Podcasts about sandhills development

I recently caught up with Pippin Williamson, who as many of you know was a prominent figure in the WordPress world for over a decade. He founded Sandhills Development and created popular plugins like Easy Digital Downloads before selling to Awesome Motive a couple years back. (Watch my previous interview on YouTube.)I was curious to hear what Pippin's been up to and also get his thoughts on the WordPress ecosystem since his exit. A few things stood out that I thought would interest you all:First off, Pippin was very clear that his reason for moving on from WordPress boiled down to prioritizing time with family. After so many years of plugin development, he felt burnt out from being on that relentless “hamster wheel” of building and maintaining products. He had zero regrets about leaving.When it came time to sell Sandhills Development, Pippin made finding the right steward for his team and products a top priority over price or other factors. He felt confident Awesome Motive was the best fit given their product focus. Although he does wish there had been less team turnover resulting from the acquisition.And while Pippin keeps a very casual eye on WordPress these days, he did note how interesting it was to return to using it purely as an end user rather than a developer. Even being removed for a couple years, he immediately noticed some of the lingering friction between core, plugins, and the overall user experience.Anyway, those were just a few WordPress-related nuggets I wanted to share. Let me know if you have any other thoughts or reflections on Pippin's time in our community!Visit Pippin's Brewery: Sandhills Brewing ★ Support this podcast ★

In this episode, Gaby Galea and Mark Zahra talk to Kyle Maurer, Director of Operations at Sandhills Development (recently acquired by Awesome Motive), about general people operations, career progression frameworks, the best way to handle compensation, and organization hierarchy. Episode Highlights and Topics: Company Leader: Clearly communicate the vision to team/employees. Company Culture: Function efficiently and create a fulfilling place to work. Career Progression Frameworks: Hire the right people and give them opportunities to grow. Climbing the Corporate Ladder: Not all people are going to be or want to be managers. Compensation: Career progression with change in level or title often results in pay raises. Ongoing Debate: How much discretion is allowable - as little subjectivity as possible. Fixed vs. Variable Location: Use equitable, simple, and reliable data for salary ranges. Resources/Links: Kyle Maurer on LinkedIn Sandhills Development Awesome Motive Trello GitHub Castos TranslatePress WP Mayor Email WP Mayor

In Episode 573, Rob Walling chats with Einar Vollset and Tracy Osborne about the part-time contractor versus hiring full-time debate, the acquisition of Sandhills Development, as well as the launch of a TinySeed Europe. The topics we cover [02:14] FT vs PT Contractor [09:06] When could part time contracting work? [10:25] Sandhills Development acquisition [14:50] […]Click the icon below to listen.       

Síguenos en: Hoy traemos un episodio especial de Perspectiva WP donde analizamos, junto con Juan Hernando que ya nos acompañó en el último episodio, las últimas adquisiciones en el ecosistema WordPress. Últimas adquisiciones en la esfera WordPress StellarWP (LiquidWeb) adquiere LearnDash Justin Ferriman proceso de 11 meses - Chris Lema pasa a ser General Manager Así queda la cartera de productos de StellarWP: iThemesThe Events CalendarRestrict Content ProKadence WPGiveWPWP Business Review.IconicWP Awesome Motive adquiere todos los plugins de Sandhills Development Pippin Willianson se retira pero el resto del equipo (27 personas) pasan a formar parte de Awesome Motive (Syed Balkhi): Easy Digital Downloads AffiliateWPSugar CalendarWP Simple PayPayouts Service Así queda la cartera de productos de Awesome Motive: WPBeginnerOptinMonsterWPFormsMonsterInsightsAIOSEOWP Mail SMTPSeedProdRafflePressSmash BalloonPushEngageSearchWP… y más. Unos 17 millones de webs utilizan plugins de Awesome Motive. Un equipo de + de 200 personas localizados en 36 países distintos Motivos de Pippin Comenta que el destino de cualquier negocio será alguno de estos: Un día pasará a otra persona, quizás por herencia familiarDecaerá lenta o rápidamente y en algún momento se cerrará por completoSe venderá a un nuevo propietario por una u otra razón La salud de su padre le hizo reflexionar Se tomó 3 meses de sabático para reflexionar  Dar el salto al siguiente nivel es muy complicado Además había perdido la pasión por crear software para WordPress Una vez decidió que quería vender buscó alguien capaz de asegurar el futuro de sus productos, trabajadores y clientes Conoce a Syed Balkhi desde hace años y confía en que puede asegurarlo Sandhills Development se dedicará principalmente a la preservación de espacios naturales. Pippin dedicará su tiempo a eso y a Sandhills Brewing. Punto en común con Elliot Condon, 10 años y a otra cosa mariposa. Episodio de PerspectivaWP dedicado a Pippin Williamson y Sandhills Development. Episodio de PerspectivaWP dedicado a Elliot Condon y Advanced Custom Fields. Episodio de PerspectivaWP dedicado a iThemes/ Liquid Web Otras grandes adquisiciones recientes WooCommerce adquiere SomewhereWarmACF adquirido por Delicious BrainsYoast adquirido por Newfold Digital Movimientos de talento Brian Gardner vuelve a WP Engine Rich Tabor cambia Go Daddy por Extendify. Todas las adquisiciones de WordPress recogidas en Post Status. Debate Trasvase de datosHay hueco para pequeños negocio en WordPress Is There a Future for Small WordPress Businesses? - WP Mayor (Si quisieras vender un producto/plugin: https://flipwp.co/ de Iain Poulson y Alex Denning + 6 preguntas que hacerte antes de vender tu negocio de WP en el blog de StellarWP) Gracias a: Este episodio está patrocinado por StudioPress, los creadores de Genesis Framework, el entorno de trabajo de temas más popular de WordPress. Ya está disponible Genesis Pro para todo el mundo, 360$ anuales que dan acceso a: Genesis FrameworkChild themes de Genesis de StudioPress1 año de hosting en WP EnginePlugin Genesis Pro (Diseños y secciones, restricción de bloques por usuarios…) y Genesis Custom Blocks Pro.

There have been a number of WordPress acquisitions this year. Today's hot button topic is all about the Sandhills Development acquisition. It's brought questions to the minds of everyone in the SaaS community. What are the alternatives to selling at certain points? Why not stay and go public? When do you sell your business? What […]

This week's WordPress news for the week commencing Monday 20th September 2021

The WordPress acquisition world was rocking this week. If this week were a heavyweight fight between Learn Dash and Sandhills Development, Pippin would certainly be the beloved veteran. You can hear more about his side of the story in this podcast interview. Today I got to sit down with Syed Balkhi, founder of Awesome Motive, to recap his point of view on the acquisition. It hasn't been without some controversy, but hey, that's WordPress for ya ★ Support this podcast ★

The WordPress acquisition world was rocking this week. If this week were a heavyweight fight between Learn Dash and Sandhills Development, Pippin would certainly be the beloved veteran. You can hear more about his side of the story in this podcast interview. Today I got to sit down with Syed Balkhi, founder of Awesome Motive, to recap his point of view on the acquisition. It hasn't been without some controversy, but hey, that's WordPress for ya :) If you enjoy today's episode, please share it with others.

