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Renegade Thinkers Unite: #2 Podcast for CMOs & B2B Marketers
Growth targets keep climbing while cost lines tighten, and planning season starts to feel very personal for CMOs. AI threads through every conversation, zero-based thinking pulls against last year's baseline, and the goalposts never seem to hold still. So the job becomes building a budget you can walk into the room with, own, and defend with conviction. To get there, Drew brings together Andrew Cox (Forrester), Lisa Cole (2X), and Alan Gonsenhauser (Demand Revenue). The conversation centers on tying spend to strategy, translating marketing into CFO-ready terms, and giving AI a role in the plan that the numbers can support. In this episode: Andrew shares Forrester's view on moving past "last year plus X," building budgets around corporate objectives and campaigns, and forcing prioritization. Lisa applies a zero-based mindset to business priorities, uses a 70-20-10 program mix for core, flex, and test, and frames marketing as an ATM of Audience, Trust, and Monetization. Alan outlines the signals of strong and weak budgets, tying the majority of spend to growth campaigns and long-term value plans, and maintaining a year-round working relationship with the CFO. Plus: Keeping tech spend in check, including guidelines for MarTech mix and contract flexibility Positioning brand and PR in financial terms like pipeline influence, win rates, and pricing power Responding to AI efficiency pressure by fixing workflows first and framing value in utilization, speed, and scalability Why the budget should be the numerical expression of strategy, not a defense of legacy spend If you want to walk into your next budget review with a clear story, solid numbers, and conviction, this conversation will help you get there. For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcasts/ To learn more about CMO Huddles, visit https://cmohuddles.com/
Why B2B Lead Qualification Fails and How to Fix It Traffic is cheap, but qualified B2B sales conversions are not. Too many CMOs in the B2B space are watching brilliant creative go to waste at the top of the marketing funnel because what's passing through as a “qualified lead” often isn't really qualified. How can B2B marketers identify where the real lead qualification bottleneck is? Why is rethinking how MQLs are defined, scored, and routed one the most strategic fixes a CMO can make to improve pipeline performance? That's why we're talking to Gabe Lullo (CEO, Alleyoop), who shared some insights around why B2B lead qualification fails and how to fix it at the top of the funnel. During our discussion, Gabe challenged the common misconception that poor lead quality is the issue when sales aren't closing. Instead, he emphasized the importance of a clearly-defined Ideal Customer Profile (ICP), a strong product-market fit, and a well-mapped B2B sales journey. Gabe also stressed the need for A/B testing, identifying and resolving funnel bottlenecks, and using data-driven decision-making to improve lead conversion rates. He underscored the value of nurturing leads and cautioned B2B marketers against dismissing traditional marketing channels without rigorous testing. https://youtu.be/KXVmywNsfP0 Topics discussed in episode: [02:36] Why top-of-funnel lead qualification breaks down in B2B. [16:37] How to define and operationalize your Ideal Customer Profile (ICP). [12:17] When MQLs hurt more than they help, and how to fix them. [26:14] How A/B testing and data-driven decisions improve lead conversion. [27:53] Why lead nurturing is critical to long sales cycles. [34:05] When to test (not abandon) traditional B2B marketing channels. Companies and links mentioned: Gabe Lullo on LinkedIn Alleyoop ZoomInfo Salesloft Adobe Transcript SPEAKERS Gabe Lullo, Christian Klepp Gabe Lullo 00:00 So we’re doing top of funnel activities, and then we’re sending leads over. The sales team takes them, and then what we find, a lot, we hear this all the time, is leads aren’t closing. And what’s interesting is that it was never a lead problem. It was more of a, you know, seller problem. I don’t mean to put blame on it, but companies come to us saying, hey, my sellers are saying we don’t have enough leads, we don’t have better leads, we don’t have good leads, and they’re the ones complaining about the lead. So they come to us to fix the lead problem. We fix the lead problem, but it doesn’t fix the revenue problem. It’s still not closing. So what is it? Christian Klepp 00:30 Traffic is cheap, but conversion is not too many CMOs (Chief Marketing Officer) are watching brilliant, creative go to waste at the top of the funnel, because what’s passing through as qualified just isn’t so how can you identify where the real bottleneck is, and why is rethinking how MQLs (Marketing Qualified Leads) are defined and scored the single most strategic fix? A CMO can make welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Gabe Lullo, who will be answering these questions. He’s the CEO of Alleyoop, a sales development agency working with industry giants such as ZoomInfo, Salesloft and Adobe. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is, and off we go. Mr. Gabe Lullo, welcome to the show, sir. Gabe Lullo 01:17 Christian. Thank you so much. First off, I’m a huge fan of yours, so is my team, and we just appreciate all that you do for the industry. And I’m so excited to be here. Thanks for the invite. Christian Klepp 01:28 Wow, wow. Thank you. Thank you so much. Right off the gate with the praise, thank you, sir. Gabe Lullo 01:33 Well, you deserve it, man, you’re the best. What do you do. I love it. I love your show, and I love being a part of that. Christian Klepp 01:38 I appreciate that. I appreciate that. You know, we really had an awesome, like, pre-interview conversation. I’m gonna say, like, you know, talking about coming up to Toronto and Buffalo and what have you. And I’m really looking forward to this conversation, Gabe, because, man, you know, what? As much as some Marketers probably don’t want to hear this. It’s an, I think this is an absolutely necessary conversation to have. Right this topic that we’re going to talk about, and I will not keep the audience in suspense for too long. I’m just going to jump into the first question, if you don’t mind. Gabe Lullo 02:09 Yeah, no problem. Let’s get right into it. Christian Klepp 02:11 All right, so Gabe, you’re on a mission to provide the ultimate assist to your clients by setting them up for success. So for this conversation, let’s zero in on the following topic of how B2B Marketers can fix qualification at the top. So here comes the first question in our previous conversation. You talked about many marketing funnels being a leaky bucket. Can you please explain what you meant by that? Gabe Lullo 02:36 Yeah, I think companies right now are going to market in a very hodgepodge type of way, you know, ICP (Ideal Customer Profile), you know, we throw that terminal around a lot, and, you know, people think they know what it is, or feel like they have it drilled down, or feel like it’s completely locked, locked in. And then clients invite us in, and we realize it’s not the case, and it’s not just what the ideal client profile is, which, of course, is quintessential to going to market, and it’s really the first step to qualification, isn’t it, right? But on the other side of it, it is, you know, is there a product market fit? Is there a pricing that needs to be aligned? What’s the competitive landscape look like? So when we’re having live conversations, our sellers are making, you know, 11 million cold calls a year. That’s front of the line conversations, right? And we can hear, understand, and truly, you know, debrief with what each call is sounding like, so we can then narrow in what those qualifications should be. You know, a lot of you know, let’s say VPs of sales come into the sales development side of the house or the marketing side of the house, and they apply sales training methodologies to top of funnel qualifications, and it really gets broken as well. So there’s a lot to unpack, but I’ll give you an example. You know, band for instance, but you know budget authority needed timing. Like, is that really the right qualification at the top of the funnel, or does that really, you know, evolve the seller and the demo and the discovery call at that moment in time. So really understanding who’s in charge of that top of funnel and what their experience is also as a part of it, in my opinion. Christian Klepp 04:13 Absolutely, absolutely and you’re absolutely right. There’s so much to unpack here, but I have to ask just from your experience, and I know you have a lot, it seems like it’s just, there’s so many moving parts in this ecosystem, and a lot of like, well, what causes the leaky funnel? I’m gonna say is a lot of the things that you just mentioned, right? It’s a lack of understanding of who the actual ICP is. It’s probably also, especially the bigger the the organization gets sorry to everyone out there, but the lack of ownership and accountability, the lack of an actual strategy, like, where’s this all gonna go? Right? Gabe Lullo 04:54 Oh, it’s interesting. Yeah, I find this to be our except we so we’re doing top of the funnel activities, and we’re sending leads over, the sales team takes them, and then what we find, a lot, we hear this all the time, is leads aren’t closing. And what’s interesting is that it was never a lead problem. It was more of a seller problem. Now I don’t mean to put blame on it, but companies come to us saying, hey, my sellers are saying we don’t have enough leads, we don’t have better leads, we don’t have good leads, and they’re the ones complaining about the lead so they come to us to fix the lead problem. We fix the lead problem, but it doesn’t fix the revenue problem. It’s still not closing. So what is it? It’s the entire channel, right? It’s the entire sales journey, and we have to make sure that all of those things are working like an engine, right? All the cylinders are working at the same time in the same motion, to truly know what the problem may be. So that that’s really exposed a lot when we step in and start doing top of funnel activities, Christian Klepp 05:55 Absolutely, absolutely. And that segues into the next question, which I feel you’ve already answered to a certain extent. But where do you feel the true bottleneck lies, and that may be dependent on the company, right? Because each company maybe has a different set of challenges. And most importantly, okay, where does the bottleneck lie? And how do how can B2B Marketing teams help address the bottleneck and not be part of the bottleneck? Gabe Lullo 06:21 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there’s an eight step approach to sales. That’s what we call your sales journey, right? You have, obviously, you know, list building, and then we have, of course, outreach, we have qualification, we have discovery call, we have demo, we have, you know, closing or negotiating. We have client success. I mean, that’s the basic funnel, if you will. So is our, I should say, all of those things operating at the best of its ability. And what is broken, and it’s, it’s the old, you know, Henry Ford approach the assembly line. You know, there’s an assembly line and building a car, and there’s an assembly line in sales. And you have to know those steps, firstly, two, you have to know if those steps are working correctly, and figure out where that bottleneck is, and then, you know, take those blockers away so that those cars are flowing in and the production line doesn’t stop and we’re, you know, executing on the results that we need to serve our clients. Christian Klepp 07:16 100% agree. But now I’m gonna throw in another like wild card question, and I know you can handle it, right? When companies like yours come in to help organizations, right, there are times, even from my own experience, where the internal teams look at you and go, What are those guys doing here? Right? Like, is my job on the line. So they feel, they feel threatened, right by by somebody coming in and providing an external perspective. So I guess the question is, how do you deal with that kind of push back to help fix this leaky marketing funnel? Gabe Lullo 07:57 Yeah, it’s very important, right? Because a lot of companies come, you know, come in like us, and say, You know what, we’re going to come in here and try to solve the problem, or rip and replace or threaten the job. And it’s interesting, our point of contact, usually is the person who may be, you know, being fired because of our success. Well, we don’t want to approach it that way. So we set clear expectations that, hey, listen, we’re not here to rip and replace we are here to work as a parallel to what you’re existing doing, so we can A/B test and share best practices and be collective in those results. A lot of companies who have existing teams in place usually put us in scenarios where we’re bringing something new to market, or we’re reaching out to a market that is you know, you know, a new product line or a new segment, and we’re bringing that in. We do, however, see about a 20 to 30% increase in existing production when an outside partner comes in, because, again, we are sharing best practices. We’re all working together, but there is some pressure on the line when they see it. You know, another great player on the team playing ball. However, we did put a mechanism in place that really helps alleviate the fear, if you will, of that rip and replace scenario. Very unique thing to us, only a handful of companies I know about, of hundreds and if not thousands, that do what we do, do this. And here’s what it is, a lot of companies want to hire everything within and bring everything in house, in the sales development side within, because they graduate those people into account executives or closers or higher level performers or managers, so that graduation of career placement is there if you do it in house. So what we say is, you know what? You can have that great feeling of growing and building your team in house with us too. So all of our reps (representatives) who come work here, and all of our clients who enroll with us know that they can hire our reps and and bring them into their payroll and into their in house team with our help. So that’s a really good way of curving the fear, because they know, hey, this person who’s executing this outbound activity could be our next closer, and we can hire them to not take again, to not take away from what their current teams are doing, but to add to and grow that existing team they have. Christian Klepp 10:14 Absolutely, absolutely, and you know where I’m going with this, right? Because, like, you know, far too often, especially the higher ups that are not involved in the day to day, that are looking at this from the, I call it the Mount Olympus perspective, right, looking down at the land of the living, right? Like, why are you bringing in an external partner? Isn’t that your job to fix it? Right? But there are benefits to your point of, like, bringing in somebody that’s external, that’s not privy to, perhaps, some of the bias, some of the, certainly, the, certainly the organizational like dynamics and politics, which may, may be more detrimental than useful, right? Gabe Lullo 10:50 Yeah. I mean, we do punchy contracts, right? We have a six month minimum engagement. But so when we do that, you know, we’re saying, Hey, listen, we’re, we’re going to work with you for six months. We’re going to give it everything we got. And if it’s something you want to bring in-house from our team, great. If it’s you want to continue, great, or if you’ve learned a lot and you’re able to duplicate our efforts, also great too. So again, we’re not going in there saying, Oh, this is our world. Now. Get out of the way. Good luck, you know, and giving pink slips to people, it’s about really, again, how can we help? How can we assist? How can we hit this number? It’s not getting hit. There has to be reasons why. And let’s figure those numbers out, and let’s figure out the reasons why. And then, and then we move on, you know. So there’s short contracts, and then there’s very, very long contracts, you know, ZoomInfo has been a client off and on for the last decade. We’re doing a program right now where they just launched a lot of cool things, and we’re helping them so companies like that, size and stature, still come to outside help when necessary, when the timing is right and the fit is right. Christian Klepp 11:55 Amazing. Amazing. All right. Next question. So why do you believe rethinking how MQLs are defined and scored as the most strategic fix that a CMO can make, and what are some of these other key pitfalls that Marketers should avoid, and what should they be doing instead? I mean, let’s, let’s keep the conversation constructive here, right? Gabe Lullo 12:17 So defining and scoring MQLs is by far one of the first things, if not the most important thing, to start with, right? Because that is, again, the start of that assembly line. You know, garbage in, garbage out. And so if we’re not actually understanding why those MQLs are, the MQLs that we are saying they are, and what those triggering events are causing them to be considered. MQLs could truly dictate whether or not we’re receiving garbage into the funnel versus excellence and extraordinary leads and MQLs into the funnel. So again, it’s going back to that ICP, like we discussed earlier. It’s determining, okay, are these worthy and does it make sense to continue this, lead this MQL down the funnel, and will it produce results? Should it even be in the system at all? So knowing that up front, like I said earlier, it’s like the raw material. You know, if you have really bad raw material that you’re using to build your cars, you know, no matter how great it comes out at the other end, it’s not going to be a quality vehicle. So it’s that, it’s the raw material that we need to make sure that’s first and foremost, because it’s the start of the entire process. Christian Klepp 13:29 Yeah, yeah, no, that’s for sure. Because, you know, how many times have you heard that, right? Like the marketing team says, well, we’ve, we’ve got, we’ve generated the MQLs, we’ve passed them on to the sales team now, so we’re good, yeah, but that’s not where it stops, right? Like, so especially if the MQLs are, like, not qualified, right? Gabe Lullo 13:48 No, I couldn’t agree with you more. And again, having sales and marketing work synergistically in that determination is paramount. You know, so many companies, and it’s the old adage, and I think it’s almost a cliche now, because it’s been said so many times that you know, sales is throwing spears over the fence to marketing, and marketing is throwing another spear back to them, and they’re fighting back and forth over this wall. The deal is, you got to break down the wall and start having conversations. And again, sellers have to give feedback on why we’re seeing this to not be the right fit, and Marketers have to be curious and asking what those things may be happening on those conversations, so they can go find the MQLs that that is worthy. Christian Klepp 14:30 Absolutely, absolutely. And on that topic, what are some of these other pitfalls that marketers should be looking out for, and what should they be doing instead? Gabe Lullo 14:39 Yeah, I think what right now is that you have to really understand your channels. You know, a lot of Marketers right now are doubling down on things that may not be producing the results that they have been expecting. Maybe a year from now, two years from now, every company is different, every ICP is different, and every industry is different. I’ll give you an example. You know, if you’re reaching out to sellers and you know, red. Heads of revenue, you have to have a totally different approach than if you’re reaching out to VPs of technology and cyber security. Now that may sound basic, but if you were coming from a company and you’re in your head of marketing, and you’re coming from a company where your ICP and your persona is all tech based companies, or all tech based personas, and you go into a new industry or a new company, and you come with that lens. It’s not the right approach. You know, sellers like to pick up the phone. They think they’re customers. They use the phone all day long. They pick up the phone all the time. Maybe that’s the right channel, right? CTOs (Chief Technology Officers), CIOs (Chief Information Officers), CSOs (Chief Security Officers), they are not usually picking up the phone. Maybe they’re their channels significantly different, and so you have to realize, understand what your persona is, so you can do marketing activities towards that total addressable market that resonate and hit home and get their attention. And it could be just as much as where they live in regards to where, where do they associate with, what, what channel are they living on? Are they people that pick up the phone? Are they ones that live on LinkedIn? Are they ones that go to Instagram? Are they ones that go to conferences? Where is your audience? And know that first and then go talk to them? Christian Klepp 16:10 That’s definitely a great insight. You know it. I know it. The problem is that there’s so many teams out there that skip this part, right? Like that, like that. That detailed breakdown you just gave us about the different let’s call them like, the different personas, the different behaviors, the different channels, like, Why do you think a lot of teams out there skip this part? Is it because of the the time crunch, the pressure to deliver immediately is all of the above? Gabe Lullo 16:37 Yeah, I think, you know, there’s a lot of boardrooms out there. They come out with this unique product, and then with all they do is they do is they look at the TAM, what’s the total addressable market? But that’s like saying, I want to go catch a tuna fish. But you know, let’s just look at the entire ocean. Like, okay, we have to be more specific. Where do the tuna fish actually swim? Where part of Do they like warm water? Do they like the coast? Are they more towards New Zealand, or are they up towards the Massachusetts? So you have to know where your school of fish are. If you want to go fishing, you can’t just look at the entire ocean as the market. And I think narrowing it down to understand patterns and where people are so you can go talk to them is the right approach, versus this spray and pray mentality that I feel marketing has been living in for many, many years, and now it’s becoming more self evident because of AI, right? Because AI can tell us a lot of these things. AI can do a lot of analysis and research, and it’s giving us insights that we’ve never been able to really see before because of the speed and quickness of it. And so I think we are getting to a point, and I’m hopeful that we are more specific with our total addressable markets in new companies specifically that may not have the experience or the capacity like they used to. And I think it’s exciting. Christian Klepp 16:37 Oh Gabe, you just open the door to another question there. Man. Gabe Lullo 16:37 Like, start with an A. Christian Klepp 16:37 Yeah, it starts with an A. But, like, you know, since you brought it up, I’ve got to ask AI, right? Gabe Lullo 16:37 Yeah. Christian Klepp 16:37 And in terms of, like, helping to fix a leaky marketing funnel, how do you from your experience and your perspective, how do you think AI is helpful, and how is it harmful? Gabe Lullo 17:23 Sure. I mean double edged sword, right? We love AI. We accept it. We know it’s here. We’re not scared of it. We’re not running away from it, but we’re also not ripping and replacing things too abruptly with with the implementation of it, either. For instance, I’ll give you real examples. Are we telling AI to go make cold calls? Well, no, it’s illegal, technically. Secondly, are we using it, though, on the flip side, to train our reps on how to effectively handle great questions and objections through an AI sparring partner? Yeah, we are, and it’s amazing at it. So we actually have our reps when they’re brand new and onboarding or launching into a new campaign. We program the robot, the AI right to be able to have conversations in real life time with our reps, to literally spar with them. And it’s like practice. It’s a sparring partner before they go live onto a campaign, and it prepares them immensely before the live show, before they’re before they’re active, right on the campaign. So this is one way we’re doing it. Other ways, obviously email, messaging, obviously personalization, obviously research, you know, pre-call research, account research, determining who’s picking up the phone when they pick up the phone, how many times does it take to call them? You know, time zones? What’s the best time to call them? And it’s crazy what it could do, but it’s really, really helpful. But it’s not a crutch. It’s an assistant, and that’s how we’re approaching it. It’s not replacing human to human communication. If it was. Maybe you and I would just have our AI avatars do this podcast right instead of we’ll be on a beach somewhere, maybe we’ll be there in the future. I’m not predicting it, but I will say there’s a huge, significant role it plays right now, but it is not a role that’s, in my opinion, supposed to replace everything. It can replace a lot, but not everything. Christian Klepp 20:20 Absolutely. I mean, it certainly requires a lot of like, human intervention, right? And it’s and it’s constantly learning, and it’s learning quickly, which I think is to its benefit, to its detriment. And I think that’s, that’s your point as well. There’s a lot of stuff out there that’s AI generated that just looks off, starting with videos even, even like in I don’t know if you’ve dabbled with Google notebook, right? It can, it can take all that content and turn it into an audio file. And it’s scary. How real it sounds. Gabe Lullo 20:54 It is pretty scary. And I have seen tools like that. I love there’s one right now, where it’s actually tracking not even what someone is saying, but how they’re saying it. So tonality, right is a huge piece of communication, as we know, and so it’s literally listening to calls and sales calls, and not just again, we’ve seen it before, like, you know, Gong and others, where it’s telling, hey, maybe say this. Don’t say that, but it’s also giving that score of how they’re delivering that message, which, in my world, is huge because, you know, I could read a script, or I can, you know, have an amazing performance, and that’s how we approach, you know, the way we communicate on a phone call. So that is why we’re so excited. Because there’s new tools coming out all the time that are really, really impactful, for sure. Christian Klepp 21:42 Absolutely, absolutely. So you’ve touched on this a little bit like in the past couple of minutes, but explain how market research and strategy help to develop a solid marketing funnel, not a leaky one. Gabe Lullo 21:55 Yeah. I mean, I think it’s your playbook, right? You know, you have to have a built out playbook, and it’s your guide. And it’s not just important to go to market with a playbook, but it’s also going to market to scale, right? You know, once you get it to work, the ever everything after that is, how do we duplicate and how do we scale? So the playbook is that design is the architecture behind your strategy. So when we do start pouring fuel on the fire and we’re adding people, we’re adding leads, we’re adding workflows, we’re adding everything outside of that, we still go back to the playbook. It’s like the Constitution, right? Everything based off that in our country. I know we’re in different ones, but my point is is, is you have a framework, right, that we go off of and that playbook is so vital to our importance of market research gives us a great understanding of where that playbook is built and how it’s designed and how it’s architected, and that’s how we that’s how we do it here. Christian Klepp 22:55 And even how the playbook can be iterated, right? Because let’s not forget that it’s not written in stone. Gabe Lullo 23:01 Evolving. Yeah, absolutely. I do want to warn people, though, evolve with time. Be patient, right? You know, marketing, sales, development, it’s not a light switch. Yeah, I always say it’s like boiling water, right? So a watch pot technically does boil. It’s just painful to watch. So, but the point is, is that you have to give it enough time to see if that playbook is yielding results. What you don’t want to do is change the play, you know, too many times in the middle of the game, because then you look confused and confused. People do nothing, right? So, yes, is it evolving? Does it pivot? Does it grow? Do you do you change things up, of course. But also you want to do it in a tactful timeline to make sure that it is truly a working playbook or not. Christian Klepp 23:47 Absolutely, absolutely. And you brought something up, and I have to ask this, this next question, it’s… We know, from a marketing point of view, that rolling out these initiatives and seeing the results takes time, yeah, but we’ve had, I’ve certainly had this experience in B2B, that there are people, again, at the top, that don’t have oversight into the day to day, and probably also don’t understand quite how the process works, that don’t have that patience, right, that are telling you, like, hurry up and deliver like, we want results right now. So what do you say to those, I guess the people that are doubting that this initiative needs more time than they think it does. Gabe Lullo 24:30 Yeah. I mean, I think looking at benchmarks and case studies and past results is very important, like I said, Back to the boiling of water. You can show a thermometer as well, like you can see, is it working well? You can put a thermometer in a boiling pot of water and watch the temperature go up, right? And it gives you a clear indication and forecast, if you will, that you’re going to achieve boiling point eventually. It’s not just again, you put the water in and then. And you all of a sudden, measure boiling. You have to measure along the way, and that’s we want to do. So what the ways we do it specifically is, if we’re working on a campaign that is almost a look alike campaign to another company, maybe it’s in the same industry, same ICP, you know, same your size, same scope, we can look at that historical result and say, Hey, by the way, if we do these, these, these and these, you’re going to we’re going to expect boiling point at this time based on a company that’s very similar to yours. Now, is it identical? No, maybe that company has really bad sellers we talked about. Maybe that company doesn’t really care about content and they’re just missing the boat there. Maybe they have a crappy website, like, I don’t, there’s different levers that could, you know, alter the recipe, but we can absolutely make highly educated guesses, as opposed to just trying to wing it or give false expectations. Christian Klepp 25:54 Yeah, yeah, no, that’s absolutely right, all right. I mean, you’ve given us a lot of, like, recommendations, a lot of actionable tips. So walk us through, and I know it varies from company to company and case by case, but walk us through the process of how you actually fix a leaky marketing funnel. Like, what are the steps? What are those key components that absolutely have to be in that process? Gabe Lullo 26:14 Yeah, you have to, you know, inspect what you expect. You have to understand what your messaging is, and you have to A/B test it all the time. I A/B test everything, whether it’s data vendors, whether it’s email messaging, whether it’s LinkedIn content, what you have, obviously mechanisms, depending on what tech you’re working with, what vendors you’re working with, or your history or historical results are to give you grades and scores and A/B testing everything. So if you have, you know campaigns that are running that are successful, you should be able to know how to measure that. That’s what’s so important. So you have to have inspect, inspection tools in place across everything you’re doing on those campaigns to tell you, Hey, this is broken, this is leaky. This isn’t working. Or on the flip side, this is crushing right now. This is totally resonating right now, and we’re loving these, seeing these numbers, and then pour fuel on that fire and focus on that and remove the other ones, and still A/B test, because you always want to keep getting better. So A/B test everything, define the leaks, and then try to fix those leaks as fast as possible. Christian Klepp 27:23 Fantastic, fantastic. And because we’re talking about marketing funnels, I mean, like, I can’t help myself but ask you, okay, but what about metrics? Because that’s something that people want to see, right? But I’m not talking about like, let’s, let’s come up with this like, laundry list of like metrics, and you go down this deep rabbit hole. Like, what are the metrics that you would say, or you would advise B2B Marketers to look at to say, like, okay, we’re trying to fix the leaky marketing funnel here, and these metrics will help you to indicate that there is progress. Gabe Lullo 27:53 Yeah. I mean, it’s harder now than ever before to metric things out, and it’s because of tech that’s kind of getting in the way. You know, for instance, in an email campaign, there’s been some rules and regulations in the last recent years that prevents us from seeing whether or not there’s clicks and opens that are happening on email campaigns. I’ve actually removed many of those triggers completely away from our campaigns, because it’s preventing deliverability, and it’s preventing our ability to keep domains healthy. So there are a lot of moving parts right now that’s happening because of these AI filtration tools. I just heard Google just released that it’s going to now put disclaimers and emails saying that this was written by AI. And so there’s it’s ever involving so depending on I guess when your listeners are hearing this, it may be completely different in a year, but I will tell you that there are definitely things that we need to metric and we need to have KPIs for. But I think the priority of what we used to measure two, three years ago, is significantly different than what we measure today, because of those rules and regulations. So if we’re talking about emails, I want to know what we’re sending, who we’re sending it to, who obviously is responding. What are those responses look like? Is it turning to an actual lead? Are we turning on warm leads, or are we just looking at set meetings? You know, it’s interesting, right? There is only about 2 to 3% of the market ever wants to truly buy, and they’re in buying mode, and I think a lot of companies are just looking for those people, and about 20% of the market is actually interested in buying and we turn that entire segment off. It’s about 10 times more people. But if we can warm the nurture them correctly, and message them correctly, that’s where the rubber meets the road, and that’s where your gold is. I like to analogize everything. So, yeah, when you have a green apple, right? What do you do with the green apple? You put it on the window sill, and then the sun on the windowsill warms it up. Now, that doesn’t mean you just throw out the apple. That means you have a lot of opportunity. You just have. To nurture, and you be patient. And you have to know that timing is everything in business. So if you’re just looking for the red apples, you’re only gonna get 3% if you’re looking for green apples that turn into red apples, now you’re getting 25% so focus on the 25, be patient. Fix those leaky buckets, of course. A/B test, and then then you measure. Christian Klepp 30:20 Yeah or you get yourself an apple orchard. You mentioned one keyword there, nurture, right? I think that’s the one that’ll I see a lot of, like people in sales and even in marketing, right? They just don’t take that time to nurture those leads. They close in. I keep saying they close in for the kill too fast, right? Gabe Lullo 30:44 Yeah. I mean, go back to that food analogy, that the fruit analogy, again. Christian Klepp 30:49 Sure. Gabe Lullo 30:49 I’m on a roll with that. Christian Klepp 30:50 Please. Gabe Lullo 30:50 It’s the low hanging fruit cliche, right? Christian Klepp 30:52 Yes. Gabe Lullo 30:52 Everyone focuses on the low hanging fruit. They’re not focusing on what else is part of that harvest. They’re not focusing on the nurturing. They’re not focused on watering. They’re not focusing on circling back, following up, checking in, providing value in those checks. Not just say, Hey, I’m following up, no, provide value in those seconds, right? And that’s again, that’s where you see excellence happen, you know? And there’s a lot of young, and I don’t mean to be age, but like tenure, people that are experienced, that are in these experience roles right now, and I feel that they’re just trying to get that quick answer and that quick response. And we’re in this like dopamine, like, you know, hit like social media environment right now. Not to go off topic, but I think people are not again, they’re in this microwave society, and they don’t understand the value of nurturing. And if you do and you treat that part seriously, wow, it usually is a windfall at that time. Christian Klepp 31:47 Absolutely, absolutely. It’s an art, a skill, a craft, isn’t it? Right? All of you love, okay, my friend, we come to the point in the conversation where we’re talking about actionable tips, and Gabe, you’ve given us plenty, all right, but just think of this kind of like a recap. If there was somebody listening to this conversation that you and I are having, and you want them to walk away with three to five things that they that they can take action on right now, when it comes to fixing a leaky marketing funnel, what would they be? Gabe Lullo 32:17 Well, I think the best thing is you have to really decide if you have the right people in place, right, and are they? And it doesn’t mean that they are the ones that are going to bring it home. It doesn’t mean that they’re they don’t need support and training and love, like, do they have the commitment? Do they have good experience? Are they willing to roll up their sleeves and get get a little dirty, and if you feel like you have a great team in place of people that are ready to get to work and solve some problems. I think that is literally step one. Step two is, do we have the messaging in the mark, in the ICP nailed down? We really need to know that, because, again, there’s no point of building a campaign if you don’t know who you’re sending it to. And then, thirdly, you really have to make sure that you’re willing to A/B test. It’s hard enough to build a campaign, but it’s much more difficult to build two or three campaigns. Run three campaigns, right as opposed to one, and score each of them to determine what’s working, what’s effective, and what’s not, and then you pivot based on those results. So I think finding a great team is basic and fundamental. Finding a great ice or determining a great ICP is before you build the messaging and then measure the message across multiple campaigns, and then you should be on your way Christian Klepp 33:29 And test, test, test, everything, right? Gabe Lullo 33:34 Yes, it’s great. It could be working. It’s exciting, but maybe there’s a significantly more effective way of doing it, even though it’s still working, and let the data make those decisions for you and drive everything based off data driven decisions, and that’s how you should be operating. Christian Klepp 33:51 Absolutely, absolutely. All right. Here comes the soapbox question, a status quo in your area of expertise that you passionately disagree with and why? Gabe Lullo 34:05 Yeah, I think the big thing right now, and I have to just kind of talk about my space, because you said in my industries, like, there’s a lot of, you know, people out there soapboxing, to be exact, on things that are dead or not. And I will tell you that, you know, cold calling is dead, emailing is dead. You know, LinkedIn is dead, or all of these things and and when you peel back the onion, you notice that those individuals who are saying that users are trying to sell a book or something, and nothing against selling books, but it sounds like there’s a personal agenda and not actual operational intelligence that is dictating what they’re saying. So to your point about testing everything, don’t assume something is not going to work just because someone said it on the internet. Test it and then decide if it’s going to work. And it may surprise you in a big, big way. Christian Klepp 34:56 I truly believe that, man, I truly believe that. I mean to your point. About, like, email being dead. I mean, I did close one client who was a guest on the show, and it took me a year to close, but I closed it through email. Gabe Lullo 35:09 Yeah. Christian Klepp 35:11 Right. And it’s to your point, it’s sending, sending that person articles that were relevant to that person’s industry and saying, like, Hey, I read this the other day, what are your thoughts on this? And here’s my take. What do you think? Gabe Lullo 35:24 That is the best way to do an email, right? You know, we do a lot of content and on social media, we do a lot of podcasting, posts on LinkedIn, but that’s all great, but where the rubber meets the road is you take that post and you send it in an email or a direct message and say, Hey, listen. This made me think of our last conversation, and I really liked the way that this person mentioned this. Do you think you know that there is, is the timing right here to reopen this conversation, and you feel like the problem is still existing in your world, and love to see if we can solve it for you, that type of content, that type of message, that type of verbiage at the right time in a nurture campaign like we discussed, close one business, right? That’s how it works. Christian Klepp 36:08 Absolutely, absolutely okay. Here comes the bonus question, and for those of you that are listening to the audio version, Gabe’s got two guitars right behind him, so I’m just gonna go on a hunch here that he likes playing guitar, right? So the question is, if you had the opportunity to, like, go on a tour with your favorite guitarist/musician, who would it be, and where would you go? Gabe Lullo 36:36 Wow, I love this question. I do play the guitar. I’m a bet big avid music player. Love Rock as well, but all genres, I will say, in real life, we just actually my family, my wife and daughter and I went to go see Oasis reunion tour, which was in Toronto, actually, out of all places. Christian Klepp 36:53 That’s right, you mentioned it. Gabe Lullo 36:54 Yeah, we went to see that. It was epic. Obviously, the brothers have been apart for many years. A lot of drama there. But yeah, you know, I’m old enough to remember their original songs, so it was cool to reminisce and introduce my daughter to that music, which was pretty cool. We’re gonna go see Paul McCartney in a few weeks. He’s on tour now and never seen him or I’m a big fan of The Beatles, and I think that would be really exciting to tour with him, obviously. And I think those are definitely both of those right there kind of sum up the type of music that I resonate with. Christian Klepp 37:26 Amazing, amazing. I just remember, like, this is, this is a couple of years ago. I think he’s already passed away, but Compay Segundo. Gabe Lullo 37:33 Oh yeah. Christian Klepp 37:34 Buena Vista Social Club. And the guy was in his 90s, and they were, they had a concert, and they they brought him up in stage in his wheelchair, helped him get up, get out of that wheelchair, and they gave him that guitar, and off he went, Man, like, Gabe Lullo 37:48 Yeah, yeah, that’s amazing, man, that’s amazing. Christian Klepp 37:53 Gabe, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much for coming on and for sharing your experience and expertise with the listeners. So please quick intro to yourself and how folks out there can get in touch with you. Gabe Lullo 38:03 Yeah, LinkedIn is the best way to connect with me directly. I post twice a day, every day. We’re very bullish with our content. There’s a lot of free material there. We have a newsletter, so please take a look at that, and if you like what you see, and he heard today, you know, reach out, and I’ll definitely be responsive. And you know, anyone who is looking or struggling with the after-sales motion, which are after marketing motion, that sales development function, that’s where we play, and we’d love to look at what you’re looking for and see how we can help. Christian Klepp 38:33 Sounds good. Gabe, once again, thank you so much for your time. Take care, stay safe and talk to you soon. Gabe Lullo 38:38 Thanks, Christian. Christian Klepp 38:39 All right. Bye for now.
#321 | Jess Cook, VP of Marketing at Vector, joins Dave to break down what's actually working in early-stage B2B marketing. They dig into how she thinks about attribution for brand channels, how Vector's podcast became a top marketing channel, why they created a brand mascot, and details on what content strategy is working on LinkedIn right now. They also cover shift from content leader to VP of Marketing and how to drive demand without a massive team or budget.Timestamps(03:06) - — Meet Jess Cook & What is Vector? (07:39) - — B2B Influencer pilot setup: why this channel, why now (14:57) - — The result: 45 demos, ~$1.1M pipeline, and how she tracked it (16:55) - — How to run influencers (22:20) - — Scaling idea: retainer-style influencer partnerships (26:00) - — Vector's podcast: “awareness magnet” and the format that works (28:24) - — The production system: in-person batch recording a full season in 2 days (42:10) - — Jess's LinkedIn strategy: why she started posting and what she optimizes for (53:58) - — Content → VP shift: the two muscles she's building (metrics + leadership) Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterLearn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/***Brought to you by:Optimizely - A no-code AI platform where autonomous agents execute marketing work across webpages, email, SEO, and campaigns. Get a free, personalized 45-minute AI workshop to help you identify the best AI use cases for your marketing team and map out where agents can save you time at optimizely.com/exitfive. AirOps - The content engineering platform that helps marketers create and maintain high-quality, on-brand content that wins AI search. Go to airops.com/exitfive to start creating content that reflects your expertise, stays true to your brand, and is engineered for performance across human and AI discovery.Visit exitfive.com/retreat to apply for Exit Five's first-ever, in-person Marketing Leadership Retreat, March 18–20, 2026 in Scottsdale, Arizona. Join 100 CMOs and VPs of Marketing from companies like like Zoom, Snowflake, Manychat, Bitly, G2, HP, and more for two days of thinking bigger around a trusted group of peers in marketing. ***Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more
The CPG Guys are joined in this episode by Khurrum Malik, VP of Business and Customer Marketing at Walmart Connect, the retail media arm of Walmart Inc.The episode was recorded in the Walmart Connect Studio in the Aria Resort.Follow Khurrum on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/malik/Follow Walmart Connect on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/company/walmart-connect/Follow Walmart Connect online at: http://walmartconnect.comKhurrum answers these questions:You've recently taken on an expanded role overseeing business and product communications at Walmart Connect. How has that broader remit shaped the way you think about telling the Walmart Connect story today?WMC has evolved quickly over the last few years. For listeners who still associate retail media mainly with lower-funnel ads, what's the biggest misconception you're trying to correct?AI is reshaping nearly every part of the marketing stack. From your perspective, what does AI-powered retail media actually mean—and what does it enable that wasn't possible even a year or two ago?As WMC makes announcements in this space, what problems are you most focused on solving for advertisers with AI—efficiency, effectiveness, measurement, or something else?Looking ahead, how do you see AI changing the role of the marketer as retail media becomes more central to the media mix?From a marketing leader's vantage point, what are the biggest challenges CMOs are staring down as we approach 2026?Many CMOs are under pressure to do more with less—fewer partners, tighter budgets, higher accountability. Where does retail media uniquely help address those pressures?How do you think retail media's role in the media plan will shift over the next 18–24 months—especially relative to traditional digital and linear channels?Since joining, you've led a brand refresh and new narrative for Walmart Connect, simplifying the story into two buckets: brand and performance. Why was that distinction so important, and how does it help advertisers better navigate the platform?You've compared this moment to a bit of a “Who Knew?” campaign—what are the most surprising capabilities of Walmart Connect that brands still don't fully appreciate?If you were advising a CMO or media leader today, what's one thing they should start doing now to be ready for where retail media is headed by 2026?When you think about the next chapter for WMC, what excites you most about what's coming—and what should our listeners be watching closely?CPG Guys Website: http://CPGguys.comFMCG Guys Website: http://FMCGguys.comSheCOMMERCE Website: https://shecommercepodcast.com/DISCLAIMER: The content in this podcast episode is provided for general informational purposes only. By listening to our episode, you understand that no information contained in this episode should be construed as advice from CPGGUYS, LLC or the individual author, hosts, or guests, nor is it intended to be a substitute for research on any subject matter. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by CPGGUYS, LLC. The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent.CPGGUYS LLC expressly disclaims any and all liability or responsibility for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, consequential or other damages arising out of any individual's use of, reference to, or inability to use this podcast or the information we presented in this podcast.
In this episode of Scratch, Eric sits down with Adrian Rosenkranz, Chief Revenue Officer at Webflow, to explore how AI is fundamentally changing the way brands grow, compete and get discovered. As large language models reshape how people find and evaluate products, Adrian argues that marketing is shifting from a game of clicks and traffic to a game of relevance and answers, where your website, content and brand have to work for both humans and machines at the same time. We're effectively marketing to bots at this point! They dig into what this means in practice for CMOs, from how SEO and content strategies need to evolve, to why many AI initiatives stall inside large organisations. If you're currently trying to bring AI to your marketing team (Who isn't?) then Adrian has some practical guidance and perspectives to share to ensure that your AI initiatives actually deliver something valuable. The conversation also goes beyond tools and tactics into leadership, creativity and culture. Adrian reflects on lessons from Salesforce, the importance of narrative and design thinking, and why creativity, taste and speed of adaptation are becoming the true sources of differentiation in an AI-native world. It's a wide-ranging discussion about how marketing, growth and brand leadership need to evolve for the next era of the web.Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube
Brand vs Demand: Why B2B Marketing Is Stuck in a Measurement TrapIn this episode of The Metrics Brothers, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike tackle one of the most persistent and controversial questions in B2B marketing: Brand vs. Demand.The discussion is grounded in new data from the 2026 B2B Brand vs Demand Benchmark Report. While most marketing teams say they believe brand and demand are complementary, the numbers tell a more complicated story.Today's reality?Marketing budgets are still heavily skewed toward short-term demand generation, with roughly 70% of spend allocated to demand and only ~25% to brand. Yet when asked how they want to invest, marketing leaders overwhelmingly say they'd prefer a much more balanced future, closer to 50% demand and 40% brand.So why the disconnect?Ray and Dave dig into the root cause: measurement.Demand generation is tied to metrics CFOs understand like pipeline dollars, opportunities, and ARR. Brand, on the other hand, is still largely measured using proxy metrics like website traffic and awareness, leaving many executives unable to confidently link brand investments to revenue outcomes. Only 28% of companies say they can directly tie brand activity to pipeline, and when budgets are cut, brand is sacrificed five times more often than demand.The episode also explores:Why performance marketing struggles are pushing CMOs back toward brandThe growing inefficiency of demand spend aimed at “future buyers”How much of the “demand” budget is effectively unmeasured brand spendThe dangerous gap between belief in brand and proof of impactWhy AEO, AI search, and LLM visibility will make brand ROI even harder and more urgent to measureRay and Dave don't just highlight the findings, they discuss the reality of Chief Marketing Officers making the Brand vs Demand budget allocation trade-offs.One key takeaway? Until brand investments can be credibly connected to pipeline efficiency, win rates, and ARR, it will remain more a faith-based investment instead of a financial one the CFOs understand.If you're a CMO trying to defend brand spend, or a CFO trying to understand where marketing dollars truly drive growth, this episode is required listening.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Host Sima Vasa welcomes Carol Sue Haney, Head of Research and Data Science, Engineering at Qualtrics, to discuss the transformative role of AI and data science in the market research industry. Carol Sue explains Qualtrics’ early bet on generative AI and the development of proprietary LLMs, moving into agentic work and synthetic sampling, which she predicts will rival non-probability human sampling for quick-turn research. She emphasizes the challenges CMOs face with data overload and the fundamental importance of using regression analysis to link customer experience (CX) data, including the surprising weight of marketing messages, to crucial business outcomes like renewal and revenue growth. Key Takeaways: 00:00 Introduction.03:12 Data research careers spanned decades before computers existed.06:35 Early generative AI investment provides significant competitive advantages.09:20 Synthetic research boosts accuracy using rich, proven seed data.13:02 AI models instantly incorporate new information for continuous improvement.17:09 Regression remains essential for identifying true business drivers.20:42 Curated data and guided AI make regression faster and reliable.24:18 Financial independence through careers empowers women in critical ways.25:42 Mentorship and knowledge sharing strengthen the entire research industry. Resources Mentioned: Qualtrics | Website #Analytics #MA #Data #Strategy #Innovation #Acquisitions #MRX #Restech
"Marketing at Meta - The View From the Eye of the Storm"A CMO Confidential Interview with Alex Schultz, the Meta CMO and VP of Analytics, and author of Click Here: The Art & Science of Digital Marketing and Advertising. Alex details why he believes in decentralized analytics and the importance of focusing on core results vs vanity metrics, why AI is a "threshold technology", and why and how the company transitioned to Meta. Key topics include: the barbell distribution of AI competency (native users and very senior experienced leaders); why he believes so strongly in "incrementality measurements"; how he and his team handle the emotional impact of being in the center of political discussions and; why marketers should be thinking about 2027. Tune in to hear a story about affiliate marketing incentives gone wrong and the eBay/Google "Tea Party" incident.What's it really like to be CMO at one of the most scrutinized companies in the world?In this episode of **CMO Confidential**, host Mike Linton sits down with **Alex Schultz**, CMO and VP of Analytics at Meta, for a wide-ranging, unfiltered conversation on marketing leadership inside the eye of the storm. Alex breaks down how Meta structures marketing and analytics at global scale, why marketing must be centralized while analytics should not, and what most companies get wrong about “one source of truth.”The conversation goes deep on navigating nonstop political and cultural pressure, shortening negative news cycles, and keeping teams emotionally grounded when the brand is under fire. Alex also shares some of the clearest executive thinking we've heard on AI as a *threshold technology* — where it truly creates leverage, where humans must stay in the loop, and how CMOs should assess AI talent today.The episode closes with inside stories from the Facebook-to-Meta rebrand, hard-earned lessons from eBay on incrementality measurement, and practical advice for preparing your organization for 2027 and beyond.If you're a CMO, CEO, founder, or senior operator responsible for growth, measurement, and brand under pressure — this is required listening.New episodes of **CMO Confidential** drop every Tuesday.---## Chapters & Timestamps00:00 – Welcome to CMO Confidential00:01 – Alex Schultz's role: CMO & VP of Analytics at Meta00:03 – Why marketing is centralized but analytics are decentralized00:06 – “One source of truth” and killing vanity metrics00:09 – Marketing while constantly in the global spotlight00:11 – Managing crisis cycles, truth, and comms alignment00:12 – AI's real impact on marketing productivity00:15 – AI as a threshold technology (precision vs. recall)00:17 – How AI is reshaping analytics, creative, and teams00:18 – Hiring for AI: the barbell talent distribution00:22 – Preparing for 2027: information flow and AI philosophy00:25 – How B2B marketing is (and isn't) changing00:28 – Inside the Facebook → Meta rebrand00:32 – Lessons from eBay: incrementality over last-click00:36 – What downturns reveal about leadership talent00:37 – Why Alex wrote his book on digital marketing00:40 – Affiliate marketing, incentives, and unintended consequences00:43 – Final advice for CMOs and marketers---CMO Confidential, Alex Schultz, Meta marketing, Facebook Meta rebrand, marketing leadership, CMO podcast, executive marketing, analytics strategy, marketing analytics, AI in marketing, artificial intelligence marketing, incrementality measurement, digital marketing strategy, B2B marketing, growth marketing, brand under pressure, crisis communications, marketing measurement, performance marketing, last click attribution, marketing org design, marketing podcast--See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
In this episode of The Fractional CMO Show, Casey tackles the brutal reality every fractional CMO faces: prospects just don't care about what you're offering. Casey shares a war story about losing a private jet deal the moment he confused "FOB" with "FBO" - instantly revealing himself as an outsider faking expertise. The prospect literally laughed in his face. Most fractional CMOs show up talking about "marketing that isn't working" instead of understanding the CEO whose marriage is crumbling from late nights, or the franchisor terrified about what their FDD will reveal. The truth? You don't know your audience well enough. Experienced executives don't hire generalists claiming to help "B2B SaaS" or "healthcare." Learn the pains. Speak the language. Become a student of one specific industry instead of pretending you can help everyone. Key Topics Covered: -Know your audience deeply: Become fluent in their language and visceral pains, not surface-level problems -The FOB vs FBO lesson: One wrong acronym cost Casey a private jet client - proving he was an outsider faking expertise -Real pains business owners face: Crumbling marriages from late nights, embarrassing FDD reports, losing first-to-market position, burnt out from bad consulting advice -"B2B SaaS" isn't a niche: Go specific enough that you know when companies get funding, what software they use, and speak the insider language -Nobody knows who you are: Stop waiting for inbound - go talk to strangers, build real relationships, announce yourself as the specialist -Business owners spend aggressively: They don't want to save money, they want speed - and they'll pay for the right person -Bridge the awareness gap: Prospects know something's broken but don't know a fractional CMO exists as the solution
#320 | Matt Carnevale, Head of Community at Exit Five, joins Dave for a discussion about community building. They dive into a bunch of the lessons learned from building the Exit Five community over the last few years, including specific plays like onboarding, matchmaking, and moderation. If you're thinking about community building in 2026, this is a good primer; plus the guys give their opinion on what “community” actually means and whether you should build a private community like Exit Five or focus more broadly on community building.Timestamps(00:02) - – Matt's path from BDR to Head of Community at Exit Five (08:29) - – What “community” actually means (and what it definitely isn't) (13:14) - – Why most B2B communities fail before they ever get traction (17:54) - – Community vs. content: what gets people in vs. what makes them stay (22:29) - – Why Slack groups aren't a strategy (27:14) - – Treating community like a product, not a marketing channel (34:48) - – The role of trust, curation, and saying no to the wrong people (40:23) - – What community managers actually do behind the scenes (47:18) - – How in-person events changed the Exit Five community (53:28) - – The biggest lessons Matt's learned after two years building Exit Five Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterLearn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/***Brought to you by:Optimizely - A no-code AI platform where autonomous agents execute marketing work across webpages, email, SEO, and campaigns. Get a free, personalized 45-minute AI workshop to help you identify the best AI use cases for your marketing team and map out where agents can save you time at optimizely.com/exitfive. AirOps - The content engineering platform that helps marketers create and maintain high-quality, on-brand content that wins AI search. Go to airops.com/exitfive to start creating content that reflects your expertise, stays true to your brand, and is engineered for performance across human and AI discovery.Visit exitfive.com/retreat to apply for Exit Five's first-ever, in-person Marketing Leadership Retreat, March 18–20, 2026 in Scottsdale, Arizona. Join 100 CMOs and VPs of Marketing from companies like like Zoom, Snowflake, Manychat, Bitly, G2, HP, and more for two days of thinking bigger around a trusted group of peers in marketing. ***Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more
Alex Halliday made his first fortune at 15 building fan sites in the early web. Now he's back at the center of another digital reset — helping brands survive AI-driven search. In this episode, he explains why “information gain” beats spam, why Google is under threat, and how AirOps grew from Series A to B in record time as CMOs woke up to the danger. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
In this episode of The New Quantum Era, your host Sebastian Hassinger is joined by Chetan Nayak, Technical Fellow at Microsoft, professor of physics at the University of California Santa Barbara, and driving force behind Microsoft's quantum hardware R&D program. They discuss a modality of qubit that has not been covered on the podcast before, based on Majorana fermonic behaviors, which have the promise of providing topological protection against the errors which are such a challenge to quantum computing. Guest Bio Chetan Nayak is a Technical Fellow at Microsoft and leads the company's topological quantum hardware program, including the Majorana‑1 processor based on Majorana‑zero‑mode qubits. He is also a professor of physics at UCSB and a leading theorist in topological phases of matter, non‑Abelian anyons, and topological quantum computation. Chetan co‑founded Microsoft's Station Q in 2005, building a bridge from theoretical proposals for topological qubits to engineered semiconductor–superconductor devices. What we talk about Chetan's first exposure to quantum computing in Peter Shor's lectures at the Institute for Advanced Study, and how that intersected with his PhD work with Frank Wilczek on non‑Abelian topological phases and Majorana zero modes. The early days of topological quantum computation: fractional quantum Hall states at , emergent quasiparticles, and the realization that braiding these excitations naturally implements Clifford gates. How Alexei Kitaev's toric‑code and Majorana‑chain ideas connected abstract topology to concrete condensed‑matter systems, and led to Chetan's collaboration with Michael Freedman and Sankar Das Sarma. The 2005 proposal for a gallium‑arsenide quantum Hall device realizing a topological qubit, and the founding of Station Q to turn such theoretical blueprints into experimental devices in partnership with academic labs. Why Microsoft pivoted from quantum Hall platforms to semiconductor–superconductor nanowires: leveraging the Fu–Kane proximity effect, spin–orbit‑coupled semiconductors, and a huge material design space—while wrestling with the challenges of interfaces and integration. The evolution of the tetron architecture: two parallel topological nanowires with four Majorana zero modes, connected by a trivial superconducting wire and coupled to quantum dots that enable native Z‑ and X‑parity loop measurements. How topological superconductivity allows a superconducting island to host even or odd total electron parity without a local signature, and why that nonlocal encoding provides hardware‑level protection for the qubit's logical 0 and 1. Microsoft's roadmap in a 2D “quality vs. complexity” space: improving topological gap, readout signal‑to‑noise, and measurement fidelity while scaling from single tetrons to error‑corrected logical qubits and, ultimately, utility‑scale systems. Error correction on top of topological qubits: using surface codes and Hastings–Haah Floquet codes with native two‑qubit parity measurements, and targeting hundreds of physical tetrons per logical qubit and thousands of logical qubits for applications like Shor's algorithm and quantum chemistry. Engineering for scale: digital, on–off control of quantum‑dot couplings; cryogenic CMOS to fan out control lines inside the fridge; and why tetron size and microsecond‑scale operations sit in a sweet spot for both physics and classical feedback. Where things stand today: the Majorana‑1 chiplet, recent tetron loop‑measurement experiments, DARPA's US2QC program, and how external users—starting with government and academic partners—will begin to access these devices before broader Azure Quantum integration. Papers and resources mentionedThese are representative papers and resources that align with topics and allusions in the conversation; they are good entry points if you want to go deeper.Non‑Abelian Anyons and Topological Quantum Computation – S. Das Sarma, M. Freedman, C. Nayak, Rev. Mod. Phys. 80, 1083 (2008); Early device proposalsSankar Das Sarma, Michael Freedman, and Chetan Nayak, “Topological quantum computation,” Physics Today 59(7), 32–38 (July 2006).Roadmap to fault‑tolerant quantum computation using topological qubits – C. Nayak et al., arXiv:2502.12252. Distinct lifetimes for X and Z loop measurements in a Majorana tetron - C. Nayaak et al., arXiv:2507.08795.Majorana qubit codes that also correct odd-weight errors - S. Kundu and B. Reichardt, arXiv:2311.01779. Microsoft's Majorana 1 chip carves new path for quantum computing, Microsoft blog post
If you feel stuck in your business and you just wish someone would tell you exactly what to do next, or even better yet do it for you, this video is exactly what you need. Here's why: I challenged AI to create a custom sales plan to generate $35,000 in 14 days and then implement the plan for me. This video shows you exactly what happened. I'm making this for you because research shows that most business owners are stuck. They want their businesses to do better, and they know something's not right. Maybe it's not enough traffic, maybe their conversions are off. Maybe it's something wrong with their email. Who knows? So they end up feeling stuck, overwhelmed, and they do nothing. Some turn to expensive consultants. Some use fractional CMOs. A lot of those people give really good advice, but now the business owner still has to implement it. And sometimes they don't know how to implement it. Or they don't have time to implement it. Or they don't have the budget to hire someone to implement it. That's why, in this video, you're going to see oJoy.ai diagnose a business, find out what's stuck, and then create a custom plan to bring in as many sales as possible. On top of that, you'll also see it implement the plan. AI has changed now. Most of it gives generic advice based on pattern recognition. After all, it pretty much knows everything that's on the internet, so it looks for patterns and looks for things that marketing experts do, and then it simply imitates what they do. There is a really big difference between imitation and the real thing. oJoy.ai can actually think. It can analyze your complete business. Find out all of your opportunities and weak spots. Give you a custom plan and even implement that plan for you.
Renegade Thinkers Unite: #2 Podcast for CMOs & B2B Marketers
Nine years in. 500 episodes later. Hundreds of CMOs on the mic. A deep well of marketing wisdom for anyone brave enough to draw from it. This milestone episode is a celebration of the bold B2B ideas, experiments, and hard-earned lessons that have filled the show from day one. Thank-you to every marketer who has listened, shared, and dared to try something new because of what they heard here. Recorded live at the 2025 Super Huddle, Drew's conversations with Udi Ledergor, Denise Persson and Chris Degnan, and Carilu Dietrich anchor this milestone episode. In this episode: Udi shares how Gong pulled off a Super Bowl spot on a regional budget, aimed it at VPs of Sales, and tracked impact in traffic, conversations, and pipeline. Denise and Chris explain how a CMO and CRO stayed aligned through four CEOs at Snowflake and evolved the story from "cloud data warehouse" to "data cloud," all in lockstep. Carilu shows how Lovable is building a movement with real users as influencers, a CEO who lives on social, and a speed-first mindset tuned to the pace of AI and customer buzz. Plus: Why a "crazy ideas" budget creates room for standout plays that still satisfy the CFO How empathy for sales and shared ownership of the number strengthen CRO-CMO alignment How CEO-led social, customer stories, and edutainment power modern B2B brands What it takes to move at AI speed while keeping product value and customer love at the center If you want a concentrated hit of CMO-level courage, alignment, and playmaking, this milestone episode is your highlight reel. For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcasts/ To learn more about CMO Huddles, visit https://cmohuddles.com/
Marketing is shifting — and many brands feel it, even if they can't yet name it. In this episode, Sonia Thompson speaks with Bennie F. Johnson, CEO of the American Marketing Association, about the AMA 2026 Marketing Trends shaping the future of modern marketing and growth marketing. They unpack how trust in marketing, AI in marketing, and audience fragmentation are rewriting the rules of growth — driving up customer acquisition costs, raising expectations for relevance, and reshaping how brands build credibility in identity-driven communities. Drawing on insights from the AMA's 2026 Future Trends in Marketing research, this conversation explores what's changing beneath the surface — from responsible artificial intelligence, inclusive leadership, and evolving workforce models to the implications for growth strategy in today's complex marketing environment.
Welcome to a very special CMO Whisper at CES episode. This is part of an ongoing series of conversations we're recording before, during, and after CES to give CMOs and growth leaders real perspective on what actually matters right now and what's coming next. Today, I'm joined by Chase Miller, Chief Growth Officer at Claritas, where he leads go-to-market strategy and revenue growth, aligning sales, marketing, and product around an integrated growth vision. A long-time builder of market-making data business, Chase brings deep experience across analytics, monetization, product strategy, and strategic partners. He is a co-founder of Nielsen Catalina Solutions and has held senior leadership roles at Nielsen, Indian Hill Group, and Claritas. Across his career, Chase has focused on turning data identity and measurement into scalable growth engines for brands, agencies and platforms. And finally, Claritas is graciously supporting this entire CES series, helping making these conversations possible so marketing leaders can learn and hear directly from operators who are deep into work, not just talking about it.
#319 | Dave sits down with Jess Lytle, Head of Marketing at Exit Five, to talk about how AI is changing the job of B2B marketers and the reality of how AI is actually being adopted internally. They also cover how AI even helped Jess get her job at Exit Five and why she's become obsessed about deploying AI in marketing and really believes this is the most important martech wave yet. Timestamps(00:00) - – Goals, manifestation, and reverse-engineering outcomes (06:14) - – Meet Jess Lytle, Head of Marketing at Exit Five (08:28) - – How Jess got hired at Exit Five (webinar → DMs → job) (10:28) - – From demand gen to AI: early adoption, teaching, and Lovable (15:58) - – Why AI feels different than traditional martech (18:28) - – Content in 2026: originality, human insight, and AI distribution (29:16) - – NotebookLM: real marketing workflows and internal use cases (35:16) - – AI tools, team structure, and hybrid marketer roles (45:56) - – Working at Exit Five, founder-led marketing, and brand bets Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterLearn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/***Brought to you by:Optimizely - A no-code AI platform where autonomous agents execute marketing work across webpages, email, SEO, and campaigns. Get a free, personalized 45-minute AI workshop to help you identify the best AI use cases for your marketing team and map out where agents can save you time at optimizely.com/exitfive. AirOps - The content engineering platform that helps marketers create and maintain high-quality, on-brand content that wins AI search. Go to airops.com/exitfive to start creating content that reflects your expertise, stays true to your brand, and is engineered for performance across human and AI discovery.Visit exitfive.com/retreat to apply for Exit Five's first-ever, in-person Marketing Leadership Retreat, March 18–20, 2026 in Scottsdale, Arizona. Join 100 CMOs and VPs of Marketing from companies like like Zoom, Snowflake, Manychat, Bitly, G2, HP, and more for two days of thinking bigger around a trusted group of peers in marketing. ***Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more
Today in the business of podcasting: Jim Salveson on sports podcasting's powers, CMOs discuss 2026 priorities, podcasts on the living room screen, podcast live shows are pulling in the big bucks (and new audiences for venues), and Meta beefs up podcast promo capabilities on Threads. Find links to every article covered by heading to the Download section of SoundsProfitable.com, or by clicking here to go directly to today's installment.
A CMO Confidential Interview with DJ Patil, Great Point Ventures investor and former U.S. Chief Data Scientist in the Obama Administration. DJ discusses why AI adoption is "lumpy" like unbaked cake mix, the difference between large models and focused applications, and why consultants are probably not the best way to make progress. Key topics include: Maslow's Hierarchy of AI with power, data and water as the foundation; a timeline juxtaposition of AI evolution versus culture and policy change; and his belief that marketers have a unique position to add "human connectivity" in to the mix. Tune in to hear a view on AI and health care as well as how Waymo almost ruined a date night. What does AI adoption *really* look like inside large organizations—and why does it feel so uneven?In this episode of **CMO Confidential**, host **Mike Linton** sits down with **DJ Patil**—former U.S. Chief Data Scientist, AI leader at eBay and LinkedIn, and longtime advisor and investor—for a clear-eyed update from the front lines of AI.DJ explains why AI progress feels “lumpy,” why culture—not technology—is the biggest blocker to ROI, and what boards, CEOs, and CMOs must do now to avoid falling behind. From autonomous warfare and small models to Wall Street hype cycles, job displacement, and what AI means for the future of marketing, this is a practical, executive-level conversation about what's real, what's noise, and what comes next.If you lead a company, manage a brand, sit on a board, or are building a career in marketing, this episode will recalibrate how you think about AI adoption, investment, and organizational change.
In this episode of The Fractional CMO Show, Casey tackles the question every fractional CMO is asking: Which AI tools should I be using? But his answer isn't what you'd expect. Casey admits he spent 14 months considering ditching fractional work entirely to chase the AI gold rush. Instead, he doubled down on something old-fashioned: actually knowing how to do the work. He shares war stories of letting Claude write a client report that turned out mediocre, and the AI-generated voiceover that everyone hated - until his experience proved it doubled results. The truth? AI won't fix bad fundamentals. If you can't write persuasive copy yourself or don't understand how ads actually work, ChatGPT will just help you produce garbage faster. Learn the craft first, then use AI to speed up what you already know how to do right. Key Topics Covered: -Be a Renaissance man/woman first: Understand copywriting, design fundamentals, how ads actually work before touching AI -Study the masters: Gary Halbert, John Carlton, Paris Lampropoulos, David Deutsch - learn persuasive copy from the greats -AI can't replace taste, discernment, and experience: These three things are what clients actually pay you for -Do it manually first, then use AI to scale: Write the ad yourself, make it work, then prompt AI for 50 variations -His actual AI stack: ChatGPT and Claude for writing, Eleven Labs for voiceovers, Lovable/Bolt for quick web mockups -Don't outsource critical thinking: AI note-takers and automation rob you of the skills that make you valuable
Today in the business of podcasting: Jim Salveson on sports podcasting's powers, CMOs discuss 2026 priorities, podcasts on the living room screen, podcast live shows are pulling in the big bucks (and new audiences for venues), and Meta beefs up podcast promo capabilities on Threads. Find links to every article covered by heading to the Download section of SoundsProfitable.com, or by clicking here to go directly to today's installment.
#318 | Dave is joined by Kieran Flanagan, SVP of Marketing at HubSpot and former CMO at Zapier. They break down how AI is reshaping B2B marketing workflows, content creation, and team structure, plus Kieran's leadership philosophy for managing a 300+ person team while staying deeply involved in creative execution. This episode offers a clear look at how AI is changing the game and how B2B marketers can stay creative, strategic, and indispensable in the process.Timestamps(00:00) - – Intro + why AI matters now (04:28) - – Kieran's career + the 2-year mission framework (09:58) - – The grind, early-career advice, and earning your stripes (12:28) - – Operator vs. manager + strong opinions in leadership (20:28) - – Why collaborative brainstorms fail (25:28) - – ChatGPT vs. Claude + how Kieran actually uses AI (33:16) - – Where AI is taking B2B marketing (answers → actions) (44:46) - – Picking a lane: technical vs. creative marketers (52:16) - – The future CMO + agencies, in-person, and what still matters Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterLearn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/***Brought to you by:Optimizely - A no-code AI platform where autonomous agents execute marketing work across webpages, email, SEO, and campaigns. Get a free, personalized 45-minute AI workshop to help you identify the best AI use cases for your marketing team and map out where agents can save you time at optimizely.com/exitfive. AirOps - The content engineering platform that helps marketers create and maintain high-quality, on-brand content that wins AI search. Go to airops.com/exitfive to start creating content that reflects your expertise, stays true to your brand, and is engineered for performance across human and AI discovery.Visit exitfive.com/retreat to apply for Exit Five's first-ever, in-person Marketing Leadership Retreat, March 18–20, 2026 in Scottsdale, Arizona. Join 100 CMOs and VPs of Marketing from companies like like Zoom, Snowflake, Manychat, Bitly, G2, HP, and more for two days of thinking bigger around a trusted group of peers in marketing. ***Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more
Renegade Thinkers Unite: #2 Podcast for CMOs & B2B Marketers
Events sit at the crossroads of joy and heartburn for B2B marketers. The magic of getting customers together in real life is real, and so is the pain when sales skips the pre-work and ROI gets fuzzy. With every dollar under scrutiny, CMOs are treating events as strategic bets that have to earn their spot on the plan. In this episode, Drew talks with Charles Groome (Insightful), Jamie Gier, and Lorie Coulombe (Equity Shift) about how they decide which events to do, design experiences people remember, and turn field time into pipeline. They cover event portfolios, sales pre-work, and the simple tools that keep everyone aligned before, during, and after the show. In this episode: Charles sorts events into three buckets, leans into a listening circuit with smaller meetups, and looks at target-account impact to decide where bigger bets belong. Jamie frames events around getting discovered, creating memorable experiences, and driving deals, with customers on stage and pods focused on key accounts. Lorie sets clear goals for each event, does deep homework on audiences and geographies, and locks in sales pre-work and follow-up expectations. Plus: Build an event portfolio that blends big shows, listening trips, CABs, and customer moments. Use themes, news hooks, and customer voices to stand out in crowded halls and drive recall. Align sales and marketing via pods, shared KPIs, and simple scoreboards. Tighten spend with regional focus, partner co-hosting, and clear criteria. If events are on your 2026 budget and you want them to pay in pipeline, this episode will help you pick, plan, and prove them with more confidence. For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcasts/ To learn more about CMO Huddles, visit https://cmohuddles.com/
Welcome to a very special CMO Whisperer at CES episode. This is the first in a series of conversations we're recording before, during, and after CES to give CMOs practical perspective on what matters most right now and what's coming next. Today, I'm joined by Cort Irish, Head of Marketing at Claritas. Claritas works with agencies like Publicis, Horizon, and Dentsu. Brands including Walgreens, Verizon and GM and partners across media and data like Amazon, Comcast and Adobe. Claritas is graciously supporting this entire CES series, helping make these conversations possible so CMOs can hear directly from peers and partners throughout the week. Welcome to the show!
#317 | Dave hosts a live session with Dasha Shakov (Head of Marketing, Proton.ai), Emeric Ernoult (Founder, CEO, Agorapulse), and Finn Thormeier (Founder, Project 33) to break down what's working on LinkedIn right now. They discuss why LinkedIn is the most important channel for B2B, why social media is the best marketing channel available today, how founder-led and employee content drives growth, and what's changed about how people use the platform over the last five years. The group also gets into LinkedIn's thought leader ads, thoughts on measuring results when attribution is messy, and how to sell LinkedIn's value to leadership and convince them to spend time there. It's a look into how B2B teams can earn attention, build credibility, and make LinkedIn a massive growth channel in 2026.Timestamps(00:56) - – Why LinkedIn is still Dave's favorite B2B channel (05:01) - – Panel intros: Dasha, Finn, Emeric (07:25) - – Why LinkedIn changed and why it matters now (09:34) - – “Our buyers aren't on LinkedIn” is mostly wrong (12:26) - – Who should post: CEO, team, or company page (16:47) - – Why promo posts flop (and why that's okay) (21:44) - – What to actually post when starting from zero (38:13) - – Why thought leader ads outperform everything else Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterLearn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/***Brought to you by:Optimizely - A no-code AI platform where autonomous agents execute marketing work across webpages, email, SEO, and campaigns. Get a free, personalized 45-minute AI workshop to help you identify the best AI use cases for your marketing team and map out where agents can save you time at optimizely.com/exitfive. AirOps - The content engineering platform that helps marketers create and maintain high-quality, on-brand content that wins AI search. Go to airops.com/exitfive to start creating content that reflects your expertise, stays true to your brand, and is engineered for performance across human and AI discovery.Visit exitfive.com/retreat to apply for Exit Five's first-ever, in-person Marketing Leadership Retreat, March 18–20, 2026 in Scottsdale, Arizona. Join 100 CMOs and VPs of Marketing from companies like like Zoom, Snowflake, Manychat, Bitly, G2, HP, and more for two days of thinking bigger around a trusted group of peers in marketing. ***Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more
Hear from Jill Wiltfong, CMO, Korn Ferry, Chris Bontempo, CMO, Johnson Controls, Shannon Sullivan Duffy, CMO, Asana, and Melton Littlepage, CMO, 1Password on their uncuttable budget items. Timestamps: (01:19) Jill Wiltfong, CMO, Korn Ferry,(08:03) Chris Bontempo, CMO, Johnson Controls(23:12) Shannon Sullivan Duffy, CMO, Asana(28:10) Melton Littlepage, CMO, 1Password Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
A CMO Confidential interview with Dick Satterfield, the founder of Satterfield Rezenbrink Search and former P&G sales leader. Dick discusses career management under the framework of "successful and happy" and outlines why you should constantly be thinking about and evaluating your career. Key topics include why career progression is defined as continuous learning and getting promoted, tips for networking, when is too early or too late to leave, and why counter offers almost always fail . Listen in to hear why you should view the "next job" as a stepping stone versus the perfect landing. Dick Satterfield, veteran executive recruiter and former P&G sales leader, breaks down when to leave, how to create real options, and what it takes to land (and succeed in) your next role. We cover the “successful and happy” framework, real vs. faux promotions, how to run a stealth search while employed, the truth about counteroffers, and why marketers must present as business leaders driving revenue and efficiency. Practical, no-nonsense advice for CMOs, aspiring CMOs, and any exec managing a high-stakes career. Chapters00:00 Intro: CMO Confidential + today's topic00:00:43 Meet Dick Satterfield + why this conversation matters00:02:11 Framework: “Are you successful and happy?”00:03:39 What recruiters really scan first: promotions and scope00:05:38 Real vs. “quasi-fake” promotions (one direct report ≠ management)00:05:59 Could I leave? Too early vs. too late; the commuting rule of 300:08:12 Knowing when your learning curve has flattened00:10:24 Would I leave? How to search while employed (and build leverage)00:12:25 Target list → warm intros → the right recruiters00:14:31 Time management for the search (30 minutes a day)00:15:14 If you're in transition: process, momentum, and managing home life00:17:21 Offers: optimize for where you're most likely to succeed00:19:31 Interview the company: decision speed and what success looks like00:21:00 Counteroffers: why ~85% don't stick00:22:38 Negotiating severance (and when it actually gets set)00:24:00 Biggest career mistake: not managing your career like a project00:25:00 For marketers: be a business leader, not “just” marketing00:26:13 Practical closer: return recruiter calls—before you need them00:26:55 WrapTagsCMO Confidential,Mike Linton,Dick Satterfield,executive search,career management,career strategy,CMO career,marketing leadership,job search,career progression,promotions,scope of responsibility,learning curve,commuting rules,hybrid work,networking,warm introductions,recruiters,retained search,counteroffers,severance negotiation,compensation,offer negotiation,interview tips,decision rights,success metrics,marketing as investment,top line growth,cost efficiency,business leader,P&G,Procter & Gamble,board ready,executive transitions,VP marketing,chief marketing officer,senior leadership,career mistakes,practical adviceSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
In this bonus episode of The Fractional CMO Show, Casey opens up a raw coaching call with people who aren't fractional CMOs yet—but want to be. These are agency owners tired of the hamster wheel, strategists stuck doing execution, and full-time employees wondering if this fractional thing is actually real. John is worried about getting pulled into grunt work. Laura thinks she needs a bigger title before she's "qualified enough." Beth is stuck in small-town Iowa wondering how to build a sales funnel. Angela keeps getting asked for small projects when she wants to sell the big vision. Casey coaches through each scenario in real-time, cutting through the mental blocks that keep people from winning their first client. The truth? You're already qualified. Geography doesn't matter. One client at $5K/month will completely shift how you see what's possible. Key Topics Covered: -First month delivers strategy ($10K-$12K), then transition to $10K/month engaged or $4K/month advisor ongoing -Tell clients immediately you work with marketing talent (20-40 hrs/week), not as the talent -Stop waiting for permission, another title, or more experience—you have enough today -Geography is irrelevant: Cold email, LinkedIn content, becoming the online expert—that's how you win -Ask curious questions, don't pitch: "Where are you? Where do you want to be? What's working?" Let them chase you -Fixed pricing only: Monthly retainer, no projects. When they ask for project pricing: "That's not for me. I do fixed fees." -Own the 2-year vision: Zoom out from small projects to the destination, then chunk it into campaigns they can't execute without you
As you look ahead to 2026, what's rising to the top of your marketing priorities? In this special episode of Growth Talks with Krystina Rubino, we highlight our favorite CMO insights on building brands that customers trust and love. It's packed with insights on subjects all CMOs should be thinking about today, such as brand versus performance marketing, incorporating AI into your marketing strategy, and how to build and enable your team.
Welcome back to the Ultimate Guide to Partnering® Podcast. AI agents are your next customers. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ https://youtu.be/vEdq8rpBM3I In this data-rich keynote, Jay McBain deconstructs the tectonic shifts reshaping the $5.3 trillion global technology industry, arguing that we are entering a new 20-year cycle where traditional direct sales models are obsolete. McBain explains why 96% of the industry is now surrounded by partners and how successful companies must pivot from “flywheels and theory” to a granular strategy focused on the seven specific partners present in every deal. From the explosion of agentic AI and the $163 billion marketplace revolution to the specific mechanics of multiplier economics, this discussion provides a roadmap for navigating the “decade of the ecosystem” where influence, trust, and integration—not just product—determine winners and losers. Key Takeaways Half of today's Fortune 500 companies will likely vanish in the next 20 years due to the shift toward AI and ecosystem-led models. Every B2B deal now involves an average of seven trusted partners who influence the decision before a vendor even knows a deal exists. Microsoft has outpaced AWS growth for 26 consecutive quarters largely because of a superior partner-led geographic strategy. Marketplaces are projected to grow to $163 billion by 2030, with nearly 60% of deals involving partner funding or private offers. The “Multiplier Effect” is the new ROI, where partners can make up to $8.45 for every dollar of vendor product sold. Future dominance relies on five key pillars: Platform, Service Partnerships, Channel Partnerships, Alliances, and Go-to-Market orchestration. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Keywords: Jay McBain, Canalys, partner ecosystem, channel chief, agentic AI, marketplace growth, multiplier economics, B2B sales trends, tech industry forecast, service partnerships, strategic alliances, Microsoft vs AWS, distribution transformation, managed services growth, SaaS platforms, customer journey mapping, 28 moments of truth, future of reselling, technology spending 2025, ecosystem orchestration, partner multipliers. T Transcript: Jay McBain WORKFILE FOR TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Vince Menzione: Just up from, did you Puerto Rico last night? Puerto Rico, yes. Puerto Rico. He dodged the hurricane. Um, you all know him. Uh, let him introduce himself for those of you who don’t, but just thrilled to have on the stage, again, somebody who knows more about what’s going on in, in the, and has the pulse on this industry probably than just about anybody I know personally. [00:00:21] Vince Menzione: J Jay McBain. Jay, great to see you my friend. Alright, thank you. We have to come all the way. We live, we live uh, about 20 minutes from each other. We have to come all the way to Reston, Virginia to see each other, right? That’s right. Very good. Well, uh, that’s all over to you, sir. Thank you. [00:00:35] Jay McBain: Alright, well thank you so much. [00:00:36] Jay McBain: I went from 85 degrees yesterday to 45 today, but I was able to dodge that, uh, that hurricane, uh, that we kind of had to fly through the northern edge of, uh, wanna talk today about our industry, about the ultimate partner. I’m gonna try to frame up the ultimate partner as I walk through the data and the latest research that, uh, that we’ve been doing in the market. [00:00:56] Jay McBain: But I wanted to start here ’cause our industry moves in 20 year cycles, and if you look at the Fortune 500 and dial back 20 years from today, 52% of them no longer exist. As we step into the next 20 year AI era, half of the companies that we know and love today are not gonna exist. So we look at this, and by the way, if you’re not in the Fortune 500 and you don’t have deep pockets to buy your way outta problems, 71% of tech companies fail over the course of 10 years. [00:01:30] Jay McBain: Those are statistics from the US government. So I start to look at our industry and you know, you may look at the, you know, mainframe era from the sixties and seventies, mini computers, August the 12th, 1981, that first IBM, PC with Microsoft dos, version one, you know, triggered. A new 20 year era of client server. [00:01:51] Jay McBain: It was the time and I worked at IBM for 17 years, but there was a time where Bill Gates flew into Boca Raton, Florida and met with the IBM team and did that, you know, fancy licensing agreement. But after, you know, 20 years of being the most valuable company in the world and 13 years of antitrust and getting broken up, almost like at and TIBM almost didn’t make payroll. [00:02:14] Jay McBain: 13 years after meeting Bill Gates. Yeah, that’s how quickly things change in these eras. In 1999, a small company outta San Francisco called salesforce.com got its start. About 10 years later, Jeff Bezos asked a question in a boardroom, could we rent out our excess capacity and would other companies buy it? [00:02:35] Jay McBain: Which, you know, most people in the room laughed at ’em at the time. But it created a 20 year cloud era when our friends, our neighbors, our family. Saw Chachi PT for the first time in March of 2023. They saw the deep fakes, they saw the poetry, they saw the music. They came to us as tech people and said, did we just light up Skynet? [00:02:58] Jay McBain: And that consumer trend has triggered this next 20 years. I could walk through the richest people in the world through those trends. I could walk through the most valuable companies. It all aligns. ’cause by the way, Apple’s no longer at the top. Nvidia is at the top, Microsoft. Second, things change really quickly. [00:03:17] Jay McBain: So in that course of time, you start to look at our industry and as people are talking about a six and a half or $7 trillion build out of ai, that’s open AI and Microsoft numbers, that is bigger than our industry that’s taken over 50 years to build. This year, we’re gonna finish the year at $5.3 trillion. [00:03:36] Jay McBain: That’s from the smallest flower shop to the biggest bank. Biggest governments that Caresoft would, uh, serve biggest customer in the world is actually the federal government of the us. But you look at this pie chart and you look at the changes that we’re gonna go through over the next 20 years, there’s about a trillion dollars in hardware. [00:03:54] Jay McBain: There’s about a trillion dollars in software. If you look forward through all of the merging trends, quantum computing, humanoid robots, all the things that are coming that dollar to dollar software to hardware will continue to exist all the way through. We see services making up almost two thirds of this pie. [00:04:13] Jay McBain: Yesterday I was in a telco conference with at and t and Verizon and T-Mobile and some of the biggest wireless players and IT services, which happen to be growing faster than products. At the moment, there is more work to be done wrapping around the deal than the actual products that the customer is buying. [00:04:32] Jay McBain: So in an industry that’s growing at 7%. On top of the world economy that’s grown at 2.2. This is the fastest growing industry, and it will be at least for the next 10 years, if not 2070 0.1% of this entire $5 trillion gets transacted through partners. While what we’re talking to today about the ultimate partner, 96% of this industry is surrounded by partners in one way or another. [00:05:01] Jay McBain: They’re there before the deal. They’re there at the deal. They’re there after the deal. Two thirds of our industry is now subscription consumption based. So every 30 days forever, and a customer for life becomes everything. So if every deal in medium, mid-market, and higher has seven partners, according to McKinsey, who are those seven people trying to get into the deal? [00:05:25] Jay McBain: While there’s millions of companies that have come into tech over the last 10 to 20 years. Digital agencies, accountants, legal firms, everybody’s come in. The 250,000 SaaS companies, a million emerging tech companies, there’s a big fight to be one of those seven trusted people at the table. So millions of companies and tens of millions of people our competing for these slots. [00:05:49] Jay McBain: So one of the pieces of research I’m most proud of, uh, in my analyst career is this. And this took over two years to build. It’s a lot of logos. Not this PowerPoint slide, but the actual data. Thousands of people hours. Because guess what? When you look at partners from the top down, the top 1000 partners, by capability and capacity, not by resale. [00:06:15] Jay McBain: It’s not a ranking of CDW and insight and resale numbers. It is the surrounding. Consulting, design, architecture, implementations, integrations, managed services, all the pieces that’s gonna make the next 20 years run. So when you start to look at this, 98% of these companies are private, so very difficult to get to those numbers and, uh, a ton of research and help from AI and other things to get this. [00:06:41] Jay McBain: But this is it. And if you look at this list, there’s a thousand logos out of the million companies. There’s a thousand logos that drive two thirds of all tech services in the world. $1.07 trillion gets delivered by a thousand companies, but here’s where it gets fun. Those companies in the middle, in blue, the 30 of them deliver more tech services than the next 970. [00:07:08] Jay McBain: Combined the 970 combined in white deliver more tech services. Then the next million combined. So if you think we live in an 80 20 rule or maybe a 99, a 95 5 rule, or a 99 1 rule, we actually live in a 99.9 0.1 parallel principle. These companies spread around the world evenly split across the uh, different regions. [00:07:35] Jay McBain: South Africa, Latin America, they’re all over. They split. They split among types. All of the Venn diagram I just showed from GSIs to VARs to MSPs, to agencies and other types of companies. But this is a really rich list and it’s public. So every company in the world now, if you’re looking at Transactable data, if you’re looking at quantifiable data that you can go put your revenue numbers against, it represents 70 to 80% of every company in this room’s Tam. [00:08:08] Jay McBain: In one piece of research. So what do you do below that? How do you cover a million companies that you can’t afford to put a channel account manager? You can’t afford to write programs directly for well after the top down analysis and all the wallet share and you know exactly where the lowest hanging fruit is for most of your tam. [00:08:28] Jay McBain: The available markets. The obtainable markets. You gotta start from the community level grassroots up. So you need to ask the question for the million companies and the maybe a hundred thousand companies out there, partner companies that are surrounding your customer. These are the seven partners that surround your customer. [00:08:48] Jay McBain: What do they read, where do they go, and who do they follow? Interestingly enough, our industry globally equates to only a thousand watering holes, a thousand companies at the top, a thousand places at the bottom. 35% of this audience we’re talking. Millions of people here love events and there’s 352 of them like this one that they love to go to. [00:09:13] Jay McBain: They love the hallway chats, they love the hotel lobby bar, you know, in a time reminded by the pandemic. They love to be in person. It’s the number one way they’re influenced. So if you don’t have a solid event strategy and you don’t have a community team out giving out socks every week, your competitors might beat you. [00:09:31] Jay McBain: 12% of this audience loves podcasts. It’s the Joe Rogan effect of our industry. And while you know, you may not think the 121 podcasts out there are important, well, you’re missing 12% of your audience. It’s over a million people. If you’re not on a weekly podcast in one of these podcasts in the world, there’s still people that read one of the 106 magazines in the world. [00:09:55] Jay McBain: There are people that love peer groups, associations, they wanna be part of this. There’s 15 different ways people are influenced. And a solid grassroots strategy is how you make this happen. In the last 10 years, we’ve created a number of billionaires. Bottom up. They never had to go talk to la large enterprise. [00:10:15] Jay McBain: They never had to go build out a mid-market strategy. They just went and give away socks and new community marketing. And this has created, I could rip through a bunch of names that became unicorns just in the last couple of years, bottoms up. You go back to your board walking into next year, top down, bottom up. [00:10:34] Jay McBain: You’ve covered a hundred percent of your tam, and now you’ve covered it with names, faces, and places. You haven’t covered it with a flywheel or a theory. And for 44 years, we have gone to our board every fourth quarter with flywheels and theory. Trust me, partners are important. The channel is key to us. [00:10:57] Jay McBain: Well, let’s talk at the point of this granularity, and now we’re getting supported by technology 261 entrepreneurs. Many of them in the room actually here that are driving this ability to succeed with seven partners in every deal to exchange data to be able to exchange telemetry of these prospects to be able to see twice or three times in terms of pipeline of your target addressable market. [00:11:26] Jay McBain: All these ai, um, technologies, agentic technologies are coming into this. It’s all about data. It’s all about quantifiable names, faces, and places. Now none of us should be walking around with flywheels, so let’s flip the flywheels. No. Uh, so we also look at, and I sold PCs for 17 years and that was in the high times of 40% margins for partners. [00:11:55] Jay McBain: But one interesting thing when you study the p and l for broad base of partners around the world, it’s changed pretty significantly in this last 20 year era. What the cloud era did is dropped hardware from what used to be 84% plus the break fix and things that wrap around it of the p and l to now 16% of every partner in the world. [00:12:16] Jay McBain: 84% of their p and l is now software and services. And if you look at profitability, it’s worse. It’s actually 87% is profitability wise. They’ve completely shifted in terms of where they go. Now we look at other parts of our market. I could go through every part of the pie of the slide, but we’re watching each of the companies, and if you can see here, this is what we want to talk about in terms of ultimate partner. [00:12:43] Jay McBain: Microsoft has outgrown AWS for 26 straight quarters. They don’t have a better product. They don’t have a better price, they don’t have better promotion. It’s all place. And I’ll explain why you guess here in the light green line. Exactly. The day that Google went a hundred percent all in partner, every deal, even if a deal didn’t have a partner, one of the 4% of deals that didn’t have a partner, they injected a partner. [00:13:09] Jay McBain: You can see on the left side exactly where they did it. They got to the point of a hundred percent partner driven. Rebuilt their programs, rebuilt their marketplace. Their marketplace is actually larger than Microsoft’s, and they grew faster than Microsoft. A couple of those quarters. It is a partner driven future, and now I have Oracle, which I just walked by as I walked from the hotel. [00:13:31] Jay McBain: Oracle with their RPOs will start to join. Maybe the list of three hyperscalers becomes the list of four in future slides, but that’s a growth slide. Market share is different. AWS early and commanding lead. And it plays out, uh, plays out this way. But we’re at an interesting moment and I stood up six years ago talking about the decade of the ecosystem after we went through a decade of sales starting in 1999 when we all thought we were born to be salespeople. [00:14:02] Jay McBain: We managed territories with our gut. The sales tech stack would have it different, that sales was a science, and we ended the decade 2009, looking at sales very differently in 2009. I remember being at cocktail parties where CMOs would be joking around that 50% of their marketing dollars were wasted. They just didn’t know which 50%. [00:14:23] Jay McBain: And I’ll tell you, that was really funny. In 2009 till every 58-year-old CMO got replaced by a 38-year-old growth hacker who walked in with 15,348 SaaS companies in their MarTech and ad tech stack to solve the problem, every nickel of marketing by 2019 was tracked. Marketo, Eloqua, Pardot, HubSpot, driving this industry. [00:14:50] Jay McBain: Now, we stood up and said the 28 moments that come before a sale are pretty much all partner driven. In the best case scenario, a vendor might see four of the moments. They might come to your website, maybe they read an ebook, maybe they have a salesperson or a demo that comes in. That’s four outta 28 moments. [00:15:10] Jay McBain: The other 24 are done by partners. Yeah, in the worst case scenario and the majority scenario, you don’t see any of the moments. All 28 happen and you lose a deal without knowing there ever was a deal. So this is it. We need to partner in these moments and we need to inject partners into sales and marketing, like no time before, and this was the time to do it. [00:15:33] Jay McBain: And we got some feedback in the Salesforce state of sales report, which doesn’t involve any partnerships or, or. Channel Chiefs or anything else. This is 5,500 of the biggest CROs in the world that obviously use Salesforce. 89% of salespeople today use partners every day. For the 11% who don’t, 58% plan two within a year. [00:15:57] Jay McBain: If you add those two numbers together, that’s magically the 96% number. They recognize that every deal has partners in it. In 2024, last year, half of the salespeople in the world, every industry, every country. Miss their numbers. For the minority who made their numbers, 84 point percent pointed to partners as the reason why they made their numbers. [00:16:21] Jay McBain: It was the cheat code for sales, so that modern salesperson that knows how to orchestrate a deal, orchestrate the 28 moments with the seven partners and get to that final spot is the winning formula. HubSpot’s number in separate research was 84% in marketing. So we’re starting to see partners in here. We don’t have to shout from the mountaintops. [00:16:44] Jay McBain: These communities like ultimate Partner are working and we’re getting this to the highest levels in the board. And I’ll say that, you know, when 20 years from now half of the companies we know and love fail after we’re done writing the book and blaming the CEO for inventing the thing that ended up killing them, blaming the board for fiduciary responsibility and letting it happen. [00:17:06] Jay McBain: What are the other chapters of the book? And I think it’s all in one slide. We are in this platform economy and the. [00:17:31] Jay McBain: So your battery’s fine. Check, check, check, check. Alright, I’ll, I’ll just hold this in case, but the companies that execute on all five of these areas, well. Not only today become the trillion dollar valued companies, but they become the companies of tomorrow. These will be the fastest growing companies at every level. [00:17:50] Jay McBain: Not only running a platform business, but participating in other platforms. So this is how it breaks out, and there are people at very senior levels, at very big companies that have this now posted in the office of the CEO winning on integrations is everything. We just went through a demographic shift this year where 51% of our buyers are born after 1982. [00:18:15] Jay McBain: Millennials are the number one buyer of the $5 trillion. Their number one buying criteria is not service. Support your price, your brand reputation, it’s integrations. The buy a product, 80% is good as the next one if it works better in their environment. 79% of us won’t buy a car unless it has CarPlay or Android Auto. [00:18:34] Jay McBain: This is an integration world. The company with the most integrations win. Second, there are seven partners that surround the customer. Highly trusted partners. We’re talking, coaching the customer’s, kids soccer team, having a cottage together up at the lake. You know, best men, bate of honors at weddings type of relationships. [00:18:57] Jay McBain: You can’t maybe have all seven, but how does Microsoft beat AWS? They might have had two, three, or four of them saying nice things about them instead of the competition. Winning in service partnerships and channel partnerships changes by category. If you’re selling MarTech, only 10% of it today is resold, so you build more on service partnerships. [00:19:18] Jay McBain: If you’re in cybersecurity today, 91.6% of it is resold. Transacted through partners. So you build a lot of channel partnerships, plus the service partnerships, whatever the mix is in your category, you have to have two or three of those seven people. Saying nice things about you at every stage of the customer journey. [00:19:38] Jay McBain: Now move over to alliances. We have already built the platforms at the hyperscale level. We’ve built the platforms within SaaS, Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, Marketo, NetSuite, HubSpot. Every buyer has a set of platforms that they buy. We’ve now built them in cybersecurity this year out of 6,500 as high as cyber companies, the top five are starting to separate. [00:20:02] Jay McBain: We built it in distribution, which I’ll show in a minute. We’re building it in Telco. This is a platform economy and alliances win and you have alliances with your competitors ’cause you compete in the morning, but you’re best friends by the afternoon. Winning in other platforms is just as important as driving your own. [00:20:20] Jay McBain: And probably the most important part of this is go to market. That sales, that marketing, the 28 moments, the every 30 days forever become all a partner strategy. So there’s still CEOs out there that believe platform is a UI or UX on a bunch of disparate products and things you’ve acquired. There’s still CFOs out there that Think platform is a pricing model, a bundle model of just getting everything under one, you know, subscription price or consumption price. [00:20:51] Jay McBain: And it’s not, platforms are synonymous with partnerships. This is the way forward and there’s no conversation around ai. That doesn’t involve Nvidia over there, an open AI over here and a hyperscaler over there and a SaaS company over here. The seven layer stack wins every single time, and the companies that get this will be the ones that survive this cycle. [00:21:16] Jay McBain: Now, flipping over to marketplaces. So we had written research that, um, about five years ago that marketplaces were going to grow at 82% compounded. Yeah, probably one of the most accurate predictions we ever made, because it happened, we, we predicted that, uh, we were gonna get up to about $85 billion. Well, now we’ve extended that to 2030, so we’re gonna get up to $163 billion, and the thing that we’re watching is in green. [00:21:46] Jay McBain: If 96% of these deals are partner assisted in some way, how is the economics of partnering going to work? We predicted that 50% of deals by 2027. Would be partner funded in some way. Private offers multi-partner offers distributor sellers of record, and now that extends to 59% by 2030, the most senior leader of the biggest marketplace AWS, just said to us they’re gonna probably make these numbers on their own. [00:22:14] Jay McBain: And he asked what their two competitors are doing. So he’s telling us that we under called this. Now when you look at each of the press releases, and this is the AWS Billion Dollar Club. Every one of the companies on the left have issued a press release that they’re in the billion dollar club. Some of them are in the multi-billions, but I want you to double click on this press release. [00:22:35] Jay McBain: I’m quoted in here somewhere, but as CrowdStrike is building the marketplace at 91% compounded, they’re almost doubling their revenue every single year. They’re growing the partner funding, in this case, distributor funding by 3548%. Almost triple digit growth in marketplace is translating into almost quadruple digit growth in funding. [00:23:01] Jay McBain: And you see that over and over again as, as Splunk hit three, uh, billion dollars. The same. Salesforce hit $2 billion on AWS in Ulti, 18 months. They joined in October 20, 23, and 18 months later, they’re already at $2 billion. But now you’re seeing at Salesforce, which by the way. Grew up to $40 billion in revenue direct, almost not a nickel in resell. [00:23:28] Jay McBain: Made it really difficult for VARs and managed service providers to work with Salesforce because they couldn’t understand how to add services to something they didn’t book the revenue for. While $40 billion companies now seeing 70% of their deals come through partners. So this is just the world that we’re in. [00:23:44] Jay McBain: It doesn’t matter who you are and what industry you’re in, this takes place. But now we’re starting to see for the first time. Partners join the billion dollar club. So you wonder about partnering and all this funding and everything that’s working through Now you’re seeing press releases and companies that are redoing their LinkedIn branding about joining this illustrious club without a product to sell and all the services that wrap around it. [00:24:10] Jay McBain: So the opening session on Microsoft was interesting because there’s been a number of changes that Microsoft has done just in the last 30 days. One is they cut distribution by two thirds going from 180 distributors to 62. They cut out any small partner lower than a thousand dollars, and that doesn’t sound like a lot, but that’s over a hundred thousand partners that get deed tightening the long tail. [00:24:38] Jay McBain: They we’re the first to really put a global point system in place three years ago. They went to the new commerce experience. If you remember, all kinds of changes being led by. The biggest company for the channel. And so when we’re studying marketplaces, we’re not just studying the three hyperscalers, we’re studying what TD Cynic is doing with Stream One Ingram’s doing with Advant Advantage Aerosphere. [00:25:01] Jay McBain: Also, we’re watching what PAX eight, who by the way, is the 365 bestseller for Microsoft in the world. They are the cybersecurity leader for Microsoft in the world and the copilot. Leader in the world for Microsoft and Partner of the Year for Microsoft. So we’re watching what the cloud platforms are doing, watching what the Telco are doing, which is 25 cents out of every dollar, if you remember that pie chart, watching what the biggest resellers are converting themselves into. [00:25:30] Jay McBain: Vince just mentioned, you know, SHI in the changes there watching the managed services market and the leaders there, what they’re doing in terms of how this industry’s moving forward. By the way, managed services at $608 billion this year. Is one and a half times larger than the SaaS industry overall. [00:25:48] Jay McBain: It’s also one and a half times larger than all the hyperscalers combined. Oracle, Alibaba, IBM, all the way down. This is a massive market and it makes up 15 to 20 cents of every dollar the customer spend. We’re watching that industry hit a trillion dollars by the end of the decade, and we’re watching 150 different marketplace development platforms, the distribution of our industry, which today is 70.1% indirect. [00:26:13] Jay McBain: We’re starting to see that number, uh, solidify in terms of marketplaces as well. Watching distributors go from that linear warehouse in a bank to this orchestration model, watching some of the biggest players as the world comes around, platforms, it tightens around the place. So Caresoft, uh, from from here is the sixth biggest distributor in the world. [00:26:40] Jay McBain: Just shows you how big the. You know, biggest client in the world is that they serve. But understand that we’re publishing the distributor 500 list, but it’ll be the same thing. That little group in blue in the middle today, you know, drives almost two thirds of the market. So what happens in all this next stage in terms of where the dollars change hands. [00:27:07] Jay McBain: And the economics of partnering themselves are going through the most radical shift that we’ve seen ever. So back to the nineties, and, and for those of you that have been channel chiefs and running programs, we went to work every day. You know, everything’s on fire. We’re trying to check hundred boxes, trying to make our program 10% better than our competitors. [00:27:30] Jay McBain: Hey, we gotta fix our deal registration program today, and our incentives are outta whack or training programs or. You know, not where they need to be. Our certification, you know, this was the life of, uh, of a channel chief. Everybody thought we were just out drinking in the Caribbean with our best partners, but we were under the weight of this. [00:27:49] Jay McBain: But something interesting has happened is that we turned around and put the customer at the middle of our programs to say that those 28 moments in green before the sale are really, really important. And the seven partners who participate are really important. Understanding. The customer’s gonna buy a seven layer stack. [00:28:09] Jay McBain: They’re gonna buy it With these seven partners, the procurement stage is much different. The growth of marketplaces, the growth of direct in some of these areas, and then long term every 30 days forever in a managed service, implementations, integrations, how you upsell, cross-sell, enrich a deal changes. So how would you build a program that’s wrapped around the customer instead of the vendor? [00:28:35] Jay McBain: And we’re starting to hear our partners shout back to us. These are global surveys, big numbers, but over half of our partners, regardless of type, are selling consulting to their customer. Over half are designing architecting deals. A third of them are trying to be system integrators showing up at those implementation integration moments. [00:28:55] Jay McBain: Two thirds of them are doing managed services, but the shocking one here is 44% of our partners, regardless of type, are coding. They’re building agents and they’re out helping their customer at that level. So this is the modern partner that says, don’t typecast me. You may have thought of me in your program. [00:29:14] Jay McBain: You might have me slotted as a var. Well, I do 3.2 things, and if I don’t get access to those resources, if you don’t walk me to that room, I’m not gonna do them with you. You may have me as a managed service provider that’s only in the morning. By the afternoon I’m coding, and by the next morning I’m implementing and consulting. [00:29:33] Jay McBain: So again, a partner’s not a partner. That Venn diagram is a very loose one now, as every partner on there is doing 3.2 different business models. And again, they’re telling us for 43 years, they said, I want more leads this year it changed. For the first time, I want to be recognized and incentivized as more than just a cash register for you. [00:29:57] Jay McBain: I want you to recognize when I’m consulting, when I’m designing, when you’re winning deals, because of my wonderful services, by the way, we asked the follow up question, well, where should we spend our money with you? And they overwhelmingly say, in the consulting stage, you win and lose deals. Not at moment 28. [00:30:18] Jay McBain: We’re not buying a pack of gum at the gas station. This is a considered purchase. You win deals from moment 12 through 16 and I’m gonna show you a picture of that later, and they say, you better be spending your money there, or you’re not gonna win your fair share or more than your fair share of deals. [00:30:36] Jay McBain: The shocking thing about this is that Microsoft, when they went to the point system, lifted two thirds of all the money, tens of billions of dollars, and put it post-sale, and we were all scratching our heads going. Well, if the partners are asking for it there, and it seems like to beat your biggest competitors, you want to win there. [00:30:54] Jay McBain: Why would you spend the money on renewal? Well, they went to Wall Street and Goldman Sachs and the people who lift trillions of dollars of pension funds and said, if we renew deals at 108%, we become a cash machine for you. And we think that’s more valuable than a company coming out with a new cell phone in September and selling a lot of them by Christmas every year. [00:31:18] Jay McBain: The industry. And by the way, wall Street responded, Microsoft has been more valuable than Apple since. So we talk in this now multiplier language, and these are reports that we write, uh, at AMIA at canals. But talking about the partner opportunity in that customer cycle, the $6 and 40 cents you can make for every dollar of consumption, or the $7 and 5 cents you can make the $8 and 45 cents you can make. [00:31:46] Jay McBain: There’s over 24 companies speaking at this level now, and guess what? It’s not just cloud or software companies. Hardware companies are starting to speak in this language, and on January 25th, Cisco, you know, probably second to Microsoft in terms of trust built with the channel globally is moving to a full point system. [00:32:09] Jay McBain: So these are the changes that happen fast. But your QBR with your partners now less about drinking beers at the hotel lobby bar and talking dollar by dollar where these opportunities are. So if you’re doing 3.2 of these things, let’s build out a, uh, a play where you can make $3 for every dollar that we make. [00:32:28] Jay McBain: And you make that profitably. You make it in sticky, highly retained business, and that’s the model. ’cause if you make $3 for every dollar. We make, you’re gonna win Partner of the year, and if you win partner of the year, that piece of glass that you win on stage, by the time you get back to your table, you’re gonna have three offers to buy your business. [00:32:51] Jay McBain: CDW just bought a w. S’s Partner of the Year. Insight bought Google’s eight time partner of the year. Presidio bought ServiceNow’s, partner of the year over and over and over again. So I’m at Octane, I’m at CrowdStrike, I’m at all these events in Vegas every week. I’m watching these partners of the year. [00:33:05] Jay McBain: And I’m watching as the big resellers. I’m watching as the GSIs and the m and a folks are surrounding their table after, and they’re selling their businesses for SaaS level valuations. Not the one-to-one service valuation. They’re getting multiples because this is the new future of our industry. This is platform economics. [00:33:25] Jay McBain: This is winning and platforms for partners. Now, like Vince, I spent 20 minutes without talking about ai, but we have to talk about ai. So the next 20 years as it plays out is gonna play out in phases. And the first thing you know to get it out of the way. The first two years since that March of 23, has been underwhelming, to say the least. [00:33:47] Jay McBain: It’s been disappointing. All the companies that should have won the biggest in AI have been the most disappointing. It’s underperformed the s and p by a considerable amount in terms of where we are. And it goes back to this. We always overestimate the first two years, but we underestimate the first 10. [00:34:07] Jay McBain: If you wanna be the point in time person and go look at that 1983 PC or the 1995 internet or that 2007 iPhone or that whatever point in time you wanna look at, or if you want to talk about hallucinations or where chat chip ET version five is version, as opposed to where it’s going to be as it improves every six months here on in. [00:34:30] Jay McBain: But the fact of the matter is, it’s been a consumer trend. Nvidia got to be the most valuable company in the world. OpenAI was the first company to 2 billion users, uh, in that amount of speed. It’s the fastest growing product ever in history, and it’s been a consumer win this trillions of dollars to get it thrown around in the press releases. [00:34:49] Jay McBain: They’re going out every day, you know, open ai, signing up somebody new or Nvidia, investing in somebody new almost every single day in hundreds of billions of dollars. It is all happening really on the consumer side. So we got a little bit worried and said, is that 96% of surround gonna work in ag agentic ai? [00:35:10] Jay McBain: So we went and asked, and the good news is 88% of end customers are using partners to work through their ag agentic strategy. Even though they’re moving slow, they’re actually using partners. But what’s interesting from a partner perspective, and this is new research that out till 2030. This is the number one services opportunity in the entire tech or telco industry. [00:35:34] Jay McBain: 35.3% compounded growth ending at $267 billion in services. Companies are rebuilding themselves, building out practices, and getting on this train and figuring out which vendors they should hook their caboose to as those trains leave the station. But it kind of plays out like this. So in the next three to five years, we’re in this generative, moving into agentic phase. [00:36:01] Jay McBain: Every partner thinks internally first, the sales and marketing. They’re thinking about their invoicing and billing. They’re thinking about their service tickets. They’re thinking about creating a business that’s 10% better than their competitors, taking that knowledge into their customers and drive in business. [00:36:17] Jay McBain: But we understand that ag agentic AI, as it’s going to play out is not a product. A couple of years ago, we thought maybe a copilot or an agent force or something was going to be the product that everybody needed to buy, and it’s not a product, it’s gonna show up as a feature. So you go back in the history of feature ads and it’s gonna show up in software. [00:36:38] Jay McBain: So if you’re calling in SMB, maybe you’re calling on a restaurant. The restaurant isn’t gonna call OpenAI or call Microsoft or call Nvidia directly. They’re running their restaurant. And they may have chosen a platform like Toast Square, Clover, whatever iPads people are running around with, runs on a platform that does everything in their business, does staffing, does food ordering, works with Uber Eats, does everything end to end? [00:37:08] Jay McBain: They’re gonna wait to one of those platforms, dries out agent AI for them, and can run the restaurant more effectively, less human capital and more consistently, but they wait for the SaaS platform as you get larger. A hundred, 150 people. You have vice presidents. Each of those vice presidents already have a SaaS stack. [00:37:28] Jay McBain: I talked about Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, et cetera. They’ve already built that seven layer model and in some cases it’s 70 layers. But the fact is, is they’re gonna wait for those SaaS layers to deliver ag agentic to them. So this is how it’s gonna play out for the next three and a half, three to five years. [00:37:45] Jay McBain: And partners are realizing that many of them were slow to pick up SaaS ’cause they didn’t resell it. Well now to win in this next three to half, three to five years, you’re gonna have to play in this environment. When you start looking out from here, the next generation, you know, kind of five through 15 years gets interesting in more of a physical sense. [00:38:06] Jay McBain: Where I was yesterday talking about every IOT device that now is internet access, starts to get access to large language models. Every little sensor, every camera, everything that’s out there starts to get smart. But there’s a point. The first trillionaire, I believe, will be created here. Elon’s already halfway there. [00:38:24] Jay McBain: Um, but when Bill Gates thought there was gonna be a PC in every home, and IBM thought they were gonna sell 10,000 to hobbyists, that created the richest person in the world for 20 years, there will be a humanoid in every home. There’s gonna be a point in time that you’re out having drinks with your friends, and somebody’s gonna say, the early adopter of your friends is gonna say. [00:38:46] Jay McBain: I haven’t done the dishes in six weeks. I haven’t done the laundry. I haven’t made my bed. I haven’t mowed the lawn. When they say that, you’re gonna say, well, how? And they’re gonna say, well, this year I didn’t buy a new car, but I went to the car dealership and I bought this. So we’re very close to the dexterity needed. [00:39:05] Jay McBain: We’ve got the large language models. Now. The chat, GPT version 10 by then is going to make an insane, and every house is gonna have one of the. [00:39:17] Jay McBain: This is the promise of ai. It’s not humanoid robots, it’s not agents. It’s this. 99% of the world’s business data has not been trained or tuned into models yet. Again, this is the slow moving business. If you want to think about the 99% of business data, every flight we’ve all taken in this room sits on a saber system that was put in place in 1964. [00:39:43] Jay McBain: Every banking transaction, we’ve all made, every withdrawal, every deposit sits on an IBM mainframe put in place in the sixties or seventies. 83% of this data sits in cold storage at the edge. It’s not ready to be moved. It’s not cleansed, it’s not, um, indexed. It’s not in any format or sitting on any infrastructure that a large language model will be able to gobble up the data. [00:40:10] Jay McBain: None of the workflows, none of the programming on top of that data is yet ready. So this is your 10 to 20 year arc of this era that chat bot today when they cancel your flight is cute. It’s empathetic, it feels bad for you, or at least it seems to, but it can’t do anything. It can’t book you the Marriott and get you an Uber and then a 5:00 AM flight the next morning. [00:40:34] Jay McBain: It can’t do any of that. But more importantly, it doesn’t know who you are. I’ve got 53 years of flights under my belt and they, I’m the person that get me within six hours of my kids and get me a one-way Hertz rental. You know, if there’s bad weather in Miami, get me to Tampa, get me a Hertz, I’m driving home, I’m gonna make it home. [00:40:56] Jay McBain: I’m not the 5:00 AM get me a hotel person. They would know that if they picked up the flights that I’ve taken in the past. Each of us are different. When you get access to the business data and you become ag agentic, everything changes. Every industry changes because of this around the customers. When you ask about this 35% growth, working on that data, working in traditional consulting and design and implementation, working in the $7 trillion of infrastructure, storage, compute, networking, that’s gonna be around, this is a massive opportunity. [00:41:30] Jay McBain: Services are gonna continue to outgrow products. Probably for the next five to 10 years because of this, and I’m gonna finish here. So we talked a lot about quantifying names, faces, places, and I think where we failed the most as ultimate partners is underneath the tam, which every one of our CEOs knows to the decimal point underneath the TAM that our board thinks they’re chasing. [00:41:59] Jay McBain: We’ve done a very poor job. Of talking about the available markets and obtainable markets underneath it, we, we’ve shown them theory. We’ve shown them a bunch of, you know, really smart stuff, and PowerPoint slides up the wazoo, but we’ve never quantified it for them. If they wanna win, if they want to get access, if they want to double their pipeline, triple their pipeline, if they wanna start winning more deals, if they wanna win deals that are three times larger, they close two times faster. [00:42:31] Jay McBain: And they renew 15% larger. They have to get into the available and obtainable markets. So just in the last couple weeks I spoke at Cribble, I spoke at Octane, I spoke at CrowdStrike Falcon. All three of those companies at the CEO level, main stage use those exact three numbers, three x, two x, 15%. That’s the language of platforms, and they’re investing millions and millions and millions of dollars on teams. [00:42:59] Jay McBain: To go build out the Sam Andal in name spaces and places. So you’ve heard me talk about these 28 moments a lot. They’re the ones that you spend when you buy a car. Some people spend one moment and they drive to the Cadillac dealership. ’cause Larry’s been, you know, taking care of the family for 50 years. [00:43:18] Jay McBain: Some people spend 50 moments like I do, watching every YouTube video and every, you know, thing on the internet. I clear the internet cover to cover. But the fact is, is every deal averages around these 28 moments. Your customer, there’s 13 members of the buying committee today. There’s seven partners and they’re buying seven things. [00:43:37] Jay McBain: There’s 27 things orchestrating inside these 28 moments. And where and how they all take place is a story of partnering. So a couple of years ago, canals. Latin for channel was acquired by amia, which is a part of Informa Tech Target, which is majority owned by Informa. All that being said, there’s hundreds of magazines that we have. [00:44:00] Jay McBain: There’s hundreds of events that we run. If somebody’s buying cybersecurity, they probably went to Black Hat or they probably went to GI Tech. One of these events we run, or one of the magazines. So we pick up these signals, these buyer intent signals as a company. Why did they wanna, um, buy a, uh, a Canals, which was a, you know, a small analyst firm around channels? [00:44:22] Jay McBain: They understood this as well. The 28 moments look a lot like this when marketers and salespeople are busy filling in the spots of every deal. And by the way, this is a real deal. AstraZeneca came in to spend millions of dollars on ASAP transformation, and you can start to see as the customer got smart. [00:44:45] Jay McBain: The eBooks, they read the podcasts, they listened to the events they went to. You start to see how this played out over the long term. But the thing we’ve never had in our industry is the light blue boxes. This deal was won and lost in December. In this particular case, NTT software won and Yash came in and sold the customer five projects. [00:45:07] Jay McBain: The millions of dollars that were going to be spent were solved here. The design and architecture work was all done here. A couple of ISVs You see in light blue came in right at the end, deal was closed in April. You see the six month cycle. But what if you could fill in every one of the 28 boxes in every single customer prospect that your sales and marketing team have? [00:45:30] Jay McBain: But here’s the brilliance of this. Those light blue boxes didn’t win the deals there. They won the deals months before that. So when NTT and Software one walked into this deal. They probably won the deal back in October and they had to go through the redlining. They had to go through the contracting, they had to go through all the stuff and the Gantt chart to get started. [00:45:54] Jay McBain: But while your CMO is getting all excited about somebody reading an ebook and triggering an MQL that the sales team doesn’t want, ’cause it’s not qualified, it’s not sales qualified, you walk in and say, no, no. This is a multimillion deal, dollar deal. It’s AstraZeneca. I know the five partners that are coming in in December to solidify the seven layers, and you’re walking in at the same time as the CMOs bragging about an ebook. [00:46:21] Jay McBain: This changes everything. If we could get to this level of data about every dollar of our tam, we not only outgrow our competitors, we become the platforms of the next generation. Partnering and ultimate partnering is all here. And this is what we’re doing in this room. This is what we’re doing over these couple of days, and this is what, uh, the mission that Vince is leading. [00:46:43] Jay McBain: Thank you so much. [00:46:47] Vince Menzione: Woo. Day in the house. Good to see you my friend. Good to see you. Oh, we’re gonna spend a couple minutes. Um, I’m put you in the second seat. We’re gonna put, we’re gonna make it sit fireside for a minute. Uh, that was intense. It was pretty incredible actually, Jay. And so I’m, I think I wanna open it up ’cause we only have a few minutes just to, any questions? [00:47:06] Vince Menzione: I’m sure people are just digesting. We already have one up here. See, [00:47:09] Question: Jay knows I’m [00:47:10] Vince Menzione: a question. I love it. We, I don’t think we have any I can grab a mic, a roving mic. I could be a roving mic person. Hold on. We can do this. This is not on. [00:47:25] Vince Menzione: Test, test. Yes it is. Yeah. [00:47:26] Question: Theresa Carriol dared me to ask a question and I say, you don’t have to dare me. You know, I’m going to Anyway. Um, so Jay, of the point of view that with all of the new AI players that strategic alliances is again having a moment, and I was curious your point of view on what you’re seeing around this emergence and trend of strategic alliances and strategic alliance management. [00:47:52] Question: As compared to channel management. And what are you seeing in terms of large vendors like AWS investing in that strategic alliance role versus that channel role training, enablement, measurement, all that good stuff? [00:48:06] Jay McBain: Yeah, it’s, it’s a great question. So when I told the story about toast at the restaurant or Square or Clover, they’re not call, they’re not gonna call open AI or Nvidia themselves either. [00:48:17] Jay McBain: When you look out at the 250,000 ISVs. That make up this AI stack, there is the layers that happen there. So the Alliance with AWS, the alliance they have with Microsoft or Google is going to be how they generate agent AI in their platforms. So when I talk about a seven layer stack, the average deal being seven layers, AI is gonna drive this to nine, and then 11, then probably 13. [00:48:44] Jay McBain: So in terms of how alliances work, I had it up there as one of the five core strategies, and I think it’s pretty even. You can have the best alliances in the world, but if the seven partners trusted by the customer don’t know what that alliance is and the benefits to the customer and never mention it, it’s all for Naugh. [00:49:00] Jay McBain: If you’re go-to market, you’re co-selling, your co-marketing strategies are not built around that alliance. It’s all for naught. If the integration and the co-innovation, the co-development, the all the co-creation work that’s done inside these alliances isn’t translated to customer outcomes, it’s all for naugh. [00:49:17] Jay McBain: These are all five parallel swim lanes. All five are absolutely critically needed. And I think they’re all five pretty equally weighted in terms of needing each other. Yes. To be successful in the era of platforms. Yeah. [00:49:32] Vince Menzione: And the problem is they’re all stove pipe today. If, if at all. Yeah. Maintained, right. [00:49:36] Vince Menzione: Alliances is an example. Channels and other example. They don’t talk to one another. Judge any, we’ve got a mic up here if anybody else has. Yep. We have some questions here, Jacqueline. [00:49:51] Question: So when we’re developing our channel programs, any advice on, you know, what’s the shift that we should make six months from now, a year from now? The historical has been bronze, silver, gold, right? And you’ve got your deal registration, but what’s the future look like? [00:50:05] Jay McBain: Yeah, so I mean, the programs are, are changing to, to the point where the customer should be in the middle and realizing the seven partners you need to win the deal. [00:50:15] Jay McBain: And depending on what category of product you’re in, security, how much you rely on resell, 91.6%. You know, the channel partners are gonna be critical where the customer spends the money. And if you’re adding friction to that process, you’re adding friction in terms of your growth. So you know, if you’re in cybersecurity, you have to have a pretty wide open reseller model. [00:50:39] Jay McBain: You have to have a wide open distribution model, and you have to make sure you’re there at that point of sale. While at the same time, considering the other six partners at moment 12 who are in either saying nice things about you or not, the customer might even be starting with you. ’cause there is actually one thing that I didn’t mention when I showed the 28 moments filled in. [00:51:00] Jay McBain: You’ll notice that the customer went to AWS twice direct. AWS lost the deal. Microsoft won the deal software. One is Microsoft’s biggest reseller in the world. They just acquired crayon. NTT who, who loves both had their Microsoft team go in. [00:51:18] Question: Mm. [00:51:19] Jay McBain: So I think that they went to AWS thinking it was A-W-S-S-A-P, you know, kind of starting this seven layer stack. [00:51:25] Jay McBain: I think they finished those, you know, critical moments in the middle looking at it. And then they went back to AWS kind of going probably WWTF. Yeah. What we thought was happening isn’t actually the outcome that was painted by our most trusted people. So, you know, to answer your question, listen to your partners. [00:51:43] Jay McBain: They want to be recognized for the other things they’re doing. You can’t be spending a hundred percent of the dollars at the point of sale. You gotta have a point of system that recognizes the point of sale, maybe even gold, silver, bronze, but recognizing that you’re paying for these other moments as well. [00:51:57] Jay McBain: Paying for alliances, paying for integrations and everything else, uh, in the cyber stack. And, um, you know, recognizing also the top 1000. So if I took your tam. And I overlaid those thousand logos. I would be walking into 2026 the best I could of showing my company logo by logo, where 80% of our TAM sits as wallet share, not by revenue. [00:52:25] Jay McBain: Remember, a million dollar partner is not a million dollar partner. One of them sells 1.2 million in our category. We should buy them a baseball cap and have ’em sit in the front row of our event. One of them sells $10 million and only sells our stuff if the customer asks. So my company should be looking at that $9 million opportunity and making sure my programs are writing the checks and my coverage. [00:52:48] Jay McBain: My capacity and capability planning is getting obsessed over that $9 million. My farmers can go over there, my hunters can go over here, and I should be submitting a list of a thousand sorted in descending order of opportunity. Of where my company can write program dollars into. [00:53:07] Vince Menzione: Great answer. All right. I, I do wanna be cognizant of time and the, all the other sessions we have. [00:53:14] Vince Menzione: So we’ll just take one other question if there are any here and if not, we’ll let I know. Jay, you’re gonna be mingling around for a little while before your flight. I’m [00:53:21] Jay McBain: here the whole day. [00:53:22] Vince Menzione: You, you’re the whole day. I see that Jay’s here the whole day. So if you have any other questions and, and, uh, sharing the deck is that. [00:53:29] Vince Menzione: Yep. Alright. We have permission to share the deck with the each of you as well. [00:53:34] Jay McBain: Alright, well thank you very much everyone. Jay. Great to have you.
Is SEO actually dead? Daniel sits down with Tifenn Dano Kwan, CMO of Amplitude, to unpack how AI search and LLMs are fundamentally changing how buyers discover, evaluate, and choose brands. They break down why traditional traffic is declining and how brand is finally becoming a measurable performance lever. Tifenn shares real data from Amplitude, explains what AI visibility actually tracks, and reveals how CMOs should rethink funnels, content, and metrics heading into 2026. You'll also learn: Why SEO isn't dead, but diversification is mandatory How AI visibility works and what it really measures The new metrics CMOs should track beyond traffic If you're a Marketer wondering how to show up in ChatGPT, Claude, Google AI Overviews, and beyond (without sacrificing pipeline), this episode is for you. Follow Tifenn: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tifenndano/ Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/
A CMO Confidential Interview with Kate Bullis and David Wiser, Managing Partners and Global Marketing Practice Leaders for ZRG Partners. Kate and David translate their extensive search experience to classify common mistakes into "movie themes" and share tips on how to recognize if you are directing or reading for a part in a disaster film. From "Play It Again, Sam," to "No, No, It's Really A CMO Role!" to "Death by Committee!" they describe the all-too-familiar plotlines and how to tear apart the hype from the facts. Hints: Look at the dashboard, listen to the questions and beware of the "Hands on the keyboard" role. Tune in to hear why companies should focus on outcomes versus qualifications and why you should always check your Zoom background. What are the five bad “movies” CEOs and boards keep remaking when they hire CMOs—and how do you avoid starring in one? Mike Linton sits down with ZRG Partners' Kate Bullis and David Wiser to unpack 2025's CMO market, why early-stage hiring should rebound, and how capital and IPO activity reset expectations from “profit at all costs” back to growth. They break down the most common failure modes—chasing a playbook, hiring an “orchestra,” titling a demand-gen job as “CMO,” forcing marketing to “stay in its lane,” and letting committees kill momentum—and the exact questions candidates and CEOs should ask to surface scope, KPIs, authority, and alignment.You'll hear red flags like “hands-on keyboard,” why the KPI dashboard effectively *is* the job description, and how cross-functional interviews reveal whether a CMO will be a strategist or an order taker. David and Kate close with urgency discipline for searches and a three-year business-back plan for defining the role.CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, ZRG Partners, Kate Bullis, David Wiser, CMO hiring, marketing leadership, executive search, CEO, board of directors, hiring mistakes, KPI dashboard, hands-on-keyboard, demand generation, brand vs performance, org design, stay in your lane, death by committee, playbook vs framework, 2025 job market, private equity, IPOs, marketing strategy, B2B marketing, growth vs profitability---Chapters00:00 – Welcome & show setup01:08 – Meet Kate Bullis & David Wiser (ZRG Partners)01:32 – 2025 CMO job market outlook02:56 – Where hiring rebounds first (startups vs. public)04:24 – From profitability snapback to growth focus05:35 – Theme 1: “Play it again, Sam” (playbook thinking)06:48 – Frameworks over playbooks: why “fetch” fails08:16 – KPIs as the real scope: the dashboard test10:08 – Theme 2: “I want the orchestra” (do-it-all CMO)12:44 – Red flag: “hands-on keyboard” and checkbox hiring14:19 – Theme 3: “No, really, it's a CMO role” (but it's demand gen)15:31 – B2B trap: title inflation and scope mismatch18:25 – Measure what matters: aligning title, work, and KPIs19:00 – Theme 4: “Stay in your lane” (the Yes Center)20:20 – Sales/product-driven constraints and influence22:00 – Theme 5: “Death by committee” (misalignment & vetoes)23:18 – Fixing alignment: who decides and how25:26 – Why bad movies still get made: urgency and drift27:54 – The other mistake: lack of urgency in searches28:43 – Funniest recruiting moments (Zoom era)30:21 – Practical advice: define the next 3 years, then the role31:29 – Wrap and where to listenSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
In this episode of The Fractional CMO Show, Casey opens up a raw coaching call with people who aren't fractional CMOs yet—but want to be. These are agency owners tired of the hamster wheel, strategists stuck doing execution, and full-time employees wondering if this fractional thing is actually real. Casey coaches through real deals happening this week: Eric transitioning from agency to targeting private equity exits, Roxy discovering clients keep telling her she's a "really strong strategist" but she's drowning in execution, Paul pitching a $30M company, and Ernesto trying to find IVF clinic owners who want marketing leadership instead of just need it. The conversation cuts through the noise—stop pitching, stop discounting, start having curious conversations that make fractional CMO services the obvious solution. Key Topics Covered: -The 3-5 client rule: Three is ideal—more clients means mixing up names like dating multiple people at once -Financial structure: Client pays your fee directly (~$9,700 of $10K), then separately pays for the team you build -Luxury pricing: They should say "that makes sense" not "can you discount?" -Warm outreach: Share your shift, ask "who should I meet?" not "will you hire me?" -The exit conversation: Surface if they're selling in 2 years—they won't tell their team but they'll tell you -Never pitch, discover: Ask questions until fractional CMO is obvious, then "what questions do you have?" -Agency owners can transition without shutting down—fractional work is separate -Discounting kills relationships: Clients who negotiate once nickel-and-dime forever -Find people who want to grow: Show them you're the bridge—they don't need to know fractional CMO exists yet
EPISODE 651 - Mark J Wilson - Full of Beans - A dead professor. A missing student, And a time-traveling detective.Mark is a scientist who works in gene therapy and very foolishly decided he had to write a novel about a time-traveling detective in his spare time.I live in Washington, DC with my wife, Carrie, but I was born and brought up in Reading, England. My favourite place in the world is in the Cotswolds, just down the road from Oxford (where most of Full of Beans is set).I went to college in Canterbury where I studied biochemistry and got a PhD. I have worked in biopharmaceuticals for the last 35 years or so.I'm currently working in gene therapy, helping to develop a much-needed cure for Rett Syndrome.I worked in Nottingham and Cambridge before moving back to Reading (so it can't be all bad, right?). Then I came to America in 2009. It does seem like a drastic move just to get out of Reading again. I lived in North Carolina for 7 years before moving to the DC area.Growing up in Reading gave me a fascination with trains and planes, being as how there wasn't much else there to interest a kid. I loved hanging around at the west end of Platform 5, and when Concorde would fly over. And there was a Model Shop. I loved the Model Shop. And Eames' model train shop.My dad gave me lifelong passions for astronomy, physics, chess, cooking, and model-making. And I love model trains. Over the years, in my spare time, I've also been a watercolor artist and a music producer. I love electronic dance music.Full of Beans is my first published novel and it is dedicated to Carrie and her coffee machine, which would constantly instruct us to “Fill Beans,” whether the hopper was full or empty. Without either of them this book might never have been written. It took over two years to write, on the weekends and holidays, and I learned a lot about writing.I heard they are bringing back Clippy... ‘I see you're writing a novel. Do you need help with that?' I did need help, but instead I have relied on some actually talented hooman-beans for that.The book was an editor's nightmare to work on. We chose British English spellings (like ‘colour') and phrases (such as ‘bugger off') to go with most of the settings and characters. However, we also chose to go with the Chicago Manual of Style for other stuff like punctuation, rather than the Oxford Guide to Style. Sorry Oxford. Please check the CMOS before levelling criticism at the editing; it was a heroic effort. Thanks Kevin and Avery.Feel free, however, to debate the choice to liberally use the Oxford comma. And to jolly-well split some infinitives. And start sentences with conjunctions.If strict British grammar is your passion, rather than a fun read, then hard cheese. It isn't meant to be bloody Shakespeare. I'm sure there'll be a new Booker Prize nominee along any minute now.The artwork was accomplished with help from artlist.io, using its Comic Noir algorithm and many, many attempts, amalgamations, and many hours of editing images to get what I wanted. The book cover was a team effort with Joe and Michelle. https://markjwilson.com/Support the show___https://livingthenextchapter.com/podcast produced by: https://truemediasolutions.ca/Coffee Refills are always appreciated, refill Dave's cup here, and thanks!https://buymeacoffee.com/truemediaca
Revenue teams are dealing with more tools, more data, more automation - and more pressure - than ever before. Growth isn't just about selling better anymore. It's about how the entire revenue engine actually works.For the first time, RevOps isn't a background function — it's shaping how companies grow, scale, and make decisions.In this episode of the Belkins Podcast, Michael Maximoff sits down with Jen Igartua, Founder & CEO of Go Nimbly, to unpack what's really happening inside modern revenue organizations — and why RevOps is suddenly at the center of it all.Jen has helped architect revenue systems for some of the most respected SaaS companies in the world, including Twilio, Zendesk, Snowflake, Intercom, and Superhuman. But this conversation isn't about theory or frameworks. It's about what breaks when companies scale, where AI actually helps (and where it creates chaos), and why the future of sales, marketing, and RevOps looks very different than most teams expect.What you'll learn in this episode:Why RevOps is having a moment — and how rising complexity, AI adoption, and executive pressure have pushed RevOps into a strategic roleWhat Revenue Operations actually does beyond automation, reporting, and tooling — including enablement, strategy, and protecting the customer experienceHow AI is changing RevOps teams — from workflow automation and data architecture to the risks of agent and automation sprawlThe real future of sales roles — why junior SDR roles are disappearing, and why business development is becoming more senior, not automated awayHow to know when your company needs RevOps — including revenue thresholds, organizational signals, and common mistakes founders make too earlyWhat strong RevOps teams get right — clean data, shared definitions, cross-functional trust, and decision-making that actually sticksThroughout the episode, Jen and Michael go deep on the messy, human side of scaling revenue — misaligned incentives, broken handoffs, over-engineered stacks, and the uncomfortable truth that most companies don't actually have a single view of the customer.This isn't a hype conversation about tools. It's a grounded look at how modern revenue organizations are being rebuilt — and why RevOps is now one of the most critical functions inside growing B2B companies.Chapters:00:00- Intro: Who is Jen Igartua03:17- What is RevOps?09:25- AI Changed RevOps: AIOps, When to Hire RevOps, Build vs Outsource17:25- Workflow Automation Is Getting Out of Control24:02- What's Next: Platform Consolidation in RevOps27:46- Clay, HubSpot, and the Reality of the Modern RevOps Stack33:48- The Limits of AI in Sales & Marketing39:25- How SDRs, Marketing, and Social Selling Are Merging49:50- RevFest: Building Real RevOps Community01:00:49- Go Nibly's Evolution and Strategy01:12:44- Curated Dinners as Acquisition Strategies01:21:26- Creativity, Leadership, and “Follow the Fun”About the ShowWhat does it really take to grow a B2B business today? We ask the people doing it.The Belkins Podcast dives deep into the strategies, decisions, and behind-the-scenes insights driving real growth at top B2B companies. Each episode features candid conversations with industry heavyweights — CROs, CMOs, founders, and seasoned operators — who've navigated market downturns, scaled teams, and dealt with the realities of modern revenue growth.You'll hear hard truths, unfiltered insights, and actionable perspectives from leaders who've actually built and operated revenue engines at scale.
Most companies don't have a marketing problem.They have a trust problem.Specifically, a trust breakdown between the CEO and the CMO.In this episode of Think Millions, I unpack why CEOs don't trust marketing leaders, why CMOs feel set up to fail, and why both sides are actually right. Modern buying behavior has changed, but the mental models and measurement systems evaluating marketing have not.Buying is nonlinear.Decisions happen privately.Influence happens long before attribution ever shows up.Yet marketing is still judged at the end of the funnel.This episode breaks down the real reason trust erodes, why marketing feels invisible even when it is working, and how leadership teams can fix the disconnect without forcing marketing into outdated boxes.No hype. No theory. Just what actually happens inside real companies trying to scale.Key parts of the conversation:0:16 – Why CEOs don't trust CMOs and why CMOs feel set up to fail 0:54 – The stat that should make every CMO uncomfortable 1:14 – Why trust controls budgets, hiring, and risk 1:29 – One third of Fortune 500 companies eliminating the CMO role 2:01 – Why CEOs and CMOs are both right 2:12 – The outdated system quietly killing trust 2:36 – Rising expectations, shrinking budgets, impossible timelines 2:58 – Brand and trust compound quietly but are evaluated loudly 3:06 – Why modern buying no longer happens in a straight line 3:20 – Marketing influencing outcomes before it can be measured 3:34 – The burnout and trust fracture inside marketing teams 3:41 – Most marketing arguments are actually about fear 3:51 – Why uncertainty makes leaders pull back 4:13 – Marketing used to feel simpler, even with less data 4:25 – Marketing shapes preference before pipeline 4:30 – CEOs are asking the wrong question, not an unreasonable one 4:36 – Marketing is no longer transactional; it is directionalGreat quotes from the podcast:• “Most companies don't have a marketing problem. They have a trust problem.”• “80% of CEOs do not trust their CMOs. That should scare you.”• “Trust is the foundation of every decision a company makes.”• “When trust exists, leaders invest forward. When it breaks, leaders pull back.”• “The CEO isn't wrong. The CMO isn't wrong. The system is outdated.”• “Marketing is being evaluated on outcomes that no longer happen in a straight line.”• “Marketing is influencing outcomes before it can be measured.”• “Marketing is doing two jobs at once shaping perception early and justifying results late.”• “Most marketing arguments aren't about marketing. They're about fear.”• “Marketing is no longer transactional. It's directional.”• “Strong marketing starts to look invisible when measurement lives too late.”ResourcesAll Episodes: Think Millions PodcastQuestions or Comments: support@thynkconsultinggroup.comAlexa's Instagram: @dralexadagostinoAlexa's Website: AlexaD'Agostino.comBook a Discovery Call with Alexa: Discovery CallThynkFuel Agency: ThynkFuelMedia.com
MQLs are dead…or are they? Daniel sits down with Emily Popson, VP of Marketing at CallRail, to unpack the biggest pieces of bad advice marketers keep seeing on LinkedIn and what the real truth is behind MQLs, attribution, dark social, and AI-powered data. Emily shares: - Why the war on MQLs is misleading thousands of marketers - How to fix your lead definitions without rebuilding your entire ops system - Why attribution isn't “garbage.” And, what metrics do CMOs actually want to see? The answer might be the ones you've been leaving out. This episode is for Marketers who are tired of LinkedIn hot takes and want to understand what actually drives revenue. CallRail is the lead engagement platform built for marketers who need clean attribution, smarter insights, and zero missed leads. From AI-powered call tracking and conversation intelligence to a 24/7 AI voice agent, CallRail helps teams maximize every inbound touchpoint and convert more leads into customers. https://www.callrail.com/proveit?utm_campaign=q4_2025_marketing_millennials_podcast&utm_medium=thirdparty_advertising&utm_source=marketingmillennials Follow Emily: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilypopson/ Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/
Sherilyn is the Founder & Global CEO of The Marketing Academy – a unique non-profit organisation dedicated to developing leadership talent in Marketing, Media&Advertising. The Marketing Academy opened in 2010, bringing together some of the world's best known & popular brands to provide world-class learning for all levels of talent from emerging leaders to CMOs. Their highly respected Scholarship and Fellowship programs are delivered in the UK, EMEA, USA, Australia & APAC. When she gets the chance, she writes about talent development and all things ‘leadership' featuring in many articles in The Sunday Times, FastCo, Telegraph, AdNews, Marketing Week, AdWeek, MarketingMagazine, Management Today and CMO.com. She has been frequently recognised for her work; receiving the CIM Women in Marketing 'Special Award for Contribution to Marketing', inducted into the Courvoisier Future 500, invited to join the Marketing Group of Great Britain, identified as one of the UK's Vision 100 by Adobe and included in AdNews Top 50 list of most powerful influencers in Australia.
Your brand isn't losing to competitors, it's drowning in “helpful” content no one remembers. In an AI-everywhere world, bland is broken and volume is just a faster way to disappear.If LLMs can write what you ship in 10 seconds, why would a buyer choose you?This week, Sylvia LePoidevin delivers the reality check B2B marketers have been dodging: content volume is a commodity, brand is the moat. We dig into how AI-native teams actually work (tastemakers and operators), why “helpful” guides are table stakes, and how human stories, conviction, and point of view become the only defensible edge in a world where production is free. We also get into:Content brands > corporate blogs: Building something people follow, not just something you publish.Helpful is dead: Why every piece needs a person, a story, and a spine—or it's AI fodder.Anchors and distribution: Human-made “anchor” content, AI-powered repurposing, zero soul lost.Manifestos, not messaging decks: Founder-fueled conviction as the real brand operating system.Brand as last moat: Community, ecosystem marketing, and taste as the next-gen B2B unfair advantage.
What actually drives agency growth when pipelines are noisy, buyers are skeptical, and everyone sounds the same?In this episode, Dan Englander sits down with Alex Marshall, a longtime agency growth leader with two decades of experience across holding companies and independents, to unpack what really moves the needle. They explore why trust and relevance matter more than tactics, how storytelling shows up late in the sales cycle, and why relationships compound over time even when results aren't immediate.This is a grounded conversation about growth as a discipline, not a hack.
Privacy is one of those topics everyone knows they should understand better—right up until it becomes urgent. Headline: it’s urgent. That's exactly why I wanted Richy Glassberg, CoFounder / CEO of SafeGuard Privacy, on the show: to tackle what may be the most complex challenge marketers face: privacy compliance at scale. Sample Page: SafeGuard Privacy Playbook Richy brings big credibility to the conversation. You’ll hear the stories of a career that included helping launch CNN.com and its digital business, co-founding the IAB, and building an advertising infrastructure still used across the industry. He likes to build things. And we’re the better for it. Because he’s THE person to help explain why privacy laws aren't just legal issues—they're structural ones. And why, if you work in marketing, advertising, media, or tech, these laws apply to you whether you realize it or not. “These laws don't care what kind of digital advertising you do. They ask one question: ‘do you have data on a consumer, and what are you doing with it?’” Richy breaks down what regulators are actually asking, why enforcement is picking up, and why brands are now responsible not only for themselves, but for their entire partner ecosystem. “Privacy doesn't have to slow growth. If you standardize it, make it auditable, and prove it once, it becomes a competitive advantage.” What I appreciate most about Richy's approach is that it's practical, and empathetic. He understands the values and the limitations of AI. He knows human attorneys need to be involved. He has made sure that SafeGuard is nimble and building systems that make compliance auditable, efficient, and—yes—actually helpful to growth, even when the rules keep changing. We also talk about: Why inboxes listed on privacy policies are now enforcement targets How standardization saved digital advertising once before…and why it’s key to compliance now Where AI fits into privacy workflows (and where it shouldn't) Why proving compliance matters more than promising it If privacy still feels abstract or overwhelming, this conversation will give you clarity—and probably a healthy nudge to check a few things you've been meaning to look at. Speaking of healthy, I’m so honored to have Richy on for 23 million additional reasons: he is also a founding force behind BreastCancer.org, (did we mention they are matching donations through December?) It’s now one of the most recognizable, trusted, peer-reviewed health information sites in the world. Richy put his powers to use, from grabbing the URL to creating the revenue streams that are the foundation for its viability and ability to serve more than 20 million women globally, and counting. Richy Glassberg works in a world defined by discretion and safeguards, yet remains an open book—grounded in purpose, devoted to his wife and best friend Katy, loyal to his Jack Russells, disciplined through 30 years of training in Shorin-Ryu Karate, and committed to making privacy compliance clearer, calmer, and more human. Key Moments: 00:00 – Why privacy compliance has become a business risk CMOs can't ignore 4:10 – How data privacy laws impact all forms of digital advertising 8:55 – How Richy’s sneakers explain privacy really well 12:40 – Why brands are now responsible for vendors…and their vendors' vendors 17:05 – What enforcement really looks like (and why it's accelerating) 22:30 – How standardization turns compliance into a competitive advantage 26:15 – Using AI to assist privacy teams without replacing legal judgment 30:45 – From building CNN.com to how a pixel protected Ted Turner’s business 34:50 – The origins of BreastCancer.org and why it's the work Richy’s most proud of 39:10 – Putting digital to good while keeping the open internet viable 41:55 – What’s next at SafeGuard Privacy Connect with Richy Glassberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richy-glassberg-49a915 Visit SafeGuard Privacy for more resources: http://www.safeguardprivacy.com Connect with E.B. Moss and Insider Interviews: With Media & Marketing Experts LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mossappeal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insiderinterviews Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/InsiderInterviewsPodcast/ Threads: https://www.threads.net/@insiderinterviews Please follow Insider Interviews, share with another smart business leader, and leave a comment on @Apple or @Spotify… or a tip in my jar!: https://buymeacoffee.com/mossappeal! THANK YOU for listening!
Renegade Thinkers Unite: #2 Podcast for CMOs & B2B Marketers
When it comes to marketing, everyone has opinions—but few have proof. That's where Professor Byron Sharp steps in. In this episode, Drew sits down with the globally renowned marketing scientist and author of How Brands Grow to unpack what B2B marketers are getting wrong, what they should measure instead, and why focusing only on in-market buyers is a recipe for decline. Byron drops truth bombs on: Why mental availability drives physical availability (not the other way around) How B2B marketers are shooting themselves in the foot with fluffy brand campaigns What to measure if you want to track real progress Why B2B growth takes time—and how to prove it's working Plus, why CMOs should stop pretending that awareness is enough and start earning a place in buyers' brains before they're ready to buy. Whether you're defending your brand budget to a CFO, fighting for longer-term investment, or just trying to grow your share of voice without blowing it all in Q1—this episode delivers the mental fuel (and science) to make your case. To hear the rest of this CMO Huddles Bonus Huddle, visit CMO Huddles Hub on YouTube. For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcasts/ To learn more about CMO Huddles, visit https://cmohuddles.com/
The 2025 MacVoices Holiday Gift Gide #7 kicks off with Brittany Smith, Mike Potter, and Chuck Joiner sharing practical and fun picks. Highlights include a fandom-themed backpack, a powerful multi-port charger, compact multi-purpose cables, an iPhone mini alternative, an AI-powered webcam, and a tool for repurposing old Macs. (Part 1) MacVoices is supported by The Antigravity A1. Get off the ground like never before with the Antigravity A1. You have to see the results to believe them. Find out everything you need to know to get off the ground with Antigravity A1 — the world's first 8K 360 drone. https://www.antigravity.tech/drone/antigravity-a1/buy?utm_term=macvoices http://traffic.libsyn.com/maclevelten/MV25314.mp3 Show Notes: Chapters: [0:00] Holiday Gift Guide setup and format [2:29] Brittany's fandom-themed backpack pick [5:32] Anker 140W multi-port travel charger [14:03] Rolling Square InCharge XS keyring cable [18:21] iPhone mini alternatives and size tradeoffs [22:02] OBSBOT Tiny 2 Lite AI webcam [29:13] Cameras and content creation discussion [29:23] Lunar Display and reusing old Macs [32:44] Closing thoughts and wrap-up Links: Brittany Smith The Jedi Order Convertible Backpack https://heroesvillains.com/products/star-wars-jedi-trekker-backpack OMRON Bronze Blood Pressure Monitor for Home Use & Upper Arm Blood Pressure Cuff https://amzn.to/457c49Y Mike Potter: Anker Laptop Charger, 140W MAX USB C Charger, 4-Port GaN and Fast Charging Power Adapter, Intuitive Touch Controls https://amzn.to/4oXnjZW OBSBOT Tiny 2 Lite 4K Webcam for PC, AI Tracking PTZ Streaming Camera with 1/2" Sensor, Gesture Control, 60 FPS, HDR, Microphones, Web Camera https://amzn.to/3XTUhiO OBSBOT Tail 2 PTZR NDI Camera 4K@60FPS, Pro AI Tracking, 1/1.5" CMOS, 50MP, 5X Optical Zoom, 12X Hybrid Zoom, SDI/HDMI/IP/USB 3.0 Output https://amzn.to/48QZsFf Chuck Joiner Rolling Square inCharge XS - 240W 4in1 Keyring Cable | Fast Charging & Data Transfer | Universal USB C/Lightning/USB Cable with Metal Housing https://amzn.to/3MAy9aE Luna Display https://shop.astropad.com/collections/shop-astropad/products/luna-display Guests: Brittany Smith is a trained cognitive neuroscientist who provides ADD/ADHD, technology, and productivity coaching through her business, Devise and Conquer, along with companion video courses for folks with ADHD. She's also the cofounder of The ADHD Guild, a community for nerdy folks with ADHD. She, herself, is a self-designated “well-rounded geek”. She can be found on Twitter as @addliberator, on Mastodon as @addliberator@pdx.social, and on YouTube with tech tips. Michael Potter is the Executive Producer of For Mac Eyes Only, and the organizer of the annual Macstock Conference and Expo. Mike's love-affair for all things Apple began in his Junior High's Library playing Lemonade Stand on a pair of brand new Apple ][+ computers. His penchant for Apple gear continued to be nurtured by the public school system when, in High School, he was hired as a lab supervisor to help run the Apple ][e lab for his fellow students and their Print Shop needs. Then, further still, in college he often opted to help a friend with her Computer Graphics coursework instead of focusing on his own studies, but only because it helped get him closer to the Mac-lab. Support: Become a MacVoices Patron on Patreon http://patreon.com/macvoices Enjoy this episode? Make a one-time donation with PayPal Connect: Web: http://macvoices.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/chuckjoiner http://www.twitter.com/macvoices Mastodon: https://mastodon.cloud/@chuckjoiner Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/chuck.joiner MacVoices Page on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/macvoices/ MacVoices Group on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/macvoice LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chuckjoiner/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chuckjoiner/ Subscribe: Audio in iTunes Video in iTunes Subscribe manually via iTunes or any podcatcher: Audio: http://www.macvoices.com/rss/macvoicesrss Video: http://www.macvoices.com/rss/macvoicesvideorss
In this episode of The Fractional CMO Show, Casey continues the conversation with a dozen successful women from the CMOx accelerator boardroom. This is part two of a webinar series where these fractional CMOs get real about building six-figure practices on their own terms. These aren't beginners. These are women commanding $10K+ monthly retainers, managing teams of 30+ people across multiple clients, and turning down full-time job offers even when they didn't have paying clients yet. They come from automotive, financial services, SaaS, climate tech, life sciences, and consumer brands. The conversation digs into pricing psychology, imposter syndrome, getting ghosted by prospects, why portfolio obsession is a waste of time, and the counterintuitive truth that higher-paying clients are actually less demanding. Casey laser coaches through some tough questions about what's really holding people back from charging what they're worth and claiming the expert position they've already earned. Key Topics Covered: -Why higher-paying clients are less demanding and require less "keyboard time" while creating bigger impact -Stop competing on price—establish your rate and find clients who pay it, not clients you have to convince -Corporate conditioning taught you the finish line always moves—fractional work means you set the standards -You're not competing with other fractionals—your success lives in relationships with 20-50 people over your lifetime -Getting ghosted isn't personal until they explicitly say no—keep following up with creative persistence -Pitch decks are overrated—sell the bespoke solution, not a menu of services -Some deals close in a day, others take a year of showing up consistently in someone's world -Who's a good fit: committed, coachable, vulnerable people willing to do the work and hear no
After running the Legacy Leaders Mastermind for over a decade, Kelly is making one of her boldest strategic evolutions yet. In today's episode, Kelly pulls back the curtain on what's changing inside Legacy Leaders for 2026 and why these shifts reveal powerful lessons every entrepreneur can apply to their own offers, teams, and growth strategy. You'll hear how feedback loops from elite clients sparked the creation of a team-level mastermind for COOs, CMOs, and senior leaders — a move designed to accelerate growth, increase profitability, and eliminate founder dependency at scale. This episode is a masterclass in: Scaling through people, not pressure Using pilot programs to test innovation responsibly Designing offers that align with mission, not just market demand Whether you lead a million-dollar business or are building toward that level, this conversation will challenge how you think about masterminds, mentorship, team development, and long-term legacy. TIMESTAMPS 01:31 – 03:45: Why evolution is non-negotiable 03:46 – 06:10: The biggest mastermind problem elite entrepreneurs face 06:11 – 08:40: Your most underused growth asset in business 08:41 – 11:15: The new Team Leaders Mastermind: COOs, CMOs & right-hand leaders 11:16 – 13:30: Breaking founder dependency 13:31 – 15:40: Using pilot programs to innovate without overcommitting 15:41 – 17:20: Aligning new offers with mission (and when to say no) 17:21 – 18:50: What you can't see when you're inside your own business 18:51 – 21:00: How to apply these lessons to your offers + next steps RESOURCES Watch the 2–10 Million Dollar Roadmap Training: https://accelerator.virtualbusinessschool.com/info-session Legacy Leaders Mastermind program overview & Application: https://join.thebusinessadvisory.com/join Grab your ticket and join us at the Legacy Leaders In-Person Mstermind Retreat, happening March 10th and 11th in Boca Raton, Florida: https://advancesociety.org/2026rsvp Follow Kelly on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kellyroachofficial/ Follow Kelly on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kelly.roach.520/ Connect with Kelly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellyroachint/
Marketing's leadership gap is widening across Fortune 500 companies. Kathryn Rathje, partner at McKinsey, reveals why only 66% of Fortune 500 companies retained CMOs last year and how marketing budgets dropped to 7.7% of revenue. She explains how CMOs can rebuild credibility by aligning metrics with CEO priorities, establishing clear ROI definitions with CFOs, and implementing full-funnel marketing measurement systems that connect brand investments to revenue outcomes.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Revenue Generator Podcast: Sales + Marketing + Product + Customer Success = Revenue Growth
Marketing's leadership gap is widening across Fortune 500 companies. Kathryn Rathje, partner at McKinsey, reveals why only 66% of Fortune 500 companies retained CMOs last year and how marketing budgets dropped to 7.7% of revenue. She explains how CMOs can rebuild credibility by aligning metrics with CEO priorities, establishing clear ROI definitions with CFOs, and implementing full-funnel marketing measurement systems that connect brand investments to revenue outcomes.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
The Twenty Minute VC: Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
Raaz Herberg is the Chief Marketing Officer and VP Product Strategy at Wiz, the fastest-growing cloud security company in history. As one of the first 10 employees, Raaz has helped scale the business from nothing to a multi-billion-dollar ARR business. Before Wiz, Raaz was a Senior PM working on Azure at Microsoft. AGENDA: 03:51 What No One Knows About The Early Wiz Days 09:08 Most Effective Marketing Wiz Ever Did? Lessons from it? 24:11 How Wiz Mastered Enterprise Sales and Product Development 39:12 The Value of Proof of Concept an Why Everyone Gets Them Wrong 44:23 Why The Best Leaders Give More Equity Than They Should 52:55 The Impact of COVID on Business Operations 01:01:33 What in AI is No One Talking About That Everyone Should Be? 01:07:29 Why Does Raaz Think Custom Tools Will Dominate the Enterprise?
Bio Info Jarrod Lopiccolo transforms brands through creative digital performance marketing with a strong architectural background. A veteran of 40+ podcasts and 100+ speaking engagements across North America and Europe, he delivers actionable insights for audiences to implement immediately. As CoFounder and CEO of Noble Studios, Jarrod has built an international agency serving Adobe, Google, and Disney while being recognized by Inc. Magazine and Ad Age. His expertise in digital marketing strategy, leadership development, and sustainable tourism makes him ideal for shows targeting CMOs, leaders, and founders. Audiences appreciate his engaging stories, from global business building to adventures like Everest Base Camp, that illustrate practical frameworks for driving revenue and team performance. Jarrod provides strategies for optimizing business growth, building high-performing teams, and creating principle-led cultures in today's digital economy.
With increased AI Adoption, is the most valuable skill for a modern marketer empathy with customers, or is it successfully prompting? Contentful, in partnership with Atlantic Insights, The Atlantic's marketing research division, recently conducted a study of over 425 marketing decision makers including 103 CMOs. This study, “When Machines Make Marketers More Human,” challenges the notion that AI will replace many marketing functions and instead demonstrates how AI can amplify marketers' effectiveness, creativity and impact. Today, we're going to talk about how AI is reshaping the very definition of a modern marketer. We'll explore the shift from simply automating tasks to augmenting human creativity, the rise of the ‘full stack' marketer, and what skills are becoming non-negotiable in an AI-driven world.To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome, Elizabeth Maxson, CMO at Contentful. About Elizabeth Maxson Elizabeth Maxson is the Chief Marketing Officer of Contentful, a content management platform trusted by more than 4,200 companies around the world. Elizabeth brings nearly two decades of integrated marketing leadership to the role and is focused on driving marketing strategies that leverage AI and personalization to help brands deliver personalized and scalable content to their audiences. Prior to Contentful, Elizabeth served as the Chief Marketing Officer at Tableau, a Salesforce company, where she led go-to-market strategy, drove end-to-end marketing initiatives, and spearheaded strategic technology partnerships, launching critical relationships with industry giants such as AWS, Google, Alibaba, Apple, and many others. In addition to her role at Tableau, Elizabeth has also served as the Head of Marketing at Quip, another Salesforce acquisition. She holds a BAA in Facility Management and Marketing from Central Michigan University. ,Yes,This will be completed shortly Elizabeth Maxson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emaxson/ Resources Contentful: contentful.com The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow Catch the future of e-commerce at eTail Palm Springs, Feb 23-26 in Palm Springs, CA. Go here for more details: https://etailwest.wbresearch.com/ Contentful, in partnership with Atlantic Insights, The Atlantic's marketing research division, conducted a new study, When Machines Make Marketers More Human, challenging the notion that AI will replace many marketing functions and instead demonstrates how AI can amplify marketers' effectiveness, creativity and impact. They surveyed 425 marketing decision makers, including 103 CMOs, across industries, company sizes, and regions to show how forward-thinking marketing leaders are incorporating AI into their critical infrastructure. Get the report hereConnect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstromDon't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.showCheck out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company
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