Gospel Tangents Podcast

Matt Harris told me that only 30% of his research went into his book "2nd Class Saints" due to space restrictions. What was left out? We'll find out and also get a preview of his upcoming biography of Hugh B Brown. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/fQBhV5kMdZ4 Don't miss our other conversations with Matt: https://gospeltangents.com/people/matt-harris/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.   What Was Left Out? GT  00:30  I think I've only asked you 1/20 of what I wanted to ask. I need to let you go, but the last question that I want to hit you on, I remember we had a conversation one time, and you said that when you write a book, you only put in about 30% of your research. Usually it's because of page limitations and that sort of a thing. Can you share a story or two of the 70% that's not in this book? Matt  01:07  Yeah. GT  01:09  I mean, I guess the Brown stuff, that's for your new book. But what are some things that due to space restrictions you just couldn't get in? Matt  01:21  Well, just a quick thought, the Brown stuff is in there, his activism and speaking to the press and getting Monroe Fleming ordained or trying to get him ordained, that's all in there in great detail. But the later stuff in the 1970s... GT  01:34  Daddy, the recording, I don't think that was in there. Matt  01:38  No, no, no. That will be in my Brown biography. And in full disclosure, I found some of this stuff after, later. GT  01:53  A book is never finished. Right? Matt  01:58  Oh, my goodness. Well, there are other details that I'll include about Brown and the ban, in particular, because it's so pivotal to his story, as is polygamy, weirdly enough. And also, the other story I'll just start with a teaser, is that Brown was told that he would be an apostle at the age of 15, if he lived righteous enough. He wasn't called in the Quorum of the Twelve until he was 78 years of age. GT  02:19 Wow. Matt  02:20 That is a problem, especially if you've been told... GT  02:24. We could have gotten rid of the ban sooner. Right? If he was only 20... Matt  02:29. The teaser I'll give you is it wasn't the ban that kept him out. It was something else. He was accused of doing something he did not do. GT  02:36  Did Newell Bringhurst share that story, or maybe you did. Was it with alcohol? Matt  02:43  Newell wouldn't have known this. Well, Newell knows it only for me. This is all new stuff that nobody knows about. And I've shared it with a few people. GT  02:47  Was it with the alcohol commission or something? Matt  02:52  Yeah. Some other time, I'll tell you more about the details of that. It's a fascinating thing. He was accused of taking bribes that he didn't take. But perception can be reality. GT  03:02. It doesn't matter when it's politics. Matt  03:04  That's right. GT  03:04. Accusation is good enough. Matt  03:05  That's right, and especially when people's income is at stake. So there's a lot of things I didn't talk about in this book. I couldn't because of space constraints, but some of it was--I'll give you a couple of examples. One deals with the activism. I talk a lot about the Church Education System and the BYU religion faculty and CES/Institute people, those who teach the young men and women of the Church, college age. I was shocked at the level of pushback from people who are paid to teach religion to the college-aged kids, how much they opposed the ban. GT  03:51 Oh wow. Matt  03:52 And you definitely get that in this book. You see it. I mean, I name some names, just the more high profile people like Lowell Bennion. But because of the length of the book, and they wanted to keep the price down, the press and all of that, I had to cut out a lot of details on that. GT  04:10. Can we get a sequel? Matt  04:14. And so I name names.

We're discussing polygamy in John Turner's Joseph Smith Biography and giving away a book! https://youtube.com/live/09QmyE6WweU Don't miss our other conversations with John: https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-turner/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   Welcome, everyone, to Gospel Tangents Live! Sunday, we were live, giving away a copy of John Turner's acclaimed biography, "The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet." I just wrapped up an amazing interview with Turner. He is a super fun guy. It was certainly an engaging discussion, even touching on unexpected controversies like the gold plates. I'll have a specific focus on the often-debated topic of polygamy. I'll be tackling this subject for an upcoming presentation at Sunstone (University of Utah, Aug 1st) and the John Whitmer Historical Association (Independence, September 20th). Let's break down some of the key points discussed, looking at both the "problematic" and "overwhelming" evidence surrounding Joseph Smith's polygamy. Problematic Polygamy: Unflattering Episodes and Skeptical Points There are several challenging aspects of Joseph Smith's polygamy, as presented in Turner's book: Questioned Revelations: Turner raises questions about the 1831 revelations regarding polygamy to Native Americans. This is partly based on the reaction of Ezra Booth, an early church critic, who, according to Turner, would have made a "bigger deal about polygamy" if such a revelation had been widely known and accepted at the time. Obscurity of Activities: Joseph Smith took "great pains to obscure his polygamy activities," which Turner notes makes it difficult to ascertain the full scope and nature of these practices. Polygamy skeptics often don't acknowledge this challenge. Limited Sexual Relations: Turner believes that sexual relations with plural spouses were limited. I'm working on a probability model to explore how often Joseph and another wife besides Emma should have gotten pregnant. Joseph and Emma had nine children (eight pregnancies), proving Joseph's fertility. Skeptics often jump to extremes, either no sex or sex "every night," with "never a happy medium". Denouncing Adultery: Joseph Smith publicly denounced adulteryon pages 276-277 of Turner's book, a point skeptics often over emphasize. The Nancy Rigdon Incident: This incident, leading to the infamous "Happiness Letter," is discussed on pages 277, 286, and 287. Nancy Rigdon rejected Joseph's marriage proposal in April 1842. John C. Bennett later published the "Happiness Letter". Turner considers Sidney Rigdon's denial that Joseph wrotethe letter (as opposed to denying the allegationsthat Joseph propositioned Nancy) a "weak response," especially since Joseph typically used scribes to write almost everything. The Sarah Pratt and John C. Bennett Incident: Also on pages 286-287, this involves Sarah Pratt (married to Orson Hyde) and John C. Bennett. When Orson Hyde discovered a potential relationship between Sarah and Joseph, he wrote a suicide note. In a subsequent meeting, Orson Pratt (Sarah's husband) reportedly opposed Joseph Smith in a subsequent meeting due to the issue with Sarah Pratt, a well-documented story according to Turner and most historians. Brigham Young's Polygamy Rejection: Brigham Young's plural marriage proposal to Martha Brotherton was rejected, as noted on page 289. This isn't a flattering portrayal of polygamy. These "problematic" cases often involve both pro-polygamy (like Brigham Young) and anti-polygamy (like John C. Bennett or Sarah Pratt) sources. Their agreement on key events "is pretty strong evidence that something happened". Overwhelming Evidence: "Prodigious" Polygamy Points Despite the problematic aspects, John Turner consider "overwhelming evidence" for Joseph Smith's involvement in polygamy: Early Sealings:

Joseph Smith's arrest for treason in having the Nauvoo Expositor destroyed led to his death. He didn't use habeas corpus to get out of this jam, and it cost him his life. Dr John Turner shares his reactions to Joseph's life. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/pcN0sdqR0ws Don't miss our other conversations with John: https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-turner/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission. Recklessness, Revelation, and the Power of Habeas Corpus Joseph Smith, a towering figure in American religious history, saw his life come to a dramatic and tragic end in June 1844. As discussed in this conversation with John Turner, author of "Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet," the events leading up to his death reveal a complex interplay of political tension, legal maneuverings, and personal choices. A Provocative Path to Disaster The final six months of Joseph Smith's life were marked by increasingly provocative and reckless actions. He engaged in unnecessary fights, denouncing and antagonizing men from the stand during meetings, almost as if "inviting opposition.” His rhetoric and one-on-one conversations with dissenters were "incautious.” While he was under an “incredible amount of stress" due to fears of enemies and potential execution, this stress often led him to respond in unconstructive ways. A key event was the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor newspaper in May 1844. This act made him vulnerable to his enemies. While some historians like Michael Quinn have suggested the Council of Fifty minutes and negotiations with foreign nations were a bigger concern than polygamy charges in the Expositor, Joseph and his allies used "salty language" for various objections to the paper, including theological innovations, accumulation of political power, and polygamy. It wasn't a single issue, and despite opponents like William Law finding it difficult to break with Joseph, his incendiary behavior prevented reconciliation. Fateful Return to Nauvoo When Governor Thomas Ford of Illinois sent a posse to arrest Joseph Smith in June 1844, Joseph initially fled across the Mississippi River, contemplating leaving Nauvoo and reuniting with his wife, Emma, elsewhere. He had a history of evading arrest. However, he ultimately chose to return to Nauvoo and go to Carthage to face charges related to the Nauvoo Expositor's destruction. Later sources sometimes blame individuals, like Emma, for convincing him to return, not wanting him to abandon her and the family. However, a contemporary letter from Vilate Kimble states that Joseph "sought the will of the Lord and God told him to return.” This indicates Joseph believed his decision to return was a revelation. The Power and Peril of Habeas Corpus Joseph Smith's experience with legal challenges, particularly his use of habeas corpus, is a significant aspect of his later life. Habeas corpus is a legal mechanism that gives an arrested individual an opportunity for a hearing on the legality of their arrest at the earliest stage of the process. Early, Legitimate Use:Joseph used habeas corpuseffectively to avoid arrest on Missouri charges. For example, when attempts were made to extradite him to Missouri starting around 1841 or 1842, he requested and was granted a writ of habeas corpus from a state judge. Stephen Douglas reportedly heard one such case and freed Joseph, ruling the arrest warrant invalid. This demonstrates how the power was "supposed to work.” Nauvoo's Enhanced Powers:In 1842, the Nauvoo City Council began passing statutes that significantly enhanced its ability to issue writs of habeas corpus, aiming to protect Joseph Smith and other residents from arrest on anycharge – whether internal Nauvoo law, state law, or more serious offenses. Nauvoo's own municipal court, over which Joseph, as mayor, could preside,

We're diving into Nauvoo polygamy & Joseph Smith's many wives. How often did he have sexual relations with his wives? Was it less frequent than many think? John Turner attempts to answer. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/1S-ZRA7kFcQ Don't miss our other conversations with John: https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-turner/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Insights into Joseph Smith's Controversial Practice The Nauvoo period (1839-1844) in the history of the Latter-day Saints is a fascinating and often controversial chapter, particularly concerning the practice of plural marriage, or polygamy, by Joseph Smith. Historian John Turner, author of the acclaimed biography "Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of American Prophet," sheds light on this complex topic. Nauvoo: A New Beginning and an Acceleration of Vision Following Joseph Smith's escape from jail in Missouri, the Latter-day Saints established a new community in Nauvoo, Illinois. The choice of Nauvoo was largely due to an individual named Isaac Galland, a land speculator who had extensive land holdings on both sides of the Mississippi River in Nauvoo and Iowa. Galland was in contact with church leaders even while Joseph was imprisoned, making the possibility of purchasing these lands an early consideration. Upon arriving in Quincy, Illinois, Joseph Smith quickly pursued these land purchases, and Saints began to gather rapidly on both sides of the Mississippi. Despite facing opposition and being advised by opponents to spread out, Joseph Smith characteristically doubled or tripled down on his vision rather than backing down from setbacks. This resolve led to the quick establishment of Nauvoo, a community that by 1844 rivaled Chicago as the largest city in Illinois. Far from an interruption, Nauvoo represented an "acceleration of Joseph's vision" in the years after 1839. The Astonishing Pace of Plural Marriages It is in this rapidly growing and centralizing community that Joseph Smith's plural marriage practice truly took off. John Turner noted that the pace of Joseph's marriages was "astonishing," with him reportedly taking a dozen wives in 1842 alone. While "monogamy affirmers" or "polygamy skeptics" contend that these events did not occur, most scholars, including John Turner and Larry Foster, agree that the evidence for Joseph Smith's practice of polygamy is "overwhelming". The Evidence: What Do We Know? While it is difficult to precisely date exact timelines or get directly inside Joseph Smith's mind to understand his intentions, there is substantial evidence regarding his polygamous activities. Joseph Smith took pains to keep his plural marriages quiet. However, information comes from: Contemporary Accounts:The William Clayton Journalis described as a "fantastic and extensive contemporary account" that is considered reliable, aligning with other early 1840s sources. Journals kept by Willard Richards and Brigham Young also provide corroborating information. Affidavits and Testimony:Numerous affidavits about Joseph's plural marriages exist, including very late sources like the Temple Lot testimonyfrom a number of his wives and other individuals. Even though the church had a particular purpose in affirming Joseph's polygamy in this legal conflict, testimonies from women like Emily Dow Partridge were "not flattering for Joseph Smith," making it unlikely the church fabricated them. According to Turner, it's an "open and shut case" that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. Theological Motivations: Getting "All That You Can" Joseph Smith himself did not explicitly articulate a singular reason for the exact number of women he married. However, contextually, and based on what other early Latter-day Saints said about plural marriage during these years, it appears that Joseph connected "the size of an individual's family on earth ...

The origins of polygamy are murky. Was there an 1831 revelation on the topic? What was the nature of the Fanny Alger relationship? We'll also discuss Zion's Camp, and Joseph Smith's dog, Old Major, who caused some issues with the troops. How did Liberty Jail affect Joseph Smith & the Church? John Turner tackles these questions. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/v9171F-vXok Don't miss our other conversations with John: https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-turner/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Peering into Joseph Smith's Story We recently had the privilege of delving into the life of Joseph Smith with John Turner, author of the compelling biography, Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet. The conversation unpacked some of the most intriguing and lesser-known episodes from Smith's early life, providing valuable context and challenging common narratives. Nuances of the Fanny Alger Controversy One of the topics we explored was the Fanny Alger controversy. While historical sources on this episode are often late or secondhand, making it difficult to write about with confidence, John Turner found persuasive arguments that date Fanny Alger's relationship with Joseph Smith to shortly before she left Kirtland in August or September of 1836. Interestingly, there's been discussion about whether this was an "adoptive sealing." However, John said it's considered unlikely to have been an adoptive sealing because Joseph Smith had not yet fully articulated or developed his understanding of sealing at that time. Oliver Cowdery, a key figure in the early church, certainly didn't view it as such, remaining "very angry about it in early 1838.” Instead, it is most likely to have been "some sort of intimate relationship" that was disturbing to both Oliver Cowdery and Emma Smith. He said It is also considered unlikely to have been a plural marriage. It's worth noting that while sexual impropriety allegations were common against new religious movements, the Fanny Alger controversy, though a "live issue within the church for several years," did not particularly resonate with the church's external critics at the time in the context of plural marriage or polygamy. In fact, the Church's 1835 Declaration on Marriage emphasized monogamy as the standard. Zion's Camp and the Tale of "Old Major" Moving to 1834, we discussed Zion's Camp, Joseph Smith's march to Missouri. While often seen as a significant event for its larger purposes, it also had its lighter — and more human — moments. One such detail involves "Old Major," Joseph Smith's dog. During the challenging and conflict-ridden trip, Old Major didn't get along with another church member, Sylvester Smith (no relation to Joseph). The dog's barking at night and potential attempts to bite Sylvester led to Sylvester speaking "rude things about Joseph Smith's dog" and even wanting to shoot it. In a moment highlighting the "juvenile" but understandable "temper flared" nature of the trip, Joseph Smith reportedly threatened to shoot Sylvester Smith in response. This anecdote underscores that the participants of Zion's Camp were "not all of one heart in mind.” Sylvester Smith later published a confession for opposing Joseph rudely, even managing to say the note was made "under duress.” From a broader perspective, while the spiritual purpose of Zion's Camp — the redemption of Zion — ultimately failed, it was ironically a "very positive thing for many of those who were participants.” Despite Zion not being redeemed and the march stopping short of engaging enemies or reclaiming property, the majority of marchers found their faith strengthened. This was partly because, by accepting the call, they were "further entering into Joseph's story," experiencing "divine promises and chastening and failures" alongside him.

What does John Turner believe about the Golden Plates? Were they made of tin as Dan Vogel asserts? What about the First Vision controversy? Does John think Joseph was a pious fraud? Did Joseph take advantage of Martin Harris? John answers these and other question. Check out our conversation... Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission What Did Joseph Smith Really Have in that Box? Historian John Turner, author of Joseph Smith, The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet, delves into the enduring mystery surrounding Joseph Smith's golden plates and the origins of the Book of Mormon. His insights offer a nuanced perspective, moving beyond simple pronouncements to a historian's critical examination. The Golden Plates: A Historian's Best Judgment When it comes to the golden plates, Turner makes a clear distinction between visionary experiences and material objects. While he acknowledges that understanding Joseph Smith's visions is difficult as a historian, dealing with a physical claim like the golden plates is different. Turner's "best judgment" as a historian is that Joseph Smith did not have actual golden plates. However, he strongly believes Joseph did engage in a "certain amount of subterfuge". Joseph clearly possessed some sort of physical object which he would place in a box, heft around, and at times cover with a linen cloth. Others, including Emma Smith, witnessed an object that seemed like "thin sheets of metal under a linen cloth," suggesting some form of metallic object. For Turner, the simplest explanation for a young man claiming to have a valuable object he can't show to anyone else is that he doesn't have it. This conclusion is also reinforced by his reading of the Book of Mormon as a 19th-century text, rather than an ancient record. If it's a 19th-century text, golden plates aren't necessary, making it "more likely" that the text "flows out of Joseph's literary imagination". Turner emphasizes that this critical examination is not meant to be disrespectful to faithful Latter-day Saints, but rather a serious approach to studying the tradition. The Search for Alternatives: Not Enough Evidence The question of what Joseph might have had in the box has led to various theories: Dan Vogelhas suggested the object might have been made of tin. Sonia Hazard, another scholar, theorizes that Joseph could have encountered printing plates, which served as an inspiration for the project and could have been the object in the box. However, Turner states that there is not enough evidence to support any of these alternative theories. While these are "suggestive possibilities," he concludes, "we can't know. So, I think we have to leave it as a bit of a mystery". He also clarifies that for him, the "absence of evidence for any alternative explanation is [not] evidence for the faithful account". Audacity Over Deception: The Book of Mormon Project Despite his view on the golden plates, Turner doesn't primarily see Joseph Smith as a "fraud," "deceiver," or "impostor". While he acknowledges an "element of deception that gets it off the ground," his main takeaway from the Book of Mormon project is its utter improbability and audacity. Turner describes it as a "hairbrained scheme" that Joseph "pulls off". He points out that it was "utterly unlikely" for a 21-year-old Joseph Smith, without formal education, to embark on such a project and publish a 600-page book. This remarkable literary success, while not a bestseller at the time, certainly had "serious legs". Turner sees this as "an act of audacity" rather than primarily an "act of deception," crediting Joseph Smith with this incredible literary production. Assessing Joseph's Sincerity The question of Joseph Smith's sincerity is complex. Turner generally tries to avoid weighing in on Joseph's sincerity at any given moment,

Fawn Brodie, Richard Bushman, and Dan Vogel have the 3 most popular biographies on Joseph Smith prior to John Turner's latest. Which is best? John will answer that and we'll discuss the First Vision anachronisms. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/BOTVrDQJGbc Don't miss our other conversations with John: https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-turner/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Landscape of Joseph Smith Biographies John Turner is author of "Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet. Dr. Turner's book enters a field rich with extensive scholarship. He notes that the main biographies over the years include Fawn Brodie's "No Man Knows My History," Richard Bushman's "Rough Stone Rolling," and works by Dan Vogel,[1] Richard Van Wagoner,[2] and Martha Bradley.[3] Fawn Brodie's "No Man Knows My History": Published in 1945, Brodie's work is recognized for her "fantastic writing"and remarkable achievement given her limited access to sources available today. While now "out of date,"it was incredibly popular, with Richard Bushman himself acknowledging its enduring "perch" as a favorite among readers, perhaps due to Brodie's skills as an English major and great writer. She was technically Mormon but very critical of Joseph Smith. Richard Bushman's "Rough Stone Rolling": Dr. Turner expresses "enormous admiration"for Richard Bushman as a person and scholar. Bushman's biography "expertly contextualizes Joseph's life in the culture of the early 19th century United States"and benefits from tremendous access to sources, though notably, it predates the availability of the Joseph Smith Papers. Over the last two decades, "Rough Stone Rolling" has become the "go-to biography for any scholar or seriously interested party in Joseph Smith.” Bushman's work was seen as a more "faithful perspective" in contrast to Brodie's critical stance. Dan Vogel's Contributions: Dr. Turner highlights Dan Vogel as a "really diligent researcher"whose "Early Mormon Documents collection"[4] was an "essential resource for historians"before the Joseph Smith Papers. Vogel's works, including "Joseph Smith, The Making of a Prophet" and "Charisma Under Pressure," mark him as "one of the more significant historians of Mormonism" in this generation. While his books may not have achieved the wide readership of Brodie's or Bushman's, their scholarly value is undeniable. Dr. Turner clarifies that he didn't write his biography because existing ones were "inadequate" or "stink.” Instead, he aimed to write a "different one" that might be "better or does justice to different parts of Joseph's personality.” His approach involved immersing himself in the sources, particularly the Joseph Smith Papers volumes and website, and reading the latest scholarship, rather than directly positioning his work against others. He trusted there would be "room for my perspective from my position.” Unpacking Joseph Smith's Early Life When discussing Joseph Smith's early life, Dr. Turner notes a significant challenge: "we know very little" about the period before 1829. Scarcity of Sources: Most of what is known comes from a small number of sources, or at least only a few that detail events. Lucy Mack Smith's Biography: While a "great source,"Lucy Mack Smith's dictated biography from 1844 (decades after many events) is often the "only source we have to go on,"which presents a "little troublesome" limitation. Joseph Smith's Own Accounts: Joseph himself did not discuss his childhood in any great depth in his histories, only occasionally alluding to it in sermons. Conflicting Recollections: Early accounts of Joseph from Palmyra were often "filed up and divergent," coming from individuals who "were not too impressed with Joseph Smith and his family.” No Prefigured Greatness: Dr. Turner emphasizes that "there was nothing that pr...

How did a non-Mormon who teaches in Virginia get interested in Mormon History? John Turner has written the newest biography of Joseph Smith. He is a professor of History at George Mason University and has written not only the pre-eminent biography of Brigham Young, but has a new biography called "Joseph Smith: The Rise & Fall of an American Prophet." We'll discuss both of these amazing biographies and why he chooses to write about these important Mormon figures. Check out our conversation... Don't miss our other conversations with John: https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-turner/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission https://youtu.be/szj5SYdO0wA Dive Deep into Joseph Smith and Brigham Young with Historian John Turner! Are you a fan of Mormon history, science, and theology? Then you won't want to miss the latest interview on Gospel Tangents, featuring renowned East Coast scholar Dr. John Turner. Rick sat down with Dr. Turner to discuss his brand-new book, "Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet," which is set to release on Amazon on June 17th. Meet the Historian: Dr. John Turner Dr. John Turner is a professor at George Mason University in Northern Virginia. Turner's academic journey is quite interesting: He completed his undergraduate degree in History and German at Middlebury College in Vermont. He then pursued his PhD in US History at the University of Notre Dame. Interestingly, he took a detour during his PhD to earn a Master of Divinity at Louisville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, an experience he found helpful for writing about religious experience and doctrine with more information and sensitivity. Turner's interest in Latter-day Saint history was sparked by meeting "extremely winsome and engaging personalities" like Patrick Mason and Matt Grow while at Notre Dame. He also realized that the Latter-day Saint story was a bit of local history for him, having grown up near Palmyra, New York, "where it all began." Although his dissertation focused on American evangelicalism, he sought to learn new things for his second project and found the Joseph Smith and Brigham Young eras "so fascinating.” Non-Mormon Scholar's Perspective on Mormon History Dr. Turner has authored multiple books on Mormonism, including "Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet" and "The Mormon Jesus," in addition to his new Joseph Smith biography. As a non-Mormon (he identifies as Trinitarian), Turner notes a key difference in his approach: he can express his conclusions and share his findings without worrying about "an ecclesiastical reaction" or "getting excommunicated," which might be a concern for Latter-day Saint scholars. He is "pretty single-minded" when working on a book, focusing on one project at a time. Inspiration Behind the Joseph Smith Biography Turner found it "a really good time to take on a Jo Smith biography"11. His primary motivations for writing about Joseph Smith, especially after his Brigham Young book, were twofold12: Engaging Foundational Questions: Writing about Brigham Young allowed him to largely "take for granted" core beliefs and events, but with Joseph Smith, it was an "opportunity and a challenge to return to that... foundational time period" and "engage some hard questions". These include questions about golden plates, divine messages, and Joseph's motivations for plural marriage. Joseph Smith as a Biographical Subject: Turner describes Joseph Smith as a "great biographical subject" – a "mirthful, colorful man" who is "energetic and dynamic." His public life, spanning essentially 15 years, was "packed" with events, demanding a "fast-paced story". Turner also lavishes praise on the Joseph Smith Papers project, calling it "fantastic" and an "enormously useful" resource that provided a "huge head start" due to its accurate transcriptions, images,

What do Land Deeds in Nauvoo have to do with D&C 132? It turns out there is a controversy where an argument is made for and against 132 being legit vs forgery. Mary Ann Clements weighs in on the controversy. Check out our conversation with Mary Ann about her chapter in Secret Covenants... Sign up to our free newsletter!  https://gospeltangents.com/newsletter https://youtu.be/s2zWvjVzQbA Don't miss our other conversations with Mary Ann: https://gospeltangents.com/people/mary-ann-clements/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission How Nauvoo Land Deeds Shed Light on Mormon Polygamy Debates At the heart of some of current polygamy discussions lies the authenticity of historical documents, particularly the William Clayton Journal. Recent research delving into Nauvoo land deeds offers fascinating insights, not only into Joseph Smith's financial dealings but also into the controversy surrounding early polygamy. Mary Ann Clemens, one of the authors in "Secret Covenants: New Insights into Mormon Polygamy," highlights how land deeds have become a focal point for both proving and disproving claims about Joseph Smith's early practice of polygamy. The William Clayton Journal: Forgery or Validation? One of the central debates in skeptical circles concerns whether the William Clayton Journal is a forgery. Mary Ann Clemens disagrees with this argument. Her reasoning, and the focus of her recent research, involves the detailed examination of Nauvoo land deeds, specifically those made on July 12, 1843, to Emma Smith. Don Bradley's Argument for Validation: According to Don Bradley, the July 12, 1843 deeds to Emma Smith serve as an element that confirms or validates the William Clayton diaries. This date is significant because it's the day the polygamy revelation (Section 132) was written. The traditional narrative suggests that Hyrum Smith attempted to convince Emma of polygamy that day, but Emma vehemently denied it. As a result of this conversation, a decision was made to deed Emma all the unencumbered lots in Nauvoo. William Clayton's journal, a couple of days later, corroborates this, mentioning the drawing up of the deed and giving Emma the lots. The deeds were initially recorded in the Nauvoo Register book in 1843 by William Clayton himself, which some skeptics distrust due to his involvement. However, in July 1844, just after Joseph Smith's death, these deeds were also recorded in the Hancock County deed records, providing an independent record that, from Bradley's perspective, confirms the story in Clayton's journal. The Skeptic's Counter-Argument: Michelle Stone's Research Despite the evidence, some see these same deeds as disproving William Clayton's journal. Michelle Stone's research unearthed a fascinating detail: A July 12, 1843 draft deed to Hyrum Smith: Stone discovered a deed, dated July 12, 1843, that was fully written out but never signed or completed. This draft was intended for Joseph Smith's brother, Hyrum, and listed many of the same properties that were later deeded to Emma. Stone argues that because there's no explanation for why Hyrum was receiving these properties, it couldn't have been related to polygamy. She questions why the Joseph Smith Papers project labeled this a "draft." Why "Draft"? And the True Story Behind the Deeds Mary Ann Clemens provides clarification, agreeing with the "draft" designation for several reasons: The draft deed to Hyrum had Hyrum's name scratched out and Emma's name written in on the back.. It was never signed or recorded anywhere. Another draft deed to Emma, also dated July 12, was found. This one listed an extra lot not on county records and didn't finish the boilerplate language. These drafts are critical. While people like Michelle Stone argue they represent distinct transactions or prove deception,

Many scholars have made the claim that the polygamy revelation in D&C 132 is really 4 different revelations mashed into one. Does David Hocking agree? We will discuss that revelation, along with the revelation that says Lehi landed in Chile. David is a Heartlander. Does he agree? We'll discuss his book, "Revelations of Joseph Smith." Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/HR2NovCIj7E Don't miss our other conversations with David Hocking: http://gospeltangents.com/people/david-hocking Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.   Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

We'll discuss changes in revelations for the Doctrine & Covenants and JST.  Joseph Smith got a revelation to get a Canadian copyright for the Book of Mormon. It didn't succeed. Is this a failed revelation? David Hocking weighs in on that uncanonized revelation in his new book "The Revelations of Joseph Smith." Check out our conversation.. https://youtu.be/5WdAr21wooI Don't miss our other conversations with David Hocking: http://gospeltangents.com/people/david-hocking Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission. 0:00 Book of Mormon Canadian Copyright 12:45 Changes in Revelations 16:47 JST Bible What You'll Find in "The Revelations of Joseph Smith" Hocking's primary focus in this book is on Joseph Smith's personal revelations and history, as published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints between 1902 and 1912, chosen specifically because it is in the public domain. He intentionally does not include revelations attributed to later church leaders like Brigham Young or Joseph F. Smith, nor does he include the official declarations (OD 1 & 2) or the section about the martyrdom, as these were not Joseph Smith's revelations. Key features and inclusions in the book: Uncanonized Revelations: The book features revelations that are not part of the standard Doctrine and Covenants. A notable example is the revelation concerning the Canadian copyright for the Book of Mormon, which, although controversial because the attempt to secure the copyright was unsuccessful, is included as it is part of Joseph Smith's history. Color-Coded Text for Voices: To enhance understanding, Hocking uses a unique color-coding system for different voices: ◦ Red text signifies direct speech from God (Heavenly Father, Holy Spirit, or Jesus Christ). For instance, the Canadian copyright revelation is shown in red, indicating it's the voice of Heavenly Father. ◦ Blue text is used for words spoken by angels.Blue text also indicates quoted scripture, such as sections where the Lord quotes Isaiah, helping readers identify the source of the text. Multiple First Vision Accounts: The book compiles various versions of Joseph Smith's First Vision accounts, including the 1832, 1835, and the 1842 Wentworth letter version, offering a comprehensive view of these foundational spiritual experiences. Patriarchal Blessings: Hocking includes patriarchal blessings given to Joseph Smith and Emma Smith. This includes Joseph Sr.'s blessing to his son, Joseph Jr., where Joseph of Egypt is quoted, highlighted in blue to denote quoted scripture and structured poetically for readability. Emma Smith's patriarchal blessing is also included, rendered in red text, indicating it as a revelation from the Lord's voice. Oliver Cowdery's Revelation to Joseph: A particularly moving inclusion is a blessing given by Oliver Cowdery to Joseph Smith, which Oliver received as a revelation. The Book of Mormon Printing Miracle: Hocking delves into the intricate process and efforts required to publish the Book of Mormon, detailing the "mechanism" and "lot of work that went into it.” Correlation between Joseph Smith and Enoch: The book explores the connections and correlations between Joseph Smith's experiences and the biblical figure of Enoch. The Joseph Smith Translation (JST) of the Bible Hocking has also published a book on the Joseph Smith Translation (JST), also known as the Inspired Version of the Bible. Joseph Smith viewed this work as a direct commandment from God, a "branch of his calling," to make "updates or corrections" to the Old and New Testaments. Key aspects of Hocking's JST book: Revelation-Driven Process: The JST process began with revelations like the Vision of Moses (a prologue to Genesis) and the Prophecy of Enoch, which significantly expand on what's found in traditional Old Testament.

