The Covert Narcissism Podcast

When the Child You Protected Believes the NarcissistIt's a betrayal that cuts deeper than most people can understand—when your adult child, the one you protected for years, turns on you and takes the side of the covert narcissist. If you're walking through this devastating experience, you are not alone. I'm opening a small, supportive Zoom coaching group just for parents facing this heartbreak. This group is a safe place to process the grief, confusion, and isolation of being cast as the villain in a story you spent your life protecting them from. We'll meet weekly to work through the pain, understand why this happens, and rebuild your peace, identity, and strength—together. This is your space to feel seen, supported, and empowered.Spots are limited. Learn more and reserve your place at www.covertnarcissism.com DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED.

What if that apology wasn't about you at all?What if the moment that looked like remorse was really a carefully constructed move to restore a fractured image? In this powerful continuation of our series with Dr. Anthony Mazzella from The Narcissism Decoder podcast, we dive beneath the surface of “I'm sorry” to explore what's really going on: the tangled relationship between guilt, shame, narcissism, and the illusion of empathy. We break down a real-life example of a man spiraling in frustration, seemingly finding redemption through kindness — but is it guilt, or is it shame-fueled self-preservation? This episode is essential for anyone trying to make sense of the mixed signals in narcissistic relationships, especially for those raising or supporting adult children who are still struggling with internalized shame from growing up in a narcissistic home. We explore: The difference between authentic guilt and toxic shame How narcissistic defenses hijack true connection Why timing matters in therapy and healing How to recognize image repair masquerading as empathy Why curiosity — not judgment — is the key to growth Whether you've lived with a covert narcissist, parented with one, or are watching your adult child unravel years of emotional confusion, this episode offers clarity and direction.

Baiting is one of the most maddening—and most misunderstood—tactics used by covert narcissists. It's the emotional equivalent of poking you with a stick just to watch you react, then sitting back and saying, “Wow… look how angry you are.” In this episode, we unpack exactly how covert narcissists bait you into emotional reactions—and why they benefit from pushing your buttons. From passive-aggressive digs and guilt trips to carefully crafted public humiliation, we break down the subtle ways they set you up to explode while they keep their mask perfectly intact. You'll hear: Real-life examples of narcissistic baiting Why they want you to react (and what they gain from it) Sarcastic comebacks you'll want to say—but probably shouldn't Tools for staying grounded, using the Gray Rock method, and protecting your peace If you've ever walked away from a conversation thinking, “How did I just become the bad guy again?”—this episode is for you.

Part two of a 4 part series on Guilt and Shame with guest, Dr. Anthony Mazzella, Psychotherapist & Host of The Narcissism Decoder Podcast What if the guilt you carry… isn't actually guilt at all? In Part Two of this powerful conversation, Renee and Dr. Anthony Mazzella dive into the subtle but life-changing difference between guilt and shame—and why confusing the two can keep you stuck in cycles of self-blame, anxiety, and emotional paralysis. You'll learn: Why guilt is actually a sign of emotional health—and a driver of change How shame stunts growth while guilt motivates repair The difference between healthy guilt, toxic guilt, and emotional manipulation Why narcissists often fake guilt through apology—but never actually change How to recognize when you're feeling shame, not guilt, and what to do about it The role of empathy, boundaries, and emotional development in healing Why we must give our pain words—and why shame so often lives unnamed If you've ever said, “I feel so guilty…” but couldn't put your finger on why—or felt weighed down by an apology you can't stop making—this episode is for you. This is the emotional fork in the road: one path leads to healing. The other keeps you stuck in someone else's story.

With a covert narcissist, the outcome is always the same: you're the problem. No matter how gently you speak, how carefully you tread, or how hard you try—somehow, it always comes back to you. That's not bad communication. That's emotional abuse wrapped in manipulation, guilt, and gaslighting. In this episode, we walk through a choose-your-own-adventure version of life with a covert narcissist—where every decision leads to blame, confusion, or emotional fallout. Whether it's handling a parenting issue, grabbing lunch with a friend, or simply protecting your child's mental health, you're forced into impossible choices with no right answers. You'll hear: Why life with a covert narcissist feels like a rigged game The emotional toll of always being the villain in their story The healthy option you never get—and why that's the deepest grief How to begin choosing yourself even when every road feels unsafe If you've been stuck in a cycle of trying harder, only to end up blamed again—you need this episode. It's not you. It was never you. And it's time to stop carrying the weight of someone else's dysfunction.

Part one of a 4 part series on Guilt and Shame with guest, Dr. Anthony Mazzella, Psychotherapist & Host of The Narcissism Decoder Podcast What if the root of so much emotional pain, self-sabotage, and confusion isn't who you are—but what you've carried? In this powerful first episode of a two-part series, Renee is joined by Dr. Anthony Mazzella to explore how shame, not arrogance or ego, often sits at the center of narcissistic traits—both in ourselves and in the people who have hurt us. Together, they unpack: What shame really is—and how it's different from guilt How shame starts in early childhood through misattunement, rejection, or humiliation The invisible ways shame shapes identity, emotions, and behavior How narcissistic defenses like projection, withdrawal, and perfectionism are fueled by shame Why people-pleasing is often a mask for hidden shame How religious, cultural, or family systems can unknowingly create shame-based beliefs Shame isn't just an emotion—it becomes a lens through which we see ourselves and the world. It's not something we feel—it's something we become. And unless we learn how to name it, it quietly dictates how we love, hide, lash out, or shut down. Whether you've lived with a covert narcissist or find yourself stuck in patterns you don't fully understand, this episode will help you name the invisible wound behind it all—and take the first step toward healing.

Leaving a covert narcissist isn't a single event—it's a process.In this episode, we break down the myth of the dramatic midnight escape and explore the emotional, psychological, and logistical realities that make leaving so complex. If you've ever asked yourself, “Why didn't I leave sooner?” or been judged by others for how long it's taken to get out, this conversation is for you. We'll talk about the mental rewiring survivors must do, the fear of not being believed, the self-doubt that comes from years of gaslighting, and the real-life obstacles—like finances, kids, and safety—that make a clean break nearly impossible. This episode is a reminder: leaving doesn't start with a suitcase—it starts with truth. And every quiet step you take toward reclaiming your mind, your freedom, and your self-worth… counts.

Why do so many people stay in relationships with covert narcissists for years—sometimes decades? This episode is a raw, honest, and deeply validating exploration of the emotional tug-of-war that keeps survivors stuck in toxic dynamics. I open up about my own 20+ year marriage to a covert narcissist—why I stayed, why I didn't see it sooner, and why that doesn't mean there was something wrong with me. Because covert narcissists are masters at being “just enough.” Just enough good to make you stay. Just enough bad to make you question everything. Just enough charm to keep others fooled. Just enough cruelty to break you behind closed doors. Their entire strategy is built on almosts—on the hope that maybe, just maybe, this time it will be different. If you've ever asked yourself, “Why didn't I leave?” or “Why didn't I see it sooner?”—this episode is for you. You are not alone. You are not crazy. You are not weak. You were trauma bonded to someone who knew exactly how to keep you stuck.

When you're in a relationship with a covert narcissist, peace is often a performance—maintained at the expense of your own emotional well-being. This episode of The Covert Narcissism Podcast explores how covert narcissists condition those around them to bend, sacrifice, and stay silent just to avoid upsetting them. From partners who tell their kids “just do what your dad wants” to adult children asked to adjust their lives to keep the narcissistic parent happy, this episode exposes the high cost of maintaining “peace” in a toxic dynamic. We'll dive into real-life examples of how covert narcissists weaponize their moods to manipulate and control, how families get pulled into the dance of appeasement, and how to begin breaking this generational cycle. If you've ever felt responsible for someone else's happiness—or guilty for standing your ground—this episode is for you.

You left. You blocked them. You did everything you were “supposed” to do to break free from the covert narcissist in your life.But somehow… they're still there.In your thoughts.In your inner dialogue.In the way you second-guess yourself when no one's even around. In this episode, we explore why covert narcissists continue to live “rent free” in your head long after the relationship ends — and how emotional abuse rewires your brain, leaving behind patterns of self-doubt, hypervigilance, and internalized gaslighting. You'll learn: Why “leaving” doesn't always mean freedom How trauma bonds keep you psychologically hooked What it looks like when their voice becomes your inner critic How to begin reclaiming your mental space and evict the intruder for good What to do if you're still in the relationship but want to begin your mental and emotional freedom now Whether you've left or are still trying to plan your exit, this episode offers practical steps and deep validation for anyone struggling to find peace after covert narcissistic abuse. And in honor of Independence Day, we talk about what real freedom looks like — the kind you fight for inside your own mind.

What happens when you finally speak the truth to a covert narcissist? Whether you're pointing out a small forgotten chore or confronting them about a huge betrayal, the emotional fallout can feel overwhelming and confusing. In this episode, we're diving deep into the two most common narcissistic reactions to being called out: the emotional implosion of shame and the defensive explosion of blame. Learn why narcissists either spiral into shame-filled self-pity or launch into rage and blame-shifting—and why both reactions are designed to avoid accountability. We'll explore: The difference between a narcissistic implosion vs. explosion Real-life examples of how each reaction looks and feels Why these reactions derail the original conversation How to protect your peace when you're caught in this emotional storm If you've ever found yourself comforting the person who hurt you… or defending yourself against an emotional attack after calling out their behavior… this episode is for you. Narcissist reaction to being called out, narcissistic collapse, narcissistic rage, covert narcissism, emotional abuse, narcissistic defense mechanisms, how narcissists react to confrontation, narcissistic accountability avoidance

When the yelling stops, the lies fade, and the manipulative games come to a halt… does it mean they are getting better? In this episode, we explore the confusing and disorienting experience of living with someone who has changed their behaviors, but hasn't done the real emotional work underneath. Drawing a parallel with the concept of a "dry drunk," we'll unpack why behavior management without inner healing leaves survivors of covert narcissistic abuse still feeling unsafe, unseen, and emotionally alone. We'll dive into: What a “dry drunk” actually is The emotional wounds that fuel both addiction and narcissistic behaviors Why things sometimes feel worse after the behavior stops The difference between true healing and surface-level change How to trust your gut when something still feels off If you've ever found yourself thinking, “I should be happy… but I'm not”—this episode is for you.

