Podcasts about jason it

As the property management industry continues to evolve, it's important to stay up to date on the latest innovations in technology. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with David Normand from Vendoroo to talk about AI's role in the future of property management. You'll Learn [01:29] The AI Revolution [08:47] The Importance of Empathy and Human Touch [22:21] Decreasing the Cost of Maintenance Coordination [32:29] New Features Coming to Vendoroo Quotables “As any property manager believes, we know how to do it the best.” “If you're not reading articles and studying up on this, I think that's going to catch you by surprise pretty quickly.” “Empathy is the magic lubrication that makes everything better.” “Empathetic reflection and empathy is a magical ingredient.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript [00:00:00] David: If you're not building AI tools from working with your partners, from being on the ground floor with them and using the data and building tools based upon the data and their pain points and their failures, buyer beware. If somebody's coming to you and saying, Hey, we figured this all out in the lab. [00:00:14] David: Come use it. Yeah. Right. Buyer beware. [00:00:18] Jason: All right. Welcome property management entrepreneurs to the DoorGrow Show or the Property Management Growth podcast. I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive group coaching mastermind for residential property management entrepreneurs. We've been doing this for over a decade and a half. [00:00:39] Jason: I've brought innovative strategies and optimizations to the property management industry. I have spoken to thousands of property management companies. I've coached over 600 businesses. I've rebranded over 300 companies like Bar Rescue for property managers, cleaning up their businesses, and we would love to help coach you and support you and your growth. [00:01:01] Jason: We have innovative strategies for building out growth engines, for building out your operational challenges, for helping you figure out how to get to the next level in your business and one of the cool tools that I'm excited to showcase today with my guest here, David Norman, is Vendoroo. We've had you on the show before. [00:01:19] Jason: Welcome back David.  [00:01:20] David: Yeah. Thank you for having me. It felt like years ago, it was only about, I think eight months ago since we did this, so much has changed over the time, so it's great to be back. Yeah, it's great to be back.  [00:01:29] Jason: Good to have you. I know you're in the middle of this AI revolution, which AI is just innovating and changing so rapidly. It probably does feel like years ago, so, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been crazy. You guys have made a lot of changes too, so, you even changed your brand name from the last time we had you on the show. Yeah. Which was I think Tulu. Yeah. Right. And so, yeah. So why don't you get us caught up on what's going on 'cause, you know, there's been a lot.  [00:01:55] David: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you first of all for having me here today, Jason, and from the entire Vendoroo group of us, which, you know, the team has grown 10 x over the past eight months, which has been awesome. And I just also wanted to start in thanking everybody from what we call our client partners who have jumped in into this great unknown that is AI and is going to be like, how is this going to work in our industry? And so that's really what we've been focusing on the past eight months. You know, it's been a unbelievable journey of both failures, successes learnings and insights. And ultimately we're getting excited here at the NARPM broker owner which is in Denver to unveil Vendoroo. Like this is the coming out party. And so we're super excited if you're going to be there. We have a massive booth that we have set up that we have the ai alliance with other people that are working in the AI space, and I really hope that you guys come over and check it out. I promise this. [00:02:53] David: You'll never see a booth or a display like we have set up. At the NARPM broker owner. So.  [00:02:58] Jason: Now I want to go attend it. Yeah. Just so I can see your booth.  [00:03:01] David: So, let me put it this way. You may see the robot from the Jetsons walking around the booth walking around the NARPM broker owner, so, okay. [00:03:07] David: Yeah. Rosie? Yeah. You may see something like that. So she'll be vacuuming with her apron? Yeah. She'll be doing a little social engagement. It'll be cool. So, okay. Okay.  [00:03:17] Jason: Yeah. Very cool. Yeah, so catch us up on what, like, let's get into the kind of the background and the overview for people that have never heard about Vendoroo and what you guys do and how you got into this. [00:03:29] Jason: Yeah. Give people kind of the backstory. Yeah.  [00:03:31] David: Yeah. Thank you for that. So really the backstory is that, you know, we know of this AI economy that's coming, right? And there was a few of us, you know, I've been in this industry for 18 years. You know, I've managed you know, portfolios of 40,000 doors. [00:03:47] David: I've managed them for governments. You know, I started off with our own property management. Much like you guys. We started off with 80 doors. We grew to 550 doors in four years. So it was exciting to know that technology that was coming that promised duplication because, you know, as any property manager believes, we know how to do it the best, right. [00:04:05] David: And so what we decided to do is to come together and say, Hey, if AI's coming, there's two things that we need to figure out. Number one is how is this going to help us show value in this new industry to this new generation of property owners that is here, that is coming, that has been raised in the technology world too, right? [00:04:25] David: And two, can it actually duplicate our efforts? Can it actually be an employee for us? Right? And I don't care what people are promising about ai, you don't know until you get into what we call like, you know, get into the weeds, you got to get into the trenches. And so that's what we did, right? We went out and we were the guys that grabbed the torch and we said, we are going to take all the risk. [00:04:46] David: We are going to jump into the mix. We're going to ask people to jump onto the bandwagon with us and we're going to figure this out. And oh my gosh, what an unbelievable eight months it has been in learning and insights. And I can't wait to get into all the things that we've learned about the property management industry. [00:05:01] David: But that's really what we've been focusing on here the past eight months, right? So we started off with well hey, can the AI assist the va? Can it turn them into a super va? Is that what it's going to be? And, you know, some people were like, yay. And some people were like nay, you know? And so, and you know, because that human failure still was there, right? [00:05:21] David: And you know, what happens if they left? There was that inconsistency. And then it was like, all right, well what can the AI own? Right? What can it do? What can it perfect? And you know, can AI actually be the last employee that I ever hire? Right. That's really, that's a really cool thing to do. [00:05:39] David: But the property managing community had some really specific demands that they said that if this is going to be the last employee that I've had, it has to do this. And that's what I'm excited about our new technology 'cause it's doing those things. You know? [00:05:52] Jason: Yeah. And now you guys have made some big moves. I know, like I've, I have clients that we've sent over to you and they've shared some incredible stories. Like one client, I think he had 154 units or something like under management, and he said in the first day you're of turning on Vendoroo, like it closed out like 80 something work orders. [00:06:12] Jason: Yeah, like, it was crazy. Another client, they had a little more doors. They said it was like 50 something work orders were closed out in the first day of turning it on. And so, I mean, you're creating some dramatic stuff. Like this is a very different thing than what people are used to in maintenance. [00:06:27] David: Yeah. Yeah. And really what the exciting part about this, Jason, is that maintenance is actually really easy. And I know people laugh when I say that it's managing communications that is extremely difficult. Okay. Okay. Right, because you have, you know what AI told us about our industry over the last eight months is when we dove in with it and it took a step back and it said, whoa, you guys don't have a data problem here. [00:06:51] David: You guys have a emotion problem here. There's very specific categories of emotion that are in this space, right? Like, how do you build a technology that senses something? And I know this relates with property managers, 'cause I know this for myself. A property manager can walk into their office, sit down at their desk, and their spidey senses go off and they know something's wrong. [00:07:15] David: There's no screen that's telling them anything. There's no spreadsheet. They know something's off. Right. And so the AI is like, well, the statuses really don't matter that much to me based upon the feedback that I'm seeing from the property managers. Because the status and the communication all seem to be in order, but there's a disruption somewhere. [00:07:35] David: So I need to know about people's emotions. I need to understand about is the resident happy? Does the owner feel supported? Is the vendor being directed? And does the property manager believe that I can own the outcome for this? And it was really cool to start seeing its learning and understanding and picking up on these cues where, you know, people say that this is a data-driven industry. [00:07:55] David: It's really in an emotion driven industry.  [00:07:57] Jason: Oh yeah. It's a relationship and emotion industry for sure. Yeah. Yeah, big time.  [00:08:01] David: And it's really cool to see, and it's really started happening over this past last 60 days, the amount of residents, I was actually just looking at one before I jumped on here, that are like thanking the system, right? [00:08:15] David: Imagine that, like think of all of us that actually worked with the chat bot at like Verizon. I've never thanked that chatbot at Verizon for being their customer service. Right.  [00:08:25] Jason: And how do I get a representative? Representative. Representative!  [00:08:28] David: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Versus you seeing people, you know, seeing individuals saying to the, you know, saying to the Vendoroo maintenance coordinator, Hey, I really appreciate feeling supported and how fast you acted because you know, there's empathy that's inside of its law and learning. So I don't want to get too much into the details on there. But yeah, these are some of the exciting things that we're working on.  [00:08:47] Jason: I mean, empathy is the magic lubrication that makes everything better. [00:08:52] David: Yeah,  [00:08:52] Jason: I mean they, they've done studies. Teams, even in working in warehouses, are more productive if the team has a higher level of empathy. Yeah. And doctors perform better. Yeah. If there's a higher level of empathy, there's less malpractice suits, like empathetic reflection and empathy is a magical ingredient. [00:09:10] Jason: I coach clients to add that in during sales. Yeah. 'cause their close rate goes up dramatically. Yeah. Right. So yeah. So leveraging and like getting the AI to actually be empathetic in its communication. Yeah. When that's probably not a natural skill for a lot of maintenance coordinators to be empathetic. [00:09:26] David: It's not, it's not a natural skill for a lot of people in the maintenance industry. Right? Yes. Especially when you talk about burnout. People begin developing views of the rental community, right? Like, oh my gosh, they're calling again, and that empathy meter goes lower and lower and lower. [00:09:41] David: Yeah. As people have been in the industry longer. But isn't it great that you have an employee now that knows that, yeah, it's my duty, rain or shine, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 a year to always operate at the highest level of empathy? I never have a bad day. I never take a day off. [00:09:57] David: I'm never upset. I'm never short with somebody on the phone, never tired, never like, oh my gosh, Susan is calling me again. I'm going to let the phone just ring because I'm annoyed of talking to her. And it just is constantly hitting that same level of standard. And this is what's exciting to me, is that there are people that that have played around with this and have been a part of what I call the pain phase, right? [00:10:20] David: The pain phase is that understanding the way that agentic AI works, right? It's input in output. Input, output, right? The more that you're putting into it, the better the results are that you're going to get out of it, okay? Right. It's just like training an employee. So over the last eight months, what we've seen is that the community has trained this to be the level of a person that has now been working in the industry for five years. [00:10:46] David: In eight months. It's got five years of learning in eight months. Okay. Wow. In the next six to 12 months, we're probably looking at somebody that has 10 to 15 years understanding in the next six to 12 months and understand the level of type of tasks that it can do, especially getting into estimates and getting some other work. [00:11:04] David: And again, just you know, having empathy in my own life towards the people that jumped in that are like, what is this all about? Like, how does AI fail? Like, you know, there's still people that are involved and it was like this big like momentous train of like, you know, all these people were jumping on and giving ideas and people are in the loop and now it's weeding everything out and the AI stepping in and saying. [00:11:27] David: Hey, I appreciate all the input that you've given me. Thank you for all your effort. I'm now ready to step up to the plate and to own the outcome. Right. And that's what we're seeing at the NARPM show that's coming out. There's five AI tools. There's a master agent, five AI tools. And you know, I'll give you a couple of pieces here that, you know, we had feedback from our property managers like number one across the board. [00:11:50] David: A property manager said, if I'm hiring AI as my last employee, that has to work in my system. Yeah. Okay. Right. Like I don't want another, I don't want another technology. Yeah.  [00:11:59] Jason: I don't want a new system I got to get every vendor to use or a new system I got to get my team to use or figure out. We don't need another tool to make our lives more difficult. [00:12:08] Jason: No. They've got to use our stuff.  [00:12:09] David: They got to use, we have our existing stack. Yeah. So now the AI is fully integrated into all the most common PMS systems. You know, you have a cool chrome extension that you can download and there's a little yellow kangaroo right right there. And it's actually reading the work order that you're working on, and you can literally just ask it a question now and just being like, Hey, did anybody express frustration or concern on this work order? [00:12:32] David: Right? Because that's the emotion behind the status that you need to know. And it's like, yeah, two days ago Sally said that, you know, she was actually really frustrated about the multiple reschedules by this vendor. And it's like, great, that's a person I should be reaching out to and that's what I should be knowing that a status is never going to tell you. [00:12:47] David: Right? Yeah. It's in your slack, right? So if I have, if I'm on my phone, I'm talking to my employee and I'm laying in bed and I have a panic attack as a property manager, and I'm like, oh my gosh, did we take care of John's refrigerator and the office is closed? I can't get ahold of my employee. Yeah, you can. [00:13:03] David: Your employee works 24 7 now. Hey, can you give me an update on the refrigerator replacement at John's place? Yeah, it was scheduled this day. I contacted John. Everything's good to go. You know, go to sleep. You know, like, like that's the power. Full audit. Full syncing. So it's in your platform. That's really cool. [00:13:21] David: The other thing, it's got to be branded, right? This is a thing that we really learned about, like how important branding is to the community of property managers, right? Yeah. So the communications that go out have to be from your area code that's done. The emails that go out have to have like, you know, your company name and your logo on it. [00:13:39] David: The AI is doing that as well too. So that's being sent out, which is really cool. So people are feeling like, you know, that loyalty to brand is super important. And also do you know now that the AI can ask the residents to give a Google Review and we can link to the Google reviews and give you instant Google reviews to your page through the ai, which is cool, like how it's, it will know that if the success of a Google review is high on the way that the work order was done, that it's probably best to ask this person and it will send them a little thing. [00:14:11] David: Hey, can we get a feedback from you? And we link up to your Google review. And it posts that Google review to generate those 'cause we know those are super, super valuable to property managers. So that's actually going out today. That's kind of a little teaser there. That's the emails out now. [00:14:23] Jason: Nice. We'll have to get you to also connect it to our gather kudos links for clients 'cause then people can pick which review sites. So it diversifies the review profile.  [00:14:32] David: Love it. Love that. I'm going to hook you up with our guy Dotan. He's running that. He's one of our head of product. He's, actually out of Israel. [00:14:39] David: He's a amazing guy. I'd love to get you connected with him. Yeah. Cool. Let's do it. Cool. And then the biggest one too is like, I need a single point of contact. Right. And we knew that before there was a lot of people were still involved. There was a lot of oversight that was going on there, having that confusion and single point of contact. [00:14:56] David: Now it's in your phone, it's in your Slack, it's in your phone extension. It doesn't matter what's going on. You have one point of contact. It's your employee. You ask the question, get the answer, Jason, you can even ask for a change. You can even say, Hey, I want to change a vendor on a job and you'll see that the vendor gets changed for you in the system. [00:15:17] David: You can even say to your ai, and this is the big one: hey how do you triage this work order? And I want you to do this, or I want you to do that. And you just do it right through Slack or right through your PM chat and it makes the change for you. And now you have custom triage and all property managers have the ability to train their own AI for their company. [00:15:36] David: Think how cool that is. A person with 75 doors now, and the product that's being released has their own AI agent customized for their company, right? Yeah. Like, that's what happened over the last eight months, so you can see my excitement. There's been a lot of hard work in this. [00:15:54] David: Yeah, that's amazing. But this has been all the effort and a huge thank you out to everybody who's tried us, you know, even said that this wasn't for them at that point in time because those learnings went into what's going to make this product the best product in the property management space and is going to help people leverage sales and leverage efficiencies and blow their owners' minds away in ways that, that we have never thought about. [00:16:15] David: Oh yeah.  [00:16:16] Jason: Yeah. So I know like initially when you rolled this out, a lot of people were nervous about AI and you guys had kind of a human layer in between the AI and any communication Yeah, initially. Yeah. And so there was like, they had like a reps and a lot of people associated, oh, I've got this rep. [00:16:33] Jason: Yeah. You know, Steven or whatever is my rep or Pedro and I've got Pedro and like, oh no, what if Pedro leaves? And they were associating with that while the AI is really doing the crux of the work. Right. And so you guys have shifted away from even that now the AI is directly communicating with people. [00:16:52] Jason: Correct? Yeah.  [00:16:53] David: Yeah. So let's talk about that. So, definitely, so in the beginning there was like, we all had like lack of trust. We believed what it was going to do, but it was like we had a ton of people still trying, like, you know, using qualified VAs, training them. Like, you know, like, you know, if it fails, like, you know, you have to have a person stepped in and so let's talk about that. [00:17:12] David: So, you know, it was definitely that human layer. And let's talk about where we're at today. It is very clear to us, and the one thing that separates us from everybody is we still believe that humans are super important in this process. Okay? Yeah. And where humans are very important in this process are going to be when the AI says, Hey, I need you to make a phone call to this person for me, right? [00:17:35] David: Hey, I've reached out to this vendor three times and they haven't responded yet. I need you to give a phone call to see what's going on. Right? Hey, I need you to recruit a vendor for me. I need you to reach out and do a recruitment for the vendor. For me. Hey, this owner is asking questions about this estimate. [00:17:51] David: I need you to give a call for me. So the AI is basically able, on a standard work order, the AI can handle 95% of the workflow, no problem. Work order comes in, gets assigned to the resident. It gets out to the vendor. It's under the NTE not to exceed. It's great. The work gets done, the resident uploads its photos, the AI says to the resident, are you happy? [00:18:14] David: Everyone's good. It closes the work order out. Cool. Right. And then if a human...  [00:18:19] Jason: and how is it communicating with the tenant and with the vendor typically? [00:18:24] David: Yep. So, it's very clear that and this isn't a surprise to anybody. Everybody loves text messages, right? Yeah. I mean, that's just, it's just what it is. [00:18:32] David: You literally, like, people will get a phone call and they won't pick up and the text will come back and like text back. Yeah, text me. What do you need? Yeah. Text me here. But, so here's the things that people don't see behind the scenes that we'll talk about. So the complexity that went into. [00:18:51] David: Mapping out how to allow vendors... so a vendor could have like 20 jobs, right? And we don't want to send him like a code that he has to text for every work order so that it links to the right work order. Like what guy wants to do that? Okay. Like that's not how he works. So we figured out how to allow a vendor through AI just to use his regular phone and text anything about this thing. And it's understanding it and it's mapping it, it's routing it to all those work orders because we knew that in order for this to be the last employee somebody would have to handle, it also means that the vendor has to be happy and the same for the resident. [00:19:30] David: They can just text that they have multiple work orders. It understands what work order it's going to. If it's not quite sure, I would ask them, Hey, is this question about this work order? And they say, yeah. And so there's not like, again, codes and links and things that they have to do. It has to be seamless if they're working with a person. [00:19:46] David: So yeah, text message is massive. Email is second, and then phone is third for sure.  [00:19:51] Jason: Got it. So is your AI system calling people yet or you or telling the property manager to make the phone call?  [00:19:58] David: Yeah. People are okay with. If they're calling in like our new front desk agent, which if a person calls in and they want to get information about a listing or if they want to get information about a work order or something like that, or, you know, they're okay with getting that type of information. [00:20:13] David: Yeah. But they are, it is very clear that they are not okay with AI calling them when they're asking for an update on a work order like that. Like that line in the sand very clear. Yeah. And so we have people on on the team. That are constantly monitoring into ai, giving feedback, hitting improvement. [00:20:31] David: I want everybody to know there is not a work order that is taking place that is not touched by a human at least twice.  [00:20:38] Jason: Okay.  [00:20:39] David: Okay. Right.  [00:20:40] Jason: So there's a little, there's some oversight there. There there's, you're watching this, there are humans involved  [00:20:45] David: And then the ai will when it hits certain fail points, right? [00:20:51] David: It then escalates those things up to what we call the human in the loop, right? So there's an AI assistant, we there's people now that we're training a whole new generation of people that are no longer going to be maintenance coordinators. They're AI assistants now, right? And so when the AI says, Hey, this work order is not going down the path that I think it should go to be successful. [00:21:12] David: I'm escalating this up to a human, and so now as a property manager, not only am I getting this AI agent workflow that's standardizing the empathy and the workflows and all the stuff that we talked about in the communications, I also now get a fractional employee that when the AI says, Hey, I need help, I already have an employee that it can reach out to that can make that phone call or call the vendor. [00:21:36] David: But it's also monitoring the AI for me on top of it. So yes, there is, and that's one of the big thing that separates us apart is that the platform comes with what we call a human in the loop, an expert in the loop and so we're training the first generation of AI assistants in the property management industry. [00:21:55] David: Yep.  [00:21:56] Jason: Got it. So the AI maintenance coordinator. Has human assistance. Yep. Underneath it.  [00:22:02] David: And before it was the other way around where Yeah. The AI was assisting the human right. And now the humans are assisting the ai. That's what's happened in the last...  [00:22:11] Jason: that may be the future of all of our roles. [00:22:12] Jason: So,  [00:22:13] David: If you're not reading articles and studying up on this I think that's going to catch you by surprise pretty quickly. Yeah. Learn how to write prompts. I'll tell everybody right now. Yes.  [00:22:21] Jason: Yeah. Interesting. So, now what about this, you know, there's the uncanny, you know, sort of stage where people get a little bit nervous about AI and what do they call it? The uncanny valley or something like this, or right where it gets, it's so close to human that it becomes creepy. And there's some people that have fear about this, that are concerned. You're going to have a lot of late, you know, adopters that are like resistant. "I'll never do ai." [00:22:49] Jason: What would you say to somebody when you get on a sales call and they're like, well, I'm really nervous about this AI stuff, you know, and they just, they don't get it.  [00:22:57] David: Yeah.  [00:22:58] Jason: I'm sure there's people listening right now. They're like, oh man, AI is going to kill us all and it's going to take over the world and it's going to take our jobs. [00:23:05] Jason: And they think it's evil.  [00:23:06] David: Yeah. Yeah. I, and you know, I really want to hear that fear and I want to like, again, have empathy towards that. 'cause I do understand that fear of change causes people to get... Change in general. Yes. Right. It's like, whoa, I like everything the way it's going to be. Right. And we are historically in one of those phases of like, you know, the industrial revolution, the renaissance, like the automobile from horse. [00:23:34] David: Like, this is what is taking place. This is, this will be written down in history. It's massive change. It's a massive change. Massive. So what I would say to them, and not to, not from a way of fear. But to inspire them is there are a lot of hungry entrepreneurs out there that are embracing this head on. [00:23:57] David: Yeah. That are pushing the boundaries and the limits to be able to bring insights and customer service to their clients at a much higher level. And if you want to compete in this new AI economy. I would definitely encourage you to understand and get in and start investing in yourself now. But understand that investing in AI means having some pain threshold. [00:24:21] David: Like you got to get in, like you, you need to be able to give the feedback. You need to understand that if it falls short, do you have to be able to give it the time and the energy and the reward and the payoff of what I'm seeing for property managers who've embraced that when they're sitting there and they're going, I don't touch maintenance at all anymore. Yeah, it's wild. Right? And those are the people that in the beginning of this relationship, and there's a few that come to my head, are the ones that were sending me emails constantly saying, David, this is failing me. I believe in this, but this is failing me. And as my technology partner, I know that you're going to help us get this better. [00:24:58] David: And there is, you know, I have this word down that struggle equals great con conversation, right? Like, and so they had a struggle and that opened up a great conversation and because of that, their technology and the technology is getting better. So yeah, I think that from a personal point of view in this industry, one thing that I want to solve with AI is I think that we can all say that over the past 15 years, we've probably yelled at a lot of vendors or yelled at a lot of VAs or yelled at a lot of people. Let's start yelling at the ai. And then hopefully that the AI will actually eliminate the need for us to ever have to yell at anybody again because it knows us. [00:25:36] David: Yeah. It never fails us.  [00:25:38] Jason: You know? It really is amazing. I mean, your company is creating freedom for the business owner from being involved in maintenance. Yeah. Really?  [00:25:46] David: Yeah.  [00:25:47] Jason: And it just, and they get used to that pretty quickly. Like maintenance is just running and they're like, yeah. It frees up so much head space for them to focus on growth. [00:25:56] Jason: It gives them a whole bunch of like just greater capacity. Yeah. So they feel like, yeah, we could handle adding any number of doors now and we know we can still fulfill and do a good job.  [00:26:07] David: Yeah. Fixed cost scaling. Right? That's a term that we came up with is now that you know that I have a price per door that will cover all my maintenance. So if I went in and brought on 75 doors, I know that I don't have to go out and hire another employee. The system just grows with it and I know exactly what my margin is for all those doors. Right. And as we know previous, before fixed cost scaling a property managers is like, I have enough people. [00:26:32] David: I don't have enough people. Someone quit, someone didn't quit. My profit margins are good. My profit margins are bad. Yeah. And now with these AI tools. You know, you have your front desk employee, you have your maintenance coordinator, you have these fixed cost scales, and now somebody calls you up and says, Hey, I want you to take on 25 doors, and you're like, I have the resource resources for maintenance, which is, we know is 80% of the workload already. I don't have to go out and hire another maintenance coordinator 'cause the system just grows with me, which is cool.  [00:27:00] Jason: So one of the things you shared at DoorGrow Live and you're our top sponsor for the upcoming... Can't wait for DoorGrow Live, can't wait to, so we're really excited to have you back so. [00:27:10] Jason: Everybody make sure you're at DoorGrow Live if you want. Our theme this year is innovating the future of property management. And we're bringing, we're going to be showcasing, innovating pricing structures that are different than how property managers have typically historically priced, that allow you to lower your operational costs and close more deals more easily at a higher price point. [00:27:30] Jason: We're, we'll be showcasing a three tier hybrid pricing model that we've innovated here at DoorGrow, and we've got clients using it. It's been a game changer. We're going to be sharing other cool things about the future hiring systems, et cetera. Right. So you guys will also be there showcasing the future. [00:27:46] Jason: One of the things you shared previously that really kind of struck me as you showed, you did some research and you showed the typical cost. Per unit that most companies had just to cover and deal with maintenance. Yeah. And and then what you were able to get it down to.  [00:28:03] David: Yeah.  [00:28:04] Jason: And that alone was just like a bit of a mind blowing. [00:28:07] Jason: Could you just share a little bit of numbers here?  [00:28:09] David: Yeah. So one of the first things that we had to do when we started way back in the day is figure out well. Like, like what's the impact of AI going to be us from like a cost perspective, right? Is it a huge change? And so we went out on a big survey mission and we were surveying property managers and asking them, what's your cost per door for managing maintenance? [00:28:30] David: How much do you spend every door to manage maintenance? Now the first thing is less than 1% of property managers knew what that cost was. Sure.  [00:28:37] Jason: Oh, sure. Right. Because, but then they got to figure out, oh, we got a maintenance coordinator and we've got these people doing phone calls and they cost this, and yeah, it's complicated. [00:28:45] David: It's complicated. So we built a calculator. Okay. And then people could start adding in that information out into the calculator, and the average person was around $13 and 50 cents a door.  [00:28:56] Jason: Okay. Okay.  [00:28:57] David: Wow. Right, right. So that was where the average person was, somewhere in the low twenties. Yeah. [00:29:01] David: And others were actually pretty good. Like, I'd say like, you know, some of the good ones that we saw were maybe around like, you know, 10, $11 a door or something along that line.  [00:29:09] Jason: They probably had a large portfolio would be my guess.  [00:29:12] David: Yeah. And also I think a lot of it's just like, you know, I don't know if they were still accounting for all their software and everything that they had. [00:29:19] David: Maybe they're not factoring everything. Yeah. No, I think if we really dug in, it'd be different. So now we know that, you know, the base package of what people are getting in. The average cost of what people are paying for 24 7 services that's emergencies around the clock is about $7 and 50 cents a door, right? [00:29:37] David: So right off the bat in AI's first swing, it said we cut the cost in half. Yeah. Okay. Right. So 50% reduction. I mean, to me as an owner, a 50% reduction in cost. That's like. You know, alarms and celebration going off, you know? For sure. And then, yeah.  [00:29:55] Jason: And that's, if everything just stayed the same, like it was still the same level of quality, cutting in half would be a solid win right there. [00:30:03] Jason: Yeah.  [00:30:03] David: Yeah. That's just like status quo stuff. And now what, with the release of the new Vendoroo product that, that's actually being announced here today. The email's going out to all of our existing clients of all the new features that are coming out now, we're starting to see that. You know that quality is now increasing to where if you were to go out and hire that person, you may have to be spending, you know, 55,000 or $65,000 a year. [00:30:29] David: Right? So now it's like saying, okay, if we can get as good as what these people are using for their VAs right, and we know what that cost is, and they're saying that's, you know, that's what their factors is. Well, what happens in the next six to 12 months when this is a seasoned person that you would've to pay $85,000 a year to? [00:30:45] David: Right. Yeah. And right, because they have knowledge of. Estimates and knowledge of vendor routing and knowledge of, you know, it can handle...  [00:30:53] Jason: you've invested so much time into them, so much attention. They know your properties and know your portfolio. They know the vendors. Like you've invested so much into this person that now they sort of have you by the balls so that they're like, Hey, I want 80 k or I walk.  [00:31:06] David: Yeah.  [00:31:06] Jason: You're like, you've got to come up with it.  [00:31:08] David: Yeah.  [00:31:09] Jason: Right. You've got to do it.  [00:31:10] David: Yeah.  [00:31:10] Jason: And you know, because that's not easy to create. And a lot of people, in order to have a good maintenance coordinator, they need a veteran of the industry. Veteran of industry. [00:31:19] Jason: They need somebody that's been doing this a long time.  [00:31:21] David: Yeah.  [00:31:22] Jason: And that's really hard to find.  [00:31:24] David: Yes. It's extremely hard to find as we know. One of the things that I think that we're doing for this industry is we're actually preserving knowledge that I don't think is necessary getting passed down. [00:31:33] David: Yeah. You know, there's a lot less people that I think are as handy as they once were in the Americas and so we have a lot of that knowledge. Like, you know, we know that the average age of an electrician is in the sixties, the average age of a plumber's in the sixties. And these guys, you know, they have wealth of knowledge that it can troubleshoot anything that's going on in a house. [00:31:54] David: And so to be able to try to preserve some of that, so maybe if a person does come in, you know, maybe there's some knowledge sharing along the lines. But let's take it even in another step forward Jason that in the future, you know, the AI is going to know the location of the hot water tank in that house. [00:32:10] David: It's going to then add it automatically to the system, like. It's going to know more knowledge than they will because it's going to have maps of every single property that's all currently sitting inside of, you know, that maintenance coordinator's head, right? And so it's going to, it's going to actually know more than them, you know. [00:32:26] Jason: Yeah. That's wild. Yeah, it is. Absolutely. It's the future. Cool. Well, you're rolling out a bunch of new features. You're announcing these today. You've told me a little bit, but why don't you tell the listeners what's changing, what's new, what innovations have come out? What are you guys launching? [00:32:41] David: Yeah. Exciting. Yeah. So, the biggest one I think is, which is the most exciting is, is Resiroo, which is the first one that actually handles all the communications with the resident and does the triage and troubleshooting. First one of what are you talking about? So we have our products. [00:32:57] David: So you have these AI tools, right? These agents. Right.  [00:33:00] Jason: And so, you know, every, so think of them like different sort of people?  [00:33:04] David: Skill sets. Yeah. Different person. Okay. Exactly. And so that's when you come and see our display at the NARPM conference, you'll actually will see these five agents kind of in their work desk and in their environments, kind of cool. [00:33:15] David: Okay. Able to see them right. So the coolest part about that one is we're doing a major product you know, update on that for not only the knowledge base, but we're actually turning that over to the company. We were talking about this a little bit before, and now they own their own AI agent and they can customize it into how they want it to ask questions or the type of questions and the mindsets when it's triaging stuff. [00:33:41] David: Triaging work orders for their portfolio. Like super cool. So fully customizable to your company, right?  [00:33:49] Jason: So now sometimes the more humans get involved, the more they mess stuff up.  [00:33:54] David: Yes. We make sure they don't mess it up. So everyone's going to learn how to write prompts and they'll submit it into us. [00:33:59] David: And we have a great team of AI engineers that when that knowledge base is written or what they're doing. We will ensure that it is put in so that it actually produces the desire outcome, right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's a very exciting one. The second one that I'm that I think is so cool, do you know that only 10% of all estimates get approved by the owner without one or multiple questions? [00:34:23] David: Because owners really struggle with trust when it comes to estimates. Like 10%. Like, that's a really bad number, I felt as the industry that owners only believe us one out of 10 times. Like that's the way I took that. Yeah. Right. And so, Owneroo is what I coined inside, is the estimate of the future. [00:34:41] David: That really was looking in understanding like what was, what questions was the owner asking when they were rejecting a bid that that we could proactively ask the answer for them to help guide them to understanding the value in this estimate that they're looking at in historical context of the property. [00:35:00] David: How many other people have experienced this issue? Like, like there's a whole bunch of factors that should go into an estimate and an estimate should no longer be like, here's a cost from Frank. Right? Like, like that was like, like that was...  [00:35:14] Jason: here's what Frank said it is. Yeah. Like that was like from the 1940s. [00:35:17] Jason: That's good. How do I trust that?  [00:35:18] David: How do I trust that? That was from the forties and we're still...  [00:35:21] Jason: how much went into this decision? Was this just out of the blue, like pulled out of your ass or is this like legit?  [00:35:27] David: Yeah. Yeah. What's the, you know, we live in a data-driven world, so what's the intellect behind this estimate? [00:35:33] David: And so I'm really excited about Owneroo, which is going to be the new standard for the way the estimates are created. We have the front desk agent which is coming out. So, that one is going to handle phone calls that are coming in, be able to talk about available listings, actual general questions about leases route phone calls over to property managers for you. [00:35:54] David: So again. Very human-like interaction, great AI voice. Actually. We feel it's going to be the best in the industry. So a person's calling in, just like they're calling your office able to handle all those front desk things. We, we have the PM chat, which is now the employee which is fully integrated into all of your systems. [00:36:14] David: It's in Slack. That's your employee that you get to talk to. We believe that if you're going to hire somebody, they should be inside of your communication channels. You have the Google Chrome extension that it's on right inside your AppFolio or your buildium or your Rentvine software that you can ask and talk to it. [00:36:31] David: So, yeah, so we have a lot of exciting products that have come out. And then of course the backbone of all of them in the middle is Vendoroo, which handles all the scheduling, all the communications. You know, a resident asks for an update, responds to them, an owner asks for an update, it responds to them. [00:36:48] David: And you know, it handles actually the body of the work order. So you have those five tools, we believe are what the property management industry said. If you are going to give me an employee, this is what the employee has to be. This is what makes up that employee. So we say that these tools, these agents were actually built by the property management industry. [00:37:08] David: And that excites me because if you're not building AI tools from working with your partners, from being on the ground floor with them and using the data and building tools based upon the data and their pain points and their failures, buyer beware. If somebody's coming to you and saying, Hey, we figured this all out in the lab. [00:37:25] David: Come use it. Yeah. Right. Buyer beware.  [00:37:29] Jason: Yeah. So you guys connect with Slack. They can communicate through Slack, but it slack's a paid tool. Have you guys considered Telegram? I love Telegram Messenger.  [00:37:37] Jason: Alright. Could you do that? Write it down. Telegram Messenger is like the iMessage tool that works on every device. [00:37:44] Jason: It's free. It's one of the most secure, it's not owned or controlled by Facebook. Like, WhatsApp, like, yeah. But WhatsApp might be a close second, but we use Telegram internally, so I love Telegram.  [00:37:58] David: We'll definitely take that into, into consideration for sure. Yeah, check it  [00:38:02] Jason: out. Because I, what I love is the voice message feature and I can just listen to my team and others at like high speed, but internal communications and it's free for everybody, which is great. [00:38:12] Jason: So, yeah.  [00:38:13] David: Yeah. I think a lot, for a lot of people it was like you know, who was Vendoroo in the beginning and Vendoroo was like the team of like people that were trying to figure out like how is AI going to work in this industry? [00:38:26] David: How is it going to solve the needs of our property management partners? And this is why I say to everybody, if you thought about Vendoroo, if you came in and the experience wasn't great with Vendoroo, if you're one of our existing clients that has been with us and you're and you're still moving forward, and we thank you so much for your dedication to this, the Vendoroo product, everything that we've done, everything that we worked at is being showcased at the NARPM broker owner. The email's going out today. This is who Vendoroo is. We are a team that is a technology partner for the property management industry that is helping building meaningful AI tools, specifically by demand, by our industry to help us show value and to preserve this great industry. [00:39:09] David: For the future in this new AI economy, right? Like we need to step up. We have clients that are adding doors left and right because they're showing their clients that they use an AI maintenance system and their clients are like, this is what I expect from a property management in this community. [00:39:24] David: Right? And again, Owneroo, that estimate, we believe that in the future. Like, like owners are going to say like, I'm not approving an estimate unless it's like the estimate of the future, right? Like, like that's the new standard. So you got to know what the new standards are and you got to get technology that are going to help you compete with those new standards that will be in your community and are will be in your community in the next week, the next two weeks. [00:39:46] David: And definitely some really cool products in the next six months.  [00:39:49] Jason: All right. Well, yeah, I'm really excited to see what you guys have been able to create so far. So yeah, it's pretty awesome. Yeah. All right. Well David, it's been awesome having you on the show. Sounds like you guys are really innovating the future. Everybody come to DoorGrow Live. David, are you going to be at that one? I will be there. All right, so you can come meet David in person. [00:40:08] Jason: We've got some amazing people that are going to be at this. We've got technology people. There's a gentleman there, one of the vendors they created another really cool tool, but he had a hundred million dollars exit, you know, in a previous business, like there's really amazing entrepreneurs and people at this event, so come to DoorGrow Live, get your tickets, and if you do, we have just decided that we're going to give out to anybody that registers. [00:40:34] Jason: You can pick from one of our free bonuses that are well worth the price of the ticket. Or coming or anything in and of itself, including our pricing secrets training that goes over a three tier hybrid pricing model or our sales secrets training, which goes over how we're helping property managers crush it and closing more deals more easily at a higher price point. [00:40:55] Jason: And reputation secrets, which are helping our clients get way more positive reviews by leveraging the psychology and the law of reciprocity and getting the majority of their tenants in order to give them positive feedback online. Maybe some others. So you'll be able to pick from these bonuses one of these that you might like and that's our free, most incredible free gift ever that we'll give to each person that registers for DoorGrow Live. [00:41:19] Jason: So.  [00:41:20] David: Cool. Awesome man. Always great to see you. Looking forward to seeing you at DoorGrow Live and love that you guys are working on pricing because AI is going to make people think different about pricing. It's going to be way more efficient, so you guys are ahead of the curve on that. Great job, Jason. [00:41:33] Jason: Awesome. All right, so how can they check out Vendoroo, David?  [00:41:36] David: Just visit, Vendoroo.ai, go to the website, request a demo with one of our great sales reps, and yeah they'd love to help you out. See all the new products, see how far it's come. And again, we thank everybody from the bottom of our hearts for all their effort, people who've tried us out. [00:41:52] David: Come back and see what you built and yeah. Come check us out at Vendoroo.  [00:41:57] Jason: Got it. Go check out Vendoroo, it's vendor. If you know how to spell that, V-E-N-D-O-R-O-O dot A-I, go check it out. All right? And if you're a property management entrepreneur, you want to add doors, you want to make your business scalable, you want to get out of the day to day, you want to increase the capacity so your company could easily handle another 200 plus doors without having to make any significant systems changes, reach out to us at DoorGrow. We will help you figure it out. So until next time to our mutual growth. Bye everyone. 

As property managers, you know how important communication is. Building solid relationships and creating trust is crucial in the industry, especially when trying to bring on new clients and doors. In this episode of the Property Management Growth Show, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Sam Wakefield from Close it Now to talk about how you can level up your sales game to close more deals at a higher price point. You'll Learn [00:54] Vendor and Property Manager Relationships [09:43] Why You Attract Cheapo Clients [15:33] Building Trust in Sales [21:14] Shifting Perception: It's Not A, It's B [27:43] Learning to Improve Your Sales at DoorGrow Live 2025 Quotables “Truly all that sells is just communication.” “The second you start to develop a trend in your life, look internally because you are attracting exactly who you are.” “If we don't build the right culture, it's on us as a business owner.” “As business owners, we want to not give up big chunks of our life for just money. We want to be able to have something scalable.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript [00:00:00] Sam: A lot of times property management companies think all the companies are the same, so they're looking for maybe cheaper, whoever's cheapest, a cheaper price. [00:00:07] Sam: But then what they get is a company that doesn't communicate and doesn't show up when they say they're going to, and it's really the old adage, you get what you pay for.  [00:00:14] Jason: All right. I am trying a new platform today. This is Jason Hull and I am a property management growth expert. If you're not familiar with me, I help grow and scale property management companies and I am really good at that. And so our company's DoorGrow and we are the world leaders of growing and scaling property management businesses. [00:00:35] Jason: I've helped thousands of property managers do that. And today my guest is Sam Wakefield. Hanging out here with Sam. Sam, welcome to the show.  [00:00:44] Sam: Thanks for having me on, man. I'm glad to be here.  [00:00:46] Jason: Hey, good to have you. So, I'm really excited to get into this. We had some really nice dialogue back and forth. You coach. [00:00:54] Jason: Well, I'll let you tell. What group, category of people do you coach and you help with them with sales and closing more deals, so.  [00:01:01] Sam: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So we do sales training and basically sales systems, whole operation systems within companies, but mostly sales focused for home services. So everything from HVAC, plumbing, electrical, and then even outside of that. Garage doors, or you name it. If someone improves a home, then we help the communication side of all of those companies.  [00:01:27] Jason: Got it. So in my industry, property management people would call those vendors. That's usually what they call them. They're like, "these are the vendors." And so we thought it was fun. I went on your podcast, we had this really fun dialogue. [00:01:39] Jason: I highly recommend you go check out Sam's episode with Jason Hull and go check that out. We were going back and forth because we had done a survey each to our audiences, like what's frustrating about HVAC companies and what's frustrating about property management companies. Right. And just seeing the disconnect that existed there. [00:01:56] Jason: Which was interesting. So, before we get into this, I want to read a quick message from our sponsor. This episode's sponsored by KRS SmartBooks. Do you have properties manage, and zero time for bookkeeping headaches? KRS SmartBooks is your secret weapon. They specialize in finances for busy property managers like you, with 15 plus years of real estate knowhow and skills in AppFolio, Yardi, and more imagine monthly reports magically appearing, and zero accounting stress. Sound good? Head to krsbooks.com to book your free discovery call, integrity, quality, and a dash of bookkeeping brilliance, that's KRS SmartBooks, and that's K as in Kansas, R as in Rogers, S as in Sam. Sam. All right, so cool. Now let's get into this. [00:02:45] Jason: So we're going to talk about closing deals, but why don't you give us my audience a little bit of background. How did you get into sales and then starting your own company, helping people with sales, and like, how'd you how did Close it Now come to be?  [00:03:00] Sam: Yeah, for sure. Thanks for that question. So, I've spent almost 20 years now in home services. [00:03:05] Sam: Most of my time has been in HVAC. I've done solar. I've done a lot of different trades over the years and, you know, so I launched the Close it Now company in 2019 because I really just recognized a place where there was not a lot of modern training because truly all that sells is just communication. [00:03:26] Sam: You know, it's how do we communicate clearer and in a way where we can educate so somebody can understand, one, what we're talking about, and two, why they should care and how it's going to make a difference in their life. So at the essence of that, so I was looking for some more modern training for my people at my company that I had at the time, and I didn't find anything out there. [00:03:48] Sam: So I just said, well, now we have a space for, you know, I have communication skills. I can train people. So that's when I launched the company in 2019 and so much of my career built up to that point of, and specifically how it affects here and why I'm here today. You know, I've worked with so many property management companies and individuals across 20 years of doing this. Yeah. So I've definitely learned a lot of best practices and a lot of the things not to do, you know? Got it. I all own my mistakes as well as, you know, coming across maybe property managers that I wouldn't work with again. Right. Yeah. So from all of that experience, you know, I started the training company, so I work with those home service companies to communicate better. [00:04:33] Sam: You know, a lot of it is, you know, of course, working directly with homeowners. But also there's a huge portion of all of those companies that, you know, rely on it and need property management companies to, you know, really help them stay in business and in turn they can turn around and, you know, help those property management companies to efficiently take care of properties. [00:04:58] Sam: But there's always seems to be this kind of struggle of, you know, that back and forth. So that's obviously why we're here today is a big part of that. But that's some of my history. I've been doing it 20 years. I started Close it Now six years or in, coming up on... yeah, April this year, next month is six years anniversary. [00:05:16] Sam: Nice. Of the company. And it's been a fun ride and we've definitely helped lots and lots of organizations to you know, to grow in a way.  [00:05:24] Jason: You're helping them close it now. All right. Yeah. Got it. All right. So you're just, you're helping these vendors close more deals, right? [00:05:31] Jason: So, property managers, I think would love to hear. You're on the other side of this relationship between property managers and vendors. What have you seen and what's the general feedback that you're noticing of the property management industry? What's kind of the vendor's perspective? [00:05:46] Jason: Because I know property managers, they get frustrated with vendors, right? They're like, "oh, the vendors like say you need something when you don't and like they don't like, it's difficult to reach them or this or whatever." Right. What are some of the complaints and gripes about property management companies? [00:06:03] Sam: Yeah. Complaints and gripes about property management companies. One of the big ones is, a lot of it is kind of the same thing is lack of communication. Okay. That's always one of the biggest complaints that comes up is, you know, we will get, you know, say someone, a property manager will call in for us to go evaluate a property. [00:06:21] Sam: We'll take an air conditioning issue or something like that, so we'll show up and then we're trying to call ahead. There's no clear information was given on who to call ahead to. Then we show up to the appointment, maybe the tenant's there, maybe not. A lot of times they're not there. [00:06:36] Sam: Okay. Then we can get ahold of the property manager to even get in the place. So now we're like dancing around in the circle of, okay, who do we contact? You get frustrated, move on to the next call, then the property manager calls and "Well, why'd you leave? Somebody was there." [00:06:50] Sam: Well, nobody was there. And so all of this just seems to happen very often. [00:06:55] Sam: Too often. Yeah. So it creates a stereotype. When the stereotype is created, that means of course there's a reason for it. Yeah. And so this is one of the big ones is the lack of communication. And I know that I've heard that the other direction as well. But so that's one of the things I hear the most. [00:07:11] Jason: Yeah. Got it. Yeah, so I'm sure when a vendor finds a property manager that does communicate effectively that there's clarity in that communication happening, and they've got good systems in place. The tenant's there, the tenant understands what's going on. Everybody's informed. Then those can be really great relationships to have. [00:07:34] Sam: Absolutely. Yeah. Those are, you know, the last the last organization I was at, I was with them, I was a sales manager and trainer for six years there. And I went through about 18 different property management companies to find two to three that were worth working with. Wow. And that was, you know, just sadly. We were always open to when a property management company came to us and we're like, "Hey, we, you know, we need you to do some work. We're looking for a new vendor." We're like, "sure. Absolutely. We'll try you out as well as you're trying us out." Right. But sadly, you know, the two or three that we did find great relationships with. They were fantastic relationships because yeah, we, you know, part of my ethics is our team was like, we will show up on time no matter what. [00:08:19] Sam: Right? We always do what we say. We will never, you know, recommend something that's not verifiable from our, you know, from our testing. We're not going to just guess at this because we're not guessing with anybody's, you know? Yeah. Investment. And at the same time when we, you know, say we're going to do the work, we do the work, and we show up to do the work, we say we're going to. [00:08:43] Sam: So that was my ethics statement I always led with. And then basically I would ask the property management company, can I expect the same thing from you guys? Right? And sure enough, the second that we met in the middle and said, yes, this is how we want to do business, those relationships were always the very best ones because sure, were we a few more dollars than the other contractor down the street? Sure. Yes. But we showed up when we said we were going to and we did the right work right the first time. And so, right. That's a big part of that disconnect, I think, is it seems like so many you know, a lot of times property management companies think all the companies are the same, so they're looking for maybe cheaper, whoever's cheapest, a cheaper price. [00:09:22] Sam: But then what they get is a company that doesn't communicate and doesn't show up when they say they're going to, and. It's really the old adage, you get what you pay for.  [00:09:30] Jason: You know, property managers have the same sort of problem is that a lot of people that are looking for a property manager are just looking for the cheapest price. [00:09:38] Jason: And they hate that. They're like, "we're not all the same." Right. So I, yeah, I think it's really important. I think this is dictated by the morals, the ethics, and the values of the business owner. It's always a top down thing. And so if the business owner is a cheapo, they attract cheapo clients and they deal with vendors through this cheapo lens, and this is where there's going to be a lot of mess and a lot of communication issues, and a lot of times the business owner, and this goes for any business and any industry, has a blind spot to the fact that they're cheap. But they're, you know, you're a cheapo if you're the person that's always looking for the stupid coupon code every time you buy everything online, you're always like hunting for that like. I don't have time to do that. [00:10:21] Jason: Like that's a massive waste of my time to go find, save 10% on some stupid a hundred dollars thing online, right? Right. Like, Ooh, I'm searching around. Right. Oh, I saved $10 even though I could have made a hundred thousand dollars. Like if I just like built something awesome, right? So I think there's a mindset issue is that these property managers or vendor business owners are not valuing their time enough. [00:10:45] Jason: If you value your time, you value other people's time. You then show up on time. You then like try to make sure, like your schedule is tight, you want to make sure your schedule is full. Like you, because you value your time and you feel that it's important. And if you really value your time enough as a person, you get things like assistance. [00:11:03] Jason: You get team members, like you get support because your time is so valuable that you want to go buy other people's time because it's less valuable than your time. Right, and this is how we scale our businesses over time is we are buying other people's time that are like they're willing to trade and give up their life chunks of their life for money. [00:11:24] Jason: And as business owners, we want to not give up big chunks of our life for just money. We want to be able to have something scalable. And so I think there's a mindset thing that we have to not be cheap. We have to operate with integrity, and then our team members need to have these values instilled in them, and if we don't build the right culture, it's on us as a business owner. [00:11:45] Jason: And if we don't build the right culture, we then don't have longevity in our business. We don't get return business, we don't get return clients. We don't get to have that really good vendor to continue to work with. We don't get to have that property owner continue to want to work with us, right? [00:12:00] Jason: Because we have showcased that we are not on top of things, or that we don't have the right values or that we don't have healthy mindset. And so I feel like. At the foundation of everything. It always comes back to mindset. A lot of times  [00:12:13] Sam: I a hundred percent agree with that. It, you know, it's funny that you're kind of started this conversation going down this path. [00:12:19] Sam: This is something that's been a very basically a soapbox for me, a big hot button. Yeah. You know, when I'm coaching... [00:12:26] Sam: jump on that soapbox, Sam. Let's go.  [00:12:27] Sam: Yeah. When I'm coaching and training people lately, especially at this last week especially... yeah. You know, I'm training people with sales and that type of focus, and they, of course, people always come to me, "Hey, how do I overcome these sales objections?" [00:12:43] Sam: You know, somebody says, "I want to get three bids, or somebody says, your price is too high, I want to shop around, or I need to think about it." Yeah. And instead of just going straight to, "well, here's the word track and how to handle these objections." Yeah. We always start with: anytime that you find a trend in your life, [00:13:00] Sam: so if you're getting the same consistent objection, say somebody's getting every single time they get to the end of their appointment and the homeowner or whoever they're talking to says, "I want to think about it." It's like the second you start to develop a trend in your life, look internally because you are attracting exactly who you are. [00:13:17] Sam: I would be willing to bet that person does the same thing when they shop. So then no wonder you're getting every single one of your clients is telling you, "I want to think about it." Or if when you shop, do you ask for say, "oh, I've got to get some three bids on this thing. I got to look around." Yeah. Well, no wonder the people you're selling to always have to get three bids because we attract who we are. Yeah. And it starts right here in the mind. And it's incredible how that works.  [00:13:43] Jason: Yeah. because if we're anxious, if we have that energetic sort of anxiety of that, like things are, it's expensive, and we go into that trying to sell it to somebody. Then they can feel that and we present it differently. And so we're like, "here's the price." And like, yeah, and it's worth it. And they can just, there's so many little subtle clues they pick up on that, Hey, this seems a little high. And because sometimes like if you're presenting to somebody and they're not what I call a cheapo, there's three types of buyers, cheapos, normals, and premiums I call them. [00:14:16] Jason: And normals are like, you typically like 60%. They're like the majority, 61%. The smallest group are usually the premium buyers, supposedly. But the idea is this: if you're a premium buyer and I present a price and I'm not even going to like flinch telling you about it, I'm like, "yeah, we've got this and this is what it costs and this," and they're going to go, "oh, this person feels really confident." [00:14:36] Jason: And it's just energetically how we present it. There's no like, "Hey, I'm trying to prep you for this price, you know, reveal because it's going to hurt a little bit." Right. Or if they just have the confidence and they know they're expensive, they might even just say, "Hey, we're one of the most expensive, but we're also one of the best. Let me tell you about your options." Right? So maybe they start with a pre-frame like that, but either way, they have this confidence that they know they have value and that it's worth it, and then they present it like that, then people would go, oh, okay, but if you have that anxiety deep down related to price and you know, you're this person if you're always looking for the coupon code or the discount code or you're trying to find the cheapest way to do something, then you've got a bit of that going on. [00:15:21] Jason: Because that's your identity. And so I've noticed this. Like in order to get people to be better salespeople, I can't just give them tactics. I have to give them identity. And so, and this is why my greatest sales hack, I call the Golden Bridge Formula. It's like it's the most authentic way to sell, which is your personal why connected to the business why connected to the prospect's why. Because we always trust motives. And the default assumption in sales, if I don't know your motive and you're trying to sell to me, is you want my money. [00:15:54] Sam: Right.  [00:15:54] Jason: And if I think that's your only motive is you want my money and you're willing to do whatever it takes to get that, then you're probably maybe even willing to be unethical in order to get that might be the assumption. [00:16:05] Jason: Right? So that's kind of the default assumption in sales. And so to correct that, if I tell somebody, "Hey. I'm Jason Hull. My personal why is to inspire others to love true principles. And so what that means is I love sharing what works and learning what works and teaching to others. I would do that for free, for fun, and so I created DoorGrow and our why at DoorGrow is to transform property management business owners and their businesses. [00:16:27] Jason: And so if our whole belief system is around helping people transform their businesses. So that allows me to basically feed my addiction to learning, coaches, masterminds, books, whatever, and turn around and be able to share what's working with others. And that's just fun for me. So I have a business that basically fulfills my lifestyle and allows me to have fun and do what I want to do. [00:16:51] Jason: And you, Mr. Property management, business owner, who I'm maybe selling to, want to grow your business. And so our interests are in alignment. My business is the bridge that connects your why to my why. We both get what we want. It's the ultimate win-win, right? Everybody wins. And so I've been able to take really terrible salespeople that are really bad at selling, and I just get them clear on their own identity. [00:17:14] Jason: Mm-hmm. Who they are, why they do what they do, and have them relate that to people and then people trust them. And sales and deals happened at the speed of trust.  [00:17:22] Sam: Oh my gosh, I love this so much. It's insanely powerful too when I'm teaching people how to do just introductions, you know? A super quick formula too for the property managers out there that are listening to that, even if you're property manager, you have to get good at sales. [00:17:38] Sam: Yeah, you have to be good at communication to be able to bring more doors into your portfolio. And so the way you know, a really easy formula for those homeowners when you're having that conversation, first of all, they've got to know who they're talking to. Yeah. You know, this belief, identity, you know, matrix that I actually I love to call, I just did a keynote. [00:17:59] Sam: It's funny for everybody listening. It's almost like Jason and I have read each other's notes, but we haven't. Just did a keynote, well that's maybe a month ago in Minnesota, that the entire talk was your thoughts, create your belief about yourself, your totally belief about yourself creates your identity, and then your identity creates your outcomes. [00:18:16] Sam: Yeah. And, but we have to go back and start with those thoughts. And so, but a simple, easy formula for property managers out there having this conversation is first of all, start asking permission for things. Yes. We can't just tell, right? If we can ask it as a question, ask it as a question. [00:18:36] Sam: So ask permission, like, "Hey, before we get started, do you mind if I take a quick minute and just introduce you to our company and myself."  [00:18:44] Sam: yeah.  [00:18:45] Sam: And so first of all, anytime a conversation starts, there's always this period of icebreaking, right? Yeah. Anytime anything new is introduced in anyone's environment, there's always stiffness until that moment of rapport happens and we relax a little bit. [00:19:00] Sam: Yeah. So taking a couple of minutes to just. "Hey, before we get started, do you mind if I introduce the company and a little bit about myself? Would that be all right?" Yes. So permission to it and then just take a few minutes because I mean, so many times we'll go through this crazy presentation and then we're asking somebody to buy from us and they don't even know who we are. [00:19:21] Sam: We never took the time to even introduce ourselves. Right.  [00:19:24] Jason: Yeah.  [00:19:24] Sam: Or they don't know thing about the company.  [00:19:25] Jason: Trying to immediately shove the product or service down their throat.  [00:19:28] Sam: Yeah. No wonder they need to think about it. They don't even know who you are. And so we introduce that first. [00:19:34] Sam: It's huge. And to just getting into the things. So that's the flow. It's like, okay, now that you know a little bit about us, tell us a little bit about you. What are you looking for? Right. So then you start that discovery process, and I'm sure you trained this but the discovery process is everything. [00:19:51] Sam: We have to understand the motive behind why they want to do things. Somebody just says, "Hey, I'm looking for a property manager." Okay, great. That's one thing. "Why do you would need a property manager? What are you trying to solve? What do we want to accomplish by having a property manager for your property?" [00:20:09] Sam: So we find out, what are the pain points? What are the issues that they're wanting to overcome? And then from there, we can create a, you know, craft a conversation around it. But until we know that, we're just stabbing in the dark and just guessing it. Yeah. Well, hopefully this will work.  [00:20:23] Jason: Right. Yeah. If we just jump right to offering solutions when we don't even ask what they need it's not very effective. [00:20:30] Jason: And then they're going to have a ton of objections.  [00:20:32] Sam: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But yeah, that's the some of the complaints we have are the communication and the other one is just not responding once we find solutions, then give them to the property manager. [00:20:45] Sam: And then it's like ghosting for who knows how long until finally somebody gets back. And so that's the other side of the communication is not getting resolution once we actually, you know, we can do this work, but we're not going to sit around here all day to wait to get it approved. We have other appointments. [00:21:02] Sam: So do we want to reschedule?  [00:21:03] Jason: It's treating the vendor like they're high value, they're going to treat you like you're high value and they're going to prioritize you. And so it really is a mutual respect relationship that needs to be built. So, Sam, I also want to bring up to our audience, you are going to be coming [00:21:19] Jason: to speak at DoorGrow Live. Yeah. And you're going to be teaching some really cool stuff. Could you just touch on real quick what you're going to be sharing at this because I wanted to come bring you to expose my clients and my audience to what you're going to be sharing and maybe you can get some people pumped up for DoorGrow Live, so. [00:21:38] Sam: Absolutely. Yeah. So thank you for the invite as well. I'm super excited to be speaking for DoorGorw Live. It's my passion, in fact to be able to help people in their daily lives, especially in conversations like this, to make it easy. I am such a firm believer that sales should be easy. If it's not easy, we're overcomplicating it. And so what we're going to be talking about at the event is I'm going to give some really simple keys to better communication so people actually not only listen, but they understand what you're saying and, more importantly, why should they care? [00:22:18] Sam: So we're going to talk about something called, the benefit lens. We're going to talk about some easy word substitutions. We're not going to be learning scripts or anything. We're going to be, we're going to show any really easy ways to get immediate buy-in to what our conversation is. Nice. And how to recruit people to be raving fans and be on board. [00:22:38] Sam: And how to ask and get referrals because that's huge in...  [00:22:44] Sam: absolutely.  [00:22:44] Sam: ...something like a property management. If every third door you added also added another one from a referral, what would that do to your business? Yeah, absolutely. So not just asking for referrals, but actually asking in a way where actually get them. [00:22:57] Jason: Right. Yeah. If you're getting enough referrals, one, because you have a good reputation, you're doing a good job, but also because you have an intention and you're asking appropriately, you create this kind of virus of growth in your business where it's multiplying. [00:23:13] Jason: Every client becomes more clients.  [00:23:16] Sam: Yep. Absolutely. In fact, we can do a quick little as an example of some of the things we're going to cover. Are you open to doing a quick little role play with me on...  [00:23:24] Sam: all right. Let's do it.  [00:23:25] Sam: Some of the conversation here. Yeah. I love role play.  [00:23:28] Sam: Let's have fun.  [00:23:29] Sam: Yeah, for sure. [00:23:30] Sam: So I'm property manager. So before we do, give me a quick little context of what is a premium price property manager and what is like a middle range property manager. And so I'll know what I'm working with here. [00:23:44] Jason: Oh yeah. Usually our clients have three different price points for that reason. So, perfect. But let's say like, real typical in the marketplace is 10% is pretty normal. Okay? And this is not what we recommend. because our clients close more deals more easily at a higher price point. [00:23:59] Jason: So we have some special pricing models, but let's say 10%. Premium, maybe 12%, and the lower would maybe be like 8%.  [00:24:08] Sam: Got it. Got it. Perfect. Alright, so I'm the project manager. So I'm going to be a premium 12%. Yeah. So what we're going to do in this conversation, I'm going to ask for the business and you're going to give me a little bit of a price flinch with, "well, the other guy was only 10%." [00:24:23] Sam: Okay. And so we'll show a quick, easy way to handle that. All right. In a way that will make sense for everybody. So, alright, Jason, so, sounds like everything that you've talked about, can you see how all the things we do will take care of the concerns that you have? [00:24:38] Sam: Yeah, absolutely. Sounds great.  [00:24:40] Sam: Awesome. Perfect. So the next steps to get moving is you know, so we're just 12% of the monthly as for us to be able to take care of all of that. And this will just need a quick authorization on this form here and we can get started right away.  [00:24:55] Jason: Ooh, okay. Well, I was expecting, you know, I talked to a company down the street, they were like 10%, which seems to be a bit more normal. [00:25:04] Jason: I don't know.  [00:25:04] Sam: More normal?  [00:25:07] Jason: I've talked to a couple companies and a lot of them all do it at 10%. Could, like, is it possible you could do it at 10%?  [00:25:13] Sam: Oh, gotcha. So listen, I mean, so we were just 12%, but listen, we're not 2% higher or 2% more expensive. We're 2% better. Can I explain to you why that is? [00:25:25] Jason: Sure.  [00:25:26] Sam: Absolutely.  [00:25:27] Sam: So at that point, as a great company, you're going to have a hit list of all of the reasons why you're better than everybody else, and what makes you that premium company. I like it. So the minute we get that permission question in of, "Hey, we're not 2% more expensive, we're 2% higher, we're 2% better." [00:25:43] Sam: Then the permission question is, "can I show you why, or can I show you how?" And they say "Yes." Then we're going to, "okay, so what we do, it's..." never talk bad about the competition. Sure. But it's always with that perspective. "So what we do is this, and what we do is this, and what we do is this. We're always going to have the availability to be in contact, you know, 24/7 or you know, whatever all of the benefits is. [00:26:10] Sam: We're going through this huge benefit list. Yeah. And then when, once we, and it works like magic, once you get to about 10 or 12 things, especially when you know, those first 10 or 12 things are things the other companies don't do. Yeah. So many times that person will go, "you know what? You're right. You know what? You're right. Let's just go ahead and do it." Yeah.  [00:26:31] Jason: I mean, you go through those things you say, "so does that make sense why maybe we're 2% better?" And they're going to be like, "yeah."  [00:26:38] Jason: You've got agreement.  [00:26:39] Sam: Cool. Absolutely. And the other thing to do in this conversation, and this is really powerful too, so, you know, we'll take you know, what's a, what's the average rent that we'd be taking that percentage off of? [00:26:50] Jason: Let's say 2000 bucks.  [00:26:51] Sam: So 2000 bucks. That's what I was going to use. "So we're talking about 2% difference. So we're looking at $40 a month or $10 a week. Is it worth it to you for $10 a week to potentially fight the headache of, you know, your property management company not responding when you need them to respond, your tenants being really unhappy, the tenants turning over and over, for, I mean, $10 a week. Is it worth it to you for that?"  [00:27:22] Jason: Yeah.  [00:27:23] Sam: So if, I mean, if you're willing to roll the dice and take that chance, then of course you could do what you want. But if you want it done right and done once, so you're headache free and you're not going to have to, because the reason you hire a property manager is to be hands off. [00:27:35] Sam: Right? Yeah. Perfect. That's why what, that's what sets us apart. Next to any of the other companies around.  [00:27:43] Jason: Got it. So hypothetical property manager, Sam here, like believes. You can tell by listening to him, he believes in what he is selling. He believes he's worth that 12%. He believes he's worth that value, and I love that reframe. [00:27:58] Jason: One of the NLP hacks I teach clients is, it's not a, it's b, and he's like, "it's not that we're expensive or higher price, it's that we're 2% better." And so you're saying this is how you are looking at it. Here's how I want you to look at it. And that's a really cool correction. I love that right there. [00:28:16] Jason: Very powerful.  [00:28:17] Sam: The other part of that too is when you take, we're not talking about the total monthly, you know, we're talking about what's 12% or 10%? We're talking about 2% difference. Yeah. Is it worth it to you for a 2% difference to take the chance on having to deal with this, having to manage your own projects, having the headache, having the you know, the angry tenants or we don't have that problem. [00:28:42] Sam: And here's proof: review, testimony. Other people in the area, for people that use us just like you guys.  [00:28:49] Jason: Yeah. Awesome. Perfect. And you're going to share some really cool stuff I know at DoorGrow Live. I'm excited, man. Me too.  [00:28:56] Sam: Let's just tip of the iceberg. [00:28:57] Jason: For a salesman to be able to like build a coaching business, teaching sales like these are the best in the world at sales, and so I'm really excited to have you come. I've sold millions and millions of dollars of stuff. I love, I'm always learning more about sales, like this is something you can always continually learn more, so I love that little reframe. [00:29:17] Jason: That's a good one. I'm excited to hear what else you have to share. This is going to be really awesome. And if you're interested, go to doorgrowlive.com and get your tickets. Get your tickets. Our theme this year is innovating the future of property management, and we are bringing future ideas. [00:29:32] Jason: I'm going to be going over hybrid pricing, a new pricing model for property managers. This is the future. We're going to be sharing our DoorGrow hiring system. This is the future of how you're going to need to do hiring, so you're not making mistakes with hires, we're helping a lot of people replace their entire team. [00:29:48] Jason: So anyway, DoorGrow Live is going to be really freaking cool. So, yeah, and it's a holistic conference as well. We're bringing people from outside the industry, people that are related to different things. I've got a biohacking expert. We've got different things just to optimize your life as an entrepreneur and to make you better at what you do. [00:30:05] Jason: So this is going to be really cool. So, well, Sam anything else we should touch on?  [00:30:10] Sam: You know, there's so much we could cover.  [00:30:12] Jason: There's a lot. We'll save it for DoorGrow Live. How can people that, if they're listening, they're like, I'm a vendor, or I've got this, or I could really use Sam's help. [00:30:21] Jason: How can they get ahold of you?  [00:30:23] Sam: Yeah, absolutely. They can go to, of course the website is closeitnow.net. That's NET so closeitnow.net. They can email me directly, sam@closeitnow.net. On an Instagram at @therealcloseitnow. Okay. Or basically search Close it Now anywhere and I pop up all over the place. [00:30:44] Sam: All right. I'm kind of everywhere on social media and on the Googles at this point. All right.  [00:30:50] Jason: All right, well we're going to close this show now, so appreciate you coming on, Sam. It's been great having you. And for those that are watching, listening, if you could use some help from DoorGrow reach out to us. [00:31:00] Jason: You can check us out at doorgrow.com. We are the world leaders at coaching and scaling property management companies. And so if you are dealing with operational challenges, team challenges, hiring challenges, or you just don't know the right strategies for adding doors or business development, we can help you with all of that. [00:31:18] Jason: So reach out to us, check us out at doorgrow.com and until next time, to our mutual growth. Bye everyone. 

As a property manager, you're familiar with the uncomfortable shuffle when trying to ensure utilities are set up correctly at move-in. What if you could make the whole process easier? In this episode of the Property Management Growth Show, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with the founder of Utility Profit, Zac Maurais, to discuss wires, pipes, and signals: Everything you wish you knew about home utilities. You'll Learn [01:48] How Zac Built a $100 Million Business [07:38] Solving Utility Challenges with a Streamlined Tool [15:54] Using Utility Profit to Make Extra Profit [23:26] Integrations and Frequently Asked Questions [30:20] Take Action on The Things You're Avoiding! Quotables “I think the secret to being smart is just being willing to look stupid.” “Done is better than perfect.” “Have a bias for action. Get your hands dirty. Do it yourself.” “ Whatever it is that you think that's holding you back, just start trying to do it.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript [00:00:00] Zac: It's almost like we're like taking the Yellow Pages and then putting it online or something. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of a wacky problem that we're solving there.  [00:00:08] Jason: So you're single handedly bringing the utility space into the future. So, All right. [00:00:16] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow Property Managers to the Property Management Growth Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur and you want to add doors, you want to make a difference, you want to increase revenue, you want to help others, you want to impact lives, and you're interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager and you just don't know it. DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. [00:00:47] Jason: You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. [00:01:13] Jason: I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show and I'm hanging out today with Zac Maurais. Did I say it right?  [00:01:25] Jason: That's right, yes.  [00:01:26] Jason: Hey. All right, cool. It's great to have you on the show. So Zac we're going to be chatting today about wires, pipes, and signals, everything you wish you knew about home utilities. [00:01:38] Jason: I think this will be interesting to our listeners because, you know, we get into this stuff as property management people. So, so Zac before we get into that though, give us a little backstory on you. How'd you get into being an entrepreneur? When did you first figure that out, that you maybe were one and then we can get into why you started this business so that you've got going and tell us, tell everybody about it. [00:01:58] Jason: Cool.  [00:02:00] Zac: Let's do it. Yeah. So, quick intro myself, I live here in Austin, Texas. I've been an entrepreneur now for better part of a decade and a half. Right out of college I started a business it was actually a food delivery business called Favor. We ended up scaling that business to having 50,000 delivery drivers in the state of Texas. [00:02:22] Zac: So it was the second largest employer in the state. And over the course of building it up over a couple of years, we were doing over a hundred million dollars of food sales a year. So sizable company and we sold that to HEB grocery and yeah.  [00:02:38] Jason: And if people don't know, HEB I'm in the Austin area, I'm up in Round Rock. [00:02:41] Jason: But if people don't know HEB. HEB consistently wins the best grocery store awards like in America every year. Like it's always winning.  [00:02:51] Zac: It's kind of amazing. I mean, they are an institution. There's so many small towns across Texas where the only show in town, I would kind of say it's akin to like a Walmart or something like that for a national brand that people would be more familiar with. [00:03:04] Zac: Family run business, been around for a hundred years. So it's cool that it had joined forces with Favor. And learned a lot from doing that company. I mean, at the time that we sold it, we had over 140 corporate employees, designers and software engineers and business intelligence people and salespeople. [00:03:24] Zac: So I'm right there with you, Jason, where I like growth. I like growing things and learning about business and learning about new categories. So as I sold it, I was looking for the next thing to do.  [00:03:35] Jason: So people are clear, Favor, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but Favor competes with like Instacart and like some of these, it's like a delivery service. [00:03:44] Zac: That's right. So the way that the service worked was, it was like an on demand. It was part of the on demand delivery kind of thing that was happening. The gig economy, you know, people will probably remember Lyft coming out and Uber. There wasn't one for delivery of kind of like fast casual food or groceries yet. [00:04:02] Zac: And we brought that into the market. We had first mover.  [00:04:05] Jason: Oh yeah. So yeah, it's kind of like Uber Eats and, you know, these kind of things.  [00:04:08] Zac: Exactly. So you could tap a button, request a Favor, and then someone would go shopping for you, go pick up some tacos or yeah, run at the grocery store or something like that and bring it to you in 45 minutes or less. [00:04:20] Jason: Got it. And is Favor just a Texas thing?  [00:04:23] Zac: At one point in time we tried to go national expansion, but it was a bit of a wartime thing that was going on. Yeah. A lot of VC dollars getting put in. And we had a very strong Texas brand. We had over a million people in Texas using it. [00:04:37] Zac: Yes. So we said we just doubled down on home base.  [00:04:40] Jason: I mean, Texas is like its own little universe. We've got Favor, we've got HEB, we've got, you know, there's all these things that are just specifically Texas. So if y'all come to Texas, you got to like experience the whole Texas deal. You got to go to an HEB, you got to go to Bucky's, you got to go to all these things, right? [00:04:56] Zac: So yeah, right. When you're here in town for Jason's event, go get yourself some Yeti swag.  [00:05:02] Jason: Yes.  [00:05:02] Zac: And then order yourself a Favor.  [00:05:04] Jason: Yes. There you go. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, and people get really religious about their, you know, things like Yeti. It's like Yeti Mecca. Like people, like my brother-in-law comes into town. He is like, "I got to go to the Yeti store." He's like, just like starry-eyed in there. And I'm like, "why? Why?" Coolers, thermases? I don't know. Cool drinks. Yeah. Yeah. It's a thing. So he like collects them, and then sometimes he's flipping them too. Like there's limited edition things, so. My brother-in-law's name is Jason also, so he might listen to this. [00:05:36] Jason: So Jason, I mentioned you on my podcast, so, all right.  [00:05:39] Jason: Shout out to Jason.  [00:05:41] Jason: Shout out to Jason. So, cool. So Zac, I mean, that's a pretty impressive thing. Not many people can say they built a hundred million dollar, you know, business or had an exit or something like that. So, and then what did you do next? [00:05:55] Jason: Like, you sell this thing, did you lose all meaning and purpose in life and decide to start a new business or what happened?  [00:06:01] Zac: I think that happens with some people, right? You sell it, you have somebody, you're like, "what am I going to do with my life now?" I'm going to take a good thing and somehow it becomes a bad thing. [00:06:09] Zac: But I just, I really like building. And I like the process of entrepreneurship where you talk to people, you try to find a problem and you like go hit a whiteboard, you sketch, it becomes more tangible, and then all of a sudden you can partner with an engineer and make it and then bring it back to the customer. [00:06:26] Zac: And I just like that. It kind of just scratches something in my brain, I think. And something else that's been cool for me on my entrepreneurship journey. I had mentioned that I've been doing it now for a decade and a half and the entire time that I've been working and doing startups, I've been doing it with like my best friend Ben from growing up together. [00:06:45] Zac: We  [00:06:46] Jason: best friend Ben.  [00:06:46] Zac: wen to school in New Hampshire. And it's fun to be able to go on that journey with someone like that.  [00:06:52] Jason: Yeah. That's cool. So you and Ben are still doing stuff together then.  [00:06:55] Zac: Right.  [00:06:56] Jason: Yeah. Third company.  [00:06:57] Zac: Third company now, so.  [00:06:59] Jason: Yeah. Dynamic duo. All right. And so I imagine that you have some complimentary sort of skill sets and challenge each other a bit. [00:07:08] Zac: Yeah, I think our brains have kind of been swapped and became more of the same brain. But the way that I explained it originally was like Ben was the left brain engineer, right? He is going to build out the backend database. He was a civil engineer, so he was just constantly doing math. And then I was more of the, you can kind of see there's some paintings behind me, like I was the artist.  [00:07:30] Jason: The right brain guy. Yeah. Got it.  [00:07:32] Zac: But now it just kind of became one, somewhere between now. He kind of went a little bit more right. I went more left, so.  [00:07:38] Jason: Cool. So bring us up towards the present day. So like, what are you and Ben, you know, getting together and working on? [00:07:45] Zac: Yeah, so I guess the way that we got into the property management industry was we were trying to build some leasing automation tech over the last few years. We had something called Sunroom Leasing, and it was like a platform that would help. With self showings, with different things related to collecting some data from renters about the home. [00:08:05] Zac: We had at one point in time, around 8,000 homes that were leasing across the country for some real estate investment trusts and some large scale property managers. And it kind of turned us on to this like, it had some challenges I think of that scale. And so we ended up realizing that's not what we want to do long term. [00:08:26] Zac: And something that it was like a good ride, but I think we were onto something that could be more scalable and a more acute problem to solve.  [00:08:35] Jason: Yeah, this was like a tuition business. You're learning and paying the price of tuition. Yeah. So you got familiar with the property management industry a bit through that. [00:08:44] Jason: That's right. Figured out kind of your target audience and you probably started to see some different problems you like started scheming with your whiteboard on, so.  [00:08:52] Zac: Yeah, and the problem that we zoomed into was around utility setup. And what we thought was kind of a silly thing was, here it is, it's 2024. [00:09:01] Zac: This was last year that we had launched it. We realized that there wasn't like a Google Maps of utilities. We thought it was silly that you couldn't just type in an address online and then see what's the water, what's the electric, what's the gas, what's the internet? There was no transparency for that. [00:09:20] Zac: And when we looked closer, there's like, you zoom in on water, there's over 20,000 water providers and they have really weird setups, you know, or it could be down just by the neighborhood or the zip code or the, you know, it's just wacky the way that the mapping works. And we thought if we could build out the whole mapping infrastructure, that would be a valuable thing, both for owners of the property that just want to have a more streamlined process, property managers that are doing it every day, and then renters. If you kind of think of this problem of setting up utilities while it's annoying and they have to Google around and make a bunch of phone calls, this is just one problem within a whole, you know, iceberg of other things. It's just the tip, small thing that they're doing a ton of things related to the move. We thought that if we could streamline this, then it could have a broad appeal and be something that we could do nationally and do at a big scale. So, over the last year, what we've done is we've built out that infrastructure to be able to do mapping at scale. [00:10:21] Zac: And we have built a platform that streamlines the process of turning on utilities. We're trying to make the utility on switch and it's a cool tool because the property managers using it can get confirmation that utilities have been set up correctly. And this is helpful for them because, you know, if you don't turn on the electricity and it's the dead of winter, you're probably going to have some problems on your hands with pipes bursting, you know, and things like that. [00:10:48] Zac: So, it's a useful tool in the process.  [00:10:51] Jason: So let's talk about this problem, right? This is super annoying. Like everybody that's moved has had to figure out this weird, you know, puzzle to like, which utility providers are available here? Which internet provider can I use? What are my options? Can I get this cool fiber, you know, thing, can I get this? Is there..? Like what's available? Then they're trying to figure out like water, electric. You're maybe trying to find out from the previous owner or somebody and you're trying to like negotiate all this and then like getting things switched and then the timelines like it's a mess. [00:11:25] Jason: Like it's really annoying and yeah, it's like why do we just deal with this and put up with this? We're living in the age of AI and this AI revolution now and. Why isn't there a better solution to this? It seems like it's just like chaos and confusion. Yeah, so.  [00:11:45] Zac: It is chaos and confusion. Yeah. And people waste so much time doing it and oh god. [00:11:50] Zac: Yeah. And I think as a result, like sometimes people will just make sacrifices where they'll be like, well, I was on this telecom company before. Maybe I'll just go back to them. And then I might miss out on being able to be like, well, I could have had faster internet or a better plan that's cheaper or something If they had just...  [00:12:07] Jason: sure. Yeah.  [00:12:07] Zac: ...known that they had options.  [00:12:10] Jason: Right. You're like, man, I'm still using dial up. And I didn't realize Google Fiber was available here. Yeah, right.  [00:12:15] Zac: Throwing that in an old AOL like.  [00:12:18] Jason: Yes, I remember those days. I was such a nerd. Alright, so yeah, and people may maybe get impatient and they just make some quick decisions. [00:12:27] Jason: You know, and all these companies try to give them incentives like, Hey, if you move, like we'll move it and help you get it set up. And they try to make it seamless, but because they're trying to retain their, you know, the customer, but that might not be in the best interest of the customer.  [00:12:41] Zac: Totally. Yeah. So this we're in the spirit of trying to add transparency into the process, make it more streamlined. And and have a really lightweight tool like, you know, not another app you have to download, but just something that seamlessly fits in the move in process. Okay. [00:12:55] Zac: Integrates really well with the tools that the property manager is already using, you know, just is able to sync, in real time, figure out what are the addresses coming up, and then give the property manager a way to both communicate what the utilities are and then check that they've been turned on. [00:13:16] Zac: And then interestingly, there's a lot of places in the US where these telecom companies are competing. And they spent a lot of money to lay down these fiber optic lines, you know, or copper lines, and they're trying to recoup some of that cost. Yeah. And so they'll pay money for more customers. [00:13:35] Zac: And so we're able to generate revenue and then share that with property managers as an incentive to use the tool.  [00:13:43] Jason: Okay, cool. So what's the name of the tool or this service?  [00:13:46] Zac: It's called Utility Profit.  [00:13:48] Jason: Utility profit. Okay. All right. And it's P-R-O-F-I-T I would assume? Yep, exactly. Not like you're prophesying. [00:13:57] Jason: All right, got it. So Utility Profit, and so this really is solving that challenge to just streamline all that, and there's a financial incentive or benefit for the property manager helping to get these things connected.  [00:14:11] Zac: That's right. That's right. Yeah. And one of the...  [00:14:14] Jason: Win, win, win all the way around win. [00:14:15] Zac: Yeah, exactly. And that's the best type of tool. You know, something that it doesn't just benefit one party, but all the people involved. Yeah. And so, you know, it's exciting there. Now there's people across the entire United States using it. We've been helping thousands of renters per month. [00:14:32] Zac: Just in the last year there's been, I think over 750 property managers using it. Some really big ones with thousands of properties all the way down to people that just have a couple homes in the portfolio. I think the average has about 400 homes and, you know, it's really kind of empowering that we bring something to the world and that fast that many people are using it. [00:14:55] Zac: It's cool to see.  [00:14:56] Jason: Yeah. Cool. So. And Ben's leading the nerds on the team making this all work.  [00:15:02] Zac: Yeah, we're both working closely with engineers and, I mean, it's been a big lift. I mean, we've had to do all sorts of wacky things to be able to like get this data because like I said, it didn't exist. [00:15:12] Zac: I imagine. [00:15:13] Zac: We have to like literally go and draw service maps, you know, that were PDFs on old websites and then, you know, turn them into a structured database. Right. I, you know, pull it up correctly. Yeah.  [00:15:26] Jason: You're just doing this ground level legwork to like get... it's almost like you're transferring old records into a digital format. [00:15:35] Jason: You know? Yeah. So that people could play their MP3s or something. Yeah.  [00:15:38] Zac: It kind of feels like that. It's almost like we're like taking the Yellow Pages and then putting it online or something. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of a wacky problem that we're solving there.  [00:15:48] Jason: So you're single handedly bringing the utility space into the future, so.  [00:15:54] Zac: Yeah. And one thing that we've we've been doing over the last couple months that I think is pretty cool is that there's this whole industry that exists for the multifamily apartment space related to what they call as like fiber as an amenity or fiber to the home. [00:16:11] Zac: Yeah. And so the way it would work on multifamily would be, you know, these big telecoms would say, "Hey, we'll sell you a thousand units of internet and then we'll give you a discount for doing so. And then you can either kind of keep that for yourself or you can, you know, share that with your tenants as a way to help your apartments stand out from other apartments." [00:16:33] Zac: The apartments are i identifiable and also you know, easier for the telecoms to spot. The hard thing about homes is it's this long tail of properties and there hasn't been a good way to aggregate them. I think over the last few years there's been some, you know, real estate investment trusts that have got to scale. [00:16:54] Zac: And so it kind of got these telecom companies thinking, "Hey, maybe I should go you know, sell into this market, see if we can apply the same principles of this program from apartments to single family." But it hasn't yet been done at any sort of significant scale. It's kind of a new concept. Now that we have hundreds of thousands of homes, that we are effectively the on switch for, we're helping to source these deals. [00:17:20] Zac: And we're able to bring, you know, significant discount from retail pricing to property managers and consumers. So we we're adding that as a new program that we're doing. We're calling it like Fiber Ready Homes. So it's a cool thing because we can help property managers identify what portion of their portfolio has the underlying technology at the home to have, you know, hyper fast internet speeds. [00:17:47] Zac: Yeah. And then do all of the enrollment process and the billing process to be able to offer a program like this. And and it's pretty gnarly. Like the average property manager that will turn on this program can make tens of thousands of dollars a year. It's roughly $10 per month per door. [00:18:04] Zac: So if you're a 300 door property manager, this is about $18,000. 18,000 per year that you'd be able to generate. And just, you know, kind of free cash flows for enabling something that the renters want.  [00:18:18] Jason: Right. Just making more money and yeah, I mean, high speed internet also being able to bring that to your units. [00:18:26] Jason: It creates a bigger incentive for people to rent it. I mean, it's definitely something I research before I buy a home or move anywhere. I'm always like, what Internet's available there because my life is going to be happening through this. And a lot of more people working from home, especially since Covid. [00:18:41] Zac: True. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, I think a lot of renters see internet more important than running water in some ways. I mean, it's like everyone's on Netflix and doing work from home calls. You know, it's just, it's super important for renters.  [00:18:55] Jason: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's interesting. And it sucks though when you like if you rent somewhere and that you only have one option and it's not the option that you really want in that area because sometimes they've negotiated like, oh, it's Comcast cable or something like this, and it's low speed or whatever. [00:19:11] Zac: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Sometimes you're kind of limited by what lines have been laid, and sometimes there's limited options, but it's cool because now we have these two programs. We have one, which is that one I just explained, and then we have a second one. We call it like a marketplace. So it'll truly show you everything that's available, every single company, every single speed all the details of it and help to facilitate just being able to turn it on a lot easier. [00:19:34] Jason: Got it. How does this work? Like a property manager gets set up in your system, they've got their properties, you know, in this, and then they can figure out the tenants when they're onboarding a new tenant, they're like, "Hey, before we give you keys and move you in, we want to make sure utilities are getting moved over." [00:19:49] Jason: So you help streamline this?  [00:19:51] Zac: That's right. Yeah. So it will connect seamlessly with property managers, property management software. Pull in the active listings that they have, and then it will have triggers around the move in date. So once someone's been approved and you have a move in date that's approaching. [00:20:08] Zac: It will send reminders and say, Hey, you know, you're moving in end of the month, like before you move in, please show that you've turned the electric on so that there's not going to be bill back problems and things like that.  [00:20:20] Zac: So, it handles the communication and then what's pretty cool about the tool too, is it's all white labeled. Utility Profit, it's not, you know, like a tenant friendly name, you know? Yeah. It's really for the property manager. And so, okay. We're just helping to facilitate these things. So it's got the property manager's logo, you know, we're more just the underlying technology, which I think is good because like a renter in the process doesn't want to get handed off to another third party. [00:20:48] Zac: They just want to... [00:20:49] Jason: yeah, "Who are these guys? Why should I trust them? I trust you. I'm working with you," but yeah. Got it. No, I think that's really smart. And so your business model then, your growth strategy really is to leverage and support the property managers.  [00:21:02] Zac: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We're trying to partner with all the property managers in the single family rental space. [00:21:08] Zac: And you know, last I checked, you know, there's at least five to 10 million homes that are managed by third party property managers. And we want to become the main place where where people used to turn on utilities. And you know, we talked about entrepreneurs and having a big vision earlier in the call. [00:21:26] Zac: You know, I think we're solving an important problem by building this Google Maps of Utilities and also just making a better experience. I think anytime we start a business though, you're kind of thinking about like, okay, "Well if I'm able to pull this off, how could this even be even more significant long term?" [00:21:42] Zac: And one of the things that I've been just thinking about as I've been doing it is you know, today we are helping to connect the dots between these things, but I bet in the not too distant future, maybe a few years out, we'll be responsible for millions of homes in helping to turn on these utilities. [00:21:59] Jason: Yeah.  [00:22:00] Zac: We'll probably want to go down the stack of utilities, you know, instead of just directing you to be going to, you know, XYZ local power source. Maybe they get directed to a company that, similar to how we're able to get discounts on internet because we have so much scale, we could buy energy contracts in deregulated markets and, you know,  [00:22:22] Jason: okay. [00:22:22] Zac: Inch down becoming a utility.  [00:22:24] Zac: Okay.  [00:22:24] Zac: And so, I think it's a, it's an interesting thing.  [00:22:27] Jason: So you're saying maybe there's a potential the property manager could be the utility?  [00:22:32] Zac: We'll be able to help the property manager earn more money... [00:22:35] Zac: yeah. [00:22:35] Zac: ...on this process because we...  [00:22:38] Zac: just more margin [00:22:38] Zac: ...want to direct them to like a utility that we own. And we're able to help them monetize these other things like natural gas and electricity.  [00:22:49] Jason: Got it. Love it. Yeah. You're passing the benefit onto the property manager. So, yeah. That gives them quite an incentive to help you grow this. [00:22:55] Jason: Right. So I love it. So, I mean, this really gives property managers a strong competitive advantage over self-management then. [00:23:03] Zac: Yeah, I think so. You know, I think property managers, they have so many things that they're doing and this is one of those set it and forget it types of tools. You know, it's not something you have to have mastery over and like learn another thing, this is like you get on, you set the thing up, you get the logo added and get it synced to your PM software and then you're done with it and it just kind of is happening in the background and then just notifies you. [00:23:26] Jason: Got it. So the setup is pretty easy and then it makes it a lot easier for the property management team to make sure utilities are getting set up correctly. There's visibility into seeing what's been set up and what hasn't, it sounds like. And you mentioned integrations with property management software, and I know everybody listening's like, "but what about my software? The one I'm using?" Yeah. So what integrations do you guys have set up already?  [00:23:49] Zac: It's all the major ones. So what we find is like AppFolio is popular. Rentvine is becoming more and more popular. You know, Propertyware is another one. Buildium's one that we you know, have in the works too, but yeah, I think most people... [00:24:04] Zac: Rent manager? [00:24:05] Zac: Rent manager, yeah. That's one that we work with too. Yeah. I know there's a lot of options for property managers there, but yeah. [00:24:11] Jason: Very cool. Yeah. So everybody listening there. There you go. So they're like, "oh, he mentioned mine. I'm okay."  [00:24:17] Zac: Yeah, that's right. Yeah it's cool that it, you know, just works in a broad way like that. And it's kind of interesting too that the tool even is able to work you know, even if you don't even have a property management software to figure out some ways to you know, even work in that use case. [00:24:32] Jason: Sure.  [00:24:32] Zac: But most people have software.  [00:24:34] Jason: So as long as you can get the properties like into your system, then...?  [00:24:38] Jason: That's right.  [00:24:38] Jason: Got it. Okay, cool. But if they have those then and you have that connection, then it's, yeah, it'll just streamline things. Makes it even more turnkey.  [00:24:47] Zac: That's right.  [00:24:48] Jason: Got it. Cool. So, all right, so you, what else should people know about this? [00:24:52] Jason: Like what are the big questions property managers have been asking you?  [00:24:55] Zac: I think one question is, you know, how much money I earn from this? You know? Okay.  [00:24:59] Jason: They like, they want to know about the money. Let's talk about the money.  [00:25:03] Zac: So the average property manager will, it's a range of 25 to $40 per move that, that happens. [00:25:10] Zac: It ends up being about 25 to, to $30 on average is what we're seeing across the country. And so I think it's one of those things where it's like nice gravy. What we find is that the average property manager, they're like, "this is nice. I can make some extra money from it." But I think it's like, you know, not enough to go, you know, it just adds to the bottom line a little bit. [00:25:32] Zac: Every little thing. Sure. So the main reason why people use it is the time savings, you know? Absolutely. It's just one last thing to have to worry about. So that's that's what we're seeing as we talk to people.  [00:25:44] Jason: Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, just the amount of time you're paying a team member, if they're like 25 to $35 an hour, for example you know, they might be spending an hour or two here or there just calling, trying to negotiate back and forth with the tenant, get these things set up so. [00:25:59] Zac: Property management some days feels like death by a thousand mosquitoes.  [00:26:04] Jason: Oh yeah. I often joke it's, it can be death by a thousand cuts or it can be a really well oiled systemizable machine, but yeah. [00:26:12] Jason: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, it offsets a little bit at the move in cost and then just the time savings. You're not having to pay your team to do all this communication. And you know, speed in onboarding is a real challenge for a lot of companies that are really in a high growth sort of state. [00:26:28] Jason: Like small companies might have a hard time just onboarding 10 units in a month, you know? Yeah. And larger companies, it can be pretty hairy if things aren't well dialed in.  [00:26:36] Zac: Yeah, I think that's a good point. It's all about having the systems in place. So that they scale.  [00:26:40] Jason: Very cool. [00:26:41] Jason: Well, is there anything else you think people should know about utility profit? And then we can get into like, how can they connect and get something like this going?  [00:26:50] Zac: Yeah. So the website's, utilityprofit.com.  [00:26:53] Jason: Okay.  [00:26:53] Zac: And it has some more information about how it works and has has some videos of the actual product. [00:26:59] Zac: You can see what it looks like from the renter's perspective, from your perspective and the dashboard that gives transparency. And and it kind of just walks you through everything about the product. And then there's a way on the website to be able to either book a demo if you have any questions about how something works. [00:27:17] Zac: And then, what we do is we'll just help you do like an onboarding call where we have people connect their PM software, upload a logo, invite their team members, really simple, straightforward process and then and then it's kind of good to go. So it's very streamlined thing. People typically will do it and it'll be live same day. [00:27:38] Zac: It's not like some big heavy lift or something. You just kind of go through this 15 minute process. We help you get it all synced up and then it's good to go.  [00:27:45] Jason: So, there's competition out there, right? Like this is a new thing in the space, but previously there's all these companies that try to, you know, negotiate and be able to pull in money and by being the person that gets people on a certain internet service or gets people and they get these kickbacks from the companies and that's how they make their money. [00:28:03] Jason: How do you feel like utility profits sort of stands out from those and I mean, my guess is you have the database, you have the data, like your ability to streamline. You're not having to go and start doing research and that you're just much faster.  [00:28:17] Zac: Yeah, I think that's exactly it. So there's been this whole category over the last couple years that's called a home concierge. [00:28:25] Zac: Yeah. And it's historically been like a call center model. Yeah. Where a rep will get the address and they'll, on your behalf, Google around, make some calls, you know, go try to set things up. And I think that was a helpful first step, and it seems like the natural thing that, that the industry would've been doing. [00:28:43] Zac: But this is just the natural progression of it, you know, building that database out, making it something that is like, you know, a true streamlined tool for everybody. And and just digitizing it a lot more.  [00:28:57] Jason: This is the future. This is the future. It's the next step. You're going to be a sponsor at DoorGrow Live. [00:29:02] Jason: So make sure, you know, everybody come to DoorGrow Live this year. Our theme this year is innovating the future of property management. And so we're going to be sharing innovative stuff. Innovative new models of pricing, not doing it the same way everybody else has been doing it, like percentage or flat fee. There's a lot of innovation and that's our goal at DoorGrow. We're always trying to figure out what are the most innovative stuff? We've got AI maintenance coordinators, we've got all sorts of stuff that are going to be showcased at this event. So if you don't want to be behind the times and have your lunch eaten by competitors and startups that are savvier and more focused on the future, make sure you come to DoorGrow Live. You're going to want to be there because the people that are at DoorGrow Live are going to be the ones that are getting a head start on these really effective cost, saving new tools, these ideas, they're going to help you have more profit in your business. [00:29:54] Jason: And so, Zac, we appreciate you being a sponsor. We're excited to showcase you and some other tools at our event, so.  [00:30:00] Zac: It's going to be fun. It'll be here right around the corner, so. [00:30:03] Jason: Check it out at doorgrowlive.com, and make sure you get your tickets. And we're going to be talking a little bit more in the future, probably on our podcast here. And just online about some of the cool things that you will get or learn if you come to DoorGrow Live this year in May at the Kalahari Resort in Round Rock, Texas. [00:30:20] Jason: So, cool. Well, Zac, is there anything else you want to share before you go? Parting word of wisdom for entrepreneurs out there that haven't had a hundred million dollar exits and built big giant things and they're just struggling to build their little machine, what would you say to them?  [00:30:36] Zac: I would just say like, whatever it is that you think that's holding you back, just start trying to do it. [00:30:43] Zac: You know? I think a lot of times you build up whatever it is in your head. And you think, "well, I would do it if I had this. Or what if I have to hire this person? Or, you know, I need to have this figured out, or I don't know how this works. Like I'm going to just say no to it." I would just say, just start doing it. [00:31:02] Zac: It doesn't have to be perfect to start. And the more you just take that first step it will become more clear and sometimes, it's harder to see the next 10 steps in front of you, but it's pretty easy to take that first step. So I'd say, have a bias for action. Get your hands dirty. Do it yourself. You have mentioned a lot of these things about AI and how the best companies are using ai. [00:31:25] Zac: We're really leaning into that as an organization. It doesn't matter what people's role is, we're saying. You know, download, ChatGPT three and talk to it. Ask it questions like, you know, there's so many cool resources today. It's the best time to figure things out and do things and and take that first step. [00:31:44] Jason: Yeah. GPT 4.5, we're getting clues of that's dropping and going to be out for everybody soon. And then Grok 3, I've been really geeking out on Grok 3, so it's pretty next level, so, but yeah. Cool. I love the idea. Done is better than perfect. I love the idea of rapid iteration. You know, so many times for those of you that are in the earlier stages of entrepreneurs listening to this, this is great advice because I've seen inside a lot of businesses, a lot of small businesses, and one of the biggest mistakes a lot of them make is they try to make everything perfect before they ship it, before they launch it. "I want to get all my processes dialed in," and they're trying to solve problems they don't even have yet. [00:32:20] Jason: They're trying to solve future problems instead of their current problem. And so rapid iteration really is the secret to growing a business quickly because you learn very fast what does and doesn't work. Just start trying shit. Just do it. Break stuff and you're going to learn way faster and everything's figureoutable, so.  [00:32:39] Zac: Yeah. And in that spirit, it doesn't matter what the thing is, you can always get feedback from it, even if it's not totally built yet, like it can be on a napkin, you know, or it could be the next level of that. But go build the thing in whatever low fidelity way. Yeah. [00:32:55] Zac: And then go talk to your customers about it. And this is going to have different applications for different types of business. because you're going to talk about different things. But you know, maybe you have a new program that you're thinking property owners might want to see, like get their feedback on it. [00:33:10] Zac: Or maybe you want to launch a new website or a new logo or whatever it is. I would just say, it doesn't have to be perfect, bring it but you have to get feedback on it. So definitely go and partner with who it is that is going to see it, and then just talk to them about it and say, "Well, how could this be better? What is this missing? What would be the next thing to do? If you could do anything with this, what would you do?" And, you know, people love to share advice. I mean, I think that's the other thing. Yeah. It's like over the last couple years since I've been doing entrepreneurship, I've been kind of amazed at how many people have been willing to share their time and their advice. [00:33:46] Zac: Yeah. And especially if you get an intro to someone from something. Yeah. You know, I think there's this huge thing of maybe you're afraid to ask for that intro or, you know, have that conversation because it's not perfect yet. I would say, you know, find the ideal person that you want to talk to and then figure out how to work backwards and how to get an intro to them and then have that conversation. [00:34:08] Zac: You know, I think you have to be vulnerable in it because you are going to come across dumb sometimes. You know, people are going to say like, "how did you not know this? Everyone knows this," but like, just lose your ego in that. Be okay with not being okay. And then you're going to feel a lot better because on the other side of it, you're going to learn so much. [00:34:27] Jason: Yeah, I think the secret to being smart is just being willing to look stupid. So, I mean, for sure. Ask the dumb question that you're afraid to ask because you're going to learn way faster. And I really think proximity is power. Like just another reason people should come to DoorGrow Live is I think we attract the most growth oriented property management, business owners in the industry and just being in proximity to all these sort of change makers and people trying new stuff and people experimenting, people willing to invest in themselves and to pay like coaches, like DoorGrow. And then I use all my clients as a mass rapid iteration sort of project. [00:35:05] Jason: Like we're always figuring out more and more stuff and I'm gathering these ideas and so we've got systems in place to just allow us to innovate in this industry a lot faster. And so we're really excited about bringing these kind of things to DoorGrow Live and showcasing it. [00:35:19] Jason: So if you're not part of our program, you're not one of our clients. Come check out the magic at DoorGrow Live. Connect with some of the people there and you might realize you found a home, so yeah, your family might be there. So yeah, entrepreneurs we're different breed of people. We, you know, we take risks, we're willing to try new things, and we're not focused primarily on safety and security. [00:35:39] Jason: We're focused more on fulfillment and freedom and contribution. And so this natural offshoot, entrepreneurs are the most helpful people, especially the healthy ones. When you're in a healthy growth-minded state, you want to benefit and help everybody. You're not gatekeeping information like people are sharing stuff and so yeah, I found the same thing to be true in the high level masterminds, coaches that I work with. [00:36:00] Jason: Like just being around the people in these programs has been probably the biggest benefit more than even learning from the guru or whoever that is sharing stuff sometimes. And so, yeah, proximity.  [00:36:11] Zac: Yeah, I think that's well said. You kind of become an average of the people that you spend most time with. [00:36:15] Zac: So if you're around, you know, someone who's going to be pessimistic about everything, then chances are, not going to try things as much. I mean, that, that was like one of the reasons why I had originally moved from, you know, where I was growing up in New Hampshire. I remember when I was pitching Favor when I was 20 something people were like, "ah, no one's going to pay five bucks for something like that. And how do you know how? You don't know how to code. You can't figure that out. Right? Go get a job like everybody else." And then I kind of moved and found my tribe you know, and in Silicon Valley area and then in Austin, Texas. And then next thing you know, I'm actually doing the thing.  [00:36:53] Jason: I think even if people just come to DoorGrow Live to connect with somebody like you and they can create a relationship with somebody like you or any of the change makers or players that we attract at our event. [00:37:05] Jason: I mean, you've done things that a lot of people would dream of being able to do in business, right. And so come make those connections, come to DoorGrow Live and make some connections because it's going to change your life for sure. So, well Zac, I appreciate you coming on the show. People can connect with your company at utilityprofit.com. [00:37:22] Jason: Do a demo. And it's been great having you here.  [00:37:26] Zac: Hey, thanks so much for having me on Jason.  [00:37:28] Jason: All right, so everybody, if you are struggling to grow your business or you're struggling to deal with operations, reach out to us. Check us out at DoorGrow.com. We would love to have a conversation, see if we might be able to help you with something. [00:37:39] Jason: And that's what we do all day long and we care about our clients. We really want to make sure that everybody succeeds. We only win if you're winning. And so until next time, everybody to our mutual growth, let's all win. Bye everyone. 

The property management industry is no stranger to conferences and in-person events, but have you ever thought about creating an event yourself? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the behind-the-scenes of putting on a live event or conference and all the pros and cons of doing so. You'll Learn [04:39] Learning from Past Mistakes and Failures [15:32] Getting Back in the Saddle: DoorGrow Live [21:07] What Goes Into Creating a Conference? [30:31] The Magic of In-Person Events Quotables “I think being able to just connect with people, making sure that people know who you are and what you do, I mean, it's really valuable.” “When you've got a room full of people who are in the same sector, in the same industry, there's so much knowledge in that room.” “When you're connecting with other people that are like you, that are growth minded and you both share an industry and a share a business model, like it really helps you grow.” “Your business is the sum of the five property management business owners you as a business owner are most connected to.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: When you're connecting with other people that are like you, that are growth minded and you both share an industry and share a business model, like it really helps you grow. [00:00:08] Jason: Your business is the sum of the five property management business owners you as a business owner are most connected to. [00:00:13] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the Property Management Growth Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life. And you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. [00:00:42] Jason: You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. [00:01:06] Jason: We're your hosts, property management growth experts, Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow. Now, let's get into the show. All right.  [00:01:14] Sarah: Woo!  [00:01:15] Jason: So first, you'll have to excuse if I sound a little nasally today, because I have a cold, which doesn't happen often. And I might have given it to Sarah. I don't know. [00:01:25] Sarah: My sinuses just feel weird.  [00:01:27] Jason: So.  [00:01:27] Sarah: So thanks.  [00:01:28] Jason: Yeah.  [00:01:29] Sarah: Thanks for that.  [00:01:30] Jason: Okay, so.  [00:01:31] Sarah: Appreciate it.  [00:01:32] Jason: You keep kissing me. I'm not kissing you. Like I'm not trying to get you sick.  [00:01:35] Sarah: He's not kissing me.  [00:01:36] Sarah: She can't resist.  [00:01:37] Sarah: Does anybody believe that? Nobody believes you. Nobody should.  [00:01:40] Jason: I'm sick. You keep coming up to me. [00:01:42] Jason: I'm like, you want this? Obviously she does, guys. Obviously.  [00:01:46] Sarah: Oh brother.  [00:01:47] Sarah: Alright.  [00:01:48] Sarah: What a great episode. What a great kicker offered.  [00:01:51] Jason: So I might be coughing and I apologize. Alright, so what we're talking about today is we thought we'd give you a little bit of behind the scenes into us creating an event and us doing DoorGrow Live, getting prepped and prepared for this. You know, we put an entire year into getting this thing going and getting this prepared and promoting it, finding speakers. [00:02:15] Jason: And so let's chat a little bit about some of the behind the scenes stuff.  [00:02:19] Sarah: Yeah. So one of the things that I wanted to talk about is kind of everything that really goes into it behind the scenes that when you go attend an event, you just don't notice. You just don't like realize a lot of the times, unless you're used to running events. [00:02:35] Sarah: And once you start running an event, go run one event and then you will attend every other event differently. For example, when we go to, you know, Aaron's events, or Funnel Hacking Live, my brain is constantly going, like, operationally, this must be a nightmare. How on earth are they coordinating all of this? [00:02:56] Sarah: It's just insane. Because I know how crazy it is with our conferences, and we don't yet have thousands of people there. We will, at one point. But, man, there's just so much that goes into it. So, If you're ever considering running events, and I think that for property managers and for anyone who's a real estate agent or investor, I really think events are something that you should at least look into. And it doesn't have to be this big crazy event where, you know, you spend 25- 30 thousand dollars like we do and that's kind of like a low budget, you know. That's like you'll blow through that real quick. It doesn't have to be anything like that and it definitely doesn't have to be this, you know, this big crazy promoted thing you can do your own version of events like in a very different way, back when I was in property management, you know, we would do some little networking events and they were nowhere near the size, but also nowhere near the cost, but they can be really beneficial for you to do. So I think if you haven't experimented with that, then maybe get some tips and pointers and check it out. Like try it, experiment and see what happens. Because for me, it was really great to just be connected. So there's that saying, "your net worth is in your network," and I think being able to just connect with people, make sure that people know who you are and what you do, I mean, it's really valuable. So if you're a property manager and you haven't done a little in person event yet, then perhaps you might want to try. And we're going to talk a little bit about, you know, what goes into like a bigger event the way that we run them. So why don't you give them some background? [00:04:41] Sarah: When was your first? Your first DoorGrow Live was pre-Sarah, the pre-Sarah DoorGrow age, I think it was it 2018?  [00:04:49] Jason: Yeah. 2018. 2018. Yeah. Yeah.  [00:04:51] Sarah: Okay. Can you talk about you know, what was the first DoorGrow Live like?  [00:04:57] Jason: Oh man. Yeah. And if you want to get a visual of this, you can go to, I think it's photos.doorgrow.Com and we have photos of all of our different major events. You can go back to 2018 and there's a nice photo of me and Mike Michalowicz there. And so we brought in some big, you know, for me, they were big speakers. Some people that I really looked up to and that I got a lot of value from. [00:05:22] Jason: So, coach, authors, you know, people that I had worked with. And so, it was a big deal. We spent, I think we spent about $115,000. Putting that event together because I wanted to do it, right. I didn't want my first event to be Mickey Mouse or cheap or you know, whatever So I wanted to do a really good job and I thought well, "and we'll sell tickets to make up for it." We did. We sold about a hundred and fifteen tickets at around, I think $1,000 a pop. [00:05:53] Jason: And I have a whole podcast episode I did on this. I call it my $2 million mistake because we were growing at a pace of, we were doing about a million in revenue a year and we were growing at a pace of about 300% percent at the time we were growing really quickly. We had a lot of momentum, and I decided to do this big conference. It was a little bit of an ego thing. Like it was like kind of a dream that I wanted to feel cool and be on stage and it was super stressful. The event went really well. People liked it, but I was massively stressed during it. And then I didn't do another one for how many years? I don't know.  [00:06:29] Sarah: Yeah, that was his first and only and then like canceled it  [00:06:33] Jason: I was like, "I don't think I'll do that again." [00:06:35] Sarah: Yeah.  [00:06:36] Jason: I mean I didn't realize everything that goes into it. I'm sure people were watching me start my first conference from the sidelines who have done events in the space were like, "good luck, bro," because they know how hard it can be. [00:06:47] Jason: It's like starting a whole nother business but you have to recognize there's like the hotel. It's hard to do an event that's not at a hotel. So you kind of have to do it at hotels and so they have this like, sort of, they're like the mafia. [00:07:01] Jason: They have this control over doing events. Like, and you go to them, you're like, "I want to do an event here." And they're like, "cool." And like finances become a thing and they negotiate a group rate with you, which means you have to book certain number of rooms because they want you to book rooms, and if you don't book out the group rate for the rooms in the room block, then you're responsible to pay for that. [00:07:24] Jason: So we were on the hook for like a lot of money for rooms. I'm like, "well, how many rooms does that mean? And like how many nights?" And all this stuff. So just managing finances for an event is like managing finances for a dangerous business startup is really what it is. Because people have gone bankrupt from doing big events really big events where you have two, three thousand, five thousand. These are millions and millions of dollars in and out. [00:07:48] Sarah: Yeah. [00:07:49] Jason: And if they don't navigate this well, it can bankrupt companies  [00:07:53] Sarah: Russell just said that on stage. He didn't say who, but Russell Brunson said that he knew someone that was running a big event, didn't sell enough rooms in the room block, and he went bankrupt from it because it was such a large event and he was on the hook for so much money and ended up bankrupting the company. [00:08:13] Jason: It's dangerous. And then you got to get people to buy the ticket, book the hotel, like, and then there's marketing to do this. You got to spend a lot of money to get people to do this. And then, you know, in order to attract people, sometimes people will do like big speakers. Like I got some speakers and let me tell you speakers, they're expensive. [00:08:33] Jason: Like usually they, they want thousands and thousands of dollars. Like an  [00:08:37] Sarah: inexpensive speaker just to like put it out there, like an inexpensive speaker is still usually around like 5k  [00:08:44] Jason: Anyone you've probably heard of is that minimum 25 grand.  [00:08:47] Sarah: Well more than that. [00:08:49] Jason: And if they're a big name It's 50k, 100k, it can be really expensive to have them come be in an event. [00:08:58] Jason: So, Yeah, so it can be really challenging. Then there's food and beverage minimums. So the hotel, they're like, "you also have to spend a certain amount on food and beverage while you're here." Yeah, so they're like, "you have to book a certain number of rooms. You have to, like, pay for a certain number of food and beverage, and you're not allowed to bring any other food or beverage into our place." [00:09:19] Jason: Nope.  [00:09:19] Jason: "You have to use our stuff. And our stuff is like going to the movie theater. It's overly priced, like, inflated."  [00:09:26] Sarah: Remember, we did the Game Changer event at the JW Marriott in Austin so I looked at everything afterwards and it was not a huge event. It was not a big event. We had under 20 people there. [00:09:40] Sarah: Yeah. And that included like Jason, myself, DoorGrow staff, speakers, like under 20 people. And one lunch and we had, it was a two day event. So we did like two lunches. So one lunch, I think was somewhere around like two or 3,000 dollars. Yeah, it was insane for lunch.  [00:09:57] Jason: And my first event, we spent eight grand to provide coffee for two days. Eight grand for...  [00:10:03] Sarah: coffee. Yeah.  [00:10:05] Jason: For two days like and you know, and they have all these rules. I think the rules are made to inflate the price, but they have these food and beverage and they charge you sometimes by plate. So that hotel that we were at our first event, we didn't realize this, but they have people to go around and pick up plates. [00:10:22] Jason: And you're paying by the number of plates people use. Like how much food they consume and by plate. So they were picking up plates.  [00:10:29] Sarah: Oh my god.  [00:10:30] Jason: It's a racket. Like if you go into this not knowing what you're doing, some hotels can take gross amounts of money. Wow. They negotiate a terrible group rate, they negotiate a horrible food and beverage minimum is really high for you, and then you go way over that minimum if they have anything to do with it. [00:10:45] Jason: And so you're spending all this money and they're like, "well..."  [00:10:47] Sarah: you'll never have to worry about hitting your minimum in food and beverage, like, never. No, really.  [00:10:51] Jason: I mean, if you want food there, period, like,  [00:10:54] Sarah: you're going to hit it. So, I don't care. I don't even care what my minimum is because it doesn't, honestly, it doesn't even matter.  [00:11:00] Jason: Yeah. So then people think, oh, well, then I'll do the event somewhere else. Well, if you do it somewhere else, then how are they going to get from where they're staying to the venue? And so then there's a logistical challenge. So then like people aren't like coming and it's just like it's so much easier if they walk. [00:11:17] Jason: So everything gets like complicated when you don't do it at the hotel.  [00:11:22] Sarah: Where was your first event? Where was it?  [00:11:24] Jason: It was in St. Louis at an old classic hotel. It was really beautiful.  [00:11:28] Sarah: Okay. Interesting.  [00:11:30] Jason: Yeah, we did in St. Louis. We did it at This hotel and we did it because we thought we'll make it easy because NARPM had an event around the same time. [00:11:41] Jason: So we're like, Oh man, we want to do it at the same time. So let's just do it at the same venue. I think we did it the same venue, but we booked a nicer room on the top floor with lots of windows. It was very cool. And it was on different days. So you could attend both. We thought that would give us some cross pollination and really, it didn't. [00:12:00] Jason: Like there were a few people that went to the NARPM one and came to ours, but yeah, it was like so small. So that didn't even really help. "We're like, yeah, it's so easy to stay a little longer and go to ours." [00:12:08] Sarah: Interesting. Okay. Yeah.  [00:12:10] Jason: Yeah.  [00:12:11] Sarah: So after the first DoorGrow Live, he decided, I think when I came on board, he said, "I'm never doing another event again." [00:12:18] Jason: Yeah, I just didn't want to deal with it. It was so stressful. And your whole team, that's the real part of it, is like your whole team is involved in it in different ways, unless you have someone specifically handling sales, event, marketing, planning, advertising, planning, like every role we had in our business that we needed for our business had to go towards the conference because we were now on the hook for, I can't remember, like 50, 80 grand or something with the hotel. We had to figure out how to get rooms booked. We had to figure out how to pay for speakers. It was a whole thing. It was like starting a whole nother business. And our main thing was no longer the main thing. [00:12:58] Jason: So our business stopped growing. It actually didn't grow for several years after that, like a couple of years after that. And that's why I call it my 3 million or 2 million mistake, but it was probably a bigger multi million dollar mistake than that, because there's a lot of money I could have made over those years extra. [00:13:14] Jason: We're not hurting by any means, but that really slowed things down. And I just chalk that up to being the price of tuition in business. I made a mistake. I didn't know. And I learned from it, right? And I didn't listen to my mentor. Alex was like, "make it a really small event. Make it really small. Do your first one, make it small." I'm like, "no way. I've been to so many events. I'm going to make this awesome. I want this. If I'm going to compete with all the other events that are out there, I want this to be the best." And I really think, like, we had the best food there. We had the best, like, everything was the best. [00:13:46] Jason: We had audio visual team. We had a stage set up, like, we put a lot of money into this and it was pretty awesome. Like, it went pretty well. But I was massively stressed during the whole event. And yeah, but people that went, they gave us good feedback. They had a good experience. So, which I'm glad. Then you got to like ticket sales is hard too. [00:14:06] Jason: That's a tough challenge. How do you get people to give up what they're doing to come do something else? And so, you know, we've created some really strong magic. I think at DoorGrow, like our in person events, there's just something magical about our events. There's more heart, there's more connection. [00:14:20] Jason: It changes lives and that's very different than what has happened in the space. And I think that's more just about who we are and what we bring and the type of speakers that we bring in. It's very different than just property management.  [00:14:34] Sarah: And so that's one of the things I wanted to talk about is, so you did your first event. [00:14:39] Sarah: It went well, but it was pretty crazy. We basically broke even. We're not doing another event. I came on to the business a couple years after this and there's still a lot of like trauma and PTSD associated with it and then we started talking. Well, what if we do another event? And he said "no. No I don't want to do another event," and I said, "well, what if we do it differently?" So we did bring DoorGrow Live back after that first conference that they did and we've done several of them since then. We have another one coming up in May. It's May 16th and 17th. It's a Friday and Saturday at the Kalahari Resorts in the North Austin, Texas area. So if you're watching this and you have not yet registered, then definitely go do that. You can go to doorgrowlive.Com. But we've done several of these events since then, and one of the reasons that we wanted to bring these events back, especially even though for Jason it was just so, so traumatic, we just needed to do them a little differently. [00:15:43] Sarah: So, the reason that we wanted to bring them back though is because everything is just so much different when it's in person. And we know that there's so much magic that can just happen if, you know, if we can get people in a room. It's not just going to another conference. So in the industry, there's a lot of conferences, I mean, there's tech conferences and like all the big you know softwares have their own thing and there's NARPM events and there's all kinds of things like this and DoorGrow Live is just different. It's different than all of those things. We're not trying to focus on hey, you know, what are they doing and let's duplicate it. We're focused on how can we provide like such a great experience and such great value and real connection in a like large group environment? Which is hard. [00:16:38] Sarah: Like that's a challenge. If you're like, okay, we're going to get, you know, 50 to a hundred people in a room and we want them to all be connected. That's hard. That's hard. But I think that our events do actually a really great job at that.  [00:16:49] Jason: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, we get great testimonials. It's going to we have a really cool venue We just decided to keep doing it at this Kalahari resort. [00:16:59] Jason: It's near our house. It's in Round Rock They treat us really well there. It's a big it's like we have endless room to grow there We could have thousands and thousands of people someday if we wanted to. There's plenty of room there  [00:17:12] Sarah: But they're great to work with and the rooms are nice. When you guys book a room, the rooms are nice, everything is right on property, it's very family friendly too, so, you know, if you want to kind of bring your family and usually, I've noticed sometimes people, when they go to the conference, and then their family stays at home, there's a little bit of like, "oh, you're leaving me with the kids, like, what is this? Like, you get to go off to a conference and," well, come, like, come with us and you guys can hang out at, like the water park and the Build A Bear and the restaurants and the like arcade and there's still...  [00:17:48] Jason: America's largest indoor water park. Yeah. Yeah.  [00:17:52] Sarah: And I think when you book a room, they include a ticket. [00:17:53] Sarah: Yeah.  [00:17:54] Jason: You get a ticket to all a bunch of cool stuff. So like you get a, like a wristband. So yeah it's a pretty fun place. Like there's a whole Facebook group just for people looking for deals and discounts to stay at this resort. Yeah. They're like always talking about it in that group. I've joined all the local groups, just see what's going on. [00:18:15] Jason: So, yeah, so it's pretty interesting. So yeah, we've got a really cool venue. And oh, the other things places have charged us for other places we've done some of our events they charge us for electricity, they charge us for, like, just having cords put down.  [00:18:31] Sarah: They charge for internet. [00:18:32] Jason: They find a way to charge you for everything at some venues, and so, not all venues are equal. [00:18:38] Jason: So, yeah, so we've really appreciated the Kalahari Resort in Round Rock. It's a cool resort, and they treat us really well there, so.  [00:18:45] Sarah: Yeah, and it's a great experience for people. Because that's really frustrating when you go into any kind of hotel and you're like, "Oh. Why is this where I'm at? I guess I'll be here because the conference is here, but outside of the conference being here, I would never book here." And this is not that at all. Like people like to book here for sure. I think now let's do our little demo and then we'll get back into it.  [00:19:08] Jason: Got a little sponsor for today's episode, KRS SmartBooks. [00:19:13] Jason: Do you have properties to manage and zero time for bookkeeping headaches? KRS SmartBooks is your secret weapon. They specialize in finances for busy property managers like you with 15 plus years of real estate know how and skills in Appfolio, Yardi, and more. Imagine monthly reports magically appearing and zero accounting stress. [00:19:35] Jason: Sound good? Head to KRS Books. At K as in Kansas, R as in Roger, S as in Sam. Books. Sarah's already dying. She's like, you didn't do the right military phonetically.  [00:19:46] Sarah: I really am dying inside.  [00:19:47] Jason: KRSbooks. com to book your free discovery call. Integrity, quality, and a dash of bookkeeping brilliance. That's KRS Smart Books. [00:19:58] Jason: Alright, how should I phonetically do KRS?  [00:20:00] Sarah: K like Kilo, R like Romeo, S like Sierra.  [00:20:04] Jason: Alright, Sarah, by the way, is Becoming a pilot. She's taking pilot flying lessons.  [00:20:11] Sarah: I've known the military code for years  [00:20:13] Sarah: because I used to work in a casino and that's how they would communicate in slot machines.  [00:20:20] Jason: Yeah, alright. [00:20:21] Sarah: But now it's also handy being a pilot.  [00:20:24] Jason: Okay.  [00:20:24] Sarah: Alright, so if that sounds good, I think it sounds really great. Because I know a lot of property managers struggle with bookkeeping, and that's usually not something that's fun for property managers. It's definitely necessary, but it, oh man, it's not fun, and it's really draining. [00:20:38] Sarah: So if you can find someone that's great at what they do, and you can allow them to handle that, and just kind of check in and make sure things are going well, then, whoo, man, life gets a lot easier.  [00:20:51] Jason: Yeah if you're not paying attention to the finances or the financial health of your business or your accounting You're probably getting stolen from it's just I've seen it happen so many times. [00:21:01] Jason: So get a great bookkeeper. Yeah have people you trust to take care of that. Okay.  [00:21:07] Sarah: So speaking of finances, let's talk a little bit about what kind of goes into an event. So for example, we have our DoorGrow Live coming up in May this year. So we have been working on this event now since, so our last one was in May, and then I think we started working on the new one in like July, June or July. [00:21:31] Sarah: So things that have to kind of happen just to be able to have the space, obviously, you have to look into venues, you have to, you know, look at the space, make sure it's going to work for the size of your group, which means you kind of have to estimate a little bit what it's going to look like, and then make sure that the room can. [00:21:48] Sarah: fit more or less if needed.  [00:21:51] Jason: You've got to negotiate with the hotel.  [00:21:53] Sarah: Yep. You've got to negotiate what the rates would be. You know, am I paying for the space or am I paying for the room block and the food? Because there's different ways to do it. So you've got to figure out, you know, how many rooms in the room block do I need? [00:22:09] Sarah: Because if you overestimate that, if you go, "Hey, I think I'm going to have a thousand people come" and 100 people come, it is not going to be a good time for you because every room in the room block that is not sold, you are financially on the hook for. So you get to pay for that. And it's like, it's a certain number of nights. [00:22:28] Sarah: So it's not even so much how many rooms it's, how many nights someone will book. So you want to track that along the way. And then you want to start looking at a lot of the tactical things that go into it, like, well, who is going to speak at the event? So you want to start looking at speakers and when you're looking at speakers, you start to think about, you know, who would our audience resonate with and what kind of value would they provide? [00:22:55] Sarah: And, you know, is this strategic and tactical stuff or is this like mindset and empowerment stuff? Because you kind of want to get a mix of both at each event because everyone who comes to an event They're looking for a different thing. So it's really impossible to satisfy everybody make sure everybody, you know is super happy with everything sometimes people say, "oh, I wish there was more of this and oh, I wish there was more of that," but you kind of have to do like this balance and mix to make sure that everybody gets something out of it. [00:23:25] Sarah: And that they have a great experience. You also want to build a little bit of fun into it. So that it's not just, "hey, show up to this conference, sit down, learn something, take some notes and walk out of the room." You know, we've been to events like that before. Where it's like, "okay, that was a lot. But also, man, it would have been really cool to like, do something fun and you know connect with people," so you want to you know start to build in some time so that people can connect with other people, you know, so are you going to do a mixer? [00:23:52] Sarah: Are you going to do some sort of networking event? You know, are you going to you know go do kind of some fun event before like the night before? Are you going to, you know, send them off to lunch together? What is that going to look like? So that they can really connect with each other especially when you've got a room full of people who are in the same sector, in the same industry, there's so much knowledge in that room. [00:24:15] Sarah: So just talking to other people in the room is really valuable and making connections. So there's got to be some room for that as well. And then you want to think about well, are we going to have any vendors or sponsors? Yeah, and are those vendors or sponsors people that have services that are valuable and that we trust? Because there have also been times where, you know, someone had wanted to sponsor us and we did not want them to be a sponsor. [00:24:43] Sarah: Because if they don't provide a great service, you know, can you throw some money and be in the room? Yeah, but if it's not the right person to be in the room, then that matters. That matters a lot. So we have turned down money. We've turned down sponsorships. So then you also have to think about all of the tactical things. [00:25:05] Sarah: Well, you know, am I doing round tables? Am I doing classroom style? Are we doing full circles? Are we doing semi circles? Like what is the front of the room? And what's the back of the room? And where are the vendors going to be? And what doors do people walk in and out of? And as soon as they walk in, what is the first thing that they see? [00:25:20] Sarah: In what direction do we want to go in? And are they crossing over our equipment? Is somebody going to trip and fall on all the 10,000 chords that we have like taped down and. Then you have to also think about things like your AV. So does the room have internet? Is there power in the room? And I know that seems like a silly question to ask, but guess what? [00:25:40] Sarah: Sometimes they charge you for power. So you would think, hey, there's power in the room, obviously, because like it's at a hotel. They obviously have electricity. Yeah, but do you have to pay for it?  [00:25:49] Jason: Yeah, AV is expensive. Like we rented it initially and it was so costly.  [00:25:54] Sarah: Yeah.  [00:25:54] Jason: For the price you could rent it for it made sense to just buy it. [00:25:58] Sarah: To buy it.  [00:25:59] Jason: And so we eventually bought all our own equipment, but that means now we have to set it up and we have to figure it out. And so, yeah, so there's always a challenge.  [00:26:08] Sarah: Before the actual conference, like before anybody even steps foot like on property, Jason and I and several members of our team are there setting things up. [00:26:18] Jason: Sometimes my kids. Yeah,  [00:26:19] Sarah: sometimes the kids, sometimes an assistant, sometimes Madi comes on in.  [00:26:22] Jason: We're hooking up lights, we're plugging in audio equipment.  [00:26:25] Sarah: So we like pack everything up in Jason's SUV. We drive it over, we unload it. I'm doing this in stilettos, mind you, because I'm a stubborn  [00:26:33] Jason: You do everything in stilettos. [00:26:33] Sarah: Yeah, that's what I am. Right, so we like, we get there, we unpack it, we have to set it all up. You know, we're making sure that, like, all the lights are working, a sound system has to work, because there's no point in having a microphone if it's not going to work. There's always technical errors, and I'm horrible with technology, so Jason is our tech person, and he is the only tech person that we have. [00:26:54] Sarah: So he gets to figure everything out. And then it's like, you know, is the screen working? And can people see it? And is the laptop connecting to the screen? And is it blurry or is it too big or too far? Like there's always these weird little issues that happen and I don't know how to solve any of them. [00:27:10] Sarah: Yeah, so Jason knows how to do that. And then there's the other things like well. What about swag? And you know, are we doing a registration table and who's going to be there to, you know, check people in and make sure they know what to do and they know where to go? And, you know, is there like just kind of first come first serve seating? [00:27:27] Sarah: Or is there like a separate section for, you know, special clients or VIP clients or speakers or the team? And there's also things like, "Oh, well what about name badges?" You know, are we doing, like, are we doing name badges? Are we, you know, making sure that everybody kind of knows who everybody else is? Is there anything special or is it just like a bunch of people walking into a room and then hopefully they figure out that they're in the right room? Like there's so much that goes into it and then there's the scheduling. So well, you know, who's going to go in what order, what day and time are certain speakers available? Because just because they commit to an event doesn't mean, "oh, I can speak at any point during the event." [00:28:11] Sarah: So, you know, it's putting the agenda together and how long do you give them for lunch and where are they going for lunch? And are we doing lunch? Are we, you know, letting them facilitate it on their own? Are we doing breaks? How do we get them back from breaks? Are we, it's crazy. Like it's so, there's so much. [00:28:28] Jason: If you give people a break at an event, it's like 30 minutes of downtime. Oh yeah. It's really hard to get people to like get to the next thing or come back right away. And they all start talking to each other, which is cool. They want to network. Yeah, so getting people back from lunch.  [00:28:43] Sarah: Yes, absolutely. Yes. [00:28:45] Sarah: And then it's, you know, who kicks off the event? Who opens it? Who closes it? Who's going after lunch? Because we all know most people, what happens to them after lunch? They're tired. I'm fine. But a lot of people, they're tired after lunch. So you can't have a, you know, more mundane or quiet or low energy speaker after lunch. [00:29:06] Sarah: You just can't. Because you'll lose everybody. So there's a lot that goes into the scheduling as well. And then there's things like, you know, who's going to MC it? Who's making announcements? Who's making sure that everybody knows where to be? And what time? And what to do and when to come back? And who's doing the intros for speakers? [00:29:26] Sarah: Are you doing music for every speaker that comes up? If so, like, are they picking it? Are you picking it? What happens? Like there is so so so much that goes into it, and then after you like run the event then you got to break it all down if it's your equipment. Yeah, so then it's like pack it all up and put it away and make sure nothing gets damaged or lost and repack the car and unload it again, and like there is so much that goes Into it. [00:29:53] Sarah: And I would say at this point, it's funny because Jason now can show up to DoorGrow Live and nine out of 10 times, he has no idea what's going to happen or when.  [00:30:05] Sarah: I love it.  [00:30:06] Sarah: I just call him up on stage and he's like, oh, okay, because, and I'm like, my team handle most of it. Talking on this go.  [00:30:12] Jason: Right now. I still just have to make sure the tech stuff all works. [00:30:15] Jason: But yeah, other than that, yeah, I don't. I don't have to do as much which is nice, but because it's stressful enough. It's stressful enough So yeah, so it's a lot. There's a lot that goes into it, but it's been worth it to have you know to see people's lives change to see people impacted. We've noticed there's some sort of magic that happens that when people come to something in person with us even if they've been a client for years, they start to get different results. [00:30:40] Jason: They start to see things differently. They start to absorb all of our content, our information, our training material, our ideas more effectively. Everything just magnifies. There's something about in person. You can't get the same sort of benefit in your business. If you think, "all I need to do is read books and watch videos and show up to zoom calls to grow my business. [00:31:04] Jason: Look, there's a lot of benefits in all of those things. I do all those things, but we still go to in person things. There's something different about in person that I don't know if it's the energy of being in the same space as the people you're learning from. If it's the group energy and that group mind that makes you able to like learn and faster. [00:31:23] Jason: There's, but there's some, I don't know if maybe there's some quantum physical magic, magical stuff, but there's something different about it in person. It's happened too many times for me to like believe otherwise or to dismiss it. I've had too many clients that I've been working with for years, go to their first in person thing with us, and then they have some breakthrough. And I'm like what? And they tell me about it, and I'm like, "I've been teaching you that for years!" Like "I know but like but it's just hit differently." [00:31:51] Jason: Yeah, "I just got it." [00:31:52] Sarah: It hits different. It feels different and you just absorb things. [00:31:57] Jason: And because we've seen this pattern, we've seen this pattern, we now make it part of our onboarding of every new client to come hang out with Sarah and I in person for a one day with usually a small cohort and like, and just get some things figured out and dialed in their business. [00:32:14] Jason: And that's been magic for our business. Like it's been magic for our clients, magic for us. So we give them that in person experience early on. And then DoorGrow Live allows them to connect with others, which is there's just something different about the people at DoorGrow. The property managers at DoorGrow are different. [00:32:30] Jason: I've been to a lot of conferences. A lot. Like in various industries, but especially in property management. And there's something different about the people that we attract and the clients that we attract. They're growth minded, they're positive active in mentalities, which means they're not like the skeptical, negative Nancy's that are grumpy about the industry and the business. [00:32:51] Jason: That there's this positive growth minded, healthier sort of personality that we attract at DoorGrow. And maybe that says a little bit about who we are, because that's what I tried to be. But we attract amazing people and the connections people make, when you're connecting with other people that are like you, that are growth minded and you both share an industry and a share a business model, like it really helps you grow. [00:33:15] Jason: Your business is the sum of the five property management business owners you as a business owner are most connected to or that you're most influenced by. So look at those property managers if you've got coaches or mentors, and they're not people that you really like that maybe you think they're smart, but you don't really want to be more like them, then maybe you're around the wrong people. [00:33:34] Jason: Maybe you have the wrong coach, and I'm not the coach for everybody. Sarah's not the coach for everybody. But you should have a coach. Otherwise, you're selling yourself short if you're not accountable to anybody, you're definitely getting less results than you could or should be so come to DoorGrow Live come check us out. This DoorGrow Live, [00:33:52] Jason: I want to open our playbooks up if Sarah lets me. I want to just reveal some really amazing stuff that only our clients get to see because I want to show anyone that shows up that's not part of our DoorGrow ecosystem. Our clients know the magic's there. We have more case studies or testimonials than anyone else in the industry, but if you're not a DoorGrow client, and you want to come to DoorGrow Live I'm going to give you some gifts for sure, some magic. We're going to make some significant changes in your business. They're going to help you make a lot more money a lot more easily and keep a lot more of your profit and so come hang out with us. [00:34:29] Jason: You're not going to be disappointed for sure So there you go.  [00:34:33] Sarah: Yeah. This event we've got some really awesome things planned. We can't let too much out of the bag at this point. But we always have some really great things planned and every event we do, like we always learn from it. [00:34:46] Sarah: And we always do like a little team meeting afterwards and we get feedback from people. We're always looking to make it better and better. And this year is absolutely no exception to that. So the things that we have planned for this year, like I know that if you come to this event, it will change your business and it will change your life. [00:35:12] Sarah: And I know that's a really bold statement and we're ready to back it.  [00:35:16] Jason: Yeah. And maybe that could be a later podcast episode as we get closer to the event. But we can tell you a little bit more about what's going to be happening there, but hopefully this was interesting to get behind the scenes at all that goes into DoorGrow Live and we meet on this you know, we're talking about it weekly, monthly in our planning meetings, like and quarterly. [00:35:37] Jason: And so, and that's it for today's episode. So if you are interested in that, go check it out at DoorGrowLive.Com and get your tickets and get things booked and get ready to come have an amazing experience in May at DoorGrow Live. So, and until next time to our mutual growth, bye everyone. 

Why did you decide to own a property management business instead of working for someone else? Did you just want money, or was it something deeper that drove you to become an entrepreneur? In this episode of The Property Management Growth Show, industry growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Rich Walker, Founder of Quik! Forms to discuss adaptability as an entrepreneur and embracing change. You'll Learn [01:55] Entrepreneurial Tendancies from a Young Age [13:49] Reasons for Starting a Business [20:08] Embracing Change and Facing Adversity [30:31] The Power of In-Person Interaction Quotables “ You build something people want, they'll pay you for it.” “There's no value in worry.” “We think we want more money because we think it's going to give us more freedom and fulfillment, but we actually have less fulfillment and less freedom the more money we make.” “If everybody thinks they're right, then my beliefs can be just as right.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Rich: What do you get when you have your best work? [00:00:01] Rich: You get joy, you get fulfillment, you get productivity, you get engagement and you get the highest possible outcome from every person on your team. That's why I'm an entrepreneur more than anything else. [00:00:11] Jason: All right. Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the property management growth show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, impact lives, help others, and you're interested in growing your business and life and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management, growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show. [00:01:13] Jason: And my guest today, I'm hanging out with a local Austinite, fellow friend that I know locally, CEO and co founder of Quik! Forms Processing, Rich Walker. Welcome Rich.  [00:01:26] Rich: Hey everybody. Really an honor to be here. Jason. Thanks for having me on your show today.  [00:01:30] Jason: Yeah, glad to have you. [00:01:31] Jason: So you're doing some really cool stuff in business. And it's been great. We're in a mastermind locally together. And and you're going to be speaking to our audience at DoorGrow Live, you know, for those listening, make sure you get your tickets to DoorGrow Live. And you've written some books, like tell everybody, give us some background on Rich and how you kind of got into entrepreneurism and like, what you do. [00:01:55] Rich: So, well, boy, this could be a long story or I'll try to keep it brief. Look, I grew up very poor. I was the product of a broken household, if you will. And I learned very early on that if you make something people want, they'll pay you for it. It's amazing. So I started my first business at age 12. I took a $300 investment and turned it into over $1,100 in one day at an event. [00:02:18] Rich: And I was stunned. I was just struck with all these people handing me fistfuls of cash to buy my product. And I said, "wow, this is what I'm going to be. I'm going to be an entrepreneur. I'm going to build businesses." [00:02:29] Jason: What was the product at age 12?  [00:02:31] Rich: Oh, man. So I should show it to you. I'd have to go off screen to get it. [00:02:35] Rich: But if you know what surgical tubing looks like stretchy latex tubing, and you know what a pen tip looks like, take the pen tip, shove it into the tube, tie a knot on the other end, and then get a garden hose with a cone shaped nozzle and it blows up a long tube of water. Like a squirt gun. Yeah, we called them water weenies. [00:02:52] Rich: Yeah, I made those. Yeah! Yeah.  [00:02:56] Rich: So, but imagine before the super soaker came out, what were your options? You had water balloons, hand grenades, you had squirt guns that went five feet, you had the hose stuck to the house and then water weenies, which squirted 30 feet and carried gallons of water on your back. [00:03:13] Rich: So you are the king of the water fights.  [00:03:15] Jason: Yeah, and you got a good workout.  [00:03:18] Rich: Yeah, amazing.  [00:03:19] Jason: How long were these tubes? How long would you cut them?  [00:03:23] Rich: The longest cut length would be three feet, but when it filled up, it was nine feet. So imagine, draped around your neck, down to your toes, with water.  [00:03:31] Jason: Nine feet of water filled hose. [00:03:32] Jason: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:03:33] Rich: Yeah. So you were just a walking, like fire truck.  [00:03:36] Jason: I just got back from funnel hacking live and Russell Brunson always shares a story of starting by selling potato guns online, like how to build potato guns. This sounds very reminiscent.  [00:03:47] Rich: Yeah, very much. It was a really awesome experience. I mean, honestly, going from having nothing to having money in my hands. [00:03:54] Rich: And actually I saved up money at age 12, just about to turn 13. I saved it until I bought my first car when I turned 16.  [00:04:01] Jason: Wow. Wow. All right. So you ever heard of the marshmallow tests they give kids? I'm not sure. It's like, it's delayed gratification versus instant gratification, right? So they put a marshmallow in front of them and they make them wait with it. [00:04:14] Jason: And they're like, you can eat this marshmallow, but if you don't eat it by the time I get back, then I'll give you two marshmallows or something like this. I think it's how it goes. And most kids fail. They're like, "Oh, I really want that." Or they'll put cookie or whatever it is, you know, showing you saving money, when there's like, you could buy video games as a kid, like whatever, right? That's some serious delayed gratification right there, so.  [00:04:38] Rich: You know, Jason, I got to tell a bigger story here because really this is what happened at age eight, I went to my friend's house and my friend had a radio controlled car. [00:04:46] Rich: It was a kit you had to build yourself, but it would drive 35 miles per hour off road. It was amazing. This is the eighties, right? Yeah. And I wanted that car so bad. And we were so poor. There was no way my parents were going to buy me a $300 car. And in today's money, that's like 12 to 1500 bucks. Okay. Yes. [00:05:03] Rich: So that's not going to happen. So I started saving my money, birthday, Christmas money. I would sell candy around the neighborhood. I would rake leaves for a neighbor and make $2. Anything I could do, anything I could do to save money. It took me four years. To save up the $300. And that summer that I got introduced to water weenies was by my neighbor. He was a supplier to physicians. His son and I played all the time. And he came out and gave us these water weenies to play with, but then he took them back and all the other kids wanted one. So I was kind of observant and I said, "Hey, In your shed, I see a reel of tubing. Can I buy that from you?" [00:05:36] Rich: It was like 25 feet of tubing. "He's like, okay, how much?" It was like 12 bucks or something. Ran home, grabbed the money out of my bank account, gave it to him, went home, started cutting links, destroyed every pen in my house and started selling. And within a day or two, I had sold $50 worth of stuff. So I went and bought another 25 feet and sold another $50 bucks. [00:05:53] Rich: Then I went to summer camp and I rode my bike and squirted every kid I could find had 20 kids chasing me on my bike. And then I'd sell them all the water. So over that course of that summer, I got to the $300 mark and I bought the car. Now, my uncle saw all this behavior and said, "Rich next summer, I'm hosting fourth of July. [00:06:10] Rich: You could have a booth and sell these water weenies there. Would you like to do that?" I'm like, "yeah, absolutely." Months and months go by, go through winter, go into spring, my mom reminds me of this opportunity. And I'm like, okay, so I go to my neighbor, "How much for a thousand feet of tubing?" "300 bucks." [00:06:24] Rich: Guess what I don't have? I don't have 300 anymore.  [00:06:27] Jason: Yeah.  [00:06:27] Rich: So I said to him, "Hey, look, your son is about to have his birthday. Wouldn't it be cool if he had this RC car? He loves playing with it. Would you barter with me and trade me for the tubing?" And the guy's a saint. Honestly, I wish I could find him and say thank you because he did it. [00:06:42] Rich: His son got a great car. I got the tubing. I wrote a letter to Scripto pen company and said, "Hey, I'm doing a project. I need some sample pen tips. Would you mind sending me some?" They sent me a box of 5,000 pen tips for free.  [00:06:52] Jason: What?  [00:06:53] Rich: No cost. And so then I had all the materials to put it together and showed up at 4th of July, started selling by 7am, sold out by 1pm. [00:07:01] Rich: And this is why I said I had fist fulls of money. I had people at this, you know, long table. I had people out eight to 10 people deep lined up to buy these things. And it's all I could do is to take money and give them a water weenie. My pockets filled up with cash and my mom would pull the cash out of my pockets and put it in a safe box over and over again that day. [00:07:18] Jason: What were you selling each one for  [00:07:20] Rich: Anywhere from like $1.50-4.00 or something, depending on the length.  [00:07:24] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:25] Rich: Yeah.  [00:07:25] Jason: Okay.  [00:07:26] Rich: It was such an incredible experience. And that's why I said, man, I'm going to be an entrepreneur. So I just knew that I was bitten and I had to do this and look, I'm age 50 now, my company that I own today, Quik! Just celebrated our 23rd anniversary, and I've started 10, about 10 different business ventures and companies since age 12. So I've always just had this desire to fulfill my own sense of freedom and creativity and serve people. Yeah. So yeah, that's really the genesis of it. [00:07:55] Rich: Like you build something people want, they'll pay you for it. And it's an amazing thing.  [00:07:59] Jason: I love it. You see a problem, you saw an opportunity. And lots of other people saw the problem. They just didn't see the opportunity. They're like, man, I would love that one of these. It's nice, you know, and you were able to fill that need. [00:08:12] Jason: So that's a great story. Love that story. That's how you kind of got it like, you know, bit by the bug of entrepreneurism.  [00:08:19] Rich: Yeah. Now, the Quik! company started because in the nineties, I worked at other companies that worked at Arthur Anderson, for example, and I learned technology, especially from like a backend perspective of big tech. How does it all work? How does it flow together? And I decided to get out of tech consulting late in the year 2000.  [00:08:39] Jason: Yeah.  [00:08:39] Rich: And in doing that, I really went back to my degree in college, which was finance and said, "I really love finance. Let me help people with their money." So I became a financial advisor. [00:08:47] Jason: Okay.  [00:08:48] Rich: And in doing that. You go out and get your licenses, you work really hard for all that, you work really hard to gain the trust and respect of your first client, and then they finally say, "yes, I will open an account with you," and guess what your reward is? Yeah, fine, you can make a commission that's a reward. [00:09:01] Rich: No, you get to handwrite paperwork. And I thought, man, this sucks. I am not going to make $4 an hour handwriting paperwork for people. I used to charge $200 an hour as a consultant, so how do I fix this problem? And I decided to build software, because I was a technologist, that would fill out my forms. Jason, it was a hack. [00:09:19] Rich: It was a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet with fields overlaid on images. It was just a hack. It just made it work, but everybody around me for six months kept saying, "Rich, give me your software. I hate filling out forms," and I was in this quandary of, "wow, I have found a need. But I want to be a financial advisor. What do I do?" And after six months, I finally said, "okay, let's build the product." So we did our first install in February 11, 2002 and never looked back. I mean, we found out people really wanted this and it's changing people's lives. It was empowering them to do their best work, which is not paperwork. And today we manage a library of over 42,000 forms. [00:09:57] Rich: And we generate over a million forms every month across wealth management industry, serving well over a hundred thousand financial professionals.  [00:10:05] Jason: Yeah.  [00:10:05] Rich: So yeah. Yeah.  [00:10:07] Jason: That's awesome. Yeah. I had a short job. I worked for a while at Verizon, like in their business DSL tech support. Like I was an internet support guy and after every call, it was a call center, after every call that we did, we had to fill out this ridiculous form it just took so much time and we were measured on the time that we were unavailable between calls and how many calls we completed. And so I found some sort of like macro tool because there was only like three, maybe four types of tickets that we would do. [00:10:40] Jason: It was always the same sort of challenges. But we had to fill out all of these fields of ridiculous, stupid stuff. And so I use this macro tool that basically if I type a certain thing, it would just spit out a whole bunch of other stuff and it would go tab from field and fill it all out. And so I set this up because I started to see these patterns. [00:11:00] Jason: And so then I, similar to what you did I solved the problem for myself. So I built this thing that I could then just do this type of ticket, this type of ticket. And then there were other people on the floor and they're like, "man, I'm going to get fired. I can't do this. I can't do this fast enough." [00:11:14] Jason: Well, so then I'm starting to help people. So now I'm like a virus on the floor and the managers didn't like me for some reason. Like my manager did not like that I was doing this. I don't know why. Because maybe he didn't come up with the idea. I don't know. Yeah. Then I'm starting to help other people so they don't get fired, and I'm showing, you know, other people on the floor, how to set this up and how to do this and giving them my formula and, you know, for the script language for how to do this. And they're able to close their tickets out like really fast. They're just like "bloop!", and it's like "vrrrrrr", and they're like, cool next. [00:11:47] Jason: Right. And what was baffling to me at the time is that it was not seen as a positive by my superiors. It was seen as a problem and I'm like you are an idiot and this is where I kind of realized Like a lot of times, you know, you've heard of the Peter principle? Yeah. Which for those listening... [00:12:09] Rich: You're at your highest level of mediocrity.  [00:12:12] Jason: Or incompetence. [00:12:13] Jason: Right?  [00:12:14] Jason: And so, yeah, which means basically people get promoted because they're good at a certain level and then they get promoted again, just beyond their current capacity or ability to perform well. And now they're at a level where they are no longer able to intellectually maybe rise to the occasion or be good. [00:12:32] Jason: And so businesses are just full or rife with all of these people that like, especially big organizations, cause I was at HP. You know, I just saw it everywhere. I always had idiots like above me is what it felt like that were telling me I couldn't do things or slowing me down and I'm like, "don't you see?" [00:12:50] Jason: And then what would happen is months later, that idea that I was trying to push that they were fighting me on was their new idea. They're like, "I have this new idea."  [00:13:01] Rich: What you're explaining is the real truth. And it took me a while to figure this out for why I'm an entrepreneur.  [00:13:07] Jason: Yeah.  [00:13:08] Rich: I want to be able to do my best work and anytime I've worked for others, I've been limited and held back.   [00:13:14] Rich: So I really was seeking a way to empower myself to do my best work. And in my company, in our culture, it boils down to empowering others to do their best work. I want my team to do their best work. I want my vendors and my partners and my customers to all do their best work. Because what do you get when you have your best work? [00:13:31] Rich: You get joy, you get fulfillment, you get productivity, you get engagement and you get the highest possible outcome from every person on your team. That's why I'm an entrepreneur more than anything else. I mean, yeah. Ooh, I'd like to make money. Oh, I want freedom. I want creativity, but honestly, at the core of it, how do I get to do my best? [00:13:49] Jason: I love this. So some of you listening to this episode, you've heard me talk about my framework of the four reasons for starting a business. I call it the four reasons. And this is what makes us different than everyone else on the planet. And we're rare. Entrepreneurs are rare people. We are the minority. [00:14:05] Jason: We feel like we're living on a planet as aliens a lot of times. We're like, "why doesn't everyone think this way?" It's super weird. So entrepreneurs, the reason we start businesses is we want four things. We think we want money, usually in the beginning. But what we really want is what money will give us. [00:14:22] Jason: And that's these things. It's freedom. Well, first is fulfillment. The most important is fulfillment. We want to enjoy life, enjoy what we're doing, make a difference, whatever but we want fulfillment in whatever that means to us. And then second, we want freedom. We want autonomy. Usually in the beginning, we have, we start trying to start a business. [00:14:40] Jason: We think we want more money because we think it's going to give us more freedom and fulfillment, but we actually have less fulfillment and less freedom the more money we make. And so then we start to wake up like, "Hey, this sucks. Like, how do I like be pickier about my clients or how do I change this?" [00:14:56] Jason: You know? But fulfillment and freedom are one and two. Third, once we have those, we want contribution. We want to feel like we're making a difference, having an impact and we want to benefit other people. And that's what a business is designed to do, right? Solve real problems in the marketplace. [00:15:10] Jason: It's contribution. If not, it's snake oil, right? It's taking people's money. So fourth, once we have fulfillment, freedom, contribution, the fourth is we need support. And that's why we build a business because we can't max out on fulfillment, freedom, contribution if we are wearing every hat and we're miserable. [00:15:29] Jason: Yeah. Because we don't want to do everything. Not everything is fun for us. right? There's the pieces you love and there's pieces you just don't love, right? And that's true for every business owner, but we're all different. Like some of us love accounting. Some of us don't love accounting, right? Some of us love sales. [00:15:44] Jason: Some of us don't love sales, right? Some of us love ops. Some of us are bad at ops, right? And so, there is though what I call the fifth reason. This is what makes everyone else different than us. We want this one too, but everyone else in the planet prioritizes this fifth reason over the first four. [00:16:02] Jason: It's safety and security. Oh, right. Yeah. They want that. That's more important than freedom, fulfillment. They will give up freedom. You saw this during the pandemic. Most people were like, "forget your freedoms. I want to feel safe. Give me safety and security." Right. I remember here in, I was in North Austin. I went to Costco during the pandemic and masks were kind of optional, right? They were optional. And I'm walking around Costco without a mask and everyone else has masks on for the most part. And anyone that didn't have a mask, I was like, "Hey, do you own a business?" And they're like, "yeah." And we're looking at each other like we know like the world's gone fucking nuts. Like, what's going on? We had a knowing like, "yeah, everyone's crazy."  [00:16:42] Rich: Man, I wish I'd asked that question. I would have met a lot more entrepreneurs that way. Because I was out there, no mask, any chance I got. Right. I mean, I didn't want confrontation with people. [00:16:51] Jason: And for those listening, there's nothing wrong with this, right? We need both, right? Not everyone can be entrepreneurial. It would be a crazy world, right? We need people that are willing to work for us, right? We need both. And they want the four reasons too. Like nobody's going to say, "Oh, I don't want freedom." But they want safety and security first and that's most people on the planet. [00:17:11] Jason: And so psychologically, entrepreneurs, we're just wired different. We will give up safety and security in order to have freedom and fulfillment.  [00:17:20] Rich: I'll tell you how I did that, Jason.  [00:17:21] Jason: Yeah.  [00:17:22] Rich: So imagine, I'm a tech consultant charging $200 an hour. I'm making $350,000 a year. I'm age 24 or 25, driving my dream car. [00:17:31] Rich: I have everything. Yeah. I go become a financial advisor and I make very little money. I mean, I had savings basically, and then I start the software company. I have no income. I literally say, "I'm going to start this company." I have zero income. I had no house, no wife, no kids. So, I mean, that made it easier. [00:17:49] Rich: And for the first ...  [00:17:51] Jason: people will say "you're nuts". They're already saying he's crazy. But every entrepreneur listening is like we get it.  [00:17:55] Rich: No, that's what you do. I cashed out my 401k. I sold the dream car, cashed out any equity I had in that. I bought a cheaper car, et cetera. [00:18:03] Rich: And then I said, "okay, I'm going to have my dream car back in a year or two." Yeah. In the first four years of my business, my income was $1,000 a month. I mean, I made $12,000 year for four years straight. And so here's the thing. A thousand dollars a month doesn't pay my rent. My rent was $1200 to $1500 during that time. [00:18:21] Jason: Right.  [00:18:22] Rich: So here's the question that you'd ask yourself. How did you sleep at night? And I'll tell you this one thing. Every time I paid rent on the first of the month, I actually did not know how I would have the money in 30 days to pay rent again, right? So how do you sleep at night? I slept great. It never bothered me. [00:18:39] Rich: I didn't lose one minute of sleep over that financial burden. Okay. I just looked at it as that's another tool I've got to figure out how to make money with this. And there were things that happened. It's like sometimes a big credit card bill came through when somebody bought our software or sometimes I borrowed money off the credit card to pay the bill. [00:18:58] Rich: It was just different things happen. And you know what, in those four years? I was never late once. My wife and I contrast. She could not do that. She just cannot live that way, she could never have that kind of risk profile for me. I was just like, "yeah, whatever. I'll figure it out every single time." [00:19:13] Jason: So you trusted. You trusted yourself and maybe God, I don't know, but you trusted your ability to create, right? You knew you had confidence you could create money.  [00:19:24] Rich: Yeah. And I learned that being poor. I mean, in college, I went to USC, one of the most expensive schools around, but I paid my own way to go there. [00:19:33] Rich: And during college, there were so many weeks, I can't even count them, where I'd wake up on Monday with exactly $5 to my name. That's all the money I had access to. And I had to get to Friday before I got my paycheck and I had to pay for parking and food, et cetera. I was so scrappy. I would look at what ads were in the paper and I find people doing focus groups that would pay me $10 for 30 minutes of my time to go pretend to shop and pick products. [00:19:58] Rich: So I'd go make an extra 10 bucks and now I had triple my money to get through the week. I did so many creative things. So I knew at that point, like, yeah, money is just a tool. We'll figure it out. We'll always make it work. So, you know, I want to bring this up because this is the thing, you know, you mentioned at the start of the show that I'm going to be at your event, the #DoorGrowShow, right? [00:20:15] Rich: DoorGrow Live. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And what I'm going to talk about is one of my books and it's called, "It's My Life!". I'm going to hold it up for anybody watching. "It's My Life! I can have..." sorry, there's two books. "I can change if I want to." My other book's called "It's my life! I can have the job I want," but I'm going to talk about change. Because one of the questions inherent to this problem of how do you go through these hardships? [00:20:38] Rich: How do you go through these struggles, which would stress most people out like crazy? Comes down to your ability to handle change.  [00:20:46] Rich: And it starts with you. Adaptability. Yeah. Now, look, I was forced into it because. I'm 50, but I've moved 33 times in my life. I had moved 29 times by the time I was 32. [00:20:58] Rich: Wow.  [00:20:59] Rich: And I was forced to move as a kid. I had no choice about that. I was forced to make new friends. I was forced to go into new schools and new cities and new states.  [00:21:06] Jason: Military family or...? [00:21:08] Rich: No. Divorces. Job transfers, etc.  [00:21:11] Jason: That's a lot of change, a lot of turmoil. Yeah.  [00:21:14] Rich: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, really a very challenging childhood that I don't look back on with any negativity towards, but I was forced to learn how to change and adapt to change. [00:21:25] Rich: And out of that, around age 12, I developed a methodology for how I could change myself and the behaviors and the feelings I had. Because I started to look at the world. This actually comes from religion. I mean, you brought up God. My father was a minister in a church when I was born, but it was very extreme. It was considered a cult. [00:21:41] Rich: My stepfather was in the Catholic church, so we attended Catholic services. I lived in Salt Lake City, Utah. I've been to plenty of Mormon events, the LDS church. I know all about that. I've been part of other types of church.  [00:21:53] Rich: I grew up Mormon actually. So I was exposed to all these different religions. And what I saw was everybody said they're right. [00:22:01] Rich: And I'm not taking issue with that. I'm not trying to say one's better than the other, but just as an observation, if everybody thinks they're right, then my beliefs can be just as right. And that empowered me to say, "what do I want to believe about the world?" How do I want to choose beliefs that will help me be the best I can be? [00:22:18] Rich: And simultaneously at age 12, my mom was going through a huge awakening in herself. She was reading books by Dr. Wayne Dyer and all sorts of self improvement books, because she wanted to get better. And she was sharing those lessons with my brother and I. So I was learning through osmosis. I was learning through observing my mom go through these changes, but I was also observing the world around me, and I realized I can make changes to myself and become better, which means I could have lower stress. So let's go all the way back to the story of how do I start a company with no money? How do I believe I don't have to be stressed out about the money? And it comes down to your core beliefs of what you actually believe about your ability to go figure it out or your ability to let it stress you out or what even stress means in your life. [00:23:02] Rich: I'm sure you've talked about this with your group here. There's no value in worry. Like worrying about a problem, what does that actually get you? It gets you anxiety and stress. It doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't add value into your life. So therefore I looked at it and said, how do you not worry? [00:23:19] Rich: How do you not stress out about things? So what I'm excited to share with your audience when I get up on stage is how to use my methodology to become more resilient, to accept change for what it is, to learn how to control the change so that you can be the person you want to become. And therefore you can go through the hardships, the challenges, the biggest potential failures or actual failures that you're going through in your business and in your life and win on the other side, because you become a better person through the whole thing. [00:23:47] Jason: Love it. Yeah. I mean, running a business can be tough. It can be very hard. Entrepreneurs go through a lot of challenges. I often joke DoorGrow was built on thousands of failures, you know? But we have that hope and we keep moving forward. And so being resilient is essential. [00:24:06] Jason: Being adaptable is essential. Otherwise it's just takes a toll. It takes a toll on our body. It takes a toll on our health. We don't make progress. We don't have as effective of decision making and there's like, if we're not in a state of worry, not in a state of stress, we make infinitely better decisions. [00:24:24] Jason: Like decisions made from fear, decisions made from stress generally are almost never good decisions. So, and if you think about all the decisions we make on a daily basis in our own business, If you just have a healthy mindset, you will be at a very different place, even in a short period of time. And I've had periods of stagnancy. [00:24:43] Jason: I've had periods of hardship and I've had periods of like dramatic growth.  [00:24:47] Rich: Yeah. And transition. I love the graphic and I'm sure everybody's seen it where two guys are digging and one guy is giving up and the other guy keeps going and the diamonds are right there. The gold is right there. Okay. Right. The guy who gives up is one foot away from the gold and the guy who keeps digging hits it because he just went that one extra foot. [00:25:07] Rich: And to me, that is that point of exasperation where you're saying, "Oh my gosh, this is the worst day of my life. The worst month of my life. This is so challenging. It's, everything's wrong. And you embrace the change and suddenly things change faster." Now you may not strike the gold that you want. You may not win the biggest account you want, but I mean, look, you can read the biography on Elon Musk with his story of SpaceX and Tesla, and he was betting the farm on both of them. He was down to two weeks of payroll, I think when NASA came in with a one and a half billion dollar check to fund the rocket boosters they wanted. Like he is at the absolute lowest point and boom, the greatest thing happens. [00:25:42] Jason: You know, when we take these risks, they create great stories. And even if it doesn't work out, the risk, it still makes a great story. It does. Because we're going to figure it out. The one thing is if we're committed, if we're committed to getting the result, it's inevitable. [00:25:56] Jason: It will eventually come. It might take a little longer, but yeah, if we're committed and man, like, yeah, he took some big risks. He was committed.  [00:26:04] Rich: Yeah, but it comes back to you. I've met so many entrepreneurs who do stress out. They lose sleep. In fact, one of the most common things I hear from entrepreneurs is, "Hey, what makes you lose sleep at night?" Nothing. Honestly, my three year old makes me lose sleep, but losing business, man, it doesn't bother me in the same way that I think a lot of other people do. And that's because I know who I am. I know what my beliefs are and I've challenged myself to change the ones that don't work.  [00:26:31] Rich: I'll give you one other example here, Jason, to think about, and again, this is not a judgment towards anybody. [00:26:36] Rich: I was in an audience of entrepreneurs, man, I don't know, 12, 15 years ago. And the guy on stage said, "okay, everybody here, raise your hand. If you have ADHD," I was maybe one of two people who didn't raise their hands. I've never been diagnosed with ADHD and I refuse to accept the label of ADHD for whatever purpose the label means. [00:26:55] Rich: What if though, what if ADHD is your superpower? And what if the label of ADHD of treating it with drugs and you can't stay focused and still is a negative by all the other aliens on this planet? Because you said as entrepreneurs, we feel alien. What if it's everybody else's assessment of you versus your own? [00:27:12] Rich: What if your own assessment was your ADHD is actually your superpower?  [00:27:16] Rich: Sure. You've got the ability to hyper focus. You've got the ability to like do something unique or exceptional. Yeah.  [00:27:22] Rich: Or switch gears on 10 conversations in a day, because that's what happens during your day as an entrepreneur.  [00:27:28] Jason: Yeah. [00:27:28] Rich: Right. And adaptability. So I look at that again, going back to how I view your belief systems and my book on change, is that you can take something that a lot of people look at as, "Oh, that's harmful for our relationship or whatever. I say, no, I'm going to turn it into my superpower." [00:27:44] Rich: And take a different view of it because it's you. It's not me. It's not my judgment of you. It's your own judgment of you. How do you want to be? Yeah, I'm excited to share this with everybody when we get up there.  [00:27:55] Jason: Yeah, it'll be awesome to have you there. You know, the reason I'm having you come and other speakers that have nothing to do with property management, by the way, for the property managers, is I find that it's never really a business issue that's holding people back in business. [00:28:09] Jason: And I mean, I've talked to thousands of property managers, I've coached hundreds. And when I dig in it's never that they're focusing too little time on their business that's the problem. It's always related to mindset, self belief. You know, that's really what's holding them back. And so I think this, this'll, this'll be really awesome. [00:28:31] Jason: I'm really excited for you to benefit our clients that'll be at this event. And those of you that are not yet clients that are coming to DoorGrow Live, I think this'll be a game changer for them to just kind of shift their mindset a little bit and increase their resiliency. So, yeah, I'm excited for that. [00:28:46] Rich: Yeah. I am equally excited because you said one of the four pillars is contribution. And I didn't write this book for my business. It has nothing to do with software and efficiency. I wrote this book because my sister and her husband at the time were at the beginning of a divorce and they were both coming to me independently to ask me questions and I'm helping them. [00:29:04] Rich: And they both independently said, "Rich, you should write a book about this someday." And it was on Thanksgiving that year when they both tried to use me as a conduit to each other, where I said, "I'm fed up, I'm done." And honestly, Jason, I just spent the next whatever days until the 23rd of December writing the book. [00:29:20] Rich: I stopped watching TV and it just flooded out of me. I never thought I'd write a book. I don't even like reading books. I listen. So I wrote the book before Christmas and then I hand bound it and gave it to them as a gift and it went nowhere. It was lost on them.  [00:29:32] Jason: Yeah.  [00:29:33] Rich: And then I realized, man, I've got this thing. [00:29:35] Rich: I've got to get it out there to the world and help other people, because this is one of the ways I get to contribute in the world. Yeah. My business contributes too, and I love that, but at the core of who I am personally, I want to empower people to be their best version of themselves. Yeah. I can do that with the book. [00:29:50] Rich: I can do that with the podcast I have. I can do that with the software that we generate. There's a lot of ways to have that effect. And that is my lightning rod. So when you ask me to come speak, it's an easy yes, because this is an opportunity for me to help others become their best version of themselves. [00:30:06] Rich: Maybe by giving them a tool set that they can then use to implement for themselves and create the person they've always wanted to be, or they know is inside of them that's afraid to come out or just maybe just one behavioral change. I don't know. It's up to them.  [00:30:19] Jason: I love books. I think books are awesome. [00:30:21] Jason: I read lots and lots of books. I'm reading books all the time. Like I usually have like three or four books I'm reading at a time because maybe I am ADHD, but you know, I get bored of something and I then focus on something else or whatever. I love books. What I've noticed though, because I've gotten to be around a lot of the people that have written some of these books... I pay a lot of money to go to masterminds or events. Like I just got to see Tony Robbins at Funnel Hacking Live. It was really great. I learned some awesome stuff. Right. And I think there's some magic in being able to be around and be in the energy space of the person that is giving you this idea. [00:30:58] Jason: It's not the same. Like being in person and doing stuff, I've noticed this weird thing that people absorb information different. They perceive it different. It's not the same as being on video like this. I've taught lots of people through video and over again, when they would come show up to DoorGrow Live or come in person, things would just click in a different way. [00:31:16] Jason: And I started to call it, mentally I called it the 'real bubble.' I have to pierce this bubble that it's not real. I think our unconscious mind doesn't perceive this as real.  [00:31:26] Rich: Right.  [00:31:27] Jason: Right. But you and I met in person, so we know we're real people. So our unconscious mind is like, "Oh Rich and Jason. We're real people." So we know this, our brain knows this, but until I meet somebody, fist bump them, high five, give them a hug, whatever, like, and they see me in person, my clients don't get as big of results.  [00:31:45] Rich: Yeah.  [00:31:45] Jason: Their unconscious mind is somehow like "Oh, this is that digital universe or TV universe. That's not real. I don't know." So if they come and like experience this... even if you get his book, like get his book, but I'm excited for people to be in your energy field to experience you and for you to teach this and there's something you could say the same words that are exactly in your book, but people will absorb it differently. [00:32:08] Jason: I've seen this over and over again, and they will get so much more out of this. That's why I'm excited to have you come present this. So.  [00:32:14] Rich: Yeah, there's no replacing face to face. There's absolutely no replacement for the energy and the connection that's made when you're face to face. I 100 percent agree and I wish we could do more of it. So i'm glad for the event and the opportunity to do it in my hometown. [00:32:29] Rich: It's great.  [00:32:30] Jason: Yeah, it'd be an easy drive not too far. So yeah All right. So, cool. I'm really excited about this. So for those of you that are listening go to DoorGrowLive.Com get your tickets. This is different than other property management events. Property management events, usually people go to these conferences and they're really there to like hang out at the bar and escape their life and their problems. [00:32:52] Jason: DoorGrow Live's different and you can go to the bar. There's bars at the Kalahari resort. You can do that and you can hang out with people. But people come to our event because they want to be around other people in that space of other people that are really growth minded. And that's who I attract in the industry. [00:33:08] Jason: We have the most growth minded property management business owners. Like these are people that are focused on being a better person, a better husband, a better father, better wife, better parent, you know, whatever. Like, and they're focused on you know, taking care of their team, making a difference in the industry. [00:33:24] Jason: And I really believe good property managers can change the world. They can have a massive ripple effect. They affect all their clients, the investors' lives. They positively impact the tenants' lives. They can have a big ripple effect. They can affect a lot of people. And that's exciting is inspiring for me to be able to, you know, Help benefit them and bring that to the table. [00:33:44] Jason: So these are leaders. These are people that affect families. And so, you know, by you coming and presenting, I think there's definitely a ripple effect and a positive impact that can happen. So if you're a property manager listening and you don't care about any of that stuff, then just don't go to DoorGrow Live, because we don't want you there anyway. [00:34:00] Jason: All right. So Rich, any quick tip that you could give to people before we wrap up our conversation and then how can people, you know, get ahold of you and, or you know, or whatever you want to plug. Floor's yours  [00:34:12] Rich: I'm going to leave everybody with one of my core beliefs. That is an empowering one. [00:34:17] Rich: And it's this: confidence is knowledge of yourself. We all want more confidence, right?  [00:34:22] Rich: And the reason I call it knowledge of yourself is because you should be able to take confidence and apply it to any given situation. It's not a hundred percent confident all the time. It's confident about something you're doing. [00:34:33] Rich: My typing speed's near a hundred words per minute. I have absolute confidence in my ability to type, for example, right?  [00:34:39] Jason: Yeah.  [00:34:40] Rich: My, my other skills may not be the same. So how do you build confidence? It's you build knowledge of yourself and it's a lot of what we've been talking about is your own personal growth and who you are and all that's going to lead to more confidence. [00:34:53] Rich: So that's just one of the things I'll share. Best way to find me probably LinkedIn. I'm the Quik! Forms CEO and that's Q U I K. There is no C in the word 'quick' for my company. You could try to email me as well. rwalker@quikforms.Com. You could spell it with a C because we own both domains, but yeah, if you reach out to me on LinkedIn, there's one thing you should do, send me a personalized note, tell me why you want to meet me because I'm very happy to meet you and share my network with you. But if you're trying to sell me and spam me, I don't answer those. So just give me a personal note and I'm very happy to talk to you.  [00:35:23] Jason: Just say, "Hey, I heard about you on the DoorGrow podcast and you know, the property management growth podcast like..."  [00:35:30] Rich: Yeah. And I'll look, I'll plug one little thing. I don't know how relevant it is to your audience, but my podcast is called The Customer Wins. And I talked to business leaders about how they help their customers win, how they overcome challenges of growth, how they create a really excellent customer experience. [00:35:45] Rich: And about 20 percent of my guests come in with totally different perspectives. I had a custom suit broker on, I had a golf pro, I had a magician and the majority of people in the financial services space. But I'm telling you, there's a lot you can learn about building a better customer experience from listening to people talk about it and hear about it. [00:36:03] Rich: So I've studied that a lot for several years. Like that's, it's a big deal to me. I mean, you have to, if you're running a coaching business, coaching businesses are generally high churn. Education businesses are really like a low engagement. Yeah. So I've had to figure a lot of things out to make this go really well,  [00:36:19] Rich: so, yeah. [00:36:20] Rich: Yeah. Well, I mean, I really don't care about how many subscribers or listens I get on my podcast. That's not what I care about. I want people to get value. Yeah. So if you get value from it, awesome. Let me know. Awesome. Very cool.  [00:36:32] Jason: 110 words per minute. It's pretty fast. Do you type on QWERTY or did you change your keyboard? [00:36:37] Rich: No, I type on a normal keyboard. At one point I was at 115. Right now I'm around 100. I bought a device called a Kara quarter, which is a totally different configuration where you can type about 300 words per minute, but I've yet to learn it new skill. I'm just not picking on yet.  [00:36:51] Jason: So. I hear a lot of world typing speed records are set in Dvorak and I switched to Dvorak simply because my wrist started hurting when I was going through college. [00:37:02] Jason: So I actually pop all the keys off all my keyboards and rearrange them into Dvorak. So I know I'm a nerd. So, and you just change the setting. On Mac books and Mac keyboards, it's like doing brain surgery. It'd be really careful, but for the geeks out there. Maybe you'd appreciate this, but it has the most commonly used vowels on the home row of the left hand and the most commonly used consonants on the home row of the right hand. [00:37:27] Jason: Oh, that makes sense. And so world speed record. So, and it took me like a month to just get used to it. Like you would pick it up really fast. So how fast are you? I'm not that fast. I just did it because my wrists were hurting. I actually don't type that much. Honestly, you know, I'm like talking and drawing a lot more than I'm typing, but I'm probably faster than I would be with QWERTY. [00:37:50] Jason: So I don't know. I've never really like done a speed test or, you know, typing test to see, but I don't think I'd beat you. That's my guess, your QWERTY handicap. So, cause QWERTY was designed to slow down typewriters.  [00:38:04] Rich: Like the hammer strike colliding. Yeah. Of the old type that, yeah. So I'll leave you with a fun fact. [00:38:11] Rich: The average typing speed in my company is about 85 words per minute.  [00:38:14] Jason: Nice. Okay. It's pretty good.  [00:38:15] Rich: Tell you there's people faster than me here. Yes.  [00:38:18] Jason: Yeah. Cool. Well, Hey Rich, great to have you on here. Appreciate you hanging out with me and I'm excited to have you at DoorGrow Live.  [00:38:25] Jason: My pleasure. And thank you for having me today, Jason. [00:38:27] Jason: All right. So for those that are, you know, struggling with growth, you're wanting to figure out how to grow your property management business, or you're just getting stuck in the operational challenges. You're tired of telling your team all the time, thinking, "why won't they just think for themselves" and frustrated and you're dealing with operational systems challenges to get to that next level, reach out to us at DoorGrow. [00:38:49] Jason: We might be able to change your life. So, go to DoorGrow. com. And if you'd like to join our free community and Facebook group and, you know, learn about us get access to you know, some free stuff, go to doorgrowclub.Com to join our community. And of course, go check out DoorGrowLive.Com, get your tickets. [00:39:08] Jason: It's going to be in May and we would love to see there in person. And a little bit of that DoorGrow magic is going to change your life. We'll see you there. Bye everyone.

SCRIPT:Amateur Radio Newsline Report 2471 for Friday, March 7th, 2025 Amateur Radio Newsline Report Number 2471 with a release date of Friday, March 7th, 2025 to follow in 5-4-3-2-1.The following is a QST. A survey reveals some important trends in Brazilian amateur radio. Huntsville's new museum of communications and technology is open -- and the founder of the Hurricane Watch Net becomes a Silent Key. All this and more as Amateur Radio Newsline Report Number 2471 comes your way right now.** BILLBOARD CART**SURVEY GIVES DETAILED SNAPSHOT OF HAM RADIO IN BRAZILPAUL/ANCHOR: Our top story takes us to Brazil where a recent survey is providing a detailed look at trends among hams in South America's largest nation. Jeremy Boot G4NJH shares some of its findings.JEREMY: An important snapshot of the state of amateur radio in Brazil has provided the national ham radio society and the telecommunications regulator with insights into relevant trends. The sampling of 940 hams in 27 states and 350 cities was conducted in May of 2024 by Guillermo Crimerius, PY2BIL, a member of the board of the Sao Paulo chapter of LABRE, the Liga de Amadores Brasileiros de Rádio Emissão. Guillermo told Newsline that the findings are also being shared with the regulator ANATEL.He said that the findings held no surprises but many details were nonetheless significant. Brazil's ham radio community remains predominantly male, with women comprising only 2 percent of the hobby. Survey results also showed that hams are an aging population in Brazil: 72% are between 40 and 70 years old, with most of them between 40 and 60. While new licensees continue to join Brazil's ham community every year, there is low membership in clubs and associations, giving little opportunity for the networking and skills training usually provided by them. Guillermo writes: [quote] "This scenario has had an impact on new generations of hams,who face difficulties in learning the essential technical matters and especially the operational and cultural activities." [endquote]For a full copy of the report, which is downloadable, visit the link in the text version of this week's newscast at arnewsline.orgThis is Jeremy Boot G4NJH.(GUILLERMO CRIMERIUS, PY2BIL)**NOMINATE THE NEXT "YOUNG HAM OF THE YEAR"PAUL/ANCHOR: We remind our listeners that young hams who live in the continental United States have an opportunity to make news, if they aren't already doing so, by being a recipient of this year's Amateur Radio Newsline Bill Pasternak Memorial Young Ham of the Year Award. Consider nominating an amateur radio operator 18 years of age or younger -- someone who has talent, promise and a commitment to the spirit of ham radio. Find application forms on our website arnewsline.org under the "YHOTY" tab. Nominations are now open. We are accepting nominations through May 31st.**BRANDMEISTER DMR PHASING OUT SOME RADIO IDSPAUL/ANCHOR: Certain Radio IDs that have been in use on the Brandmeister DMR network are going away later this year. Sel Embee KB3TZD explains.SEL: The Brandmeister DMR network has announced that it is phasing out its support of certain Radio IDs that do not comply with the Mobile Country Code, or MCC, numbering system. This means that by June, radio operators with certain DMR IDs will need to request new numbers to be assigned to their radios. The first phase of these changes will begin on the 1st of June, when Brandmeister will stop supporting five-digit CAP+ IDs. Starting on the 1st of January, 2026, radios with seven-digit personal radio IDs that begin with the numeral 1 will also stop working on the network. In making this announcement, Brandmeister assured repeater operators that it will continue indefinite support of repeaters that have six-digit radio IDs.Brandmeister said in its announcement in late February that this an effort to address improperly numbered Radio IDs – something Brandmeister has been trying to contain for seven years. It said on its website: [quote] The Brandmeister DMR platform is a constantly evolving system, requiring regular optimizations and maintenance to ensure its efficiency, reliability, and alignment with global open standards.” [Endquote]New IDs can be obtained through Radio ID (Radio Eye Dee) dot net (Radioid.net).For further instructions visit the Brandmeister link that appears in the text version of this week's newscast at arnewsline.orgThis is Sel Embee KB3TZD.[DO NOT READ: news.brandmeister.network](NEWS.BRANDMEISTER.NETWORK, AMATEUR NEWS DAILY)**3 IRISH "KILMOLIN CLUSTER" BEACONS GO QRT TO RELOCATEPAUL/ANCHOR: A trio of beacons in Ireland have been taken out of service in preparation for being moved, as we hear from Jeremy Boot G4NJH.JEREMY: In Ireland, three beacons that have been operating from a site south of Dublin have gone QRT to allow for their relocation. The EI4RF, EI1KNH and EIØSIX beacons have been part of what is known as the Kilmolin cluster. They had been hosted by Paddy Geoghegan, EI5HS, who became a Silent Key last year.The beacons, which have a new owner, went off the air in mid-February and are expected to slowly come back. According to reports on groups.io and the SWLing Post blog, the EI4RF 4-metre beacon is expected to be the first to return, perhaps by May just as sporadic-E season begins. The EIØSIX beacon is expected to follow sometime afterward on 6-metres. It was unclear how and when service will be restored on the EI1KHN beacon, which operated on 40 and 60 MHz. It is also unclear whether this beacon will need to be assigned a new callsign.This is Jeremy Boot GF4NJH.(EI7GI BLOG, QRZ.COM, SWLING POST)**UNIVERSITY IS W. BENGAL'S 1ST TO HAVE HAM CLUB STATIONPAUL/ANCHOR: Students and faculty in India are celebrating the establishment of the first state-of-the-art shack on a West Bengal state university campus. Graham Kemp VK4BB tells us more.GRAHAM: Aliah University, a state university that created for the education of many of India's minority populations, is about to become the first university in West Bengal with its own state-of-the-art ham radio club station.The announcement was made in late February in connection with a seminar held on the Kolkata campus introducing students and faculty to various aspects of amateur radio. The one-day session, held on the 24th of February, covered emergency communications and radio technology and included hands-on experience for the estimated 250 attendees. It was led by members of the West Bengal Radio Club, the Indian Academy of Communication and Disaster Management and organized by the school's Department of Electronics and Communication Engineering. A number of other schools have hosted similar amateur radio workshops throughout the region, which is a coastal area subject to violent storms and other natural disasters that rely on alternate forms of communication. This is Graham Kemp VK4BB.(MILLENNIUM POST)**BROADCAST TRADE SHOW DROPS RECEPTION FOR HAMSPAUL/ANCHOR: Hams will no doubt be among those visiting the National Association of Broadcasters annual trade show again this year but something will be missing, as we learn from Ralph Squillace KK6ITB.RALPH: The annual trade show of the National Association of Broadcasters is welcoming industry professionals once again this year to Las Vegas in April. One traditional event will be missing from this year's show, however: There will be no separate reception for amateur radio operators.Hams, of course, are still welcome. Indeed, many broadcast professionals - especially those on the engineering side - enjoy an active and robust time on the air on the amateur bands. A posting on the Radio World website said that this year's ham reception was not on the schedule. The reception had been hosted for a long time by Bob Heil K9EID, who became a Silent Key last year.The article said that organizers are hoping to [quote] "reinvent the event for next year by exploring fresh partnerships and innovative ideas." [endquote]In the meantime, licensed hams who work in the industry can still look forward to the usual opportunities for networking and learning about new technology. The NAB Show takes place between April 5th and 9th at the Las Vegas Convention Center.This is Ralph Squillace KK6ITB.(RADIO WORLD)**BREAK HERE: Time for you to identify your station. We are the Amateur Radio Newsline, heard on bulletin stations around the world including the WB3GXW repeater in Silver Spring, Maryland and simultaneously on EchoLink Conference Server Node 6154 on Saturdays at 8 PM and Sundays at 7 PM Eastern time.**DX INDIA FOUNDATION PREPARES FOR DXPEDITIONNEIL/ANCHOR: In India, there's a new DX foundation that has lots of energy and ambition - and plans for a rarely activated island. We learn more from Jason Daniels VK2LAW.JASON: It's still early in the game for the newly organized not-for-profit DX India Foundation but the team has already announced ambitious plans to increase India's presence on the DX map. As part of its mission to activate rare IOTA islands, conduct DXpeditions and provide DX and POTA chasers with a chance to work different entities in India, the team has its sights set on Arnala Island, IOTA number AS-169, which is near Mumbai. According to an announcement from the team, the island has had no amateur radio activity since 2006. Hams from the DX India Foundation have applied to use the callsign AU2M and hope to be on the air from the 29th of May through to the 1st of June. Later plans include a 10-day adventure to the Lakshadweep archipelago off the coast of Kerala [CARE-ruh-luh] in southern India.The DX India Foundation has also established an online forum in groups.io to encourage a sense of international community for chasers and activators. In between trips, the foundation's activity will be focused on training and mentoring other radio operators.This is Jason Daniels VK2LAW.(DX INDIA FOUNDATION)**HUNTSVILLE'S ‘SIGNALS' MUSEUM OPENS IN ALABAMAPAUL/ANCHOR: Huntsville, Alabama, home of the Huntsville Hamfest, has a new way to celebrate technology and, of course, amateur radio. To welcome the museum and honor the spirit and advancements made in technology, Newsline is departing from the norm this week. This report is being read via artificial intelligence and a correspondent known as AI-Drew.AI-DREW: On March 1st, the SIGNALS Museum of Information Explosion opened its doors to what founders hope will be an immersive and hands-on environment for visitors. The museum, housed a short drive from where the Huntsville Hamfest is held each year, has an array of exhibits devoted to communications technology in all its forms throughout history. Amateur radio operators who are visiting will be particularly interested in the ham shack, a welcoming space for regional radio clubs and other radio operators to meet or work on building equipment. The museum also has an on-site radio tower.Whether you live in the area or plan to visit Huntsville this year, the museum will welcome you. Visit their website at signals hyphen museum dot org. (signals-museum.org)This is AI-Drew.(SIGNALS MUSEUM)**SILENT KEY: GERRY MURPHY, K8YUW, FOUNDER OF THE HURRICANE WATCH NETPAUL/ANCHOR: Atlantic hurricane season is still a few months away but hams and forecasters will be going forward into this year's season without the man who created the Hurricane Watch Net 60 years ago. He has become a Silent Key, as we hear from Randy Sly W4XJ.RANDY: It can be said that the seeds of the Hurricane Watch Net were planted in 1965 as Hurricane Betsy raged its way through the Bahamas, making landfall in the US that September. Gerald Murphy, K8YUW, who was stationed by the US Navy in Rhode Island at the time, was also handling messages and phone patches for the Intercontinental Amateur Radio Net. When hurricane-specific traffic started to overwhelm the regular net's messages on their 20m frequency, Gerry suggested that those messages be handled 5 kHz higher. Marcy Rice, KZ5MM, who was in the Panama Canal Zone QSY'd with him up to 14.325 MHz and that was the genesis of the Hurricane Watch Net.The net has become the backbone of a robust communications system during storm season. Trained hams share advisories, data and post-storm damage information in affected areas with national hurricane centers in the US and, when needed, Canada.Gerry, who became a Silent Key on the 25th of February at the Ohio Veterans Home in Sandusky, leaves behind this vibrant legacy. He served as net manager from September of 1965 until February of 1988, staying on afterward as assistant net manager. Health issues compelled him to retire from the net in March 1991.The Hurricane Watch Net has been planning an on-air special event in September to mark its 60th anniversary. Net manager Bobby Graves,KB5HAV, told Newsline [quote] "I was hoping and praying Jerry would make it to see his creation's 60th Anniversary this coming Labor Day....We will endeavor to make it even more special." [endquote]Gerry was 88.This is Randy Sly W4XJ.(BOBBY GRAVES, KB5HAV; EDDIE MISIEWICZ, KB3YRU)**WORLD OF DXIn the World of DX, Chris, WA7RAR, is on the air until the 16th of March from Barbados, IOTA Number NA-ØØ21. He is using the callsign 8P9CB, operating SSB and CW on 20-10 metres. Some of his locations are POTA sites. See QRZ.com for QSL details.Rockwell, WW1X, is using the callsign VP5/WW1X from Providenciales, IOTA Number NA-ØØ2 in the Turks and Caicos Islands from the 8th through to the 15th of March. This is a QRP operation using only SSB, although Rockwell has not ruled out occasional use of FT8. QSL via LoTW.Listen for Aldir, PY1SAD, who is using the callsign 8R1TM from Georgetown, Guyana, between the 11th of March and the 26th of April. Aldir is using CW, SSB and the digital modes on the HF bands. He is also operating via satellite. See QRZ.com for QSL details.Members of the Korean Amateur Radio League are on the air in March and April to celebrate the centenary of the International Amateur Radio Union. They are using the callsign HL1ØØIARU. See QRZ.com for QSL details.(425 DX BULLETIN)**KICKER: ECHOES OF A DIFFERENT WAY TO LEARN CWPAUL/ANCHOR: We end this week's report with an alternate way in which some hams in New Zealand got to learn and practice CW while having real QSOs. We'll let Jim Meachen ZL2BHF explain how it happened.JIM: If you've ever wondered whether Echolink is a viable mode for teaching or learning CW, just ask Ted ZL1BQA, who is proud to have logged a respectable number of CW contacts during the recent Jock White Memorial Field Day in New Zealand. Studying CW for almost a year with the Franklin Amateur Radio Club, Ted was able to restart his long-ago code skills in sessions led by the club president Peter Henderson ZL1PX. It was done over Echolink.Ted had enrolled last May along with three younger members who were first-time learners - Francois, ZL4FJ, Steve, ZL1TZP and Steve ZL1SPR. With only Ted able to copy Peter's signal over HF, the club followed a suggestion made by Gary ZL1GAC: try Echolink, a computer-based ham radio mode that incorporates VoIP technology. Loading CW software onto his computer, Peter was able to send the code intended for each session, confident that everyone had an equal chance of copying clearly.Weekly sessions soon expanded to twice a week as the students concentrated on letters, then numbers - and eventually basic punctuation.After a break in the action, the club is back on Echolink with CW sessions three nights a week. As for Ted, he's on a roll. Peter told Newsline in an email that he has resumed making CW contacts on a daily basis on HF using the Vibroplex that once collected dust instead of QSOs.This is Jim Meachen ZL2BHF.(QUA, Peter Henderson, ZL1PX)**Have you sent in your amateur radio haiku to Newsline's haiku challenge yet? It's as easy as writing a QSL card. Set your thoughts down using traditional haiku format - a three-line verse with five syllables in the first line, seven in the second and five in the third. Submit your work on our website at arnewsline.org - each week's winner gets a shout-out on our website, where everyone can find the winning haiku.NEWSCAST CLOSE: With thanks to Amateur News Daily; Bobby Graves, KB5HAV; Brandmeister; David Behar K7DB; DX India Foundation; Eddie Misiewicz, KB3YRU; EI7GI Blog; Guillermo Crimerius, PY2BIL; Millennium Post; Peter Henderson, ZL1PX; QRZ.com; QUA Newsletter; Radio World; shortwaveradio.de; SWLing Post; Wireless Institute of Australia; and you our listeners, that's all from the Amateur Radio Newsline. We remind our listeners that Amateur Radio Newsline is an all-volunteer non-profit organization that incurs expenses for its continued operation. If you wish to support us, please visit our website at arnewsline.org and know that we appreciate you all. We also remind our listeners that if you like our newscast, please leave us a 5-star rating wherever you subscribe to us. For now, with Caryn Eve Murray KD2GUT at the news desk in New York, and our news team worldwide, I'm Paul Braun WD9GCO in Valparaiso Indiana saying 73. As always we thank you for listening. Amateur Radio Newsline(tm) is Copyright 2025. All rights reserved.

In a world where your potential clients are constantly inundated with marketing content, how do you create trust and ensure your property management business sticks out? In today's episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management expert Jason Hull sits down with Dan Lievens, Founder of Share One, to talk about the benefits of collecting and utilizing client testimonial videos. You'll Learn [01:56] Getting Started as an Entrepreneur [08:41] The Impact of Social Poof and Positive Reviews [15:39] How to Ask Your Clients for Video Testimonials [24:53] Handling Objections and Retaining Clients Tweetables “Marketing is always evolving as well. Like it's not like you learn to do it once and then you're done forever.” “If I say it, no one believes it because it's my business, but if my clients say it, that's the ultimate social proof.” “The ability to be able to create human connection in any marketing or any business, I think is absolutely critical today.” “A lot of people think, "Well I have a skill in doing something. Maybe I could start a business doing that thing," but the skill is the technician-level work.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Dan: Even if you have a solid business model, like property management, for example, which is obviously needed you know, how do you communicate that? [00:00:06] Dan: How do you attract the right people? And so it's a constant exercise of being able to put yourself in a position of your customers.  [00:00:15] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the #DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management, growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show. All right. My guest today is Dan Lievens. Dan, welcome to the show.  [00:01:23] Dan: So glad to be here and looking forward to meeting your amazing community here. Thank you.  [00:01:29] Jason: Awesome. So Dan and I, we met at a local mastermind in the Austin area, which is really cool because I need more friends and I was like, how can I meet some? I'm in all these different masterminds, but I'm like you're traveling all over the US I'm like, I don't get to hang out with any of these people that often. So yeah, so I joined a local one and there's some really cool people in that group, which is really awesome. [00:01:53] Jason: So Dan's one of them and Dan, why don't you give us a little bit of background on yourself as an entrepreneur and then we'll get into what you do.  [00:02:02] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. So, this is actually my 12th business and in a variety of different industries from technology to health and wellness. [00:02:12] Dan: And my last big venture was opening up coworking facilities in the Philadelphia area. So I was one of the first people to open coworking facilities there and basically catering to startups and small businesses. And we very quickly became a business incubator and a business accelerator and supporting, you know, small startups and getting going right? [00:02:35] Dan: And what I noticed pretty quickly was there is a pretty high rate of failure, and the rate of failure was primarily due to not necessarily the idea of being bad but more the lack of the ability to communicate the value proposition. So that's when I kind of pivoted and said, "Hey, how can I continue growing my impact and helping these folks?" [00:02:56] Dan: That's when I started getting into marketing, really helping them be able to communicate a little bit better in terms of why they do what they do and really meeting the clients where they're at. And so we started getting into video production and pre pandemic, we had a huge video studio with audience, live audiences and all sorts of recording stuff. [00:03:18] Dan: And then the pandemic hit and that's when we kind of realized that, "Hey, at the end of the day, yes, fancy videos are good to have, but what's really going to help people move the needle is social proof. So how can we create a service for businesses to be able to leverage social proof, in other words, video or testimonials basically, to give consumers exactly what they're looking for?" [00:03:42] Dan: So if you're in a market to, you know, rent an apartment or to buy something somewhere, the first thing you do is you look at reviews and So that's how Share One began is really being able to help businesses capture legitimate social proof to grow their businesses.  [00:04:00] Jason: Yeah, awesome. Business can be tough. And like you're saying, there's a lot of good ideas out there, or there's a lot of people that think they have good ideas and you know, I've noticed not everybody tests those ideas. They just, they think the idea is so good, they're like, "everybody else has to love it." And they're surprised when nobody else has the same taste as them. You know? Other people don't love it. Or there's so many pieces that go into it kind of like the book The E Myth Revisited, a lot of people think, "Well I have a skill in doing something. Maybe I could start a business doing that thing," but the skill is the technician level work. Usually like "I can bake a cake, so maybe I should start a bakery business," you know? And then they're like, "Oh, accounting, marketing, sales, prospecting, like all the details, inventory, all the stuff besides baking a cake is where they get hung up on and they get frustrated. [00:04:59] Jason: And then there's just people that are just really bad marketers. They just don't know how to get the message across. Sometimes you run into the opposite problem though, right? Like I've had coaches and people I've worked with that were really great marketers, but their stuff wasn't super great. [00:05:14] Jason: I've had that situation happen as well. But even if they were great marketers and their stuff wasn't great, they still were making money... unfortunately. [00:05:25] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. You know, most entrepreneurs, you know, me included, we find a passion, we find a purpose and we come up with some kind of a amazing technology or whatever that may be. [00:05:35] Dan: And then, you know, our personality is just jump in and do it, you know. And it's so valuable now to really kind of take a step back and understand, you know, what the consumer wants and it goes beyond that. I think it really goes into, you know, even if you have a solid business model, like property management, for example, which is obviously needed you know, how do you communicate that? [00:05:58] Dan: How do you attract the right people? And so it's a constant exercise of being able to put yourself in a position of your customers. Right. And then even as time changes as AI comes in, which hopefully we can talk about a little bit today the landscape changes and consumer behavior patterns changes and what people are looking for changes as well. [00:06:18] Dan: So to, to have that finger on the pulse of, "Hey, what are my prospects actually thinking? What's going through their head?" Is a constant exercise that I think every single entrepreneur needs to do. And then from that perspective, it's like, okay, how do I reverse engineer what's in their mind? [00:06:34] Dan: How do I meet them where they are? Create the language and then slowly kind of invite them into the product and service that you're offering.  [00:06:41] Jason: Yeah. Marketing is always evolving as well. Like it's not like you learn to do it once and then you're done forever. Right? Like what I did to grow DoorGrow in the beginning doesn't work anymore. [00:06:53] Jason: Right? Some of the things that we were doing, like I had LinkedIn automation that was able to generate profile views. And then people would look at the profile view and go, "Oh!" And it's like "somebody viewed your profile." So they go look at mine, which I had set up like a sales page and then I was getting messages and then I would message them, "Hey..." I was getting friend requests or whatever you call it, connections on LinkedIn. [00:07:16] Jason: And then I would send them a message. "What prompted you to reach out?" And then they started clamping down on how many views you could generate a day. And like, then the automation, like, and eventually that whole mechanism pretty much died, you know, and then it was Facebook groups for a while. For a while, the Facebook algorithm was heavily aligned towards Facebook groups. [00:07:34] Jason: So that went crazy for us there was a time where it was like, you know It was just, you know, organic Google was doing its thing. We still get business through that, but you know, it's always evolving as well, which is a challenge. Now, one thing that has always worked well, always, is testimonials that has always worked well for us. [00:07:56] Jason: And so we have more testimonials. I realized this early on. If I say it, no one believes it because it's my business, but if my clients say it, that's the ultimate social proof. That's the ultimate evidence. And so gathering testimonials has always been a like a focus of us at DoorGrow and we have more video testimonials than any other coach or consultant in the property management space. [00:08:24] Jason: I mean, we've been doing this a long time, but we're also really good. But the challenge is how do you show that you're really good in a way that people believe it? Well, I just capture other people's results. So we're always having clients share their wins on our calls and then we're recording it and stuff like that. [00:08:41] Jason: So what, what prompted you to start to focus on testimonials as a business idea?  [00:08:48] Dan: So I do have, you know, pretty strong tech background. So being able to leverage the technology and human resources to be able to give businesses truly what they need. Just as an example we'll take care of the entire invitation interview process with the real producer and edit everything down for less than 200 a piece, right? [00:09:09] Dan: So our next competitors to do the same thing. are $3,000 to $5,000. So we've really, you know, grown this entire business to be able to scale and give businesses exactly what it is that they need. And as I mentioned before, over the years, it's like, yes, you can get super fancy with different things. But video testimonials today by far are the strongest piece of marketing content that you can use as you just mentioned. There's research that says there's an up to 62 percent increase in conversions. So the conversion could be a schedule, a call or schedule, a visit, or, you know, fill in the form. An increase of 62 percent if you start showing video testimonials on pages. [00:09:51] Dan: And today, recent research also shows that 82 percent of consumers have some level of suspicion towards written reviews. That includes Google, Yelp. Amazon today employs 12,000 full time employees just to track down fake reviews. So, you know, talking about market change, right? So that is definitely something that's changing. [00:10:10] Dan: And so being able to capture somebody in the comfort of their homes or their offices, truly speaking from their heart and sharing where they were before and how they met you and what your lives look like today and sharing that transformation is, you know, ultimately the most powerful thing you can do because it's believable, right? [00:10:29] Jason: Yeah, it's reality. It's not AI. It's not you know, even text testimonials, like on Amazon, there's lots of fake reviews. Like, you can have fake text. Somebody could type out anything. You got to chat GPT. "Type out a fake review that sounds credible," you know, or something like this. [00:10:46] Jason: Yeah.  [00:10:47] Dan: So be super careful with that. If anybody out there is, you know, starting out and you're looking for some kind of social proof on your website or anything, the FTC had a new bill in October really cracking down on people that are using fake reviews, $27,000 fine, and just some really crazy stuff. [00:11:05] Dan: That's, you know, consumer protection.  [00:11:07] Jason: You have to be able to back it up. So, yeah, you put some text on something with a testimonial, if you have the video original of that, you're good, right? [00:11:15] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, in my company, we take a lot of care in terms of certifying that every single video that we conduct is a true human transformation. [00:11:24] Dan: So it's a critical component, but at the end of the day, it's like, you know, any listeners today. What's the first thing that you do when you go on Amazon? You look at the number of reviews, look at the number of stars. Is that like four? Is it four and a half? Or is it five? Right? [00:11:36] Dan: And then we scroll down and say, does anybody have any videos? And do these things look legitimate? Right? It's, that's the first thing that we, that anybody does when purchasing something new. And that's part of human nature, right? Dr. Robert Cialdini has a really famous bestseller book called Influence. [00:11:52] Dan: I don't know if you've read that. It's all about the psychology of persuasion. And in there, he mentions that, you know, out of 95 percent of all consumers are what they call imitators and only 5 percent are initiator. So what that means is only 5 percent of people will be open and willing to go be that first person to try something, right? [00:12:15] Dan: Yeah. 95 percent of consumers are waiting for some kind of social proof. They're imitating somebody else's results.  [00:12:22] Jason: That's why the bandwagon approach is so effective. Most people on the planet want safety and security. It's more important to them than freedom or fulfillment in life. [00:12:35] Jason: They want safety and security first. Those people are not entrepreneurs They work for entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs are a small percentage of people and they value freedom and fulfillment over safety and security. We want that too, but our priority is in a different order.  [00:12:50] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, even attracting tenants or you know, bigger decisions to there's especially with the age of AI. [00:13:01] Dan: So I personally believe that we're going into next six months to a year. I mean, things are moving so quickly right now is that there is going to be a revolution or direct kind of already is of like humans against bots, right? So the ability to be able to create human connection in any marketing or any business, I think is absolutely critical today. [00:13:22] Jason: And  [00:13:22] Dan: most people aren't doing it. So you can definitely be ahead of your competition if you start leveraging and building that human connection into your marketing. And one of the easiest way of doing that is allowing your happy clients to tell a story.  [00:13:35] Jason: Yeah, I totally believe that. I think, you know, that all the interactions that AI can do are going to put a premium on humanity. Human connection and human conversation and human relationship is going to be a premium luxury product in some way. And so that's one way to set yourself apart always is to go deeper and to show care  [00:14:03] Dan: Yeah. [00:14:04] Jason: Most companies are going to leverage ai and people are going to leverage ai to go wider but it's not going to have the same depth AI doesn't have that soul. Might get there. [00:14:14] Jason: Yeah, I can see that. And that'll be important. The other challenge I've noticed though, with gathering testimonials is that if I do it, It feels a little awkward and it feels a little forced. Hey, what do you think about my business, you know? And so I think there's an advantage in what you're doing. And then like I know what it takes. Like we have somebody on my team that can edit video and can reach out and like do interviews. And like this is a difficult thing for the typical business owner to like go and do. It's like almost a whole nother thing, a whole nother business or something that we've had to incorporate over the years. And our best testimonials are the unprompted things that we randomly captured during our calls, which we do three, one hour calls weekly coaching clients, group calls. And we just. Have the whole thing recorded. So we capture stuff constantly, just unsolicited, unprompted, great things. [00:15:14] Jason: But when I have to go ask the client, "Hey, how did you like this event?" It just gets awkward and it's not as effective and they can't think of what to say. And they're like, oh yeah, it's really good. And I'm like, "no, tell me about all the problems you had and tell me about all the success we've helped you create." [00:15:31] Jason: But in that moment, they're like, "oh my gosh, I'm taking a test right now in front of a camera. I don't know what to say." And then I don't get something good. So.  [00:15:39] Dan: Yeah, there's quite an art to doing that. And the word awkward definitely sticks out like a sore thumb from the invitation, like asking your people, "Hey, would you record a video testimonial?" All the way to interviewing them as well. [00:15:53] Dan: So we take a slightly different approach. And the invitation, we have a 47 percent success rate in getting your clients to show up for an interview. And that's all about the way our white glove invitation process works. [00:16:06] Jason: This is like all of their clients that they give you their information, you reach out and you can get about half to give you a full testimonial. [00:16:16] Dan: Yeah. [00:16:17] Jason: It's an amazing stat that I'm just saying, by the way, everybody, imagine if you got half of all of your clients to give you testimonials, you would look like an amazing business.  [00:16:27] Dan: So whether you're doing it yourself or somebody else, let me just give you a couple of pointers. We never use the words "video testimonial." [00:16:34] Dan: So it's always something along the lines of, "Hey, I realized that, you know, you've been living here for a month and you seem really happy." Or, you know, "you've recently had a transformation...  [00:16:44] Jason: We've managed your property for a while.  [00:16:45] Dan: Yep. So think something along those lines and say, "Hey you know, there are a couple of really cool individuals that we're trying to bring into our community, and they're on the fence about moving here, if they could hear firsthand what it's like living here from somebody like you, I think you'd have, you know, great neighbors, right?" Something along those lines. "Would you be open to meeting with one of our producers just for a quick 15 minute chat over video, just to ask you a few questions about your stay here? And you know, your story can be truly inspiring to others. And maybe you'll meet some new neighbors," something along those lines, right? So really getting creative and the invitation don't ask for video testimonials, really about, hey, how can you as the client contribute to somebody else's wellbeing, right? That's another human nature thing that's important. And then being able to pass it off to say, "Hey, when you meet with my producer," so it becomes less of you know, it's almost like if I said, "Jason, I'm going to send a news crew to your house tomorrow to interview you."" [00:17:41] Dan: You'd be like, "Oh my God, great!" Like you feel honored. Right? So that's the kind of invitation that we're trying to create here too.  [00:17:46] Jason: Yeah.  [00:17:47] Dan: And then honoring their time, honoring their stories and being a super, super easy, you know, real human being kind of conducting the interview and our 15 minute interview, it gets edited down to, you know, sometimes 60 seconds, maybe two minutes tops just for the golden sound bites that you need to help your your free marketing conversions. [00:18:04] Dan: So yeah, don't go out and ask for video testimonials. That's not going to go over very well. Just get creative with the invitation.  [00:18:10] Jason: Yeah. Good tip. So explain how your service works and what it is and what it's called. And like, so that people can understand the advantage that this can give them.  [00:18:21] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. [00:18:22] Dan: So we're a membership model. We are currently $189 per month to be a client of Share One. And we take care, as I mentioned before, the invitation. So we'll invite your clients. We'll remind them, answer any questions, scheduling and all that. And then basically schedule a call with one of our producers. [00:18:39] Dan: All of our producers are going to be highly trained on the specifics of what you're looking for. So your branding you know, what locations you're trying to fill, whatever that may be our producers already know going into the interview, what the soundbites are you looking for? And we'll basically coach them into answering questions. [00:18:55] Dan: So we'll help them with their cameras a little bit, their lighting. And say, Hey, why don't you finish this sentence and, you know, make sure it doesn't ramble on and on. So we're literally producers looking for these soundbites. So we'll coach them into basically saying the things that we need them to say. [00:19:09] Dan: And that 15 minute interview gets edited down. We add captions and then we deliver that back to you. And from inside of our portal, you can easily say, "Hey, this is a cool testimonial. I want to run it as an Instagram Reel or Facebook ad or anything like that. And we'll recut and reedit everything for you. [00:19:27] Dan: So we're basically completely done for you video testimonial service. Yeah, so we're affordable. We're white glove and we're extremely effective at what we do.  [00:19:38] Jason: Yeah, I mean at 189 a month, it's an absolute no brainer. Just the cost of getting people to do this stuff, or trying to go out and get cheap places to do it, like to edit some video that you capture yourself, the quality's just not going to be there. [00:19:53] Jason: I think the magic is probably in the coaching and in the right questions and in the process and then the editing, putting it together is going to make it all work.  [00:20:02] Dan: And then once you have the video testimonial, we have a couple of really cool new piece of technology that we can automatically push testimonials to certain parts of your marketing assets. [00:20:13] Dan: So we have a, like a floating widget that can sit in any corner of your website that says video testimony. As soon as you click on it, it pops up and people can start watching mobile friendly. You know, when consumers are about to take action. So whether it's a book a tour or schedule a call, there's this anxiety inside of them when they click that. So we have this really cool inline widget that can sit underneath the buy button or schedule button that basically it's just a whole bunch of videos that they can watch some quick social proof in terms of that they're making the right decision. [00:20:44] Dan: Send them over the edge. [00:20:45] Dan: Absolutely. So as a member of Share One and we'll push all those videos automatically as we collect them onto the different parts of your marketing assets.  [00:20:54] Jason: Yeah, nice. So this can be it like there's a code snippets that you can embed on your website stuff like that. Very cool Yeah, we found that conversion rates increase... we'll do on our websites that we do for clients, I call it a testimonial sandwich. So basically we have the main call to action form that's lower on the page and we'll put like maybe two testimonials above it could be videos most of the time It's like a face image and text and then below that we'll have testimonies that have been gathered from their review websites, but videos would maximize if you just had two or three videos that somebody watched before signing up with you, there's a scripture in the Bible that says "in the mouth of two or three words shall every word be established." [00:21:41] Jason: There's this thing that happens in people, if they watch two or three videos of testimonies, or even just see that you have two or three, and there's some sort of headline below them that, like, sums up what it's about, they'll just believe it. They think that this is how everything happens at your business. [00:21:56] Jason: And so the power of just having even two or three videos, now if you have a lot, and you're able to continually gather these from clients, and then maybe leverage getting them to give you positive reviews on review sites, as well, then maybe after they leave the video, there's this other thing, I think Cialdini talks about this as well, that once somebody takes a certain action, they're more likely to believe in that like a positive action towards a business are more likely to want to continue to do that. [00:22:27] Dan: Validates their decision, right? [00:22:29] Jason: Right. And so once somebody gives you a positive review like if a tenant gives you a positive review or an owner gives you positive review, what happens is they tend to have a longer lifetime value. They stay longer and then when you have a problem because something inevitably comes up. The tenant gets frustrated, or the owner gets frustrated about something. [00:22:51] Jason: They're more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt, because previously they acknowledged they had a good experience with you, and they're more likely to say, "Oh, they'll figure it out. And so, it just makes business easier. What we coach our clients on is the best time to get a testimonial or a review is at peak happiness. And for most tenants and owners, that's usually around tenant placement. That's once the tenants in place, the tenant's happiest and the owner is now happy. "Hey, I've got a tenant and they're paying rent," and that's when everybody's happiest. And so during their and owner, new client onboarding processes. [00:23:29] Jason: They could build in this connection with you guys to give you their info and you reach out and ask about their experience. And our usual script for clients when we're coaching them to do this directly is that they reach out, point out the good that they've done for them so far, and then ask them the loaded question, like how do you feel we've done so far? [00:23:51] Jason: And then they're like, "Oh, well, you just told me you did all this you took care of that leaky toilet. You did this and property is ready for me And yeah, it's been great." " What's your experience been like with ABC property management so far?" "Oh, yeah It's been great." Because you just pointed out all the good. For the owner, you're like we got a tenant in place. We got the rent collected should be hitting your bank account in the next couple days. Like how do you feel ABC property management's done so far?" [00:24:15] Jason: "Oh, yeah. You guys are great." "Awesome We love hearing that would you be willing to share that feedback with us online? Or would you be willing to share that feedback with somebody else? That would really help us out." "Oh, yeah." So, it's called the Law of Reciprocity. They want to reciprocate, because you pointed out that you did something for them. [00:24:35] Jason: Yeah, there's kind of this debt or this leverage and they're like, "yeah, sure. I'd be happy to. Awesome. I'm going to have our producers-" you say right? "Our producer reach out and they'll do a little interview with you and I think you'll really enjoy it, and we're really good at making you look good." [00:24:51] Dan: Yeah, so great point. [00:24:53] Dan: I mean, testimonials build trust ultimately, right? And trust lasts a very long time. So even being able to send testimonials to existing tenants or existing owners as a reassurance, like, you know, if an owner has been with you for years, it's like, "Hey, If they're ever doubting about leaving us, let's send them like a case study or something, you know, once every six months or so, just to kind of reaffirm that you guys are really good. [00:25:15] Dan: So, so we actually have technology. We actually have technology that can build into the CRM process to know exactly when to reach out. So that can be automated. And we also upon completion of the video testimonial, we automate the whole Google or Yelp or any other types of site reviews. Automatically for the people that we interview and then one more thing I want to touch on Jason is objections, right? [00:25:37] Dan: So video testimonials are super powerful to use to address all objections before they even come up. So if you know right off the bat that nine times out of 10 people are going to say, well, you're, you know, such and such place is cheaper or other property managers or, you know, only charge 8 percent or whatever." [00:25:55] Dan: Then using the video testimonials and you can cue your producers into collecting that as like, "Hey, initially I thought that going with X was going to be a little bit more expensive, but little did I know they took care of X, Y, Z." Right. So being able to have those little seeds or saying, "Hey, you know, yes, this apartment building is probably not the cheapest around, but I'm so glad I chose this because of XYZ. So being able to take those objections and understanding how to reverse engineer these interviews to be able to get those soundbites that are going to help you with your closing.  [00:26:24] Jason: So this is something that your producers are trained on. That is in part of your onboarding process with new clients, then it's probably to identify what actions or challenges do they tend to deal with? [00:26:36] Jason: And then as you're gathering testimonials, it becomes a goal to offset those.  [00:26:41] Dan: Absolutely. So every new client that comes on board, we do a deep dive really understanding. who their audiences are going to be, who they're trying to attract, where these video testimonials are going to be displayed where these people are coming from, essentially trying to understand like what's in that prospect's mind frame, like what are they looking at when they're watching this? So that we can really kind of, you know, hit a home run for them. [00:27:03] Jason: Yeah, I love this. I think good testimonials are more important than most companies' marketing. They're more important than most companies' websites. They're more important than most everything that a company does to try and get new business. They don't understand the impact. And if you have negative reviews, which is like the opposite, it's like a clamp on anything that you could potentially do in your entire sales pipeline, any marketing you do, anything else, if you have negative reviews. People will check you out. People want to know, can they trust you? So they're looking for indicators. Even if they heard about you word of mouth or whatever, they might still go check and they're like, "well, they have a bunch of bad reviews. Maybe we should do some more research and find another company." And so the impact of that, I think is often underestimated. You can have the ugliest website. You can have the worst branding. You can have all the other leaks that exist in businesses, but if you have great testimonials and great reviews online, people will still work with you and those will be warm leads. [00:28:08] Jason: Like they'll trust you. There's stats that suggest that people trust online reviews or testimonials as much as word of mouth from a trusted friend or advisor if the reviews are credible, unlike some on Amazon. And then, so like the conversion rate or the close rate then is really high and you don't have to have as good of a website, you don't have to be as good at sales. You don't have to be as good at marketing. Good testimonials and good feedback really solves a myriad of marketing sins.  [00:28:37] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And then it's reputation management too. So if you do have some bad reviews on Google, you can easily upload videos onto your Google business profile and you can upload positive video reviews. [00:28:49] Dan: And when somebody reads something that's written that's negative and they go to your website and there's what we call wall of love, which is basically a whole bunch of videos saying how great, you know, you are, that's a game changer.  [00:29:00] Jason: That's an outlier. That negative review is now an outlier. You know, owners know that there's going to be upset and negative tenants. [00:29:06] Jason: And that's a given in property management. But they want to know that you know how to deal with those situations and that you're making changes or improvements or whatever. So having good responses is also can be important on those reviews. So having a whole wall of proof, yeah, that overcomes a lot of challenges. [00:29:24] Jason: So well cool, Dan. I appreciate you coming on the show. I wanted to announce Dan, you're coming to DoorGrow Live. You're going to be talking at our event in May about some of this stuff, but going even deeper into how people can have an impact in a way that I think would help grow and scale their business, which was what we're all about at DoorGrow. [00:29:45] Jason: And so everybody, make sure and go and check out the details at doorgrowlive.Com. And we were bringing in some really cool experts that are going to be talking about a variety of different things. And Dan is going to be one of those. So really excited to have you at that, Dan.  [00:30:02] Jason: Super excited. Can't wait for it.  [00:30:05] Jason: Yeah, that's going to be really cool. And so if you want to take things to the next level and grow your business, this is the place to be. And can you give them a teaser of what you might be sharing at this?  [00:30:15] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. So, being able to present actual case studies in terms of property management and give solid advice and examples on how you can immediately start using video testimonials and leveraging social proof to be able to increase your conversions and also teaching you how to collect them. [00:30:33] Dan: And everything to do with social proof. So I'm super excited about that.  [00:30:37] Jason: This will be really cool. So make sure to get your tickets to DoorGrow Live. Go to doorgrowlive.Com. Dan, I appreciate you coming on the show. How can people learn more about Share One and get connected with what you're doing? [00:30:51] Dan: Absolutely. So our website is www.share.one O N E. And I think, Jason, we might put something nice together for your listeners and we'll add that to the show notes.  [00:31:01] Jason: Awesome. All right, appreciate you coming and hanging out with us here on the DoorGrow show and excited to do more stuff with you in the future. [00:31:08] Jason: All right. So, if you are a property management entrepreneur and you're wanting to grow your business, add doors, reach out to us at DoorGrow. We can help you with that. So until next time, everybody to our mutual growth. Bye, everyone. [00:31:19] Jason: you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:31:46] Jason: At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Things don't always go as planned in life and in business. It's important for property management entrepreneurs to be able to roll with the punches. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss a recent experience where they were forced to pivot and adapt over and over again. You'll Learn [01:58] The Original Plan [05:31] How a Winter Storm Distrupted a Business and Family Trip [08:52] Moral of the Story: Be Prepared [11:08] Your Plan is Not Always the Right Plan for You Tweetables “Moral of the story is be prepared.” “This is how businesses work. Your best plan is sometimes going to fail and you're going to have to come up with a new way of doing it and you're going to have to adapt.” “There may be a reason that things are not going the way that you wanted them to go right now.” “ The only time that you won't have your breakthrough is if you quit.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Sarah: There is a bigger plan out there for you, and there may be a reason that things are not going the way that you wanted them to go right now. [00:00:09] Sarah: There may be a reason that you're not experiencing the results that you thought that you would at this stage in the game.  [00:00:17] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the #DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. [00:00:35] Jason: DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:00:54] Jason: At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management growth experts, Jason Hull and Sarah Hull. Now let's get into the show. Alright. [00:01:16] Jason: So, today we are recording this episode at, what time is it now?  [00:01:22] Sarah: It is almost midnight.  [00:01:23] Jason: It is late. On Monday. And this will go live or be streamed later. And so if you're watching this, thanks for watching. And we're not actually like real time live at this moment, but it's because we had to change things up and make different plans.  [00:01:42] Sarah: Live in the moment, we're probably still in the car.  [00:01:45] Jason: Yeah, so we will be driving tomorrow during our podcast episode. So we wanted to record this episode real quick so we can get one out. And in today's topic, we're just going to share a little bit of our adventure. And, you know, the moral of the story will be things don't always go according to plan. [00:02:03] Jason: So.  [00:02:04] Sarah: Sure don't.  [00:02:05] Jason: Alright, so, where do we start?  [00:02:08] Sarah: Alright, well, let's do quick synopsis. Where are we right now? Ohio, I think? I'm pretty sure we're in Ohio.  [00:02:15] Jason: I think so.  [00:02:16] Sarah: I think it's Ohio is the right answer. So, we've been to, in the last few days, we left on Friday, we've been to Texas, we've been to two days in Tennessee, we accidentally went to Kentucky, now we're in Ohio, tomorrow we're going to Pennsylvania. [00:02:30] Sarah: So, I think that's five states. Five states in five days. It's a great time. So, we're driving from Texas to Pennsylvania. It's supposed to be a straight shot, up like this. And it's this crazy record breaking winter storm, and we're driving through some of that. We're missing the big part of it. [00:02:51] Sarah: So we had to adjust our route. So our plan, this was our plan, was to leave on Friday. We're going from Texas to Memphis, Tennessee. Then the next morning, we were going to go to Graceland. We did do that, and then we spent some time in Nashville that evening. And then from Nashville, we were going to go to Morganstown, West Virginia, and then from there, drive into Dallas, Pennsylvania. [00:03:18] Sarah: So, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, we were supposed to get to Pennsylvania on Monday, which is tonight, we are not in Pennsylvania. We are, I'm pretty sure, somewhere in Ohio, past Akron. And where, what's the name of this?  [00:03:32] Jason: Youngstown.  [00:03:33] Sarah: Youngstown, near Youngstown. That's where we are, right now. And so that was our plan. And then because of this crazy storm, we were leaving Nashville. We left Nashville. Roads were fine. Then all of a sudden, a little bit of rain. That was okay. Then, snow. And that was awful. And we were trying to get from Nashville, Tennessee up to Morgantown, West Virginia. Did not happen. Not even close. So we were going to stop in Lexington, Kentucky for lunch around like 3 o'clock or 3:30. That was not the plan. We ended up staying in Kentucky because it took us so long to get to Kentucky because of the crazy storm that we then had to stay overnight in Lexington and then reroute. So we were going this way and now we're going that way.  [00:04:31] Jason: So do you want to share why we're doing a road trip? [00:04:34] Jason: Which is crazy to do.  [00:04:36] Sarah: It's crazy to do. I know, right? I could have flown there in a day. So we're driving my car that I've owned for a couple years now. I'm driving to Pennsylvania, and I'm giving the car to my mom as a gift. She has absolutely no idea.  [00:04:52] Jason: It's a surprise.  [00:04:53] Sarah: That this is happening. [00:04:54] Sarah: I don't think she watches the podcast.  [00:04:56] Jason: No. Probably not.  [00:04:56] Sarah: Hopefully it's safe. But I'm gifting the car to my mom. I want her to have a nice car, and a reliable car, and not have to worry about things. So, I'm gifting her the car. She has absolutely no idea. Coincidentally, it's also in a couple of days, my brother Jason's birthday. [00:05:14] Sarah: So, shout out to Jason. Happy early birthday. We love you. And we're going to do this little trip. We're going to see my family for a little bit. We're going to go out to dinner for my brother Jason's birthday. Give my mom a car, and then fly back home and we are running an event. So that's why we're doing all of this in the first place. [00:05:31] Sarah: The whole crazy part of the story here is when we left Nashville, we were trying to get to Morganstown. It was insane on the road. Just wildly insane. Like snow, ice, there was a mix, there was sleet. We were going like 40 miles an hour. I was just happy to be moving. We saw multiple cars that had run off the road. [00:05:58] Sarah: We saw a couple of tractor trailers that we're in accidents. We saw a few accidents. We were almost in a few accidents ourselves. And this trip is not at all going as planned. We had to move our flight, and then move our flight again, and then move our flight a third time. So then we, last night we almost gave up on this whole thing. [00:06:18] Sarah: I was going to quit and just leave my car in Cincinnati, fly home. back to Texas and then come back and finish the second leg of this trip a second time. Jason woke up this morning and he said, "I think we can do it, babe. I think we can do it." So here we are, but this is not...  [00:06:35] Jason: We were not prepared for this storm. [00:06:37] Jason: This car had pretty bald tires, which was... we were not ready.  [00:06:43] Sarah: No.  [00:06:43] Jason: Yeah. So after sliding off the road a little bit, twice, yeah, on a freeway.  [00:06:50] Sarah: On a freeway.  [00:06:51] Jason: On a highway. Yeah.  [00:06:52] Sarah: And car is supposed to be heading in this direction, and then it turned in.  [00:06:57] Jason: And we were just off to the side, so we were able to get back on the road safely both times. [00:07:02] Jason: Thank goodness. Yeah. And not get hit by a tractor trailer.  [00:07:05] Sarah: Yeah, we didn't get hit by anything. The car didn't get damaged. We are safe. And to that I can only thank God. The whole time I was praying, our fathers, I was saying Hail Mary's, our fathers, the whole time. I was just praying to God and God took care of us made sure that we were safe made sure the car is safe, made sure that we got where we were going, made sure we didn't get stranded in the car because we saw a couple people stranded.  [00:07:30] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:31] Sarah: It was scary. [00:07:31] Sarah: It was really scary.  [00:07:32] Jason: We eventually pulled off and went and found a tire store  [00:07:36] Sarah: Yeah, we were going to continue out there for a while.  [00:07:38] Jason: Got new tires.  [00:07:39] Sarah: And something told me it might have been God telling me like "go, you need tires. Go get tires." So I said to Jason, I said, "Can you find...?"  [00:07:47] Sarah: Can you find? No.  [00:07:49] Jason: I wanted to get some better tires on that car, for sure. [00:07:51] Sarah: So, I said, "is there a tire place that's like, nearby, that's open right now, that we can go to right now?" So we did. Took a little pit stop detour, but it was very well worth it. I just don't think we would have made the rest of the trip in one piece.  [00:08:06] Jason: The first tire store we went to was closed.  [00:08:08] Sarah: Yeah. Like it wasn't even plowed to get to it. They were closed. The third one was a tread. So we got new tires. That's good. The guy at the tire store, what did he tell you? The tread level was like a four. It's real, it's really bad.  [00:08:21] Jason: Yeah.  [00:08:21] Sarah: It was real bad. Yeah. So, that was fun.  [00:08:23] Jason: So We got fresh tires. Then the car drove really well. [00:08:27] Jason: Plus we had pretty much made it through the worst of the weather, which we had planned. Because there were two ways we could go. The northern route had less weather, so.  [00:08:39] Sarah: Yep. That's why we're in Ohio.  [00:08:41] Jason: So.  [00:08:41] Sarah: And not through West Virginia.  [00:08:43] Jason: Yeah, we'd probably be in a very terrible spot if we had gone the wrong way. [00:08:47] Jason: So.  [00:08:47] Sarah: Yeah. We'd be off on the side of the road frozen like popsicles. Oh gosh. You guys would never hear from us again.  [00:08:52] Jason: So moral of the story is be prepared. Make sure you're prepared. Have a plan. And so we've done lots of plans and changing of plans and so this is part of life. And this is how businesses work. Your best plan is sometimes going to fail and you're going to have to come up with a new way of doing it and you're going to have to adapt. And so one thing entrepreneurs, we are good at is adaptability. We figure it out cause we have to, and we adapt. And so we've adapted a lot today. [00:09:23] Jason: And yesterday. The last couple days. Yeah, the last couple days.  [00:09:25] Sarah: We had a plan, we changed a plan, we changed that plan, we changed a plan again. We just keep changing it.  [00:09:30] Jason: And that causes us. We're just rolling with the punches. That causes us to have to adapt in business. So here we are recording a podcast. [00:09:36] Jason: Here we are.  [00:09:36] Sarah: At midnight.  [00:09:37] Jason: In a hotel room.  [00:09:37] Sarah: Which Jason did not want to do.  [00:09:39] Jason: No. No. I was like, we don't have to do anything that we don't want to do. We don't have to do this.  [00:09:44] Sarah: No. And I said, we are not recording a podcast live from the car because we might die. No.  [00:09:49] Jason: We're not going to do that.  [00:09:49] Sarah: We might die live on camera. [00:09:51] Sarah: Yeah, that would be...  [00:09:52] Jason: All right. So hopefully some of you got some value from this. If you do not have a good plan for your business, then that's something that we can help you with here at DoorGrow, help you come up with a plan, and help you adapt to some of the things that are getting thrown at your way. [00:10:09] Jason: This is why we mapped out the DoorGrow code, our roadmap, for some of the most common challenges and problems. So if you would like a copy of the DoorGrow code, just reach out to us. We'd be happy to give you one and tell you a little bit about how we might be able to help you and hear about your challenges. [00:10:24] Jason: So reach out to us. You can check us out at doorgrow.Com or go to our website or join our free Facebook group by going to doorgrowclub.Com. Make sure to answer the questions. We reject 60 to 70 percent of the applicants that try to join that group. So it's only for property management business owners. [00:10:44] Jason: So if you own a property management business or seriously planning on starting one, then you can request access to that group. Make sure to answer the questions. We would love to have you inside. And that's it.  [00:10:55] Sarah: No, that's not it. No.  [00:10:56] Jason: Oh, there's more.  [00:10:57] Sarah: That wasn't it. I said, what are we going to talk about this episode? [00:11:00] Sarah: I told you what we're going to talk about, then we just... So.  [00:11:03] Sarah: It's not the end of the episode. Surprise! A little bit more. But wait, there's more! [00:11:07] Jason: But wait, there's more.  [00:11:08] Sarah: So for those of you that do have a plan, and you're like, "yeah, no, I definitely have a plan. This is not applicable to me," we had a plan going into this as well. [00:11:17] Sarah: So, when you have a plan and life does not work out the way that you planned, and things don't work out the way that you thought that they would, and you're going through things and you're trying to figure out, you know, "what am I doing wrong? And why isn't this working? And like, why is this so hard? I don't understand why it's not happening the way that I wanted it to happen," and why it's just maybe not happening at all... [00:11:40] Sarah: or maybe it's happening, but it's just so slow, and it's so hard, then you just need to know that sometimes there's a bigger plan in place for you somewhere. And if you're religious, you might believe that God, or the universe, or fate, or whatever you might want to call it. There is a bigger plan out there for you, and there may be a reason that things are not going the way that you wanted them to go right now. [00:12:07] Sarah: There may be a reason that you're not experiencing the results that you thought that you would at this stage in the game. Just like when we thought we would go to West Virginia. Had we actually gotten to West Virginia, we'd be stranded there for sure, because they are getting hammered with snow right now. [00:12:22] Sarah: So the whole, like, West Virginia, D. C. area Hammered with snow, and that was our plan. So I'm grateful, although it's a little crazy, I'm grateful that we didn't end up going that way. I'm grateful that there was a bigger plan in place for us. So just trust that you do have support when you reach out to people like your mentors, and if you're in the DoorGrow Mastermind, there are so many resources for you, including property managers who are in the exact same spot that you are in. [00:12:56] Sarah: They've been there. They've done that. They've experienced everything. So leverage the resources that you have available to you. Know that there's support and know that everything is unfolding exactly the way it's supposed to for you in this exact moment. And you will have your breakthrough. The only time that you won't have your breakthrough is if you quit. [00:13:14] Sarah: See, and now we're done.  [00:13:15] Jason: Good words. Good stuff, Sarah. All right.  [00:13:18] Sarah: All right. We're going to go to bed now.  [00:13:20] Jason: Yeah. Get some sleep.  [00:13:22] Sarah: Yep.  [00:13:22] Jason: So until next time, to our mutual growth. Hope you all crush it. Bye, everyone. [00:13:27] Jason: you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:13:54] Jason: At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

It's already 2025! What goals do you have for the year for yourself? For your property management business? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss their goals for 2025 and how they will impact property management business owners. You'll Learn [01:36] DoorGrow's Yearly Planning and Goals [07:30] DoorGrow in-Person Events in 2025 [13:05] The Future of Property Management: DoorGrow Live 2025 [16:11] DoorGrow's Commitment to Rescuing Dogs Tweetables  ”Strategic time invested in the business is what actually grows businesses.” “Most of y'all are focused so heavily on the tactical, the day-to-day tasks that just come at you and the business isn't moving forward.”  ”Broke people often have a broke mindset.” “You can do it. You just need a really good plan.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: Most of y'all are focused so heavily on the tactical, the day to day tasks that just come at you and the business isn't moving forward.  [00:00:09] Welcome, DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. [00:00:27] DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:00:47] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts property management growth experts Jason Hull and Sarah Hull the owners of DoorGrow. [00:01:07] Now, let's get into the show. All right.  [00:01:10] So today, we're going to be... [00:01:12] Sarah: It's new year's eve!  [00:01:13] Jason: It's new year's eve as we're recording this episode. So those of you watching us live, happy new year's. And those of you that are not, then I hope you had a happy new year, and you didn't like drink too much and you are like ready to go for the new year. [00:01:28] So we're going to be talking about the new year. What are we going to chat about today?  [00:01:33] Sarah: I thought we were going to talk about where we want to go.  [00:01:36] Jason: Yeah. So we're going to tell you a little bit about what's up with DoorGrow. We do our annual planning in the middle of the year. We offset it by two quarters. [00:01:45] We find that to be a lot more effective. So we actually coach our clients to do the same. Why? Because this time of year, everybody's a little bit too focused on other stuff, holidays, family, all good things, right? And not as focused, maybe, on the business. [00:02:00] Sarah: Can you imagine if today was the deadline for all of your big annual goals? [00:02:05] Like, man, we gotta do that one thing! Today's the last day. Hard push, guys! Everyone's like, "..." [00:02:10] Jason: Or just even this whole month of December or even like Thanksgiving time. Like just trying to push your end of the year goals and trying to achieve as a team, your team are like, "cool. I'm glad you are motivated, Mr. Business Owner, but..."  [00:02:24] Sarah: "I'm taking two weeks off for Christmas, and I'm off for Thanksgiving, I'm taking time off for Christmas, I'm taking time off for New Year's." [00:02:31] Jason: "That's cool, you want to hit that end of the year revenue goal, or sales goal, or whatever your goals are, but I need to figure out what to get my Aunt Susie for Christmas, and who's bringing what for Thanksgiving." [00:02:43] Sarah: "I'm cooking, and I'm cleaning." [00:02:44] Jason: And, "what party am I going to for New Year's? Who am I going to kiss at midnight?" Like, it's hard stuff. That being said, some of the goals we have for 2025 I think one of the things we've really put a lot of attention into over the last three, four years, maybe even longer is just making our program better and better. [00:03:05] We've just added a lot to the program, like focusing on decreasing churn, keeping our coaching clients longterm improving systems. We just rolled out some cool stuff, our client workbooks. What are some of the things we've done in the last year? We rolled out this new Accountability Sales Tracker. [00:03:19] We rolled out, you know... [00:03:20] Sarah: all kinds of client workbooks content...  [00:03:23] Jason: new courses,  [00:03:23] Sarah: operations revamp.  [00:03:25] Jason: DoorGrow, we get a lot done. Part of that is because of DoorGrow OS and our planning process. It allows us to really focus on Goals and outcomes, strategic growth of the business instead of just tactical day to day work. [00:03:38] And strategic time invested in the business is what actually grows businesses. Most of y'all, because I've talked to thousands of property managers, most of y'all are focused so heavily on the tactical, the day to day tasks that just come at you and the business isn't moving forward. So our goal for this year, because we've got a really good program, we're getting great results. [00:03:59] We're keeping clients for a decent time now. You know, we even got rid of over the last several years, we got rid of any sort of annual contract. A lot of vendors like DoorGrow have annual agreements or whatever. We got rid of those because we could keep clients longer than a year. And so we didn't need that. [00:04:16] Like it increases the risk of people wanting to like get on board with us. So we're like, let's lower the risk to come on board with us, prove ourselves and just keep them. So the next goal for us really at DoorGrow is to focus on lead generation. That game has changed so much over the last decade plus that we've been in business. [00:04:37] We've used LinkedIn to get business for a while through automation. We used our Facebook group and we've used organic stuff through SEO. Like we've used a lot of different strategies and we still have several things going at a time, but the game always changes. And so lead gen is something where we're shifting our focus. [00:04:57] As you focus on the business, we've got our six core functions, lead gen, nurture, conversion, delivery, lifetime value, pricing, retention, et cetera. And then financial finances. And so we're shifting our focus every year towards what's weakest. Where does our attention... yeah. [00:05:17] Sarah: Every quarter, we're like, "okay, Hey, we solved that problem. Now we have this whole other problem.  [00:05:22] Jason: So our weakest thing right now is probably lead generation. Like we've got a lot of tools for nurture. This podcast or newsletter. We've got lots of content on YouTube. Yeah. Nurture's strong.  [00:05:35] Sarah: Yeah. [00:05:36] Jason: Delivery and fulfillment is strong. Conversion, like we're pretty good at conversion.  [00:05:40] Sarah: Hassan follows up with people like crazy. He's just on top of it. He's done everything.  [00:05:45] Jason: So lead gen, we've been getting a lot of leads, you know, through Facebook ads and through our Facebook group where we funnel people to, but we're getting a lot of unqualified leads. [00:05:54] Like basically there's a lot of startup property managers that are broke and don't have money and we can help them with that stuff if they're willing to invest. But broke people often have a broke mindset. So if you're listening and you're not growing, you're probably not investing any money towards growth. [00:06:10] Like who are you paying to coach you or teach you or help you figure out how to grow? If you're not paying somebody, you're selling yourself short. And we eat our own dog food. How many masterminds am I in right now? I don't know, two, three? [00:06:22] Sarah: I don't know. You just added another one.  [00:06:24] Jason: Yeah, but they're for different areas of the business. [00:06:26] And and we leverage them and allow the team to leverage them and to make sure that we're always innovating or getting new ideas and moving things forward.  [00:06:35] Sarah: Think the answer is four.  [00:06:36] Jason: I think I'm in four different masterminds right now. Yeah. We're in plenty. So, yeah. So, and yeah we've got two online programs that we're in right now related to just leads. [00:06:49] Oh, I wasn't counting those.  [00:06:50] Ads. So we've got access to at least, you know, at least two focused on lead gen. So we're going to be putting our attention and focus this year on lead generation. Like how do we attract more property managers that are struggling, that want to grow, or that are struggling with being able to scale their operations and adding doors is causing a problem for them? [00:07:14] These are problems we solve and we're really good at solving it. So we're going to be shifting our lead gen from just like, "Hey, are you a property manager? Join our free Facebook group and then we'll give you free stuff." We're going to shift it more towards, "Hey, do you have these particular challenges we want to help?" [00:07:28] So that's going to be our focus this year.  [00:07:30] Sarah: I also want to focus on doing some cool events this year.  [00:07:33] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:33] Sarah: Those are so fun for me. I love that. Like even our jumpstart events.  [00:07:37] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:38] Sarah: It's a whole day, so it's a lot. Like I am tired afterwards, but I walk away feeling really fulfilled I walk away... [00:07:45] Explain what a jumpstart event is  [00:07:46] ...and I just feel like we just changed the trajectory of people's lives and businesses. [00:07:52] Jason: Yeah, they're powerful. Explain what a jumpstart is for those that are like, what's that? Yeah.  [00:07:56] Sarah: What's a jumpstart session? So the jumpstart session is available for our mastermind clients. They're held here in the North Austin, Texas area, and they're a one day deep dive into the business. So, there's no pre selected topics. [00:08:08] Sometimes I get, "well, what are we going to talk about?" I don't know, what do you need in your business? What are the problems? What are your challenges? What are you working on? What has not been working for you? You know, what questions might you have that you're like, "man, I just, I know I can do this better. I just don't know how." That's what we're going to talk about. So whatever it is. We've done a couple of them we've done pricing. Some of them have been focused on sales. Some of them have been focused more on the back end, like delivery and team operations.  [00:08:37] Jason: Yeah.  [00:08:38] Sarah: So they're different every single time and we never know what we're going to talk about really until we get there and we start diving in and we start asking questions. [00:08:48] So, they're usually smaller events. I like to keep them small because if they get too big, it's hard to go really deep into a business if there's like 20 businesses in the room. Now it's not a deep dive. Now it's just, we're going to talk about some stuff. So we keep them generally pretty small. [00:09:03] There are usually about like three, maybe four businesses there. And it's like a one day deep dive. We do break, we get some really good tacos. We go for lunch and then we dive right back into it. But every single time people walk away with an action plan, they walk away knowing what to do. We update our client workbooks. [00:09:22] So they get a lot of clarity and then we wanted to mimic that, but build on it and do this a little bit in a more robust way. So we're actually hosting an event. This is open to anyone who wants to join. It will be called Thrive 2025 because as we're talking with people, we're realizing we're at the end of the year. [00:09:44] The clock is about to reset. Some people, they have an idea of what they want to do, but they don't know how the hell they're actually going to get there. So, we're going to get into the nitty gritty and help them figure out, well, what is your plan? What are your goals? And then, how are you going to get there? [00:10:01] What are the things that you need to do? And by what time frame do you actually need to do them? So that you can hit this goal that you're trying to hit in all of 2025. So at this event, we're not just planning for like, "Hey, here's what you're going to do for maybe the next month or the next couple of weeks." [00:10:18] "Here's what your 2025 is going to look like, and here's the entire roadmap for your 2025." So that you can be on track and hit the goals that you're looking to hit so that you don't have another year where you're like, "man, it just didn't happen again. I just don't know what's going on. Maybe I'll just never do it." [00:10:38] You can do it. You just need a really good plan. You need a solid plan put together. So we're going to spend the day with a room of property managers. We're going to brainstorm. We're going to create some goals, figure out what is it that you really want for your business? Why do you want it? [00:10:53] And then, what are the action steps that you need to take so that you can get there? So this essentially is going to write the business plan for your business for 2025. And we're going to do that in a really cool place. It's going to be in Nashville.  [00:11:07] Jason: Yeah, we're going to take you through a bit of our planning process the way we do this at DoorGrow I really think this is the technology that has allowed us to surpass any other coaches in the space it's our planning and it's the planning process gets our team in alignment It gets them out of that transactional sort of leadership system. [00:11:28] It gets them focusing on objectives. It gets them functioning more like like intrapreneurs, instead of just waiting to be told what to do. And if you're frustrated and always having to tell your team what to do and always having to answer all their questions, you have a transactional leadership system because that's the least risky thing for them to do is to let you do all the thinking and decision making. [00:11:48] So when we start focusing on a team, figuring out what is the business need? What are the objectives to like brainstorm as a team? And you're the last to speak as a visionary or the people that are running the business and you get feedback, real feedback from your team who are on the front lines, who know what challenges they're running into, then we can start to innovate as a company. [00:12:09] Then they start to focus on those outcomes and they start to move things forward. And so we're going to take you through that process. And come up with a plan. So we're going to spend a day and just dig in. And this will be a game changer for you and your business. So we're going to have a small group. [00:12:24] How many are we allowing to come to this?  [00:12:26] Sarah: There's going to be eight spots total. And some of them are already spoken for.  [00:12:30] Jason: Okay. Eight businesses.  [00:12:32] Sarah: Eight spots.  [00:12:33] Jason: Eight people.  [00:12:34] Sarah: Eight. Yep. Eight human beings. So, a business might just have one person.  [00:12:39] Jason: Or bring a plus one. It can bring a plus one. Yeah. Okay.  [00:12:43] Sarah: Two, two max. [00:12:44] Because if someone goes, Oh, I have three people. So it might only be four businesses. Four people. Like now that's really.  [00:12:49] Jason: Okay.  [00:12:50] Sarah: It's hard then, because it takes up so many spots.  [00:12:52] Jason: So we're going to be doing events as another goal for the year.  [00:12:56] Sarah: Yep. Yeah, so we're going to kick it off with right in January Thrive 2025. [00:12:59] Jason: If you're listening this podcast later on like iTunes or something then you probably missed it, but we'll have other stuff.  [00:13:05] Sarah: But don't worry because we have our DoorGrow live event coming up. [00:13:08] Jason: Okay, that's another event So we've got DoorGrow live coming up. You want to talk about DoorGrow Live?  [00:13:13] Sarah: Yeah, let's talk about DoorGrow Live. So that is going to be a Friday and Saturday. It's May 16th and 17th. And you'll want to make sure that you come in on the 15th because that Thursday, the day before from 7pm to 9pm, we're doing a mixer. [00:13:27] So we're doing some networking. You'll meet the DoorGrow team. You'll meet a lot of other business owners and property managers, and we're going to have some live entertainment. So you're going to get to see some dancers. We're going to have a singer. It's going to be a good time. So make sure that you travel in the day before, attend the mixer. [00:13:46] And then this year we're talking about innovating the future of property management. So we want to talk about where is this whole industry going? Because things change really quickly, especially with all of the developments in AI. So things can change really quickly. So we're going to have some great speakers there. [00:14:07] You can go actually right now. You can go to doorgrowlive.Com and you can get all of the event details. You can book your rooms at the discounted room rate that we've negotiated with the venue for you. It's at Kalahari Resorts in Round Rock, Texas. And you can check out some of the speakers that are going to be there at the event. Every year we do one of these we always try to make it a little bigger a little better, and this year is no exception We've got some great stuff planned.  [00:14:39] Jason: You know, I think a lot of people are burnt out on conferences. A lot of you maybe have gone to a lot of events and conferences. But there's something special and different about DoorGrow Live. [00:14:49] I've been to a lot of different events as well. And there's just something special and different about DoorGrow Live. And one, we're creating a lot of momentum for property managers too. I think we're a lot more holistic in our approach. We're not just focused on property management. All of y'all know plenty about property management, but what I find is usually what's holding you back in business is not even related to business, it's everything else going on. And that's why we take a much more holistic approach. And so we're going to benefit you in a lot of different ways. Like people walk away from these events and become better people. That's our goal. And so, and better people have better businesses and better families and make more money and more contribution and make a bigger difference. [00:15:33] So, so get your tickets to DoorGrow Live. That's coming up as well. And any other events?  [00:15:39] Sarah: Well, there's this secret one that we haven't talked about yet. When we were in Mexico, we were talking about it.  [00:15:45] Jason: Okay, well I guess we're not talking about today 'cause it's a secret . So, so sorry, everybody. [00:15:51] All right. So something cool is coming. All right, so we've got events coming up and then so what other goals do we have for DoorGrow? Those are kind of the key ones for us internally. It's lead gen. Yeah. Yeah. It is going to be our focus, so.  [00:16:04] Sarah: I want to just find it to help more people and [00:16:07] Yeah. [00:16:07] I don't care what that looks like.  [00:16:08] Jason: It doesn't  [00:16:09] Sarah: even matter what it looks like, really, so. Oh, and then my, I have some personal goals, too, I'm going to help more dogs. We're going to save more dogs this year. Jason's going to kill me, probably. I might be divorced by the end of the year. Hopefully not.  [00:16:22] Jason: I will not kill her. [00:16:22] Sarah: What's the number of dogs that we can get before we talk about divorce?  [00:16:28] Jason: Is this, like...? [00:16:29] Sarah: On the pod, we're going to record it, yeah. So, like, what's the number? Because we're at three right now. We just rescued enough.  [00:16:35] Jason: There's no amount of dogs that would make me divorce you. There's plenty of other things you could do that would probably lead towards that, but it's not a dog thing. [00:16:44] Sarah: So we're going to have 99 dogs.  [00:16:46] Jason: We just adopted. Yesterday, we officially just adopted our third dog, who was a foster. We had for, what, a month? And then...  [00:16:55] Sarah: we had him for a month.  [00:16:56] Jason: And then he got adopted. We got him adopted.  [00:16:58] Sarah: We did our job.  [00:16:59] Jason: We took him to farmer's markets and places and we met somebody at one of the things we took him to and got him adopted. [00:17:06] Sarah: And it was a great situation for him. We were super sad because he's such a great dog. He's so perfect for him. And then when we dropped him off, I was just I was crying. I was a mess.  [00:17:15] Jason: Yeah, it was, that was hard.  [00:17:16] Sarah: I was so sad.  [00:17:17] Jason: He's just like the sweetest dog ever. Like, he's so, like, loving, he just loves everyone, like, well, loves us, not everyone. [00:17:24] And yeah, so we got him adopted and then they took him back to the animal shelter.  [00:17:30] Sarah: Yeah.  [00:17:31] Jason: Which is sad. I guess.  [00:17:33] Sarah: Husband wasn't really on board.  [00:17:34] Jason: Husband wasn't really on board with it. No. The wife had adopted him and.  [00:17:37] Sarah: She got him while he was in Florida like. He was out of town. Rebuilding houses from the storm. [00:17:43] Jason: Yeah.  [00:17:43] Sarah: And he was like, yeah, babe, go ahead. And he comes home and there's this dog.  [00:17:47] Jason: I'm coming to Texas. And he's like, I don't know if I like this dog. Yeah. Hans doesn't like new people, so he was probably like a little iffy about him, and it probably just didn't go well. I don't know.  [00:17:57] Sarah: Well, he let me know that it wasn't going to work out, so I said, okay, bring him back, and we'll foster him again, and in fostering him again, we both just, we knew we can't, we just can't, we can't give him up.  [00:18:12] Jason: So we're on number three. If we keep doing this fostering, we may end up with 20 dogs eventually. We'll need to buy land and a farm for dogs.  [00:18:21] Sarah: Y'all heard it. He said there is no amount of dogs.  [00:18:25] Jason: I'm not going to divorce you over dogs.  [00:18:26] Sarah: He said there's no amount of dogs. [00:18:27] So this is recorded. I have video evidence  [00:18:30] Jason: that doesn't mean I'm going to allow any number of dogs. There's only so many we can handle. Do you like taking trips? You like taking trips?  [00:18:37] Sarah: I do, but that's... [00:18:38] we're not boarding 20 dogs. [00:18:40] No, we just need a farm. Need a farm. [00:18:43] Need some volunteers. We'll start a nonprofit.  [00:18:47] Jason: Okay.  [00:18:47] Sarah: Get some people to help out. I'm going to save all dogs.  [00:18:50] Jason: This is Sarah's goal for 2025.  [00:18:54] Sarah: We'll have buses full of dogs. And he's not going to leave me, so that's great.  [00:18:58] Jason: God help me.  [00:19:00] Sarah: Seriously.  [00:19:00] Jason: Please, protect me from this woman and all of her dogs, so. Okay, so that's it. [00:19:07] That's our goals for DoorGrow. What are your goals? Figure them out. Let us know inside our Facebook group. You can go there by going to doorgrowclub.com . And let us know what your goals are for the year. And if you would like some help, we would love to help you with your goals. You know what your default future is. [00:19:25] You know what you achieved last year. You know what you achieved the year before that. And if you're anything like the majority of the property managers I've talked to over the last decade, your results probably aren't super great and you're probably not super excited about it. And you're probably getting a little bit burnt out on your business. [00:19:43] And you probably do not want to keep doing things the way that you're doing it for the next year or the next five years. And so if you would like to have a different year this year than you had last year. Like a great year, like things really going well, like adding a lot of doors, getting a team that actually makes your life easy and you feel like you can just take vacations and step away and the business works swimmingly well, then reach out to us. Reach out to us. This is stuff that we're helping clients do all the time, and you would be amazed how much we can get accomplished even in your initial jumpstart session as a new client, but certainly within the first 90 days, we are changing lives, and we would love to change yours. [00:20:26] We love getting to do this. We just we want to help more people and reach out to us. Have a conversation. We're expensive. Yeah. Not going to lie, like we're expensive, right? But we help you make so much money that you're not going to be worried about the expense. So that's the goal.  [00:20:43] Sarah: What's this, what's the, I don't know what it's called, but there's this framework where you have good, you have cheap, and you have fast and you can never have all three. [00:20:51] Jason: You can only pick two.  [00:20:52] Sarah: There's only two. There's no combination in this world of anything. No product, no service, no nothing that's good and cheap and fast.  [00:21:00] Jason: Yeah. [00:21:00] Sarah: So  [00:21:01] Jason: Yep.  [00:21:01] Sarah: So figure out which one you want to sacrifice, right?  [00:21:04] Jason: Reach out to us. You can check us out at DoorGrow. com and until next time to our mutual growth and happy new year. [00:21:10] Bye everyone. [00:21:10] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:21:37] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Many property management business owners out there struggle with having a bad brand, bad pricing, cheapo clients, a lack of confidence, and more. In today's episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull sit down in-person with property manager and DoorGrow client, Kelly Rafuse, to talk about her journey with property management. You'll Learn [04:53] How to Be Picky with the Clients You Bring on [10:59] Overcoming the “Hustler” Mindset [15:04] Choosing an Effective Brand [21:07] Cheapos, Normals, and Premium Buyers Tweetables  ”As you live and you grow in this business, you learn what makes money and what doesn't.” “ The more confident you are, the more some of these… difficult personality types will kind of abdicate and allow you to lead them.” “ It's better to be at the top than to be competing with the garbage at the bottom.” “ Need is scarcity, need is starving, and need is survival.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Kelly: You know, as you live and you grow in this business, you learn what makes money and what doesn't. And I learned how to manage property the hard way.  [00:00:07] Jason: But you learned it.  [00:00:08] Kelly: Yes.  [00:00:10] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives. And you're interested in growing in business and life. And you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. [00:00:37] You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management growth experts, Jason Hull, founder and CEO of DoorGrow, and Sarah Hull, the co owner and COO of DoorGrow. And now let's get into the show.  [00:01:13] So our guest today, we're hanging out with Kelly. Kelly, introduce yourself.  [00:01:17] Kelly: Hi there, my name is Kelly Rafuse with Crimson Cape Property Management in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania.  [00:01:22] Jason: And you have a really nice logo. Where'd you get that really nice logo?  [00:01:25] Kelly: It's this little mastermind I joined called DoorGrow helped me with that.  [00:01:29] Jason: And it's, I was saying, I think it's cool because it's like you are flying right there. [00:01:33] It's like, it like reminds me of you.  [00:01:37] Kelly: Well, yeah. I had this Marvel Comics stud fetish, so.  [00:01:41] Jason: Yes. Okay. You're the Marvel comic gal. All right. So really excited to be hanging out. We're actually in Pennsylvania because this is kind of the neck of the woods Sarah grew up in and managed properties nearby and you manage properties in a neighboring market and so. [00:01:59] The same market. The same market. She, yeah. Exact same market.  [00:02:02] Sarah: I left and she has the market.  [00:02:05] Kelly: While you were here, I was just managing my own portfolio.  [00:02:08] Jason: Oh, okay.  [00:02:09] Kelly: And people were coming to me to manage theirs, and that's how I got into this mess.  [00:02:15] Jason: Yeah. Well, give us a little more background on you, Kelly. [00:02:18] How'd you get into property management?  [00:02:20] Kelly: Oh, well, I started off as a real estate investor. You know, buying homes out here in Northeast PA. It's a very good place to invest in property. Cash flow is, I mean, I think cap rates were like 12 percent when I got in. So, I mean, it was huge, and honestly, I was trying to replace my income because I'd gotten as far as I could go in my former career, you know, hit a huge glass ceiling, and realized that, you know, real estate was probably my ticket to freedom. [00:02:45] Jason: What was your former career?  [00:02:47] Kelly: I was on the radio.  [00:02:48] Jason: Yeah, okay, you've got a great voice for it, so.  [00:02:51] Thank you very much.  [00:02:53] Yeah, so you were doing the radio.  [00:02:54] Kelly: Yeah, so I actually got into this market, and I liked it here. I actually, I did my two years and then moved to a bigger market. I was in Hartford, Connecticut for a while. [00:03:03] And then an opportunity to come back presented itself. And I came back because I genuinely like the area. And you know, the inexpensive real estate was an attraction. And then My husband and I got into investing in properties. We built up quite a portfolio. We had 25 units of our own at one point. [00:03:20] We're down to 14 now. We sold a few off that, you know, really weren't moneymakers for us. But, you know, as you live and you grow in this business, you learn what makes money and what doesn't. And I learned how to manage property the hard way.  [00:03:33] Jason: But you learned it.  [00:03:34] Kelly: Yes. I made all the mistakes.  [00:03:37] Jason: Yeah. And that's sometimes learning through mistakes and pain. [00:03:41] I sometimes joke that DoorGrow was built on thousands of mistakes.  [00:03:45] Kelly: You're telling me. And I will introduce My biggest pain point in just a second here. So what caused me to join DoorGrow is my husband's a real estate broker. And so people were banging on his door. "Can you manage my property? Can you manage my property?" It's like, "well, I don't do that, but my wife does."  [00:04:03] Jason: Yeah.  [00:04:04] Kelly: And I'm like, well, I can't manage their property. I don't have a real estate license. And so it was a whole year of, "come on! Just get the license. Just do it! Just do it. Come on!" So I got the license. And I took on one of his investor clients, and I joined DoorGrow, like all in the same day. [00:04:23] And what I found out when I joined DoorGrow was I never should have taken on that client.  [00:04:27] Jason: That was the price of tuition. It's one of the key lessons that defines you in business, which is you learn those lessons and not take on bad clients. Well, I mean, for us, it's been really inspiring and exciting to see your journey as an entrepreneur and see you kind of get all this ready and get things developed and start to grow. [00:04:46] And so, we were talking about it, like, what should we talk about on the podcast today with Kelly? And you had mentioned.  [00:04:53] Sarah: Yeah, I had said, I think for me, one of the biggest shifts that I've seen in Kelly again and again and again is shifts in mindset because it was just even a few weeks ago where maybe a month ago or something, was relatively recent, where you were saying like, "oh, I read this book and it changed my life I'm waking up at like 4:30 in the morning and structuring my day different" and it was just again and again. But you've had these little shifts that end up leading to these huge changes for you and how you run things and how you structure your day and like just even your, your energy levels seem to be more protected now. [00:05:32] Kelly: Yeah, I'm not getting up at 4:30 in the morning anymore. Although I just learned yesterday I might have to start again because my daughter wants to join the swim team. Oh. And they practice it. 5 a. m. sometimes, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's been a struggle because I'm not only a real estate entrepreneur. [00:05:48] I am also, you know, a wife of a whirlwind. I mean, my husband is a broker. He's into wholesaling. He's into flipping. And I go to manage him.  [00:05:58] Jason: The whirlwind broker.  [00:06:00] Kelly: Yeah, and,  [00:06:02] Jason: yeah.  [00:06:02] Kelly: No, we'll say no more about that.  [00:06:04] Sarah: There's a lot going on. [00:06:05] Lots of moving pieces.  [00:06:06] Kelly: He's a genius. He's like a Bill Gates level genius. [00:06:09] I'm just waiting for the ship to come in. Yeah, nice. It's been 30 years, but it's coming.  [00:06:13] Jason: So what do you feel like maybe was the first mindset thing that you noticed in Kelly, kind of overcoming? Or what do you feel like was your first?  [00:06:22] Sarah: I don't know if I can think of a first, but I know that there's been several that I'd like to highlight. [00:06:27] Jason: Okay.  [00:06:27] Sarah: So I think one of the things is being much more picky with what clients you take on and what properties you take on and how you kind of screen and vet people.  [00:06:41] Jason: Maybe that first client helped you learn that lesson.  [00:06:44] Sarah: Yes.  [00:06:45] Jason: Yeah. So what, what was the lesson there? Like, what did you figure out?  [00:06:48] Kelly: Oh, wow. You know, the, the first thing is I have to see if our philosophies match. [00:06:53] Jason: You and the client.  [00:06:54] Kelly: Yes. And when I got into real estate investing, I admit I'm a bit of an idealist. I know you're into personality types.  [00:07:01] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:01] Kelly: And I test as an INFP.  [00:07:03] Jason: Okay.  [00:07:03] Kelly: So I probably have no business being in any business at all, but yet here I am. But I'm a dreamer. I'm a visionary. And so my first company was, and still is called Good People, Good Homes, LLC. [00:07:15] And I own property in that LLC. I'm not really doing business in it. It just holds property for me. But when I started it, it was supposed to be the company and it was: you buy these distressed properties in these neighborhoods and you fix them up and you put great people in them and it brings up the whole neighborhood and then everybody loves you and we hold hands and sing Kumbaya and that didn't really happen. [00:07:36] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:36] Kelly: But I did improve a lot of properties.  [00:07:39] Jason: Okay.  [00:07:39] Kelly: Right. Yeah.  [00:07:41] Sarah: I think arguably in this market, you are outdoing anything that I've ever seen because the befores and afters are just wild. And the rent rates before and after are wild. And this area, yes, you can absolutely get a great deal, a great bargain on real estate, and that doesn't come without its challenges and its problems. [00:08:06] But one of the things that I think is just so great in this area that you do is you take these distressed properties and you make them beautiful and livable and safe. And you provide a wonderful home now on something before that was dilapidated.  [00:08:25] Kelly: And the market's full of C class properties. You know, I hear a lot of property managers say, "Why are you even bothering with those?" [00:08:31] Well, honestly, there isn't anything else. Yeah, that's what we hear. You work with what you got. And I probably wouldn't be a real estate investor if the market wasn't like this. Because that's how I got in. I didn't make a ton of money in radio. I didn't. But I made enough to get in, you know, with a C class property. [00:08:48] And now those C class properties are paying for my life, and my daughter's life, and it's beautiful. The property management company? That's just icing on the cake, but I think it might even eclipse what I've been able to do with my rentals.  [00:09:00] Jason: Oh, I'm sure.  [00:09:01] Kelly: And there's a need for it.  [00:09:02] Jason: Yeah. Big need.  [00:09:04] Kelly: Yeah. So the biggest thing I learned, back to your question about how to vet clients, does their philosophy match mine? Do they believe their C class property could be turned into a desirable place to live? And yes, you will be charging market rent for that, which is a lot more than maybe you thought you could charge. And you'll get a better class tenant that way. Or are they just happy not doing anything to the property, just letting it be what it is and getting whoever they can get into it and, you know, getting whatever money they can for it. I don't really want to work with those people.  [00:09:38] Jason: Do you find part of this though is just selling? [00:09:41] It's like convincing them to align with your vision? Because it sounds like you have a better vision than a lot of the people that might come to you.  [00:09:48] Kelly: Sometimes when I show them the spreadsheet, of, you know, what I've done for some of my other clients, including the first one that I told you about. I mean, I really turned some of his properties around. [00:09:59] And I've tried to fire him twice. Yeah.  [00:10:01] He won't go and, you know, he's also a third of my income, so I'm going to keep him on. And, but the thing is, he's kind of listening to me now. Kind of.  [00:10:11] Sarah: He's open. Well, I think. It's like a walnut shell. We've just cracked it open. Maybe some of the good ideas are seeping through. [00:10:18] Jason: I've talked about this before, but I think also part of it is, as we've seen, you come into your own in more confidence in what you're doing and the more confident you are, the more some of these A personality types or these difficult personality types will kind of abdicate and allow you to lead them. [00:10:36] And I talk about metaphorically punching people in the face sometimes. So you probably maybe punched them in the face metaphorically a couple of times since then. And so setting those healthier boundaries. Is something we naturally do when we start to believe in ourselves more. And so what other shifts do you feel like you've noticed in Kelly? [00:10:55] Or what are some of the things that DoorGrow's helped you with? Are you making changes too?  [00:10:59] Kelly: Well, like Sarah said, a lot of the mindset stuff, I mean, a big revelation came to me when I was at DoorGrow live.  [00:11:05] Jason: Yeah, what was that?  [00:11:07] Kelly: Well, first of all, getting to DoorGrow Live was a challenge because I was in the midst of my survival mode. [00:11:13] I'm a solopreneur still. I do everything myself. My husband's my broker of record, but, like, he's off doing his thing. Sure. So.  [00:11:21] Jason: You were doing everything, you're really busy, and you're like, how do I take a break to even just go to DoorGrow Live?  [00:11:26] Kelly: Yeah, and, you know, then I've got this mindset that, you know, how can I afford it? [00:11:30] But the thing is, I did have the money to go. That's another thing. I've got a poverty mindset I need to get past. And when I went to DoorGrow Live, that was really thrown in my face. Because I was talking about the challenges of being a solopreneur. And one of the pieces of advice that I was given by one of the speakers is, "What's your time worth?" [00:11:49] You know, you can't be doing all of these things when you pay somebody. Yeah, and I thought, well, what's my time worth? And then this little voice in the back of my head said, well, not a whole heck of a lot.  [00:12:00] Jason: You told everybody that. You said, "not a whole heck of a lot."  [00:12:04] Kelly: Yeah.  [00:12:04] Jason: And we're like, "oh, okay."  [00:12:06] Kelly: Yeah.  [00:12:07] Jason: Yeah. [00:12:07] Kelly: Well, I mean, that comes from, you know, my background. I grew up without a lot.  [00:12:11] Jason: Yeah. You know,  [00:12:12] Kelly: I saw my parents struggle. They're working class people. You know, I got into an industry that was on its, you know, downslide when I, I started on the radio in you know, the early nineties, you know, probably right after it started to slide down and, you know, there've been multiple layoffs and, you know, voice tracking and automation and, you know, I survived, but I think one of the reasons I survived was I was willing to work really hard for not a whole lot of compensation. [00:12:40] Jason: Sure.  [00:12:40] Kelly: You know, as people were let go and reductions in force, I was given more duties, but not more money.  [00:12:47] Jason: Sure.  [00:12:48] Kelly: And, you know, you do that long enough, you start getting the message that, oh, well, your time really isn't worth a whole heck of a lot.  [00:12:54] Jason: Yeah.  [00:12:55] Kelly: Yeah.  [00:12:56] Jason: Who decides what your time's worth?  [00:12:57] Kelly: I do.  [00:12:58] Jason: Yeah. I do. [00:12:59] Yes.  [00:12:59] Kelly: I do.  [00:13:00] Yeah!  [00:13:01] And, you know, that's... [00:13:02] you do now. Yes.  [00:13:03] Jason: How has that shifted for you then? What's your perception of your time and the value of it? of your time now?  [00:13:09] Kelly: My perception of my time is, you know, first of all, I don't need to be tied to the Henry Ford 40 hour work week or even the 50-60-70-80 hour work week that I hear people say you "should" do when you're running a business because, you know, it's impractical. [00:13:24] I have a daughter. She's a teenager. She's just started high school this year. She's a field hockey athlete and now she wants to be on the swim team and she's got needs. Mhm. Right? I've got a husband who does not have a cushy job I can fall back on while I do my entrepreneurial thing.  [00:13:40] Jason: Right. Right. [00:13:41] Kelly: He's also an entrepreneur. [00:13:43] We are living off self employment income. So it is a constant, you know, point of stress. So, you know, I need to find out my key productivity time, and that's when I work. And sometimes I get four or five hours a day, and that's it, of key productivity time. But then I find myself, you know, when I'm walking the dog, having all these great ideas. [00:14:06] You know, I do things like I listen to your podcast you know, some great audio books that have been recommended to me. I devoured The One Thing by Gary Keller, the Profit First book. And I'm starting to implement these ideas. And it's just sort of like they're ladder steps.  [00:14:23] Jason: So basically, little by little, you've been investing in yourself by leveraging reading, getting coaching, doing this stuff. [00:14:31] And that's translated into you valuing yourself a little bit more.  [00:14:35] Yeah.  [00:14:35] Awesome.  [00:14:36] Kelly: Absolutely. And I've learned to turn things over, like maintenance, you know, I hired one of the vendors that you recommended, Vendoroo and they're, you know, the tenants still text me with maintenance issues. [00:14:47] Sure. And I text back, "put it in the portal." Right. "If you can't put it in the portal, call this number and they'll teach you how to put it in the portal."  [00:14:55] Jason: But yeah, probably less willing to take phone calls than you were before.  [00:14:58] Kelly: Yeah, I've never really taken phone calls.  [00:15:00] Jason: That's good, that's good. [00:15:02] Kelly: Thanks me. Get it all in writing.  [00:15:04] Jason: So you went through our whole rapid revamp process as well, like with the branding and like getting everything kind of dialed in, pricing. You've implemented a lot of things. And so, has that impacted your confidence level as well?  [00:15:20] Kelly: Oh, absolutely. I really feel like, you know, I'm marketing a real brand now with Crimson Cape. [00:15:25] Jason: Yeah. What, what was it before that?  [00:15:26] Kelly: GPGH Management Company.  [00:15:29] Jason: Oh, the acronym.  [00:15:30] Kelly: Yep. Good People, Good Homes.  [00:15:32] Jason: Yeah.  [00:15:32] Kelly: You know, just to take off of that and, you know, everything was GPGH. My husband was GPGH Realty.  [00:15:38] Jason: It sounds like some sort of drug or something. What do you take in GPGH? [00:15:42] Kelly: Well, it's the right market. [00:15:44] Jason: Okay. Well, then there's that GLP 1 joke too that you could put in there. GLP 1. Yeah. But my husband actually reprinted his real estate company because of, you know, he was inspired by what I did.  [00:15:54] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What's his brand?  [00:15:56] Kelly: He's Gorilla Real Estate. That's the little stuffed gorilla you saw on the way in. [00:16:00] Jason: Okay, yeah. Yeah, and they're different, which is nice. They're not like, you know, kind of mixed together.  [00:16:06] Kelly: Right, right. And I don't want, you know, people to really associate us together, even though we do share an office.  [00:16:11] Jason: Yeah.  [00:16:12] For now.  [00:16:13] So you've gone through the branding, your pricing is different than anyone else in the market. [00:16:19] Kelly: Yeah. It's higher than anyone else in the market too. And that keeps a lot of the riffraff away.  [00:16:24] Jason: Yeah. It's better to be at the top than to be competing with the garbage at the bottom. For sure. Yeah. Especially in a difficult or lower end market. Yeah. Yeah. So awesome. What other changes?  [00:16:36] Sarah: I think, well, how many, we've gone through the rapid revamp a couple of times, so she's done the mindset piece a few times, and I think every time you go through it, you kind of get, like, an extra layer out of it, like almost like the next, like we're stacking like, levels and levels and levels of different like mindset tips and tricks, and then the perception piece, which once we're done with the little pieces on the website, we can get that launched for you. [00:17:04] I think that will make a huge difference. And recently. I mean, for the whole entirety of the time that you were in our program, you had always said "there is no way I can add more units. There is no way I can do more work. There is no way I can even focus on growth." And you are now adding new doors. [00:17:24] Kelly: Yep, I added three last week. I added another two Sunday night from a current client. I didn't know she had another double block. You know how I got those doors? She called me from you know, her poor husband is at the Cleveland Clinic. So she called me from Cleveland and she's like "I got a no heat call from this one building that you're not managing And I can't deal with it. Can you please take these units?"  [00:17:47] Jason: Nice.  [00:17:48] Kelly: So I just got two more doors.  [00:17:49] Jason: Okay.  [00:17:50] Kelly: And I'm hopefully closing on another five by the end of the week.  [00:17:53] Yes! [00:17:55] Jason: So doors are just starting to flow and you're able to dedicate time now towards growth which before you're kind of  [00:18:01] Kelly: yeah  [00:18:01] Jason: Chicken with head cut off running around and dealing with stuff. [00:18:04] Kelly: It's going to get a little iffy again now that I've added these doors, you know, okay. Now I have to onboard all these tenants. And there's a couple that come with the vacant units that they want me to rent in January?  [00:18:16] Jason: Yeah.  [00:18:17] Sarah: The best time of year here.  [00:18:21] Jason: Right. Lots of activity.  [00:18:23] Sarah: Speaking of vacant units, You have none now in the portfolio that you're Managing? [00:18:28] My current portfolio, I filled them all.  [00:18:31] Yeah, and how many did you have? Because I feel like all throughout the year I was getting updates and it was like 20 something and down a little bit, down a little bit, and now you're at zero.  [00:18:41] Kelly: Yeah, I filled I think 17 units over the course of the last year. [00:18:45] Amazing.  [00:18:46] 10 of them were filled between September and now.  [00:18:50] Jason: Nice. Wow.  [00:18:50] Kelly: And I've got a few that are coming up. I've got, you know, two of my tenants are moving into senior housing. So, you know, that means I'm probably going to have to redo their apartments because they've been living there since like 1965 or whatever. [00:19:04] I'm sure they're going to need to be some updates.  [00:19:07] Jason: So in getting this business started, if you hadn't heard about DoorGrow, or say, DoorGrow didn't exist. Where would you be you think right now?  [00:19:15] Kelly: Oh my gosh.  [00:19:16] Jason: What'd be going on?  [00:19:17] Kelly: I'm not sure I'd still be doing it.  [00:19:19] Jason: You think you would have quit?  [00:19:20] Kelly: With this client that I took on from the beginning, if I didn't know any better, I would think this is what property management is. [00:19:27] Jason: And you'd be like, yeah, right, so talking with us saying you should probably fire this client was probably enough to go, "okay, this may not be everybody."  [00:19:35] Kelly: Right. [00:19:36] Jason: Okay. [00:19:36] Kelly: Right, right. And you know, and you also helped me work with this client. So he's still my client, and he could be a very good client now that his buildings are cash flowing. But that remains to be seen because I got a little pushback on a repair last night that I wasn't real happy with, but we'll see. [00:19:53] Jason: You're going to set some strong boundaries with this guy.  [00:19:56] Kelly: I might have to punch him in the face a third time.  [00:19:58] Jason: Metaphorically. Right, right. Metaphorically, we're not advocating violence. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Well anything else that we should chat about or cover? I mean, it's really been, like I said at the beginning, it's been inspiring and exciting to see you grow. [00:20:13] We're really excited to see where you take this and we've seen just it and that's why we do what we do. It's great to see clients just grow like you've come so far. Your whole energy is just different. Just how you are from when we saw you at DoorGrow live and you're like, well, what's your time worth? [00:20:29] And you're, you've spouted off, "well, not very much," you know, or whatever you've come a long way. And I'm really excited to see where you go with this because this could be a really great residual income business. I think absolutely it will overshadow what you're making off your rental properties, but then it also feed you some more real estate deals in the future. [00:20:47] For sure as you, as you work this. And so, yeah, I think it'll be interesting. And how does the, the king of Gorilla Real Estate feel about everything that you're doing?  [00:20:56] Kelly: Oh, he's incredibly supportive. Yeah. I think he misses when I used to just, you know, clean up his bookkeeping for him. We now have to hire someone to do that. [00:21:05] Jason: Mm-hmm. Yes. Those wealthy problems. Yeah.  [00:21:07] Kelly: And yeah, and that's another mindset thing I need to get over. And you cover this in the rapid revamp when you're talking about, you know, the three types of clients you got, your, your normals, which you're, you're aiming for.  [00:21:18] Jason: Yeah.  [00:21:18] Kelly: But then you've got, you know, your cheapos and your premiums. [00:21:21] Sure.  [00:21:21] Jason: Yeah.  [00:21:21] Kelly: And and, and one of the things you talked about, the cheapos is. Are you a cheapo?  [00:21:27] Jason: Oh. Yeah.  [00:21:27] Kelly: And I realize that, yeah, I kind of am a cheapo.  [00:21:30] Jason: You get what you attract. Huh. And so, yeah, we're blind, we have a blind spot towards which category we are showing up as, and so stretching yourself to not be a cheapo. [00:21:41] Kelly: I grew up with nothing. You know, I grew up with nothing, so, yeah, that's why I'm a cheapo.  [00:21:47] Sarah: Yeah. And I get it, because I too was in that mindset, especially when I lived here.  [00:21:52] This area is in that mindset. [00:21:54] Yes, the whole area is very, and when you find someone who kind of breaks through that bubble, It's odd here, right? [00:22:03] And it's different. And it's weird. And it's like, what are they doing? What is this all about? This is just weird. Like, why are you not, you know, normal like us? And when that was something that I had struggled with for a very, very long time, too, because back when I had lived here, I thought, "okay, well, I want to make more money. And like, I need to make more money. And the only way I can do that is I can either work more hours and maybe get some overtime or maybe I can find a job that's going to pay me more and or ask for a raise, or and this is my go to strategy, was let's just work two jobs, three jobs, four jobs." I was working four jobs at a time. [00:22:44] I was working seven days a week and I did that for years and years and years just because, well, this job I maxed out on and I can't get any more money out of here, but I need more money, so, oh, let me just add on another job. Yeah, so I understand that completely and it was just, it was with time that that started to just crack and shift a little bit. [00:23:02] Jason: Kind of the trap of time for dollars. As if that's the only way.  [00:23:07] Sarah: Absolutely. Absolutely.  [00:23:09] Jason: So yeah, so being exposed just to other people that are not of that mindset probably is cracks that glass ceiling you spoke of a little bit before maybe.  [00:23:19] Kelly: Right. Yeah. And what I'm noticing is that I'm attracting people, local people, that have a similar mindset and they exist. [00:23:28] You know, there's a lot of entrepreneurs in this area. Chris Jones started Pepper Jam, and he decided to keep his company here.  [00:23:34] Sarah: Oh, wow.  [00:23:34] Kelly: Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a few. Tech company, you might have heard of them. But yeah, there's, there's a few.  [00:23:39] Jason: So, you are no longer a cheapo.  [00:23:42] Kelly: No. I, well, I'm working on it. [00:23:45] I'm working on it. I catch myself.  [00:23:46] Jason: You say... [00:23:47] Kelly: I am no longer a cheapo.  [00:23:49] Jason: I am more normal.  [00:23:51] Kelly: I am more normal.  [00:23:52] Jason: Graduating towards premium.  [00:23:53] Kelly: And I'm graduating towards premium.  [00:23:55] Jason: It's good to be premium. We get to decide this, right? We get to decide this. [00:24:00] And so as you stretch yourself into more premium experience and recognizing, like, money is not the painful thing to be focused on, there's, and there's better things to be focused on that are more valuable and more important, like your time. And as you put a greater and greater premium on your time, you shift out of that currency of cash being the, you know, the God of your life controlling you and then you can start to be grateful. [00:24:26] And I think one of the key things for everybody listening is when we start to celebrate all of the things that we used to complain about related to money, I think this is how we shift out of that poverty mindset is, oh, we got to pay this bill. Thank you God that I have lights and power that I'm able to afford to do this. [00:24:44] Or thank you that I'm able to do this. And when we start to be grateful instead of projecting pain every time we see or hear money, And we start to project gratitude, then we start to attract more money. Like we start to be open to that. And as we shift into normal, yeah, we attract more normals. As we shift into premium, we attract more premium clients. [00:25:05] And they recognize you. It's like, there's a knowing between you and them, like, yeah, this is how it works. You come to us and we take care of everything and we take care of you and you get a premium service and product and they're like, "yeah, that's what I want." because premium buyers, when they see people that are cheapos. [00:25:20] They can like kind of smell it on you, right? So then they're like, "I don't want to work with this person. They're not going to take care of my property the way that I would want or do things or take care of me the way that I want." And so investing in ourselves. Sometimes for me, one of my coaches said, "go get a massage, you know, go do things to invest or take care of yourself to where you feel like..." you know, anything where we say, I think the poverty mindset is we hear this voice that says, " I don't need that nicer car. You don't need to go get a massage. Why do you need that?" Normal and premium is about shifting beyond need, right? Need is scarcity, need is starving, and need is survival, and so, and then what happens is we have to create drama or problems in our life in order to justify taking time off, so we have to get sick, or we have to justify it. [00:26:09] Doing something and so when we shift out of that then we shift into a healthier state where we can decide I am going to take a vacation or I am going to take time off. I'm going to go to DoorGrow live. You should all go to DoorGrow live, so.  [00:26:20] Sarah: I highly recommend coming up in May!  [00:26:23] Jason: It's coming up in May. Go to doorgrowlive.Com. So, all right anything else we should touch on?  [00:26:28] Sarah: One thing and I don't know if I've ever said this on the coach a call where you've been on but for me, it was actually Roya Mattis. She, at the time, was in Mary Kay like, and I was in cosmetic sales for Mary Kay, and It was very early in my Mary Kay career and I was kind of learning how to be entrepreneur ish, right? [00:26:53] Like, "Oh, I can write these things off and I can do things differently" and, "Oh, this is an expense, but it's a good expense." And it was a lot of new things for me. And one of the things that she had said is and I'll never forget because it just stuck with me and I went, "Oh, okay." Yeah, I need to stop thinking like that right now. [00:27:11] Is " come tax time, there are people who can't wait for tax time because they're waiting. They're depending on that refund and they're like, 'Oh, thank God I get this refund.' Right?" [00:27:21] A lot of rent gets caught up in it. [00:27:23] It sure does. Yeah. Funny. All of a sudden they have money. So. Once you start really making money, though, you don't get refunds anymore. [00:27:33] What ends up happening is you pay money. And not only do you pay money into it, but you now are, like, quarterly paying money. But you don't have to do that if you're, like, barely scraping by, if you're not making money. So, what she said to me is, " when you're, like, rich and you're making money You're excited to pay this money because you're making so much money that now, not only are not going to get a refund, but you don't, you don't worry about the refund, you're making money and now you're paying the taxes and you are going to hit a point where you want to be paying taxes more often than just once a year because that means you've reached a certain level and now you're making a certain amount of money and your goal at that point is then going to be, 'well, how can I increase this?'" [00:28:24] And that for me, it just stuck in my head forever. And I went, "Oh. Oh, geez. I didn't even realize that." And at that time I was, I was. Like, "well, I'm going to get a couple thousand dollars back, like on my tax refund." I haven't gotten a refund in years. And it's true though. It's just a different way of thinking about things. [00:28:40] It's like, well, you know, if you make this tiny little bit of money and then I can get, you know, a couple thousand dollars back at the end of the year, or I can make a whole lot more money. And then, yes, I have to make some quarterly tax payments. Man, I'd rather make a lot more money and I'll just give the government some of it. [00:28:54] And then what you have to do is just figure out how can we reduce that as much as possible.  [00:28:59] Jason: I would love to see taxes just be reduced dramatically. So, we'll see.  [00:29:04] Kelly: But, who knows what they're going to do.  [00:29:05] Jason: I don't get super excited about paying taxes, but I do get excited. I would rather, like, see more income on my tax return. [00:29:13] You know taxes every time so.  [00:29:14] Sarah: Would you rather make the big amount of money so that you have to pay the taxes in or would you make a really small amount of money so that you get a refund?  [00:29:22] Kelly: Yeah, just a really good accountant that can help you zig when the government zags  [00:29:26] Sarah: So that that was something that she said to me and I went oh, okay, that is a very different way of thinking about it. [00:29:33] And it just, just stuck with me.  [00:29:35] Jason: Yeah. Always looking through the lens of 'why is this positive?' it's a healthy mindset for sure. Yeah. Why are taxes positive? All right. Everybody listening is like, "they're not."  [00:29:45] Sarah: I know. Right. Cool. My brother wants a shout out. So shout out to Jason.  [00:29:50] Jason: What's up, Jason? [00:29:51] Sarah: He's like, "you never shout me out!" Here, here you are. The three of us are waving to you now. So, what's up, Jason?  [00:29:58] Jason: No, he's got the same name as me. Everybody's like, what's that all about?  [00:30:01] He's dating a Sarah.  [00:30:03] Kelly: Oh!  [00:30:04] Jason: Which is funny. And you have a stepsister, that's Sarah, so he's got two, three Sarahs in his life right now. [00:30:13] Three Sarahs, two Jasons, and a partridge in a pear tree. All right. Cool. Well, Kelly, it's been great coming to hang out in your office and to meet you in person like here in Pennsylvania. Thanks for hosting the DoorGrow show and having us hang out with you and we're excited to see where you go and how you progress in the program and all the things you're going to do as you add doors. [00:30:36] And I think the future is really bright for Crimson Property Management, Crimson Cape. Hey, I missed the Cape. It's like superhero stuff here. Yes. I am. I love it. All right. And that's it. So if you are tuning in, make sure to check us out at DoorGrow. com. And if you are wanting to grow your property management business, or you are getting burnt out on it, or you are one of the many sucky property management companies that exist, you don't have to be. [00:31:04] It could be good. It could be better. Then reach out to us. We would love to help you scale and grow your business. We help people from startup all the way to breaking the thousand door barrier. Whatever your goal is reach out to us. Check us out at DoorGrow. com. Bye everyone.  [00:31:18] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:31:45] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Even with all of the property management software and tools breaking onto the scene lately, it seems that some entrepreneurs are still identifying gaps they could potentially fill… In today's episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Eric Nelsen of Walkthroo to talk about a new maintenance solution in development for property managers and vendors. You'll Learn [03:36] What is Walkthroo? [08:43] Developing Software and Utilizing AI [16:52] Getting Time Back with User-Friendly Tools [23:02] Get in Touch with Walkthroo Tweetables  ” It's a lot easier to make changes to software when you're smaller and you're getting things started and you're doing it in the right way.” “ Time is probably the biggest benefit we provide.” “ Vendors in a lot of situations end up being the eyes, ears and hands for the property manager.” “ User experience is a big deal when designing software.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: It's a lot easier to make changes to software when you're smaller and you're getting things started and you're doing it in the right way. Once it turns into a giant beast and it's old, then it's really difficult.  [00:00:11] Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not, because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:00:52] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. [00:01:12] Now let's get into the show. And today I'm hanging out with Eric Nelson of Walkthroo. Eric, welcome to the DoorGrow Show.  [00:01:21] Eric: Thanks, Jason. Glad to be here.  [00:01:23] Jason: So Eric I would love to first get into your background. And my wife's chiming in saying I need to remember to promote DoorGrow live today, so I'll just do that right now real quick, and then we'll get to you, Eric. So if you are a property manager and you're watching this make sure you get tickets to DoorGrow Live like this is the most contribution focused, holistic property management conference in the industry. [00:01:44] We do things very differently. "There's heart" is kind of the feedback we get from others. People cry at our events. Like it's really awesome. It's going to be at the Kalahari resort here in Round Rock, Texas. And get your tickets right now. They go up in price over time. So head on over to DoorGrowLive.Com and get your tickets and be there. We've got sponsors. We've got cool speakers. It's going to be awesome. And DoorGrow magic is there. You're going to learn about growing your business from Sarah and myself and we'll help you out. All right, cool. Shameless plug inserted. [00:02:20] Now, Eric, I would love to get into your background. [00:02:23] You know, we hung out briefly in in Austin you came out and got to know each other a little bit, but I want my audience to get to know you share a little bit about How you kind of got into entrepreneurism, how you got into this. So tell us a little bit about your background.  [00:02:37] Eric: Yeah, sure. Sure. I grew up in Houston, Texas kind of came up through the finance world. So I spent about 10, 15 years in finance, went to grad school at Rice in Houston, and I just couldn't walk down the finance hallway. I saw the entrepreneurial professors down a different hallway, really wanted to kind of do my own thing. [00:02:55] So you know, stayed in finance for a couple more years and got into the pharmacy business. And through that business, I got exposed to IT technology and building software to kind of run our pharmacies and improve our ops and, and run those companies. And then a good friend of mine in Shreveport Springs, Texas was is a general contractor and said he works with these property managers and they, he does a lot of maintenance for rentals. [00:03:20] And he said, "yeah, Eric, I want to take on more business, but I can't keep track. There's so many little jobs. There's so much communication going on, text, emails, phone calls. You've got a software background. Can you help me?" And so that's, what's really exposed me to the property management industry and kind of started me on this path. [00:03:36] Got it. All right. So let's get into talking a little bit about Walkthroo and what it is. And it's, it's "walk T-H-R-O-O. So tell us a little bit about Walkthroo and what is it? What does it do?  [00:03:52] Yeah. So Walkthroo is, it's a really kind of a mindset and approach to the business and the underlying core is as much as accounting and tenant screening and even inspections, that software, those tools have grown, you know, with technological advances and whatnot. [00:04:13] If you really look at what we think is one of the four main pillars of property management is the maintenance, that hasn't grown. I mean, if you look back 10 years ago you really couldn't get multiple bids to do any work. If you look back 10 years ago, you couldn't pull up on your screen and compare two different bids. [00:04:29] 10 years ago, you couldn't split charges on an invoice between a tenant and owner. And you look today, fast forward 10 years, and I would say You know, 90- 95 percent of the platforms, you still cannot do those things. Well, when my partner brought me into this, you know, first he wanted me to help him with his, you know, just his construction company, but we quickly realized the problem wasn't him. [00:04:52] It was the property managers he was working with and the inefficiencies that came with the way they handle maintenance. So right out of the gate within a month. We switched that mantra. We're going to work to help property managers. And so that's really been what Walkthroo's focus has been the last three years. [00:05:09] And we really just, again, within the first three months we can get multiple bidders, we can split charges. And so it just showed me right away that it's not for a lack of technology or, you know, lack of know how even. It's just when you look at these software platforms and these operating systems, they just have bigger fish to fry. [00:05:27] They, you know, they all agree we should be able to hire multiple bidders with a couple clicks, but we're going to spend time doing X. So I can't explain it, but again, within the first six months, we had all these features built. And so now we're coming up on three years. We're really looking to round out the platform and keep growing. [00:05:45] Jason: Okay. So besides doing multiple bids and splitting charges, what would you say Walkthroo is? Like, what is, what does it accomplish?  [00:05:53] Eric: So we're going to be a full operating system for property managers. We started backwards. I spoke with the former CEO of Buildium post sale to real page. [00:06:03] And he told me flat out, "we did a lot of great things." I think they were in 19 countries at the time. He's like, "but I'll be honest here. We never figured out maintenance. And so if that's where you're starting, you know, good on you. Good luck." And so we started with maintenance and we built our platform around maintenance. [00:06:18] We've recently added inspections. And so we'll keep growing. So Walkthroo will be A full suite of operating suite for property managers. Currently, we're not there yet, I'm going to go through a couple of rounds of raising money. Currently, we're a maintenance tool. People can use our platform. And we also provide maintenance services still. [00:06:39] So that's, that's, that's kind of what we do today. And the third leg, which just launched, is, and this is probably the most unique feature of what we're building, every other maintenance tool or platform or operating platform out there has property manager and they invite people in and the people have to learn how to use your system and whatnot. We actually sell our software straight to contractors. [00:07:02] So they're using it independent of property management They're using it to paint houses, do handyman jobs around around their cities, and so we're building this network where property managers will be on Walkthroo, the contractors are on Walkthroo, and it's just a simple connection and you don't have, you know, the training and, you know, as a vendor ourselves the last few years, I've been through some trainings to use different systems and I can imagine. It's can like a painter, you know, in downtown Austin that has two employees trying to figure out all these platforms and how to work with these clients. So we're, our goal is to really simplify all that for all the stakeholders.  [00:07:39] Jason: Got it. So it sounds like Walkthroo, you're building this from the ground up. [00:07:43] You're building it as a tool to support and help based on what business owners actually need in property management. You started with one of the biggest challenges, which is maintenance. You're now adding inspections, you're adding other things. And the goal, the roadmap is to make it a full suite that helps maybe a better property management back office or software solution. [00:08:05] So the next big piece is then I'm sure on the roadmap somewhere is accounting and, tenant portals, owner portals, so they can see statements and submit the maintenance request, maybe like all of this kind of stuff. And so yeah, and I don't, I think that there's, there hasn't been a lot of innovation. [00:08:23] We've seen Rentvine come out recently. And it was born kind of out of a lot of complaints people were having about Appfolio. Appfolio was kind of born out of a lot of complaints people were having about maybe Buildium and Propertyware. Right. Right. And so, you know, when software is born out of complaints, you know, of different tools, yeah, it's going to be better than that tool, but it is interesting to start from the ground up building around the needs of and supporting the property manager and the work that they're doing. It'll be very interesting to see where you guys end up and what's kind of the timeline for all of this? [00:08:55] Eric: Well, you know, it depends on fundraising, right? So it's expensive, especially, you get into the accounting engines and a lot of that. There's a lot of costs involved. So we're hoping in the next You know, 12 to 18 months, we'd have a product out of, you know, for small property managers to run their business off our platform. [00:09:12] Jason: That's pretty fast. That's really the goal right now. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Yeah. And it sounds like you guys move quickly. You know. It's a lot easier to make changes to software when you're smaller and you're getting things started and you're doing it in the right way. Once it turns into a giant beast and it's old, then it's really difficult. [00:09:30] Like some of the older maintenance software companies I'm sure they're toying with the idea. Like, should we just rebuild from scratch or throw all this away? Or do we just work this until this horse dies, you know? And so that's always the challenge with software. [00:09:46] And then adoption is always a big challenge. So getting people to use something new or to change to something else. And a lot of times it's easier to get the smaller guys and the smaller companies to make changes. And the big companies are usually watching the little guys make all the mistakes or test stuff out or see. [00:10:04] And then they stand back to wait to see who the winners are. So...  [00:10:08] Eric: yeah, yeah. And thankfully I've got some experience on our side. My partner, Travis, he before he got into construction, him and his dad ran a small microscope specialized software company they sell it to universities. I don't know the ins and outs of it, but they could like take a laser and look into this, you know, the elemental makeup of a molecule. [00:10:26] It was really, really specialized, but that was exactly where he came from. He's like, yeah, you could go with Hitachi or a big Japanese brand, but you can't get them on the phone. You know, like you said, they've, they've done good. They've built so big, but now that's a hindrance. And we're in the same path. [00:10:40] You know, we didn't have splitting the owner and tenant charges, but you know, after talking to a few clients and a few property managers, that was just a common, very common thing. And I said, "well, let's just build it." Well, we're small or nimble, you know, we can, we can get away with that. [00:10:53] So we're going to take that same approach as we go through the accounting side of things, you know, and just interviewing property managers and listening to the industry and saying, Hey, my background is finance and operations. And so, you know, when I met you, something you brought up a lot was transforming lives and, you know, kind of making people enjoy their work and that's something I don't see. When we launched this tool. We decided to launch it internally two years ago. So we haven't really been selling Walkthroo, we've been using it ourselves. We currently manage Over 250 jobs in nine states. And so I talked to more maintenance coordinators and property managers every day and a lot of them could be happier. [00:11:35] So as we build this out, we want these tools to allow some sort of automation and allow people to focus on growing doors and, you know, and doing other things that are more beneficial versus banging their head against walls.  [00:11:49] Jason: Sure. Yeah. I know property management business owners would much rather spend their time focusing on scaling their business than dealing with all the the nitty gritty day to day challenges and difficulty in all the tools that they're dealing with. [00:12:04] So Eric, we're in the middle of this AI revolution and you're like right in the middle of building this tool as we're coming into this new AI revolution where there's just tons of software just coming out. And people can create tools and software a lot more easily and their AI is helping them. [00:12:22] And then everyone's trying to integrate AI. And then you see all these companies that are dinosaurs. They're trying to strap chat GPT on the side of their crazy rollercoaster. And like, you know, say now we have AI. And so how's AI kind of tie into you guys, you know, getting Walkthroo built out? [00:12:43] Eric: Yeah, great question. We've got a roadmap for it. We don't have anything integrated yet. I think it's, it's too early, but you know, my background is really improving operations efficiencies. And so once we have this tool built out, then we will again, deploy AI where it makes sense. Like you said, it's a buzzword. [00:13:03] People will say everything is aI generated. It's like, no, that's just a search function, but call it AI. And so we, you know, we know most of the data. I'm not well tuned on the accounting yet, but definitely on the maintenance side, we know what data and what decisions are being made every day because again, we've lived that life and we're living it now we're doing jobs. [00:13:24] And so we will bring in AI kind of as we roll out the full suite, you know, I'm not sure to be perfectly honest. I don't know if it's going to be a heavy lift. I mean, again, it really comes down to the operations of the business and work and we see efficiencies and you know, there's some decisions you want eyes on, you know, you want, you want human interaction and others are a little more mundane task. [00:13:45] And so we, we are definitely have that in the playbook but I, at this point, you know, our plan is not to have this fully automated AI, you know, software, it's going to be just a much cleaner, easier tool to use and AI will be obviously just a natural component of that. [00:14:01] Jason: Got it. I mean, I think that makes sense. A lot of people start, you know, thinking, Oh, let's make AI do everything. But I think, I think it probably does make a lot more sense to make sure that the tools and systems are working for humans and they're working the right way first. And then AI create some leverage now that this is working well. [00:14:21] And I think that goes for how business owners should implement technology in general is you first do the process manually, and then you start to look for points of leverage and where can I leverage tech, where could a tool like Walkthroo facilitate what I'm doing now or help move things forward? So who's your current target audience? [00:14:39] Like, who are the people listening to this podcast that you think should reach out to Walkthroo to get an assessment on their current maintenance situation?  [00:14:49] Eric: Yeah. I mean, we've talked to everyone from PMI to sole proprietors to self managers. So I would say our sweet spot is probably property managers with, you know, 200 to 500 doors. [00:15:02] Seems to be small enough where the data is not overwhelming. They're doing a lot of work, I feel from what I've seen personally, and so working with Walkthroo helps some of that. And people can work with us in different ways. We some people just use our software. You know, we, If we can, if we can manage jobs across nine states, truly, you know, we know people can manage jobs in their own town or their own state and some of them just hire us as a, they just have us on their preferred vendor list, you know, we obviously I don't have staff in nine states, so I use my tool to manage jobs and manage vendors and the third way people can access and partner with us Is we come on as your maintenance coordinator, you know, we'll use their vendors, their top vendors, let us manage it. [00:15:43] One question I always ask property managers, not surprisingly, the answer is usually similar is, you know, "have you ever logged in as a vendor to whatever system are you using?" [00:15:51] " Well, why would I do that?" It's like, well, yeah, you probably wouldn't think of it, but I recommend it because you know, it's, it's one of those tasks. It's important, but it's also been done since the dawn of property management, I give someone a job, they go do it. But if you, if you're using tools, I recommend logging in as that contractor and seeing what they're seeing. And, oh, this is why it's hard to communicate because I can't upload anything or I can't text or, you know, whatever, whatever it may be. [00:16:20] So the maintenance coordinator role is something we've been taking on more and more where it's like, yeah, you give us your favorite painters and handyman, and we'll either API into your system, or you just send your tenants our way. You know, we structured any way that works best for our clients and the, let us do the dispatching, you know, all the status checks. [00:16:39] I mean, you know, it's just a constant barrage of phone calls every Monday morning on where we're at. And of course, Sunday night we send out reports so we don't have to get those calls. Those are the three ways that property managers can work with us currently.  [00:16:52] Jason: What, what are the results that people that start working will Walkthroo tend to notice or what sort of the changes that you're creating for these business owners.  [00:17:02] Eric: It's time. Time is probably the biggest benefit we provide. You know most I just mentioned the Monday check ins or daily check ins most maintenance tools that I've seen in, by the way, the other way that we know our, our tool is is well built, it's acting and being a vendor for the last three years. [00:17:21] I've logged into all the other tools. You know, when a property manager sees Walkthroo, yeah, they say Oh, Eric, yeah, we're always looking for a new painter. Here's our login to our system. Great. So immediately we take notes and, and figure out what's, what's wrong, but the time component I would say is probably the, the most we hear back on, on the biggest benefit and then most systems will have status indicators, maybe something's in progress. [00:17:44] We've got over 20 statuses. Are we waiting on the contractor to finish the work? Are we waiting on the tenant to accept the schedule and confirm it? Are we waiting on the after pictures to come in. I mean, there's all these nuanced steps that I think historically again, bigger companies are busy, but coming from at it from fresh from outside the industry, it was like, well, this is important to know if I know that I'm waiting on the tenant to confirm a schedule, I don't need to waste my time calling the contractor, ask what's going on. [00:18:14] And so those, that's a little microcosm of. How we built our system and also just a, again, just the workflow. I mean, I was shocked. None of the systems I've used since I've been in property management, offer me a way to do a change order. Very simple, very common request. And I have to like make a phone call or send an email. [00:18:32] And it's just time, time, time. So we make all that click, click, click.  [00:18:37] Jason: For the listeners. Explain a typical change order sort of situation.  [00:18:41] Eric: Leaky faucet. We've got a leaky faucet. We want somebody to go check it out. Contractor shows up on site, looks at a leaky faucet, and says, yeah, this faucet's leaking here. [00:18:51] I can fix that. But also, it created mold and damage all behind it. All under the counter. We've got to rip all these counters out. Well, that's not what the contractor was there sent to do. It's definitely not approved without, you know, anyone signing off on that. So he's got to communicate back to the property manager, "Hey, there's a much bigger issue here." [00:19:11] And so in the industry, it's, you know, typically referred to as a change order. And so now the contractor usually sits and waits and says, okay, I'll, I'll wait for the property manager to talk to the owner. And see if they want me to rip off this cabinet and do all this extra work. You know, I'm just, you know, I'm just a contractor. [00:19:28] Can I explain what I see? So now we're in a waiting game, right? So a week later, property manager boss comes in and says, "what's going on on one, two, three Smith street?"  [00:19:36] Jason: Yeah.  [00:19:37] Eric: "Oh, well, there was a problem."  [00:19:38] "Okay. What's going on now?" [00:19:40] "I don't know. Oh, it looks like, I think we're waiting for the owner to give us the green light to do the new repairs" [00:19:46] and so you can, you can step back and realize how that can. And you add that times 50 jobs or 100 jobs and it starts, it really adds up. So again, the way we built our system was to really eliminate a lot of that excess time. And where are we in this maintenance process? And just put it on the dashboard. [00:20:03] Just like, you know, many other things in life now. Put it in front of my face, so I know where all my jobs are and all my maintenance tasks are located.  [00:20:11] Jason: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I'm sure that's a challenge, like people discovering new work when they go out to do work. And there's also the issue a vendor goes out to do work and then they notice other stuff they think the property manager should be aware of. [00:20:25] And yeah, I mean, vendors in a lot of situations end up being the eyes, ears and hands for the property manager, so.  [00:20:32] Eric: Yeah, actually that's, that's why we built our own inspection tool. You know, we see everything else that's out there, but a lot of it's not connected. It's, you know, it's separate tools. So I've got a system that does this and does that. [00:20:45] So we tell our contractors, it's in our app, which I think there might be two or three other maintenance platforms, but not many that actually have an app in the app store for the vendor. So again, I challenged property managers to log into whatever system they're using as a vendor. And you'll probably see it's not the easiest thing to use or communicate with. [00:21:05] Well, we turned that upside down and. We've got an app live in the app store. Contractors can download it. So when they're doing work for us, it's super easy. They're on their phone. So we added an inspection tool and said we're going to require you to do, if it's vacant, to do a full inspection. And we just provide that as a free service, like, hey, in case, in case you or the owner missed something, we happen to notice these other 10 items that you didn't want us to fix, but here's some pictures and a report, and so again, like, just to your point, we know we're the eyes and ears a lot of time, you know, at the property, so anything we can do to capture all that data and get it back to the property manager. [00:21:43] We think so it's a win for everyone.  [00:21:45] Jason: Yeah, I love that So, I mean historically that's been a big complaint about some of the property management maintenance coordination tools out there is that the getting vendors to use it the adoption of vendors has been like real difficult and maybe it's Just your from your experience. [00:22:02] Maybe they're just not very good for the vendors through for their experience. It's just not a great experience. So user experience is a big deal when designing software. And it sounds like you guys have kind of designed this from the ground up to make sure that the vendors are going to have a good experience using it. [00:22:17] Eric: Absolutely. You know, again, we, you know, we're, we're signed on as preferred vendor across, across nine states. And so it's, you know, it's our insurance, our butts on the line if the jobs aren't getting done. So we figured out very quickly, we cannot make this difficult for this contractor in Florida that doesn't know Eric from Dripping Springs, Texas. [00:22:36] So let's make the tool super easy. And that's exactly what we did. And so we've had... oh, I would say over three years, I think maybe three or four times we've had to coach somebody through how to use our maintenance tool.  [00:22:48] Jason: Really? Sometimes vendors are old school. [00:22:49] They're not the most tech savvy. They're, they're using physical tools, you know, but yeah. And so that says a lot that it's pretty intuitive or easy for them to figure out.  [00:22:59] Eric: Yeah, that was a big focus for us right out of the gate.  [00:23:02] Jason: Got it. Okay, cool. Well, for those that are, like, hearing about this, or a little bit interested in this, is there anything else they usually have questions about that we didn't touch on, or that they should know about Walkthroo? [00:23:14] Eric: Let's see, not really. I mean, I think we covered most of it. Again, our goal is to really provide more time. I just, we see so much wasted time, you know, in the maintenance process. Obviously, we're going to carry that on through the rest of the modules and operating software, but our goal is to eliminate that time and give it back to property managers and really allow them to, like you said, I know they'd much rather growing doors and making connections and using their time more wisely. [00:23:39] So, yeah. If we can save them hours a week that's really, really our goal.  [00:23:45] Jason: Got it. Okay. Well, it sounds like you guys focus on simplicity. You focus on making these work. How can people get in touch with Walkthroo?  [00:23:55] Eric: Yeah, you can go to our website. It's www.walkthroo.com . You can also send an email over directly to me or my team. My email is eric@thewalkthroo.com and if you want to just send it to our team, it's work orders@thewalkthroo.com.  [00:24:21] Jason: Got it. So it's 'the Walkthroo' and through is T-H-R-O-O. Okay. All right. Everyone listening, go check that out. [00:24:30] Eric, appreciate you being here on the DoorGrow show and hanging out with us. And I'm looking forward. We'll have to have you come back on once you guys have added some new features and it sounds like you guys are pretty aggressive at doing that.  [00:24:44] Eric: Absolutely. Thanks, Jason. Appreciate the time. Good seeing you.  [00:24:46] Jason: Good seeing you too. [00:24:47] All right. For those of you that are looking to grow your property management business or you're struggling, check us out at doorgrow. com. We would love to help you. We are getting amazing results with our clients. And so if you want to get from 0 to 100 doors, from maybe 100 to 200 doors, or you wanted to go from 200 to 500 doors, Or from 500 doors to a thousand doors, we can help you at each of these stages and each of these sticking points to grow and scale your business rapidly and to get the right stress free ops and systems in place so that you are able to do this without making your life worse personally. [00:25:21] And so check us out at doorgrow. com. And until next time everybody to our mutual growth, bye everybody. [00:25:28] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:25:54] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

When moving from being a solopreneur to having a team, a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with hiring high-quality team members, creating accountability, and streamlining processes. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with award-winning coach and author Kon Apostolopoulos to talk all about unlocking your team's potential. You'll Learn [04:16] Hiring for Competance  [12:48] Leadership and Building a Team [29:19] Developing Team Members [49:42] Tough Love as a Business Owner Tweetables  ”They say the two most important days in your life are the day you come into this world and the day you figure out why.” “They all have their strategies, their business plans, but one thing for sure is that if they don't have the right people in place to execute those plans, they're not even worth the paper they're written on.” “If they're hiring for competence, it's probably a step up, because in most cases, people are hiring for a pulse.” “You can teach people the technical skills. You can't teach attitude. You can't teach certain behaviors. You can't teach integrity.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Kon: When we are appreciated, we always give more than what is expected of us. So when you are looking at it, build your team around that principle. Show people that you value them. Don't just say, you know what, you get a paycheck, don't you? This is why I brought you on. Do your damn job.  [00:00:16] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently then you are a DoorGrow property manager DoorGrow property managers, love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. [00:01:18] Now let's get into the show.  [00:01:21] All right. I, my guest today is coach Kon. So Kon, how do you say your last name? I want to make sure I don't mess it up.  [00:01:29] Kon: Wow. Well, first of all, thanks for having me, Jason. Last name is Apostolopoulos. It's as simple as it looks.  [00:01:37] Jason: Man, that is fun to say. Apostolopoulos.  [00:01:39] Kon: It rolls off the tongue. [00:01:40] Jason: Yeah. The closest thing that might be as fun was the Snuffleupagus.  [00:01:45] Kon: It's inspired from that.  [00:01:47] Jason: Okay. All right. We'll go, you know, all great ideas have an origin. All right. So Kon, we're going to be chatting a little bit today about the keys to engagement, resilience, high performance, unlocking team potential. [00:02:02] So before we get into that, I'd love to get a little bit of background on you. How did you get into doing coaching and you know, kind of share your origin story.  [00:02:12] Kon: Wow. Okay. So let's kind of take a look at this. First of all, I'll start with one of my favorite sayings. Because I do feel blessed. [00:02:19] It is the season for that kind of a feeling. You know, they say the two most important days in your life are the day you come into this world and the day you figure out why. And so to me, I have always gravitated towards being a coach, being a teacher, being a leader, stepping up and taking responsibility. [00:02:38] And so that's kind of shaped my life. Being the firstborn in a Greek household and the firstborn male at that. It's one of those situations where, Inevitably, you're thrust into that role, but I gravitated towards it, and I found myself, regardless of which industry I've been working in, everything from the military to cruise ships, from restaurants to call centers, from construction to coaching little kids' soccer, I've always been in a situation where I found myself in the role of coach, teacher, leader. You know, I've worked for large corporations. I've had my share of corporate where I've cut my teeth and I've learned a lot of the business secrets and the things that I needed to get. And in the last 12 years, I've hung my own single shingle and been in a situation where I've been able to help clients and transfer three decades of knowledge of managing talent, of being able to build engaged and resilient teams and helping them now achieve their goals. [00:03:34] And the way I do that is I explained to people that most of the companies that I work with have their business plans very much like the audience that we have here. They all have their strategies their business plans. But one thing for sure is that if they don't have the right people in place to execute those plans, they're not even worth the paper they're written on. And so to me, that's where I come in and sometimes that involves providing workshops to build competence. Sometimes that involves individual or group coaching to build commitment. Sometimes that's speaking at events for them to be able to get everybody on the same page. And ultimately that may involve helping them build the systems that they need so every dollar that they spend on their people is a dollar well spent.  [00:04:14] Jason: Got it. Okay. Now I think a lot of times that the challenge I see in a lot of companies is they're bringing in, it's often people are hiring just based on skill. That's the thing they're looking at is like, are they willing to do this job for this pay? Instead of looking for people that fit their values, fit the culture, have the right personality fit to actually be able to succeed in the role. [00:04:38] And so I call those things, the three fits. What have you seen related to this?  [00:04:42] Kon: When people go out and start hiring Jason, they typically do it out of need, and a lot of times they've let it go for so long that it becomes a desperation. If they're hiring for competence, it's probably a step up, because in most cases, people are hiring for a pulse. [00:04:56] They're trying to throw a body at a spot, and that's a desperate place to be in, unfortunately. Hiring process, the selection process, should be an ongoing thing. When you're looking at making sure that you have the right people on your team. That's an ongoing process to me. That's tending to your garden year round, to making sure that you have the right people in place year round. [00:05:17] The mantra that I teach my people is a three part piece, just like you were mentioning earlier. It's hire hard, train smart, manage easy. And to me that means basically being very picky about who I bring on my team. It's easy for people or it's easier for people to look at, do they have the skills? Because that's an yes or no answer most of the time, especially if you do it right. But what they don't realize is that you can teach people the technical skills. You can't teach attitude. You can't teach certain behaviors. You can't teach integrity. You're bringing somebody in your team in their thirties. [00:05:50] If you have to teach them how to be honest, that's too late in the game.  [00:05:54] Jason: Yes.  [00:05:55] Kon: So hire for the attitude, like you were talking about the things that are harder to teach, and then you can teach them smartly about the business that you want. If you have a right person in the right spot, they can do wonders. [00:06:09] Jason: Yeah, I've noticed this. I've noticed this as well. One of the things I've noticed is I call it the process myth. I see a lot of businesses, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs go through this journey of graduating from solopreneur to having a team, right? And that's usually one of the most painful transitions they go through. [00:06:25] It's because they have no clue how to do the hiring correctly. And they're hiring the way a solopreneur sort of thinks. And they're usually hiring based on what they think the business needs. Like you said, out of need, maybe they graduate to desperation. Maybe they graduate to competence, as you said, but at that stage, they usually believe the process myth. [00:06:43] I've run into this a lot where they think they just need better processes. If they just had better processes, their team would actually perform well. Like, I just need to micromanage them more. I need more KPIs. I need more metrics. And what I've noticed is, this weird dichotomy, I've noticed that in companies that have great culture and they have a great team, they have great people, but they even have shitty processes, they still perform well, even without great process documentation, but I've seen companies that have like process documentation, like crazy, and they focus on this heavily, but they don't have the right people. And they're never able to perform well. There's no amount of process documentation or micromanaging or controls that can make a mediocre team with maybe the wrong attitude or wrong culture fit or wrong values to perform well. [00:07:35] Kon: No, I agree with you there. When you look at why people try to heavily process things, it's because they don't feel confident in people's decision making and abilities. They tried to legislate everything. They tried to create a way. We used to have a saying that, you know, every time you think you idiot proof something with a process, they come up with better idiots. [00:07:55] And that's a situation where you have to be very careful. You put a good person in a bad process, the process is going to win. So you have to be very careful because when we evolve this piece and we take it to its natural conclusion, which is why do we hire good people or try to find good people? [00:08:12] Why do we try to create processes that can produce results? It's to get performance. It's to increase performance, to become more predictably good. That's ultimately what we're doing. Performance is about results. When you look at your metrics that you were talking about, you're a pro, you do this and you know exactly what you're trying to do. [00:08:31] You have a methodology, you have a way of doing things, you have a philosophy about how you go about things because you know it works and you know it works well enough for you and for others that you're comfortable going out and sharing that message with others. Well, when you talk about performance, performance happens at three different dimensions. [00:08:50] Think about it like a Venn diagram, three overlapping circles. One is organizationally. How are we set up? How are we set up? Our culture our vision, our messages, our values, all of those things that we want to set ourselves up with. And then you have the process. How do things hand off from one person to the next? [00:09:10] What does the customer journey look like? What does the experience with us look like? How do we engage with each other? And then ultimately, it's the individual level. Do we have the right people on the right seat on the bus going in the right direction? Do they have the skills, knowledge, ability, attitudes that we're looking for to get things done? [00:09:29] So when people say, we're struggling to improve our performance, they automatically Only look at one, maybe two of those areas, not realizing that you need all three of those to hit in order to be at optimal level, when you've reached your peak in your performance, all three of those things are in place. [00:09:47] You've organized the team. Well, you've got your systems in place and you've hired the right people.  [00:09:52] Jason: Yeah, I love this. You know, they say all truth gravitates towards itself, you know, so to speak. And so I actually draw a Venn diagram for clients and they teach them a framework called the three fits and your organization, I would just call culture, this is, do they share your values? Is there alignment there? Because otherwise you'll never be able to trust them. So you want one offload to them and then you always want to micromanage them. And then for process, I usually call that a skill fit. And the question there is, do they have the intellectual capacity to be able to develop the skill or do they already possess it? And that's the one that maybe the needle can be moved on right like you had mentioned they could maybe be trained, but some people are untrainable. They just don't have the intellectual capacity for that particular role. They just won't get there. [00:10:38] You can train and you'll just demoralize yourself, right? And then as then when you mentioned kind of people this is where I look at the personality fit. Are they the right personality for the role? Not everybody can be great or enjoy doing cold calling. Not everybody could be great or enjoy doing accounting, right? [00:10:57] And that means that they would love doing the role if they're the right personality fit, which means you don't have to motivate them. You don't have to try and push them to do it. And they, if they don't have that, they'll just never be great. And so I love this. Like it's always validating to see alignment when somebody's kind of graduated to this knowledge set on their own and see that, Hey, we both kind of arrived at a similar conclusion. [00:11:22] Kon: So, well, the truth is pretty universal and that's how we get there. We each discovered in our own way and application, but even with my company is called Fresh Biz Solutions and the the origin of the name and the philosophy behind that name is that I've worked, as I mentioned, in very diverse industries across continents, across countries, across boundaries. [00:11:45] And what I found is people are people. The needs are fairly universal. And so something, a process, an idea, a solution that works well in one industry, when you take it, look at it, dust it off, repurpose it, repackage it, it can work just as well in another industry. Why? Because you're dealing with people. [00:12:05] You're dealing with principles that are universal. And so, there is no need to reinvent the wheel. There is a need for us to find what works and continue to apply it. In different situations.  [00:12:17] Jason: Absolutely. And you know, my personal sort of mission statement is to inspire others to love true principles. I love figuring out what works and sharing it with other people. [00:12:25] That's just fun for me. I would do that for free for fun. And yeah, so, so I get that. And yeah, there's, you know, a whole business book might be just written about one principle, you know, and there's that one nugget that you can pull out of it. But yeah if, you know, as I'm always seeking for those principles and those ideas, I'm then able to share and benefit others and it can be applied to a variety of different situations. [00:12:48] Yeah. Love that. So how do people go about doing this? It's like, usually entrepreneurs are very, you know, focused on just hiring based on as you said, need, desperation, competence. How do you graduate them through this? [00:13:03] Kon: So when we look at the process, I mean, we, when solopreneurs graduate, like you said, when you have, when you've been working on your own for a long time and you decide to bring on team members, one of the mistakes that we make is that we think that everybody is motivated the same way we are. Everybody sees the same vision that we do. [00:13:20] And that's just not the case. Yeah. We don't have that luxury. There's not enough people there that automatically will instinctively know what you're working on and really align themselves. Most of the time you have to do some connection of the dots for them. You have to explain to them why you're doing what you're doing and how they fit into this. [00:13:39] This is part of my engagement model that I talk about in my new book, The Engagement Blueprint. And the principles here are universal, whether it's one person or 1000 on your team. You can look at it and say the same thing. The way to understand this is that when you are leading a team, you're bringing people onto your team. [00:13:57] You're developing them. You're aligning them. What are you trying to do? You're trying to amplify the reach that you have as an individual. You're trying to get more done through your team, but through your team is the key because you need the voluntary contribution of these people. They need to want to do this. [00:14:13] Otherwise, it's a slog. It's a heavy lift to constantly micromanage people That's where the heavy processing comes in. You're chasing them around and the property trying to figure out where are they on where they supposed to? Be are they on their computer? Are they? responding to the needs? [00:14:29] How are they dealing with my clients? You're constantly living on edge and you're in fear and uncertainty all the time. My methodology is all about taking the uncertainty out of that and making sure that when you invest in your people, you know you're going to get a return on that investment. You know that basically they are an extension of you. [00:14:49] Now, the way to go about it is to understand that there are four key drivers of engagement for people. I mean, I've done my homework, I've spent almost two years researching the topic, talked to some pretty smart people across the globe, and pulled together 30 years of experience looking at this. And the four drivers start, first and foremost, with the need that we all have to feel valued. [00:15:10] When we are appreciated, we always give more than what is expected of us. So when you are looking at it, build your team around that principle. Show people that you value them. Don't just say, you know what, you get a paycheck, don't you? This is why I brought you on. Do your damn job. It's easy to say that. [00:15:28] Jason: Yeah, there's a lot of bosses that think because they grew up sort of in that culture and they, it's kind of the dinosaur boss that says, "well, I pay you, so just do your work," like it's very transactional.  [00:15:40] Kon: Correct. And when it's transactional, you lose so much because people will only do up to a certain point and then you have to keep telling them what is part of that transaction. [00:15:49] So. When people are appreciated though, they will continue to find ways to support and help you and do more. When you realize that it's all about that discretionary effort, engagement is about discretionary effort, giving that little bit extra because you feel first and foremost valued. And the way you do that, I mean, here are some ideas that Our audience can go out and do right now. [00:16:13] First and foremost, think about how you can create an environment that is safe for your people. Physically, mentally, emotionally, psychologically. I mean, if you're in a situation where you have people out there physically doing work, they're climbing up to clear gutters to do certain things, make sure the environment is safe. [00:16:32] Set a protocol so people can feel safe. Emotionally, if you're in a meeting, make sure that people feel comfortable telling you the ugly truth sometimes, the information that you need to make decisions. If people feel like there'll be chastised or reprimanded for telling you the truth, those stops sharing that information with you, and you will lose opportunities there. [00:16:52] Make sure that people feel that you appreciate them or that they can bring their whole self to work because if they can bring their whole self to work, they'll bring their best self to work. And then ultimately, even if you only have five minutes a week to spend with each one of your people, make sure that those five minutes, you're present, give them your attention. [00:17:13] I mean, these are simple ways that when you ask somebody, "how are you doing?" You pause enough to get the answer to that. That tells people you value them and then say, thank you. You know what? I really appreciate the fact that you treat this property like it's your own, that you take care of our guests, that you take care of our clients, that you went above and beyond. [00:17:34] You'll get more of what you're looking for when you do that. So that's one key driver things that people can go out and do right now simple things  [00:17:42] Jason: Yeah, I think yeah that first item you mentioned feeling valued or feeling appreciated It's interesting because what i've noticed is on a lot of DISC assessments, there's the values index and most entrepreneurs I think focus on things being transactional and focus on trying to motivate people through money because they mistakenly assume that everybody likes money. [00:18:01] And the economic score and a values index for most people is low except for entrepreneurs and salespeople typically. And if the economic score is low, that means they're more recognition motivated. So this is very much in alignment with the appreciation aspect, right? A lot of entrepreneurs are trying to throw money at people when they could save that money and just appreciate them and recognize them. [00:18:25] And they would get far more output. [00:18:27] Kon: But even with entrepreneurs and salespeople, Jason, I mean, look at us from this perspective: we all love being appreciated, but even with the money piece, if I'm driven towards money, it's rarely about the dollar bill itself. It's about what that represents for me. [00:18:41] And for entrepreneurs, sometimes it's a recognition of their arrival, their accomplishment. For some people, it's a representation of financial security that gives them the freedom, the life that they want. That's what you see. When you see all of these people advertising these solutions that produce money for people, what are they putting out there? [00:19:01] The big houses. The freedom, the lifestyle, the cars, all of that stuff. That's what that a big part of what that represents. It's never just about the money, but it's just as much for your entry level laborer in your property that's going around cleaning out things. For them, that money means security. [00:19:20] That means that I am a paycheck away from living on the street. And that's what you need to understand. What is driving? I mean, you mentioned the word motivating earlier, and it's important for our audience to understand that you cannot motivate another person. That is a falsehood. Motivation is an intrinsic process. [00:19:39] Psychologically, you cannot do that to somebody else. All you can do is create the right environment where people will feel self motivated.  [00:19:49] Jason: Yeah.  [00:19:50] Kon: This is the proverbial. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make a drink unless it's thirsty.  [00:19:55] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make a drink. [00:20:00] But you can salt its oats, correct? Another phrase that I love is "whenever we fail to inspire, we always control." [00:20:08] Kon: Correct. And that's the part where you want to drive that you want to create the environment for anybody that's spent any time out there trying to go fishing. You realize that not every fish likes the same bait. [00:20:23] So you have to put the right bait out there to attract and inspire that fish to bite. And it's the same with your people. The job of a leader is to really set the course, give them a plan, give them the reason why, and the how becomes "this is how I want to motivate you." I want you to achieve your goals by helping me achieve our goals. [00:20:44] That's the second driver, connection. We are tribal creatures, Jason. Part of the reason why we all wear uniforms, for example, at a job, or the same t shirts, is because we want to belong to the same tribe. That builds bonds, camaraderie, connection to people. I mean, think about the last time you met somebody in a crowd that's from the same hometown, went to the same university, supports the same sports team. [00:21:08] I mean, you go to a stadium, there's 50, 000 people wearing the same jersey as you, and you feel connected to them.  [00:21:13] Jason: Yeah.  [00:21:13] Kon: And so people crave that.  [00:21:15] Jason: I just went to one of those Texas Football games that at the university here and yeah, it's like, it's crazy.  [00:21:22] Kon: Correct. So people want to feel part of a team. [00:21:26] And so in order to do that, use your team building skills. Make sure that people understand what it is that you're going after. What game are you playing? Are you playing football? Are you playing tennis? What are you playing? These are different games. Make sure that people understand what's the game, what's the values, how are we going to get there? [00:21:42] And then create that bond and respect between you and each team member while you're building the bonds between the team members themselves. And give people a path so they can see how they can achieve their aspirations by working with you and the team. We talked about that. If my goal is to make sure that I secure a paycheck because I'm financially insecure to pay my bills, or you know what, I have to support my kids, show me how to do that. [00:22:07] Show me how to get there. If my goal is to become the best salesperson in the region, show me how to do that. Because that way, when you align their goals and yours you can unleash huge energy and potential because people will be striving because it's a win win. They don't have to do your goals instead of theirs. [00:22:25] They don't have to sacrifice one for the other. That alignment really gives them permission to give their best.  [00:22:32] Jason: Yeah, we're looking at the proverbial win, like if there isn't a win, it's win lose and either we're going to lose or they're going to lose. So correct. So this kind of speaks to their needing to be for connection. [00:22:42] There needs to be alignment in you know, mission.  [00:22:45] Kon: Correct. And that's what you hire for. Back to your original question. If you find people that are aligned because this is what they want to do and you can show them how they can fulfill their personal mission by working with the team to achieve its mission. [00:22:59] That's where the win, that's where the secret sauce is. That alignment truly alleviates the need to micromanage because when they are confronted with a choice, they will make the right choice because their why is intact. They understand why they're doing something. It's easier for them to take that personal accountability for themselves and for the team. [00:23:19] Jason: A lot of business owners don't even know their why, which is why they're running into these sort of mistakes.  [00:23:24] Kon: Correct. Again, because they are operating at a very tactical transactional level. They're not elevating to their higher self. I mean when you look at it, the people that achieve the greatest things are the ones that have a purpose behind them They are driven by that when you have purpose driven organizations They will always outperform the others the same way that engaged organizations when they harness that power from their team will always outperform their competitors by a lot i'm talking about 20 percent more in operating revenues. [00:23:56] I'm talking three times the profitability. I'm talking almost nine out of 10 people say "I have no reason to go anywhere else." So you're keeping your best and brightest and probably attracting your competitors' best and brightest.  [00:24:09] Jason: Absolutely. I've seen a three times the output from a team if they align with the culture the personality and the values and you know, all that easily three times the output. And that's the biggest, one of the biggest profit levers in a business because the biggest expense in a business is the people and those all connected with people.  [00:24:29] Kon: Correct. And when you start looking at that at that line item in your P and L. [00:24:33] As truly an investment, you're going to approach it very differently because you're going to be smart about where you put the money. I mean, it's the same way you wouldn't find a temporary solution to fix something in your buildings. You want to find a solution that makes sense, the best return on that investment. [00:24:48] And that's where, for example, you come in and you look at the productivity piece, which is the third driver. People want to know that they contribute, that they make a difference, Jason. I mean, the example that I give in my coaching and my training sessions on this topic is If I was to give you a team photo from a recent event that you were together with a group of people, what's the first thing that most of us would do, you think? [00:25:12] Jason: If you were to give a team photo,  [00:25:14] Kon: if I was to give you a team photo that you were in of a recent event, you were there with your team. Let's say you're celebrating something and there's 15 of you on this, in this picture. What's the, one of the first things that you would do? I just handed you that picture. [00:25:27] Jason: I would look to see if everyone's happy.  [00:25:31] Kon: Or even where you are, right? People want to know where they fit into this picture.  [00:25:34] Jason: Oh yeah. If it's a new photo, I'd be like, I'd look at myself first.  [00:25:37] Kon: Yeah. Right. Yeah. So most of us will take a look at that picture and say, Hey, where am I in this picture? And then look around and say, Oh, I can see Steve smiling. [00:25:44] I can see Mary over there. She looked like she was having a good time. All the men. Now we see where we fit into this bigger picture. It's the same thing for entrepreneurs. Show your people where they fit in. Show them that even the most menial task. Joe, thank you for cleaning up that mess over there. You know what, that represents the standard that we have here at the property. [00:26:04] When you did that, that made a big difference. Somebody passing by will look at us and know that we care about this property. They will care about it. That's contagious. And you know what, Billy last week tripped on a mess like that and now he's twisted his ankle and now he's out for three months and now you have to do his job as well. [00:26:21] So thank you for taking care of that. So nobody else got hurt. That tells people That even the most menial task has a purpose they can connect the dots when people feel like they can contribute in meaningful ways, they can be productive your systems your processes allow them to be productive back to our starting point. They will flourish. They want to make a difference. [00:26:43] You're going to spend time at work. Anyway, we spent what a third of our day typically at work at least unless you're an entrepreneur and then you're probably spending a lot more But the thing is are you making a difference? How are you impacting others when you can do that, that fuels you that makes a difference When I see the light bulb go on in my clients and the people that I coach the people that I teach, that is fuel to me. That fuels my passion about what I do. [00:27:10] And so knowing that I make a difference, knowing that people come back to me and say, you know what, I applied your technique, your system, what you recommended, what we discovered together, and it made a difference. That is power. That is a driver. And people want to know that they contribute. You see it in volunteers, Jason, all the time. [00:27:29] They're not doing it for the money. They're going out there because they believe in what they're doing, that what they're doing makes a difference. Get that volunteer spirit on your team. Get them excited about what they're doing, knowing that they can make a difference. That's power.  [00:27:43] Jason: Yeah. It's amazing. You look at churches as a business, they have a lot of people just volunteering. You look at open source software initiatives. They have a lot of people that are working their day job, but their passion hobby is to contribute to this open source thing for free. You know? Exactly.  [00:28:00] Kon: I spent recently 25 hours a week or more coaching kids soccer. [00:28:06] I didn't do it for the money. I did it because I wanted to see that passion. To me, I believed in what I was doing and I was making a difference. I teach girls, especially I coach girls. Why? Because I believe that when we can teach young women how to advocate for themselves, tap into their leadership abilities from a young age, and they know that they can perform well as individuals, as team members, as team leaders, they become better leaders tomorrow, and we need more of those leaders tomorrow. I'm working with the early generations now, so in the future I don't have to go in and try to change the mind of 40 year old executives  [00:28:45] Jason: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when they're young and they won't depart from it. Right.  [00:28:51] Kon: Teach them those foundational pieces. [00:28:53] They become better. I mean, I have kids, I've won and lost games and tournaments and championships, but you know what the biggest reward for me is? When I have a kid coming back to me years later and say, coach, thank you. I still love the game because of you. And these are the things that I've accomplished because of the life skills that I learned playing on your team. [00:29:12] Yeah. That stuff that they pick up from you, I'm sure applies to everything.  [00:29:18] Correct. And then finally, the last driver is people need to feel supported to learn and grow. Speaking of coaching and developing, I liken this Jason to the example of water. Water is a life source, right? Right. But a swamp is water, so is a river. [00:29:34] The difference between the two is the flow, is the is the movement. Nobody wants to be caught up in a swamp in their careers, in their jobs. Everybody wants a flowing river, and they want to know that there's a path, there's a career path for them, there's a way for them to grow. Even if, like you said, they might be limited by their own abilities to some extent, or their own desires, to some extent, show them how they can be the best in the current role that they're in. [00:30:01] Maybe they're not going to be promoted to the next general manager managing a hundred units, but maybe there's somebody who can teach and mentor a young person coming in to your business, and they can offer value through that. Maybe that becomes part of what they do. So there is room for everybody to continue to learn and grow. [00:30:18] Give them that opportunity. This is the train smart, the growth part where everybody has a sense of, I'm showing up to work and I'm a little bit better than I was yesterday, or that there's a clear career path because if they can't find the path in your business, they're going to try to find it somewhere else. [00:30:36] Jason: Sure. Yeah. Nobody wants to feel stuck or stagnant. And, you know, I think that's what our soul craves. Our soul craves growth. I think that I think a lot of people mistakenly, I think the point of, you know, Life of marriage of everything that people recommend that maybe you do is to be happy. I think the point I think happiness is a more mediocre goal than growth. [00:30:59] I think the point is growth. That doesn't always mean you're going to be happy, right? And I love your water analogy. I've heard a similar analogy before where it's like, which would you rather drink? The From the crazy wild raging river or the stagnant puddle in front of your house Right. And it's that sort of turbulence and challenge that purifies the water and that makes it a much safer environment to drink from. [00:31:26] Kon: Absolutely. And I mean, my, my first book was all about managing crisis and about managing sudden change. And even in that you realize that crisis presents opportunities on the flip side of it. Crisis is not all bad. Crisis means that, you know what? Hey, things are being shaken up big time unexpectedly, but who wouldn't want to be? I mean you think about crises over time I mean in 2008 prior to 2008 we didn't have you know Airbnb and uber eats or ubers in general you didn't have any of that stuff I mean, after the crisis of 2008, people got creative and they found new ways of dealing things, you know, sharing out rooms in their house, renting things out, short term rentals, looking at opportunities to replace cabs, using their cars smartly. [00:32:12] You look at the recent pandemic crisis. I mean, wouldn't you have liked to have stocks in some of these virtual meeting rooms, Zoom and others? Wouldn't that be great to have that beforehand because that was an opportunity all of a sudden everybody's gone virtual. So this is important for us to understand. [00:32:27] Growth comes sometimes through turbulence, through upheaval, you know, things change either as an evolution progressively, slowly, or as a revolution.  [00:32:38] Jason: Yeah. Crisis equals opportunity. Correct. If that's your mindset, otherwise it equals something horrible.  [00:32:45] Kon: I mean, there's a lot of entrepreneurs that aspire to the mantra, especially when they're in the DISC profile. [00:32:50] When you say about the D's, the dominant ones, you look at it and you say, if it ain't broke, break it. That's the mantra. Right.  [00:32:58] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, cool. So we've got four items feel valued, appreciated. Number one, these are the four key drivers, the drivers of revenue, performance, everything else. [00:33:09] Kon: Engagement and engagement leads to the performance. Right.  [00:33:12] Jason: Okay. So we've got number one, feeling value. Number two, connection. Maybe we should stick all of our team members in the same t shirts. I don't know. And, you know, making them feel like a team. Make it feel like a soccer team. Maybe I don't know number three productivity, meaning they feel like they're contributing to something that contribution I think is something that entrepreneurs deeply crave and they want to feel like they have impact And then number four supported to learn and grow,  [00:33:40] correct.  [00:33:40] Kon: Yeah. For the four drivers. I mean, this is basically the 80 20 rule. When you can do those four things, that'll get you the majority of the way there to really create an engaged team and engaged workforce with you as a leader. I mean, think about it this way. Leaders contribute about 70 percent of the variance between an average team And a high performing team. [00:34:03] 70 percent of that difference comes from your leadership style. If you apply these simple four principles, these simple four drivers to your business, and you start engaging your people, you can transform your workplace to win in the marketplace. You're igniting the fire in your people without burning them out. [00:34:22] That's essential.  [00:34:24] Jason: And if you have bad team members, but you have these four things, they're just not going to fit. They're not going to want to stick around. I mean, if everybody's feeling valued, there's connection that, you know, there's focus on making a difference and people are supported, learn and grow. [00:34:37] It's going to be obvious. Like there's going to be these B players that no matter how appreciated they are, they're just, or there's nothing to appreciate or that, you know, they don't want to be a team player. They don't care about the connection with other people. They aren't productive. They don't feel, they don't care if they're making a difference. [00:34:53] They just wanted like, kind of basically they want to complain about you, their boss and live for the weekend. Correct. And they are, and they don't care about growth. They're like, they're just showing up that it's going to be very obvious that they're not a culture fit.  [00:35:06] Kon: And so that's where you look at it. [00:35:08] And now bringing a full circle back to your original piece of staffing. Now, you know, where your holes are now, you know, where the gaps are, and now, you know, what you're looking for. And then you can enlist the help of the rest of your team to bring them on board, to be part of this group, to really embrace your culture. [00:35:24] It's a lot easier once you get this in motion to be able to have this operate because it's a self sustaining organism. It's a community. I mean, one of the biggest things that I tell people in the last closing part of the book is I let them know that people think the grass is greener on the other side. [00:35:44] It's not. The grass is greener where you water it. Sure. So you need to take care of your patch of grass. You need to make sure that you apply these principles, and then that rest will take care of itself. The grass that's flourishing will crowd out the weeds. It'll take care of all of those different things. [00:36:03] Your people, through their own empowerment, they will see your business as their own, and they will start monitoring and managing this process with you. And for you, because that's the power of true engagement. Now you've got people that feel that personal accountability, that ownership, because they feel empowered. [00:36:20] Jason: Yeah. If the grass isn't green on your side of the fence and you're the business owner, the problem is you, this is a leadership factor. I had one of my mentors, he used to say to me, he said, he'd say, Jason, If you don't yet have the business of your dreams, it's because you're not yet the person that can run it yet. [00:36:39] And you know, that's good medicine, but a bitter pill to accept, you know, in moments for a lot of people. But yeah, I think Yeah, I think it's greener where you water it. And if you, if I love these four principles, if you can align your team around this, that creates a really good culture. [00:36:56] The environment then is safe. People are feeling appreciated. And then you're moving people eventually out of just this transactional leadership into moving them towards a transformational leadership that turns them into leaders.  [00:37:11] Kon: Correct. Correct. Because you want leaders at all levels. I mean, great leaders don't create followers. They create more leaders. So you want to be able to empower people and set them in the right direction. You know, create those leaders at all levels of the organization and that way they all feel empowered to take ownership of, they see something that needs to be fixed. They fix it. They need somebody who's struggling. They're going to reach out. They need to communicate information. They will communicate that information because they feel empowered and they feel like leaders. And that's what leaders do. If you just have followers, if you just have people out there that are waiting for you to tell them what to do. [00:37:49] That's a lot of work.  [00:37:50] Jason: Yeah. I think that's the challenge is when the way a solopreneur thinks, you know, they start hiring and they're not hiring usually based on what they need as a business or they're hiring based on what the business needs. And so eventually they have an entire team. Yeah. And their first initial team, usually I've noticed, is the wrong team. [00:38:11] They built a team around the wrong puzzle piece. They're showing up involved in wearing hats and doing things they don't really enjoy doing, and they built an entire team around that. And so by default, And the way I get them to realize this, I say, look, if you've got, if you're, you have an entire team and you are still wearing all the hats you don't enjoy wearing or involved in all the things you don't enjoy doing, then by default, you have to have the wrong team. [00:38:38] Kon: I would agree with that. Again, your job is not to sit here and do everybody else's job. The people that you bring onto your team should be willing to do their job and then start reaching at the next level to start taking on more because you've empowered them and you want them to grow. That's the big part of this. [00:38:54] It's a difference between leading a team and doing the work. Just like in even in an organization, but especially when you're an entrepreneur, the first thing that you're going to need to let go of when you start creating a team is the thing that probably got you there. All of the things that you did well, if you're the top performer on your team, you got a problem. [00:39:14] That's a big problem. You need to now start thinking of it as, I need to create a team of high performers as opposed to me being a high performer. And that's a very different thing for salespeople, for managers, for people that have done well in the past. They've done well and they've probably reached this level. [00:39:30] Either they got promoted to a job to the next level, or they started their own business with that mindset, but they have to stop competing with their people. They have to start teaching all of the good things that they've learned that made them successful. So they can now build the team around them. [00:39:47] There's a reason why from the famous Bulls team of the nineties. Why Michael Jordan, the best player potentially in history, is not a coach, as opposed to Steve Kerr, who was on his team and probably was a big player on the Bulls team, but an important one. Steve Kerr understood what it took to become successful. [00:40:08] He watched some of the best. He played with some of the best. He learned how to teach that. Michael worked hard, tirelessly, but at the same time. Steve had so many natural talents, things that came so naturally to him that those things were very difficult, if not impossible for him to teach. So, whereas Steve, with his limitations physically and his talent, understood how to take good players and make them great. [00:40:35] Jason: You know, I love this example. Michael Jordan, though, before he had the right system, was just a showboat. Before he had Phil Jackson, a good coach, before he had Scottie Pippen and the team that he had. That Phil Jackson built around Michael Jordan's abilities. He wasn't winning championships.  [00:40:54] Kon: Correct.  [00:40:55] Jason: It was just a showboat. [00:40:56] And this is, you know, a good analogy when we can take really good people and put them into the right, we create the right environment, the right system. We give them the right system. Then they become. Become rock stars.  [00:41:08] Kon: Correct. And they shine in that. And you see that sometimes like you call them a system quarterback because they shine in that system. [00:41:15] And the thing is at the end of the day, what are you building? You're not building a place to showcase individuals per se. This is not even about the owner or the entrepreneur to some extent. That's not the vanity piece. You want a successful business. You want to be able to build that around people that can get things done for your clients so you can have success however you define success, whether it's the revenues, the profits, the customer satisfaction. [00:41:38] I mean, those are the three key drivers that all businesses are founded on. And then you look at that and you say, okay, It's not about me. And we've got big companies that went to the toilet because their CEOs thought it was all about them. And that's part of the problem. Part of the challenge, Jason, you look at it and say, okay, when did you start building a team? [00:41:56] It's about the team. It's about how are you performing as an organization? It doesn't matter how many followers I have on social media or how many likes I get on my posts, if my business is in the toilet.  [00:42:08] Jason: Yeah. I think one of the challenges I see is that. In the beginning of the journey for entrepreneurs, is there a solopreneur, there's a lot of ego, and there's a lot of self belief they need in order to get started because there's a lot of difficulty, a lot of friction, the challenges that creates a hindrance in the future. [00:42:24] Because one of the initial things I noticed that a lot of solopreneurs believe when they start hiring is what I call the clone myth. They think I just need to clone myself. I need to go find somebody like me cause I'm so special and so adaptable and so important. I need to go find somebody like myself. [00:42:39] And then they wonder why this person maybe steals their clients and eventually starts their own business. Cause you know, they're, that if somebody's like, yeah, instead of finding people that are better than them, and this is kind of the next level, they don't think that people can be better than them. [00:42:54] And my goal is to hire people that are way better at me on all the things that I don't enjoy doing. That's not difficult to do if I don't enjoy doing it I'm, definitely not going to be the best at it and I can definitely find people that are better at it And then when we hire people and then we treat them transactionally, it's like here's a task you return a report and do it, our team members then don't feel safe as you talked about to make decisions. The safest thing is to abdicate all the thinking decision making to me because then they're not responsible for the outcome. [00:43:26] And so this, there's kind of this graduation of having to learn to let go of going from a transactional leadership system to a strategic or sort of planning system where they have outcomes and goals and we'll do whatever's required in order to achieve it by a deadline instead of just being told what to do because you're the smartest person in the room, so to speak. [00:43:47] Kon: Yeah, I mean a couple of things. Let's unpack that for a second if I may. First of all, I aspire to the idea that like you, you have masterminds, you have groups that you coach, you work with people in a group setting as well as one on one. If I find myself being the smartest person in a mastermind in a group, that's the wrong group for me to be in. [00:44:04] Jason: Yeah. Right. So that's the first thing of being in the group. That's one of the best benefits of being in a mastermind is being able to be around other people that excel in different areas, you know, over what you do.  [00:44:18] Kon: Yeah. Correct. So that's number one. Number two, when you are constantly just telling your people what to do and you're asking them to delegate or you're taking ownership of all the thinking you are teaching learned helplessness. [00:44:31] You see it in parents of teenage kids. When you do all of the thinking for them and you just say, "fine, I'll just do it" or "clean up your room. You haven't cleaned it up to my expectations." Well, guess what? Why don't you explain the expectations and show them how to do it?  [00:44:47] You cannot do that. There's a time and a place. [00:44:49] To be very directive with people when they're first learning a task, you want to basically be very highly directive with them. You want to show them step by step how to do that. And as they become more confident and capable, then you start letting go. It's like you take off the training wheels. When you're teaching a kid how to ride a bike, you're not all of a sudden going to stick them on this racing bike and just push them down the hill. [00:45:11] You want to progressively give them a chance to learn and grow from that. That's how you do with your people. Don't expect them all of a sudden to have mastered that. They're not going to be where you are. Show them progressively how to master each step. That takes time, but that's the job of a leader. [00:45:25] Most people look at why "I don't have time to do that." Well, what are you doing? Where are you spending your time? Because to me as a leader, that is your time. You brought these people on, you're paying them a salary.  [00:45:36] Jason: How do people create this learned helplessness? Because people are doing it and they're kind of blind to it. [00:45:42] I would imagine.  [00:45:43] Kon: Correct. Because they keep saying, well, I don't have time to stop and teach you this. Just give it to me. And when you add all of these things onto your plate, time after time, 30 minutes for this, two hours for that four hours for this one day for this, all of a sudden your plate is overflowing and you've taught everybody around you to sit around and wait for you to do it. [00:46:03] Yeah. Because yes, it might take you longer in the moment to teach somebody how to do that task, but that is compounding interest because the next time they'll do it more and more, they'll eventually get good at it. Perhaps even better than you at something, but the fact of the matter is that you are taking off that time over the course of time off your plate. [00:46:26] That's freeing you up to do the other things that you need to be doing. You cannot afford to try to be, again, the best player on your team. If you are, that's a problem. Why did you hire these people?  [00:46:38] Jason: Yeah, it's like we need to trust them with outcomes and give them outcomes to achieve, goals to achieve, instead of just telling them what to do all the  [00:46:47] Kon: time and giving them that. [00:46:47] Correct. That's the paradox. Most people want to measure outputs as opposed to outcomes. Yes, outputs have a place. How many hours did you spend on this? How many calls did you make? How many widgets did you produce? Yes, I get that part, but overall measure people's success based on outcomes, because maybe you care about effort, but most of us care about results in this business. [00:47:12] Jason: You know, this is one of the things when we coach clients on the operational side of things that we've noticed is that, and we have this formula for the ultimate job descriptions we call R docs, and one of the key sections that are usually missing from job descriptions is results. [00:47:27] This is, you know, they'll have the role of the responsibilities, but there's no methodology in this for prioritization, right? And we want to pay as business owners, we want to pay for outcomes. That's really what we want. We're desiring outcomes. We're desiring results. And so I think just clarity on helping our team members understand Why they're doing certain things and understanding why it matters and then understanding what are the outcomes or the results that we want? We get far better results, you know, not so surprisingly. [00:47:56] So, yeah, so be around others that exceed expectations, love the idea of learned helplessness.  [00:48:04] Kon: Yeah. I mean, we condition our people to do certain things a certain way. I mean, we teach them how to do it and from our behaviors, the things we tolerate, the things we accept, the things that we focus on. All of that is sending clear messages to our team about what matters. [00:48:19] We, whether we realize it or not, we're constantly training them and educating them based on the way that we behave. They're going to respond to that. That's what people do. That's what happens in a system. They're going to look at the leader and say, Oh, What kind of mood is he or she in today? I mean, where's he going with this? [00:48:35] And the more unpredictable you are from that, the more people are not feeling safe in this. And again, that comes back to when they know that they can bring you issues and you're not going to fly off the handle when they know that you know what, Hey, you're going to sit there and listen to them. You're going to appreciate what they're saying. [00:48:51] Even if you don't like the message and thank them for the courage to share that with you, you know, good news, bad news doesn't get better with time. And so you want to know these things ahead of time, you want to find ways and then teach them how to solve problems so they can come to you with potential solutions. [00:49:07] Hey boss, this is what I'm thinking. This is what happened. These are the options that I'm thinking. Which way do you think we should go? Let's talk about that. Why do you think we should go this way? Why do you think we should go that way? Again, teach your people, treat them a certain way. I treated my kids, even my entry level kids, even my recreational teams. [00:49:25] I've won championships. Why? Because I treated them as champions before they even won a damn thing. Because I held them to that standard. Treat your team like champions and they will perform that way. Even if they're not the most talented. That's the thing you condition them to do. You create that culture, Jason. [00:49:42] Jason: You know, a lot of things you're touching on just now really speak to the point of empathy and just being empathetic and you know, caring about people and caring about their situation, caring about what they want and figuring out their motives and it seems like, you know, the highest performing teams are not the teams that have the most KPIs or the most metrics. [00:50:02] It's, there's been studies that say it's that there's the most empathy involved. So it's difficult, I think, for business owners to be empathetic though, sometimes.  [00:50:12] Kon: Well, what is empathy? Empathy? We talk about empathy as an emotional intelligence skill. We talk about empathy as our ability to be aware and understand where somebody else is coming from, where they're going, how they're approaching things, how they're processing things. [00:50:26] It's a it's a way to understand and acknowledge others' behaviors, feelings, et cetera. That's a capacity that we have as leaders, as emotionally intelligent leaders to be able to do. That's key. But to me, empathy unto itself in a business environment, especially or a high performance environment is only half of the equation. [00:50:46] Because to me, empathy needs to be paired up with tough love. I want to understand where you're coming from, but I also want to make sure that we set clear expectations through my understanding of what you can produce and what you're willing to produce. I can set clear expectations and boundaries, so we're both safe from that. [00:51:05] I look at back when I was, for example, working with people during The COVID days when we were all stuck and all of a sudden we're all doing virtual teams, or even now in a hybrid environment where we're operating that. That's one of the biggest challenges a lot of leaders have because they don't know how to manage teams when they're not in front of them. [00:51:21] If I can't see the whites of your eyes, how am I going to know you're working? I have that with a lot of my clients. They struggle with that.  [00:51:28] And to me, it's all about the leadership paradox. And one of the paradox elements that I teach is this empathy and tough love. I need to be empathetic with the fact that somebody is working in a very different situation. [00:51:42] Not everybody has a home office like I do, or you do. People sometimes have to work at their kitchen tables. They've got kids, school aged kids that they're trying to be a business person. They're trying to be a teacher at home. They're trying to be a short order cook. They're trying to take care of an aging parent in the background. [00:51:59] And guess what? They may have to pick things up at 10 o'clock at night after they put the kids to bed to try to cram the rest of the work that they didn't get finished during the day To me it's important as an empathetic leader to understand their situation and their plight, but on the other hand I need to protect them through tough love and say look, let's focus on the things that you can do the most important elements. Here are the priorities. If you get nothing else done, I want you to do one two three things this week. When you do them is up to you. I'm understanding your situation, but these are the three things that we need to agree to get done. That now allows me to pair empathy with tough love and that paradox creates a powerful synthesis that now I am leading from an effective way. [00:52:42] Jason: Yeah, I love the idea of tough love because you know tough love is two two words here, right tough and love and if we're tough, if we're just like shoving leadership at them without empathy, then it's cruel, right? They're going to perceive it as cruel. And if we showcase love and empathy, but we don't showcase any leadership, or any toughness or direction for them, then we're almost keeping them in their mediocrity. [00:53:09] Kon: Because with the tough love piece, again, you're setting those firmer boundaries, the expectations, the clear expectations, but you're doing it from a place of caring for them, caring for the team and caring for everything that you're trying to accomplish. That's the part of it. It needs to be that. [00:53:25] And sometimes as a leader, you're going to have to make those difficult decisions or have those difficult conversations with people and see what you can do. You're trying to manage people from where you think they should be. Try managing them from where they truly are. I've had very talented young people that are coming up and I see them as rock stars and the world is their oyster. [00:53:45] But guess what? Something changes in their lives. The priority, a health issue, an ailing parent, a new kid in the family, their priorities change just because I want to promote them and give them more responsibility, they may not be in a position to accept that responsibility. And it's important for us to really understand that because if I burn that person out or force them to make a choice, I put them in a big difficult situation and then I will lose that person. [00:54:11] Again, make sure that you understand how to harness that power and work with people.  [00:54:17] Jason: We need to know our people and we need to care about them. Well, Kon, this has been really enjoyable. I love your ideas. I love your frameworks that you shared with us today. [00:54:25] You had mentioned your business is Fresh Biz Solutions and you have a book, The Engagement Blueprint. Maybe in closing, you could just tell us like, what are they going to find? What was this book and how can they get in touch with you and any closing words?  [00:54:40] Kon: Thank you. I appreciate that. Well, the book is basically A distillation of 30 years of talent management and team building experience. [00:54:49] And in that book, I've spent a couple of years researching what is it that truly drives this level of engagement from people? How can we harness that? How can we build the kind of workplace that we all want to go to, that we all want to be part of? A place where we can raise the level of commitment and performance with our team members and really get the best out of them. [00:55:10] It includes some of my key frameworks, the things that we talked about. Earlier today, it includes my performance framework and the four elements of what I do for my clients. Building competence, building commitment, building teamwork and building systems and how that fits into the four drivers of engagement that we talked about. [00:55:28] So there's a path and pattern and a method to the madness. I've had the opportunity to interview some wonderful leaders, global leaders that have had broad teams, broad, different industries, different circumstances, but people that I have tremendous respect for, and they've all shared their information. [00:55:45] I've got case studies in the book from places where I've applied this, so it's not just my theory or things that I hope will work. I've showed people how this has actually worked in the real world, and they can take those in practical ways and apply them immediately with them. If people want to reach out to me, if the people are ready to work together, if I can support them in their efforts, they can reach out to me either by going to my website, fresh biz, B I Z solutions with an S at the end. com. And they can find a lot of wonderful information there, including a free engagement assessment so they can immediately see how their team is performing, where their strengths are, or they can reach out to me and connect through LinkedIn. That's where I normally play on my social media there. I have posts and newsletters there that come out weekly, and they can find me there under Coach Kon. [00:56:34] Coach Kon with a K, because it's hard to get people to trust you when you spell Kon with a C.  [00:56:40] Jason: There you go. Yeah, probably true. All right. Coach Kon. Great to have you here on the show. Thanks for hanging out with us on the DoorGrow show. Appreciate you being here.  [00:56:49] Kon: Thank you, my friend.  [00:56:50] Jason: All right. So for those of you that enjoy the show, you know, check out his website, freshbizsolutions. com. And if you are a property management business owner and entrepreneur, and you're struggling with adding doors, getting your systems in place. We would love to support you and see if we might be a fi

As entrepreneurs, we have the ability to make a difference in the world and in those we serve by aligning our  In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Ryan Pineda, real estate investing expert and author of The Wealthy Way to talk about real estate, business, and faith. You'll Learn [01:34] Getting Started in Entrepreneurship [08:07] Faith and Business [17:16] Having Impact as a Business Owner [29:50] You are What You Consume [45:35] Don't Wait to do the Work Tweetables  ”There's no more efficient business model for positively changing the world than business.” “ When you start becoming process-driven more than results-driven, your life changes.” “ We should expect things to be hard and worth it.” “ You are what you consume in all areas of life.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: There's so much wisdom in there and if you can at least just be willing to extract wisdom wherever you can find it, then you're not an idiot And so at least start there, everybody listening, just look for wisdom, be a seeker of wisdom and look for the things that are better and higher.  [00:00:16] Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. [00:00:34] DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:00:54] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. [00:01:13] Now let's get into the show.  [00:01:17] So my guest today, I am honored to hang out with Ryan Pineda. Ryan, welcome to the show.  [00:01:22] Ryan: Hey, happy to be here. Good to see you.  [00:01:25] Jason: So Ryan, I'd love to kick things off by getting into your background of how you kind of got into this journey of entrepreneurship. But before we do that, your company's called Wealthy Investor, right? [00:01:36] Yep. And you've worked with a lot of real estate investors. My target audience listening to the show are usually the vehicle or the support mechanism for a lot of investors. I think the audience would be interested in hearing a little bit about how you got kind of started into entrepreneurism first of all, and then maybe how you got into real estate. [00:01:57] Ryan: Yeah, I'll give the quick story. You know, I never wanted to get into real estate or entrepreneurship. I was a baseball player growing up and that was all I wanted to do. I was grateful and thankful that I was able to actually do that. You know, I ended up getting drafted by the Oakland A's and got to play professional baseball for eight years. [00:02:15] But, I didn't get paid much in the minor leagues. I never made it to the bigs. I was making 1200 bucks a month. And so I had to make money elsewhere. And that's what led me in entrepreneurship. You know, I got my real estate license in 2010. Yep. And, you know, so I've been in the game for about 15 years now. [00:02:32] And, you know, I've seen a lot. You know, started as an agent and hated it. My mom was actually a property manager. I didn't tell you that. So, I watched her do that for a little bit while being an agent as well. So she was an agent herself, but you know, watching her, I had no desire to be an agent or do anything in real estate because when I got in in 2010, she had just lost everything. [00:02:53] You know, and she's like, you need to get like a safe job. You need to get something that has a salary and a pension. That was literally her advice. Well, and I was like, yeah, maybe, I don't know. Hopefully this baseball thing works out. But while I'm playing, I can't get that. So I'm going to have to do something. [00:03:11] So anyways, I become an agent. Hate it. Do it for a few years. Ended up getting into other weird things. I started flipping couches. I was a substitute teacher. I was just doing anything that could make a buck on the side. And then eventually that led to flipping houses in 2015. [00:03:27] And that was when I, for the first time, started to make some real money. And yeah, I mean, by my third year, I had made, you know, I became a millionaire after year three, flipping houses. And it was just like, wow, this is crazy. And since then I flipped, you know, I think almost 600, 700 homes. And. You know, I've bought rentals. [00:03:47] I own apartment buildings through our syndication. You know, we've coached people, like you said, with wealthy investor. We've coached thousands of students and held really big events. You know, I've started another subsidiary businesses for real estate investors. You know, we have a lead generation company called Lead Kitchen where we help them get leads for sellers. [00:04:05] We have, you know, I had a tax firm, you know, I've kind of done almost everything you can imagine in the real estate world, but  [00:04:10] Jason: Yeah, that's a lot. So I'm curious you said your mom was a property manager and she gave you the advice It was kind of like maybe steer clear of this stuff. [00:04:19] What does your mom think now about everything?  [00:04:22] Ryan: You know what? She's still always hyper cautious so, you know, I retired my parents in 2019 I bought him a house bought him all the cars and everything and my dad actually started working for me in 2018 as a project manager. So he would oversee a lot of our flips and even to this day, he still does it. [00:04:42] Not cause he has to, because he's just like, well, if you're going to, you know, pay for us, I might as well like earn it, you know, and he just wants to support and whatever. So, You know, my dad understands the game. My mom though, obviously she's seen the results, but she's still always hyper cautious. [00:04:57] And so, she doesn't think I need to get a job now, but she does think a lot of times the big risk I take, I shouldn't be taking.  [00:05:05] Jason: Yeah. Looking back, when do you see in hindsight that there were clues that you were maybe destined to be an entrepreneur? Maybe even doing baseball. [00:05:16] Ryan: Yeah. I look back in hindsight, even as a kid and I was always buying and selling and thinking about money. Like I started an eBay account when I was like 12 years old. I remember. You know, buying stuff and bidding on stuff and getting good deals on eBay. And then I remember I was selling Pokemon cards and Yu Gi Oh cards, you know, in middle school and stuff. [00:05:37] And it's just like, You know, the signs were always there. And then even I was always attracted to just making money myself. So like I was good at poker, you know, I won poker tournaments and I played online and I made money that way. And so in hindsight, it was always very clear. I was never going to have a job. [00:05:53] Really the only true job I ever had was playing baseball. And even then it's like, yeah, there's not really a way to be an entrepreneur. I mean, you kind of are you're in charge of your career and how well you want to do and like how well you want to train and. And so, yeah, even in that sense, baseball is kind of in that same vein. [00:06:12] Jason: Yeah. So I'm sure even to get as far as you got in baseball, there was a lot of drive involved and a lot of effort involved, even though there wasn't a lot of pay, it sounds like.  [00:06:25] Ryan: Yeah, I think yeah, for me, like, I had to learn how to like win, you know, at the end of the day, losing is not an option, right? [00:06:33] It's a zero sum game in sports. One person wins, one person loses, you know, for the pitcher to succeed, you must get out. And so, dude, I'm like, I'm going to just figure out how to win. I'm competitive. And so I think competitiveness has always fueled me. It's different in business now because I understand the games that we play. [00:06:52] It's like, you know, We both can have good podcasts. We both can win in business. You don't need to lose for me to win. But that doesn't mean I'm still not competitive.  [00:07:00] Jason: Sure. Yeah. I'm sure in the different industries that you have businesses that you focus on, you have competitors and you probably want to win. [00:07:09] Ryan: I don't want to lose.  [00:07:11] Jason: Right. I want to be the best. I think that's true of most entrepreneurs. There's this drive or, this bite to win. You know, I remember early on, I think some of my first clues as to that I might be an entrepreneur is I was into music. And I remember in college, I was going around door to door pre selling CDs so that I could fund doing an album. [00:07:31] And yet I still at the time was thinking I've got to get a degree to get some sort of job to rise the corporate ladder. And I had no clue that entrepreneurism was like a path at the time. So it's interesting and Entrepreneurism sort of found me In that I needed a way to not be doing a nine to five job to be able to take care of kids because I ended up as a single father right and divorced and like went through all this stuff. [00:07:57] And so I was like, all right, what can I do? And so I sometimes joke that my kids turned me into an entrepreneur. It was just what needed to be done, but there were always clues before, right? So you know, one of the things that you've talked about a lot, I've noticed on your social media, on podcasts is you're very faith forward. [00:08:15] Like you're very comfortable talking about your faith and like the things that kind of motivate you and drive you. And you're involved in some charitable sort of, you know, businesses or charitable entities or organizations as well. How does faith sort of play into all of this when it comes to business for you? [00:08:33] Ryan: Well, you know, I grew up in the church. So, you know, for those who don't know, I'm a Christian. And you know, I grew up in a baptist church and you know, faith was always a part of my life. And I felt like for the most part, I did things the way God wanted me to. You know, I didn't really rebel and go crazy in college, got married young. [00:08:51] You know, I've always tried to put God first and everything. And You know, I think in the last couple of years, God was just pushing me to get even more deep in faith and more bold and to really embrace the spiritual and supernatural side of faith because I was always a very theologically sound person. [00:09:11] And you know, I've read the Bible many times, and, you know, I spent a lot of time, like I said, in church and serving and other things, but you just realize in everything in life, especially with faith, that there's so little that you actually know, and you know, as I've grown in my faith, I've learned to hear from God better. [00:09:29] And tune out all the noise of everything else going out in life, right? I mean, there's so many distractions in life. There's your business, there's social media, there's your kids, your family, you know, the recession, the election, it's like distraction. I think that's Satan's biggest, yeah, that's Satan's biggest tool is to distract you from the truth. [00:09:49] And so the truth was God wanted me to get more bold and to really use my platform for him, not for me. And, you know, with that, I became convicted to just really go all in because I mean, one thing I guess people would notice about my career too, is like, there's no really lukewarmness, you know, when I go all in on something. [00:10:09] It's like, yo, if we're going to throw an event, it's going to be crazy. If we're going to start this, we're going on a blitz. And so I said, you know what, we need to start something for Christian entrepreneurs and Christian business people. And so, you know, I created Wealthy Kingdom last year and you know, we're a nonprofit and, you know, we have three goals. [00:10:27] Well, I shouldn't say three goals. The one goal, the mission is to bring the kingdom to the marketplace. And what I mean by that is so many entrepreneurs just think it's the church's job to, you know, go get people saved and to go disciple people. And it's like, yeah, you know, just invite them to church on Sunday. [00:10:44] It's like, no, our job, every Christian has this goal or mission. You know, Jesus tells us right before he left, he said that the mission here is you need to go make disciples of all nations. We all have that same mission. And it's like, it's not to make the most money. It's not to do the thing that you love. [00:11:05] Like, Jesus never said do the thing that you love. Like that's another big lie that, you know, people have been told.  [00:11:12] Jason: Jesus didn't even do what he loved necessarily. Like to a degree, he said, I don't even do my own will. Yeah. He does the will of him who sent me. Right. He's like, I'm not even doing my own will. [00:11:22] And so if that's a model, then maybe it's not about just selfishly doing our own will all the time.  [00:11:29] Ryan: Absolutely should not. Our will, as we grow should be more aligned with the father's will. And that's what sanctification is. So anyways, to, to long story short. God called us to go be disciples where we're at. [00:11:42] We don't like, we need to go make disciples of all nations right now. That's in our job, in our career, in our business, at an event, whatever. And so I took that to heart. So we started you know, looking at everything that we currently do. And we said, well, let's do it for the King. And so I said, all right, well, let's get a kingdom based community. [00:12:01] And so, you know, we started an online community because that's something we currently do in business. It's like, well, let's get one kingdom based. And so we have that it's completely free. Anyone can join it. Then I said, let's throw events. We throw a lot of events. Why are we not throwing kingdom events? [00:12:14] And so we started throwing big events for the kingdom. And in fact, in my secular events, I just started throwing worship services and pastors in the middle of the event without even telling anyone. Because I'm like, look, this might be the only time they ever hear the good news in their entire life. [00:12:31] And, you know, whatever they might like it, they might not like it, but I don't really care. They need to hear it. And so we started incorporating faith into our events. You know, and then the last thing was really just discipling the current believers because I'm all about the lost. I want to get the lost at the events. [00:12:50] With our content, with our community, but also too, what about the people who are already saved? Well, we need to disciple them and make them better. And so we started running Bible studies all across the country. And I think we're close to a hundred, actually across the world right now, that meet every single week in people's offices, in their homes. [00:13:07] And we all go through the same studies together in these Bible studies, across as a body. And it's really cool. So, yeah, we're trying to attack it from a lot of different angles.  [00:13:18] Jason: It's a lot to organize.  [00:13:20] Ryan: Oh, yeah. But here's the thing, right? It's weird because I just said, Hey, don't do your will. Do God's will. [00:13:26] Right. But on the same hand, God gave us all talents, abilities and different life experiences. And so, you know, he calls us to use those to do his will and it's like all right god gave me a lot of influence online. Why am I not making videos and content, you know helping people understand what that means? [00:13:47] God gave me the ability to throw massive events. We threw wealth con every quarter a thousand plus people every quarter for years. Why am I not throwing massive events for the kingdom? God gave me the ability to organize communities and groups and all these things. Why am I not organizing and using my administrative gifts to do that? And it's like it's all the same thing, and they're all the same gifts and they're all the same skill sets, but on one hand you're putting him first and on the other hand you're putting yourself first  [00:14:16] Jason: Yeah, I love the idea of you know positively impacting the world I think business a lot of people don't realize I think business really there's no more efficient business model for positively changing the world than business, right? [00:14:31] I don't think charities don't function as well like businesses. There's an exchange of value And if there's value like behind it and there's a mission and a purpose behind it Then even the team members the employees everybody Are more lit up and excited and so business is a very efficient business model and you know, one of my past mentors, Alex Charfen, and he would say something to the effect of like entrepreneurs are the people that have changed the world throughout history. [00:14:57] They're the people that kind of think differently. And you know, you mentioned the word disciple like several times and I love the scripture where it's like, how do you know who's a disciple, right? And it's by this shall men know, right? You're my disciple. If you have loved one towards another and I think you know this spreading this message of like sharing true principles Which I think is what makes scripture, right? [00:15:20] It's that there's true principles that can be applied to things that are useful and I think a really good business book will have maybe one key principle it teaches, but then you take a book like the bible and it's just full of lots of different instances of principles that these levers that you can apply to various situations in your life or in decision making. [00:15:39] And you know, that's always been sort of my purpose, I feel is to bring principles to people and to share principles of truth to others, because I feel like that's the easiest lever to impact people's mindset or change their lives is to bring some truth or light or some true principles that they can apply, especially if it's facilitating more love or more kindness. [00:16:01] And there's so many different things different principles that apply in business in order to figure things out like related hiring related to you know running an efficient business  [00:16:11] Ryan: How do you know like a non profit is a business right? I mean, it's a non profit.  [00:16:15] Jason: Yeah, it is. It is a business. Yeah. [00:16:17] Ryan: A church is a business technically based on its designation, Wealthy Kingdom is a business. [00:16:22] It's a nonprofit, right? I mean, in many cases, well, I shouldn't say this because every nonprofit's different, but like for me, I make literally nothing from it. You know, I do it out of a, you know, I just want to do it. Now we have employees, we have staff, we have marketing, we have event costs, we got to pay for all this stuff. [00:16:38] Right. And so we got to figure out, man, how do we use the resources we have in the best way possible? Well, it's the same thing we ask ourself every day in business. We have a limited amount of labor, a limited amount of capital, a limited amount of time. What do we do, you know, to make the most of it? So it's all the same. [00:16:57] And I think too, right, you don't even have to have a nonprofit for this to be the example, right? This is just simply the idea of stewardship. You know, God talks a lot about stewardship and it's like, well. I've given y'all different varying degrees of talent. I've put y'all in different places. Y'all are going to be judged accordingly based on how you used your talent. [00:17:16] And I think that, well, I know that 1, 000, and a lot of Christians don't realize this. A lot of Christians, so, for all the Christians on the show, this is going to hopefully convict you, okay? A lot of people think that when you get saved, that's the end of the journey. Yeah, when literally that is like they've arrived they're done. [00:17:39] You just started! Great! [00:17:41] Jason: Yeah.  [00:17:41] Ryan: Now guess what you your whole rest of your life now actually begins and so many people like, God tells us that hey, guess what? Once you're saved, you know, there's a new judgment now. Because before it was like, all right, what happens in eternity, right? You're going to be in heaven. [00:17:58] You're going to be in hell. That's like the salvation question, but then there's this next question about judgment and stewardship and what you did with what he gave you because Somebody like myself and you will be judged more harshly than other christians and people are like, what does that mean? [00:18:18] Well, it means that if he gave you more resource and he even says if you're a teacher and you cause other people to stumble, you are going to be judged significantly more harshly than others. And so I take that super serious because I'm like, all right, yeah, I'm saved. I'm not worried about that, but man, I better do everything in my power to be a great steward and to understand if I have influence and I'm teaching people, I know exactly what I'm saying. [00:18:44] Jason: Yeah, it's much like the Parable of the Talents, you know, the worst was like to try and bury it and hide it, hide the money. The person that did the best with the money that he trusted with the most money, like, made twice as much money, like, he increased it significantly, right?  [00:19:00] Ryan: And he was also given the person's talent that, who buried his talent. [00:19:04] Jason: Exactly. He's like, I'm going to take it away from you because you don't know how to use this or how to deal with it. And so I think there's a nice summation of business in that for us, like where much is given, much is required and yeah, I've got a little bit of an audience. [00:19:18] You've got a little bit of an audience as well, right? We've got these audiences and people are listening, people pay attention to what we're doing And you know, we have a ripple effect. And I have a ripple effect through my clients who have a ripple effect through all the families that they support, the investors, the team members that they have. And that's significant and to me, that's exciting. Like, that's what motivates me to do what I do. [00:19:43] That's inspiring. But yeah, I could see that some people would maybe it would convict them. Maybe they would feel maybe they feel a little ashamed if they thought about it, man, you know, the energy I'm putting out into the world and in the universe here, isn't the ripple that I really feel is the best ripple I could create. [00:19:59] Ryan: Well, the other part, too, is obviously we have ripples here on Earth, but, you know, there are ripples for eternity based on our decisions for the people we help and everything else, and, you know, the Bible talks about how, you know, you store up your treasures in heaven, and if you read, you know, a lot of Christians also don't know this, they think that Heaven is this place where everybody's equal and, you know, we're all in the same thing. [00:20:25] No, it's actually not like there's hierarchies in heaven there. Like it's clear when the disciples are talking to Jesus and they're like, man, dude, I want to sit on your right hand. He's like, you don't even know what you're asking for. And. you know, they're clearly trying to be in that inner circle after this too. [00:20:43] And, you know, you could read all about it. There's hierarchy with demons. There's hierarchy with angels. Hierarchy is going to be in heaven. It's already there. And it's like, you know, you got a lot of investors on this podcast who are like, Oh man, I got to invest for the future. I got to get my net worth here. [00:21:01] I got to get my cashflow here. I got to. And it's like, we're investing trying to build for the future of this life. And once you truly understand that this life is so short in the span of eternity, you start thinking very differently. And you're like, well, I would rather invest for eternity. And actually, we just read this book in our Wealthy Kingdom group. [00:21:21] It's called Driven by Eternity by John Bevere. It's a great, one of the most convicting books I've ever read. But, he goes, alright. He's like, I learned this in math. Anything divided by infinity is infinity. And it's like, eternity is infinity, right? But if you were to try and even just, finitely say it with our brains, let's just say the next 24 hours, we're going to dictate the next thousand years of your reward here on earth, right? [00:21:48] How you spent the next 24 hours would dictate what reward you got for the next thousand years. You'd be like, that's insane, right? That doesn't seem right. That, you know, this is going to be  [00:22:00] Jason: proportionately skewed. To this moment. Yeah, it's- [00:22:04] Ryan: that's not even close to infinity.  [00:22:07] Jason: Yeah.  [00:22:08] Ryan: We spend 100 years here on this earth thinking we have all this time. In the scheme of infinity, it's worse than way where it could be 24 hours to 10, 000 years to a million years, a billion years. It's still not infinity. And yeah, people just don't, they don't think about it because it's so hard to grasp. But it's like I wish and this is why god has you know kind of got me more vocal about it. [00:22:33] So we're talking about it now But it's like I want investors because I'm an investor right now, you know, like I'm always looking for the best investment I'm always looking for the best use of my time, but I want people to start thinking about man, Invest for eternity. That's way longer than this! Your retirement is way shorter than infinity and eternity. [00:22:54] Jason: Though, could Jesus be a house flipper in the eternities? Because he says in my father's house, there's many mansions, right? And he said, I'm going to prepare something for you guys. And so I think what you're talking about is maybe we should be paying a little less attention maybe to just our real estate assets and our investing here and maybe do some heavenly real estate investing. [00:23:17] Ryan: I'm being 1, 000, that's 1, 000 percent what I'm saying. And it's changed my mindset so much in the last year that I could care less about my net worth. I could care less about how many properties I own. I could care less about any of it. Because eternity is so much greater.  [00:23:36] Jason: So some people might be saying, Ryan, come on. [00:23:38] You're wealthy now. You run Wealthy Investor. You've got money. So it's easy for you to say that. What would you say to the naysayers?  [00:23:46] Ryan: I would say that I've had a certain level of contentness, no matter how much money I had. I made 1200 bucks my entire 20s a month. Okay. So like, I understand what it is to have nothing. [00:23:57] And you know, people always make an excuse, right? It's like, I got three kids and a wife, five, five and under, man, I got a special needs son. I spend a lot of time with my kids. And it's like, well, you know, that's cause you, everybody's default is that's cause you have money or this or that. [00:24:14] It's like, no, all these things were built with nothing. They were all built simultaneously. It wasn't that, oh, this came after that. It's like, no, they were all built in the same construct. So people just need to realize it's just an excuse. It's a cop out. Right. And the other part too, is it's just a fact of not trusting what the Bible says. [00:24:33] So if you're not Christian- [00:24:34] Jason: which essentially is just not trusting God,  [00:24:37] Ryan: Yeah, and if you're not Christian and you don't believe it, that's one thing. But if you are a Christian, you cannot say that you are a Christian and then claim that. It is a lie. And it's like, if you read Matthew 6:33, seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, then everything else will be added to you. [00:24:54] And so this is where it comes into play of like, if I'm seeking those eternal rewards, everything else will be added to me. Now, does that mean I'm going to be a hundred millionaire billionaire own all these prop-? No, but I do know I'm going to be just fine here on earth. Like, I don't have to worry about that. [00:25:11] Like I'll be taken care of. It'll be added to me. So I just trust that promise.  [00:25:17] Jason: Yeah. I think I've always just trusted, even when money was tight, I've always trusted in my ability to figure things out and that God's going to take care of me. I just, I bought  [00:25:27] Ryan: money's been tight for me many times after I've been rich. [00:25:30] Jason: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:25:31] Ryan: Like so many times every business owner every you know, Elon Musk, dude I mean the richest man in the world, right? This guy struggles with money like, you know Yeah, dude, he had to buy Twitter for 50 billion dollars he didn't have 50 billion dollars just laying around It was like the last hour to figure out how to go buy that thing. You know, they tell the story of how he invested all of his, like, 300 million he got from PayPal into Tesla and SpaceX and they were going to both go bankrupt and not make it. [00:26:01] Yeah. So, you know, I guess it all just is, like, it comes back to this idea that people think that there's a certain amount of wealth that prevents you from, you know, ever having to work again. And that's not true. It's just not true. Like, it can all be taken from you instantly.  [00:26:16] Jason: So, here's a thought I have that I think might convict, as you say, you know, Christians or just other people that claim to believe in God. [00:26:24] Is one thing I've noticed is you know, especially among, I guess, poor christians or people that have money issues is that I've noticed this action of cursing reality while claiming to love god. It's like oh well this sucks and this and they're kind of they're negative about everything showing up in reality and my favorite name for God in a lot of instances is reality because he says I am what is I am the truth he's the ultimate and reality always wins God always ultimately wins and I don't think it's fair for a christian to claim, I'm like so like faithful to god yet I'm going to curse my reality and complain about reality and complain about how everything is and complain about my family and my spouse and my job and the world and everything else. And there's such a difference I think in people that are at odds with reality which reality will always win. Reality doesn't lie reality is what is and those that are actually in alignment with reality, and align their will to god. [00:27:29] What do you think of that?  [00:27:30] Ryan: Yeah, I mean look god has been here way before us and here's another thing. I tell people I'm just like, all right, look, you know Even if you're not a Christian, right? I think majority of people believe there is something after this life. People believe there is, you know, some supernatural thing. [00:27:47] Most people would believe in the afterlife and whatever. And then, you know, almost everyone agrees there was nothing and then there was something right. And we would call this the creation of the world. But you know, my belief is, you know, It's based on the Bible, and the Bible tells us that there was a supernatural world well before this physical world you know, God talks about there was angels, there was all these things happening well before he created the earth, and the earth is going to pass away, and then, you know, You know, it's going to be back to how it was. [00:28:16] And you know, it's like, and you know, there's going to be a new heaven, new earth, all these things, but my point with that is God was always, that's just the best he has always been. He will always will be. He will always like he's past, present, future. He's just all present. And you know, The other part I struggle with a lot of Christians is they just don't understand the power that they have. [00:28:44] You know, they walk in weakness. And in reality, it's like, Do you realize, an axe, Jesus said or not an axe, but in the Gospels, and then it happened, an axe. He said, look it's good that I'm leaving you, because you're going to get something far better than just me being here with you physically. You're going to get the Helper, and then an axe, they receive the Holy Spirit, literally God living within them, inside of them. [00:29:08] And it's like, you have literally the same God that has always been here, that created you, that created this world living inside of you, and you're worried? What would you ever be worried about? You know, just think like back to just metaphors, you know, would you ever be worried if like, you know financially if you had just like all this money just with you at all times? [00:29:31] No, you wouldn't be worried financially. Would you be worried for your physical safety if you had the most elite killers as bodyguards around you at all times? No, you wouldn't be worried about your safety. You know, like, we have something so much better than all of those things, and we're worried. [00:29:46] We think we can't do things. We don't trust.  [00:29:50] Jason: So this is a good question. Let's bring this back to entrepreneurism. How can people, maybe they don't believe in God, maybe they, they do, but how do they bring themselves, do you feel, and how do you do this? How do you bring yourself in alignment with this greater power for those that maybe can just believe that or towards the universe or the God that created it? [00:30:12] How do we start to get ourselves in alignment? So we know we're on the right path.  [00:30:15] Ryan: Well, this doesn't apply to just God. But this is just everything in life, right? You are what you consume. So if I consume junk food and crap, then, you know, I'm going to be fat and my energy will suck and all those things, right? [00:30:30] Or like for another example, right? If I consume the news all day, 24 seven, right? I'm probably going to be a very skeptical, not trusting person. I'm going to have biases, all these things. Yeah. If I consume entrepreneur content all day and I watch all these guys I'm probably just going to be thinking about making money 24 seven, right? [00:30:48] You are what you consume in all areas of life and you know, you are the average of the five people you hang around with all of these things are a form of just what you consume And so if you want to become more like jesus you have to consume and get around people that are like Jesus. And so, you know, what does that look like? [00:31:05] Well, it looks like reading your Bible every day. It looks like praying every day. It looks like hanging around, you know, other Christians who are walking the walk. It looks like going to church on Sundays. It looks like listening to sermons, listening to worship music. You know, you just have to immerse yourself in it and consume it. And that's how you're going to become more aligned. It's crazy because like, I'll tell you this, and this could sound extreme to people, but it's like, you start to realize the rest of the things in the world that are deception, right? It's like, I used to not think rap music and things were like bad. [00:31:38] You know, I used to listen to gangster rap all the time, man. I love Tupac and all these guys. And then you start to just like, you know, they call me little Ryan. You know, you look, you listen to the lyrics, you know, from a different point of view and you're like, Oh my gosh, this is not good. This is crazy that I listened to this when I was a kid, I should not have been listening to this. [00:31:59] Right. Because you start to get convicted if you watch porn, it's like you're going to start looking at your wife a different way because you're just you're consuming the wrong things. Yeah. Yeah, and even little things start to convict you too. It's like, for the first time ever, we didn't celebrate Halloween this year. [00:32:15] Because I just became convicted that you know, its origins are demonic. And it's like, you just watch all of this stuff with it. And it's like, yeah, definitely none of this glorifies God. If it doesn't glorify God, why would I do it? You know? And it's like it glorifies demons and, you know, all of these dark things, it's like, that doesn't seem proper. [00:32:39] Jason: Yeah, like, you know, it's kind of that balance of how to be in the world, but not of the world, right? Like Jesus was hanging out with publicans and sinners and he was around people, but he also wasn't like just doing everything that they were doing. And so, yeah, I think that's an interesting concept. [00:32:53] I like, though, what you said about. And that wasn't even where my head was going, when I asked the question, but I love that you said like look at the people that you're choosing to be around. There's a consumption there and There's this book called the Dark Side of the Light Chasers it's by Debbie Ford and it's interesting because she talks about in it that we each have this golden side and we also have this dark side to us and the golden side Is the side of ourselves that we see reflected in others that we of the people that we look up to. And there's different people that kind of trigger that in us. [00:33:25] Some people, for example, like look at Donald Trump, very polarizing figure. Some people look at him and are very triggered and their dark side is triggered. They see a narcissist, they see all these negative attributes and then there's some that look at him and they're like, Oh, he's an entrepreneur or he's strong or he's masculine or whatever. [00:33:42] Right? And they look at the golden side. And I think what we see in other people and the people we choose to be around, we want to choose to be around people that we perceive as having a light. Somebody that has something that we want and attributes that we want to become more like. And I think choosing to do that, especially in choosing mentors, is important. [00:34:01] Because you're going to ultimately become a little bit more like them. And that doesn't mean every mentor that I choose is, like, ahead of me in every key area of life. But if they're at least in the area a little bit ahead of me in success in the area I'm getting coaching from then I'm going to absorb that but I'm careful not to take on everything else and to be discerning and to use discernment. [00:34:23] I think it's important like you said to be around people that you perceive as being a high caliber or people that you believe are moving towards greater light.  [00:34:33] Ryan: I agree with all of it.  [00:34:36] Jason: Love that. All right. So Ryan, what if somebody is listening to this and we talked a lot about like kind of faith, God, religion, stuff like this, and somebody who's like, okay, maybe I'm willing to entertain the idea that God exists. [00:34:54] Maybe Jesus is somebody I should like figure out, what would you say is a good first step for those people?  [00:35:02] Ryan: Well, you know, obviously like the Bible is the truth, right? That's God's revelation to us. And so a lot of people are like, well, I don't even know where to start with the Bible. I would say step one buy a study Bible. [00:35:13] So I would just go on Amazon. I would just, I would get an IV study Bible. It's very simple. So that way it has you know, just notes on the side for you to help you understand what it's saying and different questions. And so, you know, I have a study Bible right here. So this is, you know, maybe you can find this one on Amazon. [00:35:31] This is called the Quest Study Bible. Now, this Bible is like 15 years old. So maybe this one, they don't make this one anymore. But actually, I know they do make a version of it. It's not called the Quest Study Bible anymore, but just look at the NIV Study Bible. And I would start in Matthew. [00:35:44] That is the very beginning of the New Testament. I would just start in Matthew and read it all the way through. So, unlike other books where you start at the very beginning. You're going to start about two thirds of the way through in Matthew and just trust me, it'll make sense. So that would be step one. [00:35:58] Step two, I would say, you know, obviously you want to get plugged into a local church. That, that's a lot harder for somebody who doesn't know anything. So here's what I would advise is join us at Wealthy Kingdom. So it's wealthykingdom.Com. Everything's free. You can be a part of the community and you can get plugged into a Bible study with other entrepreneurs in your area or virtually. So that's going to be your best place to really build connections because you're going to also be around other people who understand the actual life that you live right now. And they're open. We have lots of non believers in our Bible studies who are there to learn, man. [00:36:34] They're like, look, I'm here to learn. I don't know. I don't believe. I don't even know what you believe, but I'm here to learn. And so we, we love those types of people. So I would, those would be the two steps I do because I don't know everybody here listening is listening to different things. So I don't know what local church you should go to or anything. [00:36:52] So come join us virtually. And then you're probably going to meet people in Wealthy Kingdom that are in your area, especially the local Bible study. And they're going to know what local church for you to go to.  [00:37:02] Jason: Got it. You know, this is maybe a controversial hot take of, mine But I feel like a lot of people get so caught up in trying even among christians or non christians trying to prove whether the bible and everything in it is factual history or not It's like facts and data. [00:37:19] They're trying to prove it and I think both sides miss sight of the most important elements, which is are there true principles that are applicable? Can you apply these things to your life? Are they useful tools? And I think that's the real measure of a principle, whether it's true or not, is you try it out. [00:37:38] You test this, try this on in your life and see if the fruit is good. See if it gives you positive results. Does it give you positive results to believe these things? Or does it cause, you know, does it take you in the opposite direction? Do you feel like you're moving towards something higher? Or is it taking you backwards? [00:37:57] Ryan: Yeah, there's biblical truth to that. You know, there was a reason Jesus performed miracles, you know, like a lot of people, a lot of people are like, well, why? Right? He could have just said all the things he said, hey, you know, don't steal. You know, follow the Ten Commandments. Love your neighbor. [00:38:13] Everybody can agree with those things. But it's like, yo. I'm going to make this person the lord of my life, which he was asking them to do, to believe that he's the son of God, to believe and give their entire life to him. It's like, well, dude, you better show me something else if you want me to commit to that degree. [00:38:31] And you know, that's why he performed signs and wonders to show them that, hey, look, I am the one. And You know, it's true, right? Like, that's why he did it. And that's why all of the disciples you know, were killed for preaching it well after he was gone, because they saw it, they believed, and they knew that the reward, you know, was going to be great eternally, right? [00:38:52] Look, Jesus says it to Doubting Thomas too, when he returns, right? A lot of the disciples believe, they're like, Oh dude, like he's back. And then Thomas is like, I ain't believing until I see him. Until I see the holes in his body. And so Jesus comes back and he's like, Look, Thomas, feel the hole, right? [00:39:08] Shows him the hole in his hands. And he's like, blessed are those who believe without seeing.  [00:39:12] Their faith is stronger, but still, it's all good that you needed to see to believe. Like, it's all good. And so. There are going to be people who listen to this and they're like, I believe all this makes sense. [00:39:26] And then there are going to be those who say no, I need to see the fruit. I need to see why I should believe. And in fact, I still believe miracles happen today. I've seen them with my own hands. I've prayed for miracles that cannot be explained other than they were miraculous. And you know, with that, it's like both happen. [00:39:43] Jason: I think that I think if we're really created in the image of God,. Then I think that is a clue that we might be a lot more powerful than we realize and you know there's even evidence that the placebo effect is getting stronger as time goes on. So like as they do drug testing and stuff like this drugs have to pass a certain test that they're stronger than placebo. The challenge is drugs are having a harder and harder time showing that they're stronger than placebo because the placebo effect is actually getting stronger. And I think that humanity worked our consciousness is raising a bit. [00:40:19] I think that people are realizing that we are creators, that we are more powerful than we give ourselves credit. And, you know, Jesus says, if you have faith, like a grain of a mustard seed, you could like move a mountain or something. Right. And so I think that I think there is something to, you know, this idea that we can create this positive future or alter our reality or alter things real time, like people's physical health or blessing people or different things. I do think that miracles can occur and there's evidence of it happening all the time. And I think in religion, see, I grew up Mormon. And I'm a very ultra conservative. [00:41:00] I was a Mormon missionary for two years and then eventually left it. I didn't even try alcohol until I was over 30. And I'm the only one in my family that, that left. I'm the black sheep and I'm the oldest of five boys. So, sorry mom, sorry dad.  [00:41:14] Ryan: I'm not happy with you.  [00:41:15] Jason: They still love me, but I think one of the things that I, and I'm grateful for all that I learned, like we, we did, I did a lot of religious study growing up and I was the one that just kept digging until I took my way out of it, I guess. [00:41:26] Ryan: Mormon apologetics is a tough thing to defend.  [00:41:30] Jason: Yeah. So I think you know, there's a lot of people think that they need to sell some sort of gospel or good news of, Jesus or the christian church by convincing people their life is going to suddenly be magical or better and that's not always true, and I don't think that's the whole point is that you don't magically make everything about your external circumstances in your life better, but I think being more in alignment with god and being more connected allows you this greater strength to weather what's happening. [00:42:02] I mean if you look at what happened to Peter or any of the apostles, like they suffered horrible deaths. I don't know that their life magically became more amazing because they followed Jesus, but they had that conviction and they knew truth. And I think in a lot of instances, becoming Christian or believing in Jesus or following his principles may make your life in some instances, more challenging, you know, maybe there's more fiery darts thrown at you by the adversary, for example, but I do believe that there's some sort of there's some sort of power and confidence that comes with knowing that your personal life and will is in alignment with God wants for you. [00:42:45] Like you're following that calling and that knowing within, and there's a strength that comes from that, that nobody else can shake. It doesn't matter like what your parents are saying to you. It doesn't matter what your spouse maybe is concerned about. It doesn't matter if you know, you're doing what is right, then you're willing to just let the consequences follow. [00:43:03] And that's different than just looking for this better life or a mansion here on earth instead of a mansion in heaven.  [00:43:10] Ryan: Yeah, and you know, Jesus said hey you got to pick up your cross and follow me. It's like picking up your cross literally means dying to your old self and giving your all to Jesus And you know somebody's like oh, but like I got to say bye and to my dad and I gotta bury and he's no. [00:43:27] No, this has nothing to do with your current family. This is about you and me You know, whether or not you're going to follow. And you know, I've met many Mormon, ex Mormons, Jews, Muslims, people who have given their life to Jesus. And you know, it's tough because there's so many family dynamics that go on to it. [00:43:46] And it's like, it ain't easy. And I feel for those people, cause that, that's very hard. But I also am a believer that, you know, through your faith and through, you know, those who make that commitment, they have the chance to impact their families. So much more and they can be sanctified through them. [00:44:02] Jason: Yeah, I mean I had a meeting with the mastermind this morning and we were talking about distractions And we were all these they're all men and we're all sharing like what's distracting us and what's holding us you know back from the things we should be doing and you know and I was thinking about you know, just how can I be a better father? [00:44:21] How can I be a better partner, a better spouse? How can it be a better business leader? And at the stage I'm at now, it's just more discipline. It's less distractions. And it's all like cutting out all of the fat and the little things that are so easily taking us. And that's kind of what you led us into here in the beginning. [00:44:39] You know, what do you, what would you say to those that are just, they're trying to run their business, they're dealing with a lot of distractions, which is common for entrepreneurs. We see shiny objects everywhere. How do they get focused and how they start, how did they start listening to that inner voice that connects them with the divine so they can start making the right moves? [00:45:00] Ryan: Well, I think it's very simple, right? You just make God the focus. You just have to trust that if you make him the focus. Everything else will fall into place. And then it goes back to Matthew 6, 33, seek first the kingdom and his righteousness and everything else will be added to you. And that's faith. [00:45:18] That's faith in a nutshell, because you'll be like, well, don't understand the fires that I have, Ryan. You don't understand the drama and the problems. My kids are doing this, my relationship with my wife sucks. Like I got to focus over there in order to fix. You know, well, before I can go worry about God. [00:45:35] I mean, that's like the biggest thing I hear all the time too. It's like, well, I. Once I get my life right, then I'll start going to church. I'm like, no, you can't get your life right. That's why Jesus paid the price, because you can't. It's the same funny thing I hear when people are like-  [00:45:49] Jason: it's like saying once I get abs, I'll stop eating candy bars. [00:45:53] Ryan: Yeah, well, I was going to use a health example too where I hear this actually from people because I was in sports for so long Hey, I'm going to get in shape first, then I'm going to go get a trainer and start you know, because I'm not ready to go train with them like, that's too hard. I got to like get in shape first and I'm like, dude. [00:46:09] No, that's why you need a trainer like no, And yeah, it's the same thing with faith. It's like if you follow god and you seek his ways I mean just like you've been saying from a practical standpoint. If you follow what the Bible says, your relationship with your wife will get better. Like, you're just going to be a better leader, you're going to serve her, you're going to be different. [00:46:27] Your relationship with your kids will get better. The relationship with your employees will get better. The way you act in business will be better. You know? And it doesn't mean that it's going to be easy. I didn't say it was going to be easy. I just said, it's going to get better. And you know, I've had, yeah. And I had, I've had so many difficult situations in business, you know, lost millions, investors pissed, customers pissed, lawsuits. [00:46:53] I've dealt with everything you could imagine in business. And guess what? Every time I've been able to get through it and it's because of my faith and I didn't know how I would get through it. I didn't know what the outcome would be. I didn't know how I would solve it. But I can tell you I slept pretty good throughout all of it because I just knew God would take care of it some way somehow. [00:47:16] Jason: You knew it would be figured out and you felt like you had somebody on your side that's pretty powerful.  [00:47:21] Ryan: I mean, God promises to be on my side.  [00:47:23] Jason: Yeah.  [00:47:24] Ryan: You know, Romans 8, 28 says that, you know, he works all things for my good, for those who believe.  [00:47:30] Jason: Even the tough stuff.  [00:47:32] Ryan: All things, not some things.  [00:47:34] Jason: Whom God loves, he chastens. Despise not the chastening of the Lord, right? So may not necessarily be easy, but yeah, it'll be worth it.  [00:47:41] Ryan: Don't expect anything to be easy.  [00:47:43] Jason: Right. I think we go into it, we should expect things to be hard and worth it. And I think when we're, it's kind of like the old stoic adage, you know, hard choices, easy life. [00:47:53] Easy choices, hard life. We all know people that they're focused on ease. They're focused on trying to have comfort They're focused on how do I how do I avoid doing stuff? I just want to relax. I just want my weekend I just want time and I think as i've grown into adulthood and you know focus more on stepping more into my masculinity. [00:48:13] I've realized that you know, nobody's coming to save us, except maybe Jesus, right? Nobody's coming to do it for us. There's a level of work that's expected and we need to get beyond always seeking comfort because comfort is a deceptive and alluring sort of drug and we need to be willing to put in the work put in the effort and focus and put in that discipline and then life gets a lot easier overall Like life gets a lot better overall when we're disciplined. Disciplined people don't cheat on their spouses. [00:48:47] Disciplined people like, you know, take care of their kids and spend time with them on the weekend. Disciplined people you know, focus and take care of their health so they have less health issues. They're putting their own oxygen mask on first, so to speak, so they can take care of others, right? [00:49:02] And that's it. That's discipline. And I think that's important. Well, Ryan we're about out of time. I really appreciate you coming on the show. This has been I think inspiring conversation. It's got my brain sort of running in a bunch of different directions thinking about, you know, how can I be better and how can I evolve as a human? [00:49:19] What would you like to say in your final words to those listening to this podcast and maybe how they can get in touch with you or your various businesses.  [00:49:30] Ryan: Yeah, I think you know, as far as getting in touch with me, that's easy. You can just go on social media, search Ryan Pineda, wherever. [00:49:37] So that part's easy. I would say the final thing to leave him with, I mean, we've talked a lot about faith and eternity and everything else. And that's usually the final thing I leave on podcasts because I don't depending on where the conversation goes, right? You know, I'll always draw it back to faith. [00:49:51] So I would just say that, man, I mean, like, look there's a common theme for what we're saying. It's like, life's going to be hard one way or the other, you know, you're going to go through tough times. You are going to have uncertainty. You're not going to know if things are going to work out or not the way that you're hoping. [00:50:08] You know, One thing I know for sure is, and this will apply for both ways, not just faith, but also business and faith. When you start becoming process driven more than results driven, your life changes. Because you're never going to be up and down with the result. You're always just trusting the process. [00:50:28] And so, you know, baseball, we had to learn this every day. It's like, I don't know who's pitching tomorrow. I don't know. Like, I just got to trust my routine, my process, and then I'm doing the right things every day. And if I follow that, I know I'm going to get the best result that I possibly can get. In the long run, and I think you were referencing that when it comes to, Hey, you know what? [00:50:46] Even if you don't believe these biblical principles are going to change your life, that's a form of trusting the process. And if you do, you know, you'll end up getting better results just overall, whether you believe or not, and you just follow that process. And then, you know, I would say even to take it a step further, it's like, man, if you trust that he is the creator of this world and he has promised to take care of you then that's a process to choose to have faith and trust that's the case, to trust that his plan is better than your plan. And it's not easy because we all want control. We all want certainty. That's, you know, that's our human nature. [00:51:21] That's why we're trying to get financially free. That's why we're trying to you know, get enough cash flow and I teach on these things like I get it. But there's a better plan. And you know, if you just trust the process every day of following him, he will make your path straight, you know? And so I've seen that in my own life. [00:51:42] I'll tell you this. I never thought I'd be a podcaster, an events guy, a social media guy. I never thought that was going to be the thing, but. I felt like God was calling me down that path, and here we are. And I don't know where he's going to call me the next 10 years. I don't have a 10 year plan. I don't have any of that, and I don't care. [00:51:59] All I'm trying to do is whatever God's calling me to do at this moment, and I want to be flexible to his will, and be very careful not to just insert my will. And that's it, right?  [00:52:10] Jason: Yeah, appreciate it. You know, appreciate you coming on the show. I think, I agree. I think you know, even if you, For some reason don't want to be christian you don't you don't you're opposed for some reason. [00:52:23] Some people are just like opposed to the bible, just look at the bible through the lens of what are the principles that have made this book one of the greatest books of all time? Why has it stood out? Why has it stood the test of time? Why do so many people look to it for wisdom and for insight? There's so much wisdom in there and if you can at least just be willing to extract wisdom wherever you can find it, then you're not an idiot And so at least start there, everybody listening, just look for wisdom, be a seeker of wisdom and look for the things that are better and higher. [00:52:53] And that's going to eventually lead you to better and higher things and help you to weather the storm. And you can tell Ryan has, you know, he has this confidence that comes from knowing it's not all reliant on him. He trusts that there's something greater than him that's going to give him a source of power or ideas or decision making or guide his paths and to not have that for those of you listening must be terrifying. It must feel a little bit scary to just not have nothing else above you to reach up to. And so there is a god. There's somebody reach up to, go ahead and test it out. [00:53:29] My way of aligning towards God is to sit, read things that I feel like lead me closer to something better and higher. That could be scripture, whatever, or to meditate on something, but then to think, how can I align my will with that? What is that voice inside? What is that calling telling me to do and take those actions and do it. [00:53:47] If you don't take those actions, listen to it, that voice will get quieter. But if you start to listen to that voice and take those actions, it's going to get more and more clear to the point where you have that confidence to go out and make decisions. So I think that's a good ending note here. [00:54:01] So Ryan this is a very different podcast episode than we've ever done here on the DoorGrow show. So there we go. I like it. The most impactful one though. I appreciate you inspiring us to get into faith and chat about that. All right. And And that'll be it for today's show until next time everybody to our mutual growth If you are struggling within your property management business to figure out how to figure out what you need to do next in your business operationally or how to add doors, reach out to us. We'd love to support you. Check us out at doorgrow. com and that's it. Bye everyone. [00:54:33] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:54:59] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

For those who manage short-term rentals, which tools and pieces of software do you use to keep things organized and running smoothly? In today's episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull brings on Jacob Mueller, founder of Renjoy to talk about using technology to help manage short-term rentals. You'll Learn [01:36] The creation of Renjoy [16:55] Software and systems for STR [25:38] Building out systems using Airtable [34:20] Strategic planning systems Tweetables “One of the things that's different about short term rentals is that it's constantly changing.” “You have to be on top of your game. You can't just do the same thing you've been doing.” “It's kind of like you've got a swiss army knife or one of those multi tools, and it's not the same as having a toolbox of high quality.” “The only thing I want to share with all the property managers out there is keep on doing the hard work.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: It's kind of like you've got a swiss army knife or one of those multi tools, and it's not the same as having a toolbox of high quality. [00:00:08] Jacob: That's exactly right. To be able to have like specific specialized tools, you then have to know what you're doing to accumulate those tools and have them all talking and speaking to each other, but if you do it right, very powerful.  [00:00:21] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow Property Managers to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. [00:01:22] Now, let's get into the show. All right. Today's guest, I'm hanging out with Jacob Mueller from Renjoy. Jacob, welcome to the DoorGrow show.  [00:01:33] Jacob: Thanks. It's a pleasure to be here. Jason.  [00:01:36] Jason: Glad to have you. So Jacob, give us a little bit of your background in maybe entrepreneurism and how you eventually got connected maybe to rentals, property management, and and then we can get into Renjoy. [00:01:51] Jacob: Sure. Well, I won't give you the full backstory. It goes all the way back to a college class I took, but I really started getting into real estate right at the perfect time, beginning of ZIRP, zero interest rate era. And I was actually a commercial broker for a little while. I did about six months of leasing and realized I did not enjoy that. [00:02:09] And so then I transitioned to a residential property management firm based out of Denver that focused on investors. When I joined them, Atlas Real Estate, they're in, I don't know, five or six states now. But when I joined them, they were only in Colorado. They managed maybe 2, 500 doors and I was kind of their regional broker in Colorado Springs, which is where I am. [00:02:30] And they are now, I think north of 10, 000 units under management and have grown tremendously on the management side. But I learned a ton from these folks. I learned how to flip property. I learned to invest in real estate. I learned a lot. And so that's kind of where my real estate investing career started. [00:02:46] That was about four or five years ago. And since then I've acquired single family homes some small multi units. And then I've also diversified in my income streams from just long term tenants to also short term tenants. And that's kind of where the story of Renjoy begins. One of my clients and I worked with, as a broker, happened to have quite a few Airbnbs, short term rentals. [00:03:09] And he was buying properties like every six months. And I was trying to figure out how is this guy, he's my age, how's this, you know, 28 year old buying so many properties so quickly back to back? So I started learning about his process and his insights into the industry. And I thought, man, this guy's got, a peg on this industry. [00:03:25] And of course, during ZIRP, Airbnbs were easy, making money was easy, everybody was doing it. And so I saw this interesting opportunity, decided to partner with this client of mine, and another client actually. And we formed Renjoy together with our own portfolio to start.  [00:03:40] Jason: Nice. Okay. So what is Renjoy?  [00:03:45] Jacob: Yeah, so Renjoy is kind of an unintended consequence. [00:03:48] It was not our plan. It's a short term rental property management business. But when we first started the company, it was just to manage our own portfolios. And people started asking us to manage theirs because short term rentals and long term rentals are complex and difficult and a lot of work. And so owners are constantly looking to handover management for these things. [00:04:09] Jason: Yeah. And that can be a challenge. You know, with those short term rentals. I mean, everything has to move quick, right? You're having to check and adjust prices every day to make sure you're getting the, you know, the best rate possible. You need to communicate like immediately all the time with all the guests and then, you know, then like you're trying to figure out how to make sure you're getting as many people through this property as possible But not getting it damaged and then maintenance stuff hasn't dealt with like super fast Or people get really frustrated and upset and so it's a difficult game and then for you know for people managing short term rentals It's almost like a cleaning talent acquisition business more than it is a property management business And so, how does Renjoy help with this stuff? [00:05:02] Jacob: Yeah. Yeah. There's so many ways we can go with this, Jason. A lot of what you were saying, you know, resonates with me. I think there's an increased complexity on the stakeholder relationships that we have as a manager. All property managers have this complexity where they have their tenant who is a stakeholder. [00:05:18] They need a tenant to pay rent. And they also need to have properties with which to have a tenant pay rent on. And so all of the property managers have this balance they have to walk between these stakeholders. They have to serve their tenants and they have to serve their landlords, their property owners. We're the same, but one of the challenges is our tenants leave us reviews. [00:05:38] Every single time they stay and so there's this increased out of, shall we say, accountability almost on how we manage our relationship with this key stakeholder, the guests that are coming to the properties, the tenants, but also the owners too. And then this all leads to the same challenges all property managers have, which is balancing meeting your tenant's requests for service, for maintenance, kind of meeting their expectations while also keeping costs as low as possible and trying to meet the owner's expectations. And you have to constantly balance that when you're thinking about maintenance and your service level agreements and how they can get impacted by the occupant versus the owner. [00:06:16] So that's one thing that's really complex. But there's a lot of things we can get into with short term rentals. We are a full service short term rental management company. This is another pretty big distinction between long term rental property managers and short term is that the suite of services provided varies quite a bit from one short term rental manager to another. [00:06:36] Not to say that long term rental managers are all the same, but generally speaking, there's a pretty similar core group of services that all long term property managers provide for their clients.  [00:06:47] Jason: Got it. So, Is Renjoy a service that those that listening that are running a property management business are you their competitor or is there a way that they can work with you or how does that work? [00:07:00] Jacob: Great question. I do not believe we're competitors. We don't do long term rental property management and we refer out for that. And so we actually kind of have a lot of good relationships with our property managers, mutual referring relationships, actually, in the markets in which we serve.  [00:07:16] Jason: So what you're saying is long term residential property managers, if they're not wanting to deal with the complexity of short term property management, is there a way they can sort of partner with you and maybe get paid? [00:07:28] Jacob: Absolutely. Yeah. We have a referral program. And for everybody who signs a contract with us, it's a thousand bucks. Easy peasy. And if the property manager happens to also be a practicing broker, we actually do work to execute exclusive right to lists in our property management agreements, which is assignable. [00:07:46] And so we just assign, should that client that you've referred to us choose to list their property, we can actually reassign that exclusive right to list back to you as the property manager slash broker.  [00:07:56] Jason: Got it. Okay. So that's an additional benefit. They can keep the real estate deals.  [00:08:00] Jacob: That's right.  [00:08:01] Jason: Got it. [00:08:03] Okay. So for those that are investors listening and, you know, we have a lot of property managers and they should be investors as well if they believe in real estate investing, right. And they're servicing people doing it. So they're probably investors as well. If their primary focus is longterm residential management, but they're wanting to, you know, get a couple of short term properties in their market, but they don't want to do short term management. And they're buying these properties. Why should they choose you to do it instead of having the side job or why do investors tend to choose you instead of doing it themselves? [00:08:38] Jacob: Yeah. That's a good question. In general, actually, Jason, what I would say is if you are depending on your life and what all you have going on in your life, generally speaking, I recommend folks who are buying their first Airbnb to run it themselves because there's just a lot of things you need to learn and understand. [00:08:55] And I actually would say the same thing about long term rentals. I would say you as the homeowner or the property owner should try to manage it yourself. Because then you understand the challenges that, you know, your property manager might face and you know what to look for in a good property manager. [00:09:09] Same thing applies for short term rental management as well. So if your listeners are looking at acquiring their first one, my recommendation is do it first of all. And then second of all, learn the ropes, do it yourself, understand the challenges and the complexities, and then go and shop around for a manager because it's expensive to switch. [00:09:28] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. So my wife and I, we got a short term rental so that we can do client events at it and stuff like this. And, and so we'll bring clients in and we'll use that and then in the like in between we'll just we'll use short term rental it and send it out for other people to use right and so, but even with this one property like to make this to manage it well, we've got a whole suite of tools in order to like make this efficient and, you know, sarah my wife she runs it and she went through a whole university and a course and like all this stuff to like, learn how, learn the game and learn how to do photos different than typical real estate photos and like all this stuff. [00:10:11] And so, you know, to figure everything out to get this working and it's working really well, but. It just seems like a lot. It seems like a lot of stuff. So what competitive advantage do you feel like Renjoy like affords over people that eventually they figure out how to do all this stuff. They've got all these tools, but it still takes a bunch of time and they don't want to do it. [00:10:30] Jacob: Yeah, I know. That's right. It is actually very complex. It's also not static. One of the things that's different about short term rentals is that it's constantly changing. For acquiring the guests, meeting the demand out there, capturing the existing demand for short term lodging, you have to be on top of your game. [00:10:47] You can't just do the same thing you've been doing. In fact, we see quite a few property owners now who are kind of getting off that ZIRP high, you know, 2020, 2021, 2022, when people were spending like crazy, and now their properties aren't cash flowing very well. They're not capturing the demand that's in their market nearly as well because the game has changed. [00:11:04] They're saying, Hey, I'm doing everything the same I did before, but my revenue is going down. I don't understand why.  [00:11:10] The reality is, you have to compete you're competing with actually folks like us who have this professionalization of the industry, which I think is going on right now in short term rentals. [00:11:20] And one of the big challenges with an individual owner operator is not only do you have to message your guests promptly, you have to make sure they check in, check out okay. You have to check for damages after the stay, you have to organize the cleaning, you have to organize the house or the maintenance, you have to do all that. [00:11:35] But on top of that, the big thing that I see people miss is that you have to be on your pricing every day. I mean, you have to not just use algorithmic based pricing with some of these tools like Price Labs or Wheelhouse or something like that. You have to be doing it every day. And when you're looking at your pricing every day, you can't just look at your property. [00:11:53] You have to compare it to all your comp sets and see, hey, who's booked on these, you know, next 10 days and at what rates and where do I sit in that comp set and what do I need to do to my prices today to capture the existing demand before somebody else in my comp set captures that, that guest or that demand. [00:12:11] And it's very hands on. And so one of the big advantages of a property manager like us is we have, you know, two people full time looking at pricing for every property.  [00:12:20] Jason: So, and how many properties do you guys over right now?  [00:12:24] Jacob: We manage about 165.  [00:12:27] Jason: Yeah. And so with 165, you, two people are able to handle all the pricing checks and updates on a daily basis. [00:12:34] Jacob: That's right. Because not every property is unique, right? We have comp sets. So if you have Let's say 15 two bedroom, one bath units that are all, let's say, basements or, you know, attached ADUs, and they're all in the same geographical area, we could do a lot of pricing at the same time for all 15 of those units because we're trying to capture that segment of the demand. [00:12:56] Jason: Got it. Got it. Okay. So, so for those that are listening, they're managing short term rentals. And maybe they're not doing that, that one missing piece very effectively. What would you recommend that they do?  [00:13:11] Jacob: You have to, I mean, I think you have to do that, right? I mean, big part of the value proposition of a property manager for short term rentals. [00:13:18] This is key for all your listeners who are thinking about buying a short term rental too. Short term rental property managers are expensive. And so, you want to ensure whichever manager you choose to hire is going to exceed or excel or expand beyond what you might otherwise earn in revenue to offset that cost. [00:13:35] And so, if there's a property manager out there doing short term rentals and they don't have a sophisticated pricing strategy, I would say your value proposition is very weak because you're going to charge, you know, a large percentage of commission on what's already coming in without necessarily increasing the amount of revenue coming in to offset that cost for your property owners. [00:13:53] And I think you're going to end up in a tight spot when your owners aren't making enough money. And another manager can increase or boost their earnings. So I would say get on it. There's no reason not to. There's a lot of access to global talent who knows how to do this kind of stuff. So it's not a lack of talent or even that they're terribly expensive. [00:14:11] You can get a pretty good program implemented. Okay.  [00:14:15] Jason: Well then let's allow you to poison the well a little bit against any of your competitors. So let's talk about then what, how do you find and vet a good short term rental management company? I mean, everybody, when they hear what I do, if I'm at a cocktail party or an event or anything, I hear people all the time. [00:14:34] Oh, I had some rental properties, but man, it was a nightmare. And I got rid of them. And I'm like, maybe you should've just got a property manager, but in short term, like if they're not cash flowing, or it's not making money, or it's not working out it could sometimes be the property manager. [00:14:50] Especially based on what you're saying. So what would be the biggest initial filter? Would it be that? Would it be, Hey, how often are you checking the pricing on the property? And what's your pricing strategy?  [00:14:59] Jacob: You know, it's tough because you can, you know, with anybody, they can tell you whatever they want. [00:15:03] You have to like verify. And so I would always say there are a lot of like basic ground rules, questions similar to what you're saying, Jason, where, Hey, tell me about your pricing strategy. Tell me about how you will price my property. Tell me about how you'll handle work orders when things come up. Like tell me about your communication strategy with guests. [00:15:22] Tell me about your philosophy on refunding for issues or how you handle cancellations or how do you handle damages? Like all of these like key components, you'll weed out a lot of crummy property managers that way. Actually, if you just go through, Hey, here's the 15 core things you got to do just to be a worthwhile candidate for property management for me. Here's the 15 main things, but to go beyond that's when you have to start doing things like show me your Airbnb account that has all your reviews and going through that list and pick, you know, out of the last three months, find a bunch of reviews and ask them to explain what happened on those poor reviews. [00:15:59] Hey, this guest said this thing happened. What all what happened on your end? And just literally do your due diligence on guest reviews to see how the guest stakeholders are impacted by this manager. And then furthermore, try to find another owner. There's kind of a reputation game here where you need to understand, Hey, has this owner been with you a long time? [00:16:19] Why are they with you? Are they happy with you? Have they considered transitioning to another manager? Kind of a lot of stuff you would expect. And it is a lot of due diligence, I will say, but I think it has a very large impact on the performance of your property.  [00:16:32] Jason: Yeah, no, I think that's significant. [00:16:35] So you've kind of built a platform for your business, correct? With Renjoy. And so tell us a little bit about that. How is that unique? Maybe some others listening might get inspired if they're doing short term management, but explain how what kind of your, maybe that's your competitive advantage. [00:16:55] Jacob: I would say it is. And this actually, I think Jason would apply for all of your audience, even long term rental property managers. One of the things that we've been thinking really carefully about with our business as we're growing is who owns our data our property data, our guest data, our owner data, like where's that data being held. [00:17:16] And if it's being held by a third party, like our property management software provider, in our case, guesty, in your case, you know, at folio or whatever, when you think carefully about where that data is going, you have to ask yourself, am I okay with this third party data provider being the one who's going to initiate, you know, improvements to how we interact with our data? [00:17:39] Am I okay with them developing all those features and all that kind of stuff? Or do I want to have control over that based off of my needs and what I see in the market?  [00:17:46] Jason: Yeah.  [00:17:47] Jacob: And I'm not saying this is for everybody, but because we are more, I would say, tech focused and tech forward as a company, we've decided to keep that data in house. [00:17:56] And so, we use a third party tool called Airtable. I'm sure some of your audience members will be familiar with this tool. All right.  [00:18:02] Jason: Airtable geek.  [00:18:03] Jacob: Oh yeah, we love it.  [00:18:04] Jason: We run our business off of it.  [00:18:05] Jacob: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. We do too. And so, we use our property management software because you need it. [00:18:12] Right. We use it to handle our reservation data, all the calendars kind of, it's where we actually push all of our listings to market them to acquire the guests and all of our reservation data flows through there as well. But it all flows from our property management software tool into airtable. And some of it flows back and forth. But what it allows us to do is we can pull in all of our work orders from another software. We can pull in all of our accounting from another software. We can pull in whatever kind of data we want into Airtable. And we can relate the data in ways that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do, if you're using a single tool. [00:18:46] For example, Guesty, our property management software has work orders in it. It has review management in it. It has accounting in it. It has everything in it. But the problem is If you use the full suite of services within your main software provider, your property management software provider, typically, each of those ancillary services are not best in class. [00:19:08] And so, you're constrained on what you can do with the tool that you have. And we very much want to be constrained with, you know, our own kind of creativity and our own ability to create efficiency in our business  [00:19:20] Jason: It's kind of like you've got a swiss army knife or one of those multi tools, and it's not the same as having a toolbox of high quality. [00:19:28] Jacob: That's exactly right. Yeah, but it's complicated and it's costly I mean you have to be able to have like specific specialized tools. You then have to know what you're doing to accumulate those tools and have them all talking and speaking to each other, but if you do it right, very powerful. [00:19:44] Jason: Got it. Okay. So, and you're using guest CSPM software and then you've paired it up sort of with Airtable, it's feeding data into Airtable and then because you have it in Airtable, you're able to probably notice patterns more, run reports with the data. You then can create automations and things that happen from, you know, Airtable, maybe, are you using Zapier? [00:20:08] Jacob: Oh, of course. Yeah. We use Zapier and make as well for certain things. We also do have a little bit of Python scripting, but that's, it's very powerful.  [00:20:17] Jason: That's getting really nerdy.  [00:20:19] Jacob: So yeah, it's not me. Let's put it that way. It's not me doing it.  [00:20:23] Jason: Right.  [00:20:24] Jacob: But let me give you an example, Jason, of how these things work together and are really powerful. [00:20:28] So we have a lot of our housekeepers are actually in house now. They're W 2s. They're paid hourly. One of the big challenges is You can't have a manager inspect every single turnover. I mean, we've had like 72 cleans in a single day on Labor Day weekend. So there's no way you can cost effectively have somebody inspect every single clean. [00:20:49] Like it's just not possible.  [00:20:51] Jason: Right.  [00:20:51] Jacob: And so how do you hold cleaners accountable? How do you actually rank them? How do you know whether they're doing a good job or not? Other than after the fact, the next guest says, "Hey, this place is terrible."  [00:21:00] Jason: Right.  [00:21:01] Jacob: What we actually do is we do that. When the review is generated. [00:21:05] From a guest stay. Okay, now if that review mentions any kind of cleanliness issue or whatever, the review is an object in Airtable, then gets linked to the person, that is the cleaner, who is also in Airtable, and we can say, hey, who cleaned before this review? And we can actually tag that review and tie it to the cleaner, the person, and we can rank them. [00:21:26] And so we can say this person has an overall ranking of 4. 9 out of 5 on their cleanings over the last however many cleans. We can actually go back and look at every single turnover they did and what was the guest report afterwards. And by that, we can eliminate cleaners who are not doing a good job. [00:21:43] Anybody below 4. 9, you just eliminate and then you refill that pipeline. And Yeah, by having that connection, it's really powerful. That accountability happens way faster. That's what you're trying to do. If you're trying to speed it up,  [00:21:55] Jason: right? Because you have the data, you've got the timestamp of the review. [00:21:59] You can then check who was the cleaner before this review and, you know, and. You know, figure that out and then you can link to the cleaner and then you've got a database of all your cleaners I'm sure in air table and all the cleaners in Airtable. You've got these Cross links to all their reviews that are affiliated with them And then you've got a rating that you can see and so each cleaner is rated in your system yeah. [00:22:24] Yeah, so you're connecting the reviews to the cleaners  [00:22:27] So you with that data you're able to make much faster decisions as to whether, and it's not just like, you know, the really noisy, greasy, squeaky wheels that you're kind of paying attention to. Wow. This cleaner is really horrible. Who did this? [00:22:42] You know, you're able to just look at it almost like a spreadsheet and see, all right, these cleaners are performing at the top. These are not so much. We're going to send more work to these ones, maybe less than these ones are gone.  [00:22:53] Jacob: Yeah, that's right. You gamify it too. They enjoy it. I mean, it's a little bit of a friendly competition too. [00:22:58] Cause what we do is we display with a dashboard. Hey, who are the top 10 cleaners this month? Or like, it's actually live dashboard. So like, Hey, who are the top 10 cleaners? You know, we have 35 or 40 cleaners. And so, you know, if you're not on the top 10, you know, you're not on the top 10, but those who are on the top 10 are constantly competing with each other to be the best. [00:23:17] And there's a lot of shuffling going on. So yeah,  [00:23:20] Jason: I love that. That's great.  [00:23:22] Jacob: That's just one example. There's a lot of things where if you own the data, you can connect it and gain insights in ways you would not otherwise gain from a lot of tools because the people who build the software are not managing property. [00:23:35] So, they don't know what you're trying to understand about your property. They just say, Oh, you need accounting? Here's some accounting. It's like, well, but they don't understand the complexities around trust accounting and how I'm spending money on behalf of the owner. So, they don't make it easy for me to send and receive invoices within their accounting software. [00:23:50] I have to do that outside. Then I have to reconcile it with their trust accounting module. It's like, they just don't understand what you're doing. And so, their tools are often pretty, pretty weak.  [00:23:59] Jason: Okay, cool. Yeah, I love Airtable, man. We geek out on it. We use it for our client success database. We use it for our planning system. [00:24:09] We built DoorGrowOS in it. We built our applicant tracking system and hiring system in it. And built a bunch of stuff in it. So if you're a property manager and you're using Airtable, then let me know, like reach out to me. I'd be curious to see what kind of things other property managers are doing in order to you know, leverage Airtable. [00:24:30] And how they're using this in their business. I know there's some out there doing it. I've seen it in some of the groups and they're leveraging Airtable to keep track of things. So. All right airtable is really cool. Basically for those that aren't familiar with Airtable, it on the surface, it looks like a Google sheet sort of, but the difference is It's beyond just spreadsheets. It's a database software and really it's now considered no code software because to have software, you need input, you need data storage, and then you need output and so you can build in air table forms or things to entry under data or you can even connect it to zapier or other automation softwares or tools to feed data into it so you have input and then you have data storage and you can build really complicated databases of stuff where things are cross linked and then based on that then you can create dashboards or extensions or output or feed data to other systems based on that data. [00:25:32] And so, yeah, so there's some really cool stuff that you can do with Airtable. So, yeah, so give me another example of something cool that you do in Airtable that you think is may be relevant to property managers.  [00:25:44] Jacob: Yeah, we actually incorporated our CRM into Airtable and the main reason for that is because Oh,  [00:25:52] Jason: Airtable is your CRM? [00:25:54] Yeah.  [00:25:55] Okay, got it.  [00:25:57] Jacob: There are some limitations with it, of course, but because we're not doing like mass, we're not doing like really mass marketing, we have really good lists. So we're not targeting like a ton of people because it's very B2B.  [00:26:07] Jason: Yeah.  [00:26:07] Jacob: And we don't necessarily want everybody short term rental. [00:26:09] Like we're very particular on which properties we want to manage. So anyway, one of the benefits of it is when you're going through the sales process, right? A lot of that process is discovery of property data. Not just owner data, owner problems, whatever. It's also property data. And so, we noticed this huge inefficiency in a lot of sales processes where the salespeople learn all about the property, they get them signed, and then they hand them off and they don't communicate all of the things that they learned about the property. [00:26:38] And then you have to relearn and the owner's like, I already told you this. Like, now I have to tell you about this furnace again, and this AC unit again, and this hot water heater, and this thing about the backyard, and this thing about the sprinkler. This thing about the neighbor, this thing about the, like, there's just on and on. [00:26:49] It's a lot of work for the owner. And so what we've done is we've built that data intake to your whole point about what software is for that data intake that the sales person is collecting through the whole process gets built into the system. So that when that lead converts, that opportunity converts into a client. [00:27:07] All of that data goes straight into the property data, and the onboarding team just has to fill in the gaps. And so it really smooths the transition of data from sales to operations.  [00:27:18] Jason: Yeah we sync and merge our CRM, our sales CRM, which is our tool for communication and our text, email, phone, everything fees through our CRM with our existing clients with perspective clients, all that, but we have it sync to our client success database for our existing clients that are in our mastermind and our coaching programs. [00:27:42] And it feeds data across. So for example, we'd like to track how many doors our clients have. We have them complete a weekly check in form. The air table and they're providing their monthly revenue, their door counts. We capture this data and we use this to build what we call proof bombs later that are like visual testimonials that people can absorb seconds, which is an idea I learned from Sharran Srivatsaa, which is the CEO of real and brilliant guy and he taught this to Alex Hormozi. [00:28:13] Alex Hormozi used it in his book launch. As they're showing all these people getting results And so we have the data to prove that our clients are getting results over time and we can show the time period so it just feels more credible. And that data syncs over to our crm and updates their door count updates these things So when we're talking with them in the crm We can communicate with them. [00:28:36] And so we've we're always geeking out and optimizing our system, our client success database, everything so that we can better take care of our clients. Like we have a photo of every client's face in our database. We can learn who they are and know who they are and know their names. So when they show up, Recognize them and yeah, so we stalk them a little bit to get a photo or we capture their face on one of the Zoom calls that they show up on or something, but my team are responsible to make sure Every client has we have a photo. [00:29:06] We have the name. We know their current door count. We know what they're working on and and then yeah, we've got some other really cool things that we've done recently as well so we're always improving this and. Because our key system we run our entire business on is called DoorGrow OS. [00:29:21] It's a planning system that we've built out in Airtable. We coach clients on how to do this as well. And it really, I believe, is our greatest competitive advantage.  [00:29:30] Jacob: So do you, like, white label an Airtable instance for those clients?  [00:29:33] Jason: So what we do with our clients is we have an enterprise Airtable account and then we give them, we create or duplicate some of our proprietary Airtables that we built for clients and give them access to these. [00:29:47] Jacob: I think this is brilliant. I actually think if there's any property managers out there who are thinking about this, the value that Jason's offering actually through pre building or pre packaging an Airtable setup on how your processes should flow accordingly. That's actually extremely valuable. It's fascinating that you're doing that, Jason, because we've been thinking about it ourselves for a short time. [00:30:07] Jason: So we never really built the process system, because we partner with Flussos, another company that has this brilliant flowchart process software,  [00:30:16] Because I think there's three levels of process I've talked about, but the level one is process documentation, which is really shitty because people don't really read processes. [00:30:26] It's like the owner's manual in the glove box of your car, right? Then there's the next level is checklist and that's okay. We've used process street stuff like that in the past. Some will use lead simple. Checklist has its own inherent flaws that the more complicated the process the more only one person understands how to change it or edit it or make it work and then there's like the next the third level which is is visual workflow and this is where everybody understands it and they're clear on it. So visual workflow, what that's done is it's allowed me the nerd to not have to do processes anymore. My team all understand them. They can see them and they can be crazy complicated because it's like playing with flow chart, Visio. [00:31:06] And that's where the processes are built. So that's been a game changer for us, but everything else, like our planning system, and our hiring system, this is where I think Airtable really magically shines because we can custom tailor their hiring system for particular needs. Like we have a client who's adding like 114 doors in like, like a month or two, or like he's just has this ridiculous. [00:31:30] And so his biggest constraint is hiring maintenance technicians. And he lost two he had four. So now he's down. He was down to two He got on a call with me and he was using our DoorGrow ats our applicant tracking system and we talked with him about cloning the application form reducing it to get more maintenance text to flow through, reducing the difficulty and then giving them working interviews and my coaching for him was you need to be probably hiring four techs a month and firing two or three. [00:32:01] That's right. That's exactly right. Which is very different. And so I explained to him, I was like, you are no longer property management business because your business now, your biggest constraint, your business now is, and you need to swallow this pill that your business now is a maintenance talent acquisition company. [00:32:19] And once he's like owns that, then he'll move on to another level boss in the video game of business, you know, but that's the business he's in now. It was originally, it was like, Oh, we're in the business of trying to get clients. And then he was in the business of trying to deal with getting on clients. [00:32:34] And now it's maintenance, right, technician. And hiring and keeping that going. So just like short-term rentals is largely a game of cleaning, and hiring. Yeah. No, I mean, we have a recruiter managing cleaners.  [00:32:48] Jacob: Yeah. We have a full-time recruiter. I mean, yeah, we have a constant pipeline of cleaners. Same with maintenance techs. [00:32:53] I mean, yeah, it is. It is. And you have to be shedding them, just like you shed property owners too sometimes.  [00:32:59] Jason: Yeah, we also built a rental property analysis tool that our clients use with real estate agents in air table We had some programmers do some custom coding to do some of the more complex formulas that you can't do an air table like amortization schedules and stuff like this And so they're able to create these really cool one page reports for a rental property that are branded with their branding and have their pricing built into it as a property manager, that they can get the real estate agents that are working with investors, they're working on deals, or trying to attract investors, that they can then put on their rental listings to show how that property could either cashflow or in the long run would be a better investment than maybe investing in the stock market. [00:33:41] Jacob: So it's a great idea. We do something similar. Again, part of our sales process is we, when a lead converts to an opportunity, we basically have this template pro forma that gets generated from fields within air table, but it's a Google sheet template. So it allows us to do more is what we want in the Google sheet because it's not just a single page. [00:34:00] It's, you know, there's quite a few pages because short term rentals are very complex in terms of setting them up. Your setup costs, your startup costs are quite large and having a reliable, accurate number for startup costs is actually remarkably difficult. With Airbnb, so similar process, you end up with kind of the same result. [00:34:18] Here's an accurate projection.  [00:34:20] Jason: Awesome. Well, cool. Well, maybe we'll have to hang out off out and geek out on some air table stuff. So, but yeah, this has been our competitive advantage. Largely is our planning system and cadence of annual planning, quarterly planning, monthly planning, and have a database where it's all late cross linked. [00:34:37] And so we In our system team members, and clients that use this their team members show up and there's we're keeping track of all the wins. So there's this culture of winning and Nobody wants to show up getting a red no on their weekly commitments. They're getting they want to get a green Yes, and so this is outside of our daily tactical stuff, this is our strategic goals. [00:35:00] And so it gets my entire team focused on innovation on moving towards goals and outcomes moving forward instead of just their daily tactical work, which we're using DoorGrow Flow or Flussos that visual workflow tool. And so that's allowed us to I think that's our strongest competitive advantage is that [00:35:19] other businesses, usually the entrepreneur comes in, throws out a bunch of goals and ideas and it's like a pulling the pin on a grenade. If they get back from a conference to their team and their team trying to do their tactical daily work and they're like, how are we going to do all this? And there's no real plan or clarity and they rarely achieve any of their goals or outcomes that they're aiming for. [00:35:41] And we, on a weekly basis, our goal is we have sometimes four somewhere between 30 to 50 commitments between everyone on my executive team And they've committed to that week that are going towards our 30 day goals And we get at least our goal is to hit 80 percent and we do that with consistency. Now, years and 80 percent of our goals. [00:36:03] And which means our 30 day goals are largely almost always achieved. And which means our quarterly goals are almost always achieved and annually hit our goals. And so we move really fast. We get a lot of stuff done and we innovate a lot in our coaching business. And I don't think there's. And I work with some of the best coaches in the industry. [00:36:23] So we've really built something. I think that's pretty amazing. And we just, we roll out new things like every month. And that innovation has, that system has allowed it us to innovate. And I'm the way we've set up DoorGrow OS and Sarah runs this, my, she's our operator and my wife, she's always like, we vote on things. [00:36:43] We get feedback on things. And she's like, not you, Jason, you're last. Like I'm always last to speak. So I don't end up as the emperor with no clothes in my own business. So anyway, yeah, Airtable is pretty cool. So, yeah, that'd be interesting to see if there's some other ways in which our clients could leverage or use Airtable for keeping track of their own clients because that's not something we played around much with, but.  [00:37:06] Jacob: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.  [00:37:08] Jason: Cool. Well, Jacob, for those that are interested in getting their property managed by you, what, which markets do you cover and how do they get ahold?  [00:37:18] Jacob: Yeah. So we do have full service management in Colorado, kind of, Southern Colorado, so South of Denver, Colorado Springs, and then further West. [00:37:27] And we also manage in Gulf coast, Florida between Tampa Bay and Fort Myers. So, we're in these two geographic areas for full service, but going back to the pricing thing, we've realized that there are a lot of property owners who love the hospitality side of the Airbnbs, but not the pricing side. That's not why they got into it. [00:37:46] We actually do have a pricing service. Where we market and distribute your listing on a bunch of different booking channels. So a lot of people are seeing your listing and we do the daily pricing for your property. So you don't have to do that. And then you do the cleaning, the maintenance, and the interaction with the guests. [00:38:03] You take care of the property. It's your account. They're your reviews. They're your guests. We don't interact with them. And that is global, a global service.  [00:38:11] Jason: Oh, so that's a service that property managers could use, self managers could use. Yep. Okay. Yeah. Great. In fact,  [00:38:17] Jacob: we do have some small property managers using it. [00:38:19] .  [00:38:19] Jason: Alright, cool. So, how does that work?  [00:38:23] Jacob: Yeah, so it really depends on the client. Like with a property manager and some property managers are for their own portfolios. Some, you know, are managing for others. It really depends on the property situation and the setup that's currently in place. But the most common thing is there's an owner operator who says, Hey, I don't want to do the pricing. [00:38:40] I'm getting crushed by my competitors because I'm not doing this algorithmic based pricing and I'm not reviewing it daily. So we come in and we say, okay, great. I see you're on Airbnb or I see you're on VRBO or I see you're just on Airbnb and VRBO. What we do is we come in and we create a bunch more booking channels for you and we aggregate it into a white labeled property management software. [00:39:00] It's not guesty actually. It's a different software tool. So the owner only has one place to go for their calendar, for their messaging. It's all in one place. They don't have to do anything. And then we create those listings and then we market them and then we continue to price them on an ongoing basis and to reset their prices. [00:39:16] to compete whichever market they're in.  [00:39:18] Jason: Got it. And is this a fairly affordable service? It is.  [00:39:22] Jacob: Yes, it's very low cost compared to full service short term rental management. And it also doesn't have any, like, contracts or anything. It's just day to day.  [00:39:29] Jason: Okay, devil's advocate, what if, some listening might be like, well, why would I trust them to price my property when they might have properties in my market? [00:39:38] Like, if they're in a market that you're in, like Colorado, what if they're going to Price there's better or more competitively than my own.  [00:39:45] Jacob: That's a great question. Yeah. No, it's a great question. And actually it's related to kind of one of the things that we set out strategically for our market. [00:39:53] Like Colorado Springs, we manage about 120 properties in Colorado Springs out of about 3000 Airbnbs. And we kind of set our market cap at about, or sorry, as large, our market saturation at about 200 units in the Springs. So, we actually won't go above managing 200 properties in Colorado Springs for this very reason. [00:40:10] The cannibalizing of market share. Now, that gets even more detailed where it's not just properties total, but also comp sets. So, if we have more than, let's say, 10 percent of the two bedroom properties in Colorado Springs, we're going to start cannibalizing our own market. And so, we actually have limits on the sizes of properties within our specific markets. [00:40:30] So, right now we actually are pretty, we're pretty darn close to being capped out at one bedrooms and two bedrooms. So, we don't really take on those units anymore.  [00:40:38] Jason: Got it. Just 10 bedrooms now.  [00:40:41] Jacob: Yeah, that's right. 3, 4, 5, 6. We don't have any 10s. We have a 9, but that's the biggest.  [00:40:48] Jason: Yeah. You're not in some giant family reunion markets? [00:40:52] Jacob: No, we are. We're in Two Springs. I mean, that place sleeps, I'm talking to a lady now. She's got a place that sleeps 60. So, that'll be That would be a family reunion for sure.  [00:41:02] Jason: Well, cool. So that sounds like an interesting service. Maybe I'll have Sarah check it out. So, cause I know she's checking the pricing every day. [00:41:09] I think she kind of enjoys it though.  [00:41:11] Jacob: Yeah, that's totally fine. Yeah. If you enjoy it, then we are not, you know, like it's for people who is like pulling teeth, right? Like I hate doing this. I don't, or I'm not like really into the whole game theory around pricing. Like that doesn't interest me. That kind of thing. [00:41:25] Jason: Yeah. I mean, yeah, it'd be interesting to have her do a demo with you guys and see how it compares to what she's doing and whether she would trust it or not. Yeah. That'd be interesting. I mean, she's checking  [00:41:35] Jacob: it every day, Jason, she's probably doing, you know, she's already like 85 percent of the way there. [00:41:40] Yeah.  [00:41:41] Jason: Yeah. I don't know, but I think it's interesting. There's you know, there's a lot of property managers that do short term rentals that they're not doing anything like this. And they just not, and they basically set it sort of at a rate that's similar and maybe occasionally they'll adjust it, but they're trying to just let it happen and yeah. [00:42:02] And then the owners get frustrated because they're like, why isn't this renting out as often? Or, you know, it's renting out a lot, but why am I not getting paid very much? You know?  [00:42:11] Jacob: Yeah. It's this passive versus active approach, right? I always tell owners like, Hey, there's two kinds of demands. There's existing demand for short term lodging. [00:42:20] These are people who are coming to your market no matter what. They're already coming, now they're looking for lodging. But there's a second kind of demand that's really important, which is the generated demand. These are people who aren't coming to your market and wouldn't otherwise come to your market if you hadn't reached out to them first. [00:42:34] So you're generating demand by marketing, essentially. And so we have a pretty sophisticated system for marketing to very specific or very likely customers to then book and come and stay because of your property that they wouldn't otherwise have come. And so that's a really big distinction with a lot of property managers. [00:42:52] They just look at existing demand and try to capture their share of existing demand versus generating net new demand. So as an example of how we do this. We require our owners to have our tech package in their property. And part of what is included in that tech package is a commercial wifi router system. [00:43:10] So every guest, not just the one who books the property, but every guest who comes to the property and wants to access the internet has to give us their phone and email. And so we build a massive database for marketing towards for guests, direct guest marketing.  [00:43:23] Jason: Wow. Okay.  [00:43:24] Jacob: A lot of managers don't do that. [00:43:26] Jason: So, the managers out there that would, these pieces, they don't even enjoy doing it. Like the advanced pricing service. And maybe there's some other little things you can help them with as well. They can reach out to you and get this and you said you mentioned white label does that mean they're able to still maintain their brand and people aren't in your business name. [00:43:46] And yeah.  [00:43:46] Jacob: Yeah, absolutely  [00:43:48] Jason: Okay, very cool. Yeah, cool. Anything else you'd like to share before we wrap up?  [00:43:54] Jacob: The only thing I want to share with all the property managers out there is keep on doing the hard work. For those who are outside the industry, they don't understand the challenge of the beat down that can be property management. So just keep it up and do the good work that it is. [00:44:07] Jason: Yeah, it can be challenging. Well, All right. Thanks for Somebody jump on I don't know who that was All right. Thanks for hanging out with us until next time everybody to you know until next time to our mutual growth if you're interested in getting connected with Jacob. How do they reach you? [00:44:24] Jacob: Just go to www. renjoy. com and just fill out a form and you'll get ahold of me.  [00:44:30] Jason: Okay. Awesome. Well then, if reach out to them and then if you are interested in growing your property management business and scaling it and getting some support in how to reach out and attract more owners to do third party management, check doorgrow. [00:44:46] com and make sure to join our free Facebook group at doorgrowclub. com. All right. Thanks, Jacob. And bye everyone. Thanks, Jason. Bye  [00:44:53] Jacob: everyone. Bye. [00:44:54] Jason: you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:45:21] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.  

Owning a business of any kind impacts your life and relationships. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts talk about marriage, relationships, and how these things correlate with having a property management business. You'll Learn [02:03] Owning a business impacts your relationships [07:45] You have to be selfish sometimes [11:10] Why people pleasing is harmful [14:13] Masculine and Feminine frames [24:51] Leveling up in business and your relationships Tweetables “In business, you don't want to be the needy, pleasy guy running a property management business, trying to please every tenant, trying to please every business owner.” “I think as a business owner, you, there is part of you that has to be selfish and you have to be comfortable with being selfish because there is a time and a place for it.” “If you do not take care of yourself, you are not going to have energy to then continue to take care of other people.” “Ironically, the more you are trying to please somebody,  the less they value you.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: In business, you don't want to be the needy, pleasy guy running a property management business, trying to please every tenant, trying to please every business owner.  [00:00:08] Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you're interested in growing in business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. [00:00:29] DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS. Build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts property management growth experts, Jason and Sarah Hull the owners of DoorGrow.  [00:01:11] Now Let's get into the show.  [00:01:14] All right, so today's topic, we're going to chat a little bit about marriage. So let's talk about it. We're going to tell a little bit about marriage. Those that have followed my journey over the years have probably seen that I've been divorced. I've gone through struggles in marriage. I've learned things the hard way. Some of y'all probably been married forever like my parents. I have amazing parents and they were a great example of just loving each other from the beginning forever. [00:01:44] They've been married for, I don't know, like 50 years or something.  [00:01:48] Sarah: Almost. 49.  [00:01:50] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. I think  [00:01:52] Sarah: this year is going to be 47. So they're like going to be 50.  [00:01:55] Jason: I think they got married two years before they had me. So yeah.  [00:01:58] Sarah: They celebrate it though, but they're still in Australia.  [00:02:01] Jason: Yeah. So my parents, they just love each other. [00:02:03] But one of the things that I think it's been coming up a lot, I've been noticing a lot of clients as I go deeper with them and they kind of open up especially the guys like relationships are a struggle. It's a challenge. I think it's difficult. It can be difficult for entrepreneurs. I think it's difficult for the women entrepreneurs because in a lot of ways you have to kind of step into sort of a masculine frame to run a business. And that creates an interesting dynamic in a relationship. And this is in general. Some women out there, maybe you don't want a masculine guy. Maybe you don't want a guy that leads. Maybe you don't want a guy that initiates stuff. Maybe you don't want to be able to let your hair down after work and like have him kind of take the reins and like plan something and take you on a date. I think a lot of women do. A lot of women appreciate that. Even the ones that are running businesses and showing up in a masculine sort of frame and being kind of dominant in leadership and displaying these things, they would like to have somebody else take the lead. Is this accurate do you think or no?  [00:03:03] Sarah: Yeah, well. You think it's different.  [00:03:05] Jason: You've run your own business. [00:03:06] You've been kind of in that frame.  [00:03:08] Sarah: I'm a very masculine woman.  [00:03:11] Jason: Yeah, in some ways I think you've consistently since we've been together.  [00:03:15] Sarah: I look very feminine. I do it's deceiving. Yeah.  [00:03:19] Jason: Yeah, I think since we've been together, you've consistently stepped more and more into your feminine and I've stepped more and more into my masculine I think has kind of been a trend. [00:03:29] Would you say that's accurate?  [00:03:30] Sarah: It could be. I don't know. I think you've probably more recently been focused on that. I can't say, I really cannot say, oh, I've ever been focused on.  [00:03:41] Jason: I don't think you've been focused on it. I just think.  [00:03:44] Sarah: I'm just living life.  [00:03:45] Jason: Yeah, you're just living life and this is the thing. [00:03:48] Sarah: I'm just going about shit, doing my thing.  [00:03:50] Jason: She's not as conscious of it probably because I think this is something that men, if you are the leader and leading, you should be conscious of this. And women, when men are kind of taking that leadership role, women respond to that, and it's natural. Like, I've noticed it in Sarah, she's not even probably super aware of it, but there's behaviors and things that have kind of shifted. [00:04:15] And so, the way it'll show up for a woman in this, in a relationship like that, as a man stepping more into leadership and into his masculine role, she will generally, over time, feel calmer. There'll be probably less fights, probably less explosions, you know, things like this. And the guy will be like letting go of some of the needy, whiny, pleasy, weak behavior that's kind of gross to women. [00:04:39] Does this sound accurate?  [00:04:40] Sarah: That is, yeah, that is gross.  [00:04:42] Jason: Yeah.  [00:04:42] Sarah: To me, anyway, I cannot speak for all women.  [00:04:45] Jason: Yeah.  [00:04:45] Sarah: To me, it's gross.  [00:04:47] Jason: Ironically, when women are showing up kind of more in a masculine frame, they sometimes bring that out in guys. Like the guys think, Oh no, there's a problem. I got to please more. [00:04:57] And so it kind of creates this weird, gross spiral in relationship. And so, which I've experienced in past relationships. Right. And so the man needs to kind of. shift and lead out of that. And so I've been noticing this in clients. And so, this is something that I've been paying a lot of attention to. [00:05:14] A lot of guys show up in a feminine frame because we've been raised by our moms. Maybe you had a loving mom. She took care of you. Maybe she didn't. And she wasn't really a great mom, maybe but either way, that feminine influence towards pleasing has a strong impact on the male psyche, which puts us into kind of a growing up with kind of a feminine frame. If we don't have a really strong sort of masculine walled stoic father, you know, and there's really great book I would recommend for men that want to kind of eliminate that feminine frame that they're carrying around. [00:05:49] It's called shattering the feminine frame by Jerr, J E R R. It's really hard to find, so you may have to search for it on Google, because if you search for it on Amazon, even though it's there, Amazon won't let you see it. I don't know why. It's super weird. You may not be able to find it. Sometimes searches on some of the books by Jerr don't show up when I search for them. [00:06:11] His main book that he puts out there, I can find, and then I have to go to the author, click on the author name, and then find his other books to find some of these books. I don't, it's really weird, but you might be able to find it through Google.  [00:06:23] Sarah: Maybe it's just you. It could be just you. It'd be an interesting test. [00:06:27] Maybe everybody else, even though.  [00:06:30] Jason: I bought multiple copies of the book and sent them to guys. So Jason gets blocked on everything. He gets himself blocked. I'm a little controversial. I get shadow banned all the time. It was something. I was definitely shadow banned on Twitter. My accounts aren't working, your whole Instagram account. [00:06:45] I have a political account on Instagram that's totally blocked and shut down. Like, I log into it, it blocks everything. I can't do anything. I can't even go to settings to, like, request help to support. Nothing. So, yeah. So, which probably might be why I can't find which probably means my ideas are actually correct. [00:07:04] So since we live in a world of control and censorship nowadays, all right, so that aside, so I think you know, to kill that needy sort of pleasing behavior, I think guys, this is really important. And it's important in business too, because in business, you don't want to be the needy, pleasy guy running a property management business, trying to please every tenant, trying to please every business owner. [00:07:30] And that was something you were very good at not doing in your property management  [00:07:34] Sarah: business. I don't give a shit about that at all. I [00:07:37] Jason: think you're like, what do I want my business to look like? How do I want to show? Yeah. Yeah.  [00:07:42] Sarah: Right. And I think it's, It, part of it is very selfish. And I think as a business owner, you, there is part of you that has to be selfish and you have to be comfortable with being selfish because there is a time and a place for it. [00:07:54] Now I am not sitting here telling you, be only selfish and only think about yourself all the time. No matter what, prioritize you and forget everything else, right? That is not what I'm saying, but there is a time and a place to be selfish and to really think about you. And if you think about it this way, there's a lot of people, like one of my, one of my very good friends in Pennsylvania she will just give and give and give and give to everybody. [00:08:21] She worries about her kids and she worries about her friends and she worries about her family and she worries about, it's like, she's like, so giving and like, I mean, she would literally give you the coat off of her back in the middle of winter if you needed it. I have watched her do it. And that is great. [00:08:42] However, if you do not take care of yourself, you are not going to have energy to then continue to take care of other people. And I tell her that all the time because she's just in this constant exhaustion. Like now it's manifesting physically. Now she's had like, she had health issues. She had like a heart problem. [00:09:02] She had all kinds of issues and it's because she's not prioritizing herself. She will go to do something for herself, but then something else pops up and needs her attention. And she's like, Oh, well, I can't worry about me. Now, I have to worry about this other thing. So there is a time and a place to be selfish, and you must take care of yourself first in order to then serve and take care of other people. [00:09:22] It's like, put on your own oxygen mask before helping other people. Because if you die trying to help your family, well now your family doesn't have you. When you could have just put on your own oxygen mask first. Yes? So there is a time and a place to be selfish. I think in my later years, especially after my, like, my divorce when I was, what was I, 28? [00:09:48] Yeah, I was 28. So, 28, I flipped my entire life upside down. All of it. Everything. I pretty much scrapped it all. Anything that wasn't serving me, anything that was toxic, anything that wasn't good for me, anything that didn't make me feel happy or bring me joy or make me feel loved and cared for, I said, fuck it. [00:10:10] Gone. Gone. So I cut off relationships with my biological father. I ended my marriage. I cut off a lot of friendships. I quit my job. I did all kinds of things. I was like, yeah, this isn't working like, and that was the end of it. But that was very much about, that was for me. I did that for me. [00:10:30] And up until that point, I wasn't really living for me. Yes, I was concerned about myself. I was always trying to take care of myself. But I was also always worried, Oh, well, who needs this? And who needs that? And, oh, you know, this person, you know, is kind of, it's always like in the back of your brain. [00:10:48] And after, after that, I made that change and that after that point was when I started my business, when I started my business, I'm glad that I didn't do this before I had that shift in my life because when I started my business, number one has to be me. If the business makes me miserable, then I'm doing something wrong. [00:11:07] So why do it like that?  [00:11:10] Jason: A lot of people are miserable in their businesses. They like, we see a lot of them. That's why a lot of people come to us. We can turn that around. Ironically, the more you are trying to please somebody, the less they value you. And so if you're like just bending over backwards trying to please tenants, they're going to treat you even more and more like garbage because you're showcasing and demonstrating in your language your behavior everything, "I'm low value." [00:11:37] I'm a doormat. Walk all over me. You might do that with owners. You might be displaying, Hey, I'm low value. I'm available whenever you need me. Your time is so much more important than my time. Interrupt me anytime. Here's my cell phone number. Right? And so by displaying that you're low value, you actually end up being treated worse and being perceived as worse. [00:11:58] And people respect business owners that are leaders and then are able to display strong behavior that they can lean into and that they can trust. You need to have a stronger frame or a more masculine frame if you are the leader of a business. Otherwise, people are not going to really trust, respect, or feel safe with you. [00:12:18] And so I think that Also, when we're in relationship and we're with somebody and I think that this is probably more true of women, a lot of women might throw me some shade for saying this, but as guys, I don't know what the major difference is. Maybe it's testosterone levels, whatever. Maybe it's just in our DNA, but we do not grow up feeling fear. [00:12:41] We just, we don't generally feel afraid of a whole lot of things. Like, most guys would never even think, like, am I safe if I go walk out on the street? Unless they're in a really shitty area, you know? But if I go out for a walk, I'm not concerned about my safety at all. I could roll down my windows and take a nap in my car, parked by the side of the road, and wouldn't even worry. [00:13:03] Women, I didn't realize this until later years, but women from.  [00:13:08] Sarah: Even going like for a walk by myself, no way, I'm taking my pitbull, like  [00:13:12] Jason: Yes.  [00:13:13] Sarah: Or I'm carrying.  [00:13:15] Jason: Right. Or some combination.  [00:13:18] Sarah: Something. There's no, there's no chance. Yeah,  [00:13:21] Jason: I mean even if I'm out of town, for example You'd like you get a little bit more concerned about things and your safety and stuff like that, right? [00:13:30] Sarah: See, I'm the type of person I'm like, I want like a fortress. I want like reinforced concrete like five inch, you know, like, maybe even 11 inch thick, like, walls, I want, like, a moat, I also like some sharks that we don't feed, like, ever, and then, you know, somebody might accidentally fall down. [00:13:49] I've been getting in, like, this is how I'm like, that would make me feel safe. I want like bulletproof glass. Give me the Cybertruck glass just everywhere. Like, that's like, this is what I need. I need like laser beams, like you see in museums. Like motion sensor laser beams that trigger like the SWAT team. [00:14:06] That's what I need, but I've watched way too many horror movies, admittedly, way too many for my own good.  [00:14:13] Jason: So regardless of your gender, masculine and feminine energy is always at play. And, Feminine energy generally is not going to feel safe without masculine energy nearby. [00:14:24] That's just generally how it works. Masculine energy creates that protection and safety. This will be true of your clients. So you'll need to show up somewhat in a masculine frame so that your clients can feel safe. feel safe with you. And that's what they want to buy. They don't want to buy property management, but they want to buy a safety and certainty. [00:14:40] They want to buy peace of mind. And so that certainty that you can display is more of a masculine energy or masculine frame. This is true of women that are in relationships. If they're not getting that from the man that they're with or around them, That sort of masculine frame, they're going to become, a lot of times, they become more nervous, more neurotic. [00:14:59] They're more concerned about things and more fearful. And especially if they have to then step into the masculine frame to take care of the guy that they're with because he's even more needy and pleasy and whatever and feminine than she is, then it's like, it creates this gross sort of I'm your mother type of dynamic, right? [00:15:17] And you don't want to be my mother, right? You don't want to be cleaning up after me and telling me what to do all the time.  [00:15:22] Sarah: I don't want to be anybody's mom.  [00:15:24] Jason: Yeah, exactly.  [00:15:24] Sarah: I am not cut out to be a mom, let's be honest. I'm just not, I'm just not good. Like my mom is the best mom in the world and then like, how do I measure up to that? [00:15:34] Like I can't compete with that.  [00:15:35] Jason: Well, I don't think it's a competition.  [00:15:37] Sarah: Everything is a competition.  [00:15:39] Jason: It's not really. [00:15:39] Sarah: You know nothing about me.  [00:15:41] Jason: It's not really competition. You don't need to compete with your mom, but you can take, you know, some of the good that you've got from her and the stuff that you don't want to apply or we learn from our parents. [00:15:51] We don't want to be like. We don't have to take that. Right. So, you know, I guess the takeaway from this episode maybe is men, check out that book, like step into a little bit more masculine role in your relationships, your wife will be calmer, she'll be more loving, you will definitely get more respect and you'll get more sex if you're showing up in a masculine frame. And it's your responsibility. Stop trying to change her. Stop trying to get her to be something different. Stop wishing she was nicer to you. Stop trying to focus on I need love and I need to please her and do things like that like Show up in a confident leadership position, like plan stuff, plan dates. [00:16:35] We're going on a date this weekend, right? We went on a date last weekend.  [00:16:40] Sarah: Round two.  [00:16:40] Jason: I messed up last weekend. I planned a date. I was so excited and took her out to eat. We went to go to where the date was, we were supposed to go watch a show. And it was closed, like, there was nothing there. And I was like, what? [00:16:54] And I checked and I had the date wrong. I had the date wrong. So what did I do as a leader? I found another date. So I quickly booked tickets, found tickets to a comedy show that was right there, downtown Austin. And then we went to that and we had a good time, right?  [00:17:08] Sarah: Well, that was when I rescued the bird. [00:17:09] Jason: Yes.  [00:17:10] Sarah: So here, let's talk about this. This is how crazy my life is. Jump out of a moving car because my husband wouldn't stop the car.  [00:17:16] Jason: Let's, let me explain this. I'm driving into a parking lot, there is a bird that has landed on my hood and it's just staying on there so I'm like, this is weird and I'm turning into a parking structure and I was barely moving. [00:17:30] I was slowed down or you would have hurt yourself but I'm like, she's like, I'm going to get out and I'm going to take care of the bird and because it had jumped off. And I was like, No.  [00:17:37] Sarah: It didn't. It tried to fly, like, it was on the hood. And it tried to fly a little bit and it, like, barely cleared, like, the roof of the car and I went, Jason, that bird is injured, I'm telling you, it's injured and he's like, okay. [00:17:51] And I'm like, stop the car, and he's like, what? I'm like, no, stop the car. I was like, I am not stopping the car. Yeah, he's like, I'm not stopping.  [00:17:57] Jason: There were, like, homeless people on the street, like, right outside there. Yeah, I know. Ghettos, they probably were all high on drugs, like, it was not a great area. [00:18:06] And she jumps out of the car and I have to then find a parking space because there's nowhere to park and I had to go up seven floors in this parking structure. I'm like, my wife is probably going to be dead by now, right? So I eventually get to the top floor, then I come down, I'm, like, so anxious because I'm, like, I need to protect this woman from her crazy bird saving, like, whatever. [00:18:27] Sarah: And actually, I had this dress on. And my high heels, and I'm running around trying to, like, scoop up. I'm like, it's okay, try to scoop the bird. And the bird, like, it can't really fly. It flew a little bit for, like, a couple feet, and then it, like, sank back down. And I'm like, oh no, it's injured. So I'm, like, chasing the bird, and the bird, like, hops around. [00:18:45] Like, it comes out of the parking garage, and it hops around to the corner. I don't know what's back there. So I'm just following, I'm like, come here, bird. And there's a man in the corner. who I can only think, my guess is, like, coke, I don't know. I don't know what he's doing, it's, I don't know, crack, whatever crack is, it's probably that. [00:19:03] So, I don't know, I'm not a drug expert, I've never been in narcotics, I don't know. But he's, like, in the corner and he's, like, doing, I was, like, okay, I'm just going to, like, not look at what's happening, cause I don't care, I'm just, Hi, I'm just getting the bird, I'm, like, don't, like, sorry don't mind me. [00:19:19] And yeah, he didn't like that. But I did get the bird, and then I didn't know what to do with the bird. So I have the bird now, I'm like, oh, what do I do now? So I was going to walk back to my husband and tell him to get in the car.  [00:19:33] Jason: Yeah, we were seven floors up. You had no idea where I was.  [00:19:36] Sarah: No, I didn't. I was just going to walk around until I found you. [00:19:39] But I had the bird in my hands. And I was going to go back to my husband and then say, like, I guess we have to figure out what to do with this bird. We have a bird now. But this woman, she was on the street and she's like, Oh, hi. She was like, excuse me, do you need help? And I said, I don't know. [00:19:54] Can, do you know what to do with an injured bird? And she said, actually, yes I do. And I said, Oh my God, thank God. Because I didn't know what I was going to do with this bird. And she said, Oh, you have to take it to whatever on earth she said. And she's like, I can do that because I guess she works there or something. [00:20:11] So she's like, oh, I'll take it in tomorrow. She's like if you give me the bird So then she had this whole bird probably ate  [00:20:18] Jason: the bird. She's probably some homeless person that ate the bird.  [00:20:21] Sarah: He was not a homeless person. It was a couple.  [00:20:23] Jason: Okay.  [00:20:24] Sarah: There was a couple they had a dog.  [00:20:26] Jason: Okay, meanwhile, I'm coming down an elevator. [00:20:30] It lets me out on the first floor of this parking structure, does not let me into the parking structure. There's no, like, it just exits the building. So I exit the parking building and it locks me out of the building. So I can't even go back in and I'm like trying to find her. I have no idea where she is. [00:20:49] And so I'm calling her and yeah  [00:20:53] we ended up talking, didn't we?  [00:20:54] Sarah: No, I called you.  [00:20:55] Jason: Yeah, you called me.  [00:20:56] Sarah: Then so the lady takes the bird and now I have no bird, which is great and the bird is safe. And now I'm thinking, okay, let me just, I didn't realize it was as tall. I really did not know that the building was that tall. [00:21:08] So I figured, Oh, there's probably like three levels, whatever. I'll just walk around and find the car. It won't be hard. Well, I'm walking around and I'm realizing, Oh, okay. Well, this just keeps going. Yeah. And you  [00:21:18] Jason: were wearing the worst shoes on the planet.  [00:21:19] Sarah: Worst shoes. I was wearing a  [00:21:21] Jason: Okay. Let me explain this. [00:21:23] They can't see your outfit right now. Sarah looks like sex on wheels. Like, her outfit is hot. Like, this is a hot dress. This is like a form fitting store dress. I bought this for her. She looks really good in this. Sorry. And she's wearing these high heels. [00:21:39] She's wearing these high heels like Louboutin, whatever they're called. And they're like, did I buy you those?  [00:21:46] Sarah: That pair? Yes.  [00:21:48] Jason: Okay. Yeah, I bought her these shoes and they're wicked uncomfortable.  [00:21:51] Sarah: They're so uncomfortable.  [00:21:52] Jason: Like whenever she wears them on a date.  [00:21:53] Sarah: Christian Louboutin, I have to say something about him. [00:21:55] He either hates women or he has no idea what women's feet are like.  [00:21:59] Jason: I don't know, but he's laughing. Or both. He's laughing all the way to the bank, whatever. Because they're not cheap. So, she's wearing these shoes that she can't even walk around in. And you're going to, there's no way she's going to go up seven floors of parking. [00:22:12] Sarah: I was on the third floor.  [00:22:14] Jason: Yeah.  [00:22:15] Sarah: Yeah, I got to the third floor and then I realized, oh, okay, so then I called you.  [00:22:19] Jason: Yeah, and then she eventually finds me. We get. You need to go back up to the car because I didn't grab your purse. Because  [00:22:26] Sarah: he left my purse in the car.  [00:22:28] Jason: Because I should have been psychic and known that she needed me to grab her purse. [00:22:32] Right guys. And so we go back up, but he had to let me back into the building because I was locked out and their thing wouldn't work to let me back in with my parking pass thing. So she comes down to the first floor, opens it up, lets me in. We begin in the elevator, we go back up the top floor. [00:22:47] I'm like, what were you thinking? And she's like, what were you thinking? You didn't grab my purse. You left my purse. I'm like, you're way more important than the purse, woman. And you're like going around crazy homeless people and like trying to save a bird.  [00:23:03] Sarah: It was saved.  [00:23:04] Jason: So  [00:23:05] Sarah: It was saved.  [00:23:06] Jason: Okay, good job. You did it. [00:23:08] Good job. You're like  [00:23:09] Sarah: We've been saving lots of animals.  [00:23:11] Jason: I think there's a Bible verse where Jesus says something or God says something about like your life is worth more than many sparrows or something like that. Yeah. So I don't know. Some of you don't know what the verse is.  [00:23:24] Sarah: I must've missed class that day. [00:23:26] Jason: Yeah, exactly. So anyway, we go up to the car, get this, come back down, we exit that same exit down on the first floor and I'm looking around, I'm like, this is not a great area. No, it was not.  [00:23:37] Sarah: It was bad.  [00:23:37] Jason: There's some rough characters and like, they're walking around and like,  [00:23:41] Sarah: bleh. In fact, we went to the comedy club and one of the comedians, he said, so now I have a bully and he's a homeless man and the same homeless man, he like, hangs out right outside the comedy club and he said, I'm here all the time. [00:23:52] And now the homeless man is like harassing me every single time. And he's like, so now I have a bully who's a homeless man. He's like, what do I do about that?  [00:24:01] Jason: Yeah, this is great. This is great. So  [00:24:05] Sarah: yeah.  [00:24:06] Jason: Yeah. So I may be able to keep Sarah safe from her bird rescuing adventures in the future. We'll see.  [00:24:13] Sarah: Stop the car. [00:24:15] When I tell you to stop, just stop the car.  [00:24:16] Jason: You still would have gotten out. I didn't want you to get out. We could have come back.  [00:24:20] Sarah: Oh, no. It could have died in the meantime. What if it went in the street? It tried to go in the street. I had to stop it.  [00:24:27] Jason: All right. I would rather a little bird die than my wife. [00:24:31] Sarah: So that's okay. Yeah. But I don't feel like I feel like there's a third option.  [00:24:36] Jason: Men, you know what I'm thinking right now? You know.  [00:24:40] Sarah: They're like, what is wrong with her?  [00:24:42] Jason: They don't think what's wrong with it. They just go, that's what women do. Like, and yeah, and guys understand. So.  [00:24:49] Sarah: We have to save things. [00:24:51] Jason: Okay, so, should we wrap this up? Anything else we should have? I didn't know we were going into this whole date, but I have a date planned for this weekend. It's the one that I thought had been the previous weekend. So we're, I'm taking her out again, but men plan some dates, show some leadership. Don't wait till she asks you to do things. [00:25:10] Try and Be proactive and find ways to do things before she asks you right. And if she's asked you to do things multiple times, you probably are being a lazy bum. Comfort ease and that's feminine, right? Everybody loves to see a woman in comfort in with her pillows and cushions laying out attractively but guys. They love to see guys at work, like they, man, you do the work. [00:25:34] If you are just sitting around watching football games all day and being a bum, then you are actually in your feminine as a guy and men are men of action. Get some stuff done, do some things, be proactive, improve yourself. So that's all I'll say about that. All right. So yeah. And join our program and get, join our program. [00:25:56] Get a coach like me. That's going to call you out on your BS and help you step into a mass more masculine frame. We will crush it more in business. And I guarantee that you will be getting more respect, more love, more sex, more, all the good stuff. If you show up and if you like show up and be the person you were meant to be. [00:26:16] So, we, I will challenge you to do that. I've worked with relationship coaches. I've got a coach for a marriage coach right now. I've got we've had business coaches like you need to be constantly improving yourself. So, I will make sure that you're doing that if you join our program. All right. [00:26:33] That's it for today, right? All right. Until next time, everybody to our mutual growth. If you would like to be part of the adventure with door, grow, Go to doorgrow. com. Check us out. Book a call with us. We'll find out if we can help you. And if you are wanting to be a little bit more connected to our free community, you can go to doorgrowclub. com and join our free Facebook group. And that's it. Bye everyone. [00:27:01] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:27:27] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Man can learn valuable lessons from man's best friend…  In this episode, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull talk about their passion project of fostering dogs and how business owners can learn about resilience from these adorable rescue pups. You'll Learn [02:56] The story of Chance the dog [11:09] What does this have to do with running a business? [18:39] Jason and Sarah's foster dogs Tweetables “You will look back on this as being such an easy thing for you to deal with in the present moment.” “If you're going to go through tough stuff, it's a lot better to have the right support around you.” “You're going to make mistakes, but that's the price of tuition in business.” “We're all doing the best we can with our current limited capacity and knowledge that we possessed in that moment.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Sarah: If this dog can go through everything that he went through and still push through, whatever is happening in your business, whatever is happening in your life, whatever is happening in your marriage, in your friendships, in your relationships, you can push through it.  [00:00:14] Jason: Yeah, just tell yourself you're not yet at Maynard level. [00:00:17] Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently then you are a DoorGrow property manager. [00:00:35] DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win we're your hosts, property management growth experts, Jason and Sarah Hull, founder, [00:01:16] cOO of DoorGrow. [00:01:18] And now let's get into the show. All right So we were thinking what we should talk about today and one of Sarah's strong passions Is dogs. I think Sarah likes dogs more than people. Is that fair?  [00:01:34] Sarah: That's accurate.  [00:01:35] Jason: Okay, she's an intj. Any of you that are familiar with myers briggs intjs typically like animals more than people. I don't know why, and I like dogs too, so not a fan of cats I'm allergic to them and I think they're smelly. [00:01:51] Sorry, all you cat lovers out there, but I'm more of a dog person. You can see in the background here is. Hey buddy, who's smelling around. This is a dog that we're fostering right now. And the working title for this dog is Hans. That's they give them names, but this is a dog we're fostering and it's such a sweet dog. [00:02:13] And so I wanted, this is a passion of Sarah's. We've been fostering some dogs and we've had, had some difficult times fostering dogs and we've had some good times, you know, let's, should we talk about our first foster?  [00:02:27] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. If that didn't turn us off to fostering...  [00:02:31] it was like worst case scenario, I would say. [00:02:35] Jason: So Sarah's dog, one of our dogs, he's a large dog and he's a Pitbull. American.  [00:02:44] Sarah: He's an American Pitbull. American Pitbull.  [00:02:45] Jason: Terrier. 100%. We got him DNA tested, purebred. And then we have another little mutt that we can talk about that we got.  [00:02:53] Sarah: That we adopted. Well, that one was after the whole Chance thing. [00:02:56] Jason: Yeah, totally. So we decided to, like foster, we brought a dog in and this dog's name was Chance and he was a pit bull. We thought maybe they'd get along but we didn't know Chance's background. We didn't know Chance's history. The previous people made it sound like he was a good dog sort of, but they really, I think we're kind of keeping secrets from us and gave us a bunch of rules. [00:03:21] Like, be careful with other dogs and like separate for a while and we did everything  [00:03:25] Sarah: that's always the rule.  [00:03:26] Jason: Sure.  [00:03:26] Sarah: Careful with other dogs be separate for a while. Slow introductions. Never feed together. That's yeah, those are always the rules. You say that as if that was like a red flag. [00:03:35] That was not a red flag.  [00:03:36] Jason: Okay. [00:03:37] Sarah: They tell you that with every dog.  [00:03:38] Jason: They had to have known that this dog had some violent tendencies or some history. So long story short, this dog bit Sarah. They gaslit us and blamed, it bit her arm. And they were like, "oh, well, there was food involved" or something like this. [00:03:53] We're like, okay, maybe it was us. We'll be more careful. So we still kept the dog. And we had the dog for like a month.  [00:04:00] Sarah: We struggled with that too. Because we really, we, right then and there, we thought, okay. I think we're done. I think he's got to go back. Someone else can foster him. [00:04:08] Yeah. And they kind of talked us into it. Like, "oh, well, can you just hang on to him until I find another place for him to go? Because like, nobody can take him right now."  [00:04:18] Jason: I don't think there's any safe place for them to go. So later. At this point later, it had been a month, we had integrated the dogs, they were hanging out, they're on the couch together, like it didn't seem to be a problem. [00:04:31] It was kind of, but I think really was like a working truce or something. I think this dog had a history of maybe being involved in dog fights, something like this would be my guess. Because some dogs will usually get together. And they'll do a little bit of have a little tiff, but they're not trying to kill each other, right? [00:04:48] They'll, like, bite, they'll do something, they'll give a warning, and they'll be done with it. So, I had come home from a walk, Parker came up to me, I played with him a little bit, he did a little playful sort of growl with a toy or whatever, the other dog gets off the couch. This dog had no expression. He's just headed towards Parker. [00:05:07] Parker saw him and it was like, it was on and saw him coming towards me. And they just locked up and they got into this horrible dog fight. Like, and we have a long entryway into our home, like a big hallway, like entryway that runs kind of all the way to the back of the house almost. [00:05:26] Right. And this was. in our family room towards the back of the house and the fight continued all the way to the front door. Like it was just, it was a disaster. This dog Chance and Parker were fighting and we were trying to break it up. Sarah was on with Parker trying to pull him and I was trying to get Chance off and Sarah, you were freaking out if you don't mind me saying. [00:05:51]  [00:05:51] Sarah: I mean, yeah. Like, rightfully so.  [00:05:54] Jason: Yeah. She's freaking out. And so it, yeah it was interesting. So there's blood everywhere. Blood flying all over the place, dogs are locked up and fighting, biting at each other and so then I, yeah. You know, if I had my gun or knife on me, dog probably would be dead. [00:06:09] I couldn't figure out what else to do. And we weren't going to let him kill our dog. And he was much stronger than Parker. So, we didn't want Parker to die. Right. So, but what I did in that moment is I was like, I had done a little bit of jujitsu training in the past. So I was like, Oh, I'm going to choke him out. [00:06:26] I was trying to, I first tried to lift the legs up. Cause that's what people say. I didn't, that wasn't really a great idea because I lift his back legs up and to try and pull him off. And he just turned and latched onto my leg. He turned really quickly, latched onto my leg, bit my leg through my pants. I have permanent bite mark on my right leg and had latched on my leg. [00:06:49] through my pants and was biting me. Then Parker was coming at him. So he turned back to Parker. And then I use that moment when he came at my leg towards me to get my arm underneath his neck and then to choke him out, just like in martial arts. So I did a blood choke and I figured he's probably got veins going through his neck to his brain, just like all of us humans. [00:07:13] And it choked him out. And then He passed out. I was holding him in my arm and I picked him up and was choking him out because he eventually released Parker and I was choking him out. I'm holding this limp dog in my arm. And then his Parker was latched onto one of his legs or something. And Sarah was like, "what do I do? What do I do? He won't let go!" And I was like, Sarah has a martial arts background, so I figured you knew how to do a choke. So I was like, "choke him out. You got to choke him out!" So she had to grab Parker and get him to release. And and he did. Parker really was trying to protect us. That was obvious. [00:07:52] But Parker was losing, like it wasn't going well for him. Parker, the other dog had some bites on him, but he was okay. But Parker had to go to the hospital. Like he was really messed up. He had to get surgery. His ear was like torn in half. Yeah, his  [00:08:09] Sarah: ear was torn and then he had a chunk ripped out of his neck. [00:08:13] Like the back of his neck. Yeah, it was ugly. Yeah, it was not good.  [00:08:16] Jason: So, while I had Chance in the choke hold and limp, I carried him through the house to the backyard and put him into the backyard. And shut the door so we could just keep them separate. And then, yeah, we were just, I was totally scared of that dog after that. [00:08:33] But that's what we did. And eventually I think we just got him into a crate or something. So he wasn't in the backyard.  [00:08:39] Sarah: Yeah. No, I had to go get him.  [00:08:41] Jason: Yeah.  [00:08:42] Sarah: Into the crate. Because he was like, I don't think he's going to want to see me. I just choked him out. No. No, that's probably a good call. [00:08:48] Jason: He probably wouldn't want to attack me. Yeah. Because I was pretty rough with him. So, that's my adventure in choking out a pit bull. Yeah.  [00:08:58] Sarah: So I think you never really know what you're going to do until you're like in the moment.  [00:09:02] Jason: Yeah.  [00:09:03] Sarah: And then your adrenaline kicks in and sometimes you know what you're going to do or you think you know what you're going to do ahead of time and you find out there's no plan. [00:09:12] There's no plan. And the they do tell you like, oh, lift the dog's hind legs over its head and it will release. Yes, and  [00:09:20] two out of two times it released and then latched on to.  [00:09:25] Jason: Yeah, they don't like that it's being lifted up.  [00:09:27] Sarah: No.  [00:09:27] Jason: So, I mean, that was an interesting moment because I went into tunnel vision. [00:09:31] This is how guys brains work. We're generally singular focused. This is why they send us to war, right? We can just focus on one thing. So I wasn't really particularly traumatized by the event. I mean, it was, but I was like, okay, I'm in mission mode. I'm doing what I need to do with the dog and that's it. [00:09:47] Yeah. And then we got to clean up because there's blood everywhere, all through our home. Yeah, it was like a freaking emergency. Walls, everywhere. It was awful. There's blood everywhere.  [00:09:53] Sarah: Everywhere. And then I was covered in it. Because I was holding  [00:09:57] Jason: Parker and I had a white t shirt and then  [00:09:59] Sarah: when we like I got Parker in the office and Chance was outside because Jason put him out there and Jason looked at me and I'm literally like from here down I was just drenched. [00:10:12] Jason: You were holding Parker and he was the more wounded. Drenched. Yeah. [00:10:15] Sarah: And he's going "oh my god. Oh my god." He's like, "Sarah, there's freaking blood" It's not mine. It's not mine. Like, I'm okay. I lost my pinky nail. That got ripped off. So for a while I had no pinky nail that, that was not fun.  [00:10:27] Jason: Like your actual nail.  [00:10:28] Sarah: Like my actual, everybody says, okay. [00:10:30] Let me clear something up. Everybody says, Oh, those aren't real nails. These are real. These are actually attached to my real nails on my finger. So like underneath you can kind of see,  [00:10:41] Jason: yeah, there's like,  [00:10:42] Sarah: there are real nails here. And then yes, I make them longer, but it's not just a tip. Like if you pull off one of these nails, it is attached to your real nail and your real nail will come off with it. [00:10:55] Jason: You had a flesh pinky, like there was no nail for a while. Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of odd.  [00:11:00] Sarah: Yeah, it was horrible. Yeah that, that was awful.  [00:11:03] Jason: Yeah, and it took a while for my bite mark to heal. So, yeah. So, so that was our first adventure.  [00:11:09] Sarah: Let me pause here and say, cause I know some of you guys are going, "why the freaking hell are they talking about any of this? It sounds awful. And it's like, oh my God, I don't even want to keep listening to the episode." Keep listening. Because I think one of the things that I would say about particularly about this situation that we had to go through is sometimes in life, sometimes also in business, you gotta go through some shit. [00:11:34] And you're going to be in some situations that you definitely did not plan for, that you've never been in before, and that Maybe you don't know what to do, and in the moment, the only thing you can do is whatever comes to your mind, whatever you can think of, and then, it's afterwards, then there's the PTSD, so then you just have to heal from the PTSD, but I also would say it's fair that every entrepreneur has a little PTSD from their business.  [00:12:07] Jason: Yeah, for sure.  [00:12:08] Sarah: Yeah  [00:12:09] Jason: Well, because entrepreneurs we take bigger risks. We get to experience you know issues like cash flow problems or staffing issues or team members that losing faith in us and leaving or team members stealing from us, right? [00:12:24] Sarah: Having to fire somebody.  [00:12:25] Jason: If you're working for a boss you don't generally have to experience a lot of this stuff that you experience as a business owner. We're choosing into a higher level of stress, trauma, difficulty, which is why it's not for everybody when not everybody starts a business. And but yeah, it's important to heal from these things and to level up from these things and learn from these things so that you can get to that next level of capacity to be able to deal with that next level of stress that exists in business. And I tell clients this all the time. [00:12:55] They're currently dealing with some problem they think is so hard and they're at kind of a lower level and I tell them, someday, you will look back on this as being such an easy thing for you to deal with in the present moment, you'll be like, Oh man, I can't believe that was so hard for me then. I'm dealing with such bigger challenges and bigger level, higher level things now. And that's encouraging for them. They're like, Oh, that's good news. They're like, and they know they're like, yeah, someday this will be easy. I'm like, someday, this hiring stuff will be easy. Someday this, you know, process stuff that you're dealing with will be easy. [00:13:29] Because you're going to increase your capacity. You're going to learn, you're going to level up. It's the price of tuition and business. So let me take a quick break. I'm going to share our sponsor for this episode, which is Vendoroo. So if you are dealing with constant stress, the hassle of maintenance coordination, and that's an issue for you, check out Vendoroo. They're your AI driven in house maintenance expert that handles work orders from start to finish, triaging, troubleshooting, vendor selection and coordination. It's built by property managers for property managers to provide cost effective and accountable maintenance operations where every dollar is accounted for and every task is handled with unmatched reliability. [00:14:08] Vendoroo takes care of the details so you can focus on growth. Schedule a demo today at Vendoroo, V E N D O R O O dot AI slash doorGrow and experience maintenance done right. I was actually, we were hanging out with the Vendoroo guys and I was telling them the story. Because we were telling them how we were fostering a dog and we had to get home, you know, from dinner. [00:14:29] And then they were, we somehow shifted in that story and they were just like, so interested. So, but yeah, so if you want to check out DoorGrow. com, we actually just put this up yesterday because we've been fostering and taking care of dogs and our team are really excited about this. I had the idea with one of my team members, we did a secret project. [00:14:51] Yeah, because we knew Sarah would probably like it. So we put up a dog page. So you can see the dogs that we've like, fostered. I don't think we put Chance on the page. Did we? I don't think we put Chance on the page.  [00:15:03] Sarah: No, we didn't. No. Chance was not a great story. But Parker isn't on there either. And Parker is the OG. [00:15:09] Jason: Parker's the OG. We can add Parker.  [00:15:11] Sarah: Parker's like the mascot of everything.  [00:15:14] Jason: So, anyway, check that out right at the top, you'll see a little dog emoji and it says dogs on our website. And you can see, you know, a little bit of the passion we have for helping out dogs. All right. So we told the story of Chance. [00:15:27] And you would think after that we would be done. And I think we were for a little while. It was like, yeah, kind of free, especially for you to like, get past the PTSD of that. You beat yourself up quite a bit about it, which you can be good at times, right?  [00:15:43] Sarah: I'm really, yeah. Yeah. Because on the DISC profile, I'm a DC, so I'm super critical of everything and everyone, including myself. [00:15:54] Yeah.  [00:15:54] So yeah.  [00:15:56] Jason: Which good operators are hard time.  [00:15:58] Sarah: And hard time with that. And I, like I, I internalized a lot of that. I took blame for a lot of that and I had to just kind of work, work my way through that. And it kind of goes back to anytime that you deal with a hard situation, it might be in business or otherwise, you know, you're going to reflect on the situation and some people are really good at externalizing and saying like, none of that was my fault. [00:16:25] You know, I have like no ownership in that whatsoever. Some of people, they take all of the ownership and are really bad at externalizing. So I think you have to kind of find the middle ground. Like what am I responsible for? What am I accountable for? You know, how can I learn? I'm going to learn from that. [00:16:43] And for me it was the, it hands down, it was the scariest moment of my life. Most terrifying moment of my entire life. And I've been in some pretty scary situations back when I did property management. This puts it to shame, absolute shame. But I think it's really just, it's finding the middle ground and figuring out what am I responsible for and how can I learn. [00:17:06] Jason: I think also, I think that some people are kinder to themselves and have more grace for themselves. And I think it's important to remember, like all of us have been through tough stuff and we may beat ourselves up for it, but beating ourselves up doesn't really have any saving power. It doesn't make us better to beat ourselves up. [00:17:26] What we can do though, is we can recognize, you know, in that moment. And based on the decisions we made we were making the best decisions we knew to make at that time And I think you know, we can all afford ourselves a little bit of grace. You're going to make mistakes and screw things up in business. [00:17:41] You're going to fuck up and you're going to make bad choices. I've made some big mistakes like in business. You know, I did a whole episode on my two million dollar mistake or whatever you're going to make mistakes, but that's the price of tuition in business and you keep going. But I think also we need to be willing to afford ourselves some grace and recognize we're all doing the best we can with our current limited capacity and knowledge that we possessed in that moment. [00:18:08] And so if you knew better, you would do better, right? We are definitely going to behave differently having had that lesson with Chance with other dogs, right? We're a little bit more attuned to their behavior. their temperament, like how to integrate them. Like we're paying more attention. [00:18:25] Like we just, we have a different level of awareness and that's what happens in business. If you can move past the trauma and the difficulty and you go right back at it, you pick yourself back up. You dust yourself off. You're going to learn from the experience. So should we talk about some other dogs real quick? [00:18:42] All right. Who else? Well, let's first, let's go to the OG, right? So Parker's my baby. Parker is the best dog I've ever had. And I don't know if there's ever going to be a dog that is better than Parker. I just don't, I said that about my first pit bull and then Parker, I love him so much more than my first pit bull. [00:19:01] . So Parker, I got him 2016, so he's like eight now. And he his mom was a family pet who got out of the yard one day and got herself pregnant. So she went, had a good old time. Her owner found out that she was pregnant and decided to drop her off at the pound because he didn't want a pregnant dog. [00:19:25] Sarah: So, you know, instead of like spay, neuter, that whole thing, he's like, yeah, I'll just take her to the pound.  [00:19:29] Jason: Let's get rid of her.  [00:19:30] Like, while pregnant.  [00:19:32] Sarah: Still going to find you, bud. Like you're out there, I'll get you one day. So dropped her off at the pound. Pregnant dogs should not be at the pound. They will, you know. [00:19:40] Get very sick. So, they moved her to a foster. She had a bunch of puppies and Parker was one of those puppies. So I saved him and he's my baby. He's fiercely loyal and protective of me, even when he probably shouldn't be. Sometimes with Jason, he's protective of me. Like you'll smack my butt, and Parker does not like that.  [00:20:04] Jason: I do smack Sarah's butt butt, everybody. Honest confessions. Husbands, if you are not smacking your wife's butt occasionally, something's wrong. Letting you know. So.  [00:20:15] Sarah: Yeah. But Parker doesn't know. He doesn't know that. He doesn't know it's friendly and playful and loving. No. He knows hitting is bad. [00:20:21] I [00:20:22] Jason: have to do it when he's not nearby.  [00:20:24] Sarah: Yeah. To be fair, I can't hit myself either, so, like, if a bug lands on me or something, I hit myself.  [00:20:30] Jason: Yeah, he starts getting around you and, like, trying to, like, climb on you and, like, protect you from yourself, yeah.  [00:20:36] Sarah: He does.  [00:20:37] Jason: And he'll get, try and get in between us and, like, prevent me from getting near her, yeah. [00:20:41] He does.  [00:20:42] Sarah: He does. So Parker was the first dog that I had ever rescued.  [00:20:45] Jason: He's like a nanny dog.  [00:20:46] Sarah: He is a nanny dog. We call him the nanny dog. He is. And we say, when he's doing his thing, I'm like, oh, he's nanny dogging again. Yeah. So, Parker, we've got Parker. And then after the whole Chance thing, we took a break for about eight months. [00:21:01] And then I thought, okay, well, what if we do a smaller dog? Because after that, Parker was more selective with bigger dogs. Rightfully so. That's his version of PTSD. So I thought, okay, well, maybe a smaller dog could work. And that is where Captain came in. So Captain just for reference, size reference, Parker varies between 80 and 85 pounds. [00:21:24] Jason: Big dog.  [00:21:24] Sarah: Captain is 14, 14 pounds.  [00:21:27] Jason: Yeah, Parker's tall like a lab, but built like a pit bull.  [00:21:30] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, so Captain is only 14 pounds. He's a little baby. He's about  [00:21:36] Jason: tiny  [00:21:37] Sarah: three or four ish He was we got him from a shelter about like an hour and a half away an hour 45 minutes away and Someone had him and his two brothers and decided they were done with him So they shoved them in a crate and they dropped them off at an animal shelter overnight  [00:21:56] Jason: Yeah, because it says you're not allowed to leave animals here. [00:21:59] So they secretly did it in the middle of the night, left the crate there.  [00:22:03] Sarah: On the doorstep. So the staff came in at 7 a. m. and found three dogs shoved in the crate. Huh. Super, super, don't be like these people, be better, okay? So, then him and Parker actually worked really well together and Like Captain just loves Parker so much. [00:22:21] He just loves him so much. Like I take Parker to the chiropractor and Captain stays here. And when I come back with Parker, Captain is way more excited to see Parker than he is to see me. He loves me so much, but he's like, just  [00:22:35] Jason: he's jumping all  [00:22:36] Sarah: over the moon about Parker. So Captain's our second rescue. [00:22:40] Jason: And Captain's, he's kind of a mutt. He, we did a DNA test on him.  [00:22:43] Sarah: Oh, no, he's a he's absolutely a mutt.  [00:22:45] Jason: Yeah, he's got Rat Terrier. He's got...  [00:22:48] Sarah: I think if you could do him in order, probably not.  [00:22:50] Jason: I don't know. Rat Terrier was probably the largest.  [00:22:52] Sarah: Rat Terrier is the largest. What's next? Then American Pit Bull Terrier, which is why he's brindle on the top. [00:22:57] Jason: Oh, yeah.  [00:22:58] Sarah: Huh. Yeah. Okay. Yep. American Pit Bull Terrier. Then Super Mutt.  [00:23:03] Jason: Yeah, that's what the That's a breed. Super Mutt.  [00:23:05] Sarah: I'm like, oh, wow. They call it a Super Mutt. Okay. Okay. It's like 14 percent Super Mutt. Huh. I think. Boston Terrier, Yorkshire Terrier, And then Dachshund, which is what we're told he was. [00:23:19] Jason: Yeah, and he's little. He's really little. He'll get in our face. All the time. Alright, so, next dog.  [00:23:27] Sarah: Yeah, so, we've had Captain for a little over a year now, and then I thought, okay let's foster. We won't adopt another one, but like, we'll foster, we'll, you know, help train it, kinda get it back on its feet, do something good, get it ready for a family. [00:23:42] And that's where Maynard came in.  [00:23:44] Jason: Mmm. Maynard.  [00:23:45] Sarah: That one, that, he's heartbreaking. So if any of you guys had followed us on social media, like, a lot of people I guess were checking in with you, like, how's Maynard? How's Maynard?  [00:23:55] Jason: Yeah it was hard to even look at him and not get emotional. This dog was so emaciated, so starving. [00:24:03] It was a bulldog. They found him in the, in San Antonio, on the street. And this is like in the height of summer. In 104 degree Texas heat, which, if you know anything about bulldogs, they can't breathe because their face is smushed. He was basically a skeleton with fur. If you see pictures or any of our, if you see it, you'll be like, Oh my gosh, like, how's this dog alive? [00:24:27] Yeah, he was covered in like over a hundred ticks. Yeah and he had all sorts of diseases and problems related to that.  [00:24:36] Sarah: Like lesions and wounds. Yeah, he had wounds.  [00:24:38] Jason: Burns it looked like all over his body? [00:24:40] Sarah: He may have hidden under a car that was hot and like burned himself on the hot car trying to find some shade. [00:24:47] Jason: Yeah. [00:24:47] Sarah: And cool himself down. Yeah  [00:24:49] Jason: It's super sad.  [00:24:51] Sarah: This dog was in bad shape. He was 25 pounds and he's supposed to be probably at least 50 or 60.  [00:24:57] Jason: Yeah, they spent And a whole evening trying to pull all the ticks off of him, like they had to give him a blood transfusion or he would have died. Like he was just, he was in bad shape,  [00:25:07] Sarah: He had two tick borne illnesses. [00:25:10] He had pneumonia. He needed a blood transfusion just to survive this. He was obviously severely emaciated and severely dehydrated. And eating, you can't just take a dog like that and shove a bunch of food like Edla, she was like, oh, we could just feed him a lot. And I'm like, you'll kill him. [00:25:29] He'll die. Yeah. So your body, very what happens when you're that far along is muscle atrophy. So your body will eat the muscle. So he had literally no muscle left on him anywhere.  [00:25:42] Jason: He didn't hardly walk  [00:25:42] Sarah: at all.  [00:25:43] Jason: He would just crumple over like he would like, yeah, he would try to walk. [00:25:46] You fall the time, man.  [00:25:47] Sarah: But he would try. He was really like, he tried. You'd think that a dog like this with this many problems would just say like, fuck it, I'm out. Like, I probably would. If I was up for it, I'd be like, alright, just, like, where's the plug? Pull it. Let's do it. But he did not. He did not want to give up. [00:26:04] He did not want to die.  [00:26:06] Jason: We had him for about a week?  [00:26:07] Sarah: We had him for a week. Yeah, we had him for a week.  [00:26:09] Jason: And then, like, he was in bad shape. I don't even think they should have let him come to us, but they didn't know all the stuff that was wrong with them. They  [00:26:15] Sarah: didn't, yeah, they didn't know everything because they didn't do the full like, scan. [00:26:19] Jason: So we had him for a week and took care of him, but we started to notice he was like, he was getting worse. So then we we reached out to the foster organization and then they took Maynard to the doctors and they were, like, he was in bad shape. His whole esophagus had been destroyed so he couldn't, like, move food down. [00:26:38] They've, we've, later they figured out, well, he just needs to sit upright, and like, gravity, and maybe that'll heal over time, I don't know, but he had a whole bunch of issues, but before they figured that out, they were like, this dog is in such bad shape. He's not really getting food down.  [00:26:53] Sarah: He's. Well, they didn't know what exactly. [00:26:54] Yeah, so they were about to put him down. When I brought him back to the vet. So they started doing some tests on him. They said he actually lost weight and I'm like that doesn't make sense. Like he's been with me for a week. He's eaten every day and he wants his food. Like he wants it, desperately wants his food. [00:27:11] And that doesn't, it doesn't make any sense. How did he lose weight? And they're like, I don't know. So then they found out that he had. A very rare parasitic infection that attacked his liver. He has heart disease. His pneumonia has gotten worse. And then they were trying to figure out the whole, why did he lose weight type situation? [00:27:38] And they ended up doing a scan. They did not think he was going to make it. They just, they didn't know. There was so much going on with him. Like issues as long as my arm, the list was as long as my arm and they didn't think he was going to make it. So the president of the organization, she let me know, she's like, I have to make a really tough decision right now. [00:27:59] Jason: And they put a lot of money towards this dog. The whole, like, a lot, thousands of dollars.  [00:28:03] Sarah: It was, I think his treatment was somewhere, All of it was like over like 7, 000 so far.  [00:28:09] Jason: Yeah, they were really doing everything they could to take care of this dog. But she was at the point where she was like, I think we're going to have to... yeah. [00:28:16] Sarah: Oh, and he was anemic on top of all of that. So he couldn't keep heat in.  [00:28:19] Jason: Okay.  [00:28:20] Sarah: Poor guy.  [00:28:20] Jason: So like, they were about to put him down. Right.  [00:28:25] Sarah: Yeah they decided like it doesn't seem like there's anything like he's too like he's just too far gone and The vet came in the room like with the shot and they said all right, let's give him like one last really awesome meal So they gave him mac and cheese and he Scarfed it down like you wouldn't even believe and that whole day and the whole day before he wasn't moving. [00:28:49] He wasn't walking. He wasn't really interested in anything. He was just very lethargic, very tired. He didn't, he did not care. Mac and cheese, he was like, what is that? Give me all of it. Perked right up for the mac and cheese. So the mac and cheese literally saved his life because he was minutes from being put down. [00:29:08] Said that she has never been that close to putting a dog down and then didn't do it.  [00:29:13] Jason: Yeah.  [00:29:14] Yeah, but that gave her hope that, Hey, there's something here. There's some life in him. And he's, You know, he's motivated for some reason.  [00:29:22] Sarah: Yeah. And the vet who was going to euthanize him then, she said, there is something weird with this dog. [00:29:30] Like, it's just, there's something off. We don't know, like, is it okay if we do like the full scan? And she's like, if you think it'll help him, like, if you think that we can figure this out and save him so that he has some quality of life. So  [00:29:45] Jason: because of the mac and cheese, and seeing something that seemed a little bit off, because that like, he was so excited about that and he was eating it, they then did and he perked up, they did the scan and they found what? [00:29:59] Sarah: So in dogs, they call it a mega esophagus. So essentially, his esophagus doesn't work. They think that he may have, back like when he was dumped on the side of the road, and also, I should, we should have said this, he was intact, so we think that he was used for breeding. And then when he got too far along, these fuckers dumped him on the side of the road. [00:30:21] So they're number two on the hit list. I will find them and they're not even far from me. I will go get them. So they dumped him on the side of the road. When he was on the side of the road they think that he either ate something or drank something that was toxic and messed up his whole esophagus. [00:30:38] Yeah. [00:30:39] So that's why he was eating food, but it was all impacted in his esophagus. Hardly any of it was actually getting through to his stomach.  [00:30:47] Jason: Yeah,  [00:30:48] Sarah: so they found that out and Bruni the president of the organization said well wait a second when he was with his fosters like he had a bowel movement So something had to have gotten through like what can we do? [00:30:59] She's like, what if we like prop them up. They have like a little Bailey chair, but they didn't have one there. So they made a makeshift one out of like blankets and cardboard.  [00:31:07] They're like, what if we do like a makeshift Bailey chair, test it for 24 hours, see if any food actually gets through into the stomach because that is a treatable condition. [00:31:17] Now, if they're born with it and then that's really hard. But he wasn't born with it. Something destroyed his esophagus. So they said, oh, that's like, it's a treatable condition. So what if we try this, give him 24 hours, and then he's got to show us that he can get some food and medication down into his stomach because all the medication for all of the problems, it wasn't even getting into his system. [00:31:46] Jason: Medicine, food, nothing was making it.  [00:31:48] Sarah: Nothing. No water. Like he had a couple bowel movements with us. So like Something must have, but not. Not the way he should have been. So after a 24 hour hold, he had a full stomach of food.  [00:32:02] Jason: Yeah, they figured out he just needed gravity. Like they just had to prop him up. [00:32:06] So he's sitting up like a human eating, you know, and he was perfectly happy to eat. Like he was a hungry dog. So then he went to be taken care of full time by the foster organization. Yeah [00:32:18] Sarah: He has multiple medications he has to eat like a very small strict  [00:32:23] Jason: And she has a lot of dogs at her place that she's taking care of so she asked if she had another foster. She said could you take this dog Silver? Yeah So then we got Silver was the next...  [00:32:33] Sarah: oh, wait. The thing I want to say about Maynard is that he had every reason to give up and he had every reason, multiple reasons. [00:32:43] Like he had like literally so many health problems.  [00:32:46] Jason: Yeah. And everybody around him had multiple reasons to give up on him. .  [00:32:48] Sarah: He had every reason to not trust humans and every reason to be like a nasty, vicious dog. And he just wasn't he was not he was so sweet and he loved to like just shove his little smush face into me And just nuzzle it and when it was in there, he still wasn't close enough He was still like pushing trying to get closer Because I think that was the first time he ever experienced love and even though he had every single reason stacked up against him. [00:33:19] Like the odds were not at all in his favor. There's no reason that this dog should technically be alive. It's only because he's so freaking stubborn. He did not want to give up on himself. Even through all of that, even through all of that, he didn't want to give up on himself. So when we were going through all of that, like with him, I was telling people like when I would run my scale calls on Fridays, my our operations call, I was telling people like. [00:33:45] If this dog can go through everything that he went through and still push through whatever is happening in your business, whatever is happening in your life, whatever is happening in your marriage, in your friendships, in your relationships, you can push through it. Because every single time that they thought they had the issue figured out, there were like five more issues that popped up with him. [00:34:08] Jason: Yeah, just tell yourself you're not yet at Maynard level. You can handle it though. He also had a really good support mechanism around him eventually, right? And I think that's also there's a little lesson in that is that you need If you're going to go through tough stuff, it's a lot better to have the right support around you and to have people that believe in you, even when you might feel like giving up, and that, you know, can see that you can be better. [00:34:36] And we need those. We need those people around us. And so if you don't have that in your business, it's probably feeling pretty hard because you're doing, you feel like it's all up to you and you're all on your own. And that's a dumb way to grow business. It just is. All right. Next dog.  [00:34:54] Sarah: Okay. So the medical foster that took Maynard after his second, third ER stint she said, Hey, like I, I cannot take another foster, but I have to take Maynard. [00:35:05] Can you take Silver? And then that gives me room to take Maynard. And I said, so Silver, like this is Austin Bulldog Rescue. They largely work with bulldogs. It's not only bulldogs, but most of them are bulldogs. Silver is not a bulldog. He looks like some sort of terrier. I think he had very terrier fur. But he was little, like 30 pounds. [00:35:28] Very high energy. He was probably like in his teenage phase. They also found him on the side of the road in San Antonio. The sad thing about him, though, is he had like, he was house trained. He had like house manners. So he lived in a house at one point. And Either escaped or was dumped, but he was hanging out with a pack of dogs and the bulldogs He was like, these are my friends and the rescue were saving all the dogs and they were like, okay There's like this other dog like what do we do? [00:35:58] And she's like, well, you can't leave him like come on he's an honorary bulldog now. So so they They fostered him, took him in, and then we had him. We had him for about a week, and he already had some applications coming in on him, and he got rehomed to a family that I think is a great fit for him. [00:36:17] Jason: Yeah.  [00:36:18] Sarah: They're such a good fit.  [00:36:19] Jason: Silver had a lot of energy. Yes. He was like doggy teenager. He had a ton of energy, super excited, loved running around. Yeah. Yeah.  [00:36:30] Sarah: And they're like, we want to go for a walk every day. And we like to go on hikes and we like to go camping and we'll bring the dogs. And I was like, Oh, he would like,  [00:36:37] Jason: he'll love that. [00:36:38] Sarah: He would love that. He would love that. And every dog that Silver saw, he wanted to play with every single one of them. And then they have another dog. So it was just figuring out, are those two going to be nice to each other? And they're great. He was very like respectful of her boundaries, which none of us had seen previous to that. [00:36:57] So that was really good. And they're doing great so far. And then. The woman that adopted him, she sends me pictures of him. Like, she's like, just so you know, he's doing great. I'm like, oh, thank you. Thanks for sending that.  [00:37:09] Jason: All right. Next.  [00:37:11] Sarah: Next is this guy behind me.  [00:37:13] Jason: Yeah.  [00:37:14] Sarah: Baby. [00:37:15] So we wanted to do another foster. Bulldogs are a lot of work, like so much work. And we went to a shelter that's local and we were looking, I was looking online for a dog that was not small, but also not large. So he's like 44 pounds ish. He's  [00:37:37] Jason: got a bit of a cough right now.  [00:37:39] Sarah: Yeah, he had kennel cough. [00:37:41] So we're. working on clearing that up with him and they don't know a whole lot about him. They found him as a stray in Round Rock but that's also so sad because he's so sweet and like he's house trained and he's got manners and I'm like, oh, Jason keeps saying he's like this somebody's like some family's dog like they must be missing their dog and I'm like, it was in the shelter for over a month. [00:38:06] So yeah, like Parker goes missing. I'm not sleeping until I find him.  [00:38:11] Jason: Sure. [00:38:11] Sarah: You know, I would there would be a bolo out on it everything like I would call the SWAT team like Everybody would be involved. So now we are fostering Hans and We're looking for a forever family for him. Although we might foster fail and keep them ourselves. [00:38:30] We'll see but we're That's what it called. It's foster fail.  [00:38:33] Jason: Oh. Yeah. This one's hard to not  [00:38:37] Sarah: The first day we got him, the two kids and Jason were already pushing me. They're like, we could just keep him.  [00:38:44] Jason: He's a special dog.  [00:38:45] Sarah: It didn't take long. They're like, we could just, and I thought I was going to be the one who was weak. [00:38:49] I thought I was going to be the one who says like, oh, we should keep him. Like, let's just keep him.  [00:38:54] Jason: Yeah.  [00:38:55] Sarah: And shockingly enough, I was the one that was like, yes, but like, we're fostering so we can help more dogs. And the three of them, they're like, but we can just keep him. He's so perfect. Aren't you perfect? [00:39:07] So if he gets along with our other two, then. I think we might keep them. We'll see. See what happens. So. All right. So there's our dog story. That's the current. That's what Jason wanted to talk about dog thing  [00:39:20] Jason: today. So, you know, gives you a little glimpse into, I guess, what? Our personal lives a little bit. [00:39:27] Some of the things that Sarah cares about that we care about. And yeah, so. Dogs. So if you like dogs, then maybe you enjoyed this episode and maybe you learned something. I don't know. All right. Well, I think that's it for today. Until next time to our mutual growth, everybody, if you're wanting to grow your property management business, you can use some extra support, then reach out to us. [00:39:50] You can check us out at doorgrow. com and be sure to join our free Facebook group. If you are a property management business owner or planning on starting a property management business in the near future, go to doorgrowclub.Com and join our free community and that's it. Bye everybody. [00:40:09] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:40:35] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

In the world of entrepreneurship, there is a lot of conflicting advice on how to make it and become successful.  Property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull recently came back from a masterminding event. In this episode, they sit down to debrief and share how humility, hospitality, and transparency can be more effective than trying to be “cool.” You'll Learn [01:10] Masterminding with fellow entrepreneurs [04:04] Humility as a business owner/visionary  [10:41] Example of hospitality and care [15:37] Humility comes from being grateful  Tweetables “Transparency kills the cool vibes, but creates followers like you wouldn't believe.” “By building that goodwill out in front of you, it helps everything in the business go better.” “I think really humility is born or created out of gratitude and being grateful.” “It's not all you. And because it's not all you,  that doesn't mean you're not great. It just means that part of what makes you great is that you're able to work with others.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: It's not all you. Other people believe in you. Other people are supporting you. With others and with God you can do amazing and great things.  [00:00:09] Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow, property manager. DoorGrow property managers, love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management growth experts, Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow. [00:01:07] Now, let's get into the show.  [00:01:10] All right. So we were talking about what we should talk about this morning, and we recently just got back from a mastermind event. We're in a mastermind with some kind of a mastermind put on by coaches, I guess for coaches. Is that accurate?  [00:01:27] Sarah: It's not only for coaches. [00:01:28] It's a mix of entrepreneurs that do different things. A lot of them do happen to be coaches, but not all of them are coaches. There's like the people that run the like the tree house Airbnb's and I was like, that's not a tree house. That's really cool.  [00:01:44] Jason: Yeah.  [00:01:44] Sarah: So there's people like that. [00:01:46] He's also, I guess, a musician. He's like a rock star. I learned that this time. So there's a mix of people. Some of them happen to be coaches and some of them are not, they're just entrepreneurs, but these are high level entrepreneurs that are focused on investing in themselves and learning and growing and being better all the time. [00:02:07] Jason: Okay.  [00:02:08] Sarah: So quarterly, we meet, we go out to Tennessee, which is where one of the hosts live. So it's like right outside of Nashville, which to me is like a second home. Like I just, I love it there so much. And it was a really great event. I mean, it's always a really great event. I don't think we've ever gone and then said, oh, that wasn't so great. [00:02:33] It's good every time. Because you never know, and this is what I personally like about it, is you don't know what you're going to get out of it all the time ahead of time. So sometimes, you know, if there's like an event or a conference or something like that, and they go, Oh, and we're going to talk about this one topic. [00:02:51] Well, what if I don't need this one topic? So what I like is I don't know what people are going to share. I don't know what the topics are going to be ahead of time. So we always get something out of it. And we rarely know what that will be.  [00:03:08] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. It was really helpful. And you know, the two gentlemen leading This particular mastermind that we're in, we're in several different things, but this particular one is Sharran Srivatsaa. He's the CEO of Real which is a multi billion dollar real estate company and Aaron Stokes runs a multi million dollar coaching business, coaching auto repair shops called Shop Fix Academy. So it's really cool to hang out with both of them and they're just really wise, lots of insight, great people, you know, and they attract great people around them. So it's just a high caliber group. There's kind of a, at least from Aaron Stokes' side, a very Christian sort of focus. [00:03:51] But Sharran also a very moral person. I don't know. He doesn't seem to focus on that as much, but it's not a religious thing, you know, but we're learning from these two men that have really strong values and really care about the people that they serve. [00:04:04] So I think one of the biggest things that stood out to me was the conversation that they had that related to just who we are. As a coach, I thought was really interesting, and I can touch on that a little bit.  [00:04:21] So I think for me that the thing that I really liked is, one of the phrases I wrote down, I take a bunch of notes. And one of the notes I wrote down is "boastful people are exposing their insecurity. Honor is positive things being said behind my back." [00:04:37] And "hospitality builds goodwill out in front of you" and "master the ability to have confrontational conversations." So there's kind of a conversation a lot about hiring and team, but I really enjoyed the conversation about you know, this idea that when we try to look cool in front of other people, we're not being as transparent and transparency kills the cool vibes. [00:04:58] So we don't maybe look as cool, but he said it creates followers. Like you wouldn't believe. You know, increase trust. And so I think in the past I was very much focused on trying to look cool. And it was, it definitely was born out of insecurity. And it was like, I need to appear great at all times. I need to look like a leader because I just felt maybe insecure. [00:05:23] I wasn't really confident in my ability to perform or to do stuff. Sarah's giving me the nudge to stay further back. So, I'm not too close to the camera.  [00:05:34] Sarah: On what episode does Jason remember to stay behind a lot. I need to put like a... [00:05:39] Jason: I want to get in your faces! Get excited! All right.  [00:05:42] Sarah: What episode does that happen? [00:05:45] I've got a hundred dollars on none of them.  [00:05:47] Jason: Yeah, i'm going to stay back here. Okay, so Yeah, so in the past I was very focused on that and it was kind of a blind spot I had I didn't realize that I was trying to be cool, but part of it was you know, I had some insecurity that i'd never even had a property management business yet somehow, I ended up coaching hundreds of property management business owners. [00:06:08] So there was a bit of imposter syndrome and there was a bit of insecurity and it took coaches to prompt me and push me to like, Hey, you should make some changes to this industry. You can benefit people because I cared, but I was like, it should be somebody else. And so maybe somebody that has thousands of doors or something like that. [00:06:28] And, you know, I did a lot of things trying to look cool, trying to look cool online and stuff like that. And and maybe it's just that I'm getting old I don't know, or maybe I'm getting wiser or I'm learning, but you know, some of the things I've been through recently in life, I'm like, I'm less and less attached that I need to look cool or interesting or special or something, or to try and get some people that perceive me as important. [00:06:54] And I think it's because I'm starting to just value myself more. Right. And And so, you know, transparency kills the cool vibes, but creates followers like you wouldn't believe. So that's, that was one of the key things that stood out to me. So, I,  [00:07:10] Sarah: on that note, something that he was talking a lot about and he's, he has said this before. [00:07:15] It wasn't like, this is not the first time I've heard him say this. And in fact, we've asked him specifically about like some of our events. Like, what can we do to just like blow this thing up? Like, we want to have a conference with like, you know, a hundred people there, 250, 500, a thousand at some point. [00:07:33] So like, how do we do that, Aaron? And, you know, Like the conferences he runs and he did not start large at all. He had 19 people at his first conference and then 19 people at a second conference. So we have more than that, but it's not hundreds yet. And now he's at the thousands. Thousands, multiple thousands of people. [00:07:57] So I had asked him, we were like in our little like van and Jason and I were sitting in the front row and he was driving. So I peeked up and I was like, I think Jason asked him about events and I said, okay, but Aaron, before you answer, I was like, what did you do when you were our size? [00:08:15] Because him telling me what he does now doesn't help me. I don't have a million dollar budget for a conference. Like I wish I did. At some point I might. I don't. I can't pay freaking Jay Leto $500, 000 to come and speak. Like not unless we're going to go bankrupt. So it doesn't work. But the one thing that he talked about, I think he just said it differently or maybe it hit differently this time is like the hospitality aspect of it.  [00:08:46] Jason: Yeah.  [00:08:47] Sarah: Like, don't just run an event and have people like show up and do whatever. It's like, if you were attending this event, what would you want it to look like from start to finish? So this coming DoorGrow Live in 2025, which we're already starting to plan, it's going to be very different. [00:09:04] Like all of our events that we do, any in person events, whether they're small or large, they're going to be very different. So we're going to incorporate some like fun, cool things into it. I mean, we live in Austin. Like there are so many fun, cool things here. We don't, there is no lack. So we can build some of that into. [00:09:24] Our events and give a like a much better experience overall, and that I think will help actually create more connections and networking. amongst the people. So that's, that was something that I kind of on that note. It just hit me different this time, you know?  [00:09:44] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. I like it. Aaron puts a lot of focus in his events hospitality for his auto repair shop owners. [00:09:51] Yeah. So, let's take a quick time out to go over our sponsors here. So, if you are tired of the constant stress and hassle of maintenance coordination, meet Vendoroo, your AI driven in house maintenance expert that handles work orders from start to finish, triaging, troubleshooting, vendor selection, and coordination. Built by property managers for property managers to provide cost effective and accountable maintenance operations, where every dollar is accounted for and every task is handled with unmatched reliability. Vendoroo takes care of the details. So you can focus on growth, schedule a demo today at Vendoroo V E N D O R O O dot AI slash DoorGrow and experience maintenance done right. And we've got clients getting some great results with them. We just got to hang out with them here in Austin. [00:10:43] Yeah. Came out for a conference or event and we went out to dinner and they're great guys. Like there's a lot of fun. They're great.  [00:10:50] Sarah: And you know what I liked? Yeah. When I, when we met up with him, so oddly enough, we were also running a very small event that day. Yeah, we were. And one of the people who attended the event was new with Vendoroo. [00:11:02] Yeah. We're trying to figure out, there was like a gap somewhere in like their portal or the system or something. And he had our client voice that to us. And I said, well, this actually happens to be. Perfect. Because we are meeting almost like their whole team later tonight for dinner. So when we were waiting for them for dinner, one of them walks in, David. [00:11:26] So David walks in and he says, Oh guys, like, I'm so sorry. I'm late. Cause he was late, but it's not a big deal. He's like, Oh guys, I'm so sorry. I'm late. I was actually on the phone with Ron. I was like, wait, like my Ron? And he's like, yeah. Ron, and I was like, Oh good, because I was going to talk to you about Ron. [00:11:44] He's like, it's already done. It's already handled. He's like, we are on top of it. And I'm like, that's amazing. So like, there's not a lot of companies that focus that much on like customer service so much so that at seven o'clock at night, they're going to be on the phone with you. Yeah, but that's what David did. [00:12:03] He's like you need me. I'm going to handle it right now. I don't know. Oh, it's seven o'clock at night. I'm not working. Don't call me. I won't get back to it tomorrow. He was like, I'm doing it right now. And if I'm late meeting Sarah and Jason, I'm late meeting Sarah and Jason.  [00:12:15] Jason: Yeah.  [00:12:16] Sarah: And that to me was really cool. [00:12:17] Jason: Yeah, it goes right along with the totality. [00:12:20] Sarah: Like, we were sharing, like, the feedback and they were like, oh my god, we all have to fix this, like, right now. It wasn't like, oh, that sucks, like, oh, that, oh well, what do we do about that? Oh, give it to the other team. No. All of them were like, we need to fix this right now, like, call him now, like, what can we do? [00:12:35] I'm going to talk to him tomorrow, I'm going to look at his portal like, as soon as I get done with this. It was awesome.  [00:12:39] Jason: Yeah.  [00:12:39] Sarah: So I will say that.  [00:12:40] Jason: Yeah, and part of it was, I think the Vendoroo team, were wanting to maintain relationship, healthy relationship with us as well. Right. They're like, we're going to take care of our mutual clients. [00:12:50] And that's that hospitality aspect, you know, where we're focused on their comfort and that's a way you can stand out really more cost is what Aaron had talked about. He says it doesn't really cost anything extra to just show a little bit more care, to be a little bit kinder, to like focus on hospitality. [00:13:11] If you've already got team members that you're paying a salary, there's some costs, get them to focus on more hospitality and that's way you can stand out. And it. It builds goodwill out in front of you. And by building that goodwill out in front of you, it helps everything in the business go better. [00:13:26] So let me mention our next sponsor True Submeter. Attention, multifamily property owners and managers discover True Submeter, the number one water and sub metering company in the U S say goodbye water use abuse by your tenants and hello to billing for exact water consumption with no unit minimum. Enjoy smart cost effective solutions designed to optimize your property's operations and save you money. Plus get an exclusive 10 percent discount with the code DoorGrow 10. [00:13:58] That's DoorGrow 1 0 visit truesubmeter. com today for intelligent utility solutions and substantial savings. That's truesubmeter.Com. All right.  [00:14:09] Sarah: So everybody in the multifamily space.  [00:14:13] Jason: Yeah.  [00:14:13] Sarah: Where you've got your tenants. Like I literally had a tenant one time, she was so mad, she, and she was a little bit off. [00:14:20] She was just really mad. She would run her sinks just for fun. She would turn on water in the sink, turn on water in the bathtub. She would overflow her bathtub, and it's like, well, we're paying for the water. Well, like the owner was. When we, like, a 1, 300 water bill.  [00:14:36] Jason: Now you can figure out which units, even which state for a device is causing the water issue. [00:14:42] Yeah, and bill accordingly.  [00:14:43] Sarah: And you can help your clients be more profitable, because that's something that they have to eat the cost of. And if you are a real estate investor, because I know there's some of you listening that aren't property managers, you're real estate investors yourselves. [00:14:57] If you've got multifamily and the water meters are not separate and in larger multifamily, they're usually not. Maybe if you have a duplex or maybe a triplex, Sometimes like a little bit bigger, but not normal. It's usually like one water meter for the entire building. So this, I mean, this will help you make more money and actually more profitable. [00:15:24] That would have been great for me. Like I had so many small multis that the water was just included. So we had to then try to like raise the rent to compensate for that. It was just messy.  [00:15:37] Jason: So I guess today's topic was humility and you know, hospitality, you know, or just hospitality and kind of revealing yourself or transparency. [00:15:49] So, you know, the last bit I'll touch on is Aaron talked a little bit about humility and I've always believed humility is recognizing. Humility it's not debasing yourself. It's not putting yourself down. And I think a lot of people think that. And I think Aaron, even though he's got wealth and you know, a lot of things and stuff like this. [00:16:06] He's doing very well as well Sharran, they have this they have humility about them And I think what humility really is created by or what true humility is instead of putting yourself down and saying Oh, i'm like not so great. I don't think that's it at all. What I believe humility is recognizing God and others' hand In your results, that's it. [00:16:28] I think it's just not it's not attributing everything beneficial in your life to yourself It's recognizing that other people around you are having a positive impact and That's why you're able to get results. And so I think really humility is born or created out of gratitude and being grateful And so that's what i'll leave the listeners with if you are feeling really prideful and you deep down don't really feel good about yourself or insecure, then just start to recognize where have others or God or the universe or whatever you're into, where have these things impacted your results and helped you get positive results and start to recognize and, you know, gratitude. [00:17:12] And you'll start to recognize that, Hey, it's not all you. And because it's not all you, that doesn't mean you're not great. It just means that part of what makes you great is that you're able to work with others. Other people believe in you. Other people are supporting you. With others and with God you can do amazing and great things. There's no limit and you know being around other people in programs and masterminds and things like this that are playing a high level game that are maybe ahead of you that are doing really well is one of the main reasons to be in these sort of programs and this is the environment that we, you know, aspire to create and facilitate for our clients is to give them something better to look forward to and to look up to and to be a part of and to be around. [00:18:02] And this is why I think a lot of clients are able to get such great results. If you are struggling in your property management business or you're doing well, but you just know it could be better, you know, your day to day in your life could be better. It's not quite where you want to be. Like you, you want more freedom. You want more time with your family. You want more time with your spouse. [00:18:22] You want to take more vacations, more trips. This is what we can help you get towards and what we can help you accomplish and what we can help you focus on so that you can get the business to serve you instead of you feeling like the business is your master and controlling you. And it's a high chair, tyrant, flinging food in your face, controlling you every day. [00:18:43] Telling you what to do. So let's turn that around reach out to us. You can reach us and find us at doorgrow. com and schedule a call right from that website. Check out our funny videos right at the top If you'd like to you know experience a little humor and levity for the property management industry And make sure to join our facebook group at doorgrowclub. com, and join our free community and until next time, to our mutual growth. Bye everyone. [00:19:09] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:19:36] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

As business owners, we often mistakenly assume that micromanaging our teams will make them more effective and efficient. In today's episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert, Jason Hull sits down with award-winning real estate coach and industry influencer, Jo Oliveri to discuss how implementing automated workflows can revolutionize your property management business. You'll Learn [03:14] USA vs Australia for property management [07:03] Property management is stuck in the past [17:38] What is automation? [21:11] The importance of having good policy [31:24] Why your business needs a set of values [40:23] Implementing automated workflows and processes Tweetables “In some respects, we're struggling as an industry to change our mindset and have a fear of moving forward.” “When we use something manual, it's not logical. It becomes part of what a person feels like doing at that time.” “If you don't have your business founded on a very strong policy, then you're going to struggle when things go wrong.” “Out of policy becomes the promise that we can make, and we know that we can deliver on it.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jo: They say every leader is present even when they're not present. So you need to have that. And the only way to have it in property management is through your automated workflows that are built upon the logic that you created through your process.  [00:00:18] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives. And you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently than you are a DoorGrow property manager. [00:00:38] DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not, because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust, gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:00:59] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, founder and CEO of DoorGrow, Jason Hull. [00:01:18] Now let's get into the show. And my lovely guest today is Jo Oliveri. Welcome, Jo.  [00:01:25] Jo: Hello, Jason. How are you?  [00:01:28] Jason: Good. What time is it over there right now?  [00:01:30] Jo: I think it's about 7am in the morning. So we're a little ahead of you. It's Wednesday. We're in the future here.  [00:01:37] Jason: Yeah you're in the future. How's the future look? [00:01:39] Jo: The future in Brisbane is actually very bleak. It's a very wet day, which is unusual for Brisbane, but we need the rain so.  [00:01:46] Jason: Got it. Well, we're going to be chatting a little bit about about automation, about automating your team and processes a bit, but why don't you give people a little bit of background on yourself? [00:02:01] And how you kind of got into this.  [00:02:04] Jo: Yeah. Okay. Well, I've been around the industry in property management, I chose property management for 30 years, which seems like a long time when I say it, but I've been through the process of when they first introduced property management programs through to where we are today in technology. [00:02:22] And I've worked as a property manager right through to being the kind of like the creator of property management for one of the big international franchise groups until I was ready to launch my own business 15 years ago as a property management business coach and consultant and yeah, just feel blessed to be doing what I do every day because it's a great industry to be involved in.  [00:02:49] Jason: Awesome. So where do we start? [00:02:52] What do you think?  [00:02:53] Jo: Oh, well it's interesting when I say I started 30 years ago, I feel like we're still back in, you know, what we were doing 30 years ago, in some respects we're struggling as an industry to change our mindset and have a fear of moving forward. So it's quite interesting. [00:03:14] Jason: So. You've been back and forth between the United States and Australia involved in property management conferences, events. I've actually just for kicks been reading on my morning walks, the LPMA manuals or doc like books or whatever because I'm like, what do they got going on over there? And it seems like there are some notable differences. [00:03:35] It seems it's really interesting. I'm like, Oh, that's really weird. Why did they do stuff that way over there? So, but what have you noticed between the two countries, like what's kind of different in property management.  [00:03:46] Jo: It's an interesting question, because a lot of people think there is a big difference, but there's really not a lot of difference. [00:03:55] And I say that because I worked in the USA as vice president of a very large company over there in company management.  [00:04:03] Jason: Yeah. [00:04:04] Jo: And I really believe that in a lot of respects, the USA is way ahead of where we are here in Australia. But I think that probably the subtle difference is team structures. [00:04:18] We seem to focus more on property managers doing everything over here. And when I say here, I'm in Australia at the moment. Whereas in the U. S. they like to have like the breakaway roles, I call them. You know, someone focused on maintenance, someone focused on leasing. And yeah, a little bit more task orientated in the U. S.  [00:04:41] Jason: Got it. Okay. What I've noticed in my perception is that property management over there is almost always connected to a brokerage. That's the perception. Is that accurate? Or is it often that there are property management businesses that do not do real estate?  [00:05:00] Jo: Yes. I would say going back two decades, that was probably the case here. [00:05:05] But we are seeing a lot more entrepreneurial type business owners who start up as property management companies and as they grow, then what they're doing, they're losing management's to people selling. So as they grow, they're now adding in you know, like a sales service, which obviously makes sense. So yeah it has changed in the way they're doing it, but certainly when I started property management did belong to an brokerage. But you know, the, when I first started, I worked for a property management only company, which was very unusual back then.  [00:05:45] Jason: Yeah. I was particularly surprised by the growth strategies that I was reading the book. To me, it felt like they were a bit, I don't know, old school and I was like, man, why, but maybe there's just a lot more opportunity in the U S. One of the things that we have a big opportunity here is there's a lot of rental properties that are just not professionally managed. [00:06:07] Whereas it sounds like there's quite a high percentage are professionally managed in Australia.  [00:06:12] Jo: Yeah, I would say, you know, in Australia, we don't see the people who own big property portfolios, like personal property portfolios who become their own managers. So, you know, in the USA you see a lot of people who might own, you know, ten or more doors and they end up starting their own property management company, their own LLCs. [00:06:35] We don't see that In Australia you know, there's not a lot of people in Australia compared to the U. S. that have vast property, you know, holdings. We see more of the mom and dad or the mom and pop, as you would say over there, type investors in Australia that, you know, own one, maybe two properties. [00:06:57] So of course, most of those are managed through you know, a professional property management company.  [00:07:03] Jason: Got it. Yeah. Well, cool. Let's talk a little bit about the topic at hand. So we're going to talk about automated workflows in property management. And I did a webinar in the past talking about three levels of process documentation or of a process system in a property management business. [00:07:21] And my level one was just documentation. It was like google docs or something like that. Level two was checklist It was like Process St. or LeadSimple or some of these kind of tools and then level three was something like DoorGrow flow or Flussos which is It's basically the same thing. It's just Flussos, which is visual workflow. And we use that system and we've upgraded from checklist, which I've had a huge level, right? [00:07:54] First level is kind of like a Google, intranet back in the day when sites and then basically Google docs pretty much. And then and then we had some processes like in Basecamp and eventually we upgraded to Process St. And had that, and that was nice. I liked the software, but I had to do everything. [00:08:14] Like I had to always create the processes. Nobody else understood how the process were created, especially if they were complicated and now using visual workflow and using Flussos, it's been very intuitive. I don't have to create the processes. My team members all can figure it out and it's really like I jokingly say it's like Visio or flowchart software and something like Process St., like had a baby. [00:08:41] And so it really incorporates the best pieces of checklist and of documentation, but with visual workflow and it starts as a visual workflow, which is how everybody generally wants to create processes from the beginning. It's how we think process wise is like we create the boxes with the lines connecting things. [00:09:00] And so I found it to be very intuitive. So what have you noticed in companies in the U. S. and in Australia with their current process system and challenges that they're experiencing and then I'm curious about the contrast when they're switching to something like visual workflow.  [00:09:18] Jo: Yes. Yeah. And you know, there's a massive difference, but I think as a whole, the industry is still a little bit stuck in the old kind of like manual system. Whereas with automated workflow like DoorGrow Flow or Flussos, which, you know, is one in the same thing and it is the best system for property management, you create the logic in everything that we do. You know, when we use something manual, it's not logical. [00:09:46] It becomes part of what a person feels like doing at that time, or, you know, they might be focused on a task because someone is screaming the loudest to get something done. So, as a result, We're not working or focused working on the items within a task that we need to be working on at any given time. [00:10:08] So, you know, like the other thing with automated workflows is we see 24, 7, 365, all the tasks that we need to focus on exactly when we need to focus on. Whereas when you've got those paper checklists or even online checklists, we can move things around. You know, we can say, I don't feel like working on this at the moment. I'm going to go to this part of the flow. I'm going to look at that and your flow becomes illogical. Yes. So it's you know, it's interesting, the mindset that we're dealing with at the moment in the industry, because people like to do what they want to do. And they kind of like wanting to step past other steps because they don't like doing certain steps. [00:10:52] And a lot of the other workflow programs, you know, they allow people to bypass certain steps. And if you're doing that, it's not a proper workflow program. So, I think the industry is just struggling with understanding when they do a task, there is a lot of elements, a lot of actions and steps within every task. [00:11:15] And now we're seeing it. In front of us and people think, "I don't want to do that" or "I never do that," hence why we've had problems in the past  [00:11:24] Jason: Yeah, so steps get skipped, you know a lot of times in checklist systems or just project management type of systems where it's check boxes processes like the other challenges with those systems, it's always very linear it's like step one step two step three, but a lot of processes are more like: Step one, make a decision and based on the decision, go different ways and then maybe even split. So concurrently, one team is working on this and another person's working on this at the same time for efficiency is how we work in real life. [00:11:58] But in the linear checklist, we're waiting until somebody does the first steps and then it gets moves on to the next person. Or you have two people trying to attack the same checklist at the same time. So it just gets really messy. Using checklist and we would run into those issues, so then I had to create controls in my system so that my team would not skip steps. [00:12:18] So then they had to do things. And so then you have to create logic and then you have to make things show or hide based on whether it clicked. And like, there's all these, and so I had to get really nerdy to make things work really well in a checklist system. And it's still, once it got that complicated, if anything broke or was unclear, or somebody needed to alter the process. [00:12:39] I was the only person that could do it. I was the only person that understood what the process was supposed to be doing, because I built it. And if the process is old enough, I might even forget why I was doing things a certain way. So then I have to go back and kind of figure out, what was I trying to create? [00:12:57] Unless I actually created a visual map, or, you know, Visual flow chart in like Lucidchart or Visio or something and did that. And so I've loved being in Flussos. I love being able to even just create visual flows, and even if I'm not going to use them as a process, just creating the map. And i've mapped out my different growth engines for my business so I can pull it up and say, "this is how we get a customer. Here's what we do. Here's the steps. Here's one of our engines Here's another growth engine how we get customers" and so i've used it for other things as well because creating visual flows and everybody being able to see it and understand it creates a lot of clarity. And Sarah, my wife, she honestly believes technology is out to get her. [00:13:44] I don't know if there's anybody else listening to this podcast that like. She thinks technology is like trying to cause problems for her. It's confirmation bias, I'm sure. She's like, "see, look at this! The wifi is not working on my computer or this is not happening. And it's like being mean to me." [00:13:57] But she loves working inside of Flussos, like she loves being able to just drag and drop, move stuff around. She's our operator. She messes with all the processes, even though she's not generally fond of technology. That says a lot because the most difficult factor I've noticed when trying to implement or roll out new tools and things in our business or in any business with clients is adoption. Like it's really difficult to get people to adopt new tech unless it's really easy to use and really intuitive. And so that's one of the things i've really noticed is it's taken the burden off my shoulders. I create no processes. I don't do it! And I just tell my team members. They're like, "Hey, we noticed this. We need to change something". And I'm like, "cool, update the process." And they just do it. I don't have to be involved anymore, which is taking a big load off of my shoulders where I used to kind of think maybe I'm the smartest guy in the room and I'm the only guy that can do process, which is not the case. [00:14:54] I'm just nerdier than most of the people on my team, but having a tool where everybody else can create it makes it a lot easier and it's taken a big, big weight off my shoulders and it gives me that safety and certainty or security that I know because we have all of our processes in there, that if I lose somebody, we can put somebody in place right away, change the role of that person and they can start to use that process and just go through it and do it. And so it creates a lot of safety because we've had things like we've had team members like go on maternity leave. We have team members come back from maternity leave and then quit right away, you know and stuff like this and so it's nice to be able to have anybody on the team like be able to step in and just follow the flow and go through that and then while going through the flow they can see where they are In the process. [00:15:44] Jo: Yeah exactly. And, you know, like team members don't just leave, they could be away for the day. And if they're away for the day in property management, we've got timelines on everything and you create those timelines within Flussos or DoorGrow Flow. You put the timeline on when that particular action or step should be completed. [00:16:05] So, so what it means is it gives the business owner the opportunity to reassign that particular act or step to someone else, always completing the task within the given timeline and delivering on the promise that you made to your clients. There's no excuses of, "I'm sorry, Jo wasn't in this afternoon, so we didn't get it done." [00:16:28] You know? The company has a responsibility and an obligation to the clients to deliver on task as and when due, not on a person, on the company. So, yeah, you know, like when we look at checklists, I like to think of them as, you know, the old school signs and guardrails on the road, whereas our automation is like the magnificent satellite navigation that we have now. [00:16:54] It just guides you. It takes you there in the most you know, fastest, efficient way that you can get there. It gives you the opportunity as your business grows and you restructure roles that you can split those tasks and assign it to the relevant person. So there's no impact on growth as you scale up and grow the business. [00:17:17] It's just, it's the most logical thing for property management because what we do in property management is built on tasks. It's just task after task. So, you know, to me, it's the industry that, you know, really should have automated workflows. That's for sure.  [00:17:36] Jason: And by automation, there's a lot of buzzwords around this right now. [00:17:39] A lot of people think automation means that a robot's doing all the work. And so, but there's I think what we're talking about here is automating or making it so that your team members can follow the processes. And so the machine of the business becomes automated so that the team are more automated instead of doing it manually as you were talking about before. There's this myth kind of in the industry. There's maybe two myths. One I call the process myth. I've noticed this that a lot of businesses that are maybe You know 200 door +, they a lot of times fall prey to this myth that it doesn't matter what their team looks like, they can just go get the cheapest, most mediocre team members as long as they're dumb enough to follow a process, and I feel like that's not accurate like and so there's this process myth. [00:18:31] They think "I just need better processes," and a lot of times when i've dug into their businesses, I've also noticed though that companies that have amazing people and have really good teams, even if they have a lack of processes, there are processes in their heads and they care enough to make sure it's working And things work and the business works well, but i've yet to see businesses Is that are able to grow quickly, have a lot of success that overly micromanage and create endless amounts of processes and try to hire low dollar wage people to just do everything. [00:19:06] And the challenge there is that they still have to be the thinker and decision maker in a lot of instances. And so how do you look at processes versus humans making decisions? And so where's the decision making come in where you need somebody to think versus just follow a to do list and do tasks and be told what to do? [00:19:30] Jo: Yeah, well, to be able to make decisions, you have to have process because process is built on policy. So policy creates the protocol where you can make decisions. And there are things that come from left field every day in property management. And if you don't have a protocol that says "if this, then that," then people make decisions based on their own knowledge or. Perhaps fear of the situation that they're involved in and so potentially wrong decisions are made, delays are created, and so risk and mitigation is a result of that and liability. So if you don't have your business founded on a very strong policy, then you're going to struggle when things go wrong. [00:20:16] You'll struggle with growth because you start to become very reactive to everything that's going on. And when you've got policy, it provides that platform for being proactive in everything you do. There is, you know, deliberation and determination in every element of your business. And it removes that element of desperation that we see so many companies built upon. [00:20:42] You know, they feel losing a key member of staff. And I think if ever you've got that fear, then your business is not strong. You should never fear losing staff because the only constant in a business is the business owner. Everyone else will come and go. So if you fear losing any particular staff member, it means that you're not in control of your business. [00:21:05] Jason: It's job security for them, but it creates risk for you. Exactly. Exactly. Could you explain, you've spoken on this at one of our events and I thought it was really interesting, the difference between landlord tenant law and policy procedures process, like that sort of idea because I think a lot of property managers are like, "well, there's the law," but that's not always clear, right?  [00:21:30] Jo: The law is created, to me, by lawyers and therefore it's not black and white. It's gray So we have to interpret what the law says and there is some very strong guidelines in law as in, you know timelines for you know, issuing a breach or you know, notice to quit or anything like that. [00:21:51] So there is very strong timelines, but there's other things that we have to interpret legislation into our policy. And then when we've got policy, we can then create process and protocol should something happen. So an example of that is, you know, if we issue a pay or quit, and the owner is saying no, you know, like, "I don't want you to give that notice to my tenant. I want to give them a little bit of time to, you know, pay the rent." And then we're outside the guidelines of law. Then, you know, what have we got written into our policy should an owner say, "don't give my tenants you know, notice to pay or quit," or should an owner be saying, "no, I'm not going to do that maintenance on my property" when the tenancy agreement states that maintenance has to be done as does the management agreement. [00:22:44] So, you know, it's understanding all those things that do happen in property management or, you know, one that happens all the time is when managers do so much work on securing an applicant that should be approved for a property. A lot of work goes into that, showing the property, advertising the property, processing the application. And then we've got someone who is, you know, the star applicant and we can't get a hold of the owner. And what happens is property managers delay the process out of fear of making a decision because they can't get a hold of the owner, and then they lose that applicant. Now, you know, that's cost the company a lot of money and the owner has got extended periods of vacancy, whereas we should have a protocol in place that in the event that we can't contact the owner, we've had the discussion, you know, when the property is, knowing that it's going vacant to say, "if we can't contact you when we've got a an applicant that suits the criteria within that 24 hours, we will make a decision on your behalf because we know what you're looking for." But fear prevents people from making decisions. [00:24:02] And we shouldn't be like that. And the only reason why we're like that is because we don't have a strong policy. So, you know, don't build your business on legislation. You have to interpret that legislation into your policy and what you do to manage. That, you know, legislation.  [00:24:24] Jason: So it seems like there's kind of a process here, right? [00:24:27] So first people know and understand the legislation. They need to be clear on this and they need to be up and current on this. And then based on this legislation, they need to create rules internally for how we are going to go about doing business, how we're going to do things and we have these different policies in the business of how we're going to interpret the law or the legislation. Once we have these policies then we can start to create process around this so that we can follow our policies and achieve the good or desired outcomes that we're aiming for. Does this sound accurate?  [00:25:02] Jo: Absolutely spot on. Yes. Okay, exactly. Yes, right. [00:25:06] Jason: So what are some things that you notice, because you help a lot of business owners get their processes dialed in get some of these visual workflows mapped out, what's lacking a lot of times in their thinking about how to build a really good process? One of the things that really stood out to me in one of the previous calls as an example was setting expectations. Just setting expectations reduces a lot of extra unnecessary work, like, "Hey, tenant, we will let you know in a day that about this," instead of them following up multiple times asking you and then multiple phone calls and emails and stuff like this. And so just communicating clearly expectations of when you're going to communicate again seems like a really simple addition to a lot of processes that reduces a lot of extra unnecessary work and interruptions.  [00:25:55] Jo: Yeah. No, there again, you've got a business that will be proactive and not have that, you know, like, "Oh my goodness, what do we do now? This happened, the tenant won't talk to us," or "the tenants changed the locks at the property," or, you know, "we can't get a hold of the owner to get this decision." [00:26:12] So everything becomes reactive and the focus and the energy goes into whatever that situation is. And meanwhile, we've got other things that are cropping up in the business that are also going to just ignite. And then they'll take our attention. So, you know, we've got this constant hopping from one drama to another because we don't have the proper policy in place. [00:26:35] And when we say that, you know, like an automated workflow is logical. Well, logic is built on reality. You know, you can't have something that's logical if it's not created out of reality in the first place. And the reality becomes the policy that you create for your company. So I would say a lot of companies actually lack that foundation of policy. [00:27:00] It's all very much hearsay. When you talk to the teams, and I work with a lot of teams, and what I like to do is talk to each team member one on one and, you know, ask them, in the event of this, what do you do? How do you do this? And very rarely do I ever get the same response from, you know, the team, they're all based on their own experience, their own need to be valued. And the way people are valued is very personal. Whereas if you create your policy, then we create how people value what you do as well. So it's not all, you know, like, "I like this to make me feel good." You know, we do get the thank yous from the clients because we deliver on the promises we make because out of policy becomes the promise that we can make, and we know that we can deliver on it. And hence that's the expectation.  [00:28:00] Jason: So I've noticed one of the things I've noticed in some businesses, it sounds like there's kind of this issue of like, you ever played the telephone game? Where like you say something to somebody and they say it and then by the end they reveal what they think the person at the end that the beginning said and it's like totally off, right? And so it gets ridiculous because they're just passing it along and this hearsay as you mentioned, this is often how sort of the policies in a business kind of get passed around or passed on like somebody trains somebody else, somebody brings them in, they're asking questions. [00:28:33] "Hey, susie. What are we do in this?"  [00:28:35] "Oh, I just kind of do this," and so then we create this whole nebulous, cloudy, fuzzy, weird thing where everybody's kind of making decisions. And the reason why is "Susie told me, like when I first got hired because she was impatient and I was annoying her that to do it this way, and I've been doing it that way ever since, and that's what I've been telling everybody else that I've been talking to is how we do it." because it's not defined. So. That's interesting. So a lot of businesses they might have processes. I mean, almost every property management business probably has some process defined, if not, you are probably very new, but a lot of them are lacking policy being documented. [00:29:13] Jo: Yeah. Yeah. You know, a lot of them when they create the process, it's based upon, you know, what the team feel is right to, and you quite often hear property managers saying, "I never do that," or you know, "I do it this way and I've always done it that way, and I'll continue to do it that way because I feel comfortable." [00:29:31] Jason: "Manuel says this, but that seems mean or uncomfortable for me. So I've found a better way of doing it."  [00:29:39] Jo: Exactly. And "all my clients would never like it if I did that." Well, you know, when you hear that conversation, it's like, you've got a problem in your business because your business is not grounded in its policy. [00:29:52] So it's all made up as they go along. That's where we start to have that desperation. We don't have a finger on the pulse of that business. We don't know what's going on because your team is doing things the way they want to do it. And they're telling you what you want to hear. So you're hearing, "Oh, everything's great." [00:30:12] And then all of a sudden that team member is, you know, really struggling and with not coping and they leave, and we find an enormous amount of unfinished tasks of dissatisfied clients of liability sitting there.  [00:30:29] Jason: From my experience, every team member that I had that left that I thought I would just probably die if I lost them. [00:30:37] These are always the team members that you probably need to leave, I've realized. Because when they do, you think you can't lose them. It's because you don't know what they're doing. You don't have clarity on their processes. They're not documented, which creates job security for them, but it creates a lack of transparency and clarity for you. [00:30:55] And often they're doing things that are stupid or the wrong way or that don't make sense that you would change if you were aware of it. And so when I have a team member leave that I was unclear about what they were doing. We started digging into it. There's a lot of dissatisfaction, you know a lot of clients were frustrated a lot of situations where I didn't know it was being done that way, and so that's it becomes a, you know, kind of a blessing in disguise a really good opportunity to now define things and improve things. [00:31:24] So It sounds like maybe we've got the legal that impacts the policy, but it sounds like maybe also the business because different businesses have different set of values, right? So, for example, let's say one business, their maintenance value is to do things high quality as possible. Real high quality so that there's no repeat work. [00:31:48] And then another is like "our owners are cheap and we want to do things as cheap as possible." Duct tape is appropriate in plumbing. Something like this. And so there's a difference in value and maybe neither one is right or wrong. Right. There may be more repeat work, but it's cheaper and that's what the owners want or what and the values of the business owner and what they dictate. These are the values of the company. And so it sounds like maybe also going into the processes and maybe even into the policy is also there needs to be mixed in the principles or the values of the company, which should be defined.  [00:32:21] Jo: Oh, definitely. Yeah, definitely. It's about the principles and the personality of that company. [00:32:27] So what's the personality of your brand? How do you want people to see your brand when they talk about? So I always say, if you don't write your own story, people will make up your story about your brand. So you've got to write your story and tell your story about what your brand is all about. You know, is your brand, you know, filled with care and heart, or are they just, you know, a brand that's churn and burn? Just get them in. And, you know, we don't build on relationships. We get them in and, you know, do what we need to do. And it's a very interesting, a lot of that comes from one, the vision, the original vision of when that person created their business, and two, the marketplace that they're working in because you can't, you know, be a suave, sophisticated brand if you're in a marketplace where you're going through an area of the area is going through rejuvenation because what we find in those areas is a lot of the old homes that the, you know, the owners of those homes are developers. [00:33:30] And they don't want to spend money on those properties because they're just kind of like waiting until they've got the approval to knock the property down and rebuild, you know, high rise or something like that. So, you know, you've got to understand your market area and make sure that your brand aligns with your market and your message aligns with your brand. [00:33:51] And then to do that, you've got to make sure that what backs you up is your process because your process is in how you deliver on whatever that image is, that story is, that you created on your brand. Because this is where we start to see as the business grows, everyone has their own spin on your story and they it becomes their story not the brand story. So yeah, the chapters all start changing  [00:34:22] Jason: I've seen this in my own business. [00:34:24] I've seen this in our clients business and we refer to kind of that a lot of times as culture because what we've noticed is If culture is off in a business, then it seems like everything is worse. Everything gets worse. And it's, it means the business isn't really built effectively around the business owner. [00:34:41] So usually the business owner is miserable in their own business because they haven't created cultural clarity. They don't have their core values mapped out or they've got too many so they value everything and nothing all at the same time, kind of. And they don't have clarity on why they do what they do or why they're in the business. [00:35:01] And so getting clarity on the motive also when we create our processes one of my rules for creating processes for our team is It needs to state at the beginning of the process what the outcome is supposed to be, so there's clarity on exactly the best desired outcome and then why we're doing it like why is that important? So that they understand the reason because sometimes you may not achieve at the full outcome, but if as long as you're in alignment with our values or you understand why we're doing things a certain way, then you're less likely to screw it up or try to change it or be cute or be clever, right? [00:35:38] And so sometimes it you know, I really believe that transformational leadership is way more effective than transactional leadership and transactional is like "here's a task. Just do what I tell you to do. Be a robot, all of the orders" and you know, "don't think," and when we get into transformational leadership, it's more, "here's the outcome that we want. I don't care how you get there, well do it according to these values at least, but whatever steps you need to do to make sure this happens, this is the end desired goal. Here's a possible way of doing it, but get this outcome, right?" If the outcome is: we want to provide great customer service, that's going to look different in a variety of different situations. [00:36:20] But if you're like, "well, the policy is that we never give a refund for this, and we only, you know, blah, blah, blah, and tell you to go pound sand," then maybe it's not going to achieve great customer service. And so, you know, I had a support team for a while that they were getting stuff done. But their communication skills in the support tickets was like really terrible. [00:36:41] They were like, "this is done." And they like, that was their reply. And I was like wait a second. So like, we changed our why at the time, because it was to build websites or whatever back in the day. And I was like, "our why statement is to build incredibly effective relationships and websites." [00:37:00] And so the emphasis became on the relationships. And so then I was focusing on the team. So they started to, "Oh, I need to communicate in a different way." And they followed the same process to achieve closing a ticket out. But what was different is how they communicated it and whether they showed care and whether they showed, you know, had effective communication or kind communication, which is very different than just, I did this, it's done. [00:37:25] Jo: Definitely. And I agree with you. I think every task that we do and everything we do is a task in property management has to have its own objective and outcome. And then we also need to understand the clients that we serve, we need to understand their why and we become their how to their why because, you know, like they only engage us because they've got a certain goal that they want to achieve. [00:37:54] They don't know how to do that. So they call on us because we become their how and the how is then our objective and outcome for everything that we do. And it's consistent because then what we do is we break down that, you know, personality, who wants to be the hero in everything or the one who's the villain or the one who's, you know, got a split personality and they're a hero to some clients and a villain to others. [00:38:22] So, you know, that's where we start to have the schizophrenia within a brand. It's not the one personality. So, you know, like we do when we create a team is about different skills, different personality, but it all joins to actually deliver to the clients the way that we see our brand, the way that we've created our brand through the policy, the platform of policy. [00:38:47] And that's the reality of our brand, to then create the process and the protocol. And you know, you've got a good, solid brand. And I think the best example of this in the world is Disney. You know, Walt Disney he Died decades ago, but when you go into Disneyland, you feel him there. You look through the eyes of Walt Disney when you walk into Disneyland, when you watch a Disney movie, and that's what we need to do when we're creating our business. [00:39:20] We need to show what our vision is so all of our team can almost look through our eyes to see what it's going to be like. And you know, every leader, they say every leader is present even when they're not present. So you know, you need to have that. And the only way to have it in property management is through your automated workflows that are built upon, you know, the logic that you created through your process. [00:39:51] So, it's very interesting and people keep trying to shortcut it, or they think that, you know, they've hired the, you know, the next best thing since sliced bread and then they're disillusioned. They think, well, what happened to that person? And there's all the blame and justification. It's like business should not run on blame and justification. That's ignorance.  [00:40:14] Jason: That's terrible fuel for a business. Yeah, it is. So, well, I think Jo, this has been, I think very helpful. You do a lot of different things. Right. And you help people with process, you've got great systems, probably can help people with procedures, et cetera. So, how can people get in touch with you if they're needing some help with something? [00:40:39] Jo: Yes, definitely. And I would encourage, you know, everyone in the industry to invest in getting your policy and process done correctly, because once you've done it, then changing it as your business scales and grows is simple. It's just adjustments and alignments. along the way. So, you know, invest in it now. [00:41:01] And I'm more than happy, you know, we could even do group exercises, Jason. But probably the best way to contact me is I'm on social media you know, through the messenger and chats on social media or email. So, the email, it's a long one because my. My company is called E Revolution, which is Oliveri backwards. [00:41:26] So, yeah, so it's just Jo, which is simple Jo@ireviloution.Com. I R E V I L O U T I O N. Dot com. So it's super simple.  [00:41:41] Jason: All right, we'll throw that in the show notes, make sure people got it. All right Well, Jo, thanks for coming on the show. Appreciate you being here. And so how can people learn more that are interested about Flussos or this visual workflow tool. [00:41:58] Jo: Yeah, the easiest way there is jump on our website. [00:42:01] Sorry Flussos. com FLUSS OS dot com and Flussos is Italian for flow. So jump on there, book a demo and you'll most likely get my husband Stacey who will do the demo with you and you know, like go through the process of don't push back immediately. Yeah. Anyone who starts working on automated workflows, it's about adapting to a new mindset in the way that you do the do every day in property management. So, you know, be patient with yourself, be very deliberate and focused on going through a mindset. And I liken this to When we introduced, you know, property management platforms 30 years ago in the industry, and I was new then, so I adopted immediately, but I see all the people that have been in the industry failed to adapt, and they didn't hang around for long. [00:42:58] So we're going through that change that we did, but go in there, get help, don't do it alone. You know, it is difficult to create flows because you like engineering and architecture. So, is that a word? So yeah, go on to Flussos. com, book a demo let them know that you're, you know, with DoorGrow as well. Just say hi I'm with DoorGrow because we've got some special things for all the family at DoorGrow. So yeah. Yeah, you know, like, just do it. [00:43:27] Don't delay. Don't let fear get in the way. Don't let fear of your team not wanting it get in the way. You know, if you've got fear of your team pushing back,  [00:43:36] that's a problem. So yeah.  [00:43:38] Jason: Not sure what it sounds, but I can tell you, like, having gone through switching process software multiple times. [00:43:45] This one, we love. Like, we love being able to run processes on it. And once you figure it out, I really think it's super intuitive. At the basic level, it's drag and drop. It's really easy to use. And, yeah, there's a lot of complexity that can be added under the hood to really make things really well dialed in, but you'll get there.  [00:44:04] Stacey will help you. All right.  [00:44:06] Jo: He will.  [00:44:07] Jason: All right. Cool. Well, it's great to have you here on the show. Jo, thanks for being here on the DoorGrow show.  [00:44:13] Jo: My pleasure. Such a joy. Thanks, Jason. All right. Bye.  [00:44:17] Jason: Okay. So if you are a property management entrepreneur and you are struggling, you don't even know what the problem is, you're trying to grow your business, you're not even sure why, what is the problem? Maybe you think, "well, I just need more leads or I just need better processes or whatever it is that you believe." Get on a call with our team and we'll help you figure it out. And maybe you're not clear on what the problem is. [00:44:40] We'll help you figure it out. And maybe you're not even clear on what the solution is or where you're at currently and what your current situation is. You're like, "I know there's something off or it could be better, but I'm not even clear." We'll help you get some clarity on that and figure it out. And we're not going to try and sell you anything unless you need something. [00:44:57] And if you need something, then we're just going to try and figure out if you want it, you know, if we have something that could help you we're not we're not pushy salespeople. But we do love helping property managers. So check us out. You can go to doorgrow. com. A lot of people are like, what does DoorGrow do? [00:45:12] We grow and scale companies dramatically and quickly. And so if you would like to grow your business, you're tired of wasting time, trying to figure out what works, wasting time doing advertising, falling prey to a bunch of different marketers. And you want to figure out what is actually working to grow businesses? [00:45:29] We're helping people grow their businesses without spending money even on advertising. You're able to grow even faster by eliminating that stuff. And so we may be able to cut your ad budgets and increase the output and the ability to grow and add doors in your business. And so we do a lot of other stuff to consult property managers and helping them get things dialed in, reach out to us. [00:45:51] We would love to help you figure out how to grow your business. So you check us out at doorgrow. com. And if you are a frequent podcast follower or listener, we would appreciate it if you like subscribe and leave us some sort of review on whatever channels you're listening on. It helps us help more people and we appreciate it. [00:46:11] And that's it for today. Until next time, to our mutual growth. Bye everybody. [00:46:15] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:46:42] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

It's been 6 years since we've had TenantCloud join us on the podcast, and a lot has changed since then! In today's episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull welcomes Mark DeHaan from TenantCloud to talk about how it can help property managers collect payments, advertise properties, and screen potential tenants. You'll Learn [03:03] TenantCloud update!  [06:46] How does TenantCloud compare? [09:34] TenantCloud integrations  [12:20] Scaling with your software  [15:56] Starting strong with Rentler  Tweetables “A lot of times when you get into rental real estate… you log into a property management system and you're like, "holy smokes, this is so overwhelming like I can't figure this out.” “A lot of property managers have all of these different tools. They kind of build their own Swiss army knife or stack of different tools and software.” “A lot of property managers have a challenge with financials and accounting.” “We love the rental real estate industry and helping people grow and make passive income and that's what we're all about.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Mark: A lot of times when you log into a property management system and you're like, "holy smokes, this is so overwhelming, like I can't figure this out." [00:00:07] And that's, I think the differentiator that we tried to solve.   [00:00:11] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. [00:00:29] DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners, and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. [00:01:10] Now, let's get into the show. And my guest today is Mark DeHaan of TenantCloud. So Mark, welcome to the show. Good to have you.  [00:01:19] Mark: Yeah. Thanks Jason. Nice to meet you. Appreciate it.  [00:01:22] Jason: So we haven't had TenantCloud on the show for like six years. Back then, Joe Edgar was CEO. I had to look it up because I'm like, "I know, that they've been on the show before." [00:01:32] So I'm guessing a little bit's changed since then. So why don't we start by getting into a little bit about Mark. Tell us, tell everybody like, who are you and how'd you get into your entrepreneurial journey and then what led you to being at TenantCloud?  [00:01:46] Mark: Yeah, great. Yeah. So I'm based here just outside of Salt Lake city, Utah. [00:01:50] And I was a co founder of Rentler. And we partnered with TenantCloud, merged with them about five years ago with Joe. And when he exited, I ended up taking over as a CEO and running both Rentler and TenantCloud. And it's been a big journey by then, but yeah, my history was rental real estate. [00:02:13] And being an entrepreneur and really sacrificing and so forth. And it's been really exciting, and I love your audience because I think they can relate to, you know, being an entrepreneur and trying to grow in the real estate business.  [00:02:25] Jason: So for sure. I'm looking up Rentler right now, cause I don't know what it is. [00:02:30] What's Rentler? [00:02:31] Mark: So Rentler primarily focuses on listings and filling vacancies for landlords, small mom and pop landlords. Yeah. It does some payments and screenings and a few other tools and syndicates out your leads. And then TenantCloud is a lot more robust. It does the accounting, the maintenance, a ton of things that you can track with service professionals and your owners and reporting. [00:02:53] And so they came, they come together really nicely. And we just try to really focus on. landlords and property managers and using technology to make their lives easier.  [00:03:03] Jason: Got it. So what's what's been going on at TenantCloud since in the last six years? Like what what are you guys doing lately? [00:03:12] And you know, why should people use TenantCloud? Like, let's get into it.  [00:03:17] Mark: Yeah. So the last bit we've been growing tremendously. We're processing over a billion dollars in rent payments a year. Well over that. And TenantCloud really as its core is to help the rental life cycle and help owners, service professionals, tenants, and landlords really come together and leverage technology to run the business and the way we built it was with that in mind to really make things seamless and easy. And you can pay your rent with, you know, ACH, credit, debit, Apple Pay, Google Pay. We have a lot of things that we're working on to just make life easier there. We do screenings, have a ton of different bundles, options for you to do screenings and to protect your investment. And that's been really good to help people with income verification and criminal and background checks and of that nature. [00:04:11] Yeah and we do a lot of accounting. We will even file your Schedule E for you automatically. So the cool thing about TenantCloud is you don't have to have a degree in accounting. You can really log into our software and we're, we'll lead you along that process. And we'll do a lot of the tax reporting team management and you know...  [00:04:33] Jason: Can you explain what a schedule E is for those that might not be familiar with it. [00:04:38] Mark: Yeah, absolutely. So schedule E is you know, to report income or loss on your rental real estate. And that's one thing that you'll have to do. You'll get a 1040 form and, you know, the government will want you to file that. And sometimes that can be tough to do, but with our system we will track all of your expenses and all your income and so forth and help you file that form on your behalf.  [00:05:05] Jason: So for property managers, they're doing this third party for owners, this then becomes a resource for the owners that they're managing properties for. It will do it for them as well? [00:05:15] Mark: Yes, and we do have like an owner portal. So what's great is you can have your owners log in instead of having that back and forth. [00:05:24] We give them a login where they can have some view access to see their portfolio as well. So it just makes it easy for those property managers to work with their owners.  [00:05:35] Jason: Got it. Okay. Now what's different between a property manager using this tool or like owners just going direct and getting TenantCloud and bypassing the property manager? [00:05:46] Mark: Well, yeah, I mean, some owners can do that, but I mean, then they have to deal with a lot of the heavy lifting with the maintenance and managing all the units. And so with the property manager using our system, we make it easy for the owners to have access and you can send your distributions to them and so forth. [00:06:05] But it really comes down to the ease of use and being able to manage all your leads. Manage, you know, all your contracts, all your communications with your tenants and with it, it's such a affordable option. Like our lowest plan is 17 bucks a month and we don't do a lot of unit restrictions like other competitors where you can add a bunch of units on the system. And really make it affordable for you as a property manager. So, yeah, hopefully that answers your question there.  [00:06:36] Jason: Got it. Okay. So you would say TenantCloud's probably a lot more affordable than some of the competition that exists for property managers out there. So how would you say TenantCloud kind of compares to some of the big names in the industry like Appfolio, Propertyware, there's a bunch of these You know, and then I know Bodia just came out with RentVine and then Rent Manager, you know, these tools. So we've got clients using all these different tools. [00:07:03] So how does TenantCloud sort of fit into the mix and how do you kind of stand out among all these different tools because there's so many of them now.  [00:07:11] Mark: Yeah. So we started with the end user in mind where it was more of a business to consumer platform where you didn't have to do a heavy integration and you could just quickly create an account and more of a self service where it would be really intuitive. [00:07:28] If you were, you know, if you had one property up to, you know, 50 units, you could easily log in. And it was way more affordable than those bigger players. They have monthly minimums, and you'd have to spend months to integrate your stuff. Everything we built was to make it so, boom, within a couple days, you could get set up, and we would help you add your accounts, add your units, add your tenants data. And so we really tried to make it cutting edge where we used a lot of the technology to help you get set up a lot quicker. And so one thing that people really, they come over to us is. You know, they're like, "man, your platform is a lot easier to use because of the way you built it. It's just really quick to get it. I don't have to hire an accountant or get an implementation manager to help me use your software" because a lot of times when you get into rental real estate, you're an entrepreneur or you have a day job and then you log into a property management system and you're like, "holy smokes, this is so overwhelming, like I can't figure this out." [00:08:35] And that's, I think the differentiator that we tried to solve is that you don't have to have a professional help you use our software. You can just go ahead and get started and it will help you from day one.  [00:08:46] Jason: So basically, you're kind of one of your unique differentiators is since you started with the consumer in mind, instead of maybe a property manager in mind, you focus really on maybe the tenant and the property owner's experience being you know, really great, which once you started focusing on property managers, probably made a lot easier for the property managers. They're probably getting less questions. Maybe the reports are a little more clear. It's a little bit easier for them to figure out what they need, which has been a frustration. I've heard from a lot of software, you know, the owners find it confusing. They find their statements confusing. The tenants are like feeling things are confusing. Now a lot of property managers have all of these different tools. They kind of build their own Swiss army knife or stack of different tools and software. [00:09:34] How are integrations with TenantCloud or which things do you guys do really well that they might not need? You know, some of our clients might, for example, be using TenantTurner, even though they use Appfolio in order to get properties leased out and, or they might be, or to do self showings, or they might be using we've got a lot of clients getting going on this new AI maintenance coordinator called Vendoroo, or in the past, they might use PropertyMeld, you know, for maintenance coordination. [00:10:01] So they're stacking all these different tools because usually there's better stuff than what the property management software has internally. How does TenantCloud sort of go with this?  [00:10:11] Mark: Yeah, that's a great question. So TenantTurner is an awesome company and we have an integration with them. [00:10:18] Jason: Okay.  [00:10:18] Mark: And so we feel like we're a platform and we're doing more and more integrations with companies like you mentioned with maintenance. There's others out there that solve that problem. I mean, we have a maintenance portal, but we love to integrate other tools and make it so it's seamless and easy that you can do a show in coordination like a TenantTurner and so forth. [00:10:39] And so, yeah, that's a big thing for our users and we love to work nicely with other companies that will help benefit them.  [00:10:47] Jason: Great. So, TenantCloud has an open API that some of these companies can connect with? Yeah. Okay. Awesome.  [00:10:54] Mark: Absolutely. I mean, we have a partnerships team and they can reach out and we can, you know, when our users request certain things, we say, you know, that makes sense. [00:11:04] So absolutely. We love that.  [00:11:06] Jason: Is there a scenario or a situation in which you think. TenantCloud' s maybe not a good fit for certain property managers or certain types of management.  [00:11:18] Mark: Yeah, that is sometimes like multifamily or you're getting really a ton of units. You're going to probably need something a little bit more robust. [00:11:27] Now, we just launched reconciliation and some other features more reporting tools to help as we move up market because primarily we were focused on ones that, you know, had under 10 units and then we started growing. Now we have people that use us that have a few hundred doors and they love it. [00:11:46] They love the ease of use. They love the cost. They love that it's not restrictive, but some of that trade off is like, "Hey, you don't have some of these other customizations that you know, maybe a Yardi or some of these bigger players have." And so I would say if that's the case, you know, you'd have to wait a little bit as we continue to add more of those robust features for the upmarket bigger players. [00:12:08] Jason: It sounds like TenantCloud is a great place for a property manager. And it's small to start, especially when they're getting pushed back from places like Appfolio or Buildium, saying you have to have a 200 door minimum stuff like this. Is TenantCloud something that can scale with them up to maybe a thousand doors? Are they going to run into some capacity issue or some challenges if they continue? Because switching software is hard.  [00:12:31] Mark: Yeah, it is. And we do have some that have a thousand doors and some bigger ones and they love it. And I think it's just the way you approach your business and how you can adapt. [00:12:41] I mean, you'd save a ton of money and the way that every property manager is different. You know, I wish there was a standard in how accounting worked in the industry and how things did with money in, money out and so forth. But so sometimes people say, "well, I'm just so used to how these older systems work," and that's fine. [00:12:59] But if you want to be more innovative and more customer facing and adopt, you know, the latest technologies on how payments are being transferred and so forth, then I think you'll fit in really good, you know, with what we have going on.  [00:13:13] Jason: Got it. Yeah. I know that's been an industry issue for a long time is they're not being sort of a standard in accounting and NARPM then released the NARPM sort of chart of accounts and the NARPM accounting standard that hopefully is starting to get people a little more on the same page. [00:13:30] It has kind of been an adoption challenge, I think, and some people are starting to get going on it. And then there's definitely some businesses that have been capitalizing on it financially to like help businesses get that dialed in and get their QuickBooks like mapped out. Related to that, a lot of property managers have a challenge with financials and accounting. [00:13:51] They've got the accounting they've got to do for the client, right? Which is usually done by their property management software. But then there's their internal accounting, their own books. And some of them try to run that through their software, which I think is a little crazy. Or some of them tried, like, will have QuickBooks or something else. [00:14:07] I've noticed this it is a common problem in the industry is like people having this accounting mess and not being focused on it. Some outsource it and I've had clients come to me that say they found out their bookkeeper or accountant wasn't doing things right for like three years. And then one of my clients was suing their accountant and won and like, but it's still a mess that has to be cleaned up. [00:14:31] And so, maybe you could touch on TenantCloud. I know you help with the owners and their properties and the accounting. I'm sure. How do they help with their business accounting? Is there any connection to like maybe quickBooks, or is this something that the tool helps with or how would this work? [00:14:50] Mark: Yeah. So we have an integration with QuickBooks and that helps. And then everything we do with the reporting and with all your financials, we just try to make it really easy between the owners and the property managers so that, you know, it's seamless, but I do feel like, you know, QuickBooks could help. [00:15:09] And, you know, primarily we're trying to do property management software. But you know, personal finance is a big part of that. We just are launching a cool product with our banking partner where we can now loan some capital to folks that want to grow some doors. And so with our payment system and our banking partner, people can quickly get a loan directly through our system and they could use it to then go buy their next rental property. So we're looking at more innovative ways. That just kind of reminded me on the personal finance, like, "Hey, I really want to go buy this next door, but I don't have some money." We can help loan that money to help you grow your business. [00:15:51] And that's going to be coming out here at the end of this year.  [00:15:54] Jason: Cool. Very cool. So how does how does this relationship with Rentler and TenantCloud benefit, maybe property managers that are looking to use your software. And this, your shirt has on it. So then you've got this relationship going there. [00:16:08] So how did these kind of work together? I'm curious.  [00:16:11] Mark: Yeah. So Rentler doesn't have a subscription. It's free to use. And so if you're just like one unit. And you're just barely getting in. Let's say you're moving and you just need to rent out your basement apartment or you just have one property, you can use our payment system, do screenings and you can list your property, syndicate, get your leads, fill vacancies. And it's like super light. I mean, it would probably be very similar to like a Cozy back in the day, or like a Zillow Rent Manager just something there to just boom, do that. And then as you graduate, as you go, "Hey, I really want to do more accounting or actually property management software." [00:16:51] Then you graduate up to TenantCloud and when you list with TenantCloud, it will post on Rentler, but Rentler was primarily, you know, a listings and filling vacancy. So that's how that works.  [00:17:02] Jason: Is there an easy upgrade path from Rentler to TenantCloud or?  [00:17:06] Mark: Absolutely. Yeah, there is. [00:17:07] Yeah, we have a fantastic support system. Pretty much 24 seven support. We have chat, we have people you can call and we'll help you. Most all of our support have been in property management and ran their own property management companies. And so they're really helpful to. to guide you and what you need for your business. [00:17:26] Jason: Got it. Okay. Very cool. So, well, this is very helpful. Anything else that people should know about TenantCloud if they're working on making this decision right now between all these different software that exist out there?  [00:17:38] Mark: Yeah, I'd say we have a free trial and give us a shot and there's a lot of great things coming down the pipe. [00:17:44] So just ask our team, you know, Hey, if we don't have something that we probably will have it coming soon, but yeah, give us a go and you'll love it and we'll make your life a lot easier.  [00:17:56] Jason: Very cool. Awesome. Well, Mark, how can people find out more about TenantCloud? How can they get in touch with y'all? [00:18:04] Mark: Yeah, they can log on TenantCloud. com. We do a webinar every Thursday and they can learn about our system. And they can sign up for that on our website, TenantCloud. com. They can reach out. We have a great sales team, account management team that will give you a demo. You know, We'll do a consult free consultation on your business and help you out with that. [00:18:25] So we're happy to help we love the rental real estate industry and helping people grow and make passive income and that's what we're all about.  [00:18:34] Jason: Awesome mark. Thanks for coming on the DoorGrow show giving us an update on TenantCloud and everybody check them out at TenantCloud. com. Thanks for coming, Mark. [00:18:43] Mark: All right. Thank you, Jason. Appreciate it.  [00:18:45] Jason: You bet. All right. So if you are a property management entrepreneur and you are either struggling to get leads or to add doors to your property management business, reach out to DoorGrow. We might be able to help you and we've been able to help lots of our clients add hundreds of doors to their portfolios to help them scale their businesses. [00:19:09] And we would love to see if we might be a fit for you to help you scale as well. So check us out at doorgrow.Com. And if you are a fan of the podcast or you follow us on YouTube. Make sure to like, and subscribe and make sure you're plugged in and make sure to join our free Facebook community by going to DoorGrow club. com. If you go to doorgrowclub.Com, it will redirect you to our Facebook group so that you can join. Make sure you answer the questions clearly because we're really careful about who we let in. We reject 60 to 70 percent of the people that apply to join that group every month. It's for property management, entrepreneurs, property management business owners. [00:19:54] That includes those of you that are starting a property management business, just let us know that in the questions. So answer the questions. Join that and make sure you're asking questions inside the group and you'll by joining the group. We will also send you a series of free gifts to benefit you including a fee bible and some other resources that I think would be really useful to your business. [00:20:18] And you can also then schedule a call with our team. So check that out doorgrowclub.com. Until next time, everybody. To our mutual growth. Have an awesome week. Bye everyone [00:20:28] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:20:54] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

  In this episode of the Market Call show, I sit down with Jason Meshnick, a market maker turned fintech pioneer whose intriguing career journey has taken him from the bustling trading floors of the early 2000s to the cutting edge of AI in finance. Jason recounts his winding path from a philosophy major in small-town Poughkeepsie, New York, to becoming a Wall Street trader and, later, a leader in tech for trading. We explore his transition to automated trading as floors shifted online trader jobs contracted and his move into roles in finance education and media. Jason offers a captivating look into the evolution of markets and trading strategies, from the dynamics of floor versus electronic exchanges to analyzing sentiment shifts through media platforms and tools like CNN's iconic Fear and Greed Index, which he helped develop. Across various sectors of finance, Jason's experiences highlight the human element alongside technical progress.   SHOW HIGHLIGHTS Jason Meshnick talks about his transition from being a market maker on Wall Street to becoming a fintech expert. We discuss the changes in trading desks from the early 2000s to the present, emphasizing the shift towards automation and a reduced number of traders. Jason describes his unconventional career path, moving from a philosophy major to a Wall Street trader, and his eventual move into fintech. Jason shares insights into the development of CNN's Fear and Greed Index, including the collaborative efforts and practical constraints faced during its creation. We explore the shift from floor trading to electronic markets and how enduring principles of market trading continue to influence career paths in finance. Jason recounts his personal and professional journey, including his move to Boulder, Colorado, and his involvement with the CFA Society. We dive into the intricacies of building decision trees for financial data analysis, comparing their transparency and reliability to large language models. Jason reflects on his editorial role at TheStreet.com and the importance of market sentiment analysis in shaping financial media platforms. We discuss the role of experience and a deep understanding of market nuances in successful investment strategies. Jason explains the seven indicators used in CNN's Fear and Greed Index and how this tool helps both sophisticated and retail investors make informed decisions.   PLUS: Whenever you're ready... here are three ways I can help you prepare for retirement:  1.  Listen to the Market Call Show Podcast or Watch on Youtube One of my favorite things to do is to talk with smart people about investing, financial planning, and how to live a full life.  I share this on my podcast the Market Call Show.  To watch on Youtube  – Click here   2.  Read the Financial Freedom Blueprint:  7 Steps to Accelerate Your Path to Prosperity If you're ready to accelerate your path to prosperity, the Financial Freedom Blueprint lays out a proven system for planning and investing to secure your financial independence. You can get a personalized signed hardcover copy – Click here 3.  Work with me one-on-one If you would like to talk with me about planning and investing for your future. – Click here TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)   Louis: Jason Meshnick how are you? Jason: I'm doing great, Lewis. It's so great to see you. Louis: I know I'm so glad to finally have you on the podcast. You know, just knowing you for so many years and you know, knowing that you have so much knowledge out there with regard to investing and just your overall creativity, I had to have you on and I'm so glad that you came on. Jason: Well, and one thing as you know from from our relationship, I've always gotten so much out of talking to you and I always learn something just through our conversations, and I feel like by the time this podcast is over, I will have five new ideas to to go after and try to figure out what to do, how to make them all reality oh god, I hope so, I hope so. Louis: it's all about the ideas you know exactly. It was funny. I asked you to send me a send me your bio and I've known you for a long time and we met years and years ago at a CFA meeting I think we were both on a board for the CFA Colorado or Denver chapter and and since then we've worked together in many capacities. But I didn't know a lot of things about you that I should have known just reading your bio. I knew that you spent 20 years in the fintech world and I didn't know that you were also working on some AI investment analysis, which I'd like to learn more about, and that you really have a lot of passion for educating. And I guess your coworkers asked you to write a newsletter. I had no idea about that and you know now what is this about. Vampires are rich. Why are vampires so rich? Jason: That was one of my favorite things that I wrote. Yeah, if you want to cover that now, we can, or we can talk later. Louis: I think we'll circle back to that, but I was a little what's that about. But yeah, and now you're doing some teaching at CU Boulder, teaching finance. We've done a little bit of lecturing together at the university level DU and things like that and I've always enjoyed watching you teach because you seem to captivate the kids. Well, they're not kids, they're young adults with your style. So I'd like to learn a little bit more about what you're doing there. And you are a Wall Street trader and market maker and there's a lot of things that you know about microstructure and investor psychology that I want to kind of touch on too. So, but the big thing is understanding that you were involved with the CNN, that popular feed and fear and greed index back in 2012, I guess that was put together. So I don't know. Maybe what we could do is talk a little bit about your background. I mean, I kind of covered it a little bit, but just maybe you can tell me a little bit about you know, share with the audience, your you know how you got in this business and kind of what's been your progression in this business. Jason: Yeah, so my guess is that everybody says this, but I came to it from a slightly different path, not that not that, you know, I didn't get out of college and immediately go to Wall Street, that's. That's a pretty normal path, right? But I was a philosophy major and I'm far from a philosopher. But I think what I took away from my undergrad as a philosophy major was just sort of a way of thinking, right, as opposed to being sort of a business person thinking only about money, it's more about thinking about other kinds of things and things that drive people and being able to draw from communication and trying to understand what people think and how they think and why they think, and I think it was one of the things that really fascinated me. Also, being a child of the 80s, you know Wall Street was so important. There's so many movies about it, right from from the Wall Street movie to I don't know. It seemed like every other movie that came out was about how to make millions of dollars on Wall Street, and so, of course, I wanted to be part of that. Having grown up in sort of a backwater, poughkeepsie, new York, I always wanted to go live in the big city, yeah, so that was sort of my start, was coming at it from kind of a weird direction and I ended up immediately going to work for well, a firm that no longer exists for a couple of reasons, but it was the trading arm of a New York specialist firm. So the specialists were downstairs on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange and my boss was one of their customers and he just worked upstairs in their clearing division and he was trading his own money. He had been a floor broker for 20 years, owned two seats, sold his seats, did pretty well on them, and then decided that he was just going to live the rest of his life as a trader. He brought his son in and then eventually I was working as a runner so you know fourteen thousand dollars a year and just wanted exposure, just wanted to be part of the action. Right, I love the action. I was so excited about just being there, the history I love the history of things. Um, I probably should have been a history major and so, just being in that environment, I ended up getting picked up because I was. I was pretty cheap, right, so they didn't have to pay me much and I ended up working and really falling in love with being a trader and learning about how the market worked and how floor brokers could help make these trades. We had a network of 20 floor brokers across the New York Stock Exchange and what was then called the Amex, and some of the regional exchanges too, so that we could trade and we'd strategize every morning and then make our buy and sell decisions and then, throughout the day, update them as needed. I'd like to say that we were the high frequency traders of the time, even though our frequency wasn't that fast, but we were sitting on both sides of the bid and the offer. Louis: Boy. Jason: times have changed, huh offer Boy times have changed huh yeah, I mean that's yeah, I like to say. When I, when I started in the business, there were people there who'd been on the floor in 1929. And so much of the floor of the New York Stock Exchange looked the same as it did in 19,. You know, if you, if you were to go, take Jesse Livermore and drop him, you know from 1929 and just drop him on the floor in 1992 when I started, he'd have been like I don't know what these TV things are that are all around. He wouldn't have even had that word, but otherwise he'd have been able to run into a crowd and know exactly what to do. And by the time I left in 2002, well, there wasn't even a crowd, right? I mean, everything was different about the floor of the exchange. I was a market maker on a fully electronic stock exchange, so the principles were all the same, but everything else had changed. It was so different. Louis: Oh, that's a big part of what I wanted to talk to you about that the principles are all the same. So, because I was just listening back to some of our, or looking back at some of our conversations just to prepare for this, and we've had a lot of conversations in the past where you were really outlining like I want to capture what I saw, those principles that I saw on the floor, and I want to capture them today and that's kind of driven a lot of things that you've done. So maybe maybe you can tell me like just a handful of what those principles are that you've noticed are like still the same now that probably will never change. Jason: Well, so I'll caveat this by saying I've been out of the markets for a number of years, right, so I left, I left trading in 2002. And then I was still, you know, still kind of a pretty active trader, investor for the next 10 years or so. But then life gets in the way and I'm just very busy, and so I've sort of shifted my focus in a number of ways and I'm honestly really interested in analysis now and thinking about market sentiment and what investors are doing and how investors think about the market. And I now, when I trade, it's opportunistically right, I'm not in there every day, I'm not trying to make eighths or even pennies. Louis: I guess we should probably. Oh, I'm sorry to interrupt you there. Jason: Go ahead. Louis: I was just gonna say I guess we should probably back up a little bit and talk a little bit about, like more about your career progression, because you moved into from trading into fintech and, and from fintech now to working at the streetcom for and as an editor, so, and which to me makes a hundred percent sense. Um, just from what I know from your talent, your talent stack, so maybe you can kind of finish that progression a little bit. So, to where you are now, yeah, sorry, yeah, totally. Jason: So my progression is really. I mean, there's there's a couple things that run through the entire thing and I think a big part of it is analysis and being excited about, about thinking about the markets right, about being being in some ways just part of the culture of it right. So that's been the big thing that's run through my entire career. But in 2002, my wife and I we weren't married at the time we were thinking about you know where will we end up, and we decided that we either end up in New Jersey or we could move somewhere that we wanted to live. So we did a search all around the country and decided we just sort of threw a dart at the at the wall and said Colorado seems pretty nice. So we ended up here in Colorado and it's been the best move. Louis: Man, that was a lucky dart throw. If you ask me, it's a lucky dart throw, I think. Jason: I think it was guided by my wife's hand. She may have said I'll take that dart and I'm going to place it right here just at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. So she'd been out here and visited and said Boulder is going to be the place where Jason will be happy and we'll make this happen. And so we moved out here without jobs. I quit my job as a market maker in June of 2002. And the market was changing so much at that time it was definitely becoming harder to make money, and so I was ready for a change. I was ready to do something different. You know, when I left, there were 10 traders on my desk and probably another 30, 20, 30 on our over-the-counter desk. And when I went back, seven or eight years later and I'll get to this, but when, when I was working in FinTech and I went back, visited my old trading desk, there were three people and a really large computer and, rather than taking directional bets on the market, they were doing arbitrage. And they were. They were, they were working the order flow and they were figuring out, based on the order flow, how long or short they were going to be. You know, sort of using quantitative methods to understand. If they felt the market was going up and they were going to end up being more short and more short, they would have to think about the Delta to the market and try to get long ahead of those people so they could be selling to them. So it became in some ways probably a much more intellectually engaging thing than just sitting saying, oh someone just sold me 1,000 shares, I have to get out of it now. You were thinking ahead of the market. In many ways it was really cool. I probably would have liked it a lot, but it just became a really different animal. It was much more arbitrage as opposed to directional trading, which is really what I knew. So we moved to Colorado without jobs and in doing that that's when I met you, lewis is. I was pretty engaged with the CFA Society despite not having a CFA I'll throw that out there. I'd also just finished my MBA at NYU. That counts. So, I think they let me in, but that was about it, and they let me even onto the board. Louis: Yeah, yeah, you're a very likable guy, so it was a pretty easy decision. They're like he doesn't have a CFA, but he's a pretty cool guy. We'll let him in anyway. Jason: I think he also said this is a guy that we can make do all the all the programming. We can make him call all the all the people that we don't want to call and try to organize meetings. And they thought I was an event planner, which it turns out I'm not. I'm just not a good event planner. My wife can tell you that Actually, lois, you did kind of the same. We were organizing all the CMT meetings. Louis: Oh yeah. Jason: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's, let's go call some people, um, yeah, but so so it took a while and I ended up finding this job here in boulder, uh, for a company called wall street on demand and for those who are not familiar with wall street on demand, it has a new name um, it became market, uh, no, became wall street on. It was wall street on demand. Then it became market on demand once I, once market bought us and then eventually it became market on demand once market bought us, and then eventually it became market digital, when they decided that it was really time to think more broadly than just web and think broadly across all digital formats video, et cetera, and advertising. And I stayed there for 19 years. Where, louis, you touched on the AI side of what I did and so this is one of my big jokes is that I like to say that I was the world's most widely read analyst, if not the best, and the reason why I say that is because over the 19 years that I was at that company, I built something like I don't know 200 different. I call them only because of today's terminology and the way that people talk about markets now, about technology now. I call these AI related, and they really are simple. They're very much rules-based AI, so sort of traditional AI, not these large language models that we have now that are in some ways more sophisticated but really not as good. So what I was building were these big decision trees, and these decision trees were things where you would, using your financial knowledge, you would say, okay, I'm looking at some financial data around a company. What do we need to know? Well, let's start with the valuation. Is the stock what's the PE ratio? Is it a high PE ratio or a low PE ratio? How do you define a high PE ratio? Is a high PE compared to its average for the last five years, or is it the highest in its industry? Right, you can look at things cross-sectionally or historically, right, but both ways time-based or versus peers, and so we would do things like that and we would chop up the market and try to understand. You know which stocks were good or bad, but it wasn't necessarily for an investment perspective, right? This was because what we were doing was for the Schwab's and TD Ameritrade's and all those companies. We were building the news and research portions of their website, and so I and my team were providing that research, and so a lot of the texts that you would see on that site was completely dynamically generated. So, very simple, rules-based AI. And I say it's better than large language models for AI, because large language models you never really know what you're going to get. It's a bit of a black box, right. So what we could do is I would create text that was locked down. I knew exactly what it was going to say. I didn't know what the data was that was going into it, right, I didn't know if Apple had a high PE ratio or a low PE ratio, but I had rules around defining what was high and low. And so when I would go to the compliance departments at Schwab or TD Ameritrade or Fidelity, et cetera we worked with all the US brokers, many of the Canadian brokers, australia, others I would go to the compliance departments and they would say, well, how do I know that you're not going to say something silly or that's incorrect? And I said, well, I'm going to give you the entire decision tree and you're going to be able to look at the decision tree and understand what it says. So the only way that my model can be wrong is if I have a bug and there are bugs all over the internet, so I'm as fallible as anybody else, but we're going to do our best not to have those. And then, secondly, if the data is wrong and if the data is wrong, well it's wrong all over the website too, and we're going to fix that. But generally, 99.9% of the time, for 99.9% of the stocks, what we say is going to be accurate. It's going to be correct, it is going to be as unbiased as possible, because I'm not trying to tell you, as a value investor or growth investor or whatever, what you should do. I'm just trying to describe the various aspects of the stock. I wasn't there to give you a buy, sell hold recommendation. I was purely there to help you, as a self-directed investor, understand more about the stock, about the company. You know you brought up something that's really interesting about that. Louis: I mean, I have to. You know you're talking about large language models and it's a little bit of a black box. We don't really quite know, and you're dealing with these big decision trees, or you were at that time and it was traceable, like you could trace the logic which made me think, okay, we have data and the data can be right or wrong, and then you have the logic, and the logic can be right or wrong. And I think that's one of the things that I always have a little. I'm having a little bit of an issue with with some of the AI is the logic element of it, because you like how much of it is curve, fitting what is real behind it, so we could use it. I had a tech executive tell me one time that the big thing with AI is it can help us with speed and it can help us with accuracy if we use it correctly. But it's not necessarily like you still need human thought. You still need that ultimate human element to it. That's my personal opinion on that. But the fact that you were using decision trees early on, you know that and just to get information, that way you were speeding the process for the investor, basically. Jason: Right. Louis: Like they would spend a lot of time looking for all those things. But you systematically sped it up, which is a a big thing for and we and we all have that now that's and it's, there's just like different flavors of it, um, so, uh, it's, it's that whole. It's a whole. Nother topic we can get into a little bit later. But I, I, uh, I remember you talking about that when you were doing working on those projects, um, wondering where it would go next. Um, you know, as far as that goes, but getting back to your, getting back to your, your story, let's get back to your story. Yeah, sorry, keep getting off track. Yeah, that's okay, yeah. Jason: So while I was at that job I did, I did a number of things. I mean it was really, it was really an exciting job in so many ways. But the two big things that I did were really this you know, running the natural language generation product right. This thing we called it smart text, um, and so that's that ai thing. But then the other thing that I was so excited about was doing education right and and our. So this started back in 2006 or 7, um, I started doing brown bag lunches where I would just put together a presentation and teach our developers and designers and engineers all about everything they needed to know about investing, not so they could go out and make a million dollars, but rather so that when they were building the tools that we were all using, they understood their subject matter right, that they could be engaged with the topic and identify with the end user and really understand why a PE ratio mattered or why a chart mattered. Simple thing, like in design, you'll notice that there's a lot of white space on many pages and they talk about that as being good design. It's actually a really bad design for investors and the reason is well, depending on the type of investors, but for slightly more active investors, engaged investors, what they want is information dense things, and so I would help steer our design team to create things that were a little bit more information dense, an example being a chart, a price chart. You don't want to have to scroll up and down too much to be able to read your price chart on your Schwab account. You want to be able to type in NVIDIA and load up a couple of indicators that you want to see. Put your MACD on and then MACD is a lower indicator, maybe an RSI, maybe whatever Put those things on there and be able to, in one view, understand the trend, momentum, volume and volatility from that stock right. That was another thing that we did when we rebuilt Schwab's charts. I'm kind of proud to say that Yahoo actually stole this, but we broke the indicators out. Previous big charts started this. They said indicators are either separated out as upper indicators or lower indicators, and that doesn't tell you anything, and I'll credit John Bollinger. I learned all this from him is really you know, people should understand what goes into the indicators. They should understand as much of the calculation as possible, right, what the inputs are and what it's giving, what information it's giving you, right, and then separate those out into different sort of you know I'm using the term factors very loosely but into the different factors of technical analysis. So, is it trend, is it momentum-based, is it volume, volatility you can come up with others as well but, right, where does it fit? And if you're looking, if you put a bunch of indicators on a chart and it turns out that they're all trend indicators, well, you really have one indicator and so you're not getting a full picture. So go put some momentum indicators on there to understand the speed and whether the trend is about to be exhausted or not. So it's things like that that I really wanted to help both the end user of our products as well as the the, the person who was building the products, understand so. So I ended up writing for about three or four years. So we started that in 2007, but it was. They asked me to put it on hold after a while cause it was taking away from a lot of my work. And then, in 2018, our CEO came to me and she said you know, you used to do this, these brown bag lunches. I would really like it if you would just write. Just write a newsletter for the whole company. The question of the week, so Fridays. I'd ask the question, and it might be how many? How many stocks are there in the S&P 500? And I haven't looked at the number recently, but I think the number is still 501, right, it might even be higher, but there's only 500 companies in the S&P 500. And so that's the distinction. There's 500 companies, but some companies have multiple classes of stock that may be in the S&P. It might be 505 now I can't remember. I have not looked in a long time, but that was effectively the answer, and so it became just a really fun thing to write the answer, and so it became just a really fun thing to write. Yeah, so teaching people about vampires right, became a way of telling them. Why are vampires so rich? It's simple They've been investing for hundreds of years and so they've had time to let their money compound. Assuming that Vlad the Impaler, the first vampire, he was a prince. Let's just put a number on that $10,000 in today's money. What does $10,000 grow to over 500 years? It grows to trillions of dollars. And then, if you spend 1% of that every year, how much money are vampires spending? Today, vampires are spending billions of dollars. Vampires are probably supporting our economy. Louis: They've got to be the richest people in the world. It's like puts vampires, yeah yeah, it puts elon musk to shame, I mean really so maybe elon's a vampire yeah, you never know, maybe a little similar, I don't know. That's that's wild. Well, um, so you have this creative side to you. That's that's driven that. And then how did you get um, like, was it just a natural progression for you to do what you're doing now? Jason: or maybe you should tell us a little bit about what you're doing now yeah, so so let's get to what I'm doing now, because that's important and I know that, um, they'll be watching this and they'll they'll kill me if I don't talk about what I'm doing now, because they also really like it. Um, I'm having a lot of fun. So, you know, you go through ups and downs in your career and I definitely there were times when I absolutely loved trading and absolutely hated, and that might be the same day. I might love and hate trading. Louis: In. Jason: FinTech it was. I might love a year and hate the next year and, you know, love the next year for that. It was project to project and here you know right now what we're doing. So I work for I'm currently the managing editor of the street pro and so so you are probably familiar with the street. Jim Cramer founded it back in I don't know 1997 or 1998. It was really the first, the first and best of its type where you could come and get financial news and information. And then, not long after they started the street, they brought, they created something called real money where they brought in people like Helene Meisler and and Doug Cass and they would create something that was more of a subscription product but more of a newsletter, newsletter product where Helene would write top stocks is what it became and Helene would write her brand of you know market sentiment analysis and it was really great. And Jim Cramer left about two years ago and I've never met Cramer. I've heard him speak before but I don't know Cramer, don't know a lot about him. But I'll say this is a business that was 25 years old or is 25 years old now, and it's going through a lot of change. So we're trying to figure out what will it look like in the future. And one of the big things I love this I quote it all the time but Barry Ritholtz was one of our. I believe he was a street contributor at one point. Barry Ritholtz has gone on to become a Bloomberg contributor and have his own money management firm, but earlier in his career, I'd say, he made his name at the street, as did a lot of people, and so he calls the street the Motown of Finance and he says that the Jim Cramer was sort of this I think the name is Barry Gordy character who you know sort of larger than life in many ways, and he brought people in, brought people in and he made them stars right, and so we did the same thing, or he did that at the street, and so we're in the process now of trying to do that again. We have great contributors. They're all wonderful and they provide really great perspectives on the market, and sometimes they disagree and sometimes they agree. I asked a few of them to write about GameStop recently and it was really great to see the kinds of things that I got. But we want to get back and we want to make these people, we want to make our contributors, who are such great analysts, stars again, right. So we're trying to change a lot of things that we do in the business. In the past it was really Jim Cramer. The last five years, I'd say, jim Cramer became our number one star. I want Helene and Doug and Sarge and Rev Shark and I could go through the whole list Chris Versace I want them all to be stars too, and they want to be stars and they are because they're so good. So we're working at how we can do that, how we can elevate the content, not just to make the contributor stars, but really to showcase how good they are as we go and help more investors to be self-directed investors, be more successful in their trading and investing. And I say we have two different types of products, really Our value add. If you are a trader, a self-directed trader, you might spend your time on Doug Cass's community, right? So Doug has his daily diary. Doug's a hedge fund manager. He's out there from three o'clock in the morning. He's sending us stuff. It's crazy. The editors have to be there editing and putting it up from. They start at 5.30. So the editors are in there at 5.30 in the morning putting Doug's ideas up all the way through the end of the trading day, and then in the lower half of that page is a community where we have many, many people from the community, some of which I won't say any of their names, but some of which are fairly big names in finance and investing. We know who they are. On the site they really the community ends up feeding on itself and providing great ideas just among each other. There's one guy who talks a lot about cryptocurrencies. We don't have a lot of cryptocurrency content on the site. We're working, we're going to be adding some, but this one person alone actually provides some of the best crypto content I've ever written, and he's paying us right now, at least for now us right now, at least for now. And so the other products that we have. We have where you can get trading ideas or investing ideas. We have some people who are a little bit more technical focused, some who are more fundamental focused. We have one person who does really well providing dividend ideas. Another person is really great at more fundamental, value-based ideas, but then we have a whole portfolio. You can come to us and we have Chris Versace runs our pro portfolio, where we help investors understand not only how to put together a portfolio and they can just copy this entire portfolio but, the thing I love about it most, every week Chris writes a weekly update talking about what he sees in the market, what's coming up, economic things that are happening. But then he goes through all 30 holdings. He tells you the investment thesis you know I'm big on the investment thesis, lewis right, you should have a thesis, you should know why you're investing something and you should update it frequently. Right, chris updates the investment thesis every week. And then he tells you what his target price is and his panic point, his stop right, where he's going to realize that his thesis is incorrect and he's going to re-evaluate, probably sell the position. And then he just goes through and gives you sort of a weekly update and says, yeah, here's what happened in NVIDIA. Jensen Wan was out doing whatever he did. He spoke to these people. So that's what we're doing and the product is great and we're, you know, really excited. Now we have a lot of energy around what we're doing and how we're, how we're rebuilding, um, building I keep saying rebuilding like really we're taking what we had, which was a solid product, and we're just building off of it. We have, uh, later this month this will be the first time I've kind of mentioned this Um month this will be the first time I've kind of mentioned this Our marketing team doesn't even know but later this month we're doing a roundup, or we're actually calling it the quarterly call. So this will be the end of every quarter. Now we're going to have four of our contributors come on and really just talk about what they see in the market and have kind of a little panel discussion, and so that'll be really exciting, but it's things like that that we want to do. Louis: Yeah, it's good to hear the actual real time discussion, you know, because you get more color about it. But I love what you said about the Motown or the. Who is it? Who said a Barry Ritholtz? Jason: Barry Ritholtz. Louis: Yeah, I said that. I mean I thought I had so many like visions in my head because, you know, I'm a musician too and I I'm thinking about motown. I fell in love with motown as a young kid. My parents listened to it and the first thing that I thought about was that these, a lot of these people that were, uh, involved in motown, they were, they were completely isolated from the music industry. So so you know, you can find a lot of talent outside of, people that are like right in the mainstream of the music and of the Wall Street, kind of normative Wall Street. I mean you have to do something different really to be unique like that. And sometimes I think groupthink hurts Wall Street. In fact, I was just telling my wife this morning. I got out of the shower and I said you know what, in a way, wall Street is kind of like not even a thing anymore. Like you know, it's like I don't even think of Wall Street anymore as Wall Street. I mean last time I was there it didn't even seem like Wall Street to me. I mean it's still, it's still a thing mentally, but it's not. It's like I really think it's time for Motown. Jason: I think you guys are right in the thick of what we should be doing, because there's so many great thinkers that I run into who are not anywhere near the center of Wall Street, quote, unquote. So that's, yeah, one of the things I really want to steal comes from Chicago. So Morningstar in their quant reports. So if you have a Schwab account or any of these, they pretty much all have Morningstar's reports. These aren't the quant reports, I'm sorry, it's actually the ones that are handwritten by analysts, but on page I don't know two or three they have a module that says bulls say and bears say and they go through the bullish case of a stock and the bearish case of a stock, and that's something that I want to institute everywhere. Everybody should be with everything right. You talk politics, you should have a. You know what are the positives, what are the negatives. Whoever your candidate is doesn't matter. They have positive, they have negatives, that's right. You know your friends have positive, negatives. Like everything has a positive and a negative, and you have to look at both sides of the story, especially they say you shouldn't marry your investments Right. Know what the downsides are, Know what the risks are with everything you do. Louis: Wow, there's a lot there we could go into. Jason: I know yeah, as far as the no, no, not politics. Believe me, I mean we're staying away from politics. Louis: Yeah, we're staying away from that. You know, it's more like the I keep thinking of the narrative versus the numbers debate. I always say that I'm more interested in the numbers than the narrative. Like I start with the numbers and then go for the narrative and I think the older I get and the more I've seen, the more I realize that it's not the narrative necessarily, it's just understanding as much as you possibly can about what is true. It's hard to do and so much of investing is qualitative. You know, I mean you know my background. I do a lot of quant factor stuff and all that and that's really helpful in kind of keeping you honest. But at the end of the day, when I look at the stocks that have done really, really well for me, or macro trades like futures type oriented trades, it's been because I had some piece of knowledge and understanding about something that I just knew with a high conviction that was true and I stayed with it and it made a lot of money. So that is really hard. I don't think the quant sometimes leads you there, but it may not necessarily. It's not usually the end, like the end all be all, and a lot of times if you look at the best quantitative stuff it tends to turn over a ton. Right, it's like like momentum. Well, you know, you could say like, okay, I'm going to run momentum screens on stocks and the best parameter set is going to be me like turning over quite a bit. But then after tax and reality in the real world, you're really not making that as much as you would think, whereas you might find something that's gaining momentum that no one's talking about, like I bought not to talk about. I shouldn't talk about specific names right now, but there's a particular stock that I bought where I understood what was happening. It did come up in a momentum screen. It was a very small company at the time and then it just went ballistic. That now did I know it was going to ballistic? No, not to that degree. You know, I didn't think it was going to go up. You know 500% in, you know three months. But it's one of those things where you, if you know something, there's so much more to the narrative, so you go into the Motown aspect of things. There's value in that. We, we numbers are becoming a commodity, almost right. Everybody can get all these numbers and we can, we can move things around. Anybody can go on chat, gpt and, you know, pull, you know I get certain things. So I, you know, I don't know I'm becoming more of a qualitative guy the older I get. Is that that's weird? Jason: I have a theory on that. Let me know what you think. But I think that you are able to become a qualitative guy now because you have been a quantitative guy for so long and so because everything that you do there's, you know, there's a famous saying, it comes from consulting. I think you can't manage what you can't measure, and so everything that you've done as a quantitative person has been to measure, even when you run that quant screen and you get a list of stocks and you know that this list of stocks is going to turn over at the same time. You probably know well, this is going to turn over. But let's pick on NVIDIA. Nvidia is on the list right now and, because of these other things that I know through my experience, nvidia may come off in two weeks, but it's probably going to come back on in a month. I should just hold it Right, yeah, and so I think that you've spent so much time in the markets and it comes down to the word is experience. Right and that's why you hire a financial advisor. Or you hire, or you take a subscription to the Street Pro, or you want to get the experience of other people, especially as you're learning. Louis: Yeah, yeah. Jason: So now you can be. I was just going to say one thing. One thing is you can be sort of a core satellite where you can take your core investing, and maybe you want to be self-directed and buy a portfolio of ETFs, or you want to give that money to your financial advisor, give it to you, lewis, and then, with sort of the satellite funds, play money or whatever. You use your own experience Maybe it's in your own industry or whatever it is. You're trying to add that extra bit of alpha right and have fun maybe, but but keep yourself intellectually engaged. You have, you know, sort of the core of your portfolio over here and then kind of the rest of it where you can do things with as well. Louis: Yeah, I totally, I totally agree with that. So you know, this is just kind of getting me into this the fear and greed concept. You know you got involved with the fear and greed. I'm not, I'd like to hear the story about how you got involved in and what you, what you did in that. But when I think about the fear and greed index, I always think about that fish that's in the bowl and doesn't realize that he's in water and but you know, but if he steps outside and looks at he's like wow, I'm in water, right. That's kind of what sentiment is to me. It's like we're part of the sentiment, like we are, we're the observer. It's like the Heisenberg principle, like what we look at, we change, right, and that's sentiment, and fear and greed is kind of like a great overall, you know, easy to understand way of looking at that. But I guess I want to let's start off with your story, like how did you get into the fear and? Jason: greed project and what, what. What was your progression through that? So yeah, I mean, after coming from Wall Street, I'll tell a really quick story because I think this it's in it's in the article that I wrote too. But this story is a story from business school and I can't remember if the numbers are correct, but they're approximately correct and the timing is approximately correct. I was in business school, part-time, at night. I was working as a market maker during the day and then at night I was at NYU taking a class and this class was a valuation class and they asked us we had to come up with, we had to do a discounted cashflow analysis of a stock, and each group got to select whatever stock they wanted and I proposed to my group let's pick JDS Uniphase, because it was one of. It was the NVIDIA of its day. Oh yeah, hopefully NVIDIA will have a better future than JDSU did. But my group was all they said absolutely, let's do that one. And the stock was trading at I don't remember exactly, but probably about $165. Okay, and so we sit down and we do our analysis and we're doing discounted cashflow analysis and one of the big inputs to DCF is understanding the growth metrics right and forecasting growth. And forecasting growth means looking back historically, figuring out how fast the company has been growing and just saying you know, is it going to speed up or is it going to slow down? Eventually they all slow down. It will slow down, but you have to figure out how long that's going to take. So we did the analysis and we figured out it would slow down, I don't know, over 10 years or something. Something pretty reasonable, probably pretty generous as well, and we came up with a value Again. Remember the stock's trading at $165. We came up with a value of $2.25. And we looked at it and we said can't be, can't be. We learned in our last class the market's efficient, this is all wrong. I don't know. We did something wrong and so we went back and we now this time we went crazy. We're like this stock's going to speed up its growth. It's going to, instead of growing at 50% per year like it has been, it's going to grow at 100% forever. And we came up with a value of $225, right, and so the stock gets added to the S&P or maybe it was when they confirmed that it would be and the stock jumps to $225. It jumps to $235, I think was the high I sell my stock at like $225. Louis: And so we were right, that was a good trade. Jason: Good trade. And then we go and we present our research to our professor. And this is where it's really funny. The professor, who was so outrageously smart, could do any math problem in his head. But he's looking at us, he's laughing at us. He's like really, you think this thing is worth $2.20? We're like, yeah, here's the research, here's what we did. And he's just laughing at us. And then he says how could this company possibly be worth more than Apple? And Apple at the time was trading at $19, which, split adjusted, is probably something like negative 10 cents. And he said Apple has $16 in cash on its books and, whatever he's like, Apple is definitely worth more than JDS, Unipay. And, of course, this guy's probably retired on a private island somewhere. But what I took away from this whole story oh, and the other thing is we were right on both sides. We were right with $225 call because the stock traded to $235. And within two years the stock was trading at something like $2. So we were right on both ends. And so what I took from that was I'm not a great analyst and I'm not a great forecaster. I'm especially not a good forecaster. Okay, but what I can do is I can look at data and I can back into things and I can understand well, if I look at, if I calculate, if I back into, how do I get to $165 or $200 for JDS Uniphase? I look and I say, well, the market has really high expectations of this company and those expectations are nothing but sentiment. Nobody knows. Louis: I think that's all you need, though, jason, I actually don't think you need to be a great forecast Like that's really all you need. So, cause, if you know those extremes, you avoid mistakes, because the more I do this, the more I realize that's what it's about. You know, if you're going to put X number of units, and risk units if you will, in your portfolio, if you don't make a lot of mistakes and you compound reasonably, you're going to do great. It's just like reading. You know Warren Buffett always talks about read chapter eight and chapter 20 of the intelligent investor, which everyone should do, by the way. In fact, I'm set I send that book to clients and just say read this. You know that's what all it is about. I mean, that's basically what it's about what you just talked about right there. You don't really need to be a great forecaster. You just need to avoid a lot of mistakes and have a reasonable amount of diversification, not too much. And yeah, I mean you hear about people that have made like great calls consistently, and then the more you learn about them, the more you realize that there was something else part of the story. You know what I'm saying. There was another part of the story that you didn't really hear about, and a lot of it boils down to not avoiding mistakes, having discipline, risk management, things like that, but anyway, I got you off your topic. Jason: It's all risk. Yeah no, yeah, no, no, yeah, and it's. It's important to cut me off too, because I can. I can talk about certain things for too long, but I'll just. I'll just cut right to your question, which was fear and greed, yeah, yeah. And so how did I get to that? Literally, I, from that point in about 2000,. You know, I got much more interested in technical analysis and and, and I started thinking I'm not so much like a stock picker and I'm not so much into, you know, the MACD and the RSI. I'm much more quantitative. That's my interest in technicals. Technicals really helped me become more quantitative and more interested in looking at the big picture, understanding how to measure the big picture, and so I started looking at indicators and things that people like Ned Davis was doing. Right, I, I a big fan of Ned Davis, ned Davis's work. There's some other providers that were like that, sentiment traders Another one. I like all those, I like what they do and I started trying to replicate. You know, you don't know what their secret sauce is, although actually Ned Davis has a really good book. I'm looking at my bookshelf somewhere out there when Ned Davis's book is being right or making money. But then his chief strategist wrote another book where they actually go in and they tell you how to build a, build their, one of their sentiment indicators that has nine components to it. I was messing around with that, trying to figure out, trying to understand these indicators and understand the signals that they gave. And I hadn't around. That same time, cnn was one of our clients at what was then Wall Street On Demand and our CEO was out talking to them and he was talking to Lex Harris, who was their editor in chief, and Lex said you know, I don't know what this is, but I want to build something called the Fear and Greed Index. Can you help me? And Jim, our CEO, came back and he came to my team and he said so CNN has this kind of crazy idea. They want to build something called the Fear and Greed Index. What do you think has this kind of crazy idea? They want to build something called the fear and greed index? What do you think? And everyone on the team pushed away from the table. They're like what a bad idea. And I was left sitting there going they thought it was a bad idea. Yeah, they just you know they didn't get it. It wasn't what they do. I thought you were going to say mic drop. Louis: I literally thought you were going to say mic drop. Everybody said that's a great idea, let's jump on it. That surprises me. They looked at it. Jason: Yeah, they were like well, and they didn't know how to do it right. It wasn't what they were interested in. The team all had very different kinds of backgrounds, and I was the only one that had that more market-related background. The others were really more analysts Smart guys, great guys, but much more like. They could probably pick a stock better than I can, but they cannot tell you if we're in a bull market or a bear market. So I'm sitting there saying this is the greatest opportunity ever. And so they got me on the phone with CNN, with Lex, a day or two later, and we just started putting together ideas and Lex basically said look, I don't know what this thing is. You kind of know what I want to do. I just want something that really represents that quote that Warren Buffett says, which is you should be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful. So what, what is that? What does that look like? And so I just went and built it. Luckily, they gave me Jim. Our CEO's son was also a statistics major at Yale, and so for his summer internship that year, he sat with me and we went through and took all the indicators that I had put together and we did a principal component analysis, which is really important because you want to make sure, just like we said earlier, when you're looking at a stock chart, you want to make sure that your indicators aren't all trend indicators or all momentum indicators. The same thing, we want to make sure that each of the indicators, within fear and greed, didn't step on one another right, that they weren't saying the same thing, or really just that they worked well together, that they were each complementary, right? There were a couple indicators that I wanted to include that just didn't make it for budget reasons. Cnn is a media company. Media companies don't have huge budgets these days, so I couldn't do things like market valuation, s&p 500 valuation, or we wanted to use the, because by this point, market had bought us, and so I wanted to use the credit default swap index and I could only get end of day CVS data, not intraday, and so it just didn't fit with what we were doing. Um, so there were, there were some indicators that we left out that really would have been perfect and, um, you know, later on I got I got to use for other purposes, but not for the fear and greed index. But I got to use for other purposes, but not for the fear and greed index. But yeah, right now you know the fear and greed index, the seven indicators that are there, we selected one that is purely just the S&P 500, right, normalized. So we understand if it's sort of fear, you know, fearful or greedy. But then we have two that are breadth indicators. So how broad is the advance or decline? And is that moving in concert with the market or against the market? Then we have two that are options related the put-call ratio and the VIX. And then we have two that are bond market related One that compares the spread and yields between low-quality junk bonds and high-quality investment-grade bonds, as that spread is tightening. You see that investors are, you know they're more, they're seeking out risk because they think that they can get better returns. And then the last one is where we compare the returns on stocks to the return on bonds over a 20-day rolling period, total return as well. So for all these underlying indicators we're using ETFs. So this is actually something that can be replicated by anybody, but there are a lot of mechanics and calculations that go into it on the back end which make it. You know, if you are going to calculate it yourself, you got to be pretty sophisticated and be and have a pretty decent data feed. Yeah. Louis: Well, I love that. You know that was put in a scale that made sense and a categorization that made sense. It almost kind of makes sense the way that you did. It is like extreme fear, fear, neutral greed, extreme greed. These are things that we can understand and this is, I think, one of your biggest talents, actually. I think one of your biggest talents actually. You know, like you had said, we were looking for, we did principal component analysis, but we were looking for things that worked well together and complementary. As a quant geek, I would have just said non-correlated, you know or not. I would have used like big, long names of there's some statistical names that are you know to describe, that are like really long and stupid, sounding like to make no sense. I love the fact that you like that, you, you that's the. That is a great skill and I think to be able to take something that is complicated and make it accessible was one of the biggest, I guess, wins from this and it also helps people understand themselves, in my opinion, like if somebody goes and they look at this and they say, okay, right now I'm looking at the website. It says I'm on cnncom markets, fear and greed. It says it's got a number 48 and it says we're neutral but kind of tilting towards fear. So tell me a little bit about, like, how you would interpret this. I'm an investor right now. Let's say I have a reasonably good sized portfolio. I want to grow my wealth, but I also want to manage my risk. How would I? What would I use this for? How would I think about this? For like, really, like practically, how would I use this? Jason: Okay. So what does neutral mean? And neutral is really that center zone of I don't know what it is right. So the first thing I'll ask you to do and I know users or people who are watching or listening can't see this, but in the upper right corner you can see where it says overview and timeline. So the first thing I want you to do is click on timeline, okay, and what you'll see is a chart of the fear and greed index for the last two years. And especially when we are in this neutral area and we don't really know what the overarching sentiment is, it's important to look back over historically, just like we said with the PE ratio. Right, you can look back and compare to peers, or you can say how is it versus history, and so what we see is this 48 is an increase over where it has been. But, more importantly, we're sort of in this weird consolidation period. Fear and greed is just kind of ticking up and down, up and down. It's not really doing much of anything. So, however, we have dropped from a level of greed right Back before April and I'm going to pat myself on the back. I don't write much about fear and greed. I'm going to start, but I don't write much about fear and greed on our site. I did post in one of our little communities. I said, look, hey, just so you guys know. You don't really know me, but I built the Fear and Greed Index and here's what I've been watching Fear and Greed. It has just broken down. I think the market's going to break down with it, and you know my timing was amazing and the next day the market broke down. So, yeah, good for me, blind squirrel. But so what I like to do is I like to look and see and look for patterns and try to understand what is it doing and how does it compare to the market. So a few things, all right. What really matters is fear tends to be good. What happens when the indicator goes into fear or extreme fear? What we see is that standard deviation of returns. So the volatility of the market increases, and I think we're talking about forward volatility too, not like a month out, but days out if you want to measure it each day and sort of see what's happening. Volatility is just high when we are in extreme fear and fear because investors are nervous. What happens when investors are nervous? Good time to buy, right. The other thing is greed happens a lot. Okay, and greed is not necessarily a bad thing. Extreme greed is oftentimes a good thing. Okay, extreme greed tends to have. There's two times that extreme greed happens and one time is a great time and the other time is a high risk time. Okay, the great time is when we have been at extreme fear. The market has fallen maybe the market fell by 10% or something and we're starting to see a rebound and what you'll see oftentimes is the components of the fear and greed index spike and everything spikes, everything jumps up and we get to extreme greed because we've gone from a low level and all of a sudden, investors are committing new capital to the money. Investors are getting excited and we see extreme greed. Extreme greed is almost always good, except when, if we were in some kind of an uptrend okay, we've been, we're in an established uptrend, something good happens, the market kind of spikes. We don't. It's rare that we really see extreme greed during an uptrend, but let's say it happens. Well, that tends to be a period where probably just don't want to commit new capital right now. I probably want to take a breather, wait, because risk is higher. You know it's extreme fear to extreme greed, but really it's low risk to high risk. Louis: But sometimes, as you know, sometimes that greed can be really good too. The other thing yeah, go ahead, sorry, no, no, I was just going to say that reminds me of like the traditional technical interpretation of momentum is after you've had a bear market, you always get to an overbought situation. That doesn't mean the trend's over, it just means the trend's beginning, and it's almost the same concept. It seems like to me to some degree like you're looking for the extremes, but sometimes you have to interpret it the opposite way after a certain condition, after a bear market or after you've had really a lot of fear, and then it pops back up to greed, well, that doesn't mean the trend's over, that means we're just starting to go up again. Exactly yeah, and you have a continuation of the trend. Jason: Right, yeah, yeah, completely. And so with anything, with any indicator, you have to look at it in context right. Everything from an economic indicator, cpi, et cetera. Everything has to be looked at within context. And with that, I think you have to look at the context within the fear and greed index, and that's why there are the seven components, and I actually feel that the seven components are more valuable than that headline number, than the speed dial, right. So we start with and CNN came up with these names and I love it that they did that, because they are so much better at explaining things than I am and they really they said well, you know, here's who our user base is. We want this to be something that is a sophisticated trader can use it. And, as you know, as we heard Katie Stockton tell us several years ago, lots of hedge funds use the fear and greed index, right, they use it as one of their marks to understand what investors are doing. But they want it to be understandable by retail investors, by my dad hundred versus 125 day moving average just to see how far like what is the momentum right. Use that word, it's completely accurate. What is the momentum Is it? Is it so high that it's potentially exhaustive right now? It's so high that it's potentially exhaustive right when we and we normalize it both over the last six months. But then we also go back and we normalize it again over two years to say is that six month number that higher, low that we have? How does that compare where we've really been over a longer period of time? And then we look at, as I mentioned, two measures of stock price strength and stock price breadth. So market breadth we're looking at both 52 week highs and lows on the New York Stock Exchange and then the McClellan Volume Summation Index. So really is money flowing into stocks going up or money flowing into stocks going down? Louis: And what we see is both of those numbers are sitting at extreme fear. Because, those are great indicators. They're such great indicators. Yeah, I mean, I remember back in the day doing a ton of backtesting and those were some of the most robust indicators, all three of them, especially on the new highs it's actually new lows is actually more valuable, in my opinion, based on the research years ago, than the new highs, but just because it showed that extreme capitulation. But those are great and they are complimentary. One is like the number of stocks hitting highs or lows, and then the other one is more. The McClellan summation is also very valuable and it can be manipulated in so many different ways. So and I love that you have three dimensions to that and while you were telling me about this, what struck me is I always try to put things in perspective for the individual investor and for the. You know how they can think about these things and make it useful for them. And I think one of the things that could be useful with this, or is useful for this, is understanding how you're feeling. Like you know, if you've just gone through a period of angst with your portfolio and then you notice that this thing is at fear, right, well, everybody's being fearful and like it's like what are you going to do in your portfolio during that period, right? Well, everybody's being fearful and like it's like what. What are you going to do in your portfolio during that period of time? Jason: Exactly. Louis: You know what how? are just you know how you're feeling, like if you can step away like that fish in the fishbowl with in the water, you know and say, yeah, I'm in the water and you know, and, and this is what's happening, and what am I going to do? And stay level headed. I always talk about like staying level headed is the most important thing as an investor. It's like if I'm overly optimistic, I need to bring myself down and if I'm overly pessimistic, I need to bring myself up. Tom Basso mentioned that to me years ago, who was one of the market wizards. Jason: Right. Louis: Talking about doing that, and I've really that's been probably one of the market wizards, right, talking about doing that, and I've really that's been probably one of the most helpful things for me personally and for advising clients as well and managing money. Just it's. It's it sounds so simple. It's like oh yeah, I know that, but yeah, but do you do it? Jason: Exactly, and that's where it's important to have something that's quantitative and unbiased, right, and I'll tell you a story about that that confirms what you just said. But when we first, a few years after we launched Fear and Greed, I was talking with a financial advisor and he said, oh, I use this thing all the time with my clients and I love it. He said how do you use it? And he said, well, I introduced them all to it. And then, when they call me, when the market is down, wanting to sell their positions, wanting to reduce risk the market's already fallen by 10% or 20% and now they want to reduce risk he says, ok, hang on a sec, go to CNN Markets, fear and Greed. What do you see? And they say extreme fear. And he says, ok, what does that mean? And the client always says, okay, what does that mean? And and the client always says, oh, yeah, everybody's afraid right now. Yes, and what does that mean? That means I shouldn't panic. And hey, let me write you a check because this is a good time to invest. Louis: There you go. So one thing I noticed that's not on here is valuation, which is so hard to time valuation. So this is, you know, valuation. So if you put this in context with valuation, then I think you have a powerhouse, really, because absolutely yeah. Yeah, because then you have that long-term

A lot of the property managers we talk to who want to grow say the same thing, “I just need more leads.” In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the 6 major leaks that property managers can have in their sales pipeline and why they don't just “need more leads.” You'll Learn [06:22] 1. Positioning [10:14] 2. Perception [11:19] 3. Presence [15:30] 4. Pricing [18:18] 5. Purpose [20:24] 6. Pitch Tweetables “Does it make sense to turn on the hose full blast if there's all these leaks?” “People want to work with a specialist. They don't want to turn over their biggest assets ever and their financial future to somebody that's dabbling in property management.” “If your reviews are good, it backs up everything that you say in your sales pitch.” “Are you clear on your personal motivations for why you have this business beyond just getting money?” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: Get these things dialed in and shored up and what you'll find is: you may not need nearly as many leads. [00:00:05] You won't have to spend nearly as much money on advertising or any money.  [00:00:12] Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently than you are a DoorGrow property manager. [00:00:32] DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not, because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:00:54] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management growth experts, Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGroww, and now let's get into the show. [00:01:19] Sarah: We wore DoorGrow colors today.  [00:01:20] Jason: Oh, we did. For those  [00:01:22] that can see us. We're wearing DoorGrow colors. It's not on purpose. Yeah. Green and blue. All right.  [00:01:27] Sarah: I wanted something easy. It was like, let me get a comfortable dress that looks nice, but it's comfortable. Ladies know what I'm talking about. [00:01:34] They're like, "yeah, those are awesome. That's this." [00:01:37] Jason: Okay. It's good to know. So we were talking about what we should talk about today. And one of the things that I've been doing on sales calls in conversations with potential clients is taking them through a diagnosis and diagnosing the front end sales pipeline of their business. [00:01:56] The challenge is a lot of people come to us that want to grow. We're called DoorGrow. So we certainly can help with that. We've been doing that for a long time. One of the things we've noticed though, is that a lot of times people think, "I just need more leads." They just think they need more leads. And some of you are just going to be listening to this, so I'm not going to do a drawing, I'm going to explain what I would usually draw, but I usually draw like a spigot, or a faucet, or whatever you call it, and a hose attached to this, and this long hose, and then a like a plant pot at the end of this hose that you're trying to water a little tree or something. [00:02:30] And I usually put fruit on it because that's your business and you want to get something from it. Like you want it to bear fruit, like make you money or something. Right. And so we've got this tree we want to grow and we've got this pipeline. This is our sales pipeline, this hose. And we think we just need to turn on more water. [00:02:46] Right. It seems to make sense. What I've realized though, over time is we used to do lead generation for property managers. Like that was like a offering that we had, a core offering that we had for our clients. So we would help them just turn on the hose, like full blast. We'd help them turn that on and they wouldn't be able to get business. [00:03:05] They wouldn't be able to get enough water to grow their business. Like it wasn't working and it wasn't the leads. It wasn't the lead generation necessarily. It was the hose. They had like all these major leaks that were preventing it. So over time, I started to see like, they'd be like, "well, it's not working." [00:03:19] I'm like, "well, you're not even answering your phone," or "you're waiting 24 hours before responding to a lead. And it's only good for like 15 minutes." And there was just all these leaks and problems. And there were some bigger, more macro level problems in their sales pipeline. [00:03:32] Like their pricing was terrible, so it was off. Or their branding was off. And so people were like, "well, yeah, but they look like a real estate company," or their website was awful and it would send traffic to their website and it was just leaking money. And so the fluid, if you will, that flows through the pipeline. [00:03:51] Is five currencies, time, energy, focus, cash, and effort. These are what you have to invest. And if you're shelling out a bunch of money, time, energy, focus, all of these things, right into the pipeline because you're just turning it on full blast, it's just going to leak out and you're just wasting all of that. [00:04:09] You're wasting time. You're wasting money. You're wasting your energy. Right. And it, and a lot of businesses are like, "I just need more leads." So I call this the leads myth. And so we found it to be effective is to start looking at the business and if they come to us saying, "Hey, we want to grow." [00:04:24] "Okay. How would you like us to help?" They're like, "we need more leads." [00:04:27] "okay, you may need more leads, but first, does it make sense to turn on the hose full blast if there's all these leaks?" [00:04:34] "What leaks?" Right?  [00:04:35] "Okay, well, let's take a look at your business and see if you have any of these." So we thought today we would get into some of these leaks so you can self assess and figure out, all right, how's my business doing? [00:04:43] We're going to do the quick, super fast version of this. And I recommend you set up a longer call with our team so we can go through this. Okay?  [00:04:52] Sarah: Oh, or if you want the short, shorter version and you're like, "Hey, I want to see it. It's visual." then go to YouTube on our YouTube channel. We have a video that we created about this and our hose just died and like, I think it froze over the winter and we went to go turn it on and everything was leaking. So then we were like, "Oh, Well, before we throw the hose away let's make a video because this is what we talk about all the time." [00:05:16] Yeah. So we did make a video. So if you want to visually see this and watch Jason get water everywhere and make a big mess, then watch a video.  [00:05:25] Jason: It's pretty goofy. So if you wanna laugh at me or make fun of me, that'd be a good one to watch. So just go to youtube.com/doorgrow and go to the playlists that we have and then go to funny videos and I'm sure you'll enjoy laughing at me and Sarah laugh at ourselves, especially. [00:05:44] All right. So let's chat about this, these leaks. So these are some of the things that may be preventing you from closing as many deals, and you may have plenty of leads, but you may not be closing as many as you could be. And so these are some of the leaks. So, there's six major leaks that we focus on in our Rapid Revamp class, and if you're interested in this class where we help you shore up all of these leaks so that you can more easily grow more quickly without even changing whatever lead generation stuff that you're already doing or what's working, this will increase the output of what makes it through the hose and to grow your business Okay, so the first leak at the very beginning, and these are all blind spots the most businesses have is Positioning and so in positioning, we focus on the brand branding And so what are some of the things related to branding? [00:06:37] Sarah: Well, the big one that we see a lot, and we did a video about this too is what is the name of your company? Is it something "real estate, realty, properties, investments, assets, solutions," things like that. So if any of those is how your brand name ends. then that could be a very potential big issue in your branding. [00:07:05] And you could be turning people off before they even decide to have a conversation with you.  [00:07:10] Jason: Yeah. People want to work with a specialist. They don't want to turn over their biggest assets ever and their financial future to somebody that's dabbling in property management but is primarily focused on real estate. [00:07:21] So if you have realty real estate in your name, for example, you have a significant leak here. So if a hundred percent flow through would be the ideal, you have maybe a 50% right at this stage. There's this there's loss. Is your name generic to the location? For example, you're Phoenix Property Management in Phoenix. [00:07:39] Or is it generic to the industry like property management inc? Sorry guys. Or real property management, right? These things are really difficult to remember right generic names. And that hurts word of mouth and it hurts people telling people about your business and all that kind of stuff, right? [00:07:55] So is it unclear that it's property management? Like Sarah mentioned, like maybe we're "Prestige Properties or Radiant Rentals." Radient Rentals, "oh, do you do bouncy houses and like chairs and stuff for weddings?" Right. So there might be confusion there in the marketplace, or do you have a overly common name? Could be a problem. Like lighthouse, just Google lighthouse property management, and there's like a bazillion companies all over the place that want to be a lighthouse. [00:08:19] And so they all get mixed up and confused, right? Because property management is a kind of a global competition. Even if it's only focused on a local market, right? You're getting investors from overseas sometimes you're getting investors from out of state. And so if they're trying to find you, "Oh, well, they said their name's light- oh man. There's a lot of lighthouse. I don't know." Right. And these are just some of the challenges with branding that we teach in our branding secrets and helping clean that up.  [00:08:45] Sarah: Yeah. And one of the worst things is if they're looking for you and then they find a competitor instead, or they find the same or a very similar named company, but they're nowhere near your market. [00:08:59] Because then what happens is you're now connected to this other company. Even if you're like, "well, I'm in Tennessee and this other company, yeah, but they're in like Nevada." Well, Oh, okay. You would think the distance alone would be enough to separate the two, however, we have to remember that sometimes people make mistakes and sometimes people don't read, right? [00:09:22] So if an angry tenant from that other company is like so fuming and they get on and they're like, "I am leaving a horrible review" and it hits your company just because you have a similar name and they didn't bother to read. Now we have issues.  [00:09:36] Jason: And there's lots of other challenges. You could have your name, like some clever misspelled name, like a barbershop called haircutz with a Z. [00:09:43] Sarah: Like my biggest pet peeve.  [00:09:44] Jason: Like there's lots of ways you can screw up branding.  [00:09:47] Sarah: Spell things correctly. Don't get cute.  [00:09:49] Jason: Or acronyms. Acronyms aren't super effective. Like PMI. Sorry guys. All right. So let's go to the second leak. So give yourself a rating on that. Like just a quick judgment, like on a scale of zero to a hundred, how effective is your brand in being memorable and in word of mouth and whatnot? [00:10:07] So maybe it's 50%. Maybe it's totally off in the category. Maybe it's worse. Maybe it's like 20, 30%. Next perception. This is reputation. How are you perceived online? What are your ratings maybe on Yelp, on Google, on Facebook? How many reviews do you have in relation to your competition? And what is your rating? So quantity diversity, do you have reviews on lots of channels? How do you compare to your competition in your local market? Because people are going to check you out. They're going to judge you. And if your reviews are bad, even if everything else you do is amazing, this can put, be a significant clamp in the hose. [00:10:45] And if your reviews are good, it backs up everything that you say in your sales pitch.  [00:10:50] Sarah: And if you have no reviews at all, this is also an issue. Yeah. So sometimes people go, "Oh, well, like I'm brand new. I don't have any reviews, so I don't have that problem yet." It's still a problem. It's just a problem in a different way. [00:11:02] Jason: So let's go to number three. So give yourself a rating on that. Zero to a hundred. Where are you at in relation to your competition? Are you the best reviewed company in your market? Are you like somewhere in the middle? Are you the worst, right? Or do you have no reputation, right? How are you perceived? [00:11:17] All right. So you have a number there. All right. Number three, presence. This is the website, right? Your online presence. So there's a lot of different roles related to the website. I'll, I can throw out a couple, a few real quick. If you really want to grade your website, and not just like how much does Google like it? [00:11:36] Not that if you want to grade your website, how much people like it, how effective it is for capturing business, right? How big of a leak do you have in the hose? Go to doorgrow.com/quiz and take our website quiz and grade your website. Do this, you might have a brand new, beautiful, amazing website and it's like just hemorrhaging and leaking money. [00:11:59] All traffic feeds to the website, right? Your reviews feed to the website. Everything goes there. Your ads feed to the website. Take a look at this leak and get your grade and see what it is. And we're happy to then get on a call with you and tell you why your website sucks, help you figure out like how to make it better. [00:12:16] So, couple of quick things. It should answer three core questions like above the fold when they first land on the page, what you visibly can see in on the screen should answer that there are three core questions, which is, "do you do what I need in the place I need it? What do you do and where?" And second, "why should I choose you to do it over your competition?" And then third is "what do you want me to do?" There should be some sort of call to action. Most websites don't even have those three really basic things, three basic questions that people have. So that's a great starting point And then there's other things like how many menu items do you have? [00:12:54] If you have too many menu items, it actually decreases conversion rates. Do you have like distractions like social media icons and different things trying to send people away from your website which can decrease conversion rates and getting business and leads. Do you have trust symbols and social proof and testimonials and things that increase conversion rates? [00:13:14] Do you have a lead capture form on the page? We've studied this for well over a decade. We've studied this the top website companies that target and focus on property management try to copy our stuff without understanding the psychology behind it and try and copy our designs. [00:13:33] I believe we build the most effective and the most beautiful websites in the industry. And so if this is an issue, DoorGrow can help you with this. So, talk to us and get a new website.  [00:13:44] Sarah: Before we move on, I just learned this yesterday, I think yesterday or the day before. So if your website was once amazing. [00:13:51] And you're like, "no, my website is great. It's so awesome." But it's old. Then it's not doing you the good that you think it is. And maybe at one point it was, maybe it was so fantastic. But now all of a sudden, if things seem like they dried up a little bit, it could be that it needs a little bit of a refresh. [00:14:10] And apparently the shelf life on a website is about two to three years and then it needs. To be redone.  [00:14:17] Jason: Yeah, this is true. I've forgotten about this. I'm totally aware of this, but I just, I forgot that other people don't realize this. And so websites have a shelf life just like fashion does, just like anything else does. [00:14:30] And so websites start to look stale or out of date or old and create the perception of being old too. So a lot of people don't perceive that their website is actually looking stale and looking old and causing issues for them, right? [00:14:45] And people will perceive you, "Oh, this company's more modern and we're up to date or fresh or is with it or gets it, and this company it looks like they've been in business forever, maybe. They're using old techniques and they don't know what they're doing, right? So make sure your business is no older than maybe two to three years. [00:15:03] It's probably time.  [00:15:04] Sarah: Not your business. Your website.  [00:15:05] Jason: Yeah, sorry.  [00:15:06] Sarah: If your business is three years...  [00:15:09] Jason: just get rid of it. So if your website, usually people will go until about five years. By five years, it's usually visibly painful, and this is usually where business owners reach out to us for a new website. [00:15:22] If your website is five years old or older, it's due. And you know it, like you can look at it and go, "this doesn't look fresh." All right. So good point. All right, next is pricing.  [00:15:32] Sarah: I love the pricing calls that we do. They're so good.  [00:15:35] Jason: It's such a magic trick. [00:15:35] Sarah: And also people get stuck here for a really long time.  [00:15:39] Jason: Yeah, so most pricing, just to be clear, is set by companies focusing on the worst people in the market. They're focused on the cheapos and they're focused on what they can capture through internet marketing, which are the worst leads. And so the cheapos are really price sensitive. [00:15:56] So it creates this sort of downward race to the bottom in terms of price. So, most people typically do a 10 percent in most markets. Maybe a little less than that in really high rent markets, or they'll do some sort of flat fee. So, Most pricing is not good and it's probably similar to what everyone else in your market is doing, and so you look the same as everybody else. [00:16:17] So there's unique methodology in doing pricing. And so we focus on our unique blend of what we call a three tier hybrid pricing model, which focuses on three different types of buyers psychologically and creates a proper incentive to get more high rent properties, less lower end properties and it lowers your operational costs, right? [00:16:41] Because the higher rent properties generally have a lower operational costs and they make you more money. Right. And so your pricing model is probably unknowingly incentivizing you getting on some of the worst clients and the worst properties and not helping you to set yourself apart from the competition. [00:16:58] So we've never had anyone really come to us with good pricing, never. And so we've always helped people clean this up. And then they close more deals more easily at a higher price point. And you might think that's crazy, but that's what we do.  [00:17:11] Sarah: And they tell us that!  [00:17:12] Jason: Yeah. [00:17:12] Sarah: We're not just saying it. [00:17:14] Like our clients tell us that they're like, "Oh, I didn't think I was going to do this and I didn't want to and I didn't even think it was going to work, so I figured I'd try it and then i'll just change it back when it doesn't work," And every time, they are so surprised and they love it and they're like "man I really wish I did this sooner." [00:17:30] That would have been so much better if I did this.  [00:17:32] Jason: They usually get a significant number of their clients upgrading to a premium tier so they're making more money off their existing portfolio right away. And so usually pricing's this magic trick we can pull out of our hat that we can immediately pay for if they have a decent number of clients. [00:17:47] We can immediately pay for our program and our program's now basically free, right? So let's get into the next one. So rate your pricing, if it's typical of everybody else then maybe you give yourself, if you want you can give yourself a 60 70 percent or something like that, but I would say it's a 50 percent because the profit margin difference can be pretty significant, right? [00:18:08] But give yourself some sort of rating if you're cheaper than most of your competitors give yourself below a 50 percent Like you're worse than everybody else. So give yourself a number there. What's your leak? All right next:  [00:18:18] Purpose. This is the most important thing that we take clients through. This causes not just a leak in your sales pipeline, but it causes a leak with your team and a leak with financials. It's one of the greatest profitability hacks. [00:18:30] It's one of our greatest. Sales hacks, and it sounds like woo fluffy BS, but purpose is the most significant thing that we do in companies. And our clients tell us this was the most significant thing that we did. So what do you want to say about purpose?  [00:18:45] Sarah: Yeah. So this is usually where we start in our rapid revamp and then, and only then can we then continue on with the rest of the class because everything stems from this. So if you're trying to fix your pricing and you don't understand your company culture yet, it's not going to make sense because you're going to have to redo your pricing. If you're trying to fix your website and your branding and your online perception, but you haven't figured out. the foundation of where all of these other things come from, then it doesn't matter because you're going to have to go back and fix it anyway, because you don't really have clarity on that. But once you get clarity on that, everything else becomes so much easier now.  [00:19:23] Jason: Yeah. So the way to score this is, some questions you might ask are do you have maybe three or four core values defined? [00:19:31] If you have a lot more than that, then give yourself a lower score because that means really, it means nothing. Do you have a clearly defined mission for the business? Are you clear on who you're targeting and is it clearly defined and written down? Like, how do they know what a good client looks like versus a bad one? [00:19:46] Right. Are you clear on your personal motivations for why you have this business beyond just getting money? That in a way that you could relate it clearly your personal why? Are you clear on the business's purpose or your team? Right? So do you have a ceo decision making guide so others know how you think on your team, right? [00:20:03] There's a lot of different things that deliverables in the purpose Weeks in our rapid revamp that we help businesses define, and it changes the profitability. It changes everything in the business. So based on these questions, give yourself a rating on zero to 100 percent and figure out where you're at. [00:20:19] And if you don't have a lot of these things defined, then give yourself a pretty low grade, right? Next is pitch. So purpose feeds into the pitch and so you need those things defined. But what's your sales pitch like? Is it basically just answer questions and then hope they sign up? [00:20:35] Which is bad. That's pretty weak, right? Or do you, for example, like us have a four phase process that's systematically like getting clear on what they need and breaking things down and then figuring out like how to deal with objections and et cetera. Right. What's your sales pitch? How effective is it? [00:20:53] Do you have visuals that maybe facilitate that, et cetera? Right. So if you feel like you have a high close rate, right. But it's just warm leads like a referral. You're you have a really high close rate, that doesn't mean you have a good pitch. That doesn't mean you're good at selling. That just means they were a warm lead, right? [00:21:09] So in dealing with colder leads or where it's competitive or they're looking at you and several other competitors, how good are you at convincing them to use you over everybody else? May help you see how effective your pitch is right on colder leads or more lukewarm leads, right? So give yourself a rating on pitch. [00:21:25] Anything else related to pitch  [00:21:27] Sarah: So I'll just one more time reiterate the company culture, you can't have a good sales pitch if you don't first know your company culture. Yeah. So if you're like, "Oh wait, like my pitch is so good. I can close anybody." You're missing your company culture and you do not have that piece defined, there is no way that you can have a great sales pitch, at least in the way that we teach it. So we have the golden bridge formula. You can not do the golden bridge formula if you do not first understand your why and your business why. You don't have those two pieces? You're not doing the golden bridge. And without the golden bridge, sales just gets hard. It just gets hard. And then it's like, "well, like I don't want to be pushy, but also I want to close deals and I have to sell people and like, I don't know, I'm in this loop I don't understand why I can't close things and like, this should be easier." And then people go and they take a bunch of courses to learn how to do sales better. [00:22:23] You can just have a better sales pitch.  [00:22:25] Jason: Yeah. Good point. So to sum all this up, all of these leaks are leaks in trust. And if in your pitch, for example, you are trying to sell property management, you're selling the wrong product. Nobody really cares about property management. That's not what they want to buy. [00:22:42] And so what they really want to buy is peace of mind or safety and certainty. They want to buy, they're buying their trust in you. They want trust. And so all of these leaks in the pipeline relate to trust. They're all trust leaks, sales and deals happen. You could write this down, tattoo it on your forehead. [00:22:59] Don't do that. Put it up on your wall. Sales and deals happen at the speed of trust. And so if you have any of these major trust leaks, you are just wasting time, energy, money, focus, cash effort. Right. And so let's get these leaks all shored up. It doesn't make sense to keep putting blood transfusions into somebody when they have their arm chopped off and they're just hemorrhaging blood. [00:23:22] That's pretty gruesome, but  [00:23:24] Sarah: yeah  [00:23:24] Jason: Stop the bleeding first. And then, "Hey, it makes sense now. Now that we've stopped this major bleeding, let's now take care of things. Right?" And so get these things dialed in and shored up and what you'll find is: you may not need nearly as many leads. [00:23:39] You won't have to spend nearly as much money on advertising or any money. Our clients don't, most of them don't spend any money on ads or lead generation, and they actually had doors faster than their competitors that are. And so this is the starting point. Get this stuff cleaned up. It's like sharpening the ax first, before you go and chop down trees, do the smart thing first and everything else becomes easier. [00:23:59] And this really is lubricating your entire sales process. Everything flows through a lot easier. And so you could double your deals flowing through without changing any of your lead sources that you've already got going right now, just by shoring these up. And so get these blind spots dialed in and reach out to us at DoorGrow. [00:24:15] And we'll tell you about a rapid revamp program where we tackle each of these leaks in two weeks, two weeks for each leak. And so it's a 90 day program. It's really rapid and it will transform the front end of your business forever. Okay. That's it. So you can find us at DoorGrow. com and until next time to our mutual growth. [00:24:35] Bye everyone. [00:24:36] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:25:03] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

In May, we had our annual DoorGrow Live event! What makes DoorGrow Live different from other property management conferences? In today's episode, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull talk about our most recent DoorGrow Live conference and some of the topics discussed. You'll Learn [01:12] What was different about this year's DoorGrow Live? [04:48] Tactics vs. Mindset [06:41] Changing the order of your priorities [10:17] Hard choices, easy life Tweetables “Tactics and the how can always be figured out.” “It's not really the tactics that are the problem. It's almost always the mindset.” “The hard choice is to not go for what you immediately want, but to reorder and prioritize some things that are more relevant to the long term.” “If you don't like the results, then it's probably because your priorities are not in the right order.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: If you don't like the results, then it's probably because your priorities are not in the right order.  [00:00:08] Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. [00:00:53] We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management growth experts, Jason and Sarah Hall, the owners of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show. Okay.  [00:01:12] And so what we're going to be talking about today is we just had DoorGrow Live and DoorGrow Live was a success. It was a lot of fun and it was a little bit different this year. So how would you say it was different this year, Sarah?  [00:01:27] Sarah: So I think a lot of people were saying, "Hey, it feels like there was really just a lot of heart that went into this event." [00:01:35] So usually when I think you and I run events, we're very tactical. How do you do this? How do you do that? And let's share this strategy and let's talk about this thing. And this year we changed things up a little bit and you were maybe a little hesitant to follow the formula that I put together, might I add. [00:01:53] And so maybe on the podcast you can tell people that It worked?  [00:01:57] Jason: It worked.  [00:01:58] Sarah: And? Do you have anything else to say about that?  [00:02:00] Jason: Anyone that knows Sarah knows what she wants to hear right now. You were right. There it is! There it is. There it is. That's what she wanted. There it is.  [00:02:10] Sarah: So this year when I was putting together the schedule and the agenda, there was this whole plan that I had. [00:02:17] And I was like, "Oh no, we need to order things like this and do things like this. And this is what I wanted." And he's like, " I don't know if that's going to work. And why are we doing this whole thing? And we're like putting this whole thing together. And like, you don't even know if it's going to work the way you want." [00:02:30] Jason: Is this how I sound?  [00:02:31] Sarah: Yes.  [00:02:32] Jason: "I don't know if it's gonna work."  [00:02:34] Sarah: "I don't know if it's gonna work."  [00:02:36] Jason: That's totally what I sound like.  [00:02:38] Sarah: It was perfect.  [00:02:39] Jason: I'm shaking my head no, by the way, for the listeners.  [00:02:41] Sarah: See you probably, they probably didn't even know that was me talking. They just thought it was you.  [00:02:45] Jason: Oh, yeah. [00:02:46] You do such a good impersonation of me. I know. It's really quite impressive. I'll go back to my normal voice so that you realize it's Sarah talking. Yeah, for the listeners, we need to make sure there's two distinct voices or they're going to be really confused why I'm talking to myself because you sound so much like me. [00:03:03] Sarah: I know. I'm so sorry if I confused anyone.  [00:03:06] Jason: Nobody was confused. Okay. So...  [00:03:08] Sarah: so he was giving me a little bit of a hard time about it because I, like, made him sit down and map this out and I was like, "no, there's a formula that we're supposed to follow and this is what I want it to look like." And I think it worked out really well. [00:03:21] Jason: Yeah, the event went really well.  [00:03:23] Sarah: Yeah.  [00:03:24] Jason: Things ran pretty much like clockwork. That's hard. It's hard to do that in events. Like speakers go over, people don't stop. Like, we had this big, huge red LED clock right in front of the speaker. So it was like super obvious, like, and we, I think we had conversations with all the speakers, like everything worked pretty smoothly. [00:03:43] The general feedback I got from a lot of clients one of our clients, Ed Golding, came up to me and he was just smiling. He'd been to some previous ones and he said, "this was different, you know, what was different about this?" I said, "what, Ed? " He said, "heart, this one had heart." [00:03:56] And it was an emotional event. There was lot more emotion at this event. Did we talk about tactics? Yes. I explained how I've been able to leverage social media and different tools and, I've made millions of dollars off social media. And I shared some really cool tools and very tactical stuff. [00:04:12] That's how I opened up the event. But we got into a lot of mindset and what we've realized over time, that we talked about at the event that most of our clients are not winning or losing because they don't, or do have tactics. Tactics and the how can always be figured out. And I liked Jeff Garner's tattoo he talked about but....  [00:04:33] Sarah: he's funny.  [00:04:33] Jason: He's like, " can I say it? There's children present." I had my kids at the event.  [00:04:36] Sarah: They're my kids. Like they hear it all the time.  [00:04:40] Jason: Yeah, so he's got a tattoo that's FTH Which stands for "fuck the how" so and so a lot of times people are so worried about "how do I do this? How do I do this?" And we do share tactics. We do a lot of that at DoorGrow. However, It's not really the tactics that are the problem. It's almost always the mindset. And so whenever I teach tactics. I always am going into the why behind it and the mindset stuff. And when they start to understand this stuff, then they will actually do it usually. [00:05:13] So there was a lot of mindset at the event. And then also, there's vulnerability. Like I openly shared how I've been reevaluating my priorities and what those look like and how how that looks. You were sharing about your upbringing and how like the difficult things in life are also the things that make us who we are and help us to enable us to help others and how to view it through a different lens, which I thought was really awesome. [00:05:39] And everybody's crying. Sarah's making everybody cry. Like I was crying, like...  [00:05:44] Sarah: I made people cry in a very different way this time though. I'm usually making people cry because I'm yelling at them.  [00:05:50] Jason: That's not true.  [00:05:51] Sarah: It's a little true. It's a little true.  [00:05:54] Jason: Not our clients, just me.  [00:05:56] Sarah: No, I don't do, but I do give our clients tough love when they need it. [00:05:59] And Kelly came to the event and she's like, "this is exactly what I needed." I'm like, "I know that's why I was on you for like three months." [00:06:07] Jason: Yeah. I think some people had some breakthroughs, which that's the goal. Like we want to change lives. And so there's something just really beautiful about this DoorGrow Live. [00:06:16] There was a lot of more depth to it and I just feel grateful to be able to be part of it and to see, our clients that believe in us and that, that came in just seeing their progress and, there are people there that have been in our program for years, which is just. [00:06:29] It's really awesome to see. So, so I thought I would share just a little bit today about what I had shared and this will be a quick episode cause Sarah doesn't want me to go long. So this'll be a quick one.  [00:06:41] Sarah: Back to back today.  [00:06:42] Jason: You got a busy day. So what I shared is I talked a little bit about prioritization and I've talked about this previously, but what what was interesting, one of my breakthroughs recently was recognizing I was basically merging in my mind, the five basic needs. [00:06:57] Which I don't know who put that out. We learned it from our friend Roya.  [00:07:01] Sarah: But maybe it was... [00:07:02] Jason: maybe it's Tony Robbins. I don't know. So there's five basic needs and the five basic needs are love and belonging, power and achievement fun and adventure, fun and pleasure, safety and security. [00:07:15] Sarah: And I'll see when you put them in a weird order, then I don't remember them. Freedom and flexibility.  [00:07:20] Jason: Freedom and flexibility. Freedom. There we go. Yeah. Okay. These are five basic needs and we all have one that's primary. For Sarah, it's power and achievement. Nobody's surprised, right? For me, it's actually love and belonging. [00:07:33] And a lot of my achievement and a lot of the things that I do. Are to, that's what motivates that we're helping clients working with clients love and belonging and having that connection. That's why I like working with entrepreneurs because I don't feel like such a weirdo when I'm around other people that are that weird, that are also entrepreneurial. [00:07:51] But what I've come to realize that if I make that my highest priority, I tend to get less of it. And I think this is true for anyone with their basic need. If you really think about it, if Sarah just went after power and achievement. And didn't prioritize like relationships and other things, it could be pretty destructive and it would likely have the opposite desired effect in trying to achieve power and whatnot, right? [00:08:13] Because we need others. And then for me, if I'm just going after love and belonging, I would be less likely to get it. If I didn't have my own oxygen mass first, if I didn't have financial wealth and health, if I didn't have physical health then it wouldn't be nearly as effective. I wouldn't be nearly as present. [00:08:31] I wouldn't be able to enjoy much love and connection or belonging, in relationships. I wouldn't be able to feed into relationships as much if I weren't taking care of myself. And so based on that I, I had everybody map out or stack or list their priorities in their life, and then I showed how my priorities were listed and then Like what my natural inclination is placing like love and belonging at the top. [00:08:59] And then I showcased how I've intentionally consciously listed them and rearranged the priority and how that affects my decision making in my day to day so that I spend more of my time in my day to day moving towards the top priorities, which are not on my new adjusted priority list are not the love and connection related things related to family, sex, relationship, stuff like that. So above that, I've placed God at the top which is, for some of you that might be your highest ideal, whatever that is. And so I want to always be pointed towards my highest ideal. Second, I put power, achievement, impact, and that's related money status, all that. [00:09:41] And that allows me to have impact. Which leads to me getting what I want. It's a leading sort of thing. And then the next is health. I need to be prioritizing health. And then it gets into more of the relationship stuff in the priorities. Whereas before I was putting family, friends, fun was probably higher on the list, but I felt like I wasn't ever able to do as much of that as I wanted. [00:10:04] Because I was so focused on the other stuff. And so by reordering the priorities, it takes work. Like it takes effort to go towards what's easy and what's natural usually leads to a harder life. And so there's this stoic phrase that I like that is "hard choices, easy life. Easy choices, hard life." [00:10:26] And the hard choice is to not go for what you immediately want, but to reorder and prioritize some things that are more relevant to the long term, playing the long game, doing what maybe I feel deep down inside I should do connected when I'm connected to God or focusing on my health, doing the playing the long game instead of doing the short term, right? [00:10:49] The short term is like eat, Häagen Dazs vanilla ice cream, vanilla bean ice cream. It's like my favorite right now. I love that. Or whatever, right? When we're just trying to please our tongue and our genitals, we tend to have a much harder life, right? And this is the short term. We're just going for the short term gain. [00:11:05] And so we want to make sure we prioritize the long game, the long term. and give up where that means sacrifice in the short term. That means work. That means effort. And a lot of people just aren't putting in enough work or enough effort in the lazy people in society are the people that are always trying to please their tongue and their genitals. [00:11:24] Maybe it's crass, my crass way of saying it. Okay. It's a little gross. Okay. So that's what I shared at DoorGrow Live. And so I encourage all of you listening, like make a list. What are your priorities? And what I shared is your results reveal your priorities. So if you don't like the results in your life, write them down. [00:11:43] Like, what are your relationships like? What's your business like? What are you doing in the business? What aren't you doing in the business? Or what are you enjoying? What are you not enjoying? And if you don't like the results, then it's probably because your priorities are not in the right order. It doesn't mean you give up or change your priorities, right? All of the things that were my priorities before are still priorities for me. I've just rearranged the order and by just rearranging the order, it changes everything. It changes the results that you get and you'll get more of the results that you really desire if you rearrange those priorities in a way that probably will take you more effort and more work, but will allow you to get everything that you want in the long run. [00:12:28] So that was my message. That's the simple message. Rearrange your priorities figure out your basic need, put that lower on the list, and figure out what needs to come before in order for you to have as much of that as possible because I want you to enjoy your life, but you need to do make hard choices. [00:12:41] And you need to do hard things.  [00:12:43] But it was an awesome event and make sure you are keeping an eye on doorgrowlive.com for the future and make sure to attend in the future. [00:12:52] Everybody says our conferences are different than any other property management conference out there. And That's a good thing. Like we do it in a good way. So, I recommend you attend. So you can check out more details about future events at doorgrowlive.Com. And if you are wanting to grow your property management business and have success like our clients were showcasing at DoorGrow Live and grow your business, scale your operations, have a better lifestyle, enjoy your team more, enjoy your business, be less frustrated, have more peace, reach out to us at DoorGrow. You can check us out at DoorGrow.com. We would love to see if we can help you scale your business. And until next time to our mutual growth. Bye everyone. [00:13:36] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:14:02] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

As property managers you likely know a little bit about mortgages. But do you know about non-QM loan strategies and how your clients and investors can utilize them? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull sit down with Matt from Nexa Mortgage to talk about using non-QM strategies to unlock your portfolio's potential. You'll Learn [05:46] QM loans VS non-QM loans [16:14] Why Jason and Sarah went with non-QM [22:07] Which one should you choose? [26:46] Why should property managers know this? [32:23] What about long-term rentals Tweetables “If you have a great manager, it makes sense to get as many properties as you possibly can, knowing that they are in good hands and they are being taken care of because all you're doing is printing money.” “If you have a way that you can help your investor clients get what they want, which is more deals, it's a win.” “If you are a property manager, you should also be an investor in real estate.” “It's great to manage properties and let's do that and build wealth ourselves.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Sarah: He said, "I am not joking. I had to submit over 100 documents to the company in order to just see if I'm qualified to get this additional loan. And he's like, I just feel like there has to be an easier way." And there is, but sometimes people don't know about that.   [00:00:20] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. [00:00:39] DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management, growth experts, Jason and Sarah Hull, the CEO and COO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show.  [00:01:23] All right. And today we're hanging out with Matt Dean of Nexa Mortgage, and we're going to have an interesting conversation about financing and loans and I don't know, and some other stuff, but Matt welcome to the show.  [00:01:36] Matthew: Good morning. [00:01:37] Good morning. Thanks for having me.  [00:01:38] Jason: It's good to have you. So give us a little bit of background of how you got into the whole real estate industry and give people a little bit of background on you.  [00:01:49] Matthew: Sure. So, after I graduated from college, which I went to college in Missouri, I ended up moving to Austin, Texas, and one of the first jobs I got was with a commercial finance company and that landed me in Lakeway, which is where I reside now, and have been for over 15 years. But the commercial finance company that I worked with was was a fairly new company that came in from California. The owners Had a mortgage background and had gotten into this commercial finance division. [00:02:15] They had sold off a couple of mortgage companies opened up this division and Lakeway. They were also land developers and commercial finance guys. So they saw a lot of opportunity out here and opened up this company. So anyway, I got in on the ground floor. They were relocating the company here and had a couple year run with that. [00:02:31] And then in early 2000, the .Com kind of came in and blew up that whole industry. So what we were doing was commercial finance, equipment finance really, and at the time it was a lot of computer equipment and I was working with a lot of Dell sales reps that were taking over some of their overflow that Dell didn't want to finance. [00:02:49] So, when all that happened, and it blew up the owners who had the mortgage background really saw that "hey, we're going to see a refinance run here. The market's going to crash rates are going to come down. There's going to be a run." And so they immediately just flip. They had a mortgage company here, but it wasn't early. It was dormant. Yeah. And they flipped it open and and just started building that company out. And so that's ultimately how I got into the mortgage business. And, right after that, we had this really big refinance run. We grew that company very quickly to about 35 employees where we were doing 300 to 400 loans a month with a fairly small company. [00:03:27] And that just, jump straight in and learn the business. And so then in about 2007 ish, 2006 ish, I really got exposed to the investment world, so to speak. I got partnered up with a real estate brokerage here in Austin that focused on investment properties and primarily what they were focusing on was duplexes. [00:03:47] And so that year in 2006, I believe it closed 152 duplex transactions, and it was mainly California investors coming into Austin. And it really just changed my whole perspective of the mortgage industry as opposed to first time buyers or veterans, which I enjoy working with all those folks, but the commercial or the investment world, it's a different animal in that it's less emotion and more about business. And so I really just gravitated more to working with investors, started buying properties myself managed a few properties myself and then, evolved from there. But I worked with that same group and Lakeway for about 12 years and then moved around a couple of places and work for a builder and and a couple other companies. [00:04:29] But anyway, that's how I got in it, got started.  [00:04:31] Jason: Yeah, so you've seen it from a few different angles than the whole real estate investment industry, sounds like. [00:04:37] Matthew: Yeah, I've been through a few of these cycles of ups and downs. Obviously the refinance run early on was, really interesting, but a lot of good, easy money on the table, so to speak, but then we had the crash, which was a very difficult time for a couple of years, although, Austin weathered that storm pretty well relative to a lot of other areas of the country. [00:04:56] So, even though our volumes were down, our real estate didn't see as big of an equity loss and the job market here in Austin's always been really strong. So, it pulled us back out of it fairly quickly. We're in a situation now where rates are high and property values have gone up. [00:05:11] And it's a challenge for some folks here to purchase. A lot of folks are just priced out of the market and can't afford it. And property taxes aren't helping that situation.  [00:05:19] Jason: Yeah,  [00:05:20] Sarah: It's so pricey here. So pricey.  [00:05:22] Matthew: But we're starting to see a little bit of pull back on the values and the houses. It's a little bit more of a buyer's market now, but it still needs to come down a little bit, I think in my opinion, it's to balance the market again.  [00:05:34] Jason: Interesting. So the topic today is unlock your portfolio potential, non QM strategies for real estate investors. And for those that don't know what QM is, which I don't. So educate me. What's QM?  [00:05:47] Sarah: So I handled all of this stuff and Jason got to the closing table and he's like, "I'm an owner in the LLC, right?"  [00:05:54] Matthew: It's like, yeah, I barely talked to you along the way, but anyway, yeah, so let's talk a little bit about QM and how that all started. So, after the real estate crash in the 2006, 2007, eight ish area the CFPB was formed a consumer finance protection bureau, which took over the regulation with the mortgage industry. [00:06:12] It took them a few years, but in 2014 they implemented what was called TRID, which you may have heard that word, but it was where we got rid of the good faith estimate and integrated the new loan estimate and closing disclosure took over. And at that same point in time, the regulations came out and then classified conventional loans or reclassified them as qualified mortgages. [00:06:35] What that means really is the CFPB was trying to put protections in place to protect consumers and also strengthen guidelines to make sure that people or buyers had the ability to repay. So what that really meant was additional restrictions on ability to repay, debt ratio requirements, reserve assets, et cetera. [00:06:55] So, if you do a conventional loan, which is Fannie, Freddie. Those are considered qualified mortgages. They have additional protections in that you're maxed at the amount of fees you can charge a buyer. The APR has to be within guidelines within a maximum. So all those things are really for consumer protection, right? [00:07:14] At the same time, what caused the market crash before was what subprime mortgages. And so at the time, subprime mortgages initially had a place in the market. They really were good for investors because investors were putting money down, they had good credit typically, and they had reserve assets. [00:07:35] When the market shifted, and they started using subprime loans to qualify buyers for primary residences that really had no business buying homes is where it got in trouble. So after QM was announced or came out with CFPB, then they also had non QM loans. What that means is any loan that falls outside of the qualified mortgage guidelines, for whatever reason, can still be funded or it would fall within non QM. [00:07:59] Non QM just meant if you're a lender who does those type of loans, you're now required to hold additional reserve assets in your bank or your mortgage company per loan to cover for the potential higher risk and default.  [00:08:12] Jason: Okay.  [00:08:13] Matthew: And it took a few years from 2014. The market started to come out with products in 2015. [00:08:18] The industry was really not sure how to handle it. A lot of banks didn't want to even dive into it. And then it started to evolve. And "okay, there's a big market here." So now it's one of the fastest growing segments of the market and banks have realize or figured out how to meet the ability to repay guidelines with alternative methods, right? [00:08:41] So you don't have to have W2s and tax returns and pay stubs, which a conventional QM loan would require. Now, they look at different factor, like, 12 months business bank statements. I can look at a CPA prepared profit and loss statement, I can look at just the rent income on the property and that's what's classified or called DSCR. [00:09:03] And then also it's asset based loans where we just look at the asset and we turn the asset into a revenue stream. So that's really how non QM started and really what it is. It's just an alternative way of qualifying the mortgages that falls outside of the Fannie Freddie conventional type of loans. [00:09:21] Jason: Got it.  [00:09:21] Sarah: So what does that mean for investors? Because we have some investors that listen to us and we have some property managers who work with investors. So what would that mean for an investor that is looking to get into more investment properties?  [00:09:39] Matthew: Yeah, absolutely. So, the challenge that a lot of investors run into is a lot of them are self employed and a lot of them start accumulating property. [00:09:48] So if they fall into either one of those categories, either they're self employed. Or they've accumulated a lot of properties or both, right? The challenge becomes with qualified mortgages is from an income perspective, right? So good CPAs are going to try and shelter income for self employed borrowers and for investors by showing, minimal profits or minimal or losses on their properties. [00:10:11] And so, as investors start to accumulate more properties, it becomes more challenging to qualify for conventional loans, because for every property on a conventional loan, Fannie and Freddie want additional reserve assets. So that means you start getting 6 properties, you need assets for each one of those properties on top of down payment funds for the purchase property and the reserves on that property. [00:10:33] So, from two perspectives, either an income perspective, where we have a challenge again, a self employed borrower shows losses on his tax returns for the last 5 years by design, because he doesn't want to pay taxes, or we've got multiple properties also showing losses when I'm looking at income on a conventional loan basis, I have to use the income from the tax return. [00:10:52] So losses can be a problem. Also, the reserve requirements, so, taking into those two scenarios, you've got a self employed borrower that, let's say they, they have gross revenue of half a million dollars, but they're showing losses of, 50-60-70,000 dollars. We're just looking at 12 months bank statements in that case, which gives us gross revenue and then we back out of a factor of say, 25 to 30 percent for taxes and we use that as revenue or income to qualify. If we have an investor that, let's say, not necessarily self employed they have multiple rental properties that are basically just, showing losses and now their income is diminished to where they can't qualify. [00:11:32] Then we have the debt service coverage ratio programs. Like, we utilize with your property where we're looking at just the rent on the property. Right? So the rent the market rent or the short term rental just needs to cover the principal interest, taxes, insurance and fees. And so those are 2 products that we use and that's really how, I would say it helps investors in those scenarios. [00:11:54] The other products that we could look at are P& L products meaning that ACPA provides a P& L statement, and then we can use that income, or if they have significant assets just in investment funds and whatnot, we can turn that into a revenue stream. But the bottom line is it just eliminates the need for W 2s, tax returns, or pay stubs, and we look at other alternative income sources to qualify. [00:12:18] Sarah: It's funny. I was actually on Instagram the last week, I think. And there's this guy, he has a very large account and I can't remember his name. And he's very big on investing in real estate. And he said, "guys, like, I just need some help. I like I'm going through this whole process and you jumped through 10, 000 hoops." and he said, "I am not joking. I had to submit over 100 documents to the company in order to just see if I'm qualified to get this additional loan. And he's like, I just feel like there has to be an easier way." And there is, but sometimes people don't know about that. I still talk to investors and property managers and they don't know. [00:13:02] They're like, "I'm just too conventional. That's like what you do. That's like the normal thing that we're all trained and used to doing." So just knowing that there are other options that don't require all of these crazy hoops to jump through and all of this documentation and lots of red tape and underwriting. [00:13:22] It's not that it's eliminated. It's just that it's a lot easier of a process and especially if you're a savvy investor that takes a loss on your taxes, just because your tax return shows a loss, it doesn't actually mean that you're losing money, right? So there's a big difference there. So that plays a big part too. [00:13:43] Matthew: Yeah, there are investors. Sorry. I didn't mean to jump in there, but there are definitely investors that lean on that from a documentation standpoint. Right? They've been down this road. They have multiple properties and more properties, you have the more documentation you need to provide to try and qualify for those conventional loans and it just becomes more and more challenging. [00:14:00] And, even more so if you have a loan officer on the front end of that's trying to originate a loan, that isn't really versed in investment properties and doesn't know how to underwrite the tax returns, they can get in trouble. They look, "oh, I got good credit. I've got down payments." But when you try and pull together tax returns and the income from multiple properties and business losses and this and that, it becomes very complex. And it's honestly, a lot of loan officers don't even know how to look at that correctly. And so they just throw the file up. It goes to underwriting. And then 2 weeks later, they've got a problem. But I just closed a deal actually yesterday and it was ended up going non QM short term rental. And the gentleman is great credit owns his own businesses, owns multiple properties and schools here, but the documentation, because he owns, like, 8 companies and probably 7 or 8 rental properties, and he had a partner in this particular property that, It became so complicated with trying to pull some of that stuff together and also with the partner who wasn't necessarily as strong as him where it just made sense for us to go short term rental and move on. [00:15:07] And that's what we did. So we just made it easy. He was happy that he didn't have to continue to jump through all those hoops. And we were able to get the property done and close in about two and a half weeks.  [00:15:17] Jason: You said it made sense to go short term rental. You meant to go non QM. Is that what you meant? [00:15:21] Matthew: To go non QM. Yeah. We went short term rental income, which is non QM to qualify the income on the property. This happens to be a short term rental down on the Comal River and it's got great income. It just he had a private money loan on it when he purchased it needed to refinance the note was coming due and he just has a very complex financial situation. [00:15:43] And he got involved with a partner on this property that also created some challenges with that particular situation and just made it a lot easier to use him and go non QM short term rental income only and just get it done.  [00:15:54] Jason: So, would that be a DSCR loan going on the short term rental income? [00:15:59] Or is that different?  [00:15:59] Matthew: Yes, it is technically a DSCR loan, which means debt service coverage ratio. And this is what we utilize with your property as well, by the way. we're looking at either long term rents.  [00:16:10] Jason: We should tell that story, by the way, everyone listening has no clue. [00:16:13] Sarah: I know, right?  [00:16:14] Jason: Why don't we have Sarah explain like why we went this route, how we ended up talking with Matt and like how this all worked out.  [00:16:21] Sarah: Okay, let's do that. So, Jason, oddly proudly, he's like, "I've never owned a rental property and I've never managed a rental property. And I do this now." And I said, "this is nothing to be proud of. Like you're 46, you should own things. You should have assets." So like I, on the other hand, like I had, in my twenties, I started investing in real estate. So, Jason and I for a while have been saying like, "when are we going to get one together?" [00:16:48] Because we didn't have one yet and he never had one.  [00:16:51] Then also our circumstances in life have changed a little bit. And we thought " we need an additional property at this point." And we were in a unique situation where right now in Austin, I'll just start by saying long term rental is hard to make it make sense financially. [00:17:10] You're probably not going to cashflow.  [00:17:13] Jason: Yeah.  [00:17:13] Sarah: Not right now. Anyway, it's just, it's really hard because prices are high. And interest rates are also high. This is where we are. So we couldn't have possibly done a long term rental anyway, because we needed the property to have some personal use on it. [00:17:28] And we decided, "Hey, let's also use it for some of our DoorGrow events." Because every time that we do an event, We pay somebody else.  [00:17:37] So let's pay ourselves through that. So for that reason, it only can really be used as a short term rental property. So we decided, "Hey, there's these kind of three components." [00:17:48] And I'm really big on asset protection, meaning I need the property to be owned and deeded and financed in an LLC. So originally I was working with another agent. We've worked with him before on our primary home. He's a really great agent. I had asked him about, "can we fund it in the name of an LLC?" [00:18:09] And he said, "no you can't do that. It doesn't really work that way." And it seemed like he was just trying to talk us out of it. I even talked with that he typically uses and that we used on our, Home that we live in. And he said, "Oh no, yeah, we don't do properties in the LLC. It'll be in your name. And then after closing, we could do a quick claim and then like change the deed and put the deed in the LLC name." And I said, "okay, what about the mortgage?" And he said, "no. The mortgage stays in your name." And I said, "I'm out." Like that is where I'm out. You're piercing the veil. [00:18:44] All of my personal assets would now be exposed and on the line. And that completely defeats the purpose of having an LLC. And he was like, yeah, we just don't do that. I really don't think that's going to be a problem. So I said, "okay, do you know anybody now he's been in this business for like 20 or 30 years?" [00:19:02] "Do you know anybody that can do that?" And he said, "Oh, not really." So that was time to start looking for somebody else because I know that it can be done. I've done it in Pennsylvania. So there's no way that Texas can't do this. Texas is far ahead of Pennsylvania in a lot of different ways.  [00:19:19] Jason: So we found another agent. [00:19:20] Sarah: So we found another agent who then referred us to Matt and he said, "Hey, I know a guy. He's really great. And I'm pretty sure he can do what you need." So I said, "great. What's his information?" I had a conversation with Matt and he's like, "Oh, well, yeah, we can do that." And I said, "so you can put the loan in the LLC. Not my name, the LLC. He said yeah, we can do that." Like it was easy. So it can be done. Sometimes you just have to look around a little bit. So that was how our deal was structured. So we went non QM and we ended up doing, since it is a short term rental, we went DSCR so that the rents would cover essentially your PITI. [00:20:00] And this is how we made our deal work. So we closed PITI. [00:20:06] Jason: PITI for the listeners is...  [00:20:07] Sarah: principal interest taxes insurance. [00:20:11] Matthew: Yeah, so, I know that was how our conversation started was, " can we do this in the LLC?" And we walked through that and the pros and cons a little bit, I think, and that's one thing that conventional QM loans don't really not really, they don't allow that. You cannot fund in an LLC. [00:20:25] Now, what happens is a lot of people like you were advised, "hey, fund it in your name, slip it to the LLC later." That can cause some problems because Fannie Mae does have due on sale clauses in their loan documents. So, technically, if there's an ownership change, that note can be called due. Typically, you can just flip it back into your name and stop that process, but it becomes a cat and mouse game back and forth if you have a servicer that's trying to, exercise that for some reason, it doesn't happen very often. It's not a very high risk, but it's definitely something you need to be aware of. On the non QM side, the lenders want these, or most of them prefer them to be funded into LLCs because non QM as a whole is considered business purpose lending. [00:21:11] It falls outside of the consumer protection, finance protection Bureau oversight. So, it's considered or classified more of like a commercial loan. And so most of them require, or want you to fund into an LLC. There are some that will do them in their personal names. It's interesting. They follow more of a conventional loan program, which I'm not really sure I understand, because they issue a closing disclosure and they look at loan estimates, even though it's considered a non loan. So they just handle a little bit differently. Those companies will allow you to do it in your name and some of them are doing a lot of those companies are also doing primary residences under a non QM basis. So bank statement products for somebody who may be self employed also trying to buy a primary residence. That's where I see it more. Most of the the LLC stuff is for investors and those lenders are going to. Really prefer or require it to be in an LLC. [00:22:07] Jason: Got it. Okay, cool. So what should investors know in order to make the decision as to which way they should go? Like, how do you make the deciding factor? Like, what are some of the things that kind of weigh into this?  [00:22:20] Matthew: Yeah, I think really it's a conversation initially of can they qualify for a conventional loan? Do they understand what non QM loans have to offer? A lot of investors aren't familiar with the details of non QM loans, how they work, how they can help them. So it's really an education conversation of, what options we may have available. Right? I would always start with the conventional loans typically and, see if we can qualify. If you can go that route and you're putting 25 percent down you're going to get a little bit better interest rates. And then you don't have some of the other key factors that come with non QM loans. So most non QM loans do have some sort of prepayment penalty because they're selling these to a secondary hedge fund investor that wants a minimum return. So, in most cases, you're going to have a prepayment penalty in a conventional loan. Stay out of point. A QM loan legally cannot have a prepayment penalty. [00:23:14] So there's a big difference there. But as far as qualifying them, it's a really, like I said, an education and a conversation about what their profile looks like. Right? They self employed. Do they own multiple properties? Are they showing losses or profits on those properties? And then, really documenting that, 9 times out of 10, what I'm told on a verbal conversation doesn't match what I get on the documentation that way. [00:23:38] "Oh, my business makes this," but they're talking about gross revenue, not net income. They're talking about gross rent amounts, not the net income they're showing on their tax returns. So it needs to go the next level. But that initial conversation may determine quite quickly that, hey, we need to go non for what reason or, because they want to fund it in an LLC, because the property is really a short term rental, but it doesn't but they don't have any history of short term rental management. [00:24:07] And let's talk just a little bit about, how you look at the short term rental. I know that's what we were talking a little bit about before we talked about your loan, right? So there's 2 ways to look at that short term rental and it's either from well, the rental income short term or long term can either come from an appraiser. [00:24:23] Or from a software program that some lenders are now using. So a lot of lenders will lean on a typical, appraisal to an appraiser to come up with whatever that market rent may be. And like, like, you said, it's difficult to cash flow properties in Austin or in Texas. On long term rents simply because the property taxes have escalated and now with higher interest rates. [00:24:48] So a lot of times, the short term rental is really from a lending perspective an easier way to qualify the property for 1. But we do have the ability to look at it from two different perspectives and this is what we utilized on your loan. So I'll just talk about a little bit. So I have a couple lenders that will look at the short term rental from a software perspective. [00:25:05] Right? So in your case. When we had the discussion, it was really a matter of, yeah, "I really want to put 20 percent down. I don't want to put additional money down. That would be more important to me than a little bit higher interest rate. Right?" And so, when we look at different lenders that may be leaning on an appraisal. [00:25:21] I don't know what that number is for 2 weeks and me personally I feel like appraisers, especially in the short term rental market. Are a little bit lazy and sometimes they just don't have the data. So what happens is I submitted to the lender based on an 80 percent loan to value. And then all of a sudden, my short term rental income comes back low or lower than what we may have expected. [00:25:42] And now that's requiring you to put an additional 5 percent down to meet their guidelines of a debt service coverage ratio less than one or go no ratio, right? We still have an option, but the option is going to require you to put a little bit more money down. And so. Again, we have two ways to look at it either an appraisals given us that number or with some investors. [00:26:00] And this is why I like working with some of those in that case. Like I said, your most important factor is 20 percent down. so I took it to a lender that gave me that short term rental number within 48 hours. They ran it through their system. They gave it to me immediately and said, "this is where we should be." As soon as we submitted the loan to underwriting within 2 days, we had an approval and this was confirmed short term rental amount. We didn't have to wait on the appraiser and it didn't matter what the appraiser's opinion was. They already confirmed what we were going to use, which confirmed that I could get your loan approved with just 20 percent down. So, that's a preferred method in a lot of ways, especially if we're trying to keep that 20 percent down number. [00:26:38] If we have somebody that's putting 25-30 percent down, then it's. A little bit less relevant and we can, decide what option might be best for them at that point.  [00:26:46] Jason: Got it. So why should property managers who are constantly wanting to do more deals, help more investors, why should they have somebody like Matt in their back pocket? [00:26:57] Sarah: Oh, that's such a good question. Well, I want to think of it kind of twofold. One, I feel like if you are a property manager, you should also be an investor in real estate. Real estate agents just by having access to the MLS. No, that's not where all deals come from. I know that, but just by having access to the MLS and the connections that you have as a real estate agent and property manager, there's no chance that you don't come across amazing deals all the time. [00:27:23] There's no chance. So capitalize on that.  [00:27:26] You should also be an investor yourself. It's great to manage properties and let's do that and build wealth ourselves. Yeah. So that's number one. But number two is if you're like, "well, I like, I don't know, I'm unsure, or maybe I have one property or two properties and I don't know if I'm ready to continue to build a portfolio." [00:27:46] Or you're like, "Hey, I have X many properties and I'm happy right here. I don't want any more." I don't know why, but maybe you are. So if that's the case and you have investor clients that very likely would love to get into more deals themselves. And it would be great for you because now if you have an investor and they manage five doors, but that same investor can now manage 10, 20, 38. [00:28:11] That's fantastic because now your business is growing. So if you have a way that you can help your investor clients get what they want, which is more deals, it's a win because yes, the savvy investors, they're always looking for more deals. Jason's hooked now. He said to me, we closed and he was like, "how do we do another one? like, how do we do another one?" He's like, "how fast can we do another one? Like Sarah, is it possible if we do like one property a year," right? And he did. Yeah, he did. There's a lot of investors like that because once you get it. Once you really get to see all of the benefits and just how freaking beautiful it is to be a real estate investor and make money and get all of the tax benefits that you don't get in almost any other sector. [00:28:54] It's amazing. So why would you not want more of that? So if you're a property manager, it would make so much sense for you to just be able to educate your investor clients. "Hey, have you ever thought of picking up more properties?" The answer probably is going to be "yes," especially if you're doing a great job for them as a property manager. [00:29:14] Because that's a tricky part is, "well, I could buy a bunch of properties, but who's going to manage them?" If you have a great manager, it makes sense to get as many properties as you possibly can, knowing that they are in good hands and they are being taken care of because all you're doing is printing money. [00:29:30] So if you want to grow your portfolio by adding additional deals to the clients that you already have. It's like so simple, right? Why would we not do that? So having options. that not everybody knows about. It's fantastic.  [00:29:47] Jason: So in short, this just gives them a lot more options to work with because investors want to invest, and they may think, "Oh, well, I've only got this much down or I can only do a conventional, I can only do it this way. I need to meet certain criteria" or "I've just declared all these losses."  [00:30:04] Sarah: "Like I have too much debt." Maybe their like debt to income is a little maxed out because we're, keeping up with the Joneses. This is so normal, right? So that and Matt's laughing. He sees it all the time. [00:30:15] I bet he's like, "Oh, we went a little too high on that one." [00:30:18] there's good debt and bad debt though as well, right?  [00:30:21] Correct. However, if you own five properties or six properties or seven properties, every additional property that you have that is leveraged, meaning that you have a mortgage on it, that's counting against you and your debt to income ratio. [00:30:35] Jason: Right. So it gets harder and harder using conventional to get into more property.  [00:30:40] Sarah: Unless you're the Fed and you can just print money.  [00:30:42] Jason: Well, I don't know if they're buying  [00:30:44] Matthew: a lot of money.  [00:30:44] But you bring up a good point and just to clarify when we do a debt service coverage ratio program, I'm not looking at any of your debt. [00:30:52] I'm not looking at a debt ratio calculation at all. And if you own multiple properties, I'm not even looking at any of those other properties for any sort of rent, income, verification, mortgage, anything. This one is a business, right? Correct. It's it. Well, it's just debt service coverage on that subject property, right? [00:31:10] Does the rent cover the note? And do we have enough money for down payment and reserves on that property alone? We don't look at reserves for those additional properties like you would a conventional. So you got five properties. I don't care about reserves on those. I'm only looking at the subject property. [00:31:24] So, yes, debt to income is a big factor and I think, if we're talking to property management companies, it's really just an education or a knowledge of what potentially could be out there. Right? Like you said, they have opportunities to buy all the time. I would think that the savvy property manager is going to scoop those up if they can, but are they aware of these programs? [00:31:44] Or do they think that? "Oh, my debt to income is too high or I have losses on my tax returns that I'm going to have trouble qualifying." And then you also have your network of investors that you manage those properties for that potentially are looking for additional doors, but they're not aware of these programs in some cases. [00:32:00] So, yeah, it's just a matter of, I think, education and just getting the information out there. So that some of these people know what options are available.  [00:32:09] Jason: Well, it sounds like it shifts the conversation from, "can we?" Yeah. Maybe it's a no, in their thought, in their mind to "how can we?" Like, there's other creative ways that things could be done instead of saying, "Oh, it's gotta be this one way we've always done it. That's the only way." So, what about for long term rentals? Which like some of the investors listening and a lot of our clients listening may not do a short term.  [00:32:32] Sarah: You can still do a non QM on a long term, especially in Austin. Now, other markets, you might find a cashflow. Like I have a cashflow property in Pennsylvania. [00:32:40] It's a rare gem guys, but in Austin, it's hard to get something to cashflow, especially right now.  [00:32:47] Matthew: Okay, so there's two ways to look at it again. There's, or I guess, multiple ways to look at it. Not just two, but bank statements if I'm looking at it. So, if they're self employed, and they have a business that we can lean on the bank statements, right? [00:32:59] That's my income qualifier and no longer care about that negative potential cash flow on the property in the rent. Right? So that's one way. If I'm doing debt service coverage and I'm looking at long term rental, I have a client that wants to long term rented. They're not going to be comfortable stating short term rental on the application. [00:33:17] They really have no desire to do that. Then I have to look at the short term rent. Now, what that's typically going to end up, at least in Austin, what's typically going to end up happening is that property is going to have a problem cash flowing at 20 percent down or 80 percent equity. Right? So what happens is it now pushes us to. [00:33:34] A bigger down payment, a larger down payment, 25 percent 30%. And then we have the options with those lower loan values to do either no ratio or lower debt coverage ratio loan programs. Right? So. If it falls below 100%, meaning 100 percent rent coverage with PITI coverage which principal interest taxes, insurance and HOA fees all come into that play. But let's just say it's a little bit short. I've got a PITI of 2000 dollars of my rent's 1800. well, the lender is going to do one or two things. Are you going to say, "well, we need more down to get that to 100%." Or "we're going to reclassify it as a higher risk and we'll do, some of them will go down to 75 percent debt coverage, but it's a little bit higher rate." [00:34:18] Or "we have to go to a little bit larger down payment and go no ratio, right?" No ratio means we just eliminate that altogether. And it's typically 30 percent down. So, we have options to look at but it is definitely a little bit harder if we're looking at long term rents simply because it's harder to cash flows at 20%, unless again, unless we have larger down payments or larger equity positions, for refinances to soak. [00:34:42] A lot of these let's talk about that too, you have some of your property management clients that may want to purchase more properties where they could extract equity out of these homes to use to purchase more property. So there's a lot of the refinance going on with those properties to under a non QM basis, because they again, they can't qualify for a full doc for whatever reasons. [00:35:03] Right? But there are options to pull cash out under a non QM basis and utilize those funds to reinvest.  [00:35:09] Jason: Got it. So say they've got five, 10 properties, it's getting really difficult for them to qualify for a QM loan. They could maybe pull some equity out of their existing properties, do like a cash out refi, and then use that money to fund a bigger down payment to do a non QM scenario. [00:35:28] Matthew: Absolutely. Absolutely. The challenge right now in the market with refinances in general is a lot of these people have really good rates on those properties. And so they don't necessarily want to refinance and lose that low rate understandably. Right? So. In other states, you have a the ability to do HELOCs or he loans, which are second liens, Texas, it's a little bit limited. [00:35:47] There's not as many products available, especially on the investment side. There are ways to extract some of that equity and reposition it to be reinvested in other investment opportunities. And I will say that we do have the ability to do the same type of loans on small commercial properties. [00:36:04] Like, up to I've got one lender that kind of specializes in that small commercial that goes up to 24 units. So, between 5 and 24 unit apartment buildings, we're also looking at a non QM type debt service coverage loan, which is what commercial loans look at in general anyway. Commercial loans are based on cash flow, right? [00:36:23] It's all debt service coverage based on that. But in that small apartment complex arena, you've got a lot of these kind of more residential lenders that are focusing and specializing in it. Because it's a piece of the market that's left out, right? Your commercial lenders don't want to touch something that's a few 100, 000 dollars. They have minimums of 5Million dollars, 3Million dollars. And so you have these smaller properties that are great investments in some cases that also have challenges getting loans, not because of the property, but because of the size of the loan.  [00:36:55] Jason: It's just not big enough for him. [00:36:56] So Matt what areas do you cover personally? And then how do people find somebody like you, how did they find somebody like you? Like, this was a challenge we had to ask around what do people look for to find somebody that can help them with some more creative options?  [00:37:11] Matthew: That's a good question. I wish more people would know how to find me. So maybe you can help me with that. But yeah, it's just, it's interesting. There's a lot of loan officers that just don't, I guess maybe they're scared of the non QM space. They don't understand it. They're scared of change, so to speak, and so they just go, "I've never done that. And I don't know anything about it and they don't want to learn about it." it's the fastest growing segment of the market right now. Fannie Mae is pushing a lot of the paper towards non QM from a risk perspective. They want to get away from it. They're making investment rates in terms unattractive, so to speak, so they're offloading it that way. But, I think it's really through the real estate agents is probably the best way to get in touch with somebody like me, if they're familiar with it. But what's interesting is even your agent from McLean that I work a lot with Brett. [00:38:00] He wasn't 100 percent versed in these products either. So. Fortunately, he got me, right?  [00:38:05] Sarah: Yeah. Thank you, Brett.  [00:38:07] Matthew: But, yeah, as far as if you have somebody that's questions, I'm always available to potentially educate people in regards to these programs. As far as where I do business, I'm legally licensed in Texas and Arizona, meaning national mortgage licensing, which is the, the CFPB license. [00:38:22] Now, with non QM loans about 35 states don't require you to have a license within that state. So I can do non QM debt service coverage all these type of loans that we talked about in about 34 different states. Just with my national license and because they consider a business purpose use, it's classified as a commercial loan in those states, and they don't have these overbearing laws like California does or Nevada. So there are some states that it's difficult unless you want to jump through a bunch of hoops to do it. And unless there's enough volume, there hasn't made sense for me to do it. [00:38:55] I just focus on the ones that I can, which is a big piece of the country and we can help folks in those 30 some states, 34 states, whatever it is.  [00:39:03] Jason: So there's maybe 15, 16 states that you can't cover.  [00:39:06] Matthew: It's the New York the Pacific Northwest and California, most of the middle of the country around Texas we can do. [00:39:14] I know you, you referred me to somebody in Utah the other day, they happen to be a state that requires licensing, but their licensing is pretty reasonable. So, if there was an opportunity or a reason, for some volume to come out of there, I could get licensed fairly quickly. [00:39:28] And some of these states, because I already hold a national license within them. I passed the test for that, which means you just have to take the state piece of that exam to then get licensed. Be able to do loans there, which is fairly simple. And as long as you're not in New York or California or somebody that has these crazy laws,  [00:39:44] Sarah: What's to invest there anyway, come on, like squatters and all this, like? [00:39:48] Matthew: I know, right? [00:39:49] I don't know how everybody does loans in New York. I hear it takes 90 days to close a loan.  [00:39:54] Jason: There's plenty of investors in those markets. I'm sure people listening. All right. Cool. Well, Matt, it's been great having you here on the DoorGrow show. Appreciate you being our guest. How can people find you or get in touch with you? [00:40:06] If they're wanting to reach out and find out if they're one of those 34 states.  [00:40:10] Matthew: Well, my number if you want my phone number is 512 415 6142. You can Google Nexa my name. I think if you Google my name and Nexa mortgage that come up quite a bit on the Google nexahomelending.Com is my personal website. [00:40:27] That's probably the two best ways to reach out to me just text or email and I'm more than happy to help you in any way that I can.  [00:40:34] Jason: Perfect. Well, it sounds like this is at least a key or just a tool or an idea that every property manager listening should probably have in their back pocket. [00:40:44] You should have some sort of connection to a more creative lender than you may have currently. And so, connect with Matt or maybe, I don't know, start Googling non QM lenders in your market. I don't know, but find somebody or ask around to some real estate agents, but see if you can get somebody that can help with getting some of these deals because investors, they have money, they have equity and, but they're not doing deals and they want to probably do more deals and they just need somebody creative enough to help them find some solutions or interesting ways to make it happen. [00:41:13] So, all right. Well, again, Matt, thanks for being on the show. Appreciate you.  [00:41:17] Matthew: My pleasure. Thank you very much for having me.  [00:41:19] Jason: All right. Well, everybody, if you are interested in growing your business, your property management business, reach out to us, you can check us out at doorgrow.Com. And until next time, everybody to our mutual growth. Bye everyone.  [00:41:30] Matthew: Great. Thank you. Talk to you guys soon. Bye. [00:41:32] Jason: you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:41:59] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

In this episode of Building Texas Business, we delve into the remarkable journey of Jason Hayes and his family's business, Top Coat Fabrication. Despite the tumultuous nature of the markets, they managed to emerge as an industrial leader, a testament to their resilience and adaptability. He shares Top Coat's blueprint for navigating change while excelling in oil, gas, and petrochemicals. Intentional culture-building through staff gatherings and challenges instilled trust and community, cornerstones of Top Coat's prosperity. In conclusion, his journey to company president wove together personal learning, workplace achievements, nurturing customer bonds, and proactive growth to create the powerhouse that Top Coat is today. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS Jason Hayes discusses the transformation of Top Coat Fabrication from its sandblasting roots to becoming an influential player in the oil, gas, and petrochemical industries. We explore Jason's early involvement with the family business, starting straight out of high school and eventually becoming president, as he emphasizes the value of hands-on experience. Jason shares how Top Coat navigated the challenges of the oil industry's downturns and how strategic diversification into fabrication opened new opportunities in the petrochemical sector. Jason and I delve into the pivotal moment in 2010 when Jason embraced intentional leadership and continuous learning, transforming his personal and professional outlook. Jason highlights the cultural shift within Top Coat, illustrating how he cultivates a positive work environment through team-building exercises and weekly staff meetings. We discuss the significance of building strong customer relationships, with Jason explaining his personal approach to post-project follow-ups and the search for honest feedback. Jason reflects on the importance of networking and trusted advisors, detailing how open communication within the leadership team is essential for resolving conflicts and fostering growth. We delve into Jason's leadership style, his efforts to understand team members' goals, and his commitment to maintaining a balance between work and family life. Jason explains the importance of hiring for culture fit, noting that while skills are necessary, alignment with the company's ethos is crucial for long-term success. Personal anecdotes are shared, including Jason's love for Tex-Mex, his first job experiences, and his aspirations to travel more with his family. LINKSShow Notes Previous Episodes About BoyarMiller About Top Coat Fabrication GUESTS Jason HayesAbout Jason TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Chris: In this episode, you will meet Jason Hayes, president of Top Coat Fabrication. Jason is the second generation of leadership in a family-owned business and tells how he went from hope to learning to be more intentional about growth. Jason I want to welcome you to. Building Texas Business. Thanks for taking time to come on the show. Absolutely Glad to be here. So I think the best place to start is just tell us a little bit about Topcoat. What is the business and what? Jason: does it do? Okay, we're an industrial fabricator, so we fabricate oil and gas and petrochemical equipment, a lot of welding, piping, structural steel, pressure vessels pretty much anything you see when you drive by chemical plants. That's the type of stuff that we fabricate. Chris: Okay, and y'all been in business. Now for what? 40 plus years, 40 plus years. Jason: This is our 44th year. I think it started in 1980. Okay, yes, it started as a sandblasting and painting company, and that's how they got the name Top Coat. Chris: Oh, okay, that makes sense. And so started by your father, I believe. Mom and dad, okay, still 100% owners. Very good, so what was the I guess, the inspiration that had them start Top Coat to begin with? Jason: I think honestly, if I remember the story right, my dad was working for a contractor down in Freeport and I don't remember the whole story but he didn't get treated right so he got let go or whatever happened. So he decided he was going to start his own thing. So he did they and they started this blasting and painting and it just kind of took off. His work ethic combined with everything else and industry in our area, so there was a lot of oil and gas in our area at that time. Mobile had a big shore base down there, so his contacts led to him doing some blasting painting for mobile and then they asked him if he could do some work offshore on their platforms, because they have platforms out there. So that that led to that part of the business and it just kind of started growing a little bit from there so it's interesting. Chris: So many people that I've talked to have you know unique stories, but there's a there, there's some that have a common theme that it's kind of, out of that hardship or disappointment or something, they decide to go on their own and do it their own way. It sounds like that was the case for your dad. Jason: Yeah, absolutely. I don't know exactly what drove it, you know, but yeah, that's what led to it. Chris: Tell us a little bit then you know how did that lead to. You know what the company is today as it relates to you know the focus and the mission and the purpose of the company. How has those early days influenced where you are today, some 44 years later? Jason: Well, let me give you a little bit of history about that. So when he started working offshore for Mobile at some point, he was just doing sandblasting and painting, well, on a project. They had asked him if he had any welders or knew any welders, because they needed some welding done out there. So he said yes, as a matter of fact, I do so. Welders because they needed some welding done out there. So he said, yes, matter of fact, I do so that he started hiring welders and doing construction on the platforms as well. So the offshore oil and gas was our bread and butter for many years, 20 plus years at least. So that even when I came on board in 98, that was our biggest business was oil and gas offshore construction. We'd send crews to the platforms and do maintenance and platform installations, platform removals, kind of everything in between. So that was great. The downside was, you know, when oil and gas is great, it's great, but it's dead, very cyclical too, right Big time. So we had a lot of struggles and I didn't see any other struggles that they saw. My mom and dad went through so many downturns that it was everything they could do to survive, but they did Well. Then, after the BP spill, macondo incident. Then the government really cracked down on offshore industry. So pretty much all the platforms we used to work on started coming out of the water. So all the stuff that we used to do existed no more. So that's when we really had to decide and make a big pivot in the business and say you know what we've been doing? A little bit of fabrication that supports the oil and gas, the offshore let's, let's focus on that. We have the knowledge base, we had some experience in it. Let's let's focus on that. So we literally changed the name to top coat fabrication and we didn't do anything off-site anymore. We focused strictly on fabrication and we would ship our stuff, you know, kind of all over. So it opened another big door to us for the petrochemical industry, because down in our area, you know, we've had Dow Chemical, all these chemical plants right in our back door. But it was almost like we swore we'll never work for the plants, we'll never work in the plants, just because it has that stigma of okay, once you get in, you know your foot in Dow, you know it's, it can be great. But then they people say they own you or you know whatever, and so we never did. Well then now with just the fabrication, that's when we started reaching out to these chemical plants and started really digging in and started doing a lot of work for them. So, and then, another big blessing was not too long after that, we got approached by a big company that had property next to us, had a, a facility, and then they wanted to buy our facility for an expansion. So we were on the water, we were on the intercoastal canal because we had crew boats coming in and out. We did a lot of dock services, so none of that existed anymore. So this was just a huge place that we didn't need, so that we used that to actually buy a piece of property, built a brand new shop where we're at now, a brand new facility. We built it the way we wanted. That was, you know, based on fabrication. So that's where we still are. Chris: Okay, that's great. So you know, I guess, a good lesson in the adage of don't put all your eggs in one basket. Yeah, y'all learned to diversify pretty quickly, right? Yes, yeah, exactly. Jason: So now you know we still do oil and gas work, but it's fabrication. We do a lot of stuff for West Texas oil and gas and we ship our stuff out there. We do a ton for the petrochemical industry right in our back door. We're getting into commercial building fabrication now not the buildings themselves but the structural components that go into them. We're looking into the offshore wind generation, solar, anywhere. We can do our fabrication in different industries for that exact reason to diversify. Chris: It's a good lesson right for people out there that you know. Start a business, maybe with that one big customer, that focus. It can be good when times are good, but you got to think about you know what. If this goes away, what else do we have? That is a compliment to it. It's a big liability yeah, if you don't, yeah, it ain't no different than what you were saying if, if you got too far in with someone like Dow, that'd be no different than you know, kind of that singular focus. So let's talk a little bit. How did you get involved and kind of come up through the business? Because you're now the president, I definitely want to talk a little bit once I hear kind of the back story about at some point there was a transition in leadership, so I definitely want to dive into that. Sure. Jason: So right out of high school I worked for Topcoat for the summer between high school and college and I went off to college that next semester. I went to Texas A&M. I was in mechanical engineering program. I wasn't ready for college, so I was there for two semesters and then they suggested that I leave. So I left. After that I came home and started working in 98 at some point and started at the bottom, started as a helper. The summer before college I was just a weed eater. We had this huge facility on the shore basin. I literally just weeded it all summer pretty much. So then when I came back I was a helper, just doing whatever you know in the shop around the facility. At one point we also made a realization or my dad did, because I had nothing to do with management then, but he made a realization that we needed somebody that would take care of the safety. We always had good safety records and good practices, but we needed somebody that could take charge of the program. Right? So I got volunteered to be the safety man. There you go. So I did that for a few years. They call that voluntold. Chris: Yes. Jason: I was being polite, you're exactly right. So I did that for a couple years and then I don't remember how the transition it was kind of a slow transition into just kind of taking more of the reins of the management. So at some point I can't tell you when, but he named me as the general manager. Okay, so he was the president, I was the general manager and then so I had, you know, a couple of people that kind of reported directly to me and then all the work happened underneath them. So that, and that was the case for a pretty good while. And I mean I'll be brutally honest that I was not into leadership back then. I wanted to be the top dog, right, I wanted to be the guy in charge, but leadership as I understand it now was not in my repertoire. Chris: Yeah, well, I mean, it's easy to want to be the guy, yeah, but there's a lot that goes with it that not everyone understands. Right To do it, the right way To do it right? Yeah, I knew nothing about leading people. Well, what have you done to try to help educate yourself, get some experience to become a better leader? Jason: I think it started with a desire wanting to be better. When you hit that point in 2010, I hit a really low point in my life. That's when I turned my life over to God and became a Christian. It just really changed the way I was thinking. So that kind of led me into leading my family and at some point, you know, I started reading books, I started learning more, listening to podcasts, and that just literally flowed into work. Okay, there's a realization. Okay, now I need to be a better leader at work. And what does that look like? So I started going to conferences, reading books, listening, just consuming as much content as I could, yeah, and then just slowly started putting things into practice at work, which was awkward, you know, at times when you try to bring some new thought processes and stuff to the team where it's never been before. You know, this is the way we've always done it type of mentality, and I was the same way. Chris: So it's a struggle, it's a beautiful story. It's an easy trap to fall into, right For people. Well, we were just doing it this way, because we've always done it that way. That is a eventually that becomes a death sentence for a company because no one will. Eventually that becomes a death sentence for a company because no one will innovate or think differently. And so I definitely applaud you for coming to that point. And you know, and as you know, now it's a, it's an everyday. You know you got to keep learning and keep growing, yeah for sure. So let's go back to the kind of the transition, because at some point you become president I don't know what your dad's title is now, but you kind of take over the reins. Let's talk about how did that decision kind of come about? And then how did y'all manage through the transition where you became kind of the. Jason: It was gradually happening already, so my dad is still the CEO now and he was like saying he was the president back then and it was just I, I probably just. It was a combination of me taking more and taking more initiative and him being able to release more right. So there wasn't anything set like, okay, I'm going to give you more, I need you to take more. Chris: It was just kind of I started pulling and he started giving well the given parts, probably the hardest of those two, oh, I'm sure'm sure, allowing himself to let go and trust. How did y'all manage the communication within the company? Did you just let it happen by kind of osmosis? The actual? Jason: leadership just happened. So I've worked really closely with most of my leadership team for gosh I guess 16 or 17 years now several of them and so it just happened. We started really clicking together, growing. A lot of us have the same kind of mentality we want to get better personally, we want to get better in the business. We're, all you know, looking at the big picture type of thing. But the actual transition from me to GM to president, I didn't even know about it. So we have a staff meeting every Monday with the entire company. We have breakfast and I typically show some type of motivational video, tell the whole staff a few things that might be going on within the business. And in one of those meetings my mom shows up. And my mom, she just doesn't. She's never been involved in the business since I've been there. She's part owner but never been involved in it, and so she's. So you know, I said hi to her before I'm going to the meeting and I didn't think anything about it. Well, during that meeting my dad gets up and says okay, I want to announce that jason is now the president of the business and I'm he. I don't think he said this, but he was stepping up to the ceo. So it was like a we both kind of moved up okay. But he mentioned, you know, that he just that he just wanted to. He knew I was passionate about it, I was passionate about the business, passionate about the people, and he knew I wanted to take it to new places. So he named me president. So nobody knew, not me, not anybody else, it just happened one day oh, we don't. So it was a cool honor and you know it didn't change much. It didn't change much because the structure was already there. Yeah, it was just a matter of a title really then. But I think I started taking it even more serious then. Chris: Makes sense. So I guess we talk about as it exists today. Then you're still working with your dad, but more the responsibility for the day-to-day falls on you, Right? Yes, definitely. Jason: He's there almost every day. I mean he's there every day that he's around. If he's not, you know, gone out of town or something, he's there. He's typically in his shorts and flip flops or you know shorts and shoes and fishing shirt. But he is there, which is great to have him. I'm honored to be able to work with him. He still lets me pretty much do what I want. I mean trusts me. Chris: So one of the things I noticed in getting ready to meet you today was on your website, the company's website. You're very big on your people and your culture, so let's talk a little bit about how you would describe the culture at Top Coat and what are some of the things you think you've done to help kind of build to get to that type of culture. Jason: The culture is amazing at Top Coat and that's my passion. My passion is the culture. That's one of the biggest things I think spend most time thinking about. One of the first things I did was start having a just a like a weekly meeting with my, the leadership team. We started doing that, I would bet, six or eight years ago, Just a weekly meeting. We didn't really have any structure, I just wanted us to meet, put our heads together and talk about things going on. So that was the first thing I started. And then, after that, we started the full staff meetings. After we moved to our new place, we actually had a place we could meet, but we started having our full staff meetings once a week too, and we kind of used that as a transition. I don't remember how it came about, but we started doing a type of physical challenge where every Monday after our staff meeting, we'd have some kind of challenge where it would be, we'd do push-ups, we'd do dead hangs. We've done just about everything you could imagine. Some of them are physical, some of them are not, but we do that and it's we literally make the people pay. If you want to play five bucks, Everybody puts in five bucks and wants to do it. Winner takes all, unless it's a team sport. You know, we've done tug of war, We've done dodgeball tournaments and little things like that. It just creates like maybe 15, 20 minutes of fun and there's trash talking from all the you know, the audience and everything else. But it's that's just a tiny layer that just it just adds a little bit of fun into the workday. It makes it a little more human, right? Yes, and that's one of the biggest things my dad fought me on at the very beginning was doing these. You know his mentality was you know, think about what that's costing the company. You know you have this entire crew shut down for 30 minutes additional. What do you think that's costing us? And I wrapped my head around it and I thought about it and I understood. But at the same time I tried to make him understand. I think it's way more valuable to spend that time and spend that money on this time, because I think overall it's going to be well worth it. Chris: Yeah, kudos to you for that, because it's easy to look at the black and white and ensure there's a cost to that. But I think you're right when you evaluate it holistically. If you're creating engagement and fostering that environment where everyone kind of knows each other better and feels more like a team, I think the returns are exponential. Right, you can't necessarily put dollars on it, but you probably can't look at lack of turnover, maybe better productivity once they're back at work. So I think to your point it was it's a wise investment to making your people yeah, I agree, and I mean to this day. Jason: If you look on our LinkedIn page or Facebook, when I put up videos of the challenge that we do, that's even on LinkedIn. Those are the posts that get so many comments, so many shares. It's people connect with it and so many people say, man, I wish we did that at our place, or I wish my company would do stuff like that. And it's like it's those little things that people I don't know if they don't think about them or they just don't think it's worth it, but for us it's been kind of a game changer. Advert Hello friends, this is Chris Hanslick, your Building Texas business host. Did you know that Boyer Miller, the producer of this podcast, is a business law firm that works with entrepreneurs, corporations and business leaders? Our team of attorneys serve as strategic partners to businesses by providing legal guidance to organizations of all sizes. Get to know the firm at boyermillercom. And thanks for listening to the show. Chris: So one of the things you mentioned kind of as the company's evolved is, you know this diversification into fabrication and doing other lines of business. What are some of the things you do as the president of the company to kind of create those relationships with the new customers, new vendors, and maintain those strong relationships? Jason: We have a sales team that does a lot of the actual interaction. But most of our customers I'll know their name, I'll know their contact information and I'm the one that reaches out to them personally. For if we're going to do it, then let's say we sponsor a lot of golf tournaments, you know skeet shooting teams for fundraisers and that sort of thing, and I'm the one that normally reaches out to the people and ask them if they want to you know, participate with us. We had an industry night a couple of weeks ago and I call all the what the customers that I know and have the contact information. I'm the one that calls them and I also do customer follow-ups. With every project that we do that ships out, I do a customer follow-up call with everyone. I call them personally, just as me, thanking them, number one for their business and then number two just seeing if there's anything we can do to improve that I love. Chris: And I'll tell you we tried here and we're not consistent with it. Love, and I'll tell you we tried here and we were not consistent with it, but that kind of what I would call customer survey, satisfaction survey. So you've got it baked into your routine to do it on every order. Jason: That's amazing, I learned that from Mattress Mac. Okay, we bought some furniture from him and I think twice now, and every time sometime afterwards he calls personally and just thanks us for his business. Oh we darn. Chris: Yeah, Well, I think it's a great lesson for people you know that are listening to this and have their own business. That personal touch and that follow-up can go so far in creating that customer loyalty Right. So that's amazing. I guess you report back to your people on what you learned from that so that's amazing. Jason: I guess you report back to your people what you learned from that. Yeah, so we have a Teams, our Teams folder that we open up every day or every week in our leadership meeting and I keep the spreadsheets in there so we review it every week. Any ones that I call, you know, I'll be honest, I'll let them build up, because our project coordinator sends me. Every time we ship one out, he sends me the contact, you know, until I know what the project was, who the contact name is and so forth. And I will, all honesty, I let them build up because sometimes I'll procrastinate doing it, you know, because I'm like, oh, it's one more thing I gotta do, right, right. But then after I do, let's say, just the day before yesterday I called six, six clients and every time I do it I'm so glad that I did because I feel better, I'm sure you know, I feel better because I let them know, number one I that I them. Number two we're trying to ask them if there's anything that we can do to improve and be better. We want to know and I don't think. I think it's so uncommon that people don't people say they want feedback. But I think they want the five-star rating Right. They don't want the honesty, they just want okay, how many five stars can we get? Chris: Yeah, they want the high google rating, right right which it feels good to get that. Jason: But we're not going to get any better if, especially if there's a client that's not happy about something, some most of them aren't going to come and just out and tell us, hey, so and so went wrong. But if I ask, is there anything we could do to better, that's when they're going to say, as a matter of fact, there is. Yeah, I haven't got that yet, but we will sure you will. I mean, that's the point, that's what I want. Chris: I think that's great. You know, sitting here thinking I need to do more of that. You know that, as I told you before we came on, I learned from all the guests and I've at least learned that from you today. I think that's wise advice. Jason: And it has to come from the top. If my project coordinator is talking to the clients, you know 24 seven7. It's not going to be the same Right. Chris: That's right. So let's talk a little bit. I mean, it's been up and down in the economy the last few years. What have you experienced at Top Coat kind of as it relates to the last four or five years and kind of the you know turbulent environment, and what are some of the things you've done to kind of manage through? Jason: that We've stayed pretty steady the last several years. Now. Last year ended up being our best year in history revenue-wise. Revenue and profit-wise. Several stars aligned for that, some great projects from some longtime customers. But the few years before that we were okay, we were steady, right, and that's. I think that's one thing that Vistage taught me is to be proactive. I'd sit back for years and say, man, I hope this company grows, I hope this company grows. And then, with you know, the Vistage group and just everything that I've been involved in so far with that has just really taught me that you have to be intentional, you have to, we have to make it happen. So we going to grow, how are we going to make this happen? So that's where the big focus is now. I mean we since I've been there, you know, 26 years we've had some horrible years. I mean when we first take great story, when we first built our new facility beautiful shop, beautiful, everything we had no work, zero. We got down, I believe seven people in the company completely, and I remember just like it was. Yesterday we're having my staff meeting, so it's a small group, but I'm kind of telling them look, we literally had 75 grand in the bank and we said this is all the money we had left. We had all this money from selling our property, but we'd spent on this new facility and we had some money, but it had just dwindled down to nothing because the work had died, and so that was in 16, I think 2016, 2017. Okay, so I'm telling the whole team look, guys, I don't know what we're going to do. We're going to figure this out, but I really don't know what I do, what we're going to do. And then, literally during that meeting, our phone, our office phone, rang. There was nobody in the office, so I turned around and I answered the phone. Quick, five-minute conversation. It was a guy driving by our facility. He was an inspector for Chevron, phillips and Sweeney and he said I'm leaving the shop and I'm the inspector and I can't stand Something along the lines of I can't stand working with these guys. They keep lying to me, I need to find another shop and I've just been driving by your place. I want to see if I can come talk to you about doing some fabrication work for us. That led to us doing $2 million to $3 million a year for them almost every year since. Oh, wow, and so that was. It was like that was. Since I've been in the business, that was the lowest point that I felt, because I was really feeling that pressure of what am I going to do? What am I going to do? And there was no strategy to this. It was like it was a God moment of having him drive by all this stuff at the same time by having a new facility help? yes, absolutely if we had not been there, he never would have driven by our place, because where we were before nobody drove by right, so nobody knew so so that's it. Chris: I mean well, that's an incredible deal. So 2016 is seven employees, $75,000 in the bank. How did you end 2023? How many employees and what was your revenue? Jason: 2023,. We had $22 million in revenue and for most of the year we were probably around close to 100 employees. Wow. Chris: That's an amazing turnaround, congratulations. Appreciate it yeah, congratulations, appreciate it. So, yeah, I like what you said earlier, when it was you were hoping to grow and you've learned to go think about how to grow and be intentional, because that otherwise you hear there's another cliche hope's not a strategy, right? So sounds like you mentioned vistage, so you're a vistage member, that sounds like, and other vistage members, including myself. I know how valuable it can be to grow as a leader, but then how you think about your business. Jason: Sure, absolutely yeah. And, like I was telling you earlier, the network that you meet the people, the different people in every area of business yourself for legal, whether it's taxes, insurance, whatever has to do with business. There's people that I'm connected with, literally one-on-one, that I can call, I can sit down with. Most of them will just meet me for lunch. If I need to bounce an idea off of them. That's the biggest thing. Chris: Something I tell people that have businesses all the time is you've got to build a solid network of trusted advisors that you can reach out to, whether it's a banker, insurance person, accountant, lawyer, another entrepreneur or business owner right, that you can just reach out to, because even when you're having a bad day and maybe they can you know, hey, I've been there before, so you'll feel, because a lot of times you feel alone. What are some of the things I guess, as you've evolved as a leader that you've found to kind of whether it's a particular book or conference you go to that have really been valuable to you to kind of grow as a leader? Jason: I can't think of a specific book, but I think, the mentality of giving your people the tools that they need to do what they have inside their head. You know, I think so many times I've learned that even our leadership team at work they have so many ideas and great ways to do different things, but they don't always let them out. So I think creating number one, creating a safe place, like our leadership meetings that we have every Wednesday morning, that's a safe place. Whether it's a conflict that we have, whether it's an issue that they've been holding in, whatever it may be, that is the place where we draw those things out and we squash them or whatever we need to do. To me, that's probably been the biggest thing. Chris: It's a hard thing to do, but you're so right that safe place where people feel like they can share without being judged or criticized is unique, I think, but so important. Jason: And it's so simple, but we're all humans, especially at work. Yeah, and it's so simple, but we're all humans, especially at work. I'm sure we all swallow a whole lot more at work than we do anywhere else, because maybe we're afraid of our job, we're afraid of whatever. But I think it's been really good for us. We've solved so many issues just because we've created the structure for it. Chris: So one of the things I like to ask folks that come on is can you tell us a setback you've encountered in your professional life? Maybe it's your personal life, but something that sets you back. But you learned so much and you grew from it that you're better off because of it today. Man. Jason: I know there's plenty of them. Chris: That's what most people say. Jason: Yeah, there's plenty of them. Chris: I'm just trying to think what would come to mind, maybe something right after you kind of took over being either general manager or president at Topco, maybe something in those early days. Jason: I think one of the real struggles is it's not a moment but learning the business finances. You know I struggle a lot with okay, we need this piece of equipment to get better, we should just go buy it. Well, my dad has the finances and the history of the accounting behind it and I've struggled because he and I butted heads quite a bit on things I think would be a good investment and things he thinks wouldn't be a good investment. So that's become something we both had to work on. Really, I mean, I lean on him a lot for his knowledge and different things when we're purchasing, making big purchases or expanding our facility, whatever we're doing. But I think having those conversations was probably some of the toughest things we've had to do. Gotcha, and it's just like anything else, it's just like with the leadership team. It's creating a space that we can have those. I mean, he and I have worked together for literally 26 years, so we work well together and we communicate fine together. But it's me getting up the courage to ask those questions too. That's been a struggle. Chris: So what I hear you saying in that and I think it's a natural struggle for people in leadership because, like you said, from day one, you wanted to be the top dog. Sure, it's having the humility to ask your father or mentor someone that you don't know or don't know enough, right. Sure, so that takes a lot of humility, yeah, for you, and I think it's also a blessing that you have the courage to use it. Jason: Is you have a built-in, you know, advisor, mentor, right there, you know, letting you grow and being there to kind of guide you along the way yeah, and I don't utilize them as much as I should, but every time we have a conversation like this, it reminds me how much I should I, how much I do and should you know, put more value in that another thing that you mentioned was mentioned was y'all can butt heads. Chris: So what have y'all done? Because I guarantee I've had other people that have done what you've done on the show, that have taken over a family business. I guarantee there's people who are going to listen to this, that are doing that or see that in their future when you get to that place of how will you and your dad communicate on big issues. If you all kind of got it agreed upon, let's do this in private and really hash it out and not let other people see what's going on. I mean, is that something that's one that you all kind of have a practice of doing? If so, how does that work? Jason: Yeah, definitely. I mean, he's in our leadership meeting. He sits in our leadership meetings pretty much every week. He's pretty quiet, you know, off to the side, he's just mainly listening, but there's plenty of times where I'll you know if I have an issue with something he said, or vice versa. He'll either come to my office and shut the. I always, I constantly, have to remind myself that this is his baby. This whole company is. I've had a lot to do with the growth and where we're at in you know the current state, but at the end of the day, this is his and he. He created it and I'm just a part of it. Yeah, so I have to constantly remind myself of that. And then he I mean, he tells me multiple times that you know I'm doing a good job of running it. So he's constantly having to remind himself that he gave me the authority and the power to run it. But it's definitely a team effort. Chris: I think it would have to be. The other thing that comes to mind again, kind of unique to family-owned business and second generation of leadership of that family-owned business is how well do you and your dad do at leaving the issues at the office versus trickling over to the Thanksgiving table or anything like that? Jason: Yeah, he's probably better at that than I am, but even I don't know. From the time I was born, he and I have had an absolutely solid relationship always. He was gone a lot when I was growing up for many years because he was doing a lot of offshore work. So he was gone a lot when I was growing up for many years because he was doing a lot of offshore work. So he was gone a lot, but we always had just a top-notch relationship. Yeah, so I think without that it would have been a hundred times worse. Yeah, but I don't think I can't remember a single time where any tension between me and him ever stayed very long period, but certainly much less made it out the door. Yeah, yeah, we could have this tough discussion and then say, all right, let's go get some lunch yeah, you know that's good here and you know. Chris: The other thing is, I think when you're an entrepreneur and you own this business, you live and breathe it, so you you're going to be thinking about it when you're at home and those conversations could come up versus, just as natural, when they happen at the office right it. Jason: It always has. Yeah, I mean, whether we're at my house, his house, it's typically something with work is going to come up and we're going to talk about it. Chris: It just happens. So let me ask you this just about your own personal leadership style. How would you describe your leadership style today? How do you think it's evolved or developed over the last several years? Jason: I would say my style is to. This is just off the cuff, but I would say my style is to help anybody that I'm leading, make sure they have the tools to do what they need to do. You know I'm really passionate about I haven't been extremely proactive about mentoring all of my leadership team, but I want to know their goals, not just professionally but personally too, and I think a lot about like, what can I do to help them succeed? If the person is going after what they were put on this earth to do and I can be a part of that and help guide them to that, I think that is the ultimate definition of success when it comes to leadership. Yeah, so that's kind of my passion. I haven't been as good at the mentoring side and maybe the personal side. We talk about business roles and stuff quite a bit but I really want to be more involved with their goals in life overall. Sure, Not involved in them, but what can I do to help? How can I help? Chris: Well, at least understand them, so you know how you can be a resource. Jason: Yeah, and again, I want all my resources to be their resources too. Chris: So that brings up kind of a good subject. When you think about that, and maybe I'm going to ask you about yourself, what do you do to try to maintain some type of balance in your life right between work and family, knowing that you're always thinking about the business, right? Jason: I've done pretty good with that for the most part. I've never been a workaholic, just not me. I've been a huge family guy always. I have four kids, ages 15 down to 7, so we stay busy, sounds like it, but that's another. Passion of mine, too is just the kids and the family. I've never had a struggle with staying at work when I should be at home. Chris: Now having the leadership team that I have is what makes that possible. I was going to say you got to have some tools in place to help facilitate that. So hiring good leaders to work with you, Anything that you look for, or when you do interview or interview someone for a leadership position and or think about promoting them to one. Jason: Culture is the number one thing. That's what I always start with. Will this person be a fit for our culture? And that's typically if we're going to hire not just leadership team, but maybe even the level right. You know, underneath that, most of the time I'll. I want to know the person. I want to have a one-on-meeting. You know, I've met several people for coffee that we were interviewing for a project manager position, just because I want to just get to know the person. The resume says what they've done. The resume says everything that they've accomplished. But I want to know are they going to fit with us? And if they don't, then that's an immediate no. So I think that hiring for the culture is the number one thing. Chris: So many people, including myself, believe that right. Lots of people have skills that could fit with what you do, but are they a type of person that fits with who you are and who you want your people to be? Right, and I believe the people that are culture fit. Jason: You never know where they might end up, even with the company. We've hired a couple of people that were a great fit for us and they were doing one thing. Well then, as soon as we get, they get in and they're a great fit, and then we start seeing all the stuff that they're capable of. Then they start getting snagged by this person and next thing you know they're just keep moving up because everybody's starting to see. Chris: You know they're capable of yeah, but it started with the fit right. That's great. Well, jason, I love the story and the family transition. I think it's a beautiful story when they're done right. They're not always are. I want to always wrap up on a few off-topic personal things. Okay, what was your first job? Was it something at Top Coat or something other than that? Jason: Yeah, it was Top Coat, the one right after high school, so weed eating, yeah, it was great. Chris: So great. All right, what's your preference? Tex-mex or barbecue Tex-Mex? I could eat it every day. I mean, I didn't even finish the sentence. Jason: I know you jumped on that one, I know. Chris: No question. Jason: So I always ask people if you could take a sabbat Ooh 30 days, oh man, for at least a week I'd take my wife and we'd just sit on a beach somewhere. Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah, and then I would just do some traveling, a lot of traveling. I want to do a lot more traveling. The only place out of the states I've been is to Mexico, for me and my wife on our honeymoon. Okay, so I've got so many places I want to see, but I just don't make the time or make the plans to do it. Chris: Well with the four kids as you described, you got your hands full right. Yeah, well again. Jason, thanks for taking the time to come on the show. Really enjoyed getting to get to know you better and meet you. Jason: I appreciate the opportunity man. Special Guest: Jason Hayes.

As a property management entrepreneur, you know how stressful day-to-day work and life can get. Over the years, we've noticed that property managers often neglect their own health until they burn out… In today's episode, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull chat about the importance of taking breaks and relaxing periodically as a property management business owner. You'll Learn [01:36] You're stressed out! Now what? [07:44] If you're burnt out, you aren't effective [15:32] Why you need to take a vacation ASAP [17:37] Take a break… or else Tweetables “Just because you're working more or working harder does not mean you're productive or you're effective.” “The thing that will give you more productivity is to stop and take a break.” “Cars have both the gas and the brake. You need to realize that in your business, there's a time for gas and there's a time for the brake.” “If a vacation seems crazy to you, schedule one.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Sarah: If a vacation seems crazy to you, schedule one. That's exactly when you need one. When you go, "I just don't think there's any chance that I could be taken away from the business. Like everything is on me and there's no possible way that I can do it." [00:00:15] That is exactly when you need to do it. [00:00:18] Do it. Book it. You have to. Otherwise this is your life forever.  [00:00:23] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:01:04] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, and expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management growth experts, Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow. [00:01:25] And now let's get into the show. All right. So today's topic Is what?  [00:01:30] Sarah: Relaxation.  [00:01:31] Jason: Relaxation. [00:01:33] Sarah: Yay. You know that thing that you guys never do?  [00:01:36] Jason: So, property management can be a little bit stressful. I've talked to thousands of property managers and this is a common theme. It can be a bit stressful. [00:01:44] And I can't tell you how many I've talked to that said they haven't taken a vacation in like years. They're not taking breaks. They're not taking time for themselves, like things like this. And so I think it's important to recognize that just because you're working more or working harder does not mean you're productive or you're effective. [00:02:05] And so it's important to make sure that you are taking breaks. So I think I shared on an episode recently at a client that I was coaching. And we had him do a time study, which is one of our tools we use to help clients figure out stuff. And he realized it was taking him like an hour to do things after three o'clock that took him 10 minutes to do in the morning. [00:02:26] And so that's a clue to take. a break that we need to take breaks. Yesterday I was working on some tasks and I was getting a lot of stuff done, but then I eventually hit a wall where I was trying to work on something and it just like, was really hard. Like it was just felt really difficult for my brain to work on it at that moment. [00:02:43] And I realized, "Oh, it's like in the afternoon I haven't eaten lunch yet and I probably should take a break." And so rather than forcing it and pushing forward, which I used to do in the past and do less productive work. I went and took a break. So, all right, what else should we say about taking breaks?  [00:03:01] Sarah: All right. So I know that it seems like the opposite thing that you should do when you're very busy And you've got a lot on your plate and you've got 10, 000 tasks to handle and you just have to push through and keep going and get it all done. And that if you stop, it will get harder because then you'll fall behind and then you'll have more to do and then it'll take longer and then you'll be going until midnight or later. [00:03:26] And. It's really crazy, but it is backwards because if you are just pushing through and you're trying to just get it done and dig your heels in and keep going, even when you're tired, even when your body is telling you like, "Hey, I'm tired and I need a break." Then you're still able to keep going, but you're just not efficient and you're being less productive. [00:03:50] So the thing that would give you more productivity is not to just push through and say, "I'm just going to keep going until I get it all done." The thing that will give you more productivity is to stop and take a break. I know it sounds wild, but it's true. So you need to figure out what can you do in that moment to then get some space, remove yourself from the situation and actually get into a state where your brain and your body can start to relax. [00:04:19] Jason: Sometimes breaks are not enough. A quick break's just not enough. You're right. So especially if you've been in burnout for a while.  [00:04:25] Yeah.  [00:04:26] Sarah: We've been working really hard. I talked about this on the scale call last week. There are seasons in your business where you will be because maybe you are bringing on a whole bunch of new units. Maybe you're hiring a new person. Maybe you're implementing a new system or changing softwares or working with a new coach. And there are definitely times for that. But you also have to realize that there are times for breaks and rest and relaxation. [00:04:52] Cars have both the gas and the brake. You need to realize that in your business, there's a time for gas and there's a time for the brake. So you must have both.  [00:05:04] Jason: Yeah. So we've been working really hard lately and I think we're both getting to a place of burnout. We were outfitting an an Airbnb that we're going to use for some client events and stuff as well. [00:05:14] And we've just been working on the business. We're onboarding new sales people in the company too. And it's just, it's a lot, right. And so we just a week's vacation basically. We did a cool training. If you missed it last week, it was really cool. So we did do some work but we took a break and I think it was well needed, especially after that marathon move that we did moving all that furniture into that rental. [00:05:38] Sarah: So I was pretty burned out physically, and I was nearing burnout. I was just, my stress level was through the roof. I was telling Jason, "I am on the verge of a breakdown, could happen like any little thing" and little things, little stupid things that I would normally not care about as much were setting me off like big explosions over a little stupid things. [00:06:03] Jason: Every married guy can resonate. We know when you women get like that.  [00:06:07] Sarah: Well men get like that too, though, in a different way, I think sometimes when the little things that they're an annoyance, they're a slight frustration, but it's not the end of the world. But when your body reacts to that little stupid frustration as if it is the end of the world, that's a really good cue like you need a break. So we took one. And we pushed ourselves probably to the limit and just about every capacity as business owners often do, we're like "go, hurry up, get it all done, make it happen. So we set up we set up an Airbnb in 26 hours. Everything. We cleaned it and we had no furniture. [00:06:48] We moved everything in, we assembled it, we decorated it. We got decor, silverware, dishes. There's five beds in there.  [00:06:55] Jason: Five beds.  [00:06:56] Sarah: And everything. And not just like beds...  [00:06:58] Jason: purple mattresses and stuff ready.  [00:07:00] Sarah: Yeah. It's ready to be rented out right now. And we did all of that.  [00:07:04] Jason: And it's two story.  [00:07:05] Sarah: In 26 hours. [00:07:06] Jason: All the rooms, all the bedrooms are upstairs except one. It was a good time. Hudson, my son, and I were the heavy lifters.  [00:07:12] Sarah: Yes. I wasn't going to break a nail. These are like, it's 75 to get a new set! I'm not... you do that. So we did all of this. And then we actually had this trip booked for a while. [00:07:24] It was booked last year. But the timing just worked out really well. Yeah. So we got done Sunday evening. late Sunday evening. And then Monday morning we flew out to a property, very rural in Arkansas, in Bentonville, Arkansas. It's actually Decatur, but there's like three properties in the city of Decatur, I think. [00:07:44] And then that week, it wasn't that we didn't work at all because we did, but I only worked for maybe a few hours a day and it was selective work and it was focused work. So instead of doing everything that I would normally have done, I had to then prioritize. And say, okay, "if I have two hours to do everything because I'm only going to work for two hours today or three hours today, then what are the things that I must get done today in that time?" [00:08:15] And those were the things that I focused on and anything that wasn't that I either didn't do it or I delegated it to the team. Because the thing that we also don't realize is sometimes things can wait and that's okay. We're in this era now of everything is instant. It's, "I want it right now. I want this now. I want an answer now. I want to talk to somebody now. I want Amazon right now. Like, I want everything instantly." And that has trained us to instantly respond to everything and then to be in this mindset where, "Oh, somebody needs me and then I must drop everything. I must handle it right now." It is okay to wait. [00:08:55] Jason: It's okay to say no. It's okay to say, "Hey, no, I'm not doing that today, or that's going to be done next week." Depending on the situation, you don't always have to be reactive. you should be in control in your business, right? Where you're not reacting to everything. So.  [00:09:10] Sarah: So I'll share what I shared on that Scale call is I challenged everybody to give themselves Megan Cuthin talks about this. [00:09:18] And so if Megan ever sees this. Megan, we love you. So Megan is our friend. She's out in Nashville, Tennessee. She's great. And she coaches on operations. And one of the things that she had talked about is she was noticing that every so often she would just get exhausted and then she was no longer effective. [00:09:35] And she was just like, she had no more gusto to her. She didn't want to do things. And that's because she was hitting a burnout cycle. So she was realizing her burnout cycle was happening pretty often, like every other week. And then what she needed to do when she was like that is just take a break. [00:09:53] So what she started doing is just building these little like mini breaks in. So what she does is she just chooses a day. And she blocks that day out so that she doesn't do anything that day. She has no calls. She has no appointments. She doesn't wake up at a certain time. She just treats it like a vacation day when she's at home. So she'll wake up whenever her body feels like waking up. If she wants to just read a book or watch TV or go take a nap or meditate or take a walk or go bowling or do whatever that day she does that. And then when she feels pretty well rested. relaxed and pretty well rested. [00:10:35] Usually what happens then when we start to feel that way is then our brain starts going "Oh, I should take care of that. And Oh, what if I did that? And Oh..." and we start to get pulled back in to the idea of work and then work seems now exciting again versus, "Oh, I have to do that, but I really just don't want to do it." [00:10:55] There's a big difference between going, "Oh, you know what? I could probably just do that. Oh, you know what? I had this great idea. We should do that." Then you feel excited and energized about it. That's your cue now to go back to work. And it might happen. It might take a day. It might take a few days if you're, especially if you haven't done this in a while, it might take a few days. [00:11:12] It only might take a few hours. So you might be on like this burnout day for like three hours and that's it. So that's it. My challenge to everybody on the scale call last week was to schedule yourself a day like this, where you don't do all of the things that you would normally do and allow yourself that time to relax. [00:11:31] And then my other challenge was to do this regularly. Also, don't just do it once and be like, "Oh, I'm good now." You're not, you have to continuously do this thing. And we had a client actually Josh, he closes his office every single week now on Friday early. And he's His whole team goes home early. [00:11:48] Can you imagine that? So they have about like a four and a half day work week now instead of a five day. And the whole team gets everything done. They appreciate having that extra time in that extra afternoon. And instead of going "Oh, well I like, I can't not work on Friday afternoon because then all of this stuff won't get done." [00:12:08] They get it done. So they're getting the same amount of work done, but in a shorter amount of time because they're properly motivated and they get extra time now to relax. So essentially they're getting a longer weekend. So I would challenge you to do the same thing, pick a day. And if you're like, "there is no chance I could do that right now!" That's fine. [00:12:27] Do three weeks from now. Pick a day and close your office early. The nice thing is you don't actually have to do it. You just have to tell your brain that you're going to do it. So say, "I'm going to close at one o'clock today." And then what you'll subconsciously do is start filtering all of the work and all of the things that must get done. [00:12:43] In that time frame, because you're going to close at 1 o'clock, and you'll get them done, and then, even if you don't close at 1 o'clock, you don't have to, but you just tell yourself that you will, if you then don't close at 1 o'clock, and you say, well, now I have an extra 4 hours in my day, what can you do with those extra 4 hours that your brain wasn't actually planning on having? [00:13:03] Jason: Yeah.  [00:13:03] Sarah: So you can trick your brain, but you really, you have to do a little bit extra to like trick your brain. Because if you go, "Oh yeah, but I'm not actually closing at one o'clock. I'm going to be here until five anyway." Then your brain will give you until five o'clock to get all of your crap done. [00:13:16] But if you're like, "I am closing at one o'clock, I am stopping at one o'clock and that's it." No exceptions. Then all of a sudden you work in the capacity that you have, you get all of your stuff done, and now you have some extra time in your day. And you might then decide to reinvest that time back into the business and go, "Oh, you know what? I think I'll go take a quick lunch. Maybe I'll go take a quick break. Maybe I'll take an hour break. Maybe I'll take a two hour lunch." I don't know. And then if you want to come back, you can always come back. It's your business. You can do whatever you want, but you have to actually trick your brain into, hey, "I need to get everything done by one o'clock or 12 o'clock or two o'clock or whatever time, pick a time, close early and get everything done by then." [00:13:55] And then all of a sudden, you will be a lot more efficient that way. And you'll prioritize the things that need to be done because a lot of the things that you're doing, They don't actually need to be done.  [00:14:06] Jason: So this concept is Parkinson's law, right? Is the idea that the more time you get for something, the more time it's going to take. [00:14:14] And so things will just always fill up whatever container you make available. Related to that, because work expands to fill the time that's available for its completion, things become harder. The more time you allow. And so sometimes by collapsing the amount of time available and having deadlines or having requirements. [00:14:36] And this is one of, I think the brilliant pieces of our planning system, DoorGrow OS, by collapsing the time allotted in order to achieve something, people actually like work more efficiently and it's less hard to accomplish and they get more innovative And they start like looking for all these other alternatives and options and whatever and they do what's most effective. [00:14:58] And so we've seen this with team members like they might spend way too much time on something if we just say this is when we need it's like we need this by next week and They we could give them a month And they would take an entire month and spend a ton of time and more time doing it. And that doesn't mean it's more effective or that we're getting a better result necessarily. [00:15:17] So, same thing for you. Like set a cutoff. I'm done with work at this time. I'm going to take a break at this time. I'm going to take a vacation at this time. And then you will find that things become more and more effective. So Parkinson's law. Cool.  [00:15:32] Sarah: If a vacation seems crazy to you, schedule one. [00:15:36] Yeah. That's exactly when you need one. When you go, "I just don't think there's any chance that I could be taken away from the business. Like I can't take away from my team or I am the team. I don't even have a team yet. Like everything is on me and there's no possible way that I can do it." [00:15:52] That is exactly when you need to do it. So just do it.  [00:15:55] Jason: Yeah.  [00:15:56] Sarah: Do it. Book it. You have to. Otherwise this is your life forever. This is what you want. Do you want to be stuck? Doing all of this stuff every day, all day, burned out, exhausted, tired, miserable? No, so you have to get out of that. And sometimes to get out of that, we have to physically remove ourself from the situation because I know you guys out there, you'll go, "Oh yeah, I'll take a break." [00:16:20] And then you'll bring your cell phone with you and you'll be doing stuff anyway. Actually take a break and remove yourself.  [00:16:28] Jason: So at one of our DoorGrow Live events, we have brought in an expert trainer that trains pro athletes for the San Antonio Spurs and some other pro teams that are around Texas. [00:16:41] And she talked about how is part of their training mechanism and what she coaches on and supports them in recovery is a big part of that piece. It's a big piece of all of that. And if you don't have recovery, then you're going to have more injury. You're not going to perform as well. And so she talked about how the recovery piece is usually this most neglected piece because they're super driven. [00:17:05] And a lot of entrepreneurs, you're high D in a DISC assessment. Like you're very driven. You want to like get things done. You're motivated, but you may not be giving yourself the recovery you need to be effective. [00:17:16] During the recovery stage, it's built during those early morning hours where you're sleeping. That's where muscle's built. You do the work and break the muscle and tear the muscle and whatever doing the workouts, but it's built during recovery. And so if you're not giving yourself what you need and setting aside the recovery time, you will inevitably burn out. [00:17:35] So you have to find that balance. So.  [00:17:36] Sarah: And You need to take a break before your body does it for you.  [00:17:40] Jason: Right.  [00:17:41] Sarah: Because that's the other thing, if you've ever noticed that when you're just tired and you're exhausted and you're stressed and you're like, that's usually when all of a sudden you straighten your back or you twist your ankle or you get this weird cold or bronchitis or whatever. [00:17:57] It's because you're not listening to your body. Your body is giving you clues and telling you what it needs. "Hey, I need to eat Hey, I need to sleep. Hey, like I'm not relaxed. There's way too much cortisol in here. What are we doing?" And if we just keep pushing through it will break down And something will happen either a sickness or an illness or an injury And then you have to take a break because it will force you to take a break. [00:18:24] But then the problem with that guys is then we're not taking a break that's fun. We're taking a break because we're sick and injured.  [00:18:31] Jason: Yeah. So we don't get to really enjoy it. Yeah.  [00:18:34] Sarah: So you're not enjoying it now. You're going, "Oh, I feel like crap." Of course you do. So you should choose to take a break before your body chooses it for you.  [00:18:43] Jason: So I think, one of the things I'm noticing is it's really important for entrepreneurs to become attuned to their nervous system. They need to be familiar with how they're feeling and just check in with themselves. And for entrepreneurs, we usually operate at a high stress level and not all stress is bad necessarily, right? [00:18:59] The stress of working out actually gives you more runway and gives you more time, productive time. But we need to make sure that we're paying attention to our nervous system because we'll get preloaded and then we'll get like really like heightened and really anxious. And then to the point where we're exploding at that team members and like freaking out and like we're really heightened and we might then some entrepreneurs will get to the point where they're having panic attacks and they're not sleeping at night and they're having. [00:19:25] Heart palpitations, right? And so we need to make sure we are honoring the body and our body will give us clues, nervous system. So go take a walk, take a breather, take a vacation, take a break, but start listening to your nervous system. What's it telling you right now that you need right now? Maybe you need to take care of your body. [00:19:41] So, all right. Anything else?  [00:19:43] Sarah: I think if you need to take a break, then take a break and you can take a mini break. You can do that. So just get up and walk around the office. Even if you pace around the office. We have a couple of clients who do that. Like Yair every, I think it's four o'clock every day, he plays the Rocky theme in his office. And then he does like pushups and like burpees and like jumping jacks and lunges and stuff. Now you don't necessarily have to do all of that, but Schedule it throughout the day, put it right on your calendar, and then every so often get up and go walk around, even if it's just walking around your office. [00:20:23] Rest your eyes, close your eyes for a few minutes, look away from your screen. Don't take a break from your screen by looking at your cell phone. That's another screen. That's not a break. Then your eyes are strained all day long. So actually look at something that's not a screen, rest your eyes or close your eyes or do some eye squeezes. [00:20:40] You can meditate, you can listen to some music, you can start to read a book. And even if it's only for a few minutes throughout the day, that few minutes is going to help rejuvenate your body. So then you're not just feeling like you're constantly drained. And when you need a longer break, take a longer break, even though it might seem impossible. [00:21:02] That's exactly when you need to do it.  [00:21:04] Jason: Okay, cool. So there's a cool app that I used for a while called Rise Sleep and it shows your circadian rhythm and there's usually a big spike in the morning where you ramp up and then it dips down in the afternoon and then you get a littler spike in the in the evening and where you get a another boost. [00:21:24] But that lull in the afternoon, that dip can be pretty severe if we're not taking care of our health. And you can be really fatigued. And so that's a great time to maybe go for a walk or take a break or do something to wake yourself up or go do a workout or something like that. So, all right, well, hopefully this was a helpful and effective for you to honor your nervous system. [00:21:44] Get some breaks in. towards burnout. We know that if you're not burning yourself out, you're going to be a lot more productive, a lot more effective, and we can help you grow your business a lot faster. And if you'd like to learn how to get your business growing faster, how to lower your stress levels and make the business a calm workplace, and get more effective and efficient team members, get better systems in place, this is what we do at DoorGrow. We're able to help grow companies dramatically, and we would love to help and support you. So reach out to us and talk to our team and let's get you going. So until next time to our mutual growth, bye everyone. [00:22:17] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:22:44] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Through his company, HospiVation, Jason coaches restaurant executives how to make their goals real in the restaurant and teaches restaurant managers how to transform their patterns of management to improve their hospitality leadership.HospiVation helps restaurants through coaching, speeches, workshops and books. They try to meet managers where they are and dive deep in the restaurant's team to help them build better teams. Jason has wanted to work in the restaurant industry since a very young age and got his first job as a restaurant dishwasher at the age of 15. He's worked for 20 different restaurant brands during his career. One of the biggest mistakes restaurant managers make when it comes to leadership is trying to do everything by themselves and not learning to delegate. It's important for managers to understand a restaurant's KPIs, but it's also important for EVERY member of the team to understand the KPIs and how success is measured.In an effective meeting, the meeting organizer and leader should talk 20 percent of the time and the rest of the attendees should talk 80 percent of the time. QUOTES “I came in through the side door. I started out washing dishes at a very young age. My mother didn't even know I got a job.” (Jason) “I've worked for 20 different restaurant brands and six of the top 100 brands in the U.S. This has given me the ability to see the Mona Lisa painted 20 different ways. All of those learnings helped to shape my company, HospiVation.” (Jason)  “Ask any social media manager. It's very hard to get people to follow you and it's even hard to keep them.” (Jason) “It's not just managing, leading and coaching – it's knowing the difference between the three. We use managing more than anything else in our day as a hospitality leader. Leadership is different. Leadership is understanding the overarching items about the industry and where to move the brand next.” (Jason) “Coaching is the mastery of small groups and one-on-ones. Coaching is you creating a space of 30 minutes to listen to your team.” (Jason) “When it comes to mastering your meetings, you have to understand that if you aren't sitting down to make a decision, you probably shouldn't be there.” (Jason) “You should never stop training, even when someone puts in a notice (and are departing soon).” (Jason) TRANSCRIPT 00:00.00vigorbrandingHello everybody today’s guest is Jason Brooks he’s a motivational speaker an expert in restaurant management and the author of the book every leader needs followers 10 keys to transform restaurant managers into hospitality leaders Jason. Thanks so much for being here. Um, I’d love to start off with just you talking a little bit about your past like some of the places you’ve been and some of the things you’ve done. 00:26.34Jason BrooksThank you Michael ah, it’s a pleasure being on forktails in amazing podcast. Your listeners are full First they know their business. They know what they’re talking about so I am honored. Um, you know my past is like many. Pasts of coaches of speakers meaning that I came in through the side door and and I started out washing dishes very young age 15 first job. My my mother didn’t even know that I got a job. Ah, she just came home one day after three weeks of working and there were a lot more groceries in the fridge than when she went to work and she’s like Jason where did all this food come from and like mom I promise I didn’t do anything bad I got a child. But cooking has been something that has stuck with me even up to this day I still find different recipes. You could find me on the weekends breaking out the smoker I have a traeger whether it’s brisket or some chicken or some ribs and. I am getting down but I’ve been in this business I’ve been in this industry for thirty plus years and I’m known as what some may call a restaurant lifer. Um, even though I’m a restaurant lifer I had some odd jobs. 01:53.21Jason BrooksIn between here and there because people that get in the restaurant business. They don’t typically wake up at the age of 7 and say I want to work in restaurants. You know they actually say I want to be a fireman or I want to be this? Um, so there was a time there that although I was good. In the restaurant business I fought it and I found that most people fight being in this business at some point because they think it’s trying to change them. They think that it’s trying to change themselves from being authentic. And it takes having that right mentor that right person that you lean on or your spouse or friend saying what are you doing you are you are good at this. You need to do this or you to then say? Okay I’m going to now truly invest my time in this. Um, but I’ve worked for 20 different restaurant brands 6 of the top 100 brands in the us and I always say this has given me the ability to view the Mona Lisa painted 20 different ways. Some of them are some amazing pieces of art. Some of them are just pieces but all of these learnings from all these brands help to shape my company called hospitalation which is hospitality and motivation and is putting that motivation back into hospitality. 03:23.31vigorbrandingFantastic. That’s great. Ah, and I you know I got to see some of your podcasts. They were wonderful and your energy is contagious I Love it. Absolutely love it. Um, so talk we’re gonna talk about your book. But let’s talk about hospiation a little bit I mean talk about what it does What you’ve been doing with it and you know give us some some background there. 03:27.43Jason BrooksAre. 03:42.45Jason BrooksUm, probation was made to help manage lead and coach restaurant tours executives back to some of the foundations that may have been lost, especially within the last four years there’s been some things lost within the skill set. Of our teams and also some some of of the things that as owners we need to recognize more of what our teams are missing to help close that gap so hospitalation helps to close the gap between. Customer or guest expectations and the operator or owner execution and we do this through coaching through speeches through workshops through books. Um, we try to meet. The owner meet the manager where they are and give those pieces and leave everything on the table I mean leave it all on field. There are no secrets. It’s just being able to help dive deeper into that team or into that person. To find out what really drove them to be successful and then help double down on those tactics on those skillsets for them to build better teams around them. 05:01.89vigorbrandingVery good. Um I mean like you know I look at I mean we we employ a lot of folks here in our company and probably 100 and some employees and you know different generations come in and I’ve been doing this for a really long time and you know I see different types of sort of attitudes and stuff and. You know we we we all lived through the whole covid thing and the restaurants I mean getting back and coming back I mean you you have in here about the motivation. Do. Do you feel like restaurants and the hospitality industry in general has lost its motivation. Are you feeling that that that they need that maybe ah, an infusion of ah of motivation. 05:38.37Jason BrooksUm, I mean it is motivation. It’s also a understanding of finding out and just remembering what made you successful before.. For example, there’s a lot of times whenever. Let’s let’s go through the whole ranks when a cook shifts into a manager role. What made them successful as a cook they tend to leave that behind as a manager or a manager into a multi-unit manager. Whenever you are a manager you’re running your own restaurant. Um, you tend to use ah a checklist you tend to create mini gms you tend to have all these things in place because there’s so much on your plate. That you need reminders to help make sure that you cover all the bases that you need to cover and then all of a sudden when they shift into a multi unit manager they tend to shoot from the hip. They don’t have any checklist. They don’t walk into the building studying anything about that business whenever they walk in if they’re running multiple restaurants same thing as owners we think that we are exuding some of the same things that made us successful. 06:56.88Jason BrooksBut we have to revisit. What is it exactly that made us successful within our last role and now how do we bring that into the next and that’s what that’s that motivation that is missing. We can’t leave things behind. We have to bring them with us. 07:14.34vigorbrandingGood. So okay, let’s talk about your book I see it behind you there leadership every leader needs followers 10 keys to transform restaurant managers into hospitality leaders. Um, it’s not easy to get people to follow. You is it as a leader. 07:17.99Jason BrooksUm, I Yes, um. 07:26.71Jason BrooksNo no, ask any social media manager it is it. It’s it’s very hard to get them to follow you and it’s even harder to keep them and that’s where that’s where some of the 10 keys. Covers is not only how do you build a followship and you have to be a wonderful follower yourself. But then how do you keep that as well. 07:54.33vigorbrandingVery good. So what? What? What do you think are the biggest mistakes the restaurant managers are making when it comes to being an effective leader. 08:02.48Jason BrooksHands down doing it by yourself I’ve seen it too many times we come in as a manager and we think that the things again the things I used to do I can just do it and then I’ll do it by myself. I don’t have trust and whenever you you try to lead a restaurant team by yourself. Yes, there’s things that you should bring with you but there’s a lot of management and leadership things that you have to learn because. Managing and leading a group of people is it natural. It is something that you have to invest time and and even money in order to make sure that you do this right? and when I say money as a investment time is money. When we put 3 hours of our life into something else that definitely cost us. We could be doing something else. But the return we get when we invest in the right way to manage lead and coach that return is just amazing and it’s not just. Managing leading and coaching is knowing the difference between the three because managing is using or or having a group of people keep. 09:24.99Jason BrooksKeeping them in the guard rails to hit a certain point by a certain time and remain within a certain budget. We use managing more than anything else within our day as a hospitality leader leadership is different. Leadership is is really understanding that. Overarching ah items about the industry about the trends about what’s going on about where to move the brand to next and it’s also when a group of people have run into a situation that they don’t know what the next step should be. And then that leadership mindset helps to shift it into painting the picture for them to see ah that’s exactly where we have to go I can’t believe I didn’t see that before now coaching is different than managing and leadership coaching is that mastery of small groups. 1 on one. That’s the thing that we forget to bring with us whenever we are trying to lead our teams is the coaching aspect. We think I don’t need to coach my teams. My team has been around been working together for the last two three years I pay him $15 per hour. They better know what to do, but it’s just not true and coaching also isn’t just you making 1 on 1 time to spew more stuff onto them coaching is actually you creating a space 30 minutes to listen to your team to find out what their challenges are. 10:59.85Jason BrooksBut they’re trying to accomplish about themselves a a about their family. All the things that helps build that relationship that when they’re in your building In. You’re not there. They have the the skillset to make the right choices with maximum results. That’s the key to coaching. 11:20.24vigorbrandingYeah that’s ah, that’s well said I know that a couple of things you said there were really really interesting. The 1 thing you said it was a big mistake people make is they do it themselves and you’re right I think as leaders sometimes we’re so used to doing things or we know how to do it and we take it for granted, we don’t take the time to for for lack of a word teach. And bring people along right? I mean you know it’s just ah, it’s one of those things where um, if you don’t take the time to to train and coach. Ah, you’re not you can’t expect them to to learn and and to excel I think that’s ah I think it’s a really good point that you made. Um so you know in your book you have 10 keys for effective restaurant leadership. 11:48.90Jason BrooksUm, but. 11:54.74vigorbrandingWant to talk about 1 of the one of those keys and you talk about kpis I mean obviously it’s important for the managers to know about the kpis but you feel it’s important for everyone to understand talk about that a little bit. Why why? Why are the kpi so important. 12:08.80Jason BrooksBecause of what we do every year as a business every year if you look at your window. Not just we do it every business that is on your block does the same thing they create this business plan. They make the business plan. They put a core of people that’s in the c-suite or just on the on the ownership team they make this business plan print it on a pretty parsial paper put it in a frame hang it on a wall and then maybe a senior manager or 2 knows exactly what that is. And by the time it gets down to the guest-facing employee. It is lost so what I mean by master your kpis as being the number one key is that it isn’t just knowing your numbers It’s not just knowing sales. And and and your profits and your losses it is about how do you create that number and make a connection with the human element that is in your business every position and either help you or hurt you in making those business goals. The question is whenever we make those goals or big rocks. Do we know what we’re doing when we make those big rocks and whenever I say big I like to use the acronym b I g not just because I like the rapper but b I g because b if it’s a big rock. 13:35.69Jason BrooksThe B is for believable is the goal can it actually be attained I intentional. Yes, it may be a goal but are you actually putting effort is your team putting effort behind making that goal happen daily and then G grounded. Grounded is if we don’t make this goal. We will not be successful at what we do so whenever we make those goals those big rocks Those Kpis are we making it believable intentional and grounded and then when we do. How do we create that same pattern for what the buser does what the host does what the matrid does what? what the cook does every single person has to understand what is the human element in the things that they do within their role 3 things that they can do to help. 14:31.40vigorbrandingVery cool. So I mean sometimes though the Kpis the numbers and all that does that get in the way of the customer experience can that some kind sometimes dilute or detract from the attention that they deserve for the customer experience. 14:31.48Jason BrooksMake that happen. 14:37.92Jason BrooksAnd. I think that’s where whenever you break it down to make the human element behind it. That’s where it makes sense because you can say that it is to grow sales. But if it’s only about the dollar item. And you’re only telling that for just the server that they need to grow sales that doesn’t make sense that does take away from the from the experience but whenever you can say whenever you can actually connect with your guest and get them to come back 2 more times because you wowed them. Because you beat the guest to the hospitality meaning you were getting things for them that they didn’t even ask for that. You remembered their anniversary when you can make that true connection and make them choose us over someone else on on the same block. That’s how we build sales. So yes, it is a number but when you can connect the human element to it. That’s whenever you can actually you can improve that experience not just make it numerical. 15:50.00vigorbrandingYeah, you nailed it I mean at the end of the day we’re we’re serving. We’re serving guests and it’s people and we want to make their day. We want to make them feel special and it is more than just numbers at the end of the day there’s numbers involved when we gets paid. We’re doing this for business. It’s ah it’s a living. It’s a passion but it’s you know it all comes around the the customer I think that’s super important I think that ties into the next thing one of your chapters in your book owner like orientation. Ah, really interesting. We. We have a thing here in our company. Um, we we as an agency. Ah. Have a thing called Homeroom which goes back to the old school days we get together on a Tuesday morning the entire organization multiple cities and we we talk about the good the bad and the ugly of the industry and at the end we ask people what they’re passionate about passion is one of our core values. And we also talk about putting your name on the door and what we mean by that is if your name was on the door. What would you do what would you do differently how would you improve the company what do you suggest and so I think that’s like a really important thing and ah we want I want people to to act like owners if owners care. Ah, owners care about the customer so owner like orientation half the feeling might might tie in there. can you can you talk about that a little bit. 17:03.48Jason BrooksYes I think that definitely when we bring our team in with the bigger picture things happen and what I mean by that is that we typically do orientation wrong right now we’ll bring them in. We’ll have a table ready some aprons shirt hat name tag. And then they’ll have a seat a stack of paper and then they’ll scribe until the pen runs hot then we’ll take them back. Put them on a laptop for possibly some computer-based training and then put them on 1 position what we’re doing right? There is that the only thing that that they’re owning is three things. 1 table which happens to be their favorite break table if you ever notice the table you do orientation at ends up being their breakck table then 2 a laptop and 3 1 position and then for the next 6 to eight weeks we’re hoping and praying that they tend to branch out to do more. While the people who train them are just going crazy because they’re like Steve where are you getting these horrible hires from they don’t want to do anything so that’s where we first start out with doing orientation wrong which is one of the easiest way. That any listener can change their ro I on a new hires. What I propose is this tick scene table same setup papers all all of that good stuff when you bring them in shake their hand ask them if they’re thirsty and then say where we we are going to start outside. 18:37.73Jason BrooksYou take them outside and not just outside you take them out all the way out to the road by the curb on the edge by the cars driving by and you then say this is your restaurant and this is mine too and this is the view that every single customer sees whether they are stopping by here or not. They they see it from the curb all the way in and this is how we look compared to our neighbor and this neighbor we actually pick up all this trash from the curb all the way up every single day because we want to make sure that we look amazing to everyone that chooses to eat here or not. And then you walk them on it. We also sweep the parking lot not just up to the curb but all the way to the edge of the lot. This is our sidewalk. We actually scrub this this is our trash cans whenever we drop trash. We pick it up and then we sweep it and we keep the doors closed because we want to keep all the flies inside. We don’t want them flying out and then as you’re doing this as you’re walking them as you’re walking them through you’re you’re also checking their body language. How much does it suck whenever you hire someone and three weeks later they’re like ah this is too much for me I’m out of here wouldn’t you want to know on day zero. This is not going to work out. So as you’re walking them around the exterior giving them that owner like view as you walk them in now talk about sightlines for the customer and break it down to a 1 a 3 and a 5 a one being the lowest or subpar a 3 being par. 20:11.50Jason BrooksAnd a 5 being exceptional service and then you’re talking them through what a 1 3 or 5 is at the host stand with a host creek with it being neat and being tidy as they’re walking through the dining room what they can hear from the kitchen ass are sitting down. You’re now connecting. Your guest experience scores with your walkthrough and they now understand and see the whole building more as you’re doing this? Yes, you do add on forty five maybe fifty more minutes onto your onto your orientation. But the return on investment you get. Of them knowing that they can help when they pull up in the parking lot. Not just when they’re in position and then your trainer’s like oh man Steve these new hires you you you you ah must have got these guys from chick-fil-a. Dunked them in the back office in holy water and then brought them back out saying please and thank you like? no actually I just made sure that they understand the big picture on day one and then that way when I pass them off to you. They now see things differently. 21:22.40vigorbrandingThat’s great. That’s great, Well look as a marketing company I mean we’re hired to help build brands and oftentimes people think a brand is the logo the name. Maybe it’s the social media the personality that we project in the in the advertising and all that which is they’re all parts of the brand. But. 21:26.83Jason BrooksHe. 21:38.69vigorbrandingAt the end of the day I mean it’s how the customer feels when they’re in there. It’s the product of course. But it’s also the experience and that’s part of the brand. So the folks you’re training are your brand. Ah you know evangelists and they’re going to be what people remember when they drive by to use your your analogy going by the road and they look over at that restaurant. They’re going to remember how they felt. 21:40.57Jason BrooksGreater. But we can. 21:57.93vigorbrandingWhen they were there Sure they’re going to think about the food and if it was good and it was a good value. Did I they treat but that that experience and and it’s really going to be those folks that you’re training that are going to make that good or bad and we’ve all eaten it. Phenomenal restaurants. Food was great and and the the service was bad, something went wrong along the way. 22:04.97Jason BrooksAre are are. 22:15.71vigorbrandingAnd in this day and age we can’t afford that I mean every touch point of the brand has to be at its peak and the people are are really integral to the the whole thing um key 6 another one of your your your your keys now I think you and I might disagree on this. Maybe we don’t I don’t know but I’m gonna I’ll dive into it. Master. 22:31.87Jason BrooksI. 22:34.68vigorbrandingMaster your meetings I hate meetings I think meetings end up being half of them more than half of them are a waste of time perhaps because I’m in them I don’t know but I just I don’t find them to be I don’t find them to be valuable at all and you know you have agendas you have follow through. You have ah deadlines and all that stuff. But. So talk to me about mastering a meeting and maybe ah maybe I’m going to learn a lot here because I have a feeling I’m going to. 22:59.23Jason BrooksWell first we suck at meetings and no, no, we we actually suck at meetings because there’s times we we ah ah have meetings in order to fill. 23:02.30vigorbrandingOkay, maybe that’s it Maybe I sucked at me. Maybe ah maybe maybe that’s when I learned this whole thing. Okay, so. 23:16.30Jason BrooksTime and space a meeting should be defined as the reason why I’m asking you to step away from your role is because the thing that we need to make a decision on. We can’t unless you are there. That’s it. 23:32.81vigorbrandingMe here. 23:35.97Jason BrooksIf that doesn’t apply to the person that’s at the table. They shouldn’t be at the table 1 and 2 you probably shouldn’t be having that meeting now a a meeting that is repetitive like let’s say a manager’s meeting why sometimes they suck. Is because it is a data dump. It is a absolute data I treat meetings the same way I treat one on ones except even a bit more extreme if it’s my meeting that I’m running I should be speaking 20% of the time. The rest of my team is speaking 80. 24:12.30vigorbrandingAnd. 24:14.29Jason BrooksAnd that’s because at that point I’ve already done um key number 3 in the book which is delegate by creating many gms I have created many managers within each department and their goal is to report out on. What’s going on and those goals from from my many gms are linked to key number 1 master your kpis they understand what the kpis are they understand the human element that is behind it and they deep dive on that data and bring it to the table. So. When it comes to to key number 6 mastering your meetings. The main thing you have to do is understand that if you weren’t sitting down to make a decision. You shouldn’t be there and 2 if it is something that is a consistent meeting. It’s a 20% from the person that’s running it and 80% from everything else because when you do that you then build this ownership and a different view on things within your building I’ll say one last piece we have gotten into firefighting way too much. We have some amazing firemen and fire women within the hospitality industry but we’ve got to stop firefighting because when you firefight you shoot from the hip you see the fire you pull the hose out. 25:41.82Jason BrooksAnd you just start dumping water on that fire. But when a fire happens in a building think about it. You’re facing one side of the building and you can only see one side.. There can be several things that is going on all around that building. We’ve got to stop being. Fire men and fire women and we had to start being fire Chiefs A fire Chief has firemen and fire women all around the building putting out these fires for us and we can say the same thing about these meetings whenever you are fire chiefing your meeting your fire team. Understands exactly what’s going on but you have put them in places around your business to know where those spires are to where you have better control of everything else. 26:30.96vigorbrandingThat’s good analogy I mean I I love analogies and I think that makes it very so that’s why you’re good at what you do I mean it was very easily understood. Well done. Um, okay so training we talk about the importance of training right? and we ah we know it’s important to train. 26:32.72Jason BrooksAre. 26:44.63vigorbrandingAh, you feel it’s important for ongoing training which I think is interesting and and certainly makes an awful lot of sense. Um, why why is that I mean like let’s face it with with a turnover in this world with with people. Maybe they’re not going to be in the job for three months why would I spend so much time training them. Um you you feel that’s important. Let’s talk about that. 27:03.91Jason BrooksYeah I definitely feel that um, never stop training is one of the keys to being successful and of course we like to say it but we don’t really like to budget it. We can train our way in and out of anything. We really can. How we fall short of executing never stop training is that we don’t have a training plan that again goes back to what the plan is we have we have a training plan. Yes, but it’s a training plan one. That’s probably been the same training plan for the last 3 4 or 5 years versus each year do we sit down and say now that our objective is this? how are we training it’s not just how we hit that number. It’s not just growing digital sales. It’s not just getting better marketing. It’s. Do we have that included within the training poke in in the in the training program for our teams or are we just adding that in here and there second piece to never stop training is it absolutely as you and I both know it needs to be written down that that doesn’t mean. That our team currently trucks at sucks at training that means that our team has several things on their mind bills spouse car. All that good stuff they are going to lose their thought and their focus. 28:31.35Jason BrooksOn the thing that they should be training that that should be a core fundamental. That’s whenever that never stop training that checklist training helps because we we want you to say all the foundational things and with how long you’ve been with me I still want you to add on. That whipped cream the cherry and the sprinkles on top from all the things that you do well to but I want to make sure that the foundation of what’s being said to every single person is done last piece on never stop training I believe that you continue training. All the way up to their last day even if they put in a two week notice you train them all the way up to their last day and do you know why? because if you have 50 people that’s on your staff and you now have 51 because you are replacing one that put in their notice. It doesn’t help you by saying well I got one more so I’m a stop training the person who’s leaving no whenever you train the one that’s leaving you are also shifting that training you’re shifting that mindset you’re training them. How to onboard onto a different team even if it is your competitor you are training them how to get on board. How to get to learn the people how to get to learn their culture because a few things happen when that happens one everyone around you. 30:01.10Jason BrooksIt’s watching the attention you’re still putting into the person that’s leaving and they’re like that is a true coach and then number 2 number 2 is how many times is it that the grass is truly greener on the other side. So you shipped into the alma still keep training you I’m going to train you to be the next whatever that you are getting into. Let’s say you get there and it sucks guess what’s going to happen. Ah Jason ah I actually want to come back because grass isn’t greener. Then you’re able to now still build on your team but I truly believe you should never stop training even when they put in a notice. 30:42.62vigorbrandingYeah I Think that’s Great. We’ve had an awful lot. We call them. Boomerangs. We’ve had several people leave during the great resignation. You know for the grass being greener and we’ve had several boomerangs come back and you make another really wonderful point and that is people around you that are on your team that are staying on your team that are. Loyal and dedicated. They see how you treat people when they leave and um, that’s a reflection on you as a leader and I think that’s really important to to keep that in mind. Ah you know if you sit there and say bad things about somebody. You know the moment the door closes behind them just ah, that’s just really a poor reflection on and on you as Leader. So I think that’s ah I think it’s very sage advice. 31:08.00Jason BrooksAre you. 31:20.12vigorbrandingRight? So um, we talked about training another thing you talk about which I find this to be I think this is really important ah closing the gap between the restaurant manager and what the customer sees I mean again. Ah you know we always often say we’re too close to it I think that may be the case here with with managers you want to talk a little bit about that. 31:20.86Jason BrooksBrother I know. 31:39.10Jason BrooksOh yes I I love this topic um and closing the gap is is. It’s there because we live the 2 wheel life michael do you know what? the 2 wheel life is okay. 31:50.89vigorbrandingI do not know what the 2 wheel life is I don’t own a motorcycle so I assume that’s what it is but I mean maybe not. 31:56.87Jason BrooksIs that although our car has 4 Wheels we are pulling into the parking lot. So damn fast. We may as well be on 2 wheels and do you know why? because we’ve gotten that fourteenth text with the fifth picture about the close last night and our main truck call said that they’re short on drivers and now the truck order is due. third third 30 minutes ago and payroll calls someone forgot to clock out last weekend and you have to log into the portal and change your hours or else they can’t process payroll so that’s why you’re on 2 wheels. Doors open Bigfoot Dragon trying to get out the car and you walk up to the front the host and has a line and you’re like ah let me come help get these table sat bus some tables run to the back, get the line down. Finally get your truck order in fix payroll. But by this time. You are on fire. Your heartbeat is racing 120 beats per minute you are lapping like Nascar you’re touching tables. You’re pointing out things to clean and you’re like whoa girl I’m on fire this is amazing. You work a triple double that day heartbeat racing. And you get home somehow fall asleep and then your email goes off ding and it’s that guest complete a 2 on clean. They had a horrible experience. You just about flip your table but they’re lying no way I was there all day. 33:30.25Jason BrooksI worked the whole day I was lapping like Nascar I was touching on tables I was telling people what to clean. There’s no way. But there’s a gap. There’s a gap between what the operator experiences and what the guest does and that gap is because we are walking through like the terminator. Head on swivel I view Twenty feet out twenty feet wide looking for the next fire fire hose on the hip just looking for that next fire and we are standing at at an average five foot six height looking down to see what that next thing is. Our customers though. It’s very different their heart rate actually slows down when they’re pulling onto our lot first, they want to see are we open. They want to see is the parking lot. Clean does it look like someone lives here. They then pull up they get out. Ah, the car slow walk up to the door and then the the guest learned this trick from covid they now check the little slit of the door to see is the bar there because they don’t want to yank um, make on the door and pull their arm out their sockt like ah it’s open. So then they finally get in like yes I can stop eating from the dashboard of my car they walk in their heartbeats slow down things are good and then they sit down and they’re sitting at an average of three feet high heart rate heart rate has slowed down eyes are dimmer. 34:59.56Jason BrooksWhen your eyes when the the ah light is dimmer your your pupils actually get bigger and then whenever you’re looking at a distance of about eighteen inches from the table to your food. You are looking at that eighteen inch and then no higher than three feet while the manager heart rate fast 20 by 20 view and walking quickly. There’s a huge gap there in order to close that gap one of the things that that you have to practice which is hard is pulling yourself out the shift. Scheduling yourself to not be in position sometimes that’s hard. We are trained from day one that when things are short we are locked in. We make that happen. But at least once a week you have to take that customer view and I’m not taking and I’m not talking taking the view. Right? before it opens. That’s like having a super bowl ad well before the game starts when it’s peak periods walk out to your lot all way to the edge view. What’s going on because that’s when the most advertising is being done walk up through the lot. Then walk in then you’re listening in then you’re hearing what’s going on when you do this during peak volumes once a week even if you can’t once a month 36:24.00Jason BrooksThat helps you to understand what that what the guest is actually going through versus well before opening or after close. 36:33.99vigorbrandingThat’s great Jason I love your passion I got to tell you so like what? what’s what’s next for you. Ah, you’re making your rounds as the speaker I mean is there a new book any trips coming up. 36:44.20Jason BrooksAnd there is a if there is a pocket companion to the book that is going to be coming out. Ah the every leader pocket guide something that managers owners can can actually have on them. Ah, a flip book style to be able to keep them on track to never lead alone again. I actually have another ah session. That’s that’s coming up for the international bowl expo that’s going to be in Denver um I will be at the qsr. Evolution conference with Danny Klein I’ll be moderating one of the panels of how to scale culture. Um, there’s a few more speaking engagements that that I’m closing in on now. But it’s been very busy, but it’s been great I get to meet lovely people just like you just like your listeners and talk great shop about what’s going on and how to put that people piece with the numbers in order to better manage lead and coach. 37:47.34vigorbrandingYeah, it’s it’s awesome I mean this industry is a way of life and it is ah people dealing with people and I think that’s super important and it does make it very tactical and grounded and it’s ah it’s great to have people like you out there helping lead and coach and teach. So ah. That’s fantastic. So I have one last question. Let’s go I asked this of everybody if you had 1 last meal. What would you eat where and why. 38:10.40Jason BrooksI have 2 answers for that first answer is a place that I haven’t been yet but I hear great things about and my last meal for that would be Oso Buco from pierro’s in Las Vegas 38:24.16vigorbrandingNice. 38:26.68Jason BrooksAh, heard that they make some amazing. Oh so puco. But that that would be 1 that I haven’t been to but would love to um, second one is I’m going to cheat and say that I’m very. Egotistical and I love my own food if you just give me the food and let me cook it I will that will be more than glad to be my last meal. So I I would do brisket. It takes me about three days um beef brisket i’d. 38:51.52vigorbrandingWhat would be what what? what? What are you cooking for yourself. 39:00.41vigorbrandingNice. 39:02.74Jason BrooksI trim it my I trim it my my ah my ah self and then I will slather it with some horse radish I make my own rub. Let it sit for about 48 hours smoke it low until it gets to write about one sixty pull that baby out wrap it in some parchment paper. Put it back in. Let it get to 206 pull it out at 8 put it inside the cooler just a regular cooler for 4 hours slice that baby up make the barbecue sauce from scratch and then do a smoked bake mac and cheese. With some grilled corn and um, yeah, that’s it right? there? um. 39:44.65vigorbrandingIt sounds fantastic I even eat lunch day so I’m starving. That’s you did well that was that was as good as anything that’s beautiful, beautiful well done so hey listen Jason thank you so much for your time and your insights it was really really ah educational. Thank you. 40:00.59Jason BrooksThank you Sir and I do appreciate the invite you listeners have ah ah a wonderful time Fork tales. Thank you so much. This has been great. 40:07.34vigorbrandingAwesome! See you soon. 

If you are a property management entrepreneur, you have likely been your own salesperson or BDM at some point. Eventually, every property management business owner will need to hire a salesperson and develop different growth engines. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull talk about their BDM Bootcamp event You'll Learn [01:52] What is a BDM? [03:00] Get your BDM Ready for BDM Bootcamp [08:42] You Need a Sales Pipeline! [14:26] Benefits of In-Person Events Tweetables “It's not the growth strategy that's the problem. It's that there's multiple stages in a pipeline for each growth engine, and you are not identifying the leaks that exist in this pipeline.” “Your pipeline will literally never ever work if you don't even have one.” “If you're not working the pipeline and you don't know the different stages of a pipeline, you're just guessing, and you're just hoping.” “You need to get to the real pain and related that you need to get to the real pleasure, like what they really want. Nobody really wants property management” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: It's not the growth strategy that's the problem. It's that there's multiple stages in a pipeline for each growth engine and you are not identifying the leaks that exist in this pipeline or you're tolerating drop off at one of these stages.  [00:00:17] Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing a business and life. And you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. [00:00:36] DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management, business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, Jason and Sarah Hull. [00:01:15] Now let's get into the show. All right. So today we're going to be talking about BDMs.  [00:01:24] Sarah: Yeah.  [00:01:26] Jason: In honor of this event that we have coming up, which is. Going to be super cool. I don't know that there's been anything like this. That's been as cool as this that's existed in the property management space, maybe ever. [00:01:39] There's a lot of people that talk about BDMs, but there's very few that are actually getting BDMs to get great results. And we're going to be hosting a BDM bootcamp. And so Before we go any further, every time I start talking about BDMs, as if everybody knows what it is. I just talked to a guy with, I think, 800 doors the other day. [00:02:00] He's like, "what's a BDM?" I was like, man, okay, I need to make sure I explained this. BDMs are business development managers. Sometimes they're called BDs, business developers and they're salespeople for property management. That's what people will call them, right? Business development can happen in any industry. [00:02:18] But the reason we use the phrase BDM in property management is because property management is closely connected to real estate. And whenever you mentioned sales, people get it confused with real estate brokerage sales type of stuff. And that's why. Now everybody knows what a BDM is, and we're going to be talking a little bit about that today. [00:02:37] Sarah: Okay.  [00:02:38] Jason: So anyone listening to the show, you better know what a BDM is from now on. That's it.  [00:02:43] Sarah: There's a quiz at the end.  [00:02:44] Jason: What is a BDM? Did you get it right? If not, go back and start this episode over.  [00:02:49] Sarah: Try again.  [00:02:51] Jason: Okay. All right. What do we talk...? Do you want to like tell them about the event? [00:02:56] What do we want to talk about?  [00:02:58] Sarah: Yes. Tell them about the event. So we are launching a BDM bootcamp. So there's a lot of companies that promote getting BDMs. And there's a lot of companies that promote getting BDMs and then spending a bunch of money to run ads and get leads and pay for leads and then have the BDM work the leads. [00:03:21] And then if you just want the BDM to close more deals, it's simple. All you have to do is spend more money and buy more leads. Which is really expensive and wildly ineffective. So we have strategies that BDMs use...  [00:03:35] Jason: that actually work  [00:03:37] Sarah: ...that are free, or at least very inexpensive. [00:03:40] You might have to pay for lunch. That's okay. You get something out of it too. And we've decided that we're going to launch a BDM, aka salesperson, boot camp. It's going to be a one day training. And we've never done anything like this before. For those of you that are current clients, there's some trainings on DoorGrow Academy. [00:04:01] We run every wednesday, our growth accelerator calls, but it's hard to amass all of this information that Jason and I have learned about sales over the last, what, 20 something years and put it in a course. Or talk about it on a one hour call. It's darn near impossible, right? So what we wanted to do is we wanted to take some of this information and spend one day going over all of it. [00:04:31] Now, this is very likely going to end up being a series because we can probably talk about sales and strategies and tactics and how to improve your scripts and what to say and like NLP language and filler words and all this good stuff, we can go over this for probably days on end. So what we're doing is this is very likely going to end up being a series, but we're going to launch the first one in April, so for those of you that are watching live, you all have a chance to get in on that for those of you that are watching this recording is will probably be released after the event, but don't fret because  [00:05:11] Jason: you may have missed it.  [00:05:12] Sarah: You might have missed it. Oh, man.  [00:05:15] Jason: Maybe you should get in our Facebook group and pay attention to the live streams. [00:05:19] So you don't miss stuff.  [00:05:20] Sarah: Sometimes we do some cool things that you need to know about right now.  [00:05:23] Jason: The Facebook group, go to doorgrowclub.Com apply. We reject 70 percent of the applicants, which is why the group is good.  [00:05:31] Sarah: Okay.  [00:05:32] Jason: Okay.  [00:05:32] Sarah: Anyway. So that was our shameless plug. All right. No, right. Go ahead. [00:05:36] If you've missed it. Yeah, we don't have a word from ourselves yet. That's a great idea. Who wants to sponsor this podcast? We'll plug you on every episode. Talk to me, baby. So anyway, if you've missed it. Sad for you, but don't fret because there's going to be more of these. This won't be a once and done thing. [00:05:55] So for those of you that are listening now and or hear the information before the event, then this is going to be for you. So here's the information. It will be Thursday, April 11th. So this is also open to anyone on your team who handles sales, meaning it might be you, it might be somebody else. You may have multiple people on the team who handle sales. So if you would like Jason and myself to train your salespeople for a day. This is a really great opportunity for you because that's exactly what we're doing. [00:06:33] So do you want to tell them a little bit about what we're talking about? Or do you want me to do that?  [00:06:38] Jason: I'll go ahead. So we've seen a lot of problems with businesses growing. And so if you, have a BDM or if you are the BDM, you're the business owner, you're the one that closes deals and you are not adding at least a hundred orders a year, hopefully through organic methods instead of wasting a bunch of money on advertising to get cold crappy leads, we're going to give you the strategies, we're going to focus on some different growth engines talking about those. We're going to get into specific pipeline stages because what I often identify is that it's not the growth strategy that's the problem. It's that there's multiple stages in a pipeline for each growth engine and you are not identifying the leaks that exist in this pipeline, or you're tolerating drop off at one of these stages. And not making progress and so we're going to help you identify where the leaks are if you've started building some of these growth engines, you may have started doing things like trying to do realtor referrals and it's not working very well. [00:07:39] You're not getting easily 10 doors a month from that. You might maybe you've heard of our neighbor strategy and you're not getting referrals from that. Maybe you've heard of some other of our strategies, it's not working. And if you haven't heard of these, then you might want to show up, but we're going to talk about the different stages. [00:07:55] We're going to talk about what maybe is affecting things at different stages. This will be very tailored to those that are in attendance. We want to help you move your business forward significantly. And sometimes there's very simple tweaks that could be done at each of these stages that opens the floodgates. [00:08:10] So you have a lot more flow through the pipeline, which means more deals and more money.  [00:08:15] Sarah: Yeah. So back up because you skipped to topic number two, which is cool. We can do two and then one and then three and then four, but that's fine.  [00:08:21] Jason: They're not numbered.  [00:08:22] Sarah: They're not, but they are in order on the document. [00:08:24] Jason: Okay.  [00:08:25] Sarah: Yeah. [00:08:25] Jason: So Sarah's an operator and everything has to be done a certain way. There is a right way for operators.  [00:08:32] Sarah: There's a right way to do literally every task on the planet.  [00:08:34] Jason: I'm talking to the business owners and they care most about what is interesting or different, but...  [00:08:42] Sarah: yes, and I understand, but your pipeline will literally never ever work if you don't even have one. [00:08:50] Jason: That's true.  [00:08:51] Sarah: Or you don't know the stages of a pipeline because a lot of times, and I bet this happens to you too, but it happens to me when I ask people, okay, "what does your sales process look like?" [00:09:00] " Oh, I talked to somebody." "Okay, great. And then what?" "Oh, and then I send them some information." "Great. And then what?" [00:09:05] Jason: "I wait." [00:09:06] Sarah: "Oh, then I wait." "Oh, okay. Like, do you call them again or do you check in or do you like set up another call?"  [00:09:13] Jason: "Or I follow up in a way that I look needy and creepy?"  [00:09:16] Sarah: Sometimes the answer is yes. And then sometimes the answer is no, but even if they do follow up or have another call or check in again, somehow, then my next question again is "okay, and then what?" And then they go, "oh, and then I just wait." So essentially what happens is you have no pipeline. Okay. And you don't know that you don't have a pipeline, but you don't have a pipeline. [00:09:35] And that means if you're not working the pipeline and you don't know the different stages of a pipeline, we're just guessing, and we're just hoping. We're going, "I don't know. I keep talking to all these people, but nothing seems to be closing. And I don't understand why," because you don't have pipeline stages. [00:09:49] Jason: Okay.  [00:09:49] Sarah: So you got to need a pipeline.  [00:09:51] Jason: So we'll teach you how to build out the pipeline. We'll talk about the different stages that need to exist. And then it'll be a lot more clear and we'll talk with you about how to build that out in your CRM of choice. So you'll understand the principles. [00:10:04] You can go apply this to whatever CRM you use, whether it's DoorGrow CRM or lead simple or whatever else is out there. Okay, I'll go to number three now that we're back in order. Okay. All right. Number three, [00:10:19] Uncovering your client's pain points. So superficially people think they know the pain of their target audience. So they want their property manager. They don't want to have to deal with managing the rental property. That is not the real pain that gets you to close deals that you have to go a lot deeper than that. [00:10:36] And so we're going to talk about how to disarm people, how to not come across as super salesy, how to create authentic communication and an authentic relationship where they believe that you can help them and how to get them to open up about what the real pain is, the real stress of the real emotion that might be motivating them to have a conversation with you. [00:11:00] And one of the biggest problems we see in sales is that a lot of people don't take time to identify what the real pain is. The pain often has not really anything to do with the rental property. It's something going on in their personal life. And so you need to figure out how to connect to that. [00:11:16] And for some that's like, "Whoa," that's like, "I don't know how to do that. That'd be weird or awkward," but you need to get to the real pain and related that you need to get to the real pleasure, like what they really want. Nobody really wants property management, right? Just like if you're booking a trip to Hawaii. [00:11:34] Property management is the flight to Hawaii. It's not the paradise. It's not the outcome that they're hoping for. It is property management. So we want to sell the trip. We want to sell Hawaii, not the flight there, right? Which is property management. So we'll talk about also getting towards the, not just the pain, but the pleasure. [00:11:54] Those are the 2 ingredients you really need to know and uncover in order to close the deal. And so if you're not closing deals, it's probably because somebody else is better at that than you. You're one of your competitors, or they're just going to go with the cheapest company because you haven't really created a connection. [00:12:11] And so they think you're a commodity. You do everything everyone else does. And so that we'll get into that. All right. So good?  [00:12:18] Sarah: That was good.  [00:12:19] Jason: Number four, reviewing and improving your call scripts to book more appointments and close more deals. So we want to like, take a look at what are you saying? And you may think, "I don't have scripts. [00:12:30] I'm just awesome. I just wing it every time." I guarantee 90 percent of the time, you're saying similar things, dealing with objections in similar ways. And so you have a script. It just probably isn't a very clearly defined one, which means it's probably not a very good one because you haven't taken an objective look at it to optimize or improve it. [00:12:50] And so we're going to take a look at some scripts that are effective and figure out ways to improve your scripts. And sometimes it's not even about what you're saying. It's about how you say it. And so we're going to focus on some of the magic that comes with how you communicate with people. I've got clients that are not salespeople, like no real training in sales, terrible at sales. And they're crushing it because they know how to be authentic. They are communicating in a way that's disarming and they're just being helpful. And so we're going to talk about some of that stuff. How to close more deals. Some of you that are so good at sales, you're super salesy, you like cut your teeth as a baby in real estate and like you're a shark, like we're going to help you figure out how to undo a lot of that mess so that you can create more trust and sales and deals happen at the speed of trust. [00:13:44] And so we're going to help you close more business, which will make things a lot better. Okay.  [00:13:50] Sarah: That's what we've got. All right. That's our agenda. And if this sounds interesting to you, now, our hope is that once you come to this event, you'll obviously get a lot out of it and learn a lot about sales that we just typically can't cover on a one hour call. [00:14:07] It's just, it's too much. I can talk about 1 of those things for more than an hour. Right? Once you come to this event, you'll learn a lot and you'll be able to immediately implement these things so that very quickly, you will start seeing some changes and some positive results and momentum.  [00:14:24] Jason: So why do this in person? [00:14:26] So let me talk about that. One of the things we've noticed in DoorGrow's, I'm starting to call it the real bubble. And so there's this mentality, I think, unconsciously in our brain. So when we're doing stuff on zoom calls and zoom meetings, which we do a lot of cool stuff that way DoorGrow, but we've noticed that when we get people in person for the first time they meet Sarah and I and realize we're real human beings. [00:14:48] We're not just something on video and that we're real and they can like hug us. And like we touch right? Like then something shifts in their brain that everything else they're saying is real. When they start to meet clients that they've seen on some of the Zoom calls, sharing their wins and talking about crushing it and adding doors. [00:15:07] They're like, "Oh, these are real people." And then the brain shifts and they start to connect that, "Hey, if they're real, and this is real and they're getting real results and they're like me, I'm a human, like I can do this too." And all of this stuff is actually true, impossible. And so we've noticed a shift in clients once they come to DoorGrow live, which is coming up in May, or they come to one of our in person events. [00:15:32] And so we want to do this in person because there's something magical about in person that content and information is absorbed. A lot more easily. There's also that sort of kinesthetic aspect that we're there physically but the learning is a bit more experiential. We'll be able to maybe even role play, go over some scripts, talk, like, say things. [00:15:52] It's just a bit more real than just seeing something on video or watching a video replay or something like that. And so come pierce the real veil with DoorGrow and realize the real magic that exists.  [00:16:03] Sarah: All right. Yes. And at this point you guys might be wondering all right, so this sounds pretty good. [00:16:09] I think I might be interested. What do I do? Contact me. Don't contact anybody else on the team. They're not even going to know what you're talking about. Just contact me so you can get in touch with me. It's Sarah S-A-R-A-H. If you go to our website and you end up talking with somebody else on the team, they will point you in my direction and you can get registered that way. [00:16:29] Now, tickets for this will be 1k per person. You can have as many people on your team attend as you would like. So if you have 3 BDMs and you want to send all 3. If there's just one or two, maybe that you want to send or you want to come check it out yourself, go ahead. But you'll need to let me know now spots are going to be limited. I don't even have 20 spots. I actually need to go back and confirm how many I have left because I know we had some people interested. But the price for this will be 1k per person. And I know that the price will not stay. At that rate. [00:17:03] So we're launching it and we're doing something special with the price. So for now, take us our one case. So get in while the cost is low.  [00:17:12] Jason: There you go. All right. You will easily offset the cost of doing this. For most of you, that's like getting one more deal, right? So lifetime value for most of your clients, probably a lot higher, like maybe 10 times. [00:17:27] Maybe 20 times higher if you can keep them a while, right? So this is a no brainer. This is very easy and we can get your BDM adding a lot more doors. So just like some client results, we've got clients that are easily some BDM are adding 200- 300 doors a year organically without paying for any SEO or pay per click or content marketing or social media marketing or pay per lead services like APM and they're able to grow and scale their business quickly through organic methods. [00:17:56] Sarah: And we have some clients that turn business away every single month because they just cannot.  [00:18:02] Jason: Get pickier and pickier.  [00:18:03] Sarah: Yeah, they're backlogged. And then they ask us on the calls what do I do? Like, "I don't want to say no, but then I can't take on this many." And we're like, "now you have a waiting list and you can take on X money per month." [00:18:14] And if they can't come on this month or they missed that deadline, then roll them over to the next month. If they qualify.  [00:18:20] Jason: Okay. All right. So that is BDM bootcamp. So check out BDM bootcamp, reach out to sarah@doorgrow.Com. Sarah with an H.  [00:18:28] Sarah: Yeah, if you spell my name wrong, I'm not talking to you cause I won't get it. [00:18:32] Jason: Okay. That's your punishment.  [00:18:34] Wow. Okay.  [00:18:35] Sarah: So don't forget my H because everyone does.  [00:18:38] Jason: Just email me. I'm nicer.  [00:18:40] Sarah: He never checks his email. Don't email him. That's true.  [00:18:42] Jason: My assistant does. Don't do it. All right.  [00:18:44] Sarah: You'll never hear back the black hole.  [00:18:46] Jason: No, my assistant's good. She'll take care of it. I just won't see it. [00:18:51] She'll tell me about it if it's important. All right. For those of you that are wanting to join a community, be part of something awesome, reach out to us. And so you can learn more about DoorGrow Mastermind. You get access to some of the coolest stuff and to be part of the coolest community of the most growth minded property management business owners in the industry. [00:19:11] And we can help you get your business to the next level. So whether it's scaling operations, whether it's figuring out how to grow, whether it's cleaning up the front end of your business, getting your website and your pricing, right, all this kind of stuff. So we can help you. All right. Check us out at doorgrow. com until next time to our mutual growth, everybody. Bye for now. [00:19:33] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:19:59] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

DoorGrow Live 2024 is upon us! If you have been in the property management space for a little while now, you're probably familiar with DoorGrow Live.  In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah explain how this year's is expanding upon previous DoorGrow Live events. This year's theme focuses on creating opportunity in times of uncertainty. Be there May 17-18 in Round Rock, TX. You'll Learn [01:20] DoorGrow Live, the property management event you don't want to miss [03:58] 2024: Creating Opportunity Through Uncertainty [05:48] Using these hectic times to your advantage [07:07] First glance at DoorGrow Live topics [08:32] Networking with growth-minded people Tweetables “The market is very uncertain right now, but that is such a great opportunity to do something with it.” “It's not hard to step up and showcase leadership and become a leader in times of crisis.” “There's all sorts of craziness that's going to be happening, and this is a big opportunity for you to get more market share to get more investments.” “This is how some of the largest companies were built were during like recessions or depressions or time periods where they decided to double down and to focus on growth instead of scale back and be a fearful like everybody else. This is when winners are made.”   Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: This is when winners are made. And so we want our clients and those that are close to us and attending DoorGrow Live to be those that capitalize and succeed in this industry.  [00:00:11] Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently then you are a DoorGrow property manager.  [00:00:29] DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not, because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:00:49] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management, growth experts, Jason and Sarah Hull the founder and CEO of DoorGrow and the operator COO of DoorGrow. [00:01:13] And now let's get into the show.  [00:01:16] All right, we'll get that figured out eventually. [00:01:18] I always love it.  [00:01:19] Okay. So what we're going to be talking about today is what, Sarah?  [00:01:24] Sarah: DoorGrow Live  [00:01:25] Jason: DoorGrow live. DoorGrow Live! Yeah, so DoorGrow Live is our premier conference that we do once a year and it's pretty great. [00:01:35] So what do we want to say about it?  [00:01:37] Sarah: All right. So let's get them some of the information first. You can get all of this information at DoorGrowlive.Com. So that's the first thing is Just go to doorgrowlive.Com. Everything is on there except for our agenda, which we have not yet released. [00:01:53] We've got so much good stuff planned for you guys, but we're keeping the agenda a little close right now. So the dates for the event. It's a Friday and Saturday. It's May 17th and 18th, and it's in North Austin, Texas. The city is actually Round Rock, but no one knows where that is, so North Austin, Texas. [00:02:13] Okay, and where are we holding it this year?  [00:02:17] Jason: It's going to be at the Kalahari Resort in Round Rock, Texas So this is a really cool resort. it's really large and it's brand new. It's just built in the last several years.  [00:02:28] Sarah: 2020? Bad launch date.  [00:02:30] Jason: Yeah, they launched it not knowing there was going to be a pandemic.  [00:02:33] Sarah: Yeah, I think they opened and then the whole world shut down. [00:02:36] Jason: Yeah. And they have I believe the United States' largest indoor water park. It has this big indoor water park. Which could be fun. Yeah. If you're into that, or you can bring the kiddos maybe with you, but and it has several good restaurants and it's right in the heart of Round Rock. [00:02:51] Round Rock is just such a cute, cool town. The downtown area is really cool. There's all sorts of, great little restaurants and, bars and whatever you're into. So it's a fun little area and you're just hop, skip, and jump to get to downtown Austin. It's, Flying into Austin, one of the easiest, best airports. [00:03:09] I love being close to be able to get places through that airport.  [00:03:13] Sarah: Yeah. And they have a lot of flights. Yeah. They really do. They have flights from everywhere. So it's very central. It's easy to get on into. And the airport is really great.  [00:03:22] Jason: And then it's a quick drive over to the Kalahari resort where you can book your room and stay. And we've got a special group rate for you there so.  [00:03:30] Sarah: We do.  [00:03:31] Jason: We negotiated, so.  [00:03:33] Sarah: We do. Jason's assistant Mar, she always negotiates really great deals for you guys. If you want to just go ahead and book, you can, but if you'd rather get the discounted room rate, go to doorgrowlive.Com and then click on the link to register. [00:03:48] And that will help you get registered for the event and it will help you book your room at the discounted room rate. So that way you can get... I like saving money. I like it. It's great for me.  [00:03:59] Jason: All right. So what else do we want to tell them about DoorGrow Live?  [00:04:02] Sarah: Oh, okay. So this year's theme is going to be Creating Opportunity Through Uncertainty. [00:04:09] It's a weird year. So I really don't know what's happening with the market. There's a lot of talk. Is it going up? Is it going down? Are interest rates going to change? What's happening with property management? Right now it's a little bit harder to rent things out, whereas before, you could find a tenant in about a week or two. [00:04:26] And now that has changed and slowed down. And I'm hearing from some people that they're worried about their competitors or new companies are popping up that want to leverage AI and All kinds of technology and not have a lot of humans involved and, all the good stuff. So it's just a weird year and the market is very uncertain right now, but that is such a great opportunity to do something with it. [00:04:52] So we want to talk with you guys about how you can actually grow your company right now. This is not going to be well, "Hey, this might be relevant in three years if the market does this," this is relevant right now. So we're going to talk about actual strategies that you can implement today.... the day after the conference... if you attend. [00:05:09] And that you can just immediately implement them and start growing because we have some really amazing things planned for this conference.  [00:05:18] Jason: One of the things that I've noticed over the last several events that we've done and our plans for this one, just to give you a little bit of a teaser is we have a focus on those that want to be involved as investors. [00:05:32] And most property managers are investors and they're serving investors. And so some of the people are bringing in some of the conversations we're going to be having are how did structure, creative deals especially in this environment where we've got high interest rates and things are a little crazy. [00:05:48] And what Sarah said is true. 2024 is an election year, right? Every time there's an election cycle, the most powerful people and decision makers that control our lives to some degree start making things crazy. And there's opposing sides and it gets wild. So there's a lot of uncertainty that happens every election cycle. [00:06:06] Look at 2020, look at four years before that, look at 2024. There's all sorts of craziness that's going to be happening, and this is a big opportunity for you to get more market share to get more investments. There's going to be a big opportunity, I think, for you to establish yourself as a leader in the marketplace, and it's not hard to step up and showcase leadership and become a leader in times of crisis, like during the pandemic. And there's people that failed during that. And there's people that succeeded during that and made a lot of money. And we want to make sure you're prepared because there's patterns to this. [00:06:42] This is how some of the largest companies were built were during like recessions or depressions or time periods where they decided to double down and to focus on growth instead of scale back and be a fearful like everybody else. This is when winners are made. And so we want our clients and those that are close to us and attending, DoorGrow Live to be those that capitalize and succeed in this industry. [00:07:07] Sarah: So I'm not saying that this is definitely going to happen. I'm just saying that there's a pretty good chance that we might be talking about things like some creative ways to structure deals. Maybe some seller finance stuff, maybe some subject 2, maybe looking at your portfolio to see if any of your investors start to panic sell. [00:07:32] If you can capitalize on those opportunities, we might be looking at your profitability. We might be talking about some different business models and growth engines. There's just a chance that those are some of the things that we might talk about, being that we're not releasing the full agenda yet  [00:07:50] Jason: Okay, so yeah, there's gonna be some cool stuff Some of the things we might be talking about is a lot of people have been really curious about how we've been Able to make millions and millions of dollars leveraging Social media, and it's not something I usually want to share because I feel like it's a distraction in a lot of instances, but there are some ways to do this. [00:08:12] That can make you money as a property manager. And so there might be some conversation around some of that and how to leverage AI and some of the tools we use a DoorGrow to collapse time and cost on getting out to all the social media platforms. And so Yeah, there's several other things that we can tease, but it's going to be a really great event. [00:08:32] I think the best part about DoorGrow events that's really different from every other property management conference that I've been around or attended is the type of people that are there. They're just, they're a different crowd. The DoorGrow crowd is a different crowd. These are growth minded people. [00:08:47] These are contribution focused people. These are people that want to make a difference. These are people that are experiencing a different level of mindset, a different level of freedom and fulfillment in their business. These are property managers that actually enjoy what they get to do. This is what we do with clients. [00:09:02] We get them to the point where they're enjoying their day to day. And we've gotten all of the uncomfortable stuff onto other people's shoulders on their teams. And so we're really good at helping our clients get out of the cycle of suck, getting out of the day to day suck of stress and overwhelm. This is not a conference where everybody shows up and they just want to go hang out at the bar and pretend it's a vacation and get wasted. [00:09:25] Right. And if that's you, sorry, if I offended you, go do that. That's if that's what you need.  [00:09:30] Sarah: Do that after the event.  [00:09:31] Jason: Yeah, sure.  [00:09:32] Sarah: Go drink in the water park.  [00:09:33] Jason: Go do that. You can't.  [00:09:35] Sarah: I think there's a bar in there.  [00:09:36] Jason: I don't know. Maybe. But our clients are there to connect. They're there to get to the next level. [00:09:41] They have a growth mindset. And they're there to network. And so the connections made at these events are some of the biggest game changers. People are making friends. And if you want to be part of a community, if you want to come just taste some of the DoorGrow magic in person and see what's DoorGrow about? How is this different? [00:10:00] Why aren't they going to all of these other conferences and doing what everybody else is doing? How are they unique? Come experience it, come see it, and we'll share some things with you. And you'll get to talk to people that are having phenomenal growth. People that are like startups that are adding a hundred doors in like six months, like people that are adding two, 300 doors a year without spending any money on advertising, like this is real stuff that our clients are doing. [00:10:24] And you can come rub shoulders with some amazing people. I think that's the thing about DoorGrow is we, I think are attracting the cream of the crop, the best people in the industry, people with the strongest and healthiest mindset, people that are attracted to growth minded people. If you want to be around growth minded people in this industry that are doing innovative and new things like this is the place to be is DoorGrow Live. [00:10:47] So go to doorgrowlive.Com right now, get your tickets. We do have limited availability. This is not a massive event yet. And we have, we sold out. We've sold out at these events. If you want to get your spot, I recommend get in now because we know what you're going to do. [00:11:05] Sarah: What happens at every event is we always have more people and then they're like, "can we just grab a chair and maybe put it in the back? Like I'll stand in the back. I don't care." And that has happened at the last three of our events where we've had more people try to show up. [00:11:20] Jason: And then you stress out my assistant Mar and  [00:11:24] Sarah: I'm like just grab them a chair take a chair from the lobby I don't care make it happen  [00:11:28] So let's make sure that you have a place at a seat at the table. [00:11:32] Let's do that.  [00:11:33] Jason: Yeah get make sure that you get your tickets early get your tickets soon.  [00:11:38] Sarah: There's early bird tickets on sale right now.  [00:11:40] Jason: Oh, Yeah, so at the time of this recording there are early bird tickets for sale So if you're watching this live right now, or you see this soon There are early bird tickets and the tickets we're not trying to make this some crazy profit center The tickets early bird tickets are what 197? [00:11:57] They're 197  [00:11:59] Sarah: 197!  [00:12:00] Jason: And what does the room cost?  [00:12:02] Sarah: It's probably somewhere around two to three hundred.  [00:12:04] Jason: We're not trying to make this some big expensive thing.  [00:12:06] We probably make $0 off the whole event.  [00:12:10] Sarah: Oh yeah.  [00:12:10] Jason: It costs us a lot of money to put these events on, but for us, it creates community...  [00:12:14] Sarah: It's an investment that we're willing to make so that we can do cool things in the industry and for our clients and for those who are just interested in being better and leveling up their business and their life. [00:12:28] Jason: Okay, cool.  [00:12:28] Sarah: So go to DoorGrow Live, grab your early bird tickets. You can do it after the early bird sale too or wait longer, which I'm cool with. Do it now. If you want the sale do it now. And. You'll get there's a whole section on there with frequently asked questions, all of the information that you need is on there, but if you've got any additional questions, just ping us, reach out to us, you can really reach us just about anywhere and our team will be able to help you and answer your questions. [00:12:55] And then I will also say we still have a few spots. I don't know, exactly how many right now I'll confirm for sure for VIP I want to say there's at least four left right now, and that is tentative, but at three or four, maybe spots left at this point for the VIP. So if you're interested in upgrading to VIP, again, you can do this at doorgrowlive.Com. There's a button that says upgrade to VIP. And if you upgraded VIP then on I think day two, you'll go to lunch. We'll do a little VIP lunch. You'll be able to have lunch with all of the speakers at the event.  [00:13:34] Jason: And us.  [00:13:34] Sarah: And yes, and me and Jason our team is going to be there and you'll get priority seating at the event. [00:13:41] Jason: Cool. Yay. All right. Okay. That's it. Go to doorgrowlive.Com and until next time to our mutual growth. Bye everyone. [00:13:49] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:14:16] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

We all catch ourselves saying, “I just don't have enough time,” especially as a property management business owner.  In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull talk about the excuse of not having enough time and using time more effectively in property management. You'll Learn [01:25] The excuse of not having enough time [05:29] You can buy more time [10:08] Energy management vs. time management [13:23] Doing a time study [16:04] Don't fight your natural energy level Tweetables “It's not actually true to say we don't have time. What we're really saying is, ‘This is not a priority for me right now.'” “Time is a currency you can buy.” “You should not be trading your time for money. If you own a business.” “It's really about energy management, not time management when you're an entrepreneur.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: It's really about energy management, not time management when you're an entrepreneur. It's about managing that currency of energy. And what I find is we have endless amounts of energy if we're doing the things that we love, that we enjoy doing.  [00:00:15] Welcome DoorGrowers, to the DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrower. DoorGrower property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management growth experts, Jason Hull and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow. [00:01:09] Now let's get into the show. All right. So the topic we discussed last night about talking about on the podcast today is time.  [00:01:20] Time excuse. "I don't have enough time." [00:01:23] We hear this a lot. Every day. "I don't have time. I don't have time. I don't have enough time to do this." So we're talking about the time excuse and You know sometimes... we've got this amazing mastermind. Sometimes clients want to cancel. And we have a really low churn rate. We keep clients, so we're usually surprised when somebody wants to cancel. And when we find out and ask why, we got this from one of our mentors, but we now ask the question, "is this a time thing or a money thing?" Which has proven to be really effective because a lot of times it's just a time thing and time is easily solvable. [00:01:59] If it's a money thing, then that's easily solvable too. That's easily solvable too. Just a different route. That's all. So let's talk about time. I've got two clients right now actually that it was a time thing and they're still staying in the program and it's very easy to keep people in the program if it's just a time thing because they're always like, "Oh, we love the program. I just, I don't have time to do all this stuff right now." So what do we say about time?  [00:02:21] Sarah: So this is, I think the thing that I hear the most from property managers. Period. Just, especially in this business is, "Oh my God, I just don't have time for anything. Like I feel like I'm spending my whole day working," and we'll come across clients who are working anywhere from eight to 16 hours a day and that's normal for them. [00:02:45] Jason: Yeah. So it's our job to get them out of that. Yeah.  [00:02:49] Sarah: If you're working eight to 16 hours a day, I'm talking to you.  [00:02:53] Jason: So we have a training that we did once called the priorities training, and it was all about time really. But the reason we called it the priorities training is because saying, "I don't have time," is a very victim sort of phrase. [00:03:05] It's not actually true. You can't legitimately go to any other human being on the planet and say, "I don't have time" when we all are allotted the same number of hours in a day. We've all been given the same amount of currency each day. What's different though, it's not actually true to say we don't have time. [00:03:23] What we're really saying is "this is not a priority for me right now." Or our priorities are just off. So it's really more about priorities. The more honest answer is "I am not making time for this right now because I'm prioritizing something else." And so if you're the type of person that goes around saying, "I don't have time. I don't have time for this," then you are using victim language. This is not effective language if you want to actually be in control of your life. You recognize that you are the creator of your universe, your life, your world. Like you have choice, right? And to walk around saying, "I don't have time" is like putting on the blinders and saying, "the world just takes control of everything I have to do. I have no control of my life," right? You're not a slave. You're not a servant to somebody else. You have control and autonomy over your time. And so you're just making choices. And so the more honest answer would be not to say, "I don't have time," would be to say, "I'm choosing something else right now," right? [00:04:25] Be honest about that. If what you're spending, what you think you should be spending your time on is not really your priority, then maybe you're not really being honest with yourself. Maybe your priority is something else. Maybe your priority right now is family. Maybe your priority right now is another business. [00:04:39] We run into this with clients sometimes, their priority is their brokerage. And they're doing real estate deals. It's not the property management side.  [00:04:45] Sarah: And in the property management side, sometimes their focus is the property management side, but they're prioritizing all the wrong things. [00:04:53] Yeah. They're prioritizing all the little things that the day to day tactical work that has to be done. It has to be done by somebody, but it doesn't probably have to be done by you, right?  [00:05:05] Jason: So what I find is even the two clients that I'm coaching right now helping them get out of this time sort of constraint, they both have assistants, they have team members. [00:05:14] They have an assistant? Yeah, they have assistants. And so what's really funny is that when we say we don't have time and then we are paying other people for their time so that we can have more time, then we're missing something. We're not doing something effective.  [00:05:29] Sarah: Time is a currency you can buy. Yeah. So to say, "Oh I don't have enough time." You have the same amount of time that everybody else has. Some people are just more effective with their time than others, which is why they're able to do so much or do so much so quickly or be so successful. However, with time, that's the beauty of it is you can literally purchase more time. [00:05:50] You can purchase time of another human being. Yeah. To help move your business forward.  [00:05:54] Jason: So one of the concepts that I got from one of my mentors in the past, Alex Charfen, he shared this concept called the five currencies and the five currencies that you have to invest in your own life and in your business are time, energy, focus, cash, and effort. [00:06:11] Now, I believe the most important of those, the scarcest resource of all those is time. We're all going to die. Time is the most significant currency. Time is the most significant currency. It's the most limited. We can do a lot of things to try and have more time and live life a little longer. [00:06:31] But time is a limited currency. The other ones. We can maximize, but we can't generally do a whole lot to maximize time. We can do a lot to shorten it. So we buy time, right? What's crazy to me though, is that when people start working, they don't have a lot, right? When people start into the workforce, the one thing they can sell though is pieces of their life. [00:06:54] They can sell time. So it's pretty wild that I can go out into the marketplace. And I can buy people's time. Like they will pay, like I can give them money and they will give me chunks of their life. They're like, "here you go." As a business owner, we want to get out of the trap of being paid for our time. [00:07:12] We don't want to be paid an hourly wage or being taking care of like hourly. We want to get out of the time trap.  [00:07:20] Sarah: You should not be trading your time for money. If you own a business.  [00:07:24] Jason: Smart business owners are buying people's time with money and not giving their time for money. And so we want to shift that as a business owner and property management is a great business model for that. You can create a lot of leverage. You can build up a lot of doors in your portfolio, and it's not about time. It's not about, Oh I have this many hours. It's all me, right? You can systematize the business. You can get other people to do things for you. [00:07:45] And so we want to. I want to make sure that we make time something enjoyable. And so we've talked about the four reasons before, but we want to make sure you have more fulfillment in the time that you're spending, that you have more freedom, more a sense of autonomy, more a sense of contribution and more support from your team, right? [00:08:06] The four reasons. And then there's a fifth reason of safety and certainty. So we want to get more and more of those as the business progresses and as we grow in the business and as we grow in entrepreneurship. But a lot of business owners end up with less and less time, less and less fulfillment, less and less freedom, less and less of a sense of like of contribution. [00:08:27] And they then burn themselves out even as they build a team. So we want to make sure that we don't do. But what are some of the time excuses or time challenges and then maybe we can talk about how we deal with those briefly and how to get  [00:08:41] Sarah: out of it. I think what's probably. Because there's a gazillion excuses you can come up with, right? [00:08:47] Leases take forever or tenants always call me or what, whatever it is. And every in, in every business, there's always going to be an infinite number of things that can just eat up all of your time. That's how it works in every business. This is how it works. What we need to do though, is really figure out what are the things that I actually enjoy doing and how can I do more of those things? [00:09:08] And then the things that I really hate doing, how can I do less of those things? So how would the time that I have, and if I'm willing to invest, because every minute that you put into your business is an investment. So if you're willing to invest eight hours a day in your business, and if you're working for someone else, it just means you're investing eight hours a day into their business, right? [00:09:31] So you might as well invest in your own. So if you're investing eight hours a day into your business, what can I do in those eight hours a day to really make a difference? And what? In those eight hours a day, can I do that's going to make me happy? Because if you're spending eight hours a day and you hate every minute of it and you're going, "oh my god Is it five o'clock yet? Like I can't wait for this to be over. Is it the weekend yet? Because I can't wait for that to be done," Then you're probably doing the wrong things in your business, and you need to be able to purchase somebody else's time to offload those things that somebody else would actually enjoy doing  [00:10:08] Jason: So it's really about energy management, not time management when you're an entrepreneur. [00:10:13] It's about managing that currency of energy. And what I find is we have endless amounts of energy if we're doing the things that we love, that we enjoy doing. It like gives us energy. Those are our plus signs energetically.  [00:10:26] Sarah: If you're charging our batteries at a party and they just go. The party is done and they're still gabbing away and they're like handing out, whatever and they're like, "oh, let me get your number Oh, let me hook up with you and let me like get-" It's like "guys, wrap up." But there's like that one person who's still going and it's like you have to kick him You're like I don't care where you go. Just don't go here anymore. Go take this elsewhere That's because they really enjoy that. They're like in their element. They're like, "I love talking to people. I love connecting with people. I love networking. I love this. They can do it all day long." Me, I can't do that because I'm much more of an introvert. [00:11:04] So the things that you really enjoy truly will energize you. And you'll find them fun and you want to do them instead of just constantly checking the clock. "What time is it now? How long? Oh, geez. How many more calls do I have to do? Oh, I have to do two hours of calls a day. Ah, crap. All right. Like maybe I can dial real slow."  [00:11:20] Jason: Yeah. And so I think one of the mistakes we make early in the early stages and entrepreneurs, we assume that we need to find people like ourselves. Or we just do because we like ourselves to some degree. But we want to find people that their plus signs are our minus signs, right? [00:11:37] That's where they're a match for us, right? So there are a lot of things that Sarah enjoys that I do not enjoy. He would not. And there's definitely things that are the reverse. right? And you want to find and build a team of people that basically are happy and enjoy your minus signs and are not like you. [00:11:58] Instead of making the assumption, "this sucks, and now I got to find somebody to give this sucky thing to, because I hate maintenance coordination. And now I got to find somebody else that's going to hate it." When you make those assumptions, then you sometimes attract people that are like you and that hate it. But you need to find people that's their plus sign. So we can keep everybody in your team in their plus signs. And if you're not in your plus signs, your team members definitely aren't. It's just really rare that you'll have a business owner that's absolutely miserable, they are holding onto all these hats and things they don't enjoy wearing... so we got to make sure that we move the things off our plate onto people's plates that enjoy it, but you cannot build the right team for you around the wrong person. [00:12:38] You have to be showing up as the right person. You have to constantly be moving towards your plus signs. So how do we get you out of all the minus signs and focus on the plus signs? So these two clients, I've got them doing a two week time study right now. And this is the foundation. [00:12:51] This is the foundation of getting clarity on what things do I enjoy and don't I enjoy because sometimes as entrepreneurs, we just tolerate a lot. It becomes white noise. We just do what we feel like we're supposed to do. " I'm the boss. I have to do sales or I'm the boss. I have to do the accounting" and there's really nothing you have to be doing in the business. [00:13:09] Sarah: And just because you can do it doesn't mean you enjoy doing it. So can you fill all the roles in your business? Yeah. Because at some point it was just you. So of course you can do it, but it doesn't mean that you like doing it.  [00:13:23] Jason: So they're doing their time studies and they got to do it for two weeks because the first week they learn a lot of things. [00:13:27] Like we found three major problems in my coaching call with one of the clients that's been doing his time study already for a week, three major time problems. Like one was he was spending an hour to do something after three o'clock. It was taking him an hour to do something that takes him 10 minutes to do in the morning, right? [00:13:44] So we talked about. His time and how he's becoming less effective at the end of the day because his brain chemicals aren't properly functioning. And then it related to sleep. And so then we were like, "okay, we've got to figure out some hacks for sleep. How do we get the circadian rhythm?" Because he believed his rhythm was messed up because of like working nights previously for a long time. So he had this belief that he was on a schedule. I'm like, "okay we can get your body on a different schedule and affect the circadian rhythm by using light, sunlight in the morning and stuff like this" and some other hacks. So we got into that and that he had two other major issues and he wasn't leveraging his assistant properly. He wasn't doing daily planning. And these are super easy things to install to create a lot more productivity and a lot more space and to actually leverage the team members that this particular client has. [00:14:34] And so the second week of his time study is going to look very different than the first week. Now, the other mistake we make when it comes to time is our team members will say, "I don't have any more time. So when your team members say that, what I find is it's also still a lie, right? And so usually, I'll have my team members do a time study to prove it. [00:14:53] And usually the first time study that a team member does, they magically have 30 percent more time available. Almost always. So it usually takes about two or three time studies before they legitimately need an assistant or some support or you need to hire or get some help or advice, get some software or whatever. [00:15:11] But after you do a time study, a lot of clarity comes out. You're like, "why are you spending four hours doing this?" " This happens and it does this." And you're like, "cool, let's solve that problem." So you'll be able to use your creativity and your innovative mind as to solve problems time wise for your team members. [00:15:27] And this allows you to get a lot more yield from your existing team, rather than just assuming because they're busy that they are productive and they are doing everything that you need them to do and that you need to go hire more people because then you artificially are building out a much more expensive team than you actually need. [00:15:47] It's not based on proof or reality and the evidence or proof that you need an assistant and what you should have your assistant do. And that eventually that. Assistant or team member needs their own assistant is all should be based on time studies should be based on looking at time  [00:16:04] Sarah: You brought up something you touched on it really quickly that I've taught on this on the scale call I think a few times is figuring out what your energy levels are like and don't try to fight your body like literally every body is different. [00:16:19] So some people they're morning people like this one. Some people are not like me. So if you feel really energized in the morning, then utilize that time. And use that time when you feel fresh, when you feel energized, when you feel like, "Hey, I'm like, good to go," use that time to do the most, either the most difficult thing or the thing that's going to take the most amount of brain power. [00:16:46] Or if you're doing something like sales and you feel like you're in your element, do it then. And if you're more like me where I'm more effective in the afternoon, then. Shift those things to the afternoon. But a lot of times people, they go, "Oh, I have to do this. And it's like sales secrets will say that the morning is the best time to do this, so I must do this in the morning." If you're trying to fight with your own body and your own rhythm and how you're feeling, if you're trying to do sales calls and you have low energy and you feel like "I just, I don't want to do this. I feel like I'm either not ready for the day or I'm done for the day." [00:17:24] You're probably doing it at the wrong time. So the tasks that are going to take a lot of brain power. Don't try to force yourself to do them when you have really low energy levels because it will take a lot longer and you're probably going to make a lot of mistakes, whereas otherwise you can just fly through it. [00:17:41] Maybe you know that at least like the back of your hand, it's no problem. But if your energy levels are low or if you're feeling off, then you have to maybe double or triple check some things.  [00:17:51] Jason: You bring up a really good point. These two clients that I'm coaching, we talked about daily planning. [00:17:57] So daily planning is a great way to get more juice from your day and set the intention, but daily planning. I'd like to do the daily planning in the morning because that's when I'm freshest, I have the best ideas. I can think through things. But for some they probably should be doing it in the evening because like they can't go to bed without unloading their brain. [00:18:18] I can just shut down. I just go to sleep. I don't worry about a thing. I can just go to bed. I'm like, it's bedtime. But for a lot of my clients, a lot of other people, maybe you listening, you might not be able to do that. So you might be like, "man, I just keep thinking about all the stuff." And until you get that stuff out of your head and it's on paper where it's safe. [00:18:36] They say the Chinese proverb is the palest ink is stronger than the best memory. When we get it out of our head, it reduces our anxiety and we no longer have to worry that we're going to lose that thing. So I use the notes app on my phone. I put notes all over the place. I just get things out of my head. [00:18:52] So daily planning is a great process to unload everything out of your head. So that you can go to bed and get some good rest. And so for one of the clients, that was what I advised. Do your daily planning in the evenings so that you can go to sleep, get good sleep and wake up in the morning and you already have a plan and you're ready to attack the day. [00:19:10] And then you will know how to leverage your assistant. You'll know how to leverage your team members because you made a plan. And the next step in getting a big to do list is to give it to your team members. So if you have two, three team members, like this client did, then they can give these to their team members, anything that they can so it's not sitting on their plate, eating up headspace and stressing them out, and taking up their day and so then they're able to give up some of that time chunk to somebody else to eat. So cool All right. Anything else we should say about time or this time? Excuse and how to kill these time excuses so that they should be focused on?  [00:19:46] One of the things I ask the clients I'm like, "cool if we create this space if we you are able to give more to your assistants and you free up your time and you've got more time... what are you going to use that time for? How are you going to allocate that? What are you going to do that's going to make the business more money or move you forward or make your life better?" And so I think that's the other thing is we need to have a plan for what are we going to do with our time because we have no incentive to create more space or create more bandwidth or create more time if it's just going to mean we're going to be more miserable, right? So we need to figure out what are we going to use this extra time for? It's just like making money. You need a goal. Like "I'm going to go buy this nice car if I make more money." So it's going to motivate me. You need some sort of motivation. What am I going to do with this extra time? If you enjoy doing sales or growing the business or business development, that might be a really great place to invest that time because then it's going to make you more money and which you can use to buy more freedom. Maybe it's to get a BDM because you don't like doing sales, something like that. [00:20:43] Sarah: So once you free up your time, then you have offloaded a lot of the things you hate, you have some extra time, and now you can decide "what do I actually want to do with that time?" Because if you don't wake up in the morning and go, "what do I want to do with my day today?" Then you may have a time problem. [00:21:00] Jason: All right. So for those of you listening, if you're like, "man, I'm really been in this time trap. Like I've been stuck doing the same default future for the last two or three years. Every January comes around, I'm like, 'I've got big goals.'" And you still are miserable, you're still wearing all the same hats, you haven't really made progress in adding doors. Then it's time to admit you may need some good advice. You may need some extra ideas. You may need some knowledge outside of yourself. And the slowest way to grow your business is to do it all by yourself. It's time to reach out and get some help and we can help you collapse time significantly and that's what it's all about. [00:21:42] That's what coaching is all about is collapsing time, helping you find ways to just shorten the time of learning, the time of making mistakes to learn, the time of figuring things out, like what actually works, what gets results, what helps you outdoors quickly, how do we lower costs? So we want to help you figure that out. [00:22:00] So reach out to us at DoorGrow and go to DoorGrow.com. Until next time, everybody to our mutual growth, bye everyone. [00:22:07] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:22:33] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Join us as we explore the intricate art of keyword research with Jason Mclellan, the mastermind behind Vitacup's impressive $20 million e-commerce achievement. This episode is a great resource for anyone looking to enhance their Amazon selling skills, where we unravel sophisticated strategies to optimize your Amazon product's online presence. With tools like Helium 10, Amazon's Brand Analytics, and Product Opportunity Explorer at our disposal, we dissect the methodologies that lead to keyword research excellence, pinpoint niche markets, and boost your brand's visibility. This is not just another chat about keywords—it's an immersive experience of how big sellers operate their Amazon business. We navigate through the ever-changing landscape of consumer trends, driven by the influence of social media platforms like TikTok, to keep your listings fresh and relevant. Together with Jason, we dissect the strategies that make products rank for the keyword "extra shot coffee" stand out in a crowded space. It's about refining, optimizing, and capturing the essence of what your customer is looking for, turning clicks into conversions, and conversions into Subscribe and Save loyal customers. Wrapping up the conversation, we dive into actionable insights for harnessing the full potential of keyword strategies on Amazon and Walmart. It's about more than just being seen—it's about resonating with your audience. We share how to weave the benefits of your products into descriptions that speak directly to your niche and discuss the significant impact of organic search success on platforms like Amazon. So pour yourself a cup of Rapid Fire Protein Coffee, pull up a chair, and let's unlock the secrets to catapulting your products to the top of the search results.   In episode 540 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Bradley and Jason discuss: 00:00 - Deep Dive Into Advanced Keyword Research 00:50 - Keyword Research Strategies for E-Commerce Sellers  04:44 - Learning From Successful Amazon Sellers  06:45 - Product Research and Optimization Methodology 07:20 - Product Refinement for Increased Sales  14:38 - Identifying Top Search Terms for Niche  20:37 - Understanding Product Placement Strategies 22:57 - Amazon Keyword Strategy for Coffee Products 24:26 - Amazon Seller Keyword Strategies Training 28:56 - Advanced Keyword Research Strategies for Amazon 34:52 - Top Keywords for Platinum Account Success 40:33 - Keyword Research Strategy Discussion 43:02 - Importance of High Search Volume Keywords 44:27 - Optimizing Amazon Listing for Spanish Keywords ► Instagram: instagram.com/serioussellerspodcast ► Free Amazon Seller Chrome Extension: https://h10.me/extension ► Sign Up For Helium 10: https://h10.me/signup  (Use SSP10 To Save 10% For Life) ► Learn How To Sell on Amazon: https://h10.me/ft ► Watch The Podcasts On YouTube: youtube.com/@Helium10/videos Transcript   Bradley Sutton: Today, we're going to have an advanced deep dive into some of the top keyword research strategies for 2024, including some strategies from a seller who does over $20 million on e-commerce per year. How cool is that? Pretty cool, I think. Did you know that just because you have a keyword in your listing, that does not mean that you are automatically guaranteed to be searchable or, as we say, indexed for that keyword? Well, how can you know what you are indexed for and not? You can actually use Helium 10's Index Checker to check any keywords you want. For more information, go to h10.me/indexchecker. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Serious Sellers Podcast by Helium 10. I'm your host, Bradley Sutton and this is the show. It's a completely BS free, unscripted, and unrehearsed, organic conversation about serious strategies for Serious Sellers of any level in the e-commerce world. We're going to be talking today about Keyword Research. And just like last time, I'm not going to have a bunch of slides that I'm going to be showing. Basically, what we want to do is show you real life examples of how we have done keyword research for some of our products, how we would do keyword research in 2024, and not just in Helium 10, but also we're going to be showing you some things for those who have brand registry and are able to access search query performance. Okay, we're going to be showing you some things that even if you don't have brand registry, a way you can find good keywords for your listing using something called product opportunity explore. Now, a couple of things just really quick. I want you guys to bookmark this one page. I want you guys to go to forum.helium10.com. And that is our new Seller Connect Forum where you're going to be able to interact with different helium 10 members in addition to our Facebook groups that we've already had, we're going to have one where it's right inside of Helium 10. Okay. And so we've got some information already there. I posted some blogs, but make sure to bookmark that guys. And I want you to regularly connect. So before we get started into, I want to go ahead and introduce a special guest that we had teased on today, a real live person who is going to show us his products and his keywords and his keyword research too. You know, how many of you Amazon sellers out there, if I ask you in the chat, what is your product? That's how it is. People usually don't want, the majority don't wanna sell their product. Show their product. Today, we don't have that. So Jason, go ahead and come on and let's introduce Jason. He has been on the podcast before, but for those who haven't met you Jason or haven't seen your podcast episode, go ahead and introduce yourself, please, and brief history on Amazon and what company you work for. Jason: Hi, my name is Jason McCallum. I've been with the last five years of the company called VitaCup. We are a vitamin and superfood -infused coffee and tea. We're probably the number one functional coffee on Amazon right now, a wide variety of modalities. So, there's just always keeping us busy between the K -Cup format, instant copy and ground. So I've been in this market space since the early 2000, starting off in eBay. So I've kind of seen the evolution of the place from eBay to Amazon and where we're kind of going in the future with some other things that are developing on other marketplaces. And just... love online marketplaces. Bradley Sutton: All right, so I take his products too. Here's his VitaCup Extra Shot. This is very important for the morning. So I am running a little bit on empty. So we are gonna test this now because I've stayed up most of last night and then this morning, like I said, did back to back webinars. So I am actually taking this product and we are going to go ahead and I'm going to be drinking it live right here. First of all, stir it. Hold on. This is one of my tests for if products are good or not, like how easy it is to open this. How am I supposed to open this there? Oh, look at that. Easy, easy, open, easy, open.   Jason: Much better than the other one you try..   Bradley Sutton: Last year, I didn't like how to open it. It was like impossible. And it's sprayed all over my face. We won't mention it.   Jason: And we're changing it just for you. No one asked for. Just for you. Yeah, Just for you.   Bradley Sutton: All right. So now I'm making my instant coffee and stirring it up. So again, like I said, the reason why I'm just going overboard here in this product is like I said, hey, Jason is somebody who has opened up his product and listings to us before. And although most Amazon sellers don't want to do that, he is doing that. So we thank him. And now Jason, just as you know, you're kind of a humble guy. So people won't, you know it just by the way you talk. But what kind of gross revenue is your, is VitaCup doing on Amazon and Walmart, if you were to combine both of those marketplaces per year about?   Jason: Around 20 million. Bradley Sutton: About 20 million dollars, all right? So, you know, there might be a couple of people here on the call or on this call who do a little bit more, but I would say most of us, including myself, don't, aren't at that level. And that means we can probably learn a thing or two from Jason. Now, Jason does a lot of the same strategies, maybe that are common practice as far as finding new keywords for listings. But he also has got some unique things that he does as well on and off of Helium 10 on and off of Amazon. So I would like to I would like to go ahead and turn the stage a little bit over to you. What is the first keyword research strategy that you are going to help us? Give us the background first. Like, is this something that helps you find a product? Is it something that you already had the product and now you are like, all right, I got to find this, some keywords that are going to convert for me. Set up the stage here for this first one. Jason: So great question. The first thing I'm going to start off with is product opportunity, explore something that's been released for around the last four years. It's been evolving. I really call it at this point, the Swiss army knife of Seller Central. There's a wide variety of uses you can use for it. We look at it and research it for when we're developing new functional blends and flavors. I try and keep my process simple. A lot of people you know the more complex you get, the harder it is. Starting with product opportunity explore, we're researching and launching a new product. It's great to see what the market potential is, what customers like, what they don't like, sort of those keywords that are driving sales can start doing some research on what's the average CPC projected for those. Is it going to be something that we think we can do some conquesting on keywords and how much is it going to cost and is it even worth it? We started hitting over X amount of dollars for keywords. It really is not that viable. So, and then we also use for refinement, and the example I'm going to show right now is we start off in product opportunity explore and we're continually doing improvements and testing new things on our products and just how we go through and find those keywords and then the competing products on it we're going to be using. We'll use the extra shot coffee as example and then Bradley Sutton: What do you mean by refinement? Jason: Because we're continually refining your content and your images and we utilize the data to improve our images, which improves your conversion and increases your sales dramatically at this point, you got to consider 70, 80% of all Amazon shopping today is done via mobile experience. Your hero and your secondary images are actually more important than your product description, your bullet points and your A plus content at this point because of how everything's delivered. I mean, if everyone has their phone there, you can pull it out and at some point you can get ready by the cup, extra shot K Cups and we can take a look at that as we're going through and why. And so we're utilizing the keywords. We're pulling a product opportunity explorer and the keywords we're pulling in refinement. We're pulling out of Cerebro and we're directly addressing the data that we learned from that into our images, not just our bullet points, not just our titles, and because of that we're seeing a great conversion like extra shot. We just ran this through where we've seen it wasn't one of our stronger performing products, but we've seen in the last 30 days we've seen basically doubling the sales on that my lead, my number one product. In my rolling 30 day sales average over the last two weeks I'm up 16% on sales because we applied the same methodology. You continually have to be updating content. New words enter the ecosystem, Amazon new consumer trends are going on. TikTok drives a lot of different trends depending on the categories you're in, and that introduces a lot of search relevancy. People see things on TikTok or other social media forums. and they come to Amazon looking for it and necessarily you're not just trying to compete for your own space, but when these new trends come on board, sometimes that product isn't there and Amazon will see for those terms that your product is really relevant. And if you've been running for a while and you have some relevancy, you'll start getting delivery. And if you have sharp titles, bullet points and images, your conversion will be great and you'll continue to grow and accumulate on these new trends that are just kind of ancillary to what you're doing. So we see a lot of growth in that. So we're always just in a constant rotation of just testing out all content, all aspects, and then kind of refining and judging, through catalog performance, what your different points in the chain through click through to purchase, conversion, our improvements being made.   Bradley Sutton: Now, a lot of your sales comes from subscribing, save and maybe certain things like sponsor display ads and a lot of other ways. Now, have you ever looked at search career performance for a week and looked at your brand's overall search career performance attributed sales, which is very limited? As far as hey, it has to be from a search, it can't be sponsored brand or sponsor display ad. They have to have clicked it, they have to have purchased it within 24 hours. Have you ever compared the amount of sales for a week that came through search career performance with your overall unit sales to see, like, hey, how much of your keywords or how much of your sales are coming from the normalized searches, which for some people it's 15%, some people it's 50%, some people more.   Jason: You know I haven't broken it down that more when I generally start, because where I generally start to look at what branded searches and everything is what we're running off Amazon. Amazon, there's no like. Amazon actually is great, but if you use it for a while you understand that it's not capturing the full thing. Or if you're just doing, especially doing stuff on TikTok, it's not capturing hardly any of it. So I track by week, by month on branded searches to see if there's any spikes in overall, like wide a cup searched terms, and then we can start to correlate. And if there's a spike in sales we can start correlating. It is what we're running off traffic to educate the consumer about a particular blend or a particular product. Is that having a positive impact in customers coming back and searching for it? Because, as you're saying, like you know, we're running a lot of DSP, we're on search display and so we have all these lovers we're pulling. So we want consumers to touch our page, because we want to get them in the flow, because we want to acquire a new customer and move them to subscribe and save, and that's the way you kind of take the approach on it. So first one is is you're finding the niche in which your product exists, and so mine is looking at extra shot. I know it's already strong coffee. You can search by ASIN and the ASIN will generally allow you to select it. So you pin your product ASIN and sometimes there's enough affiliation. Where it can drive up. So two niches under strong coffee is for the K-Cups and the high caffeine coffee. I've already been through both these. The keywords are kind of similar. We're selling in a K-Cup format so I wanted to focus on that one Initially. You kind of can see the total search volume over the last three, 60 days, kind of how the product niche has been growing, the estimated unit sales on an annualized basis. What we're starting to see more and more is really kind of interesting. Is this return rate percentage. So for other, this is a consumable item and you're not technically supposed to be even be able to return it, so it's always going to be pretty low. But if you're looking at researching products that you're going to potentially get into, you can say, hey, does this statistically have a very high return rate, or does it have very low return rate? Because you're going to want to build that into your business model for the product. It gives the price range and then the kind of that sweet spot, the average price. So you know, from a pricing point of view, when you're thinking about pricing it, where do you fall in line? So we're going to select strong coffee K-Cups and then just there's such. They keep adding a wealth of information to this. What you're going to see on the first tab for products is all the ASINs that make up 90% of the volume that are associated with this strong coffee K-Cups. The second portion is the search term. These are going to be your top search terms for the niche. So this is where you can come up with a search term. So you can come up with a search term, your top search terms for the niche. So this is where you can kind of start getting an understanding of 90% of the volume that has been driven by the volume that's being driven by 90% of the search terms. So I tend to look at, what are the search terms that are non branded? so definitely, which I'd kind of ignore. But you know high caffeine, coffee, K-Cups. So everyone remember that term high caffeine, coffee, K-Cups, strong coffee K-Cups, extra caffeine coffee K-Cups, double caffeine coffee K-Cups, and then you start seeing some variations. So we've got strong coffee pods search less than strong coffee K-Cups, but still has relevancy. So you know that when people are coming to search they're not always necessarily searching for K-Cups, but they're also searching for coffee pods in some form or another High caffeine K-Cups, double caffeine K-Cups and etc. Also, it's really interesting as you can use this as a tool to monitor how you're performing within a product niche. So for this instance, if you're interested in going after high caffeine coffee K-Cups, this need. All the niches are updated once a week, so over time you can start seeing am I making headway into being one of the number one top click product on it, which is Deathwish, the number two, which is a variety pack of high caffeine coffee pods, or the number three clicked on is Wake the Hell Up, dark Roast. Keep that in mind. Like these are your top keywords. This is where I start with. I get my top keywords and then I'll eventually be going over Cerebro to find out what are those medium to low end keywords, and you're also gonna see these. The beauty of Cerebro is when we run the top three, our product with the top two products in it, we're gonna see a lot of the same keywords. It's gonna give a lot of validity. This real data that we're getting out of Amazon live, from the source, is being mirrored what's coming out of Cerebro, and so it's giving validity to Helium 10's authenticity, to those lower and mid keywords. You can then trust the data that, hey, for long tail keywords, I'm gonna grab these and build them into the text. For just some organic ranking. I wanna run some long tail keyword strategies on my Amazon PPC. I wanna build some of this content into my images. The next thing I go through and I look for keywords customer sentiment is on Customer Review Insights. This is amazing. So what it does, it takes all these products and starts aggregating that. We're on the product page. It starts aggregating the reviews together and looks for themes and looks for what consumers want. So the first one is aggregated haste. We can start seeing what customers are saying, and I love when I see things like just delicious, or the coffee is delicious. That tells me when we're communicating to the end consumer, we have to be communicating in the text, in the imagery, in the bullet points, in the A plus content that it's gonna be a delicious cup of coffee, so talks about flavor quality and we start smooth, so we start stripping this information out and that's what we're gonna use to help build. So in Cerebro what I do is I take my product extra shot plus two or three of the leading ASINs and I run it in Cerebro to get my top keywords.   Bradley Sutton: And for those who aren't familiar with Cerebro, what this is doing is it's pulling up all the keywords where, in the last 30 days, any of these three products have shown up in the organic search results. They have shown up in sponsored search results or that, according to the Amazon algorithm, it suggests is relevant for the keywords, regardless if it's in organic or ranking. And so you know there's what? Oh my goodness, 24,000. 24,000.   Jason: So we don't want yeah, that's pretty Two of the keywords. So, honestly, one of my favorite like filters is just the quick top keywords filter that's built into Cerebro, this, you know it at down to 83 filtered keywords. I do a little bit more refinement. I wanna exclude phrases like death, death wish, black rifle, pistachio and wake. For what I'm trying to do, regardless. This bumps it down to 59. So, and we'll search by search volume, things that are gonna be important we have a shot of espresso in our, so the espresso K cups, that's a great one. Blackout coffee I'm still trying to figure out how do you work out blackout within the text, cause blackout is a branded term, so utilizing it within blackout coffee Same as danger coffee. You're picking up a lot of these things, but then you start seeing like hey, strong coffee, k cups, high caffeine coffee, dark magic I know dark roast is really important to this, so that dark magic is a blend and so on. So you know, I'll go through and I'll delete out the ones that I don't like from this. I'll pull these out and I'll start using both these sets of data, to start building out what this should look like in as far as new content for both imagery and bullet points, and I-.   Bradley Sutton: Now one cool thing. You know you might not have been looking at it, but just in this sense, guys, they're the column on. You guys see on the very right hand side, a match type. This also kind of shows you where if we have seen one of these products doing other placements. You know I said that Cerebro's showing keywords where you have shown up in organic results and sponsor results, but it's not just those two. If they're coming up in one of those widgets that says Amazon recommended, if you see something that says SBV, that means a Sponsored Brand video. So now you can know where your competitors are advertising in the video sections. Maybe the Sponsored Brand ad at the top, maybe if it comes up in highly recommended. So these are other ways where you can kind of look for holes in the market on the keyword side. So right now Jason just showed us two ways. Hey, look at Product Opportunity Explorer. Look at which products are dominating the niche. Remember, like he said, Product Opportunity Explorer isn't the products that make up 90% of the clicks and also the keywords that make up 90% of the clicks of that market. Here he can round out his strategy, using Cerebro to find other keywords that maybe aren't part of that Product Opportunity Explorer niche, but the competitors are probably getting some sales here or there. Do you have anything else for us today, Jason?   Jason: Yeah, I could run through how we're using manager experiments, where we popped it in that we're running experiment now on this board.   Bradley Sutton: Oh yeah, why don't you show that to close things out, and then I'm gonna show some more strategies and then maybe we'll bring it back here for some Q&A.   Jason: Right now we do take that details and we're running on through manager experiments and anyone who is brand registry has the ability to access and manage experiments and you can run A-B testing on titles, bullet points, A plus content and images. So right now we're running one for title and bullet points. As you can see, I totally just deconstructed my listing for this so you'll notice I've started to put in high caffeine coffee pods. Espresso shot. Through some other research I saw not just espresso but espresso shot was very important. Dark roast, strong coffee, espresso powder once again because powder it's a little bit different. People could have used espresso shot and espresso powder, but I saw, just because we had that included in it, there was actually some relevant high volume search relevancy on it. And then you start lacing some of these key words into your introduction double caffeine, strong, smooth and robust. We picked up on strong, smooth and robust dark roast all in like flavor profiles through product opportunity explorer. Customers were specifically using these keywords, so why not use them? They identify with them. It has meaning for them. Then we always have like a functional benefit to our. So we talk about our vitamin B12, there's a sub niche called healthy coffee that we dominate. So I always like layering in healthy coffee, and then we talk about our pods. All this is going to be baked in. It's going to start as we start driving advertising more and more focused on it, on these keywords. We're doubling down to try and gain organic relevancy. Amazon will pick on it, our AI will pick up on it, and this is kind of the process we use.   Bradley Sutton: Love it. All right, Jason, thank you so much for sharing that. I want it. Instead of just being like, oh, this is going to be a Helium 10 training where just Helium 10 employees are showing stuff, I want to show, hey, Jason is a real live Amazon seller with a real live product, and these are the strategies that he's using to get ahead. You don't just randomly achieve the success of making 20 million a year on Amazon and Walmart without some solid keyword strategies, and those are some of the things that he has. Now I want to show you guys some common and some also maybe off the wall keyword research strategies in the next 10 minutes and then we'll open it up for Q&A. One of the things I want to show you and this I mentioned before some things you have to have a brand registry for the first thing that Jason was talking about Product Opportunity Explore. You don't need brand registry for the thing that he showed about how to use the experiments with his manager experiments and showing the alternate kinds of titles and bullet points that had different keywords in it. You need brand registry for that. This next one I'm going to show you also requires brand registry and it's because it's utilizing brand analytics. Now I could do this inside of Amazon, but it's much easier to do it inside of Helium 10, because I can search multiple weeks a lot faster. So let me go ahead and share my screen and while he was talking I just loaded up that search for one of the keywords yeah, strong coffee K cups. So I'm just going to take and look at VitaCup. Right here at the very top is advertising. Let's say I'm not VitaCup and I'm just going to copy him and copy his ASIN, and I want to go ahead and see where he is, has been ranking or one of the top three clicked. All right, now. What I want everybody to do is, right now, go into Black Box inside of Helium 10. And then, if you have a Diamond account, all right. I don't think it is available for Platinum just yet, hit this new tool called ABA top search terms. ABA stands for Amazon Brand Analytics and I'm going to be pasting in a few ASIN. So let's go ahead and put that ASIN in here. Did I copy it? I must not have copied it. Oh, there, it is. Okay, I pasted it and let's go ahead and take in the red alert coffee. This guy is selling about a thousand units a month and maybe a couple more ASIN'S here. Death wish, he was mentioning death wish, or there we got three ASIN's from the top ones. All right, so now what I can do is I'm going to look, let's just say, going to February 4 to February 10. I'm going to hit apply filters and now what is going to come up is where any one of these products was one of the top three clicked products for that keyword. Now, not that many keywords came up, only 17, because I only put in three. But imagine I could have put here maybe 20 or 30 products and then for any week or any month I can say hey, show me where these are these products. At least one of them was one of the top three clicked and I could say I want to see the ones where at least maybe one ASIN had more than 1% of the conversions, meaning that there's got to be some conversions on there and theoretically, all keywords said have that, but there might be some like lower level keywords that have no conversion. Sure enough, there was one, because now there's only 16 keywords left here. But look at this I am now looking at any keyword where at least one of these products is one of the top three clicked, and I could start going in deep here and seeing all right, what is the history of how this product, who are the top three clicked? Like, for example, look at this one protein coffee K cups. All right, protein coffee k cups is not a branded term, and so I'm looking at the Search Volume All right, 735. This is not that much search volume. Is this something that's newer or is it trending? I personally have not seen this keyword before and I'm looking at the last year on Amazon and I could see that, hey, it's actually gone up from like in the 200s and 300s and slowly it's on the rise. So, right off the bat, you know this is not some crazy amazing keyword 735 searches but it's on the upper trending. You know I'm probably one of the ones who's trying to search for out because I'm looking for like hey, is it? Is there a chance to get some protein when I'm drinking coffee, you know? So I would keep looking at this keyword. Now I'm like all right, well, who has been some of the ones who are converting for this keyword? So I click the total click share chart in Helium 10 for the keyword. And now, if I'm looking on a month to month basis, I just put my mouse over and I could see who are the top three clicked products and are they similar to my product? Right, like, for example, look at here in the month of December, VitaCup Keto Coffee Pods was the top the sick, the third most clicked product. Now who is dominating, though? The rapid fire protein coffee. Right, they've got protein in their title of their product, so it's no doubt that somebody searching this is actually a great example. I completely just by chance, found this is a perfect example of keyword research and how it's important and how it actually kind of like will give you an idea about who's going to be one of the best products here. Think of somebody who is actually typing in protein coffee, k cups. All right, I look at the search results and I see all three of these products this Corelatte one, the VitaCup Keto one and the Rapid Fire Protein one. But just the fact that in their title and the name it just so happens to be the name of the product is protein coffee, it's going to get them a lot more clicks. And then, look at that. I don't have to guess if it did or not. Look, amazon is telling me this product got 28% of the clicks right and total makes total sense. The VitaCup one is just a keto. One might give some protein but it only got 6% of the click. It's still top three. But you can understand now all of a sudden why this product is dominating. So that means if I really wanted to dominate this product I might have to think I can just make up protein and say, oh yeah, my product is. You know, this extra shot. VitaCup is a protein coffee. If it's not a protein coffee, that's false advertising, right. But if I'm developing a product I really got to take that in consideration. Now this is how Keyword Research ties in even to your product development. Right, I've got to think about putting that keyword in my title if I want a chance at kind of like busting into this rapid fire proteins market share here. I can also see the history here on the right hand side about how organic and sponsored rank ties in to being one of the top three clicked. For example, this protein coffee in December, in January, in November, they, for this keyword, were not running any sponsored ads. Nowadays, you know, somebody might think you know you got to be running, you got to be having a high bid on this, on any keyword that you want to have a big sales, but for whatever reason, this protein coffee comes like nah, I'm good, I don't need to do sponsored after this keyword because I'm dominating without it right Now. What about VitaCup? VitaCup here in December. This is pretty cool, guys. All right, this is exactly why combining Helium 10 data with Amazon data is so cool. VitaCup was one of the top three clicked ASIN's, right. The number one clicked ASIN was this protein coffee. Rapid Fire All these brands are really great, right,Rapid Fire. And then you're looking oh, no wonder they're the top click ASIN. They were Organic Rank one. Now, if you were just looking on Cerebro, right, and you saw our Keyword Tracker and you saw that VitaCup Genius Coffee was ranked 12th, you might think, oh, there's no way it's one of the top three clicked because it's kind of like towards the middle of page one. But this is one of the top three clicked and you don't have to wonder why or how. Look at the sponsored rank average. So in December of this month, this variation family was showing up on average right there on the top. So you see how, in some situations, organic rank is all is all that's needed, but if VitaCup was relying on their organic rank only to get clicks for this keyword, would they be one of the top three clicked? Absolutely not, because their organic rank is all the way down here, but they were able to be one of the top three clicked because of their high sponsored rank. So this is, guys, this is like not your grandfather's keyword research strategy we're talking about today. This is like next, next, next level, where you're going into seeing who are the top click to try and like, understand, buy your intent, and then now you're reverse engineering the strategy with how these different companies were able to dominate this keyword. For this company, it's a matter of hey, they named this product after this keyword. It's in their title, right there at the beginning. They're able to dominate this. For VitaCup, it's completely opposite. Their path to being one of the top three clicked was through sponsored ads. So for every product there's always going to be different strategies, but this is the once you guys are experienced sellers, this is kind of the level of keyword research you need to do. It's not just hey, let me throw in an ASIN and a group of ASINs in a Cerebro. You obviously have to do that, exactly what Jason showed and find those 24,000 keywords and then whittle that down into what are the most important ones. But you also need to take a step farther and start using Product Opportunity Explorer and the Brand Analytics Data to kind of understand, well, what are companies doing after they find that keyword and how are they getting their sales. So that's Brand Analytics. For anybody that has the Diamond plan, I highly recommend it. Now let's say you're on the newer side and you just have a Platinum account, which is totally fine. What is the easiest way to get the top keywords? Let me just show that. Let's go back to that page that's Coffin shelves. Where are we at More Coffin shelves? Where's my coffee one? Here we go, all right. So I'm going to choose the top products on this page that I just want to go ahead and measure my success and my keywords versus them. Or maybe I'm just I don't have my own coffee product yet and I want to know what are the top products here. And, by the way, you can still see there's VitaCup still right there with their Genius Cup right there as one of the top three sponsored ranks, and this is kind of cool. I bet that Jason is actually spending slightly less than Deathwish Coffee and what is his wake the hell up Dark Roast, but he's probably getting a very similar click-through rate. You don't have to be position one or two on sponsored to be one of the top clicked or sponsored Dial back that spend, be the number three or number four and you'll still get almost the same kind of click-through rate and clicks. Let's go ahead and hit Red Alert. I got the Deathwish and I don't want to do Pete's. Let's do community coffee, right. And then what I'm going to do is I'm going to hit run Cerebro. Now this is going to open up in Cerebro, kind of like just what he showed. Now I wasn't paying attention to. If these products are all pods and if they're definitely competitors I'm assuming they are. But you guys need to really take a closer look at who you are putting into Cerebro and make sure that you're doing very similar competitors or that, like Jason was talking about, you're pulling it from Product Opportunity Explorer and you know by definition they're in the same niche. But I just picked four random ones just from the search results, but within seconds here, or a minute or so, I'm going to be able to get where all of these keywords or all of these products, the keywords that they are ranking for and that they're doing sponsored ads. The very first thing that I'm going to do once this shows up is I'm going to hit the button top keyword right here, top keywords so everybody can do this anytime they run Cerebro, and basically what it's doing is it's like hey, where are most of these keywords are ranking for, or most of these products ranking for on these keywords very highly? And look at that. I came up with 24 keywords and a lot of these are branded. But, just like Jason showed, there's a lot of non-branded keywords here as well, like, for example, high caffeine coffee cake. I'm almost positive. He literally found that in Product Opportunity Explorer and I guess randomly guys, this is the first time I've ever searched these things in my life. It just shows how Helium 10 is validated by the Amazon data. That exact keyword that he found is showing up right here Strong coffee. There's the other keyword that he found that came up right here Protein coffee K cups. That's the keyword that I had found just on my own that I put up here. So these are the top keywords. Another thing, though I like to do, this obviously, is going to just show tons and tons of branded ones. I like hitting this button Opportunity Keywords, because, instead of looking at the products or the keywords that everybody is ranking highly for, this button allows me to see, in seconds, products where only one or two of these competitors are ranking high and, by definition, of course, the majority of those are going to be branded. But every now and then I'm going to be able to see unique keywords that other competitors might not be able to see, they might not be paying attention to. Like here, instead of k cups, here's a keyword that I didn't realize. Some people are typing in kpods. Now why did this kpods keyword come up here? Let's take a look at the Relative Rank here. All right, perfect, look at this. I don't know who is who, but look at this Of these top competitors. Let's say these guys are all kind of equal, competing with each other. Do you see where everybody is ranked here on this page? One of them is 78, one is 107, 241, 245. There is only one of these competitors getting sales from this keyword cake pods with no spaces, and they're ranked on page one, position 12. What does that mean? That means that if I were to kind of like, do a campaign on this keyword. It potentially could be easier for me to rank for this because I'm not having to go up against all of my main competitors. So that's why this button, guys, is a sleeping giant of a button right here. Opportunity keywords let's see if we can find any of the hidden gems in here that aren't branded keywords. Let's take a look here: Coffee pod, bulk k cups. Maybe some of these products think, well, we're not really bulk so we don't think we should put that in our listing. But there are some people, for one of these products at least, where they are heavily ranked for bulk k cups, even though they're not really a bulk and they're actually getting sales from it. So this is just another way to get some keywords that can help you. I want to give you guys some deep dive strategy sessions on keyword research. To kind of round out your on Amazon and off Amazon, your on Helium 10 and off Helium 10 strategy. So let me go pull up those episodes right now. We did a three-part keyword research series on Helium 10 a few months ago. That really is going to help you, in about three hours of time, get all of the keyword research tips that you need. So you guys got a pen handy, write this down. And the way you can find this is everybody, go ahead and pull out your phone. If you have an iPhone, type in podcast and open up the podcast app. Or Spotify if you have a Spotify and type in Serious Sellers Podcast, all right, type in serious sellers podcast, and then go ahead and hit subscribe. And then the ones I want you guys to look at are these three episodes here keyword research masterclass 100% free, doesn't it? And you don't have to be a Helium 10 member to listen to these. All right. Episode 506, 507, and 508. All right, so again, go to the podcast, Serious Sellers Podcast. Type in episode 506, 507, and 508. If you guys are more visual, it's h10.me/506 , h10.me/507, and h10.me/508 . If you go to those links you'll go to a page where you can actually even see the video too of it. But either way, subscribe to the podcast and go to those episodes and maybe next time you're on your treadmill or you're taking a drive or a run, listen to those and then go back later to the video to kind of like have the overview. But what Jason gave and what I gave are maybe only like six or seven different research strategies. We have over 33 in those videos that will help round out your knowledge, and not everything is Helium 10. Half of them just have to do with Seller Central. Liz says I'm a newbie to Helium 10. I want to know where to start. All right, the podcast is a great way to start. If you don't have your first product yet, product research is what you want to get into. I would go and go into Blackbox and look at hit the Learn button, Liz, and watch all the videos there. And definitely, if you're brand new to Amazon altogether, don't even go there first. Go into the Freedom Ticket, go into the Learning Hub. At the very top of your Helium 10 dashboard you'll see a button called Learning Hub or Freedom Ticket. Hit that and start going through the training there. That'll give you a good way to start. So, Jason, are you looking at what's more important that, a high search volume or not a high search volume, a trending up search volume, kind of like that protein K Cup, or a keyword that already has like 3000 searches? Compared to that one only had 700 and thus has a lot more sales. Which one is more important for you?   Jason: It depends. So let's if we take protein. We actually released a protein coffee slim protein coffee back in December. That's because of the AI and the way Amazon runs broad and other campaigns, it started picking up on that search term. So it started delivering on Genius. Genius gets delivered on every new search term that gets in. It's trying to find relevancy just beyond what other one product you're carrying. So we developed slim protein coffee because we saw a high search increase on protein coffee in general, which was a trend off Amazon as well. So but I also have baked into our slim protein coffee high search terms such as instant coffee and some other ones. So it's kind of a mixture of both. I always like high search term keywords built into titles and bullet points because it's going to bake in some organic relevancy that it's gonna be cheaper for me to try and build long-term. That it is versus advertising on.   Bradley Sutton: Okay, excellent. Does Amazon auto translate keywords from different languages? One of my organic ranked keywords is Spanish, but I never added to my listening Great question, and the answer is yes. So in America and different countries, it's different languages. In America, Spanish is the main second language that Amazon is on, and if you turn your Amazon browser into Spanish, it automatically translate your listening and then those keywords a lot of them you are already indexed for, and so sometimes, if it doesn't, I highly recommend looking for organic keywords that you're ranking for, and then what you might have to do is adjust your listing optimization, because the Amazon auto translator sometimes doesn't use the exact phrases, and so you might not be that relevant to the Amazon algorithm, even though you're indexed for it. So definitely look at what are the top Spanish keywords and then, if your translation is not good, talk to Amazon and see if you can get your translation updated with better keywords. Jason, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate the extra shot I had today, and thanks to everybody for joining us today. Hope you guys enjoyed this session. We'll see you guys next time. Bye-bye now. I'll see you guys next time.  

Tax season is upon us. Every property management business owner knows the struggle of trying to navigate IRS regulations each year and find the best outcome. In this episode, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull sit down with Mo Hussein with Balanced Asset Solutions. You'll Learn [02:05] Talking tax code and regulations [10:02] Why you need an accounting tool/software [18:38] Reducing your tax liability [23:21] Writing off education costs [26:24] A few more tips for the road Tweetables “The experts are worth a lot more to me than software.” “You're going to pay for everything in business, whether it's going to be in time or in cash.” “If a handyman shows up with only a multi tool instead of a toolbox to do a job, the property manager is probably not going to call that guy back.” “There's certainly a wrong way to do taxes, but there isn't a right way or one way to submit your taxes.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Mo: I think what's most important is having a single source of accounting truth I think that's probably what one of the biggest things that a lot of businesses struggle with, especially when it comes to tax season.  [00:00:10] Jason: Welcome doorGrowers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others impact lives, and you are interested in growing a business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrower. DoorGrower property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not, because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners, and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts property management, growth experts, Jason Hall and Sarah Hall, the owners of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show. All right.  [00:01:08] And today we have Mo Hussain back on the show. What's up Mo? [00:01:12] Mo: Hey, doing well. Pleasure to be here.  [00:01:15] Jason: So we're going to be chatting a bit about tax strategies today. Yes. All right, cool. So let's dig into this. This is something that is near and dear to Sarah's heart, which is super weird.  [00:01:25] Sarah: I hate paying taxes. Fun fact, I don't want to give more of my money away if I don't have to. [00:01:31] Jason: I know if I see something on Instagram about a tax strategy, I should just send it to her and she'll find it interesting. Like she just gets into this stuff. So Mo, what do you got for us today?  [00:01:42] Mo: Yeah. Sarah, you are definitely probably the first person I've come across that has actually made a comment that you actually love going through this entire process. [00:01:50] Taxes is one of those things that, there's a saying, there's two things guaranteed in life, death and taxes.  [00:01:55] Jason: And I'm trying to avoid both. So how do we avoid some of the tax?  [00:01:59] Mo: I don't know if we can help with the death part. Maybe over time.  [00:02:01] Jason: We'll probably all be somewhat avoid some of the death maybe. [00:02:05] Mo: Unfortunately, the tax code is very thick. It's honestly created an entire industry of professionals like myself and other CPA firms that are specifically just dedicated to decoding it and maximizing savings with our clients and with taxpayers in general, there's, there's a litany of information that's on the IRS website. [00:02:22] It's very difficult to parse through and and there's also consistent changes that are happening each year. I think probably the biggest changes that are happening this year that a lot of property managers are being impacted by is the new 1099 filings and the IRS portal. Prior to 2023, you'd be able to file your 1099s via paper as of 2023 now, for any filers that are filing more than 10 returns, those have to be filed electronically on the IRS has created the iris. The IRS has created this new portal called the IRIS and allows for you to be able to submit your 1099s electronically. And there's some changes that have happened between the fire system that a lot of folks were using before and the new IRIS system, of course, making things more and more, more, more complex as usual. [00:03:07] Jason: Got it. Why would they make anything easy? Yeah, it's definitely not the goal to be audited next year. Now, it seems when it comes to tax strategies, you've got every everything ranging from across the spectrum from risky, maybe not even actually viable strategies all the way to really safe and conservative. [00:03:31] And some will save you a lot more on taxes on the risky side, going towards more conservative. How do you balance this?  [00:03:39] Mo: Good question. Medium. Good question. The interesting thing is although our CPA firm will file taxes on behalf of our clients. And there'll be another CPA firm maybe the client was working with before that filed taxes the year before. And maybe even though the deductions or maybe other things haven't changed significantly the return and the actual filing and the composition of it is different. And but it doesn't necessarily mean 1 way to do it is wrong than another way. There's a lot of different strategies, especially when it comes to things like depreciating assets and taking advantage, for example, of a bonus depreciation. [00:04:12] And just give you some context, bonus depreciation was a tax incentive that was enacted by Congress and in 2002 and it basically allows for accelerated business tax deduction on a large asset over an accelerated period of time versus over the duration or the lifetime of the actual asset. [00:04:30] Real estate is a great example of that. In 2023, you have bonus depreciation of up to 80 percent that can be taken advantage of, and then it drops to 60 percent in 2024, 40.25%, 26%, and 0% thereafter. However, a lot of these deductions, you may not want to take advantage of depending on where your revenues are at, so you can actually minimize your tax liability. [00:04:53] And so there's a lot of strategy around in different ways that a tax account or CPA will file your tax. And so that's where we see the variation what you mentioned about risky. There's certainly a wrong way to do taxes, but there isn't a right way or 1 way to submit your taxes. [00:05:09] And that's why you see a lot of different tax accounts and CPAs have different ways and strategies of submitting their clients' taxes.  [00:05:15] Jason: Okay. All right. What are some things that property managers should be paying attention to this time of year here at year end? Yeah. Max this out. [00:05:24] Mo: Yeah. All right. One thing that we always urge our clients is the tax season shouldn't be an annual kind of activity or flurry at the end of the year, but a lot of folks wind up doing is nobody really thinks about taxes until after the new year and it's February and you're looking at March and April when the tax deadline is due for both your business and your personal taxes. [00:05:44] And honestly, that isn't the best time that you should be thinking about it. You should be thinking about it throughout the duration of the year. You should have some accounting system that's keeping track of all your expenses with the path act that got enacted in 2015, real estate agents and brokers have some additional relief when it comes to business related purchases that got that made changes to the IRS section I believe 179 deduction. And for example. In the tax year 2023, you can expense or write off up to $28,900 of the price of a new car for the tax year in which you bought it another certain limits of the type of vehicle that qualifies for this tax break. However, these limits are part of allowable deductions. [00:06:21] And if you're thinking about your taxes throughout the year, certain decisions that you'll make about acquisitions or things that you may be purchasing for the business may make a material impact at the end of the year on kind of your tax implications. And it's important to keep a log of all your receipts, expenses and everything throughout the year. [00:06:37] A lot of times when clients wait until February to start putting together all the prep work and the receipts and everything for their expenses, a lot of times you'll miss things and we always suggest you should take your time and file an accurate return. Versus just trying to be beat the deadline and not get hit with a potential fine you have in April when the taxes are due, but you can always file for an extension. And if there is a tax liability that's assessed, there will be interest that will be accrued during that period of time. But again, it's better to be accurate and maximize your deductions versus being in a hurry. [00:07:08] Sarah: Got it. Are there any deductions or obvious tech strategies that you would recommend for property managers or real estate agents in general?  [00:07:18] Mo: Yeah great question. Some of the most common types of deductions for agents and brokers and property managers are marketing expenses, such as sales, open house signs, flyers, web development, business cards, mailers. [00:07:31] If you're leveraging a service, like DoorGrow, just consider real estate coaching and training. Those are considered education cost. Licensing and renewal fees. Things like association dues for MLSes, brokerage desk fees, any type of transportation kind of expenses, whether it be automobile maintenance or repairs, gas, mileage, travel, home office expenses, and even gifts, although there is a limit on gifts of a 25 dollar deduction for per client per year, and so there's a lot of different things that you can deduct. And a lot of times what happens is, you may be a broker or a property manager that's going to show a property and you need to go buy some flyers or handful flyers or something like there's some type of piece of marketing collateral. [00:08:13] And so you may go to FedEx and just use your credit card. And although at the time, it's registering in your head, that may be something that you forget to enter into the accounting system later. And so you're not leveraging that and as an actual viable business deduction. [00:08:26] And so this is why it's important that you're logging kind of your accounting activity and have a easy system to use something to use that's on the go as well. So you can easily kind of catalog and log these expenses. All these minor costs add up over time. And, you need to make accounts so you can maximize your deductions here. [00:08:43] Okay.  [00:08:43] Jason: What do you think is the easiest system to use?  [00:08:46] Mo: To stay away from words of easiest system or things like that, because it's very subjective, right? It's, we're all creatures of kind of habit. And some folks are tethered to their phones and are okay with using a litany of different applications. [00:08:57] A lot of our clients will use kind of QuickBooks for their management system, and for their to manage the kind of their corporate books, there is a mobile app can easily log things as you're going. You can connect that directly to your bank account and your credit card. And so as transactions occur, you can make sure that those are logged correctly. [00:09:13] I would say that, having a system that has an integration to whatever banking and credit cards that you're using and reconciling that account on a monthly basis to ensure that you're logging all the transaction. And then also keep in mind in scenarios where you're paying out of pocket for something or loaning something to the business, even though you may be the sole owner and want to take advantage of those. [00:09:33] There's a lot of different pieces of software that are out there that can help with that. We usually suggest for clients is, if you're already using some type of a property management and accounting system to manage your business, let's say Appfolio, there is a way to also manage your corporate books. [00:09:45] A lot of these property based accounting systems also have the ability to manage your corporate books. And it's not only specifically for real estate. They're an accounting system at the end of the day. And you can just create kind of things like a fictitious property labeled your corporate business and run all your financials and keep track of your finances that way. [00:10:02] Sarah: Now would be a really good time to send a reminder to property managers that your property management software is probably not the best software to do your internal accounting. So a lot of times clients are like, "Oh yeah, I have software for that. I use Rent Manager or Appfolio or Buildium. And that's fantastic to manage your client's accounts, but it's not the best system to like internally manage your accounting, it's not going to have the same functionality as something like QuickBooks would.  [00:10:36] Jason: But you're saying some that's what they do. [00:10:39] They use a lot. That's what they do.  [00:10:41] Mo: What I'm saying is that so these accounting systems. So the main difference. So if you think about something like a QuickBooks, it's a general accounting system. So it's meant for any business. The chart of accounts is very malleable, if you will, something like property based accounting system there is no such thing as like a business. There's a property, there's tenants, there's owners, there's vendors. Now, you can finagle or manipulate and come up with work around so that you can manage your books there. However, you'll have kind of an entire different chart of accounts for your corporate business, which would be different than, what shows up on the financial owners. [00:11:13] And so there's a trade off. You can use another system that's maybe tailored specifically to your business, like a QuickBooks and you have the flexibility of things like integrating credit cards and stuff, which is a nuance when you come to property based accounting systems. But then you have to manage 2 different platforms, or you can figure out some work arounds and try to manage and keep track of your financials in 1 of these property based accounting systems. [00:11:35] But then have to keep in mind about some of these work arounds, like reconciling, like a credit card, which isn't the same thing as reconciling like a bank account. But. So there are trade offs. But I think what's most important is, what we say having a single source of accounting truth I think that's probably what one of the biggest things that a lot of businesses struggle with, especially when it comes to tax season. Is that. " Oh, I have a bunch of receipts and stuff that are in my inbox. I have some screenshots on my iPhone. I have, this random Google Drive folder with other information. I need to call Sally, who's my, maintenance supervisor or whatever about some other transactions and stuff," and there isn't a single place of accounting truth. And having that will definitely save a lot of time, especially when it comes to prep.  [00:12:15] Jason: I would think that grown up property managers are probably at least using something like QuickBooks because at some point they really should be on the NARPM standard accounting, standard of accounting chart of accounts. There's just some advantages. [00:12:29] Especially if they're wanting to exit that business someday, having clean books that are not commingled with your client's stuff inside Appfolio, for example, would make your business a lot more appealing and you'd probably fetch a prettier penny.  [00:12:44] Sarah: And I think a lot of times people think, "Oh this is an accounting software because it does all of the accounting for my clients." [00:12:50] And there are differences for sure between how your PM software and how something like QuickBooks doesn't have to be QuickBooks, but we use QuickBooks. I like it and I can use it and I don't like technology. So something like QuickBooks functions, there are differences. And the other thing to keep in mind is if you have a team and your team has access to your property management software and you're putting all of your bookkeeping and accounting and financial data in there, your team has access to it and you may or may not want that. Some people might be very open and they have an open books policy and they don't care at all. [00:13:30] Some people, they hear that idea and they go, "there is no way I would do that." So if you're one of these people who's using your property management software as your own internal accounting system, you might want to think about doing that maybe a little differently.  [00:13:44] Jason: I think this is where there's a challenge in business and in this industry that a lot of business owners don't recognize the differentiator between all these systems that you need in order to run a business. [00:13:55] You definitely need something like Property Ware, Appfolio, Buildium and Rent Manager, Rent Vine, whatever as a back office. And as a billing system as the main system for getting paid basically, and then you need an accounting and financial system. And those are different, the accounting and financial system, you need a system for how to manage money, how to do finances. So for example, Profit First is a nice baby step for a lot of businesses that are just getting started and have Frankenstein accounting as Mike Michalowicz calls it, and then you need a sales CRM system, which is usually very different than the CRM, which they're calling their back office where it's focused on bringing clients into the business. They're like "I have a CRM. It's Appfolio." And it's not the same thing. And and then there's several other systems that you need in a business process system, planning systems, et cetera. [00:14:47] When people start to think that they have a one system, they're like "I've got Appfolio, so I've got every system I need." This is where they struggle then to be able to scale their business because they don't have the knowledge, the insights and the transparency that they would need in order to get to the next level. [00:15:03] And they don't have the right tool to do all these other jobs. It's not the Swiss army knife. And what's funny is I sometimes equate this to the little multi tool that a handyman might have on his belt. If a handyman shows up with only a multi tool instead of a toolbox to do a job, the property manager is probably not going to call that guy back. [00:15:23] "Oh yeah, I've got a hammer. It's right here." It's not the same. It's not the same. So same thing in business. You can't just run it off of one system. There's no magic one system. Everybody has to build a stack of tools. I'm sure in your business, you have a stack of tools that use as well. [00:15:37] You don't have just one system, right?  [00:15:39] Mo: That's right. It's all about using the best tool using the best tool to get the job done. That's an example that you mentioned about the handyman. At least when it comes to business, it's a huge cost when it comes with time and you're going to pay for everything in business, whether it's going to be in time or in cash. And where you take shortcuts on investing in certain systems, you're going to pay for it in the amount of additional time it's going to take for work arounds and manual things and processes, which is also brings up another point that we always stress to our clients is always consistently read like evaluating the business and your processes and the tooling that's being used so that you can constantly as we say, evolve forward. [00:16:15] Jason: Yeah, it's interesting. I had a mentor and he taught me this concept he called the five currencies. And basically there's five currencies you have to invest in life and in business. And it's time, energy, focus, cash, and effort. And what's funny is there's you get early on stage entrepreneurs that I think are trying to just avoid cash. [00:16:35] They're like, "I want to be cheap. I want to not spend money." And these are the ones that struggle to grow the most because they don't understand that their money is something that you can renew and earn. But time, as far as our life goes, is the scarcest resource. And what's really crazy to me is that our team members, we're buying their life. We're buying chunks of their time. They're trading time of their life for money. And they're trading probably the cheapest commodity for the best, or the trade and the best commodity for the easiest to get it seems like, but that's where they're at. And so as entrepreneurs, our goal is to move beyond just giving up our time and to get money. [00:17:16] And, we can invest more effort. We can invest more focus. We can limit the stuff we're focused on to grow faster, but in business, same thing with these tools, if we think we are saving money by only using one tool, we've got our crappy multi tool instead of building the ultimate stack, [00:17:36] then usually they just end up spending more on payroll. There's having to buy more time to do less stuff. And get less stuff done. So technology is a lot cheaper than people. That's I'm sure everyone listening realizes that, but.  [00:17:49] Mo: Yeah, there's a difference in business when you're looking at things from the lens of a perspective of an expense, versus looking at the total cost of ownership for a particular solution or process or something like that. [00:18:02] And and and in that regard, you can actually, assess the amount of time that's wasted and there's always going to be some opportunity cost. You are a business owner, nobody gets into real estate because they want to do accounting or because they want to work on taxes and whatnot. [00:18:16] And so there are professionals out there who's, sole service and focus and business models is focused on that. And and that's not something that's going to differentiate you from your competition. So those things that are not going to differentiate you, those are the things you should be outsourcing and the things that you should be seeking help to take off your plate. [00:18:31] So you can focus on the things that actually drive your business forward. And allow for you to be able to grow your portfolio.  [00:18:37] Sarah: Yeah, for sure. All right. Now I know this won't be the same for everyone because taxes is this crazy like mishmash of information and what works for you might not work for me and vice versa. Knowing that there's no one size fits all here. We're not shopping like off the rack. This is all tailored. What are some strategies that property managers should at least look into? Now, it might not make sense for everybody, but what are some things that they should at least look into and see "hey, does this make sense for me to implement this? I love learning right? So I love learning especially like how I can save money on taxes. So what are some ways that they can look into and see if it's right for them?  [00:19:18] Mo: Reducing their tax liability Yeah, no, great question. . Of the biggest nuances are just things in accounting is that, there's no such thing as being a creative accountant, right? There's always a right way to do things. [00:19:27] But there isn't just one right way to structure your business. And so one thing that we see a lot of clients struggle with is, they'll create a business initially, most folks don't start off in property management or they're either doing, they either own a brokerage firm or they're an agent and whatnot and they're doing actual real estate sales. [00:19:45] And then they'll try to, get into property management and maybe they have also they're doing in house maintenance and whatnot and maybe like a leasing only service and and maybe they also have assets on the side that they own themselves. And one common-  [00:19:56] Sarah: yeah. They're like, "I do all of these things." [00:19:59] Mo: I do all of these things, but they're doing it all under one entity. And so it's " hey, you should have a separate entity and LLC. There are liability reasons or mitigation for liability that you want to do this. And also, there are some potential tax benefits you can have an actual main corporation and you can have a sub entity or an LLC." That's your brokerage business. A separate LLC, that's the property management business. A separate LLC, that's the leasing only business. Separate LLC, that's the maintenance only business. And that, for example, that corporation can tax each of those sub LLCs, like a licensing cost, just to be able to actually use the name. [00:20:32] Of course, it may be the same ownership structure, but that's a potential way of of having a tax savings. A great example is you have the largest Companies like Apple and Nike and stuff like that, they have separate entities that are outside the US that tax licensing fees, just to use like the check mark with the entity that exists, that's actually transacting with the customers. [00:20:49] And then the other benefit of having all these entities that are separated out is that if you ever want to have a portion of the business that you wanna sell, you can demonstrate what the profitability, the profit and loss looks for that business. And you can have a separate valuation metric for that particular business and spin it off, especially if you have assets of your own, you want to have that in a separate entity, because you'll be able to take advantage of bonus depreciation. And that bonus depreciation essentially allows for you to be able to, take a rental property and take an immediate 1st year kind of deduction. If it's in 2023, you can start at 80 percent and whatever the bottom net losses on that particular asset, or that particular business that owns that asset that can now be offset the excess income. That's liable to taxes to offset against another entity. And so there's some strategies around that. There's also ways to be able to loan a particular asset or for example, if you have a car, you can rent it out to 1 of the entities, even though it may be the same individual that's using it. [00:21:49] There's a way to structure your taxes so that. Even if you own the property, you can technically lease it to 1 of the other entities and that can be a business expense and write off against another against 1 of your other entities. And so there's a lot of kind of small things like that that can make a material difference when collectively put together. But what it will ultimately we suggested something that we don't see too much. And usually we see a lot of clients struggling with is rather than having all your different enterprises and your sales activities, just revenue generating activities wrapped up into 1 entity to separate them out based on business lines. [00:22:22] And this also gives you as an owner perspective on what is working, what is not what needs help and attention and things that sort of be a little bit more prescriptive and data driven and how you make those decisions.  [00:22:32] Sarah: Like that. For sure. Yeah. And then it's. Different P and L's to see, "Hey, what part is actually profitable here and what part, if any, is taking a loss. Where does my attention actually need to be? Because what makes me the most money?" Instead of going "I think this looks pretty good."  [00:22:47] Jason: Things get mixed up. People make bad decisions. It's funny. Just for example, we'll get somebody that says, "oh yeah, I'm getting plenty of leads" and they're spending thousands of dollars on internet marketing. [00:22:57] And I'm like, cool. And they justify it. But I say, "where are you getting the leads from?" The majority were word of mouth. And so you're spending a bunch of money and I'm like, "cool, let's separate this out. What's your acquisition costs on ones you can attribute to the internet marketing stuff you're doing? [00:23:11] And sometimes they're like, "Oh yeah, it's 3- 400 a unit to like, to get on a client." And I'm like, that's ridiculous. And then they're like, "cool. I'll sign up for DoorGrow." I'm curious about the education costs and here at the end of the year, how do we help people justify signing up with DoorGrow leveraging education costs and getting that tax deduction? [00:23:33] Sarah: Such a good question because that's R and D! Research and development.  [00:23:36] Mo: Yeah, it is. It is. Yeah. Real estate coaching training and education costs is considered an expense. It can be considered a deductible expense at the end of the day, especially a lot of the insight and kind of value that you guys add to the community is something that I think is priceless. [00:23:52] And if it's going to make a material impact to clients, bottom line, the thing is that none of us can be experts in everything. And so kinda the reality in business is you can learn in two ways. You can either learn from somebody else's mistakes or learnings, or you can learn the hard way yourself. [00:24:05] The latter is going to take more time, which you're not going to get back. And so the folks that are able to accelerate and grow their business, take advantage of like coaching and training and educational type of costs, I would say, "how do you justify that expense?" At the end of the year, if you're going to have an excess of income, that's going to be tax liable. And in these educational costs, and so you might as well invest instead of giving that money to Uncle Sam, give it to Uncle Jason and find a way to maximize and grow that kind of that ROI. I would say that's probably something that a lot of novice kind of entrepreneurs don't probably put too much emphasis on when they're 1st, embarking on their entrepreneurial journey it's just the importance and significance of education and insight, especially from those that have blazed the path before you, or have exposure to a lot of other folks that are in your same shoes.  [00:24:49] Jason: It really is probably one of my greatest secrets in how we've scaled and built DoorGrow and the success we've had is once I finally stopped being the idiot that thought they could do everything and watch all the videos on YouTube and read books and figure it out myself. [00:25:05] I started to collapse time significantly when I got coaches and mentors and we shell out a lot of money to coaches and mentors and I've got some amazing ones right now, like really amazing coaches and mentors. And what it does is, yes, I'm spending more money, but I'm decreasing time. So it's collapsing time for me significantly. [00:25:24] I'm making a lot less mistakes. I'm not having to figure it out because every stage of business, you're stepping into the dark. And it's nice if somebody has already been there before you 'cause they're not in the dark about it. So they're like, "Oh yeah, just do this and do this. I've already tried that and that, and it doesn't work." And I was like, that's what I was going to do. And the same thing, the majority of the people that come to me are like, "I'm having trouble growing my business." And I'm like, "cool. What do you, what have you been trying? Or what are you planning to do at the startup stage?" [00:25:50] They're like, "I'm going to do internet marketing and SEO, pay per click," they're going to do everything. All the biggest companies that they're competing with are already spending way more money than them doing it. And they're just going to do it worse. And that's their strategy. "I'm going to do what the big companies are doing, but worse. And I'm going to try and charge less money. I'll be cheaper. And I will somehow provide better service." And I'm like, "good luck with that." And so we don't know what we don't know. And we make mistakes at each stage. And the secret to collapsing time is to spend money and invest in yourself. You get that back. [00:26:21] There's a big ROI. All right. Thanks for helping us sell door. I appreciate it.  [00:26:24] Sarah: All right. So if you're looking for tax write offs at the end of the year, sign up with DoorGrow, we can help. Yeah. Don't give your money to the government.  [00:26:31] Jason: And then we'll help you make more money. Nobody stays with us unless we're helping them make more money. [00:26:36] Sarah: Yeah, they haven't helped me yet.  [00:26:38] Jason: Taxes are not giving you an ROI.  [00:26:39] Sarah: Next year when we audited them, they're like..  [00:26:42] Mo: Another thing that I wanted to comment on, actually, a lot of people may not be aware of is between the COVID period of time, there's a Biden had released this this new initiative to be able to give back payable taxes. [00:26:53] And so if you had full time employees, between 2020 and 2021, I think it's up to $25,000 for each employee for each year, and that you can potentially be entitled to up to that amount. And so if you had full time employees, and that's free money, that's not free money. Technically, those are Payroll taxes that your organization already paid, but the government is literally just give it back to you as part of this initiative. [00:27:16] I'll take my payroll taxes back. That sounds great. The only requirement is that you had, you kept people on full time payroll during the 2020, 2021 year. And that those folks were with you for at least a year. And that those were actual W2 employees, not 1099.  [00:27:31] Jason: Okay. That's worth talking about it. [00:27:34] Oh, she's up on all this.  [00:27:37] Sarah: I don't know. Did you think I would have missed that? Okay. I'm telling you, I'm like-  [00:27:43] Jason: She has some strange hobbies. Alright. I do, I know. Mo this has been really interesting. I appreciate you coming and hanging out on the show. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your company and how you can help people with some of this stuff if they're listening to all this going, "man, this is a bunch of gobbledygook I really could use help making this all make sense, and I thought Appfolio was an accounting system for my business" and they're just trying to figure it all out. How can they get ahold of you?  [00:28:07] Mo: Great question. Before I comment on that, one, one thing that I do want to the misconception of Hey, just because you bought accounting software doesn't mean you bought accounting experts. [00:28:14] Sarah: Okay. Oh, that's so good. I love, I'm going to use that.  [00:28:18] Jason: The experts are worth a lot more to me than software.  [00:28:22] Mo: And usually there'll be priced a lot higher too, because the software, the proper application of it, it's like buying, It's like buying a seesaw or hammer or some tool, it's much cheaper to actually buy the tool versus buying or having the expert that's actually going to be utilizing the tool to build whatever. The peace of mind to me is priceless. So it is. I lead a group, a consulting group balance asset solutions been over for a little bit over 7 years. We are a CPA and technology advisory firm assisting clients with accounting, CFO services, like taxes, acquisition, disposition strategy, software implementations we're partners with a lot of the accounting systems like Yardi, and Appfolio, and Propertyware, and Buildium. We also help with Department of Real Estate audits and forensic accounting customer reporting, fund management. We're here to help maximize the value out of your subscription, streamline your business with technology and software, and give you time back to spend on the things that matter to your business, which is growing kind of your top line and working with your tenants and owners. We have clients in over 35 states and we have deep expertise when it comes to the trust accounting gap, the department of real estate compliance representation. So consultations are free and you can find us online at www. balancedassetsolutions. com.  [00:29:33] Jason: Man, that's an awesome combo, nerdy accountants. [00:29:36] That's like the best combo ever, right? All right. Super cool. All right. So hopefully some people are reaching out to you right now when they're watching this and we appreciate you coming on the show.  [00:29:46] Mo: Of course. Thank you so much, Jason. Take care.  [00:29:48] Jason: All right. Take care. If you are a property management entrepreneur, you're wanting to grow your business, reach out to us at DoorGrow. [00:29:54] We would love to help you out. You can check us out at doorgrow.Com and join our free Facebook group at doorgrowclub.Com. Bye everyone. [00:30:00] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:30:26] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

One of the biggest questions we get from property management business owners once they start building out their team is “How do I compensate and recognize my team members?” In this episode, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the different kinds of compensation structures for different personality types and roles on your team. You'll Learn [02:15] The difference between you and your team [07:56] The problem with giving out percentages [12:13] How to set up commission structures [21:23] Recognizing your team effectively [25:44] Giving out raises and job titles Tweetables “Business is a more effective vehicle than even a charity at creating lasting and impactful change.” “When you dangle the carrot in front of a great salesperson, they will jump off a freaking cliff to get it.” “Your discomfort in giving somebody a raise should be equal to their discomfort in asking for it.” “Recognition costs nothing.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: They need to be invested in like committed to helping you grow this business and helping you move it forward, otherwise they are just dead weight and you're creating a bigger and bigger monster of dead weight as the business grows.  [00:00:14] Welcome DoorGrowers to the DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently then you are a DoorGrower. [00:00:31] DoorGrower property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management, business owners. And their businesses, we want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We are your hosts, property management, growth experts, Jason Hull and Sarah Hull, owners of DoorGrow. [00:01:11] That good? Now let's get into the show. All right. We were trying to change the intro right before we did it. And sometimes she's not on it. Sometimes she is. She's mostly on it now. So. Anyway, here we are. So our topic today, I'm getting a lot of questions, a lot of questions, and this has been going on for a long time, but we're getting a lot of questions about compensation. [00:01:37] This just keeps coming up and we see a lot of mistakes when it comes to compensation. So the challenge with compensation is that entrepreneurs think differently than most people that they are paying, and so they make mistakes in how they compensate people because they think it's going to help them get more of what they want and they actually create the opposite. [00:02:00] And so I want you to pay close attention to this today. If you watch this you should not ever ask if you should be giving out a commission or percent sign to somebody or whatever So let's talk about a couple of things here. So where should we start?  [00:02:15] Sarah: Well, I think the best place to start is probably from just for background. [00:02:20] What is the difference between someone who has a sales mindset or entrepreneurial mindset versus someone that may not.  [00:02:30] Jason: Cool. Let's talk about that. The two types of team members that you're going to have. There's two types of people on the planet, those that like money and those that don't. And I know you're thinking, "man, no, everybody likes money." [00:02:42] And you'd be surprised. And so if you had all of your team members take a DISC assessment, there's usually on a nice DISC assessment, a section called the values index. And one of those values is the economic or financial score. And so on the economic or financial score, what you will see is that the score is low, then they don't like money. [00:03:04] And I know that sounds weird. They're not focused on money. They're not trying to get money. Money is not a big part of their psyche. It's just not. And I know entrepreneurs, you don't get this because you like money. Sarah and I do not hate money. We don't hate money. Okay,  [00:03:20] Sarah: I need that shirt. This is the one t shirt. [00:03:22] I'll wear the capitalistic pig shirt  [00:03:24] Jason: Right and so we don't hate money. You probably don't hate money either. If you do hate money and you're an entrepreneur Then you are probably struggling to have money, right. Money is the ability to change lives, make a difference and have impact. This is why business is a more effective vehicle than even a charity at creating lasting and impactful change in my opinion. [00:03:47] Okay? Because it has healthy motivators connected to it. Right. And money is the energy and currency of what everything moves through to happen. Right. So let's talk about this. So if the economic score is low, what does that mean? I'll tell you whose economic score is high. If your economic score is high, you are probably an entrepreneur or a sales person, right? [00:04:11] Those are probably the only two personality types or people that you should be paying out more money or bonuses or commissions to incentivize better behavior. That means most people, you should not be paying bonuses, additional financial compensation to try and motivate or change behavior. Now, if you just want to be generous and it's Christmas, that's different. [00:04:36] But if you're trying to consistently compensate somebody and motivate them, the motivators need to be connected to what your outcomes are and most people are doing it incorrectly. Now, if the economic score is low, this is what this means, they would rather what they most value is recognition. They would rather be recognized. [00:04:55] And recognition costs nothing. It costs nothing. And if you don't give them recognition, but you give them bonuses, it's often the opposite, it has the opposite effect. There's another values index called the charitable score. If they have a high charitable score, which means they might want to volunteer to soup kitchen. [00:05:14] They want to like donate money. They want to give money away, not get money. They want to give money away. And then they have a low end economic score. That means if you pay them more money than what is comfortable for them. You pay them more than that. They will start to become a worse team member. They will start to self sabotage because they feel guilty. And then they're going to project that and externalize it because they have to justify it. They're taking more money. They don't want to give up the more money, but they feel guilty. If Sarah was my boss, it'd be like, "Oh, Sarah's giving me more money. Well, all right. I have to be worth this. So I'm worth this more money. And you know what? I'm entitled now. And maybe I deserve even more because I'm developing this kind of cancerous blind spot of I deserve this money because I feel guilty. So I externalize it. And I blame that uncomfortable feeling on my boss. Oh, well, my boss is like terrible and doesn't do this stuff. So I deserve that more money to compensate for it." And so they start to find fault with the boss and they start to justify them taking this more money cause they feel bad so that they can feel somewhat okay about it. And then their behavior starts to show that and they start to perform worse. [00:06:23] I know entrepreneurs, you're like, "that makes no sense." But that's how a lot of people think. Most people do not enjoy seeking money. This is not their goal.  [00:06:33] Sarah: There is a caveat team members, they have to have enough to be comfortable, right?  [00:06:38] Jason: If they're starving, broke or hurting, they're not comfortable.  [00:06:42] Sarah: In pain or like worried, like, "Oh my God, I might lose my house or I can't feed my kids." [00:06:47] Like. Yeah. We're not saying, Hey, like give them no money, they'll work for free. That's not the case at all. Right. They have to have enough to feel comfortable to make sure that their needs are met and make sure that they're able to provide for themselves and anyone else or anything else that is important to them. [00:07:02] Once they reach that level though, and I think studies have been done on this, which is really interesting to me I don't know if they just surveyed Americans. Don't know, but I think $75k was like that magic number or $65k. It was something like that somewhere in that ballpark is that's like where people feel like they have most people feel like they have enough. [00:07:25] So once they feel like they have enough money to live and be okay and make sure their needs are met and bills are paid and things are taken care of and like Johnny can do soccer and whatever they, you know, they want to do, they don't then go, "well, now I want a hundred and now I want 200." They don't keep trying to climb that ladder. [00:07:46] Once they feel comfortable and they have to make sure that their needs are met, then they're not interested. So if you take it from 75 to a hundred, they're like, "it's okay."  [00:07:55] Jason: Okay. So the other piece to this, another challenge that I see is that because business owners want people to have skin in the game and they want them to, they think everybody wants money, they hand out percent signs. [00:08:08] This is one of the most dangerous things to hand out. We even made a silly video called, what's it called?  [00:08:13] Sarah: I think it's called Percentage Breaks the Property Manager for the Property Management Business.  [00:08:19] Jason: Yeah. So you can check that out on YouTube. But the idea we're playing this, these roles and I'm a business owner and I don't have money in the beginning, so I'm going to pay her a percentage of all the doors that I get in. [00:08:29] We made it ridiculous, like 50%. Right? Which means if you're handing out a percent sign, and we see this all the time, say Sarah's my employee and I'm the boss, and I hand out 50% or whatever to a property manager.  [00:08:42] Sarah: Or even if you're like, "okay, here have 30," because like even 10, 30, 40, I still, I see the that a lot. [00:08:48] Sometimes I see 20.  [00:08:50] Jason: It doesn't matter what the percentage is, right? The challenge is in a business, some property management companies don't even make 10 percent profit margin. And so handing out percent signs is really dangerous for businesses. So what they'll do is hand out a percent sign. So let's say I give her 50%. [00:09:06] That means my 50%. My, the other half, all of the expenses have to come out of that. And usually if a business has 50 percent profit margin, that's pure expense. So then I'm broke. So what happens is she's making more and more money because she has all upside. It's pure profit. And I have all the expenses do not give a percentage to a broker. [00:09:28] Pay them a flat fee of like five, 600 bucks. Do not pay a percentage of broker. If you don't have your broker's license, don't create relationships or situations where you are giving up a percentage to a property manager. "Hey, you get like 50 percent of each door that you get on when you get a 30 percent of each door," whatever, right? [00:09:46] Because then what happens is these property managers, if they're the personality type of handling property management, instead of doing sales, they are not going to be focused on getting more business on. They're going to be focused on just helping run the business and you're giving them more and more money the more doors you get, which means you're making less and less money, right? They're making more and more money, the more doors that you get. And they will get more and more lazy and more and more comfortable because there's no incentive for them to go work harder or hunt or chase to get money. You need to make sure if you're handing out a percent sign in any capacity, that's like giving out ownership of the business and they need to be invested in like committed to helping you grow this business and helping you move it forward, otherwise they are just dead weight and you're creating a bigger and bigger monster of dead weight as the business grows. This is why a lot of people join a franchise and then regret it later on because they're paying out six to eight percent, which is a lot, of their gross revenue not of profit not of what's left over for you. And some business owners. [00:10:56] That's their whole owner payout. Yeah, that's like top one. Some business owners, that's what they take out like you're giving away that to basically to a team member that's not really adding value. I could go on and on about franchises. You can check out my YouTube video about franchises. [00:11:12] I'm obviously like not a fan of the franchise model because I believe it hurts the entire industry. There he said it. All right. So don't hand out percent signs. Do not get into a relationship with a business partner and give them a percent sign unless they are the type that wants to hustle and grow and make money. [00:11:33] The challenge is I see a lot of business partnerships are like, "here's a percent sign" when they should have just said, "here's your salary. You can be the operator." So operator personality types, for example, systems, process, whatever, they don't usually want ownership. They're not often that entrepreneurial type. [00:11:51] They just want to make sure they're getting paid enough and taking care of enough. Now there's exceptions to this, right? But you don't want to be handing out percent signs to somebody unless it's like super critical for growth. And I do not recommend. I recommend in any way possible, don't hand out any percent signs to anybody ever except to yourself and maybe a salesperson. [00:12:13] Now, let's talk about commissions, right? Let's say somebody is money motivated and they can help you make more money. So if they're money motivated, then you need to be using them to help you make more money. If you're going to pay them a percent sign, but you're not going to pay them a percent sign residually. [00:12:30] Because then you're motivating them to not do more work. What you want from a good salesperson or a BDM, a business development manager, or a BD business development person. What you want from them is what? You want results, which is more doors. You want them to add more money to the business. That's the result you want. [00:12:49] So you're going to pay for them to get more business, not keeping the business because keeping the business is the rest of the team. And that's fulfillment. So don't pay them a percentage residual. You pay them a percentage of maybe the first month or the, like some sort of commission upfront. [00:13:07] And it could be a percent, or it could just be a flat fee. Like, "Hey, we'll give you 200 bucks or 300 bucks or 500 bucks or per unit that you bring on." and give them an incentive. So that means they have an incentive every month. They stay to hunt and to chase. Now, another mistake people make with salespeople is like, "I want to get a salesperson, but I want to have zero downside and I want all the upsides. [00:13:33] So they create another unfair structure where they're like, I will pay you pure commission. And if you don't hunt and kill, you starve. And if you hunt and kill, I make money and we both make money." so I need to address this. That only makes sense if you are giving the salesperson, all of the leads, they have a great follow up and nurture system, and all they do is show up to calls and close.  [00:13:56] Sarah: Now, can you clarify what giving them the leads means? Because you're like, "Oh here's the leads. Like, here's a list of 10, 000 people."  [00:14:04] Jason: Okay. That's not what I mean.  [00:14:05] Sarah: So yeah, exactly. So let's clarify that.  [00:14:09] Jason: Okay.  [00:14:09] Sarah: So 18, 000 people in my CRM. Here's your leads. [00:14:13] Jason: If somebody is going to be paid pure commission, which means they're just paid for basically closing deals, they should not have to go find potential clients. They should not have to be hunting for potential clients. They shouldn't be spending any time doing any of that stuff. They should just be taking appointments, somebody else scheduled for them and closing deals. [00:14:33] Then they're a closer. Everything that happens before that would be handled by a setter and the setter would be cold calling, following up, like all this stuff. Setting appointments. Setting appointments, rescheduling.  [00:14:46] Sarah: Making sure people show up. They don't show up. Right. Calling them again.  [00:14:49] Jason: Feeding the closer. [00:14:51] Feeding the closer. Then the closer can be peer commissioned and the setter would be paid a base, mostly a base, plus a small percentage for each like appointment they set or some sort of results. So they're motivated to get more results and they should be a little bit money motivated, right? Now, most people are going to hire a BDM and expect them to do both. [00:15:11] And if you're going to hire a BDM and expect them to do both, you need to pay them a base. I would recommend at least maybe 20 to 30 K, something like this of a base that covers their setting activities. And then they, the rest, they should be able to make somewhere annually about maybe six figures should be possible. [00:15:30] So work it backwards, but there should be a commission structure that if they're adding 10 to 20 doors a month, they should be able to make. Some sort of six figure sort of salary would be the goal. So figure out a commission on top of that base. Because what you're doing, if you say it's pure commission, you're expecting a closer who lives or dies by whether they hunt or kill and create some money, you're expecting them to starve for at least two months, usually. Because usually three. Because it takes about 90 days to build up a sales pipeline. So they're going to have to do networking and prospecting and outreach and they're working for free and. If they're starving for 90 days, they're just going to quit. [00:16:10] I've seen so many BDMs burn out and it sounds like this great model. "Well, I'll pay you basically nothing in the beginning." And you might get somebody to agree to do that, but they might be stupid if they're willing to do that. And then they're going to be like starving and not figuring it out. And then you don't give them a good system. [00:16:26] If you plug them in to DoorGrow, we can get them making a lot of money. We have an amazing system. Like we had a client in just 10 to 15 hours. We go from zero to a hundred doors in six months. And he didn't spend any money on ads and he was a solopreneur. He was all by himself. This is absolutely possible. [00:16:44] We can help BDMs crush it. We've helped some BDMs add two- three hundred dollars in a year. That's absolutely possible to do but they need to be able to dedicate their time to that and you are not going to get that kind of result if you just pay them a commission because they will only focus on the closing type of activities or the commission generating activities, and they won't do what the leading activities that actually generates the opportunities to close. [00:17:12] And so you're putting too much attention on the wrong thing. They need more attention. Most of the attention should be on the leading activities. Phone calls, outreach, networking that leads to this and then deals will happen. They don't even have to be super amazing at closing if they're doing enough leading activities And so we want to make sure we give them a base and then we give them an incentive to move those things forward.  [00:17:35] Sarah: Okay. Now with the base, this is the big one. "Well, how much is the base supposed to be Jason? I don't know?" [00:17:41] Jason: 20 or 30 K. Maybe  [00:17:42] Sarah: You need to find an amount that would be uncomfortable if that's all you made. It needs to be comfortable enough that if that's all they made, they're not going to be starving and eating out of a dumpster. [00:17:58] And it needs to be uncomfortable enough that if that's all they made, they wouldn't be happy and they would be hungry for more.  [00:18:06] Jason: They need to be hungry. They got to be motivated. It's financial compensation is all about motivation, right?  [00:18:13] Sarah: With a salesperson, when you lay out their commission structure and you let them know like, "Hey, this is your base and I'm giving you this base because of these reasons. I don't want you to be starving. I want you to be motivated. The real money, it's over here. This other piece, I'm going to give it to you because there's things like phone calls and settings and appointments and you know, all the stupid crap that you don't want to do, but that you will do because it leads to deals." [00:18:38] And they're like "yeah, I get that. But the real money is over here. So when you close deals, that's when you start to make money." And when you dangle the carrot in front of a great salesperson, they will jump off a freaking cliff to get it. The problem is if you just give them the carrot and you're like, here, have a 50, 000 base, have 100, 000 base, have a 200, 000 base. [00:19:03] They're like "Yeah. I don't need to work that hard. I mean, if I do nothing, I still make 50k." We just at the boardroom event, we had a client whose BDM has a 50, 000 base.  [00:19:13] Jason: And then he was wondering why they weren't super motivated.  [00:19:16] Sarah: She doesn't really, she closed like two doors a month. And I'm like, well, yeah, cause she's comfortable. [00:19:22] She's super comfortable there. So she's never going to be motivated to work harder and do more and stretch herself and go above and beyond. Because she doesn't have to, you gave it to her. I have to work for it. There's a difference. And the other thing is salespeople who they love the challenge. They don't want you to give it to them. [00:19:43] They don't want it. Like they'll tell you like, "Oh, I'll take 500, 000 a year for doing nothing." But they wouldn't really be fulfilled by that. They'll probably take it because they love money. I mean, who doesn't, but they wouldn't be fulfilled by it. Yeah. If you give them 500, 000 for doing nothing versus if they make 500, 000 because of the work that they did and because of their efforts, there's a big difference. [00:20:06] They're going to feel really proud of that and they're going to want that. So they're going to chase it. So you have to dangle the carrot and make it something that's interesting enough. You have to, you, and you have to set it up so that they have the ability to make at least six figures because that's what sales people want But don't just throw it to them.  [00:20:24] Jason: And to be clear No, bdm should be making five hundred thousand dollars.  [00:20:28] Sarah: That's not accurate at all. [00:20:30] Jason: There's really great bdm. Maybe if they're helping do some acquisition deals If they're adding 500 a year, maybe all right So but if your bdm can live comfortably without adding 10 doors a month, your commission structure is wrong. They should be minimum adding about 10 doors a month as a full time BDM minimum. [00:20:52] And they should need to do 10 doors a month in order to just reach comfort. And if they're really motivated, they'll do even more than that. They'll do even more than that because then it gets exciting, right? Then it's the game, right? It's the hunt. Okay. So we talked about compensation. [00:21:08] Is there any other challenges or mistakes we see people make compensation wise?  [00:21:13] Sarah: I think those are the big ones. I think let's though, before we wrap up, let's talk a little bit more about the recognition piece and then we'll close it out. Okay. Because people are like what do you mean recognition? [00:21:25] Like, "Hey, I see you." [00:21:26] Jason: So recognition is a process of just helping the team members be seen, especially in front of other team members for doing good things or accomplishing things. So the way that we do that in DoorGrow and in our operating system, DoorGrow OS. Maybe you've heard of like EOS or traction or some of these things. [00:21:43] DoorGrow OS is better. And what we do in DoorGrow OS to increase the amount of recognition is in every meeting we share wins. So if it's our weekly commitments meeting, we're sharing what wins did we have last week and everybody adds to the list. What did we do in our monthly goal setting? [00:22:03] We share wins for everything we did the previous month. Same thing with the quarter and annually, and it's pretty awesome. Like, we're building these lists and everybody feels great. And then even in our daily huddle meeting, which is like a 15 minute, 20 minute meeting we do every morning, I guess we do ours in the afternoon, but we do with our team. [00:22:21] We do Caught Being Awesome and we allow team members to share their wins or to highlight somebody else. And so our team are highly motivated because most of them are recognition motivated. So we're recognizing them. If we do give a bonus, like say for the holidays or something like that, we do it in a way that the focus is we wanted to recognize you because of what you've done for us this last year. So it's still about recognition and appreciation. And so that will get you team members that are incredibly loyal to you, that love being part of the team, that feel a sense of belonging, and that means a lot more to most of your team members than getting more dollars. [00:23:04] Is that good?  [00:23:04] Sarah: They want to feel important and they want to feel valued and they want to know that you care about what they're doing and especially in an industry like property management because it's tough. Yeah. Everybody has those like really awful days because let's be honest, sometimes owners or tenants or vendors and sometimes life just happens, right? [00:23:27] So it's tough and sometimes it's tough. All the time or it's tough for a while. This is not an easy industry. So when you've got this pressure all the time and this like annoyance, like, "Oh, that tenant's going to call me and yell at me again, or, Oh, like, Oh, I have to have this uncomfortable conversation and tell my client that we need a $15,000 sewer repair. [00:23:50] I don't want to do this." The it's the little things that will keep your team going and make sure that they understand like, "Hey. I know it's not the most glorious thing. I know it's always not super exciting, and it's not always super easy. However, what you're doing really makes a difference. It really is important and this is like the bigger mission and vision of the business and you contribute directly to that vision and what you're doing matters." [00:24:22] So that way it's like, Oh, you know, it's not this grind and this drain and we don't have a lot of churn on our own team and burnout and you know, bad team members that are like, "Oh, I hate my job." Right. Because that's super easy. It's easy and then you make it even harder. It's easy just by itself and then you make it harder because it's property management. [00:24:43] So it's super easy in property management to have that. So let's combat that. And just by recognizing them and saying like, "Hey, I saw you took care of that thing. Like, hey, oh my god, you got all the leases done. And hey," like, and it could be the littlest things. It's things that they do. Anyway, it doesn't matter. [00:25:00] They don't have to do anything that's like spectacular. "Oh my God. You like cleaned all the bathrooms today, Sally. Thank you. That was amazing. Like you didn't have to do that." It's little things and it's things that they're going to be doing anyway, but just let them know, "Hey, I see it. And I appreciate it." [00:25:16] Jason: All right. So the other thing I'll say about recognition is you might be thinking, well, salespeople and entrepreneurs, do they like recognition? The answer is yes. They like it too. We still like it. They like it too. So if you're giving them recognition that adds more fuel to the fire, right? And so you need a system like DoorGrow OS in which everybody gets recognized for their accomplishments and everyone will perform and behave better because they feel seen by everyone. [00:25:42] And that has value, right? Now one more point I want to make is you might get somebody, an assistant, you're like a VA, you're like they're amazing. I love them so much. They're so awesome. I don't want to lose them. And then you are like, because you're hardwired to be so money focused, you're like, I'm going to pay them a whole bunch more money. [00:26:02] I see this happen so often. Be very careful about just giving out raises prematurely. Be very careful about this because what I've seen over and over again, I've been in masterminds, multimillion dollar business owners, we're hanging out together and they're like, "Hey I just got this assistant. She was super amazing. So I gave her this big raise 'cause she's so awesome. And now she's showing up late. She's not like getting things done. She seems like entitled." This is what happens when you compensate people financially, instead of giving them recognition and doing it based on how you think instead of what they want, you then sabotage their efforts or they start to sabotage their efforts. [00:26:43] So don't start paying somebody more just because you like them, right? There needs to be a justifiable reason and they need to be able to justify that reason. And so they may need to come to you and be like, "Hey, here's why I deserve more compensation." And you're checking in with them regularly and saying, "Hey, how are things going?" [00:27:01] And if you have an open communication with your team members, they're going to tell you when they feel like it's time that they deserve some more money. And it's going to be really uncomfortable for them to do it if they don't like money, it's going to be so uncomfortable to have that conversation, but it's also uncomfortable for you to spend more money. [00:27:17] Team are the biggest expense. Your discomfort in giving somebody a raise should be equal to their discomfort in asking for it. It's my thought. And so they need to be reaching out. To some degree, and you may recognize somebody deserves more pay, you know, deep down they're being paid too little. [00:27:36] So then you can give them a raise, but be careful about handing this out.  [00:27:40] Sarah: My other little tip with raises is I worked in corporate for a bit and it was like every year, you know, you're going to get a raise and how much of a raise you get depend, depend on all your stupid numbers and metrics and all, you know, call time and all that stuff. [00:27:55] So you knew you were getting a raise though, like for sure, unless for some reason they're firing you, right? But other than that, you know, like, "Oh, my annual review is coming up. How much money am I going to make now?" And then they expect it. And then you don't really appreciate it because it's expected. And it's like normal now it's like, "Oh, well I'm getting a raise now. [00:28:13] Now I'm going to raise." And then. What also happens is, "well, I'm getting a raise," and sometimes people go, "Oh, well I deserve like this much." And then they don't get that. They get less. And then they're like mad about it. They're mad because they're making more money. It's not as much money as they wanted or as I expected. [00:28:30] So one of my big rules when it comes to raises is with raise comes responsibility. Don't just throw out more money. Like, "Hey, if you want to go from here to here, I'm happy to take you there. This is what that would look like. Are you in?  [00:28:44] Jason: Okay. One last thing. Titles. Titles are heavily connected to compensation. [00:28:49] So I dealt with this week. I talked to a property manager. They had like 20 doors or something and they hired a director of operations. No. You can't afford a director of operations. So the thing is, yeah, I said, "tell them they are an operations assistant in ecrow." And said, I gave you this inflated title. [00:29:06] You're an operations assistant. Maybe then eventually they could graduate operations manager. Maybe then be the, you know, maybe eventually. The director of operations, VP of operations, COO, but titles matter. So be very careful about handing out titles. Start everybody out as a something assistant or junior  [00:29:24] Sarah: property manager, junior assistant, property manager, or you can just have levels, property manager, one property manager, two property manager, three, like. [00:29:32] There's a lot of different ways you can do it. Be careful about titles. Yeah, be super careful about  [00:29:36] Jason: titles. Because they'll go look it up on salary. com and they'll be like, "Oh I deserve this. I'm director of property management. I guess I should be getting 150k or whatever, right?"  [00:29:46] Sarah: And also, 20 doors, fun little caveat. Be careful when you're reviewing resumes with titles for the same reason. Because titles they sound really impressive sometimes and they mean they could be made up They mean nothing when I got hired at an insurance job. They were like, oh we have to make your business card And I said, "okay," and they said "well, what do you want your title to be?" [00:30:05] And I said, "I pick my own title?" And they're like, "yeah, you can put whatever you want on there." And I said, "well, aren't I a sales rep?" And they're like, "yeah, but don't put sales rep." I'm like, "oh, okay. So what should I put?" They're like, "put like account manager or account executive or like something like that." [00:30:24] So I don't remember what we came up with, but. Came up with something that sounded like I was like, "Ooh, I'm a big deal." I was a sales rep. That's it. I sell things. That's it. But the title sounded a lot more impressive. And sometimes that can go to people's head just a bit. And keep in mind, money is connected to the title. [00:30:45] It always will be. So get on. And if you're like, "well, I don't know what to," Google will help you just get on. Well, I just had this conversation, I think two weeks ago with client. " Well, I don't want to hire like the COO of the company. I can't afford that." You're right. You can't. So. [00:31:00] What are they doing? Maybe they're the team leader. Maybe they're the office manager. Maybe they're an operations assistant. Like get on, find some kind of title, get on Google and say, what are other job titles for this thing? And it will tell you and pick one of those and avoid things like manager, juror, and like VP president or like, Senior account executive, things like that. [00:31:26] Because it. It will be startling if someone. Looks at their position and realizes. "Oh, I should be making 125 and I'm only paid 55. Huh? That's odd."  [00:31:38] Jason: All right, so wrap us up. Give us a call to action. [00:31:41] Sarah: Just If you feel like you're struggling with any of this and I know there's so many of you that are like, "oh man. Yeah, that's me." [00:31:48] I might have made some of these mistakes and that's okay because we all have we've done it to Go on doorgrow. com Book a call with us. We can help you with this stuff.  [00:31:56] Jason: This is what we do. Yeah, and if you made any of these mistakes, I guarantee there's a lot of others going on in the business you can't see right now. [00:32:03] We can help you get this cleaned up and help you make a lot more money, help you grow a lot faster. All right. All right until next time, to our mutual growth. Bye everyone. [00:32:11] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:32:37] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Kent Hardman is a property management entrepreneur who took his property management company from zero to over 120 doors in less than a year!  In this episode, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull sit down with Kent to talk about the mindset changes and routines he implemented to kickstart and grow his property management company. You'll Learn [04:51] How your personal life impacts your business [08:23] Shifting your mindset toward growth [17:44] 10x-ing your business [24:48] Changing your life and business Tweetables “Self-care is the foundation. You've got to start there. Put your own oxygen mask on first.” “When it's somebody's doing sales and they start to get evidence, that's when magic happens because then we have our confidence.” “You've got to have that long-term vision to get through that kind of rut of a week.” “If you have more than 3 priorities in your life, you have 0.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: Self-care is the foundation. You got to start there. Put your own oxygen mask on first.  [00:00:05] Kent: Yeah. The plane's going down. You're supposed to put your mask on first. You know, how can I help my daughter if I can't even help myself  [00:00:12] Jason: All right. Welcome DoorGrowers to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you're interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrower. DoorGrower property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. [00:00:36] Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management, business owners and their businesses. [00:00:52] We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management, growth expert Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, along with Sarah Hull, the Co-owner and COO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show. [00:01:12] And we're hanging out here with Kent Hardman. Kent, how you doing, man?  [00:01:16] Kent: I'm doing well. Glad to finally be here. [00:01:19] Jason: It's good to have you. So you've been a client for how long now?  [00:01:23] Kent: About a year.  [00:01:24] Jason: About a year. And this has been quite a journey for you. You're in a very different place you were, you know, now from a year ago. And so why don't we go back and why don't you give the listeners a little bit of your background and history so they get an idea of who you are and what got you into property management.  [00:01:40] Kent: Sure. Yeah, so I'm here in Cincinnati, Ohio. I grew up in Cincinnati. Won, the parent lottery had a pair of awesome parents, and I grew up in this old tutor and from a young age, just I was fascinated with architecture, real estate. Went to Miami University here, close to Cincinnati had what I refer to as my real job for a couple of years worked for a manufacturer. In the marketing department and I just knew it wasn't for me. [00:02:06] I always wanted to get into real estate. And you know, it was about 2006. I was networking with real estate companies. Nobody was hiring because of the economy. 2008 happened and literally I got into real estate in September of 2008, you know, people were running for the doors and I was running into a burning building. [00:02:25] And started out, I got my real estate license first, because that was the easiest thing for me to do. And did the realtor thing for a little bit, nothing against real estate agents, but I just, I had bigger ambitions than that. And got into buying rental property in Cincinnati and at the time my father retired financially, he had some cash to throw at some investments and me and my dad started buying apartment buildings and how I got into property management was just learning by doing, doing it for myself. Bought a bunch of apartment buildings, a lot of 10 families. [00:03:00] That then evolved into doing some urban development in Cincinnati. Cincinnati has recently gone through a great renaissance, so I was also in charge of doing the property management, but then also putting deals together development type deals, specifically in historic type shells that me and my dad would buy and, you know, build new on the inside. [00:03:19] And going back, so I'm 44 right now, going back two years ago, I was trying to kind of figure out what my second act is going to be, and, you know, I just identified how much I enjoy property management. Everything that you listed at the beginning of of your podcast, that's why I'm in it. And, you know, I love the flexibility, the freedom. I just enjoy the different people I meet, both from landlords to tenants.  [00:03:43] And, yeah, so then I joined DoorGrow about a year ago. And it changed it from just a thought to me actually being serious. Like, yeah, I'm actually doing this.  [00:03:53] Jason: So where were you at when you joined DoorGrow? What was going on that made you decide, "Hey, I need to get some help or I want to join a coaching program." what was going on? [00:04:02] Kent: You guys found me on Facebook. You know, some ads start popping up. I'm like, you know, "what is this?" And clicked on it. And immediately, you know, in the original video, I saw you just jumped right into mindset and I was like, "wow. Okay. This is, you know, a property management type coach with mindset." I'm like, "that's a pretty potent mix. And yeah, just at the time, personally, I was in a really rough spot that I'm happy to dive into if you like. And yeah, DoorGrow just helped me just get the momentum to start making some phone calls. You know, I was sitting there having the idea to do it, but not doing it. [00:04:37] And I was like, "well, I'm going to join this." And by doing that, it just gave me the confidence to, you know, start reaching out to people and "hey, I'll manage your property." [00:04:47] Jason: Yeah. So, well, cool. You had mentioned you know, you were struggling with some stuff. What was going on in your life at the time that you joined the program? [00:04:55] Kent: Sure. Yeah. A lot from what I remember. Yeah, so, long story short, I was in a mentally abusive relationship with somebody, and we were not married, and something happened that I was able to get her out of my life, well then, our daughter, we share a daughter together that I basically raised by myself, in the state of Ohio, women have all the rights over children. And she got at me, and I didn't see my daughter for about six months. I compare it's about the closest thing to losing a child that you can, you know, get to my sense. [00:05:26] I didn't, but it was basically on that level.  [00:05:29] Jason: There's nothing to make you value your kids like somebody taking them away from you So, my kids are what got me into entrepreneurs and that's really what drove me to be able to have the flexibility to control my day and my life and my weeks so that when I had them, I could spend time. [00:05:43] It was a big deal to me. So, but their perspective is probably "dad's always working because he's working from home," you know? Being able to be an entrepreneur and have that freedom was what really drove me to do what I do. So yeah, I remember us having some pointed conversations, like you were struggling, I think, just cognitively or mentally with everything that was going on with you. There was a lot of stress. You were dealing with a lot of stuff. And my perception, from the coach's perspective is that your confidence was kind of shot. You just like, you had the skill, you had the knowledge, and we could teach you the stuff to do, but in the beginning you really weren't believing in yourself. [00:06:23] Kent: Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I mean, you know, mentally, I'm struggling just to get out of bed. I mean, it was a challenge just to face the day, you know, and I'll never forget at the time. I went to go see somebody a therapist talk to and she said, "oh, what are you doing?" I'm like, "well, I'm trying to do this property management thing." [00:06:39] "Well, what do you do on a daily basis?" [00:06:41] "Well, I call people that don't want to, you know, hear from me" and, you know, and she's like, "probably need to get another job." I'll never forget.  [00:06:49] She said, "well, why don't tomorrow you call one person and then from there, you know, try to do better the next day." And at the same time, I reached out to a good friend of mine, probably my closest friend. [00:06:59] And I just said, "Hey, man, I'm not doing good, you know, like, what should I do?" And he said, "man, concentrate on the little things. You know, "are you taking care of yourself? You know, are you eating good? Are you sleeping? You know, are you keeping a regular routine with the sleep schedule?" I wasn't doing any of those things, you know, and so just--  [00:07:15] Jason: One day, we had a similar conversation. [00:07:17] I'm like, self care is the foundation. You got to start there. Put your own oxygen mask on first. Yeah.  [00:07:23] Kent: So, yeah, you know, exactly. Yeah. The plane's going down. You're supposed to put your mask on first. You know, how can I help my daughter if I can't even help myself and, you know, it just started just one day I got out of bed and took a shower and I'm like, wow, that's more than I've done in a couple of weeks. And then I picked up the phone and the next day I called somebody else. And then it got into a point of me just, you know, I'm not naturally a outgoing sales, salesy type person. And you know, then I just start killing it. I just enjoy the numbers game. I enjoy that I could have, I could call 50 people and it wouldn't bother me 49 of them wouldn't want to talk to me. [00:08:02] It'd be that one, you know, just that feeling of just, you know, that home run that you hit, like, man, that was worth it, you know. And that's how I started. I just started calling strangers. I have a specific geographical area that I targeted and I had a way that I hunted down their information. It was a lot of data mining, but it was just the dialing  [00:08:20] for dollars is how I got my start. Yeah.  [00:08:23] Jason: So what shifted being involved in the coaching at DoorGrow? What do you feel like really had an impact for you and how did it help you? And how many doors did you have when you started with us? Let's start over there.  [00:08:34] Kent: Zero.  [00:08:35] Jason: Okay. Zero doors. How many doors are you at right now? [00:08:38] Kent: 107.  [00:08:38] Jason: That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. Thank you. And so, you know, where do you think you would be if you didn't have DoorGrow? How, how did DoorGrow contribute? How would this be different?  [00:08:49] Kent: Yeah. Well, you know, the first question you asked, you know, how did DoorGrow help me? Sense of community is the first thing that came to mind. [00:08:56] The fact that I was joining forward thinking property managers. You know, I felt like I was at home because it's something that, you know, I believe in, I believe the industry is a little behind the times and a couple of different areas. Technology being one and, you know, we can dive into all the other areas, but just. [00:09:13] I felt like I was in a place where people understood what I was trying to do professionally. And, you know, that was a big thing, the community, but then another big portion of it was having somebody holding me accountable you know, I'll never forget Morgan reaching out to me, "hey, how can I help? How can I help?" I'm like, hey check in with me, you know, make sure I'm calling my 50 people a day, you know, just do that weekly, you know, because then I'm telling you, I'm doing it. If I'm not doing it you know, I feel a lot more responsible if I'm telling somebody I'm going to do what I need to do. [00:09:43] Jason: So, yeah, I think you put in the work and it's awesome to see that. You know, we can give clients the strategies. And the stuff that we give people to do works, but not everybody does it. A lot of people listening are like, all they're hearing is like, "Kent makes a bunch of phone calls." [00:09:57] They're like," I don't want to do that." You know, what's different about the strategies that you're doing with DoorGrow versus what you maybe would have tried on your own then. I would have just been kicking tires  [00:10:07] Kent: if it was just myself. You know, it still would have been idea, [00:10:10] "hey, I'm going to do this. You know, it's really just, it just gave me that confidence, you know, even jumping on the weekly calls and talking to people kind of sharing the war stories. You know, it's like, oh, you know, I'm not the only one having these struggles, and it's been great to, not that I like hearing people struggle, but it's, you know, it's nice to hear other people are going through the same thing I was, and that goes back to kind of that sense of community that I got from joining DoorGrow. [00:10:36] Jason: Did you go through the rapid revamp class? I did. Yep. And so what changes did you make to your business going through that pricing, your sales pitch, brand new website, any of these?  [00:10:48] Kent: All of them. But the one that really stands out is my pitch. You know, that was something that, like I said earlier, I'm not naturally a very confident person. [00:10:58] I'm a very empathetic he's some love type person, you know, and the idea of being a very salesy person intimidated me. But you kind of alluded to it. It was just a lack of confidence. You know, I know I can do what I need to do. It's just having that confidence and believing and yeah, just really defining my pitch, it was the biggest thing I took from that course. You know, website was an amazing, you know, pricing, all that stuff. But that was the one big thing I took from  [00:11:24] Jason: it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it really is. It's pretty significant that the level of confidence that you go into in sales when you just know that what your pitches and you know why you're doing what you're doing and you know that you can benefit people. [00:11:39] And and that's what we teach. We teach authentic sales and, you know, seeing you shift from thinking you had to be a salesperson to shifting into having a solid pitch and just knowing that you could help people and being able to go out and do that. It probably made it a lot easier to just even make the phone calls and reach out to the right partners and the right people that could do some business with you. [00:12:02] Kent: Oh yeah. You know, having that confidence and you know, another big thing that I'm thinking of coming through the year with us talking here is just the the whole concept of momentum. I would call get one person, okay, let me get another person. And just that idea of just, let's keep the ball rolling. Let's do a little bit better the next day.  [00:12:18] Jason: Yeah, it starts to give you evidence. When it's somebody's doing sales and they start to get evidence, that's when magic happens because then we have our confidence. It becomes real, then we can see that we are getting results. We can see that the needles moving for, you know, in a positive direction and that can be really significant. [00:12:36] Sarah: So Kent, do you mind kind of talking about like the financial situation that you were in and kind of like your journey through all of that? Because, I think that's something that a lot of people really struggle with is like, business is not easy. And sometimes, you know, we either underestimate or really overestimate, like, what it's going to look like. [00:12:58] Very rarely, I think, are we accurate in our planning and our methodology? So if you wouldn't mind, like, you know, it's just sharing some of the. You know, the financial piece, like, what did this look like, you know, from the start to like, where you are now.? [00:13:13] Kent: Yeah. You know, what I've described to people is when I said what I do, you know, I said, "hey, you know, growing a property management company is not impossible. It's a difficult thing to do, but I did it with two, my two arms tied behind my back, you know, because I was struggling just to get out of bed," you know, is where I began. And, you know, it's just. I knew that I could do it. Once again, going back to the confidence and the routine of doing it, but yeah, you know, the, at the end of the day, I enjoy this business for multiple reasons, but from a financial piece, I enjoy the residual income that comes in. I enjoyed the flexibility that this job allows. And yeah, you know, my expectations coming in, you know, I had my spreadsheet on what it would look like and, you know, my goal was 100 doors. I'm going to be at 100 doors and I know Jason, you shared that's a lot of people when they start up their goal and I'll never forget. It was right around Christmas time last year. I'm like, "well, I got to call somebody" and, you know, I started calling people and after my first day, "I said, my goal is 100 doors by the end of the year, 1 year from now." Yeah. Well, I was able to reach that last month September 13th and it was a very good feeling that day, kind of walking on clouds, like, man, did I really just do that? You know, and just looking back yeah, I just had to put in the work. At the end of the day, it was a challenge to call that first person, but I just knew, I told myself, I'm going to have to pound these phones for six months. Is what I told myself and you know, so I'm like, all right, May, June, I should start getting some income man. It was right on the dot. I mean, literally day one of the second half of the year, client number one, client number two, you know, but it's like you got to have that long term vision to get through that kind of rut of a week of without securing anything, you know, you just got to. [00:15:07] And once again, going back to DoorGrow gave me the confidence. I mean, you know, if I didn't have DoorGrow, I'm sure I would have gave up like, yeah, this is not going anywhere.  [00:15:15] Jason: Yeah. So, I mean, it's been awesome seeing your growth and where are you at now? Like we know you've got more doors, what, but how does life feel different for you? And what I mean is in the beginning, struggling to get out of bed, like life was difficult, zero doors in the beginning. Give us some contrast, help us understand where, what's life like now for you.  [00:15:34] Kent: I mean, night and day, you know, I love the quote. [00:15:37] I don't know who said it, but "if you have more than 3 priorities in your life, you have 0," and right when I heard that, I'm like, man, what are my 3 priorities? Well, my health, because if I don't have my health my longevity, I got nothing, you know, that's the foundation. So, taking time to work out, to exercise, to bike you know, family is the second one. [00:15:57] You know, my daughter, my parents and then the third is work. And just having that focus has given me great clarity. You know, I don't have time for anything else outside of my three priorities. You know, I, you know, I'm going to, I went to bed last night about eight o'clock. I was dead tired because I busted my butt on my three priorities. [00:16:17] So, you know, to answer your question, how's it switched? It's just I'm so thankful for what I went through because it's given me extreme focus on what's important to me, what I need to do to survive and to thrive.  [00:16:28] Jason: Yeah. We had a good conversation about 10x. I remember. What did you take away from that coaching call? [00:16:36] Kent: Yeah, it's so funny. We talked when you originally and you started with health, you know, "hey, man, make sure you're working out. Make sure you're taking care of yourself. I mean, I took a lot from that, but that was the biggest thing. I wasn't taking care of myself. And I got better over this year, but I made that priority. [00:16:53] Number 1, you know, I prioritize sleep. I prioritize going to the gym and you know, the other big thing I got from it was I was kind of messing around. Like, I didn't realize how close I actually was, you know, I thought it was gonna take me forever to get where I wanted to be door count wise. And it was like, to the day, like, maybe not even a week when I went from 30 doors to 105 doors, And all that was I, you know, it was easier or what I took from the conversation. It was easier for me to, like, try to be a professional athlete than trying to be like a college athlete. You know, so what I did was I started calling people in my database with more doors. You know, I started stop messing around with the 2 families, and I was going 4 families and up and just there was things just started gushing in. [00:17:44] Jason: Yeah yeah, we chatted about that. And for those listening, the conversation was something like it's easier to do 10x and 2x, which comes from that the book with the title 10x is easier than 2x by Ben Hardy. Which is he's teaching Dan Sullivan's principles in that book. And but the idea is there's very few things that can get you, that you can do to 10x. [00:18:06] And when you think about that, and there's a lot of things, infinite things you could do to 2x your business, right to have incremental growth. So. I just, I challenged you. I said, I want you to sit with that question and think, what could I do to 10x? And when we just start exploring that question, we start to change your behaviors. [00:18:22] And you've found some ways you're like, well, I'll go after people with more doors, people with more doors secretly for those listening, the people with more units and more doors are better clients, they value you more typically, and they are easier to get on, you know, than the one offs in a lot of situations. [00:18:40] And so, you know, we can choose our ideal customer and go after them. And you started shifting your focus, which is interesting. And then you started seeing a shift in your door count significantly.  [00:18:52] Kent: And, you know, it's worth repeating what you said there, you know, the higher door count people, the more sophisticated investors are way easier than some of the mom and pops with, like, a 2 family, you know, for every reason you just mentioned right there.  [00:19:07] Jason: Yeah, they get so emotional about their property. They maybe used to live in it. They're like, "Timmy etched his height in the wall, like, since he was, you know, a little kid and like, we need to maintain it to like, it has to stay the same forever," and they don't want to treat it like a rental property. [00:19:22] Yeah. So, yeah, well, Kent, you know, we've really appreciated having you as a client. It's been great to see your growth and success. Where do you see yourself in a year from now?  [00:19:31] Kent: Yeah. So there's kind of two things going on when I'm thinking, you know, I've just seen, you know, my number one priority right now, I'm where I'm at the door number that I wanted to be you know, I want to make sure my highest priority right now is make sure I can deliver to what I told the people I can do so, yes, I have greater ambitions of growing doors, but me servicing what I already have right now is of my number 1 priority and number 2 and I've mentioned this to you, Jason. [00:20:02] I've mentioned it to a couple other people. You know, me getting up to 1000 doors. Is going to be easier than what I just went through over the past year to get to 100. And, I'm using the last part of this year to kind of button up my processes with the things that I'm servicing right now and going into the next year My goal is going to be to let me double what I did. [00:20:23] Let me try to get 200 doors, you know And just see where that goes But then I, you know, I say that it's like, wow, screw that. I'm going to go after a thousand doors. Why am I selling myself short? You know?  [00:20:35] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. I think you're, you know, that's interesting. I think a lot of people listening to this might have less than a hundred doors. [00:20:42] And if you do reach out to DoorGrow, let's get your business fixed up because having less than a hundred doors is not really a profitable business. Like it's really difficult. To make money when you have like 20 doors or 30 doors, right? 50 doors. And a lot of people get stuck right there as a solopreneur. [00:20:59] And and they've already made usually a lot of mistakes related to pricing and branding and everything else. So everything feels so uphill. And then a lot of times they're losing more doors sometimes than they're getting on or about the same. So they're just, they have this high churn rate where they're losing clients every year. [00:21:13] And then getting some clients and they're like, "I'm not growing." That's a painful grind to be in. And that's way harder than if you break the hundred door barrier in a healthy way, which you did and you know how to grow, which you do. And you know how to grow independently of ads. You don't, you're not beholden to some marketer to advertising agencies. [00:21:33] Like you can just go out there and create business. And it actually takes you less time than it would to follow up on cold, crappy leads that you were buying. And so you're doing things in a smarter way than most property managers do, because most probably are listening to this going, "well, I don't want to make phone calls. [00:21:48] I'm going to go be stupid and spend a bunch of money on ads and try and do a bunch of advertising instead," because they want to avoid something that's going to actually work well and get them warmer leads that have a higher close rate that they're not competing with the low price property manager, you know, out in the market.  [00:22:05] Sarah: I think it's the perception of pain. It's all, it's not, you know, people aren't like, "Oh, I want to do this way instead." It's just that it sounds painful where it sounds a lot easier just to be like, "Oh, I'll just pay for ads. I'll pay a marketer. And then like leads will come to me." It sounds easier. [00:22:23] And it's so deceptive because it's so hard. It's so hard. But it sounds, I think when people hear like, "Oh, well, I have to talk to people and I have to make a bunch of calls and I have to reach out to a bunch of people? I have to do a bunch of work?" Then they go, "Oh, this is like this hard thing." But what they don't realize is that if you, like, if you're spending money on ads and you're advertising, like, and you're getting leads that are coming to you, you still have to make a bunch of calls. You still have to talk to a bunch of people. You still have to do a bunch of work and you're actually doing more work because these people don't know who you are and you're just spending money. Like hopefully this works! I hope it works. So, like, is that something that was like hard for you to get over that hurdle and just like start doing the work. Was that hard for you?  [00:23:07] Kent: Oh, yeah. I mean, I you know, I procrastinated forever, you know, it's you know, I spent so much time, "I'm gonna do this with you know, trying to find leads and you know," basically I was just prolonging the pain, you know, I'm then finally one day. I'm like just call somebody, you know I think the best example was it was right around Memorial Day. It was that Saturday And I got up, I'm like, all right, "I'm going to call my 50 contacts or my 50 buildings." And man, I was pacing around my computer cause I did not want to do it. You know, I came up with every excuse. [00:23:44] "Oh, it's a holiday. Nobody wants to talk to me." You know, there were some curse words that I just started saying to myself, like just trying to hype myself up, like, "man, just do it." Finally, I sat down and did and started calling and call number one. So I reached out to 50. Prospects 50 buildings call number 1 was a home run call. [00:24:03] Number 50 was a home run. Everything in the middle was a dud, but I was just like, I got off. It was so funny to have that 1st 1 and that 50th. I was like, wow, that was a lesson right there. You just don't know what's around the corner. But yeah, Sarah, yeah, definitely procrastinated to finally pick up the phone. [00:24:21] But once I, you know, talking about that momentum, once I started getting some first base hits, those then turned into double plays, and then they got a couple of home runs out of it, but you just got to start.  [00:24:32] Sarah: Yeah. Awesome. Thanks for sharing that.  [00:24:34] Jason: Cool. Well, can any parting words of wisdom for people that are, or were are right now in a similar spot to where you were when you first came to us? [00:24:44] Or maybe they're dabbling like 20, 30 doors are struggling? [00:24:48] Kent: Yeah. I mean, it's been, you know, there's been a couple of things in my life that were like moments. I'm like, man, that, that changed my course. And one was joining DoorGrow. Professionally. And, you know, the second Jason's the call that mean you had, you know, maybe a month or two ago when I shared what I went through. [00:25:05] You know, that was just 2 things that just, you just get tattooed in my brain. And I know I've said this a few times to you even, you know, I'm like, "Oh, I could have got where I am right now, but DoorGrow helped me do it quicker." I'm confident in saying I'm even going to remove that from my vocabulary. [00:25:21] I would not have been able to get to where I am right now. Yes, I did put in the work, but DoorGrow was great on showing me little tricks of the trade, some different technologies I can implement that just compress that time from a very long time into a very short time. So, yeah, you know, if anybody's on the fence about joining you guys I'm a customer for life. [00:25:44] That's good stuff. We're ending right now. That's like, that's it.  [00:25:48] Sarah: That's it. That's all we need to hear. My day is complete. Thank you. And because this is what we do. This is what we do and we like doing it. Like I'm, this like really fulfills me. This is what I'm really passionate about doing is making that change and making that impact. [00:26:03] Jason: Yeah. Can we be real? So like yesterday was a rough day for us, right? Business can be rough sometimes, like, you know, we get stressed out. We like feel overwhelmed. Things change in the business. Things change with the team. You know, sometimes you get bad news. [00:26:18] Like business is not easy. It's a new day, you pick yourself up, you get to work, and Kent, it's been awesome seeing you put in the work, get the results, and that's really what we value as coaches, we need clients that are willing to do the work required to get the result, we will just help them with the system, and when we get great people, and they have a system, they're going to win. [00:26:46] There's no question. Our system's proven. We love when we get to connect with the right people that are ready for a good system. And those of you listening, when you really want success, when you're really committed to success, and you're willing to do the work required, and you just do it, even if you're sucking at it, the system will become clear. [00:27:06] You will find the system. And that's when greatness starts to come. That's where success starts to come. So put in the work, put in the effort. And then when you're ready, reach out the DoorGrow, we've got the system and then we'll help you get going. So Kent, thanks for coming on the show. Appreciate you. [00:27:20] Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for your time. We'll talk to you again soon. All right. Sounds good. See you guys. All right. So if you are a property management entrepreneur, that's wanting to add doors and make a difference in everything that we talked about, then, you know, reach out. We would love to support you. [00:27:37] Just go to doorgrow.Com. Also go to doorgrowclub.Com, join our free group and community. We give away a lot of value. Hopefully that'll get you up to the point where you can afford to work with us. And and when you're ready, we're here to help you take things to the next level. So bye everyone. Until next time to our mutual growth. [00:27:54] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:28:21] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Do you feel comfortable where you are at in your property management business? You might have achieved your initial goals. You started the business, you got the number of doors you wanted… now what? Today, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull talk about growing beyond the initial goals you set as a business owner by leveling up your mindset. You'll Learn [01:30] Don't be a slave to your own business [04:11] You can achieve more [09:28] The 3 different levels of want [16:33] The 3 things necessary to achieve [20:15] Only YOU know what you are capable of Tweetables “You know, deep down whether your business is great or not.” “You're able to make a bigger impact and a bigger difference if you have a successful healthy business.” “Find a way to justify success because success allows you contribution.” “You spend your whole life trying to fit in when really you need to spend time trying to stand out.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: Are you a "kinda" property manager or business owner or entrepreneur or are you non-negotiable, you refuse to be in an industry and not be one of the best. You're going to be great. Like you've committed to being great.  [00:00:14] Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently then you are a DoorGrow property manager. DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:00:51] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management, business owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let's get into the show. All right.  [00:01:14] So, a lot has been going on. Last episode, Sarah and I talked about how we had just come back from an event. We had a whole bunch of different ideas. This last week, then her family came to visit, so I haven't been able to implement a lot of these ideas, but it was super great seeing her family. [00:01:30] And, you know, one thing I was really grateful for during the last week, at the end of the week, I said to Sarah, "you know, it's really great that we have a business that allows us that when we want to, we can have those moments with family. Like family had come to visit, we can spend that time with them." And she agreed. [00:01:48] And so. This is something that I want all of you to be able to have an experience too. Hopefully you have this already in your business. If you do not, if you're struggling, if you're like, man, "I haven't even taken a vacation, let alone a few days off to spend with family. I haven't taken a vacation or a few days off to spend with family or anything like that in a while," then you have built the wrong business. You didn't build a business for you. You didn't build a business based on what you wanted. You built a business based on what your clients want maybe. You built a business that you let take over and become its own boss. And the business is now in control of you. You are now a servant or a slave to your business, and you should be the one in control, the one in charge. And so if you're in that position, you know, I want you to get out of this. I want to give you an escape route. So I just did a masterclass on the biggest secret killer or thief in a business, and that's interruptions. And I talked about doing a time study, and this is also the beginning gateway to escaping your business and creating some freedom is to do a time study. [00:02:58] And you can use our time study. If you'd like, reach out to us. We can give you our time study document. Just DM me on social anywhere and just say time study or something like that. And my team will say “what am I supposed to give them? Give them the link to our time study document." But the basic idea is that you're going to track your time every 15 minutes. [00:03:19] You're going to figure out where your time's going. You're going to figure out: "What am I doing that gives me fulfillment and what am I doing that's taking it away like it's draining me?" And so you're either going to have a plus sign or a minus sign that you're going to write next to every 15 minutes of where your time goes. [00:03:36] So if you're doing something where you feel like you're in the flow and you really enjoy it and this is fun for you and whatever it is, plus sign if you're like, "man, if I never had to do that ever again, and I had a team member to do that thing..." minus sign. Put down a minus sign. I have a special guest Welcome, Sarah.  [00:03:55] I'm giving up. [00:03:55] To the DoorGrow show. She was waiting for somebody to show up at our door They didn't show up. [00:04:00] So, all right. Nope. I was mentioning that if they haven't been able to take a trip or vacation a while, that they should maybe do a time study. So that's kind of where I've gotten so far.  [00:04:11] All right. Cool. So I was thinking at funnel hanging live at the event that we went to, I really enjoyed Eric Thomas. Yeah. And here's my notes from that, but I was thinking we would touch on that for the remainder of the episode. [00:04:25] Yeah. That's cool. Cool. And it's kind of related. He's an inspirational speaker, this gentleman named Eric Thomas. And he's gotten to speak to Warren Buffett and billionaires and, you know, stuff like this. And he was sharing this idea about this concept of these three levels of desire. [00:04:42] And he started out by talking about, you have to give yourself permission. So if you want success, you want to achieve, and I want you all to crack your mind open and be open to the idea of having massive success in your property management business. I don't know why you would want to suppress that anyway, right? So be open to the idea that a thousand doors would be a lot more fun, give you a lot more money and be a lot easier to do as a business owner, because you have a great team than doing a hundred doors. Right. And some of your dreams, like a hundred doors, I want you to 10x that. They need to go big, and we also got to hear Dr. Ben Hardy who wrote 10x is easier than 2x, which is a great book that I read. I really love that. So why don't you think 10x bigger, but give yourself permission to dream and the level of your ambition dream and set that level higher. Not to the level of other people's expectations. [00:05:32] And it talks about this in 10x and Eric Thomas touched about this, but it's the idea that a lot of times we are too afraid to just want, we're too afraid to just want something bigger. And so we feel almost guilty for wanting what we actually want or wanting something big. And so instead we hear this feedback from the world that says, "well, that's nuts. You don't need all that. You don't need a nice car. You don't really need a nice house. You don't need this." And that's other people's expectations. But that might not be what you want. And I really believe God puts desires in our heart for a reason. [00:06:06] Like, so the first question he asks is "what do you want?" Not what do other people want? Like, what do you really want? And whatever you want is okay. You get to want whatever you want. And then he asked, "why are you here? Why are you here?" And I've heard other coaches ask, what do you want and why does it matter? [00:06:23] But there needs to be a why. I like, "why are you here?" Because this speaks to your purpose. We have a purpose and what you want and your purpose are probably aligned in some way. Like having, you know, your dream life and being able to benefit others and have success. They're all interconnected. So, and he talks about three levels of want. [00:06:44] So I don't want to do all the talking. Do you want to talk about the three levels of want?  [00:06:48] Sarah: Yeah. Well, there's something too that I want to kind of add in because I've heard this my whole life and I've been different for a long time and I'm totally fine with being different. Like even, you know, elementary school, high school, like I've just always thought differently. [00:07:03] I've done things differently. I don't like fit in with like the popular kids. I'm weird. Yeah. I'm weird. And I'm really good with being weird, but sometimes people aren't. And especially when they're in school and they're young and everybody's like, "Oh no, you must conform and you must like fit in." [00:07:19] You spend your whole life trying to fit in when really you need to spend time trying to stand out, trying to be different. So, I've, like I said, I've always just done things a little differently. And a lot of times when I make a decision, you know, people will ask me like, why do you need that? [00:07:36] Why do you need that? You know? And I'm like, I don't need it. I want it. And that's been my answer every time. Like my whole life, you know, like I bought, so I refused to my very first home that I ever bought. I bought when I was 26. And until then I had just been renting, but I bought my very first home on my own by myself. [00:07:55] No help. I did have a mortgage. Yes, but like I didn't get money from my parents or like money from a spouse. Like it was me. I just did it. And I refused to buy a starter home. I was like, I am not going to buy a house that I want to live in for, you know, a year to three years and I'm going to just make it work. [00:08:15] And then I'm going to like upgrade and, you know, do the normal thing that people do. They're like, "Oh, I'll just start here and then I'll upgrade later." I refused to do that. And so I bought a home that I could live in for anywhere from like five to 10 years, I was like "I'm not doing this stupid game that people do." [00:08:33] So I just did what I needed to do in order to make that happen. And everybody was asking me like, well, "why are you doing that? Like, just buy a house that's smaller, just buy a house that's less expensive. Just do this. Just like, why do you need all that?" And I was like, "I don't need it. I don't need it. I want it, and it's okay to want big things and it's okay if the things that you want are not necessarily the same things that other people want." [00:09:01] So I really want to Mention that because I think we get this like pressure sometimes to conform to, you know, societal norms and just, you know, do just do what you're supposed to do. Just do the thing that everybody else does. And there's a lot of times I don't want to do the thing that everybody else does because it's not exciting. [00:09:22] So it's okay to like think outside of this box that everybody's trying to put you in. But anyway, so, there are three different levels of want. This is one of the things that he was kind of talking about is if you kind of want something and you're like, "Oh, that would be nice." Right. This is what I'm going to call like, "Hey, I'm like, I'm fantasizing" like, "Oh, it'd be nice if one day we could take this amazing vacation and go to Italy for like three weeks and like, you know, tour everything and like just like forget about all of our stresses at home. Oh, wouldn't it be nice if one day we lived in like a million dollar home? Wouldn't it be nice if one day I had a Maserati, right?" Like, and we all do this. Every person on the planet does this. [00:10:04] Like, "oh, it'd be really awesome. Like, this is like my dream life. Like if I could just snap my fingers and make something happen, like it'd be great if I lived in this mansion, right?" That's when you like, kind of want it. You're like you can think it, you can maybe say it out loud. [00:10:17] There's nothing solid behind that. You're just like speaking it out and you're like, "oh yeah, it'd be cool if this."  [00:10:23] Jason: Yeah. He said I can't, he says when you kind of want it, it's, but only if it isn't too difficult or inconvenient, I want it. That's how bad I want it. I want it enough that, yeah, it'd be nice, but only if it isn't too difficult or inconvenient. [00:10:38] That's the lowest level. What's the next level?  [00:10:41] Sarah: So then there's something when you really want it. Now, when you really want it versus when we kind of want it, when you really want it, you're like, "Hey, I'm going to do things, I'm going to make this happen, like I'm going to take some action, you know, I'm going to make some, maybe some choices a little bit differently." [00:10:58] This is like, "Hey, I'm going to take the thing that I want and I'm going to connect it to action." And that's, I think where most people live, is in this I really want it stage. They're like, "Hey, I really want to make this happen. Like, I'm going to start the business. I'm going to, you know, like make the calls. I'm going to reach out to people. I'm going to promote myself. I'm going to do what it takes." Right. "I'm going to do it." And I think this is where a lot of people think they live right here. You're like, "I'm doing the thing. Here I am like, I'm showing up, I'm doing the thing." Right. And I think what happens a lot of time is this is where we get comfortable because we're doing it. You're like, "I want to start a property management business." And then you did it and now you have clients and maybe you have a team and you've got like, right, you've got money coming in and you're like, "I did it. I did it." Yeah. Cool. Like first, are you dreaming big enough? Like did you started a property management business? [00:11:47] Maybe you have a couple of doors, maybe you have a hundred doors, maybe you've got 500 hours. Right. But are we thinking like as big as we should be or, and are we living in this like "I'm just kind of doing it" stage. Like I'm doing it. I want it. I wanted it. I really wanted it. I made it happen. And now here I am doing it. [00:12:03] And I think stage two and stage three are really different. And stage three is when the thing that you want is an absolute non negotiable thing. I don't remember if it was I don't remember if it was Eric or if it was Namaia. I don't remember which one it might've been. It might've been Namaia. [00:12:21] Jason: Eric is Namaia's mentor.  [00:12:22] Sarah: So yeah, they probably both said it, so, but one of them said, "listen, I have to do this. Like, I want to do it. I want to. Yeah, I want to. Like, I'm committed. I, like, I have the desire. I have the dream, but I also have to do this. I have an obligation to do this. And I have to do this because if I don't do this... he's like, I retired my mom. [00:12:44] I retired her. She's been retired for 10 years. If I don't do this, if I stop doing this, my mom has to go back to work and that can't happen is like, if I don't do this, my wife has to go get a job and that can't happen. If I don't do this, my kids see me quit and they see me stop and they see me playing small, and that can't happen. So when you want it so much so that it's an absolute non negotiable and you're willing to do anything that it takes, obviously ethically, anything that it takes until you get this thing and then you keep going That's I think a different level than like I just really want.  [00:13:25] Jason: So yeah Eric said that non negotiable level when you want what you want, like you want to breathe, then you'll have it. [00:13:34] And I thought about that. I mean, you have to want something pretty bad. I know what it feels like to want to breathe. Right. And I mean, that's serious desire. He then got into the three levels of why, cause we talked about why. And again, there's kinda, really, and non negotiable. [00:13:48] And you know, we have a motive and it's like, "well, I want, you know, kind of as maybe, well, it'd be nice to have some extra cash or whatever." That's not a big enough motive. Really want it, man. "I'm really hurting for cash right now, maybe," but non negotiable is like, "I 100 percent committed. I'm all in on this because this has to work. I have to make this happen. I feel calling inside myself. This is my purpose and I need to fulfill it. I need to achieve it. You know, no matter what the cost." there's always the one way that's going to get us there to make it work, and it's not going to be unethical. It's going to be the right way. And so I think focusing on what do you really want and figuring out what would be a non negotiable for you? Like I'm going to have this and what's a really solid why for some of you, like we were able to, I think last year, like a charity reached out and we donated like four grand to this charity to help, I don't know, homeless people or something. [00:14:46] And, you know, if I was in a financially difficult spot with cashflow in the business, and personally, I wouldn't be able to just drop money to charity like that and benefit a group, right? And as a company we wouldn't be able to do that. Are you able to benefit groups? Are you able to do good things for other people then you need to be making more money if you're not able to So find a way to justify success because success allows you contribution. [00:15:13] We talked about the four reasons: Freedom, fulfillment, contribution, and support. Contribution. You're able to make a bigger impact and a bigger difference if you have a successful healthy business. And one of the things that Eric said that I wrote down, he's a inspirational speaker, [00:15:29] and so he said, "I'm going to be the best inspirational speaker. I'm going to study it. I'm going to do whatever it takes. I'm going to speak before Kings and rulers, you know, I'm going to be the best." He said, "I refuse to be in an industry and not be one of the best in the industry." He said, "be great." So are you a kinda property manager or business owner or entrepreneur? [00:15:50] Are you like, you know, you really level or you non negotiable, you refuse to be in an industry and not be one of the best. You're going to be great. Like you've committed to being great. I've always had this commitment at DoorGrow. Sarah shares this with me. We've always had this commitment to being the best, and we believe we are the world leaders. [00:16:12] Nobody else has what we have in property management coaching. We're the best. And I'm committed to staying the best. And this is why we invest so much into the business. In terms of learning, investing in other masterminds, getting coaches, getting mentors. We spend more on that than other programs probably make, you know, other coaches probably make. [00:16:33] So you talked about three things that are necessary in order to like achieve what you want and have the success. And these three things, I recommend you write these down. First, you need desire. So we kind of talked about that. You have to really want it and you have to have a why and that's that, and then he said, you need an A team. [00:16:52] You need a really awesome team, like of A players. And then he said, you need a system. And what he shared these examples. He's like, Michael Jordan was, you know, an amazing basketball player. But until he got Phil Jackson as a coach, he was not able to play super well with others and he wasn't able to get championships. [00:17:11] He needed a system and Phil Jackson created a system that allowed Michael Jordan to win and succeed multiple times. But before then he was just getting lots of points, but he was not winning championships. He then talked about Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson needed a system and then he found Quincy Jones and started to have a ton of success. [00:17:32] And he shared some other examples. People need a system. And I got really excited when I heard this. I think I leaned over to you and said something. I think I was like, "we're the system." We are the system. I was like so excited. I'm like, that's us. We are the system! We just need to find the Michael Jordans and the Michael Jackson's out there. [00:17:52] Like the property managers that are like the greats, the ones that want to be great.  [00:17:57] Sarah: And can I say too, because I already know what's going through at least like three quarters of y'all's brains right now, they're going, "well, I'm better than everybody else in my market. So look, I am great." Yeah, and that's fantastic, right? [00:18:13] But if you're the best one in the market, and you might be, so I'm talking to you right now, because I was the best one in my market, hands down. There was like no competition but I was still playing really small. I got up to 260 doors because I was in that really want it. I wasn't in this, Hey, I'm like going to make this a non negotiable. [00:18:32] And I know, like, I was very aware. I knew where I was. Jason's like, you could make this a thousand door company if you wanted to. I know that I could, and it would have been really easy. I already know what I would have done. I could have doubled my business overnight and I know that. But I wasn't in this stage where it was a non negotiable. [00:18:47] So was I the best one in my market? Hands down, but am I really playing full out? No. And I knew I wasn't so if you're thinking like, yeah, but I am the, like, I am the greatest already. You might be but I think the one thing that I would say here because I realized this Actually when I was working at an insurance company, you can't compete with other people That is not don't and we all do this. [00:19:16] Like this is super common for us to do We go, "oh, well like my neighbor over there just got a new ferrari now I have to get a new ferrari." No, you compete against yourself. So every day you need to be better than you were yesterday. [00:19:29] That's the game you have to play. You can't worry about what your neighbors are doing, what your competition is doing and what other people in your market are doing. Who cares what they're doing? Let them do whatever they're doing and you worry about yourself. And if you are, you're like, "Oh, I'm already the greatest one in my market." [00:19:47] Fantastic. Then you got to keep going. So if you're the greatest one in your market like me and I was at 260 doors, don't stop at 260 doors. Don't be like, "oh, I already did it. Like look at me." Keep going. So at 260 doors, double that and then double it again And when you're really on this path, like that is how you become really great. [00:20:10] Don't just say like, "Oh, I'm already the best in my market. So I'm there." You have not arrived yet.  [00:20:15] Jason: So I think those listening, I mean, you know, deep down whether your business is great or not. Whether you're really delivering the level of service and you know there's flaws. You know you're not at that great level yet. [00:20:29] And to Sarah's credit, she was running a really effective business. I mean, you had 60 percent plus profit margin and you were part time. She's flexing here. So, but she fell in love with coaching clients at DoorGrow. She was like part time and she was like, "Hey," and she fell in love with something that she then really wanted to be great at. [00:20:50] Here's the thing. You need to know who you are, ET talked about this. You need to know who you are and you need to become great. Not just the best in your market, if the bar is really low, but you need to become where, you know, deep down is great. And that level you know, Ben Hardy, who wrote the 10X is easier than 2X said the only person that knows your potential, that's between you and God and everyone else might say, "Oh, what you're doing is amazing. It's great." But you might know if there's more and no one else is going to be able to set that higher bar than yourself. You need to know what great is and decide what that looks like, and you need to become great. And what he said when you become great, the system that you need will come like Michael Jordan invested and became great. And then you're The right people were attracted to him. He found Phil Jackson, right? Michael Jackson found Quincy Jones, right? Then when you become great, you will, then the system will come. [00:21:44] The system is out there. It's available and you will find the right system. And then once you have the system that you need, then you can leverage greatness. Then you can really leverage that greatness and truly showcase your greatness. And you don't have to be the most talented if you got the right system. You don't have to be the smartest [00:22:04] if you have the right system, you don't need to be different, you just need be a better version of yourself and compete with yourself. And you know, that's it. You just really need the right system. And I got excited because at DoorGrow, we've built the system. We built the system for the best property managers. [00:22:22] That was our intention. And I was really excited because I'm like, "we're the system! We've got the system." We just need to find those that really want to be great. And so I'm challenging everyone listening. I want you to want to be great, but you've got to want it. No one else is going to do it for you. [00:22:35] And Sarah wants me to wrap up. You want me to wrap up? We'll wrap up. So only you can do the work, but doing it alone is a choice. That's what he said. So find he had this scripture. He said, find a man that's diligent at what he does. And he will stand before Kings. Nothing can stop you. [00:22:51] Only you can stop you. You owe you. And then he said, he had people chanting, "I can, I will, I must." And so when you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you will be wildly successful. And we would love to be part of that journey. I'm a conductor with my pencil. All right. I'm just getting excited. [00:23:12] I'm going to poke somebody in the eye here.  [00:23:13] Sarah: It's going to be me.  [00:23:16] Jason: "It's going to be me." All right. So anyway, reach out the DoorGrow. We would love to support you. And until next time to our mutual growth, bye everyone. [00:23:25] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:23:51] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

If you have ever gone to big, in-person coaching events, masterminds, or conferences, you've probably come back to your team with a TON of ideas you want to implement.  In this episode, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull talk about how to bring new ideas back to your business and implement them without totally overwhelming your team. You'll Learn [01:22] Why we invest in coaching ourselves [05:47] New ideas take time to implement [09:37] You need better hooks! [10:39] How to avoid overwhelming your team with new ideas [17:54] The best live event for property managers Tweetables “People give up long before they get results in anything.” “If you quit before you get the results, it's never going to work.” “You can guarantee failure if you stop.” “We grossly underestimate the amount of work that people put into something to achieve success or to get a result.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: It's difficult because we come back from an event and then we pull the pin on a grenade and throw it into the middle of the room with our team. We're like, "Hey, here's this really exciting thing!" And it's exciting for us. But for them, they're like, "I already have all this work that I'm expected to do, and you want to like change everything now?"  [00:00:19] Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently then you are a DoorGrow property manager. DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. [00:00:44] Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. [00:01:00] We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, along with Sarah Hull, co owner and COO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show. All right. So we just got back from doing what?  [00:01:25] Sarah: We went to two events back to back, which is a little crazy, but we did it. So we went to a Mastermind right outside of Nashville, Tennessee. And right after that, we went to a big event down in Orlando. It's Funnel Hacking Live. [00:01:41] So we were gone for like a whole week.  [00:01:45] Jason: Yeah, a whole week of travel and events and how'd you like it?  [00:01:50] Sarah: I loved it. So it was a lot in a short amount of time especially with the travel. So we did four cities in three days. So that was kind of crazy, but it was really great. [00:02:02] And then it was funny because we did our mastermind event and right after that, then we went to Funnel Hacking Live, and on the way to, and like from both of these events, we were then watching like an online course from Alex Hormozi. So it was just like information overload.  [00:02:21] Jason: Yeah so much. We have a lot of ideas. We do. We took a lot of notes. We have a lot of notes, a lot of ideas, and it can be a bit overwhelming. A lot of you probably feel like that when you go to events. You get a lot of ideas, a lot of stuff. And so we talked about how we need, like when we have some space, because we're getting caught up in all the work that we missed and everybody needing us. [00:02:45] We need to block out at least a day or two to really just digest all of the stuff that we got and to prioritize it and figure out where's this going to fit in with what we're doing. So for you, what are some of the key takeaways that you got that you feel like you are motivated to work on as a result of all the stuff that we just downloaded? [00:03:07] Sarah: Well, there's so many things I think if I were to have to choose right now and prioritize, I think probably like building my own personal brand would be on the top of the list. And doing the thing that I hate the most, which is social media. Yay. I hate social media so much. I just hate it, but it's a thing that you've got to do, I guess. [00:03:31] Jason: Yeah. So a lot of people I think make the mistake of trying to build up the business brand on social media. Which generally is a lot less effective because people want to interact with people and most of the people that you follow are not a business, they're a person, right? And so I think that's one of the things that took away too, is I need to really focus on building up my personal brand. [00:03:54] You need to focus on building up your personal brand and those two personal brands combined, you know, if we're focused on a business brand can feed that, but really, people want to connect with people. And so I've been really putting a lot more effort into short form video, cranking out a lot more content so that I can build a bigger and bigger following. [00:04:14] And the one thing that really stuck out to me related to that is the importance of consistency and doing a piece of content every single day, rain or shine and so this is something we're trying to get in place so that we can crank out something every single day.  [00:04:34] Sarah: Every day. So I'm going to go from not doing social media to doing social media every day. It sounds horrible. [00:04:44] Jason: Yeah. And I mean, from the first event we went to, one of the things that I took away is I need to go live a lot more often I need to be really contributing and adding value to our free Facebook group, which if you're a property manager, make sure you're in it. DoorGrowClub.Com and just providing value and not being so worried about everything looking perfect. [00:05:08] You know, one of our mentors, he's just like driving, he's in a t shirt, like he just goes live in that group all the time. But then also putting out like nicely branded content on short form videos, something that I took away from the Funnel Hacking Live event that we went to, and putting that out every single day. [00:05:26] And they showed these examples, right, of, you know, women and men that had done something every single day for a year, and how things just started to explode. Yeah. Eventually, once the algorithm learned they were going to be there, and they had a topic, and they were consistent, and they started to build an audience, then they started to get featured, and then they started to explode. [00:05:47] Sarah: And then also, the other thing, too, is there are a few examples of this, where I don't remember which girl it was, maybe it was Jodi, maybe Jodi, I don't remember, but she was saying "Well, my brother was going to start this business and then he started doing social media content and then he stopped and I had asked him like, 'Hey, how are things going?' [00:06:04] And he's like, 'ah, yeah, I stopped doing that.'" And she said, "well, what do you mean you stopped?" And he's like, "no, I didn't, it didn't work. Nothing happened from it." And he had only done it for a very short period of time, so he gave up. And I think that's what happens is people give up long before they get results in anything. [00:06:23] And it's not just social media it's oftentimes in anything, you know, they're, you know, trying to make relationships with investors or with other real estate agents or their neighbor property managers you know, and they're like, "well, it didn't work, you know, I called, you know, I sent 500 emails and I did, you know, 100 calls and it didn't work." [00:06:40] Yeah. And then if you quit before you get the results, it's never going to work, right? So you can guarantee failure if you stop.  [00:06:48] Jason: Yeah. I think one of the things I realized is that we grossly underestimate the amount of work that people put into something to achieve success or to get a result. And so, like, we learned this watching one of the Hormozi videos. [00:07:06] He was talking about the sample size sometimes is just too small. He was like, " I did 300 flyers and I didn't get any calls." and he said, how many, did the guy do a day? 5,000. He's like, "I do 5,000 a day." He did 3,000 one time, like in a month. And he was like, "oh. This is what I thought was required. It's actually this."  [00:07:27] Sarah: Think about it, like if you're doing 300, if you contact 300 people, yeah, did you tap out your market? And the answer to that is probably no. Are there more than 300 investors in your market? I bet there are. [00:07:39] Are there more than 300 real estate agents where you are? Unless you're in a tiny little podunk town like I was, you probably are.  [00:07:47] Jason: Yeah, so that's something that really stood out to me is I'm not doing enough. And so the level of work and the level of commitment that some of these entrepreneurs had in their businesses. [00:07:59] really created some contrast for me. I was like, "wow, I'm not doing that." So what did I do? Like we're back. It was Monday yesterday. And I was like, all right, I got up at like four in the morning 4:30 in the morning. And I just worked on connecting and reaching out to a hundred people. So I sent out like a hundred voice messages to Instagram followers. [00:08:23] That's my goal is to just crank out connecting to a hundred people every day and just do this. And that will create some connection and that will start to build stuff up. And if I put in the reps doing that, and then maybe get some support, I also challenged my team, like, see if you can reach out to a hundred people each day. [00:08:43] So we'll see if we start to see some results. And I already started having conversations just from the initial outreach. So if I just do that every day, that should have a significant impact on the business and it compounds over time. And so then I'm also cranking out a lot more videos like this morning, you know, I'm took my daughter to school. On the way back where I'm not having to listen to Taylor Swift or I listen to her talk about Taylor Swift and tell me all the, like, theories and ideas about Taylor Swift. Like what's her cat's name. Right, like, all this stuff about Taylor Swift because she's like a Taylor Swift fanatic. [00:09:17] Like, as soon as she's out of the car, I started recording videos while I'm driving. So then I have some, like, I've got my phone, I know how to get home, so, like, It's recording videos and I'm just talking about some different things. Hardest is sometimes just think, what should I talk about? So sometimes I'm asking chat GPT, like, "what should I talk about?" [00:09:34] You know, And generating some prompts. And another thing that I learned about, or that really kind of sunk in a little more effectively was the idea of having hooks. A lot of people think they have a lead problem or a lead magnet problem or a lead gen problem. And really what Steven Larson, a friend of mine mentioned is you really just have a hook problem. [00:10:03] You just don't have a good hook to capture people's attention in the first three to five seconds, that hook on a phone call matters on your marketing matters more than anything else. And so not having a good hook in the beginning can really cause you to lose a lot of money if you're spending money on advertising. [00:10:21] So I'm now trying to be more conscious of the hook at the beginning of my videos that I'm creating and being more effective at creating hooks that capture attention or that are a pattern interrupt to get people to pay attention. Because if I don't do that. It doesn't matter how good the content is. [00:10:39] Sarah: So I think one of the other things too is, and this happens every time we've seen it over and over again with our clients too, is they'll come, they'll go, especially one of our events because we jam pack stuff. So they'll come to one of the events and then they're like, "yeah, but I have so many great ideas. I don't know how to implement all of it." Or they're like, "yeah, but I don't know if my team will go for that. Like, I want to do that, but like, I just don't know if my team is going to go for that." And I think it's really common when someone goes to an event and they were there. So they had that experience. They saw everything they experienced at all. Like it sunk in, it hit them and they're like, "oh yeah, like it's super clear to me why we have to do this." And then they want to come back and they want to change things in the business and their team didn't have that same experience. Yeah, so the team wasn't at the event. [00:11:27] The team is like, "hey, we're just holding down the fort while you're out, you know, doing this event," and then you come back like a crazy person and you're like "guys, we're going to change the whole business model! We're going to start doing things like this. We're going to do things like this instead and we're going to do all of this and I got all these great ideas and here's what we're going to do!" And the team was like, "what are you talking about? Why?" Like You come in hot like a crazy person. And I think there's kind of a better way to approach it. The one of the things I think that's really helpful. Is having some sort of strategic planning system like we use DoorGrow OS. That's our operating system. It's also available for you guys. If you're interested, it's like 97 bucks a month but it's a really great planning system so that instead of coming back with like 20,000 ideas and going, "yeah, I'm going to implement all of them." [00:12:15] Realistically, you're not. Realistically, there are going to be things that are going to be priority and they take precedence and then there are going to be things that maybe you never do. And they're going to be things that you want to do, but they're going to be way down the line. And you need to really find a way to like organize all of this stuff and then prioritize. [00:12:32] What are we actually going to do right now? Like, what would be the biggest thing that we could do right now to move the business forward? So something like that would help and having your team involved in that is a really great way to make sure that your team is actually bought in Instead of you coming back and coming like "hey, we're going to do this. We're going to do that this, and we're changing this and we're like going to hire these people and maybe we're going to fire, you know, John over there." Then the team is like "whoa!" like they feel like railroaded because they didn't have the same experience that you had. [00:13:03] So having a meeting, we're going to do this to o, having a meeting with your team and just sharing the ideas. And you're not saying, "we're going to do this." All you're doing is just sharing the ideas that you learned. And that way it's like, "hey guys, I like, I learned this really cool thing and it kind of sparked an idea. I'd like to talk about that and see if it makes sense. Like, what do you guys think about this?" And that way you're involving your team in it instead of just saying, "we're going to do this." And they're like, "oh, I don't want to do that." We have to keep in mind that people don't like change. Change is scary. [00:13:37] It's different. It's like you're getting them outside of their comfort zone and outside of their box. But if they're part of the conversation, and they feel like they have input, and like their opinion in the whole discussion actually matters and counts for something, they'll be a lot more bought in to whatever ideas you actually decide to implement and move forward with. [00:13:59] Jason: Yeah, I think that's really important. It's difficult because we come back from an event and then we pull the pin on a grenade and throw it into the middle of the room with our team. We're like, "Hey, here's this really exciting thing!" And it's exciting for us. But for them, they're like, "I already have all this work that I'm expected to do, and you want to like change everything now?" And so our team members, they're not entrepreneurs for a reason, right? They want a job that gives them safety and security. They want peace. And we get a kick out of innovating, doing new things, changing stuff a lot of times. And we have this big picture vision and we're risk takers to start a business. [00:14:38] We're cowboys and cowgirls. We're wild, right? And that can really be disruptive to the business if we don't get them gently to buy into the vision. And there's a way to do that, right? We do that through DoorGrow OS and through how we plan here at DoorGrow. You and I will probably talk about a bunch of ideas. [00:14:57] We've already been talking a ton about all these different ideas that we got and all the things we could implement, all the things that we can do. And then we can figure out what we want to prioritize before we just go bombard the team with everything. And then we have a cadence of planning. So the things that do matter to us, we can start to mix into our cadence of planning, but there's a lot of things that we got from this that you and I can just take action on right away. Yeah. Without messing with the team at all. But it doesn't impact the team in any way, well, maybe inadvertently, but if I just start creating a whole bunch more videos, right? That's my time or I can spend.. [00:15:36] Sarah: Madi will hear this and be like, "really it doesn't affect the team?"  [00:15:39] Jason: Yeah, I know. My daughter who does the video editing and social media. [00:15:43] Madi, I'm with you.  [00:15:44] She'll be editing this episode and saying "right, right"  [00:15:48] Sarah: Her face yesterday. Yeah. You're like, "I want to do a short form video every day," and she goes like, "every day? Like every...?" And she's like, "how soon are we going to do that?" And he's like, "as soon as possible."  [00:15:58] Jason: That was kind of a grenade. Yeah. And that may mean you, you need to build out the team a little bit. Maybe we need additional people, who knows, but.  [00:16:05] Sarah: So I think one of the things too that Aaron pointed out in the first part of our mastermind event that we went to is. Your team really needs consistency and your team needs to know that who they're working for is like, you're a safe bet because there's a lot of jobs out there. [00:16:24] They can go work for just about anyone, and they're with you. They need to trust you to of course, change things and move things forward but do so in a way that doesn't completely disrupt, you know, their sense of safety. So doing things slower than probably we would want to do them is really important, right? [00:16:48] Because then if you come back and you just. Yep it's a great analogy, just throwing the grenade in. It's, that is not safe. That is not steady. That is not slow. That's like, "hey, we went to this event, we were gone for a week, and in the week we decided to change everything about the business." The team's like, "what?" [00:17:06] that means every time that you go to an event, your team is going to be panicked. Your team is going to panic. They're going to go, "oh god. They're going somewhere again. Oh crap. Now what?" And if we have this kind of sense of like impeding doom in the business then you can implement all of the ideas or none of the ideas or just one it won't even matter what you do because your team, they need to be bought in and they need to feel safe, so that they're on board with actually doing things However you're going to do them, it doesn't matter, but if you don't have the support of the team, and you aren't doing a good job at holding the, like, a good container for them, then you're not doing yourself any favors. [00:17:51] Jason: Yeah, good stuff. Well, we have an event that's coming up in May. Which will be DoorGrow live. So people have plenty of time to get ready for this. So if you want to be part of An event where you get a bunch of ideas and you can get a grenade to throw at your team, I'm joking, then make sure you come to our DoorGrow live event It's it really is an awesome event.  [00:18:15] Okay, cool. Well, let's go ahead and wrap this up. So if you are a property management entrepreneur and you're wanting to add doors and you're wanting to grow your business and you're wanting to figure out operations because adding doors is starting to get uncomfortable for you, either of those issues, we can help you. Reach out to us at DoorGrow. [00:18:33] And until next time to our mutual growth. Bye everyone.  [00:18:37] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:19:04] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

At DoorGrow, we have organized our clients into Tribes to provide them with connections, community, and support. In today's episode, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull quickly talk about the importance of having these kinds of connections and being socially active as a property management entrepreneur. You'll Learn [01:16] Why we created DoorGrow Tribes [03:08] Find people on your same path [04:54] The neighbor strategy [06:04] In-person events for property managers Tweetables “You go faster together.” “It's really surprising to me how many property management business owners do not know anybody else that does property management.” “You need somebody you can look up to somebody that's ahead of you.” “The in-between moments at conferences, events where you get to connect with people, make friends are probably the most impactful.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: It's really surprising to me how many property management business owners do not know anybody else that does property management. [00:00:07] They don't really have a relationship or friendship. They're not connected.  [00:00:13] All right. Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. [00:00:33] DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not, because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:00:53] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, along with Sarah Hull, co owner and COO of DoorGrow. [00:01:16] Now let's get into the show. All right, today's topic, we were chatting about what we should talk about, and we're about to head out on a trip. Where are we going?  [00:01:25] Sarah: We are going to Salt Lake City, Utah. And what are we doing? We're doing a tribe event with our clients.  [00:01:31] Jason: Okay. She's excited.  [00:01:33] Sarah: I am so excited. This is our first one. We're kicking it off live.  [00:01:36] Jason: All right. So we've organized our clients into tribes because we've got this awesome, amazing mastermind, and we wanted people to be able to get to know each other because this Is really important. The in between moments at conferences, events where you get to connect with people, make friends are probably the most impactful and maybe even profit evoking in like instances in interactions that you have at the entire event a lot of times. And so we want to really facilitate those for our clients and get them connected and get them creating some relationships. So we're going to be doing something fun. We are. Yeah. So what's the agenda? Why don't we tell them?  [00:02:15] Sarah: Yeah. So we're just hanging out. We're spending a full day together. So our clients decided where we were going. We had all of our clients submit their ideas for a location and then what we're doing when we're there, like some sort of activity. And then everyone voted and this was the one with the most votes. So off we go. So we are going hiking in Little Cottonwood Canyon.  [00:02:37] Jason: Okay. Yeah. And I hear it's beautiful. So it's going to be awesome. So we're going to see that. Everybody's going to be mixing a little bit of business in there and we're going to be having some good conversations and my intention while I'm there is just to benefit everybody that shows up as much as I can as coach. Right. And I'm sure that's Sarah's goal as well.  [00:02:56] And we've got to go catch a flight. So we're going to keep this really brief. It's going to be a short episode. So, why is it important to have a tribe or to have friends or to have connections in your industry as an entrepreneur?  [00:03:08] Sarah: Oh, it's so important, and in fact, studies have shown that this is arguably the most important thing that you can do so that you can be successful in your business and in your growth and in your life is just be connected to other people who are working on similar things and like on a similar path and they're growth minded. And a lot of people unfortunately don't have that. [00:03:34] So we provide that in our mastermind.  [00:03:37] Jason: A lot of you have heard the phrase, they say that you're the sum of the five people that you spend the most time with, and I think this is true in property management, your business and your relationship with your business will be the sum of the five property management business owners that you are the most connected to. [00:03:53] And so somebody they can also support. You know, you need these relationships. You need somebody you can look up to somebody that's ahead of you, and we definitely have people that are ahead of others in our mastermind, and then you want people that are on the same path as you, because a lot of the people, like if you've got 200 doors and you're trying to hang around people with a thousand doors, yes, you'll learn some stuff. [00:04:12] But also the game's changed. And the things that you need to do right now to grow your business are different than how they grew their business probably 10, 20 years ago, some of these guys or gals, right? And so you need to be doing what's current. And a lot of times they're watching you to see what the next thing is or they use you as the guinea pig. [00:04:30] They don't want to make big sweeping changes or mistakes. Small companies, you're more nimble. You get to experiment. You get to do cool new things. And we do a lot of cool new things at DoorGrow with our clients. And so you need at least five friends. And it's really surprising to me how many property management business owners do not know anybody else that does property management. [00:04:51] They don't really have a relationship or friendship. They're not connected. And we've been focused on this strategy of the neighbor strategy. Which you can check out by going to neighborstrategy. Com. If you'd like to get access to this free training, it's really cool. And it gets you connected to your neighbors. [00:05:07] And it helps you both make more money and get each other more business. It's a no brainer. It's one of our favorite growth strategies. And we've got two of our clients are in the Salt Lake area and they've been handing business back and forth to each other. One does focus on more on focuses more on short term, one focuses more long term and they've been feeding each other business using this neighbor strategy. [00:05:30] And it's not just sending business back and forth. It's a little bit deeper than that. And I teach you how to convert cold leads that might come in that you can field for or give to other people into a 90 percent close rate, warm lead. And so check this training out. You want to give this to all of your neighbors, get them to do it, and you're going to make a lot more money and they're just going to feed you business. [00:05:49] Warm leads, 90 percent close rate, easy stuff to close. Really cool. So go out and get some neighbors and maybe join the DoorGrow mastermind and get into our tribe groups and start coming to our events and make some connections. Anything else we need to say about it?  [00:06:04] Sarah: I don't think so. I think we're excited about all of the things that we're doing cause we're rolling out a couple of different styles of events. [00:06:11] Of course we're keeping our main one, our DoorGrow live. We're going to do that once a year. It'll be every May. So mark your calendars. It'll be every May. And then in the meantime, in the interim, like for our clients, we want to provide an opportunity for at least once a quarter for us to get together, like in person. [00:06:28] So the DoorGrowLive will always be an Austin. The tribe events, it's like once a quarter, we have the opportunity to just get some face time and get some time around each other. [00:06:38] And I feel like every time we do an event like this, the group that attends, they're just so bonded and it's like awesome to see. So we did an event back in. April and then in May we had our DoorGrow live and a lot of the people who attended our April event also attended DoorGrow live and they were like their own little like pod of people. [00:06:59] They were messaging each other like in the old group and. Because you just get so like, comfortable around each other and it allows you to really like create a relationship and a connection that's not on the screen because that's like the thing now everybody's like, "Oh, I like, this is how I socialize with people is on a screen," that it's not like genuine real connection. [00:07:19] Like it's very different when you're like face to face with someone and you can. Like feel their energy. That's really hard. Unless you're Roya Mattis, that's really hard to do through a screen.  [00:07:29] Jason: Cool. All right. So make sure you start getting around some property managers and get connected to some business owners because as entrepreneurs, we kind of isolate. [00:07:38] We feel alone a lot of times, especially in the early stages of our entrepreneurial journey. Eventually you realize the fastest way forward is to be connected. It's masterminds, it's coaches. It's getting connected with other people. It's allowing other ideas. It's not all available on YouTube and reading a book and stuff you can just do on your own. [00:07:57] Right? You go faster together. So let's get together. So that's our message today. And until next time to our mutual growth, check us out at DoorGrow.com. We would love to support you and your growth and move you through the DoorGrow code. If you go there, there's a free training. If you click the pink button on the homepage and you can learn all about what we do, how it can help you grow, book a call with our team and watch a whole bunch of testimonials and case studies of people that are scaling the shit out of their businesses. So we'll talk to hopefully you soon because you deserve this and you should be moving your business forward and should stop feeling frustrated, tired, and drained by your business. This should be fun. You should be making a lot of money. All right. That's enough. Talk to you soon. [00:08:39] Bye everyone. [00:08:40] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:09:07] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

On this episode of The DEB Show, host Debra Eckerling talks about Creating Courses with Course Creation Expert Nancy Giere and Business Growth & Marketing Strategist Jason Van Orden. Nancy and Jason share the why and how of creating courses, what stops people from taking and creating courses (hint: part of it is overwhelm), and more. Why Create Courses? How Do Books Fit In? - Jason: You can take your intellectual property farther - Nancy: Most people need to have a course and a book. You want to bundle your brilliance in different ways - Nancy: The more ways you engage, the more people you can serve - Jason: It's helpful to have course ideas in mind when you are writing a book. You can build into your book different ways to communicate with your readers The First Steps - Jason: Know who your course is for and what is the outcome? Be specific. - Nancy: Identify what are they going to be able to do/know/feel after they complete your course – what's the transformation? It will give you, the creator, focus - Jason: Break it down into meaningful milestones. Milestones = lessons - Nancy: Also decide if it's a course or courses? More Tips - Jason: Use the tech and tools you already have: Zoom, Google docs - Nancy: Test your content in a format that's easy to change. And invest in a good microphone and lighting - Nancy: Make your videos as concise as possible. Pre-write the content. A teleprompter keeps you on point. - Jason: Sometimes you can create course materials where you are not on camera Goals - Jason: Do customer discovery interviews, when you have that information, it makes everything else so much easier - Nancy: Look at what you already have to see where you can mine for content for your course. You can also look at AI for content ideas. Think of AI as you assistant; a starting point. Final Thoughts - Jason: You are someone's playlist. There's something about you and what you provide that will draw the right people toward you - Nancy: Often times with music, fans start by loving a single song and then see what else the musician offers. Think about what individual course you can create that will bring your audience to you and get everything started Learn more about: Nancy Giere: https://nancygiere.com Jason Van Orden: https://jasonvanorden.com Debra Eckerling: https://TheDEBMethod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Michael Sullivan is a property management entrepreneur who has grown his business to 275 doors. Join property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull as they chat with former DoorGrow client Michael Sullivan to learn about his experience starting and growing a property management business. You'll Learn [01:44] Getting started in the property management industry [07:49] Growing a property management business [24:01] Having support and feeling fulfilled in the business [28:13] Growing and scaling to the next level Tweetables “To go faster, you need to invest the currency of cash if you want to get more of the other currencies and to get the business to the next level.” “If you're not making mistakes, you're not learning.” “A lot of us business owners, we have a bit of ego.” “Being an entrepreneur can be one can be very lonely, and it is really important to have people in the same industry kind of in your village.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: To go faster, you need to invest the currency of cash. If you want to get more of the other currencies and to get the business to the next level. Welcome DoorGrow hackers to the DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently then you are a DoorGrow hacker. DoorGrow hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management, growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, along with Sarah Hull, the co owner and CEO of DoorGrow. [00:01:09] Now let's get into the show and our guest today is Michael L Sullivan. Michael Sullivan is here hanging out with us. He is a client of ours and of Sullivan property management. Did I say that right? MLS ullivan property management. All right, your initials. Got it. And Michael, welcome to the show.  [00:01:33] Michael: Thank you. Thank you very much. Good to be here.  [00:01:36] Jason: We're glad to have you. So we've really enjoyed having you in our program and it's been really amazing seeing your progress. So maybe to kick things off, let's start with talking about how you got into this crazy industry of property management. Like you woke up when you were like maybe five years old and said "property management is the thing for me" maybe. [00:01:57] Michael: Yeah, like every little boy and girl, dreams about being a real estate agent or a property manager.  [00:02:03] Jason: It's right there next to veterinarian and firefighter. [00:02:06] Michael: I think that's right. That's right or professional baseball player so, I left the teaching profession in 1993 and became a real estate agent, a general brokerage real estate agent here in the Greater Research Triangle region of North Carolina, and I did very well. I, on average, sold anywhere between 5 and 15 million dollars worth of real estate when our average sale price was $150,000. Yeah, we were shifting a lot of shacks, and it was a good life. And for the 15 or so years between 1993 and the Great Recession of 2007, 2008, my biggest fear was, "what is going to happen when the market flips?" Because inevitably, real estate flips. It goes from a boom market to a bust market, a buyer's market to a seller market. And so during those years, I socked away cash. When the market crashed in 2008, I had an inventory of 40 general brokerage homes that were for sale. I had clients that were still moving to Massachusetts or Plano, Texas, or Austin, or Seattle, you know, to the other tech hubs in the United States and my clients were like, "All right, problem solver, what are you going to do because we still have to move?" And I was like, "we're going to rent them." And so with an Excel spreadsheet and time, because I had lots of time then I started managing property and in the first year, our goal was 30 homes and we had 50 and it was me and one part time assistant and an Excel spreadsheet. Well, after about 18 months, that didn't work anymore. So I went out and I found what I thought was a reasonable property management software. And then over the course of the next decade or so, we got up to 110 properties or so and things were good, you know, we were chugging along and profits were good, but I really didn't know what I didn't know, I kind of. [00:04:22] Believe that once you had an Appfolio or a Buildium on board that you had won the day and that your business was set and you know, it should be easy. And I soon discovered when I got to 115 doors and just kind of got stuck there that the business wasn't growing the way it should be. And I couldn't figure out why. I was on Facebook one day. And there was this guy, Jason Hull, talking about this company called DoorGrow. And so I did the click, click, clickety click. And then I started listening to some of his podcasts and I started researching DoorGrow and I thought, " huh, this guy knows a whole lot about this industry and maybe this is someone I need to engage with." and so that's how I came to DoorGrow about two and a half years ago, I think.  [00:05:21] Jason: And now you're on one, you're on one of the podcasts.  [00:05:24] Michael: I know.  [00:05:25] Jason: So what challenges did you start to realize you were dealing with at the time? Because generally, you've made a ton of changes in your business since working with us, and you know, it's been impressive to watch. What do you feel like were your challenges at that time? Like, what did you not know that you did not know? So  [00:05:43] Michael: I knew that there were currencies in a business, but I didn't know that there were five of them. And I knew that I was working really hard. So the currency of effort was there. Yeah, my bank account showed me that the currency of cash was there. Yeah, the currency of focus was really lacking because I was still doing a lot of general brokerage and still trying to do property management. The focus of energy was lacking. Because it was draining me kind of going in these different directions. And then there was a lack of time. I didn't have time to take off. I didn't have time to turn it off because it was me and an assistant property manager at that time, I was still doing all of the day to day operations and the round pegs in the round holes work. And figuring out those currencies and how to better divide them and focus on them was one of the things that I didn't know and that once I could put a name to it and once I could focus on fixing where there was a deficiency, then I kind of won the battle. I felt, you know, before you launched all of your different systems to help property managers, I listened to you and I went out and got Lead Simple. I went out and got Property Meld and kind of brought them into the fold. And I recognize that those tools, which you paid dearly for using these outside vendors, really bring you a wealth of time that didn't exist before. So I was able to capture that currency and by extension, the currency of effort was able to kind of tamp down because I had systems now in place to deal with the endless maintenance requests that having a practice that. Goes up over a hundred percent in growth is going to require.  [00:07:48] Jason: So let's talk about that growth. You had mentioned you'd gotten up to maybe, where were you when you started with DoorGrow?  [00:07:56] 118. [00:07:58] 118. Okay.  [00:07:59] And where are you at right now?  [00:08:01] Michael: 275.  [00:08:03] Jason: I mean, it sounds like you had pretty decent profit margin before. Well, what was that? If you don't mind sharing, what is it? [00:08:09] Michael: So, on a gross per door basis, when I joined DoorGrow, we were right at about $122 a door per month. Yeah. And today we're up. $153 and 82 cents per door per month.  [00:08:26] Jason: That's very specific. So, you know, your numbers, which is good.  [00:08:30] Michael: Well I try. Yeah. And year over year revenue increases from last year is up 58.7%.  [00:08:36] Jason: Wow. That's awesome. So money's up. So the cash currency has improved the focus currency. Have you been able to do less in the business and narrow your focus?  [00:08:48] Michael: Yes. So Saturday is my benchmark. I call it my Zen day. And if Saturday can be a Zen day for me, where I don't feel like I have tasks that I have to accomplish, that I can do the things that I want to do, still working on the business, not in the business, then I feel like the week has been a win. If I feel like there are pressing tasks that I have to work on within the business on Saturday, then I feel like the week has not been a win. So if Saturday is Zen, if I come into it feeling very kind of centered and relaxed, then I feel like things are in balance the way they should be. [00:09:34] Jason: So what percent profit margin are you operating at now?  [00:09:37] Michael: So coming into this year 2022, we were at 27 percent profit margin, but a lot of that was really underpinned by very robust general brokerage sales. I made a concerted effort this year to pour gasoline on the fire to really grow the business. The goal is to be over 300 doors by the end of the year. So we're 25 away. Nice. I'm pretty sure we're going to make that, you know, that goal. But our profit margin right now is at. 11 and a half, 11 and three quarters percent. So it's down substantially, but that was deliberate.  [00:10:14] Jason: Got it. And is deliberate because  [00:10:18] Michael: why? [00:10:18] Because we're making an investment in people. We're making an investment in systems and we're making an investment in things like vehicles and computers and marketing.  [00:10:30] Jason: Yeah. So I think that's an important thing for business owners to recognize that. To go faster, you need to invest the currency of cash if you want to get more of the other currencies and to get the business to the next level. And you can grow faster if you have thinner margins, which can feel a little more dangerous. And you know, if you're investing into the growth of the business and into the future, but you know how to add doors, so this isn't a concern for you. [00:10:57] Michael: It isn't. My bookkeeper and my accountant were a little apoplectic until I told them like, this is where we're going. And what I said to my bookkeeper was before the great depression of 1929, Ford motor company was the preeminent motor car company in the world. They had an amazing market share. Then the stock market crashed and the economy tanked and Ford circled the wagons, folded their tents and got very conservative. They scaled back. General Motors, by extension, said, "ah," and they saw it as an opportunity and they poured gasoline on the fire. And for the next 70 years, General Motors was the dominant car company in the world. And so I kind of am using that model.  [00:11:47] Jason: Yeah. So, now a lot of people listening to this might think, well, cool, I can get Property Meld, I can do something, you know, get something like Lead Simple, or we have a better tool now, which is DoorGrow Flow. " I can go and get tools and maybe I can do it on my own." Because I think this is the challenge. A lot of us business owners, we have a bit of ego. " I've made a lot of mistakes in the past and we think I can do it myself. Maybe if I watch enough YouTube videos, listen to enough podcast episodes, I can figure it all out on my own. I don't need DoorGrow or I don't need it." Like, so what would you say to people that listening to this or thinking that?  [00:12:22] Michael: So I would say to them, when I think back to me and one assistant and 115, 110 doors and good profit margins. You know, and a good life. I was in a really kind of felt very isolated and very alone I didn't have other friends or colleagues in the property management space that I could talk to. I felt like I was the only person in the world that was doing this, and once I joined DoorGrow and made very valuable, long lasting friends within the organization that I can call on off hours to discuss specific problems related to property management, that burden of feeling on my own and alone disappeared. Being an entrepreneur can be one can be very lonely, and it is really important to have people in the same industry kind of in your village. And that's why that's 1 of the benefits of joining DoorGrow is that I can call friends in Texas, Idaho, Pennsylvania, California and say, "hey, I've got this going on. What do you think?"  [00:13:40] Jason: Yeah, and I think you know, that's a testament to you is that you've been such a contributor that in the mastermind that it's allowed you to connect with all of these people, you know, there are some people that join the program and they still stay somewhat isolated. They're like, "I'm going to watch videos I'm going to learn stuff and do my own thing and they maybe don't get some of those advantages or benefits But I think that's key. [00:14:02] So yeah Yes. I mean, Sarah, when she had her property management business, I imagine you experienced some of the same sort of things of thinking it's. You know, this is, you're the only one in the world doing this. You're on your own.  [00:14:17] Sarah: Yeah, very much. And especially in the area that I was in I was always different and I just kind of do things differently and I think differently and oftentimes people are like, she's nuts, like, why would you do that? [00:14:29] Even my mom, sometimes she's like, are you sure you're going to do that? Like, are you sure? Like, I'm kind of nervous. But I've just always done things a little differently. And it's so, it is really lonely. And I think the mindset that I had back when I was in Pennsylvania versus, you know, the mindset I have now really has a lot to do with who you surround yourself with and that can. [00:14:53] I think it can just give you hope and it can show you like, Hey, like, I'm not so crazy. Like I've got it. Like I've got it figured out and I'm like doing the right thing and I'm on the right path. And you know, it feels right, but sometimes it's just, you know, you're like, Oh, is this really right? [00:15:07] Because it feels good to me, but man, everybody else is doing something so different.  [00:15:12] Michael: Yeah. And that's another benefit that DoorGrow has given me is. I now have the ability to say no. So I am the business development manager. I have someone in charge of maintenance. I have someone in charge of tenant experience. [00:15:28] I have someone in charge of ops within the office. They color within their lines and we are good. My job is to go out and build the business to work on the business, not work in the business. And until I joined DoorGrow, it didn't matter what came my way. Property wise, I was going to take it last week. I turned away more properties than we took on because they weren't the right fit. [00:15:53] And I have a very nice conversation with prospective clients about qualification and that they're qualifying us to make sure we're a good fit for them. But at the same time. I'm qualifying them, their mindset, their properties, their attitudes toward spending money, their attitudes toward maintaining their properties, and if those things don't align with what we believe here, that housing is a human right that people have the right to live in nice homes that are maintained and maintained properly, then We're not going to accept the business. [00:16:30] We're also not going to accept people that are rude, mean and abusive. Because I've learned since kind of letting the stress of being a general brokerage real estate agent. Slip away that there is plenty of good business out there and that it's more important to have the Philosophical fits with the business than it is to take just any property no matter what the cost  [00:16:57] Jason: Yeah, your ability to say no in business Gives you a business that you feel you can easily say yes to each  [00:17:03] Michael: day. [00:17:04] That's right.  [00:17:05] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to not have to wake up and go, man, I really don't want to do this today. And that's because we're setting boundaries for ourselves and that boundary in those containers allow us to create a business that we really like to be inside.  [00:17:20] Michael: Right. That's correct. Yeah. Now,  [00:17:22] Jason: when you came. [00:17:23] To us DoorGrow initially. I remember like you really had this mindset that you, and now you're doing business development, you had mentioned, you really believed you were the operator. It all was on your shoulders to operate the business, do operations, and you were good at it, but you believe that was your primary gift, I think, to the business and what your contribution needed to be. [00:17:45] And and I know you had some conversations with Sarah and some shifts in that, so could you touch on that a bit?  [00:17:51] Michael: Yeah well, control freak and always have been a control freak. I know one of those. You know, own it. And to a certain degree, I still, I observe. I trust and verify, but I don't get involved. [00:18:07] My number two said it best the other day. He said, yeah, with you. I only have to come to you if I know it's a problem that I can't solve. So I have kind of empowered the people who work with me to color in their lines. And when they are in trouble, come here and ask and we'll figure it out. I have also given them permission to make mistakes because if you're not making mistakes, you're not learning. You're static, and I let them see that I make mistakes and that I admit when I make a mistakes above all else. I expect complete honesty here. We make mistakes. We admit our mistakes. You know, if we have to eat it because it's a financial error that we've made well, then by golly, we're going to eat it because it was our mistake. And we come by it honestly the empowerment of becoming a business development manager is I don't have to worry that the books are balanced every week because I know that there is someone who I've paid good money to who has balanced the books and they can't hide because the system has been created where I can see that it's been uploaded into the accounting software and that the books are in balance. [00:19:25] I can verify that the financial piece of the puzzle in the business is running properly because I get a report monthly from my accountant and my bookkeeper that says, "this is where we are. This is your cash flow. This is your profit. This is where you're spending a lot of money. Are you okay with that?" and I pay them good money to do those things. I have a maintenance coordinator who deals with maintenance and on the Property Meld dashboard, which I log into every morning. I can see the tasks picking off or I can see things progressing and I can see that we're handling our maintenance requests in 3 to 4 days on average and that's fine. I've also told him to maintain his sanity because he's a bit of a control freak. If it's after hours and it's a garbage disposal in a dishwasher and it's after 5 o'clock, you don't need to deal with that today. If it's a leak and we have a catastrophe, then you deal with that after five o'clock, but the small stuff can wait until tomorrow. [00:20:26] It's still important. It's important to get it done and move it off our plates, but you don't have to deal with it when you need to be spending time with your children at soccer camp or baseball practice or whatever he does in the evening with his four kids. And then my other teammates, I can see that they are moving their tasks forward and that I don't have to worry about the job that they're doing. And that's empowered me to go out and find the right properties to bring into the practice for us to manage.  [00:20:56] Jason: You know, one of the gifts that I see in you, which I think really sets you apart, Michael, is coming into the program you're really intelligent. You know this. You're an intelligent guy. I think everybody can pick that up just by hearing you and listening to you. But even though you're intelligent, you have humility about, you know, and this openness to learning. And you've come into the program and you just started to do stuff. Like you tried it out. You experimented, and you allowed yourself the time to prove whether or not it would work or not. And some of the times we get clients that are intelligent, but they're not humble and they're usually the biggest stumbling block to themselves. So I just wanted to point that out. I'm curious what Sarah's experience has been of you as well, because she worked closely with you on like reviewing some of the systems, reviewing your team assessing you and some of this kind of stuff. [00:21:54] Sarah: So, yeah, I think I definitely agree with what you just said about being open to learning and trying things just a bit differently. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs, we do things differently. We're okay with that. But sometimes if it's not our idea, then we're like "I don't know if I want to do it because I didn't think of it." right. So, I think Michael is, he's open to thinking differently. He's open to trying things out and implementing a system. He'll do the research. He doesn't just, you know, blindly jump and he's like, well, Jason said to do this, so I'm going to do it, but he'll do the research and he's very thorough. And I really appreciate that about Michael. He's all into the details and he knows exactly what's going on in his business. He's not like, "Hey, I'm just going to kind of sit back and like, let the team run everything, and then I just, I'm going to cross my fingers and hope and pray that everything is going well, right?" like we know that it's going well because you're not the one who's doing it, so you've been able to get out of the hot seat in a lot of different ways and get yourself more into the things that you actually enjoy. because I remember that conversation with you about the operations and you said, "well, I really just, I love to sell" like, okay, then let's let you sell. Like if you're doing things in the business and you're just holding on to them going, "well, I have to be the one to do this." I think it's really common for us to think that like, " well, I own the business, so I have to do this piece or I own this. And it has to be me. It doesn't always have to be you." do you have to know what's going on? Absolutely. Do you have to have the right people on your team? Absolutely. And do you have to set it up so that things can run smoothly? Absolutely. But do you have to be the one who's actually like doing the work? Right. And I think that's one of the biggest shifts that I've seen in you is that you're able to say, okay I don't have to do this part and I don't want to do this part. [00:23:54] This is where I want to be. So I'm going to move closer to this and I'm going to figure out how to get these pieces kind of offloaded.  [00:24:01] Michael: Yeah. Yeah. When you taught me how to write R docs and after I had a disastrous hire two years ago, disaster, and I had to fire someone, something I'd never had to do, but it was my fault. There was nothing wrong with the person I hired. She was just the wrong fit for the job. And then we sat down, we wrote R docs. With detailed job descriptions and parameters and that made bringing on the next person who is now in that role a dream because she fit the culture. We knew what her profile was before she even interviewed with us. We knew who the person was and then she walked through the door and poof, there she was. And that's one thing I didn't know. I just thought you could teach someone into a position. Well, you can teach skills, but you can't teach the human touch. And that's what I had missed with the disaster, the mistake that I made.  [00:25:02] Jason: Yeah. You'd learn some concepts from us, like the three fits , mapping out R docs. One of you explain what R docs are for those of us. This is DoorGrow speak here.  [00:25:11] Sarah: I know it is. So an R doc, it's just basically a fancy word for job description. We call it R doc because every section on it starts with 'R.' [00:25:20] Jason: There you go. So the ultimate job descriptions. Awesome. So, yeah, so all of these little pieces and systems and mindsets that you've installed in your business have really, I think, primed your business for a lot of growth. Like, where do you see the business going in the future?  [00:25:37] Michael: Oh, so that's another thing I learned. And it was at, I think, Austin at the Austin meeting. And it was you said it in the first like two minutes and I got my nugget and I was like, okay, I can go home. I got it. You said, don't limit your growth. And I had constantly said 200 doors, 200 doors. That's where I'm going. That's where I'm going. And you already passed that now. Yeah, you said that. And I was like. " Why would I create like this false ceiling that I'm going to just bump into and stop at?" Yeah. So, ultimately, and I'd like to retire in the next 10 to 12, 15 years, maybe. We're realistically thinking in the neighborhood of 1,000-2,000 doors. Yeah, people have started to come a calling about, "Hey, do you want to sell your business?" And the time is not right. Some of the financial offers that have been made already are very intriguing. Yeah. But then I'm like, " what will I do with myself?" You know, "what's the next iteration?" And I think until I figure that out, we're going to just stay the course. [00:26:47] Jason: Yeah, I think that's one of the key things that I think a lot of people realize in the program that if it was just about money, then maybe you'd cash out, but it's not just about money, right? There's other things we want out of our experience here on this planet. And that's something else you got a lot of clarity on is what really personally drives you, which allowed you to build the business and the team around you so that you really could move into those plus signs and out of those minus signs. [00:27:13] Michael: Yeah, so the key is I went to the Netherlands in May to see art because it's my thing. Cool. And a little ostentatious to fly to Europe to see Vermeer, but I did it. And I was gone for a good long time and things here chugged right along and it was beautiful. And I knew then that we were doing things right, that I could leave and not be here for 10 days, and the business continued to operate. I continued to watch and check in. But they didn't need me.  [00:27:49] Jason: And how's that different from before you came to DoorGrow?  [00:27:53] Michael: Oh my God. Like the first meeting in Austin that I came to, I had I came really close to not coming because I was like "I can't leave. I just can't leave. I can't leave them." I was wrong. I was wrong and I went to Austin and I went to Vegas and you know, things were good. Yeah.  [00:28:12] Jason: Yeah. So awesome. Well, it's been really cool to see your progress. We really appreciate. Seeing your growth and yeah, there's no question in my mind. A lot of people hear you say, Oh, maybe a thousand, 2000 doors. And they probably think: this guy is ridiculously off his rocker that he could just believe that and the audacity to have that mindset. And I'm sure when you first came to DoorGrow, a thousand doors was like, probably magic, some magic, like pipe dream in the ethers that you would never even consider. I don't know, but. [00:28:40] Michael: 300 seemed unimaginable.  [00:28:43] Jason: Yeah, but now it seems very doable. And you're aware of the DoorGrow code and like we've got clients breaking a thousand doors. We've got clients doing it. And there's no question in my mind. You could easily do this in the next two to three years. If you really wanted to easily.  [00:28:57] Michael: Yeah, I work my golden 100. That's another thing I learned at DoorGrow. To have people that are valuable people that I love and care about that. I have to touch every 30 days because they love and care about me and buy it. So they send business. They ask questions and we share information. Yeah. And for that, I'm indebted to you.  [00:29:19] Jason: Not at all. Well, great. Well, yeah we, it's been really awesome seeing your growth. So cool. Anything else we should ask Michael? We've got him hanging out here with us. What's next for you, Michael? What's next?  [00:29:31] Michael: Well, once we go over 300, then the double it again. [00:29:34] Jason: Yeah. So what I see next for you is you've got some of the systems installed. And then I think what it will be next is to level up your three key systems of. People, process, and planning and maybe starting to build out even a little bit more of that executive team. I think you've got a good team going now and I think then what would be next would be maybe starting to acquire you'll be the one eating up some of these other companies. And I think, maybe working with us on acquisitions, and I think that'll be the quick pace to grow. And that also bring you really great people too, if you want. So [00:30:07] Michael: we're working on two. They're on a slow simmer because companies that I'm looking at have some. Bookkeeping issues. We'll just put it at that.  [00:30:17] Jason: It's an opportunity. Yeah. Always do.  [00:30:20] Michael: So we may be able to fix the problem. Definitely.  [00:30:24] Jason: You'll be able to fix the problem. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Well, I'm excited to see what you do in the future. I know like, I've seen companies hit all these different stages. I know. We know the challenges that you're going to hit at these different stages in growth. We're here to support you. And for those listening here on the DoorGrowShow if you are struggling, you're hitting some of these sticking points, these milestones, you're stuck in your mindset, whatever. Be like Michael, be like Mike, not Mike, but all the reference, be like Michael and you know, talk to us and let us map things out with you and see if we could help you out. We'll be sure with you. So, well, Michael, appreciate you coming on the show. We appreciate having you as a client and grateful for you.  [00:31:09] Michael: Thank you. Thanks. I appreciate it. Have a good day.  [00:31:12] Jason: All right. Cool. So, if you're wanting to get into our free community of property management entrepreneurs on Facebook, go to DoorGrowClub.Com. We have some free gifts that we want to give to you. You'll provide your email as you join the group, we'll give you an, a drip, an email drip of some free gifts, including a fee Bible and some vendors that you can use and some different tools just to help you help yourself and help the industry level up. [00:31:42] And we, and if you provide your info, we will also reach out to see if you'd like to have a conversation with us and see if we could help you grow your business, which the answer usually is. Yes, we can. So we would love to support you and help you out. And if you're wanting to test out your website, which you think might be amazing, go to doorgrowcom/quiz and test your website. A lot of times, this is a great gateway to realizing that you have some blind spots in your business. When you see that your website is leaking lots of money. Which is something we can help you out with. There's a lot of other leaks you can't see, and this might crack your mind open, get you to be open minded like Michael and allow us to be able to help you and support you and make a lot more money, have a lot more freedom and make a bigger difference out there in the marketplace. [00:32:34] We appreciate you listening to our show. If you could do us a favor and leave us a good testimonial on, if you're hearing us on iTunes or like, or comment all of these things help us out and help us get the message out to enact our vision and our mission for this industry of helping it level up. [00:32:50] And until next time to our mutual growth, everybody, bye everyone.  [00:32:54] You just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:33:21] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Length of Episode: 24:45 Jon - Is it time to start using the emoji in biomedical literature? Lara - Extraneous factors in judicial decisions Linda -Incidence of and risk factors for nodding off at scientific sessions Jason - It takes biking to learn: Physical activity improves learning a second language

Ever wondered what a Declaration of Independence document would look like for property management entrepreneurs? Jason did, so he fed ChatGBT his mission statement and core values. Join property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull as they go through The Property Management Declaration of Independence. You'll Learn [02:44] Article I: Liberation from Limiting Beliefs [09:40] Article II: Autonomy from Bad Clients [11:54] Article III: Emancipation from Inefficient Processes [13:12] Article IV: Freedom of Experimentation [20:26] Article V: Independence Through Education and Collaboration [29:01] Article VI: Allegiance to Our Core Values [31:36] Article VII: Pursuit of Holistic Success Tweetables “There's few things that will steal more of your sense of autonomy and freedom than bad clients.” “If you have limiting beliefs, one of the best ways to get liberated from it is to just be around somebody that doesn't hold those same limiting beliefs for you.” “If you say, "Oh, it won't work because of this and this and this." You are right.” “If you have a shitty mindset, just know it will hold you back and you will only accomplish what you believe you can accomplish.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Sarah: if you believe that you have the knowledge and the ability and the resources to be able to figure out how to make the shifts that you need to have the business that you want and run it the way that you want, then it's absolutely possible.  [00:00:16] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow Hackers to the DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently then you are a DoorGrow hacker. DoorGrow hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust, gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO along with Sarah, the COO of DoorGrow. I know, I need to rewrite this intro for when you're here, because sometimes you're here-- and now let's get into the show. All right.  [00:01:24] Sarah: You stumble on that every time. So funny. I know. I have to like wing it. He's like in the middle of reading it. Okay. " And her over there." [00:01:33] Jason: Let's get into this. All right, so it is Independence Day. It is the 4th of July in which United States declared its independence and fought for freedom, right? So we'regoing to be talking about property management entrepreneurs declaring your independence. So, this is something that I think is important because you've heard me talk before about the four reasons: fulfillment, freedom, contribution, and support. Entrepreneurs, we want freedom. And so let's talk about a declaration of independence for property management entrepreneurs. So, I actually have been really having fun playing around with chat GPT and I gave it a bunch of info of how we kind of do things and our philosophy and I had it create a Declaration of Independence. So this should be interesting. So we can go through some of this and we can chat about some of these ideas. And does that sound good? All right.  [00:02:34] Sarah: Well, I guess so because that's what we're doing.  [00:02:36] Jason: Alright. This is what we're doing. She had no clue. She just walked in here. No, and I'm like, this is what we're talking about.  [00:02:42] Sarah: I just show up.  [00:02:44] Jason: She just shows up. Yeah. because she can do that. All right, cool. So, declaration of Independence for property management entrepreneurs. "In the spirit of entrepreneurial growth, the pursuit of freedom in the property management industry." We need to queue up like some patriotic music. [00:03:02] Maybe. I'm just kidding, Madi, maybe you'll add that.  [00:03:05] "We, the United Community of Property Management entrepreneurs solemnly declare our independence from the constraints, inefficiencies, and setbacks that have bound us for too long. We assert our dedication to a brighter, more prosperous, and thriving future." [00:03:20] "Article one, liberation from Limiting Beliefs." So one of the number one things before I read it. One of the number one things clients say that they get from us is mindset. It's just mindset shifts. because that changes everything of how they do things, how their business runs. All right, this is what it says.  [00:03:37] "We vow to liberate ourselves from self-limiting beliefs that hinder innovation and growth. We pledge to foster a growth mindset and no longer allow the words, 'I can't,' or 'it's not possible' to define our reality." So, what have you noticed about limiting beliefs with clients?  [00:03:55] Sarah: Well, I think whatever you think is possible is exactly what is possible. So if you think like, "oh, I can't do it that way," or "This won't work," or like, "oh, my team can't do this," or " I don't have the right tools," then you're absolutely right and it won't happen the way that you want it to or the way that it could. I think some of the biggest shifts I've seen in clients is when they open their mind to different possibilities and when they start to do things just a little differently.  [00:04:27] Jason: So most of our clients are pretty good at believing in us. I think we've gotten really good at convincing them through the sales process and once they get on board, we've got plenty, tons of case studies. But occasionally we get a client that comes in and they are skeptical about everything and maybe somehow they missed all the details during the onboarding and the sales process, and they don't believe. They have these limiting beliefs, "this stuff won't work." What do we notice in terms of results between those shitty clients and everyone else? [00:05:00] Sarah: Well, first, I don't think it's fair to call them shitty clients.  [00:05:03] Jason: Okay. Maybe we don't. Shitty mindset clients.  [00:05:05] Yeah. I think it's fair to say  [00:05:06] Sarah: like, "Hey, your mindset is shitty." Yeah. And I get that like my mindset used to be completely different. Totally different. Like I grew up in a place , where. Anybody that was making a million dollars a year, like I just didn't know it. Like, I was like, "oh, like, Hollywood. That's like what happens there, like when you're famous and you're like, this is just what happens out there. Or like, maybe big cities but not here. And because they didn't have any kind of example or anything tangible to say like, "Hey, they did it so I can do it." I just didn't believe that it was possible. And when I got out of that area, and now I'm in an area where it's very entrepreneurial based and business friendly and people just have a different kind of thought process around here, and we spend a lot of time with people who they're elevated in their thinking. And now I'm like, "yeah, it's a hundred percent possible." Absolutely possible. So I think first is if you have a shitty mindset, just know it will hold you back and you will only accomplish what you believe you can accomplish. So if you think, "oh yeah, none of this stuff is going to work for me," and we've heard it all, like, "oh, my market is different," or like, "my team won't do that," or like, "oh yeah, my clients will never go for that," or like, "my tenants are different. My properties are different." And like all of the reasons, what they're doing is they're like giving us all of the reasons why it's not going to work for them. And they're correct on every single reason. [00:06:39] If you say, "oh, it won't work because of this and this and this." You are right. What we need to do is like change your mindset to believe like, "Hey, this can work for me and it can work in my market and it can work with my team and it can work with my clients and it might mean that I need to make some shifts. It's not just going to be, "oh, I believe it and now it's true." we need to make a couple shifts and it can be true, but if you believe that you have the knowledge and the ability and the resources to be able to figure out how to make the shifts that you need to have the business that you want and run it the way that you want, then it's absolutely possible. [00:07:18] Jason: Okay, so some clients come to us. We have quite a few actually, that they don't believe in themselves. And one of the things-- this is a confession on my part-- one of the things that I failed with clients in the past, because I couldn't see this-- is that sometimes clients come to us and they're lacking hope. They don't have belief in themselves, and my mindset at the time was, "well just do the stuff and you'll see that it works". And the clients that would do it, they would get results and it would work, and some clients just wouldn't put in effort. They'd say they did, but they would blame us and like stuff like this, and they don't realize it takes like three months to get something really well dialed in. So they'd try it for like a couple days. Right. So I think one of the things that I've realized since from some of my coaches and mentors is that, we as coaches get to believe and provide hope and faith into our clients that are lacking it. [00:08:16] And so I think we're much better now at helping clients that lack that mindset and lack that belief and have limiting beliefs in themselves or even in like the strategies. If we give them enough belief, they still start to get results and that belief it rubs off on them. And so instead of blaming clients, I now take accountability more and say, "all right, I'm not giving them enough belief. I need to be more in their corner. I need to believe in them more." And I see them energetically change real time while on a Zoom call with them, like I just start feeding them belief like, "somebody else did this. You can do this too. They're not more special than you. They're not more charismatic. They're not better looking than you. They're not smarter than you. You know how to do property management. If they can do this stuff, you can do it too." I believe that I believe in them. And then they start to go, "wait, maybe he's right. Maybe I can do this." And then it starts to help their belief. [00:09:16] And so I think if you have limiting beliefs, one of the best ways to get liberated from it is to just be around somebody that doesn't hold those same limiting beliefs for you. They believe in you. They believe in you. Do you believe in me?  [00:09:27] Sarah: Yeah. Of course. I believe in you. [00:09:29] Jason: Sarah believes in me. I believe in her. Do you feel like I believe in you? Yeah. Yeah. So, and that creates momentum. That creates momentum. All right, let's go to the next one. Article two, autonomy from Bad Clients. "We assert our right to work with clients who respect and value our expertise. We shall not allow our business to be dominated by clients who undermine our values, ethics, or the standards of service we strive to provide." [00:09:58] So this goes along with our concept I, this of the cycle of suck and not taking on bad clients, which-- [00:10:04] Sarah: we should give this to our clients. And just like-- [00:10:06] Jason: have them sign it? Yeah.  [00:10:07] Sarah: This is your new declaration. We're doing it.  [00:10:10] Jason: ChatGPT is really good if you give it good data, like garbage in, garbage out. Right? I know. So, yeah, I gave it our whole client avatar document. I gave it our DoorGrowShow manifesto. I gave it our client-centric mission statement, and then they give it all that and this is what it came up with. So it's pretty cool. Pretty good. So yeah, I think this is involved with, our previous episodes where we talked about the cycle of suck or not taking on bad clients, but yeah, you deserve, you have the right to choose who you work with that value, your expertise. Why would you tolerate anything less? This is your business. You can build it however you want. You can build it full of a bunch of clients that don't value you, or you can build it full of clients that share your values, your ethics, your standards, want you to be able to do your best job and are willing to pay you for it. Anything else we should say about that?  [00:11:03] Sarah: I think we covered this a lot in our program, but what's really nice is to see when clients start to make that shift for themselves. Like we've had a few clients say like, and it was very clear to me that this is not the client that I wanted to work with. So like, sometimes they turn it down, sometimes they just know like, Hey, if I get the deal then, I'll consider taking it on if it seems to be a decent enough fit. But like, this is not my ideal client, so I'm really just not going to put a lot of time and energy into this because I can see like, this is just not what I'm looking for. [00:11:38] Jason: Autonomy from bad clients. I mean, really there's few things that will steal more of your sense of autonomy and freedom than bad clients. I mean, that's a real strong thief, so you deserve freedom from that. Declare your independence from bad clients.  [00:11:54] All right, article number three, emancipation from inefficient processes. "We declare to free ourselves from inefficient, archaic, and time consuming processes. We will actively seek, implement, and embrace technology and systems that streamline our operations, enhance productivity, and allow us to serve our clients better." [00:12:16] Sarah: Like that. These are these shifts. We got to make some shifts. If you're expecting your business to just change overnight and without really changing anything in it, then it's like, the definition of insanity. Like we're doing the same thing over and over, but we're expecting different results.  [00:12:35] Jason: Yeah. We've got a lot of software tools and tech that we use with clients to facilitate them having a greater sense of freedom and emancipation from inefficient processes. So yeah, technology can help with that. Okay.  [00:12:52] Sarah: Well, so can a great team though. Yes. Not everything needs to be technology because I've seen property management companies that they're like," we just rely on technology," and like humans are very rarely involved and it just doesn't work the way that they want it to work.  [00:13:07] Jason: Systems, right? Systems. Yeah. Building systems. Okay.  [00:13:12] Article four, Roman numeral iv. Okay. Freedom of Experimentation. "We recognize our freedom to experiment with new approaches and marketing strategies. We will not be shackled by "this is how it's always been done," shall embrace the diverse, evolving landscape of our industry." So I think innovation is a big part of what we focus on at DoorGrow. We're always like adding new things and coming up with new ideas and pulling in the best ideas from our clients that are also working towards innovating and making a difference. And I think innovation comes from. Innovation. And so as our clients are doing these new ideas and these new things, they're seeing little ways to improve. because that's what entrepreneurs do. Like, Hey, we could do this, we could do that. And so, and us sitting on top with a bird's eye view of all these clients that are doing all of these things that we've helped to bring to the industry or to innovate, they're also helping us to make this better for everybody else as well. [00:14:16] And so this innovation incubation system that we've created at DoorGrow is pretty powerful, I think. So, I mean, just some of the ideas that some of our clients have presented at some of our conferences have been pretty awesome, so, yeah. All right. Yeah. Anything else about that?  [00:14:32] Sarah: I think the only other thing I would add is like, the way that we implement things in our business. because we just move so fast. Yeah. Like Jason and I, we don't like to waste time. We don't, him and haw, we're not like, oh, is this the right decision? Like, what do we do? I don't know. Let's take like four months and figure it out. We see something, we make a change and we're like, let's just do it. And if it's the wrong thing, then we'll undo it because we'll see it very quickly. But we take action really quickly. We just went through our annual planning and from just one year. Our business is completely different. Like our model is different, our coaching is different, like what we offer is different. [00:15:10] Totally. Like literally every piece of it is completely different. It was like we took our old business model and we just blew it up and we were like, Hey, how can we make this like 20 times better? Yeah. And we did it. And we did it all in less than one year. So it was so funny because when we were going through, we start off with wins, we're like, Hey, what wins do we have from the last year? And it was like, we had so many wins. Like, it's like hard to even think like, Hey, remember a year ago when our business was like this? So what's nice about that is we get to pull up like what the business looked like last year in the system. We were like, oh yeah, we totally forgot because it was so long ago to us. We're like, oh God, I like totally forgot it used to be like that. We used to do things like this, and these are all of the things that we changed or improved or added in order to make things that much better. And I think just being able to like add a new piece or do things a little bit differently is something that sometimes doesn't feel super comfortable for people because they're so worried about like, is this the right decision? [00:16:14] And it might not be. It might not be the right decision, but the inaction will keep you like tethered to the ground for a really long time. So if we just worry all the time like, oh, I don't want to do it because I just don't know if it's the right thing, you are never going to know if it's the right thing. Unfortunately, like no one makes a crystal ball yet. We don't have like the answer to predict the future at this point in time. So sometimes you just have to make the leap and guess and know that if you make the leap and it's the wrong one, we can always change it because your business should be this like ever evolving, ever changing thing. It shouldn't be like this stagnant old like pond, with like murky water that never gets any movement.  [00:17:00] Jason: So, I think one of the things that has facilitated the speed and the innovation and the experimentation, which is the Article four that we're talking about, is DoorGrow OS, like having this really strong planning system, which you mentioned we just did annual, quarterly, monthly, and weekly planning. We did it all in a week. It was like planning week. So this planning system, really, and not all technology is software. Not all technology is software. This is a piece of technology, which there is a software aspect to it, but really the technology of this is this system that of planning that we're able to create this cadence of momentum in the business that gets everyone on the team moving it forward. [00:17:51] It's probably the most important system we have in our business. It creates our culture, it creates our business, it creates our results. It creates an immense amount of speed. No one can keep up with the level of changes like Sarah's saying, if you worked with DoorGrow in the past, like three years ago, or even one year ago. Even one year ago. [00:18:10] Sarah: If you were a client with us like one year ago, yeah, you have no, is not, you have no idea what DoorGrow is now because it's just so different.  [00:18:18] Jason: This is like a newer. Way more improved company and clients that worked with us maybe five years ago or maybe even 10 years ago. They have no clue what DoorGrow is even about or what we do anymore. It's even one year ago transformed so much one year in what we do. It's like, so it's so very different. Totally.  [00:18:36] Sarah: One year ago we had one program that was it. Like we had one program and we had like a baby scale program with like a little bit in it. But it's really flourished. So now we have like three different three different programs and like so many things that are available that we just didn't, we didn't have at all before.  [00:18:57] Jason: Now you said we don't have a crystal ball, but if there was something that was as close as you could get to a crystal ball, it would be having a planning system like DoorGrow OS because we are creating the future. We map it out and there's a super high likelihood we're going to achieve it because of how it's all broken down. And it creates predictable results. Like we consistently are able to scale our revenue, scale our programs, and get the things done that we want to do at a really high pace. And we're able to create predictable results we can, we create and see the future. A of entrepreneurs have a vision of the future and they try and throw that vision to their team, like a grenade with a pin pulled. And the team are like, what? What? Okay. Sure. And then they teach. A lot of entrepreneurs don't have a good system like this, and so they teach their team to lose. [00:19:44] They're like, Hey, we're going to hit this great goal this month, and then they don't. And they're teaching their team to be comfortable with losing, and they get more and more comfortable with failure. Our team's pretty comfortable with winning, right? Yeah. Like if we don't hit an objective, something major happened. Like painful. Yeah. Something major happened. Yeah. And so our team are used to winning and we win early. We set goals and we hit them usually early. Is the goal. DoorGrowOS is one of the systems we in help clients install. This planning system better than EOS, better than traction, better than whatever else you've, like, experimented with. You'll get far bigger results from your team and you'll get a lot more momentum and money.  [00:20:26] All right, so let's go to article number five. Article five. Independence through Education and Collaboration. This is something we are a big part of that we believe in.  [00:20:37] "We commit to continual learning and collaboration, understanding that our strength lies in the collective wisdom of our community. We pledge to share insights, strategies, and experiences with our fellow property management entrepreneurs for the greater good of the industry." [00:20:54] A lot of people are worried about the competition and they don't want to share their ideas. Yes. And how small is their thinking?  [00:21:01] Sarah: Oh yeah, I know. There was somebody just yesterday that said, "oh my God, like, this is such an amazing program. And like I, I've been part of multiple coaching programs on the real estate side and this blows all of those out of the water. Obviously we're focused on property management, but he's like, this blows all of this out of the water." And he is like, "I just hope that my competitors don't find out about this and start using you guys because that would be really bad for me." And like, I get it. I do, I understand it. Because-- [00:21:30] Jason: this is a new client. [00:21:32] Sarah: Yes. Yeah, he's newer. They'll figure it out. Yeah. He's newer. So I get it because I used to think that too, like, oh God. Like it's like that we have to have like this abundance mindset, like a, there's always enough to go around. And b, we say it like a rising tide raises all ships. So if you are like, oh, I can't, like, I can't tell my secrets to my competitors. [00:21:55] I must keep everything like you, I'm not telling you anything that you do. I, and I used to be, I used to be like that. So I, I do understand it because I used to be like, I'm not telling anybody what I do. Like you do what you do and I'm justgoing to do what I do, and you don't need to worry about what I'm doing over here. And I've gotten out of that just because. My mindset has changed. And I realize there's so much more than like our brains can even fathom. If you think, hey, like I can make, a hundred thousand dollars a year and this is what my business can look like, there's more to be had and there's always more like to go around. If you're like, Hey, I know I can do a hundred thousand. I feel like I'm in the mindset where I could do two 50 or 500 or a million dollars a year. I can have multiple locations. Like I can just keep acquiring businesses. I can grow and grow. with a client this week that has 1300 doors. Let's pause there for a second, because a lot of times, 1300 doors is really hard to even get to, and most property managers don't even reach that level. And he's at 1300 doors and he goes, I haven't even like made a dent. Like I haven't, I'm just a drop in the bucket. Of where I want to go and where I want to be. Why is that? Because his mindset is open. Like he's opened his mind to realize there is, there's more if we think of it like this, like, hey, You are just like this tiny little pinpoint on the map because when we expand out, it's like, here's me and my business. [00:23:26] But if we expand out, you are in an entire like city. We expand out more. You're in an entire state. We expand out more. You're in an entire country. We expand out more like we're in an entire planet. If we just keep going and going, like, the universe is just so infinite. And if you're, sometimes it's just so hard to conceptualize because your brain is like this is what I'm doing and like, this is what I can see, touch, and feel around me. [00:23:53] But if you, once you realize like, Hey, there is always, there's always more. You're not going to worry about what your competitors do. Not at all. You're not even going to be concerned. Like, I don't really care what Johnny's doing down the street. He could do all of the same things that I do, and I'm just not worried about it because I know that there's so much abundance to go around that I'm, I don't care what he is doing. [00:24:17] Jason: So when your vision is small, you see the competition. When your vision's bigger, you see a lot more opportunity. And we really try and push the idea mindset wise and with our clients and here on the podcast, collaboration over competition, right? When we get our clients collaborating, like we just talked about before, innovation starts to happen, the whole industry can move forward. [00:24:42] Two thirds are self-managing, there's like 70% or so that are self-managing. There's no scarcity in this industry. If you feel like there's scarcity. And it's because you're playing a game that is not very winnable. You're probably doing the wrong things to try and grow. If it feels scarce, get with us and we'll help you see bigger opportunities. [00:25:02] So once we get clients in our system and they're focused on adding doors, and they start adding doors, and they start to do this in the blue ocean, instead of doing it in the red, ugly bloody water through SEO or pay per click or content marketing or social media marketing or pay per lead services. They realize there's plenty of business. It's not hard to grow, and they become completely like, like, it's like not even paying attention to, or not even caring about their competition. Yeah. They're like, they're so busy adding doors and making money and trying to get their own stuff together to be able to handle the growth. [00:25:37] They're not even paying attention anymore to the competition.  [00:25:40] Sarah: Exactly. Like Mike with a 1300 doors seat, like no. Never ever at that, like at any point in our conversation did he say like, oh, but I'm like, I can't do this because this person. Never, like he, he's worried about what he's doing. He is like on this one track, and he is like, this is my mission and this is what I need to do and this is where I'm going. And I don't care about anything else. Like, I don't care about anything else around me when, like, they put blinders on the horse, right? We've got to put our blinders on and just run towards that goal as fast as we can. You don't care about what's going on over here or over here. You just get to the point where it's completely insignificant. [00:26:21] Even our smallest clients, once they get into momentum of growth and they see how easy growth can be, I mean, it takes work, but once they see that it's super doable and it's repeatable and they're adding doors like crazy, that goes away. Like I think there's always a competitive nature in our clients, and I like to leverage that in the beginning. So I, in some of my content in trainings, I'm like, Hey, if you want to crush your competition, do this or do it this way, or do this. And that brings out that competitive entrepreneurial side of themselves. But once they start getting into it, our challenge sometimes might be with some clients they like lose the drive because they start to see this is not so hard. [00:26:58] But hopefully they get inspired and excited to like, take things to the next level. Right. Okay.  [00:27:03] I don't think they so much lose drive. I think it's just that it's shifted. It's a like you versus me. Versus like, I'm just doing what I'm doing. It's me versus me now. And that, like, that's happened with me in my business a couple times where like I'm like, oh, it's me versus my competition. [00:27:21] Like it's me versus that guy down the street. It's me versus like every other like management company and my area. And it's not, it's only me versus me. I have to outdo what I did yesterday or last year or last month. Like it's it just changes because you start playing a game with yourself instead of trying to worry about like, I'm, I've got to beat you. [00:27:44] Jason: Well, your power and achievement. So this all makes a lot of sense, hearing how you think, but some of our clients are not, and like one of our clients like Mark and Brandon, they had gotten to a point, they'd been adding doors and then they got comfortable and they were like, and I think what happens is they had this big goal to like leave their day jobs and get a bunch of doors and they did that and then they were like, well, then they lost a little bit of steam. So I think what happens with a lot of entrepreneurs is we have this away motivator. Like we're trying to get away from something. We want to get away from a job we don't like, or we want to get away from scarcity or starving or whatever. Right? We have this, we're trying to run away from this saber tooth tiger that's chasing after us each month, and then we have to shift towards some sort of toward motivator. [00:28:31] So with them in my coaching call, I had to like help them identify what is? We talked about their why, which is their personal why, which is something that we get into deeply with clients and each of their, what they want. And how do we connect their why to the business now? Like what do they want more of or what do they want to move towards? And so that kind of lit them up again. And so we have to find that toward motivator. And we've gotten off track the education and collaboration, but, all right, but that's the idea. All right, so let's go to Article six vi. All right. Allegiance to our core values. "We affirm our allegiance to the core values that guide our business. We will strive to uphold integrity, transparency, excellence, and client centricity in all our operations, and we shall not waver in times of adversity." I love the shalls. All right, so we're big on core values. We help our clients define their core values. We even took a look at our individual values and then figured out what should they be for the business and took a fresh look. [00:29:41] And they were, we had a lot of alignment and we didn't really change much, I don't think we changed any, anything on the company core values.  [00:29:49] Sarah: No. We added like one, one sentence. Yeah. But I think mine, if I were to add one is just. Do whatever it takes. Right? Do whatever it takes. Like we have a do whatever it takes mindset and if that means you have to come out of your comfort zone, you come out of your comfort zone. That means you have to make phone calls? You make phone calls. Yeah. If that means you have to, do whatever. It's like ethically, of course. But if you have to do things that don't. Seem fun or like, these are not my normal job duties. [00:30:20] Well, that's okay. Like, we're going to, we're going to do it because that's what we need in the business.  [00:30:26] Jason: So I think it's important for property managers to be really clear on their values. So, so you, as an entrepreneur, if you're listening to this, you need to be very clear on your values. Not like 10 values or 20 values or infinite values. You need to figure out what are your, like top three maybe four values that if everybody on your team believed these, they would be great team members. They would fit you. And that's something we help clients work on. But I think it's super important to have values in the business because it that's the how you go about doing everything in the business. [00:31:02] And if you're worried about how your team members are going to do things, it's because they don't share your values. You can work all day on the whats. You can define every process and try to micromanage, but you cannot control how you need people that fit your culture. You cannot create that in them. You have to find the right people that have the right culture and the right values. Values come from mom and dad, God, religion, whatever, right? DNA, I don't know, genetics, but people have their values somewhat hardwired, and you're not going to really move the needle on their values. So you got to find people that fit them  [00:31:36] All right article, what are we up to? Six. Seven. Seven, okay. Article seven. All right. Pursuit of holistic success. [00:31:47] "We vow to pursue not just financial success. But the overall wellbeing and fulfillment in our personal and professional lives. We will commit to creating balance that nurtures our personal growth relationships and contributions to society." [00:32:03] All right. It's pretty good. So a holistic success. I mean, this really is I've never, I don't know, like. I used to like tag myself on Facebook when I would create a post, that'd say, holistic business coach or something like this. Because that's the idea. Holistic means it encompasses our personal life, our business, and that's why in our podcast intro it says " and our mission at DoorGrow is to transform property management, business owners and their businesses." So we have a strong holistic approach.  [00:32:34] Sarah: Yeah. For sure. I was it Ed Mylet that said it at Funnel Hacking Live last year? It might have been Ed Mylet. I'm going to have to look it up. Sorry Ed, if it was not you. So I think he said if the game for you is making money, if you're just in this to make money and that's all you care about, you are not going to make very much of it. You just won't because that's the only thing you're focused on and you don't care about anything else. But if instead, oh, it might have been Russell Brunson. Oh God, I owe one of them an apology.  [00:33:03] Jason: We heard it. We heard it at Funnel Hacking Live Conference. It was Funnel Hacking live at conference. So I can tell you that for sure. So, and it was either Ed Millet or Russell Brunson. I can tell you that too. They probably both said something similar.  [00:33:13] Sarah: So credit to both. But if you're only focused on making money, you're not going to make very much of it. You won't be very successful. However, if your focus is on helping people. Now you're going to be successful and you'll make a whole bunch of money. So if money is the thing that you're after, it's just going to feel like really hard. [00:33:34] It's going to be really, really draining for you. But if we're focused on like, Hey, how can I, primarily, first and foremost, how can I help people? That's the thing that's going to unlock all of the money for you.  [00:33:47] Jason: This is where your business mission becomes client-centric. This is where it becomes outward focused and our personal why should be outward focused as well, right? This is where we start to have that impact, but everybody wants to have some sort of different impact. We're all unique, so I think it's important to discover that. We talk about the four reasons, like moving towards more greater fulfillment, freedom, contribution, and support is why we have a business as motivators, and if you're moving towards that and you're committed to creating a balance in your business and personal life and personal growth and relationships and contributions to society, right, then you're going to have a much more profitable business. You're going to enjoy it more. Your team are going to be more inspired to work for you and be part of this vision and this mission. [00:34:39] So I like this article. It's a good one. That's the last one. So this ends this way. "Let this declaration serve as a compass that guides our actions, decisions, and collaborations with resolve and unity. Let us forge a path that transforms not just our own lives, but the entire property management industry for the betterment of the communities we serve. Signed your name and all fellow DoorGrow Hackers." All right. So I like that. Yeah, we're using that. That's pretty good. We're going to keep that. Maybe we'll post that somewhere. Yeah. All right. And that's basically it. Anything else we should add? I mean, we want, we all want more freedom and there's probably something that you feel like right now is holding you back. [00:35:22] You don't feel free. You wake up in the morning and maybe you don't feel like you are excited to go to work or excited to take that next phone call or excited to do property management. You may not feel a sense of freedom right now. You may not even think it's possible in that industry, so I promise you it is absolutely possible. We've helped lots of clients do this, and it can happen a lot faster than you realize as well. So you can have freedom and you can have freedom from bad clients. You can have freedom from bad deals. You can have freedom from bad phone calls. You can have freedom from bad team members. You can have freedom from all the bad stuff that you want to have freedom from. [00:36:02] So, all right, what should people do? Let's give them a call to action.  [00:36:07] Sarah: Well, I think the easiest thing to do is work with a great coach. Might be us, might be somebody else. I'm a bit biased.  [00:36:16] Jason: It should be us and you should reach out to DoorGrow. Go to DoorGrow.com and join our Facebook group, which you can get to at... [00:36:25] Sarah: I don't know.  [00:36:25] Jason: DoorGrowClub.com. doorgrowclub.com. Join our Facebook group community, and this will start getting you connected and indoctrinated. We're going to convince you to believe in yourself and we're going to convince you to also believe in DoorGrow. And then we're going to help you win through DoorGrow and we're going to change your life. This is what we do at DoorGrow. So, If you want some help. Otherwise, join our Facebook group and eventually reach out once you realize that you want our help. And until next time to our mutual growth. Bye everyone.  [00:36:57] Jason Hull: You just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:37:24] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Has StarCraft II aged well? What's with all the proper nouns? And how does it feel to play an old RTS game in 2023? This week, Triple Click revisits Blizzard's classic strategy game, playing through a chunk of Legacy of the Void and some multiplayer... for Aiur!One More Thing:Kirk: Overcooked 2Maddy: Barbie (2023)Jason: It's Not TV: The Spectacular Rise, Revolution, and Future of HBO (John Koblin and Felix Gillette)LINKS:Triple Click on Twitch: https://twitch.tv/tripleclickpod (Starcraft 2 Stream July 21 at 8PM Eastern)Support Triple Click: http://maximumfun.org/joinBuy Triple Click Merch: https://maxfunstore.com/search?q=triple+click&options%5Bprefix%5D=lastJoin the Triple Click Discord: http://discord.gg/tripleclickpodTriple Click Ethics Policy: https://maximumfun.org/triple-click-ethics-policy/

DoorGrow has changed a lot in the last few years. We've added tons of new features and perks for our clients as well as new coaches… including Sarah Hull, COO and property management growth coach. Join property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull to learn more about Sarah's role at DoorGrow, operations, and how you can scale your property management company. You'll Learn... [02:47] Sarah's Property Management Experience [05:19] Improving Operations and Cutting your Staffing Costs in Half [15:38] Why You Need an Operator in Your Business [22:02] Personality Types and Their Roles in a Business [27:24] The Clue that You Need a Better Team Tweetables “You can't build the right team around the wrong person.” “Here's the clue that you don't have the right team: your day-to-day is something you don't enjoy doing every day.” “Is the bruised ego worth a better, more profitable business that takes, a lot more off your plate and is less stressful?” “The most important person you'll ever hire in your business will be the operator.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: Here's the clue that you don't have the right team: your day to day is something you don't enjoy doing every day. If you're still wearing hats that you don't enjoy doing and you've built an entire team around you, and you're the wrong person in the roles that you're sitting in, then you've built the wrong team around you. You can't build the right team around the wrong person. [00:00:18] Welcome DoorGrow Hackers to the DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you're interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently then you are a DoorGrow hacker.  [00:00:36] DoorGrow Hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate gateway to high trust, real estate deals, relationships, and residual income At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their business businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host along with Sarah here, property management growth experts, Jason Hull and Sarah Hull, the founder and CEO and the COO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show.  [00:01:22] All right, so I'm already messing up the intro as I'm reading it because I'm looking and seeing her here in the screen, and I find her highly distracting. So, we were talking before we talked last night, we're like, what are we going to talk about on the podcast? And and then this morning, I said, what are we going to talk about? She says, I don't know, we only talked for like five minutes about last night, and we didn't come to a conclusion. So, I said, let's talk about you. Can I intro you and brag about you first? Sure, go ahead. So I wanted, I thought we would talk about Sarah today because she's probably a lot more interesting certainly to look at than myself and maybe to listen to. So I thought we would talk about her. So, I'll tell you a little bit about Sarah. So what's really amazing about Sarah and what I really like about her is that her wrists are really tiny.  [00:02:10] Sarah: That's really, it is true. It's not not true.  [00:02:14] Jason: My hands are not enormous. Dude hands. I buy child bracelets for her. I'm just kidding. All right, so  [00:02:19] Sarah: I have a five inch wrist. So like I can take, I can actually wrap my my pinky and my thumbs and touch. That's about, and they overlap. So it's about this big.  [00:02:31] Jason: Oh yeah. I can do the pinky as well. That's, yeah. Very small.  [00:02:34] Sarah: I train a lot on the rest. Get them that way.  [00:02:37] Jason: I do actually like that. I think it's a cute trait. All right. But I'm joking. What, what I really want to say is, so what's interesting to the audience is that Sarah has managed her own property management business. She has exited that. She sold it. Great job, by the way. Mm-hmm. And she managed a decent amount. At that size, most property managers have a team, like a full team, like five to 10 people I've seen. And usually at the stage, these companies are very unprofitable. Like this is the worst profit margin stage they've been at in their business. And they get stuck. And I call this area the second sand trap. They can't afford to really like expand or do more marketing or, and they're just not able to take a lot out of the business and, and their profits are all getting eaten up by staffing costs. Now Sarah had one part-time person, boots on the ground part-time and managed her business remotely part-time. Part-time, yeah. She was bored. Very. And people are like, well, these must have been really nice properties. These were C class properties? Duplexes, small plexes. [00:03:52] Sarah: Yes. We had a good mix of single family, duplex, triplex, and then I think we had maybe two that were like 10 units, which was kind of big for my area, but  [00:04:03] Jason: Okay. Yeah. And so, what was your profit margin?  [00:04:08] Sarah: Over 60%. Okay. 60% was a not great amount.  [00:04:12] Jason: Okay, so a lot of you dream of that, right? And you think, how's that even possible? It's possible because one, Sarah is very efficient. She's a very good operator. That's why she is now the COO of DoorGrow. And everything in the business is better as a result of having her in the business. Everything's improved. But I wanted to qualify Sarah as a badass. Like she's really good at what she does, and she wasn't really connected to the property management industry. She just did what made sense to her. And she didn't really want to be talking to tenants and she didn't really want to be dealing with talking to the owners very often, and she just set up her business in a way that was very efficient. And so we'll be talking about that in the priorities training. So, Sarah also has come into DoorGrow and she runs all of our operations. She runs I everything that I've taught her that I like I've developed DoorGrow os and how we plan our cadence. She just knows it to the point where she can teach it. And she learned it all very quickly. And now she's the one that coaches clients how we did our hiring. She like has improved on that and built it out even more and teaches clients how we do hiring and so we help clients get all these systems in place to become more profitable and more efficient. Sarah does all that. So as an example, why don't you share the story of maybe Jade and Andrew. I think that's a great story. Because they were at a similar size of a business as you had had.  [00:05:46] Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Well, they had about 188 units and they had 11 team members total, like 11. So really, really overstaffed. And some of them were in the office and some of them were VAs and we just really had to like dive in because they said, well, like, what are they doing? And they kind of gave me like a surface answer. Like, oh, well this person does this and they do this. And I said, yeah, but like, what are they really doing? Because with 188 leases, like, let's just pretend that. We had all hundred and 88 due in the same month with, which isn't going to be the case. We're going to, spread that over the course of multiple months. But if we had all hundred 88, due even in one month, I still can't figure out what, two or three leasing agents are doing with 40 hours a week every single week. So we are just really going through and trying to figure out like, who's doing what. And sometimes I find that either no one's doing something or two people are doing something. And if two people are doing it, just know that it's not getting done.  [00:06:56] Jason: That's a 17 to one ratio. I just did the math. [00:06:58] So that's, that's for each, for every 17 doors, they have a team member.  [00:07:04] Sarah: It was really bad. So we just kind of went through with them and figured out like, what is everybody actually doing? What should everybody be doing? And then how many people is it really actually going to take? And they they had a lot of meetings and discussions with each other and then like we kind of met a couple times throughout this process and they came to the conclusion that they needed to let go of about half of their team. And they did. And then once they did that, all of a sudden they're like, Hey, we're like profitable and we're making money. But when we first started talking with them, they said like, actually, we're losing money every month. Like we can't pay ourselves. We can't take anything and we're losing money. Like this business is costing me money to run every single month. Yeah, little uncomfortable situation to be in, especially because property management isn't, it's not easy, it's not a cake walk. You're not, like doing nothing all day. So if you're in a business like this, And it is complicated and it is challenging. Then the least you should be able to do is like get yourself a decent profit margin so that you can make sure that you're paying yourself and that your business isn't struggling to keep up with. [00:08:14] Jason: Drive this home. Sarah did one call with them and the result of that one call was, what? What are all the results?  [00:08:21] Sarah: Well, on the one call, they realized, I have no idea what most of the people are actually doing. Like, they gave me the answer and I'm like, yeah, but how do you spend 40 hours a week doing that thing? [00:08:32] Yeah. And from there they realized like, we need to make major, major changes to our team. And most of these people are going to have to go. On the second call, that's when they actually decided to take action. Okay. And they got rid of, so. [00:08:47] Jason: The second call, which is she did this one call after that. [00:08:51] Mm-hmm. They fired half their team, half their team then, and as a result, their profit margin, which was not very good, which was negative, losing money, was then what? What did they get to? I didn't get their profit margin. Okay. It was significantly improved. Oh, no. Significantly improved.  [00:09:09] Sarah: I know they weren't losing money anymore. [00:09:10] Jason: Yeah. Yay. All right. We'll have to get some stats on that cause I want to brag during the priorities training about that. All right. So, Sarah has been able to dramatically improve our clients' businesses and lives. One of the things she's also helped a lot of clients with is completely restructuring their teams. Mm-hmm. They just did two of them last week. Okay. Why don't you explain Yeah. Kind of what you've done.  [00:09:37] Sarah: Mm-hmm. Well, all right, so one of them had about 360 doors and there were 1, 2, 3, 7 people on the team total. Which to some of you might sound like, yeah, that makes sense. And to me it's just, I'm like, there's too many people. And it was kind of like the same thing where everyone is saying like, oh, I'm so busy. I'm so busy, I'm so busy, and I'm looking at things going, I just don't understand what actually is is happening. Like, there's a lot of work that has to be done. It's like busy work. It's, it's like grunt work, but it's not, super helpful. It's just the things that are going to keep you afloat and that's like a bare minimum. So what we ended up doing is this client had one BDM, three property managers and then three assistants that were basically like assistant property managers. And we, he's like, I don't know if a lot of them are like good fits. [00:10:37] And I just, I, I really don't know what they're saying they're doing because they all tell me like, I'm so busy. I'm so busy, but what's actually happening? So when we kind of like dove into things, we realized like, you are overstaffed and very similar situation. He wasn't able to really take a lot out of the business because there was not a lot left. [00:10:57] Jason: Who is this? Kevin. Okay, so Kevin had three property managers. Mm-hmm. Each property manager and they were portfolio style. And each property manager had their own assistant. Yep. Because they were not, for some reason able to get done what they needed done. [00:11:13] And Kevin himself was having to do lots of things, put out lots of fires, and be involved in micromanaging everybody. And when I first shadowed, and--  [00:11:22] Sarah: he wasn't micromanaging anybody, there was nobody leading the team.  [00:11:25] Jason: Okay. Kevin wasn't leading the team then? Nope. So what, Kevin? No one was leading the team. [00:11:30] Sarah: Team was just kind of doing whatever they thought was the right thing to do.  [00:11:33] Jason: All right. Well, Kevin seemed pretty stressed out and what, yeah, and Kevin didn't have any personal support at all. Like nobody was helping Kevin with anything. He didn't even have his own assistant, but he got assistance for three people on the team that weren't very productive or efficient. So, what's the plan with Kevin? [00:11:53] Sarah: Yeah. So, half of those people are going too. So we decided the BDM is excellent, so we're going to keep the, the bdm. He is taking one of the people who was a property manager and she actually tests okay as a property manager on our assessment. But she tests better as an operator. She is like, is a better fit for kind of this operator position. So we're going to shift her into the operator role. We're going to keep one of the property managers to do all of everything. And then one VA who's going to be like an assistant property manager.  [00:12:29] Jason: Where'd the BDM come from? [00:12:30] Sarah: The BDM was already there. Oh, okay. He was one of the seven originals. Got it. So he had three property managers, three assistants, and one bdm. Those were the seven.  [00:12:39] Jason: Got it. Okay. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Who's the other one you said there were two? Josh. Josh? Yeah. What's the deal with Josh? [00:12:46] Sarah: Josh had about 300 doors and his whole team was kind of like a hodgepodge of people. Not that he was super overstaffed, but just people weren't in the right seats. And when you have the right people, but you're not putting them to the best like use, then you kind of still run into issues. And Josh, same thing, no operator. There was no operator on the team and largely he was kind of handling operations and he is like, I don't mind doing it. I like doing it, but I don't want to be the only one doing it, and I don't want it to always fall on me. Mm. So what we're doing with him is he had a VA that he had let go, like right in the middle of our talks. And he said, Hey, I'm hiring a new va. I said, great, let's like test the new VA to see if they're going to be a good fit. And then he decided, like we shifted his team around a couple of times and like through the assessments realized and he had talked with you. This was the one that we took who he thought was going to be the property manager and then put her in the BDM role instead. Mm-hmm. Because he is like, well, I don't know how to like, make everything work. So now he's he's going to have like a whole different team structure. Not that he had to let anybody go. He wasn't like crazy overstaffed. It's just he still wasn't super profitable because he didn't have the right people in the right spots. And he didn't have anyone doing the operations. Mm. You can get as big as you'd like, but if you don't have someone handling the operations, and this is that back end piece, this is not front end stuff, like everyone always, this is what we start with, is we start doing front end stuff. Because when you start your business, you are doing the front end stuff, you're doing the leasing, and you're doing the showings, and you're talking to tenants, and you're handling the maintenance.  [00:14:37] This is all the front end stuff. This is the stuff that absolutely must be done just to make sure that the business runs. When your business reaches a certain size, you now need to have someone doing the backend stuff. Mm-hmm. And if you're not having anyone doing like the backend stuff, which is like, hey, making sure that everyone on the team is following the same direction and everybody is contributing to the vision of the CEO and running things like your daily huddles and your strategic planning and doing hiring and firing and getting job descriptions, doing team reviews like. For those of you that are hearing all of this and you're going, blah, that sounds horrible, then it means you're probably not the operator. And at some point, if you're not an operator, it's okay. Jason's not an operator, like he doesn't like that. It's not his brain functions. So you need the counterpart whose brain does function like that, and that would be me. [00:15:29] Jason: I like to build out the systems and I must have been mis mixing up Josh's team. I think you did team with Kevin, so I think you did. Yeah, I remember Josh. So the most important person you'll ever hire in your business will be the operator. That's very true. And because visionary entrepreneurs do not like the details. I like building out the systems. I like creating DoorGrow, hiring and DoorGrow os and these systems. But I don't want to run them in my own business. I want someone else to run them because running those things is not as fun and it actually, the results are not as good because especially with planning, if I run all the planning, it's not as good. Bad, and so bad. [00:16:09] Sarah: There was one week where I couldn't run the planning meeting because I was on a flight and I said, can you just run the planning meeting? And he did it. And I came back and I was like, I don't know what happened in here, but this is bad.  [00:16:20] Jason: It was okay. I did just fine. It was bad. So the issue-- just fine. The issue is it's not fun for me to run the meetings, but also when it comes to like actual strategic planning, we as the visionary or as the main leader of the business, or even as the operator, we have to be the last to speak. Otherwise, we influence things. And if I run the meeting, it's really hard for me not to say certain things and not to steer things a certain way. [00:16:48] And so I don't get as valid of feedback from the team. I don't get as valid of information. So what happens is as visionaries, a lot of times we think we have all the best ideas. And it's not generally true, right? Our team members are closer and more connected to what's actually happening on the ground, and they can see things we can't see, and they have ideas that we don't have, and they can share these things with us, and we can get their buy-in into the plan if they help create it. [00:17:16] But when we are just top down pushing everything, because we think we're the visionary, and this is one reason I really don't like EOS. One of the big fundamental flaws in EOS is they intentionally overinflate the ego of the visionary. The visionary has all the best ideas and they're so important, and that feeds the ego and it helps them to sell integrators, which in their accountability chart, they place the visionary at the top, and then they have a line going down. And this is just a fancy name for a stupid org chart that doesn't make sense, but you have the visionary connected to the operator. Which they call an integrator. And the integrator then is connected to everyone else on the team. This is one of the most flawed structures I've ever seen, and nobody runs their business this way because integrators or operators are not the people that should be over sales and marketing generally. They're not the people that, because they have a very different personality type, they're opposite. And they want to conserve and they want to make sure money is handled well and they don't want to take risks and they don't want to, like, this is more stuff for maybe your head of sales and marketing or maybe your BDM or whoever you want to place in your executive team. They're really usually equals, but they have to report their stats. Everybody reports their stats to the operator. And so the challenge is we have to have a system in which the team can all give feedback and give information first, and it isn't top down. It's really bottom up. And this is how we designed DoorGrow Os and why people that come from the EOS system get a much bigger result and a bigger yield from their team and much more profitability than they were able to get under u s or traction or rocket fuel, right? [00:19:00] These are some of the things that Sarah's able to do with some of our clients. And I have to say, it's amazing to be able to have somebody that I can trust to not just understand all this stuff. Because she, she's super sharp but also to be able to teach it to clients and to be able to help clients work through all of this and trust that it's just going to be handled and that's really what we want in a great member of our team or in a business partner. [00:19:25] Or with anybody that we work with, we want people that we can trust to just handle stuff and to do it well. Sarah does it really well, so, what else should we say about you?  [00:19:36] Sarah: I think that's just how my brain works. Like every job that I've ever worked before I owned my own business, I would be there for a little bit and it was super clear to me like, Hey, if we make these changes or if we do these things differently, or if we just shift this a little bit, it's going to be better and here's how it's going to be better and why. [00:19:55] And it's so frustrating for me when you know, like I was at multiple insurance companies. Before like I kind of got into property management and I on all of them, I was like, oh, we could just do it like this. Well, we don't do it like that. I'm like, I know you don't do it like that, but you should do it like that and here's why. And when it's frustrating for me where I'm like, oh, you could just make these changes and you could do things like this. And this is just how I think my, my brain is just wired to work. because I can like look at the overall picture of things and I'm like, well, why do we do things like this? You could do it like this instead and we should change this and this should be different. And that's really good. This is really great. Keep this, but change this little thing. And then these are the results that you'll have. And at all of the insurance companies I had worked with prior, I had like made some suggestions and they're like, oh no, we're not going to do that. We can't do that, we can't do that. So I think looking back, it's funny for me because I'm like, oh well yeah, I was kind of, almost like destined to like get in and, and run my own business because then if I think, Hey, we should do things like this because of this, then I can just do them. I don't have to go and ask like, oh, hey, can I really think this would help your business? Like, we can do it. And they're like, no.  [00:21:08] So now, like, just looking back, I'm just able to kind of pick it apart and see things that sometimes other people don't see because you're just, you're too close to it. Mm. And, and it's it's personal for people too. They're like, oh, this is my business and I'm really proud of it and this, I worked so hard and I know, like, I know what goes into running a business. Like I know it, blood, sweat, and tears doesn't even begin to cover it. I understand that. And that being said, I think that's one of the reasons why you should be looking to improve it. So if you can make a few small changes, like your, your ego might have a little bit of a bruise, right? But is it worth the trade off? Like, is the bruised ego worth a better, more profitable business that takes, a lot more off your plate and is less stressful? So for sometimes, sometimes people are like, no. I don't want that. I just want to know that I have all the answers and I'm right all the time, and that's okay. [00:22:02] Jason: All right, so what's unique about Sarah, and some of you might identify with her a little bit. So in Myers-Brigg, she's probably an INTJ.  [00:22:13] Sarah: Well, not probably, I'm like the epitome of INTJ. [00:22:16] Jason: So INTJ. Is very intuitive. They are introverted. They're a thinker and they're judging. Now INTJs are because they're super intuitive. They're called the strategist because they're logical and they figure out solutions to things, but what's I think really in interesting, and I think there's women's intuition and she's very intuitive. She just knows things without knowing why it's true. Mm, yeah. Like she's like, there's a problem over here in the, in our business or there's a problem over here and I don't know why, but it, something's not right. So. And what's frustrating is I will say no. I don't see it. Like everything's fine. And she's always right. She loves when I say, you were right. She loves it a little too much by the way. But she's usually right. And so I've learned to trust her intuition tuition and sometimes I think our unconscious. Has a lot of information and can process a lot more than our conscious mind can and picks up on little details and things. Mm-hmm. And has worked some things out and just knows things and it bubbles up to the surface of our conscious mind and we're like, Hey, something's off here. And she gets these flashes of intuition that when there's like some sort of threat and things like this as well. So I've learned to trust your intuition because it's proven accurate multiple times. And I've always considered myself fairly intuitive in the business, but her intuition is kind of next level. And so I think being able to trust your gut and having a partner in the business or some, or an operator that you can trust, their gut can have a significant impact as well. [00:23:52] So I'm a bit opposite of her. I'm an ENTP. So we both are the intuitive, which is the n and we're both thinkers. Thinkers. But. I am a bit more extroverted probably. Even though I really feel like an introvert a lot of times, but I like need to be around some people occasionally. [00:24:12] Sarah: Well, I know, but you usually like will kind of, you'll you'll break in that arena before I do. You're like, we like I just want to get out of the house and be around people and I'm like, oh, I don't.  [00:24:22] Jason: Yeah. And then I'm definitely more, we think very differently. Like very differently. Mm-hmm. I'm perceiving and you're judging and perceiving means my desk is chaos right now. If you could see it. And it means I love pulling in ideas from lots of different places. I have a crazy variety of books on the bookshelf over here. I've like, I pull in things from a lot of places to formulate my thinking. Then I'm able to formulate some new ideas and I'm very creative that way. And that's part of, I think why we have such great IP at DoorGrow. I get a lot of coaching and a lot of input from different sources and we improve those ideas and we have, I think, the best ideas and innovate the quickest in the coaching space in this industry period, maybe out of a lot of coaching businesses. We consult and share ideas with other coaches and coaching businesses as well that we're in Masterminds with. I don't want to do all the implementation. I don't want to make sure everything gets done. And so I'll be like, Hey, here's this great idea, but Sarah also brings really great ideas to the table. She's like, Hey, I had this idea. And then she'll just rapidly implement, like she just gets it done. She's like, Hey, let's do this premium Mastermind event and have people, we'll rent out an Airbnb and we'll get people to go and we'll do this and it'll be awesome. And I'm like okay. And she just makes it happen. Sells all the tickets to it, gets everything organized. I just showed up and got to look cool and she made it all happen. [00:25:50] He's like, what are we doing at this event?  [00:25:52] I showed up, I'm like, so what are we doing?  [00:25:54] He's like, what are we even doing? I'm like, just-- [00:25:56] I'm like, okay, Sarah's leading this. So that was our last DoorGrow Live too. Like Mar-- Yes, that's true-- my assistant who did a lot of planning and Sarah like, handled some of the details and ideas and I was just like, all right, I'm just here. I'm the tech guy. [00:26:11] Sarah: Just when we call your name, get to the stage, just go up there.  [00:26:14] Jason: Yeah. When, when it's your turn, Jason, you go speak and talk about something and I did. So that's kind of how we work together. So, what else should we say about Sarah? She's still working on getting her last name changed because it was Hall and she's switching it to Hull. [00:26:31] Sarah: Well, right now, I really don't know what it is. Yeah. Truly. I don't know because the Social Security office has me as Hull.  [00:26:39] Jason: So you got to change. Yeah. To my last name.  [00:26:41] Sarah: Yeah. But the DMV is like, so super booked out.  [00:26:46] Jason: So not, not in Texas yet. Your license doesn't say it yet.  [00:26:50] Sarah: No, no. Not my license doesn't say it yet, but my social security card does. [00:26:56] Jason: So, and your social media, I think you've changed most of it. I changed it before. Long before this. Yeah. So, but Hall's her ex-husband's last name, so yeah. So I'm trying to like, he's trying to buy a vow. I'm trying to buy that vow. I think I paid for that vow. What's on your neck and on your finger. And I think I've, I think I've accomplished that. I don't know. I don't know. So, cool. And I don't know what else, what else should we say?  [00:27:24] So Sarah's one of the key coaches in our business here at DoorGrow. Our mission is to transform property management, business owners and their businesses, and she does that like, she helps to do that. She runs a lot of the group coaching calls when I'm focused on other things in the business, which is awesome that I have somebody I can trust to do that at a really high level and to do it really well and clients really appreciate her test.  [00:27:49] Sarah: When you're busy, I run the whole scale call. Yes, every single week. [00:27:54] Jason: Well, you do. You go beyond that. You also run some, some of the other calls that I-- Yeah, for sure. I used to run every call. You can run every call. So, yeah, which is awesome. All right, well I think, for those of you that you want to experience some of the magic of Sarah and improve your operations, you're struggling with things, your profit margin is not what you wish it would be, and you think you need more kPIs and micromanaging and to like squeeze more juice out of your team. That's probably, there might be a little bit of truth to that, but generally you'd probably need a better team or you need to optimize your team and that's one of the most profitable changes you should make first before you start messing with micromanagement, KPIs, more pressure, stuff like that. You need to make sure first you have the right team, and here's the clue that you don't have the right team: your day to day is something you don't enjoy doing every day. If you're still wearing hats that you don't enjoy doing and you've built an entire team around you, and you're the wrong person in the roles that you're sitting in, then you've built the wrong team around you. [00:29:05] It's pretty obvious if you look at it from that perspective. You can't build the right team around the wrong person. Can't build the right team around the wrong person. So, we can help you make sure first, who are you, we can help you figure that out, and what do you really enjoy? And we have processes for that. And then we can start to build the right team around you so that you are supported and you get to move closer and closer to having more fulfillment in your day-to-day. More freedom, more contribution, and more support. And then your team members will be able to have those four things and you'll get probably three times the output from those team members. And that's the biggest expense and that will give you the biggest profit in your business if you can get these systems in place that we can help install. With DoorGrow OS and DoorGrow hiring and DoorGrow Flow and DoorGrow, CRM and DoorGrow. What am I missing? Flow hiring, crm, you said all of software. Those are our software. Okay, cool. Which we call our super system. So we're going to be doing this event on the 22nd, talking about priorities and how to increase your profit margin and how to decrease operational costs. We hope to see you there and or watch the replay if you see this later. Make sure to reach out to DoorGrow if you would like to experience some Sarah Magic. And until next time to our mutual growth, everyone.  [00:30:26] Jason Hull: You just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:30:53] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

“The idea was to create a little bit of a middle of the road option that's a more stepwise option that makes it a cool brand. That's also a stepwise way to maybe not have such an excessive amount of sugar and caffeine in a beverage,” explains Dr. Jason Romesburg, founder of Running Lights Beverage, a beverage start-up based out of Williamsburg, Virginia. Dr. Jason is a practicing neuro-radiologist who never anticipated himself pursuing entrepreneurship, especially outside of healthcare. Looking back on his journey, he found that he had been employing entrepreneurial skills while trying to build an interventional radiology clinic. In today's episode, Dr. Jason details what he learned through attempting to start the radiology clinic and how he applied those lessons to his beverage start-up. Dr. Jason's idea for his beverage was to make a healthier alternative to the major soda brands, one with more moderate levels of caffeine and less of an excessive amount of sugar. After making mistakes while opening the radiology clinic that caused a lot of debt to accrue, he knew that he would need to approach the beverage start-up more strategically. Instead of operating out of debt, he now understood the importance of bringing on a white coat investor, being keenly aware of everyone involved in the business, and not buying brand new equipment and supplies. For a start-up to succeed, you really have to put your all into it. If you're going to be using your own money, consider going in with an investor so that you are not immediately operating from a place of debt. Learn more about the lessons Dr. Jason picked up along his entrepreneurial journey. Quotes “I had to start to think about selling myself, even though I didn't like to think about it that way.” (11:43-11:47 | Dr. Jason) “It's not going to work unless you really put your all into it.” (21:13-21:17 | Dr. Jason) “If I am going to do something like a business where I have to invest my money, I'm going to, first of all, know intimately the people that are involved.” (21:27-21:38 | Dr. Jason) “The idea was to create a little bit of a middle of the road option that's a more stepwise option that makes it a cool brand. That's also a stepwise way to maybe not have such an excessive amount of sugar and caffeine in a beverage.” (36:45-36:59 | Dr. Jason) Connect with Dr. Jason Romesburg: Website: www.runninglightsbeverage.com Personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/radlifeRL/ Don't forget to visit the website: https://www.behelpfulpodcast.com/ Start Your Side Hustle: https://www.yencil.com Follow the show's socials: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/behelpfulpodcast/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behelpfulpodcast/ @behelpfulpodcast YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7ZNyAUhGQYfTETUJm-hnHw Please don't forget to rate, comment, and subscribe to Be Helpful Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts! Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/behelpfulpodcast/message

As you grow your team, you're likely to find your role changing as you offload some of your tasks. Today's guest, Jason Dodge, started his search engine optimization (SEO) business, BlackTruck Media + Marketing, 14 years ago and his role continues to evolve as his company grows and the market changes.In this episode of The Clarity Advisors Show, Jason explains to host Ken Trupke exactly what search engine optimization is and shares what he's learned while building a team in a fast-paced, ever-changing industry.Episode HighlightsWhat search engine optimization is, how the industry is evolving, and the difference between SEO companies.The evolution of a leader's role as the team grows.Integrating interns and contractors into the team.Timestamps(01:06): How Jason got into the SEO field.(02:04): Defining search engine optimization.(03:00): Differences between organic and paid search.(03:44): How Jason's role has evolved as BlackTruck has grown.(08:44): Adding the first team member after five years in business.(09:38): Next steps in growth.(11:02): The value of interns.(12:45): Evolving while growing.(14:58): Generalists vs. specialists.(16:48): Using contractors for back-office roles.(19:28): Lessons learned over 14 years.(23:03): Difference in SEO companies.(26:06): Origin of “Black Truck Media” name.(26:42): What Jason's reading.(28:37): Ways to connect with Jason. Episode Quotes“I'm a firm believer that interns need to be paid. If they're getting value out of it and you are getting value out of it, there needs to be an exchange there.” (Jason)“One thing that you have to understand, if you are scaling responsibly, is when you need to jump in and be on the dance floor and when you need to get out.” (Jason)“It really comes down to three to four kinds of pillars. That's transparency and honesty – you can lump those two together – and empathy and advocacy. Those are the things that really stand out to me.” (Jason)“Lead with empathy and consider the fact that your team has a life outside of work. As a business owner or entrepreneur, keep in mind that nobody is going to be as passionate about your business as you are.” (Jason)“I'm upfront with everyone in the interview process that I'm not a mind reader. You have to be an advocate for yourself, for the business, and for your client. You have to be an advocate for the things that you want.” (Jason)Jason Dodge's Recommended ReadingSYSTEMology, by David JenynsScaling Up, by Verne HarnishWhat the Heck Is EOS? by Gino WickmanTraction, by Gino WickmanFollow/Connect with Jason Dodgejason@blacktruckmedia.comblacktruckmedia.comJason Dodge on TwitterJason Dodge on LinkedIn

Too many property management entrepreneurs fail to realize the potential for technology to increase the operating margin in their property management business.  Property management growth expert Jason Hull invites Lindsay Liu to discuss how property management entrepreneurs can utilize technology to make their lives (and the lives of their tenants and owners) WAY easier by automating administrative tasks. You'll Learn… [01:39] Meet Linday Liu, the Technology and Real Estate Investing Expert [03:42] The Ultimate Software for Multi-Family and Governance [08:13] Diving into the Features of Super [17:19] The Biggest Challenge in Property Management: TIME [22:00] How is Super different from Other Software? Tweetables “When I think about what makes the property management industry so challenging… time is your biggest premium.” “And at the end of the day, what are people best for? Dealing with the human side of things.” “It's better to be extremely good at a small number of things than it is to be mediocre at a wide range of things.” “The amount of care that needs to go into maintaining a healthy building is just inherently more complex when you have more stakeholders and parties in a multifamily set up.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Lindsay: When I think about what makes the property management industry so challenging, it really is time is your biggest premium, right? It is a very manual and people oriented set of tasks, right, that need to be done. And at the end of the day, what are people best for? Dealing with the human side of things, right? And so where can we come in? We can come in and help them with all of the other type of administrative, repetitive work that is not as high value from a people perspective, but is definitely very high value from an operational perspective. [00:00:29] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow Hackers to The DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you're interested in growing in business and life and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow hacker. DoorGrow Hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:01:07] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management, business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show.  [00:01:31] All right, today my guest is Lindsay Liu. Lindsay, welcome to The DoorGrow Show.  [00:01:37] Lindsay: Thanks so much for having me today.  [00:01:39] Jason: So give us a little bit of background on yourself for those that don't know Lindsay, which is me as well. So tell us a little bit about you and then maybe how you sort of got connected to your business, and then we'll go into your business.  [00:01:52] Lindsay: Great. Yeah, I can go back in time a bit. So professionally, I've been in the technology space for almost 15 years now. So building, launching digital products on behalf of and with companies. So I've done that for folks like Google, Amazon, Mercedes-Benz, the MBA. And then I've also been part of growing the businesses that I've been on that side of, right, really thinking about finding product market fit, creating value propositions that make sense through the lens of technology. And then more recently ventured into the startup world. So I was at a FinTech startup for a bit, actually launched a whole new stock exchange and a software platform around that. And then it finally felt like time to build my own thing out. And the reason that I got into the property management space is that kind of alongside that professional track of work. I'd also been investing in real estate and properties. So I have everything from short-term rentals-- so I've been kind of Airbnb, vacation homes-- to long-term leases and tenants to having done some flips over time. And the common thread with that for me was really just that when you are dealing with the maintenance, when you are dealing with an investment and you're really looking to make that place a home. And a home that's going to grow in value over time. There was just a lot left to be desired in the technology space. And so I thought, why not bring these two passions together? Right? My expertise in technology, alongside my passion in real estate, and start to solve some problems for the space.  [00:03:24] Jason: Awesome. And being passionate about real estate is one thing, but also being super technologically savvy and into technology is a whole different thing. And so that's cool that you're able to merge these two things together and why don't you tell everybody what you came up with?  [00:03:42] Lindsay: Yeah, so I'm the co-founder of Super. Super is a software platform really geared for property management and what we're building is for the multi-family residential space.  [00:03:54] Jason: Okay. [00:03:54] Lindsay: So we're really looking to build tools that help with efficiency, productivity, streamlining communication, and transparency across all of the different players that exist in the ecosystem of maintaining a healthy building. So we have tools for property managers and their management teams. We have tools for sponsors and developers as well. And obviously for board members, owners, and residents of those buildings as well.  [00:04:19] Jason: Got it. So what makes this particular to multifamily instead of other niches in property management?    [00:04:27] Lindsay: Yeah, I think, you know, in my experience anyway, multifamily is a really unique situation, right? You have a group of people that are paying in for the shared maintenance and so things like repairing a roof, that decision becomes really difficult and more complicated when you're dealing with 50 or a hundred people that are part of making that decision and funding that. And so the governance and the amount of care that needs to go into maintaining a healthy building is just inherently more complex when you have more stakeholders and parties in a multifamily set up versus single family. And so we thought we would start with that pain point first. We definitely have big ambitions to continue to grow to support other types of real estate. But the multi-family space felt really like the place where we could solve some immediate pain points for folks.  [00:05:13] Jason: Got it. So when you talk about governance, this manages a little bit of the association sort of situation as well. [00:05:20] Lindsay: Exactly. Yep. So homeowners associations, condos, co-ops, really thinking about the types of tools that are needed to help accelerate decision making and help gain alignment as. Okay, cool. Random questions then. Would this work for HOAs that are not multifamily? Absolutely. We have built the tool with that in mind, knowing that we would need to expand into that. In the case of, you know, for instance, homeowners associations, I think that the level of types of challenges really depends on that community and how healthy it is on its own, right? So the number of shared amenities that you might have, the amount that you're paying in for that shared maintenance and for your common charges. And so, you know, I think if it's just you're paying in for lawn maintenance, that's a different type of responsibility set than if you have, let's say a pool with you know, many common areas that need to be maintained for that homeowner's association as well.  [00:06:17] Jason: Now, is this a tool that a property management company that already has some sort of property management software, they have rent manager or they have Resonant or you know, some sort, is this something that they would use in conjunction or is this replacing that? [00:06:33] Lindsay: I think we've really intentionally built the product to play very well and to play nice and be complimentary to whatever other suite. I think I deeply recognize that each management company already is going to have its own tech stack, right? Whether that's as simple as: we use email and we have a phone service and we use some out-of-the-box tools like, you know, maybe Slack or Trello or Basecamps, something like that. All the way to: we're using Yardi or we're using, you know, a number of other different types of software. I think our perspective on that is one of the challenges for management teams is how siloed a lot of these different solutions are, and the ability to really pull some of that data together and have that play nicely is pretty powerful on its own. [00:07:17] Jason: Yeah, I think integrations are going to be a big deal here in the future for property management. I feel like that's a space that's kind of lagged and there's a lot of companies that will integrate with vendors' property management software. But the challenge is trying to get the entire tech stack integrated can be a mess. [00:07:33] Lindsay: And I think that's exactly where I stand is from what we're trying to build the reason I've been pretty specific around that group that we're building for today, right? We're an early stage startup, is it's better to be extremely good at a small number of things than it is to be mediocre at a wide range of things as well. Right? So we really want to figure out what is the core that we're solving for? What are the biggest pain points that we should be building against, and be the experts in that. And then where we aren't, we want to make sure that we are playing nicely with the people that are the experts in that field.  [00:08:03] Jason: I agree. So tell us what Super does. Tell us about it. Tell us about the features... [00:08:09] Lindsay: mm-hmm.  [00:08:09] Jason: ...and how you can use it and what problems does this solve?  [00:08:12] Lindsay: Yeah, absolutely. So at the core, I would say first thing is to really think about us from the lens of a productivity tool, right? So it's software that is supposed to help you save time, save money, and be more efficient. So from a property manager perspective, really this is about increasing your operational efficiency and therefore your operating margin, right? You'll be able to do more things in less time. And so to enable that, we built what we call like an operating core for sets of features and functionality that allow for that. So one of the main things that we're solving for right now is communication. And I think that is the piece that again, and again and again keeps coming up. When you talk to management teams and the residents it's a pain point on both sides, right? Where maybe a request is coming in and the resident is wondering "what happened with that? What is the status of it? Did it ever get done?" And then on the other end, the management team is saying, "I'm so busy getting the thing done. I just forgot to update you on that." Right? And so there's a lot of this unnecessary friction that is happening that we think is a great opportunity for technology to automate.  [00:09:19] And the other thing that we're doing quite differently is we believe that consumers today are quite tired of having to download another app or to learn a whole new experience in order to use something. And what we've realized is we should remove all of that friction and just use the tools that people like to use today and that frankly do work for that baseline communication. So people like to email, and they like to text. So we've built our entire platform around enabling communication around email and text. And what happens is our system is going to parse all of that information and give the managers a really nice dashboard that says "We recognize who this person is, they emailed in, and we're going to make that task automatically for you." So we're really kind of short-cutting some of those steps between if someone emails you today, you have to go look it up. Right? Which property they're in, who they're with, their history, and then you have to go and create that ticket. We do all of that automatically.  [00:10:11] Jason: Got it. So maybe to showcase this audibly, why don't you walk us through an example scenario involving all the parties and how it's facilitating the communication. [00:10:22] Lindsay: Sure. Let's take a really common one. Someone's got a leak, right? And they think it's the most urgent thing in the world, right? So what they would do if they are using Super, is the resident would either email or text the dedicated phone number that property has. So let's say, you know, I don't know, 1 23 HOA , right? Is going to email and say, "I have a leak in my unit." They don't even have to say, "I'm in unit one A or whatever." We recognize who that user is and we're automatically going to create the task in Super. For the resident, what's going to happen is because they emailed it in, we will automatically send them the confirmation, acknowledging receipt as well, and say, "Hey, we got this," and it will automatically be assigned to the property manager that is responsible for that. That property manager, right, will then get notified that they have a new task that's been assigned to them and they can go in and they can say, "okay, maybe I need to reassign this to the Super that's on staff, right, to go and take a look at this. Or maybe I need to bring in an external vendor, right? I maybe I need the plumbing company to come by and see if this is happening from something that we knew was happening with the toilet upstairs, above that unit," right? [00:11:29] So they can then bring in the appropriate parties and liaise with all of them within the platform. They can also update the resident within there. So they could just write back and kind of say, "Hey, we're on this. Don't worry, I'm going to send somebody out right now." And that resident's going to get an immediate paper trail of all of that communication. As soon as this issue is resolved, if the management team marks it as done, the resident's going to get feedback saying, this task has been marked as complete. So we're really closing those feedback loops, making sure that that communication, right, any of those gaps where we can automate with technology, we're using technology to do that. So it's just going to save you those minutes every single day on those repetitive types of emails and communication that have to be made so that you can just move on to doing something else with your day. [00:12:14] Jason: Okay, now what you described is like a really cool maintenance coordination tool. Right? So it's helping to coordinate maintenance. Does Super go beyond maintenance coordination, or is that-- [00:12:25] Lindsay: Yeah, absolutely, and this is where things start to get really exciting, right? So think about in that homeowner's association example, you have a board, they have to run regular board meetings. They have the annual owners meeting. We have templates that allow them to support that governance. So think about a task. There's a certain type of task, right? That is just about board meetings and owners meetings. And so what we'll do is we'll create that schedule for them. We'll set a preset agenda. They can update that at any time. They can add all of the board members to it. And then once those minutes are in there, they use that right to log the discussion that they had and next steps. That is saved, and you don't even have to go and create a separate minutes document. It's already there for you to go and look at over time. [00:13:07] For board members, we also have things like quick polling. So if you need to make a decision on something. I don't know about you, but the times that I've been on boards you're, you know, making a decision on an email thread that's already 70 emails deep, and by the time someone says, "Hey, can you all decide on this?" someone chimes in with something else, and suddenly you're talking better than a topic, and three weeks later, no decision has been made. So we're really trying to make everything very actionable and it's just, you know, it's the fact that if email is the most prevalent tool you're using, it's just not the right tool for creating actionable conversations, right? And so we're trying to build that tooling into a platform that is purpose-built for property management. We also have tools around, obviously all of your file management documentation and storage. That's I think, another challenge with email is you have turnover, you have, you know, for instance, board members that leave and all of that historical information today goes with them. [00:14:00] I'm still getting emails from boards that I was on years ago being like, "Hey, do you remember that vendor that we used for that thing? Do you happen to have that contract somewhere? You can look for it." That should never be something that happens with good governance of a building, right? So we centralize and store all of that information on behalf of the buildings. We help them keep their contact directories really nice and clean and updated. And then we have a whole finances component as well where we help them visualize these really simple real-time dashboards for what's going on with the association's health, how much are they taking in, how much are they spending every single month? You can kind of look at that throughout the year, dive into transactions, and then the next thing we'll be rolling out is the ability to accept and receive those monthly payments as well.  [00:14:45] Jason: Okay. Very cool. All right, so the two, it sounds like so far, I don't know if there's anything else, but the two big components of this are maintenance, coordination, and then the HOA governance and board meetings and documentation, storage and dashboards. [00:15:02] Lindsay: Yeah, I mean, if I think about the things that I wish I had as a board member in my previous-- and I've been on the board of three condos at this point, so I'm just pulling from those personal experiences. I wish that I had a way-- what was that?  [00:15:14] Jason: You're a brave person or a glutton for punishment. I don't know. There's a-- [00:15:18] Lindsay: I know  [00:15:19] Jason: --individual that chooses be on a board of an association.  [00:15:22] Lindsay: Well, you know, it's funny because the first time I joined, I remember a friend of mine being like, he was on the board of his co-op. He was like, "don't do it. Just don't do it. Like you're never going to have a life when you go home." And I was like, "I just feel like I'm really able to solve problems and I'm a really proactive person." then I got on and now I'm that person that tells people, I'm like, "I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Like, good luck. Good luck to you," so when I think about the thing that I really wish that I had, right, it was that communication piece. I wanted more transparency and visibility into what the property manager was doing, the decisions that were being made, how things were going overall. I wanted that into our building's finances as well, right? How are we doing as far as our targets for what we wanted to be spending from an operating perspective versus how we are tracking? Do we need to think about doing things like raising the fees? Do we need to do things like leverage a special assessment, right? That type of planning. I really wish we had more visibility and transparency into that. Absolutely wish that we just had better governance around the documents, the history of the building, decisions that have been made previously, and tools to help us just operate in a healthier way as well. So we've really built around those cornerstones of what we think are the, kind of the building blocks, the foundation of what a healthy building. [00:16:36] Jason: Okay. Very cool. This sounds really great. So if people have a property management business and they're managing a large building, a multi-family building, and they're dealing with some of this drama, this would be a great tool for them to systematize things, bring the communication together, deal with some of the maintenance coordination, approvals communication transparency, and then also making sure that the meeting stuff is all held in one place. And I would imagine if property managers are implementing this, then this probably is a really great selling point for these property managers that are doing this work that they have this repository that's been built up with the association's help. [00:17:19] Lindsay: Absolutely. I think. When I think about what makes the property management industry so challenging, and I'm sure you have a point of view on this as well it really is time is your biggest premium, right? It is a very manual and people oriented set of tasks, right, that need to be done. And at the end of the day, what are people best for? Dealing with the human side of things, right? The kind of complex logic, the decisioning that needs to go into making sure that this group of people are happy and functioning. That's like totally something that you need a person to be able to manage. And so where can we come in? We can come in and help them with all of the other type of administrative, repetitive work that is not as high value from a people perspective, but is definitely very high value from an operational perspective, right? So where can we help streamline that? And I think that's a value proposition that resonates time and time again. If we say, I can save you minutes every single day on these 10 types of tasks, right? That ladders up to hours at the end of a week that you are saving and on top of that, your residents feel happier, you're going to have more stickiness and retention. These are things that will help the bottom line of a business.  [00:18:29] Jason: Now, I imagine when it comes to associations utilizing a software like this, rather than the property manager, so the property manager would just build this into their fee structure, I would imagine it's part of their services. They can say, "we have this cool tool and system." and they have an advantage because otherwise the association board members, there's always going to be the negative person that's going to try and like say, "Hey, we don't want to spend all this money on this technology or this software. Somebody can do this and we can figure it out ourselves." And how do you deal with that? [00:19:03] Lindsay: Yeah. You know what's interesting is even though we don't specifically target the individual board members in HOAs, we get a lot of inbound from them. [00:19:12] Jason: Yeah.  [00:19:12] Lindsay: People reaching out saying, "I really wish there was a better way. And so if anything, that gives me signal that the residents and the board members are looking for tools. They're looking for a better way to do things. And I think this is, when I think about technology in general and what's happening even in the enterprise space, we've been talking about this consumerization of IT, right? If I can get a Task Rabbit to come and fix a thing for me within 20 minutes and I can know every step of the way, and the payment's just settled, why can't I have that in every other aspect of my life? Why does that have to be so difficult when it comes to getting a plumbing repair done in my apartment? Right? That's the frame of reference that the resident is using is, well, I can get a card just to my door in five minutes with Uber. Like, why is this so difficult? I think more and more we're going to see that is the emerging expectation of residents. They're going to have these high expectations. They're going to expect things to just kind of feel like magic. And so the technology is a great differentiator, if anything, for these property management companies who say, "yeah we're with you on that, and we've already built that into our workflows." [00:20:16] Jason: Yeah. Got it. Cool. So I see on your website you have pricing for associations and for vendors, but really it sounds like you're just targeting people that are managing their own building. And that would be either they own the building and they are the property manager, they're an owner operator or people that are doing third party management. Is that accurate?  [00:20:37] Lindsay: Yeah, that's right, and I think, you know, we're an interesting tool for those that are more on the self-managed side of things, right? So if you're kind of on that cusp of I need some help, we don't take in enough dues to be able to support hiring a property manager. The software is a great solution for that, right? Where it can come in, it can help you take care of, again, a lot of that administrative, operational stuff give you the peace of mind that we've got your back on the main things that you have to get done. And we'll be a fraction of the price of a management company. The audience that we're really focused on building and kind of finding mutual success with, I think is the property management companies though, because at the end of the day, they are the ones that are responsible for just, you know, some of the companies that we work with and talk to, you know, thousands of units and thousands of doors, right? Where that isn't something that we can help find just even greater scale of efficiency with them. And that's great for our business as well, right? To be dealing with one core customer that's highly motivated to pull this into their business and to find the results of it. [00:21:40] Jason: Yeah. So even you would rather deal with one company instead of death by committee. [00:21:46] Lindsay: Learning from the past. We're growing and evolving here.  [00:21:49] Jason: Okay. Cool. Any other major questions that people might or usually ask about this software, about your technology that you want to make them aware of here on the podcast? [00:22:00] Lindsay: Sure. I think one thing that we hear quite a bit is: "how is this different from..." right? because there are other tools out there. I think one of the things that I would say is we're building for 2020 to 2023 even. Right? So we're really trying to bring best in class technology and engineering practices, thinking deeply about things like security, right? Like you've got information about where people live, about their roles in the building, about if they have kids and right all of their history here. That is really, really important actually, that you have a team that is thinking about the best practices for this modern age, where you've just got more and more kind of threats from a cybersecurity and digital perspective. So I would say that's kind of just one thing is just building best in class. Building from the ground up. And I think what we're also doing is we're really learning from all of those past experiences. We're learning from what has worked and we're also learning from what hasn't worked. We're trying to take a very user-centric approach there. And so even with our customers right now, I would say we are always co-creating. They have space to come and tell us what do they want in the roadmap? We feed that back to them. We kind of say, "here's the things we're thinking about," and we are shipping new things every single week. And that's like a really exciting time for us to be in where every single week there's something new to kind of go to a customer and say, "Hey, we now have this. We now have this." And it's a very rich and exciting roadmap ahead. So I think, you know, it's only going to get more exciting as we get into the next year and the beyond.  [00:23:25] Jason: Very cool. So some people might look at the pricing that might go, "you know, I don't know if we can afford this." How do you help people justify the cost? [00:23:34] Lindsay: Yep. There's a few ways, right? So one of the key offerings that we have for New York City buildings specifically, and that's where I'm based and half of our team is based out here, is there's a lot of compliance work that needs to be done. So inspections, filings, just, you know, disclosures that need to be sent. And I just think there's a level of need to stay on top of that in New York City that is just even higher than other places. Even especially, you know, there's new laws rolling up for energy efficiency standards, right? New regulation that really adds a lot of extra layers of complexity. So one of the things that we have done is we've automated those compliance workflows. So we actually can look backwards sometimes, see when you last did a certain inspection and give you a reminder automatically for the next time it's due. So that value prop is really simple. The cost of an average violation, we're probably going to be less than that. So if we can save you that money and that time and that headache dealing with it then that's a really clear one.  [00:24:29] For the property managers, I think it really does come down to we're saving you time. I talked to a boutique management company. This week and the owner operator was like, you know, "minimum wage is going up and with inflation and what's happening in the economy right now, I don't know that I can justify to my customers like they're not going to accept a rate increase, but my costs are going up, right?" I think that's a very real thing right now. And so for these teams to be able to operate with the quality of service they want to continue to maintain and to be able to do so in an environment economically where there's some constriction, there's a lot of sensitivity I think from the residents around price, right? Even on the rental side, just the cost of rent has skyrocketed. And there's just a lot of different factors there. If we can provide you with the way to be able to scale the number of customers that you can take on without having to increase headcount, that's a huge value add for your business. And so those are the types of conversations that I'm really excited to be having with management teams where there's a very clear value exchange of the ability for us to help them build their business and to be there alongside them for that. [00:25:35] Jason: Cool. So it's fair to say if somebody has a multi-unit building, they probably should talk to you guys. [00:25:42] Lindsay: Absolutely. You said it here, so thank you for that. [00:25:46] Jason: It sounds like you're doing some really innovative things, collapsing time, helping to systemize things. It sounds like it fills kind of a unique sort of gap in the marketplace between property management software and you know, what multi-unit buildings and associations over those buildings need and require. You know, the big challenge with associations though is the pet drama, like pets poop in places. Like that's the real stuff right there. That and packages, right? Those are-- [00:26:15] Lindsay: the packages... huge. Especially this time of year. That's something that I tell you, you know, I'm so glad we have such an amazing technology team. We want to figure something out there, because right now the only package scanning apps work. If you have full-time staff, right? If you have a porter there to actually scan the thing for you. So there's something interesting there that we're definitely trying to figure out. So maybe we can talk about that in the future. [00:26:36] Jason: That'll be a future episode.  [00:26:38] Lindsay: Exactly.  [00:26:39] Jason: You've got the pet poop and the packages.  [00:26:42] Lindsay: I first heard about the doggy testing kits like years ago. it was a thing in one of the condos I was on the board of, I was like, whose pet is on the stairwell--  [00:26:52] a database of dog dna, pet DNA inside of your software [00:26:57] See? That feels like priority number one. We'll get on that. [00:27:02] Jason: That's funny. Cool. Well I appreciate you coming on the show. Thanks for coming and sharing this technology with the DoorGrowShow audience. And I wish you success.  [00:27:13] Lindsay: Thank you so much and thanks for having me on. Our website is hiresuper.com. H I R E S U P E R.  [00:27:22] Jason: Perfect. Cool. Check out hiresuper.com if you have a multi-family building. All right, thank you, Lindsay.  [00:27:29] Lindsay: Awesome. Thanks, Jason.  [00:27:30] Jason: All right, so everybody go check out Hire Super. And we appreciate you listening to our show. Please like and subscribe if you're following us on some channels that'll allow you to do that. And please leave us some positive feedback and review. We'd appreciate it greatly. And check us out at DoorGrow. If you're wanting to grow your business, we highly recommend if you are in the single family residential space, check out our DoorGrow Code. Talk to our team and find out about the DoorGrow Code, which is the journey for an entrepreneur going from zero to a thousand plus doors. And until next time, to our mutual growth. Bye, everyone.  [00:28:05] Jason Hull: You just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:28:32] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

By popular request, Entrepreneur editor-in-chief Jason Feifer returns for a follow-up episode devoted to the fundamentals of starting and building franchises, a pillar of the Entrepreneur ecosystem.Starting from the very basics, James peppers Jason with the critical few questions necessary to understanding how franchises operate, which types of business are suited to part-time operators, and what kind of financial returns a franchisee might expect based on their business.Additional Topics Include:Jason: "What is the minimum amount of me a job requires so that I can figure out how to expand myself in other directions?" (03:28)James: "You only learn something by doing that something" (04:55)James: "80% of the learning is doing what you have to do"Jason: "It is only to your benefit that people do things outside of what you're asking them to do." (07:36)Entrepreneur's evolution from within the franchise space to brand independence (09:49)How do you build wealth from a franchise? (27:38)Franchise Disclosure Documents (34:32)Franchise fees and revenue shares (39:14)What type of profit can a franchisee expect (42:57)What franchising success stories has Jason seen (47:25)Has Jason ever considered franchising? (52:41)Editor's note: Topic times don't account for sponsor ads and may appear a few minutes later in the episode on your podcast player)------------Visit Notepd.com to read our idea lists & sign up to create your own!My new book Skip the Line is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever books are sold!Join the You Should Run for President 2.0 Facebook Group, where we discuss why you should run for President.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltucher.com/podcast.------------Thank you so much for listening! If you like this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe  to “The James Altucher Show” wherever you get your podcasts: Apple PodcastsStitcheriHeart RadioSpotifyFollow me on Social Media:YouTubeTwitterFacebook

By popular request, Entrepreneur editor-in-chief Jason Feifer returns for a follow-up episode devoted to the fundamentals of starting and building franchises, a pillar of the Entrepreneur ecosystem.Starting from the very basics, James peppers Jason with the critical few questions necessary to understanding how franchises operate, which types of business are suited to part-time operators, and what kind of financial returns a franchisee might expect based on their business.Additional Topics Include:Jason: "What is the minimum amount of me a job requires so that I can figure out how to expand myself in other directions?" (03:28)James: "You only learn something by doing that something" (04:55)James: "80% of the learning is doing what you have to do"Jason: "It is only to your benefit that people do things outside of what you're asking them to do." (07:36)Entrepreneur's evolution from within the franchise space to brand independence (09:49)How do you build wealth from a franchise? (27:38)Franchise Disclosure Documents (34:32)Franchise fees and revenue shares (39:14)What type of profit can a franchisee expect (42:57)What franchising success stories has Jason seen (47:25)Has Jason ever considered franchising? (52:41)Editor's note: Topic times don't account for sponsor ads and may appear a few minutes later in the episode on your podcast player)------------Visit Notepd.com to read our idea lists & sign up to create your own!My new book Skip the Line is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever books are sold!Join the You Should Run for President 2.0 Facebook Group, where we discuss why you should run for President.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltucher.com/podcast.------------Thank you so much for listening! If you like this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe  to "The James Altucher Show" wherever you get your podcasts: Apple PodcastsStitcheriHeart RadioSpotifyFollow me on Social Media:YouTubeTwitterFacebook ------------What do YOU think of the show? Head to JamesAltucherShow.com/listeners and fill out a short survey that will help us better tailor the podcast to our audience!Are you interested in getting direct answers from James about your question on a podcast? Go to JamesAltucherShow.com/AskAltucher and send in your questions to be answered on the air!------------Visit Notepd.com to read our idea lists & sign up to create your own!My new book, Skip the Line, is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever books are sold!Join the You Should Run for President 2.0 Facebook Group, where we discuss why you should run for President.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltuchershow.com------------Thank you so much for listening! If you like this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to "The James Altucher Show" wherever you get your podcasts: Apple PodcastsiHeart RadioSpotifyFollow me on social media:YouTubeTwitterFacebookLinkedIn

John: Hey, is this thing on?? Jason: It is. So, I recently found out that our Recording Engineer and Editor, Paul, has a secret file of recordings that he calls From The Back Seat. John: Wait…what? So when we are just rambling on about car stuff, he's recording?Jason: Yep.John: Well, that can't be good.Jason: Turns out, it's not too bad. What you are about to hear are some of those recordings. Disclaimer: No car guys were hurt during the making of this episode. Put on your seatbelt. Here we go! Speed over to our friends at RacingJunk.comBe sure to follow Get Out and Drive Podcast on social media!GOND WebsiteIG: Get_Out_N_DriveTwitter  GetOutNDrivePodFB Get.Out.N.Drive.PodcastYouTube https://tinyurl.com/GONDYouTubeJoin our fb group to share pics of how you Get Out N DriveFollow Jason on IGIG @oldecarrguyFollow Jason on fbfb @oldecarrguySubscribe To the Olde Carr Guy YouTube ChannelFollow John on IGIG @customcarnerdFriend John on fbRecording Engineer, Paul MeyerSign Up and Learn more about National Get Out N Drive Day.Grab your Official Decals, Apparel and other cool shirts at GetDriveGear.com   Subscribe to the Str8SixFan YouTube Channel.Be sure to join the coolest place on YouTube on Thursday nights at 7pm CST, The CarrGuy & SixFan Show, powered by the Get Out N Drive Podcast.Music Credit:Licensor's Author Username:LoopsLabLicensee:Get Out N Drive PodcastItem Title:The RockabillyItem URL:https://audiojungle.net/item/the-rockabilly/25802696Item ID:25802696Purchase Date:2022-09-07 22:37:20 UTCSupport the show

John: Hey, is this thing on?? Jason: It is. So, I recently found out that our Recording Engineer and Editor, Paul, has a secret file of recordings that he calls From The Back Seat. John: Wait…what? So when we are just rambling on about car stuff, he's recording?Jason: Yep.John: Well, that can't be good.Jason: Turns out, it's not too bad. What you are about to hear are some of those recordings. Disclaimer: No car guys were hurt during the making of this episode. Put on your seatbelt. Here we go! Speed over to our friends at RacingJunk.comBe sure to follow Get Out and Drive Podcast on social media!GOND WebsiteIG: Get_Out_N_DriveTwitter  GetOutNDrivePodFB Get.Out.N.Drive.PodcastYouTube https://tinyurl.com/GONDYouTubeJoin our fb group to share pics of how you Get Out N DriveFollow Jason on IGIG @oldecarrguyFollow Jason on fbfb @oldecarrguySubscribe To the Olde Carr Guy YouTube ChannelFollow John on IGIG @customcarnerdFriend John on fbRecording Engineer, Paul MeyerSign Up and Learn more about National Get Out N Drive Day.Grab your Official Decals, Apparel and other cool shirts at GetDriveGear.com   Subscribe to the Str8SixFan YouTube Channel.Be sure to join the coolest place on YouTube on Thursday nights at 7pm CST, The CarrGuy & SixFan Show, powered by the Get Out N Drive Podcast.Music Credit:Licensor's Author Username:LoopsLabLicensee:Get Out N Drive PodcastItem Title:The RockabillyItem URL:https://audiojungle.net/item/the-rockabilly/25802696Item ID:25802696Purchase Date:2022-09-07 22:37:20 UTCSupport the show

In this episode, we cover: Mauricio talks about his background and his role at Pismo (1:14) Jason and Mauricio discuss tech and reliability with regards to financial institutions (5:59) Mauricio talks about the work he has done in Chaos Engineering with reliability (10:36) Mauricio discusses things he and his team have done to maximize success (19:44) Mauricio talks about new technologies his team has been utilizing (22:59) Links Referenced: Pismo: https://pismo.io/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pismo/ TranscriptMauricio: That's why the name Cockroach, I guess, if there's a [laugh] a world nuclear war here, all that will survive would be cockroaches in our client's data. [laugh]. So, I guess that's the gist of it.Jason: Welcome to Break Things on Purpose, a podcast about Chaos Engineering and reliability. In this episode, we chat with Mauricio Galdieri, a staff engineer at Pismo about testing versus exploration, reliability and resiliency, and the challenges of bringing new technologies to the financial sector.Jason: Welcome to the show.Mauricio: Hey, thank you. Welcome. Thanks for having me here, Jason.Jason: Yeah. So, Mauricio, you and I have chatted before in the past. We were at Chaos Conf, and you are part of a panel. So, I'm curious, I guess to kick things off, can you tell folks a little bit more about yourself and what you do at Pismo? And then we can maybe pick up from our conversations previously?Mauricio: Okay, awesome. I work as a staff engineer here at Pismo. I work in a squad called staff engineering squad, so we're a bunch of—five squad engineers there. And we're mostly responsible for coming up with new ways of using the existing technology, new technologies for us to have, and also standardize things like how we use those technologies here? How does it fit the whole processes we have here? And how does it fit in the pipelines we have here, also?And so, we do lots of documentation, lots of POCs, and try different things, and we talk to different people from different companies and see how they're solving problems that we also have. So, this is basically our day-to-day activities here. Before that, well, I have a kind of a different story, I guess. Most people that work in this field, have a degree in something like a technical degree or something like that. But I actually graduated as an architect in urban planning, so I came from a completely different field.But I've always worked as a software developer since a long time ago, more than [laugh] willing to disclose. So, at that time when I started working with software development, I like to say that startups were called dotcoms that back then, so, [laugh] there was a lots of job opportunities back then, so I worked as a software developer at that time. And things evolved. I grew less and less as an architect and more as an engineer, so after I graduated, I started to look for a second degree, but on the more technical college, so I went to an engineering college and graduated as a system analyst.So, from then on, I've always worked as a software developer and never, never have done any house planning or house project or something like that. And I really doubt if I could do that right now [laugh] so I may be a lousy architect [in that sense 00:03:32]. But anyway, I've worked in different companies for both in private and public sectors. And I've worked with consultancy firms and so on. But just before I came to Pismo, I went working with a FinTech.So, this is where I was my first contact with the world of finance in a software context. Since then, I've digged deep into this industry, and here I am now working at Pismo, it's for almost five years now.Jason: Wow. That quite a journey. And although it's a unique journey, it's also one that I feel like a lot of folks in tech come from different backgrounds and maybe haven't gone down the traditional computer science route. With that said, you know, one of the things you mentioned FinTech. Can you give us a little bit of a description of Prismo, just so folks understand the company that you're working at now?Mauricio: Oh, yeah. Well, Pismo, it's a company that has about six years now. And we provide infrastructure for financial services. So, we're not banks ourselves, but we provide the infrastructure for banks to build their financial projects with this. So basically, what we do is we manage accounts, we manage those accounts' balances, we have connections with credit card networks, so we process—we're also a credit card processor.We issue cards, although we're not the issuer in this in the strict sense, but we issue cards here and manage all the lifecycle of those cards. And basically, that's it. But we have a very broad offering of products, from account management to accounting management, and transactions management, and spending control limits and stuff. So, we have a very broad product portfolio. But basically, what we do is provide infrastructure for financial services.Jason: That's fascinating to me. So, if I were to sum that up, would it be accurate to say that you're basically like Software as a Service for financial institutions? You do all the heavy lifting?Mauricio: Yeah, yeah. I could say that, yeah.Jason: It's interesting to me because, you know, traditionally, we always think of banks because they need to be regulated and there needs to be a whole lot more security and reliability around finances, we always think of banks as being very slow when it comes to technology. And so, I think it's interesting that, in essence, what you've said with trying the latest technology and getting to play around with new technology and how it applies, especially within your staff engineering group, it's almost the exact opposite. You're sort of this forefront, this leading edge within the world of finance and technology.Mauricio: Yeah. And that actually is, it's something that—it's the most difficult part to sell banks to sign up with us, you know? Because they have those ancient systems running on-premises and most likely running on top of COBOL programs and so on. But at the same time, it's highly, highly reliable. That they've been running those systems for, like, 40 years, even more than that, so it's a very highly reliable.And as you said, it's a very regulated industry, so it's very hard to sell them this kind of new approach to banking. And actually, we consider this as almost an innovation for them. And it's a little bit strange to talk about innovation in a sense that we're proposing other companies to run in the cloud. This doesn't sound innovating at all nowadays. So, every company runs their systems in the cloud nowadays, so it's difficult to [laugh] realize that this is actually innovation in the banking system because they're not used to running those things.And as you said, they're slow in adopting new technologies because of security concerns, and so on. So, we're trying to bring these new things to the table and prove them. And we had to prove banks and other financial institutions that it is possible to run a banking system a hundred percent in the cloud while maintaining security standards and security compliances and governance compliance and all that stuff. It's very hard to do so and we have a very stringent process to evaluate and assess new technologies because we have to make sure it complies with those standards and all those certifications that we need to have in order to operate in this industry. So, it's very hard, but it doesn't—at that same time, we have lots of new technologies and different ways we can provide the same services to those banks.And then I think the most difficult part in this is to map what traditional banks were doing into this new way of doing things in the cloud. So, this mapping, it's sometimes it gets a little confusing and we have to be very patient and very clear with our clients what they should expect from us and how we will provide the same services they already have now, but using different technologies and different ways. For instance, they are used to these communications with different services, they're used to things like webhooks. But webhooks are not reliable; they can fail and if they fail, you lose that connection, you lose connectivity, and you may lose data and you may have things out of sync using webhooks. So, now we have things like event streaming, or queues and other stuff that you can use to [replay 00:09:47] things and not lose any data.But at the same time, you have to process this, and then offline in an asynchronous manner. So, you have to map those synchronous things that they did before to this asynchronous world and this world where things are—we have an eventual consistency. But it's very difficult but it's also at the same time, it's a very fascinating industry.Jason: Yeah, that is fascinating. But I do love how you mentioned taking the idea of the new technology and what it does, and really trying to map that back to previously—you know, those previous practices that they had. And so, along with that, for folks who are listening again, Mauricio and I had a chat during Chaos Conf a while back, and he was sharing some of the practices that Pisma has done for Chaos Engineering. And I always liken that back to, you know, Chaos Engineering really is very similar to traditional disaster recovery testing, in many ways, other than oftentimes, your disaster recovery would never actually, you know, take things down. Mauricio, I'm curious, can you share a little bit more about what you've been doing with Chaos Engineering and in general, with reliability. Are there any new programs or processes that you've worked on within Prismo around Chaos Engineering and reliability?Mauricio: Well, I think that the first thing to realize, and I think this is the most important point that you need to have very clear in your mind when we're talking about Chaos Engineering is that we're not testing something when we're doing Chaos Engineering; we're experimenting with something. And there's a subtle but very important distinction between those two concepts. When you test for something, you're testing for something that you knew what will happen; you have an idea of how it should behave. You're asserting a certain behavior. You know how the system must behave and you assert that, and it makes sure the system doesn't deviate on that by having an automated test, for instance, a unit or integrated test, or even functional tests and such.But Chaos Engineering is more about experimenting. So, it's designed for the unknowns. You don't know what will happen. You're basically experimenting. It's like a lab, you're working in a laboratory, you're trying different stuff and see what happens, you have an idea of what should happen and we call this a hypothesis, but you're not sure if that is how we will behave.And actually, it doesn't matter if it complies with your expectations. Even if it doesn't behave the way you expect it to behave or the way you want it to behave, you're still gaining knowledge about your system. So, it's much more about experimenting new things instead of actually testing for some something that you know about. And our journey here into Chaos Engineering at Pismo, it all began about a year-and-a-half ago when we got a very huge outage on one of our major cloud providers here. And we went down with them; they were out for about almost an hour.But not only we were affected by it, but other digital banks here in Brazil, but also many other services like Slack, Datadog, other observability tools that were running at that time, using that cloud provider went down, together with them. So, it was a major, major outage here. And then we were actually caught off guard on this because we have lots of different ways to make sure the system doesn't go down if something bad happens. But that was so bad that we went down and we couldn't do anything. We were desperate because we couldn't do anything. And also we can even communicate properly because we use Slack as our communication hub, so Slack was down at that time, also, so we cannot communicate properly with our official channels.Also, Datadog that we were using at a time also went down and we couldn't even see what was happening in the system because we didn't have any observability running at the time. So, that was a major, major outage we had there. So, we started thinking about ways we could experiment with those major outages and see how we could find ways of still operating at least partially and not go down entirely or at least have ways to see what was happening even in the face of a major disaster. And those traditional disaster recovery measures that were valid at the time, even those couldn't cope with the kind of outages we were facing at that time. So, we were trying to look for different ways that we can improve the reliability of our services as a whole.So, I guess that's when we started looking into Chaos Engineering and started looking for different tools to make that work, and different partnerships we could find, and even different ways we could experiment this with our existing technology and platform.Jason: I really love how you characterized that difference between testing and Chaos Engineering. And I think the idea of being more experimental puts you into a mindset of having this concept of, you know, kind of blamelessness, right, around failure. The idea that, like, failure is going to happen and we want to be open to seeing that and to learning from it. More so than a test, right? When we test things, then there's the notion of a pass-fail and fails are bad, whereas with an experiment, that learning is, if it didn't happen the way you expect, there's learning around that and that's a good thing rather than a bad thing, such as failing a test.Mauricio: Yeah, and that works in a higher framework, I guess, which is resilience itself. So, I guess, chaos experiment, chaos engineering, and all that stuff, it's an important part of a bigger whole that we call resilience. And I guess a key to understand resilience is that this point exactly, the systems never work in unexpected ways. They always behave the way it is expected to behave. They're deterministic in nature. So, we're talking about machines here, computers. We told them what we want them to do.And even if we have complexity and randomness involved, say if a network connection goes down, it still will behave the way we programmed them to behave. So, every failure should be expected. What we have here is that sometimes they behave in ways we don't want them to behave. And sometimes they behave in ways we want them to behave. So, it's more of a matter of desire, you know? You want something, you want the system to behave a certain way.So, in that sense, success should be measured as a performance variability, you know? So, sometimes it will work the way you want and sometimes it will work your way in ways that you don't want it to behave. And I guess, realizing that, it's key also to understand another point that is, in that sense, success is the flip side of failure. So, either it works the way you want it or it works the way you don't want it. And what we can do to move the scale towards a more successful operation, the ways you can do this, you must first realize also that—let's go back a little bit then say, if you have a failure and you look at why it happened, almost never it is the result of one single thing.Sometimes it is, but this is very rare. Most of the failures and even mainly when we're talking about major failures, they're most likely the result of a context of things that happened that led to this failure. And you can see that the same thing, it's valid for successes. When you have a success at one point, it's almost never the result of one thing that you did that led to a successful scenario. Most of the time is a context of different things you did that maximizes your chances of success.So, to turn this scale towards success, you should create an environment of several things, of a context of things. And this could be tooling, this could be your organizational culture and stuff, all of those things that you do in your company to maximize their chances of success. It's not, you cannot plan for success in the sense because planning is one thing you can do, and planning doesn't involve strategy, for instance. Because planning should be done thinking about things you can do, tasks you can perform, while strategy, you should be turning tables to [laugh] think in terms of strategy. So, you have to put all of this in the same way in a table and try to organize your company and your culture, your tools and your technology in ways you maximize your chances of success and minimize your chances of failures.Jason: That's such an interesting insight. So, I'm curious, can you dive into some of the things that you and your team have done to maximize your chances of success?Mauricio: Okay. When we started working with Chaos Engineering, it was in this sense of trying to do one more thing to maximize our chances of success. And we partnered up with Gremlin and we saw that working with Chaos Engineering, using Gremlin mainly, it's so easy—that is, it's also easy to lose track of what you're doing. It's easy for you to go just for the fun of it and break things down and have fun with it and stuff. So, we had to come up with a way to bring structure to this process.And by doing so, we should also not be too bureaucratic in the sense of creating a set of steps you should take in order to run a chaos session. So, one way we thought about was to come up with a document. That is the bureaucratic part, so this was a step you should take in order to plan for your chaos session, but there is one part of it—and I think it's one of the most important parts of this chaos session planning—is that you should describe what you're going to test, but more importantly, why you're going to test this. And this is one of the most important questions because this is a fundamental question: why you're doing this kind of experiment. And to answer that, you have to think about all the things in context.What are the technologies you're using? Why it fails in the first place? Do the fails that I expect to see are actually fails or is it just different ways of behaving? And sometimes we consider failure in a business rule that was not complied, that was not met. So, this is an opportunity to think about, are those business rules correct? Should we make it more flexible? Should we change those business logic?So, when you start asking why you're doing something, you're asking fundamental questions, and I think that puts you in context. And this is one of the major starting points to maximize our chances of success because it makes every engineer involved in running a chaos session, think about their role in the whole process and the role of their services in the whole company. So, I think this is one powerful question to ask before starting any chaos session, and I think this contributes a lot to a successful outcome.Jason: Yeah, I think that's a really great perspective on how to approach Chaos Engineering. Beyond the Chaos Engineering, you mentioned that the staff engineering group that you're part of that Prismo is really responsible for seeing new technologies and new trends and really trying to bring those in and see how they can be used and applied within the financial services sector. Are there any new technologies that you've used recently or that you're looking at right now that has really been fruitful or really applied to finding more success as you've mentioned?Mauricio: Yeah, there are some things we're researching. One of those already went past research and we're already using it in production, which is data—cloud-based, multi-region databases and multi-cloud—also—databases. And we're working with CockroachDB as one of our new database technologies we use. And it's a database built from the ground up to be ultra resilient. And that's why the name Cockroach, I guess, if there's a [laugh] a world nuclear war here, all that will survive would be cockroaches in our client's data. [laugh]. So, I guess that's the gist of it.And we have to think about that in different ways of how we approach this because we're talking about multi-cloud data stores and multi-region and how we deal with data in different regions. And should we replicate all the data between regions and how we do partition data. So, we have to think in different ways, how we approach data modeling with those new cloud-based and multi-region and globally distributed databases. Another one that we're—this is more like of a research, is having a sharded processing. And that is, how we can deal with, how we group different parts of the data to be processed separately but using the same logic.And this is a way to scale processing in ways that horizontal scaling in a more traditional way doesn't solve in some instances. Like, when we have—for instance, let me describe one scenario that we have that we're exploring things along those lines. We have a system here called ‘The Ledger,' which keeps track of all of the accounts' balances. And for this system, if we have multiple requests or lots of requests for different accounts, there's no problem because we're updating balances for different accounts, and that works fine. And we can deal with lots and lots of requests. We have a very good performance on that.But when we have lots of requests coming in from one particular accounts, and they're all grouped for this particular account, then we cannot—there's no way around locking at some place. So, you have to lock it either at the database level, or at a distributed locking mechanism level, or at the business logic layer. At some point, you have to lock the access to this account balance. So, this degrades performance because you have to wait for this processing to finish and start another. And how can we deal with that without using locks?And this was the challenge we put that to ourselves. And we're exploring different ways, lots of different ways, and different approaches to that. And we have lots of restrictions on that because this system has to respond quickly, has to respond online, and cannot be in an asynchronous process; it has to be synchronous. So, we have very little space for double-checking it and stuff. So, we're exploring a sharded processing for this one in which we can have a small subset of accounts being routed to one specific consumer to process this transaction, and by doing so, we may have things like a queue of order transactions so we can give up locking at the database and maybe improve on performance. But we're still on the POC on that, so let's see what we come up with [laugh] in the next few months.Jason: I think that's really fascinating. Both from a, you know, having been there, having worked on systems where, you know, very transaction-driven, and having locks be an issue. And so, you know, back in my day of doing this, you know, was traditionally MySQL or Postgres, trying to figure out, like, how do you structure the database. So, I think it's interesting that you're sort of tackling this in two ways, right? You've got CockroachDB, which is more oriented towards reliability, but a lot of the things that you're doing there around, you know, sharding and multi-cloud also have effects for this new work that you're doing on how do you eliminate that locking and try to do sharded processes as well. So, that's all super fascinating to me.Mauricio: Exactly. Yeah, yeah. This is one of the things that makes you do better the end of the day, you know? [laugh].Jason: Yeah, definitely. As an engineer, you know, if anybody's listening and you're thinking of, “Wow, this all sounds fascinating and really cool stuff,” right, “Really cool technologies to be working with and really interesting challenges to solve,” I know, Mauricio, you said that Pismo is hiring. Do you want to share a little bit more about ways that folks can engage with you? Or maybe even join your team?Mauricio: Yeah, sure. We're hiring; we have lots of jobs open for application. You can go to pismo.io and we have a section for that. And also, you can find us on LinkedIn; just search for Pismo and then find us there.And I think if you're an engineer and looking for some cool challenges on that, be sure to check our open positions because we do have lots and lots of cool stuff going on here. And since we're growing global, you have a chance to work from wherever you are. And this also imposes some major challenges for [laugh] for new technologies and making our products, our existing products, work in a globally distributed banking system. So, be sure to check out our channels there.Jason: Fantastic. Before we wrap up, is there anything else that you'd like to promote or share?Mauricio: Oh no, I think those are the main channels. You can find us: LinkedIn and our own website, pismo.io. Also, you can find us in some GopherCon conferences, KubeCon, and other—Money20/20; we're attending all of those conferences, be it in the software industry or in the financial industry. You can find this there with a booth there or just visiting or participating in some conferences and so on. So, be sure to check that out there also. I guess that's it.Jason: Very cool well thanks, Mauricio for joining us. It's been a pleasure to chat with you again.Mauricio: Thank you, Jason. And thanks for having me here.Jason: For links to all the information mentioned, visit our website at gremlin.com/podcast. If you liked this episode, subscribe to the Break Things on Purpose podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast platform. Our theme song is called “Battle of Pogs” by Komiku, and it's available on loyaltyfreakmusic.com.