We'll discuss the revelations from 1834-1838 including the uncanonized Zelph Revelation. In 1834, Joseph Smith changed the name of the church from Church of Christ to Church of the Latter Day Saints. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/ogCyg94XghM Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Uncanonized Zelph Revelation One particularly intriguing inclusion in Hocking's book, treated as a revelation although not canonized by the LDS Church today, is the account of Zelph. This account originates from Joseph Smith's history and details an experience while roving over the plains of the Nephites during Zion's Camp. Joseph Smith described discovering a skeleton. Through a vision or revelation, he understood that the person was "a white Lamanite, a large thick set man, and a man of God" named Zelph. Zelph was identified as "a warrior and a chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus who named from the eastern sea." The eastern sea is likened to Lake Ontario. The account describes Zelph's injuries, including a broken side caused by a stone from a sling and death from an arrow found among his ribs during a battle. Hocking notes that B.H. Roberts, in a book written before his involvement with History of the Church, also discussed Zion's Camp passing mysterious earth mounds, which Roberts suggested were related to the Nephites, Lamanites, or people of Jared. Hocking sees Joseph Smith's account of finding Zelph as a way of demonstrating a physical witness of the Book of Mormon peoples. Joseph Smith, having provided the spiritual testimony through the translated book, was now offering a physical witness for those on the journey. Those who went on Zion's Camp reportedly stayed faithful, potentially due to this physical witness. While the story of Zelph might seem "fantastical" to some, and perhaps for this reason it hasn't been canonized by the modern LDS church, Hocking includes it because Joseph Smith presented it as a revelation where the heavens were opened and the Almighty gave him understanding. Later Revelations and Profound Connections Moving into the later period (1838-1843), which includes the Nauvoo temple era, Hocking's book covers 20 revelations. He also includes statements from Joseph Smith that he treats "as if they're revelations because they're statements." One powerful example is found in what is now Section 128 of the Doctrine and Covenants. While in hiding, Joseph Smith wrote a letter to the church about baptisms for the dead. Within this letter, he includes what Hocking calls a "poetical utterance," similar to passages in Nephi or Lehi. Joseph Smith speaks of glad tidings from Cumorah and Moroni, the voices of Peter, James, and John on the banks of the Mississippi, the voice of the Heavenly Father, and significantly, the voices of Michael the archangel, Gabriel, Raphael, and "diverse angels from Michael or Adam down to the present time." These angels are described as declaring their dispensations, rights, honors, keys, majesty, glory, and priesthood power. Hocking found this section particularly striking after studying the Book of Enoch, which features conversations with Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael. He posits that Joseph Smith is a "new Enoch," drawing parallels between their lives. Furthermore, Hocking discovered profound correlations between Joseph Smith's translation work and other ancient texts. He highlights the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis 18, where three men who visit Abraham are identified as "angels which were holy men and they were sent after the order of God," in contrast to the King James Version which simply calls them "three men". Comparing this to the Book of Jasher (published 10 years after Joseph Smith's revelation), Hocking found a passage stating, "and the Lord appeared unto him at the plain and sent three of his ministering angels." Delving deeper,

David Hocking has put together several Annotated Scriptures. We'll discuss his latest book, which is sort of an Annotated Doctrine & Covenants. It is called "The Revelations of Joseph Smith." We'll also discuss his previous books, and dive into revelations on the coming forth of the Book of Mormon & the Church of Christ. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/JjvC2RZtJrM Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission David Hocking, described as a "scripture publisher" and editor, who is known for reformatting traditional scriptural texts to help readers engage with them more smoothly. By taking the existing text and applying specific elements and styles, Hocking aims to guide the reader and provide additional context and research. His books are often described as a "studied" version of the scripture. Hocking's process involves doing research on words or phrases that appeal to him, highlighting them in a gold color, and then providing additional information in a golden shaded box at the bottom of the page. His journey in scripture publishing began in the '90s when he started reformatting the Book of Mormon for his own use. This eventually led to the Annotated Edition of the Book of Mormon, which incorporated research, including information from the Heartland perspective. This book has been quite successful, with close to 40,000 copies sold and is available through Deseret Book. Following the Book of Mormon, Hocking worked on the Book of Jasher. He clarified that "Jasher" is a title, "Sephur Hayasher," meaning "the book of the upright," and the proper spelling should be Yashar. Interestingly, he notes that there are excerpts of the Book of Jasher in the Book of Mormon, brought over on the plates of brass. This led to a brief discussion on the language of the Book of Mormon, suggesting that Nephi likely learned Demotic Egyptian, a condensed, script-like form, in addition to Hebrew, and that "reformed Egyptian" might refer to a reformed Demotic Egyptian. He also touched on the difference between the Anthon Transcript (described by Martin Harris) and the Caracters Document in John Whitmer's handwriting (which the Church has recently acquired). He noted that handwriting analysis, specifically looking at the cursive "D" with a flourish common in German script, can help identify scribes like John Whitmer in early documents, including sections of the Book of Mormon original manuscript and the Revelation books. He also offered a perspective on the two sets of witnesses (three spiritual, eight physical) and the possibility they saw different sets of plates (the plates in the stone box vs. plates in a repository, potentially the small plates used to replace the lost Book of Lehi pages)10. Other books Hocking has edited include the Book of Isaiah, undertaken as part of the "11th commandment" to diligently search Isaiah. He sent a copy to Dr. Avraham Gileadi, a prominent LDS Isaiah scholar, who liked it. (Incidentally, the host mentioned NT Wright would be speaking on Isaiah in Houston, Texas). Hocking also worked on the Joseph Smith Translation (JST) of the New Testament. For this, he put Joseph Smith's contributions in brackets, using the 1867 first edition text. He mentioned that the Church itself is likely to release a fully done version of the JST in the coming years. He has a new version of his JST New Testament coming out soon as a red-letter edition. He noted that while red-letter Bibles (where the words of Christ are in red) are common elsewhere, they are less familiar in Utah. Another critical project was the Book of Enoch, which he believes explains why Enoch is an important figure and why the Lord referred to him in Moses 6 & 7 and D&C 107. He suggests that Joseph Smith himself became a modern-day Enoch, teaching and building a city of righteousness/Zion. Hocking's latest book,

History was made Sunday night in Independence, Missouri. The Community of Christ gathered for the election and ordination of the 1st female prophet president in Community of Christ. It was a a momentous occasion. The focus of the event was Stassi Cramm, who was anticipated to take on this significant leadership role, following Steven Veazey's retirement. She will be the 1st female prophet-president of Community of Christ, and just the 2nd female leader of a Restoration Church since Pauline Hancock. https://youtu.be/PFtd6ysXpNs Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission I was surprised that they formally dissolved the First Presidency, before the nomination process moved forward. (That seemed like an LDS thing to do to counter Sidney Rigdon's claim to the presidency.) Following that procedure, the conference was turned over to the president of the Council of Twelve, Mareva Arnaud Tchong (a French-speaking Tahitian woman) who led the conference through the succession process. In one of the Saturday sessions, Stassi Cramm formally accepted her nomination. Leading up to the vote, which was scheduled for 2:00 PM Central time, discussions were held in quorum caucus meetings. While it was acknowledged that there might be some opposition or abstentions, there was strong anticipation of support for Stassi Cramm, with reports of full support from the evangelists quorum and no opposition reported in the high priests quorum, though some abstentions occurred. It was speculated that the vote could be a slam dunk, indicating overwhelming support. I would estimate that 95+% of the delegates voted in favor of Stassi's ordination. There were a few who voted in opposition. 1st Female Prophet-President The anticipation culminated in the official proceedings. On June 1st, 2025, Stassi Cramm was officially sustained during the 2 pm session, and ordained prophet president of the Community of Christ during a 7 pm session. This moment was described as an “amazing service” that was “spirit-filled.” This ordination marks a truly historic milestone for the Community of Christ, as Stassi Cramm becomes the first female prophet president for the church. It should be noted that Stassi is not the first female to lead a restoration group. Pauline Hancock is noted as the first female leader in the restoration movement. Stassi Cramm holds this specific title for the Community of Christ. Following the ordination, a rousing anthem was sung by the congregation, “A Spirit of God Like a Fire is Burning,” with special emphasis of “We'll sing, and we'll SHOUT with the armies of heaven.” It was quite a moment. The theme of the week was is “to have hope,” and Stassi Cramm's leadership is seen as potentially sparking that hope further, encouraging members not to give up on the church or its doctrines. Stassi comes in at a tough financial time in the church, which sold off the Kirtland Temple and significant Nauvoo properties. She will have a tough time righting the financial ship as tithe payers age and younger members haven't been stepping up to support the church. The conference will continue through the rest of the week as delegates vote 6 new apostles (to replace retiring or apostles moving onto other callings) and several resolutions dealing with copyrighted works, the Holy Land, stewardship of church properties, reviewing bylaws, climate emergency, confiscation of monies in AIP accounts, sale of church properties, bicentennial D&C/Book of Mormon, and reducing gun violence. Delegates will vote to amend, affirm or oppose these resolutions this coming week. At any rate, the week started off with a celebration of Stassi Cramm's ordination as new prophet president. What are your thoughts on the news? Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

Joseph Fielding Smith is the architect of controversial LDS orthodoxy. He has some controversial writings about Blacks and Ezra Taft Benson. We'll also delve into his role with Lowell Bennion, a BYU professor who was fired. Was JFS responsible or was it someone else? Matthew Bowman answers. We'll also dive into his role in shaping orthodoxy in the 20th century. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/toqjRr1B8Eo Joseph Fielding Smith: Architect of Controversial LDS Orthodoxy Joseph Fielding Smith described as a "lightning rod" due to some views considered politically incorrect today, particularly regarding race. Dr. Matt Bowman, author of "Joseph Fielding Smith, a Mormon Theologian," sheds light on Smith's impact on the church. One of the most uncomfortable aspects of Smith's legacy is his writings about Black individuals, especially concerning the priesthood. In his work, The Way to Perfection, Smith explicitly stated his subscription to the theory that people of African descent were less righteous in the pre-existence. He used language suggesting they were "not entitled to be born white." Smith was a staunch "defender of the racial restrictions" in the Church and became a major exponent of the idea, which the source traces back to Orson Hyde, that Black people possessed souls less righteous in the pre-existence. This stance led to prominent public clashes, notably with church educator Lowell Bennion at a symposium in the early 1950s. Their argument over the ban contributed to Bennion's eventual dismissal by Ernest Wilkinson, who was president of BYU and commissioner of church education. Wilkinson viewed Bennion as too liberal on race and saw Smith as an ally in this regard. While Wilkinson was the person who carried out the dismissal, the collision with Fielding Smith helped instigate the decision. Disagreement with Benson Smith also had complex relationships, even with those seen as ideologically sympathetic. Despite being viewed as a fellow conservative, Smith had significant disagreements with Ezra Taft Benson. A letter from Smith exists in which he hoped Benson's "blood will be purified" upon his return from a mission in Europe in the 1960s. Smith was skeptical of the Church becoming heavily involved in American politics, viewing Benson's fascination with politics as distasteful and inappropriate for an apostle. He considered it "unseemly" and "disreputable." Smith also saw Benson as a conspiracy theorist, distinguishing standard conservative politics (like that of Dwight Eisenhower or David McKay) from conspiracy theory. Smith hoped Benson's time away would rid him of these inclinations, allowing him to return as an apostle rather than an aspiring amateur politician. This highlights that "real deep divides" can exist even within the conservative camp. Controversial LDS Orthodoxy Perhaps Smith's most enduring theological contribution was his role in developing the idea of orthodoxy within the Latter-day Saint tradition. Orthodoxy, an older Protestant concept particularly associated with John Calvin, posits that being a faithful member requires believing certain things and that incorrect beliefs can jeopardize salvation. This was not a central idea in the early Christian Church's first century. Smith, possibly influenced by Protestant fundamentalism, began insisting in the mid-20th century that belief is actually really important and that believing "the correct ideas" were crucial because incorrect beliefs could "ruin your salvation." He defended this notion vigorously. Historically, while early Christianity saw debates over ideas like the Trinity, and Roman Catholicism emphasized sacraments and art for teaching, the strong push for average members to understand and adhere to correct doctrine emerged from the Reformed Protestant tradition. Smith's emphasis on orthodoxy gained significant traction in the church. When he became President, many members of the Quorum of the Twelve were individuals he ...

Joseph Fielding Smith, a towering figure in the 20th-century Latter-day Saint landscape, is often remembered as a theologian and Church leader. But his long tenure as Church Historian also positioned him as a key interpreter of Mormon history, an area where his approach offers a fascinating case study in the relationship between faith, perspective, and the writing of the past. Our recent discussion drawing from the sources explored this complex legacy, highlighting Smith's contributions alongside critical insights into the nature of historical objectivity and bias. https://youtu.be/EyAoFsz9mn0 Church Historian When Joseph Fielding Smith became Church Historian, he faced the significant challenge of organizing sprawling, uncatalogued collections. He initiated processes that professionalized the church archives, particularly after World War II, by creating finding aids, dividing materials into collections, making lists, and microfilming documents. However, from the perspective of a professional academic historian, Smith's method of engaging with historical sources differed markedly. He treated certain documents, like the Bible and those produced by figures he considered revelators such as Joseph Smith Jr. and Joseph F. Smith, as entirely reliable and didn't subject them to critical interrogation. This lack of "suspicion of sources"—the practice of asking who wrote a document, when, and what biases they might have—is highlighted as a key distinction between Smith and professional academics. His influential book, Essentials in Church History, exemplifies this approach, treating "official LDS sources" uncritically, yet it became a foundational text shaping LDS understanding of their history for decades. This brings us to a core concept in academic historical study: the non-existence of "objective history." Writing academic history itself is considered a bias. The aim for professional historians is not to eliminate bias, which is seen as impossible, but rather to be acutely aware of bias—both in the sources they use and in their own perspectives—and to account for it in their work. This requires adhering to methods and principles developed over generations of scholarship. Mature scholarship involves being frank about one's own point of view and how it might influence interpretations. Trying to pretend one is objective is seen as a mistake. Richard Bushman is presented as an example of a scholar who openly discusses his background and how it might shape his work. RLDS Polygamy Skeptics The sources also reveal how bias can influence not just conclusions, but the very questions a historian thinks to ask—or doesn't ask. While "motivated reasoning" (steering sources to a predetermined conclusion) exists, it might be less common than bias manifesting in the kinds of questions that arise from a historian's background and positionality. The discussion used the example of Richard and Pamela Price's hypothesis regarding the influence of Cochranites on the Quorum of the Twelve and the practice of polygamy. While the Prices found evidence of contact between the groups, they reportedly don't account for the significant chronological gap between this contact and the public announcement of polygamy. This failure to ask about or explain this gap is suggested as stemming from their predisposition to believe the Quorum of the Twelve were the originators of polygamy. Most Influential Writer Joseph Fielding Smith was a prolific writer. Beyond Essentials in Church History, other notable works include The Way to Perfection, a narrative history of humanity from pre-existence to afterlife, where he explicitly stated his views on race. He also authored Man His Origin and Destiny (1954), which he considered his most important book, responding to higher criticism of the Bible and the theory of evolution. Perhaps his most widely read work during his lifetime was his "My Question" column in the Improvement Era church magazine,

Joseph Fielding Smith: evolution was not something he thought highly of. The son of Joseph F. Smith and grandson of Hyrum Smith, was a prominent figure in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As an apostle from 1910 and later Church President, he became known for his strong defense of traditional doctrines, often clashing with those who sought to reconcile faith with modern scientific and academic thought. https://youtu.be/8Kq1TVQBQtE Don't miss our other conversations about this book! https://gospeltangents.com/lds_people_historical/joseph-fielding-smith/ Joseph Fielding Smith Evolution One of the most famous conflicts involved the theory of evolution and the age of the Earth. Smith staunchly opposed the idea of an old earth, particularly the notion of human-like creatures or pre-Adamites living before Adam and Eve. His core objection wasn't simply to evolution itself, but to the idea that there could have been death before the Fall of Adam and Eve. Smith believed that death entered the world because of the Fall, and if death existed before then, it would undermine the necessity and efficacy of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. This principle of no death before the Fall was central to his arguments. This perspective led to direct clashes with contemporaries like James E. Talmage and John A. Widtsoe, who were generally more open to scientific ideas. The most notable dispute involved B.H. Roberts's book manuscript, The Truth, The Way, The Life, which attempted to reconcile a very old Earth and the possibility of pre-Adamites with the Genesis account. Roberts proposed that Adam and Eve were the first humans with souls, not necessarily the first biological humans. As a member of the church's publications committee, Smith absolutely rejected Roberts's ideas, protesting their publication to the Quorum of the Twelve and the First Presidency. While this conflict brewed behind the scenes, Smith publicly denounced the idea of an old Earth and pre-Adamites in a speech. In response, Talmage gave a talk endorsing the possibility of an older Earth, highlighting some public disagreement among church leaders. Ultimately, the First Presidency chose not to endorse either side and requested both men cease public conflict on the issue, preventing Roberts's book from being published at that time. Smith, however, outlived many of his contemporaries and later published his own book, Man His Origin and Destiny, which strongly attacked Darwinism and the higher criticism of the Bible. Family Trauma Smith's career as a defender of traditional beliefs was significantly shaped by his upbringing and early experiences. His father, Joseph F. Smith, was called to testify before Congress during the Reed Smoot hearings. During these hearings, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (RLDS), led by descendants of Joseph Smith Jr., saw an opportunity. Richard Evans, an RLDS apostle, issued broadsides accusing the LDS Church of corruption, denouncing Brigham Young for originating polygamy and blood atonement, and claiming the RLDS Church was the true successor to Joseph Smith. This became a "family feud.” Joseph F. Smith was infuriated and asked his son, Joseph Fielding Smith, to refute Richard Evans. This charge launched Joseph Fielding Smith into a career of research and writing, focusing on apologetics – the defense of religious beliefs. He published pamphlets refuting Evans, arguing that polygamy originated with Joseph Smith Jr., not Brigham Young. This pamphlet feud led to exchanges in newspaper op-ed pages and solidified Smith's path. He began working in the Church Historian's office during this time and soon became Church Historian, serving for decades until he became Church President in 1970. Fight with Academics His long tenure as Church Historian meant he had significant influence. Unlike contemporaries like Talmage, Widtsoe, Joseph Merrill, Adam Bennion, and B.H.

