The Other Side of the Church

According to professor and author Dr. Matthew Vos, there is no such thing as a stranger or a scapegoat, or at least there shouldn't be. On this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast Lathan talks with the sociology professor all about his new book and the heart behind it. Together the two define who the strangers and scapegoats in our society are, practical ways to love these people on the margins, and talk about the lessons Matthew has learned from raising sheep in Georgia. Jesus invited everyone in, and we're called to do the same. Don't miss this episode! Episode Timeline: [0:19] The heart behind Strangers and Scapegoats [2:44] Clearing the Confusion: Who is the stranger and who is the scapegoat? [6:53] Jesus as the great deconstructionist [11:09] What Matthew has learned from raising sheep [15:37] Practical ways to love the strangers and scapegoats [21:20] Matthew's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: Strangers and Scapegoats: Extending God's Welcome to Those on the Margins Social: Connect with Dr. Matthew Vos through Covenant College's website or by friending him on Facebook © 2022 | The Other Side of the ChurchHost: Lathan CraftProduced by: David Marks Media

Pastor Carolyn Moore envisions a world where everyone God has called to ministry is working to further the Kingdom, including women. During this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church Lathan gets the chance to sit down with Carolyn to talk all things women in church leadership, inspired by her new book, When Women Lead. Throughout their conversation Lathan and Carolyn hit on gender roles in ministry, how churches can empower women in leadership, and what actually happens when women are in leadership. An important and relevant conversation, Carolyn leaves listeners with the hope that when women are unleashed in the way God intended it will lead not to a world of equality, but rather to a world of true redemption. Episode Timeline: [0:35] What led Carolyn to write When Women Lead [5:22] Clearing the Confusion: Gender roles in ministry [7:41] What happens when women lead [12:20] Carolyn's internal struggle in church planting[17:34] Carolyn's word for women who have left the church [20:20] How churches can empower women in leadership [22:35] Carolyn's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: When Women Lead: Embrace your Authority, Move Beyond Barriers, and Find Joy in Leading Others Mosaic Church The Art of Holiness podcast Social: Read Carolyn's blog at theartofholiness.com and find her other books at Seedbed.com. © 2022 | The Other Side of the ChurchHost: Lathan CraftProduced by: David Marks Media

Austin Wofford believes emerging adults are hungry for a new way to do church. On this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church Lathan and Austin talk about just that: how to do church in a way that connects with individuals who are increasingly disenchanted with traditional church, and what it looks like to build community outside of a 60-minute worship service. During their conversation Austin and Lathan hit on what success in church truly looks like, Austin's passion for the house church movement, and the hope for renewal this next generation holds. Episode Timeline: [0:42] Austin's passion for what church could be [7:05] Clearing the Confusion: What success in church looks like [12:55] Why the church isn't creating community [16:16] The response to the house church movement [20:21] House church gatherings [21:53] Austin's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: Forged: Young Adults and the Renewal of the Church Social: Connect with Austin at arisechurches.com or by following Arise Church on Instagram © 2022 | The Other Side of the ChurchHost: Lathan CraftProduced by: David Marks Media

Former law enforcement officer turned author and coach Jamie Winship wants you to know that you don't have to live in fear. After experiencing the evil of the world firsthand as a police officer, Jamie made it his life's goal to help individuals move from fear to fearlessness. On this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church, Lathan talks with Jamie about how growing up in racially divided metro D.C. shaped Jamie's outlook on the world, the difference between being a law enforcer and a server and protector, and why Christians are so often fearful. If you're ready to exchange the lies the world tells us for God's truth, don't miss this conversation! Episode Timeline: [0:25] Jamie's life in metro D.C. [3:57] Clearing the Confusion: the difference between a law enforcer and a server and protector [8:46] Stories of intimacy with the Spirit [15:36] Identity exchange and leaving the police force [21:24] Why Christians are often fearful [27:44] Jamie's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: Living Fearless: Exchanging the Lies of the World for the Liberating Truth of God Social: Learn more about Jamie and connect with him on identityexchange.com. © 2022 | The Other Side of the ChurchHost: Lathan CraftProduced by: David Marks Media

Mandy Hale thought life as she knew it was over in 2020. In addition to the COVID-19 pandemic, Mandy's parents were also both diagnosed with cancer late that summer. But on this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church, the New York Times bestselling author shares how 2020 wasn't in fact the end of life as she knew it, but instead a chance to redefine what happiness and faith looked like in the midst of adverse circumstances. During their conversation Lathan and Mandy dig in to the heart behind Mandy's new book, Turn Toward the Sun, talk about what it looks like to relearn our relationship with God after pain, and hit on why sunflowers are so significant to Mandy's life and faith journey. Episode Timeline: [0:22] The heart behind Mandy's book [2:00] Why 2020 was the worst year of Mandy's life [5:08] How Mandy walked with her parents through their cancer journeys  [12:13] What July 2022 Mandy would say to July 2020 Mandy [13:07] Relearning God after pain [16:18] Mandy on singleness [21:27] The significance of sunflowers[28:46] Mandy's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: Turn Toward the Sun: Releasing What If and Embracing What Is Social: Connect with Mandy through her website or follow her on Instagram at @thesinglewoman© 2022 | The Other Side of the ChurchHost: Lathan CraftProduced by: David Marks Media

Most of us have experienced some form of trauma in our lives, but not all of us have taken the time to name that event or events as trauma. In their book, Healing What's Hidden, speakers and trauma experts Evan and Jenny Owens seek to help readers define their trauma and overcome those often invisible wounds. During this episode of The Other Side of the Church, Lathan and the Owens' dig in to why it's often hard for people in the church to talk about their traumas, explore the heart behind the Owens' program, Reboot Recovery, and brainstorm how to become a person others feel safe sharing their scars with. This is an important and timely conversation—don't miss it! Episode Timeline: [0:24] Defining trauma [1:54] What inspired the Owens' to write about invisible wounds [3:38] Bringing that invisible wound into the light [5:13] Why it's hard for people in church to talk about their traumas [6:54] Heartbeat behind Reboot Recovery [9:44] Creating a safe space for the outcast [12:20] Walking alongside someone with wounds [15:18] Becoming a safe person yourself [18:06] The Owens' Hope Hollers Resources Mentioned: Healing What's Hidden: Practical Steps to Overcoming Trauma Reboot Recovery Overcome Academy Social:Connect with Evan and Jenny through their website © 2022 | The Other Side of the ChurchHost: Lathan CraftProduced by: David Marks Media

On this month's kickoff episode for the theme of being truly present, Lathan invites pastor and author Jeanne Stevens to The Other Side of the Church podcast to talk about the heart behind her book, What's Here Now. Jeanne's book is all about being present in what God has for each of us right now, instead of rehashing the past or rehearsing the future. Together Lathan and Jeanne dive into why God wants us as we are, some key indicators that we're rehearsing the future, and how to find God when He feels distant in the present. This is such a powerful and relevant episode, no matter where you're at in life right now. Episode Timeline: [0:38] The inspiration behind What's Here Now [3:25] God wants you as you are [6:31] Jeanne's word for the person who wants to escape the present [10:18] Indicators that we're rehearsing the future [14:41] What Jeanne has learned about God since writing her book [20:27] Finding God if He feels distant in the present [29:12] Jeanne's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: What's Here Now: How to Stop Rehashing the Past and Rehearsing the Future—And Start Receiving the Present Soul City Church Social: Connect with Jeanne on her website and follow her on Instagram © 2022 | The Other Side of the ChurchHost: Lathan CraftProduced by: David Marks Media

It's November, which means we're approaching the holiday season, specifically Thanksgiving. With Thanksgiving, and the holidays in general, so many emotions come up—good, bad, or otherwise. But this month on TOSOTC podcast, we're talking about what it means to be truly present, intentionally present. Because there's a difference between just being there and actually being present. In his conversations with this month's guests, Lathan will explore this theme—excavating what it means to be present wherever you are, even if that place isn't your picture-perfect ideal right at this moment. We'll see you on the other side of the church, beloved!  November Guests: JeAnne Stevens (November 9th) Evan and Jenny Owens (November 16th) Mandy Hale (November 23rd) Jamie Winship (November 30th) © 2022 | The Other Side of the ChurchHost: Lathan CraftProduced by: David Marks Media

Author, speaker, and mom of three boys, Becky Keife wants you to know you are the mom for the job, even when you don't feel like that's true. On this final episode of October's conversations on family and parenting, Lathan sits down with Becky as she tells her story of raising three young boys, realizing God doesn't make mistakes when it comes to choosing us to parent our kids, and the things Becky's learned about God through being a mom. This episode is sure to be an encouragement to you—whether you're a mom, dad, or simply want to become a parent someday. Don't miss out on Becky's words for you! Episode Timeline: [0:50] Becky's motherhood story [4:04] Coming to realize God doesn't make mistakes [9:25] How Becky's childhood shaped her motherhood [11:55] When your child says you're not enough [15:12] Why motherhood is such a comparison game [18:49] Becky's word for her past mom-self [20:27] What Becky's learned about God through motherhood [22:21] Becky's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: Becky's website No Better Mom for the Job: Parenting with Confidence (Even When You Don't Feel Cut Out For It) (In)Courage Social: Stay updated and connect with Becky on Instagram © 2022 | The Other Side of the ChurchHost: Lathan CraftProduced by: David Marks Media

Jodi Mockabee is back for pt. 2 of her conversation with Lathan, this time getting honest and opening up about the sexual abuse scandal that rocked her church, and in turn, her family's life. What does a whole and healthy family look like when circumstances aren't always whole and healthy? That's the question Jodi wrestles with in this part of her conversation with Lathan—talking through her healing process, her perception of church leaders growing up, and how to create a healthy sexual culture in the home. No one's life and family are picture-perfect, and Jodi is a testament to that. But where people fail us, God's grace still rings true. Don't miss this raw and insightful conversation, beloved. Episode Timeline: [1:51] How the events of September 2020 changed Jodi and her family [8:00] Jodi's perception of church leadership growing up [11:44] The healing process [18:46] Creating a healthy sexual culture in the home [23:52] Jodi's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: The Whole and Healthy Family: Helping your kids thrive in mind, body, and spirit Social: Connect with Jodi through her website, or follow her on Instagram © 2022 | The Other Side of the ChurchHost: Lathan CraftProduced by: David Marks Media

This is a special week over at TOSOTC podcast where we have not one, but two episodes dropping with author, influencer, and homeschool mom Jodi Mockabee! Jodi's book, The Whole and Healthy Family, recently released, and in pt. 1 of their conversation Lathan and Jodi talk through what a whole and healthy family actually looks like. From nurturing your child's unique gifts and personality at any age to homeschooling kids—the two cover it all. Don't miss this positive and hope-filled conversation about not only what it looks like to be a healthy parent, but also a whole and healthy family. Episode Timeline: [0:35] What led Jodi to write The Whole and Healthy Family [3:58] Jodi's nurturing process with each of her kids [8:22] How to start uniquely nurturing your child no matter their age [11:42] Discovering a newborn [13:20] Helping twins feel like individuals  [18:06] Homeschooling kids [25:38] Satisfying individual desires outside of being a parent [30:05] Clearing the Confusion: What a whole and healthy family actually looks like Resources Mentioned: The Whole and Healthy Family: Helping your kids thrive in mind, body, and spiritSocial: Connect with Jodi through her website, or follow her on Instagram © 2022 | The Other Side of the ChurchHost: Lathan CraftProduced by: David Marks Media

Journalist, author, and parent Bekah McNeel wants you to know that you can raise kids who have faith in God, even when the church has personally let you down. On this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast Lathan invites Bekah on to talk all things parenting in today's climate of church deconstruction and coming to grips with our religious scars. It's a candid conversation where Bekah shares openly about how the church hurt her, raising daughters with values but without the constraints of purity culture, and finding a balance in how kids relate to church. If you've ever questioned your own faith and wondered how that will someday or does already affect your kids, this episode is for you!  Episode Timeline: [0:30] Why Bekah wrote Bringing Up Kids When the Church Lets You Down [4:53] Bekah's church blowup story [12:03] Bekah's biggest parenting fear [15:37] Finding balance with how kids relate to church [23:43] Bekah's word to parents scarred by the church [27:45] Raising daughters with values as opposed to legalistic views [32:57] Bekah's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: Bringing Up Kids When the Church Lets You DownSocial: Connect with Bekah through her website, bekahmcneel.com. © 2022 | The Other Side of the ChurchHost: Lathan CraftProduced by: David Marks Media

Prolific author Mary DeMuth's newest book, Love, Pray, Listen is all about how to parent adult children, and as we navigate an increasingly post-Christian world, it's a message many of us— parents and children alike—need to hear. On this first episode of October's conversations surrounding all things family and parenting, Lathan talks to Mary about the challenges and joys of being a parent to adult children, the difference between a hovering mom and an emancipating mom, and Mary's word for parents whose children are incarcerated or in coffins. This is a hope-filled episode for parents in every stage of the game, and a promise that no matter who your children are today—if you continue to walk with them through everything life throws their way—the best really is yet to come.  Episode Timeline: [0:36] Heart behind Love, Pray, Listen [1:55] Clearing the Confusion: Difference between a hovering mom and an emancipating mom[4:04] Mary's transition to parenting adult kids [6:18] Mary's word to parents whose kids reject Christianity  [8:38] How Mary's view of the prodigal son story has changed since becoming a parent [10:40] Navigating conversations of gender and sexual identity with adult children [13:04] 1 Corinthians 13 [15:38] What Mary with adult kids would tell Mary with infants [17:23] For parents of children who are incarcerated or in coffins [20:33] Mary's Hope Holler  [21:55] How Mary has found personal healing in parenting Resources Mentioned: Love, Pray, Listen: Parenting your wayward adult kids with joy Building the Christian Family You Never Had Social: Connect with Mary on her website or through Instagram 

October at The Other Side of the Church podcast is all about family, specifically parenting, and the many different aspects of that role and calling. Throughout the month Lathan will talk with several authors and speakers about their perspectives on family—what makes family important, how to have hope when family seems to be breaking down, what to do when family doesn't look like you thought it would, and so much more. Whether you're a parent yet or not, you're part of some sort of family, and these conversations are sure to meet you right where you are. Pull up a seat at the table, beloved, and get ready for October at TOSOTC! October Guests: Mary DeMuth (October 12th) Bekah McNeel (October 19th) Jodi Mockabee pt. 1 and pt. 2 (October 26th) Becky Keife (October 31st) 

Trigger Warning: This episode heavily centers on discussions of suicide, depression, and anxiety. Sarah Robinson knows what it feels like to want to die. And that's exactly what inspired her to write the blog post that changed her life: I love Jesus, but I want to die. The post went viral and later turned into Sarah's book of the same name, making her one of today's leading voices on depression and suicide in the Christian community. On this last episode of Suicide Prevention month, Lathan sits down with Sarah as she shares her story. Sarah and Lathan have a mutual friend in the late Steve Austin, and together they talk about his life, how the church can act more like Jesus when it comes to suicide, being a friend to those struggling, and how to be strategic about self-care, especially as a parent. This has been a powerful month of conversations from people who have been on the front lines of the fight against suicide—make sure to give Sarah's episode a listen. Episode Timeline: [0:34] The story behind I Love Jesus, But I Want To Die [6:05] Clearing the Confusion: Suicide is selfish [10:51] Sarah's friendship with Steve Austin [16:28] The suicide process [21:30] How the church can act more like Jesus when it comes to suicide [27:54] Sarah's word for the person who feels like their pain isn't enough [37:10] Being a friend to those struggling with suicide [48:38] Raising a child in today's world and being strategic about self care [56:36] Sarah's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: I Love Jesus, But I Want To Die: Finding hope in the darkness of depression I Love Jesus, but I Want to Die blog post Social: Connect with Sarah on her website, BeautifulBetween.com 

Trigger Warning: This episode heavily centers on discussions of suicide, depression, and anxiety. In this second week of diving into September's theme of suicide prevention and awareness, Lathan invites arist and author Scott Erickson onto the show to talk about his own mental health battles. Scott was a good friend of Steve Austin's, and together Scott and Lathan listen to clips from Steve's interview with Lathan to unpack their own understanding of the “psych ward church” and how we can bring that recovery group mentality to the American church today. Throughout the episode the two talk about the practices Scott employs to combat those feelings of depression and anxiety, why we need to stop telling those who deal with suicidal ideations that they just need to “do the work,” and how we can practically minister to those suffering from depression. Scott ends the episode with a hopeful word for all those thinking about taking their own life. Wherever you're at or wherever you've been, this raw and honest conversation will undoubtedly minister to you—don't miss it. Episode Timeline: [1:14] Clearing the Confusion: Why people kill themselves [8:40] Scott's reaction to Steve's vision of the psych ward church [12:07] Leading the recovery group mentality in the American church [18:20] Stopping the “you do the work” mantra [26:05] How to minister to people dealing with depression [38:41] Scott's Hope Holler [45:19] Scott's “on my way” for the person thinking about taking their life Resources Mentioned: From Pastor to Psych Ward Say Yes: Discover the surprising life beyond the death of a dream Say Yes shows Lost Connections: Why you're depressed and how to find hope Social: Follow Scott on Instagram at @scottthepainter 

Trigger Warning: Since the time of recording this interview, Steve Austin has died by suicide. This episode heavily centers on suicide, depression, and anxiety. The late Steve Austin was a former pastor and author open about his struggles with depression and suicidal ideations. In this conversation with Lathan, recorded before his passing in the summer of 2021, Steve shares openly about his suicide attempt in 2012, his psych ward experience, and how to make our churches safe spaces for congregants and pastors alike who battle depression and anxiety. This episode is a heavier one, but it points to Steve's belief that depression can affect us all, even those we put up on pedestals, like pastors. Lathan and Steve's conversation ends with Steve's Hope Holler—a reminder to us all that even in the midst of overwhelming darkness hope can always be found. Episode Timeline: [0:20] Steve's background as a pastor [2:20] From Pastor to Psych Ward [10:25] Clearing the Confusion: Pastor depression [13:20] How a congregant can respond to a depressed pastor [15:10] Steve's psych ward experience [19:40] Making your church a safe place  [24:11] Helping those struggling with depression and anxiety [29:55] Steve's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: Steve's website Catching Your Breath: The sacred journey from chaos to calm From Pastor to Psych Ward 

September is National Suicide Prevention Month, and with that in mind Lathan sets the table for this month's episodes of TOSOTC podcast. Suicide is a heavy reality, and one, tragically, many of us can relate to. Lathan's good friend, the late Steve Austin died by suicide last summer, and it's with his loss in mind that Lathan will be centering September's conversations around suicide prevention and what we can do about it. Over a year ago, this podcast was supposed to launch with Lathan and Steve's conversation, but that changed with Steve's death. Lathan has been holding on to that interview until now, and next week he'll release it as a way to honor Steve. The other episodes this month come from Steve's good friends Scott Erickson and Sarah Robinson—two people who knew him well and seek to honor his life through their words. This month is a heavier one for all of us, but these conversations are also a challenge to do something about the stigma around depression and anxiety, especially in the church. September Guests: Steve Austin (September 14th) Scott Erickson (September 21st) Sarah Robinson (September 28th) 

A street kid from Africa turned foster dad based in North Carolina, Peter Mutabazi's story is like no other. On this episode of The Other Side of the Church, Lathan gets to sit down with the author and foster care advocate to talk about Peter's passion for coming alongside “stray” kids, how the church can engage with foster kids, and the power words of affirmation hold to tell us who and Whose we are. Don't miss this engaging and inspiring conversation about one man's mission to change the world, one child at a time. Episode Timeline: [0:58] Peter's motivation for writing Now I Am Known [2:27] Peter's story [5:05] Empathy for “stray” kids [7:00] Engaging with foster kids in the church [12:36] Overcoming the trust barrier with foster kids [16:02] Discovering the power of words of affirmation [19:22] Peter's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: Now I Am Known: How a street kid turned foster dad found acceptance and true worthPeter's website Social: Follow Peter on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube  

Rev. Dr. Erin Raffety is back for pt. 2 of her conversation with Lathan on this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast. This time the two get into the weeds of how we can move from inclusion to justice when it comes to how we treat and interact with disabled people. Throughout the episode, Erin and Lathan hit on justice for disabled people in the church, practicing justice on an individual basis, and end with Erin's hope for her book and the adoption of true justice for disabled individuals everywhere. Episode Timeline: [1:05] Clearing the Confusion: Justice for disabled people [6:38] Justice for disabled people in the church [13:54] Practicing justice one-on-one [19:21] How to show disabled people the love of Jesus outside of the church [25:41] Erin's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: From Inclusion to Justice: Disability, Ministry, and Congregational Leadership Social: Follow Erin on Twitter at @ErinRaffety 

On this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast, Lathan continues the month's theme by welcoming Rev. Dr. Erin Raffety to the table. Erin is an anthropologist-minister and disability advocate whose story of growing up around disabled individuals—and then walking through her own daughter's diagnosis—has shaped her passion for inclusion and justice for all people. In pt. 1 of Lathan's conversation with Erin the two clear the confusion when it comes to disability ministry, talk about making space for disabled people's pain, and redefine disability as a divine embodiment of the human experience, not the tragedy it's so often made out to be. Episode Timeline: [1:05] Erin's passion for disability [5:14] Clearing the Confusion: Disability ministry [12:48] Welcome signs versus real inclusion [18:23] Making space for disabled people's pain [21:47] If disability isn't a tragedy, what is it? Resources Mentioned: From Inclusion to Justice: Disability, Ministry, and Congregational Leadership Social: Follow Erin on Twitter at @ErinRaffety 

Dr. Amy Kenny's body is not a prayer request. As a disabled woman, Amy is instead here to tell us that we can, and should, do better when it comes to viewing disabled people as simply that: people. On this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast, Lathan talks with Amy about her journey from adolescence to diagnosis, how her disability colors the way she reads Scripture, and the idea of wheelchairs in Heaven. This is an important conversation for anyone in church leadership who wants to stop treating the disabled individuals in their congregation as “other,” but really it's an important conversation for all of us who not only desire to empathize with Amy's story, but also make the necessary changes to create a better world for every person living with a disability. Episode Timeline: [0:55] Clearing the Confusion: If your body is not a prayer request, then what is it? [1:40] Amy's journey from adolescence to diagnosis [4:03] The Christian moralization of disability [6:00] How Amy's disability colors her reading of Scripture [10:00] The idea of a disabled Savior [12:25] Key indicators that we're missing the disabled [15:14] Amy's balance of joy and pain[17:18] Wheelchairs in Heaven [19:38] Amy's desire [21:02] Amy's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: My Body is Not a Prayer Request Social: Connect with Amy on her website, or by following her on Instagram 

August has arrived, and with it Lathan and his wife will welcome their identical twin girls (any day now!). On this month's Setting the Table episode, Lathan lays out the theme for the month: disability awareness. The church as we know it doesn't always minister well to people with disabilities, or it fails to acknowledge those disabilities altogether. The stories and perspectives Lathan will share throughout August shed light on those individuals and the challenges they face while at the same time emphasizing that we're all image-bearers of God. That conversation on disability and the church will kick off next week with author Amy Kenny and her incredible story. Pull up a seat at the table for August on The Other Side of the Church! 

Author and therapist K.J. Ramsey has experienced her fair share of “church hurt,” but she doesn't want you to call it that. On this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church, Lathan and K.J dive into why it's important to call church hurt what it really is: trauma and spiritual abuse. Together the two also hit on what it means to be truly beloved by Jesus, how our feelings can actually point us back to God, and why the relationship between our body and our spirituality is so vital. This is an ongoing conversation we all need to be part of, regardless of what our experiences with church and spiritual authority have looked like in the past. Episode Timeline: [0:29] What “beloved” means to K.J. [1:29] Clearing the Confusion: Psalm 23[4:21] The problem with the term “church hurt” [13:30] Why does pain have to become personal before we do something? [19:14] Defensiveness of the church [27:02] K.J.'s word for the one wounded sheep [31:43] The most fascinating thing about the body according to K.J. [36:21] The desire for kindness from church authority [41:09] K.J.'s Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: The Lord is my Courage This Too Shall LastSocial: Stay connected with K.J. through her website, on Instagram, or subscribe to her Substack, Embodied. 

Pastor Adam Weber's the real deal. On this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast Lathan sits down with the pastor, author, and speaker to talk about how to love others well, even when that's far from easy. A few years ago Adam went through the hardest season of his life, and here he shares what he learned from that season and how his relationship with Jesus changed because of it—encouraging us all that God has something better on the other side of whatever darkness we're facing. As our country continues to struggle with division, this episode will give you hope that we can in fact find common ground and embrace people where they're at, even if that place is so different from our own. Episode Timeline: [0:47] Meet Pastor Adam Weber [3:34] Clearing the Confusion: Loving difficult people [7:30] Why it's sometimes hard for Christians to embrace the pain in others [12:45] What Adam learned from his hardest season [19:10] How Adam's relationship with Jesus changed after his hard season [27:15] Adam's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: Embrace Church Talking with God: What to say when you don't know how to pray Love has a Name: Learning to love the different, the difficult, and everyone else Social: Connect with Adam through his website, adamweber.com, or follow him on Instagram.  

Creating a place where everyone feels safe, including the “misfits” of society—whores, drug addicts, child molesters, sinners—is no easy task, especially in today's political and social climate. But that's exactly what Eric Sandras, or Dr. E as he's known to most, has set out to do with The Sanctuary Church. On this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast, Lathan got the chance to sit down with Dr. E and talk creating a church posture that reflects who Jesus actually was, not just what we want him to stand for. Together the two tell stories of how they've seen God's holiness in the most unlikely of people, discuss leading well in moments of divisiveness, and offer hope to those who have little hope in themselves. Episode Timeline: [1:09] Clearing the Confusion: How Jesus related with politics [5:53] The story of The Sanctuary [13:25] How to lead well in moments of divisiveness [18:22] Creating church posture - Rebecca's story [36:14] Dr. E's Hope Holler [38:04] Skip's story Resources Mentioned: The Sanctuary Church

We're switching things up on The Other Side of the Church podcast and doing something a little different each month from here on out. On this first episode of July, Lathan “sets the table” for what's going to be happening on the podcast for the rest of the month: the guests he'll talk with, what topics they'll cover, and the themes that color the heart of these conversations. Lathan starts off this month's Setting the Table episode by filling us in on what's happening in the Craft household (twin girls arriving in August and the Craft's initiation into the minivan club!), and shares about how you can stay connected with The Other Side of the Church on Instagram (you can follow Lathan at @lathanwc if you aren't already). We've all been affected by the recent mass shootings in our country and the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and these issues and other warrant discussions on how to be a Christ follower in the current social climate and why pain so often has to become personal before we do anything about it. These topics and others will show up in Lathan's July interviews—challenging not only how we interact with politics and people, but also how we love those who are different from us. Grab your seat at the table for July's The Other Side of the Church episodes! July Guests: Dr. E. (July 13th) Pastor Adam Weber (July 20th) KJ Ramsey (July 27th) 

Waiting on a “yes” from God is hard, but what can be even more difficult is waiting for that yes when everyone around you seems to have already received an answer to their prayer. This is the balancing act Heather Thompson Day writes about in her book, It's Not Your Turn, and it's the struggle Lathan and Heather talk about throughout this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast. Together the two hit on how to love others well while still loving yourself, why we sometimes need those hard seasons to show us a different side of God, and how to remain hopeful even in the midst of suffering. Heather's story is all about finding miracles in the waiting—a truth all of us can learn from, no matter what kind of season we're currently walking through. Episode Timeline: [0:47] Clearing the Confusion: Waiting on a “yes” from God [3:09] Inspiration behind It's Not Your Turn [10:05] Loving yourself versus loving the other [12:57] Heather's story of not having anything to give at church [18:24] For the person who feels like God skipped their prayer [24:57] The story of the house [29:37] Heather's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: It's Not Your Turn: What to do while you're waiting for your breakthrough Viral Jesus podcast Social: Connect with Heather on Instagram or through her website. 

Anger is something the majority of men deal with over the course of their lifetime, but how do we harness an emotion that's most often seen as destructive into God's vision of righteous anger? Coach and podcaster Joseph Warren has a few ideas. After living through a childhood colored by the anger of his father, Joseph saw that same pattern becoming true in his own life as he battled sex addiction and pornography. It was only when he reframed his view of anger and fell in love with God as a good Father that Joseph was able to harness his anger for God's glory. Listen in this week as Lathan and Joseph  clear the confusion on anger in men, talk about how to reframe your anger, and share examples of how they've seen God triumph in the most unlikely of situations. Men, don't miss this impactful episode! Episode Timeline: [0:53] Clearing the Confusion: Anger in men [6:54] How anger shaped Joseph's story [16:47] Examples of God's power over anger [26:30] Falling in love with God and reframing anger as righteous [38:17] Joseph's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned: Broken Catholic podcast Your First 100k podcast Peace & Purpose: An easy and proven way to eliminate anger & stress in 90 days or less!Grab a FREE copy of Peace and Purpose here! Blow Up Rocks Book a FREE coaching call with Joseph here! Social: Connect with Joseph on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. 

Accountability in church seems like something that's faded into the background over the last few decades, but Travis Whatley wants to bring it back into the conversation. The founder of Church Mints Accountability, a company focused on helping churches foster accountability in their congregations and small groups, Travis knows what it's like to be the person in church who feels like their struggle isn't seen. On this episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast, Lathan talks with Travis about overcoming his porn addiction, why strutting your scars is the new form of evangelism, and what genuine revival in the church can look like—a revival that begins with accountability.  Episode Timeline:  [0:44] Clearing the Confusion: Why accountability in the church is so important  [5:32] What Travis needed most through his porn addiction  [10:19] Travis' word to the individual whose struggle isn't seen  [13:01] Navigating church hurt  [16:58] Strutting your scars as the new evangelism  [19:34] Strutting your scars for the post-pandemic Christian   [23:02] How pastors can strut their scars  [28:11] What genuine church revival can look like  [34:20] Travis' Hope Holler  Resources Mentioned:  Church Mints  Social:  Connect with Travis and Church Mints on Facebook and Instagram, or by joining their leader accountability Facebook Group.

Being an LGBTQ individual in the church is often a topic that's ignored. Dr. Terrance McClain believes those conversations are ones we need to have, even when they're messy. On this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast, Lathan talks with Dr. McClain about his journey growing up in the church with same sex attraction and the process of overcoming his LGBTQ struggles to embrace a new identity in Christ. This is a nuanced, hope-filled conversation about acceptance and belonging that everyone in the church should be having, regardless of sexual orientation.  Episode Timeline:  [0:58] Clearing the Confusion: Being LGBTQ in the church  [8:16] Finding belonging in the LGBTQ community  [12:43] Dr. McClain's story of growing up in church with same sex attraction  [20:40] Dr. McClain's process of overcoming his LGBTQ struggles  [26:34] Church acceptance of LGBTQ individuals  [29:26] Dr. McClain's Hope Holler  Resources Mentioned:  God Brought Me Through  McClainMinistries.com  Social:  Connect with Dr. McClain on Instagram at @mcclainmof and on Facebook.

Listen in this week as Lathan sits down with Billy and Brandy Eldridge, a couple who knows what it's like to battle addiction firsthand. Together, Brandy and Billy share Billy's story of recovery from alcoholism and opiates, and how Brandy walked with him as a spouse through every step of the journey. The two get candid about why they chose to leave the church when the structure no longer served them as a place of healing and recovery, and the episode closes with their words of hope for those who find themselves hopeless in the face of addictions of any kind.  Episode Timeline:  [0:47] Meet Billy and Brandy Eldridge  [2:18] Clearing the Confusion: What it means to come as you are in church  [8:20] Alcoholism versus opiate addiction for Billy  [12:13] Brandy's advice to spouses of those battling addiction   [18:10] Living in the tension between it's okay to ask for help and it's not okay  [24:24] When church structure becomes harmful to recovery  [30:24] How the Eldridge's parent their kids  [35:58] Billy's story of recovery and acceptance  [42:49] The Eldridge's Hope Hollers    Resources Mentioned:  BetaMaleRevolution.com  OliveTreeTXK.com  The Beta Male Revolution podcast    Social:  Connect with Billy and Brandy through the Beta Male Revolution's Instagram page at @betamalerevolution. 

For this episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast Lathan sits down with fellow Texans Brooke and Adam Fish to talk about the “weird” power of the Holy Spirit, depression, and their ministry, The Unseen Story. The Fishes are no strangers to struggle. As Adam battled through a season of depression, Brooke was in there with him through it all, and both learned what it truly meant to depend on the power of the Holy Spirit even in the darkest of times. Don't miss this hope-filled episode from this remarkable couple!  Episode Timeline:  [1:18] Clearing the Confusion: Who is the Holy Spirit?  [9:45] The Fish's journey through depression and towards the Holy Spirit   [22:43] What the Fish's would say to someone going through depression [29:49] The Unseen Story  [39:25] The Fish's advice for those in the waiting  [46:15] The Fish's Hope Holler    Resources Mentioned:  The Unseen Story    Social: Follow Brooke and Adam through The Unseen Story's Instagram at @the.unseen.story.

For this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast, Lathan talks with his good friend Laura Fooks on waiting, living in the gray area of life, and her ministry, Light Speaks Loudest. Like many teenage girls, Laura struggled with waiting for things like finding “the one” and knowing her calling in life. Out of that season of struggle, Laura created her subscription box company, Light Speaks Loudest, to encourage teenage girls in the truth that they're already enough. Listen in as Lathan and Laura talk about why the Church is bad at communicating that it's okay to wait, what Laura learned in her waiting, and how to lean into life's shades of gray.  Episode Timeline:  [0:28] Clearing the Confusion: What it means to live in the gray  [5:58] What Laura learned in the waiting  [8:56] Laura's advice to those waiting  [12:08] Why is the Church so bad at communicating it's okay to wait?  [14:15] Light Speaks Loudest  [17:04] Laura's Hope Holler  Resources Mentioned:  Light Speaks Loudest  Light Speaks Loudest Instagram  Use promo code OTHERSIDE for 15% off your first box Social: Follow Laura on Instagram at @lauramfooks.

On this episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast Lathan sits down with former atheist turned Christian, Nicolas Day. Together the two talk about what it was like for Nic to dialogue with Christians as an atheist, deconstructionist thinking in the church, and what Nic needed from Christians when he was an atheist. This hope-filled and honest conversation is one you're not going to want to miss! Episode Timeline:  [0:32] Clearing the Confusion: Living as an atheist  [4:22] As an atheist, what it was like for Nicolas to dialogue with Christians  [13:34] Nicolas' response to the deconstructionist listening  [20:43] What Nicolas needed from Christians when we was an atheist  [27:26] How the power of Christ brought Nicolas from atheism to faith  [30:48] Nicolas' Hope Holler Nicolascday.com  Social: Follow Nic on Instagram at @nicolascday or on Twitter at @nicolascday.

On this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast Lathan sits down with his friend Scott Erickson—artist, author, and performance speaker—to talk about the American church today and why over the years church has become so boring. Throughout their conversation, Scott and Lathan hit on what it would take to bring wonder back to the church, what the traditional church experience is like for the outsider, and the truth that we all inherently possess a way of communicating with God. Social: Check out Scott on Instagram at @scotthepainter, on Facebook at Scott Erickson, and on Twitter at @scotthepainter.  Resources Mentioned:  Say Yes: Discovering the surprising life beyond the death of a dream  Say Yes tour  Prayer: Forty days of practice  May it be So: Forty days with the Lord's prayer Episode Timeline: [1:06] Why is church boring and why do people not belong?  [12:29] Clearing the Confusion: where has wonder gone in church and how can we bring it back?  [19:54] Church for the outcast  [33:05] Scott's Hope Holler

For this episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast, Lathan talks with Ashlie Bourgeous, who walked with her husband through addiction. Ashlie's story is a powerful one, and one so many of us share yet refuse to bring into the light. Together, Ashlie and Lathan talk through what it's actually like being married to someone who struggles with addiction, how Ashlie's research into addiction was one of the main ways she loved her husband in that season, and how her view of God changed because of her husband's struggle. If you've ever battled addiction yourself, or love someone who does, don't miss this episode. Episode Timeline:  [1:27] Clearing the Confusion: being married to someone who's addicted to drugs  [3:44] Ashlie's process of uncovering her husband's addiction  [14:21] A relationship with God in the midst of addiction  [18:37] Ashlie's addiction research and how her husband turned the corner  [33:42] The American Church as a barrier in Ashlie's waiting, but how God was still faithful  [40:33] How Ashlie's view of God changed through her husband's struggle [43:44] Ashlie's Hope Holler Social: You can find Ashlie on Instagram at @ashliegb13

For this week's episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast, Lathan sits down with Zach Lambert, pastor and founder of Restore Austin and avid believer that deconstruction doesn't have to be a bad thing. Zach and Lathan go there, talking all things money in church, why we need to get back to the idea of pastors as shepherds, and how Zach's Twitter feed changed someone's life. [0:33] Clearing the Confusion: what it means to be a pastor who shepherds  [6:58] Zach's journey to starting Restore Austin  [11:15] Looking at the relationship between church and money  [17:00] Deconstruction and church scars  [21:03] Zach's Hope Holler Resources Mentioned:  Restore Austin Check out Zach's Twitter feed by following @ZachWLambert. You can also follow him on Instagram at @zachwlambert.

On this episode of The Other Side of the Church podcast, Lathan talks with Grace Bomb founder Pat Linnell about what else … grace! Pat was a full-time pastor before he started Grace Bomb as a way to inject some love, motivated by Jesus, into people's lives. Now he's Grace-Bombing people all over the place—sharing with Lathan some of the stories of grace that have impacted him the most, why evangelism can actually be simple, and how God is with us even in the valleys of life.  Social:  Check out Grace Bomb on Instagram (@grace.bomb) and Facebook (Grace Bomb)  Follow Pat on Instagram at @patricklinnell Resources Mentioned:  GraceBomb.org  GraceBombco.org  Episode Timeline:  [0:28] About Pat and Grace Bomb  [1:34] Clearing the Confusion: evangelism can be simple  [7:15] The sometimes complicated relationship between kindness and Jesus  [11:30] Why Pat needed Grace Bomb himself  [13:01] The Grace Bomb at Chad's Barbecue  [24:27] Moments that confirmed Grace Bomb in Pat's heart  [28:24] Grace Bombing yourself  [32:25] Pat's Hope Holler 

Jonathan Collier has devoted the rest of his life helping people get past what he came way too familiar with: burn out, unwanted, and just plain stuck. You can find Jonathan on socials: Instagram: @just_jonathan

Kathryn had a different perspective completely of Justin Uziak's addiction. She was his mom. Hear her powerful perspective of the addiction, the completely different journey she walked, and the incredible God she met through the whole thing.  You can purchase Kathryn's new book “Counting Spoons” here:  https://www.amazon.com/Counting-Spoons-Kathryn-Mae-Inman/dp/1735632856/ref=sr_1_1?crid=GL2BWC5VM744&keywords=counting+spoons+by+kathryn+inman&qid=1641955084&sprefix=counting+spoons+%2Caps%2C103&sr=8-1 You can find Kathryn on socials:  Instagram: @kathrynminman   Twitter: @kathryninman9

Justin grew up, he even admits, as the popular kid and sports star, he had everything he could have wanted…until heroin stripped everything away. Lathan and Justin talk candidly about Justin's addiction, why he couldn't get out of it, and how he eventually found freedom. You can contact Justin through the phone number he provided during the show if you are struggling or you know someone who is struggling and you're not sure how to help. Contact Justin: (360)842-6268

Jonathan Collier has devoted the rest of his life helping people get past what he came way too familiar with: burn out, unwanted, and just plain stuck.    You can follow Jonathan on Instagram to get more information and to find out more about him: @just_j0nathan

Casey was a Pastor at a Church that seemed to be doing everything right, the Lord seemed to be blessing it in numbers, and people were coming to faith in droves. Until the Church became a pasture. Hear Casey's incredible transparent conversation with Lathan and what he has devoted his life to since. You can hear Casey's podcast anywhere podcasts are available “The Minister's Toolbox”.  You can find out all about Casey's books here: https://www.amazon.com/Casey-Sabella/e/B001KCJ03U%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share

Taylor Schumann never expected “school shooting survivor” to be on her bio, but now gun control has become her deepest passion. In April 2013, Taylor went to work at the school that she would, hours later, become a gunshot victim, and she joins Lathan today to talk about that fateful spring morning, and how her perspective about…well…everything has changed since then.  Get her book here:  https://www.amazon.com/When-Thoughts-Prayers-Arent-Enough/dp/0830831703/ref=sr_1_1?crid=144YS9BH7CV71&keywords=when+thoughts+and+prayers+arent+enough&qid=1641953680&sprefix=when+thoughts+and+prayers+arent+enough+%2Caps%2C110&sr=8-1 Find Taylor on socials' Instagram: @taylorschumannwrites  Twitter: @taylorsschumann

Not only is Blake the founder of Crappy Christian Co. and host of the Crappy Christian podcast, she is deeply passionate about the things of Jesus. Lathan and Blake talk about honest things; things like anxiety, depression, vulnerability, authenticity, weakness…and how stinkin beautiful Jesus is in the midst of it all.    Find Blake on socials'  Instagram: @thegirlnamedblake Website:  Crappychristianco.com

Why does church feel so fake sometimes? Where does the pressure to say “I'm fine” come from? In this episode of The Other Side of the Church, Lathan speaks to songwriter and author Matthew West about the inspiration behind his song “Truth Be Told.” Join them as they talk about perfectionism in the Church, the power of honesty and authenticity, and using our brokenness to give hope to others. You can learn more about Matthew at matthewwest.com or on the The Matthew West Podcast.

A lot of churches still have a problem with women in the pulpit. But Christy Bauman explains how women can teach us things about God's story that men can't. In this episode of The Other Side of the Church, Lathan speaks to the author and psychotherapist about her book “Theology of the Womb.” They discuss God's thematic story of the life cycle, the grief and pain of a miscarriage, and the role that women's bodies play in telling the story of the gospel. Learn more about Christy at christybauman.com

What is it like for a pastor to fall away from the church? And is there really a way back to faith for those pastors? In this episode of The Other Side of the Church, Corey Latta, an ex Discipleship and Teaching Pastor in the Methodist Church, recounts his post-ministry story of failure, forgiveness, and freedom. Listen to part two of Lathan and Corey's discussion of secrecy, shame, and the pressures of pastoral perfectionism in The Church. You can get in touch with Corey Latta at latta.corey@gmail.com.

What is it like for a pastor to fall away from the church? Corey Latta, an ex Discipleship and Teaching Pastor in the Methodist Church, recounts his post-ministry story of failure, forgiveness, and freedom. In this episode of The Other Side of the Church, listen to part one of Lathan and Corey's discussion of secrecy, shame, and the pressures of pastoral perfectionism in The Church. You can get in touch with Corey Latta at latta.corey@gmail.com

Many of us love The Church. We grew up in it, found friends there, and used those experiences to guide some of our biggest life decisions. But for all of the good that churches offer, why are they some of the hardest places to find real love and acceptance? In this episode of The Other Side of the Church, listen as Lathan and Christian singer/songwriter Blanca discuss how her wavering church experience influenced her hit song “Real Love.” They discuss the traumas of fake perfection, stifled honesty, and subtle manipulation that can occur when messy humans lead the church. Learn more about Blanca at officialblanca.com