Podcast appearances and mentions of curt bench

On a very special episode of Mormon Book Reviews, I am very excited to welcome on Chris Bench of Benchmark Books. Many people first heard of Curt Bench and his bookstore from watching "Murder Among the Mormons" on Netflix which dealt with the Mark Hofmann forgeries and murders. This past year Curt passed away. In our conversation we talk about the legacy of his father. This is one of the first times that Chris discusses Curt and the history of the bookstore on camera. Get to know Chris as he talks about his background, going on a mission, the kind of man his father was, Curt employing a well known polygamist Anne Wilde, and the future of the bookstore.PayPalPatreonLink to Benchmark books

On the latest episode of Mormon Book Reviews Steven Pynakker interviews one of the most important scholars of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe. In this fascinating conversation Brent details that while working for Church security he was working on scholarly endeavors that he hoped would help contribute to apologitic defenses of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All was going well until he encountered a particular book in the Church History library. When it was discovered that he was researching this book, it was reported to Mark E. Peterson. Shortlty thereafter Brent was fired from his job. This lead him down a path that would eventually lead to his excommunication from the Church. In this engaging conversation we discuss his early interactions with Jerald and Sandra Tanner, where in a newsletter they described Brent as the next Hugh Nibley! The conversation includes his fathers invovement in selecting Temple sites, his research history of the Book of Mormon, discoverying a photograph that was thought to be Charles Anthon but was misidentified, indentifying the unkown third scribe of the Book of Mormon, and his work on the Caracters Document. In the conclusion we discuss the legacy of Curt Bench and Brent's involvement in the docuseries "Murder Among the Mormons". I want to thank Brent for coming on and hopefully it lead to more future conversations!Patreon

On the latest episode of Mormon Book Reviews Steven Pynakker has a delightful conversation with Anne Wilde. Anne is a widowed plural wife of Mormon Fundamentalist writer Ogden Kraut, one of the most important and influential polygamists of the 20th century. In the interview we discuss her role during the 2002 Salt Lake Winter Olympics of informing the world press about the modern practice of plural marriage. We also discuss the friendship that they had with Jerald and Sandra Tanner. Anne helped edit 65 of Ogden's books and worked at Benchmark Books. She talks about the legacy of Curt Bench and how decent of a man he was. We also discuss her book "Voices in Harmony: Contemporary Women Celebrate Plural Marriage" as well as "In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith by Todd Compton. Many people outside Mormon Fundamentalism don't realize the important role Ogden played in developing and defending Fundamentalist doctrine. I want to thank Anne for coming on to discuss his legacy and her's as well.PatreonVoices in HarmonySacred Loneliness

Curt Bench was one of the most beloved members of the Mormon history community.  As we look back at those we've lost in 2021, I wanted to share some highlights from my 2017 interview with Curt as we discussed the Mark Hofmann bombings.  Curt passed away on August 17, 2021. Curt:  Well that night I […] The post Remembering Curt Bench (Part 3 of 5) appeared first on Gospel Tangents.

In this episode, Latter-day Faith host Dan Wotherspoon reflects on the life of his wonderful friend, mentor, sounding board, and wise soul Curt Bench who passed away recently. In sharing about Curt and the pivotal role he played in Dan's life, his hope is that we each will take time to consider the people who have made a genuine difference in our lives, especially those who found joy in who we are and have helped us come to understand ourselves more deeply and perhaps point us toward our genuine spiritual gifts. Dan also reflects on the importance of finding more of those kinds of people in our lives. Sometimes they will fall into our orbit naturally, but we also shouldn't hesitate to actively try to develop friendships that might be transformative for us. In the final section of this episode, Dan reads an essay of Curt's that is found in the 2021 book, Why I Stay, volume 2 (Signature Books). In it you will get to meet Curt in his own words as he describes his journey within Mormonism and how he had found fulfillment there even amidst everything that is less than ideal. A part of that journey was his finding examples of others who inspired him in much the same was that Curt inspired Dan. This is a very personal episode. Thank you for allowing this indulgence.

Curt Bench, a book seller who had an impressive collection of connected to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has passed away. KSL's Doug Wright joins Boyd to remember Bench and discuss his influence in the community. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Salamander Letter wasn’t the only forgery caught by Brent.  He will describe a few other forgeries of Mark that he caught, including one with Abraham Lincoln’s signature.  Mark wasn’t happy about being caught! Brent:  There was another time that I was in Deseret Book Rare Books with Curt Bench. Curt showed me this rare […] The post Catching More Hofmann Fakes (Part 9 of 13) appeared first on Gospel Tangents.

Interviewed by Jimmy Rex, Sunstone gathers some of the people who appeared on the Netflix documentary “Murder Among the Mormons” to talk about what it was like to be there during the time of Mark Hofmann’s forgeries and bombings. Panelists include Brent Ashworth, Curt Bench, Brent Metcalfe, and Sandra Tanner.

Interviewed by Jimmy Rex, Sunstone gathers some of the people who appeared on the Netflix documentary “Murder Among the Mormons” to talk about what it was like to be there during the time of Mark Hofmann’s forgeries and bombings. Panelists include Brent Ashworth, Curt Bench, Brent Metcalfe, and Sandra Tanner.

Interviewed by Jimmy Rex, Sunstone gathers some of the people who appeared on the Netflix documentary “Murder Among the Mormons” to talk about what it was like to be there during the time of Mark Hofmann’s forgeries and bombings. Panelists include Brent Ashworth, Curt Bench, Brent Metcalfe, and Sandra Tanner.

Interviewed by Jimmy Rex, Sunstone gathers some of the people who appeared on the Netflix documentary “Murder Among the Mormons” to talk about what it was like to be there during the time of Mark Hofmann’s forgeries and bombings. Panelists include Brent Ashworth, Curt Bench, Brent Metcalfe, and Sandra Tanner.

This week Mormonism and the world (basically) have been captivated by the new Netflix Documentary "Murder Among the Mormons" - which covers the Salt Lake City bombings of 1985, and is currently #2 in the USA on Netflix.  (SPOILER ALERT!!!!) While reactions to the documentary (produced & directed by friends Jared Hess and Tyler Measom) have been universally SUPER positive, many progressive and post-Mormons have expressed a wish that the documentary would have spent more time discussing the role of the Mormon church in: a) creating the environment that gave rise to the bombings, b) attempting to cover up/hide its problematic history, and c) obstruct or hinder the investigation of the bombings. I this epic, 2-part, 6 hour interview with Mormon/Ex-Mormon legend Sandra Tanner, we cover many of the questions/topics/issues that progressive and post-Mormons have been wanting to know about the Mormon church, Mark Hofmann, the bombings, and the investigations, such as: What do we know about Mark Hofmann's childhood and adolescent years? When and how did Mark Hofmann lose his Mormon faith? What are some of the direct and undeniable similarities between Joseph Smith and Mark Hofmann? What can we ascertain about Mark Hofmann's possible motives for forgery? What issues regarding Mormon Church truth claims were being discussed publicly during Mark Hofmann's childhood and adolescence years, and what written materials may have influenced him? What behavior on the part of the Mormon church in the 1960s and 1970s may have served as motivating factors for Hofmann?  Particularly, to what extent did the LDS Church participate in overt deception of its members that could have influenced him to turn on the church? What are Sandra's memories of Hofmann and his close associates like Shannon Flynn, Brent Metcalfe, Curt Bench, Lyn Jacobs, Brent Ashworth, etc.?  Were any of them suspected as accomplices? What do we know about the main Mormon-related Hofmann forgeries, and why were each relevant from a Mormon.history perspective?  How did Hofmann's forgeries intersect with and challenge Mormon church truth claims?  How did they stand to harm the church? What role did the Mormon church play in hiding and/or covering up Hofmann's forgeries? Perhaps most importantly, Sandra recounts the inspiring story of her husband, Jerald Tanner, discovering that Hofmann's Salamander Letter was a forgery a FULL YEAR before the bombings, how she and Jerald fought about his discovery, what Hofmann's reaction was to Jerald's discovery, and how it was received in the larger Mormon studies and news community (spoiler alert: it was largely ignored). Sandra also movingly discusses how she and Jerald were largely ignored and marginalized by the broader Mormon history community, including being denied a display table at Sunstone, and how many Mormon history scholars would take advantage of the Tanner's research without giving them any credit or citations.  She cites as the main reason of this mistreatment her and Jerald's willingness to question Joseph Smith's sincerity - which remains a taboo in the Mormon studies community to this day. Sandra recounts her memories of the bombings and of the investigations. Perhaps most importantly, what responsibility does the Mormon church play in contributing to the environment and led to the bombings? All this, and so much more.  This is a 6 hour interview. Part 1 (4 hours) talks mostly about Sandra's memories during and after the bombings. Part 2 (2 hours) focuses more on Sandra's direct reactions to the documentary Murder Among the Mormons. For your convenience we have created time codes that will let you know which parts of the videos you can jump to (if you want to jump around or refer certain parts to friends). We hope you enjoy!!!!!!!  And a HUGE thanks to Sandra (and Jerald) Tanner for sharing with us her/their historic insight.  For me, this was a true honor.  MORE TO COME!!!! - John Dehlin (March 10, 2021) P.S.  If you value Sandra and her contributions to Mormon history, please support Sandra Tanner and Utah Lighthouse Ministry with your donations!!! ==================== 00:01:32 - Sandra’s impressions of “Murder Among the Mormons” 00:14:39 - How the LDS church was portrayed in the documentary - positive vs. negative 00:21:06 - Could this documentary pose a challenge to some member’s faith? 00:23:16 - Truly’s role in the documentary & lawyers as church “historians” 00:30:20 - Was it smart for it not to be a “hit piece” in the LDS church? 00:42:11 - How the story is being revived 00:51:15 - Could Hofmann had any accomplices’? 00:54:44 - Heroes & villiain of the story 01:00:35 - Culpability of the LDS church & their obstructing of justice 01:04:13 - Sandra’s recommendations for books on this subject 01:10:47 - Legacy of the Hofmann scandal & its impact on Mormonism 01:22:56 - “Lying for the Lord” & how Joseph Smith set a president of dishonesty within the church 01:28:04 - Why people stay in the church after they have lost their faith 01:32:21 - Could there be another event like this that threatens the church? 01:34:35 - Sandra’s predictions for the future of Mormonism 01:39:48 - Upcoming biography on Jerald & Sandra Tanner 01:43:41 - Sandra’s experiences from Mormon Stories Podcast 01:50:07 - Reflections on Jerald Tanner 01:54:21 - Closing remarks 

This week Mormonism and the world (basically) have been captivated by the new Netflix Documentary "Murder Among the Mormons" - which covers the Salt Lake City bombings of 1985, and is currently #2 in the USA on Netflix.  (SPOILER ALERT!!!!) While reactions to the documentary (produced & directed by friends Jared Hess and Tyler Measom) have been universally SUPER positive, many progressive and post-Mormons have expressed a wish that the documentary would have spent more time discussing the role of the Mormon church in: a) creating the environment that gave rise to the bombings, b) attempting to cover up/hide its problematic history, and c) obstruct or hinder the investigation of the bombings. I this epic, 2-part, 6 hour interview with Mormon/Ex-Mormon legend Sandra Tanner, we cover many of the questions/topics/issues that progressive and post-Mormons have been wanting to know about the Mormon church, Mark Hofmann, the bombings, and the investigations, such as: What do we know about Mark Hofmann's childhood and adolescent years? When and how did Mark Hofmann lose his Mormon faith? What are some of the direct and undeniable similarities between Joseph Smith and Mark Hofmann? What can we ascertain about Mark Hofmann's possible motives for forgery? What issues regarding Mormon Church truth claims were being discussed publicly during Mark Hofmann's childhood and adolescence years, and what written materials may have influenced him? What behavior on the part of the Mormon church in the 1960s and 1970s may have served as motivating factors for Hofmann?  Particularly, to what extent did the LDS Church participate in overt deception of its members that could have influenced him to turn on the church? What are Sandra's memories of Hofmann and his close associates like Shannon Flynn, Brent Metcalfe, Curt Bench, Lyn Jacobs, Brent Ashworth, etc.?  Were any of them suspected as accomplices? What do we know about the main Mormon-related Hofmann forgeries, and why were each relevant from a Mormon.history perspective?  How did Hofmann's forgeries intersect with and challenge Mormon church truth claims?  How did they stand to harm the church? What role did the Mormon church play in hiding and/or covering up Hofmann's forgeries? Perhaps most importantly, Sandra recounts the inspiring story of her husband, Jerald Tanner, discovering that Hofmann's Salamander Letter was a forgery a FULL YEAR before the bombings, how she and Jerald fought about his discovery, what Hofmann's reaction was to Jerald's discovery, and how it was received in the larger Mormon studies and news community (spoiler alert: it was largely ignored). Sandra also movingly discusses how she and Jerald were largely ignored and marginalized by the broader Mormon history community, including being denied a display table at Sunstone, and how many Mormon history scholars would take advantage of the Tanner's research without giving them any credit or citations.  She cites as the main reason of this mistreatment her and Jerald's willingness to question Joseph Smith's sincerity - which remains a taboo in the Mormon studies community to this day. Sandra recounts her memories of the bombings and of the investigations. Perhaps most importantly, what responsibility does the Mormon church play in contributing to the environment and led to the bombings? All this, and so much more.  This is a 6 hour interview. Part 1 (4 hours) talks mostly about Sandra's memories during and after the bombings. Part 2 (2 hours) focuses more on Sandra's direct reactions to the documentary Murder Among the Mormons. For your convenience we have created YouTube time codes that will let you know which parts of the videos you can jump to (if you want to jump around or refer certain parts to friends). We hope you enjoy!!!!!!!  And a HUGE thanks to Sandra (and Jerald) Tanner for sharing with us her/their historic insight.  For me, this was a true honor.  MORE TO COME!!!! - John Dehlin (March 10, 2021) P.S.  If you value Sandra and her contributions to Mormon history, please support Sandra Tanner and Utah Lighthouse Ministry with your donations!!! ==================== Part 1 Timecodes: 00:07:13 - Summary of Sandra’s background 00:14:51 - Sandra’s understanding of Mark Hofmann’s early life & beliefs 00:19:39 - Hofmann’s exposure to treasure digging and LDS truth claims 00:32:02 - Parallels between Mark Hofmann and Joseph Smith 00:36:12 - Theories surrounding the Golden Plates & Book of Mormon 00:45:30 - Speculations on Mark Hofmann’s faith crisis 00:48:17 - Sandra discusses Shannon Flynn 00:55:53 - More on Hofmann’s mission, & his research into Mormon history 00:57:03 - Salamander Letter 00:58:50 – Sandra on intentional deception by LDS Church leaders 01:00:58 – Hofmann first comes to Utah Lighthouse Ministry in 1978 to share first known forgery – on the 2nd Anointing 01:06:19 – Mark’s handwriting – juvenile “chicken scratch” 01:07:10 – The beginning of a discussion of Mark Hofmann’s possible motives 01:09:07 – Mark Hofmann’s lack of empathy - callousness with the bombings. 01:12:44 – Mark Hofmann’s ego & his desire to pull off the “ultimate deception” 01:14:23 – Hofmann’s desire to embarrass the church & expose the faults their “power of discernment” 01:18:50 – More comparisons between Joseph Smith and Mark Hofmann – Around their “Ponzi schemes” unraveling into chaos and violence 01:20:56 – Discussion of Anthon transcript - Hofmann’s first major (known) Mormon forgery 01:28:34 – Jerald Tanner first uncovers forgery in 1960s – Oliver Cowdery pamphlet 01:31:21 – Jerald Tanner received pushback on forgery claims - Fawn Brodie and Juanita Brooks state they will continue to use the document 01:35:19 – Discussion of original Anthon transcript 01:39:08 – Hofmann’s Joseph Smith III Succession Forgery 01:45:58 - Hofmann trying to paint Brigham Young in a bad light. 01:52:11 – Brent Ashworth describing Hofmann “fishing” for documents that collectors might want 01:53:01 - Hofmann begins a bidding war over his Joseph Smith III Succession document 01:54:11 - LDS church “front buyers” 01:57:09 – Hofmann’s claim to have the McLellin collection 02:05:19 – Lyn Jacobs & Sandra’s thoughts on his omission from the “Murder Among the Mormons” documentary 02:08:18 – A discussion of frequent questions regarding Hofmann’s sexuality 02:14:09 - Hofmann’s 1825 Letter from Joseph Smith to Josiah Stowell 02:17:42 – What LDS Church leaders knew about Joseph Smith’s use of folk magic and treasure digging 02:21:15 – The Smith family merging of folk magic with Christianity - Hyrum Smith’s use of “magic documents” & Joseph Smith’s use of the “Jupiter Talisman” 02:28:52 – LDS General Authorities consciously sanitizing Mormon church history (Hinckley, Oaks, Turley) 02:31:40 – Church Patriarch Smith showing magical papers at LDS church firesides in the 20th century 02:32:50 – Wilford C. Wood “buying up” valuable LDS Church artifacts 02:36:29 – Smearing critics - tragic story of LDS Church translator, Stan Larson, losing his testimony of Book of Mormon Historicity, and being forced out of LDS Church employment. 02:42:57 – Other LDS Scholars forced out or fired 02:44:40 – Discussion of top LDS Church leaders knowing the problems with the church’s core truth claims, but continuing to mislead members intentionally 02:46:55 – The “rule” that Joseph Smith can’t be known as an intentional deceiver 02:49:56 – Did Mormon General Authority Hugh B. Brown admit that he did not believe in Book of Abraham historicity to Thomas Ferguson? 02:51:46 – Did Mormon General Authority B.H. Roberts loose his faith in Book of Mormon historicity? 02:59:51 – The integrity of Jerald Tanner. 03:05:53 - Martin Harris as one of the three witnesses 03:07:26 - Potential motives and means for deception 03:12:39 - Do LDS General Authorities have the gift of discernment? The Anthon Manuscript and photo of Hofmann with LDS General Authorities 03:16:25 - Questioning authenticity of salamander letter 03:32:13 - “Salamander or Moroni?” pamphlet for Sunstone Symposium 03:46:07 - The unwritten rule of the Mormon history community – “Don’t question Joseph Smith’s sincerity, or face marginalization” 03:52:51 - How Jerald and Sandra Tanner were disrespected by the Mormon history community & treatment of the Tanners by Dialogue and Sunstone (Tanners not allowed to have display table at Sunstone) 03:56:13 – Begrudging acceptance of Tanners after Jerald is vindicated. 04:01:01 – How Sandra’s work affected the relationship with her sister, who was embarrassed by her work 04:03:05 – God was Sandra’s motivation to keep going. 04:07:41 – The McLellin papers & other Hofmann forgeries 04:09:11 – Sandra’s discussion of Richard Turley’s book on Hofmann, Victims, & Mormon church’s obstruction of the murder investigation 04:13:47 – Hofmann’s motives for murder & conviction 04:19:27 - Discussion of first murder 04:23:13 - Brent Ashworth as potential target of Hofmann’s 3rd bomb 04:33:04 - Mark Hofmann’s plan to forge the lost 116 pages of the Book of Mormon

Hey Mormon Stories Listeners! I am planning some super-cool interviews for the newly released "Murder Among the Mormons" documentary (released today on Netflix).  A few SUPER important requests for you all: Please watch it ASAP! It's fantastic! Please share it with all your believing Mormon family members and friends.  If they are concerned about the content, consider letting them know that: Richard Turley (former assistant LDS Church historian and head of LDS Church Public Affairs) participates in the documentary, and The documentary was carefully designed by both Jared and Tyler to be fair/balanced.  In my opinion, the doc is TOTALLY TBM worthy, so please watch it AND tell everyone about it! I am planning several super cool interviews, including an interview with Directors - Jared Hess and Tyler Measom.  So stay tuned for that! Here's where I need your help.  I would REALLY love it if you would share with me: a) your reactions to the doc, and b) any questions you have for Jared and Tyler. This will help me make the most of time with them (which I see as precious).  It will also stand as a cool record of progressive and post-Mormon reactions to the film. Please post your reactions here! If you want to watch additional coverage of the Mark Hofmann bombings on Mormon Stories Podcast, you can check out the following episodes: An interview with Allen D. Roberts and Curt Bench about Mark Hofmann. An interview with Brent Metcalfe - personal friend of Mark Hofmann. An interview with Sandra Tanner - whose husband Jerald determined that Mark Hofmann was a fraud before any of the LDS Church leaders. Thank you in advance for your support!  And a HUGE thanks to Jared and Tyler for making a documentary that we ALL can be proud of as Mormons/Ex-Mormons. More soon!

This week Martin Tanner is joined by Curt Bench from Benchmark Books as they discuss about how Benchmark Books was formed, different rare books and research on Mormon studies, where to find older LDS books and newer studies, how to get into Mormon history, and unique events at Benchmark Books.

I'm really excited to introduce Dorie Olds.  You may know her more famous ex-husband, Mark Hofmann, the famous forger/murderer.  In this first episode we'll talk about how Mark manipulated her in Hofmann's Anthon forgery.  Check out our conversation! https://youtu.be/7ZtvA32uKpQ Dorie: And he brought a book. He brought a Bible and he said to me, "Well look in this Bible." And it's like, "Here, look through this," or "Look through this thing." And I remember thinking, "Well, I'm tired. I'm back home from work. I'm tired. I don't really want to do that." And I kind of put it aside. And, I remember having this funny feeling. Why do you want me to do this? Because it was like he was really insistent. "Will you look through this?" And so I did look through this and there in the pages was a thing that was stuck. Part of me was like, "Wow, there's something in here." And part of me was like, "I have a funny feeling about this. Something's going on that I don't understand," in the process of that. I went to him and said, "There's something stuck in here." And he's like, "Oh, what a surprise! I wonder what that is!" You know? And of course, he'd set that up so that he'd put it in there so I would find it. I would be the provenance. It wouldn't be him. It would be something that could be documented that in a way he had nothing to do with it because he didn't find it. I found it, and he had just handed me this book. So that's the story of how that [came about.] It was the Anthon Transcript and those symbols that were in there. That was glued inside. And then he took them out and he took it from there. And I was the provenance for that. I was his. He was using me to be the provenance of that story. I also asked how Dorie met Mark? Dorie: I was attending Utah State University. I had gone to Dixie College for two years. And then moved up to Logan and was going to do two more years there. And in the apartment complex where I lived, he lived upstairs. So I was on the second level, I think he was on third level. And so that's how I got to know him was he lived in the same apartment complex. GT: Ok, you didn't have any same classes together or anything like that? Dorie: No, I didn't have any classes together. I didn't know this initially, but he had broken up with his [girlfriend.] He had gotten engaged and had broken up right before school started with this woman that he was engaged to and she would come up and they would sit in, I think it was her car, sit in her car and make out and I'd watch them make out. GT: Really? Dorie: So, I don't know. It wasn't anything that was impressed. That was the first thing was, who's that guy and what are they doing? And how ridiculous. And you know, it wasn't any like love at first sight. No! Or to be together. It was none of that. That took time to go to that place. GT: So he broke up with this other woman, and then you started dating? Is there any memorable dates? Check out her answers!  You may also be interested to hear Curt Bench's recollections of Mark Hofmann! Dorie Olds tells how Mark used her to add credibility to Hofmann's Anthon forgery. 042: Hofmann Bombings Effects on Mormon History (Bench) 041: Should LDS Leaders have Detected Hofmann's Fraud? (Bench) 040: Curt Bench's role in Hofmann Bombings Court Case (Bench) 039: Bomb Day 2:  Other Targets? – Oct 16, 1985 (Bench) 038: Bomb Day 1:  2 Killed – October 15, 1985 (Bench) 037: White Salamander Letter & Other Forgeries (Bench) 036: Bombs in Salt Lake: Introduction to Mark Hofmann (interview with Curt Bench)

[paypal-donation] Sandra Tanner is well-known as being a critic of Mormonism.  (Some would even call her an anti-Mormon.)  So why am I, an active Mormon, talking to her?  Because she and her husband Jerald were the first people to question the authenticity of the Salamander Letter, a letter forged by Mark Hofmann that threatened the founding stories of the LDS Church.  Mark Hofmann met Sandra Tanner with a mind to give greater publicity to his forgeries. Sandra describes her first meetings with Mark.  In this first episode, we'll get acquainted with her, and learn how she met Mark Hofmann. https://youtu.be/yiMdtrXfVZQ Sandra:  My husband and I have been critics of Mormonism since 1959 when we got married and started trying to resolve conflicts in our own minds in Mormonism and we started publishing mimeograph[1] stuff if anyone knows what that is. I find young people don't even [know.]  When I say mimeograph is like blank [stare.] Anyways, back in 1959, we started mimeographing off little sheets of paper, pointing out historical discrepancies in Mormonism, which evolved into in [19]64, setting up full time publishing and printing on Mormonism. ... He comes in and hands me a photo of a paper that is supposed to be a copy of the Second Anointing ceremony, temple ceremony.... this was a big deal to have someone to come in and have a photocopy of a document that purported to be from about the 1912 time period from the Salt Lake Temple about the Second Anointing. And it was a one sheet thing and it had a rubber stamp across the side that said Salt Lake Temple, which I assume Mark got made at the stamp company here in Salt Lake. And so here's this document claiming to relate to the Second Anointing thing. And he brings it in to show me. and so this man who, I don't know, he hasn't told me his name. No, he can't tell me his name because he's from a very prominent family. And when his grandpa died, he was helping his mom clean out the attic and they went through his papers and he found this second anointing paper and realized that, wow, this was something he had never heard about before. And so he didn't show it to the family and he has this copy and he wanted to give me a copy, but he couldn't tell me who it was because he was this prominent family and you know, so it's all on the QT, you know, so, so I'm buying this whole thing. And I mean not buying in the sense of paying money. We didn't have it. We had zip money. We never got involved in these documents because we were not in that class of finances. But I realize now he was trying to establish credibility for this piece of paper. And I think by giving me this copy he assumed I would immediately pass it around to people and that would raise the value of it because others were talking about it, knew about it, see? But I didn't because it had no provenance. I don't know who this guy was. I don't know the name of the family. Check out our conversation… Sandra Tanner describes her interactions with Mark Hofmann [1] Mimeograph was a copy technology that has been replaced by copy machines now. Don't forget to check out our interviews with Curt Bench, Shannon Flynn, and George Throckmorton on the Hofmann murders. [paypal-donation]

[paypal-donation] Given all the mounting evidence against Mark Hofmann, why were prosecutors interested in a plea deal?  It seems evidence was pretty strong to convict him of a 1st Degree murder.  George Throckmorton tells of conversations between prosecutors and Hofmann's lawyers.  Why was the Hofmann sentence so light? https://youtu.be/-C3s9c-P1Cc GT:  I know he's gotten a big stiff sentence anyway, even with second degree murder. Well, why did we plea bargain to second degree murder on this? George: Politics.  It has always intrigued me. The amount of politics that takes place in everything, criminal investigations are the same thing. ... George:  But because there was instructions made to settle the case period, it was settled before it should have been. And for instance, it's normal in law enforcement if ever you make a plea bargain. The purpose is you get the confession from the person first and if that person cooperates, then you go in and recommend the plea bargain because if you made the plea bargain first, the suspect has no reason to cooperate and that's exactly what happened with Mark Hofmann. ... George:  But in retrospect, looking back at it, I do not criticize the attorneys that I disagreed with because as we look back, because he did confess, the FBI had to admit that they were forged and other people had to admit that he was a crook instead of an honest guy that we were framing, if you will. So overall it turned out okay. Check out our conversation…. George Throckmorton tells why the Hofmann sentence was so light for killing 2 people. Don't forget our other episodes with George! 174: Hofmann, LDS Leaders, & the McLellin Collection (Throckmorton) 173: Why Hofmann Killed his Best Friends (Throckmorton) 172: Who was the 3rd Bomb Intended For?  (Throckmorton) 171: More Hofmann Techniques & Forged Sports Memorabilia  (Throckmorton) 170: How Hofmann Fooled Experts with a Toy Chemistry Set (Throckmorton) 169: How George Became a Forensics Expert  (Throckmorton) You may be interested in Curt Bench and Shannon's Flynn's interactions as well! 086: Would Hofmann Kill Again? (Flynn) 085: Should Hofmann Ever Be Released from Prison? (Flynn) 084: Shannon Goes to Jail for Hofmann (Flynn) 083: Hofmann's Last Bomb Blew the Lid off Mormon History (Flynn) 082: Hoffman's Best Fake:  Fooling the Lie Detector Test (Flynn) 081: Mark's Million-Dollar Con (Flynn) 080: “I Cheat People.  That's What I do for a Living.” (Flynn) 079: Hofmann's Teenage Forgeries (Flynn) --- 042: Hofmann Bombings Effects on Mormon History (Bench) 041: Should LDS Leaders have Detected Hofmann's Fraud? (Bench) 040: Curt Bench's role in Hofmann Bombings Court Case (Bench) 039: Bomb Day 2:  Other Targets? – Oct 16, 1985 (Bench) 038: Bomb Day 1:  2 Killed – October 15, 1985 (Bench) 037: White Salamander Letter & Other Forgeries (Bench) 036: Bombs in Salt Lake: Introduction to Mark Hofmann (interview with Curt Bench)   [paypal-donation]

[paypal-donation] George Throckmorton is one of the most amazing police officers in the world.  Last year I talked to him about his role in the Mark Hofmann forgeries and bombings.  In this first episode, we'll get acquainted with him, and learn how he became a forgery expert.  Of course, we will talk about the Mark Hofmann forgeries and murders, but we will also briefly discuss one of his first forgery cases in Ogden, Utah.  The Hi-Fi Shop murders are well-known in Utah because a few robbers tortured and killed customers while robbing an Ogden store called the Hi-Fi Shop. It turns out that forgery was involved in that case! https://youtu.be/nPMJImQWyM8 GT:  I don't know how many of my listeners are familiar with a Hi-Fi Murders as they were known, but there were some criminals that tortured some people and killed them. It was pretty terrible. George:  Ironically that case, a significant part of that was due to handwriting. GT:  Really? Oh, I didn't know that. George: Again, we could go into that and I don't want to take a lot of time because that's not the emphasis. GT:  I'll have to come back. We'll have to talk about that. George: It's worth talking about that.  The significance was there was a homicide up there before the Hi-Fi Shop Murders, there was a homicide involving in airman from Hill Air Force Base and there was an auto theft ring going on out of Hill Air Force Base and they would steal cars and get an airman that was being released and asked him if he wanted to earn some extra money and he would drive the car back to the Chicago/Detroit area so he would get paid. And he was actually transporting stolen cars. But they didn't know it. ... George: In order for the cars to go back east, they had to have two sets of keys and Pierre can only find one set of keys. So, he went out to the base and got a duplicate set of keys made. He had to sign for that. I actually was able to attach his signature to request for the extra set of keys on that investigation when the Hi-Fi Shop Murders happened. So, we had been investigating that already and he was a suspect in that murder. We will talk more about how George became a document examiner.  Check out our conversation….. George Throckmorton figured out how Mark Hofmann was forging documents. Don't forget to check out our previous conversations about the Mark Hofmann case! 079: Hofmann's Teenage Forgeries (Shannon Flynn) 036: Bombs in Salt Lake: Introduction to Mark Hofmann (interview with Curt Bench) [paypal-donation]

We are continuing our focus on Black History Month here at Gospel Tangents.  I'd like to introduce Dr. Newell Bringhurst.  He has been publishing on a variety of Mormon history topics since the 1970s.  We'll get to know him a little better, and talk about his first book, Saints, Slaves & Blacks. https://youtu.be/IHgggBYGhMc Newell:  Well I started my academic career at the University of Utah.  I did both a bachelors and masters in History at the University of Utah in the mid-‘60s.  Then I went to California and did graduate work for a Ph.D. at the University of California-Davis.  I completed my doctoral dissertation which became the basis for my first book, Saints, Slaves, and Blacks.  I completed the dissertation in 1975, and then I revised it and updated because it was published three years before the black revelation of 1978.[1]  That, of course, required some major revision, particularly in the later chapters, and so I spent the next five years revising and updating the dissertation, and it was published in 1981 under the title of Saints, Slaves, and Blacks:  The Changing Place of Black People within Mormonism. GT:  Yeah, it's a great book.  I think I even paid $20 for it.  We were talking yesterday and I think you said it was $30 brand new, and I bought it 20 or 30 years later and it was still $20 so it has held its value well! Newell chuckles:  Well I've seen editions of it for as much as $75-$100 for ones that are in mint condition.  I think Curt Bench had one he had gotten from a private collection.  It had been autographed by me, it was an autographed copy and it looked like it was in mint condition and he was asking $75 for it! GT:  Yeah, yeah, it's a great book.  I understand you're working on a 2nd edition with Greg Kofford Books. Newell:  Yes it is going to be published as an updated, expanded version.  I'm going to virtually leave the text as I wrote it originally because #1, I feel like it has stood up pretty well with the test of time as far as my basic thesis and the way that my over-arching interpretation, but I'm going to add an introduction for the 2nd edition which will kind of be a historiographical discussion of where I fit into the scholarship as it evolved from those who preceded me in writing on the black issue and those who have written on the same issue since 1981.  Because there has been a whole body of literature and historical inquiry has moved in that direction beyond what I did in Saints, Slaves, and Blacks. I understand this second edition will be published in the next month or two!  We will talk about some of his other books that have been influential in Mormon studies.  Check out our conversation….. Dr. Newell Bringhurst has been writing on Mormon History for almost 50 years! Don't forget our other interviews on Black Mormon History: Russell Stevenson on Elijah Ables Dr. Darron Smith on Race, Religion, and Sport Dr. Paul Reeve on How Mormons Became a Racial Category --- [1] See https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/2  

Benchmark Books will celebrate 30 years in business. KSL NewsRadio's Doug Wright talks to owner Curt Bench about his experience. 

[paypal-donation] Sadly, October 15 marks 32 years since Kathy Sheets and Steven Christensen were killed.  Shannon asks, and answers an important question. Shannon:  People have asked me, “Do you think he would ever murder anybody again?”  I believe yes and no. [This is] my own thought of it.  I believe no because he is not naturally that way.  He sort of is now.  But I believe yes because someone told me this, and I hope that it is true.  Often times when a bear hurts or kills somebody in Yellowstone Park or something like that, they have to put the bear down.  Because they say that once that bear gets the taste of blood in his mouth, he will do it again and again and again. I think that's Mark.  He's done it once.  If he did not have a motivation to do it, I don't believe he would.  He wouldn't go out and shoot somebody for no reason, but I believe he has the taste of blood in his mouth.  If he got himself into another situation where he was up a creek and didn't know what to do and was about again to be exposed, I mean that's the reason he killed Steve Christensen. Lots of people have wondered who the third bomb was intended for.  We'll get into the different theories. Shannon:  that's the reason he was parked where he was.  That wasn't just a random place to park.  It was right down the street from the McEwen Mansion.  The attorney representing the guy that was going to purchase that McLellin Collection, pay off the loan, his office was in the McEwen Mansion.  So Mark was right down to the last hour, minute, and second.  He couldn't get out of it anymore.  He was going to have to go up that road and say, I don't have it, which he believed at that point the whole thing would unravel.  It very well may have. ... At that point he may have been so irrational that that's possible.  What in fact happened was, he parked that car, sat there for quite a while and thought, “I am caught.  I am caught.  What do I do?”  He got out of the car, that bomb package was sitting on the driver's seat and he made a decision to flip it over. GT:  So you think he did it on purpose. Shannon:  Oh yeah.  Now if he believed that he could have survived that, the car did burn but there were enough papers and stuff in the trunk that had it burned completely, which it didn't, which cars don't.  That only happens in the movies.  He could have said, “Yes.  McLellin Collection right there.”  Who could have proved him wrong? GT:  Right. Shannon:  He could have come up with a story about who put that bomb there, that he was really going up to the office and then he forgot something, came back, flipped the package over.  So does he regret what he did?  No.  Was he suicidal as, “I'm trying to repent of this?”  I don't think so.  I think his hand is in the cookie jar and he's thinking still, “how can I get out of this?”  He flipped the package. ... Shannon:  To get back to that third bomb, I don't know if there was a rational reason for that.  I just use all those examples because there doesn't need to be a rational reason for it to have happened, because there was lots of irrational things.  Who was that intended for?  No idea.  Maybe he didn't know who it was intended for until that day. We'll talk more about potential victim David Christensen (no relation to Steve), Shannon's role in the McLellin Collection, and Mark's dealings with Elder Oaks, Hinckley, and Pinnock.  Who do you think the third bomb was intended for?  Was it a suicide attempt?  Was it intended for Brent Ashworth as Curt Bench thinks?  Check out our conversation! https://youtu.be/cmiAf0KXB1s   [paypal-donation]  

[paypal-subscribe] In 1985 Mark Hofmann's last bomb blew himself up with his own pipe bomb.  Shannon Flynn, a good friend of Mark Hofmann describes what bystanders did to save Hofmann's life.  It's a pretty interesting story. When Mark had been blown up, he was lying in the street, and I'll give another little strange [story.]  This whole thing is just too weird.   There were some people in the area that saw that happen.  Several of them ran over to him.  There was a fellow by the last name of Christensen who saw that and went over.  Mark's shirt was torn a bit and he could see garments, so he knew that guy [Mark] was a member [of the LDS Church], pulled out a little vial of oil and gave him a blessing that he would live.  Well he did live.  I'll let you all think about that one. What do you think about blessing a criminal to live?  Did God honor that blessing? But that bomb didn't just severely injure Hofmann, it blew the lid off Mormon history.  We'll talk about the Salamander Letter and the magical world view, and how that really changed things for Mormon history. As an example, the Salamander letter, people said that's going to ruin the church.  That completely goes against the standard history of the church.  It did go against the basic juvenile understanding that most members have of the church, but that particular concept of salamander or toad, he actually took from Mormonism Unvailed.[1]  The concept of Joseph being prevented by that, he took it from a Jesse Knight diary.  At the end of the day, it was new information, more, but down the same track. It would not, and in fact it has been proved, I mean it isn't a real letter, but I mean my heavens, Michael Quinn some years later with Mormonism and the Magic World View, he confirmed every bit of it, every bit of it; not the particular animal, but confirmed every bit of it. in 1986 or 1987, Curt Bench put together this Errata for Dean Jesse's book The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith to alert readers to 6 Hofmann forgeries. The 2nd edition, published in 2002 has these forgeries removed. [1]Mormonism Unvailed was the first anti-Mormon book, written in 1834 by E.D. Howe.  Dan Vogel has written an annotated copy of the book, complete with footnotes reverencing Howe's claims.  See http://amzn.to/2fOpjU7 It turns out that home of Hofmann's forgeries ended up in some scholarly books.  Dean Jessee published a book called The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith in 1984 that unfortunately contained some Hofmann forgeries.  In 2002, Jessee published a 2nd edition of The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith that removed these forgeries.  Second edition is available at http://amzn.to/2fVPuM9  .  You can listen to Curt Bench's interview discussing the errata at https://gospeltangents.com/2017/05/22/updated-salamander-letter-podcast/ FAIR Mormon notes one of these forgeries was in both Dean Jessee's book, as well as Michael Quinn's book, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994).  Jessee had included (and Quinn referenced Jessee's book) that a Hofmann forgery was incorrectly included where Joseph allegedly wrote a letter to Jonathan Dunham asking the Nauvoo Legion to rescue Joseph from Carthage Jail.  FAIR notes “Deseret Book and Dean Jesse had also released an errata sheet for his Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, which was available by DATE. [citation needed].”  Date is probably around 1986-1987 when Hofmann was sentenced to jail.  See https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Question:_Did_Joseph_order_Jonathan_Dunham,_head_of_the_Nauvoo_legion,_to_rescue_him%3F retrieved 5 October 2017) What are your thoughts regarding Hofmann's forgeries?  Are you surprised that Quinn's book still contained the forgery as late as 1994?  What do you think God's reaction was to the blessing Hofmann received? https://youtu.be/DIzkTcrvtXU [paypal-donation]

I'd like to introduce David Rosenvall, who thinks the Book of Mormon took place on Baja Peninsula.  He's a name you may not be familiar with.  He has a few claims to fame:  1) He is the person who put together the scriptures on https://scriptures.lds.org!  2) While putting that project together, he and his father came up with a new Book of Mormon geography theory on the Baja Peninsula. 3) He was a witness to the bomb blast that injured Mark Hofmann back in 1985.  (We played an excerpt of his interview with Curt Bench.)  Let's get acquainted with him. David:  When I returned home from my mission in 1987, my father at the time was showing me something called hypertext.  It was a new technology on our little Macintosh computer.  He showed how he had the text of the scriptures, put it in and he was linking verses to footnotes.  At the time, boy, that was kind of interesting and neat way of reading the scriptures.  The scriptures at that time really weren't in a hypertext format. ... So we have an electronic version of the scriptures, probably the first one.  In fact I know it was the first one. The church didn't even have one.  It had the footnotes and everything.  It was about the year 2000, we had been maintaining this, that we donated all of this text, all linked up in a format that the internet could use.  In 2000 that became https://scriptures.lds.org . For about 10 years we maintained that for the church and did about 22 languages for them.  We got very intimate with the scriptures.  We got a really great understanding of them, just the linking and how they all went together. His father is a geographer at the University of Calgary. Baja Peninsula he picked up the scriptures and started going through them, and just trying to think as a geographer would think.  He says he remembers reading a scripture where it talks about the seeds.  The seeds from Jerusalem were taken with them to the new land and wherever they went, it said they grew exceedingly.  He said at that point he said, “I know right where this is.” Because as a geographer he taught it for many, many years: seeds only grow in certain climates as you're moving around the world.  He said, wait a second.  The climate of Jerusalem, it's got to be California or Baja California, one of those Californias.  So that's when he phoned me.  From then on, we spent the next two weeks combing the entire text in our search system trying to find things, so that's how it started, kind of out of a phone call and a question.  We're trying to disprove it to be honest with you.  That's kind of been our approach from the beginning.  How do we disprove the Baja?  We keep getting deeper and deeper trying to disprove it. What do you think?  Is this a plausible location for the Book of Mormon lands?  Check out our conversation in the audio above or video below… Don't forget to sign up below for a chance to win a free book! https://youtu.be/TRfhfRVSRW4

The Temple Lot Case is one of the most important sources for polygamy documents.  The RLDS Church wanted ownership of the temple lot in Independence, Missouri but another group, sometimes known as the Temple Lot Church owned the property.  The LDS Church assisted assisted the Temple Lot Church and had women testify about their polygamist relationships with Joseph Smith in order to counteract the RLDS claims that they were the true successors to Joseph Smith.  Dr. Brian Hales describes this important court testimony.  This is a continuation of our previous conversation about young bride Helen Mar Kimball, as Brian discusses her relation to the Temple Lot case. If we didn't have the RLDS Church saying Joseph wasn't a polygamist, we wouldn't have the 1869 affidavits, we wouldn't have the 1877 collection by Andrew Jensen, and we wouldn't have the additional information from the Temple Lot Case.  Together those three are 75% of what we know, and it's scary for researchers on polygamy to think about what we would know about Nauvoo polygamy if the RLDS Church had not taken the stance that they did.  It's really scary.  You'd have John C. Bennett.  You'd have William Law, and you would not know even a fraction of what we think we know about it today. Check out our conversation… Don't forget to check out our previous episodes on Fanny Alger, as well as parts 1–7 of our conversations with Brian. https://youtu.be/IDP7Ybvk1cw   Our New Contest! Don't forget to sign up for a contest to win a free book!  You can sign up here!  It is the Parallel Doctrine & Covenants that contains the 1832, 1833, and 1835 Doctrine & Covenants side by side so you can see the changes.  When it was originally published, it was about $50, but the book is now out of print.  Curt Bench was actually the one who wrote the introduction to this book.  It's a fairly recent book, but if you find it on Amazon now, check this out.  It's $175.  On Abebooks it's even higher–$260!  This book is a valuable book and has become a collector's item, especially for historians or those seriously interested in Mormon history. Here's what you need to do for a chance to win.  Just go to https://gospeltangents.com/newsletter .  In there, enter your email address and your name, and we will simply put you in a contest for a drawing on Pioneer Day, July 24th, 2017. https://gospeltangents.com/shop/transcripts/polygamy-temple-lot-case/  

The Hofmann bombings and forgeries have had a lasting impact on Church history.  In the 1970s Leonard Arrington was a trained historian and became Church Historian.  He opened the Archives to many researchers and people interested in Mormon History.  However, General Authorities were concerned about some of the controversial aspects that were being uncovered.  Of course Mark Hofmann had a lot to do with some of those controversial documents.  How big of an impact did he play in shutting down access to church records in the Church History Library? He certainly made the church change its entire approach to security, and protecting its holdings.  It severely restricted access. I think there was a long period of time when they were trying to determine what they had in their own holdings that were genuine and weren't genuine.  Yeah he definitely had an impact on how things are done at the Church History Library.  I know it was a lot harder for me to do business with the church after that.  Before things were more—I don't know what the right word is, but it was easier to do business. It was more informal.  It became very formal.  There were processes you had to go through and committees had to make decisions on acquisitions and things like that rather than just being left to an individual. Curt Bench will tell us about Mark Hofmann's impact.  But have things improved? I really think we are in a new era, and I can only hope that it will get even better.  The Joseph Smith Papers Project is one of the biggest evidences of that whole new attitude and openness.  I mean those scholars are not given a list of restrictions as to what they can research and what they can write about and publish.  Talk about throwing the books open, they're doing it.  They're making our history available and accessible.  There's some very impressive scholarship that's gone into that project, for example.  That's had spinoffs. We see a lot of other research and writing and publishing that's being done as a result of that whole attitude.  Rick [Turley] is no longer Assistant Church Historian. He's over Public Affairs now.  I think he's one of the unsung heroes in my opinion.  He has helped us get to the point we are now, and those others that I mentioned and many that we can't take the time to name. Check out our conversation… (Don't forget to check out (parts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6!) https://gospeltangents.com/feed/podcast/ https://youtu.be/6Y3eoZlXPv8 https://gospeltangents.com/shop/transcripts/hofmann-bombings-effect-mormon-history/  

Let's talk about the Mark Hofmann bombings & forgeries.  There are some critics of the LDS Church who ask the question, why weren't church leaders able to discern, using the spirit of prophecy the Hofmann fraud? Curt Bench:  I've heard that countless times. GT:  How do respond to that? Curt:  Well, the way I respond is that we're all in good company, because we all got fooled.  His family got fooled, his own wife and his parents, his friends and neighbors, other family, experts that tested his materials.  He fooled everyone, including General Authorities.  So I guess I'm prone to grant them, or give them a lot of slack because they're human just like we are.  As Dallin Oaks said later, unless we're given a reason not to trust, we trust people. Others note that it seems like Church bought anti-Mormon material, or material unflattering to the church's narrative in order to hide them from the public and prevent discovery of them.  Is that a fair characterization? Curt:  I mean that bothered people I think when that came to light.  From President Hinckley's perspective if I were in his shoes I would understand better the motivation I think but like I said, everything is 20/20 now in our vision.  But I can understand why that would be a difficult thing for people because it does give people the impression of trying to hide things and put things in the best light possible so I can certainly understand that perspective. Curt Bench goes into further detail on these questions.  We'll also talk about how Mark's family reacted, as well as the family of Steve Christensen, (Steve was killed in the first bombing.)  Check out our conversation…  (Don't forget to check out (parts 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5!) https://youtu.be/n0q4G5zZKdY https://gospeltangents.com/shop/transcripts/lds-leaders-detected-hofmann/    

We're continuing our conversation about the Hofmann bombings.  This time we'll talk about the short court case against Mark Hofmann.  It wasn't much of a case, just a preliminary hearing.  Curt Bench tells us that he was initially skeptical about police reports that Hofmann was the bomber. Yeah they were convinced but it took a long time to convince me and others that he was guilty.  He was our friend.  He was a guy we had known and done business with for years.  Your friends don't kill people, and there was no talk then of forgery or nobody knew about the financial schemes or him being a con man or anything like that, so that was all to come. Curt also tells how he became an unknowing participant in Hofmann's fraud. I showed Mark this Book of Common Prayer which was no big deal, but he said, ‘well I'll give you 50 bucks for it.'  [I thought] I don't have a customer, I might as well.  Later he said, ‘you know there was some writing in the back of that appears to be Martin Harris' so I'll give you a couple thousand dollars for it.'  [This was] after he had already given me $50 for it and that was fine because I didn't know.  So I thought, ‘gosh that's really quite fair.'  So what turned out that he'd done… GT interrupts:  So you didn't question that Martin Harris was in there.  You just thought you missed that? Curt:  No, no.  In fact later and during the investigation and in the preliminary hearing I had been asked.  Well let me go back and say, what Mark did, we found out later was he wrote a little poem about returning this book which you've borrowed.  I don't remember the text of it, in ‘Martin Harris's handwriting.'  Because here you have a known Harris family item, and no examples of Martin Harris's handwriting extant, and so Mark created Martin Harris's handwriting which was used to establish the authenticity of the Salamander Letter. Check out this episode!  You'll hear Curt Bench will tell us about how he spoke at the Hofmann Bombings preliminary hearing. (Don't forget to check out (parts 1, 2, 3, and 4!)  Check out our conversation… https://youtu.be/QS0Spyc497Q   https://gospeltangents.com/shop/transcripts/curt-benchs-role-hofmanns-court-case/  

We'll continue our discussion about the Mark Hofmann bombings.  After a night's rest, the bombs continued the next day again, but this time Mark himself was the victim. Curt Bench:  Remember I told you about warning Mark and so the next day which is the 16th of October [1985] I'm driving.  Actually I had been somewhere to try to negotiate a deal that was based on information I had gotten from him, so I'm driving back to my office and on the news said there was a third bomb.  Keep in mind this is surreal for our area.  I mean these bombings are going on.  Nobody knows what's going on.  Nobody knows why, there's a lot of fear.  There's a lot of uncertainty and then when there's a third bomb and then I find out that it's Mark Hofmann that's the victim, I about drove off the road, and I remember hitting my steering wheel and saying aloud to myself, ‘Mark why didn't you listen to me?'  He didn't seek safety and he was the third victim. In preparing for another interview, I was surprised to learn that a young missionary by the name of David Rosenvall actually witnessed and heard the bomb blast that injured Hofmann.  David will describe his reactions to the loud noise he heard as he left the Salt Lake Temple that day. David Rosenvall:  The day before I was to enter into the MTC [Missionary Training Center], I was at the Salt Lake Temple and coming out from that experience and our car was parked on Main Street just beside the Deseret Gym.  As I got to the car, was putting some things in there, just up the road and just behind the Deseret Gym there, there was an explosion and at the time I had no idea what it was or what was going on.  We quickly ran up there to see it.  There were about 20 people gathered around somebody on the road.  You could see that he was injured and hurt.  I didn't know who it was at the time. Was it an accident?  Was it intended for someone else, or did Mark purposely injure himself?  These are some great questions and Curt Bench will talk about the answers to these questions in our conversation.  (Don't forget to check out Part 1, Part 2, & Part 3!)  What do you remember about the Hofmann bombings? Check out our conversation… https://youtu.be/ars8PDjDAto https://gospeltangents.com/shop/transcripts/bomb-day-2-targets-oct-16-1985/  

Steve Christensen was killed on October 15, 1985 when he picked up a package outside his office.  It was a pipe bomb and it blew up with a bunch of concrete nails killing him instantly.  It was a horrible scene.  Curt Bench describes how he found out about it driving to work and that he immediately called his friend Mark Hofmann to warn him about a bomber out there. A few hours later Kathy Sheets also picked up another bomb from Mark Hofmann and she was killed instantly.  Her husband, Gary Sheets had been partners with Steve Christensen.  Many wondered if this was a financial deal.  Was it a mafia plot, or was it something to do with Mormon documents?  Both men had experience with those.  Let's listen in as Curt Bench tells us about how the news unfolded to him. Curt:  I talked to Mark on the phone, the day of the bombings. GT:  Oh really. Curt:  Several times, probably six or seven times.  I called first to warn him about the bombings, well bombing at that point because there was already a lot on the news.  I was actually driving to work that morning and they said there was a bomb that had gone off in the Judge Building.  It was just a few blocks from where I worked.  They even as I recall gave the office number and it said a businessman had been killed.  I only knew one person in the Judge Building and that was Steve Christensen, so as soon as I got to my office at work I looked up in my directory and pulled up his name and there was that office number at the Judge Building and I was just sick physically.  I mean it was just horrible. ... I got the answering machine and I said Mark, this is Curt.  This is an emergency.  Please call me back immediately, as soon as you get this. A short time later he called, and just kind of light-heartedly said, Curt this is Mark.  You said it was an emergency but then everything's an emergency with you, just making a joke.  Then I told him what had happened, that Steve Christensen had been killed and there was a sharp intake of breath, “What?” like he was genuinely shocked.  I told him everything I'd heard.  It was as if he'd never heard a thing.  I warned him and told him to get his family out of the house, to get into hiding, whatever because we didn't know what was going on. GT:  I know originally it seems like because Steve was a financial thing, there was a lot of people thought it must have had something to do with his finances, but you originally thought it had something to do with… Curt interrupts:  Well I didn't know.  Nobody knew. GT:  Oh ok. Curt:  And that very day there was speculation about, did it have something to do with Mormon documents, because Steve had been in the news.  I'm trying to remember about the news part.  Certainly it was known he had been involved in trying to get the Salamander Letter. GT:  So you made the connection that you thought it could have been? Curt:  Well it could have been.  Yeah there was speculation early on about was this business related, because there were angry investors with the Sheets company, CFS. What are your reactions to the bombings?  Do you remember them? https://youtu.be/SaVSHcFtr8k https://gospeltangents.com/shop/transcripts/bomb-day-1-2-killed-october-15-1985/  

Curt Bench (owner of Benchmark Books in Salt Lake City) knew Mark Hofmann very well, having purchased many artifacts and documents from him.    Hofmann's most famous forgery was known as the White Salamander Letter. The letter threatened to re-write Mormon history and fooled many experts in Mormon history. It was just such a different take on the traditional story as one could imagine, and so he [Mark Hofmann] had claimed to have gotten it back east, a letter that came into his hands through a compatriot of his when actually later we find out that Mark created the document.  It kind of turned Mormon history on its head and then you have people squaring up on each side, the scholars that are trying to make sense of it and others saying there's no way that could be true. Mark didn't just fool Mormon experts.  He actually tried to sell something to the Library of Congress and many of those experts were fooled as well. Oath of a Free Man which was the first printed item in America that he tried to sell to the Library of Congress for $1 million to $1 million and a half.  He completely created that.  He has the plates made for it.  He printed it and altered letters and kind of rubbed them down so they looked old.  He did all kinds of things and the Library of Congress was doing tests on it, and the American Antiquarian Society was another that looked very closely at buying that, and that was a huge deal when that failed to sell because Mark owed so many people money because of his schemes and a lot of it was over the McLellin Collection which nobody ever saw but there was a lot of talk about and a lot of money that changed hands over it.  Because that failed to sell, The Oath of a Free Man, Mark was in a world of hurt financially and had to come up with money. It's amazing the number of experts Hofmann was able to fool.  Don't forget to check out Part 1 of our conversation.  What do you think? https://youtu.be/qCt4v47KMlc https://gospeltangents.com/shop/transcripts/white-salamander-letter-other-forgeries/

In 1985, three bombs in Salt Lake went off in two days.  It was the work of Mark Hofmann, a master forger and now a bomber.  He killed two people and injured himself in these bomb blasts.  Curt Bench was actually a good friend of Mark Hofmann at the time as well as one of the victims killed, Steve Christensen.  Curt gives us his firsthand account of how he learned about this, and especially how he was introduced to Mark Hofmann. https://youtu.be/hxC12GXE5Ws Curt:  Well I tell people I didn't know him well as well as I wish I had, as I should have.  When you said we were good friends, we were friends, but we did a lot of business together.  He kind of established himself as a, I guess today what would we say?  [He was] kind of a rock star.  He had made some amazing discoveries of Mormon documents, the Anthon Transcript and things like that that got him a lot of attention. I met him.  I was in the same business, although we hadn't really done documents very much, maybe once in a while but we did a lot of rare books, other collectibles and so I was kind of excited to meet Mark Hofmann who had gotten all this attention and had established himself as an expert in documents as well as other things, rare books, and things.  So it made sense for me to get to know him and to do business with him and we did a lot of business over the next few years. Hoffman didn't deal in just Mormon documents. We had a Daniel Boone document {early American frontiersman}.  I'm just trying to think of some things that weren't just in the Mormon field.  Some things were books but quite often they were documents and so this was my big foray into that field.  I was a relative novice when it came to Mormon manuscripts and documents and so I kind of let him guide me in a lot cases.  When he would—he wasn't dramatic at all and didn't seem like he was trying to sell you.  He wasn't a used car salesman type at all.  He was quiet and introspective but he made a big deal about things, but often he would say, “It's a nice item.” Were any of the items caught early?  Check the podcast to find out.  (You may also be interested in our interviews with Shannon Flynn who talks about Mark's teenage forgeries!)  What do you think about this tragic story? Curt Bench, Owner of Benchmark Books and witness of Hofmann Bombings and forgeries https://gospeltangents.com/shop/transcripts/bombsinsaltlake/

This is a wonderful sermon given by Richard D. Poll, given in his Palo Alto, California, home ward and then published in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought (Winter 1967). In it, Poll introduces the (now classic) metaphors of "Iron Rod" and "Liahona" Mormons, which he uses to describe two types of active, dedicated Latter-day Saints but who different from each other temperamentally. It is read for Matters of Perspective by Curt Bench

Parker Blount, Jana Riess, Michael Vinson, Kristine Haglund, Curt Bench and J. Frederick (Toby) Pingree  present on the panel, “Why We Stay” on August 2, 2013. [powerpress]

Parker Blount, Jana Riess, Michael Vinson, Kristine Haglund, Curt Bench and J. Frederick (Toby) Pingree  present on the panel, “Why We Stay” on August 2, 2013. [powerpress]

Dan Wotherspoon interviews Allen D. Roberts and Curt Bench about the lasting legacy of Mormon forger, con man, and murderer Mark Hofmann. Exactly twenty-five years ago, on the morning of 15 October 1985, Salt Lake City was rattled—both literally and psychologically—by the explosion of two bombs which each killed a person. The next day brought a third explosion, nearly killing Mark Hofmann, a well-known dealer in Mormon documents. Because of clues at that scene, investigators soon realized that perhaps Hofmann was not so much a third victim but the person actually responsible for all three bombs. In the course of the investigation, the tale of Mark Hofmann as a master forger and con artist began to unfold. In this podcast, we examine the long and complex legacy of these murders and forgeries, as well as their continued reverberations even today. Although it is still unclear if Hofmann’s intent was to bring down Mormonism through creating documents that challenged traditional presentations of early Church origins, he definitely was a serious student of Mormon history and knew where various controversies lay—which he then exploited through the forged letters and documents he produced. This case has also presented challenges to some Latter-day Saints because of Hofmann’s various meetings with Mormon general authorities who failed to detect that he was deceiving them, as well as because of the Church’s practice of sometimes obtaining controversial documents and then suppressing them. Joining Mormon Stories host Dan Wotherspoon to tell the story of these tragic murders and complex issues are two terrific guests: Allen Roberts, who co-authored with Linda Sillitoe the book Salamander: The Story of the Mormon Forgery Murders, which is widely regarded as the most thorough account of the Hofmann saga, and Curt Bench, who at the time of the bombings managed the Fine and Rare Books department of Deseret Book’s flagship store in downtown Salt Lake City in which he dealt regularly with Mark Hofmann and even considered him a friend. Linda, Allen, and Curt all ended up playing important roles in helping investigators ultimately make their case against Hofmann and untangle the threads that had led him to murder.

Dan Wotherspoon interviews Allen D. Roberts and Curt Bench about the lasting legacy of Mormon forger, con man, and murderer Mark Hofmann. Exactly twenty-five years ago, on the morning of 15 October 1985, Salt Lake City was rattled—both literally and psychologically—by the explosion of two bombs which each killed a person. The next day brought a third explosion, nearly killing Mark Hofmann, a well-known dealer in Mormon documents. Because of clues at that scene, investigators soon realized that perhaps Hofmann was not so much a third victim but the person actually responsible for all three bombs. In the course of the investigation, the tale of Mark Hofmann as a master forger and con artist began to unfold. In this podcast, we examine the long and complex legacy of these murders and forgeries, as well as their continued reverberations even today. Although it is still unclear if Hofmann’s intent was to bring down Mormonism through creating documents that challenged traditional presentations of early Church origins, he definitely was a serious student of Mormon history and knew where various controversies lay—which he then exploited through the forged letters and documents he produced. This case has also presented challenges to some Latter-day Saints because of Hofmann’s various meetings with Mormon general authorities who failed to detect that he was deceiving them, as well as because of the Church’s practice of sometimes obtaining controversial documents and then suppressing them. Joining Mormon Stories host Dan Wotherspoon to tell the story of these tragic murders and complex issues are two terrific guests: Allen Roberts, who co-authored with Linda Sillitoe the book Salamander: The Story of the Mormon Forgery Murders, which is widely regarded as the most thorough account of the Hofmann saga, and Curt Bench, who at the time of the bombings managed the Fine and Rare Books department of Deseret Book’s flagship store in downtown Salt Lake City in which he dealt regularly with Mark Hofmann and even considered him a friend. Linda, Allen, and Curt all ended up playing important roles in helping investigators ultimately make their case against Hofmann and untangle the threads that had led him to murder.