Dr. Matthew Bowman has just released a new biography on Joseph Fielding Smith. Bowman is the Howard W. Hunter Chair of Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University in Claremont, California. The Mormon Studies chair Bowman holds at Claremont Graduate University is the oldest in the country, having been established over 15 years ago. Bowman is the third person to hold the chair, following Richard Bushman and Patrick Mason. Patrick Mason left Claremont to take the chair at Utah State University. https://youtu.be/6VrK15TQVcY Don't miss our other episodes with Dr Matthew Bowman! https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission. Mormon Studies Other Mormon studies chairs exist at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley (held by Deidre J Green), and the University of Virginia. Although not directly affiliated with Claremont, the late Jan Shipps is credited with making the study of the Mormon tradition a legitimate academic pursuit for those outside the tradition, enabling universities like Claremont without historical ties to Mormonism to establish such a chair. Before the endowed chair, Anne Taves, a professor interested in Mormonism, taught American religious history at CGU, and Armand Mauss was involved in fundraising and occasionally taught classes. Introductions to Mormon Thought Bowman is also involved in the "Introductions to Mormon Thought" book series, which he co-edits with Joseph Spencer. Published by the University of Illinois, the series aims to stimulate the growth of Mormon intellectual history through accessible introductory volumes on important Mormon thinkers. The series broadly defines "Mormon thinkers" to include artists like CCA Christensen and Minerva Teichert, alongside more traditional intellectuals. The books are intended to be short, accessible, and explore how these individuals influenced how members of the Mormon tradition understood themselves. The series uses the term "Mormon" intentionally broadly to encompass all denominations and movements originating from Joseph Smith's work, including fundamentalist Mormons and figures from the Community of Christ. While initially planned for 10-15 books, the series is doing well and is expected to continue. Other volumes in the series cover figures such as Eugene England (by Christine Hagund), Vardis Fisher (by Mike Austin), Sonia Johnson (by Chris Talbot), Lowell Bennion (by George Handley), Hugh Nibley (by Joseph Spencer), and Richard Bushman (by JB Haws). A future volume is planned on Eliza R. Snow (by Deidre Green), and Bowman hopes for one on Sheri Dew. Joseph Fielding Smith Bowman chose to write his book in the series about Joseph Fielding Smith, though his initial interest was in Bruce R. McConkie. He agreed to write about Smith instead to secure another author's participation in the series. Bowman views Joseph Fielding Smith as Bruce R. McConkie's intellectual parent and considers him the most significant LDS theologian of the 20th century, leaving a deeper and more persistent mark than others like James E. Talmage. While McConkie was influential, Bowman sees him more as a systematizer of his father-in-law's ideas rather than being an original. Other significant 20th/21st-century Mormon thinkers mentioned include B.H. Roberts, Margarita Bautista, Sheri Dew, and Leverne Parmley.. A significant fact about Joseph Fielding Smith is that he was the grandson of Hyrum Smith and the son of Joseph F. Smith. Bowman emphasizes that being a "Smith" was incredibly important to Fielding Smith, shaping his sense of duty and responsibility to continue his family's work. His memories of his father and uncle's violent deaths and his father's need to hide from federal marshals profoundly influenced him, fostering a sense of defensiveness and a perception that the world was hostile and persecuted the family f...

In our final conversation with Dr Margaret Toscano, we'll discuss the chapter in Sara Patterson's book, "The Sept 6 & the Struggle for the Soul of Mormonism." Margaret will discuss her and her husband Paul's reaction to Sara's descriptions of them in the book. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/LqxYh6QHY3E Don't miss our other conversations about the Sept Six: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/sept-six/ Copyright © 2024 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Beyond the Sept 6 More than two decades after the events known as the "Sept 6," Margaret Toscano offers a candid look back, reflecting on the pain of excommunication, the evolution of her personal beliefs, and how she and her husband, Paul Toscano, hope to be remembered beyond that defining moment. Margaret highlights what she feels Patterson's book misses about her and others' journeys since 2003. Toscano reveals that her 2003 interview, featured in the book, captured a time of significant pain. Being kicked out of one's church, even for someone who might not be a "Believer," is deeply painful, particularly when it's tied to one's heritage and family, a sentiment she notes is also true for others like David Wright. She is proud of her ability to navigate that pain and notes the documentation of it in the book is important. Contrary to advice she received to simply "walk away" from Mormonism to heal, Toscano felt compelled to stay engaged. She identifies as Mormon, distinguishing this from being LDS (a member of the LDS Church), and views it as her ethnicity and heritage. This identity is crucial to her, and she has continued to write, research, and discuss Mormon issues, currently working on a book about Heavenly Mother.. Over the past twenty years, Toscano's spiritual journey has evolved. While not a "true believing Mormon," she has reached a point where she can openly say she is a Believer on some level, a stance she felt ashamed of years ago. Her ideas of God are complex and not aligned with traditional Mormon views, but she believes in God, an afterlife, and the soul. She describes herself as a "skeptic believer," a person who doubts everything but has also had experiences that affirm her faith. Crucially, she feels able to claim her spirituality openly, something she couldn't do as easily two decades prior. She asserts that being a scholar and an intellectual is compatible with having faith. A major point of reflection for Toscano is the legacy she and Paul desire. They explicitly state they do not want the September Six to be the sole definition of who they were. Margaret doesn't want to be remembered "simply as a dissident," nor does Paul want to be remembered simply as one of the Sept 6. Toscano highlights that Paul's faith journey continued significantly after 2007, when the book reportedly leaves him having lost his faith. Paul has since "found his faith again," seeing himself as a Mormon Christian with a deep testimony of Jesus Christ, which informs his interpretation of the Book of Mormon and his extensive writing. Margaret is immensely proud of Paul's intellectual output, which includes some fifteen books—theology, memoir, novels, essays, and more. She wishes for him to be remembered primarily as a "man of Mormon letters," an important Mormon intellectual, and a brilliant writer. As for herself, Toscano hopes to be remembered as an important Mormon scholar and a beloved teacher at the University of Utah, emphasizing her continued work and care for the Mormon community. She underscores the importance of remembering and being remembered, noting her critique that the book overlooks the continued contributions and experiences of many involved in the 1993 events, including her own work and relationships since 2003. Toscano also touches on the changes she's observed in Mormon studies and at the Sunstone conference, where she was a frequent participant for decades..

I asked about Peggy Fletcher Stack's opinion. Central to Peggy's thirty-plus-year career is her unwavering commitment to journalistic ethics and objectivity. https://youtu.be/yFqxStPt0NA Remember, this is a secret episode. Sign up at gospeltangents.com/newsletter to get the link to the secret episode emailed to you. Don't miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Peggy Fletcher Stack's Opinion She is asked daily about her personal faith but maintains it is "not for public disclosure," stating she is a "person of faith" who respects others but keeps her own private. She firmly believes a credible journalist cannot be an opinion writer. She actively avoids expressing personal opinions on politics or religion in her reporting or on social media. While her choice of stories and sources reveals focus, she strives for neutrality in her own voice. This commitment means she receives criticism from all sides, even noting she gets "more hate mail than our sports reporters." She highlights the challenge that some readers and even sources don't grasp why journalists don't simply adopt a specific viewpoint or give the LDS Church the "last word." She explains her approach to sourcing often prioritizes current "stakeholders" within a faith community for present-day issues, while respecting former members' perspectives on their personal journeys but finding them less ideal sources for current church affairs. Dramatic Transformation in Journalism The conversation also underscores the dramatic transformation in journalism brought by the internet. Contrasting with her early freelance days in Kenya where in-person interviews and library research were essential, online resources now make research significantly easier. However, this ease has contributed to journalism becoming a 24/7 job, with constant demands and potentially less emphasis on crucial in-person reporting. Peggy cautions that younger reporters can sometimes mistake online "buzz" for broad public concern, stressing the importance of understanding what "average believers in the pew" are discussing. Peggy also touched on the dramatic transformation in journalism due to the internet, contrasting her early freelance days in Kenya with the 24/7 nature of reporting today. While online resources make research easier, the constant demand and decreased emphasis on in-person reporting present new challenges. Despite these challenges and the constant criticism, Peggy finds her job exciting, enjoying the process of analyzing and connecting the dots. She has no immediate plans to retire, suggesting the 2034 Olympics as a potential bookend for her career since her first story coincided with Salt Lake's losing the 1998 Olympic bid to Japan. Why Her Faith is Off-Limits Stepping back into the conversation with Peggy Fletcher Stack of the Salt Lake Tribune, the discussion moved beyond her career origins to highlight the core principle for Peggy is journalistic ethics and objectivity. She firmly believes a credible journalist cannot be an opinion writer. She gets asked daily about her own faith but maintains it's not for public disclosure, as her role is to report fairly on all faiths. She consciously avoids expressing her personal opinions on politics or religion in her reporting or on social media. While her choice of stories and sources reveals focus, she strives for neutrality in her own voice. She illustrated the challenge of this by describing how people, including some within the LDS Churc don't always understand why journalists don't simply adopt a specific viewpoint or give one source the "last word." This commitment to reporting on conflict, even when it's sensitive, means she receives criticism from all sides, sometimes even more hate mail than sports reporters. Do you agree with why Peggy Fletcher Stack's opinion is not for public consumption.

We discuss 2 important moments in Peggy Fletcher Stack's career: "We don't apologize," and "What about the women? Peggy Fletcher Stack is the senior religion reporter at the Salt Lake Tribune. The focus of the conversation turns to the persistent challenges within religious coverage and the dramatic evolution of the journalistic landscape itself. For Peggy, certain topics consistently emerge as central "pressure points" or "conflicts." Drawing on Apostle Boyd K. Packer's 1993 speech, she observes that issues surrounding feminists, gays, and intellectuals have dominated her reporting because, as she puts it, journalists cover "planes that crash," not "planes that land on time." https://youtu.be/KmaKAKKtyH4 Don't miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved LGBTQ+ Issues She highlights the continued intensity of LGBTQ+ issues, noting they remain "very very hot." Her archive reveals nearly 700 articles containing the word "gay," underscoring its consistent prominence. While public protests on issues like ordination might have decreased since events like Kate Kelly's excommunication, Peggy firmly states that gender issues have "absolutely not died down," citing ongoing concerns among younger women and pushes on topics like allowing young women to pass the sacrament or women sitting on the stand. "We Don't Apologize" Moment Peggy Fletcher Stack recalls a meeting with Apostles Todd Christofferson and Dallen H. Oaks around the time the church was announcing a "compromise" on LGBTQ+ issues. She asked them, in the context of trying to promote civil discourse, if the church would ever apologize for the rhetoric of some members on this topic as a way to improve civility. Elder Oaks responded directly, "No. We never apologize." Peggy notes that this response to a specific question was later interpreted by some as being a statement of general church policy, which she clarified was not the case. She also mentions that Elder Oaks repeated a similar sentiment on a video podcast (Trib Talk no longer exists), stating that apology "isn't in the Bible," which caused a "huge flap" and led to people blaming her, the messenger. She said this illustrates how something said can come to be seen as policy. The "What About the Women?" Question Peggy describes a press conference in January or February 2018 with President Russell M. Nelson and Elder Oaks where reporters were limited to one question each. Peggy had prepared a question asking what would be done to increase diversity in leadership, specifically mentioning "women, people of color, and non-Americans." President Nelson's initial response was to focus on his personal connection to Peggy and her family, an "awkward moment" for her. After speaking about non-Americans, and feeling they were finishing their answer without addressing women, Peggy, despite the one-question limit, called out from her seat, "What about women?" President Nelson then spoke about loving women, highlighting his daughters and mothers. Peggy characterized this moment, which occurred on live KSL TV, as a "weird existential moment" balancing the personal and professional. Ironically, she felt it ended up being a "win-win" for her, as critics from different perspectives interpreted the interaction in ways that subtly improved her standing with them. Don't miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved  

Peggy Fletcher Stack highlights her biggest interviews, significant moments, and enduring themes of her three decades covering religion. Peggy's career at the Salt Lake Tribune has intersected with pivotal historical events and figures. She covered sensitive issues like Catholic abuse and the aftermath of 9/11, immediately being assigned to interview Utah Muslims. She shared a moving story of a young Muslim boy named Osama who faced bullying after 9/11 but later reclaimed his name and faith. https://youtu.be/shlJFq8BV2s Biggest Interviews Covering the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City brought another highlight: interviewing Archbishop Desmond Tutu about forgiveness, an encounter she described as a truly memorable moment despite the initial challenge of getting her story into print. She also had the unique opportunity to spend four days covering the Dalai Lama's visit, with press access to every event. Reporting on leadership transitions within the LDS Church also marked her career. She wrote President Ezra Taft Benson's obituary but never interviewed him as he wasn't publicly visible in his last years. She covered President Howard Hunter's trip to Nauvoo, noting his warmth and the public's desire for physical connection after Benson's absence. The advent of President Gordon B. Hinckley brought a shift; at his first press conference, he stood the entire time and took questions, a departure from past practice. Peggy recalled her own encounter, where President Hinckley showed familiarity with her and her family before she proceeded to ask numerous questions. Notably, she covered President Hinckley's historic 1998 trip to sub-Saharan Africa, the first time an LDS prophet had visited the region. Traveling separately from his group, she managed to secure an interview with him in Zimbabwe, where he famously commented on fighting adulation. This Africa trip stands out as a definitive highlight of her career. Reflecting on her coverage, Peggy connected her most frequent topics to Apostle Boyd K. Packer's 1993 speech identifying feminists, gays, and intellectuals as enemies of the church. She realized these areas – which she terms "pressure points" or "conflicts" – have been the focus of her reporting because journalists cover "planes that crash," not "planes that land on time." This includes covering the September Six excommunications (intellectuals)10, the ongoing evolution of women's issues and gender dynamics (feminism), and the persistently "hot" topic of LGBTQ issues. What about the Women? Peggy also recounted another one of her biggest interviews involving a memorable interaction with President Russell M. Nelson in 2018, where she asked about increasing diversity in church leadership. His initial, somewhat awkward, response focused on knowing her family. He finally answered about international leaders, but he didn't address female leadership, leading her to press him to address the specific question about women: She asked loudly, "What about the women?" She viewed this moment, captured on live TV, as a strange intersection of the personal and professional that ironically benefited her standing with critics from different perspectives. What are your thoughts about Peggy's coverage of the LDS Church specifically? Do you think she is biased one way or the other? Do you listen to Mormon land and/or subscribe to the Salt Lake Tribune? What are some of the biggest interviews we didn't mention? Don't miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved  

It was fun to sit down with Peggy Fletcher Stack about her time at Sunstone and Mark Hofmann. Peggy Fletcher Stack is a senior religion reporter at the Salt Lake Tribune with over three decades of experience. Peggy, also a co-host of the Tribune's weekly "Mormon Land" podcast, discussed her extensive career, offering insights into her work, her background, and some of the pivotal moments she's covered. The conversation quickly delved into the origins of her career, her time at the Sunstone organization, and even her connection to a notorious historical event. https://youtu.be/jI3Y_aw9mek Don't miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Peggy's long tenure in religion reporting at the Tribune spans 34 years. Before joining the paper, she was involved with Sunstone magazine and was the originator of the Sunstone Symposium. Recounting its beginnings, Peggy explained that as young people working on the magazine, they needed material to publish. She conceived the idea of holding a symposium where people could present, providing content for the magazin. Despite skepticism from some who felt they were "just kids," the first symposium in the late 1970s or early 1980s was successful, leading it to become an annual event that has continued for over 40 years. Peggy noted that Sunstone often struggled financially but ultimately persevered. Peggy's early career included a period spent freelancing in Kenya. In 1985-1986, shortly after getting married, she and her husband used their wedding money to move to Kenya to do freelance writing and photography. They chose Kenya because it was English-speaking and stable at the time. While they hoped to sell stories, Peggy admitted they didn't sell many. She described it as more of an adventure that provided a reason to travel and learn. She recently returned to Kenya for a conference with the International Association of Religion Journalists (IARJ), a group she helped found in 2012 and now serves as executive director. Sunstone and Mark Hofmann One of the most compelling parts of the early discussion was Peggy's connection to Sunstone and Mark Hofmann bombings. Hofmann, known for forging historical documents related to Mormonism, had his "findings" discussed extensively at Sunstone. Peggy knew Mark Hofmann personally and conducted the only print interview he ever gave. Looking back at that interview, she realized he was lying throughout, something she didn't recognize at the time. Peggy described Hofmann as socially awkward, noting he wouldn't look her in the eye during the interview, which she initially attributed to social skill issues but now sees as a sign he was fabricating information. Remarkably, the Hofmann bombings happened on the same weekend as Peggy's wedding, October 12, 1985. One of the victims, Steve Christensen, was a close friend, a major Sunstone donor, and a columnist. After the bombings, Peggy received calls from national media and initially suspected a business connection. However, when Mark Hofmann himself was injured in a bombing the next day, it became clear the events were tied to the documents. Peggy and her husband were warned they might be in danger, even checking their wedding presents for bombs and staying away from their apartment. This personal connection means Peggy always knows how long it's been since the bombings by her wedding anniversary. Reflecting on that time, she acknowledged her lack of training as a journalist then and the difficulty of knowing Hofmann was lying. Even LDS Church leaders were fooled. Path to Salt Lake Tribune Peggy's path to the Salt Lake Tribune was somewhat unexpected. After her time in Kenya, she and her husband moved to New York City, where she worked various jobs, including editing at a medical ethics think tank, working for the United Methodist Church communications department,

Joseph Smith's bank went under back in 1837. Those banknotes he printed are now worth much more money! Brent Ashworth shares his Kirtland bank notes from the Kirtland Safety Society signed by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, & Sidney Rigdon! He also shares Lorenzo Snow's prison diary, and we'll also play a Bing Crosby record from the 1930s on an early 1900s phonograph! Check out our conversation... Don't miss our other conversations with Brent: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brent-ashworth transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

How did Brent Ashworth get started in collecting Mormon memorabilia? He started at age 7! We'll discuss his first collections from the prophet Heber J Grant, his 1st edition Book of Mormon, and other documents he has related to Joseph Smith and early Church history! Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/XZQ_2YRDYEQ Don't miss our other conversations with Brent: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brent-ashworth transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

Brent Ashworth has not only Church history artifacts, but Elvis memorabilia, a piece of the Spirit of St Louis, and a 1st Edition Book of Mormon used at School of the Prophets in Kirtland! Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/2XAc8ut6BPQ Don't miss our other conversations with Brent: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brent-ashworth transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

Why is it called the Vinegar Bible? Brent Ashworth has a Bible from 1716, an ad from the Titanic, Ulysses Grant's desk, Heber Grant's chair, and much more! Check out his amazing museum! https://youtu.be/Xq1FzZNDTpE Don't miss our other conversations with Brent: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brent-ashworth transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

Brent Ashworth has one of the largest Americana & Mormon Memorabilia collections in Utah. He discusses artifacts ranging from the Civil War, Elvis, Pearl Harbor, Mark Hofmann forgeries, LDS prophets, Babe Ruth, and much, much more! We're giving a tour of his mini-museum! Check out our conversation.... https://youtu.be/B3XKyQnB1wQ Don't miss our other conversations with Brent: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brent-ashworth transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

In our final conversation we'll talk about some other Mormon Fundamentalism groups and how the race ban & Word of Wisdom are viewed. I'll also note that Cristina got married after this interview and moved to Canada! Her new last name is Gagliano. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/wBE1qyHDzAg Don't miss our other conversations with Cristina: https://gospeltangents.com/people/cristina-rosetti Several Mormon fundamentalist denominations are discussed: Apostolic United Brethren (AUB) FLDS (Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) Centennial Park group Nielsen/Naylor group Thompson group LeBaron groups Kingston group Righteous Branch Confederate Nations of Israel (led by Alex Joseph) The conversation explores the historical splits, leadership transitions, and theological differences between these groups, with a focus on polygamy, priesthood, and racial policies. Transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved

We're going on another polygamy tangent trip! We'll discuss consecration with David Nielsen & I'll go to a polygamist church! Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/iG4rRCSc2ww Don't miss our other conversations with David: https://gospeltangents.com/people/david-nielsen transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

I attended a polygamist Easter service and the Mesa Temple Easter Pageant this week. Check it out! https://youtu.be/kUdtO3PYEAo Don't miss our other conversations with David Nielsen: https://gospeltangents.com/people/david-nielsen transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.    

Many fundamentalist Mormons do not allow for black members. Is Nielsen-Naylor the same? We'll discuss temple theology and discuss these weighty issues. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/VAgAilf0g00 Don't miss our other conversations with David: https://gospeltangents.com/people/david-nielsen transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

Here is a quick announcement about the upcoming Mormon Studies Conference in southern California on April 19, 2025. Dr Matthew Bowman is the dean of Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University and gives more details. If you're in southern California, I hope you'll check it out! https://youtu.be/p15cP_ZjzM0

The FLDS Split with Centennial Park and Nielsen-Naylor on the 1980s. Is there a mission to rescue FLDS & reclaim their Mormon cousins? David Nielsen weighs in. We'll also ask David what the thinks about Cristina Rosetti's book on Joseph Musser and discuss church services. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/MGWFxkq4CEM Don't miss our other conversations with David: https://gospeltangents.com/people/david-nielsen transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permissio

Does Nielsen-Naylor believe in "1 true church" like the LDS Church does? I found David Nielsen's answer fascinating!. I was also surprised to learn women propose marriage to men! Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/vWC8qGfnWxs   Don't miss our other conversations with David: https://gospeltangents.com/people/david-nielsen transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permissio

Since Warren Jeffs took over the FLDS Church, there have been many FLDS splits. Centennial Park split off in 1984, and then Nielsen-Naylor split off in the 1990s. David Nielsen is part of the Nielsen-Naylor Group and we'll find more about FLDS through Nielsen-Naylor history. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/uyOkEsN_sUQ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

We're going on a Polygamy Tangent (Trip) to the Journal of Mormon Polygamy Conference Mar 21-22, 2025 at the University of Utah. I'll give my live reactions and even talk to a polygamy skeptic! Check it out! https://youtu.be/0guJSrqPbBU Don't miss our other conversations about polygamy skeptics: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/polygamy-skeptics/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

Here is a Journal of Mormon Polygamy Recap. I'll also give away a free book "To be a Friend of Christ," the biography of Marion D Hanks, written by his son Richard. Check out our conversation... https://youtube.com/live/S2d9JJrHCxM Don't miss our other conversations about polygamy skeptics: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/polygamy-skeptics/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

Marion D Hanks helped start early Morning Seminary for the LDS Church! His son Richard details Marion's calling of stake presidents, what Rich loved about his father, and the tough end of Marion's life as he dealt with dementia. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/Nl3KMlYwk_8 Don't miss our other conversations with Richard: https://gospeltangents.com/people/richard-hanks/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

Pres David O. McKay blessed Marion Hanks to "speak your mind," even when opposed by other Church leaders. His son Richard details some of these events as Marion tangled with Bruce McConkie, Mark Peterson, Boyd Packer, & others. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/iFnC5JJLJds Don't miss our other conversations with Richard: https://gospeltangents.com/people/richard-hanks/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

Following the 1978 revelation, the LDS Church rescinded the ban preventing blacks from receiving priesthood & temple ordinances. Marion D Hanks was against the ban. Dr Matt Harris utilized Hanks' journals to document how general authorities reacted to the new 1978 revelation. Rich Hanks details more about his father's resistance to the ban and his elation at overturning the ban. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/h6Wwz4e94WM Don't miss our other conversations with Richard: https://gospeltangents.com/people/richard-hanks/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

In the 1950s & 60s, LDS missionaries in England were baptizing children after baseball games without their parents consent,known as baseball baptisms. Marion D Hanks was called by Pres David O McKay to stop the practice. Rich Hanks is the son of Marion and details Marion's approach to the situation. We'll discuss how Marion always put Christ first in decision making, and how he helped start service missions. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/tsJoc-tkSck Don't miss our other conversations with Richard: https://gospeltangents.com/people/richard-hanks/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

Marion Hanks was one of the youngest modern-day GA (general authorities.) At just age 31, he was called to be one of the 7 presidents in the First Council of 70! His son Richard Hanks has written a biography called "To Be a Friend of Christ." We will learn more about Marion's life without a father growing up. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/SWCBWl0zS-w Don't miss our other conversations with Richard: https://gospeltangents.com/people/richard-hanks/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

This is a throwback episode with Brian Hales from 2017. Brian is the author of Joseph Smith's Polygamy, Volumes 1-3, and it's just in time for the Journal of Mormon Polygamy Conference this weekend at the University of Utah. Check out our conversation.... https://youtu.be/WVs0ypGKq5o Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Canadian Polygamy – Should it be Legal? The Interview GT:  Well I'd like to welcome everybody out here to Gospel Tangents Podcast.  I'm really excited to talk to Dr. Brian Hales.  He's the expert on polygamy, or one of the experts I guess. I'm grateful to have you here and thank you for letting me take some of your time today. Brian:  Rick it's really a privilege for me to be here. GT:  Well thanks.  One of the things I'd like to do is to introduce you to my audience a little bit.  Typically I try to talk to a lot of historians who are doctors but you are the first physician, although I have talked to a physician's assistant as well.  Could you tell us a little bit about your background, even in medicine?  I think you're a Utah man.  Is that right? Brian:  I am actually.  I went to Utah State, grew up in Logan and got a medical degree from University of Utah, so I have a little bit of the Ute blood in me as well. GT:  Aggie and Utah, ok. Brian:  Aggies primarily.  Then I had a member of my family who was involved with Mormon fundamentalism and that kind of steered me over into thinking about polygamy.  This is back in 1989 so it's been quite some time ago.  At that point I was in a residency for anesthesia and I do tell people that my books are part of my full anesthesia services.  You've probably heard me say that joke, but I got interested then in Mormon fundamentalism and published a book, co-authored a book in 1991 dealing with that topic but then later a couple of other books. People were asking me about Joseph Smith's polygamy, and I didn't have answers and really I would argue none of the books did.  Todd Compton's book has some things that were very helpful but he had written biographies and it wasn't focused specifically on Joseph, so there was still a lot of room for research and to also try to figure out some of the historical aspects that really were just big question marks I think in a lot of people's minds. So in 2006-2007 I hired Don Bradley who is a dear friend but also a remarkable researcher and he went out and did a lot of research for me, gathered documents, and I told him to get everything:  anti-Mormon or supportive, whatever he could find.  We wanted to get every known document, and it was interesting because after we had been going about six months, it became obvious that if we kept going, eventually we would be able to put either a transcript or at least a reference to every known document on polygamy within the volumes that we were putting together.  So we got kind of excited about that but that was mostly Don Bradley's work.  But his help, I put together three volumes (vol 1, vol 2, vol 3) on polygamy.  There's been a few new things come out.  This was in 2013 that they were published, but not a lot has come out but a few very important things that we can talk about. GT:  Yeah we'll definitely want to talk about that.  Well great!  I'm glad you talked about how you got interested in fundamentalist Mormonism, I guess.  There are different branches.  Could you just kind of briefly give a sketch of the main ones? I guess we've got the FLDS, AUB.  Are there any others?  Could you give a background on Mormon fundamentalism? Brian:  Well do you mind if I just talk about what's going on in Canada right now? GT:  Sure, that would be great. Brian:  I just got back last week, it was a week ago today from Cranbrook, [British Columbia,] Canada.  That is where they are holding a trial right now for two leading polygamists:  Winston Blackmore and J...

The Kingston Group, also known as the Davis County Cooperative Society, is one of the most reclusive Mormon Fundamenalist groups around. I was able to attend a funeral, which was open to the public. Here's what I learned! https://youtu.be/RoX9ldV4NU0 Don't miss our other conversations on Mormon fundamentalism: https://gospeltangents.com/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission  

Robert Messick will discuss the Book of Mormon census he is doing to find out how many and the location of every 1st Edition copy of the Book of Mormon. We're also diving into the Bickertonite Book of Mormon, Red-Letter Edition!  What famous people besides Elvis have a Book of Mormon? Why did Apollo astronaut Buzz Aldrin autograph his Book of Mormon? Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/rArRcqbqc1Q Don't miss our other conversations with Ryan: https://gospeltangents.com/people/robert-messick/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

We know the RLDS Church has its own version of the Book of Mormon, but what other churches have their own? What about the first Gold Book of Mormon and LDS Paperback edition with the golden angel Moroni on the cover, a Reformed Egyptian gold cover, and many other editions? Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/CTFvsUPBdPo Don't miss our other conversations with Ryan: https://gospeltangents.com/people/robert-messick/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

Did you know the LDS Church didn't publish an official version of the Book of Mormon for 90 years?! It took 90 years to publish! Robert Messick knows about all of the LDS and Restoration editions. He's the host of the YouTube channel called "Book of Mormon Editions." We'll dive deep into the publishing history of the Book of Mormon. Check out our conversation.... https://youtu.be/-0axvFxYMAE Don't miss our other conversations with Ryan: https://gospeltangents.com/people/robert-messick/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

The LDS Church recently changed from 3 to 2 hour church. Is 2 hr church destroying community? Dr Ryan Cragun answers. We'll also discuss whether religious or non-religious are more healthy, wealthy, and wise. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/moBMOw1jjdU Don't miss our other conversations with Ryan: https://gospeltangents.com/people/ryan-cragun/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

What pulls people from Church? Dr Ryan Cragun from Univ of Tampa says there are 2 things that lead people to leave religion: Push factors & Pull factors. What pushes people away from Church? Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/A18Umb_xxlg Don't miss our other conversations with Ryan: https://gospeltangents.com/people/ryan-cragun/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

Why does one person leave religion, while another person leaves? Dr Ryan Cragun discusses his own faith crisis and Rick shares why he stays. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/2qQ1dzvyalA Don't miss our other conversations with Ryan: https://gospeltangents.com/people/ryan-cragun/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission 0:00 Ryan's Mission 11:21 Ryan's Deconversion/Betrayal 17:41 Why People Stay or Leave 25:01 Hard Exits transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission