Podcast appearances and mentions of Shane Claiborne

This edition of the Means of Grace features a conversation with Rev. Joel Simpson, pastor of First UMC in Taylorsville, NC.  Joel has a heart for justice and the poor and marginalized. In May 2025, Joel, Shane Claiborne, and three other faith activists were arrested while protesting the GOP budget bill.    In April 2022, Joel, along with Shane Claiborne, led participants through the stations of the cross.  The stations included images that portrayed the execution of Jesus as painted by men awaiting their own execution of Tennessee's death row.  We talk about how that came about and how Joel and the church engage in justice ministries.    Show notes: Joel Simpson email to connect with him: jsimpson@wnccumc.net Holy Week exhibit: Are We Continuing to Execute Jesus? WNC United Methodists Grapple with the Death Penalty During Holy Week (wnccumc.org)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Poor People's Campaign: Poor People's Campaign – A National Call for Moral Revival (poorpeoplescampaign.org) Shane Claiborne : shane claiborne 957 mobile café - Home (957mobilecafe.org) Equal Justice Initiative Home (eji.org) advocates for criminal justice reform and racial justice. General Board of Church and Society GBCS Home • GBCS (umcjustice.org) Dontae Sharpe documentary: BBC News Channel - Justice Delayed

Stay tuned at the end of the episode for a special song by Common Hymnal - "Truth Waivers Not" In this episode, Shane Claiborne talks with Reverend William H. Lamar IV about the state of the American empire and the deep principalities and powers at play. They delve into the targeted racial terror against Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church by the Proud Boys and the subsequent legal battle that resulted in the church owning the Proud Boys trademark. Reverend Lamar shares the historical context of racial violence, the role of ancestors and courage in combating systemic injustice, and the ongoing struggle against modern-day fascism and authoritarianism. They also discuss the importance of maintaining joy and fighting for a better world. Tune in for an insightful conversation on faith, resilience, and the relentless pursuit of justice. Learn more: https://faithandleadership.com/authors/william-h-lamar-iv  Music: https:/https://commonhymnal.com/ Help sustain the work of RLC: www.redletterchristians.org/donate/ To check out what RLC is up to, please visit us www.redletterchristians.org  Follow us on Twitter: @RedLetterXians Instagram: @RedLetterXians Follow Shane on Instagram: @shane.claiborne Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne

Stay tuned to the end of the episode for a special song "Good Good trouble" by Joel David Weir. In this episode, Shane Claiborne hosts Tim Whitaker, founder of The New Evangelicals, for an engaging discussion on the intersection of faith, activism, and Christian nationalism. They delve into the challenges facing modern Christianity, the importance of not just promising heaven but addressing present-day 'hells,' and the need for vibrant faith that fuels social justice. The conversation covers Tim's experiences attending Turning Point USA's America Fest, the evolving landscape of The New Evangelicals, and practical steps for believers to engage in meaningful activism. Additionally, they share insights on building digital and physical communities that reflect the teachings of Jesus. Learn more: https://www.thenewevangelicals.com/  Music: https://joeldavidweir.com/  Help sustain the work of RLC: www.redletterchristians.org/donate/ To check out what RLC is up to, please visit us www.redletterchristians.org  Follow us on Twitter: @RedLetterXians Instagram: @RedLetterXians Follow Shane on Instagram: @shane.claiborne Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne

Closing Song: "All Fire" by Carolyn Arends - In this episode, Shane Claiborne engages in an enlightening conversation with accomplished singer-songwriter Carolyn Arends. They discuss her musical journey, the resonant impact of her songs, and her deep-rooted faith. The episode also delves into Carolyn's involvement with Renovaré, an organization focused on spiritual renewal, and her personal connections with influential musician Rich Mullins. Through stories and reflections, they explore the intersection of music, faith, and social justice, offering insights into maintaining integrity and transparency in Christian ministry. Find out more about Carolyn Arends here: https://www.carolynarends.com/  Learn more about Renovare - https://renovare.org/ Help sustain the work of RLC: www.redletterchristians.org/donate/ To check out what RLC is up to, please visit us www.redletterchristians.org  Follow us on Twitter: @RedLetterXians Instagram: @RedLetterXians Follow Shane on Instagram: @shane.claiborne Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne

Elizabeth Oldfield is the host of the sacred (  @thesacredpodcast  ), an author, and . Paul Vanderklay is the host of  @PaulVanderKlay  ) and the head pastor of living stones. We mention John Vervaeke (  @johnvervaeke  ), Jonathan Pageau (  @JonathanPageau  ) , Rod Dreher, Kale Zelden (  @thekalezelden  ) , Chris Pratt, Mark Walhberg, Jenny Odell, Renes Decartes, Bob Dylan, Woodie Guthrie, Francis Collins, Jordan Peterson, Pete Seeger, Taylor Swift, Love is Blind, Shane Claiborne, Emile Durkheim, Jonathan Haidt, Phlebas, Chad (  @thefridaymorningnameless7623  ), Brene Brown, Justin Brierly, and more. Midwestuary Conference - https://www.midwestuary.com/

It's become popular to compare our current political moment with the rise of the Nazi Party in Germany in the 1930s, but what if the better comparison is Germany in the 1920s? A new article by Paul Miller argues that to avoid the rise of authoritarianism, Christian in the United States should do the hard work now of creating an alternative political narrative rather than the easy work of demonizing one side or the other as “Nazis.” Skye talks to Lee Camp, the creator and host of “No Small Endeavor,” about creating spaces for diverse people to have important conversations and why fear is the barrier to practicing godly hospitality. Also this week—evangelicals aren't entirely opposed to science. But, just like everyone else, they reject the science that contradicts their politics.   Holy Post Plus: An Evening with the Holy Post: Kaitlyn Schiess and Shane Claiborne https://www.patreon.com/posts/124791463/ Ad-free Version of this episode: https://www.patreon.com/posts/125154482/     0:00 - Show Starts   3:56 - Theme Song   4:15 - Sponsor - Rocket Money - Find and cancel your old subscriptions with Rocket Money at https://www.rocketmoney.com/HOLYPOST   5:25 - Sponsor - Glorify - Sign up for the #1 Christian Daily Devotional App to help you stay focused on God. Go to https://glorify-app.com/en/HOLYPOST to download the app today!   7:20 - Politics and Believing Science   21:43 - America's Weimar Moment   49:15 -  The Leader's Way Podcast - Want to enrich your ministry to bring hope to the world? Listen to Christian thinkers and leaders at https://berkeleydivinity.yale.edu/podcast/holypost   50:05 - Sponsor - Bushnell University - Equip yourself to be transformative in your community! Go to https://www.bushnell.edu   50:55- Interview   57:40 - When Did No Small Endeavor Become so Broad?   1:03:02 - Hospitality vs Fear   1:15:25 - Hospitality Across the Spectrum   1:23:13 - End Credits   Links from News Segment: Are Evangelical Clergy Outliers on Science? Yes and No https://religionnews.com/2025/03/20/are-evangelical-clergy-outliers-on-science-yes-and-no/?utm_medium=social   A Confessing Church for America's Weimar Moment: https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/dispatch-faith/christians-confessing-church-america2/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=A%20Confessing%20Church%20for%20America%20s%20Weimar%20Moment&utm_campaign=A%20Confessing%20Church%20for%20America%20s%20Weimar%20Moment Other Resources: No Small Endeavor Tour: https://www.nosmallendeavor.com/events   Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/   Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus   Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost   Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop   The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying  purchases.  

Marianne Williamson, Tim Shriver, Cynthia Bourgeault, Matthew Fox, Cyprian Consiglio, Andrew Harvey, Sherri Mitchell, Shane Claiborne; Consciousness Compassion Mystical Unitive Alternative religion World Peace Alternative Christianity Aspen Wisdom Love Peace Education Centering PrayerSupport the show

Life. Death. Empathy. Revolution. 

Writer and activist Shane Claiborne calls out the hypocrisy within fundamentalist Evangelical Christianity in America, advocating for a return to the radical compassion of Jesus.Shane challenges what it means to truly be "pro-life," challenges its entanglement with Christian nationalism, and its allegiance to Donald Trump. As he unpacks these priorities, he wrestles with what to keep, what to challenge, and what bones to "spit out” along the way.

Join us for a heartfelt conversation as Shane Claiborne and Julio Hernandez tackle immigration, radical hospitality, and the power of community action. Discover how faith and love can shape our response to pressing global issues. Help sustain the work of RLC: www.redletterchristians.org/donate/ To check out what RLC is up to, please visit us www.redletterchristians.org  Follow us on Twitter: @RedLetterXians Instagram: @RedLetterXians Follow Shane on Instagram: @shane.claiborne Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne

In this episode, we chat with Lisa Sharon Harper and Shane Claiborne how anti-DEI legislation is an all-out assault on human rights.If you want to call in to the Bonus Show, leave a voicemail at (530) 332-8020. We would love to get to your calls!LINKSQuoirCast on PatreonQuoirCast on PatheosPANELISTSLisa Sharon HarperShane Claiborne

Shane Claiborne introduces his guest, Philip Farah, from the Palestinian Christian Alliance for Peace. They discuss issues related to the death penalty, gun violence, and the importance of building a better world. Farah shares his personal story of being a Palestinian Christian born in Jerusalem. They also explore the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, the role of Christianity in advocating for peace and justice, and how Western Christian communities can better support Palestinian Christians. The conversation highlights the need for deeper theological reflection and active engagement in social justice. Help sustain the work of RLC: www.redletterchristians.org/donate/ To check out what RLC is up to, please visit us www.redletterchristians.org  Follow us on Twitter: @RedLetterXians Instagram: @RedLetterXians Follow Shane on Instagram: @shane.claiborne Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne

Hosts Lynne Stroy and Joey Svendsen talk with author, screenwriter, and movie producer, T. Martin Bennett about his new nonfiction novel, Wounded Tiger: The Transformational True Story of the Japanese Pilot Who Led the Pearl Harbor Attack. The story highlights the pilot's encounters with an American prisoner and a girl whose different perspectives lead the pilot to life change. Bennett shares about how he came to write this inspiring story and the three talk about the beauty only God can bring from the horrors of war.At the top of the episode, Lynne and Joey react to last week's conversation with Shane Claiborne and Marc Turnage.Be a Patron of the Podcast!On this Episode:T. Martin Bennett: Wounded Tiger Book / Website / Instagram Lynne Stroy, host / InstagramJoey Svendsen, host / InstagramExecutive Producer: Josh SurrattHost/Producer/Editor: Joey SvendsenSound EngineerEditor: Katelyn Vandivertheme song: Joel T. Hamilton MusicWe have a YouTube Channel for videos of all episodes since Jan. 2024.

Many of us have a complicated relationship with prayer, but did you know that Jesus pauses to teach us how to pray during the Sermon on the Mount? Join us today as Zach W. Lambert continues our Sermon on the Mount series talking about prayer! We live-stream every Sunday at 9:30am CT. If you'd like to connect with Restore, go to www.restoreaustin.org/connect. Resources Referenced: https://bibleproject.com/explore/video/lords-prayer/ How to Pray by C.S Lewis Common Prayer by Shane Claiborne and Enuma Okoro Talking with God by Adam Weber Black Liturgies by Cole Arthur Riley

Author, activist, and pacifist Shane Claiborne and Bible scholar and historian Marc Turnage join the podcast with their sharp disagreements concerning the war in Israel. Hosts Lynne Stroy and Joey Svendsen facilitate the conversation, as the two guests agree that the tragedy of war is a result of fallen human nature, but then turn to impassioned discourse over their strong moral differences concerning Israel's current war.At the top of the episode, Lynne, Joey, Jack, and Roy discuss their own opinions of war. With the historic devastation of Nagasaki and Hiroshima (Japan, World War II) as the context, the four discuss the nuances of being a hopeful, peaceful Christian while living in a world where war rages and innocent lives are taken.Be a Patron of the Podcast! On this Episode:Shane Claiborne I Instagram / Website Marc Turnage I Facebook / Website Jack Hoey III, host / Instagram Roy Jacques, host / Instagram Lynne Stroy, host / Instagram Joey Svendsen, host / Instagram Executive Producer: Josh SurrattHost/Producer/Editor: Joey SvendsenSound EngineerEditor: Katelyn Vandivertheme song: Joel T. Hamilton Music We have a YouTube Channel for videos of all episodes since Jan. 2024.

Join Shane Claiborne for this special Christmas edition of the podcast, where we dive deep into the true meaning of the season. Amid the hustle and bustle of shopping, decorating, and gift-giving, Shane challenges us to step back and reflect on the radical love and solidarity of Jesus—born as a homeless baby into a world of violence and suffering. Check out: AdventConspiracy.org  Help sustain the work of RLC: www.redletterchristians.org/donate/ To check out what RLC is up to, please visit us www.redletterchristians.org  Follow us on Twitter: @RedLetterXians Instagram: @RedLetterXians Follow Shane on Instagram: @shane.claiborne Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne Intro song by Common Hymnal: https://commonhymnal.com/

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.ktfpress.comIn this month's bonus episode, we talk all about why and how to have difficult conversations about important political subjects with people who disagree with you. We get into:- What are goals are in these kinds of conversations- Strategies for regulating our emotions and achieving those goals- The power dynamics to keep in mind when having these conversations- And afterward, our segment Which Tab Is Still Open?, diving into a fascinating conversation with Rev. William Barber about what Democrats could gain if they paid attention to poor votersYou can find the video of the portion of this episode that we recorded live at ktfpress.com.Mentioned in the episode- Disarming Leviathan by Caleb Campbell- The Deeply Formed Life by Rich Villodas- Emotionally Healthy Spirituality by Pete Scazzero- When Helping Hurts by Steve Corbett and Brian Fikkert- Difficult Conversations by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Shila Heen- Crucial Conversations by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, and Ron McMillan- John Blake's interview with Rev. William BarberCredits- Follow KTF Press on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads- Follow host Jonathan Walton on Facebook Instagram, and Threads.- Follow host Sy Hoekstra on Mastodon.- Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.- Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.- Editing by Sy Hoekstra- Transcripts by Joyce Ambale and Sy Hoekstra.- Production by Sy Hoekstra and our incredible subscribersTranscriptIntroduction[An acoustic guitar softly plays six notes, the first three ascending and the last three descending – F#, B#, E, D#, B – with a keyboard pad playing the note B in the background. Both fade out as Jonathan Walton says “This is a KTF Press podcast.”]Sy Hoekstra: Hey everyone, it's Sy. Quick note before we start. Stay tuned after this recording of our conversation, which we did on Substack Live because we recorded our segment, Which Tab Is Still Open, separately due to some time constraints we had. Thanks so much for listening, and the episode officially starts now.Jonathan Walton: If your relationship is broken by what you think about trans rights, then I think we need to examine what kind of relationship you had in the first place, because I think our relationships have to be much more than our opinions about the latest political topic of the day.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Jonathan Walton: Welcome to Shake the Dust, seeking… [long pause] Jesus, confronting injustice. I am Jonathan Walton [laughter], and we're live on Substack.Sy Hoekstra: Jonathan starts the live by forgetting our tagline [laughter].Jonathan Walton: It's true. It's true. So welcome to Shake the Dust. My name is Jonathan. We are seeking justice, confronting injustice. See, this is live. Live is hard. Go for it, Sy.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Thank you for being here, Sy.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, sure. I'm Sy Hoekstra, that's Jonathan Walton.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: We're doing this live, if you couldn't tell. This is a live recording of our podcast. We are gonna ease into it, and then we'll be good. Don't worry.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: We're doing this live as a recording, and then we will be releasing the audio and the video later to our paid subscribers. So if you're listening, welcome. Alright, we are gonna be talking today about a subject that comes to us from a listener that came in as a question on our finale episode, but it came in a couple hours too late, and I missed it before we started recording. But it was such an interesting question that we decided to make a whole episode out of it. So thank you to Ashley, our listener, who sent this in. We will be talking about basically, how to regulate yourself and actually strategies you can employ when having difficult conversations with people you disagree with on important subjects, the power dynamics and everything all around it, and literally just how to do it, which is actually kind of something that a lot of people have been asking us.Ashley comes at it from a really good angle that we'll be talking about too. So we'll get to all that in a moment. We will also be talking, as we usually do in our episodes, doing our segment, Which Tab Is Still Open, diving a little bit deeper into one of the recommendations from our newsletter. And this week, we will be talking about a really great interview with William Barber, the Reverend William Barber, and basically how poor people can but often don't affect elections because of the ways that the Republican and Democratic parties approach poor people. So we will get into all that in a second. I will apologize for my voice still sounding like I have a cold. It sounds like I have a cold because I have a cold, and [laughter] I have the eternal fall-winter, father of a two year old in daycare cold [laughs]. So bear with me, and I appreciate your patience. Before we get into all this, Jonathan Walton, go ahead.Jonathan Walton: Well, if you are listening live, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for tuning in, and I just wanna encourage you to become a paid subscriber of our Substack. If you do that, you get access to video and audio of this conversation afterwards, you also get bonus episodes and our entire archive of bonus episodes as well. Plus, when you become a monthly paid subscriber, you also get access to our monthly Zoom chats, and you'll be able to comment on our posts, communicate with us on a regular basis. And so that would be great. Plus, you'll be supporting everything that we can do to help Christians confront injustice and follow Jesus. And so that's particularly in the areas of political discipleship and education, as we try to leave behind the idols of the American church. And for everybody, if you do listen to this, please go to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you might listen, and give us a five-star rating. If you wanna give less than that, you can also but you can keep that to yourself.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Thank you so much for your support and encouragement. We really appreciate it.Sy Hoekstra: Four stars and below, give us those ratings inside your head [laughter]. Also, if you have any questions and you are listening live, feel free to put them in the chat. We can answer those as we go. And alright, Jonathan, let's jump right into it.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: We got this question from Ashley. She comes at it from an interesting angle. I wanted to talk about the things that she doesn't wanna do, and then get into her questions. So she said, when she's talking about people that she disagrees with on important political or religious subjects, there's a couple of things that she did growing up. One of which was the only reason that you're engaging in these conversations as a conservative Evangelical, is to change people into you [laughs]. Is to win people over to your point of view and make them the same as you. That's your goal. Then she said she kind of grew up a little bit, went to college, became what she called it, an ungrounded liberal arts major [laughs] and started getting into what she described as the sort of millennial slash Gen Z cusp age that she is.Just it being cool to shut people down and just defeat them, destroy them in an argument. So she's just like, “I don't wanna be there just to make people into me. I don't wanna be there just to destroy people.” But she said now she finds herself in a position where most of the people around her largely agree with her on important subjects, and she just doesn't spend a lot of time around people who don't. So just kind of wants to know how to get into that, because she thinks it is important. She was saying some political organizers really convinced her that it is important to be doing that. And she just wants to know how you regulate yourself, how you go about it, and all that.What's the Goal When You're Having Difficult Disagreements on Important Subjects?Sy Hoekstra: And although that question was really interesting, and we're gonna jump into the actual strategies, I think Jonathan, the place to start is when you're having these conversations with someone, if you're not trying to cut them off, if you're not trying to turn them into you, and you're not trying to shut them down, what are you trying to do? What's the actual goal of what these conversations are? And for those of you who might be listening live or listening to us for the first time, this is Jonathan's wheelhouse [laughter]. This is right in what Jonathan does all the time. So Jonathan, go ahead, tell us what is the actual goal of these conversations?Jonathan Walton: Yes. So I wanna start off by saying that none of this is easy.Sy Hoekstra: For sure.Jonathan Walton: I'm giving you a cookie cutter, boxed up wonderful version of a cake that you don't… Like all the ingredients are in there, all you need to do is add water. And life is not like that.Sy Hoekstra: Yes.The Goal Should Be Connection, not Cutting off or ColonizingJonathan Walton: But if you're not trying to colonize someone or make them into you, and you're not trying to cut someone off just because they disagree with you, or you're not trying to cancel them, shut them down, hold them accountable in a way that leaves them feeling like a puddle of ignorance in front of you, then what you're actually trying to do is connect with them. And so I think that God made us to be in relationship with other people, and being in relationship with other people means that we're able to sit before them, to see and be seen, without trying to consume or control the other person. It's impossible to connect with someone that you're trying to control. It's impossible to connect with someone, to love someone that you're trying to consume, like to be enmeshed with and turn into yourself.And so I think one of the ways that we, what we're actually trying to do, instead of colonizing someone, instead of consuming someone, instead of controlling someone, is to connect with them. And so the foundational question that we need to ask ourselves when we're in conversations with someone who we disagree with is, “What do we want from the relationship?” So, yeah, we want to connect. And then we ask ourselves the deeper questions, hey, Ashley, [laughter] a deeper question of, “What kind of connection do I want with this person?” So for example, I know a couple. They voted differently in the election.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] Than each other, or than you?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Than each other.Sy Hoekstra: Okay.Jonathan Walton: I don't know if how I voted will even come up, because that wasn't the premise of the conversation.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: But this couple, their actual argument is not about like you voted for Trump and you wanted him not to vote for him. The actual thing is, how do we love each other amidst a disagreement? Because they don't know how to hold the reality that I believe something different from you and we can still remain connected. The only option they have is to consume the other person or calling them out, “You need to think like me.” Or be consumed, “I need to think like you.” Or, “Do we need to get a divorce?” Like, no. It is possible to remain connected to someone while being in disagreement, even vehement disagreement. I think what we actually need to agree on is, how do we wanna be connected? I think that's the foundational question.Connection Versus ConversionSy Hoekstra: Yeah. I like that a lot. It's funny, when we were talking about this, this did not… I don't do emotional health and relationship discipleship and all that kind of thing that Jonathan does all the time. And your answer did not immediately occur to me [laughs]. I was thinking about Ashley's question, and I was like, “Wait a minute, what is the goal? I don't even know.” Anyways, I think the framework of connection is super, super helpful, and I appreciate you laying it out for us. And it's helpful for a couple of reasons. One is, it roots us in actual relationships, meaning your real life circumstances are what's guiding you. Your goals in your relationships is what is guiding you in how you approach the question of how you have these conversations.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And then it's something that is sort of an antidote to that evangelical tendency to try to convert everyone, like you were talking about.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Meaning, it's like, if you have a separate goal, then you can leave those other goals behind. But those other goals, if you don't have a new goal, those goals always stick. How you were raised is not going to change or move or be as prominent in your mind if you're not replacing it with something else.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, yeah.Sy Hoekstra: It's something that you can focus on, that you can actually do. Meaning you can make as much of an effort as you can to connect with someone, and they might not work, but you know that you did everything that you could, as opposed to trying to change someone. If your goal is changing people or defeating people, that never works. It very rarely works. And this is a weird thing that a lot of, I've realized growing up in evangelical churches, you couldn't face this directly, the fact that the overwhelming attempts that you made to evangelize someone didn't work [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Right.Sy Hoekstra: That was just a reality that you had to ignore. The vast majority of the people that you tried, they ignored you and walked on their way. And you couldn't just stop and go like, “Maybe the thing that I'm offering them is actually not all that attractive [laughs]. Maybe the church or the community or whatever, is getting in the way of…” That stuff you couldn't face. You had to believe that you had the best way, and you had to change people, or you had to shut them down. You had to shut down your opponents if you were talking about, atheists or whatever. And that stuff, it leads to constant anxiety, because you don't control the outcome, but you want to.You feel like you have to control the outcome, but you do not control the outcome. And when it comes to connection, again, you don't control the outcome, but the goal is that you attempt, you do everything that's in your power to attempt to reach your goal of connection with this person.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And then it also filters out the people that you don't need to have a connection with [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: You don't have to respond to trolls. You know what I'm saying? You don't have to convert everyone. Because you're not trying to do all those things, it takes a lot of pressure off you. But I'm sorry, you were trying to say something. Go ahead.Jonathan Walton: Well, no, I think just to give some other resources, I'm pulling from Disarming Leviathan by Caleb Campbell. I'm pulling from Deeply Formed Life by Rich Villodas. I'm pulling from Emotionally Healthy Spirituality by Pete Scazzero. I'm pulling from Difficult Conversations. There's like, Crucial Conversations and Difficult Conversations and I get them mixed up.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: And also I'm pulling from When Helping Hurts. Because, oftentimes too, When Helping Hurts, I think it's really good, because we can start out with really good intentions, with trying to do something, quote- unquote, good for someone, when I think in reality what Sy was saying is true. We can only control what we desire, how we communicate that desire, and then pursuit of that desire.There is Vulnerability in Pursuing Connection as a GoalJonathan Walton: And then the other person actually gets to respond to that. And what's difficult about being vulnerable in connecting is that if you're trying to convert someone or control someone or colonize someone, they are rejecting a message or an idea. Or is it whereas if you are trying to connect with someone, you could feel rejected.And I think it's easier to try and persuade someone, or convince someone of an idea, rather than it is to connect with you as a person. I've been rejected by people, not just romantically [laughter].Sy Hoekstra: That too, though.Jonathan Walton: And it hurts. That as well. It's true. Tears.Sy Hoekstra: Sorry [laughter].Jonathan Walton: But one of the things is… No, it's cool. It's alright. Things worked out, praise God. But I think there's a vulnerability in, let's say I'm having a conversation with someone and they say, “Hey, Jonathan, I don't actually believe that police reform should happen. I think it's a few bad apples.” I have a few ways to go in that conversation. I could say, “Hey. Have you seen these statistics from this magazine and these FBI reports?” And go down deep into why Memphis is rejecting federal oversight. I could do that. Or I could say, “Oh, I feel afraid when you say that, because the results of that are, I'm afraid to walk outside my house because there aren't people actively pushing for reforms in the police department that occupies my neighborhood.”And that is vulnerability, because they could then invalidate my fears with their response, or whatever the thing is, but I think that that's the costly work of following Jesus in those moments.You Don't Need to Have Conversations with People Whose Goals Are Not ConnectionSy Hoekstra: Yeah. And just one more note on the goal, because we're starting to get into how these conversations actually work. But I did just wanna say one more thing about the overall goal of connection first before we move into that, just because I think this one is important. Especially for people who do ministry work of some kind, or talk about the kind of things that we talk about publicly, is if your goal is connection and the other person's goal is not connection, that's another reason that you don't have to talk to them [laughs]. Meaning, here's what I'm talking about here. I've seen you, Jonathan, in situations with people who do the kind of classic Christian thing when they disagree with something you're saying in public. They come to you and they say, “Hey, I've heard you talking about, let's say, police brutality. And I have some thoughts, I was wondering if we could just talk about it. Could we set up some time to have a Zoom?”And I've seen you go like, say to this person in not so many words basically, “I don't actually think that your goal is to have a conversation right now. I think you're upset with what I'm saying and you want to try and change me. Is that correct?”Jonathan Walton: Yeah [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: You just said that to them, and not rudely. You put it in kind words, but you're just like, “Am I right in thinking that that's really what you want here?” And if they can't say no, then you will say, “Okay, I'm sorry. I don't really think I have time for this,” [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And move on. Which is something that I don't think a lot of ministers feel the need to do. But if someone is cutting off the possibility of connection from the jump, and all they're saying is, “I want to change you,” or they're refusing to not say that all they want is to change you, [laughs] you don't have to talk to them. You have no responsibility to talk to that person because you don't have a responsibility to get into an argument with anyone. Even as a pastor. Your responsibility is to shepherd people and to lead people, and if our conversation is just going to be an argument, you don't have to talk to them. You may still want to, everything I say is subject to your personal relationships with people and your individual circumstances, but that's an option, and I want more people to know that [laughs], because I think a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to just win arguments when they don't need to be having them.Winning Arguments Is Not What Leads to RepentanceJonathan Walton: Yeah. And also too, I think we've misidentified what the fruit of a won argument is.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: So for example, if I preach a sermon, or I have a conversation with a small group of people and I give a call to faith, and someone decides to follow Jesus, I did not win an argument. They're not saying I have the best ideas, or I presented things in a really compelling way, none of that is happening. What's happening is the Holy Spirit is working within them for them to respond in some way. It's the kindness of God that leads to repentance. The Gospel is the power and transformation. I can't say, “You know what? What I drew on that napkin, or what I put in that card, when the PowerPoint slide opened and everybody went, ooh,” like, no. That was not the power. It is the power of God that draws people nigh into himself.Sy Hoekstra: Nigh unto himself [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes. KJV baby. KJV [laughter].How Do We Achieve Connection in Difficult Conversations?Sy Hoekstra: So let's get into then the actual strategies and kind of the meat of the question.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: That's it. Let's get into, how do you regulate yourself and what do you actually do to achieve the goal of connection?We Have to Know Ourselves to Connect with OthersJonathan Walton: Yeah, so I think the first thing is that we can't know other people unless we know ourselves. So for example, if… let's say I was having a conversation over the weekend with someone, and they said to me, “Well, I can't believe they would think that way.” And then I said, “Well, if I were in your situation, I would be pretty angry at that response. Are you upset? Do you feel angry?” I have to know, and be willing to name that I would be angry. I have to know, and be willing to imagine, like how to empathize. Like I'm listening to them, then I wanna empathize with how they're feeling, and then ask them, “Does that resonate with you?” To build some sort of emotional connection so that we stay grounded in them as an individual and not stepping up to the argument. Like “Oh, yeah. Absolutely, what they did was wrong.”I don't wanna participate in condemning other people either. I wanna connect with this person. We could commiserate around what happened, but I think we should prioritize what is happening for the person right in front of me, not just rehashing what happened to them. You know what I mean? Like figure out what's going on. So I think we have to know ourselves to be able to know other people, which includes that emotional awareness and intelligence. And then I think after that, we should affirm what's true about that person. And then, if we've done that, then be able to ask some questions or share our own perspective.Sy Hoekstra: Or what's true about what they're saying.Jonathan Walton: Yes, what's true about what they're saying, yeah. And then be able to lean in there. And if there is an opportunity and the person desires to hear what you think about it, then that's great, but I guarantee you, they will not wanna hear about what you're saying if you don't connect with them first. And so creating or building a foundation of trust that you're not trying to just convert them or consume them or colonize them, but you are trying to connect requires that first part. So slowing down, then knowing how we feel, and then being able to connect around that level is a great place to start.Connect with Whatever Is True in What the Other Person Is SayingSy Hoekstra: Can you tell us what finding what's true and what someone is saying and then affirming that value, what does that actually sound like?Jonathan Walton: Yes, absolutely. So let's go to a different script. There was a woman that had a conversation with me and was very upset that Black people could vote for Trump. This was a racially assigned White woman saying these things. And she was, I mean, raising her voice very loud, and so I said my goal… I did actually speak over her. I said, “So my goal in this conversation is for us as a group to remain connected and aware of each other and ourselves. What is your goal in what you're saying?” And I think that kind of threw cold water in her face because she didn't know what to do with that. And so she slowed down, then she said, “Well, I don't know. I haven't processed anything,” that was kind of what she blurted out.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. I knew that, actually [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And I said, “It's great that like you need… this is a space to process.” I said, “What I would love for you to do is to slow down and tell us what you want, because I don't think you want me to be angry, and that's actually how I'm feeling right now. Was that your goal, was for me to feel angry and disconnected from you?” And she goes, “Well, you shouldn't be mad at me.” I said, “I can own my feelings. I didn't say you made me angry. I said my feeling in what you're saying is anger. Is that your intention? Is that what you're trying to foster? Because I would actually like to have my emotional response match your intent.” And it was not an easy conversation, but she did say after about 15 minutes of this kind of back and forth, she said, “I wanted to just close my computer,” is what she said, “But I didn't.” And then I said, “I'm so glad you chose to stay.”Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: “I'm so glad you chose to remain in our group. And to affirm again, you are valuable here, we desire your contribution and things like that.”Sy Hoekstra: And you were specifically in like a cohort that you were leading.Jonathan Walton: And I think it is hard to move towards someone who… Yeah, I was leading. I was leading. And everybody else was silent. They were not saying anything, but I had follow up conversations with one person after that, who said they were very grateful that I did that, because they were like, “I didn't know that you could be patient like that with someone so animated.” They were like, “I don't understand how you were calm in that situation.” I said, “Well, I was calm because I knew who I was. I was facilitating the conversation. I was leading the dialogue.” And I said, “When I'm with my mom,” not my mom, my mom passed away. “But if I was with my dad or my brothers in that conversation, I would have to do the same thing, but it will require more work because of the emotional history that's there. This history of my family and stuff under the bridge.”So each relationship is gonna bring with it its own porcupine quills, if you will, but that doesn't mean our steps change. I think our goal is to love our neighbor as ourselves. And if we don't know ourselves, we can't love our neighbors. So in the way that we would want patience and want grace and want respect, I think we need to extend that as best as we possibly can by trying to build a connection.Sy Hoekstra: And if you're talking about, I think that's really good for a discipleship situation. Anybody who disciples people, I hope you just learned something from that story [laughs]. But if you're having, by the way, Jonathan, I've noticed as we're talking, there's a very long delay. So I apologize.Jonathan Walton: No worries.Sy Hoekstra: I just interrupted you with something that was related to something you said like three sentences later, I'm sorry [laughs].Jonathan Walton: You're all good [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: So I think when it comes to a political issue, if you're talking to someone who's saying something that you find very hurtful or very upsetting or whatever, which is where I think a lot of these questions come up for people. For a lot of people it's, “How do I talk to a Trump supporter?” That's kind of the question.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And then, like Jonathan said, it's going to be very hard. It's going to depend on your relationship with that person. And this work can be hard. It's very hard to get people to talk about their emotions, but that's what we need to do when somebody's talking… if they're being very anti-immigrant. You need to find a way into how they're communicating and what they're saying as angry as they are, whatever. An underlying thing might be, “I feel insecure about the economy of our country, I feel insecure about my job. I feel like I'm not gonna be able to provide because somebody's gonna undercut me in wages or whatever.” All that stuff. And the way to connect with that person is to say, “That makes sense, that feeling. And if I felt that that was happening to me, I would also be insecure.”Maybe it is also happening to you, you know what I mean? You have to just find a way into that feeling, and then say, “But the way that I feel secure is X, Y and Z, about…” If you want to talk about solidarity and lifting everyone up actually makes all of us more secure. You can get into the nitty gritty of immigration and economics, if you know that stuff, and say [laughs], “Actually, in general, immigrants really help us economically. And so I actually feel more secure. I know that immigrants commit crime at lower rates than citizens. And I trust the numbers that say that, and that comes from police departments. We can go look at your police department stats. So immigrants coming in actually lowers crime. I know that's a shock, but. So I feel more secure.” All that kind of like, you try and find a way to connect on the emotion and speak in a… What I'm doing right now is summarizing and being slightly glib, but [laughs] I think that's the best you can do.People You Connect with May Not Change, or Take a Long Time to ChangeSy Hoekstra: And I know to some people, if you have a really obstinate person that feels hopeless and impossible, and I think what we're saying is you give it your best shot, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And there's nothing you can do about it not working. And it might also be something, by the way, where you talk to them now and that's the beginning of a 10-year process of them changing.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: You don't know. This is why I said that stuff's out of your hands, is what I mean. So that's where we need to find our own internal piece about it. And then, I don't know, there's a number of other thoughts I have about what you have to do to prepare for all that, like the prep work that goes into it. But do you have other thoughts about that, Jonathan?Jonathan Walton: Well, I mean, I think just all of what you said is true, and I just wanna lean into what you said about, you cannot rush the process of that relationship. Because if your relationship is broken by what you think about trans rights, then I think we need to examine what kind of relationship you had in the first place. Because I think our relationships have to be much more than our opinions about the latest political topic of the day. We've got to be able to have conversations with people that are deeper and contain the multitudes that a person holds, as opposed to the latest tweet or share that they had.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: We're talking with people, we're not talking with a minimally viable product that's before us like, “Do I want this or not in my life?” And so I think even in the, let's take the example, like Caleb Campbell did a great example of this immigration. If someone actually believed that they were going to be invaded, I'm making quotes with my fingers, but invaded and they're gonna lose their job and they're gonna lose their emotional and spiritual and social security, not Social Security like the actual entitlement program, but social security like their feeling of social safety, that is objectively terrifying. If that is the narrative, then we can actually connect with people around why they're afraid.And if we connect with them why they're afraid, not convince them why they shouldn't be scared, then you actually have the opportunity to share with them why they may not need to be afraid. Because, as Sy said, immigrants crime actually goes down. Immigrants actually pay billions of dollars in taxes. Immigrants actually start businesses at a higher rate than our native population. All those things, but we can't get there unless we're connected. We cannot correct people without connecting with them. So, yeah.Getting Good at Connection Takes PracticeSy Hoekstra: Yeah. I think this takes a ton of practice.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: You will be bad at it at first, and that's [laughter]… So I think another part of it is you have to know why it's important to you. That's another thing, and that's a personal thing. But you have to understand why connection with someone whose political beliefs or whatever you find kind of abhorrent [laughs] is something that is important to you, that work has to be done on your own and ahead of time.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: You also have to take into account… sorry. You'll just get better at it over time. So meaning it, I'd say it's only like in the last few years that I've really been able to participate in extremely difficult conversations about politics or whatever, and just be okay [laughter], no matter what the consequence of it is. And sometimes that's still not true, depending on the relationship I have with the person, but I don't know. You've got to remember that people… actually, at the beginning I remember I told you she talked about, as a young person or as millennials and Gen Z wanting to shut people down. And I actually don't think that's a generational thing. I think that's just a young people thing.I think when I was 22 I thought it was awesome to shut people down [laughs]. And I think all the most recent, this is something I know from justice advocacy work, but all the recent neurology science basically tells us you don't have an adult brain until you're like 25 [laughter]. You don't have your impulse control, you know what I mean? It's just hard.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And it just takes time to retrain yourself to do something, It can take years. So fear not, is what I'm saying, if you think you're bad at this.Being Aware of How Much You Know about a SubjectSy Hoekstra: And then I think something that's kind of deceptively emotional is the things that don't seem emotional, like knowing your facts and being able to bow out of conversations when you don't know your facts [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: Like if you have a feeling that something's wrong, but somebody's saying something wrong, or bigoted, or whatever, but you don't have the information, A, it's gonna make you much more comfortable if you do have the information, if you've read up on it, if you know the subjects. Because you find as you dig deeper into different political issues and hot button topics, there really are only so many opinions that people have, and they're usually based on relatively shallow understandings of information. So you can know a lot of the arguments ahead of time. You can know a lot of the important facts ahead of time. You've just kind of got to pay attention and that's something that happens over time.And then if you don't know that stuff, and you try and engage anyway just based on instinct, you're gonna have a lot of times where you say stuff that you regret later [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes. Yes.Sy Hoekstra: You're gonna have a lot of times where you maybe even make up something just because you wanna be right and you wanna win.Jonathan Walton: Yes, you wanna win.Sy Hoekstra: And then bowing out and letting someone believe their terrible thing without you fighting against it, sometimes that can be really hard, but that's an emotional issue, that's something about you being…Jonathan Walton: Right. That's a feeling. Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. It's always gonna be feelings, and that's why you got to have your goals clear, and whenever you can, know your stuff.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Adam just said something, really quick. He said, “I've literally had notification of high heart rate from my Apple watch during such conversations.”Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] Yes.Jonathan Walton: And being able to have conversations without a high heart rate notification is becoming more normal.Sy Hoekstra: Yes. Good.Jonathan Walton: Yes, that has happened to me so many times. And it's true. It's fewer, it's less than what it was before that.Sy Hoekstra: That's so funny. I don't have a smart watch, so that's never happened to me, but that's so funny. And I'm glad that it's improving for both of you [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And it's a way to track if your spiritual formation's actually forming you [laughter].Sy Hoekstra: True.Engaging in Hard Conversations with Connection as a Goal is ExhaustingSy Hoekstra: So one more thing though is, this is exhausting.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: One of the reasons it's exhausting is not just because the whole thing is hard, but the issue is no one's ever gonna come to you, again, I guess, unless you're a pastor, and say, “Hey, next Wednesday at 4:00 pm I wanna talk to you about immigration.”Jonathan Walton: Right [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: They're going to come to you, you're gonna be having a dinner, and there's gonna be a completely random out of nowhere comment that you do not expect coming and your instinct may be in that moment to get angry or to just let it pass because you don't wanna deal with right now or whatever. And all that you have to take that into account. Again, over time it'll get easier to respond to random acts of racist bigotry, whatever. You know what I mean?Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: But it is something that's hard to do for anyone, and so you need to take the exhaustion of constantly being on alert into account when you think about, how do I wanna connect with this person? Because if it's someone where you have to be on alert the whole time and ready to go at any moment [laughs], that's difficult. And that's somebody that you might need to hang out with less or whatever.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Yes.Sy Hoekstra: You have to make those decisions for yourself. And so I'm just saying, be willing to take that into account. Be alert to that way that you can become exhausted. Because, again, if you're really tired and you just have a snap reaction, you can say stuff you regret later.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Alright, Jonathan. Do you have… Yeah, you have thoughts. Go ahead and then we'll get to...Jonathan Walton: No, I was gonna say, off all of that, I think is mitigated by asking myself, “What kind of connection do I want with this person?”Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And all of us have relationships that are not as healthy as we'd like them to be. And if my goal is not to convert someone or I don't feel this like abnormal, huge weight of this person's salvation, because that's not my responsibility, then I can say, “You know what? I just can't be with that person right now. I just can't do that.” And be able to enter into that in a healthier way, and it'll be a more loving thing.The Power Dynamics of Difficult ConversationsSy Hoekstra: Yeah, absolutely. Let's just get into, I think that's a lot of the meat of it, but let's talk about just some of the power dynamics and other things that are going on during these conversations. Jonathan, I'm happy to start if you want, but you can go ahead if you have some things you wanna flag for people.Jonathan Walton: Well, I think if we're not thinking about power dynamics then we're missing what's actually happening. So when men to women, able-bodied to disable-bodied, rich to poor, educated to uneducated. All of these things are playing all the time. So somebody's like, “Oh, you're playing the race card, or you're being ageist,” that's just the table. It's not a card. That's just the society we live in. We live in a segregated, stratified society. And so to be able to be aware of that, I think respects whether you are in the ecosystem or whether you've been lifted up by the ecosystem because of the hierarchies that we live in. I think that's just something we have to take into account of where we are and where the person that we are engaging with is or is perceived to be, then that can be a gift, just in the conversation. Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: So that's sort of like keeping in mind whether you're talking to someone who's basically [laughs] above or below you on different hierarchies, which is gonna be important. Like, if you're talking, if I as a White person am talking to a Black person about race, I have to understand the dynamics. For me, at least, what I'm thinking about is I have to be personally familiar with the stuff that Black people hear all the time [laughs], and how it is often heard, and that sort of thing. Not because I need to apply a monolithic understanding of race conversations to any individual, but just to know that that individual is probably going to hear something I say this way, or feel this way about something.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: I'm sorry about the sirens in my background. I live in Manhattan [laughter]. So I think that's one thing. But then the other way is I as a disabled person, if I'm trying to talk to an able-bodied person about disability stuff, I just need to take into account how much more tiring that's going to be, and the work that I may have to do after the conversation to process whatever terribly insulting thing was said to me [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And I do that all the time. That's something I have to do when I get home from dropping my daughter off at daycare. It just depends on what happened on the way there, or whatever. Another thing is that the, a person you're talking to can always walk away [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: Nobody needs to be in this conversation, and that you need to be able to accept that. You need to be able to let people go the way that Jesus did when they rejected his teachings. Because if you don't do that and [laughs] you try and force them into conversations with you, again, that's what we're trying to avoid doing, is panicking about the results and trying to make somebody like you because you think the world needs to be the way that you are. That's the colonialist mindset [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: And then I think one other thing for me is how the person… this is back on the hierarchy thing. How what somebody else is saying is affecting other people around you, or the other person that that person has to interact with. Meaning the person that you're trying to connect with might be someone, like not the person you're talking to. It might be somebody who's sitting next to you, it might be somebody who's not there.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: So that's just the other thing to keep in mind, because you might be trying to show somebody else that they have support, that's a huge thing. That's the person who you have a conversation with after your cohort call that you were talking about earlier. And it might be just like, if I'm talking to another White person and I know, actually doesn't matter if I know them or not, but if I'm talking about connection, if I know people of color who have to talk to this person and they're saying something that I think I can head off or correct in some way, then I should do that. And I should keep in mind my connection with that White person, but I've also top of mind it's gonna be the connection that I have with people of color who interact with that person too.Okay, those are my thoughts on that big question. Jonathan, do we have anything else to say about these conversations before we move to Which Tab Is Still Open?Jonathan Walton: [laughs] Well, I don't have anything more to say about that conversation. I do have two problems that our live audience will get to engage with.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: One is that I need to get… it's one o'clock.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And so I have a time stop.Sy Hoekstra: Right now?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And my phone is also telling me, yeah, because I was thinking, I didn't know we're gonna talk past one o'clock, but…Sy Hoekstra: [laughter] Well, we started like 12:15 so.Jonathan Walton: We did. We did, we did. And then my phone as we entered into this conversation is on the red.Sy Hoekstra: Is about to die. Alright, cool. So then I think what we'll do, Jonathan, is we'll record the Which Tab Is Still Open separately, and just add that to the bonus episode.Jonathan Walton: Absolutely.Sy Hoekstra: So again, everybody, if you wanna hear the recordings of this afterwards, and now I guess the extended version of this episode, become a paid subscriber at KTFPress.com, or just on, you're on Substack right now if you're listening to us. Become a paid subscriber, that would be amazing. If you wanna get our newsletter that's actually free, you can follow us on the free list and get us that way. Thank you so much for joining us today, we really appreciate it. Give us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify and we will see you next month. We do these once a month now that we're in the off season. And our theme song is “Citizens”, by Jon Guerra. Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess. Joyce Ambale does the transcripts. I'm doing the editing right now and the production of this show, along with our paid subscribers. Thank you all so much for joining us, and we will hopefully see you next month or on the paid list.Jonathan Walton: Yep, bye.Sy: Bye.[the intro piano music from “Citizens” by Jon Guerra plays briefly and then fades out.]Which Tab Is Still Open?: Rev. William Barber and Poor VotersSy Hoekstra: And now this is the separate recording of Which Tab Is Still Open. We're gonna dive a little bit deeper into one of the articles from the newsletter that Jonathan brought up recently. Jonathan, why don't you tell us about the article, and we'll get into a little discussion about it.Jonathan Walton: Yes. So our good friend, John Blake, award winning journalists and former guest on this podcast interviewed Reverend Dr William Barber on his thoughts after the election. It was one of the most interesting things I read post-election, because Dr Barber has a perspective most politicians and pundits just don't. He takes a perspective of poor people seriously, like Jesus [laughter]. And so one of the things he argues was that about 30 million poor people who are eligible voters usually don't vote because neither party is addressing the issues that are important to them, like minimum wage, affordable health care, strengthening unions, etc.There was talk about strengthening unions, but not in the ways that communicate about the needs and priorities of low wage and poor workers. Republicans mostly blame poor people for their poverty, that is a consistent thing over the last 60 years. And Democrats ignore them altogether because they see them not as a viable voting block to mobilize, we should get middle class voters, which is not the same as the working poor. Barber has a history of successfully organizing multiracial coalitions of poor working class people in North Carolina to make real difference in elections. So it's not just a theoretical thing, like you can actually win elections by doing what MLK did, which Barber is in the tradition of you can have a multicultural coalition of impoverished or economically impoverished, marginalized people in the United States and actually have and hold power in the country.So even as Kamala Harris lost in November in North Carolina, voters elected a Democratic Governor and Attorney General and got rid of the veto-proof majority in the state legislature, even with all of the nonsensical gerrymandering that exist there. So Sy, what are your thoughts on all this?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. I'm very happy that somebody in the mainstream news is actually talking about this [laughs]. That's one thing. I just haven't heard... This is one of those things where if somebody, if the Democrats got this right, they could win a lot more. I don't know how much more, Reverend Barber is very optimistic about it. I haven't dug into the numbers the way that he has as a political organizer, but he basically says if you swing like 10 percent of the poor vote in any direction in many states, and you could change a whole lot of stuff.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: I mean, you can read the article for his exact arguments. But it is definitely true that we don't address poor voters any real way, like we get stuck on, I've talked about this before, the bias toward, quote- unquote, real America, which sort of amounts to working and middle class White people and really does not address actually impoverished people. And the average, Reverend Barber is very sensitive to this, which I think is why he's effective, is the average welfare recipient in the United States today is still White. That hasn't changed. Welfare recipients are disproportionately Black and Brown. But the demographics of this country are such that you can be disproportionately high as a racial minority, but White people are still gonna be the majority of the welfare recipients.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And the potential interest alignment between those groups has always been intentionally broken up by elites in this country. And the thing that this raises for me is our constant, throughout our whole history, our belief that basically, poor people's opinions don't matter, that poor people's interests don't matter, and maybe poor people shouldn't even be voting in the first place. We had to have a movement in this country for universal White male suffrage [laughs] in the first few decades of this country, that was a fight. And the reason was they did not want you voting originally, if you didn't own property. And the belief behind that was, if you don't have property, then you don't have a stake in society. You don't have a sufficient stake in society to, I don't know, uphold the responsibility of voting.And in a lot of different ways that bias or that bigotry, frankly, has shot through a lot of different ways that we think about economics and politics. And just the idea like, it does not make sense to start with. If anything, the people with the most stake in how the government treats them are the people with the least power, with the with the way that society is run, are going to be the people who suffer the most when society is run poorly [laughs]. And the people who have the most independent wealth and power, meaning they can, regardless of what the government is doing, they're going to be generally alright, because they are wealthy landowners, if we're talking about the beginning of this country. They're actually kind of the least interested in how society runs, and maybe the most interested in maintaining the status quo and not having things change, which I think is what we're actually talking about.I think we're actually talking about not having significant change [laughs] in our economics, when we talk about the people who have the most quote- unquote, responsibility or the most sense of responsibility for how the society goes. And I think all of that bleeds into how both parties think today, because both parties are made up of elites. And I think there was this huge and terrible reaction to the CEO of United Healthcare being assassinated. And I was reading some stuff about it that basically said, if you're talking about healthcare, which is one of the issues that William Barber brought up, I think the reason that a lot of people don't understand the anger and the glee over the fact that this guy was killed online, which there was a ton of, which I don't support.But if you're trying to understand it there's so many elites who are the healthcare CEOs themselves, the politicians who write healthcare policy for whom, the biggest problem that health insurance is ever going to be is maybe a significant amount of paperwork. Maybe you get something declined or not covered, and you have to fight a little bit and then you get it covered again. It's not something that's going to bankrupt you or kill you. But that's a reality for many, many people around the country.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: And if it's not bankrupt or kill, it's long, grinding trauma over a long period of time.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And it's just so easy for us to lose sight of stuff like that and then not understand as a political party, why addressing those problems directly wouldn't matter. And when I say us in that case, I mean people who are economically comfortable and who have educated and are doing okay in this society. And so all this is what Barber's comments bring up for me is, he is trying to pay attention to real needs that real people have, and alert his party, the Democrats, to the fact that if they understood and paid attention to and took those needs seriously, they would have a ton of voters who nobody's counting on right now. Like there's no strategy around them.It's not you would be stealing voters from the Republicans, you would be bringing in a whole bunch of new voters and doing something that no one is expecting, and you'd be able to [laughs] actually make a big difference that way. Jonathan, if you have any thoughts or just your own responses to me, or your own thoughts.Jonathan Walton: Well, I think there's a there's a few things like, yeah, I'm grateful for John Blake and for media personalities that take the time to center the most marginalized people, because that was not the conversation. All the post mortem of the Democratic Party and the celebration of what Trump did, neither one of those things included real solutions for materially impoverished people in the United States. They were not a group of people that were, when you said, counted, it's literally they're not counted. They do not count in that way. There isn't analysis, there isn't engagement. And so that I think is deeply saddening. So I'm grateful for John Blake for highlighting it. I'm grateful for Barber for the work that he does.I think one of the things that highlights for me is the… because you use the word elite, and I think there was an essay a while ago that I read about the word elite and what it means and how we use it. Like Tucker Carlson says the elites, when in reality he is elite. Elite is Hell.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: The money that he makes, the universities that he went to, the position that he holds. Me and you are elite. We both have Ivy League educations, we both have graduate degrees. We are both financially secure, we are both educated and well connected. And the majority of, some of that, that I realize is that if I have those things I am insulated from the suffering that millions of people experience around health insurance. And because our classes in the United States are segregated and our churches are also often segregated, we are not going to have relationships with people that are struggling with these things. It's very difficult, at least for me, to live in Queens, to have conversations and relationships that are cross class.My children participate in activities that cost money. That's a proxy for a class decision. I drive, I do not take the train. That is a class communication. I live in a home and I own it, I do not rent. That's a class. I drive to a supermarket like Costco. You have to pay for a membership to be in Costco. These are all economic decisions, and there are going to be certain groups of people that I do not interact with every single day, because I have more money. And so I think if we stretch that out across the Democratic, Republican independent leadership in our country, the majority of us do not interact with people that are from a different class, higher or lower. And so we have these caricatures of what life looks like, which is why an executive can say it doesn't matter if we deny or defend or depose or delay or all the things that were written on these bullets that came from the person that killed the United Healthcare CEO.The reality is, I think we do not… I don't think, I know this, we do not prioritize the poor in this country. And to what you were saying, it's not that we don't prioritize poor and marginalized people, it's a strategic, intentional exclusion of them. So [laughs] like you said, the reality is, if you were not a wealthy land-owning White person, you were not allowed to vote or hold elected office. And so that's a reality. So each time a tier of people wanted to be included, there was an argument, there was a fight, there was war, there was violence. And so I believe that there is an opportunity that Barber is talking about too. It does not have to be violent to include people who are poor and marginalized.It's really just a decision to and the time and intentionality to do it. And I wish that the church did that. I wish that politicians did that. I wish that we did that as a society. And I recognize in my own life it is even still difficult to do because of how our society has set up invisible and very real fences between economic communities.Sy Hoekstra: And it's remarkable for you to say that in some ways. I mean, it makes sense that you would be the person to notice it, but it is remarkable in some ways for you to say it because you grew up as you've talked about many times, quite poor in the rural south.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And you are actually directly connected to people who don't have a lot of money, right?Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And that's still your reality that your day to day life does not involve that many poor people.Jonathan Walton: Right. And that is, to be totally transparent, that is one of the hardest things about getting older and having children. When we go home, when I say home I'm thinking Brodnax.Sy Hoekstra: The small farming town in Virginia that you're from.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Where I'm from. It's exceptionally clear to me that the access that I have to resources, the decisions that I'm making each day are infused with the wealth and resources that surround me, just by virtue of the location that I live in. So we have to do really, really, really hard work to include people who are across classes in our lives, so that when we consider what we're going to do with our power, they are included in that decision. And I think Barber did a great job of explaining why that is strategically important as well.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, so two points. One is, thank you for talking about that. For those of you who don't know, Jonathan and I are good friends. That's why I can say, “Hey Jonathan, let's talk about [laughs] your background as a poor person.”Jonathan Walton: Yeah [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: We've talked about this a ton on the show before, Jonathan is very open about it in public. And that, I actually think, hearing you talk about the tension and how your hometown is versus your new adopted home, a lot of that is actually part of the answer. Just people being willing to be totally open about their own financial circumstances, and the differences they see between places, because that is something that we hush up and we talk about, we make it shameful to talk about your money. We make it shameful for everyone to talk about their money. You're not supposed to talk about it if you're rich, you're not supposed to talk about it if you're poor [laughs]. You're basically only supposed to talk about it if you're right where the Republicans think real Americans are [laughter]. You know what I mean?Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And yeah, just being willing to talk about it openly and in a not ashamed way actually goes a long ways to breaking some of the taboos that hold the silence on these issues. That's one thing. The other thing is, you said at the end just now, that William Barber would argue that it is strategic to basically address the needs of the poor voters who are not voting. But earlier you said it is a strategic exclusion, or like a strategic that they're evading talking about these issues.Jonathan Walton: Oh yeah. So in the Constitution, there is a strategic exclusion of poor, marginalized, non-White-land-owning-educated-well-healed people. There's the intentional strategic exclusion of those people for the maintenance of power and dominance, right?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And I think there needs to be a strategic, intentional inclusion of those people, and the intentional redistribution, and I know people hate that word, redistribution [laughs] of resources, so that people can be included in our society in a meaningful way.Sy Hoekstra: Well, Jonathan's a communist. You heard it here first.Jonathan Walton: [laughs] It's not the first time I've been accused of loving the Marx.Sy Hoekstra: Loving the… [laughs]. But I think the other aspect of it is just, the reality is that the donors that support both parties, these are not priorities of theirs. In fact, a lot of times they're opposed to the priorities of theirs. They are the healthcare CEOs. They are the people who have to negotiate against the unions. They are the people who would have to pay up the higher minimum wages. So that's part of the thing that makes it challenging. But Barber's been able to do the work [laughs] in North Carolina and make a difference there. And it's not… and he was one of the people, organizing like his is what made North Carolina a swing state in the first place from a traditionally deep red state. So it's worth trying, guys [laughs].Jonathan Walton: It is.Sy Hoekstra: Take a look, Democrats.Jonathan Walton: Worth trying.Sy Hoekstra: It's worth trying [laughs]. It's not just worth trying for political victories either. It's also worth actually addressing poor people's needs [laughs], to be clear about what I'm saying.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And I think I was convicted. Like, Shane Claiborne said this and others like Merton has said this, and Howard Thurman said this, and MLK said it, and Jesus said it. The center of the church should be marginalized people. That should actually be the thing. “The poor will always be with us,” is not an endorsement of poverty. That's not what that is. You know what I mean? [laughter] Some people were like, “Well, people are supposed to be poor, and I'm supposed to…”Sy Hoekstra: I know. I know. Or, the poor will always be with us, and that means that we should not try to end poverty, because Jesus said you can't end it.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, right. That, no. But the reality that that is a broken, tragic theology that aligns with White American folk religion and requires no sacrifice from people who are on the upper end of a dominant hierarchy. That's what that is. Yeah. I hope that even if the political parties of the United States do not pay attention to what to what Barber is saying, that the Church will. That would be great.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. Amen to that. Alright. I think we're just gonna end it there. I already did the outro and everything, the credits and all that stuff in the Live episode, so I think Jonathan and I at this point are just going to say thank you all so much for listening. We will see you in January for the next episode. Goodbye.Jonathan Walton: Thank you. Bye [laughter].[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Sy Hoekstra: How what somebody else is saying is affecting other people around you, or the other person that that person has to interact with, meaning the person who youJonathan Walton: [burps].Sy Hoekstra: [laughs], remember, I can't mute you if you just burp into your microphone.Jonathan Walton: Yes, sir. My apologies. [laughter] Welcome to live everyone.Sy Hoekstra: Welcome to live Substack.Jonathan Walton: I drank a ton of water. They saw me just do that [laughter].

Christians in America Brood of Vipers. Anti-gun, Anti-war Christian Activist Shane ClaiborneCo-founder of Red Letter Christians In this episode we cover what angers Shane and go from blasphemous to divine. PARTNER LINKS Soundstripe Need Royalty Free Music, SFX and Video? You need Soundstripe! Follow this link to get the best song, SFX and video library for your own creative needs: ⁠⁠⁠https://soundstripe.com?fpr=christianpodcast⁠⁠⁠ Get 10% Discount when you enter promo code: ChristianPodcast Streamyard Want to create live streams like this? Check out StreamYard: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://streamyard.com/pal/d/5548161986330624⁠⁠ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/xtianpodcast/support

"It's easier to get a gun in America than it is to get rid of a gun.   Even gun buybacks and incentivized gun surrender events can be problematic, because law enforcement agencies have a record of putting the guns right back on the market. Just as it is unthinkable for police to sell back heroin from a drug bust, we have to insist that law enforcement agencies stop selling weapons.  It is a violation of their pledge to serve and protect. We've all heard of the black market, but it has become clear that there is an entire underground “blue market” of cops selling guns.  In a bombshell report, a recent study revealed that more than 52,000 guns used in crimes over a sixteen-year period can be tracked back to police.  At least 145 law enforcement agencies have sold firearms, which have later been used in thousands of shootings all over the country." - Shane Claiborne, Buying Guns on the Blue Market READ MORE: https://redletterchristians.org/2024/07/19/buying-guns-on-the-blue-market/ Help sustain the work of RLC: www.redletterchristians.org/donate/ To check out what RLC is up to, please visit us www.redletterchristians.org  Follow us on Twitter: @RedLetterXians Instagram: @RedLetterXians Follow Shane on Instagram: @shane.claiborne Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne Intro song by Common Hymnal: https://commonhymnal.com/

Mike Erre joins Phil and Skye to discuss how to survive the holidays. What's the best way to engage (or disengage) a contentious relative who wants to argue about politics, and how do we remain united as churches and families in these divided times? Professor, author, and preacher Tony Campolo died last week. Shane Claiborne returns to discuss his friendship with Campolo and his legacy of challenging the American church with the “red letters” of the Bible. Also this week—what's the real goal behind protecting public nativity displays, and disappointed political witches.   0:00 - Intro   1:33 - Show Starts   2:50 - Theme Song   3:12 - Sponsor - Wheaton Graduate School - Learn in a rich, rigorous Christian environment - https://www.wheaton.edu/holypost   4:20 - Sponsor - BioLogos - Go to https://biologos.org/podcast/language-of-god/ and check out the Language of God podcast!   5:24 - Interview    6:42 - Political Witches   12:54 - The Liberty Council's Annual Report   17:19 - Tony Campolo's Passing   26:35 - Being Grateful   46:03 - Favorite Conflict-Deflection Topic   54:05 - Sponsor - Aura Frames - Exclusive $45-off Carver Mat at https://www.AuraFrames.com. Use code HOLYPOST at checkout to save!   55:43 - Sponsor - Glorify - Sign up for the #1 Christian Daily Devotional App to help you stay focused on God. Go to https://glorify-app.com/en/HOLYPOST to download the app today!   56:48 - Interview   1:06:34 - Dealing with Pushback   1:12:00 - Where “Red Letter Christians” Comes From   1:20:46 - What Tony Was Like to Be Around   1:29:15 - End Credits     Links Mentioned in the News Segment: Witches Report Their Spells Against Trump Aren't Working: “He Has a Shield” https://cbn.com/news/us/witches-report-their-spells-against-trump-arent-working-he-has-shield   Liberty Council's Friend or Foe Campaign: https://lc.org/newsroom/details/111124-friend-or-foe-christmas-campaign-2025   Tony Campolo's Story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRBM_YY_YX0   Other resources: With God Daily with Skye Jethani: https://www.withgoddaily.com/   Voxology Podcast with Mike Erre: https://pod.link/1049250910   Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/   Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus   Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost   Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop   The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.  

Join Radio GAG as we approach Transgender Day of Remembrance, this Wednesday, November 20th, holding Trans victims of gun violence in our hearts with a new podcast that pushes back against Christian Nationalist hate. Hosts Sarah Germain Lilly and Ti Cersley bring you Part 2 of Churches Against Gun Violence. We speak to two faith leaders who see ending gun violence as part of their Christian call…Bryan Miller, of Heeding God's Call to End Gun Violence and Shane Claiborne, author and founder of Red Letter Christians. Both men speak to a broad bi-partisan community in churches in and around Pennsylvania and in the national conversation on gun violence.

We are excited to have October's featured guest Eliza Griswold talking about her latest book, "Circle of Hope: A Reckoning of Love, Power and Justice in an American Church" with Shane Claiborne and Katie Jo Brotherton. About the Book: "Circle of Hope" is an intimate portrait of a church, its radical mission, and its riveting crisis. “The revolution I wanted to be part of was in the church.” Americans have been leaving their churches. Some drift away. Some stay home. And some have been searching for—and finding—more authentic ways to find and follow Jesus. This is the story of one such “radical outpost of Jesus followers” dedicated to service, the Sermon on the Mount, and working toward justice for all in this life, not just salvation for some in the next. Part of a little-known yet influential movement at the edge of American evangelicalism, Philadelphia's Circle of Hope grew for forty years, planted four congregations, and then found itself in crisis. The story that follows is an American allegory full of questions with urgent relevance for so many of us, not just the faithful: How do we commit to one another and our better selves in a fracturing world? Where does power live? Can it be shared? How do we make “the least of these” welcome? Building on years of deep reporting, the Pulitzer Prize winner Eliza Griswold has crafted an intimate, immersive, tenderhearted portrait of a community, as well as a riveting chronicle of its transformation, bearing witness to the ways a deeply committed membership and their team of devoted pastors are striving toward change that might help their church survive. Through generational rifts, an increasingly politicized religious landscape, a pandemic that prevented gathering to worship, and a rise in foundation-shaking activism, Circle of Hope tells a propulsive, layered story of what we do to stay true to our beliefs. It is a soaring, searing examination of what it means for us to love, to grow, and to disagree. About the Author: Eliza Griswold is the author of six books of poetry and nonfiction, all published by Farrar, Straus and Giroux. Her book Amity and Prosperity: One Family and the Fracturing of America was awarded the 2019 Pulitzer Prize in General Nonfiction. She writes for The New Yorker, is the Ferris Professor and Director of the Program in Journalism at Princeton University, and lives in New Jersey with her husband and son. Help sustain the work of RLC: www.redletterchristians.org/donate/ To check out what RLC is up to, please visit us www.redletterchristians.org  Follow us on Twitter: @RedLetterXians Instagram: @RedLetterXians Follow Shane on Instagram: @shane.claiborne Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne Intro song by Common Hymnal: https://commonhymnal.com/

Help sustain the work of RLC: www.redletterchristians.org/donate/ To check out what RLC is up to, please visit us www.redletterchristians.org  Follow us on Twitter: @RedLetterXians Instagram: @RedLetterXians Follow Shane on Instagram: @shane.claiborne Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne Intro song by Common Hymnal: https://commonhymnal.com/

This episode features Shane Claiborne discussing the intersection of faith and social issues, particularly focusing on the importance of welcoming immigrants and supporting the marginalized. Claiborne emphasizes that actions like welcoming strangers and uplifting the lowly are deeply rooted in the teachings of Jesus, citing the Gospel of Luke to illustrate his points. He argues that these principles transcend political affiliations and are fundamental to being compassionate and decent human beings. Claiborne challenges listeners to embrace these teachings authentically and reflect on how living by Jesus' words can transform their lives.Find out more about Red Letter Christians here!Find Shane's books here!  Honoring the Journey is hosted, produced and edited by Leslie Nease and the artwork for the show is also created by Leslie Nease.Pick up Leslie's new book, Honoring the Journey: The Deconstruction of Sister Christian here.Interested in working with Leslie as your Life/Faith Transitions Coach? Check out her website and learn more about what she offers! https://www.leslieneasecoaching.comIf you'd like to be a part of the Honoring the Journey Team as a Patreon Supporter, please check it out at this link!Would you like to leave a voicemail for Leslie? Click here!If you are looking for community as you deconstruct or just a place to go and enjoy the company of people who are seekers, learners and who are looking to connect with the Divine without religious baggage, please join the Private Facebook Community! Leslie is very passionate about connection and community, so if that sounds like you, please come join us!

I talked about why I got baptized and my testimony and some other thoughts on baptism. I mention Dr. Victor Wierwille, EW Bullinger, Loni Frisbee, Ulrich Zwingli, Joni Mitchell, Chuck LaMattina, Tim Keller, John Piper, Shane Claiborne, Kallistos Ware, Soren Kierkegaard, Francis Collins, Augustine of Hippo, Athanasius, Tim Mackie, Jordan Peterson, Paul Vanderklay (  @PaulVanderKlay  ), Jonathan Pageau, Kanye West, Dr. Beau Branson, Bob Carden, Brett Salkheld, James McGrath, Basil the Great, Sean Finnegan (  @restitutio8765  ), Will Barlow, Anna Brown, Michael Servetus, Victor Gluckin, Reverend Gary Davis, Bob Dylan, Jorma Kaukonen, and Bob Weir. My randos convo with PVK - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuoqGzIu5Wc&t=3633s My last channel update - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJvcrgL79BY Rev. Gary Davis "Oh Glory How Happy I am" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=972Dx71AtFA

Shane Claiborne speaks about placing our hope not in a person, politician or political party but to place our hope in Christ alone. Our hope lies not in the donkey of the Democrats or the elephant of the GOP - it lays firmly instead on the lamb, on Jesus. Help sustain the work of RLC: www.redletterchristians.org/donate/ To check out what RLC is up to, please visit us www.redletterchristians.org  Follow us on Twitter: @RedLetterXians Instagram: @RedLetterXians Follow Shane on Instagram: @shane.claiborne Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne Intro song by Common Hymnal: https://commonhymnal.com/ 

Justice advocate and author Shane Claiborne helps us engage our hearts and our hands in the needs of the country. Especially the poor and forgotten. After sharing a couple stories, Shane teaches a historic practice to help us remove the plank in our own eye before we attempt to remove the speck in our neighbor's eye. Join us at The Between Retreats Substack for notes, links, and more.

In the final episode of Sacred Politics, we delve into the intersection of religion and social activism. From advocating for human rights to championing environmental stewardship, we uncover how religious groups and individuals have leveraged their faith to fuel positive change.Shane Claiborne: http://www.shaneclaiborne.com/https://www.instagram.com/shane.claiborne/?hl=enRed Letter Christians: https://redletterchristians.org/https://www.instagram.com/redletterxians/?hl=enRev Karla: https://revkarla.com/ https://www.instagram.com/revkarla/https://www.tiktok.com/@revkarla?lang=enFor a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue. You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media! Twitter: @TheSWPpod and @RedWineBlueUSA Instagram: @RedWineBlueUSA Facebook: @RedWineBlueUSA YouTube: @RedWineBlueUSA

In the final episode of Sacred Politics, we delve into the intersection of religion and social activism. From advocating for human rights to championing environmental stewardship, we uncover how religious groups and individuals have leveraged their faith to fuel positive change.Shane Claiborne: http://www.shaneclaiborne.com/https://www.instagram.com/shane.claiborne/?hl=enRed Letter Christians: https://redletterchristians.org/https://www.instagram.com/redletterxians/?hl=enRev Karla: https://revkarla.com/https://www.instagram.com/revkarla/https://www.tiktok.com/@revkarla?lang=enFor a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue. You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media! Twitter: @TheSWPpod and @RedWineBlueUSAInstagram: @RedWineBlueUSAFacebook: @RedWineBlueUSAYouTube: @RedWineBlueUSA

" 'An invaluable guide. . . I wish I had been able to read this book twenty years ago!' Ruth Valerio All around us there are signs of a broken world, situations that are just not right. Where do we begin? Sometimes we simply don't know what to do. Or maybe you are busy 'doing' and it's tough, even bringing you close to burn out. Whether you are new to activism or already on the road, this book will (re)kindle your hope and illuminate the way ahead. Featuring contributions from Shane Claiborne, Lisa Sharon Harper, Krish Kandiah, Sam Wells and many more, The Hopeful Activist is full of fresh wisdom and practical advice to help you play your part in bringing God's justice and restoration to the world around you." [AMAZON] PURCHASE: https://www.amazon.com/Hopeful-Activist-Discovering-vital-change/dp/0281088241 Help sustain the work of RLC: www.redletterchristians.org/donate/ To check out what RLC is up to, please visit us www.redletterchristians.org  Follow us on Twitter: @RedLetterXians Instagram: @RedLetterXians Follow Shane on Instagram: @shane.claiborne Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne Intro song by Common Hymnal: https://commonhymnal.com/ 

What a blessing to have Shane Claiborne as part of the extended Newsong family, especially at this crucial moment in our country. He reminds us that our true hope is not in a party or any person other than Jesus.

What a blessing to have Shane Claiborne as part of the extended Newsong family, especially at this crucial moment in our country. He reminds us that our true hope is not in a party or any person other than Jesus.

Doug Pagitt sits down with Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and poet Eliza Griswold to talk about her new book, Circle of Hope: A Reckoning with Love, Power, and Justice in an American Church. They are joined by Shane and Katie Claiborne who were part of the early Circle of Hope community. "Through generational rifts, an increasingly politicized religious landscape, a pandemic that prevented gathering to worship, and a rise in foundation-shaking activism, Circle of Hope tells a propulsive, layered story of what we do to stay true to our beliefs. It is a soaring, searing examination of what it means for us to love, to grow, and to disagree." Eliza Griswold is a Pulitzer Prize–winning American journalist and poet. Griswold is currently a contributing writer to The New Yorker and a Distinguished Writer in Residence at New York University. Shane Claiborne is a prominent speaker, activist, and best-selling author.  He and his wife, Katie helped found, and still live in, The Simple Way community in Philadelphia. Doug Pagitt is the Executive Director and one of the founders of Vote Common Good. He is also a pastor, author, and social activist.  @pagitt   The Common Good Podcast is produced and edited by Daniel Deitrich. @danieldeitrich Our theme music is composed by Ben Grace. @bengracemusic   votecommongood.com votecommongood.com/podcast facebook.com/votecommongood twitter.com/votecommon

Send us a Text Message.EXODUSHealing from Toxic Religion – Part 2Springcreek Church | Senior Pastor Keith StewartJuly 21, 2024 #god #realspringcreekchurch #healingfromtoxicreligion #exodus #toxicreligion #journey #testimonyhttps://www.springcreekchurch.org/I want to take you on a journey today – a journey out of toxic religion. To do that, I want to tell you a little of my own story; what led me out of religious fundamentalism, the breaking that occurred in me, and the flaws I began to see in my own beliefs and practice. I want to teach you how to recognize toxic environments but more importantly, I want to teach you how much God longs for you to experience Him as He actually is. It's my prayer that this message will lead to a spiritual breakthrough for you.DISCUSSION QUESTIONS 1. In the Exodus narrative, it is clear that delivering the children of Israel from Egyptian bondage was not nearly as difficult as delivering them from the mindset of slavery. As Pastor Keith pointed out, there are many ways this still holds true even today. We can be delivered from a bad situation, or an addiction, or terrible choices, but still desperately need healing inside, or else we may end up right back in the same situation with a different person or different substance. Can you think of ways you have seen this played out in your personal life or those you care about? Why is it more difficult to change one's thinking than it is to change one's circumstances? 2. As Pastor Keith shared how he and Brenda nearly destroyed their own marriage, what stood out to you most in the things he shared? Was there any part of his story you could personally relate to? If so, what and why? Why do so many troubled marriages resist getting the help they need? Have you ever had any experiences with 12-step recovery that you would be willing to share? 3. One of the dominant characteristics in all toxic religion is conformity – an emphasis on external behavior over internal transformation. Jesus rebuked this approach in the Pharisees of His day. Pastor Keith also emphasized what distinguished the way Jesus thought and defined spirituality versus how the Pharisees thought and defined it. What is the difference between bounded set thinking versus centered set thinking? How do toxic churches use bounded set thinking? Why do people think more like the Pharisees than they do like Jesus? 4.  Take some time to discuss Shane Claiborne's quote, do you agree with it or not? Have you seen this in churches or groups that you have been a part of?“One thing I've learned from believers and activists alike is that community can be built around a common self-righteousness or a common brokenness. Because both are magnetic. People are drawn toward folks who have it all together, or who look like they do. People are also drawn toward folks who know they don't have it together and are not willing to fake it.” – Shane Claiborne 5. What have been your experiences with guilt and shame as it relates to your church experiences or how you were parented or even how you were taught? Why is guilting or shaming someone so toxic? What effect does it have on people?  6. Were there any other significant learnings or takeaways from today's message for you?

It's a great Friday, because the one-and-only Leanna Crawford is here to chat about her debut album 'Still Waters'. And guess what? It's out today! Over the last five years, Leanna has made a name for herself in Christian music, touring and collabing with some of the industry's biggest names. With 'Still Waters' she gets real and vulnerable about her journey, battling depression, and falling back in love with song writing. Stick around at the end for Jess's New Release Round Up! Connect @LeannaCrawfordMusic and LeannaCrawford.com Buy/stream the album "Still Waters" here: https://leannacrawford.lnk.to/stillwaters MUSIC Still Waters (Psalm 23) by Leanna Crawford Honest by Leanna Crawford For Heaven's Sake by Leanna Crawford Love Better by Presence Music Band NEW RELEASES Summer Vibes playlist: https://spoti.fi/3YbEk92 The Sound of Worship playlist: https://spoti.fi/3Y3HYSe We Will Be Hopeful playlist: https://spoti.fi/3zGSHaX Do you want to know more about mental health or finding support through depression? Visit twloha.com/find-help Listen to Christianity Today's podcast The Bulletin Ep 90 with Shane Claiborne and Mike Cosper here: https://bit.ly/3Wb8lTN Connect with the 'Songs That Changed You' podcast here: https://apple.co/48pWMMA SUBSCRIBE/CONNECT/LET'S BE FRIENDS: https://linktr.ee/betweenyoumepod Music published with permission of artist and fair use permissions. Produced by Josh Dunn Media.

This episode in our Christ at the Checkpoint series features Shane Claiborne, renowned Christian activist and author. At CATC he gave a presentation titled “Good Trouble on Good Friday." In this episode, clips from his presentation are interwoven with his conversation with Jen about taking our faith to the streets and resisting violence with love. Shane Claiborne is a prominent speaker, activist, and best-selling author.  Shane worked with Mother Teresa in Calcutta, and founded The Simple Way in Philadelphia. He heads up Red Letter Christians, a movement of folks who are committed to living "as if Jesus meant the things he said." Shane is a champion for grace which has led him to jail advocating for the homeless, and to places like Iraq and Afghanistan to stand against war. Now grace fuels his passion to end the death penalty and help stop gun violence. Shane's books include Jesus for President, Red Letter Revolution, Common Prayer, Follow Me to Freedom, Jesus, Bombs and Ice Cream, Becoming the Answer to Our Prayers, Executing Grace, his classic The Irresistible Revolution, Beating Guns, and his newest book, Rethinking Life. He has been featured in a number of films and news outlets, and In 2023, Shane received the prestigious The King Center's Beloved Community Award for Social Justice from Dr. Bernice King (daughter of Martin Luther King Jr. and Coretta Scott King). Shane speaks regularly at denominational gatherings, festivals, and conferences around the globe.  We also provide an extended interview from this conversation for our Patreon supporters. Consider supporting us at ⁠⁠  / acrossthedivide⁠⁠   for extra content and perks. Follow Across the Divide on Youtube and Instagram ‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬   / acrossthedividepodcast   Show Notes Learn more about Shane's work at www.shaneclaiborne.com  Common Prayer, Shane Claiborne The Prophetic Imagination, Walter Bruegemann The Other Side of the Wall, Munther Isaac “Good Trouble on Good Friday,” Shane Claiborne (Good Friday demonstration at Lockheed Martin) Sharing Communion at the U.S.-Mexico border wall Tent of Nations (Palestinian Christian peacebuilding organization)

This week's supreme Court rulings and the Israel/Hamas conflict This week on The Bulletin, Russell Moore and Mike Cosper welcome legal expert David French to discuss the decisions delivered by the Supreme Court. Then, Shane Claiborne joins Mike Cosper and Clarissa Moll to discuss the Israel/Hamas conflict. Today's Guests: David French is a columnist for the New York Times. He's a former senior editor of The Dispatch. He's the author most recently of Divided We Fall: America's Secession Threat and How to Restore Our Nation. Shane Claiborne is a prominent speaker, activist, and best-selling author. Shane worked with Mother Teresa in Calcutta, and founded The Simple Way in Philadelphia. He heads up Red Letter Christians, a movement of folks who are committed to living "as if Jesus meant the things he said." Shane's books include Jesus for President, Red Letter Revolution, and The Irresistible Revolution. In 2023, Shane received the prestigious The King Center's Beloved Community Award for Social Justice from Dr. Bernice King (daughter of Martin Luther King Jr. and Coretta Scott King). “The Bulletin” is a production of Christianity Today Producer: Clarissa Moll Associate Producer: Leslie Thompson Editing and Mix: TJ Hester Music: Dan Phelps Executive Producers: Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Senior Producer: Matt Stevens Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Shane Claiborne is a best-selling author, renowned activist, sought-after speaker, and self-proclaimed “recovering sinner.” Shane writes and speaks around the world about peacemaking, social justice, and Jesus, and is the author of several books, including "The Irresistible Revolution," "Jesus for President," "Executing Grace," "Beating Guns," and his newest book, "Rethinking Life (released in Feb 2023)." He is the visionary leader of The Simple Way in Philadelphia and co-director of Red Letter Christians. His work has been featured in Fox News, Esquire, SPIN, TIME, the Wall Street Journal, NPR, and CNN. In this podcast episode (which was recorded on May 1st), we talk about the conflict in Israel-Palestine, student protests on U.S. university campuses, and various things related to patriotism, nationalism, and the gospel. Get a FREE one year supply of vitamin D plus 5 travel packs! https://www.drinkag1.com/TITR Support Theology in the Raw through Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theologyintheraw Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What will it take to address gun violence in America, and what might peacemaking have to say about it? These next few weeks, as we close out Gun Violence Prevention Month this June, we're taking some time to hear from the visionary peacemakers addressing the issue in creative, imaginative ways. Our first guest is Mike Martin, the Founder and Executive Director of RAW Tools. RAW Tools turns guns into garden tools (and other lovely things), resourcing communities with nonviolent confrontation skills in an effort to turn stories of violence into stories of creation. As they say it, they disarm hearts to forge peace. Mike is also the co-author of Beating Guns with Shane Claiborne, which discusses how our nation, and especially communities of Christian peacemakers, can transform the violence of guns into healing, generation, and life. While this conversation was recorded over a year ago, we felt the time was finally right to share, and we didn't want to sit on it any longer. This conversation is rich with policy analysis, theological framing, and personal stories, and we think you'll be powerfully inspired by it. Read and share the Principles and Practices of Peacemaking Join the Telos Learning Corps If you're enjoying the podcast, become a monthly donor to Telos!Leave a rating and review on Apple podcasts or SpotifyLearn more about RAWToolsRead “Beating Guns: Hope for a People Who Are Weary of Violence”

The world is full of violence and pain and all eyes are on Rafah in Gaza, as Palestians sheltering in that area of Gaza (declared a safe zone!)  are facing unimaginable horror - what do we do? How do we respond? What is the blessing of peacemaking in this moment?! Shane recently visited the West Bank and has been a faithful witness to the way of Jesus - he is going to share about his journey and invitation to be a peacemaker.Red Letter Christiansredletterchristians.orgShane Claiborneshaneclaiborne.com Get full access to Right Side Up: Danielle Strickland at daniellestrickland.substack.com/subscribe

May's Monthly Morning Prayer recorded May 1) with our featured guest and dear friend, Carlos A. Rodriguez. Carlos is a passionate speaker who leads the Happy Non-Profit and The Happy Givers. He is the author of Simply Sonship, Drop The Stones, and the upcoming Flip The Tables. His main passions are leading The Happy NPO and spending time with his wife, Catherine and their 3 adorable children. Oh yeah, he also wants everyone to know that he's a Puerto Rican (living in Puerto Rico) and he can't wait to host you there! Come on through to pray and reflect with Carlos A. Rodriguez in conversation with Shane Claiborne and Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove.

Watch the Full Interview Here Register for Faith and Politics for the Rest of Us Get Tickets to Theology Beer Camp (Promo Code: TNEHOBBIT)) Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you've been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We've built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join activists and authors Shane Claiborne and Lisa Sharon Harper as we discuss why White Christian Nationalism is the biggest threat to American Democracy and American Religious Freedom imaginable, and what we can do about it.If you want to call in to the Bonus Show, leave a voicemail at (530) 332-8020.LINKSQuoirCast on PatreonQuoirCast on PatheosPANELLisa Sharon HarperShane Claiborne

Lisa Sharon Harper, author of Fortune and host of The Freedom Road Podcast, joins Shane Claiborne to discuss deconstruction and the desecration of God's image. To help sustain our work, you can donate here To check out what RLC is up to, please visit us www.redletterchristians.org  Follow us on Twitter: @RedLetterXians Instagram: @RedLetterXians Follow Shane on Instagram: @shane.claiborne Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne Intro song by Common Hymnal: https://commonhymnal.com/ 

THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRISTJesus Ruins Funerals – Part 4Springcreek Church | Senior Pastor Keith StewartMarch 31, 2024#realspringcreekchurch #jesusruinsfunerals #resurrection #countdowntoeaster #easter #jesus #miracle #hope #transformationhttps://www.springcreekchurch.org/  All month long we've been looking at the resurrection miracles in the gospels culminating on Easter with the resurrection of Jesus Christ. More than anything, this message will help you see why the resurrection matters, what it means for us today, and how hope for true transformation is possible because of what happened on Easter Sunday morning. This is a message that can change your life.DISCUSSION QUESTIONS 1. Paul wrote in the book of Ephesians…I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know… his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead…  Ephesians 1.18-20 What does this verse mean to you? How have you experienced its truth? Bible prayers are some of the best prayers to pray for others. In your personal time with God, try praying this prayer for others you care about who are struggling, “I pray that eyes of Jim's heart will be enlightened so that he might know…” 2. God shows up in the most broken places of our life to show us His grace. Then He frequently uses the very things for which we are most embarrassed and ashamed as our ministry – the way we touch and help others most. Have you found this to be true in your life? If so, in what ways has God most used you? How would you encourage someone who tried to keep their failures and stumbling secret?  3. Shane Claiborne, in his book The Irresistible Revolution, said it like this, “Christianity can be built around isolating ourselves from evildoers and sinners, creating a community of religious piety and moral purity. That's the Christianity I grew up with. Christianity can also be built around joining with the broken sinners and evildoers of our world crying out to God, groaning for grace. That's the Christianity I've fallen in love with.” Do you agree with this thought? If so, how have you seen this same truth lived out? If you don't agree with what Shane Claiborne said, how is your view different?  4. Pastor Keith mentioned how the Bible is filled with the stories of main characters with messy problems. The Bible is a truth-telling book, even when it makes those lifted up as good examples as marred by imperfections. Who are some of the characters that display both strengths and weaknesses? Why do you think the Bible tells the truth about people even when it makes them look bad? Does this encourage you in your walk with the Lord or discourage you? 5. Paul says in Ephesians, “Now God has us where he wants us, with all the time in this world and the next to shower grace and kindness upon us in Christ Jesus. Saving is all his idea, and all his work. All we do is trust him enough to let him do it. It's God's gift from start to finish! We don't play the major role.  If we did, we'd probably go around bragging that we'd done the whole thing! No, we neither make nor save ourselves. God does both the making and saving. He creates each of us by Christ Jesus to join him in the work he does, the good work he has gotten ready for us to do, work we had better be doing Ephesians 2.7-10 (The Message).” He even says this, “...He has made us accepted in the beloved Ephesians 1.6b (KJV). To be a Christ follower is to accept the truth we will never be good enough on our own. It means to accept His acceptance of us. How does one accept God's acceptance of us?

In the final episode of our enlightening series on the Faithful Politics Podcast, we delve deep into the essence of Christianity in America, showcasing a narrative far removed from the shades of Christian nationalism we've explored thus far. This episode, rich with poignant stories and insightful conversations, aims to reveal the multifaceted nature of faith in action across the nation.Join us as we hear from remarkable guests including Shane Claiborne, Greg Boyd, Tim Alberta, Curtis Chang, and Chuck Mingo. Each brings a unique perspective on love, forgiveness, and hope, offering deep insights into the transformative power of genuine Christian faith.Our journey begins with a touching story of grace and forgiveness emanating from the Charleston church shooting—a powerful testament to the strength of faith in the face of darkness. This narrative sets the tone for our exploration into the actions inspired by the teachings of Jesus, highlighting love and inclusivity over division.We navigate through discussions that challenge the misconceptions surrounding Christianity, emphasizing the vast diversity within the faith and the true essence of being a Christian in today's world. Our conversations with our guests shed light on the complexities of faith, politics, and society, inviting listeners to reflect on the power of love as a foundational Christian principle.This episode also ventures into the personal, with stories of hope and resilience that resonate deeply in our current discourse on Christian nationalism. We discuss the societal impact of this ideology and the importance of understanding and addressing it from a place of faith and compassion."The Greatest of These is Love" is not just an episode; it's a heartfelt invitation to explore the depths of what it means to live a faith that transcends political and societal divisions. It's a call to embrace love, forgiveness, and hope as guiding principles in our lives, our communities, and our nation.Listen to the full interviews with each of our guests:“Executing Grace” w/Shane Claiborne"Politics of Love" w/Greg Boyd"The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory, American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism" w/Tim Alberta“The After Party: A New Direction for Christian Politics” w/Curtis Chang“The Power of Empathy and Courage in Racial Healing” w/Chuck Mingo & Troy JacksonNotable mentions and voices:David Fitch, "The Church Fails When It's on the Wrong Side of Power"Greg Garrett, "The Enduring Power of James Baldwin"Kyle Duncan, Author, "Hope Amidst Conflict"Support the showTo learn more about the show, contact our hosts, or recommend future guests, click on the links below: Website: https://www.faithfulpoliticspodcast.com/ Faithful Host: Josh@faithfulpoliticspodcast.com Political Host: Will@faithfulpoliticspodcast.com Twitter: @FaithfulPolitik Instagram: faithful_politics Facebook: FaithfulPoliticsPodcast LinkedIn: faithfulpolitics Subscribe to our Substack: https://faithfulpolitics.substack.com/

Ever heard the phrase, “Thoughts and Prayers?” Do you cringe at the sound of it? I am almost certain this expression began from a sincere place of sympathy.  But overtime, it has become a trite, empty, and meaningless cliché. Why? Because it has become a substitute for responsibility.  Today, we talk about prayer not as a substitute for responsibility, but an invitation into responsibility.  Our friend Shane Claiborne sums it up best, “If we ask God to move a mountain, God often gives us a shovel.”  

Brent Billings and Reed Dent consider a different framework for spiritual practice and explore how Reed engages his own practices.BEMA 24: Creating a SpaceGrasslands National Park — WikipediaVisiting Grasslands National Park — Brent BillingsBig Bend National Park — Wikipedia_Four Quartets_ by T. S. EliotThe Books of Scott CairnsDaily Prayer with the Corrymeela Community by Pádraig Ó TuamaPoetry Unbound PodcastMaking All Things New by Henri NouwenEat This Book by Eugene H. PetersonCommon Prayer by Shane Claiborne, Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove, and Enuma OkoroEndless Life by Scott CairnsEvery Moment Holy, Volume I by Douglas Kaine McKelveyEvery Moment Holy, Volume II by Douglas Kaine McKelveySpiritual Direction by Henri Nouwen“Introduction to Poetry” by Billy Collins from The Apple That Astonished ParisThe Wolf, the Duck, and the Mouse by Mac Barnett and Jon Klassen“Your Kids Aren't Too Old for Picture Books, and Neither Are You” by Pamela Paul — The New York Times

Oh friends, today's show is a good one. Shane Claiborne is a champion for grace and I am PUMPED to get to chat with him on what it looks like to be driven by love and concerned about life, what love requires of us when it comes to violence and hot-button political topics, and what it looks like to be a champion for life without exceptions. Shane's newest book Rethinking Life is incredibly moving and timely. I'm so grateful for a friend like Shane who makes space for conversations like this...chances to keep thinking and learning and growing together. Due to the nature of the topics we cover in this episode (gun violence, sexual abuse, abortion, etc.), this conversation may be tender to you so I wanted you to know before you listened so you could care for yourself and your heart well. And, for our #miniBFFs, this show may be a bit grown-up for their little ears. . . . .  Go to hereforyoutour.com to get your tickets to our upcoming tour this June! Want to gift a ticket to a friend? Go to anniefdowns.com/events for a printable Here For You gift ticket. . . . . Subscribe to Let's Read the Gospels with Annie F. Downs HERE. Go to https://anniefdowns.com/gospels to purchase your May Reading Plan or Let's Read the Gospels Guidebook. . . . . . Head to anniefdowns.com/books for more information and to sign up for the AFD Book of the Month. . . . . . Sign up to receive the AFD Week In Review email and ask questions to future guests! #thatsoundsfunpodcast . . . . . Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp Online Therapy: Visit betterhelp.com/THATSOUNDSFUN today to get 10% off your first month. Nutrafol: Go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code TSF to save $10 OFF your first month's subscription, plus FREE shipping on EVERY order -- this is their best offer ANYWHERE and it is only available to US customers for a limited time. Shopify: Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/soundsfun. KiwiCo: Get 50% your first month on any crate line plus free shipping at kiwico.com/THATSOUNDSFUN. Thrive Causemetics: Right now, you can get an exclusive 20% off your first order when you visit thrivecausemetics.com/TSF. . . . . . If you'd like to partner with Annie as a sponsor for the That Sounds Fun podcast, fill out our Advertise With Us form! . . . . . NYTimes bestselling Christian author, speaker, and host of the That Sounds Fun Podcast, Annie F. Downs shares with you some of her favorite things: new books, faith conversations, entertainers not to miss, and interviews with friends.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.