Podcasts about Venn

We are starting something new today, a series on feeling alive!Today's question: What makes you feel alive?I'll see you next week for the next part of our series.Here is the very fun Venn diagram that I reference today:Find it here if for example you are in your favorite podcast app, and it doesn't support images.Thanks for being here. See you for part two next week!KayNuts & BoltsDreamers and Doers Group: Click this link to to learn about the online community I created to do just that… Be in community together. View Art Creativity & Wellbeing in YouTube here, find it in your favorite podcast app, or subscribe below so it shows up right into your inbox.Art Creativity & Wellbeing is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kaylockkolp.substack.com/subscribe

Longevity science is shifting fast. New discoveries are revealing that aging may be influenced not just by genetics or lifestyle, but by specific nutrients that regulate cellular health. In this episode of Habits & Hustle, I sit down with Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson to explore the discovery of C15, a fatty acid that emerged from decades of research studying Navy dolphins. Her work suggests that declining C15 levels may weaken cell membranes, accelerate aging, and increase vulnerability to metabolic disease. We break down how this molecule works, why not all saturated fats are the same, and how modern dietary shifts away from full-fat dairy may be contributing to widespread nutrient deficiencies. We also discuss how C15 interacts with longevity pathways like AMPK and mTOR, the same pathways targeted by drugs like metformin and rapamycin, and why researchers believe C15 may function as a geroprotector — a compound capable of slowing biological aging. Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson is a veterinary epidemiologist, CEO of Seraphina Therapeutics, and author of The Longevity Nutrient. Her work bridges marine biology, epidemiology, and human longevity science to uncover how nutrition influences cellular aging. What's Discussed (07:48) How studying Navy dolphins led to a breakthrough in longevity research (10:31) Why dolphins are a powerful model for studying human aging (16:04) The discovery of C15 and its role in metabolic health (17:33) Why not all saturated fats are harmful (20:25) How C15 interacts with longevity pathways like mTOR and AMPK (22:23) How modern diets may be creating a widespread C15 deficiency (24:30) The link between C15 deficiency and accelerated cellular aging (27:11) How dairy fat became the primary source of C15 in humans (31:18) Why C15 may qualify as a “geroprotector” (34:28) How to measure C15 levels through blood testing (39:23) Signs of cellular fragility and biological aging in blood markers (43:02) How C15 may influence inflammation and autoimmune conditions (50:20) The lifestyle factors that matter most for longevity (55:17) Other ways to increase C15 levels through diet and exercise Thank you to our sponsors: Rho Nutrition: Try Rho Nutrition today and experience the difference of Liposomal Technology. Use code JEN20 for 20% OFF everything at https://rhonutrition.com/discount/jen20  Prolon: Get 30% off sitewide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their 5-Day Program! Just visit https://prolonlife.com/JENNIFERCOHEN and use code JENNIFERCOHEN to claim your discount and your bonus gift. Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off  Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code HUSTLE40 for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. Momentous: Shop this link and use code Jen for 20% off  Manna Vitality: Visit mannavitality.com and use code JENNIFER20 for 20% off your order  Amp fit is the perfect balance of tech and training, designed for people who do it all and still want to feel strong doing it. Check it out at joinamp.com/jen   Find more from Jen:  Website: https://jennifercohen.com Instagram: @therealjencohen Books: https://jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Stephanie Venn-Watson: Website: https://fatty15.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fatty15/?hl=it  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanievennwatson/ Book: The Longevity Nutrient

From chip design at Bell Laboratories to…the world's #1 Venn diagram comedian?? Today, we're talking to Don McMillan, comedian and former chip designer at Bell Laboratories. We discuss how burning out in Silicon Valley led him to pursue stand-up comedy full time, why having an engineering mindset made him a better comedian, and how a random radio caller unknowingly changed the entire trajectory of his life. All of this right here, right now, on the Modern CTO Podcast!  To learn more about Don and his tour schedule, check out his website here

I denne episoden av Scoochpodden blir vi med på nok en runde i hallene til Statens vegvesen. Slikt innhold har en viss allmenn interesse, og kan etter hvert gi et ferdig utfylt Venn-diagram over hva som faktisk er mulig – og ikke mulig – når det gjelder registrering. Tiden nærmer seg for å finne ut om bilen flyter. Er det best å legge opp et eget opplegg på dypt vann, eller holde seg på grunna sammen med kjentfolk? Vi snakker også om måtehold i samlingen for å unngå overload i synsnerven. Og det blir både olabil og reels-prat!Bli patreon av Scoochpodden å få episodene reklamefrie: https://www.patreon.com/scoochpodFølg oss på facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100051375947801Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/scoochpod/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, we sit down again with veterinary epidemiologist and Fatty15 co-founder Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson to explore the emerging science behind C15:0, an odd-chain saturated fatty acid increasingly recognized as potentially essential for human health. The conversation begins by addressing skepticism and online claims that C15:0 research is a "scam," before diving into the human and epidemiological evidence showing that higher circulating levels of C15:0 are associated with lower cardiometabolic disease risk. Dr. Venn-Watson explains why not all saturated fats behave the same biologically, contrasting C15:0 with C16 and highlighting C15:0's unique properties including anti-inflammatory effects, mitochondrial support, and protection against cellular stress. Together they explore how modern dietary patterns may have reduced natural intake of this nutrient, what the latest clinical and mechanistic research suggests about aging and metabolic health, and why continuing to challenge long-standing nutrition dogma requires following the data wherever it leads. ----- 00:00 – The "C15 Essential Fatty Acid Scam" Debate 02:08 – Why Critics Say There Isn't Enough Human Evidence 06:35 – Dolphin Research That Led to the Discovery of C15 11:15 – Epidemiology: Higher C15 and Lower Cardiometabolic Risk 16:05 – Saturated Fat: Why the Narrative May Be Oversimplified 21:30 – C15 vs C16: Not All Saturated Fats Are the Same 27:05 – What Makes a Fat Truly "Essential" 32:10 – The "Goldilocks Fat": Why C15 Stands Out 38:20 – Anti-Inflammatory vs Pro-Inflammatory Fats 44:40 – Mitochondria, Cellular Stability, and Longevity 51:15 – Ferroptosis and Protecting Cells From Oxidative Damage 57:50 – Are We Aging Faster Without Enough C15? 1:05:10 – Why Modern Diets May Be Lower in C15 1:12:30 – How Scientists Follow the Data, Even Against Dogma 1:21:50 – What "Ever Forward" Means in Science and Life ----- Episode resources: Stephanie's first appearance on the show in episode 832 Save 15% with code EVERFORWARD at https://www.Fatty15.com/everforward

The reception to our recent post on Code Reviews has been strong. Catch up!Amid a maelstrom of discussion on whether or not AI is killing SaaS, one of the top publicly listed SaaS companies in the world has just reported record revenues, clearing well over $1.1B in ARR for the first time with a 28% margin. As we comment on the pod, Aaron Levie is the rare public company CEO equally at home in both worlds of Silicon Valley and Wall Street/Main Street, by day helping 70% of the Fortune 500 with their Enterprise Advanced Suite, and yet by night is often found in the basements of early startups and tweeting viral insights about the future of agents.Now that both Cursor, Cloudflare, Perplexity, Anthropic and more have made Filesystems and Sandboxes and various forms of “Just Give the Agent a Box” cool (not just cool; it is now one of the single hottest areas in AI infrastructure growing 100% MoM), we find it a delightfully appropriate time to do the episode with the OG CEO who has been giving humans and computers Boxes since he was a college dropout pitching VCs at a Michael Arrington house party.Enjoy our special pod, with fan favorite returning guest/guest cohost Jeff Huber!Note: We didn't directly discuss the AI vs SaaS debate - Aaron has done many, many, many other podcasts on that, and you should read his definitive essay on it. Most commentators do not understand SaaS businesses because they have never scaled one themselves, and deeply reflected on what the true value proposition of SaaS is.We also discuss Your Company is a Filesystem:We also shoutout CTO Ben Kus' and the AI team, who talked about the technical architecture and will return for AIE WF 2026.Full Video EpisodeTimestamps* 00:00 Adapting Work for Agents* 01:29 Why Every Agent Needs a Box* 04:38 Agent Governance and Identity* 11:28 Why Coding Agents Took Off First* 21:42 Context Engineering and Search Limits* 31:29 Inside Agent Evals* 33:23 Industries and Datasets* 35:22 Building the Agent Team* 38:50 Read Write Agent Workflows* 41:54 Docs Graphs and Founder Mode* 55:38 Token FOMO Culture* 56:31 Production Function Secrets* 01:01:08 Film Roots to Box* 01:03:38 AI Future of Movies* 01:06:47 Media DevRel and EngineeringTranscriptAdapting Work for AgentsAaron Levie: Like you don't write code, you talk to an agent and it goes and does it for you, and you may be at best review it. That's even probably like, like largely not even what you're doing. What's happening is we are changing our work to make the agents effective. In that model, the agent didn't really adapt to how we work.We basically adapted to how the agent works. All of the economy has to go through that exact same evolution. Right now, it's a huge asset and an advantage for the teams that do it early and that are kinda wired into doing this ‘cause you'll see compounding returns. But that's just gonna take a while for most companies to actually go and get this deployed.swyx: Welcome to the Lane Space Pod. We're back in the chroma studio with uh, chroma, CEO, Jeff Hoover. Welcome returning guest now guest host.Aaron Levie: It's a pleasure. Wow. How'd you get upgraded to, uh, to that?swyx: Because he's like the perfect guy to be guest those for you.Aaron Levie: That makes sense actually, for We love context. We, we both really love context le we really do.We really do.swyx: Uh, and we're here with, uh, Aaron Levy. Welcome.Aaron Levie: Thank you. Good to, uh, good to be [00:01:00] here.swyx: Uh, yeah. So we've all met offline and like chatted a little bit, but like, it's always nice to get these things in person and conversation. Yeah. You just started off with so much energy. You're, you're super excited about agents.I loveAaron Levie: agents.swyx: Yeah. Open claw. Just got by, got bought by OpenAI. No, not bought, but you know, you know what I mean?Aaron Levie: Some, some, you know, acquihire. Executiveswyx: hire.Aaron Levie: Executive hire. Okay. Executive hire. Say,swyx: hey, that's my term. Okay. Um, what are you pounding the table on on agents? You have so many insightful tweets.Why Every Agent Needs a BoxAaron Levie: Well, the thing that, that we get super excited by that I think is probably, you know, should be relatively obvious is we've, we've built a platform to help enterprises manage their files and their, their corporate files and the permissions of who has access to those files and the sharing collaboration of those files.All of those files contain really, really important information for the enterprise. It might have your contracts, it might have your research materials, it might have marketing information, it might have your memos. All that data obviously has, you know, predominantly been used by humans. [00:02:00] But there's been one really interesting problem, which is that, you know, humans only really work with their files during an active engagement with them, and they kind of go away and you don't really see them for a long time.And all of a sudden, uh, with the power of AI and AI agents, all of that data becomes extremely relevant as this ongoing source of, of answers to new questions of data that will transform into, into something else that, that produces value in your organization. It, it contains the answer to the new employee that's onboarding, that needs to ramp up on a project.Um, it contains the answer to the right thing to sell a customer when you're having a conversation to them, with them contains the roadmap information that's gonna produce the next feature. So all that data. That previously we've been just sort of storing and, and you know, occasionally forgetting about, ‘cause we're only working on the new active stuff.All of that information becomes valuable to the enterprise and it's gonna become extremely valuable to end users because now they can have agents go find what they're looking for and produce new, new [00:03:00] value and new data on that information. And it's gonna become incredibly valuable to agents because agents can roam around and do a bunch of work and they're gonna need access to that data as well.And um, and you know, sometimes that will be an agent that is sort of working on behalf of, of, of you and, and effectively as you as and, and they are kind of accessing all of the same information that you have access to and, and operating as you in the system. And then sometimes there's gonna be agents that are just.Effectively autonomous and kind of run on their own and, and you're gonna collaborate and work with them kind of like you did another person. Open Claw being the most recent and maybe first real sort of, you know, kind of, you know, up updating everybody's, you know, views of this landscape version of, of what that could look like, which is, okay, I have an agent.It's on its own system, it's on its own computer, it has access to its own tools. I probably don't give it access to my entire life. I probably communicate with it like I would an assistant or a colleague and then it, it sort of has this sandbox environment. So all of that has massive implications for a platform that manage that [00:04:00] enterprise data.We think it's gonna just transform how we work with all of the enterprise content that we work with, and we just have to make sure we're building the right platform to support that.swyx: The sort of shorthand I put it is as people build agents, everybody's just realizing that every agent needs a box. Yes.And it's nice to be called box and just give everyone a box.Aaron Levie: Hey, I if I, you know, if we can make that go viral, uh, like I, I think that that terminology, I, that's theswyx: tagline. Every agentAaron Levie: needs a box. Every agent needs a box. If we can make that the headline of this, I'm fine with this. And that's the billboard I wanna like Yeah, exactly.Every agent needs a box. Um, I like it. Can we ship this? Like,swyx: okay, let's do it. Yeah.Aaron Levie: Uh, my work here is done and I got the value I needed outta this podcast Drinks.swyx: Yeah.Agent Governance and IdentityAaron Levie: But, but, um, but, but, you know, so the thing that we, we kind of think about is, um, is, you know, whether you think the number 10 x or a hundred x or whatever the number is, we're gonna have some order of magnitude more agents than people.That's inevitable. It has to happen. So then the question is, what is the infrastructure that's needed to make all those agents effective in the enterprise? Make sure that they are well governed. Make sure they're only doing [00:05:00] safe things on your information. Make sure that they're not getting exposed. The data that they shouldn't have access to.There's gonna be just incredibly spectacularly crazy security incidents that will happen with agents because you'll prompt, inject an agent and sort of find your way through the CRM system and pull out data that you shouldn't have access to. Oh, weJeff Huber: have God,Aaron Levie: right? I mean, that's just gonna happen all over the place, right?So, so then the thing is, is how do you make sure you have the right security, the permissions, the access controls, the data governance. Um, we actually don't yet exactly know in many cases how we're gonna regulate some of these agents, right? If you think about an agent in financial services, does it have the exact same financial sort of, uh, requirements that a human did?Or is it, is the risk fully on the human that was interacting or created the agent? All open questions, but no matter what, there's gonna need to be a layer that manages the, the data they have access to, the workflows that they're involved in, pulling up data from multiple systems. This is the new infrastructure opportunity in the era of agents.swyx: You have a piece on agent identities, [00:06:00] which I think was today, um, which I think a lot of breaking news, the security, security people are talking about, right? Like you basically, I, I always think of this as like, well you need the human you and then there you need the agent. YouAaron Levie: Yes.swyx: And uh, well, I don't know if it's that simple, but is box going to have an opinion on that or you're just gonna be like, well we're just the sort of the, the source layer.Yeah. Let's Okta of zero handle that.Aaron Levie: I think we're gonna have an opinion and we will work with generally wherever the contours of the market end up. Um, and the reason that we're gonna have an opinion more than other topics probably is because one of the biggest use cases for why your agent might need it, an identity is for file system access.So thus we have to kind of think about this pretty deeply. And I think, uh, unless you're like in our world thinking about this particular problem all day long, it might be, you know, like, why is this such a big deal? And the reason why it's a really big deal is because sometimes sort of say, well just give the agent an, an account on the system and it just treats, treat it like every other type of user on the system.The [00:07:00] problem is, is that I as Aaron don't really have any responsibility over anybody else's box account in our organization. I can't see the box account of any other employee that I work with. I am not liable for anything that they do. And they have, I have, I have, you know, strict privacy requirements on everything that they're able to, you know, that, that, that they work on.Agents don't have that, you know, don't have those properties. The person who creates the agent probably is gonna, for the foreseeable future, take on a lot of the liability of what that agent does. That agent doesn't deserve any privacy because, because it's, you know, it can't fully be autonomously operated and it doesn't have any legal, you know, kind of, you know, responsibility.So thus you can't just be like, oh, well I'll just create a bunch of accounts and then I'll, I'll kind of work with that agent and I'll talk to it occasionally. Like you need oversight of that. And so then the question is, how do you have a world where the agent, sometimes you have oversight of, but what if that agent goes and works with other people?That person over there is collaborating with the agent on something you shouldn't have [00:08:00] access to what they're doing. So we have all of these new boundaries that we're gonna have to figure out of, of, you know, it's really, really easy. So far we've been in, in easy mode. We've hit the easy button with ai, which is the agent just is you.And when you're in quad code and you're in cursor, and you're in Codex, you're just, the agent is you. You're offing into your services. It can do everything you can do. That's the easy mode. The hard mode is agents are kind of running on their own. People check in with them occasionally, they're doing things autonomously.How do you give them access to resources in the enterprise and not dramatically increased the security risk and the risk that you might expose the wrong thing to somebody. These are all the new problems that we have to get solved. I like the identity layer and, and identity vendors as being a solution to that, but we'll, we'll need some opinions as well because so many of the use cases are these collaborative file system use cases, which is how do I give it an agent, a subset of my data?Give it its own workspace as well. ‘cause it's gonna need to store off its own information that would be relevant for it. And how do I have the right oversight into that? [00:09:00]Jeff Huber: One thing, which, um, I think is kind interesting, think about is that you know, how humans work, right? Like I may not also just like give you access to the whole file.I might like sit next to you and like scroll to this like one part of the file and just show you that like one part and like, you know,swyx: partial file access.Jeff Huber: I'm just saying I think like our, like RA does seem to be dead, right? Like you wanna say something is dead uhhuh probably RA is dead. And uh, like the auth story to me seems like incredibly unsolved and unaddressed by like the existing state of like AI vendors.ButAaron Levie: yeah, I think, um, we're, I mean you're taking obviously really to level limit that we probably need to solve for. Yeah. And we built an access control system that was, was kind of like, you know, its own little world for, for a long time. And um, and the idea was this, it's a many to many collaboration system where I can give you any part of the file system.And it's a waterfall model. So if I give you higher up in the, in the, in the system, you get everything below. And that, that kind of created immense flexibility because I can kind of point you to any layer in the, in the tree, but then you're gonna get access to everything kind of below it. And that [00:10:00] mostly is, is working in this, in this world.But you do have to manage this issue, which is how do I create an agent that has access to some of my stuff and somebody else's stuff as well. Mm-hmm. And which parts do I get to look at as the creator of the agent? And, and these are just brand new problems? Yeah. Crazy. And humans, when there was a human there that was really easy to do.Like, like if the three of us were all sharing, there'd be a Venn diagram where we'd have an overlapping set of things we've shared, but then we'd have our own ways that we shared with each other. In an agent world, somebody needs to take responsibility for what that agent has access to and what they're working on.These are like the, some of the most probably, you know, boring problems for 98% of people on, on the internet, but they will be the problems that are the difference between can you actually have autonomous agents in an enterprise contextswyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: That are not leaking your data constantly.swyx: No. Like, I mean, you know, I run a very, very small company for my conference and like we already have data sensitivity issues.Yes. And some of my team members cannot see Yes. Uh, the others and like, I can't imagine what it's like to run a Fortune 500 and like, you have to [00:11:00] worry about this. I'm just kinda curious, like you, you talked to a lot like, like 70, 80% of your cus uh, of the Fortune 500, your customers.Aaron Levie: Yep. 67%. Just so we're being verySEswyx: precise.So Yeah. I'm notAaron Levie: Okay. Okay.swyx: Something I'm rounding up. Yes. Round up. I'm projecting to, forAaron Levie: the government.swyx: I'm projecting to the end of the year.Aaron Levie: Okay.swyx: There you go.Aaron Levie: You do make it sound like, like we, we, well we've gotta be on this. Like we're, we're taking way too long to get to 80%. Well,swyx: no, I mean, so like. How are they approaching it?Right? Because you're, you don't have a, you don't have a final answer yet.Why Coding Agents Took Off FirstAaron Levie: Well, okay, so, so this is actually, this is the stark reality that like, unfortunately is the kinda like pouring the water on the party a little bit.swyx: Yes.Aaron Levie: We all in Silicon Valley are like, have the absolute best conditions possible for AI ever.And I think we all saw the dke, you know, kind of Dario podcast and this idea of AI coding. Why is that taken off? And, and we're not yet fully seeing it everywhere else. Well, look, if you just like enumerated the list of properties that AI coding has and then compared it to other [00:12:00] knowledge work, let's just, let's just go through a few of them.Generally speaking, you bring on a new engineer, they have access to a large swath of the code base. Like, there's like very, like you, just, like new engineer comes on, they can just go and find the, the, the stuff that they, they need to work with. It's a fully text in text out. Medium. It's only, it's just gonna be text at the end of the day.So it's like really great from a, from just a, uh, you know, kinda what the agent can work with. Obviously the models are super trained on that dataset. The labs themselves have a really strong, kind of self-reinforcing positive flywheel of why they need to do, you know, agent coding deeply. So then you get just better tooling, better services.The actual developers of the AI are daily users of the, of the thing that they're we're working on versus like the, you know, probably there's only like seven Claude Cowork legal plugin users at Anthropic any given day, but there's like a couple thousand Claude code and you know, users every single day.So just like, think about which one are they getting more feedback on. All day long. So you just go through this list. You have a, you know, everybody who's a [00:13:00] developer by definition is technical so they can go install the latest thing. We're all generally online, or at least, you know, kinda the weird ones are, and we're all talking to each other, sharing best practices, like that's like already eight differences.Versus the rest of the economy. Every other part of the economy has like, like six to seven headwinds relative to that list. You go into a company, you're a banker in financial services, you have access to like a, a tiny little subset of the total data that's gonna be relevant to do your job. And you're have to start to go and talk to a bunch of people to get the right data to do your job because Sally didn't add you to that deal room, you know, folder.And that that, you know, the information is actually in a completely different organization that you now have to go in and, and sort of run into. And it's like you have this endless list of access controls and security. As, as you talked about, you have a medium, which is not, it's not just text, right? You have, you have a zoom call that, that you're getting all of the requirements from the customer.You have a lot of in-person conversations and you're doing in-person sales and like how do you ever [00:14:00] digitize all of that information? Um, you know, I think a lot of people got upset with this idea that the code base has all the context, um, that I don't know if you follow, you know, did you follow some of that conversation that that went viral?Is like, you know, it's not that simple that, that the code base doesn't have all the knowledge, but like it's a lot, you're a lot better off than you are with other areas of knowledge work. Like you, we like, we like have documentation practices, you write specifications. Those things don't exist for like 80% of work that happens in the enterprise.That's the divide that we have, which is, which is AI coding has, has just fully, you know, where we've reached escape velocity of how powerful this stuff is, and then we're gonna have to find a way to bring that same energy and momentum, but to all these other areas of knowledge work. Where the tools aren't there, the data's not set up to be there.The access controls don't make it that easy. The context engineering is an incredibly hard problem because again, you have access control challenges, you have different data formats. You have end users that are gonna need to kind of be kind of trained through this as opposed to their adopting [00:15:00] these tools in their free time.That's where the Fortune 500 is. And so we, I think, you know, have to be prepared as an industry where we are gonna be on a multi-year march to, to be able to bring agents to the enterprise for these workflows. And I think probably the, the thing that we've learned most in coding that, that the rest of the world is not yet, I think ready for, I mean, we're, they'll, they'll have to be ready for it because it's just gonna inevitably happen is I think in coding.What, what's interesting is if you think about the practice of coding today versus two years ago. It's probably the most changed workflow in maybe the history of time from the amount of time it's changed, right? Yeah. Like, like has any, has any workflow in the entire economy changed that quickly in terms of the amount of change?I just, you know, at least in any knowledge worker workflow, there's like very rarely been an event where one piece of technology and work practice has so fundamentally, you know, changed, changed what you do. Like you don't write code, you talk to an agent and it goes and [00:16:00] does it for you, and you may be at best review it.And even that's even probably like, like largely not even what you're doing. What's happening is we are changing our work to make the agents effective. In that model, the agent didn't really adapt to how we work. We basically adapted to how the agent works. Mm-hmm. All of the economy has to go through that exact same evolution.The rest of the economy is gonna have to update its workflows to make agents effective. And to give agents the context that they need and to actually figure out what kind of prompting works and to figure out how do you ensure that the agent has the right access to information to be able to execute on its work.I, you know, this is not the panacea that people were hoping for, of the agent drops in, just automates your life. Like you have to basically re-engineer your workflow to get the most out of agents and, uh, and that, that's just gonna take, you know, multiple years across the economy. Right now it's a huge asset and an advantage for the teams that do it early and that are kinda wired into doing this.‘cause [00:17:00] you'll see compounding returns, but that's just gonna take a while for most companies to actually go and get this deployed.swyx: I love, I love pushing back. I think that. That is what a lot of technology consultants love to hear this sort of thing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. First to, to embrace the ai. Yes. To get to the promised land, you must pay me so much money to a hundred percent to adopt the prescribed way of, uh, conforming to the agents.Yes. And I worry that you will be eclipsed by someone else who says, no, come as you are.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And we'll meet you where you are.Aaron Levie: And, and, and and what was the thing that went viral a week ago? OpenAI probably, uh, is hiring F Dees. Yeah. Uh, to go into the enterprise. Yeah. Yeah. And then philanthropic is embedded at Goldman Sachs.Yeah. So if the labs are having to do this, if, if the labs have decided that they need to hire FDE and professional services, then I think that's a pretty clear indication that this, there's no easy mode of workflow transformation. Yeah. Yeah. So, so to your point, I think actually this is a market opportunity for, you know, new professional services and consulting [00:18:00] firms that are like Agent Build and they, and they kind of, you know, go into organizations and they figure out how to re-engineer your workflows to make them more agent ready and get your data into the right format and, you know, reconstruct your business process.So you're, you're not doing most of the work. You're telling agents how to do the work and then you're reviewing it. But I haven't seen the thing that can just drop in and, and kinda let you not go through those changes.swyx: I don't know how that kind of sales pitch goes over. Yeah. You know, you're, you're saying things like, well, in my sort of nice beautiful walled garden, here's, there's, uh, because here's this, here's this beautiful box account that has everything.Yes. And I'm like, well, most, most real life is extremely messy. Sure. And like, poorly named and there duplicate this outdated s**tAaron Levie: a hundred percent. And so No, no, a hundred percent. And so this is actually No. So, so this is, I mean, we agree that, that getting to the beautiful garden is gonna be tough.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: There's also the other end of the spectrum where I, I just like, it's a technical impossibility to solve. The agent is, is truly cannot get enough context to make the right decision in, in the, in the incredibly messy land. Like there's [00:19:00] no a GI that will solve that. So, so we're gonna have to kind of land in somewhere in between, which is like we all collectively get better at.Documentation practices and, and having authoritative relatively up-to-date information and putting it in the right place like agents will, will certainly cause us to be much better organized around how we work with our information, simply because the severity of the agent pulling the wrong data will be too high and the productivity gain of that you'll miss out on by not doing this will be too high as well, that you, that your competition will just do it and they'll just have higher velocity.So, uh, and, and we, we see this a lot firsthand. So we, we build a series of agents internally that they can kind of have access to your full box account and go off and you give it a task and it can go find whatever information you're looking for and work with. And, you know, thank God for the model progress, but like, if, if you gave that task to an agent.Nine months ago, you're just gonna get lots of bogus answers because it's gonna, it's gonna say, Hey, here's, here are fi [00:20:00] five, you know, documents that all kind of smell like the right thing. And I'm gonna, but I, but you're, you're putting me on the clock. ‘cause my assistant prompt says like, you know, be pretty smart, but also try and respond to the user and it's gonna respond.And it's like, ah, it got the wrong document. And then you do that once or twice as a knowledge worker and you're just neverswyx: again,Aaron Levie: never again. You're just like done with the system.swyx: Yeah. It doesn't work.Aaron Levie: It doesn't work. And so, you know, Opus four six and Gemini three one Pro and you know, whatever the latest five 3G BT will be, like, those things are getting better and better and it's using better judgment.And this sort of like the, all of these updates to the agentic tool and search systems are, are, we're seeing, we're seeing very real progress where the agent. Kind of can, can almost smell some things a little bit fishy when it's getting, you know, we, we have this process where we, we have it go fan out, do a bunch of searches, pull up a bunch of data, and then it has to sort of do its own ranking of, you know, what are the right documents that, that it should be working with.And again, like, you know, the intelligence level of a model six months ago, [00:21:00] it'd be just throwing a dart at like, I'm just, I'm gonna grab these seven files and I, I pray, I hope that that's the right answer. And something like an opus first four five, and now four six is like, oh, it's like, no, that one doesn't seem right relative to this question because I'm seeing some signal that is making that, you know, that's contradicting the document where it would normally be in the tree and who should have access.Like it's doing all of that kind of work for you. But like, it still doesn't work if you just have a total wasteland of data. Like, it's just not, it's just not possible. Partly ‘cause a human wouldn't even be able to do it. So basically if a, if a really, really smart human. Could not do that task in five or 10 minutes for a search retrieval type task.Look, you know, your agent's not gonna be able to do it any better. You see this all day long. SoContext Engineering and Search Limitsswyx: this touches on a thing that just passionate about it was just context engineering. I, I'm just gonna let you ramble or riff on, on context engineering. If, if, if there's anything like he, he did really good work on context fraud, which has really taken over as like the term that people use and the referenceAaron Levie: a hundred percent.We, we all we think about is, is the context rob problem. [00:22:00]Jeff Huber: Yeah, there's certainly a lot of like ranking considerations. Gentech surgery think is incredibly promising. Um, yeah, I was trying to generate a question though. I think I have a question right now. Swyx.Aaron Levie: Yeah, no, but like, like I think there was this moment, um, you know, like, I don't know, two years ago before, before we knew like where the, the gotchas were gonna be in ai and I think someone was like, was like, well, infinite context windows will just solve all of these problems and ‘cause you'll just, you'll just give the context window like all the data and.It's just like, okay, I mean, maybe in 2035, like this is a viable solution. First of all, it, it would just, it would just simply cost too much. Like we just can't give the model like the 5,000 documents that might be relevant and it's gonna read them all. And I've seen enough to, to start believing in crazy stuff.So like, I'm willing to just say, sure. Like in, in 10 years from now,swyx: never say, never, never.Aaron Levie: In, in 10 years from now, we'll have infinite context windows at, at a thousandth of the price of today. Like, let's just like believe that that's possible, but Right. We're in reality today. So today we have a context engineering [00:23:00] problem, which is, I got, I got, you know, 200,000 tokens that I can work with, or prob, I don't even know what the latest graph is before, like massive degradation.16. Okay. I have 60,000 tokens that I get to work with where I'm gonna get accurate information. That's not a lot of tokens for a corpus of 10 million documents that a knowledge worker might have across all of the teams and all the projects and all the people they work with. I have, I have 10 million documents.Which, you know, maybe is times five pages per document or something like that. I'm at 50 million pages of information and I have 60,000 tokens. Like, holy s**t. Yeah. This is like, how do I bridge the 50 million pages of information with, you know, the couple hundred that I get to work with in that, in that token window.Yeah. This is like, this is like such an interesting problem and that's why actually so much work is actually like, just like search systems and the databases and that layer has to just get so locked in, but models getting better and importantly [00:24:00] knowing when they've done a search, they found the wrong thing, they go back, they check their work, they, they find a way to balance sort of appeasing the user versus double checking.We have this one, we have this one test case where we ask the agent to go find. 10 pieces of information.swyx: Is this the complex work eval?Aaron Levie: Uh, this is actually not in the eval. This is, this is sort of just like we have a bunch of different, we have a bunch of internal benchmark kind of scenarios. Every time we, we update our agent, we have one, which is, I ask it to find all of our office addresses, and I give it the list of 10 offices that we have.And there's not one document that has this, maybe there should be, that would be a great example of the kind of thing that like maybe over time companies start to, you know, have these sort of like, what are the canonical, you know, kind of key areas of knowledge that we need to have. We don't seem to have this one document that says, here are all of our offices.We have a bunch of documents that have like, here's the New York office and whatever. So you task this agent and you, you get, you say, I need the addresses for these 10 offices. Okay. And by the way, if you do this on any, you know, [00:25:00] public chat model, the same outcome is gonna happen. But for a different kind of query, you give it, you say, I need these 10 addresses.How many times should the agent go and do its search before it decides whether or not, there's just no answer to this question. Often, and especially the, the, let's say lower tier models, it'll come back and it'll give you six of the 10 addresses. And it'll, and I'll just say I couldn't find the otherswyx: four.It, it doesn't know what It doesn't know. ItAaron Levie: doesn't know what It doesn't know. Yeah. So the model is just like, like when should it stop? When should it stop doing? Like should it, should it do that task for literally an hour and just keep cranking through? Maybe I actually made up an office location and it doesn't know that I made it up and I didn't even know that I made it up.Like, should it just keep, re should it read every single file in your entire box account until it, until it should exhaust every single piece of information.swyx: Expensive.Aaron Levie: These are the new problems that we have. So, you know, something like, let's say a new opus model is sort of like, okay, I'm gonna try these types of queries.I didn't get exactly what I wanted. I'm gonna try again. I'm gonna, at [00:26:00] some point I'm gonna stop searching. ‘cause I've determined that that no amount of searching is gonna solve this problem. I'm just not able to do it. And that judgment is like a really new thing that the model needs to be able to have.It's like, when should it give up on a task? ‘cause, ‘cause you just don't, it's a can't find the thing. That's the real world of knowledge, work problems. And this is the stuff that the coding agents don't have to deal with. Because they, it just doesn't like, like you're not usually asking it about, you're, you're always creating net new information coming right outta the model for the most part.Obviously it has to know about your code base and your specs and your documentation, but, but when you deploy an agent on all of your data that now you have all of these new problems that you're dealing withJeff Huber: our, uh, follow follow-up research to context ride is actually on a genetic search. Ah. Um, and we've like right, sort of stress tested like frontier models and their ability to search.Um, and they're not actually that good at searching. Right. Uh, so you're sort of highlighting this like explore, exploit.swyx: You're just say, Debbie, Donna say everything doesn't work. Like,Aaron Levie: well,Jeff Huber: somebody has to be,Aaron Levie: um, can I just throw out one more thing? Yeah. That is different from coding and, and the rest [00:27:00] of the knowledge work that I, I failed to mention.So one other kind of key point is, is that, you know, at the end of the day. Whether you believe we're in a slop apocalypse or, or whatever. At the end of the day, if you, if you build a working product at the end of, if you, if you've built a working solution that is ultimately what the customer is paying for, like whether I have a lot of slop, a little slop or whatever, I'm sure there's lots of code bases we could go into in enterprise software companies where it's like just crazy slop that humans did over a 20 year period, but the end customer just gets this little interface.They can, they can type into it, it does its thing. Knowledge work, uh, doesn't have that property. If I have an AI model, go generate a contract and I generate a contract 20 times and, you know, all 20 times it's just 3% different and like that I, that, that kind of lop introduces all new kinds of risk for my organization that the code version of that LOP didn't, didn't introduce.These are, and so like, so how do you constrain these models to just the part that you want [00:28:00] them to work on and just do the thing that you want them to do? And, and, you know, in engineering, we don't, you can't be disbarred as an engineer, but you could be disbarred as a lawyer. Like you can do the wrong medical thing In healthcare, you, there's no, there's no equivalent to that of engineering.Like, doswyx: you want there to be, because I've considered softwareJeff Huber: engineer. What's that? Civil engineering there is, right? NotAaron Levie: software civil engineer. Sure. Oh yeah, for sure. But like in any of our companies, you like, you know, you'll be forgiven if you took down the site and, and we, we will do a rollback and you'll, you'll be in a meeting, but you have not been disbarred as an engineer.We don't, we don't change your, you know, your computer science, uh, blameJeff Huber: degree, this postmortem.Aaron Levie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, so, uh, now maybe we collectively as an industry need to figure out like, what are you liable for? Not legally, but like in a, in a management sense, uh, of these agents. All sorts of interesting problems that, that, that, uh, that have to come out.But in knowledge work, that's the real hostile environments that we're operating in. Hmm.swyx: I do think like, uh, a lot of the last year's, 2025 story was the rise of coding agents and I think [00:29:00] 2026 story is definitely knowledge work agents. Yes. A hundredAaron Levie: percent.swyx: Right. Like that would, and I think open claw core work are just the beginning.Yes. Like it's, the next one's gonna just gonna be absolute craziness.Aaron Levie: It it is. And, and, uh, and it's gonna be, I mean, again, like this is gonna be this, this wave where we, we are gonna try and bring as many of the practices from coding because that, that will clearly be the forefront, which is tell an agent to go do something and has an access to a set of resources.You need to be responsible for reviewing it at the end of the process. That to me is the, is the kind of template that I just think goes across knowledge, work and odd. Cowork is a great example. Open Closet's a great example. You can kind of, sort of see what Codex could become over time. These are some, some really interesting kind of platforms that are emerging.swyx: Okay. Um, I wanted to, we touched on evals a little bit. You had, you had the report that you're gonna go bring up and then I was gonna go into like, uh, boxes, evals, but uh, go ahead. Talk about your genetic search thing.Jeff Huber: Yeah. Mostly I think kinda a few of the insights. It's like number one frontier model is not good at search.Humans have this [00:30:00] natural explore, exploit trade off where we kinda understand like when to stop doing something. Also, humans are pretty good at like forgetting actually, and like pruning their own context, whereas agents are not, and actually an agent in their kind of context history, if they knew something was bad and they even, you could see in the trace the reason you trace, Hey, that probably wasn't a good idea.If it's still in the trace, still in the context, they'll still do it again. Uhhuh. Uh, and so like, I think pruning is also gonna be like, really, it's already becoming a thing, right? But like, letting self prune the con windowsswyx: be a big deal. Yeah. So, so don't leave the mistake. Don't leave the mistake in there.Cut out the mistake but tell it that you made a mistake in the past and so it doesn't repeat it.Jeff Huber: Yeah. But like cut it out so it doesn't get like distracted by it again. ‘cause really, you know, what is so, so it will repeat its mistake just because it's been, it's inswyx: theJeff Huber: context. It'sAaron Levie: in the context so much.That's a few shot example. Even if it, yeah.Jeff Huber: It's like oh thisAaron Levie: is a great thing to go try even ifJeff Huber: it didn't work.Aaron Levie: Yeah,Jeff Huber: exactly.Aaron Levie: SoJeff Huber: there's like a bunch of stuff there. JustAaron Levie: Groundhogs Day inside these models. Yeah. I'm gonna go keep doing the same wrongJeff Huber: thing. Covering sense. I feel like, you know, some creator analogy you're trying like fit a manifold in latent space, which kind is doing break program synthesis, which is kinda one we think about we're doing right.Like, you know, certain [00:31:00] facts might be like sort of overly pitting it. There are certain, you know, sec sectors of latent space and so like plug clean space. Yeah. And, uh, andswyx: so we have a bell, our editor as a bell every time you say that. SoJeff Huber: you have, you have to like remove those, likeswyx: you shoulda a gong like TPN or something.IfJeff Huber: we gong, you either remove those links to like kinda give it the freedom, kind of do what you need to do. So, but yeah. We'll, we'll release more soon. That'sAaron Levie: awesome.Jeff Huber: That'll, that'll be cool.swyx: We're a cerebral podcast that people listen to us and, and sort of think really deep. So yeah, we try to keep it subtle.Okay. We try to keep it.Aaron Levie: Okay, fine.Inside Agent Evalsswyx: Um, you, you guys do, you guys do have EVs, you talked about your, your office thing, but, uh, you've been also promoting APEX agents and complex work. Uh, yeah, whatever you, wherever you wanna take this just Yeah. How youAaron Levie: Apex is, is obviously me, core's, uh, uh, kind of, um, agent eval.We, we supported that by sort of. Opening up some data for them around how we kind of see these, um, data workspaces in, in the, you know, kind of regular economy. So how do lawyers have a workspace? How do investment bankers have a workspace? What kind of data goes into those? And so we, [00:32:00] we partner with them on their, their apex eval.Our own, um, eval is, it's actually relatively straightforward. We have a, a set of, of documents in a, in a range of industries. We give the agent previously did this as a one shot test of just purely the model. And then we just realized we, we need to, based on where everything's going, it's just gotta be more agentic.So now it's a bit more of a test of both our harness and the model. And we have a rubric of a set of things that has to get right and we score it. Um, and you're just seeing, you know, these incredible jumps in almost every single model in its own family of, you know, opus four, um, you know, sonnet four six versus sonnet four five.swyx: Yeah. We have this up on screen.Aaron Levie: Okay, cool. So some, you're seeing it somewhere like. I, I forget the to, it was like 15 point jump, I think on the main, on the overall,swyx: yes.Aaron Levie: And it's just like, you know, these incredible leaps that, that are starting to happen. Um,swyx: and OP doesn't know any, like any, it's completely held out from op.Aaron Levie: This is not in any, there's no public data which has, you know, Ben benefits and this is just a private eval that we [00:33:00] do, and then we just happen to show it to, to the world. Hmm. So you can't, you can't train against it. And I think it's just as representative of. It's obviously reasoning capabilities, what it's doing at, at, you know, kind of test time, compute capabilities, thinking levels, all like the context rot issues.So many interesting, you know, kind of, uh, uh, capabilities that are, that are now improvingswyx: one sector that you have. That's interesting.Industries and Datasetsswyx: Uh, people are roughly familiar with healthcare and legal, but you have public sector in there.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: Uh, what's that? Like, what, what, what is that?Aaron Levie: Yeah, and, and we actually test against, I dunno, maybe 10 industries.We, we end up usually just cutting a few that we think have interesting gains. All extras, won a lot of like government type documents. Um,swyx: what is that? What is it? Government type documents?Aaron Levie: Government filings. Like a taxswyx: return, likeAaron Levie: a probably not tax returns. It would be more of what would go the government be using, uh, as data.So, okay. Um, so think about research that, that type of, of, of data sets. And then we have financial services for things like data rooms and what would be in an investment prospectus. Uhhuh,swyx: that one you can dog food.Aaron Levie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yes. [00:34:00] So, uh, so we, we run the models, um, in now, you know, more of an agent mode, but, but still with, with kinda limited capacity and just try and see like on a, like, for like basis, what are the improvements?And, and again, we just continue to be blown away by. How, how good these models are getting.swyx: Yeah, I mean, I think every serious AI company needs something like that where like, well, this is the work we do. Here's our company eval. Yeah. And if you don't have it, well, you're not a serious AI company.Aaron Levie: There's two dimensions, right?So there's, there's like, how are the models improving? And so which models should you either recommend a customer use, which one should you adopt? But then every single day, we're making changes to our agents. And you need to knowswyx: if you regressed,Aaron Levie: if you know. Yeah. You know, I've been fully convinced that the whole agent observability and eval space is gonna be a massive space.Um, super excited for what Braintrust is doing, excited for, you know, Lang Smith, all the things. And I think what you're going to, I mean, this is like every enter like literally every enterprise right now. It's like the AI companies are the customers of these tools. Every enterprise will have this. Yeah, you'll just [00:35:00] have to have an eval.Of all of your work and like, we'll, you'll have an eval of your RFP generation, you'll have an eval of your sales material creation. You'll have an eval of your, uh, invoice processing. And, and as you, you know, buy or use new agentic systems, you are gonna need to know like, what's the quality of your, of your pipeline.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: Um, so huge, huge market with agent evals.swyx: Yeah.Building the Agent Teamswyx: And, and you know, I'm gonna shout out your, your team a bit, uh, your CTO, Ben, uh, did a great talk with us last year. Awesome. And he's gonna come back again. Oh, cool. For World's Fair.Aaron Levie: Yep.swyx: Just talk about your team, like brag a little bit. I think I, I think people take these eval numbers in pretty charts for granted, but No, there, I mean, there's, there's lots of really smart people at work during all this.Aaron Levie: Biggest shout out, uh, is we have a, we have a couple folks at Dya, uh, Sidarth, uh, that, that kind of run this. They're like a, you know, kind of tag tag team duo on our evals, Ben, our CTO, heavily involved Yasha, head of ai, uh, you know, a bunch of folks. And, um, evals is one part of the story. And then just like the full, you know, kind of AI.An agent team [00:36:00] is, uh, is a, is a pretty, you know, is core to this whole effort. So there's probably, I don't know, like maybe a few dozen people that are like the epicenter. And then you just have like layers and layers of, of kind of concentric circles of okay, then there's a search team that supports them and an infrastructure team that supports them.And it's starting to ripple through the entire company. But there's that kind of core agent team, um, that's a pretty, pretty close, uh, close knit group.swyx: The search team is separate from the infra team.Aaron Levie: I mean, we have like every, every layer of the stack we have to kind of do, except for just pure public cloud.Um, but um, you know, we, we store, I don't even know what our public numbers are in, you know, but like, you can just think about it as like a lot of data is, is stored in box. And so we have, and you have every layer of the, of the stack of, you know, how do you manage the data, the file system, the metadata system, the search system, just all of those components.And then they all are having to understand that now you've got this new customer. Which is the agent, and they've been building for two types of customers in the past. They've been building for users and they've been building for like applications. [00:37:00] And now you've got this new agent user, and it comes in with a difference of it, of property sometimes, like, hey, maybe sometimes we should do embeddings, an embedding based, you know, kind of search versus, you know, your, your typical semantic search.Like, it's just like you have to build the, the capabilities to support all of this. And we're testing stuff, throwing things away, something doesn't work and, and not relevant. It's like just, you know, total chaos. But all of those teams are supporting the agent team that is kind of coming up with its requirements of what, what do we need?swyx: Yeah. No, uh, we just came from, uh, fireside chat where you did, and you, you talked about how you're doing this. It's, it's kind of like an internal startup. Yeah. Within the broader company. The broader company's like 3000 people. Yeah. But you know, there's, there's a, this is a core team of like, well, here's the innovation center.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And like that every company kind of is run this way.Aaron Levie: Yeah. I wanna be sensitive. I don't call it the innovation center. Yeah. Only because I think everybody has to do innovation. Um, there, there's a part of the, the, the company that is, is sort of do or die for the agent wave.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: And it only happens to be more of my focus simply because it's existential that [00:38:00] we get it right.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: All of the supporting systems are necessary. All of the surrounding adjacent capabilities are necessary. Like the only reason we get to be a platform where you'd run an agent is because we have a security feature or a compliance feature, or a governance feature that, that some team is working on.But that's not gonna be the make or break of, of whether we get agents right. Like that already exists and we need to keep innovating there. I don't know what the right, exact precise number is, but it's not a thousand people and it's not 10 people. There's a number of people that are like the, the kind of like, you know, startup within the company that are the make or break on everything related to AI agents, you know, leveraging our platform and letting you work with your data.And that's where I spend a lot of my time, and Ben and Yosh and Diego and Teri, you know, these are just, you know, people that, that, you know, kind of across the team. Are working.swyx: Yeah. Amazing.Read Write Agent WorkflowsJeff Huber: How do you, how do you think about, I mean, you talked a lot about like kinda read workflows over your box data. Yep.Right. You know, gen search questions, queries, et cetera. But like, what about like, write or like authoring workflows?Aaron Levie: Yes. I've [00:39:00] already probably revealed too much actually now that I think about it. So, um, I've talked about whatever,Jeff Huber: whatever you can.Aaron Levie: Okay. It's just us. It's just us. Yeah. Okay. Of course, of course.So I, I guess I would just, uh, I'll make it a little bit conceptual, uh, because again, I've already, I've already said things that are not even ga but, but we've, we've kinda like danced around it publicly, so I, yeah, yeah. Okay. Just like, hopefully nobody watches this, um, episode. No.swyx: It's tidbits for the Heidi engaged to go figure out like what exactly, um, you know, is, is your sort of line of thinking.Sure. They can connect the dots.Aaron Levie: Yeah. So, so I would say that, that, uh, we, you know, as a, as a place where you have your enterprise content, there's a use case where I want to, you know, have an agent read that data and answer questions for me. And then there's a use case where I want the agent to create something.And use the file system to create something or store off data that it's working on, or be able to have, you know, various files that it's writing to about the work it's doing. So we do see it as a total read write. The harder problem has so far been the read only because, because again, you have that kind of like 10 [00:40:00] million to one ratio problem, whereas rights are a lot of, that's just gonna come from the model and, and we just like, we'll just put it in the file system and kinda use it.So it's a little bit of a technically easier problem, but the only part that's like, not necessarily technically hard, it is just like it's not yet perfected in the state of the ecosystem is, you know, building a beautiful PowerPoint presentation. It's still a hard problem for these models. Like, like we still, you know, like, like these formats are just, we're not built for.They'reswyx: working on it.Aaron Levie: They're, they're working on it. Everybody's working on it.swyx: Every launch is like, well, we do PowerPoint now.Aaron Levie: We're getting, yeah, getting a lot, getting a lot of better each time. But then you'll do this thing where you'll ask the update one slide and all of a sudden, like the fonts will be just like a little bit different, you know, on two of the slides, or it moved, you know, some shape over to the left a little bit.And again, these are the kind of things that, like in code, obviously you could really care about if you really care about, you know, how beautiful is the code, but at the end, user doesn't notice all those problems and file creation, the end user instantly sees it. You're [00:41:00] like, ah, like paragraph three, like, you literally just changed the font on me.Like it's a totally different font and like midway through the document. Mm-hmm. Those are the kind of things that you run into a lot of in the, in the content creation side. So, mm-hmm. We are gonna have native agents. That do all of those things, they'll be powered by the leading kind of models and labs.But the thing that I think is, is probably gonna be a much bigger idea over time is any agent on any system, again, using Box as a file system for its work, and in that kind of scenario, we don't necessarily care what it's putting in the file system. It could put its memory files, it could put its, you know, specification, you know, documents.It could put, you know, whatever its markdown files are, or it could, you know, generate PDFs. It's just like, it's a workspace that is, is sort of sandboxed off for its work. People can collaborate into it, it can share with other people. And, and so we, we were thinking a lot about what's the right, you know, kind of way to, to deliver that at scale.Docs Graphs and Founder Modeswyx: I wanted to come into sort of the sort of AI transformation or AI sort of, uh, operations things. [00:42:00] Um, one of the tweets that you, that you wanted to talk about, this is just me going through your tweets, by the way. Oh, okay. I mean, like, this is, you readAaron Levie: one by one,swyx: you're the, you're the easiest guest to prep for because you, you already have like, this is the, this is what I'm interested in.I'm like, okay, well, areAaron Levie: we gonna get to like, like February, January or something? Where are we in the, in the timelines? How far back are we going?swyx: Can you, can you describe boxes? A set of skills? Right? Like that, that's like, that's like one of the extremes of like, well if you, you just turn everything into a markdown file.Yeah. Then your agent can run your company. Uh, like you just have to write, find the right sequence of words toAaron Levie: Yes.swyx: To do it.Aaron Levie: Sorry, isthatswyx: the question? So I think the question is like, what if we documented everything? Yes. The way that you exactly said like,Aaron Levie: yes.swyx: Um, let's get all the Fortune five hundreds, uh, prepared for agents.Yes. And like, you know, everything's in golden and, and nicely filed away and everything. Yes. What's missing? Like, what's left, right? LikeAaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: You've, you've run your company for a decade. LikeAaron Levie: Yeah. I think the challenge is that, that that information changes a week later. And because something happened in the market for that [00:43:00] customer, or us as a company that now has to go get updated, and so these systems are living and breathing and they have to experience reality and updates to reality, which right now is probably gonna be humans, you know, kinda giving those, giving them the updates.And, you know, there is this piece about context graphs as as, uh, that kinda went very viral. Yeah. And I, I, I was like a, i, I, I thought it was super provocative. I agreed with many parts of it. I disagree with a few parts around. You know, it's not gonna be as easy as as just if we just had the agent traces, then we can finally do that work because there's just like, there's so much more other stuff that that's happening that, that we haven't been able to capture and digitize.And I think they actually represented that in the piece to be clear. But like there's just a lot of work, you know, that that has to, you just can't have only skills files, you know, for your company because it's just gonna be like, there's gonna be a lot of other stuff that happens. Yeah. Change over time.Yeah. Most companies are practically apprenticeships.swyx: Most companies are practically apprenticeships. LikeJeff Huber: every new employee who joins the team, [00:44:00] like you span one to three months. Like ramping them up.Aaron Levie: Yes. AllJeff Huber: that tat knowledgeAaron Levie: isJeff Huber: not written down.Aaron Levie: Yes.Jeff Huber: But like, it would have to be if you wanted to like give it to an Asian.Right. And so like that seems to me like to beAaron Levie: one is I think you're gonna see again a premium on companies that can document this. Mm-hmm. Much. There'll be a huge premium on that because, because you know, can you shorten that three month ramp cycle to a two week ramp cycle? That's an instant productivity gain.Can you re dramatically reduce rework in the organization because you've documented where all the stuff is and where the answers are. Can you make your average employee as good as your 90th percentile employee because you've captured the knowledge that's sort of in the heads of, of those top employees and make that available.So like you can see some very clear productivity benefits. Mm-hmm. If you had a company culture of making sure you know your information was captured, digitized, put in a format that was agent ready and then made available to agents to work with, and then you just, again, have this reality of like add a 10,000 person [00:45:00] company.Mapping that to the, you know, access structure of the company is just a hard problem. Is like, is like, yeah, well, you just, not every piece of information that's digitized can be shared to everybody. And so now you have to organize that in a way that actually works. There was a pretty good piece, um, this, this, uh, this piece called your company as a file is a file system.I, did you see that one?swyx: Nope.Aaron Levie: Uh, yes. You saw it. Yeah. And, and, uh, I actually be curious your thoughts on it. Um, like, like an interesting kind of like, we, we agree with it because, because that's how we see the world and, uh,swyx: okay. We, we have it up on screen. Oh,Aaron Levie: okay. Yeah. But, but it's all about basically like, you know, we've already, we, we, we already organized in this kind of like, you know, permission structure way.Uh, and, and these are the kind of, you know, natural ways that, that agents can now work with data. So it's kind of like this, this, you know, kind of interesting metaphor, but I do think companies will have to start to think about how they start to digitize more, more of that data. What was your take?Jeff Huber: Yeah, I mean, like the company's probably like an acid compliant file system.Aaron Levie: Uh,Jeff Huber: yeah. Which I'm guessing boxes, right? So, yeah. Yes.swyx: Yeah. [00:46:00]Jeff Huber: Which you have a great piece on, but,swyx: uh, yeah. Well, uh, I, I, my, my, my direction is a little bit like, I wanna rewind a little bit to the graph word you said that there, that's a magic trigger word for us. I always ask what's your take on knowledge graphs?Yeah. Uh, ‘cause every, especially at every data database person, I just wanna see what they think. There's been knowledge graphs, hype cycles, and you've seen it all. So.Aaron Levie: Hmm. I actually am not the expert in knowledge graphs, so, so that you might need toswyx: research, you don't need to be an expert. Yeah. I think it's just like, well, how, how seriously do people take it?Yeah. Like, is is, is there a lot of potential in the, in the HOVI?Aaron Levie: Uh, well, can I, can I, uh, understand first if it's, um, is this a loaded question in the sense of are you super pro, super con, super anti medium? Iswyx: see pro, I see pros and cons. Okay. Uh, but I, I think your opinion should be independent of mine.Aaron Levie: Yeah. No, no, totally. Yeah. I just want to see what I'm stepping into.swyx: No, I know. It's a, and it's a huge trigger word for a lot of people out Yeah. In our audience. And they're, they're trying to figure out why is that? Because whyAaron Levie: is this such aswyx: hot item for them? Because a lot of people get graph religion.And they're like, everything's a graph. Of course you have to represent it as a graph. Well, [00:47:00] how do you solve your knowledge? Um, changing over time? Well, it's a graph.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And, and I think there, there's that line of work and then there's, there's a lot of people who are like, well, you don't need it. And both are right.Aaron Levie: Yeah. And what do the people who say you don't need it, what are theyswyx: arguing for Mark down files. Oh, sure, sure. Simplicity.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: Versus it's, it's structure versus less structure. Right. That's, that's all what it is. I do.Aaron Levie: I think the tricky thing is, um, is, is again, when this gets met with real humans, they're just going to their computer.They're just working with some people on Slack or teams. They're just sharing some data through a collaborative file system and Google Docs or Box or whatever. I certainly like the vision of most, most knowledge graph, you know, kind of futuristic kind of ways of thinking about it. Uh, it's just like, you know, it's 2026.We haven't seen it yet. Kind of play out as as, I mean, I remember. Do you remember the, um, in like, actually I don't, I don't even know how old you guys are, but I'll for, for to show my age. I remember 17 years ago, everybody thought enterprises would just run on [00:48:00] Wikis. Yeah. And, uh, confluence and, and not even, I mean, confluence actually took off for engineering for sure.Like unquestionably. But like, this was like everything would be in the w. And I think based on our, uh, our, uh, general style of, of, of what we were building, like we were just like, I don't know, people just like wanna workspace. They're gonna collaborate with other people.swyx: Exactly. Yeah. So you were, you were anti-knowledge graph.Aaron Levie: Not anti, not anti. Soswyx: not nonAaron Levie: I'm not, I'm not anti. ‘cause I think, I think your search system, I just think these are two systems that probably, but like, I'm, I'm not in any religious war. I don't want to be in anybody's YouTube comments on this. There's not a fight for me.swyx: We, we love YouTube comments. We're, we're, we're get into comments.Aaron Levie: Okay. Uh, but like, but I, I, it's mostly just a virtue of what we built. Yeah. And we just continued down that path. Yeah.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: And, um, and that, that was what we pursued. But I'm not, this is not a, you know, kind of, this is not a, uh, it'sswyx: not existential for you. Great.Aaron Levie: We're happy to plug into somebody else's graph.We're happy to feed data into it. We're happy for [00:49:00] agents to, to talk to multiple systems. Not, not our fight.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: But I need your answer. Yeah. Graphs or nerd Snipes is very effective nerd.swyx: See this is, this is one, one opinion and then I've,Jeff Huber: and I think that the actual graph structure is emergent in the mind of the agent.Ah, in the same way it is in the mind of the human. And that's a more powerful graph ‘cause it actually involved over time.swyx: So don't tell me how to graph. I'll, I'll figure it out myself. Exactly. Okay. All right. AndJeff Huber: what's yours?swyx: I like the, the Wiki approach. Uh, my, I'm actually

(00:00-40:04) Did it go up? Jackson's new fade's got him lookin' sharp. I-L-L hosting Michigan. You are cool, Doug. Sharing a restroom. Where are all the Blues haters now? Noon thirty. Stop your children from majoring in journalism and do it now! Don't waste your time with 8th grade. Mr. Beast needs to leave these blind people alone. The Ringmaster of that bawdy morning show. Being held accountable for Lent. Watch for wildfires today. The 8PM tip is not the friend of sleep. Workin' 9-5. Is 30A for paupers?(40:12-52:54) Chairman's heading to New Edition in March. Welcome back, Dylan Holloway. Hatty and a helper. Just 12 points out of the wild card and Doug's back in. It's incredible, it's just not erotic. Swimming gerbils. The Venn diagram of stretch marks and VD.(53:04-1:08:26) Was that a Rex Hudler reference? Is this the anthem of the summer? Party Cove. Down on float trips. Jackson would rather lose his feet than wear river shoes. A willing cuckold. TMA Float Trip? The Huzzah is the Destin of Cottleville. Jeremy Rutherford is one of the finest Americans breathing. No rules on the river.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this heartfelt episode of Whole Hearted Leadership Coaching Conversations, host Lantz Howard sits down with longtime friend Dr. Jay Raines, CEO of LeadersQ and author of the new book Culture Brand: A Proven Framework for Building a Culture That Wins.Jay traces his path from nonprofit leadership and launching a leadership development firm in India (working with Toyota and startups) to returning to the U.S. in 2016 and growing LeadersQ—where he and his team have delivered thousands of coaching hours to over 80 Chick-fil-A owner-operators and hundreds of other leaders.The conversation blends personal vulnerability and practical wisdom:Protecting marriage through weekly “Sunday night board meetings”The family-balanced, multi-year journey of writing his bookHow running brought mental clarity—and how a shattered shin during a half-marathon forced him to confront absence of presence, learn dependence, and cultivate peace and a victor mindsetJay unveils his Culture Brand framework—a Venn diagram that balances three essentials:Results — excellence, accountability, goal-driven performanceTeaming — collaboration, encouragement, developing othersCharacter — coachability, dependability, ownership, attitudeCharacter serves as the “glue,” integrating results and relationships. He illustrates this with stories from introducing servant leadership in hierarchical Indian business cultures and real client transformations.The episode closes with a striking metaphor: the Dodda Alada Mara (Big Banyan Tree) in Bangalore—a single tree spanning acres, thriving through interconnected “feeder” trunks long after the original center died—symbolizing cultures that endure and scale beyond the founder.Key TakeawaysGuard sacred relational time (weekly spouse check-ins) as a core leadership habit.Physical discipline sharpens mental clarity and reveals blind spots—suffering often exposes where we're not truly present.Lead from an “empty cup” (building relational trust) rather than a “full cup” (relying on authority)—it multiplies impact through abundance instead of scarcity.Assess your team across Results, Teaming, and Character; celebrate strengths, but transparently tackle weaknesses—starting with yourself.Intentionally build cultures that scale and leave a living legacy.--Learn more about coaching with Lantz Howard and discover how you can lead wholeheartedly in your true identity.

This is my interview with the team at Venn Brewing in South Minneapolis.  Venn has coffee, craft beer, and THC beverages all served in a safe and inclusive taproom dedicated to providing people a place to foster and find community.  It is a quintessential third space.  This interview talks about how Venn Brewing started and showcases the passion behind the beverages and smiles that you are sure to find in the taproom.  Cheers! If you liked the show and want to support the A One Pint Stand, consider joining our Patreon.  There is some great bonus content that our Patreon supporters enjoy that give a fun peek behind the scenes.

In episode 46, Johnny talks to musician and podcaster Oscar Davies-Kay. You may know Oscar from his many Auckland-based indie bands, such as Rackets and Water, or from his weekly podcast Fear, Guilt & Agriculture where he interviews movers and shakers from Auckland's vibrant cultural scene. Johnny and Oscar's chat includes a spoiler-filled look at Marty Supreme and the films of the Safdie Brothers, they take a deep dive into the Venn diagram of disc golf, indie rock and craft beer, and they take a look at Sarah Connor's sex face and wonder what she really thinks the future smells like.This conversation was recorded face to face in mid-February of 2026.You can listen to Peter Serafinowicz's brilliant A Full Day In The Life here: https://m.soundcloud.com/bren-murphy/a-full-day-in-the-life-by-peter-serafinowicz (it might require you to download the Soundcloud app, but it's worth it).Thanks to James Van As who wrote and performed the brilliant podcast music (check out James' ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Loco Looper⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ game) and to Willow Van As who designed the amazing artwork and provided general podcast support.You can contact My Movie DNA on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter @mymovieDNA or email mymovieDNA@gmail.com.Check out Johnny's new podcast series, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠500 Films: A Journey Through Genre Cinema⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, available wherever you get your podcasts. 

You're listening to Burnt Toast! We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay.Today our conversation is with Kim Baldwin, the newest member of the Burnt Toast team.Kim is the former digital editor for the Nashville Scene. Her culture writing can be found in places like the Nashville Scene, Parnassus Books' Musings and on her Substack. Kim has interviewed folks like Sarah Sherman, Trixie Mattel, John Waters, Samantha Irby and Tess Holliday.Originally a blogger, Kim started The Blonde Mule in 2006 and later turned her popular interview series “These My Bitches” into a podcast called Ladyland. Kim writes a weekly newsletter about books and pop culture, teaches social media classes and is a frequent conversation partner for author events in Nashville.If you enjoy this conversation, a paid subscription is the best way to support our work!Join Burnt Toast

If you would rather not listen to the guys’ banter about Jacob's upcoming move to Iowa, Jim’s garden planning, and a listener correction about the word “imbibe” you can skip ahead to (33:30). Chris's SummaryJim and I are joined by Jacob Vonloh as we discuss using Buffered ETFs prompted by a Morningstar article titled “Buffer ETFs Are Not for Everyone.” We explain how defined outcome ETFs use options to provide an explicit amount of loss protection over a given period while limiting potential gains, and we outline why these products are generally suboptimal for long-term investors. We then connect this to investment positioning, focusing on risk capacity, distribution planning, and why dollars assigned to delay-period Minimum Dignity Floor and Go-Go spending may require a degree of principal protection. Jim's “Pithy” SummaryChris and I are joined by Jacob Vonloh as we take a listener-submitted Morningstar article—“Buffer ETFs are not for Everyone”—and use it to kick off what is going to be a series on principal protection. Morningstar does a very good job in this article laying out what it likes about buffered products, and it also makes some excellent points on where these types of products would fit and where they don't fit. They're not for everybody, but they could be of interest in certain cases, in a certain application, and we're going to share how we use them. What I want to do in this series is broaden the conversation. Buffered ETFs are just one type of principal protected product. There are multiple tools in that category, and we're going to walk through where they fit into distribution planning. As you transition from accumulation into what I call the Venn diagram phase, and ultimately into distribution, you have to stop thinking of your portfolio as one big portfolio and start thinking in terms of smaller portfolios—investment positions—based on assigned spending. Dollars earmarked for a legacy position can be invested aggressively. Dollars earmarked for immediate spending—like the Go-Go reserve or the reserve for your MDF—need a degree of principal protection. This ties directly into the Secure Retirement Income Process and the See Through Portfolio and how we navigate asset positioning in retirement. Show Notes: Morningstar Buffered ETFs article The post Using Buffered ETFs: EDU #2607 appeared first on The Retirement and IRA Show.

Nick celebrates the launch of A Year of Ikigai and read the book's introduction, separating myth from meaning and showing how purpose lives in daily moments. Nick shares why Ikigai is felt more than defined, and how small sources of value build a life worth living.This episode covers:• what ikigai means in simple, daily terms• why popular Western takes miss the point• the problem with the four-circle Venn diagram• the kanji roots pointing to protection and beauty• intrinsic values like hope, growth and social ties• personal journey from Tokyo spark to research• sources of ikigai across roles, work, hobbies and memory• ikigai-kan as the felt sense that life is worth living• book launch timing across regions and preorderYou can actually pre order the book on Amazon, but we hope you find it in your local bookstore

GLP-1s like Ozempic and Wegovy are dominating the conversation around weight loss — but what happens when the prescription ends? In this episode, Shana sits down with Lindsay Venn, PA-C, RD, and Clinical Director of Insulin IQ, to unpack how to reverse metabolic dysfunction without relying on lifelong medication. They explore why insulin resistance is the real root issue, how to safely taper off GLP-1s without losing your progress, what labs can reveal your true healing status, and why many chronic diseases — including cancer — are deeply tied to your metabolism. This episode is a must-listen if you're struggling with fatigue, weight, hormonal chaos, or feeling like your body just isn't responding anymore. What We Covered: Why GLP-1s may help but not heal your metabolism The most important labs to run before tapering off Common mistakes when weaning off Ozempic & Wegovy How insulin, mitochondria, and inflammation connect to cancer The role of fasting insulin, meal timing, and light in true healing The #1 lifestyle shift to calm your hormones and burn fat naturally Links & Resources: Learn more about Lindsay: vennintegrativemedicine.com Reverse insulin resistance, fatty liver, and cholesterol issues: https://shanahussinwellness.com/fattyliverguide/ Join my 90-Day Insulin Reset: https://shanahussinwellness.com/programs-courses/reset/ Connect with Shana: Instagram: @shana.hussin.rdn Facebook: Shana Hussin Wellness

In this episode, Lesley breaks down self-love beyond surface-level self-care and explains why it's foundational to confidence, boundaries, resilience, and healthy relationships. She explores why self-love is often misunderstood, why it can feel so hard to practice, and how societal expectations shape the way women treat themselves. This conversation sets the foundation for a two-part series, with practical tools and practices coming in the next episode. If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:What self-love actually means beyond self-care and affirmations.How self-love differs from narcissism and self-interest.The importance of self-love in building confidence and resilience.How self-love strengthens confidence through self-commitment.The impact of societal pressure and past experiences on self-love.Episode References/Links:Episode 153: Tanya Dalton - https://beitpod.com/ep153Learning To Love Yourself by Gay Hendricks - https://a.co/d/9r14YqcEpisode 628: Frances Naudé - https://beitpod.com/ep628Episode 610: Amy Ledin - https://beitpod.com/ep610What Happened to You? by Oprah Winfrey & Bruce D. Perry - https://a.co/d/fNSEjJvSubmit your wins or questions - https://beitpod.com/questions If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Lesley Logan 0:00  So what the therapist and psychologists and brain people are saying is it is a foundation for a happy and fulfilled life. What I interpret that as we can't be it till we see it and just sort of like ourselves, like what I don't want you to do is not have that self-love that's like true self-love. Lesley Logan 0:20  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.  Lesley Logan 1:03  Hey, Be It babe, how are you? Oh my gosh. Okay, so we're doing a two episode series on self-love and a two episode series on burnout, and these kind of came out of doing this series on the habits. And, you know, we've had so many amazing guests on the pod, and it made me think of like they talk about how you have to love yourself, like, I can't even tell you how I probably should have looked it up. How many episodes we have had guests tell us, like, love yourself. Like, you have to have, like, love for yourself. And, like, it got me thinking, like, you know? And you're like, yeah, yeah. Like, you think you know what that means. And then you're like, wait, what does it mean? Like, what? What is self-love, you know? And is it important? And what if we don't do it? And how is it different than burnout, and how is it different than a habit, and how is it different than, like, all these other things. And so I kind of wanted to do just like, a whole episode on, like, what is self-love? Why do we struggle with it? Why do we need it? It's important, right? So we're going to just like, kind of dive in. And if you think I know it already, sure, you can skip this episode and go the next one, which is going to be the tools and the tips and the tricks and the mantras, but I hope we can have, like, a conversation. I mean, obviously you're not here, but like, you can talk in the car together, of like, what, what does this mean? And maybe you have different interpretations, right? Also, in the next episode, I'll share some of the ones that you guys have sent about that with here. I think you guys sent some for self-love and some that kind of go with burnout. And so I'm excited about it. Lesley Logan 2:20  Okay, so first of all, here is the dry like what the professionals psychology, things like that have to say. Self-love is a state of appreciation for oneself that involves prioritizing your physical, psychological and spiritual wellbeing with the same kindness and compassion you would offer a loved one, I would also say you'd offer anyone, because I see a lot of people offer strangers more of these things than they do themselves. It includes accepting yourself blahs and all setting healthy boundaries, practicing self-care and treating yourself with respect. This is not the same as narcissism, which involves excessive self-interest, but rather a fundamental regard of your own happiness and worth. And I think, like, if we could just, like, leave that right there. You know, like, there's so many things in that it's like, oh, that's what self, like, it's not the same as like, I mean, yes, there are some tools I'll share that like, about loving yourself, like I love myself, but like, actually, these are the ways you can be in self-love. You can be prioritizing your physical, psychological, spiritual well being with the same kindness and passion you would offer a loved one. Another way of saying this that I found on the line was be the adult you always needed to yourself. Tell yourself the words the younger version of you always needed to hear. And that might mean you have to go learn about, like, reparenting right there. And that would be like a therapist, right? So hopefully, like, if any of these things spark your interest, like you are working with a professional therapist of some kind in that way, but like, especially if it involves, like, the reparenting of yourself, and I think a lot of us have to go through that. And by the way, I know a lot of moms are listening, and including mine, like, it's not that you didn't do a great job. You did the best you could, some people, right? And also, there's still things that happen in our lives outside of what our parents did or didn't do that, like are part of what we brought up to ourselves as an adult. And there's stories that we tell ourselves, and those all affect how we treat ourselves, psychologically, physically, spiritually, right? Okay, so just to make sure we are saying things in the same way, same thing in different ways, so that if you have a different way of viewing these words, you get an education around self-love today, here's another thing. So this means self-love can include self-acceptance, so recognizing accepting both your strengths and your weakness without harsh self-criticism. And I think this is the hardest for me, so I'll just give anecdotes to each of these, because I think that at least I like that when people do it. So I think it's easy for us to accept the good parts about ourselves, but then we're really harsh about the not so great parts, and again, not that you like don't try to better what those are. But I think a lot of people who are attracted to the show because I do the same thing, like, we like attract alike is we are then constantly trying to better the things that we don't like about ourselves. Great. Do that, and also don't be harsh, right? There's a difference between a harsh self-criticism and an awareness of things that could be better, but still loving yourself despite of or in spite of that, right? Self-compassion. Self-love is self-compassion. Treating yourself with kindness, especially during difficult times. I definitely struggle with compassion for myself when I kind of do the thing I know I shouldn't have done at the time, and then, you know, you're like, I shouldn't procrastinate right now, and then you do and then, like, everything blows up in your face. I will go into a harsh criticism. I will have a lack of self-compassion. All of that affects the self-love. And when you don't love yourself, it makes it really difficult for you to show up as the highest version of yourself, that's for sure. And it also it makes it really hard for us to accept love and support from others. It's almost hard for us to receive compassion for other people, because we're not giving it to ourselves, and so we don't even recognize compassion when it comes from someone else, right? Self-care is self-love. Actively taking care of your physical, emotional, mental health through actions like eating well, exercising, gain enough rest, and engage in activities you enjoy. And by the way, when it's when I say, whenever you hear me say, eating well or healthy, I think you need to understand like fueling yourself appropriately, right? What allows you to have the best sleep of your life? What allows you to do the movement practice you like, what allows you to do the life you want to live? So there's no such thing as good or bad food or good or bad bodies, right? So, but what are the things that make you feel well? Are you eating foods that you know are going to make you feel like crap? For example, I love Kettle Corn. I really love Kettle Corn, and I can have a handful of Kettle Corn, no problem. But I can't stop with a handful of Kettle Corn most of the time. And so when I am kind of oftentimes being a little too in my head, being a little hard on myself, like having a stressful day, of course, I had to have more Kettle Corn, because why not just really make the already hard day I'm having even harder. And when I have half a bag of Kettle Corn, I feel like my stomach hurts. I have like my skin crawls, and I have the worst night's sleep, right? Well, in doing that, I am not giving myself the self-care that I need, because I'm now affecting tonight's sleep, which means I am not loving myself for the whole day and night, which is going to affect tomorrow, right? So getting enough rest is self-care. That is self-love. And I get really I in researching this, I was really excited, because I find myself, when I lead my retreats, or I lead some of these workshops that I do, like talking to people about, like, why it's so important that they go for a walk in the morning, if that's what they want to do, they want to walk in the morning. Why is it so important? Why is it so important they do Pilates? Because doing activities that help you sleep well, move well, be pain free, are all an act of self-love, and every time I see people not doing it in modernist oftentimes for others, what I'm seeing in the room is like a lack of self-love, and it's limiting how much you can love others. I'm just gonna say it, right? Lesley Logan 8:22  Okay. Boundary setting. So knowing your limits and saying no when necessary to protect your well being like setting boundaries and upholding those boundaries is self-love. We had a great episode about boundaries with Tanya Dalton. I still really love and recommend that episode. It's so, so good. And what I will say is I know that I come across as someone who is like the strictest of boundaries. I'm gonna tell you right now, I still feel bad when I have to uphold those boundaries, but I know I have to uphold the boundaries because I love myself so much. I know I cannot. I cannot go beyond my limits and still be the person I need to be tomorrow for all the people, right? I will let more people down tomorrow if I let go of my boundaries today, right? All right. Self-respect is self-love. Hvonoring your needs and not sacrificing your well being to please others. Self-respect is self-love. And I I think like we can all nod along and then go, ooh, am I respecting myself? And I will say, the older I get, the easier self-respect is for me to do. The younger I was, the harder it was, right? Because there's like, things that you're like, trying to prove, and you don't want to be liked, and there's all these different things. And so I would just say, like, you know, please explore self-respect with yourself, because if you don't have that, that's like your boundary setting, your self-care, your compassion, your acceptance, I think, is all going to fall under, like the actions you take to respect yourself and then positive self-talk, but consciously replacing negative self-talk with more positive and supportive affirmations. And by the way, if you listen to habit series, it's really hard to do. It's really hard to replace the negative self-talk with positive words, because you have to first, then be aware of the negative self-talk, and you have to, like, get quicker at catching it. So it might take you a whole day right now to catch yourself being an ass to yourself. And then as you are like, okay, I want to have a better, positive self-talk, self-respect, self-compassion, self-care. So that's acceptance, blah, blah, blah. So then maybe you take some of the tools that we're doing, and all of a sudden you realize, whoa, I caught myself talking negatively to myself in half a day. Well, most people are gonna get mad at themselves it took half a day. What you have to do is actually celebrate that it only took half a day, and it can get better. Then it's gonna take you three hours, and then it's gonna take you an hour, and this can take you 30 minutes, and take you three minutes, and it's gonna take you three seconds, that can take years. So give yourself the space and grace and have some positive self-talk and find ways to replace negative things, or maybe tell a friend, like, if you hear me talking about it myself, I need you to do something. Lesley Logan 10:43  In Cambodia, we have a lot of girls who are apologizing all the time. So as soon as anyone said, I'm sorry, we'd also scream, not helpful, not helpful. You know, and it was, it became something we laughed about. It was so funny, we actually realized, like, wow, a lot of times when I'm saying I'm sorry, I really mean, excuse me, right? And that's a better way to replace it. Okay, so why does this matter? Like, why is it important to have any self-love? So what the therapists and psychologists and brain people are saying is, it is a foundation for a happy and fulfilled life, right?Lesley Logan 11:14  So what I interpret that is we can't be it till we see it and just sort of like ourselves. Like, what I don't want you to do is not have that self-love, that's like true self-love, and then envision a woman who you think is going to be the thing you should be being it until you see and you go and be it till you see it, but she also doesn't love herself. Like, that'd mean you get all the destination, and you didn't, you didn't make sure it was like, you know what I mean? Like you just become more of something else, but you're not in love with yourself along the way. And so I definitely want to make sure that as you be it till you see it, part of that is loving yourself like how and maybe that's your work this year is like, I'm gonna be it till I see it in self-love, right? Maybe it's not just like a whole person. Maybe it's an area. Lesley Logan 11:57  Self-love increases self-confidence, self-worth and resilience. And I was like, oh, that's so of course, like, yes, I believe that confidence comes from keeping the commitments you said you would to yourself, okay? It's very easy for a lot of you to keep commitments to other people. So I was very specific, keeping the commitments to yourself that you said you would. That is where self-confidence comes from. But to do that, you have to have all these different areas of self-compassion, self-care, self-love, boundaries, right, self-respect. So when you have self-love, it increases your self-confidence, your self-worth and resilience. And I was like, yes, oh my gosh, that is such an easier way of getting towards having self-confidence, right? It's loving yourself. It leads to healthy relationships with others. You know, we often attract people who mirror a lot about how we feel about ourselves. And like, oh my God, isn't it so embarrassing to, like, look back at the boyfriends you have when you're younger? You're like, what were you thinking? But also, if you think about, like, wow, that's the amount of love I was willing to give myself from myself. So of course, that's what I was willing to accept from somebody else you know. And so if you are in some ways trying to be it till you see it in having a loving, wonderful relationship, I would definitely do some inventory and some self-reflection around what is going on with your self-love. And then another thing of why it's so important is a lack of self-love can contribute to feelings of inadequacy, anxiety, depression and burnout. We're gonna have a series on burnout. So of course, this is going to have an overlap with that.Lesley Logan 13:23  But, you know, I have always said, like, burnout happens when, in the Pilates industry, it happens a lot when people are under-charging and over, you know, working and, yeah, they did that because they have a lack of self-love. Because if you had self-love, you would be charging your worth and keeping your boundaries. Right? Like, a lack of self-love can contribute to feeling of inadequacy. And so like, with all the people with self, imposter syndrome, and I know there's people saying imposter syndrome is, like, made up, but also, like, sure, maybe it is. And also, there's a ton of people who feel inadequate, have anxiety, which is basically fear, okay? Gay Hendricks, in his book says anxiety and fear are the same thing. And depression, well, of course, I mean, I think you can love yourself and still have a low day, so I'm not going to say you won't ever be depressed, but it is going to contribute to those feelings. And so I do wonder, like, if the more we have some self-respect, self-compassion, have positive self-talk, how that is going to improve our feelings of around us, like, does it actually mean that your imposter syndrome just becomes less and less and maybe you only feel it when you're brand new at something? I believe that's it. That's why self I think self-love is even more important than I thought when we started doing the series. Like, I was like, oh yeah, of course, we have to have self-love. Let's figure out how to help people do that. And then I'm like, oh my God, this is so the most important fucking thing we can all be doing. Lesley Logan 14:41  Okay. So what can self-love look like? So some of this stuff is going to sound redundant, but again, I'm saying it all because I think we need to hear the same things in different ways. So some of you might be like, oh, got it. I gotta work on my boundaries. I gotta work on my self-talk. Gone, done. You don't need any more. And some of us are like, okay, I need all these things. But what does it look like? And this is where I am always like, okay, tell me the how. I got it. I'm in. I love it all. I co-sign. Tell me how, right. I'm a how girl. So what does self-love mean to you, and what does it look like? So it can mean talking to and about yourself with love. So, like, one of the things you could do is like, notice this week how you talk about yourself. Are you talking about all the things you messed up when you tell a friend about how the day went? Are you talking about how you, like, did something really amazing, right? Talking to and about yourself with love. I walk around this house and I like, do different things, like, oh my God, wow, I just connected that to that I'm so amazing. Like, I get really pleased with myself when, like, I had to move my Reformer the other day without Brad and I took the carriage out, stood inside the frame, squatted down, like I was doing a little like deadlift, and then, like, move the frame and put the thing out. I'm like, so strong. I'm so glad I could be independent. Like that, that is an act of self love, that kind of talk, right? So you, these are, like, there's little things you can do that in every single day, little ways you can do that in every single day. Lesley Logan 16:01  Prioritizing yourself. That self-love looks like prioritizing yourself. Self-love looks like giving yourself a break from self-judgment. So maybe you start to notice you're judging yourself, and you're like, I gotta replace it with positive words. What if you just didn't? What if you just stopped just to go, okay, I'm gonna set a timer for 15 minutes and go do something else, think of something else, like, take a break from the judgment. Okay, maybe it means getting rid of mirrors for a bit. Or, you know, things like, if that, where in your life are you actually judging yourself the most? How can you like? Is there a way you can take a pause from that project? Is there a way that you can set yourself up for success? You're actually like, get like, you can actually give yourself a break from the self-judgment. Self-love can look like trusting yourself, trusting yourself. I think a lot of us get really excited about a decision we make, and then we ask other people how they feel about that, and then we change our decision based on others. And look, I change my decisions a lot based on input from others when I'm like working on a project with the team, whatever. But like, that's not what I'm talking about. Yes, if someone gives you better information, you should bring that in and but also, if you know that you need to sleep for seven hours, and other people are like, oh, I can't believe you only need to sleep for seven hours, trusting yourself is way better than going, hmm, I guess I'm wrong. Maybe. I mean, they said I should sleep for eight hours. If you know, what is it you need. Gotta trust yourself, right? Like, that's some of the best things you can do. I found, like, you know, Brad and I've been like, advocating for our health a lot lately. And one of the things I've noticed that when I talk to my doctors in a way that has I'm advocating myself. I have the paperwork to say, like, when I sleep this many hours a night, I feel like X, Y and Z in the morning. And when I sleep for this many hours a night, I feel like this. And when I do blah, blah, blah, I feel like this. When I do this, when I talk like that, they don't doubt me. They actually go, okay, so what I'm hearing is blank, and what that sounds like is when you do X, Y and Z. So because I'm trusting myself, I'm not going, you know, I mean, when I sleep this many hours, I feel the best when I sleep this many hours, I don't like, I'm not doubting myself, I'm trusting myself. And then, therefore, my doctor and I can work as a team together. And so what I'm saying is, like, oftentimes we don't give off that we trust ourselves. And so other people feel like, Oh, you're asking a question you want me to put in. You want me to like, I'm going to give you some suggestions. And then that doesn't help with the trust, right? Self-love looks like being true to yourself, being true to yourself. And, you know, that goes, that goes hand in hand with one thing we're gonna talk about in a second. So I'll tell that's right when I get to that one. But I just want to say, like, being true to yourself. So if you don't, if you don't know how to be true to yourself, I really need you to take some time. Frances Naudé's episode is around the same one dropping, and she talks a lot about how, like, you have to live at your highest self. And she has some tips on like, how do you be true to yourself? How do you trust yourself? Being nice to yourself is a way to look at self-love. So if you have self-love, you are nice to yourself. You're wondering what self-love looks like, be nice to yourself. What do you if you know you need to get up and go get a glass of water, go do that. That is being nice to yourself, that is listening to yourself, is trusting yourself, right? I used to like, okay, so when I was teaching Pilates, I would go to the bathroom between every single client. Now that I work at a desk most of the time, I have found myself falling into that ADHD thing where I just keep working until like, oh my God, like, I finally have earned the right to go to the bathroom. And someone like voted me and going, ADHD, ladies, you don't need to earn the right to go to the bathroom. Just go to the bathroom. Being nice to yourself is going to the bathroom. It's just like getting up, hitting pause, and that is self-love. That is self-love. Okay, so do you see how, like, all of a sudden, self love becomes so much easier? Yes, some of these things are harder to do, break, taking a break from self-judgment, especially if you've been doing it for your whole life. But you can also just simply be nice to yourself, and that could kick off the self-love ball and domino. Lesley Logan 20:00  All right, setting healthy boundaries. So, at the be true to yourself. One of the things I know about me is I do need time alone. And we had my in-laws came to visit. Was so much fun, but also, like with them here, it meant that I didn't have a lot of time by myself, and so I didn't talk to any of my friends or other family members during that time, not because I didn't want to, but because I knew that I needed the times I could have alone, I needed them alone. Being true to myself was making sure I had time as an introvert to recharge and refuel, and it meant I needed to keep my boundaries up and not give in to oh my God, I feel so bad. I haven't talked to that person. Of course I feel bad. I'm still gonna feel bad, but also I'm not. I can't feel bad and tired and shitty. So loving myself, being true to myself, understanding like, yes, it is. I'm sure some people think it's weird and annoying. I need to have so much time by myself, but I need to do that so I can be there for others, and setting healthy boundaries around that is important. We also, then had a friend who needed to use our guest bedroom 48 hours later. And of course I wanted to help go, yeah, stay as long as you want. No, we just had too many in our, we had two people in our house for 10 days. We have people coming to our house next week. I can't do that, so here's what I can do. And do you want to know something? They're okay with it. They're totally fine with it. They didn't go, oh, what a bitch, like, what a bitch. No, because they, too, have healthy boundaries because they love themselves. So self-love is setting healthy boundaries and keeping them. Lesley Logan 21:24  Forgiving yourself when you aren't being true or nice to yourself. So I love that this is like at the end, because it's like, oh my God, I, like, by time you hear all this, you'd be like, well, here's all the different ways I didn't love myself today. So, forgive yourself, and that is an act of self-love for you today, and you'll just do better the next time, right? So, and I think that this is a really good, like, maybe thing to write down or think about it, just remember that self-love isn't just about loving the easy parts of ourselves. It means loving every single part of ourselves. So even the inner critic, like, in fact, maybe the inner critic just needs to be loved a little bit, right? So, why is it so hard? Why is it so hard to love ourselves? I feel like, oh my God, it's actually just like Lesley just gave out so many different ways I could love myself and it should be so easy. Like, why is it so hard? So this is, well, the patriarchy, we're just gonna say. But seriously, women often struggle with self-love due to societal expectations to prioritize others. Perfectionism is another reason why we have a struggle with self-love and being bombarded with unrealistic beauty and life standards. So it is hard to love ourselves when every single time you look in the magazines and on TV and all this, you're being shown what the standard for beauty and being a wonderful woman is, and you feel like you aren't able to match and meet those so of course, it's hard. You won't. It's like, how you have to like, I mean, if the resiliency you have to have to like, see those people and go, I don't need to look like them, and I'm still amazing. That takes time. So if you are struggling with comparing yourself to what society says is what we're should be living up to, you are not alone. It takes a long time it and what I would say is, like, go back to the things that we did, and what is something easy you can do. Because as you start to build your self love muscle, becomes easier to not fall for the expectations of society, which, by the way, isn't going to be there for you, right? Even if you reach whatever they think the bar is, they're gonna move the bar anyways. So past negative experiences make it hard to love ourselves, right, such as criticism, trauma, feeling undervalued, these things can also deeply impact self-worth. Lesley Logan 23:22  So like, let's be real. Who, the stories that you got from people who were around you in your life at pivotal times, and the experiences you had, those things can affect you, especially if you had a family member or friend who told you you weren't beautiful, you weren't lovable, you weren't pretty. If you heard that and then something like, hey, I feel that, and I really do hope that you are not just doing self-reflection, but actively seeking someone who can help you, because you are so worthy of self-love, and as you've already learned, self-love is so important when it comes to all the other things you want to have in your life, it'd be really hard to have an amazing, wonderful partner who loves you if you don't love yourself, because it's gonna be hard for you to feel and believe that love is true. I'm not saying you can't attract it or that you don't have that. I'm saying like it's just going to be hard for you to believe that it's real and true. Right now I want you to have that, okay? Additionally, cultural conditioning can teach women to be quiet, put others first, and feel guilty for practicing self-care, making self-love seem selfish or out of reach. And I will say that this last part is really important to me. As a woman business owner who serves female mostly, and a few good men clients in our membership, it's online. Women will cancel the membership because of all the demands on them that they feel from others, and they have a hard time putting themselves first because they feel selfish or indulgent or that, you know, I just like, you know, I can't do all of it, so if that's why I do none of it, you know, or I'm only using five minutes at a time, so I should cancel this. The male members never do that. That's not why they quit. They quit because, like, oh, I'm taking three months off for. Surgery, that's when they quit. So I say that because, ladies, we have to take the perfectionism off the table. Love ourselves, be proud of the few minutes we do do and then prioritize those. It is essential. And if you didn't listen to the episode with Amy Ledin, the most recent one we had in December, go listen to that. She's a mom of five with cancer, and she's kicking ass, and she prioritizes her movement. And, you know, I'm not saying that you have to do everything like she does, but I want you to have an example of people can be busy, can have hard lives, and still can love themselves enough to put themselves first, right? Lesley Logan 25:35  All right. So the other things, obviously, we have societal, cultural pressures. So there's prioritizing others. Women are often socialized to be caregivers. Definitely have to be the caregivers. They're often because we are still paid less. They're often the ones that need to leave the workplace, if that's what's needed in a family, someone gets sick. We obviously know we have a lot of women who listen to the show, who are in the sandwich generation, and so it's really, it really does mean that you put other people first, and over time, that means maybe not loving yourself as much as you could be, and that is affecting other areas in your life and your belief in yourself and what you can do and what's possible. So I'm not saying don't take care of others. What I'm saying is you have to prioritize yourself first and then take care of others. Because truly, your ability to care for others isn't a Venn diagram of what you can actually do, and where I see a lot of people struggle with that, we'll talk more about it in burnout series when they give more, right? So love yourself enough. Prioritize yourself over others. Other reasons why it's really hard for us as women is unrealistic expectations. We talked about that with society, the standard of beauty, blah, blah, blah. Oh my God, the motherhood bull crap. Oh my, the Instagram on, on, you know, all this trad wife stuff like, if that's what you want, that's what you want, that's great. But ladies, you do not have to be that as a mom, you can be whatever you want, right? So what are these unrealistic expectations people are putting on us suck? So what are the expectations you want for yourself? I can be true to that. That's self-love, right? And then obviously society has this immense pressure for us to be perfect. The past experience, in personal history, in your childhood experience, so remember, that's the childhood experience you had. Those like early experience with caregivers and emotional neglect or inconsistent caregiving, that can lead to a belief that you're not inherently lovable, which makes it really hard to love yourself. So a great book to explore, this is, What Happened to You? I love this book is with Oprah and Dr. Bruce Perry, and I think it's a really great way to have empathy for yourself, but also empathy for others. So obviously, so many people experience trauma, especially as children, that can affect your ability to love yourself. There could have been a life event. You could have gone self-love all day long, and then a life event happened. And so one, be, have so much compassion for yourself. And then let's figure out where, where that happened, and what are these things that we talked about so far that could help you work on that self-love? Feeling undervalued. So you know, when we're underpaid or under supported, or we're not aware of our worth and demanding that because we don't have our boundaries up, we're gonna feel undervalued. That's going to affect our self-love, right? That's really hard. So, and then there's internalized beliefs, the shoulds the guilt or the need for external validation. So if you are someone who is needing external validation to love yourself, it is going to be hard, right? So we do have to figure out a way around that. That might be you have to do something within therapy to do that, because many women tie their worth to external achievements and validation they receive from others, rather than internal sense of self-acceptance. And so if you don't have an internal sense of self-acceptance. It's hard to have that self-compassion, and if you're always waiting for someone else to love you before you love yourself, it makes it really hard to receive that love, right? Lesley Logan 28:28  So okay, in the next episode, we're going to go around some tools for self-love. There's some great books that I want to give you. There's some mantras I want to give you, but what I'd love for you to do as your homework, as I would just love for you to like reflect upon this, maybe listen to it again. What were the things that stood out in the self-love that surprised you, or maybe good and you're like, oh, that's, that's where I'm struggling right now. I would love to know, I'd love for you to share it. You can share it via beitpod.com/questions. You can bring it as a you know, just share that. You can leave it in a review. You can comment on this video on YouTube or on our Instagram, because I would love to hear like what a part of self-love is easy for you, what part is a challenge for you. And by the way, my ADHD ladies, it is harder for us because internalized negative feedback. Women with ADHD may have a lifetime of being misunderstood or criticized for symptoms leading them to believe that they are inherently flawed, and so a lot of women with ADHD are diagnosed late, if at all, and so they're often like, there's like, oh my God, there's something wrong with me. I don't I don't fit in the way people do, and so they have a hard time with self-love. So hi, my ADHD ladies, this part, I wanted to make sure you knew it. It can be harder for us, right? Blaming oneself for failures like because there's a tendency to attribute failures to internal flaws and successes to luck, personal factors, which damages self-esteem, which makes it hard to have self-love. There's a hightened sensitivity to rejection. So women with ADHD are often more highly sensitive to feedback or rejection, leading them to interpret things more negatively. And personally, I see you, and that means it's harder to have self-compassion, right? So, and then also, women with ADHD, often go through a shame cycle. This sensitivity can lead to a cycle of shame and self-criticism, making it difficult to accept strengths or celebrate achievements, which is why we have a wins day. We win on Friday, like we have a wins day, win, W-I-N-S day on purpose, because I need that for me to keep having the self-love it because it's hard for me, like it's hard for me to go ever, like with the ADHD, with all that stuff, it's like, can be so hard to celebrate things until they're done. So I purposely have this in place so that there is a celebration of wins every single Friday for all of us, so that we can have, maybe we can get rid of that shame cycle just a little bit right, and have more ease and self-love. And then lastly, societal expectations. So on top of what we talked about, societal expectations on women in general, combined with undiagnosed or late diagnosed ADHD symptoms, can lead to feelings of measuring up and harsh self judgment. That harsh self-judgment, as we know, makes it hard to have self-love, self-compassion, kind words. Lesley Logan 30:55  You're all so amazing. I really hope that you guys are liking these little series. If there are other ones, you have topics you want us to bring up, or guest we want to bring in, please let us know. Right now, what part of the self-love comes easy for you, what part is hard, and then stay tuned to our next episode, where we'll go over some tools. Thanks so much until next time, Be It Till You See It. Lesley Logan 31:14  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Brad Crowell 31:57  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 32:02  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 32:06  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 32:13  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 32:16  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Stephanie Venn-Watson, DVM, MPH, is a serial entrepreneur of for-profit and not-for-profit companies. She is a veterinary epidemiologist and public health scientist with over forty patents and seventy peer-reviewed scientific publications. Stephanie is currently the Co-Founder, Co-Chief Executive Officer of Seraphina Therapeutics. Previously, she served as an epidemiologist tracking diseases for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and World Health Organization. She is a recipient of the 2025 CNBC Changemaker Award.In this episode, Stephanie discusses her work at CDC and WHO, setting up infectious disease surveillance systems... being recruited by the U.S. Navy to help understand and improve the health and wellness of the Navy dolphins, a population that was already living significantly longer than dolphins in the wild… her research, funded by the Office of Naval Research, studying why some dolphins age more healthfully than others… researching which molecules predicted the healthiest aging dolphins and then, the groundbreaking discovery of foundational nutrient, C15:0… publishing research results that have been revalidated by independent teams throughout the world... working to identify the best ways to incorporate C15:0 in our daily diets… exploring the parallels between the ways aging affects dolphins and the ways aging affects humans... how, as an undergrad, her plan to go to medical school was affected when by two events: reading The Coming Plaque and meeting a veterinary epidemiologist… observing how dolphins demonstrate the power of community… the opportunities that missteps can create… her book, The Longevity Nutrient: The Unexpected Fat That Holds the Key to Healthy Aging… the importance of following your moral compass… and, in her words, “When you find your purpose, or probably more likely, when your purpose finds you, grab the reins and hold tight and enjoy the ride.”

In the midst of collapse, as we watch our governments lay waste to our social agreements, it can be hard to imagine extending the franchise of legal rights to Nature and the More than Human world.  And yet, if we're to transcend this moment, it must be because we have become something other than we are now - and to do this, we need the roadmaps that show us how to move through, and beyond, the collapse of the old into something new. We spoke to Ally Pimor about this a couple of weeks ago and when I first met her, I also met this week's guest and they had so much to say that I wanted to talk to each of them.  So with this in mind, this week's guest is Brontie Ansell, the founder and co-director of Lawyers for Nature. Brontie founded Lawyers for Nature in 2019 with the (fairly infamous) barrister Paul Powlesland, they are a collective of lawyers who act to represent Nature. They reimagine the law for Nature and advocate for Nature to be given legal rights through education, Nature centric governance, consultancy, research and advocacy. Last year Lawyers for Nature were behind the We Are Nature campaign that sought to change the dictionary definition of Nature at the Oxford English Dictionary to include humans as part of Nature. Brontie was one of the key legal architects behind the Nature on the Board project at Faith in Nature and she was the first human to act as the Nature Guardian speaking on behalf of Nature at the company Faith in Nature, giving Nature a voice and a vote on a corporate board for the first time in history. She then went on to design the legal apparatus to appoint Nature and the voice of future generations to the board of House of Hackney, a company that credits Nature as their most important muse. Most recently she was advising the Comisiwn Seilwaith Cenedlaethol Cymru/National Infrastructure Commission for Wales on their Nature Representation pilot. She features heavily in both Simeon Rose's new book Nature's Boardroom and Frieda Gormley's book In the Company of Nature. She has been a lecturer in law for 15 years, most recently at the University of Essex where she was an associate professor at Essex Law School. Brontie has taught courses on Rights of Nature, climate justice, employment law and land law. Her work is informed by the global rights of nature movement and she is grateful to all who came before her to create the bedrock for work she does. Brontie talks to me about what a society could look like if we really reformed the meaning of ‘justice for all', and started to understand Nature and aspects of Nature as a subject of law.Because of the times we're in, I felt I could not ignore the shocking events that occurred in America this past week week and so we started with a quote from Elliott Morris and Strength in Numbers, which I was confusing with another organisation - Strength in Numbers is, in fact, a Substack blog -  well worth reading. I've put a link in the show notes, along with a few others that I think are worth adding to your must-read list every morning.  Last week - with his permission - I read a bit from one of these, by Oliver Kornetzke as part of the intro (hi Ollie if you're still listening!). I'm not going to make a habit of this every week, but I want to read something from Jackie Summers blog, Field Notes for Cracking An Empire, where she says, “If you've been reading my work for the last few years, none of this should be surprising. The old narratives are gone. This is what fascism looks like in real time. First, ICE agents killed Renee Nicole Good, a white woman. Now they've murdered Alex Jeffrey Pretti, a 37-year-old US citizen. A nurse with no criminal record. White women's bodies were supposed to be sacrosanct. Respectable professionals were supposed to be “off-limits.” That's no longer the case. For Black people, this country has always been fascist. What's new is who else is inside the blast radius. The Venn diagram of “safe” and “endangered” is now a circle. If you're shaken, it's not just grief. It's narrative whiplash. The distance between “this can't happen” and “it just did, on camera” no longer exists. You have choices. You can either cling to the lie and let someone else keep paying. Or pay the cost of updating the story about this country. About who is “safe,” about what you're willing to do now that protections are gone. I've said it before, the empire can handle outrage. It has no defense against empathy at scale. Outrage spikes, trends, and fades. Empathy—“it can be me; it already is them”—changes what people are willing to risk and protect. This is recruitment by atrocity. Your blood spilled red in the streets, just like ours. It shouldn't take this. It always has."There follows one of the most cogent, clear, useful, grounded lists of how we can all join what has been called well-organised Anarchists. And if that's what we are, I'm not sure that's bad.  At the end, Jackie writes - If you're going out, your first job is coming home. If you're staying home, your first job is staying human.  I'm writing this from the privilege and safety of a rural home in the UK.  Wherever you are in the world, please look after each other. And for ideas on how we can transcend this moment, to start reimagining a world which sees us as humans who reconnect with each other and with Nature, and give Nature the rights it deserves to thrive, please listen on to Brontie Ansell and her beautiful models of Quiet Romance, Care, Guardianship and justice for all life. Linkshttps://www.lawyersfornature.com/https://immersives.pioneerspost.com/lawyers-leading-nature/index.htmlhttps://greenallianceblog.org.uk/2022/09/22/giving-nature-a-seat-on-the-board-is-a-powerful-way-to-make-sure-businesses-protect-our-environment/https://nationalinfrastructurecommission.wales/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/NICW_NOTB_LFN-Final-Report.pdfhttps://www.houseofhackney.com/pages/nature-our-directorhttps://www.natureontheboard.com/https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/professional-business/natures-boardroomhttps://www.waterstones.com/book/in-the-company-of-nature/frieda-gormley/9781645023500https://www.ukrightsofnature.org/https://wearenature.org/

It's being calling “Flu A” – 2026's devastatingly aggressive H3N2 influenza that's so vicious, even Dr. Drew was coughing and sneezing for weeks. Countless people have posted about their symptoms of this “super flu” – including Naomi Wolf, who says it's “weird” and “unnatural” and “like a time-released illness.” “A pounding headache that made every vein on my skull feel like a little river of throbbing molten lead,” writes Naomi. “Abundant sniffles… a regular whistling sound emerging, every time I exhaled…” Why is this year's “Influenza A” AKA H3N2 so miserable? And are there medications or remedies already in your home that could help? Naomi Wolf shares the steps she used to rid her body of Flu A symptoms, when you should seek help from a hospital, and how she finally recovered at home. Naomi Wolf Ph.D. is an independent journalist, co-founder and CEO of DailyClout.io, and co-editor of The Pfizer Papers with Amy Kelly. She is also the author of Facing the Beast: Courage, Faith and Resistance in a New Dark Age and War Room/DailyClout Pfizer Documents Analysis Volunteers' Reports eBook. Follow at https://x.com/naomirwolf Autumn Smith is the co-founder of Paleovalley, a company focused on nutrient-dense foods. She advocates for rethinking meat consumption and promotes the benefits of bone broth and tallow through Paleovalley's offerings. More at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson is Co-CEO and Co-Founder of Seraphina Therapeutics. She is a veterinary epidemiologist and author of “The Longevity Nutrient”. Her background includes DARPA, the U.S. Navy Marine Mammal Program, and research on nutritional C15:0 deficiencies. Learn more at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 • AUGUSTA PRECIOUS METALS – Thousands of Americans are moving portions of their retirement into physical gold & silver. Learn more in this 3-minute report from our friends at Augusta Precious Metals: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/gold⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or text DREW to 35052 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠• FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • VSHREDMD – Formulated by Dr. Drew: The Science of Cellular Health + World-Class Training Programs, Premium Content, and 1-1 Training with Certified V Shred Coaches! More at https://drdrew.com/vshredmd • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Executive Producers • Kaleb Nation - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Susan Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/firstladyoflove⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Content Producer • Emily Barsh - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/emilytvproducer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Hosted By • Dr. Drew Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/drdrew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today's poem falls somewhere in the middle of a Venn diagram of haiku and English ode. Happy reading. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dailypoempod.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to Dev Game Club, where this week we begin a series on 1985's Ultima IV. After talking about the recent Defeating Games for Charity, we set the game in its time, talk about our encounters in the past with the series, and then dive into the manuals and the start of the game. Dev Game Club looks at classic video games and plays through them over several episodes, providing commentary. Sections played: The first couple of hours and the manuals  Issues covered: Defeating Games for Charity, the first pancake, our experiences with this series, an opaque franchise, mainlining a game, opacity being part of the point, performance characteristics of the PCs of the time, the importance of the manuals, entering the world as yourself, using the manual to reinforce the role-play, not requiring graphics, priming the player, describing the geography of different areas, imposing importance on a handful of pixels, the quest of the game, sublimating the quest of the game, a less traditional RPG experience, after reading the manual, the deep questions/dilemmas, tournament structure, choosing your most important virtue, getting the bard, series characters who can join your party, reflecting your beliefs, getting different dilemmas, the Venn diagram of virtues, the Tinker profession, symmetry in design, Buddhism and the Eightfold Path, countering the cultural zeitgeist, the Avatar and Hinduism, a deity's manifestation on Earth, finding your way into swamps, both hosts being poisoned and dying, death and rebirth, being unable to recruit early. Games, people, and influences mentioned or discussed: Dwarf Fortress, BioStats, KyleAndError13, Silksong, GreyFiery, Hollow Knight, Untitled Goose Game, Kaeon, Hitman, N0isses, Hades, Phil Salvador, MYST, RobotSpacer, Shadowgate, Unpacking, Kendrama, CalamityNolan, Splatoon 2, Typing of the Dead, Dark Souls 2, Nitro, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, LostLake, Minecraft, Super Mario Bros Shuffler, Devil May Cry, MegaMan X, Belmont, NES, Atari 2600, Ultima Underworld, A Bard's Tale, Eye of the Beholder, Magic: The Gathering, LucasArts, Super Mario 64, Space Harrier, Gauntlet, Ghosts n' Goblins, Gradius, Super Mario Bros, Tetris, Where in the World Is Carmen Sandiego, Spy vs Spy (series), Oregon Trail, King's Quest II, The Goonies, Gremlins, A View to a Kill, Rambo, Temple of Doom, The Empire Strikes Back, SEGA Master System, Sonic (series), Wizardry, Apple ][, Commodore 64, Civilization III, The Sims, Bill Roper, Warcraft, The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind, Reed Knight, Pool of Radiance, Dungeons & Dragons, Warren Spector, Ultima Adventures, Outcast, Fallout, Wasteland, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, Harley Baldwin, Richard Garriott, the Ramayana, Ed Fries, Benimanjaro, Kirk Hamilton, Aaron Evers, Mark Garcia.  Note: Because Ultima IV has very little music to speak of, I will be substituting music from later in the series in the openings to these episodes TTDS: 06:25 Next time: More Ultima IV Twitch: timlongojr and twinsunscorp YouTube Discord DevGameClub@gmail.com

Are you a nice leader or a kind leader? It might sound like the same thing, but Bob and Josh break down why the difference could be holding you back from becoming the leader your team actually needs.Using a Venn diagram from The Caring Techie, they explore the uncomfortable truth that being "nice" often means avoiding conflict, telling people what they want to hear, and prioritizing short-term comfort over long-term growth. Being "kind," on the other hand, means doing the right thing even when it's uncomfortable, setting boundaries, and being honest even at the risk of conflict.Bob shares a recent moment where he chose the nice path instead of the honest one—and why it still bothers him. Josh talks about the weight of leadership responsibility and why he'd rather have a difficult conversation than look back years later knowing he failed someone by staying silent.They also tackle the concept of getting "pickled"—how organizations slowly brine you into niceness until you stop asking the hard questions and stop saying what needs to be said. Drawing from Jeff Watts' book "Calm Rebel Leadership," they discuss how to find your center, recognize how far you've drifted, and start the slow work of crawling back to genuine, honest leadership.The takeaway? Don't flip the switch overnight. Baby steps, consistency, and the courage to be kind over nice will serve you and your team far better in the long run.Calm Rebel Leadership by Geoff WattsHarvard Business Review - "Is Your Leadership Style Too Nice?"The Caring Techie - Nice vs Kind Venn DiagramStay Connected and Informed with Our NewslettersJosh Anderson's "Leadership Lighthouse"Dive deeper into the world of Agile leadership and management with Josh Anderson's "Leadership Lighthouse." This bi-weekly newsletter offers insights, tips, and personal stories to help you navigate the complexities of leadership in today's fast-paced tech environment. Whether you're a new manager or a seasoned leader, you'll find valuable guidance and practical advice to enhance your leadership skills. Subscribe to "Leadership Lighthouse" for the latest articles and exclusive content right to your inbox.Subscribe hereBob Galen's "Agile Moose"Bob Galen's "Agile Moose" is a must-read for anyone interested in Agile practices, team dynamics, and personal growth within the tech industry. The newsletter features in-depth analysis, case studies, and actionable tips to help you excel in your Agile journey. Bob brings his extensive experience and thoughtful perspectives directly to you, covering everything from foundational Agile concepts to advanced techniques. Join a community of Agile enthusiasts and practitioners by subscribing to "Agile Moose."Subscribe hereDo More Than Listen:We publish video versions of every episode and post them on our YouTube page.Help Us Spread The Word: Love our content? Help us out by sharing on social media, rating our podcast/episodes on iTunes, or by giving to our

Episode Notes: This week on Zed Games Zahra, Peter, and Natalia get super cool and put on some shades to talk the week in #GamingNews. Zahra takes a leaf out of Dr Seuss finding things, rings, knowers of the known, Venn diagrams, and clearing their name in the board game 'Things In Rings' from allplay. Natalia then double dips crying on public transport while playing 'and Roger' from TearyHand Studios, and then plays the comic equivalent of a haiku in 'A Ravens Monologue' from Mojiken Studios. Then Zahra cleans up with 'Spilled!' from Lente. Timestamps and Links: 00:00 - Welcome to Zed Games 00:00 - #GamingNews 09:43 - Things In Rings from allplay 13:52 - and Roger from TearyHand Studios 18:18 - A Raven Monologue from Mojiken Studio 19:48 - Spilled! from Lente Upcoming Events Indie Dev Night @Lost Souls Karaoke Thursday 6-9pm; 12th Feb, 16th April, 4th June 6-9pm, 15th Oct, 12th Nov Radiothon Event: 13th Aug Produced and recorded by Zahra at 4zzz in Fortitude Valley, Meanjin/Brisbane Australia on Turrabul and Jaggera Country. Audio and Cover Image edited by Tobi for podcast distribution for Creative Broadcasters Limited. Backing Music provided by Pixabay from Golden Sound Labs-Bouncy

Dette er en liten smakebit fra da Viggo Venn var på besøk hos Fetisha+1 på Podimo!Ukens gjest er klovn inn og ut, det fikk iaf grensevaktene se da han ble kroppsvisitert. Han har en årsregning på 70 000 kr på ballonger og det er nok ikke så mange andre som får refleksvest nudes enn denne karen! Om du ikke allerede har Podimo-abonnement, så kan du få 30 dagers gratis lytting ved å følge lenke: Podimo.com/fetisha

JUDGEMENT AT NUREMBERG Judge Dan Haywood presides over the trial of four German judges accused of collaborating with the Nazi regime by sentencing innocent men to death during World War II. As testimony unfolds, the visiting Americans and their wary German hosts are forced to confront what the war did to their countries, and the lasting moral damage it left behind. Craig, Elisabeth and guest Valerie Cameron talk about society's role in atrocities, fighting fascism at home, the film sports nerd Venn diagram and the movie “Judgement at Nuremburg” on this week's Matinee Heroes. Show Notes 0:59 Craig, Elisabeth and guest Valerie Cameron (https://www.whattoseewithval.com/) talk about her latest musings and postings. 8:32 Craig, Elisabeth and Adam discuss  "Marathon Man". 1:03:29 Recasting 1:29:34 Double Feature 1:33:54 Final Thoughts 1:36:58 A preview of next week's episode "Sisu." F#@K Nazis month continues with a movie that is just pure revenge "Sisu."

What if the way you think about wealth is keeping you from building it? In this episode, Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP® and  Carl Richards, CFP® creator of the Sketch Guy column in the New York Times, sit down to explore how simple drawings unlock profound truths about money and life.Carl shares the stories behind his most powerful sketches, including the Venn diagram asking "What can I control?" and "What matters?" and why their overlap is where real financial planning happens. Key Takeaways:Focus on the overlap of what matters and what you control.Real financial planning aligns money with life.The only goal that matters is yours.Childfree planning requires different tools and thinking.Episode Host:Dr. Jay Zigmont, PhD, MBA, CFP® is the Founder of Childfree Wealth, a life and financial planning firm dedicated to helping people simplify their finances so they can live an amazing Childfree life. Dr. Jay is a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER®, Childfree Wealth Specialist, and author of the book “The Childfree Guide to Life and Money.” His Ph.D. is in Adult Learning from the University of Connecticut.Meet the Guest:Carl Richards, CFP®, wrote The Sketch Guy column in The New York Times for a decade, using cardstock and a Sharpie to make money feel less complicated. He's the author of bestsellers The Behavior Gap and The One-Page Financial Plan, and his latest book, Your Money: Reimagining Wealth in 101 Simple Sketches, released in October 2025. Carl hosts the daily podcast Behavior Gap Radio and founded The Society of Advice, a community for financial planners dedicated to the craft of advice. Learn more on his website: behaviorgap.com.Connect with Carl Online: LinkedIn   X   Instagram. Pre-order Carl's book on Amazon or at your favorite bookstore. To place a bulk order of Carl's book, visit this link and use the code YourMoney5 at checkout to save aAbout Childfree Life by Design: Childfree Life By Design is dedicated to helping Childfree individuals thrive by providing resources, guidance, and community. We recognize that when you've made a decision roughly 75% of the population doesn't make, conventional wisdom simply doesn't apply to you. Our mission is to help you design a life that works for you, covering everything from finances and relationships to career decisions and building support networks that will actually be there when you need them. Connect with Us: Ready to design your ideal Childfree life? Connect with our financial planning team at childfreewealth.com or learn more about estate planning at childfreetrust.com Join the conversation on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/childfreeinsightsFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChildfreeInsights/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/childfreeinsightsYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ChildfreeInsights Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational & entertainment purposes. Please consult your advisor before implementing any ideas heard on this podcast...

In this episode of We Think It's Funny, hosts Mark Schiff and Daniel Lobell welcome the "Godfather of PowerPoint Comedy," Don McMillan. Trading his Stanford engineering degree and Silicon Valley chip-designing days for a microphone and a laser pointer, Don breaks down the hilarious intersection of logic and laughter. From his viral "Life After Death by PowerPoint" insights to his legendary run on America's Got Talent, Don proves that being "technically funny" is a precision science. Tune in for a high-energy conversation filled with Venn diagrams, corporate quirks, and the kind of smart, relatable humor that only a former rocket scientist (well, electrical engineer) could calculate so perfectly.

GopherCon 2026 Early tickets until Jan 31! Get them while they last!Go 1.26 coming soonOfficial release notesInteractive release notes by Anton ZhiyanovInterview with Arthur VaverkoVenn.cityJob openingsArthur Vaverko on LinkedIn ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

This week, it's a long-overdue return to our favorite foursome as we cover All the Young Dudes chapters 88-90. Things are getting tense, teenagers are really teenagering, and the Snape feud is reaching new levels of intensity. Also, we're talking about the Venn diagram that is a circle of how Remus, Harry, and Amanda deal with people making a fuss over them, poor little Christopher and his pining, and Kev is having ‘Nam flashbacks. Support the showSupport FFH on Patreon: patreon.com/thefoxandthefoxhoundFollow us!IG: @thefoxandthefoxhoundTikTok: @thefoxandthefoxhound

The best directed TV show of 2025 is a queer hockey romance from Canada called Heated Rivalry. And like the rest of the internet, host Alex Heeney has become quite a fan.  But she's been thinking a lot about what makes it good and what has made it popular, and how those two things definitely intersect, but the Venn diagram isn't just a circle.  So on today's episode, Alex talks about why she, too, was very excited for the cottage, why the show is hitting in this cultural moment, what still felt lacking — and how all of that sent her to rewatch Looking, a very different kind of show, to get the hit she was really craving.

A conversation about mathematics inspired by a Venn diagram. Presented by Katie Steckles and Peter Rowlett, with special guest Keisha Thompson. Katie mentioned the MathForEquality badges and pins.

Ready to conquer 2026 with your partner? In this powerful episode of Married Into Crazy, hosts Snooks and Lovvy tackle one of the biggest relationship challenges couples face during New Year planning: Do your goals need to be perfectly aligned with your spouse's? After 29 years of marriage (and surviving near-death experiences, a divorce request, and countless goal mismatches), these certified Gottman relationship coaches reveal the truth: You don't rise to the level of your goals—you fall to the level of your systems. What You'll Learn:  ✅ Why goal alignment is overrated – and what actually matters for relationship success  ✅ The "Harris Intercept" method – a Venn diagram approach to identifying shared priorities vs. individual pursuits ✅ How to support different goals without resentment, shame, or feeling left out  ✅ The accountability framework that prevents conflict when one partner falls off track  ✅ Real talk about fitness, business, and personal goals – when Snooks wants pizza and Lovvy's doing 75 Hard  ✅ The C.R.A.Z.Y. framework – Five pillars that saved their marriage (Compassionate, Real, Accountable, Zealous, Yielding)  Episode Highlights: 03:44 – The stabbing story: How Lovvy survived a near-fatal attack by Snooks's ex just 5 days after getting engaged 13:16 – Do couples really need the same goals? The debate begins 17:00 – The "Harris Intercept": A game-changing tool for negotiating priorities 22:00 – When one partner is eating pizza and the other is on 75 Hard: Real-world goal conflicts 28:29 – James Clear's wisdom: "You fall to the level of your systems, not rise to your goals" 32:40 – Snooks gets vulnerable: Learning to be compassionate, real, and yielding in marriage Whether you're a singlepreneur, couplepreneur, or marriedpreneur, this episode offers actionable strategies to make 2026 your best year yet—together or individually (but still connected!).  Resources Mentioned: Atomic Habits by James Clear – The book that transformed their approach to goals Married Into Crazy Winter Ball & Marriage Conference – February 6-7, 2026 (tickets at marriedintocrazy.com) Gottman Method Couples Therapy – The framework Snooks & Lovvy use in their coaching OL and Sway Interview – Episode on singlepreneurs, couplepreneurs, and marriedpreneurs  Shoutouts:

Welcome back to the Ultimate Guide to Partnering® Podcast. AI agents are your next customers. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ https://youtu.be/vEdq8rpBM3I In this data-rich keynote, Jay McBain deconstructs the tectonic shifts reshaping the $5.3 trillion global technology industry, arguing that we are entering a new 20-year cycle where traditional direct sales models are obsolete. McBain explains why 96% of the industry is now surrounded by partners and how successful companies must pivot from “flywheels and theory” to a granular strategy focused on the seven specific partners present in every deal. From the explosion of agentic AI and the $163 billion marketplace revolution to the specific mechanics of multiplier economics, this discussion provides a roadmap for navigating the “decade of the ecosystem” where influence, trust, and integration—not just product—determine winners and losers. Key Takeaways Half of today's Fortune 500 companies will likely vanish in the next 20 years due to the shift toward AI and ecosystem-led models. Every B2B deal now involves an average of seven trusted partners who influence the decision before a vendor even knows a deal exists. Microsoft has outpaced AWS growth for 26 consecutive quarters largely because of a superior partner-led geographic strategy. Marketplaces are projected to grow to $163 billion by 2030, with nearly 60% of deals involving partner funding or private offers. The “Multiplier Effect” is the new ROI, where partners can make up to $8.45 for every dollar of vendor product sold. Future dominance relies on five key pillars: Platform, Service Partnerships, Channel Partnerships, Alliances, and Go-to-Market orchestration. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Keywords: Jay McBain, Canalys, partner ecosystem, channel chief, agentic AI, marketplace growth, multiplier economics, B2B sales trends, tech industry forecast, service partnerships, strategic alliances, Microsoft vs AWS, distribution transformation, managed services growth, SaaS platforms, customer journey mapping, 28 moments of truth, future of reselling, technology spending 2025, ecosystem orchestration, partner multipliers. T Transcript: Jay McBain WORKFILE FOR TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Vince Menzione: Just up from, did you Puerto Rico last night? Puerto Rico, yes. Puerto Rico. He dodged the hurricane. Um, you all know him. Uh, let him introduce himself for those of you who don’t, but just thrilled to have on the stage, again, somebody who knows more about what’s going on in, in the, and has the pulse on this industry probably than just about anybody I know personally. [00:00:21] Vince Menzione: J Jay McBain. Jay, great to see you my friend. Alright, thank you. We have to come all the way. We live, we live uh, about 20 minutes from each other. We have to come all the way to Reston, Virginia to see each other, right? That’s right. Very good. Well, uh, that’s all over to you, sir. Thank you. [00:00:35] Jay McBain: Alright, well thank you so much. [00:00:36] Jay McBain: I went from 85 degrees yesterday to 45 today, but I was able to dodge that, uh, that hurricane, uh, that we kind of had to fly through the northern edge of, uh, wanna talk today about our industry, about the ultimate partner. I’m gonna try to frame up the ultimate partner as I walk through the data and the latest research that, uh, that we’ve been doing in the market. [00:00:56] Jay McBain: But I wanted to start here ’cause our industry moves in 20 year cycles, and if you look at the Fortune 500 and dial back 20 years from today, 52% of them no longer exist. As we step into the next 20 year AI era, half of the companies that we know and love today are not gonna exist. So we look at this, and by the way, if you’re not in the Fortune 500 and you don’t have deep pockets to buy your way outta problems, 71% of tech companies fail over the course of 10 years. [00:01:30] Jay McBain: Those are statistics from the US government. So I start to look at our industry and you know, you may look at the, you know, mainframe era from the sixties and seventies, mini computers, August the 12th, 1981, that first IBM, PC with Microsoft dos, version one, you know, triggered. A new 20 year era of client server. [00:01:51] Jay McBain: It was the time and I worked at IBM for 17 years, but there was a time where Bill Gates flew into Boca Raton, Florida and met with the IBM team and did that, you know, fancy licensing agreement. But after, you know, 20 years of being the most valuable company in the world and 13 years of antitrust and getting broken up, almost like at and TIBM almost didn’t make payroll. [00:02:14] Jay McBain: 13 years after meeting Bill Gates. Yeah, that’s how quickly things change in these eras. In 1999, a small company outta San Francisco called salesforce.com got its start. About 10 years later, Jeff Bezos asked a question in a boardroom, could we rent out our excess capacity and would other companies buy it? [00:02:35] Jay McBain: Which, you know, most people in the room laughed at ’em at the time. But it created a 20 year cloud era when our friends, our neighbors, our family. Saw Chachi PT for the first time in March of 2023. They saw the deep fakes, they saw the poetry, they saw the music. They came to us as tech people and said, did we just light up Skynet? [00:02:58] Jay McBain: And that consumer trend has triggered this next 20 years. I could walk through the richest people in the world through those trends. I could walk through the most valuable companies. It all aligns. ’cause by the way, Apple’s no longer at the top. Nvidia is at the top, Microsoft. Second, things change really quickly. [00:03:17] Jay McBain: So in that course of time, you start to look at our industry and as people are talking about a six and a half or $7 trillion build out of ai, that’s open AI and Microsoft numbers, that is bigger than our industry that’s taken over 50 years to build. This year, we’re gonna finish the year at $5.3 trillion. [00:03:36] Jay McBain: That’s from the smallest flower shop to the biggest bank. Biggest governments that Caresoft would, uh, serve biggest customer in the world is actually the federal government of the us. But you look at this pie chart and you look at the changes that we’re gonna go through over the next 20 years, there’s about a trillion dollars in hardware. [00:03:54] Jay McBain: There’s about a trillion dollars in software. If you look forward through all of the merging trends, quantum computing, humanoid robots, all the things that are coming that dollar to dollar software to hardware will continue to exist all the way through. We see services making up almost two thirds of this pie. [00:04:13] Jay McBain: Yesterday I was in a telco conference with at and t and Verizon and T-Mobile and some of the biggest wireless players and IT services, which happen to be growing faster than products. At the moment, there is more work to be done wrapping around the deal than the actual products that the customer is buying. [00:04:32] Jay McBain: So in an industry that’s growing at 7%. On top of the world economy that’s grown at 2.2. This is the fastest growing industry, and it will be at least for the next 10 years, if not 2070 0.1% of this entire $5 trillion gets transacted through partners. While what we’re talking to today about the ultimate partner, 96% of this industry is surrounded by partners in one way or another. [00:05:01] Jay McBain: They’re there before the deal. They’re there at the deal. They’re there after the deal. Two thirds of our industry is now subscription consumption based. So every 30 days forever, and a customer for life becomes everything. So if every deal in medium, mid-market, and higher has seven partners, according to McKinsey, who are those seven people trying to get into the deal? [00:05:25] Jay McBain: While there’s millions of companies that have come into tech over the last 10 to 20 years. Digital agencies, accountants, legal firms, everybody’s come in. The 250,000 SaaS companies, a million emerging tech companies, there’s a big fight to be one of those seven trusted people at the table. So millions of companies and tens of millions of people our competing for these slots. [00:05:49] Jay McBain: So one of the pieces of research I’m most proud of, uh, in my analyst career is this. And this took over two years to build. It’s a lot of logos. Not this PowerPoint slide, but the actual data. Thousands of people hours. Because guess what? When you look at partners from the top down, the top 1000 partners, by capability and capacity, not by resale. [00:06:15] Jay McBain: It’s not a ranking of CDW and insight and resale numbers. It is the surrounding. Consulting, design, architecture, implementations, integrations, managed services, all the pieces that’s gonna make the next 20 years run. So when you start to look at this, 98% of these companies are private, so very difficult to get to those numbers and, uh, a ton of research and help from AI and other things to get this. [00:06:41] Jay McBain: But this is it. And if you look at this list, there’s a thousand logos out of the million companies. There’s a thousand logos that drive two thirds of all tech services in the world. $1.07 trillion gets delivered by a thousand companies, but here’s where it gets fun. Those companies in the middle, in blue, the 30 of them deliver more tech services than the next 970. [00:07:08] Jay McBain: Combined the 970 combined in white deliver more tech services. Then the next million combined. So if you think we live in an 80 20 rule or maybe a 99, a 95 5 rule, or a 99 1 rule, we actually live in a 99.9 0.1 parallel principle. These companies spread around the world evenly split across the uh, different regions. [00:07:35] Jay McBain: South Africa, Latin America, they’re all over. They split. They split among types. All of the Venn diagram I just showed from GSIs to VARs to MSPs, to agencies and other types of companies. But this is a really rich list and it’s public. So every company in the world now, if you’re looking at Transactable data, if you’re looking at quantifiable data that you can go put your revenue numbers against, it represents 70 to 80% of every company in this room’s Tam. [00:08:08] Jay McBain: In one piece of research. So what do you do below that? How do you cover a million companies that you can’t afford to put a channel account manager? You can’t afford to write programs directly for well after the top down analysis and all the wallet share and you know exactly where the lowest hanging fruit is for most of your tam. [00:08:28] Jay McBain: The available markets. The obtainable markets. You gotta start from the community level grassroots up. So you need to ask the question for the million companies and the maybe a hundred thousand companies out there, partner companies that are surrounding your customer. These are the seven partners that surround your customer. [00:08:48] Jay McBain: What do they read, where do they go, and who do they follow? Interestingly enough, our industry globally equates to only a thousand watering holes, a thousand companies at the top, a thousand places at the bottom. 35% of this audience we’re talking. Millions of people here love events and there’s 352 of them like this one that they love to go to. [00:09:13] Jay McBain: They love the hallway chats, they love the hotel lobby bar, you know, in a time reminded by the pandemic. They love to be in person. It’s the number one way they’re influenced. So if you don’t have a solid event strategy and you don’t have a community team out giving out socks every week, your competitors might beat you. [00:09:31] Jay McBain: 12% of this audience loves podcasts. It’s the Joe Rogan effect of our industry. And while you know, you may not think the 121 podcasts out there are important, well, you’re missing 12% of your audience. It’s over a million people. If you’re not on a weekly podcast in one of these podcasts in the world, there’s still people that read one of the 106 magazines in the world. [00:09:55] Jay McBain: There are people that love peer groups, associations, they wanna be part of this. There’s 15 different ways people are influenced. And a solid grassroots strategy is how you make this happen. In the last 10 years, we’ve created a number of billionaires. Bottom up. They never had to go talk to la large enterprise. [00:10:15] Jay McBain: They never had to go build out a mid-market strategy. They just went and give away socks and new community marketing. And this has created, I could rip through a bunch of names that became unicorns just in the last couple of years, bottoms up. You go back to your board walking into next year, top down, bottom up. [00:10:34] Jay McBain: You’ve covered a hundred percent of your tam, and now you’ve covered it with names, faces, and places. You haven’t covered it with a flywheel or a theory. And for 44 years, we have gone to our board every fourth quarter with flywheels and theory. Trust me, partners are important. The channel is key to us. [00:10:57] Jay McBain: Well, let’s talk at the point of this granularity, and now we’re getting supported by technology 261 entrepreneurs. Many of them in the room actually here that are driving this ability to succeed with seven partners in every deal to exchange data to be able to exchange telemetry of these prospects to be able to see twice or three times in terms of pipeline of your target addressable market. [00:11:26] Jay McBain: All these ai, um, technologies, agentic technologies are coming into this. It’s all about data. It’s all about quantifiable names, faces, and places. Now none of us should be walking around with flywheels, so let’s flip the flywheels. No. Uh, so we also look at, and I sold PCs for 17 years and that was in the high times of 40% margins for partners. [00:11:55] Jay McBain: But one interesting thing when you study the p and l for broad base of partners around the world, it’s changed pretty significantly in this last 20 year era. What the cloud era did is dropped hardware from what used to be 84% plus the break fix and things that wrap around it of the p and l to now 16% of every partner in the world. [00:12:16] Jay McBain: 84% of their p and l is now software and services. And if you look at profitability, it’s worse. It’s actually 87% is profitability wise. They’ve completely shifted in terms of where they go. Now we look at other parts of our market. I could go through every part of the pie of the slide, but we’re watching each of the companies, and if you can see here, this is what we want to talk about in terms of ultimate partner. [00:12:43] Jay McBain: Microsoft has outgrown AWS for 26 straight quarters. They don’t have a better product. They don’t have a better price, they don’t have better promotion. It’s all place. And I’ll explain why you guess here in the light green line. Exactly. The day that Google went a hundred percent all in partner, every deal, even if a deal didn’t have a partner, one of the 4% of deals that didn’t have a partner, they injected a partner. [00:13:09] Jay McBain: You can see on the left side exactly where they did it. They got to the point of a hundred percent partner driven. Rebuilt their programs, rebuilt their marketplace. Their marketplace is actually larger than Microsoft’s, and they grew faster than Microsoft. A couple of those quarters. It is a partner driven future, and now I have Oracle, which I just walked by as I walked from the hotel. [00:13:31] Jay McBain: Oracle with their RPOs will start to join. Maybe the list of three hyperscalers becomes the list of four in future slides, but that’s a growth slide. Market share is different. AWS early and commanding lead. And it plays out, uh, plays out this way. But we’re at an interesting moment and I stood up six years ago talking about the decade of the ecosystem after we went through a decade of sales starting in 1999 when we all thought we were born to be salespeople. [00:14:02] Jay McBain: We managed territories with our gut. The sales tech stack would have it different, that sales was a science, and we ended the decade 2009, looking at sales very differently in 2009. I remember being at cocktail parties where CMOs would be joking around that 50% of their marketing dollars were wasted. They just didn’t know which 50%. [00:14:23] Jay McBain: And I’ll tell you, that was really funny. In 2009 till every 58-year-old CMO got replaced by a 38-year-old growth hacker who walked in with 15,348 SaaS companies in their MarTech and ad tech stack to solve the problem, every nickel of marketing by 2019 was tracked. Marketo, Eloqua, Pardot, HubSpot, driving this industry. [00:14:50] Jay McBain: Now, we stood up and said the 28 moments that come before a sale are pretty much all partner driven. In the best case scenario, a vendor might see four of the moments. They might come to your website, maybe they read an ebook, maybe they have a salesperson or a demo that comes in. That’s four outta 28 moments. [00:15:10] Jay McBain: The other 24 are done by partners. Yeah, in the worst case scenario and the majority scenario, you don’t see any of the moments. All 28 happen and you lose a deal without knowing there ever was a deal. So this is it. We need to partner in these moments and we need to inject partners into sales and marketing, like no time before, and this was the time to do it. [00:15:33] Jay McBain: And we got some feedback in the Salesforce state of sales report, which doesn’t involve any partnerships or, or. Channel Chiefs or anything else. This is 5,500 of the biggest CROs in the world that obviously use Salesforce. 89% of salespeople today use partners every day. For the 11% who don’t, 58% plan two within a year. [00:15:57] Jay McBain: If you add those two numbers together, that’s magically the 96% number. They recognize that every deal has partners in it. In 2024, last year, half of the salespeople in the world, every industry, every country. Miss their numbers. For the minority who made their numbers, 84 point percent pointed to partners as the reason why they made their numbers. [00:16:21] Jay McBain: It was the cheat code for sales, so that modern salesperson that knows how to orchestrate a deal, orchestrate the 28 moments with the seven partners and get to that final spot is the winning formula. HubSpot’s number in separate research was 84% in marketing. So we’re starting to see partners in here. We don’t have to shout from the mountaintops. [00:16:44] Jay McBain: These communities like ultimate Partner are working and we’re getting this to the highest levels in the board. And I’ll say that, you know, when 20 years from now half of the companies we know and love fail after we’re done writing the book and blaming the CEO for inventing the thing that ended up killing them, blaming the board for fiduciary responsibility and letting it happen. [00:17:06] Jay McBain: What are the other chapters of the book? And I think it’s all in one slide. We are in this platform economy and the. [00:17:31] Jay McBain: So your battery’s fine. Check, check, check, check. Alright, I’ll, I’ll just hold this in case, but the companies that execute on all five of these areas, well. Not only today become the trillion dollar valued companies, but they become the companies of tomorrow. These will be the fastest growing companies at every level. [00:17:50] Jay McBain: Not only running a platform business, but participating in other platforms. So this is how it breaks out, and there are people at very senior levels, at very big companies that have this now posted in the office of the CEO winning on integrations is everything. We just went through a demographic shift this year where 51% of our buyers are born after 1982. [00:18:15] Jay McBain: Millennials are the number one buyer of the $5 trillion. Their number one buying criteria is not service. Support your price, your brand reputation, it’s integrations. The buy a product, 80% is good as the next one if it works better in their environment. 79% of us won’t buy a car unless it has CarPlay or Android Auto. [00:18:34] Jay McBain: This is an integration world. The company with the most integrations win. Second, there are seven partners that surround the customer. Highly trusted partners. We’re talking, coaching the customer’s, kids soccer team, having a cottage together up at the lake. You know, best men, bate of honors at weddings type of relationships. [00:18:57] Jay McBain: You can’t maybe have all seven, but how does Microsoft beat AWS? They might have had two, three, or four of them saying nice things about them instead of the competition. Winning in service partnerships and channel partnerships changes by category. If you’re selling MarTech, only 10% of it today is resold, so you build more on service partnerships. [00:19:18] Jay McBain: If you’re in cybersecurity today, 91.6% of it is resold. Transacted through partners. So you build a lot of channel partnerships, plus the service partnerships, whatever the mix is in your category, you have to have two or three of those seven people. Saying nice things about you at every stage of the customer journey. [00:19:38] Jay McBain: Now move over to alliances. We have already built the platforms at the hyperscale level. We’ve built the platforms within SaaS, Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, Marketo, NetSuite, HubSpot. Every buyer has a set of platforms that they buy. We’ve now built them in cybersecurity this year out of 6,500 as high as cyber companies, the top five are starting to separate. [00:20:02] Jay McBain: We built it in distribution, which I’ll show in a minute. We’re building it in Telco. This is a platform economy and alliances win and you have alliances with your competitors ’cause you compete in the morning, but you’re best friends by the afternoon. Winning in other platforms is just as important as driving your own. [00:20:20] Jay McBain: And probably the most important part of this is go to market. That sales, that marketing, the 28 moments, the every 30 days forever become all a partner strategy. So there’s still CEOs out there that believe platform is a UI or UX on a bunch of disparate products and things you’ve acquired. There’s still CFOs out there that Think platform is a pricing model, a bundle model of just getting everything under one, you know, subscription price or consumption price. [00:20:51] Jay McBain: And it’s not, platforms are synonymous with partnerships. This is the way forward and there’s no conversation around ai. That doesn’t involve Nvidia over there, an open AI over here and a hyperscaler over there and a SaaS company over here. The seven layer stack wins every single time, and the companies that get this will be the ones that survive this cycle. [00:21:16] Jay McBain: Now, flipping over to marketplaces. So we had written research that, um, about five years ago that marketplaces were going to grow at 82% compounded. Yeah, probably one of the most accurate predictions we ever made, because it happened, we, we predicted that, uh, we were gonna get up to about $85 billion. Well, now we’ve extended that to 2030, so we’re gonna get up to $163 billion, and the thing that we’re watching is in green. [00:21:46] Jay McBain: If 96% of these deals are partner assisted in some way, how is the economics of partnering going to work? We predicted that 50% of deals by 2027. Would be partner funded in some way. Private offers multi-partner offers distributor sellers of record, and now that extends to 59% by 2030, the most senior leader of the biggest marketplace AWS, just said to us they’re gonna probably make these numbers on their own. [00:22:14] Jay McBain: And he asked what their two competitors are doing. So he’s telling us that we under called this. Now when you look at each of the press releases, and this is the AWS Billion Dollar Club. Every one of the companies on the left have issued a press release that they’re in the billion dollar club. Some of them are in the multi-billions, but I want you to double click on this press release. [00:22:35] Jay McBain: I’m quoted in here somewhere, but as CrowdStrike is building the marketplace at 91% compounded, they’re almost doubling their revenue every single year. They’re growing the partner funding, in this case, distributor funding by 3548%. Almost triple digit growth in marketplace is translating into almost quadruple digit growth in funding. [00:23:01] Jay McBain: And you see that over and over again as, as Splunk hit three, uh, billion dollars. The same. Salesforce hit $2 billion on AWS in Ulti, 18 months. They joined in October 20, 23, and 18 months later, they’re already at $2 billion. But now you’re seeing at Salesforce, which by the way. Grew up to $40 billion in revenue direct, almost not a nickel in resell. [00:23:28] Jay McBain: Made it really difficult for VARs and managed service providers to work with Salesforce because they couldn’t understand how to add services to something they didn’t book the revenue for. While $40 billion companies now seeing 70% of their deals come through partners. So this is just the world that we’re in. [00:23:44] Jay McBain: It doesn’t matter who you are and what industry you’re in, this takes place. But now we’re starting to see for the first time. Partners join the billion dollar club. So you wonder about partnering and all this funding and everything that’s working through Now you’re seeing press releases and companies that are redoing their LinkedIn branding about joining this illustrious club without a product to sell and all the services that wrap around it. [00:24:10] Jay McBain: So the opening session on Microsoft was interesting because there’s been a number of changes that Microsoft has done just in the last 30 days. One is they cut distribution by two thirds going from 180 distributors to 62. They cut out any small partner lower than a thousand dollars, and that doesn’t sound like a lot, but that’s over a hundred thousand partners that get deed tightening the long tail. [00:24:38] Jay McBain: They we’re the first to really put a global point system in place three years ago. They went to the new commerce experience. If you remember, all kinds of changes being led by. The biggest company for the channel. And so when we’re studying marketplaces, we’re not just studying the three hyperscalers, we’re studying what TD Cynic is doing with Stream One Ingram’s doing with Advant Advantage Aerosphere. [00:25:01] Jay McBain: Also, we’re watching what PAX eight, who by the way, is the 365 bestseller for Microsoft in the world. They are the cybersecurity leader for Microsoft in the world and the copilot. Leader in the world for Microsoft and Partner of the Year for Microsoft. So we’re watching what the cloud platforms are doing, watching what the Telco are doing, which is 25 cents out of every dollar, if you remember that pie chart, watching what the biggest resellers are converting themselves into. [00:25:30] Jay McBain: Vince just mentioned, you know, SHI in the changes there watching the managed services market and the leaders there, what they’re doing in terms of how this industry’s moving forward. By the way, managed services at $608 billion this year. Is one and a half times larger than the SaaS industry overall. [00:25:48] Jay McBain: It’s also one and a half times larger than all the hyperscalers combined. Oracle, Alibaba, IBM, all the way down. This is a massive market and it makes up 15 to 20 cents of every dollar the customer spend. We’re watching that industry hit a trillion dollars by the end of the decade, and we’re watching 150 different marketplace development platforms, the distribution of our industry, which today is 70.1% indirect. [00:26:13] Jay McBain: We’re starting to see that number, uh, solidify in terms of marketplaces as well. Watching distributors go from that linear warehouse in a bank to this orchestration model, watching some of the biggest players as the world comes around, platforms, it tightens around the place. So Caresoft, uh, from from here is the sixth biggest distributor in the world. [00:26:40] Jay McBain: Just shows you how big the. You know, biggest client in the world is that they serve. But understand that we’re publishing the distributor 500 list, but it’ll be the same thing. That little group in blue in the middle today, you know, drives almost two thirds of the market. So what happens in all this next stage in terms of where the dollars change hands. [00:27:07] Jay McBain: And the economics of partnering themselves are going through the most radical shift that we’ve seen ever. So back to the nineties, and, and for those of you that have been channel chiefs and running programs, we went to work every day. You know, everything’s on fire. We’re trying to check hundred boxes, trying to make our program 10% better than our competitors. [00:27:30] Jay McBain: Hey, we gotta fix our deal registration program today, and our incentives are outta whack or training programs or. You know, not where they need to be. Our certification, you know, this was the life of, uh, of a channel chief. Everybody thought we were just out drinking in the Caribbean with our best partners, but we were under the weight of this. [00:27:49] Jay McBain: But something interesting has happened is that we turned around and put the customer at the middle of our programs to say that those 28 moments in green before the sale are really, really important. And the seven partners who participate are really important. Understanding. The customer’s gonna buy a seven layer stack. [00:28:09] Jay McBain: They’re gonna buy it With these seven partners, the procurement stage is much different. The growth of marketplaces, the growth of direct in some of these areas, and then long term every 30 days forever in a managed service, implementations, integrations, how you upsell, cross-sell, enrich a deal changes. So how would you build a program that’s wrapped around the customer instead of the vendor? [00:28:35] Jay McBain: And we’re starting to hear our partners shout back to us. These are global surveys, big numbers, but over half of our partners, regardless of type, are selling consulting to their customer. Over half are designing architecting deals. A third of them are trying to be system integrators showing up at those implementation integration moments. [00:28:55] Jay McBain: Two thirds of them are doing managed services, but the shocking one here is 44% of our partners, regardless of type, are coding. They’re building agents and they’re out helping their customer at that level. So this is the modern partner that says, don’t typecast me. You may have thought of me in your program. [00:29:14] Jay McBain: You might have me slotted as a var. Well, I do 3.2 things, and if I don’t get access to those resources, if you don’t walk me to that room, I’m not gonna do them with you. You may have me as a managed service provider that’s only in the morning. By the afternoon I’m coding, and by the next morning I’m implementing and consulting. [00:29:33] Jay McBain: So again, a partner’s not a partner. That Venn diagram is a very loose one now, as every partner on there is doing 3.2 different business models. And again, they’re telling us for 43 years, they said, I want more leads this year it changed. For the first time, I want to be recognized and incentivized as more than just a cash register for you. [00:29:57] Jay McBain: I want you to recognize when I’m consulting, when I’m designing, when you’re winning deals, because of my wonderful services, by the way, we asked the follow up question, well, where should we spend our money with you? And they overwhelmingly say, in the consulting stage, you win and lose deals. Not at moment 28. [00:30:18] Jay McBain: We’re not buying a pack of gum at the gas station. This is a considered purchase. You win deals from moment 12 through 16 and I’m gonna show you a picture of that later, and they say, you better be spending your money there, or you’re not gonna win your fair share or more than your fair share of deals. [00:30:36] Jay McBain: The shocking thing about this is that Microsoft, when they went to the point system, lifted two thirds of all the money, tens of billions of dollars, and put it post-sale, and we were all scratching our heads going. Well, if the partners are asking for it there, and it seems like to beat your biggest competitors, you want to win there. [00:30:54] Jay McBain: Why would you spend the money on renewal? Well, they went to Wall Street and Goldman Sachs and the people who lift trillions of dollars of pension funds and said, if we renew deals at 108%, we become a cash machine for you. And we think that’s more valuable than a company coming out with a new cell phone in September and selling a lot of them by Christmas every year. [00:31:18] Jay McBain: The industry. And by the way, wall Street responded, Microsoft has been more valuable than Apple since. So we talk in this now multiplier language, and these are reports that we write, uh, at AMIA at canals. But talking about the partner opportunity in that customer cycle, the $6 and 40 cents you can make for every dollar of consumption, or the $7 and 5 cents you can make the $8 and 45 cents you can make. [00:31:46] Jay McBain: There’s over 24 companies speaking at this level now, and guess what? It’s not just cloud or software companies. Hardware companies are starting to speak in this language, and on January 25th, Cisco, you know, probably second to Microsoft in terms of trust built with the channel globally is moving to a full point system. [00:32:09] Jay McBain: So these are the changes that happen fast. But your QBR with your partners now less about drinking beers at the hotel lobby bar and talking dollar by dollar where these opportunities are. So if you’re doing 3.2 of these things, let’s build out a, uh, a play where you can make $3 for every dollar that we make. [00:32:28] Jay McBain: And you make that profitably. You make it in sticky, highly retained business, and that’s the model. ’cause if you make $3 for every dollar. We make, you’re gonna win Partner of the year, and if you win partner of the year, that piece of glass that you win on stage, by the time you get back to your table, you’re gonna have three offers to buy your business. [00:32:51] Jay McBain: CDW just bought a w. S’s Partner of the Year. Insight bought Google’s eight time partner of the year. Presidio bought ServiceNow’s, partner of the year over and over and over again. So I’m at Octane, I’m at CrowdStrike, I’m at all these events in Vegas every week. I’m watching these partners of the year. [00:33:05] Jay McBain: And I’m watching as the big resellers. I’m watching as the GSIs and the m and a folks are surrounding their table after, and they’re selling their businesses for SaaS level valuations. Not the one-to-one service valuation. They’re getting multiples because this is the new future of our industry. This is platform economics. [00:33:25] Jay McBain: This is winning and platforms for partners. Now, like Vince, I spent 20 minutes without talking about ai, but we have to talk about ai. So the next 20 years as it plays out is gonna play out in phases. And the first thing you know to get it out of the way. The first two years since that March of 23, has been underwhelming, to say the least. [00:33:47] Jay McBain: It’s been disappointing. All the companies that should have won the biggest in AI have been the most disappointing. It’s underperformed the s and p by a considerable amount in terms of where we are. And it goes back to this. We always overestimate the first two years, but we underestimate the first 10. [00:34:07] Jay McBain: If you wanna be the point in time person and go look at that 1983 PC or the 1995 internet or that 2007 iPhone or that whatever point in time you wanna look at, or if you want to talk about hallucinations or where chat chip ET version five is version, as opposed to where it’s going to be as it improves every six months here on in. [00:34:30] Jay McBain: But the fact of the matter is, it’s been a consumer trend. Nvidia got to be the most valuable company in the world. OpenAI was the first company to 2 billion users, uh, in that amount of speed. It’s the fastest growing product ever in history, and it’s been a consumer win this trillions of dollars to get it thrown around in the press releases. [00:34:49] Jay McBain: They’re going out every day, you know, open ai, signing up somebody new or Nvidia, investing in somebody new almost every single day in hundreds of billions of dollars. It is all happening really on the consumer side. So we got a little bit worried and said, is that 96% of surround gonna work in ag agentic ai? [00:35:10] Jay McBain: So we went and asked, and the good news is 88% of end customers are using partners to work through their ag agentic strategy. Even though they’re moving slow, they’re actually using partners. But what’s interesting from a partner perspective, and this is new research that out till 2030. This is the number one services opportunity in the entire tech or telco industry. [00:35:34] Jay McBain: 35.3% compounded growth ending at $267 billion in services. Companies are rebuilding themselves, building out practices, and getting on this train and figuring out which vendors they should hook their caboose to as those trains leave the station. But it kind of plays out like this. So in the next three to five years, we’re in this generative, moving into agentic phase. [00:36:01] Jay McBain: Every partner thinks internally first, the sales and marketing. They’re thinking about their invoicing and billing. They’re thinking about their service tickets. They’re thinking about creating a business that’s 10% better than their competitors, taking that knowledge into their customers and drive in business. [00:36:17] Jay McBain: But we understand that ag agentic AI, as it’s going to play out is not a product. A couple of years ago, we thought maybe a copilot or an agent force or something was going to be the product that everybody needed to buy, and it’s not a product, it’s gonna show up as a feature. So you go back in the history of feature ads and it’s gonna show up in software. [00:36:38] Jay McBain: So if you’re calling in SMB, maybe you’re calling on a restaurant. The restaurant isn’t gonna call OpenAI or call Microsoft or call Nvidia directly. They’re running their restaurant. And they may have chosen a platform like Toast Square, Clover, whatever iPads people are running around with, runs on a platform that does everything in their business, does staffing, does food ordering, works with Uber Eats, does everything end to end? [00:37:08] Jay McBain: They’re gonna wait to one of those platforms, dries out agent AI for them, and can run the restaurant more effectively, less human capital and more consistently, but they wait for the SaaS platform as you get larger. A hundred, 150 people. You have vice presidents. Each of those vice presidents already have a SaaS stack. [00:37:28] Jay McBain: I talked about Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, et cetera. They’ve already built that seven layer model and in some cases it’s 70 layers. But the fact is, is they’re gonna wait for those SaaS layers to deliver ag agentic to them. So this is how it’s gonna play out for the next three and a half, three to five years. [00:37:45] Jay McBain: And partners are realizing that many of them were slow to pick up SaaS ’cause they didn’t resell it. Well now to win in this next three to half, three to five years, you’re gonna have to play in this environment. When you start looking out from here, the next generation, you know, kind of five through 15 years gets interesting in more of a physical sense. [00:38:06] Jay McBain: Where I was yesterday talking about every IOT device that now is internet access, starts to get access to large language models. Every little sensor, every camera, everything that’s out there starts to get smart. But there’s a point. The first trillionaire, I believe, will be created here. Elon’s already halfway there. [00:38:24] Jay McBain: Um, but when Bill Gates thought there was gonna be a PC in every home, and IBM thought they were gonna sell 10,000 to hobbyists, that created the richest person in the world for 20 years, there will be a humanoid in every home. There’s gonna be a point in time that you’re out having drinks with your friends, and somebody’s gonna say, the early adopter of your friends is gonna say. [00:38:46] Jay McBain: I haven’t done the dishes in six weeks. I haven’t done the laundry. I haven’t made my bed. I haven’t mowed the lawn. When they say that, you’re gonna say, well, how? And they’re gonna say, well, this year I didn’t buy a new car, but I went to the car dealership and I bought this. So we’re very close to the dexterity needed. [00:39:05] Jay McBain: We’ve got the large language models. Now. The chat, GPT version 10 by then is going to make an insane, and every house is gonna have one of the. [00:39:17] Jay McBain: This is the promise of ai. It’s not humanoid robots, it’s not agents. It’s this. 99% of the world’s business data has not been trained or tuned into models yet. Again, this is the slow moving business. If you want to think about the 99% of business data, every flight we’ve all taken in this room sits on a saber system that was put in place in 1964. [00:39:43] Jay McBain: Every banking transaction, we’ve all made, every withdrawal, every deposit sits on an IBM mainframe put in place in the sixties or seventies. 83% of this data sits in cold storage at the edge. It’s not ready to be moved. It’s not cleansed, it’s not, um, indexed. It’s not in any format or sitting on any infrastructure that a large language model will be able to gobble up the data. [00:40:10] Jay McBain: None of the workflows, none of the programming on top of that data is yet ready. So this is your 10 to 20 year arc of this era that chat bot today when they cancel your flight is cute. It’s empathetic, it feels bad for you, or at least it seems to, but it can’t do anything. It can’t book you the Marriott and get you an Uber and then a 5:00 AM flight the next morning. [00:40:34] Jay McBain: It can’t do any of that. But more importantly, it doesn’t know who you are. I’ve got 53 years of flights under my belt and they, I’m the person that get me within six hours of my kids and get me a one-way Hertz rental. You know, if there’s bad weather in Miami, get me to Tampa, get me a Hertz, I’m driving home, I’m gonna make it home. [00:40:56] Jay McBain: I’m not the 5:00 AM get me a hotel person. They would know that if they picked up the flights that I’ve taken in the past. Each of us are different. When you get access to the business data and you become ag agentic, everything changes. Every industry changes because of this around the customers. When you ask about this 35% growth, working on that data, working in traditional consulting and design and implementation, working in the $7 trillion of infrastructure, storage, compute, networking, that’s gonna be around, this is a massive opportunity. [00:41:30] Jay McBain: Services are gonna continue to outgrow products. Probably for the next five to 10 years because of this, and I’m gonna finish here. So we talked a lot about quantifying names, faces, places, and I think where we failed the most as ultimate partners is underneath the tam, which every one of our CEOs knows to the decimal point underneath the TAM that our board thinks they’re chasing. [00:41:59] Jay McBain: We’ve done a very poor job. Of talking about the available markets and obtainable markets underneath it, we, we’ve shown them theory. We’ve shown them a bunch of, you know, really smart stuff, and PowerPoint slides up the wazoo, but we’ve never quantified it for them. If they wanna win, if they want to get access, if they want to double their pipeline, triple their pipeline, if they wanna start winning more deals, if they wanna win deals that are three times larger, they close two times faster. [00:42:31] Jay McBain: And they renew 15% larger. They have to get into the available and obtainable markets. So just in the last couple weeks I spoke at Cribble, I spoke at Octane, I spoke at CrowdStrike Falcon. All three of those companies at the CEO level, main stage use those exact three numbers, three x, two x, 15%. That’s the language of platforms, and they’re investing millions and millions and millions of dollars on teams. [00:42:59] Jay McBain: To go build out the Sam Andal in name spaces and places. So you’ve heard me talk about these 28 moments a lot. They’re the ones that you spend when you buy a car. Some people spend one moment and they drive to the Cadillac dealership. ’cause Larry’s been, you know, taking care of the family for 50 years. [00:43:18] Jay McBain: Some people spend 50 moments like I do, watching every YouTube video and every, you know, thing on the internet. I clear the internet cover to cover. But the fact is, is every deal averages around these 28 moments. Your customer, there’s 13 members of the buying committee today. There’s seven partners and they’re buying seven things. [00:43:37] Jay McBain: There’s 27 things orchestrating inside these 28 moments. And where and how they all take place is a story of partnering. So a couple of years ago, canals. Latin for channel was acquired by amia, which is a part of Informa Tech Target, which is majority owned by Informa. All that being said, there’s hundreds of magazines that we have. [00:44:00] Jay McBain: There’s hundreds of events that we run. If somebody’s buying cybersecurity, they probably went to Black Hat or they probably went to GI Tech. One of these events we run, or one of the magazines. So we pick up these signals, these buyer intent signals as a company. Why did they wanna, um, buy a, uh, a Canals, which was a, you know, a small analyst firm around channels? [00:44:22] Jay McBain: They understood this as well. The 28 moments look a lot like this when marketers and salespeople are busy filling in the spots of every deal. And by the way, this is a real deal. AstraZeneca came in to spend millions of dollars on ASAP transformation, and you can start to see as the customer got smart. [00:44:45] Jay McBain: The eBooks, they read the podcasts, they listened to the events they went to. You start to see how this played out over the long term. But the thing we’ve never had in our industry is the light blue boxes. This deal was won and lost in December. In this particular case, NTT software won and Yash came in and sold the customer five projects. [00:45:07] Jay McBain: The millions of dollars that were going to be spent were solved here. The design and architecture work was all done here. A couple of ISVs You see in light blue came in right at the end, deal was closed in April. You see the six month cycle. But what if you could fill in every one of the 28 boxes in every single customer prospect that your sales and marketing team have? [00:45:30] Jay McBain: But here’s the brilliance of this. Those light blue boxes didn’t win the deals there. They won the deals months before that. So when NTT and Software one walked into this deal. They probably won the deal back in October and they had to go through the redlining. They had to go through the contracting, they had to go through all the stuff and the Gantt chart to get started. [00:45:54] Jay McBain: But while your CMO is getting all excited about somebody reading an ebook and triggering an MQL that the sales team doesn’t want, ’cause it’s not qualified, it’s not sales qualified, you walk in and say, no, no. This is a multimillion deal, dollar deal. It’s AstraZeneca. I know the five partners that are coming in in December to solidify the seven layers, and you’re walking in at the same time as the CMOs bragging about an ebook. [00:46:21] Jay McBain: This changes everything. If we could get to this level of data about every dollar of our tam, we not only outgrow our competitors, we become the platforms of the next generation. Partnering and ultimate partnering is all here. And this is what we’re doing in this room. This is what we’re doing over these couple of days, and this is what, uh, the mission that Vince is leading. [00:46:43] Jay McBain: Thank you so much. [00:46:47] Vince Menzione: Woo. Day in the house. Good to see you my friend. Good to see you. Oh, we’re gonna spend a couple minutes. Um, I’m put you in the second seat. We’re gonna put, we’re gonna make it sit fireside for a minute. Uh, that was intense. It was pretty incredible actually, Jay. And so I’m, I think I wanna open it up ’cause we only have a few minutes just to, any questions? [00:47:06] Vince Menzione: I’m sure people are just digesting. We already have one up here. See, [00:47:09] Question: Jay knows I’m [00:47:10] Vince Menzione: a question. I love it. We, I don’t think we have any I can grab a mic, a roving mic. I could be a roving mic person. Hold on. We can do this. This is not on. [00:47:25] Vince Menzione: Test, test. Yes it is. Yeah. [00:47:26] Question: Theresa Carriol dared me to ask a question and I say, you don’t have to dare me. You know, I’m going to Anyway. Um, so Jay, of the point of view that with all of the new AI players that strategic alliances is again having a moment, and I was curious your point of view on what you’re seeing around this emergence and trend of strategic alliances and strategic alliance management. [00:47:52] Question: As compared to channel management. And what are you seeing in terms of large vendors like AWS investing in that strategic alliance role versus that channel role training, enablement, measurement, all that good stuff? [00:48:06] Jay McBain: Yeah, it’s, it’s a great question. So when I told the story about toast at the restaurant or Square or Clover, they’re not call, they’re not gonna call open AI or Nvidia themselves either. [00:48:17] Jay McBain: When you look out at the 250,000 ISVs. That make up this AI stack, there is the layers that happen there. So the Alliance with AWS, the alliance they have with Microsoft or Google is going to be how they generate agent AI in their platforms. So when I talk about a seven layer stack, the average deal being seven layers, AI is gonna drive this to nine, and then 11, then probably 13. [00:48:44] Jay McBain: So in terms of how alliances work, I had it up there as one of the five core strategies, and I think it’s pretty even. You can have the best alliances in the world, but if the seven partners trusted by the customer don’t know what that alliance is and the benefits to the customer and never mention it, it’s all for Naugh. [00:49:00] Jay McBain: If you’re go-to market, you’re co-selling, your co-marketing strategies are not built around that alliance. It’s all for naught. If the integration and the co-innovation, the co-development, the all the co-creation work that’s done inside these alliances isn’t translated to customer outcomes, it’s all for naugh. [00:49:17] Jay McBain: These are all five parallel swim lanes. All five are absolutely critically needed. And I think they’re all five pretty equally weighted in terms of needing each other. Yes. To be successful in the era of platforms. Yeah. [00:49:32] Vince Menzione: And the problem is they’re all stove pipe today. If, if at all. Yeah. Maintained, right. [00:49:36] Vince Menzione: Alliances is an example. Channels and other example. They don’t talk to one another. Judge any, we’ve got a mic up here if anybody else has. Yep. We have some questions here, Jacqueline. [00:49:51] Question: So when we’re developing our channel programs, any advice on, you know, what’s the shift that we should make six months from now, a year from now? The historical has been bronze, silver, gold, right? And you’ve got your deal registration, but what’s the future look like? [00:50:05] Jay McBain: Yeah, so I mean, the programs are, are changing to, to the point where the customer should be in the middle and realizing the seven partners you need to win the deal. [00:50:15] Jay McBain: And depending on what category of product you’re in, security, how much you rely on resell, 91.6%. You know, the channel partners are gonna be critical where the customer spends the money. And if you’re adding friction to that process, you’re adding friction in terms of your growth. So you know, if you’re in cybersecurity, you have to have a pretty wide open reseller model. [00:50:39] Jay McBain: You have to have a wide open distribution model, and you have to make sure you’re there at that point of sale. While at the same time, considering the other six partners at moment 12 who are in either saying nice things about you or not, the customer might even be starting with you. ’cause there is actually one thing that I didn’t mention when I showed the 28 moments filled in. [00:51:00] Jay McBain: You’ll notice that the customer went to AWS twice direct. AWS lost the deal. Microsoft won the deal software. One is Microsoft’s biggest reseller in the world. They just acquired crayon. NTT who, who loves both had their Microsoft team go in. [00:51:18] Question: Mm. [00:51:19] Jay McBain: So I think that they went to AWS thinking it was A-W-S-S-A-P, you know, kind of starting this seven layer stack. [00:51:25] Jay McBain: I think they finished those, you know, critical moments in the middle looking at it. And then they went back to AWS kind of going probably WWTF. Yeah. What we thought was happening isn’t actually the outcome that was painted by our most trusted people. So, you know, to answer your question, listen to your partners. [00:51:43] Jay McBain: They want to be recognized for the other things they’re doing. You can’t be spending a hundred percent of the dollars at the point of sale. You gotta have a point of system that recognizes the point of sale, maybe even gold, silver, bronze, but recognizing that you’re paying for these other moments as well. [00:51:57] Jay McBain: Paying for alliances, paying for integrations and everything else, uh, in the cyber stack. And, um, you know, recognizing also the top 1000. So if I took your tam. And I overlaid those thousand logos. I would be walking into 2026 the best I could of showing my company logo by logo, where 80% of our TAM sits as wallet share, not by revenue. [00:52:25] Jay McBain: Remember, a million dollar partner is not a million dollar partner. One of them sells 1.2 million in our category. We should buy them a baseball cap and have ’em sit in the front row of our event. One of them sells $10 million and only sells our stuff if the customer asks. So my company should be looking at that $9 million opportunity and making sure my programs are writing the checks and my coverage. [00:52:48] Jay McBain: My capacity and capability planning is getting obsessed over that $9 million. My farmers can go over there, my hunters can go over here, and I should be submitting a list of a thousand sorted in descending order of opportunity. Of where my company can write program dollars into. [00:53:07] Vince Menzione: Great answer. All right. I, I do wanna be cognizant of time and the, all the other sessions we have. [00:53:14] Vince Menzione: So we’ll just take one other question if there are any here and if not, we’ll let I know. Jay, you’re gonna be mingling around for a little while before your flight. I’m [00:53:21] Jay McBain: here the whole day. [00:53:22] Vince Menzione: You, you’re the whole day. I see that Jay’s here the whole day. So if you have any other questions and, and, uh, sharing the deck is that. [00:53:29] Vince Menzione: Yep. Alright. We have permission to share the deck with the each of you as well. [00:53:34] Jay McBain: Alright, well thank you very much everyone. Jay. Great to have you.

This week, the third session of our Star Wars roleplaying adventure! The Hunt for Venn Sataii Episode III - The Inescapable Wheel 

Julie A. Parsons, MD Haberfield Endowed Chair in Pediatric Neuromuscular DisordersProfessor of Clinical Pediatrics and NeurologyUniversity of Colorado School of Medicine, Children's Hospital ColoradoAurora, CO, USAAs we talk about the gene transfer therapies and the modalities that we have to use, it's really interesting. Yesterday, with our keynote speaker, you could see this logarithmic growth of the use of gene transfer therapies for these disorders. If you look at the Venn diagram, you can see that really 27% almost of gene transfer therapies that are used are in musculoskeletal and neurology. For many of us as neurologists, we also take care of metabolic disorders.We really own right now this landscape, and of course, our two approved modalities are Onasemnogene and Delandistrogene. We're going to look at three different disorders, monogenic disorders, monogenic diseases, to typify what we look at in terms of some of the risks and benefits of these treatments. SMA, Duchenne, and X-linked myotubular myopathy are all rare disorders. They're all diseases that have a high unmet medical need and a significant disease burden.I think they're all good in terms of typifying where we are clinically with these disorders. The first question is, is it worth it? Are these effective treatments? We know from looking at the information about SMA that just looking early on, we know that if we treat kids early, that we do see a marked improvement in motor scores for kids that are treated early with Onasemnogene.In Duchenne, we have information that there is at least some improvement in the 4-5-year-olds in terms of motor skills treated with Delandistrogene. In terms of X-linked MTM, which was a very dramatic improvement, you could see that for boys who were basically traked, vented, and had no mobility, the bottom line, the blue line, is actually looking at ventilator dependence. Are they effective? Yeah, they're effective, but then we have to say, okay, what's the downside?The downside is that there's tremendous risk associated with treatment with these agents. If we really look at the sobering facts, we know that with SMA, there have been deaths, there have been fatalities related to thrombotic microangiopathy to patients who have liver failure, a couple of patients have died. With Onasemnogene, this is 4,000 plus doses that have so far been given. With Duchenne, unfortunately, many of us got the letter yesterday talking about an additional death in a patient treated with commercial Delandistrogene.We also know with some of the other agents, like fordadistrogene, patient died of heart failure, cardiac arrest, another patient who had acute respiratory syndrome with pulmonary edema. Again, we look at this and say this is significant. With X-linked MTM, as Alan said, there were some unanticipated deaths, four deaths from patients who ended up having cholestatic liver diseases that really wasn't anticipated prior to the patients being treated with the animal models and all that we had. Then many of you have heard about the patient with Rett syndrome who had a systemic hyperinflammatory syndrome. Again, these are rare disorders. They have a high disease burden, but the risk of treatment is significant.In the next part, Dr. Parsons discuss factors impacting safety and efficacy of AAV-mediated gene therapies.

In this episode, I explore a concept that immediately stopped me in my tracks: the otrovert.I first encountered this idea when my wife shared an article with me and said, “This feels like you.” The article introduced the term otrovert—someone who isn't quite an introvert or an extrovert, but a person who can enjoy people deeply while still feeling fundamentally outside of groups.That moment sent me down a rabbit hole. I bought the Kindle edition of The Gift of Not Belonging by Rami Kaminsky, read it in a weekend, and then bought the hardcover because I knew this was a concept I wanted to stay with and think alongside my clinical work, my own life, and this podcast.In this episode, I slow things down and really unpack what Kaminsky means by the otrovert:– what it explains about personality and belonging– how it differs from introversion, social anxiety, or misanthropy– the quiet pain of being “other” in a joiner-oriented culture– and the unexpected gifts that can come from not being pulled toward group identityI also spend time carefully exploring how the idea of the otrovert might have a Venn diagram relationship with autism—without collapsing personality into diagnosis or difference into disorder.This is an episode for anyone who has felt socially capable but never quite drawn to belonging, who prefers depth over groups, or who has always lived slightly to the side of the herd and wondered why.Sometimes the right word doesn't box us in.Sometimes it gives us room to breathe.

From 2007 to 2009 Harlequin Books published FORTY NASCAR-sanctioned romance novels with such titles as "Checkered Past" (Get it?) and "Speed Dating" (GET IT?). Now Hallmark has one-upped the sports cross-marketing machine with not only a series of NFL-licensed "Holiday Touchdown" Christmas movies but a veritable MCU-style shared universe of characters—including an ever-present Santa! It all started last year with "Holiday Touchdown: A Chiefs Love Story," which we did not watch. But we come back strong with this year's "Holiday Touchdown: A Bills Love Story," featuring a huge roster of past and present Buffalo Bills players, a rather sizeable role for the Bills coach, and a story that features absolutely none of the Bills in the titular romance no matter how much you may have shipped the teammates. But if you like football, "Sopranos" cast members, and fall within that rather specific Venn diagram of "ER" and "Parker Lewis Can't Lose" fans, then THIS is the yuletide treat for you. Point is, watch "Parker Lewis Can't Lose" again. It was a great show. Happy Sportsball!

In this episode, Dr. John Barnes welcomes Lindsay Venn, PA-C, RD, MPH—a clinician with rare dual training in medicine and nutrition, and a founding member of the Society of Metabolic Health Practitioners. Lindsay shares her journey into integrative, root-cause metabolic care and the mission behind Venn Integrative Medicine, her multi-state telehealth practice.Together, John and Lindsay unpack the science and real-world implications of insulin resistance—what it is, why it's so widespread, and how it drives a long list of symptoms and chronic conditions. Lindsay explains how IR develops, why it's often not your fault, and how conventional dietary guidelines contributed to the modern metabolic crisis.They also explore why insulin resistance shows up differently in women's health, influencing everything from PCOS and fertility to the hormonal transitions of perimenopause and menopause. Lindsay breaks down the key labs and biomarkers she evaluates in clinical practice (A1C, fasting insulin, glucose patterns, hormone profiles) and why fasting glucose alone is not enough to assess metabolic health.The episode wraps with a grounded discussion of GLP-1 medications—their potential role, their limitations and concerns, and how people can boost their own GLP-1 production naturally with low-carb/keto nutrition, specific supplements, and  lifestyle strategies.If you want a clear, compassionate, clinically grounded explanation of insulin resistance—and why women are uniquely affected—this is an episode you won't want to miss. 

In this episode of Influencing Entrepreneurs, Steven Seidel shares how grief, a McDonald's “fries at the bottom of the bag” memory, and a childhood hearing challenge shaped his work around connection, mission, and purpose driven business. He and Cass dig into what a real personal mission looks like, using a simple Venn of skills, passion, and values, plus the line “I help X do Y so that C” to clarify your message. Steven also explains his path from industrial engineer to actor to agency founder, why he chooses socially conscious brands, and how mission, message, media, and movement connect to systems, strategies, and solutions. Expect practical ideas like naming your own “diss track,” questioning old stories about work, and using questions like “what do we need to do, delegate, or delete” to shape your next step. Learn more about Steve Seidel at: https://theseidelagency.com Like this video? Subscribe Now to Influencing Entrepreneurs: @nexagyeducation Interested in learning about Cassmer Ward? Visit: www.nexagy.com

In this episode I chat with Todd Wenning, a seasoned investment professional with experience at Ensemble Capital, Morningstar, and the Motley Fool about some of the most critical aspects of successful investing: moats, management, and buying companies at the right price. We based this conversation on this Venn diagram that Todd published on X (Twitter) in 2017. For those eager to dive deeper into Todd's investment philosophy and to discover hidden gems in the market, visit Flyover Stocks.Here's a link to the blog post: https://www.sharesforbeginners.com/blog/todd-wenning-flyover-stocks

The Ghost Furnace - Episode 140 "Commonwealth Canines"   On this week's episode we dive back into the strange stories in the Venn diagram of upright canines, dogmen and werewolves. Everytime we look into this area, we find a new perspective and takes on what people might be seeing. Are they just dogs, are they neighbors suffering from lycanthropy, dogmen, out of place animals? Almost all of the answers, even the mundane ones, are curious at their most harmless and terrifying at their most extreme.    Here are links to the articles we reference this week. Please check out Lon and his work at Phantoms & Monsters.    MASSIVE QUADRUPEDAL CRYPTID CANINE Crosses Road in Broad Daylight Near Skelp Mountain, Pennsylvania COLOSSAL TREE-CLIMBING CRYPTID CANINE Encountered in Birdsboro Preserve, Pennsylvania MASSIVE UPRIGHT CANINE ENCOUNTER on Rt. 422 Near Pottstown, PA, Leaves Multiple Witnesses Frightened and Searching for Answers BLACK, SPIKED-HAIRED BIPEDAL CRYPTID Terrifies Resident in Doylestown, Pennsylvania MASSIVE QUADRUPEDAL CANINE Encountered in Karthaus Township, Pennsylvania Leaves Family Shaken   Remember to check out Stole Survivor anywhere you find high fashion and functional garments and use our exclusive code: IvanDragoWasTheMoralllySuperiorCharacterInRockyIV     If you have a story you'd like to share, please reach out on Instagram, YouTube or TheGhostFurnacePodcast@gmail.com

Jennifer Keeley and Mary Whittenhall, experienced nurse practitioners in the field of pulmonary hypertension, discuss the management of cough in patients receiving inhaled therapies for pulmonary hypertension and interstitial lung disease. #GossamerBioPartner #sponsored This Special Edition episode is sponsored by Gossamer Bio. Jennifer Keeley, DPN: My name's Jennifer Keeley. I'm a nurse practitioner and I practice in a large academic institution in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Allegheny Health Network, specifically Allegheny General Hospital. I am a nurse practitioner there and have been in the clinic over 10 years, and in the PH space as a nurse practitioner for over 15 years, as a registered nurse for almost 20 years. So, I have a lot of experience and I'm really excited to be here today to talk about inhaled therapies and cough. Mary Whittenhall, MSN: My name is Mary Whittenhall. I'm also a nurse practitioner. I am currently an advanced practice provider at Pulmonary and Sleep Associates in East Providence, Rhode Island. I've been in pulmonary hypertension for about 11 years now. In that time, I have worked in a variety of settings, both inpatient and outpatient, managing patients with pulmonary vascular disease, and have also touched upon patients with interstitial lung disease and pulmonary hypertension.  I get very excited when I hear about new opportunities for our PH patients. I think a lot about even when I started in pulmonary hypertension and the therapies that were available to our patients. Many of these therapies had been around for a little bit of time. But also something that I think is extremely exciting is that there's just been a rapid progression in development of therapies. And now, with the focus of looking at these therapies as potentially disease modifying, not necessarily slowing the progression of disease. With the advent of all of these new therapies, there become more options for our patients, as well. Often, patients can't tolerate some of the medications that we have due to side effects and despite lots of work to manage these side effects, the patients are not always successful. One of the great things being involved in an academic center is that we have the ability to help link patients to cutting edge research, particularly looking at a new drug that is an inhaled therapy that has shown significant promise in improving the lives of patients with pulmonary hypertension. As a part of the PH community, we all do quite a bit of networking with each other, as well as with our patients and other colleagues in the space. In that time, we did network regarding the study and have participated in some activities where we're looking at the data from the Phase 2 part of this trial and then also looking at some of the side effect management related to the medication, which seemingly is well tolerated. However, for some patients it may not come extremely easy. I think that's where the role of the nurse or the advanced practice provider really comes in this space is that we have a real strong dedication to helping educate patients about ways to manage these side effects. We want patients to be able to continue with therapies. We don't want them to say, "Well, this isn't working for me, it's time to move on." I think that we have a lot of strategies and a lot of experience with trying to help patients really figure out the best way to manage these things and to be confident that they can continue on with obviously the biggest benefit of improving their pulmonary vascular disease. Jennifer Keeley, DPN: We actually met at an advisory board last year. It was an advisory board consistent of registered nurses and nurse practitioners who, just like Mary and myself, have vast experience with patients and therapies, not just in the inhaled space, but more conventional pulmonary vasodilator medications that have been used in our patients for many, many years. As Mary had suggested before, when we start to think about newer agents, many, many of them are not the conventional pulmonary vasodilator medications, but disease modifying agents. Now, we've acquired an armamentarium of medications. So, inhaled delivery is just a really great option to avoid systemic side effects on top of each other. Our PH patients today, many of them are on more than three therapies, many of them are on four or even more therapies, so the delivery of the medication is just one aspect. When we talk about cough and side effects, I like to think about it and explain to my patient when we talk about side effects, particularly cough, to imagine a Venn diagram with cough being in the middle and what affects cough. You see this outward circle, how we deliver it, what kind of device we deliver it in. The drug, how small, large are the particle size? Is it easy enough to use for our patients? The formulation, is it dry powdered versus inhaled aerosolized? And then finally, just the patient themselves. What's their background? What type of PAH do they have? So, we can talk a little bit more about this, but just to get us started, this is how this developed and we had a lovely advisory board meeting with seralutinib and Gossamer Bio, and this was the outcome of it. We produced a lovely poster. This is a conversation if you will, that Mary and I are going to have based on what we talked about and the poster production, that came out of that wonderful advisory board. Mary Whittenhall, MSN: Inhaled therapies are unique in a way in that they actually have direct access to the lungs. So, when you think of an oral medication, an oral medication needs to be digested in the gut and sometimes that systemic digestion takes a while. Additionally, it's also often that we see patients that have more systemic side effects when we're using an oral formulation. Intravenous or subcutaneous formulations of these medications tend to cause pretty strong systemic side effects for patients, and there tends to be a lot of management that we need to do to help make these side effects more tolerable. For most of our patients, I say to them, "You're going to think I'm cruel because I don't really want these side effects to go away." In a way, we look at them almost as if you have a cup and your cup is full of water and after the top of the water hits the rim of the cup, then the water starts to spill over onto the sides of the cup. I think of other medications that we typically prescribe for patients in that way that when we get that spill over, so to speak, it's an indication that we've actually targeted all of those receptors that we want to help with vasodilation. Now that we're looking at other medications that don't really necessarily look at vasodilation, we're looking more at treating the blood vessels in a different way or affecting the process for which those blood vessels become diseased. I think that the side effects become different and I think they become less. In working with inhaled therapies, as you can imagine, the number one side effect that most patients will complain of is cough. Sometimes we have patients who have an underlying cough already, and that's usually not related to PAH, but in PH-ILD where we now have an FDA indication to use another inhaled therapy, we've seen in treating these patients that baseline cough is something that is extremely problematic for them before they even start therapies. So, trying to find ways to improve that baseline cough, treat any underlying symptoms, things like acid reflux as well, that may cause that, treating seasonal allergies, et cetera, and then, obviously, managing any additional overlapping side effects that may occur because of the new therapy that they're on. Jennifer Keeley, DPN: I think that's a really important part, is to talk with the patient, educate the patient on these inhaled therapies. First and foremost, that cough is almost an expected side effect. These are patients particularly with our interstitial lung disease patients that have PAH, cough is a part of their daily life. It's important to document and ascertain what these patients' baseline cough is. In many, many clinics, particularly pulmonary PAH clinics, and I'm sure much like Mary's, many of my colleagues have recommended using validated cough questionnaires so that we can get a really, really good baseline of what that patient's baseline cough is. Are you coughing at night? Do you have mucus? How long have you been coughing? Does it interfere with the quality of your life? Do you cough at night? Does it keep you up? Does it interrupt your sleep? Those kinds of things that help differentiate acute cough versus chronic cough. Many of these patients cough every day. They also have other inhaled therapies such as our ILD patients that are also on corticosteroids, many of them on inhaled corticosteroid therapy that can thin the oral pharynx, the posterior pharynx, and really affect the degree of nerve innervation in the posterior pharynx in the mouth. So, just really understanding what the patient's baseline cough is and educating them on the fact that cough is likely going to be a side effect with the use of this inhaled therapy. Certainly, as we continue to use the therapy, we would hope that the cough can be mitigated either through some lifestyle modifications, some natural remedies, and even some medical remedies such as bronchodilators. But really teaching the patient about the medication and inherently that this is likely going to induce a cough, but that we have mitigation strategies to help dissipate the cough. I always like to tell my patients also in the clinical trials, particularly the Phase 2 clinical trials that are out there that patients had a lot of cough. The patients on drug that were in most of the Phase 2 clinical trials for seralutinib and even for treprostinil inhaled, 30 to 40% of them experienced cough. But at the same token, the placebo-based patients that did not receive drug in these Phase 2 clinical trials also had a lot of cough. So, what that's telling you is yes, you're going to get probably some more cough, but it's likely not going to be that much or more far advanced than the cough that you're already experiencing. I also think it's important to tell these patients, many, many patients that experienced cough did not stop the medication. Actually, in these Phase 2 clinical trials, very few stop the medication. So, that gives you a really good big picture that we are pretty good at educating our patients how to mitigate cough, and if we aren't, then we should learn how to do so. Mary Whittenhall, MSN: I think it's important for us to set some expectations for patients when we're talking about cough. We've already discussed a bit that cough can happen for people from other things outside of their lung disease, but it's important to also look at what may be causing the cough when we are giving a patient an inhaled therapy. So, any type of inhaled therapy, whether that be a dry powder, a mist, whether that's nebulized or through in actuated inhaler, there are particles inside of that medication as it's going in and those little particles, when your lungs inhale that medication, those particles are penetrating your lungs and your lungs are not accustomed to them being there. It's almost as if your lungs are saying, "I don't recognize this. I don't know why this is here," and it may feel like it's an irritant, so you may start coughing as a result of that, but the cough is not necessarily a bad thing. Those particles are there, and the job is to essentially help deliver the medicine to penetrate that lung tissue and then for your body then to absorb the medicine. Your airways and your blood vessels inside of your lungs are extremely close to each other. So, when you inhale that medication, those little blood vessels are also right next to where those airways are, and then that is how those blood vessels then absorb that medication, because they're so close to the site at which those particles come into your lungs. Jennifer Keeley, DPN: I think this is an important concept to understand. They choose the form of delivery based on the goal of delivering the most medication efficiently to the distal bronchioles. That's where the disease is. It's in the distal arteries. So, trying to formulate how we get these very powerful, oftentimes disease modifying agents into the periphery of the lungs can be very challenging. Dry powdered inhaler is one form that the variability of delivery is not as dispersed as an aerosolized. So, it's more efficient delivery to the place where the medication needs to work the best, and that's in the distal periphery of the lungs. Unfortunately, one thing you have to deal with is that oftentimes these medications, dry powdered medications, not just in the PH space, but there's a lot of other dry powdered inhalers in the COPD space, as well. Oftentimes, what happens is these powdered particles get dispersed extra thoracically. So, they get dispersed in the oral mucosa, in the posterior pharynx, on the way down into the stomach. That's wherein we have to deal with mitigating side effects. The biggest side effect of these particles, even though they're very small, is cough. So, technique comes into play. Mitigating things to coat the posterior pharynx come into play. Re-education comes into play. Show me again how you're doing this inhalation, because I don't think that you're holding this okay. In one instance, I had a patient that was inhaling dry powdered inhaler with the medication right out of the refrigerator. So, the medication was cold. It was clumping at the back of her throat. All of these things really take into consideration how we most efficiently get the medicine to these pulmonary arterial hypertension patients where their disease is oftentimes very difficult to get to, and other forms of medications that are systemic, orals, parenterals that have first pass metabolism, and so you're going to get more side effects from those medications. So, I always teach my patients, "Hey, we're a couple steps ahead because we're bypassing the type of metabolism that you get with orals and even parenterals." Mary Whittenhall, MSN: There are so many challenges that these patients face. Oftentimes, patients have never been sick before they develop this, and now we're putting them on multiple therapies, multiple modalities, telling them that there's going to be side effects and they need to learn how to manage them. It's certainly a lot to handle. But I think one of the best things that we have in our PH community is that we really work so hard to partner with the patients and their loved ones and forming this relationship, fostering that relationship as time goes on, I believe that these patients really do trust us and that what we're telling them is things are going to be okay. We are going to be there by your side. We're not going to give you this medicine and then say, "See you in six months. Hope everything goes well." We're really going to be working with them. In some cases in my specialty clinic, we have nurses, we have a pharmacist, a pharmacy tech, and then our advanced practice providers that check in with these patients quite regularly. We are actually taking the initiative to reach out to them versus the patient who may be having trouble advocating for themselves or feeling like, "Really, I don't want to be a pain, but this is challenging for me." We are really in touch with them, and that connection also helps to keep patients on therapy. So, what are some of the specific techniques to manage or mitigate cough? This is something that was a real hot topic at our last advisory meeting. We put together a bunch of folks in the room who deal with other inhaled therapies and patients that have cough and said, "Well, what do you tell patients to do?" First and foremost is to look at any other potentially underlying conditions that may be causing cough and ensure that treatment of those underlying conditions is optimized. I think cough is actually the number one referral for any type of pulmonary practice, but it is a really, really broad differential when it comes down to it. We obviously look first at things like environmental factors. If this could be seasonal allergies, then we try treating patients with antihistamines. Perhaps some of those are intranasal, as well, that may help with some things like rhinorrhea or post nasal drip. Acid reflux is actually a huge, huge reason for cough. Many patients say, 'Well, I don't get acid reflux. I don't feel that burning in my chest after I eat," but come to find out that it can actually be a silent trigger. So, treating patients with medicines that help to reduce acid or suppress acid will oftentimes help with that cough. On top of that, when we're dealing with patients that are on inhalers and now we're adding another inhaled therapy. I find that for some patients that are on actual inhalers that sometimes they do better with nebulized treatments. The nebulized treatments are slower, and may have a bit of a better penetration into the lungs and the patients tend to like it. It is one of those things that you do need to be compliant with in order to really see the benefits to it. I will say that oftentimes, again, partnering with the patient, giving them specific instructions about how to do all of this, we can really see some improvement to those symptoms. Then, there's just basic over-the counter measures and precautions, things like making sure that when you're eating that you're not laying down at least for 60 minutes after you've been eating. If you do have acid reflux, trying to sleep with two pillows or a wedge pillow, that can help to keep the head of your bed elevated. Some of our patients have those really fancy adjustable beds that are also quite helpful for that. I think that sometimes things like basic cough drops actually can be quite wonderful and helpful. Drinking very cold or very warm water or tea, adding some honey to that if a patient isn't diabetic, things like that tend to really help with cough. We reinforce these measures when we start therapies like this. Jennifer Keeley, DPN: In terms of mitigation, I think it's really important on technique. This is why, as Mary had alluded to, it's so important to follow up closely with these patients, particularly our elderly patients who sometimes don't, if they have connective tissue disease or scleroderma, have a lot of good fine motor coordination. A couple of things that I wanted to touch on with regards to that… One, these inhalers are typically high resistance, low flow. So, these are not the type of patients that need to be taking in very forceful inhalations with these inhalers and thank goodness, because we're talking about patients that have inflammatory interstitial lung disease, as well as pulmonary vascular disease. So their degree of inspiratory effort is actually minimal to disperse that medication to the distal pulmonary bronchials. It's equivalent to them taking a deep breath in when you ask them to auscultate their lungs. So it's not a big forceful breath. The other thing is too, a lot of times, sometimes more variability in the disbursement of the drug is better in compliance with some patients. Dry-powdered inhalers, again, do not take a very big forceful effort, but some of them, because they are powder, some of the medication will actually hit the back of the throat as it goes down and can cause some irritation, whereas the nebulized form does have a variability in disbursement and can be more easily tolerated in some. The other issue is the technique itself. Oftentimes, we ask them in some of the inhaled therapies to lower the device itself so that the tongue doesn't protrude and get in the way, because if medication gets on the tongue, the next swallow that they take, that medication is going to hit their posterior pharynx, and they're going to probably cough pretty aggressively. I always start off by telling my patients, "Cough is not a bad thing. It's actually a protective reflex and it's involuntary. So, if you cough, don't actually negate it. Don't think it's a bad thing." It's actually a very protective mechanism that avoids irritation in most of our patients probably already irritated mucosa. So, that's how I like to start the conversation. There's so many good techniques that we can share with them over time, and I might add that each patient is different. Each patient needs to have a personalized plan. When we talk about giving patients warm tea, typically chamomile, chamomile tea in itself is anti-inflammatory. Then, when you add something like honey, which is also a soothing, anti-inflammatory natural remedy, you have to really think to yourself, "They're getting honey. If they're diabetic, we don't want to give them too much honey." But, you have to make sure that their swallowing technique is good. There's no aspiration there, particularly if we give them cough drops. Then, just simple things that actually numb or anesthetize the back of the throat are very, very helpful for elderly patients who do have very friable tissue and mucosa from previous therapies like inhaled corticosteroids, as I had talked about before. Dairy products, I tend to ask my patients to avoid those. They can produce a lot of mucus, which these coughs that we see in our inhaled therapy patients are typically tend to be dry coughs, but some patients that have concomitant asthma, COPD, along with their ILD that are using these inhaled therapies can actually have more of a congested mucoid cough. So, avoiding dairy before and after use is always very smart. Avoiding alcohol, avoiding acidic drinks like orange juice, also very, very helpful. Mary Whittenhall, MSN: The part about technique I think is so, so important here. Oftentimes, when patients start these therapies, when they are approved in that space, the specialty pharmacy has a nurse educator that will come out to the patient's home and provide education not only about the medication, but about the administration of that medication. In many cases, the patients will take their first dose while the nurse is present so that the nurse can then critique whether or not the patient took it appropriately and how they tolerated it. I'm going to give a shout out to our nurse educators from the specialty pharmacies, because they are also a really crucial set of eyes and ears for us out in the community. They do provide education to the patients in the home. We have had situations where the patient has done well while the nurse is there, and then two weeks later we get a call from the patient saying, "I can't do this. This isn't working for me." And I'll say, "Okay. Well, you have a couple options. We can have you come in to the clinic and I want you to bring your device with you, and I would like to watch you do a treatment, or I can have the nurse come out and see you again and go over that." And they'll say, "I already know what I'm doing. I don't need that." But in many instances, we have found that they have adjusted their technique. They might've gotten into some bad habit since the nurse has left them. So, really reinforcing that is important. The other thing that I wanted to bring up is that some of our patients with connective tissue disease also have thickness in their tongues. So, their tongues become thicker and more sclerotome as their connective tissue disease progresses. For some of those patients, it is actually hard for them to get their tongue flat enough so that they can get the medication down into their lungs. So, working with those patients to find strategies to help rectify that. I will say that it is not impossible, it just takes maybe a little extra work. Jennifer Keeley, DPN: Inhaled therapies in themselves are pretty portable. Mary had alluded to a little bit earlier, our patients with pulmonary vascular disease, PAH, that are on parenteral therapies, delivering the conventional pulmonary vasodilator therapies. As we get into the new disease modifying agents such as seralutinib, which are anti-fibrotic, anti-inflammatory, anti-prolific medications, these are portable therapies that are actually modifying the disease. So they're portable. They're easy to use. They're easy to use for our patients, again, that are elderly or are younger and are still working, they have a professional life, they don't have to wear a pump that's 24/7 oftentimes. They can use these inhaled therapies first to see if they can avoid parenteral therapy with prostacyclins. Their quality of life is improved immensely. When you can take an inhaled therapy two to four times a day and really improve quality of life, decrease cough, decrease dyspnea, or shortness of breath on exertion. Sometimes, these patients that do very, very well can actually reduce their supplemental oxygen needs. Just improving their walk distances without having to stop or have excessive dyspnea, improves their quality of life. More time spent with loved ones and more time spent in social environments rather than sitting at home. These wonderful inhaled portable therapies have significantly changed our patients' lives and improved their quality of lives. Mary Whittenhall, MSN: This community I think is phenomenal. It's made up of so many great people. There are many patients who have been a part of this space for a long time who really want to help other patients who may be newer to the journey than them. I'm a big advocate for support groups. We've had an extremely active support group in our area for a long time, and I often partner some of my patients that have been with me for quite some time with some of the new patients that may need a bit more help. I can tell them things and my colleagues can tell them things. Oftentimes, the same message doesn't resonate. It resonates differently, I think when it comes from a peer, a patient who may have experienced the same thing as them. One of the things that I really try to drive home with our patients is just that sense of empowerment. Connect with these other folks in the community. They want to help you. They remember what it feels like being newly diagnosed or starting a new therapy or transitioning from another therapy. What that change is like. One of the other things I tell my patients is that we all sit at the same table. I'm not better than you. Maybe I have this information, but this information is for you. It's for you to take and to improve your life. If that information doesn't work for you, then you come back to me with some feedback and we come up with something else that's going to be more helpful to you. I really think having an equal playing field with them and having a very open and honest dialogue is what is going to help our patients do the best. If patients don't feel comfortable reaching out to other local patients or connecting with an in-person support group, there are tons of online resources through the PHA, through phaware®, Team Phenomenal Hope, lots of great groups out there that do things virtually. I think in some ways for some patients, anonymity is important, so being able to protect that is an option for them, but to be able to still get what they need so they can become the best advocate for themselves that they can. Jennifer Keeley, DPN: I stress so importantly to my patients, we are here today in this great environment and we have the armamentarium of medications to treat because of patients just like you that have contributed to the science of the disease and implemented themselves and engaged in these clinical trials. Right now we have an ongoing clinical trial for seralutinib called PROSERA, that's enrolling as we speak. Patients are the best advocates, not only for themselves, but for other patients, and they talk. There's a lot of social media out there where patients communicate amongst themselves and they say, "Through the help of my provider and through the help of my family, I was hesitant to start this additional therapy." They do have, at this juncture, and I don't think it's such a bad thing, they do have a little bit of a pharmacy burden now. Again, these aren't our patients that are on one or two therapies. They're on four or more oftentimes. When you take in our ILD patients, they're also on disease modifying agents, as well, for their interstitial lung disease. So again, I think it's really important for patients to communicate amongst themselves and share their ups and downs in the disease, but also share the rewards that come with surviving and living with PAH. I think one thing that we really do have to understand though is like many other chronic diseases, PH is a personalized disease. You need to have a personalized approach for your patients. That's why it's so very important to do a really good history of your patients and understand not only what their baseline cough is, but who they are, what their personal history is. Are they working? Who's helping to care for them? Who's helping to make that chamomile tea with honey? Who's going to the store to get that? A personalized approach is so important for these patients, I can't stress that enough. Mary Whittenhall, MSN: Special thanks to everybody involved in this project. This was extremely exciting. To my co-podcaster, Jennifer Keeley, who is amazing, and all of us in the PH community are extremely lucky to have her. We are all aware that you are all rare, and we are grateful to be able to help you in this journey. Jennifer Keeley, DPN: Thank you so much, Mary, and what a pleasure it's been to speak with you about cough and inhaled therapies, and thank you to Gossamer Bio for this opportunity and for the opportunity that led to this podcast, which was a significant advisory board amongst specialists in our field, advanced practice providers and registered nurses who were able to convene in a great open space and talk about this. I think this moves our science forward. It helps us to talk about the disease and take better care of our patients. Again, my name is Jennifer Keeley. It's been such a pleasure to deal with my good friend Mary Whittenhall today, and we're aware that our patients are very rare. Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on instagram, facebook and x.com @phaware. Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware Share your story: info@phaware.com Like, Subscribe and Follow us: www.phawarepodcast.com. #phawareMD #PHILD @GossamerBio @AHNtoday

“Christmas Movies with Shaun”It's Christmas time. Why not invite Shaun to a conversation about something we both like. Christmas movies. We randomly found a list of the top 20 of all time and went from there. Some on the list were obvious, It's a Wonderful Life, Love Actually, A Muppet Christmas Carol, and other more recent ones didn't make the cut like, The Family Stone and The Holiday. There were the earlier ones which I look on fondly, The Grinch Who Stole Christmas, A Charlie Brown Christmas. Not so much for Shaun. His nostalgia is for when he was growing up. Makes sense. It's like a Venn diagram. His, mine, and the ones we both like in the middle like Daddy's Home 2. Then there is the newest contender, Spirited. It's a musical with Will Ferrell and Ryan Reynolds. My bar for this was so low it was on the ground. Not sure why, no offense to either actor. Maybe it was it being yet another Christmas Carol adaptation. Turns out it was better than I expected and I really did enjoy it. Shaun hasn't seen it yet but he's added it to the list of the ones he wants to watch. And I said I'd check out the sequel to A Christmas Story. Who knows, I may add another to my annual viewing list. Thanks for being part of the UY conversation.The Unabashed You website has a page for each guest of photos, quotes and a blog with embedded audio at unabashedyou.com. You can find the show on other podcast platforms.Want to lend your support and encouragement? We invite you to follow, rate, review and share.Social media (direct links):FacebookInstagramYouTubeIf you have questions or comments email us at: unabashedyou@gmail.com.We build upon on website visits, social media and word of mouth to share these episodes. We appreciate growth knowing these conversations help you think, celebrate who you are, and move you in some way.So be encouraged and continue to listen, read and be inspired.

We have another episode in a series of discussions with well-vetted guests from companies that I feel my community would benefit from hearing about Today, I speak with Dr. Stephanie Venn Watson, a veterinary epidemiologist and the co-founder and co-CEO of Serafina Therapeutics. She has worked with the World Health Organization, DARPA, and the US Navy. She has over 70 patents and has authored more than 80 peer-reviewed scientific papers, and her discoveries have featured on NPR, Science Friday, BBC, NBC, and National Geographic. Her groundbreaking discoveries around the health benefits of C15:0 are the topic of a recent book. In our conversation today, we explore longevity molecules and geno-protective molecules, why they matter, and how they work. We cover the basics of rapamycin and glucophage, then dig into the growing body of research on longevity and lifespan, specifically looking at C15:0, what it is, what it does, why it's important, and how it's the first essential fatty acid discovered in decades. We look at its wide-ranging pleiotropic effects on metabolic health, mood, sleep, the brain, gut, and immunity, as well as the signs of low C15:0 levels and the specific labs that can identify a deficiency. We also talk about the benefits of supplementation and improved bioavailability.  Since I have been taking C15:0 myself over the last four to five months and noticed improvements in my recovery and sleep, I'm excited to share this informative and helpful conversation, humbly dedicated to the essential saturated fatty acid, C15:0. IN THIS EPISODE, YOU WILL LEARN: • The role C15:0 plays in guiding the aging process and new findings about its benefits for the immune  system, brain, and longevity • C15:0's emerging importance as a key player in metabolic balance • What Dr. Venn-Watson's animal studies revealed about the mechanisms of aging in humans • Why women in midlife become more vulnerable to shifts in immune quality and cellular resilience • The ways nutritional deficiencies can appear in blood markers long before symptoms develop • What occurs with red blood cell stability and aging markers when C15:0 levels are too low • Which biomarkers are now being considered early indicators of biological aging • Formulation features of C15:0 that enhance its bioavailability • The multiple bodily systems that can benefit from supplementing with C15:0 Connect with Cynthia Thurlow   Follow on ⁠X⁠, ⁠Instagram⁠ & ⁠LinkedIn⁠ Check out Cynthia's ⁠website⁠ Submit your questions to ⁠support@cynthiathurlow.com⁠ Join other like-minded women in a supportive, nurturing community (The Midlife Pause/Cynthia Thurlow) ⁠https://www.facebook.com/groups/themidlifepause⁠ Cynthia's ⁠Menopause Gut Book ⁠is on presale now! Cynthia's ⁠Intermittent Fasting Transformation⁠ Book ⁠The Midlife Pause supplement line⁠ Connect with Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson ⁠Fatty 15⁠ ⁠Discover C15:0⁠ ⁠Seraphina Therapeutics⁠ On⁠ LinkedIn⁠

In this episode of Gangland Wire, Gary Jenkins interviews bestselling author Mark Shaw about his explosive new research into the JFK and RFK assassinations — and the hidden role of New Orleans Mafia boss Carlos Marcello. Shaw breaks down newly uncovered FBI documents, including Marcello's alleged 1985 prison confession claiming involvement in JFK's murder. We explore Marcello's long-running war with Robert Kennedy, the suspicious death of journalist Dorothy Kilgallen, and significant inconsistencies in the official story of RFK's assassination. This conversation challenges the lone-gunman narrative and exposes how organized crime, politics, and government investigations may have collided to shape American history. Subscribe to get notified about new content. 0:10 The Kennedy Connection 21:37 Sirhan’s Background Uncovered 31:56 The Role of Marcello in Assassinations 44:54 The Quest for Justice

Trusting the process is a really important way to free yourself, and the film, to discover what it is.Viridiana Lieberman is an award-winning documentary filmmaker. She recently edited the Netflix sensation The Perfect Neighbor.In this interview we talk:* Viri's love of the film Contact* Immersion as the core goal in her filmmaking* Her editing tools and workflow* Film school reflections* The philosophy and process behind The Perfect Neighbor — crafting a fully immersive, evidence-only narrative and syncing all audio to its original image.* Her thoughts on notes and collaboration* Techniques for seeing a cut with fresh eyesYou can see all of Viri's credits on her IMD page here.Thanks for reading The Creativity, Education, and Leadership Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.Here is an AI-generated transcript of our conversation. Don't come for me.BEN: Viri, thank you so much for joining us today.VIRI: Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.BEN: And I always like to start with a fun question. So senior year of high school, what music were you listening to?VIRI: Oh my goodness. Well, I'm class of 2000, so I mean. I don't even know how to answer this question because I listen to everything.I'm like one of those people I was raving, so I had techno in my system. I have a lot of like, um. The, like, everything from Baby Ann to Tsta. Like, there was like, there was a lot, um, Oak and like Paul Oak and Full, there was like techno. Okay. Then there was folk music because I loved, so Ani DeFranco was the soundtrack of my life, you know, and I was listening to Tori Amos and all that.Okay. And then there's like weird things that slip in, like fuel, you know, like whatever. Who was staying? I don't remember when they came out. But the point is there was like all these intersections, whether I was raving or I was at Warp Tour or I was like at Lili Fair, all of those things were happening in my music taste and whenever I get to hear those songs and like that, that back late nineties, um, rolling into the Ox.Yeah.BEN: I love the Venn diagram of techno and folk music.VIRI: Yeah.BEN: Yeah. What, are you a fan of the film inside Lou and Davis?VIRI: Uh, yes. Yes. I need to watch it again. I watched it once and now you're saying it, and I'm like writing it on my to-dos,BEN: but yes, it, it, the first time I saw it. I saw in the East Village, actually in the theater, and I just, I'm a Cohen Brothers fan, but I didn't love it.Mm-hmm. But it, it stayed on my mind and yeah. Now I probably rewatch it once a year. It might, yeah. In my, in my, on my list, it might be their best film. It's so good. Oh,VIRI: now I'm gonna, I'm putting it on my, I'm literally writing it on my, um, post-it to watch it.BEN: I'mVIRI: always looking for things to watch in the evening.BEN: What, what are some of the docs that kind of lit your flame, that really turned you on?VIRI: Uh, this is one of those questions that I, full transparency, get very embarrassed about because I actually did not have a path of documentary set for me from my film Loving Passion. I mean, when I graduated film school, the one thing I knew I didn't wanna do was documentary, which is hilarious now.Hilarious. My parents laugh about it regularly. Um. Because I had not had a good documentary education. I mean, no one had shown me docs that felt immersive and cinematic. I mean, I had seen docs that were smart, you know, that, but, but they felt, for me, they didn't feel as emotional. They felt sterile. Like there were just, I had seen the most cliched, basic, ignorant read of doc.And so I, you know, I dreamed of making space epics and giant studio films. Contact was my favorite movie. I so like there was everything that about, you know, when I was in film school, you know, I was going to see those movies and I was just chasing that high, that sensory high, that cinematic experience.And I didn't realize that documentaries could be. So it's not, you know, ever since then have I seen docs that I think are incredible. Sure. But when I think about my origin tale, I think I was always chasing a pretty. Not classic, but you know, familiar cinematic lens of the time that I was raised in. But it was fiction.It was fiction movies. And I think when I found Docs, you know, when I was, the very long story short of that is I was looking for a job and had a friend who made docs and I was like, put me in coach, you know, as an editor. And she was like, you've never cut a documentary before. I love you. Uh, but not today.But no, she hired me as an archival producer and then I worked my way up and I said, no, okay, blah, blah, blah. So that path showed me, like I started working on documentaries, seeing more documentaries, and then I was always chasing that cinema high, which by the way, documentaries do incredibly, you know, and have for many decades.But I hadn't met them yet. And I think that really informs. What I love to do in Docs, you know, I mean, I think like I, there's a lot that I like to, but one thing that is very important to me is creating that journey, creating this, you know, following the emotion, creating big moments, you know, that can really consume us.And it's not just about, I mean, not that there are films that are important to me, just about arguments and unpacking and education. At the same time, we have the opportunity to do so much more as storytellers and docs and we are doing it anyway. So that's, that's, you know, when, it's funny, when light my fire, I immediately think of all the fiction films I love and not docs, which I feel ashamed about.‘cause now I know, you know, I know so many incredible documentary filmmakers that light my fire. Um, but my, my impulse is still in the fiction world.BEN: Used a word that it's such an important word, which is immersion. And I, I first saw you speak, um, a week or two ago at the doc NYC Pro panel for editors, documentary editors about the perfect neighbor, which I wanna talk about in a bit because talk about a completely immersive experience.But thank you first, uh, contact, what, what is it about contact that you responded to?VIRI: Oh my goodness. I, well, I watched it growing up. I mean, with my dad, we're both sci-fi people. Like he got me into that. I mean, we're both, I mean he, you know, I was raised by him so clearly it stuck around contact for me. I think even to this day is still my favorite movie.And it, even though I'm kind of a style nut now, and it's, and it feels classic in its approach, but. There's something about all the layers at play in that film. Like there is this crazy big journey, but it's also engaging in a really smart conversation, right? Between science and faith and some of the greatest lines from that film.Are lines that you can say to yourself on the daily basis to remind yourself of like, where we are, what we're doing, why we're doing it, even down to the most basic, you know, funny, I thought the world was what we make it, you know, it's like all of these lines from contact that stick with me when he says, you know, um, did you love your father?Prove it. You know, it's like, what? What is proof? You know? So there were so many. Moments in that film. And for me, you know, climbing into that vessel and traveling through space and when she's floating and she sees the galaxy and she says they should have sent a poet, you know, and you're thinking about like the layers of this experience and how the aliens spoilers, um, you know, show up and talk to her in that conversation herself.Anyways, it's one of those. For me, kind of love letters to the human race and earth and what makes us tick and the complexity of identity all in this incredible journey that feels so. Big yet is boiled down to Jody Foster's very personal narrative, right? Like, it's like all, it just checks so many boxes and still feels like a spectacle.And so the balance, uh, you know, I, I do feel my instincts normally are to zoom in and feel incredibly personal. And I love kind of small stories that represent so much and that film in so many ways does that, and all the other things too. So I'm like, how did we get there? But I really, I can't, I don't know what it is.I can't shake that film. It's not, you know, there's a lot of films that have informed, you know, things I love and take me out to the fringe and take me to the mainstream and, you know, on my candy and, you know, all those things. And yet that, that film checks all the boxes for me.BEN: I remember seeing it in the theaters and you know everything you said.Plus you have a master filmmaker at the absolute top Oh god. Of his class. Oh my,VIRI: yes,BEN: yes. I mean, that mirror shot. Know, know, I mean, my jaw was on the ground because this is like, right, right. As CGI is started. Yes. So, I mean, I'm sure you've seen the behind the scenes of how theyVIRI: Yeah.BEN: Incredible.VIRI: Years.Years. We would be sitting around talking about how no one could figure out how he did it for years. Anybody I met who saw contact would be like, but how did they do the mirror shot? Like I nobody had kind of, yeah. Anyways, it was incredible. And you know, it's, and I,BEN: I saw, I saw it just with some civilians, right?Like the mirror shot. They're like, what are you talking about? The what? Huh?VIRI: Oh, it's so funny you bring that up because right now, you know, I went a friend, I have a friend who's a super fan of Wicked. We went for Wicked for Good, and there is a sequence in that film where they do the mirror jot over and over and over.It's like the, it's like the. Special device of that. It feels that way. That it's like the special scene with Glenda and her song. And someone next to me was sitting there and I heard him under his breath go,wow.Like he was really having a cinematic. And I wanted to lean over and be like, watch contact, like, like the first time.I saw it was there and now it's like people have, you know, unlocked it and are utilizing it. But it was, so, I mean, also, let's talk about the opening sequence of contact for a second. Phenomenal. Because I, I don't think I design, I've ever seen anything in cinema in my life like that. I if for anybody who's listening to this, even if you don't wanna watch the entire movie, which of course I'm obviously pitching you to do.Watch the opening. Like it, it's an incredible experience and it holds up and it's like when, yeah. Talk about attention to detail and the love of sound design and the visuals, but the patience. You wanna talk about trusting an audience, sitting in a theater and that silence Ah, yeah. Heaven film heaven.BEN: I mean, that's.That's one of the beautiful things that cinema does in, in the theater. Right. It just, you're in, you're immersed in this case, you know, pulling away from earth through outer space at however many, you know, hundreds of millions of miles an hour. You can't get that anywhere else. Yeah. That feeling,VIRI: that film is like all the greatest hits reel of.Storytelling gems. It's like the adventure, the love, the, you know, the, the complicated kind of smart dialogue that we can all understand what it's saying, but it's, but it's doing it through the experience of the story, you know, and then someone kind of knocks it outta the park without one quote where you gasp and it's really a phenomenal.Thing. Yeah. I, I've never, I haven't talked about contact as much in ages. Thank you for this.BEN: It's a great movie. It's there, and there were, there were two other moments in that movie, again when I saw it, where it's just like, this is a, a master storyteller. One is, yeah. When they're first like trying to decode the image.Mm-hmm. And you see a swastika.VIRI: Yeah. Oh yeah. And you're like,BEN: what the, what the f**k? That was like a total left turn. Right. But it's, it's, and I think it's, it's from the book, but it's like the movie is, it's, it's, you know, it's asking these questions and then you're like totally locked in, not expecting.You know, anything from World War II to be a part of this. And of course in the movie the, go ahead.VIRI: Yeah, no, I was gonna say, but the seed of thatBEN: is in the first shot,VIRI: scientifically educating. Oh yes. Well, the sensory experience, I mean, you're like, your heart stops and you get full Bo chills and then you're scared and you know, you're thinking a lot of things.And then when you realize the science of it, like the first thing that was broadcast, like that type of understanding the stakes of our history in a space narrative. And, you know, it, it just, there's so much. You know, unfurling in your mind. Yeah. In that moment that is both baked in from your lived experiences and what you know about the world, and also unlocking, so what's possible and what stakes have already been outside of this fiction, right?Mm-hmm. Outside of the book, outside of the telling of this, the reality of what has already happened in the facts of it. Yeah. It's really amazing.BEN: And the other moment we're just, and now, you know, being a filmmaker, you look back and I'm sure this is, it falls neatly and at the end of the second act. But when Tom scars, you know, getting ready to go up on the thing and then there's that terrorist incident or whatever, and the whole thing just collapses, the whole, um, sphere collapses and you just like, wait, what?Is that what's gonna happen now?VIRI: Yeah, like a hundred million dollars in it. It does too. It just like clink pun. Yeah. Everything.BEN: Yeah.VIRI: Think they'll never build it again. I mean, you just can't see what's coming after that and how it went down, who it happened to. I mean, that's the magic of that film, like in the best films.Are the ones where every scene, every character, it has so much going into it. Like if somebody paused the film there and said, wait, what's happening? And you had to explain it to them, it would take the entire movie to do it, you know, which you're like, that's, we're in it. Yeah. Anyway, so that's a great moment too, where I didn't, and I remember when they reveal spoilers again, uh, that there's another one, but when he is zooming in, you know, and you're like, oh, you know, it just, it's, yeah.Love it. It's wonderful. Now, I'm gonna watch that tonight too. IBEN: know, I, I haven't probably, I probably haven't watched that movie in 10 years, but now I gotta watch it again.VIRI: Yeah.BEN: Um, okay, so let's talk doc editing. Yes. What, um, I always like to, I heard a quote once that something about when, when critics get together, they talk meaning, and when artists get together, they talk paint.So let's talk paint for a second. What do you edit on?VIRI: I cut mainly on Avid and Premier. I, I do think of myself as more of an avid lady, but there's been a lot of probably the films that have done the most. I cut on Premier, and by that I mean like, it's interesting that I always assume Avid is my standard yet that most of the things that I love most, I cut on Premiere right now.I, I toggle between them both multiple projects on both, on both, um, programs and they're great. I love them equal for different reasons. I'm aBEN: big fan of Avid. I think it gets kind of a, a bad rap. Um, what, what are the benefits of AVID versus pr? I've never used Premier, but I was a big final cut seven person.So everybody has said that. Premier kind of emulates Final cut. Seven.VIRI: I never made a past seven. It's funny, I recently heard people are cutting on Final Cut Pro again, which A adds off. But I really, because I thought that ship had sailed when they went away from seven. So with, I will say like the top line things for me, you know, AVID forces you to control every single thing you're doing, which I actually think it can feel hindering and intimidating to some folks, but actually is highly liberating once you learn how to use it, which is great.It's also wonderful for. Networks. I mean, you can send a bin as a couple kilobyte. Like the idea that the shared workflow, when I've been on series or features with folks, it's unbeatable. Uh, you know, it can be cumbersome in like getting everything in there and stuff like that and all, and, but, but it kind of forces you to set up yourself for success, for online, for getting everything out.So, and there's a lot of good things. So then on conversely Premier. It's amazing ‘cause you can hit the ground running. You just drag everything in and you go. The challenge of course is like getting it out. Sometimes that's when you kind of hit the snaps. But I am impressed when I'm working with multiple frame rates, frame sizes, archival for many decades that I can just bring it into Premier and go and just start cutting.And you know, also it has a lot of intuitive nature with other Adobe Pro, you know, uh, applications and all of this, which is great. There's a lot of shortcuts. I mean, they're getting real. Slick with a lot of their new features, which I have barely met. I'm like an archival, I'm like a ancient picture editor lady from the past, like people always teach me things.They're just like, you know, you could just, and I'm like, what? But I, so I guess I, you know, I don't have all the tech guru inside talk on that, but I think that when I'm doing short form, it does feel like it's always premier long form. Always seems to avid. Team stuff feels avid, you know, feature, low budge features where they're just trying to like make ends meet.Feel Premier, and I think there's an enormous accessibility with Premier in that regard. But I still feel like Avid is a studios, I mean, a, a studio, well, who knows? I'm cut in the studios. But an industry standard in a lot of ways it still feels that way.BEN: Yeah, for sure. How did you get into editing?VIRI: I went to film school and while I was there, I really like, we did everything.You know, we learned how to shoot, we learned everything. Something about editing was really thrilling to me. I, I loved the puzzle of it, you know, I loved putting pieces together. We did these little funny exercises where we would take a movie and cut our own trailer and, you know, or they'd give us all the same footage and we cut our scene from it and.Itwas really incredible to see how different all those scenes were, and I loved finding ways to multipurpose footage, make an entire tone feel differently. You know, like if we're cutting a scene about a bank robbery, like how do you all of a sudden make it feel, you know, like romantic, you know, or whatever.It's like how do we kind of play with genre and tone and how much you can reinvent stuff, but it was really structure and shifting things anyways, it really, I was drawn to it and I had fun editing my things and helping other people edit it. I did always dream of directing, which I am doing now and I'm excited about, but I realized that my way in with editing was like learning how to do a story in that way, and it will always be my language.I think even as I direct or write or anything, I'm really imagining it as if I'm cutting it, and that could change every day, but like when I'm out shooting. I always feel like it's my superpower because when I'm filming it's like I know what I have and how I'll use it and I can change that every hour.But the idea of kind of knowing when you've got it or what it could be and having that reinvented is really incredible. So got into edit. So left film school. And then thought and loved editing, but wasn't like, I'm gonna be an editor. I was still very much on a very over, you know what? I guess I would say like, oh, I was gonna say Overhead, broad bird's eye.I was like, no, I'm gonna go make movies and then I'll direct ‘em and onward, but work, you know, worked in post houses, overnights, all that stuff and PA and try made my own crappy movies and you know, did a lot of that stuff and. It kept coming back to edit. I mean, I kept coming back to like assistant jobs and cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting, and it just felt like something that I had a skill for, but I didn't know what my voice was in that.Like I didn't, it took me a long time to realize I could have a voice as an editor, which was so dumb, and I think I wasted so much time thinking that like I was only search, you know, like that. I didn't have that to bring. That editing was just about. Taking someone else's vision. You know, I'm not a set of hands like I'm an artist as well.I think we all are as editors and I was very grateful that not, not too long into, you know, when I found the doc path and I went, okay, I think this is where I, I can rock this and I'm pretty excited about it. I ended up working with a small collection of directors who all. Respected that collaboration.Like they were excited for what I do and what I bring to it and felt, it made me feel like we were peers working together, which was my fantasy with how film works. And I feel like isn't always the constant, but I've been spoiled and now it's what I expect and what I want to create for others. And you know, I hope there's more of us out there.So it's interesting because my path to editing. Was like such a, a practical one and an emotional one, and an ego one, and a, you know, it's like, it's like all these things that have led me to where I am and the perfect neighbor is such a culmination of all of that. For sure.BEN: Yeah. And, and I want to get into it, uh, first the eternal question.Yeah. Film school worth it or not worth it?VIRI: I mean, listen, I. We'll share this. I think I've shared this before, but relevant to the fact I'll share it because I think we can all learn from each other's stories. I did not want to go to college. Okay? I wanted to go straight to la. I was like, I'm going to Hollywood.I wanted to make movies ever since I was a kid. This is what I'm gonna do, period. I come from a family of teachers. All of my parents are teachers. My parents divorced. I have my stepparent is teacher, like everybody's a teacher. And they were like, no. And not just a teacher. My mom and my dad are college professors, so they were like college, college, college.I sabotaged my SATs. I did not take them. I did not want to go to college. I was like, I am going to Los Angeles. Anyways, uh, my parents applied for me. To an accredited arts college that, and they were like, it's a three year try semester. You'll shoot on film, you can do your, you know, and they submitted my work from high school when I was in TV production or whatever.Anyways, they got me into this little college, and when I look back, I know that that experience was really incredible. I mean, while I was there, I was counting the days to leave, but I know that it gave me not only the foundation of. You know, learning, like, I mean, we were learning film at the time. I don't know what it's like now, but like we, you know, I learned all the different mediums, which was great on a vocational level, you know, but on top of that, they're just throwing cans of film at us and we're making all the mistakes we need to make to get where we need to get.And the other thing that's happening is there's also like the liberal arts, this is really, sounds like a teacher's kid, what I'm about to say. But like, there's also just the level of education To be smarter and learn more about the world, to inform your work doesn't mean that you can't. You can't skip college and just go out there and find your, and learn what you wanna learn in the stories that you journey out to tell.So I feel really torn on this answer because half of me is like. No, you don't need college. Like just go out and make stuff and learn what you wanna learn. And then the other half of me have to acknowledge that, like, I think there was a foundation built in that experience, in that transitional time of like semi-structure, semi independence, you know, like all the things that come with college.It's worth it, but it's expensive as heck. And I certainly, by the time I graduated, film wasn't even a thing and I had to learn digital out in the world. And. I think you can work on a film set and learn a hell of a lot more than you'll ever learn in a classroom. And at the same time, I really love learning.So, you know, my, I think I, my parents were right, they know it ‘cause I went back to grad school, so that was a shock for them. But I think, but yeah, so I, I get, what I would say is, it really is case, this is such a cop out of an answer, case by case basis. Ask yourself, you know, if you need that time and if you, if you aren't gonna go.You need to put in the work. You have to really like go out, go on those sets, work your tail off, seek out the books, read the stuff, you know, and no one's gonna hand you anything. And my stories are a hell of a lot, I think smarter and eloquent because of the education I had. Yeah.BEN: So you shuttle on, what was the school, by the way?VIRI: Well, it was called the, it was called the International Fine Arts College. It no longer exists because Art Institute bought it. It's now called the Miami International University of Art and Design, and they bought it the year I graduated. So I went to this tiny little arts college, uh, but graduated from this AI university, which my parents were like, okay.Um, but we were, it was a tiny little college owned by this man who would invite all of us over to his mansion for brunch every year. I mean, it was very strange, but cool. And it was mainly known for, I think fashion design and interior design. So the film kids, we all kind of had, it was an urban campus in Miami and we were all like kind of in a wado building on the side, and it was just kind of a really funky, misfit feeling thing that I thought was, now when I look back, I think was like super cool.I mean, they threw cans of film at us from the very first semester. There was no like, okay, be here for two years and earn your opportunity. We were making stuff right away and all of our teachers. All of our professors were people who were working in the field, like they were ones who were, you know, writing.They had written films and fun fact of the day, my, my cinematography professor was Sam Beam from Iron and Wine. If anybody knows Iron and Wine, like there's like, there's like we, we had crazy teachers that we now realize were people who were just probably trying to pay their bills while they were on their journey, and then they broke out and did their thing after we were done.BEN: Okay, so shooting on film. Yeah. What, um, was it 16 or 35? 16. And then how are you doing sound? No, notVIRI: 35, 16. Yeah. I mean, we had sound on Dax, you know, like we were recording all the mm-hmm. Oh, when we did the film. Yeah, yeah. Separate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did the Yeah. Syncs soundBEN: into a We did a,VIRI: yeah, we did, we did one.We shot on a Bolex, I think, if I remember it right. It did like a tiny, that probably was eight, you know? But the point is we did that on. The flatbed. After that, we would digitize and we would cut on media 100, which was like this. It was, I think it was called the, I'm pretty sure it was called Media 100.It was like this before avid, you know. A more archaic editing digital program that, so we did the one, the one cut and splice version of our, our tiny little films. And then we weren't on kind of beautiful steam backs or anything. It was like, you know, it was much, yeah, smaller. But we had, but you know, we raced in the changing tents and we did, you know, we did a lot of film, love and fun.And I will tell you for your own amusement that we were on set once with somebody making their short. The girl at the AC just grabbed, grabbed the film, what's, oh my God, I can't even believe I'm forgetting the name of it. But, um, whatever the top of the camera grabbed it and thought she had unlocked it, like unhinged it and just pulled it out after all the film just come spooling out on set.And we were like, everybody just froze and we were just standing there. It was like a bad sketch comedy, like we're all just standing there in silence with like, just like rolling out of the camera. I, I'll never forget it.BEN: Nightmare. Nightmare. I, you know, you said something earlier about when you're shooting your own stuff.Being an editor is a little bit of a superpower because you know, oh, I'm gonna need this, I'm gonna need that. And, and for me it's similar. It's especially similar. Like, oh, we didn't get this. I need to get an insert of this ‘cause I know I'm probably gonna want that. I also feel like, you know, I came up, um, to instill photography, 35 millimeter photography, and then when I got into filmmaking it was, um, digital, uh, mini DV tape.So, but I feel like the, um, the structure of having this, you know, you only have 36 shots in a still camera, so you've gotta be sure that that carried over even to my shooting on digital, of being meticulous about setting up the shot, knowing what I need. Whereas, you know, younger people who have just been shooting digital their whole lives that just shoot everything and we'll figure it out later.Yeah. Do do you, do you feel you had that Advant an advantage? Yes. Or sitting on film gave you some advantages?VIRI: I totally, yes. I also am a firm believer and lover of intention. Like I don't this whole, like we could just snap a shot and then punch in and we'll, whatever. Like it was my worst nightmare when people started talking about.We'll shoot scenes and something, it was like eight K, so we can navigate the frame. And I was like, wait, you're not gonna move the camera again. Like, it just, it was terrifying. So, and we passed that, but now the AI stuff is getting dicey, but the, I think that you. I, I am pretty romantic about the hands-on, I like books with paper, you know, like, I like the can, the cinematographer to capture, even if it's digital.And those benefits of the digital for me is like, yes, letting it roll, but it's not about cheating frames, you know, like it's about, it's about the accessibility of being able to capture things longer, or the technology to move smoother. These are good things. But it's not about, you know, simplifying the frame in something that we need to, that is still an art form.Like that's a craft. That's a craft. And you could argue that what we choose, you know, photographers, the choice they make in Photoshop is the new version of that is very different. Like my friends who are dps, you know, there's always like glasses the game, right? The lenses are the game. It's like, it's not about filters In posts, that was always our nightmare, right?The old fix it and post everybody's got their version of their comic strip that says Fix it and post with everything exploding. It's like, no, that's not what this is about. And so, I mean, I, I think I'll always be. Trying to, in my brain fight the good fight for the craftiness of it all because I'm so in love with everything.I miss film. I'm sad. I miss that time. I mean, I think I, it still exists and hopefully someday I'll have the opportunity that somebody will fund something that I'm a part of that is film. And at the same time there's somewhere in between that still feels like it's honoring that freshness. And, and then now there's like the, yeah, the new generation.It's, you know, my kids don't understand that I have like. Hand them a disposable camera. We'll get them sometimes for fun and they will also like click away. I mean, the good thing you have to wind it so they can't, they can't ruin it right away, but they'll kind of can't fathom that idea. And um, and I love that, where you're like, we only get 24 shots.Yeah, it's veryBEN: cool. So you said you felt the perfect neighbor, kind of, that was the culmination of all your different skills in the craft of editing. Can you talk a little bit about that?VIRI: Yes. I think that I spent, I think all the films, it's like every film that I've had the privilege of being a part of, I have taken something like, there's like some tool that was added to the tool belt.Maybe it had to do with like structure or style or a specific build to a quote or, or a device or a mechanism in the film, whatever it is. It was the why of why that felt right. That would kind of be the tool in the tool belt. It wouldn't just be like, oh, I learned how to use this new toy. It was like, no, no.There's some kind of storytelling, experience, technique, emotion that I felt that Now I'm like, okay, how do I add that in to everything I do? And I want every film to feel specific and serve what it's doing. But I think a lot of that sent me in a direction of really always approaching a project. Trying to meet it for like the, the work that only it can do.You know, it's like, it's not about comps. It's not about saying like, oh, we're making a film that's like, fill in the blank. I'm like, how do we plug and play the elements we have into that? It's like, no, what are the elements we have and how do we work with them? And that's something I fought for a lot on all the films I've been a part of.Um, and by that I mean fight for it. I just mean reminding everybody always in the room that we can trust the audience, you know, that we can. That, that we should follow the materials what, and work with what we have first, and then figure out what could be missing and not kind of IME immediately project what we think it needs to be, or it should be.It's like, no, let's discover what it is and then that way we will we'll appreciate. Not only what we're doing in the process, but ultimately we don't even realize what it can do for what it is if we've never seen it before, which is thrilling. And a lot of those have been a part of, there have been pockets of being able to do that.And then usually near the end there's a little bit of math thing that happens. You know, folks come in the room and they're trying to, you know, but what if, and then, but other people did. Okay, so all you get these notes and you kind of reel it in a little bit and you find a delicate balance with the perfect neighbor.When Gita came to me and we realized, you know, we made that in a vacuum like that was we, we made that film independently. Very little money, like tiny, tiny little family of the crew. It was just me and her, you know, like when we were kind of cutting it together and then, and then there's obviously producers to kind of help and build that platform and, and give great feedback along the way.But it allowed us to take huge creative risks in a really exciting way. And I hate that I even have to use the word risks because it sounds like, but, but I do, because I think that the industry is pushing against, you know, sometimes the spec specificity of things, uh, in fear of. Not knowing how it will be received.And I fantasize about all of us being able to just watch something and seeing how we feel about it and not kind of needing to know what it is before we see it. So, okay, here comes the perfect neighbor. GTA says to me early on, like, I think. I think it can be told through all these materials, and I was like, it will be told through like I was determined and I held us very strict to it.I mean, as we kind of developed the story and hit some challenges, it was like, this is the fun. Let's problem solve this. Let's figure out what it means. But that also came within the container of all this to kind of trust the audience stuff that I've been trying to repeat to myself as a mantra so I don't fall into the trappings that I'm watching so much work do.With this one, we knew it was gonna be this raw approach and by composing it completely of the evidence, it would ideally be this kind of undeniable way to tell the story, which I realized was only possible because of the wealth of material we had for this tracked so much time that, you know, took the journey.It did, but at the same time, honoring that that's all we needed to make it happen. So all those tools, I think it was like. A mixed bag of things that I found that were effective, things that I've been frustrated by in my process. Things that I felt radical about with, you know, that I've been like trying to scream in, into the void and nobody's listening.You know, it's like all of that because I, you know, I think I've said this many times. The perfect neighbor was not my full-time job. I was on another film that couldn't have been more different. So I think in a, in a real deep seated, subconscious way, it was in conversation with that. Me trying to go as far away from that as possible and in understanding what could be possible, um, with this film.So yeah, it's, it's interesting. It's like all the tools from the films, but it was also like where I was in my life, what had happened to me, you know, and all of those. And by that I mean in a process level, you know, working in film, uh, and that and yes, and the values and ethics that I honor and wanna stick to and protect in the.Personal lens and all of that. So I think, I think it, it, it was a culmination of many things, but in that approach that people feel that has resonated that I'm most proud of, you know, and what I brought to the film, I think that that is definitely, like, I don't think I could have cut this film the way I did at any other time before, you know, I think I needed all of those experiences to get here.BEN: Oh, there's so much there and, and there's something kind of the. The first part of what you were saying, I've had this experience, I'm curious if you've had this experience. I sort of try to prepare filmmakers to be open to this, that when you're working with something, especially Doc, I think Yeah. More so Doc, at a certain point the project is gonna start telling you what it wants to be if you, if you're open to it.Yes. Um, but it's such a. Sometimes I call it the spooky process. Like it's such a ephemeral thing to say, right? Like, ‘cause you know, the other half of editing is just very technical. Um, but this is like, there's, there's this thing that's gonna happen where it's gonna start talking to you. Do you have that experience?VIRI: Yes. Oh, yes. I've also been a part of films that, you know, they set it out to make it about one person. And once we watched all the footage, it is about somebody else. I mean, there's, you know, those things where you kind of have to meet the spooky part, you know, in, in kind of honoring that concept that you're bringing up is really that when a film is done, I can't remember cutting it.Like, I don't, I mean, I remember it and I remember if you ask me why I did something, I'll tell you. I mean, I'm very, I am super. Precious to a fault about an obsessive. So like you could pause any film I've been a part of and I'll tell you exactly why I used that shot and what, you know, I can do that. But the instinct to like just grab and go when I'm just cutting and I'm flowing.Yeah, that's from something else. I don't know what that is. I mean, I don't. People tell me that I'm very fast, which is, I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing, but I think it really comes from knowing that the job is to make choices and you can always go back and try different things, but this choose your own adventure novel is like just going, and I kind of always laugh about when I look back and I'm like, whoa, have that happen.Like, you know, like I don't even. And I have my own versions of imposter syndrome where I refill mens and I'm like, oh, got away with that one. Um, or every time a new project begins, I'm like, do I have any magic left in the tank? Um, but, but trusting the process, you know, to what you're socking about is a really important way to free yourself and the film to.Discover what it is. I think nowadays because of the algorithm and the, you know, I mean, it's changing right now, so we'll see where, how it recalibrates. But for a, for a while, over these past years, the expectations have, it's like shifted where they come before the film is like, it's like you create your decks and your sizzles and you write out your movie and you, and there is no time for discovery.And when it happens. It's like undeniable that you needed to break it because it's like you keep hitting the same impasse and you can't solve it and then you're like, oh, that's because we have to step outta the map. But I fear that many works have suffered, you know, that they have like followed the map and missed an opportunity.And so, you know, and for me as an editor, it's always kinda a red flag when someone's like, and here's the written edit. I'm like, what? Now let's watch the footage. I wanna know where There's always intention when you set up, but as people always say, the edit is kind of the last. The last step of the storytelling process.‘cause so much can change there. So there is, you know, there it will reveal itself. I do get nerdy about that. I think a film knows what it is. I remember when I was shooting my first film called Born to Play, that film, we were. At the championship, you know, the team was not, thought that they were gonna win the whole thing.We're at the championship and someone leaned over to me and they said, you know, it's funny when a story knows it's being filmed. And I was like, ah. I think about that all the time because now I think about that in the edit bay. I'm like, okay, you tell me, you know, what do you wanna do? And then you kind of like, you match frame back to something and all of a sudden you've opened a portal and you're in like a whole new theme.It's very cool. You put, you know, you put down a different. A different music temp, music track, and all of a sudden you're making a new movie. I mean, it's incredible. It's like, it really is real world magic. It's so much fun. Yeah,BEN: it is. It's a blast. The, so, uh, I saw you at the panel at Doc NYC and then I went that night or the next night and watched Perfect Neighbor blew me away, and you said something on the panel that then blew me away again when I thought about it, which is.I think, correct me if I'm wrong, all of the audio is syncedVIRI: Yeah. To the footage.BEN: That, to me is the big, huge, courageous decision you made.VIRI: I feel like I haven't said that enough. I don't know if folks understand, and it's mainly for the edit of that night, like the, I mean, it's all, it's, it's all that, but it was important.That the, that the sound would be synced to the shock that you're seeing. So when you're hearing a cop, you know, a police officer say, medics, we need medics. If we're in a dashboard cam, that's when it was, you know, echoing from the dashboard. Like that's what, so anything you're hearing is synced. When you hear something coming off from the per when they're walking by and you hear someone yelling something, you know, it's like all of that.I mean, that was me getting really strict about the idea that we were presenting this footage for what it was, you know, that it was the evidence that you are watching, as you know, for lack of a better term, unbiased, objectively as possible. You know, we're presenting this for what it is. I, of course, I have to cut down these calls.I am making choices like that. That is happening. We are, we are. Composing a narrative, you know, there, uh, that stuff is happening. But to create, but to know that what you're hearing, I'm not applying a different value to the frame on, on a very practical syn sound way. You know, it's like I'm not gonna reappropriate frames.Of course, in the grand scheme of the narrative flow with the emotions, you know, the genre play of this horror type film, and there's a lot happening, but anything you were hearing, you know, came from that frame. Yeah.BEN: That's amazing. How did you organize the footage and the files initially?VIRI: Well, Gita always likes to laugh ‘cause she is, she calls herself my first ae, which is true.I had no a, you know, I had, she was, she had gotten all that material, you know, she didn't get that material to make a film. They had originally, this is a family friend who died and when this all happened, they went down and gathered this material to make a case, to make sure that Susan didn't get out. To make sure this was not forgotten.You know, to be able to utilize. Protect the family. And so there was, at first it was kind of just gathering that. And then once she got it, she realized that it spanned two years, you know, I mean, she, she popped, she was an editor for many, many years, an incredible editor. She popped it into a system, strung it all out, sunk up a lot of it to see what was there, and realized like, there's something here.And that's when she called me. So she had organized it, you know, by date, you know, and that, that originally. Strung out a lot of it. And then, so when I came in, it was just kind of like this giant collection of stuff, like folders with the nine one calls. How long was the strung out? Well, I didn't know this.Well, I mean, we have about 30 hours of content. It wasn't one string out, you know, it was like there were the call, all the calls, and then the 9 1 1 calls, the dash cams. The ring cams. Okay. Excuse me. The canvassing interviews, audio only content. So many, many. Was about 30 hours of content, which honestly, as most of us editors know, is not actually a lot I've cut.You know, it's usually, we have tons more than that. I mean, I, I've cut decades worth of material and thousands of hours, you know, but 30 hours of this type of material is very specific, you know, that's a, that's its own challenge. So, so yeah. So the first, so it was organized. It was just organized by call.Interview, you know, some naming conventions in there. Some things we had to sync up. You know, the 9 1 1 calls would overlap. You could hear it in the nine one one call center. You would hear someone, one person who called in, and then you'd hear in the background, like the conversation of another call. It's in the film.There's one moment where you can hear they're going as fast as they can, like from over, from a different. So there was so much overlap. So there was some syncing that we kind of had to do by ear, by signals, by, you know, and there's some time coding on the, on the cameras, but that would go off, which was strange.They weren't always perfect. So, but that, that challenge unto itself would help us kind of really screen the footage to a finite detail, right. To like, have, to really understand where everybody is and what they're doing when,BEN: yeah. You talked about kind of at the end, you know, different people come in, there's, you know, maybe you need to reach a certain length or so on and so forth.How do you, um, handle notes? What's your advice to young filmmakers as far as navigating that process? Great question.VIRI: I am someone who, when I was a kid, I had trouble with authority. I wasn't like a total rebel. I think I was like a really goody goody too. She was borderline. I mean, I had my moments, but growing up in, in a journey, an artistic journey that requires you to kind of fall in love with getting critiques and honing things and working in teams.And I had some growing pains for a long time with notes. I mean, my impulse was always, no. A note would come and I'd go, no, excuse me. Go to bed, wake up. And then I would find my way in and that would be great. That bed marinating time has now gone away, thank goodness. And I have realized that. Not all notes, but some notes have really changed the trajectory of a project in the most powerful waves.And it doesn't always the, to me, what I always like to tell folks is it's, the notes aren't really the issues. It's what? It's the solutions people offer. You know? It's like you can bring up what you're having an issue with. It's when people kind of are like, you know what I would do? Or you know what you think you should do, or you could do this.You're like, you don't have to listen to that stuff. I mean, you can. You can if you have the power to filter it. Some of us do, some of us don't. I've worked with people who. Take all the notes. Notes and I have to, we have to, I kind of have to help filter and then I've worked with people who can very quickly go need that, don't need that need, that, don't need that.Hear that, don't know how to deal with that yet. You know, like if, like, we can kind of go through it. So one piece of advice I would say is number one, you don't have to take all the notes and that's, that's, that's an honoring my little veary. Wants to stand by the vision, you know, and and fight for instincts.Okay. But the second thing is the old classic. It's the note behind the note. It's really trying to understand where that note's coming from. Who gave it what they're looking for? You know, like is that, is it a preference note or is it a fact? You know, like is it something that's really structurally a problem?Is it something that's really about that moment in the film? Or is it because of all the events that led to that moment that it's not doing the work you think it should? You know, the, the value is a complete piece. So what I really love about notes now is I get excited for the feedback and then I get really excited about trying to decipher.What they mean, not just taking them as like my to-do list. That's not, you know, that's not the best way to approach it. It's really to get excited about getting to actually hear feedback from an audience member. Now, don't get me wrong, an audience member is usually. A producer in the beginning, and they have, they may have their own agenda, and that's something to know too.And maybe their agenda can influence the film in an important direction for the work that they and we all wanted to do. Or it can help at least discern where their notes are coming from. And then we can find our own emotional or higher level way to get into solving that note. But, you know, there's still, I still get notes that make me mad.I still get notes where I get sad that I don't think anybody was really. Watching it or understanding it, you know, there's always a thought, you know, that happens too. And to be able to read those notes and still find that like one kernel in there, or be able to read them and say, no kernels. But, but, but by doing that, you're now creating the conviction of what you're doing, right?Like what to do and what not to do. Carrie, equal value, you know, so you can read all these notes and go, oh, okay, so I am doing this niche thing, but I believe in it and. And I'm gonna stand by it. Or like, this one person got it and these five didn't. And I know that the rules should be like majority rules, but that one person, I wanna figure out why they got it so that I can try to get these, you know, you get what I'm saying?So I, I've grown, it took a long time for me to get where I am and I still have moments where I'm bracing, you know, where I like to scroll to see how many notes there are before I even read them. You know, like dumb things that I feel like such a kid about. But we're human. You know, we're so vulnerable.Doing this work is you're so naked and you're trying and you get so excited. And I fall in love with everything. I edit so furiously and at every stage of the process, like my first cut, I'm like, this is the movie. Like I love this so much. And then, you know, by the 10th root polling experience. I'm like, this is the movie.I love it so much. You know, so it's, it's painful, but at the same time it's like highly liberating and I've gotten a lot more flowy with it, which was needed. I would, I would encourage everybody to learn how to really enjoy being malleable with it, because that's when you find the sweet spot. It's actually not like knowing everything right away, exactly what it's supposed to be.It's like being able to know what the heart of it is. And then get really excited about how collaborative what we do is. And, and then you do things you would've never imagined. You would've never imagined, um, or you couldn't have done alone, you know, which is really cool. ‘cause then you get to learn a lot more about yourself.BEN: Yeah. And I think what you said of sort of being able to separate the idea of, okay, something maybe isn't clicking there, versus whatever solution this person's offering. Nine times outta 10 is not gonna be helpful, but, but the first part is very helpful that maybe I'm missing something or maybe what I want to connect is not connecting.VIRI: And don't take it personally. Yeah. Don't ever take it personally. I, I think that's something that like, we're all here to try to make the best movie we can.BEN: Exactly.VIRI: You know? Yeah. And I'm not gonna pretend there aren't a couple sticklers out there, like there's a couple little wrenches in the engine, but, but we will, we all know who they are when we're on the project, and we will bind together to protect from that.But at the same time, yeah, it's, yeah. You get it, you get it. Yeah. But it's really, it's an important part of our process and I, it took me a while to learn that.BEN: Last question. So you talked about kind of getting to this cut and this cut and this cut. One of the most important parts of editing, I think is especially when, when you've been working on a project for a long time, is being able to try and see it with fresh eyes.And of course the, one of the ways to do that is to just leave it alone for three weeks or a month or however long and then come back to it. But sometimes we don't have that luxury. I remember Walter Merch reading in his book that sometimes he would run the film upside down just to, mm-hmm. You know, re re redo it the way his brain is watching it.Do you have any tips and tricks for seeing a cut with fresh eyes? OhVIRI: yeah. I mean, I mean, other than stepping away from it, of course we all, you know, with this film in particular, I was able to do that because I was doing other films too. But I, one good one I always love is take all the music out. Just watch the film without music.It's really a fascinating thing. I also really like quiet films, so like I tend to all of a sudden realize like, what is absolutely necessary with the music, but, but it, it really, people get reliant on it, um, to do the work. And you'd be pleasantly surprised that it can inform and reinvent a scene to kind of watch it without, and you can, it's not about taking it out forever, it's just the exercise of watching what the film is actually doing in its raw form, which is great.Switching that out. I mean, I can, you know, there's other, washing it upside down, I feel like. Yeah, I mean like there's a lot of tricks we can trick our trick, our brain. You can do, you could also, I. I think, I mean, I've had times where I've watched things out of order, I guess. Like where I kind of like go and I watch the end and then I click to the middle and then I go back to the top, you know?And I'm seeing, like, I'm trying to see if they're all connecting, like, because I'm really obsessed with how things begin and how they end. I think the middle is highly important, but it really, s**t tells you, what are we doing here? Like what are we set up and where are we ending? And then like, what is the most effective.Journey to get there. And so there is a way of also kind of trying to pinpoint the pillars of the film and just watching those moments and not kind, and then kind of reverse engineering the whole piece back out. Yeah, those are a couple of tricks, but more than anything, it's sometimes just to go watch something else.If you can't step away from the project for a couple of weeks, maybe watch something, you could, I mean, you can watch something comparable in a way. That tonally or thematically feels in conversation with it to just kind of then come back and feel like there's a conversation happening between your piece and that piece.The other thing you could do is watch something so. Far different, right? Like, even if you like, don't like, I don't know what I'm suggesting, you'd have to, it would bend on the project, but there's another world where like you're like, all right, I'm gonna go off and watch some kind of crazy thrill ride and then come back to my slow burn portrait, you know, and, and just, just to fresh the pal a little bit, you know?I was like that. It's like fueling the tanks. We should be watching a lot of stuff anyways, but. That can happen too, so you don't, you also get to click off for a second because I think we can get, sometimes it's really good to stay in it at all times, but sometimes you can lose the force for the, you can't see it anymore.You're in the weeds. You're too close to it. So how do we kind of shake it loose? Feedback sessions, by the way, are a part, is a part of that because I think that when you sit in the back of the room and you watch other people watch the film, you're forced to watch it as another person. It's like the whole thing.So, and I, I tend to watch people's body language more than, I'm not watching the film. I'm like watching for when people shift. Yeah, yeah. I'm watching when people are like coughing or, you know, or when they, yeah. Whatever. You get it. Yeah. Yeah. That, that, soBEN: that is the most helpful part for me is at a certain point I'll bring in a couple friends and I'll just say, just want you to watch this, and I'm gonna ask you a couple questions afterwards.But 95% of what I need is just sitting there. Watching them and you said exactly. Watching their body language.VIRI: Yeah. Oh man. I mean, this was shoulder, shoulder shooks. There's, and you can tell the difference, you can tell the difference between someone's in an uncomfortable chair and someone's like, it's like whenever you can sense it if you're ever in a theater and you can start to sense, like when they, when they reset the day, like whenever we can all, we all kind of as a community are like, oh, this is my moment.To like get comfortable and go get a bite of popcorn. It's like there's tells, so some of those are intentional and then some are not. Right? I mean, if this is, it goes deeper than the, will they laugh at this or will they be scared at this moment? It really is about captivating them and feeling like when you've, when you've lost it,BEN: for sure.Yeah. Very. This has been fantastic. Oh my God, how fun.VIRI: I talked about things here with you that I've haven't talked, I mean, contact so deeply, but even film school, I feel like I don't know if that's out there anywhere. So that was fun. Thank you.BEN: Love it. Love it. That, that that's, you know, that's what I hope for these interviews that we get to things that, that haven't been talked about in other places.And I always love to just go in, you know, wherever the trail leads in this case. Yeah. With, uh, with Jody Foster and Math McConaughey and, uh, I mean, go see it. Everybody met this. Yeah. Uh, and for people who are interested in your work, where can they find you?VIRI: I mean, I don't update my website enough. I just go to IMDB.Look me up on IMDB. All my work is there. I think, you know, in a list, I've worked on a lot of films that are on HBO and I've worked on a lot of films and now, you know, obviously the perfect neighbor's on Netflix right now, it's having an incredible moment where I think the world is engaging with it. In powerful ways beyond our dreams.So if you watch it now, I bet everybody can kind of have really fascinating conversations, but my work is all out, you know, the sports stuff born to play. I think it's on peacock right now. I mean, I feel like, yeah, I love the scope that I've had the privilege of working on, and I hope it keeps growing. Who knows.Maybe I'll make my space movie someday. We'll see. But in the meantime, yeah, head over and see this, the list of credits and anything that anybody watches, I love to engage about. So they're all, I feel that they're all doing veryBEN: different work. I love it. Thank you so much.VIRI: Thank you. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit benbo.substack.com

In March 2022, Dr. Joseph Fraiman taped an internal call between FDA directors and physicians who were concerned about mRNA side effects in their patients – including the cardiac arrest and sudden death of a 7-year-old days after being injected with Pfizer's mRNA vaccine. “This was a top level meeting of directors,” Dr. Fraiman revealed to Ask Dr. Drew in Sept 2023. “This entire meeting terrified my entire work group.” The call – legally recorded by Dr. Fraiman – included FDA Director Dr. Peter Marks, Dr. Peter Doshi, Dr. Celia Witten, Dr. Sarah Walinsky, Dr. Lorrie McNeill, and many other experts. “What they're saying here is they're not doing statistical testing on adverse events. This is really insane to me,” Dr. Fraiman continued. “You know there's a problem if the vaccine group has a higher rate of them.” Dr. Joseph Fraiman, MD is an emergency physician and clinical researcher focused on harm-benefit analysis. He served as Medical Manager of Louisiana's Urban Search Rescue Disaster Task Force 1 and is lead author of a widely known re-analysis of mRNA vaccine serious harms. Follow at https://x.com/josephfraiman Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson is Co-CEO and Co-Founder of Seraphina Therapeutics. She is a veterinary epidemiologist and author of “The Longevity Nutrient” (March 2025). Her background includes DARPA, the U.S. Navy Marine Mammal Program, and research on nutritional C15:0 deficiencies. Learn more at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 • AUGUSTA PRECIOUS METALS – Thousands of Americans are moving portions of their retirement into physical gold & silver. Learn more in this 3-minute report from our friends at Augusta Precious Metals: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/gold⁠⁠⁠⁠ or text DREW to 35052 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠• FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • VSHREDMD – Formulated by Dr. Drew: The Science of Cellular Health + World-Class Training Programs, Premium Content, and 1-1 Training with Certified V Shred Coaches! More at https://drdrew.com/vshredmd • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and Susan Pinsky (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/firstladyoflov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠e⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Executive Producers • Kaleb Nation - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Susan Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/firstladyoflove⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Content Producer & Booking • Emily Barsh - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/emilytvproducer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Hosted By • Dr. Drew Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/drdrew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jacob Sager Weinstein, comedy writer for Dennis Miller and author of How to Remember Everything, shares how growing up in privileged Washington DC where the vice president's daughter was in his debate club gave him confidence to walk into any room but delayed his understanding that not everyone has equal access to opportunity until he reached Princeton. Weinstein reveals how writing for Dennis Miller taught him to find the Venn diagram between his voice and another's—a skill that translated perfectly to children's books where kids have the same BS detector for mechanical writing. He makes the case for memory in an information-saturated world: you cannot synthesize facts Google knows, only facts you know, which is why students must memorize foundational knowledge before creating something new. Weinstein introduces the memory palace method for turning hard-to-remember abstract information into easy-to-remember visual locations and explains the curve of forgetting where 75 percent of information vanishes within 24 hours unless you use spaced repetition to stretch retention from days to weeks to permanent memory. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How to Build a Winning Strategy for Your B2B Brand In a fast-paced business environment, marketers, agencies, and consultants must proactively help clients differentiate their brands in the marketplace. One way of doing this is by analyzing the strategy, messaging, and brand positioning, both for their own brands and key competitors. So how can teams conduct this kind of brand research and competitive analysis in a way that's insightful, efficient, and actionable for planning the next steps? Tune in as the B2B Marketers on Mission Podcast presents the Marketing DEMO Lab Series, where we sit down with Clay Ostrom (Founder, Map & Fire) and his SmokeLadder platform designed for brand research, messaging and positioning analysis, and competitive benchmarking. In this episode, Clay explained the platform's origins and features, emphasizing its role in analyzing brand positioning, core messaging, and competitive landscapes. He also stressed the importance of clear, consistent brand positioning and messaging, and how standardized make it easier to compare brands across multiple business values. Clay also highlighted the value of objective, data-driven analysis to identify brand strengths, weaknesses, and gaps, and how tools like SmokeLadder can save significant time in gathering insights to build trust with clients. He provided practical steps for generating, refining, and exporting brand messaging and analysis for internal or client-facing use. Finally, Clay also discussed how action items and recommendations generated from analysis can immediately support smart brand strategy decisions and expedite trust-building with clients. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4_o1PzF1Kk Topics discussed in episode: [1:31] The purpose behind building SmokeLadder and why it matters for B2B teams [12:00] A walkthrough of the SmokeLadder platform and how it works [14:51] SmokeLadder's core features [17:48] How positioning scores and category rankings are calculated [35:36] How differentiation and competitors are analyzed inside SmokeLadder [44:07] How SmokeLadder builds messaging and generates targeted personas [50:24] The key benefits and unique capabilities that set SmokeLadder apart Companies and links: Clay Ostrom Map & Fire SmokeLadder Transcript Christian Klepp  00:00 In an increasingly competitive B2B landscape, marketers, agencies and consultants, need to proactively find ways to help their clients stand out amidst the digital noise. One way of doing this is by analyzing the strategy, messaging and positioning of their own brands and those of their competitors. So how can they do this in a way that’s insightful, efficient and effective? Welcome to this first episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast Demo Lab Series, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Clay Ostrom about this topic. He’s the owner and founder of the branding agency Map and Fire, and the creator of the platform Smoke Ladder that we’ll be talking about today. So let’s dive in. Christian Klepp  00:42 All right, and I’m gonna say Clay Ostrom. Welcome to this first episode of the Demo Lab Series. Clay Ostrom  00:50 I am super excited and very honored to be the first guest on this new series. It’s awesome. Christian Klepp  00:56 We are honored to have you here. And you know, let’s sit tight, or batten down the hatches and buckle up, and whatever other analogy you want to throw in there, because we are going to unpack a lot of interesting features and discuss interesting topics around the platform that you’ve built. And I think a good place to start, perhaps Clay before we start doing a walk through of the platform is, but let’s start at the very beginning. What motivated you to create this platform called Smoke Ladder. Clay Ostrom  01:31 So we should go all the way back to my childhood. I always dreamed of, you know, working on brand and positioning. You know, that was something I’ve always thought of since the early days, but no, but I do. I own an agency called Map and Fire, so I’ve been doing this kind of work for over 10 years now, and have worked with lots and lots of different kinds of clients, and over that time, developed different frameworks and a point of view about how to do this kind of work, and when the AI revolution kind of hit us all, it just really struck me that this was an opportunity to take a lot of that thinking and a lot of that, you know, again, my perspective on how to do this work and productize that and turn it into something that could be used by people when we’re not engaged with them, in some kind of service offering. So, so that was kind of the kernel of it. I actually have a background in computer science and product. So it was sort of this natural Venn diagram intersection of I can do some product stuff, I can do brand strategy stuff. So let’s put it together and build something. Christian Klepp  02:46 And the rest, as they say, is history. Clay Ostrom  02:49 The rest, as they say, is a lot of nights and weekends and endless hours slaving away at trying to build something useful. Christian Klepp  02:58 Sure, sure, that certainly is part of it, too. Clay Ostrom  03:01 Yeah. Christian Klepp  03:02 Let’s not keep the audience in suspense for too long here, right? Like, let’s start with the walk through. And before you share your screen, maybe I’ll set this up a little bit, right? Because you, as you said, like, you know, you’ve built this platform. It’s called Smoke Ladder, which I thought was a really clever name. It’s, you like to describe it as, like, your favorite SEO (Search Engine Optimization) tool, but for brand research and analysis. So I would say, like, walk us through how somebody would use this platform, like, whether they be a marketer that’s already been like in the industry for years, or is starting out, or somebody working at a brand or marketing agency, and how does the platform address these challenges or questions that people have regarding brand strategy, analysis and research? Clay Ostrom  03:49 Yeah, yeah. I use that analogy of the SEO thing, just because, especially early on, I was trying to figure out the best way to describe it to someone who hasn’t seen it before. I feel like it’s a, I’m not going to fall into the trap of saying, this is the only product like this, but it has its own unique twists with what it can do. And I felt like SEO tools are something everybody has touched at one point or another. So I was using this analogy of, it’s like the s, you know, Semrush of positioning and messaging or Ahrefs, depending on your if you’re a Coke or Pepsi person. But I always felt like that was just a quick way to give a little idea of the fact that it’s both about analyzing your own brand, but it’s also about competitive analysis and being able to see what’s going on in the market or in your landscape, and looking specifically at what your competitors are doing and what their strengths and weaknesses are. So does that resonate with you in terms of, like, a shorthand way, I will say, I don’t. I don’t say that. It’s super explicitly on the website, but it’s been in conversation. Christian Klepp  05:02 No, absolutely, absolutely, that resonated with me. The only part that didn’t resonate with me is that I’m neither a coke or a Pepsi person. I’m more of a ginger ale type of guy. I digress. But yeah, let’s what don’t you share your screen, and let’s walk through this, right? Like, okay, if a marketing person were like, use the platform to do some research on, perhaps that marketers, like own company and the competitors as well, right? Like, what would they do? Clay Ostrom  05:32 Yeah, so that’s, that is, like you were saying, there’s, sort of, I guess, a few different personas of people who would potentially use this. And initially I was thinking a little more about both in house, people who, you know, someone who’s working on a specific brand, digging really deep on their own brand, whether they’re, you know, the marketing lead or whatever, maybe they’re the founder, and then this other role of agency owners, or people who work at an agency where they are constantly having to look at new brands, new categories, and quickly get up to speed on what those brands are doing and what’s the competitive space look like, you know, for that brand. And that’s something that, if you work at an agency, which obviously we both have our own agencies, we do this stuff weekly. I mean, every time a new lead comes in, we have to quickly get up to speed and understand something about what they do. And one of the big gaps that I found, and I’d be curious to kind of hear your thoughts on this, but I’ve had a lot of conversations with other agency owners, and I think one of the biggest gaps is often that brands are just not always that great at explaining their own brand or positioning or differentiation to you, and sometimes they have some documentation around it, but a lot of times they don’t. A lot of it’s word of mouth, and that makes it really hard to do work for them. If whatever you’re doing for them, whether that’s maybe you are working on SEO or maybe you’re working on paid ads or social or content, you have to know what the brand is doing and kind of what they’re again, what their strengths and weaknesses are, so that you can talk about that. I mean, do you come across that a lot in your work? Christian Klepp  07:33 How do I say this without offending anybody? I find, I mean jokes aside, I find, more often than not, in the especially in the B2B space, which is an area that I operate in, I find 888 point five times out of 10. We are dealing with companies that have a they, have a very rude, rudimentary, like, framework of something that remotely resembles some form of branding. And I know that was a very long winded answer, but it’s kind of sort of there, but not really, if you know what I mean. Clay Ostrom  08:17 Yeah. Christian Klepp  08:17 And there have been other extreme cases where they’ve got the logo and the website, and that’s as far as their branding goals. And I would say that had they had all these, this discipline, like branding system and structure in place, then people like maybe people like you and I will be out on a job, right and it’s something, and I’m sure you’ve come across this, and we’ll probably dig into this later, but like you, it’s something I’ve come across several times, especially in the B2B space, where branding is not taken seriously until it becomes serious. I know that sounds super ironic, right, but, and it’s to the point of this platform, right, which we’re going to dig into in a second, but it’s, it’s things, for instance, positioning right, like, are you? Are you, in fact, strategically positioned against competitors? Is your messaging resonating with, I would imagine, especially in the B2B context, with the multiple group target groups that you have, or that your company is, is going after? Right? Is that resonating, or is this all like something that I call the internal high five? You’ve this has all been developed to please internal stakeholders and and then you take it to market, and it just does not, it just does not resonate with the target audience at all. Right? So there’s such a complex plethora of challenges here, right? That people like yourself and like you and I are constantly dealing with, and I think that’s also part of the reason why I would say a platform like this is important, because it helps to not just aggregate data. I mean, certainly it does that too, but it helps. To put things properly, like into perspective at speed. I think that might be, that might be something that you would have talked about later, but it does this at speed, because I think, from my own experience, one of the factors in our world that sometimes works against us is time, right? Clay Ostrom  10:19 No, I totally agree, yeah, and, you know, we’re lucky, I guess would be the word that we are often hired to work on a company strategy with them and help them clarify these things. Christian Klepp  10:33 Absolutely. Clay Ostrom  10:34 There are a million other flavors of agencies out there who are being hired to execute on work for a brand, and not necessarily being brought in to redefine, you know what the brand, you know they’re positioning and their messaging and some of these fundamental things, so they’re kind of stuck with whatever they get. And like you said, a lot of times it’s not much. It might be a logo and a roughly put together website, and maybe not a whole lot else. So, yeah, but I think your other point about speed is that was a huge part of this. I think the market is only accelerating right now, because it’s becoming so much easier to start up new companies and new brands and new products. And now we’ve got vibe coding, so you can technically build a product in a day, maybe launch it the next day, start marketing it, you know, by the weekend. And all of this is creating noise and competition, and it’s all stuff that we have to deal with as marketers. We have to understand the landscape. We’ve got to quickly be able to analyze all these different brands, see where the strengths and weaknesses are and all that stuff. So… Christian Klepp  11:46 Absolutely. Clay Ostrom  11:46 But, yeah, that, I think that the speed piece is a huge part of this for sure. Christian Klepp  11:51 Yeah. So, so we’re okay, so we’re on the I guess this, this will probably be the homepage. So just walk us through what, what a marketing person would do if they want to use this platform, yeah? Clay Ostrom  12:00 So the very first thing you do when you come in, and this was when I initially conceived of this product, one of the things that I really wanted was the ability to have very quick feedback, be able to get analysis for whatever brand you’re looking at, you know, right away to be able to get some kind of, you know, insight or analysis done. So the first thing you can do, and you can do this literally, from the homepage of the website, you can enter in a URL for a brand, come into the product, even before you’ve created an account, you can come in and you can do an initial analysis, so you can put in whatever URL you’re looking at, could be yours, could be a competitor, and run that initial analysis. What we’re looking at here, this is, if you do create an account, this is, this becomes your, as we say, like Home Base, where you can save brands that you’re looking at. You can see your history, all that good stuff. And it just gives you some quick bookmarks so that you can kind of flip back and forth between, maybe it’s your brand, maybe it’s some of the competitors you’re looking at and then it gives you just some quick, kind of high level directional info. And I kind of break it up into these different buckets. Clay Ostrom  13:23 And again, I’d love to kind of hear if this is sort of how you think about it, too. But there’s sort of these different phases when you’re working on a brand. And again, this is sort of from an agency perspective, but you first got the sort of the research and the pitch piece. So this is before maybe you’re even working with them. You’re trying to get an understanding of what they do. Then we have discovery and onboarding, where we’re digging in a little bit deeper. We’re trying to really put together, what does the brand stand for, what are their strengths and weaknesses? And then we have the deeper dive, the strategy and differentiation. And this is where we’re really going in and getting more granular with the specific value points that they offer, doing some of that messaging analysis, finding, finding some of the gaps of the things that they’re talking about or not talking about, and going in deeper. So it kind of break it up into these buckets, based on my experience of how we engage with clients. Does that? Does that make sense to you, like, does that? Christian Klepp  14:28 It does make sense, I think. But what could be helpful for the audience is because this, this almost looks like it’s a pre cooked meal. All right, so what do we do we try another I mean, I think you use Slack for the analysis. Why don’t we use another brand, and then just pop it into that analysis field, and then see what it comes out with. Clay Ostrom  14:51 So the nice thing about this is, if you are looking at a brand that’s been analyzed, you’re going to get the data up really quickly. It’ll be basically pop up instantly. But you can analyze a brand from scratch as well. Just takes about a minute or so, basically, to kind of do some of the analysis. So for the sake of a demo, it’s a little easier just to kind of look at something that we’ve got in there. But if it’s a brand that you know, maybe you’re looking at a competitor for one of your brands, you know, there’s a good chance, because we’ve got about 6000 brands that we’ve analyzed in here, that there’s a good chance there’ll be some info on them. But so this is pipe drive. So whoever’s not familiar Pipedrive is, you know, it’s a CRM  (Customer Relationship Management), it’s, it’s basically, you know, it’s a lighter version of a HubSpot or Salesforce basically track deals and opportunities for business, but this so I flipped over. I don’t know if it was clear there, but I flipped over to this brand brief tab. And this is where we we get, essentially, a high level view of some key points about the brand and and I think about this as this would be something that you would potentially share with a client if you were, you know, working with them and you wanted to review the brand with them and make sure that your analysis is on point, but you’ll see it’s kind of giving you some positioning scores, where you rank from a category perspective, message clarity, and then we’ve got things like a quick overview, positioning summary, who their target persona is, in this case, sales manager, sales operation lead, and some different value points. And then it starts to get a little more granular. We get into like key competitors, Challenger brands. We do a little SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats) analysis, and then maybe one of the more important parts is some of these action items. So what do we do with this? Yeah, and obviously, these are, these are starting points. This is not, it’s not going to come in and, you know, instantly be able to tell you strategically, exactly what to do, but it’s going to give you some ideas of based on the things we’ve seen. Here are some reasonable points that you might want to be looking at to, you know, improve the brand. Make it make it stronger. Christian Klepp  17:13 Gotcha. Gotcha. Now, this is all great clay, but like, I think, for the benefit of the audience, can we scroll back up, please. And let’s just walk through these one by one, because I think it’s important for the audience/potential future users,/ customers of Smoke Ladder, right? To understand, to understand this analysis in greater depth, and also, like, specifically, like, let’s start with a positioning score right, like, out of 100 like, what is this? What is this based on? And how was this analyzed? Let’s start with that. Clay Ostrom  17:48 Yeah, and this is where the platform really started. And I’m going to actually jump over to the positioning tab, because this will give us the all the detail around this particular feature. But this is, this was where I began the product this. I kind of think of this as being, in many ways, sort of the heart and soul of it. And when I mentioned earlier about this being based on our own work and frameworks and how we approach this, this is very much the case with this. This is, you know, the approach we use with the product is exactly how we work with clients when we’re evaluating their positioning. And it’s, it’s basically, it’s built off a series of scores. And what we have here are 24 different points of business value, which, if we zoom in just a little bit down here, we can see things like reducing risk, vision, lowering cost, variety, expertise, stability, etc. So there’s 24 of these that we look at, and it’s meant to be a way that we can look across different brands and compare and contrast them. So it’s creating, like, a consistent way of looking at brands, even if they’re not in the same category, or, you know, have slightly different operating models, etc. But what we do is we go in and we score every brand on each of these 24 points. And if we scroll down here a little bit, we can see the point of value, the exact score they got, the category average, so how it compares against, you know, all the other brands we’ve analyzed, and then a little bit of qualitative information about why they got the score. Christian Klepp  19:27 Sorry, Clay, Can I just jump in for a second so these, these attributes, or these key values that you had in the graph at the top right, like, are these consistent throughout regardless of what brand is being analyzed, or the least change. Clay Ostrom  19:42 It’s consistent. Christian Klepp  19:43 Consistent? Clay Ostrom  19:44 Yeah, and that was one of the sort of strategic decisions we had to make with the product. Was, you know, there’s a, maybe another version of this, where you do different points depending on maybe the category, or, you know, things like that. But I wanted to do it consistent because, again, it allows us to look at every brand through the same lens. It doesn’t mean that every brand you know there are certain points of value that just aren’t maybe relevant for a particular brand, and that’s fine, they just won’t score as highly in those but at least it gives us a consistent way to look at so when you’re looking at 10 different competitors, you know you’ve got a consistent way to look at them together,. Christian Klepp  20:26 Right, right, right. Okay, okay, all right, thanks for that. Now let’s go down to the next section there, where you’ve got, like this table with like four different columns here. So you mentioned that these are being scored against other brands in their category. Like, can you share it with the audience? Like, how many other brands are being analyzed here? Clay Ostrom  20:51 Yeah, well, it depends on the category. So again, we’ve got six, you know, heading towards 7000 brands that we’ve analyzed collectively. Each category varies a little bit, but, you know, some categories, we have more brands than others. But what this allows us to do is, again, to quickly look at this and say, okay, for pipe drive, a big focus for pipe drive is organization, simplification. You know, one of their big value props is we’re an easier tool to use than Salesforce or HubSpot. You can get up to speed really quickly. You don’t have all the setup and configurations and all that kind of stuff. So this is showing us that, yes, like their messaging, their content, their brand, does, in fact, do a good job of making it clear that simplicity is a big part of pipe drive’s message. And they do that by talking about it a lot in their messaging, having case studies, having testimonials, all these things that support it. And that’s how we come up with these scores. Is by saying, like the brand emphasizes these points well, they talk about it clearly, and that’s what we base it on. Christian Klepp  22:04 Okay, okay. Clay Ostrom  22:06 But as you come, I was just gonna say as you come down here, you can see, so the green basically means that they score well above average for that particular point. Yellow is, you know, kind of right around average, or maybe slightly above, and then red means that they’re below average for that particular point. So for example, like variety of tools, they don’t emphasize that as much with pipe drive, maybe compared to, again, like a Salesforce or a HubSpot that has a gazillion tools, pipe drive, that’s not a big focus for them. So they don’t score as highly there, but you can kind of just get a quick view of, okay, here are the things that they’re really strong with, and here are the things that maybe they’re, you know, kind of weak or below average. Christian Klepp  22:58 Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s certainly interesting, because I, you know, I’ve, I’ve used the, I’ve used the platform for analyzing some of my clients, competitor brands. And, you know, when I’m looking at this, like analysis with the scoring, with the scoring sheet, it, I think it will also be interesting perhaps in future, because you’ve got a very detailed breakdown of, okay, the factors and how they’re scored, and what the brand value analysis is also, because, again, in the interest of speed and time, it’d be great if the platform can also churn out maybe a one to two sentence like, summary of what is this data telling us, right? Because I’m thinking back to my early days as a product manager, and we would spend hours, like back then on Excel spreadsheets. I’m dating myself a little bit here, but um, and coming up with this analysis and charts, but presenting that to senior management, all they wanted to know was the one to two sentence summary of like, come on. What are you telling me with all these charts, like, what is the data telling you that we need to know? Right? Clay Ostrom  24:07 I know it’s so funny. We again, as strategists and researchers, we love to nerd out about the granular details, but you’re right. When you’re talking to a leader at a business, it does come down to like, okay, great. What do we do? And so, and I flipped back over to slacks. I knew I had already generated this but, but we’re still in the positioning section here, but we have this get insights feature. So basically it will look at all those scores and give you kind of, I think, similar to what you’re describing. Like, here’s three takeaways from what we’re seeing. Okay, okay, great, yeah, so we don’t want to leave you totally on your own to have to figure it all out. We’ll give you, give you a little helping hand. Christian Klepp  24:53 Yeah. You don’t want to be like in those western movies, you’re on your own kid. Clay Ostrom  24:59 Yeah. We try not to strand you again. There’s a lot of data here. I think that’s one of the strengths and and challenges with the platform, is that we try to give you a lot of data. And for some people, you may not want to have to sift through all of it. You might want just sort of give me the three points here. Christian Klepp  25:19 Absolutely, absolutely. And at the very least they can start pointing you in the right direction, and then you could be, you could then, like, through your own initiative, and perhaps dig a little bit deeper and perhaps find some other insights that may be, may be relevant, right? Clay Ostrom  25:35 Totally. Christian Klepp  25:36 Hey, it’s Christian Klepp here. We’ll get back to the episode in a second. But first, I’d like to tell you about a new series that we’re launching on our show. As the B2B landscape evolves, marketers need to adapt and leverage the latest marketing tools and software to become more efficient. Enter B2B Marketers on a Mission Marketing Demo Lab where experts discuss the latest tools and software that empower you to become a better B2B marketer. Tune in as we chat with product experts. Provide unbiased product reviews, give advice and deliver insights into real world applications and actionable tips on tools and technologies for B2B marketing. Subscribe to the Marketing Demo Lab, YouTube channel and B2B Marketers on a Mission, on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Christian Klepp  26:21 All right. Now, back to the show, if we can, if we could jump back, sorry, to the, I think it was the brand brief, right? Like, where we where we started out, and I said, let’s, let’s dig deeper. Okay, so then, then we have, okay, so we talked about positioning score. Now we’re moving on to category rank and message clarity score. What does that look like? Clay Ostrom  26:41 Yeah. So the category rank is, it’s literally just looking at the positioning score that you’ve gotten for the brand and then telling you within this category, where do you sort of fall in the ranking, essentially, or, like, you know, how do we, you know, for comparing the score against all the competitors, where do you fall? So you can see, with Slack, they’re right in the middle. And it’s interesting, because with a product like Slack, even though we all now know what slack is and what it does and everything. Christian Klepp  27:18 Yeah. Clay Ostrom  27:19 The actual messaging and content that they have now, I think maybe doesn’t do as good of a job as it maybe did once upon a time, and it’s gotten as products grow and brands grow, they tend to get more vague, a little more broad with what they talk about, and that kind of leads to softer positioning. So that’s sort of what we’re seeing reflected here. And then the third score is the message clarity score, which we can jump into, like, a whole different piece. Christian Klepp  27:48 Four on a tennis not a very high score, right? Clay Ostrom  27:52 Yeah. And again, I think it’s a product, of, we can kind of jump into that section. Christian Klepp  27:57 Yeah, let’s do that, yeah. Clay Ostrom  27:59 But it’s, again, a product, I think of Slack being now a very mature product that is has gotten sort of a little vague, maybe a little broader, with their messaging. But the message clarity score, we basically have kind of two parts to this on the left hand side are some insights that we gather based on the messaging. So what’s your category, quick synopsis of the product. But then we also do some things, like… Christian Klepp  28:33 Confusing part the most confusing. Clay Ostrom  28:36 Honestly to me, as I get I’d love to hear your experience with this, but coming into a new brand, this is sometimes one of the most enlightening parts, because it shows me quickly where some gaps in what we’re talking about, and in this case, just kind of hits on what we were just saying a minute ago. Of the messaging is overloaded with generic productivity buzzwords, fails to clearly differentiate how Slack is better than email or similar tools, etc. But also, this is another one that I really like, and I use this all the time, which is the casual description. So rather than this technical garbage jargon, you know, speak, just give me. Give it to me in plain English, like we’re just chatting. And so this description of it’s a workplace chat app for teams to message, collaborate, share files. Like, okay, cool. Like, yeah, you know, I get it. Yeah, I already know what slack is. But if I didn’t, that would tell me pretty well. Christian Klepp  29:33 Absolutely, yeah, yeah. No, my experience with this is has been, you know, you and I have been in the branding space for a while. So for the trained eye, when you look at messaging, you’ll know if it’s good or not, right. And we come I mean, I’m sure you do the same clay, but I also come to my own like conclusions based on experience of like, okay, so why do I think that that’s good messaging, or why do I think that that’s confusing messaging? Or it falls short, and why and how can that be improved? But it’s always good to have validation with either with platforms like this, where you have a you have AI, or you have, you have a software that you can use that analyzes, like, for example, like the messaging on a website, and it dissects that and says, Well, okay, so this is what they’re getting, right? So there’s a scoring for that, so it’s in the green, and then this is, this is where it gets confusing, right? So even you run that through, you run that through the machine, and the machine analyzes it as like, Okay, we can’t clearly, clearly define what it is they’re doing based on the messaging, right? And for me, that’s always a it’s good. It’s almost like getting a second doctor’s opinion, right? And then you go, Aha. So I we’ve identified the symptoms now. So let’s find the penicillin, right? Like, let’s find the remedy for this, right? Clay Ostrom  30:56 Yeah, well, and I like what you said there, because part of the value, I think, with this is it’s an objective perspective on the brand, so it doesn’t have any baggage. It’s coming in with fresh eyes, the same way a new customer would come into your website, where they don’t know really much about you, and they have to just take what you’re giving at face value about what you present. And we as people working on brands get completely blinded around what’s actually working, what’s being communicated. There’s so much that we take for granted about what we already know about the brand. And this comes in and just says, Okay, I’m just, I’m just taking what you give me, and I’m going to tell you what I see, and I see some gaps around some of these things. You know, I don’t have the benefit of sitting in your weekly stand up meeting and hearing all the descriptions of what you’re actually doing. Christian Klepp  31:59 I’m sorry to jump in. I’m interested to know, like, just, just based on what we’ve been reviewing so far, like, what has your experience been showing this kind of analysis to clients, and how do they respond to some of this data, for example, that you know, you’re walking us through right now? Clay Ostrom  32:18 Yeah, I think it’s been interesting. Honestly, I think it can sometimes feel harsh. And I think again, as someone who’s both run an agency and also built worked on brands, we get attached to our work on an emotional level. Christian Klepp  32:42 Absolutely. Clay Ostrom  32:42 Even if we think about it as, you know, this is just work, and it’s, you know, whatever, we still build up connections with our work and we want it to be good. And so I think there’s sometimes a little bit of a feeling of wow, like that’s harsh, or I would have expected or thought we would have done better or scored better in certain areas, but that is almost always followed up with but I’m so glad to know where, where we’re struggling, because now I can fix it. I can actually know what to focus on to fix, and that, to me, is what it’s all about, is, yes, there’s a little bit of feelings attached to some of these things, maybe, but at the end of the day, we really want it to be good. We want it to be clear. We don’t want to be a 4 out of 10. We want to be a 10 out of 10. And what specifically do we need to do to get there? And that’s really what we’re trying to reveal with this. So I think, you know, everybody’s a little different, but I would say the reactions are typically a mix of that. It’s like, maybe an ouch, but a Oh, good. Let’s work on it. Christian Klepp  33:55 Absolutely, absolutely. Okay. So we’ve got brand summary, we’ve got fundamentals, then quality of messaging is the other part of it, right? Clay Ostrom  34:02 So, yeah, so this, this is, this is where the actual 4 out of 10 comes. We have these 10 points that we look at and we say, Okay, are you communicating these things clearly? Are you communicating who your target customer is, your category, your offering, where you’re differentiated benefits? Do you have any kind of concrete claim about what you do to support you know what you’re what you’re selling? Is the messaging engaging? Is it concise? You’ll see here a 7% on concise. That’s basically telling us that virtually no brands do a good job of being concise. Only about 7% get a green check mark on this, and kind of similar with the jargon and the vague words big struggle points with almost every brand. Christian Klepp  34:55 Streamline collaboration. Clay Ostrom  34:58 So we can see here with Slack. You know some of the jargon we got, KPIs (Key Performance Indicators), MQLs (Marketing Qualified Lead), if you’re in the space, you could argue like, oh, I kind of know what those things are. But depending on your role, you may not always know. In something like Salesforce marketing cloud, unless you’re a real Salesforce nerd, you probably have no idea what that is. But again, it’s just a way to quickly identify some of those weak points, things that we could improve to make our message more clear. Christian Klepp  35:27 Yes, yes. Okay, so that was the messaging analysis correct? Clay Ostrom  35:33 Yeah. Christian Klepp  35:33 Yeah. Okay. So what else have we got? Clay Ostrom  35:36 Yeah, so I think one other thing we could look at just for a sec, is differentiation, and this is this kind of plays off of what we looked at a minute ago with the positioning scores. But this is a way for us to look head to head with two different brands. So in this case, we’ve got Slack in the red and we’ve got Discord in the greenish blue. And I think of these, these patterns, as sort of the fingerprint of your brand. So where you Where are you strong? Where are you weak? And if we can overlay those two fingerprints on top of each other, we can see, where do we have advantages, and where does our competitor have advantages? So if we come down, we can sort of see, and this is again, for the nerds like me, to be able to come in and go deep, do kind of a deep dive on specifically, why did, why does Discord score better than Slack in certain areas. And at the bottom here we can see a kind of a quick summary. So slack is stronger in simplification, saving time, Discord has some better messaging around generating revenue, lowering costs, marketability. But again, this gives us a way to think about what are the things we want to double down on? So what do we want to actually be known for in the market? Because we can’t be known for everything. You know, buyers can maybe only remember a couple things about us. What are those couple things where we’re really strong, where we really stand out, and we’ve got some separation from the competitors. Christian Klepp  37:18 Right, okay, okay, just maybe we take a step back here, because I think this is great. It’s very detailed. It gets a bit granular, but I think it’s also going back to a conversation that you and I had previously about, like, Okay, why is it so important to be armed with this knowledge, especially if you’re in the marketing role, or perhaps even an agency talking to a potential client going in there already armed with the information about their competitors. And we were talking about this being a kind of like a trust building mechanism, right? For lack of a better description, right? Clay Ostrom  38:03 Yeah, I think to me, what I like about this, and again, this does come out of 10 years of doing work, this kind of work with clients as well, is it’s so easy to fall into a space of soft descriptions around things like positioning and just sort of using vague, you know, wordings or descriptions, and when you can actually put a number on it, which, again, it’s subjective. This isn’t. This isn’t an objective metric, but it’s a way for us to compare and contrast. It allows us to have much more productive conversations with clients, where we can say we looked at your brand, we we what based on our analysis, we see that you’re scoring a 10 and a 9 on simplicity and organization, for example. Is that accurate to you like do you think that’s what you all are emphasizing the most? Does that? Does that resonate and at the same time, we can say, but your competitors are really focused on there. They have a strong, strong message around generating revenue and lowering costs for their customers. Right now, you’re not really talking about that. Is that accurate? Is that like, what you is that strategically, is that what you think you should be doing so really quickly, I’ve now framed a conversation that could have been very loose and kind of, you know, well, what do you think your strategy is about? What do you know? And instead, I can say, we see you being strong in these three points. We see your competitors being strong in these three points. What do you think about that? And I think that kind of clarity just makes the work so much more productive with clients, or just again, working on your own brand internally. So what do you think about that kind of perspective? Christian Klepp  40:08 Yeah, no, no, I definitely agree with that. It’s always and I’ve been that type of person anyway that you know you go into a especially with somebody that hasn’t quite become a client yet, right? One of the most important things is also, how should I put this? Certainly the trust building part of it needs to be there. The other part is definitely a demonstration of competence and ability, but it’s also that you’ve been proactive and done your homework, versus like, Okay, I’m I’m just here as an order taker, right? And let’s just tell me what to do, and I’ll do it right? A lot and especially, I think this has been a trend for a long time already, but a lot of the clients that I’ve worked with now in the past, they want to, they’re looking for a partner that’s not just thinking with them, it’s someone that’s thinking ahead of them. And this type of work, you know what we’re seeing here on screen, this is the type of work that I would consider thinking ahead of them, right? Clay Ostrom  41:18 No, I agree. I think you framed that really well. Of we’re trying to build trust, because if we’re going to make any kind of recommendations around a change or a shift, they have to believe that we know what we’re talking about, that we’re competent, that we’ve done the work. And I think I agree with you. I think like this, it’s kind of funny, like we all, I think, on some base level, are attracted to numbers and scores. It just gives us something to latch on to. But I think it also, like you said, it gives you a feeling that you’ve done your work, that you’ve done your homework, you’ve studied, you’ve you’ve done some analysis that they themselves may have never done on this level. And that’s a big value. Christian Klepp  42:08 Yes, and a big part of the reason just to, just to build on what you said, a big part of the reason why they haven’t done this type of work is because it’s not so much. The cost is certainly one part of it, but it’s the time, it’s a time factor and the resource and the effort that needs to be put into it. Because, you know, like, tell me if you’ve never heard this one before, but there are some, there are some companies that we’ve been working with that don’t actually have a clearly, like, you know, a clear document on who their their target personas are, yeah, or their or their ICPs, never mind the buyer’s journey map. They don’t, they don’t even have the personas mapped out, right? Clay Ostrom  42:52 100% Yeah, it’s, and it’s, I think you’re right. It’s, it’s a mix of time and it’s a mix of just experience where, if you are internal with a brand, you don’t do this kind of work all the time. You might do it at the beginning. Maybe you do a check in every once in a while, but you need someone who’s done this a lot with a lot of different brands so that they can give you guidance through this kind of framework. But so it’s, you know, so some of it is a mix of, you know, we don’t have the time always to dig in like this. But some of it is we don’t even know how to do it, even if we did have the time. So it’s hopefully giving, again, providing some different frameworks and different ways of looking at it. Christian Klepp  43:41 Absolutely, absolutely. So okay, so we’ve gone through. What is it now, the competitor comparison. What else does the platform provide us that the listeners and the audience should be paying attention to here? Clay Ostrom  43:55 So I’ll show you two more quick things. So one is this message building section. So this is… Christian Klepp  44:03 Are you trying to put me out of a job here Clay? Clay Ostrom  44:07 Well, I’ll say this. So far in my experience with this, it’s not going to put us out of a job, but it is going to hopefully make our job easier and better. It’s going to make us better at the work we do. And that’s really, I think that’s, I think that’s kind of, most people’s impression of AI at this point is that it’s not quite there to replace us, but it’s sure, certainly can enhance what we do. Christian Klepp  44:36 Yeah, you’ll excuse me, I couldn’t help but throw that one out. Clay Ostrom  44:38 Yeah, I know, trust me, I’m this. It’s like I’m building a product that, in a sense, is undercutting, you know, the work that I do. So it is kind of a weird thing, but this message building section, which is a new part of the platform. It will come in, and you can see on the right hand side. And there’s sort of a quick summary of all these different elements that we’ve already analyzed. And then it’s going to give you some generated copy ideas, including, if I zoom in a little bit here, we’ve got an eyebrow category. This is again for Slack. It’s giving us a headline idea, stay informed without endless emails. Sub headline call to action, three challenges that your customers are facing, and then three points about your solution that help address those for customers. So it’s certainly not writing all of your copy for you, but if you’re starting from scratch, or you’re working on something new, or even if you’re trying to refresh a brand. I think this can be helpful to give you some messaging that’s hopefully clear. That’s something that I think a lot of messaging misses, especially in B2B, it’s, it’s not always super clear, like what you even do. Christian Klepp  45:56 Don’t get me started. Clay Ostrom  45:59 So hopefully it’s clear. It’s, you know, again, it’s giving you some different ideas. And that you’ll see down here at the bottom, you can, you can iterate on this. So we’ve got several versions. You can actually come in and, you know, you can edit it yourself. So if you say, like, well, I like that, but not quite that, you know, I can, you know, get my human touch on it as well. But yeah, so it’s a place to iterate on message. Christian Klepp  46:25 You can kind of look at it like, let’s say, if you’re writing a blog article, and this will give you the outline, right? Yeah. And then most of the AI that I’ve worked with to generate outlines, they’re not quite there. But again, if you’re starting from zero and you want to go from zero to 100 Well, that’ll, that’ll at least get you to 40 or 50, right? But I’m curious to know, because we’re looking at this now, and I think this, I mean, for me, this is, this is fascinating, but, like, maybe, maybe this will be part of your next iteration. But will this, will this generate messaging that’s already SEO optimized. Clay Ostrom  47:02 You know, it’s not specifically geared towards that, but I would say that it ends up being maybe more optimized than a lot of other messaging because it puts such an emphasis on clarity, it naturally includes words and phrases that I think are commonly used in the space more so than you know, maybe just kind of typical off the shelf Big B2B messaging, Christian Klepp  47:27 Gotcha. I had a question on the target persona that you’ve got here on screen, right? So how does the platform generate the information that will then populate that field because, and when I’m just trying to think about like, you know, because I’ve been, I’ve been in the space for as long as you have, and the way that I’ve generated target personas in the past was not by making a wild guess about, like, you know, looking at the brand’s website. It’s like having conducting deep customer research and listening to hours and hours of recordings, and from there, generating a persona. And this has done it in seconds. So… Clay Ostrom  48:09 Yeah, it’s so the way the system works in a couple different layers. So it does an initial analysis, where it does positioning, messaging analysis and category analysis, then you can generate the persona on top of that. So it takes all the learnings that it got from the category, from the product, from your messaging, and then develops a persona around that. And it’s, of course, able to also pull in, you know, the AI is able to reference things that it knows about the space in general. But I have found, and this is true. I was just having a conversation with someone who works on a very niche brand for a very specific audience, and I was showing him what it had output. And I said, Tell me, like, Don’t hold back. Like, is this accurate? He said, Yeah, this is, like, shockingly accurate for you know, how we view our target customer. So I think it’s pretty good. It’s not again, not going to be perfect. You’re going to need to do some work, and you still got to do the research, but, but, yeah. Christian Klepp  49:13 Okay, fantastic, fantastic. How do, I guess there’s the option, I see it there, like, download the PDF. So anything that’s analyzed on the platform can then be exported in a PDF format, right? Like, like, into a report. Clay Ostrom  49:28 Yeah, right now you can export the messaging analysis, or, sorry, the the messaging ideation that you’ve done, and then in the brand brief you can also, you can download a PDF of the brand brief as well. So, those are the two main areas. I’m still working on some additional exports of data so that people can pull it into a spreadsheet and do some other stuff with it. Christian Klepp  49:49 Fantastic, fantastic. That’s awesome, Clay. I’ve got a couple more questions before I let you go. But this has been, this has been amazing, right? Like and I really hope that whoever’s in the one listening and, most importantly, watching this, I hope that you really do consider like, you know, taking this for a test drive, right? How many I might have asked you this before, because, you know, I am somebody that does use, you know, that does a lot of this type of research. But how much time would you say companies would save by using Smoke Ladder? Clay Ostrom  50:24 It’s a good question. I feel like I’m starting to get some feedback around that with from our users, but I mean, for me personally, I would typically spend an hour or two just to get kind of up to speed initially, with a brand and kind of look at some of their competitors. If I’m doing a deep dive, though, if I’m actually doing some of the deeper research work, it could be several hours per client. So I don’t know. On a given week, it might depend on how many clients you’re talking to. Could be anywhere from a few hours to 10 hours or more, depending on how much work you’re doing. But, yeah, I think it’s a decent amount. Christian Klepp  51:07 Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, this definitely does look like a time saver. Here comes my favorite question, which you’re gonna look at me like, Okay, I gotta, I gotta. Clay Ostrom  51:17 Now bring it on. Let’s go. Christian Klepp  51:22 Folks that are not familiar with Smoke Ladder are gonna look at this, um, and before they actually, um, take it upon themselves to, like, watch, hopefully, watch this video on our channel. Um, they’re gonna look at that and ask themselves, Well, what is it that Smoke Ladder does that? You know that other AI couldn’t do, right, like, so I guess what I’m trying to say is, like, Okay, why would they use? How does the platform differ from something like ChatGPT, Perplexity or Claude, right? To run a brand analysis? Clay Ostrom  52:00 Yeah, no, I think it’s a great question. I think it’s sort of the it’s going to be the eternal AI question for every product that has an AI component. And I would say to me, it’s three things. So one is the data, which we talked about, and I didn’t show you this earlier, but there is a search capability in here to go through our full archive of all the brands we’ve analyzed, and again, we’ve analyzed over 6000 brands. So the data piece is really important here, because it means we’re not just giving you insights and analysis based on the brand that you’re looking at now, but we can compare and contrast against all the other brands that we’ve looked at in the space, and that’s something that you’re not going to get by just using some off the shelf standard LLM  (Large Language Model) and doing some, you know, some quick prompts with that. The next one, I think, to me that’s important is it’s the point of view of the product and the brand. Like I said, this is built off of 10 plus years of doing positioning and messaging work in the space. So you’re getting to tap into that expertise and that approach of how we do things and building frameworks that make this work easier and more productive that you wouldn’t get, or you wouldn’t know, just on your own. And then the last one, the last point, which is sort of the kind of like the generic software answer, is you get a visual interface for this stuff. It’s the difference between using QuickBooks versus a spreadsheet. You can do a lot of the same stuff that you do in QuickBooks and a spreadsheet, but wouldn’t you rather have a nice interface and some easy buttons to click that make your job way, way easier and do a lot of the work for you and also be able to present it in a way that’s digestible and something you could share with clients? So the visual component in the UI is sort of that last piece. Christian Klepp  54:01 Absolutely. I mean, it’s almost like UX and UI one on one. That’s, that’s pretty much like a big part of, I think what it is you’re trying to build here, right? Clay Ostrom  54:13 Yeah, exactly. It’s just it’s making all of those things that you might do in an LLM just way, way easier. You know, you basically come in, put in your URL and click a button, and you’re getting access to all the data and all the insights and all this stuff so. Christian Klepp  54:29 Absolutely, absolutely okay. And as we wrap this up, this has been a fantastic conversation, by the way, how can the audience start using Smoke Ladder, and how can they get in touch with you if they have questions, and hopefully good questions. Clay Ostrom  54:47 Yeah, so you can, if you go to https://smokeladder.com/ you can, you can try it out. Like I said, you can basically go to the homepage, put in a URL and get started. You don’t even have to create an account to do the initial analysis. But you can create FREE account. You can dig in and see, you know, play around with all the features, and if you use it more, you know, we give you a little bit of a trial period. And if you use it beyond that, then you can pay and continue to use it, but, but you can get a really good flavor of it for free. Christian Klepp  55:16 Fantastic, fantastic. Oh, last question, because, you know, it’s looking me right in the face now, industry categories. How many? How many categories can be analyzed on the platform? Clay Ostrom  55:26 Yeah, yeah. So right now, we have 23 categories in the system currently, which sounds like a lot, but when you start to dig into especially B2B, it’s we will be evolving that and continuing to add more, but currently, there’s 23 different categories of businesses in there. Christian Klepp  55:46 All right, fantastic, fantastic. Clay, man. This has been so awesome. Thank you so much for your time and for your patience and walking us through this, this incredible platform that you’ve built and continue to build. And you know, I’m excited to continue using this as it evolves. Clay Ostrom  56:06 Thank you. Yeah, no. Thanks so much. And you know, if anybody, you know, anybody who tries it out, tests it out, please feel free to reach out. We have, you know, contact info on there. You can also hit me up on LinkedIn. I spend a lot of time there, but I would love feedback, love getting notes, love hearing what’s working, what’s not, all those things. So yeah, anytime I’m always open. Christian Klepp  56:30 All right, fantastic. Once again, Clay, thanks for your time. Take care, stay safe and talk to you soon. Clay Ostrom  56:36 Thanks so much. Talk to you soon. Christian Klepp  56:37 All right. Bye for now.

This monster business is no mystery after all. As we uncover the secrets, we're wondering if manga can be in color, installing headquarters in the basement, dropping multiple fishies, fingering to win, sweating to lose, producing the Venn diagram of veins and ticklers, conducting numerous brain activities, breeding monsters in the basement, teleporting before your eyes, hiding the basement situation, connecting the parcel to the monsters, and combining a bad guy haircut with a science robe. It seems like these are signs of something to come. 00:00:00 Chris Is Steamed 00:03:13 Intro 00:04:16 Principal's Office 00:10:43 Hahn Mahlay 00:18:44 Piata Clean Up 00:20:24 Basement Dungeon 00:35:15 Reporting To The Principal's Office 00:45:17 Wrapping Up Piata 00:46:32 World Map 00:48:49 Intro To Mile 00:49:15 Real Net 00:54:54 Outro Patreon: patreon.com/retroam Bluesky: @retrogradeamnesia.bsky.social YouTube: www.youtube.com/@RetrogradeAmnesia E-Mail: podcast@retrogradeamnesia.com Website: www.retrogradeamnesia.com  

Welcome back for Part 2 of Women of Impact with Lisa Bilyeu and special guest Mark Manson. In this continuation, Mark delivers even deeper insights on navigating love, relationships, and the psychology behind attraction. Discover why women so often fall for narcissists, the hidden codependency dynamic, and the harsh truths most dating experts won't say out loud. Lisa and Mark delve into the difference between being needed and being needy, how to identify green flags, and why trust and respect matter more than love alone. With honest conversation about scorecards, emotional ownership, and the Venn diagram between attraction and compatibility, this episode is packed with empowering tools and ways for women to break free from toxic cycles. Find out exactly what makes a healthy relationship, why controlling partners fail the "no" test, and how to build a romance that amplifies the best in both partners. SHOWNOTES Evolutionary Roots Of Attraction Mark's "Three Fundamentals": Honest Living, Actions, Communication Types of Women: Receptive, Neutral, Unreceptive: What Mark Teaches Men  The Keys To Healthy Relationships: Responsibility & The "Scorecard" Trap  Nonviolent Communication & Emotional Ownership  The Willingness To Say No, Respecting Partner's Agency  Harsh Truths: Why Love Doesn't Mean Compatibility  Why Love Doesn't Solve Relationship Problems The Flip Between Victim & Player Trust And Respect: The Ultimate Relationship Amplifiers Thank you to our sponsors: True Classic: Upgrade your wardrobe at https://trueclassic.com/impact Vital Proteins: Get 20% off by going to https://www.vitalproteins.com and entering promo code WOI at check out. Found Banking: Sign up for Found for FREE today at https://found.com/lisa   Macy's: Upgrade your glam at https://macys.com OneSkin: 15% off code LISA at https://oneskin.co Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/lisa Magic Spoon: code LISABILYEU $5 off https://magicspoon.com/lisabilyeu Microperfumes: 60% Off at https://microperfumes.com/woi Follow Mark Manson: Website: https://markmanson.net  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/markmanson  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@IAmMarkManson  FOLLOW LISA BILYEU:Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/lisabilyeu/⁠YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/womenofimpact⁠Tik Tok: ⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@lisa_bilyeu?lang=enFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lisabilyeu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices