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Introduction: What About Spiritual Gifts? (1 Corinthians 12:1-11) Spiritual Gifts are FROM God and FOR Every Believer. (1 Cor 12:4-6) Spiritual Gifts Are to Be Used to BLESS the CHURCH. (1 Cor 12:7) Spiritual Gifts Come in Many FORMS. (1 Cor 12:8-10) 2 Corinthians 12:12 - The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works. Hebrews 2:4 - while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will. Wisdom Knowledge Faith Healing Miracles Luke 9:1 – And he called the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases Prophecy Distinguish between spirits Tongues Interpretation of tongues Spiritual Gifts Are Given at the HOLY SPIRIT'S DISCRETION. (1 Cor 12:11) SEEK God. Consider the INTERSECTION. Take an ASSESSMENT. Take the Spiritual Gifts Test! Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANKHint: Highlight blanks above for answers! Questions and Answers: What About Spiritual Gifts? Jeff Miller Download Audio Transcript 00:38Open up your Bibles with me, please, to the book of 1 Corinthians 12.00:45While you're turning there, let's just pause for a second, and I'm going to ask that you would please pray for me00:53to be faithful to communicate God's Word accurately and clearly as I should.01:01And I will pray for you to be open to receive what it is that God said. All right, let's pray. Father, sometimes we come to your word and I guess some passages seem to hit some of us more than others. And we're about to enter into a section that according to your word literally is for every single one of us. So I pray.01:31That Your Spirit would be the power behind the wisdom of Your Word and that You would continue to conform us into the image of Your Son, not just individually, but as a church body. Father, glorify Your name as we immerse ourselves into Your Word now. We pray in Jesus' name and all of God's people,02:02Amen. Look at 1 Corinthians 12, verse 1. Paul says,02:07Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed.02:18This section of 1 Corinthians has been a big Q&A section.02:25They had sent Paul questions and he was responding with answers.02:28And up to this point, we've mainly been dealing with earthly matters. We've been talking about liberty and marriage and gender. And now we're on to more, I guess you could say, spiritual matters. And he says, concerning spiritual gifts, look at that verse 1, I do not want you to be uninformed. I don't want you to be ignorant about spiritual gifts.02:58Spiritual Gifts. Wow, that's a phrase that really describes the church today. Right? Because as always, church, we will go to either side of the extreme. When we talk about spiritual gifts, immediately you're going to have some people on one end of the spectrum that just completely neglect or ignore them. And think, oh, that's just like,03:28Goofy, charismatic stuff, but we're like sober-minded people. You completely dismiss the role that the Holy Spirit has in the work of the church. They're just neglected. And we do church according to human intellect and creativity. And then you have people on the other end of the spectrum that don't neglect the gifts. You could say they misrepresent the gifts of the Holy Spirit.03:58And over on the other extreme, people are doing all kinds of goofy things in church saying that it's a work of the Holy Spirit. We're slain in the Spirit and we're hooping and hollering and barking and howling. It's a gift of the Spirit. Excuse me. Absolutely essential in your work for Christ. Absolutely essential04:28in the health of the church, in the health of this church, you have to understand what spiritual gifts are, and you have to use your spiritual gift in the church. All right, look at verse 2. He says, you know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to mute idols. However, you were led. What he's doing here is he's setting up a contrast.04:58by idols.05:00And we're going to see this as we go throughout this section,05:03but the Corinthians in their former pagan lifestyle05:07learned a lot of bad methods of worship.05:11Pagan methods of worship.05:13And they brought those into the church.05:15Like, I guess this is how we worship.05:17And Paul here is making the contrast.05:20Like, look, no, no, no.05:22You used to be led by idols.05:24Now, now you are led by the Holy Spirit of God.05:30The Holy Spirit. Somehow, despite how essential His role is in the church, He just doesn't seem to get the press that the other members of the Trinity get, right? I mean, we talk about Jesus a lot. His sacrifice on the cross for our sins. His resurrection from the dead.05:58We talk about God the Father a lot. But God the Holy Spirit, just is essential. The Bible says that every Christian, every born-again Christian receives the Holy Spirit. That's Romans 8 and 9, among other places. That's God's presence abiding in you. Why? Why does God's Spirit live in you? Well, there's two main reasons. One is for character, right?06:28The Holy Spirit manifests the character of Christ in you. That's the fruit of the Spirit. That's Galatians 5. That's love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. That's what the Holy Spirit does in the life of the believer manifesting those characteristics. So it's character. The other reason the Holy Spirit lives in believers is for service.06:58And that's what we're talking about in this passage today. Every believer is given a spiritual gift to be used in the church. And you're like, wow, you know, how do I know that I even have the Holy Spirit? Well, look at verse 3. Paul says, therefore, I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says,07:28Jesus is accursed. And no one can say, Jesus is Lord, except in the Holy Spirit. So how do you know you have the Holy Spirit? Here's a foundational test. How do you regard Jesus? And I don't just mean what do you say about Jesus here in church on Sunday morning or at small group. I mean in your heart, in your innermost being privately,07:58How do you regard Jesus Christ? In your heart, is Jesus Christ everything to you? Because your true heart disposition towards Jesus is manifest by the Spirit. If you're born again, Paul says, you cannot curse Jesus. And apparently some of that stuff was happening in the Corinthian church. That's a whole other study for another time.08:28Paul says, if you have the Holy Spirit living in you, you absolutely will regard Jesus Christ as your Lord. The Holy Spirit. He's not just for preachers and missionaries, by the way. The Christian life, every Christian's life, is a Holy Spirit-led and empowered life. So the question that Paul's getting into here, and Pastor Taylor's going to be talking about this more next week, here's the question on the table.08:58They asked. He's answering, so what about spiritual gifts? I mean, what are spiritual gifts? And how is it that the Holy Spirit uses spiritual gifts in the church? So on your outline, what about spiritual gifts? What about them? Paul's giving us a great foundational teaching on Holy Spirit gifts.09:28Number one, write this down. Spiritual gifts are from God and for every believer. Look at verses four through six. He says, now there are varieties of gifts, but the same spirit. And there are varieties of service, but the same Lord. And there are varieties of activities,09:58is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. He says there's many kinds of spiritual gifts, but notice he says they all come from God. And he really wants to make that point clear because you notice he mentioned every member of the Trinity as being the source of spiritual gifts. You notice that? He talks about the Holy Spirit in verse 4. He talks about Jesus Christ, the Lord, in verse 5. He talks about God, the Father,10:28in verse 6. Spiritual gifts are gifts that come from God. Now, understand that spiritual gifts are different than talents. Okay? Like a skill that you have to play an instrument or to paint a mural. Spiritual gifts are different, but listen. I can show you biblically, and that's a study for another time.10:58come from God. Absolutely.11:03But here we're talking about ministry gifts.11:06Church ministry must be Spirit-powered, not done in the flesh.11:15Why?11:19Because if we're just doing ministry in our power, in man's power,11:25we're going to get man's results.11:27But when ministry is done in God's power, we get God's results. So which do you want? At the end of the day, I want to see what God can do in this church, not what I can do. But you notice the end of verse 6, beginning of verse 7, to everyone, to each. Listen, because every Christian possesses the Holy Spirit, all Christians, all Christians are given a spiritual gift.11:59It's so fascinating because every gift is a characteristic of Jesus Christ Himself. You realize He had everything perfectly. Think about that. Jesus, God in the flesh, who embodied every characteristic perfectly. You see the Holy Spirit giving us a spiritual gift. What's going on here? Here's what's going on. The church is called the body of Christ.12:29And each member is given a gift so that collectively, we as the body of Christ become a sort of representation of Jesus Christ himself. It's absolutely mind-blowing. But God wants the church to be Christ-like, and this is how it happens. We each use our spiritual gift. We're collectively built up in all of the characteristics that Jesus Christ possessed perfectly in the Incarnation.12:57So, spiritual gifts from God for every believer. All right, number two, spiritual gifts are to be used to bless the church. Look at verse 7. He says, to each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For the common good.13:28It's kind of funny when you think about it. You're given a spiritual gift, right? But in a real sense, the spiritual gift given to you isn't even for you. Isn't that strange? God's given you a gift, but He goes, oh, that's not for you. That's for everybody else. You see, my spiritual gift is supposed to benefit you.13:57benefit me.14:01And that's why we believe in every member of ministry at Harvest Bible Chapel.14:05If you're attending here, if you consider this your church,14:09we're not shy about asking where do you want to serve.14:15Not because we're like, we need help.14:18We do need help.14:21But that's not the primary reason.14:24It's because if you're part of the church, God has gifted you to bless the church. Right? So I have to ask you, how is God using you in this church? How's God using you? If you've been given a gift that's for the common good, how is that working in your ministry?14:55Now look, I've got to tell you, we are so blessed at this church. We were talking about this not too long ago, but we have a crazy high percentage of people who are actively serving in this church in so many ways. We're not there yet, but that number needs to be 100%. And if you're attending this church and you're not serving, please hear me.15:26I just want to lovingly tell you that God hasn't called anyone to warm a seat. Nobody's spiritual gift is attendance. We need you to be using your spiritual gift for the common good. All right? So spiritual gifts are from God for every believer. Number two, spiritual gifts are to be used to bless the church.15:54And number three, spiritual gifts come in many forms. Here's where we need to spend some time. In this section here, Paul lists nine spiritual gifts. Now, this list is not exhaustive, okay? Actually, we're not going to look there today. We're going to stick in this passage as is our custom. But you can see also Romans chapter 12. You can see Ephesians chapter 4. There are other gifts than the ones that are listed.16:24here. This isn't exhaustive. This is more just representative. Spiritual gifts come in many forms. Let's look at verses 8-10. Paul says, for to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit.16:54To another, faith by the same Spirit. To another, gifts of healing by the one Spirit. To another, the working of miracles. To another, prophecy. To another, the ability to distinguish between spirits. To another, various kinds of tongues. To another, the interpretation.17:24of tongues.17:27Alright, so with spiritual gifts there are two categories.17:31There are speaking gifts and there are serving gifts.17:35But there are also two kinds of gifts.17:38There are permanent gifts.17:40There are gifts that were given that will be active in the church until our Lord returns.17:46And there are gifts that are temporary that were only for a time and purpose.17:51And this is where we get controversial.18:00Because this is where a lot of people have a lot of different opinions. But are you ready to go to Sunday school for a few minutes? Three of you? Okay. Thank you. Tristan always has my back. Always. And some of you are like, I don't know if I want to get out of here.18:23this road. Well, we're going through 1 Corinthians. This is next. And we receive God's Word as presented, right? So let's do it. But I want to talk about temporary gifts. And please hear me out before you storm out. That door's hard to slam, but it can be done. Before you storm out, before you throw anything at me, I would like you to please hear me out for a few minutes, all right?18:53Because this isn't my opinion. This is what the Bible says if you read it straightforwardly. Temporary gifts, sometimes they're called sign gifts. Those are the more miraculous type gifts. Please hear me because this is where I'm going to be misquoted, but not you. Listen, those gifts are not normative today.19:23Do I believe that they still happen? 100% I do. But they are not normative. Okay? So if somebody's like, well, what is Jeff's position on some of these sign gifts? I do not believe that they are normative today. I'm going to show you why. Can God do them? Yes. But, listen close. These sign gifts, are these spiritual gifts19:53that are possessed by people in the day of Paul and the apostles. And the answer is no. They're not possessed by people as they were in Paul's day. God still does them on occasion, not normative, but they're not possessed by people. I want to talk about miracles for a moment. Pastor Taylor and I were talking about this last week.20:23I think when we read the Bible, we get this idea that miracles were just like happening all the time, right? Like Moses woke up and like before his oatmeal, he like fired off five miracles. Boom. Not a man a meal, not oatmeal. But actually miracles in the Bible were actually very rare.20:53And apart from Moses' day, and apart from the day of Jesus in the apostles' ministry, miracles performed through men were actually very rare things. So why did we see so many miracles, especially in Moses' day, and especially in Jesus' and the apostles' day? Because this is why.21:21God performed miracles through people to verify or prove when new revelation was given. That's why it was normative in Moses' day. That's why it was normative for the apostles. Because God was giving new revelation, and that was the way He verified it. Any knucklehead can run around and say,21:51this is the new word of the Lord. And like, how can you prove that? Anybody can say that. God would verify what is actually revelation from him by backing it up with people who were giving not just this message, but performing these miracles. That's why you see that in Jesus. Why did Jesus perform so many miracles? Why did Jesus perform miracles? He's putting on a show, right?22:21He wanted to dazzle people, right? Hey, check this out. Check out what I can do. Anybody got two fishes, five loaves? Let me show you a trick. No! Jesus wasn't an entertainer. Why did Jesus do all the miracles? Actually, He referred to them as signs. Why? Because they were done to prove He is who He said He is. He's like, I'm God in the flesh. And of course, you're going to have people that were like, pfft.22:51I'm not buying that. But when you see this man raising the dead, healing the sick, feeding multitudes, you're like, there's something more to him. Right? Jesus' signs proved he is who he said he is. You're like, awesome, but what about spiritual gifts? Well, same principle here. Listen, to back the apostles'23:21while the New Testament was completed, was being completed, God authenticated the gospel with sign gifts. That's what the Bible says. You're like, where does the Bible say that? Many places. I'll give you a couple. Okay? Like 2 Corinthians 12. Look, the signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience with signs and wonders and mighty works. You see?23:51the true apostles were performing miracles. It was to authenticate the gospel message. Same thing in Hebrews 2.4. It says, while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to His will. Same principle as God was giving us the New Testament. You see, in those days, they didn't have the New Testament completed yet.24:21was being worked on by the Holy Spirit. So when somebody got up and said, let me tell you this message from God, how do we know it was from God? He backed it up with miracles. That's why when you go through the book of Acts, you see miracles less and less and less and less as you go through the book of Acts. We spent like three years in Acts, and that's what you see. In 1 Corinthians here, the book that we're studying, it was one of the earliest24:51written. So sign gifts were still very much a thing when Paul wrote this, but they were on their way out and they were ending as normative spiritual gifts when the New Testament was completed. That's why in none of the other epistles you see any talk about the spiritual gifts of miracles or healings or tongues or interpretation of tongues. You don't see that in any other25:21book in the New Testament.25:25Because it was phasing out.25:28We have God's word complete in written form,25:31so we don't need to verify it with a miracle.25:35God wrote it all down for us.25:37All right?25:39So, with that backdrop, I'm going to go through these quickly.25:44Each one of these could be a sermon,25:45and that's not the intention.25:49Interestingly, Paul does not explain them. He just lists them. I want to give you a little definition for each, a little understanding. So look at your spiritual gifts here, starting in verse 8. The first one is wisdom. What is wisdom? That's just skill in applying the Word of God. Do you know who typically possesses this gift are people that are counselors, whether it's formally or informally, people that are able to say, I understand how to incorporate God's truth.26:19into my life.26:21I can help you incorporate God's truth into your life.26:23It's applying the Word of God.26:24That's wisdom.26:26Next is knowledge.26:30That's understanding the Word.26:34It's somebody that can see Bible facts and knows how they fit together.26:39You know what's amazing?26:40Did you ever see these Christian authors?26:43They take like one subject and they write a whole book about it.26:46That's always amazing to me.26:48Like, how do they do that? They wrote a whole book about one subject? Well, I think a lot of them have the gift of knowledge. Right? Next is faith. Gift of faith. Now, obviously, this is faith beyond believing to get saved, because every follower of Christ has that kind of faith. Right? But you ever notice that there are some Christians that you meet that just seem to have a deeper,27:20Confidence in the Sovereignty of God. You know what I'm talking about? There's some Christians you meet, they could be going through just the worst trials a human being can go through, and they're just like, you know what? God's in control. He's got this. And they're just completely unflappable. They have the gift of faith. Those people are typically the best prayers. Right? Next on the list.27:48is healing.27:51Now again, I believe that this is one of the gifts27:55for people that was phasing out at this point.28:01But what is healing?28:02Well, it's just supernaturally healing a physical illness.28:12I wish I had that gift.28:14I wish it was still a thing.28:17And you might say, well, Pastor Jeff, I think it is still a thing. Because I saw this guy on TV. He was slapping people on the head deaf and they were getting up with full hearing. Interesting about those people, they never go to the cancer ward or the children's hospital. I mean, if I had the gift to heal people, that's the first place I'd go. You're like, oh, so you don't believe in healing? Oh, yeah, yeah. Look, listen.28:47Let's be clear. God still heals. I believe that 100%. And I have seen in this church God miraculously heal people. I believe that God heals. I'm not convinced that Benny Hinn ever did. All right? So next is miracles. Miracles. Like, wait a minute. What's the difference between miracles and healing? I'm not going to bore you with the long systematic Thompson Chain reference.29:17But here's the thing. That word for miracles, when you trace it through the New Testament, was most often connected with casting out demons. That's the difference. That's the distinction. See, that's what Jesus was talking about. Look at Luke 9.1. We'll have it on the screen. It says, and he called the twelve together, look, and gave them power and authority, here it is, over all demons and to cure diseases. So miracles.29:47In the New Testament referred to casting out demons. Again, I believe that was an apostolic era. Do I believe God still does that 100%? Absolutely, yes, He does. Normative? That a person has the gift and is running around doing that? No. All right, next is prophecy. Prophecy. Now, when we think prophecy, when we hear that word, what's the first thing we think of? Like future stuff, right?30:17Tell us the future. Well, sometimes, actually rarely, that's part of it. But you realize that's not what prophecy literally means at all. Do you know what the word prophecy is? It literally breaks down to a compound word that means speak before. You're like, speak before what? Speak before an audience. That's what prophecy is. It's somebody that stands in front of a group of people and says things.30:47Before Them. That's prophecy. It's the public speaking of God's truth. That's what happens when I get up here, Taylor or Brian or Justin or whoever stands up here proclaiming the Word of God. That is prophecy. We are speaking before. Right? Next is distinguishing between spirits. If you're interested, we did a whole sermon series on this.31:17A couple years back, this is what we more commonly call discernment. It's the ability to evaluate if something is from God or not. And in that sermon series, I'm not going to preach it all now, but I'd just like to remind you that that is something that we are all called to do. We are all called to discern what is from God and what is not from God. And again, I'll remind you that we live in a day that it is more crucial than ever because we live in a day where we have access to more information.31:47than we've ever had. You open up your phone, you're going to have 10,00031:51preachers giving you contradictory31:54message about31:55thus saith the Lord. How do we know31:57what God actually said? Discernment32:00is the gift to be able to32:01tell, he's not saying what God32:03said, but this guy definitely is, right?32:05Right?32:10Some people have that gift.32:13Alright, next gift is tongues.32:18Next gift is tongues.32:21You're like, are tongues for today?32:26People ask that, are tongues for today?32:31Yeah, tongues are for today.32:32How would you eat your ice cream otherwise, right?32:38Listen, I'm not going to go too far into this.32:42Oh, you're scared? No, not at all.32:43We're actually going to be doing a very deep dive in this. We're spending four weeks on this subject. But what is tongues biblically? Tongues is the ability to speak in a foreign language unknown to the speaker. It's a known language, by the way. It's not gibberish. It's somebody speaking an already existing language that that person doesn't know. They're just speaking it. Like I said, we're going to spend so much more time on this. And then interpretation of tongues is just simply that.33:13a person that was gifted with the ability to translate what the tongues speaker says. Many forms. One spirit. Oh, speaking of the Holy Spirit, number four. Spiritual gifts are given at the Holy Spirit's discretion.33:47Look at verse 11.33:52He says,33:54All these are empowered by one in the same Spirit34:01who apportions to each one individually as He wills.34:09As He wills.34:11The Holy Spirit, in His sovereignty, determines who does what. That's the Holy Spirit's job. Understand, as your pastor, I did not get to choose your gift. Like, oh, you want to be a part of our church? All right. Prophecy. Okay, how about you? You want to join the church? All right. Healing. You're like, you totally didn't listen to that sermon, did you? I don't get to determine that gift.34:41get to determine that gift. You know what? Preaching looks like a lot of fun. I think I'm going to ask the Holy Spirit for the prophecy gift. He is the one who determines the gift. It is a gift. And the gift giver determines the gift that he wants to give you. The gift giver determines the gift35:12that he wants to give you.35:19And I know this is a hard sell in our day.35:23I mean, Murph, you get it. You go back. We get it.35:27The gift giver determines the gift he wants to give. We get it. The younger people don't get that.35:33Like, why not? Because you know what we do in our day?35:38You know what we do in our day? We have a big event.35:42We have a baby shower, a wedding, little Joey's birthday party. He's turning five. Going to have his party at the Chuck E. Cheese. Do you know what we do today? We tell people what gifts we want, don't we? We do that. Little Joey's turning five. He's registered at Target. Right? Right?36:10Or, yeah, I'm getting married. Yeah, I'm getting married. Yeah, I'm registered at Target. We tell people the gifts that we want. I'm getting married. I want this toaster. I want this knife set. I want this vacuum. And then, I mean, we've done it. Aaron and I will go and be like, okay, this is the vacuum they want.36:40and we buy it and we wrap it up. And then they act surprised when they open it. They open it up and they're like, oh, you got me exactly what I was asking for. Oh, you shouldn't have. But you go back a generation, the gift giver determined what gift you got. Don't try that with the Holy Spirit, okay? You're baptized.37:11I'm registered at Target.37:15Well, we don't get a say in it.37:17It's His gift, right?37:19It's His gift.37:19Do you think I would have signed up for this?37:25Oh no.37:26Oh no.37:30He'll make a better choice than we would anyways.37:33Alright.37:35That's all well and good.37:36But that's really not the question37:39that we're asking right now.37:40The question that we're asking right now is how do I know what my spiritual gift is right I mean it's clear he's given all of us each of us a gift to represent the body of Christ and we're to use it in the common good we saw the kinds and you're like awesome what is my spiritual gift how do I find out what my spiritual gift is all right I'm going to give you three things we're going to close with this three things how do I know what gift I've been given letter A seek God38:10You're like, that sounds like a cop-out. No, look. If you make your life about on-your-face praying and in the Word and just get serving in the church, the Spirit's going to do what the Spirit does. He's going to be at work through you. You're going to figure that out real quick. So just don't worry about seeking a gift. Seek the gift giver. He'll do what He does.38:40That's what he does. Seek God. All right? Letter B. Consider the intersection. Like, what's the intersection? I was studying for this this week. I came across something. I thought it was super helpful. It's one of those diagrams where everything intersects. What do they call that? A Venmo diagram?39:10Venn. Not Venmo.39:20What's a Venmo?39:23Oh, that's giving money.39:26Also a spiritual gift. Right!39:30So you could Venmo your...39:31Alright.39:33I just feel like I had like an inception moment here.39:37Alright.39:38Consider the intersection.39:39Yeah.39:40All right. So I came across this Venn diagram. And I thought it was helpful. I'm going to try to recreate it here. But there's three things here. First of all, this circle here, we're going to call that, we're going to call this one ability. We're going to call this one ability. What is it that you seem, not complicated,40:10You seem like you're able to do this. Right? Of all the gifts. You're like, you know what? That's something that I seem like I'm able to do. I mean, I'm not boasting or anything. It just seems like something that I'm able to do. Okay? And then, with this one, we're going to call this one affinity. That's an idea. Okay. That's affinity. Like, well, that's an idea. Like, what do40:40I enjoy doing.40:42If somebody was like, you can do whatever you want in the church, whatever you enjoy most,40:46what would be the line I get to the front of first?40:50What's my affinity?40:53And then the third thing here, my circles are getting less and less circle-y, but I think you get the idea.41:01This one we're going to call affirmation.41:12You know, you have people maybe in your small group or other people in the church that are, they say to you, you know what? You seem like you have a real gift for teaching. You really seem like you have a gift for praying with people. So the point is this. Consider the intersection right here.41:39This is very likely your spiritual gift. I would say extremely likely. What you're able to do, what you love doing, and what people affirm that it seems like God has equipped you to do, that is very likely your spiritual gift. All right? Then letter C, assessment. Seek God, consider the intersection or assessment. We have a QR code.42:10Go ahead, take your phone out and give that a scan. Pastor Rich sent this along. But this is an online assessment. And really, I think between seeking the Lord, considering the intersection, doing the online assessment, I think that's going to get you all on your way to giving you a deeper understanding of what your spiritual gift is. So go ahead. Go ahead, do the...42:41Either scan that or Venmo me some money. Since you have your phone out and I just learned what Venmo is. Do I have a Venmo? Never mind. Aaron says I don't have a Venmo. All right. Our worship team would make their way up. While they're coming, you know, when I was in high school, I played soccer.43:11In my junior high year of playing soccer, the coach didn't like me. Why? Because I was unlikable. So I sat on the bench most of the season. Now, I knew I had the ability.43:39senior year, we had a new coach, and I didn't sit for one minute that entire season. In fact, I was co-captain of the team. But I got to tell you, I think back to that junior year of playing soccer, and I just remember feeling incredibly frustrated because I felt incredibly useless. You know, you put your shin guards on, you put your cleats on, you put your44:09your soccer uniform on.44:12And you just, I just sat there and watched the whole season.44:16Just sat there.44:21So many times I thought, why am I even here?44:25Why am I even here?44:26What am I doing?44:29I want to tell you, you don't have to worry about that with God's team44:34because there are no bench warmers.44:39God doesn't tell any of His children, you know what? You're nice and all, but you go sit over there. We don't really need you. Or you just wait, and if we decide there's a place we can squeeze you in, we'll see if we can do that. No, no, no, no, no. God's Word has made it very clear that He has called and He has gifted every single one of you.45:08this church. Let's pray. Our Father in heaven, so often we get a gift and we don't say thank you, but Father, we thank you not just for the gift of your Holy Spirit himself who lives within us, but the gift that he has given each of us to serve you and your church. For some people here, Father, this is probably brand new teaching.45:38Never really considered this. And for some people here, Father, maybe we've known this and have sort of strayed from it. But I'm asking today, Father, that your Spirit would grip every heart in this church and grip the church collectively so that we truly, as the body of Christ, might represent the person of Christ.46:08as these spirits are at work in us. So Father, I pray for the person here who maybe has been coming to this church but just hasn't stepped up. Remind them, Father, it's not just a matter of the elders and pastors and ministry team would value your input. Remind them, Father, that you have equipped them to serve your church.46:38We do so to your glory and honor. We pray in Jesus' name. Amen. Small Group DiscussionRead 1 Corinthians 12:1-11What was your big take-away from this passage / message?What does it mean that spiritual gifts are for the common good (1 Cor 12:7)?Are sign gifts such as healing and miracles still possessed by people today? Why or why not?Why is it important to understand that the Holy Spirit is the One Who chooses what gifts believers receive (1 Cor 12:11)?How do you know if a ministry is done by the power of the Holy Spirit, or done in the flesh (that is, just by “human power”)?BreakoutPray for one another.

A CONVERGENCE between the pagan world of gods and magic and the high-tech world of artificial intelligence is creating a strange Venn diagram wherein the lines between silicon and spirit are getting blurry. We discuss the use of AI by people seeking spiritual enlightenment and the development of a digital futurist that appeared at this year's South by Southwest event, Delph.ai—a reference to the oracle of Delphi, the most famous of the women in the ancient world who ostensibly passed along messages from the god Apollo. These oracles were so important that they were sought even by the emperors of Rome until they fell silent in the third century AD because of the influence of Christians (as we documented in our book Giants, Gods & Dragons). We also talked about the growing impact of Muslim migration on the United Kingdom, where its second largest city, Birmingham, just elected a Pakistani mayor who barely speaks English and prefers to communicate in Urdu. Also: The growing Ebola outbreak in Congo and Uganda now has 750 suspected cases and 177 suspected deaths. Sharon's niece, Sarah Sachleben, is fighting stage 4 bowel cancer, and the medical bills are piling up. If you are led to help, please go to GilbertHouse.org/hopeforsarah. Follow us! X (formerly Twitter): @pidradio | @sharonkgilbert | @derekgilbert | @gilberthouse_tvTelegram: t.me/gilberthouse | t.me/sharonsroom | t.me/viewfromthebunkerSubstack: gilberthouse.substack.comYouTube: @GilbertHouse | @UnravelingRevelationFacebook.com/pidradio JOIN US IN ISRAEL! We will tour the Holy Land October 11–23, 2026 with an optional three-day extension to Jordan. For more information, log on to GilbertHouse.org/travel. Thank you for making our Build Barn Better project a reality! Our 1,200 square foot pole barn has a new HVAC system, epoxy floor, 100-amp electric service, new windows, insulation, lights, and ceiling fans! If you are so led, you can help out by clicking here: gilberthouse.org/donate. Get our free app! It connects you to this podcast, our weekly Bible studies, and our weekly video programs Unraveling Revelation and A View from the Bunker. The app is available for iOS, Android, Roku, and Apple TV. Links to the app stores are at pidradio.com/app. Video on demand of our best teachings! Stream presentations and teachings based on our research at our new video on demand site: gilberthouse.org/video! Think better, feel better! Our partners at Simply Clean Foods offer freeze-dried, 100% GMO-free food and delicious, vacuum-packed fair trade coffee from Honduras. Find out more at GilbertHouse.org/store/.

Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson, veterinary epidemiologist, public health scientist, and co-founder of Fatty15 (code: BIOHACKINGBRITTANY), shares the latest science on C15:0, an odd-chain saturated fatty acid she describes as the first essential fatty acid to emerge in over 90 years. This conversation explores why C15 may be foundational for cellular resilience, metabolic health, liver health, brain development, and long-term vitality. Stephanie explains how low C15:0 levels may contribute to fragile cells, accelerated aging, and modern health issues, and why this nutrient matters not just for adults, but for pregnancy, breastfeeding, babies, and children. We also talk about food sources like full-fat dairy, cheese, butter, goat and sheep products, why grass-fed matters, how to test your C15:0 levels, and why supplement quality is becoming more important than ever. Join The LongHer Life for women-specific guidance on peptides, hormones, and longevity. WE TALK ABOUT:  00:35 - What C15:0 is and why it's being called the first essential fatty acid in over 90 years  02:55 - How low C15:0 may contribute to fragile cells and accelerated aging 05:55 - The difference between omega-3s and C15:0 for cell flexibility and resilience 07:20 - Why C15:0 matters during pregnancy, breastfeeding, and infant development 11:20 - The "longevity zone" for C15:0 and what higher levels may indicate 15:10 - Why supplement testing and third-party verification matter 18:30 - How C15:0 compares to other longevity molecules like NAD, metformin, and rapamycin 23:35 - Why C15:0 needs to be consumed regularly through food or supplementation 25:00 - Why vegans and dairy-free women may be at higher risk for low C15:0 levels 26:50 - The best food sources of C15:0, including cheese, butter, and grass-fed dairy 30:10 - Why Fatty15 created gummies for kids and families 37:35 - What we know, and don't know yet, about C15:0 and children's brain health 41:30 - Why the Navy patent may help protect supplement quality and trust 44:30 - How kids are responding to the new Fatty15 gummies 47:50 - Where to learn more, buy Fatty15, and read the research RESOURCES: Join The LongHer Life for women-specific guidance on peptides, hormones, and longevity. Free Peptide Masterclass for Women: Join the waitlist for the next live class. The Her Stack Planner: The first peptide tracking journal built around female biology. Fatty15 website (code: BIOHACKINGBRITTANY) and Instagram LET'S CONNECT: Instagram, TikTok, Facebook Shop my favorite health products Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music

In the Venn diagram of “heart” and “animation”, the overlap is Rebecca Sugar. Her series, Steven Universe, was more than just the adventures of an unusual boy's search for identity in a spectacularly imaginative spiritual/paranormal world, it was mind-expanding and profoundly human and humane literature for legions of adoring fans. Rebecca's non-animation interests are decidedly and literally much more down to earth. She is fascinated by how to build things, especially wee small houses out earthen building materials, the advantages and disadvantages of both the ingredients and of living your life outside the construct of building codes. She talks about the controversy of whether to use the terms “dirt” or “earth”, the presence of the white-throated wood rat, and what cob is when no corn is involved. Also, she plays a historical round of In The Cart Or On The Shelf. Listen to and purchase Rebecca Sugar's new album, Lonely Magic, on their Bandcamp. Hey Sleepy Heads, is there anyone whose voice you'd like to drift off to, or do you have suggestions on things we could do to aid your slumber? Email us at: sleepwithcelebs@maximumfun.org. Follow the Show on: Instagram @sleepwcelebs Bluesky @sleepwithcelebs TikTok @SleepWithCelebs John is on Bluesky @JohnMoe John's acclaimed, best-selling memoir, The Hilarious World of Depression, is now available in paperback. _________________________________________________________________________ Join | Maximum Fun If you like one or more shows on MaxFun, and you value independent artists being able to do their thing, you're the perfect person to become a MaxFun monthly member. Go to www.maximumfun.org/joinsleeping for our one-stop portal to becoming a member and supporter of Sleeping with Celebrities. Help support this show and unlock bonus content! Become a member at https://maximumfun.org/joinsleeping

In today's episode, we're digging into the archives! You're going to hear from a guest from the first season of Beer with Nat, who I initially recorded with way back in December 2018. Today's guest is drinks educator, author, and founder of the School of Booze, Jane Peyton. We'll start by hearing what Jane has been up to over the past 8 years (wow!), then re-run our initial conversation. You'll learn how a Venn diagram helped Jane to discover her perfect career path after she left behind her previous role as a documentary film producer, what it took to set a Guinness World Record, the aspect of her work she's most proud of, and more.   What stuck with me from this conversation: On establishing a national beer day for the UK: "Beer is Britain's national drink and has been for thousands of years. We do beer really well in this country… We have this history and heritage, we have our amazing pubs, we have real ale, we have a vibrant brewing scene here, but we didn't have a national beer day… so I said, I'll start one!"   Links & things: Jane's business The School of Booze And some of her many accomplishments Her qualifications The Guinness World Record she set Beer Day Britain, which she founded Jane's books Non-fiction Novels   Recording info: December 2018 in London + March 2026 voice note   ––– Subscribe | Follow on Instagram | Email

Nous continuons nos enregistrements Fijiens, et c'est au tour d'Auguste de Matagot de nous rejoindre. Il nous propose donc Trucs en Stock, un jeu coopératif (ou compétitif) de déduction et surtout d'ambiance. Qui dit jeu d'ambiance, réclame un minimum de joueureuses. Ni une, ni deux, nous embarquons Billie et Chloé dans cette aventure de vocabulaire et de diagamme de Venn. Trucs En Stock Par Peter C. Hayward Illustré par Snow Conrad Édité par Matagot De 2 à 10 joueuses Pour 8 ans et + Pour environ 20 minutes Description : Trucs en Stock : un jeu de vocabulaire et de déduction. Les joueurs incarnent des "Chercheurs" et tentent de placer correctement les cartes "Objet" dans un diagramme de Venn. Chaque anneau du diagramme a des règles spéciales. Le twist ? Un seul joueur connaît les règles secrètes. Emission présentée par Alex & Zephiriel Générique par Adrien Larouzée Twitter @ledefausse Instagram Le Dé Faussé Facebook Le Dé Faussé Envie de nous soutenir ? Vous pouvez, si vous le souhaitez, grâce au Patreon de notre collectif, le Vaisseau Hyper Sensas ! patreon.com/vaisseauhypersensas Découvrez également notre site vaisseauhypersensas.fr Rejoignez nous sur Discord! https://discord.gg/uGxNp6n

Big things are on the horizon for Betsy! A book deal, a beach move, a birthday. Tune in to this Q & A to get to know the woman behind The Art of Living Big and The Navigate Method. With lots of laughs and a few tears, this one is a great one to watch or listen to. Check out the video version on YouTube. Transcript:  Welcome to The Art of Living Big, where we explore how to live intentionally and with more joy. I’m Betsy Pake, your host, master, coach, and creator of the Navigate Method. Here to help you listen in to your true desires, elevate your standards, and live life to the fullest. Now, let’s go live big  All right, I’m excited. I’m excited to do this. I’m excited, and Feels very official. actually am, um, nervous, which is weird, ’cause I d- I mean, I’ve had this podcast for how long? Like 10 years. But I’m nervous, because I feel like we’re not… Yeah, we’re not just ask- can’t believe I’m not nervous, but I’m just excited for it. All right, I’m excited too. Okay, so let’s tell everybody who you are that’s listening. So I’m, I’m Joy, and I am Betsy’s ops person, um, her virtual assistant, go-to person hopefully. And, uh, I Yeah. job. It’s been an honor and a privilege to work for someone so innovative and caring and, , I , I can’t say enough good things about Navigate. I’m an No. member myself. I am Yeah. be working for you now years later after I completed the program. But, , I love my job. Yeah. Oh, that makes me happy. And now you can add podcast host Yeah, a resume. I don’t know about that. We’ll see. So this episode is gonna be a little different than typical. My birthday’s next week, which I wanna say, like, I don’t care, whatever, but I do. I think I do kinda care. I think I’ve always tried to not care, but I think it’s kind of fun that my birthday’s next week. , I’ll be 55, and my birthday is on 5/15, and I feel like the numbers are all, like… I feel like it’s kinda magical, and I don’t know why. I’m not, , a numerology buff or anything , but , it just feels like 55 and then this. So I’m excited to kinda do this. And so I thought what we would do is, , we asked on Instagram just for, , questions of what people had. ready. Yeah, and you’ve got them ready. Okay, and then you had some other ones of your s- your own that I don’t necessarily know all of them, , so yeah. So we’ll… we can just dive in and see where the conversation takes us. I know. I’m excited. Okay. So also I wanna say about 5:15, that’s a special number for you, isn’t it? Yeah, well, uh, uh, I think because it’s my birthday, I always am looking for 5:15. Like, I’m always… I think it’s, like, a message from my mom. I do too, because we post your podcast at 5:15. Yeah. Yes, that’s right, yeah. We post it at 5:15 a- on Thursday mornings. Yeah, yeah. That’s, I like it, and I feel like it feels balanced and also, , I know this is a weird thing, but like 5-1-5, it feels balanced, and it feels like the one is, uh… It’s not a hyphen, but a what would go this way? Do you know what I mean? Up and down. So it feels like 5-5, which feels like a mirroring and- Like, , it’s not infinity, it’s not an eight, but it feels like that to me. Like, kind of chaotic, but also measured, you know? So anyway, I love the 515, yeah. Yeah, I, I like numbers too, but I’m a, I’m an even number person. Yeah. pump gas without ending on an even number. It’s so weird. Oh, really? Yeah. I know it’s weird. I love that. It is weird. So But thanks. love that ’cause it’s weird. Are you ready for your first question? Okay. Yeah, I think so. Okay. ., So this is a question that kind of encompasses everything that you do, so it’s a good starting point, I feel like. Okay. you help women decide whether to stay or leave, and you left. , So looking back, was there a single moment that you knew, or was it a slow build that you only saw clearer in the rearview mirror? Oh, okay. That’s a really good question. I’m so scared right now. Okay. So here’s what I think to answer this question. I wanna, like, zoom way, way out, and I’m gonna start with, like I’m gonna s- I’m gonna start, like, when I’m a kid, and you’re gonna be like, “Oh my God. Is she gonna tell her whole life story?” But for those of you that are listening that are fairly new, so I believe that we are always doing things, our actions are coming from a place of trying to keep us safe. Like, emotionally safe or physically safe, right? And so even if we’re doing things sometimes that is clear that that’s not helpful, it’s because our brains think that it’s keeping us safe, and part of the reason it thinks it’s keeping us safe is ’cause we’re alive, and it’s our, our unconscious mind’s prime directive is to keep us alive. So whatever we’re doing is hypothetically working ’cause you’re alive, okay? So when I was in high school, my mom died in a car accident, and pretty soon after that my dad got remarried. Now, he was married to my mom and, , f- by all accounts was happy enough, you know? And then he started dating somebody, I would say within, , eight or nine months of my mom dying, and then they got married very quickly. It wasn’t, , the best relationship. They’re all still alive, so I wanna be careful of how I speak about it. But it wasn’t… I, I, I was se- 17 by the time they got married, and it wasn’t a safe relationship for me, and so I think I did a lot of accommodating to- Feel safe. So I would get in trouble for a lot of things, and I had never been a kid that ever got in trouble. Do you know what I mean? , My, my mother was always so, so kind and , respectful of my sister and I. So that whole relationship, I think, really changed the dynamic of how I experienced relationships. And I think I was pretty, like when we think about attachment theory, like I think I was securely attached and then became anxious after my mom died in that whole experience. Okay. So now, when the question is, like, when you got d- divorced, was it all at once or was it a, a, you know, slow burn? I wanna say… I- I’m gonna tell you my journey of … Joy’s like, “This is a longer answer than I expected.” But the, , the jour- the journey of, of… Let me tell you why I am so chic. Because I have been married several times. And so to answer that question I’m like, “Well, which time?” Okay. When I was in college, I got married right after college, and, I got divorced very quickly. … We didn’t have kids. Like, there was no… And so I know that that was a marriage. We had a wedding. It… But in my brain it doesn’t feel like one. It feels like such a blip, and I was so young, and honestly, I was coming right off the heels of my mom dying, like five years before or something. Do you know what I mean? , It all feels very blurry. And so then years later I met my son’s dad, and that was my second marriage, but felt like my first. It operated like my first. And more importantly, my third marriage operated like my second. I sound very chic, Joy. I’m very chic. Um, so my first marriage, I think I, I, I… What I have found in my relationships in general, marriages or otherwise, is that I have chosen people that I could try and heal that relationship with my dad. Like, I’m gonna tell you something’s wrong, and you’re gonna ignore me and tell me I’m misreading it, which is what happened when I was young. And so I would find people unconsciously that I could play that out because that felt safe, because that was so familiar, right? And so I, I think that I did that with my first marriage, and I was not mature enough to recognize that there was something going on within me. And then I got divorced when my son, m- and I have a trans son, so when my son was four. And then again, you know, replayed stuff. Had some terrible relationships in between all of that. And then married my last, my last and final. I will never get the government involved ever again. So my, my most recent marriage, and that was a marriage that lasted… We were married for 12 years. We were together, like, 15 years. And I think I was playing the same exact thing out, but the difference this time, and what I teach inside the Navigate method, is that we can trust ourselves, right? That we can find the, our side of the street and heal our side of the street. That we can use the relationship as a mirror to figure ourselves out so much deep, much deeper. And so I think I knew almost immediately that my marriage wasn’t good, and for a lot of circumstances, I stayed for a long time. I think I didn’t wanna fail again. I think my , r- you know, relationship with my, then my daughter at that time was complicated, ’cause she was getting sick as a teenager, and there was just a lot of things going on where, , it didn’t… I couldn’t leave. And I say I couldn’t. I had options, but, , I, I didn’t feel like I could leave, and I didn’t want to. I wanted desperately for it to be good. And what I realize now is that going through that whole process and actually using it to heal myself, and now I would say I’m absolutely securely attached, earned secure, because I earned it back. But that relationship, although, , one of the most heinous in my life I think, I’m the most grateful for it. It changed me in such profound ways because I did the work, because I looked at it, because I paid attention and didn’t say, “I’m gonna let…”, I was like, “I’m not letting…” This is, it, to me, and I’m gonna say this too as we continue this conversation, in my relationships, any of them, I’m not the only one in them. And so, you know, if you brought my former husband, any of select one, any of the many former husbands, like they may have a totally different story, and it doesn’t mean they’re wrong. It just means that’s our versions, and there’s a truth in there somewhere in the middle, right? But to me, I’m like, that relationship was so profoundly, , harmful to me that it forced me into change, and for that I am incredibly, incredibly grateful. So to answer the question, it didn’t happen all at once, but the clarity of, oh, I’m healed enough to do this on my own, I get it, sort of unraveled within, , I would say, like, the last six or eight months. If that makes sense. That is a very answer to that question. sense. and you needed the backstory to, to complete that, Yeah. Yeah. that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, Okay. question. Okay. It’s okay, it’s okay. Okay. What’s something that you believed about your own marriage right up until the end that turned out not to be true? Oh, question. God, that’s a good question. Is that one of yours, or is that one that we got in? That’s one that was the myth. What is some… Say it again, something that’s true What is was true. about your own marriage right up until the end that turned out not to be true? That’s… That there was something I could have done to save it. I don’t think there was anything I could have done. I think lots of times we try and make sense of things, and we’re like, “If I could have done this better,” or, “Maybe if I had just learned how to cook dinner better,” or I had… Do you know what I mean? Like, we think of all the things, and now I recognize that what was happening, just like for him, none of what I was doing had to do with him. It was, had to do with this old story. The same thing for him. What he was doing and how he was responding and how he was interacting with me had nothing to do with me, and there was nothing I could have done, and I think that actually brings me a lot of peace. But it, uh, it took me a,, a long while, even after we were divorced, for me to get to that. Yeah. good answer. I think, I think that’s probably a common answer because as women, I think we feel like we maybe could try this, maybe we could try this, Yeah. and, and maybe there’s nothing else and I, yeah, and I think, not to interrupt you, I’m sorry. , That’s why we go to couples counseling, and I don’t have anything against couples counseling. But I think that what happens is we go, and then we talk about problems that have happened, and you’re talking about the problem, but the problem actually isn’t the issue. It’s the reasons that you got to the problem. So if everybody would just go their own way and figure out their own crap, you, y- you wouldn’t have to, like, rehash a situation for two months, you know? Like, I, I could have rehashed so many different situations, and we never, ever, ever… It’s clear we never could have come to a conclusion ’cause it was our own crap we were bringing in. I, I was responding to stuff because of me and who I was, and he was responding s- to stuff because of him. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. It’s okay. It’s okay, Bessie. you’re great. You’re doing really good. I know. I don’t know. Okay, people assume the woman who teaches this work has it all figured out. Mm-hmm. ending are you still making sense of? Oh, I think one of the biggest things, and I think if people follow me for a long time, I think they understand that I often will even say, people, like, “I’m on this path with you. I don’t think we ever have it all figured out.” And I think one of the biggest mistakes I could ever make as a leader or as a coach would be to make people feel like I had it all figured out. ‘Cause I never want anybody to, um, need me forever. Like I always say to my clients, “I want you to want me forever, but I don’t want you to need me. I want you to have your own tools and your own ways of thinking so I, I’ll never have it all figured out, and I think there’s always things to uncover. One of the things that I think I do really well is I will sit and think about stuff, and I won’t… Or I, I say I won’t. It’s not that I never, but I try. I do, not avoid hard thoughts. I make room for hard thoughts. And so as I come up against things I haven’t had, don’t have figured out, there’s always new things to uncover and I will figure them out. If that makes sense. So I know I’m not necessarily answering the question, but it’s just, like I don’t have the, to let, make a list of all the things I don’t have figured out. It’s everything. You know? Like there’s so much, ’cause I am not one that, that pushes the idea that I do. I think that’s– I mean, because we’re always evolving and, and changing and figuring stuff out as we Yeah. And you question, but… yeah, and you know sometimes when I get really overwhelmed, uh, with work, and then I’ll say like, “I’m just gonna go sit,” and you’re always like, you’re good at “What the…” Yeah, and you’re like, “What the hell? What the heck?” I’m like, “I’m just gonna go sit and just be quiet for 15 minutes and see what happens.” normal.” Yeah. “Let me do 800 things that Yeah, you always tell me. Yeah, I love it. Okay, so this is about your birthday. Oh, okay. um, okay. So you’re about to turn 55. Mm-hmm. that you thought you would have figured out by now that you haven’t, have you made peace with that? I think I thought I would- grow up and have, like, a family and, like, the father of the bride house and the white picket fence and a husband that adored me. I’ve never ever, ever, I’ve never ever had anybody in my life that adored me. I think I thought I would, have, uh probably more kids than just one. I think, you know what I mean? I think there was, I, I think there’s so much of my life that isn’t what I thought it was gonna be and I think it’s because what I thought it was gonna be was created before my mom died and when she died it, like, scrambled eggs, you know what I mean? And, and I really like where I ended up right now, you know? So I think it’s not… Martin adores you. Dean Martin does adore me but only See? wants to. He’s ve- he’s al- he’s taught me more about consent. Like, consent is, is a, a subject that comes up sometimes in the Navigate group, right? Like with your husband, like, you know, if he wants sex and I don’t want sex and how, can I say no and all of those things. I swear to God I learned more about consent from my freaking cat. Like, it makes sense. , You have to ask permission to grab at somebody. So yeah. Okay. Um, let’s see. Oh, I love this question. I love this question. , What is a pattern that you see in almost every woman who comes to you that she swears does not apply to her? . I know what it is and I’m just trying to formulate it. Um, I think, well, I think first of all every woman thinks that their husband’s behavior is their fault. Like if they could do something different then things could be different and I think that they take a lot of ownership of his behavior instead of letting him own it and that becomes really heavy. And you think that Yeah, I think- that at the time? Yeah. Yeah. I think they don’t realize it and then I think as we move through the program then they start to recognize it but I don’t think it’s just like if you’re listening and you’re like, “Oh yeah,” I think that’s not a thing you can just hear and go, “Oh okay.” I think you have to, like, internalize it and I think going through the program helps you, like, viscerally understand that and I think that’s like the shift, a big shift that happens for people Mm-hmm. Because, yeah, maintaining somebody else’s life is impossible. Okay, this is another question that pertains to the work you do in Navigate. , So you’ve been clear that you don’t push women towards staying or leaving Mm-hmm. the Navigate program. Um, has that ever cost you a client that you’d wish you’d been more direct with? Like where I wish they had left or I wish they had stayed? I know, I know personally, I can tell you that as a, a former Navigate person, hearing some of the stories, sometimes, you know, part of you, the girlfriend side of you wants to be like, you gotta get out of there.” Yeah. you, you’re very good about not, , Yeah. that on anyone and letting them arrive at those decisions themselves. So I guess, that is the question. — Has it ever cost you a client that you’ve y- you would– were more direct with? yeah. I, I’m gonna say no, and the reason that I’m gonna say no is because it’s not that I think, “Oh, they should leave,” but I left, and then I went back, and then I had to leave again a couple years later, which we can talk about that. But, like, that process was so important for me that I need people to have their own process because that’s the only way we trust ourselves. And part of this program is, is getting women to a place where they know themselves so deeply, and if I’m putting any pressure on any of that, then that whole foundation crumbles. Mm-hmm. is there part of me that’s like, “Give me his phone number”? Yeah, and sometimes I’ll say that. Do you know what I mean? Like, ’cause there is the girlfriend side of you that’s like, “Girl. Oh my God.” But, but also, , the overarching goal and purpose, and I… , and again, I’m gonna go back to, like, when I said I was so grateful for my former husband this last relationship because I feel like this is my purpose. This is why I’m here on this planet, and I never, ever, ever could have got here if I hadn’t had that relationship. Oh my God, I’m so grateful for that relationship. But that’s how come I know not to push anybody anywhere. Mm-hmm. Yeah. good answer. this is kind of a piggyback question,, what is a piece of your own advice that you’ve struggled to take? A piece of my own advice I struggle to take I, I’m gonna say this.  I don’t typically give advice unless I’ve lived it. I think that one of the things that anyone that’s worked with me would say is that I will say, I’ll even say, like, “Hey, I’m open to being wrong. You decide what feels right to you.” And even in my personal relationships, I’ll say, “I’m open to being wrong,” ’cause I’m open to learning. I’m really open to learning and seeing things in a different way. I love when I can see things in a different way., I think in my… If I were to say, is there something that, advice I should take, it’s just that I can’t control everything. Like, I, uh,, you know, we all have that desire to want to have some sense of control of the world and the universe, and you just can’t. You can’t make people do what you wanna, want them to do. You can only invite. You know, the you can’t lead a horse to water. It’s the same with me, I guess.  Like, I can know the things, and there’s gonna be days where I’m, I bypass myself just because I’m human. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Good. Okay, let’s see. Hmm. Okay. You live alone. What does a hard night actually look like for you, and what do you do? A hard night. So, Is there any hard nights alone? yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, I know, right? There’s been some debate on Instagram on any of my posts where I say I’m not lonely. I don’t get lonely. I get bored. I don’t get lonely. And so now I’m gonna say something, and I’m open to being wrong if this w- people were to label this as lonely. But one of the things that I found is that I had limited friendships when I was married, and those friendships- Sort of disintegrated, and I had to create all new friendships. And I think I had hard nights in the beginning in that that was really confusing to me. Nothing happened. I, I still w- I wouldn’t be shocked if somebody reached out to me and said, “Oh my God, I haven’t talked to you in so long. You wanna go get a coffee?” ‘Cause nothing happened, but there was just a shift, and I think there was an energetic shift to me, and that felt confusing because I… Nothing had happened. So, so there were nights, especially in the beginning, I think, where it was more like confusing of like, “How do I make friends? Like, what did I do? Why w- at this, , vulnerable moment did the people that were in my life disappear?” And I think there’s, again, it had nothing to do with me. And so, um, I think the hard nights were just that like, “How do I rebuild my life?” And kind of figuring that out. That makes And then the… And there’s ice cream for nights like that. But I think most of the time, like, I have pretty good nights. , I have my routines, you know? I, I work, and then I make dinner, and then I sit on the couch, and I like to watch YouTube videos. I, I have YouTube, like the subscription, so I don’t have commercials. And I love going down the rabbit hole of documentaries, and I watch all a bunch of stuff about the Gilded Age, and I’m into, like, uh, uh, you know, how they run stuff. Like, I watched this documentary the other day on how they run the Atlanta airport. It’s so fascinating. How they run cruise ships., So I, I’m into stuff, and I’m interested and curious. And then when I get tired, I get in bed, and you know, people have heard me talk about my evening routine with the bed. But like, I get in my BedJet heated up bed and crick it away while I read or watch TV. , .. and I have a lot of friends that I message with. , We use Voxer, and you and I use Voxer. But , we message about stuff all the time. Like, you’re having a glass of wine and you’re like say- You know, like, there’s a lot of interaction that I have with people now that’s friends that live all over., It does take up time and, and space in a good way.. And that is the part that’s like I’m never really lonely, ’cause I have all these structures around me that if I w- want somebody, I could just reach out. But I think in the beginning it was that, like, reorienting and how do I recreate my life. Mm-hmm. Well, I think every woman too that, , is watching will, feel like, you know, when they’re alone or their husband’s out of town, it’s almost like a Yeah, really. Yeah. cool. Yeah, yeah. I got a message from a friend the other day, um, and she reached out to me a couple months ago, and I hadn’t heard from her, like, in years. And I was talking to her, she lives in New York, and I was talking to her a lot on Voxer when we met, and,, she’s a business owner, too, and you know what I mean, we commiserated on all that stuff. Uh, and it was when I was living with my husband. We were married at the time. And anyway, the other day we were messaging and she said, “You know, Betsy, you need to go back and listen to your voice in the messages that you would leave me back in like 2023, 2024,” early 2024. She’s like, “You sound like a completely different person, like it doesn’t even sound like you.” And I was like, “Really? That’s so weird.” And she was like, “Yeah, like you’re… The joy, you’re way more excited, like you sound alive.” And she kept saying, “Go back and listen. Go back and listen.” So I scrolled back and I saw, like the last time we had messaged, like 2023, I think it was, October, and I couldn’t listen. I just was like, “I don’t wanna revisit her.” Like I, I looked at the message for a long time. I could see it, you know? And I just couldn’t hit play. I was like, “I’m just gonna let her rest,” you know? Yeah. It was interesting. Yeah, that’s interesting and, and profound really. It’s Yeah, yeah. like you’ve moved on from that person all the way. Yeah, yeah. And I just didn’t wanna like… It felt like digging up a grave, you know? It felt like, like a, I don’t know, like a betrayal. Like just let her be. So yeah, it was kinda interesting. Okay, this, this one may be a long answer, so Oh. ready? Need opposed to the other ones where I feel like I’ve talked. Okay. Okay. Okay, so, um- Tell us the moment that you realized it was time to leave in your marriage, your Yeah. Um, I think that in my marriage, I was very depleted, and I think I tried really hard. When I look back, and I don’t recognize this as much now, but I remember at the time, and even maybe like a year after I lived in my own apartment, if someone said, “Describe your marriage, give me one word-” It would have been frustrating and, like, frustrating. Like, it was very frustrating. It probably was for him, too. So again, I’m just gonna reiterate that this isn’t anything… This isn’t about him. This is about me. It was very frustrating, and I think that I had a moment when I… I’m gonna say something very strange, I think., I hired somebody to hypnotize me because some of the feedback that I would get online felt really crushing in a weird way, and people would comment on my clothes or my big glasses or whatever, but it felt very deeply injured me. And I was like, “What is that?” Now, if I had been in, , an incredible relationship where I felt, , supported and loved, like, maybe it wouldn’t have, but it did. And it got to the point where I remember one day I was laying on the floor in my home office, and I was like, “I don’t know if I can keep doing this.” Now, I started the Navigate method when I was still married, so that’s something we can talk about. But I, I was laying on the floor, and I was like, “I don’t know if I can do this anymore.” Like, this feels like such important work to me, but I… And was given to me, which we can talk about that. And so, “But I don’t know if I can do it.” And so a friend of mine was like, “You need to hire this guy, Joseph Cloth.” He and I were in a coaching group together, and she was like, “You should hire Joseph.” And I was like, “Oh yeah, I should.” So I reached out. It, it wasn’t cheap. I mean, it was thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars to be hypnotized so that I could get rid of feeling awful when people commented. But we had to get to, like, the root cause, and the root cause was I am bad. Now, if somebody said to me, like, “What do you think is the root cause of your…” I would never, ever, ever had said I am bad. So he had me do this whole exercise. It took me, like, two weeks of, like, crying all night. Like, like I really sat with it. Like, what is this? And I… And, and I think because I’m a coach, I could get to, like, this deep, deep, deep root. And go back to the first story I told you. When, after my mom died and my dad started dating somebody, and when they got married, I would tell him, “This isn’t… This doesn’t feel right. Like, the things that are being said to me feel terrible. I… This isn’t good.” And he would say, “You’re misunderstanding. It- you’re wrong.” You’re misinterpreting that and, you know, stop trying to mess up my life. And I think I internalized that to, like, don’t trust yourself. You can’t rely on your own feelings. They’re not right. And, you know, uh, y- y- you’re bad. And so w- he hypnotized me, and I came out of that hypnosis with clarity, like, “Oh, I’m not bad.” And I… That means that I deserve good things and good people around me that love me. And, uh, and I, and, and it shifted. I n- I, I don’t g- give a rat’s ass about what anybody says online in the weirdest way. In fact, I love it. I’m like, “Well, that making you feel something, and that’s good.” You know? Um, but I think that was a big part in my shift of, like, what is it that I deserve? And that’s something that we work on in the Navigate method. Like, what is it that I deserve? Is it true that this is what I deserve? You know? And, and I’m gonna keep saying this just because I feel like it’s so important, my former husband deserved different than he had with me. It wasn’t the right match. Do y- do you know what I mean? And so, um, when I got that, I think that was a huge piece of my clarity. But again, it’s layers. You know what I mean? Like, you gotta, like, do the work and look at the stuff and, like, unpack it all. That’s good. Yeah. I have not yet been hypnotized. That’s why I wore my non-black glasses today because can’t handle the negativity. I think it’s funny. And then it’s funny ’cause people will be like, “I hate your glasses. I love your glasses.” And then sometimes they’re like, “Why do you dress in such big clothes?” That’s a big one I get. “Why are you dressed in such baggy clothes? You’re so little. Why are you in such big clothes?” I’m like, “‘Cause I don’t want you looking at my body.” how people feel like they can say whatever they wanna say. It’s so terrible. Like, It’s funny ’cause they, I don’t think they’d say it in real life, you know? But- they probably don’t. It’s all Yeah a screen and on a keyboard. Keyboard it, it makes it way more obvious if somebody loves my glasses and says, “Where’d you get those?” And somebody hates them, then it’s not the glasses. It’s the person that’s viewing the glasses. so true. Yes. So I just go, “Oh, whatever. I ain’t bad.” I actually was like, “Let me do these today,” because Yeah. no one will say, “Why sh- why are they both wearing black glasses?” Wait. Hey, I know. Freaking damn big g- black glasses, yeah. That one’s funny okay. Um, okay, so… Oh, okay, so you’ve… This is kind of an all-encompassing. So you’ve built a business, a podcast, a method, a book deal. Yeah. is the thing that you’re quietly most proud of that no one knows about? Um, so I will say, let’s see. And the book, let’s just comment on the book ’cause someone will be like, “She has a book?” Years ago, years and years ago, I wrote a book, but this isn’t the book that we’re talking about now. So we’re in the process of writing a book. I have an agent, and we’re writing a book., And we’ll know more about that around Christmastime, but it’ll be out next year. , So what is the thing that I’m most proud of that nobody knows about? Mm-hmm. I think my ability to be open to new ideas. I got divorced from my second husband, ’cause I’m very chic. Just a reminder, I’m very chic and I’m not afraid of change. , But I got divorced, you know, from my son’s dad, and we remained really good friends. And years and years later, I asked Oliver, I said, “Have you ever heard me say anything bad about Dad?” And he said, “No. Why would you?” And that made me so proud, because he was like, “Why would you say anything bad?” ‘Cause he had never, ever heard me say anything bad. And you know what? I love his dad. I love his dad. His dad is part of him, and I’m really proud of the relationship that we have. Is it perfect? No. Do I wish parts of it were different, especially over the past few years? Yeah, absolutely. But we have really been good partners and good co-parents in the best way that we could, and I think that’s because, uh, of him as well as because I am open and not afraid of being wrong. And when I say wrong, like, I’m not afraid of, of being like, “Okay, maybe that wasn’t right. Maybe I didn’t handle that right. Maybe I c- … I’m open to hearing other people’s experience of me and taking that into account and apologizing where I need to.” So I’ve always been really proud of that. When Oliver was little, we did holidays together with his wife, and then I’ve I mean, his kids have been to my house. Like, we’ve maintained a, a f- really friendly relationship, which I’m always been really grateful for. That’s awesome. Yeah. It’s awesome for Oliver. Yes. uh, something that’s just, uh, you Yeah stress away from the child of any Yeah. whether married or, or, you know, going through a divorce or a separation, just to take that away, that stress away from the, child in that Yeah. is awesome, so… we still have every Friday, every Friday at 3:00 we have a family meeting. Now Oliver is 24, but he’s got some challenges. And so every Friday we meet and talk with him, see how his week has been, where he struggled, where we can support him. And so, you know, that’s always been like a team effort. So I think that that’s like just an important piece of my whole journey, you know? Awesome. Okay, let’s see where we’re at. , Oh, this is probably my favorite question. It’s one of the– my favorite. So I have a,, I have a question that has nothing to do with Navigate Okay. Okay. Okay. that you wish someone would ask that they never ask? , What is something I could go… I should’ve… I, you mentioned this, this question to me earlier and I thought, “Oh, how would I answer that?” And I still don’t know. I wish they would ask that they never ask. it and come back to it? Well, you know, one thing I’ll say is I think, and this goes back to one of the earlier questions, is that I think lots of times people think, and I’m not gonna be answering the question exactly, but a roundabout way. I think lots of times people think, “Well, Betsy’s fine,” because I present as fine. And I think just I’m a human like anybody else, and I think there have been challenges. I know when I moved into my apartment, I had a lot of challenges in my nervous system when I moved and lived alone, not because I didn’t like being alone, but because I was so used to scanning to manage other people’s emotions, that the lack of knowing if I was, I’m gonna use air quotes, “in trouble”. But again, remember like I had this thing from when I was young, it had nothing to do with my husband. So, uh, is that I, I, I didn’t know if I was in trouble ’cause I wasn’t around anybody. And so I… So I think the thing that I wish, not necessarily people would ask me, but I think that people could recognize, was that everything that I share is truly because I have done the work. Like, I have walked through it. Like, I have thought about it deeply, and I think that if, you know, if somebody were to ask me something, I think it would just be like something totally different from anything that we talk about. Do you know what I mean? , Like what do you, why do you love the ocean so much? I, I’m gonna cry. Like, why do you love the ocean so much? Like, I think … Well, that’s weird. That’s gonna make me cry, Joy. We’ll, we’ll cut that out. Um think you should cut it out. By the way, I’m I mean, your audience already knows you’re looking to move to the Yeah. proud of you for making that decision and doing that. It’s so brave of you. And, Yeah. um, you clearly, you clearly love it so much that it’s emotional for you. So I’m Yeah. for you to do that. And I think that, like, for a long time the ocean was, like … When I thought about the beach, and if people have listened to the podcast forever,, That– I, I don’t think I’ve ever seen you tear up, so I, I think Yeah. something you shouldn’t cut out because it’s real Yeah. Yeah. I, I’m so happy for you because, um, like you said the other day, you know, we were talking with, um, a group of women that, that were s- that was saying like, “Uh, just wish I could get on the other side of this. Like, I wish I could take out all of the middle ground, the hard stuff.” Yeah. you said something so profound, which was, you know, that’s going to be the stuff that makes you that next person. That– Going through that is going to yield, you know, the, the person that you’re growing to be. So sometimes you just have to go through those hard things first. It’s like getting forged, you know? It’s like pottery, is like you mold it and then you stick it in the fire, and it’s the fire that makes it so beautiful. And so yeah, I think that trying to cut out the middle or t- not trying to go through the hard stuff, I think, like you don’t have to know what it’s gonna be like to get… Like, how long is it gonna be? How bad is it gonna be? You don’t have to know. All you have to know is today. All you have to know is, like, this moment. Can I handle this moment? Okay, I’m good. I’m good. What about this moment? Okay, I’m good. Like, I think we get so far ahead of ourselves, but it’s such important work to, like, move through. And, you know, I could go into the whole woo-woo, which I love to do, , i- which is like y- you know, you were meant to come here and go through this. You were meant to, like, have this experience. And, you know, I have a belief that… And other people can believe differently, but I think,, if I hadn’t gone through this, like, thing where I, I believe leaving my former husband this last time, becoming the person that I needed to become, and then leaving, was my life’s journey. I know that sounds so weird, but, like, that was a huge part of my life’s journey, and I think, I think, I would have come back in some other reincarnation and had to do it again. And now I get to, like, graduate from it ’cause I freaking went through it, you know? And I was… And we always say in the program, with bravery and integrity. Like, how do we move forward things with bravery and integrity? And I feel like I was able to do that. Did I do everything perfect? No, but I tried really hard to be in integrity with, with… And clear, you know, in, in what I wanted. Yeah. this question. What’s Okay. favorite movie? Okay, so my favorite movie ever, when you first w- asked me this question, like when you mentioned it yesterday, I think, um, I al- I loved Elizabethtown years ago. I have ADHD. it. Yeah, it’s really good. But, but I have, like, ADHD, so, like, I don’t remem- if you told me to tell you what Elizabethtown was about, I wouldn’t be able to tell you. I, I’ll leave a m- a movie and I’ll be like, “That was so good.” And then outside the theater someone could be like, “Tell me about it,” and I’ll be like, “I don’t know, but I was entertained.” You know? So, uh, so but I will say my favorite movie ever, and I could tell you all about it, is Everything Everywhere All at Once. And when I… I’ve seen this movie like three different times. Every time I’ve seen it I wanted so badly to talk to somebody about it, like, in depth. Like, everybody in my life, I was like, “You know, you need to see that movie. Can we talk about it?” But it is a movie about the, like, the unis- universe, like collective consciousness, basically. And you get to see every piece of your life all at once as if you had made every decision differently than you did, and you, in the end, still recognize that this life matters, that this, where you ended up, was exactly right. Even with all the other metaverses in the world that could’ve happened, where you are is exactly right. And there’s also a greater story about a mother and a daughter, and it’s about her having, the mother having to see the daughter in every other universe to see all the sides of her before she could really love her in this one. And I just think it’s so profound. It’s such a good, it’s such a good movie. And, like, it’s the kind of movie you watch it once and you’re like, “What the fuck just happened to me?” And then you gotta watch it again and, like, every time I’m on a airplane I’m like, “Oh, let me see if they have it on there.” It’s so good. You know what else was a really good movie? And I’ve watched it twice, and the second time it didn’t hit the same time as the first time. But it was called, um, Nine Days, I think it was called. And it was about these souls that are auditioning to get to have a life, and they want it so bad. Oh. Oh, wow. and it’s, it makes you go, “Oh my God, I’m so lucky to be here.” Like, I’m, this is so fucking cool that I get to be here. And hard stuff. They want hard stuff. Like, they don’t just want fun, great stuff. Like, they want the hard stuff, too. Like, it is the range of emotion that is, like, the biggest gift that we have, and I think we- Try and stay so far away from anything that feels, like, uncomfortable or bad, but it’s part of the gift, ’cause when you do that, then, m- you know, like I cry thinking about going to the beach. Like, I can’t even say it because I g- had the fucking bad, and now I get to have the good, and I can’t even stand it, I’m so excited. It’s happy tears. But I think we move away from hard, and, and I see this in the program too, and I get it. Of like, I don’t wanna go through this, it’s gonna be hard. And I say like, “Let it be. What’s gonna happen on the other end?” Like, what if it ends up great? Like, I have this sign in my bathroom, and it’s in my bathroom only because, um, I see it every day, but sometimes on the internet people are like, “Why is that in your bathroom?” But it says, um, what if it’s great? What if it’s great? Like, we are really good at catastrophizing, being like, “This is terrible. My kids are gonna suffer.” Like, well, what if it’s great? What if your kids get to see you do something totally different? What if they get to see a whole new side of you? What if they get to experience you in real love or their dad having real lo- like, what if it’s great? I just, I, like, let’s spend as much time there, you know? Yep. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. So I just realized by your movies that I, um, may need to try some different movies out, ’cause I was thinking about Steel Magnolias, Parenthood, and yeah. Yeah, totally. You need to watch Everything Everywhere All at Once. Yeah. think, well, I’ve r- Is that a book? ‘Cause I think I might have read the book. Oh, I know. yeah. But it’s a movie, like Jamie Lee Curtis is in it, and it’s really good. Yeah, watch that for I sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, we’re, we’re getting to the bottom of these questions. You’ve done a great job. Uh, let’s Okay. I have one. Um, so are you open to dating? Oh, no. Why? I know, that was so fast, wasn’t it? Okay, so let’s tell the story about, like, the… Okay, so I wanna say this. I feel whole and complete, and I would w- and I, I’m gonna make sure I’m not telling myself a lie. I feel whole and complete. I don’t feel like I’m missing anybody. The idea of having somebody and finally having someone in my life that actually likes me, like, I don’t feel like I don’t, I don’t feel like I have been in relationships in the past where people even liked me. So, the idea of having somebody like me, that actually would feel really good to have somebody like me. , I think I have had to fight my own ageism and really look at that from my own perspective. When I look outside of myself, I see women in their 50s and 60s that are beautiful, and I think absolutely they deserve love. And then when I look at myself, I immediately go, “She’s too old. I’m too old. Nobody’s gonna wanna date me at 55.” Like, I’m, I have gray hair. I… Do you know what I mean? Like, I do the, a little of that. So with that said, it would have to be a… I am s- I have such a filter now. , I s- smell, like, red flags. , It would have to really be someone that’s really spectacular. If you ever hear, if anybody listening ever hears of me dating, just know that they are, like, the freaking bomb. And I have joked that I would only date somebody if they had a yacht, which was very safe here in Atlanta ’cause nobody has a yacht. But now I’m going to the beach, so I feel like my v- my v- Venn diagram of overlap could be different. So with that said, I think that, yeah, I think it would have to be somebody great. There was one day that Joy and I were talking and w- I was like, “We’re gonna… I’m gonna get on a dating app.” And I had applied for, um, Raya, which is like which is, , for celebrities basically. But I was like, “I have enough followers. I think I could get into Raya.” But I didn’t. I- they put me on a wait list. And so then I was like, “Well, it could be my age. It could also be my content.” Do you know what I mean? Like, my content is gonna fil- filter out a, a lot of guys that wouldn’t be the right match, and so I feel grateful for that. So what did I get on? , I don’t– Was it? Hinge. It I got on Hinge. Oh, okay. Yeah. I lasted 24 hours, Mm-hmm. I asked for my money back and got it. It was a I got… 24 It was a whirlwind 24 hours. I was just disgusted by every freaking question. I, the… Men tried to introduce intimacy so quickly, and I am, like, I have a super filter for that. , Oh my God, was that funny or what? oh my God. hours, but it was s- I mean, I, I’m, I don’t mean to say it was funny, but It was funny, yeah. Betsy called me, she’s like, “I’m out, I’m off of it.” Yeah. joined it.” It was like, I joined it that night, and I was like, I think I had a glass of wine, and I was like, “I’m gonna do it.” And then by the next morning, I was like, “Screw this.” And somebody asked me out, and I said yes, and I liked that they were decisive. They were like, “Meet me here.” And then when I said, “I can’t do that on a Friday at lunch. , I run a company. Like, I don’t know what you think I’m doing.” And they wanted me to drive 40 minutes to meet them for lunch at like a cafeteria. And, and, and they were like, “I don’t know. The app says it’s 20.” And so I was like, “Oh, are you calling me a freaking liar? Are you try-,” like, I… And I got in the shower, and I was angry because some man was telling me what to do or telling me who I was, and I was like, “Oh, I’m not… This isn’t for me., I’m just not there yet.” And I, I don’t, I don’t know that there’s more evolving that I have to do, but I definitely think I need to, um, I wanna say like relax a little bit, but also, no. , I sensed that as like a… There was a rhetorical pattern there, right? Of like, “You don’t know what you’re saying. I know the truth, and you can- you’re gonna do what I say,” even though he didn’t say it in that way. That’s the… , and he gave this emoji of the what? I don’t know. You know, like, huh? my God, wow. And so I just was like, “I’m not doing that. I’m not… I am not ever playing that out with somebody else,” of like, “You know better than me.” I know m- the most about my life than anybody else. Like, I know me, and, and I know that’s too far for me to drive because I do important things too, buddy. But I was so… I, I mean, you can even hear it in my voice now. , I just… So no, I’m not dating ’cause I don’t want to. like a quick answer, a quick Yeah. tell you that’s probably the right answer. I was on a podcast recently, an, an interview. It’s not live yet. But she asked me like what d- what’s dating like, and I was like, I, I, I was almost confused by the question ’cause I was like, well, I… And I was like, I, I, I don’t know. I, yeah, I j- I was like, “I don’t know.” Like, I don’t know. I don’t know. Ask somebody else, not me. I have an a- amazing life, and to fit somebody else into that life… And you know, I’m moving to the beach, and I’m going down next weekend to look for my apartment, and I decided I’m gonna rent for a little while till I figure it out. The people who have come out of the woodwork to be kind to me, to… And, and actually, when people are listening to this, I’m probably on a airplane. So have come out of the woodwork to be kind to me, to offer to bring me out. You know, my birthday, I’m gonna be there on my birthday. There’s people bringing me out on my birthday that I don’t know, that know me from the internet, you know? Um, it- that ha- offered to help me find pla- that videotaped, like- These, this is one place you’d might really like at the beach. And, , took so much time to help me. I- it was a lesson in, like, you deserve to have people be kind to you. It’s okay to let people help you. , It was a moment, you know, where I was like, “Okay, this is a lesson in, , let people love you,” you know? And so maybe I’ll get there, and this is, like, the first piece, you know? That’s awesome. I’m excited for you. And, too. you I’m excited for you to come down and visit. least expect it. I’m talking about if there’s Yeah. a, you know, Yeah. partner in your future, it will yeah. least And like, it, I think. yeah. And like I’m, I’m g- I think I, I am a great partner. Like, I think I’m a really good partner, so I just gotta find the really good partner to partner with that. , I’m not afraid to have hard conversations. I listen. I’m a- available for new ideas. I like to try new things., I will do the things you’re into, but, like, I need the reciprocal, you know? So I will wait until I find that. Also, the yacht. Awesome. Yes. Got that. Well, we’ve gone through, um, a lot of these. Yeah. And we’ve been talking for an hour, which we could talk for two hours. It’s fine. But, I know. yeah. Are we done with all the questions? There’s one more, , it’s if the podcast ended tomorrow and you never coached another woman, would you feel like you did what you came here to do? Oh, you know what’s so weird is even when you said that, I was like, “No.” Like, I, like this is such, like, my purpose. I don’t know that I’ll ever not do it. Do you know, like, sometimes I think about retiring. My sister just retired, and I’m like, “I can’t imagine not doing this.” , It’s just so much of how I think and who I am. , Okay, so wait, what’s the question? If I ever don’t do it, then If, is. To do? I came here to do. Yeah. Years ago, I had this mentor when I lived out in the suburbs, and I had this mentor in my life who, you know, would give all these examples of things he had done or worked with people on or… You know, when we were working together, he would say, like, “I had this client once who…” And I remember saying to him, like, “You’ve, uh, I can’t imagine, like, having such a big impact on everybody. , you’ve had such a big impact.” And he said, “Yeah, if I died tomorrow, I know I would have given more than I took, and that feels good to me.” I, I think that only recently, like maybe in the last year, have I started to recognize Mostly because women on the internet are so incredibly kind to me. But only recently have I started to realize how much of an impact even just the podcast has made, or those videos that I do on Instagram. A- and I wanna mention something about that. But those videos, I think, , people are so kind to tell me how much that impacted them and changed their life, and changed how they thought about themselves. And so I think I could safely say that I’ve given more than I’ve taken, and, and I don’t know that it needs to be that way. I don’t need to give more than I get. That, I’m open to that being more of both. D- does that make sense? , Mm-hmm. like, I, I am open to receiving, and I think maybe for a long time I wasn’t. We talked about this in the group the other day of like, how open are you to receive, and to receive help, and to receive? And I think that I was closed for a long time ’cause I had to be so hyper independent. But anyway, so I would say yes, I, I think I’ve done what I came here to do, and I wanna keep doing it ’cause I think there’s more. Yeah. That’s a great ending. I think you are a phenomenal asset to women. I think that watching and working with you and watching you do what you do Yeah. it’s amazing. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I’m grateful to do it, and I’m grateful that you were able to help me today with all these questions. Yeah, we Thanks, Joy. Our first it. official podcast. May th- may there be more. Thanks so much, Joy. You’re welcome. Have a great day. Thanks for joining me on The Art of Living Big. I hope today’s episode sparked something within you, maybe pushed you to dream a little bit bigger and live a little larger. Don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this podcast with someone you know who might need a little inspiration today. You can find me over on Instagram at Betsy Pake and on my YouTube channel. Remember, the world is vast. Your potential is endless, and your life, it’s yours to shape. Until next time, keep reaching, keep exploring, and keep living big.

369: An essential prenatal nutrient that is not only good for expecting mothers, but nursing mama's, as well as those who want to have kids in the next 5 years....and, this nutrient is even beneficial for kids as young as 1 year old! I'm talking about C:15 from the only and only Fatty15. This is an essential fatty acid discovered by Stephanie and Eric Venn-Watson was actually accidental, as they were working with the navy! Now emerging evidence is coming out weekly with new studies to showcase the benefits of C:15 and why humans need it, where we originally got it from, and why so many of us are lacking it in today's society. If you're on GLP-1's, pregnant, have young kids, caring for the elderly, or just trying to manage your own health issues, this episode is for you!  Topics Discussed: → Why we are deficient in this nutrient → Why fish oil supplements are rancid and how they hide it → Where we can get this nutrient in food → Common side effects of this deficiency  → Testimonies → What the research says  → Why you need this is you are on GLP-1 → Who is this safe for?  → Benefits of C:15 As always, if you have any questions for the show please email us at digestthispod@gmail.com. And if you like this show, please share it, rate it, review it and subscribe to it on your favorite podcast app.  Sponsored By:  →  Fatty15 | For 15% off the starter kit go to https://fatty15.com/digest → Our Place | Go to https://fromourplace.com/ and use code DIGEST for 10% → Kasandrinos | Go to https://www.kasandrinos.com/digest and use code DIGEST for 25% offTimestamps: → 00:00:00 - Introduction → 00:04:02 - Stephanie Venn-Watson Returns + Rapid Fire Questions → 00:06:25 - What Fatty15 & C15 Actually Are → 00:09:40 - Why C15 Disappeared From Our Diets → 00:14:39 - C15, Pregnancy & Prenatal Health → 00:20:35 - What Benefits People Notice Taking Fatty15 → 00:26:55 - Fish Oil Supplements & Rancidity → 00:32:30 - Fatty15 vs Omega-3 Supplements → 00:34:38 - What Is Cellular Fragility Syndrome? → 00:39:09 - C15 for Kids, Infant Formula & Aging → 00:42:53 - GLP-1 Medications & Nutrient Deficiencies → 00:45:24 - The Future of C15 Research & Longevity → 00:47:34 - Autism Research & Brain Health Discussion → 00:51:18 - How the Navy Accidentally Discovered C15 → 00:53:06 - Where To Find The Research & Studies Further Listening: →Top FAKE “Healthy” Foods on the Market | BOK Check Out Stephanie Venn-Waton: →  Fatty15 | For 15% off the starter kit go to https://fatty15.com/digest → Studies → The Longevity Nutrient  → Instagram Check Out Bethany: → Bethany's Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠@lilsipper⁠⁠⁠ → ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠ → ⁠⁠⁠Bethany's Website⁠⁠⁠ → ⁠⁠⁠Discounts & My Favorite Products⁠⁠⁠ → ⁠⁠⁠My Digestive Support Protein Powder⁠⁠⁠ → ⁠⁠⁠Gut Reset Book ⁠⁠⁠ → ⁠⁠⁠Get my Newsletters⁠⁠⁠ (Friday Finds) Produced by Drake Peterson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson, DVM, MPH, is a veterinary epidemiologist, author of The Longevity Nutrient, and the world's leading expert on C15:0—the first essential fatty acid discovered in over 90 years. Formerly with the WHO and U.S. Navy, she holds 70+ patents, has 80+ peer-reviewed publications, and is Co-Founder/CEO of Seraphina Therapeutics. Her work has been featured on NPR, CBS, BBC, and National Geographic. A 2025 CNBC Changemaker, she has received the HHS Secretary's Award for Innovations in Disease Prevention and Boehringer Ingelheim's Innovation Award, advancing groundbreaking science to help people age healthier. Today on the show we discuss: the real science behind healthy aging and what actually impacts your biological age, why sitting, chronic stress and poor sleep may be accelerating aging faster than you realize, the surprising connection between loneliness, community and long-term health, how movement, relationships and daily habits shape quality of life as you get older, the controversy around longevity supplements and the science behind C15 fatty acids, and why healthy aging is about living better longer not just living longer and much more. Get 15% off your first order of fatty15: https://fatty15.com/DOUG ⚠ WELLNESS DISCLAIMER ⚠ Please be advised; the topics related to health and mental health in my content are for informational, discussion, and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your health or mental health professional or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding your current condition. Never disregard professional advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard from your favorite creator, on social media, or shared within content you've consumed. If you are in crisis or you think you may have an emergency, call your doctor or 911 immediately. If you do not have a health professional who is able to assist you, use these resources to find help: Emergency Medical Services—911 If the situation is potentially life-threatening, get immediate emergency assistance by calling 911, available 24 hours a day. National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, 1-800-273-TALK (8255) or https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org. SAMHSA addiction and mental health treatment Referral Helpline, 1-877-SAMHSA7 (1-877-726-4727) and https://www.samhsa.gov Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Gollum was peculiarly fitted to survive in Moria, though at cost of great misery; Matt is also able to survive his time on the PPP with the same cost. Join The Man of the West and The Nerd of the Rings as we get a closer look at Saruman's unenviable position in our third episode of four on The Hunt for the Ring from Unfinished Tales. Gollum doesn't know how to open a door, Saruman discovers there ain't no easy way out, and the Nazgûl make a new friend on the road north. We conclude that Númenor messed up Middle-earth timezones but agree they're still smart enough not to bother with Daylight Saving Time, agree with Bret Devereaux's conclusion that “Saruman is a dummy-wummy whose plans fail because they are bad”, and observe that we might be the only two people in the Venn diagram of sports fans and Tolkien fans. Also: Matt gets the munchies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Master the Microsoft co-sell evolution today. Subscribe to our Newsletter:https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this deep-dive panel discussion, industry experts Erin Figer, Erika Irby, and Reis Barrie celebrate the 10-year anniversary of the Microsoft Co-Sell program by dissecting its evolution from its 2016 inception to today's data-driven, outcome-focused landscape. The group explores the critical shift from transactional sales to modern, frictionless co-sell motions, emphasizing the importance of signals, intentionality, and building credibility with Microsoft field teams. Whether you are navigating the complexities of the marketplace, struggling with reseller enablement, or looking to integrate AI into your sales process, this conversation offers actionable insights to align your organization's go-to-market strategy with Microsoft's evolving priorities and achieve results. https://youtu.be/KV1MGSoyWbQ Key Takeaways Effective co-selling has shifted from autonomous, fragmented motions to a highly collaborative, data-driven approach essential for modern cloud GTM strategies. Credibility is the currency of partnership; without trust from vendors and customers, technical go-to-market motions will fail to produce long-term outcomes. The “REO” (Reseller Enablement Offering) model is an operational unlock for ISVs to go global and sell local without the friction of multi-party private offers. Integrating AI into CRM systems is vital for identifying total addressable market (TAM) signals and maintaining sales velocity. “Don’t automate a bad process” remains the cardinal rule; technology should be used to refine existing, successful motions, not to propagate inefficient ones. The human element—community, in-person events, and empathy—is a necessary differentiator in an increasingly digital, automated B2B landscape. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags Microsoft Azure, Co-sell evolution, Hyperscaler strategy, SMB partner investment, Cloud Marketplace, Veeam GTM, Partner Center alignment, Channel enablement, REO, Cloud consumption, ISV scaling, Go-to-market optimization, Partner-led growth, Azure consumption, Channel friction reduction, Outcome-driven sales, Microsoft ecosystem, Revenue acceleration, Partner alignment. Transcript Erin Figer Panel For Cut Out [00:00:00] Vince Menzione: So when we, so, uh, this all started ’cause I was trying to figure out what was next when I left Microsoft and I had this woman who was doing work, actually starting the co-selling process when we first started doing co-selling. And she was working with one of our partners and she was working with my team when I was at Microsoft. [00:00:17] And then I said, this lady knows a lot about this stuff. So I reached out, I left Microsoft, I said, I think we can help each other. Like, I think we’re gonna, I got these companies that I spoke at Microsoft’s conference. They’re like, can you come help us out? And we teamed up. And, uh, we’ve been friends and doing fun stuff ever since. [00:00:34] And she’s spoken at just about every event in some capacity or another, whether it was on stage or a workshop. Aaron Feiger. And then, uh, I, I found, I also, through Aaron, I met this other gentleman who had another company and he was doing amazing work with ISVs or SDCs, uh, Reese Barry from Carve. And then, uh, when I think we started up the event, I mean, Erica Irby came to one of our first events and spoke on stage. [00:00:58] I was like, yeah, this. The person knows what she’s doing. So I’ve asked the three of them to come up and kind of round out and end the day, but all three of ’em have a tremendous, uh, background in this whole process of co-selling go to market strategies. And I thought you, you can, I’m just giving it over to the three of you. [00:01:17] Erin Figer: I we don’t need [00:01:18] Vince Menzione: a, you don’t needer you don’t need a clicker and you, you know what you’re all gonna be talking about. But these are some really smart people about how to partner with Microsoft. So, yeah. No, thank you for having us. [00:01:27] Erin Figer: Um, hello. Hello. I think this is on. All right. So actually we’re gonna do an exercise. [00:01:32] Um, I want everyone to close their eyes. Close your eyes. Close your eyes. All right. I want you to think back to January of 2016. What were you doing? Where were you in your career? What company were you working for? What was going on in your Microsoft partnership in January of 2016? Okay, Erica, what was happening for you? [00:01:59] Erika Irby: So, uh, is this on? Sorry, I cannot tell. Um, I was at Veeam for the first time. We had just launched our first, uh, endpoint backup, uh, product in April of the previous year because nobody knew what cloud was yet, and people were scared. So we had to launch that product. And we had a relationship with Microsoft in a sense that about 20% of our business sat on Hyper V. [00:02:25] That equated to about, I think like around 90 ish million dollars, which at the time was incredible for us. But to Microsoft was, you know, like, who are you guys again? And, um, we begged and begged to have any type of communication with them. Events. Funding nothing. We did not know what Azure consumption was. [00:02:43] We didn’t have any of that information. And if somebody would’ve told me at that time that nine years later we would sign a five year contract with them and have multiple products dedicated to Microsoft, I would’ve been like, y’all are bananas. [00:02:58] Erin Figer: Reese, what were you doing in January of 2016? [00:03:00] Reis Barrie: Uh, let’s see, Jan, 2016, I was moving from Orlando, Florida to Seattle, Washington, uh, sight unseen with no place to stay. [00:03:10] Uh, to take a job at a place called Microsoft or Consulting Gig, a place called Microsoft. Um, kicking off some of the cool motions that we’re, uh, we’re gonna talk about today, I think. [00:03:20] Erin Figer: Does anybody know the significance of January, 2016 in the audience? Any takers? It was the launch of Cosell officially for Microsoft. [00:03:31] Congratulations. We’re celebrating 10 years of officially. Problematizing how you connect with the Microsoft sales organization in a programmatic at scale way. And try to build meaningful relationships. And I have been helping partners since the inception of Microsoft’s Cosell program. Um, I was on the partner side, Reese was on the inside. [00:03:59] You were at a partner. So we have all seen the evolution of Cosell across all three hyperscalers launching, you know, their co-sell initiatives. So I just wanted to take a moment to recognize. I didn’t know how many people realized that it’s been 10 years, it’s 10 year anniversary. I think it’s a big milestone. [00:04:15] Huge. So. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we, you know, when they launched it, I went, I was consulting for a startup outta Boston and we were trying to get Microsoft’s attention, competitor to fame, and I went to the business development guy and said, uh, do you, did you just see this program that Microsoft launched? I think we should include this in our branding strategy and we should use co-sell as a way to get our brand out to Microsoft and be able to tell our story of who we are and what we’re doing and that we’re in their accounts and they don’t even know it. [00:04:55] ’cause we’re the startup out of Boston who switched over from AWS to Microsoft. And we did, and I put every single opportunity in the system I could for the first six months, which was the last six months of their fiscal year. We go to partner of the, we go to, what was it called? Them WPCI think at the time. [00:05:13] Mm-hmm. Uh, in Vegas. And Nasuni won wins like all four wards worldwide. US Education, healthcare Partner of the year because I put 117 deals in the system and then it seeded Na Sunni’s Marketing for the next two years. ’cause Microsoft gave them tons of money and attention and we were off to the races. [00:05:35] Right. And then it was, can you repeat that? And we went and repeated it with Red Hat and Rubrik and Nintex and Quest and. I don’t know, lots more. But it was, it’s been fun journey co-selling. And it’s interesting to see now, um, how we continue 10 years later to evolve co-sell. And so Erica, what were some of the takeaways you had today listening to the conversation about how co-sell, how you’re modernizing and co-sell is changing inside your organization, especially now being a boomerang. [00:06:08] Erika Irby: Yeah, well we call it a Veeam ring ’cause everything a veer ring, everything has to start with with Veeam. Well, one thing I was gonna comment on, I think I’m sitting here thinking how wild is it that back in the day we actually had to define that co-sell was an action that, that, you know, partners and vendors needed to take or, and different vendors and alliances. [00:06:25] I mean, now we can’t even imagine going to market without, you know, that, that attach. But at the time, we were just very autonomous and everybody sold their own product and it, it took like this actual motion, um, to get us working together. But now look at us. I mean, this community is incredible. And we can also see this by, and even when AGU was mentioning earlier, all the bosses he had in his room, I mean. [00:06:47] How many people like know each other. I mean, this is like part of that, that ecosystem. But today, um, a couple of things I took away, and by the way, we want a lot of interactions, so we’re going to kind of throw it back out at you guys. But for me, um, outcomes came up repeatedly that was mentioned multiple times about outcomes. [00:07:04] Um, speed with intentionality. I think that was super critical. We have to go to market. There has to be a sense of urgency, but if we’re not intentional, it’s like, what are we doing? It’s just like a big mess. Um, and then credibility. And this is something I think is super important, regardless of, um, all of our emotions, all of our go to market, all of the, the things that we do, if we are not credible or not building trust with our vendors, our, our co-partners, our customers, we will never be successful. [00:07:35] Um, so those are the three main things that I took away from, from everybody talking today. And I, I thought, I mean, to me personally, I thought those were pretty powerful. [00:07:42] Yeah. [00:07:42] Erika Irby: So we’d love to hear. [00:07:43] Erin Figer: Yeah. And I know Reese, you have been doing a lot around outcomes and changing kind of the cosal, um, intention. [00:07:54] Reis Barrie: Yeah. The, uh, the, just thinking back to today, like that was like such a, it was really a, a big key theme of today. Like everyone talked about, whether it’s pivot of, of sales, partnership, um, even when you’re talking about AI and some of the, the, uh. POC discussions. So the live like type of stuff, everything was centered around that narrative. [00:08:17] And so, um, and it’s the same with, it’s the same with partnerships. It’s the same with your co-sell motion, same with your benefits utilization, um, and the way you’re utilizing partnerships. And so that’s, that’s a huge, huge component of, um, what I also took away from today. Um, and then somebody, I think it was Mark who said it that I’m gonna, I’m gonna steal this because the, the whole, um. [00:08:40] Near and dear to my heart of like, don’t, don’t scale automate ai, A-I-F-I-A bad process. Like as someone who deals with like, for the most part, bad processes, like day in and day out, um, and trying to refine them and improve them. Like, that’s one of the first things that we, uh, that we talk to partners about when it comes to their partnership and, and the processes they have in place. [00:09:03] So those are like two really big, just takeaways from [00:09:06] Erin Figer: Yeah. Nice. So we’re here to learn from each other, right? Like this is an ultimate partner community of learning from each other. So I’d really love to hear from the audience, like what are some of the things you’re doing in your cloud? Go to market approach and co-selling that you’re trying out. [00:09:23] Either you tried it, you failed fast, you learned from that, that you can share those lessons learned or like what’s working and how are you changing to be more outcome driven in your cloud go to market, uh, approach. Any takers in wanting to experience share? Great. Give that man a mic. [00:09:50] Audience Member: The SMB investments. Um, these, these new, I don’t know what they are. I partner accelerators, PBAs, uh, there’s kind of something going on in the SMB space where it just seems like they’re coming outta the woodwork to come help. On deals. I’ve never seen Microsoft really embrace the customer that they, the way they have in SMB in the cos sells. [00:10:10] I’m not sure if anybody else is seen that, but seems to be working. It’s two things. One, you at Data 60 [00:10:22] America. [00:10:54] I think, I think part of the rarity there is that. Typically you wouldn’t get a seller attached, right? They’re unmanaged that they’re kind of in the nobody cares category, but, [00:11:06] um. So Microsoft made a huge investment in the distribution space saying we’re gonna lean on distribution to help enable our 165,000 indirect resellers that we have as a business. And part of that enablement goes back to field sales alignment. So there’s these roles, ca roles called um, partner Solutions Sellers, PS. [00:11:30] And so they’re aligned by, um, solutions architecture, if you will, for Microsoft. So, or cloud solution area, whatever the new term, modern work, uh, or, uh, AI work, AI workforce, um, data and ai. And so they are there to help support your deal. So it’s, it’s a huge investment and one that I would just can say continue to advocate for it if you’re seeing success with it, because I mean, we’re heading into FY 27 planning for Microsoft. [00:11:58] So. Like there, there could be role changes. So I would say if it, if it’s helpful, like make sure you’re talking positively about it. [00:12:05] Reis Barrie: Yeah, yeah. Just to, to your point, like I, I’d say like, um, in the last six to 12 months, like that’s been a, a thing that’s like we’ve to go back and like, I mean we manage a portfolio of a couple dozen, dozen partners at this point, and so we’ve had to go back and rewrite some of our playbooks, reeducate some of. [00:12:26] Uh, some of the partnership folks that we use because, um, historically you kind of get into this like void of, you’re in partner center, you’re picking, you know, account alignment and it’s not managed. And so it’s like, okay, I expect to do nothing with this deal on the Microsoft side from a co-sell standpoint. [00:12:42] Um, but that’s kind of, that’s changed quite a bit, um, in the last six months where, um, it’s not like a, it’s hard to create, it’s hard to create processes and dependence around it ’cause it’s not like a guarantee that you’ll get, you get engagement, but. Uh, you see more eng engagement, more on more and more deals. [00:12:58] Um, and so we’ve had to go back and work with some of our partners to rewrite some of our, uh, deal sharing playbooks to account for, uh, things like that, which is, it’s super cool to see, frankly, um, to see engagement on these, like predominantly. [00:13:12] Erin Figer: So in that motion. So first off, for the folks that are on the other side of this black curtain by the food station, if you guys could please stop the conversation. [00:13:19] It’s really hard to pay attention to what’s going on in this room. Um. Thank you. Thank [00:13:25] Erika Irby: you for saying that. [00:13:26] Erin Figer: That was a great, that was a great, that’s a great point. And what I wanna talk about next is like in order to kind of continue to evolve the playbooks and they’re changing and people are changing, and priorities are changing, what are some of the signals that you guys are using internally in your organization, whether you’re building or buying, um, but would love to learn from all of you. [00:13:46] What kind of signals are you looking at to help you continue to like co-innovate, co-sell, co-market? Um, in your go-to market strategies? [00:13:58] Audience Member: Yeah, [00:13:58] Erin Figer: please. Um, [00:14:00] Audience Member: well, I’m, I’m, we’re building everything from scratch right now because we’re brand is integration. [00:14:39] Like having our, our engineer be able to interact with product [00:14:43] Erin Figer: engineer. [00:14:50] I’m gonna pick on trend ’cause I had just spent last week with them and Sanjay, I think like what you guys are building internally, um, using signals, building it into an AI agent. To help you understand your tam, you wanna share a little bit. [00:15:06] Audience Member: Happy to, and I’ll disclose. The first thing I did was hire Aaron Feiger to run my co-sell operations, uh, for the, for the second time. [00:15:12] It’s [00:15:13] Erin Figer: nice to be a GDI again [00:15:14] Audience Member: for the second, so well planted. Um, but honestly, like I can’t have an environment where I fail my sellers, like this process has to be frictionless in co-sell and marketplace operations. Or I lose trust in my own house, let alone in my channel and in my customer base. So. Uh, building that strong foundation is like job number one. [00:15:34] I’ve been, I spent a decade at Trend. I’m back, uh, five weeks on the job now. Um, but I’d say we’ve built a multi hundred million dollar cloud marketplace business thinking highly transactional. And what we’re trying to pivot to is a highly dated driven approach where we can look at any cloud in any region around the world, figure out roughly how many accounts they have. [00:15:57] Figure out what those customers are spending and things that we can protect from a cybersecurity standpoint, knowing that four or 5% of that total spend will be spent on cybersecurity, doing an overlap of where I have existing customers in that drawing a tam, overlapping that with my incumbent partners to get the Venn diagram of like, where’s my sweet spot to move this forward? [00:16:18] And then where’s my blast radius? So when I sit down with a guy leading France, or a person leading healthcare. I can have a really specific opportunity about how to leverage my cloud partnerships to accelerate deals and expand growth in a very surgical, data-driven, propensity driven way. And it like totally changes the conversation. [00:16:40] And the other thing we’ve done because you get a lot of pushback and when you’re working with Microsoft, uh, I was chatting with a few folks today, like if you’re in cybersecurity, it’s not easy. They got a 25 billion ish dollars cybersecurity business. So you gotta find your swim lanes. And the dialogue I have now internally with my sellers is a major League baseball analogy, which is, if you play major league baseball and if you hit the ball 30% of the time, you’re gonna go to this little thing called the Hall of Fame, right? [00:17:07] If you bat 300, if you’re in sales and Microsoft, or Amazon or whoever helps you, 30% of the time, you’re gonna go to this thing called President’s Club. That’s the difference between sitting at home in Ohio and sitting with your beach. You know, your, your toes in the sand. So it’s, we’re really trying to change. [00:17:25] Uh, one of the first things I ask my team is, what’s our brand promise to our sales leaders and our sales team? And if you don’t know that answer, you got a fricking problem. So you gotta get that. What’s your Brene Brown would call it? What’s your North Star? What are your values? Whatcha are you gonna deliver? [00:17:38] Right? So you gotta get that right and then you gotta be relentless in making it frictionless. And then you gotta hire Aaron Fier to run your co-sell. [00:17:46] Erin Figer: Okay? Okay. And so, I mean, I think like that’s a trend that I’m seeing across the partners that I’ve been working with is how they’re using data and doing more data driven, um, decision making and getting to their TAM faster so that as they start to then look at this pathway of, okay, now I’m trying to go to market, what. [00:18:11] Programs does Microsoft have or my other partners have that I can use to move me down that path faster. But getting that tam and feeling more confident about it, like, this is the group, this is the subgroup that I’m gonna start with until I see something that says, oh, I need to deviate and do something different. [00:18:30] Um, so I’m definitely seeing that trend. Like what are you seeing, uh, what are you guys doing at Vem? [00:18:35] Erika Irby: Um, so a couple different things. So like you were saying, we, we do leverage, um, AI more, uh, recently for New Deal Reg, um, automation. And we lit, literally just launched it this week. So this is the week that it’s exciting until the, someone tries to use it for the first time and then for. [00:18:52] Um, so I can’t wait to see my emails later, but, um, it, it’s, we’re seeing like that, that that movement, which is, uh, definitely good for that. We have a task force internally for marketing, so trying to figure out how we’re gonna, um, you know, leverage that, uh, um, internally. And I think that Veeam, you know, they, they have been on the forefront of technology for, for a while. [00:19:12] You know, they were the first with the. Virtual backup and, you know, all these things, you know, really trying to be ahead of the thing, ahead of the game. But, um, one thing I, I, I love how many people brought up the intentionality and the mindfulness because I think sometimes we can easily. Put out a whole bunch of tools. [00:19:28] I love that you called out the point about the bad processes, um, because it actually, I think, can just create more confusion, more of a mess, and that, um, really mindfulness will be so much more beneficial, you know, down the road for your partners, for your customers, for everybody that has to, you know, do that interaction business with you. [00:19:47] I did wanna call out that I thought it was lovely that you had a positive comment about Microsoft. I dunno if I, [00:19:53] Audience Member: yeah, [00:19:53] Erika Irby: I like rarely hear that. So like, awesome. I hope that does get back to Microsoft. I hope that they do, um, continue that. I’m sure their SMB is quite a bit bigger than maybe others, but that is a massive install base for, for Veeam as well. [00:20:07] And even though we’re driving and trying to push into the enterprise, protecting that install base is just absolutely critical for success. [00:20:15] Erin Figer: What about you race? [00:20:17] Reis Barrie: So if I’m looking at like signals, I, I think. Uh, I’ll focus on too, I think you mentioned, uh, the, the cycles of change at Microsoft. Like it used to be an annual thing and now it’s like a, then it was a half base thing, and then it was a, now it’s a quarterly thing basically. [00:20:30] Um, but there’s also like, there’s, there’s big signals and small signals, and so annually we still get like that, like the, the, the guiding direction so that we can align. How we talk about ourselves, how we talk about our partnership, how, how we enable our sellers and whatnot. And then we got a lot of programmatic shifts from a, from a quarter to quarter standpoint. [00:20:50] Um, and so focusing on the, like these, um, these signals so we can align our, our messaging and our frameworks to align with, with, with our partnership, um, is, is one thing that’s, you know, super, super important to keep, keep tabs on. Um, and the second one, I’ll, I’ll give, you’ll. Mention is more on the cus sorry, uh, customer side, but like the seller enablement. [00:21:15] And so how is your, on the marketplace side, how, how are your sellers talking to your customers about marketplace? Um, are they, are they bringing up earlier in the, in the qualifying discussions of how does the customer prefer to buy? Um, are there fire drills with two weeks to go, um, till the, till the deal closes and now the customer wants to go marketplace and, and no one knows how to do it? [00:21:37] Um, seen that way too many times. Um, and so, but how, how, like studying kind of the, uh, maturity of our sales org to see well, like where, where, where is our, our, where are our sellers competent to have this marketplace discussion? Um, because I often relate, like, this is kinda a silly analogy, but I, I, simple stuff works really, really well with me. [00:22:00] But I like, have you ever been to a farmer’s market and you’re like nervous to buy something? ’cause you don’t know if they take credit card. [00:22:07] Audience Member: Yeah. [00:22:07] Reis Barrie: And so like to me, I’m like, okay, well, like it’s the same thing with Marketplace to me. And so like, it’s, it’s the same concept of you want your customer to be able to buy, they want the way that they would like to buy. [00:22:19] Um, and you want the person that they’re interacting with to be able to, um, facilitate that, that transaction in, in a way that feels frictionless. Yeah. Right. Uh, and so that’s a lot. Like, those are the kind of, the really two deep signals, um, that we, we look at a lot. [00:22:37] Erika Irby: I wanna make a comment on the marketplace. [00:22:38] So I don’t know if anybody else is experiencing this, you know, Veeam being an ISV, we have a really strong traditional, traditional channel motion. So, to your point about how sellers are, are managing the marketplace, to be totally honest, we struggle on, um, that, because right now it feels like a deal that goes to the marketplace is taken away from a reseller, and that reseller loses out then on that upfront margin and. [00:23:06] Um, there’s not a clean path necessarily for, you know, just because the, the deal happened there. They really, they still need to maintain that because they’re the one pri providing the services. And somebody had brought up earlier that, um, A SMB customer will never be successful without a partner. And I, I totally agree with that, but it’s like that part is missing. [00:23:26] So we almost need like a mindset change. In the channel where the marketplace is just a route to market and how the customer receives the product. It shouldn’t totally matter because at the end of the day, the, they still have to provide the services. It’s like, I could go to Home Depot and purchase a bunch of pipe for my house, but can I install it a thousand percent? [00:23:49] No. I would destroy my house. I used to have to have a plumber. So I think there’s, we could help our channel by changing that mindset, and at the same time, we, we need the marketplace owners to, to provide the benefits so that it is still very attractive for those traditional. Partners to, to push their customers there or else I, I think we’re just gonna constantly have that strife. [00:24:11] Erin Figer: Yeah. Does anyone in the audience, has anyone in the audience activated REO with Microsoft? You have? Yeah. So how’s it, like, how’s it going? Yeah, there’s Bump. Yeah. [00:24:32] Audience Member: How that shifts making people more effective in their roles individually. So we’re early stage of it, but it’s, it’s been a good experience. [00:24:42] Erin Figer: Has it helped to kind of unlock some of that friction with the resellers and continuing to include them to get to the s and b customers? [00:24:49] Audience Member: Yeah, I think the, the challenge that we’re working through right now is, you know, Erica may have said it, but it’s. [00:24:56] It’s not just the, the view of the marketplace taking people out of the equation, it’s how do we use the marketplace for, for co-innovation to keep people in it. So if, if, if it’s gonna take three to five of, of us in this room to deliver that spectrum to innovation for the customer. Um, how do we use the marketplace as a force multiplier of bringing that together and making that transaction easy? [00:25:21] Yeah. If, if our consumers are more and more influenced by Instagram and TikTok Shop Now buttons, like my husband’s texting me about my stuff that showed up today, [00:25:31] Erika Irby: which is none of his business. [00:25:32] Audience Member: None of your business. That’s right. Just put it [00:25:36] Erika Irby: in my room. Thank you. [00:25:37] Audience Member: If people are, people as consumers in the, in the u, us consumer based economy is driving more and more people through like that social experience of purchasing, that is an area where I do think Microsoft could help us and we could help ourselves in marketing how that, how we leverage it to be a force multiplier versus another omnichannel. [00:25:58] Well, [00:25:58] Erin Figer: so on that note, how many of you have put a button on your website? Click to buy? Yeah, [00:26:02] Audience Member: that’s, that’s where I’m at with our marketing team. [00:26:04] Erin Figer: Right? [00:26:04] Audience Member: Yeah. That’s, I think, the next evolution for us in the, in the REO piece. [00:26:08] Erin Figer: Yeah. Yeah. [00:26:10] Audience Member: I, I don’t want it on our website. I want to, I want it on my Instagram, my LinkedIn, my TikTok reels. [00:26:15] That’s, we’re going to, sir, it’s coming next week at our sales kickoff. Yeah. [00:26:21] Erin Figer: Nice, nice. Anybody else? Uh, activated. REO [00:26:28] besides the, you know, RE speed wagon? Uh, it’s the Microsoft Reseller Enablement. Um, offering, so like you activate your resellers to just take your listing and be able to do a private offer so that you don’t have to do multi-party private offers anymore. Your resellers can just take the listing and sell it directly, and they don’t have to wait for you to send them the offer. [00:26:52] Then they have to go do, so it takes out some of the steps and that friction in the process streamlines it and it allows them to like. Add on and do their own pricing. And then the reseller, however you have your arrangement with that reseller, continues to pay you in the back end for, um, selling that through the marketplace. [00:27:11] Erika Irby: I think I’m going to have you come and do a webinar for our Veeam partners to, to help them with that, because to your point, I don’t, I don’t think it’s as prevalent yet. It’s, it hasn’t really caught on. [00:27:21] Erin Figer: Yeah. It’s been really an unlock of, I had a large, um, ISV that I helped. We implemented REO internally, so they have 34 marketplace offerings and they have this initiative. [00:27:36] They wanted to go global, sell local, and so they launched five more publishing accounts and they came to me and said, we need to replicate our catalog five times 34. And I was like, oh God, please, no. And luckily like two months later, Microsoft, like GAed, uh, REO, and I was like, here’s your answer. We’re not going to do that. [00:27:58] We’re going to enable each of your publishing accounts to be resellers of your quote unquote gold standard publishing account, and that we actually implemented REO as an internal mechanism for them to issue their own publishing accounts, to resell private offers in local currencies. Um, and that was really an operational unlock for them. [00:28:25] All right. Anybody you wanna ask a question to the audience? [00:28:29] Audience Member: Okay. I’ll just keep going. [00:28:32] Erin Figer: Um, all right. So what are some other, um, signals or ways that you guys are evolving the way you’re co-selling? Um, does anybody else have some experience shares that they want to, to share with the audience? We’ve got, we’re using data, uh, we’re using some ai, we’re helping us get to our audience faster. [00:28:51] I really loved work span, um, building in an AI tool inside your CRM system, um, so that you can get some of those signals. Any other signals that you guys are using, uh, to change the way you’re co-selling? [00:29:07] It’s quiet on [00:29:07] Reis Barrie: Maybe, maybe I’ll share one, but Yeah. Yeah. So, um, just when it comes to, like, for us, account alignment to me is like one of the most important things and consistently doing, uh, you know, account planning and account alignment against Microsoft their accounts. Um, now it’s a bit interesting ’cause you can include some s and b stuff in there. [00:29:27] Um, but also, uh, Jason you mentioned up there, the. Uh, marketplace rewards, having the propensity mapping. And so looking at not only from an account alignment, um, what Microsoft accounts are, we, um, you know, areas are we most penetrated in, but also of those accounts, which ones are already buying on marketplace. [00:29:47] Uh, maybe have a commitment to Microsoft in, in some way to help us just further, uh, further target and focus on, you know, if we have 500 opportunities that we’re trying to, um. I’m trying to work through, um, to Sanjay’s point, like what’s, what’s the 30% that I’m gonna get my batting average on? Um, and so that constant account alignment to us is like a, is a huge, huge signal, um, for us to focus on. [00:30:14] Um, and then you can even take it a layer deeper to identify, okay, well if I’m looking like, do I have density within Nina had the, the ou up here on the screen. So do I have densities with density within like specific. Uh, verticals or regions, um, or segments that I should maybe if I just focused on that one segment or one vertical, um, you know, then all of a sudden I, I’m super successful having an executive sponsorship in that, uh, in that ou, something like that. [00:30:44] Um, and, but that, that’s all starting with, um, the foundations of that being that consistent account alignment and leveraging some of the, some of the propensity stuff that Microsoft is, is providing. [00:30:56] Erin Figer: And then making sure you’re like bringing it back into your CRM and storing it so that you can continue to use that information ongoing. [00:31:03] And we’re trying to figure out how to embed more and more. [00:31:37] And are you integrating like. Microsoft and other partners into that data as well. It’s like, this is a great partner. Incorporate them at this point in the journey. Yeah, we um. [00:31:50] When [00:31:50] Audience Member: you’re in the process with, with Microsoft, we haven’t opened it up externally, so that’s our crawl, walk, run is we’re, we’re trying this out internally. Let’s see if we can work the bugs out, get the agents working, and then how do we now go to our MSP community and offer this up as an agent they can use within their sales team. [00:32:08] And on the end of. We’re still working in the middle, but front end profiling, it’s helping a ton, um, and giving us a lot of good intel that the sellers are driving through the agent on the back end. It’s, it’s giving us not, um, just propensity data, but what’s resonating. So if we launched 12 products this year and we trained sellers on. [00:32:28] What’s hitting, where’s my pipeline velocity coming from? Where’s my close rate coming from? So that every month when we have our sales town hall, it’s like, here’s the top three sales motions that are actually driving pipeline and fast to cash close rates. [00:32:42] Erin Figer: And I gotta imagine that helps you get to your differentiators. [00:32:45] Audience Member: Oh [00:32:45] Erin Figer: yeah. And refining your superpower story. [00:32:48] Audience Member: That’s right. That’s. Yeah, because it’s for, for our sales team. I mean, we were talking about it earlier, it’s all about simplification. There’s so many options, so much noise. It’s like, just go focus on these three things and this is where you’re gonna deliver impact and outcomes to your customer. [00:33:01] And if we’re doing that, we’re all winning. [00:33:03] Erika Irby: Yeah. I, I, um, just recently, this is why one of the coolest things that Veeam has done, we just launched this tool called, um, expansion iq, and it’s part of our command, the expand motion this year where we’re really. Upselling and cross-selling our, um, install base. [00:33:17] This tool takes all the partners individual propensity data, puts it against four solution plays that we think are the main plays, and then provides them, this is what you could be earning if you took this motion. And then from a marketing perspective, we provide them. And to do this, here’s your campaign. [00:33:37] Here’s your this, here’s your that. Step one, send this email. Like very, very, you know, just, uh, planned out. And I loved what Nina said earlier today when she shared that, um, org chart. Essentially with all the different, um, industry focuses we are driving. One of our go to market actions is a Microsoft healthcare campaign. [00:33:56] That is like very, very specific, but it’s helping our partners in that manner. Could they go to their own database and pull their own and do all this stuff? Of course. But for our sellers to go blink and then give them a report and be like, here it is. It makes it so much more relevant. And then the steps just, they just hand that to their marketing org and then they’re just off and running. [00:34:18] Going back into your team to say, Hey, we rolled out these 12 things, only three landing. You gotta go back to the drawing on the other side. Or We need more money for these three. Yeah, but let’s figure what’s not with customer [00:34:38] to record the. [00:34:47] Audience Member: A better, faster, uh, listening post for, uh, can I talk really loud? Um, it’s, it’s, it’s helped turning on a listening post for our engineering, our marketing, our service delivery organization that would’ve taken months or quarters to get spun up in an executive board meeting or something. Right now they get it real time every week. [00:35:09] Okay. [00:35:09] Erin Figer: So what I’m hearing, like the theme here is to really like. Understand your sales process. Also, your co-sell sales process that runs in parallel with that. And how do you continue to serve up the right data at the right time to help your people take the right next action to continue to drive those outcomes that you’re looking for, but then also using data to circle it back, to say what’s working, what’s not working, to continue to refine that whole motion. [00:35:43] Um, so if you’re not doing that, I think that’s a big aha moment and takeaway, uh, from today’s session or from here today is like, okay, am I really identifying all the opportunities in my process to involve data to help my people continue to drive outcomes? [00:36:04] Audience Member: You [00:36:04] Erin Figer: have a, [00:36:05] Audience Member: you have your head in up back there, Gary. [00:36:06] Yeah. I, I couldn’t tell if, uh, you were prompting me when you asked that question and I, I didn’t want to, you know, do a shameless plug for cloud, but I think everybody [00:36:15] Erin Figer: should shamelessly plug, plug away. [00:36:16] Audience Member: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you brought up a mitt and, uh, the co-sell thing, but it, it does relate to what Reese had said about, um, you know, the being at the farmer’s market and. [00:36:26] Not sure what, you know, can I use a credit card or not? And I think that, um, or [00:36:30] Erin Figer: can I use Apple Pay? I still ask. I’m like, do you, do you accept Apple Pay? [00:36:32] Audience Member: Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it’s like, I think, uh, a lot of times you don’t understand the seller in that situation is not sure how to handle that conversation. So, and there’s not a lot of information about their, about that. [00:36:44] Like how to, when it comes to a seller talking about marketplace and asking about the commit. Because the commit obviously is one of the main drivers, right? 900 billion out there. And committed spend across all the hyperscalers. So how to actually bring that up with a customer and what if they don’t know, right? [00:37:05] So there’s a whole process that, you know, they, they need to be taught this. But the first thing that’s also come up multiple times is activating them also means how to engage them. So an approach there of how to engage your salespeople is critical because if salespeople aren’t in it, they’re nothing’s happening. [00:37:23] You’re not gonna do well with marketplace. And on the co-sell part, it’s kinda the same thing. The typical thing, and I remember talking to Aldo Desal about this at another Ultimate Partner event, but uh, you bring your salespeople into a call, like you set up a call with, with Microsoft and the seller comes in unprepared. [00:37:42] Typically they’re not sure what to say and it’s a little bit intimidating. How, how, how do I, you know, what do you do in this situation? Like, so you start talking about product ’cause that’s what you know, and it’s the last thing you want to do. You, you want to understand what they care about, like em stage and, and, uh, what’s your consumption story and what kind of MRR impact you’re gonna have. [00:38:03] So it’s, these things are just unusual topics for the salespeople to be prepared, uh, to talk about. But it’s critical if your salespeople are gonna be enabled that they can do that. So I think from a co-selling standpoint, that’s just what I want to mention. And by the way, we offered a tool that does that. [00:38:20] Erin Figer: Nice. Awesome. Thank you. Uh, I mean, I don’t know about you. Reese Cloud Atlas. Every time we helped an ISV with their cosell motion, we would say, okay, we’re ready to go share cos sells and drive introductions. Have you done your sales enablement? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We’ve enabled the sellers we have, and then we launch like the first batch of cos sells and then they immediately come back. [00:38:43] Stop, stop, stop. Don’t share any more deals, like we’re causing too much confusion. Uh, we didn’t do our sales enablement. Wow. Grace, [00:38:52] Reis Barrie: I mean, sound [00:38:53] Erin Figer: familiar? [00:38:53] Reis Barrie: It sounds very familiar. It sounds too familiar. Uh, P-T-S-D-A little bit there, but the, uh, sorry, [00:38:58] Erika Irby: but that’s why you guys have jobs. [00:39:00] Reis Barrie: Yes. Go on. It’s, it’s, um, but this, you know, I, I always come back to the, the concept of like, if we showed up to a Microsoft co-sell call the way we do to a customer call, like, oh. [00:39:14] Erin Figer: It, [00:39:14] Reis Barrie: it would, it would be night and day difference of the value you’d get outta your Microsoft partnership and co-sell. That’s all. It’s [00:39:20] Erin Figer: Well, [00:39:20] Reis Barrie: but I think people [00:39:21] Erin Figer: forget Microsoft is your customer too. [00:39:23] Reis Barrie: Yeah. [00:39:23] Erin Figer: They’re your partner, but you have to sell to before you can sell with and through. So you first gotta like master the sell to. [00:39:30] Reis Barrie: Yeah, a hundred percent. So there, there’s there like, and then to your point, [00:39:34] Erin Figer: it’s still true. 10 years later, people, it’s still true. Back to the fundamentals, right? [00:39:39] Reis Barrie: Yeah. It’s, [00:39:40] Erin Figer: yes. Go for it. [00:39:44] Audience Member: The, um, Microsoft being customer, right? So, and I love what you said about sem uh, alignment. So we actually made it a point, um, in our co-sell process, we have a validation checkpoint with Microsoft. If we build a co-sell packages, um, we are an si We’re not primarily ISV, but I think that’s shifting as well gradually. [00:40:10] And ESI kind of becoming a little bit of ISV. Um, so why it’s important, I think like Ree said, like you come up, you show up to co-sell call and you just pitch your services or say, well, let’s do account planning with this and that. Right? But what if it doesn’t work in the field? So that validation became critical for us, and I can tell you that now we have success stories that are actually proven based on that multifaceted feedback, uh, as to it’s one thing to build it. [00:40:46] Yeah. But is it useful for seller, for Microsoft sellers actually in the field? Can they actually position it and help clients to be more successful? Because that’s the ultimate goal. So that validation became, uh, an important checkpoint for us, uh, to make those packages repeatable and successful for customers at the end of the day. [00:41:06] So when we talk about signals, you absolutely right. It’s not just customer signals like we use ZoomInfo, we use all this data points, et cetera, but it’s also signals from the field because while Microsoft is a huge organization, they’re also very dynamic. On very regular basis, a lot of things changed. So taking those signals into account, uh, has created that, what we call like, more of a holistic approach for us, uh, to make it more meaningful. [00:41:33] So [00:41:34] Erin Figer: I like it. And you made it sticky by making it like a required point in the sales process? Absolutely. That everyone stops. Take a moment. [00:41:41] Audience Member: Yeah. [00:41:41] Erin Figer: And make sure that we’re all on the same page. [00:41:43] Audience Member: Yeah. And I think for us as si it’s even more critical. Like I, I, I think there is a lot more to happen in marketplace as, as, as much as we talk about it, but being in si I, we still kind of figure it out, like how Mark marketplace actually becomes a place of transaction for a size. [00:42:01] Yeah. So that’s why, you know, we’re passionate about packages and it’s not just a matter of publishing it and say, oh, it’s co-sell ready? Then what? Yeah. Right. So yeah, so, so that’s why that, that checkpoint is very important for us. So [00:42:16] Erin Figer: definitely, definitely. I think you ladies over here in the corner had some, some hands up, Michelle and, and the other Michelle, Michelle Squared. [00:42:26] Audience Member: Thank you. Michelle Squared. I like it. Um, so. I’ve been a little quiet because I wanna just give my background. So I’m a global VP of channels and alliances and, um, I think it’s a bit of this, uh, the movement, right? So I love your farmer’s market analogy so much. I’m gonna steal that. Thank you. But the reason is because you don’t know unless you’re gonna meet your partners where you are or meet your customers where they are in that journey. [00:42:53] So the first time that they’re selling whatever their goods or wares are, and somebody says, do you take Apple Pay? That’s a clue. And then when you hear it over and over again, you realize there’s a correlation that there’s a need in the market. So in In my life, all roads read to Romes, right? Reseller and VARs, OEM, alliances, MSPs, MSPs, ISVs System integrators. [00:43:17] And as a partner leader, you wouldn’t necessarily think marketplace is first because you feel like you’re going around your partners. But am I meeting my partners where they are in their journey and choosing to procure the way they want to procure? And I think that’s the notion that I have a lot of learning from this team and everyone in this room to understand how do we in a company. [00:43:38] Prescribe the right solution to, to meet our partners in that journey. And I’ll use, kind of circling back to the MSP space, PAX eight, one of Microsoft’s largest partners created a marketplace dedicated to MSPs. And while I was the global Channel chief of SonicWall, a lot of partners said to me, I like you. [00:43:56] I like your products, I like your firewall, but unless you’re on the park, PAX eight Marketplace, I’m not gonna buy from you because they make my life frictionless. And easier to do business with. And I think that’s the motion that every vendor in this room needs to understand is, are we truly meeting our partners where they are? [00:44:14] PS I work for Carrero DDoS Solutions and come to talk to me about that. Thank you. [00:44:18] Erika Irby: Well, and a Guo owes you some money for that commercial right there. [00:44:30] Audience Member: From, we’re actually community first. Um, as an MSP, even though we’re national, like we really focus in on community local touch. Um. Like you said, um, um, Southern seldom me in a southern way. Like that’s what we focus on. I’m your [00:44:45] Erin Figer: huckleberry. [00:44:46] Audience Member: I love that. Exactly. Um, and we’re seeing a ton of success with actual in-person events now. [00:44:53] Like the majority of our business is come in, leads are coming from that right now. And even though, like I, I truly believe in digital first motions, we need to be on Instagram and have that self-serve motion as the next generation comes up in our. Buying and transitioning to their kids or whatever that looks like. [00:45:14] Like we have to remember that there’s also a trend of tactile in person people first coming with it. And so like we, I, I feel like there, there has to be that motion engaged and I would love to hear your thoughts around how are vendors thinking about engaging in that community driven approach, not just the platform itself. [00:45:37] Erika Irby: Yeah, I, I personally also, this is hilarious ’cause we’re like best friends, so we can talk about this later, but, um, from a Veeam perspective, Michelle, um, we are seeing a resurgence in like these thought leadership type of events. And I think there’s, this is, this is sort of related, but just to, this is kind of how I think about this. [00:45:57] Um, Barnes and Noble’s business has like gone through the roof lately, and they are, they’re actually like opening more stores, which is bananas because at one point they were like going outta business because nobody wanted to go and like, touch a book or talk to somebody. But that is changing, thank God. [00:46:11] Right? That is like changing and people are actually like becoming more social because they’re missing this. Um, my kids’ generation refers to places like Barnes and Nobles as the third place. Like this magical place that exists where you can talk to a real human that’s not on your phone. Like it’s, it’s amazing. [00:46:28] But anyways, we’re, I think we’re starting to see this in marketing. We used to like pump everything out digitally, but after a while people get that form and they’re like, I am not putting my dang information in this form. And then your ability to capture that lead completely dissipates. All it is, is, is now an impression, which is. [00:46:47] Fairly worthless. You can have millions of them and nothing happens. So we are definitely investing more into, um, uh, live events, but also with the live streaming because then people can, they’re still watching it live. They still have to register for it. They knew they couldn’t make it. So I think that there’s definitely that digital aspect that’s super helpful. [00:47:05] But a purely digital, you will never make that connection. [00:47:10] Erin Figer: Yeah, I mean, I think. Unfortunately, COVID made us, you know, all do things digitally. But now that we’re past that, getting back to that multifaceted approach, I think if we think about what’s going on in the B2C world, lots of communities within communities, there’s whole company’s getting created, like women are bringing women together to do craft circles. [00:47:37] And literally. Okay. But like I did that digitally. That was pretty awesome. I was like three years. That shameless plug. No, I, no. But like then now there’s like companies that are actually like renting space, bringing people together, like crafting and while they’re doing the activity, um, if anyone’s ever done therapy, a therapist will say. [00:48:01] You know, if you wanna get your kids talking, get them coloring, like distract them and they will start to open up. And so you distract people with an activity and they start to open up. And what they really are, thrive, like what they really need is in this digital world where we’re getting so much information, we still need. [00:48:22] The next layer of filter to help us vet out and validate and confirm like our thinking or like our suspicions on things like, am I in the right going down the right path? Is this the right direction? So there’s still a human element that needs to be involved in that buyer journey, and you’re seeing that with these little micro communities inside communities. [00:48:45] Um, and so I’ve. I mean, I love micro communities inside of bigger communities. I’ve started two of them, three of them. So I, it definitely, like, we need still that in person, uh, interaction and I love seeing it coming back in our space. [00:49:04] Erika Irby: I, I was just thinking about ear, the, the previous panel and the, the topic came up about who can assist partners as they transition from that direct to CSP motion. [00:49:15] And I mean, yes, it, I think Microsoft plays a role there, but I think it would behoove Microsoft to invest in these communities and they would enable that change. Yeah, [00:49:26] Erin Figer: yeah, yeah. There is a person inside of Microsoft who has that remit, but she’s like one person, one person trying to do that. I was like, wow. [00:49:36] Okay. Grace, what are you seeing amongst your partners and also your perspective with working with Microsoft? [00:49:42] Reis Barrie: Yeah, yeah. Um. There’s a really good, uh, the frontier study, the work like door work study that they did, um, which talks really heavily about just like in this, you know, post 20, you know, 2020 culture, how like the amount of busyness has just increased in an insane amount and how a, a really strong use case for AI is to buybacks from that time essentially, um, for us to, you know, return back to a, a normal state and I think social creatures, right? [00:50:10] And so, um, in this. I run a fully remote company, which is like a blessing and also like really interesting to try to create a really strong culture within people that are, you know, 13 times zones apart times. Um, and so it’s uh, it’s a really interesting thing and coming together and, um, into an in-person space or a place here or a place where you can actually talk to your customers, talk to, um. [00:50:39] Step away from that, like that busy day to day where like, I, I can’t even fit a 15 minute break in to grab lunch. You know, days like how much, supposed to find 15 minutes to just have a, a casual conversation and these types of events, which I’m sure Vince is cheering back there that we’re talking about this right now. [00:50:57] But the, uh, but these type of events, they let you decompress from that day and they let you kind of just have these really important conversations that, you know, bring us back to just being humans To me. [00:51:10] Erin Figer: And being human and co-selling with each other. And on that note, we’re 44 seconds over. Yeah, we’ll give it back to Vince, [00:51:18] Reis Barrie: but we were plugging Vince’s events, so I think we’re okay. [00:51:21] Vince Menzione: We One more question. We have one more question from, sorry. Oh yeah. [00:51:23] Reis Barrie: It’s [00:51:23] Audience Member: maybe more a, a shared just as we’re talking [00:51:25] Vince Menzione: by the clip, right. [00:51:27] Audience Member: And to compliment everything that you guys have been talking about around co-sell and. Getting ready in line with Microsoft to speak to the customer and speaking. So the signals that we’re going after are on the actual conversations that are happening in the conversation. [00:51:41] So aside from all the planning, which I agree on, we’re building agents to hear what’s going on on the calls with Microsoft, on the calls with customer, and grab those actual signals. Are we answering the questions in the right way? What types of questions are coming back to us that we weren’t able to answer. [00:51:58] Maybe we forgot some information that we planned on and thought about can we signal and provide that feedback to the user, the seller, or whatnot on the call. And so as we’re doing this, ’cause we’re in the communication space, so we have some self-interest here ’cause that’s sort of the future of our business. [00:52:12] But it’s a really interesting opportunity for us to grab these signals to improve how we’re selling with our customers, how our partners are selling with our customers, with Microsoft. It’s just an interesting way with everything that’s going on full circle, we’re trying to complete that sort of sales journey with AI and, and grab those signals and keep getting better all the time. [00:52:32] Erin Figer: Yeah, I love that. And I think it’s like the ongoing balance of people, process and technology and how do you continue to keep the human in the loop? It, as we continue to introduce and evolve AI and use of data in our companies is like continuing to be mindful about the human in the loop. Um, part of that journey. [00:52:54] So thank you all. [00:52:55] Vince Menzione: Very cool. Great conversation. [00:52:56] Erin Figer: Thanks for all the audience engagement. We appreciate it. [00:52:59] Vince Menzione: Co-selling the house, co-selling the house. [00:53:02] Audience Member: Thank you, Vince. [00:53:02] Vince Menzione: Thank you. And I remember that January, 2016. Yes.

Today's episode starts off with an enthusiastic push to adopt dogs, spotlighting Tonka, a sweet, cuddly miniature pit bull from the Colleton County Animal Shelter. Despite a cosmetic leg issue, he's healthy, great with other animals, and in need of a home. Laura makes a passionate case for adoption or fostering, even joking about personally arranging transport. It's a genuine reminder that there are a lot of great dogs out there that need homes so adopt a dog!The conversation then gets serious turning to David Matalon, who breaks down the uncomfortable reality of modern work: remote and distributed teams are here to stay, but most companies haven't actually solved how to secure them. The old model, locked-down corporate laptops or clunky VDI setups, doesn't match how people work today. Employees are constantly moving between personal devices, hotel Wi-Fi, and public networks, often handling sensitive data in ways that leave them far more exposed than they realize.BYOD sits right at the center of that tension. David's take is that companies have been avoiding the truth for years. You can't fully control the device anymore, and trying to do so either creates major security gaps or pushes employees to work around restrictions entirely. The shift he describes is toward securing the work itself, not the hardware, using approaches like isolated workspaces that separate professional and personal activity without killing usability. It also becomes critical in the age of AI, where the real risk is employees casually moving sensitive data into personal tools without oversight. Looking ahead, Matalon predicts a pretty clear shift: the idea of company-issued laptops as the default will fade, and BYOD will become the norm. The challenge for organizations isn't whether this happens, it's whether they can secure it in a way that actually aligns with how people work.David Matalon is a five-time founder and the CEO of Venn, where he focuses on helping organizations securely support distributed and remote workforces. With a background spanning virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI), endpoint security, and compliance, he has built and led multiple companies centered on delivering secure application access for modern work environments. At Venn, he introduced Blue Border™, a technology designed to create a secure, IT-controlled workspace on personal devices without sacrificing user experience or relying on traditional VDI. He holds an undergraduate degree from New York University Stern School of Business and a master's degree from Columbia University.

An Earth Day episode that skips the doom spiral and actually tells you what to do? Yes, please! From nervous system hacks that prevent burn-out, to a climate scientist throwing literal dance parties for solutions, this is the mindset shift you didn’t know you needed. Plus, practical tips to help convince people in your orbit to care about the planet, too.Related reading:Five Simple Shifts for Climate Communication in 2026: https://potentialenergycoalition.org/2026-climate-change-communicators-guide-five-key-shifts/ Later is Too Late: Global report: https://potentialenergycoalition.org/later-is-too-late-global-report/ Potential Energy Coalition That's Interesting newsletter:https://potentialenergycoalition.org/newsletter/ Talk like a human communication guide: https://potentialenergycoalition.org/talk-like-a-human-save-the-world/ Ayana Elizabeth Johnson’s book, dance parties and create your climate action Venn diagram: https://www.getitright.earth Project Drawdown – an independent nonprofit driving science-based climate action: https://drawdown.orgUrban Ocean Lab – a think tank for the future of coastal cities: https://urbanoceanlab.org Learn more about Kelly Corrigan: https://www.kellycorrigan.com Learn more from Gabby Bernstein: https://gabbybernstein.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this raw and honest episode, Inner Glow Coach Angie Hawkins joins the pod to share why changing your environment won't fix what's going on inside, and how to love yourself without chasing approval. After moving 4,000 miles to Hawaii and realizing her struggles followed her, Angie hit a rock bottom moment that led to an intentional overdose, and a life-changing wake-up call. She shares how she rebuilt from that place by setting healthy boundaries, questioning old beliefs, and finally choosing herself.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:Understand why life is like running in slippers.Why you cannot outrun your internal problems.How healing requires making a firm commitment.How to love yourself by creating your own life rulesHow to set and enforce healthy boundaries with others.Episode References/Links:Running in Slippers - https://www.runninginslippers.comRunning in Slippers Book - https://www.runninginslippers.com/shopFree 60-Minute Find Your Glow Session - https://www.runninginslippers.com/coachingAngie Hawkin's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/angiehawkins808Guest Bio:Angie Hawkins is an Inner Glow Coach who transforms high-achieving, spiritual women from chasing love and approval to radiating fierce confidence so they can finally feel happy, free, and loved for who they are. She works with women who've done therapy, read the books, tried the spiritual path, but still feel like something's missing. Through deep inner work and identity transformation, she helps them break the cycle of not feeling “enough,” so they can experience real love, confidence, and peace without having to change who they are. She is the author of Running in Slippers, a raw and vulnerable memoir about finding resilience after emotional rock bottom. Angie has moved from Chicago to Hawaii on her own, jumped out of a helicopter and into the ocean Navy SEAL-style, bungee jumped, skydived, and cliff jumped, yet is still terrified about allowing herself to be seen. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Angie Hawkins 0:00  I was released from the hospital, and I called a friend, I told her everything that happened, and I ended with, I can't believe I didn't die. And her response was, it's not your time. And it was so profound that it sent a cold chill through my body.Lesley Logan 0:16  I have chills right in this moment. Angie Hawkins 0:18  Yeah, and I in that moment, I was like, okay, I think I have a purpose. And I was determined to figure out what it was.Lesley Logan 0:28  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Lesley Logan 1:11  All right, Be It babe. When I met this woman, I knew I had to have her on because she she had, in her story you're gonna hear so much of you, and then you're going to hear her transformation, and it's what a lot of you are trying to be it till you see. I will say, in her journey, we do have, we do discuss a suicide attempt. If that is something that's going to activate you today, please honor yourself. It isn't, doesn't go into detail, but it's, it's a part of her journey. And I do think it is worthy to hear the whole journey of how she got to where she is, how she becomes the inner glow coach that she is, and also like how you can have inner glow in your life, and how that changes things. And she's just so authentic and so cool. And I'm really jazzed for you to hear this. So here's Angie Hawkins. Lesley Logan 1:57  Hey, Be It babe. I'm really excited and ready for this conversation. Our guest today is Angie Hawkins, and I think you're gonna hear a lot of similarities in her story and her journey and what she's working on. If you have ever felt like you've done all the things and it's still not working, today's episode is for you. So Angie Hawkins, can you tell everyone who you are and what you rock at?Angie Hawkins 2:19  Yes. Hi everyone. Thank you for having me, Lesley. I am an inner glow coach, and what that means is I help high achieving women stop chasing love and approval and everything outside of themselves, and actually radiate it from within, so they can finally feel happy, free and loved for who they are. And I am also the author of Running in Slippers, which is a raw and vulnerable memoir, that the whole point of the book, because it's very vulnerable, is to encourage connection through vulnerability, because that's how we truly connect as human beings. Lesley Logan 2:49  I couldn't agree more. Also, if you're not watching this beautiful woman on our YouTube channel, are those fresh flowers in your hair? Where are you living right now that you get to have those beautiful flowers in your hair?Angie Hawkins 3:01  I live in Hawaii, so yes, I have fresh flowers in my earrings.Lesley Logan 3:05  Oh, my god, stop. Well, okay, so Running in Slippers, like, most like, I feel like there's a book like, Running in Heels, which already sounds terrible, Running in Slippers isn't easy to do either. Can we go into like, can we get vulnerable a little bit and talk about, like, how did that title come about? Like, what? What is the journey that you had to go on? Because I do think, by the way, if you're listening, we all get to go on a journey like that is the beautiful thing about this life. And sometimes I think we feel like, why is this happening to me? But there's something we get to learn from that. So can you, can we hear yours?Angie Hawkins 3:36  Yes, I love that. And first of all, I before I get into my whole story, which, honestly, the book Running in Slippers gets into all the details, because what I'm going to give you is just the high level cliff notes version. But I live in Hawaii, and we call flip flops, slippers, so it really means running in flip flops.Lesley Logan 3:52  Even harder, even more dangerous.Angie Hawkins 3:55  So, but the reason I titled the book that way is because it's a metaphor for life, because life, it can be fun, playful and adventurous, but it can also be difficult, painful and scary, just like running in flip flops. Lesley Logan 4:07  Yeah, oh, that's so funny. Can you tell I'm totally not an island girl and I do call them slippers. And they can be, like, very childlike, like, you're running on the beach, like, it's really cool, and then you all of a sudden are running on a slippery sidewalk. And, yeah. Angie Hawkins 4:21  Exactly. So, yeah. I think once people understand what it means, it's relatable. And if you do read the book, or anyone listening, if you do read the book, I explained that immediately in the introduction, so that people don't think I'm actually running in house slippers or like that just ruins the whole meeting. I think.Lesley Logan 4:39  I mean, well, you know what? Actually like I was picturing, like you going through something, just like being a girl in her house shoes like running, chasing a dream down.Angie Hawkins 4:48  I think there's so many metaphors, yeah.Lesley Logan 4:51  Awesome. Well, let's get into the Cliff Notes. I love it. Angie Hawkins 4:55  Yes. So basically, like most people, my origin story starts in childhood. And I was raised in a household where the most succinct way to say it is that my both of my parents were extremely emotionally unavailable. And as an adult, I understand what that means, and I have the tools to process that and understand it. But as a little girl, I didn't have those tools, and the way I interpreted the situation is that I thought that I didn't deserve to be loved. So very early, early on in life, I developed this belief. And as most of us are aware, your beliefs dictate your behaviors, and then that dictates what you attract into your life. So needless to say I struggled for many years because I was a people pleaser. I was the one who was chasing love and approval outside of myself. I was the overachiever, because I thought to earn the love and respect and approval, I had to have a high position at work, or I ran marathons for a while, and that became my identity, like I had to get a good time. I was reaching for everything outside of myself, yet I still felt extremely unhappy and unfulfilled, and I was at a point in life where I honestly didn't even think that was available to me. I thought this is just how life was. I didn't think I was worthy of it. I thought it was just something that other people had. So if I was viewing someone else who was happy and fulfilled in their life, it just didn't even seem attainable for me. So even though I was very unhappy, I just kind of went along life, not really knowing what to do about it, like I would read self help books or, you know, do something like go to yoga, or have, like a spiritual practice or something, and that would provide short term a short term fix, but I didn't really have anything implemented for a long term change. And the first real turning point came in 2017, my boyfriend broke up with me, and then my dad passed away, and I was 37 years old, and I had spent 37 years avoiding my feelings, doing everything I could not to feel them, but I was in such profound grief that it was impossible not to feel my feelings, yet I didn't have the tools for emotional regulation. So the best way to say it was I felt like shit for most of that year because I was just sitting in these feelings that I didn't know what to do with. And 2018 came around, and I was probably like, in this New Year's resolution energy, and I decided that I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. And I decided, like, I wanted to make some changes, and I wanted to be happy. I was living in Chicago at the time, and that's when I decided I wanted to move from Chicago to Hawaii.Lesley Logan 7:49  Major differences. Huge differences. Angie Hawkins 7:52  Yes and I will say it was well intentioned, because I was actually taking agency over my life. I was doing something to make a change and be happier. It was not well intentioned, and that I was still reaching for something outside of myself to be the thing that made me feel better, because I wanted the change in location to be the thing that made me happy. And this will probably not come as a surprise, you cannot move away from your problems, so I moved 4000 miles away, and I still had the exact same issues. Not only that, I developed a whole new roster of problems. So, for example, in 2018 remote work was not the trendy thing to do, but I was very fortunate, because my job allowed me to move and keep my job. But at the exact same time that I moved there was this huge management shake up at work that threatened my role, and because I was in this victim mentality of like this is all that's available to me and like this happening to me. I for the first year that I lived here, I lived in constant fear of losing my job. I had a really hard time making friends when I first moved here, which was something I had never dealt with before. So struggling with making friends, being thousands of miles away from anyone I knew, felt extremely isolating. Lesley Logan 9:10  Yeah, and you're in an island, so it's already isolated.Angie Hawkins 9:13  Exactly, exactly. So it's like I didn't have, you know, I just felt really lonely, basically. And the last major thing that happened when I moved here is like to prove how all in and committed I was to my decision. I bought a condo, but then a month after my condo closed, a shared pipe backflowed into my bathroom and I wasn't home, so my entire condo flooded. Yes. So this is all this is all right off the bat. So again, I'm expecting the change to be the thing that makes me feel better, and everything was falling apart. Lesley Logan 9:46  And you're literally doing everything it says I got to go all in, got to burn the boat. You got to buy that condo without the pike being checked. Oh my god, and you haven't even hit Covid yet, shit. Angie Hawkins 9:58  Well, that brings me to Covid because, so that was 2018 right? So, and I'm trying to be like I was totally emotionally bypassing my feelings. I'm like, It's fine, I got this, but I'm not even exaggerating when I say the next two years it was like thing after thing, like my grandma died, like there was always something, and because I didn't have that emotional foundation within myself, because everything outside of me was unraveling. I was unraveling, and then Covid happened. So I don't even have to explain how that exacerbated the situation, just, but the straw, the straw that broke the camel's back was the end of a relationship during Covid. And I just had this moment where, and I think we all have this. I still have these moments where it's like I can't take this anymore, but unfortunately, layered on top of that feeling was the sheer feeling of hopelessness, because nothing had been going well, and I truly could not see any hope for the future, and that is such a dangerous place to be, so I intentionally overdosed on my anxiety medication, and I spent a day and a half unconscious in my bathroom. I spent another day and a half in the hospital.Lesley Logan 11:09  Wait, no one knew you were in your bathroom?Angie Hawkins 11:12  No, I miraculously, I was blacked out. I miraculously texted a friend and she took me to the hospital. That's the only way I was transported. Lesley Logan 11:22  Oh my god. What a story. Oh my god. Oh my god. You're like, this is crazy.Angie Hawkins 11:28  And then where I'll end is I was released from the hospital, and I called a friend, I told her everything that happened, and I ended with, I can't believe I didn't die. And her response was, it's not your time. And it was so profound that it sent a cold chill through my body. Lesley Logan 11:48  I have chills right in this moment. Angie Hawkins 11:49  Yeah and I in that moment, I was like, okay, I think I have a purpose. And I was determined to figure out what it was.Lesley Logan 12:00  Oh my gosh. I just want to say thank you for sharing your story. I'm so glad there was something in you that texted a friend, and I'm also glad that that friend wasn't on, like, Do Not Disturb like, I oh my god. I'm that friend. I'm the Do Not Disturb friend. I this. I would.Angie Hawkins 12:14  My phone's always on silent.Lesley Logan 12:17  I gotta figure this out. There's gotta be a bypass for people. But like, I It's so clear, not only is it not your time, but there was a part of you that was always trying to figure this out. I think in hearing your story like, there was this part of you that's like, I am, there is more for me out there, but like you so there's and I think we all have this. I think so many of my listeners who are here like they know there is more, and yet, when they try to do the more something happens. There's always a thing that happens, like, they make more money, and then a huge bill happens. They break up with the toxic relationship, and then this thing happens, and now they're alone. Like, I you know, there's a whole thing. It's like everything is in balance. Like, you get a good thing and you need a bad thing. But like, also sometimes we're just not ready. If you don't have the muscle for that, then it just feels like you're getting beat while you're down. Angie Hawkins 13:07  Exactly. And I think we're saying the same thing, but I look at it as, for example, in my situation, my brain and my heart felt like they didn't want to be here, but my soul, or higher self, or whatever you want to call it, really did. So I think there's always this part of us, and we're all connected to our intuition or higher self, whether we're like, in tune to it or not, but there's always that part of us that's calling us to this higher purpose or something else, but then we have to deal with the realities of the real world. Lesley Logan 13:38  Yeah. So you wake up in this hospital and you now, like, it's not your time, but like, you have to then get out of the hospital and and figure so how do you, how do you do that? Like, where do you start? Because, like, there's a million books, there's a million courses, there's 17 million charlatans, you could end up in a cult real easily, you know. So how did you, how did you figure it out?Angie Hawkins 14:01  Well, I don't know if this is lucky or unlucky, but because at the time this happened, I was 40 years old, and I had spent out of my 30s reading all the books, doing all the workshops, doing all of that stuff. But again, it had only provided like something short term. It really didn't give any meaningful long term change in my life. So fast forward to when, you know, my friend told me that, and I decided, like, okay, I need to get help, and I need to get help the right way. I decided to invest in myself and actually hire a coach, because it had been something I was thinking about. But when you're not fully committed to a decision, you're just kind of in this wishy-washy energy. And in addition to that, again, I was in the state of not really feeling worthy of investing in myself or putting in the time, energy or money. But when you're desperate like I was, because keep in mind, I felt worse than I did before I took the pills and yeah like, I can't explain what almost dying does to you, but there were several weeks where I had one foot on the other side of the veil, which was kind of a scary experience in its own so for several weeks, my only goal was to make it through the day. So I was so desperate for help, and I knew I had to get help the right way that like, the first thing I did was reach out to a coach. And again, this just happened to be luck, because in my I call it like from the time I got out of the hospital out I call that my healing in earnest journey, but my healing not in earnest. I had gone to this healing intensive, and I had met this coach, and he was actually a men's dating coach, but he doesn't teach, like pick up artists type stuff. He teaches men how to be the best versions of themselves so that they can attract the right partner. So we followed each other on Instagram. So all of his messaging, even though it was, like, geared toward men, it was about being the best version of yourself. So I had thought about reaching out to him before, but now that I was desperate, I'm like, I don't care if he's a men's dating coach, I'm reaching out to him. So I reached out to him. Lesley Logan 16:17  You had trust in him, yeah. Angie Hawkins 16:17  We talked, yeah, yeah. So I was very lucky that I had already made that connection with someone I trusted. Otherwise I would have been searching.Lesley Logan 16:25  Yeah, and like, at a time that, like, I again, there's, there was a party that was already seeking these things out, just those other, the other part of you that was like, like you said, not feeling worthy. And I, I hear this, you know, I just came back from an amazing retreat. And one of the women who came on it, she's like, yeah, I'm one of those people who kept going, oh, I'll do it next time, oh, you know when I have this, then I then I can sign up for it, or when I've done this, then I can sign up for it. And then she's like, fuck it. I'm, I'm worthy to go right now. I'm like, that. Angie Hawkins 16:54  I love that. Lesley Logan 16:55  That right there that makes me so happy. And also, you know, so many people, smart women, listening to this show right now will do that, that little negotiation, oh, when I do this, then I'll be and it's like, you're fucking worthy already. And this is no offense to the parents who are listening. Everyone is doing the best they can, but most of us, somewhere in life along the way, feel like we have to earn the worthiness that we were already born with. Yeah, yeah.Angie Hawkins 17:21  Yes, yeah. And that's where, like, the chasing something outside of yourself come from. Lesley Logan 17:24  Yeah and then that's why you only get those quick little fixes, but it doesn't last. So you found this guy and he helped you, and then what, like, was it like, well, I've made it.Angie Hawkins 17:36  No, it was absolutely a process. I won't sugarcoat that part, because any lasting change is a process, right? But the value and the work that I did with him was, you know, I still have these limiting beliefs, like I'm not worthy, I don't deserve to be loved, blah, blah, blah, but he helped me change my behaviors so that eventually, because if when I started setting healthy boundaries, when I started trusting myself, when I started implementing all the things that we talked about, like over time, that actually changed my beliefs. And so now I do believe I deserve to be loved. I do respect myself, I do trust myself, but that all came like through this process of working with a coach, and that's what ultimately led me, because I was in corporate America for over 20 years, but in stepping into my authentic self and realizing what I want in life, what makes me happy and fulfilled, I realized corporate America was not it, and I also realized that there are so many other women who are now struggling in the same way that I used to struggle. So I was like, I want to help them. So I quit corporate America and became an inner glow coach.Lesley Logan 18:44  I love this. I also love that it's inner glow, like, it's just like, because it's, you know, we we are, most of us are seeking outside of ourselves to change the inside of ourselves. And you just said something about, like, your limiting beliefs, and once you change your beliefs, it's true. Like, we think, okay, well, first of all, this environment, it's not clean. So because this room isn't clean, I can't do the things that I said I was going to do. And then when you don't do the things you said you're gonna do, you don't have confidence. Because that's just, by the way, how confidence works, right? Like, confidence works by doing the thing you said you're gonna do. And so, but then we're like, but we think it's this outside stuff, oh, I gotta make sure that, like, this is just right, or that's just the lighting is just right, but really it's the belief system that we have that affects everything. So can we, do you mind if we go there? Like, can we talk about that? Because, like, if you're someone who typically, you see a people pleaser, and who you know was also, as you mentioned, like, nervous, like, nervous about, like, losing your job. Like, I imagine that the belief systems you had were then causing you to, like, run around and be everything to everybody, and then you have to change the belief systems to be like, nope, not doing that. Like, what's the process? How do you do that?Angie Hawkins 19:52  I mean, it's a whole process, but the whole, and this is what my coaching program is based on, but the overall concept is, we're all born with this light inside of us, but then as we go about life, there's family systems, there's society systems, there's corporate America systems, there's all these systems that if you really think about it, they're just arbitrary rules that someone made up along the way, and we're just blindly following them so we become disconnected from ourselves, and it dims our light. And for example, because I used to be a people pleaser, I would not even question, like, if someone invited me to do something or asked me to do something, I wouldn't even question, like, what do I want to do? What makes me happy and fulfilled? So it's not about and I and this is why I think I struggled with self help when I was healing in my 30s and reaching for things outside of myself, because a lot of it is geared toward fixing yourself or changing something about yourself, but really it's about coming back home to who you are and basing your life off of that. Because when you stop giving your power away to all these external things, you've really stopped caring. Because when you're concerned about, am I living in integrity? Am I happy with who I am as a person? Am I happy with my decisions? You stop caring about what other people think about it.Lesley Logan 21:13  That is so true. That is so true, and so many I was just doing a call with some of the people that I, that I teach today, and, you know, I could tell the question was a very valid question, but I was like, so people, some people like you, if you do it the authentic, the way that's authentic to you, that's also okay, like, they're allowed to go, I don't like that. And it doesn't mean that you're not a great person, you're not a great teacher, but we are so conditioned to be liked, if you're liked, then you did something right?Angie Hawkins 21:45  Yes. And I actually have the opposite viewpoint now, because I totally used to be like that. I wanted everyone to like me, and if someone didn't, then I would like chase after their approval. But now, now I really don't care. And that doesn't mean I don't care about the other person. It's just, it just means that I respect their free will, like, I'm not for everybody, and that's okay, like they have other people that they choose to surround themselves with, and that's okay. I respect who they are as a person, but you have to be like, so grounded in who you are as a person to even get to that point. Lesley Logan 22:17  Yeah, and that's the hard part, because also, if you're so used to trying to anchor in the outside world of who you are, then coming home to yourself, it's gonna feel unfamiliar. And people don't like change, right, like. Angie Hawkins 22:34  Yeah and I think that's why a lot of people resist change, because a huge part in my healing and earnest journey was finding who I was, which was a huge identity shift, because I didn't even know who I was, because I had spent most of my life conforming to all these things outside of myself, and it is very scary. So I was able to see why I had resisted it for so long.Lesley Logan 22:57  Yeah. I mean, it makes me think of like that Runaway Bride, where she like, doesn't, she takes her eggs, you know, and then at the end, she just, you're like, ordering eggs all the different ways so she can figure it out. Because it's like, it is kind of like, well, how do you know you're home? Like, how do you know that you're not, like, conforming again, just another way, you know, that's, can you see, like, where my anxiety will go?Angie Hawkins 23:18  Well, no. Like, one of the first things that my coach worked with me on, and this is one of the first things I work with my clients on, is creating your own rules for life. So you create these value statements, and it's like any decision you make, you just kind of go down the list. Am I doing this? This, this? Then, yep, then I'm good to go. So once you have your own rules for life, it doesn't matter. I mean, as long as you're not breaking the law or anything, which. Lesley Logan 23:43  Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, like, and that's true, like, you're not hurting people, there are rules for your life that affect only you. And I actually love this because, you know, people like, we coach Pilates instructors on their business. And someone's like, why should I do this? And I'm like, what are your values for your business? Does it go through those? And so it makes sense to have rules for life that's just very much a value system of how you want and it's like, does this, you know, does this? Like, I will do things that light me up. I will do things after 9am because I no longer get up early for people like, oh, this person wants to meet at 9am well, then that is a no, yeah.Angie Hawkins 24:20  Well, it's hard to do, but once you have that system in place, life is so much easier, because that's another thing. I used to feel like life was such a struggle, but it was because I was making that way for myself.Lesley Logan 24:32  Yeah, yeah. I think we all, I think a lot of us are doing that. So I guess like, so since you were, can we go back to it like, when you're a people pleaser like that look like, just like being a yes person for whatever people are saying. How do you now respond to people asking things of you, or the like, if you know what I mean, like, what is some what is a way that you're now responding in life to not being a people pleaser and owning things for yourself and owning like the way you want to live?Angie Hawkins 24:58  Yeah? Yeah, I guess it's different for different situations, but because I think I swayed too far, because I first started implementing boundaries when I worked in corporate America, and at first I would just be like, nope, not doing that, nope, but which no it well.Lesley Logan 25:16  Angie used to do everything, now she does nothing.Angie Hawkins 25:19  And no, is a complete sentence, but you do have to take into consideration the circumstance, especially if it's like work for family and friends. But usually I'll just simply explain, like, for example, something that comes up frequently is that people will ask me to have a call on the weekend, and that's just the boundary that I have. I don't do calls on the weekends. I will rearrange any time during my week, like, to some extent, but I just like, that's my personal time where I recharge is the weekend. So if someone is like, I just had someone this week, well, can you do a call on a Saturday? And I was like, no, I'm sorry I don't do calls on the weekends. It was no problem. She's like, oh, sure. I'll find another time during the week. So it's, it seems scary to do, but in most cases, it's not a problem. Now, if she would have said, like, there's absolutely no other time during the week for the foreseeable future, I might have considered it. So it's still not a strict no, but I do protect my energy as much as possible.Lesley Logan 26:18  Yeah, well, and I, but I love the way you phrased it, because you're also educating the person that it's like, instead of saying, like, some people would go, like, like, you do it this one Saturday, but like, that isn't setting a boundary. It's actually like letting them think that that's a thing. And instead, you're like, oh, I don't do calls on the weekends. That is actually like letting people, letting the person know, like, it's not a, no, I don't like you. It's just a you're asking for a time that's not available and isn't available. You know? So, and I think that you know a lot of people who struggle with being liked, feeling worthy, the people pleasing there's, it's, it's such a simple sentence, once you are have arrived, and like knowing that you're worthy, and it's so difficult, because it's like, you just say that. You just say no, I don't do calls on the weekends. It's like, give it a try, you know. But it's hard. It's hard for people. Angie Hawkins 27:06  It is hard. But the funny thing is, it really is that easy, because, like, the first few times I had to say no, because I used to be I used to have zero boundaries, like I couldn't even if someone invited me to do something. I couldn't even say no to that. But when I first started using the word no, like, no, I'm sorry, I need to rest this weekend or whatever, and then they were like, okay, that's fine, because it's very rare that you have people push back. And honestly, the people that do push back on your boundaries are the kind of people you don't want in your life anyway. Lesley Logan 27:36  Yeah, so that becomes a (inaudible) sign.Angie Hawkins 27:39  And it becomes very apparent, very fast, and that's actually helpful information for you. So boundaries are so powerful in so many ways.Lesley Logan 27:48  I do it's really interesting, because some people are like, oh, you're so rigid. I'm like, I'm I'm not rigid. Actually, I just don't, just don't do things on your timeline. I do things on my timeline, and that's okay, because I also don't have expectations that you do things on my timeline, you know, like, but there is a Venn diagram where our timelines will align if it's meant to be together, you know.Angie Hawkins 28:11  But you probably also have a lot of people who respect how self-respecting you are of yourself, because I got to the point where this happened a lot at work, people would compliment me on my boundaries. And I was like, me, like someone who used to not have boundaries? So a lot of people will actually respect you for having boundaries.Lesley Logan 28:29  They totally do, and also like and if they don't, or they're upset about like, I'm like, oh, why is this person getting so upset about the fact that I just I cannot do a call before 9am because you want to know what I'm going to forget it's there, because I don't have to work before 9am so if on a day I have to work before 9am there are three people reminding me that I've got a call at eight because I'll just go, yeah, yeah, you told me. You told me, and it's like good to do. So, like, it's more out of like, my habit is I don't so then I don't have to remember anything extra. But I do, I do, I do think that these things reveal things about people. And it reveals, like, are we gonna work together? Well, you know, like, and I, I do. I do hope people respect my respect that I have so much, such good, grounded boundaries and and also, like, it's because I used to, like you, always have none. And I used to chase, like, if anyone would invite me, I would just go, okay, I'm coming over. Yeah, I'm spending the night. How many nights I'll stay? I'll stay all the nights you want. Like, I wouldn't go home for like, a week. My parents were just like, okay, you know, because, like, I was having so much fun, but also, like, I wasn't actually doing anything for me. I was doing whatever we wanted to do it there, you know. So I all the way until when I got a job. Oh my gosh, Angie, I would get every job I had that was not for myself, I would just keep getting promoted, and I would just say, yes, that's like, the lack of boundaries. Like, okay, yeah, I'll take on that job that I have no idea how to do. No problem. I got it. I'll do it. And like, and you had to quit my job so they wouldn't promote me again, because I couldn't trust myself to turn it down because I needed the money. So it was like, I needed the money. The promotion came with a raise. And also, also, they're like, well, Lesley will always do 150% so she'll just do more than this is being paid for anyways, and, like, so I just, it took me a lot. It took me, like, literally having to quit my job. So I wouldn't say that.Angie Hawkins 30:16  Yeah, and that's why I got really disgruntled with corporate America, because it's, it's like a dysfunctional family, like they will promote the people who have zero boundaries, because they can take advantage of them, amongst other things. Lesley Logan 30:29  Yes, and I also don't even think it's a conscious decision. They're just like, oh, this person does so much. Why wouldn't we want them to do more? So okay, but we do have a lot of people who don't get to quit their job and become an inner glow coach. So like, if, if people want to work on their inner glow, but then have to, like, work within corporate America. Like, is there hope for them? Can they do it?Angie Hawkins 30:50  I think it depends on the situation. Like, I wish I could say that I just, like, had so much courage and just, you know, wildly, went out on my own. But even after I had the idea that I wanted to quit and start my own business, I still had to have the universe kick me in the butt, because I was transferred to this team, and I basically had a bully as a manager, and it got so bad that I couldn't stand it. And I was like, okay, this is my sign to leave. I think if something is that toxic, your choices are limited, however, like I've been in other situations that were not that toxic, and I do think you can navigate them again, like by having strong boundaries is huge, but having a strong sense of yourself so that they're not taking advantage of you and walking all over you.Lesley Logan 31:37  Yeah, I think, like when you do have strong boundaries, you can recognize that in a company. So if you're like interviewing, you can start to recognize, like, the signs that their boundaries are, you know, that they're like, I had someone, I took a breath work course, and they said there are space makers and there are space takers, and nothing that neither is wrong. But can we all agree, space makers, that you can raise your hand first and space takers, if they ask more of you, it doesn't mean that they're assholes. You just have to say, no. Angie Hawkins 32:07  Yeah and because sometimes it is unintentional. Lesley Logan 32:10  Yeah, I do think so. I think they're just asking. Like, there are people who, like, are good questioners, like, I'm not that person, and they'll just ask. I'm like, oh my god, they just asked that person to write their bio, you know. But like, they're just asking, and, like, it requires other person to go, oh, I actually, I review bios, but I don't write them, you know. So, you know, like, yeah, we have to. I think where people struggle is that they they figure out their boundaries, and maybe you can help with this, they figure what their boundaries are, and then they have to reinforce them, because, unfortunately, there isn't like, like, a rules sheet when you enter this, like, when you enter a call with me, there's not like, here are all the rules I have, right? Like, the rules of engagement. That's not how life works. You're going to be out and about, you're going to run into people, you're gonna be at a grocery store, you're gonna be at a job interview. So, like, how do people like is, how did you navigate having to enforce your boundaries after you got, like, after the pendulum swung all the way and you're like, no, like, how did you like one in the middle to like, enforce boundaries without feeling like you're constantly enforcing your boundaries?Angie Hawkins 33:11  That's a really good question, because the hardest part of boundaries is not setting them, it's enforcing them, because there are people who will intentionally try to walk all over you and try to encroach your boundaries, but to your point earlier, people will unintentionally, like, you know, just try to inch up on them, and you have to be stern on enforcing them. And it could be, and again, it depends on the situation, but it could escalate to the point where it's like, I can no longer talk to you if you'll continue to disrespect my no, I mean that but with enforcing boundaries, not only do you have to state the consequence, you have to be willing to enforce the consequence if they do encroach your boundary again. So it can be difficult, and there have been people in my life that I've had to cut off communication with for that reason, but like in the long run, it makes my mental health so much better, because you don't have that person sucking up your energy anymore.Lesley Logan 34:14  Yeah, yeah, I agree. And also, thank God for technology, because it's so easy to block and bless you can block phone numbers, you can block emails. You can block socials. Like, you can also add them at the time, that's right. But like, you can protect your energy. Angie Hawkins 34:27  Yeah, that's true. Lesley Logan 34:28  I probably should ask you this earlier. But like, can we talk about what inner glow looks like? What it means, like, what is it like? You know, obviously, as we heard your journey, like, you know, obviously, pre the earnest time, maybe no inner glow, but like, what is, what does it mean when we have inner glow? Like, how do we know if we have it?Angie Hawkins 34:47  Well, so the reason I came up with the name Inner Glow is because when I truly started believing like that I loved myself, that I deserved to be loved, and I respected myself, and I believed that I deserve that from other people, it was truly a sensation of in my chest, like it felt like the sun was glowing, like it was like, maybe I can explain it as, like an energetic feeling from the inside out, yeah. But on top of that, I would have other people tell me, like, oh, you're glowing or some people would even just compliment my looks in that like, oh, you look so beautiful. Blah, blah, blah. But I think they were really talking about the reflection of my energy. So the inner glow is radiating in your own love and respect, so much that it's actually radiating to people outside of you. So not only do they see it, but they can be inspired by it, and it's this ripple effect, because I'm of the mindset that you're either contributing to the negative vibration of the universe, because there's plenty of that going on right now, or you're contributing to raising the vibration of the universe. So like this ripple effect even extends out to raising the vibration of the entire universe, because you're sending out, because there's so many things going on in this world right now that it's hard for us to impact on an individual level. But, even just sending that energy of love to certain areas of the world actually does make a difference.Lesley Logan 36:11  It really, you're, you're so I'm glad we're touching on this, because I think it is. It can even feel like, especially in the time that we're talking, it can feel like, well, what's the point? Like, everything is falling apart. So many people have less than me. I'm barely keeping alive. Most of my listeners at the time we're recording this guys, it's October 23rd 2025, and the you know if you're listening to the States, government shutdown. People are hearing that their health insurance can go up to 30,000 or 40,000 a year from nine and and like, you could be like, why should I have an inner glow? How do I even think about glowing when like, this is happening outside of my control, and people have less than and it's in you can almost feel like, what's the point? But you're, what you said it, the point is like the world needs more of us to raise the vibrations and affect, even if you affect the three people that are your neighbors and you show them so much love, it does. It does have a domino effect. It does have this like magnetism effect. I do believe that.Angie Hawkins 37:11  Yeah, and even if you don't think just being in your own positive light is changing the universe, you can actually just pick someone and send positive energy to that person. And trust me, it makes a difference in that person's life.Lesley Logan 37:26  It does. I love that, gosh, Angie, you're so cool. Like, what you're doing is so needed. And I think, like, especially because, you know, I've had, I've heard so many listeners going, I've done this, I've done this. I'm still stuck. I'm still struggling. And I, what I like, I'm gathering from this is like, it's all that outward stuff. It's not, it's not actually going to make the change. It has to be the inner glow. It has to be this inner vibration that you're changing. And that does take time, and it does take a lot of knowing of who you are. And that's a process.Angie Hawkins 38:01  yes, but it is 100% worth it, and I am proof of that. Lesley Logan 38:05  And you're like, at this goal, you've got these gorgeous wallpaper that matches your plants in the background, like you're just glowing, so, well, we could talk forever, and we'll probably have to have another conversation in the future, but we're gonna take a brief break and then find out how people can find you, follow you, and work with you. Lesley Logan 38:22  All right. Angie, the Inner Glow Coach, where do you hang out? Obviously, Hawaii. But Can people work with you online? Where should they go? What? What should they grab?Angie Hawkins 38:30  Yes, please visit my website. It is runninginslippers.com which is also the name of my book. So there's obviously information on where to buy the book. It's on paperback, Kindle and audiobook, and I do narrate the audio book, but there's also information on my coaching program. My current coaching program is called Shine From the Inside, and I do offer Free 60-Minute Find Your Glow sessions. So we will talk for an hour about whatever you're struggling with, and at the end, I will give recommendations for going forward, because you know, my, me and my coaching program are not for everyone, and I am okay with that. So if we're not a good fit, I know other coaches, I know therapists. I have other resources that I can refer you to. The entire goal of the call is to get you help, because again, I am confident that there are other women struggling in the same way I was, and you do not have to live that life that way. Lesley Logan 39:26  Oh my god, an hour call and, you guys, take advantage, because, you know.Angie Hawkins 39:31  Everyone I've done a call with has a breakthrough on that call, because an hour is a long time. Lesley Logan 39:36  Yeah, oh, you're so good. Okay, you have given us a lot already, but we do at the show like to have a little, not a too long didn't listen, but just like a little summary and like an actionable step we can take, because we are high performers who are listening to this podcast. So bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it, what do you have for us? Angie Hawkins 39:55  Number one is to decide, because any meaningful change. Your life comes from a decision, and the reason that is is because if you're not committed, you're going to be in the squishy, washy energy. And that's where you hear people say stuff like, well, I tried and it's not working, or I'm trying, and if you're not committed to something, you're going to quit the second it gets hard, but when you're committed to your decision, then the only choice is to stay on that path and figure out if something isn't working, and then you'll figure out what does. So I know it sounds simplistic, but when you make a decision to do something, you're committed and all in and that's when the real change happens. That's when lasting change happens. Number two is to take action. And I know you talk about this a lot, so I won't dwell on that. But number three, which is in conjunction with taking action, is about your nervous system, because a lot of people think that confidence and courage is about not being afraid, and taking action is about feeling the fear and doing it anyway. So before you take action, you need to prime your nervous system. So an easy way to do that is to just like, sit up straight, breathe. Some people do the Superman pose. What I do if I'm doing something in public, I call it the goddess walk, or the celebrity walk. I will walk into a place like I own it, even if I'm like, a nervous wreck and falling apart on the inside, but it's priming your nervous system to feel the fear and do it anyway, and just overall, your nervous system regulation. Because I used to be the kind of person I would let anxiety and fear just absolutely take over me, but now I have the tools to actually feel safe in my own body while I'm feeling those feelings and knowing that they're not going to consume me and overwhelm me so nervous system regulation and feeling safe in your own body while you're feeling the fear and doing it anyway. Lesley Logan 41:50  Oh my god, I'm obsessed. Okay, I have a fun story for you, and this will be a great way for people to have an example of that goddess walk. So in Cambodia, in our town, in our village, there's, there's a couple street lights now in the city, which is really annoying because I think it's causing more traffic. And people have now decided to have cars instead of motos. I don't know why you'd want to be in a car going 20 miles an hour when you could be in a moto going 25 but that's fine. At any rate, you just have to cross the street. Okay, so I don't know if you ever been to Southeast Asia, but you just have to cross the street. And these went. Lesley Logan 42:21  I have been to Indonesia. Lesley Logan 42:22  Correct. Okay, there, yes. So you have to cross the street and they and you can't, you cannot stop. If you stop, that's when you you fuck it all up, because now the bike was like expecting you to continue going, and they were gonna be right behind you, and now you stopped, and now they have to swerve, but then there's somebody behind so it becomes a domino effect. And when I first went to Cambodia, we were in Phnom Penh, and I saw this, she could have been seven years old, and she had a little kid who I don't know, barely walking in her hand. You guys, this was a five-lane wide on any American street, but probably, like 10-lane wide in Europe, because, like, you know how the streets are really wide in the States. Anyways, she put her hand up and just crossed the street with this little kid, and she just had her hand up, seven years old, and she just crossed. I saw the first time I was in Phnom Penh, I saw this, and I was like, look at that girl. Look at that confidence, right? But when we moved, it to Siem Reap, we do our time there. I channel that girl every time. So when I cross the street, I just throw my arms up and I just walk like it's my fucking street, and you can go around me. And so these women are like, okay, can we go, and I'm like, what we're gonna do is we're gonna open our arms and we're gonna walk and we're gonna own this place. And by the oh my god, by the end, Angie, everyone is just like going.Angie Hawkins 43:37  I love that story. I love that. That's a perfect example. Lesley Logan 43:41  Walking. It's like, the Miss Congeniality, like I'm walking here, but like, like, hello, like, open, good vibes. And it's just so funny. And now to be home, and I'm like, oh, I'm just, I have to wait for the light. Angie Hawkins 43:53  Or do you? Maybe you could do that here. Lesley Logan 43:59  It's so fun. It's so fun. But I love that, because you do have to, you said it, I just want to reiterate, people who are you think are confident and courageous, are not without fear. They are truly they did a show. It's showtime. Pep talk, something they're shaking in the boot. You're not like behind the podium. They're all doing it, and you can I just, this is a great, great show, Angie, you're the best. Thank you for helping us find our inner glow. Lesley Logan 44:27  You guys. How are you going to use these tips in your life? We want to know. Tag Angie. Tag the Be It Pod. Go get that phone call with her. My goodness, like you're gonna have breakthrough. Who wouldn't want to do that? And, oh, my god, I'm so jealous you're in Hawaii right now. It's got to feel like, like just you're on a beautiful island. Anyways, thank you so much for being our guest today, Angie and everyone, please share this with a friend who needs to hear it. Until next time, Be It Till You See It. Lesley Logan 44:50  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Brad Crowell 45:32  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 45:37  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 45:42  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 45:49  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 45:52  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Joanna Coles welcomes back Kurt Andersen to dissect what he argues may be Donald Trump's most unhinged week yet, from surreal AI depictions casting himself as Jesus to a deepening spiral of contradictions, conspiracies, and political theater that even longtime observers find startling. Drawing on decades of watching Trump up close, Andersen revives his now-infamous “Venn diagram” of lies, ignorance, and instability—warning that the overlap is expanding in real time—while unpacking the bizarre collision of religion, ego, and power now shaping the MAGA movement. The conversation covers the Pope's unexpectedly deft pushback to the growing discomfort inside Trump's own coalition, before zeroing in on RFK Jr.'s chaotic tenure, public health fallout, and a trail of denials that mirror Trump's own reality-warping playbook. As cabinet figures maneuver, allies hedge, and whispers of exits and fractures grow louder, Andersen paints a picture of a political universe edging toward something far more volatile than spectacle. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

──────────────────────────────────────── [00:02:09] Week 7: 50,000 Troops in Iran — 10,200 More Deploying; Chinese Sanctioned Tanker Got Through the Blockade Trump is sending another 10,200 troops. A Chinese sanctioned tanker passed through the blockade unopposed. Knight: China told the US not to stop their ships — and Trump blinked. One more incident means World War Three. ──────────────────────────────────────── [00:10:32] Europe Has Six Weeks of Jet Fuel Left — Airlines Merging, Adding Fees, Cutting Routes Airlines going upscale: fewer seats, higher prices. United and American discussing a merger. Delta's CEO: high fuel prices have always been the most powerful catalyst for eliminating weaker carriers. ──────────────────────────────────────── [00:24:08] Illinois AI Liability Bill: Immunity for Mass Death — Only If the AI Cost Over $100 Million to Build An Illinois bill backed by OpenAI would shield AI developers from liability for mass death, WMD deployment, and autonomous criminal conduct — if compute costs exceeded $100 million. Knight: pharmaceutical immunity model applied to killer robots. ──────────────────────────────────────── [00:36:52] The Real Goal of AI Is to Eliminate Wages — Workers Left Behind Spend Their Days Cleaning Up AI Slop Companies deploying AI find remaining employees spend most of their time correcting subtle errors. Knight: cognitive dependence on AI shrinks the brain the same way GPS shrank London taxi drivers' spatial memory — measurably and fast. ──────────────────────────────────────── [00:45:19] Biblical Worldview Fell From 6% to 4% in 18 Months of COVID Lockdowns — Has Stayed There Since Researcher Adam Rasmussen: church shutdowns drove a 33% collapse in biblical worldview in 18 months. It has stayed at 4% since. Emerging followers dropped from 19% to 10% in the same period. ──────────────────────────────────────── [00:57:36] Only 1 in 25 American Adults Is an "Integrated Disciple" — Children Under 17 Have a 1 in 100 Chance Rasmussen: integrated disciples are 4% of adults. Emerging followers are 10%. The remaining 85% are "world citizens" from a syncretistic worldview. Children under 17 have a 1 in 100 or lower chance. ──────────────────────────────────────── [01:06:47] Inverse Correlation: More Biblical Worldview Means Less Anxiety, Depression, and Suicidal Ideation Rasmussen's 2024 study found a moderate to strong inverse correlation between biblical worldview and anxiety, depression, fear, and suicidal ideation. The younger the cohort, the less biblical worldview — and the higher the mental health burden. ──────────────────────────────────────── [01:26:40] FBI Agent Wayne Barnes: Robert Hanson Was Perhaps the Most Damaging Spy in US Intelligence History Hanson voluntarily sought out the KGB and sold secrets for 22 years before being caught in 2001. He died in Supermax solitary in 2023. His first words to the SWAT team: "What took you so long?" Barnes spent seven years getting FBI pre-publication clearance. ──────────────────────────────────────── [01:36:29] How Barnes Identified Hanson: A KGB Defector Brought Internal FBI Memos — Only One Source Was Possible A 1990s KGB defector brought internal FBI memos as proof of penetration. FBI memos don't circulate outside the bureau — the mole had to be inside. Barnes used Venn diagram overlap of who saw each memo to narrow to one name. ──────────────────────────────────────── [01:43:27] Barnes: Spies Are Almost Always Made by a Crisis — Sick Child, Medical Debt, Marriage Falling Apart Barnes' core insight: ideology rarely starts it. A crisis — a child needing surgery, financial collapse — is almost always the trigger. Once someone sells the first secret, they are on the hook permanently. ──────────────────────────────────────── [01:51:16] Senate Voted 40-59 to Continue Arming Israel — Same Day Netanyahu Said Vance Reports to Him Daily The motion to cut Israel arms funding failed 40 to 59, the same day Netanyahu publicly stated JD Vance calls him from his plane to "report in detail, as the people of this administration do every day." ──────────────────────────────────────── [01:54:55] Pentagon Ramping Up Cuba Military Planning — Trump: "I Can Do Anything I Want With It" Pentagon Cuba planning began in January with oil shipment curbs. Trump publicly said he could "take Cuba in some form" and added, "I think I can do anything I want to with it." ──────────────────────────────────────── Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to https://davidknight.gold/ for great deals on physical gold/silver For 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to https://trendsjournal.com/ and enter the code “KNIGHT” For high quality made in America products go to HomeSteadProducts.shop and use promo code “Knight” for 10% off your purchases Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.com If you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-showOr you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @DavidKnightShow@protonmail.comCash App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

──────────────────────────────────────── [00:02:09] Week 7: 50,000 Troops in Iran — 10,200 More Deploying; Chinese Sanctioned Tanker Got Through the Blockade Trump is sending another 10,200 troops. A Chinese sanctioned tanker passed through the blockade unopposed. Knight: China told the US not to stop their ships — and Trump blinked. One more incident means World War Three. ──────────────────────────────────────── [00:10:32] Europe Has Six Weeks of Jet Fuel Left — Airlines Merging, Adding Fees, Cutting Routes Airlines going upscale: fewer seats, higher prices. United and American discussing a merger. Delta's CEO: high fuel prices have always been the most powerful catalyst for eliminating weaker carriers. ──────────────────────────────────────── [00:24:08] Illinois AI Liability Bill: Immunity for Mass Death — Only If the AI Cost Over $100 Million to Build An Illinois bill backed by OpenAI would shield AI developers from liability for mass death, WMD deployment, and autonomous criminal conduct — if compute costs exceeded $100 million. Knight: pharmaceutical immunity model applied to killer robots. ──────────────────────────────────────── [00:36:52] The Real Goal of AI Is to Eliminate Wages — Workers Left Behind Spend Their Days Cleaning Up AI Slop Companies deploying AI find remaining employees spend most of their time correcting subtle errors. Knight: cognitive dependence on AI shrinks the brain the same way GPS shrank London taxi drivers' spatial memory — measurably and fast. ──────────────────────────────────────── [00:45:19] Biblical Worldview Fell From 6% to 4% in 18 Months of COVID Lockdowns — Has Stayed There Since Researcher Adam Rasmussen: church shutdowns drove a 33% collapse in biblical worldview in 18 months. It has stayed at 4% since. Emerging followers dropped from 19% to 10% in the same period. ──────────────────────────────────────── [00:57:36] Only 1 in 25 American Adults Is an "Integrated Disciple" — Children Under 17 Have a 1 in 100 Chance Rasmussen: integrated disciples are 4% of adults. Emerging followers are 10%. The remaining 85% are "world citizens" from a syncretistic worldview. Children under 17 have a 1 in 100 or lower chance. ──────────────────────────────────────── [01:06:47] Inverse Correlation: More Biblical Worldview Means Less Anxiety, Depression, and Suicidal Ideation Rasmussen's 2024 study found a moderate to strong inverse correlation between biblical worldview and anxiety, depression, fear, and suicidal ideation. The younger the cohort, the less biblical worldview — and the higher the mental health burden. ──────────────────────────────────────── [01:26:40] FBI Agent Wayne Barnes: Robert Hanson Was Perhaps the Most Damaging Spy in US Intelligence History Hanson voluntarily sought out the KGB and sold secrets for 22 years before being caught in 2001. He died in Supermax solitary in 2023. His first words to the SWAT team: "What took you so long?" Barnes spent seven years getting FBI pre-publication clearance. ──────────────────────────────────────── [01:36:29] How Barnes Identified Hanson: A KGB Defector Brought Internal FBI Memos — Only One Source Was Possible A 1990s KGB defector brought internal FBI memos as proof of penetration. FBI memos don't circulate outside the bureau — the mole had to be inside. Barnes used Venn diagram overlap of who saw each memo to narrow to one name. ──────────────────────────────────────── [01:43:27] Barnes: Spies Are Almost Always Made by a Crisis — Sick Child, Medical Debt, Marriage Falling Apart Barnes' core insight: ideology rarely starts it. A crisis — a child needing surgery, financial collapse — is almost always the trigger. Once someone sells the first secret, they are on the hook permanently. ──────────────────────────────────────── [01:51:16] Senate Voted 40-59 to Continue Arming Israel — Same Day Netanyahu Said Vance Reports to Him Daily The motion to cut Israel arms funding failed 40 to 59, the same day Netanyahu publicly stated JD Vance calls him from his plane to "report in detail, as the people of this administration do every day." ──────────────────────────────────────── [01:54:55] Pentagon Ramping Up Cuba Military Planning — Trump: "I Can Do Anything I Want With It" Pentagon Cuba planning began in January with oil shipment curbs. Trump publicly said he could "take Cuba in some form" and added, "I think I can do anything I want to with it." ──────────────────────────────────────── Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to https://davidknight.gold/ for great deals on physical gold/silver For 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to https://trendsjournal.com/ and enter the code “KNIGHT”For high quality made in America products go to HomeSteadProducts.shop and use promo code “Knight” for 10% off your purchasesFind out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.com If you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-showOr you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @DavidKnightShow@protonmail.comCash App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-real-david-knight-show--5282736/support.

Lesley Logan and Brad Crowell dive into the highlights of Lesley's conversation with Billy Lahr, a Certified Mindfulness Meditation Teacher with a background in education and behavior change. They explore his perspective on comfort zones, breaking down the difference between being comfortable and becoming complacent, and why growth doesn't have to come from constant discomfort. From the importance of healthcare directives to the permission gap that keeps women selfless to a fault, this episode challenges you to take a more intentional approach to how you live and show up.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:Making healthcare decisions in advance using a free online resource.How to stretch one's comfort zone to avoid the complacency zone.The power of closing the permission gap to stop burnout.Why self-prioritization is the key to a grounded, centered life.How to leverage curiosity and consistency to build genuine passion.Episode References/Links:FreeWill - freewill.comOPC Spring Training (Virtual Event) - opc.me/events   2027 eLevate Mentorship Program - lesleylogan.co/elevatePilates Summer Tour - opc.me/tourFolding Pilates Mat - opc.me/foldingmatMindful Midlife Crisis - https://www.mindfulmidlifecrisis.comBilly Lahr Official Website - https://billylahr.comJump Start Conversation - https://mindfulmidlifecrisis.systeme.io/jumpstartconvoSubmit Your Questions - beitpod.com/questions If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Brad Crowell 0:00  He's saying we think that when we're selfless, we're quote, unquote correct or right, and then when we are selfish, we're wrong. And what he was saying is, like, those are both actual extremes. Yeah, you know, what if we were grounded or self-centered? Or what if we focus about centered self, not like, in a negative way, but like, how do we—Lesley Logan 0:23  I know so—Brad Crowell 0:24  How can we be both of those things instead of like, one or the other? Lesley Logan 0:28  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. Brad Crowell 1:10  Take it away there, Lesley.Lesley Logan 1:13  Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the thought-provoking convo I had with Billy Lhar in our last episode. Brad Crowell 1:21  Yeah, we are. Lesley Logan 1:22  If you haven't listened to that interview, you should, you could pause this now and hear what I sound like, not with a sinus infection. And then, if you're new, you'll be like, this girl's voice sucks. I can't stand it. And then you'll stick it out. Brad Crowell 1:33  Yeah. Lesley Logan 1:34  You'll stick it out. Brad Crowell 1:34  Stick it out. You will— Lesley Logan 1:35  I promise you—Brad Crowell 1:36  You'll do that we believe in you. Lesley Logan 1:38  I promise you, this is not this, too shall pass. What if someone's like, oh, my God, I loved her voice when she had the science affection, and now, when it's gone, like, ugh. Lesley Logan 1:50  Well, today is April 16, 2026 and it's National Healthcare Decisions Day. Huh? Interesting. Let's see where this goes.Brad Crowell 1:58  (Laughs)Lesley Logan 1:59  This day is observed every year on April 16, the day after tax day interesting as well. Are you aware that there are times you might need to make some decisions about your health care, but be incapacitated to make them? Oh, this is an interesting okay, I thought I felt like the health insurance companies, but this is about us—Brad Crowell 2:13  No. Lesley Logan 2:14  This is—Brad Crowell 2:14  This is about in personal health care decisions that we can make. Lesley Logan 2:17  This day is set aside to help you take care of those potential situations ahead of time is a day for patients or healthcare receivers to make known to health professionals the kind of adequate care they wish to receive and have those wishes respected and met. Well, whether they'll be respected and met, are different stories in the United States healthcare situation, but I do agree we Brad and I are supposed to have sat down his parents are going to annoy us until we do and actually, like, talk about our Do Not Resuscitate stuff and all that. Brad Crowell 2:44  Yeah. It's like, called advanced direction, or something—Lesley Logan 2:47  Directive?Brad Crowell 2:48  Direct, yeah, Advanced Directive. Maybe that's it. Yeah. So we've been on a healthcare tour, and we've been— Lesley Logan 2:53  We are using the insurance we pay for. Brad Crowell 2:57  We absolutely are—Lesley Logan 2:58  We are annoying the hell out of them. We are going to use every benefit they say we pay for. Brad Crowell 3:03  Well, it's also not like a fast, quick decision. We started doing this, like, I don't know, 18 months ago? Lesley Logan 3:09  Oh yeah, it says it's taken you 18 months to get the results you got today. Brad Crowell 3:13  I'm not even kidding, it's insane to me. Lesley Logan 3:15  (Laughs) There's nothing wrong with you. Brad Crowell 3:15  Yeah, they were like, hey, everything's good up there. Your brain. I'm like, well, that makes me feel good, but what the heck it took that long anyway? Yeah, it's been a it's been a whirlwind, and we've been learning a lot of things. Just like you have a last will and testament, you also need to have something called an, I'm looking up now to get the exact phrasing of it. But like, what the last will test—Lesley Logan 3:40  You have to do it when you, like, do surgeries and stuff like that. So you have to, you should talk with your partners and your families about your wishes. Brad Crowell 3:46  Yeah, it's called a living will, or an Advanced Directive. It's a legal document for healthcare that outlines your treatment preferences if you become incapacitated— Lesley Logan 3:56  Oh, I, let me just tell you, you guys want to go on a journey. Because I remember, I remember, oh, my God, what was her name? It's not in my head, because I'm on Dayquil, but when I grew up, I remember she was on the cover of every tabloid magazine, and her husband was made out to be this big villain because he wanted to pull the plug. Brad Crowell 4:14  Oh, in Florida, yeah. Lesley Logan 4:17  Oh, you guys want to, okay, you're listening to a podcast. Go to the You're Wrong About Series. Go all the way back to the beginning. They have what is that woman's Sherry? Sherry. It's coming. Tyvo. Sherry Tyvo. Sherry Livo? Sherry—Brad Crowell 4:33  Tyvan? Lesley Logan 4:33  No, Sherry Tyvo Brad Crowell 4:37  Coma case.Lesley Logan 4:38  In Florida in the 90s.Brad Crowell 4:43  Terry. T Y—Lesley Logan 4:44  Terri Schiavo! Brad Crowell 4:45  Schiavo. Lesley Logan 4:46  Not I had, oh my God!Brad Crowell 4:47  You did. You had it backwards. Lesley Logan 4:48  Woah! I had Sherry Tyvo. Brad Crowell 4:50  (Inaudible)Lesley Logan 4:50  And it's Terri Schiavo. You guys, the more Adderall I am, the more dislikes like I think I am. I think it's just showing that I am okay. So, Terri Schiavo, her, go listen to You're Wrong About. That husband was not the villain that the tabloids made him out to be, and her family made it out to be, and then the Bush Administration got involved, became this whole Supreme Court thing. And let me just tell you, they, people in this country will keep you on life support against your will. It happened to the black woman Atlanta who was forced to stay, this happened in the last year. Her family was forced to keep her on life support because she was six months pregnant. Then they made her stay on life support until the baby was viable, to live without her at the time we're recording this, that baby is still in the NICU cannot survive on its own. So we need laws that protect people, and then we need advanced directives, because what we don't want is the government getting involved. That's what you don't want. I mean that this is not a very uplifting conversation. So go (Laughs)Brad Crowell 5:52  Let's, let's, let's shift back to how we can take care of this for yourself, like today's about making a decision for yourself. So there's a couple different things that you can do. You can, you know, if you have been meaning to make that doctor's appointment, just do it today's the day do it. Set aside a little bit of time today to, like, actually get the ball rolling. Because the problem, like, I know what the problem is. The problem is that it never is fast. You call, it's freaking voicemail. Like, like, nothing seems to flow. And so you have to call back 10 times. I literally had to drive across the street to this doctor's office two times to schedule my fucking appointment. It's insane. So I understand how frustrating that can be, but if you don't start now, it will never happen. Lesley Logan 6:33  Well, you won't have you won't have the team in place when you need them. And I will say, like in our journey of making sure that we have a team of healthcare professionals that are local, I have been able to find doctors that actually give a fuck, like my my gynecologist, who does my my hormone treatment in Vegas. She gives such a fuck that I have a breast doctor. That breast doctor has me on an MRI next week, and then in six months, I'm mammogram, and that's where I'm at until and then she'll and then she's gonna get me to the plastic surgeon to talk about my options. Like they will help advocate for you if you really do advocate for yourself. Like I found, like, it's kind of amazing when you get into it. Now, do I have what I complained when I said, I hate this imaging place. She's like, just drive there and make the appointment. It's faster. And I was like, are you kidding me? But it is. She's like, it's just fast, it's just the way it has to go. I know in the year of our Lord 2026, but it is what it is. And here's another trick for your doctor's office. Call billing, billing. Billing always answers. Brad Crowell 7:32  Billing always answers. Lesley Logan 7:33  So my gynecologist, before I leave. I always say, when you want to see me again, because I'm just gonna book it on my way out, because that's the best thing. And she's like, it is the best thing. I said, oh, you want to what the other hack is, it's just like, is? And she's like, what I said, my assistant calls billing, they always answer. And she goes, oh my God. She's like, you are crazy, but she loves me. So what I highly recommend take the steps it becomes, it's like, part of your adulting life. Pick an hour every week to do adulting, and you'll be glad you did, because things will happen and you're not going to want to be up the creek without a paddle. Brad Crowell 8:02  Yeah, you're not going to be up the Advanced Health Care Directive without a paddle. I was just poking around, and there is a very interesting free service provider that will do Last Will and Testament, Revocable Living Trust, Advanced Health Care Directive, Power of Attorney, and it's called freewill.com. Lesley Logan 8:24  That's crazy. Brad Crowell 8:25  They do not sponsor us, but I think it's pretty amazing. And they actually have, I was just poking around, they actually have, like, a guided for last will and testament. They have a guided will maker that covers all 50 states. Lesley Logan 8:37  You know who I need to interview. I interview a will maker. How do we be it till we see it in this Advanced Directive? Like— Brad Crowell 8:43  That'll be cool. Lesley Logan 8:43  What is that like? What are all the things I need to know? What should be in my will? Who should not be in my will? You know all that stuff.Brad Crowell 8:50  And well. And then FreeWill also has for the advanced directive of healthcare stuff. They have a free one that's also guided through all the all the states. So they, they seem to have their shit together. They're actually funded by— Lesley Logan 9:00  If you're in a different country I have no idea how to help you there, but—Brad Crowell 9:02  They're funded by a nonprofit or a charity, so they're totally free, pretty crazy. Lesley Logan 9:06  Wow. Brad Crowell 9:06  Yeah. Lesley Logan 9:07  Okay. The skeptic in me is like, who is funding this? Brad Crowell 9:10  (Laughs) Lesley Logan 9:10  The Peter Thiel—Brad Crowell 9:11  Yeah, right? Lesley Logan 9:12  (Laughs)Brad Crowell 9:13  About FreeWill, who we are— Lesley Logan 9:15  This is really what they're interested in. They're like, dying to know. Brad Crowell 9:18  Yeah, right? Lesley Logan 9:18  But you have to look up these things, because there is a nonprofit organization that's about, like, like, it sounds like it's about keeping kids from being online too early, but really, it's actually owned by meta, and their whole thing is to get your kids information early, and so they can, I know, so you gotta, you gotta look at these things you don't know. Now, I sound like a tin hat person, but you gotta look. Brad Crowell 9:41  Yeah, so they have nonprofit partners. It doesn't. It's not really that clear, but—Lesley Logan 9:45  Use it your own risk. Brad Crowell 9:46  We'll figure that out. You know.Lesley Logan 9:47  You, you know, be thoughtful. All right. Well, that's that at least gives you an actual step to be it till you see it in your advanced directive. And I know it comes after tax day. And look, no one likes taxes. But the reality is, is, if you vote in your primaries for the people that you think will to put your tax dollars to work the way you want. You have a better chance of getting that in the major part in November. So go vote. Primaries are happening all over the place right now as we speak, and so please go take care of that. Okay. Brad Crowell 10:17  1,000% Lesley Logan 10:18  Yes! Lesley Logan 10:19  So important.Lesley Logan 10:19   I know. Brad Crowell 10:20  All right, let's shift gears here. So coming up next, we got spring training happening in May, May 12 through 17th. So if you want to do Pilates at home, we're going to be going upside down in a bunch of different ways, with some really fun classes led by all the OPC team. And if you want information about that, it's probably already available for you to jump into— Lesley Logan 10:39  Oh yeah, you can sign up right now.Brad Crowell 10:40  But go to opc.me/events, opc.me/events. Also eLevate 2027 we have only a few spots left. I think it's possible that they're already sold out. But if you were really interested in a deep dive of classical Pilates with Lesley, it's a nine month mentorship program for certified Pilates teachers. We're going to be kicking it off in January next year. Learn more about that at lesleylogan.co/elevate. Lesleylogan.co/elevate. And you and I can hop on a call. We'd love to explain more about it with you. And then finally, we have summer tour coming up. Lesley Logan 11:14  I know that's so crazy. It's going it's a fast. Brad Crowell 11:16  it's a bit ahead of schedule here. That's in August. Lesley Logan 11:19  If it's in August, we open the doors in May. Brad Crowell 11:21  So that's exciting. We can't wait. It's gonna be awesome this year. We have a different route. I was just reviewing it with the team. We're going to be going, like, directly across the country, straight across all the way to Tennessee and back. So we're doing, like, a big, long oval in the middle of the country, hitting—Lesley Logan 11:35  We're not going to go up into the Michigan?Brad Crowell 11:37  We're not I was, I was—Lesley Logan 11:39  We lied to everybody. Brad Crowell 11:40  We lied to everyone last week and the week and the week before. Yeah, 100% we are hitting Dallas, though we're gonna catch that on the way back. Lesley Logan 11:46  Okay, I feel like a little sad for our Chicago Michiganders, you know. Brad Crowell 11:52  Yeah, I definitely—Brad Crowell 11:53  All those people. Brad Crowell 11:54  Well, we were just there in September in Chicago.Lesley Logan 11:56  I know, but it's not. We weren't in Minneapolis. Brad Crowell 11:59  We will work it out. We'll work it out. But this tour is going across the country, and, yeah, but, but come join us if you're able to, you know, find out all the information at opc.me/tour. Lesley Logan 12:08  I'm really excited! I realize I didn't sound as excited as I am. I'm just, I like, I had it in my head that we were, like, doing the middle, and we're doing a different middle. Lesley Logan 12:18  We are doing the middle.Lesley Logan 12:19   It wasn't clear. I wasn't clear— Brad Crowell 12:20  Yeah it's a different middle—Lesley Logan 12:21  I manifested the wrong oval. Brad Crowell 12:23  (Laughs)Lesley Logan 12:23  Okay, noted for next time. Well, before we get into the episode, what is the question of the week? Lesley Logan 12:30  Yeah, so, okay, this is from advocate_pilates on Instagram. She asked, Hey, Lesley, what mat do you use? Does it have good grip, and do you use it for Mat Pilates? Yeah, yeah. So I don't I have a mat that's just for Pilates, and I have a mat that's for yoga, and that's intentional. They are two different practices. They require two different needs. So I use a contrology mat for Pilates. It has a firm density, which doesn't mean it's hard as a rock. It's actually quite great for when you roll on it, you don't have to worry about, like, touching the floor or anything like that, but it's firm enough to do plank so your wrists don't have any issues, and shoulders have any issues. And we have an incredible affiliate link that you can use to get a discount on that mat as handles. Brad Crowell 13:11  It's opc.me/foldingmat, foldingmat. Lesley Logan 13:16  And as far as, like, good grip, I'm imagining you mean on the floor. And so what I would say is, like, I you probably would put a pad down if you had hardwood floors, because there is, like, some metal on the bottom that you don't want to scratch your hardwood floors, and that would keep it from sliding around. Pretty much any mat. You should all be mindful of stepping on mats on hardwood floors, because a lot of mats will slip around. So even if they have good grip with your skin. They always have good grip on the hardwood floors. We have tile and we have a rug. So it doesn't slide around on our tile. It doesn't slide around our rugs. It is a heavy duty. Brad Crowell 13:49  I mean, it's, it weighs like, you know, 20 pounds. Brad Crowell 13:52  Oh, yeah. Brad Crowell 13:53  It's not light, yeah. It's not like a, it's not a, this is not a yoga mat.Lesley Logan 13:56  No, no, no. So Dan, so I it is an investment. But to me, your mat practice is something you're going to do forever, and it's something, well, this mat, you'll buy one, and you'll have it forever, and there's that. So that's what's really great. Versus my yoga mat.Brad Crowell 14:09  Buy one get that one forever,Lesley Logan 14:11  Get one forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Versus my yoga mats that I inevitably have to replace even every 10 years because they start to just fall apart, Yep, yeah.Brad Crowell 14:21  Well, if you have a question, ping us. Let us know. Send us a text. 310-905-5534, or, you know, and easier is go to be it pod.com/questions we can leave us either a win or a question. We are looking forward to getting those from you so we can celebrate your wins on Fuck Yeah Friday, fuck yeah. Stick around. We'll be right back. We're gonna start chatting about Billy Lhar.Brad Crowell 14:46  All right, let's talk about Billy Lahr. Billy is the creator and host of the Mindful Midlife Crisis podcast and a Certified Mindfulness Meditation Teacher with a background in education and behavior change. He spent over two decades working in education, including Leadership roles before stepping away in 2021 since then, Billy's focused on coaching and consulting while living and working internationally. Definitely describes himself as a nomad. He also facilitates the Jump Start, Jump Start Conversation Series, a free weekly conversation space that's relaxed and collaborative, where coaches often join to connect with peers and share perspectives without the pressure of performing. We're gonna put the link for that in the signup notes below. So if you're interested in that, if that's something that you know you want, like a support group kind of vibe or just a hangout community, sesh, you know, go check that out.Lesley Logan 15:31  Yeah, I think this is really fun. I love that. He said he's not a fan of getting out of your comfort zone to grow. I think that's great. It's like— Brad Crowell 15:40  He said, fuck that. I've been working hard to get into my comfort zone.Lesley Logan 15:42  Yeah, I resonate with that. Because, like, so many of us are, like, trying to figure out who we are. And so, like, it's kind of hard to, like, figure who you are and then get out of your comfort zone if you don't who you are. And but he said to be cautious when we get into the complacency zone. Brad Crowell 15:56  Yeah, I thought that was a cool term—Lesley Logan 15:57  I think that's, I think that that's really, we see that happen all the time with people who teach Pilates, like, sometimes they just get like, they're just like, going through the motions. And, you know, they it's not that they lost their zest for it, but something kind of happened along the way. Maybe they were restricted in too many ways, and they're just like, okay, I'm just gonna do this. But there's no it's okay to be in your comfort zone. Just notice, if you're in your complacency zone, what a great thing. He also suggested, like expanding your life from within, rather than forcing yourself into discomfort from the outside. And I mean, I think, look, here's the deal. We do understand that, like diamonds are made from pressure, and stressing your bones is how you make healthy bones, and stressing your muscles is how you make healthy muscles, like all that stuff is very, very true, but I do think that some people are constant, like, like, they're constantly putting themselves into experiences that maybe is too much, that they're going like, you're doing too much working out, or you're doing too much stress on the bones, and so you're never actually reaping the rewards and the benefits of those things. And so he actually likened it to you you stretch your comfort zone, like pizza dough from the inside. Brad Crowell 17:04  Yeah, I thought that was really interesting. I like the vision, he said. He said, Only heathens pull your pizza dough. You have to press it from the middle. You got to press it from the inside to expand your pizza dough.Lesley Logan 17:14  Yeah, that's why. But I think that just goes—Brad Crowell 17:16  Before we got talking with pizza zone. I want to just define complacency zone, because, you know, comfort zone versus complacency zone, Comfort, he's his argument is that it's okay to be in your comfort zone, but you can get complacent once you get there. And I look, I was just thinking about it, it's like a stagnant place. It's where you're stuck, you know, and you're you're also, it's not just that you're stuck, but you're also, like, unwilling to change. You are resisting change, right? And you're relying on familiar, outdated routines. So, you know, I think that there's definitely a difference between being in the comfort zone and being in a complacency zone. But I do like this the analogy of, like, stretching like a pizza dough, you know?Lesley Logan 17:54  Yeah, I do too. Pilate is all about moving from your center outward. And I also think, like, sometimes people are easy to just go, Well, I'm just gonna change the outside. I'm gonna change from the outside in versus the inside out. Brad Crowell 18:05  Yeah. Yeah.Lesley Logan 18:06  Because a lot of the things you get marketed to are, like, outside, exterior, like, you know, what do you call it? Like external things or physical things? It's not necessarily like getting to know who you are. And so I think that there's something about, you know, it's not, I don't think he's advocating that you just like, sit around in your comfy couch and just like, chill out. But I do think it goes back to like, how we coach studios, like, we want your business to be a little boring, not that you're complacent, but that it's predictable, right? That that it's okay to be in a comfortable place with your business, that it's predictable in its seasons, you'll still have to keep learning. There'll still be new tools to know. There's still going to be things out there that are going to stress you in a different way, but you don't have to find new ways to challenge yourself and get outside your comfort zone all the time. You can. You can actually have some predictability there, as long as you're not complacent. I like it.Brad Crowell 18:53  Yeah. So, you know, when he was talking about pushing back against negative, this idea of being selfish, I was laughing so hard, because we've been talking about this for a long time, that self-care isn't selfish, and I really loved that we're not the only one talking about it. He said, there's not necessarily something wrong with being selfish if you've been overly selfless, right? Like, because I think we get into this, you two are really digging in, you know? And he's saying, you know, we, we think that when we're selfless, we're quote, unquote correct or right, and then when we are selfish, we're wrong, right. And what he was saying is, like, those are both actual extremes. Yeah, you know, what if we were grounded or self centered? Or, what if we focus about centered self, not like, in a negative way, but like, how do we— Lesley Logan 19:49  I know, so—Brad Crowell 19:50  How can we be both of those things instead of like, one or the other?Lesley Logan 19:53  I know, I think, like, because self centered has such a negative connotation, but like, a centered self is, like, whelmed, right? Like—Lesley Logan 19:59  Yeah. Lesley Logan 20:00  So if, like, selfless and self-ish are overwhelmed and underwhelmed, right, then centered self would be whelmed, right?Brad Crowell 20:07  It'd be right in the middle and and that allows you to protect yourself, you know, to put yourself first in some situations and then in others still, of course, you know, serve others, and that's good. But—Lesley Logan 20:20  We have, we have a series coming out about like, giving yourself permission to become whatever it is that you want to be. And there's actually, like, this term called the permission gap that I get into in the episode series that I created. And it's actually all because the way society is is it raises women to feel that they are selfish if they prioritize themselves first, yeah, and so they must care for everyone else's needs ahead of their own, and then they can care for themselves. But there's no time after doing all that—Brad Crowell 20:49  That's, that's just illogical. It's not sustainable. Lesley Logan 20:52  Right. Brad Crowell 20:53  What, what ends up happening is, you're burnt out? Lesley Logan 20:55  Yeah. Brad Crowell 20:55  Yeah. Brad Crowell 20:55  There's a reason why. Like, speaking of Healthcare Advocacy Day, there is a reason why you can actually pay for some way that your health insurance pays someone to take care of you, because it is impossible for someone, or most people, in your life, to take off of work to care for you. There's a reason why we have home health aides, right? Because we—Brad Crowell 21:15  Yeah.Lesley Logan 21:15  We do live in a world where like you can't just like care for other people all the time at the expense of your own self?Brad Crowell 21:22  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the that's the key. That's true. Well, you know, anyway, I just thought they were great topics. So stick around. We'll be right back. We got some really fun BE IT action items from Billy Lhar as well. So we'll be right back.Brad Crowell 21:36  Alright, so finally, let's talk about those BE IT action items, what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your conversation with Billy Lhar. He said he rejects the standard social question of, like, what do you do? And I found this really intriguing, because I love that what do you do is an open ended question, and I'm always interested, I asked that's exactly the question that I ask, what do you do? Because what people how they respond to that question tells me a lot, because when they turn around and say, what do I do? I say, I sleep a lot, or I play video games or, you know, but what they're implying with the question is, what do you do for work? So that's kind of interesting to me, but I loved that he like, he's like, no, screw that. Because people always answer with what do they do for work, which is, is boring. And I thought that was—Lesley Logan 22:22  Not what I do for work, but, you know, but other people are boring. (Laughs)Brad Crowell 22:26  No, but he. here's the thing, effectively, he doesn't want to talk about what he does for work, because he said, he said, I was an English teacher. That's boring, you know. So, you know, what he started doing instead was asking people different questions, and he said they often were like, like shocking or eye opening, or like, whoa, you're we don't even know each other, and you're asking me this kind of question. And he said he the question he likes to leave with is, what are 10 roles that you play in your life, 10 roles that you play in your life, right?Lesley Logan 22:56  Yeah, yeah. I think I would make it three. I feel like I don't want to sit there long enough (inaudible)—Brad Crowell 23:01  First five are always the same. What are your 10 roles? I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm a husband. Whatever. He said, It's always that crap. But then once they get through that crap, then they have to tell you something interesting about themselves. What like because they run out of they run out of the obvious things. So then they think about it, and then they have to tell you something. So that's, I think that might be part of why it's 10. He argues that a person's value and interest lie in the various roles that they play outside of those standard things. Like, I'm a paddle boarder. I'm this, I'm a, you know, like, I'm a, I'm a long haul driver for when we go on tour. I'm a I sit behind a booth. I'm a boother. (Laughs)Lesley Logan 23:44  (Laughs)Brad Crowell 23:47  Just making shit up here. He said, he said, also, you know, it helps, because you're not just one thing in your life, and so it like battles complacency when you're when, when you're engaging people on these other things that they're excited about. So—Lesley Logan 24:02  Yeah, I think that's cool, I guess, I guess you're right. You have to go to 10. That's just a big question. If I don't know if I want to talk to that person for that long. Brad Crowell 24:10  Yeah, I feel like that makes sense.Lesley Logan 24:11  He's clearly interested in people, and I'm like, I you know, we can go. Brad Crowell 24:15  What about you? Lesley Logan 24:16  I, okay, so he said, follow your passion is complete and utter nonsense. Brad Crowell 24:21  (Laughs)Lesley Logan 24:21  I think this is so funny. Brad Crowell 24:23  I liked his logic here. I thought this was pretty awesome actually. Lesley Logan 24:26  He said, and I think this is helpful, because, like, people are always like, what am I passionate about? Like, what's my hobby? Like this—Brad Crowell 24:31  Yeah, what should I do? Lesley Logan 24:32  What should I do for like, passion is not a starting point. Passion is a byproduct of this formula. Step one, figure out what you are good at and your strengths. So we have had many a strength finder type coach on here. Oh yeah, so you can go talk to any of them. They are so many. From day one of this podcast, there's been so many. And then he said, jumps he has— Brad Crowell 24:54  He's got a workbook. Lesley Logan 24:54  He's a workhouse, workbook called Jump Start Your Midlife Workbook, and you could take that. So that's part of step one. Got to figure out what you're good at, what are your strengths? Step two, what are you curious about, and how can you leverage those skills and those strengths to learn more? So there's a Venn diagram I'm imagining. This is how I picture it, your skills, your strengths, and what you're curious about. And then dude in the middle, there's like you. And then you take that to find a community. So find people you can connect with, and they'll help you. That will help you identify your purpose. Because even if you don't like them, you'll go, I don't like that. That's not my purpose. And then in then, if you want to turn that purpose into a passion, you just multiply that by consistency, discipline, patience and self-compassion. So then you you put, you know, fuel to that fire.Brad Crowell 25:38  Yeah, and I think that he emphasized the last two and that the patience and self-compassion— Lesley Logan 25:45  Oh yeah. Brad Crowell 25:45  So like when you want to turn something that you're good at into your passion, he said, you need to multiply it by consistency, discipline, patience and self-compassion. And he said, most people, we've all heard you know consistency, persistent and consistent, be persistent and consistent, you know, which, which obviously also means discipline. But he said, we always skip the patience and self-compassion part of it. Lesley Logan 26:10  Yeah.Brad Crowell 26:11  Because you're gonna fail and it's also not gonna happen overnight, whatever it might be. Lesley Logan 26:15  Yep.Brad Crowell 26:15  You know.Lesley Logan 26:16  Yep. I agree. I think radical self-compassion is important.Brad Crowell 26:21  Radical self-compassion.Lesley Logan 26:22  Yes. Brad Crowell 26:23  I dig it.Lesley Logan 26:23  Yes. Just like radical responsibility. That's my right, my favorite phrase right now, I want more people to take it. Um, you guys, I'm Lesley Logan and I'm Brad Crowell. This sinus infection will pass and, but not on next week's episode. So just a heads up. We got one more and, but we're working on it. You know we are, and I appreciate your patience and the self-compassion I'm having for myself and the compassion you're having for me. Send his episode, or this one to a friend who needs to hear it. Send your be it pod wins and and your questions into beitpod.com What does it beitpod.com/questions Yeah. Send them there. And until next time, be it till you see it. Brad Crowell 26:56  Bye for now. Lesley Logan 26:58  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod. Brad Crowell 27:40  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell. Lesley Logan 27:45  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co. Brad Crowell 27:49  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi. Lesley Logan 27:57  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals. Brad Crowell 28:00  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.  Brad Crowell 28:13  All right, let's talk about Billy Lhar. Billy is the creator and host of the Mindfulness, Mindful Midknife (inaudible).Lesley Logan 28:18  (Laughs)Brad Crowell 28:18  (Inaudible). Starting over.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On this episode we have on Brian from Jet Fuel Artistry.We talked about how kids keep you humble, teaching your kids to say truth but nicely, being Poppa Brian to his girlfriend's twin daughters, having a son with autism, spending a lot of time at chuck e cheese with his son, post partum depression, depression, finding out his was bipolar and getting medicated correctly, going to therapy, mental health and his time in artist management and what started his journey with that.Brian says multiple times in this episode if you're a dad and you're experiencing depression, or need someone to talk to about post partum life he's here for you.  You aren't alone, it's rarely talked about, and if you feel like you need help, it's really important to know you aren't alone in it.Send us Fan MailFollow us on Facebook and Instagram and TikTok YouTube. Look for new episodes of The Imperfect Dads Podcast every Monday and Thursday.This podcast is part of the Never A Phase Network, follow them on instagram at @neveraphasenetwork and check out their podcasts like Emo Kids Anonymous  Wasting Time Podcast Certified Fangirl and The Ska Mailman

A child can be brilliant and struggling at the exact same time. In this conversation, I talk with Julie Skolnick about what it really means to be twice exceptional, or as she so beautifully puts it, gifted and distractible. Julie explains why giftedness is often the misunderstood part of the profile, not the diagnosable challenges beside it. We unpack her three-layer cake of giftedness: asynchronous development, perfectionism, and overexcitabilities, and talk about how those traits can live right alongside ADHD, autism, dyslexia, anxiety, slow processing speed, and other learning or emotional differences. If you have ever looked at a child and thought, "But they're so smart, so why is this so hard?" this episode is for you. Julie and I also talk about what support actually looks like when we stop seeing only the gifted side or only the struggle side and start looking at the whole child. We get into personal connection, reframing behavior, collaborative advocacy, and why the child who looks oppositional or disengaged may actually be overwhelmed, perfectionistic, dysregulated, or trying very hard to protect a fragile sense of self. This is a rich, practical conversation for parents, educators, and anyone trying to understand a child who does not fit inside standard expectations. Key Takeaways Giftedness is often the misunderstood part of 2e. Many people understand the diagnosis more easily than they understand what giftedness actually looks like in daily life. Twice exceptional does not mean "smart plus one challenge." These kids often have multiple co-occurring traits, diagnoses, learning differences, and emotional needs at the same time. Asynchronous development is a core part of the profile. A child may be far ahead in one area and significantly younger in another, which creates confusion for adults and anxiety for the child. Perfectionism can look like underachievement. Sometimes not trying feels safer than trying and risking visible failure. Overexcitabilities matter. Intellectual, emotional, imaginative, psychomotor, and sensory intensity can all shape how a child learns, reacts, connects, and copes. Looking at only one side of the Venn diagram leads to bad support. If we focus only on giftedness, we may shame the child. If we focus only on the struggle, we may underestimate them. Personal connection is the flagship strategy. Before most interventions work, the child needs to feel seen, understood, and safe with the adult in front of them. Reframing behavior changes everything. What looks like avoidance, disrespect, or laziness may actually be overwhelm, perfectionism, dysregulation, or a mismatch between the task and the child's profile. Strengths can help shore up struggles. Interests, passions, and areas of giftedness are often the best bridge into confidence, engagement, and learning. Adults need a pause button too. Supporting 2e kids asks a lot of the grownups around them, and self-regulation is part of effective parenting, teaching, and advocacy. About Julie Skolnick Julie F. Rosenbaum Skolnick, M.A., J.D., is the founder of With Understanding Comes Calm, LLC, the author of Gifted and Distractible, and a passionate keynote speaker who works directly with parents of gifted and distractible children, mentors twice exceptional adults, trains educators, and advises professionals on how to bring out the best in their 2e students and clients. Julie's work is known for helping people feel deeply seen while also giving them practical language, strategies, and support. She offers courses, memberships, and book studies for parents, educators, and 2e adults, and publishes the free weekly Gifted and Distractible Newsletter. Julie and her husband are raising three twice exceptional kids who keep them on their toes and laughing hard. About Your Host, Gabriele Nicolet I'm Gabriele Nicolet, toddler whisperer, speech therapist, parenting life coach, and host of Complicated Kids. Each week, I share practical, relationship-based strategies for raising kids with big feelings, big needs, and beautifully different brains. My goal is to help families move from surviving to thriving by building connection, confidence, and clarity at home. Complicated Kids Resources and Links

This is a memorial republish. Casey Bard, founder of Tacticalories Seasoning Co., died in early April 2026 after a three-year fight with Stage 4 colorectal cancer. Casey told the people close to him that when he was gone, he wanted them to tell stories about him. This is Casey in his own words, recorded in March 2021. Casey started Tacticalories with $500 and mixed his first batch in his bathtub. By 2020 the company had grown 4x. We talked about building a brand around a personal Venn diagram of interests, why he drops one product at a time instead of seasonal collections, the 2020 manufacturing chaos, and why he refused to dropship, refused coupon codes, and refused to take outside money. GoFundMe: https://www.gofundme.com/f/casey-is-choosing-to-continue-the-fight LINKS Tacticalories: https://tacticalories.com Casey Bard: https://caseybard.com GoFundMe (supporting Casey's family): https://www.gofundme.com/f/casey-is-choosing-to-continue-the-fight Struggle Well (documentary about Casey's story): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=908HdjZFyjk

Fulfillment is not a prize you earn by checking the right boxes. It is a feeling that shows up when your life matches who you actually are.We use a simple idea to guide the whole conversation: imagine a Venn diagram where one circle is your values and the other circle is how you live day to day. The overlap is peace, meaning, and that grounded sense of “my life fits me.”We walk through practical values discovery exercises you can do with a notebook in under an hour. When you know your highest values, your decisions get simpler, your goals get cleaner, and the way you spend your time starts supporting the life you want to live.Listen, do the exercises, and share this with someone you care about.The Values Bridge TestText Me Your Thoughts and IdeasSupport the showBrought to you by Angela Shurina  Behavior-First, Executive, Leadership and Optimal Performance Coach 360, Change Leadership & Culture Transformation Consultant  

David Matalon grew up in Great Neck, outside of New York City. He's always been interested in tech, way back in the early days of PCs, DOS, Windows and even Novell. In fact, he was the high school kid with an IT Consulting business on the side (yes, he wore a beeper to school). He graduated from NYU, and started his first company Offyx. Outside of tech, he is married with 4 kids. When asked about what he does for fun, he says that enjoys the all compassing nature of work and family life.David's whole career has been centered around helping companies deliver distributed applications. In most of recent history, virtual desktops or VDI has been the de facto solution for businesses, with lots of issues and pains baked in. David and his team heard the cries of their customers, and decided to build a better solution - one, with a blue border.This is the creation story of Venn.SponsorsUnblockedTECH DomainsMezmoBraingrid.aiLinkshttps://www.venn.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmatalon/Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Master the $500B Cloud Marketplace Engine Subscribe to our Newsletter:https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this compelling discussion, Vince Menzione sits down with Dexter Hardy, founder of Ntegral and the visionary behind Spark, to deconstruct the massive transformation happening within the cloud ecosystem. Dexter shares his journey of evolving from a traditional systems integrator to a marketplace powerhouse with over 300 solutions and customers in 100 countries, revealing the “Marketplace Operating System” that drives global sales without a massive headcount. They dive deep into the Spark GTM methodology, discussing how companies can bridge the gap between building a solution and actually driving “Get It Now” transactions while navigating the $500 billion committed cloud-spend landscape. From the nuances of multi-party private offers to the critical role of AI in becoming a “frontier firm,” this episode provides a high-level masterclass for any partner looking to turn the marketplace into their most effective revenue stream. https://youtu.be/VLkkuHPpYuk?si=x03Odt2UsCjhtVf4 Key Takeaways The cloud marketplace represents a potential $500 billion in committed spend that partners cannot access without MAC-eligible, transactable solutions. Marketplace as a Service (MaaS) helps traditional SIs pivot to becoming SDCs or ISVs by providing a strategic roadmap for IP conversion. Successful marketplace strategy requires a “Marketplace Operating System” that aligns digital sales with your internal operations and business goals. The “Get It Now” economy allows for 24-hour global sales and lead generation without the need for traditional manual email or phone chains. Becoming a “Frontier Firm” means combining human experience with AI to do things faster, better, and more efficiently than the competition. Co-selling is evolving beyond just the hyperscalers to include rich, multi-party private offers involving resellers and distributors. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags: Integral, Spark, Marketplace as a Service, MaaS, Marketplace Operating System, Marketplace Strategy, Transactable Offers, Get It Now button, SI to ISV pivot, SDC, Microsoft Marketplace, AWS Marketplace, Google Cloud Marketplace, IP Co-sell, MAC eligible, Multi-party private offers, REO, Reseller enabled offers, Cloud Committed Spend, Frontier Firm, AI agents, Spark GTM methodology, Marketplace Optimization, Digital Sales Flywheel. Transcript: Dexter Hardy Audio Episode [00:00:00] Dexter Hardy: AI in the hands of someone who has no idea what they’re doing is just a, it’s a faster way to failure, right? Yeah. ’cause they have, they [00:00:06] Vince Menzione: still don’t understand the concepts. [00:00:11] Vince Menzione: We just finished Ultimate Partners Winter Retreat here in beautiful Boca to a sold out crowd. Today I’m joined by Dexter Hardy, the founder of Integral for a compelling discussion. Dexter, welcome back to the podcast. Great to be here, Vince. It’s [00:00:29] Dexter Hardy: always a pleasure. [00:00:30] Vince Menzione: It is so good to have you back in Boca. [00:00:33] Vince Menzione: Uh, we just wrapped up our ultimate partner executive winter retreat. We call it the Winter Retreat now. [00:00:39] Dexter Hardy: Yep. [00:00:39] Vince Menzione: It’s still February when this airs. It’ll probably be March or April. [00:00:43] Dexter Hardy: Okay. [00:00:43] Vince Menzione: But, um, yeah, the weather in the north has been, they’ve had a tough winter. [00:00:49] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. It’s been brutal [00:00:50] Vince Menzione: for, it’s been brutal. Even, even Atlanta where you are. [00:00:53] Vince Menzione: Had a little bit of winter this year as well. [00:00:54] Dexter Hardy: I was happy to get on the flight. Yeah. It was like 29 degrees the day out, so, [00:00:59] Vince Menzione: so, um, this is your second time Yeah. On Ultimate Partner. And we’ve been friends for, we’re just talking about this. You’ve been to every single one of our Ultimate Partner events. [00:01:10] Vince Menzione: Nine events, [00:01:12] Dexter Hardy: yep. [00:01:12] Vince Menzione: Three times here in Boca and then in other cities like Dallas and Las Colinas. Seattle, Seattle and Reston. Oh my goodness. And we’re back in Seattle again in May. So, uh, we’ve been, we’ve been busy. We’ve been busy. Both of us have [00:01:27] Dexter Hardy: Scott Myer [00:01:28] Vince Menzione: up and we’ve been, and we were introduced. We’ve been friends and worked together. [00:01:31] Vince Menzione: And so I would love to get caught up on you and Integral. [00:01:35] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:01:36] Vince Menzione: Um, the first time we sat down, we talked about Integral as a marketplace. Uh, customer base or, or, or vendor supporting the marketplace. [00:01:45] Dexter Hardy: Yep. [00:01:46] Vince Menzione: And you were, you’ve been, uh, showcased at Microsoft with the Marketplace organization. You’ve done some astounding things in terms of driving business without like a big sales force, you know, and driving marketplace sales, uh, to very high levels. [00:02:02] Dexter Hardy: Yep. [00:02:03] Vince Menzione: And, uh, and now you, I’ll call it a little bit of a twist and turn, but now. You’ve taken all the great learnings, and I’m probably sharing some of your thunder here, but you’ve taken all the great learnings that you’ve had in marketplace and your business [00:02:16] Dexter Hardy: mm-hmm. [00:02:16] Vince Menzione: And now you’re like looking at all these other companies, they’re probably trying to do the same thing and finding ways to help them. [00:02:21] Vince Menzione: So let’s, let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about where you’re going. [00:02:25] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. So, so thanks for that. And it’s always a pleasure to be, you know, in the room with you, especially on the podcast, uh, seeing it grow over the years. And, um, to kind of double click on. How did we get to where we are with, uh, spark Bi Integral? [00:02:40] Dexter Hardy: Um, it’s our marketplace as a service offering. Um, we [00:02:46] Vince Menzione: marketplace as a service. You get that? I just wanna make sure people are listening and watching. Get that. That’s a, that’s a new acronym for me. [00:02:53] Dexter Hardy: That’s a new one. But, but what we, how do we get there? So to your point, yes, we. We’re a, um, marketplace first organization looking at the digital sales leaned in heavily on marketplace. [00:03:08] Dexter Hardy: Um, and what we were doing internally was we created our marketplace operating system. Like literally, how do we run our business? How do we digitize, how do we get those, uh, how do we turn the marketplace into our 24 hour sales guy? Yeah. Taking all those lessons learned how you deal with the hyperscale or how do you understand, you know, the, the signals that’s happening in the market. [00:03:33] Dexter Hardy: Uh, coupling that with, because we’ve been a member of this wonderful organization and getting into the partner community ecosystem, we get asked a million times, I bet. What do you do? How do you do it? That’s help us understand marketplace and so what we. What we saw there was an opportunity to both lean into the challenges that other partners are facing. [00:04:00] Dexter Hardy: If you’re an SI that’s trying to pivot [00:04:02] Vince Menzione: yep, [00:04:03] Dexter Hardy: and be in the marketplace, you’re already established company, how do you create Transactable offers? How do we take the the marketplace opportunity and leverage AI and put our agents in the marketplace? Our aha moment was this is, this is an en enablement opportunity that we can get into and basically be the first ones in because we leaned into it, we understand it. [00:04:35] Dexter Hardy: What makes us different from the other companies is we actually use that methodology every day. [00:04:43] Vince Menzione: For those who maybe didn’t listen to the last podcast we did together, I know this story, but I want others to know the context of it. Tell us about your transformation to a marketplace firm. [00:04:54] Dexter Hardy: Okay, for sure. [00:04:56] Vince Menzione: Maybe the shorter version. [00:04:57] Dexter Hardy: The shorter version, [00:04:57] Vince Menzione: but I, I do know that there was some, you were in business for a long time before this became the business strategy. [00:05:03] Dexter Hardy: Yeah, so the shortened version business founded 2002, Microsoft partner for many years. Yep. 2020. Si. Si as an si. 2020 COVID. [00:05:16] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:05:16] Dexter Hardy: Consulting 2.0. [00:05:17] Dexter Hardy: How do you do what you do at scale for others? Taking your ip, converting it. We did that at 2020. Embraced the marketplace. We created our solutions, deploy them to the marketplace. The rest is history. We leaned in how [00:05:32] Vince Menzione: many solutions in the [00:05:33] Dexter Hardy: marketplace, over 300 solutions. I wanna [00:05:35] Vince Menzione: make sure people [00:05:35] Dexter Hardy: got that. [00:05:35] Dexter Hardy: Over a hundred, 300 [00:05:36] Vince Menzione: solutions. [00:05:37] Dexter Hardy: Over 300 solutions. Yeah. Uh, we have. Customers in over a hundred countries. I mean, and [00:05:42] Vince Menzione: yeah. [00:05:43] Dexter Hardy: You know, continuing to build and expand our customer base on a daily basis. And so, [00:05:48] Vince Menzione: and they’re, and they’re buying when you, while you sleep. I mean, we, we’ve known each other pretty well for a number of years. [00:05:54] Vince Menzione: And [00:05:54] Dexter Hardy: yeah, [00:05:54] Vince Menzione: you have customers like, um, I’ll throw out a number, like 25,000 customers, probably, maybe beyond that. And these customers are buying your solutions. All hours of the day and night, [00:06:06] Dexter Hardy: right? Yeah. I I love the get it now button in the marketplace. Literally all they have to do to work with us or transact with us is click on, get It Now, and that’s the transactable offer that everyone, there’s this mystique around. [00:06:19] Dexter Hardy: People are like, well, we don’t have any leads. We can, you know, our, we have an offer in the marketplace and nobody’s clicking on it. And I’m like, Hmm, [00:06:27] Vince Menzione: yeah, [00:06:27] Dexter Hardy: we can help you with that. Right? And so, um, you know, that’s how we. Our, our story with that, our background with that was it’s our 24 hour sales guy. We drive our campaigns, we align with the solution plays. [00:06:41] Dexter Hardy: We’re getting those clicks with, to your point, without this huge army of people. Yeah. And so now we’re saying from a marketplace strategic advisory, a lot of people were saying it earlier, like, you know, marketplace isn’t this adjacent thing to business. How do you strategically think about it as. Um, part of your business all up. [00:07:03] Dexter Hardy: How do you add that as a revenue stream, uh, for your organization? And yeah, there may be some changes that you need to make, you know, how do you incorporate the channel? How do you add in all of the things that you’re currently doing, but create that as a flywheel for this. Get it now economy. [00:07:22] Vince Menzione: So all the, I’m, I’m thinking out loud, like there’s probably a lot of people watching you up on stage at these events talking about how you evolved your company and grew it. [00:07:31] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:07:32] Vince Menzione: Going, that’s me. [00:07:33] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:07:33] Vince Menzione: That’s me. The old, the old version of you absolutely is them. [00:07:37] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:07:38] Vince Menzione: And they all, they all want help. [00:07:39] Dexter Hardy: They all, [00:07:40] Vince Menzione: everybody wants help in marketplace. [00:07:41] Dexter Hardy: Right. And [00:07:43] Vince Menzione: yeah. [00:07:43] Dexter Hardy: And, and to that end. Because I was them. I understand how their mind, it’s a mindset shift, right? You’re saying, okay, we have these traditional sales, we’re a systems integrator, we have all this ip, these, there are all these things that we can do. [00:07:57] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:07:58] Dexter Hardy: I don’t, how do we convert this to transact ability? How do we get our sales teams enabled to sell it? And I was, and my, my feedback and my response to that is, well, one, we have a service for that. It’s our marketplace advisor services. I’m sorry for the plug, but not sorry. [00:08:16] Vince Menzione: No, we’re, no, we’re gonna plug today as well. [00:08:18] Vince Menzione: Much as you want. [00:08:19] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:08:20] Vince Menzione: And then I think about this too, because a lot of these sis are developing, we’re just, uh, talking with Agua about MSPs, developing agents for their customers and then making ’em repeatable. [00:08:30] Dexter Hardy: Yep. [00:08:31] Vince Menzione: And so you have other sis that are creating AI tools and agents. Microsoft is created and the, and so has AWS and Google, they’ve created space in their marketplaces for agent AI tools. [00:08:44] Dexter Hardy: Yep. [00:08:45] Vince Menzione: And so now you’ve got all these companies that were traditional sis that are now becoming what we would call ISVs or, or SDCs. And they need help in getting these solutions to the marketplace. [00:08:57] Dexter Hardy: Absolutely. [00:08:58] Vince Menzione: So, so talk about what you’re doing with Spark. [00:09:00] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. So our concept with Spark is. When you look at enablement, so you’ll have platforms that are enablers and a lot of people will say, well, what makes Spark different? [00:09:12] Dexter Hardy: Why? Why you versus Tackle Or Sugar? [00:09:15] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:09:15] Dexter Hardy: Any of the other work span. Work span or any, they’re all friendlys to us because we’re meeting you where you are. Right. In order for you to use their platform, you gotta already have the solution together. [00:09:29] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:09:30] Dexter Hardy: Right. They can help you deploy. There’s Deploy. They are a deployment firm or [00:09:35] Vince Menzione: Right. [00:09:36] Dexter Hardy: Um, platforms We’re saying [00:09:38] Vince Menzione: they’re middleware in many respects. Correct. Between the, they’re, [00:09:41] Dexter Hardy: they’re integrated into the marketplace. They’re highly embedded into the systems behind it, and we’re saying what happens before that? I have no idea what solution to build. I have no idea how we’re gonna take advantage of Marketplace. [00:09:58] Dexter Hardy: How is Marketplace gonna change? Again, we had these conversations at dinner. Um, [00:10:04] Vince Menzione: yeah, [00:10:04] Dexter Hardy: all of the big players are saying, we have channel, we have our sales teams, we have all these things already. How does marketplace play into that for us? And so that Marketplace strategic advisory goes into it and says, here’s how. [00:10:19] Dexter Hardy: Right. We have a. Our Spark GTM methodology goes into how do those things play together? What are your KPIs or what are your business goals as an organization all up? And then we marry this, basically a Venn diagram of how we marry marketplace with your current objectives. Okay. To not just be this, uh, ubiquitous thing that’s kind of sitting over on the side, like, let’s just put it in marketplace because we need to, and nobody knows it’s there and nobody knows it’s there. [00:10:49] Dexter Hardy: It’s part of. Everything all up. Your messaging, your sales organization, your, um, documentation that you have for your organization. So now everyone understands, not just you as the, let’s say you’re an SI that you were, but you, the si with your agents and how that plays into your bigger value proposition. [00:11:10] Dexter Hardy: So take [00:11:10] Vince Menzione: us through the, go to the methodology you described the Spark methodology. [00:11:15] Dexter Hardy: Yep. So, um, a lot of people, when they think about. The methodology, you’ll say we’re a, we’re an si. I’m just going to use an example. You’re an si. How, how do I get somebody to click on my, my opportunity? How do I get somebody to understand what we have as a value proposition? [00:11:39] Dexter Hardy: And I’d say to people, well, there’s this, it’s part of the methodology. There’s product viability. Can you build something? Versus should you build something. Right. [00:11:50] Vince Menzione: Interesting. [00:11:51] Dexter Hardy: If you are, if you are out there today and you’re saying, I mean, everybody’s seeing Claude, the agents, you can, you can ask AI to build you pretty much anything. [00:12:00] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:12:00] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:12:01] Dexter Hardy: Now the question scary and that, that’s a, that, that introduces a new problem. But it’s, can you do it or should you do it? [00:12:08] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:12:09] Dexter Hardy: And and what I’ll tell people is part of our advisory, so the steps are. What is your North Star right now and what is the software that would enable you to get on that AI rocket ship to propel you even further with where you are? [00:12:27] Dexter Hardy: Those are the solutions that we would try to [00:12:29] Vince Menzione: Okay. [00:12:30] Dexter Hardy: That out, pull out of, uh, as part of that marketplace. Um, advisory Second, what partner or partner organizations are you a member of? Is it Microsoft? Is it the AWS? Is it, you know, Google Cloud? Google Cloud, what have you, and let’s say Microsoft. What are solution plays? [00:12:51] Dexter Hardy: What is Microsoft focused on? How does what you’re doing as an organization align with that go to market? Mm-hmm. Because now you have that jet power of what they’re, um, promoting along with your organization. [00:13:06] Vince Menzione: Nice. [00:13:07] Dexter Hardy: And then the final piece is, well, now that you’ve done that, how do I get it into market? [00:13:12] Dexter Hardy: How do I, uh, get people to click on it? And that’s where some of the secret sauce that I won’t divulge on this, [00:13:19] Vince Menzione: uh, [00:13:20] Dexter Hardy: but there is some secret sauce to getting the ICPs to lean in, getting the [00:13:25] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:13:25] Dexter Hardy: You know, you’re listing to light up inside of that. And so that’s. You know, that’s at a high level. That’s kind of how the marketplace, [00:13:32] Vince Menzione: I think what you’re alluding to, and I, I don’t wanna put words in your mouth, but I do think you’ve done a very good job on what I would call maybe digital marketing, maybe. [00:13:41] Vince Menzione: Would that be the right terminology? Yeah. To make your solutions discoverable, to make people understand that they’re out there and to lean in and be able to purchase them. [00:13:51] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:13:52] Vince Menzione: Which I think I would say that’s probably part of the secret sauce, probably of Spark. That is what you’re saying because a lot of organizations struggle here. [00:13:59] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:14:00] Vince Menzione: They put something in the marketplace and nothing ever happens with it. Even even big companies do that. They don’t know how to do it. [00:14:06] Dexter Hardy: So, so yeah. Without divulging the secret sauce, I had a gentleman ask me yesterday, um, during the conference, so how is this different from SEO? I said, good question. [00:14:20] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. Is is SEOS? Is, is SEO involved? Sure, but that’s not the final answer. Because you could do SEO, that doesn’t mean anybody. That just gets you, doesn’t mean anything. Doesn’t mean anything. And so. That’s why I keep going back to this methodology of really aligning it with, uh, what it is you’re trying to accomplish, who it is you’re trying to get to lean in, and then what is the value proposition? [00:14:42] Dexter Hardy: Because at the end of the day, Vince, I think even with any service, like I said, we did our first offerings with our R zero offerings and now we’re doing this. It’s what is the value, right? Um, it’s a hard. Thing to do to really wrap your brain around how your, how your business is going to change from, if you’re doing direct sales and you got your bag and you’re out there selling to now, you mean I don’t have to pick up the phone and call you? [00:15:15] Dexter Hardy: There’s not an email chain that goes out. It’s literally people are just clicking on Get it now to get it [00:15:21] Vince Menzione: and getting it. [00:15:22] Dexter Hardy: That’s a, that’s a mind shift change and that’s. To your point, there is some market, there is some marketing expertise that is required. [00:15:29] Vince Menzione: And we’ve also talked about, I know you and I went down a journey on the co-sell business [00:15:34] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:15:34] Vince Menzione: And how difficult it can be to get a, a seller from a Microsoft or a Google and Amazon involved, unless it’s, you know, a $10 million transaction, they don’t want to get involved. [00:15:45] Dexter Hardy: Right. [00:15:46] Vince Menzione: Uh, you really wanna reach the customer. Because you know, the hyperscalers is great. If you’re driving a ServiceNow or an ADO a big solution, it’s gonna be tens of millions of dollars. [00:15:56] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:15:57] Vince Menzione: But if you are an SI and you’re selling this as part of maybe a services offering, or you’re selling it as, you know, you’re just selling as a standalone. [00:16:04] Dexter Hardy: Right? [00:16:05] Vince Menzione: Um, you want as much eyeballs and transactions as possible and you’re not gonna get that just going co-selling. [00:16:12] Dexter Hardy: Right. And, and the other part of that I will say about co-sell. [00:16:17] Dexter Hardy: I think co-sell has gotten like a dirty rap or bad rap around it. Co-sell is with the hyperscaler, but it’s with other partners too. [00:16:28] Vince Menzione: Sure, [00:16:28] Dexter Hardy: right? Oh yeah, absolutely. So, um, being in the marketplace gives you the option of co-selling would, not just the hyperscaler, but co-selling with other orgs. And so now anytime that you’ve give, you’ve given yourself that X factor on top of your existing ability to deliver. [00:16:44] Dexter Hardy: That’s where you’re seeing the true power of marketplace. [00:16:47] Vince Menzione: And yesterday you were on stage with Jason Rook. [00:16:50] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:16:51] Vince Menzione: And this was part of the conversation. It was you, Jason Rook and Amit Sinha at, at uh, work Span. [00:16:58] Dexter Hardy: Mm-hmm. [00:16:58] Vince Menzione: And part of the conversation was around the, uh, reseller enabled offers. And I think what that’s somewhat of what you’re alluding to is that you have other wait routes to market channels to market. [00:17:10] Dexter Hardy: Right [00:17:11] Vince Menzione: through building other partnerships for co-selling. Yeah. That what you, you were alluding to. Yeah. [00:17:15] Dexter Hardy: So, so yeah, there, there are a million ways to, once you’re in, once you have a transactable offer, that’s when you get the magic unlocks. Right. You, the barrier to entry is being in marketplace with a transactable offer. [00:17:31] Dexter Hardy: And if you’re outside of that loop, again, the REO. You’re not available. Guess who? Guess who can’t do that? [00:17:39] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:17:40] Dexter Hardy: If you’re not in the marketplace, you can’t do that. [00:17:41] Vince Menzione: Can’t do that. [00:17:43] Dexter Hardy: Multi-party private offers can’t do that. ’cause you’re not in the marketplace. [00:17:47] Vince Menzione: No. [00:17:48] Dexter Hardy: Right. And so what we’re saying is think about all up, how you’re missing out on. [00:17:56] Dexter Hardy: All of these wonderful opportunities to, I think, I think the number got thrown out a couple of times. Jason ran away from it when you said it’s like a $300 billion number on, he [00:18:07] Vince Menzione: didn’t want, he didn’t, he didn’t want me sharing or he wasn’t, he, he didn’t want to, uh, what, what did he say? Validate that that was the right number, but $300 billion in potential cloud budgets. [00:18:21] Vince Menzione: That you could have access to. We know the number across the three hyperscalers is north of 500 billion. [00:18:27] Dexter Hardy: Yep. [00:18:27] Vince Menzione: It’s just that Microsoft doesn’t break out their numbers and make them public, and so we, you know, [00:18:32] Dexter Hardy: and, and [00:18:33] Vince Menzione: estimates. [00:18:33] Dexter Hardy: What I would tell everyone that’s listening, I would invite you to consider [00:18:37] Vince Menzione: Yeah, [00:18:38] Dexter Hardy: the following. [00:18:39] Dexter Hardy: If you’re not in the marketplace with a IP, co-sale or MAC eligible solution, you’re not eligible for that. [00:18:49] Vince Menzione: That’s right. [00:18:50] Dexter Hardy: Spend. And so is that worth it for you as an organization to say, yes, we need to figure out this and get involved with that? [00:19:01] Vince Menzione: So I’m an SI and I raise my hand. I’m like, Dexter, help me. [00:19:06] Vince Menzione: What happens next? [00:19:08] Dexter Hardy: I would say. Let me introduce you to my team. [00:19:12] Vince Menzione: I love it. I love it. [00:19:13] Dexter Hardy: Um, [00:19:14] Vince Menzione: and you’ve been building your team since, uh, we go back now four years, but like yeah. You, you’ve been growing your business, hired some incredible people in your [00:19:22] Dexter Hardy: team. Yeah, we have some rock stars on our team. I’m really, really happy with my team. [00:19:25] Dexter Hardy: Uh, you know, we’re still growing and it’s, it’s a wonderful thing to be in this economy and still growing. Yes. Um, and like I said, yes, we, I would introduce you to my team and my team would then help you, uh, through. The marketplace advisory. We can help you with the health check. We can do the strategic advisory, the alignment around, here’s what we’re doing. [00:19:47] Dexter Hardy: Another thing that I’ll go ahead and put in here, if you already have listings in the marketplace and people aren’t clicking on them, we have marketplace optimization as well. [00:19:58] Vince Menzione: I love that [00:19:59] Dexter Hardy: because we, again, that conversation comes up all the time. Yeah. We put, we, we invested in Marketplace and we have our listing out there. [00:20:08] Dexter Hardy: Nobody’s clicking on it. Well, we can help you with that too. [00:20:11] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:20:12] Dexter Hardy: Right, because to your point, it’s not just building an ar, arbitrarily writing something about it, putting it in marketplace. Right. That’s, that’s an arbitrary approach. We’re saying how do you turn those into a lead gen, revenue gen, um, operation arm of your business. [00:20:29] Vince Menzione: Nice. [00:20:29] Dexter Hardy: Which is what we call market marketplace operating system. [00:20:33] Vince Menzione: Marketplace operating. Okay. So we got another, I got another word I need to learn. Another acronym I need to learn. [00:20:38] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. You know, I [00:20:39] Vince Menzione: less, [00:20:40] Dexter Hardy: I’ve been around Microsoft too long, I guess. [00:20:42] Vince Menzione: Yes. I [00:20:42] Dexter Hardy: created all these, [00:20:45] Vince Menzione: so, um, just perspective could, because you’ve been in the marketplace since we talked about COVID. [00:20:50] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:20:51] Vince Menzione: Really. So that’s five years. Five [00:20:52] Dexter Hardy: years. Yeah. [00:20:54] Vince Menzione: Um, talk about how it’s changed from your perspective. I mean, I, we talk about it all. We talk, we have leaders like Jason and Cyril comes here and. Does, uh, speaks about some changes going on, but tell us your perspective on how it’s evolved. [00:21:08] Dexter Hardy: Um, so the marketplace is always evolving really. [00:21:12] Dexter Hardy: Um, from, from when we got in early in the marketplace. Uh, REO didn’t exist. Multi, multi-party. Private offers didn’t exist. The amount of committed spend on hyperscalers little was, wasn’t there. Um, the seller, the field sellers within the hyperscalers. Marketplace wasn’t part of their thing. So, um, you know, when that, when that frontier, not just that, not to confuse terms when that frontier opened up Yeah. [00:21:43] Dexter Hardy: Like there were, you know, it, it really wasn’t a clear path on how do you channel, how do you do sales, how do you integrate with the team? Um, and now there’s a lot more options, uh, for organizations that want to keep some of those motions together. Disti are now able to get involved with the conversation. [00:22:05] Dexter Hardy: They were kinda locked out for a while, but now with the s and the multi-party private offers and disti are in the conversation, [00:22:12] Vince Menzione: it’s lit up the disti like crazy. Yeah. In fact, we were, we just spent time with a few and some friends there and [00:22:19] Dexter Hardy: yeah. [00:22:19] Vince Menzione: Yeah, it’s been wild to watch this. [00:22:21] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:22:21] Vince Menzione: We haven’t talked about AI very much. [00:22:24] Vince Menzione: I mean, we talked about it from a solution and something you put in the, the market as an agent. But we haven’t talked about the change in a big way. Um, what’s your perspective for the partners out there and how they need to think about AI and embracing it and where they are in the journey? [00:22:41] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. Um, I really, AUL said something, uh, in his, in the panel discussion that he had the other day and it, it just really resonated with me. [00:22:53] Dexter Hardy: Uh, will AI take your job? Probably not. The person who’s using AI [00:23:00] Vince Menzione: will take [00:23:00] Dexter Hardy: the job. Will take you [00:23:01] Vince Menzione: job. Yes. [00:23:02] Dexter Hardy: Same thing. That’s really [00:23:04] Vince Menzione: so true. [00:23:05] Dexter Hardy: Same thing for, same thing for companies. Yeah. If you don’t have, and I, I’ll, I’m, I, I’m really gonna ask, I should have asked Jason this question. Why isn’t there a badge for frontier firms for SDCs? [00:23:21] Dexter Hardy: That’s a solution. Partner badge, not a frontier firm. [00:23:24] Vince Menzione: Yeah, [00:23:24] Dexter Hardy: but I’ll say if your company isn’t investing in combining people and ai, you’re missing the boat. [00:23:36] Vince Menzione: Yeah. So be a frontier firm. [00:23:37] Dexter Hardy: Be a frontier firm where it doesn’t matter if you’re an si, SDC, if you are not leveraging that superpower of how do we do things faster, better, quicker. [00:23:50] Dexter Hardy: Make that part of your go to market and your operating total operations, you’re going to get left behind. [00:23:57] Vince Menzione: Yeah. We’re hearing it loud and clear. I mean, all the sessions we had yesterday. [00:24:02] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:24:02] Vince Menzione: All the people like yourself that have been here are all frontier firms. They’re all companies that have leaned in, in a big way. [00:24:07] Dexter Hardy: Right. [00:24:08] Vince Menzione: Um, and in some respect, I mean, we we’re, I’m, I’m saying proceed with caution because I, I know by 2030 our world is gonna look very radically different than it looks today. [00:24:17] Dexter Hardy: Yep. [00:24:18] Vince Menzione: Uh, we just, I need to make sure we have the security and the governance and the data structure the right way so that we just don’t, things don’t just go crazy in some respects. [00:24:27] Vince Menzione: Right? [00:24:27] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. And I, I do think that, um, to your point, you have to, we still have to keep the human factor in everything that we’re doing. Um, there is, again, it’s AI plus your experience that makes you better. [00:24:46] Vince Menzione: Yeah, agreed. [00:24:47] Dexter Hardy: AI in the hands of someone who has no idea what they’re doing is just a, it’s a faster way to failure, right? [00:24:53] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. Because they have, they still don’t understand the concepts. And so I really want to make sure that, you know, when you think about ai, think about it from the context of experience, right? Yeah. [00:25:06] Vince Menzione: And yeah, we can go, we can go down a, a whole discussion point here about ethics and what I’ll call AI for good. [00:25:14] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. Like I said, having the right approach, having an ethical approach. We talked about Microsoft on stage yesterday with people like Brad Smith, who, uh, there’s people that have this, this right philosophy and approach to ai. Right. That [00:25:29] Dexter Hardy: right. [00:25:29] Vince Menzione: It will do good for the world and not bad for the world. [00:25:32] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:25:33] Dexter Hardy: And I think that has to be, well, I’ll just speak for myself. Can you do something and should you do something [00:25:42] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:25:43] Dexter Hardy: You have to, that should be a question that you’re asking yourself. You should be evaluating and you have to have whatever your moral compass is that has to align with your moral compass. [00:25:53] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. Because they’re, you know, because with AI the can you do something becomes a lot bigger. Yeah. [00:26:02] Vince Menzione: Good point. Good point. [00:26:03] Dexter Hardy: Should you do it well, you know, greater good. I think as a, as a collective, one of the things that’s. If it hasn’t rained true. Uh, we all live on this planet. We all are part of the, we’re all in part of a connected ecosystem. [00:26:21] Dexter Hardy: Um, and so can we do it? Should we do it? Those are questions that we need to, you know, really think about as we continue to leverage AI and do the things that we’re doing. I mean, there’s, there’s a lot of opportunities. [00:26:36] Vince Menzione: Good points, good points. So for partners watching, listening today, um, two, couple things. [00:26:43] Vince Menzione: First of all, it’s changing fast. We need like, what would be, we’re at the beginning of 2026. We’re the first quarter, 2026, maybe the end of the first quarter at this point. [00:26:53] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:26:54] Vince Menzione: What is the one or two or three things that partners need to go do differently or better? And then, um, what would you say to them about marketplace and embracing marketplace? [00:27:09] Dexter Hardy: So I’m gonna answer the second question first. [00:27:12] Vince Menzione: Okay. Sounds good. [00:27:14] Dexter Hardy: Get in the marketplace. [00:27:15] Vince Menzione: Get in the marketplace, [00:27:17] Dexter Hardy: period. [00:27:17] Vince Menzione: Like why wouldn’t you be in the marketplace? [00:27:20] Dexter Hardy: Every hyperscaler has doubled down, tripled down. Yeah. On their marketplace. Microsoft had multiple marketplaces, now it’s just one. [00:27:28] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:27:29] Dexter Hardy: Writing should be all over the wall. Not that [00:27:31] Vince Menzione: one. There is, there is no market without marketplace. I mean, literally today, the old way, days of selling, the old days of co-selling are gone. [00:27:39] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:27:39] Vince Menzione: Like the days when we, we got pos and we, we sent a, an Excel spreadsheet to Microsoft to tell ’em about the deals that were co-sell. [00:27:47] Vince Menzione: Ready? Those days are gone. So you’re saying we’ve gotta be in the marketplace now and then, what would you say maybe the one thing that’s, let’s limit it to one for all of our amazing viewers, listeners, and ultimate partner guests, when when you, when I see you in Bellevue again, ’cause you’re gonna be in Bellevue, May 11th to the 13th again. [00:28:08] Vince Menzione: Absolutely. With us helping lead the marketplace conversation. What do they need to be doing now? Right now? Besides getting the marketplace? [00:28:18] Dexter Hardy: Besides getting the marketplace, I, I would, I would do a hard look at operations. [00:28:24] Vince Menzione: Operations. [00:28:25] Dexter Hardy: Like a lot of companies, they’re growing and they, what is it? How are we looking internally in our organizations to figure out again, can we do it? [00:28:34] Dexter Hardy: Should we do it? Companies need to focus on their superpower, even, even the big ones, right? Um, being. Not having the focus, not look, looking at or listening to your why as an organization can, can put you in a, in a really weird space. And so, uh, with everyone being able to grow and do what we’re doing, I would say lean into your why, [00:29:01] Vince Menzione: like into your why. [00:29:02] Dexter Hardy: Lean into your why. [00:29:03] Vince Menzione: I think too, I think what you, what you’re saying here, and I’m, my, my reaction to it too is that, uh, we’re, we’re so caught up in the moment right now. And things are changing, so it feels like they’re changing so fast, like coming back to philanthropic and [00:29:20] Dexter Hardy: yeah. [00:29:20] Vince Menzione: What’s evolved just in the last month or so that people are taking their eye off the why or the wall, so to speak and reacting? [00:29:29] Vince Menzione: Is that, is that your point? [00:29:31] Dexter Hardy: Yeah, that’s my point and, and I’ll give you an example. So AI is different from the following technology, but. And I both were around for the blockchain, blockchain, blockchain conversation. [00:29:45] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:29:45] Dexter Hardy: And if you weren’t doing blockchain, you weren’t part of the conversation. I invite you to consider how many conversations have you heard about blockchain do? [00:29:56] Dexter Hardy: Again, AI is a little bit different because it’s, it’s an enabler. It’s, it’s, it’s, it, it does a lot more than that. But I, I will say. AI is gonna become table stakes. And that’s why I say you have to, you have to embrace it as an organization. Yeah. And if you’re not, you’re gonna get left behind. [00:30:13] Vince Menzione: Okay. It’s a drop. [00:30:14] Vince Menzione: Drop the mic moment there. So drop the mic. I’m gonna ask you one more question, personal question. Yeah. I’d love to ask this of every single one of my guests. [00:30:22] Dexter Hardy: Yep. [00:30:23] Vince Menzione: I probably have asked this to you before, but I’m gonna ask it to you again. [00:30:26] Dexter Hardy: Yes. [00:30:28] Vince Menzione: You are hosting a dinner party. You can have this dinner party anywhere in the world. [00:30:32] Vince Menzione: We could talk about locations as well, and you can invite any three guests from the present or the past to this amazing dinner party. [00:30:41] Dexter Hardy: Mm-hmm. [00:30:42] Vince Menzione: Whom would you invite today and why? [00:30:48] Dexter Hardy: Wow. So the last time I answered that question, for those who didn’t hear the first podcast, it was Barack Obama. [00:30:56] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Nelson [00:30:57] Dexter Hardy: Mandela. [00:30:58] Dexter Hardy: And my great-grandparents. [00:30:59] Vince Menzione: Your great-grandparents. I remember your great-grandparents [00:31:02] Dexter Hardy: In this conversation, it’s gonna be more than three people. I’m sorry. [00:31:07] Vince Menzione: All right. But [00:31:07] Dexter Hardy: it make [00:31:08] Vince Menzione: some exceptions here. We’ll make them. [00:31:10] Dexter Hardy: It would be my great-grandparents. Still [00:31:13] Vince Menzione: nice. [00:31:14] Dexter Hardy: My parents and my children. [00:31:18] Vince Menzione: Very cool. [00:31:19] Dexter Hardy: Because I want to look back and let them see the same reason that I had them there before. [00:31:25] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:31:26] Dexter Hardy: Look at what you started. [00:31:27] Vince Menzione: Nice. I love that. [00:31:29] Dexter Hardy: Look at the continuation of your legacy in my parents. [00:31:32] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:31:32] Dexter Hardy: Look at what I have been able to build because of the investments and the things that you’ve poured into the love, the energy, the effort, the sacrifice, and then the sacrifices that I’m making to pass into that legacy. [00:31:46] Dexter Hardy: The next legacy. So this would be a. This is why I would say leaning to your why, like understand the importance of family. [00:31:54] Vince Menzione: Tell us about your great, your great grandparents. You told me about this on the last podcast for those who didn’t, didn’t listen in. [00:32:01] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:32:02] Vince Menzione: And don’t have the inclination to go back. [00:32:05] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. [00:32:05] Vince Menzione: But I think it’s a great story. [00:32:06] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. So, you know, growing up in the south [00:32:10] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:32:10] Dexter Hardy: Alabama specifically, uh, my great grandparents were part of, you know, slavery era. [00:32:16] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:32:16] Dexter Hardy: Jim Crow. Jim Crow. Crow. Yeah. The whole. [00:32:21] Dexter Hardy: The history of the United States and what, how it was built, you know, [00:32:26] Vince Menzione: an important part of the history of the United States, by the way, that we all should never forget. [00:32:29] Dexter Hardy: Yeah. So again, some of those, some of the ceilings that are out there now, there wasn’t even an option for. [00:32:36] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:32:36] Dexter Hardy: And so that’s why I really wanted them to, I would really want them to be here to see something that they probably could never even conceive as an option of, of it being. [00:32:47] Dexter Hardy: Uh, to be able to see where things are and then to, you know, why my kids, if this is where we are right now, I want you to dream big. The same amount of energy it takes to think small is the same amount [00:33:04] Vince Menzione: of energy it takes to think big. Dream big. Dream big. Dream. [00:33:09] Dexter Hardy: Dream big. [00:33:10] Vince Menzione: I think we’re gonna leave on that message. [00:33:12] Dexter Hardy: Yeah, [00:33:12] Vince Menzione: that’s a great message. [00:33:13] Dexter Hardy: Awesome. [00:33:14] Vince Menzione: So great to see you, my friend. It’s [00:33:16] Dexter Hardy: always a pleasure [00:33:16] Vince Menzione: to be with you, so always a real pleasure for me as well. [00:33:19] Dexter Hardy: Yeah, [00:33:19] Vince Menzione: and I want to thank you for watching and listening and being part of Ultimate Partner and the Ultimate Partner YouTube channel and our great guest and friend, Dexter Hardy. [00:33:30] Vince Menzione: Great to see you again. [00:33:31] Dexter Hardy: Always a pleasure us. Thank you, [00:33:33] Vince Menzione: sir. [00:33:33] Dexter Hardy: All right. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks. [00:33:35] Vince Menzione: Don’t forget, ultimate Partner Live is coming soon, May 11th through the 13th in beautiful Bellevue, Washington. I hope to see you there.

Dr. Bill Lampton: Hi there! Welcome to the Business Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy, bringing you tips and strategies that are certain to boost your business and mine. And I don’t bring you these tips and strategies solo; I bring them through a conversation with a lively, highly qualified guest. And today, we certainly have that guest coming to us from Montana: Diana Damron. Diana Damron has one goal: help individuals, teams, and organizations build trust from the inside out. She enlists what she calls the 3 Cs: Civility, Communication, and Character, to perform that transformation. Diana is a former television anchor who works with organizations to create, grow, and maintain cultures of trust. Described by her clients as “The Human Whisperer,” Diana has made it her mission to take on the toxic workplace and replace it with a culture of trust. Diana’s latest book, Civility Unleashed: Second Edition, is a “how-to” book for those who want to foster and work in an environment where talented people can thrive. Additionally, Diana provides readers with a transformative 5-step civility tool. And I want to say, a couple of months ago, I read that book, benefited from it greatly, gave it a five-star review on Amazon, and I encourage you to get Civility Unleashed: Second Edition. Along with Diana’s TEDx talk, she’s been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Southwest Airlines’ LUV Lines, and national television and radio interviews. She’s a former television anchor, co-host, and reporter who studied with nationally and internationally renowned speech experts. Recognized as a mental fitness coach, Diana is certified by the International Board of Certified Trainers and is a certified partner of Everything DiSC. Now, as for her sense of humor, Diana stopped taking herself too seriously the day that she walked off the runway at New York City’s Waldorf Astoria Hotel during a national modeling competition and fell right into the laps of shocked audience members. While Diana didn’t take home the Runway Model of the Year award that year, she did leave as National Model of the Year for Television. So, I know you will join me now in welcoming Diana Damron. Hello, Diana! Diana Damron: Hey Bill! It’s so great to be here. I’m laughing because I always think back about walking off the runway. It was a packed house, too. It was absolutely jam-packed. Now, the good thing was, there—the guys who caught me were these two really good-looking gentlemen who were kind of spotters. They were great, but yes, my—I was walking in air for a while. Dr. Bill Lampton: Up in the air, right? Diana Damron: Pop—yeah, up in the air, exactly. Dr. Bill Lampton: Well, I’ve had my “chivi-chays” moments, I call them. I—I think the one that I talk about most often is when I was MCing a college event with about 500 people in the audience, and they were honoring their alumni, giving four alums what they call the Medallion Award. And I had gotten the bios to read about them to introduce them, and I’d read them over very carefully, as you would do as a TV anchor. And when I was in the middle of reading one of the bios, the audience just erupted in laughter, and I couldn’t figure out why. Did I say something profane? So, I sat down, and the person next to me explained that I was supposed to have said that the lady who was being honored had written a play about the college in 1956, but unfortunately, Diana, I said she wrote the play in 1856. Diana Damron: (Laughs) Oh, I gotta tell you, when you do anything live, anything can happen. Absolutely anything can happen. Yep, yep. Dr. Bill Lampton: Yes, and— Diana Damron: She looked great for her age, right? Dr. Bill Lampton: (Laughs) Oh right, I mean she wasn’t that ancient, but—fortunately, we met afterwards and she had a great sense of humor, so it worked out okay. And you and I know, as longtime presenters, whether it’s on radio, TV, a seminar, a keynote speech, we know that we’re going to goof. In fact, one of the things I do when I’m coaching a client about speaking, on the handout I give them, I put “Don’t try to be perfect,” and I misspell “perfect.” I say “P-R-F-F-C-T,” and they say, “Hey, you misspelled that!” I said, “Yes, but you got the point, didn’t you?” And we have to learn from our mistakes, laugh at them, and just move forward, don’t we? Diana Damron: Yes, and it makes us so much more human when we’re not perfect. Dr. Bill Lampton: Yes, I don’t want to hear a mannequin with a mouth, you know? Diana Damron: Right. Dr. Bill Lampton: An absolute robot. We’re getting to your theme of civility. Diana Damron: Mhm, mhm. Dr. Bill Lampton: Was there something in your own work experience that drove you to delve into this topic, to become an expert in it, to write a book about it now in its second edition, to speak on the topic of civility, hold seminars, talk about it in interviews? Take us back to how this started for you. Diana Damron: Two things happened, Bill. First of all, I had gone through something—it’s entitled a modeling school, but it was really a finishing school where you learn, yes, you learn to walk on a runway and you learn to take photographs—or be photographed. But you also learn a lot about manners and speech. And it was so interesting, after I went through the course itself, then—I believe it was during my college years, I came back and during the summer I started teaching. And one of the courses I taught was all about manners and etiquette. I was, I don’t know, 17, 18, 19 years old, and I was teaching women who were about twice my age, who were coming back into the workforce after staying home and raising kids. And they came in and they kind of, you know, you could see they weren’t comfortable, they weren’t confident, they kind of sat back in their chair. Interestingly enough, I noticed as they learned more about manners and more about etiquette, you could see just them sit up, take notice, and there was a confidence. And I always found that was fascinating. What is it about this power of manners, courtesy, etiquette that made these women who, as I say, I was this little kid teaching them, to take notice and to really make this big difference? So, that was always in the back of my mind and I always wanted to do something with that, but at the same time, what I didn’t want to do is teach about knives, forks, and spoons. I—it wasn’t about the—like dining etiquette. So, that was—that was roaming around. And then I ended up in a situation where I was the target in a toxic environment. When I say target, I certainly didn’t know what that word meant in terms of business, but if you imagine having a bullseye on you at—at business, at work, that’s how I felt. And there was no question that I was the target, and it’d been made very obvious to—by the leader. What was interesting to me is I’m a confident woman. I’d been raised by the most amazing parents, so I didn’t have any of that baggage from a childhood. I went home to a supportive family, so I wasn’t going home to some kind of negativity. And yet, Bill, that situation affected me so strongly that I—I couldn’t eat, I couldn’t sleep, I didn’t know what end was up. And I thought it was a one-off. I—I really thought, oh, this has been unique. And interestingly enough, because I was confident when people talked about toxic environments and all of this before, I actually thought, oh, they must be pretty thin-skinned. I can’t believe it’s that bad. Well, it is. And what I found, Bill, was that increasingly, when I looked at the research, it’s more often you find a toxic work environment than not. Civility was needed. Dr. Bill Lampton: Well, I—I can relate to that in a couple of ways. One is that I’ve been a professional speaker, speech coach, and consultant now for three decades. But prior to that, I was in management positions. And as I read your book and read your illustrations about the lack of civility, one of my bosses came to mind. And I’ll have to say that I really thought Hitler missed a good man. Diana Damron: (Gasps) Oh no! Dr. Bill Lampton: And I endured that for—for five years. And you know yourself, having endured a situation like that, it’s very demoralizing, it saps your strength, it—it takes away your—your desire to serve to your ultimate ability. It—it’s very difficult. And so, your going through that gave you a mission. So, let’s—let’s move next to define civility. Uh, I—I know you’ve been asked this many times, how can you tell when an organization is operating with civility? Diana Damron: So, let me go back one step, Bill, and explain also, and I’m sure this happened to you: one of the lethal aspects of incivility or a toxic work environment is—is when you leave at the end of the day, it doesn’t stay there. You drag all of those emotions home. Dr. Bill Lampton: Yes. Diana Damron: Which—which means the importance of getting this right is invaluable. I mean, because you’re not affecting—you’re not just lonesome and it’s isolated to you, you are just sending out those vibes no matter what. So, to your question: how do you define civility? I think this is—this is where we really have an issue today. I define it—my definition for civility is the consistent communication of respect. What makes that definition hard? The “consistent” piece, right? So, it’s consistently being respectful. Now, we live in a world of conditional civility. In other words, as long as you look like me, maybe you’re the same color as me, or the same age as me, or you live like I do, or you think like I do, or in today’s world, you vote like I do, then I will be civil to you. I will respect you. But if you don’t check off all those “same-as,” you don’t deserve my respect. And that’s what we see over and over and over again. So, my whole point is, number one, you gotta focus on that “consistent.” Whether or not you feel good, whether or not you’re in a bad mood and you just had an argument with your spouse, or with a kid of yours, or whatever, or it’s just one of those days when you wake up on the wrong side of the bed, it’s required of you to put it together, get disciplined, get stronger, and be consistent with the civility. Dr. Bill Lampton: Yes, and—and as you say, it’s a—and I look at the society as you were describing it, and I think the word “toxic” fits a lot of places. Let’s think for a minute about social media. My gosh, people who post on social media on “hot topics,” we could call them, controversial current topics, they do it almost, from my judgment, they do it almost as though they’re anonymous, as though—as though they’re hiding behind the internet and therefore they can say anything that they want to. So that there’s no open-mindedness, there’s no consideration of what might—what might drive that other person to think that way. And this brings me to the three Cs that you talk about, the letter C, the 3 Cs. What—what are those? Diana Damron: When I thought about my experience in the work environment, and then I thought, you know, what’s really at play here? These things kept popping up: civility, which, as I say, I define as the consistent communication of respect; communication, how we send and how we receive messages—and I don’t mean just the words, there’s the tone of voice, there’s our body language, there’s how quickly we respond; and character. And I think of character as who you are when you think that no one is watching, because more often than not, somebody is watching. So, if you think about it, those three Cs are actually interdependent, they look like a Venn diagram. So, if you ignore one—for instance, we are ignoring our civility right now. I mean, and I can give you lots of reasons for that, but we are ignoring our civility. That doesn’t just stay in that little circle of civility, that affects our communication. As you pointed out, social media, the way we communicate on social media shows no respect for the other person at all. Well, you carry that to the next C, the character, it—it reflects on who we are. And if we ignore our civility, we ignore our communication long enough, it changes our character. So I tie them together by saying you communicate your character by how you exercise your civility. In other words, you tell everyone who you are, what you are, what you stand for, by how you treat others. Dr. Bill Lampton: We’re going to come back in just a minute, and we’re going to talk about something that is certainly the central part of your expertise, and that’s communication skills. You’re a former television anchor, reporter, you’re a keynote speaker, this is the Biz Communication Show, so in a minute, we’re going to get your tips on how to make effective presentations. Dr. Bill Lampton: Okay Diana, here we are with Diana Damron on the Biz Communication Show talking about civility and related topics. And just before that short break, I mentioned that we want to explore your take, your advice on presentation skills because this is something you have done at the top levels as a TV anchor and reporter and as a keynote speaker, TEDx speaker. So, many of us have to give presentations who are not professional speakers. We have to give annual reports, we may have to speak at our business and social gatherings, we possibly have to give an outline of a plan—there are many ways that we have to speak even though we’re not professional speakers. What are—or what are keys that you would pass along to us, Diana? Diana Damron: Well, first of all, Bill, I—I think it’s so important to know your subject. Right? Because you might have a memorized speech and all of a sudden that your memory kind of goes one place else and you forget it, but if you know your subject, you can keep talking about it and you can keep ad-libbing about it and continue the conversation—the speech. So, really know your subject matter well would be my first—my first tip. The second tip is we tend to focus on ourselves, and I would say that’s at the hub of so many of our issues today. But when you focus on yourself as a speaker and you worry so much about how you’re coming across or how I’m coming across, it makes—we set ourselves up for failure, right? We set ourselves up to be really concerned about us. And I would say pivot that and think about your audience. How can I make my audience feel more comfortable? How can I get my message across to my audience? How can I connect to my audience? And so often, that comes with a smile. I mean, it—it seems so small, but just connecting with somebody and smiling, or at least softening the expression. If you’re talking about something very serious or dramatic that happened, you’re not going to be smiling through the entire thing—entire speech. But at the same time, you want warmth to be connecting—you want to be connecting with warmth, so you want to be sure that you’re smiling. And I think the whole thing is to really be thinking about the audience. Really be thinking about that person on the other side of the stage, on the other side of the microphone, but think about what do they need? What—what’s one thing that will leave them in a better place when they walk out of either virtual or walk out of the room? What—what’s a takeaway that will change their life for the better? Dr. Bill Lampton: I—I applaud everything you’re saying. And—and let’s start with your bit about let’s not just come in there with a—with a memorized text. Uh, traditionally, and I’ve been a—a speech coach for a long time and I’ve been a professional speaker for a long time, and traditionally the instruction has been write out the speech word for word, memorize it, uh, don’t vary from it. And as you just indicated, the focus is in the wrong place. The focus is on you. But when we turn the focus to the audience, one of the things we discover quickly is that audiences are not our critics; audiences are our cheerleaders. Because you’ve been in situations, certainly not with yourself speaking, but you have been in situations where the speaker visibly and audibly flops, and that’s a very uncomfortable situation for the audience. The audience is not your critic; the audience is your cheerleader. They want you to succeed. Plus, they are not looking for perfection because perfection is not the way that we communicate. So, I—I applaud your—your focus there. I’ve often thought that there—there are three things that we can concentrate on when we’re giving a presentation. One is ourselves, as you said, the impression we’re making; the second is the audience; and the third is the message. If we focus on anything except the message and the audience, we’ve got a real problem, don’t we? Diana Damron: Yes, exactly. And sometimes, you know, you talk about flopping in a speech, sometimes you can think you’re flopping because you misread the audience. I remember one time I was speaking to a—and it was a fairly small group and it was a nonprofit, and there was a woman, Bill, she was right in front of me. I mean, it’s not like I could look away from her, and she appeared to be asleep. Just—oh my gosh, and that is not something to build you up when you’re trying to speak to someone sleeping. Well, this woman, apparently that was the way she listened. She listened—and I—and I’ve had a dear friend who listens the same way. He was kicked off of jury panels because when he listened, he closed his eyes, and everybody thought he was asleep. Well, this woman who I thought was sleeping through my speech came up afterwards and she said, “That was great! May I hire you to help our organization?” So, sometimes we get so caught up with the way that the audience looks at us that we begin to start doubting ourselves and then we can really begin to start plummet. Dr. Bill Lampton: Well, what I’ve found effective—and I’m sure you have too—is my mother often said “Don’t talk to strangers,” but she’s right when it comes to audiences, too. We—we shouldn’t be talking to people we haven’t had—you know, if they’ve got a reception ahead of time, get there and—and get involved, and—and all of a sudden talk with three or four people, and you’ve got—you’ve got some support right there. And then too, I—I agree with what you said also, that we’re not quite sure of our impression, and that’s one of the things your illustration of this person hiring you afterwards—but additionally, Diana, that’s the great value of video. In many of the presentations that we make, we can see a video afterwards, and the parts where we thought we paused too long or we looked too confused or we repeated ourselves—I mean, after all, that’s just a part of normal conversation. And you and I, I believe, both accept that let’s leave delivery to FedEx and the post office. Diana Damron: (Laughs) Dr. Bill Lampton: Everybody else who’s in that business, and let’s just have a conversation with our audience. And I know I’ve found it helpful, and I’m sure you do too, let’s say you meet those two or three people ahead of time, or even if you don’t, you can nearly always when you’re giving a presentation, you can look out there and you can see the—those three or four wonderful people who are attentive, they’re receptive, they’re awaiting your every word, and you—you draw from them, don’t you? Diana Damron: You do, and I think one of the important things is to remember you—and you mentioned this before, Bill, don’t worry about being perfect. Don’t make yourself the hero of every story. Don’t talk about how you fixed this, that, and the other. And don’t be afraid to explain how you messed up. I mean, it makes people much more—you much more relatable to other people. Dr. Bill Lampton: Yes, uh—who was it? Some famous person was going to have his picture painted and he told the artist, “Paint me warts and all.” Diana Damron: Mhm. Dr. Bill Lampton: And that’s where we’re at—warts and all. And—and in fact, if—if I come across as everything went as planned down to the last letter, I have—I have flopped because we don’t do that in conversation, we don’t do that in small meetings, why would we do that before a crowd? We’ve got time for a closing question, and that is: how is it you are called the “Human Whisperer”? That—that’s an interesting—interesting tag there. What—what is the “Human Whisperer” all about? Diana Damron: Well, you know Bill, you—your whole focus is on communication. And you know communication is so much more than just words, and or even messaging. When you are helping somebody to communicate, you become something of a therapist. You find out what is holding them back in communicating openly. You—you spend time with them and see what kind of makes them light up. And so I was working with a manufacturing company and I would be in-house for about a week at a time, so I would get to know all of the leaders and all the support staff really, really well. And I learned more and more about what was getting in their way, and those were personal stories. And so you become something of a therapist but it was in the workplace. And I’m not giving therapy advice, but the point is you can use those ex—those stories to begin to connect with people and to begin to help them understand what’s getting in the way of their communication. Dr. Bill Lampton: Very well said, very well said. Diana, hosting you I knew would be a privilege, I knew it would be highly informative, and I was right on both. And we’re—we’re fighting that old clock on the wall, that proverbial clock. So I know there are people who want to get in touch with you, please give us your contact information that you’d like to share. Diana Damron: You bet. My website is dianadamron.com, so you certainly can connect with me over there. I’m also on Facebook and I’m on LinkedIn. And I try to be on Instagram, but I’m not as reputa—or not as consistent there. So Facebook, LinkedIn, and my website, dianadamron.com. Dr. Bill Lampton: Hard to be everywhere, I agree. Well, thank you, and I—I encourage everyone to get in touch with her, get more familiar with her work. And Diana, I hope this is not your only appearance with me on the Biz Communication Show because I and our listeners and viewers will benefit so much. Diana Damron: Well, thank you so much, Bill. This has been just such a treat to be with you. Dr. Bill Lampton: Ah, well it’s—it’s so easy to communicate with a top communication pro, it’s as though we’ve had many coffee chit-chats before, isn’t it? Diana Damron: Yes, yes. Dr. Bill Lampton: And now that you’ve given your information, I’m happy to share mine. As—my YouTube channel is listed under Bill Lampton, PhD. I’ve been recording videos on YouTube since 2007—now don’t look in any of those I recorded then—but since then there have been—I’m several hundred instructional videos about communication. And hey, it revolves around our favorite word: free. So, invite you to go there, and also while you’re there, subscribe to the YouTube channel. And then my website, since my tagline is Biz Communication Guy, my website quite logically is bizcommunicationguy.com. And on my website, you can subscribe to the podcast, which I hope you do. Also, I want to mention the co-producer of this show, Mike Stewart, based in Nashville. Mike and I first met at the Georgia Speakers Association in 1998, and things were just really getting underway technically in the speaking business, and he came up to me and he said, “Do you have a website?” and I said, “Yes.” He said, “Do you have sound on it?” Wow, how provocative was that? So, Mike has been my mentor and strategist and technical advisor ever since. So, I—I encourage you to go there. And then I welcome phone calls to 678-316-4300. And Diana, I—I again thank you for the wonderful ideas and guidelines that you’ve given us. Diana Damron: Thank you for the invitation and thank you for such great questions! Dr. Bill Lampton: Ah, well it’s easy to come up with questions for an expert, and you are that. I would love for you to, and I know our—our viewers and listeners would love for you to, in 30 seconds or a minute, what would be some gems that you would really like to leave with us? Diana Damron: I think number one: remember what we’re trying to do all the time is to build trust. Build trust with even strangers. Number two: work on leaving people in a better place than where you found them. That does not mean you have to be a doormat, but in today’s world, people are going through things, leave them in a better place. Um, think about who you are, and think about how you can communicate to other people. Don’t—don’t think about their civility towards you, think about how are you unleashing civility towards them? Dr. Bill Lampton: Excellent, excellent. Thank you again, Diana Damron, for being our guest. Thanks to those who joined us on video or on the podcast, and we invite you to be with us again next week for another edition of the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy.

Rajiv talks with Oren Michels about why enterprise AI ROI stalls when tools live in chat and stay stuck in read-only mode. We break down how a control plane for AI agents enables safe write access across SaaS and internal systems while keeping governance tight.• chat interfaces working for developers but not for most business roles• connectivity and trust as the core blockers to enterprise AI adoption• one control plane to manage many AI models and agent tools• task-level guardrails that limit what each agent can do• a concrete write-access workflow across Google Sheets, email, and Salesforce• scaling protections like rate limiting, token spend controls, and activity logs• MCP as a way to expose a safe subset of API capabilities to an LLM• least privilege for agents with gradual permission expansion over time• moving from identity-based access to intent and context-based policies• Venn.ai as a single-user on-ramp to governed automation• Broadway business history in the Spark Tank and why creative structure matters• lessons from selling Mashery to Intel and operating inside a zero-failure culture• founder advice on execution and choosing co-founders wiselyAI looks magical in a demo, then it hits the enterprise and the ROI mysteriously evaporates. The gap is not model quality, it is operations: most companies trap AI in chat, strip away connectivity, and keep it read-only because write access feels too risky. That is how you end up with polished summaries instead of real work getting done.We sit down with Oren Michels, founder of Barndoor AI and former CEO of API management pioneer Mashery (acquired by Intel), to unpack what it takes to run an agentic workforce safely. We dig into the idea of an enterprise AI control plane that lets teams pick the best agents and models while centralizing governance, visibility, and policy. Oren shares why “least privilege” matters more for probabilistic AI agents than it does for trusted humans, how Model Context Protocol (MCP) can expose safe tool capabilities, and why CISOs want governance outside of the AI vendor's app.You will also hear concrete examples of high-ROI write access workflows, like pulling context from Gmail and Google Sheets, checking Salesforce, updating records, and drafting follow-ups in minutes. We explore scaling issues such as rate limiting, LLM token spend, and audit logs, plus a crucial architectural shift from identity-based access (“who are you”) to intent-based access (“what are you trying to do”). Oren also explains why Venn.ai exists as a lower-risk way to build trust with agentic automation before the full enterprise rollout.If you like practical enterprise AI, AI governance, security for AI agents, and real agentic workflows that move the business forward, subscribe, share this with a teammate, and leave a review so more builders can find the show.Oren Michels: https://www.linkedin.com/in/omichels/Oren Michels is the Co-founder and CEO of Barndoor AI, a company building the control plane for agentic AI to safely manage and govern how AI agents interact with corporate systems. Previously, Oren co-founded Mashery in 2006, serving as CEO until the company was acquired by Intel in 2013. A true multi-hyphenate with an Electrical Engineering degree from MIT, Oren is also a Tony-nominated Broadway and Off-BroWebsite: https://www.position2.com/podcast/Rajiv Parikh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajivparikh/Sandeep Parikh: https://www.instagram.com/sandeepparikh/Email us with any feedback for the show: sparkofages.podcast@position2.com

Are you a multi-passionate entrepreneur wondering how to brand multiple businesses, a major pivot, or an evolving empire, without starting from scratch every time? In this episode of Brave & Bold: The Personal Branding Podcast, host Kimberly Gayle breaks down one of the most powerful and overlooked concepts in personal branding: You are the throughline. Your businesses will change. Your offers will evolve. But you, your story, your philosophy, your way of seeing the world — is the constant that ties it all together. And when you build your personal brand around that throughline, you stop starting over and start building real leverage. In this episode, Kimberly shares her own throughline discovery — how storytelling has connected everything from her corporate PR career to photography, ABVGirl, Final Draft Taphouse, and Bold Emergence Branding. She also walks you through the Throughline Discovery exercise — a powerful Venn diagram process that helps you uncover the one message that runs through everything you've built and everything you're building next. In this episode: Why your personal brand is the leverage that ties all your businesses together How Reese Witherspoon and Gary Vee built empires across industries using one throughline The Throughline Discovery exercise to uncover your personal brand message Why wild soul entrepreneurs are not scattered — they are strategic   Want to hop on a call to discuss building your personal brand? Request your FREE brand strategy call below — and we can build a plan to help you get known, get seen, and build the empire you're meant to build! Request Your Free Personal Brand Strategy Call Here: https://mountain-cardamom-037.notion.site/2955061b5cdf803790aecbbb4badc5bd?pvs=105 Show Notes Here:  Let's Connect! Email: kimberly@boldemergencebranding.com Instagram: @boldemergencebranding @itskimberlygayle

In Part 3 of our series on feeling Alive, we explore the second of the three A's: Acceptance.Hope you enjoy this one!Zoom Summary:The Three A's to Feeling AliveKay discussed the second installment of a series focusing on the three A's to feel alive, following awareness with acceptance. Kay emphasized the importance of personalization in learning, encouraging participants to engage with the content in a way that works best for them rather than adhering to a strict structure. Kay then transitioned to discussing the concept of awareness, inviting participants to reflect on its meaning for themselves.Venn Diagram of Aliveness ConceptsKay discussed a Venn diagram about aliveness, explaining that movement through the diagram starts with awareness and then moves to acceptance. She noted that the word “disconnected” was near the awareness circle and “exhausted” was near the acceptance circle, suggesting a connection between being disconnected and lack of awareness, and between exhaustion and acceptance.Radical Acceptance Concepts DiscussionKay discussed the concept of radical acceptance, explaining how it involves allowing circumstances to be as they are rather than trying to control them. She outlined three qualities of acceptance: “own business minding” (practicing appropriate involvement in others' lives), curiosity, and trust.Own Business Minding Concept DiscussionKay discussed the concept of “own business minding,” which involves understanding and accepting one's own truth while letting go of control over others' actions. She emphasized the importance of acceptance over judgment, referencing Walt Whitman's idea that curiosity is better than judgment. Kay encouraged participants to reflect on their own experiences related to these concepts and invited them to share their thoughts via email.Components of Acceptance DiscussionKay discussed the components of acceptance, which include curiosity about someone's experience, open-mindedness, and trust. Kay emphasized that trusting can be challenging due to fears of betrayal or misplacement of trust, but emphasized that acceptance involves embracing reality as it is rather than wishing it to be different.Acceptance and Aliveness ConceptsKay discussed the concept of acceptance as part of a series on aliveness and agency. She encouraged listeners to reflect on how acceptance applies to their own lives and suggested exploring this topic with friends, therapists, or coaches. Kay also introduced a diagram showing the opposites of feelings that help us feel alive, including suspicion, anxiety, and over-control, which can help identify the need for acceptance.Invitations from meCome to the retreat that I'm hosting in SeptemberOr, hear more about itCome be in company with some like-minded soulsConnect with me to talk about coaching or facilitationThank you for being here with meLove, Kay This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kaylockkolp.substack.com/subscribe

What if the real secret to business growth is not creativity but competition? I sat down with Chris Dreyer, founder of Rankings.io, who built one of the fastest-growing legal marketing companies by mastering SEO, niche focus, and relentless execution. Chris shares how his early work ethic shaped his path, why he chose the highly competitive personal injury space, and how treating business like a math-based game helped him scale. You will hear how content, reviews, and authority drive Google rankings, why most lawyers misunderstand marketing, and how narrowing your focus can actually expand your results. I believe you will find this useful as Chris shows how discipline, data, and consistency can turn any business into an unstoppable force. Highlights: 00:56 – How early work and family habits built a strong work ethic05:00 – Why taking the hardest job created resilience and grit12:12 – How serving people helped develop communication and confidence24:22 – Why choosing a competitive niche leads to greater success37:08 – What it takes to rank at the top of Google consistently51:16 – How doing free work early builds skill and long-term growth Bottom of Form About the Guest: Chris Dreyer is the CEO and Founder of Rankings.io, the category-defining SEO agency built exclusively to help elite law firms and personal injury lawyers dominate Google's organic search results. Under his leadership, Rankings.io has become synonymous with measurable results, helping attorneys secure life-changing cases through visibility at the exact moment potential clients are searching for help. The company has achieved what few in the legal marketing space ever have, earning a spot on the Inc. 5000 list of fastest-growing private companies for eight consecutive years, proof of both sustained growth and relentless execution. Beyond Rankings, Chris is a builder of platforms and a voice of authority in legal marketing and entrepreneurship. He is the Wall Street Journal and USA Today best-selling author of Niching Up: The Narrower the Market, the Bigger the Prize, where he details how focus creates outsized impact. He is also a seasoned real estate investor and the host of the Personal Injury Mastermind podcast, where he interviews top attorneys and business leaders shaping the future of law. His influence extends across respected councils and networks, including the Forbes Agency Council, Rolling Stone Culture Council, Business Journals Leadership Trust, Fast Company Executive Board, and Newsweek Expert Forum, cementing his reputation as both a practitioner and thought leader. Chris's path to entrepreneurship has been unconventional yet relentlessly instructive. Once a world-ranked collectible card game competitor, he carried that same strategic mindset into business. After earning a History Education degree, his first professional role was as a detention room supervisor, hardly glamorous, but it provided the unstructured time that sparked his obsession with digital marketing. He began experimenting with affiliate sites and, at his peak, managed more than 100 properties simultaneously. This side hustle soon eclipsed his day job, propelling him into full-time entrepreneurship. When affiliate marketing's golden age waned, Chris pivoted into legal SEO and quickly carved out a niche. Along the way, he also became a top-ranked online poker player, honing skills in risk management and probability that would serve him well in scaling his companies. Today, Chris runs Rankings.io with the same competitive fire he once brought to cards and poker, driven to outthink, outwork, and outlast the competition. His mission is simple: help the best personal injury law firms win more cases, build enduring legacies, and dominate their markets. Ways to connect with Chris**:** website: rankings.io https://x.com/chrisdreyerco https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisdreyerco/ https://www.facebook.com/chrisdreyerco https://www.instagram.com/chrisdreyerco/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe Welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. I'm your host. Michael Hingson, speaker, author and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear, together, we focus on mindset resilience and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi everyone, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset. Today, our guest is Chris Dreyer. Chris, Chris has formed a company called rankings.ai. And I'm going to let him describe what all that is about. And he's done some pretty interesting things with it. It has been on inks top 5000 companies, growing companies for the past eight years. Eight years is a long time, which is pretty cool. So I'm sure he's got lots of adventures and lots of stories to talk about. So Chris, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're Chris Dreyer  01:35 here. Yeah, thanks for having me, Michael. I'm excited to chat. Michael Hingson  01:39 Well, let's start with kind of the early Chris growing up and all that, and see where we go from there. It sounds Chris Dreyer  01:45 good to me. So yeah, Michael Hingson  01:46 let's go. Why don't you tell us a little bit about Yeah, school and all that stuff. Chris Dreyer  01:51 Okay, yeah, let me, let me, and then you just cut me off at any point, because I can be a long Michael Hingson  01:55 talker the so can I? I Chris Dreyer  01:56 know what you mean. I, I grew up in a very small city, elkville, Illinois, my high school had 100 people in it. I was a graduating class of 28 I grew up, I would say it's kind of weird. My mom and dad, if they heard me say poor, would not love me saying poor, but I we weren't. We were certainly at the bottom of middle class or the upper or poor. I had a lot of chores. I every single weekend, I cleaned a law office with my mom or did something at the farmers market. So and at the time, it wasn't work. It was just what we did as a family, right? I didn't even understand it. We had, we didn't have city water. We had to get a truck and bring in our water, and we had well water, right? And in my family, and that was, that was early on, right? My dad was a milk carrier. My mom was a cook and and ultimately, they did better over the years and made more money. But it started off, it was a lot, a lot of grit, perseverance, working hard. And I like to share that, because my parents work ethic is very strong, very dependable, very consistent. And that's kind of where I got my drive. But that's, that's kind of how I grew up, small, small town, you know, a lot of side hustles with the parents. And once I went to college, I got that, that shock of, oh, here's a whole bunch of go from 100 to, you know, 20,000 Yeah, it's a bit of a shock there. 03:35 Where'd you go to college? Chris Dreyer  03:36 Yeah, I went to SIU, Southern Illinois University. There in Carbondale, Illinois. I actually live in Carbondale today. And, you know, I went to college. I was always had that entrepreneurial bug, and, but I went to college, it was kind of to make mom and dad happy to get that degree and, but I just knew that I was going to own my own business. And I kind of had that conversation with them out of the gate, but so I was a terrible student. Partied a lot, you know, chase the women, so to speak, and but somehow, ended up with a degree, got a job at a high school as their JV basketball coach, and I started doing internet marketing on the side to make a little extra money because I had some downtime. And by the end of my second year teaching, I was making about four times the amount doing that that I was teaching. So that was kind of my sign, and to go pursue that full time, and that's what I did. That's when I left to do affiliate marketing and digital marketing full time was after Michael Hingson  04:41 that second year, of course. Now the real question is, you were chasing the women? Did any of them 04:44 chase you? Oh yeah, oh yeah. Just Michael Hingson  04:49 want to make sure it's reciprocal here. Yeah, that's that's pretty cool, though. And I was going to ask you, and you sort of answered it, about your workout. Ethic and so on. I find that if people do grow up in an environment where they're working and they appreciate what they do get and the amount of work that they do, and they develop a strong work ethic, or their parents have it, they generally do as well, although sometimes there's some rebellions, but still, ultimately, the right stuff shows through. Chris Dreyer  05:24 Can I tell just a brief story about that? My mom, when I turned 16, it was like, you're getting a job, son, right? And it was not, we had, we were fine without, but it was like, so she took me to this place. It was called Ken's antiques, and they used to do the semi truck deliveries of aluminum, and I used to go to auctions and unload furniture. And I asked her, I was like, Why did you take me there? Well, you know, why didn't you take me to the mall? Why didn't you know to go work at a the buckle or the gap or something, you know, why did you take me? There she goes. Well, I knew if you could, if you could succeed here, you'd be fine anywhere, because it was the hardest job that I could think of. And I was like, Oh, really, thanks, Mom. Like, send me to the to the hardest job that you could think of and see if I could thrive. And I did well there. But that just kind of goes to show you the mindset that my mom had racing me, which also kind of, you know, attached to me as well. Michael Hingson  06:26 Yeah, well, and I can appreciate course, now looking back on it, of course, but I can appreciate what she said, because if you can survive in one place, and you can if it's if it is a tough job and you approach it the right way, then you'll probably be good anywhere, and there you go. Chris Dreyer  06:47 Yep, yep, to her credit, it was a very tough job. It is as still to this day, the hardest job from a physically demanding perspective that I had, but, but yeah, and it was good. It built resilience, you know, kind of helped me get that that put that true grit on and yeah, so that's kind of my background. Michael Hingson  07:08 I never did really work at a job growing up, my brother did. He worked at a restaurant and so on and bus tables and did other things. But I remember, when he got his first job, he went and applied at a at a restaurant, and the owner or manager, I guess probably both said, so, you know, we'll, we'll consider you. Would you do us a favor? There's some weeds out in the in the front, would you go pull those? And he said, within about a half hour, he got the whole place completely cleaned up of weeds. And the boss came out and said, You did all of that. And my brother said, Yeah. And guy said, You're hired. You know, amazing, you know, because my brother didn't even realize, I think at first, that that was really a test, but it was, and of course, he passed, which was cool. That's a great story, but I never got really to do much work. I kind of was more the intellectual guy in the family, and finding jobs would have been a little bit more of a challenge for me. I did do some babysitting, but that was about all I could do. I've been blind my whole life, and a lot of the jobs that were available in Palmdale, where I grew up in Southern California, were not jobs I was going to realistically be able to do anyway, but I could babysit, and that worked out pretty well. Yeah, yeah. So I mainly studied, Chris Dreyer  08:41 love it. So So studied. Can I? Can I do the reverse interview? What's some of your your top motivational books, business books? Because I'm sure you've got some that just pop top of the dome. Well, sort of, kind Michael Hingson  08:55 of, I really have a slightly different idea about that, but I'll tell you, I've read a number of the main books in the whole motivational and and management world. One Minute Manager is a book I appreciate a great deal. And I also like Dale Carnegie books like How to Win Friends and Influence People. But for me, I point out, and even to this day point out that I've learned more about teamwork and trust and leadership from working with eight Guide Dogs for the last 61 years than I ever learned from all the management and leadership books and everything else that's out there, mainly because working with dogs, you have several things that are An issue, first of all, respecting them and the job that they do, knowing that you're really forming a team with a guide dog, where each member of the team has a job to do. So in my case, the dog, and the case of people who use guide dogs, the purpose of the dog is to make sure that we walk safely as. We're walking somewhere, but my job is to know where to go and how to get there, and then I have to learn how to communicate that to the dog, and also be the leader of the pack in the truest sense of the word, which also means that if the dog is upset, or there is any kind of an issue with the dog, I have to figure out what that is, and I have to read what is going on so that I understand that and can then figure out what is occurring and make sure that the dog stays happy so it's you. There's so much to learn about trust, and one of the main things I've learned over the years is while dogs do, I think love unconditionally, unless they're just so badly traumatized by somebody for some reason they don't trust unconditionally. But the difference between dogs and people is that dogs are open to trust a whole lot more than we are. We have just had so many things go on. We read we bought them in the newspapers, we see it on the news and so on. Nobody trusts anyone. The feeling is basically everyone has their own hidden agenda, and so you can't trust anyone. And so there's very little communications today. There's very little real interaction. And people, by definition, don't trust. Dogs are open to trust, and you can earn their trust, and likewise, they get to and can earn your trust, and it is a it is a combination and kind of thing. So what I really learn when I go to get a new guide dog every time is I'm learning how to form a team with this other dog who doesn't speak the same language I do, who doesn't think the way I do. But I have to figure out what this dog does, what this dog is all about, and I'm the one that has to become the leader of the of the team and make things work. So I think that working with a dog is a lot more of a practical experience kind of thing than just reading about whatever there is to read about in books and so on. So that's why I say that. I think I've learned a lot more by working with dogs than I ever got from all the management books in the world, any of the Tony Robbins books, or any Chris Dreyer  12:07 of those. I love, every bit of that I just I was on x the other day, and it was talking about the the new CEO for Starbucks, right? Because the former CEO was McKinsey trained, right, but didn't have any actual experience at the helm. And then they brought back the former CEO of Taco Bell over to Starbucks, and the stock immediately shot up because of the application aspect of it. He had, he had done the job and been in the grind. So it's kind of interesting, kind of corollary there. But yeah, thank you for sharing. I was really intrigued, and I had to jump in and and ask, Michael Hingson  12:45 Oh, fair question, and then this is a conversation, so nothing wrong with asking questions on either side. So it's perfectly fine to to be able to do that well, so what did you do right out of college? Chris Dreyer  12:59 Right out of college, the one thing I'll tell you that I still to this day, I call myself an introvert. I don't think that, you know, introvert, extrovert. I think we have the tendencies at all times to be either one, right? But I think for me, I was more shy, but I built a lot of friends because I played sports and I knew them in college, and then they met, they introduced me to their friends. Because you got to imagine, when I had a class of 28 kids, it's like super small community versus, you know, everybody I'm interacting through their connections and their extended connections. So through college, I'd say the main education thing I got was, I did get a job waiting tables for three years, and so I got a lot of client service training, dealing with people having a ton of conversations through that, through my through my job, and also through my personal relationships with my friends and and other, you know, Students at the University, but so I think that kind of helped, helped me succeed afterwards, but afterwards, really, when I student taught at Heron, they saw my work ethic. They saw a shoe up, that I showed up, that I listened and I took action. So they, they hired me immediately, and I did the same when I was a JV basketball coach. I never missed a practice. Was always on time. Really tried to develop the kids and bring the most out of them, treated the parents well, and so I think that's what I did well, and it kind of put me in the position to have time to learn internet marketing. So I think that's kind of how it all started, Michael Hingson  14:47 when I was getting my teaching credential at UC Irvine, and I also got my master's degree in physics from there. But I student taught at the local high school, at University High School, and I student. Taught two classes. One was a physics class, and it was kind of for they called it dumbbell physics, but you know, it was kids who were sort of interested in science, but really didn't know where they wanted to go. But the other class was algebra one, and I remember one day I was teaching, and one of the students asked a question, and I didn't know the answer to it, and I probably should have, but I didn't. But what I said was, I don't know the answer right off, tell you, what do you mind if I look at it tonight, get you the answer and bring it back tomorrow. And the kid who was an eighth grader, actually accelerated, so it was high school algebra one, but he was from the eighth grade. He said, Sure, so I went home and found the answer in the book, when I should have known that, but anyway, came back in the next day, and even before I could say anything, he said, Mr. Hingson, I went home and got the answer, and I said, Well, come up and write it on the board. And one of the things that I did with with all of my classes when, of course, we had blackboards and all that, back in those days, I would want a student to come up and be the board writer, because they write a lot better than I do. And so we, we had pretty good competitions of people who wanted to write on the board. They all thought it was kind of fun, and I did spread that wealth around, but Marty came up and I said, now you got to explain what you're writing. And he had actually found the answer, which was cool, but my master teacher was also the football coach, and when I first told Marty and the rest of the class, I don't know the answer, but I will get it after class was over, Mr. Redmond said you did something that's absolutely amazing and was absolutely the right thing to do, and most people wouldn't do it. And that was you admitted you didn't know the answer, but you would go get it rather than trying to blow smoke, because these kids can see through that in a second. And he said, So you did the right thing, and I've always felt that's the way to do it. If I don't know the answer, I'll go figure it out, but I will also tell you that I don't know the answer, and you can decide whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, but I think it's a good thing, to be honest, Chris Dreyer  17:22 I couldn't agree more. Michael Hingson  17:25 And so it was fun. And and what the the other part of the story, and I think I've told it a couple times on the podcast, is 10 years later, I was at the Orange County Fairgrounds, and this kid comes up to me, Well, he was, he didn't sound like a kid anymore. And he said, Mr. Hingson, do you know who this is? Deep voice. And I went, No, not right off. And he said, I'm Marty. I'm the guy that was in your algebra class 10 years ago. Nice to be remembered, but, but he he also just remembered what happened. And I think he even said it was so cool that I was honest with him about it, which was, you know, a life lesson anybody should learn. Chris Dreyer  18:09 That's incredible. That's incredible. So Michael Hingson  18:10 it was a lot of fun. Well, so you student taught and so on, but eventually you ended up deciding to go into the entrepreneur world. But you also were a card collector, right? A game collector, yeah. Chris Dreyer  18:25 And in high school, I played this collectible card game. I played a combination of two. I mean, most people are familiar with Magic, The Gathering, but I also played this other game called Legend of five rings. And both, you know, the collectible card games, but they're really math based games based upon advantage and and, you know, you so now it's applicable to today. I can look at any whether it's Pokemon or whatever card game there is. It's, it was very, you know, it's force based, you know, benefits to attack and things like that. It attributes everything. But anyways, I played it competitively, and I was a top I was a world ranked player at one time. I won four state championships or CO days. No one had done that at the time in a two consecutive years, and it was just a top player, and when you get to the top, you become friends with the other top players, and then you talk strategy and and that even takes you to an even higher level. And so I did that, you know, for many years, competed all over the country. It was a great experience. And so, yeah, that in my house. My dad very so he had, he was a civil engineer. He has an engineer degree, but he was traveling. He was on the railroad at all times, and he wanted to stop traveling, so he accepted this job as a mail carrier so he could stay put. And. Yeah, and that's what he did. He retired as a mail carrier, but, you know, a top math expert to the to the point where there would be conversations where you could, like, I couldn't understand him, right? He couldn't understand himself, right? And, and, and there's many conversations in different aspects of this. But when we played games, whether it was Yahtzee or monopoly or whatever, every game, there was a math based lesson to it, like, which dice you rolled for advantage at Yahtzee, which ones to hold after the first roll. Poker games, pitch games, Rummy, every single game it was, it was game theory. It was math on what was the precise the best role, like Monopoly, the best properties and the probability to get an orange property over other properties and and how much you should spend at certain points of the game. And I realized saying that outline that's that that's not normal. Some people just play yatse and roll the dice and they roll what they want, and some people play Monopoly and just buy the properties they want. That was not how games were played in my household, and it was very applicable to poker and to the collectible card games. Michael Hingson  21:22 Yeah. So how often did you want to buy Boardwalk and Park Place? Chris Dreyer  21:28 Not often. But I mean, so there. That was just how I was brought up. And yeah, and it turned into a lot of what I do today. Michael Hingson  21:42 Actually, I always like free parking. We had a thing where any money and and any kind of thing that you had to pay on all went into the free parking pot. So getting free parking was always fun. Oh yeah, but yeah, I hear what you're saying. I love monopoly and love to even play it against the computer, which was always a kind of a neat thing to do, but played Monopoly against other members of my family. Some we actually made a Well, we took a regular Monopoly board, and I think my father outlined the entire board and all the squares using elmer's glue so that we had raised lines for me to look at. Then we also did things to mark the paper money so I could tell what bills I had and and so on, and even Braille the cards. And I still have that game to this day, very neat, which is kind of cool, but monopoly spun. Chris Dreyer  22:36 Yeah, there's a lot of games that you know, there's no winner. You take my wife wants to play Scrabble all the time, and I'm like, there's just not a winner in Scrabble. Because if I challenge you on a word, and I'm right, you're wrong. You're mad if I beat you, you know, and then if I lose, it's not fulfilling for me. That's one of those games. There's no winner. Michael Hingson  23:02 I have a friend who plays Scrabble with his mother all the time, and and he, I think he loses more than he wins, but he's always proud when he beats her. And he's almost 60, so you know, she's, she's older than he is, but they, they play and have a lot of fun with Scrabble. Chris Dreyer  23:21 That's incredible. That's Michael Hingson  23:22 great. Yeah, it is kind of cool. But anyway, so you eventually decided to go off and go into the entrepreneurial world, and you started your company, or went well, when did you actually start the company? Chris Dreyer  23:37 Started the company officially in 2013 it was attorney rankings.org, that was the original name. Now it's rankings.io, I worked at a few agencies previously, while I was also doing the affiliate marketing, and kind of got to see the agency world of providing, you know, the professional services space. And after working at a few agencies. Thought that I could do it right. I got the confidence from the competence, and that's when I launched it. 2013 we've always been focused on legal. The difference today is primarily, we're focused on a sub niche of legal for personal injury law. And, you know, we work with other practice areas, criminal defense, family law, etc. But really personal injury is the is 85% of our business. Michael Hingson  24:27 So what is it that rankings.io? Does, Chris Dreyer  24:31 yeah, we do digital marketing. We do search engine optimization now, AI search, we do pay per click paid social web design. A lot of performance marketing, I would say more performance, less creative and branding. And that's what we do. We work with the top, the biggest pi firms, personal injury law firms in the country. We're in chiefs, I think every state we work with about. 250 law firms across the country. Michael Hingson  25:03 What made you decide to focus on law in the beginning? Chris Dreyer  25:09 Yeah, I'll say a few reasons. One, I had an experience working with attorneys, and I liked working with them. So there was the like component when I worked at an agency, I had a few firms that would I spoke with, and I enjoyed it. The second thing was, if I'm being honest, the status like I wanted to tell my parents that I did marketing for lawyers, and not just, you know, any industry. And then the other thing is, is I'm very, very, very competitive, and I kept seeing and hearing these reports about more and more attorneys going to law school and and just all this competition for legal and the thing that I differ you hear a lot of coaches and mentors. They'll say, hey, go to the blue ocean. You know, everyone's read the blue ocean book, or, you know, Peter thiel's zero to one, and everyone thinks so, go where there's no competition. And I'm like, That's fine if you're Elon or Peter Thiel or Zuckerberg creating something new, but if you're going into an existing category, you want to go where there is competition, because it demands expertise, and that's the way that I've looked at it. Like, you take the agency perspective, I don't want to go to, you know, lawn care, SEO like, do they really want to do search engine optimization? Do they really have a ton of competition? Maybe that's not a great example. But you get my point where, if you go into the city, there's a ton of personal injury law firms, but there's only a few that can rank at the top. And there's, they're all trying to gather cases from one another, so they want an expert to help them, you know, get that visibility. And that's, that's the mindset that Michael Hingson  26:58 went into it. What strikes me is interesting, though, is that with all of that, you bring a very competitive level to what you do. And I'm not sure that I find that a lot of people necessarily even do that, so you consider even search engine optimization to be a very competitive thing, I don't want to say sport, but you consider it all about competition, and you want to really bring the best and the most significant aspects of it to what you do. And that clearly has to show up when you're talking about Inc ranking you in the top companies for eight years in a row. Chris Dreyer  27:47 Yeah, it's very status orientation. You know, that's why I like working with trial attorneys. There's a winner and loser in court, and there's only one top position in Google or on these llms, and it's, who's gonna win, who's the best? Yeah, and it's right there for everyone. Here's here's the tally. Everyone can see who's the best. And I've always loved that. I think I heard a podcast recently by John Morgan. He's the founder of Morgan, Morgan, right? Of course. And you know, he's always a character and funny to listen to, but, yeah, he talks about being insatiable. Like, how did you grow this? He's like, Well, I'm insatiable. I I want to continue to grow. And for me, it's, it's the exact same thing. It's like, I'm insatiable. We hit a milestone. I want the next milestone. It is the game that I'm playing. I am playing like my hobby is my business. I enjoy it. I look forward to a Monday. It rewards me mentally. I enjoy the people I work with. And that's that's how we're at you know, Inc, 5008 years in a row, we'll definitely be on the ninth year next year, due to our growth this year. And it's that's just, that's just how I treat it. It's just a big game. And, you know, like any game, you play Sim City, whatever, you get a little bit more money, you get a little bit more buildings, right? You do a little bit better, you hire more talent, you expand your capabilities, and you just, if you don't stop, you're going to Michael Hingson  29:22 continue to grow. But it's a game in the mathematical sense, and it's it's a game in the the productive sense of what you're trying to do is, isn't the game just, although you obviously have to have fun in what you do, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it. But it's a game in the mathematical sense of the word, oh, 100% Chris Dreyer  29:44 and so many people don't understand what I'm about to say. But like, every move that you make is a move based upon leverage in some capacity, yeah, and you take, because our time is all limited. You take. I'll give you some examples, like from a from a distribution perspective, hosting my podcast or being on your podcast is going to have more listeners than if I go speak on stage, if I go speak on stage now that that has its own benefits of authority and and different you know, belly to belly relationships from a trust perspective, but from a distribution perspective, I would be better off doing more podcasts than I would speaking on stage, sure. So there's an advantage there, right? And then there's also advantages through pricing arbitrage, and it's if, if I hire labor and talent in in the Midwest, and I pay them above average fees and salaries, and I pay my employees well, but compare that to New York or California. And I think some people, you know, these are things that they don't talk about, but when you start to look at leverage closely, it's everywhere. Capital, economies of scale, if I you know, there's leverage based upon my my buying power in certain areas, and that's what I look for. It's an interesting way to make decisions. Is based upon that leverage component. Michael Hingson  31:20 Do you think that that works in other kinds of arenas, other than just what you do? Chris Dreyer  31:27 Oh, I won 1,000% yes, yeah. It works in you could see it. You know, the closest would be, closest arena would be sports. There's so many, whether it's the salary caps or the talent of one person's labor based, you know, what they can do from a utilization or capacity versus another one's people talk about it on the business side of like, you know, You have one software programmer is worth, potentially 1,000x another one just because of that individual's capabilities. So it's literally everywhere, and it's also dissecting different scenarios into fractional leverage. So I'll take give you a different way of thinking about this. Is like, you take a an SEO specialist, a top tier SEO specialist might be 100 200 grand, right, technician, right? But you you break down their capabilities into the smaller parts. You know someone that just writes, someone that just does the title tags and the website, and someone that just does the links and that, like you can assemble, that individuals that that superstars talent through the FRAC breaking it down from a fractional perspective. It's just a big game of puzzles and how you get there and you look at like what your competitors are doing and how you can, I wouldn't say, exploit in a negative way, but, but what I mean is how you can take advantage in a positive way to to help your business succeed, right? Michael Hingson  33:15 Well, do you so if, if you're playing a game like football, of course, everybody, every team, wants to crush the other team, and it's all about winning and beating the heck out of the other guy. Is that really the way you view it, in terms of the game, as you play it, and do you enjoy being able to just crush the competition? Or is it a different mindset than that? Chris Dreyer  33:42 That's a really good question, because I am an abundance mindset. I don't think everything is a zero sum game. It's, I'll tell you something super nerdy. I was talking to my chief of staff the other day that he's we're big gamers, big nerds. And he, we were talking about Warhammer 40k and the dwarves in that game have a book of grudges. So anybody that that goes against the dwarves, they they're listed in the book of grudges, right? Yeah. And it's like all the dwarves are trying to, you know, right? This wrong. And I kind of look like that. I'm like, treat people respect like, you know, abundance zero, you know, like, abundance mentality. Do the referral thing until it's like, okay, you've done X, Y and Z, and I could give you examples of x, y, z, and it's like, okay, well, you're not my friend. You're not my ally, so now you are a true competitor by all since you know, by all definitions, right? That's how I've treated it. Michael Hingson  34:48 And so it isn't the joy of just beating everybody in sight. No, which is different, which is cool, because certainly. I would, I would also bet, though, that you have people who are competitors, but they're not unfriendly, so you can absolutely, yeah, you can develop Chris Dreyer  35:10 working relationships. Rattle off, and we have great conversations. We're friends, and people are surprised when they see us, and we're friendly, and it's like, no, it's like, we have families, we have life. We want to do good work. We want to and it's so you can absolutely have that too. Yeah. Michael Hingson  35:27 Why did you decide to specifically choose personal injury Chris Dreyer  35:33 for me? And it's this is turning into the math conversation. But really, I looked at our revenue, and it was like over 70% of our revenue. Was from less than 50% of our clientele. And it was a clear directional signal to pursue this area. And that's it was the math like, these are our best clients. They pay the most, they stay the longest we could do the best work. Also the PI space is the Super Bowl. Is the major leagues. In the legal arena, it's, it's very difficult to rank. There's a lot of competition versus, you know, I get a family law attorney. I don't care what market you're in, Los Angeles, it's like a sneeze to get them the number one or two? Yeah, it's and I like that. I like the competition. I like having to work at it and be creative and think about different things to try to obtain that top position. Michael Hingson  36:33 Yeah, well, so I would, I would presume that John Morgan's happy with you. Chris Dreyer  36:40 I, you know, I had Dan Morgan as a keynote for my 2024 conference, his son. And I haven't personally talked to John. I think he's well, he says he's retired, but he's not really retired, yeah, right. The I couldn't work with Morgan and Morgan, I can have a great relationship with them, but I can't work with them because they're in every market, and my I would, they would be my only client, so that's why, but certainly have a great relationship. I've got a text relationship with Dan, but yeah, they, I think they do everything in house. Michael Hingson  37:20 Anyways, you don't want to be the consularity for Morgan and Morgan, in other words, Chris Dreyer  37:25 your only client, right, right? That would put a lot of risk on the old client concentration problem, Michael Hingson  37:33 and it would, but still. So what does it mean for a law firm to dominate Google's organic search. And I guess the other question is, why is that the legal battleground that personal injury lawyers can't really ignore? Chris Dreyer  37:53 There's, there's so much here. Okay, where do I go? That's a lot of take. You take any channel, broadcast television has been the main vehicle for channel for distribution. It's the lowest CPMs cost per 1000. The distribution is very wide, because an individual doesn't know typically, when they're going to be in an accident, right? So you got to have a lot of reach and touch a lot of individuals. There's also radio and billboards. But typically, even if they watch you on television or hear you on the radio or what have you, they still convert. They go to Google to make that conversion that go to the website. Typically, it's not always and and things are changing due to these llms and the native experiences on platform. But even today, it's still the final destination before they contact a firm. So it's really important that you show up at the top of Google to capture all of those opportunities that you've advertised for in other mediums. Michael Hingson  39:09 How do you do that? Chris Dreyer  39:12 Well, so you know, I'll say, I'll try to simplify for the audience. Let's just keep it really, think of like a Venn diagram of, you know, the three circles overlaying and you've got the middle. You have to do all three. The first one is you have to have excellent content. You have to have, you know, if you're an auto accident attorney, you have to have content about auto accidents. You have to have, you know, you have to have content that targets phrases and words that consumers will search for, right? It starts with the content. It has to be thematically and topically relevant. Has to be excellent content. The second component would be related to. Views. You got to get Google reviews to show up on in the LSA, the local services ads location, you have to get reviews to show up in Google Map Pack. You need reviews now on Yelp to show up on and be discovered on these different llms, particularly a chat GPT. And just due to how okay for the SEO nerds listening, let me explain, because typically when you get reviews on Yelp and when you get reviews or recommendations on Facebook, they aggregate that information to other sites, which is then the listicles that form the basis of discovery for these llms. So you got to have a review background. So content reviews and then links. Google, the way that they differentiated, again, way against lo AOL was they use links as a categorization method. So if you're trying to win an election, you want to get as many votes as possible. If you're trying to win the first page of Google, you want to get as many high quality links as possible. High quality being authoritative, relevant, trustworthy, you know, sites that get a lot of traffic, so you need great content, lot of reviews and links. That is the very 8020, high end summer summary of of how to rank in Google search and on the llms, yeah. Michael Hingson  41:24 Well, and how does LinkedIn fit into what you do? Chris Dreyer  41:29 LinkedIn is a bit different. I you know LinkedIn more B to B platform. I think if you're a business attorney or a B to B firm, it's an excellent channel. I use it from a distribution perspective. I get a lot of reach. I get a lot of followers on there. A lot of attorneys congregate on there. And it's a great, you know, channel for recruiting talent, and it's cited frequently if you have some type of reputation perspective that you want to control around your name. LinkedIn typically ranks in one of the top three positions for your name if you have your profile set up properly. So yeah, it's, it's, it's got great distribution from a leverage perspective, and, you know, has other applications as well. Michael Hingson  42:15 If you were starting a law firm today, or you were advising someone who's starting a law firm, how would you deal with and start their marketing efforts? How would you organize marketing for them? Chris Dreyer  42:28 Yeah, in the beginning I would, I would do almost all performance marketing. I would not do. I would do very little with brands, because you need to get on your your cash acceleration cycle is very poor. From a PI perspective. I'm always thinking from an injury law firm perspective, because, you know, if you get an auto accident case by the time they get treatment and go through the whole process, you know, it could be 12 to 18 months before you get paid. So you know, I would think about performance marketing, Facebook ads, Google ads, LSA, SEO, a lot of the ads platforms that are, you know, very performance driven. That would be the majority of my investment. Facebook ads. So in a vacuum, you know, different markets are, there's different channels that are more effective. But in a vacuum, I would say today, right now, Facebook ads would be the best platform, the best channel for that, Michael Hingson  43:29 because so many, because it has such a high volume of viewers, or what Chris Dreyer  43:34 they're well, it's just the cost per lead. The amount that you pay on that platform to reach your target prospect is going to be cheaper than say, you go to Google ads and you're paying $600 a click for a phrase, or, you know, it's just now, there's, again, this is in a vacuum. There's very effective Google Ad strategies you can get, you know, creative with performance, Max campaigns and and different strategies. But I would say just in general, Facebook ads out of the gate would be one that I would start with, and I would start the SEO early, just because it takes time to develop. Michael Hingson  44:14 Yeah, well, that makes sense, and it does take a long time, and I think a lot of people don't necessarily understand how all of that works, but it's still something that they should, should deal with Chris Dreyer  44:28 1,000% and, you know, it's, it's a game of, it's a long game, but it, you know, even SEO can be on a shorter time horizon, if, if You're, like, if you target Car Accident Lawyer in that phrase and that segment, then sure, yeah, 12 to 18 months is, you know, you know, even two years before you start to get some visibility. But you target dog bites, you target, you know, some other case types that aren't as competitive like you can get traction sooner. Michael Hingson  45:00 Hmm, well, and that kind of brings up the question you You talk a lot about, and you wrote a book about niche. Why is it that going into like a smaller niche can yield sort of a greater opportunity, or by narrowing focus, you're creating bigger opportunities? Why is that? So? Chris Dreyer  45:22 What comes top of mind? Some of the biggest, the most important reason is it all centers around this word focus. When you focus in a single area, you become better. Well, because you were better, you can you can at your you can charge more because you're worth it. The other thing is, is when you focus on a single area, you you can create, create repeatable processes, and everything is not bespoke when it comes in. So you can set up your internal productization of a certain area. You it makes training easier by immersion. So there's a lot of benefits, even even the perception aspect of it, right? So when you think of like, who's better, a generalist versus a brain surgeon, you think a brain surgeon is a specialist. And you think, Well, who do you think, just offhand, whose fees would be higher? Well, you think the brain surgeon would would charge higher fees. And so from a perception perspective, and when you're thinking about trust, the that's the other one, right? You would think from a trust perspective, they would be more qualified because they're in this certain area. So, and when we're trying to convert someone in sales, it's always a conversation based upon trust. So those are some of the main advantages, the one heavy, heavy disadvantage. Disadvantage is Tam, total addressable market. It's you focus on personal injury. You're at 50, 60,000 firms. You focus on all law firms. United States, you're at 400,000 law firms. So there's trade offs for you know, there's pros and cons on both sides well Michael Hingson  47:03 and and that makes sense, but there is a lot of merit to the to the whole concept of specializing, and you've proven it with what you do, and you continue to be pretty successful about it. And then that makes a lot of sense, but you also do something else that I think is interesting. You've written a book, niching up, you've got a podcast, you have other things that you do, and, of course, just the company itself, but you put all of that together, and all of that not only has to help your brand, but it makes you more visible in the marketplace overall. Don't you think? Chris Dreyer  47:42 Yeah, it certainly does, and it is our flywheel, right? It's somebody that's on my podcast could be a potential quote in my book, and I have a personal injury lawyer marketing book, right? And there's quotes from the pod. I have now a quarterly magazine that goes out. We could cherry pick a couple episodes, you know, to include in the magazine. We have retreats that are quarterly. They're, they're in person that, because we have a community, they're easier to to fill. We have a yearly event for personal injury law firms called, you know, Pim con. So it's all this, this flywheel that kind of compounds over time due to the community aspect, Michael Hingson  48:25 but people obviously react well to it, because you continue to be successful. Chris Dreyer  48:32 Yeah, and I think the biggest thing for me is I am I am not the the expert. I am bringing on the experts in their field, the people that are eating their own dog food, so to speak, right? They're practicing what they preach. It is, I can orchestrate a great conversation because I know the space and can ask very specific questions based upon my knowledge. But I'm bringing on, you know, Dan Morgan's on the pod. I've had, let's see Morris Bart. You know, I've had frank Azar in Colorado. I've had the biggest of the big pi attorneys on sharing what works for them, which, which is very valuable, because it's not, you know, some, you know, a consultant or me or whoever, speaking about like, Oh, this is how you can grow a law firm. It's no this is the owner of a law firm explaining how he or she is growing their law firm right, Michael Hingson  49:31 and providing that advice for other people, which also helps you gain trust, which is pretty cool. What's the best way for an attorney who wants to stand out to truly build authority in the market? Chris Dreyer  49:50 Well, if you're if you're b Look, okay, so there's a couple types of firms. If you're a trial attorney and you want to get peer referrals, I would say. See, I would say start a podcast would be one of the best ways, you know, interview your peer, interview other attorneys around the country, talk shop, you know, speak at C les. You know, do the those types of aspects it, you know, a podcast. I'm not saying it's not good for B to C, but it's, it has to be a different type of podcast. So I think, I think B to B, if you're a litigation attorney, a podcast would be great if it's B to C. That's, that's tricky. I think I think probably social media in some capacity, but really it's just sharing your knowledge on a platform and being consistent. Michael Hingson  50:51 Yeah, consistency counts for a lot, and it is something you can you can show is being relevant in almost any kind of business. I mean, look at McDonald's. One thing you can generally tell about McDonald's is that their quarter pounder is going to taste the same everywhere, and it's going to be the same and, and, and companies and people can learn a lot by seeing a company that truly develops that level of trust, 51:24 yeah, couldn't agree more. Michael Hingson  51:26 And that's pretty important to do, to be able to get someone who is going to earn that trust by vigorously working to earn that trust. And so there's something to be said for that, needless to say, so you've built a very large company. What would you say are some of the pivotal moments that sort of helped shape your trajectory? I know you've talked about some things, but what, what kind of really, are the things that stand out that really helped you create all of that? Chris Dreyer  52:00 I think in the beginning, I did a lot of free work, and had to prove my work, prove my abilities. I think so many people just want to charge a lot out of the gate. And I think there's when you do things for people, they're more willing to reciprocate. And it from an application perspective, it makes you better. So I did a lot of free work early, a ton of free work. I took a lot of jobs or contracts that maybe not, maybe for certain, that I wouldn't take today, that were just not perfect, but like they were my opportunities that I didn't, you know, let them pass by. I think hiring the right people, having super high standards is incredibly important, people that share your values. In the beginning, I used to, every time I heard a speech or taught speech speaker talk about culture values, I used to kind of roll my eyes and say I just didn't get to get to work, right? But now I know it's more important than ever that they share my values, right? Because they're important to me, and that's how you move forward. And I think the other one, if I had to say, the bigger I get, the more important good data, is to make decisions like, if I just don't have good data, it's very difficult. I'm just guessing and and the better the data, the better decisions well. Michael Hingson  53:32 So the the other thing that comes to mind when you talked about doing a lot of free work and jobs that you wouldn't necessarily take today, I don't know how much it really entered into your mindset, but think of all the knowledge you gathered by doing that that you might not have ever gotten. Yeah. Chris Dreyer  53:49 I mean, that's true, and a lot of other people wouldn't have done those jobs, so that's kind of some unique perspectives. Michael Hingson  53:56 Yeah, I when I hired sales people, one of the first things I always told them was, you're coming into this be a student for at least the first year. Don't hesitate to ask questions of your customers, because they're not if you gain their trust at all. They're not in it to see you fail. They want you to succeed, but they want to be able to trust you. And so there's a lot to be said for being a student, asking questions and learning from that. I agree. I agree, which makes a lot of sense. What's the biggest misconception that lawyers typically have about marketing? Chris Dreyer  54:33 They underestimate how many dollars and what it takes for someone to actually be memorable or build a brand. I talked to, I heard Alex hermosi talking recently about, you know, no one really knew who Jennifer Lawrence was before the mockingbird movie, and they spent $50 million on advertising for that movie. And then, oh, suddenly, everyone knows who she is. But it took $50 million To do so. I think a lot of times people think they oversaturate a channel when they haven't even scratched the possibilities or the capabilities of a particular channel. Michael Hingson  55:10 How do you help lawyers break through that misconception? I agree with what you're saying. I hear it a lot, in so many ways, but how do you break through that and get them to understand the value. Chris Dreyer  55:22 It's a dance, yeah, you know, I try to get them to look at the blended cost to acquire a case, as opposed to, you know, the CAC to LTV ratio, versus trying to pinpoint each individual channel and but it is try to try to solve with data and proof over, you know, guesses, but or promises, but it is always a song and dance. Michael Hingson  55:52 The data and proof is out there. If people can learn to look for it, it's, it's, the reality is, mostly it's not a guess, but you have to know where to look or learn how to find the data to be able to get the answers that you need to demonstrate that marketing is just as valuable as anything else. I mean, there's so many strong lessons about marketing. We talked about Morgan and Morgan, but think about it, he's out there doing TV commercials all the time, and I'm sure that that's helping his company. He and Ultima continuing to to grow, and now they got the boys all in it. And the reality is they've demonstrated that they understand something about what marketing is all about. I remember back a long time ago when it was taboo for lawyers to even advertise. And then a couple of companies out here started to do it. And finally, people realized there's a lot of value in marketing. Chris Dreyer  56:50 Absolutely. And Michael, I should have said this in advance. I've got a I got a hard stop, I got a I got a hat, I got a client call here in two minutes. Michael Hingson  56:59 Well, then let me just ask, is there anything else that you want to add? Or how can people reach out to you if they'd like to do that? Chris Dreyer  57:06 Well, first of all, I really enjoyed our conversation, so thank you for having me. Yeah, you know, for anybody that has a question or wants to connect with me, the best way to get in touch with me is by email. I'm an inbox zero guy. It's Chris, C, H, R, i s@rankings.io I'm most active on LinkedIn. You'll just do a search for Chris Dreyer, and you'll find me cool. Michael Hingson  57:29 Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for tuning in today, wherever you are, I'd love to hear from you. Love your thoughts on the podcast. Give us an email at Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, also, you can listen to any of our podcasts. They're all available. And you can find us at Michael hingson.com/podcast and you can see and hear all the episodes that you want from there. Please give us a five star review and great rating wherever you're listening and watching us, we value it a lot. And if you know anyone who you think might be able to be a good guest, love to hear from you. Chris, you as well. If you know anybody else who you think ought to be a guest, I'd love to definitely get your help to bring them on, because we're looking for all the people who want to come on and show that we're all more unstoppable than we think. But again, I want to just thank you for being here today. Chris Dreyer  58:20 Thank you, Michael. I really enjoyed it. Michael Hingson  58:26 Thank you for being here with me on unstoppable mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about if you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others. I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, blinded by fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening, keep learning, keep questioning and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset you.

Send us Fan MailGet an exclusive price for vidIQ! https://link.vidiq.com/podcastWant a 1 on 1 coach? https://vidiq.ink/theboost1on1Join our Discord! https://www.vidiq.com/discordWe explore how to grow a cooking channel without losing your soul to the algorithm, from first uploads and analytics to revenue, burnout, and rebuilding a sustainable creative practice. Brian shares hard-won lessons on craft, pacing, sponsorships, and setting boundaries.• defining the Venn diagram of values, audience, and algorithm• who the channel serves and why deep testing matters• switching from restaurants to consulting to YouTube• early gardening detour and pivot to food content• voiceover structure and cinematic b-roll choices• analytics that shape pacing and openings• resisting views-maxing and stunt food trends• production realities of recipe videos and redos• staircase growth model and reading signals• when to quit a job and why savings matter• brand deals, agents, and scaling output• grief, burnout, and nervous system costs• rebuilding boundaries and redefining success• service-first strategy and durable creator businessIf you're new here, of course, you can hit that subscribe button on YouTube

We are starting something new today, a series on feeling alive!Today's question: What makes you feel alive?I'll see you next week for the next part of our series.Here is the very fun Venn diagram that I reference today:Find it here if for example you are in your favorite podcast app, and it doesn't support images.Thanks for being here. See you for part two next week!KayNuts & BoltsDreamers and Doers Group: Click this link to to learn about the online community I created to do just that… Be in community together. View Art Creativity & Wellbeing in YouTube here, find it in your favorite podcast app, or subscribe below so it shows up right into your inbox.Art Creativity & Wellbeing is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kaylockkolp.substack.com/subscribe

Longevity science is shifting fast. New discoveries are revealing that aging may be influenced not just by genetics or lifestyle, but by specific nutrients that regulate cellular health. In this episode of Habits & Hustle, I sit down with Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson to explore the discovery of C15, a fatty acid that emerged from decades of research studying Navy dolphins. Her work suggests that declining C15 levels may weaken cell membranes, accelerate aging, and increase vulnerability to metabolic disease. We break down how this molecule works, why not all saturated fats are the same, and how modern dietary shifts away from full-fat dairy may be contributing to widespread nutrient deficiencies. We also discuss how C15 interacts with longevity pathways like AMPK and mTOR, the same pathways targeted by drugs like metformin and rapamycin, and why researchers believe C15 may function as a geroprotector — a compound capable of slowing biological aging. Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson is a veterinary epidemiologist, CEO of Seraphina Therapeutics, and author of The Longevity Nutrient. Her work bridges marine biology, epidemiology, and human longevity science to uncover how nutrition influences cellular aging. What's Discussed (07:48) How studying Navy dolphins led to a breakthrough in longevity research (10:31) Why dolphins are a powerful model for studying human aging (16:04) The discovery of C15 and its role in metabolic health (17:33) Why not all saturated fats are harmful (20:25) How C15 interacts with longevity pathways like mTOR and AMPK (22:23) How modern diets may be creating a widespread C15 deficiency (24:30) The link between C15 deficiency and accelerated cellular aging (27:11) How dairy fat became the primary source of C15 in humans (31:18) Why C15 may qualify as a “geroprotector” (34:28) How to measure C15 levels through blood testing (39:23) Signs of cellular fragility and biological aging in blood markers (43:02) How C15 may influence inflammation and autoimmune conditions (50:20) The lifestyle factors that matter most for longevity (55:17) Other ways to increase C15 levels through diet and exercise Thank you to our sponsors: Rho Nutrition: Try Rho Nutrition today and experience the difference of Liposomal Technology. Use code JEN20 for 20% OFF everything at https://rhonutrition.com/discount/jen20  Prolon: Get 30% off sitewide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their 5-Day Program! Just visit https://prolonlife.com/JENNIFERCOHEN and use code JENNIFERCOHEN to claim your discount and your bonus gift. Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off  Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code HUSTLE40 for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. Momentous: Shop this link and use code Jen for 20% off  Manna Vitality: Visit mannavitality.com and use code JENNIFER20 for 20% off your order  Amp fit is the perfect balance of tech and training, designed for people who do it all and still want to feel strong doing it. Check it out at joinamp.com/jen   Find more from Jen:  Website: https://jennifercohen.com Instagram: @therealjencohen Books: https://jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Stephanie Venn-Watson: Website: https://fatty15.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fatty15/?hl=it  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanievennwatson/ Book: The Longevity Nutrient

“Fidel Castro told his aides, ‘We're going to fill his arms with shit.' That is an example of weaponised migration. What we're experiencing now is on a thermonuclear scale.” — Peter SchweizerIs best selling writer Peter Schweizer a conspiracy theorist? He doesn't think so. His new book, The Invisible Coup: How American Elites and Foreign Powers Use Immigration as a Weapon, argues that Mexico, China, and the Muslim Brotherhood are using mass migration as a strategic tool to undermine the United States. Not in a coordinated conspiracy—but as a confluence of interests, what he calls a “Venn diagram” of enemies who overlap on one point: transforming America through its borders.Rather than an axis of evil, then, we have a Venn diagram of foreign governments filling America with shitty immigrants. The world according to Peter Schweizer.Some of the claims are more credible than others. Mexico operates 53 consulates in the US—the UK has six. A dozen senior Mexican officials live full-time in the United States while serving in Mexico's parliament, and one of them crossed the country in 2025 to, in his own words, “organise the militancy” against the Trump administration. Chinese birth tourism, encouraged by the CCP, has produced an estimated million children born on US soil who are growing up in China—future voters, donors, and government employees. Hong Kong banned the practice in 2013, calling it subversion. And look at Hong Kong's predicament now.Other claims are harder to take seriously. The idea that Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum is a revanchist who wants to seize back California strikes me as Latin American magical realism—though Schweizer quotes Mexican officials saying exactly that. And the “Muslim Brotherhood” (whatever that is), which isn't in power anywhere, is no more of a threat to the United States than the Ottoman Empire. I pushed him on whether all immigrants are Manchurian candidates. He says no—but Schweizer's Invisible Coup could easily be confused with silly script for a paranoid Hollywood fantasy.There is, of course, a bit of an irony here. Schweizer's own parents were immigrants—his father Swiss, his mother Swedish. He grew up outside Seattle. His mother warned him, as a young man, about the terrible dangers of Swedish socialism. He favours “some legal immigration”—and sounds almost surprised at his liberal self for saying so. The American dream, he insists, is not dead. It's just being exploited by foreign powers who see America's open borders as a strategic vulnerability. Castro's Mariel boatlift is the model that Claudia Sheinbaum and the Moslem Brotherhood are trying to emulate. Pass the popcorn. Five Takeaways•       Immigration Has Been Weaponised: Schweizer argues that Mexico, China, and the Muslim Brotherhood are using mass migration as a strategic tool to undermine the United States. Not in a single conspiracy—but as a confluence of interests, a Venn diagram of enemies who overlap on one point: transforming America through its borders.•       Mexico Has 53 Consulates in the US. The UK Has Six: Schweizer's most striking claim: a dozen senior Mexican officials now live full-time in the US, serving in Mexico's parliament, organising what one of them calls “the militancy” against the Trump administration. Mexican consulates have met with Democratic activists to discuss how to flip states from red to blue.•       A Million US Citizens Are Being Raised in China: Chinese birth tourism, encouraged by the CCP, has produced an estimated million children born on US soil who are growing up in China. When they turn 18, they can vote, donate to candidates, and take government jobs. Hong Kong banned the practice in 2013, calling it subversion.•       The Son of Immigrants Who Fears Immigration: Schweizer's own parents were immigrants—his father Swiss, his mother Swedish. He grew up outside Seattle. His mother warned him about Swedish socialism. He favours “some legal immigration” but wants the weaponised networks dismantled first. The irony is not lost.•       The American Dream Is Not Dead—It's Being Exploited: Schweizer insists he's not arguing against immigration itself. The dream survives, he says, but it's being exploited by foreign powers who see America's open borders as a strategic vulnerability. Castro's Mariel boatlift was the template. What's happening now, he says, is the same thing on a thermonuclear scale. About the GuestPeter Schweizer is president of the Government Accountability Institute and a former fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University. He is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of The Invisible Coup, Red-Handed, Blood Money, and Clinton Cash. He received his M.Phil. from Oxford University. He lives in Tallahassee, Florida.ReferencesBooks and references:•       Red-Handed: How American Elites Get Rich Helping China Win by Peter Schweizer•       Blood Money: Why the Powerful Turn a Blind Eye While China Kills Americans by Peter Schweizer•       The Mariel boatlift of 1980—Fidel Castro's template for weaponised immigration•       The Manchurian Candidate — referenced in the conversation•       China's National Intelligence Law (2017)—requiring any Chinese national to perform intelligence duties when askedAbout Keen On AmericaNobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States—hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,800 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.WebsiteSubstackYouTubeApple PodcastsSpotify Chapters:(00:00) - Introduction: Is Peter Schweizer a conspiracy theorist? (02:37) - The cover: Sheinbaum, Xi, AOC, Obama, Biden (04:57) - Good immigrants and bad immigrants (05:51) - The Mariel boatlift as template: Castro's “fill his arms with shit” (08:24...

From chip design at Bell Laboratories to…the world's #1 Venn diagram comedian?? Today, we're talking to Don McMillan, comedian and former chip designer at Bell Laboratories. We discuss how burning out in Silicon Valley led him to pursue stand-up comedy full time, why having an engineering mindset made him a better comedian, and how a random radio caller unknowingly changed the entire trajectory of his life. All of this right here, right now, on the Modern CTO Podcast!  To learn more about Don and his tour schedule, check out his website here

Venn diagrams A fashion expert comes to help Alex on his glow up journey! We answer a listener's very important and relatable question LINKS TICKETS TO MATT OKINE AUSTRALIAN COMEDY TOUR HERE If you've got something to add to the show, slide into our DMs @matt.and.alex at https://bit.ly/mattandalex-ig CREDITSHosts: Matt Okine and Alex Dyson Produced by: Bronwyn Dojcsak Post Production: Linc Kelly Find more great podcasts like this at www.listnr.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode, we sit down again with veterinary epidemiologist and Fatty15 co-founder Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson to explore the emerging science behind C15:0, an odd-chain saturated fatty acid increasingly recognized as potentially essential for human health. The conversation begins by addressing skepticism and online claims that C15:0 research is a "scam," before diving into the human and epidemiological evidence showing that higher circulating levels of C15:0 are associated with lower cardiometabolic disease risk. Dr. Venn-Watson explains why not all saturated fats behave the same biologically, contrasting C15:0 with C16 and highlighting C15:0's unique properties including anti-inflammatory effects, mitochondrial support, and protection against cellular stress. Together they explore how modern dietary patterns may have reduced natural intake of this nutrient, what the latest clinical and mechanistic research suggests about aging and metabolic health, and why continuing to challenge long-standing nutrition dogma requires following the data wherever it leads. ----- 00:00 – The "C15 Essential Fatty Acid Scam" Debate 02:08 – Why Critics Say There Isn't Enough Human Evidence 06:35 – Dolphin Research That Led to the Discovery of C15 11:15 – Epidemiology: Higher C15 and Lower Cardiometabolic Risk 16:05 – Saturated Fat: Why the Narrative May Be Oversimplified 21:30 – C15 vs C16: Not All Saturated Fats Are the Same 27:05 – What Makes a Fat Truly "Essential" 32:10 – The "Goldilocks Fat": Why C15 Stands Out 38:20 – Anti-Inflammatory vs Pro-Inflammatory Fats 44:40 – Mitochondria, Cellular Stability, and Longevity 51:15 – Ferroptosis and Protecting Cells From Oxidative Damage 57:50 – Are We Aging Faster Without Enough C15? 1:05:10 – Why Modern Diets May Be Lower in C15 1:12:30 – How Scientists Follow the Data, Even Against Dogma 1:21:50 – What "Ever Forward" Means in Science and Life ----- Episode resources: Stephanie's first appearance on the show in episode 832 Save 15% with code EVERFORWARD at https://www.Fatty15.com/everforward

The reception to our recent post on Code Reviews has been strong. Catch up!Amid a maelstrom of discussion on whether or not AI is killing SaaS, one of the top publicly listed SaaS companies in the world has just reported record revenues, clearing well over $1.1B in ARR for the first time with a 28% margin. As we comment on the pod, Aaron Levie is the rare public company CEO equally at home in both worlds of Silicon Valley and Wall Street/Main Street, by day helping 70% of the Fortune 500 with their Enterprise Advanced Suite, and yet by night is often found in the basements of early startups and tweeting viral insights about the future of agents.Now that both Cursor, Cloudflare, Perplexity, Anthropic and more have made Filesystems and Sandboxes and various forms of “Just Give the Agent a Box” cool (not just cool; it is now one of the single hottest areas in AI infrastructure growing 100% MoM), we find it a delightfully appropriate time to do the episode with the OG CEO who has been giving humans and computers Boxes since he was a college dropout pitching VCs at a Michael Arrington house party.Enjoy our special pod, with fan favorite returning guest/guest cohost Jeff Huber!Note: We didn't directly discuss the AI vs SaaS debate - Aaron has done many, many, many other podcasts on that, and you should read his definitive essay on it. Most commentators do not understand SaaS businesses because they have never scaled one themselves, and deeply reflected on what the true value proposition of SaaS is.We also discuss Your Company is a Filesystem:We also shoutout CTO Ben Kus' and the AI team, who talked about the technical architecture and will return for AIE WF 2026.Full Video EpisodeTimestamps* 00:00 Adapting Work for Agents* 01:29 Why Every Agent Needs a Box* 04:38 Agent Governance and Identity* 11:28 Why Coding Agents Took Off First* 21:42 Context Engineering and Search Limits* 31:29 Inside Agent Evals* 33:23 Industries and Datasets* 35:22 Building the Agent Team* 38:50 Read Write Agent Workflows* 41:54 Docs Graphs and Founder Mode* 55:38 Token FOMO Culture* 56:31 Production Function Secrets* 01:01:08 Film Roots to Box* 01:03:38 AI Future of Movies* 01:06:47 Media DevRel and EngineeringTranscriptAdapting Work for AgentsAaron Levie: Like you don't write code, you talk to an agent and it goes and does it for you, and you may be at best review it. That's even probably like, like largely not even what you're doing. What's happening is we are changing our work to make the agents effective. In that model, the agent didn't really adapt to how we work.We basically adapted to how the agent works. All of the economy has to go through that exact same evolution. Right now, it's a huge asset and an advantage for the teams that do it early and that are kinda wired into doing this ‘cause you'll see compounding returns. But that's just gonna take a while for most companies to actually go and get this deployed.swyx: Welcome to the Lane Space Pod. We're back in the chroma studio with uh, chroma, CEO, Jeff Hoover. Welcome returning guest now guest host.Aaron Levie: It's a pleasure. Wow. How'd you get upgraded to, uh, to that?swyx: Because he's like the perfect guy to be guest those for you.Aaron Levie: That makes sense actually, for We love context. We, we both really love context le we really do.We really do.swyx: Uh, and we're here with, uh, Aaron Levy. Welcome.Aaron Levie: Thank you. Good to, uh, good to be [00:01:00] here.swyx: Uh, yeah. So we've all met offline and like chatted a little bit, but like, it's always nice to get these things in person and conversation. Yeah. You just started off with so much energy. You're, you're super excited about agents.I loveAaron Levie: agents.swyx: Yeah. Open claw. Just got by, got bought by OpenAI. No, not bought, but you know, you know what I mean?Aaron Levie: Some, some, you know, acquihire. Executiveswyx: hire.Aaron Levie: Executive hire. Okay. Executive hire. Say,swyx: hey, that's my term. Okay. Um, what are you pounding the table on on agents? You have so many insightful tweets.Why Every Agent Needs a BoxAaron Levie: Well, the thing that, that we get super excited by that I think is probably, you know, should be relatively obvious is we've, we've built a platform to help enterprises manage their files and their, their corporate files and the permissions of who has access to those files and the sharing collaboration of those files.All of those files contain really, really important information for the enterprise. It might have your contracts, it might have your research materials, it might have marketing information, it might have your memos. All that data obviously has, you know, predominantly been used by humans. [00:02:00] But there's been one really interesting problem, which is that, you know, humans only really work with their files during an active engagement with them, and they kind of go away and you don't really see them for a long time.And all of a sudden, uh, with the power of AI and AI agents, all of that data becomes extremely relevant as this ongoing source of, of answers to new questions of data that will transform into, into something else that, that produces value in your organization. It, it contains the answer to the new employee that's onboarding, that needs to ramp up on a project.Um, it contains the answer to the right thing to sell a customer when you're having a conversation to them, with them contains the roadmap information that's gonna produce the next feature. So all that data. That previously we've been just sort of storing and, and you know, occasionally forgetting about, ‘cause we're only working on the new active stuff.All of that information becomes valuable to the enterprise and it's gonna become extremely valuable to end users because now they can have agents go find what they're looking for and produce new, new [00:03:00] value and new data on that information. And it's gonna become incredibly valuable to agents because agents can roam around and do a bunch of work and they're gonna need access to that data as well.And um, and you know, sometimes that will be an agent that is sort of working on behalf of, of, of you and, and effectively as you as and, and they are kind of accessing all of the same information that you have access to and, and operating as you in the system. And then sometimes there's gonna be agents that are just.Effectively autonomous and kind of run on their own and, and you're gonna collaborate and work with them kind of like you did another person. Open Claw being the most recent and maybe first real sort of, you know, kind of, you know, up updating everybody's, you know, views of this landscape version of, of what that could look like, which is, okay, I have an agent.It's on its own system, it's on its own computer, it has access to its own tools. I probably don't give it access to my entire life. I probably communicate with it like I would an assistant or a colleague and then it, it sort of has this sandbox environment. So all of that has massive implications for a platform that manage that [00:04:00] enterprise data.We think it's gonna just transform how we work with all of the enterprise content that we work with, and we just have to make sure we're building the right platform to support that.swyx: The sort of shorthand I put it is as people build agents, everybody's just realizing that every agent needs a box. Yes.And it's nice to be called box and just give everyone a box.Aaron Levie: Hey, I if I, you know, if we can make that go viral, uh, like I, I think that that terminology, I, that's theswyx: tagline. Every agentAaron Levie: needs a box. Every agent needs a box. If we can make that the headline of this, I'm fine with this. And that's the billboard I wanna like Yeah, exactly.Every agent needs a box. Um, I like it. Can we ship this? Like,swyx: okay, let's do it. Yeah.Aaron Levie: Uh, my work here is done and I got the value I needed outta this podcast Drinks.swyx: Yeah.Agent Governance and IdentityAaron Levie: But, but, um, but, but, you know, so the thing that we, we kind of think about is, um, is, you know, whether you think the number 10 x or a hundred x or whatever the number is, we're gonna have some order of magnitude more agents than people.That's inevitable. It has to happen. So then the question is, what is the infrastructure that's needed to make all those agents effective in the enterprise? Make sure that they are well governed. Make sure they're only doing [00:05:00] safe things on your information. Make sure that they're not getting exposed. The data that they shouldn't have access to.There's gonna be just incredibly spectacularly crazy security incidents that will happen with agents because you'll prompt, inject an agent and sort of find your way through the CRM system and pull out data that you shouldn't have access to. Oh, weJeff Huber: have God,Aaron Levie: right? I mean, that's just gonna happen all over the place, right?So, so then the thing is, is how do you make sure you have the right security, the permissions, the access controls, the data governance. Um, we actually don't yet exactly know in many cases how we're gonna regulate some of these agents, right? If you think about an agent in financial services, does it have the exact same financial sort of, uh, requirements that a human did?Or is it, is the risk fully on the human that was interacting or created the agent? All open questions, but no matter what, there's gonna need to be a layer that manages the, the data they have access to, the workflows that they're involved in, pulling up data from multiple systems. This is the new infrastructure opportunity in the era of agents.swyx: You have a piece on agent identities, [00:06:00] which I think was today, um, which I think a lot of breaking news, the security, security people are talking about, right? Like you basically, I, I always think of this as like, well you need the human you and then there you need the agent. YouAaron Levie: Yes.swyx: And uh, well, I don't know if it's that simple, but is box going to have an opinion on that or you're just gonna be like, well we're just the sort of the, the source layer.Yeah. Let's Okta of zero handle that.Aaron Levie: I think we're gonna have an opinion and we will work with generally wherever the contours of the market end up. Um, and the reason that we're gonna have an opinion more than other topics probably is because one of the biggest use cases for why your agent might need it, an identity is for file system access.So thus we have to kind of think about this pretty deeply. And I think, uh, unless you're like in our world thinking about this particular problem all day long, it might be, you know, like, why is this such a big deal? And the reason why it's a really big deal is because sometimes sort of say, well just give the agent an, an account on the system and it just treats, treat it like every other type of user on the system.The [00:07:00] problem is, is that I as Aaron don't really have any responsibility over anybody else's box account in our organization. I can't see the box account of any other employee that I work with. I am not liable for anything that they do. And they have, I have, I have, you know, strict privacy requirements on everything that they're able to, you know, that, that, that they work on.Agents don't have that, you know, don't have those properties. The person who creates the agent probably is gonna, for the foreseeable future, take on a lot of the liability of what that agent does. That agent doesn't deserve any privacy because, because it's, you know, it can't fully be autonomously operated and it doesn't have any legal, you know, kind of, you know, responsibility.So thus you can't just be like, oh, well I'll just create a bunch of accounts and then I'll, I'll kind of work with that agent and I'll talk to it occasionally. Like you need oversight of that. And so then the question is, how do you have a world where the agent, sometimes you have oversight of, but what if that agent goes and works with other people?That person over there is collaborating with the agent on something you shouldn't have [00:08:00] access to what they're doing. So we have all of these new boundaries that we're gonna have to figure out of, of, you know, it's really, really easy. So far we've been in, in easy mode. We've hit the easy button with ai, which is the agent just is you.And when you're in quad code and you're in cursor, and you're in Codex, you're just, the agent is you. You're offing into your services. It can do everything you can do. That's the easy mode. The hard mode is agents are kind of running on their own. People check in with them occasionally, they're doing things autonomously.How do you give them access to resources in the enterprise and not dramatically increased the security risk and the risk that you might expose the wrong thing to somebody. These are all the new problems that we have to get solved. I like the identity layer and, and identity vendors as being a solution to that, but we'll, we'll need some opinions as well because so many of the use cases are these collaborative file system use cases, which is how do I give it an agent, a subset of my data?Give it its own workspace as well. ‘cause it's gonna need to store off its own information that would be relevant for it. And how do I have the right oversight into that? [00:09:00]Jeff Huber: One thing, which, um, I think is kind interesting, think about is that you know, how humans work, right? Like I may not also just like give you access to the whole file.I might like sit next to you and like scroll to this like one part of the file and just show you that like one part and like, you know,swyx: partial file access.Jeff Huber: I'm just saying I think like our, like RA does seem to be dead, right? Like you wanna say something is dead uhhuh probably RA is dead. And uh, like the auth story to me seems like incredibly unsolved and unaddressed by like the existing state of like AI vendors.ButAaron Levie: yeah, I think, um, we're, I mean you're taking obviously really to level limit that we probably need to solve for. Yeah. And we built an access control system that was, was kind of like, you know, its own little world for, for a long time. And um, and the idea was this, it's a many to many collaboration system where I can give you any part of the file system.And it's a waterfall model. So if I give you higher up in the, in the, in the system, you get everything below. And that, that kind of created immense flexibility because I can kind of point you to any layer in the, in the tree, but then you're gonna get access to everything kind of below it. And that [00:10:00] mostly is, is working in this, in this world.But you do have to manage this issue, which is how do I create an agent that has access to some of my stuff and somebody else's stuff as well. Mm-hmm. And which parts do I get to look at as the creator of the agent? And, and these are just brand new problems? Yeah. Crazy. And humans, when there was a human there that was really easy to do.Like, like if the three of us were all sharing, there'd be a Venn diagram where we'd have an overlapping set of things we've shared, but then we'd have our own ways that we shared with each other. In an agent world, somebody needs to take responsibility for what that agent has access to and what they're working on.These are like the, some of the most probably, you know, boring problems for 98% of people on, on the internet, but they will be the problems that are the difference between can you actually have autonomous agents in an enterprise contextswyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: That are not leaking your data constantly.swyx: No. Like, I mean, you know, I run a very, very small company for my conference and like we already have data sensitivity issues.Yes. And some of my team members cannot see Yes. Uh, the others and like, I can't imagine what it's like to run a Fortune 500 and like, you have to [00:11:00] worry about this. I'm just kinda curious, like you, you talked to a lot like, like 70, 80% of your cus uh, of the Fortune 500, your customers.Aaron Levie: Yep. 67%. Just so we're being verySEswyx: precise.So Yeah. I'm notAaron Levie: Okay. Okay.swyx: Something I'm rounding up. Yes. Round up. I'm projecting to, forAaron Levie: the government.swyx: I'm projecting to the end of the year.Aaron Levie: Okay.swyx: There you go.Aaron Levie: You do make it sound like, like we, we, well we've gotta be on this. Like we're, we're taking way too long to get to 80%. Well,swyx: no, I mean, so like. How are they approaching it?Right? Because you're, you don't have a, you don't have a final answer yet.Why Coding Agents Took Off FirstAaron Levie: Well, okay, so, so this is actually, this is the stark reality that like, unfortunately is the kinda like pouring the water on the party a little bit.swyx: Yes.Aaron Levie: We all in Silicon Valley are like, have the absolute best conditions possible for AI ever.And I think we all saw the dke, you know, kind of Dario podcast and this idea of AI coding. Why is that taken off? And, and we're not yet fully seeing it everywhere else. Well, look, if you just like enumerated the list of properties that AI coding has and then compared it to other [00:12:00] knowledge work, let's just, let's just go through a few of them.Generally speaking, you bring on a new engineer, they have access to a large swath of the code base. Like, there's like very, like you, just, like new engineer comes on, they can just go and find the, the, the stuff that they, they need to work with. It's a fully text in text out. Medium. It's only, it's just gonna be text at the end of the day.So it's like really great from a, from just a, uh, you know, kinda what the agent can work with. Obviously the models are super trained on that dataset. The labs themselves have a really strong, kind of self-reinforcing positive flywheel of why they need to do, you know, agent coding deeply. So then you get just better tooling, better services.The actual developers of the AI are daily users of the, of the thing that they're we're working on versus like the, you know, probably there's only like seven Claude Cowork legal plugin users at Anthropic any given day, but there's like a couple thousand Claude code and you know, users every single day.So just like, think about which one are they getting more feedback on. All day long. So you just go through this list. You have a, you know, everybody who's a [00:13:00] developer by definition is technical so they can go install the latest thing. We're all generally online, or at least, you know, kinda the weird ones are, and we're all talking to each other, sharing best practices, like that's like already eight differences.Versus the rest of the economy. Every other part of the economy has like, like six to seven headwinds relative to that list. You go into a company, you're a banker in financial services, you have access to like a, a tiny little subset of the total data that's gonna be relevant to do your job. And you're have to start to go and talk to a bunch of people to get the right data to do your job because Sally didn't add you to that deal room, you know, folder.And that that, you know, the information is actually in a completely different organization that you now have to go in and, and sort of run into. And it's like you have this endless list of access controls and security. As, as you talked about, you have a medium, which is not, it's not just text, right? You have, you have a zoom call that, that you're getting all of the requirements from the customer.You have a lot of in-person conversations and you're doing in-person sales and like how do you ever [00:14:00] digitize all of that information? Um, you know, I think a lot of people got upset with this idea that the code base has all the context, um, that I don't know if you follow, you know, did you follow some of that conversation that that went viral?Is like, you know, it's not that simple that, that the code base doesn't have all the knowledge, but like it's a lot, you're a lot better off than you are with other areas of knowledge work. Like you, we like, we like have documentation practices, you write specifications. Those things don't exist for like 80% of work that happens in the enterprise.That's the divide that we have, which is, which is AI coding has, has just fully, you know, where we've reached escape velocity of how powerful this stuff is, and then we're gonna have to find a way to bring that same energy and momentum, but to all these other areas of knowledge work. Where the tools aren't there, the data's not set up to be there.The access controls don't make it that easy. The context engineering is an incredibly hard problem because again, you have access control challenges, you have different data formats. You have end users that are gonna need to kind of be kind of trained through this as opposed to their adopting [00:15:00] these tools in their free time.That's where the Fortune 500 is. And so we, I think, you know, have to be prepared as an industry where we are gonna be on a multi-year march to, to be able to bring agents to the enterprise for these workflows. And I think probably the, the thing that we've learned most in coding that, that the rest of the world is not yet, I think ready for, I mean, we're, they'll, they'll have to be ready for it because it's just gonna inevitably happen is I think in coding.What, what's interesting is if you think about the practice of coding today versus two years ago. It's probably the most changed workflow in maybe the history of time from the amount of time it's changed, right? Yeah. Like, like has any, has any workflow in the entire economy changed that quickly in terms of the amount of change?I just, you know, at least in any knowledge worker workflow, there's like very rarely been an event where one piece of technology and work practice has so fundamentally, you know, changed, changed what you do. Like you don't write code, you talk to an agent and it goes and [00:16:00] does it for you, and you may be at best review it.And even that's even probably like, like largely not even what you're doing. What's happening is we are changing our work to make the agents effective. In that model, the agent didn't really adapt to how we work. We basically adapted to how the agent works. Mm-hmm. All of the economy has to go through that exact same evolution.The rest of the economy is gonna have to update its workflows to make agents effective. And to give agents the context that they need and to actually figure out what kind of prompting works and to figure out how do you ensure that the agent has the right access to information to be able to execute on its work.I, you know, this is not the panacea that people were hoping for, of the agent drops in, just automates your life. Like you have to basically re-engineer your workflow to get the most out of agents and, uh, and that, that's just gonna take, you know, multiple years across the economy. Right now it's a huge asset and an advantage for the teams that do it early and that are kinda wired into doing this.‘cause [00:17:00] you'll see compounding returns, but that's just gonna take a while for most companies to actually go and get this deployed.swyx: I love, I love pushing back. I think that. That is what a lot of technology consultants love to hear this sort of thing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. First to, to embrace the ai. Yes. To get to the promised land, you must pay me so much money to a hundred percent to adopt the prescribed way of, uh, conforming to the agents.Yes. And I worry that you will be eclipsed by someone else who says, no, come as you are.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And we'll meet you where you are.Aaron Levie: And, and, and and what was the thing that went viral a week ago? OpenAI probably, uh, is hiring F Dees. Yeah. Uh, to go into the enterprise. Yeah. Yeah. And then philanthropic is embedded at Goldman Sachs.Yeah. So if the labs are having to do this, if, if the labs have decided that they need to hire FDE and professional services, then I think that's a pretty clear indication that this, there's no easy mode of workflow transformation. Yeah. Yeah. So, so to your point, I think actually this is a market opportunity for, you know, new professional services and consulting [00:18:00] firms that are like Agent Build and they, and they kind of, you know, go into organizations and they figure out how to re-engineer your workflows to make them more agent ready and get your data into the right format and, you know, reconstruct your business process.So you're, you're not doing most of the work. You're telling agents how to do the work and then you're reviewing it. But I haven't seen the thing that can just drop in and, and kinda let you not go through those changes.swyx: I don't know how that kind of sales pitch goes over. Yeah. You know, you're, you're saying things like, well, in my sort of nice beautiful walled garden, here's, there's, uh, because here's this, here's this beautiful box account that has everything.Yes. And I'm like, well, most, most real life is extremely messy. Sure. And like, poorly named and there duplicate this outdated s**tAaron Levie: a hundred percent. And so No, no, a hundred percent. And so this is actually No. So, so this is, I mean, we agree that, that getting to the beautiful garden is gonna be tough.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: There's also the other end of the spectrum where I, I just like, it's a technical impossibility to solve. The agent is, is truly cannot get enough context to make the right decision in, in the, in the incredibly messy land. Like there's [00:19:00] no a GI that will solve that. So, so we're gonna have to kind of land in somewhere in between, which is like we all collectively get better at.Documentation practices and, and having authoritative relatively up-to-date information and putting it in the right place like agents will, will certainly cause us to be much better organized around how we work with our information, simply because the severity of the agent pulling the wrong data will be too high and the productivity gain of that you'll miss out on by not doing this will be too high as well, that you, that your competition will just do it and they'll just have higher velocity.So, uh, and, and we, we see this a lot firsthand. So we, we build a series of agents internally that they can kind of have access to your full box account and go off and you give it a task and it can go find whatever information you're looking for and work with. And, you know, thank God for the model progress, but like, if, if you gave that task to an agent.Nine months ago, you're just gonna get lots of bogus answers because it's gonna, it's gonna say, Hey, here's, here are fi [00:20:00] five, you know, documents that all kind of smell like the right thing. And I'm gonna, but I, but you're, you're putting me on the clock. ‘cause my assistant prompt says like, you know, be pretty smart, but also try and respond to the user and it's gonna respond.And it's like, ah, it got the wrong document. And then you do that once or twice as a knowledge worker and you're just neverswyx: again,Aaron Levie: never again. You're just like done with the system.swyx: Yeah. It doesn't work.Aaron Levie: It doesn't work. And so, you know, Opus four six and Gemini three one Pro and you know, whatever the latest five 3G BT will be, like, those things are getting better and better and it's using better judgment.And this sort of like the, all of these updates to the agentic tool and search systems are, are, we're seeing, we're seeing very real progress where the agent. Kind of can, can almost smell some things a little bit fishy when it's getting, you know, we, we have this process where we, we have it go fan out, do a bunch of searches, pull up a bunch of data, and then it has to sort of do its own ranking of, you know, what are the right documents that, that it should be working with.And again, like, you know, the intelligence level of a model six months ago, [00:21:00] it'd be just throwing a dart at like, I'm just, I'm gonna grab these seven files and I, I pray, I hope that that's the right answer. And something like an opus first four five, and now four six is like, oh, it's like, no, that one doesn't seem right relative to this question because I'm seeing some signal that is making that, you know, that's contradicting the document where it would normally be in the tree and who should have access.Like it's doing all of that kind of work for you. But like, it still doesn't work if you just have a total wasteland of data. Like, it's just not, it's just not possible. Partly ‘cause a human wouldn't even be able to do it. So basically if a, if a really, really smart human. Could not do that task in five or 10 minutes for a search retrieval type task.Look, you know, your agent's not gonna be able to do it any better. You see this all day long. SoContext Engineering and Search Limitsswyx: this touches on a thing that just passionate about it was just context engineering. I, I'm just gonna let you ramble or riff on, on context engineering. If, if, if there's anything like he, he did really good work on context fraud, which has really taken over as like the term that people use and the referenceAaron Levie: a hundred percent.We, we all we think about is, is the context rob problem. [00:22:00]Jeff Huber: Yeah, there's certainly a lot of like ranking considerations. Gentech surgery think is incredibly promising. Um, yeah, I was trying to generate a question though. I think I have a question right now. Swyx.Aaron Levie: Yeah, no, but like, like I think there was this moment, um, you know, like, I don't know, two years ago before, before we knew like where the, the gotchas were gonna be in ai and I think someone was like, was like, well, infinite context windows will just solve all of these problems and ‘cause you'll just, you'll just give the context window like all the data and.It's just like, okay, I mean, maybe in 2035, like this is a viable solution. First of all, it, it would just, it would just simply cost too much. Like we just can't give the model like the 5,000 documents that might be relevant and it's gonna read them all. And I've seen enough to, to start believing in crazy stuff.So like, I'm willing to just say, sure. Like in, in 10 years from now,swyx: never say, never, never.Aaron Levie: In, in 10 years from now, we'll have infinite context windows at, at a thousandth of the price of today. Like, let's just like believe that that's possible, but Right. We're in reality today. So today we have a context engineering [00:23:00] problem, which is, I got, I got, you know, 200,000 tokens that I can work with, or prob, I don't even know what the latest graph is before, like massive degradation.16. Okay. I have 60,000 tokens that I get to work with where I'm gonna get accurate information. That's not a lot of tokens for a corpus of 10 million documents that a knowledge worker might have across all of the teams and all the projects and all the people they work with. I have, I have 10 million documents.Which, you know, maybe is times five pages per document or something like that. I'm at 50 million pages of information and I have 60,000 tokens. Like, holy s**t. Yeah. This is like, how do I bridge the 50 million pages of information with, you know, the couple hundred that I get to work with in that, in that token window.Yeah. This is like, this is like such an interesting problem and that's why actually so much work is actually like, just like search systems and the databases and that layer has to just get so locked in, but models getting better and importantly [00:24:00] knowing when they've done a search, they found the wrong thing, they go back, they check their work, they, they find a way to balance sort of appeasing the user versus double checking.We have this one, we have this one test case where we ask the agent to go find. 10 pieces of information.swyx: Is this the complex work eval?Aaron Levie: Uh, this is actually not in the eval. This is, this is sort of just like we have a bunch of different, we have a bunch of internal benchmark kind of scenarios. Every time we, we update our agent, we have one, which is, I ask it to find all of our office addresses, and I give it the list of 10 offices that we have.And there's not one document that has this, maybe there should be, that would be a great example of the kind of thing that like maybe over time companies start to, you know, have these sort of like, what are the canonical, you know, kind of key areas of knowledge that we need to have. We don't seem to have this one document that says, here are all of our offices.We have a bunch of documents that have like, here's the New York office and whatever. So you task this agent and you, you get, you say, I need the addresses for these 10 offices. Okay. And by the way, if you do this on any, you know, [00:25:00] public chat model, the same outcome is gonna happen. But for a different kind of query, you give it, you say, I need these 10 addresses.How many times should the agent go and do its search before it decides whether or not, there's just no answer to this question. Often, and especially the, the, let's say lower tier models, it'll come back and it'll give you six of the 10 addresses. And it'll, and I'll just say I couldn't find the otherswyx: four.It, it doesn't know what It doesn't know. ItAaron Levie: doesn't know what It doesn't know. Yeah. So the model is just like, like when should it stop? When should it stop doing? Like should it, should it do that task for literally an hour and just keep cranking through? Maybe I actually made up an office location and it doesn't know that I made it up and I didn't even know that I made it up.Like, should it just keep, re should it read every single file in your entire box account until it, until it should exhaust every single piece of information.swyx: Expensive.Aaron Levie: These are the new problems that we have. So, you know, something like, let's say a new opus model is sort of like, okay, I'm gonna try these types of queries.I didn't get exactly what I wanted. I'm gonna try again. I'm gonna, at [00:26:00] some point I'm gonna stop searching. ‘cause I've determined that that no amount of searching is gonna solve this problem. I'm just not able to do it. And that judgment is like a really new thing that the model needs to be able to have.It's like, when should it give up on a task? ‘cause, ‘cause you just don't, it's a can't find the thing. That's the real world of knowledge, work problems. And this is the stuff that the coding agents don't have to deal with. Because they, it just doesn't like, like you're not usually asking it about, you're, you're always creating net new information coming right outta the model for the most part.Obviously it has to know about your code base and your specs and your documentation, but, but when you deploy an agent on all of your data that now you have all of these new problems that you're dealing withJeff Huber: our, uh, follow follow-up research to context ride is actually on a genetic search. Ah. Um, and we've like right, sort of stress tested like frontier models and their ability to search.Um, and they're not actually that good at searching. Right. Uh, so you're sort of highlighting this like explore, exploit.swyx: You're just say, Debbie, Donna say everything doesn't work. Like,Aaron Levie: well,Jeff Huber: somebody has to be,Aaron Levie: um, can I just throw out one more thing? Yeah. That is different from coding and, and the rest [00:27:00] of the knowledge work that I, I failed to mention.So one other kind of key point is, is that, you know, at the end of the day. Whether you believe we're in a slop apocalypse or, or whatever. At the end of the day, if you, if you build a working product at the end of, if you, if you've built a working solution that is ultimately what the customer is paying for, like whether I have a lot of slop, a little slop or whatever, I'm sure there's lots of code bases we could go into in enterprise software companies where it's like just crazy slop that humans did over a 20 year period, but the end customer just gets this little interface.They can, they can type into it, it does its thing. Knowledge work, uh, doesn't have that property. If I have an AI model, go generate a contract and I generate a contract 20 times and, you know, all 20 times it's just 3% different and like that I, that, that kind of lop introduces all new kinds of risk for my organization that the code version of that LOP didn't, didn't introduce.These are, and so like, so how do you constrain these models to just the part that you want [00:28:00] them to work on and just do the thing that you want them to do? And, and, you know, in engineering, we don't, you can't be disbarred as an engineer, but you could be disbarred as a lawyer. Like you can do the wrong medical thing In healthcare, you, there's no, there's no equivalent to that of engineering.Like, doswyx: you want there to be, because I've considered softwareJeff Huber: engineer. What's that? Civil engineering there is, right? NotAaron Levie: software civil engineer. Sure. Oh yeah, for sure. But like in any of our companies, you like, you know, you'll be forgiven if you took down the site and, and we, we will do a rollback and you'll, you'll be in a meeting, but you have not been disbarred as an engineer.We don't, we don't change your, you know, your computer science, uh, blameJeff Huber: degree, this postmortem.Aaron Levie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, so, uh, now maybe we collectively as an industry need to figure out like, what are you liable for? Not legally, but like in a, in a management sense, uh, of these agents. All sorts of interesting problems that, that, that, uh, that have to come out.But in knowledge work, that's the real hostile environments that we're operating in. Hmm.swyx: I do think like, uh, a lot of the last year's, 2025 story was the rise of coding agents and I think [00:29:00] 2026 story is definitely knowledge work agents. Yes. A hundredAaron Levie: percent.swyx: Right. Like that would, and I think open claw core work are just the beginning.Yes. Like it's, the next one's gonna just gonna be absolute craziness.Aaron Levie: It it is. And, and, uh, and it's gonna be, I mean, again, like this is gonna be this, this wave where we, we are gonna try and bring as many of the practices from coding because that, that will clearly be the forefront, which is tell an agent to go do something and has an access to a set of resources.You need to be responsible for reviewing it at the end of the process. That to me is the, is the kind of template that I just think goes across knowledge, work and odd. Cowork is a great example. Open Closet's a great example. You can kind of, sort of see what Codex could become over time. These are some, some really interesting kind of platforms that are emerging.swyx: Okay. Um, I wanted to, we touched on evals a little bit. You had, you had the report that you're gonna go bring up and then I was gonna go into like, uh, boxes, evals, but uh, go ahead. Talk about your genetic search thing.Jeff Huber: Yeah. Mostly I think kinda a few of the insights. It's like number one frontier model is not good at search.Humans have this [00:30:00] natural explore, exploit trade off where we kinda understand like when to stop doing something. Also, humans are pretty good at like forgetting actually, and like pruning their own context, whereas agents are not, and actually an agent in their kind of context history, if they knew something was bad and they even, you could see in the trace the reason you trace, Hey, that probably wasn't a good idea.If it's still in the trace, still in the context, they'll still do it again. Uhhuh. Uh, and so like, I think pruning is also gonna be like, really, it's already becoming a thing, right? But like, letting self prune the con windowsswyx: be a big deal. Yeah. So, so don't leave the mistake. Don't leave the mistake in there.Cut out the mistake but tell it that you made a mistake in the past and so it doesn't repeat it.Jeff Huber: Yeah. But like cut it out so it doesn't get like distracted by it again. ‘cause really, you know, what is so, so it will repeat its mistake just because it's been, it's inswyx: theJeff Huber: context. It'sAaron Levie: in the context so much.That's a few shot example. Even if it, yeah.Jeff Huber: It's like oh thisAaron Levie: is a great thing to go try even ifJeff Huber: it didn't work.Aaron Levie: Yeah,Jeff Huber: exactly.Aaron Levie: SoJeff Huber: there's like a bunch of stuff there. JustAaron Levie: Groundhogs Day inside these models. Yeah. I'm gonna go keep doing the same wrongJeff Huber: thing. Covering sense. I feel like, you know, some creator analogy you're trying like fit a manifold in latent space, which kind is doing break program synthesis, which is kinda one we think about we're doing right.Like, you know, certain [00:31:00] facts might be like sort of overly pitting it. There are certain, you know, sec sectors of latent space and so like plug clean space. Yeah. And, uh, andswyx: so we have a bell, our editor as a bell every time you say that. SoJeff Huber: you have, you have to like remove those, likeswyx: you shoulda a gong like TPN or something.IfJeff Huber: we gong, you either remove those links to like kinda give it the freedom, kind of do what you need to do. So, but yeah. We'll, we'll release more soon. That'sAaron Levie: awesome.Jeff Huber: That'll, that'll be cool.swyx: We're a cerebral podcast that people listen to us and, and sort of think really deep. So yeah, we try to keep it subtle.Okay. We try to keep it.Aaron Levie: Okay, fine.Inside Agent Evalsswyx: Um, you, you guys do, you guys do have EVs, you talked about your, your office thing, but, uh, you've been also promoting APEX agents and complex work. Uh, yeah, whatever you, wherever you wanna take this just Yeah. How youAaron Levie: Apex is, is obviously me, core's, uh, uh, kind of, um, agent eval.We, we supported that by sort of. Opening up some data for them around how we kind of see these, um, data workspaces in, in the, you know, kind of regular economy. So how do lawyers have a workspace? How do investment bankers have a workspace? What kind of data goes into those? And so we, [00:32:00] we partner with them on their, their apex eval.Our own, um, eval is, it's actually relatively straightforward. We have a, a set of, of documents in a, in a range of industries. We give the agent previously did this as a one shot test of just purely the model. And then we just realized we, we need to, based on where everything's going, it's just gotta be more agentic.So now it's a bit more of a test of both our harness and the model. And we have a rubric of a set of things that has to get right and we score it. Um, and you're just seeing, you know, these incredible jumps in almost every single model in its own family of, you know, opus four, um, you know, sonnet four six versus sonnet four five.swyx: Yeah. We have this up on screen.Aaron Levie: Okay, cool. So some, you're seeing it somewhere like. I, I forget the to, it was like 15 point jump, I think on the main, on the overall,swyx: yes.Aaron Levie: And it's just like, you know, these incredible leaps that, that are starting to happen. Um,swyx: and OP doesn't know any, like any, it's completely held out from op.Aaron Levie: This is not in any, there's no public data which has, you know, Ben benefits and this is just a private eval that we [00:33:00] do, and then we just happen to show it to, to the world. Hmm. So you can't, you can't train against it. And I think it's just as representative of. It's obviously reasoning capabilities, what it's doing at, at, you know, kind of test time, compute capabilities, thinking levels, all like the context rot issues.So many interesting, you know, kind of, uh, uh, capabilities that are, that are now improvingswyx: one sector that you have. That's interesting.Industries and Datasetsswyx: Uh, people are roughly familiar with healthcare and legal, but you have public sector in there.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: Uh, what's that? Like, what, what, what is that?Aaron Levie: Yeah, and, and we actually test against, I dunno, maybe 10 industries.We, we end up usually just cutting a few that we think have interesting gains. All extras, won a lot of like government type documents. Um,swyx: what is that? What is it? Government type documents?Aaron Levie: Government filings. Like a taxswyx: return, likeAaron Levie: a probably not tax returns. It would be more of what would go the government be using, uh, as data.So, okay. Um, so think about research that, that type of, of, of data sets. And then we have financial services for things like data rooms and what would be in an investment prospectus. Uhhuh,swyx: that one you can dog food.Aaron Levie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yes. [00:34:00] So, uh, so we, we run the models, um, in now, you know, more of an agent mode, but, but still with, with kinda limited capacity and just try and see like on a, like, for like basis, what are the improvements?And, and again, we just continue to be blown away by. How, how good these models are getting.swyx: Yeah, I mean, I think every serious AI company needs something like that where like, well, this is the work we do. Here's our company eval. Yeah. And if you don't have it, well, you're not a serious AI company.Aaron Levie: There's two dimensions, right?So there's, there's like, how are the models improving? And so which models should you either recommend a customer use, which one should you adopt? But then every single day, we're making changes to our agents. And you need to knowswyx: if you regressed,Aaron Levie: if you know. Yeah. You know, I've been fully convinced that the whole agent observability and eval space is gonna be a massive space.Um, super excited for what Braintrust is doing, excited for, you know, Lang Smith, all the things. And I think what you're going to, I mean, this is like every enter like literally every enterprise right now. It's like the AI companies are the customers of these tools. Every enterprise will have this. Yeah, you'll just [00:35:00] have to have an eval.Of all of your work and like, we'll, you'll have an eval of your RFP generation, you'll have an eval of your sales material creation. You'll have an eval of your, uh, invoice processing. And, and as you, you know, buy or use new agentic systems, you are gonna need to know like, what's the quality of your, of your pipeline.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: Um, so huge, huge market with agent evals.swyx: Yeah.Building the Agent Teamswyx: And, and you know, I'm gonna shout out your, your team a bit, uh, your CTO, Ben, uh, did a great talk with us last year. Awesome. And he's gonna come back again. Oh, cool. For World's Fair.Aaron Levie: Yep.swyx: Just talk about your team, like brag a little bit. I think I, I think people take these eval numbers in pretty charts for granted, but No, there, I mean, there's, there's lots of really smart people at work during all this.Aaron Levie: Biggest shout out, uh, is we have a, we have a couple folks at Dya, uh, Sidarth, uh, that, that kind of run this. They're like a, you know, kind of tag tag team duo on our evals, Ben, our CTO, heavily involved Yasha, head of ai, uh, you know, a bunch of folks. And, um, evals is one part of the story. And then just like the full, you know, kind of AI.An agent team [00:36:00] is, uh, is a, is a pretty, you know, is core to this whole effort. So there's probably, I don't know, like maybe a few dozen people that are like the epicenter. And then you just have like layers and layers of, of kind of concentric circles of okay, then there's a search team that supports them and an infrastructure team that supports them.And it's starting to ripple through the entire company. But there's that kind of core agent team, um, that's a pretty, pretty close, uh, close knit group.swyx: The search team is separate from the infra team.Aaron Levie: I mean, we have like every, every layer of the stack we have to kind of do, except for just pure public cloud.Um, but um, you know, we, we store, I don't even know what our public numbers are in, you know, but like, you can just think about it as like a lot of data is, is stored in box. And so we have, and you have every layer of the, of the stack of, you know, how do you manage the data, the file system, the metadata system, the search system, just all of those components.And then they all are having to understand that now you've got this new customer. Which is the agent, and they've been building for two types of customers in the past. They've been building for users and they've been building for like applications. [00:37:00] And now you've got this new agent user, and it comes in with a difference of it, of property sometimes, like, hey, maybe sometimes we should do embeddings, an embedding based, you know, kind of search versus, you know, your, your typical semantic search.Like, it's just like you have to build the, the capabilities to support all of this. And we're testing stuff, throwing things away, something doesn't work and, and not relevant. It's like just, you know, total chaos. But all of those teams are supporting the agent team that is kind of coming up with its requirements of what, what do we need?swyx: Yeah. No, uh, we just came from, uh, fireside chat where you did, and you, you talked about how you're doing this. It's, it's kind of like an internal startup. Yeah. Within the broader company. The broader company's like 3000 people. Yeah. But you know, there's, there's a, this is a core team of like, well, here's the innovation center.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And like that every company kind of is run this way.Aaron Levie: Yeah. I wanna be sensitive. I don't call it the innovation center. Yeah. Only because I think everybody has to do innovation. Um, there, there's a part of the, the, the company that is, is sort of do or die for the agent wave.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: And it only happens to be more of my focus simply because it's existential that [00:38:00] we get it right.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: All of the supporting systems are necessary. All of the surrounding adjacent capabilities are necessary. Like the only reason we get to be a platform where you'd run an agent is because we have a security feature or a compliance feature, or a governance feature that, that some team is working on.But that's not gonna be the make or break of, of whether we get agents right. Like that already exists and we need to keep innovating there. I don't know what the right, exact precise number is, but it's not a thousand people and it's not 10 people. There's a number of people that are like the, the kind of like, you know, startup within the company that are the make or break on everything related to AI agents, you know, leveraging our platform and letting you work with your data.And that's where I spend a lot of my time, and Ben and Yosh and Diego and Teri, you know, these are just, you know, people that, that, you know, kind of across the team. Are working.swyx: Yeah. Amazing.Read Write Agent WorkflowsJeff Huber: How do you, how do you think about, I mean, you talked a lot about like kinda read workflows over your box data. Yep.Right. You know, gen search questions, queries, et cetera. But like, what about like, write or like authoring workflows?Aaron Levie: Yes. I've [00:39:00] already probably revealed too much actually now that I think about it. So, um, I've talked about whatever,Jeff Huber: whatever you can.Aaron Levie: Okay. It's just us. It's just us. Yeah. Okay. Of course, of course.So I, I guess I would just, uh, I'll make it a little bit conceptual, uh, because again, I've already, I've already said things that are not even ga but, but we've, we've kinda like danced around it publicly, so I, yeah, yeah. Okay. Just like, hopefully nobody watches this, um, episode. No.swyx: It's tidbits for the Heidi engaged to go figure out like what exactly, um, you know, is, is your sort of line of thinking.Sure. They can connect the dots.Aaron Levie: Yeah. So, so I would say that, that, uh, we, you know, as a, as a place where you have your enterprise content, there's a use case where I want to, you know, have an agent read that data and answer questions for me. And then there's a use case where I want the agent to create something.And use the file system to create something or store off data that it's working on, or be able to have, you know, various files that it's writing to about the work it's doing. So we do see it as a total read write. The harder problem has so far been the read only because, because again, you have that kind of like 10 [00:40:00] million to one ratio problem, whereas rights are a lot of, that's just gonna come from the model and, and we just like, we'll just put it in the file system and kinda use it.So it's a little bit of a technically easier problem, but the only part that's like, not necessarily technically hard, it is just like it's not yet perfected in the state of the ecosystem is, you know, building a beautiful PowerPoint presentation. It's still a hard problem for these models. Like, like we still, you know, like, like these formats are just, we're not built for.They'reswyx: working on it.Aaron Levie: They're, they're working on it. Everybody's working on it.swyx: Every launch is like, well, we do PowerPoint now.Aaron Levie: We're getting, yeah, getting a lot, getting a lot of better each time. But then you'll do this thing where you'll ask the update one slide and all of a sudden, like the fonts will be just like a little bit different, you know, on two of the slides, or it moved, you know, some shape over to the left a little bit.And again, these are the kind of things that, like in code, obviously you could really care about if you really care about, you know, how beautiful is the code, but at the end, user doesn't notice all those problems and file creation, the end user instantly sees it. You're [00:41:00] like, ah, like paragraph three, like, you literally just changed the font on me.Like it's a totally different font and like midway through the document. Mm-hmm. Those are the kind of things that you run into a lot of in the, in the content creation side. So, mm-hmm. We are gonna have native agents. That do all of those things, they'll be powered by the leading kind of models and labs.But the thing that I think is, is probably gonna be a much bigger idea over time is any agent on any system, again, using Box as a file system for its work, and in that kind of scenario, we don't necessarily care what it's putting in the file system. It could put its memory files, it could put its, you know, specification, you know, documents.It could put, you know, whatever its markdown files are, or it could, you know, generate PDFs. It's just like, it's a workspace that is, is sort of sandboxed off for its work. People can collaborate into it, it can share with other people. And, and so we, we were thinking a lot about what's the right, you know, kind of way to, to deliver that at scale.Docs Graphs and Founder Modeswyx: I wanted to come into sort of the sort of AI transformation or AI sort of, uh, operations things. [00:42:00] Um, one of the tweets that you, that you wanted to talk about, this is just me going through your tweets, by the way. Oh, okay. I mean, like, this is, you readAaron Levie: one by one,swyx: you're the, you're the easiest guest to prep for because you, you already have like, this is the, this is what I'm interested in.I'm like, okay, well, areAaron Levie: we gonna get to like, like February, January or something? Where are we in the, in the timelines? How far back are we going?swyx: Can you, can you describe boxes? A set of skills? Right? Like that, that's like, that's like one of the extremes of like, well if you, you just turn everything into a markdown file.Yeah. Then your agent can run your company. Uh, like you just have to write, find the right sequence of words toAaron Levie: Yes.swyx: To do it.Aaron Levie: Sorry, isthatswyx: the question? So I think the question is like, what if we documented everything? Yes. The way that you exactly said like,Aaron Levie: yes.swyx: Um, let's get all the Fortune five hundreds, uh, prepared for agents.Yes. And like, you know, everything's in golden and, and nicely filed away and everything. Yes. What's missing? Like, what's left, right? LikeAaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: You've, you've run your company for a decade. LikeAaron Levie: Yeah. I think the challenge is that, that that information changes a week later. And because something happened in the market for that [00:43:00] customer, or us as a company that now has to go get updated, and so these systems are living and breathing and they have to experience reality and updates to reality, which right now is probably gonna be humans, you know, kinda giving those, giving them the updates.And, you know, there is this piece about context graphs as as, uh, that kinda went very viral. Yeah. And I, I, I was like a, i, I, I thought it was super provocative. I agreed with many parts of it. I disagree with a few parts around. You know, it's not gonna be as easy as as just if we just had the agent traces, then we can finally do that work because there's just like, there's so much more other stuff that that's happening that, that we haven't been able to capture and digitize.And I think they actually represented that in the piece to be clear. But like there's just a lot of work, you know, that that has to, you just can't have only skills files, you know, for your company because it's just gonna be like, there's gonna be a lot of other stuff that happens. Yeah. Change over time.Yeah. Most companies are practically apprenticeships.swyx: Most companies are practically apprenticeships. LikeJeff Huber: every new employee who joins the team, [00:44:00] like you span one to three months. Like ramping them up.Aaron Levie: Yes. AllJeff Huber: that tat knowledgeAaron Levie: isJeff Huber: not written down.Aaron Levie: Yes.Jeff Huber: But like, it would have to be if you wanted to like give it to an Asian.Right. And so like that seems to me like to beAaron Levie: one is I think you're gonna see again a premium on companies that can document this. Mm-hmm. Much. There'll be a huge premium on that because, because you know, can you shorten that three month ramp cycle to a two week ramp cycle? That's an instant productivity gain.Can you re dramatically reduce rework in the organization because you've documented where all the stuff is and where the answers are. Can you make your average employee as good as your 90th percentile employee because you've captured the knowledge that's sort of in the heads of, of those top employees and make that available.So like you can see some very clear productivity benefits. Mm-hmm. If you had a company culture of making sure you know your information was captured, digitized, put in a format that was agent ready and then made available to agents to work with, and then you just, again, have this reality of like add a 10,000 person [00:45:00] company.Mapping that to the, you know, access structure of the company is just a hard problem. Is like, is like, yeah, well, you just, not every piece of information that's digitized can be shared to everybody. And so now you have to organize that in a way that actually works. There was a pretty good piece, um, this, this, uh, this piece called your company as a file is a file system.I, did you see that one?swyx: Nope.Aaron Levie: Uh, yes. You saw it. Yeah. And, and, uh, I actually be curious your thoughts on it. Um, like, like an interesting kind of like, we, we agree with it because, because that's how we see the world and, uh,swyx: okay. We, we have it up on screen. Oh,Aaron Levie: okay. Yeah. But, but it's all about basically like, you know, we've already, we, we, we already organized in this kind of like, you know, permission structure way.Uh, and, and these are the kind of, you know, natural ways that, that agents can now work with data. So it's kind of like this, this, you know, kind of interesting metaphor, but I do think companies will have to start to think about how they start to digitize more, more of that data. What was your take?Jeff Huber: Yeah, I mean, like the company's probably like an acid compliant file system.Aaron Levie: Uh,Jeff Huber: yeah. Which I'm guessing boxes, right? So, yeah. Yes.swyx: Yeah. [00:46:00]Jeff Huber: Which you have a great piece on, but,swyx: uh, yeah. Well, uh, I, I, my, my, my direction is a little bit like, I wanna rewind a little bit to the graph word you said that there, that's a magic trigger word for us. I always ask what's your take on knowledge graphs?Yeah. Uh, ‘cause every, especially at every data database person, I just wanna see what they think. There's been knowledge graphs, hype cycles, and you've seen it all. So.Aaron Levie: Hmm. I actually am not the expert in knowledge graphs, so, so that you might need toswyx: research, you don't need to be an expert. Yeah. I think it's just like, well, how, how seriously do people take it?Yeah. Like, is is, is there a lot of potential in the, in the HOVI?Aaron Levie: Uh, well, can I, can I, uh, understand first if it's, um, is this a loaded question in the sense of are you super pro, super con, super anti medium? Iswyx: see pro, I see pros and cons. Okay. Uh, but I, I think your opinion should be independent of mine.Aaron Levie: Yeah. No, no, totally. Yeah. I just want to see what I'm stepping into.swyx: No, I know. It's a, and it's a huge trigger word for a lot of people out Yeah. In our audience. And they're, they're trying to figure out why is that? Because whyAaron Levie: is this such aswyx: hot item for them? Because a lot of people get graph religion.And they're like, everything's a graph. Of course you have to represent it as a graph. Well, [00:47:00] how do you solve your knowledge? Um, changing over time? Well, it's a graph.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And, and I think there, there's that line of work and then there's, there's a lot of people who are like, well, you don't need it. And both are right.Aaron Levie: Yeah. And what do the people who say you don't need it, what are theyswyx: arguing for Mark down files. Oh, sure, sure. Simplicity.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: Versus it's, it's structure versus less structure. Right. That's, that's all what it is. I do.Aaron Levie: I think the tricky thing is, um, is, is again, when this gets met with real humans, they're just going to their computer.They're just working with some people on Slack or teams. They're just sharing some data through a collaborative file system and Google Docs or Box or whatever. I certainly like the vision of most, most knowledge graph, you know, kind of futuristic kind of ways of thinking about it. Uh, it's just like, you know, it's 2026.We haven't seen it yet. Kind of play out as as, I mean, I remember. Do you remember the, um, in like, actually I don't, I don't even know how old you guys are, but I'll for, for to show my age. I remember 17 years ago, everybody thought enterprises would just run on [00:48:00] Wikis. Yeah. And, uh, confluence and, and not even, I mean, confluence actually took off for engineering for sure.Like unquestionably. But like, this was like everything would be in the w. And I think based on our, uh, our, uh, general style of, of, of what we were building, like we were just like, I don't know, people just like wanna workspace. They're gonna collaborate with other people.swyx: Exactly. Yeah. So you were, you were anti-knowledge graph.Aaron Levie: Not anti, not anti. Soswyx: not nonAaron Levie: I'm not, I'm not anti. ‘cause I think, I think your search system, I just think these are two systems that probably, but like, I'm, I'm not in any religious war. I don't want to be in anybody's YouTube comments on this. There's not a fight for me.swyx: We, we love YouTube comments. We're, we're, we're get into comments.Aaron Levie: Okay. Uh, but like, but I, I, it's mostly just a virtue of what we built. Yeah. And we just continued down that path. Yeah.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: And, um, and that, that was what we pursued. But I'm not, this is not a, you know, kind of, this is not a, uh, it'sswyx: not existential for you. Great.Aaron Levie: We're happy to plug into somebody else's graph.We're happy to feed data into it. We're happy for [00:49:00] agents to, to talk to multiple systems. Not, not our fight.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: But I need your answer. Yeah. Graphs or nerd Snipes is very effective nerd.swyx: See this is, this is one, one opinion and then I've,Jeff Huber: and I think that the actual graph structure is emergent in the mind of the agent.Ah, in the same way it is in the mind of the human. And that's a more powerful graph ‘cause it actually involved over time.swyx: So don't tell me how to graph. I'll, I'll figure it out myself. Exactly. Okay. All right. AndJeff Huber: what's yours?swyx: I like the, the Wiki approach. Uh, my, I'm actually

(00:00-40:04) Did it go up? Jackson's new fade's got him lookin' sharp. I-L-L hosting Michigan. You are cool, Doug. Sharing a restroom. Where are all the Blues haters now? Noon thirty. Stop your children from majoring in journalism and do it now! Don't waste your time with 8th grade. Mr. Beast needs to leave these blind people alone. The Ringmaster of that bawdy morning show. Being held accountable for Lent. Watch for wildfires today. The 8PM tip is not the friend of sleep. Workin' 9-5. Is 30A for paupers?(40:12-52:54) Chairman's heading to New Edition in March. Welcome back, Dylan Holloway. Hatty and a helper. Just 12 points out of the wild card and Doug's back in. It's incredible, it's just not erotic. Swimming gerbils. The Venn diagram of stretch marks and VD.(53:04-1:08:26) Was that a Rex Hudler reference? Is this the anthem of the summer? Party Cove. Down on float trips. Jackson would rather lose his feet than wear river shoes. A willing cuckold. TMA Float Trip? The Huzzah is the Destin of Cottleville. Jeremy Rutherford is one of the finest Americans breathing. No rules on the river.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this heartfelt episode of Whole Hearted Leadership Coaching Conversations, host Lantz Howard sits down with longtime friend Dr. Jay Raines, CEO of LeadersQ and author of the new book Culture Brand: A Proven Framework for Building a Culture That Wins.Jay traces his path from nonprofit leadership and launching a leadership development firm in India (working with Toyota and startups) to returning to the U.S. in 2016 and growing LeadersQ—where he and his team have delivered thousands of coaching hours to over 80 Chick-fil-A owner-operators and hundreds of other leaders.The conversation blends personal vulnerability and practical wisdom:Protecting marriage through weekly “Sunday night board meetings”The family-balanced, multi-year journey of writing his bookHow running brought mental clarity—and how a shattered shin during a half-marathon forced him to confront absence of presence, learn dependence, and cultivate peace and a victor mindsetJay unveils his Culture Brand framework—a Venn diagram that balances three essentials:Results — excellence, accountability, goal-driven performanceTeaming — collaboration, encouragement, developing othersCharacter — coachability, dependability, ownership, attitudeCharacter serves as the “glue,” integrating results and relationships. He illustrates this with stories from introducing servant leadership in hierarchical Indian business cultures and real client transformations.The episode closes with a striking metaphor: the Dodda Alada Mara (Big Banyan Tree) in Bangalore—a single tree spanning acres, thriving through interconnected “feeder” trunks long after the original center died—symbolizing cultures that endure and scale beyond the founder.Key TakeawaysGuard sacred relational time (weekly spouse check-ins) as a core leadership habit.Physical discipline sharpens mental clarity and reveals blind spots—suffering often exposes where we're not truly present.Lead from an “empty cup” (building relational trust) rather than a “full cup” (relying on authority)—it multiplies impact through abundance instead of scarcity.Assess your team across Results, Teaming, and Character; celebrate strengths, but transparently tackle weaknesses—starting with yourself.Intentionally build cultures that scale and leave a living legacy.--Learn more about coaching with Lantz Howard and discover how you can lead wholeheartedly in your true identity.

This is my interview with the team at Venn Brewing in South Minneapolis.  Venn has coffee, craft beer, and THC beverages all served in a safe and inclusive taproom dedicated to providing people a place to foster and find community.  It is a quintessential third space.  This interview talks about how Venn Brewing started and showcases the passion behind the beverages and smiles that you are sure to find in the taproom.  Cheers! If you liked the show and want to support the A One Pint Stand, consider joining our Patreon.  There is some great bonus content that our Patreon supporters enjoy that give a fun peek behind the scenes.

You're listening to Burnt Toast! We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay.Today our conversation is with Kim Baldwin, the newest member of the Burnt Toast team.Kim is the former digital editor for the Nashville Scene. Her culture writing can be found in places like the Nashville Scene, Parnassus Books' Musings and on her Substack. Kim has interviewed folks like Sarah Sherman, Trixie Mattel, John Waters, Samantha Irby and Tess Holliday.Originally a blogger, Kim started The Blonde Mule in 2006 and later turned her popular interview series “These My Bitches” into a podcast called Ladyland. Kim writes a weekly newsletter about books and pop culture, teaches social media classes and is a frequent conversation partner for author events in Nashville.If you enjoy this conversation, a paid subscription is the best way to support our work!Join Burnt Toast

If you would rather not listen to the guys’ banter about Jacob's upcoming move to Iowa, Jim’s garden planning, and a listener correction about the word “imbibe” you can skip ahead to (33:30). Chris's SummaryJim and I are joined by Jacob Vonloh as we discuss using Buffered ETFs prompted by a Morningstar article titled “Buffer ETFs Are Not for Everyone.” We explain how defined outcome ETFs use options to provide an explicit amount of loss protection over a given period while limiting potential gains, and we outline why these products are generally suboptimal for long-term investors. We then connect this to investment positioning, focusing on risk capacity, distribution planning, and why dollars assigned to delay-period Minimum Dignity Floor and Go-Go spending may require a degree of principal protection. Jim's “Pithy” SummaryChris and I are joined by Jacob Vonloh as we take a listener-submitted Morningstar article—“Buffer ETFs are not for Everyone”—and use it to kick off what is going to be a series on principal protection. Morningstar does a very good job in this article laying out what it likes about buffered products, and it also makes some excellent points on where these types of products would fit and where they don't fit. They're not for everybody, but they could be of interest in certain cases, in a certain application, and we're going to share how we use them. What I want to do in this series is broaden the conversation. Buffered ETFs are just one type of principal protected product. There are multiple tools in that category, and we're going to walk through where they fit into distribution planning. As you transition from accumulation into what I call the Venn diagram phase, and ultimately into distribution, you have to stop thinking of your portfolio as one big portfolio and start thinking in terms of smaller portfolios—investment positions—based on assigned spending. Dollars earmarked for a legacy position can be invested aggressively. Dollars earmarked for immediate spending—like the Go-Go reserve or the reserve for your MDF—need a degree of principal protection. This ties directly into the Secure Retirement Income Process and the See Through Portfolio and how we navigate asset positioning in retirement. Show Notes: Morningstar Buffered ETFs article The post Using Buffered ETFs: EDU #2607 appeared first on The Retirement and IRA Show.

GLP-1s like Ozempic and Wegovy are dominating the conversation around weight loss — but what happens when the prescription ends? In this episode, Shana sits down with Lindsay Venn, PA-C, RD, and Clinical Director of Insulin IQ, to unpack how to reverse metabolic dysfunction without relying on lifelong medication. They explore why insulin resistance is the real root issue, how to safely taper off GLP-1s without losing your progress, what labs can reveal your true healing status, and why many chronic diseases — including cancer — are deeply tied to your metabolism. This episode is a must-listen if you're struggling with fatigue, weight, hormonal chaos, or feeling like your body just isn't responding anymore. What We Covered: Why GLP-1s may help but not heal your metabolism The most important labs to run before tapering off Common mistakes when weaning off Ozempic & Wegovy How insulin, mitochondria, and inflammation connect to cancer The role of fasting insulin, meal timing, and light in true healing The #1 lifestyle shift to calm your hormones and burn fat naturally Links & Resources: Learn more about Lindsay: vennintegrativemedicine.com Reverse insulin resistance, fatty liver, and cholesterol issues: https://shanahussinwellness.com/fattyliverguide/ Join my 90-Day Insulin Reset: https://shanahussinwellness.com/programs-courses/reset/ Connect with Shana: Instagram: @shana.hussin.rdn Facebook: Shana Hussin Wellness

In this episode, Lesley breaks down self-love beyond surface-level self-care and explains why it's foundational to confidence, boundaries, resilience, and healthy relationships. She explores why self-love is often misunderstood, why it can feel so hard to practice, and how societal expectations shape the way women treat themselves. This conversation sets the foundation for a two-part series, with practical tools and practices coming in the next episode. If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:What self-love actually means beyond self-care and affirmations.How self-love differs from narcissism and self-interest.The importance of self-love in building confidence and resilience.How self-love strengthens confidence through self-commitment.The impact of societal pressure and past experiences on self-love.Episode References/Links:Episode 153: Tanya Dalton - https://beitpod.com/ep153Learning To Love Yourself by Gay Hendricks - https://a.co/d/9r14YqcEpisode 628: Frances Naudé - https://beitpod.com/ep628Episode 610: Amy Ledin - https://beitpod.com/ep610What Happened to You? by Oprah Winfrey & Bruce D. Perry - https://a.co/d/fNSEjJvSubmit your wins or questions - https://beitpod.com/questions If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! 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What I interpret that as we can't be it till we see it and just sort of like ourselves, like what I don't want you to do is not have that self-love that's like true self-love. Lesley Logan 0:20  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.  Lesley Logan 1:03  Hey, Be It babe, how are you? Oh my gosh. Okay, so we're doing a two episode series on self-love and a two episode series on burnout, and these kind of came out of doing this series on the habits. And, you know, we've had so many amazing guests on the pod, and it made me think of like they talk about how you have to love yourself, like, I can't even tell you how I probably should have looked it up. How many episodes we have had guests tell us, like, love yourself. Like, you have to have, like, love for yourself. And, like, it got me thinking, like, you know? And you're like, yeah, yeah. Like, you think you know what that means. And then you're like, wait, what does it mean? Like, what? What is self-love, you know? And is it important? And what if we don't do it? And how is it different than burnout, and how is it different than a habit, and how is it different than, like, all these other things. And so I kind of wanted to do just like, a whole episode on, like, what is self-love? Why do we struggle with it? Why do we need it? It's important, right? So we're going to just like, kind of dive in. And if you think I know it already, sure, you can skip this episode and go the next one, which is going to be the tools and the tips and the tricks and the mantras, but I hope we can have, like, a conversation. I mean, obviously you're not here, but like, you can talk in the car together, of like, what, what does this mean? And maybe you have different interpretations, right? Also, in the next episode, I'll share some of the ones that you guys have sent about that with here. I think you guys sent some for self-love and some that kind of go with burnout. And so I'm excited about it. Lesley Logan 2:20  Okay, so first of all, here is the dry like what the professionals psychology, things like that have to say. Self-love is a state of appreciation for oneself that involves prioritizing your physical, psychological and spiritual wellbeing with the same kindness and compassion you would offer a loved one, I would also say you'd offer anyone, because I see a lot of people offer strangers more of these things than they do themselves. It includes accepting yourself blahs and all setting healthy boundaries, practicing self-care and treating yourself with respect. This is not the same as narcissism, which involves excessive self-interest, but rather a fundamental regard of your own happiness and worth. And I think, like, if we could just, like, leave that right there. You know, like, there's so many things in that it's like, oh, that's what self, like, it's not the same as like, I mean, yes, there are some tools I'll share that like, about loving yourself, like I love myself, but like, actually, these are the ways you can be in self-love. You can be prioritizing your physical, psychological, spiritual well being with the same kindness and passion you would offer a loved one. Another way of saying this that I found on the line was be the adult you always needed to yourself. Tell yourself the words the younger version of you always needed to hear. And that might mean you have to go learn about, like, reparenting right there. And that would be like a therapist, right? So hopefully, like, if any of these things spark your interest, like you are working with a professional therapist of some kind in that way, but like, especially if it involves, like, the reparenting of yourself, and I think a lot of us have to go through that. And by the way, I know a lot of moms are listening, and including mine, like, it's not that you didn't do a great job. You did the best you could, some people, right? And also, there's still things that happen in our lives outside of what our parents did or didn't do that, like are part of what we brought up to ourselves as an adult. And there's stories that we tell ourselves, and those all affect how we treat ourselves, psychologically, physically, spiritually, right? Okay, so just to make sure we are saying things in the same way, same thing in different ways, so that if you have a different way of viewing these words, you get an education around self-love today, here's another thing. So this means self-love can include self-acceptance, so recognizing accepting both your strengths and your weakness without harsh self-criticism. And I think this is the hardest for me, so I'll just give anecdotes to each of these, because I think that at least I like that when people do it. So I think it's easy for us to accept the good parts about ourselves, but then we're really harsh about the not so great parts, and again, not that you like don't try to better what those are. But I think a lot of people who are attracted to the show because I do the same thing, like, we like attract alike is we are then constantly trying to better the things that we don't like about ourselves. Great. Do that, and also don't be harsh, right? There's a difference between a harsh self-criticism and an awareness of things that could be better, but still loving yourself despite of or in spite of that, right? Self-compassion. Self-love is self-compassion. Treating yourself with kindness, especially during difficult times. I definitely struggle with compassion for myself when I kind of do the thing I know I shouldn't have done at the time, and then, you know, you're like, I shouldn't procrastinate right now, and then you do and then, like, everything blows up in your face. I will go into a harsh criticism. I will have a lack of self-compassion. All of that affects the self-love. And when you don't love yourself, it makes it really difficult for you to show up as the highest version of yourself, that's for sure. And it also it makes it really hard for us to accept love and support from others. It's almost hard for us to receive compassion for other people, because we're not giving it to ourselves, and so we don't even recognize compassion when it comes from someone else, right? Self-care is self-love. Actively taking care of your physical, emotional, mental health through actions like eating well, exercising, gain enough rest, and engage in activities you enjoy. And by the way, when it's when I say, whenever you hear me say, eating well or healthy, I think you need to understand like fueling yourself appropriately, right? What allows you to have the best sleep of your life? What allows you to do the movement practice you like, what allows you to do the life you want to live? So there's no such thing as good or bad food or good or bad bodies, right? So, but what are the things that make you feel well? Are you eating foods that you know are going to make you feel like crap? For example, I love Kettle Corn. I really love Kettle Corn, and I can have a handful of Kettle Corn, no problem. But I can't stop with a handful of Kettle Corn most of the time. And so when I am kind of oftentimes being a little too in my head, being a little hard on myself, like having a stressful day, of course, I had to have more Kettle Corn, because why not just really make the already hard day I'm having even harder. And when I have half a bag of Kettle Corn, I feel like my stomach hurts. I have like my skin crawls, and I have the worst night's sleep, right? Well, in doing that, I am not giving myself the self-care that I need, because I'm now affecting tonight's sleep, which means I am not loving myself for the whole day and night, which is going to affect tomorrow, right? So getting enough rest is self-care. That is self-love. And I get really I in researching this, I was really excited, because I find myself, when I lead my retreats, or I lead some of these workshops that I do, like talking to people about, like, why it's so important that they go for a walk in the morning, if that's what they want to do, they want to walk in the morning. Why is it so important? Why is it so important they do Pilates? Because doing activities that help you sleep well, move well, be pain free, are all an act of self-love, and every time I see people not doing it in modernist oftentimes for others, what I'm seeing in the room is like a lack of self-love, and it's limiting how much you can love others. I'm just gonna say it, right? Lesley Logan 8:22  Okay. Boundary setting. So knowing your limits and saying no when necessary to protect your well being like setting boundaries and upholding those boundaries is self-love. We had a great episode about boundaries with Tanya Dalton. I still really love and recommend that episode. It's so, so good. And what I will say is I know that I come across as someone who is like the strictest of boundaries. I'm gonna tell you right now, I still feel bad when I have to uphold those boundaries, but I know I have to uphold the boundaries because I love myself so much. I know I cannot. I cannot go beyond my limits and still be the person I need to be tomorrow for all the people, right? I will let more people down tomorrow if I let go of my boundaries today, right? All right. Self-respect is self-love. Hvonoring your needs and not sacrificing your well being to please others. Self-respect is self-love. And I I think like we can all nod along and then go, ooh, am I respecting myself? And I will say, the older I get, the easier self-respect is for me to do. The younger I was, the harder it was, right? Because there's like, things that you're like, trying to prove, and you don't want to be liked, and there's all these different things. And so I would just say, like, you know, please explore self-respect with yourself, because if you don't have that, that's like your boundary setting, your self-care, your compassion, your acceptance, I think, is all going to fall under, like the actions you take to respect yourself and then positive self-talk, but consciously replacing negative self-talk with more positive and supportive affirmations. And by the way, if you listen to habit series, it's really hard to do. It's really hard to replace the negative self-talk with positive words, because you have to first, then be aware of the negative self-talk, and you have to, like, get quicker at catching it. So it might take you a whole day right now to catch yourself being an ass to yourself. And then as you are like, okay, I want to have a better, positive self-talk, self-respect, self-compassion, self-care. So that's acceptance, blah, blah, blah. So then maybe you take some of the tools that we're doing, and all of a sudden you realize, whoa, I caught myself talking negatively to myself in half a day. Well, most people are gonna get mad at themselves it took half a day. What you have to do is actually celebrate that it only took half a day, and it can get better. Then it's gonna take you three hours, and then it's gonna take you an hour, and this can take you 30 minutes, and take you three minutes, and it's gonna take you three seconds, that can take years. So give yourself the space and grace and have some positive self-talk and find ways to replace negative things, or maybe tell a friend, like, if you hear me talking about it myself, I need you to do something. Lesley Logan 10:43  In Cambodia, we have a lot of girls who are apologizing all the time. So as soon as anyone said, I'm sorry, we'd also scream, not helpful, not helpful. You know, and it was, it became something we laughed about. It was so funny, we actually realized, like, wow, a lot of times when I'm saying I'm sorry, I really mean, excuse me, right? And that's a better way to replace it. Okay, so why does this matter? Like, why is it important to have any self-love? So what the therapists and psychologists and brain people are saying is, it is a foundation for a happy and fulfilled life, right?Lesley Logan 11:14  So what I interpret that is we can't be it till we see it and just sort of like ourselves. Like, what I don't want you to do is not have that self-love, that's like true self-love, and then envision a woman who you think is going to be the thing you should be being it until you see and you go and be it till you see it, but she also doesn't love herself. Like, that'd mean you get all the destination, and you didn't, you didn't make sure it was like, you know what I mean? Like you just become more of something else, but you're not in love with yourself along the way. And so I definitely want to make sure that as you be it till you see it, part of that is loving yourself like how and maybe that's your work this year is like, I'm gonna be it till I see it in self-love, right? Maybe it's not just like a whole person. Maybe it's an area. Lesley Logan 11:57  Self-love increases self-confidence, self-worth and resilience. And I was like, oh, that's so of course, like, yes, I believe that confidence comes from keeping the commitments you said you would to yourself, okay? It's very easy for a lot of you to keep commitments to other people. So I was very specific, keeping the commitments to yourself that you said you would. That is where self-confidence comes from. But to do that, you have to have all these different areas of self-compassion, self-care, self-love, boundaries, right, self-respect. So when you have self-love, it increases your self-confidence, your self-worth and resilience. And I was like, yes, oh my gosh, that is such an easier way of getting towards having self-confidence, right? It's loving yourself. It leads to healthy relationships with others. You know, we often attract people who mirror a lot about how we feel about ourselves. And like, oh my God, isn't it so embarrassing to, like, look back at the boyfriends you have when you're younger? You're like, what were you thinking? But also, if you think about, like, wow, that's the amount of love I was willing to give myself from myself. So of course, that's what I was willing to accept from somebody else you know. And so if you are in some ways trying to be it till you see it in having a loving, wonderful relationship, I would definitely do some inventory and some self-reflection around what is going on with your self-love. And then another thing of why it's so important is a lack of self-love can contribute to feelings of inadequacy, anxiety, depression and burnout. We're gonna have a series on burnout. So of course, this is going to have an overlap with that.Lesley Logan 13:23  But, you know, I have always said, like, burnout happens when, in the Pilates industry, it happens a lot when people are under-charging and over, you know, working and, yeah, they did that because they have a lack of self-love. Because if you had self-love, you would be charging your worth and keeping your boundaries. Right? Like, a lack of self-love can contribute to feeling of inadequacy. And so like, with all the people with self, imposter syndrome, and I know there's people saying imposter syndrome is, like, made up, but also, like, sure, maybe it is. And also, there's a ton of people who feel inadequate, have anxiety, which is basically fear, okay? Gay Hendricks, in his book says anxiety and fear are the same thing. And depression, well, of course, I mean, I think you can love yourself and still have a low day, so I'm not going to say you won't ever be depressed, but it is going to contribute to those feelings. And so I do wonder, like, if the more we have some self-respect, self-compassion, have positive self-talk, how that is going to improve our feelings of around us, like, does it actually mean that your imposter syndrome just becomes less and less and maybe you only feel it when you're brand new at something? I believe that's it. That's why self I think self-love is even more important than I thought when we started doing the series. Like, I was like, oh yeah, of course, we have to have self-love. Let's figure out how to help people do that. And then I'm like, oh my God, this is so the most important fucking thing we can all be doing. Lesley Logan 14:41  Okay. So what can self-love look like? So some of this stuff is going to sound redundant, but again, I'm saying it all because I think we need to hear the same things in different ways. So some of you might be like, oh, got it. I gotta work on my boundaries. I gotta work on my self-talk. Gone, done. You don't need any more. And some of us are like, okay, I need all these things. But what does it look like? And this is where I am always like, okay, tell me the how. I got it. I'm in. I love it all. I co-sign. Tell me how, right. I'm a how girl. So what does self-love mean to you, and what does it look like? So it can mean talking to and about yourself with love. So, like, one of the things you could do is like, notice this week how you talk about yourself. Are you talking about all the things you messed up when you tell a friend about how the day went? Are you talking about how you, like, did something really amazing, right? Talking to and about yourself with love. I walk around this house and I like, do different things, like, oh my God, wow, I just connected that to that I'm so amazing. Like, I get really pleased with myself when, like, I had to move my Reformer the other day without Brad and I took the carriage out, stood inside the frame, squatted down, like I was doing a little like deadlift, and then, like, move the frame and put the thing out. I'm like, so strong. I'm so glad I could be independent. Like that, that is an act of self love, that kind of talk, right? So you, these are, like, there's little things you can do that in every single day, little ways you can do that in every single day. Lesley Logan 16:01  Prioritizing yourself. That self-love looks like prioritizing yourself. Self-love looks like giving yourself a break from self-judgment. So maybe you start to notice you're judging yourself, and you're like, I gotta replace it with positive words. What if you just didn't? What if you just stopped just to go, okay, I'm gonna set a timer for 15 minutes and go do something else, think of something else, like, take a break from the judgment. Okay, maybe it means getting rid of mirrors for a bit. Or, you know, things like, if that, where in your life are you actually judging yourself the most? How can you like? Is there a way you can take a pause from that project? Is there a way that you can set yourself up for success? You're actually like, get like, you can actually give yourself a break from the self-judgment. Self-love can look like trusting yourself, trusting yourself. I think a lot of us get really excited about a decision we make, and then we ask other people how they feel about that, and then we change our decision based on others. And look, I change my decisions a lot based on input from others when I'm like working on a project with the team, whatever. But like, that's not what I'm talking about. Yes, if someone gives you better information, you should bring that in and but also, if you know that you need to sleep for seven hours, and other people are like, oh, I can't believe you only need to sleep for seven hours, trusting yourself is way better than going, hmm, I guess I'm wrong. Maybe. I mean, they said I should sleep for eight hours. If you know, what is it you need. Gotta trust yourself, right? Like, that's some of the best things you can do. I found, like, you know, Brad and I've been like, advocating for our health a lot lately. And one of the things I've noticed that when I talk to my doctors in a way that has I'm advocating myself. I have the paperwork to say, like, when I sleep this many hours a night, I feel like X, Y and Z in the morning. And when I sleep for this many hours a night, I feel like this. And when I do blah, blah, blah, I feel like this. When I do this, when I talk like that, they don't doubt me. They actually go, okay, so what I'm hearing is blank, and what that sounds like is when you do X, Y and Z. So because I'm trusting myself, I'm not going, you know, I mean, when I sleep this many hours, I feel the best when I sleep this many hours, I don't like, I'm not doubting myself, I'm trusting myself. And then, therefore, my doctor and I can work as a team together. And so what I'm saying is, like, oftentimes we don't give off that we trust ourselves. And so other people feel like, Oh, you're asking a question you want me to put in. You want me to like, I'm going to give you some suggestions. And then that doesn't help with the trust, right? Self-love looks like being true to yourself, being true to yourself. And, you know, that goes, that goes hand in hand with one thing we're gonna talk about in a second. So I'll tell that's right when I get to that one. But I just want to say, like, being true to yourself. So if you don't, if you don't know how to be true to yourself, I really need you to take some time. Frances Naudé's episode is around the same one dropping, and she talks a lot about how, like, you have to live at your highest self. And she has some tips on like, how do you be true to yourself? How do you trust yourself? Being nice to yourself is a way to look at self-love. So if you have self-love, you are nice to yourself. You're wondering what self-love looks like, be nice to yourself. What do you if you know you need to get up and go get a glass of water, go do that. That is being nice to yourself, that is listening to yourself, is trusting yourself, right? I used to like, okay, so when I was teaching Pilates, I would go to the bathroom between every single client. Now that I work at a desk most of the time, I have found myself falling into that ADHD thing where I just keep working until like, oh my God, like, I finally have earned the right to go to the bathroom. And someone like voted me and going, ADHD, ladies, you don't need to earn the right to go to the bathroom. Just go to the bathroom. Being nice to yourself is going to the bathroom. It's just like getting up, hitting pause, and that is self-love. That is self-love. Okay, so do you see how, like, all of a sudden, self love becomes so much easier? Yes, some of these things are harder to do, break, taking a break from self-judgment, especially if you've been doing it for your whole life. But you can also just simply be nice to yourself, and that could kick off the self-love ball and domino. Lesley Logan 20:00  All right, setting healthy boundaries. So, at the be true to yourself. One of the things I know about me is I do need time alone. And we had my in-laws came to visit. Was so much fun, but also, like with them here, it meant that I didn't have a lot of time by myself, and so I didn't talk to any of my friends or other family members during that time, not because I didn't want to, but because I knew that I needed the times I could have alone, I needed them alone. Being true to myself was making sure I had time as an introvert to recharge and refuel, and it meant I needed to keep my boundaries up and not give in to oh my God, I feel so bad. I haven't talked to that person. Of course I feel bad. I'm still gonna feel bad, but also I'm not. I can't feel bad and tired and shitty. So loving myself, being true to myself, understanding like, yes, it is. I'm sure some people think it's weird and annoying. I need to have so much time by myself, but I need to do that so I can be there for others, and setting healthy boundaries around that is important. We also, then had a friend who needed to use our guest bedroom 48 hours later. And of course I wanted to help go, yeah, stay as long as you want. No, we just had too many in our, we had two people in our house for 10 days. We have people coming to our house next week. I can't do that, so here's what I can do. And do you want to know something? They're okay with it. They're totally fine with it. They didn't go, oh, what a bitch, like, what a bitch. No, because they, too, have healthy boundaries because they love themselves. So self-love is setting healthy boundaries and keeping them. Lesley Logan 21:24  Forgiving yourself when you aren't being true or nice to yourself. So I love that this is like at the end, because it's like, oh my God, I, like, by time you hear all this, you'd be like, well, here's all the different ways I didn't love myself today. So, forgive yourself, and that is an act of self-love for you today, and you'll just do better the next time, right? So, and I think that this is a really good, like, maybe thing to write down or think about it, just remember that self-love isn't just about loving the easy parts of ourselves. It means loving every single part of ourselves. So even the inner critic, like, in fact, maybe the inner critic just needs to be loved a little bit, right? So, why is it so hard? Why is it so hard to love ourselves? I feel like, oh my God, it's actually just like Lesley just gave out so many different ways I could love myself and it should be so easy. Like, why is it so hard? So this is, well, the patriarchy, we're just gonna say. But seriously, women often struggle with self-love due to societal expectations to prioritize others. Perfectionism is another reason why we have a struggle with self-love and being bombarded with unrealistic beauty and life standards. So it is hard to love ourselves when every single time you look in the magazines and on TV and all this, you're being shown what the standard for beauty and being a wonderful woman is, and you feel like you aren't able to match and meet those so of course, it's hard. You won't. It's like, how you have to like, I mean, if the resiliency you have to have to like, see those people and go, I don't need to look like them, and I'm still amazing. That takes time. So if you are struggling with comparing yourself to what society says is what we're should be living up to, you are not alone. It takes a long time it and what I would say is, like, go back to the things that we did, and what is something easy you can do. Because as you start to build your self love muscle, becomes easier to not fall for the expectations of society, which, by the way, isn't going to be there for you, right? Even if you reach whatever they think the bar is, they're gonna move the bar anyways. So past negative experiences make it hard to love ourselves, right, such as criticism, trauma, feeling undervalued, these things can also deeply impact self-worth. Lesley Logan 23:22  So like, let's be real. Who, the stories that you got from people who were around you in your life at pivotal times, and the experiences you had, those things can affect you, especially if you had a family member or friend who told you you weren't beautiful, you weren't lovable, you weren't pretty. If you heard that and then something like, hey, I feel that, and I really do hope that you are not just doing self-reflection, but actively seeking someone who can help you, because you are so worthy of self-love, and as you've already learned, self-love is so important when it comes to all the other things you want to have in your life, it'd be really hard to have an amazing, wonderful partner who loves you if you don't love yourself, because it's gonna be hard for you to feel and believe that love is true. I'm not saying you can't attract it or that you don't have that. I'm saying like it's just going to be hard for you to believe that it's real and true. Right now I want you to have that, okay? Additionally, cultural conditioning can teach women to be quiet, put others first, and feel guilty for practicing self-care, making self-love seem selfish or out of reach. And I will say that this last part is really important to me. As a woman business owner who serves female mostly, and a few good men clients in our membership, it's online. Women will cancel the membership because of all the demands on them that they feel from others, and they have a hard time putting themselves first because they feel selfish or indulgent or that, you know, I just like, you know, I can't do all of it, so if that's why I do none of it, you know, or I'm only using five minutes at a time, so I should cancel this. The male members never do that. That's not why they quit. They quit because, like, oh, I'm taking three months off for. Surgery, that's when they quit. So I say that because, ladies, we have to take the perfectionism off the table. Love ourselves, be proud of the few minutes we do do and then prioritize those. It is essential. And if you didn't listen to the episode with Amy Ledin, the most recent one we had in December, go listen to that. She's a mom of five with cancer, and she's kicking ass, and she prioritizes her movement. And, you know, I'm not saying that you have to do everything like she does, but I want you to have an example of people can be busy, can have hard lives, and still can love themselves enough to put themselves first, right? Lesley Logan 25:35  All right. So the other things, obviously, we have societal, cultural pressures. So there's prioritizing others. Women are often socialized to be caregivers. Definitely have to be the caregivers. They're often because we are still paid less. They're often the ones that need to leave the workplace, if that's what's needed in a family, someone gets sick. We obviously know we have a lot of women who listen to the show, who are in the sandwich generation, and so it's really, it really does mean that you put other people first, and over time, that means maybe not loving yourself as much as you could be, and that is affecting other areas in your life and your belief in yourself and what you can do and what's possible. So I'm not saying don't take care of others. What I'm saying is you have to prioritize yourself first and then take care of others. Because truly, your ability to care for others isn't a Venn diagram of what you can actually do, and where I see a lot of people struggle with that, we'll talk more about it in burnout series when they give more, right? So love yourself enough. Prioritize yourself over others. Other reasons why it's really hard for us as women is unrealistic expectations. We talked about that with society, the standard of beauty, blah, blah, blah. Oh my God, the motherhood bull crap. Oh my, the Instagram on, on, you know, all this trad wife stuff like, if that's what you want, that's what you want, that's great. But ladies, you do not have to be that as a mom, you can be whatever you want, right? So what are these unrealistic expectations people are putting on us suck? So what are the expectations you want for yourself? I can be true to that. That's self-love, right? And then obviously society has this immense pressure for us to be perfect. The past experience, in personal history, in your childhood experience, so remember, that's the childhood experience you had. Those like early experience with caregivers and emotional neglect or inconsistent caregiving, that can lead to a belief that you're not inherently lovable, which makes it really hard to love yourself. So a great book to explore, this is, What Happened to You? I love this book is with Oprah and Dr. Bruce Perry, and I think it's a really great way to have empathy for yourself, but also empathy for others. So obviously, so many people experience trauma, especially as children, that can affect your ability to love yourself. There could have been a life event. You could have gone self-love all day long, and then a life event happened. And so one, be, have so much compassion for yourself. And then let's figure out where, where that happened, and what are these things that we talked about so far that could help you work on that self-love? Feeling undervalued. So you know, when we're underpaid or under supported, or we're not aware of our worth and demanding that because we don't have our boundaries up, we're gonna feel undervalued. That's going to affect our self-love, right? That's really hard. So, and then there's internalized beliefs, the shoulds the guilt or the need for external validation. So if you are someone who is needing external validation to love yourself, it is going to be hard, right? So we do have to figure out a way around that. That might be you have to do something within therapy to do that, because many women tie their worth to external achievements and validation they receive from others, rather than internal sense of self-acceptance. And so if you don't have an internal sense of self-acceptance. It's hard to have that self-compassion, and if you're always waiting for someone else to love you before you love yourself, it makes it really hard to receive that love, right? Lesley Logan 28:28  So okay, in the next episode, we're going to go around some tools for self-love. There's some great books that I want to give you. There's some mantras I want to give you, but what I'd love for you to do as your homework, as I would just love for you to like reflect upon this, maybe listen to it again. What were the things that stood out in the self-love that surprised you, or maybe good and you're like, oh, that's, that's where I'm struggling right now. I would love to know, I'd love for you to share it. You can share it via beitpod.com/questions. You can bring it as a you know, just share that. You can leave it in a review. You can comment on this video on YouTube or on our Instagram, because I would love to hear like what a part of self-love is easy for you, what part is a challenge for you. And by the way, my ADHD ladies, it is harder for us because internalized negative feedback. Women with ADHD may have a lifetime of being misunderstood or criticized for symptoms leading them to believe that they are inherently flawed, and so a lot of women with ADHD are diagnosed late, if at all, and so they're often like, there's like, oh my God, there's something wrong with me. I don't I don't fit in the way people do, and so they have a hard time with self-love. So hi, my ADHD ladies, this part, I wanted to make sure you knew it. It can be harder for us, right? Blaming oneself for failures like because there's a tendency to attribute failures to internal flaws and successes to luck, personal factors, which damages self-esteem, which makes it hard to have self-love. There's a hightened sensitivity to rejection. So women with ADHD are often more highly sensitive to feedback or rejection, leading them to interpret things more negatively. And personally, I see you, and that means it's harder to have self-compassion, right? So, and then also, women with ADHD, often go through a shame cycle. This sensitivity can lead to a cycle of shame and self-criticism, making it difficult to accept strengths or celebrate achievements, which is why we have a wins day. We win on Friday, like we have a wins day, win, W-I-N-S day on purpose, because I need that for me to keep having the self-love it because it's hard for me, like it's hard for me to go ever, like with the ADHD, with all that stuff, it's like, can be so hard to celebrate things until they're done. So I purposely have this in place so that there is a celebration of wins every single Friday for all of us, so that we can have, maybe we can get rid of that shame cycle just a little bit right, and have more ease and self-love. And then lastly, societal expectations. So on top of what we talked about, societal expectations on women in general, combined with undiagnosed or late diagnosed ADHD symptoms, can lead to feelings of measuring up and harsh self judgment. That harsh self-judgment, as we know, makes it hard to have self-love, self-compassion, kind words. Lesley Logan 30:55  You're all so amazing. I really hope that you guys are liking these little series. If there are other ones, you have topics you want us to bring up, or guest we want to bring in, please let us know. Right now, what part of the self-love comes easy for you, what part is hard, and then stay tuned to our next episode, where we'll go over some tools. Thanks so much until next time, Be It Till You See It. Lesley Logan 31:14  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Brad Crowell 31:57  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 32:02  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 32:06  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 32:13  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 32:16  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Stephanie Venn-Watson, DVM, MPH, is a serial entrepreneur of for-profit and not-for-profit companies. She is a veterinary epidemiologist and public health scientist with over forty patents and seventy peer-reviewed scientific publications. Stephanie is currently the Co-Founder, Co-Chief Executive Officer of Seraphina Therapeutics. Previously, she served as an epidemiologist tracking diseases for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and World Health Organization. She is a recipient of the 2025 CNBC Changemaker Award.In this episode, Stephanie discusses her work at CDC and WHO, setting up infectious disease surveillance systems... being recruited by the U.S. Navy to help understand and improve the health and wellness of the Navy dolphins, a population that was already living significantly longer than dolphins in the wild… her research, funded by the Office of Naval Research, studying why some dolphins age more healthfully than others… researching which molecules predicted the healthiest aging dolphins and then, the groundbreaking discovery of foundational nutrient, C15:0… publishing research results that have been revalidated by independent teams throughout the world... working to identify the best ways to incorporate C15:0 in our daily diets… exploring the parallels between the ways aging affects dolphins and the ways aging affects humans... how, as an undergrad, her plan to go to medical school was affected when by two events: reading The Coming Plaque and meeting a veterinary epidemiologist… observing how dolphins demonstrate the power of community… the opportunities that missteps can create… her book, The Longevity Nutrient: The Unexpected Fat That Holds the Key to Healthy Aging… the importance of following your moral compass… and, in her words, “When you find your purpose, or probably more likely, when your purpose finds you, grab the reins and hold tight and enjoy the ride.”

In the midst of collapse, as we watch our governments lay waste to our social agreements, it can be hard to imagine extending the franchise of legal rights to Nature and the More than Human world.  And yet, if we're to transcend this moment, it must be because we have become something other than we are now - and to do this, we need the roadmaps that show us how to move through, and beyond, the collapse of the old into something new. We spoke to Ally Pimor about this a couple of weeks ago and when I first met her, I also met this week's guest and they had so much to say that I wanted to talk to each of them.  So with this in mind, this week's guest is Brontie Ansell, the founder and co-director of Lawyers for Nature. Brontie founded Lawyers for Nature in 2019 with the (fairly infamous) barrister Paul Powlesland, they are a collective of lawyers who act to represent Nature. They reimagine the law for Nature and advocate for Nature to be given legal rights through education, Nature centric governance, consultancy, research and advocacy. Last year Lawyers for Nature were behind the We Are Nature campaign that sought to change the dictionary definition of Nature at the Oxford English Dictionary to include humans as part of Nature. Brontie was one of the key legal architects behind the Nature on the Board project at Faith in Nature and she was the first human to act as the Nature Guardian speaking on behalf of Nature at the company Faith in Nature, giving Nature a voice and a vote on a corporate board for the first time in history. She then went on to design the legal apparatus to appoint Nature and the voice of future generations to the board of House of Hackney, a company that credits Nature as their most important muse. Most recently she was advising the Comisiwn Seilwaith Cenedlaethol Cymru/National Infrastructure Commission for Wales on their Nature Representation pilot. She features heavily in both Simeon Rose's new book Nature's Boardroom and Frieda Gormley's book In the Company of Nature. She has been a lecturer in law for 15 years, most recently at the University of Essex where she was an associate professor at Essex Law School. Brontie has taught courses on Rights of Nature, climate justice, employment law and land law. Her work is informed by the global rights of nature movement and she is grateful to all who came before her to create the bedrock for work she does. Brontie talks to me about what a society could look like if we really reformed the meaning of ‘justice for all', and started to understand Nature and aspects of Nature as a subject of law.Because of the times we're in, I felt I could not ignore the shocking events that occurred in America this past week week and so we started with a quote from Elliott Morris and Strength in Numbers, which I was confusing with another organisation - Strength in Numbers is, in fact, a Substack blog -  well worth reading. I've put a link in the show notes, along with a few others that I think are worth adding to your must-read list every morning.  Last week - with his permission - I read a bit from one of these, by Oliver Kornetzke as part of the intro (hi Ollie if you're still listening!). I'm not going to make a habit of this every week, but I want to read something from Jackie Summers blog, Field Notes for Cracking An Empire, where she says, “If you've been reading my work for the last few years, none of this should be surprising. The old narratives are gone. This is what fascism looks like in real time. First, ICE agents killed Renee Nicole Good, a white woman. Now they've murdered Alex Jeffrey Pretti, a 37-year-old US citizen. A nurse with no criminal record. White women's bodies were supposed to be sacrosanct. Respectable professionals were supposed to be “off-limits.” That's no longer the case. For Black people, this country has always been fascist. What's new is who else is inside the blast radius. The Venn diagram of “safe” and “endangered” is now a circle. If you're shaken, it's not just grief. It's narrative whiplash. The distance between “this can't happen” and “it just did, on camera” no longer exists. You have choices. You can either cling to the lie and let someone else keep paying. Or pay the cost of updating the story about this country. About who is “safe,” about what you're willing to do now that protections are gone. I've said it before, the empire can handle outrage. It has no defense against empathy at scale. Outrage spikes, trends, and fades. Empathy—“it can be me; it already is them”—changes what people are willing to risk and protect. This is recruitment by atrocity. Your blood spilled red in the streets, just like ours. It shouldn't take this. It always has."There follows one of the most cogent, clear, useful, grounded lists of how we can all join what has been called well-organised Anarchists. And if that's what we are, I'm not sure that's bad.  At the end, Jackie writes - If you're going out, your first job is coming home. If you're staying home, your first job is staying human.  I'm writing this from the privilege and safety of a rural home in the UK.  Wherever you are in the world, please look after each other. And for ideas on how we can transcend this moment, to start reimagining a world which sees us as humans who reconnect with each other and with Nature, and give Nature the rights it deserves to thrive, please listen on to Brontie Ansell and her beautiful models of Quiet Romance, Care, Guardianship and justice for all life. Linkshttps://www.lawyersfornature.com/https://immersives.pioneerspost.com/lawyers-leading-nature/index.htmlhttps://greenallianceblog.org.uk/2022/09/22/giving-nature-a-seat-on-the-board-is-a-powerful-way-to-make-sure-businesses-protect-our-environment/https://nationalinfrastructurecommission.wales/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/NICW_NOTB_LFN-Final-Report.pdfhttps://www.houseofhackney.com/pages/nature-our-directorhttps://www.natureontheboard.com/https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/professional-business/natures-boardroomhttps://www.waterstones.com/book/in-the-company-of-nature/frieda-gormley/9781645023500https://www.ukrightsofnature.org/https://wearenature.org/

It's being calling “Flu A” – 2026's devastatingly aggressive H3N2 influenza that's so vicious, even Dr. Drew was coughing and sneezing for weeks. Countless people have posted about their symptoms of this “super flu” – including Naomi Wolf, who says it's “weird” and “unnatural” and “like a time-released illness.” “A pounding headache that made every vein on my skull feel like a little river of throbbing molten lead,” writes Naomi. “Abundant sniffles… a regular whistling sound emerging, every time I exhaled…” Why is this year's “Influenza A” AKA H3N2 so miserable? And are there medications or remedies already in your home that could help? Naomi Wolf shares the steps she used to rid her body of Flu A symptoms, when you should seek help from a hospital, and how she finally recovered at home. Naomi Wolf Ph.D. is an independent journalist, co-founder and CEO of DailyClout.io, and co-editor of The Pfizer Papers with Amy Kelly. She is also the author of Facing the Beast: Courage, Faith and Resistance in a New Dark Age and War Room/DailyClout Pfizer Documents Analysis Volunteers' Reports eBook. Follow at https://x.com/naomirwolf Autumn Smith is the co-founder of Paleovalley, a company focused on nutrient-dense foods. She advocates for rethinking meat consumption and promotes the benefits of bone broth and tallow through Paleovalley's offerings. More at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson is Co-CEO and Co-Founder of Seraphina Therapeutics. She is a veterinary epidemiologist and author of “The Longevity Nutrient”. Her background includes DARPA, the U.S. Navy Marine Mammal Program, and research on nutritional C15:0 deficiencies. Learn more at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 • AUGUSTA PRECIOUS METALS – Thousands of Americans are moving portions of their retirement into physical gold & silver. Learn more in this 3-minute report from our friends at Augusta Precious Metals: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/gold⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or text DREW to 35052 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠• FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • VSHREDMD – Formulated by Dr. Drew: The Science of Cellular Health + World-Class Training Programs, Premium Content, and 1-1 Training with Certified V Shred Coaches! More at https://drdrew.com/vshredmd • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Executive Producers • Kaleb Nation - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Susan Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/firstladyoflove⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Content Producer • Emily Barsh - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/emilytvproducer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Hosted By • Dr. Drew Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/drdrew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today's poem falls somewhere in the middle of a Venn diagram of haiku and English ode. Happy reading. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dailypoempod.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to Dev Game Club, where this week we begin a series on 1985's Ultima IV. After talking about the recent Defeating Games for Charity, we set the game in its time, talk about our encounters in the past with the series, and then dive into the manuals and the start of the game. Dev Game Club looks at classic video games and plays through them over several episodes, providing commentary. Sections played: The first couple of hours and the manuals  Issues covered: Defeating Games for Charity, the first pancake, our experiences with this series, an opaque franchise, mainlining a game, opacity being part of the point, performance characteristics of the PCs of the time, the importance of the manuals, entering the world as yourself, using the manual to reinforce the role-play, not requiring graphics, priming the player, describing the geography of different areas, imposing importance on a handful of pixels, the quest of the game, sublimating the quest of the game, a less traditional RPG experience, after reading the manual, the deep questions/dilemmas, tournament structure, choosing your most important virtue, getting the bard, series characters who can join your party, reflecting your beliefs, getting different dilemmas, the Venn diagram of virtues, the Tinker profession, symmetry in design, Buddhism and the Eightfold Path, countering the cultural zeitgeist, the Avatar and Hinduism, a deity's manifestation on Earth, finding your way into swamps, both hosts being poisoned and dying, death and rebirth, being unable to recruit early. Games, people, and influences mentioned or discussed: Dwarf Fortress, BioStats, KyleAndError13, Silksong, GreyFiery, Hollow Knight, Untitled Goose Game, Kaeon, Hitman, N0isses, Hades, Phil Salvador, MYST, RobotSpacer, Shadowgate, Unpacking, Kendrama, CalamityNolan, Splatoon 2, Typing of the Dead, Dark Souls 2, Nitro, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, LostLake, Minecraft, Super Mario Bros Shuffler, Devil May Cry, MegaMan X, Belmont, NES, Atari 2600, Ultima Underworld, A Bard's Tale, Eye of the Beholder, Magic: The Gathering, LucasArts, Super Mario 64, Space Harrier, Gauntlet, Ghosts n' Goblins, Gradius, Super Mario Bros, Tetris, Where in the World Is Carmen Sandiego, Spy vs Spy (series), Oregon Trail, King's Quest II, The Goonies, Gremlins, A View to a Kill, Rambo, Temple of Doom, The Empire Strikes Back, SEGA Master System, Sonic (series), Wizardry, Apple ][, Commodore 64, Civilization III, The Sims, Bill Roper, Warcraft, The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind, Reed Knight, Pool of Radiance, Dungeons & Dragons, Warren Spector, Ultima Adventures, Outcast, Fallout, Wasteland, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, Harley Baldwin, Richard Garriott, the Ramayana, Ed Fries, Benimanjaro, Kirk Hamilton, Aaron Evers, Mark Garcia.  Note: Because Ultima IV has very little music to speak of, I will be substituting music from later in the series in the openings to these episodes TTDS: 06:25 Next time: More Ultima IV Twitch: timlongojr and twinsunscorp YouTube Discord DevGameClub@gmail.com