Football Ruined My Life

It is with deep sadness that Jon, Paul and I have to tell you all that our friend and fellow podcast host Patrick Barclay died suddenly on the morning of 12 February. All of us and no doubt many of our listeners who responded to Paddy's cheery Scottish burr over the course of 80 or so episodes will have cause to feel his loss. Out of respect we have removed this week's edition.  We are obviously talking among ourselves as to if and how the podcast can continue. For the moment we feel that a brief pause is the right approach to this deeply depressing and tragic news.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week the panel (and their producer) are bitterly divided on the contentious issue of the Nations League and its value compared to the old Home Internationals when England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland played with themselves. One side sees a desperation of the television companies and UEFA to ensure that no summer passes without an international tournament, leading to player burnout and spectator indifference. The other side sees a sensible arrangement that abolishes pointless friendlies, gives every match a purpose and ensures that the weaker sides play each other and are not just cannon fodder for the big boys. Fortunately, remote recording ensures that violence amongst members of the panel, though seemingly imminent, never requires police intervention.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Twelve yards away, the keeper can't move off his line until the ball is struck. How does anyone ever miss a penalty? Well, as we all know they do miss and frequently it's crucial in a match.  So it can be too for the award in the first place of a penalty for handball with no intent to handle by the defender and for fouls when the forward has cleverly tripped himself up but made it look like it's a deliberate foul. Plenty for Colin Shindler, Jon Holmes and Patrick Barclay to get their collective teeth into here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A change of pace for Football Ruined My Life this week. In this podcast we're looking back at football players and managers who died during 2024.  Clearly we can only deal with a handful of the many who left us last year but what follows is the choice of Jon Holmes, Paddy Barclay and Colin Shindler as they discuss the lives and careers of the football men who meant something to them and whom they wish to honour in this brief tribute. Not so much a eulogy but a celebration… so still pretty upbeat. That said, the episode ends with additional memories - of Denis Law, who died after the original episode was recorded and for whom we could not wait for an Obituary programme looking back at 2025. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The prolific goal-scoring winger Ian Storey-Moore turns 80 on the day this episode was published... and Football Ruined My Life has chosen to mark the occasion by giving him the greatest present a footballer of the 1960s and 1970s could possibly want - a guest appearance on the podcast with Paddy Barclay, Jon Holmes and Colin Shindler. A star forward in the nearly great Nottingham Forest team of the late 1960s but forced into early retirement by a bad injury shortly after his controversial transfer to Manchester United, Ian stayed in the game as a scout, particularly with Martin O'Neill during his time as manager of Aston Villa. His views on football then and now are fascinating and will entertain you as if you were actually at his birthday party. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Real centre forwards were old fashioned battering rams like Nat Lofthouse, Ted Drake of the great Arsenal side of the 1930s and Bobby Smith the rampaging leader of the Spurs double winning attack.  As football has become more skilful, they have largely been replaced by False 9s as they are now called or deep-lying centre forwards as they were in the days of Don Revie and the Hungarian Hidegkuti.  Jon Holmes, Patrick Barclay and Jon Holmes panel discuss the impact on the game of the change and surprisingly all three of them retain a nostalgic love of the centre forwards of their youth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

He's a well-known and much liked voice on Radio 4's Word of Mouth programme as well as Professor of Children's Literature at Goldsmiths, University of London.  But Michael Rosen is this week's guest on Football Ruined My Life because he is a genuine Gooner - as visitors to the Emirates Stadium can see when they observe him depicted on the famous mural next to his late son Eddie and Gunnersaurus. First introduced to the game by his father, a fan from the Herbert Chapman glory days, Michael has been a fixture at Highbury and the Emirates since the 1950s and his reminiscences are conveyed in the podcast with his trademark humour and insight. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As a New Year's gift, the panel come bearing the bulging postbag containing our listeners' emails.  Once again we can report a high standard of literacy and a comfortingly accurate recall of matches and teams from the dim recesses of all our childhoods.  One correspondent, the self-styled King Arthur, a Liverpudlian now living in Malibu California, has written enough emails to fill three editions but he is joined as ever by the reminiscences of our widely diverse (though principally over the age of fifty) regular listeners and correspondents to whet the appetite for what is to come in 2025. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Colin Shindler, Jon Holmes and Paddy Barclay wish all our listeners a very merry Christmas and we do so by recalling Christmas time matches from long ago.  With far less choice on offer, both on television and on the dining room table, football at Christmas provided a fabulous feast of entertainment, the climax to which came on Boxing Day in 1963 when to everyone's astonishment a record number of 66 goals were scored in the 10 First Division fixtures alone.  Has the mass globalisation of the modern game in recent years had any impact on the distinctive Englishness of Yuletide matches? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Colin Shindler, Patrick Barclay and Jon Holmes examine the value of utility players – the player who could fill in anywhere on the pitch from right back to outside left.  There is a marked tendency by current managers to favour specialisation over utility yet we all remember, usually with affection, those players who could “do a job” anywhere on the pitch – the perfect player to bring on in the days when there was only one substitute.  The panel pays tribute to the Paul Madeleys of the game and explore the reasons for their gradual disappearance from the game. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Colin Shindler, Paddy Barclay and Jon Holmes discuss the phenomenon of Brits Abroad, those British footballers who made the transition to the sun, sangria and shenanigans of playing for foreign teams.  Jon of course became a one-man Lunn PolyTravel Agency for his clients in the 1980s but the phenomenon of British footballers travelling to foreign climes began early in the postwar years with the Bogata bandits.  With the exception of John Charles and Gerry Hitchens, English exports to European clubs in the 1950s and 1960s were generally not a great success.  But after Kevin Keegan went to SV Hamburg in 1977 it all began to change until the arrival of the Premier League's wealth reversed the direction of the flow of traffic across the Channel. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

… is the word frequently given to goals scored, usually from outside the penalty box, like drawings in a Roy of the Rovers cartoon that bring the crowd to a fever pitch of excitement.  Unless of course the goal has been scored by the opposition.  In which case the spectacular goal will be suffered in a mute and somewhat resentful silence, one in which the unfairness of Life in general and the existence of God in particular is contemplated.  Jon Holmes, Paddy Barclay and Colin Shindler discuss whether there are fewer screamers about these days than in the days of their youth and if so why that should be the case. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It was the year of the Sky revolution in football but for Jon Holmes it was also the end of Gary Lineker's career in England as he prepared to move to Japan and ultimately into the television studio.  Leeds United won the last First Division and their manager Howard Wilkinson was the last English manager to win the championship.  It was the year that saw an unfancied Denmark team win the Euros and John Major return to Downing Street by beating Neil Kinnock.  It was a year that provided Paddy Barclay, Colin Shindler and Jon Holmes with much to discuss.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Paddy Barclay, Jon Holmes and Colin Shindler talk about their favourite match and, to help them to do so, each of them invites as a guest on the podcast a player who took part in that match.  If we could all take 8 matches to a desert island populated only by Roy Plomley and at some point you would be asked: “If seven of your matches were washed away which one match would you save from the waves?”  Today the panel attempts to answer that question.  Although, inevitably each of the games are won respectively by Dundee, Leicester City and Manchester City, the choice of games might surprise. The welcome appearance of Gary Lineker on this episode probably doesn't.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whatever happened to outside rights and outside lefts?  You remember those speedy tricky wingers who beat their full backs on the outside, got to the dead ball line and centred so that their centre forward could charge at the ball and force it into the net.  The men ploughing those lonely furrows seem to have disappeared.  Why has this happened and what has replaced them?  Paddy Barclay, Jon Holmes and Colin Shindler puzzle it out. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why don't great players automatically make great managers?  Why did Bobby Charlton fail so disastrously at Preston when Kenny Dalglish succeeded so triumphantly at Liverpool as Johan Cruyff did at Barcelona?  Jose Mourinho and Arsene Wenger had no careers at all as players but turned out to be great managers, Steven Gerard and Frank Lampard were great players but not great managers.  Is there a pattern to this?  The panel try to find the link between success on the pitch and in the dugout. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David Peace, the author of The Damned United, joins Jon Holmes, Patrick Barclay and Colin Shindler to talk about his latest novel.  Munichs, details the story of Manchester United from 6 February 1958, the day of the plane crash that killed 23 people (including eight players) to the team's appearance in the Cup Final in May 1958.  He talks about what a novel can do to intensify the drama of that tragedy and his description of the dark cloud of despair that descended on football and the country, as well as the city of Manchester.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week the Paddy Barclay, Jon Holmes and Colin Shindler ask each other how the Football Pyramid has changed over our lifetimes of watching the game.  Our first memories were of football in the mid to late 1950s when life was bounded by the First and Second Divisions and the Third Divisions North and South.  Of course, there was no Premier League but more crucially to lose Football League status was to consign your town and your community, as well as your club, to Stygian gloom.  Which is why we are delighted that at least Jon can explain the intricacies of the farce known as re-election. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The use of substitutes began in the English Football League at the start of the 1965-66 season.  After years of the Wembley “hoodoo” it was initially a simple system of ensuring that matches were not spoiled by 10 men playing against 11 because of a bad injury.  From that sensible position in 1965 we seem to have arrived at a situation today when an entire second team is sitting on the bench waiting to come on.  Does anyone think that has been a change for the better?  Jon Holmes, Paddy Barclay and Colin Shindler discuss. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is football as seen through the eyes of an Arsenal supporter, living and working in Washington DC.  Frank Foer, a staff writer at The Atlantic and a former editor of The New Republic, is the author of the much respected book “How Football Explains the World”.  It's fascinating to hear the views of a man who genuinely understands and enthuses over English football but sees it with a very different pair of eyes.  With Frank Foer joining Colin Shindler, Paddy Barclay and Jon Holmes, we present two nations which in this case are united by a common language… that of football - or soccer as they call it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the days of our fondly remembered youth which we can still see as it becomes ever smaller in the rear-view mirror of life, football matches kicked off at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon.  And part of the joy of the experience was what we did beforehand, how we met our friends, how we got to the ground, perhaps even what we wore in the false expectation that it would help our club to win.  From Dundee through Manchester to Leicester, Paddy Barclay, Colin Shindler and Jon Holmes recognise that they had many elements in common but there were variations due to family circumstances.  We expect that everyone will have their own memories of their pre- and post-match rituals.  Warning: References are made to alcohol. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week the Paddy Barclay, Jon Holmes and Colin Shindler ask each other how the Football Pyramid has changed over our lifetimes of watching the game.  Our first memories were of football in the mid to late 1950s when life was bounded by the First and Second Divisions and the Third Divisions North and South.  Of course, there was no Premier League but more crucially to lose Football League status was to consign your town and your community, as well as your club, to Stygian gloom.  Which is why we are delighted that at least Jon can explain the intricacies of the farce known as re-election. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There are two distinct variations on the theme of Number 2s.  The first is that he is the one who sits next to the manager when he is going berserk, berating the fourth official and kicking water bottles.  That number 2 is there to calm him down and offer sage advice in moments of extreme tension.  However, the other number 2 is the man who himself goes berserk while his boss maintains a forced calm as the number 2 rages.  Jon Holmes, Paddy Barclay and Colin Shindler consider the pairing of Murphy and Busby, Taylor and Clough, Allison and Mercer, Howe and Mee - who all offer fascinating insights into the art of football management. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's been coming, hasn't it? We all know that the relationship between Jon Holmes and Gary Lineker started about 45 years ago and we've heard many stories related by Jon about his most famous client. However here is Gary talking about himself, his career as a player and his transition into broadcasting. Together with with Colin Shindler, Paddy Barclay (and of course, Jon Holmes), here his views on the game are presented uncensored by any broadcasting or publishing empire. Listen and see if any of them surprise you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We grew up with the old WM formation. Brazil won the World Cup with 4-2-4 and Alf Ramsey did the same thing with what was called the Wingless Wonders, in other words 4-3-3.  After that, another “forward” was withdrawn into midfield and 4-4-2 became the standard for most teams for many years but now we have a confusing muddle of numbers, including 3-5-2, 4-2-2-2 and 4-1-4-1.  The panel examine how these changes in formations evolved and how successful they have been for the coaches, managers and clubs that have employed them. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We know that cheating isn't a new phenomenon.  It's been in sport ever since the Greeks failed to provide any drug testing during the Olympic Games of 776 BC – so there's no reason why football should be any different.  In the 1950s and 1960s, promising youngsters' parents were allegedly bribed with washing machines and other “luxury” goods by clubs desperate for their offspring's signature.  The amounts of money sloshing around the game these days has made the incentive to cheat a constant threat, despite the tightening of legislation designed to prevent it.  On the field, the diving for penalties and the feigning of injuries to get an opponent sent off has also got worse despite the increased ability of television cameras to highlight such cheating.  The panel discuss whether cheating in football can ever be eradicated.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

He's best known still as the host of Jon Holmes' supreme television creation the game show ‘They Think It's All Over' in which his most famous clients combined with comedians to play such legendary games as “Feel the Sportsman”.  He's a talented comedian and writer but at heart Nick Hancock would always describe himself first and foremost as a Stoke City supporter.  In this episode Nick tells of his devotion to the club and in particular of his grandfather who took him to matches but could never find where he'd left the car after it was finished. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, the panel looks at old fashioned Bob Lord style Chairmen of football clubs as against the current fashion for billionaire owners from oil rich nation states or American hedge fund managers. Bob Lord at Burnley and Joe Mears at Chelsea, Louis Edwards at Manchester United and the Hill Woods of Arsenal were all rich men but their wealth did not compare to that of the current owners of Premier League clubs.  When we talked about the game in the 1960s and 1970s we talked about players and managers, rarely about Chairmen and never about boards of shadowy directors. Colin Shindler, Patrick Barclay and former Leicester Chairman Jon Holmes discuss the impact on the game of this shift from chairmen to owners. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Now, as most of our listeners will know, there was a time when there was no such thing as the Transfer Window and, as all of our listeners know, before 1961 players couldn't earn more than the maximum wage which at the moment of its abolition that year stood at £20 a week. Therefore there was no need for a player to agitate for a move to a bigger club for financial gain because there wouldn't be any - at least within British football and who wanted to go and live in what we all called “abroad” or “on the Continent”. And so there was no need for agents. However, in the 1990s there was a much bigger shock to the cosy world of transfers when the Bosman ruling stood the world of football on its head and led to today's Alice in Wonderland world of transfers. The panel as ever ask each other "Was it it better then or is it better now?" Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

After our computer-enforced summer break Colin Shindler, Jon Holmes and Patrick Barclay return next week on Friday 9th August - just as the new football season kicks off. If you've not already done so, subscribe now.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Good morning listeners - here's a message from Colin Shindler. We'll be returning with the podcast in time for the new season at the beginning of August. Enjoy your summer holidays - see you in a few months. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the days when the cricket season finished at the end of August and did not begin again until the first week in May it was perfectly possible to be a professional sportsman who played both games. Now it would be impossible to find a footballer who also played county cricket let alone Test cricket. Digging back, as ever, into the days of our youth, however, we can easily find plenty of them. Joining the regular panel, Colin Shindler, Jon Holmes and Patrick Barclay is Michael Henderson, formerly Cricket Correspondent of the Daily Telegraph and a man who has written perceptively and entertainingly on both football and cricket for many publications.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Football Association Challenge Cup is the oldest and most prestigious cup competition in the world, having been in existence since 1871. Winning the Cup for many of us was actually more highly valued than winning the First Division championship which had none of the excitement and charisma of walking up the steps to the Royal Box and holding up that most prized trophy.  The panel examines the reasons for the decline in importance of the FA Cup and compares Cup Final day now to the Cup Finals of their youth – with predictable results. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The panel turn their forensic eyes on the question of football tactics and, with a respectful nod to one of the great Monty Python sketches, their wider reference to the world of philosophy. In particular this edition sets the supporters of the philosophy of Route One against the supporters of playing out from the back or Tiki Taki as it is sometimes known.  The main point at issue is the alleged superiority of either the long ball tactics favoured by Stan Cullis's Wolves, Graham Taylor's Watford and Harry Bassett's Wimbledon as opposed to the subtler arts of passing out from the back as perfected by Pep Guardiola.  But if your team is winning, does it really matter what tactics they employ to do so? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There used to be such a thing as a Reserve team which we watched if we couldn't afford to travel to watch our team away from home. Young players started in the A and B sides and made their way up from the B to the A team until they reached the Reserves. The Reserves contained a sprinkling of first team players coming back from injury and embittered old pros who deeply resented the humiliation of playing in the Central League or the Football Combination. As such spectators got to see old favourites and possible new stars. But the Reserves are gone now, like our youth, too soon. Does the panel regret the passing of this old tradition or does its replacement by squads of 25 and endless substitutions during a match mean a better deal for football? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Everton may well have saved themselves yet again from The Drop and at the same time finished Liverpool's chances of a last Premier League title for Jurgen Klopp but the history of a once proud and famous club over the last thirty years or so has been painful for their fans.  One lifelong supporter is Jimmy Mulville, co-founder and manager of Hat Trick Productions and therefore responsible for shows such as Have I Got News For You and Father Ted.  In this podcast he shares with the panel the agony and ecstasy of supporting Everton stretching back to the 1950s and including his visit with his father and grandfather to see the famous FA Cup Final win of 1966, a time when the City of Liverpool seemed to rule the cultural world.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, the panel is talking about the maverick.  Not the old tv series of the same name starring James Garner but the flair players who didn't necessarily fit into the team ethic.  Think Stan Bowles, Frank Worthington, Charlie George, Tony Currie and Rodney Marsh to name but five.  How weird that they were all playing at the end of the 1960s and throughout the 1970s.  Why were there so many mavericks then?  Were there none before and none since then?  The Brains Trust scratches its collective head and suggests some possible answers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the second of our occasional podcasts about specific years, we are looking at 1974 when Jon Holmes, Paddy Barclay and Colin Shindler were all in their early, mid or medium late 20s. It's the year that began with power shortages due to a miners' strike and the imposition of the three day week. Inflation was running at nearly 18% and of course ABBA won the Eurovision Song Contest. In football, Leeds won the League and Liverpool won the Cup after which both their managers left. Brian Clough lasted just 44 days as manager of Leeds United and Harold Wilson won two general elections in the same year but for Colin, the greatest moment of that momentous year was being at Old Trafford to watch Denis Law backheel Manchester United into the Second Division. What were your memories of 1974? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For our 50th edition, we've cooked up a very special episode – not only have we taken to the road (to the very farthest corner of East Anglia) but we've sourced the author of the Complete Illustrated Cookery Course.  The panel is extremely well fed for their trouble by one of the owners of Norwich City, who is the only football director to publish over 1400 mouth-watering recipes.  For a thoroughly satisfying gluten free edition of Football Ruined My Life try the new improved Delia Smith episode.  Here's one we made earlier with lots of delicious chocolate covered football chat. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the episode about those big lads with heads squashed flat and brains curdled into early onset dementia by the constant heading of old fashioned leather footballs that weighed the same as a cannonball after it had been soaked by rain and coated in mud.  From the time that Herbert Chapman withdrew the middle of the half backs to play between the two full backs we always recognised the centre half as the bulwark of the defence.  Paddy Barclay, Jon Holmes and Colin Shindler discuss the way in which these immobile centre halves became more sophisticated until we got the emergence of the skilful and mobile central defender who can now attack and defend with equal facility. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Easter special podcast sees the Football Ruined My Life panel fielding another round of questions, observations and suggestions from their listeners. Listeners who are quick to seize their own chance to comment on yesterday's football and how it evokes such strong memories of their younger days as supporters. The letters are by turn critical, laudatory, amusing and perceptive. The panellists in turn are quick to proffer thanks to the writers, even those who take pleasure in correcting their fallible memories, and gratitude for their suggestions for future podcasts.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We are joined this week by Baron Grade of Yarmouth, previously Michael Grade, who has, at various times, been Controller of BBC1, Chairman of ITV and Chief Executive of Channel 4.  However for all the company directorships and his elevation to the House of Lords we meet on equal footing as football fans because his admirably steadfast passion down the years has been for Charlton Athletic FC.  Amongst a host of amusing and revealing anecdotes, he tells us about how he orchestrated the infamous Snatch of the Day when clever little ITV under his skilful guidance nipped the ball off the giant lumbering centre half that was the BBC.  It's hard to imagine anyone better qualified than Michael to talk about football and television. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The North East of England has traditionally been referred to as "the hotbed of soccer".  Yet compared to teams from Lancashire for example, Newcastle United, Sunderland and Middlesbrough have won very little in the way of trophies for decades.  Middlesbrough won the League Cup in 2004, Sunderland won the FA Cup in 1973 and Newcastle won the Inter Cities Fairs Cup in 1969.  Since then... nothing. Why then do football writers and supporters have such a respect for those teams? Colin Shindler, Jon Holmes and Paddy Barclay explore what's so special about football in the North East. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

He was the third in the distinguished line of BBC Chief Football Correspondents and the first not be called Brian (as in Moore and Bryon Butler). His attractive voice gave us fluent commentaries from football grounds all over the world. Within months of doing his first commentary he was looking at 39 dead bodies in the Heysel Stadium. Mike Ingham joins Colin Shindler, Jon Holmes and Paddy Barclay for a look at the football he watched on our behalf and told us about in such clear and concise phrases. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

He has frequently been referred to as “the bastard in the black”. One person with a whistle can arouse more enmity than the worst tackle on a football field. We feel that their only purpose is to give decisions in our favour. If they give a decision or worse a goal against us they are obviously stupid, blind and arguably corrupt. Now of course we have VAR, so we don't have to worry about the referee's decisions on the field any more. Or do we? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jon Holmes, Paddy Barclay and Colin Shindler explore the impact of nature and nurture on footballers from the same family.  Is it genetic inheritance or environmental factors that accounts for the remarkable number of fraternal and father-son relationships in football over the decades?  From the famous Charltons to the Schmeichels, from the forgotten Rowley brothers to the Redknapps, the Cloughs and the Summerbees the numerous examples of this fascinating phenomenon sends the conversation far and wide.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jon Holmes, Paddy Barclay and Colin Shindler meet Gordon Milne who had a fascinating and long career in football.  He was a player with Tom Finney at Preston, a key part of Bill Shankly's first great Liverpool side and later manager of Jimmy Hill's Coventry City and Jon's beloved Leicester before moving abroad and winning three successive league titles for Besiktas in Turkey.  Now approaching his 87th birthday Gordon Milne has total recall of that career and tells stories of players and clubs that have never been heard before.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

West Ham won the Cup in 1964, the European Cup Winners Cup in 1965 and, according to Alf Garnett, the World Cup in 1966. They were a stylish, attractive and at the time a victorious team in those mid 1960s but they never kicked on and those three World Cup heroes eventually left Upton Park in a disappointing anti-climax, not having won anything else at club level. For years though they were everyone's second favourite team. Colin Shindler, Jon Holmes and Patrick Barclay try to explain that anomaly and whether in the Premier League era the old West Ham traditions are still visible. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Colin and Paddy attempt to make Jon feel better about the Midlands trophy desert. Looking at the Football League's checkered history over the 135 years of its existence you can't but be aware that the Midlands hasn't pulled its weight.  Half of the founder members of the Football League were Midlands clubs so there seems to be no logical reason why the whole of the Midlands has won so much less than those clubs from the one county of Lancashire.  Jon attempts a spirited defence of his homeland. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Colin Shindler, Jon Holmes and Patrick Barclay wonder whether the concept of sportsmanship has vanished from the game. We all remember that famous photograph of Bobby Moore and Pele exchanging sweat soaked shirts after their titanic struggle in Guadalajara in the 1970 World Cup group match. It was iconic because it symbolised and personified the concept. But is that sort of behaviour still around in today's world of football? Or are the three septuagenarians simply on an epic journey of nostalgia for the land of lost content where sportsmen behaved with a certain nobility?    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Back in the dim and distant past of our youth, the coverage of football on television was minimal and we instinctively turned to local and national newspapers for the latest information and analysis on the game and our favourite club. In subsequent years, and particularly since the emergence of Sky Sports in 1992, we have all seen the decline of the print journalist and the seemingly unstoppable rise of the tv pundit. Patrick Barclay bemoans the decline, Jon Holmes revels in the power of TV and Colin Shindler tries to keep control of the game without recourse to VAR. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices