Podcast appearances and mentions of Ed Stetzer

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we're joined by John Plake, Chief Innovation Officer and Editor-in-Chief of the State of the Bible research at the American Bible Society. With decades of experience as a pastor, missionary, professor, and researcher, John brings a unique perspective on how people are actually engaging with Scripture and what we should do about it. The “movable middle” is growing. // One of the most significant insights from recent research is the rise of what John calls the “movable middle”—millions of people who are open to the Bible but not yet engaged with it. This group has grown by approximately nine million people in recent years. They are curious, interested, and even positive toward Scripture, but they lack the tools, confidence, or guidance to engage it meaningfully. This represents a massive opportunity for churches willing to step in and help. People want a guide. // Through focus groups and research, John discovered that many people in the movable middle feel intimidated by the Bible. They struggle with language, context, and navigation. But perhaps most striking is they want help. Contrary to what some leaders might assume, they are not rejecting the church as a guide. In fact, many say, “If we can't trust the church to help us understand the Bible, what good is it?” This creates a clear invitation for churches to step into a more relational, guiding role in discipleship. A surprising discipleship gap. // One of the most sobering findings is that nearly half of weekly church attenders are not regularly engaging Scripture on their own. While churches invest heavily in preaching and programming, many people are not developing personal habits of Bible engagement. John suggests that churches often focus on delivering content rather than equipping people to engage Scripture themselves. The result is a gap between what happens on Sunday and what happens in everyday life. From teaching to equipping. // If churches want to close that gap, they must shift from being primarily content providers to equipping environments. This means helping people develop the skills, habits, and confidence to read and apply Scripture on their own. It also requires understanding the real barriers people face, like time constraints, confusion, or lack of community support, and addressing those barriers with practical solutions. A new tool for churches. // To help leaders take action, the American Bible Society has developed the “Next Step for Church” assessment. This free tool allows churches to measure spiritual health, Bible engagement, and key leadership behaviors within their congregation. Within a few weeks, leaders receive a detailed, data-driven report highlighting strengths, challenges, and suggested next steps. Data that leads to discipleship. // John emphasizes that data is not an end in itself; it's a tool for better shepherding. By listening to their congregation at scale, leaders can identify patterns, confirm instincts, and prioritize what matters most. The assessment surfaces both what's working and where growth is needed, giving churches a clear path forward. It also connects individuals to personalized Scripture engagement resources, helping them take their next step spiritually. Why Scripture engagement matters most. // Nothing has a greater impact on spiritual growth than a person's relationship with the Bible. In fact, Scripture engagement accounts for a significant portion of overall spiritual health. When people consistently engage with God's Word, transformation follows—affecting beliefs, behaviors, and relationships. Signs of hope for the future. // Despite broader cultural challenges, John sees encouraging trends, especially among younger generations. Millennials and Gen Z show increasing openness to Scripture, even if they are still exploring. While overall trends may appear flat, meaningful change is happening beneath the surface. For churches willing to engage this moment, there is real opportunity for impact. To explore the research further or access the free church assessment, visit church.nextstep.bible and begin discovering how your church can better equip people to engage Scripture every day. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Risepointe Do you feel like your church’s or school's facility could be preventing growth? Are you frustrated or possibly overwhelmed at the thought of a complicated or costly building project? Are the limitations of your building becoming obstacles in the path of expanding your ministry? Have you ever felt that you could reach more people if only the facility was better suited to the community’s needs? Well, the team over at Risepointe can help! As former ministry staff and church leaders, they understand how to prioritize and help lead you to a place where the building is a ministry multiplier. Your mission should not be held back by your building. Their team of architects, interior designers and project managers have the professional experience to incorporate creative design solutions to help move YOUR mission forward. Check them out at risepointe.com and while you’re there, schedule a FREE call to explore possibilities for your needs, vision and future…Risepointe believes that God still uses spaces…and they're here to help. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. I am so glad that you have decided to tune in today. This is one of those episodes that there’s a great resource in it that going to want to make sure you engage with. There’s super helpful content. Plus it’s about an area that I know so many of us are thinking about, we’re wondering about, we’re asking questions about. Rich Birch — So super excited to have John Plake with us today. He is the chief innovator ah innovation officer and editor-in-chief of the State of the Bible Research Series, which comes from the American Bible Society. And they’re on a mission to make the Bible available to every person in a language and format each can understand and afford so that all may experience its life-changing message. ABS has really a whole bunch of different tools and approaches, and we’re excited kind of expose a little bit more about that today. John has been in ministry over 30 years. We’ll just call it over 30 years. And it served as a pastor, missionary, professor, researcher. John, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.John Plake — Thanks so much for having me today. It’s great to be with you.Rich Birch — Why don’t you fill in the picture a little bit? Tell us a little bit about your background. You know, what brings you to your current work?John Plake — Yeah. Closer to 40 years now. Rich Birch — Nice. Yeah, yeah. That’s great.John Plake — It’s a little uncomfortable to talk about that.Rich Birch — That’s great.John Plake — Yeah. You know, I start out like a lot of people in ministry. I grew up in a home that ministry was central. Actually, both my grandfathers were ministers. My father was a minister. Ministry is kind of the family business in a way, but I really did sense a direction from God when I was about 15 years old to to pursue full-time ministry.John Plake — There was some detail around that. Ended up going to Bible college and and then started what turned out to be about nine years of full-time pastoral service. And I hadn’t been in that for very long before I realized that everything I learned in Bible College was preparing me to serve a generation that no longer existed in a culture that was gone. John Plake — And I thought, my goodness, I know God’s word pretty well. And mean, I’m a lifelong learner of God’s word. I love the Bible. And yet, didn’t really know culture very well. And I didn’t develop those tools until just years and years of practice, some missionary service, wonderful teachers at at Wheaton College and graduate school and and just a lifelong journey of learning.John Plake — So at American Bible Society, when I got here, the State of the Bible, program or this research project was already underway. And we’d been helped out by the Barna Group, which does some wonderful foundational work. And eventually it just kind of grew up and it got to a place where we had an internal team that was running it ourselves, now in collaboration with the National Opinion Research Council or NORC at the University of Chicago. We just do, I think, what is the largest ongoing study of Americans’ relationship with the Bible and faith and the church. And we get to talk about it all the time. Rich Birch — Yeah, I love it.John Plake — So, I mean, this is the best job in the world.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. It’s it’s great research, something that I think should be on the kind of list of things that we need to be paying attention to. It’s been a gift to the church for so long and something that we should continue to to pay attention through. Now, let’s talk about you specifically. You spent three plus decades. I didn’t want to say almost 40. You know, I’m not saying that. I’m not saying that. I could say that, you know, a couple years ago, I clicked across one of those numbers with a zero on the end as my birthday. And ever since then, I’m a little sensitive about the the age thing. Rich Birch — So anyways, As a ministry, missionary professor, researcher, you’ve done a lot. How does wearing all of those hats, what do you what does that bring to you as you come to the data? How does that impact you as you think about really the state of the Bible research?John Plake — Yeah, you know, I think research can be dull. You know, it can sound like it’s all about writing questions or it’s all statistics and numbers. But for me, the research is all about the people. Rich Birch — So true.John Plake — It’s all about the people in our communities and in our churches that we’re trying to understand better so we can serve them well with the gospel. I, for years, I’ve used the analogy that that being in gospel ministry is like being a human bridge across a river. I grew up not very far from the Mississippi River in the St. Louis area, and there was a big 100-year flood when I was early on in ministry. And I mean, none of the bridges worked anymore. You couldn’t get from one side to the other.John Plake — And I thought, you know, that’s a tragedy that I encountered sometimes in ministry where maybe I was deeply rooted in one bank of the river, the text, but I wasn’t necessarily deeply rooted in the other bank of the river, which was the context.John Plake — And it’s this lived experience of the people that I was I was serving. And that I wanted to serve in my community, but I needed to understand them better. So I wasn’t just spouting you know Aristotelian logic to them. Or I wasn’t just coming at them with the pat answers that I’d learned. Like I’d never heard anybody in my life walk into my office and say, Pastor John, you got to tell me, what can you describe hamartiology to me from. You know like I had to learn that in school, but that’s not what people struggle with. Rich Birch — That’s so true. Yeah. John Plake — They had totally different questions and I needed to love them and honor them enough to understand their questions and answer them responsibly and reliably from the pages of scripture.Rich Birch — Yeah, love it. Okay, well, we’re going to dig into a little bit of just a couple of the findings just to kind of, we’re trying to whet your appetite, friends, to take steps towards this. So the 2025 data showed, and we’ve seen this, a real bump in Bible engagement, particularly among millennials and men. If I’m reading it correctly, though, we saw 2026, a shift happen, maybe back down. And so what’s going on? Actually, I heard another sociologist in a kind of a related field that was about church attendance talked about the dead cat bounce, that it was like, you know, which I thought, oh, that’s a, but there’s a similarity going on here. Pull this, this finding apart. Help us understand this.John Plake — Yeah, apologies to cat lovers out there.Rich Birch — Yes, exactly.John Plake — We were we were hoping, you know, I think we were really hoping. We looked at 2025. We saw that men in particular were leaning into the Bible in ways we hadn’t seen recently. Millennials doing the same thing. There there were some interesting numbers in 2025. And so when the 2026 numbers came to my desk in late January, I thought, I hope we’re extending I hope it’s going to be a trend. But it wasn’t. It was a blip.John Plake — And there’s more to it, though, than just the fact that scripture engagement didn’t go up. It also didn’t go down. And the level of people in America who are Bible disengaged, meaning they never pick up the Bible on purpose at all, that actually didn’t go up either. What grew was this kind of curious explorer group in the middle that we call the movable middle. And over the last two years, it’s grown by 9 million American adults. Rich Birch — Wow.John Plake — And so what we do see is there’s there’s openness to the Bible. There’s experimentation with the Bible. But people are jumping in and they’re trying it and they’re not being able to get hold of it. And I think that’s largely because of us.John Plake — Because Bible people who are around them aren’t saying, please come do this with me. Let me help you. Let me honor you enough to to respect your questions, to ask what you’re dealing with, and help you explore those issues through the pages of Scripture.Rich Birch — I love that movable middle, man, that feels like the kind of group we want to connect with and reach out to in our community. Any other, when you, when you’ve been thinking about this movable middle, what are some other kind of characteristics of those people or other things that, you know, are kind of telltale signs of this group as we’re thinking about them as it, as it pertains to Bible engagement?John Plake — Yeah, they’re an amazing group, and we’re going talking more about them all year, but they are probably my favorite subject in America. There are 74 million American adults that are in the movable middle.Rich Birch — Wow.John Plake — 74 million of our neighbors who are like…Rich Birch — Wow.John Plake — …and here’s what they tend to say: They love the Bible. They think it’s a great idea. But if you handed them a Bible, they don’t know how to find what they’re looking for. They don’t know how to navigate it. They get confused by the language in in Scripture.John Plake — I remember doing a a focus group with a bunch of people in the movable middle. I was in Chicago. it was an area I was really familiar with. I used to pastor in that area. And we got them talking about their experience with the Bible. And we said, hey, does anything ever stop you or kind of you know make you check out because you’re struggling with what’s going on? John Plake — And one young lady at the table said, yeah, you know the language of the Bible is really really hard for me to understand. It’s it’s a really old book. It uses expressions I don’t understand. And a gentleman sitting across the table from her just kind of chuckled and said, yeah, what the hell’s a mustard seed? And everybody laughed.John Plake — I was behind the glass and I just about fell out of my chair because they didn’t teach me to talk like that in a Assemblies of God seminary.Rich Birch — Yes.John Plake —Things like that, you know, that’s just not the way we roll.Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah. Yes.John Plake — But it was so authentic and he wasn’t being mean.Rich Birch — No.John Plake — He was just saying, boy, I don’t I don’t get it. And then they said, you know, we really want a guide. Rich Birch — That’s good.John Plake — And so we pushed on that a little bit. At the time, there were some clergy abuse scandals that actually there were billboards up in Chicago about clergy abuse scandals that all of us lamented. And so we’re like, OK, listen, do you trust the church to be your guide? Because ee saw these billboards, you know, and it’s your city. And so what what do you think?John Plake — And they said, well, of course we do. I mean, it’s terrible when people in the church abuse their position and abuse others. And that’s not what they’re supposed to do. But if we can’t trust the church to help us understand the Bible, what good are they, really? And so, yes, we’re looking to you, church, to help us connect more deeply with the Bible, understand what it meant to the original hearers and readers and how we apply it to our lives today.Rich Birch — Okay, that’s yeah, that’s really cool. I look forward to hearing more about the movable middle in this coming year. Another thing that jumped out to me, which I feel like, man, I’ve seen this in my church. This is like you you named a group that I see, but it’s surprising, at least it’s surprising on its face. So nearly half of weekly church attenders, weekly church attenders, which is, that’s like really engaged, you know, are not regularly engaging, engaging scripture on their own.Rich Birch — Man, what, so what should we do about that? That’s an interesting, how does, how should that impact our discipleship strategy? What are you encouraging us to be thinking about? And these people that are with us all the time, but they’re not engaged with scripture.John Plake — Well, I think the first thing to do is to just recognize it. Rich Birch — Right.John Plake — You know, a lot of pastors that I’ve talked to, when we talk about scripture engagement, they tell me things like this: Everything we do is scripture engagement. I spend my whole week preparing a scriptural message. I’m, you know, we’re preparing small group curriculum and Sunday school curriculum and all of this stuff. It’s all about the, everything we do is about the Bible. John Plake — Well, okay. But I had a I had a young youth pastor come to me not that long ago and he said, John, look, you were me once a few years ago. If you knew then what you know now, what would you do differently?John Plake — And the answer is I would do everything differently, than the way I ought to do it. Because what, in my tradition, there was a lot of emphasis on the preaching event, and I put a lot of effort into those communication events, but what I didn’t put as much effort into is empowering people in my church to do what I was doing, which was dig into scripture, understand it for themselves, giving them the tools to do that.John Plake — And then in May, we’re going to be releasing a chapter, just in a few few days now, we’re going to be releasing a chapter all about parents. And one of the startling things is the time pressure that moms are under. I mean, it’s incredible. And so we need to understand where they’re coming from and where they have barriers, but also have some compassion on them and help to support them when they’re really facing struggles. Like they don’t have enough time. They don’t have the resources or the community coming around them to help them to engage God’s word ah more fulsomely, more transformatively.John Plake — We know how to do this stuff, but we’re not connecting the dots to everybody that’s coming to hear us talk every…Rich Birch — That’s good. That’s good. I know I’ve in my seat as an XP, um you know, I’ve overseen a lot of what we do on the programming side and what we do on the weekends. And I’ve, you know, it’s like, that i don’t think I’ve ever said this publicly. It’s like the kind of behind the scenes conversation. I’ve sometimes wondered, I’ve said, you know, like, what we do on the weekend to try to make the Bible understandable is so completely different than Tuesday morning in someone’s life. Rich Birch — Like, we pull out all the stops to make it interesting. We get like world class communicators, incredible graphics, you know, emotional music, all of this to try to… But then the question is, okay, so now on Tuesday morning when you’re tired and you haven’t had your coffee yet and you’re just about to go read scripture, man, like that feels like a long ways away. There’s like a gap there that I sometimes wonder maybe we’re making it worse. You know. Maybe we’re making it harder. I said that. You didn’t say that. Rich Birch — So maybe there’s pastors that are listening here and they read this kind of report. They read this kind of finding and they’re like, hey, that’s interesting. But like, how what do I do in my church specifically? So you know we want we don’t want to just leave people with a tough stat.Rich Birch — I think we see that in our church. There’s people in our church that are here all the time. They’re not that engaged. But you’ve actually developed a new tool or ABS has developed a new tool to help us think through that. Why don’t you walk us through it? Tell us a little bit about it. How’s it work? Talk us how it can help us.John Plake — Yeah, so recently we developed two tools that kind of work together. One of them you can find on the internet at nextstep.bible. And it’s just for anybody who’s like, hey, I’m on a spiritual journey. I’m kind of stuck. I don’t really know what to do next. Maybe you’re just getting started exploring what it means to be a Christian. Maybe you’re Jesus’ little brother or sister. Wherever you are in that journey, there’s always a next step for us.John Plake — And so what we’ve done is analyzed along about a million spiritual life surveys. Rich Birch — Wow.John Plake — And from this huge quantity of data, we’ve learned that people are at different places in that journey. They’re at different points on the map. And we want to make sure that they’re equipped to have the right thing at the right time. I think currently there are 21,000 scripture engagement resources available there.Rich Birch — Wow.John Plake — They’re absolutely free. They’re in English, Spanish, and French. So go check it out, nextstep.bible.John Plake — But if you’re a pastor or you’re a church leader, you’re probably wondering, well, what’s going on in my church, right? So I see all the national data, but I think our tendency is to say, well, we’re the exception, right?Rich Birch — So true. Well, that’s not our people. John Plake — I know I know everybody else is struggling, but we’re doing okay.Rich Birch — Yes.John Plake — And and so it’s good to check our assumptions a little bit. They used to say a really sad statistic that 10 o’clock on Sunday morning was the most segregated hour in America, which makes me sad. What makes me sad also is that 12 o’clock noon in America is the most dishonest hour in America. That’s the hour when pastors tend to start greeting their people after the church service closes and they hear all these comments: oh, Pastor, that was the best sermon I’ve ever heard. And it wasn’t. It just wasn’t. All right, let’s face it.John Plake — There’s somebody out there who preaches better than you do and better than I do. They’re available on YouTube. People don’t need you to be the best Bible teacher in the world. They need you to be the best pastor for them. Rich Birch — That’s good.John Plake — And the tools that are all about focusing on their relationship with the Bible, their holistic spiritual formation, and our leadership behaviors. And so for that, we built the Next Step for Church Assessment.John Plake — It’s actually standing on the foundation or built on the engine block, if you want a different metaphor, of the old reveal research that the Willow Creek Association had come out with. It’s no longer available. And we were able to acquire all of their historical learnings, but also add in things like human flourishing and e-pastoral leadership behaviors that lead to churches really being missionally effective and strong. Excellent stuff on Bible engagement and spiritual formation. John Plake — So the the big challenge we had, I was talking with Dr. Ed Stetzer about this because he was at LifeWay Research when the Transformational Church Assessment was being built. And it was always hard because analyzing this kind of data required a lot of human intervention. It’s very expensive to do. It’s very complicated to deliver. And even a small cost can be a barrier for churches that have strained budgets. It doesn’t matter if you’re a church of, you know, 2,500 25,000 or 250. There’s always more places to put your money than there are dollars that are available to do it.John Plake — And so at American Bible Society, we said, you know what, as a gift to the church, because we love the church, we need to make it completely free. And so you can go to church.nextstep.bible and you could sign up today. Literally, we’re recording this on a on a Thursday. You could go there today and by Sunday, you could be launching your survey. Two weeks later, you’d automatically have results in your own online dashboard. You’d get key highlights emailed to you. There’s a place for custom questions. There’s just all kinds of really, really rich information.Rich Birch — So good.John Plake — And it it doesn’t take the place of the kind of learning that you have as a pastor. You learn deeply in relationship with others. You’re observing what’s going on. You have a team that’s around you. But what it does is it provides this valid, reliable sift and sort function. It’s based on well, I don’t know even know how many, well over 3000 churches, well over half a million survey responses went into building this and making it a tool that that is a good benchmark for you to say, you know what, if we want to move from where we are today to where God is calling us, here are the things we need to focus on.Rich Birch — It’s so good. And friends, I want to encourage you to to go there. Just church.nextstep.bible. I know many of us have a heart for saying, listen, we want to measure more than just nickels and noses. The number of people that show up and revenue that comes in. And this a great way to kind of inject at something that’s at the core of what we’re supposed to be doing as a church. So why don’t we just give a little bit more detail?Rich Birch — What is it? You know, what’s it actually measuring? How is it? You know, how could it be helpful? How how could it kind of dovetail with some of the things we’re already tracking? Maybe give us, you know, what kind of insights are we going to gain from this if we if we put our people through this?John Plake — Yeah, maybe it’s worthwhile to just back up and say it’s based on a congregational assessment. So really this kind of work is all about just listening to your congregation at scale. So if you have 25 people coming to church, you can probably have this conversation with them if you know how to ask the right questions. Rich Birch — Right.John Plake — You can go to the website. You’re like, what’s in the survey? There’s a button you can click. You can read the whole survey. It’s fine. We’re not going to try and surprise you with anything. But really simple stuff. How’s your relationship with Jesus? How often are you interacting with Scripture? What difference is that making in your life? We ask the standard Harvard human flourishing questions. We ask about um how the pastoral team or the senior pastor, him or herself, is doing at actually modeling Christlike leadership for you. Rich Birch — It’s so good.John Plake — And all of that reporting then gets brought into a database. It’s all anonymous. So individuals don’t, they don’t have to tell you who they are. They can’t tell you who they are other than by characteristics. And you’re going to get this really good, robust picture of what’s going on at the church. John Plake — Now, what does it take for somebody to do that? It takes about 20 minutes of their time, and time is expensive, right? People always have too much to do. So in return for that investment, at the end of their survey experience, they will have already told us everything we need to know to match them to great resources at nextstep.bible.John Plake — And with their permission, not without it, they can click a button, pass that data over to the individual nextstep.bible platform. They can create an account and right away, they’re going to be finding things like YouVersion Bible reading plans that are just for them.John Plake — If you’ve got people in your church and they’re outliers, they’re they’re way more spiritually advanced than everybody else, or they’re just getting started and everybody else is way ahead of them, these kinds of tools create bespoke pathways for them so they know what to do next. All the while, the church leadership can sit back and say, okay, here’s our results. And as a team, now what do we need to do to serve the whole congregation well?Rich Birch — I love this. You know, this is what incredible tool that you’ve put together here for our churches to wrestle through and to, you know, not only help us as a church as we’re thinking about these issues, but then help individuals in our church. What what would be some of the ways that churches might use the data that’s generated to impact what we’re doing in our programming? How how could we use this to improve what we’re doing?John Plake — Sure. There are really three things we want everybody to do. First, just discover what’s going on. Just just check your assumptions at the door and and say, okay, what do the data tell us about what’s going on in our church life and in our people’s lives? That’s the first thing.John Plake — Second thing is it’s going to surface for you the top three things that you’re doing great. And it’s going to give them to you in the report. And you need to throw a party. Like there are people who make these things happen for you. No pastor is doing this all by themselves. And so plan a party, celebrate what’s going well.John Plake — The third thing it’s going to do is it’s going to give you suggestions about, okay, here’s where your congregation is today. It won’t surprise you, but it might inform you. I’ve never seen a pastor look at the report and go, ah you guys got it wrong. Rich Birch — Sure, right.John Plake — Usually they they see the report and they go, yeah, okay, yeah, you got me.Rich Birch — Yeah. Confirmed some hunches I’ve had. Yeah. Yeah.John Plake — Right? But we don’t we don’t have time. We don’t have the resources. We don’t have the expertise to be able to sit down and and kind of scientifically walk through this process. So we do that for you. We deliver the report. And then we’re going to give you two key action items that we think churches like yours in a similar place have done that have helped move them toward spiritual health and missional effectiveness.John Plake — And that’s really what it’s all about. We want your congregation to be spiritually healthy. We want your your church as a whole to be missionally effective. And when that happens, often there’s numerical growth. Often there’s financial growth. But there’s certainly more missional impact that’s coming through your congregation and its work.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s cool. So if I’m like a church of a thousand people, let’s say, and just round number to picking out of the sky, how how what kind of percentage of my congregation would I need to take this to give me a reasonable, you know, statistical, you know, feeling good about the data for it? What what kind of number um should I be thinking about?John Plake — Well, the first thing is we’ve built in a tool that will tell you how to get to a margin of error of plus or minus 3%. Rich Birch — Love it.John Plake — And that does vary depending on the adult attendance that you have. So let’s say you’ve a thousand adults. And by adults, I mean anybody in high school or older can probably take this survey. Rich Birch — Yep.John Plake — And you can cut the data like by gender or by age. All of that live filtering is in the online platform. Rich Birch — Oh, that’s so good.John Plake — So if you’re the you’re the youth pastor and you’re like, well, wait, tell me about the young people that took the survey. You can just look right at them and compare them to the rest of the congregation, which I bet will be enlightening. But nevertheless, how many do you need if you’re a church of 1,000, it’s about 275.Rich Birch — Okay.John Plake — If it’s a smaller church than that, then you’re still going to need a pretty significant percentage. So if I roll that all the way down to a church of 100, you need 80.Rich Birch — Okay.John Plake — And if you roll that up to a church of 5,000, well, you don’t need that many more than 275.Rich Birch — Interesting.John Plake — So you’re going to report that out to you. It’s very, very doable. And, you know, I’ve pastored at large churches and I pastored a small church. And I’ll tell you, when I pastored a church of under 100, I could have gotten a census of the people, like everybody, to do a survey like this. They would have been glad to tell me these things. Rich Birch — Right.John Plake — And it’s not that I couldn’t have had a conversation one-on-one with most of the adults in the congregation. It was something different in that case. I actually didn’t know what to ask. I used to run into this when I was a campus pastor at a Christian university. And I would have young people walk into my office and I was like, I know I should be able to help them, but the challenge they’re facing is different than anything I’m familiar with. I don’t have any analog for this in my personal experience. And so this sort of takes the mystery away. We don’t ask fluffy questions. We ask research proven questions that are going to give you the information you really need so you can take action.Rich Birch — That’s amazing. That’s think this is such a great tool for people. I can see how, you know, it’d be so helpful for folks that are listening in to, you know, might be be able to plug in grab this experience for their people, help their church, help the folks that are attending. That’s, that’s incredible.Rich Birch — So, you know, you’ve picked an interesting vocation to be connected with the American Bible Society. And because, you know, this is such a critical and important part of developing people’s relationship, obviously, with Jesus; its core to all of it. And we have seen a long historical downward trend, and you’re pushing against that, which is amazing. But what gives you hope in the middle of all of that? What would it when you look at the church around you know, the country, where do you see flashes of just good things going on that are like, you know, when it comes to the relationship with scripture that even, you know, even when we see maybe the overall numbers are not as great as we want them to be, what are some kind of flashes of hope we should, that we could encourage folks with today?John Plake — Well, I’d like to maybe point to just three things that leap to mind. Rich Birch — Yep.John Plake — The first of them is I never talk to anybody in the church who says the Bible is a bad idea. Rich Birch — Sure.John Plake — Everybody likes the Bible. We’re all trying to figure out how to communicate its message better, to understand it more deeply. It’s transforming our lives, and we want to be able to share it with others. John Plake — And that’s great because, number two, there’s nothing that makes a bigger difference in somebody’s spiritual life than their relationship with the Bible. I mean, absolutely nothing. And I’m saying this as a researcher. I’ve tested it. I can’t find anything that makes a bigger difference. John Plake — In fact, when we looked at Christian college and university students, 60% of their overall spiritual health across lots of domains—beliefs, practice, putting faith into action, loving God, loving others, all these things, 60% of the variance in their spiritual health is solely accounted for by their relationship with the Bible.John Plake — So if we can help people have a dynamic relationship with scripture, we win. That’s all there is to it. It’s just that simple. And so that is really encouraging.John Plake — And then the third thing, ah the third thing is how I say this nicely? I'm I’m from Gen X and so to my Baby Boomer friends, I’m sorry, but you guys don’t have the influence that you once did.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s true.John Plake — And that’s a good thing because there’s new openness among Millennials, and Gen Z and even younger Gen X um that we just don’t see among Baby Boomers. It’s like Baby Boomers made up their minds in the 60s and early 70s and said, this is what I believe and I’m not changing. And they haven’t. John Plake — That’s not to say that someone who’s a Baby Boomer can’t have a a spiritual experience and transformational experience. It does happen. But on the population level, like when we looked at the Bay Area of San Francisco, if you look at the scripture engagement, church engagement, love God, love others data in the Bay Area, it looks like what you’d expect, until you strip out the Baby Boomers. And then suddenly it looks better than every place else in America.John Plake — You’re like, what’s going on? Well, looks like all the unreconstructed hippies that moved to the Bay Area are actually holding a lid on the population numbers. And when you remove that and you go, oh, wait a minute, let me look under the headline and say what’s happening. There’s more going on than is easy to see. And I think this happens in big national trends.John Plake — Oh, is Scripture engagement up or down? Is you know church attendance up or down? Whats what’s going… big national trends. Yeah, okay, those are helpful, and we want those to change. But what’s changing first is below the fold. Things in Gen Z, things among Millennials, things in young men, those things are starting to change, and I think those are the first glimmerings that God is at work in a new way in America, and I can’t wait to see it.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s that’s a great word. And that lines up with what we’re seeing, even just experientially talking to churches across the country. You know we’re so we’re seeing there is something going on with younger generations, which is great to see. I was I was born in 1974, the lowest birth rate year of the 20th century. I am classic Gen X. Like you know I am like statistic I’m the statistical average Gen X and has spent a lot of my time trying to hand stuff from the Boomers to the Millennials. And, yeah, there’s lots of encouraging news there, particularly with the younger generations. Rich Birch — I also want to speak to on the the work I’ve done in the church growth stuff that I’ve done and coaching I’ve done with churches, one of the things that’s just undeniable is churches that have a high view of scripture, that is, they’re trying to get people engaged with scripture. They they talk about it like it’s actually true. How do we say don’t know what’s the best way to talk about that? Those are the churches that are prevailing, and that actually works out statistically. You see that time and again. Talk to us about that dynamic, which is kind of co-related to the things we’re talking about today. From your perspective in the stats and all that, how how have you seen that work out as you’ve looked at churches across the country?John Plake — Yeah, I think you’re exactly right. The churches that are the healthiest in America, that are growing, that where where people are spiritually healthy, have a really dynamic relationship with Scripture. And it kind of it cuts across tradition. Rich Birch — Yep.John Plake — There are some traditional things going on. I was listening to Justin Brierley and his surprising Rebirth of Belief in God podcast, and it was from last season, and he he had someone on, he was interviewing, and what she was saying was there are the parts of the church that seem to be thriving are kind of the, the the older, the ancientness traditions, whether it’s Catholic or Orthodox, that what she called somewhat irreverently, the smells and bells side of of the church.Rich Birch — Sure, sure.John Plake — And on the other side, kind of my end of the swimming pool, I’m, from the Assemblies of God, so the Pentecostal and Charismatic side. And she said, what’s going on is that both ends of that spectrum are totalizing. John Plake — They’re saying, you know what, the the Bible places certain expectations and demands on people. Christ places certain expectations and demands on people. And these parts of the church aren’t sort of shy about talking about that from a biblical perspective. She said, what’s what’s dying is that part in the middle where we’ve reduced church to a PowerPoint and you know an Excel spreadsheet. And she said, that part of the church seems to be dying and no one’s coming to the funeral. Rich Birch — That’s good. John Plake — And I thought, you know okay, right?Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah, that’s good.John Plake — So if we revitalize our relationship with God through scripture, there’s a next step for every church. It doesn’t matter what, you know whether you’re mainline or evangelical or, you know, Pentecostal or Orthodox or whatever it is, but but reviving our relationship with God through Scripture is really where it’s at.Rich Birch — That’s so good. i Yeah, I call that middle group the just because it rhymes doesn’t mean it’s true group. You know, like the, you know, were just like, it’s all my thoughts. No one wants to come and find us. They want to find God ultimately. Well, I don’t want to pick any fights with anybody that’s listening in, but I really appreciate today’s conversation, John. This has been great. So we want to send people to church.nextstep.bible.Rich Birch — The the promise of in two weeks, your church could have a comprehensive report on spiritual health, on where your church is, spiritual health is at, that’s a huge promise. And so again, this is go to church.nextstep.bible. Any kind of final words as we wrap up today’s episode?John Plake — You know, you might be familiar with Cally Parkinson. Cally was the co-author of all of the Reveal books, every single one of them. She was head of communications for the Willow Creek Association when they were running this. She’s probably had more conversations with pastors and church leaders about survey results like this than anybody I know, maybe than anybody alive. And Cally likes this so much. She said, John, I want to have a personal consultation with the first hundred churches that go through this.John Plake — And so if you want to be in that group, she’s going to offer to spend an hour with you and just walk through your results and help explain it. There are videos throughout the platform that will explain it as well. And you can’t beat talking to Cally. She loves pastors. She says you’re the salt of the earth. And she just really wants to serve you because the work that you do to save people is just so valuable to her. So anyway, just wanted to offer that. And I know you’d probably love to meet Cally.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s fantastic. Well, appreciate you being here today. Thanks for the great work you do at the American Bible Society. John, appreciate you being on today. Thank you.John Plake — Thank you.

Episode Summary:In this episode, host Kenny Jahng sits down with Dr. Ed Stetzer, Dean of the Talbot School of Theology at Biola University, to explore how AI technology is disrupting relationships, fueling loneliness, and reshaping the mission of the Church. They dive deep into how pastors and ministry leaders can thoughtfully respond as more people—especially young adults—turn to chatbots for connection and counsel. Listeners will discover practical wisdom for stewarding AI in ministry, fostering authentic community, and creating space for biblical reflection amidst rapid technological change.In This Episode, You'll Learn:Why AI has emerged at a critical time for relational and mental health crises in societyHow large language models and chatbots are changing where people turn for advice and therapyWhat pastors can do to address the epidemic of loneliness exacerbated by technologyThe importance of preserving human-in-the-loop oversight when using AI tools in ministryHow to encourage countercultural, authentic Christian community in a digital agePowerful cautions and boundaries for deploying AI-generated content in church communicationsWhy discernment and theological reflection must pace with technology adoption among church staffKey Quotes:“AI comes along and it personifies and personalizes your opportunity to have relationships online.” — Ed Stetzer“The antidote to an AI-driven crisis of loneliness is small community where we provoke one another to love and good deeds.” — Ed Stetzer“You don't have to be an expert on AI, but you can call people to community.” — Ed Stetzer“If I'm in between the output of AI and where I'm placing it, that's a line I know I'm on the right side of.” — Corey (Sermon Shots)“The rate of adoption is outpacing the thoughtfulness to it.” — Kenny JahngLinks & Resources Mentioned:Sermon Shots: https://sermonshots.comTalbot School of Theology, Biola University: https://www.biola.edu/talbotChurchTechToday.com: https://churchtechtoday.comExponential AI Next: https://exponential.org/ai-next/ State of AI in the Church Reportedstetzer.com: http://edstetzer.comAbout the Church Tech Today Podcast:The Church Tech Today Podcast helps pastors, church staff, and ministry leaders navigate the intersection of faith and technology with confidence. Hosted by Kenny Jahng and brought to you by www.FrontDoor.church.

In today’s science-driven, rational world, belief is dismissed as an artefact of a bygone era. But as life grows ever more confusing, contemplating something bigger than ourselves has never been more vital. Ed Stetzer talks with Alister McGrath about his book, Why We Believe and how belief in God provides meaning in the face of existential despair, how it fosters community and offers solace on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Our complex and rapidly changing world has given many Gen-Zers unique questions about life and God. Church methodologies that worked for past generations often miss their mark with this one. Ed Stetzer talks with Gen Z expert Tanita Maddox about her book, What Gen Z Really Wants to Know about God and how we can connect with this generation with meaningful conversations and deeper connections and disciple them toward a vibrant, sustainable faith on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You've been hurt... but the idea of forgiving that person may feel like you're just letting them off the hook. When we look at social media, we see a culture shaped by outrage, punishment and fear. But what if the opposite is true? Ed Stetzer talks with theologian Amy Orr-Ewing about her book, Forgiveness: Reclaiming its Power in a Culture of Outrage and Fear and why forgiveness is not a denial of justice but can be a powerful path toward healing, freedom and hope, both for you and for society on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What does it mean to be human in an age that celebrates the destruction of the sacred? In this timely episode, Ed Stetzer sits down with renowned historian and author Carl Trueman to discuss his latest work, The Desecration of Man. Following the success of The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self, Trueman explores how the rejection of external authority and the ascent of "expressive individualism" have led us to a point where we no longer just ignore meaning—we actively delight in smashing it.From the pervasive influence of technology and AI to the complex ethical landscapes of IVF and surrogacy, Trueman traces the roots of our modern malaise back to thinkers like Rousseau, Freud, and Nietzsche. Together, Ed and Carl wrestle with how the church can offer a "consecrated" alternative, pointing to the Imago Dei as the only stable foundation for human dignity. This is a vital conversation for leaders seeking to navigate a culture that is rapidly reconfiguring the very definition of humanity.ABOUT OUR GUESTCarl Trueman is a theologian, historian, and author known for his work on church history, theology, culture, and the modern self. He serves as a professor at Grove City College and previously taught at Westminster Theological Seminary and the University of Nottingham.Trueman is widely recognized for his thoughtful analysis of contemporary culture through the lens of historic Christianity. His bestselling book The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self has significantly shaped evangelical discussions about identity, expressive individualism, and cultural change. A frequent conference speaker and commentator, Trueman combines scholarly depth and cultural insight as he helps Christians think carefully about faithfulness and truth in a rapidly changing world.

As a church leader, how do you measure success by more than program attendance— but by true life transformation? How do you carry ministry beyond the walls of your church into the places your people live, work, and play? Ed Stetzer talks with Robby Gallaty about his book, Movement-Ready Church and how to equip pastors to build disciples in your church on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Many Christians feel it—but don’t know how to name it. Their faith isn’t gone, but it’s not as strong as it once was. Convictions feel harder to hold and cultural pressure feels harder to resist. Ed Stetzer talks to Aaron Graham about his book, Unshakeable Faith: How to Stand Firm in a Culture of Lies and the subtle lies that reshape Christianity from within, and how we can build a faith that can withstand a culture of confusion without losing conviction or compassion on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Somewhere along the way, some of us may stop following our heart and start listening to the lies and discouragement that can take residence in our minds. Thoughts of failure or that you're not good enough... those thoughts often popping up when life gets tough. Ed Stetzer talks with Heather Thompson Day about her book, What if I'm Wrong? Navigating the Waves of Fear and Failure and how what's hardest to accomplish may be our greatest area of passion and purpose.... And how with our reliance on God, we can find fulfillment in everything we do, from work, to rest and our relationships on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We don’t like pain. So we try to avoid it or deny it, but we're still left hurting. And yet our suffering presents an opportunity to encounter God and allow Him to redeem our pain. Ed Stetzer talks with Liz Hall about her book, When the Journey Hurts: Finding Meaning in Suffering for Heart, Mind and Soul and how you can use theology, psychology and spiritual formation to teach you how to redeem that suffering in relationship with God and others. Ultimately, it can lead you closer to Jesus on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Matthew and Ted's conversation with Dr. Ed Stetzer explores the meaning and history of missio Dei (the idea that mission originates from God, not the church). He traces how missions thinking has shifted over the past century, from “the Church has missions” to “God's mission has the Church,” and highlights both the biblical strength and the theological risks of that shift. While affirming that God is actively at work in the world and invites His people to join Him, the discussion emphasizes that mission must remain grounded in Scripture, with the church playing a central role in proclaiming the gospel.The episode also addresses a growing tension in evangelical missions today: the pull between a broad, holistic view of mission and the need to prioritize evangelism and reaching unreached people groups. Stetzer warns that when everything is labeled “mission,” the urgency of gospel proclamation can fade. The conversation calls for a balanced approach-one that embraces both gospel demonstration and proclamation, while ensuring that the church does not lose focus on its core calling to make disciples among the nations. The Mission Matters Podcast is a place to talk about the importance of our Mission as Christians. The Mission Matters is a partnership of Missio Nexus and Sixteen:Fifteen, who have a shared passion to mobilize God's people to be a part of His mission.

Jesus didn't come to find perfect people. Instead, He came to find those hungry for His presence and willing to be transformed into His image. But we often fall into the trap of thinking that as believers, our lives should be free of spiritual failure. Ed Stetzer talks with Matt Chandler about his book, Becoming Like Jesus: The Everyday Journey to Living a Life of Holiness and how the Holy Spirit uses our ups and downs to shape us into who God designed us to be on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What if the Bible isn't a collection of disconnected stories—but one unified story that you're already part of?In Week 1 of Find Your Place in God's Mission, Chris Nichols introduces a conversation with Ed Stetzer and Ted Coniaris that explores the central storyline of Scripture: God's mission to redeem and restore all creation.Through Luke 24 and the story of the road to Emmaus, we see how Jesus helped His followers rediscover where they stood in that story—and why it changed everything.This message speaks to anyone who has ever felt: Disconnected from purpose  Stuck in the routine of everyday life  Unsure where they fit in God's plan Rather than calling us to find a new story, Jesus invites us to remember the one we're already in.Key Scripture: Luke 24:25–27, 44–48, 32 Big Idea: God's mission is the story of the Bible—and our purpose is to join Him in it.Featuring insights from Ed Stetzer, this episode helps frame the entire biblical narrative—Creation, Fall, Redemption, and Restoration—and invites you to find your place within it.

Scripture calls Christians toward obedience and maturity, but many modern approaches to spiritual formation are less than biblical. Ed Stetzer talks with Phoenix Seminary's Matthew Bingham about his book, A Heart Aflame for God: A Reformed Approach to Spiritual Formation and how we can use meditation, prayer and self-examination to balance our faith and salvation, with a responsibility for our spiritual growth. By doing this, we can cultivate a closer relationship with God on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We're told in James 1:2 to consider our trials as “pure joy”, but how do we find joy in the midst of trouble? Ed Stetzer talks with Grant Flynn about his book, Lament in the Letter of James and the issue of lament found tucked away in the book of James... and how the ongoing cycle of lament and joy reflects the pain of human suffering and the hope we have in Christ on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sometimes we feel our lives have been turned upside down, that there's no way to put the pieces of our life back together. But God can use even the most broken circumstances to bring about His perfect plan. Ed Stetzer talks with Anne Graham Lotz and Rachel-Ruth Lotz Wright about their book, God Won't Leave You There, the story of Joseph, and the dramatic trials he went through that would ultimately lead to God's purpose for his life. Joseph's story serves as hope for all of us, knowing that God is trustworthy, and will always be with you on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

God―the source of every good and perfect gift―offers abundant promises in Scripture. But sometimes, studying his word can feel more difficult than rewarding. Author Uche Anizor shares with Ed Stetzer a series of accessible meditations he's written about in his book, The Goodness of God in the Gift of Scripture: 20 Meditations, that help believers see the Bible as an extension of God’s mercy and love, and the blessing that it is on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Proverbs 31:8 challenges God's people to 'Open your mouth for those with no voice, for the cause of all the dispossessed.' The Kingdom will be filled with people and voices from cultures that span the world. Ed Stetzer talks with Usha Reifsnider about her book, Unmuted: Speaking to be Heard and her use of 'muted group therapy' to help church leaders and theologians understand the real challenges of identity, intersectionality, and the myriad ways of being human in God's world on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In today’s science-driven, rational world, belief is dismissed as an artefact of a bygone era. But as life grows ever more confusing, contemplating something bigger than ourselves has never been more vital. Ed Stetzer talks with Alister McGrath about his book, Why we Believe and how belief in God provides meaning in the face of existential despair, how it fosters community and offers solace on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There is power in learning the faith heritage of believers. It helps us respond to the gospel's call to live with grace and purpose. Ed Stetzer talks with Bryan Loritts about his book, Grace to Overcome: 31 Devotions on God's Work through Black History and his personal spiritual and historical journey through Black history and its links to the profound narratives of the Bible that has helped shape his faith and can help us shape ours on Ed Stetzer Live.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The cultural moment we're in isn't just tense — it's a full convulsion, and it's landing in your church every Sunday. In this emergency panel episode, Ed Stetzer, Adam Mesa, and Sharon Hodde Miller debate when to speak up, when to be silent, how to deal with fallout, and how to pastor people in a deeply divided age. This is the conversation many pastors are desperate to have but afraid to start.

Whether its politics, religion, or culture, or the more everyday issues of normal life, it feels like people's opinions are becoming more polarized than ever. Often we enter disagreements feeling that we have to win or we avoid them altogether. Ed Stetzer talks with Gavin Ortlund about his book, The Art of Disagreeing: How to Keep Calm and Stay Friends in Hard Conversations and Jesus’ example of courage and kindness, that can give us a framework for engaging in intense disagreements with a love that furthers instead of hinders relationships on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ed Stetzer preaches a message from Peter4:10-11 about managing your talents.

It's Valentine's Day weekend and we're talking love, relationships and marriage. Ed Stetzer talks with Biola's Chris Grace and Alisa Grace about what you can do to grow your relationship and the work they do at the Biola Center for Marriage and Relationships that can help you build healthy marriages and relationships that reflect Christ's love for the church on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Anchor Passage: (John 17:20-23, Ephesians 4:1-6, Mark 9:38-40)Jesus prayed that Christians would be “one,” yet there are thousands of Christian denominations worldwide. What happened? Join us as we look at the history of the Church and discover how what unites followers of Jesus is greater than what divides!

This week, Eric and Scholar-in-Residence Ed Stetzer discuss the differences between denominations and how God is moving through His Church around the world.Ed Stetzer, Ph.D., is the Dean and Professor of Leadership and Christian Ministry at Talbot School of Theology at Biola University. Ed has planted, revitalized, and pastored churches; trained pastors and church planters on six continents; earned two master's degrees and two doctorates; and he has written hundreds of articles and a dozen books. He serves at Mariners Church as a Scholar-in-Residence & Teaching Pastor."Can Faithful Christians Agree to Disagree on Sexuality?" by Ed Stetzer: https://churchleaders.com/voices/512232-agree-to-disagree-christian-sexuality-gender.html

One thing is certain in this life: We will all experience hardship and pain. But with God as our caring Father, we can also be certain that our pain presents opportunities to shape us for a glory beyond imagination. Ed Stetzer talks with Clay Jones about his book, How Does God Use Suffering for Our Good? and how when we learn why God allows suffering, our pain is given meaning, and that can help us live with purpose and hope even as we suffer today on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In ancient times, people of faith knew scripture by heart. But today, for many of us, it can seem almost impossible to memorize bible verses. Ed Stetzer talks with Kenneth Berding about his book, The Bible by Heart: The Bible's Own Method for Scripture Memory and habits you can develop to internalize entire passages of scripture, the same way people did in Bible times. In learning how to give God's word a permanent place in your life, you'll be able to draw upon its wisdom whenever you need it on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A recent Gallup Poll found that about half of Americans say religion is not an important part of their daily life. But other surveys show a surge in Christianity, particularly among younger generations like Millennials and Gen Z. Ed Stetzer talks with Christianity Today President and CEO Dr. Nicole Martin about her book, Nailing It: Why Successful Leadership Demands Suffering and Surrender and what we can glean to encourage us as we share our faith in our communities on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Have you ever considered building your family the way God builds his? Adoption is not only a response to the needs of children who don’t have a family, but also a profound picture of God’s love for all the children he has adopted into his family. Ed Stetzer talks with Andrew Hopper about his book, Chosen: Building Your Family the Way God Builds His and the adoption of believers as children of God and links that to the privilege of adopting and fostering children into their own families on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For so many people leading the church today, the first seeds of their faith were planted in the Jesus People Movement. Ed Stetzer talks with Andrew MacDonald and Larry Eskridge about how the Jesus People Movement impacted their ministry. He'll also talk about how we can know what God's call is for us on our own lives on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

John Bunyan's The Pilgrim's Progress is widely regarded as one of the most significant works of Protestant literature. It's been translated into over 200 languages and was once only second to the Bible in popularity. Ed Stetzer talks with Andy Draycott about his book, Into the Pilgrimverse, that has transformed this 17th century classic into a modern-day journey delving into issues like biblical fidelity, missions, gender, race and sexuality in this spiritual classic on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For skeptics and unbelievers, the idea that the Christian Church has an "image problem" doesn't quite capture it. For defenders of the faith, it's important to be able to recognize the good and bad in the church's history and be inspired to live aligned with Christ. Ed Stetzer talks with John Dickson about his book, Bullies and Saints: An Honest Look at the Good and Evil of Christian History and the challenges facing Christians today in a world that sometimes disregards God. They'll talk about the trials and the hope for the church on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here. Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Who are we when we are stripped down to our very essence? How do we not only survive but find joy and peace in a world that is full of suffering and disappointment? Ed Stetzer talks with World-renowned psychologist and leadership expert Dr. Henry Cloud about his devotional, To Know Him: A 90-Day Invitation to Come to God as You Are on the mystery of the human mind and how it interacts with these existential questions. In exploring these questions we can know that when we seek God, we will be found on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In a season that is busy and bustling, there is a quieter truth that we too often miss in the mayhem. God is in our midst. God is with us. The greatest gift. And the source of all our joy. Ed Stetzer talks with Sheila Walsh about her new book, The Little Drummer Girl and ways you can reactivate your wonder and find grace, peace and hope in this Christmas season on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In a season that is busy and bustling, there is a quieter truth that we too often miss in the mayhem. God is in our midst. God is with us. The greatest gift. And the source of all our joy. Ed Stetzer talks with Sheila Walsh about her new book, The Little Drummer Girl and ways you can reactivate your wonder and find grace, peace and hope in this Christmas season on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In a season that is busy and bustling, there is a quieter truth that we too often miss in the mayhem. God is in our midst. God is with us. The greatest gift. And the source of all our joy. Ed Stetzer talks with Sheila Walsh about her new book, The Little Drummer Girl and ways you can reactivate your wonder and find grace, peace and hope in this Christmas season on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In a season that is busy and bustling, there is a quieter truth that we too often miss in the mayhem. God is in our midst. God is with us. The greatest gift. And the source of all our joy. Ed Stetzer talks with Sheila Walsh about her new book, The Little Drummer Girl and ways you can reactivate your wonder and find grace, peace and hope in this Christmas season on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

After waves of disillusionment, political divides, and church hurt, some people wonder whether it's worth investing in the church. For others, after COVID it's become easier to just watch church online. Ed Stetzer talks with Carmen Joy Imes about her book, Becoming God's Family: Why the Church still Matters and God's presence in the gatherings of believers throughout the Bible. When God's people gather together, God shows up. That's reason enough to reconnect or dig deeper into your church community on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This final episode of Season 6 is the culminating message from this year's CGN International Conference.This year's conference was held at Reliance Church in Temecula, CA - and the theme was: “The Way Forward: Ministry According to Jesus” - in which we studied through the' “Upper-Room Discourse” in John 13-17.The closing message of the conference was taught by Dr. Ed Stetzer, Dean of Talbot School of Theology at Biola University, Regional Director for Lausanne North America, and Editor in Chief of Outreach Magazine.Dr. Stetzer has planted, revitalized, and pastored churches - and he has authored several books on the topic of God's mission and the church today.The text of Ed's message is John 17:18 and 20:21 - and the title is: “The Prayer of Jesus: So I Send You”

C.S. Lewis dedicated his book, The Screwtape Letters, to his friend J.R.R. Tolkien, and Tolkien dedicated his Lord of the Rings to the Inklings, the Oxford literary group they were both a part of. These two literary giants formed a friendship that changed the world, and each other. Ed Stetzer talks with playwright, Dean Batali, whose play, Lewis and Tolkien, explores their friendship and the eternal themes that defined their work: faith, myth, sacrifice, and the power of story on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

C.S. Lewis dedicated his book, The Screwtape Letters, to his friend J.R.R. Tolkien, and Tolkien dedicated his Lord of the Rings to the Inklings, the Oxford literary group they were both a part of. These two literary giants formed a friendship that changed the world, and each other. Ed Stetzer talks with playwright, Dean Batali, whose play, Lewis and Tolkien, explores their friendship and the eternal themes that defined their work: faith, myth, sacrifice, and the power of story on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We all carry wounds from the words and actions of others, but it's important to remember how our Creator sees us. Instead of dwelling on images of our pain, we need to look into a God-centered mirror that reflects the way He sees us. Ed Stetzer talks with JP Foster and Matt Williams about their book, Finding Freedom in Jesus and how learning to see ourselves through our Heavenly Father's eyes, can change everything on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We all carry wounds from the words and actions of others, but it's important to remember how our Creator sees us. Instead of dwelling on images of our pain, we need to look into a God-centered mirror that reflects the way He sees us. Ed Stetzer talks with JP Foster and Matt Williams about their book, Finding Freedom in Jesus and how learning to see ourselves through our Heavenly Father's eyes, can change everything on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Whether we wrestle with anxiety, harmful thoughts about ourselves, or mental spirals that hold us back from spiritual growth and healthy relationships, many of us wish we could control our thoughts.... rather than let them control us. So how do we get out of that cycle? Ed Stetzer talks with Pastor Kyle Idleman about his book, Every Thought Captive and how to identify the patterns that are hurting us and take every thought captive, to embrace the full life God has designed you for on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Whether we wrestle with anxiety, harmful thoughts about ourselves, or mental spirals that hold us back from spiritual growth and healthy relationships, many of us wish we could control our thoughts.... rather than let them control us. So how do we get out of that cycle? Ed Stetzer talks with Pastor Kyle Idleman about his book, Every Thought Captive and how to identify the patterns that are hurting us and take every thought captive, to embrace the full life God has designed you for on Ed Stetzer Live. Ed Stetzer Live is a listener supported program. To donate, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer, click here. To learn more about Ed Stetzer Live, click here.Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/edstetzerliveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The Vision Series: The Remnants Role in God's Mission w/Ed Stetzer

Regular listeners to this podcast, or regular readers of MinistryWatch, know that we have spent a lot of time covering Christian education. The reasons for our coverage are many. Christian colleges are among the largest Christian institutions in the country, taking in billions of dollars each year. Secondly, what happens in Christian colleges and seminaries often directly affects the church. So even if you don't have kids in college now, or ever, your life and your church will be impacted by what is going on at Christian and secular colleges in this country. Thirdly, higher education – including Christian higher education – is in the midst of a tremendous transition. Demographics, technology, and a national conversation happening now about the value of a college education are all causing Christian colleges to face challenges they have never faced before. That's one reason I wanted to talk with Dr. Ed Stetzer. Ed Stetzer is the Dean of Talbot School of Theology at Biola University and Scholar in Residence & Teaching Pastor at Mariners Church. He has planted, revitalized, and pastored churches; trained pastors and church planters on six continents; earned two master's degrees and two doctorates; and he has written hundreds of articles and a dozen books. More to the point for our conversation today, he helps lead one of the few institutions of Christian higher education that is growing.  I wanted to ask him why, and how, that was happening. Thanks for tuning in today to my conversation with Ed Stetzer. In addition to all the things I mentioned about Ed at the top of the program, he is also Regional Director for Lausanne North America, is the Editor-in-Chief of Outreach Magazine, and regularly writes for news outlets such as USA Today and CNN. The producer for today's program is Jeff McIntosh. Until next time, may God bless you.

For decades, the story of religion in America has been the story of decline. A steadily growing share of Americans have been identifying as “nones” – people with no religious affiliation. But a new report from the Pew Research Center shows something surprising. That number of “nones” has plateaued. What could be behind it – and is it a sign of bigger things to come? We’re joined by Greg Smith, senior researcher at Pew Research Center, and Ed Stetzer, theology dean at Biola University, to explore this trend. Thank you to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.