it. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (37:00) yeah, that helped that helped in my recovery for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Relocation and Its Challenges Bill Gasiamis (37:02) Great distraction, great distraction. Yeah. That’s a great idea. So one of the things my wife says to me every so often, she says, we should go live in a different location for a little bit, know, try the beach or whatever. And I’m thinking, well, you know, that sounds like a great idea. But in my immediately in my mind and in my body, I tense up and I just find that thinking about moving. emptying a house, filling another house, doing all that stuff just fills me with like dread. And I don’t know why it’s her idea is a great idea, but I just feel kind of comfortable or whatever. But I wouldn’t think of moving. You moved your family back to Perth. And what was that like? Because. I can’t imagine leaving Melbourne and going to Perth and packing up the whole family, the whole house and all that kind of stuff and doing that. Not because I can’t do them. I can’t live in another location because I can’t do all the work that comes with that before and all the work after. It feels like it’s going to take up way too much of my attention, time, energy. What was the move like for you? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (38:10) So imagine if you can say that ten, fifteen years into your stroke after recovering so much. So for for even that far recovery is difficult for them. So doing it one year into the stroke, or I would say one month into the stroke and moving everybody lock, stock, and barrel. I think that was the silliest idea I had. But my family supported me and we did it together and we did it. But it was pretty lonely for me. I was pretty lonely. We had no friends, we had no support system there. Although we were in a very good place, we were very central as compared to the country here. Because we were st always struggling to get physios in, OTs in. So it was, you know, a constant struggle. So over there we were central, so everything was okay, we’ll do this. It was just bang on. And I spent a good time just learning I mean, getting myself stronger, walking every day in the morning. So that was the positive. But I was quite negative, in here. Physically I was positive, but mentally I was quite I was a goner. Bill Gasiamis (39:03) Isolated, Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (39:03) But Bill Gasiamis (39:04) you isolated yourself Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (39:06) Yep, yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (39:07) unwittingly. Like you didn’t expect that that would happen. Is it just something that happened later? You, realized later. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (39:14) And plus, you know, I my my job, I my job questioned me that why should we not terminate your thing? Because we don’t have much in Perth. So if even if you become okay, why should we not Not let you come back. I mean, so we had the discussion and they almost fired me, but they were happy to take me back when I was back in Melbourne, but they still let go of me. So I don’t know where what happened. I don’t have a job. Bill Gasiamis (39:36) Yeah. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (39:36) So yep. So I think that was a very silly decision. But that whole year I spent like that in December, I moved for my son’s holidays to my sister’s house in Melbourne. She’s also in Melbourne, and we were there for about two months. she’s in the Bay side. So after spending that quality time with family and people who were familiar, I had friends visiting me, I had people visiting me, I had so many doctors, I had these doctors’ support system from RMH. supportive stride strides workshop, which was happening, things like that. So it was it just helped me recover. And I thought that this is it, man, that this is what I should do. And and then I was, you know, I was still talking to my psychologist over the phone, and she in the book by mistake, I I just wrote a he. I think I missed the S because of this bloody autocorrect. She told me that look, you need to wear your seat your life jacket first. You know, that was one statement. Ha ha. made me calculate and rethink. So that’s when we decided, okay, let’s come back. So twice, twice in here. Yep, Bill Gasiamis (40:38) Well then. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (40:39) yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (40:40) You need to wear your life jacket first. That’s Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (40:42) Yep, yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (40:44) such an amazing statement. And also, it’s really important for caregivers to remember that that they need to wear their own life jacket first. Because caregivers go through this with their loved ones, whoever they’re caring for that had a stroke, and they put themselves second. And then they suffer, they suffer because they haven’t got time to themselves because they get on well. And often with people who are very kind of motivated to help their loved one. Often they end up becoming sick and passing away before the stroke survivor. So everyone needs to put on their life raft, their own life jacket first. Once they’re stable and everything is okay, then they need to assess what they can do for the other person. I love that. Such a profound statement. I can see why it moved you so much. Often stroke survivors also complain, not complain, but they mention when somebody says, just think positively. what was it like for you to hear that? Just think positively Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (41:43) Okay. The Importance of Caregiver Self-Care Bill Gasiamis (41:44) statement. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (41:44) I think my an analyzing people was out of the window. I was not analyz analysing anyone. I’m I’m not even judgmental as a person. So I don’t easily judge. I trust people at the first instance. Sorry. So it was quite common to hear that all the time. And I wouldn’t even tell anybody that I’ve had a stroke. I wouldn’t tell them. I will just talk to them. I will try to hide my walk. I don’t know, I was a little shameful. I don’t know why. For example, I’m reskilling to be an allied health assistant at the moment in Boxhill Institute. So it took me about six months before I disclosed to my class that, you know, I walk funny sometimes because of my stroke. Because I just didn’t want to tell anybody. I was a little apprehensive. And when I warmed up when everybody got to know me and I was I’m like probably the friendliest in the class. So everybody likes me. So then I told everybody, they’re friends. I said this is this is what has happened, that’s my book. Please read it. See if it helps someone. And I don’t know if this book is gonna actually help someone or not. I don’t know if there’s no scientific information in that. There’s no medical information. But what is gonna help in that book, I’m not sure. But the idea was just if even it can help one person. Bill Gasiamis (42:46) Yeah, that’s the thing. That’s interesting. I put podcast episodes out all the time. I I’ve got no idea which part will help, but somebody will reach out and they’ll pick an obscure part of the podcast episode. I’ll say that really helped me hearing that really helped me. And I was like, okay. Cool. We’ve, we’ve, we’ve achieved our outcome. It helped you. I’m happy that it helped you. And because everyone is in a different position and they’re looking for different types of information and you know, what’s, the timeline that they’re in in their recovery, whether it’s emotional, mental or physical is unique to them. So that one word might be overlooked by you and me, but then somebody else goes, that’s just the word I needed to hear. And that’s why 400 episodes of the podcast are really good because there’s something in at least one of those episodes for everybody, you know, so it will, it will help. It will make it so that people maybe even if they just realized that they can write a book, maybe if they realize that they could just share their story, that’s all, that’s good enough. Adjusting to a New Normal So, how about this whole new normal statement? Now some people are told that they have to adjust to their new normal. And I kind of, I see why people say that it helps with acceptance in some situations when you have to let go of how you went about the past, how you did your life previously. when you were more physically able-bodied or more cognitively able. So how did you handle the new normal comment statement? Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (44:20) I obviously didn’t like it initially. But then, you know, the whole religious part and how we’ve been brought up, it’s with a lot of acceptance. So which is, I think, important for a child sitting next to someone who’s a nobody, or for a child who’s sitting next to someone who’s super duper rich. Maybe he’s a prime minister of the country, but they are sitting on the same level and having food, for example, on the floor. Someone who’s sitting next to you who’s who cleans houses on the floor. They’re humans. So I think that probably got me ready for the acceptance. I mean, that that primed me for the level of expect acceptance we had. I had to work less towards accepting things. and yeah, for example, I can’t run at the moment. But then what I say to people about that, that it’s overrated, I don’t care. You know, for example, so that’s it. That’s my acceptance. That’s what I do. Make a joke of it, man. That’s it. You can’t do it, you can’t do it. What do you do? Bill Gasiamis (45:11) Dude, it is overrated. That’s the I’m going to use that now as well. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (45:16) Yep, yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (45:18) In a couple of weeks, I’m going to go and spend some time away with a friend of mine. I’ve got a really amazing friend. We grew up together. He used to work at the Royal Melbourne hospital when I was there. He was a radiographer and he would come and see me when I was admitted. He would do my scans. Amazing. Like I’ve known this guy my entire life since I was about four years old. And we’re going to go and spend eight days just away from the whole family, the wives, everybody. We’re just going to go to Hawaii for a little bit. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (45:46) Are you going running? Bill Gasiamis (45:46) He said to me, I wake up in the morning and I go for a run. I said, fantastic. I’m going to wake up in the morning and go for a walk. You go for a run. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (45:52) Yeah. Bill Gasiamis (45:53) I’m not running. I can’t run. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (45:55) You can run either, huh? Yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (45:56) Not anymore. No. My left leg, my left leg goes down a little bit differently from my right leg. And because I have proprioception issues and the feeling is not correct, I never know when it’s exactly in the right position. And I risk injuring my knee because sometimes I can overextend, hyper extend. And, and Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (46:15) Yep, yep, yep, yep. I know exactly what he’s saying, yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (46:17) I’m really concerned. And also my ankle, I’m not comfortable with my the foot going down and my ankle being solid. So I don’t want to run. I can run across the road to make sure that I’m safe and there’s no car coming too fast or injuring me, but I’m not running two kilometers or a marathon or anything like that. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar (46:37) I think walking is better. Yep, yep, yep. Bill Gasiamis (46:38) Yeah, I have to think about it too much as well. And it makes it more fatiguing, more exhausting. Ramandeep (bobby) chaggar

Röther, Christian www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, Religionen

A conversation with Ada Palmer about building the future with humility, the process of creating a science fiction world, and many spoiler-heavy deep dives into the world of Terra Ignota. Mentioned in this episode Books and works. Ada Palmer, Terra Ignota — Too Like the Lightning, Seven Surrenders, The Will to Battle, Perhaps the Stars · Ada Palmer & Jo Walton, Trace Elements: Conversations on the Project of Science Fiction and Fantasy · Ada Palmer, And Loki in His Prison (forthcoming) · "Somebody Will" (song) · Bill Bryson, At Home · Giorgio Vasari, Lives of the Artists · Ursula K. Le Guin, A Wizard of Earthsea · Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet · Boccaccio, Decameron. People and places. Tyler Cowen · Teresa Nielsen Hayden · Johannes Gutenberg · Francis Bacon · Michelangelo · Villa I Tatti (Florence) · Worldcon · the Terra Ignota Discord. Transcript Ada: Stop telling stories about a thing as if one person did it. Tell the story of how a whole team of people did this. And when we look at the major innovations of the past, recognize their plural and often anonymous origins and shapers — and ask: will we be content if we end up being the anonymous contributor to future generations having this wonderful thing? Introduction [00:00:26] Ben: Today I'm excited and grateful to share my conversation with Ada Palmer. Among many other things, Ada is a professor of history at the University of Chicago and the author of several books, including the science fiction series Terra Ignota, which now lives rent-free in my head. In the words of the inimitable Tyler Cowen, this is the conversation that I want to have — which means the vast majority of it is an extremely nerdy, extremely spoiler-heavy discussion of the Terra Ignota series. The spoiler warning comes around the one-hour mark, but rather than making you stop then, I'd recommend stopping right here, going and reading the entire series, and then coming back. We'll still be here. A podcast about the unwritten workings of a fictional future is a vaguely legitimate segue to noting that I've brought Idea Machines back after a very long hiatus, for a fairly specific reason. I'm still going to dig into the people and systems that turn ideas into reality, but with a particular focus on knowledge and stories that are in people's heads and aren't yet written down or recorded anywhere. Even in the age of the internet and LLMs, there is so much that can only be discovered through conversation — and that, I think, should be the point of podcasts. So with that, here's my conversation with Ada Palmer. "Somebody Will," and making peace with not seeing the end [00:01:57] Ben: This is actually a very selfish question. Your song "Somebody Will" is one of my favorite songs. Ada: I had to practice for six months before I could sing it without crying while singing it. It still requires great concentration. Ben: I sometimes cry a little when I listen to it. If you're listening to this and you haven't heard the song, you should stop and listen to it, because it's amazing, and we will be here when you get back. Okay — assuming everybody has now listened to the song. I think it captures the fact that ambitious projects take many lifetimes and the labor of many people who are only contributing indirectly, in a way that I feel nothing else does. And that fact feels very at odds with the cultural milieu today, where — at least for me — it feels like you personally need to be working on the thing, and if you can't get it done within your lifetime then you're a failure. So how do you internalize that personally? I constantly feel this tension: I believe the message of "Somebody Will" is true, and at the same time I cannot feel satisfied with it. And how would you get more people to internalize it? I feel like the world would be better if more people did. Ada: I have the advantage, as a historian, of being used to thinking on century and multi-century timeframes — of looking at how many of the things we celebrate or think of as important were multi-generational projects, and how few people, even among the ones we talk about as if one person achieved the thing, actually saw that achievement bear fruit, or even near-full fruit, within their lifetime. Lately I've been asked about Gutenberg a lot. From Gutenberg's perspective: I invented the machine, I used the machine, the machine worked great, the sales didn't, I went bankrupt, and I died in poverty. In the later part of his life he got to see other people starting to build printing presses and trying to print — and also going bankrupt. The books were starting to circulate, and everyone was saying, "I don't know about these new weird books, they're different from the old ones." So if he judges himself on his lifetime achievement, he judges himself negatively. The ongoing effects of the Gutenberg revolution mostly happen well after his death, and after the deaths of his first generation of apprentices, in the mid-1500s and moving toward the 1600s — and there are stages of it still happening in the 1700s as it democratizes access to knowledge, which is something one could anticipate it would do, but not see. So many of our best and biggest projects are like that. In fact, you very rarely have a project that comes to fruition within its beginner's lifetime. But it requires us to look at history to feel that. Another factor is that we're so often pressured not just to look short term, but to look very short term. My friend Teresa Nielsen Hayden, a brilliant editor, has a very apt saying that I think about a lot: we always overestimate what we can accomplish in a year, but underestimate what we accomplish in five years. If you look at yourself and ask, "What did I do this year?" you'll always judge yourself harshly and be disappointed. But if you make the list of "What did I do in the last five years?" you'll say, "Oh, wow, I accomplished a lot" — even though each individual year felt like you didn't meet your own standards. And another part of it is that yes, there is a melancholy to "Somebody Will." It's about a kind of surrendering acceptance: that you will not be there to enjoy the thing, that you are working on something so that others will enjoy it in the future. That requires remembering that the same is true of the people in the past who worked to give us what we enjoy — that there is a teamwork across the diaspora of time, in which we all have to love the future generations we are helping and accept that they will get benefits we will not. Because otherwise, what are we doing? Ben: Let me poke at this one more time — and the answer might be that it's impossible. How do you get to serenity with the fact that we're working on a very long-term project that needs many people who are not going to be the person remembered for the thing, and that this is important and worthy? What actually goes on in your head? Ada: Again, there is a mournful side to it. And we therefore need to encourage a culture that celebrates all the contributors. Stop telling stories about a thing as if one person did it. Tell the story of how a whole team of people did this. And when we look at the major innovations of the past, recognize their plural and often anonymous origins and shapers — and ask: will we be content if we end up being the anonymous contributor to future generations having this wonderful thing? Because what matters to me isn't that I get thanked for X. What matters to me is that I helped make sure X happens. That separation of credit is important. I remember thinking vividly about this after reading a book called At Home — by, I think, Thomas Madden, although I may have the name wrong [it's Bill Bryson] — which is a fun popular history about all the objects in your house and how they developed. The history of the table knife, and the chair, and the chest of drawers, and the kitchen; how houses were originally one room and came to be subdivided into multiple rooms, and what the front hall is. It's a really fun, light history, essentially a string of delightful anecdotes. But I noticed that he would sometimes talk about the inventor of something we have — the inventor of the egg whisk or whatever — and then, if the inventor of this useful thing didn't end up rich and famous as a result, he described that as a tragedy. His definition of tragedy was: somebody contributed something that benefited the human race, and they didn't become rich and famous as a result; they lived an ordinary life as X, Y, or Z. Ordinary life was the tragic outcome. I snagged on that. What are we doing if living the life that most people live, having also contributed to the sum total of human happiness, is your definition of tragedy? He had this very strong sense that it was an injustice for someone's name not to travel with their invention, and for someone not to become rich as a result of their invention. And it was such a narrow portrait of what it could mean to contribute to human thriving — one that assumes only the inventor contributes, and not the hundreds of thousands of people involved in the distribution and manufacture and improvement of the egg whisk, who also bring things that help our daily lives. It felt so un-Baconian and unscientific. Bacon, when first arguing for the scientific method, says there is no greater act of charity and love than to do something that helps every human being after you live a better life. In its original articulation, that is its own reward. But the idea that it should be a ladder to fame and social rise, as opposed to something one achieves and is proud of — I think that's where we get snagged, and where we get these stresses. To contribute to humans reaching the stars is to contribute to humans reaching the stars. It is not to be the name that becomes famous. Whose labor counts [00:11:27] Ben: It's an open question to me how you make more of a culture of that. Ada: Part of it is that we have to start evaluating contributions more equally, because we have a really unfair way of thinking about labor, where some types are celebrated and high status and others are low status. This goes way back. It's true in the Middle Ages: any job you do with your hands is low status, and any job that is intellectual work is high status. This is why Michelangelo's father was absolutely rabid against Michelangelo being a sculptor. They came from a banking family, and Michelangelo's father did intellectual work — banking — and it would be a shame upon the family for his son to work with his hands and be an artist. The outcome of this over the course of the Renaissance, via things like Vasari's Lives of the Artists, is that they make the argument for art being intellectual labor — for an artist like Michelangelo to shift status from being thought of as manual labor, like a carpenter, to being thought of as intellectual labor, a peer of a doctor or a scholar. And we now consider art to be a high-status intellectual occupation. But we still have these horrible terms like "unskilled labor." Go watch anybody doing so-called unskilled labor for an hour and you think: holy moly, this person is really good at this. The speed and the elegance with which they have optimized this set of skills is incredible. It takes many kinds of labor to do something. But at an academic institute, we do not celebrate the people maintaining the site or preparing the food in the kitchen as contributors to the thing — even though it's absolutely essential, and without it the thing can't happen. That is a terrible problem. And more and more I see people talking about the world as if only a tiny elite are serious contributors and everyone else is just a dot moving around. An NPC. I was being interviewed about the singularity — this idea of trying to maximize the computing power that Earth produces in order to speed up how quickly we create an AI god. The interviewer asked what one thing would contribute most to maximizing Earth's computing power. And I said: well, obviously it would be UBI, or another way of solving poverty. Because right now the majority of computing power on Earth is human brain cells, which vastly outnumber the computational power of computers. And a large share of that computing power belongs to people living in poverty, whose capacity is being diminished and sidelined onto worrying about where tomorrow's meal is going to come from. When you provide a safety net at a reasonable standard of living, so that people don't have the anxiety that poverty causes, people become way more creative and generative, and start new businesses. All of our UBI experiments show outpourings of art, discovery, entrepreneurship, increased generation — all of which contribute, second order, to Earth advancing. And the crowd who thinks about this was just blown away by thinking of, A, the human brain as computing power, and B, poverty as the largest drain upon the computational powers of the Earth. Ben: People don't think about second-order effects enough, period. Ada: There is no symphony hall without its janitor. There is no symphony hall without the workman in addition to the architect. And we celebrate one of these arbitrarily and not the others. Why is that? Is it because the construction worker is doing something athletic and manual? Well, we celebrate sports people, and they're doing something athletic and manual. It's a totally cultural construction, which of these occupations are celebrated and which are not. Ben: So we just need to celebrate everybody. Ada: Celebrate ninety percent of the occupations — and identify the ten percent where it's actually, this is a waste of a human being. Ben: This is a waste of a human being, and we should not have a human being doing this. That's where we bring in a robot. Ada: Right. But there's all this discussion of "let's have the robots replace everything everyone is doing." No — when human beings are doing things that are stimulating and creative and make them happy, leave it alone. But if we have a robot that cleans out the gutters, that would be great, because nobody is stimulated by cleaning out gutters. Ben: Or does boring paperwork. Ada: Oh, that's the dream. Where the Hives came from: a lunch table in Florence [00:16:44] Ben: Shifting toward Terra Ignota — but not yet to the spoilers. You spent a lot of time in Italy. How did that affect the creation of the Terra Ignota world? Ada: A lot, specifically via Villa I Tatti, an institute owned and run by Harvard but quite independent, in the outskirts of Florence. It's not on the hill where the Decameron takes place; it's on the hill next to the hill where the Decameron takes place — to anchor it in literary geography. It has fellowships, so scholars from all over the world come there, about two dozen a year, for a year-long residency. And one graduate student at a time. I was the graduate student. You're sort of there as a bright-eyed, bushy-tailed mascot. Ben: So it's a bunch of senior scholars and you? Ada: A lot of them are postdocs — they're starting their careers, they've finished their PhDs recently. There are usually two or three senior scholars resident, and then two dozen who are at the next stage from where you as a PhD student are, and from whom you can learn exciting stuff. Some are later career. And they're from all over the place — and they've usually gone all over the place, on similar postdocs and for research. I remember vividly being at a group lunch. There was a married couple there having a conversation with a couple of other people. The mom was Australian and the dad was Spanish. They had two kids, one of whom had been born in the US and another in the UK. They'd lived in France while the kids were little, and now the kids were medium-sized and in Italy, attending a polyglot school. And the parents were discussing the different citizenships the two kids were eligible for, and the benefits and drawbacks of each. "You get this with a UK citizenship, but you can't have that. You can have UK and then US, but you can't have US and then UK. These benefits versus those benefits. And if the kids have two different citizenships, is that bad for them relative to each other? Does it make them feel envious, or unspecial, or special compared to their sibling?" It was such a buyer's-market conversation about citizenship. They were strategically sitting down and asking: which ones do we want to apply for, which ones do they already have, what are the utilities of each one, how do we feel about the governments and the values that they advance? And it made me think: what if everybody had that conversation? What if it were normal, when you're coming of age, to sit down, think about all the citizenships in the world, decide which ones you think are best, and choose — rather than having it fall upon you by accident of birth? It made sense to me using the EU, where people have free movement, as the model. When you're in the EU, you may have been born in France, but your family is Polish and you feel Polish because you grew up with them and visited family and learned the language — or you don't, and you feel French, and that's up to you. That freedom of movement, where who you are isn't where you live, it's what group you identify with, felt so plausible for a future in which technology means mobility is getting faster and more natural, and we choose jobs and homes based on location rather than being limited by geography. Plotters, pantsers, and the tyranny of past you [00:20:42] Ben: I don't know that I've ever heard you talk about your writing process in any detail. Fiction writers — some are plotters, some are pantsers, some are in between. Where do you fall? Ada: I have an essay on Tor.com arguing that the difference is less binary than it feels. For those listening who don't know the definitions: a plotter is somebody who plans ahead, outlines, has a whole plan for the story before they start writing it. A pantser is somebody who plunges in and figures out the story, or the characters, or the details, as they're writing. Here's my argument that these are less different than they sound. If you're a plotter, you're spending extra time planning at the beginning — making your outline, revising your outline, thinking about order and structure, rereading the outline, getting a sense of how it flows and fixing that. Then you implement it, and you do comparatively less revision at the end. Whereas a pantser will plunge into writing six months earlier, figure out those structure questions as they go, get to the end, and then often do more revision — doing to the manuscript the revisions that the plotter would do to the outline. So you're doing the same steps, you're just doing them in a different order. Everybody still does the "hmm, let's think about the pacing; this character has too many chapters where they appear all together and then they don't appear for a long time; I have to think about the balance of that." Everybody does that step. But do you do it before you write the first draft or after? That's the real difference. And you can have a very meticulous story where you figured it out as you went and then went back and put things in earlier to make it all work. I am at the far extreme end of planner. I world-build for at least five years, and then I spend six months doing the outline before I sit down to write the first sentence. I outlined the entire series — chapter by chapter, all four books — and had a complete plan for the whole thing before I wrote the first sentence of the first chapter of the first book. I then followed that outline incredibly precisely. Often when I'm writing I'll get to a point and think, maybe this bit of the outline is wrong, maybe I should do this other thing instead. And I'll start doing the other thing, and work on it, and get more and more frustrated, and wonder why it's going wrong, and whine to my bash'mates about it. And then I'll go back to the outline and realize: oh, of course. Past me is always correct. And I repent of having strayed from the outline. Because past me was in the middle of six months of being zoomed out, looking at the whole structure, really understanding everything being set up short term and long term. Whereas present me, in the middle of writing something, is very immersed in that one chapter and its valences and its emotion, and can lose sight of the work it's doing to continue things from five chapters ago and set things up for five chapters later. I was fully aware of all that when I did the outline, and I might be less aware of it in the act of writing. Which is why the version of me that was outlining is always more correct about what the chapter needs than the version of me sitting down to write the chapter. That's what the outline is for. Five years of worldbuilding, mechanically [00:24:18] Ben: What do you actually do, mechanically, for the five years of worldbuilding? What does that entail? Ada: A lot of it is that I'll have a notion. I'll be sitting at that table at Villa I Tatti listening to the conversation and think, wouldn't that be neat — that would be a really cool thing to explore in a story. I will then take the worlds I'm building, because I'm always building several at once, for several successive series. I'm currently doing the worldbuilding for the series after the series after the series of which the first book comes out next summer. Ben: That's so cool. Ada: I've already fully done the worldbuilding for this series and the series after it, and I'm worldbuilding the series after that, and a couple of others. They're sort of on a conveyor belt: the most assembled, the medium assembled, and the less assembled, as they move forward. I'll take the notion and go to my most assembled world, the one I intend to do soonest, and ask: does this notion fit? Does it combine well with the other stuff I already have in this world? Do they synergize? Are they compatible with each other? And if they are, I'll plop that new idea into the world. So I'll be working on a world where the key ideas are the flying car network, and voluntary citizenship, and a kid who can bring toys to life with a touch, and a revival of eighteenth-century ideas about gender. And then I'll independently get the notion of somebody being a professional living doll. And I'll ask: could that happen in that world? Yes, it could. What would that mean? Well, celebrity culture in a global world would have neat characteristics; the stuff I'm doing with gender would intersect with it in nifty ways. Neat. That notion, totally independent when I came up with it, can live in that world. Or I might have another idea, look at it in that world, and say: you know what, this isn't compatible with this world. The society of Terra Ignota — it doesn't fit. I'm going to take this idea and move on to the next world. And the first world it can go in is where that idea then lives. So worlds accumulate multiple different seeds. You'll notice that it's not that the living doll is derived from the other stuff — it's an independent idea. But once put in, the two connect to each other, the way trees in a forest develop shunts that send sugar to each other and keep each other alive and support the entire forest ecosystem, even though they began as individual and indeed competitive trees. The whole world develops from multiple different central seeds. Ben: Sorry, I'm very interested in the details of this. Are you writing these down on index cards? Ada: A lot of it will just be in my head. I also use OneNote, where I'll jot things down. There will be notes in OneNote that are sometimes a whole table with a chronology that develops over time, but also just a list of words I found evocative, or a reminder note to myself. I also email myself ideas so that I remember them, and there they are, searchably, in my email. I also sometimes write them on Post-it notes and leave them around the house. Sometimes something came to me and felt evocative from a picture — a work of art, or a postcard, or an image. Ben: You have your mood board. Ada: I'll put those by my bed, or in other places, and they'll make me chew on those ideas over time. But the majority of this will be in my head. Nobody could reconstruct the world from those notes. The notes are chaos, until I get to the late pre-outlining stage. I was probably working on the Terra Ignota world for four years before I started writing down the chronology. I do have a long timeline of events, from the present to the completion of the terraforming of Mars, with the dates of when everybody was born, when different cultural movements happened, when this or that historical war that's mentioned began and ended, and so on — a long, color-coded timeline. I'll probably share it at some point, but it's in OneNote, which is hard to export. I also have a custom Google Map which shows the Hive majorities in every major city on the globe, so you can see the distribution of the population. One thing I did deep into the worldbuild, preparing to think through the latter half of the series, was go through all the cities with a population above — I think it's ten million — that exist on Earth now, to figure out the future of each one, and then create several new cities that would be above that threshold by then. Making sure I wasn't skipping any cities. That I did Africa. That I did the Pacific Rim. That I had a global plan for this and not a non-global one. OneNote lets you combine text and note-taking with images, so for example there's one page that is a map of ancient Rome with my own notes on what is in each building in the reconstructed version of Rome in Romanova, where so many events take place. So the note-taking is extensive, but chaotic in my case. Ben: That is incredibly cool. I feel like there's a through-line in great artists and makers of things, where the thing that you see is the tippy-tip of an iceberg. Ada: It has to feel like that — especially for a built world. It has to feel real, it has to feel deep, it has to feel like it has all those things. Big beats, connective tissue, and the management of mood [00:30:35] Ada: Another thing about outlining, briefly. A word I've known a number of authors to use, that I kind of use too: when you're developing the story, there will often be a point at which you know what the big beats of the story are. Let's imagine we're outlining Romeo and Juliet. A big beat is when they meet. A big beat is when they get together. Then there's a sort of midpoint crisis, when the deaths of Mercutio and Tybalt result in crisis and Romeo has to be kicked out. And then there's the dramatic ending in which they die. And then you ask: okay, what other stuff do I want in this story? Well, I need to develop the characters of Mercutio and Tybalt, and that has to happen before the midpoint. And I need some comedy scenes — this is Shakespeare — so I need to put those in at some point. So you can imagine Shakespeare saying: I know what the big beats are. Where am I going to fit the Mercutio characterization scene? Should it be right before his death, or earlier, so that we're invested in his character for a while? I want a comedy scene between this sad major serious beat and this sad major serious beat, to vary the mood. Who can be in that scene? I need a lighter scene between Romeo and Juliet meeting and Romeo and Juliet getting together — what can I put there that will change the mood, so we don't have two passionate romantic sequences in a row? So you figure out the big beats, and then you figure out the in-between connective tissue. And sometimes you'll be aware that there must be a speech: I have this idea for Mercutio making this passionate, weird speech about Queen Mab, it's a lot of fun, where do I put it? There's some flexibility — it can be at any point before his death. It can be early, it could be at the beginning, it could be just before his death. How does the audience — or in my case the reader — feel about Mercutio's death differently if we've just come to love him right before, versus if we came to love him really early on and we like him almost more than Romeo because he had more character for half the play before this crisis comes? Many technically-pantser authors I know have figured out the big beats before they start, and then are filling in and improvising the in-between stuff, and might move it around at the end. So if Shakespeare were a pantser, he might have been writing along, and then: Mercutio's dying soon, I get to give him a speech — oh, this speech is so awesome, I want to move it earlier. And he'd move the Queen Mab speech from right before his death to substantially earlier, so that we care about this character for a longer period of time. That's exactly the kind of revision that a pantser does, and that I would do at the outline level, where I have everything on screen in front of me and I'm thinking: these three Mercutio scenes are really all in a cluster. Do I want that? Do I want a character who gets introduced and then, the moment we love them, they're gone? Or do I want to stretch this out, so this is a character with whom we have a longer emotional relationship? So that's core to the outlining process. We have these big beats. At some point we need to meet Saladin — when do we meet Saladin? Is it before or after the revelation of what Mycroft really did? How does it feel if it's before? How does it feel if it's after? Let's settle that. Because many things that happen in a story are not causally related. Some are: Romeo committing murder has to be before the Romeo banishment scene; those can't be reversed, because one causes the other. The "Juliet is sad because Romeo has been banished" scene follows from those. Those have to be in an order. But Romeo meeting Juliet versus the Queen Mab speech — those can be reversed. They aren't causally related. They're independent, except inasmuch as they both have to be early. And then the author gets to think through which is first and which is second, and what the effects of that are. So a lot of the outlining process is putting in the big beats, figuring out what has to be before and what has to be after, and what can go at any point, and then situating it in the right place — and also realizing when mood needs to alternate. One principle of reading is that we notice changes in mood and tension much more than we notice the absolute level. If you write a book with five super-high-stakes action chapters in a row, the reader gets tired of super-high-stakes action. It all feels homogeneous. It doesn't feel exciting anymore. The beginning will feel exciting, but it will then flatline experientially. Whereas if you have a high-paced action sequence, and then a low-mood piece where people are relaxing and something silly happens, or we cut away to the cooks preparing the banquet who are not at all invested in the action that's going on — then when we return to that high-stakes thing, it feels high-stakes again. You need to alternate sad with happy. You need to alternate tense with relaxed. You need to alternate fast-paced with slow-paced, so that people feel all of them more, compared to having a homogeneous mood. So sometimes I'll be going along and think: we've just had three or four chapters in a row where Mycroft, our narrator, is freaking the heck out and overwhelmed and in despair. We need a nice, calm Martin Guildbreaker chapter here, where he's patiently investigating something and explaining his investigation, because that will let us escape the mood — so that when we return to it, the grief being experienced by our narrator is vivid and exciting again, because we had a break. And also so that the complexity of trying to understand what the hell this narrator is actually saying is enjoyable again, in a puzzle-box way. If you do a puzzle box, you want to then coast and not do a puzzle box next — have something as a break, and then do the next puzzle box. I don't want to give you nothing but puzzle-box chapters in a row. I'm also going to give you a nice linear fidget-toy chapter, where you're enjoying manipulating the thing but there's not a puzzle challenge goal. Ben: Noticing the change in mood rather than the mood itself — I see that across many areas of how people notice things. People notice a thing changing more than the absolute level. Ada: You notice color in places where there is very little color. You notice beauty in places where there's very little beauty. Ben: Or changes in prices. People don't go around thinking "ah yes, this is expensive" all the time while the price stays the same. But all of a sudden a price changes and people react. Ada: Exactly. We very much operate logarithmically, and notice the change — the integral rather than the absolute amount, or the absolute speed at which something's moving. Designing the Hives [00:38:20] Ben: Related to worldbuilding — and if you've talked about this somewhere and I missed it, I apologize — how did you come up with the Hives in the first place? They feel so specific. Ada: When I had this idea at Villa I Tatti of "what if you choose your citizenship," I was thinking about it as deriving from transit — transit becoming easy. And then I thought: okay, what kinds of organizations would these be? If transit is suddenly really easy, if you can go anywhere on Earth in two hours, people are not going to want to put up with the frustrating, slow passport system. They're going to want that streamlined. I was thinking about the Global Entry program. This is a thing you sign up for, and it vets you, and it's trusted, and it's a third party but semi-governmental and semi-not, and it facilitates you being able to go much faster through the border. What if one of those became even more so, so that when you're a member you really can skip everything and zip around the Earth really easily? Well, if one of those developed, competitors would develop. What other kinds of focuses might a transit thing have? One of the things people would want to travel for is sports matches — people already do that. So there would be something whose whole shtick is: do you want to go see that game on another continent? We will facilitate that so it's easy. I also thought about CouchSurfing, which — I think people do it less now — but you sign up to say "I've got a couch," and others sign up to say "I'm traveling to a place," and the thing itself facilitates being friendly, and there's trusted-person vetting. And that idea became the Cousins: the idea of having a cousin in that town, who you may never actually have met, but they're not going to be too weird, because they're your cousin. You have this slight bridge of trust. So what if there was a company that stepped in to capitalize on what CouchSurfing is, but make it more formal, and called itself the Cousins network, and its motto was "what if you had a cousin in every town — we will hook that up"? I could see that company having started out more like CouchSurfing, where it's about where you're staying, and then branching into facilitating your ticket. And then Gordian being the one that really was just like Global Entry — a simple profit-seeking company that would do this. And then when the moment of the Great Renunciation comes — this is all background to the book, of course — these suddenly become political associations, when they had just been memberships. The way you might have a membership in Costco. The European Union is already this. But if people have a membership in Costco, often that means they have certain values, as well as desiring to buy cheap bulk things. So you could imagine that if suddenly there were a major global crisis, and Costco said, "Okay, everybody who has a Costco membership — we kind of trust you, and we believe you share our values of paying people a living wage and making sure things flow. Do you want to transition to being a politically active group?" And everybody who has a Costco membership would say, "Well, actually, yeah. In fact, it does make sense at this weird juncture in human history to transition my Costco membership into being part of a political association that's in favor of a living wage and making sure people eat." And you could see Costco transforming itself in a real crisis into a big series of pop-up mutual aid and new community kitchen things. That could totally happen. Ben: They already make a lot of hot dogs. Ada: The infrastructure is there, and the number of people with a connection to this thing is there. So it's the sort of thing that in the moment of the Great Renunciation could do that. And I imagined lots of other Hives being born like that. And then I asked: what new ones would be born, when suddenly this is political? Well, one of them would be the Masons — because there's always this sort of "oh no, I'm not in any of these groups, I feel left out," among the large slice of the population that feels drawn to strength and claims of tradition and claims of strong authority. And here are all of these legends about this being that. So if somebody cunning steps in and mobilizes it, they could make the Masons be born at that moment. And meanwhile, science fiction nerds are really well connected with each other. We all have community groups that organize Worldcon and all of this, and authors who can speak up and say, "Hey, all my fans — this thing, it's time to act." So it was plausible to me that Utopia could form very quickly in that moment of crisis as well. So part of it was: what groups and corporations and things that already exist could do this? And I remember wanting a really corporate one — this is the Mitsubishi in the end. What kinds of things last over time? The obvious choice would have been to be like Google or something. But when you look over time at corporations that really last multiple centuries, they tend to do very plural things. They tend to be consortia of multiple corporations rather than one. And they tend to be defined around a market or a world ethic rather than a product. Look at IBM, which has not become one of the giant Earth-owning corporations, but has sure steadily existed and never had a crisis. A big part of that is that IBM defines itself as: we make products for corporations. Whatever new thing needs to be made for corporations, we will start making that. If people develop a completely unprecedented new technology, that is what we will do, and we will orient it around having an established, clear relationship with corporations. So even if the computer ceased to matter economically tomorrow because it was replaced by the genetically modified super-eggplant, they would transition into corporate-focused genetically modified super-eggplants. And they would make that transition fine, in a way that Apple — which defines itself as an electronics company — would have struggled with at the time. Though Apple now is also a media and entertainment company, which is broader. So the Mitsubishi Group, which is not one corporation but dozens and dozens of corporations that make a wide variety of things and are a consortium with each other, is a corporate structure that's likely to withstand multiple multi-decade, multi-century tech tumults and still be coherent. That's why I picked that. Ben: Were there any Hive ideas that got the chopping block? Any that almost made it in? Ada: None got the complete chopping block, because of course one of the structures of this is that there have been fewer over time and they've merged. So the other ideas are the ones that are mentioned briefly as existing — like OBP, which stands for One Big Party. Ben: Which merged with the Humanists. Ada: They merged with the Humanists. But that was globe-trotting so that you could go to concerts and parties and get-togethers, rather than sports matches. There's enough overlap between those ideas — because you're traveling to enjoy an event — that it makes sense those two could merge, with a focus on both sports and art, concerts and performances: a focus on wanting to go enjoy and behold a human being doing something excellent. So you could see how they'd share a compatible ethic. Similarly Greenpeace, merging later with the Mitsubishi — but not fully yet. Would there be a group that would form centered on environmental custodianship, and wanting to take care not of people but of baby elephants? What would that be like? What countries would it have — not just a bunch of enthusiastic members, as it would anywhere, but massive, systemic, big cultural buy-in as opposed to small cultural buy-in? In the same way that sports fandom is bigger in some countries than others, or science fiction fandom is bigger in some countries than others even though it's present everywhere, personal investment in land and the value of land and land custodianship varies a lot. I was interviewing friends from all over the place, and it sounded, from talking with them, like India was the place where people had a very strong cultural investment in land. One interesting quality of India in the international world is that people in India are much more reluctant to sell land to a foreign owner than in most cultures. There is lots of land in India owned by corporations, but they're Indian corporations much more so. And people are likely to turn down a foreign buyer making an offer on property — whether it's large-scale property or even just a house or a bungalow — because of this sense that India's land should belong to India's people, which is stronger than in many other cultures. And this isn't a "we don't want foreigners dwelling here." We'll happily rent to a foreigner. It's the idea that the land should stay in the hands. I thought that would be an interesting place for Greenpeace's big nest of power to be centered, as it values land and land custodianship. And then I was thinking through: in this global future, who inherits all the national parks? If the nation-states are giving way to successor states, do the national parks dissolve, or does one of these say, "We're going to be the one" — and have what become global parks, and a huge portion of the unpopulated world in their ownership and custodianship? [Sponsor break — Seedhouse. "Buying a house is a big decision. Planting one isn't." Seedhouse grows carbon-negative homes from a single architect-designed seed: choose your floor plan, check your soil, and in twelve weeks you're ready to move in. The house faces the morning sun — and also turns toward the morning sun, which takes some getting used to. Need another bedroom? Order the right clipping, graft it, and wait. Visit seedhouse.com and use code IDEAMACHINES for a free guesthouse acorn. Seedhouse: put down roots. Literally, quite extensive roots.] The fandom, and the people who stop after book one [00:49:24] Ben: Last unspoiled question. How do you feel about the Terra Ignota fandom? Ada: It's great. I've never had anything but the most positive interactions with readers, and I love discussing the big meaty questions. A story that is as big and meaty as this one means really thoughtful, interested, eager people who want to chew on ideas. Ben: It feels like it's really touched something in the zeitgeist that even other good science fiction has not. Ada: I think it holds up an example of a future worth having and worth living in, with lots of exciting things one can push for. And a future of strong and respect-worthy values. One of the things about Terra Ignota is that, with very few exceptions, all the characters are philosophically self-examined and noble and have good ideals — ideals worth fighting for. And even though people come into strong conflict with each other, you respect and love both sides, because these are great people and they're fighting for great things. Ben: It's not a "there's a bad guy," which is so common. Ada: It's a neat vision of the future: what if everybody, even the people we fiercely disagreed with, was awesome, and we were disagreeing about important implementation or values — but underneath that, everybody was great? What if we have this high portrait of what humanity is and could become? Because one metric of progress is how rich we are, and another is how long we live. But what if another metric of progress is how excellent our conflicts are — so that we only have conflicts when it's about some really important, worthwhile cause? We don't have conflicts about grievance, or oil, or profit, or moral panic. We have conflicts about important philosophic principles and fundamentals. Wouldn't that, even though there's still conflict, be a form of progress? Ben: Peace is one form of progress, but moving to "this is a war worth fighting" is another form of progress. That's fascinating. Ada: And "I respect my enemy" is a form of progress. I love when Terra Ignota readers embrace and really want to live by some of these principles. I do sometimes feel like we could organize into a political advocacy group and crowdfund a lobbyist who advanced the values of this. Ben: Let's do it. I think that would be really cool. Ada: I would love to see it happen, because there are very important values in it — including the "what if we love the future and work for the future, but aren't vain about it, and do so with humility?" Now, one thing I sometimes run across— Ben: No, say what you were going to say first. Ada: No, I want to hear yours. I'll say what I was going to say anyway. Ben: Okay. The thing that also almost surprised me is how it really has something for everybody — there's a Hive that everyone feels kinship with. The obvious opposite would be Harry Potter, where of course you want to be in Gryffindor; Gryffindor is awesome, maybe Ravenclaw, but everybody else is kind of meh. When I interact with other people who love Terra Ignota — I'm a Utopian, and at first I assumed everybody else who likes this is going to be a Utopian. But no. I've run into people who identify with every Hive. Ada: And also sometimes people who say they would be a Graylaw, or who say "my religious identity is so core to me, I think I'd live in a reservation." I do run into that as well. And — great, there's space for you in this cool world. The world needs to respect you too, and have room in it for that, and needs that population, and needs to interface with them more as the narrative unfolds. I worked hard for there to be breadth. And I worked hard to think through: if these Hives were the Hives that formed from other Hives merging with each other, if there used to be dozens and now there are seven— Ben: What's the spanning set? Ada: Exactly. And what bigger and bigger ideas came together under umbrellas? Ben: Okay — what was the thing you were going to say? Ada: I sometimes run into people who say, "Oh, I'm a big fan of Too Like the Lightning," and who haven't read further. It's a little perplexing to people who are completionists and read the whole thing, but there's a not insignificant swath of people who read book one and haven't read the rest, who are very excited by the glimpse it shows of this future, but didn't continue on to see the way it then critiques the imperfections in this future — and shows the future recognizing its own problems and critiquing itself and becoming dynamic, and by the end being on the path to incremental improvement. I find it interesting talking with people like that, a lot of whom are Silicon Valley people. When you're an author, one thing that's the case is that you can log into Amazon and it'll show you this little map of America with how many copies of your book have sold in each region. So I know how many copies of Terra Ignota have been bought in New York City versus Arkansas versus elsewhere. For practically all books, the largest sales are New York City — New York City is very big, very populous, and they read a lot of books — and usually Silicon Valley is second. With Terra Ignota it's the other way around. So it is disproportionately popular among a world of people who see their technology transforming our lives and want an apparatus for thinking about what its future will be — one that is not just yet another cautionary tale about how the thing they're making could be used by a dystopia to make the world worse, but also how it could be used by a positive future to make the world better. I love that it's popular there, and I love talking to tech people who are eager to talk to me about it. But every so often I'll get this chilling thing, where one of the things in the world-build that for me is definitely negative and should be raising your alarm bells, they will have seen as positive. Ben: I'm sure you know the meme: "Ah yes, we have built the Torture Nexus from the book, Do Not Build The Torture Nexus." Ada: Yes. With its much-needed sequel, No, I Meant Don't Build the Torture Nexus. I had a conversation not long ago with a person who said they loved how Terra Ignota was basically a world without crime — an interesting thing for them to observe, because of course we know that's not the case— Ben: That's not the case, and that's not the mechanism by which it's not the case. Ada: And this was, in their reading, because of the trackers and universal surveillance: that it was an exploration of how universal surveillance could be great and could cause the end of crime. And I said: well, firstly, there is crime. But secondly, the reason the universal surveillance isn't that bad in Terra Ignota is that the governments are so good — because the buyer's market for citizenship holds governments to great degrees of accountability. If they misused this data, there would be public outcry, and then a mass movement against the government that did it, as citizens switched to other Hives. That accountability means that when the data is misused — as indeed it is, as we see over the course of book two — there is a consequence, speedily, for that misuse. The governments, being accountable, cannot abuse it. And the person just looked really sad. Because clearly, to this person who worked for a surveillance tech company, this was a hope that a surveillance tech future could be good, not bad. They hadn't thought through that it's the political change and the levels of political accountability that make it plausible that in such a future, surveillance tech would not do the harm it can do in a future where governments have a lot of power and not a lot of accountability. So I always find it interesting to see people who see a particular thing they're looking for in a future in Terra Ignota — at least in book one — and then didn't follow that journey forward to be challenged by it. But I love the people who read all of the books and followed me through the journey of: what if we have this future, and it's a great future, but it's not a perfect future, and it recognizes that, and it has to go through growing pains and work to become even better? Because one of the things about a utopia in the classic sense is that it's static. It's achieved this perfect state and it's unchanging. A book that is a true classic utopia basically feels like you have arrived in the city and they say, "Hello, stranger! Would you like to learn about our perfect public transit system? Now would you like to learn about our perfect public education system?" Welcome to Finland — we would like to lecture you on the superiority of all of our social and technological institutions. And you're like: actually, Finland, you're really great at all these things, and I wish we could elect you to rule the world and implement all of these things in most of our countries in many ways. But it feels weird getting these tours of perfect worlds that then aren't also self-examining and dynamic. So Terra Ignota is a hopeful future, but not a utopian future, because it has flaws. I remember when the first book came out, a lot of the initial discourse — the first blog posts of its earliest readers — was arguing about whether it was a utopia or a dystopia, trying to put it in one bucket or the other. "It has to be a utopia, everyone's happy, the lifespans are long." "No, it has censorship and surveillance, it has to be a dystopia." People would talk with each other before thinking through that it's an in-between. It has a lot of things that are better than our present and a few things that are worse than our present, and a lot of great achievements and a lot of stuff that still really needs to change. And a realistic future is one that is still changing. ⚠ The spoiler line [01:00:44] Ben: I'm going to transition us to speak about that realistic future. So — this is the spoiler warning. Anybody listening after this point: we expect you have read all the books. You will learn what happens in them. We will not explain anything. This is the part I'm very excited about. Also, sidebar: the fourth book is actually my favorite one. Ada: It's the best one. I needed all the other stuff before I could do that. Ben: The speech about the Trunk War, and the in-path and the out-path — that got me. Ada: Like the composer of a symphony, I needed to introduce all the leitmotifs and establish everything so that I could then do the final movement, in which everything happens at once. So I do setup, and I do more setup, and I do more setup — and then I have the full resources of those three books' worth of background, so that I can jump in and do things with an enormous complexity and depth that can only work when you have built that far. How the economy works [01:01:51] Ben: Something you don't talk about very much in the books, but that I assume exists in the giant iceberg: how does the economy work? There are little hints — clearly there are still black markets, clearly there's some form of buying and selling — but beyond that it's really not explained. And we get hints that it works a little differently for different Hives. Ada: We also know that the Hives resolve police conflicts with each other: when a member of one Hive has committed a crime against a member of another, the Hive that the person in the wrong came from pays the other Hive, and then punishes their own person by their own techniques. So a Mason receives the punishment a Mason normally gets, which might be much harsher than what the Cousins would normally do — but the Cousins get a certain amount of money that is standardized for the crime. So money is used among the Hives to balance out their frictions. That means Hives are incentivized to discourage crimes by their members against other members, because it costs them a certain amount of money. But they're not super-mega-over-the-top incentivized. They would never spend half their budget on policing, because it's resolved. Within that, the economy works quite differently for different Hives. The Mitsubishi and Humanists are on a very capitalist, more corporate model. The Utopians are space communists. Everything you earn goes to space, and you receive back what you need to live. The constellations process things around, and there is enough for everyone to live in comfort, but you do not have private assets and private income. It's set up the way a monastery runs. If you have a job and are a monk, this is just true: if you're a monk and you also have a professorship, your salary goes to the monastery, and you still receive the same meals and support and housing and stipend that any other monk does. It doesn't matter whether you're in a high-profit or low-profit job — you're doing a worthwhile job, therefore the Hive supports you, or the monastery supports you. So they're fully space communists: everything goes into the Hive and comes back out. The Cousins have much more of a safety-net thing, where everybody has a guaranteed income, but you can also have additional income on top of that. And if you do have earned income, the Cousins take a very large slice of it in taxes, because they pay for so many services which both you and the world benefit from — and you feel good that, in a charitable way, you have funded schools and hospitals all over the world in a massive transformation. So that also appeals to somebody who, if they had supplementary income, would choose to give a lot of it to charity. You're sort of signing up in advance to have your income largely routed to charity, while you keep enough to live on and some more, so there's an incentive to earn more, but not a huge one. The Masons have a complicated thing — this is why it's not in the book. It's calculated: the value of your contribution to the empire. How valuable a subject are you to Caesar? A number is put on that. And if you have a job or occupation that earns less than that, then you receive a stipend from the empire in credit for the services you've done to the empire. And if you're working directly for the empire, as the Guildbreakers do, then you receive a stipend from the emperor. What it means is that a lot of Masons will fluctuate during their lifetime between "100% of my income is coming from a salary" and "now half my income is coming from a salary and half from the fact that I am a Masonic traffic guard, or whatever it is, working for Caesar." So Caesar pays this slice of my income, and my salary for something else pays another slice. And it's a point of pride to have more and more of it be your value from the empire — because then you're serving the empire better and doing more. Though there's also a point of pride in having a hundred percent from salary, so that you're not draining Caesar's purse. Ben: I bet there are the two different groups of people — the one high status and the other high status — and they beef a little bit. One currency, and the currencies underneath it [01:07:06] Ben: All of that implies some kind of single cross-Hive currency. Ada: You'll notice all the prices are in euros throughout the book. Whenever any price is named, it's in euros. And the presumption is that Romanova administers a kind of central bank — and that the Censor's office is key to the administration of that central bank. The Censor's office is fundamentally doing economic analysis as well as social analysis. Ben: Which sort of implies that Hives cannot operate like a lot of modern governments, where they print their own currency. Ada: They can and they can't. You can still do currency exchange with the reservations, which are very intentionally not discussed very much in the first three books, so that we're sort of curious and slightly alarmed. And then they become so vividly present at major key moments in the last book, and you have this sort of backwards — I've been thinking of this as the marginal barbarians. Wait a minute, that's the United Nations. That's me. We are those marginal remnants — that's the evolution of the way we live now. The other thing is that Hives can create internal fiat currencies of different sorts, that are tradable only among them and that only they would really care about. So for example, the Mitsubishi have this: you get one vote for owning different amounts of property. Property and votes move together, and there's a unit which is one vote's worth of property — a significant value of a thing. And the Mitsubishi pay a lot of attention to those circulating. So it's not a small currency, in that you would never buy a sandwich with it. It's a currency in which the smallest unit is $300,000 or $200,000, because it's the value of a condominium, basically. But people pay a lot of attention to it, care about it. They can't just generate more without building architecture — but they can generate more by the act of building architecture or buying property. And if Mitsubishi buys property, that transforms it from a thing that has cash value to a thing that has cash value and a vote's worth. And then it moves around. So it operates in a complex way, like a non-fiat currency — a currency where there is a real thing attached to this unit of currency — but they only change hands for big deals, not small deals. And then people commit their vote to a voting bloc, which supports a higher voting bloc, so you're delegating your voting power rather than exercising it independently. The campus system [01:10:26] Ben: I feel like I could talk about this for a very long time, but I have more spoiler questions. How does the campus system work? Ada: A campus is referred to a number of times but never really explained. It's not quite a university, because it's a cluster in one area of multiple educational options. A campus might have a major research university, and three different colleges with different focuses, and several trade schools. So you might choose to go to that campus to attend a research university. Or you might choose to go to that campus to get a trade school degree as an artisan and be a master glassblower. Or you might choose to go there and say: I like the mood of this campus. This is the Romanova campus, so everybody who goes here really cares about politics — but they want to do different things in politics. Some want to go to journalism school, some want to be lawyers and complete law school, some really want to be politicians, some really want to observe, some might want to be architects but are interested in political thought and how it informs architecture, so there's an architecture school there. And you might be going for different lengths of time, because you might be doing different successive degrees. You might say: I really love political thought, I want to be in the city where it happens, I want to be in the community of other people where all my fellow students are into politics. So even though I want to be a doctor, I'll choose to go to medical school there, and make friends with somebody who's there to do architecture, and another friend who's there to get a polylaw degree and wants to be a polylaw. But we get to mix and mingle and enjoy debating and discussing and observing politics, united by that shared ethic for my bash'. And then I made another place that's like: this is a campus designed for people who really love water sports. We're going to have fifteen different educational options — there will be a medical school, and a law school, and small liberal-arts-focused colleges, and a large research university here also — but all of them are structured around a bay that has really good surfing and where there are lots of boats. So if you're somebody who loves that kind of thing, and you think you probably want to have a bash' with people who share that passion, then you might choose to go to that campus. You choose based on the campus and its mood, not based on which school is best for law. You can choose any campus and get a law degree there. So it's more about expecting that this is a personally formative phase of your life, in which you're going to find your bash' and find your bash'mates. So you go to the campus where you expect shared interest with those bash'mates. And there are a few campuses that are dominantly Masons, where you go — you grew up a Mason, you're expected to be a Mason, you want all of your bash'mates to be Masons, and they do Masonic things, and probably you're going to join a hereditary Masonic bash'. But you still do need to go about finding your bash'. You might therefore choose to go to one that's dominantly Masons. But you could also go to the Romanova campus and be in the college that's a Masonic college at the Romanova campus, where one part of your social world is mostly Masons and another part is very mixed. Ben: Administratively, are they all one organization, or just a bunch of co-located organizations? Ada: Co-located organizations, with a central organization that maintains the campus as a whole. That organization doesn't do the admissions, or decide who's there, or what programs there are. But they collect money from all of the schools that benefit from the presence of this campus, and use that to maintain the grounds and the infrastructure and the safety and the boats. Or, in the case of the Romanova one, to have lecture series where they bring in statesmen to talk to the students. So the central organization organizes the infrastructure and incentives that make the campus desirable, but it doesn't run the individual universities and schools. Those are still independent. When a new campus is formed, it buys up a bunch of land and then either sells or leases that land to individual schools that want to develop there. Most often the format would be a hundred-year lease. And then after a hundred years we'll evaluate whether this school actually still is a major contributor to the thing or not — so that it's not constantly uncertain. There's a symbiosis between the campus umbrella organization and the individual schools, but the individual schools are themselves separately run. Ben: I love that. Ada: There are already parts of the world where there are three or four colleges really near each other — like Cambridge, Massachusetts, where there are people from Harvard and people from MIT mixing with each other, and one of the things the two schools do is benefit from each other. And the more your educatio

Last time we spoke about the fall of Hong Kong. As dawn broke on December 20, 1941, Japanese battalions tightened their grip on Hong Kong Island. While the defenders fought desperately at Repulse Bay Hotel, Wongneichong Gap, and the heights around Mount Nicholson and Mount Cameron, piecemeal counter-attacks by exhausted Canadians, Royal Scots, Rajputs, and Hong Kong Volunteers were shattered by rain, darkness, and poor coordination.Resistance stiffened at Stanley Peninsula, but ammunition ran low and hope faded. On Christmas Eve, the Japanese stormed St Stephen's College hospital. They bayoneted wounded soldiers in their beds, murdered doctors, and raped nurses in an orgy of horror that became known as the St Stephen's Massacre.On Christmas morning—forever "Black Christmas"—Governor Young surrendered the colony after seventeen days of fighting. As white flags rose, Rear-Admiral Chan Chak and a small party made a daring escape by sea under fire, eventually rescued by Chinese Communist guerrillas of the East River Column who would save hundreds more lives in the months ahead.   #219 The Malayan Campaign Part 1: Bicycle Blitzkrieg   Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on history of asia and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War. Now in the last episode we spoke about the battle of Hong Kong, which of course was fought on Chinese territory and did involve Chinese participation. I took some time to think about what aspects of the early Pacific War should be covered in depth here, ie: what pertains the most to the Chinese experience. We are not going to talk about the Philippines or Dutch East Indies, but the Malayan campaign and fall of Singapore I would argue need to be dived into. There was a lot of ethnic Chinese participation in this campaign. No worries after this brief series on the Malayan Campaign we will be jumping back to China. Following World War One, Britain sought to counter growing Japanese ambitions by establishing a major naval base in Singapore during the 1920s. The location offered strategic advantages, particularly its exemption from the Washington Naval Treaty's non-fortification clause, making it ideal for housing a powerful deterrent fleet. The plan was straightforward: maintain overwhelming naval superiority to discourage Japanese expansion. Yet this calculation proved dangerously optimistic. Japanese aggression accelerated throughout the 1930s, while the European war's outbreak in 1939 drained Britain's resources, leaving its Far Eastern colonies—Malaya, Burma, and Hong Kong—dangerously exposed. Churchill remained convinced that Japan would not strike in 1941, prompting him to channel reinforcements toward the Mediterranean theater. The defensive strategy hinged on buying time; should Japan attack, British forces would delay the enemy while holding Singapore as a fortress until relief arrived. This plan contained a fatal flaw: Britain lacked the capacity to actually send reinforcements to the region. Commander-in-Chief Robert Brooke-Popham led Britain's Far Eastern Command from Malaysia, acutely aware of the challenge ahead. Lieutenant-General Arthur Percival commanded ground forces comprising 31 poorly trained infantry battalions—approximately 88,600 personnel total—largely untrained for jungle warfare. These troops were distributed across three divisions. Air defense proved equally problematic. With only fourteen squadrons flying outdated aircraft, the RAF faced a critical shortfall. Squadrons were scattered across multiple airfields: Vickers Vildebeest and PBY Catalina aircraft at Seletar; Bristol Blenheims at Tengah; Brewster Buffalos at Sembawang and Kallang; further Buffalos and Blenheims at Sungei Patani; Lockheed Hudsons at Kota Bharu; and additional Blenheims at Kuantan and Alor Setar. Allied units occupied three strategic zones. The Indian 11th Infantry Division under Major General David Murray-Lyon held northern Malaya, defending airfields and the Thai frontier from positions near Kota Bharu, Jitra, and Alor Setar. These installations remained lightly garrisoned and vulnerable. The Indian 9th Infantry Division occupied central Malaya, tasked with holding delaying positions at Jitra and Gurun—positions themselves poorly constructed and uncoordinated. Australia's 8th Division under Gordon Bennett anchored the south near Mersing and Johor, forming the last line before Singapore's fortress. Singapore itself bristled with coastal defenses and commanded a substantial naval garrison, expected to repel any Japanese approach. A week before Japan's offensive erupted, Churchill sent Force Z to Singapore—the battleship Prince of Wales, battlecruiser Repulse, and four destroyers. Despite vigorous objections from admirals, particularly Captain William Davis, who warned the Prince of Wales without air cover would be "a hostage to fortune," Churchill overruled them, seeking to project confidence and maintain American goodwill. Admiral Sir Tom Phillips commanded Force Z. Known as "Tom Thumb" for his diminutive stature, Phillips sparked controversy—critics labeled him a "desk admiral"—yet Field Marshal Smuts called him "an admirable choice" and American Admiral Thomas Hart praised his administrative acumen. Phillips' record was mixed. He advocated astutely for tank deployment in Malaya and correctly questioned the Brewster Buffalo's effectiveness, urging Hurricanes instead. Yet he fatally underestimated the threat aircraft posed to capital ships, believing the Prince of Wales' anti-aircraft batteries could defend a maneuvering vessel. An unnoticed handicap compounded this: tropical humidity had disabled the Prince of Wales' fire-control computer before she ever fired. Force Z reached Singapore on December 2, 1941, amid misplaced confidence. Nineteen-year-old Richard Smith recalled: "Everyone believed the Japanese fleet was made of rice paper and string. We assumed we would crush them effortlessly." Churchill's public declaration seemed to goad Japan into action. Admiral Yamamoto responded decisively, dispatching thirty-six Mitsubishi bombers to reinforce existing aircraft and ordering intensive training for "ship-killing"—specialized torpedo and bombing attacks. Three air groups, led by Miyauchi, Nakanishi, and Shoji, trained relentlessly in low-level runs and ocean navigation. Phillips, stripped of air cover, commanded only aging destroyers alongside his capital ships. The stage was set for disaster. In November 1940, the German raider Atlantis captured the British steamer Automedon in the Indian Ocean, seizing documents destined for Air Marshal Brooke-Popham that exposed Singapore's vulnerabilities. The Germans shared this intelligence with Japan in December. By January 1941, the Japanese had also broken British Army codes, revealing the weakness of Singapore's defenses and enabling them to plan an invasion accordingly. The invasion of Malaya followed an audacious strategy devised by Colonel Tsuji Masanobu. Japanese forces would conduct amphibious landings in southern Thailand and northern Malaya, then push 400 miles through jungle terrain toward Singapore. The 25th Army, commanded by Lieutenant-General Yamashita Tomoyuki and initially comprising two divisions, led this operation, supported by Admiral Kondō Nobutake's 2nd Fleet, which provided convoy escort. Thailand's strategic position was crucial; the British could not defend it, offering Japan a favorable staging ground. Marshal Plaek Phibun, Thailand's leader, had informally agreed to allow Japanese passage but simultaneously negotiated with British and American diplomats, creating uncertainty. A second force, the 15th Army under Lieutenant-General Iida Shōjirō, was preparing to invade Burma through Thailand. If the Thai withheld passage by December 7, these forces would advance directly from Indochina. Brooke-Popham devised Operation Matador to counter the Japanese threat. This ambitious plan called for the 11th Indian Division to preemptively seize Singora and Patani—critical Thai ports essential to Japanese invasion plans. The operation's centerpiece was capturing the Ledge, a key terrain feature south of Patani. Control of the Ledge would allow British forces to block roads from Patani, securing retreat routes for the 11th Division and denying the Japanese access to rear areas. Failure would expose the British to encirclement and force withdrawal from Perak and Kedah. However, Matador faced insurmountable obstacles. Britain was uncertain whether Thailand would resist or accommodate Japan, and invading neutral Thai territory risked driving the Thai government into Japanese arms. Command hesitation, combined with poor intelligence, created fatal delays. Matador was never approved. Instead, authorities authorized Operation Krohcol, a scaled-down alternative named after the town of Kroh. This operation tasked a small British-Indian force with advancing into southern Thailand to capture the Ledge, destroy bridges and roads, and delay Japanese movements. Though far less ambitious than Matador, Krohcol represented Britain's final attempt at preemptive action. It would be activated only after Japan opened hostilities, but by then, opportunity had already slipped away.   On December 4, Japanese transport ships escorted by Admiral Kondō's fleet departed Hainan Island toward their objectives. Two days later, British reconnaissance spotted the fleet, but Brooke-Popham lacked authorization to intervene—he could only alert his forces. At 23:00 on December 7, Japan issued an ultimatum to Thailand, demanding passage and giving a two-hour response window. Unable to locate Prime Minister Phibun until late morning, Thailand was invaded hours later. From Indochina, Japanese Imperial Guards and the 55th Division landed at Phra Tabong and pushed northwest toward Aranyaprathet. The 5th Division's regiment landed at Patani while the division's main force seized Singora, quickly overwhelming Thai defenders. From Saigon, elements of the 15th Army conducted additional naval landings across Thailand but encountered unexpectedly fierce Thai resistance that stalled their progress. Just before Pearl Harbor came under attack, the Japanese 18th Division landed at Kota Bharu. The defenders—the 8th Indian Infantry Brigade under Brigadier B.W. Key, supported by artillery from the 21st Mountain Battery and the 73rd Field Battery—faced a daunting task. The 3/17th Dogra Regiment, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel G.A. Preston, held a 10-mile coastal stretch fortified with mines, barbed wire, and pillboxes overlooking the narrow beaches of Badang and Sabak, separated by estuaries and surrounded by creeks, lagoons, and swamp islands. The Dogras unleashed devastating fire as Japanese landing craft approached at midnight. Colonel Masanobu Tsuji observed that enemy pillboxes "responded with such overwhelming force that our men lying on the beach, partially submerged in water, could not lift their heads." The first waves were pinned down, with casualties mounting from artillery, machine gun fire, and Allied aircraft from nearby airfields. British Hudsons bombed the invasion fleet and stranded soldiers, sinking one Japanese transport and destroying seven of their own aircraft in the process. The defenders inflicted heavy casualties, but intense hand-to-hand combat eventually breached the line's center by 03:45, threatening the nearby airfield. Simultaneously, 17 Japanese bombers attacked Singapore with minimal damage and 61 casualties, surprising the British with evidence of enemy long-range aircraft. Japanese fighters and bombers dominated the skies over Kota Bharu and northern Malaysian airfields, demonstrating clear air superiority. Amid the chaos, counterattacks by Malayan battalions failed, forcing the British to destroy northern airfields to prevent capture. The defenders retreated from the beaches to Kota Bharu itself that night. As confusion engulfed British headquarters, Operation Krohcol commenced at 15:00. This scaled-down preemptive operation aimed to delay the Japanese invasion by securing and destroying the Ledge—a six-mile road carved through steep hillside with a sheer drop into a river. Blowing this section would severely impede enemy advance. The force consisted primarily of the 3/16th Punjab Regiment under Lieutenant Colonel Henry Moorhead, supplemented by engineers, traveling in Marmon-Herrington trucks provided by the Australian Motor Transport Company. Krohcol was undermanned from the start; the 5/14th Punjab Regiment and artillery battery failed to arrive on schedule, forcing the column to proceed without them. Crossing the border at Kroh, Indian troops encountered determined resistance from Thai police under Major Prayoon Rattanakit in Betong. These roadblocks delayed the Indian advance for two full days while Prayoon's officers simultaneously engaged Japanese forces at Patani. After several hours of combat, Japan and Thailand reached an armistice by midday, with Phibun granting Japan passage, though Thai forces remained neutral. Japanese forces at Patani, navigating poor roads but facing no opposition, began their advance toward the Ledge—approximately 60 miles distant—initiating a critical race against Krohcol to determine who would occupy this vital position first. Meanwhile, renewed fighting erupted at Kota Bharu as Japanese forces infiltrated around British strongpoints, causing alarm among commanders. By December 10, with the situation deteriorating, defenders received authorization to abandon Kota Bharu and withdraw south to Machang.   Just hours after the Pearl Harbor attack, Admiral Phillips ordered Force Z to intercept Japanese invasion forces in the South China Sea without air support. Phillips believed he could "finish quickly and escape to the east before the Japanese could organize a significant attack." Ten Brewster Buffaloes were assigned to support the fleet, but he departed without requesting their cover. Force Z failed to locate the Japanese fleet, which had moved northwest into the Gulf of Siam. By afternoon on December 9, Japanese submarine I-65 detected Force Z, followed by reconnaissance aircraft. When Phillips altered course toward Kuantan, crews grew complacent. Bert Wynn recalled shipboard conversation centered on sinking Japanese warships. A flag officer remarked to CBS correspondent Cecil Brown, "Oh, but they are Japanese. There's nothing to worry about." That evening, Brown questioned whether the British were overconfident given Pearl Harbor. Officers conceded theoretically but remained dismissive. One replied, "We just don't think the enemy is much good. They could not beat China for five years." At 11:00 AM on December 10, Japanese aircraft struck. Three waves of Nell and Betty bombers from Indochina, after more than five hours aloft, approached from the horizon. With no air support—Phillips had maintained radio silence—defense rested entirely on anti-aircraft batteries. Nells attacked at 12,000 feet, dropping 250 kg bombs. Repulse twisted violently, evading most, but one struck her seaplane deck, killing two dozen men instantly. At 11:30, seventeen Nells attacked at wave-top level, focusing on Prince of Wales. Nine aircraft divided their approach, flying below 100 feet from both bows. The ship's inexperienced anti-aircraft crews, hampered by inoperable radar from tropical humidity, struggled to track targets. Once torpedoes were released, the planes sped away, losing only one aircraft.   A single torpedo struck Prince of Wales near the outer propeller shaft. When restarted, water flooded engine room B. Auxiliary power failed, halting drainage and causing an 11.5-degree list to port. Her 5-inch guns became powerless; she slowed to 15 knots, severely crippled. At 12:20, twenty-six Bettys attacked in coordinated "anvil" assaults with simultaneous torpedo drops on both bows. Repulse evaded initially but two or three torpedoes found their mark. One crew member recalled, "Suddenly there was a massive explosion. I immediately knew we'd lost Repulse, for within seconds she took on a frightening list to port, so rapid no amount of counter flooding would save her." Captain's last order: "You've put up a good show, now save yourselves." At 12:23 PM, Repulse rolled over and sank stern-first, her enormous hull protruding vertically from the water. Men jumped into oil-blackened water; many drowned during hours of waiting while destroyer escorts frantically retrieved survivors. Cecil Brown described it as "a confusing, macabre game"—orange flames, white tracers, and gray aircraft "astonishingly close, like butterflies pinned on blue cardboard." With Repulse gone, bombers concentrated on the damaged Prince of Wales. At 12:44, a 500 kg bomb struck between her stacks where wounded crew sheltered, causing devastating casualties. Men ordered to abandon ship faced drowning if trapped below deck. Destroyers rushed in to save swimmers, though HMS Express nearly capsized in rescue efforts. Ten Buffaloes arrived as Prince of Wales sank—too late. One pilot recalled, "After an hour, lack of petrol forced me to leave, but during that hour I had seen many men in dire danger waving, cheering and joking, as if they were holiday-makers waving at a low-flying aircraft. It shook me, for here was something above human nature." In just over an hour, the battleship era ended: 47 British officers and 793 men perished, including Admiral Phillips. Repulse's captain later acknowledged, "The enemy's attacks were undoubtedly carried out magnificently and pressed home effectively. The high-level bombers maintained tight formation and did not veer off course." By December 10, Krohcol reached Betong, just 26 miles from the Ledge. However, a Japanese ambush caught them off-guard near the target, forcing retreat when they were only a mile away. The 5th Division's regiment reached the Ledge by midday, dealing the Indians significant casualties. By December 13, Krohcol was pushed back to Kroh, the operation failed. Meanwhile, the 5th Division advanced south from Singora toward Jitra. Major-General David Murray-Lyon commanded the 11th Indian Division's weak defensive positions at Jitra's road junction, unaware that the critical Alor Setar airfield had already been abandoned. His forces—6th Indian Brigade holding a 10-mile coastal sector, 15th Brigade covering the road, and 28th Brigade in reserve—had sent two delaying detachments on December 9. On December 11, Japanese tanks overwhelmed these covering battalions, inflicting heavy casualties. Murray-Lyon committed his reserves prematurely, leaving Alor Setar lightly defended. That night, Japanese tanks reached the main position north of Jitra, with the 5th Division following. Heavy fighting ensued between Japanese armor and demoralized Indian troops. British defenses penetrated around 06:00, forcing successive Indian units to be overrun. Murray-Lyon repeatedly requested withdrawal permission. At 19:30 on December 12, General Percival finally approved. Due to poor communication and confusion, the 11th Indian Division suffered heavy casualties but disengaged by December 13, withdrawing to Gurun. The primary British defenses in northern Malaya had been breached, the 11th Division severely weakened, and the Japanese advance down the peninsula had begun unstoppably. Percival's first significant defense occurred at Jitra on December 11th, intended to push the Japanese as far north as possible and protect remaining Allied airfields. The Japanese quickly overwhelmed the Indian defenders, and Colonel Tsuji observed the engagement firsthand: "Our tanks were ready on the road, and the twenty or so enemy armored cars ahead were literally trampled underfoot. The enemy armored cars could not escape by running away, and were sandwiched between our medium tanks. It was speed and weight of armor that decided the issue." Major General Murray-Lyon commanded the 11th Indian Division. A World War I veteran, he had served with distinction in the Highland Light Infantry, earning the Military Cross for bravery in Flanders and the Distinguished Service Order for his actions at Moeuvres. The citation stated: "For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. When the enemy attacked and penetrated the line after intense fighting and continual bombing attacks, by his courage and personal example he succeeded in driving them out and held his position against further heavy attacks with splendid coolness and determination." This was no desk officer, but a frontline commander faced with an impossible task. Murray-Lyon's division appeared formidable on paper but was severely compromised. It contained only two regular British battalions—the Leicestershire and East Surrey Regiments—with the remainder consisting of four newly raised Indian Army battalions and three inexperienced Gurkha battalions. The Gurkhas, though renowned as elite soldiers, were primarily composed of 18-year-old recruits fresh from deployment. Like all Allied forces in Malaya, the division lacked tanks while facing an enemy flush with armor. After only days of intense combat, Murray-Lyon sought permission to withdraw, convinced the Japanese forces greatly outnumbered him. Ironically, Yamashita's army was outnumbered two to one. The Japanese commander employed Blitzkrieg tactics inspired by his time as a military attaché in Berlin, coordinating air and ground forces with remarkable precision. His approach involved fast-moving tanks, bomber aircraft deployed as mobile artillery, and—most unusually—bicycle-mounted infantry. Prior to the invasion, Japanese planners decided bicycles were ideal for the tropical jungle terrain. Rather than shipping thousands, they seized bicycles from the local population. The offensive typically began with bombing raids on Allied defensive positions, followed by tanks smashing through. As defenders retreated, bicycle infantry continuously harassed and attacked, while coastal amphibious assaults flanked positions along the shore. Colonel Alfred Harrison of the 11th Indian Division reflected on the psychological toll: "Fatigue had stretched the men's mind to the limit and the moral ascendancy which the Japanese achieved in these few weeks included a psychic side. The troops were beginning to attribute almost supernatural powers to the Japanese." Yamashita had rehearsed these tactics extensively on Hainan Island, conducting exercises in amphibious landings, bridge destruction and repair, and jungle operations. The bicycle innovation proved revolutionary—troops covered greater distances more quickly with less fatigue, repeatedly outflanking British forces who found themselves pushed off roads and encircled. The rapid movements created a psychological multiplier effect; British commanders, mistaken about enemy numbers, believed they faced far larger forces than actually present. This "Bicycle Blitzkrieg," as it became known, echoed Mongol tactics—a single swift force striking multiple targets so quickly that enemies believed they faced several armies. Tanks were crucial to this success. The British had deployed no tanks to Malaya before the war, a fatal omission. Combined with bicycle infantry, Japanese armor allowed them to engage British forces before defensive positions could be established. Percival authorized withdrawal from Jitra, directing troops south to Gurun, but those defenses remained unfinished and the Japanese advance was too rapid. Percival later reflected in his memoir, War in Malaya: "This withdrawal would have been difficult under the most favorable conditions. With the troops tired, units mixed as the result of the fighting, communications broken and the night dark, it was inevitable that orders should be delayed and that in some cases they should never reach the addressees. This is what in fact occurred. The withdrawal, necessary as it may have been, was too fast and too complicated for disorganized and exhausted troops, whose disorganization and exhaustion it only increased." From the start, British forces stretched too thinly across a 14-mile front in challenging terrain—dense jungle on the right flank, monsoon-soaked rice fields and rubber plantations in the center, mangrove swamps to the left. Yamashita's concentrated attacks breached the line. Repeated retreats cost both personnel and equipment, as overrun positions offered no opportunity for evacuation and bicycle infantry prevented orderly withdrawal. The Jitra defeat exposed a fundamental strategic error: deploying under-resourced troops across Malaya's entire breadth rather than establishing a shorter, more defensible line further south, which could have shortened British supply lines while lengthening Japan's—a disadvantage the Japanese could not exploit. The Allied retreat continued southward to the Gurun area, though the chaotic withdrawal from Jitra itself inflicted more casualties than the fighting had—many frontline units never received withdrawal orders, while others became lost crossing the Bata River. Murray eventually fell back to the Muda River, establishing defensive positions along the Krian River some thirty miles south. Percival, increasingly desperate, realized his entire strategy had depended on holding the Japanese as far north as possible to minimize air threats to Singapore. The rapid Japanese advance made this impossible. Reluctantly, he ordered a general withdrawal south of the Perak River, while his field commanders pleaded for reinforcements they would never receive. Though Percival had an Australian division in Johor, he refused to commit them north, fearing a Japanese naval invasion further south could threaten Singapore itself.   As Yamashita's 25th Army advanced westward toward Penang, Japanese bombers subjected the island to daily raids. British command, recognizing the island as indefensible, evacuated European residents on December 17th—leaving the local Malay population to face the Japanese. Mrs Muriel Reilly's recollection captures the moment's bitter legacy: "it still hurts to think how the white race 'let down hundreds of similarly faithful servants who trusted in us, and looked to us for protection from the hated Japanese." The abandonment had strategic consequences. In their haste, the British left massive stockpiles of arms and supplies in Penang that fell directly into Yamashita's hands. More profoundly, local Malays turned against their former colonial rulers. Some historians now argue "the moral collapse of British rule in Southeast Asia occurred not at Singapore, but at Penang." Under subsequent Japanese occupation, Penang endured three years and eight months of hardship—food shortages, rampant hyperinflation from the "banana dollar," and systematic repression including comfort women camps and the Sook Ching massacres targeting Chinese communities the Japanese feared might become guerrillas.  The Japanese occupiers' fears about Chinese resistance were prescient. Among the Chinese communities of Malaya and Singapore, anti-Japanese sentiment had been building for over a decade. Since Japan's 1937 invasion of China, ethnic Chinese populations had viewed Tokyo with deep hostility. The Japanese invasion of Manchuria in 1931, followed by the escalating horrors of the Second Sino-Japanese War, had created a reservoir of determination to resist Japanese expansion wherever it might emerge. As British colonial authority crumbled, this sentiment transformed from passive resentment into active organization. The Battle of Jitra exposed a fundamental miscalculation: attempting to defend all of Malaya with an undersized army. A more strategic withdrawal to Johore would have shortened British supply lines while extending Japan's. As December ended, Murray-Lyon was dismissed from command—a casualty of circumstance. He had spent weeks preparing for the cancelled Operation Matador while neglecting proper defenses at Jitra and Gurun. At fifty-one, this decorated soldier, who had earned the Military Cross and Distinguished Service Order in the Great War, became a civilian during Britain's darkest hour. He was replaced by Brigadier Archibald Paris, equally inexperienced in jungle warfare, who paradoxically proved more effective by facilitating the retreat of Murray's division while inflicting unexpected casualties on overconfident Japanese units. By December 26th, the Japanese 5th Division and 4th Guards Regiment crossed the Perak River, preparing an assault on Kampar. This position was crucial—located halfway between Penang and Kuala Lumpur, its terrain was unsuitable for tanks and difficult to outflank, offering a rare opportunity to make a stand. Paris gathered infantry battalions, many composed of Jitra and Gurun survivors: British battalions from the Leicesters and East Surreys, along with Jat and Punjabi units including Sikhs. The 12th Brigade hastily dug trenches, strung wire, and cleared fields around Kampar's ridges to improve visibility. After three weeks of continuous fighting and retreat, the defenders' morale had collapsed. Colonel Alfred Harrison observed on Christmas Day: "fatigue had stretched the men's mind to the limit and the moral ascendancy which the Japanese had achieved in these few weeks included a 'psychic' side. The troops were beginning to attribute almost supernatural powers to the Japanese." The Japanese, by contrast, had grown accustomed to victory and approached each engagement with unshakeable confidence. Yamashita employed German-inspired tactics using aircraft as mobile artillery—vital in terrain where conventional gun placement was impossible. Engagements began with bombing raids on Allied positions, followed by frontal assaults to establish a line, then flanking maneuvers through jungle to encircle defenders. When the assault came from the western coastal roads, Japanese tanks struck the 12th Brigade along a three-mile rural stretch near Gopeng. Small arms and heavy machine gun fire erupted as infantry dismounted from trucks and spread into the brush. Some tanks advanced alone onto a bridge near Dipang, where they encountered defenders with Lanchester submachine guns and Bren gun carriers equipped with anti-tank rifles. Lt Colonel Ian Stewart noted the grim reality: "the anti-tank rifle made no impression against the Jap mediums, while their 37 mm guns went through our armour like paper." The Japanese tankers, closing their hatches in the oppressive subtropical heat—what they described as a "Turkish bath"—approached cautiously, aware of potential counterattacks. British defenders fired desperately at vision slits, their bullets ricocheting uselessly. A 2-pounder anti-tank gun destroyed a single tank, prompting Japanese armor to withdraw and wait for infantry support. Meanwhile, two hundred defenders on the opposite side prepared to destroy the bridge. Fortunately, Kampar's shallow water allowed most to wade across a mile downstream. Stewart's 12th Brigade had purchased time. The British established a strong perimeter around Kampar Hill, resembling a "goose egg" on the map. Their artillery, better supplied than the Japanese equivalent, was concealed in the jungle with two hundred rounds stacked beside each gun. The 15th/6th Brigades occupied the low ground where the road and railway ran through town. Unlike earlier battles where Japanese forces kept defenders pinned with close contact, Kampar's expansive fields of fire and terrain offered space to maneuver—a rare advantage the British would finally exploit. Major General Saburo Kawamura led the attack on Kampar with his 9th Brigade. On December 31st, he probed the 28th Gurkha Brigade entrenched on the hill. Japanese howitzer fire drew return artillery that effectively repelled their advances. At midnight on New Year's Eve, Lt. Colonel Augustus Murdoch ordered a 12-gun salute fired at the Japanese—perhaps a cheeky gesture. Seven hours later, Kawamura launched his main assault on the western side targeting the trunk road. The brunt fell on a newly formed British battalion, the Leicesters and East Surreys, under Lt. Colonel Esmond Morrison. The 48-year-old, though some dismissed him as a "polo-playing playboy," proved a serious soldier despite his peacetime reputation, frequently sharing front-line dangers with his men. Japanese infantry emerged from the mist carrying mortars. Mortar fire became intense—one casualty was a company commander whose jaw was shattered by a splinter. However, observation officers from the 88th Field Regiment pinpointed Japanese advances, unleashing devastating artillery fire. Colonel Masanobu Tsuji observed "a continuous stream of casualties coming back down the hill to safety, either carried on stretchers or supported on the shoulders of comrades who were themselves wounded." Japanese artillery pieces were covertly moved through secondary jungle to hide their positions. During the fighting, one of Morrison's lieutenants encountered Japanese soldiers in a trench, fired his revolver, and retreated. A gunnery driver named Walker, noticing a nearby Bren position overrun, exited his vehicle armed with a Thompson submachine gun and launched a surprise attack, forcing the Japanese to retreat—earning him a medal. Troop Sergeant Major Hugill, commanding an outlying observation post connected by field telephone, received a distinguished conduct medal for calmly calling in protective artillery fire while cut off. When the attack subsided, he encountered isolated Japanese soldiers who had captured a Vickers-Berthier machine gun. Hugill gathered five infantrymen and led a bayonet charge to reclaim it. Emergency commissioned officer Lt. Edgar Newland commanded a platoon of 30 men in one of the most forward positions. His platoon was surrounded for much of the battle yet successfully repelled numerous assaults over two consecutive days. General Percival specifically praised Newland and his men. Newland received a Military Cross; his platoon sergeant, Euan McDonald, received a distinguished conduct medal. After two days, Japanese forces captured part of Thompson's Ridge. Morrison ordered two platoons of Sikhs and Gujars to bayonet charge under mortar fire. Tragically, 34 soldiers died, including their 21-year-old commander, Charles Lamb, killed in the initial charge. Captain John Graham lost both legs to a grenade but continued encouraging his men, throwing grenades at Japanese trenches before bleeding to death—but they had retaken the position. Courage, artillery, and terrain proved insufficient. Yamashita decided to outflank Percival with seaborne landings on the Malayan west coast. He transported 40 small craft by rail to Alor Star and ordered landings near Telok Anson, 30 miles southeast of Kampar. If successful, he would cut off Percival's 11th Indian Division defending Kampar. Yamashita devised a three-pronged attack: the Imperial Guards Division would paddle down the Perak River into town; another force would approach from the west on landing craft entering from the opposite direction; a third would move up the Bernam River and march north toward Telok Anson. Lt. General Takuro Matsui commanded the landings. While Kampar held, 1,500 of Matsui's men crowded onto landing craft. One steamer towing ten craft went too far south, attempting the Selangor River defended by a Jat battalion with artillery. The Japanese were repelled, losing one to three craft before moving north. In Perak, four landing rafts ran aground on a sandbar and required rescue. A British patrol boat spotted them but left to report—no action followed. Percival later remarked: "unfortunately neither the navy nor the air force were able to take advantage of this unique opportunity." Despite setbacks, Japanese forces landed and advanced on Telok Anson. On January 2nd, they encountered the 3rd Indian Cavalry and 1st Independent Company under Stewart, equipped with armored cars and Thompson and Bren guns. They inflicted significant casualties but with only 250 men couldn't hold. Stewart ordered delaying actions instead. Telok Anson fell, leaving Kampar defenders at risk of encirclement. Although Kawamura's forces showed no signs of breaking after four days of fighting, Paris feared his main supply route had been cut. He requested permission from Percival to withdraw to the Slim River defensive line. Paris prioritized preserving troops over territory: "With no reserves in hand, we were still in a position of being unable to accept major losses." The 12th Brigade held while Paris organized the division's withdrawal. An unusual discovery emerged during delaying actions: Brigadier Stewart found the body of a dead European cyclist in British uniform. Earlier, a Punjabi sentry had shot a man on a bridge attempting to grab his Thompson. Both were likely German deserters from Vichy Indo-China's Foreign Legion, in contact with the Nazi embassy. The British Legation in Bangkok had warned of such infiltrators offering sabotage and espionage assistance. Percival was particularly struck by the German who tried single-handedly to disarm a sentry and seize a bridge. The 12th Brigade discovered another European body—a German political refugee and former mining engineer who had disappeared weeks earlier. Exhausted after three weeks of near-constant combat, the 12th Brigade continued delaying actions. Japanese air forces wreaked havoc on vehicles; Stewart estimated half his casualties—around 90 killed and wounded from 4,000 troops—resulted from aerial attacks. Stewart expressed satisfaction: "It had been an eminently successful battle," though it was more a series of brief skirmishes than traditional battle. Kampar fell when Telok Anson was captured. Percival might have committed Australian brigades from Johore or garrison battalions from Singapore, but concentrating forces at Kampar risked prompting Yamashita to attack elsewhere. The Kampar defenders retreated 30 miles to the Slim River. Tsuji reluctantly acknowledged Yamashita's breakthrough was impressive, if risky. On the east coast, defenders faced more resistance at Kuantan. Percival clung to the airfield, determined to deny the Japanese RAF facilities and limit their ability to strike at reinforcement convoys approaching Singapore. The first convoy from Bombay, carrying the half-trained 45th Brigade under Brigadier Horatio Duncan, was 24 hours away. The 22nd Indian Brigade, led by Brigadier George Painter, defended Kuantan against the Takumi detachment of the 18th Division. One battalion, commanded by a veteran of Kota Bharu, fortified the airfield with barbed wire and trenches. When Takumi's forces approached, the Japanese encountered 4.5-inch howitzer fire inflicting significant casualties. The defenders fought fiercely, each equipped with six grenades instead of two, creating deadly chaos. Tsuji noted the airfield "was obstinately defended," particularly at night when grenades rolled into confined trenches with devastating effect. Word reached the defenders that General Barstow's entire 9th Indian Division was retreating through Kuala Lipis-Jerantut-Raub. The 22nd Brigade demolished installations and prepared to withdraw, though their rearguard risked encirclement. One night, investigating his southern flank with Captain Ian Grimwood, battalion commander Cumming spotted Japanese soldiers climbing barbed wire meters away. Armed with a .455 Webley revolver, Cumming and Grimwood faced seven Japanese soldiers charging with bayonets. They fired as they were knocked down, killing all attackers, but Cumming suffered two bayonet wounds to his stomach. Grimwood dragged him to battalion HQ for first aid. As the airfield was overrun, Cumming ordered withdrawal. A grenade or mortar round knocked him unconscious. He regained consciousness in a vehicle where Private Albel Singh reported a Japanese roadblock ahead. Spotting a fallen tree creating passage, Cumming ordered Singh to charge through. Machine gun fire rained down; Cumming was hit again with a shattered arm, possibly from an anti-personnel mine, while Singh endured a .256 armor-piercing bullet through both thighs yet maintained control, driving 30 miles per hour. The vehicle arrived at brigade HQ covered in blood from six occupants. Cumming would receive the Victoria Cross for his heroism. Painter held the airfield long enough for reinforcements to approach, though it cost much of one of the best Indian battalions. Painter, fixated on flanking fears, believed it "better to lose half a battalion than an entire brigade." The 22nd Indian Brigade lost a third of its strength but retreated by January 3rd. While this unfolded eastward, Yamashita's forces advanced south. Defenders prepared a new defensive line at Trolak, five miles north of Slim River. Reinforcements had arrived; the 45th Brigade was immediately dispatched to repel the enemy's advance on Kuala Selangor, which held another crucial airfield. Whether defenders could withstand Yamashita's onslaught remained to be seen.   While British forces retreated in disarray toward Singapore, another chapter was quietly beginning in the shadows of the collapsing colonial order. On December 25, 1941—Christmas morning, even as Governor Young raised the white flag over Hong Kong—Chinese volunteers in Singapore formalized their resistance. That day, the Singapore Overseas Chinese Anti-Japanese Volunteer Army, officially known as Dalforce, was established under the command of Lieutenant Colonel John Dalley. Dalforce emerged from urgent necessity. As the Japanese invasion accelerated and British defenses crumbled, recruitment of local Chinese volunteers escalated dramatically. What had begun as an informal volunteer effort in 1939 now crystallized into organized military structure. The initial cadre of 200 volunteers swelled to 4,000 members as the invasion reached Singapore's doorstep. These were not professional soldiers—Dalforce members came from the Chinese civilian population, motivated by the knowledge that Japanese occupation would target them specifically. Many lacked military training; some were armed only with sporting firearms due to critical shortages of military weapons. Supply ships intended for Dalforce, such as the SS Empress of Asia, were sunk before their cargo could reach Singapore. Yet the volunteers pressed forward, organizing themselves despite severe handicaps: makeshift uniforms, inadequate equipment, and internal divisions between Communist and Kuomintang factions, each trained separately by British officers. Dalforce would soon earn the nickname "Dalley's Desperadoes" from British forces—a name reflecting both affection for their fierce combat effectiveness and incredulity that such a hastily assembled, poorly equipped force could fight with such determination. Unlike the demoralized British and Indian troops retreating southward, these Chinese volunteers were not defending a colonial order they had experienced as oppressive. They were fighting for their homes, their families, and their survival against an enemy they had every reason to fear and oppose. As the Malayan Campaign entered its final phase and the focus shifted to Singapore itself, Dalforce would play a role that British military historians had largely overlooked but that Chinese participants would never forget. I would like to take this time to remind you all that this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Please go subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry after that, give my personal channel a look over at The Pacific War Channel at Youtube, it would mean a lot to me.   In December 1941, Japan invaded Malaya. British commanders placed their faith in "impregnable" Singapore, but disaster struck immediately. On December 10, Japanese bombers sank Force Z—battleships Prince of Wales and Repulse—in a stunning air attack.Using tanks and bicycles in a lightning "Bicycle Blitzkrieg," Japanese troops shattered Allied lines at Kota Bharu and Jitra, sending exhausted British, Indian, and Australian forces reeling southward in chaos.  

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Friday is the twenty-fifth anniversary of 9/11. 9/11 marked a turning point in American history when two planes were hijacked by extremists who flew into two buildings at the World Trade Center in New York and another at the Pentagon, and two thousand nine hundred and seventy-seven people were killed. It was the deadliest attack on the US since Pearl Harbor sixty years prior. Following 9/11, the US government implemented multiple pieces of significant legislation around curbing and countering terrorism and enemy combatants. Policies such as the USA Patriot Act and the Special Registration Program targeted and disproportionately affected Arabs, South Asians, and Muslims in America. Tonight on Apex Express, in recognition of the twenty-fifth anniversary, we are hearing from members of the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, ASATA. Several ASATA members will listen to Apex Express episodes about the impact of 9/11 and share their thoughts. You will hear pieces of shows starting all the way back to two thousand two and as recently as this spring.   LINKS Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, ASATA Bay Area Solidarity Summer (BASS) Black Panther Party History   SHOW TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Opening: Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express. [00:00:34] Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express. This is Miko Lee, and I'm introducing a show that is recognizing the time that we're in. And as many of you might know, this Friday is the twenty-fifth anniversary of 9/11. 9/11 marked a turning point in American history when two planes were hijacked by extremists who flew into two buildings at the World Trade Center in New York and another at the Pentagon, and two thousand nine hundred and seventy-seven people were killed. It was the deadliest attack on the US since Pearl Harbor sixty years prior. Following 9/11, the US government implemented multiple pieces of significant legislation around curbing and countering terrorism and enemy combatants. Policies such as the USA Patriot Act and the Special Registration Program targeted and disproportionately affected Arabs, South Asians, and Muslims in America. Tonight on Apex Express, in recognition of the twenty-fifth anniversary, we are hearing from members of the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, ASATA. Several ASATA members will listen to Apex Express episodes about the impact of 9/11 and share their thoughts. You will hear pieces of shows starting all the way back to two thousand two and as recently as this spring. So stay tuned to Apex Express and reflections on the twenty-fifth anniversary of 9/11.   [00:02:06] Arati: Hi everyone. Welcome. Can you please introduce yourselves?   [00:02:09] Hafsa: Hey everyone. My name is Hafsa. I'm here from ASATA.    [00:02:13] Palvinder: Hi all, Palvinder Kaur a Sikh community organizer here in Sacramento.   [00:02:19] Priya: Hi, I'm Priya. I'm also an organizer with ASATA and a teacher based in Oakland.   [00:02:23] Arati: We're gonna start listening to our clips now.    [00:02:25] Speaker 5: I can clearly remember my parents repeating, “Please don't let it be a Muslim. Please don't let it be a Muslim,” while watching the news. I didn't process at age five the type of impact this would have on my family, but as I got older, those words stuck with me as I watched police outside our mosques and soldiers touching down in Muslim countries around the globe.   [00:02:45] George W. Bush: Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward.    [00:02:50] Speaker 7: I got a call after the first tower had been hit.    [00:02:53] Speaker 8: I was right here. My roommate was like, “Hey, man. Wake up. You should watch this.”    [00:02:59] Speaker 9: My mom called me at 7:00 in the morning, and whenever my mom calls, I always think, “Oh, God,” you know? “What happened,” right? And my immediate reaction was, Bush has got his war now.    [00:03:10] George W. Bush: Make no mistake, the United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts.   [00:03:25] Speaker 9: Pretty much as soon as the towers fell and it was determined to be a terrorist act, people were talking about Pearl Harbor, you know, day of infamy and making all those parallels. And of course, there was that immediate fear of backlash against Arab Americans. But what's the point of revenge? It's not gonna bring the people who died back. It's not gonna prevent future attacks, in my opinion. If anything, it might create the conditions for more hatred.    [00:03:55] Speaker 10: It is heartbreaking when you hear somebody who's not even a Muslim or Arab got killed in Arizona who just happened to wear this traditional clothes.   [00:04:10] Speaker 9: Within the first week, I started seeing reports on the internet about hate crimes that occurred in San Francisco.   [00:04:15] Speaker 11: Arab American Discrimination more than two hundred incidents of hate crimes. Six of these people died.    [00:04:30] Speaker 7: My mom actually called me and she was like, “Shave your beard,” you know, like, “Don't do anything stupid.” My partner actually from Urban Groove, is a Sikh, and he was in Pittsburgh at the time, and he called me up and he said, “I'm scared for us right now.” I can't even go to the library. I can't even go to the gym. People are looking at me funny just getting in your car and going outside. You know, at that time we realized the education that really needed to come to a lot of Americans that Muslim or not, these are not people that blew up the World Trade Center. These are not people that hurt other Americans. You know, these are our friends, our coworkers, our family.   [00:05:15] Speaker 12: It took me a while to find my voice and publicly react and respond to the events at the close of 2001. Part of that has to do with the memory of how irrational Americans become during times of war. I didn't wanna be on any blacklists, be monitored, stand out.    [00:05:34] Speaker 8: One of the things that I thought was really ironic was the question the media posed to the, the public. You know, how could this happen to us? Well, kind of stop and look at the history of our foreign policy. It's pretty evident in why something like this would happen.    [00:05:50] Speaker 9: I didn't feel like I was being disrespectful, and I didn't think that I was somehow, like, less American for also criticizing the government. But then again, the appropriate response is that we all just fall in line behind the Bush administration, whatever they do. It doesn't matter. Civil liberties are trampled. This is the appropriate response. You know, this is the way we show our patriotism.   [00:06:12] Arati: So most of those clips were from Robyn Takayama's 2002 documentary in which she's using different community voices to explore her own discovery of what patriotism looks like. It starts with, like, a small cut from the 20th anniversary, and then the rest of that is from these series of immediate reactions and lived experiences from Robyn's documentary. So reflecting on when this documentary was released, 2002, and where we are now, what still feels resonant? Does anything feel stale or stuck in time, or are there things that you're still like, “Yeah, that's really where we're at now”?    [00:06:43] Hafsa: I think for me, growing up with the Muslim community in Southern California, I remember 2002 being a very scary time as the people in this audio clip are kind of sharing. And I think now I don't feel as stranded as an American Muslim in America as I did at that time. And to provide context, I was 11 years old at that time, and I could feel the fear from people older than me and, even my friends as we would go to recess, and we would think we'd get sniped down by someone who's, like, looking out for us because we're little Muslim kids. yeah, I think that's something that I can definitely feel, where I don't feel stranded. I don't feel like there are, there is a lack of other communities who've been harmed who can also make bridges with us.    [00:07:34] Arati: Yeah. Thanks, Hafsa.    [00:07:35] Palvinder: Yeah, similarly, I was, I was a teen as well, probably 11. I grew up Sikh. My dad wore the star, a turban. I remember seeing it on the news. And I didn't really register for me for about a little bit of time until, like, the first racist comment was made towards my dad or we heard about, the Arizona death. It wasn't until, you know, Brown communities, Sikh communities, uh, Muslim communities were targeted, anyone who looked Muslim, right, And so for me, I think at the time, it took a while to fully register. But, you know, once it did, it was like, oh, this isn't about it just being a Muslim. It's like people are just perceiving anybody. And, as I grew up, I realized, the need for, communities not to say like, “Oh, but we're not Muslim,” you know? And I think that was like a really strong push from a lot of the Sikh community organizers, reflecting back on it. But of course, you still have folks who are in the community who are just like trying to say, “But we're not Muslim.” And that's a, that was a problem. You know, I wanna call out that, that problematic nature, and I think the same thing happens today when we see it around communities who have different immigration statuses. and it's like, oh, we might be X, Y, Z race, but we're not. You know, we're, we're American, or we were born here, we're a citizen. And it's just like, but why are we othering ourselves? So I still see some of those similarities around othering. I struggle with it because I can understand from the perspective of, you know, some of the individuals trying their best, working hard, and wanting to not be targeted, but at the same time, like, it's not the right thing to do. I think we're seeing a lot more, collaboration now, I would say, a lot more shifting in the narrative. I know we've had a lot of conversations across, the Sikh community over the past two and a half decades around the problem with othering ourselves from other races and other, other identities. And so I, I think that's one aspect of it, but I still see that same sort of nature, right? Like, um, when an attack happens or when there's a shooting, it's constantly like, don't let it be a interracial identity or immigration identity, right? and, I feel like the media continues to fail us, like the narratives around people of color, immigrants, is just very dehumanizing. and somehow, white folks get humanized in all of the actions that they're taking. I do feel like there's a media component to it, and we have to call that out. The one thing that, you know, when one of the individuals had shared that they were like falling in line, I think about just the over-surveillance that's occurring and the way that social media recordings and just everything going live in public, you know, the need to be vocal, but there is a sort of line, right, that we all know that we shouldn't cross, and the fear of being seen as un-American.   [00:10:15] Arati: Thank you, Balvinder.   [00:10:16] Priya: I can briefly add on to what was shared. Something you said, Hafsa, really struck me that when you were 11 years old, even going to recess was something that created a culture of fear, and honestly, I still see that in some of my students. When there were threats of ICE in the Bay Area, my classroom was empty. I mean, like, 90% of students didn't come to school that whole week. That culture of fear still exists, among, like, Black and brown communities, even here in the Bay. but we have made a lot of connections with each other as people of color in our organizing histories. But the culture of fear is still salient.   [00:10:51] Arati: Thanks, Priya. Do you feel like there's stuff, you know, a lot of these were current day organizers still 25 years later reflecting on their experiences. Are there pieces of the strategy that we still feel like are salient and that we want to bring with us and continue implementing in 2026?   [00:11:06] Hafsa: I think the communities that reach out to each other, that's something that's still working out for us now. I remember the Japanese community reached out to our masjid because they had been interned. Like, they were in internment camps, and they knew what it felt like to be othered in America in a very vile way. And I remember learning, oh, wow, like, A) there's a big Japanese community in Southern California, and B) they are so resilient that they care enough to reach out to us even though they went through all this already, and now they wanna show us or they wanna be there for us in whatever capacity. So I think, like, as we grow and go through these traumatic events, whatever we learn, there's a resilience that we build when we reach out to other communities.    [00:11:55] Arati: Yeah, absolutely. All right, we're gonna move to our next set of clips. this is gonna be a little heavy, but there's some really incredible stuff in here thinking about the organizing that is birthed of necessity, and a lot of the Sikh coalition's actions in the immediate aftermath, and specifically Asata's actions here in the Bay Area.   [00:12:11] Speaker 8: At the end of the day, necessity is the mother of invention. On the day of 9/11 Sikhs in New York, where the Sikh Coalition is based, saw hate crimes occurring the afternoon of 9/11. Three members of our community were literally chased through the streets of Manhattan. The afternoon of 9/11, an elderly man was beaten to the point of having broken bones, and Sikh young children were shot with paintball guns. And so the night of, we issued a press release grieving against attack on the country and calling on a police to protect our community from hate crimes. Our first real action beyond the press release on the night of 9/11 was to create a website where community members could report hate crimes and other forms of discrimination that were occurring to them. And within that first month after 9/11, more than three hundred people logged in and, and reported acts of discrimination. Everything from, from people who had been shot at, one gentleman who was murdered, to beatings, school bullying, employment discrimination alike. And we really used the information there to get the word out to the media and the policymakers that we have a real problem that needs to be addressed immediately.   [00:13:24] So I think, you know, the heart of the activism in that first month was really creating a space for people to report what was happening and then using that information to call for change. We were able to persuade the, the city of New York to create a regulation on school bullying where none existed before, and where school administrators are required to track bullying incidents and keep statistics on them. They have to ma– use all means they possibly can to take non-punitive measures. And that regulation protects one point one million students in the public school system in New York City, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, national origin, religion, and the like. We were just able to get the New York City mayor to sign a bill that raises the bar for when employers can reject a request for religious accommodation in the workplace. Post 9/11, Sikhs have been barred from a number of jobs, including city jobs, because of their turbans. And if you wanna work for the public transit system, you have to brand your turban or if you're a Muslim, your hijab, with a Metropolitan Transportation Authority logo. And so we were able to get the mayor to sign a bill last week that basically bans most of those practices. And again, it protects literally millions of New Yorkers who work in the city from discrimination based on religion in the workplace. But at the end of the day, it's again, a regulation that pushes back on the government being able to do whatever it wants and creates a space for anyone to enjoy those protections.   [00:14:50] Speaker 13: So in the Bay Area, ASATA members distributed multilingual know your rights flyers and provided legal support in collaboration with other activist groups, such as the Arab American Anti-Discrimination Committee, the former ADC in San Francisco, the National Lawyers Guild, Council of American-Islamic Relations and the Progressive Bengali Network, and ASATA members provided support by taking down the contact information of the men standing outside the Department of Justice to register so as to notify families in case they were detained or disappeared, and also provided information about free legal resources.    [00:15:28] Speaker 14: There's a really moving testimony of a young Muslim girl from Seattle, Washington. Her and her mother were held in detention for, I think, nine months- Mm … without charges or anything, and her mother actually almost died while they were in detention. It was just such a traumatic experience, and I mean, we really need to let these stories be heard.    [00:15:46] Speaker 15: I wanted to point something out, that the figures from May 2003 from the INS or BCIS say that the number of people registered as of May 11th, 2003, were 82,581. Number of people detained, and these are their figures, so who knows what the real figures really are, 2,761. Number of people still detained at that time, 158, and the number of people charged with terrorism-related crimes, zero.    [00:16:19] Speaker 16: Reports indicate that some of those taken into custody were harshly treated. They were handcuffed, shackled, placed in cold cells without adequate clothing or blankets, blankets, forced to sleep standing or on concrete floors, hosed down with cold water, and denied adequate food and water.    [00:16:40] Speaker 17: And I would like to ask for volunteers because when we monitor, when we stand here and monitor people, there are less detentions, there are less questions, and people get done quickly. Some people are afraid to go alone, and they can take a companion with them. If we want safety and security, we cannot buy it by terrorizing other people. We need to change our thinking. We need to change our ways. As superpowers, we need to start empowering people, not taking them away, not putting them in prisons, not detaining. This country has become so secretive. Secret evidence, secret detentions, secret deportations. Everything is secret except our privacy. So we need to really take our country back.   [00:17:32] Arati: Okay. So that was a little longer and definitely somewhat heavy. but I think it's really interesting to hear how people were talking about this, especially post 9/11, and how they were talking about the country in general, and then their work in specific. What things stood out to you from how our communities were able to spring into action immediately post 9/11?   [00:17:49] Palvinder: I was a teen, so to me, as I learned all of the immediate action that was taken, it was really incredible and inspiring, so many different areas of it, right? Raising awareness around the detentions, trying to create that website. Working on school policies. Like, there was so much that was happening, and so much that continues to happen. Great to see community springing into action. I also struggled for so long in my early organizing days, being frustrated that these systems were not created for us, these policies were not created for us. And then when you learn so many of the policies were literally created against us- post 9/11, the over-policing, the over-targeting, it was just so challenging, right? Like, we have already so much, so many more challenges that we're dealing with, and then here we have additional barriers to just kind of living a, a decent life here. But you know, still continue to be inspired by, the way that folks sort of look to heal the community and support. And so I think that, like, one of the things I think about is, is the community within the communities that we were able to create that culture of healing, as much as possible, and then also thinking about the greater change and sort of protections for our community. I struggle with the hate crime stuff, you know, and the data there because, you know, there's so much around how data is used. Is it used in a beneficial way? Is it even, you know, supporting anything that's gonna create some real change? and then of course there's a surveillance question. But again, like I truly feel that folks thought this was coming from a good place. Um, and so I just continue to be mindful around the tactics that we're using, being mindful of like going fast but also being thoughtful and considerate around how these might impact us in the long run. And I, I hope that we continue to look at that. not just finding sort of immediate solutions that might work for us now, but seeing the long-term impact of them too.    [00:19:34] Arati: Yeah, totally. Would love to hear folks' thoughts on this as well, and also I'm curious, I've, I've now heard a few of you say a couple times just like what it meant to be a child at the time, and yeah, maybe not actually being tapped in in that moment of what organizing and activism was taking place when you were that young. But I'm curious also about kind of hearing about it more, and I'm sure as you grew up but also now as an adult, kind of what, how you feel like that maybe has shaped you.    [00:20:00] Hafsa: It's great to hear that there was a collection of bullying and racism happening in schools and that being reported because 100% I'm sure each of those data points represents so many other unreported happenings. For reference, I went to high school in Huntington Beach, California. I did not know the demographics of that area until I left high school, and it helped me understand my experiences there, especially with the teachers who were allowed to be racist. One of the only books in my history teacher's class was a book about how the Quran is false. He was a white man, Christian white man, and this was a history class. and he was a beloved teacher, beloved. And this is just one of many things that happened and that went unreported because we thought, oh, we are lesser than them. We do have to stick together. This is how they talk to us in front of us and behind our backs. So I remember hanging out exclusively with other Muslim students who also wore hijab because that's who we were pushed into a corner and you look around and that's who's there. And I remember going to the masjid and every time there was someone who didn't quite look Arab or South Asian or generally Muslim, if it's like a white person entering the masjid, I'm thinking, “Is that a government operative?” And it was sometimes. Every masjid I knew had at least one person who was hella shady, and they were spying on us, and I wonder where that data lives right now.    [00:21:30] Arati: Yeah. Absolutely. And that's hard not to think about in the surveillance state we're living in now.   [00:21:36] Priya: I was only three when 9/11 happened, but as an organizer now, I am really looking back on how our communities showed up for each other and provided like mutual aid relationship building, and that's the kind of organizing that I wanna build on now in the Bay Area. So the way that like we showed up and we did know your rights in different languages and we, you know, took people's names down, like we're still doing that, and that's the kind of work that I like want us to keep doing and that I feel really proud to be a part of. We have ICE watch at our school where neighbors walk around our school every single morning for an hour, and they have their whistle ready. So if they see ICE, they know how many times to blow the whistle, and we will, you know, spring into action immediately. But yeah, that kind of like relationship building and my neighbor's got my back, and I've got yours, and we're like in this together, and, and we live together, but we also like know each other's names, and we know what it means to keep each other safe because that's not what the government is doing for us. That's what stands out to me from post 9/11 organizing, and that's what I wanna build on.    [00:22:46] Palvinder: Yeah, echoing that. Community and connection and relationship building and healing. I remember specifically there was, in Fresno, Piara Singh, an elderly Sikh man, got attacked. And, our first thing was like, “Okay, what do we do? Like, how do we heal as a community as well?” Of course, the news media attention is there forefront for, like, a day or two, maybe a week max. but you know, when the individual recovers, or they are gonna be recovering, there's really not much attention after that. And for us, it was really like, how do we allow our elders to feel safe, right? How do we allow our community to feel safe, that same walk that this individual is taking, you know? And so I think there was components around that about healing, but also wanting to move fast. I think one of my greatest lessons would just be, centering healing and community and relationship building throughout all of it. no matter how fast we wanna go or how quickly we need to go, I just think about the need to center that. And I think more and more trying to find ways when we aren't springing into action about how we can implement some of that and make sure that that's also centered to the work that we're doing.   [00:23:51] Arati: Yeah. I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts on pieces of the specific organizing that was happening that feel maybe relevant. I'm thinking about the non-punitive bullying measures, the non-discrimination activities that had broad benefits, monitoring for safety and security, the description of the detention conditions. I know we've touched on some of these already, but I wonder if there's anything else that's coming up when people are thinking about strategizing and coalition building in 2026.   [00:24:16] Hafsa: All the information I got as a child was through gossips and rumors from elders who were talking, and they were saying, “Hey, we have CIA operatives in the masjid. Hey, we might be attacked. You gotta watch out.” So I think just that sort of conversation or that kind of community interaction is so important because the media wasn't telling me how to save my butt. It was telling me that I'm a scary person, and I'm gonna grow up to do something terrible one day. And I couldn't find an ounce of that within me, so.   [00:24:51] Arati: All right. Thanks everybody. Let's move to our next clip. speaking of media, perfect transition. this is a reflection around the 10-year anniversary of 9/11, and a lot of the audio in these clips are actually thinking about when the media started talking to us rather than just about us.   [00:25:07] Speaker 19: It's the first time we actually have media approaching us around the time of the anniversary asking us what have been the effects on our communities. Uh, whereas before it would, you know, sort of be focused very much around the families that were directly affected by 9/11 and occasionally we'd get a call to check in about, oh, you know, are you– is your community facing any backlash? We've received a decent number of media requests talking about what the last ten years have been like. What have the various ways that our communities have been affected. And at the same time, uh, you know, I think a lot of the exposés in particular that have been criticizing what law enforcement and government agencies have done in the last ten years, a lot of those have seemed to come out in the last, uh, couple of weeks. Mother Jones did a extensive special on, uh, the FBI and their use of undercover agents and informants across the country. The AP has been doing a series, uh, the Associated Press has been doing a series on the NYPD, their collaboration with the CIA and, and their, uh, mapping of Muslim communities in New York. NPR has been doing stories and, and that it seems that they– there is an interest in the media to sort of be more critical, uh, slightly more critical of law enforcement agencies and, uh, starting to demand some form of transparency and accountability that so far they were just given a free leeway to do whatever they wanted, and everything was justified in the name of protecting, uh, our cities. Uh, but now there's starting to be some questions are starting to be raised.   [00:26:48] Arati: Yeah, I feel like this kind of feels really specific in terms of what we were just talking about, and it draws us back into that idea. and I'm curious about if we have reflections on how movement work has changed, especially now that we do have to kind of consider how to engage with the current media apparatus and how does responding to what the media is saying about us, trying to work with the media to share out different kinds of messaging, is that something that folks are thinking about?   [00:27:11] Priya: It just reminds me of how like three weeks ago it came out that the federal government was spying on organizing activities in Minnesota among unions, among organizers. Like this is … no surprise this is still happening, but it can be helpful to look back and, and think about how our communities have experienced this before, and how we came together and how we can prevent it. Or just be more aware of the possibility that it will continue to happen.   [00:27:40] Palvinder: I think the common thing that I kinda see in, my perspective of it is, like, in the moment when something happens, it's constantly the same thing, right? Oh my gosh, let's go talk to the community, and, like, media wants to paint their narrative of it, right? Questions are very specific. and then there's, like, a timeframe where the reflection happens, right? 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years later. And it's like, oh, let's see the impact on the community. Let's see how they're affected. But in the moment, when the opportunity is so prime, like, we don't really have that. I mean, I think more and more I've seen folks, even in, like, media trainings with the community. And so I've really appreciated when folks don't actually answer those questions, and they just shift their response to what they really wanna get across because that's really what our community wants to share. You know, we don't wanna just always answer the question and kind of fill the narrative that the media wants in the moment. but really, like, sharing it from our perspective. And so just greater need to write our own histories, document what's happening. I think we're so caught up in the moment sometimes that we don't even do that. And of course, there's a balance, right, of, action is being taken, what sort of impact those, taking photos or videos of those actions have as well. I just really think that we need to continue to make sure that the stories and the narratives that we want to share even in the moment are shared. and so flipping that script is really great for folks who can do that. I'm not an expert on that. I hope to be one day. But, yeah, just wanna also acknowledge that the reflection piece is, when I feel like the media starts talking to us.   [00:29:14] Hafsa: Yeah, I think, something that I've shifted within myself because, just, talking to media and, you know, being able to represent myself and my community, that's not something that's within my skillset. Like, that's not something I definitely work on. But what I do love to work on is increasing representation of people who look like us in other areas. And I think back as 11-year-old American Muslim immigrant growing up in America, what did me and my friends need? And something that we didn't have access to was really, like, the outdoors and nature, and that is just the number one healing thing, and that's something that a lot of immigrant communities cannot find when we come to America 'cause we are put in areas that don't have nature, where it's redlined districts or places that we can afford. They don't have access to nature. So something I like to do is try to organize for those communities to get us out in nature and feel safe because when we can feel safe in the world alone, we can feel ourselves in a way that we can't when we hear media tell us that we are scary or we are worthless or whatever else. It's a great place to unwrap those lies and really feel ourselves.    [00:30:22] Arati: That's a beautiful reflection. I really appreciate you thinking about what you needed as a child, what our communities need, and, what, what it feels like to work with the media, but also to be like, ” That might not be our friend.” So how do we protect ourselves from the media? Thank you for sharing that.   [00:30:37] Palvinder: I'll also just quickly add on the media piece, and this is like a definitely based off my, my experiences. There are certain folks who have access to media, you know, in the community. There are certain folks and organizations who the media will always go to. And, you know, I understand they've built those relationships, they've invested those resources, and I would just really encourage, you know, and continue to encourage those folks to really think about the folks who are on the ground doing the work as well, and giving opportunity to those voices as well when they want them. cause of course, not all organizers and activists want those, opportunities. But, I just think that it's important to share the diversity of voices amongst the community, and while many of those who have access and privilege with media, they are very niche. and yes, they're eloquent in their speaking, they're great at sort of getting what message they want across, but we're also very diverse communities. You know, there are some folks who are gonna pick up the pen and then others who are gonna go to the streets, you know, and organize. There's others contacting decision-makers. So it just all depends. But, yeah, I would just really encourage our communities to really think about, sharing the mic really.   [00:31:46] Arati: Okay. Thanks so much for sharing that. These are really, really incredible reflections. Um, we're gonna move to our next set of clips. A lot of this is gonna be audio from a massive Stop Urban Shield demonstration in 2014, which is nested inside of an interview with Zahra Billoo from CAIR or the Council on American Islamic Relations. So we get to hear from Zahra, we get to hear from the Stop Urban Shield work, which was happening right here in the Bay Area, and, um, I'm excited to hear y'all's thoughts.   [00:32:14] Speaker 20: I think a, a really huge local victory for Bay Area residents to celebrate is all of the organizing that happened to push back Urban Shield. I don't know if folks are familiar with Urban Shield, but it's essentially like a massive law enforcement training exercise where they train SWAT teams and sell weapons and, you know, military-grade weaponry for domestic police agencies. And so when you wonder why the local police department in Ferguson has a tank or things of that sort, or why people are dying because police are using military-grade weapons, a lot of that's happening in this culture of this Urban Shield convention, and so it's been coming to Alameda County for a couple of years now.   [00:32:54] Speaker 21: On the second day of Urban Shield, community members filled the intersection of 10th and Broadway, just outside of the Marriott where the vendor show was taking place.   [00:33:11] Speaker 23: Can you read the sign that you're holding?    [00:33:15] Speaker 22: Don't shoot. From Ferguson, Gaza to Oakland, our homes are not war zones.    [00:33:21] Speaker 23: Simi Makhijani. I'm here with the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action. We're out here to stand in solidarity with all those that are targeted by state-sponsored violence, whether at the hands of Oakland, Ferguson, New York Police Department, or the drone attacks on Pakistan, or the struggles against Zionism in Palestine or Hindu supremacy in India. After September 11th here, in terms of surveillance and unwarranted detentions of Muslims and those mistaken as Muslims in the Sikh population, and in other countries from Kashmir to Gujarat to Gaza, you know, the attacks on Muslims. We haven't always been recognized or as visible as we should be in standing together, walking together in these struggles here, and it's the primary reason that we're trying to be here, because it's really important that non-Black communities of color not be silent on this issue.   [00:34:13] Speaker 21: Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders came out in force, and nearly everyone I spoke with made links between the militarization of police in our communities in the US and the militarism perpetuated by the US throughout Asia.    [00:34:26] Speaker 24: The increasing brutality of the local police and the paranoia about terrorist attacks stems directly from the attack on the Twin Towers. Of course, giving local police military-grade equipment is older than 9/11, but we've seen an upswing in funding from the Department of Homeland Security. So in that way, Urban Shield is one facet of the war on terror.    [00:34:45] Speaker 20: There was a really great coalition that formed on the ground in the Bay Area, primarily out of Oakland and San Francisco, that said, “Look, you can't push violent policing in our community, that we're not going to let you use Oakland as a base for that kind of development and activity.” And so they organized for a couple of months leading up to it, and then around the convention last weekend, there were very large rallies and huge visibility events. They also got a couple of people to move their events from the Oakland Marriott, which is where the convention was happening. And as a result, the, the news or the rumor out right now is that Urban Shield will not be returning to the Bay Area. And even if it does, I always find victories even in the organizing, right? Getting hundreds if not thousands of people out to push back against violent policing, against civil liberties erosion is a very big deal. And so if folks wanna learn more about that campaign, they can simply Google Stop Urban Shield.   [00:35:41] Arati: I just think there's so many incredible moments in that and, that was a big win in 2014. In thinking, in particular about how the speakers described Urban Shield as an extension of the surveillance state and as an extension of the war on terror, and then about the campaign itself around that event, I'm wondering what lessons the current day movement organizers can take from this.   [00:36:01] Palvinder: I think the biggest thing is probably that it's not in a vacuum, right? there's a lot of other movements that are very similar. There's a lot of other things that are a part of these larger systems, right? specifically, it was mentioned as the war on terror, right? So this is just one part of that, one facet of it, and I think it was really great that there was specific call-out for Ferguson, Gaza, other international movements as well across the globe, and I think that that's super critical, in the organizing work that we do. As much as we feel like our local communities might be targeted, this is all part of a greater system. It's not happening in a vacuum, and we have so much to learn from the organizing that's happening in those areas as well.   [00:36:39] Hafsa: Yeah, thanks for mentioning that. I think something that helped me get through the time post 9/11 was just realizing that this has happened in America before, like many different times, specifically to the African American community. And I remember reading about Malcolm X, reading about Martin Luther King and thinking, “Oh, these are people who can be my role models. I don't look like them, but I'm pretty sure I feel things that they felt.” And even, like, reading bell hooks or Du Bois, like they didn't look like me, but we shared a similar struggle, and I hope that in the future someone can look at our community, and maybe they don't look like us, but they will say, “Hey, these people fought for the same thing I did,” and it was basically against America's attack on human rights, which has been happening since America was founded.   [00:37:27] Arati: I know for me, one of the reasons it feels great to listen to this clip is because right now it feels like we're just in a cacophony of oppression, right? Like, every single day there are these new policies, new initiatives, absurd tweets, just so much messaging coming, and so many policies also happening that we're constantly contesting with. We're constantly trying to fight against. And, it can feel really hard. It can feel really hopeless. And I guess I'm curious about how we can think about these examples of, like, local work, like Urban Shield or any other work that you've engaged in recently, and think about how does, that local, work on the ground help fit into this larger thread or this national moment around liberation   [00:38:07] Hafsa: I also very much appreciate that these communities were able to show up to stop things like Urban Shield, because specifically, like in my experience growing up in the Muslim community, I was just so much in my corner just trying to survive that I wouldn't even be able to think about this larger picture of what's happening on the local government le- level that's going to affect me and my kids or whomever else. So I really appreciate that recognition of solidarity and people showing up and saying, “Hey, I know someone who hurts more than me and I'm gonna go out to the streets and stand up for them and protest for them.” ‘Cause I think that's something that's also helped me even when my community has been demonized. It's always think about someone else who's been demonized more than you and make that my fight song rather than my own experiences, because that can be a little harder.   [00:38:55] Palvinder: I think the other thing for me is realizing that when folks can't show up, there's other avenues too, right? So not everyone has to be in the streets protesting or showing up to these causes. I think about the need to make sure that our organizing is accessible for all people, and that accessibility looks different. I feel like especially when I was in my, like, 20s, I felt like showing up at protests and, at organizing events was the main way. And if you weren't there, you weren't down for the cause. And I think for me, I learned very quickly that there were reasons why they actually couldn't go and show up there, you know, for their own safety. Just the need to be able to have those different actions so organizing can be accessible.   [00:39:33] Hafsa: And I think having CAIR as an organization has been really great. That's been a constant in my life. It was pretty new when I was younger, and I'm so glad that it's still up and running and they're still, like, you know, fighting the good fight. and Balvinder like what you're talking about, like how not everyone can show up to a protest. I remember my first protest, and I told myself at the time, it's my last protest. It was with the Sierra Club in Huntington Beach, and it was a silent protest on the Iraq War. And I was one of two hijabis. The other one was my friend. Everyone else was white, and we were supposed to be silent, walking down Huntington Beach. And who was targeted? It was me by other white people, racists. And I'm like, “I'm silent protests. Don't talk. I don't know what to do.” And I was, like, 17, 18, and I was like, “I'm never doing this again.” So I'm so glad that organizations like CAIR are there and I can actually organize in the Bay Area with people who look like me rather than being told how to organize by people who don't understand my struggle, don't understand my experience, and won't stand up for me when they see something go wrong.   [00:40:36] Arati: Oh my, oh my-    [00:40:37] Palvinder: Yeah. Oh, oh my gosh. I would not have shown up to any protest if that was my only experience with a protest. I would've been like, “No, these people are all crazy,” and like, “Where's my community at?”    [00:40:47] Hafsa: Oh my- No, I switched to anarchism after that. I was like, “No, the Democrats don't have it figured out. I cannot… Y'all don't understand me. You want to maybe, but that's it.”   [00:40:59] Arati: Yeah. I feel like at this point I'm like, if there's a protest, we need to have a safety training. We need to know what are the people's risk tolerances. I'm so sorry that happened to you. That is wild. But it's also… I mean, sadly, it's not unique. I think a lot of people have a story of being, like, at a protest and then not being protected. So yeah, how are we, how are we really thinking about how we're protecting ourselves and our community, for sure.    [00:41:21] Hafsa: Yeah, and it was a good experience because the Sierra Club fights for land, and knowing that they don't necessarily fight for me gives me information that, hey, I have to do that fight because I'm in environment. I'm a field biologist, so that's something I keep in mind, I think. I'm one of the few people who can actually understand the struggles of the animals and the humans, and that's very rare.   [00:41:41] Arati: Do we have any other thoughts on the Bay Area specifically and how we might be positioned in the Bay to support this fight for liberation?   [00:41:48] Hafsa: I moved to the Bay Area because I saw that there was a solidarity there that wasn't quite there in Southern California where I lived, in Orange County, and I wanted to learn more from that because I didn't wanna just hang out with people who look like me. I wanted to hang out with people who had all these different kinds of experiences with the American government, with being discriminated against, because The answer is there. It's between all of us. It's not within our little silos of community. It's when we all connect together, and that's also what brought me to joining ASATA as well.   [00:42:17] Priya: I echo that. I also grew up in SoCal in a really white, wealthy suburb called Manhattan Beach, which sounds not too dissimilar from Huntington Beach. And yeah, the message of solidarity that the Bay Area really espouses is what brings me here. And, the way that we show up for each other in the Bay feels uniquely inspiring. Whether it's Urban Shield, whether it's like, oh, there's a Muslim ban, we're at SFO within like hours. Oh, we're gonna, accompany people to their ICE court hearings. Like, I really feel like we just show up in unique ways. And yesterday I did canvassing for ICE Out of Dublin, and it's, that similar message of like we're out here, we're talking to neighbors. And like Balvinder said, there are so many ways that you can show up for each other, but we have a history of doing it.    [00:43:03] Arati: I love that. This takes me right to the next thing I wanted to talk about, which is, a lot of people organizing now don't have a living memory of 9/11, right? And so we're gonna listen to some clips, from Deepa, who's a community organizer, and Fahd Ahmed, who was the legal and policy director of Desis Rising Up and Moving. And, they both have some kind of reflections around social movements, young organizers, and, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna think a little bit about that as we continue to, like, look forward.   [00:43:29] Speaker 19: Social movements have always been the main vehicle for change whether in the United States or the world abroad. And and the power of social movements is that the democratic potential that you build, the people's political awareness that you build, the power that you build doesn't dissipate away just based on an election. Doesn't dissipate based on the changing of a person in power and that if we really had truly strong social movements that built coalitions, built alliances as were discussed earlier, that those movements retain power through various ups and downs, through various issues. And if those movements are infused with a deeper political understanding, historical awareness, that they can be very powerful in holding government accountable. While all these sorts of acts may happen, blowbacks may happen, backlash may happen, at the end of the day, we– the best– the government is the only place that we can hold accountable through our taxes, through our votes, through our social mobilization.   [00:44:33] Speaker 25: Some of the young folks that are entering or working at nonprofits now, supporting South Asian nonprofits don't have a living memory of 9/11 and the global war on terror, and they have been politicized in different ways, right, over the last eight years, for example, the pandemic, global wars, etc. And so there are a couple of ways in which I've been thinking about how we can support South Asian young people. So for example, how can we share historical analysis and political analysis so that young people understand that they are part of a trajectory of South Asian activism that actually started well before 9/11, before the nineteen sixties, right? And that continues to today. So they don't feel fragmented. So that's something that I've been sitting with a lot. Another is around pathways into public service and community service and into the nonprofit sector. So how could we support young people in terms of building their skills in having pathways open to them into our nonprofit organizations? And then finally, how do we support them, um, so that they can do this work for the long run? You know, we all struggle with burnout. We all struggle with sustainability. What are some lessons learned that we can pass on? What are some best practices? That's something that's been sitting with me quite a bit, and I hope that the coalition will really think about supporting young people's leadership and finding different avenues and pathways to do that.   [00:46:00] Arati: What do we think about how we can share historical analyses that will help people new to organizing and understanding their role? Or how can we support young people in building skills that kind of help get them into movement work?   [00:46:11] Hafsa: I think reading literature is very, very, very important. When I think about what's helped me understand myself better, it was things like the Black Panthers, and that's another reason why I moved to the Bay Area. Like, they're organizing. They weren't just there armed guards, like, policing their, policing other people from their community. It was also, like, you know, free lunch programs for the kids. It was a holistic understanding of community and what it meant, what it really meant. Like, hey, we got us and no one else got us.    [00:46:43] Palvinder: Some of my favorite things has been around BASE, so Bay Area Solidarity Summer gives context to like, young organizers, about the long-standing history of South Asian organizing, and it is so diverse. I remember the first time I saw it, I was, like, amazed. I was just like, “Wow,” “This is really great.” It was so inclusive of different communities, in the larger sort of South Asian stream of organizing, and so it was just really great. I think Anirudha and Mrinalini cover that South Asian timeline, each year at BASE, and it just allows you to see the context that this was pre-9/11. This is, going back to the '60s, '70s there's been so many other movements that have happened, and just all of the different actions that have been taken. And so I think that's really, really helpful to see it across communities, religious, minority, state, countries, all of that, in the larger, broader South Asian group and then just the need for training and educating and informing young people. I think it's never too early to start. And then I think just investing in our communities. I have to say, I know for the Punjabi Sikh community, I worked for Jakara Movement, was our first community organizer. We had a part-time staff member, turned full-time staff member prior to me working. And I remember when I would tell people that I'm, like, an organizer, they would be like, “No, no, no, but like, like, what's your job? Like, what do you actually do?” So it was interesting to see when I would do the work, they would be so appreciative, they'd love it, and they wanted it to happen. But the investment in understanding that this can also be a job and needs to be a job, in doing development work in the community around the organization, I just saw that, we want things to happen, but we don't wanna put our money there always. And I think that if we want for greater social movements and greater advancements in our communities to happen, we need to be like other communities. We need to have organizations that are established, investing in paid positions. And so many of us do this in our free time, right? And I think that so much of it happens in that. But we can see where folks in social movements have gone further, and that's because there's been intentional and critical investments that have sustained them. So great call-out to, I think all of our communities to making sure that we're investing in this because we can only do so much of it in our free time.   [00:48:50] Priya: I really appreciated the thread of education, and I was a BASE alum, and Aditi gave me a great overview of South Asian organizing. And, like you said, Balvinder, it's such an in-depth history. and it really has helped inform my current politics and what South Asian organizing can look like today. and I think the other way that I try to educate myself is just, like, be curious, ask questions. Ask my grandparents what their experience during partition was like. Ask my parents what their experience post 9/11 was like, and just, learn from each other and learn those histories also, public education curriculum, especially in Oakland, is getting better and better. Like, all ninth graders have to take ethnic studies. We talk about the Black Panther Party starting in, like, fifth grade in Oakland schools, so I feel like there's a lot of progress being made.   [00:49:39] Speaker 27: I think that we need to begin to dream again. I think especially among progressives, there is a great despair and a cynicism and even a pessimism as we're entering a new decade and so much of the apparatus of oppression that we've inherited after 9-11 have not, has not been rolled back. The wars persist. And I think it begins with dreaming again enough to inspire the, inspire movement building. And I think that we need a new frame for movement building. I think rights separate us as if, you know, immigrant rights is separate from LGBT rights is separate from Muslim and South Asian rights. I think that we need to ground our movement building in shared moral imperatives. There is a groundswell out there of not only young Sikh and Muslim and South Asian Americans, but really a whole generation of Americans who are really hunger, hungry to emerge from the shadow of 9-11 and think of this, the end of the 9-11 decade as an end to a chapter of history and the beginning of a new chapter.   [00:50:37] Esha: So again, this is kind of us tying back to what we've been talking about, which is just how, how do we connect that work and build on top of it, and also keep people engaged and continue to build solidarity. so would love… I know we've kinda touched on this as a through line of all of our conversation, but would just love to hear your hopes for the future and, and what you see as a positive, and where we can go from here.   [00:51:01] Palvinder: Esha, I'm a bit critical about this, I'm gonna start with the critical, but I'm hoping to end on a positive here. I think when I hear a lot of this dreaming and need to close this chapter, I struggle because I think there is a lot of healing that still needs to take place and a lot of healing that never took place because we come from communities that sweep things under the rug. When I think about a lot of my experiences, a lot of my parents' generation's experiences, they just never talked about it. They had to provide for their family. They had to move on. They had to figure out how do they continue to have space for Punjabi Sikh folks in the Central Valley or in, in Northern California. I know when I went to college and was exposed to folks who came from different socioeconomic backgrounds, things just really changed, and there was a privilege with being able to dream and think about your future without having to think about, “Is my dad gonna be safe?” “Are we gonna have enough food?” Right? Or any of those questions. So Yes, all in for dreaming. I think there's a need to make sure that we're healing and we're uplifting everyone that's a part of the community as well. and so dreaming means that we're thinking about the organizing. We're thinking about what's coming into our futures and how are we gonna get there, and it means taking everyone with us. I am very hopeful, and I've seen in the last two decades of my own organizing and my own community building, the ways that folks are showing up for others who don't have those same backgrounds. I see the conversations around those who are detained in this current climate right now conversations that my own parents may not have had, right? Just advancements in their own thinking around, a lot of the politics in the past eight to 12 years even, and I see that across the community as well. Not everyone, of course. I don't know when we'll get there, but I definitely see greater humanity and just connecting back to folks and seeing those inhumane conditions that people are living through. Still have a lot of work to do around, when we talk about homelessness and substance use and so much other stuff. But I think we're making ample progress, and it's because we're really trying to bring everyone, the generations ahead of us that, never wanted to have these conversations and we never thought we could ever change their perspective. Some of them are slowly moving over. But I am grateful for just organizations and people and spaces and community, who can come together. And I know Aisa was like, “Oh, this has been great.” I feel the exact same way, right? Like, you know, three of us are joining on a call, and I feel like we're able to come and connect in this space because of that sort of shared linkage around organizing and care and healing. So just really grateful for spaces like this and people who continue to really think critically about the way that we do this work.   [00:53:43] Hafsa: Yeah, thanks for sharing that, Balvinder. I also grew up in, like, a very low-income household in government housing in Southern California, and I think a lot of American Muslim immigrants in the area were also in a similar situation. And, I think about the struggles, the everyday struggles that my parents still have to go through. There's no, like, healing. There's no understanding of 9/11 still. They're still working every single day. And yeah, I can dream of a better life for them, but I've kind of been coming to terms now that they're not gonna experience the freedom that I wish we could all experience in their lifetime. And yeah, like I said, it all comes down to the socioeconomic fight in this country, and really throughout the world, where we can say it's all these marginalized communities because of what we look like, but it all really comes down to keeping the classes separate and keeping a very high income class continuously growing, and the rest of us are just the soil that they use to extract nutrients from. And there has been a larger struggle of socioeconomic issues throughout history, and that's also something that's really helped me understand my own position in the world. Because even though 9/11 did position me as a perpetrator of violence that I've never done, I realize that there's… it, it, it really helps to link myself and my experiences to struggle that have already happened because it makes you not feel alone, and it really helps you feel that solidarity even with people who are not alive still, and that's really helpful. I, I think about ancestors a lot, and I think of we… A lot of us don't have access to our actual grandparents or great-grandparents because of partition or whatever else, so I've looked to people like Malcolm X and other people like that. And even I've read a lot of Tolstoy . Like, even it, it's not just something that, um, has to happen right now with the people that are alive right now. It's a long line of human rights movements and the thirst for freedom that we're all a part of, and that makes me feel a lot more contained as I'm going through the more difficult parts of being part of a marginalized community in America today.   [00:56:05] Arati: We would love to hear your thoughts as well on that last clip.   [00:56:08] Priya: I appreciate the call to dreaming and thinking beyond what exists, and I feel like music and art and all the ways that we, you know, practice joy and experience that in community with each other is part of dreaming and, um, yeah, like creating what we don't yet see.   [00:56:29] Arati: Absolutely. So that was a clip from Valarie Kaur, who's an award-winning filmmaker, and we thought it was, her words about dreaming, y'all's words about the future, hope, solidarity, also pain, and how we heal and how we move together, that's the note we wanted to end on. So thank you so much for sharing your stories, your strategy, your, hope, your dreams, your experiences of isolation, and your experiences of community, because we're not gonna get through this without each other, and we look forward to continuing working together and organizing together. And one day we will, we will win, and we'll all be liberated. Thanks, everyone.   [00:57:09] Miko Lee: Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about our show and our guests tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Pretti Mangala-Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by Swati Rayasam, and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night. The post APEX Express – 9.10.26- Reflections on the 25th Anniversary of 9/11 appeared first on KPFA.

On September 11 2001 the world changed forever and Sikh Boomers had no answer for what came next. In this episode of The Sikh Renaissance we deliver the full unfiltered indictment of Sikh Boomer leadership in the aftermath of 9/11. From the murder of Balbir Singh Sodhi to the shameful "we are not Muslim" campaigns, from the absence of SGPC and Akal Takht to the complete failure to build political infrastructure that could have protected diaspora Sikhs, this episode asks the question the Sikh establishment refuses to answer. Where was Sikh leadership when the Panth needed them most? Twenty five years later Sikh youth must learn from the generation that failed so they never repeat those failures again. Sikhi unfiltered. No apologies.

What is life really like for Sikhs inside Pakistan today? In this landmark episode of The Sikh Renaissance we sit down with Jasbir G. Singh, Chairman of the Sikh Community Balochistan and former ETPB member, for primary source testimony on the demolition of Gurdwara Singh Sabha Quetta, a 200 year old Sikh heritage site sold by Pakistani authorities for commercial development. He reveals who authorized the sale, which Gurdwaras are currently under threat, how the ETPB has systematically failed Sikh heritage, and how Pakistan's Sikh community resists forced conversion through Sikh spirituality and identity. He closes with an urgent call to action for the global Sikh diaspora. This is Sikh history being erased in real time. The Sikh Renaissance is making sure the world knows.

How did Nehru destroy the Jaat Sikh alliance and why did the Akalis let him? In this episode of The Sikh Renaissance we argue that as Sikhs forgot their heritage, Nehru and his allies cornered them politically and culturally. We examine the role of Brahm Prakash and Dr Y.S. Parmar, the Brahm Prakash-Parmar understanding that could have changed North Indian politics forever, and how Nehru used the Arya Samaj to undermine Sikh political power. We expose the dark secrets of Niyog in the Vedas, Dayanand Saraswati's character failures, and how Arya Samaj plagiarized Sikhi. We close with Guru Nanak and Guru Amardas exposing the Vedas directly. Sikh history unfiltered. No apologies.

In this week's episode, I speak with Dr. James Holt, Associate Professor of Religious Education at the University of Chester in England and author of On Holy Ground: Inter-faith Encounters and the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. I wanted to chat with him about how Latter-day Saints can hold unapologetic convictions in the Restored Gospel while simultaneously recognizing and celebrating God's active hand in other world religions. Drawing on decades of classroom teaching, interfaith leadership, and scholarly research, Dr. Holt shares how genuine, respectful dialogue can transform our understanding of God's children without compromising our own faith.We explore the theological foundations of interfaith work, the beauty of "holy envy," and practical ways we can move past mere tolerance toward deep, loving, and Christlike relationships in our everyday communities.Some highlights from this episode include:God at Work Across Faiths: Dr. Holt examines the 1978 First Presidency statement regarding God's light in moral leaders and philosophers throughout history, unpacking why recognizing divine truth across all religions is essential to understanding the full depth of Christ's grace.Moving Beyond the "Fortress Church": Addressing Patrick Mason's concept of the fortress church, Dr. Holt explains why Latter-day Saints cannot fulfill the call to be the "salt of the earth" if they isolate themselves in cultural echo chambers rather than engaging meaningfully with their neighbors.The Power of "Holy Envy": Reflections on learning from other traditions, including the Sikh principle of seva (selfless service without expectation of reward), Pope Francis's inclusive ministry in Catholicism, and the transformative focus of Buddhist mindfulness in our daily discipleship.Engaging Without Contention: Practical advice on how to handle difficult or patronizing interfaith encounters by choosing understanding over "winning," avoiding defensive "Bible bashes," and adopting Martin Buber's "I-Thou" framework to view others as fellow children of God rather than objects or potential converts.Everyday Steps for Interfaith Connection: Simple, actionable ways to start building bridges this week—from offering a warm, supportive presence to neighbors of minority faiths to asking thoughtful questions about upcoming religious holidays and traditions.Books Referenced in This Episode:On Holy Ground: Inter-faith Encounters and the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ by James Holthttps://www.cedarfort.com/products/on-holy-groundUnderstanding Sikhism: A Guide for Teachers by James D. Holthttps://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/understanding-sikhism-9781350263161/Understanding Buddhism: A Guide for Teachers by James D. Holthttps://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/understanding-buddhism-9781350330245/Towards a Latter-day Saint Theology of Religions by James Holthttps://jamesdholt.com/books/Connect with Dr. James Holt:Website: https://jamesdholt.comSocial Media (TikTok, Instagram, Facebook): @drjamesdholtFollow For All The Saints on social media for updates and inspiring content:www.instagram.com/forallthesaintspodhttps://www.facebook.com/forallthesaintspod/For All The Saints episodes are released every Monday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts and more:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVDUQg_qZIU&list=UULFFf7vzrJ2LNWmp1Kl-c6K9Qhttps://open.spotify.com/show/3j64txm9qbGVVZOM48P4HS?si=bb31d048e05141f2https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/for-all-the-saints/id1703815271If you have feedback or any suggestions for topics or guests, connect with Ben & Sean via hello@forallthesaints.org or DM on InstagramConversations to Refresh Your Faith.

An astrologer told Bhai Bahadar Singh's family that he would live only until the age of 9. Now 87+, he shares the blessing he received from Baba Nand Singh Ji and his rare personal memories of Baba Isher Singh Ji of Nanaksar Kaleran.In this special BoS TV Gurmukh Series conversation, Bhai Bahadar Singh takes us from village Bagh in pre-Partition Punjab to Nanaksar, Baghdad and Britain.He recounts his family's close relationship with Baba Nand Singh Ji, the years in which he received the darshan and Sangat of Baba Isher Singh Ji, and three unforgettable occasions when he was able to meet Baba Ji personally.Bhai Bahadar Singh recalls how his grandfather brought him before Baba Nand Singh Ji after an astrologer predicted that he would not live beyond nine. When the family later approached Baba Isher Singh Ji, he told them that the elder Baba Ji had already granted him the gift of life.Now, at 87+, Bhai Bahadur Singh preserves memories belonging to those blessed generations. In this conversation, he shares:• What it truly means to become a Gurmukh• How Baba Nand Singh Ji first came to village Bagh• The blessing Baba Ji gave to the families of the village• Baba Nand Singh Ji's extraordinary reverence for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji• Why his father was made to recite five Sukhmani Sahib Paaths• The blessing Bhai Bahadar Singh received as a young child• How Baba Isher Singh Ji confirmed that blessing when he turned 9• His personal meetings with Baba Isher Singh Ji from 1950 to 1963• What Baba Ji taught him when he was reciting Gurbani “like a machine”• His memories of Baba Isher Singh Ji's final journey to Harike Pattan• Escaping the violence of Partition on a refugee train• The importance of Sukhmani Sahib, Gurbani and Amrit Vela• Working as a civil engineer in Baghdad• Crawling beneath restricted wire to reach the historic Gurdwara in Baghdad• How daily Kirtan brought the Sikh Sangat together in Iraq• Arriving in Britain in 1967 with only £2• Life as the only turbaned Sikh in Blackpool• His 40-year connection with Nanaksar Cape Hill• Teaching Punjabi to hundreds of children• Sharing Guru Nanak Dev Ji's message through interfaith work• His advice for young Sikhs struggling to connect with GurbaniThis is not simply another biography. It is a record of lived memory, inherited testimony and a life shaped by Gurbani, Kirtan, seva and faith.Which of Bhai Bahadur Singh Ji's memories touched you most? Share your thoughts respectfully below.Continue watching the Gurmukh Series:Baba Nand Singh Ji—Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bx0ItMAgsoBaba Nand Singh Ji—Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHkAWQEUAFgBaba Isher Singh Ji Nanaksar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVJbeizncDASubscribe to BoS TV for more Sikh podcasts, rare historical accounts and conversations about the lives of Gurmukhs.#BabaNandSinghJi #BabaIsherSinghJi #Nanaksar

"I laugh when I hear that the fish in the water is thirsty. You don't grasp the fact that what is most alive of all is inside your own house, and you walk from one holy city to the next with a confused look." Kabir — the fifteenth century Indian mystic poet claimed simultaneously by Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs — saw it clearly. We are made of God's energy, sustained by God's energy at every moment. And somehow we're thirsty for what is nothing but- God's energy.  In this episode Raghunath and Kaustubha explore that image alongside Akrūra's journey to Vrindavan — and the four verses that summarize the entire Bhagavatam: God exists within everything and beyond everything. When you see without relation to him, know it as his illusory energy.  Today's episode is also a farewell. Gus — beloved dog, fixture of the podcast from its very beginning — prepares to depart with the blessing and love of devotees. May you go back to the Lord sweet Gus. Srimad Bhagavatam 10.38.11-15 ******************************************************************** LOVE THE PODCAST? WE ARE COMMUNITY SUPPORTED AND WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO JOIN! Go to https://www.wisdomofthesages.com WATCH ON YOUTUBE: https://youtube.com/@WisdomoftheSages LISTEN ON ITUNES: https://podcasts/apple.com/us/podcast/wisdom-of-the-sages/id1493055485 CONNECT ON FACEBOOK: https://facebook.com/wisdomofthesages108 *********************************************************************

"I laugh when I hear that the fish in the water is thirsty. You don't grasp the fact that what is most alive of all is inside your own house, and you walk from one holy city to the next with a confused look." Kabir — the fifteenth century Indian mystic poet claimed simultaneously by Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs — saw it clearly. We are made of God's energy, sustained by God's energy at every moment. And somehow we're thirsty for what is nothing but- God's energy.  In this episode Raghunath and Kaustubha explore that image alongside Akrūra's journey to Vrindavan — and the four verses that summarize the entire Bhagavatam: God exists within everything and beyond everything. When you see without relation to him, know it as his illusory energy.  Today's episode is also a farewell. Gus — beloved dog, fixture of the podcast from its very beginning — prepares to depart with the blessing and love of devotees. May you go back to the Lord sweet Gus. Srimad Bhagavatam 10.38.11-15 ******************************************************************** LOVE THE PODCAST? WE ARE COMMUNITY SUPPORTED AND WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO JOIN! Go to https://www.wisdomofthesages.com WATCH ON YOUTUBE: https://youtube.com/@WisdomoftheSages LISTEN ON ITUNES: https://podcasts/apple.com/us/podcast/wisdom-of-the-sages/id1493055485 CONNECT ON FACEBOOK: https://facebook.com/wisdomofthesages108 *********************************************************************

In 1984, Times of India editor Girilal Jain published "De-Turbaning of Sikhs," an editorial arguing for the systematic dismantling of Sikh identity. This episode unpacks Jain's strategy: severing Sikh youth from elder leadership, dismantling Khalsa martial tradition, and rendering a generation purposeless enough to drift toward substance abuse or conversion. We trace how this playbook echoes into today's Sikh youth crisis and what reclaiming Khalsa identity actually requires. A Sikh Renaissance deep dive into media warfare, cultural erasure, and resistance.

Kuljinder Dhillon is a common man from Majha region in Punjab. Like tens of thousands of youth, he also got swept away by the Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale-led Khalistan movement in late 1970s and early 1980s. He was inside the Golden Temple when the Indian Army launched a military operation codenamed 'Blue Star' to take control of the holy complex back from Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, who was using the Sikhism's holiest site as a launchpad for his terrorism and anti-India activities.Kuljinder Dhillon actively participated in the battle with Indian army on 4th & 5th June 1984. He was arrested later from the Golden Temple but managed to flee from a hospital where he was referred to for treating injuries inflicted by a grenade attack. He later fled to Pakistan in search of Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, believing like lakhs of other Sikhs that 'Sant' was hiding in Pakistan.Kuljinder Dhillon later got involved in smuggling activities across the border but was caught few years later. Ultimately, he got disillusioned with the Khalistan movement and is a strong opponent of the same now. His journey from extremism to mainstream is an important one that needed to be documented. Though, Kuljinder Dhillon lives like a family man in Punjab, he is constantly under the threat from Khalistanis who have made attempts on his life for speaking truth.

With three Welsh MPs in Andy Burnham's new cabinet, we speak with Lord Hain, former Secretary of State for Wales about how Stephen Kinnock will go about the job, and changes the Labour grandee would like to see made to pension provision. Kemi Badenoch was in Newport and James went to see her. She has a very positive view of the future of the Welsh Conservatives. Huw Irranca-Davies has been Llywydd for a little over two months. He explains the highs and lows of his new job. And an exhibition has opened in Cardiff central library documenting the history of Sikhs in Wales. Harry Singh whose grandfather established the capital's first gurdwara in the 1950s is with us in the studio.Continuing our series meeting new members of the Senedd, this week we have the company of Alun Cox, one of Plaid Cymru's three MSs representing Afan Ogwr Rhondda.

Welcome back to the Kaka Balli Punjabi Podcast, where we go beyond the headlines and discuss the stories shaping Punjab, India, Sikh politics, current affairs, history, geopolitics, media narratives, and society. This is an open conversation intended to encourage critical thinking, respectful debate, and deeper understanding of complex issues affecting our communities today.In today's episode, Ajay and I dive into one of the most controversial periods in recent Punjab politics and discuss the events, narratives, and questions that many people are asking but few are willing to explore in depth.In this episode we discuss:

Punjab is not just a geographical region. It is the spiritual and martial homeland of the Khalsa, built through centuries of Sikh blood, sacrifice and sovereignty.This episode draws on Rattan Singh Bhangu's Prachin Panth Prakash and other primary Sikh sources to establish why Punjab belongs exclusively to the Sikhs and what Baba Gurbaksh Singh Shahid's final stand tells us about the Khalsa's true purpose.From Guru Nanak's vision to Guru Gobind Singh Ji's declaration of Sikh supremacy, from the sacrifices of the Sikh martyrs to the final speech of Baba Gurbaksh Singh Shahid, this episode makes the historical and spiritual case for Khalsa sovereignty over Punjab that boomers, traitors and foreign aggressors have tried to erase.This is The Sikh Renaissance.

Unsealed U.S. indictments allege that India-based organized crime networks orchestrated political assassinations, extortion schemes, and large-scale drug trafficking across North America and Europe. And according to prosecutors, Canada wasn't just another country caught in the crossfire. It was both a target for extortion and a hub for cross-border operations.Host Noor Azrieh asks Punjab-based journalist and author Jupinderjit Singh: who and what, exactly, are we dealing with? Plus a conversation with Sikhs for Justice organizer Inderjeet Gosal, who says he's got a bounty on his head.Host: Noor AzriehCredits: Aviva Lessard (Senior Producer), Sam Konnert (Host/Producer), Noor Azrieh (Host/Producer), Caleb Thompson (Audio Editor and Technical Producer), Tristan Capacchione (Senior Production Supervisor), Jesse Brown (Editor), T ony Wang (Artwork)Guests: Jupinderjit Singh, Inderjeet GosalBackground reading:International Crackdown on India-Based Organized Crime Gangs Results in 24 Arrests in U.S., Canada, and Europe – United States Department of JusticeGangs of Punjab: Guns, Greed, and Girlfriends – Jupinderjit SinghIndictments tying Bishnoi to Surrey, B.C., killing detail alleged global criminal network – CBC NewsThe story of a Bishnoi foot soldier – Global NewsCBC INVESTIGATES | Extortion, drugs, assassination and transnational Indian crime syndicates: 'Operation Hard Ball' explained – Radio CanadaDeportation order issued against Bishnoi associate linked to gun used in B.C. shootings – CBC NewsCanadian border agency investigates almost 200 extortion-related cases in Greater Toronto – Toronto Star Ontario Sikh leader explains why he refused protection: 'I'd rather take India's bullet' – CBC NewsSponsors: Douglas is giving our listeners a FREE Sleep Bundle with each mattress purchase. Get the sheets, pillows, mattress and pillow protectors FREE with your Douglas purchase today at douglas.ca/canadalandVisit fizz.ca to learn more about Fizz mobile and its long list of added-value features, and activate a first plan using the referral code CAN40 to get 40$ off and 10GB of free data.Did you know we have a monthly supporter-exclusive show? Last episode, on Off the Record, Sam Konnert asked Jesse Brown all about the state of the company and where we're going in 2026. Also, why did Jesse cave to the union's demands in contract bargaining?If you want to hear that (or if you want to catch up on all the great episodes of Off The Record you've missed!) become a supporter at canadaland.com/join.If you value this podcast, Support us! You'll get premium access to all our shows ad free, including early releases and bonus content. You'll also get our exclusive newsletter, discounts on merch, tickets to our live and virtual events, and more than anything, you'll be a part of the solution to Canada's journalism crisis, you'll be keeping our work free and accessible to everybody. Make sure you're up to date on our upcoming events by going to canadaland.com/live!Can't get enough Canadaland? Follow us @Canadaland_Podcasts on Instagram and @Canadaland_Media on TikTok! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

'Australian Sikhs are more than just Uber and truck drivers', says Amardeep Singh Gill, Chair of the Young Sikh Professional Network (YSPN). YSPN's 2023 Economic Impact Report found that while Sikhs make up around 0.8 per cent of Australia's population, they contribute more than one per cent of the national economy, generating an estimated $15.4 billion annually. Speaking with SBS Punjabi, Gill said this contribution comes despite many migrants working below their skill level because of skills and employment mismatches. Listen to the full interview in this podcast to learn more about the report and its findings. - ਯੰਗ ਸਿੱਖ ਪ੍ਰੋਫੈਸ਼ਨਲ ਨੈੱਟਵਰਕ (YSPN) ਦੀ ਨਵੀਂ ਆਰਥਿਕ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਵ ਰਿਪੋਰਟ ਮੁਤਾਬਕ, ਆਸਟ੍ਰੇਲੀਆ ਦੀ ਕੁੱਲ ਆਬਾਦੀ ਦਾ ਸਿਰਫ਼ 0.8 ਫ਼ੀਸਦੀ ਹਿੱਸਾ ਹੋਣ ਦੇ ਬਾਵਜੂਦ ਸਿੱਖ ਭਾਈਚਾਰਾ ਦੇਸ਼ ਦੀ ਆਰਥਿਕਤਾ ਵਿੱਚ ਇੱਕ ਫ਼ੀਸਦੀ ਦਾ ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ਪਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। ਰਿਪੋਰਟ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ 2021 ਵਿੱਚ ਸਿੱਖ ਭਾਈਚਾਰੇ ਨੇ $15.4 ਬਿਲੀਅਨ ਦਾ ਆਰਥਿਕ ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ਦਿੱਤਾ। ਐਸਬੀਐਸ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਨਾਲ ਗੱਲਬਾਤ ਕਰਦਿਆਂ YSPN ਦੇ ਚੇਅਰ ਅਮਰਦੀਪ ਗਿੱਲ ਨੇ ਕਿਹਾ ਕਿ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਰਫ਼ ਉਬਰ ਜਾਂ ਟਰੱਕ ਡਰਾਈਵਰਾਂ ਤੱਕ ਸੀਮਤ ਕਰਕੇ ਦੇਖਣਾ ਗਲਤ ਧਾਰਨਾ ਹੈ। ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੱਸਿਆ ਕਿ ਕਈ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਸੀ ਆਪਣੇ ਅਸਲ ਹੁਨਰ ਤੋਂ ਘੱਟ ਪੱਧਰ ਦੀਆਂ ਨੌਕਰੀਆਂ ਜਾਂ ਨਵੇਂ ਕਿੱਤਿਆਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਕੰਮ ਕਰਨ ਦੇ ਬਾਵਜੂਦ ਆਸਟ੍ਰੇਲੀਆ ਦੀ ਆਰਥਿਕਤਾ ਵਿੱਚ ਮਹੱਤਵਪੂਰਨ ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ਪਾ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ। ਇਸ ਪੋਡਕਾਸਟ ਵਿੱਚ ਪੂਰਾ ਇੰਟਰਵਿਊ ਸੁਣੋ।

Download my meditation and wellness app, Swa:aha.https://app.level.game/?c=zSbmYnCheck out BeerBiceps SkillHouse Courses Here -https://linktr.ee/bbskillhouseFor all BeerBiceps vlog content Watch Life Of BeerBiceps - https://www.youtube.com/@LifeOfBeerBicepsShare your guest suggestions hereMail - connect@beerbiceps.comLink - https://forms.gle/aoMHY9EE3Cg3Tqdx9Follow BeerBiceps SkillHouse's Social Media Handles:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeerBicepsSkillHouseInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/beerbiceps_skillhouseWebsite : https://beerbicepsskillhouse.inFor any other queries EMAIL: support@beerbicepsskillhouse.comIn case of any payment-related issues, kindly write to support@tagmango.comFollow Simranjeet Singh's Social Media Handles:-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pmkctohana/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PrabhMilneKaChaoTohanaWebsite: https://www.pmkctohana.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PrabhMilneKaChaoTohana/In this 523rd episode of The Ranveer Show, we are joined by Simranjeet Singh, a Sikh spiritual teacher devoted to Naam Simran and meditation, for one of the deepest conversations we've ever had on Sikhi, Kundalini, Karma, and the unseen dimensions of human life.We talk about Simranjeet Singh's journey from his college life to years of intense Naam Jaap, the exact technique behind Waheguru Simran, Kundalini and the three Naadis, why Sikhs keep Kesh and wear the turban, Prarabdh and the Law of Attraction, past-life visions through meditation, the truth about Bhaang and intoxicants, the untold history of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the spiritual architecture of the Golden Temple, and what it truly takes to attain Moksha.This podcast is a must-watch for anyone interested in Sikhi, meditation, kundalini awakening, Gurbani, karma, and the deeper truths of existence.00:00 – Simranjeet Singh On TRS03:20 – The Technique Behind Naam Jaap05:28 – Leaving Politics for a Life of Simran06:49 – First Experiences of Anhad Vaani08:47 – The Science in Vigyan Bhairav Tantra12:40 – Why Sikhs Keep Kesh and Wear the Turban14:51 – Kundalini Awakening Explained19:17 – Prarabdh, Karma and the Law of Attraction25:43 – How Bhakti Becomes a Spiritual Shield29:17 – Dev Bhakti vs Daint Bhakti31:33 – Time Travel, Past Lives and Other Worlds37:22 – The Truth About Bhaang and Intoxicants40:48 – "This Is My Last Birth"44:51 – A Past Life Vision: The Jogi Who Lost to Ego49:28 – The Untold History of Guru Gobind Singh Ji57:15 – Decoding the Golden Temple's Spiritual Map1:02:09 – Shaheed Singhs: Sikhi's Guardian Souls1:05:58 – Why You Need a Daily Simran Practice1:08:53 – Is One Life Enough for Moksha? The Story of Ajamal1:12:23 – Decoding the Third Eye in Gurbani1:18:31 – Wrestling With Spiritual Ego1:21:36 – Struggle, Blessings and Simranjeet's Final Message

00:00 - Diljit is representing our history 05:30 - You can't criticise Diljit for what he does for Sikhs 07:55 - It's hard to watch Sikhs attacking Sikhs 11:50 - The Khalra family have only just given their permission 13:40 - What's the price you're willing to pay for truth? 16:10 - KPS Gill and the government 20:25 -Satluj was taken down within 48 hours24:28 - This story is a human rights breach 26:15 - These stories leave scars on people's mental state28:20 - Why is the Indian government so scared of people talking about 1984? 33:00 - Media blackouts, piracy and PlayStation 37:40 - The conversations move on quickly40:50 - This is the biggest genocide post 198442:15 - Indy was racially abused in Sainsbury's Follow Us On:Tik Tok - https://bit.ly/indy-and-dr-tik-tokInstagram - http://bit.ly/indy-and-dr-instaFacebook - http://bit.ly/indy-and-dr-facebookSpotify - http://bit.ly/indy-and-drAlso available at all podcasting outlets.#satluj #panjab95 #diljitdosanjh #diljit #honeytrehan

In this podcast, Kushal speaks with Canadian journalist Sameer Kaushal about what happened to the Hindus of Punjab. Punjabi history is often reduced to just one panth, i.e Sikhs. But the history of Punjab is incomplete without Hindus. Also, what did the Khalistanis do to the Hindus of Punjab? Follow them: X: @itssamonline YouTube: https://t.co/R4UtONc7Lg #satluj #diljitdosanjh #khalistan #kpsgill #punjab ------------------------------------------------------------ Listen to the podcasts on: SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/kushal-mehra-99891819 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1rVcDV3upgVurMVW1wwoBp Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-c%C4%81rv%C4%81ka-podcast/id1445348369 Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-carvaka-podcast ------------------------------------------------------------ Support The Cārvāka Podcast: Buy Kushal's Book: https://amzn.in/d/58cY4dU Become a Member on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKPx... Become a Member on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/carvaka UPI: kushalmehra@icici Interac Canada: kushalmehra81@gmail.com To buy The Carvaka Podcast Exclusive Merch please visit: http://kushalmehra.com/shop ------------------------------------------------------------ Follow Kushal: Twitter: https://twitter.com/kushal_mehra?ref_... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KushalMehraO... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecarvakap... Koo: https://www.kooapp.com/profile/kushal... Inquiries: https://kushalmehra.com/ Feedback: kushalmehra81@gmail.com

Saade Aala Radio | Punjab vs Himachal? Punjab vs Uttarakhand? Or Just Stupid People?Every time a fight breaks out involving people from different states, social media does what it does best...It stops looking for facts and starts looking for teams.In this episode, we discuss how individual crimes and clashes are quickly transformed into State vs State or Community vs Community narratives, making the situation far worse than it actually is.We begin with the recent clash involving Nihangs in Uttarakhand.Within hours, social media had already decided the story.Some called it Punjab vs Uttarakhand.Others turned it into Sikhs vs Uttarakhand.But was it really?We discuss how a dispute involving a few individuals suddenly becomes a battle between millions of innocent people who had absolutely nothing to do with the incident.We've seen this pattern before.Whenever an incident happens between Punjabis and locals in Himachal Pradesh, social media immediately turns it into Punjab vs Himachal.Instead of discussing what actually happened...People begin defending "their side."Facts disappear.Logic disappears.Only emotions remain.One of the biggest points we make in this episode is simple:If someone commits a crime...They should face legal action.Not become the representative of an entire state, religion or community.Crime belongs to individuals.Not geography.We also discuss a worrying trend seen in several incidents.Instead of informing the police or allowing the legal system to work...Groups of people decide to punish others themselves.Public beatings.Mob justice.Instant verdicts.We ask a simple question:When did ordinary citizens become the courts of India?Justice cannot exist if every crowd starts making its own law.Today people don't wait for investigations.They wait for someone to blame.One video...One headline...One viral clip......and suddenly millions of people start fighting online over something they know almost nothing about.This episode is about breaking that cycle.Because every incident deserves facts—not hashtags.At Saade Aala Radio, we believe stupidity has no religion, no state and no nationality.When someone does something wrong...Call out the individual.Not an entire community.That's how societies stay united.

This episode dismantles the Bhaichara myth by exposing centuries of Hindu-Muslim alliances against Sikhs, from the Mughal era to 1984 and beyond. Drawing on Gurbani, Sikh historical sources and geopolitical analysis, it argues that Sikh survival requires strategic clarity not interfaith sentimentality. Click to listen to more!

Earlier this year, Pew Research published the results of a study on religious diversity around the world. While the U.S. didn't even break the top 10 for most religiously diverse when all nations studied were taken into account, it ranked #1 in religious diversity out of the most populous countries.The United States certainly has a Christian tilt and a sizable population of nones. But, go to any major U.S. city and you'll spot kippahs, hijabs, turbans, and houses of worship for every major belief system on the planet.Despite the American ability to live alongside people who believe vastly different things than us, the U.S. has a horrid past with religious oppression—think of the KKK's treatment of Jewish people or the wipeout of indigenous people and their forced conversion to Christianity or the attacks on Muslims and Sikhs directly following 9/11.And while many prejudices take decades to extract the mainstream, a quick study of our history reveals that there is a clear pattern of America's ability to eventually accept religious differences.Over a century ago, the Catholics pouring in from, first, Ireland and, later, Italy, were near the bottom of the social hierarchy—pushed down by the majority protestant community who had been there much longer. Today, 6 of our 9 Supreme Court Justices are Catholic—only 2 are protestants, and one is Jewish. Pathways to success at the highest level are available to all in the U.S., even to those who, not very long ago, were seen as inferior.The U.S. has a long way to go in terms of equality and in the acceptance of all religions. But, if history repeats itself, it seems possible that even the faiths that are most discriminated against today, could also find great success here.The United States had its 250th birthday last week. And, in the last few episodes we have tried to understand the role of Christianity in America's founding. But what kinds of Christians were the first Americans? And what role did Catholics, Jews and Atheists play in the Revolution? Were there Muslims or Hindus on U.S. soil in 1776?To answer all of these questions and better understand the nature of religion at the time of America's founding I spoke with Katherine Carté. Carté is a History Professor at Southern Methodist University and wrote the book “Religion in The American Revolution: An Imperial History.”

Destiny Church leader Brian Tamaki claims he's is a responsible gun owner and hunter - after police have revoked his licence and confiscated his weapons. He's live-streamed video of police at his home this morning, taking several firearms. This month, Tamaki said New Zealand should be purged of Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims. He's still on the defence, claiming people are taking his words out of context. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tonight on The Huddle, Auckland Councillor Maurice Williamson and former Auckland mayor Phil Goff joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more! Brian Tamaki is on the defence after police revoked his licence and confiscated his weapons. The Destiny Church leader has made some incendiary comments about Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims earlier this month. What do we think of all this? Were the police right to do this? Questions have been raised over how a patient ended up unresponsive in a toilet at Waikato Hospital's Emergency Department, then died. A review has been announced - what can we expect from this? Are there bigger issues here? More than 100 New Zealand restaurants have been recognised by the Michelin Restaurant guide. What did we make of tonight's event? LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of Sikh Renaissance, we examine the political philosophy of Maharajah Ranjit Singh and challenge popular narratives that portray him as a purely moral ruler. Drawing on Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha's Raj Dharam Granth, Guru Nanak's vision of the Gurmukh ruler, and examples from Sikh history, this discussion explores power, statecraft, political strategy, and leadership in the Sikh tradition.The episode analyzes the actions of Nawab Kapur Singh, Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and Maharajah Ranjit Singh to investigate how successful rulers balanced ethics, survival, and sovereignty. It also examines the influence of Raja Harishchandra as a model of kingship, the role of Sada Kaur, the management of competing interests within the Sikh Empire, and the political lessons that modern Sikhs can learn from history.For those interested in Sikh history, Sikh political thought, Khalsa Raj, Maharajah Ranjit Singh, and contemporary Sikh leadership, this episode offers a provocative and deeply researched perspective.

From wooing minority Hindus to reaching out to the Dalits and making an outreach to the Sikhs, the BJP is leaving no stone unturned in Punjab. It plans to make misgovernannce, drug menace and conversion the central poll planks. In this episode, ThePrint Political Editor DK Singh explains what makes BJP so optimistic in Punjab.

ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਤਾਪੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ਗੁਰਿ ਪੂਰੇ ॥ ਵਾਜੇ ਅਨਹਦ ਤੂਰੇ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਕਲਿਆਣ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਕੀਨੇ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਆਪਿ ਦੀਨੇ ॥੧॥ ਬੇਦਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਗਵਾਈ ॥ ਸਿਖ ਸੰਤ ਸਭਿ ਸਰਸੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਜੋ ਮੰਗਹਿ ਸੋ ਲੇਵਹਿ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅਪਣਿਆ ਸੰਤਾ ਦੇਵਹਿ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਗੋਵਿਦੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਰਾਖਿਆ ॥ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਚੁ ਸੁਭਾਖਿਆ ॥੨॥੬॥੭੦॥ ਅਰਥ: ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਸਾਰੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਸੰਤ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰ ਸਿਮਰ ਕੇ ਆਨੰਦ-ਭਰਪੂਰ ਹੋਏ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ। (ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਭੀ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿਆ) ਗੁਰੂ ਨੇ ਆਪ (ਉਸ ਦੀ ਹਰੇਕ) ਪੀੜਾ ਦੂਰ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤੀ।ਰਹਾਉ।ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਨੇ (ਹਰਿ-ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਦਵਾਈ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰੋਂ) ਤਾਪ ਦੂਰ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ, (ਉਸ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਦੇ, ਮਾਨੋ) ਇਕ-ਰਸ ਵਾਜੇ ਵੱਜਣ ਲੱਗ ਪਏ। ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਉਹ ਸਾਰੇ ਸੁਖ ਆਨੰਦ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ ਦਿੱਤੇ।੧।ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਤੇਰੇ ਦਰ ਤੋਂ ਤੇਰੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਨ) ਜੋ ਕੁਝ ਮੰਗਦੇ ਹਨ, ਉਹ ਹਾਸਲ ਕਰ ਲੈਂਦੇ ਹਨ। ਤੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਸੰਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ (ਆਪ ਸਭ ਕੁਝ) ਦੇਂਦਾ ਹੈਂ। (ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਬਾਲਕ) ਹਰਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਨੂੰ (ਭੀ) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ (ਆਪ) ਬਚਾਇਆ ਹੈ (ਕਿਸੇ ਦੇਵੀ ਆਦਿਕ ਨੇ ਨਹੀਂ) ਹੇ ਦਾਸ ਨਾਨਕ! ਆਖ-) ਮੈਂ ਤਾਂ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਉਚਾਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ।੨।੬।੭੦।SORATH, FIFTH MEHL:The Perfect Guru has dispelled the fever. The unstruck melody of the sound current resounds. God has bestowed all comforts. In His Mercy, He Himself has given them. || 1 || The True Guru Himself has eradicated the disease. All the Sikhs and Saints are filled with joy, meditating on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. || Pause || They obtain that which they ask for. God gives to His Saints. God saved Hargobind. Servant Nanak speaks the Truth. || 2 || 6 || 70 ||

Punjabi Muslims call the Anglo-Sikh Wars the Anglo-Punjabi Wars. But the historical record tells a different story. The Khalsa army was Sikh at its core. Only the artillery gun crews were Muslim, serving under Sikh officers in a Sikh imperial state. Some Punjabi Muslims even raised irregular levies to fight for the British against the Sikhs. Now, facing pressure from Afghans and Balochis, they are claiming Ranjit Singh and Sikh military history as their own. This episode examines the historical lie, the Anglo-Sikh Wars, and what Ranjit Singh actually did to Punjabi Muslim communities.The Sikh Renaissance is independent Sikh analysis rooted in primary sources and Gurbani. No institutional backing. No compromise.For deeper analysis of the Gurbani and primary sources referenced in this video, visit The Sikh Renaissance on Substack. Independent Sikh philosophy, history and intellectual tradition. Rigorous argument, no institutional compromise.https://thesikhrenaissance.substack.comSupport independent Sikh scholarship and keep this work alive.

Coptic Christians, the largest Christian minority in Egypt, have maintained a distinct religious and cultural identity for centuries, but they often face challenges living as a minority in a predominantly Muslim society. They frequently encounter social discrimination, periodic outbreaks of sectarian violence, and economic or political marginalization, especially in rural areas. Despite constitutional protections, bureaucratic hurdles, such as difficulties obtaining permits to build or repair churches, continue to affect daily religious life. Yet the Coptic community remains resilient, playing a significant role in Egypt's history, culture, and professional life while working to preserve its traditions and secure equal participation in public life. And at the same time, those Coptics who are able to migrate to the U.S. have faced a significant amount of discrimination, as many Arab Christians (along with Indian Hindus, Sikhs, etc.) are taken for Muslims. In these episodes Fred Stella speaks to Dr. Candace Lukasik from Mississippi State University to continue to talk about her documentation of this issue in the book Martyrs and Migrants. Theme music "Nigal."

00:00 - Why is Vickrum Digwa in the news? 02:10 - What is a Kirpan? 03:56 - Are you covered under the law if you're not Amritdhari (baptised)?06:15 - Defence vs Exemption examples07:25 - Did Vickrum Digwa use a Kirpan or a Shastar, and what's the difference?10:22 - Why should we carry multiple Shastars living outside of India? 12:46 - How do we know if someone's responsible enough to carry a Kirpan? 14:45 - The Sikh Community are being collectively punished 17:06 - Wearing the Kirpan as an 'act of resistance' within the youth 18:59 - Introducing mental health checks when taking Amrit (being baptised)?21:54 - Are there any preventative checks the Sikh community can make?24:03 - How would the community feel if the Kirpan was changed to necklace form?26:05 - Legally, a Kirpan cannot be used for self-defence 28:40 - Is carrying a Kirpan on your wedding day covered under the law? 30:21 - Could we standardise the Kirpan to be blunt in the UK? 32:47 - There is no link between carrying the Kirpan and knife crime34:39 - A Kirpan stops being a Kirpan when you draw it 38:14 - Banning the Kirpan will not stop knife crime 40:07 - Why doesn't the UK follow the same laws as other European countries? 43:58 - Why did the UK accommodate carrying the Kirpan?47:22 - How do we respond to people saying carrying the Kirpan is now redundant?50:31 - If it's just a symbol, is it still needed?51:43 - The difference between Sikhi and Abrahamic beliefs53:38 - What was Vickrum Digwa's motive to attack Henry Nowak?57:36 - Vickrum admitted he had no defence if there were cameras 59:22 - Was Vickrum Digwa's Dastaar actually knocked off? 01:06:53 - Where did the incident take place? 01:09:08 - Was Vickrum kicked out of his local Gurdwara for stealing Shastars?01:10:46 - Will this have an effect on Nagar Kirtans, Gatka displays etc? 01:13:18 - Where do Sikh Tommy Robinson supporters stand now?01:16:16 - What does the future look like for the Sikh Community? 01:18:41 - Could there be a mass exodus of Amritdhari Sikhs from the UK? 01:20:38 - There might be further accommodations rather than restrictions 01:22:02 - Potential outcomes for future Kirpan laws in the UK 01:23:57 - Has the Sikh community represented themselves well to justify why we should carry the Kirpan?01:28:33 - Who would have been best to educate on behalf of the Sikh community? 01:32:39 - This is a historic turning point in history Follow  ⁨Ramblings Of A Sikh⁩  on:Substack - https://ramblingsofasikh.substack.com/YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/ramblingsofaSikh/Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ramblingsofasikh/Twitter/X - https://x.com/RamblingSingh/Follow Us On:TikTok - https://bit.ly/indy-and-dr-tik-tokInstagram - http://bit.ly/indy-and-dr-instaFacebook - http://bit.ly/indy-and-dr-facebookSpotify - http://bit.ly/indy-and-drAlso available at all podcasting outlets.#kirpan #vickrumdigwa #henrynowak #sikh #sikhism

Send us Fan MailFIRST HALF: Attorney General of Florida, James Uthmeier, is back in 2nd Amendment news by declaring Florida's 3-day and 5-day waiting (stalling?) periods unconstitutional.SECOND HALF: Massachusetts school district allows Sikh students to carry their ceremonial knives, while continuing to ban all knives and all other weapons from the rest of the student body.Ninth Circuit rules that suppressors are not protected by the 2nd Amendment.Support the showGiveSendGo | Unconstitutional 2A Prosecution of Tate Adamiak Askari Media GroupBuy Paul Eberle's book "Look at the Dirt"Paul Eberle (lookatthedirt.com)The Deadly Path: How Operation Fast & Furious and Bad Lawyers Armed Mexican Cartels: Forcelli, Peter J., MacGregor, Keelin, Murphy, Stephen: 9798888456491: Amazon.com: Books

Spencer Pratt is robbed, sending piss bottles through the mail, a robot fights a child, no more cigarettes, a man in cargo shorts melts down, Sikhs circle the wagons after Henry Nowak, and Madcucks calls in to thank everyone for ten years of content; all that and more this week on The Dick Show!

On Friday, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dame Sarah Mullally, told a House of Lords debate that current AI regulation is “wholly inadequate”, saying the technology raises fundamental questions about what it means to be human, what we're here for, and how we discern truth. William speaks to the Bishop of Leicester, Martyn Snow, who also spoke in that Lords debate. Also on the programme, the murder of Henry Nowak has brought renewed attention to the Sikh kirpan, a small ceremonial dagger worn by initiated Sikhs as an article of faith, despite it not being used in this attack. Some politicians are now questioning the legal exemption that allows it to be carried. As Sikh organisations prepare new education initiatives and community leaders reflect on what one academic has called a "watershed moment"- what will the debate mean for Britain's Sikhs and for the future of religious freedom. William speaks to the CEO of Sikh Women, Sahdaish Pall.A new song from a Catholic composer has been released to coincide with the 2026 World Cup, which kicks off in Mexico on Thursday. Three Lions Rising was composed by Andrew Dineen, whose early encounters with music include hearing his father play the church organ. William speaks to Andrew, and to Lisa Grand who was the lead singer alongside the choirs of St Edward's School and Ashley Manor Prep School in Cheltenham. Presenter: William Crawley Producers: Bara'atu Ibrahim & James Graham Studio Managers: Olivia Miceli & Catherine Everatt Editor: Chloe Walker

Demography is destiny. The ancient Sikhs understood this instinctively. The Khalsa ruled majority Hindu and Muslim populations through force, strategic manipulation and the fear of Sikh sovereignty. Chanakya pointed out that the elephant fears the goad in the hands of its master. This was the Sikh art of ruling.Edward Lang's recent speech on the Hindu Muslim demographic takeover of Texas is not radical. It is what every Sikh leader should have been saying for decades. While Lang and his kind are no great friends of the Sikhs they are saying something that Sikh boomer leadership should have started thinking about after the 1980s. Sikhs cannot keep relying on a fast unravelling west.Guru Nanak Dev Ji warned us in his own Gurbani at Ang 1190 about the demographic conquest of Islamic ideology. Guru Gobind Singh Ji demonstrated the Khalsa response at Alsoon. Kavi Sainapati records in his eyewitness account Sri Gur Sobha how Guru Gobind Singh Ji razed the village of Alsoon to the ground after its inhabitants provided intelligence to Hindu kings and Mughals against Sikhs, abducted and harassed Sikh women and refused to pay tribute to the Khalsa despite living in Sikh territory.This was not cruelty. This was Chanakya Neeti applied through Gurmat. Demographic security through decisive sovereign action.Sikh boomer leadership had a moment after 9/11 where the West was asking questions about demographics and civilizational conflict. Instead of engaging honestly from the Khalsa's historical perspective they retreated into secular liberal apologetics. Sikhs were never secular. The Khalsa controlled majority populations through force and strategic manipulation. That wisdom was abandoned and Punjab is paying the price today.The Hindu Muslim demographic war against Sikhs is more real than it is against the West. Mosques are rising across Doaba, Majha and Malwa. Bihari Sanataanis have entered Punjab en masse. Punjabi Christians are increasing. The demographic catastrophe is not coming. It is already here.Demography is destiny. Multiculturalism is a hollow illusion without the force of arms. Will we renew Guru Gobind Singh Ji's call at Alsoon or not?

Beadbi is back in the news, and this time, the Panjab government has passed a new law. But is a state-legislated solution what the Panth needs?What are the implications of a law written without the input or consent of the Akal Takht Sahib, the political seat of authority for Sikhs? Join Harinder Singh and Jasleen Kaur as they return to the question of ‘sacrilege,' Sikh governance, and what it means when the state steps in to deal with matters over which Sikh institutions are meant to have authority.Featuring:Harinder Singh (https://sikhri.org/people/harinder-singh)Jasleen Kaur (https://sikhri.org/people/jasleen-kaur)

APEX Express is a weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. On this episode, host Miata Tan is joined by guests from the South Asian Coalition, an emergent national network committed to collective liberation and solidarity. Together they explore what it means to build South Asian political power in this moment—and how cross-movement solidarity can shape a more just, multiracial future. Learn more about the South Asian Coalition Website | Instagram | Policy Priorities   The South Asian Coalition was convened in October 2024 by: Manavi, Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, Muslims for Just Futures, and Raksha.   Transcript ​[00:00:00]  Miata Tan : Hello and welcome. You are tuning in to APEX Express, a weekly radio show uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. I'm your host, Miata Tan. Tonight, we're focusing on South Asian communities and the organizers working to build political power. South Asians are one of the fastest-growing racial groups in the United States, Over six million people [00:01:00] and roughly a quarter of the Asian American population. South Asian is used as a broad umbrella term for people with roots in countries such as India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka, and sometimes Afghanistan. Though exact definitions can vary across communities and organizations. And as we'll talk about tonight, within the South Asian diaspora who call the United States home, you have a mix of nationalities, religion, immigration status, and more. Tonight, I'm joined by four people working to address the issues impacting South Asian communities in the US and beyond. At a time when questions of belonging, safety, and political power continue to shape immigrant communities across the country, South Asian organizers are building new forms of solidarity while also grappling with the diversity and complexity within their own communities. The first voice you'll hear is Sabiha Basrai Sabiha is the daughter of Muslim Gujarati immigrants and has been [00:02:00] organizing with the Bay Area-based Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA, since 2009. Here's Sabiha helping us to understand how South Asian political organizing has evolved in the United States, especially in the post 9/11 era Sabiha Basrai: Thanks for the opportunity to do some reflection this year marks the 25th anniversary of 9/11, which was a real a political flashpoint that absolutely changed my life because I was a 19-year-old college student trying to figure out a lot of things about how the world works and my place in it, and my own identity and the multiple identities I hold. Uh, and also where my responsibilities lied in solidarity, not just with other Muslims who were being targeted, but our broad immigrant diasporas and allies, uh, who have experienced discrimination in different forms from the state. So thinking about the ways in which- organizing happened in the, months and years after 9/11 to support immigrant [00:03:00] rights that was really a time in which new projects formed, um, or existing projects kind of found a new focus. ASATA as an organizing project, as a group of volunteers, has both done things like shown up to support folks being called up for the NCR's Special Registration Program and also participate in direct action protests in solidarity against the war, and has continued to be part of coalitional work regionally in the Bay Area. And, you know, more recently, uh, when we think about the ways in which our communities under, are under increased pressure with the Trump administration's immigrant policies, there have been also opportunities to build more relationships and make sure that as we advocate for our community's rights, we're doing so in formation with others, not just focusing on one particular bad piece of legislation, but connecting that to a larger story, to really build towards liberation for all of us. I'll [00:04:00] just add, too that those relationships that were kind of seeded and invested in in that moment of crisis and anxiety and fear have endured in many ways to now. The fact that that very ecosystem is actually growing in this moment is a testament to the relationships that were built in those days. Miata Tan : That was Sabiha Basrai grounding us in the history of South Asian political organizing in the US. As she mentioned, for many South Asians, 9/11 marked a particularly mobilizing moment, one that helped our communities organized and built solidarity. To help us better understand how that moment influenced the evolution of progressive South Asian activism, we now turn to Deepa Iyer, South Asian American writer, strategist, and lawyer. Deepa leads projects on solidarity and social movements at Building Movement Project and brings more than 25 years of experience in Asian American organizing and advocacy Deepa Iyer: I think that I would say that there [00:05:00] were, looking back, a couple of trends and themes that we can pull out from that time. one is that there was definitely a shift in the general consciousness of South Asian communities about our place in American society, our understanding of racism, Islamophobia, and also the role of the state. And so we had a situation where both hate violence and state violence were actually being endured by South Asian, Muslim, Arab communities. And so I think that there was a shift in the ways in which our communities began to think about ourselves in the United States. A second piece is the growth of a field, an ecosystem of South Asian organizations in the wake of the attacks and the global war on terror. So we began to see a lot of groups that were actually formed or becoming more staffed up in the weeks and months after 9/11. For example, the Sikh [00:06:00] Coalition was actually birthed the evening of the attacks, and an organization that I was close to, SALT, was also emerging and forming in the months after 9/11 as well. So we began to see that a, a field was growing. And the third, sort of theme I would point out that Sabihah alluded to is this sense of solidarity, that instead of sort of being siloed as, you know, South Asians working within just our communities and just talking about certain specific issues, there was real sense that we needed to collaborate and build bridges with Arab, Muslim, Sikh, and, Black communities in the United States to understand the trajectory of racism and xenophobia, and how they were all kind of coming together in the weeks after 9/11. Those three themes and trends are what, when I look back, I see coming up over and over again in our messaging and in our advocacy. Miata Tan : [00:07:00] That was Deepa Iyer, as you heard from Deepa, collaboration across movements was essential in helping South Asian communities to understand and respond to the waves of xenophobia in the wake of 9/11. Now we turn to Rajiv Narayan and Farah Mahesri, who lead national policy work at the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA together they launched and now co-lead ASATA's new political base building group, ASATA Power. Rajiv begins by reflecting on what South Asian communities are facing today and what has and hasn't changed since 9/11. Rajiv Narayan: I think unfortunately many of the challenges present in the early 2000s remain today. They take new form. Some have evolved and transformed, but they were ex- existed in, in much the same form following 9/11. One of the, the instances in which I, I learned about that is at the recent South Asian Coalition convening where we did this exercise in mapping a number of [00:08:00] historical and present day events, as well as a future vision of things that are important to our organizations and to our movements. And something that we reflected on together in the convening is that a number of these attacks on our communities have waxed and waned, uh, at different periods in time, dating back to the, the 1960s and truly at, even at the beginning of, you know, the 19th century and the late 18th century. And so, to answer your question specifically, in the early 2000s, like Deepa and Sabihah mentioned, we've dealt with, uh, an incredible expression of Islamophobia of, uh, anti-Brown and anti-Black racism and hate speech. There was a, in, in general a skepticism and unwelcoming of South Asian communities. And unfortunately with the current federal administration and political discourse in our country, uh, a number of those same themes are relevant today and take on similar forms, whether they're in [00:09:00] response to what the federal administration is doing in countries like Iran or previous administrations have done in Afghanistan or Pakistan. I think all of those events underscore all the more so that it's important for our organizations to, organize together, much as we did in the early 2000s, to address these harms, to remember what they look like at previous stages of history, and to fight to prevent them again from happening in the future. Miata Tan : Farah, perhaps you could speak a bit to the organizing. What did that look like, a few years ago, and what does that look like today? How has that changed? Farah Mahersi: Rajiv and I started ASATA Power a couple of years ago specifically to be able to look forward to practice radical imagination, and fight for not just protection of our communities, which we will always do. That is built into our DNAs. It's what we know. It's how we move. And also to fight for things that we want, to build the world that we want to live in so that we're not constantly caught in these cycles. And as we're doing [00:10:00] that, we are learning a lot about how organizing is happening today, the BLM movement, Black Lives Matter, and incredible street power, but also that movement's ability to change our national discourse and change what is baseline, what we should be demanding, and how we are visioning a future that is built on policies governance and hard material changes in our lives is profound. beyond that, also the Palestine solidarity movement over the last couple of years has rewritten every book about organizing. And so I think that it is an interesting moment of both a little bit of sadness, to be honest, that we are still fighting some of these same fights and we are still in some of these same dynamics that we have been for 25 years, and the profound opportunity that we have to build power and to look forward, and I think that is, more true in the Bay Area than it is almost everywhere else. Uh, because of what our workforce looks like, because of the sheer [00:11:00] amount of wealth that is accumulated in this little corner of our world, and also when you look around at the political power and people who hold political power or are running for political power and elected office around the Bay Area, you could really start to see not just how South Asians are increasingly politicized and increasingly looking to build electoral and political power, but also s- very specifically progressive political power. And so when you look to Congress now, The progressive caucus is full of South Asian progressives who are leading the charge, who are doing some of this critical work, that's part of our organizing strategy, is to be part of those conversations and to continue to push and to continue to, again, advocate for policies and changes at that big level to make the future we want possible. Miata Tan : I love that. Coming together to dream and really fight. Rajiv, you are leading this work at the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action. Can you speak more to why the Bay Area [00:12:00] is a, like, a distinct microcosm in this progressive South Asian movement? Rajiv Narayan: Of course. So Farah and I, we both work together at ASATA Power, and ASATA is sort of political power building project within the auspices of, uh, ASATA which has been operating in the Bay Area for more than 25 years now. I think what makes the Bay Area a microcosm of the South Asian diaspora is a tremendous amount of diversity and, uh, a set of interrelated intersectional challenges. So you have, uh, folks of South Asian descent with all different immigration histories. So I'm, for example, a person, um, who has birthright citizenship in the United States as I was born here. But there are folks who immigrated here, like my parents and had to attain their citizenship uh, through the, the US legal system, and folks beyond that who are refugees or asylees or are undocumented due to a variety of political and social and economic pressures. And so we all coexist in this same space across an economic gradient. So there are folks [00:13:00] who are very well compensated in the tech sectors and healthcare sectors sometimes, uh, characterized, uh, as part of a, a model minority myth, um, as representatives of the South Asian diaspora, um, within the San Francisco Bay Area and the United States broadly. And then there are whole variety of South Asians who are working in less well-compensated, often quite exploited industries. For example, in, care industries as people who are providing childcare or senior care services, people who are working in the restaurant industry folks who are lesser compensated within healthcare as well as in tech industries and other ways. Of course, those economic positions interact with the political and legal system. So for example, even if a person might be, um, well-compensated in a tech job in the Bay Area, um, which they attained by way of an H-1B visa that person might be subject to exploitative labor conditions based on the, uh, the legal configuration of how H-1B [00:14:00] visas are treated. For example, that you depend on your employer for your immigration status in this country, which changes the worker-employer relationship in a way that makes it very difficult to identify workplace abuses. beyond that, we also have a diverse range of South Asians across the age gradient. So we have folks who are quite young, who are in Gen Z, and are entering politics in a completely different way than somebody like myself or Deepa entered politics at, in earlier in, in our lives and experience it today, which provides an opportunity for us to learn from earlier generations and to also share lessons from our political experience. So like with many things, the Bay Area has it all, the good and the bad, and ASATA and ASATA Power work within that, that space to identify opportunities for solidarity. Miata Tan : That was Rajiv Narayan and Farah Mehestri. Through their work with the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA, Rajiv and Farah are helping to build South Asian political power here in the Bay Area and [00:15:00] nationwide. The ASATA team and all four of our guests tonight are connected through the South Asian Coalition, a network of local and national organizations focused on advancing policy issues affecting South Asian communities and building shared spaces for strategy and collaboration. To better understand this evolving movement of progressive South Asian action, let's return to Deepa Iyer, who shares how and why this coalition came together Deepa Iyer: Yeah. I really appreciate Rajiv bringing up, um, how- what is happening in the Bay Area is part of a larger movement. And what I would say about this ecosystem, this field that I talked about earlier, and I've been able to understand this through the course of the work I've done, but also a book I've written about post 9/11 America, is that so much happens on the coasts, and we often forget that there are organizations and are communities that are really [00:16:00] growing in other parts of the country, right? You know, I grew up in Kentucky, um, and there are places like Kentucky and Indiana where you are seeing, um, more South Asians settle and build their lives there. So one of the things that I think has been important in thinking about as we come up on this 25th anniversary of 9/11 is how our coalition of South Asian groups, how that field has grown with these additional organizations, in geographic areas that are different, as well as the ways in which folks are organizing. So now we've got, for example, groups that are working with Bhutanese refugees or Nepali-speaking community members, or groups that are organizing around the exploitation of community members based on caste. These are, um, really important movement interventions and organizations that are growing. one of the key aspects of network infrastructure is the ability to connect with each other, [00:17:00] not to flatten our experiences and say we're all the same, but to actually find some threads of commonality in our shared struggle and our experiences, and to also know that together as collectives, as Farah mentioned earlier, we can actually build the futures that we wanna see. One of the really, I think, inspiring pieces of coalition building that I've been fortunate to work with and support along with, um, everyone here is the South Asian Coalition, which is this emergent network of now 35 organizations around the country, and this coalition really seeks to build relationships and strengthen relationships, engage in peer learning and skills building, make it clear that there are certain policy issues that we need to uplift and to advocate around, and to create opportunities and pathways for solidarity with larger movements. This coalition and the infrastructure that it's been [00:18:00] creating is a way for us to look at our ecosystem of South Asian organizing in this moment, and to really see what happens when we galvanize our power collectively. Miata Tan : and Deepa, can you share a bit about the various co-conveners that make up the South Asian Coalition?  Deepa Iyer: So the South Asian Coalition, um, as we've mentioned, is this emergent network of groups that address various issues but are aligned around shared values. And the groups that really came together to co-convene it include Asad the Power, as well as Muslims for Just Futures, Raksha, which is an organization in the South, and Manavi, which is based in New Jersey. And these four organizations really had the vision to set up the structure for the coalition. the organization where I work at, Building Movement Project, supports the coalition through infrastructure, so providing facilitation, providing resources, policy analysis, and creating the container to support [00:19:00] movements in that way, which is so critical for coalitions. Miata Tan : That was Deepa Iyer a South Asian American writer, strategist, and lawyer. after the break, we'll hear more from organizers and advocates working to address issues shaping South Asian communities today. Stay with us  [00:20:00] [00:21:00] that was “Phenom” by Thao and the Get Down Stay Down. You are tuned into [00:22:00] APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, a weekly radio show uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. I'm your host, Miada Tan. Tonight, I'm joined by four people who are working to address the issues impacting South Asian communities in the US and beyond. Back in March, organizers, advocates, and community leaders from across the country gathered in Washington, DC, for a national convening focused on the challenges and possibilities facing South Asian communities today. Here's Sabiha Basrai with the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA. She speaks about how this coalition of progressive South Asian groups formed and why this moment called for it. Sabiha Basrai: So this new emergent South Asian Coalition had its first convening in Washington, DC in March, and this was, the culmination of, a little over a year of monthly Zoom calls which started because [00:23:00] we knew we were on the verge of a Trump re-election. Uh, we knew that there was this ecosystem of South Asian activism and organizing across the country. Some of us knew each other from previous collaborations, but some of us didn't. New organizations were forming, and there was this recognition that we need each other in order to face what's coming, and we are stronger together. And we know that being South Asian is not a monolith, uh, that we deal with within our own communities based on labor exploitation, caste discrimination, anti-Muslim violence. And when we talk to each other, when we connect, we give ourselves the best chance at being able to move through those pieces of pain and build towards a future where we can all feel a sense of belonging, feel represented, and an agency in shaping that future together. So what started with a few conversations with a few folks, grew steadily [00:24:00] and, um, and through some intentional work to, to kind of invite each other in, which is of course an ongoing process, we were able to unite under this umbrella called the South Asian Coalition. Uh, we committed to some shared political points of unity and kind of community agreements to really set some expectations with one another on how we could move well in formation. And, made sure we had pathways to share information with each other so that someone like me working in Oakland could understand what, uh, someone working in Texas or in Georgia was facing, what local policy positions they were needing to, to navigate. And, uh, we could give each other advice, give each other moral support, and also sharpen our political understandings. So, uh, these kind of, uh, regular check-ins was one way of just understanding what we were all facing and feeling connected. But, actually being together in person was remarkable. I cannot overstate how much of a difference it makes to be able to share [00:25:00] space and see each other as whole people and not just representatives of a particular organization or a particular issue area, and, have those in-between moments where we actually build, build some friendships. One of the things that was also really important for me to understand when we met together was just how important that intergenerational work is. we had folks in the room who were, in their 50s and 60s who had been doing this work for decades. And we had folks in the room who were in their 20s for whom 9/11 was, something that happened in history. The conversations that were happening across generations informed the way that we think about ourselves as a coalition and helped me also to let go of some of the constraints that, kept my imagination small about what we were capable of. I was really grateful that so many people attended and chose to prioritize that work. It's hard, you know, to take a pause from The daily work to leave, fly to [00:26:00] DC take those risks as well because for many of us, uh, going through TSA is no small thing. There's a lot of harassment and racism that still permeate, you know, these institutions. So not to minimize just the effort that ta- it takes to convene and really make the most of our time together. One of the things that we did while we were in DC together was hold a congressional briefing to really, uh, amplify and share the issues that were coming up for our communities that folks were already working very hard on. Miata Tan : That was Sabiha Basrai with the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA. Now let's return to Rajiv Narayan, another member of the ASATA team and co-lead of their political action group, ASATA Power. Rajiv will take you inside the congressional briefing that Sabiha mentioned and how South Asian organizers from across the country shared the issues shaping their communities and what support is needed now Rajiv Narayan: We in ASATA Power worked in [00:27:00] collaboration with a number of the organizations in the South Asian coalition, to put together a congressional briefing on the issue of South Asians and immigration in the heart of Washington, DC, in the halls of Congress in Capitol Hill. And we were fortunate to do so in collaboration with Representatives Pramila Jayapal and Grace Meng. we had a number of, speakers representing, different perspectives and political struggles within the South Asian, uh, space in the United States, especially as it relates to immigration. So, for example, we had representatives from the Dalit Solidarity Forum talking about the plight of oppressed workers, caste-oppressed workers, in New Jersey working in a Hindu temple.  ​ Dr Roja Sunganthy-Singh – Dalit: I stand here as a Dalit, formerly known as an untouchable in India's caste system, speaking for over two hundred skilled Dalit artisans who were brought to the US from India to build the largest Hindu temple in New Jersey. In their words, ” We are the Indian stone workers of America, workers [00:28:00] rescued by the FBI in twenty twenty-one from forced labor conditions constructing the BAPS temple in New Jersey. we were brought to the US on R one visas and compelled to perform construction labor for over eighty-seven hours a week and paid just a dollar twenty an hour. Rajiv Narayan: We heard from, um, the executive director of the Sikh Coalition talking about Sikh truck drivers and religious workers and their experience under the federal regime's, uh, rule-making efforts. Harman Singh – Sikh Coalition: Uh, Punjabi Sikhs began entering the US trucking industry in large numbers during the nineteen eighties, and Sikh truck drivers and business owners have played a critical role in addressing driver shortages over the past several years. Unfortunately, Sikhs in this critical industry have become the subject of harmful rhetoric and policy from this current administration. These drivers are being excluded solely because of their specific immigration status and regardless of their driving histories, skills, knowledge, or English proficiency.  Rajiv Narayan: We heard from, the executive director of Asian Refugees United, who [00:29:00] spoke about the experience of Bhutanese refugees who have been rendered stateless by the current administration's, deportation efforts Robin Gurung – ARU: Because of the ethnic cleansing campaign of Bhutan government, more than hundred thousand Bhutanese citizens were forced to flee the country. For twenty years, I lived in a refugee camp in Nepal. In 2008, the government of this country came to rescue us. We were promised safety and security. But last year, that promise was broken. As of March 2025, over seventy of our community members are deported to Bhutan, the same country that persecuted us and made us refugees. These community members are kidnapped from their homes and jobs. They have been taken from their routine ICE check-ins. We know due process was not followed. Rajiv Narayan: We also heard from the executive director of Raksha, a domestic violence organization based in the Southern United States that has played an instrumental role in supporting South Asians who have been the victims [00:30:00] and who are now survivors of domestic and intimate partner violence, about the needs for supporting these kinds of organizations, with federal dollars and through the grant-making systems conditions. Aparna Bhattacharyya – Raksha: For thirty years, we have supported community members in navigating interpersonal violence, but also waves of racism and policy backlash.  South Asian and Indo-Caribbean survivors need safe places to turn, safe places that speak their language, understand their unique immigration and cultural needs. Raksha recently had $700,000 in OVC grants terminated by DOGE. additionally, we are still waiting for OVW sexual assault cultural funds for five months, where we have gotten no determination of whether we're getting that funding or not. Five months. Rajiv Narayan: We also heard from, the director of the South Asian American Justice Collaborative, which is currently, before the US Supreme Court in the birthright citizenship case, and [00:31:00] filed this foundational amicus brief detailing the story of South Asians in the United States going back to the 1600s. Klapana Peddibhotla – SAAJCO: Our brief pushes back against this notion that we are forever foreign.  South Asians actually arrived on these shores in the sixteen hundreds, and by the seventeen hundreds, South Asians were already asserting their rights here. In an Afghan immigrant actually fought in the Civil War in the Union Army. by the late nineteenth century, the largest farming group in Central California was formed by Punjabis. Today, South Asians are one of the largest immigrant populations in the US, but many families are caught in immigration backlogs that last for decades and make them vulnerable to the President's executive order restricting birthright citizenship. Rajiv Narayan: Across all of these speakers, you know, the, the, the message became very clear that we have so many different struggles, but they're all [00:32:00] united by a sense of solidarity for each other's political experiences under the same system of exploitation and oppression, and that there, there's so much that Congress can do in this moment to support the South Asian diaspora in the United States and, and even abroad in some cases. for ASATA Power's part, we, had the opportunity to put together over the course of the last year a policy brief on undocumented South Asians, and it was during the congressional briefing that we shared some pretty startling statistics that we, collected and collated from a number of public sources. And so what we were able to identify for the room is that there are about eight hundred thousand to nine hundred thousand undocumented South Asians in the United States, and because there are only six point five million South Asians in the US, both those who are undocumented and those who have birthright citizenship or are otherwise naturalized, refugees, asylees, and, and everyone in between. Of those six point five million South Asians One in eight of [00:33:00] them is undocumented, which is shocking and not something that somebody would understand at the outset given these problematic narratives like the model minority myth and whatever you see these days on X or Twitter about South Asian immigrants. So it's important for us not only to, to set the narrative straight and to identify both the diversity and opportunity for solidarity across our struggles, but to do so in the halls of power and to speak that truth to power directly. Miata Tan : That's Rajiv with ASATA Power reflecting on a recent congressional briefing in Washington, DC he helped to organize alongside other progressive South Asian leaders, organizers, and activists. Here's a snippet of Rajiv's opening remarks at the briefing Rajiv Narayan: I want to draw your attention to the slide behind me, they'll show a couple of images of South Asian community members who've been impacted recently by the horrific policies and practices of the federal administration. These members include Sheraz Fatehali Sachwani, a forty-eight-year-old citizen of Pakistan who died in ICE [00:34:00] detention last December. They include seventy-three-year-old Harjit Kaur, who was arrested during a routine ICE check-in, separated from her family, and deported to India without notice. I should say, I grew up seeing Harjit Kaur behind the counter at Sari Palace in Berkeley. She would help my mom try on saris. Her home was here. Her community was here. You know, these are just some of the names and stories of community members who have been affected by immigration policy as of late, and we hope that you will keep them in mind as you hear from our speakers today. There are many more we were not able to picture or name, but their stories are just as important. We'll be making many asks over the course of today's briefing. Some of those include the following: Congress should not increase funding for ICE or Border Patrol, including providing funds for detention facilities, especially in this funding moment. We have to remember that ICE is not a long-standing American institution. It was created in two thousand and two, recently, as part of the Homeland Security Act following nine [00:35:00] eleven. Miata Tan : That was Rajiv Narayan with ASATA Power speaking at a recent congressional briefing in Washington, DC. The briefing was part of a larger national convening organized by the South Asian Coalition, bringing together progressive South Asian groups from across the country. Now let's return to Deepa Iyer, who leads projects on solidarity and social movements at Building Movement Project here's Deepa reflecting on her takeaways from the congressional briefing Deepa Iyer: I think that there were so many pieces in that briefing that maybe people didn't know about that organizations are struggling with, and part of it is that, um, our communities, and Sabihah said this earlier, are not a monolith, right? And there are so many different ways in which we are experiencing what is happening right now in the United States, the fractures and the fissures that we're seeing. Rajiv spoke so well about the community needs and issues. One thing I'll lift up is actually the impact on nonprofit [00:36:00] organizations. Several of the groups that were, uh, speaking at the briefing noted how the attacks on nonprofits that are specifically working on issues like immigration in terms of losing federal funding and grants, being forced to certify that they are not addressing issues work that deal with undocumented immigrants, as well as the ways in which, um, nonprofit organizations are being, in some ways, seen as doing risky and un-American work. there is the, the exploitation of domestic terrorism as a frame that is being used right now to target certain nonprofit organizations. This is something that I think is not necessarily known to many people in terms of the ways in which national security, immigration issues are also affecting the nonprofit sector as a whole. And where I work at the Building Movement Project, we really look at the nonprofit sector and the health of the nonprofit sector, and we're [00:37:00] seeing that these types of external threats, the spotlight on organizations that are on the front lines, including South Asian groups, um, Muslim groups, Palestinian groups, that are working with, um, immigrant communities, queer and trans community members that are providing- Vital language access, service provision, community safety are really under threat right now, and this includes many of the organizations that were present at the, coalition's convening. So that's something that I also wanna lift up, that in addition to our communities who are facing the impact of the current moment in really acute ways, our nonprofit sector and our organizations are also dealing with a range of constraints and threats and difficulties. So that is one thing that came up over and over again. Miata Tan : That was Deepa Iyer with the Building Movement Project, highlighting the pressures facing the nonprofit sector right now, [00:38:00] especially as it relates to South Asian organizers, advocates, and communities. Let's return to Farah Mahesri with ASATA Pawa.  Farah Mahersi: One of the other things that I am very proud of for this congressional briefing that we did was that it was us telling our own stories and us presenting our own policy recommendations. There was no need to have, like, an expert come in and talk on behalf of our communities or try to represent our communities. We were the experts in the room, and we were really recognized and seen as that. As Rajiv mentioned, you know, there, the room was packed with Hill staffers and congressional staffers who were taking diligent notes as we spoke our truths Miata Tan : That was Farah Mahesri with ASATA Pawa reflecting on the recent congressional briefing she helped to organize, one that brought greater visibility to the experiences of South Asian immigrants. You'll hear more on how South Asian activists, organizers, and community groups [00:39:00] are mobilizing after this. Stay with us ​ Miata Tan : [00:40:00] [00:41:00] [00:42:00] That was Lion on the Hunt by Thao and the Get Down Stay Down. You are tuned into APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, a weekly radio show uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. I'm your host, Miata Tan. Tonight, we're talking about South Asian organizing in the United States and how community leaders are responding to immigration challenges, political representation, and the shifting landscape of civil rights back in March, organizers and advocates from across the country gathered in Washington, DC for a national convening focused on the challenges and possibilities facing South Asian communities today. Here's Rajiv Narayan with the Alliance of [00:43:00] South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA, reflecting on the importance of honoring both the diversity of the South Asian diaspora and the shared struggle that connects these communities Rajiv Narayan: Something I appreciate about, your work, Miata, at APEX Express, is to highlight both that diversity of the South Asian diaspora and the many struggles and experiences that unite our political experiences and our commitment to social justice. It, it used to be, and in, in some places it still is the case, that folks will use an over-broad group to represent all of the South Asian diaspora. For example, talking about all Brown people as Indian or Desi or to, to collapse all the differences in our community. And part of the power of the congressional briefing is that we are able to show that what it means to be South Asian is at once an incredibly diverse expression and at the same time a collective expression of solidarity. We can do two of these things at the same time. We can recognize our differences and fight for each other. One of my [00:44:00] favorite takeaways that I, I heard from Deepa at the briefing is that there are some staffers that came up to her and said, “I've never heard my story, my experience, my political struggles represented in a panel in this building in front of other congressional staffers.” And that's something that we can do, and we should do more of. There are so many ways in which we can tell the stories and highlight the campaigns of folks from different parts of the South Asian diaspora who are all fighting for a better life for all of us. Miata Tan : That was Rajiv Narayan with ASATA, in the recent congressional briefing that Rajiv helped to organize through the South Asian Coalition, organizers also pointed toward the future of South Asian organizing in the United States and the role of a new generation shaping it. back to Deepa Iyer with Building Movement Project. Here, Deepa Iyer: Some of the young folks that are entering or working at nonprofits now, supporting South Asian nonprofits don't have a living memory of 9/11 and the global war on terror, [00:45:00] and they have been politicized in different ways, right, over the last eight years, for example, the pandemic global wars, et cetera. And so there are a couple of ways in which I've been thinking about how we can support South Asian young people. so for example, how can we share historical analysis and political analysis so that young people understand that they are part of a trajectory of South Asian activism that actually started well before 9/11, before the 1960s, right, and that continues to today, so they don't feel fragmented. So that's something I've been sitting with a lot. Another is around pathways into public service and community service and into the nonprofit sector. So how could we support young people in terms of building their skills, in having pathways open to them into our nonprofit organizations? And then finally, how do we support them, um, so that they, can do this work for the long run? You know, we all struggle with burnout, we all [00:46:00] struggle with sustainability. what are some lessons learned that we can pass on? What are some best practices? that's something that's been sitting with me quite a bit since the gathering that we had, and I hope that the coalition will really think about, supporting young people's leadership and finding different avenues and pathways to do that. Miata Tan : That was Deepa Iyer reflecting on how movements can better support the next generation of South Asian organizers. Within the South Asian coalition, that work also means building long-term infrastructure for better collaboration. Now back to Sabiha Basrai with ASATA. Sabiha Basrai: I'm also really appreciating that the South Asian Coalition is this model for creating a container for many, many organizations to unite as a group while maintaining regional focus and individual issue priorities. I also wanna name that the place where I first learned how to do national coalition work was as a member of the National South Asian Coalition that ASATA had been part of. [00:47:00] It was facilitated by a group called SALT which played such a critical role in the post 9/11 era and continued to then work on DACA, creating resources for undocumented South Asians, along with other issues facing our diverse diasporas. And SALT closed a few years ago. It was a decision that I don't understand and was- has really left me with a lot of sadness and confusion. but I al- I know that sometimes institutions do end, but that the work does not end and the relationships do not end. And the South Asian Coalition is this emergent space that, um, is not led by any one organization. it is a space that is being invested in collectively, and we're really moving at the speed of trust so that we can be really laying that strong foundation that supports the work ahead. I'm really sitting with the ways in which sometimes this labor of Building the container, creating the container, [00:48:00] investing in the network. It's sometimes invisible labor, but it is the most critical because without it we can have moments of mass mobilization, but then that wasn't actually building any power over the long term. And I'm really looking forward to all of the very good work ahead, because I trust the relationships and the containers that we're building. Miata Tan : That was Sabiha reflecting on the collaborative infrastructure that the South Asian Coalition is helping to build. Now let's return to Deepa Iyer. I asked Deepa what campaigns are on the horizon for the coalition, especially as this year marks 25 years since 9/11. Deepa Iyer: As Sabiha mentioned, the coalition is a space for invested leadership, and so there are lots of different campaigns that groups within the coalition are eyeing and taking on. One of them Rajiv mentioned already is the fight around birthright citizenship. And so there are groups like SACHCO and others that showed up with a South Asian [00:49:00] delegation at the Supreme Court on April 1st when that case was being heard, and it was really great to see so many South Asians out there in a delegation along with other communities, to raise their voices on this really vital, pivotal issue. And so that is a campaign that some of the groups within the coalition are going to continue to be lifting up as we get the results of that case and moving forward. Another one that you mentioned, is around the 25th anniversary of 9/11, and there are groups that are considering, along with others in other movement spaces what does narrative strategy look like as we go into this time period? How do we think about the fact that we're marking the 25th anniversary in the same year that we're marking the 250th anniversary of the United States, right? how do we use 9/11 and its anniversary as a lens through which we understand empire, through which we understand the ways in which domestic [00:50:00] policies are being recirculated against other communities? And also this piece around awareness and education. this is an opportunity to share some of the personal experiences that many of us have around that moment in time, but also the ways in which our communities have built up themselves as well as the solidarity with other communities. So I think there are lots of ways in which organizations are thinking about that anniversary and how they can, utilize that moment, to draw greater attention to our community's experiences. Miata Tan : Rajiv, Farah, would you like to add anything about upcoming campaigns and how you're thinking about the South Asian political power movement moving forwards?  Rajiv Narayan: Yeah, I'm happy to talk about one sort of continuing campaign, which is that, like I mentioned, we put together this policy brief on undocumented South Asians, and we had this great opportunity to circulate and talk about it on Capitol Hill in DC. But it's also important for us to bring that story home. And so part of [00:51:00] what we'll be doing, um, for the remainder of, of this year is identifying opportunities to do town halls both, with community members and potentially with elected officials to help educate, do political education about the nature of undocumented peoples in the South Asian community. A large part of what we did in that policy brief is to collate all these numbers to tell you, how many folks might be undocumented, what is the proportion of undocumented people in the South Asian community. But an important, equally important contribution of that report is the nature of undocumented experiences. Why do people become undocumented? What are the factors that put them in that position, and what does it mean for a person to become undocumented? How can we support them, not just in different policy prescriptions, but also the ways that we talk about undocumented people and the South Asian community as a whole? So that'll, that'll be, um, a focus that we have, uh, and a contribution that we hope to make both in the, the Bay Area and beyond.  Farah Mahersi: I'll add to that, that it is election year. It is [00:52:00] a… I feel like we say every election is a critical election, and I do believe that that is very true this year. And so ASATA Power, as a political organization, will be making endorsements and talking through not just that it is important to vote, but it is really important and critical for us in this moment to vote for progressive candidates who are part of our, what is often called like a build coalition, who are here to help us build this world that we are dreaming of, who are aligned on policy positions. The other thing that we are working on locally and nationally is around the war budget. So as a group that has been so directly impacted by the global war on terror 4.5 million Muslims around the world who have been killed by US war-making in that global war on terror, and just watching kind of what the United States foreign policy in particular over the last couple of years has been, we have a particular point of view and a particular interest on tracking and watching things like the [00:53:00] largest, request for a defense budget in US history. How are those dollars being spent, And how those dollars that are being spent abroad to do war-making are also having a boomerang effect and coming back to impact our communities at home. So the same technologies that were developed and used in war-making through the global war on terror that impacted, uh, so many of our communities around the world for 25 years, a lot of that is the same technology that ICE is now using to go after undocumented South Asians in the United States, right? And so that's another way in which we really see our struggles are interconnected, and that we are wanting to dismantle als- a lot of these systems of harm, and also, again, at that intersection between both hate violence and state oppression that's happening. Miata Tan : That was Farah Mahestri with ASATA and ASATA Power. As she shared, ASATA Power is focused on the midterm elections and how war spending and post 9/11 policies continue to affect South Asian communities today. [00:54:00] To close out, we return to another ASATA organizer, Sabiha Basrai. Sabiha Basrai: So I wanted to bring the conversation back locally to the Bay Area again, and just thinking about, the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, which is, part of a network of AAPI and Asian organizing in the Bay Area as a space where South Asians progressive South Asians can actually build community, sharpen our political analysis, embrace our responsibilities here in the Bay Area in this political moment. And just also, lifting up that ASATA currently is working on things like the Oakland Arms Embargo or local community defense against ICE , environmental justice projects, and also looking for more ways to fight supremacist ideologies of Hindutva but in collaboration with anti-Zionist Jewish community activists. these are opportunities that we have here in the Bay Area. And also thinking about ways that we participate in mobilizations. Like, we show up for Reclaim MLK Day, [00:55:00] International Working Women's Day, May Day, the Trans March every year because we understand our responsibility to show up and to show up consistently. And so when I think about the South Asian Coalition and this moment of, okay, we've been trying to- we've built- been building towards this convening and this congressional briefing, and now we're on the other side of this moment, and we are kind of reflecting and coming back together around how we maintain this energy. Also wanted to highlight,  Some of the amazing work that many of our coalition members are, are already doing. One is Savaira, so Savaira United Against Supremacy is actually a coalition of work as well, they focused, their energy on addressing Hindu nationalism and and Hindutva ideology and the, and the many ways in which, the supremacist ideology is kind of insidiously part of institutions, policy even cultural work, uh, within our diaspora. they're so committed to both, like, [00:56:00] resisting the tides of hatred but also combating all forms of supremacist politics and the intersections between them. so their, their work has been a big part of my political education, and I'm really glad that they're part of this coalition. Every member of the coalition is bringing analysis and experience that cross-pollinates to the rest of us. So I'm looking forward to just more of that   also considering what ASATA's role is and how ASATA working in the Bay Area alongside so many other amazing organizing projects here can be strengthening those relationships nationally. Miata Tan : That was Sabiha Basrai with the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA.  This is APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, a weekly radio show uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. APEX Express airs every Thursday evening at 7:00 PM. And with that, we're at the end of our time here [00:57:00] tonight. We really appreciate you for tuning in to listen, and a huge thank you to our wonderful guests. For a transcript of tonight's episode, please visit our website. That's kpfa.org/program/apex-express  We've also added links on the episode page for tonight's show so you can learn more about the South Asian Coalition, ASATA, and all of the organizations we've talked about tonight, along with their upcoming campaigns as well. APEX Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by me, Miata Tan. Get some rest y'all. The post APEX Express – 5.28.26 – Building South Asian Power appeared first on KPFA.

What did Guru Nanak really think about Hindus and Muslims? In this episode we go straight to Gurbani and let the Guru speak for himself. Contrary to what Hindus, Muslims and even some Sikhs claim, Guru Nanak did not respect or validate either religion. He took nothing from them. In his own words he described Hindus as cowards and traitors who abandoned truth for social acceptance, and Muslims as tyrants who used religion to justify oppression. This is not interpretation. This is Gurbani. The Sikh Renaissance cuts through centuries of revisionism and interfaith mythology to deliver Sikhi's unfiltered truth directly from the source.

Hindus claim their ancestors raised their elder sons as Sikhs out of genuine devotion to the Khalsa. Puneet Sahani and others repeat this claim endlessly in both English and Punjabi. This episode proves it is a lie, documented, evidenced and irrefutable.The historical record tells a completely different story. Bhai Sukha Singh Shahid Mari Kambo converted of his own free will and his own family drugged him, cut his sacred Kes and killed his infant daughter. Master Tara Singh converted and his father threw him out of the house. Pandit Har Kishan converted and his orthodox Hindu father fainted in Maharajah Ranjit Singh's court cursing him for destroying Sanataan. Professor Sahib Singh converted and the family Pandit grabbed his belongings declaring him polluted. Swami Ram Tirath studied the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, became Sikh and his family disowned him immediately.Gurdino was never a Hindu practice. Giani Gian Singh's Shamsher Khalsa documents how Sehajdhari Khatris and Jatts raised their elder sons as Khalsas as a deliberate generational investment in Sikhi. The Saakhi of Guru Amardas Mahlla 3rd and Guru Arjan explicitly differentiate Sikh identity from Hindu identity centuries before the Khalsa was created. The Sehajdharis were never Hindus. Gurdino was never a Hindu gift.Delivered in Punjabi for the Punjabi speaking Sikh community globally.

Hop aboard the magical Culture Train for a brand new adventure, then switch tracks and climb into a real-life 18-wheeler as we hit the highway with our new friend, Mr. Avie

It's Monday, May 4th, A.D. 2026. This is The Worldview in 5 Minutes heard on 140 radio stations and at www.TheWorldview.com.  I'm Adam McManus. (Adam@TheWorldview.com) By Adam McManus Christians in Afghanistan have to remain invisible to survive Being known as a Christian in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan brings lethal danger. In this country of 44 million people, Muslims comprise more than 99.7% of the population, reports International Christian Concern. Not long after the Taliban retook control of Afghanistan in August 2021, they declared that no Christians were remaining in the country. Though the Taliban claimed no Christians remained, Christians still exist—surviving only by remaining invisible. The Taliban reportedly searched door to door and through smartphones, hunting for any signs of Christian conversion. This reality highlights the core argument: Afghan Christians must stay hidden to survive. The situation also became highly precarious for other religious minorities, including Sikhs, Hindus, and the country's last Jewish resident. According to Open Doors, Afghanistan is the 11th most dangerous country for Christians worldwide. In John 15:19, Jesus said to His disciples, “If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.” Trump withdraws 5,000 troops from Germany The United States will withdraw 5,000 troops from Germany in the next six to 12 months, the Pentagon said Friday, fulfilling President Donald Trump's threat as he clashes with the German leader over the U.S. war with Iran, reports the Associated Press. Trump had threatened to withdraw some troops from the NATO ally earlier this week after German Chancellor Friedrich Merz said the U.S. was being “humiliated” by the Iranian leadership and criticized Washington's lack of strategy in the war. Germany hosts several U.S. military facilities, including the headquarters of its European and Africa commands, Ramstein Air Base and a medical center in Landstuhl, where casualties from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were treated. U.S. nuclear missiles are also stationed in the country. The number of troops leaving Germany would be 14% of the 36,000 American service members stationed there. News of the troop withdrawal drew swift pushback from Democrats in Congress as well as a hawkish Washington think tank. They said the move will benefit Russian President Vladimir Putin and weaken U.S. security interests. Bradley Bowman, a scholar at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, said the U.S. military's presence in Germany and elsewhere in Europe “not only strengthens deterrence against additional Kremlin aggression but also facilitates the projection of American military power into the Mediterranean, the Middle East, and Africa.” Federal appeals court blocks mail-order abortion pills Ready for some great pro-life news? On May 1st, a federal court issued a ruling that temporarily blocked the ability to send the Abortion Kill Pill by mail. Of American mothers who abort, 63% choose to use abortion drugs. If ultimately upheld, this decision could save tens of thousands of babies from abortions, reports LifeNews.com. A panel of the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans temporarily blocked a Biden administration rule allowing the abortion drug, mifepristone, to be dispensed through the mail. Marjorie Dannenfelser, the president of Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America, called the ruling “a huge victory for victims and survivors of Biden's reckless mail-order abortion drug regime. We are so grateful for the tenacity of [Louisiana] Attorney General Liz Murrill, abortion drug coercion survivor Rosalie Markezich, and all our allies demanding action. “Women and children suffer and state sovereignty is violated every day the Food and Drug Administration allows abortion drugs to flood the mail – harms that are no mere accident, but predictable outcomes of the FDA's unscientific removal of safeguards like in-person doctor visits.” Republican State candidate found dead An investigation is underway into the death of a Republican state Senate candidate in Oklahoma who was found dead in his pickup truck on April 30th in a wildlife refuge, reports The Western Journal. Barry Christian, a candidate for state Senate District 38, had disappeared on April 28th, according to KOCO-TV. The Beckham County Sheriff's Office said a hunter reported to authorities that he had seen the wreck of a pickup truck that appeared to have crashed off a high ridge. 149th anniversary of God's locust miracle in Minnesota And finally, from 1873 to 1877, grasshoppers, also known as locusts, destroyed hundreds of thousands of acres of crops in Minnesota, leaving eggs in the soil for the next season. On April 26, 1877, Minnesota Republican Governor John Pillsbury declared a statewide day of prayer and fasting to combat a devastating four-year Rocky Mountain locust plague, which was threatening widespread starvation.  Schools and businesses closed, with many residents taking the day seriously, asking God for deliverance. Shortly after the day of prayer, an unseasonable cold snap and snow arrived, freezing and killing millions of hatching larvae grasshopper nymphs. It was divine intervention. God answered their prayers. Prayer At The Heart invites 1 million Christians to pray for an unbeliever Speaking of the power of prayer, Prayer At The Heart, a group founded in 2021, to pray for America, launched 50 days of prayer, inviting one million Christians to pray for the salvations of a friend or loved one through May 24th. Franklin Graham said, “The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association desires to express its appreciation and support for the efforts of Prayer At The Heart to see one million people come to Christ by Pentecost Sunday, 2026. This could be the beginning of the spiritual awakening our nation so desperately needs, a renewal found only in Jesus Christ.” Get access to a free 68-page, 50-day prayer guide through a special link in our transcript today at www.TheWorldview.com.  Plus, check out their  online ‘Prayer Wall' with  scheduled prayer in every state for an hour each week. In Jeremiah 29:12-13, God said, “Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will hear you. You will seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with all your heart.” Close And that's The Worldview on this Monday, May 4th, in the year of our Lord 2026. Follow us on X or subscribe for free by Spotify, Amazon Music, or by iTunes or email to our unique Christian newscast at www.TheWorldview.com.  Plus, you can get the Generations app through Google Play or The App Store. I'm Adam McManus (Adam@TheWorldview.com). Seize the day for Jesus Christ.

Sirdar Kapur Singh, one of the leading Sikh thinkers of the twentieth century, developed one of the clearest arguments for a Sikh homeland within postcolonial India. Across speeches, interviews, and essays, he argued that such a homeland was inalienable from the Sikhs, historically inevitable, and politically necessary. His theory emerged from the violence and dislocations of the 1947 Partition and its long aftermath and was rooted in a deep understanding of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib's vision of the Khalsa.Read more: https://sikhri.org/articles/sirdar-kapur-singhs-idea-of-the-sikh-homelandFeaturing: Damanpreet Singh (https://sikhri.org/people/damanpreet-singh)Santbir Singh (https://sikhri.org/people/santbir-singh)

Most people think Chandi Di Var is simply a celebration of divine vengeance, a straightforward battle between good and evil. But what if we have been reading it wrong?In this episode, we explore the deeper meaning of Chandi Di Var, Chandi Charitar I, and Chandi Charitar II, asking why the moral universe in these compositions is far less clean or predictable than many assume. As discussed in the conversation, gods behave badly and demons speak uncomfortable truths, forcing us to rethink easy assumptions about morality, myth, and spiritual struggle.This is a discussion about Sikh theology, the Dasam Granth, myth, symbolism, and moral philosophy. It looks at how these compositions work, what they are trying to do, and why they continue to provoke debate.If you are interested in Sikh theology, Dasam Granth interpretation, Chandi Di Var analysis, or deeper conversations on myth, symbolism, and the moral complexity of Sikh scripture, this episode is for you.Timestamps00:00 — What do people commonly get wrong about this story and what it is actually trying to achieve?12:44 — Why are there three separate compositions, Chandi Di Var, Chandi Charitar I, and Chandi Charitar II, and how do they differ or overlap?21:21 — You state explicitly in the text that you are not promoting any agenda. Why make that declaration?29:32 — What role do moral inversion and the collapse of principles play in shaping the story?36:08 — How should we read this as an internal journey as much as a cosmic one, not just an external myth but something personal?41:04 — Time in this story is cyclical. There is no happily ever after. What does it mean to accept that?44:54 — What is the biggest assumption you had to rethink while working on this project?57:36 — If Chandi is not about defeating an external enemy but an internal ego that returns every day, what does the text ultimately ask the reader to do?59:49 — Where can people get a copy?1:01:28 — There was confusion about Chandi among Sikhs even in the precolonial period. What was that about?1:08:16 — Tell us about your involvement in the art and creative direction.1:17:51 — Do you treat images like hieroglyphics, as another form of language?1:21:41 — What was the process behind creating the original artwork that accompanies the translation?1:26:04 — What do you hope people take away from this work?

Today we look at the life story of Guru Gobind Singh. We explore why his family was murdered, the formation of the Khalsa Brotherhood, his famous battles, and his legacy post-assassination. Welcome to Religion Camp!

Discover the inspiring life of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji of Nanaksar Kaleran, a revered Sikh saint born on 26th March 1913 in Jhoraran, Ludhiana. Serving and carrying forward the legacy of Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji with deep devotion, Baba Ji's life emphasises absolute reverence for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the living Guru. Through his travels across India, he spread the message of Gurbani, encouraged countless Sikhs to take Amrit. Baba Ji's life is a reflection of humility, seva, and unwavering faith in their Satguru, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, and complete surrender to their spiritual master, Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji.——————————————————

300 years ago, one man's refusal to bow down sparked a revolution that saved the Sikh identity. In this hard-hitting episode of BOSTV, we dive deep into the life and Shaheedi (martyrdom) of Baba Tara Singh Ji Vaan. By 1726, after the Shaheedi of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur (1716), many Sikhs had begun to settle into "normal" life, attempting to integrate into a society that oppressed them... until Baba Tara Singh Ji stood up. We explore the incredible accounts from Bhai Rattan Singh Bhangoo's Prachin Panth Prakash, detailing how a simple dispute over grazing land turned into a legendary stand against the Mughal Empire. This wasn't just a battle; it was the birth of the Sikh Renaissance and the catalyst for the first-ever Sarbat Khalsa. Join us as we uncover the story of the 22 Singhs who chose death over dishonor and reminded the Panth that a Sikh's first loyalty is to the Guru, not to a tyrant's peace.——————————————————

Carney travels to India and strikes a landmark deal with Modi, but what about all those allegations of foreign interference by Indian agents in Canada? A senior official in Carney's government says India is no longer targeting Canadians, but CSIS and other Liberal MPs insist it's still ongoing. Plus, a new Globe and Mail investigation offers a detailed portrait of the killing of Hardeep Singh Nijjar.Correction:In a previous version of this episode, the driver of the Humboldt Broncos bus, Jaskirat Singh Sidhu, was referred to as a temporary foreign worker. He was a permanent resident at the time of the accident.Host: Jesse Brown Credits: James Nicholson (Producer), Kallan Lyons (Associate Producer and Fact Checking), Caleb Thompson (Mixing and Mastering), Jesse Brown (Editor)Guest: Rupa Subramanya Further reading: Carney and India's Modi strike new energy partnership - National | Globalnews.caEvidence links Indian officials at Vancouver consulate to killing of Sikh activist Hardeep Singh Nijjar - The Globe and MailIndian government no longer targeting Canadians, senior official says on eve of PM's visit - National | Globalnews.caIndian foreign interference ‘continuing,' say Liberal MPs | Globalnews.ca Foreign Interference Indictment - US District Court [PDF]‘Our community can't afford more silence': Sikhs targeted by Indian-backed criminal groups demand action | The PointerBrookfield 'strategic partner' wins big in India deal - Investigative Journalism FoundationJohn Manley: Man responsible for Humboldt Broncos crash paid his debt to society and should not be deported - National PostTickets for Travis Dhanraj / Jesse Brown Sponsors: Fizz: Visit fizz.ca and activate a first plan using the referral code CAN25 to get 25$ off and 10GB of free data.Douglas: Douglas is giving our listeners a FREE Sleep Bundle with each mattress purchase. Get the sheets, pillows, mattress and pillow protectors FREE with your Douglas purchase today. Visit douglas.ca/canadaland to claim this offer.Squarespace: Check out Squarespace.com/canadaland for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch use code canadaland to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.If you value this podcast, Support us! Sign up now and get 3 months of Canadaland premium and ad-free for 70% off. You'll get premium access to all our shows ad free, including early releases and bonus content. You'll also get our exclusive newsletter, discounts on merch at our store, tickets to our live and virtual events, and more than anything, you'll be a part of the solution to Canada's journalism crisis, you'll be keeping our work free and accessible to everybody. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.