The Living Room Podcast

We paint adopters as heroes, but in reality, there is nothing heroic about taking somebody else's kid. There are so many ways to support such families!   Today, Matthew Anthony joins us on the show to explore transnational/racial adoption. Matthew Anthony, formerly known as Matthew Charles, is a Black transnational/racial adoptee, a survivor of a cult, writer, poet, author of You Can Not Burn The Sun (2020), and host of little did u know - a podcast that seeks to reveal the precarity of transnational/racial adoption and dream of an Abolitionist future by centering Adoptees and Professionals. He currently lives in Baltimore and is eagerly plotting his escape from this capitalist hellhole. In the session, Mathew shares his rough experience as a transnational/racial adoptee in a white evangelical family, the legality of adoption, his poem about Moses & how it's relevant to every adoptee's life, as well as how to save a black child's life. Besides, we delve into creating a safe space for our future descendants through art and raising the adoptees' voices no matter how many relationships we lose!  Timestamps: [00:57] About Mathew Anthony [03:47] What it means to be a transnational/transracial adoptee in the US [09:17] The legality of the adoption [17:52] Matthew's caregivers & why they didn't feel the need to protect him [25:06] Matthew's poem on Moses & how it relates to his life as an adoptee [36:17] Difference between white & black art [40:08] Creating a safe space for all marginalized kids & future descendants [53:43] Ethiopia closing adoption & protecting their children [54:50] Anthony's most shocking moment in life as an adoptee that shifted his perspective on everything [01:00:00] Jo's story on losing most of her relationships for defending adoptees Let's Connect! To access more of Matthew's writing, become a free or paid subscriber at https://creativekindred.substack.com/

Matthias Roberts is a queer psychotherapist, podcaster and author of Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms and co-hosts Selfie alongside fellow therapist Kristen Howerton. He holds two master's degrees, one in Theology and Culture and the one in Counseling Psychology from The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. Matthias writes and speaks nationwide about the intersections between gender, sexuality, mental health, and theology. His newest book, Holy Runaways will release Fall 2023 In the show today, we talked about navigating life through the shame that comes with accepting our sexuality.    Topic Discussed    2:47 About the book, "Beyond Shame." 12:35 The effect of splitting sexual identities to gain acceptance. 25:59 Compromise doesn't always solve issues. 34:24 Dealing with not being accepted. 49:38 Mathias's new book, "Holy Runaways." If this has added value to you please consider partnering with us by joining Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/joluehmann

Patty Krawec is an Anishinaabe and Ukrainian writer and speaker from Lac Seul First Nation. She serves on the board of the Fort Erie Native Friendship Center and is active with the Strong Water Singers. She is the cohost of the popular Medicine for the Resistance podcast and host of the online book club Ambe: A Year of Indigenous Reading. Her work has been published in Sojourners and Canadian Living. Krawec is a member of Chippawa Presbyterian Church and lives in Niagara Falls, Ontario. In the show today, Jo and Patty explore what it means to become kin. They talk about returning to ancestral lands and what that actually means. The American story is all about displacement, so what does it mean to all coexist together? Listen to this episode for exploration on that and so much more with Patty.   In This Episode 4:58 - How to be good kin to each other 7:13 - Three different perspectives on kinship 15:10 - Unforgetting history 28:17 - The first step towards becoming kin 35:38 - Books vs the lived experience 45:45 - Retaining connection to ancestral lands   Connect with Patty

Rhea Humann is a certified herbalist and small business owner based in Portland, OR. They own and operate an online apothecary called the Persistent Pestle where they craft herbal remedies for everyday ailments and take consultation clients who work one-on-one with them to create holistic health kits that are tailor-made to each person's unique situation. They are passionate about science-based herbal medicine and spreading well-studied information in practical, hands-on ways.  They also have a Patreon called Of The Hearth where she teaches about earth-based spirituality and other alternative healing modalities.  Jo and Rhea talk about the healing practices that are commonly demonized by the evangelical church. This episode is about finding joy, health, and spirituality on your own terms. Jo and Rhea each share how they blended the spirituality of their ancestors with the Christian traditions they grew up practicing. 

Kat Armas is a Cuban American writer and podcaster from Miami, FL. She holds a dual MDiv and MAT from Fuller Theological Seminary where she was awarded the Frederick Buechner Award for Excellence in Writing and is currently pursuing a ThM at Vanderbilt Divinity School. Her first book, Abuelita Faith: What Women on the Margins Teach Us About Wisdom, Persistence, and Strength, sits at the intersection of women, decolonialism, the Bible, and Cuban identity. She also explores these topics and more on her podcast, The Protagonistas, which centers the voices of Black, Indigenous, and other women of color in theological spaces. Kat is currently living in Nashville with her spouse and new baby while working on her second book, Sacred Belonging: A 40-day Devotional on the Liberating Heart of Scripture. Jo and Kat talk about Abuelita faith, and muse about their common roots as Latin American women in the USA. Listen to connect with a faith that can't be read about in a book, a faith that is rooted deeply in identity and ancestry.   In This Episode 3:19 - Connecting with Abuelita faith to live authentically instead of performing 14:38 - Intellectual wisdom vs embodied wisdom 18:57 - Taking comfort in the fact that your soul will always return to its true home 25:52 - The sacred act of survival 39:07 - Embracing your imperfection and knowing that you are infinitely loved

Robyn has always been a reluctant leader knowing that collaboration and togetherness are a way forward, but society doesn't always value this. Robyn grew up in the piney woods of Longview, TX where they were born in the mid-70s, and then moved to San Antonio, TX for several years where they attended junior high and high school. Robyn was involved in Texas baptist churches during young adulthood and sensed a calling to be more involved in the work and life of the church, but because of the theology of the Southern Baptist Church, they were denied time and time again. In response to the exclusionary reaction they encountered, they began reading theology during this time and became mesmerized by all that they were reading. After suffering a brain aneurysm at the age of 16 the summer before their senior year in high school and surviving two full craniotomies as an emergency intervention, Robyn finished high school on time and headed off to college in West Texas on a music scholarship. After falling in love with the big questions of life and lofty ideas and never putting down theology books, Robyn gave up their music scholarship to study philosophy and theology, transferred to Hardin-Simmons University, and became a student at Logsdon School of Theology. There they found kindred spirits with two faculty members and began their journey to becoming a theologian and ethicist.   In This Episode 2:49 - What is supremacy culture and why does it need to be composted? 7:22 - Expanding language to express the full extent of supremacy culture 8:46 - Why do we need to compost supremacy culture as opposed to destroying it? 20:54 - Learning from nature on how to build equitable systems in society 30:25 - The true spirit of togetherness and nourishing relationships 36:28 - Activism through becoming embodied

Today we have a really special episode. Jo is sharing some of the conversations she has with her children every day. It's important to listen to children because they are one of the people groups that we listen to the least. Children are incredibly wise, and there is so much that can be gained from taking time to hear what they have to say. So on the episode today, Jo features conversations with her three oldest children, Antonella, Emiliana, and Maximilian . And we end with the affirmations that they do as a family on a daily basis.

Jo answers questions from listeners on season 1 of The Living Room Podcast. 

Joon Ae Haworth-Kaufka (she/they) is a Korean adoptee who was born in Seoul, South Korea but was adopted into a white, Christian evangelical family in a predominantly white community outside of Detroit, Michigan. Joon Ae is a writer, Tin House scholar, community organizer, and parent to 3 kids, 3 poorly-trained dogs, and 2 very odd cats. She sits on the board of Income Movement, a national organization pushing for Basic Income, and is a co-founder of Yeondae, a social justice collective of Korean adoptees in Portland, OR. She and her partner run a small commercial real estate brokerage, which focuses solely on small, local businesses, and she is finishing a novel. As an adoptee activist, Joon Ae's goal is to visibilize adoptee experiences and help call attention to the multi-billion dollar adoption industrial complex, especially as it relates to the coercion of vulnerable birthing people and babies who are trafficked into wealthy white households from the disenfranchised Black and brown families. Adoption is a poorly-covered topic, dominated by mainstream narratives, and she believes it needs to be more reflective of the hard realities of adoption trauma. There are a lot of opinions about what should be done about unwanted pregnancies, but one group is frequently left out of the conversation: adoptees. Just about all the information about adoption completely centers on adopted parents and treats adopted children as a commodity. So on the podcast today, we sit down with an adoptee and we get her perspective on her adoption and we talk about why adoption might not be the answer for most family planning situations.   In This Episode 9:17 - What everyone should know about adoption 14:15 - The situations where adoption is appropriate and times where it is not 17:10 - Why is it so hard to have an honest conversation about adoption? 27:00 - Important adoption history you need to know about 35:12 - What current parents of adopted children should know 40:17 - Compassion for the birth parents in the adoption discussion 45:00 - Your adopted children won't get you out of anti-racism work   Web Resources Harlow's Monkey - Comprehensive website by Dr. JaeRan Kim, a transracial Korean adoptee and adoption scholar. The website includes links to resources for adoptees and adoptive parents and also provides great resources for the history of adoption (in general + transracial and transnational adoption) National Association of Black Social Workers  Statement on Transracial Adoption Kinship Care Position Statement  Adoption Placement Guiding Principles (see p. 4)   Books Child Catchers: Rescue, Trafficking, and The New Gospel of Adoption  by Kathryn Joyce Adopted Territory (2010) by Eleana J. Kim Outsiders Within: Writing on Transracial Adoption (2020) edited by Trenka, Oparah, and Shin What White Parents Should Know About Transracial Adoption by Melissa Guida-Richards The Primal Wound (2003) by Nancy Verrier   Adoptee Consultants Adoption Mosaic - Astrid Castro Therapy Redeemed - Cameron Lee Hannah Jackson Matthews Wreckage and Wonder - Torie DiMartile Amanda Woolston Black Girl White Family - Amanda McKinstry The Adopted Life - Angela Tucker   Adoptees on Instagram @the_ex_adoptee @theEmpressHan @linaleadswithlove @karpoozy @karenwangareleonard @lauraisalot @fereraswan @carolinejsumlin @theblackadoptea @teachandtransform

Camille Hernandez is a theopoet, community organizer, and podcaster who was raised in Southern California and sculpted in the Bay Area and New York City. As a Black woman and Filipina, she proudly stands in the fullness of her complicated and interwoven racial identity. Camille writes poetry and essays that blend mythology and mental health to expand the ways we pursue our collective liberation. She is passionate about pursuing a vision of liberation that is born out of both indigenous practices and the abolitionist imagination. She is committed to BIPOC folks rejecting rugged individualism in order to return to the collectivist reality that our ancestors pursued before the colonial empire reached us. It is her joy to help people develop practices to reduce harm and invite flourishing; and it is her life's work to amplify the leadership of BIPOC, queer, and nonbinary folks. She's the host of the O Heaux-ly Night advent podcast devotional (2021) and co-host of the Abolition as Resurrection Lenten podcast devotional (March 2022).    Today's interview is an in-depth discussion without a pre-determined agenda. Jo and Camille cover a rich variety of topics from motherhood, embarrassing yourself to fight for liberation, female friendships, faith, and so much more.   In this Episode  7:05 - Why liberation requires being comfortable with embarrassment 17:57 - Motherhood and how it can be a way to root deeper into yourself 24:27 - Problems with current content creators in the liberation space 30:28 - Imagination and the crucial role it plays in the abolition 55:33 - Finding liberation in sloppy situations

In this episode, Jo is joined by her dad, Willie Varela. Jo became a Christian because she was following in her dad's footsteps, so on the show today, we talk about Jo's deconstruction process from her dad's perspective. Willie talks about how he navigated the questions that came up and the father-daughter relationship amidst a foundational change in the belief system. This episode is great for anyone who is going through a deconstruction process and splitting from the belief system that is held by their family of origin. It also might be helpful for anyone who has a loved one who is going through a deconstruction process.

There are many things that Jewish people wish Christians would know. Jo sits down with Rabbi Harvey in today's episode to dissect what it looks like to live inside of Christian hegemonic power. This conversation also opens up the door to begin exploring the beautiful wisdom that can come from Jewish theology. Michael E. Harvey is an ordained rabbi, a hospital chaplain, and a social justice advocate with extensive experience serving congregations and leading large-scale community change. He is a published author who concentrates on bringing deep Jewish understanding to the public. His book "Let's Talk: A Rabbi Speaks to Christians" (Fortress Press, 2022) comes out in July and is available for preorder on Amazon and Barnes & Noble.  Additionally, Rabbi Harvey created a bi-monthly podcast with a local Episcopal priest, titled A Priest and a Rabbi Walk into a Bar, which continues to discuss religious issues and interfaith subjects.   In This Episode 3:27 - Appreciating Judaism as a non-Jewish person 12:07 - Jewish history and how Jewish people carry it with them in the modern world 19:03 - Overcoming victimization and dismantling Christian hegemony 39:31 - Jewish Atheism and other ways that Judaism teaches us to hold contradictions 59:48 - What Jewish people need the most from their Christian allies

Donnell McLachlan is a writer and theologian who is passionate about helping to create a more empathetic and inclusive society by writing for social change and advocating for intersectional and accessible theological education/research. His research centers on the study of black faith and life. In particular, he focuses on the black church, liberation theologies, womanist theology and biblical interpretation, theomusicology, and the spiritual & sociohistorical dimensions of hip-hop music & culture. Jo and Donnell chat about religious pluralism and decolonizing faith. They explore the idea of religion as a language and how that can help anyone who is going through a deconstruction process.   In This Episode  2:47 - Religion as a language 7:58 - Letting go of colonized narratives that are engrained in Christianity 13:40 - Deconstruction for BIPOC and indigenous people 24:24 - Why deconstructing and decolonizing need to go hand in hand 47:33 - Returning to the original intention of a church   Connect with Donnell TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@donnellwrites Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/donnellwrites Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/donnellwrites/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/donnellwrites

Alicia T. Crosby (she/hers) is a justice educator, activist, and minister whose work addresses the spiritual, systemic, and interpersonal harm people experience. Through her writing, speaking, and space curation, Alicia helps individuals, communities, and institutions explore and unpack topics related to identity, inclusivity, and intersectional equity.   Alicia's work is focused on facilitating communities where people can show up as their full selves. The ability of people to show up in the community has been deeply impacted by the pandemic in the last couple of years. So in this episode, Alicia and Jo have a frank, in-depth conversation about building liberatory communities.   In This Episode  8:17 - What actually makes a true liberatory community 17:58 - Addressing and dealing with privilege inside the community 25:00 - Embodying solidarity as a tool of community liberation 30:36 - Implementing transformative justice to change communities for the better permanently 41:00 - Dismantling fear through curiosity   Resources Mentioned Social media: @aliciatcrosby on Twitter/FB/IG/TikTok   Website: www.aliciatcrosby.com    Venmo: @aliciatcrosby 

Aja Barber is a writer and sustainable fashion consultant and she has recently written a book called Consumed. Aja's work talks about the intersections of today's consumer markets (focusing on fashion) and how racism, colonialism, feminism all have a place in the conversation. In today's episode, we talk about fast fashion. The fashion industry pumps out 100 billion items per year on the backs of the global south. Jo and Aja will invite you to take stock of your consumer habits and how you may be participating in an industry that runs on exploitation and causes harm to the planet.   In This Episode 4:09 - taking stock of fast fashion and consumerism 11:41 - fashion as a colonial system 16:19 - which clothing items cause the most harm 20:17 - how everyone can actually afford ethically sourced clothing 39:55 - honoring our interconnectedness through your fashion choices   Connect with Aja Consumed Instagram Patreon

Melissa is a renowned sexuality educator, best-selling author, and leading national voice for sex-positive education. Her work with Sex-Positive Families has been featured in Huffington Post, Parents Magazine, CNN, The New York Times, and reaches thousands of families around the globe via an engaged social media following and monthly live workshops. Sex Positive Families is guided by the belief that all children deserve holistic, comprehensive, and shame-free sexuality education so they can live informed, empowered, and safer lives. Melissa is confident this work starts in homes. Jo and Melissa discuss what sex-positive, empowering parenting can look like. Wherever you are in your parenting or sex-positive journey, this episode will help you to open new avenues for reflection and conversation with your family members.    In This Episode 2:16 - What is sex positivity?  4:34 - Empowering children to honor their bodies and the bodies of others through consent  12:41 - Navigating boundaries at home while also giving autonomy to children  20:12 - Why secrecy around sex actually puts children at risk  29:35 - Shifting to sex-positive conversations when your children are older and didn't grow up it  39:00 - Creating heaven on earth in your own home with open communication and compassion   Sex Positive Families Website

Mr. Chazz is an educational specialist who envisions a world where teachers, parents, and children wake up every day inspired to learn. He is committed to helping teachers and parents develop their children in a way that is less frustrating and more enjoyable and effective for everyone. He helps turn interactions from war to peace, and he translates the child's language in a way any adult can understand. This episode is for anyone who is raising a child or simply unpacking some trauma from their own upbringing. This episode can serve as the beginning of your journey towards breaking generational cycles and healing your family lineage. We talk about how to improve as parents by showing more compassion and empathy to ourselves and our children.   In This Episode  2:14 - what parents can do to help their children break generational cycles 16:16 - How to improve in areas where your parents fell short 19:29 - How to take the first steps towards breaking generational cycles in your family 22:19 - Is therapy a helpful tool for this work? 28:05 - Why you shouldn't feel shame for needing to improve as a parent and asking for help 41:26 - Preventing perceived judgment from affecting your parenting 49:35 - Reframing stigma around different ages of children Find Mr. Chazz Online

In this episode, Jo talks about her story, her beliefs, and how they have shifted over the years. Born and raised in Bogotá, Colombia, Jo's parents were cultural Catholics, so she was raised within the Catholic religion. She got new perspectives on her ingrained belief system through the non-denominational church she attended in the USA as a teenager and her college education in Colombia. Her deconstruction process began when she started working at evangelical churches on the American west coast and getting her master's in Ministry and Theology. She continued to learn about marginalization, spiritual abuse, different forms of oppression, and supremacy, and she started to see how the religion she was raised with contributed to those systems. This episode is how she deconstructed and decolonized her faith after breaking from the church.

Gabes Torres was born in raised in the colonized islands of the Phillippines and comes from an ancestral lineage of freedom fighters, musicians, educators, and community organizers. As a person who has experienced a great deal of geographical movement for the majority of her lifetime, Gabes aims to teach the message of international solidarity, and global liberation from imperial forces and cultures. She is a therapist, singer, songwriter, and organizer whose work pays attention to community care and safety and anti-colonial ways to healing and unbecoming. Gabes founded and co-facilitated the heritage workshop, a virtual workshop for the people of the global majority where they collectively explore and bear witness to ancestral lineage, stories, and medicine. Gabes and Jo talk about the romanticized narrative of interconnectedness in the spiritual community, and how this can be radicalized to create more accountability to ourselves and the planet. Listen to this episode to contemplate ways that we can be more conscious about the ways we all affect each other and depend on each other and the planet.  Find Gabes Torres Online

Leesa Renee Hall is an anti-bias facilitator and mental wellness advocate who has helped over 65,000 leaders with quiet, gentle, and highly sensitive personalities go on an inner field trip to explore their unconscious biases so they protect their energy and stable bravely in their quest to become better ancestors. Jo and Leesa talk about unconscious biases and why it is so crucial that everyone reflects on this. This episode explores ways that unconscious biases form that aren't typically part of the mainstream discussion. Unconscious biases influence the systemic biases that unfairly hold people back in society. So addressing the unconscious biases we all hold as individuals is the best path forward to creating an equitable and accountable society. Listen to learn practices that can help you recognize and challenge the biases you hold. Leesa and Jo have found that journaling can be a gentle and helpful practice during their own journeys, so they share some of the specific prompts they have been using.   Find Leesa Online

The Living Room is a bi-monthly podcast where we consider ways of existing that lead to our individual and collective liberation. Hosted by writer and theologian Jo Luehmann, The Living Room is an invitation to conversations where we reimagine parenting, relationships, community, spirituality, sexuality, politics, and where we address the individual and collective trauma of systems of oppression in order to move toward healing and wholeness. Subscribe for new episodes every other Tuesday.