The Laity Podcast

Welcome back! In this episode, Andrew and Stephen dialog on the current state of the world, the Church, and our opportunity to lean into some prophetic imagination. 

We recognize that this episode is being aired amidst incredible pain, injustice, and widespread protest of the murder of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmad Abrey, and many others. To be clear, this conversation was recorded over 4 weeks ago, and does not contain any content relevant to these pertinent issues. That being said, we wanted to share this conversation with Bill Webb and Gordon Oeste regarding their latest book, Bloody, Brutal, Barbaric? Wrestling with Troubling War Texts. The problem of the 'God of the Old Testament' and the persistent violence throughout is a highly relevant one, and we appreciate Bill and Gord taking the time to unpack it! We'd recommend the book and hope you enjoy this conversation as a start point. Stephen and Andrew will be releasing additional episodes relevant to current national affairs in the coming days and weeks. Grace and peace.

We're thrilled to air this recent conversation with Justin Fry - Pastoral Care Pastor at Grace Midtown Church here in Atlanta. Justin is not only a spiritual leader in our immediate community but a close friend and mentor. In this episode, we dialog around a variety of relevant topics, from spiritual journey to the local church and it's role in forming us.  We hope you enjoy as much as we did! 

We are privileged to have author, theologian, teacher, and scholar Thomas Jay Oord back on the podcast. In this timely episode, we overlay Tom's open and relational framework of God with the current global pandemic that is COVID-19.  Can God stop this viral tragedy? What is God's essential nature? What part do we play as creation? What would you say to a suffering victim of this horrific  Check out our first interview with Tom here. Check out Tom's book God Can't: How to Believe in God After Tragedy, Abuse, and Other Evils here. Check out a recent essay from TJO, "God's Will and the Coronavirus" here. Grace and peace.

In November 2019, we had the privilege of interviewing orthodox theologian, David Bentley Hart, to discuss his latest book, That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation. We absolutely loved the book and would highly recommend! If you've never read or heard of Dr. Hart, we'd strongly recommend exploring his broader theological work. Two weeks ago Stephen and Andrew recorded a reflection on the interview, which makes up the first ~40min of this episode. If you'd rather skip straight to the interview, feel free! Thank you again, Dr. Hart, for coming on the show.

  We are thrilled to release this episode, featuring fellow Atlantan Terence Lester and his latest book from IVP, I See You: How Love Opens Our Eyes to Invisible People.  Terence Lester is a speaker, activist, author, and thought leader in the realm of systemic poverty. He's known for nationwide campaigns that bring awareness to issues surrounding homelessness, poverty, and economic inequality. His awareness campaigns have been featured on MLK50, TVONE, Creative Mornings, USA Today, NBC, AJC, Black Enterprise, Rolling Out, Upworthy, and have been viewed by millions of people worldwide. In 2018, Terence led the March Against Poverty as he walked from Atlanta to Memphis (386 miles). He finished the march and spoke at the historic Lorraine Motel for the 50th Anniversary of MLK's assassination. Terence is the founder and leader of Love Beyond Walls - check out their work in Atlanta here! Terence's website - http://terencelester.org/

Lee Hale is a reporter at KUER (NPR) based in Salt Lake City, Utah, and is also the host of Preach, a new podcast about the messiness of faith. In this episode, we had the pleasure of interviewing Lee, discussing his personal faith journey and current experience as a podcast host. On Preach, Lee "sits down with people from all walks of life and all religions. You'll hear people talk honestly about their doubts and beliefs. How they wrestle with life's big questions. And the way spirituality intersects with their daily struggles and joys."  We thoroughly enjoyed hearing about Lee's upbringing in the Mormon church, working through deconstruction, and pressing ahead with curiosity and openness as we all strive to. We're sure you'll enjoy as well. Be sure to subscribe to Preach and follow Lee @leetroyhale!    

It's been a while! We're excited to release this latest episode with Ron Sider - author, theologian, professor, and significant non-violent Christian voice. In this episode we discuss his latest book, If Jesus Is Lord: Loving Our Enemies in an Age of Violence. Be sure to check out Ron's bestselling book, Rich Christians In An Age of Hunger, which we reference a few times in the show. Ron's blog can be read and followed here. Enjoy!

We're back with a new episode - a candid conversation between Stephen and Andrew, catching up on personal life, spirituality, what we're reading, where we're headed.  Life has had us a bit slow on new episodes this summer, but we're excited to ramp up in September and launch a number of new, exciting episodes over the next month. Enjoy!

Thank you, thank you to Marty Solomon for joining us in this latest episode! Marty is the co-host of the BEMA Discipleship Podcast, the President of Impact Campus Ministries, a father, husband, teacher, a disciple of Jesus. Marty is a fantastic guest, and in this episode we discuss everything from being "people of the text" to the Sabbath, campus ministry, raising a Christ-centered family, and practices for the people of God. We hope you enjoy as much as we did! Be sure to listen and subscribe to Marty's podcast as well.  

Welcome, Gemma Simmonds CJ, to the Laity Podcast! Super grateful to have Gemma on the show to discuss Ignatian Spirituality, alongside her recent book release, The Way of Ignatius: A Prayer Journey Through Lent. While it's now Easter season, this book/episode is highly relevant for anyone interested in the Jesuit tradition, contemplative prayer, St. Ignatius of Loyola - not just during Lent! Gemma is a sister of the Congregation of Jesus - a Jesuit religious order of sisters founded by Mary Ward in 1609. She is also an author, speaker, and teacher of Ignatian spirituality, based in the UK. Read Gemma's bio here.  We really enjoyed this conversation and think you will too.

We're stoked to have Adam Gustine on the podcast! Adam is the author of Becoming a Just Church - Cultivating Communities of God's Shalom. We absolutely loved this conversation and encourage everyone to listen. Adam, thank you for the time, and continue the good work. Certainly convicting and inspiring! Adam L. Gustine leads CovEnterprises, a social enterprise initiative of Love Mercy, Do Justice, for the Evangelical Covenant Church. He is also the founder of Jubilee Ventures, an enterprise incubator in South Bend, Indiana dedicated to extending opportunity, restoration and ownership to the margins. He has pastored multiple churches in a wide variety of contexts and has a doctor of ministry degree from Missio Seminary in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He and his wife, Ann, are raising three kids to seek the shalom of their city South Bend.    

Welcome to the final installment of our Open and Relational series. In this episode, we reflect on the last three guests on the podcast, refresh on the open and relational theology ecosystem, and discuss some potential gaps. If you find yourself unsure of how to put all this content together, this episode will (hopefully) shed some light on application, outstanding questions we/you may have, and what we can take away from this perspective. Enjoy!

We're stoked to have the most O.G. Christian podcaster of our day, Tripp Fuller, on the podcast with us! For those who don't know, Tripp is the host of the Homebrewed Christianity Podcast, though he is also a speaker, pastor, author, actor, and fan of all things process theology. We're excited to have his perspective in the mix during our Open and Relational Theology series. We hope you enjoy this longer-form episode as much as we did. If you want to skip the intros an get straight into the process content, feel free to skip ahead to 00:23:00 or so. Check out Tripp's film, The Road to Edmond, here! Open and Relational Theology with Tripp and Tom Oord, here!

In this special episode we are elated to share a recent conversation with Rabbi Bradley Shavit Artson - Professor of Philosophy, Dean of the Ziegler School of Rabbinic Studies at American Jewish University, speaker, podcaster, and Jewish process theologian based in Los Angeles. In this third installment of our series, Rabbi Artson provides an invaluable perspective, lending his Jewish insight into this open and relational understanding God. We're super grateful for Rabbi Artson's time and generous discussion, and we're sure you'll enjoy the conversation as much as we did!   References: Follow Rabbi Artson on his public Facebook page here Extended bio Rabbi Artson podcast page

Welcome to Part II of the Open and Relational Theology series! We're super excited to be joined by Thomas Jay Oord - author, theologian, philosopher, and Open/Relational extraordinaire. In this episode we dive into Tom's latest book, God Can't - How to Believe in God and Love After Tragedy, Abuse, and Other Evils. We really enjoyed our time with Tom, and we're sure you will too! Additional References: The Uncontrolling Love of God  Sign up for Open and Relational Theology reading group with Tom and Tripp Fuller here! Tripp Fuller live Homebrewed Podcast @ Wild Heaven Brewery (Atlanta) - Monday 2/25

Welcome to Part I of our new series, Open & Relational Theology. In the multi-part series, we'll be featuring a number of unique guests over the next month or so, so stay tuned! In this episode, Stephen and Andrew have an organic dialog around frameworks of God, ways of thinking about omnipotence, omniscience, and impassibility, how this journey has impacted us personally, and much more. We committed to 30 minutes...which of course turned into an hour or so...but we suspect you'll come along for the discussion. Hope you enjoy, and be sure to stick around for a number of fantastic interviews to be released over the next few weeks!

In this episode, we welcome Justin Lee - evangelical Christian, activist, author, and speaker - to discuss his latest book, Talking Across the Divide. We're super grateful to have Justin on to give us some of his personal story, discuss effective communication in Christian community, disagreement, strategic listening, and more. Hoping to have Justin on future episodes, so stay tuned! This episode also includes a short reflection from Stephen and Andrew following the conversation with Justin. References: Geeky Justin.com Talking Across the Divide: How to Communicate with People You Disagree with and Maybe Even Change the World

We're excited to share this recent conversation with Kate Wallace Nunneley, continuing the discussion on gender roles, the Bible, and women in the Church. Kate gives us some great insight into The Junia Project, her perspective and experience as a female pastor, and terms like "Christian feminism" and "egalitarianism." We dive into some of Paul's New Testament language around "headship," "women remaining silent," "not permitting women to teach," how this sits in an egalitarian vs. complementation framework, and much more. Hope you enjoy the conversation as much as we did! Follow Kate on Twitter @KateWallace1313 and check out The Junia Project here!

With the coming of a new year, we wanted to take a dedicated episode to discuss the last year doing this podcast. In this reflective episode, we welcome Tom Lombardi (interviewing us!) to discuss highlights, breakthroughs, feedback, learning experiences, and how we're looking at Laity going into 2019. We hope you enjoy. Thank you to every listener and guest who has tuned in over the last handful of months - we couldn't do it without you! To learn more about Tom's work, see his website, Transition Perfect, which includes the Every Day A Life Podcast.  

In this episode we welcome author, professor, and practical theologian, Sharon Galgay Ketchum, to discuss her new book, Reciprocal Church: Becoming a Community Where Faith Flourishes Beyond High School. As two adults who grew up in church, Stephen and I enjoyed discussing everything from the "nones" and the "dones" to the Church as vital, the relationship between the individual and the church, and raising kids in a Christian context today. Parents, church leaders, pastors, and anyone interested in inter-generational dialog/growth/transformation will enjoy greatly!   About Sharon:  Sharon Galgay Ketcham is professor of theology and Christian ministries at Gordon College in Massachusetts. She earned her Ph.D. in theology and education from Boston College. Sharon's two decades of experience in ministry include serving the local church, researching, writing, teaching, and mentoring. As a practical theologian, she is a scholar for the Church and invites people to reflect theologically on lived Christian faith. She is the author of Reciprocal Church: Becoming a community where faith flourishes beyond high school in which she proposes a new vision for a person's relationship with the church and the accompanying values and practices that allow faith to flourish for persons and communities. Sharon lives in New Hampshire with her husband and two children.

Continuing the conversation on racism, whiteness, and the Church, we're excited to share a recent dialog with Dr. Drew Hart and Sarah Fe Harris, joining us from Harrisburg, PA. Drew is the author of Trouble I've Seen: Changing the Way the Church Views Racism. In this four-way conversation, Drew and Sarah Fe lead us towards a rethinking our racialized culture, "white Jesus," how whiteness affects worship, and how to engage these real issues in a local church context.  References: Drew Hart website Drew on Twitter - @DruHart Sarah Fe Harris on Twitter - @sarahfeharris  

About a month ago we had the pleasure of speaking with author, speaker, activist, and pastor, Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove, on his way home from a rally in Greensboro, NC. In this episode we're diving into his latest book, Reconstructing the Gospel: Finding Freedom From Slaveholder Religion, to discuss racism, the dark legacy of the Church, and the Gospel rediscovered.  We hope you're as convicted, inspired, and uncomfortable as we were at times - ultimately leading to a deeper understanding of Jesus and the manifestation of the Gospel in our day.   References: Jonathan on Twitter - @wilsonhartgrove JonathanWilsonHartgrove.com Poor People's Campaign School For Conversion 

In this episode we welcome pastor, author, and podcaster extraordinaire, Luke Norsworthy, to discuss his new book, God Over Good: Saving Your Faith by Losing your Expectations of God. Luke is the host of Newsworthy With Norsworthy, a Christian/spirituality-centered podcast Stephen and Andrew have been following closely for over four years. Thank you, Luke, for introducing us to so many impactful thinkers, authors, speakers, and theologians from around the world. Even more so, thank you for writing this honest book about doubt, growth, and the spiritual journey. Enjoy!

BZ is back! Rounding out our series on the Kingdom of God, in this episode we dive into the meaning of salvation in light of the Kingdom, "end times," heaven/hell, and much more.  As always, check out Brian's blog, his books, and Word of Life Church. Also, check out this chapter from Sinner's in the Hands of a Loving God, Hell and How We Get There...  

Join us for this enlightening and inspiring discussion with our Canadian friend, Bruxy Cavey - author, pastor, teacher, and spiritual leader. In this episode we dive into the meaning of the Gospel, atonement theories, and Jesus in light of the Kingdom of God. Definitely check out Bruxy's work, specifically his most recent book, Reunion. We hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did.   References: The Meeting House Bruxy.com Reunion: The Good News of Jesus for Seekers, Saints, and Sinners Twitter: @Bruxy  

Thank you, Jarrod McKenna, for joining us from Perth, Australisa, taking us back to the heart of the Kingdom. We hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did. The heart of the Father, contemplemative prayer, knowing the love of Jesus, and the presence of God leading to action.  May this discussion be a meditation for you (it was for us). "Huge platform, no products...": Jarrod's Twitter       Laity GoFundMe: https://www.gofundme.com/laity-podcast-support

Hope you enjoy this conversation with Dr. Christine Pohl (Asbury Theological Seminary) joining us from Wilmore, Kentucky to discuss on hospitality, the stranger, community, and life in the Church. Definitely check out her most famous work, Making Room: Recovering Hospitality as a Christian Tradition. Other books:  Living into Community: Cultivating Practices That Sustain Us Friendship at the Margins   Laity GoFundMe: https://www.gofundme.com/laity-podcast-support

We're super excited to share this recent conversation with Dr. Richard Beck - author, Professor of Psychology, teacher, blogger, and spiritual leader - joining us from Abilene, Texas. We're diving into The Kingdom of God and radical hospitality, the politics of the Kingdom, transgressive communities, God coming as a stranger, and the Little Way.  We highly, highly recommend you dive into Richard's work, be it his daily posts on Experimental Theology or through any of his books, highlighted below. Thanks again, Richard! Unclean Reviving Old Scratch The Slavery of Death Stranger God

Kurt Willems is back with us as we kick off our new series on the Kingdom of God. Kurt helps us lay the First Century foundations/context for Jesus' ministry, what this "Kingdom" language is all about, and which competing "gospels" were at play in his day. Stay tuned for additional guests and Kingdom-centered subjects over the next month or two - really excited about this conversation and more to come.   Want to contribute to The Laity Podcast? Donate here on through the GoFundMe app!    

Bonnie Kristian joins us from the Twin Cities to discuss her new book, A Flexible Faith: Rethinking What It Means to Follow Jesus Today. In this fantastic book, Bonnie takes some of Christianity's most pressing and discussed subjects - Bible, sexuality, gender roles, eschatology, providence, etc. - and gives readers a concise and effective look into the core perspectives, while introducing us to Christian voices around the world. Hope you enjoy! Bonnie's website - http://bonniekristian.com We have officially launched our GoFundMe campaign! As we briefly discuss in the intro, we are looking to raise $500 for upgraded gear and a year's worth of service with Podbean. If you have enjoyed the podcast so far, please consider making a small (or large) donation. Thank you in advance for anything you are able to give - contribute here

In this episode we have Keith Giles joining us from a McDonald's in El Paso, TX (please forgive the fast food ambiance).  Joining us for this discussion around House Church, The Word of God vs. The Bible, Keith's latest book, Jesus Unbound, and much more. Thanks, Keith! Great to have you as a guest. Jesus Unbound: Liberating The Word of God From the Bible Heretic Happy Hour Podcast  

In this episode we're grateful to have Brian Zahnd joining us for a discussion around rebirth, transaction v. transformation, the politics of Jesus, and a taste of his newest book to be, Postcards from Babylon... References: Brian Zahnd blog Word of Life Church A Farewell to Mars Water to Wine Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God Jesus at Night sermon

In this episode, we welcome Kurt Willems to the podcast! Kurt is a founding pastor at Pangea Church in Seattle. Additional projects include: Theology Curator Pangea Blog The Paulcast Rapture Drill Relevation Cheat Sheet   Hope you enjoy as we dive into his story, Anabaptism, pacifism, atonement, and more! Thank you again, Kurt, for being a guest! We look forward to future episodes... Other Anabaptist references: The Peaceable Kingdom - Stanley Hauerwas Bruxy Cavey Matt Baker - Recovering the Scandal of the Cross The Naked Anabaptist - Stuart Murray  

In this episode we go back to our roots - discussing discipleship, evangelism, mission, the Gospel, and how "the rubric" has changed over the years. As life changes, families grow, and responsibilities increase, following Jesus evolves and the old metrics don't necessarily hold up. That said, here we discuss the immense value of early seasons of life, some of our own journey, and a number of fun stories from the past. Enjoy!  

In this episode, we joined (live!) by Cody Deese - lead pastor at Vinings Lake Church, President of Presence, and fellow journeyman in de/reconstruction. Cody dives into his personal faith journey - how he grew up, where the "wheels came off," how he made sense of it, and what it means to move forward in a community. Oh, and he gives his top four ways to shrink a church, reduce financial giving, and cancel plans for a bigger building. Thanks again for listening, and thank you Cody for the phenomenal conversation.   Check out:  Vinings Lake Church Atlanta Becoming Cody's Ignatian Spirituality quote at the end: Prayer of Teilhard de Chardin Above all, trust in the slow work of God. We are quite naturally impatient in everything to reach the end without delay. We should like to skip the intermediate stages. We are impatient of being on the way to something unknown, something new. And yet it is the law of all progress that it is made by passing through some stages of instability— and that it may take a very long time. And so I think it is with you; your ideas mature gradually—let them grow, let them shape themselves, without undue haste. Don't try to force them on, as though you could be today what time (that is to say, grace and circumstances acting on your own good will) will make of you tomorrow. Only God could say what this new spirit gradually forming within you will be. Give Our Lord the benefit of believing that his hand is leading you, and accept the anxiety of feeling yourself in suspense and incomplete.

In this episode we welcome our second guest, Nate Gilmour. Nate is a Professor of English at Emmanuel College in Franklin Springs, Georgia, and is the host of the Christian Humanist Podcast. Nate has a Doctorate in Philosophy from the University of Georgia, with a Masters in English and Religion, with a concentration in Old Testament. Nate has deep experience both teaching in academia and pastoring in the Church. Beyond his extensive knowledge and experience in philosphy and theology, he is versed Old English, Koine Greek, Biblical Hebrew, and Latin. In this episode, Nate throws us into deep end of the women's roles debate. We discuss Egalitarianism vs. Complementarianism, Paul's vision, Biblical interpretation, and how to disagree well. We had a few technical challenges during the recording, so thanks in advance for bearing with us!  Thank you, again, to Nate for being such a fantastic guest. Stay tune for additional episodes on the subject - just the tip of the iceberg...   References: Nathan Gilmour  The Christian Humanist Podcast The Christian Feminist Podcast  

In this episode we begin with a discussion around Biblical interpretation, why we disagree (politically, socially, religiously), and the mechanisms in play when we make moral judgements. We dive into the work of Jonathan Haidt, namely his book, The Righteous Mind. Haidt gives us a glimpse into Moral Foundations Theory and how our intuitions, rather than our reason, inform our moral judgements.  This discussion covers why we disagree, the idea of conservative vs. progressive Christian interpretation, culture vs. religion, and how we sit with all of this in the Church.  For more on Jonathan Haidt, see this interesting article and his book, The Righteous Mind - Why Good People Are Divided By Politics and Religion.  Hope you enjoy!

Join us for a follow up conversation with Doug King from Presence.  In this episode we give a brief refresher on Spiral Dynamics (see Ep. 6) and take a deeper dive into the "wilderness wandering," the space in between the stages of the spiral. Hope you enjoy this conversation as we go a bit deeper into the content, into some of Doug's particular background, and into the journey that is our walk of faith.   References: Presence  The Spirit of Prophecy - Max King

Doug King from Presence joins us on this episode of the podcast! We're diving into spiral dyamics, spiritual consciousness, the Biblical narrative, integral theology, and its implications today. Stay tuned for Part II of the conversation in our next installment. Thank you, Doug, for your time and insight!     References: Presence - A global conversation for a new earth Spiral Dynamics - Don Beck The Graves Model Integral Consciousness - Steve McIntosh

Welcome to Part II of our latest mini-series on the Bible.  In this episode we pick up where we left off in Part I, so definitely start there. Here we're diving into Greg Boyd, violence in the Old Testament, reading the Bible with a Cruciform lens, "Is the Bible the Word of God?", and much more. Hope you enjoy! References: Cross Vision - Greg Boyd The Crucified God - Jurgen Moltmann The idea of a "story-bound God" comes from Dr. Daniel Kirk

"Inerrant."  "Infallible." "Inspired." "Relevation." ...just the tip of the iceberg of Biblical interpretation and what it means for us today. In this episode we dive into some of those topics, coupled with some material from Peter Enns and Greg Boyd.   References: Inspiration and Incarnation - Pete Enns The Bible for Normal People Podcast The Bible Tells Me So - Pete Enns   Stay tuned for Part II, where we take on some of these challenges head-on...  

Apologies for the delay in new material! We're very excited to release our latest episode on dualism, in-and-out thinking, Richard Rohr, judgment, and "Starting with, 'Yes'". References include: Richard Rohr // The Center For Action and Contemplation The Naked Now - Richard Rohr Falling Upward - Richard Rohr Subcribe to Richard's daily/weekly/monthly meditations via email here   Stay tuned for a new episode next week...  

Welcome to Episode 1!  In this episode, we discuss holding the tension, mystery, embracing uncertainty, and the idolatry of religion with the help of the work of Peter Rollins. Definitely check out some of Pete's work and stay tuned for a follow up episode on self-critique, disagreement, and the challenge of embracing the other. References: Pete's website Listen to Pete's talks on YouTube The Idolatry of God The Orthodox Heretic

Welcome to the revamped, inaugural episode of The Laity Podcast!  In this brief introduction we dive into what the podcast is about, why the title, who we are and where we're headed.