Divided Argument

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An unscheduled, unpredictable Supreme Court podcast. Hosted by Will Baude and Dan Epps.

Will Baude, Dan Epps


    • Apr 25, 2025 LATEST EPISODE
    • every other week NEW EPISODES
    • 1h 8m AVG DURATION
    • 91 EPISODES

    Ivy Insights

    The Divided Argument podcast is a standout show amongst legal podcasts, providing insightful analysis and thought-provoking discussions on Supreme Court cases and legal doctrines. The hosts, Will Baude and Dan Epps, bring a refreshing balance to the podcast with their different perspectives and civil discourse. They delve into legal topics that aren't often covered in depth elsewhere, making it a go-to resource for anyone interested in keeping up with the news and events surrounding SCOTUS.

    One of the best aspects of The Divided Argument is the depth of expertise and insight that Will Baude and Dan Epps bring to each episode. Their brilliance shines through as they navigate complicated legal issues in an accessible way, making it easy for both experts and non-experts to follow along. Moreover, their ability to engage in serious and rigorous debate without resorting to personal attacks creates a model of healthy discourse that is refreshing in today's polarized climate.

    However, one area that could be improved upon is the focus on Supreme Court ethics pieces. While these topics may be interesting to some listeners, they can detract from the main draw of the podcast: legal arguments before the Court. By refocusing solely on legal arguments, The Divided Argument would cater more directly to its target audience who are seeking deeper insights into Supreme Court cases.

    In conclusion, The Divided Argument is a fabulous podcast that offers valuable perspectives on the Supreme Court and its cases. It stands out with its nuanced takes on legal issues and its commitment to exploring all sides of an argument. With knowledgeable hosts like Will Baude and Dan Epps at the helm, this podcast is a must-listen for anyone with an interest in law or the Supreme Court.



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    Latest episodes from Divided Argument

    Character Sketches

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 28, 2022 117:13


    In our longest episode yet, we break down two massively consequential cases: Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization and New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen. 

    Moot, Wrong, and Irrelevant

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 25, 2025 69:33


    The shadow docket strikes once again! We break down the Court's unusual immigration ruling in AARP v. Trump (no, not that AARP!), and then briefly discuss the much-heralded ERISA case (Cunningham v. Cornell). But first we discuss some blog news, some SCOTUS news, and some SCOTUSblog news. 

    Vaxxed and Relaxed

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 16, 2025 56:14


    We have another short administrative law episode, analyzing the Supreme Court's decision about e-cigarettes in FDA v. Wages and White Lion. But first we field some listener pushback about facial challenges in administrative law, and discuss the shadow docket ruling, and ensuing fallout, in Noem v. Abrego Garcia.

    In Whack ASAP

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 11, 2025 59:01


    Thanks to the Harvard Law Review, we recorded a live episode in the famed Austin Hall at Harvard Law School. While we hoped to discuss merits cases, the Court gave us far too much shadow docket activity to break down. 

    Sufficiently IKEA-like

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 2, 2025 48:17


    We are back with an unexpectedly concise episode focused on last week's "ghost guns" decision, Bondi v. Vanderstok. But first we talk about the calls to reconsider the Court's Confrontation Clause doctrine and also return to the number of votes needed to call for the views of the Solicitor General (CVSG).

    Stunned But Respectful

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 14, 2025 66:00


    We announce the new Divided Argument blog! After discussing the blog and some listener feedback, we break down two recent 5-4 decisions -- the shadow docket fight over USAID funding in Department of State v. Aids Vaccine Advocacy Coalition and the Section 1983 exhaustion decision in Williams v. Reed (or should we say Rev. Stat. 1979?).

    Natural Side Effect

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 27, 2025 80:10


    Back in the studio after a couple of fun live shows, we discover that the Court has finally given us too much to talk about. We discuss the new Trump Administration's first shadow docket adventure, a number of interesting solo opinions from the orders list, the decline in summary reversals, and the overall quality of oral advocacy before the Court. We then take a deep dive into the Court's opinion in Glossip v. Oklahoma, a capital case with many factual, jurisdictional, and remedial complexities. 

    Hypothetical Unicorn

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 14, 2025 64:21


    Divided Argument is live from the Northwestern Pritzker School of Law, hosted by the Northwestern Federalist Society! We discuss whether we are in the middle of a constitutional crisis, the coming demise of Humphrey's Executor, and various shadow docket developments. Then we preview the issues at stake in next month's oral argument about firearms liability, Smith & Wesson v. Estados Unidos Mexicanos.

    Double Negatives

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 30, 2025 67:17


    Divided Argument is live from Stanford Law School, hosted by the Stanford Constitutional Law Center! We review an unusual summary reversal in a capital habeas case and the latest universal injunction developments, and discuss some of the implications of the change in administration. After that, we are joined by a very special guest to discuss the recent arguments in the excessive force case of Barnes v. Felix.

    Reference Check

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 19, 2025 65:33


    In unpredictable fashion, we record a shockingly timely episode to reflect the Court's hasty per curiam in the TikTok case. Along the way, we catch up on the shadow docket happenings, manage not to get derailed by an ethics discussion, discover a surprising opinion revision in real time, and break down the Court's opinion  in Royal Canin U. S. A. v. Wullschleger. Most importantly, Dan—with help from loyal listeners—collects on a bet Will unwisely made years ago. 

    Aide-de-camp

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 17, 2024 70:52


    After an unpredictably long hiatus, we're back to break down what we missed. We debate the off-the-rails FedSoc panel Dan was on, work through some shadow docket happenings and the Court's two recent DIGs, ponder the implications of the election on the Court, and briefly discuss the first merits opinion of the Term, Bouarfa v. Mayorkas.

    Separation-of-Powers Police

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 26, 2024 72:36


    After a long hiatus, we're particularly unpredictable with an episode that isn't about the Supreme Court. We're joined by NYU law professor Daryl Levinson to talk about his exciting and important new book on constitutional theory, Law For Leviathan: Constitutional Law, International Law, and the State. Listen to learn why the Supreme Court's constitutional pronouncements on separation of powers might not matter as much as you thought—and along the way you'll find out what might happen to Will if he starts breaking into his colleagues' cars at the University of Chicago parking lot. Law for Leviathan: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/law-for-leviathan-9780190061593?cc=us&lang=en&

    Not the Best Founder

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 9, 2024 76:51


    We take a long last look at two more end-of-term cases, where the Court made news with what it did NOT decide: Moyle v. United States (the abortion/EMTALA case), and Moody v. Net Choice (state regulation of social media). But first, a bit of debate about some prominent figures in constitutional history.

    Hype Music

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 5, 2024 62:37


    Unpredictably, our recent torrent of episodes continues. We take a deep dive into Moore v. United States, which addressed the scope of Congress's constitutional power to tax. 

    Reticulated Python

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 1, 2024 71:43


    We continue our breakneck pace and dig into two substantive criminal law opinions: Fischer v. United States and Snyder v. United States. 

    Ultimatum Game

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 29, 2024 58:55


    We're back just a few days after our last episode to dive in to Harrington v. Purdue Pharma, a 5-4 decision about the power of the bankruptcy system to release claims against third parties.

    Libertarian Legal Morality Tales

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 26, 2024 72:16


    As the dust settles on the end of the term, we look back to examine two of the Court's criminal procedure cases: Smith v. Arizona (applying the Confrontation Clause to expert testimony) and Diaz v. United States (interpreting Federal Rule of Evidence 704(b)) after a brief discussion of AI, political developments, and judicial robes.

    Evil Batman

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 19, 2024 85:12


    After a vacation-related hiatus, we're back to discuss Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo (overruling Chevron) and Corner Post v. Board of Governors (time limits for challenges to regulations). We try to figure out just how disruptive these decisions will be for the administrative state and somehow manage not to waste half the episode debating Supreme Court ethics.

    Back on the Island

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 4, 2024 75:04


    Will makes Dan interrupt his vacation to talk about the case you've all been clamoring for: Trump v. United States.

    Hope Springs Eternal

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 30, 2024 94:05


    We break down SEC v. Jarkesy and City of Grants Pass v. Johnson.

    Felony-Adjacent

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 26, 2024 68:23


    We cut to the chase with extended discussions of two of last week's cases: United States v. Rahimi, which upheld a federal gun law against Second Amendment challenge and produced six concurring and dissenting opinions; and Erlinger v. United States, a case about the jury's role in sentencing that continues a line of cases starting 25 years ago in Apprendi v. New Jersey.

    Small Victories

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 20, 2024 88:17


    After another discussion of Supreme Court ethics and legitimacy (hopefully our last for a long time), we discuss three of last week's decisions. We cover issues of statutory interpretation in Garland v. Cargill (the bump stock case), of standing in FDA v. Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine (the mifepristone case), and of constitutional remedies in US Trustee v. John Q Hammons (a bankruptcy case).

    Vexillology

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 2, 2024 97:55


    Unpredictably, we take a new approach and record immediately after the Court drops new opinions. We dig into Alexander v. South Carolina State Conference of the NAACP (voting rights) and NRA v. Vullo (free speech). Before that, we engage with listener feedback and talk about the latest developments in the endless Alito flag saga. 

    p(doom)

    Play Episode Listen Later May 24, 2024 89:03


    Continuing our pattern of staying a week behind the Court's latest output, we discuss last week's opinions: CFPB v. Community Financial Services Association (the Appropriations Clause), Harrow v. Department of Defense (jurisdiction and equitable tolling); and Smith v. Spizzirri (arbitration), while also covering the shadow docket order in a Louisiana redistricting case. Before those, we touch on a bunch of topics including Justice Alito's flag display and the degree of existential risk posed by artificial intelligence. 

    Poison Pill in Your Pocket

    Play Episode Listen Later May 16, 2024 76:58


    We follow up on feedback, puzzle over the Court's apparent continued lack of interest in Fourth Amendment cases, and then discuss two of the latest opinions—Culley v. Marshall (civil forfeiture) and Warner Chappell Music, Inc. v. Nealy (copyright).And yes, we know Dan's audio sounds terrible due to a technical snafu, sorry!

    Radical Agreement

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 26, 2024 70:28


    After taking some listener questions, we analyze the lengthy shadow docket opinions in Labrador v. Poe, dealing with universal relief, emergency applications, and more. We then tackle two recent merits opinions: Devillier v. Texas (takings) and Muldrow v. St. Louis (Title VII).

    Bootlegging-Adjacent

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 16, 2024 64:41


    After discussing a few pending issues at the Court, we look back to analyze several decisions from last month-- FBI v. Fikre, a mootness case with national security implications, and the shadow docket dispute in one of many cases named United States v. Texas (the SB4 case)-- and then turn to last Friday's more recent decision in Sheetz v. County of El Dorado about the Takings Clause and local land use policies.

    Dinkus

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 20, 2024 63:59


    After grappling with listener feedback ranging from the acoustic to the typographical, we catch up on last month's decisions in Great Lakes v. Raiders Retreat Realty (admiralty) and McElrath v. Georgia (double jeopardy). We then turn to last week's decisions about public officials on social media, Lindke v. Freed and O'Connor-Ratliff v. Garnier, and then finally to the statutory interpretation decision in Pulsifer v. United States. It's a lot of cases in just over an hour!

    Political Hacks Pretending to be Lawyers

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 5, 2024 59:19


    We (of course) break down the Court's opinions in Trump v. Anderson, the Section Three case from Colorado. We also discuss the Court's cert. grant on Trump's immunity from criminal prosecution, and several other opinions on the orders list, dealing with rent control, magnet school admissions, and campus speech.

    Votin' for Lincoln

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 13, 2024 53:15


    After quick review of an order about admissions at West Point and two new unanimous opinions, we spend almost all of the episode breaking down last week's oral arguments in Trump v. Anderson. What excuse will the Supreme Court use to keep Colorado from disqualifying Trump from the ballot?

    Into the Brick Wall

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 11, 2024 66:10


    After catching up on a few odds and ends, we decide to give the people what they want and discuss Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment and whether the Supreme Court could possibly declare Donald Trump ineligible for the Presidency. You won't want to miss it. 

    Muppetproof

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 10, 2023 68:38


    We discuss the passing of Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, then turn to two interesting opinions on the shadow docket (in Griffin v. HM Florida and DuPont v. Abbott), and finally break down the Court's first merits opinion of the term in Acheson Hotels v. Laufer, at the intersection of standing and mootness. Will also expresses skepticism about Dan's latest AI habit.

    Easy Win

    Play Episode Listen Later Nov 16, 2023 72:41


    We discuss the Court's new Code of Conduct, catch up on shadow docket happenings, and debate what historians can teach originalists. We then recap the argument United States v. Rahimi, the Term's big Second Amendment case). Finally, we stay on brand by circling back to Pulsifer v. United States from the October sitting, where the Justices puzzled over deep questions about  statutory interpretation. 

    Good Dig

    Play Episode Listen Later Oct 27, 2023 67:42


    The October Term is now underway, and that means it's time for Season 4 of the show. We catch up on the inevitable shadow docket happenings before diving into a discussion of two cases that were argued earlier in the month. First, we dig into Acheson Hotels, LLC v. Laufer, and debate which jurisdictional ground the Court will rely on to get rid of the case. Then, we give the people what they want and talk about admiralty law in Great Lakes Insurance SE v. Raiders Retreat Realty Co., LLC. 

    Screaming Clown

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 18, 2023 64:15


    The Court hasn't done too much while the summer recess drags on, but we're back for what might be our last episode of Season 3 before Season 4 kicks off with the new Term. We manage to piece together an episode with some items from the mailbag, some SG gossip, and a few shadow docket happenings. 

    Lib Fanfiction

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 1, 2023 69:36


    The Justices have beenoff  on their European vacations for a couple of months but we're still cranking out episodes breaking down last Term. We start off by discussion Will and Michael Stokes Paulsen's SSRN-breaking article arguing that Donald Trump is ineligible for the presidency under Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment. We then break down a couple of shadow-docket happenings involving "ghost guns" and the Purdue bankruptcy. We then finally clear our backlog of June cases by discussing two last opinions: Coinbase v. Bielski, which involves the intersection of arbitration and appellate jurisdiction,  and Groff v. DeJoy, which importantly clarified employers' obligations to provide religious accommodations to employees under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

    Map Guy

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 9, 2023 70:14


    We recap some shadow docket happenings and catch up on the latest SCOTUS ethics news before continuing our march through June opinions we missed. This time, we dive back into Indian law in Arizona v. Navajo Nation and try to make sense of private causes of action and the so-called Spending Clause in Health and Hospital Corporation of Marion County v. Talevski. Along the way, Will reveals his closet cartographical interests.

    Triple Threat

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 31, 2023 65:33


    What could be more unscheduled and unpredictable than our fourth episode in little more than a week? We briefly discuss the latest developments in the Mountain Valley Pipeline shadow docket dispute, and then revisit ethics controversies. Then, we continue marching through the June cases we missed. We talk about the First Amendment's "true threats" exception in Counterman v. United States, and then ponder the two student loan cases, Biden v. Nebraska and Department of Education v. Brown. 

    Dishonorable Tradition

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 27, 2023 74:27


    We defy all predictions by releasing a third episode in a week. This time, we talk about the intersection of public accommodations law and the First Amendment in 303 Creative and the Confrontation Clause in Samia v. United States.

    Peak SG

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 24, 2023 112:47


    In the spirit of keeping things unpredictable, we're back with a new episode barely days after the last one. This time, we take a deep dive into two jurisdiction-y cases in the Divided Argument wheelhouse: Jones v. Hendrix and Moore v. Harper. 

    My Despised World

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 21, 2023 115:29


    After some inevitable self-flagellation for our lengthy hiatus, we catch up on some recent news and debate SCOTUS ethics. We then talk about implications of the Harvard/UNC affirmative action case, revisit Mallory v. Norfolk Southern, and break down the latest case captioned "United States v. Texas." 

    Demokratia

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 28, 2023 93:35


    We record our first inter-continental episode, as Will reports in from a visit to Tel Aviv. We then dive in to two of this month's opinions: Haaland v. Brackeen, which rejects a series of challenges to the Indian Child Welfare Act, and United States v. Hansen, which upholds a federal immigration law against a free speech overbreadth challenge.

    Justified True Belief

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 5, 2023 69:28


    We a recent effort to identify the least interesting SCOTUS case, and then discuss Tyler v. Hennepin County, United States ex rel. Schutte v. Supervalu Inc., and Glacier Northwest, Inc. v. Teamsters. 

    Pale Fire

    Play Episode Listen Later May 24, 2023 71:07


    We debate Justice Gorsuch's unusual "statement" in Arizona v. Mayorkas. Then, we don't let our complete lack of knowledge of intellectual property law stop us in trying to make sense of Andy Warhol Foundation for Visual Arts, Inc. v. Goldsmith, the big copyright throw-down between Justices Sotomayor and Kagan. 

    Break the Fourth Wall

    Play Episode Listen Later May 18, 2023 59:55


    After catching up on news and bemoaning some listener feedback, we look at some opinions that the Court dropped last week. We take a deep dive into National Pork Producers Council v. Ross and briefly discuss the two fraud cases, Percoco and Ciminelli. 

    Provocative Subtitle

    Play Episode Listen Later May 16, 2023 54:07


    We talk (and argue) with special guest Steve Vladeck about his new book, The Shadow Docket, just published by Basic Books. Steve explains why it is important to educate the public about the Court's use of unsigned and sometimes unexplained orders, and how it is changing. Will and Dan press him on whether his criticisms go too far . . . or not far enough.

    Creator of the Stars of Night

    Play Episode Listen Later May 6, 2023 72:25


    We cover many developments -- Justice Alito's unusual interview in the Wall Street Journal, the release of Justice Stevens' papers, more news on Supreme Court ethics, as well as a new cert. grant on the Chevron doctrine, the mifepristone shadow-docket ruling, and still more jurisdictional news in Moore v. Harper. But first -- an anonymous caller drops a new voicemail song.

    Best Suits

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 24, 2023 49:44


    We revisit a story about Justice Scalia from last episode and then discuss recent allegations about Justice Thomas's financial disclosures, and Supreme Court ethics more broadly. We also briefly turn to two recent merits opinions --  Türkiye Halk Bankasi A.S. v. United States and Reed v. Goertz.

    A Chanting of Morrison v. Olson

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 3, 2023 61:11


    We spend most of our time on some meaty opinions on the orders list -- including separate opinions in Chapman v. Doe (starting at 25:41) and Donziger v. United States (starting at 35:15) -- and touch on the recent merits opinions. But first, we have an extended revisit of Cruz v. Arizona, which proves far more mysterious than we first realized.

    Mr. Jurisdiction

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 6, 2023 68:47


    We're back to break down two of the Supreme Court's recent 5-4 opinions—Bittner v. United States, about penalties under the Bank Secrecy Act, and Cruz v. Arizona, a death penalty case about state procedures and federal jurisdiction. But first, we take a brief look back at the oral arguments in the student loan case, and a new order and jurisdictional developments in Moore v. Harper (the independent state legislature case).

    Least Incorrect

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 18, 2023 65:09


    We're live in at Washington University School of Law in St. Louis! After a check-in with our most faithful corrector, Prof. Ron Levin, we take a deep dive into the two upcoming cases about the legality of President Biden's student loan forgiveness plan. Will explains his theory of why the challengers should lose because they lack standing—but also predicts that the Court is unlikely to agree. 

    Marching Orders

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 11, 2023 62:02


    We revisit the leak investigation, catch up on recent news, and then take a deep dive into the recent dispute in United States v. Texas over the scope of courts' power to vacate administrative rules and the related controversy over so-called "nationwide" injunctions. 

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