Biz Communication Guy Podcast II

Bill Lampton: Hi there, welcome to The Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy, in our eighth year of hosting The Biz Communication Show. It’s not just my communication tips and strategies that I share with you, but I bring on expert guests who will give us their tips and strategies. And today, coming to us from Nashville, Tennessee, Mike Stewart. Mike and I met at the Georgia Chapter of the National Speakers Association in 1996, and I’ve been a client of his marketing and internet skills ever since. Mike is a songwriter, publisher, and film composer who has played on hit records as a session musician, owned a successful recording studio, played keyboards, guitar, and bass, and written music all his adult life. In fact, he’s a full-time music biz songwriter. I guess we’ll have to say that Mike got a lot of talent that I didn’t music-wise. In 1996, Mike Stewart discovered the power of audio and video marketing with the internet and proceeded to become known worldwide as the “Internet Audio and Video Guy,” making success selling trainings, music, and production hardware. And there’s so much more I could say about him, but I will say that he’s helped many hundreds of clients, including me, learn tools like YouTube, blogging, Facebook, PPC, podcasting, and a whole lot more. Mike’s own statement about his service is: “I want to help those willing to have an open mind about the music biz internet that I passionately love and embrace.” So it’s both a personal and professional privilege to welcome Mike Stewart to The Biz Communication Show. Hello, Mike. Mike Stewart: Hello, Bill. It’s an honor always, and I just want to deliver some good information that’ll help your audience. Bill Lampton: I know that you do that, and you’ve been doing it since the late mid or middle 1990s when I met you. And you’ve done that globally. I’ve been the beneficiary of your marketing and internet strategies. One major question I believe that people would want to have you respond to: let’s take a business professional who wants to market his or her services and do it via the internet, because that’s the way we are going to get to the most people and do it effectively. What would you say are some of the major guidelines and tips? What do you say to a client who comes to you and tells you, “Mike, I need to get a much wider audience, and I need to get more clients, and I need to get more income, and I’ve heard you’re the guy who can do that.” So, what are the next steps, Mike? Mike Stewart: Well, I think one of the things that a lot of people get confused about the internet and the principles of the internet is they don’t break it down into the really bottom-line basics. There’s two things that marketers know matter, and it’s called traffic and conversion. You’d be surprised how many people are confused by those two terms, but traffic is the people, your targeted audience, finding you. If somebody finds you and they’re not interested in you, that’s still traffic. But what you want is targeted traffic—people who would have an interest in the services and products that you provide that solve problems for them. And then conversion is when they find content that you’ve created, whether it be a website, a website page, or what I’m an advocate of: blogging and podcasting. Because what do those pieces of content do? They build relationships that prove to people that you’re the authority and that you have the solution to their problem. So, you have to learn to get traffic, and you have to learn to make conversion information. What is conversion information? That’s somebody that watches, listens, reads something from you, and then they’re convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have a product or service that will solve their problem. If that ever doesn’t get connected, I call it cognitive dissonance. They don’t understand why they need you, so they don’t want you. And you’ve got to dumb it down and make it so simple. A lot of websites out there talk about themselves, but they don’t talk about what’s in it for the end user. So you always have to think about your marketing: “What problems do I solve, and what’s in it for my customer if they hire me?” And so, there’s only three ways to get found or three ways to get traffic. I call it get found on the internet—that’s traffic. In fact, I love the story: my friend Ray Stevens up here in Nashville, he was the inspiration why I moved to Nashville, he said, “Mike, why in God’s name would I put my music on YouTube?” And I said, “Ray, for traffic.” And he says, “Oh, I don’t want traffic. Have you ever driven around here?” And I said, “No, Ray, it’s not cars on the highway. It’s people on the internet who find your content and respond to it.” And he went, “Oh.” And then, of course, after my consulting, he built a whole new audience on YouTube with videos that people watched all over the world and listened to music that he would have never gotten on radio in the past. So, traffic and conversion. The only three ways to get traffic: number one way is earn it with great content, content that people want to see and hear. Bill Lampton: I’ve heard, Mike, that maybe the saying is pretty widespread: “Content is king.” Mike Stewart: That was a kind of a saying right early on in the internet that if your content is not king-worthy, then nobody cares. Content is king, but poor content is not king. Lots of times—and I look at hundreds of websites over the year—they’re all about, “We’re number one.” Especially in the local service businesses, but independent entrepreneurs, small local businesses, consultants, lawyers—it doesn’t matter what your business is. If it’s all about you—”I’m number one, I’m the best, voted best in the county”—people go, “Whoop-dee-doo, can you fix my problem?” And lots of times when websites use stock photos—it should be you. People want to build a relationship of know, like, and trust with you. So I’ve been an advocate for years that when people find you, they have the opportunity to hear you, meet you, see you in a video format. That builds a relationship. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard people say, “I met you on your website.” There’s no way to meet me on my website unless I’m willing to talk to a webcam. It used to be difficult. I went through video cameras to webcams, to iPads. Now an iPhone or an Android or a webcam makes television. In fact, the television quality of the webcams today are broadcast on news channels. When you see a news channel today interview somebody, they’re on the same exact equipment you and I are on right now. Bill Lampton: Yes, I just recently found out that there was a place here in town where I could dispose of video and audio equipment that was not useful any longer. It was amazing to me when I went through my closet, my office, and even downstairs. I took a couple of bags of items out there. At the time, they were it; that was what we had to have. Of course, where we’re very fortunate is that that equipment has become far better, and it’s much more cost-effective, and there are people like you who can train us on how to use it. I’d like to go back to something that you said a couple of minutes ago about visibility and about problem-solving. I know that you’re familiar with the National Speakers Association, and you’re probably familiar with Lois Creamer. Lois has been a consultant for the National Speakers Association for as long as I can remember, and I became a member in 1996. Lois has pretty well echoed what you just said: that our features may be nice, our photos, stock photos, or whatever, but what people really want to know is what problems can you solve. I go back, Mike, to the first time I got a website—and this was before I knew you, I believe. I went to someone who was a veteran speaker and had lunch with him, and I took along my outline of what my website was going to say. He looked at me, and he said, “Well, this is all as good, but it’s all about you. What will people benefit from? What will they get? How will they change? How will they improve? How will they make more money?” And so, the term I keep hearing, and I keep making my own effort to target, is not features, but benefits. That’s what people really want, and you’ve already alluded to that. It’s not, “Yes, you could have all the credentials and initials after your name and everything else, but if you can’t help me, I’m not going to hire you.” And that’s pretty well underscoring what you’re saying, right? Mike Stewart: Absolutely. My whole life, when I created something for sale to make a profit, I always talked about—there’s a gentleman who I spoke on his stages as a speaker, and he is an expert at what’s called direct response marketing. I’ll mention his name, because people, if you don’t know him, you should research him. His name is Dan Kennedy. Bill Lampton: Oh yes, oh yes. Mike Stewart: Dan is all about—there’s agencies, there’s advertising entities that will tell small people, “You need to build your brand.” But Dan says, “You don’t have enough money to be a brand.” What is a brand? A brand is repetition of a marketing message that doesn’t ask for a direct response, but it lets people, when they hear that brand name, associate your business with it. It’s an image. Dan says small businesses, independent entrepreneurs—to become a brand is so expensive in repetition of advertising that you can’t afford it. What you need is enough people to find you and respond to the solutions to their problems. Website designers, digital marketing agencies—they’re probably not going to like this information, and quite honestly, I don’t care if they don’t like it. They build branding websites for people because they think that’s what they need. What they need is to address the problems of their market or their customers and assure them through a lot of different ways that they’re the best solution to the problem. You’ve got to remember, when we started, the internet was just Yahoo and Bing—not Bing, Google didn’t even exist when I started. Bill Lampton: Yes. Mike Stewart: Yahoo was kind of like the equivalent of the Yellow Pages back when I was a kid. You think about it. Let’s take a problem: your toilet is leaking. What did Mom and Dad do? They went and got the Yellow Pages, looked in the P’s under plumbers, and they generally called the first one. I knew people that used to name their business AAA Plumbing. You know why? To be the first plumber in the Yellow Pages. And then they’d get a phone call, and if they called and somebody says, “Hey, we’re so slammed with business, we can’t see you till next week.” “Well, my toilet has a problem right now. I need it fixed right now.” So you’d just go down the list till you finally got somebody who’d come out and fix the problem. And if they did a great job, sometimes they became a customer for life. That was the way you did it back in the old days. Now, people didn’t go to the Yellow Pages and go, “Who is a communication expert?” Because you have to educate your market why they need you. The internet was primitive in the ’90s; it came to fruition through e-commerce. In the ’90s, Jeff Bezos said, “I want to build the world’s largest bookstore.” And he was going to name it Abracadabra.com. Bill Lampton: Was he really? I didn’t know that. Mike Stewart: Yes. A friend of mine said success leaves traces. I love reading about successful people and what they did. He was driving across America with his wife at the time, moving to Seattle, and he wanted to start an online bookstore. He thought the domain name Abracadabra—the book will show up at your house like magic. His lawyer said, “Sounds like cadaver. That’s a terrible name.” This will kind of give an illustration about branding. He turns to his wife and says, “You know what the biggest river in the world is? The Amazon. I want to be the biggest bookstore in the world.” That was his first goal. And he said, “So, I’m going to name it Amazon.” Bill Lampton: Well, you just clued me and our viewers and listeners into something that I’ve been wondering about for quite a while: why was the name chosen Amazon? I thank you for that, and our viewers and listeners thank you for that. You solved the puzzle. Mike Stewart: Okay. So now, if you think about it, when you and I were in school, if I said, “Do you know anything about Amazon?” you would have said, “It’s the world’s biggest river. It’s in South America, in the rainforest.” That’s what Amazon was: the Amazon rainforest. If you ask a Gen Z-er or a millennial, “What’s Amazon?” “Oh, it’s an online store where you can get anything in the world delivered overnight.” He built a brand from repetition. He made an unrelated word be associated with something that it originally wasn’t. I can give you another great example. When I was in school, Liberty was Patrick—you’re an educator, my history’s—the guy who said, “Give me liberty or give me death.” Bill Lampton: Patrick Henry. Mike Stewart: Patrick Henry. That’s what Liberty meant to me. When somebody said, “Do you know anything about Liberty?” Well, if you Google Liberty right now, it’s an insurance company. They have rebranded words through the repetition advertising. You don’t have the resources to do that. You have to get targeted traffic and convert them. Here’s what’s happened that is so exciting today, and one of the things that I’m studying, and it keeps me going: I’m supposed to be retired. Well, let me tell you something: nowhere in the Bible does it say you need to be retired. Retirement to me is if I hate it, I can say no; if I love it, it’s not work. In fact, I talk on baby boomer side hustles these days. What is a baby boomer side hustle? When I was a kid, we used to call it a part-time job. Younger people call it a side hustle. A baby boomer side hustle keeps you in air conditioning, out of the heat and out of the cold, and you don’t have to lift anything heavy, and you don’t have to stand on your feet. Bill Lampton: Sounds pretty good to me. Mike Stewart: You’d be surprised how many baby boomers I have met driving Uber. Why do they drive Uber? I had a guy one time say, “You know, I don’t really need the money, but I just want something to do.” And he says, “Every time the wife wants to take a cruise, I drive for 10 days, make enough money for the cruise, turn it off, and we go on the cruise.” That’s a baby boomer hustle. That’s really anybody’s hustle, if you want to know the truth. Bill Lampton: And let’s face it, Mike, in doing that, they’re solving somebody’s problem. They’re solving the problem of somebody who wants to get somewhere, but maybe doesn’t have a car, or possibly they have a physical limitation and can’t drive anymore. So this gets back to our start of the conversation: that the Uber people are solving problems. Mike Stewart: Right, and they’re generating income from an app. Here’s my problem: I don’t want to park at the airport. I fly playing music all over America. Got a flight this Friday, I’m flying to LA. When my personal Uber driver, my wife Susan, is out of town doing something, I can book Uber to take me to the airport cheaper than I can park at the airport all week. So my problem is I don’t want to park my car at the airport for $25 a day. I’d rather give some entrepreneur the ability to drive me to the airport, drop me off, and he makes 20, 25 bucks. And if I’m gone 5 days, I’m saving money. Bill Lampton: And you also did not have to fight the traffic, and you did not have to try to find a parking place, which at any airport, especially the Atlanta or the Nashville airport or any major city, is tough. Mike, I’m going to ask you about the impact of AI. We do need to know that. We’ll be back right after this message. Voiceover: Do you wish you felt confident about giving speeches? Do you want to deal with difficult people constructively? And what about becoming more persuasive in sales? Then keep listening now to Dr. Bill Lampton. He spent 20 years in management, so he knows the communication skills you need for success. I urge you to call the Biz Communication Guy today for a no-cost but very valuable 30-minute discussion about your communication challenges. Call now: 678-316-4300. Again, that’s 678-316-4300. Bill Lampton: We’re with Mike Stewart on The Biz Communication Show. Mike, a few years back, if somebody had told me about artificial intelligence, I probably would whimsically say that I knew some people who exhibited artificial intelligence. But I can’t say that now. It has become—very much I would go back to when I met you in 1996, and there were certain things if you were going to succeed in business you had to learn. And you, Mike Stewart, had the vision and the talent and the dedication to learn those things, and to help those of us who hadn’t seen the vision and didn’t know how to use it. So let’s talk about artificial intelligence. In what ways can it be beneficial for the business person who wants more business, get the message across more, and increase profits? Mike Stewart: Well, there’s so many aspects of the technology, and I don’t understand the technical side of it, how it works. I do understand that because of the speed of computations, and the fact that it is a protocol of code that can rewrite itself and can learn from user’s input—so they call them modeling languages. A lot of people are concerned about AI taking over the world. Hopefully, they can put preemptive protocols into the software. What AI will do when you learn the art of the prompt: how to talk as a human being to the code to get the results you want. And now there are phenomenal systems in place, and learning the systems that improve your business. The number one AI tool I started using because I’m in an audio world is the ability to transfer a script, a written document, into my voice. That’s done with an AI program called ElevenLabs. The world is using ElevenLabs. In fact, I heard your voiceover guy on your commercial. I could have put that script in ElevenLabs and it spit out my voice saying it in seconds. AI tools are continually combining systems. Right now, there’s a new tool that I’m looking at called GoHighLevel. GoHighLevel has multiple abilities to write content based on your input: the better your prompt, the better your output. It has the ability to build websites based on—it can design logos, it can create video, it can create a virtual attendant that answers the phone and can take orders and answer questions, and it just basically can speed up the whole process. In fact, Nashville, I’m here in a songwriting town, and there’s an AI program called Suno.ai. Most of the AI programs are .ai, not .com. And I’m using Suno to write jingles for businesses. I can sing a melody and lyrics into Suno, and it spits out a master recording. Bill Lampton: Tell us, Mike, those URLs, how do we find these? Mike Stewart: I’ll tell you what, let me go to Google here and let me pull them up on the screen so people have a visual as I talk about them. Bill Lampton: Excellent. Mike Stewart: Here we go. I’m going to put that up on the—I’m sharing my screen, but I don’t know that people are seeing it. There we go. All right, well, there’s the email from Bill saying I’ve got to join StreamYard. Every technology is adding AI. For instance, I don’t know if StreamYard’s doing it yet, but there’s a lot of note-taking AI programs that can listen to your script and turn it into amazing summaries and outlines. The whole thing about AI is it speeds up the process and it automates a lot of things. The number one AI thing that I use is Gemini. Gemini, I can go in and say, “Write a bio on Dr. Bill Lampton of Biz Communication Guy.” And in 15 seconds, it searches everything that exists online, and there you go. I’ve got two different bios to look at. Bill Lampton: It’s amazing. I have—and I imagine some other professionals have done this—I’ve used AI to find out what the description of me online was, and it’s educational. Are they seeing your product, your service like you want it seen? It’s great. And as you’re saying, Mike, how would you like to be an encyclopedia salesman these days? Mike Stewart: AI listens to everything, and hence why writing blogs—AI learns from the information out there. If there’s negative information out there or incorrect information, it’s not smart enough to know the difference between the truth and reality. That’s why I tell my clients blogging and podcasting with your information is going to teach Gemini, Claude—there’s four platforms that are huge: Gemini, Claude, ChatGPT, and Elon Musk’s Grok. At the end of the day, they’re all moving at lightning speed. But anyway, Gemini is my first AI tool that I use on a regular basis. Bill Lampton: That’s spelled G-E-M-I-N-I, right? Mike Stewart: It’s Google’s Gemini. If I take a script like—here’s a script I did for my wife’s blog. It’s great to just—well, here’s another one. This is the prompt that I use: “Write an article based on what somebody should know in the voice of the person, the client, and their location.” And it spits out a script, and it’s amazing how accurate it is, because Gemini is learning what I need and gets better at it. Bill Lampton: Okay, I’m making a note to go to Gemini myself, because I’ve used ChatGPT, Perplexity, and some others, but I haven’t used Gemini. Mike Stewart: Gemini is a Google product. You can actually go to ChatGPT and say, “Compare all the platforms,” and it’ll tell you the benefits and the features of each. ElevenLabs.io is what the world is using to take scripts, and I go into the studio for my clients. Like, this is the ones I did yesterday, and I just upload the Word document. I don’t know if you can hear this, but I sample the client’s voice. This is Kelly McHugh. (Audio sample plays briefly) That’s her voice. We’re producing her podcast purely without her doing anything. So anyway, I use ElevenLabs. The other one I do is Suno. A lot of these accounts will give you three trials so you can understand how it works. Bill Lampton: What’s the spelling on that one, Mike? Mike Stewart: S-U-N-O.com, or .ai. Bill Lampton: Thank you. Mike Stewart: For instance, if I wanted to write a song, I could go in here and I could sing into it, which I’m not going to do right now, but I’m going to say: “Bill Lampton is my friend. Wanna learn communication, learn from him. That’s Bill Lampton, the Communication Guy.” Okay, I’ve spent 10 seconds on lyrics. I’m going to let the AI discover what it thinks is a good idea to make that piece of music. Now, you have the ability to tell it exactly what you want. That’s the power of AI. And I have been helping businesses create jingles for their business. So let’s see. (AI music plays briefly) Now, I didn’t like the prompt, so I’m going to change it prompt-wise. See, you never let AI think on its own; you have to prompt it. So I’m going to create what’s called a redo. And I’m going to keep the lyrics, but I’m going to go in here and I’m going to say style: I don’t want that style. What kind of music do you like, Bill? Bill Lampton: Country. Mike Stewart: Country, rock, husky male vocal. What instruments do you like? Bill Lampton: Piano. Mike Stewart: Piano, fills, and a fiddle, what the heck. Bill Lampton: I know you took piano for 13 years, you told me. Mike Stewart: So AI can create music. Video, it can create amazing content. (AI music plays briefly) Could you hear that? Bill Lampton: No, I didn’t. And I tell you, Mike, I know you told me you got another appointment coming up. Time flies so quickly when I host you on The Biz Communication Show, and I know that there are people who want to get in contact with you. So please give us your contact information. Mike Stewart: Well, since I help you produce your podcast, I’ll edit in those audios so people can hear them, and I’ll send them to you so you can have a laugh. Let me tell you the opportunities that have been a blessing to me, and if you want to know more information, I’ve got a lot of information that you can look at your leisure. I discovered probably in 2010 that the biggest underserved market with what I do, which is helping small businesses get traffic and conversion, was that local service business: like lawyers, like roofers. A service business is something that pretty much their local community is who they serve. A franchise is a local business that’s been replicated in other markets. But there’s a lot of small businesses that aren’t franchises. The local business is just the low-hanging fruit who spends money on the internet and gets poor results for whatever reason. So I started selling local business services to help them improve their presence. Meaning a local internet presence is people in your local market finding you. That business has served me well for many, many years. We did it in the pest control vertical; I still have Gainesville, Georgia customers. Because of the AI tools, what I learned to do manually and at an expense, AI has made it free almost. And I am teaching and helping small businesses at LocalInternetPresence.com. Bill Lampton: In fact, Mike, I have that on the screen now: LocalInternetPresence.com. Mike Stewart: Yes, in fact, if you were to type the words “local internet presence” in Google, I’m the number one website in the world. And why is that? Because nobody knows they need this. I have been doing interviews and sharing this concept, and every bit of it is for free archived at LocalInternetPresence.com. So if you have a curiosity of what I’m doing, I invite you to go there and look at all the free information. And actually, I book a one-hour consult when people really have an interest. So I offer that to your audience if they want to connect with me. I’m very grateful that so many people have really resonated with this, and I’m just looking for that person, whether you’re a baby boomer or you’re—I’ve actually had people who just graduated from college and they want to build their own business. They learned to do something they’re passionate about, and the job market is fickle. Sometimes they come out with an education and they can’t get a job. Well, I’ve never had a job. I’ve always started businesses. You’ll laugh at this: I’ve never written a resume in my life. Bill Lampton: You are an incredible pioneer, no doubt about it. Mike Stewart: I wouldn’t know how to go on a job interview if my life depended on it, but I tell you what, I have been interviewed by customers for years, and my passion is making sure that customer is confident I can solve their problem. Bill Lampton: Mike, I think that’s a great note to wind up on. You work directly with customers, you help people build businesses, you help them take what they have in the way of services or products and you help them have the right language. But even more importantly, you take these ever-changing, somewhat complex internet opportunities we have, and you teach them how to use them and you help them. That’s a great value. As you know, and as people who have heard me interview you before know, I have relied on you so heavily for decades, and I will continue to do it. So Mike, the contact information for you is at LocalInternetPresence.com, correct? Mike Stewart: If you go there, you can get in touch with me, that’s guaranteed. Bill Lampton: Okay, and I’ll mention my website: BizCommunicationGuy.com. And also my YouTube channel, Bill Lampton, Ph.D. There you will find all the previous segments of The Biz Communication Show. If you would like a phone call at no obligation: 678-316-4300. Mike, before we sign off, any closing word from you? Mike Stewart: You know, if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. Bill Lampton: It’s an old saying, and it’s true. Mike Stewart: And one of the things that broke my heart is I see people my age standing on their feet all day at fast food. I’ve got to tell you a funny true story. There was a fellow in Georgia who became a Walmart greeter. Walmart greeters are usually baby boomers who are bored. And so, you know Highway 400 like I do in Atlanta. Sometimes it can be a mess. And the gentleman was late, 15 minutes late for his Walmart greeter job that he didn’t need the money, he just wanted something to do, and he enjoyed talking to people. But he’s on his feet all day, and he was 15 minutes late. So some young manager came up to him and he said, “You’re late.” He says, “I tried to call to let you know that I left in plenty of time, but 400 was a parking lot. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to be, but I did call and nobody answers.” He said, “I’d like to know at your previous job, if you were late, what did your administrator say to you?” “Can I get you another cup of coffee, General?” You never know who that person is, but I can’t stand on my feet all day. My knees are too shot. And most people who are baby boomers and are retired, some of them need extra money, and some of them don’t. They just want to have a reason to get up in the morning. I mean, I look at you. You’re still constantly trying to learn things, and you’re trying to live life. Bill Lampton: It makes life interesting, Mike. It makes it interesting. Mike Stewart: So I encourage young people to learn all you can, respect your elders. One of the comments on a previous podcast I did, they said, “You know what? That old fellow had a lot of gems that I didn’t know.” Guess what? Our whole generation, Bill, has a lot of gems that young people and our peers don’t know. And the right thing to do is share what you know to make it a better world. That’s what I want to leave you with. Bill Lampton: Wonderful way to sign it off. Thank you so much, Mike Stewart, a man of many talents and a man who wants to help us maximize our own talents, expand our knowledge, build our business, and enjoy life more. Mike, it’s such a privilege to have you here. And many thanks to those of you who joined us on video and on the audio portion. We invite you to be with us again next week for another version of The Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy.

Bill Lampton: Hi there. Welcome to The Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy. The Biz Communication Show is in its eighth year of bringing you business communication tips and strategies that will boost your business. Fortunately, I don’t rely only on my comments, and neither will you. As always, I have a stimulating, highly informative, and helpful guest. Today, I know that you will be glad to hear from my guest, Dr. Beverly Smallwood of Hattiesburg, Mississippi. Dr. Smallwood is a licensed psychologist and professional speaker who has been working with organizations for more than 40 years in nine countries around the world. Bev founded her clinical and consulting organization, The Hope Center, in 1984. In her clinic, she has counseled and coached literally thousands of individuals and families in all the struggles of life. Her clients include hospitals and other healthcare organizations, financial institutions, Fortune 500 companies, and several national governments. She often speaks on burnout. Bev’s the author of the book This Wasn’t Supposed to Happen to Me: 10 Make-or-Break Choices When Life Steals Your Dreams and Rocks Your World. Her upcoming book is entitled All the Rage: Detox Angry Relationships, Build Emotional Immunity, and Find Your Missing Peace. Bev has frequently been featured on TV, radio, podcasts, and other online media. So I know that you welcome me in joining Dr. Bev Smallwood. Hello, Bev! Dr. Bev Smallwood: Hello there, Bill! Bill Lampton: It’s delightful to host you, and I will let our viewers and listeners know that you and I grew up in that same small town— Dr. Bev Smallwood: The same small town! Bill Lampton: —Mississippi. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Look what—I mean, we should be their unique claim to fame, I think. Don’t you? (laughs) Bill Lampton: (laughs) Well, we’ll have to ask some of them about that. I don’t—I don’t think we can—I mean, we’re not in politics, so we can’t just announce it. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Right. Bill Lampton: And now, of course, you’re in, as I mentioned, Hattiesburg, Mississippi, where you got your higher education and you’ve had your practice for a long time so effectively. I’d like to begin, Bev, first of all, welcoming you again. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Thank you. Thank you. Bill Lampton: And then secondly, let’s talk about that upcoming book. I gave the title, All the Rage. Dr. Bev Smallwood: All the Rage. And actually, I just recognized that when we sent you that, the subtitle has been changed since then. So let me give the real subtitle. It’s All the Rage: How to Deal with Angry People Without Becoming One Yourself. Bill Lampton: That sounds so vital, and it sounds so timely. I think if any of us spend very much time on the internet at all, it just amplifies, I think, because many people think they have anonymity there, even though their name and picture are there. That’s one place that we find so much anger. And in letters to the editor, I see a lot of anger going on. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Right. Bill Lampton: So what are some of the possible examples of rage that you mention, and then more importantly, how do we address them? What do you suggest that we do to bring a bit of calmness and sanity in the midst of all this? Dr. Bev Smallwood: Yeah. Well, as you said, all you have to do is turn on any kind of media, whether it’s online or the TV or wherever you want to turn it on, and you see that. And the news—I mean, just turn on the news and you’ll see the murders and the violence and all of those things. But even more importantly, Bill, is in our workplaces and in our homes, many of us are living walking on eggshells and not knowing when we’re going to say the wrong thing, or what we can say to whom, and just how to keep our own selves calm so that we’re not controlled by those things that happen to us. Bill Lampton: I think something I’d like to add to that is we’ve mentioned the media, and I would include in that certainly newspapers. I know there’s an old saying, of course, about news: “If it doesn’t bleed, it doesn’t lead.” Dr. Bev Smallwood: Right. Bill Lampton: And I’ve noticed that a great preponderance of news among the newspapers that are left—and of course, we know that’s declining—on many of the newspapers that I see or browse, it has almost become a crime reporting page, and the letters to the editor are very vicious as well. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Right. Bill Lampton: Now, we’ve identified the problem. What do you see as the major causes for this almost universal problem? Dr. Bev Smallwood: You know, I think there’s really been a shift in what we are given permission to say, modeled by people in leadership at a lot of different levels. Things that people would never have said before, now it’s just commonplace to be able to say it. But the thing is that no matter what this culture is saying, as an individual, we have the ability to make choices about how we’re going to respond. And I don’t know about you, but I don’t plan to let someone else’s definition of what’s appropriate change who I am on the inside. I want to live and come forth in this world as a person of purpose and the person that I am. And I think to do that, I have to: Know what my purpose is, as I said, and the impact that I want to have on other people. I do not have to just respond in kind; as a matter of fact, I’m going to choose not to. Recognize I have the ability, the agency, and the choice to come back and respond to what somebody says in a way that de-escalates and in fact solves problems rather than escalating the problem—attacking the problem and not the person. Bill Lampton: I think what this brings to mind to me is an old saying: “It takes two to tango.” And so if we have, for example, a neighbor—or you talked about the workplace—if we have a work colleague who wants to dominate, aggravate, or just take control of the situation, and some who seem to enjoy hostility and conflict… Dr. Bev Smallwood: Mhm. Bill Lampton: You bring to mind to me that we have choices of how we’re going to react to that. And if we get into the boxing ring and we start, then the fight is on. What are ways that you help clients get out of or reduce these situations? Dr. Bev Smallwood: Well, the first thing to do is to be able to de-escalate yourself on the inside and to calm that down. So if you can get any kind of pause—I mean, even if it means excusing yourself to go to the lady’s room or somewhere—just to get some kind of pause to let your own arousal go down. And also, look at the way you are appraising that situation. Because sometimes somebody’s openly aggressive, but sometimes you can be in the habit of taking things a certain way so that pushes your buttons. First of all: Know your own hot buttons, have the ability to breathe, and get a pause before coming back and really addressing the issue. Secondly: As you said, don’t return kind for kind, but instead lower your voice. We learned a long time ago when I was in counseling training that if you had a hostile client and they were yelling, rather than bringing your voice up so that they can hear you (which we tend to do sometimes), keep your voice not just at a normal level, but lower your voice. Bill Lampton: And that can change the atmosphere. Dr. Bev Smallwood: It does change the atmosphere. There’s a proverb that says, “A soft answer turns away wrath,” and there’s really some truth in that. You know, Bill, I’ve got a little bit of a croaky voice today, and I’ve noticed this: that if you have true laryngitis and you’re going around just whispering all day, by the end of the day, people are whispering to you! (laughs) Have you noticed that? We just have a tendency to match what the other person is doing. So if you can soften your voice, then that changes the atmosphere and invites the other person to calm it down. Bill Lampton: I’d like to respond to your points there. One is walk away from the situation if you can. Sometimes in a heated argument, let’s say among a manager and a subordinate, it works well—and I was in administration a long time—to suggest, “Why don’t we talk about this tomorrow? Let’s think it over a little bit and let’s talk about it tomorrow.” Dr. Bev Smallwood: Yes. Bill Lampton: And then I would also want to comment on your bit about how we respond verbally. It could very well be that we have misinterpreted their mood. Possibly they’re not intending to come across angry. And so sometimes we can—and as a psychologist, I know you suggest this—we can say something to the effect of, “What are you implying?” or “What do you mean by that?” or— Dr. Bev Smallwood: “Help me understand” is a soft way to say it. “Help me understand that better.” Bill Lampton: Yes! Right, right. And so there are a couple of things that we’ve observed so far here: Don’t get combative yourself. See if you can put a little time space between the discussion. Find out if your interpretation of the situation is correct just by probing as to what the feelings are. Would that be the approach as a psychologist that you take? Dr. Bev Smallwood: Yes, all good things. And I would add something to that point about giving it a little bit of space. Whether it’s about a conflict that you have with somebody, or whether it’s a manager who’s going to talk with an employee about a performance issue, I advise people to actually make an appointment to discuss it. Here’s how you do that. You would say: “Bill, I’d like to talk with you about what happened with us yesterday in the meeting because I’ve been kind of thinking about it, and I want us to get our heads together and be sure that we don’t get crosswise like that again. When might be a good time for you to talk about that? Maybe sometime tomorrow or the next day?” What I’ve done is: I have named the issue. I have modeled to the person that this is going to be a collaborative discussion. I’m showing by my manner what my intent is. I’ve used terms like “let’s get our heads together,” which is a collaborative statement. I’m allowing that person time to think about it. I’ve already had time to think about it, so by naming the issue, I allow them that same time, which reduces defensiveness. If they feel blindsided and caught off guard, they’re going to be a lot more defensive and less of a listener. I gave that person some choice. Anytime we give people choice, they feel less defensive in the process. “When might be a good time? Where would you like to get together—my office or yours?” Giving choice ensures they are not blindsided, making it a lot more likely that it’s going to be a great discussion. Bill Lampton: Bev, this is absolutely a good formula for healing relationships which could get way off track if we heal them quite early. We can reduce a lot of that rage that your upcoming book talks about. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Right. Keep your accounts up to date. Don’t let it pile up. Do it promptly, and then it’s not a big deal. Bill Lampton: Yes, and I would guess that you might tell couples that same advice. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Oh, yeah! When I’m working with couples in the office, I have a step-by-step process that I go through, and I’ve detailed that in the book for people to be able to follow. Bill Lampton: Bev, I want to get to another topic, and that is the comparison trap that you and I have thought about before and talked about. We’ll do that in just a couple of seconds, right after this. [Commercial Break] Announcer: Do you wish you felt confident about giving speeches? Do you want to deal with difficult people constructively? And what about becoming more persuasive in sales? Then keep listening now to Dr. Bill Lampton. He spent 20 years in management, so he knows the communication skills you need for success. I urge you to call the Biz Communication Guy today for a no-cost, but very valuable 30-minute discussion about your communication challenges. Call now: 678-316-4300. Again, that’s 678-316-4300. Bill Lampton: We’re here today with Dr. Bev Smallwood: psychologist, author, speaker. And Bev, I remember looking at some of your YouTube material and also your website, and you talked about falling into the comparison trap. Explain to us what that is and what might be the effects that the comparison trap has on us. Dr. Bev Smallwood: That’s one of the traps that can erode self-worth, and self-worth is at the foundation of so many of our reactions. We have to be confident, or else we’re defensive, and so it definitely affects anger. Let’s talk about some of the false equations for self-worth: “My self-worth is because of my performance.” (There are traps in that.) “My self-worth is based on what others think of me.” “My self-worth is based on what I think others think of me.” One of the ways that we judge that is by comparing ourselves to other people. And not just comparing some characteristic, but making a judgment about our worth based on how we compare. Bill, there’s always going to be somebody that has a little more, that is a little more accomplished, has a little bigger house, a nicer car, and whatever. If we use that as our standard for self-worth, we’re constantly going to come up short. Bill Lampton: Yes, there’s so many measurements that we could say, “Gosh, this person has a more expensive house, this one is higher paid,” and so on. It seems to me that this was something you first noticed long before you became a psychologist—in your teenage years. Tell us about that. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Well, yeah! I noticed it in myself. I think I might have weighed maybe 117 or something as a teenager, but I was around all these girls that weighed 100! (laughter) Now I would kill to weigh 117! Just that comparison of: How do I look as compared to that person? Do the boys like her more than they do me? And so on. We can bring that right on into adulthood. We laugh at some of the things we thought of as a teenager, but my goodness—you go to a conference and you see someone who is just knocking it out of the park and you go, “Why? What’s wrong with me that I’m not doing that?” It is guaranteed to cause you to have some chronic insecurities, because there will always be someone. We have our own lane. My comparison should not be to you, Bill, or to anybody else. My comparison should be: Am I in my lane? Am I doing those things that I’m designed to do? Am I a little bit further along than I was? My comparison is to my own performance and my own journey. Am I taking one more step, one more step? Bill Lampton: I’d like to echo back to my own teen years when, as you know, you and I both went to Columbia High School in Columbia, Mississippi. We know that, as is the case in most small towns, Friday night is king, and the football players are the stars. Growing up, that’s one thing you aspire to do as a boy. In seventh grade, I went out for what was called peewee football. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Peewee, okay. Bill Lampton: Yes, and I played right tackle. I can remember so well, Bev, the day that I got on the scales and I weighed 100 pounds! (laughter) Dr. Bev Smallwood: You were trying to weigh 100 pounds; I was trying in the other direction! (laughs) Bill Lampton: That’s right! Let’s figure out how that went. They didn’t eliminate anybody from the team, but as I recall, during all the bus trips we took to neighboring towns to play, I think I played three plays that season. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Three plays. Bill Lampton: That could have shaped me far later in life, but fortunately, I came to understand that was not the case. I became a college and high school member of the golf team, and there were a lot of those football players that didn’t do that. So as you say, we have our own lane. Dr. Bev Smallwood: In your own lane. Bill Lampton: And getting to that, I liked an answer you gave about what happens to runners who start looking at the other lane. Tell us about that. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Well, you know what’s going to happen. If you’re looking to the side instead of straight ahead where your next step is going, you’re going to stumble and fall. It’s just the way it’s going to happen. That same thing happens in life. If we’re busy looking this way or looking back, then we do not have our eyes on the next thing that really is possible for us and the next step that we’re supposed to take. Sometimes we get confused about, “Maybe I don’t even know what my next step is.” Can I tell you a quick story, Bill? Bill Lampton: Sure! Dr. Bev Smallwood: When my daughter was just four, we lived across the street from a little lady named Miss Franks. Miss Franks did a lot of arts and crafts and things like that, and we would go over and Miss Franks would teach Amy about how to do different things. One day, we had been over there pretty long and we started back down the long, winding driveway of where she lived. It was dark—we stayed a little longer than we thought—it was very dark. Amy had my hand and she said, “Mommy, Mommy, what are we going to do? We can’t see!” And then she said, “Wait, wait. We can’t see out there, but if we look right in front of us, we can see how to take the next step.” Bill Lampton: Wow, that’s an illustration you’ve used many times, I would imagine, in dealing with clients. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Absolutely, absolutely. You don’t have to have the whole path. You certainly don’t need to be looking this way or that way. But when you look down at your feet and then you take that next step, guess what? There’s light for another. Bill Lampton: One very quick final question as time seems to speed by: you talk about “measure forward.” Explain that, please. Dr. Bev Smallwood: I’m sorry, talk about what? Bill Lampton: “Measure forward.” Dr. Bev Smallwood: Oh, measure forward. I’m not remembering that part. Give me a clue! Bill Lampton: (laughs) Well, I don’t have a clue! I thought I had read where you said that instead of measuring looking at everybody else, measure forward. Dr. Bev Smallwood: (laughs) How about a different last question? Oh, moving forward! Yeah, that’s kind of what I was talking about in terms of looking at your own lane. I forgot that I called it that in the YouTube. It’s looking forward and measuring what your step is. And then, when you get discouraged and you think, “Man, I’m not getting anywhere with this,” take a snapshot of where you are right now and where you were at some point in the past, and ask yourself: “Am I still there?” No. I’m further along than I was. Maybe I’m not where I expected I would be by now, but I am moving forward. So measure forward. Bill Lampton: I like that. And I like the wonderful tips and strategies that you have brought us today, which is what The Biz Communication Show is all about. Could you sort of pull together in a minute or so what you would like to leave with our viewers and listeners on the topics that we’ve talked about? Dr. Bev Smallwood: Sure. I think really one of the central things is: don’t tell yourself you have no control, because we always have choices. Others are making choices about their own lives and their own responses, and you may feel paralyzed, you may feel like you’ve lost some of what you had. This is what I think about a lot, and it’s my definition of responsibility: Do all you can (not what somebody else ought to do), With all you have (not what you used to have, but what you have now), Where you are, right now (not where you thought you were going to be, and not where you’ll be in the future, but where you are right now). Get moving with action, and there’ll be light for another step. Bill Lampton: Those are marvelous guidelines to wind up the conversation. I know, Bev, that there are those who have watched this interview—this conversation, I like to call it—and who have heard it on podcast and would like to contact you. Would you please give us your contact information? Dr. Bev Smallwood: Yeah, I’ll just give my email, which is bev@drbevsmallwood.com—it’s “dr” no period—or the website, drbevsmallwood.com. Bill Lampton: Thank you so much. And mention once more for us the title of the upcoming book, please, so we’ll be on the lookout for that. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Yes, that’s coming in October: All the Rage: How to Deal with Angry People Without Becoming One Yourself. Bill Lampton: As we said at the outset, a much-needed topic. And now, Bev, that you’ve very kindly given your contact information, I want to give mine: YouTube Channel: Bill Lampton, Ph.D. As I said, this show has been posted for eight years, so there are many interviews on there with prominent people who are great resources. I encourage you to subscribe to my YouTube channel. Website: bizcommunicationguy.com. I would love to hear by phone—with no initial commitment financially—from those of you who want to know more about communication training and growth. Phone: 678-316-4300. I want to mention as well the co-producer of this show. His name is Mike Stewart. Mike is based in Nashville, and Mike has been my guru for a long time. I have relied on him since 1996, and he became a real pioneer in marketing and internet development when all those things were coming along, and he’s continued to be a great resource for me. His website is localinternetpresence.com. Dr. Bev Smallwood, again, such a pleasure to have you on the program. We’re very grateful. Dr. Bev Smallwood: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it, and love being with you—always do, Bill. Bill Lampton: Yes, good to talk to a hometown person that I haven’t talked to in a long time. So appreciate it very much. I invite those of you who have watched our interview to be with us again on the next version of The Biz Communication Show.

Bill Lampton: Hi there. Welcome to the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication guy, bringing you tips and strategies on communication that will boost your business. Now in our eighth year of producing this video, audio podcast. And as you know, I do not just share my on— my own wisdom about business communication, but I bring on an expert and our conversation will enlighten you and me both with tips and strategies that will help us boost our business. Today it’s a wonderful privilege to welcome a long-time friend, colleague, associate, mentor, Terry Brock, coming to us from Orlando, Florida. Terry Brock is a communicator and I can underscore that. Since he was a kid, in fact in second grade, he has been writing. He worked as a journalist for many years and his undergraduate degree is in communications working with radio, TV, and newspaper. Today Terry and his partner and fiancé, Gina Carr— and Gina was a recent guest on the Biz Communication Show— Terry and his fiancé, Gina Carr, have a membership program called Stark Raving Entrepreneurs where they help people build their business, leveraging the daylights out of AI and other tech. Today he joins us again to talk about what is happening and how you can move your business to the next level. So, I know you’ll join me in welcoming Terry Brock. Hello, Terry. Terry Brock: Great to be with you, Bill. Thank you for having me on board. Bill Lampton: Well, your— your introduction, which you kindly provided, did not even begin to describe your uh immense qualifications, which I’m very familiar with. Not long ago, Terry, you and I were having a visit, as a matter of fact, you and Gina came to see me here in my home in Gainesville, Georgia, and I remember asking you how many countries you had spoken in, directed seminars in, or done training in. What is that latest number? I know you’re a global presenter, what is that latest number? Terry Brock: Well, the latest as of now is uh 44 countries and counting. So, they would include um places like England and Canada and France and Dubai, and even Texas. And so, you know, a lot of different places there. Bill Lampton: Well, truly, you— you— some people call themselves a global speaker because they made one presentation outside the country, but you definitely are a global speaker. And in recognition of the great impact you’ve had globally, you have received the highest honors available from the National Speakers Association. And I still remember in 1998, I believe it was, you and I met at a National Speakers Convention, and then I had other encounters with you when you lived in Georgia and we were both members of the Georgia Chapter of the National Speakers Association. This was before you set your business and your residence in Orlando, Florida. One of the great traits that you have, and there are many as a presenter, is that you involve your audience. It’s not just [laughter] it’s not just what I would call a— a mannequin with a mouth. [laughter] Just somebody who spews out a message and hope people are getting it. And also, you’re not a novice who, when you want to get your audience involved, you say, “Hey, anybody got any questions?” and there’s this [laughter] there’s this frightening deadly silence. Share with us, please— many of us are presenters, whether we’re professional or whether we’re business and professional people— share with us some of the strategies and techniques that you use, Terry, to get your audience vocally and physically involved in the presentation. Terry Brock: Well, that’s a good question because I think that’s important when you’re connecting with people. You want to find out what it is that’s on their mind. One of the things I found a change that I’ve done recently that helps, maybe this will help some of the viewers and listeners here, often I would ask for, “What would you like to hear about? What topic do you want to hear?” And that’s good, not bad, they might say, “Well this or that.” We work do a lot with AI. So, they’d want to know about using Chat GPT for this or maybe using Gemini for this or how does this tool work, etc. Those are good, but even better is when you can do your research and then lean forward and ask people, “Where are you having problems right now? What are some of the big frustrations you’re having with technology? What’s the biggest problem you bump into with Chat GPT or what are your biggest concerns or worries about it?” Something like that, those kind of questions that are tailored for the market, whatever it is that you’re serving, does a lot better. I think in terms of what a surgeon, a physician would do, when you go into this physician’s office, the physician often doesn’t say, “Well, would you like to know more about this medicine or would you like to know about this medicine?” No, they say, “How you doing? Any pain, any hurt, anything I can do to help you out?” A really good physician will do that and so, I’ve been thinking that’s a probably a good way to do it, and I think then you respond back to the people based on where they’re hurting. And by the way, as you know this very well, Bill, today, we’re in a great shape as better than ever before. That sounds like hyperbole, but it’s true because now we can do the research and find out where are they hurting. Where are they bumping into problems? With tools like Perplexity, it does great work with research. So does Chat GPT now and Gemini and particularly Grok. Grok is giving you real-time information of what’s going on right now, particularly relevant in some areas when there’s say a crisis or an emergency going on. So, I think what we want to do is be aware of what’s possible and then always be oriented toward how do we solve their problems. Nice to talk about a topic and we’ll mention that, okay fine if it’s relevant to them, but more importantly, find out where they’re hurting, where they’re bumping into real-world pain and how we can grab a tool over here that’ll help that or a tool over here that’ll solve that problem. Bill Lampton: Audience analysis is absolutely a vital key because the presenter, whether you’re an executive or whether you’re a professional speaker, the presenter, if— if it’s a solo act, audiences today are— are not um they’re not going to stick with you, and so you need— and I see perpetually, you and I both know Lois Creamer who advises us so often about what is happening in the speaking business. And one of the points that she makes repeatedly is that we must be problem solvers. We must not just be topic experts, but we must be problem solvers. And carrying this just a little bit farther, Terry, you’ve done your audience analysis and you get up to present, and knowing you, you do not talk for 60 minutes or whatever is allowed without really getting the audience involved. And as— and as I said a few minutes ago, the old way is saying, “Hey, anybody got any questions?” [laughter] and of course, usually no one will be the first one, and there— there are none. So, how do you get true involvement, feedback, maybe a Q&A? How do you get the audience stimulated to do that, guided to do that? Terry Brock: I don’t think there’s any one particular way to do it, but there’s some things we can do today that help a lot. Like for instance, I recently spoke uh out in Texas uh to a group of people that are in landscape and in nurseries, that working with those and earning with, out of the green industry, growing just wonderful, wonderful people. And I wanted to study their industry and find out what are they going through. So, I used my buddies, as I like to say, my buddies Chat GPT, Perplexity, Grok, and some other tools out there to find out what is going on, what is bothering people in those industries out there in Texas right now. And so, I knew some of the issues that were going on, and I had some fun with it, Bill. You’ll appreciate this. What I did is I looked at what was going on, and one of the issues they’re having concern with right now is with labor— getting people to come and work for them, what the prices are going to be for labor, etc., etc., and the shortage. And so, what I did is I say, “I understand that in your industry right now, here in Texas, you’re going through uh labor issues trying to find out,” and they’re kind of shaking their head going, “Yeah, he knows what he talking about.” I say, “Let me show you a way we can figure that out,” and what I did is I reached over, grabbed my phone, went over to Chat GPT, popped it into voice mode and I said, “Chat GPT, need you to act as an expert here in Texas in the area of nursery and with grooming and growing shrubs and things like that. What is going on right now that is causing problems in labor? What are— do you see happening in that?” And it came back and gave me an extensive conversation there about what’s happening, the issues, etc. I cut it off saying, “Okay, okay, that’s real good. Hang on just a minute.” And I paused, I looked at them, I say, “Is what Chat GPT told us accurate?” And they said, “Yeah, yeah, that’s true, but uh we all know that.” I said, “Yeah, that’s right. And you want to know what he can do to tell you to get around that and work around it.” They go, “Yeah.” I say, “Okay, we just confirmed though that he knows what he’s talking about. He,” because I was using the male voice at that time, “he was there, uh give me the information to that what was said. Is that correct, correct?” And they’re all going, “Yeah.” I go, “Now, the other issue is what?” And they told me some of the issues. I said, “That’s right.” And then I said, “I repeated that back into Chat GPT, and it came up with some solutions for them, some of which they had heard, some they had not. They’re writing it down, they go, ‘Oh, this is great.’ And I said, ‘This is what’s happening right now in the industry and this is how you can do it.’ If we had more time right now, we could go further in-depth on it, but here’s how you can do it on your own.” And I gave them the instructions on what to do with Chat GPT or other LLMs. So, Bill, cycling back around to what you’re asking about, find those areas where they’re hurting, where they, your audience, has pain, and then customize it. And today, we can leverage the daylights out of these tools to help us find out what’s really going on underneath the surface because people will go— go out on Reddit, and they’ll type, “Boy, I’m really mad with this company because they did this and this and this.” And then you start watching that, does that replicate in other areas? “Oh, okay. Now we know something that’s good here.” This company has been doing this in a couple areas, people don’t like that. Guess what we need to tell that company? “Hey, yeah, listen to what people are talking about.” So, it’s like you’re getting a sneaky way to do it, but using it right here with our phones, our LLMs like Grok, Chat GPT, Gemini, and some others, Claude also a very good one. Bill Lampton: Audience analysis is absolutely a vital key because the presenter, whether you’re an executive or whether you’re a professional speaker, the presenter, if— if it’s a solo act, audiences today are— are not um they’re not going to stick with you. And so, you need— and I see perpetually, you and I both know Lois Creamer who advises us so often about what is happening in the speaking business. And one of the points that she makes repeatedly is that we must be problem solvers. We must not just be topic experts, but we must be problem solvers. And carrying this just a little bit farther, Terry, you’ve done your audience analysis and you get up to present, and knowing you, you do not talk for 60 minutes or whatever is allowed without really getting the audience involved. And as— and as I said a few minutes ago, the old way is saying, “Hey, anybody got any questions?” [laughter] And of course, usually no one will be the first one and there— there are none. So, how do you get true involvement, feedback, maybe a Q&A? How do you get the audience stimulated to do that, guided to do that? Terry Brock: I don’t think there’s any one particular way to do it, but there’s some things we can do today that help a lot. Like for instance, I recently spoke uh out in Texas uh to a group of people that are in landscape and in nurseries, that working with those and earning with, out of the green industry, growing just wonderful, wonderful people. And I wanted to study their industry and find out what are they going through. So, I used my buddies, as I like to say, my buddies Chat GPT, Perplexity, Grok, and some other tools out there to find out what is going on, what is bothering people in those industries out there in Texas right now. And so, I knew some of the issues that were going on, and I had some fun with it, Bill. You’ll appreciate this. What I did is I looked at what was going on, and one of the issues they’re having concern with right now is with labor— getting people to come and work for them, what the prices are going to be for labor, etc., etc., and the shortage. And so, what I did is I say, “I understand that in your industry right now, here in Texas, you’re going through uh labor issues trying to find out,” and they’re kind of shaking their head going, “Yeah, he knows what he talking about.” I say, “Let me show you a way we can figure that out,” and what I did is I reached over, grabbed my phone, went over to Chat GPT, popped it into voice mode and I said, “Chat GPT, need you to act as an expert here in Texas in the area of nursery and with grooming and growing shrubs and things like that. What is going on right now that is causing problems in labor? What are— do you see happening in that?” And it came back and gave me an extensive conversation there about what’s happening, the issues, etc. I cut it off saying, “Okay, okay, that’s real good. Hang on just a minute.” And I paused, I looked at them, I say, “Is what Chat GPT told us accurate?” And they said, “Yeah, yeah, that’s true, but uh we all know that.” I said, “Yeah, that’s right. And you want to know what he can do to tell you to get around that and work around it.” They go, “Yeah.” I say, “Okay, we just confirmed though that he knows what he’s talking about. He,” because I was using the male voice at that time, “he was there, uh give me the information to that what was said. Is that correct, correct?” And they’re all going, “Yeah.” I go, “Now, the other issue is what?” And they told me some of the issues. I said, “That’s right.” And then I said, “I repeated that back into Chat GPT, and it came up with some solutions for them, some of which they had heard, some they had not. They’re writing it down, they go, ‘Oh, this is great.’ And I said, ‘This is what’s happening right now in the industry and this is how you can do it.’ If we had more time right now, we could go further in-depth on it, but here’s how you can do it on your own.” And I gave them the instructions on what to do with Chat GPT or other LLMs. So, Bill, cycling back around to what you’re asking about, find those areas where they’re hurting, where they, your audience, has pain, and then customize it. And today, we can leverage the daylights out of these tools to help us find out what’s really going on underneath the surface because people will go— go out on Reddit, and they’ll type, “Boy, I’m really mad with this company because they did this and this and this.” And then you start watching that, does that replicate in other areas? “Oh, okay. Now we know something that’s good here.” This company has been doing this in a couple areas, people don’t like that. Guess what we need to tell that company? “Hey, yeah, listen to what people are talking about.” So, it’s like you’re getting a sneaky way to do it, but using it right here with our phones, our LLMs like Grok, Chat GPT, Gemini, and some others, Claude also a very good one. Bill Lampton: I remember, uh Terry, that [laughter] I was not the most technical guy ever to go into this business, and I would imagine that you remember a publicist, Raleigh Pinsky. Raleigh wrote a book on how to become highly influential, how to publicize yourself. And I go back to a time, and I’ve told this on the Biz Communication Show before, but it’s highly relevant. I go back to a time when I was just starting out and Raleigh Pinsky’s and I got on a phone conversation. She was in Arizona, I was in Georgia, and I said, “What do you think I need to learn to get started?” And she mentioned a couple of things and I said, “Oh, oh, no. That’s— that’s just way too complicated for me.” And she said, “Bill, we’re not hanging up this phone until you get this right.” And I finally did, Terry, and guess what? It was how to copy and paste on the computer. [laughter] Terry Brock: I’m thinking you still use that little ditty now every— every so often. [laughter] Bill Lampton: So, we’ve come a long way. And what amazes me so much about artificial intelligence and the particular tools that you mentioned is that when you ask a question, which is the way to really find the information, the second that you stop typing the question, AI begins giving you the answer. [laughter] And— and and um I wouldn’t— I wouldn’t try to sell an— an Encyclopedia Britannica today, Terry. [laughter] You know, we get our answers uh much more instantly, much more specifically, and there’s nothing at all outdated about them. One of the points that we observed at the start is how you’ve spoken in so many countries, how you have been awarded the highest award of the National Speakers Association. And Terry, there are people who are listening, I’m sure, who are curious about the speaking profession today. And there are some who have had some speaking experience and they’re thinking about becoming a professional speaker. So, right after this message, we want your advice on how we would go about doing that. Be back in a couple of seconds. [Commercial Break] Bill Lampton: We’re here on the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication guy, welcoming the opportunity to speak with Terry Brock, one of my long-time friends, associates, mentors, and certainly a role model. Terry, just before that short break, I mentioned that there are people who are wondering, how do you get started today? Not 20 years ago or 30 years ago, when you and I started. How do you get started today to become a professional, full-time professional speaker? Terry Brock: Well, there’s no one way to do it because it varies from a lot of people, but a way that I have seen and we’re seeing with many, many professional speakers is you want to be knowledgeable and an expert in a particular area, so that you can solve problems. As you were saying before and our friend Lois Creamer talks about that extensively. So, you want to be able to solve problems and do it in a way by presenting. But people need to know about you. Right now, competition is white-hot. There’s so many people that are speaking, that are giving information, and doing a very good job of it, too. So, you’ve got to stand out in a real good way that solves their problems. A good way that I have found works for me, works for you, Bill, and is working for many other people as well, is make sure you have a very good professional appearance on YouTube, regularly. Regular communication that you send out, being able to stay in touch with people solving their problems. If people want answers, they often go today to YouTube. YouTube has exceeded the viewers on the traditional networks, long ago. No longer are we tied to ways that it was years ago when we’d have the three networks, or then the cable stations. Today, we’re doing it on the net and YouTube is there because it can get fine-tuned. I’m amazed, and Gina and I sit and watch YouTube and are amazed at the kind of specificity and degree of influence that is out there for many different people in given fields. We have certain people that we follow in AI, certain people that we follow with um improving our lives, certain people— I like following uh the Stoic philosophy, and seeing what they’re doing. I’m a big fan of Miyamoto Musashi, the Japanese samurai warrior long ago, and people like that. I like to see those and they have a lot of channels for that. This is the beauty of it. So, I would say to get started, think about the problem you can solve first, not just what you can do or what you think is a nifty groovy idea. “Well, that’s real good, Sparky, but uh [laughter] it doesn’t really matter what you think, what matters is what they think.” So, this is where the LLMs, those large language models, AI tools can show us people are looking for help in this area, and they’re not getting enough of it. And by the way, that’s an area that you know about that’s really good or you could learn it because it’s very close. It’d be like if a medical doctor needed to learn about a given disease but she hadn’t studied that yet, she hadn’t studied as much about that, but she could easily come up to speed on it, studying on her own, studying at the University of YouTube, we call it that euphemistically, [laughter] going out there, taking in some college courses, some extra medical courses to learn that disease if a lot of people are there and it ties in with her background. That’s the way to do it today. You find out those areas where people are hurting, where they have a need, you find the— well like they told us in business school, you find a problem and you solve it. You want to find out what’s going on, and today we’ve got the research to be able to do that as never before. I was just doing some research uh before our call today on some areas that are going on and what you can trust online and what you can’t trust. And it was really revealing for me. I’m going to be sharing that later today at our Stark Raving Entrepreneurs meeting. It happens to be today we’re going to be talking about things, and showing this tool that has shown what was going on, and we knew that it was going on then, but there were other tools that were saying something different. And then they were even saying what is happening now, that’s not true, that’s misinformation, that was a term they were using, or disinformation. And yet, it really was happening and now we can look back and go, “Okay, this is good to know for the future.” That way when you know what is right, and you know what is accurate and a reliable source, and you know how to use that tool, now you got a real edge and that gives you the ability to get out and speak as a speaker. And another thing, Bill, if I could mention, right now, again I agree with you, the market has changed. It’s no longer the way it used to be in the field of professional speaking. Yes, there’s still is a place for a person standing on a stage with a microphone, real people there, talking to them. There is a place for that. We like that, we like that human connection. But also, there’s other ways we communicate— that we communicate as you and I are doing right now with video. We’re communicating with one person to many so you can do that. Our Stark Raving Entrepreneurs, we do that where we have people around the world that join us and we get a chance to solve problems and have feedback as if we were in the same room. Find out how you can do that, how you can communicate in other ways. We’re also doing a lot with writing, now more than ever, and it’s easier than ever because we can get the LLMs to help us write— not writing it for us, but as an assistant giving us the raw material that we then take and craft along with what we want. Audio is still very strong with podcasts. You can do audio-only or you can do audio and video that would be on say YouTube, where you might have an interview. This is a great way for you to solve problems. Often people talk about what we are as a professional speaker and I say that we all need to aim for being a CSP. Now, CSP has a meaning within the National Speakers Association of a Certified Speaking Professional. That’s a good thing to have for professional speakers. I encourage them to look into it. I have one myself, but I don’t mean that in this case. Here I mean CSP is a communicator who solves problems. That’s what we need to go for. Find out what the problems are, how you can solve it, and then have the skills in communication to use that, and you can learn a lot about that from the Biz Communication guy, Bill Lampton. Those of you watching this, I’m going to embarrass Bill a little bit here but uh he is incredibly good. He also has his doctorate, a real doctorate in communication. He has helped many people with this, and he can help you with these kind of areas and more. So, get in touch with this young man. He’s got some real wisdom. Bill Lampton: Thank you for that very kind endorsement, Terry. I am— I am a— a true devotee of YouTube. To me, this is a visual encyclopedia that— that is— it’s in your and my price range. [laughter] We get so much free advice there on practically any topic from a great range of experts. And I remember you and I were having a conversation, as we do often sharing ideas, about a year and a half ago. I mentioned to you that I had started doing YouTube Shorts, which is 60 seconds or less. And you said, “Bill, that’s a good idea.” Well, Terry, I now produce, while I continue to host interviews such as this, I now produce three 60-second-or-less YouTube Shorts a week because you and I know and all of our viewers and listeners know that our attention span is not what it was even 20 years ago. There was a time when people would listen to very long monologues or even very long dialogue, but we want it quickly now and so, I— I have found value in YouTube Shorts and I assume you’re producing those as well. Terry Brock: Oh yeah, I find them really helpful because people want information quickly and you can get a lot of views that way. People get a chance to know you and then it can lead to your long-form videos which would be there and what they do. Actually, the way YouTube does it now, it was 60 seconds and now they say it can be three minutes or less, which is okay, but Bill, you’re right on target once again. 60 seconds and less gets more views because people think three minutes, boy, that’s a long time. Huh? [laughter] But they’re thinking of it that way. So, we’ve got to adapt and change to the market. And that’s the important whenever we’re alive, we’ve got to say not— let me— don’t let me tell you about what’s happened in the past, I mean, that’s— we— that’s nice, but when you think about it, Bill, when you and I were younger, when I say think of uh like 1940s, ’50s, ’60s, ’70s around in there, there were things that people were looking at that were in the past at that time. Well, what we’ve got to always do throughout history is say, what are people looking for now? Right now, right now. Now, we can bring in what we had in the past, you and I talking about uh Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus, Seneca, and people like that, the Stoics like that, that’s good. Their wisdom is still good today and that’s what we can bring in versus some of the styles and customs that might have been valid in the 1820s or the 1840s or the 1900s. Whatever it is, that’s okay. What we’ve got to do is focus on what people want right now. Bill Lampton: Terry, we have time for one more question. I invite you to tell us about something I mentioned in the introduction, Stark Raving Entrepreneurs, which is your weekly grand training opportunity. Tell us the format, what happens, and also, how do we get access to that? Terry Brock: Well, thank you for asking. It’s a program that’s designed to help entrepreneurs who uh want to get out there and do things on their own, serving a market by using technology particularly. Using video was one thing we did, we were actually called Video Rockstars before we became Stark Raving Entrepreneurs. But now what we do is we show people every week, like today we’re going to do that, how to use certain tools and how to make that work to translate into business. How to use AI, how to use Grok, how to use Chat GPT, how to use these. Matter of fact, today, I’m going to be talking about Grok in key areas where you can use that tool to generate business, to do research, to create magnificent videos more than you can in other places, and the audio as well. These kind of things that are available. So, Stark Raving Entrepreneurs, we give people an opportunity to build their business the way they want and we build it on a rock-solid foun— philosophy that we both, Gina and I, embrace and that is, live and let live. Do whatever you want in life. Bill Lampton: How do we— how do we access uh that? Is it a membership deal or is it just come in and— and watch or what— what’s the deal on that, Terry? Terry Brock: Yeah, it’s a membership and we offer the opportunity for people to get involved. Come over to starkravingentrepreneurs.com. If you go to starkravingentrepreneurs.com, you’ll find the information there, all of it’s there. And uh let us know and if you got a specific question, drop me a note. I’m terry@terrybrock.com and be happy to help you and work with you on that because you need to ex— do the things you want to do in life. As long as you’re not harming someone else, get out there and have fun, learn it and build your business. It’s really the best way to secure your future and those of your loved ones is to have your own business where you’re not dependent on anyone else, but you can do it on your own and make the world a better place. Bill Lampton: I certainly endorse Stark Raving Entrepreneurs and I encourage every viewer and listener to check into that. Terry, as always, I’ve had the privilege of interviewing you periodically on the Biz Communication Show and always, you’re not contemporary, you’re way ahead of contemporary. [laughter] You’re a— you’re a pace setter and anytime important change comes along that we need to be aware of, you’ve— you’ve got on the leader’s cap. You learn it and then, very fortunately for the rest of us, you translate it into our lingo and you help us learn these vast new accessories, or I’ll call them really necessities, that we need for success. Certainly, we have viewers and listeners who want your contact information, so will you share that with us, please? Terry Brock: Yes, and you can reach me at terry@terrybrock.com. And those of you that might be joining with audio, Terry and Brock can be spelled different ways, so Terry is T-E-R-R-Y and Brock is spelled the right way, B-R-O-C-K. So, terry@terrybrock.com, and I answer all of those requests that I can get to, which is usually 100%, so I’ll look forward to hearing from you on that. Bill Lampton: Thank you, Terry. And I— I believe that Terry Brock, if I were to look back over three decades, if I were to look at the top three coaches, mentors, colleagues who have taught me and who have encouraged me and who have supported me, Terry Brock would be in that top three, there’s no question about it. Terry Brock: Thank you, Bill. Bill Lampton: And now I’d like to give my contact information. My YouTube channel is Bill Lampton, PhD. On there, you— in fact, I go back, Terry, to 2007 when I started recording instructional videos about communication. And many of those are solo presentations, but in the last eight years, the Biz Communication Show has been hosting experts. So, I hope and encourage you to, when you go to my YouTube channel, Bill Lampton, PhD, to subscribe there. Then, my website, since my tagline is Biz Communication guy, logically, my website is bizcommunicationguy.com. When you’re there, you’ll have an opportunity, which I invite you to take, to subscribe to my podcast, which I hope you will do. And then I welcome telephone conversations so that I can hear what your communication problems and challenges are, explore solutions, find if I’m the resource that you need to work with, or do I refer you to someone else. And an initial call like that has no financial involvement. That number, 678-316-4300. Before we close, I want to recognize the co-producer of the Biz Communication Show, Mike Stewart, Nashville-based. He’s been a marketing and technology guide for me for many years. And his website is localinternetpresence.com. Terry Brock, again, so many gems of wisdom, so many guidelines from a genuine unquestionable expert, and that’s you. So, please tell us how you would sort of pull together our conversation today and leave us with a minute and a minute and a half of what I might say are— are some nuggets or some gems that we really ought to remember and act on? Terry Brock: We are living in an exciting time right now. It’s also very scary when we see AI changing our world profoundly, really every day, new things happen, it can get scary, but there’s great opportunities for those who can understand what’s happening and then be able to take that and use it to do good for others. Helping others out, helping them to achieve their goals is the way to do it. When you can help others get what they want, you’ll be able to get whatever you want, my buddy Zig Ziglar said that long ago, that you can get anything you want if you help enough other people get what they want. Take the power that’s available with AI and all these other little tools that are out there, that can help you to serve others better, to help them meet their needs, and by doing that, you’ll have the lifestyle that you want, the future that you want. The more you can help them, the better off you’ll be. Bill, it’s an honor to be with you as always. I appreciate you and for those of you watching it, get to know this guy. I know him one-on-one, he is genuine, sincere, and he really knows his stuff with a real PhD. I mean, he earned it and all that. So, he’s a guy you want to get to know for your communication, to get better and better. Bill, thank you so much for having me with you today. Bill Lampton: My privilege and keep that calendar handy because as you know, I will call on you again. And three months from now, we— we will have other remarkable changes that you have mastered and we’ll be calling on you, so keep that calendar handy. Terry Brock: You bet. Bill Lampton: Thanks to those of you who joined us for this dynamic conversation with Terry Brock on the video and on the audio portions of the Biz Communication Show. Invite you to be with us again next week for another informative, interesting, exciting, and beneficial version of the Biz Communication Show. I’m Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication guy.

Bill Lampton: Hi, there. Welcome to the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication guy. Every week, hosting a conversation with an outstanding business communication expert so that you and I can learn tips and strategies that will boost our business. Today, it’s an absolute delight to host again, as he’s been our guest several times, John Ray, coming to us from the Greater Atlanta Metropolitan Area. John Ray works with consultants, coaches, attorneys, fractional executives, and other professionals who sell expertise. He helps them diagnose and express their value, price accordingly, and build business through trust, not pressure. He’s the author of the five-star rated book, The Generosity Mindset, which redefines generosity as a professional asset, not as giving everything away. So, I know that you will join me in welcoming our expert for the day, John Ray. Hello, John. John Ray: Bill, what a delight to be with you, as always. Thank you for having me back. I really appreciate that very much. Bill Lampton: Well, I— I benefit every time, and I know that our viewers and our listeners benefit as well. You have built a wide reputation, John, as an expert on pricing. A topic that really, until you tackled it, I’m not sure that I heard very much advice about that. And I think of how [laughter] I could have used that advice three decades ago when I launched my career as a professional speaker, consultant, coach. And like many people, I was ready to take a fee, [laughter] not recognizing that there were options. So, one of my first uh questions, which I think our viewers and listeners will want to know is, what prompted you to get into the topic of pricing, to study it closely and carefully, and then to teach many hundreds through your seminars and through your book? To teach them how to maximize the rewards for the service that they provide. What prompted you to do that, John? John Ray: Well, that uh— that is an easy ans— question and answer for me. Basically, uh skinned knees and— and uh t-shirts in the drawer of— of bad pricing, bad engagements. Uh you know, I— I— I came out of corporate like a lot of people do, uh that don’t really know how to price their expertise, and they don’t know that they don’t know that. Um you know, they— they do what I did, which is kind of use others as a benchmark. And when others uh are pricing inadequately, that by definition, that makes your price inadequate. And we all suffer from that. And so, I saw this problem with my clients as well. And so, I got passionate about it. And— and the— the thing about it is, this— this is not information that— that is widely available to uh small business people and— and particularly expert service providers, like consultants and coaches and fractional executives that go out on their own, like I did, to uh and they’ve got a particular expertise, and they start their business. And, you know, there— there are just not a lot of resources immediately available. There are plenty of good ones out there, but they’re just not immediately available to uh people like us. And so, that’s what got me passionate about it. I went uh down that bunny trail, you might say, learning. And uh eventually, that led to me really focusing my practice around that and, you know, writing the book. Bill Lampton: So, as you say, you really tackled what was a needed topic, but in many ways a neglected topic. And as I said a minute ago, I really had not heard much about pricing services until I started attending your seminars and then soon after that, reading your wonderful book, which we will talk about. What, John, are some of the pricing mistakes— two or three that you see entrepreneurs, solo practitioners make? Who— um tell us what are— are some of the mistakes that you run across commonly with your clients and talking with people individually? Tell us— tell us what are some of the mistakes that you— you not only identify, but you help correct? John Ray: Yeah. So, I— I call them the red flags of inadequate pricing. Uh that’s my nomenclature for— for it. And uh you know, one of those is hourly pricing. If you’re pricing by time, pricing by the clock, uh your— your price by definition is inadequate. Um uh pricing is an input. It’s not— ha— has nothing to do with the outcome that the client receives— the transformation you bring. And it’s genu— genu— genu— generally— I’ll get that out in a second— very uh ha— ha— has no relation whatsoever and— and and much, much uh smaller than a lot of clients would be willing to pay when it’s calculated that way. Another few that I see are uh when— when an expert service provider accepts every client that comes their way. I mean, by definition, your price is too low because some of those folks that are coming your way are price-sensitive. They’re— they’re— they’re uh cheapskates. I mean, they— [laughter] they want to get something for as little as possible. And uh most clients aren’t that way, but some are. And so, if you’re pricing such that every client that comes your way, you’re accepting, what that means is uh your price is not high enough to— to drive away the price-sensitive clients. There’s a couple of them right there. Bill Lampton: Thank you for those. I— I think, John, about, for example, the profession that I know quite well because I’ve been a part of it for three decades, and that’s professional speaking. And there are so many people who cannot understand how, if a professional speaker is hired to speak at a conference or a convention, and they show up, and they’re there, and they give a one-hour presentation, why are they paid $7,500 or $10,000, or if you’re a celebrity speaker, why are you paid $25,000? And people in the mindset, that’s pricing by the hour, and they— they just don’t get it. Um But this moves us to a key point, which you make in your book and in your presentations, which I’ve been privileged to attend. And that is that we’re pricing by results. We’re pricing by benefits. For example, I— I would even take it down to— to the level of the guy who comes and fixes my washing machine. And, you know, he— he charges me $200. And somebody will say, “Well, my gosh, that guy makes $200 an hour.” I’m not paying him for the hour he was here. I’m paying him for the fact that I can use my washing machine again. So, elaborate on that and tell me if I’m on target with that. John Ray: Uh Well, absolutely. I mean, you’re paying— you’re paying him to have uh uh to get rid of those piles of dirty clothes that have been piled up, right? [laughter] Waiting— waiting to get him in there. Uh yeah, you’re paying for uh um uh peace of mind. You’re paying not to have to go down to the laundromat, right? You’re paying— there are a lot of things that you’re paying for beyond just the fix. And that’s, I think, the— the real I think, the— the— not— not secret, but the— the insight here is that clients see more value in us than we see ourselves. I mean, we look at our uh deliverables. Um you mentioned the speech. You know, the speech we give, and we don’t see the other intangibles that we bring to the table that clients willingly pay for and, for a lot— for— for most of them, are most important— most important, maybe even more important, than the deliverables themselves. Uh I mean, for example, someone that’s booking a speaker, they’re running a uh convention, a— a uh uh, you know, three-day kind of uh a workshop opportunity for their association. What are they looking for? I mean, they’re looking for happy association members. And so, when they come out of that speech uh— when those members come out of that speech with uh Dr. Bill Lampton having presented, what they want to hear is, “Wow, thank you so much for booking Dr. Lampton. He was fantastic. You know, I’m going to implement a lot of his ideas.” And uh that’s what they’re looking for, right? They’re looking to help deliver a little bit of transformation to their association members. So, it— it’s not about just the heads in the room or— or or uh the— as you say, the length of time. It’s about what does that speaker booker— what— what do they see in in terms of the outcome that’s going to occur because they hired Dr. Bill Lampton? Bill Lampton: Lois Creamer, John, is one of the— the most uh relied upon experts on what’s happening in professional speaking, since we’re talking about that. And one of the changes that she emphasizes, you know, every time I see her on LinkedIn or Facebook, is that what people are looking for now is not just a— a feel-good speaker, a motivational speaker. Right. They’re looking for a problem solver. Um And I know when I’ve talked to you before about pricing, one of the points you make is that as you’re talking with a prospect, you can help them estimate the value of implementing your services because of the problems it helps them solve and, therefore, they’re economically better off, right? John Ray: Yeah. It’s— it— it’s— it’s what you’re able to do because your problem is solved. So, I mean, let’s take an example of a fractional CFO who saves their client uh let’s say $100,000 because of a project that they have done. It’s not just the $100,000, it— it’s what the $100,000 enables a company to do that they couldn’t do before. So, what are you going to do with that $100,000? Is the question that CFO— that fractional CFO should be asking. Uh “What’s that going to enable you to do that you weren’t able to do before?” Um Hire uh maybe a salesman or two that uh are going to help your bottom line? Well, okay, that’s great. So, wh- what will that do? I mean, what will they bring in? Uh how will that change your business? “Well, you know, it’ll help increase our revenue by whatever percent we think.” Um “Ah! Well, what would that— what would that do for you? I mean, where would that get you as a company?” See, when you start asking these questions and being curious, digging a little deeper, what you find is that the value of what you deliver is not just the $100,000 of savings, as great as that is, it’s what comes out of that. And the value of that is much more significant than uh what we think going in. And that’s the value of questions. Bill Lampton: And what we really need to get across to our prospective clients is that we’re not an expense. We’re an investment. Um And we’re an investment that pays off. And it’s— it’s uh during our exploratory conversations with them, we get to the point where we illustrate how our service for them is a great investment because there will be returns, and efficiency, teamwork, and that good old word, “profit,” correct? John Ray: Correct. And— and I think what we are doing there is it’s not just about, you know, how do you talk a client into hiring you? It— it— it’s part of it, Bill. I think, and you and I have had this conversation before, several times. It’s about the mindsets that we bring to the table, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, we— we have these mindsets of of inadequacy and imposter syndrome. And when we have clients telling us that, “Hey, these are the results I got from working with you,” um “and I what a great investment this was,” I— I think that is what you can lean on instead of those uh ugly little voices in your head that tell you you’re not worthy. Uh Lean on what the clients say. Um And and that changes your language from language like um uh being a cost or being a burden to being an investment, to— to representing a return, representing transformation for someone that’s been uh stuck for a while. Bill Lampton: And we are the objective voice that comes in and helps them discover those items. John, uh in a minute, I want to talk about something that I adopted from you. And your book and your seminars have been a great value to me. And one of the greatest strategies that you taught me, and you’ve taught now many hundreds of others, is about the three levels of pricing. So, we’ll get back to that in just a second. [Commercial Break] Bill Lampton: You’re with the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication guy, and our distinguished guest today is John Ray, author of The Generosity Mindset. Before that short break, John, I mentioned that traditionally, of uh until you [laughter] and other experts started advising us, traditionally, we would present one price for our services when we were talking to a prospect. And yet, you have great rationale, which I want you to share with us, on why instead of giving one price— this is the price, take it or leave it— why we give three pricing levels instead. John Ray: Yeah. So— so, just to be clear, I mean, I didn’t um make this up. I mean, th- this is— this is one of these patterns you see in the business world that when you see it, you can’t— cannot unsee it anymore. Um um Many successful companies have implemented a good-better-best kind of pricing model, uh where “good” is kind of the basic, uh, you know, “better” is a little bit good, kind of in the middle, and “premium” is for those what I would call velvet-rope clients. I mean, they want the— the full um experience of what it is that you can offer. And what— what the value of options are is that different— it helps you align your services with the idea that different clients have different values. I mean, there are some that come to you and they want just the basics. They want to be able to um consume a little bit, um get what they can get out of that, and move on. There are others that, um, they want the full experience that you can give them. I mean, every— they— they love what you do, um they’re— they’re— they want transformation quickly, uh urgently, uh they want to make it happen, and they want to pay up to— to get that. Then, there are some that are in the middle. I mean, they— they want uh— they don’t want the basic, uh but maybe they don’t want to pay for the premium or or um they’re not as anxious, uh maybe to have that transformation as some of the premium clients and, you know, they would buy a uh uh, in that good-better-best construct, they would buy a better option, that middle option. So, what you’re doing is aligning your offering with the idea that different clients have different perceptions of value, and you’re giving people choice. And this just in, uh choices are empowering. People love choices. And when you’re having a conversation around choices, “Which one of these packages makes the most sense for you?” then it’s a collaborative conversation, not a “yes” or “no” to the one offering that you’ve given someone. Bill Lampton: Well, I— I— I know too that um there’s no way of truly estimating which category our potential clients fit, and so that’s why we give them the choice. I remember very well, John, you gave an illustration in one of your seminars that I attended that car manufacturers don’t just [laughter] just uh give us one level of car and that’s it. No, you— you have the low, medium, and the top quality, and you can choose which ones you want. Right. And there are those who could not afford or don’t see the need for the top quality, but would be very happy with that middle item, which meets their budget and meets their— their aesthetic requirements too, right? John Ray: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we see this with uh automobile manufacturers. You can look at their websites and see this. Uh We see it with uh fast-food places. I mean, when you go through a a fast-food uh establishment, what do they have? They have their traditional offerings, uh they have a value meal often, and they have some sort of premium, uh limited-time offer, right? And and so, they have essentially a good-better-best kind of model. They don’t call it that, but that’s what they have. And what it does is it appeals to a lot of different buyers at different— that are at different price points, different willingness to pay. Bill Lampton: I want to get, before we conclude, I want to get to a discussion about your book, The Generosity Mindset. John, I think I wore out two or three highlighters when I read this book. [laughter] And I noted this morning that there are 88 five-star reviews of the book on Amazon. I was privileged to even post a video review there. And the reason I took the time to do that was because the book was for me a turning point professionally, and I’m sure that’s the case for many readers. Tell us, two things— give us a quick, please, overview of what the book will help us accomplish, and then secondly, how we can get the book. John Ray: Sure. Well, and thank you for your support. I mean, I think you were maybe one of the first, if not the first review that I got. I— I haven’t forgotten that, [laughter] Bill. So, thank you for that. Bill Lampton: I was the most eager, that’s why. [laughter] John Ray: Well, thank you. Um Yeah, I think a couple of things. I mean, one is is— is that the book starts out with those mindsets that hold us back. And when we’re pricing our expertise, it— it’s a personal thing. I mean, we’re pricing what comes out of our head, what’s— what’s between our ears, and it’s highly personal. It’s— it’s not uh like pricing a product that comes off an assembly line somewhere or out of a factory. Um Um In our case, the factory floor is between our ears, and that gets personal. And what that brings in is those mindsets that I was talking about earlier that that hold us back, that cause us to um not think of ourselves as worthy sometimes, or not— not pricing to the level that we ought to price at. And— and so, the question is like, how do you deal with those mindsets? And what the book makes the argument for is that clients see more value in you than you see yourself. And so, if you are willing to lean into that and understand that, and understand what clients see— that it’s about client-perceived value, not what you think. What you think is not material. It’s what they think. And what— and the beautiful thing is what they think is— is wonderfully— it— it’s— it’s empowering for you if— because they do see more value in you than you see yourself, and if you price into that value, ironically enough, you’ll be charging better pricing than you would if you just relied on falling back on those old nasty voices in your head. Bill Lampton: Yes, we have to change our mindset, and your book is the— is the playbook for doing that. Tell us how we can get the book, John. I know I mentioned it’s on Amazon. It’s in paperback. Is there a Kindle version also? John Ray: Yes, there’s a Kindle version. Uh Yes, so you can get the book on Amazon. If you— I— those of you that want to uh patronize your local bookstore, feel welcome to do that because you can uh find it or or order it there. Um You can go to the generositymindset.com to learn more about where to buy the book, and and there are some free resources there, including uh the Red Flags of Inadequate Pricing that I mentioned earlier, uh help you kind of self-diagnose whether you’ve got a pricing problem in your practice. Bill Lampton: I encourage our viewers and listeners, if you’ve not had the advantage of reading that book and learning how to improve your pricing, how to improve your conversations with clients, and how to overcome some of the thoughts that have been holding you back, get that book today. John, please tell us your contact information. John Ray: Thank you, Bill. And thank you again for having me. It’s always a delight to be with you. I really— It’s my delight, as well. Yeah, I really appreciate you. Um Yeah, I would love to hear from folks directly. My email is john@johnray.co. Feel welcome to be in touch with questions or comments. And my website is johnray.co, uh so you can uh find out more about me and the work I do there. My blog uh is there as well, that gets regularly updated. And uh feel welcome to follow me on LinkedIn, JohnRay1, where I post a lot of uh information around and— and thoughts around value and pricing. And uh I also have a podcast that’s devoted to this uh area of my work, The Price and Value Journey. So, you can find that wherever your uh— where you consume your podcast. Bill Lampton: Thank you for that. And— and certainly, if you’re on LinkedIn, John Ray is a person you want to connect with. I— I know, John, you were at Vanderbilt. You were— what was it? English and Economics major, was that your double major? John Ray: That was it. That was it. Bill Lampton: And the English certainly shows up [laughter] because you— you write so well um quite a number of times a week, and I benefit and readers will, too. So, be sure to connect with John on LinkedIn. And now that John’s given his contact information, I’m happy to give mine. My YouTube channel is Bill Lampton, PhD. I’ve been posting instructional videos about communication there since 2007. Don’t look back at any of those, please. And in the last 8 years, I’ve gotten away from giving just my own guidelines, but I’ve been hosting the Biz Communication Show video podcast, which you’re partaking in now. And so, I invite you to subscribe to my YouTube channel. And then as for my website, I’m— my tagline is the Biz Communication guy, so go to bizcommunicationguy.com. And while you’re on my website, there’s a chance there, an opportunity for you to subscribe to my podcast, which I hope you will do. I welcome inquiries by telephone: 678-316-4300. And I will talk with you initially without any financial obligation. I’d like to hear your communication problems and strategies, and determine whether I’m the consultant to help you with them, or if not, who I can refer you to. And then, I certainly want to recognize the co-producer of this show, um Mike Stewart, based in Nashville, originally in Gainesville, Georgia, with me, where I’m still based. And John has been my marketing and technology advisor and guide since 1978, and I still rely on him heavily. His website, localinternetpresence.com. John Ray, I think of the— the information that we’ve covered, what— what might be a nugget or a capsule of— of information that in a minute or a minute and a half you could leave with our viewers and listeners? John Ray: Well, wh- when you hear the ad— the advice that it’s not about you, you think that’s negative, and in this case, it’s ironically a positive. Um, you know, a lot of us have grown up with mindsets around money and worth and uh, are we worthy? We, you know, we have imposter syndrome about the work that we do, particularly if we come out of corporate and we’re on our own all of a sudden. Bill Lampton: Which happened with you. John Ray: Which happened with me, and uh, a similar situation with you, you came out of academia and, and, you know, you’re out there all of a sudden on your own, right? Bill Lampton: In unknown territory. [laughter] John Ray: [laughter] And in the— in the wilderness, uh it’s so unknown. And um you let those mindsets that are— those voices in your head, and what’s been drilled into your head, um work on you. And here’s the good news. There’s an antidote to that. It’s— it’s leaning into where— where clients see value. And if you um lean on that, understand that they’ll tell you where they see value. Look at how they review you, how they uh what they write in their testimonials. Um The questions— the quality of the questions you ask, and your ability to be curious will help you dramatically in terms of learning where they see value and pricing into that value, and pricing more adequately than you ever have before. Bill Lampton: And John, one of the— the great revolutions that I think you’ve brought into discussions about dealing with clients, you just mentioned questions, and that’s the value of listening. So, many decades people went in and they had a spiel and they gave the spiel, and they wondered why they were ushered out the door with a polite handshake. [laughter] Yeah. And sometime, the next time I host you, I would like to spend the entire half hour talking about the power of questions and listening, and reflective listening, because those I know from your book and your coaching, those are very central to the success of the entrepreneur, aren’t they? John Ray: Well, they are. And uh I would welcome that because I’m always learning about that, uh Bill. And I think the point is is— is that we overestimate our ability to listen, even if we’re practiced at it, even if we’re intentional about it. The studies show this. So, this— this is not— this is something that we all have this in common, that— that we overestimate our ability to listen and understand what people are saying to us, both uh coming from their mouth and then coming from other ways that they communicate, right? And so, um I think that’s a really important piece of being able to diagnose clients and to price effectively. Bill Lampton: I came across this not too long ago. Larry King, who co— uh hosted 7,000 guests during his career on Larry King Live— many of us remember his shows— Larry King said, “I hosted 7,000 people, and I never learned anything while I was doing the talking.” [laughter] That’s a good thought for us to close on. And in closing, I certainly want to join you, the guest, in thanking, as I know you want to, John Ray, author of The Generosity Mindset. A tre— John is a tremendous asset to everyone who reads his book, attends his seminars, or meets with them individually. Thank you very much for being with us, John. John Ray: Thank you again, Bill. I appreciate you and your work very much. Thank you. Bill Lampton: And thanks to our viewers and listeners. Invite you to be with us again next week for another edition of the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication guy.

Host: Dr. Bill Lampton, The Biz Communication Guy Guest: Keith Nabb, President of Affordable Medicare Solutions Dr. Bill Lampton: Hi there! Welcome to the Business Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy. Our goal, as you know, is to provide you with communication tips and strategies that will boost your business. Today, we’re talking about a topic that confuses almost everyone: Medicare. If you've ever tried to navigate the jargon, the “parts,” and the “plans,” you know exactly what I mean. My guest today is a true expert in making the complex simple. Joining us from North Georgia is Keith Nabb, President of Affordable Medicare Solutions. Keith has been helping people navigate the insurance world for over 30 years and is a top producer in the industry. Keith, welcome to the show! Keith Nabb: Bill, it is an absolute pleasure to be here. I've looked forward to this for a long time. Dr. Bill Lampton: Keith, let's jump right in. When people hear “Medicare,” they often think of a massive, confusing government machine. From a communication standpoint, what is the biggest hurdle people face when trying to understand what Medicare actually is? Keith Nabb: You hit the nail on the head with the word “jargon”. In our industry, we love our acronyms—CMS, GEP, SEP, IEP. When a consumer hears these, their eyes just glaze over. The biggest hurdle is that the government uses letters for everything. You have Part A, Part B, Part C, and Part D. Then, to make it even more confusing, we have Plans A through N. People mistake a “Part” for a “Plan” all the time. My job, and the job of any good communicator in this field, is to translate that “government-speak” into plain English. Dr. Bill Lampton: That is so true. It's like a different language. How do you approach that first conversation with a client who is clearly overwhelmed? Keith Nabb: I use analogies. I tell people to think of Medicare like a house: Part A is your hospital coverage. It's the foundation and the walls. You've paid for this through your taxes while working. Part B is your medical coverage—doctors, tests, outpatient stuff. This is the roof. You pay a monthly premium for this. Part D is your prescriptions. Part C (Medicare Advantage) is like a condo. Someone else manages the exterior, and it bundles things together. If I can give them a visual or a concept they already understand, the “jargon” becomes less scary. Dr. Bill Lampton: That's a brilliant strategy. It's about finding common ground. Now, what about the timing? I hear people talking about “Enrollment Periods” and getting penalized if they miss them. That sounds like a communication nightmare. Keith Nabb: It is. There is so much misinformation out there. People get bombarded with mail—sometimes 50 pieces a day—when they turn 65. The most important thing to communicate is the “When”. You have a seven-month window around your 65th birthday to sign up. If you miss it, and you don't have other “creditable” coverage, the government can charge you a late enrollment penalty for the rest of your life. Our job is to be the “signal in the noise” and give them the exact timeline they need to follow. Dr. Bill Lampton: Keith, you mentioned you have a team of agents. How do you train them to maintain that high level of clear communication? Keith Nabb: We focus on listening. A lot of agents want to show how smart they are by using big words. I tell my team: “You have two ears and one mouth for a reason”. We ask questions: “What are your specific doctors?” “What medications are you taking?” “What is your budget?” If we don’t listen first, we can’t communicate a solution that fits. We also use a “Teach Back” method. After explaining something, we ask the client to explain it back to us. If they can’t, it means we didn’t communicate it clearly enough. Dr. Bill Lampton: That “Teach Back” method is a classic communication tool, and it's wonderful to hear you’re using it in such a technical field. Keith, before we wrap up, what is one final piece of advice for someone who is about to start this journey? Keith Nabb: Don't do it alone. You don’t pay a broker or an agent anything—the insurance companies do. Find someone who is an “independent” broker who can look at all the plans, not just one. And most importantly, find someone who speaks your language, not the government’s. Dr. Bill Lampton: Excellent advice. Keith, how can people get in touch with you and your team at Affordable Medicare Solutions? Keith Nabb: The best way is our website: affordablemedicaresolutions.com. You can also call us at 770-945-5261. We're here to help you decipher the jargon. Dr. Bill Lampton: Keith Nabb, thank you for being a fantastic guest and for shedding light on such a complex topic. And to our viewers, remember: clear communication is the key to any successful business transaction. I’m Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy. We’ll see you next time!

Sure, here’s a script from this audio: Interview Script Host: Dr. Bill Lampton, Business Communication Expert. Guest: Gina Carr, CEO of Stark Raving Entrepreneurs and AI Specialist. Bill Lampton: Hi there! Welcome to the Business Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy, once again bringing you communication tips and strategies that will boost your business. Yet, this is not a solo act. I bring you those tips and strategies through a guest, a highly qualified business communication expert. Today, I am so delighted to introduce you to Gina Carr, the visionary CEO of Stark Raving Entrepreneurs, where she empowers leaders to harness AI-driven tools for transformative marketing and sales strategies. With an MBA from Harvard and an engineering degree from Georgia Tech, Gina—affectionately known as the Tribe Builder—specializes in cultivating passionate communities of raving fans. As a dynamic international speaker and serial entrepreneur, she’s founded multiple successful ventures, including an award-winning real estate firm and a chain of community magazines. I knew her way back then when she was in those ventures. Gina, formerly the CEO and speaker curator of TEDxDuPree Park, now resides in Orlando, Florida, with her fiancé, Terry Brock. She’s an advocate for animals, freedom, and plant-based living. Her zest for life inspires all those around her, including me, for a long time, I can assure you. So, let's now welcome Gina Carr to the stage! Hello there! Gina Carr: Hello there! I am delighted to be here. Bill Lampton: Well, it’s terrific to have you here. As the introduction qualified, you're a highly credentialed guest who has mastered business communication for a long time. Gina, many of our podcast viewers and listeners are entrepreneurs. Some are long-time entrepreneurs who started, as you and I did, about three decades ago. Some are new entrepreneurs—a few of those by choice, some because the business they were in no longer included them. For all of us who are entrepreneurs, I think of your MBA in business from Harvard University. Judging by what you’ve learned as a highly successful entrepreneur, what are some of the business and communication tips that you would give today to those who are entrepreneurs? How do they make it? Gina Carr: Well, that’s such a great question and something that I think many entrepreneurs ask themselves every day: what is the key? What am I going to do? What will make me successful? I would say the number one thing is that you really need to be clear about who you serve and what problem you solve. And as much as those are important, why you do that is also important to you, because there’s going to be a lot of ups and downs on the entrepreneurial road and you’re going to need to be clear so that it comes across to your potential clients as well as sustains you. You also need to be very clear about how you are going to make money, how you’re going to monetize. That may sound obvious, but it is not. Especially for people who are coaches, speakers, authors, people who are in professional services—but they’re not so much traditional professional services like an attorney or an accountant—how to price those services, I think, can be tough for a lot of entrepreneurs. And then my final main tip here might be a surprise, but it’s going to be: work out. And I say that because I know that it’s important to have that at least one nugget of your day—and I think it’s important to exercise every day—one nugget of your day that you are in total control and that provides stability and confidence to your life that comes across through so many other aspects of your business. It’s like powering up my battery on my phone; I need to charge it every day. It’s like a power-up session for your body and your mind, and I find if I do that, it really helps me in every area of my day, especially in my business. Bill Lampton: I would echo, underline, and emphasize everything you said. First of all, to be clear about what we are offering and to be able to state it with clarity. There are many wonderful consultants who can help us refine and define how we state our mission. It’s important to have help from others on that. Gina, this takes me back to the first year I was an entrepreneur. I remember so well having lunch with someone who also was a member of the National Speakers Association, and I knew that I needed some advice from him. So, I took along a draft of my website. He looked at it, and of course, with pride of authorship, I was thinking he’d say, “Oh, this looks great, this will be a real winner, you’ll attract clients.” But what he said to me was, “What you’re doing is just presenting your credentials,” which is a mistake that many entrepreneurs and even seasoned business people make. I put my degrees, I put clients I’d had, and it all focused primarily on my qualifications. But you and I have learned, and marketing experts have taught us, that as you say, it’s not so much who we are, it’s not so much what we’ve accomplished, but what really counts so much is: what can we do for other people? What is our service? How will they benefit from being with us? And I would like for you to give us some further tips on the business of pricing. There’s a wonderful expert friend of mine in Atlanta named John Ray; he specializes in helping people on their pricing. And one more note on that—I remember also, Gina, near the start of my consulting, speaking, and coaching career, I had somebody say that they would represent me in a speakers bureau. That sounded great. So I gave them my materials and then, after a year, nothing had happened. I called him and I said, “What’s the problem?” And he said, “The problem is you priced yourself so low everybody identifies you as a beginner.” So, give us some guidelines on pricing, please, and tell us how we get the courage and the fortitude to state that affirmatively without apology. Gina Carr: Oh boy, that’s a real tough one. I have certainly learned a lot about pricing over the years and generally, I tend to be too low on the pricing scale. So, I have actively worked to learn from people who are charging more and to confidently present a price that is probably higher than I am comfortable with. I think if it doesn’t make you feel like “ooh” when you say it, you’re probably pricing yourself too low. So, to your example of speaking in particular, speakers come out and they say, “Well, if I’m a brand-new speaker, yes, I should price myself on the low end.” For professional speakers—let’s just throw out some numbers here—generally, that would be in the $2,000 to $5,000 range. Even though that sounds like a lot of money—it is a lot of money for an organization to pay—for the professional speaker, for the ones who have more, it’s not just experience, it’s the background of the person who is doing the speaking and what they bring to the table. You were talking about earlier, what is that change that they help people make? What is that transformation? So, the transformation and the years of experience not necessarily as a speaker, but as an expert doing whatever it is that you do, could translate to right out of the gate a speaker could be in the $7,500 to $10,000 range or, if there’s some celebrityhood to it, in the $20,000 range for a single keynote. So, I hope that that’s helpful. It is hard to say and you really do need to do some research. I’ll tell you one of the ways that it’s making it easier for me to do the research when I’m making a proposal for a new service or to a new client: is using my AI tools, which I’m very big on, using AI tools—artificial intelligence—to say, “What’s a price range for this service? What do you think of this? What should I be asking for this?” And give me different levels, which in the past, that would have been hard for me to come up with, but because of AI, I can come up with those levels. And I do like to go back to a prospect with different levels of opportunities—a high, medium, and a low—and really give some options because you don’t know. A lot of times people will choose the higher price even though you think, “Well, that’s crazy, why would someone choose that?” It happens a lot. Bill Lampton: Well, they choose the higher price because they see the value in it. They choose the higher price because they know it’s going to make, as your introduction used the word, a transformative difference. And by the way, Gina, I couldn’t ask for a better transition to our next topic because you mentioned artificial intelligence. I know that over the past several years, you have been, along with your fiancé and business associate Terry Brock, not only learning artificial intelligence and how we can use it, but you’ve been teaching it ardently. Now, for those of us who maybe know the term and we’ve heard how some other people do it, what would you give as great starting points for really getting so involved in artificial intelligence that it not only makes your work easier, but it makes it far more productive? Gina Carr: Well, just think of AI, and let’s just talk about ChatGPT, which is one that many people have heard of and most people think of AI as ChatGPT, which it’s so much more than that. But even just ChatGPT is your new 24-hour, seven-day-a-week assistant that never goes on vacation, never needs a break, and never needs a raise. They can help you with so many things personally and professionally. Just personally, let’s just look at an example from a few months ago—maybe it was a year ago—there was a problem with our toilet. And we used our ChatGPT to turn on the mode that allows the ChatGPT phone to look into whatever you’re showing it and said, “Hey, what’s the problem here?” And it identified that it was a flapper problem. We ordered a new flapper for less than $10 on Amazon and then we asked ChatGPT to help us learn, show us how to install it. And so we saved ourselves hundreds of dollars, and that’s a personal issue. I use it all the time with recipes and those sorts of things. So, those are on the personal side. On the business side, I mentioned pricing of services, writing those proposals, thinking of what would be the name of a new workshop or the name of a new service. My goodness, I do a little demo in some of my presentations where in about five minutes, I go all the way from the idea of a product, naming the product, developing packaging, developing the marketing plan for the product—things that would have taken months in the past can now take about five minutes, and they’re really, really good. Bill Lampton: It is, it’s very much like a hired assistant that is so incredibly cost-effective. My favorite—and of course, I know you and Terry have mentioned, I think it’s Grok and some others—the one I use probably the most is Perplexity, which is sort of a confusing title because Perplexity sounds like you’re confused. But for an example of how I use it, let’s say I’m going to write an article or I’m going to do a YouTube short video. And I might ask Perplexity, “What are some famous quotes on this topic?” And then I’ve got some highly qualified, credible resources familiar to the public that I can quote. Now, of course, one thing that you and I and many people who are in the business communication arena would emphasize is that there’s an ethical problem involved, and that is that if you go to ChatGPT or if you go to Perplexity—the amazing thing about it for anyone who hasn’t used it is the second you get through typing your question, the answer starts being typed—one of the ethical problems here is that people will get a large printout of information and then they’ll just copy and paste that and publish it as their own. I suppose you’ve had to warn clients about that, Gina. Gina Carr: Yes, actually, I just was doing that yesterday with a client, and she was worried that she’s using AI too much. After reading the sample that she shared, I think she probably was. And so what we talk about in our program—and Terry Brock, my fiancé, coined this term—he calls it “UIs.” You take your initial story or your videos or whatever and you get AI to help you with that. If AI generates it initially, you still need to review it, you need to add your own stories, you need to ask it to make it more formal, make it shorter, make it more humorous, make it sound more like you. And the more that you feed it—that is, you’ve loaded in your own videos, your own transcripts, your own articles that are in your pre-AI voice—then the more it’s going to come back in your own voice. And AI has the ability to organize the thoughts very well, the ability to just polish and make things sound much better than what I sound initially. I’ll give it what I want it to say, but it makes it sound a little bit better. So, that’s one way to use AI. Bill Lampton: It is, for those who may not have ventured in that direction yet. Gina Carr is a great resource for teaching AI because she’s been doing that for several years. Gina, we mentioned in the introduction that you are known as a tribe builder. In just a few seconds, we’re going to come back and talk about that. (Brief break with an ad for Bill Lampton’s services) Bill Lampton: Hello again! You’re on the Business Communication Show with our distinguished, highly qualified guest, Gina Carr. Gina, I remember as long ago as 20 or 25 years, I interviewed you one time about your term “tribes.” Now, tell us please what a tribe is, how we develop it, and what are the benefits? Gina Carr: Well, a tribe is nothing more than a group of people that have bought into a particular philosophy or movement or leader. Typically, there is a leader that says, “Hey, let’s go—we’re at Point A, let’s go to Point B. This is how I think we need to go there, and do you want to follow me? If so, here’s how we’re going to go.” And building a successful tribe includes communication channels such as you have this great channel right now. So, you are a tribe builder, Bill, whether you think of yourself that way or not. You’re teaching people how to communicate professionally, how to communicate better. And so it’s so helpful. People are saying, “Do I want to communicate better? Well, yes, I do.” Well, watch Bill’s show. Bill is going to communicate with you through his show and other posts that he’s doing in the social media world and in the digital world. And so that’s one way that people have joined, not officially but effectively, they have joined your tribe and they are learning from you about how to communicate better. This is one of the so powerful ways to build a tribe because then you develop trust with the people who are following you. And when you want to help them, serve them, or work with them, they are more likely to know you better and to more easily make a decision as to whether they want to follow you to that next step. And as we talk about business here, is that next step a paid opportunity, is it a free opportunity? There’s a mix and match that you’re going to do as a tribe builder to help people. And often it is going to be a paid opportunity because you can serve people better when you’re making the money so that it allows you to serve people more. Bill Lampton: I don’t mind admitting some of the mistakes I made early in my entrepreneurial career. And probably the most blatant mistake—I wish, Gina, that I’d heard you talk about tribes before my first six months—because not knowing any better, I just picked up the phone and started calling people and telling them how fortunate they would be to have my services. But you and I know another benefit of the tribe is that it’s so much more effective when we have formed a tribe and we’ve associated with those people and they know what we do and they’ve benefited from it, and they become our advocates. It’s far more persuasive to have someone else talk about our credibility and the benefits of working with us than us doing it ourselves. And then a second thing I would say about tribes is we learn from those people. We learn business insights, we learn about leadership, we learn about networking. I would imagine as you look back, since you started out as a tribe builder, the reason that you are, in my judgment, very high in the pinnacle of success is not just because of your own doing, it’s because of your tribe. Gina Carr: Oh, completely. There’s an old African saying: “If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.” And so that is definitely a fundamental philosophy for me of tribe building. Because of all the people that are in my life, including you, including Terry Brock, including the amazing members of our Stark Raving Entrepreneurs community that I’ve had the honor to serve, I’m able to do more. I’m able to impact more people, I’m able to serve a lot more people, and that makes my heart sing. That makes me happy. And I just want to help people have better lives. Bill Lampton: It’s just not a solo way to success, is it? Gina Carr: Not at all. And with AI tools and the agentic AI tools that people these days are having full suites of executives that are working for them that are all artificial, they are all AI agents. This is something that’s going to happen more and more. People are going to be able to build bigger companies with fewer real employees—in real-life employees. But the ones that they have now, they don’t necessarily need to fire them or lay them off, they free them up from tasks they were doing that were filled with more drudgery, that were boring. The AI can do those tasks now, and so the human can do things that are more creative and things that are going to be better for bringing in more business. And so it’s a win-win for everybody. That’s part of why I’m so excited about it. Bill Lampton: That’s a wonderful point for you to emphasize because so many who hear about AI think it’s gloom and doom for their careers. It’s not. It’s an opening to new skills and to new opportunities. And when people take the training that you and Terry Brock and other experts offer, they can have a far more productive, lucrative, and service-oriented business. Time for one more question, Gina. You are a veteran professional speaker. I remember we were in the Georgia chapter of the National Speakers Association back in the late 1990s. So you have been an in-demand speaker, even internationally. In just a few sentences, what tips would you give to business leaders—what are the two or three keys to highly effective speaking? Gina Carr: Well, one is to be clear on how you want your audience to be transformed when you’re done. What is the position? They’re at Point A and they’ll be at Point B after they have heard you speak. So what is that? Be very clear on that. Another key skill is to engage the audience. And as we’ve been speaking here, I’ve been using my hands, I use head gestures, I use smiles, I use voices lower, voices higher. Those are engagement techniques that mostly I do naturally, but I do work on those. And they’re much more engaging than the speaker who sits here and just talks like this in a monotone, right? So variety! People want variety. Exactly. So those are some of the main skills. Connecting with the audience and then actually selling. If you’re going to be a professional speaker and you want to get paid to show up to speak, you have to be able to sell yourself as a professional speaker. It’s a joke in the business that you’re actually a salesperson who gets to get on stage every now and then and give a speech. Bill Lampton: Yes, it doesn’t just happen, does it? Gina Carr: It does not. Bill Lampton: Gina, this has been a highly informative, helpful, and interesting conversation. I refer to the Business Communication Show not as an interview but as a conversation with an expert, which I’ve been fortunate to host today. I know that there are those who would like your contact information. So please share that with us. Gina Carr: Well, easiest way to reach me is at ginacarr.com—G-I-N-A-C-A-R-R dot com. And then also, I’d love you to check out my community: starkravingentrepreneurs.com. That’s a great place to find us. And I do have a tool that is available for free. It’s called aitools4biz.com—AI tools the number four B-I-Z dot com. And that has some of my favorite AI tools that I’m using right now and that we have videos on there that help you know how to use those tools better. So that’s a free resource for your community that you can share with your folks. Bill Lampton: Hey, free is everybody’s favorite word, isn’t it? I think so. I am going to order that and I encourage our viewers and listeners to order that. I know it’s going to be highly resourceful. And now that Gina has given her contact information, I’m happy to give mine. First, my YouTube channel: Bill Lampton PhD is the way it’s listed. I have been producing educational videos on the area of communication since 2007—don’t look at any of those earlier ones, please. And in the last eight years, most of my videos are for the Business Communication Show. So you will, by going through and, by the way, while you’re on my YouTube channel, please subscribe there. And then my website—since my tagline is Biz Communication Guy—logically my website is bizcommunicationguy.com. And while you’re there, you can subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t done that already. I welcome phone calls with no obligation for an exploratory call to talk about your communication challenges and problems and how I can assist you with them. And then I want to give credit to the co-producer of this show, Mike Stewart. Mike is based in Nashville. His website is localinternetpresence.com. Mike Stewart and I met, Gina, at the Georgia chapter of the National Speakers Association in the first year that I was getting going. And Mike said to me, “Have you got a website?” And I said, “Yes.” He said, “Does it have sound on it?” And I said, “No.” And of course, then we started out in print but we needed to get to sound, and now we include video. So localinternetpresence.com, I certainly encourage you to check with my long-time associate and long-time mentor, Mike Stewart. Gina, this has again been so intriguing, so informative, and such a wonderful pleasure to host you. What nugget of a minute or a minute and a half would you like to leave with our viewers and listeners? Gina Carr: Well, I love Stephen Covey’s philosophy or one of his principles of: begin with the end in mind. And I think it’s important to think about—at your eulogy, what will people say about you? And so think about that as you are planning your life for today and for the next year and for as long as you are going to be on this planet. Life is hard—and not in a bad or a sad way. Life is hard; choose your hard. If you want to be an entrepreneur, it’s going to be hard. But being an employee is also hard, and doing nothing—sitting on the couch watching TV all day—is also hard in other ways. It’s going to be very hard for you in financial and health and mental health and all of those ways. So, I just want to encourage you: begin with the end in mind, choose your hard, recognize that it’s going to be hard. But which hard is going to make you happier right now? What are you willing to go through—whatever the pain is—for the gain that’s going to make you the happiest and fulfill your life? Bill Lampton: Reminds me of a great piece of advice I heard years ago: they call it W-O-R-K, not P-L-A-Y. And we do have to do the things that are difficult. We have to do the things that might be unpleasant. Learning AI is not something you’ll do in one afternoon, but it will bring dividends when you get into it—you’re amazed already at what can happen. So thank you, Gina, for being our wonderful guest today. I’ve looked forward to this opportunity and keep your calendar handy because I know we will call on you again for the Business Communication Show. And to those of you who have been with us today on the Business Communication Show, we invite you to be with us again next week for another business communication strategies and tips session. Thank you. I’m Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy.

Dr. Bill Lampton: Hi there! Welcome to the Business Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy, bringing you tips and strategies that are certain to boost your business and mine. And I don’t bring you these tips and strategies solo; I bring them through a conversation with a lively, highly qualified guest. And today, we certainly have that guest coming to us from Montana: Diana Damron. Diana Damron has one goal: help individuals, teams, and organizations build trust from the inside out. She enlists what she calls the 3 Cs: Civility, Communication, and Character, to perform that transformation. Diana is a former television anchor who works with organizations to create, grow, and maintain cultures of trust. Described by her clients as “The Human Whisperer,” Diana has made it her mission to take on the toxic workplace and replace it with a culture of trust. Diana’s latest book, Civility Unleashed: Second Edition, is a “how-to” book for those who want to foster and work in an environment where talented people can thrive. Additionally, Diana provides readers with a transformative 5-step civility tool. And I want to say, a couple of months ago, I read that book, benefited from it greatly, gave it a five-star review on Amazon, and I encourage you to get Civility Unleashed: Second Edition. Along with Diana’s TEDx talk, she’s been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Southwest Airlines’ LUV Lines, and national television and radio interviews. She’s a former television anchor, co-host, and reporter who studied with nationally and internationally renowned speech experts. Recognized as a mental fitness coach, Diana is certified by the International Board of Certified Trainers and is a certified partner of Everything DiSC. Now, as for her sense of humor, Diana stopped taking herself too seriously the day that she walked off the runway at New York City’s Waldorf Astoria Hotel during a national modeling competition and fell right into the laps of shocked audience members. While Diana didn’t take home the Runway Model of the Year award that year, she did leave as National Model of the Year for Television. So, I know you will join me now in welcoming Diana Damron. Hello, Diana! Diana Damron: Hey Bill! It’s so great to be here. I’m laughing because I always think back about walking off the runway. It was a packed house, too. It was absolutely jam-packed. Now, the good thing was, there—the guys who caught me were these two really good-looking gentlemen who were kind of spotters. They were great, but yes, my—I was walking in air for a while. Dr. Bill Lampton: Up in the air, right? Diana Damron: Pop—yeah, up in the air, exactly. Dr. Bill Lampton: Well, I’ve had my “chivi-chays” moments, I call them. I—I think the one that I talk about most often is when I was MCing a college event with about 500 people in the audience, and they were honoring their alumni, giving four alums what they call the Medallion Award. And I had gotten the bios to read about them to introduce them, and I’d read them over very carefully, as you would do as a TV anchor. And when I was in the middle of reading one of the bios, the audience just erupted in laughter, and I couldn’t figure out why. Did I say something profane? So, I sat down, and the person next to me explained that I was supposed to have said that the lady who was being honored had written a play about the college in 1956, but unfortunately, Diana, I said she wrote the play in 1856. Diana Damron: (Laughs) Oh, I gotta tell you, when you do anything live, anything can happen. Absolutely anything can happen. Yep, yep. Dr. Bill Lampton: Yes, and— Diana Damron: She looked great for her age, right? Dr. Bill Lampton: (Laughs) Oh right, I mean she wasn’t that ancient, but—fortunately, we met afterwards and she had a great sense of humor, so it worked out okay. And you and I know, as longtime presenters, whether it’s on radio, TV, a seminar, a keynote speech, we know that we’re going to goof. In fact, one of the things I do when I’m coaching a client about speaking, on the handout I give them, I put “Don’t try to be perfect,” and I misspell “perfect.” I say “P-R-F-F-C-T,” and they say, “Hey, you misspelled that!” I said, “Yes, but you got the point, didn’t you?” And we have to learn from our mistakes, laugh at them, and just move forward, don’t we? Diana Damron: Yes, and it makes us so much more human when we’re not perfect. Dr. Bill Lampton: Yes, I don’t want to hear a mannequin with a mouth, you know? Diana Damron: Right. Dr. Bill Lampton: An absolute robot. We’re getting to your theme of civility. Diana Damron: Mhm, mhm. Dr. Bill Lampton: Was there something in your own work experience that drove you to delve into this topic, to become an expert in it, to write a book about it now in its second edition, to speak on the topic of civility, hold seminars, talk about it in interviews? Take us back to how this started for you. Diana Damron: Two things happened, Bill. First of all, I had gone through something—it’s entitled a modeling school, but it was really a finishing school where you learn, yes, you learn to walk on a runway and you learn to take photographs—or be photographed. But you also learn a lot about manners and speech. And it was so interesting, after I went through the course itself, then—I believe it was during my college years, I came back and during the summer I started teaching. And one of the courses I taught was all about manners and etiquette. I was, I don’t know, 17, 18, 19 years old, and I was teaching women who were about twice my age, who were coming back into the workforce after staying home and raising kids. And they came in and they kind of, you know, you could see they weren’t comfortable, they weren’t confident, they kind of sat back in their chair. Interestingly enough, I noticed as they learned more about manners and more about etiquette, you could see just them sit up, take notice, and there was a confidence. And I always found that was fascinating. What is it about this power of manners, courtesy, etiquette that made these women who, as I say, I was this little kid teaching them, to take notice and to really make this big difference? So, that was always in the back of my mind and I always wanted to do something with that, but at the same time, what I didn’t want to do is teach about knives, forks, and spoons. I—it wasn’t about the—like dining etiquette. So, that was—that was roaming around. And then I ended up in a situation where I was the target in a toxic environment. When I say target, I certainly didn’t know what that word meant in terms of business, but if you imagine having a bullseye on you at—at business, at work, that’s how I felt. And there was no question that I was the target, and it’d been made very obvious to—by the leader. What was interesting to me is I’m a confident woman. I’d been raised by the most amazing parents, so I didn’t have any of that baggage from a childhood. I went home to a supportive family, so I wasn’t going home to some kind of negativity. And yet, Bill, that situation affected me so strongly that I—I couldn’t eat, I couldn’t sleep, I didn’t know what end was up. And I thought it was a one-off. I—I really thought, oh, this has been unique. And interestingly enough, because I was confident when people talked about toxic environments and all of this before, I actually thought, oh, they must be pretty thin-skinned. I can’t believe it’s that bad. Well, it is. And what I found, Bill, was that increasingly, when I looked at the research, it’s more often you find a toxic work environment than not. Civility was needed. Dr. Bill Lampton: Well, I—I can relate to that in a couple of ways. One is that I’ve been a professional speaker, speech coach, and consultant now for three decades. But prior to that, I was in management positions. And as I read your book and read your illustrations about the lack of civility, one of my bosses came to mind. And I’ll have to say that I really thought Hitler missed a good man. Diana Damron: (Gasps) Oh no! Dr. Bill Lampton: And I endured that for—for five years. And you know yourself, having endured a situation like that, it’s very demoralizing, it saps your strength, it—it takes away your—your desire to serve to your ultimate ability. It—it’s very difficult. And so, your going through that gave you a mission. So, let’s—let’s move next to define civility. Uh, I—I know you’ve been asked this many times, how can you tell when an organization is operating with civility? Diana Damron: So, let me go back one step, Bill, and explain also, and I’m sure this happened to you: one of the lethal aspects of incivility or a toxic work environment is—is when you leave at the end of the day, it doesn’t stay there. You drag all of those emotions home. Dr. Bill Lampton: Yes. Diana Damron: Which—which means the importance of getting this right is invaluable. I mean, because you’re not affecting—you’re not just lonesome and it’s isolated to you, you are just sending out those vibes no matter what. So, to your question: how do you define civility? I think this is—this is where we really have an issue today. I define it—my definition for civility is the consistent communication of respect. What makes that definition hard? The “consistent” piece, right? So, it’s consistently being respectful. Now, we live in a world of conditional civility. In other words, as long as you look like me, maybe you’re the same color as me, or the same age as me, or you live like I do, or you think like I do, or in today’s world, you vote like I do, then I will be civil to you. I will respect you. But if you don’t check off all those “same-as,” you don’t deserve my respect. And that’s what we see over and over and over again. So, my whole point is, number one, you gotta focus on that “consistent.” Whether or not you feel good, whether or not you’re in a bad mood and you just had an argument with your spouse, or with a kid of yours, or whatever, or it’s just one of those days when you wake up on the wrong side of the bed, it’s required of you to put it together, get disciplined, get stronger, and be consistent with the civility. Dr. Bill Lampton: Yes, and—and as you say, it’s a—and I look at the society as you were describing it, and I think the word “toxic” fits a lot of places. Let’s think for a minute about social media. My gosh, people who post on social media on “hot topics,” we could call them, controversial current topics, they do it almost, from my judgment, they do it almost as though they’re anonymous, as though—as though they’re hiding behind the internet and therefore they can say anything that they want to. So that there’s no open-mindedness, there’s no consideration of what might—what might drive that other person to think that way. And this brings me to the three Cs that you talk about, the letter C, the 3 Cs. What—what are those? Diana Damron: When I thought about my experience in the work environment, and then I thought, you know, what’s really at play here? These things kept popping up: civility, which, as I say, I define as the consistent communication of respect; communication, how we send and how we receive messages—and I don’t mean just the words, there’s the tone of voice, there’s our body language, there’s how quickly we respond; and character. And I think of character as who you are when you think that no one is watching, because more often than not, somebody is watching. So, if you think about it, those three Cs are actually interdependent, they look like a Venn diagram. So, if you ignore one—for instance, we are ignoring our civility right now. I mean, and I can give you lots of reasons for that, but we are ignoring our civility. That doesn’t just stay in that little circle of civility, that affects our communication. As you pointed out, social media, the way we communicate on social media shows no respect for the other person at all. Well, you carry that to the next C, the character, it—it reflects on who we are. And if we ignore our civility, we ignore our communication long enough, it changes our character. So I tie them together by saying you communicate your character by how you exercise your civility. In other words, you tell everyone who you are, what you are, what you stand for, by how you treat others. Dr. Bill Lampton: We’re going to come back in just a minute, and we’re going to talk about something that is certainly the central part of your expertise, and that’s communication skills. You’re a former television anchor, reporter, you’re a keynote speaker, this is the Biz Communication Show, so in a minute, we’re going to get your tips on how to make effective presentations. Dr. Bill Lampton: Okay Diana, here we are with Diana Damron on the Biz Communication Show talking about civility and related topics. And just before that short break, I mentioned that we want to explore your take, your advice on presentation skills because this is something you have done at the top levels as a TV anchor and reporter and as a keynote speaker, TEDx speaker. So, many of us have to give presentations who are not professional speakers. We have to give annual reports, we may have to speak at our business and social gatherings, we possibly have to give an outline of a plan—there are many ways that we have to speak even though we’re not professional speakers. What are—or what are keys that you would pass along to us, Diana? Diana Damron: Well, first of all, Bill, I—I think it’s so important to know your subject. Right? Because you might have a memorized speech and all of a sudden that your memory kind of goes one place else and you forget it, but if you know your subject, you can keep talking about it and you can keep ad-libbing about it and continue the conversation—the speech. So, really know your subject matter well would be my first—my first tip. The second tip is we tend to focus on ourselves, and I would say that’s at the hub of so many of our issues today. But when you focus on yourself as a speaker and you worry so much about how you’re coming across or how I’m coming across, it makes—we set ourselves up for failure, right? We set ourselves up to be really concerned about us. And I would say pivot that and think about your audience. How can I make my audience feel more comfortable? How can I get my message across to my audience? How can I connect to my audience? And so often, that comes with a smile. I mean, it—it seems so small, but just connecting with somebody and smiling, or at least softening the expression. If you’re talking about something very serious or dramatic that happened, you’re not going to be smiling through the entire thing—entire speech. But at the same time, you want warmth to be connecting—you want to be connecting with warmth, so you want to be sure that you’re smiling. And I think the whole thing is to really be thinking about the audience. Really be thinking about that person on the other side of the stage, on the other side of the microphone, but think about what do they need? What—what’s one thing that will leave them in a better place when they walk out of either virtual or walk out of the room? What—what’s a takeaway that will change their life for the better? Dr. Bill Lampton: I—I applaud everything you’re saying. And—and let’s start with your bit about let’s not just come in there with a—with a memorized text. Uh, traditionally, and I’ve been a—a speech coach for a long time and I’ve been a professional speaker for a long time, and traditionally the instruction has been write out the speech word for word, memorize it, uh, don’t vary from it. And as you just indicated, the focus is in the wrong place. The focus is on you. But when we turn the focus to the audience, one of the things we discover quickly is that audiences are not our critics; audiences are our cheerleaders. Because you’ve been in situations, certainly not with yourself speaking, but you have been in situations where the speaker visibly and audibly flops, and that’s a very uncomfortable situation for the audience. The audience is not your critic; the audience is your cheerleader. They want you to succeed. Plus, they are not looking for perfection because perfection is not the way that we communicate. So, I—I applaud your—your focus there. I’ve often thought that there—there are three things that we can concentrate on when we’re giving a presentation. One is ourselves, as you said, the impression we’re making; the second is the audience; and the third is the message. If we focus on anything except the message and the audience, we’ve got a real problem, don’t we? Diana Damron: Yes, exactly. And sometimes, you know, you talk about flopping in a speech, sometimes you can think you’re flopping because you misread the audience. I remember one time I was speaking to a—and it was a fairly small group and it was a nonprofit, and there was a woman, Bill, she was right in front of me. I mean, it’s not like I could look away from her, and she appeared to be asleep. Just—oh my gosh, and that is not something to build you up when you’re trying to speak to someone sleeping. Well, this woman, apparently that was the way she listened. She listened—and I—and I’ve had a dear friend who listens the same way. He was kicked off of jury panels because when he listened, he closed his eyes, and everybody thought he was asleep. Well, this woman who I thought was sleeping through my speech came up afterwards and she said, “That was great! May I hire you to help our organization?” So, sometimes we get so caught up with the way that the audience looks at us that we begin to start doubting ourselves and then we can really begin to start plummet. Dr. Bill Lampton: Well, what I’ve found effective—and I’m sure you have too—is my mother often said “Don’t talk to strangers,” but she’s right when it comes to audiences, too. We—we shouldn’t be talking to people we haven’t had—you know, if they’ve got a reception ahead of time, get there and—and get involved, and—and all of a sudden talk with three or four people, and you’ve got—you’ve got some support right there. And then too, I—I agree with what you said also, that we’re not quite sure of our impression, and that’s one of the things your illustration of this person hiring you afterwards—but additionally, Diana, that’s the great value of video. In many of the presentations that we make, we can see a video afterwards, and the parts where we thought we paused too long or we looked too confused or we repeated ourselves—I mean, after all, that’s just a part of normal conversation. And you and I, I believe, both accept that let’s leave delivery to FedEx and the post office. Diana Damron: (Laughs) Dr. Bill Lampton: Everybody else who’s in that business, and let’s just have a conversation with our audience. And I know I’ve found it helpful, and I’m sure you do too, let’s say you meet those two or three people ahead of time, or even if you don’t, you can nearly always when you’re giving a presentation, you can look out there and you can see the—those three or four wonderful people who are attentive, they’re receptive, they’re awaiting your every word, and you—you draw from them, don’t you? Diana Damron: You do, and I think one of the important things is to remember you—and you mentioned this before, Bill, don’t worry about being perfect. Don’t make yourself the hero of every story. Don’t talk about how you fixed this, that, and the other. And don’t be afraid to explain how you messed up. I mean, it makes people much more—you much more relatable to other people. Dr. Bill Lampton: Yes, uh—who was it? Some famous person was going to have his picture painted and he told the artist, “Paint me warts and all.” Diana Damron: Mhm. Dr. Bill Lampton: And that’s where we’re at—warts and all. And—and in fact, if—if I come across as everything went as planned down to the last letter, I have—I have flopped because we don’t do that in conversation, we don’t do that in small meetings, why would we do that before a crowd? We’ve got time for a closing question, and that is: how is it you are called the “Human Whisperer”? That—that’s an interesting—interesting tag there. What—what is the “Human Whisperer” all about? Diana Damron: Well, you know Bill, you—your whole focus is on communication. And you know communication is so much more than just words, and or even messaging. When you are helping somebody to communicate, you become something of a therapist. You find out what is holding them back in communicating openly. You—you spend time with them and see what kind of makes them light up. And so I was working with a manufacturing company and I would be in-house for about a week at a time, so I would get to know all of the leaders and all the support staff really, really well. And I learned more and more about what was getting in their way, and those were personal stories. And so you become something of a therapist but it was in the workplace. And I’m not giving therapy advice, but the point is you can use those ex—those stories to begin to connect with people and to begin to help them understand what’s getting in the way of their communication. Dr. Bill Lampton: Very well said, very well said. Diana, hosting you I knew would be a privilege, I knew it would be highly informative, and I was right on both. And we’re—we’re fighting that old clock on the wall, that proverbial clock. So I know there are people who want to get in touch with you, please give us your contact information that you’d like to share. Diana Damron: You bet. My website is dianadamron.com, so you certainly can connect with me over there. I’m also on Facebook and I’m on LinkedIn. And I try to be on Instagram, but I’m not as reputa—or not as consistent there. So Facebook, LinkedIn, and my website, dianadamron.com. Dr. Bill Lampton: Hard to be everywhere, I agree. Well, thank you, and I—I encourage everyone to get in touch with her, get more familiar with her work. And Diana, I hope this is not your only appearance with me on the Biz Communication Show because I and our listeners and viewers will benefit so much. Diana Damron: Well, thank you so much, Bill. This has been just such a treat to be with you. Dr. Bill Lampton: Ah, well it’s—it’s so easy to communicate with a top communication pro, it’s as though we’ve had many coffee chit-chats before, isn’t it? Diana Damron: Yes, yes. Dr. Bill Lampton: And now that you’ve given your information, I’m happy to share mine. As—my YouTube channel is listed under Bill Lampton, PhD. I’ve been recording videos on YouTube since 2007—now don’t look in any of those I recorded then—but since then there have been—I’m several hundred instructional videos about communication. And hey, it revolves around our favorite word: free. So, invite you to go there, and also while you’re there, subscribe to the YouTube channel. And then my website, since my tagline is Biz Communication Guy, my website quite logically is bizcommunicationguy.com. And on my website, you can subscribe to the podcast, which I hope you do. Also, I want to mention the co-producer of this show, Mike Stewart, based in Nashville. Mike and I first met at the Georgia Speakers Association in 1998, and things were just really getting underway technically in the speaking business, and he came up to me and he said, “Do you have a website?” and I said, “Yes.” He said, “Do you have sound on it?” Wow, how provocative was that? So, Mike has been my mentor and strategist and technical advisor ever since. So, I—I encourage you to go there. And then I welcome phone calls to 678-316-4300. And Diana, I—I again thank you for the wonderful ideas and guidelines that you’ve given us. Diana Damron: Thank you for the invitation and thank you for such great questions! Dr. Bill Lampton: Ah, well it’s easy to come up with questions for an expert, and you are that. I would love for you to, and I know our—our viewers and listeners would love for you to, in 30 seconds or a minute, what would be some gems that you would really like to leave with us? Diana Damron: I think number one: remember what we’re trying to do all the time is to build trust. Build trust with even strangers. Number two: work on leaving people in a better place than where you found them. That does not mean you have to be a doormat, but in today’s world, people are going through things, leave them in a better place. Um, think about who you are, and think about how you can communicate to other people. Don’t—don’t think about their civility towards you, think about how are you unleashing civility towards them? Dr. Bill Lampton: Excellent, excellent. Thank you again, Diana Damron, for being our guest. Thanks to those who joined us on video or on the podcast, and we invite you to be with us again next week for another edition of the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy.

Bill Lampton: Hi there. Welcome to the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host Bill Lampton, the biz communication guy, and our eighth year with the Biz Communication Show bringing onto the show business communication experts, and through our conversation, you and I can pick up business communication tips that will be very valuable for us. Today I have a guest, I don’t often know my guest, but I have a guest that I’ve known for a dozen years or so, delighted to bring onto the program today Kristina Rhoades. Kristina Rhoades is a long-time disability consultant and advocate, a writer, motivational speaker, and proud wife and mom. A former Ms. Wheelchair California, she has had a career in the disability industry modeling and marketing for a variety of products that improve accessibility. Kristina has an MS in organizational leadership and a BA in mass communication. She resides in New Mexico with her husband, who’s also her childhood best friend Jacob, and their 14-year-old daughter Cameron. In her spare time, she enjoys making art and jewelry, volunteering in the local community, and supporting live music. So I know you will welcome Kristina Rhoades. Hello Kristina, great to see you. Kristina Rhoades: Hi Bill, it’s so good to be with you again. Bill Lampton: Well I think back Kristina to how we first became acquainted and how I recognized right away as a speech coach and as a professional speaker, what a role model you are for communication. Even today a few minutes ago, you and I were talking about when you were with the radio station WBCX at Brenau University in Gainesville, Georgia, where I live and where you lived at the time, and I happened to put on Twitter that I had always enjoyed participating on radio, and so you texted me back and next thing I knew, we had a very brief interview, you said let’s get going, and for two years, we had the opportunity to work together co-hosting what we called the Business Communication Corner. And so you are not a novice in the communication business. What I believe our viewers and listeners would like to know first is, how did you develop your presentation skills? I think of your vitality, I think of your diction, I think of your nonverbal messages, it all just comes together so vibrantly and you’re one of the most listenable radio colleagues that I’ve ever associated with. So tell us, I don’t think those things just happen, how did you develop those skills? Kristina Rhoades: Oh well thank you first Bill for the kind words, I appreciate it very much. Um, I think it’s a bit of a two-part answer for me. Um, part of it’s my personality, I’ve always been an outgoing person, um, very social, I enjoy people, I enjoy talking to people, but I do often wonder how much of that came from just my life experience as well. So being somebody in a wheelchair, uh, I often am approached by strangers, um, people ask questions about my situation or about my wheelchair or about my disability. Um, I’ve had when I was young, very many medical appointments and um, situations where I am, you know kind of being interviewed and grilled by um, a therapist or a doctor or a nurse or different people trying to fit me for a wheelchair. So I wonder if um, those experiences growing up helped just build my courage and my comfort in talking with strangers and being kind of in the spotlight or you know going in public and having a whole room of people look at me because I’m in a wheelchair might’ve made me a little more comfortable um, you know being having attention on me. So I wonder that. But I also have to give credit to Brenau University, which is where we met and what you were just referring to where WBCX the radio station was. Um, that’s where I received my BA in mass communication and I stayed there as well to do my MS. Um, and I guess coming in with a natural inclination and interest in public speaking and um, communication, Brenau really helped me hone my skills and develop um, really all the pieces that I need to to properly give a presentation and to put put my thoughts together in a manner um, that are that are easily digestible by my audience. Um, so I have to, yeah, I have to give lots of credit to Brenau. Bill Lampton: I think we could say that uh unlike um many of your younger colleagues, you were basically on stage for for your childhood. Now one one point I know we have talked about before, your disability was at a very young age and your mother had a wonderful way of dealing with that. And she made you feel special in ways that other people might not get the kind of encouragement and support that you did. Uh let’s go back to when you were 18 months old and there was a swim meet that you were engaged in, maybe swim competition, tell tell us about that and your mother’s role in that please. Kristina Rhoades: Oh Bill, thanks. Um, not sure if it was a competition or you know I don’t really know what to call it, but I’ll give a little background to the audience. Um, I got a spinal cord injury when I was just 10 months old, um, and so obviously was in the hospital for a period of time recovering from that. Got out of the hospital a little before I was a year and a half. Um, I come from a family that is a big water family, my grandpa at the time lived on a boat in Marina del Rey, California, all my my mom and my aunts and uncles were all all raised on the ocean, swimming and doing water sports. So uh it was it just kind of part of my family culture, it was really important to my mom that I was able to swim. Now remember that this is 1984, this is before the Americans with Disabilities Act, there weren’t as many resources and programs out there for people like me, especially a baby that young um with a disability. So probably for my mom she was unsure of what um my abilities were going to be as I grew up, but she I think wanted to give me as many opportunities and um experience as she could so I could develop whatever skills and abilities I was able to. Um, so first thing she did after I got out of the hospital and we got settled was enroll me in like one of those mom and baby swim classes. Um, and at the time because again this was before the ADA, the facility that she went to, the pool uh wasn’t wheelchair accessible, and at the time I didn’t even have a wheelchair yet, she was just pushing me around in a stroller um because I couldn’t you know couldn’t push a wheelchair at the time. And so she would just carry me carry me down these steps um just like all the other moms on her hip down to the pool and get me in the pool and we would do the class together and um there was a number of other you know moms and babies teaching their their little babies how to swim. And so she never mentioned that I was in a wheelchair, um the teacher was aware, the instructor, but none of the other parents knew um that I was any different from them. So I went through the whole course and um at the at the last day there was a little event where we did um some exercises and some races um and I was awarded the best little swimmer in the class. And so the instructor presented the award to my mom and then shared with the other parents, I don’t know if anybody’s aware but Kristina doesn’t have use of her legs and she’s been doing all of the activities and all of the lessons the entire time just with her arms. And all of the parents were just very surprised and shocked that that was the case. And I just always thought that that was such a cool um example of how my mom raised me and how she put me in situations where I would have to just do the best I could with the abilities I had, and often times that was just as just as good as my peers, just as good as everybody else if I was given that opportunity to try. Um, and so uh to this day I still love to swim and fancy myself a strong swimmer, but um it’s important to remember that often times the limitations that you put on yourself or that society puts on you can really make a big impact, but if you remove those um you can uh achieve way more than you ever ever could otherwise. Bill Lampton: Your mother deserves a lot of crowns for the that that not only that attitude but that support, I I I know I’ve met your mother I believe once or twice and she is a princess and a queen in my judgment and I’m sure in the judgment of those who are watching and listening. Let’s get back Kristina to what you mentioned about going up and all through not only your childhood but also early adulthood and even on into adulthood where you are now, people will notice your disability because of a wheelchair and as you said many people will stop and talk, strangers, let’s examine first of all what are some of the and we we need your advice on it because you’re the participant here Kristina, what are some of the things that you definitely prefer someone not say? What are some of the words you don’t want them to say and then on the other hand what kind of comments do you welcome in starting a conversation? Kristina Rhoades: Great, yeah, those are great questions Bill. Um, first of all there’s a lot of outdated terms um that have been used in the past and that were very common in the past and for past generations that some people with disabilities just find to be offensive because of just the nature of the word and the definition of the word. So if we’re talking about words like crippled or handicapped or lame um, if you use those words to describe anything else, you’re not that’s not a positive um description that you’re using. Bill Lampton: They’re too they’re too limiting aren’t they? Kristina Rhoades: They are. And so if you’re talking about anything, an inanimate object, and you you know call it lame or crippled, that means it doesn’t work or that it’s not good enough. Bill Lampton: It’s not up to standard, yeah. Kristina Rhoades: It is, you know, so if you’re a human being and being described by those same words, you can understand that they can feel offensive or just not necessarily a proper representation of who I am and what I am. So we like to use language that puts the person first. And so we say an ind- individual with a disability, a person with a disability, a person who uses a wheelchair or a wheelchair user, um words like that where you’re you’re recognizing that first and foremost this is just a human being, this is just an individual and one of the parts about them is that they happen to have a disability or they happen to be hearing impaired or um low vision, whatever it may be, they’re a person first. Bill Lampton: That’s that’s a great um that’s a great introduction for in a conversation because as you say, the limitation is a part of an individual, it is not the individual. And one of the surprises so many people have who are not disabled and they they get to know those who have a disability, a person with a disability, I’m sure you have new acquaintances who are absolutely astonished at all that you can do. What what would be some of the what would be some of the surprises that that people get, I know you’ve had a long-time nickname Hotwheels. Kristina Rhoades: Yeah. Bill Lampton: What uh surprises in the way of your activities um really awaken people to who you really are? Kristina Rhoades: Sure, I think two of the biggest surprises for people is first and foremost the independence. People are very surprised to find out that I travel alone, that I’ve had a career, that I’ve you know been to college, when they find out that I carried a child and that I am a mother, that astounds people in a way that they can barely handle sometimes. Um, and then sometimes, you know this Bill, they want to know how and at that point I just ask them to go back to elementary or middle school, you know education and you know learn a little bit more about the birds and the bees. Bill Lampton: You have a nice way of saying none of your business. Kristina Rhoades: Yes, yeah exactly. Um, and so just what I’ve accomplished and what I’ve been able to do people are very surprised by that. I think they have you know a lot of people have an image in their mind of you know one of their grandparents when they had got too too elderly to be able to get around by themselves and they use a wheelchair and at that point they kind of are just sedentary and they sit there and observe and that’s kind of their their image in their head of somebody that’s a wheelchair user, somebody that has a disability if they haven’t had that personal experience. So in again independence and my accomplishments are what people are most surprised by that. Um, I think they have you know a lot of people have an image in their mind of you know one of their grandparents when they had got too too elderly to be able to get around by themselves and they use a wheelchair and at that point they kind of are just sedentary and they sit there and observe and that’s kind of their their image in their head of somebody that’s a wheelchair user, somebody that has a disability if they haven’t had that personal experience. So in again independence and my accomplishments are what people are most surprised by that. Um, and then also people are also um surprised to find out that I’m happy, that I have a positive attitude and um you know I’ve had people say that you don’t have to put on a good front for me like you don’t have to put on a happy face. Oh my goodness, I’m definitely not, this is just how I am and of course I’m not like this all the time and I have my bad days and my moods. Bill Lampton: Nobody is like that all the time you know. Kristina Rhoades: Exactly, but for the most part I am a pretty happy person and I an- I’m an optimist and I like to look on the bright side and think about the positive. So that’s just you know who I am as an individual with or without a disability. Um, so I think those are kind of you know my outlook and my accomplishments are are what people are most surprised with after they get to know me a little bit. Bill Lampton: Well I knew that immediately. As I said I had the wonderful opportunity of co-hosting a radio show with you and your your brightness, your optimism, your upbeat attitude, they helped me a lot of days. I can guarantee you. But you’re right that um anyone in any condition will have because of circumstances often mood swings, but we all can can if you can handle those as well as you do that that’s a great example and role model for us Kristina. One thing that I want to get to next is what’s called the Disability Expo. I know that that’s something that you’re heavily involved with and we’ll be back in just a few seconds to talk about that. Ad: Do you wish you felt confident about giving speeches? Do you want to deal with difficult people constructively? And what about becoming more persuasive in sales? Then keep listening now to Dr. Bill Lampton. He spent 20 years in management so he knows the communication skills you need for success. I urge you to call the Biz Communication Guy today for a no-cost but very very valuable 30-minute discussion about your communication challenges. Call now: 678-316-4300. Again that’s 678-316-4300. Bill Lampton: We’re here with Kristina Rhoades, also known as Hotwheels as we’ve said on the Biz Communication Show. And Kristina before the short break, I mentioned that we want to know what is the Abilities Expo that you’re involved with, what’s its purpose, how is it you’re involved, how long have you been with it, and what are the results for you and others? Kristina Rhoades: Yeah, Bill, Abilities Expo is absolutely fantastic. Um, it’s been going for over 40 years. It’s our nation’s largest expo for the disability community. Um, and so there’s a variety of services, products, resources for all types of disabilities available there, number of vendors, workshops, educational workshops, events like adaptive dancing and assistive dog demonstrations, adaptive sports. All sorts of exciting things. Um, we’ll be kicking off the season this year in Long Beach um at the end of March and we even have a really awesome adaptive fashion show that’s going to be taking place there. Um, and at that show we see just about 10,000 people come through in a weekend with disabilities, family members, caretakers, professionals that serve the disability community. Um, it’s just a really fantastic event, Bill. Bill Lampton: Uh you you bring up a question that I think some of us are wondering you mentioned 10,000 people. What what is there a number of the that you know of the people say in the United States who are rated as people with disability or is there percentage of population? Kristina Rhoades: You know I don’t have a figure for you for general disabilities Bill because that that’s a kind of a tough number to grab, there’s so many types of disabilities, invisible, visible disabilities, all sorts of um types of disability, um and it’s a it’s something that some people aren’t comfortable sharing so to capture that number is a challenge. For example I can talk that people in wheelchairs I have a figure for that because that’s a little bit more you know easier to measure because of product and things like that so the US estimates that there’s about 20 to 25 million people wheelchair users that live in the US um at any given time. Um, and again that number can change because some people don’t use a wheelchair all the time, some people have multiple chairs, you know there’s a lot of a lot of factors that go into that. Um, but the expo again I just yeah I want to just say that I’ve been attending that in one way or another for about 20 years Bill, working with various companies in the industry, giving workshops, um just helping get the word out about the expo because it’s just a really special experience for people that live their daily lives out in the normal world encountering obstacles um you know trying to find that accessibility like we just talked about encountering strangers where they’re asking you questions and you’re just trying to navigate the world. So when you like walk into a disability expo or roll into a disability expo and abilities expo and there’s all of these resources for people with disabilities you just feel kind of home, you feel like you are normal and you’re the norm and everybody at at that show is there for you and to cater to to your access and your needs and um what you need to to live your best life um and so I just it’s a really special experience if you go if you don’t buy anything if you just go and roll through the show it really um just provides a sense of camaraderie and um knowing that you’re not alone. Bill Lampton: I’m sure especially for a person who’s a new occupant of a wheelchair, that is that is an incredibly comforting time that they’re there. Kristina Rhoades: It is. And there’s so much technology now Bill compared to when I was injured um you know back in 1984 and watching the Americans with Disabilities Act come around and we start getting curb cuts and you know elevators and then fast forward to to today and the types of technology um the wheelchairs that can lift up and reach the top shelf and um power assists for manual wheelchairs so you can still be independent but you can push a button and get some power if your shoulders get tired. Remember I used to have to use a dog for that. Bill Lampton: Yes. Kristina Rhoades: I had a companion dog Chevy that when my shoulders got tired I had to have him pull me along so yeah the technology has just come a long way and it really really like you said especially if you’re somebody with a new disability going to one of these shows just really opens up your world and gives you the the tools and the resources to live as independently as possible. Bill Lampton: You definitely have a message of motivation, inspiration, building self-confidence, overcoming obstacles, what kind of speaking have you done to groups on those or similar topics? Kristina Rhoades: Yeah, much of what you just mentioned Bill I talk to um a variety of audiences so folks that work in the disability community but may not necessarily have a disability themselves so people that work at um dealerships for accessible vehicles and people that may be therapists and other sorts of professionals in the disability community. I’ll give um presentations about disability etiquette and talk about some of the things that we’re talking about here today Bill about um proper language and just communication and etiquette when you’re when you’re interacting with a person with a disability, how to shake hands, how to um properly greet somebody so you can kind of reduce the awkwardness that can come up sometimes um in new situations. Um and then I’ve also spoke to groups with disabilities and talked about um leadership and positive thinking and um you know self-worth and self-development and how how important it is to um have a positive attitude and set personal goals and um you know so it really depends on who I’m speaking to um and you know what what that particular audience needs. Bill Lampton: You and I are both on TikTok, I see you there and I’ve noticed uh quite frequently other wheelchair occupants who will talk about how to talk with someone as we talked about earlier in our conversation. For example they they don’t want you to talk baby talk, they don’t want you to whisper, um they don’t want you to indicate in any way that that they are approaching you or thinking about you differently than they would someone else, and how would you expand on that? Anything I’ve missed there? Kristina Rhoades: No, that’s a fantastic point Bill, and I tell people really to to lead with empathy, like to think about how you would want to be treated and if somebody approached you in a store and asked you a personal question about a medical procedure you’ve had, how how that would feel. And so just to you know any anytime you’re going to approach somebody maybe and you’re wondering if you should in a wheelchair or not in a wheelchair, with a disability or without, think about if if somebody else was to ask you a question like that if you would be comfortable answering that and especially in the situation you know it may be different if you guys have gotten to know each other a little bit and you’re in a social situation and you’re having more of a personal talk. Different topics can come up, but if it’s a stranger and you walk up to me in the grocery store and I’ve never met you and you want to dive right into my disability it can be a little awkward. Um and then I just think it’s also important to to just again and this goes back to empathy and just kind of the golden rule treating others how you would want to be treated, but um thinking about how people value independence. And so if you’re an adult and you’re out in the world and somebody comes up and asks, you know asks the date that you’re with at the restaurant what you would like to eat for lunch, how would you feel as an adult with you know you would say excuse me um I’m here and you can speak directly to me. So a person with a disability feels the exact same way they want their personal autonomy, they want to have respect, they want to feel independent and you know with a person with a physical disability often they’ve had to work even harder to gain that independence so they cherish it even more maybe than the next person. Bill Lampton: What a conversation we’ve had, we have picked up some wonderful pointers about the the disability world which I would call you the queen of. How how to relate, how to assist, how to inspire at the same time we’re getting so much inspiration from you Kristina. I know as we unfortunately have that old clock on the wall as they said on television many times it’s moved along, so I have time certainly to ask you for your contact information because I know that there are those who would like to get in touch with you. Um share with us what you’d like to on that please. Kristina Rhoades: Yeah thanks Bill, I’ve had a great great time speaking with you today and catching up. Um people can reach out to me via email and that’s going to be KristinaTheNumber4Abilities, and that’s Kristina with a K, number 4 abilities @ gmail . com. Um or you can reach out to me on Instagram and there’s a link there that you can find my TikTok and my other social media um and that’s Kristina again with a K underscore and my last name is Rhoades, it’s there on the bottom but it’s r-h-o-a-d-e-s there on Instagram. Bill Lampton: Thank you very much, thank you. And I encourage, I doubt that I have to encourage, I think people who have heard Kristina and seen her today with that vibrant attitude and glowing smile which is just a part of her everyday, I I have a feeling you will definitely want to get in touch with her and now that she’s shared her contact information I’ll share mine. My YouTube channel since my moniker is the biz communication guy, my YouTube channel is Bill Lampton PhD, and while you’re on my YouTube channel, by the way I started posting instructional videos there in 2007 so there are a lot of them. And the good news is they’re free. And for the last eight years they’ve included marvelous guests on the Biz Communication Show so while you’re on my YouTube channel, please consider subscribing. And then my website, https://www.google.com/search?q=thebizcommunicationguy.com we have it there, https://www.google.com/search?q=thebizcommunicationguy.com, while you’re on my website you can subscribe to the podcast. I would very much welcome phone calls for an initial no-cost discussion of your communication challenges and problems and we’ll talk about potential solutions and whether I’m the person to work with you or someone else is. That phone number is 678-316-4300. I also want to give credit to the co-producer of this show, Mike Stewart based in Nashville, used to be here with me in Gainesville, Georgia. Mike I met in get this, 1997 when I first became an entrepreneur and he has been my marketing and technology guy all along. He absolutely he doesn’t keep up, he’s ahead of everything and and he’s a great guy. So his website localinternetpresence.com, I definitely encourage you to check with him. Kristina as we are closing the show, I want to ask you we’ve discussed some wonderful themes about disability. What would you like to leave with our audience? What what are some maybe some kernels, some thoughts that you’d like to leave with us? Kristina Rhoades: Well thanks again Bill for the conversation. I really enjoyed it. Um I said this before but I’ll just say it again to lead with empathy and just to consider how you would want to be treated, remember that golden rule, um and just be kind because we’re all just humans and we’re doing the best we can to get through this life. We don’t know the struggles that each of us are silently dealing with, um so if we can remember that then um things will go a lot smoother and um thanks again Bill for the um information that you provide I love watching all of your videos and appreciate um all the knowledge that you impart to the world. So I appreciate the the chance to be here with you today. Bill Lampton: You can just call me Clint Eastwood because you made my day. And to think that you, highly talented top professional communicator you, are watching my videos, that um that’s wonderful. Thank you. Thanks to those of you who joined us today on the Biz Communication Show. We invite you to be with us again for next week for another vital conversation. It’s planned, it’s not canned, it’s planned, it is a lively conversation about communication and you and I will both get tips and strategies that will be beneficial for us. Thanks again to Kristina Rhoades and to thanks to all of you who joined us in the show today.

Bill Lampton: Hi there, welcome to the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz communication guy. We’re in the eighth season of the Biz Communication Show and our purpose and our service to you is to bring you communication strategies and tips that will boost your biz. And I don’t do this solo. I do it with the conversation with a highly qualified guest who will give us those tips and strategies that will benefit us and our clients. Very happy today to welcome from Minnesota, happy to welcome Gloria Russell. She’s the founder of Russell Resources LLC and a strategic marketing copywriter who helps service-based business owners and career professionals turn complex expertise into clear, confident messaging that attracts aligned opportunities across websites, LinkedIn, blogs, posts, and newsletters. Wow, that’s quite comprehensive. With 12 years in business after a demanding corporate career, Gloria brings clarity, strategy, and encouragement to every project guided by integrity and a commitment to apply her gifts with excellence. Gloria’s clients walk away with words that sound like them, spotlight the outcomes they deliver, and build credibility without hype, fluff, or feeling salesy. As I mentioned, she’s based in Minnesota and can be found at www.writer.mn. So I know that you will join me in welcoming Gloria Russell. Hi, Gloria. Gloria Russell: Hello, Dr. Bill. Thank you for the invitation. It’s delightful to be here with you. Bill Lampton: Well, I hope this will be the first of frequent times because you have so much to offer as I mentioned in the introduction and I’ve known your work firsthand and know the value of it. I am a very frequent, several times a day user of LinkedIn and as many business professionals, I want to know if I’m doing the right thing or the wrong thing because if we’re on there all day long but we’re off target with what we’re trying, we’re not gaining ground, we’re losing ground. So here’s what I’d like to start with. Would you please identify and discuss two or three of what you see in your work as some of the most common mistakes we make? And I know they’re well-intentioned mistakes, but they still can be harmful. Give us two or three that come to your mind and then what should we be doing instead of each one of those two or three mistakes? Gloria Russell: Absolutely. Thank you for that. Definitely, there are mistakes. We all make mistakes, but I tend to think of it more as most of the time it’s just that we’re unaware. So the first thing that I see is that people are treating LinkedIn like an online resume. And so a resume is something in its own right. LinkedIn definitely works well with the resume because there are a lot of things you can do on LinkedIn that you can’t do on your resume. The two go hand in hand. But on LinkedIn, rather than talking about here’s what I’ve done, we want to talk more about here’s how I help, here’s the outcomes that my clients achieve. And so staying within your topics of your business, we want to use LinkedIn more as a decision tool than a resume. So that’s one thing. The next, and oh, I’ve been talking about this a lot lately, Dr. Bill. I see people just not keeping up with their profiles. We all get busy and that a lot of times is at the bottom of the list. But what I find, we all grow professionally, personally, ourselves and in our businesses, but our LinkedIn does not always grow with us. And so I’ve been noticing a lot lately that people who really have been growing over the last say five years, they have so much to offer, but their LinkedIn still sounds like five years ago or maybe seven years ago. And so that’s not telling the true story and they’re missing a lot of opportunities. And so I have been actually posting about that quite a bit lately because I really feel that it’s something to be aware of and we can update that and make sure that we are talking about who we are today. I think the other mistake is more with the content. And so this can be the content on your profile, in your posts, even on your website. But when we’re posting, sometimes it’s either too technical, too salesy, or even too scattered. And what I mean by that is if it’s too technical, sometimes we get into a lot of verbiage that’s just a lot of jargon or words that or phrases that people don’t really understand yet. So we need to write in words and language that people will understand quickly. And then too salesy, we all know what that’s like and if you do the sales pitch too soon or too often, that’s really not a good thing either. So basically, if you’re doing the sales pitch too soon, probably what you’re really getting is a mental eye roll and that’s not good, that’s not a good place to be. And then what I mean by scattered, if we’re having conversations and we’re posting about unrelated topics, that’s not really serving us well either and it confuses the reader, they’re not sure what you’re about. So we want to basically stay in that lane, stay true to our topics. And LinkedIn doesn’t like it either, with especially with the new algorithm, they really want us to stay in our lane and talk about that what the particular role is that we are taking on within our industry. Bill Lampton: All of those are very valuable points. One that I would certainly like to follow up on and give my observation on it, and that is your very pertinent point about being too salesy because people are not going to be so impressed, it seems to me by my own experience by what our credentials are, our clients. I mean this is a qualifier, but what they are going to be most impressed about on LinkedIn is how does it relate to what I need, how does it relate, how did this person’s services, how will they assist me? I’m not here just to admire somebody, I came here to really find who can can help me. And then I also want to reflect on what you said about unrelated topics. Over the last, I’ve been on LinkedIn, I’m sure maybe a dozen or more years, and over the last couple of years, I’m finding that there are many topics that are introduced there that have practically nothing to do with business or professional life and some people are thinking this is Facebook number two. And and that is not on point, as you say. I like what you said as well about this is not just a resume because a resume mostly centers on us, but LinkedIn should be pointed in the other direction. Now talking about salesy brings this up. We certainly have to present ideas and content, maybe videos, maybe podcast, that reflect our qualifications. But when you’re advising clients, Gloria, how do you help them draw the line between competence and cockiness because yes, we need to show the competence but what are some of the guidelines you would give us not to come across as as arrogant? Gloria Russell: You know, Dr. Bill, I can’t tell you how many times I run into this with my clients, especially my clients from the Midwest, because we are taught from a very early age not to brag about ourselves. And they are worried about doing that when they’re online or meeting with people and I have to let them know that that’s not what this is about. We are, we have a service to provide and we don’t want to be invisible so we need to talk about it in some way, but it can be in a very respectful way. I look at it this way and and it’s a little bit like what you were talking about earlier. Arrogance keeps the spotlight on me, like I’m the greatest, I’m the best, how impressive am I, how impressive am I. But that is, that does not impress anybody. And confidence on the other hand, is when you shine the spotlight on the other person or on the client, because we want to know what they are about, we want to ask the right questions, we want to understand their situation, and let them know how we help, maybe something they need, it may not be, but we’re that outcome really isn’t part of the equation there, it’s just letting them know what we do. So when we present confidently, it’s not braggadocious. And really arrogance I feel like is trying to win the room often with rather pushy tactics, whereas confidence is trying to serve the room respectfully. There’s a big difference. Bill Lampton: That’s a good distinction. Another point that I’m sure many of us wonder about and I’ve heard, I’ve heard different bits of advice on this. First of all, what’s the what would you say is the recommended frequency of our appearance? I on LinkedIn in the way of content or even comments. I see some people who either they’re working all night to to get their copy ready or they’re they’re just prolific during the day and they’re they’re on there almost ad nauseam. And then on the other hand, the other extreme would be somebody who publishes or comments two or three times a week. What what guidelines would you give us about the frequency? Gloria Russell: Well, we hear for certain platforms like Facebook or or others that you should be posting constantly eight times a day. To me, that’s just exhausting and maybe it works for some people that way, but when we’re talking about LinkedIn, that’s not necessary. And anyway, I don’t think any of this should be stressful for a person. I typically will encourage my clients when they’re starting, to start with something that’s reasonable and sustainable. So that might be posting once a week, and LinkedIn is very happy to have you post once a week as long as it’s consistent and you’re sharing something relevant and something that is useful for your audience. You could post once a week, you could post three times a week or five times a week, LinkedIn is good with all of that. And the other part of it is, you also want to be commenting. And that’s kind of the giving part and that I I feel like there really isn’t an equal balance there. I feel like you almost want to be posted, post once, three times, five times a week, but commenting pretty much every day, five times a week. And that has to be a meaningful comment though, because you have to be giving value. In other words, some people may come to your post and and their comment is “great post” or it might be “thanks for sharing,” but that’s all there is, it’s really not helpful. And LinkedIn with their algorithm doesn’t think it’s helpful either. So if we’re going to comment, we want to do it properly and really share a meaningful comment that would probably be one or two sentences. Bill Lampton: I have become more and more involved in commenting because you are supporting the work of others, you are aligning with it, and it’s very likely that some percentage of those people will see value in your work and eventually may not only comment but could even repost. Gloria, we’re going to come back in just a minute and we’re going to talk about something that I know you have advice about and that is what about video content for LinkedIn? We’ll be back in just a few seconds. Advertisement: Do you wish you felt confident about giving speeches? Do you want to deal with difficult people constructively? And what about becoming more persuasive in sales? Then keep listening now to Dr. Bill Lampton. He spent 20 years in management so he knows the communication skills you need for success. I urge you to call the Biz communication guy today for a no-cost, but very very valuable 30-minute discussion about your communication challenges. Call now 678-316-4300. Again, that’s 678-316-4300. Bill Lampton: Gloria as I mentioned, we we’re in the age of video. I I very well remember when the internet first came along and I I became active somewhere around 1997 or 1998. And at that time it was rather predominantly print and then along came audio. And now we have video available and as I’ve said often on the Biz Communication Show, we have easy access to produce video. 20 years ago we for a five-minute video we may have to hire a company to come in with their productive equipment, production equipment, and for $5,000 or more get a five-minute clip. But now our phones or iPads or whatever we can produce meaningful videos even without the assistance of anybody else. So because we have that access, what part should video play in our LinkedIn not only our profile but in our posting as well? Gloria Russell: Yes, and here we are on video. Video does build influence and I think it’s because it can it can build trust faster. People can connect with your voice and your presence, which is wonderful, you know, rather than just your words. It can make you more memorable and perhaps more referable. So I think it’s really compounds across your your content. And what I hear from people is that sometimes they are and I know that you’ve heard this Dr. Bill because this is where you’re at, but people will say to me I I don’t want to be on camera, I don’t like how I look, I don’t want to be on video, I don’t like the sound of my voice. And so that’s fine if they don’t want to do it, however, it can serve them well if they can get over it and I was kind of like that too where I basically had to say but truly it’s really not about me so much as sending a message to our audience or our clients. So if I would challenge people to reach out to you if they’re having a trouble a little bit of trouble with that or maybe that’s a barrier for them. But I I feel like when we’re posting on LinkedIn, we have to remember that people learn in different ways and so it’s really to our advantage to have a variety of content and that would be some people like they’re they are very visual people, some people like to read, some people like long form, some like a quick short read, many different varieties of ways that you can post even to have a poll on LinkedIn. So I think it really is worthwhile to have a variety and video can definitely play a part in that. Bill Lampton: I agree with you that many people are are reluctant to get into that and yet I remember many years ago when I first went into the communication business full-time and I was I was teaching the speech courses at the University of Georgia and there were so many students, of course that required course was one many students would have dodged if they could have, they didn’t want to be in front of a group. Yet we even back then quite a number of years ago we were videoing the students as they gave their eight to ten minute speech or so and almost without exception when the video went into playback and we were going to critique it they were quite surprised that they didn’t look as nervous as as they thought they would, that they seemed a bit more composed and just a few times doing that will assure a person. And one of the things I tell my students and I’m coaching students and I mentioned this on here often is I’ll give them a sheet of instructions Gloria and on there I’ll put “don’t try to be perfect” and I’ll misspell the word “perfect” and they say you didn’t spell that right and I say no but you got the meaning of it didn’t you, so that gets the point across. And video as you’re saying gives us a variety. I think now if we were on LinkedIn and were to use only print and no sound and no no no facial contact we would be way behind a lot of people. Switching topics you in our introduction we talked about how you help your clients bring clarity. Tell us how does that work? Gloria Russell: Well, I think the whole the clarity is the key. So the whole idea is to look at your content and see if it is being received the way it is intended. And typically we will have a shift from a lot of times the content will be just describing the tasks and the activities that you do. And what we want to do is to focus on describing the outcomes, because that’s what people really care about, at least at first. What’s it going to be for me, what does that mean for me? So that is a huge shift that we have to take care of to begin with. And part of that is usually there’s very broad language and so we bring that together and instead of using broad language we create more client-focused language, that ideal client language, even using words that they would use, language that they would understand and relate to. And that’s where I think the clarity and the trust starts to show up. They see that we understand them. And the other thing is replacing some of those vague claims that we can hear and read across the content. We want to instead show some proof, which can be details, can be examples, can be recommendations. This is really a tremendous thing about LinkedIn, you can have recommendations there where people, other people are talking about you and letting the audience know how you help them or how you work, how easy is it to work with you, what is the outcome that they received. Those things are, I mean that’s just golden. And so when I work with my clients, basically I teach them some of the strategies that are important so that they can really make the most of that and do it consistently to try to get those recommendations. I think that makes a world of difference. Bill Lampton: And we don’t just wait for recommendations. There are plenty of people who might support us on LinkedIn with a testimonial if we ask them. If you just assume people and if you ask people who you’ve dealt with professionally and it was successful, they’re delighted to be on there and in fact, I look at it this way that there’s a double advantage that’s one more place, a prominent place that when you make a referral, it’s another prominent place that your name appears and people might then check you out. One final question we have time for, Gloria, and that is you work not only not only with LinkedIn but with other platforms as well. When you’re talking to a client and you deal with LinkedIn and they want to look at other places where they can market their skills, market their services, market their products, what would be a couple of other places that you would recommend that they they align with? Gloria Russell: Well, I would say first of all that there really is no right platform for everyone. So and there’s so many that yes, you do need to choose. If I could back up one step, I would say that the your kind of your home base would be your website and your email list because those are what I consider owned assets and you have control over your message and it’s not like someone’s going to pull the rug out from under you and all of a sudden your your site is gone. So I would really work on that and then if if you have a business like mine B2B, business to business, LinkedIn is definitely a place to be. And I think that’s that’s the rule, you would want to be where your clients are. So if your clients are on LinkedIn that is certainly the first place that you would want to be making some progress there. And then you also would like to look at places where your clients may be searching, that could be Google business profiles, it could be YouTube, and depending on your again your business and who your clients are could be Instagram. So you want to look at how it would be serving and where you would build that trust. And for me, it would it would mainly be LinkedIn and a little bit of Instagram for you, you you do very well on YouTube and that’s searchable that’s a wonderful platform and the video. So I think that’s really good. I think the thing that overwhelms people is that there are so many platforms and I just like to say you don’t have to be everywhere all the time and you don’t have to be into everything. Start with one and get very comfortable and and find a rhythm that you can that’s sustainable and that you can keep up. Once that happens, then you can decide to either increase your activity on that platform and or find another platform. But really, I feel like if people have two platforms that’s that’s plenty, some definitely will have more, but we I think we make it harder than it needs to be sometimes. Bill Lampton: Yes, if we try to do six or seven platforms daily, that’s all we’re going to do and we will we will be so diluted and scattered that we won’t consistently build an audience. Gloria this has been fascinating and I I know all of us have learned plenty from your expertise today, we’re very grateful. So there are those I’m sure who would like to get in touch with you, give us your contact information that you’d like to share, please. Gloria Russell: Well, I think the easiest way to find me would be on LinkedIn and I’m easy to find there, Gloria Russell, Russell Resources. I think it’s I think it says marketing content writer or marketing content creator, it’s very easy to recognize me and if people want to reach out there and ask for a connection they could just mention that they saw me here with you Dr. Bill and I’m happy to accept their connection and have a conversation. Bill Lampton: Thank you so much and I’m happy to share my contact information after I encourage all of our viewers and listeners to follow up and get in touch with Gloria. My YouTube channel is Bill Lampton PhD, you’ll find this video there. I’ve been producing videos on YouTube since 2007, I encourage you to not look at the earlier ones, but over the last few years as I mentioned at the outset the Biz Communication Show has gone for we’re in our eighth year now spotlighting experts that all of us can learn from. And while you’re there be sure to subscribe to my YouTube channel. My website, since my tagline is Biz Communication Guy, quite logically my website is bizcommunicationguy.com and when you go there you can subscribe there to the podcast. I will welcome phone conversations at no initial financial commitment to just talk about your communication challenges and problems and see if I can help you with them or if there’s someone else who can that I know is competent. I need to mention too the co-producer of this program, Mike Stewart. Mike is a longtime marketing and technical expert and you can contact him at localinternetpresence.com. Gloria again with all the kernels of information that you’ve given us, how would you pull together in 30 seconds or a minute what you’d like to leave as maybe nuggets of information that we need right now? Gloria Russell: Well thank you for that. I think really the the theme of the whole thing was clarity and clarity really is the key and trust is built in small steps. So we just have to remember that they don’t have to do everything and we don’t have to do everything at once. I have found that the most influential people are not always the loudest or the the most self-promoting but they are the clearest and they sincerely want to serve their audience. And so we can do that just by showing up consistently consistently with some pearls of wisdom and encouragement and that’s just what you do on your podcast Dr. Bill. Bill Lampton: You remind me of one of the outstanding speakers in the National Speakers Association, he’s spoken in more than 50 countries now, Terry Brock based in Orlando Florida and Terry did a short video one time where he said too many people suffer from “I disease” and that’s not EYE, that’s I. So as we’re promoting ourselves on any platform as you said make it client-centered. Thanks so much to Gloria Russell for sharing with us those valuable tips and strategies today. Thanks to those of you who joined us on the Biz Communication Show and we encourage you to be with us again next week for a powerful guest who can help all of us with their tips and strategies.

Bill Lampton: Hi there, welcome to the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz communication guy, once again bringing you communication tips and strategies that will boost your business. And as is the case always with the Biz Communication Show, this is not a solo act. I bring you those highly useful tips and strategies through conversations with a highly qualified guest. And today we do have a highly qualified guest coming to us from the greater Atlanta, Georgia, area. In fact, buckle up, friends, because today’s guest is a force to be reckoned with. Deb Krier is an entrepreneur, outspoken cancer advocate, three-time cancer survivor, and a certified integrated cancer coach who brings equal parts strategy, humor, and sass—how about that?—to the cancer conversation. She’s the founder of tryingnottodie.live because, let’s face it, “suddenly” has never been her thing. She now serves as a strategic advisor to business owners and executives facing cancer, helping them keep their businesses, their sanity, and their spark intact. With decades in marketing and PR under her belt, Deb knows how to command a room, and she’s here to remind us that cancer doesn’t get the final word—she does. Hello, Deb! Deb Krier: Hello, sir! I am so honored to be a guest on your podcast. We’re going to have such a fun conversation. Bill Lampton: Yes, we are going to, and you’ve been referred to me by other podcasters who have discovered how well you inform and inspire, and I know that will be the case today. Deb, one of the points I think that’s so important to begin with is when someone gets a diagnosis of cancer, there’s a variety of reactions that they can have. And of course, we will talk some about mindset, and that’s what we’re really talking about now because that’s a central part of our reaction and even our recovery. When you first got the diagnosis of cancer, what were the thoughts that went through your mind? Deb Krier: I was annoyed. I really was. It was like, “Excuse me?” And I literally told my doctor, “I’m sorry, I don’t have time for this.” And she looked at me like, “Well, darling, you’re going to have to make time.” But the fear, the anger—all of that didn’t come until a little bit later. But yeah, I was just annoyed. It was like, “Excuse me, you must have the wrong person.” Bill Lampton: “You’re interrupting my life.” Deb Krier: I know, I know. How rude! Bill Lampton: And is the question often among cancer patients, “Why me?” Deb Krier: Oh, yeah. You know, and I think we all feel that. There’s a little bit of guilt: “Did I do something to bring this on?” And of course, we didn’t. We all know people who smoke two packs a day and don’t get lung cancer, right? And there’s all of those things. Sure, there are things that we can do to make ourselves healthier just in general, but we certainly never want to do anything that has caused us to have cancer. And so I think there’s that, but yeah, there is the “Why me?”, even though the stats show that it’s a good portion of us. But yeah, it’s the “I’m sorry, go pick on somebody else” type of thing. Bill Lampton: As I mentioned to you when we got acquainted, I empathize with you because I’ve come through successfully two types of cancer: prostate cancer and colon cancer. And I remember so well waking up from a colonoscopy and the doctor said to me, “You have a cancerous polyp that we’re going to have to remove,” and it was eventually soon, really, remove twelve inches of my colon intestine. And you do have a range of thoughts, and of course, anger comes into that as well. Your life was going along quite smoothly—why does this happen to you? Which leads me next to what came of this. There are many people who could get cured, fortunately, and that’s it. But it really led to a new lifelong mission for you. Describe that mission to us, please. Deb Krier: Well, way back when I was just a wee little person, I worked for an oncologist and I worked for the American Cancer Society. And so I tell people, “I know just enough about this to be dangerous,” right? But I have a fabulous business coach, her name is Kathleen Caldwell, and it was her idea that I do this, and I went into it kicking and screaming. When she would say, “You need to help people,” I would say, “Oh, but I don’t want to be Cancer Girl. Ugh.” And I really did just want to get back to business as usual. But I realized I was helping people. I would be in the doctor’s office and they would have me talk to students or they would have me talk to new patients. I’m actually still in active treatment even after 10 years. I go in every 21 days and I go in, I’m the person going to, “You need some water? Do you need some crackers?” I’m bebopping around the infusion room. And it’s just kind of something that I have always done. But I really did realize that I could and should use what had happened to me to help others on this journey. And so that was when I decided to start tryingnottodie.live because we all get so caught up in trying not to die, whether it’s with cancer, whether it’s just with life in general or something else, that we forget that we have to live. And so that’s really the premise behind it: how are we going to live through this process? Bill Lampton: Tell us about your “Trying Not to Die… Live!”—what is that? Deb Krier: Well, the name came from when I was initially undergoing treatment. I’m special, and so I had to develop every complication, every serious life-threatening thing, all sorts of things that you could get. And at one point, I was in the hospital for over seven weeks. And my mother—I am an only child, my mother has since passed, but I am an only child—she of course came because I was in very critical condition. And one of the times when my fabulous medical team came and went, I got the disapproving mother look, you know, the “Hmph.” And I went, “What?” And she said, “You did not say thank you.” And I said, “Oh, for heaven’s sakes, Mom, I’m trying not to die here!” And so that kind of just stuck in my head that there was that. But then I really did think we need to live. Maybe it’s five hours, maybe it’s 50 years—whatever it is, how are we going to live during that time? Whether we’re on a cancer journey or not. Are we going to say, “I’m going to put stuff off. I’ll do it at some point. I’ll take that vacation whenever.” No, we need to live now. Bill Lampton: I was reviewing this morning a story that I imagine you’re familiar with. An American journalist and author, Norman Cousins, he was an editor. Quite a few decades ago, he was diagnosed with severe rare arthritic disease. And instead of just staying absolutely serious about it, he started watching television at the time—the Marx Brothers television, Jack Benny and Bob Hope—because he said laughter was a good way to handle what otherwise could be a totally grievous situation. Deb Krier: Right. Humor really is one of the things—I mean, we hear that laughter is good medicine. It’s more than good medicine; it’s great medicine. And there are very real benefits from laughing: it, for some reason, lowers your blood pressure—right? You’d think it would raise your blood pressure, but it lowers your blood pressure. There are certain chemicals in your body that are activated when you laugh, and those help you heal. And it’s one of those things where we sometimes develop kind of a weird sense of humor about some of this, but we do have to laugh. And the funny thing is, even if you fake laugh—”Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,” right?—your brain doesn’t know that you’re faking it. And so the healing benefits are still released. And so they do things like laughter yoga and things like that. But yeah, watch I Love Lucy, watch—my favorite is Big Bang Theory, right?—some things like that. But how can you laugh? And one of the things that I always try to do is to make my care team laugh because they have really hard jobs. Really, really hard jobs. And so can I give them a giggle or a chortle for the day? Bill Lampton: Malcolm Gladwell is one of my favorite authors. I’ve got three of his books on my shelf. And you just reminded me of an experiment he reported by some behavioral scientists. And the experiment was this: they prompted people who were working with them to smile, even though they really had nothing to particularly smile about. But he said, “Let’s find out what happens when you consistently smile.” And what happened was their mood changed. And he said the outcome of that was that we always think that a smile or laughter comes from our mood, but he said very perceptively that if we laugh or if we smile, that can elevate our own mindset, as we’re talking about. Deb Krier: Right. And let’s be honest, this is not fun. You know, it’s—there’s just times where I just want to crawl back under the covers and not come back out for several days or weeks. And but how can we have fun with it? And I tell people, you know, we’re not saying that it’s huge. Sometimes the micro-gratitudes are enough. You know, just find something. Somebody the other day asked me, “What was I grateful for for 2025?” Right? It’s the end of the year as we’re doing this. And I said, “The fact that I’m still alive.” And they knew my story, and they said, “Well, we’d hope that would be what you would say.” But yeah, just something little. You know, I have a new puppy—oh my gosh, he is the cutest thing in the world, and getting a little puppy kiss from him, you know, just whatever that what is happening. And and now here’s the thing: you can when you smile, you kind of it’s you make other people smile too. Bill Lampton: Yes, and that’s true. And one thing I found when I was a patient diagnosed with cancer and I was in the hospital a couple of days, one of the first things I did with my caregivers—the nurses and the doctors—was bring levity into the situation. I would crack some bit of humor when I met them or when they came by, and it changed the atmosphere. Deb Krier: Right. You know, and sometimes it like I said, it could be a little inappropriate humor, especially you know when we’re joking about this. But as if we’re joking about ourselves, it’s okay. You know, and I was talking with a stand-up comedian who has cancer, and she said she would never, ever say something about somebody else. It’s like calling you know the “the kid the fat kid.” No, that’s just not right. But if you’re joking about yourself, then then it’s okay. And you know, anything to to lighten—even when you’re getting bad news, you know, you can still find something in there that might be a little bit of something to laugh about—you know, the “well, it could be worse” type of thing. Bill Lampton: Deb, in just a minute we’re going to come back after a short break, and when we do, I want to talk with you and get your reaction to the fact that there are there are a large number of patients who might think, “Well, I’m just going to go it alone. I’m a—I’ve always been a survivor of every difficulty I’ve had, and I’m going to go it alone.” We’ll get your reaction to that in a few seconds. Commercial: Do you wish you felt confident about giving speeches? Do you want to deal with difficult people constructively? And what about becoming more persuasive in sales? Then keep listening now to Dr. Bill Lampton. He spent 20 years in management, so he knows the communication skills you need for success. I urge you to call the Biz communication guy today for a no-cost but very valuable 30-minute discussion about your communication challenges. Call now: 678-316-4300. Again, that’s 678-316-4300. Bill Lampton: We’re back here with Deb Krier on the Biz Communication Show. She is not only a three-time cancer survivor, she’s an advocate for becoming a widely known caregiver for those who are currently going through the problem. Now, Deb, many of us, of course, for a variety of reasons when we contract cancer, we say, “Well, I’m just going to go this alone, and I’m not going to talk with the neighbors, I’m going to shut myself up until I whip this thing.” It’s sort of a reaction, and and I’m—I’d love your comment on this: is there even a feeling of shame or guilt that causes us to isolate ourselves? What’s the what’s the danger, the repercussions of isolating ourselves? And what then do you do to help people move beyond that? Deb Krier: Well, you’re so right, Dr. Bill. I think so many people you know I don’t know if it is shame or if it is fear—”Ooh, they might judge me. Did I bring this on myself?”—you know, like we were saying earlier. I think there’s also the thing, “We just don’t want to bother people. I don’t want to be a bother.” And so we don’t tell about it. And of course what we need to do is we we do need to talk about it, appropriately, right? Now, I’ve been very, very open with what I’ve been going through, but I’ve also done that on purpose because I am using it to educate people, to help people, some things like that. But you know, it’s it’s okay to to share what you want with who you want. But I really think we shouldn’t go it alone. I did a Facebook post one time about you know something along these lines, and somebody who I didn’t even know, because my posts are are public, responded and said, “I’ve never felt so alone in my life.” And it broke your heart. But the cool thing was other people who did not know this man responded and said, “What can we do to help? Please reach out to us.” And you know, and I think that’s the thing is we are social animals. So when something happens to us—you know, it’s it’s funny, if it’s good, we want to share it with the world, right? But if it’s bad, we kind of you know do the little turtle thing or and and we don’t want to share. But it is very important for us to build that community. I say it’s a tribe. I also tell people I’m a warrior, and I know not everybody likes that term, but you know it’s me. I am in the fight for my life, quite literally. And so I am a warrior. I am battling this. And so I build my tribe around me, and my tribe includes my medical team, family, friends, whoever. And people have come and gone in that 10-year time span, right? But it’s it’s been something where initially I didn’t really want to tell people. And I didn’t want people visiting me in the hospital, and I looked really bad—really, really bad. But I didn’t want people to to come and see me like that. And then I realized—I mean, clearly I am a very social person. And isolating myself was damaging my mental health. I needed people to come and talk to me about what was going on in the world. I needed them to at one point I needed them to come take me for walks, to get out and get fresh air, you know, all of these things. Sometimes I just needed somebody to run an errand or drive me to to an appointment. You know, and and as much as we want to kind of isolate ourselves, it can be very damaging to ourselves. But again, you need to do it as on the level that you feel appropriate for you. Some people like me are very open, other people are much more private. Bill Lampton: As I remember, you you have—you talked about tribes—you have some ways of getting cancer patients together. How do you do that? Deb Krier: Well, we do have a Facebook group, and I’m you know it’s you can find it on our website, which is tryingnottodie.live, and you can find the Facebook group there. It’s you know we we keep it lighthearted. Every Monday I post jokes, I mean, all sorts of things. But it is a place for support. And so you know we’ve we’ve had one day we had someone who posted, “Got my scan results today, everything is good.” So everybody in the group, “Yay!”, right? Then the next day somebody posted and said, “I lost my husband overnight.” And so then of course the group said, “We’re very sorry. What can we do?” And you know, and so it is a place where we can share. And you know, it’s kind of interesting, it goes along with what we were just talking about: sometimes it is easier to share with someone who you don’t really know. You know, they’re just that Facebook person. But it is a a place for us to be able to share what’s going on in our lives. Earlier today I posted and shared that I had my annual PET scan, right? You know, and and those are just fear-inducing, right? You you know there’s nothing going on, your body you know everybody’s cool with that, but until you get those results and until you read those results, you’re thinking, “Ugh, what if?” And got my results this morning, everything is absolutely fabulous, and so I posted that. But I also know if I had said there’s a problem, I would have had everybody rallying behind me. Bill Lampton: One of the things that I’ve run across over the years when somebody is in trouble: the neighbors might think, “Well, I would go see them, I would go talk to them, but I really wouldn’t know what to say.” And reply to that, because the words really don’t matter, do they? Deb Krier: Right. And but that is the one of the biggest things that people ask me is, “I don’t know what to say. I don’t know what to do.” And it’s funny because my neighbors—oh my gosh, some of my biggest supporters, I absolutely love them—that’s actually where I went when I got my diagnosis. I got home and I went next door. But yeah, we don’t know what to say, and so then we don’t say anything because we don’t want to say the “wrong” thing. Well, you can say, “Dr. Bill, how are you doing today? I’m sorry this you’re going through this.” You don’t need to say anything more than that, just acknowledge it. I remember I was I have taken grief training because we were talking about, you know, grief is one of the emotions that you feel as you’re going through this. And I was talking to someone who had lost a child—which of course is the worst thing that Bill Lampton: The ultimate grief. Deb Krier: Yes, yes. And he told me that nobody ever wants to say anything about the child because we don’t want to cause them pain, right? And and but what he said was by them not saying anything, it’s like he didn’t exist. And so, you know, when people act like we don’t have cancer, they and I get it—you know, especially you know whether it’s something little or something big—we don’t want to make people feel uncomfortable, we don’t want to say the wrong thing. But it’s okay just to say, “I’m sorry you’re going through this,” because then the person can decide how they’re going to respond. They can say thank you, they can go into more detail, they can do whatever. But don’t don’t act like it hasn’t happened, because it has. But you don’t you know it’s it’s okay just to say I’m sorry. Or you know when I had people who told me, “We didn’t know what to say to you,” I told them, “You know what, Hallmark has cards.” You know, and and I have all of the cards that were sent to me when I was in the hospital. I’m not you know at some point I’m probably going to have to recycle, right? But you know, it’s it really was you know and I got the very inspirational cards, I got very faith-based cards, I got funny cards, you know, and we hung them up around my hospital room because it was a simple way for somebody to to show that the they cared and really you know then they didn’t have to to talk, they just sent the card. Bill Lampton: We have time for just one more question, and it is a vital one. I know that you also not only are a caregiver, counselor, encourager for patients, but you also give services of that nature to the healthcare professionals. Tell us in a couple of minutes about that, please. Deb Krier: Well, thank you, Dr. Bill, that’s a that’s a a great question. You know, I talk to medical care providers about how to provide better care for us, the patient. And it’s funny, in their world, they call it patient-centered care, and I call it customer service, and they suck, right? You know, and there’s a variety of reasons for it. Not the least of which is they’re told, “Now you must see 10 patients in an hour,” and bleh bleh bleh, right? And all of those various things. But they tend to forget that we’re not our diagnosis. I’ve actually been referred to as my diagnosis. I was in a room one day and in in my doctor’s office, and I heard the staff say, “The thyroid cancer is in room four.” And I went out, and I said, “Excuse me, I understand HIPAA. I know you can’t yell my name to the whole world.” I said, “But please not refer to me as just my diagnosis. Because that’s just a very small part of who I am.” And I said, “Find some other way to say, you know, who is in room four, but don’t ever call somebody just their diagnosis.” And so it’s it’s things like that. And how to make sure that you can be that the you as the care team can be reached. You know, and I get it, they’re busy, there’s a lot going on, but I was having a procedure last week and my my surgeon needed to talk to my oncologist, and after 45 minutes of trying to get through, he finally told me, “We’re going to have to postpone. I can’t reach your doctor.” That was unacceptable. I told her about it and she said it was unacceptable. You know, and and so how can we make things easier for the patients, which then of course makes it easier for them? Because when we’re more comfortable as a patient, we’re going to be more comfortable sharing with them what’s going on. But if we feel like we’re the number, we’re just the diagnosis, we’re whatever, we’re not going to share what what we’re dealing with with our care provider. Bill Lampton: Deb Krier, this has been absolutely fascinating and and encouraging and uplifting, as I knew it would be. We’re eager, I’m sure, to have others getting in touch with you that you can help them, you can help their families, you can help their caregivers. You’ve got a remarkable way of doing that. So please share with us your contact information. Deb Krier: Well, again, Dr. Bill, thank you so much. I am so honored to be here. I was listening to some of your other programs—you are absolutely phenomenal, and you’ve got a great program, and I truly am honored that that you wanted me to to come on. As I mentioned, the website is www.tryingnottodie.live, and you can go on there. There’s several tabs on there if you are a business owner or an executive, we do have a special program for you, and so that information is there. The link to the Facebook page is there, and there are also ways on there to reach out and and connect with me. And I am more than happy to connect with with anyone, whether you are the person going through cancer yourself or you are a loved one or a friend. Bill Lampton: Thank you for your kind words about the Biz Communication Show, and the Biz Communication Show makes a contribution because of outstanding guests like you. Absolutely. And now that you’ve given your contact information, I’m happy to share mine. My YouTube channel is Bill Lampton, PhD, and I’ve been doing YouTube instructional videos since 2007. I really don’t want you to look at those that I started with, but and honestly and remember these are the YouTube instructions on there for communication, business communication—they belong to our favorite word, free! Deb Krier: Complimentary. Bill Lampton: Alrighty. And then on my YouTube channel, of course, I encourage you to subscribe there. My website, since my tagline is “the Biz communication guy,” naturally my website is bizcommunicationguy.com. And I am open to phone calls, an initial call to talk about your communication challenges and opportunities and what you would like to achieve, and that initial call will be at no cost. I want to give credit to the co-producer of this show. Mike Stewart is a technology and marketing genius that I met in 1997 when I first became an entrepreneur. We were at the National Speakers Association in the Georgia chapter, Mike walked up to me and said, “Have you got a website?” And I said, “Yes, I do,” and he said, “Have you got sound on it?” And I realized then I needed his assistance. And I’ve been calling on Mike ever since. His internet site is localinternetpresence.com, so I definitely encourage you to get in touch with him. Deb, we the clock keeps moving and so we have to come to the end of it. Wonderful, informative, uplifting. And I want to ask, now that we’re at the end of our conversation, are there in 30 seconds or a minute any particular key thoughts that you would like to leave with us? Deb Krier: Well, again, thank you so much. This has been such a delight. I want to remind people that you are in charge. You are your biggest advocate. It’s not the medical team, it’s not the insurance company, it’s not anybody—you are in charge. You get to make the decisions as to how your cancer journey is going to go, and stand your ground, be strong, and you can do it. Bill Lampton: Thousands of people are are are handling it that way because of Deb Krier. Wonderful to host her, and I know the information will be helpful to you, to your family, and to your friends. Thank you again, Deb Krier, for being our guest today. And for those of you who have been our viewers and listeners, invite you to join us every week for the oncoming editions of the Biz Communication Show, where we do bring you those tips and strategies that are vital to your life and to your business. Thank you again.

Bill Lampton: Hi there. Welcome to The Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the biz communication guy, bringing you business communication tips and strategies that will elevate your business. And I don’t do this solo. I do it through a lively conversation with a communication expert who has excelled in business. And I’m very happy today to welcome Elizabeth Cottrell from Woodstock, Virginia. Elizabeth’s career path has been, I’ll definitely underscore this, anything but straight. With a graduate degree in human anatomy, she has been a leprosy researcher, published scientist, wife, mother, grandmother, community leader, and yes, there’s more. Freelance writer, desktop publisher, musician, and amateur radio operator. Since 2016, she has also served as the first woman to chair First National Corporation and First Bank in its 118-year history. Elizabeth is the author of Heartspoken: How to Write Notes that Connect, Comfort, Encourage, and Inspire. And it’s a terrific book. I’ve given it a five-star review on Amazon and I encourage everyone to order that book. Elizabeth speaks and writes widely about the lost art of personal notes through her Heartspoken movement. She encourages people to use note writing as a powerful way to strengthen relationships with family, friends, clients, employees, and donors alike. So I know that you will join me in welcoming Elizabeth Cottrell. Hello Elizabeth. Elizabeth Cottrell: Hello Dr. Bill. What a treat to be here. I’ve been looking forward to this. Bill Lampton: So have I and I know in the meantime you’ve been writing a lot of meaningful notes. Elizabeth Cottrell: I I do my best. I do try to practice what I preach. Bill Lampton: I want to ask you with that, yes, not a straight path career, with all that I just described, it certainly takes strong business communication skills. So I’m curious, where did you and how did you develop the communication skills that have put you even as a as an image breaker in the banking industry? Did you have courses? Did you have coaches or explore on your own? What what was the your path to the incredible wide range of business success that you’ve had? Elizabeth Cottrell: What a great question and and it took me um I’m I’m going down memory lane here but I mean I have to give my father tremendous credit, Jim Herbert, who lived to age 95. Um I’m the oldest of five, uh, and he came from a family of strong women, so he believed in me and my sister and that we could do anything our brothers could do. And, um, and Bill, he taught us, and I hope nobody thinks this is trivial because I think it’s extremely important, he taught us to hop up when somebody came in the room, to shake, shake their hand with a firm handshake, and look them in the eye. And he made us practice handshake because how often have all of us in business scenarios shaken hands with somebody who either had a very unimpressive handshake or broke our hand because it was so strong? So, um, I I think those are the those are the two things that immediately come to mind. But, um, I think he also had a philosophy which I think is really interesting for all of us children. He believed, he said, you don’t need I don’t need to teach you to be the best at anything, but I want to teach you how to do a lot of different things so that if somebody invites you to go water skiing, to go hiking, to go canoeing, you won’t have to say, oh, I don’t know how, I don’t want to do that. And so he gave us confidence in a whole wide range of things that I think then I took that into my later life. Bill Lampton: That’s a blessing and and so you had 96 years of valuable advice from your father. Elizabeth Cottrell: Absolutely. And and then I would have to say in terms of applying, um, that confidence later on to anybody I would any young person I would say is be yourself. We talked about this before we went live. Be yourself, um, show up, and be prepared. And those who have served me well. Bill Lampton: You remind me so much of my childhood because my father managed a department store. And he taught me, and he taught my brother, that when we came back from out of town when we’d become adults even, that it and we came into the store, we were to shake hands with every employee. Elizabeth Cottrell: Ah. Bill Lampton: We were to talk with them about what was going on with them, not what was going on with us. And early in my 20s, that was at first a little bit challenging and maybe awkward, but it it became something after a while. It was so rewarding to to renew contact with people in that store. Maybe if I hadn’t seen some of them in a couple of years, I’ve lived away. So, the the initial contact is is so valuable, and it’s as you say, the handshake is important because Elizabeth Cottrell: It is. Bill Lampton: just walking by and waving or but the handshake and and the right firmness of the handshake, that is that’s a signal of a closer relationship that you want, a closer interaction that Elizabeth Cottrell: It is. And I will add that I also, in a networking situation, will always say my name, even if I’m pretty sure they know it already, because we all have been in situations where um it just slips our mind what the other person’s name is. And my my dad again used to say, well you know you you know your name, usually they know theirs, but not always. Bill Lampton: Well, yes, I’ve I’ve uh of course in the last three decades I’ve been an entrepreneur. I’ve been to many, many networking events. And sometimes when you’ve been going to the same networking event, say a chamber of commerce for a year or so, you’ve met a good number of people. But when you walk into the room of all 100 or 150 at a reception, you just might not remember every name. Elizabeth Cottrell: That’s exactly right. Bill Lampton: But if you walk up and say, “Hi, I’m Elizabeth Cottrell,” or “Hi, I’m Bill Lampton,” they almost automatically will give their name. Elizabeth Cottrell: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a great a great tip. Bill Lampton: There’s something that I came across, I believe it was in your book, where you talked about there was a surprise incident that you had that really led to what I would call your mission that you’ve been engaged in so actively, not just writing a book but speaking and leading seminars and coaching people. And that’s your mission about our writing handwritten notes and letters. What was that event that got you on this track, Elizabeth? Elizabeth Cottrell: Oh, it it makes me emotional just thinking about it. Um, so Dr. Bill, I am of an age that I was taught to write notes. It was it was considered good manners and it was considered um it was expected. And I always thought of it that way, but um the day that I got a letter from a stranger was the day that it shifted my whole thinking. And that letter came from a woman who had lost her son to suicide. And I didn’t know the woman, I didn’t know her son, but I knew her son’s fiancée and had been so um saddened to learn about it and had written to the fiancée a note. Dr. Bill, if I had $100 to know what I said, I’d like to know, because I but I don’t. But whatever it was, the the young woman shared it with her fiancée’s mother. And that woman wrote to me and she said, “I’ve read your note over 25 times and it has helped me through the toughest time in my whole life.” And and like a light bulb going off in my head, it or a lightning bolt, it made me realize that a handwritten note has the potential to be so much more than just good manners. And that really was the beginning. It planted the seed. It was a while before some of the other things happened, but that planted the seed that put me on the trajectory of where I am now. Bill Lampton: It’s a marvelous impact. And I I often I write about all types of business communication, and of course, business people are going to face the loss by death of some of their associates. It might be people they work with, it might be people they work for. And I’ve often heard people say, “Well, I would go to that reception at the funeral. I would but I wouldn’t know what to say.” And I use an illustration. There was a friend of mine who died uh about two years ago and there were over, I would imagine, there were over 400 people at his funeral. And the reception went on two and a half hours with the family greeting people. Now, did the family remember anyone thing that anybody said? No. It didn’t matter what they said because these are cases where your your presence means so much. Elizabeth Cottrell: Absolutely. Bill Lampton: And then again, in those cases, a week or two later, writing what that person meant to you, that’s that’s a great reinforcement, isn’t it? Elizabeth Cottrell: It absolutely is. And and Dr. Bill, I’ll tell you another story that is on a happier end of things, but it’s a kind of a note that some people don’t think about. My husband is a retired physician, and, um, when we first came, when he was a young physician, there was a pharmacist, um, who had been in the area for ages. And about 10 years after we my husband started his practice, that pharmacist retired. And my husband wrote him a note to congratulate him on his retirement. And he also mentioned in it, um, and it was actually a letter, um, rather than a note. But he said, um, “And I want you to know that I I know from from my patients how often you would deliver medicine to them at night and on the weekends and I and I also want you to know that I remember the time that I made a mistake writing a prescription and you called me and said, ‘Doc, is this I just wanted to check and make sure this was something that you meant to do.'” Well, fortunately, that pharmacist had many years of happy retirement before he passed. And, um, my husband and I went to the funeral home and barely walked in the door before the oldest daughter, grown daughter, came rushing up to give my husband a hug and said, “Dr. Cottrell, I just want you to know that when we were going through Daddy’s things, we found your letter and it was in his Bible.” And not only that, but they had passed it around their family and so all of the grown children and all of those grandchildren now know what kind of a man their grandfather was or their father that they wouldn’t have known before. Bill Lampton: I guess it was probably, Elizabeth, and thank you for that. Thank you for that. I guess it was, um, maybe a year ago I was rummaging through my office closet and I found something that I didn’t even know existed. It was a letter from my grandfather to me when I was a kid at camp, summer camp. Elizabeth Cottrell: My! Bill Lampton: And I I didn’t Elizabeth Cottrell: What a treasure. Bill Lampton: Yes, and I I did not remember ever getting that letter. Of course, I was pre-teen at the time, maybe that’s one reason. But it it gave me a totally different picture of him because I had I had always thought of him as rather austere and reserved, but the letter was so warm, and I’m I’m sharing that letter with my daughters and my brother, so that our our letters are really our legacy, aren’t they? Elizabeth Cottrell: They are. They certainly can be. They certainly can be. But, but we needn’t let that burden us or make us think that that when we’re writing something it’s going to be a legacy. We just need to be um sincere and um not worry about the outcome but just let people know you care. Bill Lampton: Right. That’s that’s the key. We’re going to talk next about how you broke that glass ceiling and became the head of a bank, unprecedented. We’ll talk about that. Be back in just a few seconds. Bill Lampton (Voiceover): Do you wish you felt confident about giving speeches? Do you want to deal with difficult people constructively? And what about becoming more persuasive in sales? Then keep listening now to Dr. Bill Lampton. He spent 20 years in management so he knows1 the communication skills you need for success. I urge you to call The Biz Communication Guy today for a no-cost but very valuable 30-minute discussion about your communication challenges. Call now, 678-316-43002. Again, that’s 678-316-4300. Bill Lampton: Elizabeth Cottrell, as we said in the introduction, you overcame a stereotype by becoming head of a bank, very rare, a trailblazing woman doing that. So I think you could give us some great business communication advice on how do we overcome stereotypes? How do we break through them? One of the the best, uh, best definitions that I’ve heard of stereotypes is that a stereotype is the hardening of the categories. [Elizabeth chuckles] So what did you do to make it viable, make it even attractive, make it winsome, that you would become head of a bank? Elizabeth Cottrell: Dr. Bill, I I we jumped the gun a little bit, um, in our earlier conversation by saying I was myself, and I showed up, and I was prepared. So those three things are really important. But I would also say I didn’t pay attention to the stereotypes. And again, I was blessed with being raised with that kind of confidence and not worrying about that. Um, but I just I think when you care, when you are, you have a servant heart, when when you, um, become known for somebody that is community oriented, um, and at the time, and I will I will say this because I have no shame in it. Uh it was a time when finally people were waking up that they needed more women on boards and they needed more women in leadership positions. And so there were some savvy men, um, looking around to see who, who would fit that bill. And so, um, in some time in some ways I was at the right place at the right time. But, um, I do think it it you just need to not worry about that and just show up and be yourself and do your best. Bill Lampton: Thank you for that. I, um, I know that we all have stereotypes that we have to break through in the business world. You’re too young to be promoted. You’re you’re uh, don’t have the proper degrees. You haven’t been here long enough. I know growing up, I had to overcome a stereotype. I’m an identical twin. And there was an automatic assumption when people would see us as little boys that we were exactly alike and that we wanted the same things. We enjoyed the same things. And that even went on into adult life where we went different directions professionally, we had different ideas. So I’ve I’ve lived with having to establish my own individuality. And every one of us in some way or another has stereotypes that we have to overcome. And I’m sure that’s that’s certainly true with those who are job seeking and it’s true with those who are, um, looking for promotions as well. Let’s talk about your book, which is so valuable. Heartspoken: How to Write Notes that Connect, Comfort, Encourage, and Inspire. Tell us, what drove you to write the book and how would it help readers who would get it today? Elizabeth Cottrell: Wow. Thank you, Dr. Bill. Um, so as I started, as I from the story we told earlier, as I became more passionate about writing notes, I kept hearing from people to whom I had written, “Oh, that was such a lovely note. Thank you so much. I wish I knew what to write.” And then some people might have said, well, you know, “How can you help me know what to write?” And finally, I somebody said, “I wish you’d write a book about that.” And that planted a seed, but again, too busy to do anything about it until March, April 2020, when the world shut down from COVID. And that April, I turned 75—uh, 70, sorry. Let’s not make me any older than I am. Bill Lampton: [Chuckles] Elizabeth Cottrell: Um, and my daughter called me for my birthday from New Mexico and she said, “Mom, I know your calendar has gone from completely full to completely empty, just like everybody else’s, and I want you to write that book.” And she didn’t stop there. She said, “And for your birthday, I’m giving you time with a friend of mine who’s an accountability coach.” Well, I had never heard of an accountability coach. But that young woman called me every week for several weeks and to know what I had done and what I was going to do before she called the following week. And because of my daughter’s belief in me and her actually putting her money where her mouth was, I wrote the book that first year of COVID and then figured out what to do with it the next year. So, that’s how it happened. Um, and and as far as, um, I had What has happened since then has just been so amazing to me because I was thinking about people like myself when I wrote it. What I had not anticipated was, um, is the sales professionals and fundraising professionals who have picked it up and realized, “Oh, my goodness, this is something that can help set me apart.” So that’s been a delightful journey to discover that whole group of people that I had not expected, even though I wrote a chapter called Take It to the Office, um, but I had not really identified which groups would really resonate with it. Bill Lampton: Well, that that certainly rings a bell with me because before I became a uh professional speaker, seminar director, communication consultant, I spent two decades in fundraising with colleges, universities, and health care. Had I been able to read your book then and recognize the value of follow-up notes, I’m sure it would have it would have been greater impact than other items that I did as as follow-up. Elizabeth, tell us. Excuse me. Go ahead. Elizabeth Cottrell: No, I I I may be anticipating your question, but I I think that what I really wanted people to to take away from it was not you must do this or you should do this, but to understand the power of connection. And this is what the Heartspoken Movement is all about. And it came from Dr. Brené Brown is a social scientist and in one of her famous TED Talks, she made the comment, “We are hardwired for connection.” And as I thought about that, and I thought about the connections in my life that were important, I realized that this is a just a tool. There are many other tools, but this is just a tool, but but one that is so often overlooked and one that is so often underrated. And so that is, um, that is what I wanted people to take away is to have the come away with confidence and inspiration rather than obligation. Bill Lampton: And the book is available on Amazon. I’ve reviewed it there. There are many positive reviews and I certainly encourage those who are with us either watching or listening to the podcast. I certainly encourage you to get Heartspoken. You know, again, before we started recording live, we talked about you don’t need anything fancy. You don’t need a full sheet, this is the size card that I have. And as we also said, you don’t have to you don’t have to write 30 lines. There’s not room for 30 lines on here. And if you write the uh as you put it, Heartspoken two sentences, um, that that will carry it’s not the amount, it’s it’s what you call that feeling. If you if you get the feeling yourself and you get it across in a handwritten private, personal message, that, as you say, is powerful, great. Elizabeth Cottrell: Absolutely. Absolutely, absolutely. And and your example is so perfect because when you have some stationery cards already printed up, um, it and all you have to do is grab them and add that note. You’re much more inclined to do it. When we make things easy for ourself, whether it’s to go to the gym by putting your shoes and your gym bag out the night before or having that stationery and pen right where you can grab them, those that makes a makes a big difference. Bill Lampton: I thought of you about three or four days ago. I was invited to lunch at a friend’s house. Uh, he’s really a friend of my brother, but I had known this man and his wife a little bit over the years. But we had a wonderful couple of hours lunch on a Sunday afternoon, and as I was driving away, I was thinking, Elizabeth Cottrell wants me to write a follow-up thank-you note. Elizabeth Cottrell: [Chuckles] And you were right. Bill Lampton: Don’t just text, don’t just email, but as you and I have noticed before, everybody, and that’s a pretty inclusive term, but I can practically say everybody every day, you go to the mailbox, there are all kinds of flyers and promotional, and if you get a personal item, you’ll open that first. You might not open the others at all, but certainly, if there’s anything you’re going to open, it’s that personal handwritten message, isn’t it? Elizabeth Cottrell: Absolutely. Absolutely, absolutely. And and it’s not only are you going to open it first, you’re much more likely to save it and reread it. Bill Lampton: Yes. Elizabeth Cottrell: Elizabeth Cottrell, what a privilege, pleasure, learning experience, uplifting motivation, our conversation has been. I know that there are our viewers and listeners who want to get in touch with you, so please give us your contact information. Elizabeth Cottrell: Thank you, Dr. Bill, sure. I would say the easiest thing is is www.heartspoken.com. Um, and that has all of my contact information and all of the things that I’m that I’m up to. And and may I just add, um, we talk a lot about handwritten notes, and there is no doubt if you know me and read my book, you know how much that means to me, but messages of all kinds can be Heartspoken. Telephone messages, text messages, emails can be Heartspoken. So I am not opposed to technology. There’s a place for everything, but make it Heartspoken. Bill Lampton: Amen. And thank you for that contact information. I encourage people to get in touch with you. And now I would like to invite you to my YouTube channel. Bill Lampton, Ph.D. is the way you will find it. [Text overlay: My YouTube Channel is Bill Lampton, Ph.D.] And I’ve been recording instructional videos on YouTube since 2007. I do not encourage you to look at any of the early ones. But in in recent years, I now have over 700 instructional videos on there. And guess what? It’s everybody’s favorite word: it’s free. And while you go to my YouTube channel, I certainly invite you to subscribe. And then as well, my website, since I’m The Biz Communication Guy, bizcommunicationguy.com. [Text overlay: https://bizcommunicationguy.com] And while you’re on the website, you can subscribe to the podcast. I definitely will welcome phone calls with no initial obligation [Text overlay: Call me 678-316-4300] to discuss your communication needs and challenges and how I or someone I know can assist you with them. I also want to give credit to the co-producer of The Biz Communication Show. It’s Mike Stewart, who’s based in Nashville. [Text overlay: https://localinternetpresence.com] Elizabeth talked earlier about getting the right coaches. In one case, it was her daughter, as well. But Mike Stewart, as in 1997, when I became an entrepreneur, I met Mike Stewart and he said, “Have you got a website?” And we took it from there. And I’ve worked with him ever since and he’s the guy who took a novice, a real rookie in technology, and he taught me what I needed to know. And then I also encourage you to look at his website, localinternetpresence.com. Elizabeth, I want to thank you again for being with us today. Appreciate it so much. Elizabeth Cottrell: It was my privilege. I just loved it and and I love have meeting a kindred spirit. Bill Lampton: Yes, we are kindred spirits, and and I think back to in our generation, as say teenagers, I don’t know how you met the doctor, but I I remember I met a hometown girl, but then I went away to school. I was I was the old guy. I was two and a half years older. And how do we keep in touch? We kept in touch by letters. Elizabeth Cottrell: Oh, yes. Absolutely. Bill Lampton: And Elizabeth Cottrell: Absolutely. Bill Lampton: I I encourage people to get into the letter writing and the note writing stage. It will it will definitely enrich your life and the life of the people that that you’re with. Elizabeth Cottrell: It will, and it will be remembered. Bill Lampton: Elizabeth, thank you again so much. Elizabeth Cottrell: Thank you, Dr. Bill. Bill Lampton: Thanks to those of you who joined us on the video portion and also on the audio portion of the podcast. Be with us again next week for another version of The Biz Communication Show.

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