Empathy — we all think we know what it means, until we're in a relationship where it's missing. Covert narcissists are often skilled at sounding emotionally intelligent. They can say the right words, mirror emotional language, and even cry on cue — but something still feels off. That's because what they offer isn't real empathy; it's a performance. In this episode, we explore the difference between true empathy and intellectual mimicry, revealing how covert narcissists can talk the talk while leaving you emotionally starved. You'll hear real-life examples of how this plays out, how it erodes your sense of self, and why it's not your fault that their words never seem to reach your heart. If you've ever asked, “Why do I still feel so alone when I'm not alone?” — this episode is for you.

Are they a covert narcissist or an alcoholic? What if the alcohol goes away? Does this get better? In this candid and thought-provoking conversation, I sit down with Todd Rennebohm, host of Bunny Hugs and Mental Health, to explore the complex intersection of addiction, trauma, emotional dysregulation, and misunderstood behaviors. Todd opens up about his lived experience with substance abuse, undiagnosed ADHD, and the journey from survival mode to genuine healing. Together, we unpack the blurry line between narcissistic traits and trauma responses—especially when addiction or mental health challenges are at play. We talk about emotional regulation, humility, personal growth, and the powerful difference between true narcissism and wounded coping strategies. Whether you're trying to understand a loved one, your partner, or even yourself… this episode offers clarity, compassion, and hope.

You planned everything perfectly — the dinner, the outfit, the guest list.But somehow, your birthday still ended in silence. Or tears. Or walking on eggshells. If you've ever felt like your special moments were stolen — you're not alone.In this episode, we explore why covert narcissists sabotage holidays, birthdays, anniversaries, and even simple family gatherings. We'll dive into the hidden motives behind their emotional sabotage, including control, envy, and resentment — and how their behavior leaves survivors dreading the very days that were meant to be joyful. You'll hear real-life examples, psychological insights, and healing strategies — including a powerful tradition we hold at my annual retreat to reclaim the holidays that were taken from us.

We all live on the "main floor" of our emotional house—handling relationships, responsibilities, and day-to-day life. But when things break down, the real answers are often hidden in the basement: our childhood. In this episode, I unpack how unresolved childhood trauma silently shapes the way we love, react, and connect as adults. You'll learn why survival responses like people-pleasing, emotional numbing, and fear of closeness aren't signs of weakness—they're signs of old wiring that needs your attention. If you've ever wondered why healthy love feels so hard, it's time to take a look downstairs.

How do you raise emotionally grounded, self-aware children when you're navigating the chaos and confusion of covert narcissistic abuse — or healing from it yourself? In this powerful episode, we explore what it means to parent with intention, clarity, and compassion in the aftermath of narcissistic harm. Whether you're co-parenting with a narcissist, raising children who were exposed to emotional manipulation, or trying to unlearn toxic patterns from your own childhood, this episode is for you. We cover: Why your awareness is already part of the healing How to model emotional safety — not perfection What to do when you see narcissistic behaviors in your child How to undo the messaging they've absorbed from the narcissistic parent And how your imperfect, intentional presence can shift your child's relational blueprint Because you don't have to be perfect — just present, honest, and willing to grow.

Are narcissists born or made? In this foundational episode, we unpack the complex roots of narcissism through the lens of both nature and nurture. We explore how temperament, early childhood environment, and relational trauma interact to shape narcissistic behaviors — and why it's not always a direct path. You'll learn: How biological traits like sensitivity or the need for validation can become liabilities in emotionally unsafe environments Why narcissism is often a learned survival strategy — and not always from overtly abusive parenting That not everyone raised in a narcissistic home becomes a narcissist — and some narcissists weren't raised by narcissists at all How to understand the difference between narcissistic traits and full-blown personality disorder Why the origins of someone's narcissism don't excuse the harm they cause — and what that means for your healing Whether you're still in the relationship or long out, this episode offers clarity, validation, and direction. Because you don't have to figure this out alone. And understanding the “why” helps you stop taking on the impossible task of fixing it.

Why is it so hard to leave — even when you know the relationship is toxic? In this powerful episode, we expose the hidden truth behind trauma bonding with a covert narcissist. It's not just emotional confusion — it's chemical addiction. You're not addicted to the person; you're addicted to the highs, the relief, the dopamine rush that follows emotional chaos. And while you're chasing connection, they're chasing something else entirely: your Fix-It Mode. We'll break down the neuroscience of trauma bonding, explore why your empathy is being exploited, and uncover why the narcissist needs to keep collapsing — just to keep you engaged. This isn't love. It's survival mode. If you've ever felt trapped in the cycle of emotional whiplash — adored one moment, blamed the next — this episode will help you see the pattern for what it is… and finally begin to break free.

If you've been bending over backwards trying to fix a relationship that keeps breaking you… this episode is for you. Today, I'm sharing a personal story about the moment I was asked a question that stopped me in my tracks: “Can you honestly say you've done everything you know to do?” That one question made me face the truth — not about the relationship, but about how much of myself I had been pouring into something that couldn't be repaired by effort alone. In this episode, we explore: Why survivors of covert narcissistic abuse try so hard to fix what isn't fixable How over-functioning keeps us stuck in one-sided emotional labor What “giving it your all” really means — and what it doesn't The illusion of the “one right book, podcast, or article” that will finally make them change The moment you realize you've done enough — even if they never did How to stop proving your pain and start honoring your healing You don't have to wait until you're completely broken to say, “That's enough.”You're allowed to stop trying when your trying is costing you your peace, your clarity, and your self-worth.

If you find yourself dreading the weekend and breathing easier on Monday mornings, you might be living in the upside-down world of covert narcissistic abuse. In this powerful episode, we explore what it's like to live with a covert narcissist whose presence turns weekends into emotional minefields. While others relax and recharge, you're managing moods, walking on eggshells, and just trying to make it through. We'll walk through the emotional rhythm of the week — from the sweet relief of Monday morning to the quiet panic of Friday afternoons — and explain why this backwards cycle is not only real, but a key sign of emotional abuse. You'll also learn a simple but transformative mindset tool I teach my clients called “popcorn moments” — a way to regain your sanity by observing the chaos instead of getting pulled into it.

Are they a covert narcissist—or are they just being a jerk?That's one of the most common (and most confusing) questions I hear from clients and listeners. In this episode of the Covert Narcissism Podcast, we break down real-life examples of those cutting, guilt-laced, or backhanded comments that leave you wondering: Was that emotional abuse, passive-aggressive manipulation, or just a bad moment? From relationship red flags like “Must be nice to have that kind of freedom”, to parental guilt trips like “After all I've done for you…”, we'll look at how to spot the signs of covert narcissism versus everyday jerk behavior. You'll learn how to recognize emotional invalidation, gaslighting, guilt trips, and passive-aggressive abuse—and how to tell when it's a manipulative pattern instead of a one-off mistake.If you've been left second-guessing your reality, feeling invisible or emotionally punished, this episode will help you find clarity.

Ever walk away from a conversation feeling more confused than when you started—like somehow, even though you were calm, kind, and clear, you're the one apologizing again? Welcome to the maddening world of circular conversations with a covert narcissist. In this episode, we dive into the logic-defying, soul-draining dynamics that keep you stuck in emotional loops—where nothing gets resolved, the goalposts always move, and your reality is constantly twisted. Before you even had the words “covert narcissism,” you probably felt it: the confusion, the guilt, the slow erasure of your clarity and confidence. You'll hear a dramatized conversation that shows how these patterns unfold, how covert narcissists derail resolution, and what gaslighting really sounds like behind closed doors. More importantly, we'll explore how to step out of the spiral—with grounded examples, boundary-setting phrases, and reminders that you're not crazy. You're being manipulated. If you're tired of talking in circles and ready to reclaim your peace, this one's for you.

In this episode of the Covert Narcissism Podcast, we take a much-needed breath of fresh air—literally and emotionally. If I weren't talking about covert narcissism every week, I'd be out in the woods learning survival skills: building fires, navigating with moss, and figuring out which berries won't kill me. Why? Because sometimes, healing from covert narcissistic abuse means taking a step back to reconnect with who you are outside the trauma. This episode is your invitation to pause the obsessive thoughts about the covert narcissist, stop decoding emotional abuse for just a moment, and remember what it feels like to simply be you. We'll explore: Why it's essential to take breaks during narcissistic abuse recovery How constantly thinking about narcissism can keep you stuck What stepping back does for your nervous system, your identity, and your healing A fun peek into what I'd be doing if I weren't talking about emotional abuse every week Whether you're deep in recovery or just beginning to recognize the signs of covert narcissism, this episode is a gentle reminder: you're allowed to breathe, laugh, explore, and live.

What if the guilt you've been carrying… isn't guilt at all? In this episode of the Covert Narcissism Podcast, we peel back the layers of false guilt—those heavy, painful feelings that whisper “you're the problem” anytime someone else is upset. Renee walks through a real-life example of emotional coercion in a relationship with a covert narcissist, showing how guilt is often a disguise for fear, shame, and manipulated responsibility.You'll learn how to recognize the difference between true guilt and emotional control, how to reframe the heartbreak we mistakenly label as wrongdoing, and why survivors of covert abuse so often confuse love with self-erasure.If you've ever canceled your joy, dimmed your light, or questioned your own goodness just to avoid someone's disapproval—this episode is for you.

What if you said yes — but didn't feel free to say no? In this powerful and necessary episode, we're confronting the hidden reality of sexual coercion and assault within marriage, especially when the partner is a covert narcissist. From guilt-laced manipulation to emotional punishment and silent withdrawal, we explore how control can show up quietly — and why consent isn't real if it's not freely given. You'll hear real-life examples, common tactics used to override your “no,” and clear steps to help you name the abuse and reclaim your voice. Whether sex was forced, guilted, or withheld to hurt you — your experience matters. Your “no” still matters. If you've ever asked, “Was that really assault?” — this episode is for you.

Welcome to Part Two of Things My Therapist Said That Deserve to Be on T-Shirts. We're continuing the conversation with five more transformative truths that cut through confusion, emotional manipulation, and internalized blame—especially for anyone navigating covert narcissistic abuse. These one-liners don't just help you name what's been happening—they help you stop second-guessing yourself and start reclaiming your peace. Whether you're living with a covert narcissist, healing after a painful breakup, or just trying to trust your gut again, this episode is packed with insight, validation, and practical trauma recovery tools. In this episode, we'll unpack: “If they only treat you well when you're useful, it's not kindness. It's convenience.” — identifying narcissistic behavior masked as affection “Of course you're exhausted. You're carrying emotional loads that aren't yours.” — the invisible weight of narcissistic abuse “Peace isn't boring. You're just addicted to chaos.” — learning to tolerate emotional safety again “Gaslighting isn't an argument. It's a control tactic.” — naming the real dynamic of covert narcissistic manipulation “Your gut knew before your brain was ready.” — reconnecting with your intuition after emotional abuse Each segment is a reminder that you're not overreacting—you're responding to a situation that was never safe to begin with. Your gut instinct was right. Your feelings are valid. And your healing doesn't need their permission.

Sometimes the biggest breakthroughs in healing from covert narcissistic abuse come from just one sentence—something so simple, so true, it rewires your entire nervous system. In this part one episode, I'm sharing five powerful one-liners my therapist said that helped me finally recognize the emotional abuse I had been living through—and start the real work of healing. We talk about what it means to stop apologizing for your emotions, how guilt isn't a moral compass, and why setting boundaries with a covert narcissist often feels like you're doing something wrong (spoiler: you're not). If you've been walking on eggshells, second-guessing your every move, or struggling to trust yourself, this episode will speak directly to your experience. Inside Part One, we'll explore: “You're not crazy. You're just traumatized.” — how gaslighting in relationships makes you doubt your reality “It's not your job to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.” — the trap of self-abandonment in toxic relationships “Feeling guilty doesn't mean you're doing something wrong.” — how manipulated guilt keeps you stuck “You can love someone and still walk away.” — choosing emotional freedom over fantasy “The apology you're waiting for probably isn't coming. Heal anyway.” — reclaiming closure on your own terms These are more than just quotes. They're turning points. Because sometimes, all it takes is one honest phrase to start unraveling years of confusion and pain. Subscribe so you don't miss part two!

Covert narcissism sends you spinning into cognitive dissonance circles! But your brain and your gut were never supposed to be enemies. They're both trying to protect you—just in different ways. Healing begins when they stop arguing and start working together, guiding you out of the confusion and back into clarity. Key Takeaways: Covert abuse hijacks your logic and intuition. Your gut has always known the truth—you just needed your brain to stop making excuses. Healing starts when you trust yourself enough to stop gaslighting your own feelings. If you've ever felt torn between what your brain tells you and what your gut knows deep down, this episode is for you.

In this part two conversation, Renee Swanson and Jerry Wise delve into the complexities of covert narcissism, exploring the impact of guilt in relationships with narcissistic individuals. They discuss the importance of self-focus and reframing one's internal environment to foster healing and personal growth. The dialogue emphasizes that it is never too late to reclaim oneself and that closure comes from within, not from external validation. Takeaways Guilt often stems from family dynamics, especially with narcissistic parents. It's crucial to distinguish between true guilt and family guilt. Reclaiming oneself is possible at any age. The closure we seek comes from within, not from others. Self-focus is essential for healing from narcissistic relationships. Understanding the systems dynamics can help in recognizing unhealthy patterns. It's important to accept where you are in your healing journey. You don't need the approval of dysfunctional family members to change. Reframing our thoughts can create a healthier internal environment. Humor can be a coping mechanism for dealing with narcissistic abuse.

In this part one of two conversation, Renee Swanson and Jerry Wise delve into the complexities of narcissism and the concept of self-differentiation. Jerry shares his extensive experience in family systems therapy and explains how self-differentiation allows individuals to grow into their true selves without absorbing the toxicity of others. They discuss the loss of self often experienced by those raised in narcissistic families, the internal messages that keep individuals stuck, and the distinctions between healthy and unhealthy guilt and shame. The conversation emphasizes the importance of personal growth and healing in overcoming the effects of narcissism. Takeaways Self-differentiation is crucial for personal growth. Narcissistic families often hinder the development of a true self. Healing involves getting rid of family programming. Shame and guilt can be healthy or unhealthy. It's important to separate true feelings from system feelings. You can maintain relationships with narcissistic individuals by understanding your own identity. Self-love is essential for healing. Many feelings of unworthiness stem from family dysfunction. Understanding the difference between guilt types is vital for emotional health. You are not responsible for the programming you received from your family.

What happens when the fairy tale was never a fairy tale to begin with? In this powerful episode, Renee Swanson is joined by Andrea, the candid and courageous voice behind the hit podcast How Not to Suck at Divorce. Andrea doesn't just share her story—she lays it all out. The red flags she ignored. The justifications she clung to. The slow unraveling of her identity. The physical collapse that finally forced her to confront the truth. Together, Renee and Andrea dive deep into: The invisible trauma of covert emotional abuse How your childhood shapes the dysfunction you tolerate The cost of trying to “make it work” while losing yourself Why the hardest part isn't leaving—it's everything that comes after The importance of creating a plan... and what happens when it all falls apart Andrea's brutal honesty, dark humor, and heartfelt wisdom remind us that healing starts with bravery—and that no matter how broken you feel, there is a way through.

In this episode, we're diving into the conversations I wish I could have had with the covert narcissist in my life. The words I rehearsed but never said. The truths I buried for the sake of “keeping the peace.” The sarcasm I bit back. The boundaries I swallowed. All of it. Because sometimes, the only way to make sense of the madness that is covert narcissistic abuse is to talk it out—even if it's only in your own head. We're pulling back the curtain on: The emotional minefield of everyday life with a covert narcissist The way gaslighting turns simple moments into emotional warfare The mental gymnastics of the “circular conversation” The rage that gets disguised as “just a rough day” The slow erosion of your voice when you're always managing their emotions You'll hear my real thoughts—the ones I kept silent because saying them out loud would've meant inviting more chaos, more blame, more confusion. But here? We say them. We say them all. This isn't just about venting. It's about reclaiming the space to name what happened, to validate the version of reality you know you experienced, and to remind you that you're not crazy. You're not too sensitive. You're not imagining it. You're waking up. So grab your tea, your journal, or just a quiet moment in your car, and let's process together. Because your voice matters. Even if it's shaking. Even if it's only just starting to come back. ✨ Leave this episode knowing: You don't have to keep tapdancing around someone else's dysfunction to be worthy of love, safety, or peace. You get to stop shrinking. You get to stop rehearsing. You get to heal. —

At the end of every episode, I say, “I wish you so much peace on your journey of healing.” But today, I want to pause and really talk about what that journey actually looks like—because healing from covert narcissistic abuse isn't what most people think. When I first left, I believed healing meant I'd wake up one day and magically stop hurting. I thought it meant I'd feel strong and peaceful all the time. Instead, I felt confused, angry, exhausted… and sometimes even guilty for walking away. What I didn't know then—but deeply understand now—is that healing isn't a return to who you were before. That version of you doesn't exist anymore. And that's not a tragedy—it's a transformation. Healing is not going back—it's becoming. In this episode, I take you inside the real healing process: the grief, the guilt, the spiral staircase of progress. I unpack what we're actually healing from—the chronic invalidation, emotional starvation, and deep erosion of self-worth that doesn't leave bruises but leaves a lasting impact. You'll hear examples that hit home, like standing in the grocery store frozen by the realization that you don't have to buy his favorite cereal anymore. Or crying in the bathroom because someone raised their voice, and it took you back. You'll also hear what healing becomes: the moment you say no without explaining, the first night you sleep peacefully, the sound of your own laugh returning after years of silence. We'll talk about: Why healing is not linear—and why that's okay What it means to be on the healing path, even when it doesn't feel like it How to recognize those quiet signs that you are making progress Why “being healed” isn't a final destination—it's a way of being And why grieving who you had to be to survive is part of the process too If you've ever asked yourself, “Why can't I just move on already?”—this episode is for you. Because you're not broken. You're healing. And that journey deserves to be seen, honored, and spoken about with truth and tenderness.

In this raw and emotional episode, we're diving deep into one of the most devastating dynamics in families with a covert narcissist: when the parent doing all the emotional labor is unseen, while the other parent gets all the praise. We unpack the covert narcissist's relentless need for supply and scapegoats—and how this manipulative cycle plays out not just with their partner, but with their children. You'll hear the heartbreaking truth of what it feels like to be the steady, loving, rule-setting parent while your kids are pulled toward the fun, charming, and performative parent who barely shows up... until the cameras are on. This episode is for the parents who make the lunches, wipe the tears, stay up worrying, enforce the rules, and still get painted as the “problem.” It's for the ones who feel erased, blamed, and heartbroken. You're not alone—and you're not invisible. Tune in for validation, practical healing tools, and the reminder that your love leaves a lasting mark, even if your children can't see it right now. The truth will rise. To the invisible parent: You are the anchor. You are the lighthouse. And one day, they will know.

I often get asked: •Why did this happen to me? •How did I get here? •How do I prevent it from ever happening again? •How do I heal from this? These are excellent questions and they are very related to each other. Why did this happen to me has a whole lot to do with how do I prevent it from ever happening again. How did I get here is tied closely with how do I heal from this. You need to know about Radical Personal Responsibility - Your special weapon that is unreachable for narcissistic individuals. Taking control of your own internal world is absolutely one of your greatest tools and something that covert narcissists can never do!! I want to explain this tool to you and then teach you how to use it. The first step is to become aware of your autopilot! I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. •Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone? •Are you searching for people who get it? •Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do? •Are you running in circles in your mind? •Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them? •Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism

Not all bruises are visible—and some of the deepest ones live in the hearts of our children. In this powerful episode, we talk about the unseen wounds of emotional abuse, especially when you're parenting alongside a covert narcissist. What happens when the world only believes abuse if they can see it? What happens to the children growing up in that invisible war zone? If you've ever felt dismissed because your scars weren't physical, or if you're watching your children carry emotional weight no child should bear, this episode will speak to your soul. You'll hear validation, truth, and hope for healing—for you and for your kids. This one's for the parent who keeps showing up, even when no one sees how hard it is. You are not alone. And your love is rewriting their story.

What a privilege it is to introduce to you Debbie Mirza! She is best-selling author of the book "The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist," one of the first books I ever read that opened my eyes to the nightmare that I was living. This book is an amazing resource for gaining awareness and understanding of covert narcissism. Her second book "Worthy of Love' presents a gentle and restorative path to healing after narcissistic abuse. Debbie is a beautiful testimony that healing is possible and thriving is obtainable. Debbie has such a gentle and tender heart for survivors of narcissistic abuse. Her gentle spirit and empowering strength are so encouraging and inspiring. She shows us all that it is possible to stand up for and protect yourself and yet maintain that kind and compassionate self that we all desire to be. To learn more about Debbie's work, visit www.debbiemirza.com June 1 is World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day. In honor of that day, for the entire month of June, I am offering all individual sessions with at a discounted rate of $99 per hour. We can meet once or we can meet as many times as you want. If you would like to take advantage of this offer, shoot me an email at renee@cnglifecoaching.com I also want to take a quick moment and remind you that my next round of group sessions is beginning on May 31. I only have a few spots left in these groups. You can choose between Tuesday mornings or Saturday mornings. Each group runs for 6 weeks. We meet for 2 hours on Zoom each week. You receive handouts and worksheets each week. Each group consists of 10 group members, who just like you are struggling through a relationship with a covert narcissist. It is incredibly empowering to work in a group setting where you receive so much validation for the pain, confusion and doubt that you are experiencing. If you want one of these few spots remaining, please do not hesitate to contact me. These groups will fill up.

Have you ever tried to Grey Rock a covert narcissist—only to watch it completely blow up in your face? You stayed neutral, kept your answers short, and avoided reacting… but somehow, things escalated anyway. In this episode, we dive deep into why Grey Rocking often backfires with a covert narcissist, and how to use it in a smarter, safer, and more strategic way. You'll learn how covert narcissists twist neutrality into rejection, how they bait you into reacting, and how to avoid giving them emotional fuel—without triggering more manipulation. We'll break down: Why covert narcissists hate emotional detachment The difference between effective Grey Rocking and silent stonewalling How to use “disguised disengagement” to shut down manipulation When NOT to Grey Rock—and what to do instead If you're trying to break free from covert narcissistic abuse and protect your emotional energy, this episode is for you. Tune in now and learn how to outsmart the manipulation—without losing your peace.

Is a peaceful divorce possible when dealing with a covert narcissist? In this eye-opening episode, I sit down with high-conflict divorce coach Eleanor Marks to unpack the complexities of separation from a covert narcissist. We dive into the concept of radical acceptance—understanding the reality of your situation and adjusting your expectations accordingly. If you're navigating a high-conflict divorce or struggling to co-parent with a covert narcissist, this conversation will provide clarity, validation, and practical steps to regain your power.

Imagine being pushed, prodded, and ignored—until you finally snap. Then suddenly, you're the problem. Sound familiar? In this episode, we're diving deep into reactive abuse—one of the most insidious tactics covert narcissists use to flip the script and make survivors question their reality. I'll share real-life stories—both from childhood and marriage—illustrating how this pattern plays out, how narcissists provoke reactions only to play the victim, and why your reaction does not make you the abuser. If you've ever been told, “Wow, you're the crazy one,” or “You really have anger issues,” after finally standing up for yourself—this episode is for you. Let's dismantle the shame and reclaim your truth. You are not alone. Your reactions don't define you. And you deserve to heal. Subscribe now and don't miss next week's deep dive on the Grey Rock method!   I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone? Are you searching for people who get it? Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do? Are you running in circles in your mind? Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them? Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism #Trauma #abuse #gaslighting #narcissism #narcissist #CovertNarcissism #podcast

In this powerful Part Two of the two-part series with Dr. Anthony Mazzella and Renee Swanson, we shift perspectives. In part one, we discussed the adult child uncovering a covert narcissistic parent, and this is featured on The Narcissism Decoder. Now we shift to the parent who realizes their adult child exhibits covert narcissistic behaviors. Dr. Mazzella, a seasoned psychotherapist and psychoanalyst, brings his expertise in to explore the emotional turmoil, self-doubt, and painful realities parents face when confronted with this harsh truth. Together, we unpack the deep-seated psychological mechanisms that drive covert narcissism, the role of early relationship failures, and how unresolved emotional wounds shape an insatiable need for validation. This episode offers a compassionate yet realistic discussion on:

In this episode, Renee Swanson discusses the challenges of dealing with circular conversations with covert narcissists. She explains how these conversations can trap individuals in a cycle of emotional manipulation and coercive control. Renee provides strategies for disengaging from these conversations, setting boundaries, and reclaiming personal space and power. She emphasizes the importance of recognizing unhealthy relationship dynamics and encourages listeners to seek help and support for their healing journey. Takeaways You deserve to be heard and have space. Covert narcissists use circular conversations to manipulate. Resolution is not the goal for covert narcissists. Stopping a circular conversation requires awareness and boundaries. The gray rock method can backfire with narcissists. Use neutral but not cold responses to avoid escalation. Blocking your exit is a form of coercive control. You have the right to feel safe in your own home. Documenting your experiences can help in seeking support. Use calm times to strategize and find resources. Chapters 00:00 Understanding Circular Conversations with Covert Narcissists 04:12 The Manipulative Nature of Covert Narcissism 10:56 Recognizing Coercive Control and Setting Boundaries 16:19 Taking Action: Documenting and Seeking Help   #CovertNarcissism #EmotionalAbuse #BreakingFree #ToxicRelationships #HealingJourney Keywords   covert narcissism, circular conversations, emotional manipulation, coercive control, relationship advice, self-protection, boundaries, healing, emotional health, narcissistic abuse

What happens when the very dynamics that shaped your childhood follow you into adulthood—into your marriage, friendships, and even your career? In this episode, Mindy shares her eye-opening realization that she married a version of her narcissistic mother and how her upbringing with both a covert narcissistic mom and an abusive father left her trapped in cycles of self-doubt, hypervigilance, and struggle. We'll explore how childhood conditioning makes us perfect targets for love bombing, why receiving even the smallest gift puts us in a tailspin, and how deep-seated beliefs of unworthiness shape our adult relationships. If you've ever wondered What the hell happened to my family?—this episode is for you. I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone? Are you searching for people who get it? Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do? Are you running in circles in your mind? Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them? Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism #Trauma #abuse #gaslighting #narcissism #narcissist #CovertNarcissism #podcast

Have you ever walked away from a conversation feeling drained, confused, or even doubting yourself? Do you feel like every attempt at connection turns into an argument, a guilt trip, or complete silence? You're not alone. Talking to a covert narcissist isn't like talking to anyone else. Simple, everyday questions—What do you want for dinner? How was your day?—can be met with sighs, irritation, or even the silent treatment. And when it comes to deeper conversations, the dynamic becomes even more exhausting. In this episode, we're unpacking why conversations with a covert narcissist feel impossible. From dismissive one-word answers to twisted words and subtle control tactics, we'll break down the communication patterns that leave you feeling unheard, defensive, and emotionally drained. Most importantly, we'll explore what you can do to protect your energy, set boundaries, and reclaim your voice. If you've ever found yourself questioning, Why am I like this only with them?—this episode is for you. I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone? Are you searching for people who get it? Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do? Are you running in circles in your mind? Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them? Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism #Trauma #abuse #gaslighting #narcissism #narcissist #CovertNarcissism #podcast

What happens when a father's love comes with invisible strings? In this episode, I dive into the hidden dynamics of covert narcissistic fathers—the ones who never yell, never hit, but control through silent treatment, guilt, and quiet punishment. If you grew up feeling like your worth was tied to achievements, if you feared disappointing a parent who never truly accepted you, this episode is for you. We'll explore the emotional abuse that comes from covert narcissistic parenting, how their subtle manipulation impacts your sense of self, and the difficult yet necessary journey of breaking free from covert narcissism. This isn't about destroying your relationship with your parent. It is about discovering your relationship with yourself! If you've ever questioned whether your parent's love was unconditional or transactional, this conversation will help you see the truth—and reclaim your own happiness. Your story matters. If this episode resonates, check out my Individual Healing Program at covertnarcissism.com to start your journey toward freedom, self-acceptance, and emotional healing. #CovertNarcissism #CovertNarcissist #CovertNarcissisticAbuse #EmotionalAbuse #HealingFromNarcissisticAbuse #NarcissisticBehavior #Gaslighting #BreakingFreeFromCovertNarcissism

In this eye-opening episode, we dive deep into the painful reality behind “kind” gestures that aren't kind at all. When a homemade cheesecake or a perfectly crafted cup of coffee is offered by someone who's spent years neglecting your needs, it can feel like a calculated move—a manipulation tactic meant to keep you tethered to your old wounds. Through raw storytelling and a “Choose Your Own Adventure” narrative, you'll hear firsthand how these token gestures, far from mending the past, often serve as a reminder of every invalidating moment and boundary crossed. This episode isn't just about the seemingly small acts; it's about reclaiming your power, trusting your gut, and choosing your own path toward healing. If you've ever felt that a sweet gesture was really an insult in disguise, this episode is for you. Listen in for an honest conversation about emotional abuse, the traps of covert narcissism, and the critical steps to rebuild your life on your own terms. Your journey to healing starts here. Take the next step in your healing: If you're ready to break free and reclaim your life, check out my coaching services at www.covertnarcissism.com. You deserve more than crumbs. ❤️

Many of us have been taught to focus on the good—to think about whatever is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, and admirable and to not judge. These are not bad lessons to live by, but do they apply to our spouse in a toxic relationship? Or are we unintentionally ignoring red flags in covert narcissistic abuse? In this episode, we explore:

Have you ever felt like your reality was rewritten right before your eyes? Covert narcissists are experts at controlling the narrative, erasing your perspective, dismissing your feelings, manipulating reality, and shaping how others see you. This is a key tactic in covert narcissistic abuse, leaving victims feeling unheard, invalidated, and questioning their own sanity. In this episode, we break down:

Have you ever tried to figure out someone's true intentions? Have you been suspicious of the intentions behind one's behaviors? Have you ever asked yourself, Yeah but what do they really want? Covert narcissists hide their true intentions. You can feel this when you talk with them. Something just doesn't feel quite right. It doesn't feel genuine. Everything they do and say has a hidden agenda. What is that agenda? What are their true intentions? The true intentions of a covert narcissistic person are: •to rely on others to build them up, to build their self-esteem •to earn compliments and recognition •to gain admiration and the feeling of being important •to confirm that they are better or higher in status than you •to create confusion in others so they can maintain their superior confidence over your obvious inferiority •to win your apologies and continue to boost their superiority •to validate that they are a good person How do we know this? How can you identify it in your own situation? What do you do about it? To join our upcoming group coaching session, reach out to me at renee@covertnarcissism.com or renee@cnglifecoaching.com For more information on the group sessions, visit https://www.covertnarcissism.com/group-session I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. •Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone? •Are you searching for people who get it? •Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do? •Are you running in circles in your mind? •Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them? •Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism

Have you ever felt like you were walking on eggshells, analyzing every glance, every sigh, every subtle shift in body language—just trying to figure out what went wrong this time? Covert narcissists don't always use words to manipulate, dismiss, or control. Sometimes, their most powerful weapon is silence itself. A heavy sigh, an eye roll, a dismissive shrug—these small, seemingly insignificant gestures carry messages that cut deep. And when words and actions don't align, you're left questioning your own reality. In this episode, I share a deeply personal story of how nonverbal communication was used to control, punish, and erode my sense of self—without a single word being spoken. We'll uncover: