Podcasts about Imagination

Worry. It's such a tiny word, but it's affect is huge—ranging from stress-inducing to deeply detrimental to our health, our mental state, and our ability to take smart actions. In today's episode, I break down a simple framework to help you stop wasting your imagination on the wrong things, and use it to take action, make a change, and stop letting worry ruin your life. Tune in.Want to attend the Fetching Water concert on September 12? Get Your Tickets Here.Other episodes you might like#218: The Quite Promptings That Can Change Your Life#214: How to Build Creative Self-Trust#180: Permission to Thrive (Not Just Survive)How to Connect With All Things LeslieLeslieBecker.comOrganizedActor.comFetchingWatertheMusical.comFree ResourcesFree Guide: The Gotcha! Exercise: How to Obliterate the Limiting Beliefs That Are Killing Your Life

On this episode of People Solve Problems, host Jamie Flinchbaugh welcomes Bob Rogers, Founder and Chairman of BRC Imagination Arts and author of the new book Deep Story: A Complete Guide to Creating Transformational Visitor Attractions. Bob has spent five decades building visitor experiences for some of the world's best-known brands and museums, work that has earned more than five hundred international awards. It started somewhere smaller. At eighteen, he performed magic in the Magic Shop at Disneyland, where the job was to amaze people and then sell them the trick while they were still amazed. The lesson that stuck came after a customer bought a trick, read the instructions, and returned to expose him. A senior magician he admired told him the shop was not a temple built to display his skill. People came not to admire him, but hoping he would help them find some magic in themselves. Bob has treated that ever since as the foundation of selling, of hospitality, and of any attempt to communicate. This is where he believes most business communication goes wrong. Organizations decide what they want to say and build outward from the message, but wanting to say something does not create anyone's desire to hear it. Deep story runs the other direction. You look far into the audience for an emotional truth that already moves them, and far into the brand for the same thing, and the part people miss is that you are not looking for two triggers. You want the one that already exists in both. He frames it with a formula he admits sounds silly for creative work. An audience, A, enters a triangle, the delta symbol of change, and comes out as A prime. A prime minus A is the whole assignment, and that difference is almost always a change of heart, not a change in what people know. The Johnnie Walker experience in Edinburgh shows what that looks like in practice. It runs nine stories, and most guests arrive believing they do not like whiskey. Rather than teaching them the correct way to drink it, the experience asks what flavors they enjoy and builds a first cocktail to match. Bob reports net promoter scores in the low to mid eighties and a brand conversion score of ninety-one. Bartenders are trained never to push their own tastes. When the Milwaukee Brewers wanted an experience honoring founder Bud Selig, the team passed over his complicated public record for something smaller. Selig fell in love with baseball because his mother took him to games, which is how much of the crowd came to the sport too. That, Bob says, is the trigger you cannot manufacture, only find. For listeners whose reach extends to rearranging conference room chairs rather than commissioning a building, Bob suggests finding someone who will guide the process rather than decorate it, and starting with the heart rather than the technology. Fifty years have convinced him that people settle on emotion first and arrange the facts to fit afterward. To learn more about Bob's work, visit BRC Imagination Arts Connect with him on LinkedIn You can also follow BRC Imagination Arts on LinkedIn and Instagram, and find the book at deep-story.com.

Send me a DM here (it doesn't let me respond), OR email me: imagineabetterworld2020@gmail.comBritish survivor Max Spiers and his colleague Monika Duval conducted a final couch interview in Warsaw, Poland, shortly before Spiers's untimely death. During the interview, Spiers discussed secret military programs, the effects of sound frequencies, and claimed he was targeted by physical and psychic attacks.

You may think you don't have psychic abilities, but you probably do! If you've ever wondered why your psychic senses feel inconsistent or hard to trust, it's not because you lack the gift. It's because psychic senses don't work like physical senses, and no one teaches you the difference. In this episode of Soul Elevation, Kara Goodwin explores how psychic senses are not black and white, why physical senses vs psychic senses operate on differently, and how learning to tune into what's already there can unlock your natural intuitive abilities. You'll learn: - The crucial difference between physical senses and psychic senses  - Why thinking psychically should be "loud and clear" keeps you blocked - How clairvoyance, clairaudience, clairsentience & claircognizance actually show up subtly - How to develop psychic abilities and recognize what's already present - Why you ARE psychic, you just might not have learned to translate the signal yet This conversation will help you trust your own inner guidance system. Mindful Surgery Collection: https://www.karagoodwin.com/surgery-collection Subscribe so you don't miss any of the powerful episodes of Soul Elevation: https://www.soulelevationpodcast.com/follow  Listen or Apple or Spotify: Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/soul-elevation-guiding-your-ascension-to-new-heights/id1442136034  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Rld3E6a4hWwySD73aBkbe?si=89d00821258844b3 

Award-winning children's book author and program manager for Dolly Parton's Imagination Library for Hamilton County, Cincinnati, Kristy High talks about the literacy legacy of the Queen of Country and why the library still resonates with children 31 years later.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/tavis-smiley--6286410/support.

Imagination is our superpower! It allows us to explore new worlds and come up with amazing ideas. Our affirmation for today reminds us to appreciate our creative selves in different ways. By giving ourselves time to imagine, we can explore different possibilities and see where our creativity takes us. We can also use our imagination to solve problems and come up with new and creative solutions. When we embrace this side of ourselves, we can inspire others to let their own light shine!

Are you an optimist? Is it better to be an optimist or a realist? In this episode, Danny and Randy discuss whether there is a benefit to being a hardcore optimist.  We'd also like to thank Tal Gur for his amazing review of The Existential Stoic. You can check out Tal's review here: https://elevatesociety.com/existential-stoic-podcast-podcast-review/Subscribe to ESP's YouTube Channel! Thanks for listening!  Do you have a question you want answered in a future episode? If so, send your question to: existentialstoic@protonmail.com

Linda Pastam wrote a marvelous poem called “Driving West” in which these lines appear:We are the pioneersof our own histories, drawnto the horizon as if it waited just for usthe way the young are drawnto the future, the old to the past.“…the way the young are drawn to the future, the old to the past.”I need you to hold those words tightly in your hands, even though they wriggle and thrash like slippery fishes anxious to escape your unfamiliar fingers and return to the quiet darkness where they can breathe water and feel entirely at home.Hold on to those words.Dr. Roger Sperry was awarded the Nobel Prize in 1981 for his documentation of the differences between the two hemispheres of our brains.One half of your brain puts you in touch with this Present Moment in this Real World.The other half puts you in touch with the Past and the Future in that mystical – magical – hallucinatory unreliable World of Imagination.Dr. Sperry discovered that what appears to a brain divided into two halves could more accurately be described as two separate, competing brains.In his Nobel Prize acceptance speech, Sperry said,“Each brain half appeared to have its own, largely separate, cognitive domain with its own private perceptual, learning and memory experiences, all of which were seemingly oblivious of corresponding events in the other hemisphere.”Dr. Sperry later said,“Each hemisphere of the brain is indeed a conscious system in its own right, perceiving, thinking, remembering, reasoning, willing, and emoting, all at a characteristically human level, and both the left and the right hemisphere may be conscious simultaneously in different, even in mutually conflicting,mental experiences that run along in parallel.”Regardless of which half you prefer, both halves are equally important.One half of your brain puts you in touch with This world.The other half puts you in touch with Possible worlds.One half puts you in touch with the sciences.The other half puts you in touch with the arts.Now let's get back to those wriggling fish that I asked you to hold.The Future to which the young are drawn, and the Past to which the old are attracted, are different time zones in the world of imagination.The young live in the brightness of the noonday sun. The old live in the twilight and remember the light of day.Most Americans attempt to persuade each other with facts. We do this because we trust Science and we worship Mathematics, and that is why we write such terrible ads.Most of us, most of the time, trust our instincts.We trust our intuitive hearts.This is what Nobel laureate Daniel Kahneman described as System 1 or “Thinking Fast” in his book, “Thinking Fast and Slow.”Behavioral scientists estimate that roughly 90% to 95% of our daily decisions are made automatically and unconsciously using System 1 thinking.Most people don't want to admit it.In fact, most people refuse to accept it.But the scientific truth is that we make at least nine-tenths our decisions in that half of the brain where the darkwater fish glimmer effortlessly and thoughtlessly, silver and gold in the moonlight.Study the arts. Learn to win the heart.If you win the heart, the mind will follow. The mind will always create logic to justify what the heart has already decided.Roy H. WilliamsPaul Kesig uses the acronym L.O.V.E. to encapsulate his approach to sales.L is for celebrating Little wins.O is for asking Open-ended questions.V is for creating and communicating Value.E is for building an Emotional connection.Paul says that pairing love with sales strikes many people as contradictory. This is usually because their experiences with bad salespeople have taught them to truly hate the sales process.Listen in as Paul explains to roving reporter Rotbart that those who have adopted his approach have quickly discovered that L.O.V.E. really can spell success; MondayMorningRadio.com

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Here is your Daily Disney News for Sunday, August 30th, 2026 - Disneyland Resort announces "Adventures in Imagination," a new attraction opening next year in Anaheim featuring Disney and Pixar film worlds. - Tokyo Disneyland celebrates its 43rd anniversary with the "Dreams of Tomorrow" event, including parades, nighttime shows, and exclusive merchandise. - Disney Springs at Walt Disney World introduces a global-themed dining experience called "Taste of Adventure," offering diverse culinary delights. - Disney+ is developing a new animated series about the origins of the Guardians of the Galaxy, exciting news for Marvel fans. Have a magical day and tune in again tomorrow for more updates.

A Search Class that explores the moral imagination, especially as seen in the work of C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien and in light of the gospel and the book of Revelation in the Bible.

The great Sufi mystic Ibn Arabi was taught by a woman. In Part 2 of our series on Sufi women in history, we explore the female saints, teachers, and muses who shaped the thought of Islam's greatest mystical philosopher.Find me and my music here:https://linktr.ee/filipholmSupport Let's Talk Religion on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/letstalkreligion Or through a one-time donation: https://paypal.me/talkreligiondonateSources/Recommended Reading:Addas, Claude (1993). "Quest for the Red Sulphur". The Islamic Texts Society.Austin, R.W.J. (translated by) (1988). "The Sufis of Andalusia: The Ruh Al-Quds' and 'Al-Durrat al-Fakhirah'". Beshara Publications.Chittick, William (1989). "The Sufi Path of Knowledge: Ibn 'Arabi's Metaphysics of Imagination".Chodkiewicz, Michel (1993). "Seal of the Saints: Prophethood and sainthood in the doctrine of Ibn 'Arabi". Translated by Liadain Sherrard. The Islamic Texts Society.Caner Dagli (translated by) (2004). Ibn 'Arabi - "The Ringstones of Wisdom (Fusus al-Hikam)". Great Books of the Islamic World. Kazi Pubns Inc.Shaikh, Sa'diyya (2012). "Sufi Narratives of Intimacy: Ibn Arabi, Gender & Sexuality". The University of North Carolina Press.Ibn 'Arabi - "The Openings Revealed in Makkah: al-futuhat al-makkiyya". Translated by Eric Winkel. Volumes 1-7. Pir Press. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Most people don't think they're creative.I disagree.Creativity isn't something you either have or you don't. It's a skill—and like any skill, you can develop it.In this episode, I'm giving you five practical ways to become more creative: learn to observe without immediately judging, collect ideas throughout your day, build an environment that feeds your thinking, study creative people and pioneers, and most importantly—actually do something with what you're learning.Because creativity feeds your imagination. And imagination is what helps you take what you already know, combine it with your experiences, and see possibilities you couldn't see before.You probably don't need another book, another class, or another piece of information before you move forward. You may already have enough in the tank. What you need is to trust yourself enough to use it.So quit saying, “I'm just not creative.”Start exercising the muscle.Observe. Collect. Study. Create the environment. Then go do the thing.Keep it simple. Keep it moving. Never settle. Stay tough. Peace.TEXT ME!Support the show

These are not ordinary affirmations. Every word you're about to hear is a line of code. Some lines build, some lines release. Together, they rewrite the program you have been running your whole life. I am a collector of affirmations, and this is my favorite set — arranged in the exact sequence they were meant to run. The order matters. The order is the code. ⠀ I AM statements to establish who you actually are. Release-and-receive pairs to clear what has been running underneath. Timeline shifting lines to move you into the version of your life you have been reaching for. Every pillar covered — wealth, health, love, success, power, joy, freedom, identity — in the sequence that installs. Say them with me out loud. Sleep to them. Walk with them. The whole set loops through the episode so it can move underneath the analytical mind and take hold at the level where the program actually gets written. Something in you already knows what happens when this runs.

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Kentucky is one of 29 states to reach a multi-billion dollar proposed settlement with Meta, a look at the impact country music icon Dolly Parton had in Kentucky, and how Frankfort has become a model for other cities when it comes to using the EPA's Brownfield program to revitalize its downtown area.

Pamela Aaralyn does something that sounds impossible. She moves her awareness into future timelines and holds conversations with the people living there. Scientists. Farmers. Economists. Presidents who have yet to be elected. She asks them what happened. She brings back the answers. And she has been trained to do this for four decades by a group she calls the Council of Nine. ⠀ In this interview we do something I have never done on this channel. She bilocates live on camera and takes us to June 11, 2033, where she meets a woman named Mai in New York City. Mai speaks directly to us through Pamela for several minutes about the era we cannot see from inside of it. Before we get there, Pamela tells me exactly how the mechanism works, what she has seen as far as the year 3300, when the extraterrestrial contact begins, what technology looks like in the years ahead, and one dated prediction I will be watching for in late 2028 that she says will define the next decade of human consciousness.

In this episode, Michael Meade explores how when the world seems to make no sense, myth can make the most sense. Stories of renewal of the Earth can help us see the world with different eyes and create new contexts for facing the threats of climate change and stopping ecological degradation. Myth has a redeeming function as stories become vessels of imagination and inspiration that can open new ways to see the world.     Imagination has a way of lighting on truths that reason cannot find. Imagination can reveal inner dimensions and hidden resources in our individual and collective lives and in the world. Mythic narratives can inspire greater imagination and creativity in all fields of endeavor while helping to heal the gaps between nature and culture.     Thank you for listening to and supporting Living Myth. You can further support this podcast by becoming a member of Living Myth Premium. Members receive bonus episodes each month, access to the full archives of over 730 episodes and a 30% discount on all events, courses and book and audio titles.   Learn more and join this community of listeners at patreon.com/livingmyth     Along with these free weekly podcasts, you can now read free weekly essays and long form posts by Michael Meade on Substack. Learn more and subscribe at michaeljmeade.substack.com     If you enjoy this podcast, we appreciate you leaving a review wherever you listen and sharing it with your friends. On behalf of Michael Meade and the whole Mosaic staff, we wish you well and thank you for your support of our work.

(Aloka Earth Room) Short Reflection & Guided Meditation | Earthworm Practice for the Anthropocene IV | Online Wednesday-Morning

“We are in the middle of a labyrinth which suggests to us many fake corridors. What's the superpower of literature? Literature is like an antidote against propaganda. Propaganda explains the world easily in a two-dimensional way.  Literature gives you a more complex explanation. Literature tells personal stories.”Today, we have a conversation about time, memory, and the bittersweet geography of human sorrow. Georgi Gospodinovis widely considered one of the most daring voices in contemporary European literature. His acclaimed novel, The Physics of Sorrow, won the prestigious Jan Michalski Prize in 2016, blending ancient myth and quantum physics to chronicle the delicate realities of post-socialist Eastern Europe. Joining him is Angela Rodel, a brilliant linguist, musician, and translator whose profound artistic empathy carries the flowing cadences of the Bulgarian language into vivid English. Together, this extraordinary creative duo made history by winning the 2023 International Booker Prizefor Time Shelter—the first book written in Bulgarian to ever receive the honor.Time Shelter is a masterfully dark, funny, and prescient novel. It begins with an enigmatic psychiatrist opening a clinic that treats Alzheimer's patients by meticulously recreating past decades to match their internal clocks. But the experiment quickly escapes the clinic walls, triggering a pan-European crisis where entire nations hold democratic referendums to choose which era of the past they will retreat into. It is a book that holds up a mirror to our own world, exploring what happens when a civilization faces a deficit of meaning and tries to weaponize nostalgia.(0:00) The Trap of Nostalgia(2:13) The Art of Translation(5:44) The Pandemic of the Past(11:30) Reading from ‘Time Shelter'(14:28) Death and the Gardener(19:34) The Translator's Calling(26:05) Cultural Rhythms of the Bulgarian Language(30:00) The Nonlinear Approach to Storytelling(34:30) Separating Personal and Historical Pasts(42:55) Storytelling vs Propaganda(47:19) Bodies, Animals and the Loneliness of the Minotaur(56:00) Reading ' Eight Minutes and 19 Seconds'(1:00:28) What makes a good life? What has given your life meaning?(1:04:18)   Childhood, Memory and Imagination(1:10:38) Reflections on God and the Stories His Grandmother Told Him(1:17:20) Education and the Empathic Imagination(1:23:25) The Museum of Memory(1:26:15) The Importance of Hugging and Empathy(1:28:02) AI and the Future of HumanityEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

Episode #458 This week we take a deep dive into Journey into Imagination, Journey into Your Imagination and Journey into Imagination with Figment.  www.thedisneycrush.com thedisneycrush@gmail.com www.patreon.com/thedisneycrush  

Enroll here: acidhorizonpodcast.com/ahrc-courses. Use code 3FOR2FALL2026 at checkout for three courses at the price of two.Were the philosophers of the Kyoto School fascist collaborators, or were they meeting in secret with the Imperial Navy to try to stop a war? Fernando Wirtz and Takeshi Morisato join Craig for a primer on Japan's most influential and most contested philosophical tradition, from Nishida and Tanabe through Miki Kiyoshi and Tosaka Jun. The conversation covers what "nothingness" actually means in Japanese thought and why it isn't Heidegger's, how Miki tried to collapse reason and unreason into a logic of imagination, and what tenkō, or forced ideological conversion, did to a generation of Marxist intellectuals. It closes on the newly surfaced Ōshima Memo and the question of what it costs to think under fascism.Books mentioned in this episodeMiki Kiyoshi, The Logic of Imagination, translated by John W. M. Krummel (Bloomsbury Studies in World Philosophies)Itabashi Yūjin, Nishitani's Philosophy of the Body (Bloomsbury Studies in World Philosophies)Nishida Kitarō, An Inquiry into the Good (Zen no Kenkyū)By our guestsŌhashi Ryōsuke, The Kyoto School and the Japanese Navy, translated by Takeshi Morisato (Bloomsbury Studies in World Philosophies, forthcoming)Fernando Wirtz, Myth and Ideology: An Essay on Philosophy of Political Action in Japan (2023)Support the showSupport the podcast:AHRCCurrent classes at Acid Horizon Research Commons (AHRC): acidhorizonresearchcommons.comAHRC Course Archive: https://www.acidhorizonpodcast.com/ahrc-course-archivesSubmit your course proposal: acidhorizonresearchcommons@gmail.comMore LinksWebsite: https://www.acidhorizonpodcast.com/Linktree: https://linktr.ee/acidhorizonAcid Horizon on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/acidhorizonpodcastBoycott Watkins Media: https://xenogothic.com/2025/03/17/boycott-watkins-statement/Subscribe to us on your favorite podcast: https://pod.link/1512615438Merch: http://www.crit-drip.comSubscribe to us on your favorite podcast platform: https://pod.link/1512615438LEPHT HAND: https://www.patreon.com/LEPHTHANDHappy Hour at Hippel's (Adam's blog): https://happyhourathippels.wordpress.com​Split Infinities (Craig's Substack): https://splitinfinities.substack.com/​Music: https://sereptie.bandcamp.com/ and https://thecominginsurrection.bandcamp.com/

Today on AirTalk: Remembering Dolly Parton (0:30) Listener memories of Dolly Parton (51:11) College enrollment decline (1:11:13) The power of imagination (1:25:44) Visit www.preppi.com/LAist to receive a FREE Preppi Emergency Kit (with any purchase over $100) and be prepared for the next wildfire, earthquake or emergency.

Now that the dust has somewhat settled, and though I have already done some very detailed announcements around Piston Peak, Imagination, Tomorrowland and Villains Land, there are so many other details from my experience at Disneyland and at the expo that I haven't really unpacked. It's taken me many days to get my head around everything that took place. This podcast is my effort to summarize all of that, to better get a sense of the whole of D23, not just park announcements--which I have a lot to cover--but the event itself, from D23 day at Disneyland to the Exposition floor to the Honda Center events at night. It was an incredible, but intense and intimate experience--shared with some other 100,000 people. Join me as we look at insights on D23 and the promises ahead for the Disney Parks. Be sure to check out my latest endeavor, Disneyland Insights: Inspiration, Ideas & Magic for You and Your Organization. __________________________________________________ Disney Insights YouTube Page--Check it out and subscribe. DisneyInsights.com--So many resources at our home site. Be sure to subscribe to receive notice of upcoming podcasts. My newest book, A Century of Powerful Disney Insights, Volume I 1923-1973, The Walt & Roy Disney Years is available!  Also, check out my two of my other books, The Wonderful World of Customer Service at Disney and Disney, Leadership and You.  Also, for those examining other business benchmarks beyond Disney, check out Lead with Your Customer: Transform Culture and Brand Into World-Class Excellence. _______________________________________________________ Check out Zanolla Travel to book your next vacation!  David & Leah Zanolla ZanollaTravel.com Owner/Agents (309) 863-5469 _________________________________________________________ Performance Journeys This podcast and post is provided by J. Jeff Kober and Performance Journeys, which celebrates more than 20 years as a training and development group bringing best in business ideas through books, keynotes, workshops, seminars and online tools to help you take your organization to the next level. Want a Keynote Speaker? More than just nice stories, I offer proven insight and solutions having worked in the trench. Need Consulting? I've worked for decades across the public, private and non-profit arena.  Need Support? We offer so many classroom, online, and other resources to help you improve your customer service delivery, leadership excellence, and employee engagement. Contact us today, and let us help you on your Performance Journey!  

One day, don't you want to shine like the stars forever? Listen in to hear Joni share about how you can make that happen. -------- Thank you for listening! Your support of Joni and Friends helps make this show possible. Joni and Friends envisions a world where every person with a disability finds hope, dignity, and their place in the body of Christ. Become part of the global movement today at www.joniandfriends.org Find more encouragement on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and YouTube.

Reading is a magical gateway to different worlds, eras, and adventures. When we read, our minds are taken on journeys that inspire creativity and fire up our imagination. Today's Charm Words are about the transformative power of reading and how it can expand our horizons, inspiring us to think above and beyond!

(Aloka Earth Room) Short Reflection & Guided Meditation | Earthworm Practice for the Anthropocene IV | Online Wednesday-Morning

Dr. Liz Aguirre is a remarkable women. She grew up in poverty without reliable access to food or shelter and is now a mom, wife, and a physician with passion for person-centered health. We talk about how she grew her wealthy mindset and how coaching has assisted that journey. I am so lucky to have great clients like Dr. Liz. You can find Liz Aguire at: https://www.lizaguirremd.com/Watch Liz's TEDx Talks: End Professional Burnout: Become More Energized and Less Stressed https://youtu.be/Mo9DS6kBDyYWhy the Secret to Fulfillment is Imagination https://youtu.be/_D9zcEOheqcPlease subscribe and leave a review on your favorite Podcasting platform. Get 12 Financial Mistakes that Keep Physicians from Building Wealth at https://www.growyourwealthymindset.com/12financialmistakesIf you want to start your path to financial freedom, start with the Financial Freedom Workbook. Download your free copy today at https://www.GrowYourWealthyMindset.com/fiworkbookDr. Elisa Chiang is  a physician and money coach who helps other doctors reach their financial goals by mastering their money mindset through personalized 1:1 coaching .You can learn more about Elisa at her website or follow her on social media.Website: https://ww.GrowYourWealthyMindset.comInstagram https://www.instagram.com/GrowYourWealthyMindsetFacebook https://www.facebook.com/ElisaChianghttps://www.facebook.com/GrowYourWealthyMindsetYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/WealthyMindsetMDLinked In: www.linkedin.com/in/ElisaChiang Disclaimer: The content provided in the Grow Your Wealthy Mindset Podcast...

Classical Christian education often talks about forming students to love what is true, good, and beautiful. But how does that formation actually happen? In this episode of BaseCamp Live, Davies Owens is joined by author, educator, and podcaster Heidi White to explore the formative power of stories. Heidi shares how literature shaped her own life and explains why great books do far more than communicate ideas or teach moral lessons. They awaken desire, give children models worthy of imitation, and help them wrestle with some of the deepest questions of what it means to be human. Drawing from her book The Divided Soul: Duty and Desire in Literature and Life, Heidi explores the tension between what we want and what we know we ought to do, and how that struggle appears again and again in great literature, Scripture, and our own lives. Davies and Heidi also get practical about reading with children. How much should parents explain? Should we protect children from darker moments in stories? And how can we ask questions that invite genuine thought rather than turning every book into another moral lesson? This conversation is an invitation to see education differently: not simply as the transfer of information, but as the formation of loves, desires, imagination, and ultimately, the human soul. Special Thanks to our partners who make BaseCamp Live possible: Wisdom and EloquenceThe Herzog FoundationLife ArchitectsWisephone by TechlessZipCast Stay tuned for more enlightening discussions on classical Christian education, and join us next time on BaseCamp Live! Remember to subscribe, leave us a review, and reach out to us at info@basecamplive.comDon't forget to visit basecamplive.com for more info and past episodes.

Send me a DM here (it doesn't let me respond), OR email me: imagineabetterworld2020@gmail.comIn this 2014 segment from the Bases 37 interviews (conducted by Miles Johnston in Broadstairs, Kent), Max Spiers discusses alleged occult and programming elements within the music industry.  He connects pop music and celebrity culture to bloodline rituals, referencing Aleister Crowley's unfinished work at Boleskine House, the 72 demons associated with King Solomon, energy grids, and portals. Spiers claims the industry harvests individuals from specific bloodlines for ritual purposes, citing examples involving Bob Geldof, the death of Peaches Geldof, and Michael Hutchence. He references James Casbolt's list of “endangered” people and links these themes to broader claims of satanic networks, Live Aid symbolism, NHS tracking, and Project Oak Tree.  The conversation also covers reptilian/inner-earth influences (including the Rothschild family as intermediaries), the Black Sun, Montauk-related time travel, crystal skulls, reincarnation cycles tied to the precession of the equinoxes, and Spiers' own reported super-soldier experiences (implants, DNA aspects, and early trauma). The interviewer interjects frequently. The segment ends with comments on shifting planetary forces and a possible reset.  This is one extracted portion of the larger multi-part Bases 37 series.

“We are in the middle of a labyrinth which suggests to us many fake corridors. What's the superpower of literature? Literature is like an antidote against propaganda. Propaganda explains the world easily in a two-dimensional way.  Literature gives you a more complex explanation. Literature tells personal stories.”Today, we have a conversation about time, memory, and the bittersweet geography of human sorrow. Georgi Gospodinovis widely considered one of the most daring voices in contemporary European literature. His acclaimed novel, The Physics of Sorrow, won the prestigious Jan Michalski Prize in 2016, blending ancient myth and quantum physics to chronicle the delicate realities of post-socialist Eastern Europe. Joining him is Angela Rodel, a brilliant linguist, musician, and translator whose profound artistic empathy carries the flowing cadences of the Bulgarian language into vivid English. Together, this extraordinary creative duo made history by winning the 2023 International Booker Prizefor Time Shelter—the first book written in Bulgarian to ever receive the honor.Time Shelter is a masterfully dark, funny, and prescient novel. It begins with an enigmatic psychiatrist opening a clinic that treats Alzheimer's patients by meticulously recreating past decades to match their internal clocks. But the experiment quickly escapes the clinic walls, triggering a pan-European crisis where entire nations hold democratic referendums to choose which era of the past they will retreat into. It is a book that holds up a mirror to our own world, exploring what happens when a civilization faces a deficit of meaning and tries to weaponize nostalgia.(0:00) The Trap of Nostalgia(2:13) The Art of Translation(5:44) The Pandemic of the Past(11:30) Reading from ‘Time Shelter'(14:28) Death and the Gardener(19:34) The Translator's Calling(26:05) Cultural Rhythms of the Bulgarian Language(30:00) The Nonlinear Approach to Storytelling(34:30) Separating Personal and Historical Pasts(42:55) Storytelling vs Propaganda(47:19) Bodies, Animals and the Loneliness of the Minotaur(56:00) Reading ' Eight Minutes and 19 Seconds'(1:00:28) What makes a good life? What has given your life meaning?(1:04:18)   Childhood, Memory and Imagination(1:10:38) Reflections on God and the Stories His Grandmother Told Him(1:17:20) Education and the Empathic Imagination(1:23:25) The Museum of Memory(1:26:15) The Importance of Hugging and Empathy(1:28:02) AI and the Future of HumanityEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

“We are in the middle of a labyrinth which suggests to us many fake corridors. What's the superpower of literature? Literature is like an antidote against propaganda. Propaganda explains the world easily in a two-dimensional way.  Literature gives you a more complex explanation. Literature tells personal stories.”Today, we have a conversation about time, memory, and the bittersweet geography of human sorrow. Georgi Gospodinovis widely considered one of the most daring voices in contemporary European literature. His acclaimed novel, The Physics of Sorrow, won the prestigious Jan Michalski Prize in 2016, blending ancient myth and quantum physics to chronicle the delicate realities of post-socialist Eastern Europe. Joining him is Angela Rodel, a brilliant linguist, musician, and translator whose profound artistic empathy carries the flowing cadences of the Bulgarian language into vivid English. Together, this extraordinary creative duo made history by winning the 2023 International Booker Prizefor Time Shelter—the first book written in Bulgarian to ever receive the honor.Time Shelter is a masterfully dark, funny, and prescient novel. It begins with an enigmatic psychiatrist opening a clinic that treats Alzheimer's patients by meticulously recreating past decades to match their internal clocks. But the experiment quickly escapes the clinic walls, triggering a pan-European crisis where entire nations hold democratic referendums to choose which era of the past they will retreat into. It is a book that holds up a mirror to our own world, exploring what happens when a civilization faces a deficit of meaning and tries to weaponize nostalgia.(0:00) The Trap of Nostalgia(2:13) The Art of Translation(5:44) The Pandemic of the Past(11:30) Reading from ‘Time Shelter'(14:28) Death and the Gardener(19:34) The Translator's Calling(26:05) Cultural Rhythms of the Bulgarian Language(30:00) The Nonlinear Approach to Storytelling(34:30) Separating Personal and Historical Pasts(42:55) Storytelling vs Propaganda(47:19) Bodies, Animals and the Loneliness of the Minotaur(56:00) Reading ' Eight Minutes and 19 Seconds'(1:00:28) What makes a good life? What has given your life meaning?(1:04:18)   Childhood, Memory and Imagination(1:10:38) Reflections on God and the Stories His Grandmother Told Him(1:17:20) Education and the Empathic Imagination(1:23:25) The Museum of Memory(1:26:15) The Importance of Hugging and Empathy(1:28:02) AI and the Future of HumanityEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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You've probably been told that anxiety is a reaction to what's happening in your life. But my guest today says that's not the whole story. Most of your anxiety isn't a reaction to what's actually happening — it's a reaction to what you're imagining might happen. You get an email that says "can we talk tomorrow?" and your mind writes an entire disaster. Your brain then releases the same stress hormones whether the threat is real or imagined. My guest is Dr. Cassandra Vieten, a licensed clinical psychologist and director of research at the Arthur C. Clarke Center for Human Imagination at UC San Diego. Her new book is Imagine That. Some of the things we discuss are: Why you're imagining far more than you think — and how your brain reacts as if what you're imagining is actually happening The Mark Twain quote about worry that will stop you in your tracks Why "just think positive" backfires — and what to do with your imagination instead Your imagination profile — why some people see vivid pictures, others hear narrated stories, and both are valid ways of imagining How to visit your future self — and the surprising question to ask when you get there How to tell the difference between rumination and imagination The dragon-in-the-village metaphor Dr. Vieten uses for addiction — and why a good story can reach truths your logical mind can't The Therapist's Take: My top three strategies for using your imagination to grow mentally stronger Related Episodes ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠318 — How to Turn Anxiety Into a Competitive Advantage With a 2-Minute Play That Tricks Your Brain ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠144 — 7 Surprising Strategies That Fix Anxiety (Even Though We Fear These Things Will Make Anxiety Worse) Links & Resources ⁠Imagine That Connect with the Show Buy a copy of⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠13 Things Mentally Strong People Don't Do⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect with Amy on Instagram —⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@AmyMorinAuthor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sign Up for My Newsletter —⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://amymorinlcsw.com/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sponsors Lola Blankets - Head to⁠⁠⁠ LolaBlankets.com⁠⁠⁠ and use code STRONGER to get 40% OFF your order. AirDoctor — Head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AirDoctorPro.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠and use promo code STRONGER to get UP TO $300 off today! One Skin — Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠oneskin.co/STRONGER⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code stronger to get up to 30% off your first 3 subscription orders Quince — Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/stronger⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns! Boll & Branch — Get 20% off sitewide at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/stronger⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ with code stronger. Square — Get up to $200 off Square hardware at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠square.com/go/STRONGER⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Dupe — Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Dupe.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠to finally feel confident about what to buy. Subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Mentally Stronger Premium⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for exclusive content like weekly bonus episodes, mental strength challenges, and office hours with me. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Len Testa and Jim Hill unpack a packed slate of D23 parks announcements, from Disneyland's newly promised Tomorrowland overhaul to major additions coming to Walt Disney World. They dig into Tropical Americas, Piston Peak, Villains Land, Monstropolis, Figment and Dreamfinder's return to EPCOT, and Disney's surprising promise to finally address Expedition Everest's Yeti. Then Jim looks back at the history of Disney-MGM Studios' Ewok Village, its connection to Star Tours, and the unusual road that brought George Lucas' galaxy to a Hollywood-themed park. NEWS • Disneyland plans a Tomorrowland overhaul inspired by the land's original sense of hope and optimism. • Disney California Adventure's Pandora project moves behind Tomorrowland while Avengers Infinity Defense, Stark Flight Lab, and the Coco attraction continue taking shape. • Walt Disney World reveals new details for Tropical Americas, Piston Peak National Park, Villains Land, and the phased opening of Monstropolis. • Dreamfinder and Figment are headed back to EPCOT in a still-mysterious new “flight of fancy” into Imagination. • Disney says Expedition Everest's long-static Yeti will finally be addressed, though exactly what “fixing” the figure means remains to be seen. FEATURE • Jim traces the 1989 opening of the Ewok Village at Disney-MGM Studios, months before Florida's Star Tours began carrying guests to Endor. • Learn why Florida's Star Tours wound up at the Studios instead of Tomorrowland and how Disney tried to make George Lucas part of the park's identity. • The story explores George Lucas' inspirations for the Ewoks, the abandoned Wookiee plans for Return of the Jedi, and Disney's enthusiasm for the franchise's most marketable forest dwellers. • Plus, Jim revisits unrealized ideas including a Sci-Fi Channel UFO headquarters and the Roger Rabbit-themed Toontown Transit simulator. For this episode's full show notes, click here.HOSTS • Jim Hill - X/Twitter: @JimHillMedia | Instagram: @JimHillMedia | jimhillmedia.com • Len Testa - Bluesky: @lentesta.bsky.social | Instagram: @len.testa | touringplans.com FOLLOW • Facebook: @JimHillMediaNews • YouTube: @jimhillmedia • TikTok: @jimhillmedia • Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/jimhillmedia/ SUPPORT Support the show and access bonus episodes and additional content at https://www.patreon.com/jimhillmedia. PRODUCTION CREDITS Edited by Dave Grey Produced by Eric Hersey - https://strongmindedagency.com SPONSOR Disney Dish News is sponsored by BeOurGuestVacations.com, from our friends at DVCRentalStore.com. If you would like to sponsor a show on the Jim Hill Media Podcast Network, reach out today. https://www.jimhillmedia.com/sponsor/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Len Testa and Jim Hill unpack a packed slate of D23 parks announcements, from Disneyland's newly promised Tomorrowland overhaul to major additions coming to Walt Disney World. They dig into Tropical Americas, Piston Peak, Villains Land, Monstropolis, Figment and Dreamfinder's return to EPCOT, and Disney's surprising promise to finally address Expedition Everest's Yeti. Then Jim looks back at the history of Disney-MGM Studios' Ewok Village, its connection to Star Tours, and the unusual road that brought George Lucas' galaxy to a Hollywood-themed park. NEWS • Disneyland plans a Tomorrowland overhaul inspired by the land's original sense of hope and optimism. • Disney California Adventure's Pandora project moves behind Tomorrowland while Avengers Infinity Defense, Stark Flight Lab, and the Coco attraction continue taking shape. • Walt Disney World reveals new details for Tropical Americas, Piston Peak National Park, Villains Land, and the phased opening of Monstropolis. • Dreamfinder and Figment are headed back to EPCOT in a still-mysterious new “flight of fancy” into Imagination. • Disney says Expedition Everest's long-static Yeti will finally be addressed, though exactly what “fixing” the figure means remains to be seen. FEATURE • Jim traces the 1989 opening of the Ewok Village at Disney-MGM Studios, months before Florida's Star Tours began carrying guests to Endor. • Learn why Florida's Star Tours wound up at the Studios instead of Tomorrowland and how Disney tried to make George Lucas part of the park's identity. • The story explores George Lucas' inspirations for the Ewoks, the abandoned Wookiee plans for Return of the Jedi, and Disney's enthusiasm for the franchise's most marketable forest dwellers. • Plus, Jim revisits unrealized ideas including a Sci-Fi Channel UFO headquarters and the Roger Rabbit-themed Toontown Transit simulator. For this episode's full show notes, click here.HOSTS • Jim Hill - X/Twitter: @JimHillMedia | Instagram: @JimHillMedia | jimhillmedia.com • Len Testa - Bluesky: @lentesta.bsky.social | Instagram: @len.testa | touringplans.com FOLLOW • Facebook: @JimHillMediaNews • YouTube: @jimhillmedia • TikTok: @jimhillmedia • Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/jimhillmedia/ SUPPORT Support the show and access bonus episodes and additional content at https://www.patreon.com/jimhillmedia. PRODUCTION CREDITS Edited by Dave Grey Produced by Eric Hersey - https://strongmindedagency.com SPONSOR Disney Dish News is sponsored by BeOurGuestVacations.com, from our friends at DVCRentalStore.com. If you would like to sponsor a show on the Jim Hill Media Podcast Network, reach out today. https://www.jimhillmedia.com/sponsor/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kyle and I going deep about recent interviews and our upcoming events and who we should interview next.    

Raad Enlightenment is a psychic, astrologer, and channel who lives in Lebanon and works directly with what he calls the divine truth within. What he shares in this conversation is heavier than most of what I put on the show. His awakening happened at 21 when something completely pierced open his third eye and never fully closed, and for the past several years he has been living inside a full-time transmission that he estimates comes through him at 75 to 100 percent of the time. He speaks with a directness that is rare in this space. He names the entities. He names the mechanism. He names the reason we get caught. ⠀ We go into all of it. Why his awakening pushed him into direct confrontation with what he calls the reptilian program. Why almost every fast food company brands in red. The cord you are already plugged into and the two-way stream sending your essence out to the system and pulling false light back. The eight to twelve entities the average person is carrying inside their vehicle. Why fear is the food but false identity is the trap. The dark side of the moon and what happens to souls who get caught on their way out. The projection system running through the English language itself. The Middle East grid he says he has been transmuting for the last three years from Lebanon, and the karmic overlay from Jesus he says he still feels walking down the street. The specific signs someone has an entity attached including one you would not expect. And the timeline he keeps being shown for the collective — full spirit utilization by 2030.  

A poem about a map opens North and South, the first collection of the great twentieth century poet Elizabeth Bishop, and since, maps have been associated with her poetic vision—at once telescoping and binocular—and with the polarities and preoccupations of her work. The map's privileged, sweeping, bird's eye view of the earth is also hand-held, man-made, intimate. Depending on its level of minuteness or obsession, it can contain the tiniest details as well as, let's say, the whole enchilada. And though it purports to be scientific and objective, it is representational and therefore subjective, particular, imaginative, and personal. For several episodes, Wes & Erin will be reading a selection of some of Bishop's most anthologized poems, starting with “The Moose” as expressions of, among other things, her map-like imagination. Upcoming Episodes: Nolan’s adaptation of “The Odyssey”; more Elizabeth Bishop poetry: “First Death in Nova Scotia,” “One Art.” Pre-order Erin’s forthcoming book “Avail” here: http://subtextpodcast.com/avail For bonus content, become a paid subscriber at Patreon or directly on the Apple Podcasts app. Patreon subscribers also get early access to ad-free regular episodes. This podcast is part of the Airwave Media podcast network. Visit AirwaveMedia.com to listen and subscribe to other Airwave shows like Good Job, Brain and Big Picture Science. Email advertising@airwavemedia.com to enquire about advertising on the podcast. Follow: Twitter | Facebook | Website Transcript 0:11 Erin: Welcome to part two of our discussion of the poems of Elizabeth Bishop. We are currently about. Oh, I'm okay. I'm proud of us. We're just about halfway through the Moose. That's not bad compared to our usual record. We're not halfway through stanza one. We're going. You know, it's about a bus trip. It's encouraging us to pick up the pace a little bit and get to our next stop. So we were just going to pick up with the woman in stanza 13 climbing into the bus. 0:41 Wes: Before you say that, I just want to make one little observation. 0:44 Erin: Oh, sure. 0:45 Wes: Just that we get right as soon as the light goes out, it's then that we get the barking of a dog and the smell of salt. First it's the smell of salt hay and then it's the barking of a dog. So smell is introduced. And is that the first time sound is really introduced in any. You know, we get the bus starting and all that, but I think that's right. It's very visual up to that point, I think. And then as soon as we lose the light, we get these new sensory modalities. The collie just supervised this dog, gives us a nice bark, and presumably we can't even see him. We just hear him. So I just love that. I just. I love the transition into darkness. It's so. 1:26 Erin: Yeah. 1:26 Wes: I don't know how else to say it. 1:28 Erin: Yeah. 1:28 Wes: And it's then that we. This really is the midpoint of the poem because now we're going to make this transition into the world of the bus, I guess. As the woman climbs in, we have 1:41 Erin: the ship's port lantern, as you said, being an indication that it's now nearly or fully dark outside. 1:47 Wes: She says red light swims through the dark. 1:50 Erin: Yeah. I'm assuming that at this point a bus would have some form of illumination, at least for when it's stopped and the doors open for people getting on and off the bus. Right. It would. It would light up on the inside interior. Yeah. 2:03 Wes: Yeah. 2:03 Erin: Or at least maybe it would stop, certainly if it were stopping at a station or a little, you know, whatever those things are called. Those little. Yeah, there's a word for it. 2:14 Wes: We need something to see the freckles by. 2:16 Erin: Right. We need something. Exactly. But wherever they would be stopping would have some form of street light illumination or something of that order. Anyway. 2:26 Wes: But it's interesting you say this, because I didn't picture a bus station at any point in this. And I just imagine people along the side of the road. 2:34 Erin: Right. But if it were a course, it 2:38 Wes: couldn't be that way. 2:39 Erin: Well, I don't think it's a station. I think it would be a stop with a. You know, like a lean to. You know, what are those things that just. 2:44 Wes: Yeah, sure. 2:45 Erin: That just protect you from the elements. 2:47 Wes: Yeah. Bust down. 2:48 Erin: Right. 2:48 Wes: Yeah. 2:49 Erin: And that would probably have at least a street light. But anyway, then we get the moonlight. Maybe my favorite. Oh, it's so hard to say, but maybe my favorite image in the poem is the hairy, scratchy, splintery moonlight and mist caught in them like lambswool on bushes in a pasture. Just. There's nothing. There's no image greater than that. That's unbelievable. 3:13 Wes: There's kind of a more wildness to this. Right. The image now, the hairiness and scratchiness and splinteriness. It's a bit less Domesticated, I guess, than the previous part of the poem. 3:27 Erin: That's a really good point. I hadn't thought of that. Even a suggestion of danger, like the lamb running. 3:34 Wes: I just thought, this is where the hobbits are entering Fangorn Forest. 3:39 Erin: Yes. Yeah, yeah, the New Brunswick. 3:41 Wes: But you go a little bit more. It's a little wilder and more primal. I think once you. Even if you're on a bus, once you get into the woods, there's something different about it. 3:52 Erin: That's right. 3:53 Wes: But yeah, you're right. The idea that the moonlight could get caught in that. That's a great image. 3:59 Erin: Something giving chase to the lamb would cause it potentially to get a little ensnared in the chase. 4:06 Wes: It's as if Lambswool has, you know, a lamb is brushed up on the bramble or whatever and left its will so that. So the moonlight, instead of making this cosmic journey and landing on articulating the environment, has been subordinated to the environment. Right. It's become. It's been captured by these hairy woods. It's caught on it and, you know, a piece of it has come off from being caught on something that's scratchy and splintery. So that. That. Yeah, this is the great reversal. And that's the place where you can really get some good sleeping. Yes, right. 4:44 Erin: Yes. And where dreamy things can happen. 4:47 Wes: Divagation. Yeah, wanderings. 4:51 Erin: I looked that up. Wandering, straying or digressing from a main course, path or topic. So like a digression as long as 4:59 Wes: the bus stays on track. 5:00 Erin: Yeah, that's right. 5:01 Wes: You do whatever you want with your mind. 5:02 Erin: That's right. And the night. I just looked on Google Maps while I was writing my little notes in the margins. And if you were to take a bus today from Great Village to Boston, it would take like 10 hours. So it definitely is a, yikes, full course of the night on this night bus. So I love what happens in stanza 16, which begins in the creakings and noises, an old conversation not concerning us, but recognizable somewhere back in the bus. So I really love that it's grandparents voices, she says, uninterrupted talking. This is where the I becomes an us. And this is a characteristic of a bishop. I think she's rather reluctant to use an I, capital I in a poem. She's more likely to use a we or an us. And here it's as if they're all part of the same family now in the bus and the adults. It's almost like everybody on the bus who isn't a grandparent is a child and the adults in the back are talking and we are all, oh, that doesn't concern us. Just go to sleep. It's none of your business. Just stop eavesdropping on us. Right, so there's some community that's been formed already by the people who are not the grandparents talking. Do you get that impression? 6:20 Wes: Yeah, it's a bit confusing. So, yeah, let's try to figure it out. Because it. So it begins. A dreamy navigation begins in the night. She doesn't say, I started dreaming or they started dreaming or we started dreaming. Although it seems almost like it's collective. Right. So that the bus is dreaming or everyone on the bus is dreaming together, which kind of lines up with the not concerning us later on, the gentle auditory slow hallucination. So that's a very interesting idea. Right. The dream is usually associated with subjectivity. Right. The cogito and Descartes. Right. The dream tells us that we might have trouble distinguishing reality from what's in our own minds. And we in our own minds are very potentially cut off from reality. But it's a. It's an alienated individual position here. The dream is. Seems to be collective. And perhaps it's collective because it's partly real. Right. Is that the conversation? I thought, okay, there's a conversation going on in the back of the bus and it is old people talking. But as you're lying back, you could sort of. You can't hear exactly what they're saying. And you might have that kind of half dream, Right. Where you're. The dream is kind of lined up with or intertwined with what's going on in reality. So she's hearing in the conversation of the old people, her grandparents voices. Is that the way you took this? Or. Or they, they're hearing the grandparents voices or. Yeah. How do we, how do we interpret this? 7:54 Erin: I interpreted it as, you know, people of the age of grandparents having a real conversation. But the idea that one could be having an auditory. I mean, we are given the word auditory slow hallucination. So the idea that there could be an auditory hallucination or kind of half dream of one's own grandparents having a conversation, or it may be superimposed on a real conversation kind of inaudible going on on the bus. I never noticed this before. The G in grandparents is capitalized. So it does seem to sit to suggest the speaker's particular grandparents rather than. 8:30 Wes: Oh, I was going to. I thought you were going to say archetypal grandparents. 8:34 Erin: Oh, yeah, I suppose it could be yeah, it could be read that way, too. I think all of these things are true, right? 8:40 Wes: Yeah. 8:40 Erin: I mean, the image works because of the, shall we say, universal particularity of this experience. 8:47 Wes: The ordinary way to write the poem would be to. And a much simpler way would be to put this in her point of view and not try to put it into a collective point of view. But that seems to be what she's doing. 8:59 Erin: Yes. The effectiveness, though, I think is the. And it could just be the speaker's perception of it, but the atmospheric quality, because everyone on the bus is going to share an experience shortly, but already they are sharing an experience and a kind of atmosphere that they're all listening to the hum and having that. You know, when you're in the car and you. Maybe when you're a kid and you put your ear up against, like, the. The car door or the window or something, and you hear orchestral music. I don't know if you ever had that. I used to always hear classical music when I would put my head up. 9:38 Wes: Yeah, I don't think I have that. 9:40 Erin: All kinds of. And I always think, like, I should write this down. But you always have, like, a hallucination of an orchestra playing songs. Different songs. Sometimes like fantastical songs. Yeah. You know, my particular experience maybe doesn't quite get at the. Yeah. The sense that this is shared. 9:57 Wes: Well, you're put into a kind of dreamy state, and yet you're getting at the auditory hallucination part. I mean, for me, I think, as a child, and this, I think, is very evocative of childhood. It's something about being half asleep or falling asleep. You're on a journey and there are adults in the car and there's some. Maybe some sense of safety, I think is very relevant to this poem. But being ensconced in the world of adults and not quite alone when you do this thing, which is potentially very lonely, which is go to sleep. And of course, a lot of kids don't want to go to sleep because that loneliness factor. But it's a much different experience if you're traveling. You're all on the way to something together. And of course, you're with people who are awake and, you know, are going 10:45 Erin: to be awake, maybe because the kids are falling asleep. Their. Their voices are lowered and softer. And maybe that also contributes Right. To the. The way in which. That lulls the children in the back simply because they're aware of not wanting to talk too loudly. Certainly that would be the case on a bus like this, where they're Having a conversation where they're talking in. In lower voices and maybe actually inducing that calm and hum for sleep in the people, the other people in the bus who aren't talking. 11:15 Wes: And the question is, what are the adults doing with their talk? Right. It's not going to work if your parents are just fighting. In this case, it's the grandparents. Voices are clearing things up and I guess bringing certain things to resolution, coming to terms with these losses. But a lot of it does sound a bit gossipy and not necessarily like the most comforting. 11:39 Erin: Yes. Yeah. 11:39 Wes: Sort of talk we could imagine. Yeah. 11:41 Erin: Well, you know, in a situation like this where you might be a child in this car, could be that you're coming back from whatever, like a, like a late night and then the adults in the car are working through whatever has just happened over the course of the night. And. Oh no, she was the one who had that long. Yeah. Who had the criminal record because of that thing, remember where they. Oh, yeah, yeah. That was like 20 years ago. So you sort of get that. But for an entire family history going back ages and ages, talking in eternity. Deaths, deaths and sicknesses. The year he remarried, the year something happened. Oh, yeah, what year was that? Right. Something about the journey afterwards or maybe away from home. If these people are also. If their home is Nova Scotia and they're departing it, you know, then there's that backwards looking quality where something about the idea of the journey and moving away from the place is giving the opportunity to then take stock and look back. So there's this sort of like dual action happening in the poem where the further the bus goes, the further back they're kind of looking from deaths and sicknesses to then remarriage and then childbirth. Son lost when the schooner found her. 12:58 Wes: These are all very blue collar tragedies, right? 13:00 Erin: Yes. 13:01 Wes: He was arrested for insider trading. 13:04 Erin: No, but I mean, you know, there's a reverse order to what's happening, you know, so we get. We have death, then sickness, then remarriage, then dying in childbirth. So there's a rewind is what I mean. Yeah. 13:17 Wes: Well, we come back in the end to death. The way it's all summed up. 13:20 Erin: Insider trading. Sorry. 13:23 Wes: Huh? 13:24 Erin: Sorry, Just insider trading. That really is funny. 13:31 Wes: And he had an affair. No. A sharp indrawn breath. Half grown, half acceptance. That means life's like that. We know it. Also death, you know, and then the question, what does also death mean there? Death knows it, we also know death. But it, you know, it made me wonder at various points I wondered. Well, Is this an element here of a journey to the underworld or to the afterlife? Maybe it's a job not claiming that that's strong thematic part of this, but maybe a hint of that type of thing. Because the journey, I mean, and it does seem like journeys are good places for this or like when I travel, it produces in me a very different state of mind. And I do find it very calming in a way, you know, especially actually being on the train or something like that, because you're in between two different locations and you maybe you're not caught up in the expectations or the constricting qualities of any particular location. If I'm at home, I have to do this and that work, or if I'm at a destination, then I'm dealing with relatives or I have to be a tourist or something like that. But there's something liberating about being in between two locations. So it does seem like a place for this type of dreamy hallucination or this reflection or this clearing of things up. It's almost like therapy. Right? That's what all of this sounds like. People are talking through their problems, but where is it that they get to in the end here? The half grown, half acceptance. So it's not fully acceptance. It sums things up with this, maybe a degree of resignation. So yeah, I don't know. What do you make of the stanza? 15:15 Erin: Well, they're traveling west significantly. Right. I do take a lot of this to be a kind of, say, pre figurement of death, even though at the same time the fact that they're in the woods, the fact that not to jump ahead too much, the fact that the moose will come out of the woods and appear notably in the middle of the road, there is a suggestion of middle age or middleness, or midway in the journey of our life, I found myself within a dark forest. So I think it works both ways, or perhaps it's working in several ways simultaneously for the various passengers. So maybe the speaker is experiencing something more akin to the Dante esque middle of the journey on the bus. And something about the bus journey is also, symbolically speaking, a kind of final bus journey for some of the other passengers. And that intersection seems significant, but I don't know how, just in the sense that there's a retrospective quality happening or maybe even a reversion to childhood that goes on for the speaker and the other people in the bus by virtue of the propinquity to these old people at the end of their life's journey. Because there is very little about middleness Here, come to think of it, other than the moose appearing in the middle of the road. Right. It seems that the other people on the bus are like children and the grandparents are the adults. 16:50 Wes: I mean, I think part of what's comforting when we're children is that feeling that adults know the answers and that adults know how to cope with all the dangers and have experience doing that and therefore can protect us. The reality, of course, as we realize as we get older, is that that's not true. So what they may have is more of this acceptance that's sort of highlighted in this stanza, which is potentially a good thing, but maybe a double edged sword because it does seem to be a form of dying. It does seem to be a form of the very thing that we want to be protected from. 17:30 Erin: There's also, though, that. What I used to call my mom, the external hard drive. I used to say back before she. 17:42 Wes: She liked that. 17:44 Erin: I think now it would make her sad because she'll say, you know, very openly that she. Her memory is gone. But it used to be that she knew all the, you know, you could ask her who said that at that one. You know, there's that kind of. I mean, that's a sort of jokey, gossipy scorekeeping thing that she would keep tabs on. But there's also just the idea of long memory being the history keeper, the record keeper, the, you know, and there's sort of settling accounts over the course of this conversation. Oh, right, it was that year. Okay. And then this happened and then, then that happened. And that's important too, I think, for, you know, it situates children in a context. Not just say this idea of death that you're referring to, but also how to situate oneself in a life. 18:34 Wes: Right. 18:34 Erin: There's a. There's a sort of frame that the grandparents or the elder relatives have that whole history up until you enter the narrative and where you fit within that. We mentioned in part one a little bit about Bishop's family history just to kind of prefigure the types of story that she inserts, I think very significantly into the poem, particularly about poor Amos who just wouldn't stop praying in the store and had to be. Had to be put away. Right. Of course she does a gender swap, but yeah, we all have family stories like this, of this kind of unruly behavior or madness of some kind or other or some sort of family drama. 19:19 Wes: Yeah. So it's universal. But the way she captures it is very clever with this talk that we don't quite know whether it's just the conversation of the people, the old people at the back of the bus, or whether it's her dream or whether it's both or somewhere in between. They're interlaced, those two things. And that. That interlacing gets at this aspect of universality. Although I think by the time we get to the stanza where she's fantasizing about the grandparents and the featherbed, this, it start. Seems to become inescapably personal, which is why I think of the. The point of view is getting more and more focused. Right. With. With time. Yeah. And potentially it's still universal, but it seems almost like a personal memory. Right. So talking the way they talked in the old feather bed. Right. The way they. Her. Her grandparents presumably in the old feather bed, peacefully on and on. Dim lamp light in the hall, down in the kitchen, the dog tucked in her shaw. Shawl. Yeah, get another. And get another dog here. 20:28 Erin: I love this. 20:29 Wes: The collie, the barking dog. And. Yeah, so this, this stanza is wonderful. And it gets at exactly this thing that you've been talking about, which is the, like, comfort of being a kid overhearing adults talking. It really, despite this talk of death. Right. A reconciliation with death. This is the point. Seems to be the point of view of a child who finds this very comforting. And. Right. She'll say in the next stanza, now it's all right now even to fall asleep, just as on all those nights, the way in which the adult world and the safety of protective figures can make sleep okay to do. And then suddenly that's interrupted. 21:07 Erin: But I love too. I mean, yes, it's so particular, but it also just in this one stanza does so many things in miniature that the poem is doing all along, this telescoping in again to a scene which. Which even as a child, if it were her childhood in particular that she's referencing, she couldn't possibly know or see. She wouldn't be able to see the grandparents in their featherbed. She would have to be picturing them in the featherbed and she wouldn't be able to see the dog in the hall. And also I wonder if this. If the stanza in its operation is kind of doing. I mean, this is just occurring to me now, but maybe it's doing that kind of hallucinatory work that has prior been described where we actually get a remix of, you know, this is the third dog in the poem. But it's also the elements in the stanza are a kind of recapitulation of the light, the red light swimming, the port Lantern becomes the lamp light in the hall. We get the dog barking now becomes the dog curled up in the shawl. And then maybe even because we also get kitchen, maybe the shawl is even a kind of transposition of the table, tablecloth shook out. Right. So there's something actually in the stanza which has that hallucinatory quality that she's describing where these three elements swim in the imagination and then become the lamplight and the dog and the shawl in this half asleep kind of dream space. Maybe that's pushing things too far, but it does seem to be. It's the dreamiest stanza perhaps in the whole poem. Maybe the following one. Now it's all right now even to fall asleep. But this gets interrupted that next stanza. So this one, I think is the real depth of the dreamy or borderline dreamy or hallucinatory moment. 23:00 Wes: Yeah, this is great because it really underlines the way deviation creates the capacity for stasis or for comfort. So the deviation of a bus trip or of the dreaming. Right. Which is movement, which is dynamic and has that momentum, forward momentum that we were talking about, sort of underwrites or grounds this ability to. For stasis, for stopping, for going to sleep, for feeling comforted as a child and safe, I think. And I keep repeating that word because of the. What's going to happen. The use of the word that's going to happen in this poem later. But yeah, I'm not sure if you were saying that explicitly, but that's what came to mind my mind as you were talking. This. The way in which this journey, devigation, motion can ground something that's going to be more static or stationary, which is what we're going to get in the moose. Because it interrupts the. It explicitly interrupts the motion of the bus and the external line of the poem in a way that parallels the comfort that's produced by the dreaming. 24:08 Erin: Yeah. In stanza 22 is where we have that break that you're describing. The moose finally appears. Well, the moose doesn't appear until stanza 23 finally appears. 24:21 Wes: We've been waiting for you. 24:22 Erin: We've been waiting for you. The title has promised that you would come and then here you are. It is foretold of your coming. 24:29 Wes: Comes through the curtains, takes his bow. Right. 24:32 Erin: We get nights, just as on all those nights. And then the moose's appearance, the lights turn on. And that rhyme you get, I mean, it's a very basic, simple rhyme. Right. But there's that sort of sudden jolt which is then also visualized where in the middle of night we have this appearance, this bright because of the headlights on it. Appearance of the moose. And it looms and sniffs at the bus's hot hood, which I'm assuming means that it thinks that the bus might be a boy moose. 25:06 Wes: No. Well, it's a very hot bus, I'll say that. 25:10 Erin: Ow. Ow. 25:14 Wes: That enamel. And it's dented and, you know, depends on if you like bad buses. No, just kidding. 25:21 Erin: Dented from its last encounter with a girl bus. 25:25 Wes: Yeah. It's funny because I wrote in my notes, but was just reading it stanza by stanza. And the previous stanza I'd said, okay to sleep, even with death looming. Looming for all of us, you know, all day one. You know, one day we all die. Blooming in that sense. And then suddenly the moose is looming, standing there, looming. And I thought, whoa, that's really interesting 25:45 Erin: that I. Oh, yes, chose. 25:48 Wes: Chose that word before I even got to the next stanza. Not to give some, you know, obvious rote sort of identification of the moose with death or the experience of the moose as having something to do with that. But obviously they're coming into contact here with something quite primal and important. It's not just, oh, look, there's a nice moose, but is he sniffing or she's sniffing the buses hot hood because she thinks it might be another moon. That hadn't actually occurred to me. 26:21 Erin: I must have been infected with that reading at some point that this was a frisky moose, that it otherwise doesn't seem frisky at all. It seems pretty. Like a pretty staid, respectable moose. 26:34 Wes: But frisky and ditzy. 26:39 Erin: That's right. Hello. 26:41 Wes: What? 26:41 Erin: Oh, look, I seem to be in the middle of the road. Pardon me. 26:46 Wes: So, towering, antlerous, high as a church, homely as a house. We're safe as houses, a man's voice assures us. Perfectly harmless. Which you presume, right, that the. The man making that assurance is. Precedes the idea of it being homely as a house and safe as houses. Even though. So. So she interestingly puts the associations before her associative responses before the actual stimulus. Right. I don't think she's the one who is thinking about how they must be safe and. And he's saying something. I mean, as far as I know. I don't know back then. But you were warned about bison and mooses, right? Or is it mooses or moose? I think we're warned because they don't. They. They seem harmless, but they're not. And so I was quite surprised by this stanza. And I thought this idea, okay, safe as houses. Well, yeah, houses ought to be safe, but they're not always safe. The bus, the moving container of the bus turns out to be, in a way safer and more conducive to reverie and dreaming and all of that. 27:59 Erin: No matter how you slice it, whether you see the moose as harmless, truly, or not so harmless, this has got to be just a little bit of a wink, right? A man's voice assures us. 28:09 Wes: I mean, I think we're definitely meant to be skeptical. 28:12 Erin: Yeah. 28:13 Wes: This perfectly harmless line, it's not there for us to nod our heads in agreement. 28:20 Erin: Oh, yeah, he's right, right, right. I think it's more like, oh, here's another mansplainer. 28:26 Wes: He's moose splaining. 28:28 Erin: Mooseplaining this woman moose to moose splaining. Just out for a good time, having her existence commented upon by another man's voice. Probably a podcaster. One of those male podcasters has a manosphere podcast. 28:45 Wes: Girl mooses are. 28:49 Erin: Then we get these childish again. The passengers are like children and having this childlike response to the appearance of the moose, including. It's awful, plain sad. So much judgment of women's bodies. 29:04 Wes: I mean, they're not good looking creatures. Let's just. They're, you know, put that on the table. Come on. They are in an ugly sort of way. 29:11 Erin: Yeah. I mean, okay, I guess they don't follow, you know, classical proportions. They don't represent the golden mean. 29:21 Wes: They're not into beauty society societal beauty standards. All right. 29:28 Erin: They are like cartoon characters. 29:29 Wes: They're miss Positive is what they are. 29:35 Erin: Well, what I love though, about the description, you know, we get several, I suppose. Yeah. Contradictory descriptions of the moose in a way, because we get homely as a house or safe as houses. We get awful plane. But then she looks the bus over grand otherworldly, so she has some gravitas. She's like a great character actress who. Who may not be beautiful in that leading lady way, but she's Kathy Bates. Yes. Yeah, well, that's maybe a bit insulting to Kathy Bates, who I do think is a very attractive woman, but. 30:19 Wes: Sorry, Kathy. 30:20 Erin: I know, I love her. 30:21 Wes: Come on the show sometime, please. 30:24 Erin: Oh my gosh, I would die. I love Kathy Bates anyway. And then we get curious creatures. Well, first we get the idea that it inspires joy and then we get curious creatures. So there's a. The joy is then immediately undercut by a kind of ambivalence. Right. So there's just all of these descriptions of the moose combine to create a kind of ambivalent portrait, such as it is, of the animal. 30:47 Wes: Are we going to be able to answer this question? Why? Why do they feel the sweet sensation of joy? I mean, I think I would probably feel it. 30:57 Erin: Why? Why do we all feel it? I mean, they have. Well, they've successfully done what I couldn't see a moose in real life. So they're like one up on Erin. Can't wait to go back and tell her we saw moose. Yeah, I've seen certain things. I can't think of a specific example of this, but I've had plenty of instances. Whether it is a wild animal or, I don't know, like a sunset or a really spectacular natural event of some kind or other. You do get that feeling of joy, kind of excitement. 31:28 Wes: Yeah. Unfortunately, most of my encounters with large animals are at zoos. I did see a bear once. I was going to the bathroom. My mom had a house in Front Royal, Virginia, at the beginning of the Appalachian Mountains. And it was up high on a. We called it a mountain, but it was, I guess, more of a hill. But so it was out, you know, it was kind of. There was a bear on the mountain, let's just put it that way. And, yeah, I was going to the bathroom one day and looking out the window. There's a window right. You know, above the toilet. And suddenly there's bear's face looking at me. Wow. What the. So, but that, you know, and. And that was majestic. No, just kidding. That it was. I. It was surprising. 32:13 Erin: Yeah. 32:14 Wes: And there's an element of fear that involved. Even if you're, you know, even if, you know, black bears are harmless and there's a wall between you. Some. Something scary about it. I didn't have time to feel like it's majestic. Yeah. You know, like you have had these experiences in. In nature, but I can't think of a encounter like this. But it. I seem sure that if I had an encounter like this, I would feel exactly the same way. So. Yeah. What is otherworldly about it? What is majestic about it? It's a big, dumb beast. And I say that with love, without any criticism in the sense that. Right. It's an encounter with something primal. And I think we have to take into account the size of the animal as well. I mean, it is interesting to run into a fox or something like that, but it's also a matter of scale here. But. Yeah. What is otherworldly about it? I mean, I think the most. The most obvious part of this is that you know, we have lost something in our humanity and becoming language using creatures and becoming self conscious creatures. And sometimes when we're confronted with an animal like this, we're confronted with that loss. We're not as connected to the environment because of the intermediation of something like language, which poetry of course tries to overcome. It tries to put language into a disintermediating. Sorry to use these business terms. I don't know why this is happening. Into a disintermediation. 33:46 Erin: Actualize. Yeah, yeah. 33:49 Wes: When it. Yeah, right. Synergize it's agenda. Often where language might put distance between us and the world. Poetry, I think, can undo that distance. Like I was saying, with the very vivid imagery, I can undo that distance with figurative language. And maybe that distance is also undone to some extent by the dreaming or the half dreaming hallucinatory state that she was in. And the comfort of that, the return to childhood, which is also a simpler time. I don't know. I'm thinking out loud here. But yeah, I wanted to try to get more at this, you know, the otherworldly status of the moose and the joy that comes from encountering it. 34:34 Erin: I was thinking to myself, is the moose's gaze really clearly encapsulated? And then I thought, yes, she regards us amicably. And then I was like, no, no, that's the passenger who gets on the bus. 34:44 Wes: Right. Does the moose have freckles? Yeah, that'd be an interesting twist, right? 34:50 Erin: But yeah, but there is one. 34:51 Wes: Turned her into a moose. 34:53 Erin: Well, I would think that this would be a more garden variety animal encounter and maybe even a more, to use a word, I don't like, problematic poem in terms of its relationship with the animal. If it were to focus on the gaze of the animal. Because I think that is the thing which is often at the core of these interactions with animals in which we project or hope to have a kind of meaningful encounter. You want to meet the gaze of the animal and in so doing understand it. Right. And of course you don't realize that you're just projecting onto it a kind of maybe mutual regard. She regards us amicably. That you are seeing it and it is seeing you. And there's an acknowledgement and there's this, you know, spiritual encounter that you have with this animal. And all of that, of course, is often quite silly. It's often quite reductive and fanciful and unrealistic. But I am thinking of an encounter that springs to mind is in Utah. I hiked the same trail almost every day. And I Would often hike it late in order to escape the full heat of the desert sun. Which is a little dangerous, right? Because sometimes the sun would be setting and then all kinds of things come out. And one time I was trying to get back to my car before it got completely dark. And what I thought was a wolf, but what must have been a coyote. And the coyotes in Utah are huge. They look like wolves and completely white. Came out from over a hill, crossed my path, turned, looked at me in the eyes for a very long time, turned and went over on the other side of the hill. I mean, curiously, then, of course, I got to the car and I actually found out that a beloved family member, an elderly family member of mine, had passed away. And I said, I think I just saw her. You know, I had this feeling of, like. I don't know, the sense of this connection, inherent connection between these two. This woman who was dear to me and this encounter. But, of course, that's all silliness. And the idea that I was having a sort of interaction through the gate. Some sort of reciprocal. Right. Interaction with this animal was also entirely just my own projecting onto the animal. However, I will say that that's an instance in which I felt fear. But then there was also this, like, joy at the encounter, I think fear because it was dark. Because I wasn't actually sure if this was a wolf because it blocked my path. It was far enough away that I didn't feel as threatened as I might have. But it was definitely a mixed perception. 37:28 Wes: You didn't shoot it and then hang it around your neck. No, because I was thinking. I just suddenly thought of the albatross poem. 37:37 Erin: Rime of the Ancient Mariner. 37:38 Wes: Rime of the Ancient Mariner. And that sort of relationship to the natural world where. I mean, I forget what we said about it, but maybe I said something about envy and wanting to kill the albatross for. Because of its freedom or something like that. I don't. I don't know. But I think it's important because, yeah, this is part of something about the encounter with the natural world. Whether it's a big moose or something else. Yes. Is otherworldly. Strangely enough, it's otherworldly to us, even though it's where we come from. It's uncanny, maybe. And Freud actually, in the German, I think uncanny is sort of like unhomelike is what the German sounds like. And Freud made a lot out of this. I think it's home, but it's a home from which we've become alienated. We're animals, we're something more than animals. And so that primal encounter brings us back to that foundation, that natural foundation in us, but we can't fully come to terms with it. And I think the other aspect of this, I think the death. Right. So there is a link to death. Just. And I was thinking about that when you described thinking of it as seeing. As seeing your departed loved one. Because if we could regress to that animal state, it would be a kind of death. I think that the association with the movement to the pre. Linguistic, natural foundation is something like the movement towards dying, but there's something comforting. 39:07 Erin: Yes. 39:07 Wes: Right. And we encounter that when we encounter the gaze. To have a. Have a gaze returned by an animal like that usually like, like our internal. Our entire psychological structure, what makes us self. Self conscious is the internalization of a human gaze. Right. To the extent that we. We get an animal gaze, I think we are returned to that more primal part of ourselves. And it does seem to me to have something to do with being reconciled to mortality. Right. Which is part of what the function of that dialogue between the elderly people is doing. 39:44 Erin: You're leading me into the one, say, reading of the moose that I wanted to get to. And I just want to say that I think the great thing about Bishop and about this poem and all her poems is that the moose is a moose. It's not a symbol. I hesitate to offer any kind of 40:03 Wes: direct reading, but that's her job on this podcast, though. 40:05 Erin: I know, I know. It's. Yeah. In the letters with Robert Lowell when he's writing to her about her poem at the fish houses, he says, alas, all my fish just become symbols. 40:16 Wes: Ah, very good. 40:17 Erin: I hesitate to reduce. I think what you've just said makes me think that it's the maternal, the mother. 40:25 Wes: Which also brings us back to the house. 40:28 Erin: Yes, the house. Yeah. It's something that comes like the clapboard churches, like clamshells seem to arise out of the ground, if you will, or are directly compared to these native creatures. The houses are then in turn used as comparisons for the moose, the maternal. The idea that this is something that returns us to nature, that this is the encounter that we would have presumably upon death. It's the loved one that is somehow comforting, maternal, and is a female moose. It's moose mom. I don't know. I don't know. Something going on there. 41:04 Wes: Moose mom. 41:05 Erin: Natural and strange at the same time, not us. And I guess that's why I. That's why I mentioned that the story of my grandfather at the beginning, because I don't know why I wanted so badly to see a moose right after my grandfather's death. But there was something, like, logical about it to me. And I was familiar with this poem, but I very much did not have. You know, it was not something that was the forefront of my mind at all. But I think there is this inherent connection, and it's silly. You know, I kind of can't believe I'm saying this, but I do. I do think there is this kind of connection between this desire that I felt to see this animal. Like the particular kind of primordial itch that the moose in particular seems to be scratching for me in that moment. For Bishop, in this poem, something that is at once safe and comforting and from another world, natural in that kind of elemental way. 42:00 Wes: Yeah. 42:01 Erin: That all kind of coalesce in that image. 42:04 Wes: Very good. 42:05 Erin: Okay. I think that's it, Wes. All we're left with is the dim smell of moose and an acrid smell of gasoline. 42:12 Wes: Oh, you know, we should have talked about that. Maybe we can start with that on our next Bishop recording. We'll. We'll begin with the smells, the smells and the significance of that image at the end. 42:25 Erin: Nice. 42:25 Wes: That smellage at the end. 42:26 Erin: Smellage. All right. Thank you. 42:29 Wes: Thank you.