XR for Learning

Rob Theriault has recently become Georgian College’s immersive lead, finding ways to employ XR technologies to enhance learning in various courses. He explains how faculties need to become innovation adopters if their students are to do the same. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson, and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. I look forward to bringing you insight into changing the way that we learn and teach using XR technologies to explore, enhance, and individualize learning for everyone. And today, my guest is a good friend from here in Barrie, Ontario, in Canada. Welcome Rob Theriault, an immersive technology lead from Georgian College. Rob has been a part of the paramedics program, and asked just most recently to start taking over a lot more of the technology at the college. Thank you so much for joining me today, Rob. I'd love to get right into it and learn about your story and your position in the college. So thank you so much for being here today. Rob: Hi, Julie. It's a pleasure. Thank you. You want some background? Julie: Yeah, I would love that. Why don't you do a bit of introduction? Rob: Sure. I've been a paramedic for 36 years and teaching paramedics for the last 20. And I've always had a keen interest in educational technology. But I'm also a skeptic when it comes to technology. So I think educators would be wise to be somewhat skeptical and cautious about using technology, ensuring that it actually enhances learning or provides something new to learning. A couple of years ago, I introduced virtual reality into our paramedic program for patient simulation primarily, and that led to a conversation with our president and vice president of academic, who wanted to know where I thought virtual and augmented reality was going. So I told them that I felt that it needed some investment, that it needed some leadership. And surprisingly, they agreed, created a position and set out. So now I'm the immersive technology lead for the college. And my role is to communicate with the faculty, to engage in exploring virtual reality, engage in its potential pedagogy, and to see about integrating virtual or augmented reality into curriculum. Julie: That's amazing, because you're really introducing this technology into multiple different courses. So maybe you can actually talk a little bit about Georgian College's highlighted programs, because I know you and I have talked a lot over the past couple of years of knowing each other, and not every course can be put into these immersive technologies. You still need that one-on-one. So maybe do you want to talk a little bit about Georgian College's programs, and then taking a look at all the programs, which ones could have this technology applied to them and the ones that couldn't? Rob: Yeah, I'm not sure about the ones that couldn't. I'm not convinced of the fact they're any-- that would not be amenable to virtual or augmented reality. But cross that bridge when I come to it. So our architectural technology program has been using virtual reality for the last three years. They were the first at the college. And it's a remarkable experience for students to be able to construct or design buildings from within the building, and have that spatial awareness and be able to test building materials in the process simultaneously. So they were the leaders in that area. And then we introduced it in the paramedic program. And I'm hoping to get funding to continue to use virtual reality in our advanced care paramedic program this fall. We're going to be using a program that involves students resuscitating patients from cardiac arrest and with different abnormal heart rhythms. And the program we're proposing to use employs artificial intelligence and voice recognition.

Olivia Wenzel may be Julie’s youngest guest yet, but her youth hasn’t stopped her from launching a startup — AltruTec — or teaming with Julie on the VRARA’s Parent & Student Resource, or using VR to combat dementia. Julie: Hello, everyone, my name is Julie Smithson and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. I look forward to bringing you insight into changing the way that we learn and teach using XR technologies, to explore, enhance, and individualize learning for everyone. Today, my special guest is Olivia Wenzel, a student and founder of AltruTec, developing video games for adults suffering from dementia. Thank you so much, Olivia, for joining me today on this podcast. Olivia: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Julie: It is so great to have somebody from the next generation join me. You happen to be the youngest one of my guests. So thank you so much for being here. And I'm really excited to be able to share with everyone some of the works that we've been doing, since you and I have been working together for the last year and a half on the student committee with the Virtual and Augmented Reality Association, developing and building out resources for everyone. So first of all, I'd like to give you a chance to introduce yourself and then we'll step into a little bit about some of the work that we're doing. Olivia: Absolutely. I just graduated from high school and I'm headed to Harvard this fall. I'm interested in studying at the intersection of health and technology. So I'm thinking computer science and neuroscience, or computer science and psychology. I'm not quite sure yet. I have a startup called AltruTec. I'm really interested in improving the quality of life for older adults. But perhaps what's most relevant to today's discussion is my co-leadership of the student committee with Julie. I have the great pleasure of leading this committee of students, parents, and VR and AR industry professionals with Julie, an amazing mentor. We aim to support parents, students, and schools in adopting immersive technologies and 3D learning. But let me take a step back and answer your question about how I got involved. My interest in virtual and augmented reality is actually heavily tied to AltruTec. I have a family history of dementia, and when I first started exploring other approaches to improve people with dementia's quality of life, I ended up coming across several virtual reality applications. Long story short, they were using this immersive platform to deliver non-pharmacological therapy, such as reminiscence and music therapy. I found the mediums to be extremely promising. The early research that was coming out was so exciting. And so I ended up reaching out to some universities and companies in the area, because I really didn't have any background in technology or virtual/augmented reality, especially at the time. And I met someone in Cleveland named Reynaldo Zabala, who was involved in the VR/AR Association. And after some further correspondences, he helped me develop my ideas some more. I ended up being introduced to the committee, and soon I was heading it up. [laughs] Julie: [laughs] Which has been a long time coming for us, to finally put a project together that we can work on. And I think it was over a good six, seven months period of time of us just talking to each other, and then figuring out what kind of mission could we work on together, that could give back to the community. And that's where we came up with the parent and student resource. Olivia: Yes, yep. Julie: So, yeah, we came up with a few ideas on how to do this, but this was kind of a zero

After a short hiatus, Julie is back with a special episode, where she interviews (is interviewed by?) her partner in business and life, Alan Smithon, who you may know from our sister podcast, XR for Business. Julie: Hi, my name is Julie Smithson. Alan: And I'm Alan Smithson. Julie: And this is the XR for Learning podcast. Alan: Well... which podcast are we on? Is it mine or yours? Julie: I think it's mine. Alan: Yours, so the XR for Learning podcast. Julie: Yeah. Alan: I'm going to interview you. Julie: Yes. Alan: OK, cool. Julie: Hi, my name is Julie Smithson, and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. In all of my episodes, I talk about the way that we need to change the way that we learn and we teach, to adapt to the immersive technologies that are being implemented in enterprise and business today. So today, my guest -- my special guest -- is Alan Smithson. Alan: Hello. Julie: My partner and husband of almost 20 years. And we're going to talk about education. So welcome. Thanks for being on *my* podcast. Alan: Thank you so much for having me. I'm a little nervous, I'm not going to lie. This is an interesting podcast dynamic. Julie: It really is. We've never done this before. Alan: No, we have not. So I want to ask you questions, because you are the guru in immersive learning systems. So we'll hopefully kind of dig up where this lies, and what we have to do as a society to really push the needle forward. Julie: So what I like to do with all my podcasts is start with a baseline technology. Where are we today? Like, what's going on today? Which is really good question, because it's definitely different than it was six months ago. Alan: I would say, in the industry-- I'm coming from the business side of things. What we've seen is there's been a hyper-acceleration of digitization. So in retail and e-com, it has been decimated. People couldn't go to a store physically, and so everything moved online. And in e-commerce, we're seeing shopping trends that would have existed in 2030 happen today. This is trickling down to everything, not only retail, but then also meetings. Everybody's meeting on Zoom these days. Everybody. There's just-- we're moving to digital and we're moving to these things much faster than we had ever, ever hoped to do. Plans of digital transformation that would have taken five years are now happening today. So it's an interesting time to revisit and relook at what does education look like in an exponential world of digital transformation. Julie: And this is where the skillsets that are now needed -- in enterprise, business, and organizations today to digitally transform -- those skillsets are not being taught in the school system today. So COVID coming in and forcing people to virtually connect online, the education systems were forced to actually be online and rethink how they're teaching things. But the unfortunate thing is, is that we didn't get to the point of talking about what we were actually teaching. It was just more of a digital connection for the past six months. Alan: Well, I think since this thing has hit, it's been really just how do we make the technology work in a seamless way that is comfortable for both the teachers and the students? And to be honest, we're not quite there yet. My kids are more tech savvy than-- Julie: Our kids. Alan: Our kids. I'm sor

Designing a user experience (UX) and ensuring accessibility in XR boils down to basically the same task; addressing the needs of the user. We have Dylan Fox and Devin Boyle from XR Access on to talk about designing with accessibility in mind from the start, and discuss the upcoming 2020 XR Access Symposium. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson, and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. I look forward to bring you insight into changing the way that we learn and teach using XR technologies to explore, enhance and individualize learning for everyone. Today, my guests come from XR Access. Dylan Fox is a user experience designer, specializing in design for emerging technologies. He brings together user needs, technological capabilities, and stakeholder requirements to design accessible products. And his master's thesis was on augmented reality for the visually impaired, exploring Microsoft Hololens as an assistive device. And Devin Boyle is an advisor to XR Access, working groups and emerging technology lead for the Partnership on Employment & Accessible Technology -- otherwise known as PEAT -- supporting efforts to ensure emerging technologies are born accessible. She has more than 10 years of experience in policy analysis and development, stakeholder engagement, strategic communication, and advocacy and partnership building. Thank you both for joining me today. So, Dylan, can you give me a little bit of an outline of the work that you're doing in building a better user experience for those with accessibility challenges? Dylan: All right. Thanks, Julie. I'm Dylan. I'm a user experience designer. Just recently finished up my Master's at UC Berkeley, and now working in accessible design for bridging technologies for all sorts of things. So for me, I see my role initially as a UX designer, which is a user experience designer and somebody who understands user needs; what people need out of technology, what people expect from technology, how they understand it, and how we can design it to better work for them. And I worked for as a UX designer for a couple of years, but only recently have I really realized just how much UX can learn from the field of accessibility, because accessibility is fundamentally about addressing user needs. Some of the work I've been doing lately is with XR Access, of course. We've been trying to understand what those user needs are, across a wide spectrum when it comes to virtual and augmented reality. I've also been doing some work with UC Berkeley, doing some research with private companies who want to make their work more accessible, and make sure their users get everything that they need out of their software. Julie: We'll dive a little bit more into the UI and the work that you're doing at XR access. But I wanted to allow Devin to just give a little bit of an introduction, and how you got involved and what your involvement is with XR Access and working with Dylan and accessibility. Devin: Sure. Thanks, Julie, for having us on. I'm Devin Boyle. I am an adviser to XR Access and emerging tech lead for the Partnership on Employment & Accessible Technology. And I came to this space in a little different road from Dylan, a little bit different path. I actually come from a background of being a convener. So one of my roles within XR Access is to bring together these six different working groups -- that we'll likely get into in this conversation -- but to bring folks together and also to support communications, communicating internally and externally why industry needs to ensure different technologies, emerging technologies are accessible. Julie: Let's kick off with what are those working groups? And then we can go over and talk about it with Dylan. How about

Learning complex STEM concepts like physics or chemistry off a chalkboard is no easy task, because it removes a key factor from the equation - presence. Inspirit VR’s Aditya Vishwanath explains how giving that presence back ignites a learner’s innate curiosity. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson, and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. I look forward to bringing you insight into changing the way that we learn and teach using XR technologies to explore, enhance, and individualize learning for everyone. Today my guest is Aditya Vishwanath. Aditya is a PhD candidate in Learning Sciences and Technology Design and a Knight-Hennessy Scholar at Stanford University. He's the co-founder of Inspirit, a company that develops virtual reality learning content. And his research focuses on developing technologies that support universal access to immersive learning content. Welcome to the show. Aditya: Thank you. I'm so excited to be doing this. Julie: That's great. And we've had a couple of conversations about education, and the courses that need to be implemented into classes, and that sort of thing. Why don't you tell me a little bit about Inspirit, where you started from, and where you guys are today? Aditya: Inspirit was actually a research project that I started out with a friend and now co-founder of mine -- her name is Amrita -- and the two of us were both researchers in a lab at Georgia Tech in Atlanta. And we really stumbled upon this opportunity to explore and study what it would take to bring immersive VR to a few public schools in the city of Atlanta. And it was really just a phenomenal experience for the two of us, because what we thought was going to be just a few weeks of a project -- where we were playing the roles of research assistance -- exploded into what is Inspirit today. Our mission -- and my research too, at Stanford -- is really trying to be that bridge between the best of academic research and what we know about virtual reality and education, and then cutting edge technologies that can be used in industry and go straight into classrooms and learning environments. Inspirit was founded with that goal of accelerating the pace at which we could bring research findings of VR and education into schools, into universities, into learning environments around the world. Julie: It's definitely a big concern now, the speed of education. And not just how much we're learning, because I feel like every day it's like a firehose of things to learn. Now it's a matter of how did the education systems keep up with the demands of change that's taking place, both through innovation and changes within a company? It sounds like that's something that Inspirit is trying to address? Aditya: STEM education is what we do at Inspirit. And fundamentally, somewhere down the road, STEM education stopped becoming a hands-on interactive learning experience. And this was largely due to the needs of supporting larger and larger classrooms, more and more students, both in an online and an offline learning environment. And suddenly that personalization, that hands-on, that immersive interactive aspect to science and STEM education was completely lost. But a lot of the science learning today happens in a very passive way, with a video lecture or somebody giving you a passive lecture with a set of PowerPoint slides. And very rarely, are you interacting or actively solving a problem outside of a science lab. So our goal with Inspirit really was to bring back that hands-on piece and that interactive piece in a self-based, in a comfortable, and in an immersive environment using the power of virtual reality, both offline in schools and universities, and also online, if you're learning anything from anywhere in the world.

XR tech often has a visual focus, but we have to be careful in that line of thinking; those who are visually impaired might be left out of the conversation otherwise. Yvonne Felix, an inclusion expert at CNIB, knows from experience that the visually impaired - or anyone with any impairment - don’t have to be excluded from XR; we just have to be forward-thinking and make accessibility considerations to include users from all walks of life. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson, and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. Today, I look forward to bringing you insight into changing the way we learn and teach using XR technologies to explore, enhance, and individualize learning for everyone. Today, my guest is Yvonne Felix, who works with the Canadian National Institute for the Blind in the Accessibility and Inclusion Division as an experienced community specialist, with a demonstrated history of working in the medical industry. Thank you so much for joining me today, Yvonne. I'm really, really excited to have you here. Yvonne: Thank you, Julie. I'm very excited, too. Julie: Let's start with your role at CNIB. We've had several conversations over the last year just on-- a little bit about immersive technologies and how it affects people with disabilities, such as being visually impaired. And maybe we can start off with what your role is and, of course, how you got involved. Yvonne: Sure. First, I'll start by just sort of explaining why I wanted to work at CNIB and actually how I became interested and involved in assistive technology, and also life changing technology in general. So I was born with an eye disease called Stargardt's, and it primarily affects your central vision loss. So in the center of your eye, in your macula, you have your rods and cones. And basically, it sends a message to say that I don't need those photoreceptors for my central vision to work. So it's considered sort of an autoimmune disease. But over the years -- as I did lose my central vision fully by the time I was seven -- I learned that I would just have the type of life that required me to use technology. And so it was just really embedded in my day-to-day. I thought everybody's life was like that. I think I was in the timeframe of the world where technology was becoming very advanced very quickly. I have partial sight, compared to total blindness, and the differences I identify with using my sight. So there are many people that still do have some sight left, but they don't use it. So it's the same partial sight just identified, that I do use the sight that I do have left, in comparison to using other devices that focus on sight substitution as opposed to sight enhancement. So that's how I got involved in CNIB. My role really is about inclusion and accessibility. And accessibility is a component of inclusion. You can take accessibility and it's just one building block to other components that make inclusion a universally accessible culture, as opposed to just focusing on accessibility as one thing that you need to embed. It's just one small part of looking at that bigger picture of universal design. Julie: And this is where we start to talk about immersive technologies becoming-- providing superpowers to those like yourself, who are visually impaired. And being able to substitute and to assist you in day-to-day situations and present this technology in a way to help you get through your days in places where it can help you being immersed into something. So it's really interesting how all of this digital technology in the last couple of years kind of compounded just recently with COVID-19. And maybe you can speak to how the organization is adjusting to becoming remote, and what that baseline was like for the CNIB to be able to convert, and where you play a role in that. Yvonne:

Today’s guest, Broadstairs College Computing Programme Director Tim Jackson, saw COVID-19 coming, and expected it to flip the education system on its head. Luckily, it was the perfect opportunity to experiment transferring the classroom to a virtual environment. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson, and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. I look forward to bringing you insight into changing the way that we learn and teach using XR technologies to explore, enhance, and individualize learning for everyone. Today, my guest is Tim Jackson. Tim has been teaching further and higher education at Broadstairs College, part of the EKC Group in Kent, UK, for over 18 years, teaching a broad range of topics, including network design and management, data security, project management, games design and development, and more. Recently, robotics and virtual reality, where he has built two specialist VR lab environments with the help of some of his students. His involvement with Educators In VR enabled him to be an active participant within the inaugural Educators In VR International Summit that took place in February 2020, as one of the track leads for diversity and accessibility. Since then -- and due to recent events -- Tim has now taken his teaching in VR further, by delivering his entire teaching timetable of 21 hours per week within the Altspace VR and ENGAGE virtual reality platforms. Now, Tim is regarded as one of the few educators who is regularly and consistently delivering quality technical and vocational teaching within an active VR environment. Thanks so much for joining me today, Tim. Tim: Good morning, Julie. Really nice to be here. How are you? Julie: I'm great, thanks.Why don't you start off by introducing yourself and just a little bit about what you're doing at Broadstairs College. Tim: Sure. Okay. Well, I'm the program director for Higher Education Computing Courses at Broadstairs College, which is a fancy title. Basically, what it means is that I design and I run the programs. And these are specifically for learners who are learning at degree level. So year one and two of a degree, specializing in computing. I've been at the college for quite a while. I actually love what I do. It's a real passion of mine, teaching. And more recently, we've had a fairly new principal, he's been with us a couple of years now, called Kurt Salter, stunning guy. He really gets what we're trying to do and he's been so supportive. So these last couple of years, he's been able to allow me to develop some resources that really have enhanced the students' experience at the college. More recently, that's been things like robotics and virtual reality, which are elements that I've been able to bring into my higher education programs. And of course, the students didn't really need much convincing to get involved. So, yeah, it's been quite a ride these last couple of years. But more importantly, the last six months have been quite stunning, if you can call it that. And the last three months. Yes, very scary. Julie: Yeah. I guess first, just making a statement about how amazing it is that your colleagues support you, that your superiors support you and see the potential of this technology in the education system. Tim: Absolutely. And I think if you can go in and have a clear justification as to why you're doing what you're doing and most importantly, how the students are going to benefit from it, then I think any manager is going to listen to you. A dear friend of mine and colleague of Educators In VR, Daniel Dyboski-Bryant, once said to me, he said, "You know, the best way to convince a manager is, you can go in and tell them all day long how brilliant it's gonna be. Just go i

When we deepen our level of presence in XR, it translates to how we lead better, manage better, and learn better. This pays dividends in our connection and wellbeing in the "real world," too!  That’s what today’s guest, author and XR designer Caitlin Krause, specializes in. Caitlin authored "The Importance of Presence" chapter in The Global Resource Guide to XR Collaboration, and joins Julie to discuss the importance of presence in XR environments. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson, and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. I look forward to bringing you insight into changing the way that we learn and teach using XR technologies to explore, enhance and individualize learning for everyone. Caitlin Krause is my next guest, and she is a globally recognized learning and leadership expert, author, and keynote speaker. In her 2019 book -- "Mindful by Design" -- through her consulting, she helps individual leaders and teams leverage mindfulness, storytelling, and design principles to connect more deeply with their communities. Caitlin's organization, MindWise, focuses on creating experiences that increase awareness, emotional intelligence, and creative collaboration opportunities. Thank you so much for joining me today, Caitlin. I really look forward to our conversation. Caitlin: Thanks so much, Julie. It's great to be here. Julie: We're going to talk about something so important today that is maybe not on everybody's mind, but it certainly is on ours. I'm just going to pass it over to you to do a bit of introduction, to let us know what you're doing in this space and how you're making an impact. Caitlin: Sure. Well, I would say, first off, that it is a time of great transitions and adaptation. And I lean into that. I feel like this is a time that is extremely important for people to look at the notion of connection. And my mission in founding MindWise five years ago, and now in working with so much immersive technology and XR collaboration, really the mission that drives me is to empower humanity through connection. So I'm always looking-- I have a background in technology and also in learning design, and I'm really looking at that human factor of how do we use technology in ways that empower us. And in terms of that word, "connection", I'm thinking a lot about that connection inside that we feel when we're connected with our purpose, with our presence, and also with the values that are underneath what we're driving in business and in the way that we conduct our life. And also that connection outside, which is with other people, other experiences. I love being able to talk about this topic with you, because there are so many nuances to how that shows up in the world. I would say that I don't think there's a clear distinction at this point between business and personal lives, because many people -- probably ourselves included, I know myself -- there's not a sharp line between how I'm showing up personally and professionally, because a lot of us are working from home or we're driven to businesses that actually involve our personal self and our drive. Julie: Yeah, absolutely. So much has changed in the past couple of-- just a matter of couple of weeks. We're only about three months into this situation that we're all in, working from home. And maybe just taking that baseline moment to recognize where we are today. So people have been told they have to stay home, they're working remotely, and now they're dealing with technology. Let's call it Zoom, let's start there. Everybody seems to be logging in to Zoom. And I actually had a great experience today, hearing my mother -- who's 76 years old -- manage t

XR tech is great for the extended classroom, but it’s not the only way it can be used to teach. Jason Palmer explains how Winged Whale Media is using VR and 360 video to train tour guides on travel destinations they can’t travel to right now. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson, and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. I look forward to bringing you insight into changing the way that we learn and teach using XR technologies to explore, enhance, and individualize learning for everyone. Today, my guest is Jason Palmer. As the director of new media at Winged Whale Media, it's Jason's responsibility to help transform [the] client's vision into something that will make a difference. So with a background in digital communications from the University of Waterloo here in Canada, Jason spent the last 10 years in content creation with traditional media in videography and photography. Jason has spearheaded the use of 360 degree video VR content for a handful of clients, and now is on the forefront of producing 360 VR video content in the travel and tourism industry for major hotel brands, national tourism boards, and cruise lines. And now broadened its scope to include full virtual environments and is working on bringing tourism to people in unprecedented times of restricted travel. Thank you so much, Jason, for joining me this morning. Jason: It's an absolute pleasure. Julie: Why don't you tell me a little bit about Winged Whale Media? It sounds like it's a great place to start. Jason: [chuckles] Yeah, absolutely. So, Winged Whale Media -- as you mentioned there -- we've been around for a little bit more than 10 years now. And we started out in the traditional side, doing a lot of photography and video. In particular with the tourism industry, we would capture a lot of resorts and destinations. For example, a tour operator or a resort would send us down to a destination -- usually in the Caribbean, I might add, which is always a benefit -- and we would capture the rooms, we'd capture the pools, we'd capture the casinos, or the discos, or what have you, and bring that content back. We've been doing that for a while and it's been a great ride. I don't know if you want me to get into the name of the company now. [laughs] Julie: Yeah, absolutely. Well, obviously, with travel and tourism, the big question is, how is your industry doing? Because nobody's travelling, right? That's the first thing that everybody's probably thinking as they're listening to this podcast. So how has your business changed, and what kind of services are you starting to do within the company to support travel and tourism? Jason: We've really kind of examined over the last couple of months how we can bring education to the travel and tourism industry. And I'll give you kind of a specific example in that. Typically, a destination such as Antigua and Barbuda, or the Bahamas, or really any country kind of on the planet will do what's called a familiarization trip. And that's where they will bring a number of industry professionals -- whether they're travel agents or press -- to a destination and kind of showcase the destination to them. And for the smaller organizations, you're maybe talking anywhere from 30 to 90 people for a familiarization trip over the course of the entire year. So if you're taking 30 travel agents down to showcase your product over the course of the entire year, that's not very many when you consider that there are 5,000+ travel agents in Canada, there are 20,000+ travel agents in the United States, let alone the number around the world. So you're not getting a great deal of exposure for the effort that you're putting in. And so what we've been looking at doing is how we can broaden that scope and bring that to a

It’s a blessing that XR technologies exist to help kids continue to learn through the COVID-19 pandemic. But if we just treat the tech as a delivery system for classroom homework, we’re doing students a disservice. Education consultant Sam Nulf explains why. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson, and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. I look forward to bringing you insight into changing the way that we learn and teach using XR technologies to explore, enhance, and individualize learning for everyone. Today, my guest, Sam Nulf, has 15 years experience on instructional design in learning and development for enterprise and education. He's worked both internationally and in Toronto, Canada, as an educator and administrator. Sam has been a guest speaker on conferences speaking about 21st century learning and strategies for reimagining the curriculum. He co-authored the Inquiry Framework Tool, a guide for implementing inquiry based learning into the classroom, and has consulted with organizations on their curriculum and learning programs. Sam is currently working at the VR and AR Space, marrying his two passions, innovation and learning. Thanks for joining me today, Sam. Sam: My pleasure. Nice to be here, Julie. Julie: Great, great. So please tell me a little bit more about your passion, your vision. We talked right before we started recording here today, about when we decided we were going to record; it was pre-COVID and this isolation that's going on right now for everyone, and how education and learning from home has impacted everyone. And I'd love for you to just take off in a conversation with me, about how we're going to adjust learning from home, and what you're seeing from your perspective and your experience. Sam: [laughs] That's a really big question. I'll try and break it down. Julie: Absolutely, absolutely. How are we going to fix this problem? [laughs] Sam: Right, right. Let's just first maybe touch on what I perceived to be the climate out there. I think there's been some reporting in the news channels about some dissatisfaction and frustration from parents, with how the roll-out of the learning programs through the use of technology has gone. And that frustration, I think it generally revolves around a gap in understanding for parents. Parents need a little more support in how to help their children at home. I think there needs to be-- that bridge between the institution of education and parents needs to be supported and built out a bit more. And then that will inform how robust the learning can be with what's being pushed out. It seems that the tool -- if we're talking about technology as a tool -- hasn't quite been used to its full potential. It's more sort of like a delivery service for the checklist of items that parents have to do. And the board will call it learning. "You do this, you do this, you do this, and your child is learning." But there's an opportunity that's been missed, to make the learning really rich. And that is one part technology, but it's another part, the instructional design piece or the pedagogy. Rethinking how to how to teach. And there has been some big conversations about inquiry based learning or problem based learning and 21st century competencies, that sort of are amplified with that type of instruction. So I think there's still some work to do. Julie: Yeah, just a story I've heard this week about a very frustrated teacher who has put a lot of pressure on the parent, for not engaging their child at home enough with the remote teacher. So, first of all, the frustration of the teacher not having the parents sit there by the student and say, you have to do your work, get onto the computer and you have to talk to this teacher. But

“Pivoting” isn’t just an industry term anymore - in the wake of COVID-19, educators have had to pivot as well, quickly adopting XR collaboration and video conferencing technologies just to teach their students. Educational consultant and innovation director James McCrary explains how his most important work lately is just making sure teachers and parents are adjusting to the new norm. Julie: Ok. Hello, my name is Julie Smithson, and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. I look forward to bringing you insight into changing the way that we learn and teach, using XR technologies to explore, enhance, and individualize learning for everyone. Today, my guest, James McCrary, is an educator located in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And since 2012, he began presenting at state, regional, and national conferences such as LAC-- what-- James: Yeah, that's LACU. Julie: LACU! And FETC and CUE and ISTE, on topics around 3D and immersion technology. He is a co-founder of Singularity Media Group, which specializes in spatial awareness, and learning in augmented and virtual reality. He also hosts the VR podcast in Simulation Live, discussing the impact of immersion technology. In 2019, he was recognized as an Apple Distinguished Educator and Google Certified Educator for his work integrating immersion technology into the classroom and positively impacting students globally. Recently, he began partnering with LSU College of Education, Faculty and Research on virtual reality with pre-service educators, and as the incoming president of ISTE Virtual Environments. Thanks so much for joining me, James. James: Oh yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I mean, I love talking about this stuff. And so I think podcasting just lends itself to me just kind of rambling on a little bit, so... [chuckles] Julie: [laughs] Amazing. Well, there's so many things to talk about in education today. And I know I'd love for you to share with our listeners a little bit about what you do on a daily basis, and how you're making the biggest impact as your role of director of technology and working with schools in Louisiana to introduce immersive technologies. James: Primarily, right now my direct role is I am a director technology at -- essentially -- an elementary school through fifth grade. And the thing that we focused on the most right now is a augmented reality, both in terms of consumption and creation. And I work with other schools in the area. I'm very fortunate to have really good relationships with a lot of other directors of technology, not just in our area, but in our surrounding extended metro area, in our state, even in surrounding states. And I've been kind of adopted [chuckles] by other organizations in Florida and California that have graciously allowed me to interact with their schools, their students, and their teachers to kind of go beyond just AR and looking at other type of spatial learning, using things like head mounted display, VR experiences, both in terms of consumption and also creation and collaboration. And so on a daily basis, throughout the day, I'm working with teachers and students, obviously with their technology needs, but also integrating the AR methodologies, primarily using things like CoSpaces and Merge EDU -- that's two of the biggest ones that we use -- but also in the evenings, and on weekends, and times that I take off with other schools to implement those other levels of technology that we just talked about. Julie: That's great. I have to ask, how has that role changed for you since Covid has changed the way that students learn? You know, implementing that into schools is obviously a challenge *without* having a pandemic being a part of the solution. James: It'

We often say that some concepts can only be taught to students spatially, and getting them inside some VR is the best way to do it. Emilie Joly from apelab visits with Julie to explain how that same concept, applied to educators, inspired Zoe.com. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson, and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. I look forward to bringing you insight into changing the way that we learn and teach using XR technologies to explore, enhance and individualize learning for everyone. Today, my guest is Emilie Joly, and she is a CEO by day, an interaction designer by night, co-founding apelab, a Swiss-US software company bringing immersive technologies to the world. And with her co-founders, they launched an exciting remote learning platform called Zoe for teachers and schools around the world. Students are able to learn and build their own immersive experiences around curriculum-based subjects, using their visual soft programming tools and Unity game engine. Thanks so much for being with me here today, Emily. Welcome. Emilie: Thank you, Julie. It's a pleasure to be here. Julie: That's great. Well, why don't you tell me a little bit about the history of apelab, and then dive right in on how Zoe is helping people learn. Emilie: I co-founded apelab six years ago now -- so it's been a while -- with two other great peers of mine. We founded the company when we were still at university. Our background is we're interaction designers, and we wanted to build 3D interactive experiences using our iPhones on 360 degrees. But there were no tools. We used the Unity game engine at the time, but it was still very early. And so we decided to build our own software tools. And the goal of those tools was to help non-coders, creative teams, creative people to build immersive 3D content without having to code. And so that's how we started the company. We worked with different partners in the immersive space like Facebook, Google, HTC, did some work there. And then recently we decided to put all of our software tools in a platform called Zoe. And that platform is for teachers and students to take advantage of what we've built in the edtech context. Julie: So can you tell us a little bit about introducing the concept? Because what you're telling me is it's a new way to tell stories. It's a brand new way of storytelling. It's three dimensional learning. It's something that I felt very passionate about, how to introduce three dimensional learning into our classrooms to explore spatial presence and understanding, since that's what-- where we live in today. So maybe can you share some of the concepts that you use at Zoe to introduce why do we need this spatial understanding and three dimensional interactions? Emilie: There's something about being in a virtual space -- in a 3D space -- that makes so much difference. We are used to flat interfaces, but when you put students that are younger -- like 12, 13, 14 year olds -- into a 3D environment where they can fully interact with the space, and then you put them back into 2D flat interfaces, they don't understand why we haven't been using those 3D interfaces in the first place, because it's much more natural. It makes a lot more sense for learning, and for creating, and also just for sparking imagination. These 3D spatial environments are very unique in terms of what, how, and what you can learn. And I think at least our approach is that we're interested in giving-- empowering the students to build their own experiences in that 3D world. So they are the ones creating the learning material for others, they are the ones telling stories, they are the ones building the stories. Like they would if they were doing an essay, or having to do an argument with other students. Julie: S

Today’s guest, Craig Frehlich, is an educational consultant, and first saw the learning potential of VR on a trip to the mall with his son. But he drops in to stress the experience itself isn’t going to teach much, without a discussion with students about what they experienced after the fact. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. I look forward to bring you insight into changing the way we learn and teach using XR technologies, to explore and enhance an individualized learning for everyone. Today, my guest is Craig Frehlich. And he has been working in education for over 25 years and has his master's degree in education with a focus on curriculum design. He is also an educational consultant and speaker on the topics of inquiry, design thinking, and the use of technology in education. Craig is currently a design teacher and academic advisor for various organizations, and he pioneered the first VR lab for school in Canada. His main focus is to use contextual and conceptual thinking to translate VR experiences into lesson guides that help map successfully introspective journeys in virtual reality. His upcoming book, "Immersive Learning: Harnessing Virtual Reality Superpowers in Education", offers a practical approach to using VR in a variety of subjects and disciplines. Thanks for joining me today, Craig. Craig: Hi, Julie. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be on the show. Julie: And what perfect timing this is to talk about some of the schools that you work on, to help support our educators in the global community today. Craig: I agree. Julie: Yeah. So maybe if you want to share a little bit about what you're working on, and how you can help our listeners -- especially if they're teachers -- in some of the work that you've done, and provide some advice on learning for those listeners today. Craig: I'd love to. I think I'll start with my origin story, which is how I first got interested in VR. So my son and I were in a mall in Canada and it was 2016. He was 16 at the time, 16 years old. So he dragged me into a Microsoft store where they had an HTC Vive setup. We had to sign a whole bunch of forms. Luckily, there was no line up and he donned the headset and was playing around in VR. It was The Lab by Valve. And I watched him, and he was enthralled and it looked so interesting. So he convinced me to put the headset on. When I put the headset on, I just couldn't believe how realistic it was. There's words like presence and when you're don your avatar, how it feels so much like real life. And it was that moment that got me thinking about how a great tool this would be for VR. Julie: So how did you then take that next step in to, I guess, becoming an educator within VR? Where did that take off for you? Craig: On our drive home back to our town, we started ruminating on the experience. Like, The Lab has Longbow, which is an archery game. And my son and I started talking about how you could feel the controllers vibrate, and we started to unpack the experience. Which made me think about, it's one thing for people to put the headset on, but I think most importantly -- especially for educators -- is how can we make meaning from such a magical/powerful experience? So I started investigating this. Lucky enough, we ended up getting someone donate some money, and we bought three headsets for our school in Canada. And as we put headsets on kids, they walk away with awe, wonder, sometimes bewilderment. But it was until we had conversations after, that it really solidified the learning. So I started writing lesson guides, things like "What should you be seeing? What should you be focusing on before you get into the headset?" And then probably more importantly, when the e

We interrupt your regularly-scheduled podcast for this special announcement, where Julie introduces the XR Collaboration project. MetaVRse, along with other major players in the XR space, have come together to develop an easy-to-use guide for the newly-home-office-bound to navigate the many telecommunication tools available from the industry.

Many of us are experimenting with homeschooling at the moment, whether we want to or not. Julie hopes to help listeners by offering a glimpse into the Smithson home, and how she's educating her two daughters while schools are closed.

In virtual space, the sky's the limit -- literally. Your Avatars can fly and teleport and change form in an instant, even in a relatively mundane collaboration meeting or classroom setting. Ben Erwin of Silicon Harlem returns to discuss the development of XR's version of "Netiquette." Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. Every session is meant to provide you with the value in microlearning, about the way technologies will change the approach of education, the creation needed and the tech savvy brilliance to support the advances of our digital transformation. Join us today with my next guest, Ben Erwin, who is an expert on the XR ecosystem, from hardware and software platforms to the who's who in the industry. Recognizing the revolution of how we consume information being brought about by spatial computing and volumetric video, Ben has focused on creating new experiences and WebXR and social VR. As director of Silicon Harlem's annual tech-enabled community conference since 2018, Ben programmed the agenda, developed the marketing and produced the events for the next one, which will be held at the Forum of Columbia University in October. Thanks so much for joining me, Ben, today. Ben: Hey, Julie, it's great to be back. Julie: And so much to talk about with everything that's going on. I know we've had several different conversations about our intake and insight into the way things have changed before the coronavirus has hit our communities. But we talked a lot about the communication of technology, the humanics behind it, and how to adapt with the interaction. So maybe if you want to open up with a bit of your expertise and what you're seeing today in our communities and in business and how we're dealing with each other on communication. Ben: Well, I think that the phenomenon that we're seeing right now, especially since it kicked in -- it was a very sort of interesting timing, how the Educators In VR conference happened. The outbreak had already happened in the east, and this conference happened the week of February 17th. And it was so phenomenally successful that it was a proof-positive use case that social VR is not only a thing, but something that many different types of use cases can take advantage of. Number one is conferences. And so HTC Vive, last week, had another phenomenal conference. They had scheduled an in-person conference and they had to cancel it because of the pandemic. And they held it very successfully on the ENGAGE platform last week. We've also seen a big surge in Zoom, which is a traditional platform, uses browsers as an install base. People are getting used to the idea of not only working remotely, but collaborating remotely. Teachers are giving lesson plans over the Internet. Students are learning as classes, in groups over the Internet. This is a very rapid paradigm shift that we're seeing. And what gives me a lot of heart is how well it's going. Julie: Yeah, I think everybody's kind of-- well, we've had to, we've been forced to take that step back and figure out both in the classrooms as well as in business on how are we collaborating, how are we working together, how do we now collaborate when I'm at my house and you're at your house and we're so many miles away? And we do have this technology now that can be put in front of us, we can connect to, we can actually see and visualize things like 3D models to work on and to collaborate, to develop and design together. All of that technology is possible now. So opening up that new means of communication, where before it was always face-to-face or it was over the phone or just even in a conference call, we can now introduce more online platforms and virtual platforms to collaborate. And I think that's really opened the

Volumetric video and other spatial 3D technologies allows us to add a Z axis to the way we learn. Director of Silicon Harlem Ben Erwin is on the show to discuss teaching in the same three dimensions we all live in. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. Ben Erwin is an expert of the XR ecosystem, including hardware and software platforms and events in the rapidly evolving industry. Recognizing the revolution of how we consume information being brought about by spatial computing and volumetric video, Ben is focused on creating new experiences in WebXR and social VR. As director of Silicon Harlem's annual tech enabled community conference since 2018, Ben programs the agenda, develops the marketing, and produces the events. The next one which will be held at the forum at Columbia University on October 16th, 2020. Welcome, Ben. Thanks very much for joining me today. Ben: Thank you for having me, Julie. It's an honor to be here. I appreciate being on your show. Julie: Great. Well, I think you and I have had a couple of different conversations that we want to touch base with, and starting with spatial memory. And we're in a time where many of us are developing and working and moving to online and virtual worlds. And I've always said -- and I think people are starting to realize -- that we live in a three dimensional world. Why don't we learn inside of it? And this is where spatial computing comes into play. But even deeper from that is how we respond as a human and how we intake this information and what we do with it. So maybe you can do a little bit of intro to yourself and how you got into knowing more about spatial memory and the applications around it. Ben: Thank you. I started my business in the late 90s, as the Internet -- as Web 1.0 -- became a thing. And I've been developing all the way through the rise of social and the rise of mobile. And so this new evolution that we're seeing right now -- some call it Web 3, some call it the Fourth Industrial Revolution -- where we're adding 3D to-- as a medium. And it's more than just adding a Z-axis to content. The fact that we're inside of an experience, when you put on a VR headset and you are inside of a room and you have other people there that are also avatars like you, the impression that that makes on your mind is a remarkable difference to any other type of experience. And though 2D communications platforms -- the video conferencing, and all of the ways that we're used to doing it -- as high quality as it is, even the lower fidelity early stage media that we're at inside of social VR -- and just in general -- the medium of 3D has added so much to the way that we perceive it, that I'm very excited about how that is going to be part of our learning process, because when we see things and we are in an area, it imprints our minds differently than it would when we're just in 2D space. Julie: Just to give our listeners a little bit more premise, "spatial" obviously means the things that are around you. And that's not just objects, that's your environment and also sound as well. So maybe you can talk a little bit more about your memory and how you take these things in, and you remember them more. That's the big change now from learning things in two dimensions and now learning about them and being a part of them in that three dimensional world. Ben: Part of it -- as you introduced there -- is that it's the room around you, it's the objects in the room. And very importantly, it's sound. And part of spatial audio is the perception of being close to something or what side it's on. And it's more than just a left-right traditional stereo audio effect that we have. It's a

For any learning to take place in the next few weeks, parents and educators are going to have to get creative in their teaching methods. Jaime Donally founded ARVRinEDU to help them find ways to introduce XR into their curriculum, and she tells Julie how right now is the perfect time to experiment. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. Every podcast session is meant to provide you with a value in micro-learning, about the way technologies will change the way that we learn and we teach. So today on my podcast, I have Jaime Donally, who is a passionate technology enthusiast, and she began her career as a math teacher, later moved into instructional technology. And her desire to build relationships has brought about opportunities to collaborate with students and educators around the world. She provides staff development and training on immersive technologies as an ed-tech consultant. And her latest adventures include the launch of Global Maker Day and the ARVRinEDU community events and presentations. She works as an author and speaker to provide practical use of augmented and virtual reality in the classroom. Thanks for joining me today, Jaime. Jaime: Thank you so much. I'm excited. I'm excited to have this conversation, too. And I think the discussion about education and learning, obviously with the situation that we have going on in the world today, everybody is pivoting their eyes to how do we learn online, and the virtual collaboration that we can begin to have. But why don't we start with what you're working on? Maybe do a little bit of a presentation on your mission and your goals in the education space. And let's teach somebody about XR for learning. Julie: There is so much happening. I feel like I've been sharing immersive technology for several years now, really before people quite understood or knew what it was. As time has transitioned and moved on, course it's become more popular and people are more aware. And it certainly finally got a stand in education, which has been an exciting journey. But really, my goal in all of what I do is sharing from a practical lens, though I don't get caught up into just the hype, but really looking at what is this practically look like, what are the tools we should have in our classrooms? Where is the money that should be spent? Where is the time and value for our students? Where are those opportunities? A lot of that discussion is coming from administrators, it could come from teachers. And oftentimes people are making decisions based upon what they see at a conference or an event. And then what's being marketed -- of course -- are the things that are quite expensive. And so they're taking a leap without actually thinking about what that means for our classroom. So that is kind of where-- more of what I stand and what I share on today is what does this mean for our classroom, and what how should this really be used so that we can maximize the usage, maximize the opportunity for our students, and maximize our our money, our budgets to use it effectively. Julie: So with the changing times advising teachers on how to implement these strategies -- and the XR strategy, shall we say -- into the classrooms. Maybe you can-- we'll give a little bit of instruction on how to implement into your classrooms, but maybe we'll pivot that afterwards into what can teachers do today in these situations, where kids are at home. So I know that those are two very different conversations. So why don't you present a little bit about the practical use? And if I was a teacher, where would I start to begin to implement these technologies into the classroom? Jaime: Yeah, absolutely. So from the beginning, I always get the question of what one tool do I need to downlo

Picking up where she left off, Victoria talks about how times like these can be either a bane or an unexpected boon for fledgling startups, and how to tell where you fit on that spectrum. Listen to Part 1 here. Julie: Hello, everyone, welcome back to the XR for Learning podcast. My name is Julie Smithson, I am your host, and today we have Part 2 with Victoria Yampolsky. We're talking about forecasting for innovation with the execution roadmap. Victoria is the founder and president of The Startup Station, an education and consulting company committed to helping founders be successful and get funded faster. She focuses on creating credible financials and valuations for early stage ventures. Welcome, Victoria. Victoria: Thank you so much, Julie. It's a pleasure for me to be back. Julie: Yes. Thank you. And let's continue our conversation. The first episode, we talked about forecasting for innovation with the opportunity, and assessing what opportunities are out there. We're right now in the first couple of weeks of having this pandemic with the coronavirus. So some of our conversations are obviously highlighted with the sensitivity of some companies and businesses and startups which are affected in a positive way, and in a negative way. And of course, assessing the opportunities right now for each startup will be different. But we're going to continue on with an execution roadmap. If your business is one of the fortunate ones that is doing well during these times, what kind of roadmap and execution path will you take? And maybe you can continue the conversation from here on innovation, and how-to, and the impact on revenues, costs, supply chain, and capital expenditures and being able to budget for the unfortunate. Victoria: For a startup, creating a financial model needs to be a lot more granular than for a more established entity, because you need to really model your activities to be able to evaluate which activities are working, and which activities are not. And here I'm specifically referring to go-to-market strategy. It's not enough when you're thinking about your revenues to just project the top line and say "I think I'm going to get the 10 percent user growth, or 10 percent client growth, etc." because it's not clear where that growth comes from. And when you begin modeling your go-to-market strategy, you are then going to be forced to determine the drivers that make that strategy happen. And then those drivers are the ones that you can change to test the sensitivity of your business model and sensitivity to your business to various scenarios, such as the coronavirus. So when it comes to AR/VR, there are only two types of customers to which you can sell. You can sell directly to the consumer, in which case you employ a variety of marketing strategies: digital marketing, social media marketing. You may go and make podcasts such as this one, you may employ influencers, radio advertising, etc. Or you may sell to enterprises and that usually employs a sales force. Each of those strategies have assumptions associated with them. One of them is a budget. Budget is a discretionary assumption that every company can decide on. And in these times, that is a decision that your company should make, whether you want to increase or decrease your marketing budgets, depending on how aggressive you want to be or more cautious you want to be, in conjunction with your company's strategy and also how you're going to allocate that budget across the marketing strategies. Now, how do you decide whether your budget should be increased or decreased? I think you need to think about who your customers are, and whether they are affected by th

One of the first hurdles any organization must leap in the adoption of new technology is funding it. In this special two-part episode, Julie chats with The Startup Station founder Victoria Yampolsky about how to plan your budget, for the best and worst-case scenarios. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. Join us today with our next guest, Victoria Yampolsky. Victoria is the founder and president of The Startup Station, an educational and consulting company committed to help founders be successful and get funded faster. She focuses on the creative, credible financials and valuations for early-stage ventures. Specifically she's helped entrepreneurs master the necessary finance skills, so that they correctly translate their business plan into a financial plan, evaluate the financial feasibility of different initiatives, and credibly present their companies to investors, and use their financial model to drive the business forward. Thanks so much for joining me, Victoria. Victoria: Thank you very much for inviting me, Julie. It's a pleasure to be here. Julie: Our topic today is going to be a little bit different. We're gonna talk about budgeting, and finances, and starting up a business, and being able to budget for innovation, which is something that not many people understand, what the implications of technologies and the advancements of impacts they have on businesses. So maybe you can tell me a little bit more about your company, and the approach that you started to take and the demand and need for your services. Victoria: So I started my company in 2013, after I was an entrepreneur myself. And then I began advising the company and I saw a huge need for business and financial expertise in the startup world. My first venture was in media and entertainment. And it was pretty clear that a lot of filmmakers were extremely passionate about the projects that they were making, and they put very little thought into thinking how they going to monetize it, how they're going to bring their projects to market. And when I began advising my first non media and entertainment company, I realized that the same problem persisted in the startup community as well. There were a lot of brilliant entrepreneurs who wanted to propel innovation, who wanted to change the world, who wanted to disrupt industries that were not working efficiently, who wanted to solve problems that were not being sold or sold not in the best way. And they were coming up with solutions, but they didn't yet think through how to make those solutions into businesses, how to bring those solutions to market, how to reach mass adoption. And so that brought me to a starting the Startup Station, where I help entrepreneurs think through those roadmaps, make sure that the plans that they put together are financially feasible, how to put together those baselines which help them to evaluate if their strategy is working, if their plans for bringing the product to market are efficient and react faster to market feedback, to conserve capital and to also be successful. Julie: Are you working with any startup companies that are dealing with XR technologies like virtual reality, or augmented reality, or artificial intelligence right now? Victoria: So none of those technologies are one of my clients right now, but I have talked over a thousand founders, because in addition to consulting one-to-one, I also teach entrepreneurs, and I teach them how to evaluate those business plans and put together those financials in their own. And out of those students I did teach a few XR companies. Julie: So I think that the introduction of all of these technologies into a business where one day, we have brand new ha

As today's guest, Grove Learning CEO Sean Strong, says: just because something's cutting-edge, doesn't mean it has to be a pain to use. That's the philosophy behind his company, which aims to make introducing VR into a classroom easy and efficient.  Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson, and I am your XR for Learning podcast host. Today on our podcast is Sean Strong. Sean is the CEO and co-founder of Grove Learning. Grove Learning is working to make VR more accessible and effective for educators worldwide. Sean studied artificial intelligence at Stanford University, worked at Apple and EdTech, and has taught over 100 students how to code. Welcome, Sean. How are you? Sean: Hi, Julie. Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing well. Julie: Great. Why don't you highlight a little bit about yourself and Grove Learning, and the mission that Grove Learning is bringing to education and learning? Sean: Yep. As you mentioned, we are Grove Learning. We're a management platform for Oculus Quest and Go, specifically engineered for the classroom. We originally built VR experiences. We created a math game called Space Gerbil and we kind of realized in that process that actually bringing that to schools was very challenging, and that for your average teacher -- who might not be savvy with technology -- VR can actually be very hard to use. And so for us, we kind of started Grove Learning with this mission to really make VR simple for educators. Julie: That's awesome. I know that you started off -- as you mentioned -- creating the content for a library to be used, I guess. And then you kind of had to take that step back -- as you said -- to ensure that the teachers had a system that they could use, that was easy to deploy in the classroom setting. And maybe you can talk a little bit about the features of your platform, and why it's so easy for teachers to pick up and use for themselves. Sean: Yeah. The core features that we provided Grove Learning are just the things that teachers kind of wish they had without Grove Learning. And so what does that look like? That looks like you can start any experience remotely kind of from a dashboard, right? So if I have 20 students in my class, I can send them all to Julie's app, and they'll all start at the same time, synchronized. That being said, sometimes students really enjoy VR and they get a bit carried away, and it can be hard to get your students attention back. So sometimes you just want to pause, right? And with Grove Learning, you can just pause all the experiences and kind of regain control of your classroom. We allow you to group different students and so you can have five different students doing experience A and five other students doing Experience B. We kind of give you that granular control. So on one hand, we kind of allow the teacher to be in charge of the experiences on the headset. On the other hand, we tell them what exactly is going on, right? And so we can tell them what application a student is currently in. We can actually provide full video streams of all the headsets in a classroom. And so you-- can we call it card view. You can think of it as a kind of CCTV view, where you can see all the different devices and what students are actually looking at in real time, which can help teachers kind of know what's going on. Because otherwise the status quo is, teachers generally just kind of lean down and listen to headsets. And for us, we just found that listening wasn't an effective enough management tool to really make VR practical in classrooms. Julie: So when-- if I'm a teacher and obviously I need to have a little bit of curation and knowledge based on what experiences to use in my classroom, there obviously needs to be a little bit of

In this episode of XR for Learning, Julie discusses how technologies like augmented reality will be crucial for educating kids from Kindergarten to High School, to prepare them for their future roles in a post-XR workforce.

For a lot of us, we think learning ends when our working life begins. But not only is that untrue; being able to learn new skills for our careers is only going to become more important. Dominic Deane drops in to talk about how GEMBA is helping with that. Julie: Hello, my name is Julie Smithson and I am your host for the XR for Learning podcast. Today on my show is Dominic Deane from the Leadership Network. Dominic has been building immersive technology companies since his second year of university, founding Chronicles VR, a premium virtual reality studio, and taking on consultancy work with some of UK's largest cultural institutions, including the British Museum, English Heritage and the BBC. Joining the Leadership Network in 2017, Dominic has led the creation and positioning of GEMBA, the Leadership Network new virtual reality offering since joining the Leadership Network. Dominic created a new division responsible for the Virtual Reality Learning Platform for Business Transformation, creating and delivering GEMBA to Fortune 2000 customers around the world. Welcome, Dominic. Dominic: Oh, thank you very much Julie. Pleasure to meet you. Thank you so much for putting me on. Julie: Thanks so much. Why don't you give me a little bit of an overview of the Leadership Network, the parent company who has produced GEMBA, and how you're making GEMBA part of the learning strategy for many of these companies that you deal with? Dominic: Sure. So the Leadership Network's been around for the better part of a decade now. And primarily we've been delivering in-person training to top executives at Fortune 2000 companies. Ultimately, what that looks like is 3-day immersive learning on a kind of best practice site. So be it BMW, or Google, or at Toyota, for example; these executives get immersed into the culture of these organizations, where they get taught about certain topics like Lean Industry 4.0, Supply Chain Excellence Innovation, from subject matter experts who are leading in their field. So they might be from M.I.T. or Harvard. And ultimately, it's an opportunity for these top executives to get world-class training. Julie: Is the challenge... maybe you want to talk about the challenges that you immediately walk into when you work with these clients? Because you have to start somewhere when it comes to transforming the energy and the delivery of what your product holds for them. Dominic: Yes. In terms of these large organizations, there's a whole range of challenges that they face that we're able to kind of talk through with them on a level that many organizations potentially don't get the opportunity to. So when you're talking to these top executives in these quite private locations, you hear about the true challenges they face as an organization. So be it embracing industry 4.0, embracing digital transformations that, fundamentally, these transformations challenge the very existence of that business. And we're in a privileged position, whereby we're able to talk to these organizations about these challenges, and we're able to respond to them with feedback and guidance. And what that's looked like for us has been about going, "okay, well, look; you guys are getting some great information from us, from our leaders, through our subject matter experts. What more can we do?" And these very large organizations have said to us, "look, we get great immersive training, but how do we roll this learning out to our whole organization?" And that's kind of where the GEMBA offering has come from: a solution that uses XR technologies, primarily virtual reality, to deliver immersive learning at massive, massive scale for these large organizations. Julie: One of the things that we talk about, the biggest part of digital transformation isn't necessa

Teaching a language is a lot easier when you share a room with your pupil, and have the benefit of human interaction and body language to bolster the lesson. With VR, today's guest Michael McDonald is able to do that for students in Norway, all the way from his HQ in Italy. Julie: All right. Welcome, everybody, to the XR for Learning podcast. Today, I have Michael McDonald on the show. Originally from London, Michael now lives in Italy and graduated with a degree in German and business management after two years working in the U.K. public sector in HR and recruitment. He left his job in London to get back to what he loved to do most, and that was all about languages and education. So I would love to introduce Michael to the show, and I would love to have you tell us more about Gold Lotus, what you're working on in the classroom using XR technologies, and talk about all the things that are going so well for you, educating these kids through virtual reality. Michael, welcome to the show. Michael: Thanks for having me, Julie. And hello to any of the listeners out there that will listen to this later on. So really nice to be here. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to share a little bit about what I've been up to. But it's not all about me. It's about certainly the students and the teachers that I'm working with, and also the wider community and there's a whole lot of stuff we can talk about on today's episode regarding those. So yeah. In terms of your first point about Gold Lotus. Yes, it's a kind of consultancy I set up here in Italy a few years ago after a good few years of exploring everything from Google Cardboard to 15-pound Amazon headsets -- sorry, headsets from Amazon like virtual reality -- and up to the latest Oculus Go, Oculus Quest and everything else in between. So I set up the consultancy, Gold Lotus, which basically reflects this kind of idea that, you know, anybody -- and I'm going to get deep here, I'm sorry about that -- but anybody can grow from those muddy waters.You might be a student or teacher kind of in the doldrums, maybe thinking, "well, what can I do to maybe accelerate my learning, or improve the way that I learn languages," because that's kind of my field. And it's just kind of a way for people to be pushed by me, hopefully in the right direction, and shown alternative ways of using this new technology within a learning context. So that's a bit of the background. Julie: Yeah. And that's fantastic. I've been showing up to some of the YouTube classes that you've shown on LinkedIn, and they just fascinate me because I think you've taken teaching to a whole different level. I've had several conversations with people about your lessons, just in different contexts. And it comes back to really testing who the teacher is, now, and the personality, the intonation in your voice, because these students can't see you. And I think you have risen to the top, in my mind, of having that voice that is going to engage the kids and have them respond back. And I think that's one of the best things that you've seen as obviously teaching these languages, that you're encouraging these students to speak more and more and learn the English language. So maybe you can talk to the response of the students with some of the lessons that you've been doing. Michael: Thanks for the compliments, but I really can't take credit for those lessons. In a sense, yes, I provide the platform for them, just as you are doing now with your podcast. The vibe of the experience or the interaction, it does depends on the person with whom you're talking, or the people. And so I guess that from my perspective, I'm just grateful that the tools are out there now for me to meet these people. When I talk about people, I'm talking -- at the moment -- so the students in Norway with the school

Recently, Julie gave a virtual presentation at the Educators in VR 2020 Summit. There, she discussed Cloud Learning and the concept of Humanics; basically, developing the things humans can do that machines cannot.  This podcast has been slightly edited from the Educators in VR livestream, for brevity and technical reasons (there were a few connectivity issues during the stream. 5G can't get here soon enough!)