POPULARITY
Hosted by jazza john
11 episodes with jazza john
2 episodes with jazza john
On this week's episode: author, illustrator and self-proclaimed film nerd Ess Dennis talks Rowan about the homoerotic nature of cult classics The Princess Bride and Lord of the Rings, as well as a (very enthusiastic) discussion of Sigourney Weaver in Alien. Check out Eva here: https://www.instagram.com/khal_essie/ Support QMP on Patreon: patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast. For as little as $5 per month you gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queermoviepod/ - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
This week, Eva Bloom leads Rowan on an odyssey of queer revelation: spanning from the pastoral queerness of Anne of Green Gables, through The Definitive 2000s Lesbian Rom-Com to the polyamorous queer futurity of Janelle Monae's Dirty Computer. Check out Eva here: https://www.instagram.com/whatsmybodydoing Support QMP on Patreon: patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast. For as little as $5 per month you gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queermoviepod/ - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
How many times did Jazza and Rowan cry while watching this movie I hear you ask? Well - you'll have to tune in to find out! In this episode we dive into queer loss, grief, and isolation with a look at the heart-wrenching 2023 movie All Of Us Strangers. Will Jazza and Rowan survive the entire episode without passing away from pure sadness? Only one way to find out!
There is a definitive answer to the age old question of the best character in the L-Word and Stevie Boebi is going to prove it to you. The return of the queer-coded villain, the politics of "playing gay", and the L-word's most contentious debate. Stevie Boebi takes her turn in the hot (takes) seat this week! Listen to this any many more hot takes with Rowan! Check out Stevie here: https://www.instagram.com/stevieboebi/ Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast. For as little as $5 per month you gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queermoviepod/ - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
This episode Jazza and Rowan right the wrong of not covering Conclave for our Oscars 2025 episode. Spoilers from the very beginning, and Jazza learning how to actually pronouns Ralph Fiennes.
Luke, Han and Leila should have been a throuple in Star Wars, and there is enough cannon to prove it according to Isabel Moncola Daly. Listen to this any many more hot takes with Rowan! Check out Isabel here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/isabel-daly-44ba9212b/ Support us on Patreon, and read Isabel's evidence doc at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast. For as little as $5 per month you gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queermoviepod/ - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
Did you have a trans musical crime thriller on your 2024 bingo? This new movie from Jacques Audiard, stars Zoe Saldaña, Karla Sofía Gascón, Selena Gomez, Adriana Paz, Mark Ivanir, and Édgar Ramírez, tells the story of a feared cartel leader who enlists a lawyer to help her disappear and achieve her dream of transitioning into a woman. Listen on to hear Rowan and Jazza's takes on this new release.... Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like access to our Discord and monthly queer movie watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
Hot Takes is back! Our guests bring us some spicy queer TV hot takes - but will they manage to persuade our host Rowan? This episode we're joined by the myth, the legend, writer and comedian Jess Durand, who give us THREE queer Downton Abbey hot takes... and Rowan hasn't seen a single episode... Check out Jess' work here: https://www.instagram.com/lejessdurand/?hl=en Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queermoviepod/ - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
Hot Takes is back! Our guests bring us some spicy queer TV hot takes - but will they manage to persuade our host Rowan? This episode we're joined by award-winning author Aleema Omotoni with takes on Our Flag Means Death, Downton Abbey, and The Bear... Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queermoviepod/ - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
This episode Rowan and Jazza cover new trans horror I Saw The TV Glow - about a pair of teens who become fans of a teen fantasy TV series, but also about the horrors of a closeted life and the inherent wasted experience of denying who you are... Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like access to our Discord and monthly queer movie watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
We are joined by professional purple lesbian Ellen Jones as she tell us about about the movies that have impacted her queer identity - from Lady Penelope to Princess Mia! Find Ellen here: https://ellen-jones.co.uk/ Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
We are joined by lesbian campaigner Ellen Jones, as she tells us about about the movies that have impacted her queer identity - from Lady Penelope to Princess Mia! Find Ellen here: https://ellen-jones.co.uk/ Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
This episode Rowan and Jazza cover Monkey Man, starring and directed by Dev Patel and showcasing some kick-ass hijra! Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
We are joined by (best) friend of the podcast Tazmyn for a particularly choatic episode, as they tell us about about the movies that have impacted their queer identity! Find Tazmyn here: https://www.instagram.com/teabooksandtazmyn/ Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
This week on the podcast we'll be talking about new queer tennis movie CHALLENGERS starring Zendaya, Mike Faist, and Josh O'Connor and directed by Luca Guadagnino! With SPECIAL GUEST (because rowan is still sick) Ty! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPfeM2tm3T19uPf8pU3VHLg Support independent queer media by joining our patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast/membership This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
This week on the podcast we'll be talking about new gay cowboy movie STRANGE WAY OF LIFE starring Pedro Pascal and Ethan Hawke and directed by Jazza's fave Pedro Almodóvar! Support independent queer media by joining our patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast/membership This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
This week on the podcast we'll be talking about new lesbian movie DRIVE-AWAY DOLLS - an action-comedy crime caper starring Margaret Qualley, Geraldine Viswanathan, Beanie Feldstein, Colman Domingo, Pedro Pascal, Bill Camp, and Matt Damon! Support independent queer media by joining our patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast/membership This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
Hot Takes is back! Our guests bring us some spicy queer movie hot takes - but will they manage to persuade our host Rowan? This episode we're joined by the creative team behind new queer movie "Growing Pains": Catherine Argyrople, Mariana Fabian, and Deanna Tarraza - and they bought their A-game, with takes on mean lesbians, questioning characters, and who should have topped in Brokeback Mountain... Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queermoviepod/ - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
[REUPLOADED WITHOUT AUDIO ISSUES!] Super queer animed movies are few and far between - but a genre to explore nonetheless... and today we're tackling the Oscar-nominated action-adventure-fantasy tale of questionable villain - NIMONA! Support independent queer media by joining our patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast/membership This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John We are edited by Corry!
This episode we're joined by Trevor Anderson, director of the new queer coming-of-age fim "Before I Change My Mind", to find out the movies that had an impact on his queer identity. Check out the trailer here: https://youtu.be/WcBwrD-NlVA Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queermoviepod/ - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
We are joined by author of queer YA romance "The No-Girlfriend Rule" Christen Randall - who tells us about the movies that have impacted their queer identity! Find Christen and their writing here: https://www.bychristenrandall.com Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
We are joined by brain box YouTuber extraordinaire, Jordan Harrod to talk about the media that made her queer. We talk about Kim Possible, fan fiction and Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Find Jordan on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/c/jordanharrod Head to https://www.squarespace.com/queermovie to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code queermovie! Thanks to new sponsor Ravensburger - check their puzzles out here: https://www.ravensburger.co.uk/en-GB Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This was recorded while SAG AFTRA and the WGA were striking in 2023, we support the striking workers as without them, we would have no media to build a podcasting empire around. Find Mollie at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6jZvmJ7QJ_LAH-DpMpLf2Q https://twitter.com/EnglishSimmer https://www.twitch.tv/englishsimmer This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
It's queer Christmas! AKA Halloween, and so we are covering the queer-zoomer-slasher-comedy from 2022, Bodies Bodies Bodies! Rowan is out this week so the drag duo Nova and Olympia cohost. Head to https://www.squarespace.com/queermovie to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code queermovie! Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Novympia and Jazza John
In a special guest episode we are joined by Mollie, The English Simmer, to talk about how the likes of The Sims, Pokemon, Life is Strange and Animal Crossing were formative gaming experiences for her growing up. Head to https://www.squarespace.com/queermovie to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code queermovie! Thanks to new sponsor Ravensburger - check their puzzles out here: https://www.ravensburger.co.uk/en-GB Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This was recorded while SAG AFTRA and the WGA were striking in 2023, we support the striking workers as without them, we would have no media to build a podcasting empire around. Find Mollie at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6jZvmJ7QJ_LAH-DpMpLf2Q https://twitter.com/EnglishSimmer https://www.twitch.tv/englishsimmer This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
Let's talk about the devisive Sam Levinson "black comedy" thriller ASSASSINATION NATION! Head to https://www.squarespace.com/queermovie to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code queermovie! Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! Plus check out quality queerwear company NerdyKeppie... use coupon code "queermovie" for twenty percent off your first purchase! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
We were joined in the studio this episode by our wonderful friend (and queer music journalist) Taylor Behnke to talk about the songs that made her bi - from the gender exploration of scene kid subcultures, to muscians she only knew were queer years after first listening to them... Head to https://www.squarespace.com/queermovie to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code queermovie! Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! Check out Taylor's stuff here: https://www.taylorbehnke.com/ This episode was recording during the SAG/AFTRA and WGA strikes of 2023. Without the labor of the writers and actors currently on strike, many of the movies/shows we cover here wouldn't exist. QMP stands in full solidarity with those on strike - you can donate to the strike fund here: https://entertainmentcommunity.org/ This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John
This week we're joined by Becky Albertalli - author of Simon vs the Homosapien Agenda (aka Love, Simon) - to talk about influential queer TV, movies, and characters in her life! Plus what it was like feeling forced to come out in the public eye... Head to https://www.squarespace.com/queermovie to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code queermovie! Support the podcast on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast This episode was recorded prior to the Hollywood strikes - without the labor of the writers and actors currently on strike, many of the movies/shows we cover here wouldn't exist. QMP stands in full solidarity with those on strike - you can donate to the strike fund here: https://entertainmentcommunity.org/ This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini
Let's talk about the iconic sapphic British rom com - Imagine Me and You! Head to https://www.squarespace.com/queermovie to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code queermovie! Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! Plus check out quality queerwear company NerdyKeppie... use coupon code "queermovie" for twenty percent off your first purchase! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
Hot Takes is back! Headed by our very own Rowan Ellis and with guest Amanda The Jedi, movie commentator and critic, and Twilight superfan! Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. Kradl is a new podcast discovery platform where you can discover hidden gems and independent podcasts - check them out here! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
In which we talk about the gay Disney move which flew under our radar until a teacher in Florida got investigated by the PTA for showing it to her students. Take the Multitude survey: https://iteratehq.com/multitude/6463bbb5d58a250001ec8ab2 Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. Plus check out quality queerwear company NerdyKeppie... use coupon code "queermovie" for twenty percent off your first purchase! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
We're finally covering this cult classic starring Wesley Snipes, Patrick Swayze, and John Leguizamo as three New York City drag queens who embark on a road trip. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. Plus check out quality queerwear company NerdyKeppie... use coupon code "queermovie" for twenty percent off your first purchase! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
This week, it's Rumpelstiltskin. Amanda reflects on pre-industrial revolution girl bossing, Julia starts singing her social security number into the breeze, and how parent's need to learn better lies to brag about their children. Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of death, forced marriage, threat of violence, revolution, anti-semitism, kidnapping, body horror, racism, blood, and illness. Housekeeping - Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends The Super Mario Bros. Movie - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out the Queer Movie Podcast - a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today! Sponsors - BetterHelp is an online therapy service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits - Tavour delivers craft beer right to your doorstep. Get $10 off after your first order of $25 or more when you use code “spirits”. Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com. About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
Hot Takes is back! Headed by our very own Rowan Ellis and with guest Eleanor Medhurst, the glamorous lesbian fashion historian from Dressing Dykes. This is a super fun one. This episode was sponsored by .gay, the domain supporting our community. Head over to queermoviepodcast.gay to get a FREE .gay domain name of your choice for your own website or brand for 1-year. We are also happy to be sponsored by the new book from Marie Blanchet, Skin Deep. Want some supernatural queer happy endings? Check out https://blanchetmarie.com/en/books/skin-deep/. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
Let's talk about (spoiler alert) Jazza's favourite movie of the year (and maybe of all time) - as we look at parallel universes, googly eyes, and lesbian supervillains! Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd TRANSCRIPT: JAZZA: Hello, everyone. Just before we jump into the main episode today, I want to thank our two top-level patrons, Jennifer, and Toby, who are supporting us on the rainbow parent tier, which is absolutely bloody amazing. Do you want to join them, head over to Patreon and you don't have to donate as much as they do, but we'd really appreciate anything that you can give to us. More about Patreon coming a little bit later. On with the episode, my darlings. [theme] JAZZA: Welcome to the Queer Movie Podcast celebrating the best— ROWAN: —And worst— JAZZA: In LGBTQ plus cinema, one glorious genre at a time. ROWAN: I'm Rowan Ellis. JAZZA: And I'm Jazza John. ROWAN: Each episode we discuss a movie from a different genre of cinema. JAZZA: This episode's genre is— JAZZA AND ROWAN: Queer Oscars 2023. ROWAN: So in sync, so coordinated. JAZZA: Yeah, a 100%. The—the yearly tradition of us doing the Queer Oscar stuff. So today, we're going to be talking about the best bloody movie ever made by the Daniels, Kwan, and Scheinert. And starring the best actor in the history of humanity, Michelle Yeoh, and nominated for 11 Oscars, I think. Everything Everywhere All at Once. ROWAN: Not to spoil what Jazza thought of the movie or anything. But before we start— JAZZA: It's my favorite movie, it's my favorite movie. I'm so fucking excite— after like the last three movies that we've done, I'm so excited to speak about something that I actually genuinely adore. I love this film. Spoiler. ROWAN: But before we stuff Employee of the Month awards up our asses, so we can fight Michelle herself. Jazza, what's the gayest thing you've done since the last episode? JAZZA: So um, hi everybody, I live in New York. And I— ROWAN: Oh, here we go again. JAZZA: Ran out of my NHS-prescribed prep at the end of last year. And so I have been having to live like it's the 90s, oh, my God. And I just—for the first time, like a true American, which I'm not. But like a true American resident picked up my first prescription of prep from CVS. ROWAN: You— did you have to pay American money for it? Or do—do you have an insurance? JAZZA: No, I get it on my health insurance. ROWAN: Oooh, look at you! JAZZA: I got a full fe—although, can I just show you the documentation that I have to read— ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: —when I take this. ROWAN: I'll do an audio [2:33] Okay, here's the audio description. What's basically happened is Jazza has just come onto the webcam that I can see. And they've essentially like, you know, one of those comedy scrolls that just keeps rolling all the way down the throne room in some kind of fantasy comedy movie, that's exactly what's just—just been displayed in front of me. That is like, a world map to scale, that is so big. Have you read any of it? JAZZA: Yeah, well, I had to try and because, like, I know that, like what you're meant to do to take for it. But I wanted to like double check, because this is American prep, and maybe it's different. So I found the instructions of dosage and how to take it, and it says, take dosage exactly as your prescriber told you. ROWAN: Okay. JAZZA: Fucking useless. ROWAN: What—oh, did your prescriber not tell you? JAZZA: No. But I have texted him and said, is it like normal prep and we'll find out when he texts me back, so that'd be good. ROWAN: Wow. JAZZA: What's the gayest thing you did? ROWAN: Before we go into the gayest thing, I really feel like this podcast is educational. It's very vitally important, very serious, not at all. But in cases, anyone listening who doesn't know this, if you take two or more prescriptions monthly, and you're on the NHS, like through the NHS, get yourself a prepaid certificate, because it will be cheaper. And then every single prescription you get past, I think it's literally like you have to have one and a half prescriptions a month, it will be cheaper, and every single one, it won't cost you any more money. And then when you go in and they say do you pay for prescriptions, you get to be like, I already did baby, I pre-paid. Because I didn't know that until very recently. And I've been taking two prescriptions a month for many years and didn't realize I was paying too much for them. That wasn't the gayest thing I've done though. Um. JAZZA: [laughs] ROWAN: What? JAZZA: Isn't it, making—making healthcare more easy to—easier to navigate and more accessible? [4:24] ROWAN: [4:25] that's pretty gay. No, that I actually did my first in-person talk, and since the pandemic— JAZZA: Oh yeah, this is cool. ROWAN: I used to do a lot of them. And I've done some in person like hosting stuff and things like that, but mostly it's been online. But I went to essentially like a organization where a bunch of like solicitors and lawyers, and legal organizations kind of have joined forces so that, that LGBT group is—has some has—has actual members and it isn't just like one person at one law firm. And I did a little talk and I am very, very proud of it, it went very, very well. And I actually think that talk is very good. It's basically about the—the parallels of the moral panic from the 80s around gay people to the trans panic now. Yeah, a lot of people came to ask me about it afterward, I think including some people who hadn't necessarily been to abreast of the situation with like the trans panic. And who had some very thoughtful questions, and I think definitely was making them think, which is, you know, what we love to do. So, If anyone wants me to come and talk, basically be very depressing for an hour, I now apparently do that professionally. But that was my gay [5:34] JAZZA: Don't sell yourself [5:35]. If anybody wants like a really informed and provocative discussion or talk to bring to your workplace, then please get in touch with Rowan Ellis because she's one of the [5:45] ROWAN: [5:48] JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: Oh, don't think I won't do it, I'll do it. I'm sorry, that was a threat for some reason to you. Yeah. No, that's—that was, that's pretty gay, so that's me. JAZZA: Well done. Proud of you. ROWAN: Thank you. [theme] JAZZA: So anybody who is new here, here's how we're going to do it. So first, we're going to give a little bit of context around how gay the Oscars are this year in 2023. And I am just going to carve out a little bit of time to do some gushing around how I think Michelle Yeoh is the best person on the face of the planet, how she's my bitch, and that I die for her. I watched Star Trek Discovery for Michelle Yeoh. ROWAN: That's dedication. We will be spoiling this movie, so we would encourage you to watch it before listening to the rest of the episode because it really is very excellent. And some of these movies that we review, were like, no, don't bother, just listen to us describe what happens during the plot. But for this one, do go away and watch it and then come back. JAZZA: Yeah. To be clear, I think this is the best film ever made. So without further ado, let's put everything on a bagel, despair, report cards, salt, and this review of the movie, Everything Everywhere All at Once. [theme] ROWAN: So this year we had a few options actually when we were looking at what maybe we wanted to do for— JAZZA: No we didn't, we were always going to do this— ROWAN: Okay, well— JAZZA: [7:12] ROWAN: —hypotechnically. JAZZA: Yeah, yeah. ROWAN: There would [7:13] JAZZA: If were gonna pretend. ROWAN: So obviously Everything Everywhere All at Once, Tar, which was the film with Cate Blanchett that we didn't enjoy, that we have already reviewed. So if you did enjoy that or not, check out the podcast on that, already out. There's also The Whale, which has earned three nominations, I think, including for Brendan Frazier's performance of a gay man, spiraling out over grief after the death of his partner. And then technically Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery, [7:44] JAZZA: Oh sure. Yeah. ROWAN: For Best Adapted Screenplay because allegedly Ben was gay. And we also have already done that. So realis—oh, I think like, again, technically like Lady Gaga got a nomination for the theme song to Top Gun Maverick, and you know. JAZZA: Love the Top Gun Maverick, already one of the gayest fucking movies on the planet without actually being gay. Actually did get an Oscar nomination, we could have covered it. I love that because of Lady fucking Gaga of all people. ROWAN: Yeah. Their only— JAZZA: It would have been quite poetic actually. Should we go back and just do Top Gun? ROWAN: I mean, yeah, maybe it's like hey, here's a little sneak little—little cheeky episode where it's just like gay, the gay subtext genre. That is technically a genre, I guess? JAZZA: Hey, watch this space. ROWAN: And then there's also some ones that are maybe lesser known. So one of the best international feature, Close, which is from Belgium, follows two teenage boys who have this very close friendship and then it get there like a lot of drama happens after some of their schoolmates sort of notice how close they are. And there's like a rift forms between them, which I haven't seen. And it also haven't seen after [8:48] which seems to be ambiguously gay. Where some people are like, it's very obvious that the main character is gay. And some people are like, it's—it's not, no one picked up on it, blah, blah, blah. So it's like, that was also a possibility of [9:00] this movie that everyone is obsessed with. And that I do need to see, but I need to be emotionally ready for it because apparently, it's going to tear my heart out. JAZZA: Great. ROWAN: Absolutely decimated. And so yeah, I think that the only one that we haven't covered that we might do on the podcast seems to be The Whale. But I literally—I mentioned it not to say that we shouldn't do Everything Everywhere All at Once. I just mentioned it as like, oh, we could also do the work. Like I hadn't even finished typing to send the message. Before Jazza was like absolutely the fuck not, we're doing this movie. We're not doing any other movie ever again. Only this movie. JAZZA: I think I might have threatened to quit. ROWAN: Yeah. [9:35] Okay. Good luck [9:37] Rowan. So yeah, essentially, we didn't really have a choice and by we, I mean me. But I'm fine with that. I—I um have a confession though. JAZZA: Go on. ROWAN: I started watching this movie a little while ago. And I just didn't finish. I just got like— I mean I've finished it now. To be clear, I'm coming into this podcast— JAZZA: Oh my gosh! ROWAN: —not having watched the movie. JAZZA: Well, you did it with Rose, so. ROWAN: I basically got to the fanny pack fight scene, but I just like wasn't in the frame of mind to— I don't know like the ADHD was really ADHD. And I was like, I can't concentrate on anything, let alone this long movie. JAZZA: You didn't even get that far. ROWAN: I know. JAZZA: The fanny pack [10:18] ROWAN: It's really near the beginning, but my brain was just like, I can't concentrate on anything longer than about two minutes long. And I wanted to do it justice. Like I knew that so many people love this film, and I wanted to give it a good go. So I was like, I'm not just going to try and push through it. I want to actually enjoy it. So I am very happy that you forced me to watch it, because it's a very good movie. JAZZA: Wait, had you not finished it until we were going to do this episode? ROWAN: Yeah. I literally watched it for the episode. JAZZA: Oh, my God. I'm—you're welcome. ROWAN: Your—again. Again, Jazza the way you say welcome absolutely destroys me, but— JAZZA: Welcome. ROWAN: Absolutely not. So basically, but I'll show you because I don't know why I thought I would be able to watch this movie. I was like, maybe I need something different to my brain. So I was like, maybe I'll just paint while I'm doing it, just like a little cute painting. But then I forgot that I had to make notes for this podcast. So I was like, trying to write notes, and then also paint. So I got like, not far through the painting whatsoever. I just got the under-the-base thing done, which is like, this is— JAZZA: Oh that's cute. ROWAN: —the scene where she like cracks in three, and it's like any office building. JAZZA: Oh yeah. ROWAN: But like none of the actual features are in, so it just looks really like blobs. But I will try and finish it by the time this goes out, so we can put it on our social media because you know, we should probably upload there, you know. JAZZA: Hey [11:39] ROWAN: Put things on our socials. JAZZA: Really great for engagement. ROWAN: Yeah, everyone loves a good [11:44] So yeah, that is essentially my context, is that the queer movies we've done, like I've done like a—together, we did a whole video about the quick history of the Oscars on my channel before, we've talked about the kind of Oscars in general in other episodes of the podcast, so I wanted to keep it just to like what's going on specifically this year, which seems to be—I would say that from the movies that I've seen, that are nominated, this one it feels like— like Tar, for example, and Knives Out and things, the sexuality is not necessarily a key part of the plot. It could be that the character like isn't queer, and it would have been reasonably similar. Whereas I think that the queer element of this film is like important to the plot. Like the— the fact— JAZZA: Yeah 100%. ROWAN: — that she's queer is important to what's going on here. Which I think is very—it's going to be interesting to have a little chat about. Would you like to do your context, which is basically just you talking about your [12:40] JAZZA: Michelle Yeoh? Yeah, my girl Michelle, I'm—every gay kind of has a that one female artist, that they will die for generally. Mine in the music sphere, Shakira, and in the action sphere, Michelle Yeoh. Michelle Yeoh could probably be credited with me deciding to learn Chinese and move to China. I'm not even joking. I first— I remember watching her—the first time I ever watched her was in the James Bond movie that she was in, which was I Think Tomorrow Never Dies? And since then, have just like, completely been obsessed with her, obsessed with her career. She went from—well before then, she started off as like a beauty queen in Malaysia, then did an advert with Jackie Chan in the 1980s because, of course, every East Asian woman in the 1980s did an advert with the Jackie Chan, they were advertising watches. Then she from that ended up being an action star and a huge star in Hong Kong in her own— right Hong Kong being the center of the movie industry in Asia. So she was in movies like when [13:51] Yes, madam, and was already this huge, huge star. She was catapulted into international stardom through James Bond and then ended up doing the Ang Lee film, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was in stuff like Memoirs of a Geisha, went on to do have supporting roles in movies like Crazy Rich Asians. And just— has just kind of like grown into playing a lot of these matriarch roles. She has a dance background and so has traditionally done all of her own stunts and all of her fight scenes, which is the same for a lot of the stuff that is in this movie. And I just think she's really fucking badass. She's learned whole languages in order to play roles. Before the 2000s she couldn't speak any Mandarin, she learned it for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and now does this whole movie, this whole movie Everything Everywhere All at Once in Mandarin, just full interviews in Mandarin. She learnt Burmese when she played Aung San Suu Kyi in The Lady hasn't aged very well that movie, but that's crazy. And she didn't speak any Cantonese before she broke into Hong Kong cinema. Like this woman is a absolutely fucking phenomenal. And she was educated at least part of her life in London, so we can claim her, she's one of us. And that's all. I love her. ROWAN: That's very adorable. JAZZA: Thank you. ROWAN: Someone, someone, someone send this to Michelle. JAZZA: Oh, I—you know that embarrassing interaction I had with Baldwin Yang, I feel like Michelle Yeoh is one of the only other people who I would like physically combust in front of. I would not be able to handle it. ROWAN: I love that. Yeah, we'll keep you at a distance. I'll be— if I ever see her in the street and you're with me, I'm taking, I'm like gonna rugby tackle you to the floor. I'll be like, no, Jazza shield your eyes. Like— JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: —I feel like it would just have you'd be having some kind of like angelic experience, it would burn the very soul out of you, so don't worry, I've got your back. JAZZA: Thank you. And just to close on one final thing before we dive into the plot of this movie. She's the first East Asian woman to be nominated for an Oscar Best Actress. And Stephanie Hsu is the first East Asian woman to be nominated as a Best Supporting Actress. This movie is groundbreaking. And yeah, just again, before we go in and spoil the plot if you haven't watched it, you have to, it'll change your life. And you'll cry a lot. If you're anything like me, you'll probably cry a lot. ROWAN: I think she feels like a shoo-in for Best Actress. JAZZA: Who's she against? ROWAN: Cate Blanchett. JAZZA: [16:26] ROWAN: For Tar. JAZZA: I rec— so I will be. I can see Cate Blanchett winning, and I will be furious. ROWAN: Yeah. I think that— I think that's the most likely thing if Michelle doesn't, because the other ones it's other Michelle, for the fave woman's Michelle Williams, which you know, whatever. It's a film, it's fine, but like I feel like there's been better. Movies about movies and stuff. I think it's only because it's Spielberg talking about himself that anyone cares. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: It's Andrea Riseborough for To Leslie, which is like the one everyone jokes about how no one actually knows. That everyone was like what the hell even is that film? When did it even come out? What is it, who cares? Ana De Armas for Blonde, where the hell did that nomination come from? Absolutely unhinged behavior from the Academy, and then Michelle. So I feel like she—she— if there's any justice in the world, will win it. JAZZA: And also she's—she's like a has a long decorated career, everywhere else apart from the Oscars. And the Oscars generally likes taking these opportunities to award— rewards people who have been such items in the industry, but maybe have never had the— the role has kind of put them in the contention for an award like this. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: I think she will win. I think the best picture win is less of a shoo-in. ROWAN: Screenplay, I think is going to be the contest there is going to be with Banshees. And I think supporting actress—supporting actress Stephanie might be in. I feel like the only one that might—you know actually no because even though it is Angela Bassett, it's for Black Panther, which won't—It won't get it because it's a superhero movie. And the other two for The Whale and Banshees, like the— it's—they weren't big enough roles, I don't think. So it's Stephanie against Jamie Lee Curtis for the same movie, and Stephanie was simply better. So I'm really hoping that we have some— not just like first nominations, but first wins to go with it in the same year. JAZZA: I'd love it if Mitski beat Lady Gaga as well. [18:30] ROWAN: I love that for you. Right. Should we get into the plot of this movie then? JAZZA: Yeah, let's do it. [theme] ROWAN: Okay, so the movie begins with our hero Evelyn doing her taxes, which apparently was the summary of the movie pre-trailers, and even when the trailers were going out because I didn't want to spoil the movie at all. What it was we're going to be before the trailer dropped. So it was just a woman does her taxes was the description on IMDb for a long time, which I think is hysterical. And we essentially get this extremely chaotic scene where we're introduced to a bunch of issues that are going on in her life and complications, including the fact that she's not doing her taxes very well essentially, is one thing that she is, and it kind of hurt her husband on this laundromat which might not be doing too well, business-wise. She has annoying customers, her father is there and— JAZZA: He's just arrived from China. ROWAN: —just arrive from China. And her daughter is gay, has a girlfriend called Becky. The grandfather doesn't know about. And so the daughter has come to basically demand that hey, I just want to tell grand like I don't want to lie to him. I want to tell him what's going on and the fact that Becky is my actual girlfriend, not just like a friend. And she has a very sweet husband that she kind of does—they have this very practice dance where she will like bang the ceiling and he'll know that he needs to come down and but he—there's also slight difficulties in communication. So the husband has like moved a bunch of the clothes for the customers upstairs, so they're not where they should be. And so it's—it's both very like synchronized dance almost situation going on, but with utter chaos because there are things that aren't quite fitting together, which, you know, it's kind of the vibe metaphorically and literally throughout this movie with this— with her life and with the family. JAZZA: This is the first scene so I don't want to spend too much time on it. But I adore it so much for a couple of reasons. One is the swirling chaos that you talk about, and that I love you [20:37] describing it as a dance because I've never really thought of it like that. It's also one of the first times I can remember seeing the Chinglish kind of like flow of their language going with like dipping in and out of Mandarin and English, as the two of them are speaking depending on kind of like what they're talking about. When they're talking about external things, so things like their taxes, when Stephanie's girlfriend is coming, and all of those kinds of things, they'll often dip into English. And then when they're talking about their relationship, the fact that Gong Gong is there and all of that kind of stuff, a lot of it is in Mandarin. And they just kind of like that's a part of like bilingual families that I've never really seen before, maybe in kind of like some Spanish media, but definitely not with Chinese, and I love being able to see that. And secondly, I want to ask you, what do you think about the theory that Evelyn has ADHD? ROWAN: I didn't see that theory. I've not seen that theory before. Until literally I was reading just like the Wikipedia page and stuff to make sure that I hadn't missed any of the plot points while I was like making notes. And it was like yeah, themes, including ADHD. And I was like, huh, interesting. JAZZA: I think there's a couple of reads of it. One is, this is the modern world that we're in, where we are distracted and having to pay attention to and having to care about things that we don't actually care about. Stuff like taxes and laundry is like the line that goes through the movie. But you can also read it as the this is Evelyn trying to deal with all of the spinning plates, and a mind that is dealing with ADHD. And I love that reading of her, of kind of like, this is how she is trying to kind of like function through the world. And from my experience with ADHD anyway, it feels very—when I'm having like bad days, it feels like this opening scene. And I think that it's portrayed with the editing style and with her acting incredibly, incredibly well. And I'd like this as a reading for the character too. I don't think it's ever like explicitly mentioned, I think it's—I think it is just a theory unless one of the Daniels has mentioned it, ROWAN: I can definitely see that either way to be honest. I like that. Also, something I think is interesting is I watch everything with subtitles on because otherwise I wouldn't—as someone who doesn't speak anything but English, I wouldn't have noticed the fact that it's both Cantonese and Mandarin, depending on which member the family she's speaking to. So her father speaks Cantonese, and then she speaks Mandarin to Waymond. And I think that's also really interesting these like specific differences, cultural differences, even within this family that I think from the outside people would see as like one distinct group, as like this is a specifically a Chinese-American story. And I like the fact that you've got these elements which are brought in by the people who worked on the film to ensure that it doesn't become something which is sort of the homogenized version of the Asian-American story that might be told by people outside of that group. JAZZA: Yeah. It feels so real. It felt so real and really kind of like, it like [23:42] I'm not Asian- American, but I have been around these spaces at all, and it felt incredibly real. Like even though—when Stephanie's character [23:52] ROWAN: [23:53] Steph's character. JAZZA: Yeah. When Joy—when Joy as a character is introduced and we see Gong Gong for the first time, hug her granddad for the first time. And she's trying to kind of like get out. She—she understands Chinese, but she's trying to get out like the introduction to Becky and the distain with which her granddad just goes, your Chinese is really getting worse and worse every time I see you. And I've heard—I've heard older members of kind of like, I'm older generations of families, like say that about the other younger generations and like the disdain, like all of those interactions just feel really, really real. ROWAN: Also, the fact that Joy is— Joy is trying to—it is Evelyn's daughter it's trying to tell her grandfather that Becky has a girlfriend, and she suddenly realizes that she doesn't know the exact version of friend— JAZZA: Doesn't know how to say it, yeah. ROWAN: —girlfriend like which again just feels very real. That idea of like if you're someone who's got language for certain things in your life, and like you speak about certain things to your family. I think that's quite telling that that's not necessarily a word that she has at the tip of her tongue to be able to say in Cantonese. That, to me was like very interesting. And then we also have essentially, the end of this interaction is that Evelyn interrupts in Cantonese to describe Becky as a good friend rather than a girlfriend. So deliberately interrupting her daughter, to cover up her daughter's queerness for his grandfather. That she says, you know, he's old, we don't want him to, you know, this would— this would be too difficult for him to deal with. JAZZA: They keep on talking about how it's going to kill him, [25:24] ROWAN: [25:25] JAZZA: [25:25] he's already flown from China for the Chinese New Year [25:27] ROWAN: It's really difficult. And then essentially Joy leaves really upset. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: And goes to get in the car to leave. And Evelyn has clearly got this parental love within her that she just cannot express in a way that her daughter understands. JAZZA: And so just says that she's fat. ROWAN: Yeah, she's like, you need to eat healthier, you're getting fat, which you can understand. And you can tell that it's—it's—she's not trying to say it to be awful. But obviously for Joy without the context of like, we've kind of been in Evelyn's point of view, and we get from the expression on— on her face that she can't just say, I love you so much, I'm sorry. So she has to just say—she's trying to say I care about you by being like, I've noticed something about you. I want you to take care of yourself like this is the way I show I care. But for Joy, she very much just hears, you're fat, you're doing things wrong, this is bad, you're bad. And so we see immediately this like real kind of disconnects between the two of them. This gap in generations, and language and culture, etc, etc. And we just essentially have this whole very chaotic first scene that leads into her meeting with internal revenue, where things are not going to get any easier for her, put it that way. JAZZA: Yeah, where Jamie Lee Curtis is her IRS agent. So when they go up into the elevator, we see that Waymond has divorce papers with him. And it's kind of like looking at this other older couple who are very affectionate. And you can see him lamenting the fact that he doesn't have that with Evelyn. Going up in the elevator, the elevator is very slow. And then Waymond shuts down opens up again and all of a sudden is like hiding from the cameras and whatever. And he's been Raccacoonie, and he's being puppeted by Waymond from another universe, the Alpha Verse. ROWAN: Alpha Waymond. JAZZA: Alpha Waymond. ROWAN: And it does the classic, I've taken over your body from another universe thing of being like, you're in grave danger. I don't have much time, here are some instructions. I can't say any more. Very, very classic call to adventure vibes, where it's like, I love a mysterious call to adventure like that. It all depends on you kind of energy to it, which is something that's really fun about this movie for me is it's a lot of like follows that process of the call to adventure. The refusal of the call, like all of this stuff that's very Monomyth is very Joseph Campbell, it's very much how Hollywood works. But then there is just such absurdism going on alongside it, and such bizarre stuff that—kind of by its nature, because we find out later that within this multiverse that's happening, that alpha Waymond is from part of the ways in which you're able to jump through the multiverse is by doing something that's statistically bizarre and unlikely. And so the absurdism sort of is written into these small moments of the script, as well as the overall story. But I just really like how it plays with the classic call to adventure, you know, this Alpha Waymond has said, not, this is your destiny, and she refuses it at first. And it's like, no, it's not me, I'm not the person to do this, and then gradually gets pulled into it. But it has these twists to it, which I really, really loved. JAZZA: And I—I just want to ask, what—what was your favorite like anomaly that somebody had to do? Apart from having to sit on an employee of the month award and then fighting with a [28:50] ROWAN: I'll tell you my least fucking favorite, Jazza. JAZZA: Yeah, go on. ROWAN: Giving yourself four paper cuts. [28:56] JAZZA: Yeah. The paper-cut one is horrible. ROWAN: I could not watch that. I could not watch her, it's literally the worst thing I can possibly think of, so I don't think I even now could name you a single one that— that—oh, do you know what else I hated, Waymond, eating chapstick. JAZZA: Yeah, it was sooo— ROWAN: I hated it so much. JAZZA: It looked so waxy, and— ROWAN: But yes. Anyway, so basically all that to say, because I realized I've jumped ahead to like, by the way, there's a multiverse. Get with it people, you should have seen this movie so you should already know about—yes, we meet Jamie Lee Curtis as audit lady, Deirdre is the name? JAZZA: Deirdre, yes, Deirdre. ROWAN: Who is I've just written in my notes, very mean and has butt plugs in the background question mark, question mark. Because I spotted them I was like— JAZZA: Chekov's— ROWAN: Are those relevant, like Chekov's butt plug? JAZZA: Chekov's butt plug. ROWAN: But essentially Evelyn, who has heard from Alpha Waymond these instructions that she needs to do during this meeting, gets completely overwhelmed. And just I think at the point of like, I have nothing to lose, looks at the end structions and carries them out, which essentially is to swap her shoes over to the other feet to really, really think about the janitor's closet that he wants her to go into. And basically, she finds herself there somehow. What—what in the science fiction? And the screen at this point cracks, and I think it's really interesting to know a little bit of con—a little bit of a behind the scenes info. Apparently, the effects for this movie, which are stunning, were done by like five people. JAZZA: Yeah, they also had a shoot time of like, of only, I think it was less than a month? [30:36] ROWAN: That is wild, that is truly wild. Because this one I feel like is where we start to get the sort of the Sci-Fi element the effects, special effects type element with a skink. The screen cracks, and we sort of realized that she is both in the closet now, but also still in front of Jamie Lee Curtis, who I guess from now on, I'm just going to refer to [30:54] as Jamie Lee Curtis. And we get this explanation that there is, you know, from Alpha Waymond, evil spreading throughout the multiverse, it's only you who can help us. While simultaneously getting the stakes of the normal everyday plot, which is that the laundromat could be repossessed, they could lose everything in that timeline. And it's a very stressful scene, because it's essentially, her potentially, like the whole universe is collapsing, but also her life is collapsing. And I think it's a really good example of how stakes that are just really big, like the whole universe is going to be destroyed are not actually necessarily that impactful, it's much more impactful to have something that's like very specific and personal to the character. And then they manage to marry those both together, by making the whole universe is going to be destroyed, personal for her as well, which to me was just like chef's kiss, my favorite version of this kind of storytelling. JAZZA: So in the Alpha Universe, we find out that Alpha Evelyn was the person who developed this verse jumping technology, which allows you to not necessarily— to, like inhabit the bodies of like yourself in other—depending on all of the branching decisions that you've possibly made all the way through your life. But also allows you to use all of their skills as well. So if for example, oh, let's say you were Michelle Yeoh in another universe, you'd be able to do kung fu because you learned that when you were a film star. So we also found find out that the big bad in the across the multiverse is someone called Jobu Tupaki, who is going around murdering everybody trying to find Evelyn, to what end, we have no idea. ROWAN: Dun, dun, dun. At this point, she's sort of slightly convinced, not really convinced this is real. She's very confused, and in a fit of confusion punches, Jamie Lee Curtis in the face, who has just offered to give her a little bit of an extension until the end of the day. And the classic, you'll know when it's time to fight, that happened from Alpha Waymond is completely misinterpreted, because she decides, I guess now's the time to fight and just punches this lady in the face. And it's at this point that we get our first like fight sequence of the movie. And I— JAZZA: I love all of the action sequences here. It's like one big long homage to Jackie Chan movies. It's fucking brilliant. ROWAN: It's beautiful. And essentially, it's just Waymond getting possessed by Alpha Waymond and using his fanny pack/bumbag, depending on which country you're in, to fight a load of people. And it's beautiful, it's— it's wonderful. It's actually exciting. I have a real big bone to pick with all the movies that do like CGI fight sequences against like, it's just what—two CGI things fighting each other, and I just get so bored. And these fights are consists— actually had like interesting choreography, was very legible as well, because I find that that's really tricky, which was helped by the fact that they film this movie at a very high frame rate, basically, so that they would have the freedom to use slow motion at any point, not just the ones that were scripted. Because if you've ever seen slow motion in older movies, and it looks really janky, it's basically because they put slow motion on something that was filmed at a normal frame rate, meaning that your eye is like used to seeing frames flick way faster, so it looks weirdly disjointed. And so this was this, I think really paid off for them. What I'm sure was very annoying having to film with that kind of high frame rate, I think has really worked because they utilize that so well. And before he does that, he does eat chapstick which again was extremely upsetting to watch. JAZZA: Very disgusting. So it is revealed to us that Jobu is in fact, Joy. [34:36] ROWAN: Plot twist. JAZZA: Got twist plot, and she possesses the Joy in the universe where there—the IRS having a conversation with Jamie Lee Curtis punching Jamie Lee Curtis in the face. And she wanders off somewhere, maybe to come and find Evelyn in our universe, that seems to be what is happening. Evelyn and Waymond and like it's—it's like the IRS building is in lockdown, and so they're hiding. And Jamie Lee Curtis ends up doing her own verse jump, getting the skills of a high-pitch-screaming wrestler we think? And goes around and fights Waymond one on one. But then Waymond goes, because Evelyn is so nervous, doesn't seem to be able to master any verse jumping at all on her own. He goes, you're clearly not the Evelyn I've been looking for, I've gotta go now. Bye. Can you imagine? No. ROWAN: No, I can't. JAZZA: Sorry Michelle Yeoh, you're not good enough. And so then she starts herself just doing a load of random shit in order to be able to try and get the skills of her in another universe. ROWAN: Yeah, she's like what is statistically unlikely just like give me— don't do random stuff to try and make that happen. JAZZA: She is told before Waymond runs away that saying I love you yo Jamie Lee Curtis will allow her to jump to a universe where she has the abilities of kung fu. She ends up being able to do that when Jamie Lee Curtis's knee drop is literally centimeters away from her nose. ROWAN: Millimeters, she's so close to getting a knee to the face. JAZZA: So close to getting a knee to the face. And Evelyn's verse jumps to basically the life of Michelle Yeoh, the actual actress. So interestingly, did you know that Michelle Yeoh was originally asked to play basically herself? And this verse jump, I reckon was meant to actually be our universes, Michelle Yeoh. ROWAN: I'll— well because they flashed through a bunch of footage, which is of her on various red carpets that she has done previously because it's all movie she's been in. So I was like, I didn't know whether that was meant to be literally jumping to our universe, or whether it was they just use it because it was footage. But either way, I like— I like both—both of those options to be honest. JAZZA: So she turned it down because she wanted to be taken seriously. [36:59] want to like play herself. But I do like the reading of—and to be honest, that's how I've been interpreting it as well. She's Michelle Yeoh in the other universe, is totally fine. ROWAN: Yeah. And we also get a little bit of a bunch of law here. So basically, every jump causes a crack, you can re—reseal the cracks, but only with training. You can't stay in a universe isn't your own that you've jumped to, because you could die, or worse. And essentially, we find out what the worst option is, is what happened to Jobu aka Joy, were in the Alpha Verse, that version of Joy's mind was splintered because Alpha Everlyn essentially pushed her too far. She made verse jump too many times. And now she's experiencing all of the universe, everywhere all at once. JAZZA: All at once. ROWAN: Everything, It's the title. And so she can verse jump, but also sort of manipulate matter itself at will seemingly. And so no one knows what Jobu wants, they just know that she's looking for Evelyn. And we—this essentially is like a little dump, but it doesn't necessarily feel like a bad law dump or like just exposition because you're listening to it going. Okay, okay, this is all information that I do need because right now, I don't know what the hell is going on. Because I am Evelyn, and I'm just like, oh, God, I just want to go back and finish my taxes, I guess, and be Michelle on the red carpet. But that is not her fate, unfortunately. JAZZA: So there's—out of this law dump come. I think two of the strongest themes of the movie that resonate with people the most, one is intergenerational, the differences between generations, and how relationships between generations are pressured from first-generation immigrants. So the fact that in the Alpha Universe, Evelyn pushed Joy too hard, made her crack, made her resent. And kind of like reflecting those sometimes difficult relationships, that it's similar across other phenomena like working-class parents, but especially with immigrant parents, that experience being represented there. And then also, the whole idea of fracturing, and each choice that you make in your life, creating a completely new branch of reality and possibility, really reflects people who choose to or are forced to go to another country to uproot themselves and go to another country. Evelyn, when she becomes Michelle Yeoh, and gets the skills of Michelle Yeoh, gets to see the world that she would have had and the life she would have had if she had never left for the United States with Waymond. And there's always whenever you leave a place, you make one of those big decisions. There's always the thought of oh my god, what would my life be like if I never left? Would it be better if I never left? The life I have now it's a struggle. Would it have been better if I had just stayed? And that I love the way that that is pulled through to the whole idea of kind of like the alternate realities and splintering. Like this is I think Sci-Fi and I didn't even really think of this as Sci-Fi until I saw it classified as such on IMDb. But this is Sci-Fi as its—at its absolute best, as a reflection of the real-world phenomena that happen for so many people. ROWAN: Yeah, I've been reading a bunch of like reviews and this is one that I think touches on that really nicely critic for The Washington Post. [40:22] says it's not only that the multiverse acts as a metaphor for the immigrant Asian-American experience, or a convenient parable for the dislocations and personality splits suffered by hyphenated that is Asian-American citizens. It also becomes a rather heavy vehicle for confronting and negotiating Asian pessimism, which I think is a really interesting idea of like, yeah, the— the literal hyphenation of you the— the ways in which your identity is split between and across, being something that's mirrored quite literally in this like cracking that's happening across these different multiverses. We also see at this point like the powers that Jobu has which includes like confetti cannoning a man's body apart. And various other very exciting, very exciting things which we lo—you know, I'm like, you know what I love to see, but also you are absolutely terrifying. JAZZA: Also if no, I'm sorry, I'm turning giant dildos into a murder weapon. ROWAN: Yes, stunning. JAZZA: This [41:18] and dildos, brilliant. ROWAN: Very into it. At this point, we also get Michelle jumping to a universe where everyone has hot dogs instead of fingers, I'm losing my mind. Just incredible work all around. And also, we get this moment where we're starting to see the big universal multiverse drama and the personal drama clash together, when Michelle basically is—is separating Jobu as a concept from her daughter Joy, because she says, you're the reason my daughter doesn't call anymore and dropped out of college and thinks that she's gay. So there's a sense of like, everything that's bad is not actually Joy, it's Jobu taking over her body or influencing her in some way, or being connected to her. And that she thinks that being gay is like one of these bad things like not caring and not having ambition. And being gay is like one of these things that she still doesn't support, which I think is— is very telling when we look at before where she—her excuse for not telling the granddad is like, oh, he's old, it's kind of like saying, oh, it's you know, he's old, he might be— it might like kill him all this kind of stuff, but never really admitting that she herself finds this difficult to deal with. And so we are like, this is going to be a journey for her as well in that way. And this is where we get to the bagel. JAZZA: Before we get to the bagel. ROWAN: Okay. JAZZA: This is— this is where I'm like, this is an explicitly queer movie. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: It's not just kind of like a fact, this is about the queer experience. And something that I've only recently like clocked onto, I've watched this movie. I've watched the movie six times. In the—in the hot dog hand universe, I didn't even clock that the Ja— that Jamie Lee Curtis and Michelle Yeoh, in a queer relationship. ROWAN: How did you not clock that? JAZZA: I just like, obviously, I knew that it existed, but I never like when—oh, like Evelyn is also potentially at least in one of these universes, is queer as well. And showing kind of like those—a lot of this movie is about being distracted and caring about things that don't actually in the grand scheme of things matter, and deciding what you actually care about. We see that when Jobu is busy kind of like massacring all of these bodyguards. And goes, wait, you're still hung up on the fact that I'm gay in this universe? As kind of like, I can't believe that this is something that this Evelyn has decided to actually still fixate on. And it's— I think that there is a possible reading here where Evelyn herself is maybe queer in some way, shape, or form. But because of the fact that she was born in particular culture, comes from a particular time, got married to somebody who's actually trying to divorce her, was never able, and never had the freedom to be able to actually experiment with herself and—and find out about herself in that way. And actually, one of the many reasons that many people choose to emigrate and find a new life in another country, is so that they— their children can have a better opportunities and be able to kind of like be whoever they want to be. But then there is sometimes this brush up against who your kid then, therefore, wants to be, you'll have critic— critiques of like, oh, you've become too American. I don't understand all of this queerness and things like that. And I I love that kind of like relationship between Evelyn and Joy—oh, Jobu being represented here. But yeah, they're showing the bagel. ROWAN: Yeah, then there's a bagel. So basically Jo—okay, listen, stay with me here you guys. Jobu has created a bagel. And everything bagel with everything on it. That's quite literally everything in the world. All concepts, all matter, all things, which is all also kind of created a black hole that could destroy the entire multiverse. Classic. But Jobu is basically like nothing matters, so who cares? Let's all just get sucked into a bagel, that's a vibe for me. JAZZA: She's experienced Everything Everywhere All at Once. And therefore is like, well, everything matters, therefore nothing matters—matters. So what the fuck is the point anymore? ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: What is this world? ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: Essentially is Jobu's philosophy. ROWAN: Just total nihilism, just total, just like screw everything. And this is the interesting thing, right? We've heard the idea that she's looking for Evelyn, but we don't know why. And what she basically wants is for Evelyn to come into the bagel with her and for them to be dead and gone, and not have to experience anything, and just be free of the like agonies of life, and living, and experience. And it's kind of like Jobu, where's your therapist, I beg of you. We need— we need to, we need to sit down and talk about the bagel babes. JAZZA: So we—basically Jobu goes to Evelyn, I wanted somebody else to experience this with me. Her and her mother is really the only one who is able to because she invented verse jumping. Evelyn doesn't want Joy—she doesn't want joy to feel like this. She doesn't want Joy to have this nihilism as like the basis of her existence. And so Evelyn decides to do the thing that Waymond earlier said was worse than death, and splinter her mind so that she is across as many different universes as possible so that she experiences the same thing as her daughter. And so that she can get there and then bring her back. Essentially, this is the way. So we end up with Evelyn jumping to get the powers of somebody in one of the universes as she falls over and blind herself and then becomes an opera singer. As we all know, in one universe, she is one of those pizza sign spinners and manages to use that in some fighting. ROWAN: She is a chef who is friends with a man, who is being Ratatouilled by a raccoon. JAZZA: By a raccoon, Raccacoonie. ROWAN: Classic. JAZZA: Which is a better movie, it would have been a better movie, I think. [theme] JAZZA: Hello, friends Jazza here from another space and another time. Just popping in to humbly ask you to consider supporting this podcast financially. It makes a huge difference, and it keeps us on the airwaves, frankly. If you like what we're doing and want to support queer media, then you can sign up for our Patreon for as little as $5 a month. For that fee, that low fee less than like a fancy Starbucks, you can become a [47:47] called Baby Gay. And as a Baby Gay, you get access to our thriving Discord with hundreds of members who all chat about, not only movies but queer media and general chitchat that they love. It's a really lovely community. We've been going crazy about stuff like The Last of Us episodes and all of the Oscars hype. It's been a good time in the Discord recently. What's more, those Baby Gays get to join our monthly watch-along, which really is the jewel in the crown of our Patreon perks where we all watch a movie together once a month. In the run-up to the Oscars, we'll be watching something Oscars themed. Maybe The Whale, maybe not. If that sounds fun to you, check out our Patreon for that and many other perks. It really does keep the podcast afloat, especially in these difficult times. So thank you very much for considering supporting us. As returning listeners, know we are part of Multitude a collective of creators who make audio nibbles that you can listen to [48:48] really, really good. This week, I want to walk you through some of the refreshed parks that they offer to their patrons. Important hence separate to our patrons of the Queer Movie Podcast. But you get loads of really cool stuff, for example, my dears at the $10 tier who are called The Insiders, you get access to all of the behind-the-scenes stuff at Multitude. All of the drama going down in the office, all of the pet photos, and all of that kind of stuff. You also get to see the crew-only Instagram accounts, first dibs on any and all Multitude update coming down the pike. Plus, all insiders get 10% off all Multitude logo merch, and that is forever. There were loads of other perks available as well, that all have fantastic perks all the way up to the founders, which is the highest tier, where you can get hangout sessions for one to two hours with certain hosts, which is truly amazing access. So go over to Multitude Patreon and consider having a look there and seeing what you might be interested in, it can really be worth it. We are also still supported by Squarespace, who can help you to buy a domain and create a website. So a friend of mine was putting together an event in New York. Did I mention I live in New York now? And had a ton of amazing artwork that they had made in order to accompany this event. I was very naughty, and I told them to use our link, which is squarespace.com/queermovie. And I'm going to tell you what I told them, dear listener, that then convinced them to use our code. So not only does Squarespace allow you to centralize all of your assets, and platform presences in one place. It also lets you set up a shop where people can buy things from you, or even donate if they feel so inclined. Not only that high-tech analytics present a pretty good overview of how your posts are doing, how your content is doing, what's selling well. And it's all done with pretty, pretty graphics, so you can tell what is working and what isn't. And it also makes all events in New York instantly successful. Yeah, it's true. All you have to do in order to get all of those good things, maybe not the successful New York event stuff. All you have to do is go to squarespace.com/queermovie. And when you're set up to make all of your digital dreams come true, you can use the offer code, QUEERMOVIE that's all one word, to save 10% points off of your first purchase of a website or a domain. Remember to go to squarespace.com/queermovie. Now, back to the show. [theme] ROWAN: I have to ask at this point Jazza, have we reached act two yet? I forget when act two happens. JAZZA: Okay. So, so that was Act One, by the way, listener that was— ROWAN: [51:39] JAZZA: Handily, handily the movie splits it into three acts for us, that was everything. And then we go into act two, which is everywhere, but what I have also called the party and its aftermath. Because [51:54] ROWAN: Because the New Year's party is happening. JAZZA: Yeah, because as Evelyn's mind is cracking and she gets exposed to all of this and she becomes susceptible to all of the nihilism, by the way, that is in this just before this section, a fight scene with Michelle Yeoh and two people with butt plugs in them because that's the thing they had to do to get the martial arts skills. ROWAN: Classic. JAZZA: Amazing. One of the greatest pieces of cinema—cinema ever fucking made. I'm just annoyed, the whole thing was pixelated. But we ended up with her suspecting to the nihilism. And then she also just kind of like gives up and it feels like Evelyn, well, she dies, she dies in this one universe and then get sucked into the universe where she's having the Chinese New Year's celebration, where the IRS are arriving, and they're going to possess everything. ROWAN: I have my notes here was New Year's party is coming, there will be so much aftermath. Because I'm sure at this point, everyone has listened to the podcast already. But if you haven't, there is always an act in gay movies, that's the party in its aftermath. And they literally threw a party and they kept talking about this party. And I was like, we're gonna get so much fucking aftermath. We love to see it. So yeah, basically, we've reached—she's reached a point in this movie where she's basically like, yeah, you're right, everything is random and meaningless. Every single verse that I—that she's in, because she's in every universe all at once, all the time with her daughter. JAZZA: It's the movie, it's the title of the movie. ROWAN: It's the title of a movie. She's piñata in one universe, she's a rock in one universe, she's made of animation in one of the universe— JAZZA: Ah, the rock universe. ROWAN: —You've never—who would have thought that the rocks could make us feel so many fucking emotions. And there's a really, really sad bit where basically, Joy says to Evelyn, like, I was really hoping that someone else would have this experience, have themselves crack in this way. And then tell me that they had figured it out and everything was okay. And that I was just—I was just thinking about this wrong, and they would experience it and they will be able to tell me the meaning of life, and tell me what was actually happening and what I should be living for. And that hasn't happened because you essentially have turned just as chaotic and nihilistic and like, everything is meaningless as I have. And that was pretty— that's pretty rough. That's a pretty rough message for us to get at this point in the movie. So you know, spoiler alert, though, it gets better. JAZZA: Yeah. So as Evelyn kind of gives up, and he's about to step into the bagel, Waymond steps up, normal Waymond, not Alpha Waymond, because he's dead now, he died at some point. This is when I begin sobbing because Waymond is just being like, I don't understand why everybody is fighting. Why can't everybody just be kinder to one another? So this is where we have the trifecta, and it is complete. So we have Joy, who is nihilism, we have Evelyn who is existentialism, and then we have Waymond, who is optimism and absurdism. So those three philosophies, kind of interacting as these three main characters and the different ways that they go to the world, nihilism obviously everything is obviously, you read Wikipedia. Nihilism, obviously being where nothing matters, so why should you care? Existentialism is we can find meaning in kind of like the choices that we make in our live, And absurdism is kind of like finding the—it realizing how ridiculous everything is, and so laughing along with it anyway. And that optimism that can potentially come with that. So these few characters represent that, Those like three philosophies for life. And this speech from Waymond is—is one of the most heartwarming wonderful things because I think it's—it's such an optimistic take on humanity. And sometimes we need that optimism and I— I fucking loved it. So Waymond ended up influencing Evelyn. Evelyn realizes that the thing that is going to get her through this, even though that she is seeing that nothing matters, the thing that matters to her is Joy, her daughter, and so she decides that she is now going to help everybody else who's trying to fight her, including Jamie Lee Curtis. She's going to fight everybody and find out what they're thi—the thing that brings them joy. So she faces off against all of these minions. Jamie Lee Curtis, what is Jamie Lee Curtis's joy? Isn't it—is it— Jamie Lee Curtis finds out that she's lovable. There's one character—oh, the Raccacoonie guy, realizes he really loves being controlled by raccoons. ROWAN: He is played by Mike from Glee as well. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: Which I immediately clocked and was like, absolutely perfect. Love it, beautiful. That boy I was like if they don't make him dance at some point during this, it would have been a wasted movie. And he does have a little bit of like more fight choreography style stuff, but I'm like I can see your dance roots in there, Harry, I can see them. JAZZA: And she makes two people dance and they become married in one universe. One of the Daniels, one of the directors, she takes him into another universe and exposes him to S&M and that's what brings him joy. ROWAN: I—the fact— I didn't know that—that was one of the Daniels, [57:06] JAZZA: That's one of the Daniels. ROWAN: I love that even more. JAZZA: It's so fucking brilliant. And then she reaches—so Jobu has summoned the bagel that's going to destroy everything and she's about to step into it. And am I sobbing? Yes, I still am. Jobu goes to like start to fight Evelyn her mother, and then Evelyn also like does like some kung fu, goes to fight, and then opens her arms to try and hug her. And eventually, Evelyn like they started rustling in tussling, and Evelyn, let Jobu go into the despair of the bagel. And that's kind of like—that's kind of like the way that this thing— no it isn't. ROWAN: Uh-huh tricks you— tricks you guys. So this I think is— okay, so again, what I found really interesting that I've just talked about before the idea of the big multiverse fight sequence finale, versus the very personal finale, and that the very personal is almost always going to be more interesting. And they tied it together so well because they have the really dramatic like, no don't go into the bagel, like trying to save her daughter she's being pulled in, which is like a very physically dramatic finale. But the actual moment is that it has that pathos and have that emotionality to it, is within our Evelyn's universe at this party where essentially Evelyn is like Joy is saying to Evelyn, like, we're just too different. You know, I'm tired, I just want to go, like us being together hurts the both of us, we need to go our separate ways. Let me go. And so her version of letting me go is very literal. Like I—we just need to be apart from each other. Like I get that we're mother and daughter but we just fucking make each other miserable. And it's this clear parallel to like the very dramatic Sci-Fi let me go into this bagel situation. And that that to me is just so perfect. And then in between we get the set— we get like the absurdist version of them as rocks and having this scene where— JAZZA: With googly eyes like we haven't even mentioned the googly eyes. ROWAN: Oh Joy's googly eye rock falling off a cliff. And then Evelyn's rock just falling after her. Oh, it's so beautiful. JAZZA: Like literally laughing and crying at stationary rocks that have subtitles. Like how has this—how does the [59:26] do that? Oh, it's so fucking good. ROWAN: It's essentially like we also get this again like very human ideas of like change and Evelyn being kind of taking up the call, so like breaking the cycle with her dad the idea of like, my daughter ended up being this like stubborn aimless mess just like her mother, and she's perfect that way. And that she gave someone— she says you gave her someone kind patient and forgiving to make up for all that she likes. Talking about her and Waymond, and her understanding of Waymond now, being so much clearer than it was at the beginning. That this is like helped her marriage, helped her relationship with her daughter. Just oh, she's—and also the idea of like, yeah, it doesn't make sense. You're saying the universe doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that I would be like, still love you even though you only visit when you need something. And like I— you know, I hate tattoos and your covered in them and like, I could be anywhere else in the entire world. In fact, at this point, she's like a good bit anywhere else in the multiverse, it doesn't make sense, but like, just want to be with you. And like, it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense, essentially. And I weep and I cry, and so does Jazza. Jazza at this point is just simply 100% tear. JAZZA: Can I say—so I watched it this morning at an AMC and I cried so much. Have you ever cried so much that you dehydrated and you don't have any more tears? ROWAN: Yeah, all the time. JAZZA: That was me— I've met—that's never happened to me before, yeah. ROWAN: [1:00:49] like a headache, a headache that just all come fucking zooming. And so that essentially, in every single universe, they reconcile, there's no universe that she wants to be where her daughter isn't. And that has always been her strength throughout this, right? So like, we have this bit at the beginning where she says, like, you're getting fat, you need to look after yourself, whatever. But like in her actions, she shows that she cares about her daughter. She's willing to go through the thing that will like split her consciousness and like destroy her mind and maybe make her go crazy, and potentially she'll be dead. But she's immediately like, as soon as she knows that, that's an option, that it might help her daughter she does it. And so in her actions, she's showing love from the very beginning, and it just feels like it's about being able to show it in a way that her daughter can appreciate and a language in which they both understand, both like, you know, metaphorically and literally, and vice versa, that they can both kind of start to understand each other. And know that meaning is the meaning that they make
Let's talk about M. Night Shyamalan's newest, and gayest, movie - were Rowan and Jazza held captive by its story, or just left wishing for the end of the world? Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. Head over to queermoviepodcast.gay and get a FREE .gay domain name of your choice for your own website or brand courtesy of their registrar partner Porkbun—for 1-year! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd TRANSCRIPT JAZZA: Hello, everyone. Just before we jump into the main episode today, I wanted to thank our two top-level patrons, Jennifer, and Toby, who are supporting us on the rainbow parent tier, which is absolutely bloody amazing. Do you want to join them, head over to Patreon and you don't have to donate as much as they do, but we'd really appreciate anything that you can give to us. More about Patreon coming a little bit later. On with the episode, my darlings. [theme] JAZZA: Welcome to the Queer Movie Podcast, celebrating the best— ROWAN: —and worst— JAZZA: —in LGBTQ plus cinema one glorious genre at a time. ROWAN: I'm Rowan Ellis. JAZZA: And I am Jazza John. ROWAN: Each episode we discuss a movie from a different genre of cinema. JAZZA: This episode's genre is— JAZZA AND ROWAN: Queer Chiller. JAZZA: It's so cold in here. ROWAN: I—Yeah, fully, I would say everyone I do not understand what this genre is. It's like a thriller, but more chill. I don't—but yeah, you're right, Jazza is right. This is like what everyone has been describing it as. Like, if you go on the Wikipedia article for this movie, literally the quotes from critics call it a chiller. And I'm like, we're behind, baby. We—we need to—we run a podcast about genres and we're like, what the hell does this even mean? JAZZA: You know what, it's handy for us because we've already done queer thriller. I think. ROWAN: That's true. So this technically is a different genre. JAZZA: It is technically different genre, sure. Today, we're gonna be talking about the M. Night Shyamalan adaptation of the Paul Tremblay book, Cabin at the End of the World, Knock at the Cabin. Not to be confused with the 2011 film, Cabin in the Woods, which is much better. ROWAN: I mean, yeah, that doesn't [1:45] I feel like it needs any kind of argument from me. That's very obviously true. But before we get started, sexing some grasshoppers, Jazza, every single—Jazza—listen everyone. I think it's become clear by now that Jazza writes the scripts for this beginning bit and often they write it literally like [2:02] together, and I don't look at it beforehand because I'm an idiot who trust them. So I guess that's a reference to them catching grasshoppers and discussing whether their boy grasshoppers or girl grasshoppers or whatever. Okay. JAZZA: Yeah, she say going around. sexing grasshoppers. ROWAN: [2:19] JAZZA: [2:19] is called when you—when you put down like the sex of the animal, it's called sexing. Thank you [2:25] for giving me that information. ROWAN: Okay, sure. So I'm so sorry, let me start that extremely normal sentence again. But before we start sexing some grasshoppers Jazza, what's the gayest thing you've done since the last episode? JAZZA: So I've got a pretty cool one. I'm— I—I haven't been legitimately intimate famous, arguably ever. And so me getting noticed off of the internet doesn't happen very often. So when it does, it's a lovely little special occasion. I have been recognized on Grindr in New York, this week by the lovely Jaime. Hello, Jamie, thank you for listening. ROWAN: Hi, Jamie. JAZZA: Hi, Jamie. I will say we—we exchanged a couple of pleasantries. No dick pics were exchanged. ROWAN: Okay. Good to know. JAZZA: I just want to make that very clear. But thank you very much. If you see me on Grindr say hello. [3:16] ROWAN: Sorry, I just wanna—just— just one quick follow-up question, Jazza. How far away was Jamie? JAZZA: Jamie was—uh what was it? ROWAN: Because I know exactly how far away because you sent me the screencap of this conversation. JAZZA: I did. Yeah. ROWAN: And it was extremely [3:32] JAZZA: Oh, it was a 100—no, it's 45 meters away. ROWAN: Literally your roommate. JAZZA: I have been— I have been staying in Hell's Kitchen Bay. And I think the grid stops at like someone is 200 meters away. So that's not extraordinary for this part of New York. Did I mention I live in New York? ROWAN: No, I don't think you have. JAZZA: No, no. Okay. Cool. Rowan, how about you, what's the gayest thing you've done? ROWAN: Honestly, I think it was watching episode three of The Last Of Us. That truly made me feel so gay. And we— I immediately after watching that episode, message Jazza to be like please can we do a little special episode, bonus episode of the podcast about episode three of The Last Of Us, so that is in the works hypothetically. JAZZA: It is in the works. ROWAN: Unless you never see it from us, in which case it was never—it was never in the works. JAZZA: Allegations only. We're too late for kind of like the hype around the episode, but it is such a great episode. I think we are going to make at some point when we have some time. ROWAN: Yeah. I mean, please don't tell me that because I'm genuinely thinking of doing my March video about quiz zombie media. So let's just say it's like always relevant. Like— JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: —zombie constantly alive, never dead. JAZZA: Brilliant. [theme] JAZZA: First, we're going to be talking about the background of M. Night Shyamalan and asking why? Well then be splitting the movie into three acts and discussing the plot with our usual sassiness. ROWAN: Jazza then has some extra discussion for the end of the movie, which has me very excited with anticipation, because they haven't told me what the hell their bit of context is that they're going to talk about which— I don't think we've ever done that before. Normally, we tell each other too much. And we have to keep being like, save it for the podcast, stop telling me your opinion, stop talking to me like we're friends. We are already allowed to talk on the podcast. So we will be spoiling this movie as we do with every one of these episodes. So if you care about going into these things fresh, we would encourage you to watch it before listening to the rest of the episode. JAZZA: So if you've come back, welcome back. For those of you who stayed, thanks for staying. Without further ado, let's sell the shit out of this air fryer and review Knock at the Cabin. [theme] ROWAN: So really, with this movie, I was—we always talk about the context that we can do these movies in, and a lot of the time it's very obvious. And there's very obvious like the history of the genre, like with a horror episode, or the—the history of the movie was really interesting, or with the moonlight, things like that. With this one, I was like, I guess, the M. Night Shyamalan is like the interesting aspect of this movie, essentially. Other than you know, they let gays be main characters. And so— JAZZA: How generous by the way. ROWAN: How generous of them. JAZZA: Thank you so much for your allyship, Night. ROWAN: So it has come to my attention that I feel like I was kind of growing up in the heyday of this man. Because I have spoken to some people who are younger, like not—not wildly young, but they are just like, not familiar with him. Because they just weren't old enough to watch his movies. Even though his movies were like 12 rated, they were sort of like, oooh, their horror movies— JAZZA: Sure. ROWAN: Kind of thing. So like 12 rated in that way. JAZZA: The fans of M. Night Shyamalan that I am aware of tend to be our age, a little bit older, like movie geeks. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: And I think it's because he had some of the— some of the most iconic movies of like the late 90s and 2000s. ROWAN: Yeah. And then he fell off a—fell off a [7:04] But the funny thing is, if so the way that people remember him, I think because of the Sixth Sense, which was like definitely this absolute breakout movie, which he—which he also wrote this— it came out as the same year as another film that he wrote, Stuart Little. JAZZA: Oh my god, really, I have— ROWAN: 1999 and— JAZZA: No, shut up! ROWAN: —did rewrite, She's all that. JAZZA: Wow. ROWAN: All 1999, an absolute stellar year. We don't talk enough about his incredible Stuart Little, where the twist was the very first moment of the movie where the child was a mouse. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: So notoriously, he like has— JAZZA: No one saw it coming. ROWAN: He has these big twists in his movies, that's what he's known for. However, a lot of people talk about the idea that he essentially like went downhill with The Village. I feel very strongly that The Village is not a bad movie, and that at the time that it came out, it was a well-received movie. And because of Lady in the Water, which came afterward two years later, in 2006, that people absolutely slated. Everyone wanted to be really cool, and sound like they had always known he was trashed hack. And so—and so they start hating on The Village to be like, oh, I knew before anyone else. I've always not liked him, which I think is very, very rude of them. JAZZA: I agree. I think— I think The Village is well, it was his last movie that I enjoyed. Like I— ROWAN: [8:25] Yeah, yeah. And people—people did enjoy it. And I—like genuinely, it's one of those movies where like, when you don't know the twist going into it, like that was so brilliantly done. And it made complete sense logically within the movie, and it all came together, and it was really interesting. And I think it's just when you know the twist, and then you come back to it with the attitude of like, this guy's a hack like the—he never might writes good stuff. Loads of people just retrospectively decided they hate that. But when you look at what he's done, he doesn't have some like, massive, like 10 feature film discography before that, where he was writing all these twists, right? He has like the Sixth Sense is his big one, Unbreakable, and then Signs. And then The Village. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: So it's not—and also obviously Stuart Little. But so it's really interesting to me that he—he managed to get such a huge name for himself, where it was seen as like this big fool of this iconic director after what is essentially like three features that have this element to them that he was known for. And so yeah, he essentially is known as the twist director. So he also essentially after The Village comes out has Lady in the Water that was the beginning of the end for him. He does the Last Airbender, which was [9:45] JAZZA: Oh my God, [9:46] ROWAN: After Earth was him as well, which I forget because it—because the [9:51] JAZZA: With Will Smith and— ROWAN: Put onto Jaden Smith and Will Smith. Split which has a lot of like, question mark, question mark around it, and Glass, old which is the everyone ages on the beach one from two years ago now— JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: Because it was 2021. And now we've got Knock at the Cabin. But I will say there's like this to me this movie I mean— I feel like we've already sort of hinted at it. It's not necessarily pulling him back up to a Sixth Sense levels for either of us? JAZZA: No. That's it. ROWAN: Yeah, that's—that's the review. JAZZA: This is the thing, so he doesn't really do big studio pieces anymore. And I don't— I think it's the last [10:31] it's the last time that he worked with a big studio. And so most of his stuff now is it leans more indie. But the thing is, it all still does really, really well, because the M. Night Shyamalan brand is so strong. ROWAN: Which is wild, because he has like three times as many flops as he does successful movies— JAZZA: 100% ROWAN: —in terms of so—in terms of the way that people view the movies, and how critically they—they've been kind of responded to. JAZZA: But he has been so influential I think, especially on people who, like I said, were around our age, maybe a little bit older, who were first being introduced to movies at the time? Like his early movies especially was such experiences. And I think in the— in the— in a similar way where stuff like the Lord of the Rings, and the way that that was such an influential series of movies for people who then went into work in the industry, I think that M. Night Shyamalan is that for a lot of media critics, for a lot of people who now work in this. And so there is that really firm fan base that he has, and it really is like a fanboy fan base. ROWAN: Yeah. And I will I—so I think as well completely agree with you. And I think that it ties in even further because when you think about movies that have big twists in them, or big like shocking moments, they often come with a higher age rating. So the really classic twists throughout the time, you're looking at like the usual suspects, you're looking at seven things like that, where it's like there's either a big twist or a shocking moment. And so you're right, this idea of an introduction to cinema. I remember watching like The Sixth Sense, watching The Village, like when I was 12. And I was like 11,10, 11,12 years old, and like they were going to be the first movies I ever really got to see which had a massive twist in them. And that showed me what it could be because before that I'm really consuming children's media that ultimately doesn't really work, like twists aren't really a children's media thing so much, and it was this idea of like yeah, trusting your audience to be able to like piece things together by the end, they're being a puzzle to solve, they're being like some more other levels to it, other layers other than just being a good movie because like Sixth Sense I think, the reason why it works so well as a movie with a twist, will not spoil it even though I'm sure literally everyone knows the twist of that movie even if they haven't seen it. JAZZA: I— can I tell you something? I've never seen the Six Sense all the way through. ROWAN: Oh, it would destroy— it would fully destroy you. That is a film that I watched as like a 10-year-old, but you are a little bit baby and you absolutely be psychologically destroyed by it. JAZZA: Oh, is it actually scary? [12:59] ROWAN: Well, okay. So I hasten to add that I watched this when I was like 10 years old. JAZZA: Uh-huh. ROWAN: So it was— it was not like terrifying. It was— I really liked horror movies as a kid. So it was like enjoyably frightening for me through the first watch. And it's one of those movies with a twist where you can watch it again after you know the twist and it becomes almost like a different movie to you. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: And you get you— every time you watch it, there is something you can get from it. There's clues you can spot, there's things that like are exciting, which I think is like the best kind of twist movie. It's one where the twist feels— JAZZA: It changes. ROWAN: —unpredictable, but inevitable at the same time. And so what this does though? Being known as someone who makes these twist movies, means that inevitably when people go and see his films, even though a lot of the films he's put out since don't have big twists, people expect that. And I definitely feel like that had a big effect on my experience watching this movie. Because I was really finding myself searching, it is a very simple movie and that it has a very like high concept premise of these four people believe that they will be saving the world by making this—essentially making this family choose to kill one of the three members of the family. They believe they will be able to save the world. That's a very high-concept premise, you can explain it in one sentence, and it's all basically in one location. So for me, I'm like, oh, this is primed for a twist. There is something going on here. So everything—I was looking at everything with meaning. I was trying to figure it out. I was like, I wrote so many notes of like things that I was predicting were going to happen. And then there just wasn't a twist at— but the movie also wasn't good enough for me to feel like it was better off not having one. JAZZA: I think that is a twist. ROWAN: Okay, controversial. Did I just— did I just misunderstand this extremely complex movie, Jazza? JAZZA: Well, I like I think— ROWAN: It's a twist that gay? Because that is—that is a twist. JAZZA: More or less? No, bae. I think the twist is the fact that the [15:00] meant to be the fact that the apocalypse is real. ROWAN: Okay, but here's the thing Jazza, that's in the trailer. JAZZA: Yeah. I saw. I didn't watch the trailer. ROWAN: Oh, okay. JAZZA: And I— from reading— from it and having now watched the trailer, I'm like oh, that is literally the whole movie. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: And it would— if you had seen the trailer, it literally ruins the whole thing. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: And I think although I will say, I think it marginally probably makes the viewing experience better. It doesn't make it significantly better. But I think that we're set up, we're meant to believe that this is for like fundamentalist, religious—religious bananas, bananas people, who have come here and like performing and doing a homophobia. And I think it's meant to be oh, this is actually real, and that's like the big twist. Oh, they— they kill one of their dads and now everything's fine. And that's meant to be a, wow, I can't believe you did that. But obviously, it doesn't really have that gravitas to it. ROWAN: But to me, that's not a twist, that's just one of the options that are laid out at the beginning of the movie already. JAZZA: Yeah. And that is from the first like—after the first 20 minutes when they've tied the gay couple up. That is—that becomes what the movie is. The movie is oh, either this thing happens or this thing happens. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: And one of the things happens. ROWAN: And so I was always searching for that third thing or the twist. And I had a bunch of idea. I was like listen, buddy, M, my friend. I got some options for you that I can point out as I go through. I also made my notes in the cinema. I watched this in the cinema, and so they are so incoherent in terms of the—oh, Jazza also did. I'm looking at some of these notes and I'm like, I really hope I can remember what plot point this goes with. Because one is just in all caps, baby got a gun. So I'm hoping that I can figure— I'm assuming that's the child got the gun at some point. JAZZA: If the child, I don't think he gets the gun at any point [16:56] ROWAN: Oh, I think baby might have been one of the guys then. JAZZA: Yeah, yeah, yeah it is. ROWAN: I think maybe Eric is baby. I also have— JAZZA: Andrew. I can't believe you're mixing up the gays. ROWAN: I'm so sorry. Leonard what? I also wrote down, I writt— I read this out to myself just now, and I was like why did I put rip on, on there? And I was like, oh, it's because the note is meant to be RIP Ron. So yeah, some clearly, some very intellectual notes, which you will know if you've listened to the podcast before. It's entirely what this podcast is about, intellect all the way. I will say I might save it for the end, but do you know anything about the book it was based on? JAZZA: Yeah, and the book is better, apparently. I've never read the book. ROWAN: So do you know the big—the—the difference? The ending? JAZZA: Well, there's two big differences. ROWAN: Okay. Should we talk about the ending difference at the end, wHen we talk about the end? JAZZA: I think let's just do it now. ROWAN: Spoilers, guys. JAZZA: I mean, we've given them the spoiler warning [17:49] So the first difference is the fact that when it's shot and killed. ROWAN: Yes. JAZZA: So then, because it was an accident, she doesn't count as a willing sacrifice in like the weird fucked up law of this universe. And so then you have the gay couple who have now got a dead child. Now have to kill one of the other ones, and only— the only one of them is left and has to like, be alone for the rest of their life. Fucking depressing. Highest stakes, I wanted that. But I think M. Night Shyamalan is too much of a pussy to kill the child. ROWAN: I like how in the movie if you know the—the story how it originally went that they were adopting, that's very funny, because they essentially are like, hey, kid, go all the way over there to the tree house, so that we can't accidentally shoot you in a scuffle like in the book. JAZZA: Yeah. Exactly. ROWAN: She's great. JAZZA: And then the difference at the end from what I understand is that there's ambiguity that we actually never as a reader know, whether or not the apocalypse is real or not. ROWAN: Hmm, interesting. JAZZA: They just kind of like drive off and that's left hanging. And I would have also preferred that to the very on-the-nose kind of weird magical realism that the end of this movie has. ROWAN: Oh boy. Well, I guess we'll get into that in this next section where we actually tell you from beginning to end, what was going on and what we were thinking about it while we were watching. That I was about to be like The Cabin in the Woods, The Knock at the—The Knock at the Door—no. JAZZA: The Cabin in the— ROWAN: The Cabin door. Knock at the Cabin door? Knock at the Cabin. Knock on the cabin? JAZZA: Wait, isn't it not at the cabin? ROWAN: It can be on the—you wouldn't knock on the—knock on the door, but you would knock at the cabin. JAZZA: It's not. It's not. ROWAN: Knock on—knock at— JAZZA: At the cabin. You Knock at the Cabin. ROWAN: As we discuss Knock at the Cabin. [theme] ROWAN: Okay, so, Jazza do you have segments for this? Do you have acts? JAZZA: Yes I do. ROWAN: I find it really hard to place acts because of my ADHD, my sense of time is really fucked. So I can do acts when I have something in front of me and I can—I can check in with a timer to see like, is it around a third of the way? So I don't have the acts, so I'm very willing to bow to your knowledge and your expertise on this. JAZZA: Sure. I will be honest I have very much forced a round peg into a square hole here with the party this afternoon, but I— ROWAN: I was gonna say. JAZZA: But I— I have forced it in, it is there— ROWAN: Okay I love that. JAZZA: —which kind of liberal, a really liberal idea of what a party is. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: In this case, it's murder. ROWAN: Love that. For those who don't know, I feel like I do this every time I'm like for new— for new listeners. JAZZA: Firstly, welcome. ROWAN: Welcome. Also, when we split it the movie into those, we always have different names for the thirds. And for some reason, every single gay movie has a party and its aftermath is one of—at least one of the third. Sometimes two, sometimes even three. So I love that you were committed to that bit. And you have managed to theorize that murder is a party. Ah sorry, can—please continue, Jazza. JAZZA: So my opening act is boyfriend twins, try S&M for the first time. ROWAN: Oh, I love that. That's very—that's very clever, Jazza. JAZZA: Thank you so much [21:10] ROWAN: Very witty. [21:12] JAZZA: So we opened up with this movie with the breakout star of this film, uh Kristen Cui, the seven-year-old child—adopted child of the boyfriend twins. ROWAN: Tell me why I thought you were about to say the breakout star, Dave Batista. Also fair, you know what, he's great. JAZZA: Yeah. I actually don't think he was very good in this movie. ROWAN: Wow. JAZZA: Which I—apparently is controversial, but oh, well. So this young girl when is out in the garden, collecting grasshoppers. And as we said before, is sexing them, giving them names is doing like a school project, incredibly— incredibly cute. I don't know how you felt about the cinematography and stuff there. I thought it was beautiful, and I actually think this whole movie is really beautifully shot the way that they pan— ROWAN: Yeah [22:06] JAZZA: —through windows to the outside. The way that light is refracted, and the different [22:14] of light showing kind of like different stages of each day, I think it's really, really pretty, and the setting is stunning as well. Shyamalan decides to completely ruin that with um— ROWAN: The movie. JAZZA: Dutch angles of— with the movie, but also with Dutch angles throughout the whole of this opening thing. If anybody doesn't know, a Dutch angle is basically when you tilt the angle of the camera, so that everything is like a skew. And it's kind of like a bit of a mallet. It's not a very nuanced way of being able to show like huh, something here is off. So Wen is there collecting some grasshoppers and then Batista comes along and starts to make friends with her. But everything is at an angle. And I—I feel like I'm tilting my head throughout the whole dialogue that he has with the seven-year-old. They end up making friends, he's pretty charming. And then he goes well I'm—I'm really sad because I'm going to have to do something really terrible Wen. You should go in and get your Daddy's. And then we see three other people walking up the path towards the cabin where Wen is staying with her two daddies, Daddy Eric, and Daddy Andrew. ROWAN: So cute. I would like to point out that the cinematography—the cinematography, being good is really no surprise because the gu—the guy did the cinematography or coders to cinematographers who were listed, but the one who's like the really well-known one did the lighthouse, the Witch, the Northmen. JAZZA: Oh amazing. ROWAN: Like, he—Yeah. This is not a surprise, and I also agree like I was watching this beginning and I had very high hopes. I really, really enjoyed this like really tense, there's like no music for this entire sequence like it's very unsettling. They keep doing like extreme close up. So just keep getting more and more extreme on their— JAZZA: Yes. ROWAN: —faces and very straight-on talking to each other. There is this real tension of a guy with Dave Batista's physique, with his the strength that he has, with his tattoos and with this very like still gentle calmness that you are so aware any second could just turn, and like that kid is dead. And so there's—you really do not know anything about this man, you don't know what his intentions are. And I think that also this idea of like there's a child who is on their own, who's being talked to by a stranger is like inherently a troubling tension-filled moment. I really thought it was interesting that they had this moment at the beginning where Wen basically tells him about having two dads and then it's like, all the Disney channel kids have one dad [24:43] JAZZA: My teacher keeps on saying that it's so great that she— that I have two dad's, almost as if she doesn't actually think that and it's like oh, yeah. ROWAN: Yeah. I was like Wen, you smart little cookie. But I like that little bit of commentary. JAZZA: I love the little detail. They start showing things and I totally believe that Wen's favorite movie is Kiki's Delivery Service. I just loved that little detail. This opening scene had so much promise. I— It's—unfortunately the best bit of the movie. It was downhill from here for me. ROWAN: Yes, agreed. And so they all as Jazza said, these three people come up this path and the entire mo—the entire like way through the scene, Leonard is like looking over as if he's like, waiting for something or someone. So like, again, this tension is building. And so she, very smart is like something is going on. These people do not seem nice. And so she runs to the cabin [25:35] start screaming, her dad's having a nice little bit of like wine and cheese on the back porch— JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: —to get inside because they were like— JAZZA: There's a half-eaten bowl of chocolate there as well. Like, this is [25:45] ROWAN: Not a great time. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: And then like she's like, come inside, come inside. And they're obviously like, okay, kiddo, I'll come inside. And then at that point they're probably like, the Jehovah's Witnesses [25:55] JAZZA: Like [25:56] really enjoy that line— ROWAN: From the road. Like, what a—what a dedicated lot of people. And then you kind of have this scene through the door where we don't really see what's going on. We see what's happening in the cabin with Daddy Andrew and Daddy Eric, but we don't see what's going on outside, we just hear them. And it becomes apparent that although the four of them kind of working together, they've all approach together, they all have very different attitudes and ways of that they think that this is going to work like it's like good cop, bad cop, confused cop, scared cop, angry cop, so many cops out the door. And when it becomes apparent that these people are there to potentially hurt them, they can see through the window that they have weapons. They kind of go through, which I always do appreciate in these like anything that's like horror thriller type things, like useful or smart things that you would do in this scenario. JAZZA: Yeah. So they try, there's no signal on their cell phones for example. So cell phones are out of the thing. The landline has been cut, so they can't call 911. ROWAN: They are like, okay, what if I try and escape, no, because they're surrounding the house. So there's no exits, we can go to. What if we—we just need to get to the truck to get the guns, or just one of us has to be— there's lots of like things that they're trying to figure out. But also obviously, they have like a child they're trying to protect. So like, even as they're getting the pokers for the fire, did use as makeshift weapons. You're so aware that one of them is like holding a child, and so— JAZZA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. ROWAN: —like his swing is always going to be inhibited by wanting to protect her first. Like, it's very much, they're doing all that they can but very quickly are essentially overpowered. And we get into the bit that again is spoiled by literally the tru— like you know that these people if you watch the trailer, we're gonna get into this house and tie them up. So in terms of the tension here, was that any not necessary? But during this altercation, where the rest of them storm into this house break in. what [27:52] Eric and or Andrew gets a concussion. Which one is it, which one's [27:55] JAZZA: Eric. ROWAN: [27:56] Eric. JAZZA: The boring one. The boring one who they should have just killed at the beginning because he was fucking useless. Really dramatically, like a typical gay, falls over, gets a concussion, and then can't look in bright lights and then starts having visions. They should have just— as soon as they asked which one of you dies, Andrew should have gone Eric. I'll kill Eric, that's fine. End of movie. ROWAN: That was the short—that was a short film version, but they— JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: —decided to make a feature so this continued. So we also get the first of what I've labeled the sad gay flashbacks. Where we just have a series of flashbacks to various sad moments in the gay's lives. Some of them are happy moments, but um, so this first one is basically Daddy Andrews's parents are mean and homophobic. And Daddy Eric is too damn hopeful. He thought that they could learn the error of their ways and be nice and not homophobic. But Daddy Eric was wrong people are trash. Back to the present. JAZZA: By the way, these flashbacks apart from one, which I will talk about later. I feel like they do zero for this. ROWAN: Absolutely nothing. JAZZA: Absolutely nothing like I think that there is something to say for not trying to make sure that there is a robust backstory for empathy building with these characters. But I think that that actually is already kind of happening and especially the guy whose plays Andrew— ROWAN: He's great. JAZZA: —Ben Aldridge carries— ROWAN: He carries the movie. JAZZA: Like I think he really does he—he and young Wen, Kristen Cui. They carry this whole movie. Otherwise, it would have been like stilted, awkward, purely utilitarian, kind of like dialogue. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: That I thought it just wasn't delivered particularly—particularly well. ROWAN: This is also the point of the second flashback where Andrew first decides to accuse them. Because as far as he's aware, some people have come into the house. They are talking about the apocalypse, all of this shit. They maybe want to hurt him and his family. They tied him up and he's like, you are a bunch of homophobe. I mean, it's just a very—a very great, very like, get out, I would have voted for Obama [30:05] if I could energy. Has been like, I don't have a homophobic bone in my body. I would never— how dare you accuse us of being queer bashes, as I— JAZZA: Yes. ROWAN: —literally gave your husband concussion, but not for the gay reason. JAZZA: It's just because you've been chosen by God. ROWAN: Just because you're chosen special family. Chosen by God to be killed, which is very gay of you. But that's not [30:30]— JAZZA: Very on brand. ROWAN: —what we think, which I loved. And so I—I wrote this point, oh, maybe the twist because I didn't—we never— the only thing we didn't really get in the trailers was like, what the big choice was, what the decision was. You just got you and your family have to make a decision. So at this point, in my mind, I'm going oh, do the family have to kill these four? Because the four of them were looking really scared and freaked out. And like, so I was like, okay, this is where my mind is going at this point. And I guess that acting was good because they're scared [31:00] because they will have to die. But it turns out that wasn't a twist at all. They just killed themselves. So that was point—that was guest one from Rowan in her notes. JAZZA: I will— I will say. So I—usually our roles, the two of us are, Rowan knows what the twist is and how the murder gets solved or whatever, 10 minutes into the movie. I don't understand what's happened until somebody explains it to me afterward. In this film, as soon as they tie them up, I was like, oh, they're gonna make them—they're gonna make them kill one another. Like, I— immediately got it. And I hadn't seen the trailer. ROWAN: No, no. This is immediately what I thought. But then I was like, stupidly, but the twist [31:45], there has to be a twist. JAZZA: I get it. Okay. ROWAN: So I was like, here are my twist guesses? So essentially, yeah they—they say, hey, buddies, your cute little family of three, that just happens to be a same-sex couple, nothing to do with our prejudices. Or—you got to pick one of you guys to kill, you have to do it willingly, and you have to kill each other. We can't kill you, and we can't choose. How's this gonna go, is that the four of us, we're going to ask you four times, who would you pick? And every time you say, I don't want to pick, something bad is gonna happen. And the bad thing is that we'll basically kill ourselves in front of you. And or like, the others will kill whoever is going to die at this point. And we will basically wipe out like a quarter of the population of the entire planet from that. JAZZA: Kinda. ROWAN: Which really—I was like confused because I was like, well, is your death causing the destruction of the planet? Like, do you—could you just like not die and then the planet doesn't get destroyed? Like how does the functioning of this work? And then I very quickly was like, Rowan, listen, this movie is not about actually thinking about it. Don't think about it. JAZZA: Yeah. So there's four of them. There's Leonard, who is played by Dave Batista. Redmond is played by Ron Weasley. And then there's Adrian and Sabrina played by Abby Quinn and Nikki Amuka Bird, respectively. They kind of like present themselves saying like a little bit about themselves really awkwardly. I don't know, what are they? Because I'm— I'm sure I've seen Rupert Grint acts before. And this wasn't good. And I don't understand what it was. And maybe it was like a character decision because it was a real problem for the Four Horsemen because they're— they're representative for four horsemen of the apocalypse. The four horsemen and the way that they kind of like engaged with one another and with their captors, it just felt so off. And like it didn't have any kind of like emotion behind it. It was very strange. ROWAN: I think that in part that was because we were never getting anything from their point of view, it was always from I mean, maybe it was from Andrew's point of view. And so we were always being shown them where they were trying to present a—would there— they were trying to be persuasive. As for people who were not like naturally persuasive, so it doesn't necessarily have that authenticity of like when they're alone. So like we kind of hear them talking alone, but it's always like in the background of what's going on with Andrew and Eric, it's like just whispering that like over here. So I feel like yeah, we didn't really get a sense of them as like actual people beyond this, because we never got to see them talking in like a natural way. JAZZA: Yeah. [theme] JAZZA: Hello, friends Jazza here for the ad read, as returning listeners will know we are part of Multitude, a collective of creators who make stuff for your ears. And this week we have something very exciting to announce. Merchandise, you asked and we listened. Multitude merch it's—it's finally here my loves. You can grab a Multitude logo tee or a crewneck sweatshirt now in our DFTBA store. And there's actually more merch in there now, and it's always being updated. I'm gay, I suppose. So I'm bloody obsessed with the fact that our friends at the Spirits podcast now have their own tarot card deck, which is exactly what I need to make all of my life decisions. As a reminder, all multi-crew members at the $10 tier and up get 10% off all Multitude logo merch, always. So are you Team tee, team crewneck? Or are you something else? Tag Multitude on your socials once you have your merch so that we can settle the debate once and for all. We would like to thank the Dot Gay Domain. Yeah, It's real, for sponsoring this episode. As the first top-level domain dedicated to the LGBTQ-plus communities, Dot Gay [35:53] [35:54] you stay.com Sashay away. Since launching in 2020, over 18,000 individuals, organizations, and businesses like even Target, Tarjay, have registered a Dot Gay domain name, and they're just getting started. Dot Gay is a community-focused domain that serves LGBTQ-plus communities by providing visibility and donating 20% which is a lot of each domain registration to grassroots organizations. The Dot Gay Domain is committed to providing a safer internet for LGBTQ-plus communities by banning and taking down hateful content. So if you're sick of using a domain that doesn't represent you, switch to Dot Gay today. Head over to queermoviepodcast.gay. Yeah, we've got one too now, to get a free Dot Gay domain name of your choice for your own website or brand for one year. Make Dot gay your online identity because.com, it really isn't gay enough. Speaking about domain names, you've heard us talk about Squarespace before and they continue to be supporters of this podcast. And we're very, very grateful. We use Squarespace for all of our own website needs. It gives us access to analytics and create email campaigns because you can't trust the bloody algorithm anymore. And it also is a really handy place for us to be able to get all of our social media in one place, especially since I was banned from Twitter by Elon. It's really important for me to have kind of like a hub. And Squarespace domains allow me to do that. We know that you hear many of your favorite digital people, friends, that stuff you listen to, all of them have their own Squarespace advertising code thing. Please use ours, it really hugely makes a difference for us to be able to continue to go back to Squarespace and be like, hey, are—all of the queers, they love this stuff. So really appreciate you continuing to use our code. All you need to do is go to squarespace.com/queermovie in order to register for a domain or buy a website. And then all you have to do is use Queer Movie at checkout and you save 10 percentage points off of your first purchase. Just go to squarespace.com/queermovie, that's squarespace.com/queermovie. Okay, we can get back to the show now. [theme] JAZZA: So this is where my— this is my party and its aftermath and the party is the death of Ron Weasley. ROWAN: I mean, yeah, sure. JAZZA: Because this is the first place for me where I laughed, where I shouldn't have laugh. ROWAN: The first place love that energy. JAZZA: Like Ron Weasley has to be murdered because the gays said they're not going to kill one another. And the bit that I laugh at is where the producer finishes off. Ron Weasley, and then picks up his legs. And then the camera tracks as he drags him out onto the patio, past two windows and then just drops his legs. And I just the—the visual of it absolutely sent me. I was inappropriately cackling through the whole dragging scene in the cinema, everybody hated me. ROWAN: I love that. So yeah, sorry, Ron, you're dead. You die pretty early. You had a good run, being angry man in the corner because Ron's character was just angry that— that was his character at that point, was just angry, grumpy man, that was it. JAZZA: He's meant to be wrath or something like that. They then turn on the telly and they see that oh, look, there's been earthquakes and there is tsunamis. Despite the fact that the first of those earthquakes, this is one of the plot holes. And the plot holes that really annoyed me. Were the first two like plagues that they released onto humanity, by not sacrificing one another? The first one is two earthquakes that cause two tsunamis that happen— the first of which happens four hours before they turn on the telly. Which means what it can't have been triggered by the gays. And then the second one is a type of like flu, is like an— it's a bird flu or something like that. That for some reason has an epicenter in Suffolk. ROWAN: Classic Suffolk. JAZZA: Classic Suffolk. But that has also been happening for several months already. And so also isn't caused by the gays. There is like a wider conversation around like the religious zealot nests of gay marriage causes natural disasters. ROWAN: I love that. JAZZA: I think there is like an opportunity for a meta-commentary about that here, but I'm not going to make it. ROWAN: I also— my favorite bit of this whole section was that the newscaster got— well first of all the [40:53] add to that place before— JAZZA: [40:55] ROWAN: [40:55] and then that— which is it's the directors are coming out right? JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. JAZZA: Yeah it's nice in there, yeah. ROWAN: I was like I—that looks like the director. So I just really liked that it was like that was a choice that they made, where they're like waiting for the breaking news to happen. But during the newscast, the woman goes just short moments ago, we have footage and I'm like, that's not short moments ago, because that person who took that footage is fully dead. Like they— JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: —they get consumed by the tsunami. They weren't then like in the tsunami being like Better Texas, it's ABC News. And it wasn't even like [41:29] JAZZA: I guess they could do live streaming. Yeah. ROWAN: Well, the thing is, normally when that happens, you have like live stream, but I was like, this is just so ridiculous. But I was like, you know what, the film was ridiculous, I'm getting into it. Also, like a lot of the tone of the— for kind of people who have come to this cabin. These—with these weird moments of comedy, of awkwardness, that I was never quite sure whether I was meant to be laughing out. So I was like, la— sometimes laughing in my head, I don't think I ever laughed out loud. But like, it was such a strange tone that I really wasn't sure what was going on, or what I was meant to be thinking. But yeah, just that really sent me. We also at this point, essentially, they're like, we're on a clock, we're on a timer. But actually, you know what, we're gonna have to break overnight like we actually end of our shift. So you guys have a little chat? JAZZA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. actually, [42:14] see you in the morning. ROWAN: See you in the morning gang. And we find out that Eric is definitely—we know from a flashback that his religious. And so I think at this point we're starting—they're like slowly creeping in the potential that Eric could be— JAZZA: He's the weakest link, kill the fucker, kill Eric. ROWAN: —persuaded he's the weakest link. I then put my second prediction, which was Eric is one of these religious bitches. So I thought because he kept asking— JAZZA: That would have been good. ROWAN: I kept— he kept asking questions about the— so at first, I predicted that right at the beginning when they have that moment of being like, oh, you can pray if you want to. And they tell him about the visions they've been having, which is like them predicting, prophesizing, what's going to happen, and how it all matches up. And he says something like, dreams can mean lots of things. And I was like, oh, I think he's been having these dreams., and he's persuade—like his—like Andrew has persuaded him, like this is because you're stressed like, these don't mean anything. And he's trying to persuade himself, and I fully thought that he also had been having these dreams. That was prediction fun twist number two, that didn't happen. So then we get a flashback to them in the car. And the—it's just them being cute and singing, and coming to the cabin and that child actor who plays he—who plays Wen looks directly into the camera almost for that entire sequence, and I loved it so much. They're singing karaoke and she keeps clearly being directed to look at either of the dads, but between them is the camera and she just spends most of the time looking directly at the audience. JAZZA: I didn't notice that at all [43:45] ROWAN: It was stunning, I love her. They also—at this point are talking about being a rat in the flashback, talking about being in the cabin, and I got what I thought was going to be a really fun Chekhov's gun situation, where they are joking about whether there are like bears in the area. And one of the dads is like we know we'll be safe we won't need the garbage out. And I was like Ron, Ron's gonna get eaten by a bear. There's gonna be some bear situation that's going to happen like we won't need the garbage out. But there's literally a dead body waiting to be eaten by a bear. Like something is happening. That never came back again, that was wrong as well. JAZZA: Ohh, an army of bears, um like— ROWAN: I really was like waiting for [44:19] JAZZA: [44:19] of [44:20] could have turned up. Or I was thinking like some level that bear daddies could have trotted up and saved them [44:28] ROWAN: That would have been even better, but no. We also at this point, like the whole movie is just them being in this cabin. One by one, these people are killing themselves. They have various escape attempts. So at first, Wen tries to like climb into the basement and run but ends up getting captured. We also find out that Andrew has had an experience of gay bashing in the past, and that he is convinced— he suddenly realizes that he recognizes Ron Weasley because he looks a little bit different— JAZZA: From the Harry Potter movies. ROWAN: From the Harry Potter movies, but he's like— but also he was the guy who beat me up. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: And put me in hospital and put me through like this horrible like PTSD experience I have to have therapy for. And we also get a flashback where we can't quite see his face. So again, it's like oh, is it really him? Is he miss remembering because of his trauma? What's going on? And then—then we start questioning like are these people actually, you know, it's this all a coincidence, because did Ron tell them that he'd been having a dream about the cabin when they were chatting on the little [45:29] where they all met. And then they suddenly started having the dream because he planted the idea in their heads. And very quickly that's all squashed and it's like no, no, it's— it's that's not what was happening at all, that the apocalypse is really going on. That switch and bait was kind of pointless for a second, don't worry about it— JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: —we're back on track. The apocalypse is definitely happening. Let's kill some more of these people. JAZZA: Yeah, and the next one to die is Adrian. And as she dies, this flu that has existed for several months up until this point is then reported on the TV. Andrew end up, they're like really angry saying that these are obviously coincidences, this saying suggesting that these are pre-recorded broadcasts, that they are just turning on. And they're timing everything specifically for—for specific newscasts. And Sabrina, one of the two remaining, I'm going to underscore the horsemen. ROWAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. JAZZA: Is bandaging up Eric and describing the vision that she's had, and how they ended up kind of like finding each other online, making them sound. This is the thing, if they had been hammered this idea more that they were people who were radicalized and made it feel more obvious to the viewer that oh, these are some people who have been radicalized online, like Q anon style vibes. That would have made the conclusion of the movie more—more, not necessarily surprising, but more interesting. And you kind of have it seated, but I don't think it comes across strongly you know? ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: Eventually, Andrew ends up escaping after Wen starts screaming for cartoons and distracts the rest of them. And Andrew somehow, like sneaks past them despite the fact that they're literally feet away from one another. He gets the car, gets his gun that was in the back that he carries around since he was gay bashed for his own protection, shoots. But [47:15], she stabs him. They end up going back into the cabin and then he actually does shoot and kill Sabrina. Sabrina's now dead. ROWAN: Here are my notes for this section. JAZZA: Right. ROWAN: Ron, Andrew, Sabrina, you hit him. JAZZA: Okay. ROWAN: Get the gun. Hurry with that gun. Get the fucking gun. Stop stabbing him. Baby got the gun. She ran away. Oh, no flat tire. That's—that's what I wrote down, some very important intellectual notes about that whole section. And then I put, why are you threatening Leonard, just kill him. JAZZA: Yeah, right. Just shoot the fucker. ROWAN: Just shoot the fucker. JAZZA: He—he does say—he does say we don't want to be a murderer like you all are. ROWAN: But then okay, this is the thing that's really weird as well, is that they have this whole thing where they're trying to persuade us like Andrew doesn't give a shit about humanity. Like he's this jaded motherfucker. He doesn't give a shit. He'll let humanity burn if it will save his family. And he can't shoot one dude. That doesn't seem— that doesn't seem in line with his character, Bishop. JAZZA: So Sabrina got— got sho, she's now dead. For some reason, they always have to kind of like, finish them off, even though they're clearly already dead. But Leonard— ROWAN: That'd be thorough. JAZZA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Make sure that the job is done. He wraps it up in a blanket and sticks you into the—into the other room. But then Eric and Andrew, lock Leonard in the bathroom because they're going to run and try and go to the truck that the four horsemen must have arrived here with. ROWAN: And when they put them him in the bathroom, there is just a very visible human-sized hole of a window. JAZZA: Sure, sure. But—it so—so Leonard smashes this window, making it seem like he's managed to escape. He's huge. He wouldn't fit through that window. And so it's just obvious. ROWAN: It's a normal human-sized window, not a Dave-sized window. JAZZA: Not a Dave sized— sized window. And so they end up like wrestling to the ground. ROWAN: Classic gay movie stuff, wrestling to be fair. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: [49:30] JAZZA: They don't—they don't kiss. ROWAN: They don't kiss though, which is normally— normally the boys wrestle and then they kiss in this situations. But no kisses, only gun grabbing happening here. JAZZA: And then after Sabrina dies, this is the second time that I unintentionally cackled to myself in the movie. When we have the footage of all of the planes falling from the sky— ROWAN: Weeee. JAZZA: I did. It just looked—the CGI looked so bad— ROWAN: It looks very bad. JAZZA: It just looked so silly to me. And there's people looking up in like horror, obviously, because like 700 planes are falling from the sky. But I just think the whole thing—the tone was just so off. So that's like the third and now we just have Leonard and this is where my act three, begins. [theme] JAZZA: And my act three is, just kill Eric already. ROWAN: Yeah, fair. So at this point, it's like, okay, the planes are falling from the sky. Literally, there's like lightning and thunder everywhere. The darkness is descending, everything is going [50:37] So it's like, okay, the apocalypse is definitely happening. We have a choice to make. Leonard at this point is just like chilling out in the rocking chair. I guess I assume if he—if he wants a nice final moments, helping himself to that wine, cheese, and chocolate that they left help her at the beginning of the movie. JAZZA: Yeah, what a weird guy. ROWAN: And essentially is like, hey, guys. So hopefully you're persuaded by now. I still have to die, I guess. RIP, [51:03] for me. But please, also, you'll have a little bit after I die. Please kill each oth— like kill at least one of you guys. And there's a line again that in my head, I was like, oh, this is interesting. Which is Eric says to Wen, go to the tree house until one of us comes to get you. JAZZA: Yeah, he's [51:21] ROWAN: And was like it's like my baby about to die. And I was right for once. And then at this point, I put RIP Leonard. Every time someone died, I just put RIP, you know res— you gotta respect the horsemen. JAZZA: Yeah, exactly. ROWAN: And then I said, but it finishes this time with RIP Leonard, hello darkness, my old friend. Because as soon as he dies, quite literally, the sky turns black. Just because of you know, we lost—we lost a bad boy, and the earth couldn't cope. So essentially, this then becomes this weirdly like heavy-handed, strange, extended, not even a metaphor, like sym—symbolism or a lesson to be learned. I don't know what it was. About, like the one gay who hates humanity because he was gay bashed and blames other people. The other gay who's a religious boy, who sees the best in other people— JAZZA: Sacrifice himself. ROWAN: And he also— he's Jesus, I guess. JAZZA: Jesus was gay. ROWAN: [52:15] JAZZA: [52:16] being single in that economy. ROWAN: Right? And it's just like, they're not— like they hate us, they're monsters. Like all of these homophobes, the whole world is homophobic and hates me particularly. Like,I love humanity, I hate humanity conversation. JAZZA: So this actually—this was the— this was the thing I wanted to talk about. ROWAN: Ooh, you want to do it now? JAZZA: Because like— Yeah. So I think that there was something potentially really interesting that could have played with the idea of the paranoia that you have from be— having grown up in a homophobic community, in a homophobic culture. Where your guard is always up, you don't trust others. And you like, for example, when Andrew automatically goes to, oh, you're hurt, because you're homophobic, and you think that we should die and that they're religious zealots. And that bad faith assessment that they have, because of the terrible experiences that Andrew specifically in this case, but queer people in general have gone through, he automatically then sees the worst in any confrontation that he ends up having. It made me think when we saw the Ron Weasley attacking him scene. And then the next scene is him purchasing a gun, it made me think of—so I made a documentary after [53:36] shootings in Florida. And then the increase in gun use amongst the elderly, or registration of guns among the LGBTQ-plus community. And that desire for you to take that power and agency back from this culture that has taken away safety from you. And therefore you need to be able to make yourself hard and make yourself battle ready. We see him training to be a boxer as well, so that he's able to defend himself, and therefore his family. And I think that there was a real potential here with this character, with Andrews's character to be like, oh, I have to— like, what is the thing that I am defending? Is it me, or is it this thing that I have built? And I think that the movie falls flat on that, but there was such potential for that theme of like, the tragedy of being a queer person growing up in a homophobic culture. And what that does to you in not being able to really kind of like experience life in a joyful way. So that was my little extra bit, but it doesn't do that. ROWAN: No. And I also think that that has been slightly— like that very legitimate, like element and experience, kind of almost has been, like co-opted by this. Like, I feel like I've seen multiple sketch shows, where you have the gay character who preemptively assumes homophobia or the black character who preemptively assumes, like racism, where it's like, oh, is it because I'm black? Is because I'm gay? Oh, this is I'm a woman, isn't it? And so that is become such a like, catch-all, gotcha where you can legitimately point it out without it being like, you're paranoid. You're crazy. Like— JAZZA: Yeah, it's not because you're gay, it's because God's chose you. ROWAN: Yeah, it's like, really— I feel like it would be a really tricky one to do, without either legitimizing the idea that like, literally the entire world is out to get you and everyone is homophobic, but also legitimizing the very real dangers and fear that can be present, and like the psychological experience of like, extreme chronic stress that you can have from this constitution, which I think is something that like a lot of marginalized people go through. But yeah, you're right, it didn't happen. So you know what— JAZZA: Oh, well. ROWAN: Oh, well. JAZZA: And then finally, let's wrap this shit up. ROWAN: Wrap it up. Finally, finally, thank God, Eric's dead. JAZZA: Eric's dead. ROWAN: Andrew killed him just in case you [56:04] it wasn't—Wen didn't kill him, Wen is in the tree house. JAZZA: [56:08] There'll be a cool twist out of it. ROWAN: She would have been like, I can't let you choose between—she's like still this little eight-year-old being like, fathers, daddies, I would never let you choose for that would be the most awful torture of all, I will decide which Daddy dies today. JAZZA: I— I read, I actually kind of part of me really, really wanted that. Especially because she was really affected by the fact that all of the kids were dying from the bird flu. And I would have liked it if she just taken the gun and shot Eric in the head. but anyway. ROWAN: Oh my god, that would been great. JAZZA: So we have like this weird post—post-apocalyptic scenes where they go to a— they take the truck to a diner, and we are told literally by one of the NPCs. ROWAN: Yep. JAZZA: Oh, everything's gonna be okay now ROWAN: That accent, I can only assume will be improving as you continue to live in New York. JAZZA: I fucking hope not. And then when they return to the truck, they play—they turn on the radio and this song called Boogie Shoes comes on [57:13] which was shown in a flashback beforehand. ROWAN: Where she looked at the camera all the time. Yeah. JAZZA: Yeah. Where she looks at the camera, and then they drive off. ROWAN: The end. There was one last moment where I thought, huh, interesting. Because as far as I could tell, that's raining during that entire end sequence. JAZZA: Oh yeah, oh yeah. ROWAN: And her dress and his shirt is just bone dry the entire time. Until I think they get into the cafe, and then suddenly, I think they're like, slightly damp. But I think it was just a continuity error, you know what I mean? Same with like, there's a moment where their hands get tied in front of them, but then suddenly, their hands are tied behind them stuff like that. But no, it was just continuity. It wasn't some like secret thing about reality, or what was real or a twist. It's just simply the end of the movie now. Also, I wrote down. So one of the funny things is with the burial gays trope. I did a video a while ago that essentially analyzed like these, the separate instances of like, what counts as burial gays, and what the different like most common uses for it are. And one of the really big ones in the start of like, queer representation that was being more sympathetic in sort of like the 90s and onwards, was this idea of like, the gay character dies in order to, like, teach everyone else a lesson about like, the value of life and love. And I was like, oh, no, this is like the ultimate version of don't worry, the gay one will die, but the rest of us can go on and learn to appreciate life on this planet even more. JAZZA: [58:37] ROWAN: Oh, my God imagine. Truly [58:41] Four Weddings and a Funeral. Just—there's so many insane examples. My absolute favorite one is in supernatural, there are these characters called a thing they called the ghost faces. And one of them dies, and there's literally a line that's like, gay love, like save to the world. Just because like the power of gay love, like prevented the apocalypse or whatever, because he just dies. So yeah, that was the movie, that was the end. JAZZA: Thank God. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: Shall we go into ratings? ROWAN: Let's do it. [theme] JAZZA: When we rate each of the movies that we talk about and review on this podcast, we use the six bars of the rainbow flag and we give a certain number of bars and certain colors. Does that make sense? It will in a minute. So we can give any combination of red which means life, orange, which means healing, yellow, which means sun, green, which means nature, blue, that means harmony, and purple, that means spirit. ROWAN: How many bars are you going to give it, Jazza? JAZZA: I'm gonna give it yellow, and that's it. Um because— ROWAN: [59:49] JAZZA: The sunlight— ROWAN: I'm also going to give it yellow and I think we have the exact same reasoning. JAZZA: So the late—the golden hour, kind of like lighting that comes through the window. ROWAN: Yeah, [1:00:01] JAZZA: Shines, yesss. ROWAN: It was tasty. JAZZA: It was so good. It was the only good thing about the movie and the Grasshopper scene actually. So maybe if quite liked this movie more, I did given it green as well for nature, but no, it's just getting yellow. ROWAN: Yeah, I fully agree, and sunlight for that exact reason. It was some beautiful shots in the bathroom. That again, I was looking at and I was like, I want to find some meaning behind this. One of you is in light, one of you is in shadow. Like what's happening here? There's some interesting colors. There was a whole moment where Eric talks about seeing a figure in the light that I guess was Jesus and— JAZZA:
In which Princess dives deep into her bisexual awakening - from badly censored anime to Emma Watson's eyebrows! Check out our Patreon - there are cool perks and you help support the podcast! https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast We're a serious podcast and have a sponsor, SquareSpace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. Find Us Online - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd About The Show Queer Movie Podcast is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we research and rate our way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to black & white classics, Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things gaaaaay on the silver screen. New episodes every other Thursday. Transcript ROWAN: Just quick mention at the top of this episode to thank two of our patrons over on Patreon, Jennifer and Toby who are supporting at the highest tier over there. We are so, so grateful. Thank you so much to our wonderful rainbow parents, Jennifer and Toby. If you want to support our Patreon then the link will be in the description. It's patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast. [theme] ROWAN: Welcome to the Queer Movie Podcast celebrating the best and worst and LGBTQ plus cinema one glorious genre at a time. I'm Rowan Ellis and I would like to welcome you to one of our guest specials. Oooh, very exciting. And today we are joined by, as usual, a very special guest who will be answering the question, what movies made you queer? I am very excited to welcome Princess, wooo! Popopow. Yay! PRINCESS: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to finally be here with you. I wanted to be talking to you and doing stuff with you forever. But we always are just so busy. And everything's so chaotic. So it's an honor to be queer here with you. ROWAN: Oh my gosh, like ships in the night. I mean, I feel like in these podcasts with these guests, I always forget to actually introduce people because it's mainly like this is a cool person that I know about. And then I—I never actually do the proper podcasting of introducing them. So if you don't already know who Princess is, for shame, writer, YouTuber, pop culture thinker was the direct quote I believe. And I actually pulled up the quote from your YouTube channel, which I think is like chef's kiss, which is talking about pop culture, race, feminism, and other social issues with a lot of nuance and profanity. Incredible. PRINCESS: Yes. I— I do— ROWAN: Love that. PRINCESS: —I do love that. Sometimes I write something I'm like, that was good. I think that this is solid description. ROWAN: So essentially, honestly, if you like this podcast, if you like anything that Me or Jazza do on the internet, you will love everything that our guest does. Across the entirety of the internet, so many projects. We'll leave in the show notes various links for you to look up what she's doing. First question for you, the first question we always do on this particular type of guest episode. I use queer in that intro as kind of like an umbrella catch-all term, you know, the movies that made me queer. But do you use other words to describe your identities? Does that make sense as a question for you? Or would there be some other kind of words going on there? PRINCESS: No, absolutely. I use queer and Bi all the time. I am a very loud, proud stereotype bisexual person. And I love it. It's the term that I came into my queerness with. So even as I've evolved in people of like, well, what about pan or this, and it's like, I accept all those terms. But I call myself Bi and queer. And yeah, just very happy with. Happy being Bi. ROWAN: Amazing, love that. And as such, you have bought along, I don't know what these are. I love when like all the guests keep up secret from me beforehand. And so it's always really fun to see what stuff people overlap on, because I feel like there's a lot of quite classic, especially the bisexuals. You do—there's a few that you all seem to have zoned in like some kind of homing beacon onto certain characters and certain movies. And then sometimes there are really left-to-field ones. So would you like to lay before me on the platter of sexuality, your first entry into this particular podcast vault? PRINCESS: Well, I have to say, it's a precursor to this. I think like every—every queer kid can go back and find like, a billion moments where they're like, oh, yeah, like this because I was clear. Oh, yeah, I've totally quit that's why I like this. And for me, the thing I picked is the moment where I was just like, all of the denial just kind of like flushed down the toilet. And I was just like, well, it's no—I can no longer pretend that this is just - ROWAN: The floodgates have opened. PRINCESS: Just truly, fully opened. And it is— not even the movie itself, but the trailer for A24's, The Bling Ring. ROWAN: Wow! What a deep call. What a throwback. Incredible Okay, so for those who don't know, what—what is The Bling Ring, if no one—somehow, someone has passed them by? PRINCESS: Oh man, a true moment. Alright, so in 2013, Sofia Coppola, the soft girl boss directed at she is did an adaptation of the Vanity Fair article. The suspects were Louis Vittons about this—this gang quote-unquote, like “this gang of like rich kids” who were going into the homes of celebrities and stealing stuff from the celebrities. Purses, shoes, like it was chaotic. And it was a huge story. And in 2013 Sofia Coppola produced the film, and in the film playing one of the token members of The Bling Ring is Emma Watson. There's a scene in the trailer where Emma Watson is like, dancing and she does this thing where she like licks her upper lip and she's got like bangs, like she's like in the dance floor, she's having a good time. It's just kind of like licks her upper lip And I just remember thinking to myself like, oh, no, it's—oh no, it's finally—it's like the egg cracked, there was no—there was no more denial. There was no more like, oh, maybe I'm just—no, I was a homosexual. And I think it's because I always had a crush on Emma Watson. ROWAN: Very valid of you. PRINCESS: Thank you, um, in that front, but like, in a way where it's like I was always a girl's, girl. I always had female friends. I always wanted to be in the company ship of other women. So it was very easy for me to just be like, I just want to like be her best friend. And we could read books together, and we could like hang out like she likes to read, I like to read. You know, that kind of thing. And then first—the first thing that she did, was she got that haircut. When she like—after she was done filming that franchise. She cut her hair into this very cute like Audrey Hepburn, Anne Hathaway bob. And her face just like 10 times, just was like in my—in my mind, It's like, wow, she's so pretty. Wow! And I was like, no, it's fine. It's just—I'm just admiring her. ROWAN: I just really love to admire people who can pull off pixie cuts. Like uh—it's just an intellectual admiration of that face type. PRINCESS: Exactly. ROWAN: Yeah, of course. PRINCESS: And so—and so—but then when The Bling Ring trailer came out, and I saw that lip lick, I thought I really realized oh, no, I'm getting, and I have a crush on Emma Watson for real, for real. ROWAN: I love that. PRINCESS: And even though I don't particularly like The Bling Ring as a movie, that moment is imprinted on my soul forever. That—when I was sitting in bed thinking about like, we're gonna be talking about Xena again, or Sailor Moon, and I just like, I started reading some fanfiction, and then I was like, man, I really do still have a thing for Emma Watson. ROWAN: Alright. Okay, here's what's so funny. I've never actually seen The Bling Ring. I think I would love it because it gives me the sense of like a movie that would really tickle the ADHD, like good bit of my brain in terms of it being just fairytale taken fast, basically. Like, that seems like there's probably been a lot of that happening in that movie. So I haven't actually seen the film. But I know the exact moment in that trailer that you are talking. I'm like, yep, I can see it clear as day. And I think it was that like, at least from my recollection. She did the like pixie cut and stuff, which was sort of like her version of I'm grown up now. Like I'm separating myself from this franchise, it is a child. But I feel like Bling Ring was the first like role that she took that was like overtly sexy. I'm here. I'm like an adult. PRINCESS: Yes. ROWAN: And so it was obviously like, we're going hard on the idea of like, this is me stepping into my own. And she seems to have really put herself into that role. So— PRINCESS: Yeah. ROWAN: —it was just inevitable. PRINCESS: It was inevitable. It was like—it was the definitely hollow movies came out. Then she was in Perks of Being a Wallflower. Then this and her cameo. And this is the end came in like the same year. And then you know, she's on and off for a while. I don't think she's done anything since Little Women. But she's just like, I think also, even though I don't like to her, how her Belle came together in the movie. I think like as a kid, like, I'd always love Belle from Beauty and the Beast. And in my mind, she and Belle, and like Audrey Hepburn and kind of like all of the like warm, soft white girl femme things that I'm really am attracted to, were like all combined in my mind with her because she was smart and a feminist and someone who just seemed very aware and even when she wasn't trying to get aware. And then what is even more peak bisexuals, that I always had a crush on her and Tom Felton. And then they had that—they had that whole back and forth thing where like she wrote the intro to his memoir. And I just remember like, just like giggling when I found that out. And then I was like, what's wrong with you? Like you don't understand! Everything Bi in me is so pleased right now, that they're like, friends. ROWAN: A piece of context that I collect, everyone needs if you aren't familiar with the fact that Tom like the—I feel like the way that Princess has just told this story as if it's like some kind of historical event. PRINCESS: I know. ROWAN: Like his book came out this year. Like that—that reaction is still within you—within your like very being, it feels like. PRINCESS: It's—it's because, you know, for all of the things that I—that I—there are some fandoms that I really became queer in, or that I recognize my queerness in. And the things that I would ship and the—in the content I would consume. And so like the Draco, Hermione stuff, which is you know, very problematic hashtag I know. But because I had a crush on Emma Watson and Tom Felton as like people. It was like this perfect like blanket for me. And then there was although—there are always those rumors that like she had a crush on him in real life, which was confirmed. And so that brought me into a whole fit of giggles. And then I remember a couple years ago there was this image that one of them put on Instagram of like him teaching her the guitar, and like my entire like heart went into outer space. And then when the memoir came out, and I just—and I'm just like, wow! Emma Watson it—like their friendship just makes my heart very happy. But I just love the things that she's doing outside of acting. And I think The Bling Ring was the moment that I allowed myself to be like, no, I really have a crush on this girl. And it's weird because it's the first time I've ever had a crush on someone who was like my age, a real person and not a cartoon character. And someone who for my entire life had been like, both my age and a celebrity. Because I remember just the process happening and figuring out who this person wasn't it, which just very like. It was overwhelming. I think it's— I feel like that's probably how fed, the Jonas Brothers must feel. Who were like around the age when those, that's how I felt? Like Emma was all the Jonas's in one. ROWAN: Roll into one girl. The thing that was like so interesting, as well as that they were, like worldwide known celebrities, but felt very accessible in a strange way. Like felt like, just like, oh, I just got picked as a child to be in this, this movie series. And I'm— I don't know it's all just a little bit crazy, isn't it? And now I'm like going on these fun little shows. And so I really— it was—I definitely think that, that, that she has been a —as well as just being a very, very lovely looking gal. PRINCESS: So lovely looking gal. ROWAN: That you know for a long time we've really overlooked the fact that she entirely acts with her eyebrows. PRINCESS: Her and my girl Emilia Clarke those M's. They just love— but you know what the brows are free. It's fine. ROWAN: It's— it's very—there are like—there is this one, she was in this. I think it was a BBC adaptation of Ballet Shoes. PRINCESS: Yes. Mmm. ROWAN: Yes. Oh my god. That is peak Emma Watson eyebrow acting, and you could almost if you—like it would be dangerous playing a drinking game with it because you would— like it would—you would be absolutely wrecked by like the third scene. And then within it she plays a girl who loves—who wants to be an actor. And then she like doubles down on the eyebrows cheering, she does like a monologue from Puck PRINCESS: Oh my goodness. ROWAN: And it's incredible. And me and my brother like ca— it's really hard for us to watch an Emma Watson film. We have to like deliberately try to ignore her eyebrows like just cover the top half of the screen. I love that girl. And I think I agree with you in terms of like everything that she is seeming to let use her platform for and like trying to do with the fame that she got from a young age. But also I think there are just some elements of her. I'm like you, or do you just seem like a normal person? PRINCESS: Yeah. ROWAN: And that it almost makes it more alluring. PRINCESS: Yes. I think that's really true. And I think it's, I think when you compare like the Potter kid actors to like any other fandom, while there's definitely was gross. It was like the older men who were like trying to like sleep with her as soon as she turned 18. They just seem very level-headed, like it was before Instagram, before Tiktok, before we had that much accessibility. And also, I think to a degree them being British, and being around so many actors who could curate them and guide them who are these, like, you know, you've got like the best lessons ever. You have all these actors with like, decades and decades of experience under their belt, being around you to help you get through that. I think that's why most of them have turned out so well, is because they really had a lot of pragmatic, thoughtful people around them. ROWAN: Yeah. PRINCESS: And I just find that so refreshing. And I think that even when I you know, I feel like if her and Emilia Clarke were in a movie that would just be like—it— that should be the trailer. It's just their eyebrows and their eyes. ROWAN: That's all you see. PRINCESS: Because all anyone— because that's what everyone would think about. ROWAN: If the if— if movie poster designers had any balls like they used to, it would just be eyebrows. That's the poster. PRINCESS: Yeah. ROWAN: If they— if they committed to the bid. PRINCESS: We would love it. ROWAN: It wouldn't be one of these like posters with every single person's face that's on there, like, you know, the classic MCU posters now. I think specifically just when—they need to be cast together just so that we can go away. And then also, you know, it'd be great if Matt Smith was also in it. . That was just a blank space on the poster where Matt Smith belongs. PRINCESS: Absolutely. Like you have the the biggest like you have Amelia and Emma right here. Matt Smith on the side like a little ghost. And then you have Lily Collin just over there. no. People need to learn the art of making a great delicious poster again. Yeah. I just— you know, I think crushers are such a fun thing to look back on. Even if they are like celebrity crushes because the ability to like you get over a person was so normalized to Tumblr? That you could just be really out quietly to yourself, while still getting to appreciate these figures, and get to work out those fields. I think that's the thing that I kind of like about, the before I was a queer time in figuring out, was I got to do it by myself, you know? There wasn't a pressure that come out, cause I wasn't like anything big, the way I am now. But I really get to just enjoy, just having a crush and liking a person. But also not having to be a stan either, like I love her. I would do anything for her. but I'll still make fun of her eyebrow acting like I'm not ridiculous. ROWAN: I kind of want to ask about the Tumblr, were you like a Tumblr teen? Is that where you were? PRINCESS: Oh, yeah. ROWAN: Of course. Um, because I think that Tumblr weirdly is this kind of anonymized space, in a way in terms of fans. Like, you don't know how many followers people have. You can't tell who's like a big name in the fandom really. And then you also—there's no chance that your—people that you're a fan of will run into this content unless someone literally like showed them or they had some kind of secret Tumblr account. Whereas with the rise of Twitter, it feels like people are much more likely to be able to, like, directly try and contact people they're a fan of and like, have that kind of feel, like they might be able to have a reciprocal relationship. Do you see like a big difference between that energy that maybe I think when we were teenagers, it was more of a private thing, as it were like there was a community with the other fans and your friends as opposed to like having access to people? PRINCESS: Well, you know, it was interesting, because I was a smaller public figure at the time, like, because I'd been doing YouTube for so long, people knew who I was. But it was a lot more people who were engaging with me in good faith. You know, like, it wasn't like, peop— there would be pushback or asking questions with the anons, but you could also turn that off. And that would immediately stop people from wanting to ask you questions because they didn't want to put their name to it. So I think even just having that option was a really good way of filtering out people who were there to troll you, or to antagonize you. And people who just really had questions to ask you. But I ended up making a lot of really good friends through Tumblr, and I think the tagging system on it was just so much better. Because if you were looking for a meta-commentary about something, you could just click on it and find that. And if you're looking for, like you know, for me, I think like something like Teen Wolf, and I was specifically looking for people who are anti-racist in that fandom. And I could just go to the tags and find who I needed and who I wanted, and soft block anyone that I didn't. And I didn't have to soft block everybody, I could just block those tags. And that would just keep me from go—like even now, like when I left— when I soft left Twitter because I still have to go on it for work. I'll go on Tumblr, and it's actually great because it's already been filtered for me. So when I go on it unless it's like a sponsor thing, I usually only see things I like, and I think that's really the ideal experience, is to just like, see the things you like when you're going online. ROWAN: That's so true. Okay, now that you've named dropped Teen Wolf, I need to know if Teen Wolf has any part of your queer journey? The—that. PRINCESS: No. ROWAN: Oooh. You know what, I love that for you. Truly. PRINCESS: You know— you know it is is that like I, so—so I love like Teen Wolf, Merlin, a bunch of those shows. And um, but the problem was that there was just so much misogyny, and anti-blackness in those communities, that any enjoyment that I would have gotten out of some of the queer experiences were like, very thoroughly like, because—and I'm writing about this for—for my book. But like, it was just weird to see, like, like, I appreciate stearic as like a concept and a thing that people like, you know? like I get it. Like I get it. ROWAN: That is the most diplomatic answer to like any fandom question is like, I appreciate this in theory, like I—I you know, the concept of the theory behind, but yes, entirely. I mean, Teen Wolf is pretty notorious for being this fandom, where they were like, do you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna find just two white boys who have never interacted on screen, and they be our ship. PRINCESS: It was just like, again, I do get it because I do that with women all the time. You know, I peep— I understand the appeal of like super court for that very same reason. Y'all like two pretty white people together, that's fine. But then there'll be actual queer characters and quicker there's no color in it, and there'll be nothing. Or just a lot of harassment, because for me with it was just like, I get it. You want Arthur and Merlin to be a thing. That is not Gwen's fault, honey. Like, if Arthur was not dating Gwen, he would not be dating Merlin, because the writers of this series are cowards and will not let them be gay. Even though there are literal rules. I know there are literal books where like Arthur's is in a throttle with Lancelot and Guinevere. So it's just like, they're not doing that. But it becomes this situation where it's somehow treated like— the fight for representation can include attacking and harassing and demonizing black and brown people who are not standing in the way of your queerness. They are not doing that. They are just trying to enjoy that there's a black queen in the show. And it's like it always upsets me how the iron will go to the wrong people. And it stops you from being able to enjoy it. Because I used to like really like Stiles, on Teen Wolf. But then I began to see all these people who like, felt like liking Stiles, meant you had to like hate, Scott. And I just got slowly uncomfortable, like, we don't have that many Latino characters that get to be like really sweet himbo protagonists. Why are we acting this way? You can just like a secondary character like we all do it, we all do it. So it wasn't part of my queer experience, but it was part of like my intrasexual experience of kind of understanding what it meant to be like queer and brown in a fandom space. ROWAN: I mean, I specifically at this point, really removed myself from any fandom spaces of something if I want to like it. I'm like, if this is the thing, I think I'm going to be a fan of, I'm outside of it. I consume it. I have my thoughts about it. I talk to people I know about it. And then maybe I start dipping a toe into spaces when I know that like people I already follow who already talk about stuff that I like, or who have write good fanfiction, or do good fan art. If they've gotten into it, I might dip in. But like, even from the point of view of someone who's queer, and why you—like, it just completely destroys your interest in the shows to have misogyny racism. Like, homophobia, biphobia, somehow also enter these spaces that are meant to be so kind of inclusive with this idea of like fandom, being a space in which the mainstream, like lack of intersectionality, can be corrected, which I think is fandom is strongest, that when people use found it as an excuse to like double down on the kind of critiques that rightly or put against shows, it kind of just feels just the worst to me. PRINCESS: Yeah. ROWAN: To be honest. PRINCESS: Yeah. It's—it's a really interesting experience because I think that there are so many people who really come to fandom looking for a community and cannot accept that parts of their community might still have internalized issues, and , which is like every community has that. And we all in our time online, get pushback from that. And we don't always react really well, the first time it happens. We're human. But the point is that like after you sit with that for a while, are you going to like, actually address it or no? You know, how many times do you have to have fans telling you like, stop calling Gwen a gorilla before you'd realize that like, that's maybe not okay, and not helping your ship because it's not her fault that the writers don't want your characters to be gay. And I think also because queerbaiting was such a big like, this is when like Tumblr really started the queerbaiting conversation, and it got transferred onto Twitter. But I think that, because on Tumblr, you could have these long-form posts, and really get into the nitty-gritty. When we were talking about queerbaiting, we could really sit and discuss, like the specific moments and have like the gifts and everything to be like, this is what we're talking about. And because Twitter is such a shorthand thing, that term just got kind of like copy-pasted onto so many other things. And we—and you've talked about this a lot in your content, because I follow it because everyone should. Queerbaiting kind of lost its meaning as it got transferred and diluted from one space to another because you couldn't actually discuss it. You either accepted it with like a few bits of evidence, or you'd have a long thread that people would you— lose attraction for halfway through because a 10-piece thread is going to have so many different parts than one contained meta post. ROWAN: Yeah, exactly. I mean, do you feel like there are any of these shows or movies or books, or any piece of media where you've entered into the fandom and felt like, oh, this, this is working? Like this—this makes me feel seen and appreciated as someone with these kinds of like intersecting identities. Or do you feel like it's not not really built that way, right now? PRINCESS: I think that even with the best of intentions, a lot of places are not always ready to unpack their anti-blackness, like, that's been the biggest hurdle that I've seen, like, in almost every single queer community I've been in. Unless it was like a black show or something like your black lightning or whatever. There was always a difference between how people would treat the characters of color, versus the white characters. And there was always like, a reason why and it was always like about the writing. But I think the reason why it doesn't work well, is because the communities will just push out the people who are pushing back on them. And there's a—there's a desire to disengage because that's not what you're actually coming to it for. Which is kind of the tricky part is that a lot of people are going to Tumblr to just kind of enjoy and be in community with each other. And a lot of people just treat community as in like, we're just all gonna be the same and it's easy. And when you get that kind of pushback, and you have to ask, get asked these difficult questions that you are not ready to deal with. It's very easy to just label someone like an anti or pro this and then just dismiss them. And that kind of repeats the cycle. Because I do think that there are valid reasons to be frustrated, especially with that particular queerbaiting of the late 2000s and early 2010s. Because they definitely knew what they were doing. But there comes a certain point of which, why are you as a consumer, still supporting and dealing with things that are clearly not meeting you where you feel like you need to be met as a queer person. And something that we're still dealing with about as consumers deciding and really being picky about who we are choosing to put our energy behind. Because queer marketing can do a lot if it's done well. ROWAN: a lack of queer marketing— PRINCESS: Yeah. ROWAN: —can—can be like really pass people by. I mean, the example I always think of is, in books, actually. There's a wild book called Wranglestone, and it had a—I don't think they thought it was gonna be as popular as it was. And I think it gained word of mouth because people were like, it's the gays on the book. It's the gays on BYA book. And so suddenly, they had to do a reprint, and I went into a bookstore when the reprint came out, and they still had copies of the old cover. And it was exactly the same except for this one quote on the back, that was added for the second print, which made it obvious it was gay. Because prior to that, there had not been any obvious gay stuff within the blurb, within the quotations, there was nothing. And suddenly they'd made it obvious because they suddenly clock like, oh, wait, the gay teens, aka the readers. Although, maybe they want to read this book. PRINCESS: Exactly. ROWAN: And I think that, that that's always like, they've been this weird balance of like, some places trying to conceal queerness because they— I guess they can think they can sneak it in front of straight people and they won't notice. But along the way, you're gonna miss a lot of queer people who are like actively searching for this representation, and kind of actively excited about it. I am curious as to whether any of the stuff that you were kind of like had on your list is overtly queer. Like whether that you've kind of felt representation from media that was trying to represent you? Or whether it's kind of been stuff that you've interpreted through a queer lens or connected through in a queer way that wasn't necessarily in the source material? PRINCESS: Well, I think one of the things about having been into anime as a kid is like, the dress is a lot more of it, even when they couldn't necessarily kiss on screen, you kind of knew what was going on. Then the biggest thing for me is like, obviously, like Sailor Moon, where it was like, you know, Uranus, Neptune they're— they're are a couple and they— ROWAN: Those cousins, PRINCESS: Those beautiful cousins. Yes. And I—I don't think— I can't— I don't know anyone who watched the dub and really thought that that was really what was going on. Like, it was just like, it was like, Oh, they're not, they're actually cousins. ROWAN: Yeah, for those—for those who don't know, essentially, yeah, there was basically what it sounds like, there were two characters who were made in the I think it was like, specifically America when it was over in America that they did the English dub for Americans, and they claimed that these two women were cousins. While they were very much doing things that cousins like would not, should not be doing. PRINCESS: Holding hands very closely. Yeah. ROWAN: Very closely, really giving that cousin energy. And so it's kind of now I think it does seem ridiculous, but it was essentially like censorship that was deliberately trying to make sure that there wasn't even like, an ambiguous relationship people could interpret as being queer. It was like, nope. Cousins, absolutely not. Let's not go there. PRINCESS: Right. And even something like Cardcaptor Sakura, which we got became Card captor, and the dub, you know, the leading boy character, Syaoran, he's bi-canonically, and that was like, written around. And so it was—it was interesting for me of like, watching these shows that were either—that were subtly queer. And I say that in like, subtle only in the sense that they couldn't say it explicitly because of censorship. But everybody knew it was going on, like Xena. You know, I always tell my mom, like, you're the one who got me to watch Xena, so you can't blame me for being bisexual. It is like bisexuality, the show. ROWAN: Truly. PRINCESS: And so those were the things that really at that age, really allowed me to feel comfortable. And then the works of Tamara Pierce. Because in her—especially in her Circle of Magic series, there is a lesbian couple in it, and like a normalization of the idea that you know, LGBT peoples do exist in these worlds. And I think as I got older and expand to like fantasy and things like that, it became very easy to read between the lines and be like, oh okay, that's a little gay. You know, the first time I read like, vampire, and I was like, so they have a kid huh? Alright, that makes sense. I'm picking that up. I love that we're both wearing striped sweaters, by the way, I just wasn't thinking about that. ROWAN: Yeah. We matched deliberately. PRINCESS: We did it. ROWAN: That was very on purpose. I mean, like, Tamara Pierce, what a fool— I feel like, there is just this kind of experience. A certain experience of being into Tamara Pierce, as a teenage—as a teenager and most likely as a teenage girl into queerness pipeline is absolutely chef's kiss. I truly don't know why there hasn't been adaptations of those books. PRINCESS: I that all the time. It's so frustrating. ROWAN: It's very—listen, if you— if anyone who's is listening to this and you don't know the book series that we're talking about, essentially, it was like my absolute bread and butter. One world called and various books, standalone geologies, quartet, series that kind of spanned like hundreds of years that still, I think being written today. And they all were very, like the quintessential one I'd say, is probably the Lioness Quartet, which was the classic tale of like a girl who disguises herself as a boy to become a knight in it. Followed her from when she was like a kid to when she was in her early 20s. And it was that kind of energy of like, the 90s feminist vibes in a fantasy setting. And yeah, they—they—but they these books that did have these appearances that I hadn't come across before of like queer characters, or have kind of tomboy characters who were treated with respect and it was a really—do you—It's—you would be listening to this and be like, wow, primed for an adaptation. And yeah, so that's the next one. That's—that's my big pitch to if anyone—hi, Netflix, if you're listening PRINCESS: You can't trust them anymore. Maybe Amazon. ROWAN: You know what actually, you're right. You're right. That's very true. BBC, if you want to do I guess, the entirety of the series and nine episodes, that is kind of your bag, then it's sort— it's available I say, as someone who has no affiliation with Tamara Pierce or her legal— legal team. PRINCESS: Give them show money. ROWAN: Get—please, please give them something. [theme] ROWAN: Hello, dear listener, this is Rowan from a slightly different time of recording. Sorry to interrupt myself here. But I just wanted to just quickly say if you're enjoying this episode of the podcast or any of the other episodes that we put out, then why not consider being a Patreon supporter? We have a Patreon where essentially, you can give a small amount per month and you get access to a bunch of really fun perks. We have perks of different levels, but essentially, you get access to things like our Discord where we talk about queer movies. We do a queer movie watch-along every month. You can also tell us what you want us to cover on the podcast. We also have perks including things like top 10 lists, where we give you recommendations of queer movies and queer TV shows that we've been enjoying and you should watch. We have a queer newsletter with the very gay stuff that we're finding all over the internet that month. So a bunch of very fun, cute perks that you get, as well as just the warm and fuzzy feeling of supporting this podcast and the work that we do so that we can, you know, pay the wonderful Julia who edits for us. So I will include the link in the show notes. It's patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast. patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast. We would love to see you over in the Discord sometime soon. And also, if you have indeed been enjoying this episode, then we think that you will enjoy some of the other podcasts from Multitude the podcast collective that we are a part of over here at the Queer Movie Podcast. So I thought I would just tell you about one of them. It's actually a brand-spanking new one, hot off the press. Spicy. It is Tell Me About It, a madcap game show about proving that the things that you like, are actually interesting. Hosted by Adal Rifai who you might know from Hello From The Magic Tavern, and Hey Riddle, Riddle, as well as our very own Erik Silver. In every episode, a guest comes on to share and defend their favorite thing, which honestly very up my alley, because I feel like you know, online where they say, what could you talk about for like 10 minutes straight? Anything. Truly, if I have a favorite thing, if I have something that I've enjoyed, I could rant about it forever. I want to tell everyone about it. So this is right up my alley, and I'm sure a lot of yours. But the way that they do it is through a series of absurd games and challenges. Of course, the trailer is actually out now, you can listen to it. And the first two episodes are going to be dropping on February the 23rd. So very, very, very soon, with new episodes after that every other Thursday. And theyou might have noticed the fact that I said yet. It comes out every other Thursday, which means that if you are used to listening to the Queer Movie Podcast on Thursdays, this could be your ultimate Thursday fave. You could—you could have a podcast from Multitude in your little—in your little podcast app every Thursday by double tagging us and this brand new spanking new podcast. So give the trailer a listen, and subscribe so that you are primed to get those first episodes coming next Thursday. Just before I get back to my chat with Princess, I wanted to say a massive thank you to Squarespace for sponsoring this episode. And you may have noticed a lot of our episodes because very exciting, they're returning sponsor to the podcast. And if you're looking to build a website for yourself or your business, or ever have looked at building a website, I'm sure you have come across Squarespace. They are all in one place to do just that. You can build a site, set up an online shop, connect with your audience. I say a website for yourself or your business. But here's the thing, you could you—you could use it to make a website for anyone. A website for a friend, a website for your wedding, that's a thing people do, which I found out when I got invited to a wedding recently, that our website. The possibilities are truly endless. So we actually have used Squarespace to make the Queer Movie Podcast website. I also use it to make my own personal website, because I've never been relaxed a day in my life. So I constantly have a million projects going. I have a bunch of social media platforms, things like that. And Squarespace essentially is like, hey, you want to put all of those in one place? You just give people one link. You can link out to them, you can link your social media directly to your page so that it automatically pops up and displays posts from like your Instagram, from your Twitter. You have analytics as well, which, again, if you've never been relaxed a day in your life, you might look out for your website that you've made for your wedding to check. You know, how many people have been looking at that gift registry? Or if you have a business that you know, genuinely useful to figure out how people are finding your, your brand. What brand have you got? Your wedding photography brand? This sounds like I'm soft launching me and Jazza's wedding, I'm not. Um, but yeah, so that you want to find out where people—what are people searching for? What do people want? What are you providing to people, and how can you link those things up? And it is super easy with the insights that Squarespace has. Also, very exciting features that you might not have thought of including on your website, like a donation function. So you can encourage donations on your site for a cause that you care about. Like some kind of wedding-related cause, the theming really breaks down here, a worthwhile charity. I'm not a tech person, I'm not a coder. So very, very useful that they have a design function, which gives you templates and things that you can use and customize way easier. So if that sounds like something that is up your alley, if you're looking to start a website, for whatever reason, check out squarespace.com/queermovie for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code QUEER MOVIE to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Okay, back to the show. [theme] ROWAN: So anime in terms of the possibilities that it opens up, it sounds like there was that element of like not necessarily having concrete, oh, I see these two characters kissing on screen and saying that their girlfriends and stuff, but that possibility opening up, is that kind of where it was landing for you? PRINCESS: The—that's where it landed. And also, when I would read the Sailor Moon manga, it was also like the girls would kiss in that one. Like it was explicit that like there's even a whole thing where like, you know, Uranus is flirting with you, Usagi, and the girlfriend and her girlfriend. And then Pluto comes in It's like, oh, you all live together. And I go and raise this child. I see what's going on. So I think as I got out of just traditional Western media, which my parents were very encouraging of, and being able to read like other comics and seeing those experiences, it just became more and more normalized to me. And then just sort of like, I think Buffy at a certain level of like, even before I watched it, I knew the big thing about was that you know? Willow is a lesbian, which made it very shocking when I watched it from the beginning. And I'm like, what do you mean she likes Xander? I already stan. I thought she was gay. I thought she was a le—I felt betrayed in advance. I was like, what, what, what? Like, oh, it's just like, this is not what I signed up for. But then so it was very conflicting. But I was like, well, I can just be Bi, I guess in my headcanon because, you know, we—discourse for another day. ROWAN: Listen, we truly peace has peaceful come to our lands when the bisexual Willow and the lesbian Willow headcanon has lived together in harmony. I'm part of that collective. I feel like you know, it's a fictional character, who has had relationships with both men and women. And therefore, you can—you can argue both sides and you can see yourself on both sides. Both the, I have had relationships with multiple genders, I find attraction to multiple genders. I am Bi-Pan and Willow is too. All the sometimes lesbians have relationships with men before they figure themselves out. Lesbian experience, and I believe they can all exist in harmony together. PRINCESS: Absolutely. I mean, I'm just thinking that also just, you know, they'll—they'll like we'll— we'll become trans. I think have been a great trans woman character. So I'm just like ROWAN: You know what, that's—I take it back. That's the Galaxy burning take that we needed. PRINCESS: So I'm like that just as soon as it's like Oz comes out, realizes that they are trans woman, everything comes up, right as rain. It's like you were always in all the same. ROWAN: All coming together. The red string is connecting. PRINCESS: Exactly. We just go right past standards, like that was just a mistake. We're just gonna— ROWAN: Don't think about that—that's fine. Don't worry about it. So was it— it sounds like you sort of already knew there was like an element of queerness. Was this when you were already out or at least had figured out your own sexuality, or is this one of those things where you're like, oh, curious, a lesbian character? For no reason at all. I'll check that out. PRINCESS: I think because I think I watched Buffy between my junior and the summer between my sophomore and Junior year of college. And junior year was kind of the year where I was sort of realizing things like yeah, I made it with my female friend but we're just like, fig— we're just hanging out, you know. ROWAN: We're just friends of Katy Perry, just having a little bit of fun. PRINCESS: Literally was obsessed with Katy Perry. Had I kissed a girl, I played it out all the time. I made like two Disney AMVs to I kissed a girl when that came out. ROWAN: Of course she did. PRINCESS: My friends printed out for my birthday like Katy Perry thing, say happy birthday to me. Again, it's one of those things where like, you look back, and it's like really. The call was coming from inside the brain. But the first show that I watched while I was queer, and that it really connected with me in that way particular, was Lost Girl. Particularly because the character was bisexual, was a succubus, had like relations between different kinds of genders. And while I still have like, my own critiques of that series on the whole, is it—it remains super important to me, and I'm actually watching it with my girlfriend right now. Because it was the first time that I was queer, and watching a queer show at the same time, and actively seeing things that made me feel seen. And also like she was the main character. She wasn't the side character, she wasn't she was the leading character, was a bisexual Succubus and like her being sexual, was not treated as a good or bad thing, it's just part of her nature. And I just really remember feeling just so held by that. And I think even when I critique it in terms of how it handled race, I'll always have like this bit of me that wants to share it with other people because it just meant so much for me at that time. ROWAN: I think that that is like a—feels like an almost universal experience of being I guess anyone who's—of an identity that has not had representation, necessarily, like held out to them and given to them, that you will have these things that you are like, I want to recommend this to you. I really liked this, it meant a lot to m., I might have to rewatch it to see how rose-tinted my glasses were when I was gro—when I was like completely like looking at it through the glasses of like, oh my god, the first time I've ever seen this. And then you go back and you're like, okay, so we have to acknowledge this, this, and this about it. But it is like when you don't necessarily have this wealth of representation, where you can be like, oh, there was enough of it that it feels comfortable to represent there, to talk about this particular representation because there's others that can fill in those gaps. Or this actually did it really well. That feels like a very— an experience I'm sure a lot of listeners will relate to in some way. Honestly. PRINCESS: And because I was like older than—like not older, but I was in college then and I was like already know I was going to be like a lit nerd. I was unpacking a lot of it while I was watching it, which is why it's one of those things where like because I was already a nitpicky nerd, it's like, I've already— I can tell you the problematic before—about it before we even start watching. It's like so when I was I'm like, okay, so this episode has this, has this. Overall is very good, but we're just gonna prepare you. And I think that's kind of the good thing.this pushback about the idea of like, oh, you're gonna be like a buzzkill, if you like tell people it's like, I think most people with any real media analysis, understand that not everything is going to be perfect. Things are going to—can age weirdly, people can not necessarily know what they're doing. The important thing is like, acknowledging it and not trying to like pretend it doesn't exist. You know, I would much rather deal with acknowledging that there is transphobia in something, then be like, I mean, you could read it this way. It's like no, we'll read it the way that it is very clearly done in the story, which is transphobia. PRINCESS: I mean, like I'm notoriously my entire personality is the show Black Sails. So yes, PRINCESS: Yes. I love Black Sails. ROWAN: —because oh boy, season one. PRINCESS: Oh, yeah. ROWAN: And so I recommend it to people on like, but listen, season one is also a thing. So I gotta warn you. I gotta warn you for a whole season. I mean, it's still good, but like, oh, boy. PRINCESS: Yeah. ROWAN: So I'm very used to the whole, I can love a piece of media that I'm also critiquing kind of energy to him. PRINCESS: Yeah. Black Sails was a hard one because I remember that first season two, I watched it live and I'm just like, it's gonna be gay pirate soon everyone said, that's When Our Flag Means Death came out, it's like gay pirates. I've been here before. ROWAN: I was like, oh, yes. My two shows, my two gay pirate shows. I really love the fact that they only were— having said that, you know, need lots of representation to get it right. Really the honest he said, Okay, we're gonna have exactly two gay pirate shows. And they're both going to be bangers and I respect that. It's like a concept. I think it's right, considering the Pirates of Caribbean was a bisexual awakening for so many people, and just felt like the proper legacy of piracy. PRINCESS: And it was really interesting. I got to interview the writers of Black Sails. And I talked about that it was really important for them to like, acknowledge that like, part of the reason why people think of pirates as like, funny, you know, characters is because of propaganda used to sort of marginalize them, because they were on the outskirts of society a lot. Like kind of like how cowboys lot of, and there were people of color, freaks, formerly enslaved people. You know, women wearing, you know, male clothing, and it's like, wow, showrunners who actually do their research and appreciate their subject matter, I think also as it—as I get older, I think, no, actually, this is so funny. I, so I like a turn-based RPGs. And I love the game Fire Emblem. And one of the things that you could do in the Fire Emblem games is like put people in relationships. And so I would always just wanting to be putting all the girls together. And all the guys might be like, it's just normal, I just want everyone to be happy. And their best friends, they want to be best friends forever. So now they can get married. And so—and so it's very funny to like, go back and think about like, yeah, I really wanted all of these queer couples, and like, I'm playing the newest Fire Emblem now. And they have like a lot of callbacks to like, the older games. And I'm just like, oh, man, these are my babies. These are all my cute babies. And it's just been really fun seeing aspects of other characters that I really love come alive again. And finding all these little ways in which I was always kind of asserting my queerness in different ways. And coming to terms with sort of like what that meant for me. Because I don't think always meant one thing, or just one experience, which I think is fine. I don't think it ever should be just one thing to encompass so many people. But finding it in even places where I didn't expect it, I think was always a thrill of it, you know, of like, oh, my God, like I have this possibility. And that one, that possibility came up, I took it. That I really wanted to make it happen for me. And I think that's something that I really enjoy. You know that I'm older, I just really enjoy getting to be queer and enjoying stuff, and finding things where I don't have to make it up anymore. Or even if I go back to something that's older, to be able to see like—to see what they said I missed, because I think a lot of times authors are trying to do that. But they— they had so much pushback, especially when we were growing up about how queer you could make something without it being, you know, a whole issue. So it's actually fun for me to go and revisit things and figure out oh, like, this is the actual text, the actual text is gay. It was everyone else who was lying to me. ROWAN: Hmm, yeah, definitely. And I think that that, like, I feel like I've talked to so many people who have found that like, the Fire Emblem experience that you've had in various places, whether it was like how they played with their dolls when they were younger, and like how they paired them up, or like playing their Sims and deciding like, who was living in the house with The Sims getting together. Or like fan fiction and fan art, and like finding those pairings that you wanted to put together to be like, ah, yes. And then as you're getting older, having more and more of awareness of like that being a deliberate act, rather than something that you are just doing to be part of the figuring out process, or because you're not even aware that that shouldn't be how the world works. And so it's really interesting seeing these ways in which exactly as you said like people are creating the queerness and like actualizing it in a way in front of them. You know, whether they're kind of cognizant of doing that deliberately and putting that out into the world to share it. Or just privately as part of like that growing up process. PRINCESS: And also that like game, like even The Sims, like The Sims gave you like— you could have—in The Sims two, you could have gay couples, and they were just adopt a kid, like you just like ready to have a baby, instead of like, you know, having sex, you would just all of a sudden a woman would arrive with a baby and be like, here you are. And I'm just like, that's so convenient. Thank you. Didn't have to do any paperwork or anything. And so I really appreciate even those kinds of things, I look back of like, the possibility of being able to just enjoy things for myself. That is something that I just find so important. I really think that games specifically have become a really great way for people to play with their gender and sexuality and really, you know, get to experience it on their terms, and in spaces where they would not be able to do so. Like I liked Boyfriend Dungeon because I liked the idea that like you could have as many partners as you want of every flip, or you just be friends with them. And that was just—and either way, it was fine. And I think the more that we allow that to happen to like be able to be with any gender you want, pronouns you want in the game, and normalize it the better. We are going to be with giving younger queer kids, and queer adults who still enjoy this shit. The best experiences, while other people can just get normalized to it, you know. Like, it's not that big of a deal that to have pronouns in anything. It's just pronouns, guys. And also don't stream Harry Potter. ROWAN: Yeah, that's a— that's a official order from the podcast, endorsed by Jazza, who isn't here. And as Jazza is the gamer amongst the podcast, co-hosts of me and Jazza. Jazza specifically used to work at Google supporting creators and was put on to gamers. And then me, it was like all these gamers, Jazza the gamer and then Rowan is this little extra person that was like, hi, I've never played a game in my entire life. I've—Does Dungeons & Dragons count? And Jazza's like, I love the game, but no, Rowan, that's a different kind of game. But again, like one of those games where people use it to explore their kind of gender and sexuality in a really interesting way. I guess it is that kind of participating in something and having a hand in creating it as you're interacting with a piece of media that someone else has created, means that it's like a safe place to explore, but also gives you enough, like creative control and autonomy to make those choices and, and feel like you've got like a part in it. PRINCESS: Absolutely. And I love that part of it. Like I like— if I could design games or like do things like that, I would definitely want to do more of that. Because there's just so— the options are endless, especially because it's like, I want gays in space, you know, like I like—I like just game to play a game like even um, crusade kings where like, you can form alliances with other care—with other like nations, and they can be gay too. Like, you can just have those options of having queer alliances and doing those kinds of things or like, even in Civ VI now, they have King Christina, and like, all these other female and male models have played with gender in them, just already there. So if you don't know who they are, and you look up this kind of stuff, you can just figure out oh, there is this like gay ruler that was around during this time or this, you know, ruler who played with pronouns. I mean, playing with pronouns, especially in games, when you—like history games is such a common experience, you know, like female pharaohs, or like, women who call themselves kings and things like that, like there's so much there. And I think a well-made game is a great entry point to that kind of work. ROWAN: Amazing. We're almost at the end of time. Oh, my goodness, time has absolutely flown. So I wanted to just ask if there's anything else that we haven't talked about that you wanted to mention, or that you wanted to bring up before we end? PRINCESS: Um, no. Other than just kind of being surprised that A24 had a— had a grip on me at so young of an age. ROWAN: I fully forgot The Bling Ring was an A24 film. Like it wasn't until you said, I was like A24, and I'm like, oh, a recent one. And then fully forgot that A24 has been around for more than like five years. PRINCESS: Yeah, it's like them and Spring Breakers, which is like the—the tether of The Bling Ring. Oh, just like, oh, right, you know. And I think Spring Breakers is the energy I wished The Bling Ring had. But they're both in that same venue of like girls behaving badly, which I do appreciate. ROWAN: Just being chaotic. I was thinking about it took me a second, when you. And I was like, oh, it's— it's not Spring Breakers. But I had that moment of being like, wait, which film is which? Okay, yeah, that'll— that'll make sense now. But I do—I mean, like, I think that it's, again, haven't seen Spring Breakers. And yeah, I feel like you could tell me like a particular scene from the trailer, and I'd be like, oh, yeah, not that exact one, because I think that something's just the internet immediately knows that this is—this is the thing people are going to want to get off. And they're gonna make it for you. PRINCESS: No, absolutely. And I think that it's just you know, it's— it's so great to look back like when I was prepping for this episode, and like figuring out where I was going to start off with, with Emma Watson. It was just fun going back and looking at the trailer now. Every trailer, no matter what, may to include that theme. And then like every—because now you can see what the most replayed moment is out of thing. Every single one that most replays is the topic. And I'm like the people understand that this is what we want. ROWAN: And whoever cut those trailers, understood what the people wanted as well. PRINCESS: A good—a good trailer. Doesn't tell you the entire plot, but just gives you enough to be like titillated forever. It's so good. I really— ROWAN: Every trailer should just have like a millisecond of that gift in it. Like any—any genre any trailer, give the people what they want, it's Emma Watson, licking upper lip with a fringe. PRINCESS: That'll— that'll do it. Ah. ROWAN: That fringe. PRINCESS: A goo—a solid wig. I was very proud of her. But yeah, I just—I'm just really happy that I get to talk to you about gay shit. And that I can talk about my embarrassing crush because I'm not embarrassed by it. I love Emma Watson. I think that she does good things with her politics. And I just love— I don't think— I think honestly, if you were a queer kid and you had a crush on any of the Golden Trio, you turned out— everything turned out really good for you. Like, that's such a rare thing to say. But like, all of them have been pro-trans rights very much in the main. They all do normal kid things, Rupert Grint still looks hot as hell. He's a dad. He's a whole father now. ROWAN: He has an ice cream truck that was like a whole thing for a while. He just like went around and gave out free ice cream, because it was like I got money and I guess what I'm gonna do with it is give ice creams. And I'm like, adorable. PRINCESS: Yeah. And like Daniel—Daniel Radcliffe was a short Jewish king. He just like literally does whatever he wants with his money. Like him and Elijah Wood are just killing it in terms of like, short King got money on, hanging out. ROWAN: Chaotic like indie film energy. I honestly love that. I feel like—never hasn't been a star that's— that big, but that I feel like any random person could write a weird short film and just get him to agree to be in it. Like any— I feel like any of you people listening right now if you wrote a short film, and made it weird enough, Daniel Radcliffe is going to be in it. PRINCESS: Absolutely. ROWAN: He's gonna be like, sure, I'll pay you to be in it. PRINCESS: Right. ROWAN: I believe that with my whole chest. PRINCESS: Yeah. Their— they are just good kids, lads, people who like I think they are the template of light. This is how you guide a child through the process of becoming immensely famous. And also giving them the space to just like, do whatever you want. Whether it be prestige, or you do like, you're gonna be like a sexy tavern boy, Dan Rad, like, do whatever you want. God bless. ROWAN: Stunning. I have a final question for you. PRINCESS: Yeah? ROWAN: Which is, do you feel like there's any— like as you've been going through the journey of like, your queerness, whether that is still ongoing, whether you feel like you're like settled, I've settled on my throne. Do you feel like there's been any of your experiences missing from representation, like you've—you've had a particular experience or a particular intersection of your identity, or a particular like life event that you've had that you're like, I don't know, if I've really seen something that's made me feel like, yes, this has been represented, this feels like it's something I've seen reflected back to me. PRINCESS: You know, I think because I have enough privileges in my life. I think I'm pretty good. I think—I think I'm still trying to find just the baseline sometimes. Like I think First Kill and the character of Calliope was sadly like one of those characters that was like, oh, my God, this is so exactly, exactly what I would have wanted, and then it was gone. But I think in general, the thing that I that I really would love to see more of is just more, you know body diversity, more darker skin people, more discussion of STI and a non-stigmatic way. Because I think what I liked about feminism college girls, was that they had like the character who is a lesbian, she had chlamydia. And she's like, I didn't know. And they're all like, I didn't know that you could get chlamydia for sleeping with women. It's like, yes, you can girl, yes you can. So I just would like to just see more, you know, people who aren't able-bodied, people who, you know, who don't just have one partner throughout the entire thing. Normalizing STIs. Those kinds of little things that you may think, don't matter. But when we talk about sort of, like intimacy, and romance and sex, I think it's important to let people know that like, even if you're someone like for example, with herpes, or something like that, that you still are a little person because that happens all the time. And I think that just those small things make a big difference to people. So I'm lucky that I have had enough experiences and enough stuff with my own intersection. So even though it's not full, I mostly am looking for it to expand beyond someone like me into the more margins, you know/ ROWAN: Yeah. Amazing. Sweet. Before I do my little ending, there was there anything else you wanted to add? Or that you forgot to say or anything like that? PRINCESS: Just that you're awesome, and I love the work that you do. And I'm really glad that we finally got to like, chat about something. And also like, we definitely need to do something about Black Sails eventually, because that would be so fun. ROWAN: It's like truly. I'm like so excited for the fact that they are doing Percy Jackson. I'm, like, truly have never felt more safe in an adaptation in my life. PRINCESS: I like as someone who was a—who was a fan of Artemis Fowl, I really am rooting for you, Percy Jackson kids. ROWAN: I'm not even a Percy Jackson kid. So the reason why I'm like have skin in the game for the Percy Jackson thing is because I used to work at Penguin who published them in the UK. And so I like weirdly had a relationship with it as lik
Cate Blanchett god nominated for Oscars Best Actress for this... and we might not agree. Jazza and Rowan spend an hour not really getting this movie. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
It was only a matter of time before we tackled Call Me By Your Name, one of the most influential, and subsequently controversial queer movies of the last decade. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
It's time for the Christmas episode! In which Rowan and Jazza discuss how Hallmark went from banning gay ads to making their own queer movies in three years flat. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. We are also supported by Dipsea. For audio stories to spice up your alone (or not-so-alone) time, go to dipseastories.com/queermovie for a 30 day free trial. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
The Orangey Guy is back, aren't you excited?? Plus we discuss the best ways to give back to a haunted historic site, secrets revealed at funerals, and exes that live in haunted lighthouses. Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of family member death, illness, amputation, burns, and drug use. Housekeeping - Recommendation: This week, Eric recommends 1899 on Netflix. - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out the Queer Movie Podcast - a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today! Sponsors - BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits - Brilliant is the best way to learn math, science, and computer science interactively! To get started for free, visit brilliant.org/spirits. The first 200 people will get 20% off Brilliant's annual premium subscription. - Storyworth is an online service that helps you and your loved ones preserve precious memories and stories for years to come. Go to storyworth.com/spirits and save $10 on your first purchase. Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com. About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
In which Rowan dives deep with the founder of the Bi Pan Library, Bren Frederick, to talk about owls, trio-protagonists and bi awakenings in the this week's episode. We're a serious podcast and have a sponsor, SquareSpace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. Find Us Online - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd About The Show Queer Movie Podcast is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we research and rate our way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to black & white classics, Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things gaaaaay on the silver screen. New episodes every other Thursday.
Rowan speaks to veritable intellectual (they actually read), Joel Rochester from Fictional Fates who goes through the media which made them queer! From Barbie to Mulan and, of course, the Pirates franchise. We're a serious podcast and have a sponsor, SquareSpace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. Find Us Online - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd About The Show Queer Movie Podcast is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we research and rate our way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to black & white classics, Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things gaaaaay on the silver screen. New episodes every other Thursday.
In which Jazza and Rowan respectfully discuss Harry Styles, his bum, and his acting. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. We are also supported by Dipsea. For audio stories to spice up your alone (or not-so-alone) time, go to dipseastories.com/queermovie for a 30 day free trial. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
In which Jazza is the only one who could watch Billy Eichner's Bros and recounts the best seggs scenes in cinema, period. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. We are also supported by Dipsea. For audio stories to spice up your alone (or not-so-alone) time, go to dipseastories.com/queermovie for a 30 day free trial. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
It's what you've been waiting for. We're finally going to solve ghosts. Answers like coffee ghosts, teenage shenanigans, and devious child lies. Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of misogyny, missing persons, abduction, and death. Housekeeping - Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends watching your favorite horror movie! - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out the Queer Movie Podcast - a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today! Sponsors - BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits - Apostrophe is an online platform that connects you with an expert dermatology team to get customized acne treatment for your unique skin. Get your first visit for only five dollars at apostrophe.com/SPIRITS when you use our code: SPIRITS. - Brooklinen delivers luxury bed sheets, pillows, comforters, & blankets straight to your door. Go to Brooklinen.com right now and use promo code “spirits” to get $20 off when you spend $100 or more, PLUS free shipping. Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com. About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
Rowan is joined by Connie Glynn, the author of very gay book series The Rosewood Chronicles. Get ready for some truly chaotic Hot Takes about queer cinema - you've been warned
Is it an unhinged mess or a masterpiece homage to the genre? Rowan and Jazza discuss Do Revenge, directed by Jennifer Kaytin Robinson, starring Camila Mendes and Maya Hawke. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. We are also supported by Dipsea. For audio stories to spice up your alone (or not-so-alone) time, go to dipseastories.com/queermovie for a 30 day free trial. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
We're joined by Mara Wilson, who regales us with her experiences growing up in a haunted house, living the “gothic valley” life, and what would be scarier to meet: a ghost or an alien? Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of misogyny, aircraft accident, earthquakes, parent death, illness, body horror, mental illness, murder, blood, animal death, and the Civil War. Guest Mara Wilson, known for her childhood roles in Mrs. Doubtfire and Matilda, is a writer and actor living in Los Angeles. Recently, she has appeared on Welcome to Night Vale, Broad City and Bojack Horseman. Her writing has appeared in the New York Times, Elle, McSweeney's, Reductress, and many other outlets. She also publishes a newsletter of her writing with Substack, 'Shan't We Tell the Vicar?' Mara's first book, Where Am I Now?: True Stories of Girlhood and Accidental Fame is available from Penguin Random House. Recently, Mara voiced Tania de Batz in the audiobook One For All, a gender-swapped version of the Three Musketeers by Lillie Lainoff. Housekeeping - Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends Games and Feelings. - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out the Queer Movie Podcast - a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today! Sponsors - Wildgrain is the first bake-from-frozen box for artisanal bread. For a limited time, you can get $30 off the first box - PLUS free Croissants in every box - when you go to Wildgrain.com/Spirits to start your subscription. - Apostrophe is an online platform that connects you with an expert dermatology team to get customized acne treatment for your unique skin. Get your first visit for only $5 at apostrophe.com/SPIRITS when you use our code: SPIRITS. - BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits - Blueland creates everyday eco-friendly cleaning productions that save you money and space, without any plastic waste. Get 20% off your first order when you go to blueland.com/spirits. Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com. About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
Jazza is taking over, with two English Queens (the main one is no longer available for some reason) Nova and Olympia! They talk about media that made them queer, from WWE to Sailor Moon and everything in between. We're a serious podcast and have a sponsor, SquareSpace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. Find Us Online - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd About The Show Queer Movie Podcast is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we research and rate our way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to black & white classics, Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things gaaaaay on the silver screen. New episodes every other Thursday.
This week we dive into the world of queer slasher horror to breakdown the new Kevin Bacon movie They/Them! This podcast needs your help to keep going! Go to patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast and join for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
Welcome to Head Heart Gut, where the Multitude hosts argue about the best things using our head, our heart and our gut. This is a supercut of the first three Best Animal Heroes episodes, featuring Julia Schifini, Eric Schneider, and Jazza John! If you want to hear the judgment episode of this section, or get access to the years and years of arguments — go to multicrew.club to join the Multicrew!
Welcome to Head Heart Gut, where the Multitude hosts argue about the best thingsusing our head, our heart and our gut. This is a supercut of the first three Best AnimalHeroes episodes, featuring Julia Schifini, Eric Schneider, and Jazza John!If you want to hear the judgment episode of this section, or get access to the years andyears of arguments — go to multicrew.club to join the Multicrew!
Welcome to Head Heart Gut, where the Multitude hosts argue about the best thingsusing our head, our heart and our gut. This is a supercut of the first three Best AnimalHeroes episodes, featuring Julia Schifini, Eric Schneider, and Jazza John!If you want to hear the judgment episode of this section, or get access to the years andyears of arguments — go to multicrew.club to join the Multicrew!
Today, we are being taken over by Multitude! But don't worry, Jazza is still in this episode. Let us introduce you to Head Heart Gut, where the Multitude hosts argue about the best things using our head, our heart and our gut. This is a supercut of the first three Best Animal Heroes episodes, featuring Julia Schifini, Eric Schneider, and Jazza John! If you want to hear the judgment episode of this section, or get access to the years and years of arguments — go to multicrew.club to join the Multicrew!
Welcome to Head Heart Gut, where the Multitude hosts argue about the best things using our head, our heart and our gut. This is a supercut of the first three Best Animal Heroes episodes, featuring Julia Schifini, Eric Schneider, and Jazza John. If you want to hear the judgment episode of this section, or get access to the years and years of arguments — go to multicrew.club to join the Multicrew!
Welcome to Head Heart Gut, where the Multitude hosts argue about the best things using our head, our heart and our gut. This is a supercut of the first three Best Animal Heroes episodes, featuring Julia Schifini, Eric Schneider, and Jazza John. If you want to hear the judgment episode of this section, or get access to the years and years of arguments — go to multicrew.club to join the Multicrew!
Welcome to Head Heart Gut, where the Multitude hosts argue about the best thingsusing our head, our heart and our gut. This is a supercut of the first three Best AnimalHeroes episodes, featuring Julia Schifini, Eric Schneider, and Jazza John!If you want to hear the judgment episode of this section, or get access to the years andyears of arguments — go to www.multicrew.club to join the Multicrew!
Please enjoy this disruption to the normal Exolore feed! Exolore is a member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective. Together, all of the Multitude hosts make a friendly debate show called Head, Heart, Gut. This episode is a little taste of that show. Welcome to Head Heart Gut, where the Multitude hosts argue about the best things using our head, our heart and our gut. This is a supercut of the first three Best AnimalHeroes episodes, featuring Julia Schifini, Eric Schneider, and Jazza John!If you want to hear the judgment episode of this section, or get access to the years and years of arguments — go to https://multitude.productions/multicrew (multicrew.club) to join the Multicrew!
Welcome to Head Heart Gut, where the Multitude hosts argue about the best things using our head, our heart and our gut. This is a supercut of the first three Best Animal Heroes episodes, featuring Julia Schifini, Eric Schneider, and Jazza John! If you want to hear the judgment episode of this section, or get access to the years and years of arguments — go to multicrew.club to join the Multicrew! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Rowan is joined by the hosts of Spirits; Julia (who edits this podcast) and Amanda (who is our big boss person). They weave their way through a hybrid of Hot Takes and media that made them queer. This podcast needs your help to keep going. We are still losing money and need your support on Patreon. Go to patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast and join for as little as $5 per month and we will provide you with personalised movie recommendations, along side all the other perks that come with membership. Thank you for supporting us! Find Us Online - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd About The Show Queer Movie Podcast is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we research and rate our way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to black & white classics, Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things gaaaaay on the silver screen. New episodes every other Thursday.
This episode we talk about Love, Simon - and whether it's a Bad Movie or if Rowan is just reading too much into it. Let's chat gay high school romance, queer YA, and #ownvoices. This podcast needs your help to keep going. We are still losing money and need your support on Patreon. Go to patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast and join for as little as $5 per month and we will provide you with personalised movie recommendations, along side all the other perks that come with membership. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
Big questions, little questions, these figures of folklore, mythology and world religion are here to answer them. We tackle camp quandaries, quitting jobs, and the world burning with their help. Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of ableism, mental health, depression, homophobia, climate change, fascism, and hate crimes. Guest Dr. Moiya McTier is a New York-based astrophysicist who studies planets outside of our solar system. She's also a folklorist who specializes in using science and logic to build fictional worlds. You can hear all about the worlds she's built on her podcast, Exolore, where she imagines, discusses, and reviews fictional worlds, often with expert guests. You can learn more about Moiya and her work on her website, moiyamctier.com. Housekeeping - Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends The Milky Way: An Autobiography of Our Galaxy by Dr. Moiya McTier! - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out the Queer Movie Podcast - a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today! Sponsors - Wildgrain is the first bake-from-frozen box for artisanal bread. For a limited time, you can get $30 off the first box - PLUS free Croissants in every box - when you go to Wildgrain.com/Spirits to start your subscription. - Doordash is a fast, convenient food delivery app. Sign up for DashPass and get 50% off your first order up to $15 value. Use promo code SPIRITS at checkout when you spend $12 or more. - Magic Spoon cereal is high-protein, low-sugar, keto-friendly, and gluten-free. Go to magicspoon.com/SPIRITS to grab a variety pack and try it today! And be sure to use our promo code SPIRITS at checkout to save five dollars off your order! - BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com. About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
This episode we talk about Stud Life, the story of butch lesbian's somewhat confused journey to find love on the streets of London. This podcast needs your help to keep going - you can support us on Patreon. Go to patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast and join for as little as $5 per month and we will provide you with personalised movie recommendations, along side all the other perks that come with membership. Thank you! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
Rowan is joined by the incomparable Dr. Moiya McTier, astrophysicist, folklorist, pro world-builder and host of Multitude's Exolore. This iconic duo weave their way through the queer media that made Moiya. Enjoy! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, SquareSpace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. This Pride month we are also supported by Quip! When you go to getquip.com/qmp you can get your first refill free, and help support the Ali Forney Center. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! Find Us Online - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd About The Show Queer Movie Podcast is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we research and rate our way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to black & white classics, Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things gaaaaay on the silver screen. New episodes every other Thursday.
A retelling of Pride and Prejudice, but with gays on Fire Island? Who knew this is what the Jane Austin canon missing? Joel Kim Booster, Margaret Cho and Bowen Yang star in this romantic comedy with lots of male-presenting nipples. We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, SquareSpace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. This Pride month we are also supported by Quip! When you go to getquip.com/qmp you can get your first refill free, and help support the Ali Forney Center. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
In which we review and overanalyse what we believe to be the only 'laugh-out-loud' portrayal of conversion therapy in cinema, But I'm A Cheerleader. Also Rupaul is in this movie, Jazza keeps forgetting. We're a serious podcast and have a sponsor, SquareSpace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
You asked and we very much delivered: here are our thoughts on the Netflix adaptation of the Alice Oseman web comic and graphic novels, Heartstopper. We're a serious podcast and have a sponsor, SquareSpace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
You know we live in a digital age when we're VERY excited to be reading a handwritten urban legend. We discuss whether hot breath or cold breath on your ear is better (because…ghosts) and discuss whether or not ghosts can or even SHOULD breathe. Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of spiders, death, dangerous working conditions, child death, drowning, dismemberment, car accidents, and surgery. Housekeeping - Merch: Pick up your Spirits major arcana tarot deck and get our first sticker of the month at spiritspodcast.com/merch - Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends This is Good for You. - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out the Queer Movie Podcast - a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today! Sponsors - Wildgrain is the first bake-from-frozen box for artisanal bread. For a limited time, you can get $30 off the first box - PLUS free Croissants in every box - when you go to Wildgrain.com/Spirits to start your subscription. - Blueland creates everyday eco-friendly cleaning productions that save you money and space, without any plastic waste. Get 20% off your first order when you go to blueland.com/spirits. - BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com. About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
We natter about Margarita with a Straw, starring Kalki Koechlin and directed by Shonali Bose, telling the story of a horny Indian student with cerebral palsy. We're a serious podcast and have a sponsor, SquareSpace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
Rowan is joined by Aria Velz, THE authority on lesbian films on TikTok. In this perfect collaboration, Aria brings three hot takes on the world of queer media. Get ready! They're coming in spicy. Find Aria here. Find Us On the line - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd About The Show Queer Movie Podcast is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we research and rate our way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to black & white classics, Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things gaaaaay on the silver screen. New episodes every other Thursday.
You wait for a gay cowboy movie episode, and then two come at once! We talk about Brokeback Mountain, how come it never won that Oscar (could it be... homophobia?), and why this was Jazza's obsession in the 2000s. We are supported by squarespace. Help support the podcast by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
Gay Internet royalty joins us for this week's Hot Takes bonus episode, Alex from AreTheyGay. Ever wanted a queer Marxist analysis of Barbie? Alex has you covered. In this episode Rowan and Alex tackle queer baiting, whether or not we need more 'gay movies', and... confusingly whether or not all movies are gay. I'm not confused, you're confused! Find Us Online - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd About The Show Queer Movie Podcast is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we research and rate our way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to black & white classics, Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things gaaaaay on the silver screen. New episodes every other Thursday.
Will Power of the Dog do what the other 'gay cowboy movie' couldn't do and win an Oscar? We don't know, but we sure as hell have opinions on this movie starring Benedict Cumberbatch, Kirsten Dunst and Kodi Smith-McPhee. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
We're joined by author Mayonn Paasewe-Valchev, an incredible storyteller and educator. We talk about how myths are purposeful, cautionary storytelling, and the differences between oral storytelling and literary traditions. Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of parental death, grief, animal attacks, drowning, and kidnapping. Guest Mayonn Paasewe-Valchev was born in Liberia, where she was exposed to a culture of oral storytelling at a young age. She lived in the Netherlands for several years, where she learned to stuff her klompen (wooden shoes) with carrots and developed a love for reading stories—especially tales written by Roald Dahl and Astrid Lindgren. She lives in Georgia with her family. Pre-order her book, The Leopard Behind the Moon, today! Housekeeping - MERCH! Preorder the Tarot Tee Shirt and get your other on-sale merch at spiritspodcast.com/merch! - Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends Pokemon Legends: Arceus. - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out Multitude's newest member show, Queer Movie Podcast! This is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today! Sponsors - BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits - Shmanners is an etiquette and culture podcast hosted by husband and wife team Travis and Teresa McElroy. Listen to Shmanners today at shmanners.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. - Blueland creates everyday eco-friendly cleaning productions that save you money and space, without any plastic waste. Get 20% off your first order when you go to blueland.com/spirits. Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com. About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
If you've ever debated over drinks who the best vampire is, this is the episode for you! We're joined by the hosts of the Queer Movie Podcast, Rowan Ellis and Jazza John, to decided, once and for all, who the most vampirey vampire is! Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of death, illness, sex, fascism, depression, The Civil War, and homophobia. Guests Rowan Ellis and Jazza John are the hosts of Queer Movie Podcast. Join them as they take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! Housekeeping - MERCH! Preorder the Tarot Tee Shirt and get your other on-sale merch at spiritspodcast.com/merch! - Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends Activation Degradation by Marina J. Lostetter. - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out NEXT STOP: An audio sitcom that explores the turbulent time of your mid-to-late 20s when everyone is changing around you -- and you worry that you might not catch up. Season 1 is out now! Search for NEXT STOP in your podcast app or go to nextstopshow.com Sponsors - BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits - Brooklinen delivers luxury bed sheets, pillows, comforters, & blankets straight to your door. Go to Brooklinen.com right now and use promo code “spirits” to get $25 off when you spend $100 or more, PLUS free shipping. - Calm is the #1 app to help you reduce your anxiety and stress and help you sleep better. Get 40% off a Calm Premium subscription at calm.com/spirits. Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com. About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
Today we are joined by TWO special guests from the Mermaids podcast, She Said, They Said, Alex and Shivani! Despite Alex's straight woman status, they're both here to celebrate the movies that made them queer (/straight)! Find Us Online - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd About The Show Queer Movie Podcast is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we research and rate our way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to black & white classics, Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things gaaaaay on the silver screen. New episodes every other Thursday.
This film is a RIDE! Based on a British novel from the early 2000s about a pair of Victorian lesbian swindlers, Handmaiden places the same queer, erotic, thriller into Korea under Japanese colonial rule. Just you wait for our ratings! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
The gods have a lot in store for us this week. Amanda talks about being dragged out of the “dank woods”, Moiya suggests finding a third beaker, and Julia gets marriage advice from Hades of all people. Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of spiders, animal death, incest, death, depression, grief, family death, ableism, war, and animal violence. Guest Dr. Moiya McTier is a New York-based astrophysicist who studies planets outside of our solar system. She's also a folklorist who specializes in using science and logic to build fictional worlds. You can hear all about the worlds she's built on her podcast, Exolore, where she imagines, discusses, and reviews fictional worlds, often with expert guests. You can learn more about Moiya and her work on her website, moiyamctier.com. Housekeeping - MERCH! Preorder the Tarot Tee Shirt and get your other on-sale merch at spiritspodcast.com/merch! - Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends A Starstruck Odyssey from Dimension 20. - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out Multitude's newest member show, Queer Movie Podcast! This is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today! Sponsors - BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits - Calm is the #1 app to help you reduce your anxiety and stress and help you sleep better. Get 40% off a Calm Premium subscription at calm.com/spirits. - Doordash is a fast, convenient food delivery app. Get 25% off and zero delivery fees on your first order of $15 or more when you download the DoorDash app and enter code spirits. Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com. About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
We are joined for some cinema hot takes with one of our faves, Shaaba. She is a brown, bisexual creator and doctoral researcher. She spends most of her time on social media, encouraging self-confidence and breaking down stereotypes (the rest of her time is spent petting cats). You can find her on YouTube, Twitter, Twitch and Instagram. Give her some love. Find Us Online - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd About The Show Queer Movie Podcast is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we research and rate our way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to black & white classics, Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things gaaaaay on the silver screen. New episodes every other Thursday.
This was nearly an episode about Lesbian Vampire Killers. Instead, we we have chosen the 1970s vampiric gothic horror masterpiece, The Vampire Lovers starring Ingrid Pitt and Peter Cushing. Is it actually scary? Probably not, but vampires are inherently queer and this one is actually a lesbian! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd Transcript [Intro Music] JAZZA: Welcome to the Queer Movie Podcast, celebrating the best. ROWAN: And worst. JAZZA: In LGBTQ+ cinema. One glorious genre at a time. ROWAN: I'm Rowan Ellis. JAZZA: And I'm Jazza John. Each episode we discuss a movie from a different genre of cinema. ROWAN: This episode, genre is-- ROWAN & JAZZA: Queer Horror.. JAZZA: [vampire laugh] ROWAN: Thanks, Jazza. JAZZA: But, before we dive into this week's episode, Rowan, what's the gayest thing you've done since we last spoke? ROWAN: Well, this is actually something that I've wanted to do for a long time. But every time I've tried to do it, there's been a It's not been available for me. And that is volunteering for a Queer Organization specifically for a Queer Youth Group or kind of youth mentoring organization, something like that. And there's, sadly not a lot of them in London, and a lot of them kind of were at capacity or weren't doing their services because of COVID. But at the beginning of the year, I applied and I've just found out today that I've been accepted, so I'm very excited. I've got to do some training, obviously, very soon, but yeah, I'm gonna get to do some mentoring. JAZZA: It's gonna be so cool. And you're officially becoming a Queer Elder-- ROWAN: Oh my God. JAZZA: --soon anyway, aren't you? ROWAN: Yeah, I am. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: In a week's time, I will indeed hit 30 and therefore-- JAZZA: Good then. ROWAN: --become an OAP. JAZZA: Uh-huh. As a as a cis gay man, I stopped aging at 24. So let me know-- ROWAN: You never will reach that, yeah, I'll let you know what it's like. JAZZA: Awesome. Thank you so much. ROWAN: And Jazza, what's the gayest thing that you've done since we last spoke? JAZZA: So recently, the UK started lifting lockdown restrictions, right? And we were able to have familiar relations again. I had relations with an individual and was able for the first time to actually complete a full session of prep. Do you know how prep works? ROWAN: I was wondering where you were going with it. I was like, complete a full session of what? JAZZA: Yeah, it's not session-- ROWAN: --[2:00] I was like a full, a full session of-- JAZZA: A full of [2:03] like a-- ROWAN: --[2:03] relations, you able to what? JAZZA: I full cycle, a full cycle of [2:06]. ROWAN: Pretty you. JAZZA: So I do have that you're able to get it on the NHS now. And it is for anybody who doesn't know a medication that prevents you from getting HIV. And how it works is you're meant to take it two hours before you have relations. And then afterwards you've had relations in order to properly protect yourself. In the past, I have only ever prepared to have the relations and never had to complete the whole cycle of prep. ROWAN: Oh my God, that's the saddest thing I've ever heard, that's hilarious. JAZZA: Is it. ROWAN: You know what, that was excellent. That was a very good-- JAZZA: Thank you-- ROWAN: --gayest thing I've done since [2:42]-- JAZZA: Yeah yeah yeah. I feel like an actual adult now. ROWAN: Look at you. JAZZA: [2:45] yeah, look at me. Man in my 30s, finally able to look after myself. ROWAN: Full disclosure to everyone listening, Jazza as he said that grinning like a little schoolboy does have a tiny gnome figurine right behi--as he said, I felt like such an adult. There is a tiny gnome figurine right behind him. JAZZA: I'm an adult who collects plushies and plays D&D like these are-- ROWAN: You know what, fair enough. JAZZA: Yeah, these are not things that are mutually exclusive. ROWAN: Yeah, you know what, you're right. [3:09] [Transition Music] JAZZA: The film we have chosen for today is the 1970s vampiric Gothic horror masterpiece. The Vampire Lovers, starring Ingrid Pitt, and the absolute legendary Peter Cushing. So without further ado, let's start nibbling away at Roy Ward Baker's, The Vampire Lovers. ROWAN & JAZZA: [trumpet sound] ROWAN: Are you anticipating some kind of like dramatic horror music [3:47]-- JAZZA: Yeah, in my head like it's the the title card. ROWAN: Excellent. JAZZA: I actually, vampire [3:53]. ROWAN: I know we just said that we were going to go straight into talking about the history of the genre and the-- JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --context of it. But I just also need everyone to know not to make this the call out Jazza Podcast. But-- JAZZA: It it already is. ROWAN: --I came up with a whole list of, honestly, iconic wonderful, queer horror movies have come out. Especially some in the last few years. Because we have had an absolute amazing blossoming of queer horror within the last few years. I came up with an amazing shortlist. Jazza, came up with a movie that I immediately vetoed. That is the movie lesbian Vampire Killers. JAZZA: Uh-hmm. Which has James-- ROWAN: Which has-- JAZZA: Corden in it. ROWAN: --James Corden in it, is therefore I hate crime. And I immediately vetoed it. And then the list Jazza went through the list and it. Basically the secret came out that Jazza is a massive baby. And essentially would just was not able to watch an actual horror movie. And so-- JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --we have watched this movie, which is, horror in the most technical sense of the word. JAZZA: No, but it's like, it's it's a lot of foundations of horror, like, like it's a classic Gothic, lots of dark cobwebby castles. Lots of screen Queens, a couple of screen Kings. ROWAN: Yes, every element of horror except the bit where it's scary, which I think suited Jazza just fine. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: I think that was-- JAZZA: 100% ROWAN: --that was, I think he's very pleased with himself that he managed to get this. Because the other, we watched some of the trailers together. And there were a few trailers that Jazz stopped halfway through and went, "Oh, yes, I think we get the idea." And then, and it was very obvious why. JAZZA: Apparently, I'm quite good to watch horror movies with. Just know that if you ever watch a a legitimate horror movie with me, that is actually scary. I'm not having a nice time. And you know what, in this podcast that I am lucky enough to have with you, Rowan. I want to have a nice time, you know? And I don't think that's too much to ask. ROWAN: Okay, well, when we connect, spend actual time together, maybe I'll just I'll be like, oh, yeah, let's watch this nice little, like animated children's movie and then just slip in a horror movie instead. You could just hold onto my hand. JAZZA: Maybe next year's Halloween, we can have a special episode again. And you couldn't actually scare the hell out of me, it will be good. ROWAN: Yeah, if everyone could just audio clip Jazza, just then essentially promising on his on his firstborn son that he will watch a horror movie with me, that'd be great. So I know that Jazza, you've done normally when we watch these movies, we do a little bit of context. And then we talk to each other and go, oh, wait, shit, did we do the same context maybe hopefully, we looked up different bits of trivia otherwise is going to be very boring for both of us. And luckily, we had kind of done a mix. So I know that you've looked up Hammer Horror, which is the kind of studio and very specific niche genre that this particular movie is in. So would you like to tell me about it? I'm ready to learn. JAZZA: Yeah yeah yeah, so a Hammer, also great name, Hammer Productions. They were a production house in the UK, who were famous for bringing a lot of classic horror from the black and white era of the 1930s into color. We making a lot of the classics like Frankenstein, Dracula, The Mummy, etc. Remaking them into color movies for audiences throughout the 1950s and 60s. The other thing that they were very well known for doing is having a butt ton of sequels for everything. So this particular movie that we're doing. The Vampire Lovers, has two sequels to it. Lust for a Vampire, released the following year, and then Twins of Evil. Which as far as I have been able to find out on the Wikipedia page was just kind of like the same plot two more times, but with different actors. But to be fair, if the punters are going to go and watch it, then why not right? The reason the The Vampire Lovers itself is quite interesting, and is that a little bit of a tipping point in terms of cinema, is because it was towards the end of the strictness of the Hays Code in the US, which is a piece of us legislation that was very tight collared, around the depictions of sex, nudity, deviant acts like homosexuality. ROWAN: I'm gonna be annoying and interrupt here is the Queer Film Historian bitch on this podcast. Because I think it's genuinely interesting. It wasn't technically a piece of like Governmental Legislation as such, it was a code that was self-imposed by Hollywood on itself, specifically, because they thought that the government will be even more harsh, so they were like, oh, shit, like, let let's just, we promise no titties, no gays, no, no-- JAZZA: No titties, no gays. ROWAN: [8:39] for gays, we promise. And and so yeah, no, it's it's a, it's one of those kind of really interesting things actually happened with the comic, comic books as well, the Comic Code Authority happened as well. JAZZA: Mmm. ROWAN: A lot of industries at the time were like, well, I guess if someone's gonna do it, it might as well be us, to ourselves. JAZZA: Uh-hmm. Yeah yeah yeah. And this was kind of like, towards the end of the prolific nature of the Hays Code. And it was still actually really hard to get this past the censors. The Vampire Lovers, which obviously, is pretty gay. There's naked ladies and there's titties absolutely everywhere. And there's also a man who dies while he's having a piss. So it's not really kind of like the highest brow of entertainment. But the reason that they were able to get especially the the gay shit through the censors, even at the time as they were expanding. Was because it was based on the original source text from the 1800s, Carmilla, which is like a classic text. And because it's seen as a classic text, they were like, actually, this is basically Shakespeare. I don't think anybody actually said that. But essentially, that's how they managed to to get around it. ROWAN: Just being true to the original. JAZZA: Yeah yeah, exactly. But yeah, we're watching a a movie about lesbian vampires. Of course, there's going to be a little bit of a camper and Gothic horror is always just a little bit of camp. But it's also a really interesting moment in kind of like the attitudes of prudishness, that were in Hollywood throughout the 50s and 60s. ROWAN: Absolutely. I do, I do agree with you like Hammer Horror is just camp, it's just campy. Like it just has that energy to it in general-- JAZZA: It is now. ROWAN: --and I think as well like well, we'll talk about this when we're actually talking about the plot and the performances and stuff in the next section. But yeah, the acting of the time was not exactly the most based in like realism. And and I think that that style of acting that was popular then I think just is so imbued with camp-- JAZZA: Uh-huh. ROWAN: --as you look back on it now. Even if this hadn't had a load of vampires in it, I feel like it still would have felt a little bit-- JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --kind of queer energy. JAZZA: A 100%. It reminded me an awful lot of like Ryan Murphy guy. ROWAN: Oh, yeah. JAZZA: Which obviously is referential to this era of horror. And I was like, Oh, I 100% understand where all of these references now come from in, like our modern media as well. Rowan, you had, a you also went away and did some of your own research you clever bookworm slash website were around like, vampires, sexuality, all of those things. Would you end up fine, come on, show and tell. ROWAN: Well, basically, for those for those who don't know about the history of the vampire, it's kind of appears in a lot of different folktales and legends around different places. Just I think the idea of someone who needs to drain other people of their blood, which is very much linked to like, you know, lifeforce in a lot of cultures. It makes sense that there will be kind of mythology around that, and and kind of scary tales, and all that kind of thing. But it kind of didn't necessarily get a kind of literary grounding until the early 1800s. Were John Polidori, wrote The Vampyre, which was actually created kind of as part of the sort of Gothic horror writing contest that also produced, Frankenstein. It was a good, it was a good time that they were having in that rainy manor house. And kind of interestingly, the history of vampires, I think, has not necessarily been, obviously in the mainstream link to queerness. But when you start looking into the history of it, it's a lot of like reading between the lines when it's going on. So, for example, that original text of Vampyre, a lot of people kind of thought that potentially the that kind of central character was based on Lord Byron. There was a bit of a mix up as to who had originally written the tale. And it was attributed Lord Byron originally and then kind of had to be redacted. And so you kind of have this element of like, oh, there's this creeping queerness in there. And that only became like, more intensified when it came to Dracula, which came a bit later. Because again, Bram Stoker, lots of rumors about him being gay, he had a very close relationship with Oscar Wilde. He wrote some frankly, adoring love letters to Walt Whitman, really, really, very gay letters to Walt Whitman. And there are just some quotes that come up in the book that feel very much like they are centered around the kind of repressed, a repressed homosexuality-- JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --shall we say. A lot of people have pointed out the fact that he basically started to write Dracula very, very soon after Oscar Wilde's trial and conviction. And that there was potentially a link between that and like the anxieties of being this like queer man who was worried about being like, discovered. So obviously, as with much of queer history, it is not provable. But I do think it's very interesting. And it's something a lot of people have have talked about. But yeah, I think vampire stories in general, as well as being kind of horror, obviously have a lot of links to the idea of sexuality, and and sexual anxieties, I guess over the years. JAZZA: When we're looking at this area as well. It's really difficult to kind of like put the gay label on it. Because it wasn't a term that they used for themselves-- ROWAN: No. JAZZA: --either, but we're just kind of trying to view it for our own lens. ROWAN: Yeah, exactly. So in Dracula, for example, you've got Lucy, the character of Lucy, who's this kind of like symbol of the new woman. So kind of more independent and breaking free of the constraints of society, especially sexual constraints. And so if she sort of gives herself or is compromised by this kind of foreign invader, then she becomes this corrupted figure, which is very, you know, if you read through the lines, metaphorically, it's very much a sort of like fallen woman virginity loss kind of situation. And then yeah, I mean, spoiler alert for Dracula, but she ends up being staked by like, all of the men who she had been pursuing at one point or another during the story, and dies-- JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --this death that's very, like writhing around and bleeding, and it's very kind of like, you know, symbolically resonant in a lot of ways. So yeah, I think I think that like even if you come to Twilight, or to more modern depictions of vampires, it doesn't necessarily have a Victorians lens of sexuality. It has a modern lens, but it's still feels like it might be commenting in some way. So there's a lot more sort of, in the vampire as the romantic lead for women's or like girls fiction, it becomes much more about a man who needs to control his natural impulses, and that he's able to do it for you. The female love interest. JAZZA: That's the Twilight stuff isn't? ROWAN: Exactly. JAZZA: I'll be honest, I wasn't even I wasn't even making that link in like, I feel like Twilight is such a long time ago now. ROWAN: Ancient history. JAZZA: Yeah, yeah. But like, seriously, but yeah, I didn't even make that link of kind of like sexual request-ness. But then I haven't really read, I haven't read any of the Twilight books, I've only seen the movie. So maybe that's why it's not at the front of my mind. ROWAN: Well, allegedly Stephenie Meyer did come up with the idea from some kind of romantically charged dream that she had. And she is quite from quite a religious background. So I think that the sexual repression and morality element to it is, it's not has not been not commented on by people in the past. So yeah, so I definitely think that the vampire legend and mythology and stuff has always had links to sex in some way and to that kind of forbidden element of sex. And I think that that only gets more apparent when you talk about sex that is genuinely forbidden and taboo in the way that kind of same gender relationships might be. So yeah, it completely makes sense, lesbian vampires completely make sense on a literary level. And it very much is not just a kind of, ohhh, she's sexy, and she's a lesbian, and she's a vampire. It's like, oh, there is actually some kind of literary backing to making this a a thing in your films. JAZZA: Did you have because I accidentally came across this while I was looking through stuff around the source material for The Vampire Lovers, which is like a a vampire novel that predates Dracula by a couple of decades called Carmilla. About a lesbian female vampire. And apparently she's based on this Hungarian, I believe she's a Princess. She's a fancy person, uhm, called Elizabeth Boothroyd. Have you seen her a bit about her? ROWAN: If this is who I think it is? Yeah, I think she married into a family and got an absolute ton of land and power from it and use that to allegedly just kill a lot of servant girls, and some minor nobility. JAZZA: Some set I don't think we have to say allegedly anymore. This was in like the the 15, 16 [16:54]-- ROWAN: She's not gonna [16:55]-- JAZZA: [16:56] I think we're gonna get sued by Elizabeth III of Hungary fame, but she apparently killed up to 650 people and there was some people who say that she used to bathe in their blood to maintain like youth? Some of this is urban legends now, and there's some people that say that she inspired because she was from the Kingdom of Hungary. Which at that time included, Slovakia and Romania, which is kind of like the part of the world that is where like, vampiric culture comes from, I guess? And some people even suggest that she inspired Carmilla and Dracula. But yeah, like, it's an interesting part of kind of like also the, the empowered woman as well, which was definitely, I mean, deviant for the time that vampire novels became really, really big in the Victorian era. But certainly for like the 1500-1600s when she was alive, as well. And kind of like the fear and the weariness of the empowered, maybe sexualized women as well. I kind of like themes that run through this type of horror too. ROWAN: Indeed, without I guess, should we go into talking about the actual movie and how the lesbian vampires sort of displays herself. JAZZA: Displays herself. ROWAN: Displays herself in this movie JAZZA: Sometimes literally displays herself-- ROWAN: Quite literally. JAZZA: Uh-hmm. [18:15] [Transition Music] [18:15] [ADS] JAZZA: Dear listener, there's only so many times you can lean on your ability to make a [18:25] gin and tonic. Trust me, I've had the headaches to prove it. Sometimes you need to shake up your drinks trolley, pun intended, and shaker and spoon subscription cocktail box is the perfect way to do that. Each box they send you contains enough ingredients to make three different cocktails with your favorite Spirits. All you need is to buy your own bottle and then you have all you need to craft 12 cocktails at home. It's between 40 and 50 of your American dollars every month, excluding the price of the bottle you buy. So is a sensible way to expand your drinking palette. You can even skip boxes or cancel whenever you like, my darlin'. Imagine if you will, clowning around some popcorn with your loved ones and a fancy cocktail in hand. Enjoying your own Queer Movie Night. Yes, you too, can experience what we experienced together here on this podcast. We support you. And don't forget to get $20 off your first box by going to shakerandspoon.com/queermovie, that's shakerandspoon.com/queermovie. Queer Movie Podcast is part of Multitude which is like a cool little collective of creatives. We like to give our audio siblings a shout out every now and again. And I'm very excited to recommend to you X0 Law. In case you haven't noticed yet, Rowan and I are big nerds. Rowan has her Disney and D&D, I have my love of Final Fantasy in the expanse novels. So this podcast is like catnip to us. Dr. Moyer McTeer is the host and as the coolest job description of Astrophysicist and folklorist. Which honestly, has made wondering what I've been doing with my life. Each episode she goes through the how to of fictional world creation, meaning you can apply her findings to any and all creative projects that you yourself are working on. Are you creating a home route for your D&D table? Are you scribbling away on your first Sci-fi novel? Do you find this stuff interesting? That's fine, too. Honestly, it's necessary educational listening. I had a particularly fun time listening to Moyer and guest Clark Robinson go through the mechanics of building a world magic system. And I think you'll find it interesting too. So go give X0 Law a listen, and tell the doctor we sent you. Now, back to the show. [21:02] [Transition Music] ROWAN: So we normally split this into three different parts. JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: We haven't conferred beforehand about what those parts are going to look like for this particular movie. But I have a feeling that we have a very similar thru line. JAZZA: Hmm. ROWAN: The first part I have referred to, because there was only one way we could refer to this part, given that in so many other films that we have covered in our previous episodes. This was also the title of a section of the film. JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: The Party and its Aftermath. JAZZA: Yeah. 100% It starts with the party and its aftermath. It's very all interesting things start with a party, as does this movie. ROWAN: Yeah, for some reason, so many stories. Normally, the party in its aftermath is the last act. JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: Whereas in this one, it's, it's the first so essentially, what happens at the beginning of this movie is that we have this man who's narrating talking about the fact that his sister has died and he is going on this revenge plot. Castle ruins, evil European family, some very helpful vampire lore up front. He lets us-- JAZZA: Uh-huh. ROWAN: know you got to decapitate them. You got a stake in through the heart. We're getting a lot of exposition, but you know what, that's just how he rolls. JAZZA: It was quick. It was quick and acceptable. I feel like you know, for [22:20]-- ROWAN: Ding, ding, ding! Here we go. JAZZA: But also, is anyone gonna come into something called The Vampire Lovers, cold as to what a vampire is. ROWAN: Unlikely. JAZZA: Like, I feel like most people are probably gonna know broadly, what a vampire is and how you kill it. ROWAN: Exactly. So it's it's the classic star of the vampire killer is here. He's narrating to us what's about to happen. We have a very fast zoom in on a guy's neck with fang bites. The camera angles and uses within this movie are just very intense. They really love a good zoom in, dramatic zoom in. They really like a good kind of interesting shots, shall we say throughout this. Which I did, did think heighten the camp element. But with, yeah, very quintessential have a horror stuff. The evil figure of the vampire looked like I would say a Halloween sheet ghost costume, mixed with a Dementor. JAZZA: Oh, well, you have ruined that now. I thought it looks like really quite impressive. ROWAN: I did as well. Yeah, no, that isn't to diminish how-- JAZZA: Okay, cool. ROWAN: --creepy it did look. JAZZA: Cool. I think that is an accurate description of what it was dressed as to be fair. ROWAN: Yeah, I was like, you know what, if people aren't going to go back and watch this movie, if they're just listening this to to hear a little bit about lesbian vampires. I want to paint them a picture. And the picture is-- JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --a teenager. You know what I'm going to build on this picture. The picture is a teenager who has been asked by their parents to take out their little kid sister and the local sisters friends trick or treating at Halloween. He obviously is too cool for Halloween costumes at this point. He's at that age where it's not cool again. And it's it's, it was cool when he was a kid but he's like, he's he's 15 now, yeah? So he is like, "Urgh, fine!" And he goes into the airing covered and he just gets a sheet and he's like, "Are you happy now?" And he cuts it lies in the sheets. He doesn't care. It's that mix with a Dementor? JAZZA: Uh-hmm, and lace. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: There was lots of lakes. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: Yeah, ROWAN: If you just put that in your head. You've seen him, you can imagine it. JAZZA: Yeah, 100%. I also love the like beyond just the vampire and the fact that it is a bedsheet. I love the rest of the costuming in this movie, but especially our narrator and the fact that he's there with kind of like his large Bejeweled ring, long sideburns and kind of like ruffled lace cuffs as well. And as he's got kind of got his hand up to his face in shock like, "Huh?!!", you see the rough come out of his sleeve. oh, and it's quite beautiful. It's it's beautiful [24:53], I love it. And all of that coupled with like the artificial fog on the clearly papier-mâché castle. The fake IV and the fact that it's all moonlit night time. I loved it. I was here for it. I felt like I was on a movie set because I was. ROWAN: Oh yeah, I've completely agree with you there. My note that I made for this section was for a movie about lesbian vampires. We're getting a lot of this random dude. JAZZA: Who disappears for-- ROWAN: He disappears-- JAZZA: --the rest of the movie, by the way. ROWAN: --for most of the rest of the movie, he comes back at the end. JAZZA: Uh-hmm. Yeah, and comes back at the very end to ruin it with men. ROWAN: Yes, well, I mean, what we don't want to give you any spoilers right now. You're gonna get spoilers in approximately how many minutes and take hours to get to the end act. The other note I made was vampire girl is cute and blonde has very shiny hair, please drop the routine. So I was thinking-- JAZZA: I think, I think it's being, I think, I think the routine is being immortal. ROWAN: You know what? That makes sense, that checks out. I will say, and we kind of briefly talked about this before we started to record. But the the effects were really good. The there's a computation that happens at this point, and genuinely very, very good special effects, very well-practical effects. JAZZA: Yeah, like they had Madame Tussaud's head being like, cut off loads of blood everywhere. I laughed when the vampire was killed at the beginning of the movie. I'm sure people in 1970 may have been genuinely shocked. It's-- ROWAN: Mmm. JAZZA: --really difficult for me to put myself in the mindset of somebody in the 1970s. ROWAN: I don't know whether someone in the 1970s didn't I I think they understood what movies were, Jazza. Like I don't think that they were that gonna be that shocked? I think. JAZZA: It's not quite like in the 1920s when they first showed people a train covered [26:45]-- ROWAN: Yeah and they ran away. JAZZA: --and people ran out of the movie. Yeah, yeah yeah. ROWAN: No, I think that, I think that there was like, it was campy back then it was campy now. It was very much, yeah, my favorite bit of this whole big very, very beginning section before we get to the party, is the disclaimer. Because it goes from this section. It's like a good cold open if, you know, this guy's a vampire hunters. He's a eventing a sister, this is woman who's going around trying to kill people. We get some some of him explaining how to kill a vampire. And we also get her just being really really scared of a cross so you know, ohh, that bit of laws also correct. But once when the kind of credits start to roll at the beginning, there is a disclaimer that any characters or events portrayed are clearly fictitious, which definitely feels like something real vampires making a movie would say. JAZZA: You saying, are we gonna have to make keep our eye out for more evidence that these are actual vampires making actual movies? ROWAN: Is Peter Cushing a vampire? Who can tell? JAZZA: Actually, you know what? He was somehow invoke one, so-- ROWAN: He does have the vibes. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: So then we get to the actual party, which is so aggressively 60s in its hair, makeup and clothing. JAZZA: Oh my god, the eyeliner? ROWAN: It's incredible. JAZZA: --the eyeliner. I was taking notes for my drag character. Like I am doing cat eyes from now on. ROWAN: I would honestly love to see you as a in drag as a lesbian vampire. I feel like that will be beautiful. JAZZA: Hey, just you weren't into Halloween this year. ROWAN: It'll happen. Also in in in, again, with the over the top style acting the over the top style props and stuff. I'm not gonna lie to you, there is no way that you could watch this film with the sound on and not know who the baddies are. Because the music, really is not subtle. There is no no subtleties to this music, you very quickly know who is you're meant to find menacing. Which they needed to do because the acting is so wooden. It's really trying to like give you something give you some indication because the characters are basically just standing around without expressions. JAZZA: And also like makeup. So you assume that the man who clearly has a inch of white stick on his face. You assume that he is the bad guy vampire, because he turns up has a flowy cape and is whiter than I am. ROWAN: Uhmm. JAZZA: Which is saying something. ROWAN: Now's a good time to point out this man. So basically the plot of the party is there's like, well, there's not much but essentially it's just an excuse for our lead lesbian vampire to turn up. And for her, we assume lesbian vampire mother to, I don't know why I said lesbian, specifically of. Mainly, we can assume she's a vampire. She might also be a lesbian, it's unconfirmed. Kind of drops her off and is like, Oh no, who will look after my daughter while I conveniently have to go away. JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: And they're like, well, I guess we'll look after her. So this whole party is essentially setting up, that she's gonna have to stay with this family for a little while. But every so often interspersed is just the aforementioned man that Jazza has just briefly described. Who just has a very bad like white face paint makeup on and looks very Draculary and just sort of grins a lot. And he's just never explained the entire movie, it's great. JAZZA: Yeah, and every now and again, throughout the movie, there will be a shot of the lesbian vampires doing lesbian vampire things, And then that will cast away as a transition to a silhouette of the man with the white face on the on the horse. And I'm like, this movie wants us to believe that this this, I assume that, we know he is a vampire. He's confirmed to be a vampire at the end, because he smiles and has the-- ROWAN: It's canon. JAZZA: Yeah, it's canon. But he is confirmed to be a vampire. And I'm like, are we to believe that he is the one pulling the strings of everything? I think that's what we're meant to believe. In which case I kind of dislike because part of the thing that I loved about this movie was the women leads and women like the middle section of the movie is just the women kind of like conversing and trying to kill one another. Why does there have to be a male puppet, puppet master? But then I realized, or, like shoot this down Rowan, and I'm sure you will if you if you do think it is shit. ROWAN: Pew, pew. JAZZA: Pew pew. He's Dracula, right? ROWAN: Well, okay, so it's this question of like, the Dracula character is so well-known and so iconic in everything about him. Not necessarily the actual original Dracula from the book because most depictions of Dracula are nothing like him. But the image of him that has been created by Hollywood by movies and by kind of not even just urban legends. But like people's people's imagination from from movies and like physical-- JAZZA: Uh-hmm uh-hmm. ROWAN: --representations of him. So I think it will be very logical to assume that it was meant to be Dracula. But it's it may be it's just because he is so synonymous with vampires we see. If we saw any vampire that looked vaguely like old timey pale skin, we would maybe assume it was Dracula. JAZZA: But then who else is it going to be? Like, so Carmilla is our titular vampire lover. ROWAN: uh-hmm. JAZZA: And apart from Dracula, like obviously, they're originally from different universes from different books. They are-- ROWAN: Different cinematic universes. JAZZA: Yeah yeah. This this is like Marvel and DC. ROWAN: Most ambitious crossover, The Vampire Lovers. JAZZA: But if it's going to be anybody, I feel like it has to be Dracula. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: Because, I feel like nobody else is gonna be calling the shots for Carmilla. ROWAN: Uhmm. JAZZA: And even arguably, you'd argue that Carmilla wouldn't be like canonically in the book. She wouldn't be taking any direction from no man. But-- ROWAN: Indeed. JAZZA: So we should probably introduce Carmilla, our main lesbian vampire. ROWAN: At this point going by Marcilla-- JAZZA: Marci-- ROWAN: --in an extremely clever, different version of her name. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: It's not it was like it was a fake name, but it was just weirdly close to her actual name. JAZZA: It's a little bit too close, right? So she is played by Ingrid Pitt, who is a Polish-British Actress, and her Wikipedia page, incredibly impressive. She is a Holocaust survivor. Did you know that? ROWAN: I didn't. It's really, I mean, the Hammer Horror, I know that we're kind of taking the mick out of it. But ultimately, they it has produced some incredibly iconic, especially British Actors and Actresses. JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: A lot of them were in like, a ton of those very specific Hammer Horror movies and like, very much became, like icons because of it. So I didn't know that about her. But we love to learn. JAZZA: Yes, she's a, she was a a a Polish Jew and was born 1937 was in a concentration camp in, in Poland. Managed to escape to the UK. And then what it was the era when all of the all of Hollywood were kind of like marrying like seven or eight times. She's had several marriages, she's not had seven or eight, she's had three marriages. But what had the whole classic thing of you know what, I'm just going to become an Actress. Moved to Hollywood, was a waitress for years until she got discovered. And I've got to say, I think that she carries the rest of the cast, I will say including, Peter Cushing. ROWAN: How dare you, sir. JAZZA: I I mean, this is one of his performances. There are other things that he's done better. But she carries this whole movie on her shoulders, I think Ingrid Pitt. I think that she is not, she's not so camp, that it makes it funny. But she really ups the energy, like throughout the film in all of the scenes and the development of her character. ROWAN: Yeah, I agree. So I I kind of made a note about this, I think that you can see within her fighting to get out is some complexity around Carmilla. To the point where I like kept thinking it was going to be discussed in some way. So what essentially happens as I mentioned at the party, we it's it's a mechanism for Carmilla and Laura to become friends and have to stay together in the house. JAZZA: Uhm. ROWAN: Laura, basically slowly starts losing her mind. She starts suffering from nightmares that she's being attacked by this giant cat. She screams a lot. Oh, boy, do they love to scream in this. JAZZA: I love it so much. ROWAN: It's I, okay, I'm going to give you another metaphor for the scream. The scream is like, the scream that you get in a high school movie. When a teenager has been punked by their younger brother. And their hair, like their hair has been dyed green. And they look directly into the mirror that is also directly into the camera and they take a deep breath and then they scream. And then the camera zooms out, like to the house and into the like country and then a load of-- JAZZA: Yeah, yeah yeah. ROWAN: --birds like flutter out of trees. That's the vibe-- JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: --from every scream and there's multiple in this particular movie. JAZZA: Well I love Rowan is that we're very quickly realizing that this season of recording review podcasts, all of your references are going to be to team trash moments. Like that's-- ROWAN: Yeah, the best of all genres. Other than horror, but I know that you can't handle that, obviously. So I decided to [35:37]-- JAZZA: [35:37] lead by you. ROWAN: So yeah, this is very kind of classic Gothic idea of like, slowly trying to figure out like, what's real? What's not real? Did I might actually being attacked? This is a nightmare. Has someone caused me to feel this way? And while this is happening, we get this very intense kind of friendship going on between these two women. I think there's literally an an exchange or one of them says I shall die when you leave. And the other is like, I shall never leave you. And then they do kissy kiss, kiss kiss. JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: But what's also really interesting to me, which I actually feel like I still see a lot in lesbian movies is that there is no actual relationship development. Which makes sense in this film, because it's like supernatural allure, right? It's like her being like, I'm just this lesbian vampire. And so you're gonna fall for me, even though we literally have never had a conversation properly. Like, we never see that on screen. But I often see that to my mind, at least in lesbian movies. Especially the like historic lesbian movies, where they just really love to bank on the idea of like the repressed women trope. And so they're like, we don't have to have them have conversations and talk about things because they've repressed, right? They just sort of inexplicably now want to kiss. There's no build up and nothing and no discussions. And so I was like, at least here it makes sense. Canonically with the idea of her having this like sexual allure to her victims. JAZZA: Yeah, it kind of does. I I I will, and this is something that people smarter than me have talked about, about Carmilla the original text from the 1800s. Where she juxtaposes with a character like Dracula, because Carmilla actually seems to genuinely fall in love with the people that she ends up killing, alternative vampires. And I felt like Pitt's depiction of the, she was really good at kind of like, I believed that she really did care for these young women that she ended up, spoiler, kills. ROWAN: Uhm. Yeah, completely agree. There's these, there are just these moments where she's the character on her own like, and she suddenly has this look of like, deep grief or deep sadness or deep like confliction in her. And I'm like, oh, if this wasn't a Hammer Horror, like I, this same story could be played out. And we really could have dug into the idea of like, I need to do this to survive, or like I cannot, this is what I was meant to do. Like, I've been living for hundreds of years. And this is what's always happened. But this is like, mentally horrific. And I feel like there's some interesting like vampire media that does explore this idea of like, what do you do if you just keep on living? And you have to hurt people in order to survive, like, what does that look like? That and see, or-- JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --seeing that conflict of someone who has fallen for someone for that, for real for the first time. That previously it hadn't been things like, these things are really interesting to explore, not where this film is going. Another spoiler alert gang, there there is no complex comes, the biggest complexity is this very specific look that we have interpreted from an actress who was not given anything else in the script to work with. JAZZA: Yeah. Shall we just say this up before? Up the [38:37]-- ROWAN: We shout. JAZZA: --out for that. The script is not this movie's strong point. ROWAN: Uhm. Yeah, if you couldn't have told that already. I feel like we've really hinted quite heavily at it, so far. JAZZA: Yes. ROWAN: But yeah, so the end of this first section is essentially, Laura is bitten. She has these fang bites on her. She she dies, and Marcilla is like, Bye!!! JAZZA: Yeah, disappears. ROWAN: I'm out of here, baby. JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: And so we get to our second section. [39:04] [Transition Music] JAZZA: So that first section has basically, it's the bullet point version of what's going to happen next with a new girl, essentially. ROWAN: Uh-hmm. JAZZA: That's what going to happen-- ROWAN: Yes, that's exactly. That's exactly it. JAZZA: Like this is what Carmilla does. She is parachuted in convolutedly to be, to befriend a young woman in a manor house. And then gradually over time, kills her, while terrorizing the local peasantry as well. Because every now and again we'll have like a peasant washer woman running through the forest. Who then stumbles falls and then screams and does the as you said, that [scream] kind of moment. ROWAN: Wonderful impression. Yes. JAZZA: Thank you. I'm conscious of of peeking the mic. Otherwise, I would delete, you know, I [39:52]-- ROWAN: Oh, yeah. No, I know you would. So this one we get a little more titillation, though. Like we functionally you're right, it's exactly the same story. But we do get a little more titillation. So we have like Emma comes into Carmilla's room. Welcome in there is just naked in the bath, and just has a casual conversation about-- JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --the dresses that they're going to wear and Carmilla's like, you should take everything off for you try on this dress, because it ruins the shape to have underwear on. And she's like, oh, okay, like there's literally no reason for the scene apart from for the audience have like this kind of sex and fear and horror and campaign nudity and like all this stuff coming together in in the way that it's often does. So even at that point, I was like, oh, this is ridiculous. And then they start chasing each other around while topless in, what I genuinely think might be the most unconvincing chase scene in all of cinema. JAZZA: It's kind of like when you see if the like, in in maybe a more modern movie where two women have been asked to, do a pillow fight and and it's sexy. Just trust me, it's sexy. All the way through this second conquest of Carmilla of Emma's character who is this the wide idiot, frankly. ROWAN: Yeah, she does have a type doesn't she? JAZZA: Yeah yeah. Oh my God, I didn't even think of it like that. But yeah yeah, though I did it. But she like I I I found myself questioning all the way through kind of like this moment of undressing and Ooh, tits or bear ass, you know. I don't want and can you answer this for me? Is this sexy? ROWAN: Well as a sexual lesbian, Jazza, I don't really, I I'm both highly qualified and utterly unqualified to answer that question-- JAZZA: Which is-- ROWAN: --no, not in my mind. But I think as well it's it's it's that I think that the sexiness with this release, I don't know maybe there's probably some lesbians that are just like, yes, tits. But I think, like, we have them, we know what they look like. So it's kind of like, what did someone else I feel like it's the connection that that-- JAZZA: Made that that logic. I just, I just want to put this out there that logic does not-- ROWAN: Not, no, that's fair enough. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: But it is this thing of like, there is literally no feeling of connection between them during that chase scene. Like, I think there are other bits where there's more like when they're doing this sort of hypnotizes seductressy bit that like, feels like they're-- JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --slightly monstering chemistry. But like, that scene where they're chasing each other around could not have been-- JAZZA: Less sexy. ROWAN: --less sexy, if it tried like it just in an embarrassing kind of way that's like, Oh, God, I guess I'm watching this now, this is happening. Because I do think as well, it is like, it is very funny to me, because I think immediately just reminds me of the super, the super cliche to the point where it's almost become a meme thing that happens with gay male characters in movies. And in porn as well, where they, they kind of have a like, they're sort of play fighting, and then suddenly, it's like, oh, no, now we are on top of each other and it is sexual. JAZZA: Uh-huh. ROWAN: Like-- JAZZA: CRGBF episode. ROWAN: Yeah, it's like it's it's such a trope. And it's so funny that it kind of like this was like, even less convincing than those things. I was really interested to see, because this was on so many sort of, like, you know, classic queer movie lists. But typically movies that are this old, you don't really have the actual canonical confirmation in any way. And you definitely do in this movie, like they, they really have it up and although it does fall into the trope, we'll talk about in a second about like, kind of the evil lesbian trope. It's supernatural and over the top and kind of didn't mind it in that way. But yeah, once again, Emma starts having nightmares. Start screaming, everyone else kind of goes away on like, the day goes away on business. She has a suitor, but he's not you know, it's it's in the olden times. So he doesn't really come-- JAZZA: Uh-hmm, uh-hmm. ROWAN: --around all the time. He just occasionally, he'll turn up. But we'll be do have it's a little bit different is the kind of Governess character-- JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: --like Mme. Perrodot, who's kind of like becomes this accomplice to Carmilla. Because she's just seducing everyone. JAZZA: I love Carmilla and The Governess. And I want them to go away and have a home with the what was the cat's name? Gustav. ROWAN: Oh, yeah, you know what-- JAZZA: I want to-- ROWAN: --you're right. JAZZA: --go move to a cottage in the Romanian countryside and just live with Gustav. Because, uhm, so as well as seducing Emma, Carmilla begins seducing and killing all of the peasantry around the mansion. Carmilla begins to seduce The Governess. And that is when it does get sexy. And I was like, oh, all of a sudden there actually feels like there is chemistry between these two women. And I thought that Carmilla had turned The Governess into a vampire? But it turns out that she doesn't that The Governess is just have familia and just really fancy is the pants off of Carmilla. ROWAN: Uh-hmm. JAZZA: And to be fair with an ass like that. ROWAN: I mean, who can blame her? JAZZA: Mmm. ROWAN: But yeah, that's an interesting thing here. Again, I'll come back to when we talk about lesbian trips versus exchange that happens between Emma and Carmilla about, you know, I love you. I don't want anyone taking you away from me and Emma being like, we'll always be friends. She's like, no, it's not the same thing, it's different. I want you to love me for all your life. Like it's very much the idea of like Carmilla is the predatory, kind of obsessive like actual lesbian. And then you have this like poor innocent Emma who didn't didn't understand what was happening. Like-- JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --she didn't know that that was what was going on in the mind of this perverted lesbian vampire. JAZZA: I sometimes also get the the feeling that Carmilla was a bit of a like the lesbian version of a nagging dude, bro. Like she keeps on telling, telling Emma there's, ahh you talk such nonsense. Like, getting really defensive about the way that she feels about funerals, for example. ROWAN: Oh, bloody he hates funerals. JAZZA: Completely gaslights, Emma about like the bite marks on her being from a brooch and not from anything else. ROWAN: Yeah, truly Carmilla is the gaslight, gatekeeper, girlboss of all, of all [46:00]-- JAZZA: That is, that is the classification that we needed. Thank you very much, Rowan, I appreciate it. ROWAN: I don't know if you had anything else to say about this section. Cuz I think the third section is like the boys are back in town. JAZZA: Oh, I called the third section. Lesbian Vampire Killers. ROWAN: Oh, yeah. You know what, that also works very well. [46:16] [Transition Music] ROWAN: This is essentially when all of the guys and tada like, hey, I don't know whether you've noticed how every woman is dying in the local area by having their blood drained. But I think there may be foul play at work. JAZZA: Uh-hmm. Can I just say the men, they have been practically no men having speaking parts in this movie, for like a good 50% of the middle part of it. The first 25% is Carmilla and the aftermath party. And then we have 50% of just women. seducing one another and being hot. And-- ROWAN: And Gustav, the cat. JAZZA: --and, and Gustav, the cat, of course. So I won't forget Gustav, the cat. And then these men come in. And I'll be completely honest, I forgotten who most of them were. ROWAN: Oh, yeah, I fully could not remember any of these men were. JAZZA: And what their relationships were with the women previously. So it is all of the aggrieved men who have been affected by cumulus murdering. So it is the father of Laura who she killed in act one. It is the suitor of Emma, who-- ROWAN: Uh-hmm. JAZZA: --at this point is going through the stages of death as well. And also the father of Emma as well, who has just come back from business. ROWAN: Ooh, and surprised that guy from the beginning who who was narrating. JAZZA: Oh, sure, the guy of the sideburns. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: [47:52] caps. ROWAN: [47:52] there's also just randomly like, there's a Doctor, there's a butler, there's a landlord. JAZZA: Yeah, all of these men that, I'll be honest movie I didn't I don't care about and I feel like it wanted us to root for the men because they're the ones who are like injustice. And I was like, now I know that Carmilla is going around and killing all of these doe wide dumb women. But I'm on her side, I'll be completely honest. And I kind of want the men to leave them alone so that they can have their happy lesbian life with The Governess and Gustav. ROWAN: Yeah. And instead, the men keep trying to bring garlic flowers into their room, which is honestly-- JAZZA: [48:27] ROWAN: --very rude. JAZZA: Yeah, so one of the workers in the mansion, Mr. Venton, is supposed to be a, no, he's not really a hero. Basically, I immediately dislike him because we introduced him as he slaps the ass of a bar wench in the peasant village. He then decides, oh, yeah, definitely everything that's happening to Emma is vampiric in nature. He reckons the vampire is The Governess, actually, rather than Carmilla. And then starts talking with the landlord of the local pub, and getting advice and so brings in garlic flowers to Emma's bedroom, to try and ward off the vampires and causing a Doctor who also as well as encouraging the use of these flowers, brings in a a crucifix and puts it around Emma's neck. Which makes it impossible for both Carmilla and for The Governess to go into the womb and to complete the killing of our delight [49:33] ROWAN: Yeah. Which ultimately, yeah, great plan to be honest, it did work. They pretty foolproof. JAZZA: Yeah, it was pretty good until Venton get seduced by Carmilla and just goes, you know what, all I want to do is make out with you and I'm going to like murder this girl for it. And you know what? I was happy to see him die at the hands of Carmilla, good for her. ROWAN: And then she's also like, ohh, going to kill the Doctor and all, like just the though we have a nice scene when the Doctor's Horse get super spooked. And she somehow, I guess is teleported there. Because she never really seems to leave the house and yet she's always off body killing people. So yeah she's, she's like you know what? We, enough of this. JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: No thank you. So kind of simultaneously while all of the the lads are going on a little road trip to her old family castle to try and-- JAZZA: Yeah, where she's buried. ROWAN: Yeah. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: She's like Oop, time for a kidnap and decides to essentially kidnap Emma, and in the process dump The Governess. JAZZA: Can I just say this just cemented, cemented Carmilla was an, as the absolute fuck boy if this movie, ROWAN: You're, you know what? You're absolutely right. She is-- JAZZA: Like-- ROWAN: --she is the fuck boy-- JAZZA: --literally-- ROWAN: --of this movie. JAZZA: --The Governess is there on the floor, begging, take me with you. She loves you, she wants to create that life with Gustav. ROWAN: She wants the cottage called dream with the cat-- JAZZA: [50:58] of this-- ROWAN: --and, in the woods, in Romanian. JAZZA: Who knew in the 1970s that this was going to pave the way for the Cottagecore Movement and-- ROWAN: I know, right. JAZZA: --Lesbian Cottagecore Movement. ROWAN: That's the true history of it. And then there's so much screaming again, classic. Because she decides to to feed on The Governess and-- JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN: --maybe shouldn't have done that in front of Emma. If she wanted Emma-- JAZZA: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --to come away with her. But you know she did and that's on her. So all the screaming again. And then the suitor is here to save the day, whose name is Carl. Which-- JAZZA: Didn't know it is, no, I completely missed that. What? That's very funny-- ROWAN: It's Carl, yeah. Carl's here to save the day and so Carmilla-- JAZZA: Carl.. ROWAN: --looks like, ohh, well, I guess a bit of skip town. This is too much for me, and then runs back to the castle. Which obviously we as the audience know is filled with the lads who are up to no good. JAZZA: The Lesbian Vampire Killer. ROWAN: Yeah. The Lesbian Vampire Killer, the lads. And so yeah, she just runs back to the castle, has a little nap. And then while she's napping, doesn't notice them all come around her coffin and and stab her in the heart. JAZZA: I can I just say they don't, she doesn't notice them. Finding her coffin, moving a massive, kind of like slate off of her coffin. Carrying her coffin into the chapel, opening the coffin, then moving her dress down so that expose his, her chest and then placing the stake on her breast so that they can actually stub her. She doesn't notice any of that, she's fast asleep, bless her. ROWAN: She's hibernating, [52:22] we nap and she deserves it. JAZZA: Very cute. This is all happening during the night as well. And that's when she's to be awake? ROWAN: Hmm, doing question is fine. She's she's hibernating. JAZZA: And then they once again they stab her through the chest. She is then decapitated, which again, the physical effects of this movie. We're not what I was expecting for 1970, that is very nice. ROWAN: That's very good. JAZZA: Have we gone backwards? ROWAN: Possibly, I I genuinely feel like the special effects of Jurassic Park hold up better than the special effects of Jurassic World. So, yes, you're you're correct. The audience of the goodies. JAZZA: I am with you. ROWAN: I really enjoyed that they were like yeah, Peter Cushing can have the killing blow. He's a he's the star of this, is no real connection to a lot of what's going on here but sure. And then at the end come in his portrait on the wall has changed to be all vampire instead of all hot like she was before. JAZZA: Very doing great. ROWAN: Yeah, it's great. It was it was very much like Chekhov's decapitation. Because they did the guy at the very beginning was like, the only way you can kill them as if you decapitate them. And it's like, oh, I wonder if that will come back later on. It's like, a plot point. And then yeah, that was the end of the movie we had, we have experienced, The Vampire Lovers. JAZZA: Uh-hmm, uh-hmm. Rowan did you [53:36], how how was this, how was this experience for you? Because obviously this isn't what you wanted. You wanted quote unquote, "real horror". ROWAN: So here's the thing. JAZZA: Mmm, go! ROWAN: I will admit, when we were coming up with these movies, and we and you decided that we were going to watch The Vampire Lovers, I was worried. JAZZA: Can I just say, I rolled a dice when decided this. ROWAN: Yeah, you did annoyingly. JAZZA: So it wasn't me that decided it was the dice. ROWAN: The dice, it was the thing. I would admit, the time I was a bit like, disappointed because I like, no that, I don't know if I'm that interested in this or whatever. But then I did watch the movie. And I agree with my initial assessment, I was so bored. This was such a boring movie. JAZZA: I I couldn't disagree with you more. ROWAN: Ohhh, God. JAZZA: I loved it, I loved it so much. ROWAN: I've could have predicted that though. I feel like we've had, we've disagreed on movies before in this podcast. And I think it's just you enjoy trash. JAZZA: This isn't, no no-- ROWAN: Like, and not that that's not even meant to be me. Like, like, taking a dig at you. I'm like you genuinely do appreciate sort of like campy, trashy, like low budget stuff. I think more than I do. JAZZA: Yes. Yeah. No, I'm with you. That is my vibe. That is my my modus operandi. But also I will say, all the way through, I was just fascinated that a movie like this was out in 1970. And I was also just captivated by all of the women. Either Ingrid Pitt, really does carry this full movie, she was absolutely phenomenal throughout the whole thing. But then every single woman is just absolutely stunning. And I don't understand why they're hanging around with all of these mediocre men. I wanted it to just be the women living their cortical fantasy. And I was so sucked in to their beauty and like some of their sexy flirting. I was super into The Governess, and all of that shit. I genuinely was hooked to this movie. I I really enjoyed the ride, I thought it was great. I will say some of that is based on kind of like, oh, isn't this an interesting depiction of like, the end of the height of the Hammer Horror Movement, and of the type of movie that was out at the time and stuff like that. ROWAN: What a nerd. JAZZA: But I have a--I had a really nice time, I'd recommend it. ROWAN: Yeah, I also I guess it appreciated it on that more intellectual level of like, mmm, this is I was I was like, at the very least, there's stuff that we can say about it. In the same way as I did predict this is what was going to happen. That like when you do an experiment in science class, really, I just keep doing high school metaphors. And it's not even on purpose. And when you do an experiment in science class, and it goes horribly wrong, and all of your results are wrong. You're like, well, at least I have something to write in my evaluation, even if the results and the conclusion of the terrible. I'll have, I'll basically just be able to, like, absolutely destroyed myself by being like me from 10 minutes ago, when I did this experiment is ridiculous, and doesn't know what she was doing and absolute fool. Or here all the things she did wrong. JAZZA: And you're and you'll get really good marks for being reflective. ROWAN: Yeah, exactly. You really reflective. And I kind of feel like this is the vibe of like, well, I don't enjoy it. But there's a lot we can say about it. So I guess this is the section where we talk about a little bit more context specific around Queer Movies, lesbian vampires, they're a thing. So this is not, this very much was part of a tradition. Like you talked about Carmilla before. And this is a tradition that has very much been with us for a long time, for a number of reasons. So one, as we talked about before, the vampire genre ties in a lot to sex and sexuality. And it only makes sense that if you're going to talk about perversion and sexuality that lesbians come up, you know, it's a it's just how we do. So I think also the fact that there is a, there is a riskier a danger, and alert sexuality element of vampires. And so if you're going to pick a sexuality to titillate the assumed to be male audience. With a bit of taboo, with a bit of danger, with a lot of titties, the lesbians will do it for you. So this is very much yeah, old, old trope, which has continued on through the decades. And this was absolutely no exception and actually was like a very noted example of it that a lot of people will talk about. I think it was very interesting that, when you look at the Wikipedia article for this movie, it gives you, often Wikipedia articles will tell you like what the rotten score is with critics. JAZZA: Uhm. ROWAN: And the note that they've made of it being certified rotten. I looked at the citation, and it was from 2013. It is now absolutely not certified rotten, the critic score is 71. And the audience score is 60. So it kind of has gotten more critical clout as a cult classic, than sort of a good movie at the time getting good reviews. It's very much had basically the reaction that we sort of had to at of, there is something about the context of it and something about its sort of cult classic status, which has, I think, elevate it in in subsequent reviews. JAZZA: Is it, I'm sensing a mirroring of what we saw with Jennifer's Body-- ROWAN: Hmm. JAZZA: --a little bit. ROWAN: You are not wrong, you're absolutely not wrong. There is this idea of the as I kind of mentioned earlier, corrupting lesbian force, right? So you would often have not just in like supernatural ways in in more realistic dramas around these decades, especially within the Hays Code or around it, of the experienced, maybe older sexual lesbian, and the young innocent virgin who didn't really understand what was going on and couldn't be blamed and was sucked in but just needed to be kind of taken out of this woman's [59:23] and given to a nice good man and that would kind of cheer her like this very much is something that is a big, big part of the conceptualization people had of lesbians of what what that relationship looks like. And I think queer people in general was like, the predator, right? So you had a lot of in our history, we have a lot of stuff where, you know, queer people shouldn't be teachers because they shouldn't be around young people. Ridiculous, obviously. And then more recently, we have the sort of trans bathroom panic stuff around the idea that old trans people shouldn't be trusted with our children in bathrooms like just completely ridiculous. But absolutely ties into this idea of like the evil lesbian trope, which plays out so much, over over time, over over this genre. And if you're being interpreting it in maybe a little bit more of a generous way, or if you wanted to subvert it, then you might look at how becoming a vampire is sort of as a symbol of no longer being tied to sort of puritanical ideas of sex and sexuality. And it being a very freeing experience and that that kind of tying into queerness like, I definitely think there's room for that interpretation. In like more modern explorations of lesbian vampires. I'd be really interested to see stuff like that. But yeah, there's a 1936 film Dracula's Daughter. JAZZA: Yeah. ROWAN:
In the first of a new series where we ask guests, What Movie Made You Queer? Today Rowan is joined by creative producer, storyteller extraordinaire and all round deity, Gabe Hicks, AKA, @GabeJamesGames on Twitter. Find Us Online - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd About The Show Queer Movie Podcast is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we research and rate our way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to black & white classics, Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things gaaaaay on the silver screen. New episodes every other Thursday. Transcript ROWAN: Welcome to the Queer Movie Podcast, celebrating the best and worst of LGBTQ+ cinema, one glorious genre at a time. I'm Rowan Ellis, and welcome to one of our guest specials that we'll be releasing between our usual Queer Movie Club episodes. Today, we're joined by Gabe, who will be answering the question, "What movies made you queer?" I'm very excited to welcome creative producer and storyteller extraordinaire, Gabe Hicks, aka Gabe James Games. GABE: Hello! I'm happy to be here! I was talking to Rowan, I was like, "Yes, let me just talk about these things!" It's-- it's actually something that I have never really talked about, especially since more of my expression has been, like, more publicly recent, like this last year is when I really started openly sharing my identity and stuff. ROWAN: Amazing. I like that we're giving you the opportunity to do what I think a lot of people like to do, which is just talk excitedly about movies. I feel like it's a universal language. GABE: Absolutely. ROWAN: And I'm very glad to be part of it. So, this is going to be the first episode of this type of format that we're trying. GABE: Oh, my god. ROWAN: I know, very exciting. You are the debut. So, I would love to hear how many movies/sort of pieces of media/TV shows did you bring today for us? GABE: So, I brought four movies and then one piece of media. ROWAN: Amazing. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: Do you have an order? Do you-- Have you already planned out your ideal order for this or are you just gonna pick them out of a hat at random? GABE: I actually did plan in order. ROWAN: In which case, far from it. That sentence didn't make any sense. I was like... I was about to say -- GABE: Far be from it. ROWAN: -- far from it to be to me, to Gabe. GABE: Yup. ROWAN: AKA, what is your first choice, Gabe? GABE: Pirates of the Caribbean. ROWAN: Oh, okay. Well, if anyone has ever spoken to me in my entire life, they will know that I am a massive Elizabeth Swann apologist and also love to talk about -- GABE: Really? ROWAN: -- Pirates of the Caribbean. GABE: All right, that's fair. ROWAN: And I would love to hear your thoughts about it. And then obviously, cancel this podcast episode if we disagree on this very first movie so... GABE: Cool, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fine. ROWAN: You know, the friendship is hanging on this, Gabe. GABE: Good. Good. ROWAN: Please be-- be aware. GABE: The-- the appearance of Jack Sparrow to me was-- that was the moment when I was like, I don't know if I want to be with him or be him. Kind of column A, column B, like, why not both? Weird, bold, beautiful, strange, unapologetic, charming in the way that he was just weird, and just did it. And was surrounded by such a wild assortment of people. And then Calypso is one of the most, be like the actress who plays Calypso as well as the character. Some of the most beautiful people that I've really seen. So, the more characters they introduced–. And then-- then the later ones when spoiler alerts, you got, like, Barbosa's daughter. And just-- I was like, "Why is everyone so attractive?" I will say Orlando Bloom, like, I enjoyed him, but I can't separate him from Legolas. And Legolas was too much of a pretty boy for my taste, because it was-- it was, like, long flowing pity boy, I wanted like, weird, gritty, strange boy, which is why Jack Sparrow pretty much checked all the boxes. ROWAN: Yeah, well, in turn it wasn't really giving that. He was very sweet in his own way. It was really funny because I remember Pirates of the Caribbean was out at exactly the same time as Lord of the Rings. How do I know that? Because I -- GABE: Yup. ROWAN: -- fully remember having posters of both on my wall. And I did have posters of Orlando Bloom as both roles, which was really I think, just the last vestiges of my, like, supposed heterosexuality clinging to the walls of my bedroom. GABE: Yup, yup. ROWAN: I think that what you just said about I didn't know if I wanted to be– be them or, like, be with them? GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: What a mood. What a queer mood. I feel like that is something that most of us can relate to. This strange kind of like, there is something alluring about this and I'm not entirely sure. GABE: Yes. ROWAN: What? What element of this is working for me? GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: Were you like a pirate kid? Was that-- was that a thing that you're already obsessed with? Or was this kind of like a new-- new thing for you in those years? GABE: It was a new thing for me. And it became, like, a fixation. I was like, I want all of this. I wasn't a pirate kid until those movies came out. And then, I was wholeheartedly a pirate kid. I was like, sea shanties, sea monsters, and, like, the thing is, I couldn't swim. So, like, it was very interesting -- ROWAN: Amazing. GABE: -- that I was like all about, I think, but you know what, like, if I can't swim, maybe Jack would save me and if he didn't, maybe I deserved it. I don't know. But like, I would-- I would risk it. I would risk it for the biscuit. ROWAN: I just love-- Yeah, I was gonna ask, did you live near the sea? I was just imagining you on your own little boat and you're like, "Nope." GABE: Not at all. I lived in the woods, in the forest. And maybe that was part of why I loved it. I was terrified of boats. But like, I would, you know, if Jack Sparrow was like, "All right, Gabe. We're getting on a ship and we're sailing the sea." I'm like, "Say less. I-- wherever you need me. I will -- ROWAN: I am there. GABE: -- scrub the deck. I will fire the gun off swinging on a rope above the sea. And I might die but I'm gonna die happy. ROWAN: That's hilarious to me because obviously, I mean, I feel like it's not really a spoiler to say Jack Sparrow in those movies is not the most moral of peoples. GABE: No! ROWAN: So, I just love the idea that you're just like, "Whatever you say, Jack, I'm there." GABE: Yup. ROWAN: Like, it doesn't even. And he's like, "Oh, I don't have to convince?" You're like, "Jack, listen, I'm already on the boat. Like, it's fine." GABE: Yeah. You didn't, Jack-- you. I'm here. I get-- I'm basically committed to whatever happens next. ROWAN: Have you been to the new revamped Pirates of the Caribbean ride? GABE: Yes, I have. ROWAN: Have Jack in it. GABE: I was at Disney World in October, and, like, Pirates of the Caribbean was one of the things I explicitly wanted to do, and the animatronics are so good. It's actually very startling. ROWAN: It's-- it's really funny because obviously, you've got all of the old animatronics, which are, let's just say not as good. GABE: Yup. ROWAN: And it's-- and then just as one weirdly human, like, figure in them. GABE: Yup. ROWAN: Which I greatly enjoyed. So I, as I mentioned, Elizabeth Swann, I'm an Elizabeth Swann apologist. I basically just think that those movies, everyone I understand the allure of Jack Sparrow, and maybe it is the lesbian in me, Gabe. I'm not-- I-- I'm not lying, I might be biased, but I feel like, there's obviously he's such a memorable character. GABE: You're not biased, you're lesbiased. ROWAN: Yeah, lesbiased, that oh, you know what, I'm using that now. Never-- never will the word bias cross my lips anymore. I will be writing it in emails. I will explain nothing. GABE: Lesbias. Oh shit, that's funny. Damn. ROWAN: But they-- they you-- honestly, add comedian to the list of stuff you do, Gabe. GABE: Thank you. ROWAN: Because you honestly do everything and it was about time that you added another string to the– to the bow. GABE: That's true. ROWAN: Which I assume you can also shoot? You seem like the kind of person who would know how to shoot arrows. GABE: I have two bows and three crossbows. ROWAN: Of course you do. Of course you do. Yeah, that was not even a question. But yeah, Elizabeth Swann. The movies are just about her. The whole, like, Will especially. I love Will Turner. Like, he's a lovely character and everything, but all he does is get rescued by Jack or Elizabeth. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: And then just go around going, "Elizabeth. Elizabeth." GABE: That's true. ROWAN: Like, the entire time. That's his entire role. And like, I love that for him. GABE: Okay, so I'm-- I'm gonna say, I feel like the reason that I don't like Elizabeth, is because they intentionally made her an ass, and they didn't have to. They could have made her way more of an endearing figure that was just a powerful woman. And they instead tried to-- it's like, they were, like, trying to pretend that they were committing to a damsel in distress. But then, it's like, but no, she's like, powerful, but I'm like, why did you make her powerful, and then, like, snarky. ROWAN: Okay, but here's the thing, Gabe. GABE: Yes. ROWAN: Have you? Have you heard of the concept of a mean lesbian? GABE: No, because lesbians aren't usually mean to me. ROWAN: I mean, to your face, Gabe, but no, the-- yeah, there's a sort of mean lesbian vibe meme kind of-- kind of thing going around. And maybe in my head, I'm like, "Maybe she just fits into that." I just think she's-- My-- my full, like, biggest complaint with that series is that it ended with Elizabeth just being like, "I guess I'll never go on the sea again. See you-- see you seven years, Will." GABE: God! ROWAN: Like, what? GABE: The thing is-- the thing that bothered me was I really wanted to like her character. I really want and I liked the concept of her character. I liked the actress. I felt like they copped out when they were writing her-- writing her story. It's like, we're going to make her a side character. And then we're going to make her a main character, and then they basically sidelined her again, and I'm like, "Pick one. Pick one and then make her, like, give her the story that she deserves. Instead of, like, pretending that she's-- They acted like she was a half-replacement for Jack when she's her own powerful individual character." ROWAN: Again, I must say to you, Gabe, have you considered the outfit she wears in the Singapore sequence? GABE: I didn't say she wasn't hot. She-- she can-- Look, if Will is on the sea, I will happily be her, like, land man. I don't-- Look, anything that she wants. I look like Davy Jones, Jack Sparrow, and Calypso had a triangle baby. Like, I'll hook her up. That's fine, but I'm just --. ROWAN: She'd be into that. GABE: Probably. I'm just-- I'm just mad they didn't give me the Elizabeth Swann that should have gotten the attention she deserved. It's like they wanted to give us a powerful femme character and they're like, "But... No, nevermind. Everybody, nevermind." ROWAN: Listen, when I finally make my video essay about how underappreciated Elizabeth Swann is, truly the mark of success will be moving the dial on your dislike of this character even slightly, that's going to be my aim for it. But I really enjoy the fact that both of us have parts the Caribbean as one of our queer awakening sort of movies. I love that that was the one that you started with. Not even planned, listeners at home, that was just the power of-- the power -- GABE: Friendship. ROWAN: -- of Disney, I guess. The power of Disney's IP. They knew what they were doing. I just at any time, assume that they're making another part of the Caribbean movie. I feel like the world is always in a state of having had one announced. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: The watching one, or, like, waiting for the next one to be announced. I feel like it's never gonna go. I thought that, like, Jungle Cruise was them trying to be like, I remember that. Remember that franchise we did about a ride? And I don't-- I don't quite know if it's got the-- got the chops. GABE: Yeah. You're probably right. ROWAN: Sweet, shall we, in that case, move from the high seas, I assume. GABE: Yes. ROWAN: Although I don't know, maybe every single movie that you're about to mention is pirate related. GABE: No, no, but that's fair. ROWAN: To your second choice. GABE: We're going to move from the sea of water to the sea of sand. ROWAN: Ooh. GABE: We're gonna talk a little bit about Aladdin. ROWAN: I already as soon as you said sand, I was like, "Well, there could only be one option here." GABE: Picking Aladdin or Jasmine is impossible. They are. Don't-- Don't at me. I don't care. Be- So, okay, they were both beautiful people. ROWAN: Inside and out. GABE: Yeah, like, oh, but they were both incredibly charming, and it was nice seeing a relationship that they had close relationships with so many different types of people. And the way that they expressed it or the way that they enjoyed it, it wasn't, like, tainted unless the people were distinctly evil and bad. Like, Jasmine's relationship with her dad was genuinely, like, for the-- for the most part healthy, until we look at, like, the weird underlying tones. But like, at face value, it was good. Seeing Aladdin, this man, get into a situation, come out with a whole bunch of possibility for wealth, glory, and all of that. And then, just take a route of, like, personal happiness. That actually is what, like, enticed me so much because, like, that portrayal of a man is not something that I felt, like, I got a lot of younger, and it made me admire his character so much more like, "Yes. Like, that's-- that's the kind of person that I want to see and I would want to be with." ROWAN: Amazing. I-- yeah, fully agree on that. I feel like I need to rewatch Aladdin. I think I don't know what shit since I was a lot younger, but I found the entire thing entirely charming as a child. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: Also, absolutely banging soundtrack obviously. GABE: Yes. ROWAN: Cannot be ignored. GABE: [12:16] scoundrel. ROWAN: How do you feel about the live action remake? Is that something you've dipped your toes into? GABE: I actually haven't seen it. I'm not sure if it'll give me the same, the same levels of excitement. Have you seen it? ROWAN: I have. It was very forgettable. I have a very good friend who would probably, like, lock me in the darkest deepest dungeon for saying this because she was very into the-- to Aladdin in every single way, shape, or form. But I was, like, very forgettable. Prince Ali the sequence that was that song was an absolute bop. GABE: Ooh yeah. ROWAN: But it wasn't necessary. They tried to add a little bit of, like, Jasmine as a feminist. And I was like, "I... I don't know if that needed to be added, but I guess they did that with they kind of keep trying to do that in the remakes." GABE: Yes. ROWAN: Here's a very important question for you. Have you seen King of Thieves? GABE: Yes. ROWAN: How do you feel about Aladdin's hot dad? GABE: Yes. ROWAN: Where does he rank on your Aladdin spectrum? GABE: Ooh. Okay, okay. So, above Aladdin. ROWAN: Okay. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: Okay. Also agreed. I'm like, is he my exception? GABE: Aladdin is pretty, but the dad is handsome. ROWAN: You are not wrong. Listen, I am a lesbian. I am only attracted to women. And yet, if the cartoon man, Aladdin's dad whose name I have forgotten, Cassim, I think. GABE: Yup. ROWAN: Was to step out of the television after I had had a heart attack that the fact that a cartoon man was standing before me. GABE: Yes. ROWAN: And that such things were possible. GABE: Yes. ROWAN: I would take them on a date so... GABE: That's valid. Honestly, it would probably be an amazing date, the man would show you things that you've never seen before. And we can interpret that in however we would like to, but, like, those, there are plenty of things that people love to grab onto on other people. And those gray strips on the side of his head are basically just guidance. ROWAN: Aladdin, Aladdin would take me on a date on a magic carpet. And yeah, I still believe that a date with Cassim would be an even more wondrous adventure. GABE: Absolutely. ROWAN: For many reasons. GABE: Absolutely. ROWAN: I just-- I love how it was like, "Here's my hot take, Rowan." And I was like, "Cool. I take your hot take and I raise you a hot dad." Ah, it's all coming together. GABE: Look, I am a Dream Daddy cosplayer. I-- If you-- if you look at, like, a third of the cosplays I've done there have been a lot of dads. Dream daddy is the bi dad, which obviously has shaped a lot of me. Dragon Prince has the -- ROWAN: Oh my god. GABE: -- yeah has the dad. And I guess something-- another-- another good example is, like, one thing to think about this but She-Ra, the dad from She-Ra, Bow's-- Bow has two dads. ROWAN: Yes. Oh my gosh. GABE: And I've cosplayed as one of the dads from She-Ra just because he's, like, the beautiful man with long dreads and everything. And then he's got his gorgeous husband that also looks like a Dream Daddy character. I've cosplayed as a straight appearing dad, I've cosplayed as a bi dad. And I've cosplayed as a gay dad now. ROWAN: You-- you-- you've got the, like, full bingo card of dads. GABE: Yes. Basically. It's, it's -- ROWAN: That's everything. GABE: That's exactly right. ROWAN: I'm interested to know, like, when-- when we're talking about these, with these always-- these pieces of media, were these always things that you were exploring, like, at the age when you first watched them? Was it something that was, like, pinging in the back of your mind whether or not you kind of realized what it meant? Or is this stuff where you were, like, actually, it was looking back on them and when I was older, that made me kind of realize what was going on there? GABE: I think it was more like looking back on it when I was older, because it-- I've never, like, for... for a while I didn't really care about having a word for it. And even-- even now, like, that's-- that's a great reason that, like, queer is a great overarching term. Because I don't-- I don't. It varies depending on the day. And I don't always know where the hell I fall in the spectrum. And I realized very quickly that, like, the reason I kept trying to find a term for it was because other people wanted a term from me for it. And after I realized that I was like, "Actually, who cares?" Because it's not up to them to determine this. It's just up to me, if these three men are attractive to me, and, like, the other 300 in this situation aren't, I don't have to define in one way or another or whatever way because there's-- sometimes there are people that it's like just the emotional attraction to them. Sometimes it's just the physical attraction. Sometimes it's so situational that I was like, when I was looking back at it, I was like, "Oh, you know what, like, I don't-- I don't know where it falls, but if it wasn't just this, and it wasn't just that, so let's put it in the umbrella." ROWAN: Yeah, absolutely. So, if you've been enjoying the podcast so far, or to be honest, even if you haven't, you should definitely check out some of the other shows that are part of the Multitude collective. The one that I'm going to talk about specifically today is Horse. So, quick confession. I, in my misspent youth, was in fact, not the femme lesbian that you see before you, but a very confused little middle school jock. And so, I have, in my real life, left the world of sports behind, but in my podcast life, continue to be intrigued. And so, for that very dark and shameful reason, I have been listening to the podcast Horse recently. So, it's essentially a podcast that talks about some of the most ridiculous stories, the drama, the highs and lows, the biggest and baddest of the world of basketball. Now, I should say, I never played basketball, and I have no intention to but you don't have to be a superfan to appreciate this podcast. You can be someone who has literally never cared about sports before, and the comedic stylings of your hosts Adam Mamawala and Mike Schubert will, I'm sure, appeal to you. This isn't about the scores of the latest games. It is about the unbelievable history and culture of basketball, whether it's a shot-by-shot breakdown of Get your head in the Game from High School Musical, absolutely iconic. Or a thorough discussion of the best and worst food at NBA arenas, the Horse boys have got you covered. New episodes released every other Monday, just search Horse in your podcast app, or check out horsehoops.com. Horse, because basketball is more than what happens on the court. Quick question, dear listener, do you use the internet? Because if the answer is yes, then today's sponsor is for you. Particularly, if you, like me, have an embarrassingly large amount of tabs open on your browser at any one time. I am talking of course about Tab for a Cause, a browser extension that lets you raise money for charity, while just doing your thing online. Basically, how it works is whenever you open a new tab, you will see two things, a beautiful photo and a small ad. And then, part of that ad money goes towards a charity of your choice. It really is as simple as that. Every time you open up a tab, you no longer have to feel guilty about the 103 other ones that are open in a different window behind the one that you're currently using. You can just say, "Hey, I'm doing it for charity, so it's fine." So, if that sounds up your street then you can join Team Queer Movie Podcast by signing up at tabforcause.org/queermovie. I would love to hear about mysterious characters/movies/things you have brought to the table: Number three. GABE: So, this is a weird one. ROWAN: This. I love it. Sandwiched right in the middle, just to get-- getting a bit weird by number-- number three GABE: James Cameron's Avatar. ROWAN: Okay, I can only assume considering, I don't know how many people know this out there. I don't know how many people at Disney World aficionados, like ourselves, but they have made an entire avatar land Pandora. GABE: I know, Rowan. ROWAN: In the animal kingdom. I can only assume because that movie made a lot of money and zero cultural impact other than, I guess, to people like you. So, I can only assume that you were solely responsible for that becoming a thing. GABE: [20:37]. ROWAN: Oh, my God. GABE: I have-- There is a PDF when that movie came out of the language that I spent, like, six months memorizing. A huge chunk of it. ROWAN: I love this so much. GABE: I have so many pictures taken at Pandora from Disney World. I was speaking the language to some of, like, the employee cast members. And they looked at me with so much concern and confusion in their eyes because none of them knew what the hell I was saying. ROWAN: They had no clue. GABE: And those-- those gigantic blue people that were, like, beautiful trees that I just wanted to climb. Like, I didn't-- I didn't care about gender or anything. I just wanted them to hold me. Like, just-- just to hold me, cradle me, kiss my forehead. Yes, please. Thank you. ROWAN: Amazing. GABE: I got in there. They were all beautiful. It-- the-- the markings, the tattoos, the, like, 10-foot, 11-foot. 12-foot tall. It's just-- I-- I never felt the analogy, "I want to climb someone like a tree," until that movie. And then I was like, "I get it." ROWAN: I feel like, okay, so when I've been at Disney World, I've not really been someone who is super into, like, meeting characters. I have some friends I've gone with who are really into it. And I'm, like, really happy being the person who takes pictures and hops them up and everything. But when I went to the, like, Princess bit, I met Tiana. GABE: Hmm. ROWAN: There was just something about this, like, beautiful woman talking to me about food because that's obviously really, like, you know, a good talking point for Tiana's character who owns a restaurant. GABE: Yes. ROWAN: Where she just be asking me, like, what my favorite, like, what food was, like, a popular where I was from and talking about her restaurant and stuff. And my heart was, like, a little bit of a flutter. I imagine that your-- you will reach your final form when you go to Pandora and they have worked out how to do the Na'vi as character as, like, walking around characters. I feel like at that point, you will, like, ascend. GABE: Yeah. Like, that-- that quiet, "yeah," is so strong. It-- like, it's-- it's so weird to think about it. But like, one of the things that made me realize was, like, it was-- it was that moment of, like, they're all beautiful. Like, they're all-- they're all gorgeous. I don't-- I don't care what they have. I don't care who they are. They're all beautiful, man, woman, non-binary. Like, whoever they are, wherever they identify, I was like, "They're all hot." And that was when I was like, "Yeah, okay, this makes sense. This checks out." ROWAN: I can't say I've ever been specifically attracted to those aliens, but I -- GABE: We can fix that. ROWAN: -- fully with maybe I-- maybe I haven't watched avatar. GABE: i have plenty of cosplaying friends ROWAN: Seen enough. Oh, no. Yeah, no, that's the danger. GABE: I'm gonna-- I'm gonna send you some links. ROWAN: I know you are. That's-- I have zero doubt that that's going to happen. I'm like, waiting. I'm like, maybe it's gonna ping right now. Maybe that's -- GABE: Oh, it absolutely-- It will. ROWAN: Oh. GABE: I'm finding it. ROWAN: Excellent. I love the how sometimes you have very what people consider normal. Not you personally, although obviously you personally but just you one in general, will have these kind of moments of like, "Oh my goodness," about, you know, these human beings, you know, acting. And then sometimes it's like, "Oh, I like this cartoon of a human.," and then something. Sometimes it's just like, "I like this concept. I like this vibe." GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: I feel like just this whole thing they've got going on is a real great. In that case, I mean, how are you feeling about the fact that they're apparently making, like, four new movies in this franchise? GABE: I'm ready. I'm ready. ROWAN: Have you-- Have you already, like, committed to a cosplay for it? Are you like-- GABE: 100%. I've had a Na'vi bodysuit since I was about 18. But now, I know how to do makeup so... ROWAN: It's gonna look even better. GABE: Oh, yeah. Yeah. ROWAN: I'm so ready for that. And you've got the bows as well. Like, it's all coming together. GABE: You're absolutely right. I'm trying-- I'm trying to be everybody's problem. ROWAN: So, I mean, you truly are everyone's problem. To be fair, you already. People, it's really funny because I knew you from D&D stuff. GABE: Yup. ROWAN: Like, that's how I first came across you. And it wasn't until you, congratulations, by the way, we're being the sort of storyteller, which I mentioned 20. GABE: Thank you. ROWAN: That I realized that, like, everyone was watching -- GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: -- this trailer, this announcement. And every single person has a different reference for, like, where they knew you from. And a lot of people just know you as, like, the thirst trap person. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: Like, the person who just does, like, thirst trap cosplays. GABE: Yeah, it's really funny to me. There's-- there's people who knew me, there's people who know me from Tumblr as the Fae dad or the Unicorn man. There's some people who know me from TikTok. Some people know me from Tiktok as, like, the hot vampire guy. Some people know me from my house, some people know me from my Dream Daddy cosplays. Yes, some people just know me as, like, the thirst trap dude from Twitter and Instagram. It's so many different places. That's not even counting, like, the game design stuff. So, it's-- it's-- I have gotten some messages about being some people's bi awakenings, like, over this past year. ROWAN: Amazing. I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. GABE: I'm just like, "Good. Learn about yourself." ROWAN: I mean, I obviously take great pride in having stumbled across you for your intellect and -- GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: -- genuine, you know, brain but I, you know, we come for the brain, we stick around for the thirst trap. So, that's just how -- GABE: Come for the brains, stay for the butt. ROWAN: -- how it works. GABE: I send you some things on Twitter. I just want you to know that. ROWAN: There we go. Aren't you guys jealous listening to this. There's just-- it's just me essentially getting a load of messages that you can't see from Gabe this whole time. GABE: Good. ROWAN: I would love to hear about your fourth thing that you have bought for me. GABE: Hell yes. That is The Wild Wild West movie with Will Smith. ROWAN: Amazing. Amazing. We've really truly had a journey today. We were at the high seas, we are in the desert, we've gone to space. GABE: Yep. ROWAN: We're back in-- we're back I guess in the desert but a different desert. GABE: Basically. ROWAN: So, I have a confession to make. GABE: You've never seen it? ROWAN: I have not seen this movie. GABE: You will. ROWAN: It's been on my watch list for so long. GABE: I got you. ROWAN: Here's, okay, here's my – someone who's never watched it – impression of what I assume it's about because my, I'm going to tell you right now. And I cannot believe that this confession is coming out of me. My closest sort of brush with this movie was that in my extremely white high school at the age of 12, during a dance production, I was not sorted into this group because there were two groups of, like, the 12 and 13-year-olds, it was a different group. But they did a dance to the theme song of this movie. GABE: Yes! ROWAN: And it was the most, like, 12, 13-year-olds who can't really dance very well. Like, everything was very much on beat. There was nothing, like, not beat, it was like the slow bit of the beat as well. Like, very steady, very, like, bad like, finger gun type dance moves. I really wish I had a recording of it because I would-- that would be the thing that I sent you in return. GABE: I'm incredibly happy about this. ROWAN: And that's truly as close as I've gotten to this movie and I'm not gonna lie to you, Gabe, that was not in fact part of my gay awakening in any way shape, or form, even at the time. GABE: Sure. ROWAN: So, I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity to maybe discover-- discover this later on. In a way that isn't just a load of bad dancing. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: Is it like-- the impression I get of it is that it is Wild West but there is some kind of like steampunk-y vibe to it. There's, like, some-- something in it that's a little bit -- GABE: Absolutely. ROWAN: -- fun and fun and funky. Please tell me/the listeners at home. What is it? GABE: I, look, that movie starts with Will Smith shirtless in a water tower. I, god! ROWAN: Say no more, Gabe. GABE: Its-- it. ROWAN: Please say more. GABE: This-- this man in hot pants all over this hot damn movie, I have not seen a man like that in leather that much unless it was at a very specifically designated party. So, this movie was just making some dreams come true. Watching him spin a pistol, no-- no double entendre intended, it-- it was, like, maybe I do like the Wild West more than I thought. ROWAN: I was a pirate. I was a pirate kid, but now I-- am I a cowboy kid? GABE: You look. ROWAN: Damn. It's so confusing. GABE: Cowboys ride. ROWAN: Oh my gosh. I mean, was there anything to it? Other than the hot, hot bod of Will Smith? Was there-- was there anything else or? GABE: I mean, it was decent. ROWAN: I'm not gonna lie to you, Gabe. You really-- I was-- I was hoping you're gonna sell it to me. I don't know if Will Smith's hot can necessarily take me through into the story, but I do appreciate. GABE: Do you like Sofia Vergara? Do you like Sofia Vergara? ROWAN: Oh, see now-- now it's getting a little bit more interesting. GABE: So, I'm-- excuse me, not Sophia Vergara. It was Salma Hayek. ROWAN: Oh, you know what? Equally as an onboard. GABE: She is in it. She-- she wears a bodice. I think she keeps, like, a gun underneath, like, her left thigh or, like, in her right boob. ROWAN: I love-- I love weapons where there aren't meant to be weapons, you know, weapons where you're like, "Oh, that was a little surprise. Okay, this is not where I thought you were gonna be." GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: This is-- maybe not safe, but we'll take it. GABE: Yeah, no, she is-- she is in it. She is hot as hell and she makes it work. ROWAN: I love that. I will say-- it's, I mean, speaking of weapons that just don't really seem safe. I truly could spend the rest of my life contemplating that scene in Wonder Woman where she has a sword just down her back. Yeah, I fully in my head have, like, replayed that Wonder Woman scene where she takes a sword, like, out of her own spine. And I'm like, "No, in no point does this make logical sense, but the vibes are there. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: That's all I really care about. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: I'll take it. In terms of these, like, the order that you've put these in, was this the order of– of, like, age when this came up for you? Or was this just, do you have a sense of which one was first? Like, which one was kind of the-- or is it just a big soup pack? GABE: It was– it was definitely Wild Wild West was-- was first. Pirates of the Caribbean, then, like, more of like, when I watched Aladdin, I was like, not much older, but still old enough to, like, kind of have a better gauge of it. And then, Avatar was probably the most recent of, like, these movies. ROWAN: Mhmm. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: I find myself, and I know that Jazza as well, like, we're very similar ages, find ourselves really looking-- when we are looking back at this media that we connected with, or that we were interested in, it very much is like, none of this was explicitly gay. Like, we're not looking back at something and being like, "Oh, I saw this character come out as gay. And then I was like, Oh, that might be me." It was more like, "Hmm, something's going on here, and it wasn't until later that that stuff was kind of available to us. We knew about it. And like, I very specifically, remember, like, the only things that talked about being gay were things that were probably not appropriate for children to be watching. No, because there were things that were like Queer as Folk stuff like that. And I definitely feel like I watched those things kind of ironically, because I think a lot of people probably think that keeping-- keeping gay people out of media was, like, helping children. And I'm like, "Well, I fully was exposed to non-- non sort of child friendly gay media beforehand, because there was no alternative." And so, I'm kind of wondering, like, where on that kind of timeline, you are at? Like, did you ever feel like there was any, like, explicitly queer media when you were growing up? Was that something that you were able to seek out? Or that you're able to find? Or was it very much still, like, "No, I was waiting until I was an adult before that stuff started to sort of appear for me." GABE: I think I never-- actually I never really, like, sought it out. Because I had just-- I had just interpreted it to fit however I was feeling. And there-- because there is-- there's, like, a lack when people will-- if people don't explicitly say it. And there's-- there's a whole different experience when it's like, a real confirmation. But then I hit a point, I don't know when it was, when I was like, I had moments where I liked it when it wasn't fully clear, because then it could mean whatever I wanted it to mean to me. ROWAN: Yeah. Yeah. GABE: And we definitely need more of a representation where it's-- it's so blunt and distinct. Like, like, Shriek Week. Like, Shriek Week is queer as hell. It's very clear. Many of the characters are non-binary, all of the characters have varied sexualities that, like, I had notes on. And it just only mattered if it came up in game for, like, the people to romance. Some of the people have been seeking out gay, poly, general queer relationships. And it was-- it was so intentional, because it was so lacking in a lot of the games that I played. But I also-- I play a character on a show [33:30], and he's bi. And it's just never come up because no one's asked. So, I've been-- I've been trying to leave and trying to find more things that-- that I can interpret however I wanted to or however it, like, could it be meaningful to me. ROWAN: Yeah, I'm kind of interested to know from you, like, with queer stuff, I guess it's easier to interpret, whereas -- GABE: Yes. ROWAN: -- if we're talking about you being, like, a black queer person, -- GABE: Yup. ROWAN: -- it's harder to, like, interpret. And as you're talking about, like, very much, I guess, like Avatar style or non-human entities that you can decide to code as black. GABE: Yes. ROWAN: Like, it's more difficult to be like, "Oh, I'm just gonna read this white person as black." So, did you find that it was easier for you to kind of, like, seek out media where you felt represented as a black person, and then kind of see the queerness within that rather than I guess, vice versa? GABE: Absolutely. God, it's a weird thing to think about, but I've realized, like, even in a person representation, I am a very public facing black queer person. And it's why I try so hard to present myself in a way that also, like, is really, like, relatable. Like, I don't-- I don't want to create or facilitate parasocial relationships, but I do want people to be able to see me as a person of color, queer person who's just doing the thing and is also just a person. I don't-- I don't want them to see me as an unachievable representation for themselves, trying to find those notions in media, because I want-- I want notions in media where it's a big deal. And I also want notions in Media where it's just normal. I like when people are excited to see me as that representation. And I also like when people see me as a normal part of that representation, if that makes sense. ROWAN: Yeah. GABE: And that's-- that's part of why it's so hard. Like, I feel like it's so hard to find it in Media because we get moments where it's so rare to see that straight and distinct representation in a blunt way, that it's always something we have to be loud about. Because it's so minute and miniscule in its availability. And it's, yeah, it's hard. ROWAN: Yeah, kind of like a drop in the ocean that you kind of have to be like, "Hello, I'm here," I guess for the people who need to see it. GABE: Yes. ROWAN: It's so easy to miss if you don't know exactly where to look at the internet/creative endeavors, movies, books, it's like a big place out there in trying to find. I am really lucky that I, like, know a lot about queer media. Like, obviously, that's kind of something for me that I could, if someone asked me to, like, give them recommendations, like, I pretty much off the top of my head will be able to give them stuff. GABE: Yes. ROWAN: But when you're-- when I speak to people who are, like, queer themselves, and actually really want to know about queer media, a lot of them have, like, never heard of half of this stuff, because it is that question about, yeah, where would I go to-- to seek it out. And I think that when you-- you find one person on, like, Tumblr, or Instagram or TikTok or-- or Twitter to follow, you sort of end up down a rabbit hole of finding a ton of other people, but you kind of need to-- there needs to be a break in that algorithm to allow you to find those people. And sometimes, I mean, obviously, you're on-- you're on TikTok and-- and there have been a lot of discussions about the way that TikTok kind of pushes white creators to the front. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: Pushes, like, certain content creators to the front. And that's, you know, been something there have been protests about. And so, it's that, I guess I understand the idea of being blatant with it and being very open-- open with it if you're willing to be because it is something that it's difficult to-- to find sometimes. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: Even for people who are really excited to see it, because it reflects who they are. GABE: So-- so this-- so this actually kind of relates, like, the last thing that I was mentioning. ROWAN: Oh my God, look at us segueing in. GABE: Exactly. And a lot of one of it I like, in some ways, anime, because anime has definitely become better with more queer representation. And making it be, like, more clear and more forward facing even though a lot of things are still very reserved. But anime also can have more feminine or femme representations of men, which I definitely think helps lead into queer representation. But it's also a conflict, because one of the things that is so terrible with anime and manga, that a lot of the fan base, like, drives me up the wall is I really get upset with fetishization of, like, gay or like bi men in relationships and these things by fan bases, because it's never just a thing that happens. It's-- it's more that, like, no, these characters have to be gay because they're friends. I don't feel like I get to enjoy meaningful, gay or bi men relationships in a lot of media in general, because it ends up being, like, fetishized. Especially by some queer people in general, or not even necessarily queer people, like, just femme people are, like, Well, look-- look at these two men who have to love each other." And especially as people who are not men, I really get annoyed when I see Media or fans try to make that happen. Or it's like, it's-- it's like men cannot be together. Like, it's-- like, it's a calm, normal thing that we can enjoy or appreciate. ROWAN: You mean, like, being likd, to queer characters can't be friends, or like... GABE: Yes, yeah, like to -- ROWAN: Any characters can't be– just be friends. GABE: Two queer characters can't be friends. And it's especially if it's men. ROWAN: I think about this a lot that actually, you know, these like tests like the Bechdel test, stuff like that. And there's a lot of debate around like, whether they're useful or what they actually show, and all this kind of stuff. And I think, like, at the heart of it, it's about if you only have a very small amount of representation of a particular group, you can only show a certain amount of story of experiences. And as soon as you open that up to, like, multiple people with that identity, it leaves so much more space -- GABE: Yes. ROWAN: -- to have loads of different ones of these experiences, which is why I really, really have enjoyed media where it's like, "Hey, let's explore loads of different people with this identity." GABE: Exactly. ROWAN: Whether that is, like, on the queer side, you've obviously got things like cucumber banana tofu, which if you're not from the UK, I don't know if you-- if that's, like, made its way across the pond. GABE: No, it just sounded very funny and it made me go. ROWAN: Oh, yeah, it is. It's very much on purpose, so it was three different shows. So, cucumber and banana were, like, television shows. And then, tofu was, like, an online show. And it was from Russell T. Davies, who is like the absolute OG fucking goat of queer TV. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: So, he was the guy who, like, originally created Queer as Folk, and then went on, he's done Years and Years. He did It's a Sin, kind of basically, he was the first person to put queer characters on children's TV in the UK. GABE: Yes. ROWAN: Doctor Who. GABE: That's awesome. ROWAN: Like, he-- he created Jack Jack Harkness. Like, he's just-- he's just, like, an amazing person. GABE: I love that character so much. ROWAN: I adore Russell T. Davies, and like, he has done so much. And he's had a really awful time of it, he lost his partner and kind of had to be a carer for his partner for a while, and then tragically lost him. And so, he kind of came out of that, kind of using the experience and using the pain after having this kind of time to mourn, to-- to write it, to send, to create. It's to send and put it out there, and I feel like he's just got more and more stuff to do, but hit a lot of his stuff. It kind of ends up being, here's a whole group of people who are queer. GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: What are they going to do about it? I know that the film Pride, one of my favorite films of all time, which we just did a movie club episode about. And one of its biggest strengths is that it has this whole, like, range of queer voices that are outspoken, that are more conservative, that are newly out, that have been out for years, that are older, that are younger. Like, and that allows you to have these kinds of disagreements or, especially when you look at audiences from outside of that identity looking in, you don't ever have them looking in and being like, "Look, this gay character said this, or I guess, this black character, this disabled character. Like, they said this, or they think this or they do this and therefore kind of using it," because I don't want-- I never want, you know, marginalized creators to feel self-censored by what people -- GABE: Yes. ROWAN: -- outside of their identity might take from what they want to discuss, especially when we're talking about, like, intra community issues. So, things that are, like, actual issues within that community, that it's, like, "Hey, so like, obviously, negative stereotypes are bad. But sometimes people do fit those stereotypes and we maybe need to talk about it." GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: So, yeah, I really-- I-- I totally get what you mean around those kind of the idea of if you've got these characters, and they have to fit into a particular box, they have to, like, be romantically linked if they're gay, which I think also does, I don't know if you've experienced this, but I feel like it often kind of trickles out into real life, this kind of assumption of like -- GABE: Oh yeah. ROWAN: -- oh my God, I know a gay person, do you want to date them? GABE: Yup. ROWAN: My sister's actually a lesbian, you should get married. And you're like, "I don't know if that's--" GABE: No, that's-- that's not how that works. I don't know this person. It's-- that has happened to me in real life. I was-- I was hanging out with a friend of mine that's gay. And someone asked, like, "Have you guys ever kissed before?" I'm like, "No." ROWAN: Why would you say that? GABE: Why? We-- we've known each other for, like, three years. We're very good friends. We're not attracted to each other. ROWAN: What is this? I do think that my-- I was gonna say you could just say that to-- to every straight person in your life. Just every time you see them, they just comment, everyone, you go partially like, "You can make-- you kiss them. You kiss them. God, I just thought." GABE: No, but I wish. ROWAN: I just thought-- they would be Oh, they also. I mean, I feel like "Are the straight people. okay?" is my favorite internet meme, because, like, the whole conversation about, like, "Can men and women be friends?" I'm like, "What's wrong with you, people?" GABE: God, I-- Litter-- Okay. I literally was having a conversation with someone in a bar, and then the person left. It was-- it was-- and it was-- it was a woman. And the person left, and then my friends were like, "Gabe, why didn't you ask for her number?" I don't. I don't know her. ROWAN: We were just having a chat, you guys. GABE: Yeah, we were having a great conversation. She graduated Nursing School. Don't be weird about this. ROWAN: Oh my gosh. I would love to know your-- do we-- how-- what number are we on? Are we on number four, number five? I can't remember how many we still have left to go. GABE: Well, that was-- that was five because I -- ROWAN: That was five, loved it. GABE: -- like, anime in general, so that was -- ROWAN: Amazing. GABE: -- that was five. But we could-- we could do a quick bonus. ROWAN: Oh my god. Yes. Let's do a bonus . GABE: Acane. Like, arcane recently. ROWAN: Oh, okay. Okay. GABE: The Lesbian representation in Arcane, that's not subtle. It's not just for interpretation. It's clear, even confirmed by, like, designers on Twitter. It's clear and gorgeous. I love it. ROWAN: I love that. I love that we've got, like, a new entry, I guess. Something that's more-- that's more recent for you. I mean, do you-- I think that's really-- that is really interesting. You've talked at the beginning about this journey of, like, being openly queer, and specifically, I guess to an audience or online being more of a recent thing. Do you feel like you have settled enough into, like, your identity or who you are that it feels like a solid thing that when you are encountering new media, it's not necessarily showing you anything new about yourself, or do you think you're still, and I don't mean still, like, catch up Gabe because I don't think there's necessarily an end to that. A lot of people will, like, continue discovering new things about themselves. And it's not, like, a bad thing. But I'm kind of wondering where you are in that process, I guess. GABE: It's been a whole lot better, especially recently, because even with queer media, also, a lot of it is white queer media. So, there's like, a weird middle ground of, like, "Do I belong? Or do I not belong?" Because the-- the experience can be different, even if it's not substantially different, if it's still different. There's queer media of what you see is two white people that are gay or bi or two white lesbians. And it is excited, and cheered for, and celebrated, but queer media with two people of color, or a person of color with another queer person that is white and media is so much fewer and far between. And it's-- it's definitely that, like, like, She-Ra is a great example, because you have the two gay dads. But I would, like, anyone that's listening, I challenge you to try to think of how much queer media you can think of where there is two queer people of color that are represented in that queer media, and it's hard to find it. One of the queer movies that I loved recently, well, it had two queer characters, The Old Guard, that's it. Yeah, I loved that movie. And I loved-- I loved the-- the queer media representation, because it... it was just right, it was just good. It was just fun. It just felt right. There was that whole extra layer of, like, they've been together for years, and years, and years and years. And were still incredibly close. And so, as we see more of the diversity and representation in it, I do start to see more of myself in it. And it's slow, I see a lot more of it in, like, indie projects, or like games or things like that. Like, individual novels and such, will have way wider visual cast. Or even-- even, like, tabletop shows. Like, they'll-- they'll have a bunch of the queer relationships with people of all shapes and colors and sizes. And I'm a very fortunate person that, like, I am incredibly fit without really have to-- having to try to be, but I don't think we also get, like, very much great representation of fat queer relationships at all. And it's-- it's something that I think of not even just for myself, but like, I've plenty of fat queer friends, who also fully acknowledge and want people to, like, understand that being fat isn't a bad thing. But when you are fat, and queer, people look at you differently, are treated differently. And because of that, the media representation is so few and far in between, and that sucks. ROWAN: Yeah. GABE: I've had a better experience with media representation, in a sad way, because I've stopped looking to mainstream media to give me that. ROWAN: Absolutely. GABE: Because like I-- I don't have high expectations for what they will do to represent these things. Because oftentimes, the people who are in those positions to do it are not a representation of us, or you, or me. But the people who are, are putting these things out there. And then, we give them a chance to challenge and not necessarily compete, but maybe, like, almost meet those moments, and meet those representations and meet that excitement. ROWAN: Absolutely. I think that there's some really interesting, I guess, there's it's kind of that double-edged sword thing of when you have people who are being given the opportunities, you might end up having something that's more mainstream, but you most likely will have a lack of the people who are being represented in the actual creative team. GABE: Yes. ROWAN: And then you've got things that are really indie that maybe don't have a strong release that you can't really stream easily in different places. And those are the ones that have a really kind of unique voice to them, have a really authentic voice, but maybe don't have a strong budget. Like, didn't have, like, particularly good quality in a lot of-- in a lot of cases. Like, had a lot of heart to them, which is like very much the story of, like, -- GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: -- queer cinema in general. Just because I literally earlier on was like, "I love to give recommendations to people," if there is anyone who's watching who was like, "Hmm, I would like to see some, like, black queer movies that have, like, black queer people at the heart of the creation." If you have not already seen because I feel like Moonlight and Tangerine -- GABE: Oh yeah. ROWAN: -- are probably ones that people are like, "Oh, yes, those are the ones that I kind of know." Black British Excellence, that is Campbell Ex. Oh my gosh, watch that live. GABE: Oh, yeah. ROWAN: That's incredible. The Watermelon Woman obviously is an unbelievable movie. Like, I love that film so much. I was really lucky to see it as, like, a remastered version at the British Film Institute. They did, like, a -- GABE: Yes. ROWAN: -- screening of it. It was beautiful and brilliant. I've not seen Naz and Maalik but it's meant to be amazing. It was, I want to say 2015, 2016 and it was basically, like, this sort of acclaimed award winning film that I haven't annoyingly been able to see yet. If you're wanting to go, like, elsewhere, obviously, Rafiki is a Kenyan film that has stunning cinematography, really brilliant chemistry between the leads. There's a lot out there, but it is, as you said, like, difficult to-- to find stuff. And something that might be interesting for people who are looking for one of identities within or that crossover into the queer spectrum that don't get a lot of love. There is a Kenyan film about being intersex that was sort of a documentary that was filmed over three years called Sydney and Friends from a couple of years ago that also might be of interest to people. But go... go seek out this stuff. Don't rely on what pops up on, like, the Netflix, LGBT tab, which is not necessarily -- GABE: Yes. ROWAN: -- the most useful in terms of finding stuff because I think Gabe is absolutely right. Some of the best stuff is going to be things that are happening at, like, your local film festivals, or that have, like, limited releases or-- or kind of indie things on YouTube. So, definitely check those out and kind of be -- GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: -- be willing to go with, like, the authenticity and harbor project rather than just what has the flashiest sort of cameras and-- and lighting, and editing and stuff like that. GABE: Yeah, because, like, this stuff is out there. And it-- it's-- it's a pain in the ass that we have to seek it out. ROWAN: Mhmm. GABE: But when you-- when you find the one that really sticks with you, it makes it. Like, I-- I've talked about it more than once, but, like, I am the storyteller on Shriek Week on Dimension 20. Dimension. 20 is, like, the tabletop role playing side of College Humor. It is essentially-- if you're not familiar with tabletop stuff, it is essentially a narrative improv with rules and mechanics tied into it that are basically linked to, like, dice that we roll that helps us determine if something works, if something doesn't work. And I had a cast of four people playing characters. And my job was basically to facilitate the story, the different other characters they would meet, the way the narrative would go, get the different locations, and what was happening in those moments. And like, NPCs, so non-player characters, were the characters that I was coming up with. And it was kind of, like, a Scooby Doo as, like, monster kind of dating sim dating game thing. And all of the different characters had pronouns that they used. They all had sexual identities, they all had gender identities, they all had likes, dislikes, hobbies that I made for a list of 15 different characters, that somehow I managed to introduce all of them in the first episode. And one of the nicest things was, like, there was-- they were even, like, diverse in nationalities. There was the chupacabra character who was he/him, and he had a skateboard that had the Puerto Rican flag on it because the chupacabra is a Puerto Rican myth. And it was a way to represent so many different aspects of someone and an identity and then represent it. There was Yadd Wega, which was our character that was, like, referencing the Baba Yaga. And we had a Van Helsing character who was neutral-- a gender neutral person that was bi and would also use he/him, but like, preferred the they/them which was, like, kind of a self insert for me, as I was also kind of, like, exploring on aspects of my identity, like, my queer identity. And when I had people reaching out, like, excited or emotional, happy to see, like, there's, like, just gay characters in this show that I watch. And it's just a normal thing for everyone. I don't think any of the characters were just simply, like, the player cards, on the end of them were just simply straight. Everyone had a different gender identity. ROWAN: Like, with these kind of roleplay games, and obviously, Dungeons and Dragons is the one that a lot of people will be most familiar with, but there are so many of them out there. And a lot of them are, like, very specifically built for queer characters and queer players and people to explore that. And that -- GABE: Yeah. ROWAN: -- like, what we were talking about the-- the kind of lack of funding or the lack of access, that actually this is the kind of like very immediately accessible media where, obviously with Dimension 20, you have, like, an actual production going on with it, but -- GABE: Yes. ROWAN: -- you could just as easily, like, grab some friends, start streaming, and tell their story and, like, be the one who gets to tell the tale, the kind of theater of the imagination thing. You don't need all these sets and lights and fancy budget and cameras and editors and color grading and all this kind of stuff, like, you would for making like a TV show or a film. You can decide to tell your own story, you know, as it goes along. And there's some amazing people who are making this stuff that is, like, super diverse, that has all of these voices that you would just not see otherwise. I know that trans [54:49] is, like, doing stuff where it's like, "Hey, we're just going to be, like, trans people making these characters and we're all going to be interacting together and this is going to be us owning and telling our own story." And I think that that's really kind of exciting. I think unless there's anything else you wanted to chat about, I think we can do, like, a sort of-- we can do our concluding remarks. GABE: No, I, that sounds good. Thank you for having me. This was fun. And like kind of cathartic that I didn't even know I wanted. ROWAN: Oh my god, thank you so much for coming on. I was me and Jazza, we went through a load of ideas about different types of episodes we wanted to do with guests, and we knew we wanted to do hot takes, but we were like, "We want something else that people can come and feel really passionate about, but not necessarily have to, like, especially if we invited anyone from the film industry, wouldn't have to, like, burn any bridges." So, something that's positive, and I've really, I've so enjoyed, like, this being the first recording. I'm really glad that we've gotten to, like, chat, because we know each other from the online world, but we haven't really been able -- GABE: Yes. ROWAN: -- to obviously either see each other or kind of talk like this. So, it's been so, so fun to -- GABE: Oh my god. ROWAN: -- to hang out on the-- on the old podcast recording. GABE: Absolutely. ROWAN: This is how I talk to my friends now, everyone. I just invite them on to this podcast, and then I have to put it on my calendar -- GABE: That's smart. ROWAN: -- and it's work so I-- I get to put-- I get to put it in the schedule. GABE: What I'm going to do is I'm going to make a podcast and then make you come on it so we can just-- ROWAN: That's how it works. GABE: But-- but mine will be games that, like, shaped-- shaped you. ROWAN: Oh my god. Amazing. And then I'll have to be, like, snap, tiddlywinks, I'll pick some really good-- I'll pick some, like, really niche British games. Some were like British bulldog. I'll just -- GABE: Tiddlywinks made you gay? ROWAN: Yeah, Tiddlywinks made me gay. I mean, listen, listen, just the name. You'll not say Tiddlywinks made you straight, Gabe. GABE: That's okay. That's actually very fair. No. Okay, you got me there. ROWAN: Amazing. Thank you so much for joining me. GABE: This was a pleasure. ROWAN: Thank you so much for listening. You can follow us on Twitter to keep up to date with everything podcast related. If you enjoyed this episode, please do think about supporting us over on Patreon. Our patrons really are the backbone of the podcast, and in exchange for your support. We have some great Tier Rewards set up over there. One of the perks on our Patreon is a queer movie watch along every last Saturday of the month, exclusively for our patrons. It's very fun, so, you know, come and join us. The Queer Movie Podcast is edited by Julia Schifini. We're also part of Multitude Productions which has a lot more amazing sibling podcasts to ours that you should definitely check out. Make sure you follow and subscribe to the podcast so you are primed for our next episode. Thank you so much for listening, and hopefully you will hear from us very soon. Transcribed by: John Matthew M. Sarong
This episode, we review Netflix's queer Holiday spectacular from 2021, Single All the Way. Single All the Gay would have been a better title for this movie. With Kathy Najimy, Jennifer Coolidge and Michael Urie... this really should have been a better movie. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
We are joined for our first EVER Hot Takes by the incomparable Corry. Corry is Scottish, and a super-star co-host of popular science based podcast ‘Sci Guys'. You can find him on Tik Tok, YouTube and Instagram with lots of crunchy nuggets for your brain. We like Corry, send him love. Find Us Online - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd About The Show Queer Movie Podcast is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we research and rate our way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to black & white classics, Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things gaaaaay on the silver screen. New episodes every other Thursday. Transcript ROWAN: Welcome to the Queer Movie Podcast, celebrating the best and worst in LGBTQ+ Cinema one glorious genre at a time. I'm Rowan Ellis and welcome to one of a couple of brand new types of episodes that we'll be releasing between our usual queer Movie Club episodes. This is hot takes, where I'll be joined by a guest who's come ready to go with three Queer Movie hot takes that they'll need to persuade me of in three arguments or less. I'm very excited to have my friend and shameless Marvel fanboy Corry as our first ever guest of the show. Hi, Corry. CORRY: Hello, Rowan. And hello everyone listening. Wow. ROWAN: What an intro. CORRY: I love that your intro for me now is always Marvel, despite the fact that I'm not always talking about Marvel. I feel like I should have bought a Marvel thing today. ROWAN: Here's the thing, if you send me 1000 voice memos about every Marvel show that's ever come out. That's going to be my go to introduction for you, you need to send me voice notes about whatever you want to be known for. In order for me to now change your introduction. CORRY: You're you're already getting yourself in to so--you're you're, you're not going to enjoy all the voices I'm going to be sending you after this then unfiltered-- ROWAN: No I love a good voice mate. So you are our very, very first guest on this new show. And you have not told me your hot takes in advance which I'm very excited to find out and and hear all of your reasonings and your ar--and your arguments and all that stuff. So I have no idea if I'm going to be fully in support of what you're saying. Or utterly outraged at everything you have to bring to the table today. So would you like to hit me with hot take number one? CORRY: Okay. I think hot take number one is an easier one. Hot take number one, all love triangles would be improved, if the characters were bi, every single one. ROWAN: I am obsessed with this already. Okay, so take take me through this. Give me Give me your argument. CORRY: Okay. So, before I do little argument number one, I'll just give a little bit of an explanation. ROWAN: Oh, yeah. Give me the explanation. CORRY: When I say love triangle, I mean any love polygon. So any any number of shapes you want for people to be in love would be improved by all of the characters, not just some, all of the characters being by I'm saying this out loud. I'm realizing how ridiculous this sounds ROWAN: No commit commit to the bit, Corry. CORRY: Argument number one, is that it is more interesting, because there are more interactions, all right. You've got a normal love triangle. Okay, let's use Twilight as an example. Something that I haven't even I haven't even watched all the Twilight movies. Twilight, you've got Bella, you've got Edward and you've got Jacob, right? And Jacob and Edward both like Bella, but they can't like each other because they're straight boys. You know, it doesn't work. ROWAN: Hmm. CORRY: You've just got Bella is this intersection. But if Edward and Jacob were to like each other, boom. What if Edward and Jacob got together? That's another interaction there. It's a perfect way to sort of have some more. There's there's more going on there more character interactions. You don't have just people, "Oh, I hate you because you want the same girl that I want". It's a case of what if I want you too? ROWAN: Ooh. CORRY: More interactions, means more better. ROWAN: Okay, so already, I have a a potential comment on the example that you've chosen to use, which is that and I think that because you haven't finished all of the Twilight movies or books. This might have passed you by and that's why you've chosen this particular example. But are you aware that this loved supposed love triangle is in fact a love square? And the fourth corner of the square is Bella and Edward's infant child. CORRY: I'm look I'm well aware of Renesmee and I detest her name. I detest almost everything that happens is to do with that character. And I like to just pretend that she doesn't exist, because then we have to get into the conversation of does imprinting, did that come into love triangles? Is it not a love triangle and then an imprinting square if you add that in? I don't know. ROWAN: So I think your hot take is your hot take is love polygons would be improved if everyone was bisexual, and there was no imprinting like in brackets asterisk, like also no imprinting. CORRY: Oh, absolutely. I think also no Imprinting is it's just an addendum to my life at this point. That's how that's how much impact these films that I haven't fully watched have had on me, yes. ROWAN: Did, yeah, just assume every hot take from now on both Corry's and you know what everyone who comes to the show has an asterisk, that's also also no imprinting. And I fully support that I've got no arguments here. CORRY: Fantastic precedent to set. ROWAN: So okay, hi--hi hit me with your second argument, cuz you're making a strong one so far, this does seem like it would add add to the drama add to the connections. CORRY: Okay, good, I'm glad. I've built this one, just I I've actually structured this one, I think quite well. So the first argument is more interactions, but more interactions means more outcomes, okay. So if there's more outcomes, then you you're left guessing like, what's going to happen? Is Edward going to end up with Jacob? Is Bella going to end up with Edward or Ja--? Who knows? We don't know. There are more outcomes. And so you don't you know, usually when you're watching a film, you're like, Oh, well, this character is obviously gonna end up with that character. But if there's a love square, gosh, you've got so many different interactions and people can people can end up with each other. Also also, you can have the coveted polycule. You can have a little get a little thruple going on there as well. So many things happening. You left guessing you don't know films just become far, far better. Because there's so many more options to choose from. You don't have to go with just like, you know, the first boyfriend or the other one the bad boy that comes in. In the second film. Again, I'm talking about Twilight. I hope that I'm being accurate because I haven't seen it. Well, maybe the Hunger Games. What if Gale and Peeta ended up together huh? ROWAN: Hmm. CORRY: That'd be interesting. What if Katniss just left because she doesn't care about either of them. That would make more sense. ROWAN: You're not wrong it would, it in fact would. My favorite part of, I can't remember if it's in the films, but in the books when she's trying to decide between them. She functionally is like, Okay, well, this one bakes bread. But this one hunts, but I can hunt. But I can't bake bread, I guess it's Peeta. And yeah, I feel like that would be maybe improved if the boys had had other options. And just waiting to see whether she needed someone who could bake bread or hunt more. CORRY: We--this is because I think this is a really a really good example as well. I'm glad you brought this up, because I'm pretty sure that well, he bakes bread and he hunts is in the book, because there's not really a huge love triangle in the book. It's more focused on, you know, the PTSD of having to kill numerous children. ROWAN: Mmm mmm, Of course, of course. CORRY: Yeah. Which the film interestingly chose to set aside in favor of which hot boy do I want. Now if the film chose to set that aside in favor of which hot boy do I want? But also, do the hot boys want each other? Perfect. It it's so much better because which hot boy do I want would absolutely take over your life in place of that PTSD from-- ROWAN: From the Hunger Games. CORRY: --getting rid all of those kids. Yeah. ROWAN: This is very much reminding me of you know those puzzles where there's a shape and then in the shape, there are triangles. And it's like how many triangles in this shape? And at first-- CORRY: Yeah. ROWAN: --I think there's just one triangle and then there's so many more. I feel like this is like there's so many combinations you could go to because we're only talking right now about Edward, Bella and Jacob or Katniss, Gale and Peeta. But you could have Katniss, Gale, Peeta, Edward, Bella and Jacob. CORRY: That's I've got I've got one I've got I've got one who like all the stops. ROWAN: Okay, take me-- CORRY: A Midsummer Night's Dream. ROWAN: Huh. CORRY: Boom. Every single person falling in love with every single other person across gender lines. ROWAN: Incredible. CORRY: And then ending up together in the end. Wow. Perfect. Even get Bottom in there. Amazing. ROWAN: He, yeah, obviously. I doubt there was no question that the that Bottom was going to be part of his equation. But Bottom human or or Bottom donkey? CORRY: I think the top was donkey, the bottom was human. ROWAN: There we go. It's all-- CORRY: Right? ROWAN: --all of the above. This, this is making a lot of sense to me. To be honest, I kind of wanted to find some kind of hole in your argument. But ultimately, it's just making sense to me. And I think that as well, because you you added in there polyamory I feel like that adds another level to it. Which I only appreciate more. You know what I mean? Like this is all this is all making sense. Okay, I guess here's a counter argument. Are we tired of love triangles all together? Is there a hotter take where we just take love triangles off the table? CORRY: I thought this, I'm glad that you've said this. Because I've got argument number three. ROWAN: Hit me. CORRY: Which is, I think a direct answer to this. The reason that love triangles are boring. We don't want love triangles anymore. It's because there's no stakes. It's which pretty boy will you choose? Which pretty girl will you choose? Non-binary people don't come into this because non-binary people aren't in films. But if if we have every character in a love triangle be bisexual, there are more stakes. Because of the two things I've said already. The more interactions and more outcomes. There's more at stake here. There's more to lose, there's more to gain. It's way more interesting. It's way more exciting. The only reason love triangles are boring though is because we've got to see which which straight couple is going to be straight. But if they could all end up together, perfect resolution, everyone's happy and no one sad. It's so much better. ROWAN: Have you seen this particular hot taken action before? Do you have any examples of love triangles that you've seen? Where we you know, this is a theory right now, you're a science boy, from what I remember of science when I did to do it as a child, you got a hypothesis and you've got to test it. Do we have any examples currently or is this new waters that we're entering with this concept? CORRY: I'm going to go out on a limb and I'm going to say the first Scooby Doo film is an example of this. I choose to believe that the Mystery Gang they are not they are not simply four friends. They are a polycule. They're they're a little group of polyamorous pals hanging out together solving mysteries. ROWAN: So, far be it for me to question. The additional hot take you've added on to this one with the theory that the Scooby gang are in fact a polyamorous like quadrant and dog. What evidence Have you bought to me to to say that this is happening? And this is this is working as a relationship as a love square. CORRY: I'm going to be honest, Rowan it's just vibes. It's just it's pure vibes. ROWAN: And you know what that is the heart of Queer Cinema. To be honest, Corry, vibes is what we had for a very long time. We've only really had solid evidence for a short few decades. And so in in this court of Queer Cinema, vibes do count as evidence. CORRY: Fantastic. I'm so glad, have I have I convinced you? Do I win? Have I have I won? ROWAN: I wish I had some kind of sound effects to like a bell or something that could be like ding, ding, you've won. Yes, I fully already was on board. As soon as you said it. I I also think that this would be much more interesting. And I feel like this is a an immediate sell for me. If if someone was to come up to me and say, "Hey, read this book. It's got a love triangle. But it's a proper triangle". It's not just like an angle. CORRY: Exactly. ROWAN: Without a third line joining the the last two points. It is a full triangle. I'm there. I don't have to know anything else about the book like I'm intrigued. So yeah you already had me and and giving me those arguments giving those examples hinging it on Twilight, a bold move, but I think it paid off in the end because it is such a classic love triangle that I think could only be improved by the bold decision to not have one of them be in love with a fetus. So that that-- CORRY: Good Lord. ROWAN: -- completely convinced. Ding ding ding. Would you like to bring me hot take number two? If on the hot on the hottakeometer. Is this spicier? Is this hotter? CORRY: Yeah, I think this is, you know, I think it's increasing in levels of spice, you know-- ROWAN: Love that. CORRY: It definitely in levels of my own personal spice. We're going to we're going to be getting very heated towards the end. This this-- ROWAN: I'm excited. CORRY: --little one. I think it's a little bit hotter. In fact, I'm I'm so bold that I've included only a single single argument because I am so confident with this one. ROWAN: Oh, wow. So listeners at home when I sent Corry the sort of instructions for preparing for this episode. I did say that he could try and convince me in three arguments or less. Now I was kind of thinking that he was going to prepare the three arguments. And then I might just be like, Nope, we only needed that one. It was good enough. But he everyone is so confident in this next hot take. It's only going to take one argument to persuade me and assumably you at home as well. Corry, take it away. CORRY: Call Me By Your Name, the tentpole groundbreaking gay film of the summer, is not a gay film. ROWAN: Huh. Everyone, pause for a moment to absorb that when me and Jazza conceived of this format. Truly, we could not have predicted the wild sentences that we're about to come our way from our first guest. Okay, you know what? I've I've absorbed it. I'm I'm I'm ruminating, my brain is going. Hit me with your one and only argument. CORRY: The characters are not gay. ROWAN: Okay, so, Corry. CORRY: Let me elaborate. ROWAN: For those for those at home who haven't seen this movie or or you know, somehow aren't familiar with it. Can you take us through the plot? Like what is what is this movie about? That might make people assume that these were gay characters? CORRY: Well, for one thing, there is an awful lot of gay kissing, and sex. But I I I I still maintain that these characters are not gay. So let's use the actor's names because it's much easier for everyone to picture. So Armie Hammer and Timothée Chalamet are two men, two bros. Timothée Chalamet, he lives with his parents. They've gone to Italy for the summer. And Armie Hammer comes to you know, work with his dad, I think, I assume. And then they hit it off, there's there's a few sparks of love. And they start getting together, and it's a lovely time. And by the end, Armie Hammer has to go back home to America and ends up ending his relationship with Timothée Chalamet. And we find out at the end, that Armie Hammer has a wife that he's going to get married to. Very interesting. ROWAN: Mmm. CORRY: And also in the beginning Timothée Chalamet, he has a girlfriend. ROWAN: Okay, so we have the background info. Give us the reasoning. CORRY: So the reasoning here is, I think fairly simple. Everyone's called it, "Oh, it's the it's the gay film". Because the main sort of relationship of the film is two men. And so saying that that is a homosexual relationship is, it's kind of true. But also, everyone is very ready to invalidate the fact that at least one of the main characters seems somewhat enthusiastically attracted to women. ROWAN: Hmm. CORRY: Right? So Timothée Chalamet, his character, has a girlfriend at at the beginning and has sex with her. And not in a sense of like, "Oh, gosh, I hope no one finds out my secret. I hope no one knows that I'm that I'm a big old gay". He seems happy enough with it, he seems good to go. I don't think there's any reason to assume that he is not attracted to women, just because he's attracted to a man. And, you know, obviously Armie Hammer's character at the end spoilers, I'm sorry. Those end up with a woman. Now. I think that's maybe a little bit more reluctant. But still, there is nothing sort of, as far as I'm aware explicitly in the film to suggest that these characters are both entirely gay men. And so I think saying that it's a gay film. It's not true, it's not true. And also, I really feel like the experiences are far more bisexual than they are anything else. Boom. ROWAN: You know what? You you came out very controversially. CORRY: I did. ROWAN: You did a little twist in there. Because for a second, I was like, How is this boy going to convince me that that peach scene was straight? But you didn't do that at all-- CORRY: Well we all know what a peach emoji it's supposed to represent, right? ROWAN: True Love and romance only. Yeah. You you this is this is. So confession time, everyone. And I can't believe I must do this on a podcast literally called the Queer Movie Podcast. I have not seen Call Me By Your Name. CORRY: Wow, I-- ROWAN: Yeah. CORRY: --didn't know that you hated bisexual men so much. ROWAN: Yeah, it's it's it's been a real struggle for me. And I'm really coming to terms with it now live on the air. Yeah, I just there was just something about Timothée Chalamet, Armie Hammer, age gap romance that just wasn't calling me by any name. And I, so I haven't, I haven't done it. And there was part of me that kind of just assumed that at some point, we would do it for the podcast or for the watch alongs that we do on the discord. And that that would be the point at which I would watch it because I didn't know whether I would be able to do it. Sort of through my own volition on my own time. CORRY: Mmm. ROWAN: But this is, from what I understand about the movie, this makes a whole lot of sense. And, you know, we're all it's all fun and games on the hot take show. But also, this is kind of an interesting point about the idea of bisexuality being kind of a raised from a lot of these discussions that something gets labeled as like a gay movie, or a gay classic or something like that. And I think it kind of does a disservice to both kind of communities, both identities that you have this real erasure of bisexuality at all from that kind of narrative around the movie. But then you also have gay people who are watching a movie where it's like, oh, this, this also isn't me like this is this is actually not for bi people, but this, this character is bisexual. And this is kind of been not marketed wrong. But like the discussion around it seems to be kind of lacking, and and not quite what what anyone was expecting. So that makes a lot of sense to me. CORRY: Yeah, I mean, the thing is, you say marketing, which I think it is, in part, it is marketing. But also, I feel like everyone that watches it as well. But I mean, not to not to have a go at the gays. But even the community watching it will talk about it as the gay film, which is interesting, because I think, especially because this is about two men, you have this whole thing where men can't experiment with other men. Men can't show any interest in another man in any way without being labeled as gay. ROWAN: Mmm. CORRY: And bisexuality for a man is generally a case of, well, you're really gay, but you're just hiding it, you know? ROWAN: Uh-hmm. CORRY: So and it it's interesting to see it even come in, in this sense of, oh, well, this is a film where the characters seem to quite explicitly be interested in both men and women. But we're gonna call it gay anyway. And I will understand if it didn't come into the plot, but the girlfriend is a fair part of sort of Ello's story as a character. And the sort of fiancee turned wife for Armie Hammer is a major, major thing that happens at the end of the film. So it's interesting to me that we we kind of very much ignore that for I guess, maybe more simple story of these two characters are our gay boys and love, both gay boy and gay men in love. ROWAN: Yeah, that does make a lot of sense. I think that what you said about the idea of for bisexual men, there's this assumption of like, oh, you're really gay. And I think that for bisexual women, there is this idea of like, oh, you're really straight, but you just like to experiment a bit like it's just a bit of a double-- CORRY: Mmm. ROWAN: --and I think both of those are, you know, tie with the idea that being attracted to men is the priority and that everything else is going to be surplus to requirement, which you know, not a thing. But there we go. CORRY: As a man, as a man, I think being attracted to at least man is very important. Me, me being attracted to me is very, very important-- ROWAN: For everyone. CORRY: So for everyone, yes, I I would very much like to exist as an attractive being across all set lines of sexuality, you know, so I I can I can understand the patriarchy goal there. To--you can I can empathize with that. But no, no, seriously it is, it is really interesting as well, because I I think it also comes into how we describe those relationships in terms of, we've got homosexual relationships, which could include to people that aren't homosexual-- ROWAN: Hmm. CORRY: --technically, you know, and I think it's, I think it's just not necessarily bad or problematic. It's just an interesting and sometimes frustrating quirk of the language that-- ROWAN: Hmm. CORRY: --we use, you know. ROWAN: I was gonna say, yeah, that language quirk of, how do you refer to things? Like, what are you trying to make clear, right? Like within this. CORRY: Hmm. ROWAN: Are you trying to make your own identity clear? Or the relationship between two people like, how do you describe a a bisexual relationship? When one person's bi, when two people are bi, when it's different genders, same genders. Like I think that that there's not necessarily expansive enough language for that-- CORRY: Hmm. ROWAN: --to be like, immediately obvious from like one word, and it does have to be more complex. And maybe people are just bad at being complex. And it's a lot easier to just kind of use that use the slightly wrong word that says what you want to say about this relationship, which, you know, for people talking about Call Me By Your Name is like, "Hey, gay, look look, we get some some gay" CORRY: Mmm. ROWAN: Even if that's not actually accurate. CORRY: Yeah, well, isn't it seen as gay rep. But it's it's, I don't think it really is gay representation, you know. I I do think it's just interesting. I I mean, personally, I think that if it is two bisexual people in a relationship, that that relationship isn't that relationship isn't a gay relationship necessarily, you know. ROWAN: Or a straight one. CORRY: Or a straight one, yeah. Which is, I think, an issue, I think it's a bisexual relationship relationship. ROWAN: Uh-hmm. CORRY: And I definitely think that when is two bisexual people, when if it's a bisexual person, the gay person or bisexual person, the straight person, it's a slightly different story. But when it's to bisexual people, I genuinely think that affect the relationship in a fairly unique way. But yeah, and also, I'm going to put it out there, just in case anyone's gonna come at me. My brain side has tried to tell me there, Come At Me By Your Name, if anyone tries to come at me by your name. Yes, the characters could also be pansexual, or any other kind of polysexual. I'm going to leave that one up to you. But yeah, no, Call Me By Your Name, It's not a gay film. I've had that inside me since it came out. And I've not been I've not had an outlet for it. So thank you very much for for giving me that. ROWAN: I'm so glad I could give it to you. I did want to also this is not necessarily about Call Me By Your Name, but because I think it's not quite you kind of hinted at the idea of maybe there being some, not necessarily coercion, but not necessarily enthusiastic relationship at the end for one of the characters with a woman. CORRY: Mmm. ROWAN: And, you know, it wasn't so long ago that people were essentially like, forced into relationships that were straight relationships, if they were gay. How do you think about those sort of historic narratives? Or whether that's fictional or I guess, with with real people, where we do have this complicated relationship between you know, was this person bisexual? Because it was a woman who seemed to have relationships with women but married a man? Or can we label them as gay? Like, what what is your thoughts? I know, we're going slightly on a tangent here, but I do think it's kind of relevant-- CORRY: Mmm. ROWAN: --on like, can we label anyone in history in that way? Like, do do we know anything? For sure if we, if they didn't necessarily have the language to describe it. Like how do you as, as a bisexual person, kind of find bisexual people in history to feel like there's, you know, some kind of connection to or affiliation with or anything like that? Or is it is it not possible? Is it is it more of sort of like a nebulous queerness in history that, that we can't really map onto today's ideas of identity? CORRY: Yeah, I think you, honestly, I think you hit the nail on the head with that last one. But I do have to say that us going on a tangent. Wow, who would have thought we do that? ROWAN: I know. So out of character-- CORRY: Never once happened. Yeah, so no, I think that in in terms of sort of looking back through history, unless someone was is is explicitly described themselves in some way, yeah, I don't think you can apply on modern conceptions. Because even looking back not even 100 years ago, you have people describing themselves as transexual. Whereas now that's kind of out of fashion today. And there's a bunch of different words, some of which, honestly, I don't even necessarily want to use on this podcast. ROWAN: Hmm. CORRY: Because I don't want to be too, too spicy. But there were words that people explicitly use to describe themselves, whereas nowadays, we might call them trans or we might call them non-binary. Or we might use any other kind of word that, you know, that's the thing. And this was like 50, 60 years ago, oh, wait no more than 50, 60 years ago. Because time continues to move forwards. But you know, less than 100 years ago, let's say, that these words were entirely different. So if you're, if we're going to look back through history, even to you know, sort of 100, 200 years ago, it becomes really, really difficult to sort of accurately use our own terms to apply to other people. And I don't think it's, I don't think it's actually terribly important to find representation of specific identities throughout history because ultimately specific identities it doesn't. It doesn't matter in that context, all that matters is this person wasn't straight or cisgender in some way, they sort of broke those normal societal conventions. In that sense, their specific identity is sort of not hugely relevant, so long as it's not, it it wasn't that relevant to themselves, you know. Because then we get into the whole issue of erasing anything that is not inherently binary, you know. ROWAN: Mmm. CORRY: Which is an issue in and of itself. Although if you do want to look back and see, I don't know a lady pirate that loved other lady pirates and say she was a lesbian pirate. I think that's ultimately fine. You're not really harming anyone, they're all dead, it's it's good. They're not going to be too wound up. But-- ROWAN: And also if they were, like, if if here's-- CORRY: Yup ROWAN: --the thing though, if they were wound up about it, I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing. That a hot lesbian pirate ghost now wants vengeance on me. Like that, I'm not gonna lie Corry like that's almost the dream. CORRY: Rowan, what are you doing after this? I think we have a spec script we need to write about a hot lesbian pirate haunting some. It's like-- ROWAN: We're on it. Sorry guys, we're gonna end the podcast early because me and Corry need to make millions with this genius idea. CORRY: Haunting to lovers story. ROWAN: Oh my-- CORRY: I love it. ROWAN: --God. [26:32] [Transition Music to ADS] ROWAN: Dear listener, I have a question for you. Would you like to raise money while procrastinating online? This isn't some magical dream world this is an actual thing that you can do with tab for a cause. It is a browser extension that lets you raise money for charity, while just doing your own thing, typing away on the internet. So basically, how it works is, whenever you open a new tab, you will see two things. One, a beautiful photo and two, a small ad, part of that ads money then goes towards a charity, not just any charity, a charity of your choice. If that sounds like your kind of thing. And honestly, why would it not be then you can join Team Queer Movie Podcast by signing up at tabforacause.org/queermovie. Check out the other shows that are part of the Multitude collective. I think that you like stories, you like queerness you like a good time, in which case I think you'd also like Spirits. So Spirits was actually the first podcast that I listened to for the Multitude Collective. And I'm obsessed, I was obsessed then I'm still obsessed now. Basically, it is a mix of like history, storytelling and comedy. The focus is on, you know, folklore, mythology, the occult, all of that good stuff. But specifically looking at it from a feminist, sort of queer and modern lens. It is fantastic. Basically what happens is, they get together to learn about different stories from mythology and folklore. And they also get together to have a to have a little drink, hence, Spirits and Spirits, genius. So every week, the host of the podcast mythology, [28:14] Julia, who little behind the scenes info is in fact, the editor for the Queer Movie Podcast, and her childhood friend, Amanda get together to discuss like stories that they have found that week. So not only do they talk about the sort of origins of mythology, that all that old school stuff, they also talk about how it has fed into things like major film franchises, for example. So Lord of the Rings, Wonder Woman, how those kind of stories of old are connected to the things that we watch today. There are also these amazing episodes, which have viewers submitting their own legends of like the place that they go up or their particular culture or folklore. And it is amazing to hear about all of these, like creepy or interesting stories from around the world, that people like you who are like listening to the podcast have submitted to them. And obviously, you're listening to the Queer Movie Podcast, and we have only just started. But if you're looking for a podcast that has way more of a history to it, and mythology, you might say, Spirits will be amazing for you. They have been going for literally years, five years now. They have over 250 episodes, tons of different topics to dip your toe into, they have everything from the analysis of how mental health is portrayed in mythology, creepy modern ghost stories, around up of different werewolf mythology from around the world. Just brilliant stuff all round. So if that sounds like it is up your alley, then you can dive in at spiritspodcast.com or by searching for Spirits wherever you download your podcasts. And if you end up liking the podcast, which I'm sure that you will and you want to follow along with them on social media, please message them and tell them that I sent you. Okay, that's it for me back to the show. [29:50] [Transition Music] ROWAN: Okay, so I think it's time to move on to the third and final hot take and from what you've said, so far, I'm anticipating this being the spiciest. This is, you know, we can only take one little drop of this hot sauce, because otherwise we would die. So take it away. CORRY: Oh my gosh, I'm almost scared to say this. This is a piece of Queer Cinema that is very new, that you well know, I have had a very, very tumultuous relationship with for some time. And I actually struggled to find what exactly my hot take was, because I had to make sure that I'd be able to get through all of it in the allotted time. So I have I have come up with this single sentence. Everybody's Talking About Jamie is a bad film that exists to exploit and pander to cis white men, and straight people that are liberal, but find gays fun and cool. ROWAN: You packed it into that sentence, okay. So for for anyone who doesn't know, Everybody's Talking About Jamie, it was originally a musical in the West End. And it recently got an adaptation on film, which is pretty accurate to the to the stage musical actually. It's they've kind of swapped-- CORRY: Mmm. ROWAN: --some songs around. But in generally, it's, it's there's not any kind of like, different ending to sending or anything like that. It's it's essentially it's like based on a true story. And it's about a boy and boy in England, who wants to become a drag queen. He's like 16 years old, it's his dream. And it's kind of him following his dream, and the pitfalls and the triumphs along the way. So very, very classic, kind of like British clash of cultures type movie like Billy Elliot, but more gay vibes, in terms of like the overall kind of foundations of of what the movie is trying to do. So Corry, hit me with your reasoning behind that extremely long sentence hot take that you just gave. CORRY: Okay. So I think what I'll start with is the white men part. So I've said that it exists to sort to exploit and pander to cis white men, and let's say, liberal allies, in quotes. And the the white part is the very obvious thing of between the stage musical and the film, they changed the main character to white again. So initially, in the stage played, the character was white, because the real person is white. And then they had a good run of casting mixed race actors in this role, which was interesting, because otherwise, you know, other than a, you know, a couple of sort of, I think, two Asian characters. It's a very, it's a very white story. So this was an interesting little thing. But when they transitioned to the screen, they decided to remove that added little bit of diversity. And I I wonder why perhaps that a white face is a little bit more marketable to your target audience of liberal allies, and this white gay men who really seemed to see themselves in this story. ROWAN: Yeah, so this is this is totally true. They had this lead character who was based on like, the actual Jamie. And then they kind of did this casting that wasn't just for one run, right? Like, I feel like there's been like two or three mixed race guys like in the role. CORRY: Yeah. ROWAN: And it wasn't just like a one off stunt casting kind of thing. CORRY: It almost I would say, honestly, to the point where it was one of those things that it it kind of became a part of the role to an extent, you know. And it was, for me, it was interesting, because if you've, if you've seen the film, if you've seen the musical, you know, that the father, the dad, is very much kind of a macho man, he likes the football, and he just wants his son to be his son. He doesn't want his son to be weird and away with the fairies and you know, dressing up like a lady and all that and all that nonsense. Which I think having a black father in that role was a really interesting, it could be like, you know, even though it's a very minor role, it was an interesting little exploration of that sort of masculinity that is sort of pervasive in black men, the inability to sort of even reconcile with some kind of homosexuality. That was interesting to me that added like a nice little element to it. And I think that's what's important about sort of adding diversity in that way. That you can do it as a lateral move, you can do it if it doesn't add anything, you just want to add diversity, that is fine. That is an okay thing to do. But it is far better when you add some kind of diversity to it, you add an added identity, and it elevates by adding something new for example, making Harry Potter mixed race would add to the character in a really interesting way. I won't get into it right now. ROWAN: I But I fully agree with you there. I to the point-- CORRY: [34:26] ROWAN: --where sometimes I I look at like, I read fan, Harry Potter fanfic, I know I'm a terrible person still but like, I'll read Harry Potter fanfiction or look at fan art. And there'll be a moment where I'm like, they will say something that makes it clear like in the fanfiction that this Harry is white and for a second. I'm like, wait, what? And then I'm like, oh, because yeah, he is he he is in the books. CORRY: Yeah. ROWAN: I kind of forgot that for a minute. Because it's it's so people have people the fandom of like, basically, it's been like, okay, Joanne, like, sure. We're just gonna do the better version of this and I fully support it. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense that there's these these elements in the story that kind of get improved. And I do think that because they did make minor but some changes, they also potentially had the opportunity within the movie to say, "Okay, we originally wrote this role about this white boy. And we changed the casting and it kind of changed maybe the interpretation or the look of it", but like, what would it mean to actually change it for a mixed race character? Like, was there anything that would have been added? Or would have been interesting to add that would have liked further that even more? CORRY: Yeah, well, I mean, so obviously, as I mentioned, the character of the father, but Jamie himself is obviously breaking sort of boundaries of gender, to an extent, and again, has that sort of relationship with his father. And he's also got a whole issue of not really knowing where he belongs, and not having a sort of place that he could fit in and be himself. And I think that obviously, very, very easily slots into mixed race characters, you know. When you've got a character that feels like they don't fit in making the mixed race can, you know, often add another element to that. Add an interesting element that kind of goes along with that. And, yeah, it's just interesting, because I feel like it we we've gotten to a point now, and the film seems to be set in 2020 or 2021. You know, in this in this sort of decade, we're at a point now, where, generally drag is not as sort of groundbreaking as it was a decade ago when this story actually happened. And so it's kind of hard to believe, watching this film, that this white gay kid, this, this white gay kid is so groundbreaking, just because he enjoys a little bit of drag, you know, and so adding in almost a sort of racism element to it, as well, because then, you know, the bully character that is bullying him, you know, Jamie and his and his friend, is bullying, basically, the two of the sort of non white characters in the play in the musical rather, which is interesting, right? You add that sort of racism element, because the bullying isn't just about the character being gay, it's about him and his friend not being white. And also he's gay. It's just that added little thing there. It makes it I think, a little bit more believable. And ultimately, I think we've had a lot, like quite a lot of stories about gay white men, you know, not that we've had a lot of stories about gay people, but a lot of the stories about gay people have been about white men. I mean, Moonlight is the only real, like, major example of here's a story about gay people that isn't about white men. And that was marketed specifically as that as a deviation from that norm, you know. So I think if we're going to talk about this film as being groundbreaking and being the major this major story, this, this this sort of tentpole movie, we need to try a little harder and make it a little bit different from what's come before, you know. ROWAN: Yeah, that makes make sense. CORRY: And I think, you know, I'm not going back on the race of the sort of new race of the character. Makes sense for that. ROWAN: Yeah, you, there we go. Tick, tick, tick. Reason number two, do you have another another argument? CORRY: Oh, boy, I've got I've got really three solid arguments here. ROWAN: Okay. Okay, I'm ready. CORRY: So I've explained the sort of white part of this, and I want to explain why it's pandering to sort of cis men here. There is a line that is repeated a number of times throughout the film, a boy in a dress is something to be laughed at. A drag queen is something to be feared, is paraphrase the key point there is a boy in a dress or something to be laughed at. Now, that to someone who is entirely entirely unaware of trans and non binary people, or even just gender non conforming people is absolutely is absolutely a fair thing to say. And to be fair, at the end of the film, Jamie does show up in a dress as a boy in a dress. But the amount of times that it's explicitly said that a boy in a dress is something to be laughed at. The fact that it's not explicitly said otherwise at the end of the film, is just it's not it's not necessarily great. I think it's very easy to come away with the message that a boy addresses something to be laughed at. And Jamie was very brave for coming for coming to his prom as a boy in a dress, you know? ROWAN: Mmm. CORRY: I I think honestly this comes down to the film just I say the film is bad. I think the film is muddled in its messaging, its character arcs don't make sense. Jamie is a very confident person who then does drag and decides that drag is what makes him confident and he's not confident not as not in drag when that's not at all what we've seen throughout the film. The film is very heavy handed in some ways. And so I think that if if you say explicitly a boy, a boy in a dress or something to be laughed at, and you're heavy handed in all other ways, I don't think you can leave it down to subtext at the end of the film to kind of go back on that, you know. ROWAN: Okay, so here's the thing with your first hot take. I was already with you-- CORRY: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --with your second hot take. I was like I do not know enough about this movie to necessarily have an opinion on the offset. With this third one. CORRY: Yeah. ROWAN: I reasonably enjoyed this movie. Like I've seen I really liked the musical, I've seen the musical and I was like yeah, this is fine. It did it did kind of suffer in my head from like stage acting on screen like a lot of the script and stuff was-- CORRY: Yeah, oh God-- ROWAN: --it was scripted, made. sense for onstage because on stage, you kind of do a little bit more expositionie, didacticiel stuff. And it sort of works-- CORRY: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --because it's quite stylized. But when it's in a movie, it just feels very heavy handed. And so there was just an element of that where it's like, oh, I can forgive that, like, it's fine. I will say, with this, this hot take that you're bringing right now, you're kind of persuading me-- CORRY: Ohh. ROWAN: --because I I hadn't really thought about that line in terms of like its implications. CORRY: Mmm. ROWAN: Because I was like, so aware of the, like you said, like already kind of knew all of the stuff around like, actually that's not true. And like, this is clearly a lesson that's gonna be learned and blah, blah, blah. But you're right, like it doesn't explicitly, then counter it in a in a strong enough way at the end. CORRY: Yeah, ultimately, I see this film as being generally and I know, and I I have friends that enjoy it that are outside of this group that I'm talking about, you know. So I don't don't take this as me saying this, I see a lot of people enjoying this film. And that's me saying these are the only people who enjoy this film. But we'll see a lot of people enjoy this film seem to be the kind of guys that would be on Grindr saying no fats, no fems, no blacks ROWAN: Mmm. CORRY: You know, that absolutely seems to be the kind of they'd be happy doing that. Or rather, you know, probably note, no fat, no black, no Asian, does that sort of thing. Because there is this kind of racism, and this kind of, I guess, I mean, transphobia, that is deep seated in a particular part of the gay community. And this film, it it talks about breaking gender, but only through the medium of drag. And it's really interesting, because it doesn't even get the medium of drag, right? This is not this is not one of my arguments, I'm sorry, this is just something that really woke me up. It doesn't get the medium of drag, right? Jamie doesn't focus at all on his performance. He doesn't do his own makeup, he doesn't do his own hair. He buys a dress, sure, but it's not a dress that he's picked out, or a dress that he's made himself. He does absolutely nothing. We don't see Jamie practicing his dances, or practicing his lip syncing or perhaps practicing any form of artistry whatsoever, he just wants to wear a dress. And I think that's just a complete misunderstanding of what drag is generally. And it is just really interesting that it seems to be written from it seems to be written from an outside perspective, entirely. It's it's so it's baffling to me that this this film seems to be so just almost wrong about its subject matter. I think the reason that it that it sort of so many people enjoy it. And you've said the best thing there, by the way, is that you can forgive this, you can forgive that. I think the reason people forgive so much of the the knock great stuff in this film, the stuff that you know, in any other film, you'd be like, Oh, this is a bad film. The reason that's forgiven is because there is this slight sort of emotional core to Jamie's character that is kind of explicitly said throughout the film, rather than being implicit, or there in any other sense of, I am the only gay person in my school. And this is new to everyone, and no one knows how to act. And it's very difficult for me, and I think that's something that resonates with people that are maybe it's my age or older. But with the with the youths now they everyone is everyone seems to be queer, you know, I mean. And you've got the Internet where you can find that family, it seems that this is this is sort of reaching to a slightly older audience who are willing to look past all of the stuff that is sort of not great about the film. Because it feels like it's telling their story, explicitly the fact that Jamie is an awful selfish character that really no one should like at all. If you actually look at what Jamie does in the film, awful person, but people overlook that because they're not thinking about Jamie as a character. They're thinking, I'm gonna put myself in this character's shoes, because this character feels like me, you know? ROWAN: Yeah, this is slowly becoming a call out podcast Corry-- CORRY: I'm so sorry. ROWAN: I'd be really interested to know like, what young people now think of this because I I'm not entirely convinced that it's like, a gay haven out there for it all the queers are just like partying it up in their high schools, I have a feeling that there's probably a lot of young people who who do kind of resonate with that, that feeling of being the only person. CORRY: Abso--I don't mean to give the idea that every single kid nowadays is in school and is able to be out and proud. What I mean is that there is much more now, a possibility of finding that family online. ROWAN: Mmm. CORRY: So while you can still have that feeling of school, you're not necessarily feeling like you need to hide yourself from everyone. Like you've got no family, like you need to find a sort of drag queens shop in the middle of Sheffield in order to have that acceptance. That that's all I mean, it it just the film feels dated, I think, because it is set now, you know, with with just the sort of phone that they're using the fact that people want to be YouTube stars, and they're filming Instagram story, videos and whatnot. It's just having it set quite explicitly now, makes it feel very dated and kind of stilted I think. ROWAN: Do you think it would have been improved if they'd have set it when this originally happened? If it had been like a slightly 10, 20 years ago kind of vibe? CORRY: Yeah, I think if they went 10 years ago, and they really hammered that home, and really went in more to I think the fact that Jamie has no one to connect with outside of this. That would have really been better, because we kind of got to not believe that that RuPaul has been on the air for, for for years, you know, and that drag has become something that everyone is kind of aware of no. I mean, obviously everyone was aware of drag before, but it's become something that's much more normalized, you know. You've got to put a lot of side to sort of believe and enjoy this film, I think. And you were saying, you know, about sort of what young people think of this, I I ran a poll on my Instagram, and I have a varying range of people. But it was 47% of people said they liked it, 53% of people said they hated it. Which I thought was quite interesting, it was much more split, I thought I was going to be in the minority here. But just a very slight majority, they're just very interesting, you know. I've got a third point, but it is a very, very quick and easy point. That's, that's just really to put a little cherry on top of the cake. I said that it's pandering. And I want to sort of qualify that the reason that's pandering and not sort of actually, in support of what it's talking about, is the fact that they've got Richard E. Grant playing the older drag queen, when literally any, any other British drag queen could have done it. Now granted, Richard E. Grant gives the best performance of the film, is absolutely fantastic. But to cast, a straight man to play a character whose entire point in the story is to be a queer elder, and who has an entire song talking about sort of the beginnings of pride in the AIDS epidemic, it just feels very, very hollow, to go for a kind of big name, British actor, instead of going for anyone that's actually, you know, queer, and could bring a sort of truth to that character. And again, sorry, Richard E. Grant did a fantastic job. I best best best performance from from any of the cast, from any of the cast. I'm just frustrated that that came from someone that I don't think should have been cast in the role. You know, you could have cast any older queen, you could have cast anyone that is queer themselves that could have brought that element to the character from having actually experienced it. Which I think in a meta sense, watching the film would have given it more wait, it would have felt like, oh, well, we're not bringing up the AIDS epidemic. We're not bringing up the beginnings of pride in a sort of pandering sense. Look, this is someone that actually experienced it, we're aware and we're doing the work to make sure that this film is about queer people and is by queer people. You know, it just very much feels like pandering given that they they gave that role to someone who is a straight man, specifically a straight man that said that straight people shouldn't take gay roles not too long ago. ROWAN: Yeah, that does seem like it's feels slightly contradictory and it and as well, because it's obviously you don't you know, have to be gay to be a drag queen. But the character is explicitly gay in it as well as like a not necessarily explicitly sad, but it's like very obvious that he's had a partner who's died and like that's part of kind of the implications about his his character. And so yes, that does make sense. So if you were to try and salvage Jamie, is is Jamie salvageable for you? Is this something where you could change some some little bits and make it work? Or do you just think it's not? It's not a vibe, CORRY: I think it's salvageable, but it would have to be quite the overhaul, the--there is a decent story in there, the story of someone who lacks confidence, I think, ultimately, it could be. Okay, if you want to make just one change to make Jamie a much, much better film, I think that you need to change the character of Jamie to not be a selfish person, or have that be his arc, right? He's a selfish person who isn't very confident. And the reason that he's so self-centered, is a defense for that, for that lack of confidence. And through the medium of drag, he finds confidence and realizes that he's that he treats people very poorly, and becomes a better person in the end, who is a well-rounded person who focuses on their art, you know. So you just change the character of Jamie from a little princess to someone that actually really really cares about their craft, you know. ROWAN: I think that they got away with him not didn't get away with it, but I think they were kind of thinking that they got away with him not practicing his craft, because it is a musical and therefore you're like, oh, yeah, he's singing it's dancing. Like that's how it's but that's not like he's he's never singing and dancing in reality, like in the musical to do the practice. CORRY: Yup. ROWAN: There's no like, kind of practice song. There's like the ones on the house with the the other drag queens but it's not like a we're practicing song. It's like we're hyping you up as we do your makeup song, which is maybe could have had a little little edit to it to make it so that he actually does like a reasoning and I was really hoping so they they do add a song in this musical. They change out a song in the original stage musical. CORRY: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: Which is the Legend of Loco Chanel, which is just like a really classic like fantasy sequence song. CORRY: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: That's, you know, very dramatic and is the story of the kind of drag queen persona of Richard E. Grant's character. They've replaced that, as Corry mentioned earlier with a song that's about like queer history, which I thought was a really interesting change and I wish they pushed what Jamie learned from that more. They kind of had like one line where he talks to Priti about it, and then it doesn't necessarily go anywhere else. CORRY: Sorry, can I just that one line is, they had to fight for it, it was really hard for them, it was really, really hard for them. That's that that's the whole vibe of that one-- ROWAN: The vibe. CORRY: --line. ROWAN: And I think like there was an element of like, oh, yeah, actually, this kind of felt like super more modern, young people who-- CORRY: Mmm. ROWAN: --haven't, they've grown up with rights, to to-- CORRY: Yeah. ROWAN: --for lack of a better way of saying it. Like they weren't growing up in in a time when, for example, I was growing up as someone who I'm sure that the TikTok teenagers would refer to as a queer elder, at 29 years old, but I was like growing up, like knowing that I was never going to get married, that I was like-- CORRY: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --only just been allowed to adopt children that I would like all of these things were were happening as I was growing up. And it was there was this moment of like, oh, yeah, actually, that probably is the reaction. Because there there's, if you've not been taught about this stuff in school, and if you've not grown up knowing that you are not equal. At what point do you start to be like, I wonder what it was like back in the day, I wonder when it changed, because you've not necessarily been living through any change yourself. And I wish that they push that further. Like, that seems like such an interesting kind of place to be in for a young person today. CORRY: Yeah, I think I think you've hit the nail on the head there. It really is, it is a very genuine reaction. I think what's quite funny to me, is that the film doesn't seem interested in it. The film itself seems to want to pay lip service to it. They added that song because they want people to talk about the fact that what we're doing right now, they want people to talk about the fact that they included the queer history, they want people to go, oh, wow, this, this struggle of the gays, look at that. I'm an ally, you struggled so much, I feel like that's the intent behind it, rather than to actually highlight anything of note or worth. Because Jamie has a character, you could say that he's maybe spurred on by it, but there was nothing holding him back before before then really. ROWAN: Hmm. CORRY: He he doesn't seem interested in it. And and therefore the film doesn't seem interesting in itself. So it it it is interesting, that that's why it feels like pandering to me, you know. Because they have that song there, but they don't want to cast someone that you know, really kind of fits that role properly. They don't want the main character to do more than give a single line about it, they don't want to explore it, they just want to almost pay lip service to it. And that's why I think that Jamie is a bad film that exists just to exploit to exploit and pander to cis white gay men, and also liberal allies. ROWAN: So Corry, I think we've kind of reached the end of your three hot takes that did-- CORRY: Uh-hmm. ROWAN: --indeed increase in spice as you went along. I'm gonna say this was a absolutely storming out of the gate. First episode three out of three, I'm convinced of all three of them. You made some incredible arguments, especially with that last one where I was I was very much on the fence. And I feel like you've tipped me over. And now I'm I just have this image of like, a better version of that movie that just includes all of the little things that you said to change. And it's like, oh, frustrating. And I think that potentially, like the, the answer to a lot of these kind of hot takes that you've brought in is like just more, just more queer movies with kind of queer people at the helm or involved in the process like thoughtfully included within within it. And then it won't it won't necessarily be no worthy of like, oh, this film has been praised more than it should have been or anything like that, because it it won't be praised more than it should have been. Because there will be alternatives that are better and people won't be kind of having to like it because it's the only thing they've seen that has a a you know British film of that gay teenager in it. It's it's not the the only thing that there can they've got. Congratulations, I do not have any prize for you, except for the knowledge that you have changed my mind. And I believe that's probably prize enough. CORRY: I'll tell you what, this this pride of having one is prized enough for me. ROWAN: Love. Very well done. Excellent. We love a good queer reference at the end of the episode. [54:08] [Outro] ROWAN: Thank you so much for listening. You can follow us on Twitter to keep up to date with everything podcast related. If you enjoyed this episode, please do think about supporting us over on Patreon. Our Patrons really are the backbone of the podcast and in exchange for your support. We have some great tier rewards set up over there. One of the perks on our Patreon is a Queer Movie watch along every last Saturday of the month exclusively for our Patreons, it's very fun. So you know come and join us. The Queer Movie Podcast is edited by Julia Schifini. We're also part of Multitude Productions which has a lot more amazing sibling podcast ours that you should definitely check out. Make sure you follow and subscribe to the podcast so you are primed for our next episode. Thank you so much for listening, and hopefully you will hear from us very soon. Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
We're delivering your urban legends; hot, fresh, and straight from a creepy basement. Or perhaps you'd like a creepy attic door that refuses to close. It's a real buffet of creepiness, served up for you. Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of dead animals, medical horror, human remains, insects, swarms, drug use, earthquakes, and mental health struggles. Housekeeping - MERCH! Get the Mothman Crewneck at spiritspodcast.com/merch! - Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends Dogs on the Trail and Blair Braverman's Twitter account. - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out Multitude's newest member show, Queer Movie Podcast! This is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today! Sponsors - Milk Bar puts unique spins on iconic flavors and is the perfect gift for anyone and everyone in your life. Get $10 off any order of $50 or more by going to milkbarstore.com/SPIRITS. - Skillshare is an online learning community where you can learn—and teach—just about anything. Explore your creativity at Skillshare.com/spirits and get a free trial of Premium Membership. This week Amanda recommends “How to make Flowers with Origami” by Kunal Kadam. - Wildfang is an apparel company featuring clothing that offers clothes that break gender norms in fashion and society. Get $20 off a purchase of $100+, use code SPIRITS20 at wildfang.com. Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com. About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
After a long hiatus (blame Jazza), The Queer Movie Podcast is back, and now part of Multitude. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/ - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd
In this episode of Hannah Witton's Stay Home Special, Hannah played Dirty Talk with Calum McSwiggan, Daniel J Layton, Elle Meadows, Juno Dawson, the Fratocrats, Jazza John, Jack and Dean, Ash Hardell and Daisy Buchanan.
In episode six of the Queer Movie Podcast Rowan Ellis and Jazza John review a Queer sci-fi cult classic.We talk about classic sci-fi, the lack of queer superheroes, and the ozone layer. Enjoy!Be sure to follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/queermoviepodSupport us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast
In this mini episode of the Queer Movie Podcast Rowan Ellis tells Jazza John the truth about Megan Fox and the horrendous sexism of Michael Bay. Strap in - it's a fucked up ride.
In episode five of the Queer Movie Podcast Rowan Ellis and Jazza John review a Queer horror classic.On twitter you guys chose Jennifer’s Body, starring Megan Fox and Amanda Seyfried, with over 70% of the vote. You guys know what you like.
In episode four of the Queer Movie Podcast Rowan Ellis and Jazza John review one of the three LGBTQ+ films up for nomination for the Oscars, 2019.On Twitter you chose The Favourite by Yorgos Lanthimos, getting 65% of the vote, beating Can You Ever Forgive Me and Bohemian Rhapsody. The Favourite stars Olivia Coleman, Emma Stone and Rachel Weisz.We talk female and LGBT representation at the Oscars, lighting and Jazza wanting Rachel Weisz to be his problematic boyfriend.Be sure to follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/queermoviepodSupport us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast
The first full episode of the Queer Movie Podcast, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John.This week we review GBF, the 2013 American teen comedy film directed by Darren Stein and starring Michael J. Willett, Paul Iacono, Sasha Pieterse.Be sure to follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/queermoviepodSupport us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast
Episode two of the Queer Movie Podcast, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. This week, queer Oscar winners!Moonlight is a 2016 American coming-of-age drama film written and directed by Barry Jenkins, based on Tarell Alvin McCraney's unpublished screenplay. It stars Trevante Rhodes, Ashton Sanders and Alex Hibbert alongside Mahershala Ali, Janelle Monáe and Naomie Harris.Be sure to follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/queermoviepodSupport us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast
Episode three of the Queer Movie Podcast, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. This week, queer comedy films!This episode, we review The Birdcage with Robin Williams, the 1996 film and remake of the French musical "La Cage aux Folles," as Rowan likes to remind us (it’s her favourite).We realise that this was a comedy for straight people and bemoan the lack of gratitude of Val.Be sure to follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/queermoviepodSupport us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast
We are professional internet queers Jazza John and Rowan Ellis, and we’re the hosts of the new monthly show “The Queer Movie Podcast”. Every month we’ll be bringing you the best (and worst) of LGBTQ+ cinema, one genre at a time. We’re gay, like, real gay. And we love movies. But too often we’ve seen great queer cinema fall under the radar - and not get the love it deserves. Or we’ve discovered cult classics we wish more people could shout about with us. Or we’ve suffered truly awful LGBTQ+ films that demand a closer look. We’ll be covering all of these and more in the show. Here’s how it works: Each episode we’ll be discussing a film - we’ll be giving you our thoughts - bringing in political and social context, and talking themes, cinematography, soundtracks, casting, and more. How do we choose these films? Well, we’ll be deciding a new genre each month - everything from biopics to high school movies. And for each genre we’ll shortlist 4 movies to choose from - some classics, some lesser known - some we love and some we’ve never seen. Each episode you have the chance to vote on twitter for which film from that chosen genre you want us to discuss. The first episode, for example, is the so awful it’s brilliant genre of “Teen Trash” - we gave you a choice of 4 films in that genre, and you picked GBF. Upcoming genres include: comedies, musicals, documentaries - and, in a very special episode, porn. We’re launching in February 2019 - LGBT History Month in the UK- definitely deliberate - with 3 full length episodes to sink your teeth into - followed by a Oscars 2019 special - and a new episode every month after that. Worth mentioning here the first 3 episodes were recorded last year and therefore will have some out of date references to things like the release of Love, Simon, Rowan’s guilty pleasure trip to Disney World, and Jazza’s obsession with the 2018 winner of Eurovision. Although look out for mini-episodes in between our main releases! If this all seems like your kind of thing - subscribe now to get new episodes direct to your chosen podcast app. And if you like what you hear please rate and review.
Steve is away this week. So, rather than crawling into his cave of loneliness and introversion, Richie decided to reach out to friend of the show, [Jazza John](https://twitter.com/JazzaJohn) to be a guest host. They talk about the landscape of LGBT+ Politics, examples of progressive change, and the work that’s yet to be done. Additional conversation topics include: hedgehog hearing, misinterpreted sexual emoticon, Pope-Watch, WAP Wellies™ [Jazza on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/rhymingwithoranges) [The Right Dishonourable Podcast](http://rightdishonourable.com/) ----- [Follow us on Twitter](https://twitter.com/whatampolitics) [Theme music by Supermarket Love](https://soundcloud.com/supermarketlove) News Theme by Ger Carney
This week on IWSY Bing chats with his guest Jazza about the terrifying potential of health trackers and other medical wearables. Covered in this episode: targeted advertising doesn’t work, the sexiest artificial pancreas on the market, quelle does Quell do? MEET US ON THE MAN MEET US ON THE MAN MEET US ON THE MAN MEET US ON THE MAN MEET US ON THE MAN MEET US ON THE MAN MEET US ON THE MAN MEET US ON THE MAN
Join Beckii from Social Circle, as we unpack the serious issue facing many LGBT+ YouTubers: Restricted Mode. How is this content filter affecting YouTubers who have found their entire channels now hidden? We talk to Rowan Ellis and Jazza John, two prominent LGBT+ content creators and activists. socialcircle.media twitter.com/socialcircle_ facebook.com/socialcircletalent instagram.com/socialcirclemedia email: hello@socialcircle.media
Jazza John joined Hannah on her show this week! They found out how to ‘joy ride', played a hilarious game of Dirty Talk and confessed what makes them gassy.
© 2020-2025 Ivy Podcast Discovery LLC
