This Could Be Interesting

Iain McGilchrist is one of the most important intellectuals in the world right now (he's also my favorite thinker and philosopher and a personal hero). Part of the impact of his work is due to the thorough and rigorous research supporting his theories (more than 5,000 papers and essays and deep understanding of countless authors and artists and their work from both ancient contexts as well as the modern conversation about these things). The other, perhaps even more impactful reason for his importance is his engagement with what I think is one of the more dire crisis' in the developed world, which is that of "Meaning". Iain's work engages the scientific literature deeply which allows him to make some of the most inspiring and intellectually respectable claims about religious perspective and the "sense of the sacred" of any modern academic thinker. He has made strides and leaps towards the re-marriage of philosophy and science, a divorce that has played a huge part in the fracturing of western culture and the modern person's ability to grapple with a sense of "meaning" in life. Iain is both an intellectual maverick and an extremely personable and friendly person. Getting to talk with him for an hour was an absolute blessing and I'm so incredibly thankful to have had the chance to interact with him and have a conversation about some of the things I deeply feel are most worth talking about at this moment in time. Admittedly getting to talk to Iain was a bit of a geek out moment for me, so I apologize if my excitement shows. Speaking with him felt a bit like getting a chance to meet Kant or Hume or Nietzsche or someone doing historically important philosophical work while they were still alive, and I honestly deeply wonder if these aren't unfair comparisons. At least from my perspective in this moment, Iain is an absolute legend, and he may genuinely become one as time passes.   Some other great talks with Iain: Rebel Wisdom with John Vervaeke and Iain McGilchrist - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdB-B... Sam Harris and Iain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJRx9... Iain McGilchrist: Matter and Consciousness - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7O1Q... Curt Jaimungal and Iain McGilchrist - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-SgO... Iain McGilchrist: Deep Longing - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ysEV... Rebel Wisdom: The Matter with Things - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U99dQ...   Iain McGilchrist https://channelmcgilchrist.com/ https://www.amazon.ca/Master-His-Emis... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCW0L... https://twitter.com/dr_mcgilchrist Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvande... https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

John Vervaeke PhD is an associate professor in Psychology and Cognitive Science whose work focuses on meaning and the science of wisdom. He's an award-winning lecturer at the University of Toronto, with his classes ranging from psychology, cognitive science to Buddhist psychology. His popular youtube lecture series "Awakening From The Meaning Crisis" has been viewed hundreds of thousands of times and has struck a chord with many struggling in the modern day to engage with a sense of "meaning" in life. Awakening from the Meaning Crisis Lecture Series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54l8_ewcOlY&list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ&index=1&t=1s NOTE: Due to my lack of professional camera equipment, I generally don't manage to get the whole conversation on video when I record (the limits of video on a non-video DSLR). Beyond that, the hard drive the video files for conversation were stored on failed shortly before editing and the files needed to be reconstructed with some special software, which caused certain sections to be glitched out and unusable, which is why you'll see a few moments where the video fades away and comes back. If you'd like to help support me in getting a proper camera set up to continue with this project, feel free to reach out at thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast @ gmail.com John Vervaeke https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke/featured http://johnvervaeke.com/ https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/ Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/  

Alex Williamns has hosted over 10 (different) podcasts, so he's a pro. He's also an ex-Mormon, which is something that came up when I had the opportunity to be a guest on one of those podcasts (an episode still to be released). As soon as it came up, the topic threatened to take over our conversation, but I knew it deserved its own conversation another time. I asked Alex after our chat if he'd be willing to come on this project and chat about his experiences in the Mormon church, and he graciously agreed. Ever since someone first explained to me as a kid who the Mormons were and what they (approximately) believed in, my curiosity about what it would be like to grow up living in a "real cult" festered. Friends talked about how Mormons would knock on their doors and want to talk with them and a part of me always thought "Man, I wish they'd knock on my door. I want to know what these guys are all about and have a good long conversation". Well, I finally got my chance, at least sort of. Alex is no longer a believer but was generous enough to tastefully share some stories about his experience growing up in the community of the Latter Day Saints, what they believed, and what ultimately lead him to step away from his faith as an adult. It was deeply meaningful to me to get a chance to compare and contrast our stories as well as spend some time thinking about more meaningful ways to engage with family members and friends in beautiful ways despite parting ways in a religious context.\   Alex Williamns https://mechoradio.com https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-wax-museum/id1397565082   Garrett Vandenberg Website https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ Twitter https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

Dave Griffin is an actor, writer, creative, father, husband, and delegate officer in his local Democratic party. Dave is also the voice of the beloved character "Jimmy Barclay" in the well-known audio drama "Adventures in Odyssey". He started on the show in its first official season around the age of 10 and continued to voice the popular character for many years until ultimately the character was written off the show. Struggling with mental illness growing up, the show became an escape from the everyday lows of life. As that season came to a close Dave was confronted with many deep questions about faith, life, and politics. He'd been hesitant to come out and discuss much of this journey up until this point, but recently felt it was time to share some of this journey with those who are interested with the hope that honesty and vulnerability on the fronts of subjects like mental illness, dealing with the medical system, and experiencing religious and political ill-treatment might help advance our conversations on these fronts. It was great to talk to Dave. In the past we've had a few chances to chat a little bit and have worked together on a few projects, but up until now we haven't had a chance to go quite this deep. I'm thankful Dave took the time to chat. I think you guys will appreciate his story and our conversation. There are some heavy bits, some light fun bits, and some crazy stories. I found it challenging on multiple fronts, but ultimately it gave me a lot of important stuff to think about.   Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF?si=u35WcMD-TVqDLQFT9N2ebA&dl_branch=1  iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/ Dave Griffin https://www.facebook.com/jave1 http://breadfilm.com/film/ http://bunker21.com/ https://www.aiowiki.com/wiki/David_Griffin https://www.javegriffin.com/ Garrett Vandenberg Website https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ Twitter https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/ I also make music. You can check it out here: Instrumental/Meditational Project https://open.spotify.com/track/7E1CfMCcl8NNfpIXriFApt?si=942e22dc144942d0 Covers EP https://open.spotify.com/album/0DZaK7WYBzERovmrNK7lgw?si=91nky4TITiawgYtD2mf8Yw&dl_branch=1    

Caleb Weidman is a Media wiz, and has been creating quality content for Spiritual communities for the past decade. He's the president of Blackbar Media, a youtube channel focused on exploring how Christianity can be complemented and augmented by technology and media, and how people working within positions related to media production can better engage with their faith. I've known Caleb for a very long time now, and we've worked together professionally on many different projects including short films and various musical productions. Caleb is also an incredibly talented graphic designer and has produced album covers and book covers for me and my peers on multiple occasions. I wanted to talk to Caleb about what his project is about, and dive deep into what it would mean for a spiritual community to be entirely online-based, and whether or not the online environment was capable of hosting the level of engagement necessary for meaningful spiritual engagement with a community. Caleb and I aren't on exactly the same page concerning this topic, but that's exactly why I thought it would be meaningful and beneficial to have a conversation. Whether you're part of a spiritual community or not, I think you'll find this discussion both interesting and relevant to your life and our greater cultural problem of processing what exactly the creation of the internet entails for us socially, spiritually, personally, and culturally. Also, if you enjoy this conversation and would like to hear more of Caleb, please be sure to check out his youtube channel and podcast (linked below). If you especially appreciated our dynamic, make sure you check out the new episode releasing very soon where Caleb invited me on to join in for a conversation about Christian Deconstruction and how to engage with it meaningfully. Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/ Caleb Weidman / BlackBar Media Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTwQJMZl2HKGWntO-sDlKsg Discord - http://discord.blk.bar Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/blkbar Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/5nQZluqztP1FvBv19hhZ5F?si=5bluELXkRQmOO06Z3xx7Pg&nd=1 Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Blackbar-100159521451113/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/blk.bar/ Twitter - https://twitter.com/cjweidman?lang=en Garrett Vandenberg Website https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ Twitter https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

Pre-order Nadje's new album: https://nadjenoordhuis.bandcamp.com/album/gullfoss Check out my favorite of Nadje's past work (Ten Sails): Bandcamp - https://music.lukehoward.com/album/ten-sails Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/album/7k6LMeVKzWrL9XHzNTPkXu Nadje Noordhuis is my favorite trumpet player, and is the primary reason I worked up enough determination to (try to) learn the trumpet. Yeah, that bit of trumpet in the intro is me, heh. She's from Brooklyn, though she grew up in and moved from Australia. She is a wonderful teacher and performer, and an wonderful person to chat with. I first met her at a very small and intimate studio performance she did with my favorite pianist (Luke Howard). To this day, that's one of my absolute favorite musical experiences ever. Nadje has a very interesting and inspiring story, as well. She had to struggle to make her way into a male-dominated scene where it was thought that "a woman couldn't handle the position of audio engineer" and being pigeonholed into "female only" jazz bands. She's since made some incredible contributions to music both through her composition/performing and her teaching. Check out "Ten Sails" by Nadje Noordhuis and Luke Howard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QzMcUb3bOM&list=PLHJ8mCjIjmVPfl8wz7RvtyMLW6Ieo0RGv Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/ Who's in this episode? Nadje Noordhuis https://www.nadjenoordhuis.com/ https://www.instagram.com/nadjenoordhuis/?hl=en https://open.spotify.com/artist/2gMxxfDcVbNcJH5VG2FCmY?autoplay=true

Markus grew up in a fundamentalist Christian home but later upon examining his religion rejected it in general and began to think more deeply about his beliefs and his philosophy. In this conversation Markus shares a bit of his story and how he ultimately ended up practicing and teaching Yoga and meditation from a primarily secular framework. I challenge Markus on this perspective towards Yoga and we dig deep into what it means to "listen to your body" and have a relationship with the "unknown". Markus Schnieder runs the local hot yoga studio in my hometown and is one of the friendliest and most interesting people I know. The first time we chatted was at the studio after a session and I asked him about one of the poses I was struggling with. His response was extremely detailed about the various physiological and psychological effects of the pose and how it should be approached. I was immediately struck by his gentle demeanor and intelligence. The next time we saw Markus at the studio he remembered both mine and my wife's names. Markus is a great guy, and every time I chat with him I learn something. Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/   Who's in this episode? Markus Schneider https://modoyoga.com/brantford/teacher/extra-test/ https://www.instagram.com/themarkuslife/?hl=en Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/ I also make music. You can check it out here: Instrumental/Meditational Project https://open.spotify.com/track/7E1CfMCcl8NNfpIXriFApt?si=942e22dc144942d0 Covers EP https://open.spotify.com/album/0DZaK7WYBzERovmrNK7lgw?si=91nky4TITiawgYtD2mf8Yw&dl_branch=1  

Ian Juby is a prolific hobbyist whose interests range from driving trains to amateur archeology to UFO theorizing to creation science. Ian's name has come up frequently in my house over the past several years whenever the topic of "evolution" was brought up. Many/most evangelical Christians (especially those of the generation before mine) hold very tightly to a model of creation and existence that is consistent with a literal interpretation of Genesis--that is, 6 day creation. Other key Biblical stories are considered deeply historical as well, such as the idea of a universal flood (Noah's Ark) or the Israelite crossing of the Red Sea. While most Christian Evangelicals take the literal historicity of these stories at face value, Ian has spent the last 15 years of his life actively teaching and researching more technical arguments concerning the age of the earth, the fossil record, and other key components to unpacking this theory of origins scientifically. Growing up I noticed a common pattern of dismissal of this conversation from those on either side. Most practicing Christians I knew brushed off evolution and claims about an old earth as simple propaganda by those seeking to destroy the church, whereas those outside of the church that I talked to about these concepts brushed off those who believed them as simpletons who didn't know anything about science. When Ian agreed to chat with me for this project, I was excited. Ian is a pretty smart guy, and has bothered to spend a good chunk of his time trying to deeply get to know the science behind this conversation. I on the other hand find the evolutionary model compelling, yet still find the Christian faith meaningful and worth engaging with. I was hoping that between the two of us we might be able to manage having the conversation that I hadn't seen happen very well growing up and attempt to engage and discuss these two positions honestly and in good faith without premature dismissal. It was a difficult task, and I don't know if we managed it perfectly, but I'm excited about the forward motion of this conversation in my home community, and I'm hoping this conversation can be a small contribution to this greater conversation within Evangelical Christiandom.

"Both Christians and atheists incorrectly accept the narrative that believers must reject evolution. I want to change this paradigm. I want to help Christians question their assumptions about this topic and broaden their perspective." - April M. Cordero April Maskiewicz Cordero PhD is a professor of biology at Christian university (Point Loma Nazarene) in San Diego and has taken on the challenging task of teaching evolution and ecology to Christian college undergraduates. She's co-authored several books and delivered several notable lectures and talks at TED and Biologos. I was connected with April by a mutual friend and I was immediately struck by her energy and charisma. April is incredibly fun to listen to and talk to and is very compassionate. If anyone is up to the task of kindly and carefully unpacking the tension surrounding the Creation/Evolution debate in evangelical circles, it's her. I was so honoured to get to have the opportunity to chat with her for a bit about that tension specifically, as well as her story of leaving and coming back to faith in a time of heavy pressure to accept either atheistic evolution or Christian creationism. April was on the cutting edge of those unwilling to accept this dichotomy in the '90s and 2000s and has helped push the Evangelical movement forward on this issue in a valuable way. I hope you enjoy our conversation.

I've known Brayden since I was a kid. Like many old friendships, Facebook allowed us to reconnect in some interesting ways later in life when we otherwise might not have crossed paths. I noticed Brayden had been posting a lot about various conspiracy theories and generally pushing back against the standard narrative and thought it would be interesting to meet up and chat again about just what a conspiracy theory actually entails, and whether or not we can figure out a healthy way of engaging with that type of thinking without going overboard.

Conversation with John Vervaeke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3AxPCwoVxA Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s   Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/ John Vervaeke https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke/featured http://johnvervaeke.com/ https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/   Garrett Vandenberg (host/me) https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/  

John Vervaeke PhD is a Cognitive Scientist and Cognitive Psychotherapist whose work focuses on meaning and the science of wisdom. He's an award-winning lecturer at the University of Toronto, with his classes ranging from psychology, cognitive science to Buddhist psychology.   I discovered John and his work through my friend Connor during a time when we were both doing a lot of soul-searching and struggling with the ever-encroaching cloud of nihilism that is modern-day media. When we discovered John's work as well as the work of others in his "corner of the internet", our whole relationship to meaning, story, religion, and life changed.   When John agreed to speak with me, I was ecstatic at the chance to finally throw some of the many ideas that had bubbled up inside me during his lectures at him. While there were many more topics I'd originally hoped to hit on, I decided it would be best for our first conversation to try to zero in on the thesis of this whole project and discuss the dynamic of connection with people, things, and life in the age of the internet.   If you've been watching the channel for a bit you'll probably have picked up on my frustration with the atmosphere of modern media. I find social media and media in general acting as an attention-sucking soul-harvesting machine, but one that seems to be too integrated into our culture to simply unplug from and maintain the expected level of engagement with the world and culture around me. It feels like a sort of "damned if I do, damned if I don't" problem to me sometimes, and I often have trouble digging myself out of that thought cycle.   John was extremely gracious in his listening to my complaining about existence, which I was deeply thankful for. While I appreciate that I can be a bit of a downer, I find that I am simply not satisfied with an answer to difficult questions unless the question has had an appropriate amount of time on the mic to make its case. I really appreciated John patience, and ultimately this ended up feeling more like a therapy session than a conversation at times (which is bound to happen sometimes when talking to a psychotherapist).   I had really hoped to talk to John a bit more about Buddhism, Christianity, and Neo-platonism and the common threads between those traditions as well, but we ended up not having enough time to circle around to these topics. Fortunately, we've scheduled a follow up to this conversation, which will be out in several weeks, so be sure to subscribe and keep and eye out for that.   Key Terms: Perennial -- Lasting or existing for a long or apparently infinite time; enduring or continually recurring Relevance Realization -- Becoming aware of the most meaningful way to participate or engage with one's environment Affording/Affordance -- the quality or property of an object that defines its possible uses or makes clear how it can or should be used   Works Mentioned: The Science of Wisdom in a Polarized World: Knowns and Unknowns - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1047840X.2020.1750917?needAccess=true (Mentioned at 53:00) Arthur Aron: The Experimental Generation of Interpersonal Closeness: A Procedure and Some Preliminary Findings - https://psychodramaaustralia.edu.au/sites/default/files/falling_in_love-aron.pdf (Mentioned at 57:30)   Paul Tyson - Returning to Reality: Christian Platonism for Our Times - https://www.amazon.ca/Returning-Reality-Christian-Platonism-Times/dp/1610979249   Videos: 1:00:50 My Conversation with J.P. video Concerning Catholicism and the Transcendent - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBvNK58WwQM&t=3615s 1:09:05 John Vervaeke's "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" Series - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54l8_ewcOlY&list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/ John Vervaeke https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke/featured http://johnvervaeke.com/ https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/ Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/   

Michael Wiseman is the host of "The Bible Says What?"-- a podcast a youtube channel exploring the limits of evangelical theology and biblical theory from an atheist perspective. He's also the author of a book of the same name, which you can find online here - https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Says-What-Michael-Wiseman-ebook/dp/B08Y7BLM3H/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= I came into contact with Mike earlier this year when he reached out to me, and we've had several engaging conversations comparing notes on our journeys with evangelicalism since then. He and I have obviously landed on very different pages, but he's been a very fun person to talk to and get to know over the past few months. I hope you enjoy getting to know Mike a bit, and if you enjoy our interaction, be sure to check out the other conversations we've had on his channel: Episode 102: Fight or Flight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5dFsh6U_ic&t=2002s Episode 103: Looking for the Good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2IEs3a2MoY&t=1163s We recently had another conversation on his channel, which will be coming out soon, so keep an eye out.   Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/   Michael Wiseman https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7FrIcfAfHHRr9ZkKSR11BQ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bible-says-what/id1383942979 https://www.instagram.com/bswthepodcast/?hl=en https://www.facebook.com/BSWthepodcast/ https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Says-What-Michael-Wiseman/dp/1839191066   Garrett Vandenberg (Me) https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/ My Music Instrumental/Meditational Project https://open.spotify.com/track/7E1CfMCcl8NNfpIXriFApt?si=942e22dc144942d0 Covers EP https://open.spotify.com/album/0DZaK7WYBzERovmrNK7lgw?si=91nky4TITiawgYtD2mf8Yw&dl_branch=1  

Evan and I sit down to unpack some of the trickier parts of my most recent conversation with J.P. Marceau.

J.P. and I unpack his latest article concerning the overlap between Christianity, Buddhism, and various other religious traditions on their central "trinity" like concepts. While I recommend reading the article, it's not necessary to read first (in fact I'd recommend reading it after watching) as this conversation is intended primarily to help introduce the ideas he discusses in the article to general audiences. Unfortunately, some of the data for this conversation was corrupted and had to be repaired. As a result, a section in the middle has reduced audio quality. Sorry for that! J.P.'s article: https://thesymbolicworld.com/articles/evil-enlightenment-and-easter/ David Bentley Hart's book - https://www.audible.ca/pd/The-Doors-of-the-Sea-Where-Was-God-in-the-Tsunami-Audiobook/B07KBFBT5S?qid=1623361348&sr=1-1&ref=a_search_c3_lProduct_1_1&pf_rd_p=b278ed0a-c3b2-4491-808c-7cb2190a487c&pf_rd_r=RZBK91XMA5RDGHC4TMP9 Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/ JP Marceau https://twitter.com/jeanphi76459673?lang=en https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZzlvx0HHYiPOJTEOU399WA https://thesymbolicworld.com/author/jp_marceau16/ Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

Jean-François Martel has been working with various Canadian producers as a screenwriter and director for the past ten years. He's worked on numerous documentaries that have aired on most of Canada's major broadcasters, as well as writing and directing a number of award winning dramatic short films including "Cicada,". He's also the author of the fantastic short book/manifesto/artistic call to action "RECLAIMING ART IN THE AGE OF ARTIFICE" which was published in 2015. J.F. co-hosts a weekly philosophy of art podcast called "Weird Studies". I discovered J.F. and his work earlier this year via another podcast and was immediately drawn in by his interesting and uncommonly well-thought-out positions on art and symbolism. After reading his book I was so enthralled I couldn't wait to get to chat with him about what I think is one of the most pressing issues we're facing today in the developed world: how we approach both the consumption and creation of art, stories, and media. Get J.F.'s book here https://www.amazon.ca/Reclaiming-Art-Age-Artifice-Treatise/dp/1583945784#:~:text=Reclaiming%20Art%20in%20the%20Age%20of%20Artifice%20places%20art%20alongside,dancers%2C%20filmmakers%2C%20and%20poets.   JF Martel https://twitter.com/JF_Martel https://www.weirdstudies.com/ http://www.reclaimingart.com/   Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

"Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them." - Matthew 13:12 What a ruthless principle. Pareto Distribution (or "The Matthew Principle) can be found in almost any distributive dataset. 20% of people have 80% of the money in (almost all) economic systems. 20% of people have 80% of the power in (almost all) political systems. 20% of any language gets used 80% of the time in (all) languages. It's especially frustrating thinking about the Matthew Principle playing out beyond the 80/20 rule to the point where it seems like one person has all of the power and everyone else has none. It feels like this is what my relationship to politics looks like, and my relationship to the music industry, and to the world in general. I feel powerless. When I think about this stuff it makes me feel extremely frustrated, and when I think about things and they make me frustrated, I take that as a sign that it's time to have a conversation with a trusted friend, so sat down with two people I trust (Connor and Evan) to try to figure out if my frustration is justified and what a meaningful response might be to that frustration. Surprisingly, we actually made a lot more progress unpacking this topic than I was expecting to (at least, I personally felt like I'd made progress in my relationship to the problem), though there's a ton more to keep thinking about. Let me know what you think of where we landed.  Connor Howard https://www.instagram.com/connorjhoward/​ Evan Vandenberg https://www.instagram.com/evanskates/ Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

Sam Glenn https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv45xgouMHfxSFyi3zavCqA

Taylor Ealand runs a conservative news commentary show called "Contrarix". Taylor reached out to me to chat a little bit ago, and we had a great conversation on his show about religion and politics. We had such a good time we decided to follow it up for This Could Be Interesting. We were interested in trying to unpack a little bit of the conundrum of evaluating values in the modern sphere. Why do we value things, and how can we back up or defend those values? Can we even? Are there such things as "objective values". There were a few errors in how the file got saved, but I did my best to reconstruct the damaged parts. Garrett Vandenberg (host) https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenberg https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ Taylor Ealand https://twitter.com/contrarix https://www.youtube.com/user/Taylorntaylorchannel/featured

Cayce Jamil is an RA and Ph.D. student at UNC Charlotte. While I spent some time in Charlotte growing up, I actually came into contact with Cayce via a conversation thread on Reddit on one of the previous videos for this project. His responses were thoughtful and interesting but definitely strayed away from my own views. His views also revolved around a political thinker I hadn't heard of "Pierre-Joseph Proudhon", and I was interested to hear more. I asked if he'd be interested in having a longer conversation on the podcast and he graciously agreed.

Kevin McCreary is a YouTuber, podcaster, comedian, and all-around creative guy. I've known Kevin for a very long time. He was one of the very first connections I made with someone originally through the internet that ended up sticking around to be part of my life. Kevin and I have done various creative projects together here and there for the past 10 years. Kevin has always been a great friend as well as an interesting conversation partner. Our views clash on certain issues, but Kevin is such a genuinely funny and fun guy, it's impossible to have even a serious conversation about something we disagree about without spending a majority of the time laughing.

I recently got to have a conversation with Daniel "The Wakeful" Townhead. Daniel wrote an article recently that really intrigued me, so I reached out to him to see if he'd be willing to talk about it! The article is about philosopher Rene Girard's interpretation of the ancient myths and archetypal patterns of the stories man has held onto since before history. Girard thought there was something connecting these stories and it hinged around two (complicated?) concepts: "Mimesis", and "The Scapegoat". Fundamentally, Girard thought all these stories pointed to a strategy societies all over the world had discovered for how to get along despite their differences, and once they did, codified through ritual and myth. Figuring out how to get along despite differences is exactly what this project is all about, so I knew we needed to have a conversation and unpack this guy's ideas to see how they apply to our current world.

"As infants, we learn to perceive simple objects, and eventually people. As children, we learn to perceive increasingly complex emotions in people. Later, we begin to discern narratives and moral patterns. As we grow older, we learn to perceive social and historical patterns. As Christians, we strive to perceive the Pattern of all patterns, i.e., God." - JP Marceau, "Perception is Symbolic" Jean-Philippe (JP) Marceau is a self-described "part-time philosopher" (because who pays enough to let any of us do it full time?). After graduating with honours in 2015 from McGill University studying math and computer science, he pivoted from math to philosophy. In 2016 he began a master's degree in philosophy at Laval University. In recent year's he's become an active contributor to Jonathan Pageau's "The Symbolic World" website and youtube channel. I became aware of JP through Jonathan Pageau, Paul Vanderklay, and John Vervake who have all had conversations with him in the past. After listening to Jordan Peterson's latest conversation with Pageau as well as JP and John Vervake's discussion on miracles, I had some stuff I was looking for a thinking partner to process. I reached out to JP and he graciously agreed to have a conversation with me.

Andrew Gaskin is one of the most intuitive and creative people I know. He's extremely talented and way too humble. Every time I talk to him I'm amazed at the vast connections he makes and the interesting insights he comes up with. He's also an extremely talented vocalist and lyricist and has been a part of several musical projects, including a few we worked on together. Not too long ago Andrew made the strange claim to me that "Evil doesn't exist". We had a few shorter chats about his idea, but I thought a discussion of evil as a concept might be an interesting enough topic to deserve a long-form conversation.

Dr. Peter Farrugia received his D. Phil. from Oxford in 1991 with a thesis on French Anti-War Thought Contrasted to Its British Counterpart. He's taught at various universities but in 1999 he started teaching at Laurier Brantford as one of the founding faculty members. I was introduced to Peter by Ken Paradis. He and Peter are good friends, and connected partly due to Ken's unique openness and interest in religion and Peter's staunch Christianity in a predominantly non-religious academic system. Peter had so many interesting things to share with me, from the premises of WWI&II and how they related to the current political moment to meaningful insights on how he balances his faith and work life.

Alex Pallas is an atheist/ex-evangelical from Australia. I met Alex through one of Paul Vanderklay's Q&A videos in February when he asked some thoughtful questions about the Christian stories. I was interested to pick his brain further, so I reached out to him and he graciously agreed to have a conversation with me. While coming to definitively different answers to the question "do you believe in God", Alex and I actually had a lot in common in our views. In the areas we differ, I really enjoyed hearing from him and what he had to say was genuinely interesting to me. --- Thanks again Alex for hanging out!

Paul Vanderklay is the pastor of Living Stones Christian Reformed Church in Sacramento California. While his position includes teaching a group of people in person, Paul teaches a much larger pool of people on a weekly basis via his youtube channel with a weekly series called "Rough Draft for Sunday" where he gives a first pass at delivering content he's putting together for a sermon the following Sunday. His channel has amassed a fairly large following, partly due to his engagement and commentary on the ideas of the thinkers in the IDW and Meaning Crisis movements, such as Jordan Peterson, John Vervake, Jonathan Pageau, and the Weinstein brothers.

Devon Peacock is a very interesting person to me. I first met him when we were both in our early teens while I was traveling through Eastern Canada with my family. We reconnected recently after Facebook decided to start including his quips, memes, and political hot takes in my feed. I was especially interested to chat with him about Orthodox Christianity, as when we met we were both part of the Evangelical community and when we reconnected recently he mentioned his departure to the Orthodox Christian tradition. I had a great time getting to hear more about his perspective on things, and I hope you enjoy hearing from him too.

Christopher Rosevear is a Tyndale University and Seminary Graduate and has served in several churches in various positions including Associate Pastor of Youth and Young Adults at Uxbridge Baptist Church. He's an articulate communicator and a very intelligent and thoughtful guy. He's challenged me and my worldview at various stages in life, and has always been willing to have deep and/or difficult conversations with me. Sometimes talking to someone as articulate as Christopher can be intimidating, and admittedly, that's something I've struggled with in our relationship at times. I have the sense, though, that people and situations that intimidate me often do so because they reveal places I need to grow. Taking some time to reconnect with Christopher was a great opportunity for some of that growth. It was also a genuinely fun and engaging back and forth on some ideas I was really happy to get to unpack with him.

Lloyd Vandenberg is my dad. He's 100% Dutch by blood but was born in Canada. He grew up in the Dutch Reformed church and became part of the Charismatic Evangelical tradition as a young adult. He and my mom have been touring with the rest of the family around the United States and Canada under the name "New Generation Ministry" for the past 30 years performing Christian "worship music" as well as counseling couples and sharing my dad's story of freedom from addiction. The last two years have been pretty wild for us as a family, and my dad has had to process a lot of change in his life. My dad and I have had a lot of interesting conversations about the changes both of our lives have been going through, but some of the most interesting chats we continue to have are about faith. I'm really happy to get to share this conversation with you, as this type of conversation is exactly the kind of conversation I'm attempting to work on getting better at with this channel. It's also one of my favorite conversations we've recorded so far. I hope you enjoy it.

After the last conversation with Jared Evan and I had a lot of thoughts we still wanted to unpack, so we sat down to do our first ".5". I'm not sure if this is a format that's going to stick or not, but we'll see. The obvious flaw with doing this sort of thing is that in discussing a guest's ideas (or trying to rebut their ideas) they don't have a chance to respond or correct us if we're missing something important. The cost is dwarfed by the benefit, though, I think, because it seems to be the case that almost every time we bring in a guest with a time limit, we end up scraping the surface of some really interesting ideas but end up running out of time before we can give those ideas their due. Rather than risk leaving untapped gold, I think taking a little extra time to chat after an especially good conversation is worth it even if our guests miss out on the fun. On the other hand, Jared, if you want to come back and push back on this point, I'd be more than happy to sit down for another conversation. Jared's New Book - https://www.jaredbyas.com/book/​ An Article Jared wrote about talking to people you disagree with: https://peteenns.com/talking-to-peopl...

Jared Byas is a self-proclaimed "serial question-asker and ideas explorer". He's also the co-host of the popular podcast "The Bible for Normal People" along with Pete Enns and is the co-author of the book "Genesis for Normal People" with Pete too. He also just wrote a new book called "Love Matters More". Jared is a really interesting guy, and I'm so thankful he took the time to ask some questions and explore some ideas with me. Jared's New Book - https://www.jaredbyas.com/book/​ An Article Jared wrote about talking to people you disagree with: https://peteenns.com/talking-to-peopl...

Ken Paradis is an Associate Professor at Wilfred Laurier University in Brantford Ontario. Before coming to Laurier, Ken spent time working at Palcky University in Olomouc, Czechoslovakia, as well as at McMaster, SUNY Buffalo, and Dalhousie. While teaching at Laurier Brantford Ken has taught or administered in several programs including English, Contemporary Studies, and Cultural Analysis and Social Theory (CAST). Ken has a particularly interesting perspective to me regarding the Christian faith as he's taken a bit of a deep dive into understanding Christian pop culture. A big part of his study of Christianity focuses on the history of Evangelical Christianity, especially as it relates to and expresses North American working-class cultural identity. Ken is a fantastic speaker and listener and has a ton of interesting things to say. If you're studying at Laurier and have any elective credits next semester, maybe join me in taking his class on Moby Dick. (Even if you're not a Laurier student, you can always sign up to "audit" the class like me and still enjoy the class).

Tyler (B.Mus., B.Ed., OCT, A. Piano Perf.) is an Evangelical to Catholic convert. He works as a freelance pianist/vocalist, educator, and producer from Oakville, Ontario. His works have been performed on radio and television across North America, and his music workshops have inspired music students and teachers across Canada. He also acted and performed in the Christian children's television show "God Rocks!". Tyler's family have been long-time family friends, but since a young age I always identified with him in a certain way that I never totally unpacked. I saw him as an older version of myself, and in some ways, he is an older version of the trajectory my life could have gone. We've both grown up and developed our own views on things moreso now, but reconnecting with him and learning about his experience and journey with Catholicism was really interesting to me.

Ken Paradis is an Associate Professor at Wilfred Laurier University in Brantford Ontario. Before coming to Laurier, Ken spent time working at Palcky University in Olomouc, Czechoslovakia, as well as at McMaster, SUNY Buffalo, and Dalhousie. While teaching at Laurier Brantford Ken has taught or administered in several programs including English, Contemporary Studies, and Cultural Analysis and Social Theory (CAST). Ken has a particularly interesting perspective to me regarding the Christian faith as he's taken a bit of a deep dive into understanding Christian pop culture. A big part of his study of Christianity focuses on the history of Evangelical Christianity, especially as it relates to and expresses North American working-class cultural identity. Ken is a fantastic speaker and listener and has a ton of interesting things to say. If you're studying at Laurier and have any elective credits next semester, maybe join me in taking his class on Moby Dick. (Even if you're not a Laurier student, you can always sign up to "audit" the class like me and still enjoy the class).

Hey, I just started a podcast!   The concept of the show is based around the medium of the "long-form conversation". It's a medium that allows people to unpack complicated and positions on things in an appropriately long format that allows for some nuance and genuine humanity. I've been watching people in my community gradually sort of "drift apart" in certain ways, especially in their ability to have conversations about issues they don't see eye to eye on. While I found this increasingly concerning pointing at other people, it hit me in a big way when I began to see that tension about certain issues and the charged format we'd be handed for discussing them was starting to break apart the fabric of my own family. Certain family members won't talk to each other anymore. I can't talk to my wife about certain things. What's going on?   Well, I'd been wanting to start a podcast for a bit anyway, and this problem finally gave me a big enough problem to work on. I had the sense that if things are going to get any better for me and my community regarding this issue, they're only going to get better if we spend some time working on relating to each other better, so I started this show as an opportunity to spend some time practicing doing that. In this episode, I sit down with Ken Paradis, who's interesting for a couple of reasons. One is that I think he may be one of the few academics left that is genuinely willing and interested in engaging with people from a variety of political and religious perspectives about current issues. Another reason is that he's my neighbour--or he used to be. I explain it in the episode.   Anyway, if you're interested in hearing me struggle to relate to people and give wrestling with some different perspectives on things an honest try, feel free to subscribe and come along for the ride. I may not succeed, but hey, this could be interesting.   Andrew Kalmar https://www.instagram.com/kalmarotor/​​ Connor Howard https://www.instagram.com/connorjhowa...​ Evan Vandenberg https://www.instagram.com/evanskates/...​ Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvande...​ https://www.instagram.com/garrettvand...​ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​