Today's a bittersweet moment in WordPress business land with the announcement of Awesome Motive acquiring Sandhills Development suite of plugins including Easy Digital Downloads, AffiliateWP, and more. I'm honored to call Pippin my friend who has helped me “grow up” in the WordPress community. I'm happy for him, and sad that he's retiring from the WordPress world…for now. I had a chance to sit down with him earlier this morning to hash out all the feels around this news. I hope you enjoy the episode, please share it with others! Episode Transcript [00:00:00] Hey,[00:00:01] Matt: everybody. Welcome back to a special episode of the Matt report, breaking news almost. And not this one's not erring on the WP minute, but we broke a lot of news on the WP men. They go to the WP minute.com. If you want your weekly dose of five minute WordPress news delivered in your inbox every week, uh, this episode is sponsored by easy support videos, easy support videos, support your WordPress users right inside the WordPress admin.[00:00:23] Using videos. Check out easy support. Dot com why am I doing this in line with the episode? Because we have a special guest today, Pippin, Williamson, Pippin. Welcome to the program. Thank you, Matt.[00:00:35] Pippin: It's great to be back.[00:00:37] Matt: I woke up writing my weekly script for the WP minute and I was getting all of the acquisition news in there.[00:00:43] I was getting all of the liquid web and learn dash and what WooCommerce was up to and I was ready to send it to my executive producer and I looked on Twitter one last time. And there you were saying that Sandhills was acquired. My awesome[00:00:59] Pippin: motive. Sorry to screw up your, uh, your scheduling plan.[00:01:04] Matt: I had a donut in my mouth and I'm trying to type in like, oh my God, what's happening.[00:01:08] I was real newsroom, uh, breaking moments here. First of all. Congratulations. Thank you. Um, at the top of this episode, what I want people to do is an, a link this in the show notes is please. For the love of all that is holy. If there's anything you do with what I say here at the med report, read the blog post on Sandhills dev.com that Pippin wrote about the breakdown, phenomenal piece, one of your best, the best that you have written, uh, you know, uh, to, to bookend this, this, this book, this chapter of your life.[00:01:49] Uh, you know, it's, it's, it's actually an emotional thing for me. I don't have a question straight away. It's an emotional thing for me. I feel like I've been part of this journey with you. Have you felt that same vibe from others in the WordPress?[00:02:02] Pippin: You know this entire morning, um, when we publish the, the announcement that all of the WordPress products were joining automotive and that after a transition period that I'm retiring from WordPress, um, and moving onto some other things, uh, it has been pretty much a constant stream of messages from.[00:02:25] Friends colleagues, people that we've met once or twice at word camps and, and so many friends. And, um, from over the years, just, you know, saying hi, saying congrats, mentioning, you know, something about, you know, what we did together. You know, there's so much. People that we have worked with over the years and that I've had the amazing opportunity to get to know.[00:02:51] Um, so yeah, it was it's, it's been a pretty wild ride and a journey and hearing how many different people, um, have been impacted by the work that we've done over the last 10 years is an amazing way to, um, you know, maybe conclude this part of it.[00:03:14] Matt: They're in my, in the WP minute, uh, script that I wrote today, I said that you are your Sandhills and you specifically are either one of the most respected.[00:03:30] Product companies in the WordPress space, if not the most respected, uh, WordPress plugin company in the space. There's yeah. There's such a deep connection that I think a lot of people share this. It's what makes WordPress special, I guess, is because we all get, so the reason why we're all so emotional about it, or at least I know I am is because we all get so connected with one another.[00:03:51] We want to see each other when we want to see the software do well. I'm retiring from work. I was, I just ran to grab a coffee before we hit record. And I was thinking about some of the questions that I was going to ask you. This is probably a pretty blunt question to ask, but there's the side balconies of the world.[00:04:13] And then there's you and me, right? How do you frame yourself to be able to say, okay, I'm retiring with WordPress from WordPress. I don't even think the word retire is. In vocabulary. What do you think makes the entrepreneur your yourself as an entrepreneur versus SIADH maybe so different and has that played a role into making this decision?[00:04:40] In other words, we're world domination,[00:04:43] Pippin: really? So it absolutely played a role. You know, one of the, one of the most challenging parts of, of this type of transition is we have this, this huge history of, of, of customers, of our team, of our products that, you know, those don't just turn off those don't just suddenly go away because I'm moving on to other things.[00:05:11] What we have to try really, really hard to do. I spent an enormous amount of time on over this last summer is finding the best avenue for those to carry on for the products to carry on for the customers to continue to be supported better than we were ever able to do. And, you know, finding the right fit that ensures that that will happen.[00:05:34] Truthfully requires someone like CYA, you know, SIADH is extremely laser-focus. And driven for his mission of helping small businesses. And he, his, you know, the first thing when, when he, and I started talking about this in depth over the summer, one of the first things that I, I asked him is, you know, what are you, what are you going to do?[00:05:58] And what is the time, um, you know, do you plan to continue working on these and building these for years to come quick answer was, yeah, for at least this next 60 years, uh,[00:06:12] You know, that is something that is a huge amount of reassurance for someone in my position that is, you know, knows that it's time to move on to something else, but also, you know, agonizes over the details of how do we ensure that the customers and the team and the products are taken care of and, you know, knowing that he is committed to the long-term future, um, is extremely important to me.[00:06:36] Um, You know, I, I recognize a couple of years ago that while I have had an amazing time and I absolutely loved the last decade, I'm not ready to keep doing it for another decade, you know, I need to do something else. Um, so[00:06:56] Matt: yeah. I mean, it takes a lot of courage to admit that you've always been one, that's been transparent with your posts and, you know, income reports and all this stuff with, with the product and the services side of the product services side of things.[00:07:08] Uh, but to sort of put your entrepreneurship. Scars, you know, in front of everyone. Right? Cause I know what it's like to run a business at a very much smaller scale than obviously you, you and I had spent some time in a mastermind years ago where we were just banging heads with things that were just so uninteresting, probably to both of us, like talking about taxes and like when VAT came out and you're like, good, I don't want any of this.[00:07:36] I didn't choose to be the janitor and the tax guy doing this stuff. It's not fun. I just want to code and. You stumbled onto the success that you had, and it is, it's a totally different weight. And I think a lot of people are jaded in this space. Sometimes myself included saying he's got everything he wants and needs right in front of him with this busy.[00:08:00] But sometimes it's not what you want. And, and what you wrote in this piece. Uh, again, please read this people about family, your father, your grandfather has a deep connection to me because I started a business with my father. He started a business with his father and it's this lineage that has, you know, gone on.[00:08:20] So, I mean, it really hits home with me. But I think a lot of people just want you to keep going. And sometimes it's, it's not what you, what you want. And, uh, again, no real question here just like applauding you to,[00:08:32] Pippin: you know, the thing that I think so often people don't realize or think about enough until they find themselves in that position.[00:08:40] Is any, anybody who is, is heading a team or a company. When they no longer have the passion for it or the drive, or maybe not that their passion for it has gone away, but maybe passion for something else has eclipsed. It is the longer that they stay in that seat, the more disservice they are going to do to their customers and their team and all of the people that they work with in some capacity or other, you know, anybody who leads a ship needs to be the best of themselves.[00:09:16] As much of a time as they possibly can. Um, because that's the only way that you can do your absolute best to take care of, of your team, of your customers and of your business. And when you are no longer your best in that seat, the best thing you can probably do, if you can, if you know that that is a permanent thing and not just a transitory.[00:09:40] It's put someone else in that seat. Uh, it's hard to do, and it's really, probably even harder to admit to yourself when you reach that point. But if you don't, you know, that that's what causes amazing things to decline over time. That's what causes businesses to slowly fail and, and start to suffer is when, you know, obviously there's other factors too, then, you know, there's other things that can cause somebody to go downhill.[00:10:03] But when, when the captain of the ship is, is no longer. Wanting to be there, no matter what their level of dedication, you know, it hasn't been.[00:10:12] Matt: Yeah. How does that unfold internally at, or how did it unfold internally at Sandhills? Like when you got the gut feeling, did you gut check and, uh, you know, talk to the, the, the top brass at, I dunno, what, what you, what you title them, but do you talk to the top brass and say, I got this feeling.[00:10:31] What do you all think before. Dispersed[00:10:33] Pippin: everywhere for this one. It, um, it unfolded in a couple of ways. So first, uh, you know, a much longer string of events is I'll say that it first started to happen years ago for me, which was basically the day that I, you know, one day I recognized I had hired myself out of it.[00:10:54] 'cause I had, you know, we had, we had grown the team. We had hired, we had grown the dev development team, the support team, the marketing team, even the leadership team. And I re realized that like, I don't, everything that I did, everything that I used to do that I was passionate about is now somebody else's responsibility.[00:11:13] So that happened years ago. Uh, and that was probably one of the first periods where I started to like really recognize that, you know, I don't know that being a CEO is. What I desire to be in the long-term future. I just want to write code again. I spent the next few years trying to get back into code and it, it never happened for one reason or another.[00:11:36] There's lots of reasons. Um, you know, here, here and there, I would, I would dive back in and have a little bit of, of success building something for fun. Um, but like on a day-to-day basis, I never returned to being in the. And it, and that was where my, my true passion was. I loved writing code. I loved the, you know, just cranking something out and, you know, more or less building something from nothing.[00:11:58] It was so fun and magical. So that when realizing that that had happened, that, that transition where I was no longer doing that. Is the first step to what got us to today. And that was years ago, much more recently. Um, basically, uh, when my, my dad's health issues that I mentioned in the blog post popped up, that was when I, I think I really got serious with myself to admit that it was probably time.[00:12:31] Um, at that time I wrote out a message to my partners, um, and. Basically told them. I wrote, I wrote up this very, actually a very short message and it was just titled the exit is near and FYI. Here's basically the way that I'm feeling now. And I think I'm going to start having conversations. And, and that was, it was very, it was very brief, but then we, you know, we followed up and had a lot of in depth conversations as, as a partners group for the next several months.[00:13:05] And then, you know, I kept wavering. I kept going back and forth and, you know, deciding to, to sell something you've spent 10 years building isn't some, like, at least I don't maybe, maybe some people, it happens this way, but for me it was not like a light bulb moment. It was not this, you know, one day I just know, you know, okay, that's fine.[00:13:27] Let's do it. No, it wasn't that at all. It was, you know, it's this, this inkling, this feeling, this, this like weight in your stomach that says. I think it's time, but I'm a F I'm truthfully terrified of that commitment of that, you know, actually making that choice. So over, over a couple of months, you know, trying to figure out if that was the right move or not, I finally decided, you know what, I'm going to take a sabbatical.[00:13:54] I'm going to take three months off the entire store. I'm going to close slack, I'm going to close base camp. I'm going to close emails, disabled, all notifications. I'm going blackout mode for the next three months and see what happens that the, you know, our, our team was set up and so effective that, you know, I was able to do that.[00:14:17] Um, I was not necessary for the day-to-day operations. And so I knew one of two things was going to happen. Through that sabbatical either. I'm going to go out, get refreshed and decide, you know what? I love this. I want to keep going. Um, I'm back, I'm 100% committed and let's put the pedal to the let's hit the gas, or I'm going to know for sure that this is the right move.[00:14:44] Um, and obviously with today's new news that we announced, um, we know how that ended. I knew that it was the right move after I'd spent several months away from it. And you know, it just helped me realize that I'm ready for this.[00:14:59] Matt: Yeah. I mean, and again, I've known you for awhile. A lot of people have known you for awhile, but if you haven't known PIP in, um, You know, just all like the moments at word camps, replaying in my head with like sitting with you and you sitting with your team and just like whatever diving into code features, new product announcements.[00:15:18] How are you going to market this? How are you going to grow the team the whole, how do I get a great team chemistry? Like your. Like the painting that I have of you over your time in this space has never been like, how do I build this thing to sell it? Right. And over the years I've seen which I guess, like, I don't fault anybody anymore.[00:15:35] I used to have like really strong opinions on it, but now people want to build a business and sell it, whatever, Hey, that's just another way of going about it. Like you're building it to sell it, to acquire it. And it's all strategically done. Thumbs up, Hey, that's your way of doing it. Um, you know, and, and just seeing the way that you've done over the years, you know, knowing that this was, this wasn't the intention, although as you highlight, it was[00:15:57] Pippin: a reality that was known to have a strong likelihood of happening,[00:16:01] Matt: right?[00:16:01] Yeah. There's a, there's a point in the, um, in the blog post where you say every business owner knows or will eventually learn that there are three possible fates for their. One one day it'll be passed on to someone else perhaps whose family inheritance, uh, to it's solely or rapidly decline at some point, uh, be shut down entirely three.[00:16:22] It'll be sold to a new owner, uh, for one reason or another. I want to just shift gears a little bit in the conversation. Get a little bit more like strategic businessy, uh, on number two, uh, it'll slowly or rapidly decline at some point be shut down entirely. Um, before we got on, I was talking to somebody else.[00:16:39] Who's going to be writing up a piece on the business of WordPress space. They asked me a couple of questions about what I think about this and why acquisition is so hot right now. Um, I think that there are a lot of mature businesses like yourself, or like Sandhills, where you get to a certain point where, Hey, it's successful.[00:16:57] It's good, but you hit this plateau. And in order to get to the next step, the next stage. You have to almost build a whole other business model or hold a product whole or business. It's not just, Hey, two X, my effort now it's like 50 X my effort to get to that next point strategically that did that have a, a role in this.[00:17:20] And then we'll talk about awesome motive and how I feel like you slot into that, that suite of services. But was that a thing for you?[00:17:26] Pippin: Oh, absolutely. Um, you know, like any, any business that has been going for. Uh, while, you know, and, and at this point we were, uh, almost 10 years old. Um, the sandals development as a, as a company, as a brand is eight years old.[00:17:41] But the products, you know, it's been, I think, 10 years since we launched EDD, um, or close to it, um, you know, what, what used to work, what works when you're really, really small and you're new and you're growing. It's not the same thing that works today. You know, when, once you reset maturity point, um, it's a totally different set of challenges.[00:18:05] Um, and the consequences for getting your approaches wrong are a lot more significant. Um, you know, w at our peak, we were a team of 28 people, you know, if we, if we screw up and we do. Aim for the future properly. And we don't manage our growth and we don't recognize where our pain points are. You know, the consequences of that are a lot more significant than when, you know, it's just two or three people that are, you know, mostly just late night keyboard hacking and having a good time doing it and, you know, have a little bit of success with it.[00:18:41] Yeah. So, you know, when I said that when I, when I went on a sabbatical, I knew one of two things was going to happen. And one of those possibilities was that we were going, I was going to come back refreshed and ready to just hit the gas. We have definitely been at that stage for the last couple of years where we were trying to figure out how do we hit the gas?[00:19:02] You know, we're, we're still doing good. We're still comfortable, but the signs are there, that what we're doing. Is not going to sustain us for the next 10 years or even the next five years. There are, there are changes that we're going to have to make. Um, you know, we didn't, we ended up going through this process with automotive before we really had to dive into what those changes were going to be.[00:19:27] And so, you know, I honestly, I can't tell you what they are cause I, cause I don't. Um, but we knew that we were going to have to adapt our approaches and adapt our strategies and adjust, um, and do things in a different, in at least some form of different ways. Um, because it wasn't going to be enough to get us through the next five years.[00:19:46] Matt: I think a lot of successful. And this is, and again, these are just my opinion and obviously happy to hear yours, which just, you just hinted that really. But, you know, you get to a certain point where it's like, Like, if you looked at EDD or your suite of prod products, let's say affiliate EDD. So you have like the affiliate side of e-commerce you have e-commerce, but then it's like, okay, what does everybody want?[00:20:10] You know, with e-commerce is, I don't know, maybe like the hot thing of, uh, customizing checkouts or lead gen or all of this stuff. And it's like, man, That's like another 10 years, right. To like, think about how to build that, like the thought process on how to succeed with that. Yeah, man, it takes so much time and money, um, to really get to that.[00:20:34] So, and I[00:20:35] Pippin: thought a very careful planning. Yeah. I had[00:20:37] Matt: a lot of planning. It's. It's not like the concept of cowboy coding in the early days where it's just like, yeah, just throw another feature and see what happens when you say throw another feature. It impacts 28 employees that you're responsible for tens of thousands.[00:20:52] I'd imagine customers that you have, and it's not just as flip, flip of a switch. That is, is that easy to just change? Oh, that feature wasn't good. Let's pull it back out. Like no, maybe nobody will notice. Oh no, it doesn't work that way. Uh, it's very hard. Uh, I want to talk about finding a suitor for the company.[00:21:11] Now I know how SIADH found you because quite literally, I was at a word camp where I think SIADH was walking around, asking if anyone was for sale. This was like five, six years ago. And I think he would literally walk around, Hey, you want to sell? Hey, you want to sell? Hey, you want to sell? So I know he's got into your ear years ago.[00:21:31] I wrote a blog post back in February, 2020, where I predicted they would buy e-commerce. And I had a discussion with somebody privately that they would probably look to EDD to sell, to, to acquire. Did you look at anybody else? Did you have those conversations and what was[00:21:45] Pippin: that like? So when I first announced, uh, to my partners team, that I felt it was time for me to, to find an exit, uh, immediately after that.[00:21:58] I started reaching out and having conversations with people. Um, and I talked to quite a few. Um, I had. Uh, and I, I mentioned this a little bit in the, in the blog posts, but there were a couple, there are some requirements that I really needed to have met. Um, and so as I, as I started to reach out to, you know, people that I thought might, might be interested, I had a, I had a list of, you know, maybe 10, 10 companies or individuals that I felt.[00:22:29] Would fulfill the requirements that I needed. So number one, that, you know, obviously they had to be capable of doing it. Um, and, and both, you know, both from a finances perspective, but also from, you know, their ability to carry on what we had built. You know, I had no interest in. You know, selling, selling this to a private equity group that, or venture funded group that their goal is just to, you know, cash cow and kill and shut it down.[00:22:56] No interest whatsoever. So I had, I had a few requirements. The, I had to trust and know that their ability. Was there to carry on what we built to. They had to take all of the products. Um, I was not interested in piecemealing, the suite of products that we've built. We have a lot of overlap between our products, between the team that works on the products, um, and our customer base.[00:23:25] I did not want to, you know, send one, one, place one to another one to another, and then try to figure out, okay, what goes there? What goes there? What goes there? That just sounded like a disastrous nightmare that wasn't going to end well for anyone except maybe myself, maybe. So they had to take the whole suite of products.[00:23:43] They had to take the whole team, you know, no acquisition is perfect. No transition is perfect, but I needed them to commit, to taking the whole team, be willing to take everybody, you know, if somebody didn't want to go over, that was, that was okay. That was understandable. But they needed to have that commitment from day one.[00:24:00] If we're taking this as a complete package, um, and. You know that as we, as we had those requirements, um, it, it, we, it, it narrowed down our candidates list, if you will, um, pretty quickly, um, because for one, you know, we'd go in, we'd have a conversation and then somebody would be like, this is great. I really love this stuff.[00:24:24] But honestly, I only want to feel like it'd be cool. Thanks for your time. Maybe I'll circle back to you if you know, if something else doesn't work out and we repeated that quite a few times, uh, CYA. And I have known each other for a long time, uh, actually fun stories at site. And I have had conversations in the past, um, specifically around EDD.[00:24:45] Um, and I turned them down early on and that was several years ago. Um, so it's kinda fun to come full circle now, but with when, when I approached SIADH, um, and I, I told him very bluntly said, are you interested having a conference? If the answer is yes, here's my four main requirements. And if the answer to any one of those is no thanks.[00:25:09] Um, let's not waste each other's time and it was immediately. Yes. Um, so he, he was very, very interested and was immediately happy and will in knew that he wanted to meet all of those requirements.[00:25:22] Matt: Yeah. I mean, I could see, I could, I could definitely see like the negotiation room where like you're both in the room and then SIADH leaves and his lawyers come and you're like, Hey, we say, Hey, where are you going?[00:25:32] Like you leaving, are you staying up, stay around for this conversation. How long did that process take? Was it months Fido two months. But[00:25:39] Pippin: so, um, it, it's, it's funny the way that you characterize it, because while like, I think that's probably how a lot of people expected negotiations with sign to go.[00:25:48] Honestly, that couldn't be further from the truth. Um, it's when, when you negotiate with SIADH, when you sit down and have a conversation with him, it's a very one-on-one candid conversation. We hopped on a lot of zoom calls and we chatted face to face, and I never once negotiated with the attorneys or anything.[00:26:06] You know, it's always cited is extremely personable actually. Um, and he and I have always had a really good relationship. And so we were able to be very candid with each other and, you know, share what we, what we need. What we wanted, what our, what our desired outcomes were and what our challenges were. Um, and then, you know, when an issue was raised, um, you know, whatever it was, we addressed it and we worked through it.[00:26:30] Um, it was, uh, it was a wonderful experience. Honestly, I would, I would repeat the process with SIADH again in a heartbeat. Yeah.[00:26:40] Matt: Uh, we, uh, you know, Matt report listener, you can look forward to a, uh, interview with Saya next week. He's a little. This week. I don't know why he does things on his plate, but we are going to S we are scheduled for an interview next week.[00:26:53] So look forward to that PIP and wrapping up, wrapping up here. Um, yeah. So the hinting at the size of the deal, I won't directly ask you the questions. I mean, you are retiring. Life is probably pretty good for at least the next couple of years. Yes, no, we'll be, we'll[00:27:12] Pippin: be. Okay.[00:27:14] Matt: Uh,[00:27:14] Pippin: we are plenty to put our focus on you.[00:27:17] Matt: I like in the blog post, uh, you sort of say, uh, in the section, what's next for Pippin, uh, after finishing the transition period with automotive, I'll retire from WordPress, then put my focus into spending time with family nature conservation efforts, which I know you've been big on even years ago. I remember you talking about some of the stuff you were doing in Kansas, uh, in Sandhills brewing.[00:27:40] Listen, you, I like how you just threw that in there, kind of the Sandhills, really. But if anybody who does, like, I follow you on Instagram, right. For Sandhills brewing. And I remember it's this like, Hey guys, like on our mastermind calls, check out these bottles I made. Right. And it's just like, you know, You got like a six pack and like I made these bottles and then like our next call, you were in like your tub in the bathroom.[00:28:01] Like, look at my tub full of beer. And then it was, Hey guys. Uh, I got so many crates in my basement. Like I have to get like a rental store. And then now, like Instagram, you have people working for you. I see the, you know, the Instagram models holding the beer there's food. There's build-outs, that's like a whole, like you're not retiring from businessman.[00:28:19] You get a whole.[00:28:20] Pippin: Other big things. It's a pretty, pretty hefty operation at this point.[00:28:24] Matt: I mean, that's going to probably still take up a lot of your time, I'd imagine. And you run that with your brother.[00:28:29] Pippin: I do. Yes. Uh, my, my twin brother and one other business partner. Um, so we, we built two different locations.[00:28:36] Uh, my brother and I live about three hours apart and, uh, we, we really wanted to build this brewery together. Uh, and then we realized like, well, I'm not going to move and you're not. So obviously the next best thing is we build, do locations. Let's do it.[00:28:53] Oh, COVID tool is a interesting monkey wrench. You know, all of them. Everything about COVID aside. I will tell like the, the health and the, the stupid politics around it and all of the worries and the concerns and the financial sides I was telling you that that is one of the most interesting business challenges I have ever gone through is trying to run a hospitality business during a global pandemic.[00:29:16] I have no interest in repeating it. But it is something that I think has been a very, very valuable experience because of how many different things it taught us. You know, if you want to see a great like years from now, we're going to go back and look. At businesses that, that survived businesses, that failed businesses, that thrived and businesses that you know, everything in between.[00:29:43] And we're going to have so much valuable learning about building resiliency and flexibility, and like the ability to pivot in businesses, because that was what, you know, March, 2020 was like, that's when, when that happened. Your businesses that succeeded and made it through were those that had some level of financial resilience because do the hit the hits to the hospitality industry was brutal to had the flexibility and the willingness to change.[00:30:20] And then, and three, just the, the wherewithal to. Chug on and no pun intended, but like seriously, like that was a drag. That was probably the hardest thing that I've ever done in business was surviving COVID as a hospitality business. Um, and, uh, yeah, there's, there's gonna be so much to learn from it in the years to come, uh, as we, you know, are able to take steps further back and reflect on it.[00:30:50] Matt: Yeah, man. Uh, yeah, even, I mean, congrats on that. You know, as somebody who. Again, has been in a S has seen a small, uh, portion of your experience growing a business. When I see these things, when I see like the success of like, where you're going with that brewery, like as fast as it happened, I felt pretty fast to me.[00:31:11] I'm sure it felt, I dunno, maybe fast to you, but yeah, it depends on the day I looked at that. I was like, man. Yeah. This, dude's not long for WordPress, because like I know like, man, if I could just give up everything, I would just go cut people's grass and just be like, there's no worries about the colors I'm picking for you.[00:31:28] There's no worries about like sound audio quality. I just go cut your grass. You just tell me where to cut the grass. And like, that's what I would do for the rest of my life. If it could sustain, uh,[00:31:37] Pippin: you know, three kids you're years ago when, when my brother and I. Well, we're getting ready to commit to building this brewery.[00:31:45] Um, he, he said something to me. I think we were just sitting down late at night. One time. He was like, you know what? I realized why I liked beer and he wasn't talking about the why he likes drinking it or making it, it was why it likes the business of beer, you know, in the software world, we get this opportunity to work with and keep my, my brother runs a software company, 3d animation, right?[00:32:05] Yeah. Uh, so, you know, we get this opportunity to work with. Amazing customers and amazing people. But do you know what the truth is? Like the only time that we actually get to talk to customers, unless we, except the outreach that we do do with them is when there's a problem at the end of the day, all I am is a problem solver.[00:32:27] People bring me problems. Good, bad, enormous, small. It doesn't matter, but I just, I solve problems. You know, like if you've ever heard somebody describe themselves as, you know, like a code janitor or something like that. Like I was not for the longest time that my, my role as, uh, as the CEO of this company was basically to be a janitor, you know, because at the end of the day, everything that comes to me is typically a problem.[00:32:52] I'm kind of tired of solving problems. So the beautiful thing about. Do you know what happens? People come to celebrate. People are happy to see you. You know, when you work customer support, most of the time, people aren't happy to talk to you. People are doing so begrudgingly because there is a problem and they want, and you have the ability to fix their problem.[00:33:14] But with, with beer, people come to celebrate, they're happy to see you. They're thrilled to be in your space, you know? Yes. There's the, there's some darker sides to it. They come to more and they come when they're sad or upset. But in general, you, you are a bearer of good news and they're there because they want to be there.[00:33:33] Um, and that is a very interesting, like psychological difference in the industries. Uh, And it was so refreshing. Yeah. Yeah.[00:33:42] Matt: I can imagine. And look, if I had beer in front of me right now, I would raise a toast to you and everything early in the morning. Well, you know, it's never too early when you're selling beer.[00:33:53] Um, I'd raise a toast. To you and everything that you've done over the years, uh, you know, we hopped on this call last minute. I feel like I was rambling with some of these questions as a seasoned podcaster, but I feel like I'm just trying to hold onto the final threads of my Pippin in the WordPress world.[00:34:10] Um, like, like the Sopranos ending and just watching that last episode, like, I can't believe it's over. Uh, w will you show up at other WordPress events and do you have any final statements for the WordPress community?[00:34:22] Pippin: It's been an amazing journey. Um, you know, my, my current intentions at this point are, you know, truthfully to see what happens.[00:34:33] I don't have any short-term plans to continue working in WordPress, but I don't know what the future is going to hold. Uh, My, my goal and my hope is that sometime in the future, be it in six months in nine months, in 10 years, the itch to code again will strike and I'll build something completely for fun.[00:34:55] Uh, and it might be a WordPress. It might be something totally unrelated. Um, but if it does then, you know, I'm, I'm looking forward to that. Um, so truthfully, I, I don't know, uh, it's been work. WordPress has. Been a wonderfully weird world. And, uh, some of my best memories, the best people I've ever met are from WordPress.[00:35:20] Um, it's given me the opportunity to travel around the world and visit so many amazing places and see, and meet people from all of them. Uh, I, I realized something a few years ago. That was really pretty cool. Is that because of WordPress and because of what this. Community has made possible. I think I know somebody in probably every major city of this world, you know, I may not realize they're there, but I think it's pretty darn close because of just the connections over the last 10 years that have been made.[00:35:58] And that's amazing. And so fricking cool. Um, so you know, this might be the, you know, the end of my WordPress experience, uh, And I will miss it. I will, but I'm happy to end it on a high note where I know my team, the customers and the products are an exceptionally good hands. You know, the truthfully the future for them has, has never been brighter.[00:36:32] And, uh, I'm really looking forward to watching what they do.[00:36:36] Matt: Yeah, absolutely. Bravo to you, sir. Thanks again for everything. Uh, Twitter, I guess now is probably the best place or do you know anyone? You don't really want to talk to people anymore? Stay away from me. I'm come[00:36:46] Pippin: buy some beer, email me, uh, you know, my Twitter account is still active.[00:36:51] But, uh, I, I'm not very active on Twitter. I was very active today for the first time in months and months and months. Uh, but so contact me via email. Um, it's pippin@sandhillsdev.com. Uh, you can find me@sandozdev.com. That is that's still my place. Um, and, or you can find me at my personal website.[00:37:09] Matt: Fantastic everyone else.[00:37:10] matterport.com airport.com/subscribe. Don't forget to miss. Don't forget to miss. No, don't forget to not miss your, your weekly dose of WordPress news. over@thewpminute.com. Support the show by buying me a coffee. Buy me a coffee.com/matt report. Thanks everyone for listening. Thank you again, Pippin. And for the last time, please read the blog post, which will be, uh, linked up in the show notes.[00:37:33] Fantastic PR. To the saga that is Pippin Williamson in the WordPress world. Thanks everybody for listening. And we'll see you in the next day,[00:37:42] Pippin: everyone. And thank you. Ma'am. ★ Support this podcast ★

Today's a bittersweet moment in WordPress business land with the announcement of Awesome Motive acquiring Sandhills Development suite of plugins including Easy Digital Downloads, AffiliateWP, and more. I'm honored to call Pippin my friend who has helped me "grow up" in the WordPress community. I'm happy for him, and sad that he's retiring from the WordPress world...for now. I had a chance to sit down with him earlier this morning to hash out all the feels around this news. I hope you enjoy the episode, please share it with others!

Awesome Motive Acquires Sandhills DevelopmentPost Status CEO Cory Miller chats with Pippin Williamson, the Founder and Managing Director of Sandhills Development, about Awesome Motive's acquisition of his company. Pippin announced today that Awesome Motive has acquired his company — their whole team and plugin portfolio: Easy Digital Downloads, AffiliateWP, Sugar Calendar, WP Simple Pay, and the Payouts Service. Syed Balkhi, Founder and CEO of Awesome Motive, outlines the commercial plugins and notes the deal includes several free plugins as well. From Sandhills, Chris Klosowski, Andrew Munro, and Phil Derksen will be joining Awesome Motive as partners, and Chris will continue to lead Easy Digital Downloads. Pippin, however, intends to take a very long break from WordPress and software development.Sitting down with Cory Miller for some reflection on the past and thoughts about the future in the WordPress space, Pippin offered advice to developers and product owners today. He also identified what he sees as the biggest threat emerging for WordPress today.Key Takeaway: "The Biggest Threat We Have Today"

In today’s episode, Joe talks to Chris Klosowski, the Director Of Technology at Sandhills Development, LLC. He joined Sandhills as a lead developer in 2015, and before that, he was a software developer at GoDaddy.com.     Chris shares his journey on leadership coaching and acquiring professional knowledge to help keep his team moving. Also, they talk about how business changes put pressure on a team of individuals with varying working habits.   Episode Resources: Chris Klosowski on Twitter Sandhills Development, LLC Leave an Apple podcast review or binge-watch past episodes Send questions to yo@wpmrr.com for the next Q&A pod Visit the WPMRR website   What to Listen For: 00:00 Intro 02:20 Welcome to the pod, Chris! 05:39 Technical management side of web developing 11:08 Benefits of working with a leadership coach 16:29 Tips to help yourself stay sane while the business is growing 20:07 Changes puts an emotional toll on any team 26:01 Uniting a team of individuals with different working habits  27:55 Getting business insights from books and podcasts 34:17 Future personal plans and ongoing projects at Sandhills 36:22 Find Chris online 

In this episode, Megan and Cory talk to John James Jacoby of Sandhills Development about what he’s working on and how it can help us make better websites. John, AKA JJJ, contributes to Core and Meta, is a BuddyPress & bbPress lead, speaks at WordCamps, and is very generous with his time and knowledge. John was great to talk to, and we have have an extra-long episode jam-packed with a myriad of topics ranging from Gutenberg versus page builders, getting started contributing, remote work on tiny screens, and surgeons, with a sprinkling of useful plugins John is working on like Sugar Calendar, WP User Profiles, and BerlinDB. If you have questions about WordPress website development, contributing, or anything else web-related that you’d like to hear us discuss, go to blackbird.digital/podcast or send an email to podcast@blackbird.digital. You can also find us on Twitter as @InTheLoop_WP. ## Links Sandhills Development: https://sandhillsdev.com Sugar Calendar Plugin: https://sugarcalendar.com WP User Profiles Plugin: https://github.com/stuttter/wp-user-profiles BerlinDB: https://github.com/berlindb GiveWP 100k Celebration: https://givewp.com/givewp-100k-celebration-invitation/

In today’s episode, Joe talks to Pippin Williamson, the Managing Director at Sandhills Development, LLC - the home to several WP plugins such as AffiliateWP, Easy Digital Downloads, and WP Simple Pay. He's also the man behind Sandhills Brewing, a microbrewery that focuses on oak-aged and oak-fermented beers.    Pippin retells his day-to-day hustle in running two companies in entirely different industries, running his microbrewery and leading a team of web engineers. He also talks about success in affiliate marketing, implementing processes, and hiring skilled people that need less supervision.    Episode Resources: Sandhills Brewing Sandhills Development AffiliateWP  Payout Service Easy Digital Downloads WP Simple Pay Sugar Calendar Leave an Apple podcast review or binge-watch past episodes Send questions to yo@wpmrr.com for the next Q&A pod Visit the WPMRR website   What to Listen For: 00:00 Intro 02:40 Welcome to the pod, Pippin! 03:17 Have you heard about Sandhills Brewing? 06:09 Why build a brewing company? 11:27 Time management while running two companies 18:14 Role change and working as a CEO 23:00 Delegating jobs and handing off tasks 27:32 The importance of implementing processes 31:20 Latest developments at Sandhills 34:07 Any new big features for affiliate marketers? 35:37 How does the Payouts Service work? 40:37 Ensuring that you’ll have a successful affiliate program 44:25 The billing structure has to make sense for the customers 47:50 Find Pippin online!

Updates: Adam: parents celebrating 55 years.  Had a client offer to give me a raise.. And overall ..raised CWP prices too. 🙂   Kyle: I celebrate 4 years with Sandhills Development. News: Sectigo acquisition of SiteLock Wearing/Drinking/Reading?  Adam:   GOP Shirt, coffee, The Psychology of money Morgan Housel Kyle:  WP Engine t-shirt, Sandhills Development hat, Pomegranate…

Kyle is an ambitious creator who lives to bridge gaps and bring people together. He used to be an entrepreneur but in 2017 walked away from the marketing agency he had cofounded five years prior. Since then he's been working for Sandhills Development, a software company primarily focused on WordPress plugins, as the Director of Operations.Kyle's background includes lots of web development, marketing, management, teaching, public speaking, consulting, event organizing, podcasting, and product management.He is also a father of three, a Toastmaster club president, a musician in a band, a craft beer lover, and a travel enthusiast.

Síguenos en: Pippin Williamson lleva más 10 años creando plugins y es el creador de algunos de los plugins más reconocidos de WordPress como Easy Digital Downloads o AffiliateWP. Vamos a realizar un repaso cronológico sobre la evolución de su negocio haciendo hincapié en esos factores que no parecen la clave de su éxito o 2009 - 2011 Desde 2009 a 2013 trabajó bajo su marca personal Pippin Plugins. 2012 Ingresos → 68.496$ (Easy Content Types y Restrict Content Pro)Lanzamiento de Easy Digital Downloads. 2013 Ingresos → 360.000$ (Easy Digital Downloads)Cambio de nombre a Pippin's Pages, LLC. 2014 Ingresos → 782.000$ (Easy Digital Downloads + AffiliateWP)Primer empleado.Lanzamiento de AffiliateWP.Affiliate WP nació de una necesidad/resolver problema. La herramientas que usaban problemas.Limitaciones Envato 2015 Ingresos → 1.139.500$ (Easy Digital Downloads + AffiliateWP)12 empleados + freelancers (+11).Cambio de nombre a Sandhills Development, LLC para dejar atrás la marca. personalTuvieron que esforzarse en comunicar la nueva marca durante 2016-2017. → Reflexión: Marca personal vs marca corporativa 2016 Ingresos → 1.480.375$ (Easy Digital Downloads + AffiliateWP)15 empleados (+2).Crecimiento lento, 1-3 empleados al año. (3-12 meses salario en banca) → Reflexión crecimiento lento Condiciones empleados buenas basado en "It doest have to be crazy at work" de jefes de Basecamp (Aquí tienes todos los libros de Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson) 2017 Ingresos → 2.268.000$ (Easy Digital Downloads + AffiliateWP)15 empleados.Despedir a dos personas.Subidas de precios en los principales plugins.Simplificar pricing (3 planes anuales) / reducir fricción muchos pagos 800.000 webs con EDD - 30-40.000 clientes EDDSubir precios 2x hace 4 años, roll back priceRecurring payments viene de cuando ellos pasaron a modelo de suscripción. Primero custom code, luego addonCerrar marketplace de EDD y adquirir los addons (unos 40) que les interesaban.Creación de Sandhills Brewing.Diversificar cervecería y conservación espacios naturales. → Reflexión sobre los valores 2018 Ingresos → 2.747.500$ (AffiliateWP + Easy Digital Downloads)19 empleados (+4).Vendió varios plugins de Pippin's plugins.Compra de WP Simple Pay.Marcha de John ParrisParó durante 1 año por motivo de un burn out → Reflexión de darse la oportunidad de parar 2019 Ingresos → 3.454.759$ (AffiliateWP + Easy Digital Downloads)Nóminas → 1.874.802$24 empleados (+6).Pagar igual independientemente de sus características. 2020 Ingresos → 3.721.934$  (AffiliateWP + Easy Digital Downloads)26 empleados (+2), distribuidas en 5 países.6 incorporaciones (700 solicitudes de trabajo)Sueldos públicos Resolución para reducir huella de carbono y convertirse en carbon-negative:Comprar terrenos (tallgrass prairie) → secuestra CO2Instalación solarPlantar árboles Venta de Restrict Content Pro a iThemes / Liquid webEstaban abiertos a negociarGanar focoMejorar soporte AffiliateWP Subida de precio de 50€Eliminar la opción LifetimeAumento del 24,5% en gananciasProducto que más ingresos supone Easy Digital Downloads Equipo core totalmente formado por mujeresVersión 3.0 en el horizonteDecremento del 6,86% en ganancias Sugar Calendar Aumento del 52,94% en gananciasMenos de 15.000$ WP Simple PayAumento del 41,49% en ganancias Payouts + Sandhills Brewing + Compras de inmuebles Valores de Sandhills Development: CRAFTING INGENUITY: With commitment and a deep appreciation for the human element, we aim to craft superior experiences through ingenuity. ConservarDevolver tiempoLibertad (de ubicación)Promover la diversidadPensar a largo plazoAsumir buenas intencionesAdherirse a estándares estrictosSer honesto Publica anualmente resúmenes anuales compartiendo muchos datos interesantes de su negocio. Desde 2012: 2020 Year in Review – Sandhills Development, LLC Enlaces actuales a los proyectos: Pippins PluginsSandhills DevelopmentSandhills Brewing Gracias a: Este episodio está patrocinado por StudioPress, los creadores de Genesis Framework, el entorno de trabajo de temas más popular de WordPress. Ya está disponible Genesis Pro para todo el mundo, 360$ anuales que dan acceso a: Genesis FrameworkChild themes de Genesis de StudioPress1 año de hosting en WP EnginePlugin Genesis Pro (Diseños y secciones, restricción de bloques por usuarios…) y Genesis Custom Blocks Pro.

Updates Kyle: Busy with interviewing candidates. Adam:  49ers had a great season. Changes Cory Miller has partnered with Brian Krogsgard to help run Post Status Remkus de Vries has joined Servebolt Wearing/Drinking/Reading?  Adam:   WP Birmingham Hoodie + Woo Ship it /  Water / Extreme Ownership  by Jocko Willink  Kyle:  Digital Summit Detroit t-shirt, Sandhills Development…

Pippin is the founder of Sandhills Development, creators of Easy Digital Downloads, AffiliateWP, and more. He has been in the WordPress product space for years and has had a lot of success. Recently he's been a bit MIA from the WordPress scene, so I talk to him about the brewery he started and what he's learned transitioning from software to beer.

Updates Kyle: Hi. I'm Kyle. I work for Sandhills Development and co-host a podcast with Adam Silver. Nice to meet you. Adam: Work, work work.  Oh.. we had a Hurricane.  Kids off school for 2 days.. Overly cautious. //  WordPress Essentials Course News Anders Norén to Design Twenty Twenty Default Theme, Shipping in WordPress 5.3…

Matt Medeiros continues Season 8 with the roundtable format asking the question is there change in the WordPress ecosystem?  John Turner and Phil Derksen are the special guests that share what significant changes they have made in their careers and what they see in the  WordPress ecosystem. Listen to this episode: Matt Report - A WordPress podcast for digital business owners Why exiting solopreneurship is the right move Play Episode Pause Episode Mute/Unmute Episode Rewind 10 Seconds 1x Fast Forward 30 seconds 00:00 / 00:47:53 Subscribe Share RSS Feed Share Link Embed Download file | Play in new window | Duration: 00:47:53 John Turner joined Awesome Motive through their customer accelerator portal to help his company grow. Syed Balkhi, Awesome Motive's owner,  suggested that John join the company as a partner since his product and strategy aligned with Awesome Motive. (3:10) Phil Derksen recently joined Sandhills Development LLC after running a one-man shop company called WP Simple Pay, which is a stripe payment and subscription program.  Sandhills Development, LLC  has a whole suite of products that was founded by Pippin Williamson. (4:20) What you will learn in this Episode: Startups in the WordPress economy were easy to start as a fully bootstrapped business. It can be a roller coaster ride of going solo and joining a company, then trying to go solo again. (6:48) John – Worked for 6 or 7 years and did not feel like he was continually growing. When the opportunity became available with Syed and Awesome Motive John decided to give it a try and take the growth to the next level. It was difficult where the uncertainty and change is concerned, but he is excited to be a part of the company.  (7:48) Phil – Phil had many happy customers with his product and support. Although he had a level of comfort with his company, he did not feel like he could release the features that customers were requesting. For example, EDD could offer many things that his product couldn't do. Phil had one product to focus on, but it was distracting to jump from being a developer, then marketing and support. It is exciting to work with a team and see the growth of the products. (11:11) Product Growth – Marketing or the Product Alone? Phil – Product features and planning for the future is critical. Then the focus needs to change to marketing to get the word out to the customers. (11:59) John– Marketing is the most important focus and the lesson to learn. You can have an awesome product, but you need to have the time and focus on marketing. (12:23) Matt – For people to scale their business they need to market their product successfully and make more money. It takes a lot of time and money to do marketing correctly.  (13:41) Marketing John – There is no magic bullet when it comes to marketing. When you find out what is working you need to concentrate on it. When your business is small, you don't have a lot of money to spend on marketing. You need to focus on one or two channels (like Facebook and Content Marketing) and focus on what is working for you. It could take awhile. (15:19) Phil – Phil has recently spent money and time on content marketing. Finding what works and knowing that changes over time are important. It is tough to get noticed with new plugins or themes on WordPress.org. Sandhills Development has a marketing team that reaches out and promotes products. (17:19) Matt – Some businesses try a blanket approach with marketing and cover too much. The person in the WordPress Community that is doing marketing well seems to be Brad Touesnard from Delicious Brains. His company does a great job with their brand and content marketing. Pagely is another company that does a great job with their quality and material. Phil: Chris Badgett at LifterLMS does a great job with content marketing and his podcast concentrating around learning systems. John: LifterLMS has very focused content with their brand and audience. The material has intent. Content Marketing Focus: Matt – Content Marketing is very expensive and very hard to do as a business owner. If you are preparing webinars and podcasts, it takes a lot of time when launching a podcast. It can be hard to produce quality content consistently. (19:54) John – To test the market in the WordPress space getting on WordPress.org is the best place to start and get some eyes on your product. It is essential to focus on the product name and reviews. You need to start somewhere and then figure out how to rank it. (21:03) Phil  – Some people go to the content route first without a free version of their product. Phil likes the podcast/YouTube style. Joe Howard has started the WPMRR Podcast and focuses on monthly revenue. When you find something that is working, you can double down on it.  While you are adjusting your approach, you should be concentrating on your email list. (22:09) John – Many niches are very competitive in the WordPress space. You need to build up the business and take baby steps slowly. It is not easy. (22:53) Matt – There are two sides to this. You can try to rank in WordPress. org. But as competition starts to grow, some new business owners find they start too late with the ideas for marketing. One great idea is to leverage customer stories with a podcast and repurpose the content.  (24:21) Forecasting the Future of WordPress: Matt – WordPress is becoming more competitive, and pricing in the marketing is still a challenge.  How is pricing changing in the WordPress space? (26:07) John – Many themes and plugins have gone to automatic subscription. Many customers are renewing without a discount in subsequent years (especially with hosting or SaaS products) (26:46) Phil – Larger companies can adapt to charge more because they have a reputation and support behind the product. The customer can count on them with staying power. (28:04) Matt – Prices in the space are tiered for support for products. Customers seem to value the product and as an end user, they see the value. (28:50) John  – Customers are buying the products and making money. There was a positive response from his customers with his joining a larger company. Phil – There were no complaints coming from customers when features were released and annual subscriptions were occurring. SaaS products seem to do this annually. Phil got a great response from his customers when he joined Sandhills Development. They were excited with the partnership and the solutions that can be offered. (30:32) Balancing User Requests and Feedback: John:  He would produce a yearly survey to stay on pace with his customers including the feedback that he received over the year. Every feature that you include will be a support burden down the line. (33:16) Phil – Sent out a survey as well as tracking support requests that looked like new features. Phil collected responses all year and weighed those requests with what it would take to develop and support. Phil was very cautious about adding features while trying to not take any feature away. (33:59) Monetization with Gutenberg and WordPress 5.0 John – Waiting to see what happens after the release. There seems to be a lot of opinions about what will happen with the newest release. (35:47) Phil – Is expecting support to be overwhelmed after the release. Documents and videos will help people with the release. WP Simple Pay will not be that impacted. The page builder and themes could be impacted but uncertain by how much and in what way. (36:36) Matt – There are a lot of folks jumping into the opportunity around Gutenberg with an opportunity to sell to customers. The release seems to be a way to create a SaaS around WordPress.org. With Jetpack enabled you will be able to remind the customer about what is coming and create upsells. (38:45) To Keep in Touch: John Turner: Hooked on Products Podcast Twitter – @johnturner seedprod.com Phil Derksen: Twitter – @philderksen Phil Derksen   Episode Resources: Awesome Motive MemberPress Formidable Forms Syed Balkhi Sandhills Development, LLC EDD Affiliate WP Restrict Content Pro Sugar Calendar Delicious Brains Pagely LifterLMS LMSCast WPMRR Jetpack To Stay in Touch: Watch the panel discussion on Matt's YouTube channel. To stay connected with the Matt Report, head on over to mattreport.com/subscribe. If you like the show, please leave a 5 Star review over on the Matt Report on iTunes. ★ Support this podcast ★

Life Updates Kyle: Had a nice time at the annual Sandhills Development team retreat. Adam: Working. Kid to turn 18 this month! Crazy!  Oh.. and got 2 really nice testimonials!  One for the dev work my agency did the other for the podcast!   WordPress News Someone from this podcast speaking at WCUS!!  (It's not…

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