The Overthinkers

With the demise of the cookie monster and the supreme reign of a few internet giants, a lot of brands placed their bets on building first party data. Is that really the way of the future, and can brands sustainably grow without a strong 1st party data strategy anymore?

“You're Dead In 18 Months Or Less” - Scott Galloway's ominous predictions for CMOs last week brought about a slight disturbance in the force. In this episode, we discuss the argument made against CMOs as we know them, as well as arguments for their possible redemption.

As global consciousness of the world's climate challenges rises, the role of advertising is being increasingly scrutinized. With large fossil fuel companies still using our services to project a greener image, the reality is that decades of deception have made them questionable clients to support. In an effort to stop the support provided by advertising to the industry, Clean Creatives has been ramping up efforts to pledge our industry to move away from those contracts. Joe Cole tells answers our tough questions and shares how the initiatives has succeeded from idea to a massive movement that is now permeating the industry.

Social Media platforms are often put on the map by (young) generations, but ageing with them seems to prove a difficult exercise. Does that generational gap make it harder, and what might allow them more trans-generational success?

Strategic planning inevitably requires the ability to rationalize information, but does great strategy require the ability to think creatively about it?

If you had to launch an agency from scratch today, how would you do it? What strategy or approach would you use? How would you stand out from competitors? Would you try to stay small and niche, or try to create the next WPP? This week's question is courtesy of listener Ian Barnard.

On the heels of Twitter's catastrophic rebranding, we are joined by Co:Collective's Snr Strategy Director, Jessica Lehmann Ash, to discuss not only what went wrong there, but how and when to potentially get it right. Rebranding (or even renaming) should never be taken lightly, often costing valuable equity to companies, but as you'll hear on this episode, it doesn't mean there aren't valuable moments to go through the exercise.

Brand, performance, social, programmatic, CRM, influencer, sponsoring, media, creative... There is a myriad of specialties in the world of advertising, and marketers are increasingly expected to be able to navigate any of them. Is it possible for them to be good at both the long and the short of it?

Threads has taken the world of social media by storm last week, growing in ways we'd never seen before. To discuss the platform's launch, its impact on marketers (and on Meta's product teams!), we're joined by Grace Freeman, Strategy Director and social media expert at Barbarian. The chance to share our hopes and fears for a platform that is breaking all sorts of records.

Barbie has been taking the film industry by storm - and the marketing community has noticed! This week we're joined by Moshe Isaacian, Brand Strategist, to talk about what's great about this campaign, and how it may rekindle a flame that has been somewhat lost in entertainment marketing.

A couple of years ago, Freakonomics discussed research that show zero to negative correlation between advertising and market effects. Apparently, marketers have been wasting all this money for nothing. During this episode, Rachel and Shann discuss the merits of the findings, and whether it approached the question in a way that does (or does not) capture the value of advertising for brands.

Between the loud voices of our industry and the stress of being judged for what you say, finding your voice on public forums can be intimidating for younger marketers. We're joined by John Lyons, Business Director at Gasp! to discuss how new voices can emerge, whether it be on their own or the support of more seasoned marketers.

We often talk about strategy and creative, yet client services are often the ones running the show and taking the top leadership position. To discuss what it takes to be an account leader, and whether it's right for them to take those business leadership roles, we are joined by Marina Biglione, Managing Director at Ogilvy NY.

As talent ebbs and flows in incestuous fashion between agencies that are increasingly large in size and geographic footprint, establishing an agency culture seems like a rare oddity. How are agency cultures established, and how can they be built in this day and age?

The debate over acquisition vs loyalty has rocked the marketing industry over the past 10 years. While loyalty is everywhere, how it is managed has raised a lot of question. But as we see the rise of digital ecosystems, are the rules changing?

For a while, subscription models were all the rage. Now, ad-supported is making a comeback. Is one better than the other, and what considerations should businesses take before going for one or the other (or, both)?

Generative AI is this year's buzzword. But unlike those who preceded it, the applications are wide and many, capturing a lot of people's imagination. This week, we discuss how the technology might change the way we work and do business in the world of advertising.

Advertising is increasingly a young person's game. Are the hardships of parenting one of the reasons why? And could advertising agencies approach this differently? Rachel and Shann share their thoughts as two new parents facing the reality of mother and fatherhood.

Bud Light experienced pretty severe backlash after putting the face of influencer Dylan Mulvaney on its cans (and on TikTok). As the brand tried to explore its new identity away from what it called "fratty humor", did they make a strategic mistake or were they just not prepared enough for what happened afterwards?

Snake oil salesmen, grifters, poseurs... There doesn't seem to be a shortage of people abusing our aspiration for what's shiny and new and our disdain for what's established ("everything has changed! Listen to my miracle solution!"). Is that really an issue in marketing, and are we, as a profession, more prone to it?

Twitter Blue has not been the success Elon Musk needed to defend the value of the social media giant - at least not yet. What has been plaguing it, and does it have a path forward?

We know how important business transformation is in consulting circles - it's on everyone's lips and every 10K filling. Considering how much change happens around us, it seems it would be a natural state of being, and yet, most times it's just a failure. Why is it so hard to transform when change is the norm? Note: apologies for Shann's audio track, it seems something went a little wrong during the recording!

Every now and then, we see agencies having years of success with a client. And yet, inevitably, one day the client calls a competitive pitch. Is that a fair practice? And even if it is, is it a situation where the client has more to lose than to gain?

Whether it's working on a category you don't consume nor like, or doing tasks that aren't your cup of tea, is it still possible to be good at what you do? And is it even advisable?

If ChatGPT can write better than a copywriter, are people going to lose their jobs? Or is AI going to be the new standard for mediocrity, bringing a golden age where we strive for more? This week we wonder how much AI will impact our jobs, in the short and long term.

Attention has (finally?) become a key topic in advertising over the last few years, inserting itself in the media debates around viewability. But before we start trading it, what exactly is attention, and is it really necessary for advertising to work? We're joined by Pranav Yadav, CEO of Neuro-Insights, who shares his perspective from the vantage point of neuro science and what happens in the brain.

Authenticity seems to be on every CMO's lips. Apparently the new kids on the consumer block are obsessed with it. But is it really possible for a brand to be authentic? And is it even part of the contemporary brand's must haves? Let us overthink this!

We like to think our work is pretty harmless, but what if marketing was only a form of propaganda, not the other way around? Does that make us more likely to do bad things? Is it harder to do right? Classic overthinking episode this week!

Strategists are often introverts, and meetings can be harder to navigate - especially those large sessions with countless stakeholders. Are there ways to better stand out and say the right thing, at the right time?

Almost 3 years into the pandemic, we've had plenty of opportunity to shift our work to a remote approach. Clearly strategic planning has not ended, but does remote work make it harder, or less effective? Does it reduce the role of the planner in the process, or does it reinforce it?

Of all practices in the boardroom, marketing tends to be one of the most opinionated about other people's work. With constant commentary on what is or isn't good marketing, it's not uncommon for passionate opinions to turn into aggressive (sometimes even abusive) takes. Is that specific to marketing? And what's driving it? People being assholes or natural dynamic of a very public output? This week, as Rachel takes on her new mommy duties, we're delighted to welcome Vanessa Toro as co-host of the podcast!

Joined by Farrah Bostic and Adam Pierno, co-hosts of In The Demo, a podcast that looks at how cohorts of people are best researched, understood and addressed, we discussed the failures of the demographic segmentation and how to build marketing plans for more meaningful audience groups.

The tech industry, which has come to dominate most of ad spends, has been facing some headwinds lately. Does that mean the tech Goliaths' struggle is good news for all the advertising Davids? Or could they take them in their swirl?

Some organisations have clear marketing guidelines and principles, others just go with the flow. Which ones are more likely to have an edge?

While still limited to its ice cream division, the decision to take a breather from purpose in favor of product superiority signals that cracks are showing in the purpose marketing chapel. Does it mean the edifice is coming down? Or simply that Unilever and co went a little too far?

Are all strategy just replicas of existing ones? Is it even a necessary objective of strategy to be original in and of itself? And if not, does that mean the job of strategy could be easily automated?

With layoffs sending shockwaves in the tech sector, what does that signal for the marketing industry? Are we likely to see problems, or could this be a welcome reprieve after years of those companies draining the talent pool?

Twitter and Facebook experiencing headwinds, calls to rein in their effect on mental health, declines in ad spend... It's a rough patch for social media platforms. But does that mean we're witnessing its downfall, as someone have claimed? Or is it more of a correction?

A lot of people make the switch from one side to the other. In this episode, Rachel and Shann share their experience working across both sides of the pond - and touch on the blending of in-house agencies.

Free speech or advertising, Elon's gonna have to choose. Considering he first started with an open letter to advertisers, he seems to care, but is he the right person to fix it?

Long working hours are often the norm in ad agencies - not that they're unique in that regard, but one thing people often describe after leaving them is a greater ease to balance things out. Can agencies get better at this - and should they?

It's very fanciful for agencies to introduce themselves to the world with a flashy "planning framework" of their own concoction. But as we basically keep relabelling the same principles over and over, is there really much worth in trying to create their own?

With the recent passing of legendary ad-man and founder Dan Wieden, Rachel and Shann ask themselves what it would take for a contemporary ad-person to leave a mark as big as the likes of Widen and Kennedy did - and whether there even is someone with that profile right now. A chance to discuss how those kinds of legacies are created, and if they're even that necessary in the first place.

Big milestones today: The Overthinkers turns 3 with this 150th episode, and marks its 200,000 listens to date. To celebrate, we bring the man that we pretty much owe this podcast to, Mark Pollard. Not only did he introduce us, he also inspired us to make our own thing. And this will be the topic this week - at some point all of us ask ourselves what life is like beyond the work we do in ad agencies. During this hour, we went pretty deep and personal about our fears, our joys, our stresses, and our achievements as the three of us took forks in our careers. This obviously comes from three strategists, but probably reflects a wider sentiment across other specialties. Thanks again for listening for all those years, and if you're new, welcome!

Understanding culture - whether to fit in or to define it - is a fairly common exercise in strategic planning. What does that cover? What are the pitfalls? And is it really an obligation to succeed?

Business leaders often struggle to embrace complexity, and certainly have a fear of uncertainty. In this episode, Steve McCrone tells us more about how embracing those could be turned into strategic advantage.

Is paid advertising the mark of unremarkable brands? Or is it an essential step to grow into a big brand?

Words and opinion play an important part in strategy, and it's not uncommon to see strategists writing, recording or presenting their thinking. Many famed strategists are regular contributors, and would qualify as thought leaders. But does that mean thought leadership is part of the job description?

Some accounts are infamous for making it hard to attract or retain talent. In many instances, broken relationships between those and their agencies can lead to job dissatisfaction, burn out etc. Does this mean clients have a responsibility to play in talent retention - and thus should they be held accountable for it?

We've all heard the statement: "we launched without spending on marketing!". And yet you have plenty of marketing activities - just no paid advertising. Marketers equating marketing with advertising media spend is unnerving. But where does it come from, and how can we put an end to this?

We're getting close to raise cycles, so this week we're discussing our recommendations to better get the promotion you think you deserve!