Podcasts about defensiveness

Text us your questions or topics for the show! We got you!Cass Morrow, Author of Disrupting Divorce: The NEW Man. Saving Struggling, Sexless, and Toxic Marriages.Kathryn Morrow, Author of Behind The White Picket Fence.You always have too much to say. Too much to defend. Too much to justify. Too much to correct. And it never works. Here's why: the urgency to speak isn't coming from your power. It's coming from your insecurity. And the more you speak from that place, the more you lose ground. In Ep444 of The 'NEW' Marriage, Cass and Kathryn break down the art of silence as strength — what it actually means, why it's not erasure, and how it becomes the most powerful thing you can do in a marriage that feels out of control.

LESSON 153In My Defenselessness My Safety Lies.You who feel threatened by this changing world, its twists of fortune and its bitter jests, its brief relationships and all the “gifts” it merely lends to take away again; attend this lesson well. The world provides no safety. It is rooted in attack, and all its “gifts” of seeming safety are illusory deceptions. It attacks, and then attacks again. No peace of mind is possible where danger threatens thus.The world gives rise but to defensiveness. For threat brings anger, anger makes attack seem reasonable, honestly provoked, and righteous in the name of self-defense. Yet is defensiveness a double threat. For it attests to weakness, and sets up a system of defense that cannot work. Now are the weak still further undermined, for there is treachery without and still a greater treachery within. The mind is now confused, and knows not where to turn to find escape from its imaginings.It is as if a circle held it fast, wherein another circle bound it and another one in that, until escape no longer can be hoped for nor obtained. Attack, defense; defense, attack, become the circles of the hours and the days that bind the mind in heavy bands of steel with iron overlaid, returning but to start again. There seems to be no break nor ending in the ever-tightening grip of the imprisonment upon the mind.Defenses are the costliest of all the prices which the ego would exact. In them lies madness in a form so grim that hope of sanity seems but to be an idle dream, beyond the possible. The sense of threat the world encourages is so much deeper, and so far beyond the frenzy and intensity of which you can conceive, that you have no idea of all the devastation it has wrought.You are its slave. You know not what you do, in fear of it. You do not understand how much you have been made to sacrifice, who feel its iron grip upon your heart. You do not realize what you have done to sabotage the holy peace of God by your defensiveness. For you behold the Son of God as but a victim to attack by fantasies, by dreams, and by illusions he has made; yet helpless in their presence, needful only of defense by still more fantasies, and dreams by which illusions of his safety comfort him.Defenselessness is strength. It testifies to recognition of the Christ in you. Perhaps you will recall the text maintains that choice is always made between Christ's strength and your own weakness, seen apart from Him. Defenselessness can never be attacked, because it recognizes strength so great attack is folly, or a silly game a tired child might play, when he becomes too sleepy to remember what he wants.Defensiveness is weakness. It proclaims you have denied the Christ and come to fear His Father's anger. What can save you now from your delusion of an angry god, whose fearful image you believe you see at work in all the evils of the world? What but illusions could defend you now, when it is but illusions that you fight?We will not play such childish games today. For our true purpose is to save the world, and we would not exchange for foolishness the endless joy our function offers us. We would not let our happiness slip by because a fragment of a senseless dream happened to cross our minds, and we mistook the figures in it for the Son of God; its tiny instant for eternity.We look past dreams today, and recognize that we need no defense because we are created unassailable, without all thought or wish or dream in which attack has any meaning. Now we cannot fear, for we have left all fearful thoughts behind. And in defenselessness we stand secure, serenely certain of our safety now, sure of salvation; sure we will fulfill our chosen purpose, as our ministry extends its holy blessing through the world.Be still a moment, and in silence think how holy is your purpose, how secure you rest, untouchable within its light. God's ministers have chosen that the truth be with them. Who is holier than they? Who could be surer that his happiness is fully guaranteed? And who could be more mightily protected? What defense could possibly be needed by the ones who are among the chosen ones of God, by His election and their own as well?It is the function of God's ministers to help their brothers choose as they have done. God has elected all, but few have come to realize His Will is but their own. And while you fail to teach what you have learned, salvation waits and darkness holds the world in grim imprisonment. Nor will you learn that light has come to you, and your escape has been accomplished. For you will not see the light, until you offer it to all your brothers. As they take it from your hands, so will you recognize it as your own.Salvation can be thought of as a game that happy children play. It was designed by One Who loves His children, and Who would replace their fearful toys with joyous games, which teach them that the game of fear is gone. His game instructs in happiness because there is no loser. Everyone who plays must win, and in his winning is the gain to everyone ensured. The game of fear is gladly laid aside, when children come to see the benefits salvation brings.You who have played that you are lost to hope, abandoned by your Father, left alone in terror in a fearful world made mad by sin and guilt; be happy now. That game is over. Now a quiet time has come, in which we put away the toys of guilt, and lock our quaint and childish thoughts of sin forever from the pure and holy minds of Heaven's children and the Son of God.We pause but for a moment more, to play our final, happy game upon this earth. And then we go to take our rightful place where truth abides and games are meaningless. So is the story ended. Let this day bring the last chapter closer to the world, that everyone may learn the tale he reads of terrifying destiny, defeat of all his hopes, his pitiful defense against a vengeance he can not escape, is but his own deluded fantasy. God's ministers have come to waken him from the dark dreams this story has evoked in his confused, bewildered memory of this distorted tale. God's Son can smile at last, on learning that it is not true.Today we practice in a form we will maintain for quite a while. We will begin each day by giving our attention to the daily thought as long as possible. Five minutes now becomes the least we give to preparation for a day in which salvation is the only goal we have. Ten would be better; fifteen better still. And as distraction ceases to arise to turn us from our purpose, we will find that half an hour is too short a time to spend with God. Nor will we willingly give less at night, in gratitude and joy.Each hour adds to our increasing peace, as we remember to be faithful to the Will we share with God. At times, perhaps, a minute, even less, will be the most that we can offer as the hour strikes. Sometimes we will forget. At other times the business of the world will close on us, and we will be unable to withdraw a little while, and turn our thoughts to God.Yet when we can, we will observe our trust as ministers of God, in hourly remembrance of our mission and His Love. And we will quietly sit by and wait on Him and listen to His Voice, and learn what He would have us do the hour that is yet to come; while thanking Him for all the gifts He gave us in the one gone by.In time, with practice, you will never cease to think of Him, and hear His loving Voice guiding your footsteps into quiet ways, where you will walk in true defenselessness. For you will know that Heaven goes with you. Nor would you keep your mind away from Him a moment, even though your time is spent in offering salvation to the world. Think you He will not make this possible, for you who chose to carry out His plan for the salvation of the world and yours?Today our theme is our defenselessness. We clothe ourselves in it, as we prepare to meet the day. We rise up strong in Christ, and let our weakness disappear, as we remember that His strength abides in us. We will remind ourselves that He remains beside us through the day, and never leaves our weakness unsupported by His strength. We call upon His strength each time we feel the threat of our defenses undermine our certainty of purpose. We will pause a moment, as He tells us, “I am here.”Your practicing will now begin to take the earnestness of love, to help you keep your mind from wandering from its intent. Be not afraid nor timid. There can be no doubt that you will reach your final goal. The ministers of God can never fail, because the love and strength and peace that shine from them to all their brothers come from Him. These are His gifts to you. Defenselessness is all you need to give Him in return. You lay aside but what was never real, to look on Christ and see His sinlessness.- Jesus Christ in ACIM

Send us Fan MailSend us Fan MailIn this enlightening episode of Living the Dream with Curveball, we are joined by the remarkable Belle Gayer, an author and relationship expert with over five decades of experience in love and commitment. After experiencing the beauty and challenges of a long-term partnership, Belle transformed her personal journey into a mission to help others navigate the complexities of relationships. Her book, *Are Relationships for Suckers?*, shares invaluable insights and lessons learned from her own life, aiming to guide others through the often turbulent waters of love.Belle dives into the misconceptions surrounding relationships today, including the myths of "true love" and "the one." She discusses the importance of understanding the stages of romantic love and the hard work required to nurture enduring connections. Through her engaging storytelling, Belle reveals the critical components of successful relationships, such as communication, devotion, and flexibility.Listeners will also gain practical advice on overcoming common relationship hurdles, the significance of compatibility versus commitment, and the need for deeper emotional connections in a world filled with distractions. Belle's warmth and wisdom shine throughout the conversation, reminding us all that happiness in love is attainable with effort and understanding.What You'll Learn in This Episode:- The key misconceptions about love and relationships- Insights from Belle's book and her personal experiences- The foundational habits that support lasting partnerships- The role of communication in fostering intimacy- Tips for reconnecting with your partner amidst life's distractionsFor more information on Belle and her work, visit www.rrelationshipsforsuckers.com and explore her insightful content on Quora.Support the show

Every pastor says they want honest feedback, but do their actions back that up? In this episode, Scott and A.J. walk through three clear signs that a pastor or any church leader may have a blind spot when it comes to receiving input, from defensive reactions to punishing the messenger to making decisions in a complete vacuum. If you have ever felt like bringing feedback to your leader is more trouble than it is worth, this episode will help you name what you are seeing. Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu are lead consultants at the Malphurs Group, a church consulting and coaching organization dedicated to helping established churches find a way forward. Each week on the Church Revitalization Podcast, they bring practical, field-tested insight drawn from years of working directly with pastors and church leadership teams across the country. Their conversations are honest, sometimes funny, and always aimed at helping churches become healthier. [4:35] Sign 1: Defensiveness — shutting down conversations and deflecting feedback [10:25] Sign 2: Punishing the Messenger — what happens when the person who brings information pays a price for it [12:58] Sign 3: Decisions Made in a Vacuum — leading without meaningful input from the team [13:57] Real-World Story — a case study from the consulting room showing all three signs in action [20:11] The Payoff of Humility — why leaders who welcome feedback lead longer and lead better Free 7-Day Trial of the Healthy Churches Toolkit: https://healthychurchestoolkit.com Episode Article: https://malphursgroup.com/342 Follow the Malphurs Group: https://facebook.com/malphursgroup https://instagram.com/malphursgroup https://youtube.com/themalphursgroup https://x.com/malphursgroup

Celebrating 300 episodes with one of the hardest relationship skills: feedback. Sue and Ann reflect on a decade of podcasting and dive into one of the the most challenging parts of any relationship: giving and receiving feedback. Through candid personal stories, humor, and clinical insight, they explore how attachment history, defensiveness, trauma, and vulnerability shape the way we handle conflict and communication. This conversation explains why feedback can feel so threatening, how couples get stuck arguing facts instead of feelings, and why repair—not perfection—is the foundation of healthy relationships. “Feedback is a bid for connection.” – Sue Marriott, LCSW CGP Time Stamps for 300 Episodes In: Why Feedback Is So Hard (300) 01:56 The challenge of feedback: Giving and receiving 07:29 Understanding the difficulty of giving feedback 11:06 The fear of feedback: Avoidance and anticipation 16:15 The overestimation of awareness: Why we hold back 26:32 Navigating the receiving end of feedback 32:34 Impact over intent: The key to effective communication 34:54 Navigating feedback and racial sensitivity 41:08 Defensiveness in relationships 52:09 The role of trauma in relationships Please support our sponsors – they keep our podcast free and accessible to all!  A coffee alternative with 4 adaptogenic mushrooms and ayurvedic herbs. With only a fraction of caffeine as a cup of coffee, you get energy without the anxiety, jitters, or crash of coffee Go to mudwtr.com/tu to support the show and use code TU for 15% off   Beyond Attachment Styles course is available NOW!   Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others. Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.     You are invited!  Join our exclusive community to get early access and discounts to things we produce, plus an ad-free, private feed. In addition, receive exclusive episodes recorded just for you. Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!    Get your copy of Secure Relating here!!

You know what happens when someone feels genuinely heard?Defensiveness drops. Trust rises. Solutions come faster. Connection deepens.And most of the time, people are not asking you to solve their entire life.

Giving feedback can feel uncomfortable, especially when we worry about how it will be received. We explore how to approach constructive feedback in a way that builds trust instead of triggering defensiveness. By focusing on observable behavior rather than the individual, we can shift conversations away from blame and toward growth. We also highlight how emotions, past experiences, and even small forms of trauma can influence how feedback is interpreted.We discuss practical strategies like choosing the right time and setting, using collaborative language, and asking thoughtful questions instead of giving directives. Small adjustments in tone, body language, and pacing can make a meaningful difference in how feedback lands. We also emphasize the importance of keeping feedback manageable and creating space for dialogue so others feel heard and supported.When feedback is delivered with empathy and clarity, it strengthens relationships with staff and caregivers while improving outcomes for learners. Creating a culture where feedback feels safe and constructive allows everyone to grow together and stay aligned on shared goals.What's Inside: How to give feedback without triggering defensivenessPractical strategies for staff and caregiver conversationsCommon mistakes to avoid when delivering feedbackMentioned in This Episode:Episode 217: Hard Conversations, Soft Skills: Navigating Difficult Parent & Staff InteractionsHowToABA.com/joinHow to ABA on YouTubeFind us on FacebookFollow us on Instagram

Why do we become defensive when we feel criticized, misunderstood, or hurt? In this episode, we explore Dr. John Gottman's research on defensiveness and how it impacts communication in marriage, family, and everyday relationships. Through a Christian perspective, we discuss how fear, pride, and insecurity can keep us from truly hearing one another and how God calls us to respond with humility, patience, and grace.Together, we'll talk about practical ways to lower defensiveness, improve communication, and create healthier conversations rooted in love and respect. We'll also reflect on biblical principles such as being “quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry,” while learning how confession, forgiveness, and empathy can strengthen relationships.Whether you are married, dating, leading a family, or simply trying to grow emotionally and spiritually, this episode offers encouragement and practical tools to help you communicate with wisdom, peace, and Christ-centered love.If you're struggling in your marriage or want to strengthen your relationship before problems grow, this episode is for you.

Most couples are not fighting about what they think they're fighting about. This conversation is not really about menopause. It is about interpretation. Misreading each other. Emotional unpredictability. Defensiveness. Fear. And what happens inside a relationship when one person changes before either person fully understands why. In this episode of Talking to Men: The Conversations We're Not Having, Jacq sits down with Brian for a conversation about midlife, emotional shifts, communication, and the difference between listening to someone and actually understanding their lived experience. This is not a conversation about fixing women or getting men to say silly things. It is a conversation about staying connected when certainty disappears. Some of the most honest moments are the quietest ones - and they're usually behind closed doors. 

Welcome back to Raising Confident Girls. In this episode, Melissa Jones explores one of the most emotionally charged moments in parenting—when your daughter blames you for something that didn't go the way she hoped.In those moments, it's natural to want to explain, correct, or defend yourself. But Melissa encourages parents to look beyond the words and respond to the feelings underneath them instead. When a daughter feels disappointed, hurt, or frustrated, blame is often less about the actual situation and more about the emotions she's struggling to process.This episode offers a compassionate reminder that empathy can calm tension far more effectively than defensiveness. By acknowledging your daughter's emotions first, you create safety, reduce escalation, and make space for a more meaningful conversation later on.In this episode, we explore: Why your daughter's blame is often rooted in emotion, not logic  How responding with empathy can prevent power struggles  The importance of separating feelings from the actual situation  Why defending yourself too quickly can shut down connection  How validating emotions helps your daughter feel seen and understood  Ways to approach difficult conversations with calm and compassion Join Melissa for a thoughtful conversation about staying grounded in emotionally charged moments—and how leading with empathy can strengthen trust, connection, and resilience in your relationship with your daughter.Download the Quick Tips PDF of today's episode for future reference.If you know a parent who could benefit from this conversation, share this episode with them! Let's work together to raise the next generation of confident girls.We are looking for special people like you to help send a Girl to camp this summer. If you feel it in your heart, please click the link here. Every donation, no matter the size helps!Melissa's Links:• Website • Instagram • Facebook• TikTok• LinkedIn

The emotional side of ADHD and neurodivergence often shows up as shame, not behavior. Constant correction can quietly erode confidence and motivation. Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge, expert in Regulation First Parenting™, helps parents calm the brain and rebuild emotional resilience.Feeling like your child is constantly being corrected—and it's wearing them down? You're not alone. The emotional side of ADHD and neurodivergence often goes unseen, but it deeply impacts confidence, motivation, and behavior.In this episode, you'll learn how constant correction shapes your child's brain—and what actually helps.Why does my child with ADHD feel like they're always doing something wrong?When kids hear corrections all day—“sit still,” “focus,” “try harder”—it starts to shape how they see themselves.The brain builds identity through feedback. And when that feedback is mostly negative, kids begin to believe:“I'm the problem.”“I can't get it right.”“Why even try?”Over time, this becomes more than frustration—it turns into shame.Imagine your child forgetting homework again. You remind them (again), but what they hear is: “I always mess up.”Repeated correction creates a negative self-storyConfidence drops, even if effort is thereKids may shut down, act out, or avoid tasks entirelyThis is the hidden emotional weight of neurodivergence—and it matters more than you think.How does constant correction affect motivation and behavior in neurodivergent kids?Here's the truth: It's not bad behavior—it's a dysregulated brain trying to cope.When kids expect failure, something called learned helplessness kicks in. The brain says, “Why bother?”You might notice:Avoidance (they stop trying)Anxiety (fear of making mistakes)Defensiveness or backtalk (protecting themselves from more shame)This isn't laziness. It's protection.A parent might say, “My child just isn't motivated.” But underneath? That child is overwhelmed and trying to avoid feeling like they're failing again.Motivation drops when shame risesBehavior is a stress response—not defianceThe nervous system is stuck in survival modeThis is why we always say: Behavior is communication.You don't have to figure this out alone. Become a Dysregulation Insider VIP and get your FREE Regulation Rescue Kit: How to Stay Calm When Your Child Pushes Your Buttons and Stop Oppositional Behaviors. Head to www.drroseann.com/newsletter and start your calm parenting journey today.Why do kids with ADHD get more negative feedback than others?Kids with ADHD and neurodivergence process attention, emotions, and tasks differently. That means:They forget more oftenThey interrupt more frequentlyThey struggle with task completionAnd because of that? They receive thousands more corrections than their peers—sometimes up to 20,000 more by adolescence.Let that sink in.Real-Life Example: One mom shared how dinner always turns into correction after correction. Her child interrupts—and suddenly the whole tone shifts.More differences = more correctionMore correction = more emotional impactStrengths (like hyperfocus) often get overlookedBut here's the reframe: Your child's brain isn't broken—it's different. And with support, those differences can become strengths.How can I stop the correction cycle and support my child better?This is where everything changes. Let's calm the brain first.The CALMS Protocol gives you a simple, powerful shift:C – Co-regulate first: Pause. Lower your voice. Connect before correcting.A – Avoid personalizing: It's not intentional—it's neurological.L – Look for root causes: Hunger? Overwhelm? Too much demand?M – Model coping: Show calm problem-solving in real time.S – Support and reinforce: Focus on effort, not just outcomes.Instead of “Stop doing that,” try: “Let's figure this out together.”Connection brings the thinking brain back onlineCuriosity replaces frustrationSmall wins rebuild confidenceIf you want to start calming your child's nervous system fast, check out Quick CALM—a parent-friendly tool that helps you regulate in the moment so your child can too.What message should I be sending my neurodivergent child?Your child doesn't need more correction—they need a new story.Instead of: “What's wrong with you?”Shift to: “Your brain works differently—and we'll figure this out together.”

We tell stories all the time: about our partners, our past, and ourselves. But what happens when those stories quietly start running the relationship?In this episode of Get Psyched, we sit down with Saz Russell to unpack the narratives shaping our love lives, our boundaries, and our sense of self. From “relationship mediation” to monogamy hangovers, this conversation gets into the messy, fascinating space between perception and reality... and how to come back to truth without losing connection.If you've ever thought “they never understand me” or “maybe I'm the problem,” this one is going to land. The crew explores:

SUMMARY I brought a real story to Dr. Michelle this week. A small mistake on my part, a hurt little girl, a defensive dad at bedtime, and my wife catching my eye across the room. What unfolded was a live coaching moment I needed more than I knew. Dr. Michelle gently walked me back through what I missed, what was actually under the anger, and how to do the repair that actually reaches a daughter's heart. If you have ever blown it with your kids and tried to talk your way out of it instead of leaning in, this conversation is for you. Takeaways Anger is usually the front door. The real emotion sitting behind it is almost always sadness, fear, or confusion, and your kids feel that gap before you do. When your child tells the story of how you hurt them, the most powerful thing you can say is three words. Tell me more. Then stay there longer than feels comfortable. Defensiveness bombs the bridge to your kids' hearts and to their picture of God as Father. Compassion builds it. Luke 15 verse 20 gives a five step pattern any dad can follow. He saw, he was filled with compassion, he ran, he threw his arms around, he kissed. A consistent monthly daddy daughter date and a note in your own handwriting create anchors of memory your kids will carry into adulthood. Guest Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield is a licensed counselor, speaker, and the host of The Dad Whisperer podcast. She founded The Abba Project, a nine month group for dads of daughters between thirteen and thirty, and has spent the last fifteen plus years coaching fathers in the work of pursuing their daughters' hearts. She is the author of Dad, Here's What I Really Need from You and Let's Talk, and her writing on fatherhood has reached dads in all fifty states and around the world. Quotes  "You guys are wired with tender hearts. Tough and tender is a powerful combination as a man." Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield "Under mad is usually sad or scared or confused. Lead with your heart more than your head." Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield "Tell me more. That's how she gets it out, and then it's not there between you anymore." Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield "Defensiveness bombs the bridge. Compassion builds it. That's the work of fathering a daughter's heart." Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield "Anchors of memory in a place. Find one or two spots that become yours together with your daughter." Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield  

Anxiety and leadership often go hand in hand, whether a mom, an entrepreneur, or a corporate executive. If you are a leader, you have most likely experienced the fact that anxiety and leadership go hand-in-hand. The Dual Leadership Model™ is designed to help Christian women leaders and others break through anxiety-driven behaviors to lead with calm, confidence, and consistency. Christian Women Leaders You are capable. Driven. Accomplished. You lead a team, run a business, raise a family, or do all three at once. People look to you. You show up. You deliver. And yet, something feels off. Do you find yourself snapping at the people closest to you and then feeling a wave of shame? Maybe you lie awake running through every decision you made that day, wondering if you did enough. Perhaps you say yes when every part of you wants to say no — and then resent it later. Are you are exhausted in a way that sleep does not fix. Here is what no one is telling you: it is not a time management problem. It is not a discipline problem. And it is not a character flaw. It is a loop. And you have been stuck in it longer than you know. High-Achiever Celebration of Anxiety and Leadership What Is the Dual Leadership Loop Model™? The Dual Leadership Loop Model™ is built on a simple but profound truth: at any given moment, you are leading from one of two loops. Loop One: The Anxiety Response Loop The anxiety-driven behaviors at the center of the anxiety response loop: Perfectionism People-pleasing Need for control Defensiveness and overreacting Avoidance Imposter syndrome Comparison Loop Two: The Calm, Confident, and Consistent Leadership Loop The Calm, Confident, Consistent Leadership Loop produces: Clarity and confidence Steady, consistent decision-making Healthy, honest relationships Resilience without rigidity Sustainable growth without burnout The kind of leadership others want to follow The Neuroscience Behind the Anxiety Response Loop The Combination of Neuroscience and Faith For those of us who follow Christ, there is a layer to this that goes deeper than neuroscience. Five Shifts That Will Change How You Lead Anxiety-driven behaviors are your nervous system's way of trying to protect you. They are not character flaws — they are survival adaptations. You are not flawed. Anxiety is biological — not a personal failure. You did not choose it, but you can learn to work with it. Anxiety does not define you. Your identity is not your nervous system response. You are not stuck. You can choose a different response right now. Striving is not sustainable. Regulated leadership is. What to Expect in This Series Over the next six episodes, we are going to walk through each anxiety-driven behavior in the loop — people-pleasing, perfectionism, need for control, imposter syndrome, comparison, defensiveness, and avoidance. We will explore where each one comes from, what it is costing you, what the research says, and most importantly, how to move out of it. This is not a series about trying harder. It is a series about leading differently, better, and safer. Your Next Step as Christian Women Leaders Before the next episode, I want you to do one thing: pay attention and notice what is happening for you. Read the full show notes and access the reflection questions.

In this episode of DARE: The Time of Your Life, we are looking at Breaking New Ground. At an age when many people are beginning to look for the off switch, some over 50s are inspiring us by dreaming bigger than ever. Like our guest Jamie Durie. The landscape designer and TV host isn’t just 'not winding down', he’s completely upskilling and re-tooling. Join his conversation with host Jean Kittson alongside clinical psychologist and men’s mental health expert Dr Zac Seidler. About the episode – brought to you by Australian Seniors, in partnership with RSPCA. Join Jean Kittson for the seventh season of DARE: The time of your life (formerly Life’s Booming), called Better With Age. Too often ageing is painted as decline. In reality, Australians are living longer, healthier lives and reshaping what “older” looks like. This series flips the script and shows how ageing is not a dirty word but rather a time to be embraced, featuring interviews with extraordinary over 50s refusing to slip quietly into the background. Award-winning landscape designer and sustainability advocate Jamie Durie was once a performer with all-male revue group Manpower, before he realised his passion for horticulture and garden design. Now Jamie is navigating the beautiful chaos of a young family in his 50s, while revolutionising the way we build our homes in TV’s Jamie Durie’s Future House. Dr Zac Seidler is a clinical psychologist, researcher and leading men’s mental health expert. He currently holds dual roles as Global Director of Research at Movember and Associate Professor with Orygen at the University of Melbourne. Watch DARE: The Time of Your Life on YouTube Listen to DARE: The Time of Your Life on Apple Podcasts Listen to DARE: The Time of Your Life on Spotify For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency -- TRANSCRIPT: Jean Kittson: Welcome back to the podcast, DARE: the Time of Your Life, formerly Life's Booming, brought to you by Australian seniors in partnership with RSPCA. For more episodes, visit seniors.com au/podcast. Hi, I'm Jean Kittson, and this season is called Better With Age, where we are flipping the script and showing you how ageing is not a dirty word, rather it's a time to be embraced. In this episode, we are looking at Breaking New Ground. At an age when many people are beginning to look for the off switch, some over 50s are inspiring us by dreaming bigger than ever. Take our guest, Jamie Durie, the landscape designer and TV host isn't just not winding down, he's completely upskilling and retooling. From navigating the beautiful chaos of a young family in his fifties to revolutionising the way we build our homes with high tech prefab design, Jamie is living proof getting older doesn't automatically mean it's time to start downsizing. Also with us is Dr. Zac Seidler, a clinical psychologist and leading men's mental health expert. Zac is also global Director of Men's Health Research at Movember. Jamie and Zac, I'm so happy to welcome you both to the studio. Welcome. Jamie Durie: Thank you. Yeah, great to be here. Good to meet you, Zac. Zac Seidler: You too, Jamie. Can’t wait to chat. Jean Kittson: I know. Well, it's so exciting to hear what you're doing, Jamie, and you know when people are usually in their fifties, I suppose they start thinking about maybe slowing down or… never crossed your mind? Jamie Durie: Well, I think we, as men, and I'm hoping I'm not alone here, Zac. We only really start working it out in our 40s, and by the time you then reach 50, you go, Hmm, okay, now I know exactly where I wanna land and exactly what I wanna focus on. And I've got the experience behind me where I've made a few mistakes, learnt along the way, and I can apply with accuracy and shoot with a rifle – not a shotgun at your goals, if you like. Because the idea of, kind of, focusing in on the things that I think you’re most passionate about and that are most relevant in your place is, I think, distilling everything you've learned throughout your career. Jean Kittson: Yeah. It's something you come to with experience. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Jean Kittson: And as you say, making maybe some mistakes, but then refining, fine tuning where your passion is, is this, like what you are doing now with this prefab. Is it the Prefab housing where you are also doing something called the Infinity Garden? Jamie Durie: Yeah. Jean Kittson: What's… tell us about this project? Jamie Durie: Well this, you know, Future House is the name of the show, and we're now at Channel Nine, which is brilliant, and we've had an amazing season. Basically it's an exploration of modern methods of construction and if we are sitting in the building crisis right now, the housing crisis, and we've got, you know, 1.2 million homes to build over the next five years – how on earth are we gonna achieve that target when we're 87,000 trades short of achieving that target with our conservative ways of building houses? Our houses need to be more energy efficient. They need to be more cost effective. They need to be more structurally sound. They need to be more resilient with increased weather attacks, you know, over the last five, 10 years, we've all seen the floods, the fires, the storms all increasing. And then how do we make it more affordable for everyday Australians so that we can all, you know, get off this renting bus and actually start to own a piece of Australia and be proud of it, but make it more affordable. So that’s what it’s really about. Prefab has come a long way. We're no longer talking about those archaic old ‘kit homes’, they're now beautifully designed, sophisticated homes, some of them, which you can buy at a hardware store at Bunnings these days. Jean Kittson: Wow. Jamie Durie: I don't know whether you've seen that or not, but it's amazing what's happening in this space and we're playing catch up and we wanted to develop a format to talk about those where we could, you know, pass on some of these learnings and create intelligent DIY design where Australians could learn from what we are learning from and help progress the solutions around solving the building crisis. Jean Kittson: Well, I can hear that you are using all your background in, you know, gardens and landscaping and building, but also a maturity that, you know, and in experience and knowledge that comes with age as you personally. And then you taking this knowledge and experience and then putting it into the community for a really important community benefit. How does that… does that make you feel good about your work? Is that what you mean by focusing more, in your 50s? Jamie Durie: Oh, for sure. This is the show I've always wanted to make. Having worked on 56 primetime shows throughout my career, which is a lot, when you only started at kind of 28. It feels like everything's come full circle because, you know, we're not just inspiring people to take up new ideas, but we're instilling them with education and awareness around how to create more sustainable homes, how to tread more lightly on the planet, how to reduce our energy costs, how to tackle the cost of living crisis and how to get more Australian families into more homes faster. Jean Kittson: That's amazing. I mean, from a person… personally, that's a lot of work, Jamie. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Jean Kittson:You don't feel like you should be slowing down, spending more time, you know… Jamie Durie: …weirdly Jean Kittson: …pottering around. Jamie Durie: No, weirdly, the more I dive into this, the more passionate I become and passion creates energy. You know, it just comes from somewhere. You would know this, Zac. You know, I mean, what you guys have created is astonishing and the people's lives that you've touched through the funds raised throughout Movember is absolutely mind blowing. Zac Seidler: Thanks Jamie, I appreciate that. It's been a community effort in a very similar vein, and I think Australians can really get around that type of… Jamie Durie: …Yeah… Zac Seidler: …of grassroots community building when you provide them with the right resources to do so. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: But I love the idea that, you know, I don't, I think that slowing down, that idea of becoming 50 or 60 and starting to slow down, especially because life expectancy is increasing – thank God. Jamie Durie: …Yeah… Zac Seidler: …We're moving, you know, into longer lives, hopefully healthier lives as well. The data is pretty clear that when men start to slow down, bad things happen, to be honest. Retirement is not a good vibe for lots of guys because they have not built the scaffolding around them. They often haven't spent a lot of time with their friends or family over the years because they've been in this provider protector mode for so long, that when it slows down, they go, okay, I'm gonna play golf, I guess, or something and I've never played it before. And how does this work? And who are the guys I'm gonna call? And so, I really like the idea of seeing eras of your life and the fact that as you are maturing and ageing, you are becoming more dynamic in ways and kind of getting rid of the stuff that was a waste of energy, the stress, the anxiety, the trying to do a thousand things at once that I'm probably still doing and hopefully we'll get rid of at some point. But that ability to work out where you want to spend your time and energy for, you know, the next era and then there'll be another one after. That's so important. And I think, you know, Movember has been around for over 20 years and we're now moving into the next stage. We were just this young kid on the block, you know, kind of breaking stuff and trying to work out what's the best way to show up in the charity space and really change men's lives, and it started with a practical joke. It starts with, with something that everyone… Jean Kittson: …A pun, yeah. Zac Seidler: A pun. Exactly. And it moves from that conversation starter really into thousands of programs and a billion dollars plus that we've fundraised over the years. And so many people say that men don't wanna get around this stuff. You know, it's like, oh… Typically it is women leading charity dinners and doing fundraising events and we kind of broke that mould and suggested that if you provide the right framework, something that is about banter and community and mateship and the things that matters to guys and their health. You know, health by stealth is always what we say… Jean Kittson: Yeah, health by stealth… Zac Seidler: Go around, don't hit them on the head with the thing. Jean Kittson: No, Jamie Durie: …that's right. Jean Kittson: Start in a light way with a light, you know, an idea that's fun. And then dig a bit deeper. Jamie Durie: And it's the path of least resistance, isn't it? Because I grew up watching Magnum PI. And there's a Tom Selleck in all of us, where we desperately wanted to grow that mustache, but just didn't feel like there was enough reason to, and this gives us the excuse. Jen Kittson: Yeah. Jamie Durie: To go, oh, I'm doing something good. And I'm also exploring this mustache, which could look terrible on me, but it also could look fantastic. And my Mrs might love it! Zac Seidler: I love the wives and the girlfriends who are just like, ‘make this stop!’ every year. But that is the joy of this thing. And some people find that they can grow a beautiful mustache. We had a whole campaign called Shit Mo’s Save Lives. You've got this wispy thing. It doesn't matter. Jean Kittson: It doesn't matter! Jamie Durie: Growing a mustache doesn't happen overnight. No. And so there's this constant reminder of the cause. And bringing people back, bringing people's minds back every time you look in the mirror, oh, that's why I'm doing this because I'm raising money for this cause. Zac Seidler: And we also want to get around the idea that, you know, November is one month of the year. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: We're lucky to have the pun to stand behind. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: But this is an all-year situation. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: You know, there are guys, whether it's prostate cancer, testicular cancer, mental health and, and suicide prevention, lots of the things that we work in, they don't come and go, you know? They are a part of men's health. They're a part of our families. Our wives deal with them, our children manage this stuff. And so we wanna make this an all year round conversation, and it just gets supercharged in November. Jean Kittson: So what would you say to men who perhaps think they can just stop everything or they've had to stop everything because of health or their age or their jobs finished because of their age and they think they can go out to play golf. But then as you say, they may not have the friends around because they haven't stayed in touch with them, or that. So how do men find a new purpose? Because I think what you are doing, Jamie, is really a progression, a development of everything you've been doing in your past. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Jean Kittson: But some men have just spent their whole lives doing one thing. And then suddenly that stops. So how do they find a new sort of purpose, or how can they build on the skills, the knowledge they have? Zac Seidler: Yeah. Jean Kittson: What, what do you say to them? Zac Seidler: I'm very keen for Jamie's thoughts, but the way that I see it, because I see a lot of men in their 50s, 60s… It's funny because lots of guys now are having their midlife crisis in their 30s, which is kind of good because they still have the time to pivot accordingly. But what happens is that, when we get into the 60s, 70s, even, even 80s –– my grandpa's 96 and still kicking; he’s around. He goes into his office every day. I have no idea what he does, but he goes to work, right? So there's a part of that purpose that comes from that, but it's about an expansion really, which is that if you are myopic and you have this singular vision of who you are, and this is all that you can do, when that thing ends, whether you are fired, made redundant, you know, you retire, whatever might take place, you know we're in shifting times at the moment, and without that foresight and without the vulnerability to go, who am I? Taking pause going, who am I? What matters to me? What are my values and how can I go about, you know, picking and choosing lots of different things to spend my time doing, whether that's family, friends, hobbies… You know, it shouldn't just come when you click pause and you go, who am I now? What am I supposed to do? Because that is going to breed catastrophe. It's terrifying for all of us. You need to work your way up to it and realise, there is, each day, a chance to kind of do a little bit more in different fields of your life, water the ground in different areas, and realise that if you are, you know, you can be a one track, you can be a one corporation man your entire life. There's nothing wrong with that. But if it comes at the cost of you never prioritising your kids or your friends or your hobbies, that's just not really what we're here for. We're here to do many different things and to expand and grow. And I always find it very interesting. There's this trope that men don't talk, they don't want to go to therapy, they don't want to discuss what's happening in their lives. And I always, whenever a guy comes in and he is a bit, you know, doesn't have all the words, he grunts a bit. He's silent most of the time. I'm like, why are we here if not to understand ourselves? Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: And I think that lots of guys, when they get into those later years, they start to do that work, but it'd be lovely if they could do it a bit earlier. Jamie Durie: I didn't start my career in, you know, finding our future version of our house, you know, like what is the modern method of construction? I'd started in a very different space, where I was in Las Vegas dancing with an all male group called Manpower. You know? Jean Kittson: Dancing very well! Zac Seidler: Well, various people said, you need to talk to Jamie about this. You brought it up, not me! Jamie Durie: No, no. And, but listen, they were the greatest years of my life and, you know, I started when I was 16. I was lucky enough to meet, along my travels, and we toured 14 different countries and played to, you know, sometimes 8,000 women a night at various Zac Seidler: …and that one guy that was forced to be there! Jamie Durie: …entertainment centers… Yeah, in Sun City, in South Africa and Hong Kong and all over the place. And, I got to see a lot of the world, many, many times. Circumnavigated the globe many times before I was even 21. And I think, travel's been, you know, my greatest teacher. They say it's the university of life. And so by the time I got to sort of 23, I was like, okay, what do I really wanna do with my life? And weirdly, I met a garden designer, by the name of Paul Bengay and we got talking. Jean Kittson: Yeah. Jamie Durie: And he took me to his garden design studio and he said, ‘this is what I do,’ and I said, you design gardens for a living. This is amazing. So not only could I help heal the planet by planting more trees. But I can also do it in a creative way that would stimulate the creative side of myself. Right? So before I left Manpower, I enrolled into a horticultural course for four years, and there was that overlap effect where I was still doing shows. Still producing calendars. Jean Kittson: Yeah. Jamie Durie: …and my teachers had copies of my calendar. My horticultural teachers had copies of my calendar in their, in their staff room. And they were laughing at the fact that I was, you know, turning up to school every week, learning the names of plants – three and a half thousand of them – and, and throughout that period, you know, I didn't really graduate until I'd sort of reached, I think 30, but those last few years of my life where I was still doing shows at the Crown Casino in Melbourne and, and Las Vegas in the summer in in America… but I was going to school and studying. That's the pivot. That is… there's that overlap effect. Jean Kittson: Yeah. Overlap, yeah. Jamie Durie: Find what you are passionate about. Start seeding that idea, pushing your way into what is it that I next wanna do and move. And I think my love for the environment started way back then. And then morphed into what I'm doing today. And there's been that overlap into, okay, how are we gonna repair the planet as well? So, you know, I've overlapped the next section of my career out of horticulture and then into environmental work, you know, so I'm… Zac Seidler: It’s so, so values driven. And that's the thing, you know, you see young guys now who all want to be entrepreneurs and I end up seeing them because they're struggling to kind of reach this status that they believe they should reach in order to be successful. But it's get rich quick. And what you're describing is time, it's time, it's effort. Jamie Durie: Yeah Zac Seidler: It requires an understanding of what matters to you. And trial and error and failure and all of that stuff. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: Which eventually. That all is the making of a man, you know? Yeah, yeah. Over time and you, you did two things at once, because you've gotta make a living. You've gotta try to work out what matters to you, where you're gonna go next, and you just keep following those open doors rather than going, this has to happen now. Jamie Durie: Oh yeah. Yeah. I remember. I remember doing a Samsung campaign. I was naked. And I was, I was, I finished that campaign and then I'd, I'd literally the next, that afternoon was at Ryde horticultural college studying plants. But, you know, something had to pay the rent, right? Jean Kittson: Yeah that's right… Jamie Durie: …you kind of... Jean Kittson: … it looks like a world, world apart, but you were able to do that. Jamie Durie: …Yeah. Jean Kittson: …follow both. Do this thing you had to do… Jamie Durie: But Zac, you've pointed out something there, which I think is quite important. And I think it sits in all of us as genuine human beings and it's cause-related drive. And the advertising industry call is called this CRM: cause related marketing. But cause-related drive sits in all of us. And when we suddenly tap into something that we feel like… is supporting community, supporting the planet, supporting your fellow human being. There's a different drive inside you that kicks in. You've got it. That's what's driven you with, with your group, over the years. I've got it there. There's, so if you can tap into what is your cause-related drive, you don't really have to find the energy. Zac Seidler: Mm-hmm. Jamie Durie: It finds you… Zac Seidler: That, that is exactly how I feel. Like, lots of people roll their eyes when they ask me, are you, you know, what's your job like, what's a dream job? And I'm like, I'm in it. I'm living it. Jamie Durie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Zac Seidler: And no one wants to hear this positivity for some reason. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: I'm like, everyone wants to complain all the time. And I'm like. No, I've, I'm having a good time. It's con–– it's nimble, it's constantly dynamic. It changes every day. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: The lives of men, the, the man that shows up in, in front of me, he changes every moment. Let alone all of the other guys around him in the same way that nature constantly adapts over time. Jamie Durie: Yeah. You know, Zac, you're underselling yourself a little bit because Movember started here in Australia. Zac Seidler: Mm-hmm. In 2003. Jamie Durie: Yeah. But now how many countries does it here? Zac Seidler: Over 20. Jamie Durie: And you've raised how much? Zac Seidler: Over a billion Australian. Jamie Durie: That is a huge impact, and those funds get distributed. How… and are you part of the decision making process around that? Zac Seidler: Yeah. Jamie Durie: Tell me, tell me about that. Zac Seidler: So, I, so I lead our research team. So we've got, you know, 20 PhDs across the globe who are asking questions around what's going on for men, what's happening when they engage with health systems; you know, what's happening for new dads? You know, how, how is the GP gonna ask questions about it? To a dad who might be experiencing postnatal depression… Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: …but isn't aware of it. We're looking at the manosphere in social media to make, you know, men's lives a bit easier so they don't get tricked into some of this stuff, which is… Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: …which is harming them. So I get to do the research. Then we've got an entire program’s team where we're going to the community, grassroots, and creating programs in local footy clubs for coaches, parents, and young guys… Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: …to understand the signs, spot the signs, be able to talk with one another when they're struggling. Upskill community, fundamentally, around what to look for. Because I'm sure back in your days, that idea of, like, guys getting around one another at the pub and talking about what is bothering them… Jean Kittson: Yeah, no… Zac Seidler: …what they're feeling, what matters to them, how they wanna show up in their families with their mates. It's a new conversation and we're trying to provide the language for lots of these guys to be able to have those chats. So, we build all of these different programs with community partners. You know, we are not doing this alone. We stand on the shoulders of giants, definitely. But it's just this, this humility, this Australian way kind of where we just find our way into, into grassroots organisations, in York, in the UK, we're in California, in the States, we're in Toronto. We just work out what's working there and we try and ramp it up with them, with the funds that we've raised. Jamie Durie: Yeah. So good. Jean Kittson: Mm-hmm. It is so good. Imagine that it's very regenerative too, because it sounds like there… that at any age you can sort of discover yourself. Zac Seidler: Yeah. Jean Kittson: And find your passion and find the cause that drives you. And this would, so when, when men would reach a certain age, some of them haven't had any relationships – you know, the sort of intimate relationship with their families that a mother might have and their kids. Zac Seidler: Yeah. Jean Kittson: So then they're suddenly in a grandparent role. Then they've, then they've, they've gotta relearn how to connect emotionally, I suppose. Zac Seidler: But you see that, you see, it's beautiful. And I think the, the grandparents, the grandfather's situation in this generation is really unique. Where you see a lot of kids get a bit angry because they're like, I never got this attention. But the way in which grandfathers are going, oh, I was a career man and I spent all day, every day, I missed out on bath time. I didn't get to go and, and watch, you know, him play soccer. I didn't get to do any of these things. And now they're trying to re-parent themselves in a way. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: And take back those opportunities that was, you know, taken from them because they weren't purposeful, they weren't able to go, what is actually possible here, and that's also what Movember is trying to do, is open those doors and say, being a man does not mean living within these constraints that you have been sold. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: Because they are harming you. Jean Kittson: Yeah. Zac Seidler: They're fundamentally harming you. There's a reason that men die four years younger than women in Australia. That's a big gap, and it largely comes down to preventable reasons. Jamie Durie: …Yeah.. Jean Kittson: …yeah… Zac Seidler: …yeah. Jamie Durie: I'm father to three children. My first child, I had in my early 20s, and I'm a much better father now in my 50s than I was when I was 20, right. And I find very, very early on in my career, I was looking into a great speaker by the name of Anthony Robbins. We've all, we all know who Anthony, but he, there was one little nugget of wisdom that he shared with some of some of his followers, and that was the ‘wheel of life’. And within that wheel of life, you would have community, spirituality, friendship, family, career all that stuff helps the wheel go around. And if one of those pieces of pie was not, kind of, out to its extremity, the wheel doesn't roll. And so I've mentally kind of always tried to keep that check in my life. But more so these days because, it's funny, the more time you put into your kids, the more worthwhile your life feels. It's incredible what they teach you. Zac Seidler: Yeah. Jamie Durie: And I just feel like now I'm, I'm going to battle for my family every day rather than just myself. So it's a much less selfish way of life. But also we've got an enormous responsibility to raise these kids in the very best way that we possibly can and to keep bettering ourselves as parents and humans on a day-to-day basis so that that stuff spills over to them and they become great custodians of the planet and great, great movers and shakers and whatever, whatever it is they want to do. Jean Kittson: Whatever, yes. Jamie Durie: You know, and you've gotta instill that stuff to them, I think. Zac Seidler: So many people ask me to define, like, healthy manhood or masculinity. Because we're talking, we, we so often talk about toxicity and what is broken and what is wrong, and men doing bad things, which takes place. But we don't really have an aspiration. We don't have a message around what is possible. And I think that idea of being in constant sync around this notion of growth that comes in multiple ways within your life, there are all of these quadrants, there are all of these parts of yourself that it doesn't, it's not a day-to-day thing, necessarily. You know, sometimes you're gonna be working really hard and you're not gonna be able to, to be there at dinner, but what do you do to recalibrate the next day? Jean Kittson: Yeah. Zac Seidler: How do you find ways to make sure that that thing is in sync? Jamie Durie: Yeah, Zac Seidler: …because that's what drives distress in guys, and that's what they're not necessarily aware of that when some of those quadrants are falling away. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: … They are feeling less like themselves. Jamie Durie: Yes. Zac Seidler: And it drives them potentially to do some things that are, that are not in their best interest. Like if you're feeling like you're not being the best dad, lots of men start drinking more. Lots of men start pulling themselves away more because their kids start to, you know, rebel. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: When instead what is actually required is a leaning in, and that is that vulnerability that is required rather than this guilt pulling back and saying. This is not for me. Jean Kittson: …Defensiveness… Zac Seidler: Exactly. And you see that in, in a lot of guys. You see it a lot, a lot of women as well, which is this: You're feeling challenged. You're feeling like you're not living the life that you thought you were supposed to, and so you keep repelling further in the opposite direction rather than saying, maybe I'm a bit off kilter here and I should, I should recalibrate and work out what, what matters and have the conversations. And I want guys… lots of guys do this with their wives. It ends up being so much emotional burden on the women because the guys don't have deep male friendships where they can go and have these chats with other guys without feeling like a failure. Have you got guys in your life where you feel like you can, really… Jamie Durie: Oh, totally… Zac Seidler: …get into it? Jamie Durie: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. My best mate and I, ironically, we danced together back in the Vegas days. So we've been mates since, you know, I was 20 and we talk probably three times a week. He's a dental technician. Zac Seidler: How far you've both come! Jamie Durie: Yeah. Yeah. He's there making the most extraordinary little pieces of technical equipment that, you know, dentures and things for people that gives them self-esteem and pride and function and health and stuff, which is quite amazing. He's such a talented dexterous man, but he's constantly sitting in his laboratory, in his studio, you know, tinkering away. So he'll just call me in the middle of him making that stuff and I can hear that he's in the studio and I might be in a very different studio with TV, cameras rolling or whatever. But we always find ways to communicate and lean on each other when we need it most. And, and we have over the years, it's been great. Yeah. Jean Kittson: So you can be very vulnerable with him. Jamie Durie: Oh God, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, he's got skeletons in that, we will take to the vault! Zac Seidler: Right. And that's what it's built, it's built on time. And energy and… Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: …realising that you need to invest in this stuff. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: And you see that, you know, you, you get 15-, 16-year-olds whose, whose friends are everything to them. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: And then they go into university. Slowly but surely they get into the workforce, they move into parenthood and it just starts to drop away. And you often see the wife is the one who is leading the social calendar. Jean Kittson: Yes, always. Zac Seidler: They're the ones who are looking after everything. They're making all of the calls. And you know, they start to believe, these men, that they actually are not capable of this stuff when, you know, they're a CEO… they're doing really complex things during the day and suddenly they can't call their friends to like arrange a beer on a Saturday night? What is that? And so I think it is, it's a muscle that needs working out… Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: …over time. And it needs to be prioritised. Because consistently, you look at the Harvard Longitudinal Study, which is an incredible study, started in the 30s, still going. Jamie Durie: Mm-hmm. Zac Seidler: The guys who are still alive, they're in their 90s. They had quality friendships. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: It didn't matter if they smoked, how they exercised, what their jobs were, all that stuff… Jean Kittson: Really? Zac Seidler: …it washes away. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: We are human beings who require socialising. We require to be with one another, and that's why the loneliness crisis that happens for lots of older guys, older women as well, feeling so isolated, feeling like you don't have any purpose anymore. You know, Men's Sheds, it's a group that we work really closely with. Jean Kittson: Yeah, they're great. Zac Seidler: Incredible. Jean Kittson: Yeah. Zac Seidler: Yeah. And they have, they have women coming in now. You're tinkering, you're doing something. You've got mates there. Jamie Durie: Yeah. It's great. Zac Seidler: It gives you something. We need more of that. I feel like those third spaces, those, those sheds, those community halls, they're just like evaporating. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: It's a real problem. Jean Kittson: Yeah. Well, we used to see a lot more community gardens. I don't see them so much anymore. We often talk about work-life balance, but when you were talking about the wheel or… Zac Seidler: mm-hmm. Jean Kittson: …and with all these different segments, I mean, because that's what life is. It's more complicated. It's not just life over there and work there and you try and balance it out. You've gotta feed all these different elements of your life. Jamie Durie: Yes. Zac Seidler: Because work life balance makes it seem like life is 50% and work is 50%. Jean Kittson: Yeah, it does. Zac Seidler: When in fact it's actually work should be 20, and 20 and 20. You've got all of these little things. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Yes. It is about creating balance within your life and if you, you know, anyone can do a quick equation of the various facets in your life and go, Ooh, I need to put a little bit more family time in here. Or, when was the last time I called my mum or my dad? Or, you know, when was the last time I took my kids to the park and, and played with them and, and gave them a good time? And, and so you, you gotta constantly keep a check of yourself, but also you gotta look after your own mental health so that you can be a better father for them, right? I surf every Sunday with a group of guys that age between oh, 50, 52 through to 74. Zac Seidler: Wow. Jamie Durie: In fact. Probably one of the best surfers in our group. He's had a double hip replacement. Jean Kittson: Oh I love that… Jamie Durie: …And he's a better… he's a better surfer than I am, he's awesome. Jean Kittson: …That's so great. Jamie Durie: …Oh yeah, if you can hear me now, Tones, this is a big plug for you, bro. Jean Kittson:Yeah. Jamie Durie: But I went and bought a new longboard yesterday and I was–– I couldn't wait to get out there at 7.30am with the boys just to kind of share this new longboard with them. And we had a great old time. We caught plenty of waves and then we go to breakfast together and that's what my partner Ameka calls ‘church’ for us, right. So she's like, go and have some boy time. See you at lunch. Zac Seidler: Because it's ritualised. Jamie Durie: It is, yeah. And I've been doing it, you know, 12, 15 years now and I really crave it. Zac Seidler: Yeah, because you don't have to pick up the phone and go, are we doing it this week? It's on, it's on. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Right. Oh yeah. And, and, and there's probably 30 of us altogether. Usually only 10 or 12 or even sometimes six turn up, you know? Jean Kittson:That's wonderful. Jamie Durie: But every so often they all, you know, one or two of them pop in and some of them are doctors, some of them come from the oil industry, some come from the textiles. Others are property valuers and all sorts of people. It's amazing. How many extraordinary high achieving blokes still require this – we all need church, I think. Jean Kittson: That ritual, that going, being able to gather when you want to without making an appointment… Jamie Durie: That's right. Jean Kittson: …And being together. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Jean Kittson: I think one thing about your work, Jamie, I would say is that when we were talking before about men retiring and then going home, and then the wife taking over. Your work has always been around creating spaces around people's homes. Your own homes. Your garden and everything. So that's your domain. But for many men, they would leave work and the home is not their domain. Jamie Durie: Mm. Jean Kittson: It's like they're an alien in that environment because that's been the woman's domain and she's taking care of it. But you are, you are lucky because that's so familiar to you. And you have so much input in it. Jamie Durie: Mm. Jean Kittson: In fact, you're probably, it's probably your domain more than anything. Jamie Durie: I have a little too much input! And, so much so that, you know, we have to remind each other because Ameka loves interior design and so I've had to kinda let go a little bit and let her, you know, play with the interiors and all that, and she's done a great job. And, you know we have found a good niche in each other's careers because of that. I think you gotta, you know, make everyone feel like they're part of the end equation, you know? Jean Kittson: Yeah, Jamie Durie: yeah. Jean Kittson: Well, well, growing up, my dad was a DIY so he had a big –– he, you know, he basically built our house. You know. Nothing ever worked, but, you know, we had seven doors opening onto the loungeroom, I think. But he was as much part of the domestic life… Jamie Durie: yeah. Jean Kittson: …as, as my mother was. Zac Seidler: I just don't, I don't buy it that these rules and regulations that have been passed down by someone that we're not really aware of around what women should do and what men should do. You know, Venus and Mars, it just doesn't benefit anybody. Jean Kittson: No… Zac Seidler: …and this is the thing. There are some people who are just gonna be better at certain things. And, you know, my wife is much better with a drill than I am. Jean Kittson: That's right! Zac Seidler: Give up. Yep. Like I've, I've worked it out… Jamie Durie: Good on ya’ mate! I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna attempt it in the way that she does. I'm lefthanded. I'm probably gonna cut off a finger. I'm gonna let her have her day. Jamie Durie: Yeah. With a drill. He's gonna cut off a finger! Yeah. I like that. Jean Kittson: Okay. Hello. Jamie Durie: He really doesn't use tools. Jean Kittson: Well picked up. Zac Seidler: You got it. You got it. Live and learn! Jamie Durie: I gotta ask, Zac, you know, we, mental health of course is a huge part of our, elongating our lives, right. And I have to ask, what role does stress have in that? And also what role does the foods that we eat play into the health of our minds and our bodies? Zac Seidler: Well, I think that we went through a period, you know, early on in the 20th century where we started to split the mind and the body, and that was not a smart move. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: And we are very much ricocheting back away from that and realising that everything needs to be calibrated, and they all affect one another in a cause-and-effect kind of way. That's why everyone, any psychologist worth their salt will bang on first and foremost about sleep and diet… Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: …and exercise. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: …really. And it's funny because they're like, oh no, I just wanna talk about my feelings. And I'm like, no, if you don't get this stuff in order, there is no point in getting into the deeper stuff because this is going to create the foundations of wellbeing for you. Jamie Durie: That's right. Zac Seidler: Fundamentally, the fuel that you are putting in – and fuel comes through sleep, through exercise, through diet, and nutrition. And I think that we are at a point because of cost of living stuff, especially… Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: …where everyone is, is trying to make their way and, and survive as best they can. And because of time and work and families, food just kind of drops off. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: And so it becomes easier to do, you know, quickfire meals that are probably much worse for you. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: Whether it's sodium or sugar or whatever it is. And that has a fundamental effect on your sleep. It has a fundamental effect on your mood. And really the more stressed you are, the more calorie rich food you kind of end up wanting. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: Whenever you've had a tough day, you're gonna go for the chocolate because you’re like trying to manage… Jamie Durie: Yeah. Yeah. Zac Seidler: …and so trying to get ahead of that stuff. By building in… You know, I'm a very ritualised person because if I… you know, Obama and Steve Jobs, all these people, they always talk about trying to get rid of the grey in your day, which is like, Steve Jobs wore the same thing every day because he wanted to think about something else… Jean Kittson: right? Zac Seidler: …I've eaten the same breakfast and lunch pretty much every day for 20 years because I have other things to deal with and it's the best way that I'm gonna go to the shops and I'm gonna ensure that I have a nutritious meal. Because I'm doing the same thing and everyone goes, don't you get bored? Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: And I go, well, I'm still alive, so no, I'm alright. Jamie Durie: Steve, I heard a Steve Jobs statement the other day and you don't often hear him, speak in this way, but he said, make food your medicine or medicine will be your food. Jean Kittson: Oh… Jamie Durie: …isn't that an awesome statement? Jean Kittson: …Clever. Jamie Durie: Yeah. And I've not heard that before. And then I started looking into some of his interviews in more detail. Do you know that none of his kids had devices? Zac Seidler: None. None. No one who owns a tech company, their kids never touch devices. Full stop. Jamie Durie: That's, that says it right there, right? Zac Seidler: Yeah. Jamie Durie: I mean, I wrote a book years ago, and it was called Outdoor Kids and it was about getting kids off TV games and devices and back out into the garden again, where I grew up. Zac Seidler: Mm-hmm. Jamie Durie: And I find that when I'm, I'm suffering stress or anxiety. I put my hands into the earth and I start weeding or planting or whatever, and suddenly within an hour or two, I'm back. I'm, I feel earthed, I feel… . Jean Kittson: …Grounded? Jamie Durie: I feel grounded and I've let go of all that stress into the earth. And there's a theory now about forest bathing. Zac Seidler: Mm-hmm. Jamie Durie: Which I'm sure you've heard about where, you know, you can go on a trip to Japan and walk through the forest for a minimum of four hours per day for two weeks, and it improves your immune system and helps fight tumors and infections and things and adds so much to your mental health that, and I think we're now just discovering the benefits that nature has, that plays within our health. Zac Seidler: Well, we're trying to create science around something that is obvious. Which is, which is the thing, we've created all of this infrastructure that is actually ruining our lives, and now we're trying to peel it back and go back to basics, which is, you know, the, back in my day, we used to play on the street and would hang around with different generations of kids and do all that stuff. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: And now you know, the fog is really what you're… it descends from the phones. That's the iPads and the television. It's this notion of… Jamie Durie: yeah. Zac Seidler: …detachment from who you are and who you want to be. And we see this with young kids, the longer they spend on social media, the more they are unable to actually access their own wants and needs. Because… Jamie Durie: …they're the less functional they are when they get out into the real workplace as well. Zac Seidler: Fundamentally. It takes, so it takes so much time to relearn these things. Jamie Durie: There was a professor that wrote a book called ‘The last child in the woods’. You know, I developed this theory called the outdoor room, where you would convert your kitchen into an outdoor space, your living room, into an outdoor space, your bathroom, your bedroom, so that everything was connected to nature and you would spend more time out outdoors, being reconnected with nature through your everyday functions. Jean Kittson: Beautiful. Jamie Durie: And I used to talk about this, like, let's take the roof off our house, and then instill plants into our everyday lives. Think of your backyard like that. And that was what I used to model the outdoor room theory on. Now I want to take this to another level where we talk about, you know, health and wellbeing and fitness and how do we take exercise into the outdoors? How do we, how do we then start to, you know, control the food that goes into our children's mouths and our family's mouths, reduce pesticides and herbicides, get rid of glyphosates. What role does that play into keeping our bodies healthy enough, to be able to withstand stressful times and so forth, you know? Zac Seidler: Mm-hmm. Jamie Durie: … there been any studies within your funding groups…? Zac Seidler: …yeah… Jamie Durie: …in the past where, you've seen a direct correlation between stress and the increase of disease and poor health? Zac Seidler: Oh, yeah. It's the strongest causation you can possibly find, right. It drives cancer, it drives heart disease, it drives stroke. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: You know, fundamentally the more stressful your life is, the more cortisol you've got running through your veins. The lower your life expectancy is. Jamie Durie: Yeah. And, and I used to live off stress, like… Jean Kittson: …the adrenaline. Yeah. Jamie Durie: ... that adrenaline rush… I loved it. I loved, you know, and the, and oh, we may not get this garden done on time or, you know, or I may not get this project finished in time. Like, and so, the older I get, the more I realised, wow, this is not the goal. The goal is to minimise stress down to zero. And that's the only way we're gonna maintain strong health. Zac Seidler: And how we respond to stress…. Jamie Durie: Yes. Zac Seidler: …Like the more stress you have, the worse you are at responding to it. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: And that's why you see lots of guys who are just like exploding because they just don't how to regulate that stuff because they don't have the energy. They don't have the coping mechanisms, they don't have the people to call on. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: But the more you realise what it is… There's so many guys I talk to and I, I go, do you get stressed about things? And they're like, no, I, I've never felt anxiety before. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: And they're sitting there and their leg is shaking. Jean Kittson: Yeah, yeah. Zac Seidler: I'm like, they're… Jean Kittson: …can’t articulate it… Zac Seidler: They’re so detached from their own reality. Jean Kittson: …can’t articulate it… Oh, they're, detached… Zac Seidler: …exactly…Yeah. And so being able to get to the point where we realise and we're not afraid of stress because there is a certain amount of it that actually leads to better performance. You know, this effect of going into an exam, if you don't have a bit of butterflies… you know they're useful sometimes. Jean Kittson: Of course it focuses you… Zac Seidler: before a performance, it's good. But then it's called the ‘yerkes-dodson curve’, which is, it goes up, and your performance goes up, you’ve got a bit of nerves, it's pretty good for you. You hit this precipice, and the second you go past that. You suddenly can't see. You're in an exam. You can't think straight. You're in front of camera and you lose your words. Jamie Durie: Mm-hmm. Zac Seidler: That's when stress is tipped over and that's when… A little bit is good at getting you out of bed, getting you going. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: Because you're excited. You know, excitement and anxiety can go hand in hand. But there's just a little bit that is good, and then too much that really has long-term effects on you. Jamie Durie: Mm-hmm. Zac Seidler: Yeah. Jamie Durie: Mm-hmm. Jean Kittson: What do you say to men who, maybe you have lived on adrenaline and have had all this pressure and all this stress, and then suddenly it stops, and then that withdrawal from the adrenaline. How do you manage that suddenly, do people find another stress to fill it, fill up that adrenaline? What do they do when they're suddenly taken away? Is it like a void or a vacuum? Or…? Zac Seidler: It can be, it can be very difficult. You know, no doubt, Jamie, when you moved past that and you had a moment of pause and were like looking back at those years and realising how overwhelmed you probably were, and constantly going and churning your… everything kind of just becomes this, this muscle that is moving towards survival. And when you realise that you're actually not enjoying anything, that you're not in the moment at all, lots of those guys – and that often happens much later on in life because they keep going until they run out of steam. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: And then there's this vacuum, there's this, this hole underneath them, and they don't have the skills to be able to pick up new things and fill that. Jamie Durie: Yep. Zac Seidler: You know, in some ways… So we want to get to the point where guys are realising, are connecting with that feeling within themselves that maybe the past 2, 3, 4 weeks have been really full on… Jamie Durie: Mm-hmm. Zac Seidler: …And having the language to be able to say to someone, I need to pause here. I need to realise, I need to recalibrate. I need to work out what's happening. Jamie Durie: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I wish someone had told me at 21 that stress was so destructive. Because I think that's something, you know, I've learned over, over time and I've watched some of my friends go into poor health, through, you know, their lack of dealing with stress. Zac Seidler: Yeah…. Jamie Durie: But Zac Seidler: We need the skills. We need the skills. At school, you should be teaching stress reduction, you know? Jamie Durie: Yeah, Jean Kittson: exactly. I have a friend who does mindfulness, part of her lessons, so she senses – she's a drama teacher of course – and you know my age, so we have the experience and we can look back and go, this stress we put on our children is just way too much. So she senses a class is really stressed. She won't do a normal lesson, she'll just relax them. Zac Seidler: Nice. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Jean Kittson: Which is a really, you know, but that she's rare, but this is what we should be doing and… Jamie Durie: …yeah… Jean Kittson: …And I think we've got, we are at our age, we've got this… Not our age, I'm older than you, Jamie! But you know, as you get older, we've got the skills. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Jean Kittson: We've got the experience to be able to say how, what's important in life. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Jean Kittson: And you talking about in… in my day, we'd hug trees and it was sort of like a bit of a joke, but it was. A really beautiful thing to do. Jamie Durie: Yes. Jean Kittson: I do it outside the studio before I come in. There's some really old paper barks, you know, there, they, they must be a hundred years old. Did you notice them coming in? Jamie Durie: I know they're, they're all through this area. Yeah. Jean Kittson: They're incredible. And they're growing out of asphalt and I always give them a bit of a hug, and go, Good on you… Jamie Durie: Yeah. Jean Kittson: …I don't know how you've survived! And it just, that moment of connection with nature and you just have to value that and recognise it and thank nature for what it does, because as you say, all this technology, if you are going straight from an office back home to the telly or something… Jamie Durie: …It's incredible how well they survive, by the way, these paperbacks in these streets. Jean Kittson: …Aren’t they amazing. Jamie Durie: You're right, the pathways go right up to them, and you would think that the soils would become anaerobic, but Melaleuca quinquenervia – our paper bark tree is – is probably one of the most stoic trees in our system and our indigenous use the bark to wrap their fish and their food up and they would cook their food wrapped in the paper bark. Right? And it's got so many brilliant uses, but they've also got nitrogen fixing nodules and a whole range of survival techniques that other non-native trees don't have. So, you know, one of my pet hates is why did we, why are we planting London Plane trees, platanus hybrida, are all through our streets, which, which are, you know… Zac Seidler: …Causes us asthma… Jamie Durie: So, yeah. Causes asthma, gives us all hay fever – I get hay fever from them – when we could be planting these native trees that require zero care and they still thrive their heads off, you know. Zac Seidler: Finally, the paperback chat we all needed. Jean Kittson: Yeah. That's what we needed. Jamie Durie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jean Kittson: If only we, you know, treated ourselves like a paper bark, if we had nitrogen nodules, you know? Jamie Durie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jean Kittson: I mean, if we understood ourselves, when you talk about trees and plants like this and your knowledge of them and how they, how they exist and how they, you know, how they grow. We need that knowledge about ourselves. From a very early age. Jamie Durie: That's right. Jean Kittson: So we can recognise what we need to do… Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: So that we can enjoy. And this is the thing, it's, you are not going to gain that knowledge from a standing start in your 60s. Jamie Durie: No, that's right. Zac Seidler: You need to, it needs to be a lifelong lesson of what matters to me. How am I moving through the world? How do I grow? How am I going to understand how I tick? And those things cannot come when you retire. Jamie Durie: That's right. That's right. Zac Seidler: They need, they need to come much earlier on and they need to be instilled so that we're not just churning our way, you know, to the end. Jamie Durie: You're right, it's that evolution. It's those, it's the teaching, it's the experience. It's falling down, picking yourself up again. It's making all those mistakes and then coming full circle into where we are today and, and then passing down some of those learnings, to as many people as you can. That's what it's all about. Jean Kittson: Yeah, definitely. That's our responsibility, isn't it, as we get older, is to share what we've learned. Jamie Durie: Yep. Jean Kittson: And hope that our children or grandchildren don't make the same mistakes. Jamie Durie: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Jean Kittson: So, Jamie, what would you say to someone who was maybe hitting their 50s and feeling like they're winding down or they're stuck or something, or, I mean, you just took that huge leap in your 20s to do horticulture… Jamie Durie: Yes. Jean Kittson: … While you were doing something completely different, the dancing. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Yeah. Jean Kittson: So what, what would you say to, have you got any friends who you feel are stuck or… Jamie Durie: I, yeah, I have and I say the same thing to all of them. Find something that you are passionate about. Dive into it. Learn, feed your brain. You know, make yourself get engaged in it because it will provide you with the fuel that you need to push you well into your retirement and way past that. And I don't like to use the word retirement because I'm never gonna retire. I've decided I'm just gonna keep working because I love my work. But find what it is you're passionate about and learn more and feed your brain. And it's funny, if it's benefiting other people, you will also find another way to keep energy within yourself. So don't just feed yourself. Find something that feeds other people in other communities and there's a sense of worthiness around what it is that you are doing that makes you feel good about your day and what you've learned and how you've passed it on. Jean Kittson: Just to wrap up, what would your tip be to people over 50 who feel perhaps a bit, a bit stuck? What's one habit, do you think, they could in… because we're talking about you have to do it regularly and, and institute it as a part of your everyday routines. What, is there one habit? Zac Seidler: It is funny that I very much, hopefully, look like I’m not in my 50s, but I spend a lot of time with men in their 50s and and 60s and do clinical work with them and research with them because they are hungry, and they're looking for ways to improve the rest of their lives and seek understanding about themselves. And I kind of say the same thing, which I've been talking to Jamie about, which is pick up the phone and call someone. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Zac Seidler: Reach out. Lean out. And it doesn't need to be a mental health conversation. It doesn't need to be something that's weird and awkward. It's just like, let's go for coffee, let's go for a walk. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: Let's do this thing called life together. And when you're finding that passion, that comes through other people… I went to a dinner party when I was 18 and someone started to talk to me about masculinity. And I was like, what? What are we talking about here? And then they connected me with someone else and slowly but surely doors opened. And your life opens, and there is no end point to learning. There is no end point to interest, to passion to drive. So, yeah, I think that realising, firstly, that you are stuck does not mean failure. Understanding that you're at an inflection point and there is now heaps of opportunity and potential for doing something different. Jamie Durie: Yeah. Zac Seidler: And that is a beautiful thing that we have, which is that there is always this splay of choices in front of us. And so start choosing. Jean Kittson: Just be curious. Start choosing. Jamie Durie: Yep. Jean Kittson: Can't go wrong. You can't make a mistake. Thank you both so much. That was such a great conversation. Thank you, Jamie Durie. Jamie Durie: My pleasure. Yeah, my pleasure. Jean Kittson: Thank you, Dr Zac Seidler. Thank you very much. Zac Seidler: Thanks for having me. Jean Kittson: That was really great. Thanks for being so open. Jamie Durie: Great fun. Jean Kittson: Thank you to Jamie Durie and Dr Zac Seidler. You've been listening to DARE: The time of your life, brought to you by Australian seniors. Please leave a review and share this show with someone you know or plenty of people you know, even better. Visit seniors.com au/podcast for more episodes. I'm Jean Kittson. Thanks for listening, and remember, it's your time, so dare to make it count. Go for it.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mike shares a message about slowing down and choosing Jesus.

On this weeks episode of this is work, we cover some listener questions — and this week, they're spicy.Shell tackles some of the hardest conversations in leadership — with practical tools you can use straight away.In this episode we cover:How to tell someone they lack self-awarenessThe five types of defensiveness and how to handle each oneLeading people who are older or more experienced than youWorking for a boss you don't respectThe biggest mistake new leaders makeConnect with Shell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shelley-johnson/If you lead teams, check out Shelley's business, Boldside: https://www.boldside.com.au/Shell & Glen's book 'Sort Your Career Out & Make More Money' is available here: https://amzn.to/4k3YSrrWe hate email spam so we don't create it! Sign up to our newsletter to get only the valuable money, careers and property info you need.To get help, and to check out our online courses, books, resources and downloads (+ our disclaimers and warnings), click here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Defensiveness feels so natural — like self-protection — but it quietly destroys connection and growth in marriage. In this episode, we unpack why defensiveness is one of the most corrosive behaviors in relationships, how it protects your ego at the expense of true intimacy, and what it really costs you and your partner.We explore:How marriage is designed to grow you up — and why defensiveness fights against that purposeThe Gottman Institute's “Four Horsemen” and why defensiveness is so dangerousThe ego's role in defensiveness and the powerful Byron Katie quote: “Defense is the first act of war”What defensiveness looks like in real life (one-up and one-down versions)The irony of pushing away the mirror while your spouse and kids clearly see your blind spotsBrené Brown's insights on armor, shame, and daring to take feedback from people who are “in the arena” with youMost importantly, we share practical tools to overcome defensiveness:Simple phrases that keep your mind open instead of closedHow to shift from defending to truly listening and taking responsibilityThe courage required for real intimacy: being willing to know and be knownIf you've ever felt yourself getting defensive during a hard conversation, or wondered why connection feels blocked in your relationship, this episode will give you both awareness and hope.Journaling Questions for the Week:How does my functioning change when my ego gets hurt or criticized?What wisdom do I want to remember the next time I feel myself getting defensive?What do I want to remember to say or do the next time I feel myself getting defensive?If this episode resonated with you, please leave a 5-star review and share it with a couple who might need it. Small changes in how we respond can create big ripples in our marriages.Be kind to each other this week — it's the small things done often that make the biggest impact.Resources Mentioned:The Gottman InstituteDaring to Lead by Brené BrownByron Katie's workGet in TouchWebsite: MasterYourMarriage.usInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/masteryourmarriageFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/MasterYourMarriage/

Why do two people experience the exact same moment at work and walk away with completely different stories about what just happened? That's often where tension begins. Misread signals. Frustration. Defensiveness. Disconnection. But here's the challenge. It's easy to assume someone else is the problem. When really, a lot of what's happening comes down to the lens each person is bringing into the moment. And when you understand that, you can communicate more clearly, work through tension faster, and create stronger team synergy. My special guest today is Vicki Landers, and she's simplifying how to gain synergy with your team's energy. Here's how. My special guest today is Vicki Landers and she's simplifying how to gain synergy with your team's energy. We tackle and simplify all aspects of it, including: What the Energy Leadership Index is and how it helps us better understand communication patterns, stress responses, and the default ways people show up at work. What she means by the "lens" we choose at work, and how that lens shapes the way we interpret other people's behavior. A simple breakdown of the different levels or lenses people move through, and what each one can sound like in real-life team communication, including: Level 1 - Victim Level 2 - Conflict Level 3 - Tolerance Level 4 - Compassion Level 5 - Curiosity & Opportunity Level 6 - Flow Level 7 - Enlightenment How this framework can help you stop taking things personally when a coworker seems defensive, distracted, frustrated, or hard to connect with. And two or three small shifts you can make this week to listen better, communicate more clearly, and create more synergy with your team's energy. Q: Are you wanting to learn how to gain synergy with your team's energy? If yes, this one is for you. It's time to #DoTheThing! ---- Show notes available with all links mentioned here: https://www.thesimplifiers.com/posts/418-how-to-gain-synergy-with-your-teams-energy---with-vicki-landers

Most relationship mistakes do not begin with one dramatic betrayal or blowout fight. More often, they begin with unhealthy relationship habits like defensiveness, blame, criticism, neglect, and communication problems in relationships that slowly create emotional disconnection over time. If your relationship has been feeling harder than it used to, this episode will help you understand why. In this Love, Happiness and Success classic, I'm revisiting one of my favorite conversations about the subtle patterns that can quietly damage even a good relationship. As a marriage counselor, I've seen how easy it is to focus on what your partner is doing wrong while missing the ways you may also be contributing to resentment, distance, and disconnection. We're talking about some of the most common relationship mistakes, including making the relationship too much about yourself, blaming your issues instead of taking responsibility for them, neglecting your partner, criticizing instead of communicating clearly, bottling up feelings, and expecting problems to get better without direct effort. We also get into why blame, defensiveness, and mind-reading are so destructive, and what helps instead: empathy, accountability, honest communication, and the willingness to address problems while they are still small. This episode is a reminder that strong relationships are built with intention. When you can recognize the unhealthy relationship habits that are getting in the way, it becomes much easier to create more trust, more warmth, and more connection. Episode Breakdown: 00:00 The Relationship Mistakes That Cause Real Damage 04:25 Unhealthy Relationship Habits That Push Partners Apart 10:03 Communication Problems in Relationships: Blame, Defensiveness, and Criticism 20:26 Emotional Disconnection: When Couples Stop Really Talking 30:08 How to Fix Relationship Problems Before They Get Worse 42:03 Final Takeaways on Healthy Relationship Skills If you're recognizing some of these patterns in your own relationship, and you're ready for things to feel different, I'd love to connect with you. You can schedule a free consultation with me or a member of my team. It's a private, secure space where you can tell us what's really been happening in your relationship, what's feeling hard, and what you wish felt different. We'll help you get matched with the right counselor or coach so you can feel more understood, more connected, and more confident in your ability to create healthy, secure love. You do not have to keep trying to figure this out on your own.

Why do we get defensive in conversations with the people we care about?Sometimes defensiveness looks like arguing or pushing back. But it can also show up in quieter ways—freezing when someone makes a request, explaining ourselves over and over, or trying to control the situation so we don't feel uncomfortable.In this episode, I explore two common relational moments: one where someone freezes when a request is made, and another where a couple gets caught in defensiveness and subtle power struggles around autonomy and values.Defensiveness isn't something “bad” about us. It's a form of self-protection. Our nervous system is trying to protect something important—our dignity, our autonomy, our belonging.The question isn't how to eliminate defensiveness.The question is how we can learn to work with it in ways that create more understanding and connection.Read more on the blog.Listen to Learn• Why defensiveness often shows up as freezing, explaining, or controlling rather than arguing• How to respond skillfully when requests trigger a defensive reaction• A simple shift that helps conversations move from power struggles to understandingUse code SOHC to get 50% off your first month in the School of Human Connection. Learn more here.  Use code YVETTE to get 20% of your annual subscription at nvclibrary.comFor ongoing practice and deeper learning, I warmly invite you to become a member of The School of Human Connection. Twice a month, I host live calls where members bring real relationship dilemmas. We slow things down and I'll help you see what's actually happening and how to respond with more integrity, strength and care.You will find a safe space for live discussions and a supportive community of like-minded, open-hearted humans. Stay updated on new episodes and resources by subscribing wherever you listen to podcasts or visiting yvetteerasmus.com.Here are more ways to connect with me:Join the School of Human ConnectionHop on my free Wednesday live callFollow me on YouTube

The ability to have difficult conversations is one of the most essential skills of an effective leader. Whether addressing performance, navigating conflict, or working through disagreements, the way the conversation begins often determines how it will end. This episode of the Forward Thinking Podcast features FCCS SVP of Marketing and Communications Stephanie Barton and Jeannie Clinnkenbeard, Director and Senior Leadership Consultant at FCCS. Their conversation is centered around the importance of approaching these moments with greater intention and skill. They explore practical ideas that can help turn tense conversations into productive dialogue, and highlight the value of brave conversations for individuals, teams, and organizations.   Episode Insights Include: What to think about before a critical conversation The 60-second gamechanger asks, 'What do I want out of this conversation?' Positive intent focuses on a win-win scenario. Share your intent with the other person to set the right tone.  If you focus only on winning, you will not have much success. Consider how you can learn, solve and grow together.  Defensiveness might result if your intent isn't framed in a mutually positive way.    Next step, share facts After stating your intent, share the facts surrounding the situation.  Separate your perceived stories and emotions from the facts.  You can reduce the temperature in the conversation with your words. Spiraling stories can escalate conflict.    Check the stories you're telling yourself Our stories drive our emotions, so tell them carefully.  The villain story blames the other person.  Question what you are making up to tell the story. Challenge your assumptions about your stories.  Stop MSU- Making Stuff Up- and stick with the facts.    Strategies for constructive engagement The 50/50 approach invites the other person to share their thoughts and concerns.  Ask neutral, open-ended questions.  When emotions are high, it can be hard to engage.  If the other person is shutting down, pause the content and focus on empathy and understanding.  Ask clarifying questions to keep the other person engaged.  Stick with the conversation even if it gets uncomfortable, within reason.    Encouraging difficult conversations in others If you see that a difficult conversation needs to happen between two other people, encourage the first steps.  Volunteer to role-play through the conversation.  The impact of difficult conversations can be critical to a team's success.  The ability to have tough conversations respectfully is a gamechanger.  The person who has the ability to speak up is the most useful person in the room.   This podcast is powered by FCCS.   Resources   Connect with Jeannie Clinnkenbeard – Jeannie Clinnkenbeard   Get in touch – info@fccsconsulting.com   "The more your conversation is focused on a win-win scenario, the more likely the outcome is going to be positive." — Jeannie Clinnkenbeard   "When going into tough conversations, our words don't have to be perfect, they just have to be positive." — Jeannie Clinnkenbeard   "Every human being has the fundamental need to be heard." — Jeannie Clinnkenbeard   "The person who has the ability to speak up is the most useful person in the room." — Jeannie Clinnkenbeard

Canada's approach to trade with the U.S. and the imminent re-negotiation of the North American trade deal must go beyond emotional arguments and appeals to friendship, according to Manitoba's senior representative to the U.S. Former CTV and CBC journalist Richard Madan was hired last June to open a provincial office representing Manitoba's interests in the... Read More

Do you want to know why most communications in relationship end up with a fight? This happens when unchecked criticism and defensiveness rule interactions with your partner. What comes first? Does feeling always criticised by your partner cause you to be defensive? Or is your default defensiveness that causes your partner to up the volume of their criticism? The answer is: both. Criticism and defensiveness will bring more and more conflict between husband and wife to the point of every communication ending with a fight or stonewalling. In this episode we are sharing the 4 steps that will help any couple to transform the way they communicate, eradicating the need to get defensive and creating more emotional intimacy and connection.Chapters: 00:00:00 Understanding defensiveness00:01:34 How defensiveness impacts communications00:04:51 Childhood trauma and the cycle of criticism00:09:25 The 4 steps that will change everything00:14:49 The transformative power of owning your inner state and resistance00:18:50 Using mirroring and labelling to disarm resistance00:29:19 Implement these actions to achieve change00:36:58 Empower your marriage with these communication tools Related episodes:Ep11: 4 traits that will doom your marriage if you don't act – Marriage Apocalypse Series, Part 1Ep 11 You Tube videoEp 12: How to stop toxic criticism from ruining your marriage – Marriage Apocalypse Series Part 2Ep 12 YouTube videoTrack 1253823– Monetization ID: 9HWIVQATIQUJECP3.#marriagepodcast #relationshipadvise #bethehusbandshebragsabout #emotionalintimacy #intimacy #husbandandwife #relatioshipcoaching

What does sex that isn't mostly about orgasm look like? What does it mean to really savor your lovemaking? Slide your chair up to our (bistro) table this week and let's discuss! Sponsor Every Love Intimates has a great Date Night Subscription box and also sells quality lingerie and single-night date boxes. Check them out! From the Bible For your Maker is your husband—     the Lord Almighty is his name— the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer;     he is called the God of all the earth. Isaiah 54:5 I will betroth you to me forever; I will betroth you in righteousness and justice, in love and compassion. Hosea 2:19 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31–32 Children are a heritage from the Lord, offspring a reward from him. Psalm 127:3 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. John 10:10 (ESV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22–23 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 1 Corinthians 13:4–7  Resources What Are the Real Purposes of Sex? - Hot, Holy & Humorous Episode 254: From Passion to Connection (Quickie) Episode 114: Pursuing Playfulness in Sexual Intimacy The Four Horsemen: Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, and Stonewalling | The Gottman Institute Couples Recovery and FANOS Check-in – Bethesda Workshops My Favorite Feeling During Sex (And It's Not Orgasm) - Hot, Holy & Humorous Foreplay – Webinar TROJAN Extended Pleasure Condoms | Amazon Durex Performax Intense Natural Rubber Latex Condoms | Amazon Exploring Exercise for Premature Ejaculation (including the pause-squeeze technique) Thanks for joining us at the virtual kitchen table for another great chat! We'd love for you to join our inner circle by supporting us on Patreon. You can contribute to our wonderful ministry while getting some fun perks for yourself! Check it out here: https://patreon.com/ForChristianWives If you want to contribute without using Patreon, you can donate here. If you could, leave a rating and/or review so that others can find the show. Please also check out our website and webinars at forchristianwives.com. And visit our individual ministry pages for more resources as well: Strong Wives - Bonny Burns Honeycomb & Spice - Chris Taylor Hot, Holy & Humorous - J. Parker 

Kamini Wood explores the critical distinction between defensiveness—a reactive, ego-driven rejection of feedback—and discernment, which is the regulated ability to evaluate data before choosing how to respond. Kamini explains that high achievers and people-pleasers often struggle to trust their own judgment, especially when others weaponize the label of "defensive" to maintain control or bypass boundaries. By utilizing filters such as pattern, power dynamics, and safety, listeners are encouraged to slow down their reactions and move into the space between stimulus and response. This shift from reactivity to clarity allows for genuine growth and healthy accountability without falling into the traps of self-doubt or over-accommodation.

We've explored the spectrum of narcissism, now it's time to dive into what you can do when those patterns show up in your marriage. Dr. Kim shares how to discern when to speak up and when to self-reflect, how to cultivate an atmosphere for healthy conversation, and why boundaries are essential for meaningful connection.   Episode Takeaways: Forgiveness is not pretending something didn't happen.  Trust has to be built consistently over time.  Being a good christian spouse does not mean absorbing pain.  When you see the same behaviors repeatedly, it's time to do something.  Language matters when having productive conversations. Change starts with responsibility, not accusation. God sees you and He is near!   Quotes from this Episode: You can forgive someone and still require accountability. Healthy relationships don't make you feel like you're losing your mind.  Keep love as the goal.  Boundaries aren't unloving, they are essential. Patterns that took years to develop don't disappear in just weeks.  Labels can explain behavior, but they rarely heal relationships. Defensiveness feels safe, but it slowly kills intimacy. You can't control your spouse's willingness to change — but you can control your own humility. Most marriages don't break from one big issue, but from unaddressed patterns over time. Healing begins when curiosity replaces accusation.   Take Time to Talk About It: What narcissistic or self-protective patterns do you notice repeating in your marriage? How does defensiveness show up for you — and what is it usually trying to protect? What would it look like to take responsibility for your part without minimizing the pain you've experienced?   Mentioned in this Episode: Awesome Marriage is on Instagram! Make sure you're checking in with your spouse every week! Your words, your tone, your attitude- they all matter in how your spouse hears you and how connected your marriage feels. Check out our new devotional: Cut the Criticism and Cultivate Companionship Want an opportunity to dig into God's Word with your spouse? Find Awesome Marriage on YouVersion. Continue growing in love and intimacy, don't stop Pursuing Your Spouse in Marriage. If you haven't browsed our site, you've GOT to check out the marriage resources we have over at AwesomeMarriage.com, and browse our online courses at AwesomeMarriageUniversity.com !   

Let us know what you think about the podcast!Episode 210 - Stop Blaming Yourself: When Your Adult Child's Spouse is Anxious or Difficult, part 2 Have you ever left a visit with your adult child and their spouse thinking, “Nothing big happened… so why do I feel awful?” If their spouse is tense, easily offended, or hard to read, many parents slide into a painful pattern: self-blame. You replay every sentence, analyze your tone, and try to “fix” yourself so the relationship won't feel so fragile.In Part 2 of this series (Parents + Adult Child + Difficult/Anxious Spouse), Tina breaks down why self-blame is a nervous-system response to family anxiety—and how to move from shame into clarity using a simple family-systems tool.In this episode, we coverWhy self-blame shows up when your adult child's spouse brings anxiety into the family system The hidden reason self-blame feels “useful” (even though it hurts) How parents start walking on eggshells and over-functioning to keep the peace What to do when your adult child brings “feedback” that sends you spiraling How to stop carrying what was never yours to carry in the first place A practical reset tool: The Three Bins (Own / Influence / Release)A powerful reminderSelf-blame is not the same as growth. You can own what's yours without erasing yourself.When shame says: “You have to earn your way back,” steadiness says: “Connection is built through consistency, not perfection.”Next episode previewNext, we move into Stage 3: Defensiveness—when self-blame gets exhausting and parents swing into defending, explaining, and trying to prove their intentions. Tina will show you how to step out of defend-and-explain and into calm leadership. Tina Gosney is the Family Conflict Coach. She works with parents who have families in conflict to help them become the grounded, confident leaders their family needs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Connect with us:Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tinagosneycoaching/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tinagosneycoaching---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tina is certified in family relationships and a trauma informed coach.  Visit tinagosney.com for more information on coaching services.

Volunteers are the lifeblood of youth ministry. But what happens when a volunteer becomes the problem? James and Todd open up a conversation most youth leaders have needed to have for a long time.Struggling vs. Toxic: The Core DistinctionBefore you can address toxic behavior, you have to be able to name it. James and Todd walk through the key markers of each:A struggling volunteer:Is going through a hard season and may be temporarily off their gameMakes honest mistakes because they're still learningResponds to feedback with humility and a willingness to growGenuinely cares about students even when their execution is imperfectA toxic volunteer:Shows consistent patterns of harmful behavior — not one bad day, but a recurring realityDamages students, divides teams, and undermines leadershipDeflects, dismisses, or gets defensive when given correctionOperates from self-serving motivations: control, ego, personal agendaKey diagnostic question: When you give feedback, how do they respond? Humility and openness are the marks of someone who's struggling. Defensiveness, deflection, and blame signal something deeper.Links:ADAM KEEHN FOUNDATIONhttps://adamkeehnfoundation.com/Connect With The Show:Webpage - https://ymsoulkeeper.carrd.coFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100088943467640&sk=followersInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/ymsoulkeeper/Youtube (watch pod vids here) - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIqvY3ftXO8-8poUuRYUZ8wTwitter - https://twitter.com/YMSoulKeeperConnect with James:Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jamessabin13/ / https://www.instagram.com/edgestudentministries/Instagram EDGE Students - https://www.instagram.com/edgestudentministries/Youtube EDGE Students - https://www.youtube.com/@MinistryEDGEYouthConnect with Todd:Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/toddpearageInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/toddpearage/Twitter - https://twitter.com/toddpearageWe would love to hear from you with questions and comments at the following email: ymsoulkeeper@gmail.comCheck Out Coleader and plan your next month of ministry in just one click - https://www.coleader.coSign-up for Coleader here: https://share.coleader.co/SikZuk/joinGet help with the weekly grind with the help of Download Youth Ministry here - https://www.downloadyouthministry.comYouth Leader Summit Conferences: https://www.youthleadersummit.com/

Most people have spent years studying feedback — the frameworks, the techniques, the dos and don'ts. But almost nobody has ever been asked one simple question before receiving it: How do you want feedback? That's the focus of today's episode. Brett breaks down why this single question might be the most underrated communication tool in your arsenal — and why it works on a level most people never think about. It's not a hack. It's not a trick. It's old-style values that the noise of modern leadership advice has buried. And once you start using it, you'll wonder why you ever walked into a feedback conversation without it.   What You'll Learn:   ∙ Why most feedback conversations fail before a single word is spoken.   ∙ How one question disarms defensiveness and gives you useful intel at the same time.   ∙ ⁠The difference between catering to someone's preferences and surrendering to them.   ∙ Why this is power dynamics in action — and why that's a good thing.   ____________________     Follow Us: Website: ArtofCoaching.com Instagram: @coach_brettb X: @coach_brettb

In this enlightening conversation, Dr. mOe Anderson and relationship expert Diane McDowell delve into the complexities of relationships, exploring how our brains influence our emotional responses and behaviors. They discuss the concept of 'brain hijack,' the importance of emotional safety, and the shift from emotional performance to genuine presence in relationships. Diane shares her personal journey and transformative client experiences, emphasizing the significance of self-leadership and honesty in fostering healthy relationships. The discussion provides valuable insights into navigating emotional challenges and improving communication in personal connections. Takeaways ​Awareness is the first step, but it doesn't change behavior. Our reptilian brain is always scanning for danger. Defensiveness can escalate conflicts in relationships. Emotional safety is a personal responsibility. Being present is crucial for authentic communication. Honesty with oneself is key to healthy relationships. Self-leadership is essential for effective communication. Transformative change often starts with individual responsibility. Relationships are a feedback loop; one person's change can influence another. Calmness in communication can lead to better outcomes.  Chapters 00:00 Understanding Relationship Complexity 02:41 The Neuroscience of Emotional Behavior 05:47 The Impact of Brain Hijack on Communication 08:38 Emotional Safety and Self-Responsibility 11:33 From Emotional Performance to Presence 14:19 The Importance of Honesty in Relationships 17:21 Diane's Journey and Background 20:01 Transformative Client Experiences 22:42 Self-Leadership in Relationships 25:42 Navigating Change in Relationship Dynamics   Would you like to be a guest on this podcast? Join Podmatch and get access to this show and 1000's of other podcast hosts looking for guests to interview. https://www.joinpodmatch.com/perpetualmoetionwdrmoeanderson  Learn more about Dr. mOe's services and books on her website at www.drmOeAnderson.com.  Follow her on social media!  @drmOeanderson Elevate your public speaking skills with 1x1 or online Public Speaking Coaching (https://drmoeanderson.com/coaching/) Feature your business on this award-winning podcast or book Dr. mOe for a speaking engagement! Contact her today! info@drmoeanderson.com Please support this indie, woman-owned, small business providing free educational and inspirational content. Use one of these secure, fee-free ways to support the production and distribution of this award-winning show:  1. Buy Me a Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/drmoeandu 2. CashApp: $drmoeanderson 3. Venmo: @drmoeanderson      

►► GET MY FREE VIDEO & WORKSHEET - SHATTERPROOF YOURSELF LITE!7 SMALL STEPS TO A GIANT LEAP IN YOUR CONFIDENCEReady to level up your relationships and leadership? Episode 195 of the DYL Podcast is your whistle-stop tour through the three red flags you should NEVER ignore at work, at home, or in your love life. Join host Adam Gragg as he spins real-life stories of dating and hiring gone awry. He also uncovers the telltale signs that could save your heart, your business, and your sanity.Discover why ownership, follow-through, and maintaining healthy connections are non-negotiable, and learn how to spot the difference between promises and patterns. Packed with humor, hard truths, and easy-to-apply wisdom, this episode will make you rethink who gets a seat at your table, and maybe, who needs to go.Don't settle for HALF relationships! Embrace the ELF (easy, lucrative, fun) formula for lasting success! Hit play and unlock the habits that turn red flags into green lights for your future. Your legacy is calling. Decide to answer.CHAPTERS:00:00 "Protecting Business and Personal Relationships"06:07  "Ownership and Accountability Matter"09:24  "Guard Your Heart, Seek Actions"13:06  "Evaluating Long-Term Relationships"16:49  "Show Up and Stay Engaged"19:36  "Evaluating Fit and Key Traits"Visit the Decide Your Legacy Website for More! Be sure to check out Escape Artists Travel and tell them Decide Your Legacy sent you!

In this episode, we deconstruct the root of defensiveness, revealing how it stems from a desire for control and a lack of trust in God's sovereignty. When defenses are built against correction, it robs Jesus of His Lordship and blocks the Holy Spirit's ability to train and guide. The discussion explores the "Octopus Ink" defense mechanism—the passive and aggressive reactions used to confuse, deflect, and punish those who bring hard truths. True freedom and teachability require vulnerability, surrender, and becoming a safe place for others to bring the "wounds of a friend" (Proverbs 27:6, NKJV).  Key Topics Covered:• The Root of Defensiveness: How unresolved offense, fear, and a refusal to be teachable keep strongholds in place.  • The "Octopus Ink" Mechanism: Recognizing the emotional and relational smokescreens used to escape accountability and dissuade others from speaking into our lives.  • The Five Types of Control: Identifying control marked by striving, self-pity, drama, domination, and distrust, along with the acceptable "masks" used to hide them.  • A Posture of Surrender: Learning from David's response to Shimei's curses (2 Samuel 16:10-12) and embracing radical teachability rather than seeking isolation.

Text us your questions or topics for the show! We got you!Cass Morrow, Author of Disrupting Divorce: The NEW Man. Saving Struggling, Sexless, and Toxic Marriages.Kathryn Morrow, Author of Behind The White Picket Fence.Every Argument Ends In Divorce Threats!If every fight turns into: “Fine. Let's get divorced.”Then you don't have a “communication problem.”You have a connection + respect problem… and you're stuck in a cycle that's training your marriage to fail.In this Marriage Q&A, Helen breaks down an unconventional dynamic: she's the breadwinner, he's been the primary parent, and now he's carrying a double load—kids + work—while the business is under pressure.And when stress hits?They go from 0 to 60.Name calling. Scorekeeping. Defensiveness. Shutdown.Then makeup… and repeat.If you're tired of divorce threats being your default weapon… this episode will punch you in the face (in a good way).

Defensiveness is one of the fastest ways conversations shut down in marriage. One minute you are trying to communicate, and the next you feel blamed, misunderstood, or completely disconnected. Many couples get stuck here and assume there is no way forward once defensiveness shows up.In this episode, I'm sharing the specific tool I use when my spouse becomes defensive and why it works. I break down what defensiveness is actually protecting, why pushing harder makes things worse, and how this tool helps deescalate conflict so real connection can happen again.Tune in to discover:• Why defensiveness shows up so quickly in marriage• What defensiveness is actually protecting underneath• The common mistake that escalates conflict• How to lower defenses in the moment• Ways to keep conversations productive instead of shutting downWays to Connect:FREE Married After Kids Intervention Call: https://marriedafterkids.satoriapp.com/offers/277730-married-after-kids-intervention-callThe Us System: https://marriedafterkids.com/the-us-systemMarriage Shutdown Checklist: https://marriedafterkids.com/marriage-shutdown?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=links&utm_campaign=MSoptinThe 3 Secrets to a Happier Marriage Video: https://marriedafterkids.com/3-secrets?utm_source=Podcast&utm_medium=Links&utm_campaign=3%20Secrets%20-%20Jan263 Ways To Connect More With Your Spouse (In 5 Min or Less) E-Book: https://marriedafterkids.com/freebie60 Min Marriage Shutdown Breakthrough Call: https://marriedafterkids.satoriapp.com/offers/306057-marriage-shutdown-breakthrough-callInstagram: www.instagram.com/marriedafterkids

The hardest part of parenting isn’t managing our kids. It’s facing ourselves. This week, a heated family moment revealed something uncomfortable — our children often mirror the very behaviours we struggle with. Defensiveness. Blame. Excuses. Denial. And when we see it in them… it’s confronting. In this honest Friday “I’ll Do Better Tomorrow” episode, we unpack emotional reactivity, accountability, and the power of repairing quickly. Plus, a Brisbane GP’s email sparks an important conversation about ADHD diagnoses, medication culture, and why more labels aren’t fixing our kids. This one goes deep — into marriage, parenting, and the courage to own our part. KEY POINTS: Why kids’ behaviour can be a mirror to our own unresolved habits The difference between ownership and blame How defensiveness blocks connection Why quick repair strengthens relationships A GP’s concerns about rising ADHD diagnoses and medication culture The parenting skill we’re rapidly losing: backing ourselves QUOTE OF THE EPISODE: “If we do dumb things, can we forgive each other and move on and be better as a result of it? That’s literally all that matters.” RESOURCES MENTIONED: Searching for Normal by Sami Timimi Happy Families Podcast happyfamilies.com.au ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS: When conflict flares, ask: What part of this is mine? Model ownership out loud — let your kids hear you apologise. Separate accountability from self-blame. Own your part, not theirs. Repair quickly. Don’t let pride extend disconnection. Back yourself. Not every struggle needs a label or prescription. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

cam and tar are celebrated their 3rd wedding anniversary with the pp's and helping a caller navigate feeling sensitive.book club: https://www.stayingupclub.com/send us your gossip stories or ask for advice!call the PP hotline 323-577-8857 or email us at stayinguppod@gmail.comJoin our Patreon: http://patreon.com/StayingUpJoin our Discord: https://discord.gg/am5t7kZTdRCam's shopmy https://shopmy.us/cammiescottTar's shopmy https://shopmy.us/tarynarnoldscottListen: https://stayingup.lnk.to/listenFollow: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stayinguppodFollow Cam: https://www.instagram.com/cammiescott/Follow Tar: https://www.instagram.com/thetarynarnold/Contact for business inquires only:stayinguppod@gmail.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Start healing your Attachment Style with personalized courses taught by Thais Gibson. Free for 7 Days [enough time to complete a full course]. Limited-time offer: https://attachment.personaldevelopmentschool.com/dream-life?utm_source=podcast&utm_campaign=7-day-trial&utm_medium=organic&utm_content=pod-03-04-26&el=podcast If you're a Fearful Avoidant Attachment Style, you may feel like you deeply crave intimacy but also struggle the most during conflict. You might: Get intensely close… then suddenly pull away Shut down instead of communicating your needs Overexplain yourself during arguments Become defensive or emotionally overwhelmed In this episode, Thais Gibson breaks down four toxic communication patterns that Fearful Avoidants commonly develop not because something is “wrong” with you, but because of conditioning from childhood. And the best part? These patterns are completely healable. Episode Summary This episode explores how early conflict modeling and emotional chaos can wire Fearful Avoidants to associate intimacy with both love and danger. You'll learn: ✔️Why hot-and-cold behavior isn't random; it's nervous system conditioning ✔️How protest communication and game-playing stem from fear ✔️Why emotional dumping or overexplaining can sabotage resolution ✔️How defensiveness and stonewalling block true repair ✔️Most importantly, you'll learn the framework for resolving conflict securely by sharing what you felt, what triggered you, and what you need moving forward. Healing starts with awareness. Key Takeaways • Hot and cold communication is often rooted in fear of vulnerability • Protest behaviors (silent treatment, delayed replies, jealousy tactics) are control strategies driven by fear • Overexplaining can come from a core wound of feeling “bad” or unworthy • Defensiveness often masks fear of betrayal or abandonment • Secure communication involves validating feelings and clearly expressing needs • You can rewire these patterns through subconscious and nervous system work Timestamps 00:00 – Toxic Fearful Avoidant Communication Patterns 01:22 – These Patterns Are a Reflection of Your Conditioning 02:13 – Hot and Cold Communication 04:33 – Protest Communication 07:40 – 7-Day Trial Promo 08:30 – Emotional Dumping / Overexplaining 10:32 – Defensiveness 11:59 – Final Thoughts Meet the Host Thais Gibson is the founder of The Personal Development School and a world leader in attachment theory. With a Ph.D. and over a dozen certifications, she's helped more than 70,000 people reprogram their subconscious and build thriving relationships. Helpful Resources:

Ron Johnson was one of the most successful retail executives in America. He'd made Target hip. He'd built the Apple Store from nothing into a retail phenomenon. So when J.C. Penney hired him as CEO in 2011, expectations were sky-high. Johnson moved fast. He killed the coupons. Eliminated the sales events. Redesigned the stores. When his team suggested testing the new pricing strategy in a few locations first, Johnson said five words that explain everything that happened next: "We didn't test at Apple." Within seventeen months, sales dropped twenty-five percent. He was fired. And here's the part nobody talks about: Johnson had access to all the data. Every week, the numbers told the same story. Customers were leaving. Revenue was collapsing. The board was getting nervous. He could see it all. He just couldn't act on it. Because changing course would mean he wasn't the visionary who reinvented retail. He wasn't making a business decision anymore. He was protecting who he believed he was. That's the identity trap. And it doesn't just happen to CEOs.  What if changing your mind didn't have to feel like losing yourself? Let's get into it. Why Identity Bias Looks Like Your Best Qualities The trap doesn't target bad thinkers. It targets good ones. Think about the entrepreneur who poured three years and her life savings into a startup. The data says it's failing. The metrics are clear. Her advisors are suggesting it's time to pivot or shut down. She has every analytical tool to evaluate this accurately. And she can't do it. She's plenty smart. The problem is that admitting failure would mean she's "a quitter." And she is not a quitter. That's not who she is. Johnson wasn't stupid either. He was brilliant. His identity as the retail visionary just happened to make him blind to the one thing that could save his company: the possibility that what worked at Apple wouldn't work at Penney's. He experienced his blindness as conviction. As leadership. And that's the disguise. Every other thinking error in this series, uncertainty, depletion, time pressure, social pressure, you can feel those happening. You know when you're tired. You know when you're rushed. But identity fusion is invisible from the inside. It disguises itself as your best qualities. The entrepreneur calls it perseverance. Johnson called it vision. The investor who won't sell a losing position? He calls it discipline. Your ego doesn't announce that it's taking over. It puts on a costume that looks exactly like your strengths. And your brain? Your brain is in on it. Why Changing Your Mind Feels Like a Threat When a belief becomes part of your identity, your brain defends it as it would defend your body. Challenge that belief, and your brain responds the same way it would to a physical threat. Not metaphorically. The same neural circuits that protect you from danger activate to protect you from being wrong. That's why arguments about strategy or direction can generate so much heat and so little light. You're not debating a position anymore. You're defending territory. And sometimes you defend it long past the point where the evidence says stop. A project you've poured months into. A strategy you championed. A hire you fought for. The data says cut your losses, but you keep going because walking away would mean all that time, all that effort, all that money was wasted. That's the sunk cost fallacy. And most people think it's about the money or the time. But it's not. Sunk cost is about identity. Think about that manager who spent eighteen months building a new system. The team knows it's not working. She knows it's not working. But scrapping it doesn't just waste eighteen months of budget. It means her judgment failed. It means she led her team down the wrong road for a year and a half. "I've invested too much to quit" sounds like a financial calculation. It's not. It's an identity statement. What she's really saying is: "If I quit, I'm the kind of person who wastes eighteen months of people's lives." The sunk cost isn't financial. It's existential. And suddenly you can see that every time you've held on too long, stayed in something past its expiration date, defended something you knew wasn't working, the force holding you there wasn't logic. It was your self-image refusing to absorb the hit. So how do you loosen the grip once you realize it's there? Three Warning Signs Your Ego Has Taken the Wheel Here's what to watch for. 1. Emotional Intensity That Doesn't Match the Stakes Someone suggests a different approach to a process you built. Not a criticism. Just an alternative. And you feel a flash of heat in your chest. Defensiveness. Maybe irritation. The reaction is way out of proportion to the suggestion. Pay attention to that gap. The intensity isn't about the process. It's about what being wrong would say about you. 2. How You Argue When someone pushes back on your position, watch what happens. If you find yourself attacking the person instead of engaging their argument, that's identity talking. "You don't understand our industry." "You haven't been doing this as long as I have." The moment you shift from "here's why the evidence supports my position" to "here's why you're not qualified to question it," you've stopped defending a conclusion and started defending yourself. The tell is subtle: you'll feel righteous, not curious. 3. The Evidence Filter When you're evaluating something objectively, new information can move you in either direction. But when identity is involved, watch what happens. You accept supporting evidence quickly, uncritically, almost with relief. Contradicting evidence? You tear it apart. You find flaws in the methodology. You question the source. You say, "That's just one study." When you're applying completely different standards depending on which direction the evidence points, that's not critical thinking. That's identity protection wearing a lab coat. How To Loosen the Grip So what do you do once you recognize the grip? Early in my career, I championed a technology direction that I was convinced was right. The evidence started coming back that it wasn't working. And I was doing exactly what I just described. Scrutinizing the bad data, embracing the good data, and getting irritated when people questioned me. It wasn't until a colleague looked at me and said, "You're not evaluating this anymore. You're defending it," that I realized my identity had completely hijacked my judgment. What helped was a shift in language that sounds simple but changes everything. Stop holding beliefs as part of your identity. Start holding them as a working thesis. The Reframe Listen to the difference between these two statements. First: "I believe this company will succeed." Second: "My working thesis is that this company will succeed." The first version fuses the belief to you. If the company fails, you were wrong. You made a bad bet. The second version builds in the expectation that your thinking will evolve. New data doesn't make you wrong. It makes you better informed. The Proof That colleague I mentioned? After that conversation, I started framing every strong opinion as a working thesis in my own head. Not out loud at first. Just internally. And the effect was immediate. I stopped feeling attacked when contradicting data came in. I started treating it as an update instead of a threat. The position I was defending? I reversed it completely. And the thing I was most afraid of — looking like I'd wasted everyone's time — never happened. The team was relieved. The Practice Next time you find yourself defending a position with more heat than it deserves, pause and restate it starting with "My working thesis is..." Then ask yourself: "What would I need to see to change this?" If you can't answer that question, if there's literally no evidence that could change your mind, that belief has become part of your identity. And your brain will protect it like one. The Door The goal isn't to be wishy-washy. Commit fully to your working thesis. Act on it with confidence. The difference is that you've built a door in the wall, and you've given yourself permission to walk through it if the evidence changes. That door is the difference between updating when you're wrong and doubling down until it costs you. Why Identity Is the Amplifier The identity trap doesn't operate alone. It recruits every other force we've covered in Part Two of this series. Facing uncertainty? Identity says, "You're not the kind of person who hesitates." Someone manufactures a deadline to pressure you? "Leaders are decisive. Act now." The whole room disagrees with your position? Identity whispers "I'm a team player" — or digs in with "I'm the one who sees what others miss." Identity is the amplifier. It takes every vulnerability from Episodes 10 through 13 and cranks up the volume. That's why we saved it for last. Everything else we've covered in Part Two? Necessary. But not sufficient. Because if you haven't dealt with your identity's grip on your beliefs, those skills have a backdoor that ego walks right through. And this is exactly what mindjacking exploits. I go much deeper into an article I wrote and in my dedicated mindjacking episode, links below. But the core mechanism is this: mindjacking doesn't just offer you convenient conclusions. It attaches those conclusions to who you are. "People like us think this." "Smart people choose this." Once a belief becomes a badge of identity, you'll convince yourself. No external persuasion required. From Seeing the Trap to Building the Escape Here's your challenge this week. Pick one belief you hold that you've never seriously questioned. Something professional. Your management philosophy. Your investment thesis. Your view on how your industry works. Something you'd describe as "just who I am." Now find the strongest argument against it. Not a straw man. The real, best case the other side would make. Sit with it. See if you can engage with it without your threat response kicking in. If you can? You've just proven that your thinking is bigger than your identity. And that is the most important skill in this entire series. If this episode shifted something for you, share it with someone who needs to hear it. And in the comments, tell me: what's a belief you held that you later realized was more about identity than evidence? I think we can all learn from each other on this one. Episode 15 is about designing your decision environment. Not tips. Systems. Structures that protect your thinking, so willpower becomes optional. Now you can see the trap. Next, we build the escape route. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss it, and I'll see you in the next one.   Endnotes — Episode 14 How To Quit Defending Decisions You Know Are Wrong "He'd made Target hip. He'd built the Apple Store from nothing into a retail phenomenon": Brad Tuttle, "The 5 Big Mistakes That Led to Ron Johnson's Ouster at JC Penney," TIME, April 9, 2013, https://business.time.com/2013/04/09/the-5-big-mistakes-that-led-to-ron-johnsons-ouster-at-jc-penney/. Johnson is credited with creating Target's "cheap chic" brand positioning in the early 2000s and subsequently designing and launching Apple's retail stores, which became the highest-grossing retail outlets per square foot in America. "We didn't test at Apple": Tuttle, "The 5 Big Mistakes" (cited in note 1). When Johnson's team proposed testing the new pricing strategy on a limited basis before rolling it out chain-wide, Johnson reportedly shot down the idea with this statement. The quote has been widely attributed in retail industry reporting. See also James Surowiecki, "Why Ron Johnson Is Struggling at J.C. Penney," The New Yorker (The Financial Page), March 25, 2013. The article is archived under The New Yorker's legacy URL format; for a summary of Surowiecki's argument, see Derek Thompson's coverage in The Atlantic and Quartz: https://qz.com/58487/jc-penneys-ceo-wasnt-the-one-who-killed-it. "Within seventeen months, sales dropped twenty-five percent. He was fired.": Multiple sources confirm these figures. Sales fell $4.3 billion in 2012 — a 25 percent decline — and same-store sales dropped 31.7 percent in Q4 2012, which analysts called "the worst quarter in all retail history." Johnson was terminated on April 8, 2013, seventeen months after taking over. See Tuttle, "The 5 Big Mistakes" (cited in note 1); Sean Williams, "This May Be the Worst Quarter in Retail History," The Motley Fool, February 28, 2013, https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/02/28/this-may-be-the-worst-quarter-in-retail-history.aspx; and the Ron Johnson entry at Wikiwand, which aggregates and cites the primary financial reporting, https://www.wikiwand.com/en/articles/Ron_Johnson_(businessman). "When a belief becomes part of your identity, your brain defends it as it would defend your body": Jonas T. Kaplan, Sarah I. Gimbel, and Sam Harris, "Neural Correlates of Maintaining One's Political Beliefs in the Face of Counterevidence," Scientific Reports 6, 39589 (December 23, 2016), https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39589. doi:10.1038/srep39589. Using fMRI on 40 participants with strong political beliefs, the researchers found that challenges to identity-linked beliefs activated the amygdala and insular cortex — brain structures involved in threat detection and emotional processing — while also engaging the Default Mode Network, associated with self-referential thinking. Participants who resisted changing their minds showed the strongest activity in these areas. Lead author Kaplan noted: "The amygdala in particular is known to be especially involved in perceiving threat and anxiety." A 2026 replication by an independent European team confirmed these findings. See Kossowska, M., Szwed, P., Czarnek, G. et al., "Neural Correlates of Belief Change in Political and Non-Political Domains Among Left-Wing Individuals Confronted with Counterarguments," Scientific Reports 16, 4895 (January 8, 2026), https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-026-35397-6. doi:10.1038/s41598-026-35397-6. "That's the sunk cost fallacy": Hal R. Arkes and Catherine Blumer, "The Psychology of Sunk Cost," Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes 35, no. 1 (February 1985): 124–140. doi:10.1016/0749-5978(85)90049-4. Available via ScienceDirect: https://doi.org/10.1016/0749-5978(85)90049-4. Arkes and Blumer defined the sunk cost effect as "a greater tendency to continue an endeavor once an investment in money, effort, or time has been made" and demonstrated across multiple experiments that the effect is driven by the desire not to appear wasteful — a fundamentally identity-protective motive rather than a financial calculation. "Sunk cost is about identity": The connection between sunk cost escalation and self-concept draws on Barry M. Staw, "Knee-Deep in the Big Muddy: A Study of Escalating Commitment to a Chosen Course of Action," Organizational Behavior and Human Performance 16, no. 1 (1976): 27–44. doi:10.1016/0030-5073(76)90005-2. Available via ScienceDirect: https://doi.org/10.1016/0030-5073(76)90005-2. Staw's central finding was that individuals committed the greatest resources to failing investments when they were personally responsible for the initial decision — an "intra-individual process in which people tend to act in ways to protect their own self-image." This reframes sunk cost escalation as identity protection rather than mere financial irrationality. See also Hal R. Arkes and Catherine Blumer, "The Psychology of Sunk Cost" (cited in note 5), whose findings complement Staw's by emphasizing the role of waste-avoidance norms tied to self-presentation. "To consider an alternative view, you would have to consider an alternative version of yourself": Jonas T. Kaplan, quoted in Emily Gersema, "Hardwired: The Brain's Circuitry for Political Belief," USC Press Room, December 23, 2016, https://pressroom.usc.edu/hardwired-the-brains-circuitry-for-political-belief/. This quote from the lead author of the fMRI study (cited in note 4) captures the identity-belief fusion mechanism described throughout this episode. Kaplan added: "Political beliefs are like religious beliefs in the respect that both are part of who you are and important for the social circle to which you belong."  

Got a question? Let us know!Made for Mondays | STEPSStep Eight: The Damage: Name Those We've HarmedThis week on Made for Mondays, Heather is joined by Tyler, Jamey, and RaChelle for a conversation around one of the most stretching steps yet: Step 8 — making a list of people we've harmed and becoming willing to make amends.After some light weekend catch-up (including dinner at Lofay's

In this episode, we take "consistency over intensity" out of the gym and straight into relationships. Because if it's intense all the time, you burn out. If it's consistent all the time, you get bored. So what's the sweet spot? We talk about respect as the real baseline, convenience vs. connection, why lifelong marriage might need a rethink (yes, we went there), and how finances, in-laws, religion, and resentment erode connection faster than lack of chemistry ever could. We unpack how to approach hard conversations without triggering defensiveness, why movement helps when words get stuck, and how planned romance can still be romantic (if it's not transactional). There's a dash of "Liz & Lee Love Plan" brainstorming, a little twerking therapy, and a reminder that love isn't about pressure or perfection. It's about bravery, honesty, low expectations, and choosing each other again and again… until you don't. And if you don't? That's information, too.   Resources mentioned: Consistency vs. Intensity in Fitness (Episode 206) Love Languages Are Kinda BS (Episode 179) Liz's favorite Everyday Oil - Unscented Liz's favorite Everyday Oil - Mainstay   3 Ways to Strengthen Your Relationship Without Burning It Down: Respect is the real baseline. Intensity is exciting. Consistency is comforting. But without respect, neither one holds. Love without respect doesn't last. Speak from love, not accusation. Hard conversations are inevitable. Defensiveness is optional. Lead with "I'm struggling" instead of "You never." Move your body together. Lower the pressure. Sometimes breakthroughs come after laughter, not confrontation. Keep a dash of crazy. Grand gestures are great. Daily small touches matter more. Plan the dinner. Drop the expectations. Twerk in the kitchen. Low expectations + real affection = longevity.  

In this final session of the three-part series, Brian and Kristen reflect on what has shifted—and what still feels tender. They don't have “big crimes” in their marriage. No betrayal. No catastrophe. What they have are patterns. And the courage to look at them. This episode centers on their struggle around the language of “over-functioner” and “under-functioner.” What started as a helpful framework became a pain point—especially for Brian, whose family-of-origin history makes accusations of “not doing enough” land deeply. Zach helps them untangle what's really underneath the label: It's not about over-functioning. It's about expectations. It's about connection before correction. It's about role clarity. It's about appreciation. Through a simple example—a snowy driveway on the day they learned a friend had died—the couple sees how context, grief, and unmet expectations can spiral quickly. But they also discover something new: Brian doesn't need fewer requests. He needs more connection and appreciation first. Kristen doesn't need better labels. She needs help carrying the mental and emotional load. In the end, they shift from asking, “Who's over- or under-functioning?” to asking: Who's showing up right now—and how can we show up better for each other? Key Takeaways Labels can illuminate—but they can also wound Context (stress, grief, hunger, fatigue) matters more than theory Connection before correction changes everything Over-functioning often hides an unspoken request for help Defensiveness often protects an old family-of-origin wound Appreciation softens difficult conversations “What do you want more of?” is more useful than “What do you want less of?” Playing the long game means collaborating, not competing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this final session of the three-part series, Brian and Kristen reflect on what has shifted—and what still feels tender. They don't have “big crimes” in their marriage. No betrayal. No catastrophe. What they have are patterns. And the courage to look at them. This episode centers on their struggle around the language of “over-functioner” and “under-functioner.” What started as a helpful framework became a pain point—especially for Brian, whose family-of-origin history makes accusations of “not doing enough” land deeply. Zach helps them untangle what's really underneath the label: It's not about over-functioning. It's about expectations. It's about connection before correction. It's about role clarity. It's about appreciation. Through a simple example—a snowy driveway on the day they learned a friend had died—the couple sees how context, grief, and unmet expectations can spiral quickly. But they also discover something new: Brian doesn't need fewer requests. He needs more connection and appreciation first. Kristen doesn't need better labels. She needs help carrying the mental and emotional load. In the end, they shift from asking, “Who's over- or under-functioning?” to asking: Who's showing up right now—and how can we show up better for each other? Key Takeaways Labels can illuminate—but they can also wound Context (stress, grief, hunger, fatigue) matters more than theory Connection before correction changes everything Over-functioning often hides an unspoken request for help Defensiveness often protects an old family-of-origin wound Appreciation softens difficult conversations “What do you want more of?” is more useful than “What do you want less of?” Playing the long game means collaborating, not competing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Brian and Kristen return after completing their homework: mapping their recurring conflict pattern step-by-step. And something shifts. Instead of focusing on who's right, they begin identifying when the pattern starts, how it escalates, and where they might choose something different. They talk about having a “good week,” more laughter, and fewer misunderstandings—but Zach presses deeper: Was it luck, or was it intentional? What unfolds is a layered conversation about stress, chronic pain, medication changes, PMS, defensiveness, and the powerful internal story Brian carries that says, “If there's a problem, it must be me.” Zach helps them connect the dots between depression's lies, physiological stress, and how quickly neutral requests can turn into personal threat. The couple names their 10-step pattern openly—fight or flight, overthinking, mounting a defense, physical withdrawal—and begins experimenting with something new: interrupting the script before it reaches step six. This episode isn't about resolution. It's about pattern awareness and learning how to redirect before old muscle memory takes over. They close by identifying the next layer to explore in Episode 3: their over-functioner / under-functioner dynamic—and how it triggers deeper family-of-origin wounds. Key Takeaways A “good week” is often intentional, not accidental Externalizing the problem (“us vs. the schedule”) strengthens the team Physiological stress (sleep, pain, hormones, meds) directly impacts conflict Depression distorts perception and reinforces “I'm the problem” narratives Defensiveness often protects something deeply valuable Mapping a conflict pattern creates space for choice Interrupting the script—even once—builds momentum Repair matters more than resolution “Something new” is the antidote to “more of the same” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Brian and Kristen return after completing their homework: mapping their recurring conflict pattern step-by-step. And something shifts. Instead of focusing on who's right, they begin identifying when the pattern starts, how it escalates, and where they might choose something different. They talk about having a “good week,” more laughter, and fewer misunderstandings—but Zach presses deeper: Was it luck, or was it intentional? What unfolds is a layered conversation about stress, chronic pain, medication changes, PMS, defensiveness, and the powerful internal story Brian carries that says, “If there's a problem, it must be me.” Zach helps them connect the dots between depression's lies, physiological stress, and how quickly neutral requests can turn into personal threat. The couple names their 10-step pattern openly—fight or flight, overthinking, mounting a defense, physical withdrawal—and begins experimenting with something new: interrupting the script before it reaches step six. This episode isn't about resolution. It's about pattern awareness and learning how to redirect before old muscle memory takes over. They close by identifying the next layer to explore in Episode 3: their over-functioner / under-functioner dynamic—and how it triggers deeper family-of-origin wounds. Key Takeaways A “good week” is often intentional, not accidental Externalizing the problem (“us vs. the schedule”) strengthens the team Physiological stress (sleep, pain, hormones, meds) directly impacts conflict Depression distorts perception and reinforces “I'm the problem” narratives Defensiveness often protects something deeply valuable Mapping a conflict pattern creates space for choice Interrupting the script—even once—builds momentum Repair matters more than resolution “Something new” is the antidote to “more of the same” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, John answers listener questions about breakups, emotional cheating, boredom in relationships, scarcity mindset, defensiveness, and what it really means to compromise without abandoning yourself. Why is it harder to let go when things ended “well”? Is emotional cheating still cheating? When do needs become “demands”? And how much space is too much space for an avoidant partner? This episode is about self-respect, emotional safety, and learning how to stay connected without losing yourself. We explore: Running into an ex and how to handle it Letting go after a breakup (especially when it ends abruptly) Scarcity vs. abundance in dating Emotional cheating and betrayal Compromise vs. self-abandonment Defensiveness and where it comes from Boredom in relationships Giving avoidant partners space Conflict over household structure If you've ever wondered whether you're asking for too much — or settling for too little — this one's for you.

209 (Great to share with your spouse) Why does defensiveness show up so quickly in marriage—especially when an HSP (Highly Sensitive Person) wife is trying to express hurt? And why does it often sound calm, logical, and completely reasonable?In this episode on subtle defensiveness spotting, we break down both the obvious and the harder-to-detect forms of defensiveness in intimate relationships—especially the “reasonable explanation” reflex many husbands fall into without realizing it. You'll hear specific examples of what defensiveness sounds like, how subtle defensiveness shows up in men in real time, why it happens, and what it feels like for highly sensitive women on the receiving end.If you're an HSP woman who feels unheard when your husband explains instead of empathizes—or you're a husband who genuinely wants to show up with more emotional safety, connection, and confidence—this episode will help you recognize the defensiveness cycle that keeps couples stuck and learn how to spot it before it quietly erodes connection.We'll explore:Classic defensiveness in marriage (denial, minimizing, shutting down)The sneaky forms of subtle defensiveness that sound reasonable but create distanceHow to spot subtle defensiveness in real timeWhy men tend towards defensiveness more than women (important to understand for more compassion)How defensiveness quietly erodes emotional intimacyWhat HSP women need in moments of conflict to feel safe and connectedWhether you're a highly sensitive wife longing for deeper emotional connection or a husband wanting to strengthen your marriage with your HSP partner, this conversation will help you see what's really happening beneath the surface.Because defensiveness isn't about not caring—it's often about caring deeply and not knowing how to stay connected when you feel imperfect. Let's begin showing that care in ways that truly land.SHOW NOTES:Special limited time course, for the spouses of HSP women: THE SUPPORTIVE PARTNER MICRO-COURSE; 5 Simple Ways to Meet Your Highly Sensitive Wife with Empathy and Love -- only available until Feb 24th.

Today's episode is a deep dive into tactile defensiveness and sensory distress, especially around clothing. My guest is Kathryn Hamlin-Pacheco, an occupational therapist who helps kids and families understand their brains and bodies through everyday neuroscience. Kathryn will break down what's actually happening in the brain and nervous system when children experience tactile defensiveness, and why clothing can feel so overwhelming for some kids. We talk about the role of co-regulation, how parents can help create positive associations with getting dressed, and practical strategies for supporting children in navigating their sensory experiences with more safety and less stress. This episode is a grounding, compassionate look at sensory processing—and a reminder that when we understand what's underneath the behavior, everything shifts. About Kathryn Hamlin-Pacheco Kathryn (Katie) Hamlin-Pacheco, M.S., OTR/L, ASDCS, is an occupational therapist, former teacher, author, and founder of the Brain Executive Program. Kathryn is an Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinical Specialist (ASDCS) and holds certifications in Neuroscience for Mental Health Professionals and in Brain Structure and Function: Application to Sensory Integration and Processing. She graduated from Virginia Commonwealth University with a Master's degree in Occupational Therapy, where she also worked with the Virginia Leadership Education in Neurodevelopmental Disabilities program to pursue her desire to be an advocate and leader in pediatric healthcare. She has shared her work at AOTA's Inspire Conference (the world's largest gathering of occupational therapy practitioners!), Sensory Integration Education's international conference, and at William & Mary's Center for Gifted Education. In addition, Katie has written for OT Practice Magazine, Autism Parenting Magazine, Washington Family Magazine, and Stars & Stripes Magazine. Her book, How to Be a Brain Executive: And Get Sensory Sharp!, was a top Amazon release in two categories. Things you'll learn from this episode  How tactile defensiveness reflects a nervous system response rather than behavioral resistance Why understanding sensory processing is essential for supporting children with clothing challenges How co-regulation helps children feel safe, connected, and more able to tolerate sensory input Why play and low-pressure practice can make clothing experiences more manageable How creating calm environments and positive associations supports sensory integration over time Why sensory health is a vital part of children's overall well-being Resources mentioned Brain Executive Program (Kathryn Hamlin-Pacheco's website) Kathryn's online Sensory Dressing Course How to Be a Brain Executive: And Get Sensory Sharp! by Kathryn Hamlin-Pacheco Brain Executive Program on Instagram Brain Executive Program on Facebook Deb Dana on Befriending Our Nervous System Using Polyvagal Theory (Tilt Parenting podcast) Dr. Stephen Porges & Karen Onderko on the Safe and Sound Protocol (Tilt Parenting podcast) Dr. Mona Delahooke on the Power of Brain-Body Parenting (Tilt Parenting podcast) Brain-Body Parenting: How to Stop Managing Behavior and Start Raising Joyful, Resilient Kids by Dr. Mona Delahooke Sensory Processing Differences with Carol Kranowitz (Tilt Parenting podcast) The Out-of-Sync Child: Recognizing and Coping with Sensory Processing Differences by Carol Kranowitz Polyvagal Card Deck: 58 Practices for Calm & Change Polyvagal Practices: Anchoring the Self in Safety by Deb Dana Debbie's TedxBerlin talk: What if Feeling Broken Wasn't the End of the Story? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Zach begins a three-part series with Brian and Kristen, longtime MTR listeners who volunteered to work through their marriage challenges in real time. Brian and Kristen have been together for more than two decades and credit Marriage Therapy Radio as a resource that helped them find language for patterns they felt—but couldn't name. They describe how listening separately (not together) gave them neutral ground to reflect, build vocabulary, and bring conversations back into their marriage without escalating conflict. The focus of this first session is a familiar cycle: Brian's defensiveness, Kristen's experience of being misunderstood, and the growing frustration around repair always landing on one partner. Zach helps them slow the pattern down, name the dynamics at play, and examine how early family modeling, parenting pressure, and long-term habits have shaped their responses to conflict. Rather than trying to “fix” the marriage, this episode centers on clarity: understanding what actually happens when things go off the rails, differentiating between feeling attacked and being attacked, and identifying where each partner has agency. Zach reframes responsibility not as blame, but as freedom—emphasizing that each partner can choose how they show up regardless of the other's behavior. The episode closes with a concrete assignment: mapping their recurring argument step-by-step so they can externalize the pattern and begin changing it together in the next session. Key Takeaways Long marriages still require new skills as life circumstances change Defensiveness often comes from perceived threat, not actual attack Feeling misunderstood can be as painful as being criticized Responsibility is most powerful when it's chosen, not demanded Repair patterns can unintentionally create resentment Taking breaks during conflict can prevent escalation and shutdown Naming the pattern creates options for change Playfulness and lightness are essential for long-term connection Why This Episode Matters This episode offers a rare, transparent look at the beginning of relational work—not the polished outcome. Brian and Kristen model what it looks like to be curious, honest, and willing to be seen while still feeling stuck. For listeners, this is an invitation to recognize familiar patterns in their own relationships and to remember: insight is the first step, not the finish line. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Zach begins a three-part series with Brian and Kristen, longtime MTR listeners who volunteered to work through their marriage challenges in real time. Brian and Kristen have been together for more than two decades and credit Marriage Therapy Radio as a resource that helped them find language for patterns they felt—but couldn't name. They describe how listening separately (not together) gave them neutral ground to reflect, build vocabulary, and bring conversations back into their marriage without escalating conflict. The focus of this first session is a familiar cycle: Brian's defensiveness, Kristen's experience of being misunderstood, and the growing frustration around repair always landing on one partner. Zach helps them slow the pattern down, name the dynamics at play, and examine how early family modeling, parenting pressure, and long-term habits have shaped their responses to conflict. Rather than trying to “fix” the marriage, this episode centers on clarity: understanding what actually happens when things go off the rails, differentiating between feeling attacked and being attacked, and identifying where each partner has agency. Zach reframes responsibility not as blame, but as freedom—emphasizing that each partner can choose how they show up regardless of the other's behavior. The episode closes with a concrete assignment: mapping their recurring argument step-by-step so they can externalize the pattern and begin changing it together in the next session. Key Takeaways Long marriages still require new skills as life circumstances change Defensiveness often comes from perceived threat, not actual attack Feeling misunderstood can be as painful as being criticized Responsibility is most powerful when it's chosen, not demanded Repair patterns can unintentionally create resentment Taking breaks during conflict can prevent escalation and shutdown Naming the pattern creates options for change Playfulness and lightness are essential for long-term connection Why This Episode Matters This episode offers a rare, transparent look at the beginning of relational work—not the polished outcome. Brian and Kristen model what it looks like to be curious, honest, and willing to be seen while still feeling stuck. For listeners, this is an invitation to recognize familiar patterns in their own relationships and to remember: insight is the first step, not the finish line. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices