Podcasts about so larry

This week on The Bears Talk Underground!!!!Lorin Cox has worked tirelessly getting guests on his show to talk about all of the different quarterbacks that the Bears have even the slightest ties to in preparation for what they may do this off-season.So Larry decided to use all of that hard work to his advantage and have Lorin on the show to tell us what he has learned!!We talk Wilson, Watson and so much more on this all new episode of The Bears Talk Underground!!!

Inside look into the Dad's Edge Alliance with John Williams John is part of a group called the Dad Edge Alliance, it is a large community of individuals from all walks of life who empower each other to become better fathers, husbands, and leaders. They discuss topics that revolve around the family and life in general, and share ways in which they can cope or improve their wellbeing. This community allows a safe environment for them to share and open themselves up without fear of being judged. This podcast is an inside look into meetings these fathers may have on a regular basis. Info on the DEA(The Dad Edge Alliance) The DEA was started by The GOOD Dad Project and its founder, Larry Hagnar, he founded the organization because at one point in his life he felt dissatisfied from his work, disconnected from his family, and had no clarity or direction in his life. He reached out to other fathers and realized that he was not alone, in this he realized that there is no degree or formal education on how to be a dynamic father, husband, or leader. He saw as time goes on, many people's circles of friends diminish and leave them to fight the battle alone. So Larry formed The GOOD Dad Project so fathers who had found themselves in a similar predicament he was in, could have a community to support each other and hone their skills so they could lead epic lives. https://gooddadproject.com/dad-edge-alliance/ *Disclaimer* mild language in the later half of the podcast #wakeup #getup #empathy #perspective #positivity #encouragement #hardwork #progress #life #love #community #family #brotherhood __ We look forward to your feedback! Your comments are like rocket fuel in our tank. Find us online at lifethatcounts.org or drop us a line, info@lifethatcounts.org. Facebook.com/Lifethatcounts Twitter.com/LifethatCounts Instagram @lifethatcounts and @therealjohnwilliams Youtube.com/LifethatCounts_ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/lifethatcountsinc/message --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/lifethatcountsinc/message

Read to the bottom for FREE access to Linda's Workshop, "Mary and Martha Decide to Homeschool". Yvette recently had the privilege of sitting down with Linda Lacour Hobar, author of The Mystery of History, for an interview for The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. In this discussion they explore how you can determine if you are a “Mary” or a “Martha” personality type, and how that will affect your homeschooling, parenting, and marriage.  Through homeschooling her children, and service as a missionary, Linda discovered a genuine love for world history where famous and not-so-famous people have shaped time itself by the mighty hand of God. Watch the video of this full interview for free on the Schoolhouse Rocked Backstage Pass website. In the year 2000, Linda sensed a clear call to write The Mystery of History series for her children, grandchildren, and generations to come. Since then, this “Chronological, Christian, Complete” program has become a hit with readers of all ages. While fact-filled and thought provoking, Linda’s writing style is warm and personable. The Mystery of History has been awarded “Best Homeschool History Resource” in 2012; Cathy Duffy’s “100 Top Picks”; Mary Pride’s “Practical Homeschooling Reader Award”; and The Old Schoolhouse “Excellence Award.” Backstage Pass members get access to an exclusive, 25-minute bonus video, in which Linda Lacour Hobar gives "10 Tips for Homeschooling as a 'Mary'". Not a Backstage Pass Member yet? Save 10% on any paid membership when you use the coupon code "PODCAST10". Backstage Pass memberships go directly to support production on Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution. More from Linda Lacour Hobar: Get your copy of The Mystery of History Check out The Mystery of History Video Lecture Series online! Get Linda's Mary and Martha workshop for FREE! Use the coupon code ruMaryorMartha to download of Linda's "Mary and Martha Decide to Homeschool" workshop today. (Coupon expires 12/30/2019) Let’s pretend that Mary and Martha decide to homeschool. Following their character, Martha would probably have all her plans in place (and be frustrated), and Mary would probably be at the feet of Jesus (and way behind schedule.) We all have a little of Mary and Martha is us, but this workshop is designed to encourage Marys – who love the Lord and their children, but need help and structure to successfully homeschool. The presenter of this workshop is a self-proclaimed Mary (Linda Lacour Hobar, author of The Mystery of History) who managed to homeschool for 17 years, and still likes to talk about it. Download your free workshop here, when you use the coupon code ruMaryorMartha.     Transcript (automatically generated - spelling and grammar errors are guaranteed!) Yvette Hampton:           Hey everyone, this is Yvette Hampton and I am so glad to have you back with me for the podcast and I have an amazing guest on today who I actually have had on the podcast once before. So you are a return guest, which is really fun. Linda Lacour Hobar is the author of The Mystery of History. I'm sure many of you use it, but If you don't, you definitely want to check it out. Our family uses it. We use the audio version and we have the book version as well, which we absolutely love.                         As a matter of fact, I remember when we first started homeschooling and we were looking for a history curriculum that was taught from a Biblical perspective. And that was really important to us. And we've talked a lot about this on the podcast that we wanted something that was going to direct our girls’ hearts towards Scripture. And so many, many people said, well you need to get The Mystery of History. And I was like, it has a really cool name, so it must be great. And now I am sitting in the dining room of Linda and it is so much fun to get to sit here. We for those of you who have been tracking with us over the past year, my actually past couple of years, you know that we travel a lot and we've been traveling for filming the movie. And so this summer we have traveled a lot.                         We have been on the road the entire summer and we were coming through Memphis and you had mentioned to me awhile back that you lived in the Memphis, Tennessee area. And so I called you up and I said, Hey, can we come and see you? And so here we are sleeping in hers. I'm an empty nester and have three guest rooms. I'm like, absolutely. You come on, you are. And, and it's been fun. Talk about that a little bit about your family. Cause you were a homeschool mom for many years. Actually, through your whole, your children's childhood, right? So you've got three kids. Tell us about your kids really quickly. Yes. So we homeschooled for 17 years and my children are very much grown up now. They're 34 30 and 26 which means that I was homeschooling back in the late eighties and nineties right before there was.com can you even imagine there was no internet, there was no cell phones. Linda:               So, I'm a true veteran. Yeah. I wish sometimes that we were back in those days because it seems like things would have been simpler in a way where they probably yes and no. There was fewer opportunities which actually left us home more and at home we got things done. So there is that beauty because homeschool does work best at home. Right. I would say one of today's homeschool moms challenges is that there is so much opportunity that you have to kind of be careful because you could wind up, you're away from the house and then you're not homeschooling your everywhere else but home. So it's right. Sometimes there's simpler days really. There's some legitimate to that. Yes, yes. And we always are having to find a balance between having our kids socialized, of course, because that was always the big thing for so many years is you know, homeschool kids are cooped up in their houses all day, every day of the week and they need to get out and explore the world and socialize with people. Yvette:             And so, it was, I think the tides have shifted, but somehow, they've shifted almost to the extreme, right? Being away from the home so much. So we do have to find an important balance. And you've been in the homeschool community for a really long time because, I don't know, when did you first write The Mystery of History? Linda:               Volume one: 2000. I was having a midlife crisis of sorts. I was turning 40. It was the year 2000 and now y'all all know how old I am. And I was praying for about a year. The Lord was stirring it in my heart, but it was in the year 2000 that I started writing. Yvette:             Wow. God has used you in an amazing way to write this curriculum that still, you know, 19 years later God is still using it and you've gotten your revisions coming out.                         You have a new revision that just came out for volume one and it's beautiful. You guys, I got to see it today and it's colorful and it's vibrant and it a, you've just done an amazing job in, it's not just the colorful pictures in it, but the content that is in it and we, our family lives The Mystery of History. It's, it's what we use for history. So take God be the glory. That's right. And as I'm hearing, you know, I've really gotten to hear your heart for families and homeschool moms and really what God has put on you to help moms like myself who really are not history buffs like you are. And so you've been able to help me to teach history, but you go to homeschool conventions and you get to speak to families all over the country, which is amazing. And I remember meeting you back in, I think it was March, we were at Teach Them Diligently in Nashville and we were talking about some of your workshops and you said you did one on Mary and Martha. Linda:               “Mary and Martha Decide to Homeschool.” Yvette:             That's right. And I was so intrigued by it and I was like, wow, I really want to know more about this. And so that's why we're doing a podcast with you today. Cause I want to talk more about this whole Mary and Martha idea cause I'm not sure yet where I fall in line with. Am I a Mary? Am I a Martha? So, so let's talk about this. Explain to me this workshop that you do on and Martha. Well, in order to do this subject, any justice, we really do need to go to the Scripture first and find there's four stories about married Martha in the new Testament. And for those who may not know, these sisters, there's Mary Martin, their brother Lazarus, and their stories really are fabulous. It still amazes me that we actually have this insight into these new Testament lives. I mean just how precious they are. So, without being too much of a Bible teacher, I am going to just follow the Scripture so that we start there because really, we're only deriving and gleaning things that we think we could know about them. I mean, I've not met these ladies, but based on some of their responses to Jesus, this is what picking up. So Linda:               Then that all applies to homeschool moms and we're going to get there. So if I may, I'll start with Luke tin has the classic story that most people know. That's the one you might be familiar with. You hear pastors preach on it. And this is the story where basically Jesus comes to visit Mary and Martha and Lazarus in their home. And Martha is a bit perturbed with her sister because Martha feels like she's doing all the work in the kitchen. And she were literally fusses and kind of wags her finger and like, Jesus, will you not rebuke my sister who's just sitting around listening to you? And so that's the famous story. And the end of that story is that Jesus does not rebuke Mary. He's actually like, no, Martha, you're missing it. She's doing the better thing because Mary was sitting at the feet of Jesus sitting, wanting to eat clean wisdom from him and learn from him listening.                         And of course, all my Martha friends will say, somebody had to put the food on the table, and I know that and we're going to get to that. And she has a servant's heart. Martha does. But Jesus does push back on that. He's like, you're missing it. You're missing the heart. You know, don't be so consumed. But another story in the new Testament that's much longer, but we can get a lot of the two gals out of it is the S the passages that come out of John 11. And so this is the story. So we've already had the story in John of them just serving Jesus. But this is another story now where Lazarus, their brother is actually dying. And so Mary and Martha, a call out to Jesus like, please come because our brother is so sick, he's dying. Well, interesting. The passage says in John 11:5five, “Now, Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.”                         So right there to clear the air. He doesn't favor one sister over the air. He never does. He loves them all. And then it goes on to say, so when he heard that he was sick as in Jesus, when he heard Lazarus was sick, he stayed two more days in the place where he was. So Jesus purposefully delayed his visit to let something horrible happen. The man's just sick. Jesus doesn't go right away. And it's not because he doesn't care. It's because he has a plan. So I think it's very interesting that we see that Jesus just allowed something to happen. So Lazarus does die. And then what happens next is that we get a picture of Martha's response first to Jesus once he finally shows up and she's peeved. And then we have a picture of Mary when Jesus shows up. So let me glean a little out of this just with you.                         It says now Martha, as soon as she heard Jesus was coming when and met him, but Mary was sitting in the house, so can't you just picture Martha? She kind of marches over there like Jesus and she says, Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever you ask of God, God will give you. Now, what is critical in this is that Jesus has such a relationship with Martha. He must respect her, right? Because what he does to respond to her is give her a theology lesson, one that he won't give Mary, but they don't give to Martha. This is an incredibly faithful woman. I mean, I do love Martha. And he goes on to say to her, I am the resurrection and the life like boom. I mean he just lays it on her and you know, keep in mind this little new Testament family, they haven't yet known Jesus to die and be risen from the dead yet they don't know and they don't know that I don't even know what the hell are you referring to.                         So that's like, okay, but Martha says, and we have the record of her faith and testimony. Martha says, yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Christ, the son of God who has come into the world. Whoa. I mean this is an amazing woman, right? And again, she has not yet seen Jesus die and come back to life. But she is like convinced. So she has great faith. But anyway, the story goes on and Martha sins word and says, Jesus is so many of you. But, but she tells her in secret. I don't know why Martha feels like she has to tell that to Mary in secret, except that maybe she's afraid Mary's going to cause a scene. This is just my guess is like I know when I go to a restaurant with my family and they're always like, mom, you know, don't call the scene if you don't like me to bring them birthday presents at restaurants because I want to call it a scene.                         So, I just picked her. Mary is much more demonstrative or feelings or something. So Martha's like just in secret, like Jesus is summoning you, which again, Martha has to meet him on the road. But Jesus summons Mary. So he is tuned in her broken heart. The brother's dead, right. So what's interesting is, so then it says also Mary has a little support group. So she's there with her friends as it says, you know, the Jews are with her in the house or comforting her. So Larry has a support group. Martha doesn't, she's self-sufficient, right? But Mary has a little group of people in any way. It says Mary then went to Jesus and saw him and she fell down at his feet and said, Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. The exact same words Martha said, but in a different posture, right?                         And in a different manner. Martha's kind of busted and a Mary's broken and at his feet. And I think the picture, I get a Mary over and over that she up, very broken woman. We don't know her whole story, but I see a lot of brokenness on her. She's very distraught a lot. So she's more weeping. And then when Jesus sees her weeping, do you know what he did? Is it's the shortest verse in the Bible. You know the one come to Jesus. What? Jesus wept. Jesus isn't weeping because Lazarus is dead. He's weeping because he loves his people and he sees their pain. He's weeping at Mary's broken heart. He's not so prized, and he's not surprised. And of course, the next part of the story is that he does in fact raise Lazarus from the dead. We don't hear peep out of the sisters.                         Again, I'm on that particular thing. But Lazarus is raised from the dead. What an incredible, just foreshadowing of what price is going to do. So any way to beat him. But here's something neat. There's another story of them. Okay, so I've given you, there's the classic stories. Then there's the raising of Lazarus, but there's one more. John 12 get this as a six days before the Passover came to Bethany where Lazarus was, who had been dead, who he raised from the dead and there they made him a supper, get this and Martha serve. It's like, and she had learned a thing. She's still serving because Martha is Martha, right? So Jesus get her, she's an toner and Mary's doing a better thing, but she's still serving because somebody still has to put the dinner on the table and it's Martha. Yeah, this woman is faithful, so I still love her, but this is what is happening.                         In contrast then Mary took a pound of very costly oil of spikenard, anointed the feet of Jesus, wiped his feet with her hair and the houseless filled with the fragrance of the oil. How many of you guys lose, you know, use essential oils, right? Can't you just imagine the fragrance we're talking about a year's worth of wages is what this oil costs. This is an extravagant act of worship. Now picture this too. She's wiping his feet with her hair. Well, I know that that was a certain tenderness and all, but I also, there's a part of me thinking this was a spontaneous act of worship. Was she unprepared? Did she not like bring a cloth? Right? And like knowing in speech, she's like, I'll just use my hair like she is. So this is so just, she's probably really not thinking ahead because again, they could have used this money maybe differently, but we know in her spirit, she's anointed him as the savior.                         He is, she wants to serve. And it's again a foreshadowing up because the, these oils, this is like burial, ceremonial preparation and all this. And I don't even know if she knows that, but she's just doing this. Now what's so neat is that of course the disciples bus, Oh, you know, this could have been used and given to the poor. Jesus says, let her alone. She has kept us for the day. My burial, they still don't even know he's going to die. Right. And so let her alone and then it goes on and there's this bonus in Mark that just, this is what gets to me, Mark, another gospel writer will say this is Jesus speaking. And he says, assuredly, I say to you, where ever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman has done will also be told as a Memorial to her, Oh wait a minute, the Bible over and over spotlights Jesus.                         But in this one instance, Jesus is going back to what Mary had done again. I'm picturing a broken woman. She's not getting the dinner on the table. People are fussing at her. She's got a support group. She cries a lot. She's kind of a mess. She had broken this oil, puts it on his feet and everything and Jesus says that that act would be remembered where ever the gospel is preached. Well, that's a message for eternity and I just am kind of like still a little taken back that of all the little heroes of the faith, he could have pointed out, he points a little light at Mary just a minute. Like it's okay with him that she's on meth. Yes. Like he really is okay. K with that and loves her despite her. Like maybe he just loves it. She so needs him because this is what I'm picturing is and needy woman.                         I'm thinking of homeschool moms all over the country right now. Right. That's the context of this talk is you got to know these sisters. Yes. Yes. So, okay, so the workshop that you do is titled Mary and Martha decided to homeschool. Right? Which, which I love this cause as you're talking about Mary, I'm thinking of we're, we're probably split down the middle between homeschool moms. You know, the mom said, I talked to you, many of them are married, many of them are Martha. And there are so many aspects and personality traits from each one of them. So can we talk a little bit more about that? Because I want to figure out like, yeah, who, who personalities, who am I? I want you to tell me today who I am. We have a crave coming to know me a little bit. So you might already have an idea.                         I think I am and, and I'm a giveaway to probably by the way, I'm already speaking, but let's, let's hold that thought. Okay, let's go to the personalities. Just kind of dissect them. And I got a little professional help with this one because there was a man named Anthony who writes about these learning styles. And so based on some of his, I've applied his findings to married Marco. So he didn't do the Mary Martha part. That was just for me. But he would say, let me back up a minute. That people by personality typically are either concrete or they're abstract. So let's pause concrete meaning some people really thrive and bloom and grow on very tangible things. Black and white, right or wrong a B, I mean they're just concrete and so they manage things well. Then the abstract person is all over the place.                         The abstract is really a gross in the intangibles. The non-measurables. So they're inspired by beauty, love, peace, things you can't touch and hold. But that means something. Okay. So you have two very different, so people typically are concrete or abstract, but on top of that there's a way that people process those things and they process some typically either sequentially, which is in order or randomly, which is absolutely no order. So let's go back to those definitions. The obviously the sequential person finds natural order logical. There's an a, there's a B, there's a C, there's a one, there's a two, there's a three. And in fact of violate that is rock in the universe. You know what I mean? This person is tight ship. Yup. The random person is actually so confined by that. The random person doesn't operate well because a random person, they're just, they're just all over the place and it's like they're going to go with what feels right next.                         Not what's logical at all. So it's a collision of views and handling. So what I have in my, what I've derived with Mary and Martha from the new Testament is that I think that if you put a concrete sequential together, those are all the thinkers of this world. I think that's Martha. I just think that's her. And they would be very task oriented. And then if you were to put together the abstract as well as the random, well you got a hot mess and that's pretty much married. All right. Those are just what I derived from these sisters from what we can get. And you know, I haven't met them, but I can't wait to get to him and to meet him. But I think that that's what they are. And so again, Anthony Grigorik has defined those four and now some people, there's a few random people that crisscross on the seventh those.                         But I'd say most people, if they're concrete, they're also sequential. And most people, if they're abstract, they're also reading them. So really talking left brain, right brain, you're talking about free spirits versus, right. The non, which we need both in the world. Oh, absolution. Yeah, in a nutshell, we'll just call them thinkers and feelers. That's an easier way to look at it. And everybody thinks everybody feels but to different degrees. So let's just generalize thinkers, feelers. So now that I've said all that, let's go back to Martha. Okay. As a thinker, that means she's very task oriented and Oh my goodness, I know this Martha. Well, this is my story of Martin. I know this. Martha will because my mother is a Martha extraordinary, my sisters and Martha, my first born is a Martha. My husband has marked the qualities in that. There's a lot of things that are very precise.                         So, let me give it away now I am so not that, okay, I'm going to be a Mary, let me give to us now. I'm a Mary all the way through. So that means my entire life I have been surrounded by Martha's and in comparison, they're the efficient people. They're the logical people, they're the people that you want to get a job done, you give it to them kind of people. And you know, I can't measure up. I mean at least that's kind of how I feel. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, like I've been, you know, like, so that's been my problem. I've been like kind of surrounded by that. And some other examples of that is I'm like, let's go back to my mother again. She was a great mother and how she like took care of us because she liked to clean, she liked to cook and she's well organized in the pantry with Stockton.                         But it meant that if it was time for dinner, it's time for dinner. It doesn't matter how pretty it is outside, if you want to ride bikes no sooner now kind of a person. And she wanted things done a certain way. So all of say I was very cared for, loved by what my mother did for us as her gift is, she is a servant through and through, never complaining. Right. Okay. So that's all like beautiful. But I'm not any of those things. So let me ask you a quick question that about her. Did she, you said she was a servant through and through. Did she have more of a servant, hospitable heart or did she do those things because it was the, the thing that needed to be done? Both. Both. Okay. Both. I would say both. Yeah. Because it was with joy.                         She did those things. So she had met Mary and her two. Oh yeah. Because, sure. Yeah. Strongly loved us and all that, but it was going to express itself through Martha and Scott. You know what I'm saying? Okay. That's just the right thing to do. Okay. So let me now transition to the Mary yes. Definition and the Mary personality by what I've just described. I think Mary's on the opposite end of this spectrum. I think she's abstract and random. And so what that looks like is that she's very driven by feelings to a fault. They are the higher calling and C, Martha, the higher calling is getting the job done. She's a thinker for Mary. The higher calling is really paying attention to her heart. It just is. It's the higher calling. And so Mary can put feelings above a task. That doesn't mean she's a loser.                         He's not lazy, but she can rank things differently. Sure. She's a free spirit and she's all over the place. She runs late. Forget a planner. I mean, I'm notoriously late. Truthfully, she's really not the most responsible woman. She's not the person you want to pile on too much responsibility cause it really just may not get done right. But it's really like okay with her, which is what Martha can never understand. Like mothers just doesn't understand that, you know? So in contrast how I said my mother very much love just by what she did for us. And that's just true. I really don't have a servant heart. I hate to admit it now. I love people. I'm a people person, but like I don't love people by what I do for them. I love people by the experience I'm going to have with them. Okay. It's just a little bit different because in my mind, I guess I'm like, well, you can get the ketchup.                         I mean, I just don't write about my chair where my mother would because I don't know what that's like an act of love for her. And I'm like, but, but because I'm, there's so much abstract as in so much feeling, everything's in tangible, but my values are love, joy, beauty, peace. That means what I'm going to do is I'm going to pray with you. I'm going to invest time with you. I may counsel you, I write, I'm going to journal, I'm going to ride bikes at sunset. And let dinner get cold. I mean I'm going to be spontaneous. Yep. It goes on and on, whereas, you know, like spontaneity and my mom like those just whatever, which by the way, I haven't permission to completely give her as an example because she's so smart that ever. And we have done one of these sessions together and the little quiz I have coming is all based on my mom and she totally loved this.                         So, I'm not picking on my mom because she knows absolutely how much I love her. And let me say those too. We've both grown a little as we've aged, I probably become more of a Mart than she's probably become more of a mirror in that sweet. I mean, you know, cause we all have, we all have some of this, but anyway I guess so being a Mary and eventually we'll get to homeschool with it, but it meant clearly I'm a softy mom who's going to struggle with boundaries. I'm going to struggle with, you know discipline. I'm going to struggle with rules because inside I don't like any of that. Right. routine and schedule actually just SAPs the life out of me. It stifles me. I want freedom. I want creativity. I want, yeah, I'm, I'm all that. And so, where Mark, that's going to get the job done.                         So, can you just imagine them in homeschool, right? I mean, you've got two very different homes. So anyway, I think you need to go to your little sponsor thing. Yes. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. So let's bring it back to homeschooling. And how does, how does being a Mary or a Martha relate to us as homeschool moms? Okay. Now again, I know I'm generalizing a little bit here. Give me some grace on that, but I could give you just four little snapshots. I think of what this means. A Martha looks like as a homeschool mom. All right, so you're ready? So I would say number one, this is the gal with lesson plans. Premade. Okay. And advanced. She's the pantry. Field trips. She can handle them. She's the co-op leader. And she should be like, this is the woman again.                         She's going to get it done. Yep. I would also say she might follow the classical model of education because we all know it's the hardest, takes a lot of preparation. I would say she again can run that homeschool co-op very well. And in my imagination, because I don't know, I'm not one, but I would imagine her homeschool is lined with filing cabinets and there's a place for everything. Yes. So we're at a timeline on her wall. Oh yeah. Yeah. It actually on the wall. Now in contrast, if we dropped Mary in to a homeschool world, and maybe this is just me, but she doesn't handle the lesson plans. She runs late for the field trips when you're as a field trip coordinator. And it was a mistake because it's like I had to make all the phone calls and didn't go very well.                         I liked them because I liked the adventure and spontaneity, but I need somebody else to organize it. Right. I would also say she's more inclined to follow an unschooling or eclectic approach because for one, she buys everything. She's feelings oriented. Right. So she can't make a decision. Right. You can't just pick one. Right. And she's all over the place. Let's see. I would also say you really don't want her in charge of your homeschool co-op, but you want her there on the committee to welcome the new people. Yeah, she's going to pray and counsel and share and love on them. That will come very natural to her. But you know, running the meetings, I don't know. And then last I would say her classroom is lined with artwork that she intends to frame one day, but you know, it's never going to happen.                         You know how hard it is to frame those little things, the momentum that you think you're going to frame. So I just have a little tip, Mary low. So if you're hanging up with one piece of scotch tape, you know what happens in time is those tops curl and then that little piece of artwork is curly. So just give up the idea that you're going to hang it in a frame because you're not, neither are you going to scrap bark, but hang it with two pieces of tape and don't last a lot longer. [inaudible] You're great. And then one day they all, yeah, to put the day that was, that was free Yvette:             So, okay, so in regards to actually homeschooling and figuring out who we are, you have a quiz? Linda:               Actually, why don't I give you the quiz. Okay. And let's see. I haven't heard these questions yet. I know I'm springing them on you. Just raw. I have to write this down. You do? Okay. So for your listeners, all of explain what I'm doing, I basically, I have 20 questions. Okay. So I'll try to go through them fast. Okay. 20 questions and really you either give yourself a minus one or a plus one depending on what I dropped down one through 20 [inaudible] cast right now. Yes. That might good. Helpful paper. Yeah, in Mary. Okay. Paper. You've got to go find paper and you're going to need to double space this. Just a quick one through 20 and if you're with a friend named Martha, she has a pen and paper for you. Now, you know, Mary actually didn't make it on time to the podcast even, you know she's not here.                         She's getting the, yeah, she's watching it later. Okay. Listening later, one through 20 I'll, I'll run through these quick and you're going to go minus one or plus one and then we're going to add them up at the end. And then we will, I have a scale that'll show you like where you lean. Okay. And by the way, this one are plus one minus ones or plus one. So you either get negatives or positives. Okay? By the way, if you wind up with a zero, you're like the perfect person. You're right in between the [inaudible] enjoying math. Am I going to have to add these at the end? You will. I use my calculator if you need to, but you know. Okay, so number one, okay. If more often than not, your library books are overdue. Give your cell phone minus one. Because what that means is that you probably am married.                         So, see Mary gets got minus ones. Okay? So that's it. Now. By the way, I'm notorious for being late at the library books. It doesn't matter how many times I write it down on the calendar, I just can't do it. And of course as homeschools, we take them by the basket, right? And so I always, I just, one's going to get lost under the couch. I just decided it was a handling fee and just paid them some. Okay. Number two, if you have ever menu planned for a month or have several meals in the freezer, give yourself a plus one because that's a Martha. So do I get it for myself? A zero self-esteem never happened. Yeah. If you have never menu plan for a month and you don't have meals in the freezer, if you don't, just put a zero. But if you have that, give yourself a plus.                         No one, Nope, never done that. Okay. Number three, if your family assumes you'll run late or you relate to this workshop, cause I usually do this in a workshop, give yourself a minus one the family just knows you'll be like minus one always late. Okay? Number four. If your shirts or shoes are organized by color, give yourself a plus one. See, I'm describing my mom. Everything's color coded in her closet. There's no way that's happening in my closet. Okay. Number. Let's see. Number five, if you're a curriculum junkie, because it's so hard to sell the old stuff, you get a minus one. So your curriculum junkie, you can't part with it cause you know how hard it is to sell curriculum on the internet. Oh my gosh. You have to [inaudible] numbers. That's a minus one. You can't do it. I got ya. Yeah. Number six, if you're in extreme coupon or, or at least close to it, you get a plus one.                         That's the thing with those coupons. I have time for that. I've decided coupons. I mean, why did they want to pay me for cutting out little pieces of paper? I just really don't understand that. I just go with, there's a tag and it's yellow, then it costs less and I buy three coupons. I throw them away. I can't do it. I like your logic. I can't do it. It's can I? Oh I know. Yeah. And I know some gals who beat me up for that. But you're good at it. They're gifted and they should do it, but like I'm not cause they're Martha's given it up. Right. Number seven if you're to do list is on the, on the back of your hand or on an envelope or on a receipt, you get a minus. Wow. Okay. Confession. Friends. I had to really work hard to give her this piece of paper.                         She's at my house and I had a hard time finding it. Aren't you glad I didn't give you an envelope writing this on my arm? I'd have to, by the way, I don't know where many Martha's who write on the back of their hands, but this is a Mary thing and I sometimes wish Sharpie. I put an important note right there. Oh yeah. No, I don't. You know, I'm pretty certain I'm a Mary, but I do not write on my hands. Okay. I don't like my hands to be dirty. Oh, okay. Well that's, that's bothersome to me. That's funny. All right. Number nine, if you scribe [inaudible] as one, we're on eight. Oh, don't listen to my numbers cause I've moved some things around. Okay. Okay. Next. If you cry spontaneously to love songs on the radio or to hymns at church, give yourself a minus one. Yvette:             Oh no, I don't. That's why you don't cry. I am not a crier. Oh my goodness. Linda:               Okay. Number 10 if you buy in bulk, but you work out of labeled containers that are just the right size for your cabinets or cupboards, you get a plus one. Oh. So if you're that lady, you know, you go to Costco, you buy in bulk, and then you have a place for it at home and smaller individual, not me. Okay. But that's my mom numb. Next. If you often start school in your pajamas and you do family read-alouds from your bed, which is unmade, well you get a minus one. There's just nothing like Charlotte's Web in the sheets. Right, right from the sheets.                         I love read-alouds in the bed yet unmade. And that was the, that was [inaudible] doesn't mind this one because I time everything. Got it. Next, if you organize small parties or meetings on an Excel spreadsheet, you get a plus one. I think that Martha and Excel go well together. Huh? Here's the next one. If you save the baby teeth of your children, give yourself a minus. What does a pregnancy test count? Because the [inaudible] I have saved my pregnancy. Is that disgusting? I shouldn't admit that on kids baby teeth. It's over time break apart, but I have them. I can tell you where they are in these little containers in my bedroom. Here's, here's my theory. I feel like, listen, those baby teeth are like metals of honor because you know how hard it was for them to get those towels. That's how you feel about the pregnancy test.                         11 stinking years! It took me to get as and or pregnancy tests. Why you can't, I had many, many negative ones, so yeah, after that many years to get a positive one, you keep it still in a Ziploc. At least put it in a Ziploc. It's fine. She washed them off. But yeah, these babies, he's like, we should make jewelry or something. [inaudible] That baby in the middle of the night. We were cutting those tapes together, making back lists out of my pregnancy test, I promise. Okay. That would be gross. Oh wait, where were we? Is that the minus one? And you're getting one for having a pregnancy test or I'll have to change my desk. Okay. Okay. we just got a few more. If you had a shopping list for a homeschool convention before you went [inaudible], you get a plus one, or maybe you just know what you're going to, you know, next year. Linda:               If you pray often for God's mercy because of mistakes that you've made, you get a minus one. Say again, I think, by the way, let me answer it. This little thing about Mary, you know, sometimes I think when pastors talk about Mary and Martha and they talk about Mary at the feet of Jesus, I think they make her out to be this very saintly, Holy woman. And I'm like, you know, Martha was the faithful one who's not going to break the rules and get into Mischief. But Mary, I don't think she was at Jesus's feet cause she was so wholly, my personal theory is I think she was a very broken woman with a lot of sin in her life who was at his feet out of pure worship and need, and so again, if you're the woman praying for God's mercy a lot, because you really, you know, you don't, you don't keep healthy boundaries easily.                         You, you do make mistakes. Big ones. I think that's a Mary thing. Okay. Anyway, I just think that's a misunderstanding of her. It is speed. It's not good. She likes this flow. Right, right, right. It's more like, Oh yeah, she needs Jesus. She needs Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Next, on a much lighter note, if you set up the coffee pot or tea before you go to bed at night, you get up plus one. When I go home to see my mother, this always happens. She'll be like, Hey honey, so do you want to set the coffee up tonight? I'm like, why would I do today what I can do tomorrow? She though would set her teapot up at night before she goes to bed. So then in the morning she just has turned it on, like just got a little cups go, we'll take it.                         And I never, I don't do that. No I don't do that. My oldest daughter who I told you is a Martha really? And that's because she started making her own lesson plans in fifth grade. That's when I figured that out. Why we're making them. She started making her own. I'm like, Oh you need more structure. Yeah. So anyway, she told me to like a week ago, I kid you not. She's like, Oh by the way, cause he just got this new workout routine and she's like, I'm just making the coffee like at night, but not turning it on. But I have it already and I just bust it out loud. I'm like, you are a Martha, like as you're doing it at night before you go to bed, which a great idea, but I'm just not in my universe. It's not going to happen. Okay. Sorry I do today.                         What you could put off till tomorrow. That's kind of, and I think this is, Oh no. Okay, hold on. Almost there. If you unpack the same day that you get home from a trip, I think you get a plus one because the end of a trip, no, I'm going to unpack my hair products. Right. My toothbrush and that was about it. The rest is going to sit for a couple of days. Just beat. I can't do that now. But Martha is in the, it is sorted. It is, yeah. My husband impacts the day he gets home. I mean it's put away if one lunch this week was a happy and granola bar that you found in the bottom of your purse, you'd get a minus one because he, again, Mary's, I'm thinking of time. Time is a tangible thing and she's into intangibles. That's why she runs late. She doesn't manage time well.                         So, she forgot she was leaving to run an errand right near noon when she should be hungry or you know, it's not on her radar. Right. So lunch is the granola bar. Yeah, bottom of the purse. If you offer your house, gets a hot breakfast, you get a plus one. I think that's kind of a Mark the thing now friends, she spent the night with me last night and she got boiled eggs this morning. But I don't know if that counts. You didn't get like paying the whole [inaudible]. I think it counts. They were delicious. But I gave you like a buffet. Yes it was fantastic. But Martha could do more than that. It was pretty, it wasn't, you know what? And by the way, some people listen to me giving this and they just kind of assume like maybe I'm just a disaster like around my house and stuff because they know claiming to be like a Mary who's a little bit, all this storehouse is very [inaudible] and comfortable.                         Well, I'll tell you why I figured that out. Mary is inspired by beauty to the point that she might keep it kind of tidy. Well, don't go look in my drawers event, right? Because there'll be real messy on the inside. But on the outside is kept kind of pretty because that does motivate me. I need that. So my space is, you know, kind of together. Yes. But that's different from, you know, they're different. So anyway. Okay. We're getting closer. Spontaneous field trips that count for school. You get a minus one, right. Can I go on field trip 10 on that one? You know, like, Hey look, there's a Caterpillar Digger next door. Yes. Dig it up, whatever. Let's count that. We travel full time almost. I mean right now full time, the other day we were driving through Texas and we came across Cadillac ranch, which I had never heard of before.                         And it's this random place in the middle of the desert where this artist, he, he buried a bunch of Cadillacs in the ground. Like they're like standing halfway up like Stonehenge kind of. Yes. Kind of get a storm. I got a point. Yes. And then it gets better because people take spray paint cans out there and you can spray paint on the Cadillacs. They've been there for like 40 something years. I'm from Texas and I don't know about Cadillac. One part of Texas. Where is this? Oh, I don't know. Panhandle. Oh no, but I don't know. Okay. Texas is huge. It is huge. So it's, I could have missed it somewhere in Texas. That's a great, it's on route 66 I can tell you that much. I couldn't tell you the town. But it's fascinating. And so there, I mean it does. Are we doing here that tourist field trips, spontaneous, spontaneous field trips and so we drove by it and we both were like stop the car. We have to go to Cadillac ranch and start. It's an, and it was amazing and our girls had a great time cause they got to spray paint cars cause who gets to do that? And that's fun. That's neat. Anyway, continue on. I'm sorry, we've got one more. Can you tell you got two Mary's here. So I tried. Okay. And you said I had one more. Okay. You're carrying a planner right now. Give yourself plus one cause you're sitting right here at my kitchen table. But normally I'm often Yvette:             Doing this at a convention and so if they have a planner on them, they get a point. So, okay, let's does a phone count as a planner? Well you've got a phone nearby. I always have my phone. You all near me and I always have my planner on my phone. I can't tell if your planner is on your phone then. Okay, so this is a plus one. You got a plus one plus one. Okay. Yes. Oh my. Okay. So now I need to yes, you add that up too quick and I'm going to give you a scale. We'll find out what you are, our listeners, I hope you'll be doing the same. And then based on your results, we have a couple of closing remarks. Okay.                         So, I have negative four. Oh, okay. Oh, you said Oh you want to meet. Okay. So here's how it goes with the points. So if you are M minus 10 to a minus four. Okay. Really are a married, I am married [inaudible] but you're a low scoring married. Okay. Which means I hear a little bit of Martha too, right? Yeah, yeah. Or it's balanced cause like a minus 10 is the, so you're saying I balanced is what you're really saying. Well, hold on. I want to show you, see if you're a minus three, two a plus three Oh really? A Mary Martha mix. Okay. Very healthy. So you're real close to that. Okay. Yeah. So you have some tendencies. Okay, you're close, but you, you are. Okay. Now if you scored a plus forward to a plus 10 I think you really are a Martha. Oh no.                         Yeah. And that's not what you scored. So like I literally would score minus 10 on this. Okay. Oh and my mother was four plus 10 wow. Okay. Like we are the very opposites. Every everybody saying is a true story here on my little, which is incredible because when we look at our children and how we educate our kids, and I love that you said with your daughter you realized and for fifth grade that she was a Martha. It's very helpful to understand our children's personalities, especially if they differ from our own. And, and that helps us to educate them better at home because if we don't understand them and how they think and how they respond to life, if you have a, if you're a Mary and you have a Martha for each child and you're trying to homeschool them and a Merry world, it will frustrate them.                         But, and also the flippy disciple. And if you, if you're a Martha and you're trying to educate your Mary child, you're making a cry, you're going to make them cry and you're going to fight with them and battle with them. And it's going to be a constant, the battle between the two of you. So what's the answer? How and a new way to celebrate this in what I would say is, first of all, I encourage, if you're a Martha, embrace that and always be a Martha. God has given you gifts and talents. Go change the world and use them. And if you're a Mary, do the same. Embrace your Mary cause God gave you, and maybe you're an impasse, maybe you're feelings driven. And maybe that means life isn't always pristine and it can get messy. Sometimes it does and a lot of drama can follow Mary. Sure. However, if that's how you're designed, embrace Linda:               It and think about who Jesus said would be remembered in eternity at the same time that gospel would be preached. He was referring to Mary's extravagant act of worship. The woman who is again appears to be a broken woman who truly loves him out of the deep need. And so it's like if that's you, then just wear it and love it and let Jesus just be worshiped. Mean. She wiped his feet with her tears and yes, I could cry about right now thinking about that because that moves me so much like I'm trying to imagine if I could see Jesus and how I would so want to fall before he sure did he ever saved me. I mean, I am a broken woman. I am. I have made a lot of mistakes in my life and I've been redeemed. The gospel is good news. It is good news that Jesus saves.                         And so, like Mary just hold onto that and take a ride with that. And you're not going to get this homeschooling all done well, right? You're just not farmed out what you can. As a matter of fact, I have 10 tips for all marries who are listening and we can do that as a bonus time. Okay. But just in closing, for those who you know, need to cut it whichever you are, embrace it. Because Jesus loved Mary and Martha and Lazarus and what great plans he had even in their crisis. Yes. And isn't that assuring that there's always plans, there's God's plans, you be a Lazarus dies and they're still a good plan that Jesus has out of that. So anyway, I just wanted to say that, but homeschooling, I think it's a Martha world. It's heavy and Nat [inaudible] sufficient. And so I had felt over the years, you know, like some that I just didn't measure up.                         I mean, I didn't go to bed feeling very successful all the time. And as a homeschool mom and I had to adjust to my kids to get back to them. My kids were all far more structured than me. Yeah. I was the most free spirit of the family, so I had to step up. I needed to adapt and sometimes I just had to step up and that's what I will share as a couple of quick tips I have for Mary for the married life, and I love that about you because now your children are all grown, they're all married, you've got grandkids, and so I love that. I can look at women like you who have been there especially who have been Ameri and you felt like you were messing it up because we talk about that a lot. We talked about that in the movie.                         We talk about that on the podcast. I just had dinner with a couple of friends the other night and we all were talking about how we just feel like we're just messing it all up. I said, you know, it's so funny because oftentimes people will come to me and asked me questions about homeschooling and I can give them every reason why they should homeschool, but don't ask me how to homeschool because I feel I'm, I'm a Mary and I definitely always feel inadequate. I always feel like I'm messing it up and, and God continues to show me over and over again that he's doing it. Now he's using me and I still, like you said, I still have to be diligent. I can't just throw up my hands and say, Oh well God's going to do everything to be done. But at the same time, God's to fill in the gaps Yvette:             And there are always going to be gaps. But it's so encouraging to me to talk to a mom like you who's been there and now we can see the results of what your children have, have turned out to, you know, they are productive adults who love Jesus and that's what it's all about. Yeah. I still think we could call ourselves a successful homeschool family. And I have one last word. Some people may be listening going, and she's the one that wrote The Mystery of History. And in case that shakes your confidence in me because like you're writing behind the scenes that I'm not an altogether woman. Well, that's because God, to God be the glory. Amen. I ever authored the minister of history, but you know what ins, what drove those words? It was my feelings. SOC like I didn't pick a Martha to write and he picked a Mary.                         That's wrong. Because I think that history handled through some emotion and feeling we better see his hand in it. So anyway, that's where the passion comes from. And so, but it was hard and you can see that and how hard it was for me to do this. God, were you sure? Yes. He was like, I got this. You know, because for what? It's about him, right? I didn't invent these stories. They're nice stories and say any way he was able to use something that the world might call weak, right? Oh, to shine on him. But he has used you in an amazing way. And we were just talking about this at dinner tonight. And I was saying the thing I love most about the ministry of history is that it's easy for me as a homeschool mom to be able to use that curriculum because really I feel like I'm just kind of talking through it and having a conversation with my kids about it instead of it being so rigid textbook because I'm a Mary, I am not a rigid textbook kind of girl.                         Drives me nuts. And for some, you know, for the Martha's out there, they love that. And that works for them though the ministry of history is shine it. Yes, there's plenty of structure in it and there are, I mean, you can take it in several different directions as far as how deep you want to go with it. But for me it's great because I can see your emotion in it. I can see you didn't just take the facts and write them on a page. You, you brought meaning and feeling into it. Yes. And I love that about it. So, and it's all from a Biblical perspective, which that's what it's all about for us. So really quickly let me ask you, you've got the quiz is this, we do of course show notes that people can refer to on the podcast. Do you have that quiz handy that I can, we can send to people?                         Well, the best way probably did get that. It would be if your listeners wanted to get hold of the workshop, I had this workshop recorded in full and then they can get a little bit more and the quizzes are part of that and they can stop and start and take that. So yes, we can make sure that you're listing okay. To special coupon code. We'll put that in the notes. Okay. Okay. So we'll put a coupon code in the notes and give them access to that and then you can give them the final results of whether they're married or Martha or a Mary Martha. Yes. That scale will be a part of that is great. We are going to stop with the podcast, but for our backstage pass members, we're going to continue on. And you're going to talk about 10 tips. 10 quick tips for those of us who are married Mary homeschool mom doesn't need to hear this because she already knows what she's doing. She's a pretty natural at this. This is the struggle in Mary and there just a few little things I did. I mean these aren't like, this isn't rocket science. You just a few little [inaudible].                         Okay, so we'll continue on with that for backstage pass members. If you're not a backstage pass member yet, definitely go on the schoolhouse rock website, go to backstage pass member and then you can learn more about what that is, and you have access to all kinds of amazing videos and content and stuff. Linda:               And please subscribe to my website too - TheMysteryofHistory.com. Yvette:             And send Linda really kind emails and tell her how wonderful she has because I know that “Marys” need to hear those things. “Marys” have feelings and sometimes I think people I know we're way over time, but that's okay. I know sometimes people, they'll see your name on a book. You know, this lady Linda Lacour Hobar wrote The Mystery of History and, and you become a, almost a character to them instead of a real person.                         And it's been so neat to just get to know you over the last couple of days and though we've met before, but being in someone's home is completely different. And so, you know, we've, we've lived with you for the last couple of days. I've gotten to know your girls and that's a life changer for me because it's all about those. They are, when I get to meet the kids, that's the best class I write for them. Yep. Your girls are precious. Well and they love you and they were excited to hear your voice and attach me to the life. Yes, yes. Cause we listened to your audio. But thank you for what you are doing for the homeschool community and for all that God is doing through you. It's all for his glory. So thank you backstage. Mass members continue on with the video. It will be available in backstage past and we'll talk about 10 tips for us marries. And in the meantime, you guys have a great week. Thank you for listening today and we will see you back here next week. Bye.  

The cavnessHR Culture Podcast – A talk with Larry Naylor – President/COO of Naylor 2 Enterprise, LLC (N2E) – SDVOSB https://www.cavnessHR.com Larry's Social Media!! Website: https://www.naylor2enterprise.com/ Larry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ldnaylor/ Larry's Resources!! For anyone that reaches out to us. Let us know that they're looking for an opportunity to receive some awesome transformational leadership initiatives in their organization. If they contact us and let us know that they heard this in relation to this podcast, we are going to provide discounts to them for that. Daniella Larry is the President and Chief Operations Officer for Naylor 2 Enterprise. N2E is a Veteran and Minority-owned small business that provides corporate training, development and administrative management consulting services to U.S. and international organizations. At N2E, he's responsible for the conduct and business operations of global transformative leadership and consulting service initiatives. Earlier in his career, Larry gained extensive leadership experience while serving 20 years as a commissioned officer in the army, where you retired as a Lieutenant Colonel. He spent 13 years with L three Technologies, Inc, a $10 billion company where he was the Director of Training and operations for global trade and master trainer. Responsible for providing leadership training to 38,000 employee infrastructure. So Larry is like super leadership guy. He's probably the most qualified leadership guy we've had on our podcast so far. He's got a bachelor's, Master's, all kinds of training certificates, most recently got a coaching certification from Georgetown, I believe. Larry is very active in several different organizations, including the Society for Human Resource Management, Association of United States Army, and the Society for International Affairs. So Larry, can you tell us something that you are working on these days? That is super exciting? Larry Absolutely Daniella, I would have to say several things are going on right now. But what most exciting is to be able to work specifically for a law enforcement agency. We are working to put together a leadership program. What that program does is it's transforming the department. To see that happening right in front of your eyes, where people from the sheriff down to the sergeant are realizing that there is a better way to do things and to watch them self transform. To recognize that wait a minute, I am. I am I'm different. Because I see myself now I'm, this is amazing. It's exciting, not barring the fact that leadership when you look at the essence of leadership, and when you sit people down and talk to them about the importance of it, and how you can see the lights come on.  Daniella It's so interesting that you mentioned law enforcement, and people tend to think of law enforcement teams, military teams, as some of these very high-speed organizations as Oh, they're just great teams, right? They're great teams, they have great leaders, they don't need to work on it. But you're saying that they do need to work on and they are working on it, which is great. Larry Absolutely. I think most organizations realize once someone comes in, and there's a moment of silence, and it allows them to reflect on who they think they are, as opposed to who and what they should be. They do realize that we probably could do some changing here. Especially in law enforcement organizations. Maybe we should think about looking at another way of doing things, approaching people talking to people and things like that. I think the military is doing that and, of course, I'm a few years removed now. But I'm hearing out there in the winds that the winds of change are starting to blow where the old school military of because I said so is changing now to be more encompassing of the group. Bottom line the mission still needs to happen. But just because you ask others, instead of just telling them and commanding them. Once you ask them, they will probably follow you with the same zeal, purpose and commitment. Because they feel like you love them enough to ask them their opinion and allow them to do it. So I think that's where we're headed. Daniella It's interesting, the bottom line is the mission still needs to happen in any corporation, right. But a strong culture and a strong team is going to get you to your mission so much faster. I think what the modern sort of leadership is starting to learn, and it's starting to realize. think in the military for the longest time in the in sort of the special disciplines, we already knew that. Right? So in intelligence, which is what I did, we knew that I can order how much can I order my guy to analyze and give me the best information? Not much, right? If he's not motivated to do it he can order a bare minimum of outcomes. But you can inspire kind of a lot more and if you let the experts live in their expertise like they will give you so much more information than you even want. Larry Yeah, that's true. That is true. Daniella Okay, so Larry, you became an Officer in the Army, the year before I was born. You retired a few years before I commissioned. Which means for the listeners that even though Larry and I are comrades in arms, we both served in pretty different militaries. As Larry kind of already alluded to. So Larry, as we heard, is now basically a leadership expert. He was telling me about some of the changes that he's noticed in the definition and practice of leadership over the years. Can you tell us a little bit more about that, whether that was your time in the military or your time in the corporate sector. Larry So as you said, Daniella, I started out in 86 and my first assignment was in Germany. That's the whole Cold War era. I'm a 23 year old kid out of college. I was taught and bred to do what needs to be done, salute the flag, make it happen. I grew up through that time, from the wall, the Cold War, the wall coming down, and then through Gulf War One, and into 911 and deploying into Afghanistan, 101st, in 911. So I think my career spans a lot of different things in there. A lot in a short amount of time. In that 20 years, we went from cold war all the way to post 911.  Larry So what I've what I learned as I continue to mature in the military, I grew up in an environment where you just do what you're told to do. You don't necessarily question, you just execute. You do that, well, you succeed. Then you go to the next level, and you expect everybody under you to do the same thing and they execute and it just works. I will say, when I moved from Afghanistan, coming into the Department of State, I spent about five years there at State Department, I had just left Afghanistan, and I flew back to the United States. There I was, and the environment was different. The language was different and the actions were different.  Larry I struggled because I didn't understand that there was a transformation that was taking place from the military side to coming to the United States Department of State. The leadership styles were different and then from there, I went to corporate America. The leadership styles were absolutely different. I would say that I kind of lived through that to state government, local government, excuse me to federal government, and then to defense contracting. I realized that leadership is distinctly different in each one of those areas. But ultimately, today, after I had an opportunity to teach leadership, to, as you said, a 38,000 employee organization. I live leadership and probably didn't even realize how much you learn and gleaned out of being a military person over the years being thrust into it. Today, after understanding and believing that this is my calling, now. I do see that there are different ways to lead. I have started to look at the transformational leader. Larry If you can't love me, you can't lead me. Now, most people would say, I don't believe in that touchy feely part of things. Just do what I say, well, love has a big meaning. Love means, do you love me enough to whereas the leader, would you sacrifice yourself for me. Would the leader sacrifice themselves, so others may gain versus sacrificing others so that they gain? That's one of the things that I think is really important. As we get into this new type of leadership, we start to realize that you can't lead the way you used to. We're in an organization, we're in a time where four generations are together, and therefore generations worth of fault. There are all kinds of diversity things that are going on now. That same square hold leadership is probably not going to fit in today's round hole. So I have started to realize that a lot of changes that are taking place in leadership, and we're at the cusp of this transformational leadership shift. It is great to be there and I have a lot to offer. I'm looking forward to hopefully getting in front of even more people and explaining to them and getting them to realize that there is an another more effective way lead people to the things that you want them to accomplish. Daniella Now it's interesting, Larry, that you said people find talking about love and leadership to be touchy feely. Most people would probably categorize military leadership as not touchy feely. But the first thing we learn as leaders in the military is that leaders eat last. The whole concept of that is exactly what you said, you through eating last are signaling. I am willing to not eat if there's not enough food, which means, you know, going way way back to homo sapien fighting for food. I am willing to die for you are in modern day 2019, signaling to these people. I'm willing to die for you. Will you let me lead you? That's a very hardcore, not touchy feely concept.  Larry It's funny, you should say that Daniella, I use that term a lot. When I'm teaching leadership, leaders eat last. For some people, it's like what I have to eat first because I need to have nourishment to be able to lead the people. it is a sign of sacrifice, a sign of devotion to your people. So grasp that leaders eat last. So good, good point. Daniella I think probably for all of us, you mentioned being a 23 year old kid right out of the Academy, right or out of ROTC? Larry Out of ROTC, that's correct. Daniella I had a similar experience 22 year old kid out of a commissioning program and you are obsessed with being the best. You think you need to outperform everyone else? How long do you think it took you to realize that being a leader was not about you, but was about your team? Larry It's funny that you should ask that question because there is a paradigm in there. Back, in those days, there was the zero defect army. I mean, you have to be near perfect, or you walk on water, and you just get wet to the ankle. I mean, you had to be that person. So what it caused is this, do not mess with me, don't touch me, because I got to be perfect. So micromanagement was a huge thing. All kinds of things came into play that caused people to be that way. Now, that's one end of the pendulum. The other end was that people started to realize in that era, what it caused was people's inability to feel like they could make a mistake. Or feel like they can allow their people to do things and use their own intuitive nature and ideas. It created this environment where you just felt like you couldn't do anything other than got to be perfect. It's got to be spot on. It causes you to grow up in an environment and a culture where you struggle with making a mistake.  Daniella You're speaking to my heart because there's so much danger in the zero defect environment. By the way, it's still a zero defect environment for women in the military, and a lot of other industries, of course. But I am very glad to hear that these great leaders like you and leadership trainers are thinking about this. Larry We're teaching a law enforcement organization here in a few days, called women in leadership. I am starting to realize even more as a black man. I used to feel like I've got to do 110%, just to be equal with everybody else. Now I'm thinking about what it must feel like sometimes and in a workplace environment, as a woman. Who is intelligent, who is absolutely capable of doing even more than many others. I wonder if they have that same feeling that I have that I really can't explain and articulate. Daniella I think I can articulate it. So when you are a member, this of course my personal belief. When you are a member of a minority group, of which women are still considered one. You represent that entire group in a way that a member of the majority doesn't. So, for example, when you Larry, as a man in the military, messed up. Did something wrong made a mistake, you were Larry, the soldier making a mistake. When I mess up and make a mistake, this is why women shouldn't be in the military. Right? So Daniella Young had to carry the weight of representing all females on her shoulder in the military because we're such a minority there. You probably had this experience as a black man in corporate America or somewhere else that you represent all African American people in all of your actions. That is far too heavy of a burden for any of us to carry. Larry Also with that, because it is true, where you feel like you are representing as a leader. You're representing the greater organization or people. So everything you do is going to maybe impress others that are watching to have a perception of everybody that's like you that. So it causes you to feel like you have to ensure that you present yourself the best at all times. Which comes back to part of that theme that works within you as as a leader where you feel that has to be the case, and you're constantly making sure you push yourself to do that. Because you're you're representing something much bigger than you. Daniella I'd be interested to get your opinion on this. When you allow people to see holes that you have or places where you're not perfect? Well, other people might have skills in those areas that are on your team that have a specific skill in that area that you wouldn't have known about. Larry There are five principles that I kind of adhere to, when I'm doing training. Empathy, esteem, support, share, and involve. Most of the time, leaders will give someone responsibility to do something. But because there's zero defect mentality, or they feel like it can't be done, as well as if I if we're not doing it. They tend to remove the responsibility to the individual. Because Okay, if they turn in a 50% solution, you're like, okay, I'll tell you what, I'll work on it from here. Most of your subordinates realize that's what you do. So they only do half anyway, because you know, you're going to take it and do it.  Larry But if you can figure out a way to involve your people, to where they take that as their own, and they actually feel great doing it. That's what makes the difference. A lot of times, leaders do not realize that you cannot function. These people are the wind beneath your wings. They are the literal air that you breathe. So if you do not empower them, and give them and involve them in the opportunities to do great things, without removing the responsibility, allow them to do it. If it's not done to exactly what your standard is, based on your perception of what right looks like, it's okay. As long as it's ethical and legal, moral and safe. Because what's going to happen, it's going to snowball, it's going to pay bigger dividends down the road.  Daniella Larry, we're gonna have to wrap up soon. Unfortunately, I know. We could go forever. We'll have to have you back on in the future. Larry I would love it. Thank you. Daniella So Larry, are you providing a gift or a discount for listeners today? Larry Yes, I am. As a matter of fact, I would love to, for anyone that reaches out to us. Let us know that they're looking for an opportunity to receive some awesome transformational leadership initiatives in their organization. If they contact us, and let us know that they heard this in relation to this podcast, we are going to provide discounts to them for that. Daniella Perfect, and  what's the best way to contact you, Larry. Larry So the best way to contact us is if you would, you can go to our website, it's www. Naylor2 enterprise.com or you can actually look me up on LinkedIn, Larry Naylor, I'm out there. You can actually see a lot of the information that we have. But if you go to our website, you can see some of our capabilities in leadership and in coaching, as well as international and global trade compliance and things like that. We'd love to come and talk to your people. We love what we do. We're passionate about it, because it makes a greater greater America, greater culture, greater world that we're living in. So we're so looking forward to doing those types of things. Daniella Perfect and all of the links and how to get in contact with Larry will be on our show notes, which are found www.cavnessHRblog.com. Okay, Larry, 20 seconds, what's one piece of advice for our listeners? Larry One piece of advice for our listeners. Leading is an art form. Leadership is a gift, but the ability to portray that so that your people will follow is where the magic actually happens. So I would empower all of the leaders who are out there, and it goes back to the beginning of what I said. Leadership Is loving your people, sacrificing yourself so that others may gain. Then in the end, you will realize that was what you were set out to do from the very beginning. Leaders lead from the front and leaders eat last.  Daniella Larry, thank you for so much for sharing so much value on our show today. Can't wait to have you back on and thank you to all of our listeners Remember to be great every day. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

In the first of 2 parts, Cobie and John sit down with Mr. Larry Alexander to reflect on his 38 years of working in 4-H, and what his plans are in retirement. Transcript: Announcer: This is 4-H-4-U-2, a podcast from the Mississippi State University Extension Service promoting 4-H programs and positive youth development. Here now, your host, Dr. John Long and Cobie Rutherford. John Long: And we are back again. Welcome to another edition, podcast if you will, broadcasting from Bost Extension Center. This is 4-H-4-U-2. I'm your host, John Long. Cobie Rutherford: And I'm Cobie Rutherford. John Long: And we are back at it again, Cobie. Cobie Rutherford: Yes we are, John. It's been a crazy week here on campus. John Long: Yeah. It's summertime. Cobie Rutherford: The students are starting to come back for orientation. There's football camps everywhere. It's an exciting time to be on campus. John Long: I'm excited to be here today. Of course, I'm always excited to do these podcasts. I mean, it's kind of like the highlight of my week so far. It's just like I can't wait for them to be here. So I'm pumped up about this. I'm also pumped up about our guest today. We have Mr. Larry Alexander and he's also known as Mr. 4-H. And we are going to talk to him today about his career. And Larry, tell everybody, how long have you been in 4-H? Larry Alexander: So, I've been in 4-H exactly, this past June 1st, 38 years. John Long: 38 years. Almost as old as I am. Larry Alexander: That's right. Cobie Rutherford: Wow. John Long: No, it's not, though. It's not that long. Larry Alexander: You're dating me, John. John Long: No, no, no. I'm a young man. I'm a young man. So Larry, tell us a little bit about yourself, where you were born and raised and just a little bit of background about you. Larry Alexander: Okay. So I'm really old Delta country boy. Grew up in a little small town of Ruleville, Mississippi. And of course, when I'm away from Ruleville, I have to tell everybody I'm from either Greenwood or Cleveland, because they'd never heard of Ruleville before. But got my start in, kind of on a farm. And then we finally moved to the city limits of Ruleville. But came up on the farm and Ruleville has been my stomping ground for a long time. John Long: Yeah. Yeah. And it's, Ruleville's like you can't get to Cleveland if you don't, from the- Larry Alexander: That's correct. John Long: I mean, I guess you could, but you have to go through it to get to Cleveland sometimes. So that's awesome. And I got tickled once I found out where Larry lived. And where his daddy still lives. Larry Alexander: That's correct. John Long: I drove by his house my whole life and never even knew it and I was like, oh really, that's your house? Anyway, that's neither here nor there. So from the Delta, what's your educational background? Larry Alexander: My undergrad degree is agriculture education with an emphasis in biological science. Then of course my master's degree is in AIS, which most of ... Started a few classes toward the PhD but didn't quite get there so. But that is my educational background. John Long: That's awesome. And you went to school? Larry Alexander: Alcorn State University for my undergrad and then my graduate work was here at Mississippi State University. John Long: And that's a pretty good little ways from my home, I would say at that time, right? I mean- Larry Alexander: Roughly about three, three and a half hours and never being away from home before going that far, it seemed like forever to get there. Yeah. John Long: It's a little homesickness at first, probably? Larry Alexander: Yeah, first few weeks. You know, as a matter of fact, a little bit of funny, I had a friend of mine that we majored in the same thing, went to school together and when we went for freshman orientation, we didn't go. I have a sister that lives in Vidalia, Louisiana, which is just across the bridge or Natchez. So on about, we went down on Monday and freshman orientation was Monday through Wednesday. And so by Wednesday my sister finally asked me, she said, have y'all got your classes and all of that? And we looked at each other and we didn't have a clue. So we had to beat it back to Alcorn to get registered because we didn't know any difference. John Long: Otherwise you'd just been walking around campus having a good time. Larry Alexander: That's right, just having a good time. John Long: That's right, that's right. Living that college life. Cobie Rutherford: So what are some of the things at Alcorn Mr. Larry, Or experiences you had growing up that kind of led you to a career in agriculture and in service, really? Larry Alexander: Well, Cobie, it's funny you ask that question because when I first went to Alcorn, I did have an idea that I wanted to do something in agriculture, I just didn't know what that was at the time. So it took me a semester, or a year, to kind of decide that I wanted to do something in the Ag Education arena. But my first thought was possibly being a Vocational Agriculture teacher. Cobie Rutherford: Oh, yeah. Larry Alexander: Because actually the gentleman that directed me to Alcorn was Bobby Boone, was our Vocational Ag educator, and he kind of talked us into going to Alcorn sort of. But I had a sister and a brother that both went there, but then he helped me kind of decide which direction I wanted to go. But I had not heard of the Extension program within the first year being there. So that came a little later, yeah. Cobie Rutherford: Right, right, right. John Long: So you mentioned him or some other people that kind of influenced your educational direction, didn't it? Larry Alexander: Well, my oldest sister, been in education forever, seems like, but over 40 years. She coached me a lot along the way. But my old dad had always thought that I would be doing something in the Ag field, just didn't know what it was. And with him not having a college degree, he didn't know all the ins and outs and details of what you could major in and all. But he kind of kept me focused on Ag because he said it seemed like I got a joy out of doing something in the Ag field, so. John Long: Right. Larry Alexander: But Mr. Bobby Boone really enlightened us on the ins and outs of Ag, so. John Long: That's cool. And then actually working on the farm- Larry Alexander: That's correct. John Long: I mean, you had that background, so. Larry Alexander: That's really all we knew at the time, yeah. John Long: Right, right. Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, it's kind of cool looking back and thinking about the experiences that you provide to so many 4-H'ers about teaching them about careers and different STEM and agricultural areas in the career field. And you know, there's a lot of things that kids don't know about till they actually come to the university. John Long: That's right. I didn't know what I wanted to do either. Larry Alexander: Well, I think a lot of people are like that. And I think I took that with me as I started my career, especially in 4-H because I got to work with a lot of children in Marshall County, which is where I got my start in Extension. They would go to school every day, but they really never thought about what it was they wanted to do. And when we started talking about all of the opportunities that agriculture had to offer and the Extension Service had to offer, you kind of channel young people in at an early stage in their education to figure it out early so you don't wait till you're a sophomore in college to decide what you want to do. John Long: That's right. And it kind of forces you to make it a lifetime career decision that's in a rush. Larry Alexander: That's correct. John Long: But yeah, that's great. I was always envious of people that knew what they wanted to do right off the bat. You know, but sometimes that's really, I guess, not the best. But I would have liked to have known maybe a little bit sooner. So you mentioned that, I guess your first introduction to 4-H was in Marshall County. Larry Alexander: That is correct. John Long: When was that? Larry Alexander: Actually, in 1981. John Long: Okay. Larry Alexander: It was when I went to my first job there in Marshall County. And another little story about that, I went on June 1st, which was a Monday. And that was the start, so Ronnie Jones was the County Ag Agent there. He was supposed to take me over to meet the board and the board would approve the position and we would go forward. Well, the board didn't approve that position. So Ronnie didn't know what to do and he said, well Lar, I'll tell you what, you just go on back home and I'll get this all straightened out and we'll call you back. Well, I went home, but I was trying to get, I'm into cars a little bit and so my daddy worked with a big dealership in Illinois, so I called him and said, hey, I'm on my way. And he said, no, you just go back home. They got something mixed up. But I almost missed my calling- John Long: Wow. Larry Alexander: ... in the extension arena because if he had said, come on, I probably wouldn't have got a second chance- John Long: Really? Larry Alexander: ... to go for that job. But the job had already been approved, the board just, they paid me $25 a month. John Long: Wow. Oh my gosh. Larry Alexander: That was the percentage that they paid of my salary a month. John Long: Oh, wow. Larry Alexander: But they couldn't come to an agreement on whether they needed the position because they had not had a 4-H Youth Agent for about seven or eight years before. John Long: Wow, that big of a gap. Larry Alexander: It was. John Long: Man. Cobie Rutherford: Wow. John Long: That is insane. So how long was it before he called you back? Larry Alexander: Well, Mr. Leonard Turner, I'll never forget him, he was a District Agent for that region and he called me, actually Tuesday morning, and he asked me where was I at? And he said, you supposed to be in Holly Springs. He said, I don't care what the board said, you go to work. John Long: Right. Larry Alexander: But he then realized, I had kind of went on a wild goose chase. He said, I tell you what, you just go back Monday. And he said, you start the work then and if the board says they're not going to pay, I'll pay you the $25 a month. So he kind of made a- John Long: It was going to come from somewhere. Larry Alexander: Yeah, it was going to come from somewhere. That's what he was saying, yeah. Cobie Rutherford: Wow. That's pretty cool. So from the office in Marshall County, then kind of what path did you take to get here to the state 4-H office? Larry Alexander: Well, it's kind of funny how my career track's landed. When I went to Marshall County, really didn't know anybody in that area. But then after I started doing some 4-H programming, the trend back then was you get into the Extension program at an entry level through 4-H. Then everybody would say, oh, you want to become a Home Economist or become an Ag Agent. Well, I had an opportunity probably five years into my 4-H Youth Agent position to take on a County Ag position in Benton County, which was the next county over. But something about the 4-H youth development work just gave me a lot of joy in helping young people. And I decided back then, that's where I wanted to make my career was in youth development. John Long: Wow. Larry Alexander: And so I turned that position down and stayed in Marshall County for another, for about 11 years. And a gentleman here at the state 4-H office by the name of Mr. Holly Ford was retiring and they were going to fill the position and he called me and just said, hey, would you be interested in applying for a position at the state office? And I instantly told him, no, because my wife was from Holly Springs, big family, and I knew it was going to be real hard to move her from Holly Springs to Starkville, Mississippi. But after the interview, seminar and all of that, I really just blew it off because I figured I wouldn't have a chance. Then I got that phone call. John Long: Wow. So did you have children at that time, when y'all made that move? Larry Alexander: We did. John Long: Okay. Larry Alexander: Actually, I had two children. My son was, right then, he was in the third grade and Leanne was like two or three years old. John Long: So she really didn't have a- Larry Alexander: No, not much in Holly Springs. John Long: How do Trey take it when you said, we're going to Starkville. Larry Alexander: Trey had some friends that lived right there in our little community. It was kind of, he was okay with it, but he realized he wouldn't be seeing his closest friends every day. But my biggest chore was getting my wife to say, yes. John Long: I bet. Cobie Rutherford: Yeah. Larry Alexander: It put a little strain on the marriage there. But you know, her mother really talked to her and told her that, you know, being the baby girl of that family, of nine, the only way for her to really grow was to get away from her brothers and sisters for a little while. John Long: Right. Larry Alexander: And that kind of resonated with her, but it took about two years or so to really make her realize that it was a good move for her, personally. John Long: Right, right, right, right. That's always tough leaving family. Larry Alexander: It is, it is. John Long: For sure. Especially one that's a large one. Cobie Rutherford: That's for sure. Larry Alexander: Kind of uprooting and going to somewhere new. That's always tough. Cobie Rutherford: That is so true. Larry Alexander: For sure. John Long: Would you, I had to ask this because I forgot to earlier, but do you remember your very first day at Marshall County? Like official, like I went to the office and actually made some phone calls? Larry Alexander: John, I really can say that I do because the secretary that was there, Ms. Nilah Moore, I won't ever forget her. When I came in that that day, actually to work, not the first day I went and had to come back. John Long: Right. Larry Alexander: But the first day I went into work, she brought two messages to me and said here, this is for you, deal with it. And it was just- John Long: It was a disgruntled parent. Larry Alexander: That's right. But no, it was a teacher who had called, somehow they got the word or it was put in newspaper that a person was starting in the 4-H position in the county. John Long: Oh. Larry Alexander: And it was actually a lady who had been a volunteer in Marshall County and she wanted to start a club in the school there. John Long: Wow. Larry Alexander: So it was a good experience then, for that first call and to actually talk to somebody and then how to advise them because I didn't know much. John Long: Right. Larry Alexander: We hadn't even had orientation. But after about, I guess it was about four to six months on the job, we had orientation one. John Long: Which was here? Larry Alexander: Which was here on campus. Came back for a week, week long. John Long: Wow. Larry Alexander: And they gave you a lot of the, one-two-three's and A-B-C's of 4-H, which was really, really good training. And then you went back to your county and worked a few months and they brought you back for an orientation two. John Long: Oh. Larry Alexander: And it was about three and a half days. John Long: So what was the part two? I can imagine part one was really ground level 4-H. Larry Alexander: So the first part was really dealing with the paperwork that you had to do with the Extension Service. John Long: Okay. Larry Alexander: Like our monthly report. John Long: Right. Larry Alexander: So when they're due. What the pecking order was as far as a protocol. But then the orientation two really got more into the subject matter of youth development in 4-H. John Long: Oh, okay. Larry Alexander: So about the clubs and different types of delivery modes and all of that. But they really had a great way of introducing new people to Extension positions back then. I think that's, as an old head now, I think that's one of the things that we could learn something from, because right now we're hiring people and we're just putting them in there to do a job and we really haven't given them all the tools that they really need. John Long: Right. Larry Alexander: So if I could encourage our administration now to to look at that, that would be one thing I would encourage that would be beneficial to a lot of people. John Long: Right. Larry Alexander: Especially in 4-H. John Long: Do you remember how big your class was? Larry Alexander: Yeah, as a matter of fact, I can just about mention the ones that were in there, but we had about 10 to 11 people. John Long: Okay, okay. Larry Alexander: It was not huge and they gave us a lot of personal instructions because we were not that large. But out of the group that started with me, probably three or four did not stay in Extension. John Long: Oh really? Larry Alexander: Yeah. They left to go do something else. John Long: They didn't say long at all? Or they just didn't- Larry Alexander: No, they didn't make it to orientation two. John Long: Really, wow. Larry Alexander: Some of it, as a matter of fact, [Sierra Brantley 00:16:27] is one young lady that I remember, she went into education, to start teaching school. So some people discovered early on that 4-H wasn't really for them. John Long: For them. Yeah. Larry Alexander: It required a lot of time and effort. Cobie Rutherford: Well, I think today, looking at how busy our agents are and looking at how many different clubs and stuff to balance, it would be pretty daunting for a young person to take on that responsibility. John Long: Right. Cobie Rutherford: You'd have to almost share that passion for youth development that Mr. Larry mentioned earlier- John Long: Right, absolutely. Cobie Rutherford: ... to do a good job at it. John Long: Of course it's easier now, you mentioned getting your master's degree. You actually had to travel to Starkville, didn't you? For- Larry Alexander: That is exactly right. John Long: Or Mississippi State, I'm sorry. Larry Alexander: That's right. You could take, I think they allowed professional staff then, six hours. Three could be during the day, three hour class. And then three after five. And so they had the Ag Information Science Department kind of set up where they made it really easy, but we were two and a half hours that we had to drive, mostly on Monday nights. John Long: Wow. Larry Alexander: From six to nine. John Long: Then turn around and go back. Larry Alexander: That's right. That's exactly right. John Long: Then get up and go to work. Larry Alexander: That's exactly right. Cobie Rutherford: Yeah. Larry Alexander: And back in those days, a lot of the people that were managing the offices, they expected, they didn't care whether you worked on the weekend or you had something else, they wanted you to be there that morning. John Long: Right. Larry Alexander: If you left later, they understood that. John Long: Right, right. Larry Alexander: But a little different values and all back then. John Long: Boy, that makes you appreciate technology a little bit more. Larry Alexander: It does. It really does. John Long: For sure. That's right. Yep. Cobie Rutherford: It would've probably been nice though, to not have been constantly dialed into your email and constantly checking email emails and texts and all that stuff. John Long: I don't know what we would do if we didn't have email. Just think, I guess you sit there and open mail or twiddle your thumbs until something, till the phone rang, I guess. I don't know. Larry Alexander: You know John, it's funny you mention opening mail because everything we got, back to my county days, it came in hard copy stuff. John Long: Right. Larry Alexander: And you would spend, literally, when you had something going on like you had county contests or whatever, you'd have tons of mail coming in that you had to take time to just open and look at every piece. John Long: Make sure it was all there. Larry Alexander: That's correct. John Long: Wow. Cobie Rutherford: Read it from top to bottom and- John Long: My how times have changed. Cobie Rutherford: Probably less things were missed back then. John Long: That's true. Cobie Rutherford: Because there was probably a system that you had to sign off on to open the letters and who opened them and all that stuff. Larry Alexander: You're right on target. Cobie Rutherford: Wow, goodness. Larry Alexander: Technology has, as you all know, it has its ups and downs. It's very easy for someone to say, well I didn't get that email or I missed it. But usually when that hard copy comes in, either a secretary or somebody was going to open that piece of mail and let you know what was going on. John Long: Make you a little more conscientious of- Larry Alexander: It does. John Long: ... what you're sending out, I guess. Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, that's true. John Long: That's awesome. Well, go ahead, Cobie, I'm sorry. Cobie Rutherford: Oh, I was just thinking about, somebody told me one time about writing a letter that it was always a good practice to write the letter before you go to bed and leave it on your counter to decide whether or not you wanted to mail it out the next morning. A lot of times I think people are fast behind their emails and just type something hastily and click send. I shouldn't have said that. Larry Alexander: I've had a few instances like that. John Long: Texts too. You better watch your texts. And predictive text is even worse. Cobie Rutherford: Oh, I know. John Long: You better make sure you're checking that. Larry Alexander: That's right. John Long: So I think that right now we're just going to stop right here and we're going to make this a two part series, I think. We've spent basically this first half talking about Mr. Larry's first part of his career. We're going to talk about the second stage of his career in part two. So y'all join us on 4-H-4-U-2. And if you want more information on the 4-H in your area, go to extension.msstate.edu and click on the 4-H tab at the top of the page. And with that, I'm John Long. Cobie Rutherford: And I'm Cobie Rutherford. John Long: And we'll see you next time. Announcer: Thanks for joining us for 4-H-4-U-2. For more information, please visit extension.msstate.edu and be sure to subscribe to our podcast. 4-H-4-U-2 is produced by the Mississippi State University Extension Service, Office of Agricultural Communications.  

Here we are, just a few weeks before Christmas and all through the Throttled studio absolutely nothing is happening.  So Larry and Kevin decide to tell you guys what we would put on our own Christmas lists.  We will try to get Chris’ list next week. New Throttled Crew Member: Ralph joins the Throttled Crew! News: British sales numbers. Female ridership is up!! Jarvish launches X and X-AR Smart Helmets CRP supporting Energica How about a 3D-printed bike. Moto Guzzi V85 TT prices at $12,000 Special Thanks: A big thank you to Ralph, Paul,  Roger, Steven, Lloyd, Scott, Chad, Mathew, Dan, TC, Jorge, Randy, Shaun, James, Tyler, Tom, Paul, Jeff and Chuck.  Thank you all for becoming supporters of the show. If you would like to help bring new features to the show, go to our website and click the Patreon logo to join the Throttled Crew.  With your help we can grow and be able to provide more content for our wonderful listeners. Follow us on: Twitter: @ThrottledShow Instagram: ThrottledShow Facebook: Throttled Podcast Listen Live: You can tune in and listen to Larry and Kevin try and make this podcast each and every week.  Simply go to http://www.mixlr.com/throttled.  From there you can interact with us as we record.  So far it has been a ton of fun!  Approximately 30 minutes before we go live we make an announcement on Twitter and Facebook, so make sure you are following us. Remember, find us in ITunes and give us a rating. Send your feedback to feedback@throttledpodcast.com. Ride safe everybody!!! Visit our Sponsors: Please visit our sponsors!  Let them know that youheard about them from Throttled! Best Rest Products

A doctor’s perspective on how love can affect decision making. Read the related article "Love in the Time of Cancer" by Lawrence Einhorn on JCO.org.   The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care, and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experiences, and conclusions. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as a ASCO endorsement. Cancer Stories, the Art of Oncology podcast present Alina Cho reading the essay "Love in the Time of Cancer" by Lawrence Einhorn, published October 20, 2017. "As a clinical oncologist for over 40 years, I have often wondered about the factors that drive patients to battle seemingly insurmountable odds with hope and determination. After all these years, I turn to love in all its many forms as a compelling force helping our patients combat the uncertainties associated with a cancer diagnosis. Love cannot conquer all. That we know only too well. But it can provide comfort in troubling and unpredictable times. And propel our patients ever forward against a terrible disease they face. The Maudlin sentimentality of some works of fiction pales in comparison with the courage and resilience that characterize our patients. As I move toward the end of my career, I more fully realize that it is love that lies behind the resilience of so many of our patients. Much like Nobel laureate Gabriel Garcia Marquez described in his novel, Love In The Time Of Cholera, in which he demonstrated the power of devotion and enduring love during difficult times over a lifetime of his protagonist. Illness as Metaphor was a concept espoused in a series of essays by Susan Sontag. A paragraph from her work is very moving to me. Illness is the night side of life. A more onerous citizenship. Everyone who is born holds dual citizenship in the kingdom of the well and the kingdom of the sick. Although we prefer to use only the good passport, sooner or later each of us is obliged, at least for a spell, to identify ourselves as citizens of that other place. It is difficult to navigate that night journey as a single passenger. Love, in its many manifestations, helps provide solace and a sense of peace. Not just for patients, but also family members. We bear daily witness as oncologists to the power of love in the time of cancer. WG was 23 years old when he was diagnosed with metastatic testis cancer. After complaining of pain in his left testis, his wife insisted he seek medical care. But by the time of the diagnosis, his disease had spread to the retroperitoneal nodes. He was treated with bleomycin, etoposide, and cisplatin. And achieved a serological complete remission. A post chemotherapy retroperitoneal lymph node dissection revealed teratoma. His tolerance of chemotherapy and surgery was aided by the constant presence of his wife, who appeared far more concerned than WG. Unfortunately, seven years later, he had an asymptomatic late relapse manifested initially by an elevation of his serum alpha-fetoprotein level. During the ensuing seven years, he endured frequent attempts at surgical extirpation with each operation causing more physical and emotional distress. Several chemotherapy regimens produced temporary reductions in his alpha-fetoprotein level. His wife was always there for him in a very close and loving relationship. Finally, he reached a point where I had to tell him that further treatment would produce far more harm than benefit. WG was never enthusiastic about undergoing increasingly toxic treatments at the best of times. However, after the discussion regarding futile and harmful treatment, he asked about any type of therapy no matter the adverse effects. His rationale was that even if it could provide one more day to be with his wife he was willing to endure further toxicity. Sadly, we had truly exhausted all options. Shortly thereafter, he died at home with his wife as his constant comfort at his bedside. ES was 16 years old when he was diagnosed with metastatic testicular cancer. He was treated with bleomycin, etoposide, and cisplatin on a pediatric oncology protocol. And achieved a brief partial remission followed by a rapid progression. He was then referred to Indiana University for salvage chemotherapy. He was a candidate for high dose chemotherapy with peripheral blood stem cell transplantation. His probability for cure was at best 20%. And in my opinion, this was his only curative option. His college educated parents accompanied him for his initial outpatient appointment, and decided to take him to Mexico for alternative therapy. Thereby eliminating any chance for a cure. His parents loved ES just as deeply as WG loved his wife. We oncologists try to provide wise counsel and comfort on the basis of data, information, and evidence based medicine. Ultimate decisions cannot be mandated however. And even the best evidence for or against a particular treatment may not stand up to the power of love in its many varied expressions. LP was 32 years old when she was diagnosed with stage 3B T4 N0 adenocarcinoma of the lung. She was a never smoker, and her disease presumably was the result of mantle radiotherapy she received at age 10 years for childhood Hodgkin's disease. She sustained injury to her left phrenic nerve resulting in an elevated hemi-diaphragm as a post operative complication of her staging laparotomy. Her subsequent lung cancer was in the opposite right lung. She was treated at the time of diagnosis with cisplatin and gemcitabine with stable disease. Upon progression, she received docetaxel as a second line chemotherapy. She was subsequently referred to Indiana University, and evaluated by our thoracic surgeon. He described a resection that would be high risk and low yield. She was informed that her complicated condition of stage 3B lung cancer coupled with a paralyzed left phrenic nerve with elevated and hemi-diaphragm meant she was at significant risk of becoming ventilator dependent. And that there was a real probability of post-operative mortality. She looked him in the eye, and stated that she had two young children. And if there was any chance for meaningful survival, she was willing to take the risk. As predicted, she required ventilator support for two weeks. But fully recovered. Two years later, during a routine office visit, she had tears in her eyes, and I had a lump in my throat, as she declared she never thought she would be alive to celebrate this day as both of her children had now graduated from kindergarten. She is still alive 15 years later, and still finds joy in family milestones with her husband and children. Over this time, she has undergone a craniotomy for resection of metastatic lung cancer as well as the completion pneumonectomy. She has not responded to any subsequent systemic therapies. Last year, she underwent laparoscopic nephrectomy for simultaneous renal cell carcinoma with a focus of metastatic adenocarcinoma of the lungs. Her love of life and family had provided her the grace and courage to continue the fight. Tragically, as I write these words, there are no further systemic or surgical options. And she was recently enrolled in hospice 15 years after the diagnosis of inoperable stage 3B lung cancer. There have been dramatic changes in the science and practice of medicine. And the chaos of a typical clinical day often detracts from the traditional doctor patient relationship. Despite the chaos, we still learn to be humble and are continually inspired by our patients. We can mentor our students, residents, and fellows about medical facts. But the ability to convey empathy and compassion is just as vital as the knowledge of complicated pathways. Our patients deserve our knowledge and experience. But this only goes so far without love to guide them in their decision making. To foster and understand the factors that keep our patients living in the face of terminal disease, we need to endeavor to have a better understanding of love in the time of cancer." I'm Lidia Shapiro, editorial consultant for JPO's Art of Oncolgy. And the host of this podcast. With me today, is Dr. Larry Einhorn. Past ASCO president, professor of medicine at Indiana University, and one of the giants in the world of cancer medicine. Dr. Einhorn is the author "Love in the Time of Cancer." Larry, welcome to our program. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Great to have you. Before we get started talking about your beautiful essay, let me ask you a more general question. I usually ask our writers to tell us what they're currently reading. What would I find on your night table? Well, quite a few different things. I've taken to several different authors that I like. One of them is Tom Perrotta, whose newest book just came out, Mrs. Fletcher, that I just downloaded. And I'm trying to think. What else I've read recently? Something that is very strange is a book on what's called counter-factual. It's called What If? Talks about various episodes that happen in the world's history, and what would happen if something different happened. And this is probably very applicable with the quote unquote fake news thing that's going on with alternative facts. So it's kind of very interesting looking at these type of things. But most of what I read is fiction. And I like science fiction. And I like well-written detective and mystery stories. Sounds terrific. Sounds like you're a well-rounded reader. Yeah, and I get the last book that I finished was All the Light That You Cannot See. And I'm trying to remember who the author is, and I can't remember because it's such a beautifully written book. Yeah, it's Doerr. And it's a beautiful book. I enjoyed that one as well. And do you read about illness as well? You based this story on Gabriel Garcia Marquez's beautiful story Love In The Time of Cholera. It sounds like you read about illness. And you have a very broad taste in fiction and in the literature. Well, I like well written literature. And I rarely read about medical things. But Gabriel Garcia Marquez has such a beautiful way with language. Not just the magical realism that he does, but just language as a whole. It just is like listening to a symphony reading his literature. And I had read Love In The Time Of Cholera a long time ago. I don't even remember the year that it came out. And he's just such an amazing author. Tell us a little bit about how you went from Love in the Time of Cholera to thinking about "Love in the Time of Cancer." Was there a clinical scenario that moved you deeply? Or is this sort of what we're reading here is this the culmination of four years of oncology and your distilled wisdom? Well, I think that the idea in some of the vignettes I had in Love in the Time of Cholera-- "Love in the Time of Cancer-- sorry, is love is such a powerful force. And it drives so many of our emotions, and directs us into things that we do and do not do. Some foolish and some wise. And I actually was struck most by my young testicular cancer patient who was educated, his parents were educated. And despite lengthy conversations with them, they opted not to pursue what could potentially be a curative therapy. And I had no question in my mind about the love that their parents had for their son. Just as I had no question in my mind with the other testicular cancer patient that I highlighted who somewhat semi reluctantly went through treatment, after treatment, after treatment with more and more toxicity. And when finally it was time to say that there was no more treatment that could be beneficial for him, he looked at me and I practically had tears in my eyes as he said, if you can just do something that would let me spend one more day with my wife, I would take any type of toxicity. And that type of love is just amazing after all the things that he's been through. It's like going through this whole epidemic of cholera in Love in the Time of Cholera. And this whole time series of the two protagonists in Gabriel Marquez's very beautiful novel. What I'm hearing you say, and what I took away from the essay, is that we need to respect those bonds of love even if they drive people to make decisions that we may not agree with. Is that correct? Absolutely. Absolutely. We provide information and knowledge. But this is ultimately it's not-- this whole TV series Father Knows Best, it's not a doctor knows best. These are shared very difficult conversations and decisions. And they're shared with the patient and the family. And any of us know who takes care of patients that we take care of families not just patients. You know, leaders and listeners may be curious to learn more about the pragmatic elements behind your career taking care of patients. So when it comes to these very poignant conversations and advice, how did you earn this wisdom? Did it come to you in stages? Can tell it's a little of that? Well, there really is no substitute for experience. And I think all of us are uncomfortable with these conversations when we're house staff, and fellows, and junior faculty members. And you sort of find your own comfort level. And I think what I've come to learn because I deal with two very different diseases, I deal with young men with testicular cancer where the goal and the achievable goal is cure. And I also deal with lung cancer where most of our metastatic lung cancer patients as you know, are going to live longer and live more comfortably. But there are very few five year survivors with lung cancer. And you sort of learn along the trajectory of an illness that for most people hope is better than despair. And to offer something meaningful rather than to offer something that is just injecting something into their veins so that you can get to the next patient in the office is what you try to do. You develop humility. You develop empathy. You develop compassion. And I don't think that these are innate traits in any of us. I think we learn this through our experience with patients. And it's an ennobling profession. Medicine is a great profession. And I think oncologists have a very unique relationship with their patients. Arguably very different than any other profession. And I think you also realize that we all have pain and suffering. We all don't have cancer. But we all need help in going through these difficult phases of our life. And pain and suffering is part of the human condition. It's part of all major religions. And what you try to do is help steer patients along the right way to make a right decision, to be armed with facts, and to treat them with respect, and humility, and compassion as I mentioned. The long answer to a short question. And while your on a roll here, let me ask you, how do you actually do this with your trainees? With your fellows? Sure. So I would have to admit that it's becoming more difficult with the time constraints that all of us face. But when I have medical students, residents, and fellows in my clinic, which I always do, they will go in and do the initial history and physical examination. And I try as best as possible to have them come with me when we're having a meaningful conversation. If it's someone who is just coming in for annual follow up with testis cancer, obviously, that's not necessary. But any time that we see a new patient and go over what the goals of therapy are going to be, or any time that we have someone who has had further progressive disease, and we have to look at what the next step if any steps should be, we try to have these young physicians, really not that any of us do it perfectly, but just have a concept of how we discuss things. And at the end of the conversation, after I'm outside the patient's room, I ask them if they have any questions about that conversation. And any suggestion about things that could have been said or should not have been said. Larry, where and how did you find support or perhaps is it in love that you find the strength to renew yourself and your reservoir of compassion? Well, I've been married for 52 years. I have to get my own mathematics over here. And have I been very fortunate with my wife, Claudette. And she is a source of strength for myself. And I always tell her that when I come home on a Monday or Tuesday, that's my testicular cancer clinics, and you really feel energized. And when you're seeing lung cancer patients all day Wednesday, again, they're really amazing advances being made in lung cancer in the last several years, but it's tell a very different type of clinic. And you try not to bring your work home every day. But it's nice to have family discussions and someone who's not in the medical field. Many physicians have their spouses who are also physicians or oncologists. And it's probably a different type of dinner table conversation. Well, maybe the take home from this interview is that physicians should look for non physician spouses as life partners. Who are understanding. Well, my wife said something that's very true when we have some of these conversations. She says that's a serious condition like cancer can bring out the best or the worst in a relationship. And we've seen both. We've seen couples who are divorced, and the husband or wife will go back to their spouse in their last couple of weeks or last couple of months of life to provide them comfort. And we also see patients who are in a relationship with someone, and the spouse can't bear what the person is going through. The idea that I take you in illness and health and through good times and bad times, and has led to separation and divorce sometimes. Yes. This is a beautiful meditation. Love in its many manifestations and how it helps to provide solace and peace. And also this conversation I think helps us understand that we too need love and sources of comfort and peace. Perhaps this is part of a larger conversation on resilience. And how patients and families overcome the challenge of a serious life threatening or life altering illness. And how we, as their clinicians and professional caregivers, respond to that suffering. So Larry, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Well, thank you. That was Dr. Larry Einhorn sharing his reflections on his 40 year career in oncology and his essay, "Love in the Time of Cancer." Join me next time for another conversation about the art of ontology. I'm Lidia Shapiro. Editorial consultant for JCO's Art of Oncology, and the host of this podcast. With me today is Dr. David Korones, pediatric oncologist and palliative care specialist from the University of Rochester Medical Center and the author of "Talking to Children with Cancer, Sometimes Less is More," published in the October 1st issue of JCO. David, welcome to our program. Thank you. It's good to be here. I also want to thank you for your many contributions to Art of Oncology as a contributing writer and reviewer. You've really brought a very important perspective to our board and to our readers. Well, thanks. You're very welcome. In your most recent piece, David, you deal with what I think is one of the most difficult aspects of communication in oncology. And you've structured this essay almost in two parts. There's a story, the story of Kenzie. And then there's your reflection that is more scholarly where you really present a perspective on how to negotiate just how much information needs to be shared with an adolescent and her family who tell you that they really don't want to know. Can you start by sharing with our listeners a little bit about your story and how writing about it perhaps helped you process the very complex situation and feelings this situation triggered for you? Well, sure. I think you're right. I don't think there's anything more daunting than having to communicate such horrible news to a child or to a teenager. And I also think that there was this inherent tension in this when a child tells you that they don't want to know. Because all our teaching is about being honest-- full disclosure. So we have this force of what the standard is. And then the other side of it is that child who doesn't want to know, who doesn't want to go by our standard. And it just creates a lot of tension in a situation that is already heartbreaking. Yes, and you wrote it so beautifully. And I'd like to read for our listeners just a little bit of your essay. You wrote, "I know the evidence supports the practice of telling the truth. And I can recite the benefits of doing so. But let me tell you that when it comes to sitting down with a child, looking her in the eye, and telling her she's dying, it is impossibly hard. All that knowledge, accumulated wisdom, and experience flies out the window, and is quickly replaced by paralyzing heartbreak." I was really stunned by that. It's just so beautifully stated. Tell us a little bit about that emotional aspect of the experience, and how you dealt with this paralyzing heartbreak. And this is but one story. I feel like this happens almost every time where you read the books, you read the articles, it's clear what you're supposed to do, but then reality sets in. And when you're sitting in front of a child and family, it just doesn't get any easier. And on a personal level, it's just so utterly heartbreaking. And sometimes it is paralyzing. And I hope in writing about it-- actually that helped free me of some of my paralysis. But I hoped also in writing about it that I can let other people out there know that they're not alone. Yes. In fact, I think that that's one of the very useful aspects of sharing our stories. And it helps others connect. It helps us connect with our community of oncologists. And also by writing, I think that in many ways you helped us imagine and explore the point of view of Kenzie and her parents, which is something that we often don't have time to do when we're pressured to make decisions in the moment when we're in the clinic or the hospital setting. So maybe it would be helpful to have you just tell us a little bit about Kenzie. Who was Kenzie? And tell us about her and her family. Yeah, I think I wrote about her because, as I mentioned, she's not the only one that I had struggled with-- that we all struggle with. But there was just something about this girl. And I think we probably all experience this with some of our patients. I wrote that she is beautifully normal. And she just could be any of our children. And so that takes it from the professional realm to the personal. Fingers flying on her cell phone dressed like any other American teenaged girl would be dressed. And that just added a layer of heartbreak to it. She was remarkable also in that she was just comfortable in her own skin. She's a girl who could live very comfortably in the present, and wasn't weighed down by what the future held. She's a girl who could just savor the normalcy that her days at high school brought to her. She is a girl who was loved by friends and family. Yes. And she's a girl who was so direct with you and your team. You talk about the fact that she was very quick to tell you what she wanted to know and what she didn't want to know. Now, you met her on a Valentine's Day in the ER. Tell us a little bit about that first meeting. Yeah, well, I mean, I think I wrote about this too, kind of an extra element of heartbreak. I mean, it's on Valentine's Day of all days. And it was this beautiful soft snow falling. And here I am out buying a Valentine's card for my wife when this horrible event unfolds. And I think what really struck me when I went to the emergency room, is seeing this-- again, this beautifully normal girl who just looked like any other American teenaged girl. And I was kind of weighed down by what I knew lay ahead for her, and the stark contrast between how normal her life had been up until that moment, and how all of that was going to shattered. And just the weight of that uneven distribution of knowledge, me knowing what lay ahead, and her and her family not just added to the heartbreak. That's such an important aspect of the delivery of bad news just when we, as the oncologist, we know it. We're holding it. And we know things that the patient and her family don't know. And know just how this is going to affect them. And then finding a way perhaps of getting past that to connect in a helpful way. You speak a lot about the fact that this relationship worked because it was a lot of trust. And I imagine that's what you felt at the beginning as well. That this was your one and only opportunity really to connect, and start building that trust that would guide you and the family. And keep you going as events unfolded, and as you knew predictably that things would get worse and worse. Yeah. I think I also knew that I have to earn that trust, that that trust doesn't come from walking in the room with whatever credentials I might have-- that one has to develop, and earn it, and work for it And it all starts by listening. And part of that listening was honoring what she wanted to know and didn't want to know, and what her parents felt would work best for her. Yes. You talk and you write about saying that it's OK for us to sometimes be unsure and to feel unsettled. I wonder if you could tell our listeners a little bit about how you and your team negotiated this over time. It seems that you sort of went back and forth, and tried over and over to assess just how much they needed and wanted to know. Tell us a little how that actually worked out. Yeah, you would think-- I write that Kenzie clearly didn't want to know. And we think, well, what's the big deal? We explored that. She doesn't want to know what's going to happen to her. And case closed. But it just wasn't that simple. For one thing, real time, when you're in the thick of it, it's always so weightier, and so much less clear than it is in hindsight. And for another, I think that it was so unusual for us to have this mature teenager where we knew what the path was. And yet, she didn't want to know what that path was herself. Or at least she didn't want it in her face. And I think because it was so far from what we're used to, we wanted to make absolutely sure we weren't missing something. One thing I struggled with is am I just taking what she says at face value? Not exploring enough so that I can avoid having those awful conversations? I think I might have mentioned this. Am I just eager to jump at a pass on a hard conversation, or is this truly what she wanted? I think in the end, I think it takes a lot of back and forth with her, her parents, and with our team to make sure we were on the right path. So in our final 30 seconds, can you tell a little bit or speak a little bit about how writing about this helped you perhaps to clarify you thoughts or process this very complex situation. Absolutely. It helped tremendously. And I think just on a raw emotional level it provided a release. On another level, it just helped me think about this this more methodically, systematically, not to get rid of the emotion, but to have rational thought as part of the process. And it was just a nice way to honor a remarkable young girl. Thank you. That was David Korones talking about his most recent essay, "Talking to Children With Cancer, Sometimes Less is More." Join me next time for a conversation about the art of oncology.