Podcast appearances and mentions of john ashmen

[00:00:00] John Ashmen: You need to be a board chair who understands the board role. So, intellect, respect, humility. Again, I think those are important. There are a lot of Board Chairs out there who really don't know the role of a Board Chair in a nonprofit. I've seen so many organizations that are in turmoil because the board chair has entered and sees himself or herself as the person who is in charge of the organization. And the Board Chair is only a spokesperson for the entire board. +++++++++++++++++ [00:00:37] Tommy Thomas: Today, we're continuing the conversation that we began last week with John Ashmen, Past President & CEO of Citygate Network. John was named President & CEO of Citygate Network in 2007 and served for 16-plus years. He stepped down as president on July 31st, 2023. When we recorded this conversation, John, the new Citygate CEO, and the board were in the final weeks of the transition to new leadership. From my perspective, the transition was well-planned and executed. John will share some of that with us. The Citygate Network has over 300 member organizations. So, you can imagine the number of leadership transitions John has observed. And the number of boards he's interacted with. Let's pick up on the conversation where we left off last week. If it's not too personal, what was going on in your heart? Obviously, you're going through a transition now. You told your board at some time. Can you give us a little bit of backdrop to how that happened and how it's gone? [00:01:48] John Ashmen: Yeah. So I've basically had three 15-year careers. I was 15 years as the CEO of Christian Camp and Conference Center in New Jersey. We've already talked about that. Then 15 years as the COO, Vice President, Director of Member Services at Christian Camp and Conference Association. Most of the time we called it Christian Camping International, and we were U.S. and did a lot of work and getting CCI Russia off the ground. And I was on the board of CCI Canada, Christian Camping International Canada. So that was my camping association career. And now 16 years as the President & CEO of Citygate Network, which used to be called the Association of Gospel Rescue Missions. And you just get to a point where you look at it, and think I'm turning the same pile over. We have conferences that are considered the best in the industry because we're creative and flexible. Our number of people coming to our events continues to increase. This past year we had the highest attendance we've ever had which is unusual in a world where most associations are seeing a membership decline. Ours is increasing and attendance is flat. Ours is increasing. And that's a good time to leave. You want to leave on a high note and be able to hand something positive to someone. And so I just looked at it and said, you have two questions. One of them is how much longer can I make this last?  I will be 71 on my last day on the job as president of Citygate Network, and I probably could make it last another five years. The board sure didn't want me to go. There was lamenting and concern because of all the progress we've made and where we are in so many areas. And I didn't want that question to be the one that drove me. How much longer can I make this last? The question you ask, is there somebody else who wants to take the wheel and chart a little bit different course or maintain the course we're on and can be fresh eyes, fresh perspectives, and a good foot for the pedal to keep us going? So, I let the board know two years prior that in the next year, we would want to start dusting off our succession plan. And it was basically 18 months early and I trusted it to the executive committee for the first six months and then one year prior just broke it out to the entire board and we had a plan already in place and I suggested people for the search committee. I gave my board a list of 12 organizations that we've worked with that were search firms and said, you can use a search firm, you don't have to use a search firm. And here's a variety of them that take different perspectives and I told him there are two things that I want to be involved in. One, I want to be involved in the approval of the job profile because I'm the only one who really knows what it takes to run this organization. The search firm they selected had a different idea and they started going that way until I pointed out the problems that already were being created and they said you were right. Let's go ahead and put you back into this process. So I gave the final approval and made some corrections and changes to the job profile and said the other thing I want to know is when you get down to your final candidate before you announce let me know who it is because the number of acquaintances I have and the places I've gone and spoken and the boards I'm on it's a good chance that I know this person and may know something about this person that you don't know. Like they're about to be indicted or something. And so they let me do that as well. And we've had a pretty good journey through this. We have a three-month overlap.  A transition is like a handoff in a relay race and it's done while both runners are running. So I am running force with the baton in my hand until that day of the handoff. And right now my successor is running and he's getting up to speed with where I am. And then I will slow my pace and be around as President Emeritus to help fill in some holes for the first month or two. The board wants me to remain as President Emeritus indefinitely, it sounds. I'm not sure how long that will be feasible. But that's the plan and it seems to be going well. [00:06:52] Tommy Thomas: Going back maybe a little bit earlier in your career. I'm always curious as to when people turn the corner and maybe they find their professional voice. They get comfortable in their leadership skin. Can you think back over your career to when you segued into that? [00:07:13] John Ashmen: I don't think there was a breakthrough, Tommy, at any point where it's okay, now I think I know what's going on. If you have people following you, you have probably found your leadership voice. I followed in my father's footsteps. He was certainly a leader and a hero well known in the Delaware Valley, which is South Jersey, Southeastern Pennsylvania, Delaware, Northeastern Maryland, that kind of area. And I just did what came natural and what I observed him doing. I think a lot of it comes with do you have people following you? And if that's the case, then I think you have found your voice. There was a camp teacher that I always thought was fun. It goes there they go. And I must catch them for, I am their leader. That's not what you want. And, because I had great responses to the things I started, and the ideas I had, and the initiatives I launched it just seemed to follow that what was happening was what was supposed to be happening.  I think at Christian Camping, I probably perfected those skills Christian Camping Conference Association, when I became the MC for all the conferences for about 15 years, and just realized that we were making progress, and the processes were all firing on all cylinders. And so there wasn't, like I said, one time, I think it just increased. And my confidence increased as the positive responses increased. [00:08:46] Tommy Thomas: If you were to invite me to a staff meeting next week of your senior leadership team and at some point, we excused you and I asked them these two questions. What's the most rewarding aspect of working for John? And what's the most difficult aspect of working for John? What kind of responses do you think I would get? [00:09:11] John Ashmen: We actually had some of those kinds of questions asked at one time. The one that they would say, probably what's the most enjoyable aspect is that we make work fun. There are no routines that are drudgery. We are always looking at something new and my director of meetings and events would say John is full of surprises. It's fun to do a conference because you have an idea of what's going to happen and all of a sudden, he springs something on you and you go, yeah, I think we can do that. And it so it just becomes fun to work and see where we're going. I think the other thing that was said when this question was asked to our staff was we are seeing results my vice president and director of member services said I've stayed here as long as I have because the things that we say we're going to do in our mission statement and our vision statement, we are actually doing, and we're seeing these things accomplished. My Vice President says you're the best boss I ever had. You're also the hardest boss I ever had because you expect everything to be done with excellence. So when you can have that kind of response, that's probably the most difficult thing is that we don't let up. We keep going and we keep moving forward. And I am, as I said, an expressive driver and my Vice President says you're the best boss I ever had. You're also the hardest boss I ever had because you expect everything to be done with excellence. And it comes back to the sign that my father had over his lathe in his machine shop. First Corinthians 14:40, let all things be done decently and in order. And so that is something that we look at. We send out every publication as if we're sending it to the EPA, Environmental Evangelical Press Association, not the Environmental EPA. Even though it's an association we've won awards for best in class for our publications. And the hardest thing again, just to reiterate, is the demand to have things done well and do them over until they're done right. ++++++++++++++++++ [00:11:20] Tommy Thomas: If you were a judge on a nonprofit version of the Shark Tank and they were asking for early-stage investments, what questions would you need solid answers to before you would open your purse strings? [00:11:30] John Ashmen: How much have you committed to this personally? There's a lot of charlatans who come around once you invest in something they think might work. Show me your success and how it's worked. And then show me the possibilities beyond what you are stating is the success rate in this. I just want to see that there's a door to an area that you have not even discovered or explored yet. And so that's important for me. [00:12:05] Tommy Thomas: What about if you were consulting and you were creating a dashboard to get at a nonprofit organization's overall health? What would some of your dials be? [00:12:16] John Ashmen: The temperature of the staff, you got to start with your personnel and is everybody there enjoying being there and is everybody there? Looking at the possibilities, do they believe in what's happening? When I was hired to take this position, it was the organization at its own admittance the board telling me was in bad shape. I didn't have a job description. I was handed something that was 25 mandates that came out of a survey that the consulting firm had done. The first was we need a new strategic mission and vision. The second one, we need a new business plan that's profitable. If you're going to start working for an organization and those are the number one and number two things you're basically building I would say, is there a vision for where this organization can go and do the people realize it? Do they embrace it? And can they tie everything that they're doing that particular day to that vision? We have KPAs and KRAs, Key Result Areas, KPIs, I should say, Key Result Areas, KP KKRAs, and these indicators that we look at and I can go around in my organization here and say what are you working on right now and where does this fit in our strategic map? And is this something that is in which line is this on? And I think once you're seeing the people understand their role in moving an organization forward, not just building widgets. I think that's critical. And then the finances are there. Are you financially viable? Is this something you'd go on to that? I just also look at, what is it we're doing? Are we selling the invisible or are we selling a product? It's much easier when you sell a product. There's a book, Harry Beckwith, I just mentioned, Selling the Invisible, at associations that I've been working at for the last 30 years, you really sell something that's invisible. If I were in tire manufacturing, you could come and you could run your fingers through the tread on the tires and you could see the wear and tear on used, and you know what you're buying. Here, you're buying a promise that we can assist you and be a resource to you. Programs, products and services. And so you have to agree that what you think you're going to get is what you will get before you sign up. And we've been able to deliver on those products. [00:15:09] Tommy Thomas: Let's go to board service for a minute. Obviously, you report to a board, and you serve on several boards. When you think of an ideal board chair what words and phrases come to your mind? [00:15:21] John Ashmen:  You need to be a board chair who understands the board role. So, intellect, respect, humility. Again, I think those are important. There are a lot of board chairs out there who really don't know the role of a board chair in a nonprofit. You may have a corporate model where they have a Board Chair and a CEO and a President and they all have different roles and a nonprofit, the Board Chair has to realize that they are not the boss. I've seen so many organizations that are in turmoil because the board chair has entered in and sees himself or herself as the person who is in charge of the organization. And I've seen so many organizations that are in turmoil because the board chair has entered in and sees himself or herself as the person who is in charge of the organization. And the board chair is only a spokesperson for the entire board. They also have to be a good collaborator and communicator. That's critical as well, because if they are going to move the organization forward, it has to be done in harmony and the board chair is again, not the person who's in charge. They're simply the spokesperson for the entire board. And once they understand that and can move on, they'll be successful. [00:16:41] Tommy Thomas:  What does your working relationship look like with you and your board chair? Since I've been here, I've probably had 10 different board chairs in 16 years. We change board chairs on a regular basis. And that has been very helpful. [00:16:48] John Ashmen: I've had let's see, since I've been here, probably I'm just going to ballpark it, 10 different board chairs in 16 years. We change board chairs on a regular basis. And that has been very helpful for the organization. There are some organizations that say, boy, we've been fortunate. We've had the same board chair for the last 20 years. And I see in those situations, you have great communication, and predictability, but also have a lot of great stagnation. And so the board chair has to be somebody who's communicative and understands where they're going. I've had some really good board chairs. The difficult ones are the ones who still took them a while to understand that they weren't in charge, but we got that settled pretty quickly, and then others who were just hard to get ahold of. I work in a national organization, actually international, we're the U.S., Canada, Caribbean. My Board Chair can be 2,000 miles away from me. And if I don't have somebody that will pick up the phone when I call, and realize that, hey, even though I've had a hard day's work in my own organization this is my opportunity, and I've signed up for this to be communicated here, so I think that's important as well somebody who's we're able to have good communications. [00:18:17] Tommy Thomas: So how often do you meet with your board chair, either formally or informally? [00:18:20] John Ashmen: I don't think this is a good sample right now because we're going through succession. And with the succession, there's a lot of stuff going on. But normally, before this time, I would probably talk to my board chair twice a month. And our board meetings for the longest time, were two times a year. And then we added and those two times were three-day meetings. So, we had two three-day meetings where everybody flew in from all over North America. And then we added, about four years ago, three years ago maybe, we added two more meetings via Zoom and that makes it four meetings per year. So, four meetings per year are when I talk to the board chair, and twice a month after that and they're usually not long conversations. They're maybe sometimes three or four minutes and then we're done. [00:19:20] Tommy Thomas: Who sets the agenda for your board meeting? [00:19:24] John Ashmen: I do. I set the agenda for the board meeting because I'm the one who knows what needs to be done and where we're going and what steps and processes have to be done. It's funny you asked that question because the last thing I did before I picked up the phone to call you here was send out the agenda for my July 25th board meeting to my executive committee and said, this is going to be the agenda. Let me know if you have any questions and if we want to talk about anything. Most of the items on the agenda will not be a surprise because there are things that were carryovers from previous meetings or things that they know have happened at this point. But yeah, I set the agenda. [00:20:04] Tommy Thomas: What about term limits for board members? What's been your experience or observations there on best practices? [00:20:13] John Ashmen: There are different kinds of boards where different kinds of situations work better. I don't run a local ministry. I don't run a local nonprofit where you want to have on your board, the local banker, the local head of the hospital, the local owner of the hardware store, or whatever it happens to be. I work at an international association, and it's a representative association. My board members are made up of practitioners in the industry. So, I have a board of 15, and all but three of them are rescue mission leaders. And so that's a little bit different. I don't have somebody who's coming in from the perspective of being an attorney, somebody who's coming in from the perspective of being in management, somebody else who's coming in who understands supply chain or whatever it is. And they're all bringing a different area of expertise. The lion's share of the people I work with all lead rescue missions, and they have one profession. And they're representative. They're not brought on for their expertise in an area. They're brought on to represent their peers. So, in my world, I've insisted that the board needed to be three years on and you're done. We don't even have the opportunity for a second three-year term, which most revolving boards have. You come on to our board and you're on for three years and then you're off. And we have others come in. When you have a representative board and there are 75 people in one particular district that are eligible for the board. Most of them would want to be on the board at some time, I would think, because they're leaders. And they get to know that, hey, there's another term coming up where maybe I could be on that board. If you are on for three years, and then you get to another three years you got six years, and if you had a couple of those, you only get two or three people from that whole district ever to be a representative. So that's how I work it. I like a revolving board with one term of three years and it works for me. ++++++++++++++++ [00:22:38] Tommy Thomas: Maybe this is a broader question or maybe a more high-level question. A lot of people talk about bringing younger people onto boards, people in their thirties and forties. When you think of boards, I guess in an American sense, it's usually a bunch of men and they're usually older. Maybe speak to that idea of diversification on a board in terms of wisdom and experience and what all that means. [00:23:05] John Ashmen:  If you're having a board that's overstaying a corporate fund or stock investments, you want the oldest, wisest people you can get. You don't want to bring a millennial in and say, hey, what kind of creative ideas do you have? We can play with this money. That's not what makes sense there. I think boards have to be a mosaic of their community and the people that they serve. And so that includes gender diversity, racial diversity, size of organization diversity, all of that kind of thing has to be included. Rescue mission Boards should be a mosaic of the community they serve.  That includes gender, racial, age – diversity of all kinds must be included. But I will also tell missions and my world rescue missions that your board needs to have on their people who have been through a program and understand what it's like to have been homeless or something like that. You don't want to make your whole board that way, but you want to have perspectives that represent that. And I also push for age diversity as well. You don't want to have people, all people who are baby boomers on a board. You're going to be shocked when all of a sudden you get your first millennial and find out that your positions don't line up anywhere near what the positions are that they would hold. And so, I think you need to gradually bring some of those folks on so you can adapt to perspectives that are changing every day in the world around us. That's certainly something that's important. I applaud those who bring somebody onto the board who is in their late twenties, early thirties, but not just somebody who has no idea what they want to do in life. Somebody who understands where they're going and has some goals of their own. And yeah, I push for that all the time. [00:24:58] Tommy Thomas: Somebody once said you need a director on the board who will be a pleasant irritant. Someone who will force people to think a little differently. That's what a good board does. Your thoughts on that philosophy? [00:25:11] John Ashmen: Yeah, I have been that person on my board but I'm the one who's asking the tough questions. I've got 15 board members and there certainly always is somebody like that. They learn to ask the question as long as they ask them in the right way looking for the right thing, not just to be disagreeable. I welcome it. And it challenges me to make sure I have the answers in place. Yeah, I will always take somebody like that. I'd rather have people like that than people who aren't really engaged and rarely talk at a meeting. Fortunately, I have a pretty good hand in helping to pick the board. I don't select them, but I make strong recommendations and so I get people who I know will be question-askers to begin with. [00:26:01] Tommy Thomas: This is maybe more on a local board than it would apply to your board, but any thoughts on the board and risk management? [00:26:07] John Ashmen: Risk management is certainly something we all have to keep in mind these days. There are risks at every corner. Going back to that idea of surrounding yourself with better people than you are, we have resource colleagues that we go to all the time when these risks come up. And as you can imagine, there are huge risks when it comes to running a rescue mission, or a street mission, or a city mission.  And we're always mindful of those things. [00:26:43] Tommy Thomas: You get a call next week from somebody who's been asked to join a nonprofit board. What questions are you telling them to make sure they have answered in their mind and heart? [00:26:57] John Ashmen: First thing is, why do they want you?  Have they told you why they want you? Have they been up front?  It used to be that people were asked for one of the three W's. Wealth, wisdom, or worth. Wealth, wisdom, or work. They want you because you have a construction team at your disposal, and you can work and build things or whatever it is. Or it's your wisdom, you're very wise on other boards and notice for that. Or it's you're going to support. Is there a reason why they're asking you? And then can you support the ministry long-term? Or the organization, whatever. If it's not a ministry of nonprofit, of sub-court, can you support this and would you support it after you're done, or is it just a temporary thing? And the other question I was asking would can you fire the CEO if things weren't going well? Do you have that ability, capacity? Or if, oh my, I don't know, he's a good friend, I'd hate to do that. If you can't fire the CEO, then you shouldn't be on the board. [00:28:08] Tommy Thomas: Wrap-up question.  Maybe two wrap-up questions. One, if you could tell a younger version of yourself something, what would that be? [00:28:18] John Ashmen: The first thing is listen to your son. Invest in Apple. Back when it was $7.92 a share. That's the first thing. My son works for Apple Corporate. They were paying him in stock, I think, initially. Listen as much as you speak.  Let others talk and hear them out.  Don't assume you know what their mindset is.  Make sure you give people the benefit of the doubt. Listen as much as you speak. That was probably one of the lessons that took a long while to learn but let others talk and hear them out, don't just assume you know what their mindset is, and always make sure that you're giving people the benefit of the doubt. [00:28:57] Tommy Thomas: If you had a do-over in life, what would it be? [00:29:03] John Ashmen: I really don't know. Maybe keep moving up in housing.  I've stayed in the same house for such a time and all of my peers have moved up three or four houses, for your long-term investment. I don't know, that's a personal thing, but as far as organizationally I don't think I have one. +++++++++++++++++++ [00:29:25] Tommy Thomas: You're in a good place. Thank you so much for your time today and for the insights you've shared with us. And I wish you the best as you make this transition. [00:29:36] John Ashmen: Thank you. I appreciate it. [00:29:38] Tommy Thomas: Thank you for joining us today. If you are a first-time listener, I hope you will subscribe and become a regular. You can find links to all the episodes on our website. www.JobfitMatters.com/podcast. If there are topics that you'd like for me to explore my email address is tthomas@jobfitmatters.com.   Word of mouth has been identified as the most valuable form of marketing. Surveys tell us that consumers believe recommendations from friends and family over all other forms of advertising. If you've heard something today that's worth passing on, please share it with others. You're already helping me make something special for the next generation of nonprofit leaders. I'll be back next week with a new episode. Until then, stay the course on our journey to help make the nonprofit sector more effective and sustainable.   Links & Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas Citygate Network Website Invisible Neighbors – John Ashmen Selling the Invisible – Harry Beckwith   Connect tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Follow Tommy on LinkedIn Citygate Network Website Invisible Neighbors – John Ashmen Selling the Invisible – Harry Beckwith  

[00:00:00] John Ashmen: I think that's always important, that you have people that tell you the truth. And, we have different places where that happens. It's not just in the work environment, but also in small groups and fellowship groups and things like that. We have the opportunity to either take their advice or not take their advice. You can surround yourself with great people and they can tell you the truth. If you don't listen to it and take their advice, then you don't emerge any better than you were when you went in. +++++++++++++++++++++ [00:00:30] Tommy Thomas: Our guest today is John Ashman, the CEO at Citygate Network. Prior to Citygate, John was the Chief Operating Officer at the Christian Camp and Conference Association, giving him a total of almost 30 years in association leadership. John has led Citygate through a reassessment, a relocation, a restaffing, a refocusing, a rebranding, and then ultimately through the pandemic. John has led Citygate through a reassessment, a relocation, a restaffing, a refocusing, a rebranding, and then ultimately through the pandemic. Through all of this, the Citygate Network membership has grown by almost a third. In addition to his day job, John is a prolific writer, speaker, and board member of several nonprofit organizations. John, welcome to NextGen Nonprofit Leadership. [00:01:12] John Ashmen: Thank you, Tommy.  Good to be with you. [00:01:15] Tommy Thomas: Before I jump too deep in, is there a short story about how you got into association leadership? [00:01:23] John Ashmen: I was a camp director in New Jersey, a youth camp that was located halfway between Philadelphia and Atlantic City, had about 15,000 people a year come through on all of our programs. It's New Jersey, a very populated state, and the whole Delaware Valley is quite crowded. And we did camping programs up in Maine and over in Europe as well. And being in that camping world gave me visibility. And I went on the board of Christian Camp and Conference Association. At some point, one of the people who was also on the board at that time ended up taking the position of president of that association and gave me an invitation to come and also be on that team. So that's where I served those years as Vice President and Director of Member Services, which is essentially the COO position at Christian Conference Association. That was the launch. [00:02:20] Tommy Thomas:  What do you remember about your childhood that was formative? Were y'all big campers as kids? What stands out there? My father had a mantra that was pretty much built into his life philosophy and that was never let school stand in the way of your kid's education. [00:02:31] John Ashmen: My father had a mantra that was pretty much built into his life philosophy and that was never let school stand in the way of your kid's education. And so, we would take train trips across the U S and in the middle of September and October when some of my friends were in school and somehow, I always was able to do it and I never got in trouble and I guess he didn't, maybe he never told me, but I was always involved with something in adventure and activity with my family. Myy dad and mom for their honeymoon, for example, were married in Ohio and decided they would go out to Illinois and see his brother. They got to Northwestern where he was teaching and he convinced them that Yellowstone National Park was not that far down the road, so they put a case of Campbell's soup in their trunk and took off and found out it was a little bit further than they thought and so they got to Yellowstone and they said we'll never be this close to California, let's try that. That was the parents that I had and the upbringing that I had, so adventure was always on the horizon. [00:03:40] Tommy Thomas: What was high school like for you? [00:03:42] John Ashmen:  What was high school like? Boy, that's a question I don't get in many of the interviews that I do on a regular basis. High school was a great experience. I didn't have problems. I came from a rural part of New Jersey. They're hard to find them anymore. In fact, in my grammar school days, we had outhouses for the first two years.  I'm not all that old, but that's the status of the area where I grew up. But I went to a regional high school and probably was involved in the usual stuff.  A few sports teams, and in the band. I look back on high school with fond memories. [00:04:25] Tommy Thomas: When you went to college, how did you declare a major? What was involved in your decision? [00:04:28] John Ashmen: I was in a music group at the time. This was in southern New Jersey, South Jersey for the locals, that's how it's known. And I didn't want to go too far away to college because I didn't want to drop out of that group. And so, I went to the college where my parents had gone, where they met, which eventually became Cairn University. At the time, the school was called Philadelphia College of Bible, and it generally prepared people to go into a career in church music or go on to seminary, so I looked around at all those things that were preferred. I wasn't interested in going on to seminary, and even though I was musical, it wasn't going to be a career. I looked at education, that's where most of the people were, and the one that interested me the most was social work. And I declared social work as the major, actually, everybody majored in Bible and you had a minor, and so it was social work, and so I left college with a Bachelor of Science in Bible with an emphasis on social work and didn't use it right away. I did work part-time. Some of my fieldwork assignments were to be a chaplain at the Veterans Hospital and to be a parole officer, probation officer, in Philadelphia, but went into camp work, and that Christian camp that we mentioned was the one that when I spent the first 15 years, took over from my father and he was the person who started that camp, determined it was time to do something different. [00:06:14] Tommy Thomas:  What do you remember about the first time you had people reporting to you? [00:06:17] John Ashmen: It was at the camp. And I just remembered that the folks that were there were just fun to be with. And we made it as creative and unique as possible. We just had a lot of opportunities to really join together in a unique way in a camp setting. We did not run a traditional office setting or environment. Everybody was out and about, and we would meet in some of the most unusual places, out in the Pine Barrens. And we just made it like an adventure every day that we would get together. [00:07:01] Tommy Thomas: I think successful people are asked all the time, what makes you successful?  I'd like to frame the question this way, and that would be, what is a factor that's helped you succeed that most people on the outside probably wouldn't recognize? [00:07:17] John Ashmen: I'm told I'm creative and flexible. And so that is probably something that is a standout characteristic. In the strengths finder ideation is one of my strengths. But strategic is also a strength. As we are going through a leadership transition here, my leadership style has been talked about particularly by the board as they were looking to find my replacement. I am an expressive driver, which means I come into a situation, assess it pretty quickly, and then pick a direction and get people to follow me.  And that's worked for 30 years and 15 before that at the camp. That would be who I am. ++++++++++++++++++++ [00:08:00] Tommy Thomas: What's the most creative thing you think you and your team have ever done? [00:08:08] John Ashmen: 15 years in camping, 15 years with the Camping Association, and then 16 years with the Mission Association, and having had music in my background. 3 years ago now, 4 years, I guess, I talked to our friend, Amy Grant, from Nashville.  Most people know who Amy Grant is and we said, what if we bring together the rescue mission dynamics, the life transformation attributes that are kind of part of helping people change their life? And then also blend in the unique outdoor setting and the dynamics of creative outdoor initiatives. And then also music. And so, we started something called Hidden Trace Retreat. And we've got a couple more scheduled here in another month. Amy Grant worked with Citygate to establish Hidden Trace Retreat And they've just been wildly successful where we bring people from a rescue mission going through a life transformation program, people who have previously been on the streets to continue with some of that teaching, but also use the outdoor setting and group initiatives and farm chores and those kinds of things to change their environment and give them total new experiences and see themselves in a different way. We do What's My Name? We talk about what your name means and whether you're living up to those attributes. What's my story? Where did you come from? What's my style? We go over social styles. What's my plan?  What's my future? And when we get to that, what's my story, we bring in singers, songwriters, people like Amy Grant or others in Nashville. Cindy Morgan's been very involved with this, Mark Elliott and they listen to the stories of people who have been on the streets, go home, and craft these amazing songs so that when we all get together in the barn on the climax of the program, they hear songs about their life story sung by Nashville musicians. And that has been something that's gotten all kinds of accolades and awards for being a creative, unique program. That ranks up there. It's relatively current. [00:10:39] Tommy Thomas: What times in your life have really tested your mettle and how did you come out of those? [00:10:51] John Ashmen: Anytime there is a unique change in people's environment brings a lot of responses that you can expect more specific. When I came to Citygate Network, I was the first person in a hundred years, literally, to run this association of at the time, a couple of hundred rescue missions who never actually ran one. And I was never a mission superintendent as they called it. And so that put a pretty good target on my back. And when I came up with things that are presented to the board that were needed to be done to basically, save the association, that wasn't met with a lot of applause because they saw this as critical change.  And so that was probably one of the trying times. And I persevered and I told my board chair that you have to be my armor bearer. And I told my executive assistant, I don't want to read any of the comments that are coming in on email or social media about what people think of my decisions.   I'll just measure it by what we accomplish. [00:12:15] Tommy Thomas: Is there a point during that transition when you saw that y'all had turned the corner? [00:12:22] John Ashmen: Yeah, there was. One of the things that really helped, Tommy, was that I wrote a book on the whole idea of hunger, homelessness, abuse, and addiction called Invisible Neighbors. And that book actually went through three printings and sold very well. And when all of those members, now organizations, number over 300. When those people saw that I understood what they were about and could voice it even the way that they couldn't, there was much broader acceptance, and then when they saw the positive changes and the connections to federal governments and the links we were making there and the unique public relations initiatives and involved with movies like Odd Life of Timothy Green, Same, Different as Me, I think they also, they said, hey, this is going the right direction. And we want to be part of it. And so that's why our membership has grown 50% since I've come. [00:13:28] Tommy Thomas: What lesson do you think y'all brought out of the pandemic that you'll take forward? Collaboration is paramount.  I pushed collaboration from the very beginning of the pandemic.  Faith-based organizations, particularly in the nonprofit world, had become very siloed.  That was hurting us. [00:13:34] John Ashmen: Collaboration is paramount. That's an easy one for me. I pushed collaboration from the very beginning. Faith-based organizations, particularly in the nonprofit world, had become very siloed. This is our group. This is what we do. And even when I came to try to get people involved in government relations was, oh, we don't want to get involved with government. The camel gets its head under the tent and pretty soon the whole camel disappears and we'll get eaten up. My statement was, hey folks, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu. If you're not at the table, you're on the menu. And so let's see what we can do to build bridges. We have different philosophies about what's going on and we have different ideas of what the solution is, but let's at least talk to one another and see where we can work together. So we started not only building connections to the government but also we're encouraging members to reach out and see who around you is a partner in what they're doing.  And so a lot of our members became friends with those people running Dream Centers or Adult and Teen Challenge or Salvation Army, or whatever it happened to be in their city and started to have good relationships. Things like, hey, here's another mission nearby and they have a great women's program and we have a great men's program but their men's program isn't that good. And maybe we can be the men's program. Let them have the women's program. We'll send our women over there. And so the collaboration that started at that point was something that was already in place when COVID came. And when we determined that we needed to have a bubble, the safe place. And then we needed to have a place for rule-outs. And then we needed to have a place for quarantine. We had to have a place for isolation. We had different missions or ministry organizations sharing those responsibilities. Likewise, I was asked to be on the U.S. Interagency Council COVID 19 Task Force, U.S. Interagency Council on Homelessness, USICH. And I was on there with the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. People from Health and Human Services. The White House had a representative on the call. Department of Education, Department of Labor. A couple of other groups were on there. Of course, FEMA was on and the Center for Disease Control prevention was on and the only three non-government agencies on that call were the Red Cross, us, and the Salvation Army. And we were collaborating at the highest level through the entire COVID pandemic. [00:16:26] Tommy Thomas: Richard Paul Evans, the best-selling novelist, said that sometimes the greatest hope in our lives is just a second chance to do what we should have done right in the first place. When you think of a staff team and somebody that needs a second chance what's going through your heart and mind there? [00:16:47] John Ashmen: If we're talking about what I'm seeing at missions they are there. They're paramount in this area. Many of the people who staff missions were former clients. In fact, many of the CEOs are products of their own program. I've taken so many trips to rescue missions and touring with the CEO and, here's our kitchen and here's our men's long term recovery dorm. That was my bunk up there in the corner when I went through the program. And I just see that happening all over the place. I was within six different missions. Last week one of them called, Hope the Mission, used to be called Hope in the Valley in the Burbank area. They had something on their wall that said you can't go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending. I tell people on both Christian networks and secular networks that the Bible says life comes with a reset button, a second chance button.  Any person being in Christ, they can be a new creation. And that's what so many of our members are doing, seeing these people who are having second chances, as you put it, Tommy, go and finish well.  I tell people on both Christian networks and secular networks that the Bible says life comes with a reset button, a second chance button. Any person being in Christ, they can be a new creation. Old things pass away, and everything can become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17. So that is part of what we're about and why Citygate Network has done the work it's done so well. ++++++++++++++++++++++ [00:18:17] Tommy Thomas: Maybe aside from your dad, have you had mentors in your life who made a significant contribution? [00:18:24] John Ashmen: One that I would immediately go to is someone who's passed away now. His name was Lloyd Mattson. And he was a mentor from afar. For most of my life he'd write books, and the books that he wrote, I would follow and just emulate the things that he was doing. The creative side came out. I started quite a few camping programs because of the work that he had done and the positions that he had taken on things. Lloyd Mattson certainly was one of them. I would say that the person I worked with at Christian Camp and Conference Association after I left directing the camp, his name was Bob Koblish.  He was a mentor as well. I learned a lot about association work from him and, interestingly, he says he learned a lot from me, but I think we learned from each other and that's noteworthy as well. [00:19:19] Tommy Thomas: Certainly, the Koblish family is good stock.  I mean you got a good family there that have made a great contribution to both the Christian world and society in general. [00:19:33] Tommy Thomas: I don't know of Rob Hoskins down at One Hope, but I saw a posting he said the other day, surround yourself with people who know you better than you know yourself and will tell you the truth out of love.  That's how we grow.  How do you resonate with that? [00:19:48] John Ashmen: Yeah, it's like the tombstone sometimes, credited to Andrew Carnegie, but I don't think it really is his. It says, here lies the body of the man who surrounded himself with better people than he was. I think that's always important that you have people that tell you the truth. And, we have different places where that happens. It's not just in the work environment, but also in small groups and fellowship groups and things like that. We have the opportunity to either take their advice or not take their advice. You can surround yourself with great people and they can tell you the truth. If you don't listen to it and take their advice, then you don't emerge any better than you were when you went in. You can surround yourself with great people and they can tell you the truth. If you don't listen to it and take their advice, then you don't emerge any better than you were when you went in. [00:20:28] Tommy Thomas: What's the most dangerous behavior that you've seen that derail leaders' careers? [00:20:34] John Ashmen: Some people don't like to be seen as making a mistake and if they do, they hide it. I think pride is there as well. I think the other thing is that for so many leaders, their self-worth is tied up in what they are doing and not who they are, particularly who they are in Christ as Christian leaders. And so, when it comes time to let go of an organization and hand it over to somebody else that those tentacles wrap around and you find that they're not really willing to let go and it starts destroying the organization unless there can be some quick chopping of those tentacles to move. This whole thing of succession is really critical. We did a survey of our 320-plus organizations back in the year 2020. And we asked hundreds of questions and we've got a lot of valuable information, but one of those was. I didn't know how long they expected to work and 39% of our CEOs said they would be leaving in the next four years. So that was COVID right at it's prime point. I think a lot of people were tired and we thought maybe that wouldn't be the case, but it doesn't seem to be inaccurate. We're seeing people come and go, quite a bit.  We probably have about 30 of our member organizations that are in transition right now. And that just comes back to this idea, we're seeing who's able to let go and who isn't. The future of those organizations depends on how well succession is handled. [00:22:22] Tommy Thomas: Stan, with succession, you've obviously seen a lot of it in both of your career tracks. How soon should a board and a CEO begin to think about that? [00:22:36] John Ashmen: I believe a succession plan should exist as soon as you hire someone. You don't decide, here's what we need to do because the CEO needs to leave right away. We have documents that we tell our members to put a succession plan together. Here's sample documents, what it looks like. You have a succession plan that is timed. Planned succession. You have one that's an unexpected succession. We even have documents that go to boards that say here's what not to do when you find yourself in the midst of an unexpected transition. And then once you have that plan, put it in a policy manual and put it on the shelf. I tell CEOs when they ask me that question, I get a lot of them asking me when should I mention it to the board? I said, when you are sure you are ready to leave and it's going to be within two years. Because if you start talking about that, even hinting at it to your board, their whole mindset changes and they look at you as somebody who's in the process of going. They aren't willing to take risks and you may be wanting to finish a project and they're not willing to put the extra effort or time or money into it because they sense that a change is coming. There are right ways to do succession and there are certainly wrong ways to do it. I like to think that I've rescued quite a few people from announcing things prematurely and helping them figure out how to end well. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= [00:24:18] Tommy Thomas: Next week, we will continue this conversation with John Ashmen. During that time, we'll discuss succession planning, John's recent transition from leadership at Citygate, and how he and the board handled that transition. We'll talk at length about board governance. Then I asked John the question that seems to be getting a lot of traction lately. My shark tank question. If he were a panel member of a nonprofit version of Shark Tank, what would he have to be convinced of before providing startup capital to the nonprofit organization?   Links & Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas Citygate Network Website Invisible Neighbors – John Ashmen   Connect tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Follow Tommy on LinkedIn

November 13 2022 - John Ashmen, Citygate Network

Peter Kapsner and Carmen talk about the large number of people in India praising a recently born three eyed calf and unpack the true incarnation of God. John Ashmen, president of Citygate Network, shares about the very real connection between mental health and addiction to those experiencing homelessness and ideas for how we can reach these broken people.

Peter Kapsner and Carmen talk about the large number of people in India praising a recently born three eyed calf and unpack the true incarnation of God. John Ashmen, president of Citygate Network, shares about the very real connection between mental health and addiction to those experiencing homelessness and ideas for how we can reach these broken people.

What are some of the challenges your organization is facing and how are you addressing them? Well, today we have the privilege of talking with John Ashmen the CEO of Citygate Network representing 300 rescue missions across North America. He outlines some of the key leadership issues that they are facing as their organizations focus on life transformation. For me, one of the groups that I most admire and appreciate, especially during the pandemic, is the work of rescue missions and their employees.  Today it is my distinct pleasure to have John Ashmen, the President, and CEO of Citygate Network, the association for rescue missions across the United States and Canada, or as they call them, “life-transforming ministries.”   Find full show notes here: https://bit.ly/johnashmencitygate Share the love. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate it on Apple Podcasts and write a brief review. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-flourishing-culture-podcast/id1060724960?mt=2  By doing so, you will help spread our podcast to more listeners, and thereby help more Christian workplaces learn to build flourishing cultures. Follow our Host, Al Lopus, on Twitter https://twitter.com/allopus Follow our Host, Al Lopus, on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/allopus/ Email our host at info@bcwinstitute.org 

Across the country, American cities are unsuccessfully grappling with how best to address homelessness. This month, Austin criminalized sitting, lying, or camping in public. Sausalito, an upscale community in the Bay Area canceled its annual art festival when its location conflicted with the proposed place to relocate the homeless population that is currently living on the city’s waterfront. Los Angeles is considering moving forward with establishing a government-funded tent encampment. Nationally, here’s how The New York Times summed it up in March of this year."Homelessness in the United States rose for the fourth straight year, with about 580,000 people living on the streets or in temporary shelter at the start of 2020, according to an annual nationwide survey that was completed before the pandemic.But the report, which was released on Thursday, almost certainly underestimates the spread, depth and urgency of the crisis, and not by a little, federal officials warned.Beyond the myriad factors that leave people on streets, expiring COVID-19 moratoriums on evictions mean that millions may soon find themselves without housing. For decades, Christian ministries have served food and offered temporary housing to people experiencing homelessness. Whose needs have these organizations traditionally met? And how successful have they been?John Ashmen has served as the CEO of Citygate Network since 2007, previously known as the Association of Gospel Rescue Missions and is the author of Invisible Neighbors. Before he went to what’s now Citygate, he served in the COO role of the Christian Camp and Conference Association. Ashmen joined global media manager Morgan Lee and executive editor Ted Olsen to talk about why homelessness is getting worse, why Christians don’t always agree on the solutions, and what it means for the church to love its neighbor when trying to consider what is best for those on the street, local businesses, and the safety of all. What is Quick to Listen? Read more Rate Quick to Listen on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter Follow our hosts on Twitter: Morgan Lee and Ted Olsen Learn more about our guest’s organization: Citygate Network Read John Ashmen’s interview at The Exchange Music by Sweeps Quick to Listen is produced by Morgan Lee and Matt Linder The transcript is edited by Bunmi Ishola Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you move someone in a desperate situation or crisis into a life flourishing and full of purpose?  Citygate Network's John Ashmen says it comes through life transformation, and that comes through knowing Christ.  He talks with Ed Stetzer about the work his group does to help transform those in crisis and show them a new life they can have in Christ. 

Nashville Rescue Mission CEO and Real Hope host, Glenn Cranfield, talks with John Ashmen, President of Citygate Network, about the effects the events of 2020 are having on the homeless community across the country and practical ways we can all play a part in serving them. Learn more about John Ashmen and Citygate Network: Citygate Network Website: www.citygatenetwork.org Twitter: @citygatetweets Facebook: @Citigatesocial Follow Glenn Cranfield: Website: www.glenncranfield.com Facebook: facebook.com/revglenncranfield Twitter: @glenncranfield IG: @revglenn Support Nashville Rescue Mission: Donate: www.nashvillerescuemission.org Twitter: @nashvillerescue IG: @nashvillerescue Facebook: facebook.com/nashvillerescuemission

John Ashmen, CEO of Citygate Network, works tirelessly leading the association that brings aid, respite, and relief to millions of homeless across America. John is also well-recognized as the author of Invisible Neighbors, deemed by many to be the ultimate guide to faith-based service and meaningful engagement with the poor. Each year the Citygate Network serves approximately 66 million meals, provides more than 20 million nights of shelter and housing, assists over 45,000 people find employment, and provides clothing for more than 750,000 people. Notably, the organization also graduates nearly 17,000 men and women annually from addiction programs into productive living. Tune in to hear the inspirational efforts and faith-based services that this remarkable organization provides with the help of over 300 missions and ministries across the country.

Join hospitality experts Mark P. Fisher, John Ashmen, Jim Blake, Jeff Gilman as they explore the ever changing ways faith-based organizations like camps, retreats, conference centers, homeless shelters and rescue missions MUST change, shift and innovate to meet today's needs.  Find a Rescue Mission: www.citygatenetwork.org Find a Christian Camp, Retreat or Conference Center: www.ccca.org Redwood Gospel Mission: www.srmission.org Alliance redwood Conference Grounds: https://allianceredwoods.com/ INTERACT WITH US AND OTHERS US ON FACEBOOK: PUBLIC PAGE: Inspiring Growth Podcast PRIVATE GROUP: Inspiring Growth Podcast   _____ Today's Inspiring Growth  podcast is brought to you by Red Truck Investments. The good folks for Red Truck Invests helps you sell your house quick! In any condition. Go to  Red Truck Investments to get started. _____ The Simple Reason Why CEO's Trust Inspiring Growth. Results. Mark P. Fisher inspires growth with CEO’s by increasing revenues, organizational leadership, & overall joy. Mark is offering a full digital scan of your online reputation FREE oF CHARGE ($149 VALUE) The idea is simple. Work on your brand now, make corrections so when the world starts buying again - you are positioned at the TOP. So, here are my questions for you? Do you know your online reputation GRADE? How accurate are your listings so potential customers find you fast? What are people saying about you through online reviews? How does your social media presence stack up against your competition? Is your website, advertising and SEO strong? If you'd like your free report, go to www.InspiringGrowth.biz .biz, click on Discover Your Online Reputation Grade. _____ JOIN THE INSPIRING GROWTH COMMUNITY: SEND A MESSAGE: Send me a voice message:  https://anchor.fm/inspiringgrowth/message  SHOW YOUR LOVE: Become a monthly $$ supporter of the Inspiring Growth podcast:  https://anchor.fm/inspiringgrowth/support. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/inspiringgrowth/message

1. 300 Gospel Missions helping American Homeless: John Ashmen 2. How City Gate Network is saving souls and lives 3. Did you know? Many die of heat stroke, not just cold weather. (c) 2019, Chaplain Gordon James Klingenschmitt, PhD. Airs on NRB TV, Direct TV Ch.378, Roku, Amazon FireTV, AndroidTV, GoogleTV, Smart TV, iTunes and www.PrayInJesusName.org

Radical Rebranding for Growth: Not just changing your logo... What is you brand? Amazon founder Jeff Bezos says 'your brand is what others say about your company when you are not in the room.' Is it current, fresh and representing who you are today? Join us for part 2 of my interview with John Ashmen. Over the course of 3 years, John navigated a difficult rebranding effort for a 100 year old organization - from AGRM to Citygate Network. _________ CHECK OUT OUR SPONSOR: If you run a non-profit, (or as I like to say - it runs you) check out my partner - Cause Inspired Media. They have helped get my non-profit clients up to $10,000 a month of free Google advertising to drive traffic to our website. Go to Inspiring Growth and complete a simple interest form to see if your non-profit qualifies for the $120,000 per year FREE Google Ad Grant. _________ WANT TO GROW? If you are a CEO and want to grow your business with 32 years of outsourced sales and marketing expertise - check out www.InspiringGrowth.biz. _________ JOIN THE COMMUNITY: Send me a voice message: https://anchor.fm/inspiringgrowth/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/inspiringgrowth/support --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/inspiringgrowth/message

One of our own social work alumni, John Ashmen ’74, president of City Gate Network, joins the podcast for some education on the Rescue Mission concept and how Christians can make wise choices in providing help that really does help. The post Cairn 10: On A Mission (with John Ashmen) appeared first on Cairn University.

One of our own social work alumni, John Ashmen ’74, president of City Gate Network, joins the podcast for some education on the Rescue Mission concept and how Christians can make wise choices in providing help that really does help. The post Cairn 10: On A Mission (with John Ashmen) appeared first on Cairn University.

John Ashmen from Association of Gospel Rescue Missions talks about seeking to serve those in need. Then, Ryan T. Anderson explains realities and concerns around gender dysphoria.

The post John Ashmen appeared first on Cairn University.

The post John Ashmen appeared first on Cairn University.

Part 2 of our interview with John Ashmen, the President of the Association of Gospel Rescue Missions!

John Ashmen, the President of the Association of Gospel Rescue Missions, shares how he came to faith through the ministry of his parents and how that propelled him into a lifelong passion for ministry himself! Tune in next week for Part 2 of our interview!