Podcast appearances and mentions of rowan ellis

- whoops sorry for the delayed upload! the QMP team are riddled with adhd and got dates mixed up! the schedule will carry on as normal with our next episode going out next week (19/06) -   This week Rowan and Jazza dive into the complex web that is queer family, dicussing Andrew Ahn's new film The Wedding Banquet, starring Bowen Yang, Lily Gladstone and Kelly Marie Tran.  Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like access to our Discord and monthly queer movie watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

Rowan Ellis, Dan Peake and Alec Watson face questions about cloud cover, sporting sons and deity displays. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Duda, Daniel Peake, Andries D.K., Zach, Arys. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2025. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How many times did Jazza and Rowan cry while watching this movie I hear you ask? Well - you'll have to tune in to find out! In this episode we dive into queer loss, grief, and isolation with a look at the heart-wrenching 2023 movie All Of Us Strangers.   Will Jazza and Rowan survive the entire episode without passing away from pure sadness? Only one way to find out! 

Rowan Ellis, Dan Peake and Alec Watson face questions about street stones, European epithets and Lego logistics. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Ólafur Waage, Jared Pike, Mateusz Horbaczewski, Allen, Matan. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2025. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode Jazza and Rowan right the wrong of not covering Conclave for our Oscars 2025 episode. Spoilers from the very beginning, and Jazza learning how to actually pronouns Ralph Fiennes.

Did you have a trans musical crime thriller on your 2024 bingo? This new movie from Jacques Audiard, stars Zoe Saldaña, Karla Sofía Gascón, Selena Gomez, Adriana Paz, Mark Ivanir, and Édgar Ramírez, tells the story of a feared cartel leader who enlists a lawyer to help her disappear and achieve her dream of transitioning into a woman. Listen on to hear Rowan and Jazza's takes on this new release....  Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like access to our Discord and monthly queer movie watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

Hot Takes is back! Our guests bring us some spicy queer TV hot takes - but will they manage to persuade our host Rowan? This episode we're joined by the myth, the legend, writer and comedian Jess Durand, who give us THREE queer Downton Abbey hot takes... and Rowan hasn't seen a single episode... Check out Jess' work here: https://www.instagram.com/lejessdurand/?hl=en Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queermoviepod/ - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

Meet Rowan Ellis who runs XVARO and you could call him your fractional CFO for hire. Rowan doesn't just help companies get their books in order but he helps them with financial strategy. This can often lead to discussion around mergers & acquisitions (M&A) and in the affiliate space, those topics are somewhat normalized as everyone seems to think about exit strategies in affiliation.

Hot Takes is back! Our guests bring us some spicy queer TV hot takes - but will they manage to persuade our host Rowan? This episode we're joined by award-winning author Aleema Omotoni with takes on Our Flag Means Death, Downton Abbey, and The Bear... Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queermoviepod/ - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

This episode Rowan and Jazza cover new trans horror I Saw The TV Glow - about a pair of teens who become fans of a teen fantasy TV series, but also about the horrors of a closeted life and the inherent wasted experience of denying who you are... Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like access to our Discord and monthly queer movie watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

We are joined by professional purple lesbian Ellen Jones as she tell us about about the movies that have impacted her queer identity - from Lady Penelope to Princess Mia!  Find Ellen here: https://ellen-jones.co.uk/ Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

We are joined by lesbian campaigner Ellen Jones, as she tells us about about the movies that have impacted her queer identity - from Lady Penelope to Princess Mia! Find Ellen here: https://ellen-jones.co.uk/ Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

This episode Rowan and Jazza cover Monkey Man, starring and directed by Dev Patel and showcasing some kick-ass hijra! Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

We are joined by (best) friend of the podcast Tazmyn for a particularly choatic episode, as they tell us about about the movies that have impacted their queer identity!  Find Tazmyn here: https://www.instagram.com/teabooksandtazmyn/ Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

This week on the podcast we'll be talking about new queer tennis movie CHALLENGERS starring Zendaya, Mike Faist, and Josh O'Connor and directed by Luca Guadagnino! With SPECIAL GUEST (because rowan is still sick) Ty! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPfeM2tm3T19uPf8pU3VHLg Support independent queer media by joining our patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast/membership This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

Simon Clark, Alec Steele and Rowan Ellis face questions about red resources, radioactive readings and retooled recreations. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Sven van den Bergh, Ryan Neary. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2024. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on the podcast we'll be talking about new gay cowboy movie STRANGE WAY OF LIFE starring Pedro Pascal and Ethan Hawke and directed by Jazza's fave Pedro Almodóvar! Support independent queer media by joining our patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast/membership This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John  

This week on the podcast we'll be talking about new lesbian movie DRIVE-AWAY DOLLS - an action-comedy crime caper starring Margaret Qualley, Geraldine Viswanathan, Beanie Feldstein, Colman Domingo, Pedro Pascal, Bill Camp, and Matt Damon! Support independent queer media by joining our patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast/membership This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John  

Simon Clark, Alec Steele and Rowan Ellis face questions about creative calibration, Canadian cities and crafty cataloguing. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: David Lyford-Tilley, Geraint Gough, Shiro, David Teresi. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2024. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hot Takes is back! Our guests bring us some spicy queer movie hot takes - but will they manage to persuade our host Rowan? This episode we're joined by the creative team behind new queer movie "Growing Pains": Catherine Argyrople, Mariana Fabian, and Deanna Tarraza - and they bought their A-game, with takes on mean lesbians, questioning characters, and who should have topped in Brokeback Mountain... Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queermoviepod/ - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

[REUPLOADED WITHOUT AUDIO ISSUES!] Super queer animed movies are few and far between - but a genre to explore nonetheless... and today we're tackling the Oscar-nominated action-adventure-fantasy tale of questionable villain - NIMONA! Support independent queer media by joining our patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast/membership This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John We are edited by Corry!  

This episode we're joined by Trevor Anderson, director of the new queer coming-of-age fim "Before I Change My Mind", to find out the movies that had an impact on his queer identity. Check out the trailer here: https://youtu.be/WcBwrD-NlVA Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queermoviepod/ - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

We are joined by author of queer YA romance "The No-Girlfriend Rule" Christen Randall - who tells us about the movies that have impacted their queer identity! Find Christen and their writing here: https://www.bychristenrandall.com Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

Mike is joined by someone who has never consumed any PJO content (Rowan Ellis) and someone who has only seen the second movie and has a 10-year-old who watched the show (Kyle Bandujo) to cover the full spectrum of audience and break down all things Season 1 of Percy Jackson and the Olympians! Topics include: the second movie, Professional Percy Jackson Watchers, improv knowledge, narcs, delayed gratification, kids programming, Parks and Recreation, Back to the Future, book context, Black Sails storytelling, John Wick's suit, Will Ferrell, The Onion, kids reading books, Pixar, and more! TNO LIVE IN DENVER, PHX, AND NC: www.thenewestolympian.com/live  — Find The Newest Olympian Online — • Website: www.thenewestolympian.com • Patreon: www.thenewestolympian.com/patreon • Twitter: www.twitter.com/newestolympian • Instagram: www.instagram.com/newestolympian • Facebook: www.facebook.com/newestolympian • Reddit: www.reddit.com/r/thenewestolympian • Merch: www.thenewestolympian.com/merch — Production — • Creator, Host, Producer, Social Media, Web Design: Mike Schubert • Editor: Sherry Guo • Music: Bettina Campomanes and Brandon Grugle • Art: Jessica E. Boyd — About The Show — Is Percy Jackson the book series we should've been reading all along? Join Mike Schubert as he reads through the books for the first time with the help of longtime PJO fans to cover the plot, take stabs at what happens next, and nerd out over Greek mythology. Whether you're looking for an excuse to finally read these books, or want to re-read an old favorite with a digital book club, grab your blue chocolate chip cookies and listen along. New episodes release on Mondays wherever you get your podcasts!

We are joined by brain box YouTuber extraordinaire, Jordan Harrod to talk about the media that made her queer. We talk about Kim Possible, fan fiction and Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Find Jordan on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/c/jordanharrod Head to https://www.squarespace.com/queermovie to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code queermovie! Thanks to new sponsor Ravensburger - check their puzzles out here: https://www.ravensburger.co.uk/en-GB Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This was recorded while SAG AFTRA and the WGA were striking in 2023, we support the striking workers as without them, we would have no media to build a podcasting empire around. Find Mollie at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6jZvmJ7QJ_LAH-DpMpLf2Q https://twitter.com/EnglishSimmer https://www.twitch.tv/englishsimmer This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

Rowan Ellis, Katie Steckles and Dani Siller ('Escape This Podcast') face questions about periodic poles, silly signs and iconic icons. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://www.lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Jake Mellor, Christophe Latinne, James Hamilton, Patrick Lind, Dallas. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd 2023. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In a special guest episode we are joined by Mollie, The English Simmer, to talk about how the likes of The Sims, Pokemon, Life is Strange and Animal Crossing were formative gaming experiences for her growing up. Head to https://www.squarespace.com/queermovie to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code queermovie! Thanks to new sponsor Ravensburger - check their puzzles out here: https://www.ravensburger.co.uk/en-GB Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! This was recorded while SAG AFTRA and the WGA were striking in 2023, we support the striking workers as without them, we would have no media to build a podcasting empire around. Find Mollie at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6jZvmJ7QJ_LAH-DpMpLf2Q https://twitter.com/EnglishSimmer https://www.twitch.tv/englishsimmer This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

Rowan Ellis, Katie Steckles and Bill Sunderland ('Escape This Podcast') face questions about martial arts mastery, boating back stories and motoring materials. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://www.lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Steve, Mike Salter, Landon Kryger, Patrick S. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2023. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Let's talk about the devisive Sam Levinson "black comedy" thriller ASSASSINATION NATION! Head to https://www.squarespace.com/queermovie to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code queermovie! Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! Plus check out quality queerwear company NerdyKeppie... use coupon code "queermovie" for twenty percent off your first purchase! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

We were joined in the studio this episode by our wonderful friend (and queer music journalist) Taylor Behnke to talk about the songs that made her bi - from the gender exploration of scene kid subcultures, to muscians she only knew were queer years after first listening to them... Head to https://www.squarespace.com/queermovie to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain  using code queermovie! Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! Check out Taylor's stuff here: https://www.taylorbehnke.com/ This episode was recording during the SAG/AFTRA and WGA strikes of 2023. Without the labor of the writers and actors currently on strike, many of the movies/shows we cover here wouldn't exist. QMP stands in full solidarity with those on strike - you can donate to the strike fund here: https://entertainmentcommunity.org/  This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

I really hope this helps. Another book to help as a resource is; “Here and queer”written by Rowan Ellis. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thehoneypot/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thehoneypot/support

This week we're joined by Becky Albertalli - author of Simon vs the Homosapien Agenda (aka Love, Simon) - to talk about influential queer TV, movies, and characters in her life! Plus what it was like feeling forced to come out in the public eye... Head to https://www.squarespace.com/queermovie to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain  using code queermovie! Support the podcast on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast This episode was recorded prior to the Hollywood strikes - without the labor of the writers and actors currently on strike, many of the movies/shows we cover here wouldn't exist. QMP stands in full solidarity with those on strike - you can donate to the strike fund here: https://entertainmentcommunity.org/  This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini

Let's talk about the iconic sapphic British rom com -  Imagine Me and You! Head to https://www.squarespace.com/queermovie to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain  using code queermovie! Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! Plus check out quality queerwear company NerdyKeppie... use coupon code "queermovie" for twenty percent off your first purchase! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd

Hot Takes is back! Headed by our very own Rowan Ellis and with guest Amanda The Jedi, movie commentator and critic, and Twilight superfan! Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. Kradl is a new podcast discovery platform where you can discover hidden gems and independent podcasts - check them out here! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd

Rowan Ellis, author of Here and Queer: A Queer Girl's Guide to Life(Frances Lincoln Children's Books, 2022), speaker, and LGBTQI+ advocate who creates content around queer history, pop culture, and activism, discusses the history of queer representation in media and what it looks like today in 2023 as LGBTQ+ listeners call in with their favorite queer media as well as movie and TV characters they think should have been queer.

In which we talk about the gay Disney move which flew under our radar until a teacher in Florida got investigated by the PTA for showing it to her students.  Take the Multitude survey: https://iteratehq.com/multitude/6463bbb5d58a250001ec8ab2  Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. Plus check out quality queerwear company NerdyKeppie... use coupon code "queermovie" for twenty percent off your first purchase! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd

We're finally covering this cult classic starring Wesley Snipes, Patrick Swayze, and John Leguizamo as three New York City drag queens who embark on a road trip. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. Plus check out quality queerwear company NerdyKeppie... use coupon code "queermovie" for twenty percent off your first purchase! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd

This week, it's Rumpelstiltskin. Amanda reflects on pre-industrial revolution girl bossing, Julia starts singing her social security number into the breeze, and how parent's need to learn better lies to brag about their children.   Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of death, forced marriage, threat of violence, revolution, anti-semitism, kidnapping, body horror, racism, blood, and illness.     Housekeeping - Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends The Super Mario Bros. Movie - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out the Queer Movie Podcast - a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today!   Sponsors - BetterHelp is an online therapy service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits - Tavour delivers craft beer right to your doorstep. Get $10 off after your first order of $25 or more when you use code “spirits”.   Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com.   About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.

Hot Takes is back! Headed by our very own Rowan Ellis and with guest Eleanor Medhurst, the glamorous lesbian fashion historian from Dressing Dykes. This is a super fun one. This episode was sponsored by .gay, the domain supporting our community. Head over to queermoviepodcast.gay to get a FREE .gay domain name of your choice for your own website or brand for 1-year. We are also happy to be sponsored by the new book from Marie Blanchet, Skin Deep. Want some supernatural queer happy endings? Check out https://blanchetmarie.com/en/books/skin-deep/. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd  

Let's talk about (spoiler alert) Jazza's favourite movie of the year (and maybe of all time) - as we look at parallel universes, googly eyes, and lesbian supervillains! Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd   TRANSCRIPT: JAZZA:  Hello, everyone. Just before we jump into the main episode today, I want to thank our two top-level patrons, Jennifer, and Toby, who are supporting us on the rainbow parent tier, which is absolutely bloody amazing. Do you want to join them, head over to Patreon and you don't have to donate as much as they do, but we'd really appreciate anything that you can give to us. More about Patreon coming a little bit later. On with the episode, my darlings.  [theme] JAZZA:  Welcome to the Queer Movie Podcast celebrating the best— ROWAN:  —And worst— JAZZA:  In LGBTQ plus cinema, one glorious genre at a time.  ROWAN:  I'm Rowan Ellis. JAZZA:  And I'm Jazza John. ROWAN:  Each episode we discuss a movie from a different genre of cinema.  JAZZA:  This episode's genre is— JAZZA AND ROWAN: Queer Oscars 2023. ROWAN:  So in sync, so coordinated. JAZZA:  Yeah, a 100%. The—the yearly tradition of us doing the Queer Oscar stuff. So today, we're going to be talking about the best bloody movie ever made by the Daniels, Kwan, and Scheinert. And starring the best actor in the history of humanity, Michelle Yeoh, and nominated for 11 Oscars, I think. Everything Everywhere All at Once. ROWAN:  Not to spoil what Jazza thought of the movie or anything. But before we start— JAZZA:  It's my favorite movie, it's my favorite movie. I'm so fucking excite— after like the last three movies that we've done, I'm so excited to speak about something that I actually genuinely adore. I love this film. Spoiler.  ROWAN:  But before we stuff Employee of the Month awards up our asses, so we can fight Michelle herself. Jazza, what's the gayest thing you've done since the last episode? JAZZA:  So um, hi everybody, I live in New York. And I— ROWAN:  Oh, here we go again. JAZZA:  Ran out of my NHS-prescribed prep at the end of last year. And so I have been having to live like it's the 90s, oh, my God. And I just—for the first time, like a true American, which I'm not. But like a true American resident picked up my first prescription of prep from CVS. ROWAN:  You— did you have to pay American money for it? Or do—do you have an insurance? JAZZA:  No, I get it on my health insurance. ROWAN:  Oooh, look at you! JAZZA:  I got a full fe—although, can I just show you the documentation that I have to read—  ROWAN:  Yeah. JAZZA:  —when I take this. ROWAN:  I'll do an audio [2:33] Okay, here's the audio description. What's basically happened is Jazza has just come onto the webcam that I can see. And they've essentially like, you know, one of those comedy scrolls that just keeps rolling all the way down the throne room in some kind of fantasy comedy movie, that's exactly what's just—just been displayed in front of me. That is like, a world map to scale, that is so big. Have you read any of it?  JAZZA:  Yeah, well, I had to try and because, like, I know that, like what you're meant to do to take for it. But I wanted to like double check, because this is American prep, and maybe it's different. So I found the instructions of dosage and how to take it, and it says, take dosage exactly as your prescriber told you. ROWAN:  Okay. JAZZA:  Fucking useless.  ROWAN:  What—oh, did your prescriber not tell you? JAZZA:  No. But I have texted him and said, is it like normal prep and we'll find out when he texts me back, so that'd be good.  ROWAN:  Wow. JAZZA:  What's the gayest thing you did? ROWAN:  Before we go into the gayest thing, I really feel like this podcast is educational. It's very vitally important, very serious, not at all. But in cases, anyone listening who doesn't know this, if you take two or more prescriptions monthly, and you're on the NHS, like through the NHS, get yourself a prepaid certificate, because it will be cheaper. And then every single prescription you get past, I think it's literally like you have to have one and a half prescriptions a month, it will be cheaper, and every single one, it won't cost you any more money. And then when you go in and they say do you pay for prescriptions, you get to be like, I already did baby, I pre-paid. Because I didn't know that until very recently. And I've been taking two prescriptions a month for many years and didn't realize I was paying too much for them. That wasn't the gayest thing I've done though. Um. JAZZA:  [laughs] ROWAN:  What? JAZZA:  Isn't it, making—making healthcare more easy to—easier to navigate and more accessible? [4:24] ROWAN:  [4:25] that's pretty gay. No, that I actually did my first in-person talk, and since the pandemic— JAZZA:  Oh yeah, this is cool. ROWAN:  I used to do a lot of them. And I've done some in person like hosting stuff and things like that, but mostly it's been online. But I went to essentially like a organization where a bunch of like solicitors and lawyers, and legal organizations kind of have joined forces so that, that LGBT group is—has some has—has actual members and it isn't just like one person at one law firm. And I did a little talk and I am very, very proud of it, it went very, very well. And I actually think that talk is very good. It's basically about the—the parallels of the moral panic from the 80s around gay people to the trans panic now. Yeah, a lot of people came to ask me about it afterward, I think including some people who hadn't necessarily been to abreast of the situation with like the trans panic. And who had some very thoughtful questions, and I think definitely was making them think, which is, you know, what we love to do. So, If anyone wants me to come and talk, basically be very depressing for an hour, I now apparently do that professionally. But that was my gay [5:34] JAZZA:  Don't sell yourself [5:35]. If anybody wants like a really informed and provocative discussion or talk to bring to your workplace, then please get in touch with Rowan Ellis because she's one of the [5:45] ROWAN:  [5:48] JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  Oh, don't think I won't do it, I'll do it. I'm sorry, that was a threat for some reason to you. Yeah. No, that's—that was, that's pretty gay, so that's me. JAZZA:  Well done. Proud of you.  ROWAN:  Thank you. [theme] JAZZA:  So anybody who is new here, here's how we're going to do it. So first, we're going to give a little bit of context around how gay the Oscars are this year in 2023. And I am just going to carve out a little bit of time to do some gushing around how I think Michelle Yeoh is the best person on the face of the planet, how she's my bitch, and that I die for her. I watched Star Trek Discovery for Michelle Yeoh. ROWAN:  That's dedication. We will be spoiling this movie, so we would encourage you to watch it before listening to the rest of the episode because it really is very excellent. And some of these movies that we review, were like, no, don't bother, just listen to us describe what happens during the plot. But for this one, do go away and watch it and then come back.  JAZZA:  Yeah. To be clear, I think this is the best film ever made. So without further ado, let's put everything on a bagel, despair, report cards, salt, and this review of the movie, Everything Everywhere All at Once. [theme] ROWAN:  So this year we had a few options actually when we were looking at what maybe we wanted to do for— JAZZA:  No we didn't, we were always going to do this— ROWAN:  Okay, well— JAZZA:  [7:12] ROWAN:   —hypotechnically.  JAZZA:  Yeah, yeah.  ROWAN:  There would [7:13] JAZZA:  If were gonna pretend. ROWAN:  So obviously Everything Everywhere All at Once, Tar, which was the film with Cate Blanchett that we didn't enjoy, that we have already reviewed. So if you did enjoy that or not, check out the podcast on that, already out. There's also The Whale, which has earned three nominations, I think, including for Brendan Frazier's performance of a gay man, spiraling out over grief after the death of his partner. And then technically Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery, [7:44] JAZZA:  Oh sure. Yeah. ROWAN:  For Best Adapted Screenplay because allegedly Ben was gay. And we also have already done that. So realis—oh, I think like, again, technically like Lady Gaga got a nomination for the theme song to Top Gun Maverick, and you know. JAZZA:  Love the Top Gun Maverick, already one of the gayest fucking movies on the planet without actually being gay. Actually did get an Oscar nomination, we could have covered it. I love that because of Lady fucking Gaga of all people. ROWAN:  Yeah. Their only— JAZZA:  It would have been quite poetic actually. Should we go back and just do Top Gun? ROWAN:  I mean, yeah, maybe it's like hey, here's a little sneak little—little cheeky episode where it's just like gay, the gay subtext genre. That is technically a genre, I guess?  JAZZA:  Hey, watch this space.  ROWAN:  And then there's also some ones that are maybe lesser known. So one of the best international feature, Close, which is from Belgium,  follows two teenage boys who have this very close friendship and then it get there like a lot of drama happens after some of their schoolmates sort of notice how close they are. And there's like a rift forms between them, which I haven't seen. And it also haven't seen after [8:48] which seems to be ambiguously gay. Where some people are like, it's very obvious that the main character is gay. And some people are like, it's—it's not, no one picked up on it, blah, blah, blah. So it's like, that was also a possibility of [9:00] this movie that everyone is obsessed with. And that I do need to see, but I need to be emotionally ready for it because apparently, it's going to tear my heart out.  JAZZA:  Great.  ROWAN:  Absolutely decimated. And so yeah, I think that the only one that we haven't covered that we might do on the podcast seems to be The Whale. But I literally—I mentioned it not to say that we shouldn't do Everything Everywhere All at Once. I just mentioned it as like, oh, we could also do the work. Like I hadn't even finished typing to send the message. Before Jazza was like absolutely the fuck not, we're doing this movie. We're not doing any other movie ever again. Only this movie.  JAZZA:  I think I might have threatened to quit.  ROWAN:  Yeah. [9:35] Okay. Good luck [9:37] Rowan. So yeah, essentially, we didn't really have a choice and by we, I mean me. But I'm fine with that. I—I um have a confession though.  JAZZA:  Go on. ROWAN:  I started watching this movie a little while ago. And I just didn't finish. I just got like— I mean I've finished it now. To be clear, I'm coming into this podcast— JAZZA:  Oh my gosh! ROWAN:  —not having watched the movie. JAZZA:  Well, you did it with Rose, so. ROWAN:  I basically got to the fanny pack fight scene, but I just like wasn't in the frame of mind to— I don't know like the ADHD was really ADHD. And I was like, I can't concentrate on anything, let alone this long movie. JAZZA:  You didn't even get that far. ROWAN:  I know. JAZZA:  The fanny pack [10:18] ROWAN:  It's really near the beginning, but my brain was just like, I can't concentrate on anything longer than about two minutes long. And I wanted to do it justice. Like I knew that so many people love this film, and I wanted to give it a good go. So I was like, I'm not just going to try and push through it. I want to actually enjoy it. So I am very happy that you forced me to watch it, because it's a very good movie. JAZZA:  Wait, had you not finished it until we were going to do this episode? ROWAN:  Yeah. I literally watched it for the episode.  JAZZA:  Oh, my God. I'm—you're welcome. ROWAN:  Your—again. Again, Jazza the way you say welcome absolutely destroys me, but— JAZZA:  Welcome. ROWAN:  Absolutely not. So basically, but I'll show you because I don't know why I thought I would be able to watch this movie. I was like, maybe I need something different to my brain. So I was like, maybe I'll just paint while I'm doing it, just like a little cute painting. But then I forgot that I had to make notes for this podcast. So I was like, trying to write notes, and then also paint. So I got like, not far through the painting whatsoever. I just got the under-the-base thing done, which is like, this is— JAZZA:  Oh that's cute. ROWAN:  —the scene where she like cracks in three, and it's like any office building. JAZZA:  Oh yeah. ROWAN:  But like none of the actual features are in, so it just looks really like blobs. But I will try and finish it by the time this goes out, so we can put it on our social media because you know, we should probably upload there, you know. JAZZA:  Hey [11:39] ROWAN:  Put things on our socials. JAZZA:  Really great for engagement. ROWAN:  Yeah, everyone loves a good [11:44] So yeah, that is essentially my context, is that the queer movies we've done, like I've done like a—together, we did a whole video about the quick history of the Oscars on my channel before, we've talked about the kind of Oscars in general in other episodes of the podcast, so I wanted to keep it just to like what's going on specifically this year, which seems to be—I would say that from the movies that I've seen, that are nominated, this one it feels like— like Tar, for example, and Knives Out and things, the sexuality is not necessarily a key part of the plot. It could be that the character like isn't queer, and it would have been reasonably similar. Whereas I think that the queer element of this film is like important to the plot. Like the— the fact— JAZZA:  Yeah 100%. ROWAN:  — that she's queer is important to what's going on here. Which I think is very—it's going to be interesting to have a little chat about. Would you like to do your context, which is basically just you talking about your [12:40] JAZZA:  Michelle Yeoh? Yeah, my girl Michelle, I'm—every gay kind of has a that one female artist, that they will die for generally. Mine in the music sphere, Shakira, and in the action sphere, Michelle Yeoh. Michelle Yeoh could probably be credited with me deciding to learn Chinese and move to China. I'm not even joking. I first— I remember watching her—the first time I ever watched her was in the James Bond movie that she was in, which was I Think Tomorrow Never Dies?  And since then, have just like, completely been obsessed with her, obsessed with her career. She went from—well before then, she started off as like a beauty queen in Malaysia, then did an advert with Jackie Chan in the 1980s because, of course, every East Asian woman in the 1980s did an advert with the Jackie Chan, they were advertising watches. Then she from that ended up being an action star and a huge star in Hong Kong in her own— right Hong Kong being the center of the movie industry in Asia. So she was in movies like when [13:51] Yes, madam, and was already this huge, huge star. She was catapulted into international stardom through James Bond and then ended up doing the Ang Lee film, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was in stuff like Memoirs of a Geisha, went on to do have supporting roles in movies like Crazy Rich Asians. And just— has just kind of like grown into playing a lot of these matriarch roles. She has a dance background and so has traditionally done all of her own stunts and all of her fight scenes, which is the same for a lot of the stuff that is in this movie. And I just think she's really fucking badass. She's learned whole languages in order to play roles. Before the 2000s she couldn't speak any Mandarin, she learned it for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and now does this whole movie, this whole movie Everything Everywhere All at Once in Mandarin, just full interviews in Mandarin. She learnt Burmese when she played Aung San Suu Kyi in The Lady hasn't aged very well that movie, but that's crazy. And she didn't speak any Cantonese before she broke into Hong Kong cinema. Like this woman is a absolutely fucking phenomenal. And she was educated at least part of her life in London, so we can claim her, she's one of us. And that's all. I love her. ROWAN:  That's very adorable.  JAZZA:  Thank you. ROWAN:  Someone, someone, someone send this to Michelle. JAZZA:  Oh, I—you know that embarrassing interaction I had with Baldwin Yang, I feel like Michelle Yeoh is one of the only other people who I would like physically combust in front of. I would not be able to handle it. ROWAN:  I love that. Yeah, we'll keep you at a distance. I'll be— if I ever see her in the street and you're with me, I'm taking, I'm like gonna rugby tackle you to the floor. I'll be like, no, Jazza shield your eyes. Like— JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  —I feel like it would just have you'd be having some kind of like angelic experience, it would burn the very soul out of you, so don't worry, I've got your back.  JAZZA:  Thank you. And just to close on one final thing before we dive into the plot of this movie. She's the first East Asian woman to be nominated for an Oscar Best Actress. And Stephanie Hsu is the first East Asian woman to be nominated as a Best Supporting Actress. This movie is groundbreaking. And yeah, just again, before we go in and spoil the plot if you haven't watched it, you have to, it'll change your life. And you'll cry a lot. If you're anything like me, you'll probably cry a lot. ROWAN:  I think she feels like a shoo-in for Best Actress.  JAZZA:  Who's she against? ROWAN:  Cate Blanchett. JAZZA:  [16:26] ROWAN:  For Tar. JAZZA:  I rec— so I will be. I can see Cate Blanchett winning, and I will be furious.  ROWAN:  Yeah. I think that— I think that's the most likely thing if Michelle doesn't, because the other ones it's other Michelle, for the fave woman's Michelle Williams, which you know, whatever. It's a film, it's fine, but like I feel like there's been better. Movies about movies and stuff. I think it's only because it's Spielberg talking about himself that anyone cares.  JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  It's Andrea Riseborough for To Leslie, which is like the one everyone jokes about how no one actually knows. That everyone was like what the hell even is that film? When did it even come out? What is it, who cares? Ana De Armas for Blonde, where the hell did that nomination come from? Absolutely unhinged behavior from the Academy, and then Michelle. So I feel like she—she— if there's any justice in the world, will win it. JAZZA:  And also she's—she's like a has a long decorated career, everywhere else apart from the Oscars. And the Oscars generally likes taking these opportunities to award— rewards people who have been such items in the industry, but maybe have never had the— the role has kind of put them in the contention for an award like this.  ROWAN:  Yeah. JAZZA: I think she will win. I think the best picture win is less of a shoo-in. ROWAN:  Screenplay, I think is going to be the contest there is going to be with Banshees. And I think supporting actress—supporting actress Stephanie might be in. I feel like the only one that might—you know actually no because even though it is Angela Bassett, it's for Black Panther, which won't—It won't get it because it's a superhero movie. And the other two for The Whale and Banshees, like the— it's—they weren't big enough roles, I don't think. So it's Stephanie against Jamie Lee Curtis for the same movie, and Stephanie was simply better. So I'm really hoping that we have some— not just like first nominations, but first wins to go with it in the same year. JAZZA:  I'd love it if Mitski beat Lady Gaga as well. [18:30] ROWAN: I love that for you. Right. Should we get into the plot of this movie then? JAZZA:  Yeah, let's do it. [theme] ROWAN:  Okay, so the movie begins with our hero Evelyn doing her taxes, which apparently was the summary of the movie pre-trailers, and even when the trailers were going out because I didn't want to spoil the movie at all. What it was we're going to be before the trailer dropped. So it was just a woman does her taxes was the description on IMDb for a long time, which I think is hysterical. And we essentially get this extremely chaotic scene where we're introduced to a bunch of issues that are going on in her life and complications, including the fact that she's not doing her taxes very well essentially, is one thing that she is, and it kind of hurt her husband on this laundromat which might not be doing too well, business-wise. She has annoying customers, her father is there and— JAZZA:  He's just arrived from China.  ROWAN:  —just arrive from China. And her daughter is gay, has a girlfriend called Becky. The grandfather doesn't know about. And so the daughter has come to basically demand that hey, I just want to tell grand like I don't want to lie to him. I want to tell him what's going on and the fact that Becky is my actual girlfriend, not just like a friend. And she has a very sweet husband that she kind of does—they have this very practice dance where she will like bang the ceiling and he'll know that he needs to come down and but he—there's also slight difficulties in communication. So the husband has like moved a bunch of the clothes for the customers upstairs, so they're not where they should be. And so it's—it's both very like synchronized dance almost situation going on, but with utter chaos because there are things that aren't quite fitting together, which, you know, it's kind of the vibe metaphorically and literally throughout this movie with this— with her life and with the family. JAZZA:  This is the first scene so I don't want to spend too much time on it. But I adore it so much for a couple of reasons. One is the swirling chaos that you talk about, and that I love you [20:37]  describing it as a dance because I've never really thought of it like that. It's also one of the first times I can remember seeing the Chinglish kind of like flow of their language going with like dipping in and out of Mandarin and English, as the two of them are speaking depending on kind of like what they're talking about. When they're talking about external things, so things like their taxes, when Stephanie's girlfriend is coming, and all of those kinds of things, they'll often dip into English. And then when they're talking about their relationship, the fact that Gong Gong is there and all of that kind of stuff, a lot of it is in Mandarin. And they just kind of like that's a part of like bilingual families that I've never really seen before, maybe in kind of like some Spanish media, but definitely not with Chinese, and I love being able to see that. And secondly, I want to ask you, what do you think about the theory that Evelyn has ADHD? ROWAN:  I didn't see that theory. I've not seen that theory before. Until literally I was reading just like the Wikipedia page and stuff to make sure that I hadn't missed any of the plot points while I was like making notes. And it was like yeah, themes, including ADHD. And I was like, huh, interesting. JAZZA:  I think there's a couple of reads of it. One is, this is the modern world that we're in, where we are distracted and having to pay attention to and having to care about things that we don't actually care about. Stuff like taxes and laundry is like the line that goes through the movie. But you can also read it as the this is Evelyn trying to deal with all of the spinning plates, and a mind that is dealing with ADHD. And I love that reading of her, of kind of like, this is how she is trying to kind of like function through the world. And from my experience with ADHD anyway, it feels very—when I'm having like bad days, it feels like this opening scene. And I think that it's portrayed with the editing style and with her acting incredibly, incredibly well. And I'd like this as a reading for the character too. I don't think it's ever like explicitly mentioned, I think it's—I think it is just a theory unless one of the Daniels has mentioned it, ROWAN:  I can definitely see that either way to be honest. I like that. Also, something I think is interesting is I watch everything with subtitles on because otherwise I wouldn't—as someone who doesn't speak anything but English, I wouldn't have noticed the fact that it's both Cantonese and Mandarin, depending on which member the family she's speaking to. So her father speaks Cantonese, and then she speaks Mandarin to Waymond. And I think that's also really interesting these like specific differences, cultural differences, even within this family that I think from the outside people would see as like one distinct group, as like this is a specifically a Chinese-American story. And I like the fact that you've got these elements which are brought in by the people who worked on the film to ensure that it doesn't become something which is sort of the homogenized version of the Asian-American story that might be told by people outside of that group.  JAZZA:  Yeah. It feels so real. It felt so real and really kind of like, it like [23:42] I'm not Asian- American, but I have been around these spaces at all, and it felt incredibly real. Like even though—when Stephanie's character [23:52] ROWAN:  [23:53] Steph's character. JAZZA:  Yeah. When Joy—when Joy as a character is introduced and we see Gong Gong for the first time, hug her granddad for the first time. And she's trying to kind of like get out. She—she understands Chinese, but she's trying to get out like the introduction to Becky and the distain with which her granddad just goes, your Chinese is really getting worse and worse every time I see you. And I've heard—I've heard older members of kind of like, I'm older generations of families, like say that about the other younger generations and like the disdain, like all of those interactions just feel really, really real. ROWAN:  Also, the fact that Joy is— Joy is trying to—it is Evelyn's daughter it's trying to tell her grandfather that Becky has a girlfriend, and she suddenly realizes that she doesn't know the exact version of friend— JAZZA:  Doesn't know how to say it, yeah. ROWAN:  —girlfriend like which again just feels very real. That idea of like if you're someone who's got language for certain things in your life, and like you speak about certain things to your family. I think that's quite telling that that's not necessarily a word that she has at the tip of her tongue to be able to say in Cantonese. That, to me was like very interesting. And then we also have essentially, the end of this interaction is that Evelyn interrupts in Cantonese to describe Becky as a good friend rather than a girlfriend. So deliberately interrupting her daughter, to cover up her daughter's queerness for his grandfather. That she says, you know, he's old, we don't want him to, you know, this would— this would be too difficult for him to deal with. JAZZA:  They keep on talking about how it's going to kill him, [25:24] ROWAN:  [25:25] JAZZA:  [25:25] he's already flown from China for the Chinese New Year [25:27] ROWAN:  It's really difficult. And then essentially Joy leaves really upset. JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  And goes to get in the car to leave. And Evelyn has clearly got this parental love within her that she just cannot express in a way that her daughter understands.  JAZZA:  And so just says that she's fat.  ROWAN:  Yeah, she's like, you need to eat healthier, you're getting fat, which you can understand. And you can tell that it's—it's—she's not trying to say it to be awful. But obviously for Joy without the context of like, we've kind of been in Evelyn's point of view, and we get from the expression on— on her face that she can't just say, I love you so much, I'm sorry. So she has to just say—she's trying to say I care about you by being like, I've noticed something about you. I want you to take care of yourself like this is the way I show I care. But for Joy, she very much just hears, you're fat, you're doing things wrong, this is bad, you're bad. And so we see immediately this like real kind of disconnects between the two of them. This gap in generations, and language and culture, etc, etc. And we just essentially have this whole very chaotic first scene that leads into her meeting with internal revenue, where things are not going to get any easier for her, put it that way. JAZZA:  Yeah, where Jamie Lee Curtis is her IRS agent. So when they go up into the elevator, we see that Waymond has divorce papers with him. And it's kind of like looking at this other older couple who are very affectionate. And you can see him lamenting the fact that he doesn't have that with Evelyn. Going up in the elevator, the elevator is very slow. And then Waymond shuts down opens up again and all of a sudden is like hiding from the cameras and whatever. And he's been Raccacoonie, and he's being puppeted by Waymond from another universe, the Alpha Verse. ROWAN:  Alpha Waymond. JAZZA:  Alpha Waymond. ROWAN:  And it does the classic, I've taken over your body from another universe thing of being like, you're in grave danger. I don't have much time, here are some instructions. I can't say any more. Very, very classic call to adventure vibes, where it's like, I love a mysterious call to adventure like that. It all depends on you kind of energy to it, which is something that's really fun about this movie for me is it's a lot of like follows that process of the call to adventure. The refusal of the call, like all of this stuff that's very Monomyth is very Joseph Campbell, it's very much how Hollywood works. But then there is just such absurdism going on alongside it, and such bizarre stuff that—kind of by its nature, because we find out later that within this multiverse that's happening, that alpha Waymond is from part of the ways in which you're able to jump through the multiverse is by doing something that's statistically bizarre and unlikely. And so the absurdism sort of is written into these small moments of the script, as well as the overall story. But I just really like how it plays with the classic call to adventure, you know, this Alpha Waymond has said, not, this is your destiny, and she refuses it at first. And it's like, no, it's not me, I'm not the person to do this, and then gradually gets pulled into it. But it has these twists to it, which I really, really loved. JAZZA:  And I—I just want to ask, what—what was your favorite like anomaly that somebody had to do? Apart from having to sit on an employee of the month award and then fighting with a [28:50] ROWAN:  I'll tell you my least fucking favorite, Jazza. JAZZA:  Yeah, go on. ROWAN:  Giving yourself four paper cuts. [28:56] JAZZA:  Yeah. The paper-cut one is horrible. ROWAN:  I could not watch that. I could not watch her, it's literally the worst thing I can possibly think of, so I don't think I even now could name you a single one that— that—oh, do you know what else I hated, Waymond, eating chapstick. JAZZA: Yeah, it was sooo— ROWAN:  I hated it so much. JAZZA:  It looked so waxy, and— ROWAN:  But yes. Anyway, so basically all that to say, because I realized I've jumped ahead to like, by the way, there's a multiverse. Get with it people, you should have seen this movie so you should already know about—yes, we meet Jamie Lee Curtis as audit lady, Deirdre is the name? JAZZA:  Deirdre, yes, Deirdre.  ROWAN:  Who is I've just written in my notes, very mean and has butt plugs in the background question mark, question mark. Because I spotted them I was like— JAZZA:  Chekov's— ROWAN:  Are those relevant, like Chekov's butt plug? JAZZA:  Chekov's butt plug. ROWAN:  But essentially Evelyn, who has heard from Alpha Waymond these instructions that she needs to do during this meeting, gets completely overwhelmed. And just I think at the point of like, I have nothing to lose, looks at the end structions and carries them out, which essentially is to swap her shoes over to the other feet to really, really think about the janitor's closet that he wants her to go into. And basically, she finds herself there somehow. What—what in the science fiction? And the screen at this point cracks, and I think it's really interesting to know a little bit of con—a little bit of a behind the scenes info. Apparently, the effects for this movie, which are stunning, were done by like five people. JAZZA:  Yeah, they also had a shoot time of like, of only, I think it was less than a month? [30:36] ROWAN:  That is wild, that is truly wild. Because this one I feel like is where we start to get the sort of the Sci-Fi element the effects, special effects type element with a skink. The screen cracks, and we sort of realized that she is both in the closet now, but also still in front of Jamie Lee Curtis, who I guess from now on, I'm just going to refer to [30:54] as Jamie Lee Curtis. And we get this explanation that there is, you know, from Alpha Waymond, evil spreading throughout the multiverse, it's only you who can help us. While simultaneously getting the stakes of the normal everyday plot, which is that the laundromat could be repossessed, they could lose everything in that timeline. And it's a very stressful scene, because it's essentially, her potentially, like the whole universe is collapsing, but also her life is collapsing. And I think it's a really good example of how stakes that are just really big, like the whole universe is going to be destroyed are not actually necessarily that impactful, it's much more impactful to have something that's like very specific and personal to the character. And then they manage to marry those both together, by making the whole universe is going to be destroyed, personal for her as well, which to me was just like chef's kiss, my favorite version of this kind of storytelling. JAZZA:  So in the Alpha Universe, we find out that Alpha Evelyn was the person who developed this verse jumping technology, which allows you to not necessarily— to, like inhabit the bodies of like yourself in other—depending on all of the branching decisions that you've possibly made all the way through your life. But also allows you to use all of their skills as well. So if for example, oh, let's say you were Michelle Yeoh in another universe, you'd be able to do kung fu because you learned that when you were a film star. So we also found find out that the big bad in the across the multiverse is someone called Jobu Tupaki, who is going around murdering everybody trying to find Evelyn, to what end, we have no idea. ROWAN:  Dun, dun, dun. At this point, she's sort of slightly convinced, not really convinced this is real. She's very confused, and in a fit of confusion punches, Jamie Lee Curtis in the face, who has just offered to give her a little bit of an extension until the end of the day. And the classic, you'll know when it's time to fight, that happened from Alpha Waymond is completely misinterpreted, because she decides, I guess now's the time to fight and just punches this lady in the face. And it's at this point that we get our first like fight sequence of the movie. And I— JAZZA:  I love all of the action sequences here. It's like one big long homage to Jackie Chan movies. It's fucking brilliant. ROWAN:  It's beautiful. And essentially, it's just Waymond getting possessed by Alpha Waymond and using his fanny pack/bumbag, depending on which country you're in, to fight a load of people. And it's beautiful, it's— it's wonderful. It's actually exciting. I have a real big bone to pick with all the movies that do like CGI fight sequences against like, it's just what—two CGI things fighting each other, and I just get so bored. And these fights are consists— actually had like interesting choreography, was very legible as well, because I find that that's really tricky, which was helped by the fact that they film this movie at a very high frame rate, basically, so that they would have the freedom to use slow motion at any point, not just the ones that were scripted. Because if you've ever seen slow motion in older movies, and it looks really janky, it's basically because they put slow motion on something that was filmed at a normal frame rate, meaning that your eye is like used to seeing frames flick way faster, so it looks weirdly disjointed. And so this was this, I think really paid off for them. What I'm sure was very annoying having to film with that kind of high frame rate, I think has really worked because they utilize that so well. And before he does that, he does eat chapstick which again was extremely upsetting to watch. JAZZA:  Very disgusting. So it is revealed to us that Jobu is in fact, Joy. [34:36] ROWAN:  Plot twist. JAZZA:  Got twist plot, and she possesses the Joy in the universe where there—the IRS having a conversation with Jamie Lee Curtis punching Jamie Lee Curtis in the face. And she wanders off somewhere, maybe to come and find Evelyn in our universe, that seems to be what is happening. Evelyn and Waymond and like it's—it's like the IRS building is in lockdown, and so they're hiding. And Jamie Lee Curtis ends up doing her own verse jump, getting the skills of a high-pitch-screaming wrestler we think? And goes around and fights Waymond one on one. But then Waymond goes, because Evelyn is so nervous, doesn't seem to be able to master any verse jumping at all on her own. He goes, you're clearly not the Evelyn I've been looking for, I've gotta go now. Bye. Can you imagine? No. ROWAN:  No, I can't. JAZZA:  Sorry Michelle Yeoh, you're not good enough. And so then she starts herself just doing a load of random shit in order to be able to try and get the skills of her in another universe. ROWAN:  Yeah, she's like what is statistically unlikely just like give me— don't do random stuff to try and make that happen. JAZZA:  She is told before Waymond runs away that saying I love you yo Jamie Lee Curtis will allow her to jump to a universe where she has the abilities of kung fu. She ends up being able to do that when Jamie Lee Curtis's knee drop is literally centimeters away from her nose. ROWAN:  Millimeters, she's so close to getting a knee to the face. JAZZA:  So close to getting a knee to the face. And Evelyn's verse jumps to basically the life of Michelle Yeoh, the actual actress. So interestingly, did you know that Michelle Yeoh was originally asked to play basically herself? And this verse jump, I reckon was meant to actually be our universes, Michelle Yeoh. ROWAN:  I'll— well because they flashed through a bunch of footage, which is of her on various red carpets that she has done previously because it's all movie she's been in. So I was like, I didn't know whether that was meant to be literally jumping to our universe, or whether it was they just use it because it was footage. But either way, I like— I like both—both of those options to be honest. JAZZA:  So she turned it down because she wanted to be taken seriously. [36:59] want to like play herself. But I do like the reading of—and to be honest, that's how I've been interpreting it as well. She's Michelle Yeoh in the other universe, is totally fine. ROWAN:  Yeah. And we also get a little bit of a bunch of law here. So basically, every jump causes a crack, you can re—reseal the cracks, but only with training. You can't stay in a universe isn't your own that you've jumped to, because you could die, or worse. And essentially, we find out what the worst option is, is what happened to Jobu aka Joy, were in the Alpha Verse, that version of Joy's mind was splintered because Alpha Everlyn essentially pushed her too far. She made verse jump too many times. And now she's experiencing all of the universe, everywhere all at once.  JAZZA:  All at once. ROWAN:  Everything, It's the title. And so she can verse jump, but also sort of manipulate matter itself at will seemingly. And so no one knows what Jobu wants, they just know that she's looking for Evelyn. And we—this essentially is like a little dump, but it doesn't necessarily feel like a bad law dump or like just exposition because you're listening to it going. Okay, okay, this is all information that I do need because right now, I don't know what the hell is going on. Because I am Evelyn, and I'm just like, oh, God, I just want to go back and finish my taxes, I guess, and be Michelle on the red carpet. But that is not her fate, unfortunately. JAZZA:  So there's—out of this law dump come. I think two of the strongest themes of the movie that resonate with people the most, one is intergenerational, the differences between generations, and how relationships between generations are pressured from first-generation immigrants. So the fact that in the Alpha Universe,  Evelyn pushed Joy too hard, made her crack, made her resent. And kind of like reflecting those sometimes difficult relationships, that it's similar across other phenomena like working-class parents, but especially with immigrant parents, that experience being represented there. And then also, the whole idea of fracturing, and each choice that you make in your life, creating a completely new branch of reality and possibility, really reflects people who choose to or are forced to go to another country to uproot themselves and go to another country. Evelyn, when she becomes Michelle Yeoh, and gets the skills of Michelle Yeoh, gets to see the world that she would have had and the life she would have had if she had never left for the United States with Waymond. And there's always whenever you leave a place, you make one of those big decisions. There's always the thought of oh my god, what would my life be like if I never left? Would it be better if I never left? The life I have now it's a struggle. Would it have been better if I had just stayed? And that I love the way that that is pulled through to the whole idea of kind of like the alternate realities and splintering. Like this is I think Sci-Fi and I didn't even really think of this as Sci-Fi until I saw it classified as such on IMDb. But this is Sci-Fi as its—at its absolute best, as a reflection of the real-world phenomena that happen for so many people. ROWAN:  Yeah, I've been reading a bunch of like reviews and this is one that I think touches on that really nicely critic for The Washington Post. [40:22] says it's not only that the multiverse acts as a metaphor for the immigrant Asian-American experience, or a convenient parable for the dislocations and personality splits suffered by hyphenated that is Asian-American citizens. It also becomes a rather heavy vehicle for confronting and negotiating Asian pessimism, which I think is a really interesting idea of like, yeah, the— the literal hyphenation of you the— the ways in which your identity is split between and across, being something that's mirrored quite literally in this like cracking that's happening across these different multiverses. We also see at this point like the powers that Jobu has which includes like confetti cannoning a man's body apart. And various other very exciting, very exciting things which we lo—you know, I'm like, you know what I love to see, but also you are absolutely terrifying. JAZZA:  Also if no, I'm sorry, I'm turning giant dildos into a murder weapon.  ROWAN:  Yes, stunning. JAZZA:  This [41:18] and dildos, brilliant. ROWAN: Very into it. At this point, we also get Michelle jumping to a universe where everyone has hot dogs instead of fingers, I'm losing my mind. Just incredible work all around. And also, we get this moment where we're starting to see the big universal multiverse drama and the personal drama clash together, when Michelle basically is—is separating Jobu as a concept from her daughter Joy, because she says, you're the reason my daughter doesn't call anymore and dropped out of college and thinks that she's gay. So there's a sense of like, everything that's bad is not actually Joy, it's Jobu taking over her body or influencing her in some way, or being connected to her. And that she thinks that being gay is like one of these bad things like not caring and not having ambition. And being gay is like one of these things that she still doesn't support, which I think is— is very telling when we look at before where she—her excuse for not telling the granddad is like, oh, he's old, it's kind of like saying, oh, it's you know, he's old, he might be— it might like kill him all this kind of stuff, but never really admitting that she herself finds this difficult to deal with. And so we are like, this is going to be a journey for her as well in that way. And this is where we get to the bagel. JAZZA:  Before we get to the bagel. ROWAN:  Okay. JAZZA:  This is— this is where I'm like, this is an explicitly queer movie.  ROWAN:  Yeah. JAZZA:  It's not just kind of like a fact, this is about the queer experience. And something that I've only recently like clocked onto, I've watched this movie. I've watched the movie six times. In the—in the hot dog hand universe, I didn't even clock that the Ja— that Jamie Lee Curtis and Michelle Yeoh, in a queer relationship.  ROWAN:  How did you not clock that? JAZZA:  I just like, obviously, I knew that it existed, but I never like when—oh, like Evelyn is also potentially at least in one of these universes, is queer as well. And showing kind of like those—a lot of this movie is about being distracted and caring about things that don't actually in the grand scheme of things matter, and deciding what you actually care about. We see that when Jobu is busy kind of like massacring all of these bodyguards. And goes, wait, you're still hung up on the fact that I'm gay in this universe? As kind of like, I can't believe that this is something that this Evelyn has decided to actually still fixate on. And it's— I think that there is a possible reading here where Evelyn herself is maybe queer in some way, shape, or form. But because of the fact that she was born in particular culture, comes from a particular time, got married to somebody who's actually trying to divorce her, was never able, and never had the freedom to be able to actually experiment with herself and—and find out about herself in that way. And actually, one of the many reasons that many people choose to emigrate and find a new life in another country, is so that they— their children can have a better opportunities and be able to kind of like be whoever they want to be. But then there is sometimes this brush up against who your kid then, therefore, wants to be, you'll have critic— critiques of like, oh, you've become too American. I don't understand all of this queerness and things like that. And I I love that kind of like relationship between Evelyn and Joy—oh, Jobu being represented here. But yeah, they're showing the bagel. ROWAN:  Yeah, then there's a bagel. So basically Jo—okay, listen, stay with me here you guys. Jobu has created a bagel. And everything bagel with everything on it. That's quite literally everything in the world. All concepts, all matter, all things, which is all also kind of created a black hole that could destroy the entire multiverse. Classic. But Jobu is basically like nothing matters, so who cares? Let's all just get sucked into a bagel, that's a vibe for me.  JAZZA:  She's experienced Everything Everywhere All at Once. And therefore is like, well, everything matters, therefore nothing matters—matters. So what the fuck is the point anymore? ROWAN:  Yeah. JAZZA:  What is this world? ROWAN:  Yeah. JAZZA:  Essentially is Jobu's philosophy. ROWAN:  Just total nihilism, just total, just like screw everything. And this is the interesting thing, right? We've heard the idea that she's looking for Evelyn, but we don't know why. And what she basically wants is for Evelyn to come into the bagel with her and for them to be dead and gone, and not have to experience anything, and just be free of the like agonies of life, and living, and experience. And it's kind of like Jobu, where's your therapist, I beg of you. We need— we need to, we need to sit down and talk about the bagel babes. JAZZA:  So we—basically Jobu goes to Evelyn,  I wanted somebody else to experience this with me. Her and her mother is really the only one who is able to because she invented verse jumping. Evelyn doesn't want Joy—she doesn't want joy to feel like this. She doesn't want Joy to have this nihilism as like the basis of her existence. And so Evelyn decides to do the thing that Waymond earlier said was worse than death, and splinter her mind so that she is across as many different universes as possible so that she experiences the same thing as her daughter. And so that she can get there and then bring her back. Essentially, this is the way. So we end up with Evelyn jumping to get the powers of somebody in one of the universes as she falls over and blind herself and then becomes an opera singer. As we all know, in one universe, she is one of those pizza sign spinners and manages to use that in some fighting. ROWAN:  She is a chef who is friends with a man, who is being Ratatouilled by a raccoon. JAZZA:  By a raccoon, Raccacoonie. ROWAN:  Classic. JAZZA:  Which is a better movie, it would have been a better movie,  I think. [theme] JAZZA:  Hello, friends Jazza here from another space and another time. Just popping in to humbly ask you to consider supporting this podcast financially. It makes a huge difference, and it keeps us on the airwaves, frankly. If you like what we're doing and want to support queer media, then you can sign up for our Patreon for as little as $5 a month. For that fee, that low fee less than like a fancy Starbucks, you can become a [47:47] called Baby Gay. And as a Baby Gay, you get access to our thriving Discord with hundreds of members who all chat about, not only movies but queer media and general chitchat that they love. It's a really lovely community. We've been going crazy about stuff like The Last of Us episodes and all of the Oscars hype. It's been a good time in the Discord recently. What's more, those Baby Gays get to join our monthly watch-along, which really is the jewel in the crown of our Patreon perks where we all watch a movie together once a month. In the run-up to the Oscars, we'll be watching something Oscars themed. Maybe The Whale, maybe not. If that sounds fun to you, check out our Patreon for that and many other perks. It really does keep the podcast afloat, especially in these difficult times. So thank you very much for considering supporting us. As returning listeners, know we are part of Multitude a collective of creators who make audio nibbles that you can listen to [48:48] really, really good. This week, I want to walk you through some of the refreshed parks that they offer to their patrons. Important hence separate to our patrons of the Queer Movie Podcast. But you get loads of really cool stuff, for example, my dears at the $10 tier who are called The Insiders, you get access to all of the behind-the-scenes stuff at Multitude. All of the drama going down in the office, all of the pet photos, and all of that kind of stuff. You also get to see the crew-only Instagram accounts, first dibs on any and all Multitude update coming down the pike. Plus, all insiders get 10% off all Multitude logo merch, and that is forever. There were loads of other perks available as well, that all have fantastic perks all the way up to the founders, which is the highest tier, where you can get hangout sessions for one to two hours with certain hosts, which is truly amazing access. So go over to Multitude Patreon and consider having a look there and seeing what you might be interested in, it can really be worth it. We are also still supported by Squarespace, who can help you to buy a domain and create a website. So a friend of mine was putting together an event in New York. Did I mention I live in New York now? And had a ton of amazing artwork that they had made in order to accompany this event. I was very naughty, and I told them to use our link, which is squarespace.com/queermovie. And I'm going to tell you what I told them, dear listener, that then convinced them to use our code. So not only does Squarespace allow you to centralize all of your assets, and platform presences in one place. It also lets you set up a shop where people can buy things from you, or even donate if they feel so inclined. Not only that high-tech analytics present a pretty good overview of how your posts are doing, how your content is doing, what's selling well. And it's all done with pretty, pretty graphics, so you can tell what is working and what isn't. And it also makes all events in New York instantly successful. Yeah, it's true. All you have to do in order to get all of those good things, maybe not the successful New York event stuff. All you have to do is go to squarespace.com/queermovie. And when you're set up to make all of your digital dreams come true, you can use the offer code, QUEERMOVIE that's all one word, to save 10% points off of your first purchase of a website or a domain. Remember to go to squarespace.com/queermovie. Now, back to the show. [theme] ROWAN:  I have to ask at this point Jazza, have we reached act two yet? I forget when act two happens. JAZZA:  Okay. So, so that was Act One, by the way, listener that was— ROWAN:  [51:39] JAZZA:  Handily, handily the movie splits it into three acts for us, that was everything. And then we go into act two, which is everywhere, but what I have also called the party and its aftermath. Because [51:54] ROWAN:  Because the New Year's party is happening. JAZZA:  Yeah, because as Evelyn's mind is cracking and she gets exposed to all of this and she becomes susceptible to all of the nihilism, by the way, that is in this just before this section, a fight scene with Michelle Yeoh and two people with butt plugs in them because that's the thing they had to do to get the martial arts skills.  ROWAN:  Classic. JAZZA:  Amazing. One of the greatest pieces of cinema—cinema ever fucking made. I'm just annoyed, the whole thing was pixelated. But we ended up with her suspecting to the nihilism. And then she also just kind of like gives up and it feels like Evelyn, well, she dies, she dies in this one universe and then get sucked into the universe where she's having the Chinese New Year's celebration, where the IRS are arriving, and they're going to possess everything. ROWAN:  I have my notes here was New Year's party is coming, there will be so much aftermath. Because I'm sure at this point, everyone has listened to the podcast already. But if you haven't, there is always an act in gay movies, that's the party in its aftermath. And they literally threw a party and they kept talking about this party. And I was like, we're gonna get so much fucking aftermath. We love to see it. So yeah, basically, we've reached—she's reached a point in this movie where she's basically like, yeah, you're right, everything is random and meaningless. Every single verse that I—that she's in, because she's in every universe all at once, all the time with her daughter. JAZZA:  It's the movie, it's the title of the movie. ROWAN:  It's the title of a movie. She's piñata in one universe, she's a rock in one universe, she's made of animation in one of the universe— JAZZA:  Ah, the rock universe. ROWAN:  —You've never—who would have thought that the rocks could make us feel so many fucking emotions. And there's a really, really sad bit where basically, Joy says to Evelyn, like, I was really hoping that someone else would have this experience, have themselves crack in this way. And then tell me that they had figured it out and everything was okay. And that I was just—I was just thinking about this wrong, and they would experience it and they will be able to tell me the meaning of life, and tell me what was actually happening and what I should be living for. And that hasn't happened because you essentially have turned just as chaotic and nihilistic and like, everything is meaningless as I have. And that was pretty— that's pretty rough. That's a pretty rough message for us to get at this point in the movie. So you know, spoiler alert, though, it gets better. JAZZA:  Yeah. So as Evelyn kind of gives up, and he's about to step into the bagel, Waymond steps up, normal Waymond, not Alpha Waymond, because he's dead now, he died at some point. This is when I begin sobbing because Waymond is just being like, I don't understand why everybody is fighting. Why can't everybody just be kinder to one another? So this is where we have the trifecta, and it is complete. So we have Joy, who is nihilism, we have Evelyn who is existentialism, and then we have Waymond, who is optimism and absurdism. So those three philosophies, kind of interacting as these three main characters and the different ways that they go to the world, nihilism obviously everything is obviously, you read Wikipedia. Nihilism, obviously being where nothing matters, so why should you care? Existentialism is we can find meaning in kind of like the choices that we make in our live, And absurdism is kind of like finding the—it realizing how ridiculous everything is, and so laughing along with it anyway. And that optimism that can potentially come with that. So these few characters represent that, Those like three philosophies for life. And this speech from Waymond is—is one of the most heartwarming wonderful things because I think it's—it's such an optimistic take on humanity. And sometimes we need that optimism and I— I fucking loved it. So Waymond ended up influencing Evelyn. Evelyn realizes that the thing that is going to get her through this, even though that she is seeing that nothing matters, the thing that matters to her is Joy, her daughter, and so she decides that she is now going to help everybody else who's trying to fight her, including Jamie Lee Curtis. She's going to fight everybody and find out what they're thi—the thing that brings them joy. So she faces off against all of these minions. Jamie Lee Curtis, what is Jamie Lee Curtis's joy? Isn't it—is it— Jamie Lee Curtis finds out that she's lovable. There's one character—oh, the Raccacoonie guy, realizes he really loves being controlled by raccoons. ROWAN:  He is played by Mike from Glee as well.  JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  Which I immediately clocked and was like, absolutely perfect. Love it, beautiful. That boy I was like if they don't make him dance at some point during this, it would have been a wasted movie. And he does have a little bit of like more fight choreography style stuff, but I'm like I can see your dance roots in there, Harry, I can see them. JAZZA:  And she makes two people dance and they become married in one universe. One of the Daniels, one of the directors, she takes him into another universe and exposes him to S&M and that's what brings him joy. ROWAN:  I—the fact— I didn't know that—that was one of the Daniels, [57:06]  JAZZA:  That's one of the Daniels. ROWAN:  I love that even more. JAZZA:  It's so fucking brilliant. And then she reaches—so Jobu has summoned the bagel that's going to destroy everything and she's about to step into it. And am I sobbing? Yes, I still am. Jobu goes to like start to fight Evelyn her mother, and then Evelyn also like does like some kung fu, goes to fight, and then opens her arms to try and hug her. And eventually, Evelyn like they started rustling in tussling, and Evelyn, let Jobu go into the despair of the bagel. And that's kind of like—that's kind of like the way that this thing— no it isn't. ROWAN:  Uh-huh tricks you— tricks you guys. So this I think is— okay, so again, what I found really interesting that I've just talked about before the idea of the big multiverse fight sequence finale, versus the very personal finale, and that the very personal is almost always going to be more interesting. And they tied it together so well because they have the really dramatic like, no don't go into the bagel, like trying to save her daughter she's being pulled in, which is like a very physically dramatic finale. But the actual moment is that it has that pathos and have that emotionality to it, is within our Evelyn's universe at this party where essentially Evelyn is like Joy is saying to Evelyn, like, we're just too different. You know, I'm tired, I just want to go, like us being together hurts the both of us, we need to go our separate ways. Let me go. And so her version of letting me go is very literal. Like I—we just need to be apart from each other. Like I get that we're mother and daughter but we just fucking make each other miserable. And it's this clear parallel to like the very dramatic Sci-Fi let me go into this bagel situation. And that that to me is just so perfect. And then in between we get the set— we get like the absurdist version of them as rocks and having this scene where— JAZZA:  With googly eyes like we haven't even mentioned the googly eyes. ROWAN:  Oh Joy's googly eye rock falling off a cliff. And then Evelyn's rock just falling after her. Oh, it's so beautiful. JAZZA:  Like literally laughing and crying at stationary rocks that have subtitles. Like how has this—how does the [59:26] do that? Oh, it's so fucking good. ROWAN:  It's essentially like we also get this again like very human ideas of like change and Evelyn being kind of taking up the call, so like breaking the cycle with her dad the idea of like, my daughter ended up being this like stubborn aimless mess just like her mother, and she's perfect that way. And that she gave someone— she says you gave her someone kind patient and forgiving to make up for all that she likes. Talking about her and Waymond, and her understanding of Waymond now, being so much clearer than it was at the beginning. That this is like helped her marriage, helped her relationship with her daughter. Just oh, she's—and also the idea of like, yeah, it doesn't make sense. You're saying the universe doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that I would be like, still love you even though you only visit when you need something. And like I— you know, I hate tattoos and your covered in them and like, I could be anywhere else in the entire world. In fact, at this point, she's like a good bit anywhere else in the multiverse, it doesn't make sense, but like, just want to be with you. And like, it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense, essentially. And I weep and I cry, and so does Jazza. Jazza at this point is just simply 100% tear. JAZZA:  Can I say—so I watched it this morning at an AMC and I cried so much. Have you ever cried so much that you dehydrated and you don't have any more tears?  ROWAN:  Yeah, all the time. JAZZA:  That was me— I've met—that's never happened to me before, yeah. ROWAN:  [1:00:49] like a headache, a headache that just all come fucking zooming. And so that essentially, in every single universe, they reconcile, there's no universe that she wants to be where her daughter isn't. And that has always been her strength throughout this, right? So like, we have this bit at the beginning where she says, like, you're getting fat, you need to look after yourself, whatever. But like in her actions, she shows that she cares about her daughter. She's willing to go through the thing that will like split her consciousness and like destroy her mind and maybe make her go crazy, and potentially she'll be dead. But she's immediately like, as soon as she knows that, that's an option, that it might help her daughter she does it. And so in her actions, she's showing love from the very beginning, and it just feels like it's about being able to show it in a way that her daughter can appreciate and a language in which they both understand, both like, you know, metaphorically and literally, and vice versa, that they can both kind of start to understand each other. And know that meaning is the meaning that they make

Let's talk about M. Night Shyamalan's newest, and gayest, movie - were Rowan and Jazza held captive by its story, or just left wishing for the end of the world? Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. Head over to queermoviepodcast.gay and get a FREE .gay domain name of your choice for your own website or brand courtesy of their registrar partner Porkbun—for 1-year! This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd   TRANSCRIPT JAZZA:  Hello, everyone. Just before we jump into the main episode today, I wanted to thank our two top-level patrons, Jennifer, and Toby, who are supporting us on the rainbow parent tier, which is absolutely bloody amazing. Do you want to join them, head over to Patreon and you don't have to donate as much as they do, but we'd really appreciate anything that you can give to us. More about Patreon coming a little bit later. On with the episode, my darlings. [theme] JAZZA:  Welcome to the Queer Movie Podcast, celebrating the best— ROWAN:   —and worst— JAZZA:   —in LGBTQ plus cinema one glorious genre at a time. ROWAN:  I'm Rowan Ellis. JAZZA:  And I am Jazza John. ROWAN:  Each episode we discuss a movie from a different genre of cinema. JAZZA:  This episode's genre is— JAZZA AND ROWAN: Queer Chiller. JAZZA:  It's so cold in here. ROWAN:  I—Yeah, fully, I would say everyone I do not understand what this genre is. It's like a thriller, but more chill. I don't—but yeah, you're right, Jazza is right. This is like what everyone has been describing it as. Like, if you go on the Wikipedia article for this movie, literally the quotes from critics call it a chiller. And I'm like, we're behind, baby. We—we need to—we run a podcast about genres and we're like, what the hell does this even mean? JAZZA:  You know what, it's handy for us because we've already done queer thriller. I think. ROWAN:  That's true. So this technically is a different genre. JAZZA:  It is technically different genre, sure. Today, we're gonna be talking about the M. Night Shyamalan adaptation of the Paul Tremblay book, Cabin at the End of the World,  Knock at the Cabin. Not to be confused with the 2011 film, Cabin in the Woods, which is much better. ROWAN:  I mean, yeah, that doesn't [1:45] I feel like it needs any kind of argument from me. That's very obviously true. But before we get started, sexing some grasshoppers, Jazza, every single—Jazza—listen everyone. I think it's become clear by now that Jazza writes the scripts for this beginning bit and often they write it literally like [2:02] together, and I don't look at it beforehand because I'm an idiot who trust them. So I guess that's a reference to them catching grasshoppers and discussing whether their boy grasshoppers or girl grasshoppers or whatever. Okay. JAZZA:  Yeah, she say going around. sexing grasshoppers. ROWAN:  [2:19] JAZZA:  [2:19] is called when you—when you put down like the sex of the animal, it's called sexing. Thank you [2:25] for giving me that information. ROWAN:  Okay, sure. So I'm so sorry, let me start that extremely normal sentence again. But before we start sexing some grasshoppers Jazza, what's the gayest thing you've done since the last episode? JAZZA:  So I've got a pretty cool one. I'm— I—I haven't been legitimately intimate famous, arguably ever. And so me getting noticed off of the internet doesn't happen very often. So when it does, it's a lovely little special occasion. I have been recognized on Grindr in New York, this week by the lovely Jaime. Hello, Jamie, thank you for listening. ROWAN:  Hi, Jamie. JAZZA:   Hi, Jamie. I will say we—we exchanged a couple of pleasantries. No dick pics were exchanged. ROWAN:  Okay. Good to know. JAZZA:  I just want to make that very clear.  But thank you very much. If you see me on Grindr say hello. [3:16] ROWAN:  Sorry, I just wanna—just— just one quick follow-up question, Jazza. How far away was Jamie? JAZZA:  Jamie was—uh what was it?  ROWAN:  Because I know exactly how far away because you sent me the screencap of this conversation. JAZZA:  I did. Yeah. ROWAN:  And it was extremely [3:32] JAZZA:  Oh, it was a 100—no, it's 45 meters away. ROWAN:  Literally your roommate. JAZZA:  I have been— I have been staying in Hell's Kitchen Bay. And I think the grid stops at like someone is 200 meters away. So that's not extraordinary for this part of New York. Did I mention I live in New York? ROWAN:  No, I don't think you have.  JAZZA:  No, no. Okay. Cool. Rowan, how about you, what's the gayest thing you've done? ROWAN:  Honestly, I think it was watching episode three of The Last Of Us. That truly made me feel so gay. And we— I immediately after watching that episode, message Jazza to be like please can we do a little special episode, bonus episode of the podcast about episode three of The Last Of Us, so that is in the works hypothetically. JAZZA:  It is in the works. ROWAN:  Unless you never see it from us, in which case it was never—it was never in the works. JAZZA:  Allegations only. We're too late for kind of like the hype around the episode, but it is such a great episode. I think we are going to make at some point when we have some time. ROWAN:  Yeah. I mean, please don't tell me that because I'm genuinely thinking of doing my March video about quiz zombie media. So let's just say it's like always relevant. Like— JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  —zombie constantly alive, never dead. JAZZA:  Brilliant. [theme] JAZZA:  First, we're going to be talking about the background of M. Night Shyamalan and asking why? Well then be splitting the movie into three acts and discussing the plot with our usual sassiness. ROWAN:  Jazza then has some extra discussion for the end of the movie, which has me very excited with anticipation, because they haven't told me what the hell their bit of context is that they're going to talk about which— I don't think we've ever done that before. Normally, we tell each other too much. And we have to keep being like, save it for the podcast, stop telling me your opinion, stop talking to me like we're friends. We are already allowed to talk on the podcast. So we will be spoiling this movie as we do with every one of these episodes. So if you care about going into these things fresh, we would encourage you to watch it before listening to the rest of the episode. JAZZA:  So if you've come back, welcome back. For those of you who stayed, thanks for staying. Without further ado, let's sell the shit out of this air fryer and review Knock at the Cabin. [theme] ROWAN:  So really, with this movie, I was—we always talk about the context that we can do these movies in, and a lot of the time it's very obvious. And there's very obvious like the history of the genre, like with a horror episode, or the—the history of the movie was really interesting, or with the moonlight, things like that. With this one, I was like, I guess, the M. Night Shyamalan is like the interesting aspect of this movie, essentially. Other than you know, they let gays be main characters. And so— JAZZA:  How generous by the way. ROWAN:  How generous of them.  JAZZA:  Thank you so much for your allyship, Night. ROWAN:  So it has come to my attention that I feel like I was kind of growing up in the heyday of this man. Because I have spoken to some people who are younger, like not—not wildly young, but they are just like, not familiar with him. Because they just weren't old enough to watch his movies. Even though his movies were like 12 rated, they were sort of like, oooh, their horror movies— JAZZA:  Sure. ROWAN:  Kind of thing. So like 12 rated in that way. JAZZA:  The fans of M. Night Shyamalan that I am aware of tend to be our age,  a little bit older, like movie geeks.  ROWAN:  Yeah.  JAZZA:  And I think it's because he had some of the— some of the most iconic movies of like the late 90s and 2000s. ROWAN:  Yeah. And then he fell off a—fell off a [7:04] But the funny thing is, if so the way that people remember him, I think because of the Sixth Sense, which was like definitely this absolute breakout movie, which he—which he also wrote this— it came out as the same year as another film that he wrote, Stuart Little.  JAZZA:  Oh my god, really, I have— ROWAN:  1999 and— JAZZA:  No, shut up! ROWAN:  —did rewrite, She's all that.  JAZZA:  Wow.  ROWAN:  All 1999, an absolute stellar year. We don't talk enough about his incredible Stuart Little, where the twist was the very first moment of the movie where the child was a mouse.  JAZZA:  Yeah.  ROWAN:  So notoriously, he like has— JAZZA:  No one saw it coming.  ROWAN:  He has these big twists in his movies, that's what he's known for. However, a lot of people talk about the idea that he essentially like went downhill with The Village. I feel very strongly that The Village is not a bad movie, and that at the time that it came out, it was a well-received movie. And because of Lady in the Water, which came afterward two years later, in 2006, that people absolutely slated. Everyone wanted to be really cool, and sound like they had always known he was trashed hack. And so—and so they start hating on The Village to be like, oh, I knew before anyone else. I've always not liked him, which I think is very, very rude of them. JAZZA:  I agree. I think— I think The Village is well, it was his last movie that I enjoyed. Like I— ROWAN:  [8:25] Yeah, yeah. And people—people did enjoy it. And I—like genuinely, it's one of those movies where like, when you don't know the twist going into it, like that was so brilliantly done. And it made complete sense logically within the movie, and it all came together, and it was really interesting. And I think it's just when you know the twist, and then you come back to it with the attitude of like, this guy's a hack like the—he never might writes good stuff. Loads of people just retrospectively decided they hate that. But when you look at what he's done, he doesn't have some like, massive, like 10 feature film discography before that, where he was writing all these twists, right? He has like the Sixth Sense is his big one, Unbreakable, and then Signs. And then The Village.  JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  So it's not—and also obviously Stuart Little. But so it's really interesting to me that he—he managed to get such a huge name for himself, where it was seen as like this big fool of this iconic director after what is essentially like three features that have this element to them that he was known for. And so yeah, he essentially is known as the twist director. So he also essentially after The Village comes out has Lady in the Water that was the beginning of the end for him. He does the Last Airbender, which was [9:45] JAZZA:  Oh my God, [9:46]  ROWAN:  After Earth was him as well, which I forget because it—because the [9:51] JAZZA:  With Will Smith and— ROWAN:  Put onto Jaden Smith and Will Smith. Split which has a lot of like, question mark, question mark around it, and Glass, old which is the everyone ages on the beach one from two years ago now— JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  Because it was 2021. And now we've got Knock at the Cabin. But I will say there's like this to me this movie I mean— I feel like we've already sort of hinted at it. It's not necessarily pulling him back up to a Sixth Sense levels for either of us? JAZZA:  No. That's it.  ROWAN:  Yeah, that's—that's the review. JAZZA:  This is the thing, so he doesn't really do big studio pieces anymore. And I don't— I think it's the last [10:31] it's the last time that he worked with a big studio. And so most of his stuff now is it leans more indie. But the thing is, it all still does really, really well, because the M. Night Shyamalan brand is so strong. ROWAN:  Which is wild, because he has like three times as many flops as he does successful movies— JAZZA:  100% ROWAN:  —in terms of so—in terms of the way that people view the movies, and how critically they—they've been kind of responded to. JAZZA:  But he has been so influential I think, especially on people who, like I said, were around our age, maybe a little bit older, who were first being introduced to movies at the time? Like his early movies especially was such experiences. And I think in the— in the— in a similar way where stuff like the Lord of the Rings, and the way that that was such an influential series of movies for people who then went into work in the industry, I think that M. Night Shyamalan is that for a lot of media critics, for a lot of people who now work in this. And so there is that really firm fan base that he has, and it really is like a fanboy fan base. ROWAN:  Yeah. And I will I—so I think as well completely agree with you. And I think that it ties in even further because when you think about movies that have big twists in them, or big like shocking moments, they often come with a higher age rating. So the really classic twists throughout the time, you're looking at like the usual suspects, you're looking at seven things like that, where it's like there's either a big twist or a shocking moment. And so you're right, this idea of an introduction to cinema. I remember watching like The Sixth Sense, watching The Village, like when I was 12. And I was like 11,10, 11,12 years old, and like they were going to be the first movies I ever really got to see which had a massive twist in them. And that showed me what it could be because before that I'm really consuming children's media that ultimately doesn't really work, like twists aren't really a children's media thing so much, and it was this idea of like yeah, trusting your audience to be able to like piece things together by the end, they're being a puzzle to solve, they're being like some more other levels to it, other layers other than just being a good movie because like Sixth Sense I think, the reason why it works so well as a movie with a twist, will not spoil it even though I'm sure literally everyone knows the twist of that movie even if they haven't seen it. JAZZA:  I— can I tell you something? I've never seen the Six Sense all the way through. ROWAN:  Oh, it would destroy— it would fully destroy you. That is a film that I watched as like a 10-year-old, but you are a little bit baby and you absolutely be psychologically destroyed by it. JAZZA:  Oh, is it actually scary? [12:59] ROWAN:  Well, okay. So I hasten to add that I watched this when I was like 10 years old.  JAZZA:  Uh-huh. ROWAN:  So it was— it was not like terrifying. It was— I really liked horror movies as a kid. So it was like enjoyably frightening for me through the first watch. And it's one of those movies with a twist where you can watch it again after you know the twist and it becomes almost like a different movie to you.  JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  And you get you— every time you watch it, there is something you can get from it. There's clues you can spot, there's things that like are exciting, which I think is like the best kind of twist movie. It's one where the twist feels— JAZZA:  It changes. ROWAN:  —unpredictable, but inevitable at the same time. And so what this does though? Being known as someone who makes these twist movies, means that inevitably when people go and see his films, even though a lot of the films he's put out since don't have big twists, people expect that. And I definitely feel like that had a big effect on my experience watching this movie. Because I was really finding myself searching, it is a very simple movie and that it has a very like high concept premise of these four people believe that they will be saving the world by making this—essentially making this family choose to kill one of the three members of the family. They believe they will be able to save the world. That's a very high-concept premise, you can explain it in one sentence, and it's all basically in one location. So for me, I'm like, oh, this is primed for a twist. There is something going on here. So everything—I was looking at everything with meaning. I was trying to figure it out. I was like, I wrote so many notes of like things that I was predicting were going to happen. And then there just wasn't a twist at— but the movie also wasn't good enough for me to feel like it was better off not having one. JAZZA:  I think that is a twist. ROWAN:  Okay, controversial. Did I just— did I just misunderstand this extremely complex movie, Jazza?  JAZZA:  Well, I like I think— ROWAN:  It's a twist that gay? Because that is—that is a twist. JAZZA:  More or less? No, bae. I think the twist is the fact that the [15:00] meant to be the fact that the apocalypse is real. ROWAN:  Okay, but here's the thing Jazza, that's in the trailer.  JAZZA:  Yeah. I saw. I didn't watch the trailer.  ROWAN:  Oh, okay. JAZZA:  And I— from reading— from it and having now watched the trailer, I'm like oh, that is literally the whole movie.  ROWAN:  Yeah.  JAZZA:  And it would— if you had seen the trailer, it literally ruins the whole thing.  ROWAN:  Yeah.  JAZZA:  And I think although I will say, I think it marginally probably makes the viewing experience better. It doesn't make it significantly better. But I think that we're set up, we're meant to believe that this is for like fundamentalist, religious—religious bananas, bananas people, who have come here and like performing and doing a homophobia. And I think it's meant to be oh, this is actually real, and that's like the big twist. Oh, they— they kill one of their dads and now everything's fine. And that's meant to be a, wow, I can't believe you did that. But obviously, it doesn't really have that gravitas to it. ROWAN:  But to me, that's not a twist, that's just one of the options that are laid out at the beginning of the movie already.  JAZZA:  Yeah. And that is from the first like—after the first 20 minutes when they've tied the gay couple up. That is—that becomes what the movie is. The movie is oh, either this thing happens or this thing happens.  ROWAN:  Yeah. JAZZA:  And one of the things happens.  ROWAN:  And so I was always searching for that third thing or the twist. And I had a bunch of idea. I was like listen, buddy, M, my friend. I got some options for you that I can point out as I go through. I also made my notes in the cinema. I watched this in the cinema, and so they are so incoherent in terms of the—oh, Jazza also did. I'm looking at some of these notes and I'm like, I really hope I can remember what plot point this goes with. Because one is just in all caps, baby got a gun. So I'm hoping that I can figure— I'm assuming that's the child got the gun at some point. JAZZA:  If the child, I don't think he gets the gun at any point [16:56] ROWAN:  Oh, I think baby might have been one of the guys then.  JAZZA:  Yeah, yeah, yeah it is. ROWAN:  I think maybe Eric is baby. I also have— JAZZA:  Andrew. I can't believe you're mixing up the gays.  ROWAN:  I'm so sorry. Leonard what? I also wrote down,  I writt— I read this out to myself just now, and I was like why did I put rip on, on there? And I was like, oh, it's because the note is meant to be RIP Ron. So yeah, some clearly, some very intellectual notes, which you will know if you've listened to the podcast before. It's entirely what this podcast is about, intellect all the way. I will say I might save it for the end, but do you know anything about the book it was based on?  JAZZA:  Yeah, and the book is better, apparently. I've never read the book.  ROWAN:  So do you know the big—the—the difference? The ending?  JAZZA:  Well, there's two big differences.  ROWAN:  Okay. Should we talk about the ending difference at the end, wHen we talk about the end?  JAZZA:  I think let's just do it now. ROWAN:  Spoilers, guys. JAZZA:  I mean, we've given them the spoiler warning [17:49] So the first difference is the fact that when it's shot and killed. ROWAN:  Yes.  JAZZA:  So then, because it was an accident, she doesn't count as a willing sacrifice in like the weird fucked up law of this universe. And so then you have the gay couple who have now got a dead child. Now have to kill one of the other ones, and only— the only one of them is left and has to like, be alone for the rest of their life. Fucking depressing. Highest stakes, I wanted that. But I think M. Night Shyamalan is too much of a pussy to kill the child. ROWAN:  I like how in the movie if you know the—the story how it originally went that they were adopting, that's very funny, because they essentially are like, hey, kid, go all the way over there to the tree house, so that we can't accidentally shoot you in a scuffle like in the book. JAZZA:  Yeah. Exactly. ROWAN:  She's great. JAZZA:  And then the difference at the end from what I understand is that there's ambiguity that we actually never as a reader know, whether or not the apocalypse is real or not.  ROWAN:  Hmm, interesting. JAZZA:  They just kind of like drive off and that's left hanging. And I would have also preferred that to the very on-the-nose kind of weird magical realism that the end of this movie has. ROWAN:  Oh boy. Well, I guess we'll get into that in this next section where we actually tell you from beginning to end, what was going on and what we were thinking about it while we were watching. That I was about to be like The Cabin in the Woods, The Knock at the—The Knock at the Door—no.  JAZZA:  The Cabin in the— ROWAN:  The Cabin door. Knock at the Cabin door? Knock at the Cabin. Knock on the cabin? JAZZA:  Wait, isn't it not at the cabin? ROWAN:  It can be on the—you wouldn't knock on the—knock on the door, but you would knock at the cabin.  JAZZA:  It's not. It's not. ROWAN:  Knock on—knock at— JAZZA:  At the cabin. You Knock at the Cabin. ROWAN:  As we discuss Knock at the Cabin. [theme] ROWAN:  Okay, so, Jazza do you have segments for this? Do you have acts? JAZZA:  Yes I do. ROWAN:  I find it really hard to place acts because of my ADHD, my sense of time is really fucked. So I can do acts when I have something in front of me and I can—I can check in with a timer to see like, is it around a third of the way? So I don't have the acts, so I'm very willing to bow to your knowledge and your expertise on this. JAZZA:  Sure. I will be honest I have very much forced a round peg into a square hole here with the party this afternoon, but I— ROWAN:  I was gonna say. JAZZA:  But I— I have forced it in, it is there— ROWAN:  Okay I love that. JAZZA:  —which kind of liberal, a really liberal idea of what a party is.  ROWAN:  Yeah. JAZZA:  In this case, it's murder. ROWAN:  Love that. For those who don't know, I feel like I do this every time I'm like for new— for new listeners. JAZZA:  Firstly, welcome. ROWAN:  Welcome. Also, when we split it the movie into those, we always have different names for the thirds. And for some reason, every single gay movie has a party and its aftermath is one of—at least one of the third. Sometimes two, sometimes even three. So I love that you were committed to that bit. And you have managed to theorize that murder is a party. Ah sorry, can—please continue, Jazza. JAZZA:  So my opening act is boyfriend twins, try S&M for the first time. ROWAN:  Oh, I love that. That's very—that's very clever, Jazza. JAZZA:  Thank you so much [21:10]  ROWAN:  Very witty. [21:12] JAZZA:  So we opened up with this movie with the breakout star of this film, uh Kristen Cui, the seven-year-old child—adopted child of the boyfriend twins. ROWAN:  Tell me why I thought you were about to say the breakout star, Dave Batista. Also fair, you know what, he's great. JAZZA:  Yeah. I actually don't think he was very good in this movie. ROWAN:  Wow. JAZZA:  Which I—apparently is controversial, but oh, well. So this young girl when is out in the garden, collecting grasshoppers. And as we said before, is sexing them, giving them names is doing like a school project, incredibly— incredibly cute. I don't know how you felt about the cinematography and stuff there. I thought it was beautiful, and I actually think this whole movie is really beautifully shot the way that they pan— ROWAN:  Yeah [22:06] JAZZA:  —through windows to the outside. The way that light is refracted, and the different [22:14] of light showing kind of like different stages of each day, I think it's really, really pretty, and the setting is stunning as well. Shyamalan decides to completely ruin that with um— ROWAN:  The movie. JAZZA:  Dutch angles of— with the movie, but also with Dutch angles throughout the whole of this opening thing. If anybody doesn't know, a Dutch angle is basically when you tilt the angle of the camera, so that everything is like a skew. And it's kind of like a bit of a mallet. It's not a very nuanced way of being able to show like huh, something here is off. So Wen is there collecting some grasshoppers and then Batista comes along and starts to make friends with her. But everything is at an angle. And I—I feel like I'm tilting my head throughout the whole dialogue that he has with the seven-year-old. They end up making friends, he's pretty charming. And then he goes well I'm—I'm really sad because I'm going to have to do something really terrible Wen. You should go in and get your Daddy's. And then we see three other people walking up the path towards the cabin where Wen is staying with her two daddies,  Daddy Eric, and Daddy Andrew. ROWAN:  So cute. I would like to point out that the cinematography—the cinematography, being good is really no surprise because the gu—the guy did the cinematography or coders to cinematographers who were listed, but the one who's like the really well-known one did the lighthouse, the Witch, the Northmen.  JAZZA:  Oh amazing. ROWAN:  Like, he—Yeah. This is not a surprise, and I also agree like I was watching this beginning and I had very high hopes. I really, really enjoyed this like really tense, there's like no music for this entire sequence like it's very unsettling. They keep doing like extreme close up. So just keep getting more and more extreme on their— JAZZA:  Yes. ROWAN:  —faces and very straight-on talking to each other. There is this real tension of a guy with Dave Batista's physique, with his the strength that he has, with his tattoos and with this very like still gentle calmness that you are so aware any second could just turn, and like that kid is dead. And so there's—you really do not know anything about this man, you don't know what his intentions are. And I think that also this idea of like there's a child who is on their own, who's being talked to by a stranger is like inherently a troubling tension-filled moment. I really thought it was interesting that they had this moment at the beginning where Wen basically tells him about having two dads and then it's like, all the Disney channel kids have one dad [24:43] JAZZA:  My teacher keeps on saying that it's so great that she— that I have two dad's, almost as if she doesn't actually think that and it's like oh, yeah. ROWAN:  Yeah. I was like Wen, you smart little cookie. But I like that little bit of commentary. JAZZA:  I love the little detail. They start showing things and I totally believe that Wen's favorite movie is Kiki's Delivery Service. I just loved that little detail. This opening scene had so much promise. I— It's—unfortunately the best bit of the movie. It was downhill from here for me. ROWAN:  Yes, agreed. And so they all as Jazza said, these three people come up this path and the entire mo—the entire like way through the scene, Leonard is like looking over as if he's like, waiting for something or someone. So like, again, this tension is building. And so she, very smart is like something is going on. These people do not seem nice. And so she runs to the cabin [25:35] start screaming, her dad's having a nice little bit of like wine and cheese on the back porch— JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  —to get inside because they were like— JAZZA: There's a half-eaten bowl of chocolate there as well. Like, this is [25:45] ROWAN:  Not a great time.  JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  And then like she's like, come inside, come inside. And they're obviously like, okay, kiddo, I'll come inside. And then at that point they're probably like, the Jehovah's Witnesses [25:55]  JAZZA:  Like [25:56]  really enjoy that line— ROWAN:  From the road. Like, what a—what a dedicated lot of people. And then you kind of have this scene through the door where we don't really see what's going on. We see what's happening in the cabin with Daddy Andrew and Daddy Eric, but we don't see what's going on outside, we just hear them. And it becomes apparent that although the four of them kind of working together, they've all approach together, they all have very different attitudes and ways of that they think that this is going to work like it's like good cop, bad cop, confused cop, scared cop, angry cop, so many cops out the door. And when it becomes apparent that these people are there to potentially hurt them, they can see through the window that they have weapons. They kind of go through, which I always do appreciate in these like anything that's like horror thriller type things, like useful or smart things that you would do in this scenario.  JAZZA:  Yeah. So they try, there's no signal on their cell phones for example. So cell phones are out of the thing. The landline has been cut, so they can't call 911. ROWAN:  They are like, okay, what if I try and escape, no, because they're surrounding the house. So there's no exits, we can go to. What if we—we just need to get to the truck to get the guns, or just one of us has to be— there's lots of like things that they're trying to figure out. But also obviously, they have like a child they're trying to protect. So like, even as they're getting the pokers for the fire, did use as makeshift weapons. You're so aware that one of them is like holding a child, and so— JAZZA:  Yeah, yeah, yeah. ROWAN:  —like his swing is always going to be inhibited by wanting to protect her first. Like, it's very much, they're doing all that they can but very quickly are essentially overpowered. And we get into the bit that again is spoiled by literally the tru— like you know that these people if you watch the trailer, we're gonna get into this house and tie them up. So in terms of the tension here, was that any not necessary? But during this altercation, where the rest of them storm into this house break in.  what [27:52] Eric and or Andrew gets a concussion. Which one is it, which one's [27:55] JAZZA:  Eric. ROWAN:  [27:56] Eric. JAZZA:  The boring one. The boring one who they should have just killed at the beginning because he was fucking useless. Really dramatically, like a typical gay, falls over, gets a concussion, and then can't look in bright lights and then starts having visions. They should have just— as soon as they asked which one of you dies, Andrew should have gone Eric. I'll kill Eric, that's fine. End of movie. ROWAN:  That was the short—that was a short film version, but they— JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  —decided to make a feature so this continued. So we also get the first of what I've labeled the sad gay flashbacks. Where we just have a series of flashbacks to various sad moments in the gay's lives. Some of them are happy moments, but um, so this first one is basically Daddy Andrews's parents are mean and homophobic. And Daddy Eric is too damn hopeful. He thought that they could learn the error of their ways and be nice and not homophobic. But Daddy Eric was wrong people are trash. Back to the present. JAZZA:  By the way, these flashbacks apart from one, which I will talk about later. I feel like they do zero for this. ROWAN:  Absolutely nothing. JAZZA:  Absolutely nothing like I think that there is something to say for not trying to make sure that there is a robust backstory for empathy building with these characters. But I think that that actually is already kind of happening and especially the guy whose plays Andrew— ROWAN:  He's great. JAZZA:  —Ben Aldridge carries— ROWAN:  He carries the movie. JAZZA:  Like I think he really does he—he and young Wen, Kristen Cui. They carry this whole movie. Otherwise, it would have been like stilted, awkward, purely utilitarian, kind of like dialogue.  ROWAN:  Yeah. JAZZA:  That I thought it just wasn't delivered particularly—particularly well. ROWAN:  This is also the point of the second flashback where Andrew first decides to accuse them. Because as far as he's aware, some people have come into the house. They are talking about the apocalypse, all of this shit. They maybe want to hurt him and his family. They tied him up and he's like, you are a bunch of homophobe.  I mean, it's just a very—a very great, very like, get out, I would have voted for Obama [30:05] if I could energy. Has been like, I don't have a homophobic bone in my body. I would never— how dare you accuse us of being queer bashes, as I— JAZZA:  Yes. ROWAN:  —literally gave your husband concussion, but not for the gay reason. JAZZA:  It's just because you've been chosen by God. ROWAN:  Just because you're chosen special family. Chosen by God to be killed, which is very gay of you. But that's not [30:30]— JAZZA:  Very on brand. ROWAN:  —what we think, which I loved. And so I—I wrote this point, oh, maybe the twist because I didn't—we never— the only thing we didn't really get in the trailers was like, what the big choice was, what the decision was. You just got you and your family have to make a decision. So at this point, in my mind, I'm going oh, do the family have to kill these four? Because the four of them were looking really scared and freaked out. And like, so I was like, okay, this is where my mind is going at this point. And I guess that acting was good because they're scared [31:00] because they will have to die. But it turns out that wasn't a twist at all. They just killed themselves. So that was point—that was guest one from Rowan in her notes. JAZZA:  I will— I will say. So I—usually our roles, the two of us are, Rowan knows what the twist is and how the murder gets solved or whatever, 10 minutes into the movie. I don't understand what's happened until somebody explains it to me afterward. In this film, as soon as they tie them up, I was like, oh, they're gonna make them—they're gonna make them kill one another. Like, I— immediately got it. And I hadn't seen the trailer.  ROWAN:  No, no. This is immediately what I thought. But then I was like, stupidly, but the twist [31:45], there has to be a twist. JAZZA:  I get it. Okay. ROWAN:  So I was like, here are my twist guesses? So essentially, yeah they—they say, hey, buddies, your cute little family of three, that just happens to be a same-sex couple, nothing to do with our prejudices. Or—you got to pick one of you guys to kill, you have to do it willingly, and you have to kill each other. We can't kill you, and we can't choose. How's this gonna go, is that the four of us, we're going to ask you four times, who would you pick? And every time you say, I don't want to pick, something bad is gonna happen. And the bad thing is that we'll basically kill ourselves in front of you. And or like, the others will kill whoever is going to die at this point. And we will basically wipe out like a quarter of the population of the entire planet from that.  JAZZA:  Kinda. ROWAN:  Which really—I was like confused because I was like, well, is your death causing the destruction of the planet? Like, do you—could you just like not die and then the planet doesn't get destroyed? Like how does the functioning of this work? And then I very quickly was like, Rowan, listen, this movie is not about actually thinking about it. Don't think about it.  JAZZA:  Yeah.  So there's four of them. There's Leonard, who is played by Dave Batista. Redmond is played by Ron Weasley. And then there's Adrian and Sabrina played by Abby Quinn and Nikki Amuka Bird, respectively. They kind of like present themselves saying like a little bit about themselves really awkwardly. I don't know, what are they? Because I'm— I'm sure I've seen Rupert Grint acts before. And this wasn't good. And I don't understand what it was. And maybe it was like a character decision because it was a real problem for the Four Horsemen because they're— they're representative for four horsemen of the apocalypse. The four horsemen and the way that they kind of like engaged with one another and with their captors, it just felt so off. And like it didn't have any kind of like emotion behind it. It was very strange. ROWAN:  I think that in part that was because we were never getting anything from their point of view, it was always from I mean, maybe it was from Andrew's point of view. And so we were always being shown them where they were trying to present a—would there— they were trying to be persuasive. As for people who were not like naturally persuasive, so it doesn't necessarily have that authenticity of like when they're alone. So like we kind of hear them talking alone, but it's always like in the background of what's going on with Andrew and Eric, it's like just whispering that like over here. So I feel like yeah, we didn't really get a sense of them as like actual people beyond this, because we never got to see them talking in like a natural way.  JAZZA:  Yeah. [theme] JAZZA:  Hello, friends Jazza here for the ad read, as returning listeners will know we are part of Multitude, a collective of creators who make stuff for your ears. And this week we have something very exciting to announce. Merchandise, you asked and we listened. Multitude merch it's—it's finally here my loves. You can grab a Multitude logo tee or a crewneck sweatshirt now in our DFTBA store. And there's actually more merch in there now, and it's always being updated. I'm gay, I suppose. So I'm bloody obsessed with the fact that our friends at the Spirits podcast now have their own tarot card deck, which is exactly what I need to make all of my life decisions. As a reminder, all multi-crew members at the $10 tier and up get 10% off all Multitude logo merch, always. So are you Team tee, team crewneck? Or are you something else? Tag Multitude on your socials once you have your merch so that we can settle the debate once and for all. We would like to thank the Dot Gay Domain. Yeah, It's real, for sponsoring this episode. As the first top-level domain dedicated to the LGBTQ-plus communities, Dot Gay [35:53]  [35:54] you stay.com Sashay away. Since launching in 2020, over 18,000 individuals, organizations, and businesses like even Target, Tarjay, have registered a Dot Gay domain name, and they're just getting started. 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Okay, we can get back to the show now.  [theme] JAZZA:  So this is where my— this is my party and its aftermath and the party is the death of Ron Weasley. ROWAN:  I mean, yeah, sure. JAZZA:  Because this is the first place for me where I laughed, where I shouldn't have laugh.  ROWAN:  The first place love that energy. JAZZA:  Like Ron Weasley has to be murdered because the gays said they're not going to kill one another. And the bit that I laugh at is where the producer finishes off. Ron Weasley, and then picks up his legs. And then the camera tracks as he drags him out onto the patio, past two windows and then just drops his legs. And I just the—the visual of it absolutely sent me. I was inappropriately cackling through the whole dragging scene in the cinema, everybody hated me. ROWAN:  I love that. So yeah, sorry, Ron, you're dead. You die pretty early. You had a good run, being angry man in the corner because Ron's character was just angry that— that was his character at that point, was just angry, grumpy man, that was it. JAZZA:  He's meant to be wrath or something like that. They then turn on the telly and they see that oh, look, there's been earthquakes and there is tsunamis. Despite the fact that the first of those earthquakes, this is one of the plot holes. And the plot holes that really annoyed me. Were the first two like plagues that they released onto humanity, by not sacrificing one another? The first one is two earthquakes that cause two tsunamis that happen— the first of which happens four hours before they turn on the telly. Which means what it can't have been triggered by the gays. And then the second one is a type of like flu, is like an— it's a bird flu or something like that. That for some reason has an epicenter in Suffolk.  ROWAN:  Classic Suffolk. JAZZA:  Classic Suffolk. But that has also been happening for several months already. And so also isn't caused by the gays. There is like a wider conversation around like the religious zealot nests of gay marriage causes natural disasters. ROWAN:  I love that. JAZZA:  I think there is like an opportunity for a meta-commentary about that here, but I'm not going to make it. ROWAN:  I also— my favorite bit of this whole section was that the newscaster got— well first of all the [40:53] add to that place before— JAZZA:  [40:55] ROWAN:  [40:55] and then that— which is it's the directors are coming out right?  JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  Yeah, yeah, yeah. JAZZA:  Yeah it's nice in there, yeah. ROWAN:  I was like I—that looks like the director. So I just really liked that it was like that was a choice that they made, where they're like waiting for the breaking news to happen. But during the newscast, the woman goes just short moments ago, we have footage and I'm like, that's not short moments ago, because that person who took that footage is fully dead. Like they— JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  —they get consumed by the tsunami. They weren't then like in the tsunami being like Better Texas, it's ABC News. And it wasn't even like [41:29] JAZZA:  I guess they could do live streaming. Yeah.  ROWAN:  Well, the thing is, normally when that happens, you have like live stream, but I was like, this is just so ridiculous. But I was like, you know what, the film was ridiculous, I'm getting into it. Also, like a lot of the tone of the— for kind of people who have come to this cabin. These—with these weird moments of comedy, of awkwardness, that I was never quite sure whether I was meant to be laughing out. So I was like, la— sometimes laughing in my head, I don't think I ever laughed out loud. But like, it was such a strange tone that I really wasn't sure what was going on, or what I was meant to be thinking. But yeah, just that really sent me. We also at this point, essentially, they're like, we're on a clock, we're on a timer. But actually, you know what, we're gonna have to break overnight like we actually end of our shift. So you guys have a little chat? JAZZA:  Yeah, yeah, yeah. actually, [42:14] see you in the morning. ROWAN:  See you in the morning gang. And we find out that Eric is definitely—we know from a flashback that his religious. And so I think at this point we're starting—they're like slowly creeping in the potential that Eric could be— JAZZA:  He's the weakest link, kill the fucker, kill Eric. ROWAN:  —persuaded he's the weakest link. I then put my second prediction, which was Eric is one of these religious bitches. So I thought because he kept asking— JAZZA:  That would have been good. ROWAN:  I kept— he kept asking questions about the— so at first, I predicted that right at the beginning when they have that moment of being like, oh, you can pray if you want to. And they tell him about the visions they've been having, which is like them predicting, prophesizing, what's going to happen, and how it all matches up. And he says something like, dreams can mean lots of things. And I was like, oh, I think he's been having these dreams., and he's persuade—like his—like Andrew has persuaded him, like this is because you're stressed like, these don't mean anything. And he's trying to persuade himself, and I fully thought that he also had been having these dreams. That was prediction fun twist number two, that didn't happen. So then we get a flashback to them in the car. And the—it's just them being cute and singing, and coming to the cabin and that child actor who plays he—who plays Wen looks directly into the camera almost for that entire sequence, and I loved it so much. They're singing karaoke and she keeps clearly being directed to look at either of the dads, but between them is the camera and she just spends most of the time looking directly at the audience. JAZZA:  I didn't notice that at all [43:45] ROWAN:  It was stunning, I love her. They also—at this point are talking about being a rat in the flashback, talking about being in the cabin, and I got what I thought was going to be a really fun Chekhov's gun situation, where they are joking about whether there are like bears in the area. And one of the dads is like we know we'll be safe we won't need the garbage out. And I was like Ron, Ron's gonna get eaten by a bear. There's gonna be some bear situation that's going to happen like we won't need the garbage out. But there's literally a dead body waiting to be eaten by a bear. Like something is happening. That never came back again, that was wrong as well. JAZZA:  Ohh, an army of bears, um like— ROWAN:  I really was like waiting for [44:19] JAZZA:  [44:19] of [44:20] could have turned up. Or I was thinking like some level that bear daddies could have trotted up and saved them [44:28] ROWAN:  That would have been even better, but no. We also at this point, like the whole movie is just them being in this cabin. One by one, these people are killing themselves. They have various escape attempts. So at first, Wen tries to like climb into the basement and run but ends up getting captured. We also find out that Andrew has had an experience of gay bashing in the past, and that he is convinced— he suddenly realizes that he recognizes Ron Weasley because he looks a little bit different— JAZZA:  From the Harry Potter movies. ROWAN:  From the Harry Potter movies, but he's like— but also he was the guy who beat me up. JAZZA:  Yeah.  ROWAN:  And put me in hospital and put me through like this horrible like PTSD experience I have to have therapy for. And we also get a flashback where we can't quite see his face. So again, it's like oh, is it really him? Is he miss remembering because of his trauma? What's going on? And then—then we start questioning like are these people actually, you know, it's this all a coincidence, because did Ron tell them that he'd been having a dream about the cabin when they were chatting on the little [45:29]  where they all met. And then they suddenly started having the dream because he planted the idea in their heads. And very quickly that's all squashed and it's like no, no, it's— it's that's not what was happening at all, that the apocalypse is really going on. That switch and bait was kind of pointless for a second, don't worry about it— JAZZA:  Yeah. ROWAN:  —we're back on track. The apocalypse is definitely happening. Let's kill some more of these people. JAZZA:  Yeah, and the next one to die is Adrian. And as she dies, this flu that has existed for several months up until this point is then reported on the TV. Andrew end up, they're like really angry saying that these are obviously coincidences, this saying suggesting that these are pre-recorded broadcasts, that they are just turning on. And they're timing everything specifically for—for specific newscasts. And Sabrina, one of the two remaining, I'm going to underscore the horsemen. ROWAN:  Yeah, yeah, yeah. JAZZA:  Is bandaging up Eric and describing the vision that she's had, and how they ended up kind of like finding each other online, making them sound. This is the thing, if they had been hammered this idea more that they were people who were radicalized and made it feel more obvious to the viewer that oh, these are some people who have been radicalized online, like Q anon style vibes. That would have made the conclusion of the movie more—more, not necessarily surprising, but more interesting. And you kind of have it seated, but I don't think it comes across strongly you know? ROWAN:  Yeah. JAZZA:  Eventually, Andrew ends up escaping after Wen starts screaming for cartoons and distracts the rest of them. And Andrew somehow, like sneaks past them despite the fact that they're literally feet away from one another. He gets the car, gets his gun that was in the back that he carries around since he was gay bashed for his own protection, shoots. But [47:15], she stabs him. They end up going back into the cabin and then he actually does shoot and kill Sabrina. Sabrina's now dead. ROWAN:  Here are my notes for this section.  JAZZA:  Right. ROWAN:  Ron, Andrew, Sabrina, you hit him.  JAZZA:  Okay. ROWAN:  Get the gun. Hurry with that gun. Get the fucking gun. Stop stabbing him. Baby got the gun. She ran away. Oh, no flat tire. That's—that's what I wrote down, some very important intellectual notes about that whole section. And then I put, why are you threatening Leonard, just kill him. JAZZA:  Yeah, right. Just shoot the fucker. ROWAN:  Just shoot the fucker. JAZZA:  He—he does say—he does say we don't want to be a murderer like you all are. ROWAN:  But then okay, this is the thing that's really weird as well, is that they have this whole thing where they're trying to persuade us like Andrew doesn't give a shit about humanity. Like he's this jaded motherfucker. He doesn't give a shit. He'll let humanity burn if it will save his family. And he can't shoot one dude. That doesn't seem— that doesn't seem in line with his character, Bishop. JAZZA:  So Sabrina got— got sho, she's now dead. For some reason, they always have to kind of like, finish them off, even though they're clearly already dead. But Leonard— ROWAN:  That'd be thorough. JAZZA:  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Make sure that the job is done. He wraps it up in a blanket and sticks you into the—into the other room. But then Eric and Andrew, lock Leonard in the bathroom because they're going to run and try and go to the truck that the four horsemen must have arrived here with. ROWAN:  And when they put them him in the bathroom, there is just a very visible human-sized hole of a window. JAZZA:  Sure, sure. But—it so—so Leonard smashes this window, making it seem like he's managed to escape. He's huge. He wouldn't fit through that window. And so it's just obvious. ROWAN:  It's a normal human-sized window, not a Dave-sized window. JAZZA:  Not a Dave sized— sized window. And so they end up like wrestling to the ground. ROWAN:  Classic gay movie stuff, wrestling to be fair. JAZZA:  Yeah.  ROWAN:  [49:30] JAZZA:  They don't—they don't kiss. ROWAN:  They don't kiss though, which is normally— normally the boys wrestle and then they kiss in this situations. But no kisses, only gun grabbing happening here. JAZZA:  And then after Sabrina dies, this is the second time that I unintentionally cackled to myself in the movie. When we have the footage of all of the planes falling from the sky— ROWAN:  Weeee. JAZZA:  I did. It just looked—the CGI looked so bad— ROWAN:  It looks very bad.  JAZZA:  It just looked so silly to me. And there's people looking up in like horror, obviously, because like 700 planes are falling from the sky. But I just think the whole thing—the tone was just so off. So that's like the third and now we just have Leonard and this is where my act three, begins. [theme] JAZZA:  And my act three is, just kill Eric already. ROWAN:  Yeah, fair.  So at this point, it's like, okay, the planes are falling from the sky. Literally, there's like lightning and thunder everywhere. The darkness is descending, everything is going [50:37] So it's like, okay, the apocalypse is definitely happening. We have a choice to make. Leonard at this point is just like chilling out in the rocking chair. I guess I assume if he—if he wants a nice final moments, helping himself to that wine, cheese, and chocolate that they left help her at the beginning of the movie. JAZZA:  Yeah, what a weird guy. ROWAN:  And essentially is like, hey, guys. So hopefully you're persuaded by now. I still have to die, I guess. RIP, [51:03] for me. But please, also, you'll have a little bit after I die. Please kill each oth— like kill at least one of you guys. And there's a line again that in my head, I was like, oh, this is interesting. Which is Eric says to Wen, go to the tree house until one of us comes to get you. JAZZA:  Yeah, he's [51:21] ROWAN:  And was like it's like my baby about to die. And I was right for once. And then at this point, I put RIP Leonard. Every time someone died, I just put RIP, you know res— you gotta respect the horsemen.  JAZZA:  Yeah, exactly. ROWAN:  And then I said, but it finishes this time with RIP Leonard, hello darkness, my old friend. Because as soon as he dies, quite literally, the sky turns black. Just because of you know, we lost—we lost a bad boy, and the earth couldn't cope. So essentially, this then becomes this weirdly like heavy-handed, strange, extended, not even a metaphor, like sym—symbolism or a lesson to be learned. I don't know what it was. About, like the one gay who hates humanity because he was gay bashed and blames other people. The other gay who's a religious boy, who sees the best in other people— JAZZA:  Sacrifice himself.  ROWAN:  And he also— he's Jesus, I guess. JAZZA:  Jesus was gay.  ROWAN:  [52:15] JAZZA:  [52:16] being single in that economy. ROWAN:  Right? And it's just like, they're not— like they hate us, they're monsters. Like all of these homophobes, the whole world is homophobic and hates me particularly. Like,I love humanity, I hate humanity conversation. JAZZA:  So this actually—this was the— this was the thing I wanted to talk about.  ROWAN:  Ooh, you want to do it now? JAZZA:  Because like— Yeah. So I think that there was something potentially really interesting that could have played with the idea of the paranoia that you have from be— having grown up in a homophobic community, in a homophobic culture. Where your guard is always up, you don't trust others. And you like, for example, when Andrew automatically goes to, oh, you're hurt, because you're homophobic, and you think that we should die and that they're religious zealots. And that bad faith assessment that they have, because of the terrible experiences that Andrew specifically in this case, but queer people in general have gone through, he automatically then sees the worst in any confrontation that he ends up having. It made me think when we saw the Ron Weasley attacking him scene. And then the next scene is him purchasing a gun, it made me think of—so I made a documentary after [53:36] shootings in Florida. And then the increase in gun use amongst the elderly, or registration of guns among the LGBTQ-plus community. And that desire for you to take that power and agency back from this culture that has taken away safety from you. And therefore you need to be able to make yourself hard and make yourself battle ready. We see him training to be a boxer as well, so that he's able to defend himself, and therefore his family. And I think that there was a real potential here with this character, with Andrews's character to be like, oh, I have to— like, what is the thing that I am defending? Is it me, or is it this thing that I have built? And I think that the movie falls flat on that, but there was such potential for that theme of like, the tragedy of being a queer person growing up in a homophobic culture. And what that does to you in not being able to really kind of like experience life in a joyful way. So that was my little extra bit, but it doesn't do that. ROWAN:  No. And I also think that that has been slightly— like that very legitimate, like element and experience, kind of almost has been, like co-opted by this. Like, I feel like I've seen multiple sketch shows, where you have the gay character who preemptively assumes homophobia or the black character who preemptively assumes, like racism, where it's like, oh, is it because I'm black? Is because I'm gay? Oh, this is I'm a woman, isn't it? And so that is become such a like, catch-all, gotcha where you can legitimately point it out without it being like, you're paranoid. You're crazy. Like— JAZZA:  Yeah, it's not because you're gay, it's because God's chose you. ROWAN:  Yeah, it's like, really— I feel like it would be a really tricky one to do, without either legitimizing the idea that like, literally the entire world is out to get you and everyone is homophobic, but also legitimizing the very real dangers and fear that can be present, and like the psychological experience of like, extreme chronic stress that you can have from this constitution, which I think is something that like a lot of marginalized people go through. But yeah, you're right, it didn't happen. So you know what— JAZZA:  Oh, well.  ROWAN:  Oh, well. JAZZA:  And then finally, let's wrap this shit up. ROWAN:  Wrap it up. Finally, finally, thank God, Eric's dead.  JAZZA:  Eric's dead. ROWAN:  Andrew killed him just in case you [56:04] it wasn't—Wen didn't kill him, Wen is in the tree house. JAZZA:  [56:08] There'll be a cool twist out of it. ROWAN:  She would have been like, I can't let you choose between—she's like still this little eight-year-old being like, fathers, daddies, I would never let you choose for that would be the most awful torture of all, I will decide which Daddy dies today. JAZZA:  I— I read, I actually kind of part of me really, really wanted that. Especially because she was really affected by the fact that all of the kids were dying from the bird flu. And I would have liked it if she just taken the gun and shot Eric in the head. but anyway. ROWAN:  Oh my god, that would been great. JAZZA:  So we have like this weird post—post-apocalyptic scenes where they go to a— they take the truck to a diner, and we are told literally by one of the NPCs.  ROWAN:  Yep.  JAZZA:  Oh, everything's gonna be okay now ROWAN:  That accent, I can only assume will be improving as you continue to live in New York. JAZZA:  I fucking hope not. And then when they return to the truck, they play—they turn on the radio and this song called Boogie Shoes comes on [57:13] which was shown in a flashback beforehand. ROWAN:  Where she looked at the camera all the time. Yeah.  JAZZA:  Yeah. Where she looks at the camera, and then they drive off. ROWAN:  The end. There was one last moment where I thought, huh, interesting. Because as far as I could tell, that's raining during that entire end sequence.  JAZZA:  Oh yeah, oh yeah. ROWAN:  And her dress and his shirt is just bone dry the entire time. Until I think they get into the cafe, and then suddenly, I think they're like, slightly damp. But I think it was just a continuity error, you know what I mean? Same with like, there's a moment where their hands get tied in front of them, but then suddenly, their hands are tied behind them stuff like that. But no, it was just continuity. It wasn't some like secret thing about reality, or what was real or a twist. It's just simply the end of the movie now. Also, I wrote down. So one of the funny things is with the burial gays trope. I did a video a while ago that essentially analyzed like these, the separate instances of like, what counts as burial gays, and what the different like most common uses for it are. And one of the really big ones in the start of like, queer representation that was being more sympathetic in sort of like the 90s and onwards, was this idea of like, the gay character dies in order to, like, teach everyone else a lesson about like, the value of life and love. And I was like, oh, no, this is like the ultimate version of don't worry, the gay one will die, but the rest of us can go on and learn to appreciate life on this planet even more. JAZZA:  [58:37]  ROWAN:  Oh, my God imagine. Truly [58:41] Four Weddings and a Funeral. Just—there's so many insane examples. My absolute favorite one is in supernatural, there are these characters called a thing they called the ghost faces. And one of them dies, and there's literally a line that's like, gay love, like save to the world. Just because like the power of gay love, like prevented the apocalypse or whatever, because he just dies. So yeah, that was the movie, that was the end. JAZZA:  Thank God.  ROWAN:  Yeah.  JAZZA:  Shall we go into ratings? ROWAN:  Let's do it. [theme] JAZZA:  When we rate each of the movies that we talk about and review on this podcast, we use the six bars of the rainbow flag and we give a certain number of bars and certain colors. Does that make sense? It will in a minute. So we can give any combination of red which means life, orange, which means healing, yellow, which means sun, green, which means nature, blue, that means harmony, and purple, that means spirit. ROWAN:  How many bars are you going to give it, Jazza? JAZZA:  I'm gonna give it yellow, and that's it. Um because— ROWAN:  [59:49] JAZZA:  The sunlight— ROWAN:  I'm also going to give it yellow and I think we have the exact same reasoning. JAZZA:  So the late—the golden hour, kind of like lighting that comes through the window. ROWAN:  Yeah, [1:00:01] JAZZA:  Shines, yesss. ROWAN:  It was tasty.  JAZZA:  It was so good. It was the only good thing about the movie and the Grasshopper scene actually. So maybe if quite liked this movie more, I did given it green as well for nature, but no, it's just getting yellow. ROWAN:  Yeah, I fully agree, and sunlight for that exact reason. It was some beautiful shots in the bathroom. That again, I was looking at and I was like, I want to find some meaning behind this. One of you is in light, one of you is in shadow. Like what's happening here? There's some interesting colors. There was a whole moment where Eric talks about seeing a figure in the light that I guess was Jesus and— JAZZA:

In which Princess dives deep into her bisexual awakening - from badly censored anime to Emma Watson's eyebrows! Check out our Patreon - there are cool perks and you help support the podcast! https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast We're a serious podcast and have a sponsor, SquareSpace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. Find Us Online - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  - Multitude: @MultitudeShows   Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd   About The Show Queer Movie Podcast is a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we research and rate our way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to black & white classics, Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things gaaaaay on the silver screen. New episodes every other Thursday.   Transcript ROWAN:  Just quick mention at the top of this episode to thank two of our patrons over on Patreon, Jennifer and Toby who are supporting at the highest tier over there. We are so, so grateful. Thank you so much to our wonderful rainbow parents, Jennifer and Toby. If you want to support our Patreon then the link will be in the description. It's patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast. [theme] ROWAN:  Welcome to the Queer Movie Podcast celebrating the best and worst and LGBTQ plus cinema one glorious genre at a time. I'm Rowan Ellis and I would like to welcome you to one of our guest specials. Oooh, very exciting. And today we are joined by, as usual, a very special guest who will be answering the question, what movies made you queer? I am very excited to welcome Princess, wooo! Popopow. Yay! PRINCESS:  Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to finally be here with you. I wanted to be talking to you and doing stuff with you forever. But we always are just so busy. And everything's so chaotic. So it's an honor to be queer here with you. ROWAN:  Oh my gosh, like ships in the night. I mean, I feel like in these podcasts with these guests, I always forget to actually introduce people because it's mainly like this is a cool person that I know about. And then I—I never actually do the proper podcasting of introducing them. So if you don't already know who Princess is, for shame, writer, YouTuber, pop culture thinker was the direct quote I believe. And I actually pulled up the quote from your YouTube channel, which I think is like chef's kiss, which is talking about pop culture, race, feminism, and other social issues with a lot of nuance and profanity.  Incredible. PRINCESS:  Yes. I— I do— ROWAN:  Love that. PRINCESS:  —I do love that. Sometimes I write something I'm like, that was good. I think that this is solid description. ROWAN:  So essentially, honestly, if you like this podcast, if you like anything that Me or Jazza do on the internet, you will love everything that our guest does. Across the entirety of the internet, so many projects. We'll leave in the show notes various links for you to look up what she's doing. First question for you, the first question we always do on this particular type of guest episode. I use queer in that intro as kind of like an umbrella catch-all term, you know, the movies that made me queer. But do you use other words to describe your identities? Does that make sense as a question for you? Or would there be some other kind of words going on there? PRINCESS:  No, absolutely. I use queer and Bi all the time. I am a very loud, proud stereotype bisexual person. And I love it. It's the term that I came into my queerness with. So even as I've evolved in people of like, well, what about pan or this, and it's like, I accept all those terms. But I call myself Bi and queer. And yeah, just very happy with. Happy being Bi. ROWAN:  Amazing, love that. And as such, you have bought along, I don't know what these are. I love when like all the guests keep up secret from me beforehand. And so it's always really fun to see what stuff people overlap on, because I feel like there's a lot of quite classic, especially the bisexuals. You do—there's a few that you all seem to have zoned in like some kind of homing beacon onto certain characters and certain movies. And then sometimes there are really left-to-field ones. So would you like to lay before me on the platter of sexuality, your first entry into this particular podcast vault? PRINCESS:  Well, I have to say, it's a precursor to this. I think like every—every queer kid can go back and find like, a billion moments where they're like, oh, yeah, like this because I was clear. Oh, yeah, I've totally quit that's why I like this. And for me, the thing I picked is the moment where I was just like, all of the denial just kind of like flushed down the toilet. And I was just like, well, it's no—I can no longer pretend that this is just - ROWAN:  The floodgates have opened. PRINCESS:  Just truly, fully opened. And it is— not even the movie itself, but the trailer for A24's, The Bling Ring. ROWAN:  Wow! What a deep call. What a throwback. Incredible Okay, so for those who don't know, what—what is The Bling Ring, if no one—somehow, someone has passed them by? PRINCESS:  Oh man, a true moment. Alright, so in 2013, Sofia Coppola, the soft girl boss directed at she is did an adaptation of the Vanity Fair article. The suspects were Louis Vittons about this—this gang quote-unquote, like “this gang of like rich kids” who were going into the homes of celebrities and stealing stuff from the celebrities. Purses, shoes, like it was chaotic. And it was a huge story. And in 2013 Sofia Coppola produced the film, and in the film playing one of the token members of The Bling Ring is Emma Watson. There's a scene in the trailer where Emma Watson is like, dancing and she does this thing where she like licks her upper lip and she's got like bangs, like she's like in the dance floor, she's having a good time. It's just kind of like licks her upper lip And I just remember thinking to myself like, oh, no, it's—oh no, it's finally—it's like the egg cracked, there was no—there was no more denial. There was no more like, oh, maybe I'm just—no, I was a homosexual. And I think it's because I always had a crush on Emma Watson. ROWAN:  Very valid of you. PRINCESS:  Thank you, um, in that front, but like, in a way where it's like I was always a girl's, girl. I always had female friends. I always wanted to be in the company ship of other women. So it was very easy for me to just be like, I just want to like be her best friend. And we could read books together, and we could like hang out like she likes to read, I like to read. You know, that kind of thing. And then first—the first thing that she did, was she got that haircut. When she like—after she was done filming that franchise. She cut her hair into this very cute like Audrey Hepburn, Anne Hathaway bob. And her face just like 10 times, just was like in my—in my mind, It's like, wow, she's so pretty. Wow! And I was like, no, it's fine. It's just—I'm just admiring her. ROWAN:  I just really love to admire people who can pull off pixie cuts. Like uh—it's just an intellectual admiration of that face type. PRINCESS:  Exactly.  ROWAN:  Yeah, of course. PRINCESS:  And so—and so—but then when The Bling Ring trailer came out, and I saw that lip lick, I thought I really realized oh, no, I'm getting, and I have a crush on Emma Watson for real, for real. ROWAN:  I love that.  PRINCESS:  And even though I don't particularly like The Bling Ring as a movie, that moment is imprinted on my soul forever. That—when I was sitting in bed thinking about like, we're gonna be talking about Xena again, or Sailor Moon, and I just like, I started reading some fanfiction, and then I was like, man, I really do still have a thing for Emma Watson. ROWAN:  Alright. Okay, here's what's so funny. I've never actually seen The Bling Ring. I think I would love it because it gives me the sense of like a movie that would really tickle the ADHD, like good bit of my brain in terms of it being just fairytale taken fast, basically. Like, that seems like there's probably been a lot of that happening in that movie. So I haven't actually seen the film. But I know the exact moment in that trailer that you are talking. I'm like, yep, I can see it clear as day. And I think it was that like, at least from my recollection. She did the like pixie cut and stuff, which was sort of like her version of I'm grown up now. Like I'm separating myself from this franchise, it is a child. But I feel like Bling Ring was the first like role that she took that was like overtly sexy. I'm here. I'm like an adult. PRINCESS:  Yes.  ROWAN:  And so it was obviously like, we're going hard on the idea of like, this is me stepping into my own. And she seems to have really put herself into that role. So— PRINCESS:  Yeah. ROWAN:  —it was just inevitable. PRINCESS:  It was inevitable. It was like—it was the definitely hollow movies came out. Then she was in Perks of Being a Wallflower. Then this and her cameo. And this is the end came in like the same year. And then you know, she's on and off for a while. I don't think she's done anything since Little Women. But she's just like, I think also, even though I don't like to her, how her Belle came together in the movie. I think like as a kid, like, I'd always love Belle from Beauty and the Beast. And in my mind, she and Belle, and like Audrey Hepburn and kind of like all of the like warm, soft white girl femme things that I'm really am attracted to, were like all combined in my mind with her because she was smart and a feminist and someone who just seemed very aware and even when she wasn't trying to get aware. And then what is even more peak bisexuals, that I always had a crush on her and Tom Felton. And then they had that—they had that whole back and forth thing where like she wrote the intro to his memoir. And I just remember like, just like giggling when I found that out. And then I was like, what's wrong with you? Like you don't understand! Everything Bi in me is so pleased right now, that they're like, friends. ROWAN:  A piece of context that I collect, everyone needs if you aren't familiar with the fact that Tom like the—I feel like the way that Princess has just told this story as if it's like some kind of historical event.  PRINCESS:  I know. ROWAN:  Like his book came out this year. Like that—that reaction is still within you—within your like very being, it feels like. PRINCESS:  It's—it's because, you know, for all of the things that I—that I—there are some fandoms that I really became queer in, or that I recognize my queerness in. And the things that I would ship and the—in the content I would consume. And so like the Draco, Hermione stuff, which is you know, very problematic hashtag I know. But because I had a crush on Emma Watson and Tom Felton as like people. It was like this perfect like blanket for me. And then there was although—there are always those rumors that like she had a crush on him in real life, which was confirmed. And so that brought me into a whole fit of giggles. And then I remember a couple years ago there was this image that one of them put on Instagram of like him teaching her the guitar, and like my entire like heart went into outer space. And then when the memoir came out, and I just—and I'm just like, wow! Emma Watson it—like their friendship just makes my heart very happy. But I just love the things that she's doing outside of acting. And I think The Bling Ring was the moment that I allowed myself to be like, no, I really have a crush on this girl. And it's weird because it's the first time I've ever had a crush on someone who was like my age, a real person and not a cartoon character. And someone who for my entire life had been like, both my age and a celebrity. Because I remember just the process happening and figuring out who this person wasn't it, which just very like. It was overwhelming. I think it's— I feel like that's probably how fed, the Jonas Brothers must feel. Who were like around the age when those, that's how I felt? Like Emma was all the Jonas's in one. ROWAN:  Roll into one girl. The thing that was like so interesting, as well as that they were, like worldwide known celebrities, but felt very accessible in a strange way. Like felt like, just like, oh, I just got picked as a child to be in this, this movie series. And I'm— I don't know it's all just a little bit crazy, isn't it? And now I'm like going on these fun little shows. And so I really— it was—I definitely think that, that, that she has been a —as well as just being a very, very lovely looking gal. PRINCESS:  So lovely looking gal. ROWAN:  That you know for a long time we've really overlooked the fact that she entirely acts with her eyebrows. PRINCESS:  Her and my girl Emilia Clarke those M's. They just love— but you know what the brows are free. It's fine. ROWAN:  It's— it's very—there are like—there is this one, she was in this. I think it was a BBC adaptation of Ballet Shoes.  PRINCESS:  Yes. Mmm. ROWAN:  Yes. Oh my god. That is peak Emma Watson eyebrow acting, and you could almost if you—like it would be dangerous playing a drinking game with it because you would— like it would—you would be absolutely wrecked by like the third scene. And then within it she plays a girl who loves—who wants to be an actor. And then she like doubles down on the eyebrows cheering, she does like a monologue from Puck PRINCESS:  Oh my goodness. ROWAN:  And it's incredible. And me and my brother like ca— it's really hard for us to watch an Emma Watson film. We have to like deliberately try to ignore her eyebrows like just cover the top half of the screen. I love that girl. And I think I agree with you in terms of like everything that she is seeming to let use her platform for and like trying to do with the fame that she got from a young age. But also I think there are just some elements of her. I'm like you, or do you just seem like a normal person?  PRINCESS:  Yeah. ROWAN:  And that it almost makes it more alluring. PRINCESS:  Yes. I think that's really true. And I think it's, I think when you compare like the Potter kid actors to like any other fandom, while there's definitely was gross. It was like the older men who were like trying to like sleep with her as soon as she turned 18. They just seem very level-headed, like it was before Instagram, before Tiktok, before we had that much accessibility. And also, I think to a degree them being British, and being around so many actors who could curate them and guide them who are these, like, you know, you've got like the best lessons ever. You have all these actors with like, decades and decades of experience under their belt, being around you to help you get through that. I think that's why most of them have turned out so well, is because they really had a lot of pragmatic, thoughtful people around them.  ROWAN:  Yeah. PRINCESS:  And I just find that so refreshing. And I think that even when I you know, I feel like if her and Emilia Clarke were in a movie that would just be like—it— that should be the trailer. It's just their eyebrows and their eyes. ROWAN:  That's all you see. PRINCESS:  Because all anyone— because that's what everyone would think about. ROWAN:  If the if— if movie poster designers had any balls like they used to, it would just be eyebrows. That's the poster.  PRINCESS:  Yeah. ROWAN:  If they— if they committed to the bid. PRINCESS:  We would love it.  ROWAN:  It wouldn't be one of these like posters with every single person's face that's on there, like, you know, the classic MCU posters now. I think specifically just when—they need to be cast together just so that we can go away. And then also, you know, it'd be great if Matt Smith was also in it. . That was just a blank space on the poster where Matt Smith belongs. PRINCESS:  Absolutely. Like you have the  the biggest like you have Amelia and Emma right here. Matt Smith on the side like a little ghost. And then you have Lily Collin just over there. no. People need to learn the art of making a great delicious poster again. Yeah. I just— you know, I think crushers are such a fun thing to look back on. Even if they are like celebrity crushes because the ability to like you get over a person was so normalized to Tumblr? That you could just be really out quietly to yourself, while still getting to appreciate these figures, and get to work out those fields. I think that's the thing that I kind of like about, the before I was a queer time in figuring out, was I got to do it by myself, you know? There wasn't a pressure that come out, cause I wasn't like anything big, the way I am now. But I really get to just enjoy, just having a crush and liking a person. But also not having to be a stan either, like I love her. I would do anything for her. but I'll still make fun of her eyebrow acting like I'm not ridiculous. ROWAN:  I kind of want to ask about the Tumblr, were you like a Tumblr teen? Is that where you were?   PRINCESS:  Oh, yeah. ROWAN:  Of course. Um, because I think that Tumblr weirdly is this kind of anonymized space, in a way in terms of fans. Like, you don't know how many followers people have. You can't tell who's like a big name in the fandom really. And then you also—there's no chance that your—people that you're a fan of will run into this content unless someone literally like showed them or they had some kind of secret Tumblr account. Whereas with the rise of Twitter, it feels like people are much more likely to be able to, like, directly try and contact people they're a fan of and like, have that kind of feel, like they might be able to have a reciprocal relationship. Do you see like a big difference between that energy that maybe I think when we were teenagers, it was more of a private thing, as it were like there was a community with the other fans and your friends as opposed to like having access to people? PRINCESS:  Well, you know, it was interesting, because I was a smaller public figure at the time, like, because I'd been doing YouTube for so long, people knew who I was. But it was a lot more people who were engaging with me in good faith. You know, like, it wasn't like, peop— there would be pushback or asking questions with the anons, but you could also turn that off. And that would immediately stop people from wanting to ask you questions because they didn't want to put their name to it. So I think even just having that option was a really good way of filtering out people who were there to troll you, or to antagonize you. And people who just really had questions to ask you. But I ended up making a lot of really good friends through Tumblr, and I think the tagging system on it was just so much better. Because if you were looking for a meta-commentary about something, you could just click on it and find that. And if you're looking for, like you know, for me, I think like something like Teen Wolf, and I was specifically looking for people who are anti-racist in that fandom. And I could just go to the tags and find who I needed and who I wanted, and soft block anyone that I didn't. And I didn't have to soft block everybody, I could just block those tags. And that would just keep me from go—like even now, like when I left— when I soft left Twitter because I still have to go on it for work. I'll go on Tumblr, and it's actually great because it's already been filtered for me. So when I go on it unless it's like a sponsor thing, I usually only see things I like, and I think that's really the ideal experience, is to just like, see the things you like when you're going online. ROWAN:  That's so true. Okay, now that you've named dropped Teen Wolf, I need to know if Teen Wolf has any part of your queer journey? The—that. PRINCESS:  No.  ROWAN:  Oooh. You know what, I love that for you. Truly. PRINCESS:  You know— you know it is is that like I, so—so I love like Teen Wolf, Merlin, a bunch of those shows. And um, but the problem was that there was just so much misogyny, and anti-blackness in those communities, that any enjoyment that I would have gotten out of some of the queer experiences were like, very thoroughly like, because—and I'm writing about this for—for my book. But like, it was just weird to see, like, like, I appreciate stearic as like a concept and a thing that people like, you know? like I get it. Like I get it. ROWAN:  That is the most diplomatic answer to like any fandom question is like, I appreciate this in theory, like I—I you know, the concept of the theory behind, but yes, entirely. I mean, Teen Wolf is pretty notorious for being this fandom, where they were like, do you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna find just two white boys who have never interacted on screen, and they be our ship. PRINCESS:  It was just like, again, I do get it because I do that with women all the time. You know, I peep— I understand the appeal of like super court for that very same reason. Y'all like two pretty white people together, that's fine. But then there'll be actual queer characters and quicker there's no color in it, and there'll be nothing. Or just a lot of harassment, because for me with it was just like, I get it. You want Arthur and Merlin to be a thing. That is not Gwen's fault, honey. Like, if Arthur was not dating Gwen, he would not be dating Merlin, because the writers of this series are cowards and will not let them be gay. Even though there are literal rules. I know there are literal books where like Arthur's is in a throttle with Lancelot and Guinevere. So it's just like, they're not doing that. But it becomes this situation where it's somehow treated like— the fight for representation can include attacking and harassing and demonizing black and brown people who are not standing in the way of your queerness. They are not doing that. They are just trying to enjoy that there's a black queen in the show. And it's like it always upsets me how the iron will go to the wrong people. And it stops you from being able to enjoy it. Because I used to like really like Stiles, on Teen Wolf. But then I began to see all these people who like, felt like liking Stiles, meant you had to like hate, Scott. And I just got slowly uncomfortable, like, we don't have that many Latino characters that get to be like really sweet himbo protagonists. Why are we acting this way? You can just like a secondary character like we all do it, we all do it. So it wasn't part of my queer experience, but it was part of like my intrasexual experience of kind of understanding what it meant to be like queer and brown in a fandom space. ROWAN:  I mean, I specifically at this point, really removed myself from any fandom spaces of something if I want to like it. I'm like, if this is the thing, I think I'm going to be a fan of, I'm outside of it. I consume it. I have my thoughts about it.  I talk to people I know about it. And then maybe I start dipping a toe into spaces when I know that like people I already follow who already talk about stuff that I like, or who have write good fanfiction, or do good fan art. If they've gotten into it, I might dip in. But like, even from the point of view of someone who's queer, and why you—like, it just completely destroys your interest in the shows to have misogyny racism. Like, homophobia, biphobia, somehow also enter these spaces that are meant to be so kind of inclusive with this idea of like fandom, being a space in which the mainstream, like lack of intersectionality, can be corrected, which I think is fandom is strongest, that when people use found it as an excuse to like double down on the kind of critiques that rightly or put against shows, it kind of just feels just the worst to me.  PRINCESS:  Yeah. ROWAN:  To be honest. PRINCESS:  Yeah. It's—it's a really interesting experience because I think that there are so many people who really come to fandom looking for a community and cannot accept that parts of their community might still have internalized issues, and , which is like every community has that. And we all in our time online, get pushback from that. And we don't always react really well, the first time it happens. We're human. But the point is that like after you sit with that for a while, are you going to like, actually address it or no? You know, how many times do you have to have fans telling you like, stop calling Gwen a gorilla before you'd realize that like, that's maybe not okay, and not helping your ship because it's not her fault that the writers don't want your characters to be gay. And I think also because queerbaiting was such a big like, this is when like Tumblr really started the queerbaiting conversation, and it got transferred onto Twitter. But I think that, because on Tumblr, you could have these long-form posts, and really get into the nitty-gritty. When we were talking about queerbaiting, we could really sit and discuss, like the specific moments and have like the gifts and everything to be like, this is what we're talking about. And because Twitter is such a shorthand thing, that term just got kind of like copy-pasted onto so many other things. And we—and you've talked about this a lot in your content, because I follow it because everyone should. Queerbaiting kind of lost its meaning as it got transferred and diluted from one space to another because you couldn't actually discuss it. You either accepted it with like a few bits of evidence, or you'd have a long thread that people would you— lose attraction for halfway through because a 10-piece thread is going to have so many different parts than one contained meta post. ROWAN:  Yeah, exactly. I mean, do you feel like there are any of these shows or movies or books, or any piece of media where you've entered into the fandom and felt like, oh, this, this is working? Like this—this makes me feel seen and appreciated as someone with these kinds of like intersecting identities. Or do you feel like it's not not really built that way, right now? PRINCESS:  I think that even with the best of intentions, a lot of places are not always ready to unpack their anti-blackness, like, that's been the biggest hurdle that I've seen, like, in almost every single queer community I've been in. Unless it was like a black show or something like your black lightning or whatever. There was always a difference between how people would treat the characters of color, versus the white characters. And there was always like, a reason why and it was always like about the writing. But I think the reason why it doesn't work well, is because the communities will just push out the people who are pushing back on them. And there's a—there's a desire to disengage because that's not what you're actually coming to it for. Which is kind of the tricky part is that a lot of people are going to Tumblr to just kind of enjoy and be in community with each other. And a lot of people just treat community as in like, we're just all gonna be the same and it's easy. And when you get that kind of pushback, and you have to ask, get asked these difficult questions that you are not ready to deal with. It's very easy to just label someone like an anti or pro this and then just dismiss them. And that kind of repeats the cycle. Because I do think that there are valid reasons to be frustrated, especially with that particular queerbaiting of the late 2000s and early 2010s. Because they definitely knew what they were doing. But there comes a certain point of which, why are you as a consumer, still supporting and dealing with things that are clearly not meeting you where you feel like you need to be met as a queer person. And something that we're still dealing with about as consumers deciding and really being picky about who we are choosing to put our energy behind. Because queer marketing can do a lot if it's done well. ROWAN:  a lack of queer marketing— PRINCESS:  Yeah. ROWAN:  —can—can be like really pass people by. I mean, the example I always think of is, in books, actually. There's a wild book called Wranglestone, and it had a—I don't think they thought it was gonna be as popular as it was. And I think it gained word of mouth because people were like, it's the gays on the book. It's the gays on BYA book. And so suddenly, they had to do a reprint, and I went into a bookstore when the reprint came out, and they still had copies of the old cover. And it was exactly the same except for this one quote on the back, that was added for the second print, which made it obvious it was gay. Because prior to that, there had not been any obvious gay stuff within the blurb, within the quotations, there was nothing. And suddenly they'd made it obvious because they suddenly clock like, oh, wait, the gay teens, aka the readers. Although, maybe they want to read this book.  PRINCESS:  Exactly.  ROWAN:  And I think that, that that's always like, they've been this weird balance of like, some places trying to conceal queerness because they— I guess they can think they can sneak it in front of straight people and they won't notice. But along the way, you're gonna miss a lot of queer people who are like actively searching for this representation, and kind of actively excited about it. I am curious as to whether any of the stuff that you were kind of like had on your list is overtly queer. Like whether that you've kind of felt representation from media that was trying to represent you? Or whether it's kind of been stuff that you've interpreted through a queer lens or connected through in a queer way that wasn't necessarily in the source material? PRINCESS:  Well, I think one of the things about having been into anime as a kid is like, the dress is a lot more of it, even when they couldn't necessarily kiss on screen, you kind of knew what was going on. Then the biggest thing for me is like, obviously, like Sailor Moon, where it was like, you know, Uranus, Neptune they're— they're are a couple and they— ROWAN:  Those cousins,  PRINCESS:  Those beautiful cousins. Yes. And I—I don't think— I can't— I don't know anyone who watched the dub and really thought that that was really what was going on. Like, it was just like, it was like, Oh, they're not, they're actually cousins. ROWAN:  Yeah, for those—for those who don't know, essentially, yeah, there was basically what it sounds like, there were two characters who were made in the I think it was like, specifically America when it was over in America that they did the English dub for Americans, and they claimed that these two women were cousins. While they were very much doing things that cousins like would not, should not be doing.  PRINCESS:  Holding hands very closely. Yeah. ROWAN:  Very closely, really giving that cousin energy. And so it's kind of now I think it does seem ridiculous, but it was essentially like censorship that was deliberately trying to make sure that there wasn't even like, an ambiguous relationship people could interpret as being queer. It was like, nope. Cousins, absolutely not. Let's not go there. PRINCESS:  Right. And even something like Cardcaptor Sakura, which we got became Card captor, and the dub, you know, the leading boy character, Syaoran, he's bi-canonically, and that was like, written around. And so it was—it was interesting for me of like, watching these shows that were either—that were subtly queer. And I say that in like, subtle only in the sense that they couldn't say it explicitly because of censorship. But everybody knew it was going on, like Xena. You know, I always tell my mom, like, you're the one who got me to watch Xena, so you can't blame me for being bisexual. It is like bisexuality, the show. ROWAN:  Truly.  PRINCESS:  And so those were the things that really at that age, really allowed me to feel comfortable. And then the works of Tamara Pierce. Because in her—especially in her Circle of Magic series, there is a lesbian couple in it, and like a normalization of the idea that you know, LGBT peoples do exist in these worlds. And I think as I got older and expand to like fantasy and things like that, it became very easy to read between the lines and be like, oh okay, that's a little gay. You know, the first time I read like, vampire, and I was like, so they have a kid huh? Alright, that makes sense. I'm picking that up. I love that we're both wearing striped sweaters, by the way, I just wasn't thinking about that. ROWAN:  Yeah. We matched deliberately.  PRINCESS:  We did it.  ROWAN:  That was very on purpose. I mean, like, Tamara Pierce, what a fool— I feel like, there is just this kind of experience. A certain experience of being into Tamara Pierce, as a teenage—as a teenager and most likely as a teenage girl into queerness pipeline is absolutely chef's kiss. I truly don't know why there hasn't been adaptations of those books. PRINCESS:  I  that all the time. It's so frustrating.  ROWAN:  It's very—listen, if you— if anyone who's is listening to this and you don't know the book series that we're talking about, essentially, it was like my absolute bread and butter. One world called and various books, standalone geologies, quartet, series that kind of spanned like hundreds of years that still, I think being written today. And they all were very, like the quintessential one I'd say, is probably the Lioness Quartet, which was the classic tale of like a girl who disguises herself as a boy to become a knight in it. Followed her from when she was like a kid to when she was in her early 20s. And it was that kind of energy of like, the 90s feminist vibes in a fantasy setting. And yeah, they—they—but they these books that did have these appearances that I hadn't come across before of like queer characters, or have kind of tomboy characters who were treated with respect and it was a really—do you—It's—you would be listening to this and be like, wow, primed for an adaptation. And yeah, so that's the next one. That's—that's my big pitch to if anyone—hi, Netflix, if you're listening PRINCESS: You can't trust them anymore. Maybe Amazon. ROWAN:  You know what actually, you're right. You're right. That's very true. BBC, if you want to do I guess, the entirety of the series and nine episodes, that is kind of your bag, then it's sort— it's available I say, as someone who has no affiliation with Tamara Pierce or her legal— legal team.  PRINCESS:  Give them show money. ROWAN:  Get—please, please give them something. [theme] ROWAN:  Hello, dear listener, this is Rowan from a slightly different time of recording. Sorry to interrupt myself here. But I just wanted to just quickly say if you're enjoying this episode of the podcast or any of the other episodes that we put out, then why not consider being a Patreon supporter? We have a Patreon where essentially, you can give a small amount per month and you get access to a bunch of really fun perks. We have perks of different levels, but essentially, you get access to things like our Discord where we talk about queer movies. We do a queer movie watch-along every month. You can also tell us what you want us to cover on the podcast. We also have perks including things like top 10 lists, where we give you recommendations of queer movies and queer TV shows that we've been enjoying and you should watch. We have a queer newsletter with the very gay stuff that we're finding all over the internet that month. So a bunch of very fun, cute perks that you get, as well as just the warm and fuzzy feeling of supporting this podcast and the work that we do so that we can, you know, pay the wonderful Julia who edits for us. So I will include the link in the show notes. It's patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast. patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast. We would love to see you over in the Discord sometime soon. And also, if you have indeed been enjoying this episode, then we think that you will enjoy some of the other podcasts from Multitude the podcast collective that we are a part of over here at the Queer Movie Podcast. So I thought I would just tell you about one of them. It's actually a brand-spanking new one, hot off the press. Spicy. It is Tell Me About It, a madcap game show about proving that the things that you like, are actually interesting. Hosted by Adal Rifai who you might know from Hello From The Magic Tavern, and Hey Riddle, Riddle, as well as our very own Erik Silver. In every episode, a guest comes on to share and defend their favorite thing, which honestly very up my alley, because I feel like you know, online where they say, what could you talk about for like 10 minutes straight? Anything. Truly, if I have a favorite thing, if I have something that I've enjoyed, I could rant about it forever. I want to tell everyone about it. So this is right up my alley, and I'm sure a lot of yours. But the way that they do it is through a series of absurd games and challenges. Of course, the trailer is actually out now, you can listen to it. And the first two episodes are going to be dropping on February the 23rd. So very, very, very soon, with new episodes after that every other Thursday. And theyou might have noticed the fact that I said yet. It comes out every other Thursday, which means that if you are used to listening to the Queer Movie Podcast on Thursdays, this could be your ultimate Thursday fave. You could—you could have a podcast from Multitude in your little—in your little podcast app every Thursday by double tagging us and this brand new spanking new podcast. So give the trailer a listen, and subscribe so that you are primed to get those first episodes coming next Thursday. Just before I get back to my chat with Princess, I wanted to say a massive thank you to Squarespace for sponsoring this episode. And you may have noticed a lot of our episodes because very exciting, they're returning sponsor to the podcast. And if you're looking to build a website for yourself or your business, or ever have looked at building a website, I'm sure you have come across Squarespace. They are all in one place to do just that. You can build a site, set up an online shop, connect with your audience. I say a website for yourself or your business. But here's the thing, you could you—you could use it to make a website for anyone. A website for a friend, a website for your wedding, that's a thing people do, which I found out when I got invited to a wedding recently, that our website. The possibilities are truly endless. So we actually have used Squarespace to make the Queer Movie Podcast website. I also use it to make my own personal website, because I've never been relaxed a day in my life. So I constantly have a million projects going. I have a bunch of social media platforms, things like that. And Squarespace essentially is like, hey, you want to put all of those in one place? You just give people one link. You can link out to them, you can link your social media directly to your page so that it automatically pops up and displays posts from like your Instagram, from your Twitter. You have analytics as well, which, again, if you've never been relaxed a day in your life, you might look out for your website that you've made for your wedding to check. You know, how many people have been looking at that gift registry? Or if you have a business that you know, genuinely useful to figure out how people are finding your, your brand. What brand have you got? Your wedding photography brand? This sounds like I'm soft launching me and Jazza's wedding, I'm not. Um, but yeah, so that you want to find out where people—what are people searching for? What do people want? What are you providing to people, and how can you link those things up? And it is super easy with the insights that Squarespace has. Also, very exciting features that you might not have thought of including on your website, like a donation function. So you can encourage donations on your site for a cause that you care about. Like some kind of wedding-related cause, the theming really breaks down here, a worthwhile charity. I'm not a tech person, I'm not a coder. So very, very useful that they have a design function, which gives you templates and things that you can use and customize way easier. So if that sounds like something that is up your alley, if you're looking to start a website, for whatever reason, check out squarespace.com/queermovie for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code QUEER MOVIE to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Okay, back to the show. [theme] ROWAN:  So anime in terms of the possibilities that it opens up, it sounds like there was that element of like not necessarily having concrete, oh, I see these two characters kissing on screen and saying that their girlfriends and stuff, but that possibility opening up, is that kind of where it was landing for you? PRINCESS:  The—that's where it landed. And also, when I would read the Sailor Moon manga, it was also like the girls would kiss in that one. Like it was explicit that like there's even a whole thing where like, you know, Uranus is flirting with you, Usagi, and the girlfriend and her girlfriend. And then Pluto comes in It's like, oh, you all live together. And I go and raise this child. I see what's going on. So I think as I got out of just traditional Western media, which my parents were very encouraging of, and being able to read like other comics and seeing those experiences, it just became more and more normalized to me. And then just sort of like, I think Buffy at a certain level of like, even before I watched it, I knew the big thing about was that you know? Willow is a lesbian, which made it very shocking when I watched it from the beginning. And I'm like, what do you mean she likes Xander? I already stan. I thought she was gay. I thought she was a le—I felt betrayed in advance. I was like, what, what, what? Like, oh, it's just like, this is not what I signed up for. But then so it was very conflicting. But I was like, well, I can just be Bi, I guess in my headcanon because, you know, we—discourse for another day. ROWAN:  Listen, we truly peace has peaceful come to our lands when the bisexual Willow and the lesbian Willow headcanon has lived together in harmony. I'm part of that collective. I feel like you know, it's a fictional character, who has had relationships with both men and women. And therefore, you can—you can argue both sides and you can see yourself on both sides. Both the, I have had relationships with multiple genders, I find attraction to multiple genders. I am Bi-Pan and Willow is too. All the sometimes lesbians have relationships with men before they figure themselves out. Lesbian experience, and I believe they can all exist in harmony together. PRINCESS:  Absolutely. I mean, I'm just thinking that also just, you know, they'll—they'll like we'll— we'll become trans. I think have been a great trans woman character. So I'm just like  ROWAN:  You know what, that's—I take it back. That's the Galaxy burning take that we needed.  PRINCESS:  So I'm like that just as soon as it's like Oz comes out, realizes that they are trans woman, everything comes up, right as rain. It's like you were always in all the same.  ROWAN:  All coming together. The red string is connecting. PRINCESS:  Exactly. We just go right past standards, like that was just a mistake. We're just gonna— ROWAN:  Don't think about that—that's fine. Don't worry about it. So was it— it sounds like you sort of already knew there was like an element of queerness. Was this when you were already out or at least had figured out your own sexuality, or is this one of those things where you're like, oh, curious, a lesbian character? For no reason at all. I'll check that out. PRINCESS:  I think because I think I watched Buffy between my junior and the summer between my sophomore and Junior year of college. And junior year was kind of the year where I was sort of realizing things like yeah, I made it with my female friend but we're just like, fig— we're just hanging out, you know. ROWAN:  We're just friends of Katy Perry, just having a little bit of fun. PRINCESS:  Literally was obsessed with Katy Perry. Had I kissed a girl, I played it out all the time. I made like two Disney AMVs to I kissed a girl when that came out. ROWAN:  Of course she did. PRINCESS:  My friends printed out for my birthday like Katy Perry thing, say happy birthday to me. Again, it's one of those things where like, you look back, and it's like really. The call was coming from inside the brain. But the first show that I watched while I was queer, and that it really connected with me in that way particular, was Lost Girl. Particularly because the character was bisexual, was a succubus, had like relations between different kinds of genders. And while I still have like, my own critiques of that series on the whole, is it—it remains super important to me, and I'm actually watching it with my girlfriend right now. Because it was the first time that I was queer, and watching a queer show at the same time, and actively seeing things that made me feel seen. And also like she was the main character. She wasn't the side character, she wasn't she was the leading character, was a bisexual Succubus and like her being sexual, was not treated as a good or bad thing, it's just part of her nature. And I just really remember feeling just so held by that. And I think even when I critique it in terms of how it handled race, I'll always have like this bit of me that wants to share it with other people because it just meant so much for me at that time. ROWAN: I think that that is like a—feels like an almost universal experience of being I guess anyone who's—of an identity that has not had representation, necessarily, like held out to them and given to them, that you will have these things that you are like, I want to recommend this to you. I really liked this, it meant a lot to m., I might have to rewatch it to see how rose-tinted my glasses were when I was gro—when I was like completely like looking at it through the glasses of like, oh my god, the first time I've ever seen this. And then you go back and you're like, okay, so we have to acknowledge this, this, and this about it. But it is like when you don't necessarily have this wealth of representation, where you can be like, oh, there was enough of it that it feels comfortable to represent there, to talk about this particular representation because there's others that can fill in those gaps. Or this actually did it really well. That feels like a very— an experience I'm sure a lot of listeners will relate to in some way. Honestly. PRINCESS:  And because I was like older than—like not older, but I was in college then and I was like already know I was going to be like a lit nerd. I was unpacking a lot of it while I was watching it, which is why it's one of those things where like because I was already a nitpicky nerd, it's like, I've already— I can tell you the problematic before—about it before we even start watching. It's like so when I was I'm like, okay, so this episode has this, has this. Overall is very good, but we're just gonna prepare you. And I think that's kind of the good thing.this pushback about the idea of like, oh, you're gonna be like a buzzkill, if you like tell people it's like, I think most people with any real media analysis, understand that not everything is going to be perfect. Things are going to—can age weirdly, people can not necessarily know what they're doing. The important thing is like, acknowledging it and not trying to like pretend it doesn't exist. You know, I would much rather deal with acknowledging that there is transphobia in something, then be like, I mean, you could read it this way. It's like no, we'll read it the way that it is very clearly done in the story, which is transphobia. PRINCESS:  I mean, like I'm notoriously my entire personality is the show Black Sails. So yes,  PRINCESS:  Yes. I love Black Sails. ROWAN:  —because oh boy, season one.  PRINCESS:  Oh, yeah.  ROWAN:  And so I recommend it to people on like, but listen, season one is also a thing. So I gotta warn you. I gotta warn you for a whole season. I mean, it's still good, but like, oh, boy. PRINCESS:  Yeah.  ROWAN:  So I'm very used to the whole, I can love a piece of media that I'm also critiquing kind of energy to him. PRINCESS:  Yeah. Black Sails was a hard one because I remember that first season two, I watched it live and I'm just like, it's gonna be gay pirate soon everyone said, that's When Our Flag Means Death came out, it's like gay pirates. I've been here before. ROWAN:  I was like, oh, yes. My two shows, my two gay pirate shows. I really love the fact that they only were— having said that, you know, need lots of representation to get it right. Really the honest he said, Okay, we're gonna have exactly two gay pirate shows. And they're both going to be bangers and I respect that. It's like a concept. I think it's right, considering the Pirates of Caribbean was a bisexual awakening for so many people, and just felt like the proper legacy of piracy. PRINCESS:  And it was really interesting. I got to interview the writers of Black Sails. And I talked about that it was really important for them to like, acknowledge that like, part of the reason why people think of pirates as like, funny, you know, characters is because of propaganda used to sort of marginalize them, because they were on the outskirts of society a lot. Like kind of like how cowboys lot of, and there were people of color, freaks, formerly enslaved people. You know, women wearing, you know, male clothing, and it's like, wow, showrunners who actually do their research and appreciate their subject matter, I think also as it—as I get older, I think, no, actually, this is so funny. I, so I like a turn-based RPGs. And I love the game Fire Emblem. And one of the things that you could do in the Fire Emblem games is like put people in relationships. And so I would always just wanting to be putting all the girls together. And all the guys might be like, it's just normal, I just want everyone to be happy. And their best friends, they want to be best friends forever. So now they can get married. And so—and so it's very funny to like, go back and think about like, yeah, I really wanted all of these queer couples, and like, I'm playing the newest Fire Emblem now. And they have like a lot of callbacks to like, the older games. And I'm just like, oh, man, these are my babies. These are all my cute babies. And it's just been really fun seeing aspects of other characters that I really love come alive again. And finding all these little ways in which I was always kind of asserting my queerness in different ways. And coming to terms with sort of like what that meant for me. Because I don't think always meant one thing, or just one experience, which I think is fine. I don't think it ever should be just one thing to encompass so many people. But finding it in even places where I didn't expect it, I think was always a thrill of it, you know, of like, oh, my God, like I have this possibility. And that one, that possibility came up, I took it. That I really wanted to make it happen for me. And I think that's something that I really enjoy. You know that I'm older, I just really enjoy getting to be queer and enjoying stuff, and finding things where I don't have to make it up anymore. Or even if I go back to something that's older, to be able to see like—to see what they said I missed, because I think a lot of times authors are trying to do that. But they— they had so much pushback, especially when we were growing up about how queer you could make something without it being, you know, a whole issue. So it's actually fun for me to go and revisit things and figure out oh, like, this is the actual text, the actual text is gay. It was everyone else who was lying to me. ROWAN:  Hmm, yeah, definitely. And I think that that, like, I feel like I've talked to so many people who have found that like, the Fire Emblem experience that you've had in various places, whether it was like how they played with their dolls when they were younger, and like how they paired them up, or like playing their Sims and deciding like, who was living in the house with The Sims getting together. Or like fan fiction and fan art, and like finding those pairings that you wanted to put together to be like, ah, yes. And then as you're getting older, having more and more of awareness of like that being a deliberate act, rather than something that you are just doing to be part of the figuring out process, or because you're not even aware that that shouldn't be how the world works. And so it's really interesting seeing these ways in which exactly as you said like people are creating the queerness and like actualizing it in a way in front of them. You know, whether they're kind of cognizant of doing that deliberately and putting that out into the world to share it. Or just privately as part of like that growing up process. PRINCESS:  And also that like game, like even The Sims, like The Sims gave you like— you could have—in The Sims two, you could have gay couples, and they were just adopt a kid, like you just like ready to have a baby, instead of like, you know, having sex, you would just all of a sudden a woman would arrive with a baby and be like, here you are. And I'm just like, that's so convenient. Thank you. Didn't have to do any paperwork or anything. And so I really appreciate even those kinds of things, I look back of like, the possibility of being able to just enjoy things for myself. That is something that I just find so important. I really think that games specifically have become a really great way for people to play with their gender and sexuality and really, you know, get to experience it on their terms, and in spaces where they would not be able to do so. Like I liked Boyfriend Dungeon because I liked the idea that like you could have as many partners as you want of every flip, or you just be friends with them. And that was just—and either way, it was fine. And I think the more that we allow that to happen to like be able to be with any gender you want, pronouns you want in the game, and normalize it the better. We are going to be with giving younger queer kids, and queer adults who still enjoy this shit. The best experiences, while other people can just get normalized to it, you know. Like, it's not that big of a deal that to have pronouns in anything. It's just pronouns, guys. And also don't stream Harry Potter. ROWAN:  Yeah, that's a— that's a official order from the podcast, endorsed by Jazza, who isn't here. And as Jazza is the gamer amongst the podcast, co-hosts of me and Jazza. Jazza specifically used to work at Google supporting creators and was put on to gamers. And then me, it was like all these gamers, Jazza the gamer and then Rowan is this little extra person that was like, hi, I've never played a game in my entire life. I've—Does Dungeons & Dragons count? And Jazza's like, I love the game, but no, Rowan, that's a different kind of game. But again, like one of those games where people use it to explore their kind of gender and sexuality in a really interesting way. I guess it is that kind of participating in something and having a hand in creating it as you're interacting with a piece of media that someone else has created, means that it's like a safe place to explore, but also gives you enough, like creative control and autonomy to make those choices and, and feel like you've got like a part in it. PRINCESS:  Absolutely. And I love that part of it. Like I like— if I could design games or like do things like that, I would definitely want to do more of that. Because there's just so— the options are endless, especially because it's like, I want gays in space, you know, like I like—I like just game to play a game like even um, crusade kings where like, you can form alliances with other care—with other like nations, and they can be gay too. Like, you can just have those options of having queer alliances and doing those kinds of things or like, even in Civ VI now, they have King Christina, and like, all these other female and male models have played with gender in them, just already there. So if you don't know who they are, and you look up this kind of stuff, you can just figure out oh, there is this like gay ruler that was around during this time or this, you know, ruler who played with pronouns. I mean, playing with pronouns, especially in games, when you—like history games is such a common experience, you know, like female pharaohs, or like, women who call themselves kings and things like that, like there's so much there. And I think a well-made game is a great entry point to that kind of work. ROWAN:  Amazing. We're almost at the end of time. Oh, my goodness, time has absolutely flown. So I wanted to just ask if there's anything else that we haven't talked about that you wanted to mention, or that you wanted to bring up before we end? PRINCESS:  Um, no. Other than just kind of being surprised that A24 had a— had a grip on me at so young of an age. ROWAN:  I fully forgot The Bling Ring was an A24 film. Like it wasn't until you said, I was like A24, and I'm like, oh, a recent one. And then fully forgot that A24 has been around for more than like five years. PRINCESS:  Yeah, it's like them and Spring Breakers, which is like the—the tether of The Bling Ring. Oh, just like, oh, right, you know. And I think Spring Breakers is the energy I wished The Bling Ring had. But they're both in that same venue of like girls behaving badly, which I do appreciate. ROWAN:  Just being chaotic. I was thinking about it took me a second, when you. And I was like, oh, it's— it's not Spring Breakers. But I had that moment of being like, wait, which film is which? Okay, yeah, that'll— that'll make sense now. But I do—I mean, like, I think that it's, again, haven't seen Spring Breakers. And yeah, I feel like you could tell me like a particular scene from the trailer, and I'd be like, oh, yeah, not that exact one, because I think that something's just the internet immediately knows that this is—this is the thing people are going to want to get off. And they're gonna make it for you. PRINCESS:  No, absolutely. And I think that it's just you know, it's— it's so great to look back like when I was prepping for this episode, and like figuring out where I was going to start off with, with Emma Watson. It was just fun going back and looking at the trailer now. Every trailer, no matter what, may to include that theme. And then like every—because now you can see what the most replayed moment is out of thing. Every single one that most replays is the topic. And I'm like the people understand that this is what we want. ROWAN:  And whoever cut those trailers, understood what the people wanted as well. PRINCESS:  A good—a good trailer. Doesn't tell you the entire plot, but just gives you enough to be like titillated forever. It's so good. I really— ROWAN:  Every trailer should just have like a millisecond of that gift in it. Like any—any genre any trailer, give the people what they want, it's Emma Watson, licking upper lip with a fringe. PRINCESS:  That'll— that'll do it. Ah. ROWAN:  That fringe. PRINCESS:  A goo—a solid wig. I was very proud of her. But yeah, I just—I'm just really happy that I get to talk to you about gay shit. And that I can talk about my embarrassing crush because I'm not embarrassed by it. I love Emma Watson. I think that she does good things with her politics. And I just love— I don't think— I think honestly, if you were a queer kid and you had a crush on any of the Golden Trio, you turned out— everything turned out really good for you. Like, that's such a rare thing to say. But like, all of them have been pro-trans rights very much in the main. They all do normal kid things, Rupert Grint still looks hot as hell. He's a dad. He's a whole father now. ROWAN:  He has an ice cream truck that was like a whole thing for a while. He just like went around and gave out free ice cream, because it was like I got money and I guess what I'm gonna do with it is give ice creams. And I'm like, adorable. PRINCESS:  Yeah. And like Daniel—Daniel Radcliffe was a short Jewish king. He just like literally does whatever he wants with his money. Like him and Elijah Wood are just killing it in terms of like, short King got money on, hanging out. ROWAN:  Chaotic like indie film energy. I honestly love that. I feel like—never hasn't been a star that's— that big, but that I feel like any random person could write a weird short film and just get him to agree to be in it. Like any— I feel like any of you people listening right now if you wrote a short film, and made it weird enough, Daniel Radcliffe is going to be in it.  PRINCESS:  Absolutely. ROWAN:  He's gonna be like, sure, I'll pay you to be in it. PRINCESS:  Right. ROWAN:  I believe that with my whole chest.  PRINCESS:  Yeah.  Their— they are just good kids, lads, people who like I think they are the template of light. This is how you guide a child through the process of becoming immensely famous. And also giving them the space to just like, do whatever you want. Whether it be prestige, or you do like, you're gonna be like a sexy tavern boy, Dan Rad, like, do whatever you want. God bless. ROWAN:  Stunning. I have a final question for you.  PRINCESS:  Yeah? ROWAN:  Which is, do you feel like there's any— like as you've been going through the journey of like, your queerness, whether that is still ongoing, whether you feel like you're like settled, I've settled on my throne. Do you feel like there's been any of your experiences missing from representation, like you've—you've had a particular experience or a particular intersection of your identity, or a particular like life event that you've had that you're like, I don't know, if I've really seen something that's made me feel like, yes, this has been represented, this feels like it's something I've seen reflected back to me. PRINCESS:  You know, I think because I have enough privileges in my life. I think I'm pretty good. I think—I think I'm still trying to find just the baseline sometimes. Like I think First Kill and the character of Calliope was sadly like one of those characters that was like, oh, my God, this is so exactly, exactly what I would have wanted, and then it was gone. But I think in general, the thing that I that I really would love to see more of is just more, you know body diversity, more darker skin people, more discussion of STI and a non-stigmatic way. Because I think what I liked about feminism college girls, was that they had like the character who is a lesbian, she had chlamydia. And she's like, I didn't know. And they're all like, I didn't know that you could get chlamydia for sleeping with women. It's like, yes, you can girl, yes you can. So I just would like to just see more, you know, people who aren't able-bodied, people who, you know, who don't just have one partner throughout the entire thing. Normalizing STIs. Those kinds of little things that you may think, don't matter. But when we talk about sort of, like intimacy, and romance and sex, I think it's important to let people know that like, even if you're someone like for example, with herpes, or something like that, that you still are a little person because that happens all the time. And I think that just those small things make a big difference to people. So I'm lucky that I have had enough experiences and enough stuff with my own intersection. So even though it's not full, I mostly am looking for it to expand beyond someone like me into the more margins, you know/ ROWAN:  Yeah. Amazing. Sweet. Before I do my little ending, there was there anything else you wanted to add? Or that you forgot to say or anything like that?  PRINCESS:  Just that you're awesome, and I love the work that you do. And I'm really glad that we finally got to like, chat about something. And also like, we definitely need to do something about Black Sails eventually, because that would be so fun. ROWAN:  It's like truly. I'm like so excited for the fact that they are doing Percy Jackson. I'm, like, truly have never felt more safe in an adaptation in my life. PRINCESS:  I like as someone who was a—who was a fan of Artemis Fowl, I really am rooting for you, Percy Jackson kids.  ROWAN:  I'm not even a Percy Jackson kid. So the reason why I'm like have skin in the game for the Percy Jackson thing is because I used to work at Penguin who published them in the UK. And so I like weirdly had a relationship with it as lik

Cate Blanchett god nominated for Oscars Best Actress for this... and we might not agree. Jazza and Rowan spend an hour not really getting this movie.  Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd

It was only a matter of time before we tackled Call Me By Your Name, one of the most influential, and subsequently controversial queer movies of the last decade. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast for as little as $5 per month to gain access to perks like queer movie recommendations, Discord access, and watch-a-longs. Thank you for supporting us! We're a serious podcast and have a serious sponsor, Squarespace support us! Help make the podcast profitable by going to squarespace.com/queermovie, and by using the code 'queermovie' at checkout. This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen! New episodes every other Thursday. Find Us on the Internet Super Highway - Twitter: https://twitter.com/QueerMoviePod  - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thequeermoviepodcast - Website: http://www.queermoviepodcast.co.uk/  - Multitude: @MultitudeShows Production - Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John - Editor: Julia Schifini - Executive Producer: Multitude - Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd

As is customary, we're celebrating New Year's Eve here on Fated Mates with some of our favorite people in a fully headphones-in episode! Pour yourself a drink and pull up a chair, because Omegaversity is in session with professors Ali Hazelwood and Adriana Herrera! Jen and Sarah get a crash course in this wild end of the romance/fan fic pool. We're talking about mating heat (!), knotting (!!), butt babies (!!!) and loads of body fluids (!!!!). Seriously, loads of them. When we say headphones in, we mean it. Enter at your own will, abandon all hope, and bring in 2023 right. Check shownotes for omegaverse recommendations, and enjoy, firebirds!Thank you, as always, for listening. If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your favorite podcasting app, we would be very grateful.Show NotesWelcome Ali Hazelwood and Adriana Herrera, let's just call them AH2, shall we? The New York Times article about the Omegaverse, which is where a lot of us named Jen and Sarah first learned about so much of it. You can also watch this terrific series of videoes from Lindsay Ellis explaining the Omegaverse lawsuits: Into the Omegaverse: How a Fanfic Trope landed in Federal Court and Addison Cain's lawyer e-mailed me, and it only got worse from there. Also, the video essay The Rise (and Rise) of the Omegaverse by Rowan Ellis.Ali recommends reading this quick Omegaverse primer. Or this other list of how the Omegaverse worldexploded. You should read The Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller, which is a good example of how there are books out there telling the stories we want about the characters we love.

Rowan Ellis, Vanessa Hill and Grady Hillhouse face questions about diehard disease, pill-popping performers, and ridiculous room numbers. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://www.lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT & EDITED BY: The Podcast Studios, Dublin. EDITOR: Julie Hassett. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Josh Halbur, Ben Justice, Lewis Tough, Arun Uttamchandani, Eglė Vaškevičiūtė. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2022. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Orangey Guy is back, aren't you excited?? Plus we discuss the best ways to give back to a haunted historic site, secrets revealed at funerals, and exes that live in haunted lighthouses.    Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of family member death, illness, amputation, burns, and drug use.    Housekeeping - Recommendation: This week, Eric recommends 1899 on Netflix.  - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out the Queer Movie Podcast - a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today!   Sponsors - BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits - Brilliant is the best way to learn math, science, and computer science interactively! To get started for free, visit brilliant.org/spirits. The first 200 people will get 20% off Brilliant's annual premium subscription.  - Storyworth is an online service that helps you and your loved ones preserve precious memories and stories for years to come. Go to storyworth.com/spirits and save $10 on your first purchase.    Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com.   About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.

It's what you've been waiting for. We're finally going to solve ghosts. Answers like coffee ghosts, teenage shenanigans, and devious child lies.    Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of misogyny, missing persons, abduction, and death.    Housekeeping - Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends watching your favorite horror movie! - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out the Queer Movie Podcast - a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today!   Sponsors - BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits - Apostrophe is an online platform that connects you with an expert dermatology team to get customized acne treatment for your unique skin. Get your first visit for only five dollars at apostrophe.com/SPIRITS when you use our code: SPIRITS. - Brooklinen delivers luxury bed sheets, pillows, comforters, & blankets straight to your door. Go to Brooklinen.com right now and use promo code “spirits” to get $20 off when you spend $100 or more, PLUS free shipping.   Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com.   About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.

We're joined by Mara Wilson, who regales us with her experiences growing up in a haunted house, living the “gothic valley” life, and what would be scarier to meet: a ghost or an alien?   Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of misogyny, aircraft accident, earthquakes, parent death, illness, body horror, mental illness, murder, blood, animal death, and the Civil War.    Guest Mara Wilson, known for her childhood roles in Mrs. Doubtfire and Matilda, is a writer and actor living in Los Angeles. Recently, she has appeared on Welcome to Night Vale, Broad City and Bojack Horseman. Her writing has appeared in the New York Times, Elle, McSweeney's, Reductress, and many other outlets. She also publishes a newsletter of her writing with Substack, 'Shan't We Tell the Vicar?' Mara's first book, Where Am I Now?: True Stories of Girlhood and Accidental Fame is available from Penguin Random House. Recently, Mara voiced Tania de Batz in the audiobook One For All, a gender-swapped version of the Three Musketeers by Lillie Lainoff.   Housekeeping - Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends Games and Feelings. - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out the Queer Movie Podcast - a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today!   Sponsors - Wildgrain is the first bake-from-frozen box for artisanal bread. For a limited time, you can get $30 off the first box - PLUS free Croissants in every box - when you go to Wildgrain.com/Spirits to start your subscription. - Apostrophe is an online platform that connects you with an expert dermatology team to get customized acne treatment for your unique skin. Get your first visit for only $5 at apostrophe.com/SPIRITS when you use our code: SPIRITS. - BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits - Blueland creates everyday eco-friendly cleaning productions that save you money and space, without any plastic waste. Get 20% off your first order when you go to blueland.com/spirits.    Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com.   About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.

Big questions, little questions, these figures of folklore, mythology and world religion are here to answer them. We tackle camp quandaries, quitting jobs, and the world burning with their help.    Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of ableism, mental health, depression, homophobia, climate change, fascism, and hate crimes.    Guest Dr. Moiya McTier is a New York-based astrophysicist who studies planets outside of our solar system. She's also a folklorist who specializes in using science and logic to build fictional worlds. You can hear all about the worlds she's built on her podcast, Exolore, where she imagines, discusses, and reviews fictional worlds, often with expert guests. You can learn more about Moiya and her work on her website, moiyamctier.com.   Housekeeping - Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends The Milky Way: An Autobiography of Our Galaxy by Dr. Moiya McTier! - Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests' books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books - Call to Action: Check out the Queer Movie Podcast - a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today!   Sponsors - Wildgrain is the first bake-from-frozen box for artisanal bread. For a limited time, you can get $30 off the first box - PLUS free Croissants in every box - when you go to Wildgrain.com/Spirits to start your subscription. - Doordash is a fast, convenient food delivery app. Sign up for DashPass and get 50% off your first order up to $15 value. Use promo code SPIRITS at checkout when you spend $12 or more. - Magic Spoon cereal is high-protein, low-sugar, keto-friendly, and gluten-free. Go to magicspoon.com/SPIRITS to grab a variety pack and try it today! And be sure to use our promo code SPIRITS at checkout to save five dollars off your order!  - BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits   Find Us Online If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director's commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests' books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books. Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com.   About Us Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.